To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/13/96 08:44:48 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #366


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 13 November 1996    Volume 01 :
Number 366


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 07:51:47 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 4-4-2 Question

>
> << Earlier model 4-4-2s had among other features a heavy-duty frame (I
>  believe the convertible frame). Did this hold true for '72 as well?
It >  almost sounds like it might not from what I've read. Just
curious... >> > > Only convertible Olds came with a box frame unlike
its cousin the > Buick GS.  Buick GS's came with box frames until 72.
442's and > W-30's came with a standard c channel frame.  The Olds did
have > an advantage because 442's and W-30s with FE2 suspensions > got
the extra frame stiffners in the rear of the car. > > W MACHINES

I have a 1970 GS 455 w/o a convertible boxed frame.  I did own a 1971 GS
Stage 1 w/o a boxed frame & a 1972 GS 350 w/o a boxed frame.  My 1970
Skylark Custom convertible  & a 1968 Skylark Custom convertible are the
only Buicks that I have owned w/a boxed frame.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:58:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

Yeah, I have a few...(mostly f*rd related)

Rustang
Thunderturd
F*cker Only Runs Downhill(parents had a '82 Rustang that lived up to
this)
For Old Retarded Drivers(not the most PC saying)
Fix Or Repair Daily(been there, done that)
Found On Road Dead
Backwards:  Driver Returns On Foot
Poor Old Nitwit Thinks Its A Chevy
Cheap Heap Every Valve Rattles Oil Leaks Every Time
Oldsmobubble
Break My Wallet
Backwards:  Wanted Mercedes Benz
For all the 5.0 Rustang Lovers I affectionately call your car a 5 Point
Slow (unfortunately most are not)
Screaming Chickens (TAs)
My father had a '61 Chevy Belair that many people referred to it as the
Batmobile.

I am sure there are more that I can't remember.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 02:18:56 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 4-4-2 Question

In a message dated 96-11-13 01:07:58 EST, you write:

<<  have a 1970 GS 455 w/o a convertible boxed frame.  I did own a 1971
GS
 Stage 1 w/o a boxed frame & a 1972 GS 350 w/o a boxed frame.  My 1970
 Skylark Custom convertible  & a 1968 Skylark Custom convertible are the
 only Buicks that I have owned w/a boxed frame.

 Bill Culp
 Decatur, Alabama >>

Hi Bill, My buddy owns two 70 GS stage 1 cars and one 69 stage one car
and all three have the boxed frame.  Maybe it is exclusive to stage one
cars

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 02:21:03 -0400
Subject: nicknames

for everyone looking to for car acronyms check out this link
http://www.brandonu.ca/~ennsnr/Tags/CAR_hype.html

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 02:21:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?(2)

In a message dated 96-11-13 00:53:00 EST, you write:

<< << >Someone posted a question about the Cutlass being nicknamed
gutless.
  >I've heard a number of different ones over the years.  A few are:
  >Charger - chargeless
  >Valiant - valium
  >Vega - vagrant
  >LeMans - lemons
  >Most of these were from the people that owned the cars...
  >BTW, I heard gutless back in the late 60s.
  >Mustang - disgustang
  >Comet - vomit
  >Barracuda - bananacuda (from the old tv commercial)>>
   Mustang- Rustang
   Oldsmobile-slowmobile
   Chevelle-sh*tvelle
   Buick-Buwreck
   Pontiac-Pontidog
   Thunderbird-Thunderchicken
   Jeep-Heap
   How about initials like AMC- Almost a car,
   SAAB-Sorry A** automobile basicly
   Mopar- Mostly old parts and rust / Must own pickup and rope
   Ford-Find on road dead, Fix or repair daily, Fudge on race day
   Chevrolet-shove it or lay it >>
  forgot about Firebird-Fireturd
  BMW-Built Mostly for Wimps


------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 02:10:42 -0400
Subject: OK, I'm overwhelmed!  Unsubscribe

Wow, all these posts come to my workstation instead of my net site.
I have SO MANY to get off my e-mail after 5 each day and I cannot
do that.  bye, dj

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:04:54 -0400
Subject: Thanks for the ~non Olds~ post!!!

MOPAR: Must own pickup and rope

This one was new to me, and it cracked me up well.  AND on a night when
I needed it, too!!!  Thanks for the ~non~ Olds post, some of us really
appreciate ~some~ of these every so often!

Oh, and I didn't notice my *favorites*
Ford:  F**K, Our Ride Died!
Fiat:  Fix It Again, Tony
       Feeble Italian Attempt (at) Transportation
Saab:  Send Another Auto Back

     Just a few...  Later :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:04:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 83 Olds Calais w/ 403

>If you have a V-6 or a Ch*vy V-8, then you need the mounts and
accessories >from a 307 or 260 equipped car. >


~and~ tranny, if it's a *hevy car :(

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:11:41 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

I had to work on the heater fan on my 72 Cutlass. IT WAS A BEAR !!!!!!
I found the easiest way is to remove the fender. A person can get to the
motor by removing the plastic inner fender well, which is less time
consuming, but there isn't much room to work with. Remember to check
your grounds, as that was the problem with mine. A faulty ground made it
appear that the motor was non- functional. Good Luck !!!!!

Katana72          It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!
        Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:16:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

I have been told by my father, an Airframe and powerplant mechanic for
Northwest Airlines, and by Ray Hauser, an Oldsmobile Mechanic for over
30 years, DON"T RUN AVGAS straight !!!!  It can burn  holes in your
pistons. They say to mix it with premium gas and my experience with
AVGAS is that it is normally a low lead fuel, so a lead additive might
be in line. I guess the whole thing is to be a little cautious when
using flight power performance.


Katana72         It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!      Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 08:23:00 -0400
Subject: Re: members registry

Hello Fernando, et al.

There are 2 ways to edit your registry entry.  Either e-mail me with the
 changes (there is a link to mail me at the bottom of the registry), or
 fill out the form again.  I'm glad you brought that up, as I'm sure
others were wondering the same thing.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Olsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce

On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Fernando Proietto wrote:

> Hi Clayton,
> 	I like what I see so far. This registry was a real good idea. Just a
> few questions. If I want to edit my entry, what do I do? I have a
small > suggestion that may helps us all read the registry in a more
helpfull > way, given that fact that many of us are always asked, "what
type/year > is your car?", I think it would be a good idea to catalogue
the registry > by year and type along with location. It would be very
helpful if we > need to contact a commonly selected group of olds owners
if the need > arises. What do you think? > > Fernando > '72 442 > >

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 08:37:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

and don't forget
Camaro - cramarow - cr*parow
Chevrolet - shovealot
Oldsmobile (had to include it sorry) - oldslowmobile
Monte Carlo - monte cr*pload
"    "  SS - monte cr*pload super sh*t
Ford - fraud
Mustang - muscleless thing
Does the "firechicken" refer to the newer Firebirds?
How about the  "plastic pig" what was this'n
Chevette - shoveit
*and always remember that Nova is spanish for "NO GO"*

Please, no flames, I mean no offense to anybody, this whole message
should be marked with a big :-)

Oh and Chevy people, I mean no offense to Chevy's, I like Chevy's as
well as British Cars, and Dodges, and oh well, maybe we should draw the
line at Fords-- though I own one :-0

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce




On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:

> Someone posted a question about the Cutlass being nicknamed gutless.
> I've heard a number of different ones over the years.  A few are:
> Charger - chargeless
> Valiant - valium
> Vega - vagrant
> LeMans - lemons
> Most of these were from the people that owned the cars...
> BTW, I heard gutless back in the late 60s.
>
> Kurt
> 71 442
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

Dave queries:

> Any more?

Lessee....

We used to call my buddy's Dodge Dart a "Dog Fart"

And in the Motorcycle category....

Kawa-Smokey
Yama-HaHaHa



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:20:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Dieselmania

At 01:36 AM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:32 PM 11/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 96-11-12 17:01:10 EST, you write:
>>
>>> What about the V6 diesel?   I remember seeing one of these
mentioned=20 >>>  in a service manual, but I've never seen one to day.
I belive it was=
 a=20
>>>  V6 *OLDS* too....
>>
>>That would be the 4.3 litre (260) Diesel V6 available in Cutlass
Cieras=
 from
>                              ^^^
>                        Chilton's lists it as a 263ci V-6 (just to pick
a=
 nit)
>[snip]
>>near as plentiful as the 5.7s.  They were a pretty hot item with the
>>Mennonite community around here as used cars.  Mennonites paint their
cars >>all black, including the chrome (at least they used to), for
those of you=
 who
>>aren't aware what they are.  They're a little more "worldly" than the=
 Amish.
>
>And the diesel cars are acceptable, while the gasoline versions are
not, >because diesel fuel is less "refined", and thus more natural than
gasoline. >I don't know their views on LPG or propane-powered cars; we
kinda skipped >over that chapter in my "American Religion" class. >
>>Now, does anyone (WizKid doesn't count) know what the THIRD Olds
Diesel=
 was?
>
>Sure, the Olds 260ci V-8 diesel, produced from 1979-1980; with a
whopping >90hp and 170 ft/lbs of torque, it made the 2.5L "Iron Duke"
motor look like >a W-30 by comparison... ;) > >I wonder why you never
hear about buildups based on a "diesel-block 260"; >perhaps the only
engine whose main journal bores were larger than the=
 piston
>bores! (well, very nearly...)
>
>I recall an article in Motor Trend from that era, when Olds was in the=
 thick
>of diesel development, which highlighted a "high-speed" diesel that
Olds >developed, using tuned-port air induction, on that 263ci V-6. They
put it=
 in
>a modified Ciera, and it bested the acceleration of the gas version by
a >wide margin. > >----------- >- Bob Barry >- 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970
Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys) >- 1978 Electra Limited
Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!) > > > I already mentioned this
engine a few days ago.  And while right your are about the 260 V8 as a
3rd diesel, it was brought up recently, in a reply about all of the
possible V8 engines that were available in the Cutlass. The original
submitter omitting this version.  Even with it's neck straining
acceleration, and rear axle popping torque, the '79 we had approach 35+
mpg highway; which 'tisn't to bad for car that size.  It was however
driven by a retired Shell Oil Co. engineer, that went to work for us
after leaving Shell, and he was well coached in fuel conservation.  His
driving techniques supported this.

