To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	12/02/96 01:52:49 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #388


oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 2 December 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 388


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:20:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Grade 8 is great

Robert Lawrence wrote:

> Some of the nuts I have bought have 6 little slits cut into the side
of > the nut, on the face that would contact the washer or the bolt
head. > Does this mean these nuts are grade 8?  Any fastener experts out
there?

Bob,

I just recently installed new exhaust manifold gaskets in my 66 Toro.
Since the original bolts were kaka, I went to my local Olds dealer to
get replacement bolts. There, I got a hardened bolt lesson.

Look at the top of the bolt. You will see lines running (radially) out
from the center of the bolt. Count the number of lines and add 2, that
will be the grade of the bolt.

In my case, there were 6 lines cast in the bolt head (add two) which
means I had grade 8 bolts.

Not sure about all manufacturers, but I got the impression that this was
a 'standardized' if not SAE way of marking bolts. In my case, I got OEM
GM bolts, so I was pretty satisfied thats really what thery were.

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:07:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Dennis Johnson wrote:


Dennis,

> Don't the head lights flip with the grille?

Nope. The headlights are behind the grills. The headlights are static.
The only thing that moves are the covers/grills that slide up in a 45
degree arc to expose the lights.

> Too interested in the motor.

Prolly has the generic 455. But, if it has dual exhaust (notched
bumpers) you may have the RARE W34 option which would be the 455/400?
That motor may be worth investigating. It may not find a home in
another Toro, but some of the 442 gang may be interested in that
particular rocket to launch their machines.

  Did it sound like it had any intrinsic value to you?

The car itself? Dunno...sounds like a donor car to me. But beauty is in
the eye of the beholder (and the wallet)!

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:29:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough meaningless babble

>I'll tell ya what. I may be wrong again,but it sounds to me like this
guy >is putting down the whole bunch of us one more time. Listen,if you
guys have >an argument about engines,bolts or whatever,please send your
mail to the >interested parties,and not to the whole list. Most of the
folks on this list >just want some good info about their cars and don't
want to wade through >pages of meaningless garble from someone who is
obviously much more >intelligent than the rest of us and has no problem
letting us know about it. >Sorry to have to make everyone read this
Non-Olds post, but I think I may >not be alone on this one.....

Blah, blah, blah...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 07:40:55 -0400
Subject: Interchange Materials (3) (Exhaust Manifold)

Here are the exhaust manifold interchanges.  If you have an inline 6,
you are in luck.

Exhaust Manifold - Oldsmobile

'61-'62                             42
'63      R                         388
         L, sgn exh                389
            dual exh               390
'64      Jetstar 88, R             416
                     L             537
         Jetstar I, R              388
                    L, auto trans  390
                       std trans   415
         others, R                 388
                 L, sgl exh        389
                    dual exh       390
'65-'66  Jetstar 88, R             416
                     L             537
         others, R                 616
                 L, sgl exh        461
                    dual exh       538
'67      8-330, R                  416
                L                  537
         8-425, R                  616
                L, sgl exh         461
                   dual exh        538
'68-'69  8-350, R                  416
                L, '68             537
                   '69             699
         8-455, R                  616
                L, sgl exh         461B
                   dual exh        538
'70      8-350, R                  416
                L                  699
         8-455, R                  616
                L                  701
'71      8-350, R                  416
                L                  703
         8-455, R                  616
                L                  702

Oldsmobile F85

'61      8-215, R                   45
                L                  113
'62-'63  8-215,exc Jetfire, R      368
                            L      113
         Jetfire, L                387
'64-'65  V6, R                     411
             L                     412
         8-330, R                  416
                L                  539
         8-400 ('65 442), R        458
                          L        540
'66-'67  6-250                     381C
         8-400, R                  458
                L                  540
'68      6-250                     381D
         8-350, R                  416
                L                  539
         8-400, R                  617
                L                  540
         8-455 (Hurst), R          617
                        L          540
'69      6-250                     381D
         8-350, 2BC, R             416
                     L             703
                4BC, R             416
                     L             539
         8-400, R                  700
                L                  704
         8-455 (Hurst), R          700
                        L          704
'70-'71  6-250                     381
         8-350, R                  416
                L                  703
         8-455, R                  700
                L                  705

Toronado

'66     R                          551
        L                          552
'67-'69 R                          620
        L                          552
'70     R                          620
        L                          706
'71     R                          620
        L                          757

Interchange:

 42  579278-9  R & L  Olds '61-'62
 45  518518 R         exc HD.  Note: B w/1348889 spacer & 9417281
bolt                       fits A.
                      A. Note: Use w/generator 1100393. Olds F85
early                          '61 to eng 610-1506 std jobs or eng
611-1605                          DEL jobs.
                      B. Note: use w/generator 1102242.  Olds F85
late                          '61 after eng 610-1506 std jobs or
611-1605 DEL                          jobs.
113  1193697 L        Buick Special '61-63 8 cyl; Olds F85 '61-63
exc                       '62-63 Jetfire; Tempest '61-62 8 cyl.
381  3918982          Note: B fits A, C fits A & B, & D fits A, B, & C.
                      C. Camaro '67 6 cyl; Chevelle '66-67 6 cyl;
Chev                           Pass '66-67 6 cyl; Chev Trk '66-67 6-194,
6-230                          & 6-250; Chevy Trk ser 10 thru 50, 6-292;
Chevy                          II '66-67 6 cyl; GMC '66-67 6-194, 6-230
&                              6-250; GMC ser 1000 thru 3000, 6-292; GMC
'67                           ser 1500 thru 4500, 6-292; Olds F85 '66-67
6                            cyl.
                      D. Blazer '69-71 6-250; Buick Special '68-71
6                             cyl; Camaro '68-71 6 cyl; Chevelle '68-71
6                             cyl; Chev Pass '68-71 6 cyl; Chev Trk
'68-71                            6-230 & 6-250; Chev Trk '68-71 ser 10
thru 40,                          6-292; Chevy II '68-71 6 cyl; Firebird
'70-7 6                          cyl; GMC '68-71 6-230 & 6-250; GMC
'68-71 ser                           1500 thru 4500, 6-292; Jimmy '70-7
6 cyl; Olds                          F85 '68-71 6 cyl; Tempest '70-71 6
cyl.
368  585396 R         Olds F8 '62-63 exc Jetfire.
387  585062-63 R & L  Olds F85 '62-63 Jetfire.
388  587510 R         cast same.  Olds '63-64 exc J88.
389  589193 L         sgl exh.  Olds '63-64 exc J88 & J/Star I.
390  587793 L         dual exh.  Olds '63-64 exc '64 J88 & J/Star I.
411  1359710          Buick Special '64-65 6 cyl (R only); Jeep CJ &
DJ                       ser V6-225 eng w/1BC (R & L); Jeep CJ & DJ
ser                       V6-225 eng w/2BC (R only); Jeep Jeepster
ser                       V6-225 eng (R only) exc forward mtd steering.
412  1359691 L        Buick Special '64-65 6 cyl; Olds F85 '64-65
V6                       eng.
415  384153 L         Olds '64 J/Star I w/std trans.
416  398704 R         cast 381921.  Olds '64-66 8-330 (Jetstar 88);
Olds                       '67 8-330; Olds '68-71 8-350; Olds F85
'64-67                           8-330; Olds F85 '68-71 8-350.
458  389268 R         Olds F85 '65-66 8-400 (442); Olds F85 '67 8-400.
461  393229 L         cast 384785.  Note; B fits A.
                      A. Olds '65 sgl exh exc Jetstar 88.
                      B. Olds '66 sgl exh exc Jetstar 88; Olds '67
8-425                          sgl exh; Olds '68-69 8-455 sgl exh.
537  393227 L         cast 380145.  Olds '64-66 8-330 (Jetstar 88);
Olds                       '67 8-330; Olds '68 8-350.
538  393233 L         Olds '65-66 8-425 (exc Jetstar 88)dual exh;
Olds                       '67 8-425 dual exh; Olds '68-69 8-455 dual
exh.
539  393185 L         cast 380001.  Olds F85 '64-67 8-330; Olds
F85                       '68-69 8-350.
540  393231 L         Olds F85 '65-66 8-400 (442); Olds F85 '67
8-400;                       Olds F85 '68 8-400 & 8-455 (Hurst).
551  387992 R         Toronado '66.
552  399425 L         Toronado '66-'69
620  395752 R         Toronado '67-'71
616  398708 R         '65-67 cast 384784.  Olds '65-66 exc Jetstar
88;                       Olds '67 8-425; Olds '68-71 8-455.
617  398706 R         Olds F85 '68 8-400 & 8-455 (Hurst).
699  393383 L         Olds '69-70 8-350.
700  402294 R         Olds F85 '69 8-400 & 8-455 (Hurst); Olds
F85                       '70-71 8-455.
701  393384 L         Olds '70 8-455.
702  406301 L         Olds '71 8-455.
703  403453 L         Olds '71 8-350; Olds F85 '69 8-350 2BC; Olds
F85                       '70-71 8-350.
704  403003 L         Olds F85 '69 8-400 & 8-455 (Hurst).
705  406197 L         Olds F85 '70-71 8-455.
706  406201 L         Toronado '70
757  407103 L         Toronado '71