He fueled the car right to the cap, kept a daily log of the car's use,
and saw to it that it got 1000 mile oil changes.  He also got 70,000
miles on a set of factory nylon bias ply tires (on his family 88 wagon),
when the best the rest of us could do was under 20,000.

So for my 2=A2 (or $0.02, if you prefer decimals) while it was far from
a high-performance 455, it was a frugal fuel user.

Wizkid

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:25:38 -0400
Subject: Rochester Carb Technical Info

After waiting for a month or so, I got my "Manuals Order Form MO-970"
in the mail yesterday.

I was thinking of ordering the binders also, but the order form seems a
little confusing on that issue.  Part 9X is listed as Parts and Service
manual with contents, but doesnt include the "Volume II binder".  This
is available seperately for another $21.50

I'm assuming that part 9X contains volumes one and two, but they only
send you a binder for volume one.  How big is volume two?  Is it worth
another $21.50 for the second binder?

Or should I skip the binders altogether and buy a couple of 3" ring
binders at the local Office Depot?

Anybody order the Delco Remy manuals listed on the other side of
the order form?  I'm curious as to whats in them.
Starter/alternator/regulator
info?

For those newcomers to the list;

  Supposedly GM has a warehouse full of service books for Rochester
Carbs.  The only way to order one is to first send a letter to:

 AC-Delco
 35000 Industrial Road
 Livonia, Mi  48150-1250

and request "Manuals Order Form MO-970".  After that arrives,
order P/N 9XC for the contents only or P/N 9X for the contents
in a hard cover binder.  Cost is $15 or $36.

- -Jeff Easton
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-speed

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:32:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

At 01:58 AM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Yeah, I have a few...(mostly f*rd related)
>
>Rustang
>Thunderturd
>F*cker Only Runs Downhill(parents had a '82 Rustang that lived up to
>this)
>For Old Retarded Drivers(not the most PC saying)
>Fix Or Repair Daily(been there, done that)
>Found On Road Dead
>Backwards:  Driver Returns On Foot
>Poor Old Nitwit Thinks Its A Chevy
>Cheap Heap Every Valve Rattles Oil Leaks Every Time
>Oldsmobubble
>Break My Wallet
>Backwards:  Wanted Mercedes Benz
>For all the 5.0 Rustang Lovers I affectionately call your car a 5 Point
>Slow (unfortunately most are not)
>Screaming Chickens (TAs)
>My father had a '61 Chevy Belair that many people referred to it as the
>Batmobile.
>
>I am sure there are more that I can't remember.
>
>
F***ing old rebuilt Dodge
Thunderchicken
Muskrat
Monty Charcoal
Rolls con 'ardlye (Rolls down one hill can hardly make it up the next)
A common one, "stovebolt"

My dad had a '49 Buick often referred to as the General Sherman

All I can think of right now,

Wizkid

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:32:03 -0400
Subject: hesitation

Hello everyone, I have a problem and I don't know what it could be. The
other day I was sitting at a stop light, and as I went to hit the gas
(normal, not flooring it) my car almost died on me. It seemed as though
it wasn't getting any gas. When I let off the gas it came back to life.
I hit the gas pedal about three times and it still did this. The fourth
time it took off. What causes this?
     My second problem happened a little later. I shifted my car from
Drive to Overdrive, when I hit the gas and the car down shifted, my car
jerked really bad. I thought my transmission was going to blow up. This
jerk was a front to back kind of jerk. Can anyone PLEASE help out?
Thanks.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu

'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:38:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Rochester Carb Technical Info

At 09:25 AM 11/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>After waiting for a month or so, I got my "Manuals Order Form MO-970"
>in the mail yesterday.
>
>I was thinking of ordering the binders also, but the order form seems a
little >confusing on that issue.  Part 9X is listed as Parts and Service
manual with >contents, but doesnt include the "Volume II binder".  This
is available >seperately for another $21.50 > >I'm assuming that part 9X
contains volumes one and two, but they only send you >a binder for
volume one.  How big is volume two?  Is it worth another >$21.50 for the
second binder?

I had this question also, but I didn't see a binder listed for volume 2
(only for volume 1). I've got a pile of binders here at home, so I'm not
worried about the quantity of papers in volume 2; I would be interested
in finding out.

In addition, in people's experience, how long does it take to receive
the manuals? I just sent the check for $36.00 off yesterday, and would
like to be fine-tuning my carb as soon as possible.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:47:13 -0400
Subject: re: Rochester Carb Technical Info

>  From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com, on 11/13/96 10:25 AM:

>  After waiting for a month or so, I got my "Manuals Order Form MO-970"
>  in the mail yesterday.
>
>  I was thinking of ordering the binders also, but the order form seems
a little >  confusing on that issue.  Part 9X is listed as Parts and
Service manual with >  contents, but doesnt include the "Volume II
binder".  This is available >  seperately >  for another $21.50

(snip)

>  and request "Manuals Order Form MO-970".  After that arrives,
>  order P/N 9XC for the contents only or P/N 9X for the contents
>  in a hard cover binder.  Cost is $15 or $36.
>
>  -Jeff Easton
>  jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

Jeff,

I'd say that you _definitely_ want the binder.  The manual for the
Rochester Carbs is literally a foot thick, and trying to break it down
into three or four 3-inch binders would be a pain.  The binder is
specifically designed to hold the manual.  I'd get it.


Dan



*********************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
8 York Drive
Athens, OH  45701
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
*********************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:50:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting The Pace

Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> The real reason I'm replying is to encourage you to join OCA.  What
> is keeping you from joining?  Whether you get the book or not, I
> think you'll appreciate the monthly newsletter (Journey With Olds).
> It's more than a letter, but less than a magazine.  You own a
> shining example of why the club exists.  Join the club!

The honest truth is that my better half thinks that I am becoming
obsessed with the whole Oldsmobile enthusiasm.

I still working it :-)

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:46:27 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

At 09:32 AM 11/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello everyone, I have a problem and I don't know what it could be. The
>other day I was sitting at a stop light, and as I went to hit the gas
>(normal, not flooring it) my car almost died on me. It seemed as though
it >wasn't getting any gas. When I let off the gas it came back to life.
I hit >the gas pedal about three times and it still did this. The fourth
time it >took off. What causes this?

I'd say it was an accelerator pump problem; which of your cars was it
on? Does it happen all the time, or only that once? And does it happen
only under part-throttle acceleration from a stop, or also under
full-throttle?

>     My second problem happened a little later. I shifted my car from
Drive >to Overdrive, when I hit the gas and the car down shifted, my car
jerked >really bad. I thought my transmission was going to blow up. This
jerk was a >front to back kind of jerk. Can anyone PLEASE help out?
Thanks.

That sounds like your lock-up converter isn't unlocking for the
downshift; sticky solenoid or perhaps the TV cable? (I don't know
overdrives...) _______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept,
Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:40:44 -0400
Subject: Rochester in my Ninety Eight 1964

I still have problems with my Rochester carb.

I know, I'm repeating myself, and I've got a nice answer
of a good restorer there in USA. However I would like to
swamp the fully serviced carb into naftaline and replace
it with a more modern one. I think this was the first
rochester 4 barrel carburetor they ever used.

I am not a perfectionist in restoration and I think that
slight modifications won't hurt anybody as long as they
are reversible. I think a carburetor swap would be
reversible.

Do you guys have any suggestions for a good carburetor.

Would it be possible to put fuel injection into my olds ?
(hope this does not sound silly, asking anyway)

If you have experience in carburetor swaps, especially
walking away from a Rochester, please let me hear some.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:07:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> I kinda thought maybe you did.  What color did we tell you the
> interior should be?

Teal Frost outside, Parchment inside

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:12:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Rochester Carb Technical Info

>  From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>, on 11/13/96
10:38 AM:

>  In addition, in people's experience, how long does it take to receive
the >  manuals? I just sent the check for $36.00 off yesterday, and
would like to >  be fine-tuning my carb as soon as possible.

Not long.  A couple of weeks, as I recall.