Wow, am I exhausted.  Notice that if you have any trouble getting 442
manifolds, then you can just search for substitute Hurst ones.

Bill Culp
Decatur,
Alabama

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:09:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>
> This is the Toro with the inboard headlights, behind the eggcrate
> grille, and turn signals wrapping around the fender.  Anyone clue
> me in as to the year!

'68.

> Now, what to do with it.  I am going to try to buy the car even
> though I have nowhere to put it.  Would anyone want it?

Dunno.  But if you like I can forward this to the Toro list (in case we
have a few lost souls that are not subscribed here) or you can send it
yourself to toro@armchair.mb.ca

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:54:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Parts For Sale

On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Mike Wolski wrote:

> FYI,
>
> Leftovers from my "Never Quite Made it Back into Drag
> Racing Sale" can be found at:
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/tx/mjwparts

I took a look at this site. There's mention of a built-up 403 for sale
with "thick webs". Is this the elusive solid-web 403 that no one has
seen? Is Chris Witt still offering a reward for evidence of one of these
 varmints? :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:05:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Parts For Sale

In a message dated 96-12-01 14:02:49 EST, you write:

<< I took a look at this site. There's mention of a built-up 403 for
sale
 with "thick webs". Is this the elusive solid-web 403 that no one has
 seen? Is Chris Witt still offering a reward for evidence of one of
these
 varmints? :)
  >>

I just got rid of the thick rib 403.  I got it out of a Toro.  I also
had a 403 out of a 77 Cutlass Supreme that had thin walls.  The thick
walls are exclusive to 76 403 only GREG.  I hope I helped. W Machines
Mark Prince

------------------------------

From: IBDEA@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:35:04 -0400
Subject: Re:  Disc Brake Conversion ('67 442)

I am new to the list.  Need some help as an alternative to the PST kit.
 Heard F-Body spindles and rotors work but haven't been able to find out
for sure what will and what will not work.  Any help will surely be
appreciated!

Bob Peters:   IBDEA@aol.com
'67 442

------------------------------

From: "FRANCES LUCAS" <LUCASFAMILY@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:22:40 -0400
Subject: e-mail messages

I don't want to get spammed!!! Take me off your e-mail list!!!
NOW!!!

------------------------------

From: rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:37:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Grade 8 is great

>I have been told that the only grade 8 nut is a Stover nut, the ones
>with the oblong openings that you typically find on control arm bolts.

About a year ago, I had the question of 'Grade 8 Nuts' come up at work.
I spent about half a day pouring through various MIL and SAE specs and I
couldn't find any reference to the existence of these.

>Some of the nuts I have bought have 6 little slits cut into the side of
>the nut, on the face that would contact the washer or the bolt head.
>Does this mean these nuts are grade 8?

No, I don't believe it does. Those could be some type of manufacturer's
identification marks.

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:34:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough meaningless babble

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> >I'll tell ya what. I may be wrong again,but it sounds to me like this
guy > >is putting down the whole bunch of us one more time. Listen,if
you guys have > >an argument about engines,bolts or whatever,please send
your mail to the > >interested parties,and not to the whole list. Most
of the folks on this list > >just want some good info about their cars
and don't want to wade through > >pages of meaningless garble from
someone who is obviously much more > >intelligent than the rest of us
and has no problem letting us know about it. > >Sorry to have to make
everyone read this Non-Olds post, but I think I may > >not be alone on
this one..... >

No your not alone.  I really like this mailing list but my life is not
dedicated to sitting in front of the computer all day.  It kinda sucks
when I log on at the end of the day and have to weed through 100+
messages half being non olds, babble, or two people running a single
subject into the ground.

Like I said its a great list but it needs some changes.

 George Torch
 62 Dynamic 88
 66 Corvair Monza
 90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:11:42 -0400
Subject: PST suspension bushings

I need to replace my front suspension bushings and would like to know
how well the PST polygraphite suspension bushings work.  Also, how hard
for the shade-tree mechanic to install.  My car is a 70 442 with air
conditioning and a 455 motor.
thanks
Brad

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:16:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough meaningless babble

At 09:34 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dave Paulison wrote:
>>
>> >I'll tell ya what. I may be wrong again,but it sounds to me like
this guy >> >is putting down the whole bunch of us one more time.

>No your not alone.  I really like this mailing list...
>George Torch

No. I, Dave Paulison, did not write that.  Not saying I don't agree with
it, it just wasn't me that authored it.  Thank you.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:18:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough meaningless babble

>It kinda sucks
>when I log on at the end of the day and have to weed through 100+
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>messages half being non olds, babble, or two people running a single
 ^^^^^^^^
>subject into the ground.
> George Torch

You mean messages like the one you wrote??
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:01:48 -0400
Subject: Re: OCA

All listed on my web page - no luck with the VC?




Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:57:00 -0400
Subject: Re: PST suspension bushings

At 07:11 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I need to replace my front suspension bushings and would like to know
>how well the PST polygraphite suspension bushings work.  Also, how hard
 >for the shade-tree mechanic to install.

Well, I did mine about six years ago.  Wasn't really hard, just took a
while...figure on at least a whole day to do it (if you don't have to
take the control arms in to have the old bushings pressed out and new
ones pressed in).  Mine work fine.  You have to use special grease on
'em when you put it all back together, or they'll squeak.  You have to
have some way to press out the old ones and press in the new (if you
don't have a hydraulic press, take them to a machine shop).  When you
tighten the hardware that passes through the bushings, make sure the car
is not jacked up.  The car should be sitting with it's weight on the
suspension.  If you tighten them with the front end in the air, then
lower the car, you can damage the bushings.  The metal pieces
surrounding each polygraphite bushing are bonded to it; you can tear the
bond apart.  Also be sure to check the rear bushing on each lower
control arm.  Some are round, some are elliptical.  You will need to
know which you have before you order the kit (mine has one of
each...wierd!)

You have to know how to take the front suspension apart (tie rods, ball
joints, remove shocks, coil springs, etc).  Oh, you'll have to get a
spring compressor to take out the springs.  !!!*DO NOT TRY IT WITHOUT A
COMPRESSOR*!!!  You will hurt yourself!  You'll also need it to put 'em
back in.  The brake line has to be disconnected, because the spindle/hub
assembly will have to come out.

That's all I can think of...there's probably more to caution/inform you
about, but it's been six years, the memory is foggy...





 My car is a 70 442 with air
>conditioning and a 455 motor.
>thanks
>Brad
>
>
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:56:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

At 04:09 PM 12/1/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>> This is the Toro with the inboard headlights, behind the eggcrate
[snip]
>> Now, what to do with it.  I am going to try to buy the car even
>> though I have nowhere to put it.  Would anyone want it?

Heck, yeah, I would; I've got a '69 that shares many front-end parts
with the '68 (as well as other parts). Where is it, and what would you
be selling?

I'd be particularly interested in:

* Front-end sheetmetal
* Bumpers
* Exhaust Manifolds (Toro-specific parts)
* Transaxle
* Halfshafts/steering parts
* Front-Disc brake setup (if so equipped).

Gee, I could probably use *anything* from the car; again, where is it?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:02:42 -0400
Subject: TH350 > TH400 swap

What changes have to be made to my Olds to put a BOP TH400 short tail
shaft tranny in place of my TH350?  Any driveshaft changes (yokes,
u-joint, etc)? What about oil cooler lines?  Relocation of the
crossmember?

Thanks in advance...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:14:54 -0400
Subject: 71 W-30 Part "WANTED"!!!

Hello list, I have a friend here in MICHIGAN that is doing a full blown
restoration of a 71 W-30.  He has found the build sheet and wants to
restore the car with the correct parts and part numbers.
This is what he needs.
1. 71-72 dual gate with top plate and trans brackets
2. Drivers side NOS fender.
3. Front nos bumper guards
4. The correct "TO" letter code for a 10 bolt olds rearend with a 3:73
gear.

Any informantion sent to me will be forwarded to my buddy Bruce Cotton
immediately.

Please e-mail to me  W MACHINES@aol.com (MARK PRINCE)
Thanks to all in advance.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:21:43 -0400
Subject: Re: TH350 > TH400 swap

In a message dated 96-12-01 19:12:51 EST, you write:

<< What changes have to be made to my Olds to put a BOP TH400 short tail
shaft
 tranny in place of my TH350?  Any driveshaft changes (yokes, u-joint,
etc)?
 What about oil cooler lines?  Relocation of the crossmember?

 Thanks in advance... >>
The th350 and th400 use different yokes. ones fine and the other coarse.
The driveshaft will also have to be modified.  The driveshaft will have
to be shortened. the rear u-joints are the same and the both yokes use
the same u-joint. The cooler lines are aso different.  The th400 are
longer.  The center rubber mount is different and the crossmember has to
be moved back about 1 inch.  Also the th350 uses a kickdown cable,
whereas the th400 is electronic.  The switch is in the trans and the
accuator is connected to the gas pedal inside the car.  The dirrection
of the cooler lines is the same for both trans except the th400 is
longer.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:45:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Ways to keep vandals off your car (Was scratches...)

The Wiz writes:
>Last year I personally saw a Colt .45 do a fine job of crime stopping.
>
>Final score,
>
>Armed robber            0
>
>Armed shop owner        1
>
>The bad guy made it all the way to the street before falling over dead,
100 >feet on pure adrealin.

Another excellent example of gun control...

Definition: Gun Control-The ability to properly hit the target!


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:42:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough Enough

George Torch wrote:
>
> No your not alone.  I really like this mailing list but my life is not
> dedicated to sitting in front of the computer all day.  It kinda sucks
> when I log on at the end of the day and have to weed through 100+
> messages half being non olds, babble, or two people running a single
> subject into the ground.

I have to take some exception to you comments.  The entire discussion
between the "WizKid" and myself probably was less than 10 posts in total
 over several days.  Even counting a few comments from the "peanut
gallery", I doubt it was much more than a dozen or so.

I find it curoius that we can have on going discussions of razor blades
mounted under dash boards and other material of dubious value but I hear
 narry a squeek of complaint.  Yet a technical debate over certain
engine's characteristics and terminology is verboten because it can't be
 traced back to an Oldsmobile plant.

We have had similar spats in the past.  After the last, EVERYBODY shut
up for fear of straying to far from the path and getting bonked over
the head for their foolishness.  One gentleman who complained loudly
several months ago even sent in his own non-Olds post not a week later.

Sorry, but I just can't agree with you.  I wouldn't like to see recipes
for Cutlass Cake posted or how to plant a Toronado garden either but I
really don't see much here to complain about.

And if you're concerned about the beating your mouse is taking from
wacking delete or paging down through those digrsts, let me know.  I'll
be happy to send you a spare.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: TH350 > TH400 swap

Dave,

I am in the process of building up a th400 for my car and this is what I
 have found out about the swap, The th400 uses an electrical "kick
down" switch as opposed to the cable on the th350. Not sure if the
drive shaft is different but the yoke is, my advice would be to buy a
drive shaft out of a th400 equipped car(I just bought one out of a' 70
442 for $25) the crossmember will have to be moved back (my car has a
few sets of holes for crossmember placement, don't know if they were
factory?? as my car had a non orig tranny in it when I bought it). Both
th350 and th400 use the same converter so if you bought a high stall
converter for your th350 you can drop it in your th400 with no mods.
the cooler line outlets are in the same basic position for both
trannys, I had to bend new lines to clear the headers though.....Hope
this helps

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:

> What changes have to be made to my Olds to put a BOP TH400 short tail
shaft > tranny in place of my TH350?  Any driveshaft changes (yokes,
u-joint, etc)? > What about oil cooler lines?  Relocation of the
crossmember? > > Thanks in advance... > -- > Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme > Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS > dpauliso@gate.net > > >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:24 -0400
Subject: Cylinder Heads Interchange