Dan



*********************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
8 York Drive
Athens, OH  45701
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
*********************************************************

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:29:39 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Body identification

Hey Chris

You will probably get lots of answers.
The "G" bodies are the Cutlasses, Regals, Grand Pris, and Monte Carlos
made from '81-'87 also including the '88 Cutlass Classic, and I think
the '80 and late 70's cars of this type.

        Correct.  The 78-88 RWD Cutlass, along with the Monte, Grand
        Prix, and Regal/GN are G-bodies.

The "A" body was the older of these types of cars e.g. 60's early 70's
the ones with the more round, almost fastback-like design.

        The "mid-size" cars (Cutlass/F-85/442, Malibu/Chevelle,
        Special/Skylark/Gran Sport, and Tempest/LeMans/GTO) were
        designated the A-bodies from at least 64 through 72.  The A-body

        designation continued into the 73-77 cars, but I think there was

        a different designation for the notchback cars
        (Supreme/Regal/Monte/GP) as opposed to the fastback cars
        (Cutlass/Century/Chevelle/LeMans). I think this was the origin
of
        the "A-special" body, which ultimately became the G. I'm not
sure
        about the 61-63 cars.  The A-body designation was later
        reassigned to the FWD Ciera/Century/Celebrity/6000 cars in 82,
        with the RWD cars retaining the G-body nomenclature.  Was there
a
        period of time (78-81) when the A designated the RWD cars
instead
        of G?

Also, what is the dividing point between these designs?  I've always
thought that the mid 70's cars were sort of a "fuzzy" spot in between.
There are lots of other designs signified by letters:

X-body Citation, J2000, etc.
F-body Firebird, Camaro...
K-cars Chrysler, I think we all remember these!
B-bodies Chrysler
W-bodies (I think this is what they are referring to the new Cutlass
design (post 88) as.  Correct me if I'm wrong).

     Whoops.  Hold on a second.  You seem to forget that _each_
automaker
     had a designation for its car platforms.  I thought we were just
     referring to GM cars.  Of course, GM swapped platform designations
     around, particularly during the period of "downsizing" in the late
     70s, which makes it confusing.  Also, car line names got swapped
back
     and forth among different platforms.  The Bonneville name for a
while
     was found on the Mid Size Pontiac (the Full Size went away for a
while
     then came back as the Paresienne), the F-85 name graced the RWD
Omega
     for a while, and the Nova and LeMans names have come back on
     Asian-built captive imports!  Try this:

     A - Mid Size:  64-77(?) RWD Cutlass/Skylark/Chevelle/LeMans
                    82-up FWD Ciera/Century/Celebrity/6000
     B - Full Size:  62(?)-8? RWD Delta 88/LeSabre/Caprice/Bonneville
                     84(?)-up FWD Delta 88/LeSabre/Bonneville
     C - Luxury:  RWD Delta 98/Electra/Fleetwood
                  FWD 98/Park Ave/DeVille
     D - Limo
     E - Personal Luxury: Toro/Eldo/Riviera (up to 94)
     F - Sporty: Camaro/Firebird
     G - 81(?)-88 RWD Supreme/Regal/Grand Prix/Monte Carlo
         95-up FWD Aurora/Riviera
     H - Small:  RWD Starfire/Skyhawk/Sunbird/Monza
     J - Small:  FWD Firenza/Skyhawk/Sunbird/Cavalier
     N - 85-? FWD Calais/Somerset-Skylark/Grand Am
     T - Compact:  RWD Chevette/1000
     W - Mid Size:  FWD Supreme/Regal/Grand Prix/Lumina
                    (Note: this was originally the GM10)
     X - 62-76(?) RWD Nova/Omega/Ventura/Apollo (also the original RWD
Seville)
         78-85(?) FWD Omega/Skylark/Phoenix/Citation
     Z - Corvair

     Now here is where I need help.  Can anyone fill in the following:

     ??? - Corvette
     ??? - Beretta/Corsica
     ??? - Reatta
     ??? - FWD Seville

     There is confusion due to the reassignment of letters, as shown
     above, and the ill-fated attempt by GM to get away from the
     letter designations (I think they were sick and tired of hearing
     about the X-cars and the J-cars).  For a while in the mid-80s
     there was a numeric naming convention, starting with the then-new
     FWD Supreme/Grand Prix/Regal/Lumina cars.  These were designated
     the GM10 series, with each other car line being given a numeric
     designator.  This only lasted a few years, and the GM10s became
     the W cars.

     The GM truck lines have similar platform designators:

     C - Full Size 2WD Pickup, including Blazer/Suburban/Crew Cab except
88-91
     G - Full Size Van
     K - Full Size 4WD Pickup, including Blazer/Suburban/Crew Cab except
88-91
     P - Delivery Van
     R - Full Size 2WD Blazer/Suburban/Crew Cab 88-91 (old-style body)
     S - Small 2WD Pickup/S-10 Blazer/Jimmy
     T - Small 4WD Pickup/S-10 Blazer/Jimmy/Bravada
     V - Full Size 4WD Blazer/Suburban/Crew Cab 88-91 (old-style body)
     ? - Astro Van
     ? - FWD Lumina/Trans Sport/Sillouette

     If someone can help fill in the blanks and confirm the question
     marks, we'll have a nice start on FAQ 3.0.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:15:03 -0400
Subject: hesitation

 The problem I'm having is on my '87 Cutlass Supreme. It doesn't happen
all the time, this was the second time it did this. It is under part
throttle acceleration. I don't know if it happens at full throttle
because the car will die if I push the gas that far. Of course this only
happens from a dead stop.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu

'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:18:32 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

Andy Geeting wrote:

> Hello everyone, I have a problem and I don't know what it could be.
The > other day I was sitting at a stop light, and as I went to hit the
gas > (normal, not flooring it) my car almost died on me. It seemed as
though it > wasn't getting any gas. When I let off the gas it came back
to life. I hit > the gas pedal about three times and it still did this.
The fourth time it > took off. What causes this?

This sort of sounds familiar.  Maybe a fuel pump.

>      My second problem happened a little later. I shifted my car from
> Drive to Overdrive, when I hit the gas and the car down shifted, my
car > jerked really bad. I thought my transmission was going to blow up.
This > jerk was a front to back kind of jerk. Can anyone PLEASE help
out? Thanks.

This sort of sounds familiar.  Maybe the transmission modulator unit.
Or
even the fuel pump here too.

Just my thoughts.  I have been through what you describe just recently
with
my 68 442.  Let me know how things go and good luck.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

Andy Geeting wrote:
>
> The problem I'm having is on my '87 Cutlass Supreme. It doesn't happen
 > all the time, this was the second time it did this. It is under part
 > throttle acceleration. I don't know if it happens at full throttle >
because the car will die if I push the gas that far. Of course this >
only happens from a dead stop.

SOUNDS like fuel starvation.  Couple of possibilities in order of
expense:

1) The fuel filter, if dirty, may let enough gas through until you need
that extra umph and it can't supply it.

2) Fuel pump, for the same reason.  Low pressure so no extra juice.

3) Accelerator (sp?) pump in the carb.  It job is to supply the extra
squirt of gas when you mash the throtte (until the engine can draw more
by intake vacuum).  If the piston is leaky and doesn't squirt the extra
gas, you get the "boggs".

Of course, timing and distributer advance should be checked.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:44:16 -0400
Subject: RE: hesitation

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD14F.9EF99940
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I thought mechanical fuel pumps only leaked oil when they started to=20
break down? Could it be that small black box, that sits near the carb,
 (don't remember the name) which controls the choke.. somebody help me =
out here.. Sorry, barely remember since mine croaked on me 5 years ago.
= (86 supreme cutlass 307)

- ----------
From: 	Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks[SMTP:sparks@aisf.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, November 13, 1996 10:18 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: hesitation

Andy Geeting wrote:

> Hello everyone, I have a problem and I don't know what it could be. =
The
> other day I was sitting at a stop light, and as I went to hit the gas
> (normal, not flooring it) my car almost died on me. It seemed as =
though it
> wasn't getting any gas. When I let off the gas it came back to life. I
= hit > the gas pedal about three times and it still did this. The
fourth time = it > took off. What causes this?

This sort of sounds familiar.  Maybe a fuel pump.

>      My second problem happened a little later. I shifted my car from
> Drive to Overdrive, when I hit the gas and the car down shifted, my =
car
> jerked really bad. I thought my transmission was going to blow up. =
This
> jerk was a front to back kind of jerk. Can anyone PLEASE help out? =
Thanks.

This sort of sounds familiar.  Maybe the transmission modulator unit.=20
Or
even the fuel pump here too.

Just my thoughts.  I have been through what you describe just recently
with
my 68 442.  Let me know how things go and good luck.

Chris Sparks




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------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:46:06 -0400
Subject: RE: Rochester Carb Technical Info

Thanks for the info Jeff. I am new to the list and have not seen this
before. I will order the form.

You are the first one I have seen on this list that has a 4 speed 70 442
(remember I am new). Would you tell me more about it (E-mail address
below). I brought a new 442 in 70 with a 4 speed. It was rally red with
white interor. I would like to find a 4 speed like that. The one I have
now is a automatic.