Cylinder Heads - Oldsmobile

'61     Starfire           555
        others             553
'62-63                      14
'64     J88 early          645
            late           681
        others              14
'65     J88                681
        others             693
'66     J88                723
        others             724
'67     8-330              816
        8-425 W/AIR        817
              W/O          921
'68     8-350              819
        8-455              921
'69     8-350              819
        8-455, 2BC         921
               4BC, 365 HP 921
               4BC, 390 HP 921
'70     8-350              920
        8-455, 2BC         921
               4BC, 365 HP 921
               4BC, 390 HP 921
'71     8-350              958
        8-455              959

Oldsmobile F85

'61-63  2BC                344
        4BC & Jetfire      345
'64     6 cyl              642
        8 cyl, early       645
               late        681
'65     6-225              683
        8-330              681
        8-400 (442)        693
'66     6-250, W/AIR       722A
               W/O         722
        8-330              723
        8-400 (442)        725
'67     6-250              722B
        8-330, early       816
               late        820
        8-400
        W/Outside Air Ind  821
        W/O                725
'68-69  6-250              722B
        8-350
        W/Outside Air Ind  922
        W/O                819
        8-400, 2BC ('68)   921
               4BC
        W/Outside Air Ind  923
        W/O                822
        8-455 (Hurst), W/AC 923
        W/O                924
'70     6-250              894
        8-350
        W/Outside Air Ind  925
        W/O                920
        8-455, 2BC         921
               2BC, 442
        W/Outside Air Ind  924
        W/O                926
        exc 442            921
'71     6-250              894
        8-350              958
        8-455, 2BC         959
               4BC
        W/Outside Air Ind  960
        W/O                957
        exc 442            959

Toronado

'66-67                     725
'68-69                     822
'70     375 HP             921
        400 HP             926
'71                        957

Interchange:

 14  584782    cast 583832.  Olds '62-63	
                             Olds '64 exc J88
344  577745                  Olds F85 '61-63, 2BC		
               Note: May substitute 345's in sets.
345  582163                  Olds F85 '61-63, 4BC & J/fire
               Note: May substitute 344's in sets.
553  580419    cast 577608.  Olds '61 exc Starfire.
555  582836                  Olds '61 Starfire.
642  1369427                 Buick Special '64 V6 eng.
                             Olds F85 '64 V6 eng.
645  384462                  Olds early '64 J88 8-330 W/CI rockers.
                             Olds F85 early '64 8-330 W/CI rockers.
              Note: May substitute 681 assy by including push rods
&               rockers.
681  387575                  Olds late '64-65 W/steel stamped rockers.
                             Olds late '64-65 8-330 W/steel
stamped                              rockers.
              Note: May substitute 645 asy by including push rods
&                   lifters.
683  1396787                 Buick Special '65-67 V6-225.
                             Jeep CJ, DJ & Jeepster ser V6-225.
                             Olds f85 '65 V6-225.
693  387573   cast 383821.   Olds '65 exc J88.
                             Olds F85 '65 8-400 (442).
722  3938931  Note 1: B fits A by plugging the water temp switch
hole.                A does not fit B.
              Note 2: Fits 631A, 631B, 647A, 647B & 647C.
              Note 3: On mdls under A & B having AIR the heads
are               drilled & tapped for the air injecion reacctor
tube.                These drilled & tapped heads will fit models not
having               AIR by plugging the holes.
722A cast 3872708        Chevelle '66 6-230.
                         Chev Pass '66 6 cyl.
                         Chev Trk '66 6-230, 6-250 7 6-292.
                         Chevy II '66 6-230.
                         GMC D ser 6-230 & 6-250.
                         Olds F85 '66 6 cyl.
722B cast 3895052        Blazer '69 6 cyl.
                         Buick Special '68-69 6 cyl.
                         Camaro '67-69 6 cyl.
                         Chevelle '67-69 6 cyl.
                         Chev Pass '67-69 6 cyl.
                         Chev Trk '67-69 6 cyl.
                         Chev II '67 6 cyl
                         Chevy II '68-69 6 cyl.
                         GMC '67-69 6-230, 6-250 & 6-292.
                         Olds F85 '67-69 6 cyl.
723  394189              Olds '66 8-330 (Jetstar 88).
                         Olds F85 '66 8-330.
724  394190              Olds '66 8-425 (exc Jetstar 88).
725  396056              Olds F85 '66 8-400 (442).
                         Olds F85 '67 8-400 exc Outside Air Ind
                         Toronado '66-67
816  396054              Olds '67 8-330.
                         Olds F85 early '67 8-330 eng serial prefix W
&                          SW.
817  396055              Olds '67 8-425 W/AIR
819  230341              Olds '68-69 8-350.
                         Olds F85 8-350 W/O Outside Air Ind.
820  230532              Olds F85 late '67 8-350 eng serial prefix W
&                          SW.
821  230369              Olds F85 '67 8-400 W/Outside Air Ind.
822  230343              Olds '68 8-455 4BC 390 HP.
                         Olds F85 '68 8-400 4BC W/O Outside Air Ind.
                         Olds F85 '69 8-400 W/O Outside Air Ind.
                         Toronado '68-69.
894  3977568             Blazer '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Buick Special '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Camaro '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Chevelle '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Chev Pass '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Chev Trk '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Chevy II '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Firebird '70-71 6 cyl.
                         GMC '70-71 6-250 & 6-292.
                         Jimmy '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Olds F85 '70-71 6 cyl.
                         Tempest '70-71 6 cyl.
920  230894              Olds '70 8-350.
                         Olds F85 '79 8-350 W/O Outside Air Ind.
921  230898   B fits A.
                         A. Olds '67 8-425 W/O AIR.
                            Olds '68 8-455.
                            Olds '69 8-455.
                            Olds '69 8-455 4BC, 365 HP.
                            Olds F85 '68 8-400 2BC.
                         B. Olds '70 8-455 2BC, 4BC 365 HP.
                            Olds F85 '70 8-455 2BC, 4BC exc 442.
                            Toronado '70 375 HP.
922  230619              Olds F85 '68-69 8-350 W/Outside Air Ind.
923  230612              Olds F85 '68-69 8-400 W/Outside Air Ind.
                         Olds F85 '68-69 8-455 (Hurst) W/AC.
924  230897              Olds F85 '68-69 8-455 (Hurst) W/O AC.
                         Olds F85 '70 8-455 W/Outside Air Ind.
925  230895              Olds F85 '70 8-350 W/Outside Air Ind.
926  230896              Olds '70 8-455 4BC 390 HP.
                         Olds F85 '70 442 8-455 4BC W/O Outside Air Ind.
                         Toronado '70 400 HP.
957  231252              Olds F85 '71 442 8-455 4BC W/O Outside Air Ind.
                         Toronado '71
958  231250              Olds '71 8-350.
                         Olds F85 '71 8-350.
959  231251              Olds '71 8-455.
                         Olds F85 '71 8-455 2BC.
                         Olds F85 '71 8-455 4BC exc 442.
960  231253              Olds F85 '71 442 8-455 4BC W/Outside Air
Ind.
That's it for the heads form 1961 to 1971.  I hope that nothing special
was left out of the list.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:12:12 -0400
Subject: RE: Toro identity please

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- ----------
From: 	Robert J. Barry[SMTP:rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU]
Sent: 	Sunday, December 01, 1996 5:56 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Toro identity please

At 04:09 PM 12/1/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>> This is the Toro with the inboard headlights, behind the eggcrate
[snip]
>> Now, what to do with it.  I am going to try to buy the car even
>> though I have nowhere to put it.  Would anyone want it? =20

Heck, yeah, I would; I've got a '69 that shares many front-end parts =
with
the '68 (as well as other parts). Where is it, and what would you be =
selling?