Bobby

70 442
92 Seville
88 Seville
________________________________________________________________________
_______ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Wed, Nov 13, 1996 9:42 AM
Subject: Rochester Carb Technical Info To:         -
(052)oldsmobile(a)chebucto.ns.ca

After waiting for a month or so, I got my "Manuals Order Form MO-970"
in the mail yesterday.

I was thinking of ordering the binders also, but the order form seems a
little confusing on that issue.  Part 9X is listed as Parts and Service
manual with contents, but doesnt include the "Volume II binder".  This
is available seperately for another $21.50

I'm assuming that part 9X contains volumes one and two, but they only
send you a binder for volume one.  How big is volume two?  Is it worth
another $21.50 for the second binder?

Or should I skip the binders altogether and buy a couple of 3" ring
binders at the local Office Depot?

Anybody order the Delco Remy manuals listed on the other side of
the order form?  I'm curious as to whats in them.
Starter/alternator/regulator
info?

For those newcomers to the list;

  Supposedly GM has a warehouse full of service books for Rochester
Carbs.  The only way to order one is to first send a letter to:

 AC-Delco
 35000 Industrial Road
 Livonia, Mi  48150-1250

and request "Manuals Order Form MO-970".  After that arrives,
order P/N 9XC for the contents only or P/N 9X for the contents
in a hard cover binder.  Cost is $15 or $36.

- -Jeff Easton
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-speed


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------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:43:35 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

I have a problem sort of like this too - its just not a severe... When I
accelerate from a slow speed or a stop with about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle
the engine looses power, its still running ok, there is just not much
power... Its probably the jetting right? I tried timing and that helped
a little but I stated to get knocks and pings so I backed off. I tried
adjusting the idle mixture screws (ebelbrock carb - sorry guys) and that
helped a little also. Its not a severe problem just a little anoying...


Marc Westerlind
1970 Cutlass Supreme

>
>  The problem I'm having is on my '87 Cutlass Supreme. It doesn't
happen all > the time, this was the second time it did this. It is under
part throttle > acceleration. I don't know if it happens at full
throttle because the car > will die if I push the gas that far. Of
course this only happens from a dead > stop. > > Andy Geeting >
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu > > '87 Cutlass Supreme > '88 Cutlass
Supreme Classic Brougham > '74 Delta 88 convertible > > >

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:58:30 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

>In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:50 EST, you write:
>
>> Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast?
>>
>>
>One word.  Fuses... and relays.  <snip>
>
>Paul
>
>

If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan operation?
Mine simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and doesn't always
operate at low  fan speeds .

Thanks to all who have responded.

Roger Hitson
hitson@leadbelt.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Rochester in my Ninety Eight 1964

At 10:40 AM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I still have problems with my Rochester carb.
>
>I know, I'm repeating myself, and I've got a nice answer
>of a good restorer there in USA. However I would like to
>swamp the fully serviced carb into naftaline and replace
>it with a more modern one. I think this was the first
>rochester 4 barrel carburetor they ever used.
>
>I am not a perfectionist in restoration and I think that
>slight modifications won't hurt anybody as long as they
>are reversible. I think a carburetor swap would be
>reversible.
>
>Do you guys have any suggestions for a good carburetor.
>
>Would it be possible to put fuel injection into my olds ?
>(hope this does not sound silly, asking anyway)
>
>If you have experience in carburetor swaps, especially
>walking away from a Rochester, please let me hear some.
>
>--=20
>**********************************************
>* Esko Ilola                                 *
>* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
>* X400  G=3Desko S=3Dilola O=3Dtele A=3Dmailnet C=3Dfi *
>* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
>* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
>*       01610 VANTAA                         *
>*       FINLAND                              *
>**********************************************
>* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
>*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
>**********************************************
>
>
>
Dear Esko,

In the arena of thoughts.  Almost any new stock style carb (such as a
Q'jet) that you would find in the U.S. today will be chock full of
plumbing to handle all of the emmissions junk that has been legislated
into our cars for the last thirty years.  Your car is a pre-much
emissions car, and you should keep it that way.  New carbs are not
substantially better in the area of their primary responsibility to the
engine, ie, to vaporize the liquid fuel; than older ones are!  However,
some of the guys on this site are very much up on racing/rodding and may
be able to recommend a newer carb that lacks the emmissions attributes,
and while it may not be "street legal here" would serve your purposes
nicely.  However, even then, I doubt you would receive much of a boost
in your cars performance.

As for as the fancy fuel injectors available today, they do offer some
advantages.  Modern engines with f.i. and high intensity igintion seem
to live for ever.  There is no raw fuel dumped into the bores at start
up, thus virtually eliminating un-oiled contact between the moving
parts; and the improved ignition tends to start cars nearly instantly.
My '84 Olds usually starts on the first click of the solenoid.   The '84
does not have f.i. but does have a hot ignition.  The downside of f.i.
set ups, is that they are fairly expensive, may need a great deal of one
off engineering to be made to work.

Now comes 2=A2 worth of advice.  A 1964 car can offer good reliability,
as=
 is.
If it was mine I might find new or new, or rebuilt components; of the
original design, and use it.  I have a '68 D**ge that I keep for a 2nd
car, for when the '84 Delta and '87 Caprice are acting up.  The Dodge is
strictly stock.  I don't believe a newer carb or f.i. is going to give
you any real performance changes, especially at the cost of f.i.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 daily driver
1979 Olds Delta 88 hanger queen
1931 Olds Patrician Sedan under restoration
1931 Olds 4-door parts for the Patrician

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:23:44 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

Joanne Beausoleil wrote:
>
> I thought mechanical fuel pumps only leaked oil when they started to
> break down? Could it be that small black box, that sits near the carb,
>  (don't remember the name) which controls the choke.. somebody help me
out here.. Sorry, barely > remember since mine croaked on me 5 years
ago. (86 supreme cutlass 307)

They do both.  My recent oil leak that I thought I was having was a
combination oil leak/gas leak (inside and outside).  All of which
eminated from my fuel pump.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:28:15 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

At 09:58 AM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:50 EST, you write:
>>
>>> Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast?
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>One word.  Fuses... and relays.  <snip>
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>
>If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan
operation?=
 Mine=20
>simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and doesn't always
operate= =20 >at low  fan speeds . > >Thanks to all who have responded. >
>Roger Hitson >hitson@leadbelt.com > > Once upon a time I had a fan that
opperated in all of the speeds but one.  I don't remember the car
anymore, as it was at least 20 years ago, but it HAD to be a full sized
GM.  There was one of GM's dubious fuzeable links in the fan circuit
that cause the one speed failure (I don't remember which speed) and
allowed the usual operation thru the switch for all of the others.

However, howling/screeching and noises sounds more like a unlubricated
bearing than an electrical problem.  There is also the remote
possibility that the squirrel cage is loose on the shaft, are that the
entire blower assy is loose, causing things to rub that ordinarily would
not.

Another 2=A2 ($0.020)

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:01:00 -0400
Subject: [none]

> On the other hand, locating,  purchasing, and installing all of this
hardware would >have  been so expensive that it would have been more
cost effective just to buy a >real W-30 - making highly unlikely  that
the car is a fake.

          >Joe Padavano
         > jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

All,
Let me share with you just some of my buys:
Rally-pack: One for $5, one for free
'70 Red inner fenders: $100
'70 OAI aircleaner, complete right down to the original wingnut: $150
Correct code 3.42 Anti- Spin from 70 W30: $200 (I passed on this one-
oops!) '70 W31 aluminum intake: $50 '70 442 grilles (mint): $5

In short, with about 10 years of scrounging parts, I could convince the
average buyer that I was selling them a W30.  IMHO, if you don't have
the build sheet/window sticker, you don't have a genuine W30.  Then
again, you can't disprove it as a W30 either, since the documentation
is a double edged sword.  Since I'm an honest guy, let me tell you
about my '70 442.  My '70 442 had the following on it when I got it:
Original 455 with 2 forged pistons, and 6 cast ones. E heads, non-stock
valve springs OAI hood with hold down pins.  The pin bases mounted on
the radiator support look completely original, paint matches rest of
engine compartment. 4 speed with correct linkage. Very nice conversion,
cuz the car was originally AT Air Conditioning Holes in trunk pan where
lug wrench holding clips were mounted, indicating SSII wheels.  Cragar
SS wheels on it when I got it. Holes in trunk pan and bumper (inside of
hole edges were chromed!?!) for hitch Replaced fenders, with black
fender liners held in with only 2 or 3 bolts each. Bucket seats
recovered with very nice velour in original pattern upholstery.
 Head liner was new too, so much for build sheet hiding places.
Dual sport mirrors
3.23 12 bolt Anti-Spin
4 core radiator
Correct coded fan clutch
Car made in Lansing
Power steering/power disc brakes.
W30 badges on the fenders
Car repainted, but original color.  So much for orig. stripes.  Still
has original vinyl top. Holley intake  and carb, Mallory distributor.
No Rallye Pack, but tach wire was in place and had obviously been
clipped. '70 Cutlass supreme grilles, brand new, and a brand new front
bumper

So, from the pistons, we know the motor has been really worked over.
Broken pistons indicate the heads were off.  Who knows if there were F
heads on there originally?  The loosely installed fender wells say that
these have been out, and the replaced fenders eliminate the chance of
looking for the original W30 emblem holes.  The replaced fenders and
bumper/grilles could indicate a collision, but the frame is perfect,
and the car was never wrecked.  Perhaps somebody started to part it
out, then changed their mind? The trans is obviously a transplant (bad
pun), but the 3.23 rear end is correct for a W30 with AC.  So, who is
to say if it's a W30 or not?  The only thing I cannot determine is if
the car came with the "reduced body sound deadener".  What should I be
looking for here?

To wrap up this long-winded story, I cannot prove the car is a W30, but
I cannot disprove it either, since any of the missing pieces could have
been lost sometime during the obviously active history of the car.  I
bought it in '88 with 145,000 on it, so it has obviously been around.
Do I enjoy it?
 You bet, and it performs strong, so I let it continue to wear the W30
badges.  Complimented by red fender liners, OAI air cleaner, and my
active die grinder (E heads into F, and heat passages blocked with Zinc
alloy, better than the factory ever did), and you have a Mullen-ized
W30.  Unless you can produce a build sheet for my car that proves it's
not a W30, then I can claim it is.  Would I sell it as a W30?  Nope,
but who knows, it may just be one.  I agree with Mark Prince, if you
don't have papers, then you can't claim W30 when you sell.  So, if you
see me out and about, you know the whole sordid history of my car.  Can
I have a tally of votes about whether it's a W30 or not?

Scott Mullen
'70 442


------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:34:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Rochester in my Ninety Eight 1964

Here is my 2 cents:
I put an edelbrock carb on my 70 cutlass (350ci) and it made a world of
a difference. The downside is that you will have to go through the
settings of the choke and mixture adjustments. The carbs come with a
very detailed manual whick will help you set up and troubleshoot
everything (I had to tune mine without it and it was still pretty
simple)

Marc Westerlind
1970 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:31:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

Ok oldmophiles,

I was talking to a coworker about my car the other day and he mentioned
to me
that he thought my car could go 140 mph.  I told him no way with a 400 3
speed.
Does anyone think that he probably thought my car was a 455 4 speed,
thus the
140 mph?  How does the performance figures for 1968 Oldsmobiles compare
to one
another.  Even better how about overall for the 442 models.

Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to tackle this one.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:40:50 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Dieselmania

     That would have to be the 260 V8 diesel.  Used from sometime in the

     mid-70's through '79 or '80 I think.  I know it was an option on my

     '79 when I had it (fortunately I had the much more powerful 260 gas

     ;-) in mine).  I don't know much more about these, other than I
figure
     they must have been *really* slow, and they probably were a bit
more
     reliable than the 350 diesel due to the small displacement in the
same
     block.

     Every time I went to the parts store they asked if it was the gas
or
     diesel.  Even when I asked for a distributor cap.  I considered
     messing with the teenage counter person at the time and telling him

     "Yes, it's a diesel and throw in a set of spark plugs too".  But I
     wanted out of there before I got old.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Dieselmania Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/12/96 7:49 PM

Now, does anyone (WizKid doesn't count) know what the THIRD Olds Diesel
was?

Paul
Former Hammer-mill Driver


------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:05:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 12:31 PM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok oldmophiles,
>
>I was talking to a coworker about my car the other day and he mentioned
>to me
>that he thought my car could go 140 mph.  I told him no way with a 400
3 >speed. >Does anyone think that he probably thought my car was a 455 4
speed, >thus the >140 mph?  How does the performance figures for 1968
Oldsmobiles compare >to one >another.  Even better how about overall for
the 442 models. > >Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to tackle this
one. > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > It is quite likely at 400ci engined
3000 pound car can be made to acheve a 140 mph top speed.  With
sufficient hp, any mass can be brought to 140 mph. With a mere 7,000,000
eph a Saturn V can move a very large house even faster than that.

With sufficient HP, the limiting factors, if a bit over simplified, are
the max. rpm of the engine vs the effective rear axle ratio.  The
approximate top speed of a car with a 546 axle ratio will be about half
of a car with a 273!  No point in mentioning the time to reach top speed
conditions.

I believe any good GM +/- 400ci engine would deliver sufficent hp to
move your car past this speed with the necessary drive train, it just
might feel like it took forever to get there.  It is unlikely that your
car was made for top speed, but rather, with more of an eye for rapid
acceleration. Rapid acceleration cancels out high top speed.  The engine
reaches top redline before car can achieve such top speed.

The Wizkid

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:12:11 -0400
Subject: '70 Cutlass Supreme Owners Manual

Does anyone have a '70 Cutlass Supreme Owners Manual For Sale?

If so please EMail us.

thanks.....j&r

------------------------------

From: OD135GUY@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:09:45 -0400
Subject: Re: ECM Problems

If you press on the ecm and the car is better it could be that the
circut board is bent due to heat. I have seen it happen before. let me
know what happens.








eric

------------------------------

From: OD135GUY@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:20:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 70 Olds 442

I have a year one cataloge with that info call me at 609-584-0684 ask
for eric and I'll see what i can do

------------------------------

From: OD135GUY@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:28:19 -0400
Subject: Re: '71 Cutlass Fenders

I've got one email at OD135GUY@aol.com matter fact i have the fender to

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 05:22:49 -0400
Subject: Re: hesitation

     Things to check:

     1.  Accelerator pump.  Shut off the car, take the lid off the air
     cleaner and open the throttle quickly by hand.  You should see a
good
     squirt of gas into the primaries if the accelerator pump is
working.

     2.  Float level in carb could be too low.  You can check this
     externally by dropping a "dipstick" type gauge down the vent tube.

     These "dipsticks" are available at Napa for about $15.  Pretty
spendy
     for some plastic sticks, but beats taking the carb apart.

     3.  Your throttle position sensor is out of adjustment or broken.
Not
     hard to adjust if you have a digital voltmeter.  I had a the same
     symptoms on my '84 H/O and the TPS turned out to be the culprit.
The
     instructions to adjust this are in most manuals, and might be in
the
     FAQ too.  If not, e-mail me and I'll send you a copy I already
typed
     up for someone else.

     4.  Some other sort of carb problem.  Plugged circuit, etc.  A
rebuild
     is your best bet here.

     If it wasn't a computer controlled car, it could also be something
     wrong with the centrifugal advance (flying out too soon).  But your

     car doesn't have that.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: hesitation Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/13/96 8:39 AM


 The problem I'm having is on my '87 Cutlass Supreme. It doesn't happen
all the time, this was the second time it did this. It is under part
throttle acceleration. I don't know if it happens at full throttle
because the car will die if I push the gas that far. Of course this
only happens from a dead stop.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu

'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible



------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:33:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

     Oh, yeah, this one's for our Chevy friends!  (Sorry Jason L. I had
to do this!!!)

IROC:  Italian Retard Out Cruising
       I Run Over Children
       It's Really Only (a) Camaro
       ---- ------ ---- --- ------

Ooooh, we could make a book.....  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:38:23 -0400
Subject: RE: heater fan motor

There is a resistor that is in the circuit for the low speed of the fan.
It is located right above the fan motor (or in that area). It looks like
a relay or switch contacts and has a connector going to it. This can be
replaced without taking out the fan. A good repair manual should show
the location. I dont have one here to reference. Replaceing the fan will
not fix this. But you may still have to replace the fan to get read of
the noise.

Hope this helps.

Bobby

70 442
92 Seville
88 Seville
________________________________________________________________________
_______ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Wed, Nov 13, 1996 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: heater fan motor To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

At 09:58 AM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:50 EST, you write:
>>
>>> Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast?
>>>
>>>
>>One word.  Fuses... and relays.  <snip>
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>
>If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan operation?
Mine >simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and doesn't
always operate >at low  fan speeds . > >Thanks to all who have
responded. > >Roger Hitson >hitson@leadbelt.com > > Once upon a time I
had a fan that opperated in all of the speeds but one.  I don't remember
the car anymore, as it was at least 20 years ago, but it HAD to be a
full sized GM.  There was one of GM's dubious fuzeable links in the fan
circuit that cause the one speed failure (I don't remember which speed)
and allowed the usual operation thru the switch for all of the others.

However, howling/screeching and noises sounds more like a unlubricated
bearing than an electrical problem.  There is also the remote
possibility that the squirrel cage is loose on the shaft, are that the
entire blower assy is loose, causing things to rub that ordinarily would
not.

Another 2#162# ($0.020)

Cliff Feiler



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------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:34:20 -0400
Subject: Hesitation Clues, windy, winterization, windy...