I'd be particularly interested in:

* Front-end sheetmetal
* Bumpers
* Exhaust Manifolds (Toro-specific parts)
* Transaxle
* Halfshafts/steering parts
* Front-Disc brake setup (if so equipped).

Gee, I could probably use *anything* from the car; again, where is it?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

Is in eastern South Dakota, just west of you...and a little bit north.
=20 I did not get to talk to the owner as it was Thanksgiving and he=20
was gone.  Car is also knee deep in snow (which I am hoping will=20 melt
before Christmas, otherwise it will not melt until May!).  It is =
absolutely pinned in by cars on each side, hence the reference to=20 the
flat sides.  I am going to try and talk to the owner soon and get=20
some kind of response from him.  Have purchased parts from him=20 before
and he is very reasonable.  This is a step up, however, being=20 an
entire car.  So, who can say.  Will keep everyone posted, but=20 you
spoke first.  =20 With a thousand pounds of ice and snow on it I could
glean very little as to condition.  Hood appears to be good, front and
rear bumpers need rechroming (peeling).  Grilles are broken.  Did not
look at the headlight mechanism as I was holding up a two hundred pound
hood (snow/ice, y'know).  Turn signals were there,=20 but I did not
memorize their condition.  Tail lights are good.  The = windshield and
rear glass held up hundreds of pounds of snow/ice=20 so rear should be
good (otherwise would shatter and thus be gone). =20 Front is unkown.
The side glass is either down or broken.  Entire=20 drivetrain is in the
car, right down to the untouched air cleaner.  If = it=20 is like other
cars in the yard it still has rims on it and perhaps even = hubcaps
(found three on a 55 Chrysler).  Could not see the interior due to close
proximity of the cars on each side.   =20 My e-mail address is
"dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu" if you want to connect directly. There are
other Olds parts there too and I will send those along=20 after I sign
off here. dj - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDFC3.F10E8CE0 Content-Type:
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From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:26:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Dennis Johnson wrote:
  If it
> is like other cars in the yard it still has rims on it and perhaps
even hubcaps (found three on a 55 Chrysler).

> My e-mail address is "dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu" if you want to
> connect directly.
> There are other Olds parts there too and I will send those along
> after I sign off here.
> dj
>

I've said it before, I am trying to start a collection of disc brake
trim rings for Toronados.  I am up to 2 & would like to ascend to 4 or 5
before this life is over.  If there are any of thse trim rings in nice
condition, I'd love to negotiate w/you on them.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> Dennis Johnson wrote: If it is like other cars in the yard it
> >still has rims on it and perhaps even hubcaps (found three on
> >a 55 Chrysler).   My e-mail address is "dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu"
> >if you want to connect directly.
> >There are other Olds parts there too and I will send those along
> >after I sign off here.  dj

> I've said it before, I am trying to start a collection of disc
> brake trim rings for Toronados.  I am up to 2 & would like to
> ascend to 4 or 5 before this life is over.  If there are any of
> these trim rings in nice condition, I'd love to negotiate w/you
> on them.  Bill Culp  Decatur, Alabama

Hi Bill.  I certainly will give it a try.  I will perhaps see it
again at Christmas and hopefully there will be less snow.  We
normally do not have the stuff this early but it seems it is going
to be one of those years.
Toro's have trim rings?  Perhaps you should explain "disc brake
trim rings" to me as I am imagining hubcap trim rings.
dj

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:00:37 -0400
Subject: Heads.... which are better... #5's, or #7's?

As you all know, I've found a few nice items nearby that I am planning
on getting, but I have a question that maybe someone could answer.
Which is better, #5 or #7 heads.  The Olds. FAQ doesn't say anything in
that respect, lists cc. of head as identical.  Obviously the #7's are
supposed to have the larger valves, but have hardened seats also.  Is
this the only benefit of using the newer heads?  If anybody with some
expirience with these heads could help me out, it'd be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:00:44 -0400
Subject: Items found at junkyard!!!!....   Read Me!!!

Yesterday I made another trip to the local junkyard and I found a few
things which may be of interest.  First off though, I came there
interested in a set of #7 heads that I found on my last "hunting" trip
and asked him about prices.  He said heads would start at about $100 a
set (newer ones I think) and go up.  He did also say that he was
suprised cause a few months back a guy came and paid $200 for a set of
Pontiac Firebird high performance heads that were all rusty, he said he
couldn't believe that someone (who came about 2 hrs. to get them) paid
that much for a rusty set of heads.  Somehow I'd bet the guy that found
them has a much better outlook on the situation, and what he paid for
them.  Anyways, here's the list:

One set of "C" heads, in a pile, and of course somewhat rusted from
being outside, etc.  BTW, what're a set of "C" heads going for these
days?  Just out of curiousity.

One Cutlass body (unsure of year) VIN #: 342570M154864, 2 door model,
missing front clip and motor, but had 2 pretty solid doors on it, no
interior at all.

One 2 door Cutlass ('69 I think from what's marked on it) VIN
#:336879M148146, 2 door model also, 2 solid doors, possibly a hood
(didn't look it over good cause it had snow in it, 350 w/out some parts,
but a #5 set of heads on it.

One older convertable (couldn't figure out model, rusted, and no badges
on it), no interior, motor with "C" heads on it.

One Delmont 88, 425 badges on it, motor w/out carb, "C" heads on it,
body missing inner and outer front drivers side fenders, and hood
(didn't see it at least), and busted back window, interior still in
pretty good shape, alot there, not all tore up, dark green
interior/exterior.  Surface rust on it, but nothing major that I saw
off-hand, doors were in good shape, and oh yeah... 4 door....

Older Cutlass wagon, body in rough shape, no interior from what I saw
(didn't go over to it, just looked from the front of the car cause it's
back against the fence), had a #7 set of heads on it, hood on it may be
fine, but again, covered with snow.

The motors I found that had what looked like fuel injection, turned out
to be deisels, 3 as a matter of fact.

That's what I've found so far.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:49:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough Enough

Mike Frederick wrote:
>

> I have to take some exception to you comments.  The entire discussion
> between the "WizKid" and myself probably was less than 10 posts in
total > over several days.  Even counting a few comments from the
"peanut > gallery", I doubt it was much more than a dozen or so.