Some things to check would be vacuum advance, acc. pump, and choke
operation.  While the acc. pump is probably the easiest to check, many
other problems are often blamed on it.  Open the choke, and look down
the throat and open the throttle, while watching the pump shot.  It
should be smooth and strong through most of the duration.  If there's
nothing, well you know the problem then!  If that's OK, check out your
choke operation.  I didn't notice where you said you're at, but around
here it's November, and believe me, it ~really~ is! (****ing snow!)  If
you're choke is not functioning right, and the engine is cold, the same
thing will happen.  The engine runs really lean and you have to pump the
crap out of it to move anywhere.  (I've masterred this procedure, 'cuz I
can never seem to keep a choke on the Rockit!)  Sometimes those choke
coils go bad, the're a bimetal thermal element used to open the choke
when the engine warms up.  It draws vacuum through that pipe in the
crossover passage in the intake, which is vented through that port on
the top back of the carb.  (If you disconnect this port, there should be
a slight vacuum present in the pipe -- careful it might be hot!)  Enough
choking lectures!  :)  Another item often masking itself as an acc. pump
problem is the vacuum advance.  Sometimes the pickup coil wires'
insulation will get crunchy and break off, and when the vacuum advance
moves it, the wires can short out, temporarily disabling the ignition.
When the engine stalls, and the vacuum is lost, the pickup coil rotates
back and clears the short, and engine pops back to life, or something
like that.  Check the advance canister.  Get a timing light and a vacuum
pump, if you can, and see that it is actually advancing the timing.
Another thing to check while you're right there is the stability of the
connection to your distributer.  I had a problem with the power lead at
the cap (HEI)  I'd nail the throttle, the engine would torque over, and
the wire would pull ~out~ of the coil harness!  The engine would stall
(of course) but when it fell back down to its resting position, the wire
would connect again, and it would just idle back to normal!  Boy that
was a ba**ard to figure out!

I've also seen many engine tune problems diagnosed incorrectly as tranny
woes.  A lockup convertor can greatly amplify the effects of a slight
misfire.  If it's severe enough, it can cause the tranny to cycle in and
out of 4th or lockup.  If the engine is stalling at the same time, you'd
likely be in for a bone jarring ride.

As for the fuel ~supply~ I'd be likely to say it isn't the problem.
Most (~most~) of the fuel supply problems I've seen are manifested at
extended rpms, rather than just off-idle.  Even through a nearly plugged
fuel filter, the float bowl will fill up at idle, giving more than
enough supply right in the carb to allow you to nail it pretty hard.
Same goes with the pump. Here again, I'll add that little word ~most~...

As always, don't overlook the obvious, not as culprits, but as
contributors. Air cleaner good?  Cap/Rotor/Plugs/Wires all decent?  PCV
Valve?  Fuel Filter (already mentioned I know, but it goes well here!)
It might not be a bad idea to check out all of these, since winter is
here, and might be there soon too!  An engine in proper tune will be
much happier when it is asked to ~start~ in -40 weather!  (Umm, I guess
that translates to "Really ****ing Cold" in Canadian units...)  Not that
I advocate the "throw parts at it until it runs" attitude, but these are
all items that should be regularly checked, at least. Oh, don't forget
antifreeze, tire pressures (inc. spare)  Do you have good winter style
window washer fluid?   They change the mixture throughout the year,
which is why the price goes up in winter...  How 'bout the block heater?
Battery heaters are nice too.  (I hear)  If I had ~my~ way, I'd park the
Rockit in my bedroom and sleep on the couch, but alas, it has to stay
out in the cold all winter  }:(

Anyway, if you made it through all my wind, here, good luck.  I hope
somewhere in all of this you get the problem fixed.  Oh, and if you
haven't guessed, it's ~cold, snowy, and icy~ here in Havre! :(  Still
above zero, but I don't have to like it!!! :)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:10:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

In a message dated 96-11-13 08:40:20 EST, you write:

<< *and always remember that Nova is spanish for "NO GO"* >>

Actually, that marketing problem came about it France (took French class
in H.S.).

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:24:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dieselmania

In a message dated 96-11-13 11:57:00 EST, you write:

<<  ;-) in mine).  I don't know much more about these, other than I
figure
      they must have been *really* slow, and they probably were a bit
more
      reliable than the 350 diesel due to the small displacement in the
same
      block. >>

Was this in the SAME block (size, and all)?  This could really be a good
deal for someone who has one (as far as I've understood) since the
diesel blocks can be converted to gas, and the block even on the 350 has
alot of material that could be taken out on an overbore job (I've heard
damned near .125 in. was possible w/out removing too much), but I've
just heard this, never seen one in person.

Hmmm.... (thought going through head)...

Chris Ruper.

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:27:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Hesitation Clues, windy, winterization, windy...

Just a comment on the weather here!

Our first snow here in "sunny" "warm" etc, East Tennessee, is still on
the ground.   I don't think that it has gotten above freezing (if
it has, not much) in the last 3 or 4 days.
BRRRRRRRRRR Winter is begun!

One question while I'm here, in an area that hardly ever gets below 0,
but does have snow and lotsa days in say the 20's  and 30's, what would
a proper anti-freeze (I call it radiator fluid :-)  ) to water mix be?

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (getting ready to go broke buying anti-freeze) Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 67k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)




On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, buehner wrote:

> Some things to check would be vacuum advance, acc. pump, and choke
> operation.  While the acc. pump is probably the easiest to check, many
other > problems are often blamed on it.  Open the choke, and look down
the throat > and open the throttle, while watching the pump shot.  It
should be smooth > and strong through most of the duration.  If there's
nothing, well you know > the problem then!  If that's OK, check out your
choke operation.  I didn't > notice where you said you're at, but around
here it's November, and believe > me, it ~really~ is! (****ing snow!)
If you're choke is not functioning > right, and the engine is cold, the
same thing will happen.  The engine runs > really lean and you have to
pump the crap out of it to move anywhere.  (I've > masterred this
procedure, 'cuz I can never seem to keep a choke on the > Rockit!)
Sometimes those choke coils go bad, the're a bimetal thermal > element
used to open the choke when the engine warms up.  It draws vacuum >
through that pipe in the crossover passage in the intake, which is
vented > through that port on the top back of the carb.  (If you
disconnect this > port, there should be a slight vacuum present in the
pipe -- careful it > might be hot!)  Enough choking lectures!  :)
Another item often masking > itself as an acc. pump problem is the
vacuum advance.  Sometimes the pickup > coil wires' insulation will get
crunchy and break off, and when the vacuum > advance moves it, the wires
can short out, temporarily disabling the > ignition.  When the engine
stalls, and the vacuum is lost, the pickup coil > rotates back and
clears the short, and engine pops back to life, or > something like
that.  Check the advance canister.  Get a timing light and a > vacuum
pump, if you can, and see that it is actually advancing the timing. >
Another thing to check while you're right there is the stability of the >
connection to your distributer.  I had a problem with the power lead at
the > cap (HEI)  I'd nail the throttle, the engine would torque over,
and the wire > would pull ~out~ of the coil harness!  The engine would
stall (of course) > but when it fell back down to its resting position,
the wire would connect > again, and it would just idle back to normal!
Boy that was a ba**ard to > figure out! > > I've also seen many engine
tune problems diagnosed incorrectly as tranny > woes.  A lockup
convertor can greatly amplify the effects of a slight > misfire.  If
it's severe enough, it can cause the tranny to cycle in and out > of 4th
or lockup.  If the engine is stalling at the same time, you'd likely >
be in for a bone jarring ride. > > As for the fuel ~supply~ I'd be
likely to say it isn't the problem.  Most > (~most~) of the fuel supply
problems I've seen are manifested at extended > rpms, rather than just
off-idle.  Even through a nearly plugged fuel filter, > the float bowl
will fill up at idle, giving more than enough supply right in > the carb
to allow you to nail it pretty hard.  Same goes with the pump. > Here
again, I'll add that little word ~most~... > > As always, don't
overlook the obvious, not as culprits, but as contributors. > Air
cleaner good?  Cap/Rotor/Plugs/Wires all decent?  PCV Valve?  Fuel >
Filter (already mentioned I know, but it goes well here!)  It might not
be a > bad idea to check out all of these, since winter is here, and
might be there > soon too!  An engine in proper tune will be much
happier when it is asked to > ~start~ in -40 weather!  (Umm, I guess
that translates to "Really ****ing > Cold" in Canadian units...)  Not
that I advocate the "throw parts at it > until it runs" attitude, but
these are all items that should be regularly > checked, at least. >
Oh, don't forget antifreeze, tire pressures (inc. spare)  Do you have
good > winter style window washer fluid?   They change the mixture
throughout the > year, which is why the price goes up in winter...  How
'bout the block > heater?  Battery heaters are nice too.  (I hear)  If I
had ~my~ way, I'd > park the Rockit in my bedroom and sleep on the
couch, but alas, it has to > stay out in the cold all winter  }:( > >
Anyway, if you made it through all my wind, here, good luck.  I hope >
somewhere in all of this you get the problem fixed.  Oh, and if you
haven't > guessed, it's ~cold, snowy, and icy~ here in Havre! :(  Still
above zero, > but I don't have to like it!!! :) > > >
Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >       500 4th Ave.
| "charley@rocketship.com" >       Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >       Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >       "Rockit 1"            | '81
Olds Cutlass 425 >       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > >

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:39:31 -0400
Subject: Olds Museum Visit

I took a trip up to Lansing on Saturday 11/9, and visited the REOlds
Transportation Museum.  Worth the trip!!

The exhibits are still being finished/expanded.

A quick summary:

  - approx. 40 cars and trucks (mostly pre-WWII) many of these from the
      teens and before.
  - both REO's and Olds'es
  - 2 '66 Toro's (including #1, a light blue with drk. blue interior,
29K mi.)
       (a truly awesome car, Mike F.)
  - a '68 Hurst (no mention of it being a 4-sd -- see Bryce's link)
  - a Ralley 350
  - a '70 W-30
  - an early 50's stock car
  - 1 of the 1897 Olds'es
  - at least 1 curved dash (1904, I think)

Other things:

  - "Setting the Pace" was available - 30.00
  - The JL pace cars (70, 74, 77) with correct colors were available
       5.00 and included indy winner

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:10:00 -0400
Subject: Setting the Pace

Received mine about 3 weeks ago (OCA membership).  Read through to the
1930-9 section.  Scanned the later sections.  Very interesting, and
just amazing the amount of info from the 1890's.

Just ordered a couple more - one for Dad for Christmas.  $31.80 plus
about $3 shipping.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- --------------------
Hello Everyone,

I have received many requests on how to get a copy of "Setting the Pace,
Oldsmobiles First 100 Years".  If you would like a copy I talked with
the authors today and they should be available at the REO museum in
Lansing, MI within the next week or so.  Their number is 517-372-0529
and the ~cost is $30 with tax and shipping or you can pick one up
yourself and save the shipping cost. :-)

It is really a great resource.

Olds Heidi

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:07:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

>
> I took a trip up to Lansing on Saturday 11/9, and visited the REOlds
> Transportation Museum.  Worth the trip!!
>
Snip
>
> Other things:
>
>   - "Setting the Pace" was available - 30.00
>   - The JL pace cars (70, 74, 77) with correct colors were available
>        5.00 and included indy winner
>
>

Oops - I smacked the send key without signing my mail.


Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:25:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dieselmania

At 04:40 AM 11/13/96 -0400, Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>     That would have to be the 260 V8 diesel.  Used from sometime in
the >     mid-70's through '79 or '80 I think.  I know it was an option
on my >     '79 when I had it (fortunately I had the much more powerful
260 gas >     ;-) in mine).  I don't know much more about these, other
than I figure >     they must have been *really* slow, and they
probably were a bit more >     reliable than the 350 diesel due to the
small displacement in the same >     block.

Our yard gets in many differnet Olds' from the diesel era marked
"Diesel" but they all have transplanted gas engines. If I ever come
across one with the original diesel still in it I think I am going to
stash it in the corner of the yard....may become valuable oneday? Right
now there is a really nice looking 81 Cutlass that  has Diesel badges on
it setting in our yard. I popped the hood and was surprised that I
didn't find the usual Chevy 350, instead it was a Pontiac 455....even
better all the parts ID back to a 73 455 Super Duty! I am keeping my eye
on that one to see if the owner comes back for it or not.... - - - - - -
- - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:34:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

At 01:33 PM 11/13/96 -0400, buehner wrote:
>
>     Oh, yeah, this one's for our Chevy friends!  (Sorry Jason L. I had
to >do this!!!) > >IROC:  Italian Retard Out Cruising >       I Run Over
Children >       It's Really Only (a) Camaro >       ---- ------ ----
--- ------ > >Ooooh, we could make a book.....  :)

There goes Charley again:) What are you going to do if I get rid of my
IROC soon? Can't pick on me no more as I am leaning away from Chevy and
towards a Pontiac. Well I am not Italian, have not run over children,
but yes it is only a Camaro. The way it is running now it feels more
like a Geo. Keep them coming, I like this bit of humor......Honestly it
is not a good day unless I see Charley rip on Chevy at least once:):):) -
- - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:48:41 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Setting The Pace

Better than Bud, I guess!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -----------
The honest truth is that my better half thinks that I am becoming
obsessed with the whole Oldsmobile enthusiasm.

I still working it :-)

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: heater fan motor

Another use of JB Weld is repairing (rebabiting) the blower motor
bearing. I don't know why my brother did not just replace the motor
(too cold for parts yard wrenching?), but it worked.  Not recommended,
but JB Weld could become as useful as The Handyman's Secret Weapon:
Duct Tape.  For some laughs check out www.redgreen.com.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Hesitation Clues, windy, winterization, windy...

At 01:27 PM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Just a comment on the weather here!
>
>Our first snow here in "sunny" "warm" etc, East Tennessee, is still
on=20 >the ground.   I don't think that it has gotten above freezing
(if=20 >it has, not much) in the last 3 or 4 days. >BRRRRRRRRRR Winter
is begun! > >One question while I'm here, in an area that hardly ever
gets below 0,=20 >but does have snow and lotsa days in say the 20's  and
30's, what would a= =20 >proper anti-freeze (I call it radiator fluid
:-)  ) to water mix be? > >Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
>Clayton (getting ready to go broke buying anti-freeze) Pierce,
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu >'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl.
67k miles) >'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts
car} >'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles) >'72 Mercury Marquis
Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles) > > > > A 50/50 anti-freeqe/water mix is
safe in most of the lower 48.  This is old fashioned glycol, not the new
stuff, of which I have no experience.  It should take you down to around
30=BA below zero, maybe a bit lower.  Modern anti-freeze is also
considered a better coolant than pure water too, so you should run it
year round, and change it according to it's manufacturers specs, usually
annually.

Cliff Feiler
Oldsmotorist

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:42:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

Mike Turley wrote:
>
> I took a trip up to Lansing on Saturday 11/9, and visited the REOlds
> Transportation Museum.  Worth the trip!!
>
> The exhibits are still being finished/expanded.
>
> A quick summary:
>
>   - approx. 40 cars and trucks (mostly pre-WWII) many of these from
the >       teens and before. >   - both REO's and Olds'es >   - 2 '66
Toro's (including #1, a light blue with drk. blue interior,          29K
mi.)  (a truly awesome car, Mike F.)

You don't have to convince me!  I already a believer.   :)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:22:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

In a message dated 96-11-13 14:39:21 EST, you write:

<<   Oh, yeah, this one's for our Chevy friends!  (Sorry Jason L. I had
to
 >do this!!!)
 >
 >IROC:  Italian Retard Out Cruising
 >       I Run Over Children
 >       It's Really Only (a) Camaro
 >       ---- ------ ---- --- ------
 > >>

Sorry Jason I have to do this also
Camaro-Ragaro
Monte Carlo- Monte Carslow
Ford - F  over rebuilt Dodge
I have to write this again MOPAR - Must Own Pickup And Rope

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:32:00 -0400
Subject: Engine paint

Hi all,
I sent this in a couple days ago, and didn't see any responses, but with
all the traffic lately, I'm sure it could have been overlooked.  I'm
sending it again, in hope someone has rebuilt a 350 recently and knows
a good source for the most accurate gold engine paint color. I'm in the
process of rebuilding my '69 350 engine and although it's a long way
away from engine paint, I am wondering where to find the best duplicate
of the original gold color on the engine.  Most I've seen is WAY TOO
gold, and I'm sure there has to be something available that is much
closer.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Robert F. Feitt" <RFF@orca.physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:58:42 -0400
Subject: 1977 Cutlass S

I have a 77 Cutlass S in my driveway with 164,000 miles on the
odometer. I'm the original owner(purchased new Feb 1977). Equipped as
follows:

Buick V-6 231
TH350
2.73 10 bolt rear
Front suspension rebuilt in 1992.
   Global West Delrin / Aluminum upper & lower control arm bushings
   Heavy Duty springs
   Monroe formula GP shocks
   1.312 dia. front sway bar
   all new MOOG ball joints. rod ends, center link
   TRW idler arm
   Global West blueprinted fast ratio steering box

Rear suspension rebuilt 1992.
   MOOG variable rate rear springs
   Monroe Formula GP shocks
   rear factory sway bar

I have a 350 Olds engine with a Quadrajet in the garage that I was going
to install. Also have another Buick V-6 with an Edelbrock Performer
Manifold and a Carter AFB 9410.

Tha original transmission has recently failed after 20 years, but I
don't have the energy for the project anymore. I'm considering the
sale of everything as a package. Have all the original paperwork
including the factory build sheet and service manuals.

Anyone interested?