Never singled you guys in my post.


> I find it curoius that we can have on going discussions of razor
blades > mounted under dash boards and other material of dubious value
but I hear > narry a squeek of complaint.  Yet a technical debate over
certain > engine's characteristics and terminology is verboten because
it can't be > traced back to an Oldsmobile plant.

I feel that posts that deal with ways to keep your car yours do belong
in here.  Eventhough I found some of it interesting 30+ posts on
upsidedown aviation engines seems a little off topic.

>
> And if you're concerned about the beating your mouse is taking from
> wacking delete or paging down through those digrsts, let me know.
I'll > be happy to send you a spare.

My ten year old mouse is getting a little ragged, I'll take a nice new
Logitech :)
>

And just to keep this post OLDS related:

I'm having trouble with my dash lights in my 62 Dynamic 88.  I can't
seem to get them to light up all at once.  One night the right side of
the dash (speedometer) will light up, next night the left side, then
maybe the center.  I cleaned one ground and the lights over the heater
controls have been fine since. Are there multiple grounds for this
intrument panel?

 George Torch
62 Dynamic 88
66 Corvair Monza <<<<<<   180 DEGREE V6????
90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:06:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads.... which is better... #5's, or #7's?

Remember that only the 7a (small capital A) heads have induction
hardened exhaust seats.  Dick Miller once told me that #5 heads flow the
best bone stock un-touched.  It seems that both Mondello and Dick Miller
swear that you have to put hardened seats in to run unleaded gas,
therefore, it is cheaper to use  7a heads which allready have hardened
seats instead of 6's or 5's and have pressed in seats installed.

Has anybody had any problems running earlier heads and unleaded gas
without hardened seats?

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:23:41 -0400
Subject: Re: What year is it?

In a message dated 96-12-01 02:09:46 EST, you write:

> Sparky
>
>  PS. This can be especially helpful in bone yards when the car is
> inaccessible, except
>  for front and rear bumpers where the lenses are located.
>

You'd love it at my favorite salvage yard.  One of the first things they
do is remove the taillights, not just the lenses, but the whole
housings!  Then they cover the holes with plywood to keep the critters
out.  What sense does this make?  He must be wanting to corner the
taillight market.  Must have a partnership with one of those taillight
guys that goes to Carlisle and Hershey.

Paul

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:23:21 -0400
Subject: Re: e-mail messages

In a message dated 96-12-01 16:27:48 EST, you write:

<<
 I don't want to get spammed!!! Take me off your e-mail list!!!
 NOW!!! >>

Not sure what you're thinking, but it may help if you just kindly ask
how to unsubscribe yourself from the mailing list.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 00:32:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads.... which is better... #5's, or #7's?

In a message dated 96-12-01 22:15:55 EST, you write:

<< Remember that only the 7a (small capital A) heads have induction
hardened
 exhaust seats.  Dick Miller once told me that #5 heads flow the best
bone
 stock un-touched.  It seems that both Mondello and Dick Miller swear
that you
 have to put hardened seats in to run unleaded gas, therefore, it is
cheaper
 to use  7a heads which allready have hardened seats instead of 6's or
5's and
 have pressed in seats installed.

 Has anybody had any problems running earlier heads and unleaded gas
without
 hardened seats?
 >>

The ones I found were #7, not 7a, but the FAQ lists both of these type
of heads as having hardened exhaust seats, and both are listed as same
years also.  I think that helps me out in which ones I will want to pick
up from the junk yard (the #7's, especially since they have had the
rocker arm cover on them, so they should be "cleaner" than the uncovered
ones).

Now, one other question, I take it that the exhaust valves are the only
ones which need hardened seats?  That's what it sounds like, but I
figured I'd ask.

Thanks,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:51:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>
> Toro's have trim rings?  Perhaps you should explain "disc brake
> trim rings" to me as I am imagining hubcap trim rings.
> dj

DJ,

The Toro wheels on early cars ('66-68) are usually exposed w/small
hubcaps & trim rings on the outer edge.  The disc brake wheels have a 1
1/2" deep stainless trim ring while the non-disc wheels have a 4" deep
stainless trim ring - much like the more modern "ralley wheels".

A way to tell disc brake wheels is to check the valve stem.  Non-disc
wheels have oridnary rubber stems mounted in a hole in the wheel.  The
disc wheels have a metal stem coming from the center of the wheel & out
the side of the wheel as some truck wheels do.  Therefor, disc brake
trim rings do not have valve stem indentations & non-disc ones have this
indentation.

Some Toro's have full wheel covers.  These are ordinary "big
Oldsmobile"  styles.  They just go over the front wheel drive type
wheels.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:06:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads.... which is better... #5's, or #7's?

At 11:32 PM 12/1/96 -0500, you wrote:
>The ones I found were #7, not 7a, but the FAQ lists both of these type
of >heads as having hardened exhaust seats, and both are listed as same
years >also.  I think that helps me out in which ones I will want to
pick up from >the junk yard (the #7's, especially since they have had
the rocker arm cover >on them, so they should be "cleaner" than the
uncovered ones).

The FAQ has its facts wrong (I believe this error is a direct carryover
from the Mondello/Year One listing).

The 1971 350's used #7 heads, without hardened exhaust valve seats; the
1971 455's used "G" heads, without hardened exhaust valve seats (except
perhaps in W-30 applications; I'm unclear on this one).

The 1972 350's used the same castings as the previous years; the only
difference was that the exhaust valve seats were hardened (induction
hardened, as opposed to pressed-in seats) to deal with the newfangled
unleaded gasoline. Likewise, the 1972 455's used the same "G" castings,
with induction-hardened exhaust valve seats.

To distinguish the hardened valve seat heads from the earlier,
non-hardened seat heads, Olds cast a small capital-letter "A" along with
the larger casting number/letter. This letter is smaller, and down to
the right from the main casting number/letter; hence, it is designated
by the lower-case "a", even though it is cast as a capital "A" (also to
distinguish it from the later 307's #7A head, where the capital A is the
same size as the 7).

I guess since the "A" is more of a revision code, and not really part of
the casting number/letter (unlike the 3A, 4A, 5A and 7A heads on the '77
and later cars), the '72 heads are called "#7" heads officially.

You can use either the #5's or the #7's, and I doubt you'd see much of a
difference between the two. The #5's might be big-valve heads if they
were from a W-31 car (unlikely); the #7's would not be big-valve heads
under any circumstances. Both could accept the larger 2.07" valves, in
any case.

If you are going to replace valves, or port the heads, the ones you
start with are unimportant. Even on the question of hardened exhaust
valve seats, valve recession is apparently not a big problem for
street-driven cars. Though the lead is gone, there are additives in
gasoline today that perform much of the same lubricating function. I put
#7a's on my 403, just because I found them for a good price; I ported
them pretty heavily, so it wasn't worth going for a set of #5's.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:12:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

At 05:51 PM 12/2/96 -0500, you wrote:
>The Toro wheels on early cars ('66-68) are usually exposed w/small
>hubcaps & trim rings on the outer edge.  The disc brake wheels have a 1
>1/2" deep stainless trim ring while the non-disc wheels have a 4" deep
>stainless trim ring - much like the more modern "ralley wheels".

Hmmm, my drum-braked (broke?) '69 Toro would in no way ever take a 4"
trim ring; did they start using the shallower disc-brake rims in all
applications on the '69's? My rims also have the metal stems coming out
from the middle of the rim; of course, this was a wheelcover car, so
maybe that is the reason?

>Some Toro's have full wheel covers.  These are ordinary "big
>Oldsmobile"  styles.  They just go over the front wheel drive type
>wheels.

One note: Though the style is the same, the actual wheelcover is
sometimes different. The '69 deluxe wheel cover on the full-size RWD
cars has an recessed center, which would never clear the rim on a Toro;
thus, the deluxe Toro covers have a center section that is flush with
the rest of the wheelcover. Which is why I've got a later Eldorado
wheelcover replacing the nearly-impossible to find '69 deluxe wheelcover
that fell off sometime during my car's lifetime.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:39:00 -0400
Subject: Re: TH350 > TH400 swap

At 08:02 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>What changes have to be made to my Olds to put a BOP TH400 short tail
shaft >tranny in place of my TH350?  Any driveshaft changes (yokes,
u-joint, etc)? >What about oil cooler lines?  Relocation of the
crossmember? > >Thanks in advance... >-- >Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >dpauliso@gate.net > > What's it going in?  I did
this to a '79 Olds "B" body, but the other's should all sound familiar.

The x-member will probably need to relocated into the rear set of holes
(already there on the car I did), the oil cooler lines to the radiator
had enough play to work without any trouble.  The rear transmission
mount was of a different design, but the x-member

The tailshaft length is not going to be a problem with your job, as you
will be replacing the prop. shaft( at least the slip yoke end).  The
splines/shaft on the TH400 are rather larger, and need the proper yoke.
There may be a hybred cross and bearings that will allow the TH400 yoke
to be worked onto the TH350 propellor shaft.  However, the prop shaft
from the TH400 donor car, I used, was noticeably larger in diameter than
the 350 going out, so an entire 400 prop shaft is a good idea.
ngineering wise bigger is better.  But then again, it may not fit in the
tunnel under the car!

Any good prop shaft reworker can make all of the adjustments you need,
you will however need to know what changed and how much.

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:49:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Hello: If I get up there soon I will look and see if it is a
disc car or not, even if I have to stick my head in the snow...
and that is pretty likely to be the case!
Maybe I'd better stock up on Nyquil...nah, Schnapps!
dj

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:58:48 -0400
Subject: Re: TH350 > TH400 swap

At 08:02 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>What changes have to be made to my Olds to put a BOP TH400 short tail
shaft >tranny in place of my TH350?  Any driveshaft changes (yokes,
u-joint, etc)? >What about oil cooler lines?  Relocation of the
crossmember? > >Thanks in advance... >-- >Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >dpauliso@gate.net > > THIS MESSAGE JUST SENT
ITSELF, IGNORE THE PREVIOUS MISSIVE AND READ BELOW.

What's it going in?  I did this to a '78 Olds "B" body, but the other's
should all sound familiar.  I also don't remember the tailstock length
on either the outbound tranny, or the in; but because of the yoke
differences, explained below; it really doesn't matter much.

The x-member will probably need to relocated into the rear set of holes
(already there on the car I did), the oil cooler lines to the radiator
had enough play to work without any trouble.  The rear transmission
mount was of a different design, but the x-member fit across the body,
and everything worked out.  I think we needed to fabricate an additional
bracket for the x-member/tranny mount support, but I'm a little hazy on
this point, and if this was the job with the little add'l bracket it
wasn't a big deal.  If there isn't enough play in the oil cooler lines,
and you must fabricate new ones, make them a bit longer than the
originals and route them in a way to keep them out of the way when you
are working on the tranny.  A mechanic that worked with me would just
cut the oil lines with a hack saw, about 4" to 10" forward of the
tranny, and remove the stubs inplace with the tranny. He would then put
compression unions on; and splice them after the tranny was reinstalled.
He said it took a lot less time than fishing above the oil pan flange,
when you were attempting to reattach the oil lines to the tranny.  I've
done it both ways, I think the point is moot where the same tranmission
type is going in, but makes it a lot easier to work when the oil lines
need to be relocated anyway.

The tailshaft length is not going to be a problem with your job, as you
will be replacing the prop. shaft (at least the slip yoke end).  The
splines/shaft on the TH400 are rather larger, and need the proper yoke.
There may be a hybred cross and bearings that will allow the TH400 yoke
to be worked onto the TH350 propellor shaft.  However, the prop shaft
from the TH400 donor car, I used, was noticeably larger in diameter than
the 350 going out, so an entire 400 prop shaft is a good idea.
Engineering wise, bigger is better, where prop. shafts are concerned.
But then again, it may not fit in the tunnel under the car!

Any good prop shaft reworker can make all of the adjustments you need,
you will however need to know what changed and how much.  After you have
removed the propellor shaft, but before you do anything else, make a
witness mark at the rear of the TH350 tail stock.  A chalk mark on the
body above the seal end will do.  After the TH 400 is bolted up, and the
x-member is inplace, make an additonal witness mark above the new tranny
end, and the difference between the chalk lines is the difference needed
to be made to the propellor shaft.

There is probably not much tolerance for end play fit, which will
transplate into a prop. shaft of a different length.

The Wiz




------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:03:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough Enough

At 11:42 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>George Torch wrote:
>>
>> No your not alone.  I really like this mailing list but my life is
not >> dedicated to sitting in front of the computer all day.  It kinda
sucks >> when I log on at the end of the day and have to weed through
100+ >> messages half being non olds, babble, or two people running a
single >> subject into the ground. > >I have to take some exception to
you comments.  The entire discussion >between the "WizKid" and myself
probably was less than 10 posts in total >over several days.  Even
counting a few comments from the "peanut >gallery", I doubt it was much
more than a dozen or so. > >I find it curoius that we can have on going
discussions of razor blades >mounted under dash boards and other
material of dubious value but I hear >narry a squeek of complaint.  Yet
a technical debate over certain >engine's characteristics and
terminology is verboten because it can't be >traced back to an
Oldsmobile plant. > >We have had similar spats in the past.  After the
last, EVERYBODY shut up >for fear of straying to far from the path and
getting bonked over the >head for their foolishness.  One gentleman who
complained loudly several >months ago even sent in his own non-Olds
post not a week later. > >Sorry, but I just can't agree with you.  I
wouldn't like to see recipes >for Cutlass Cake posted or how to plant a
Toronado garden either but I >really don't see much here to complain
about. > >And if you're concerned about the beating your mouse is taking
from >wacking delete or paging down through those digrsts, let me know.
I'll >be happy to send you a spare. > >The 66 Toro and Mike > > >--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > Mike,

It was a DEAD after Thanksgiving evening too.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:08:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads.... which is better... #5's, or #7's?