Bob Feitt

Robert F. Feitt
Department of Physics
University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106
(805)893-2740 voice
(805)893-3307 fax
rff@orca.physics.ucsb.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:59:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

I thought there was something to it but I just couldn't remember. Good
thing you were here Katana 72

Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: Katana72@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Flight time!!!
> Date: Wednesday, November 13, 1996 8:16 AM
>
> I have been told by my father, an Airframe and powerplant mechanic for
> Northwest Airlines, and by Ray Hauser, an Oldsmobile Mechanic for over
30 > years, DON"T RUN AVGAS straight !!!!  It can burn  holes in your
pistons. > They say to mix it with premium gas and my experience with
AVGAS is that it > is normally a low lead fuel, so a lead additive might
be in line. I guess the > whole thing is to be a little cautious when
using flight power performance. > > > Katana72         It's NOT your
Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!      Hastings, MN >

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:11:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

Is that '85(I think) Car Craft "Darth Vader" there?  If I remember
right, that's where it finally called itself home.  That's the handling
package car with 16" wheels, dropped, and aero package, five speed, in
dash accelerometer (which I ~still~ want!) etc.  I had the CC article on
my web page 'till Peterson Publishing made me take it down :(  If
anyone's interested, I've still got the scans, and can give more info.
The car could pull .97g!!!  Someday (if it's still there) I ~will~ see
that car!  I doubt they'd let me test drive it, tho!  Sweet car, in and
out.  Car Craft made it without ~any~ chevy parts, too :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:32:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

Charlie wrote:
>
> Is that '85(I think) Car Craft "Darth Vader" there?  If I remember
right, > that's where it finally called itself home.  That's the
handling package car > with 16" wheels, dropped, and aero package, five
speed, in dash > accelerometer (which I ~still~ want!) etc.  I had the
CC article on my web > page 'till Peterson Publishing made me take it
down :(  If anyone's > interested, I've still got the scans, and can
give more info.  The car could > pull .97g!!!  Someday (if it's still
there) I ~will~ see that car!  I doubt > they'd let me test drive it,
tho!  Sweet car, in and out.  Car Craft made it > without ~any~ chevy
parts, too :) >

If you are referring to the "Aerotech" - a single seat race car looking
thing - then, Yes, it is there.  Has HUD, as well, I think.


Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: "Edward O'Malley" <viperle@xnet.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:47:31 -0400
Subject: Re: 1972 Cutlass "s" differential

Edward O'Malley wrote:
>
> I was wondering how to determine the differential ratio in my 72 S.
Is > there a marking on the differential itself?  I think that I saw
either an "QC" or a "QG" stamped on it.

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:04:44 -0400
Subject: HOT ROD Magazine - Awesome Pic

Just got my new Hot Rod Magazine and as I was thumbing through the
pages, what to my surprise is a 70 Cutlass with it's nose in the air
about 4 ft !!! IT' s DEFINITELY NOT Your Daddy's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!!
It's on page 12 and is worth a look !!!


Katana72                 It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!!
      Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:11:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

I try to help, but not always right on some things.  20 years of
aviation experience kinda helps me out sometimes.

Katana72

------------------------------

From: "Robert F. Feitt" <RFF@orca.physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:46:18 -0400
Subject: RCPT: 1977 Cutlass S

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    13 Nov 96  9:58
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: 1977 Cutlass S

Was read at 15:46, 13 Nov 96.


Robert F. Feitt
Department of Physics
University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106
(805)893-2740 voice
(805)893-3307 fax
rff@orca.physics.ucsb.edu

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:58:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch

At 02:52 PM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:

>Re starting your 67 cutlass in neutral, I'd be amazed if your mechanic
was >right that there's no way to start these cars in neutral. I have a
66 98 >and the switch (located at the bottom of the steering column)
works in >both Park and Neutral. I'd be amazed if Olds decided to do
something diff'rent >in the A bodies. > >Cutlass 442 guys? Who out there
with a 67 can confirm that the safety switch >allows the car to be
started in Neutral as well as Park?

These cars, whether a column or console shift, have a neutral safety
switch. It's a safety feature that allows you to not start your car
while in gear and lurch into something (like a wall).  Also , If you
happen to stall the car while driving, you can put the car in neutral
and start it (rather than stop the car (very difficult with power
brakes) and put it in Park to start).

I lost the original post, but the fellow was asking about his switch.
It is more difficult to repair and setup (also harder to find) a console
neutral safety switch than a column one but the good news is that a
column switch will work on a console car. You can use a column shift
neutral safety switch with holding clips which is easy to find and will
never be noticed because it sits up under the dash on top of the
steering column.  You will find that there are some conectors already
near that area for a column shift car.  I forget the wire colors but I
think 2 green and 2 purple??  Anyways, one pair is for the reverse
lights and the other is for the Park and Neutral starting on the switch.
The other leads going to your console for the console lights can remain.
Hope this helps.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:06:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 70 442 W-30 VIN

At 11:58 AM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>          The stock 70 W-30 rear end is a cast iron 12-bolt posi
>          Type-O (see FAQ for distinctions) with a steel cover and
>          steel axle shaft tubes.  The W-27 was an option on the W-30
>          and W-31 (and, I guess, other 442s/Cutlasses?) in 70-72.

>From my documentation, in the '70 model year the W-27 rear end was only
available from the factory on the W-30,W-31 and W-32.  The W-27 cover
(only) was available as a Dealer installed item on the 4-4-2, Cutlass
and F-85. In '71 only the W-27 Cover seems to be available for
4-4-2/Cutlass etc. In '72, I don't see anything by the code W-27 listed
but that doesn't mean that these covers were not sold by the dealer.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:30:33 -0400
Subject: Winter..:(

Hi everybody,

Today was the first day I had to break out the old ice scraper(I hate
winter) If it wasn't for snow skiing I would definetly be moving
south..:)

Anyway, I still have to do some finish work to my Olds and my garage
isn't heated and I was wondering if anyone has installed a heater in
there garage and the pro's and con's of different type heaters(propane,
oil burning etc.....) I don't mind spending a few bucks for a good, safe
 and permanent setup. It will only be used when I am out working in the
 garage, mainly weekends etc..

Sorry about the non Olds post, its just that I want to get my Olds
finished for the spring!!!!.

Thanks

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: sbaker@wiztower.com (Shane Baker)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:47:36 -0400
Subject: Date:	Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:47:36 -0400

Well guys, due to system problems, I have to unsubscribe to the list.
As soon as I can, I will re-subscribe.  It's been a great experience,
and I surely hope to be able to continue to use this list, and help out
whenever possible..


By the way, did anyone ever call those people about the old's that I
wrote about?

- -Shane

shaner@wiztower.com

------------------------------

From: sbaker@wiztower.com (Shane Baker)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:48:17 -0400
Subject: Date:	Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:48:17 -0400

unsubscribe oldsmobile shaner@wiztower.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:07:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter..:(

At 08:30 PM 11/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>Today was the first day I had to break out the old ice scraper(I hate
>winter) If it wasn't for snow skiing I would definetly be moving
south..:) > >Anyway, I still have to do some finish work to my Olds and
my garage >isn't heated and I was wondering if anyone has installed a
heater in >there garage and the pro's and con's of different type
heaters(propane, >oil burning etc.....) I don't mind spending a few
bucks for a good, safe >and permanent setup. It will only be used when
I am out working in the >garage, mainly weekends etc.. > >Sorry about
the non Olds post, its just that I want to get my Olds >finished for
the spring!!!!. > >Thanks > >Steve >71 Cutlass S 455 >93 Mustang LX 5.0 > > > I
assume from your header that you are in Mass. and I assume that you
don't wish to do major renovations either.  I expect that this answer
has some bearing on whether you live by the seaside or not.  It is not
supposed to get as cold near the sea, as inland.  I expect that if you
do not, it will be a major inconvience to make your garage warm enough
to work out their.  I spent some time at Ft Devins, and I remember it
being rather colder than it is here.

The first secret is to insulate.  If you have a garage that is typical
in 90% of the American homes the builder left the studs showing on the
inside. Get some of that pink rolled fiberglass and completely cover the
inside walls, and ceiling.  If you do not you will most likely need as
many btu to heat your garage as you do the rest of the house!

Also, extra, even temporary weather stripping around the garage door
will do wonders.  The magic of duct tape, will usually be sufficient.
Put up a vapor barrier, which is nothing more than a large roll of
plastic.  This goes inside of the insulation.  The only tool you'll need
for both the insulation and vapor barrier is a staple gun.  The next
question is how do you heat your house.  If the answer is gas or oil you
can get a 25,000 to 75,000 btu furnace; similar to those in filling
stations, but smaller.  The people that sell and install furnaces can
advise you on the actual size you need.  You do now want a floor
standing model (for safety, ever notice that in filling stations they
are ceiling mounted?) As a less expensive alternative some people, I
suppose, buy some of those little jap K-1 kersone heaters.  However,
they are usually floor operated, and thereby very dangerous to use.  In
your clime it will likely take two per bay; and the garage will probably
never get toasty, but it will be workable.  A full fledged furnace can
get it to any temp. you desire; but obviously costs more; and may in
fact, (or unfortunately) be the only positive way to go about it.  If
you heat with wood or coal, the impications are obvious.

One other, though probably not too workable plan would be to take heat
from your existing furnace.  This is possible, but probably difficult;
and not necessarily too cost effective.  Again, ask some local furnace
people.

If by some circumstances you have hot water heat (a boiler, but not
steam) you could add radiators in the garage.  This has some hazards
too, if they are not allowed to be on line full time, because you are
not in the garage full time.  They can freeze and break if allowed to.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:38 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

In a message dated 96-11-13 11:13:33 EST, you write:

> If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan
operation? Mine >  simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and
doesn't always operate

>  at low  fan speeds .
>

Ooops.  Sorry, didn't realize you had a noise problem.  Thought it was
strictly a non-functioning problem.  I think the relay controls the
lower speeds and the fuse controls high speed, or vice versa, it's too
long since I worked on mine to remember.  But one or both of these items
can cause blower problems.

Paul

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #366
******************************** 