At 11:06 PM 12/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Remember that only the 7a (small capital A) heads have induction
hardened >exhaust seats.  Dick Miller once told me that #5 heads flow
the best bone >stock un-touched.  It seems that both Mondello and Dick
Miller swear that you >have to put hardened seats in to run unleaded
gas, therefore, it is cheaper >to use  7a heads which allready have
hardened seats instead of 6's or 5's and >have pressed in seats
installed. > >Has anybody had any problems running earlier heads and
unleaded gas without >hardened seats? > >Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com >79
Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show >86 442 -> Summer Driver >79 Cutlass ->
Winter Bomb > >

If you don't you will.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:07:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Enough Enough

At 01:49 AM 12/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Mike Frederick wrote:
>>
>
>> I have to take some exception to you comments.  The entire discussion
>> between the "WizKid" and myself probably was less than 10 posts in
total >> over several days.  Even counting a few comments from the
"peanut >> gallery", I doubt it was much more than a dozen or so. >
>Never singled you guys in my post. > > >> I find it curoius that we
can have on going discussions of razor blades >> mounted under dash
boards and other material of dubious value but I hear >> narry a squeek
of complaint.  Yet a technical debate over certain >> engine's
characteristics and terminology is verboten because it can't be >>
traced back to an Oldsmobile plant. > >I feel that posts that deal with
ways to keep your car yours do belong in >here.  Eventhough I found
some of it interesting 30+ posts on upsidedown >aviation engines seems
a little off topic. > >> >> And if you're concerned about the beating
your mouse is taking from >> wacking delete or paging down through those
digrsts, let me know.  I'll >> be happy to send you a spare. > >My ten
year old mouse is getting a little ragged, I'll take a nice new
>Logitech :) >> > >And just to keep this post OLDS related: > >I'm
having trouble with my dash lights in my 62 Dynamic 88.  I can't seem
>to get them to light up all at once.  One night the right side of the
>dash (speedometer) will light up, next night the left side, then maybe
>the center.  I cleaned one ground and the lights over the heater
controls >have been fine since. >Are there multiple grounds for this
intrument panel? > > George Torch >62 Dynamic 88

>66 Corvair Monza <<<<<<   180 DEGREE V6<<<That's exactly correct

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:18:08 -0400
Subject: TH350>>TH400

On other thing on the TH350 to TH400 conversion, the TH350 uses a
kickdown cable, a direct mechanical linkage between the throttle and the
transmission.

On the TH400 kickdown is done electrically, and invloves a switch on the
throttle pedal.

The Rest of the conversion is straightforward and not too difficult.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 03:01:30 -0400
Subject: Another Olds id needed

In the same yard as the Toro are two Olds two-door hardtops
that are basically complete.  One is a 65, I believe, dark
blue, with two tail lights in the bumper with mirror image
tail lights above it in the fender.  Drivers window is down
or broken and the drivers door has a thump dent in it the
size of my head.  Otherwise it is virtually all there.
Does it have any intrinsic value to anyone?

There is a newer one, a Delmont I believe, more of a fastback
roofline than the 65(?).  Virtually the same description.
Anyone interested?

Back window and trunk lid for a 56 Olds.  I had (stupidly)
thought it was a Buick...and I know better.  All this Cutlass
stuff is over my head, I know the 50's cars better (Yes, I'm
old).  I would have already bought the rear window except it
didn't fit into the trunk of my fathers 63 Falcon.  Price for
window and lid is probably $50 each.  Willing to waver on that.
There is another car sitting on its hood so most front parts
are ffft.  No motor/trans.  Doors are there though, all four
of them.

Upper half of 61 Olds grille.  The die cast part.  Lower stamped
aluminum part is dented.  Headlight buckets are ok too.  Big
wraparound back window is there (4 door) as are all four doors
(but cannot remember condition of doors).  Grille, $25.  Head
lights, $15 ea.  Rear window, $50.

dj...who is Olds crazy, or was that old and crazy!


------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 03:38:59 -0400
Subject: enough, enough

> > ...I found...30+ posts on upsidedown aviation engines seems
> > a little off topic.

I thought it meant that there was a lot of interest in the idea...
and it was an Olds engine.

Sure, no one in this group is likely to do that to theirs but I
am not likely to find a Viking either and I would like to know
how much it weighs, wheelbase, unusual features, etc.

As a group we have widely varying ideas as to what is interesting.
I, for example, am likely your fathers age and am not particularly
interested in 442's compared to 30's, 40's or 50's cars (even tho
I tried to buy a red 67 442 sedan when it was nearly new).  I have,
however, stuck it out here for two months, reading about cars I
cannot identify in my head (70's/80's).

This could easily be called cutlass@ rather than oldsmobile but
I haven't gotten my shorts in a bind over it.

I had hoped there would be interest in the 62 Starfire convert I
found, but there was not one reply, an indicator of the average
age of this group, mostly "edu" accounts I suspect (that's what
mine is, but as staff).  And that is fine with me.  This is my
first comment on it...and it is not a complaint either.  It is
just the way it is.

The VW people complained until they split into "air" and "water".
The genealogy people complained until they split into "europe",
"US", "Jewish" and every little ethnic group in the Balkans.  The
modeler complained until they split into air and water and now
want to split into fixed wing and helicopter.  Maybe it is human
nature to customize our surroundings and explain why we are not
living in caves but I would rather not see the criticism get to
the point of the ones mentioned above.

Hopefully my last $.02 on the subject.
dj
Now, about those Viking stats!

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:34:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> Hmmm, my drum-braked (broke?) '69 Toro would in no way ever take a 4"
trim > ring; did they start using the shallower disc-brake rims in all
applications > on the '69's? My rims also have the metal stems coming
out from the middle > of the rim; of course, this was a wheelcover car,
so maybe that is the reason?

Bob,

Hmmmmmmm.....food for thought. But, I would have to venture a guess and
say that you have DBO wheels on that car! Perhaps because of the full
wheel covers....dunno. In 67, only the lip if the rim was different to
accomodate the clips of the Deluxe Wheel Cover. I don't believe you
could get full wheel covers with disk brakes in 67. But, trim rings (of
the drum brake variety will fit either....66,67,68,......). Why this was
changed just for 69 would be odd.

Count the holes in the rim once for me. This may give us a clue.

> Which is why I've got a later Eldorado wheelcover replacing the
> nearly-impossible to find '69 deluxe wheelcover that fell off sometime
> during my car's lifetime.

This may be more likely be due to the fact that disks were standard on
all Eldos. I know I have Eldo wheels on one of my Toros. But they match
up with my Chrome DBO Toro wheels, so there is no difference between
ELDO/TORO DBO wheels. There are subtle differences between all wheels
within the same style throughout Gen 1 and 2, but none of which
would/should preclude hubcap/wheelcover attachment assuming they are
correct and recieving the appropriate wheel dressing. (ie. a 69 Eldo
full wheel cover should fit a 69 Toro if they were both DBO or drum
respectively)

Jeeze....that sounds confusing!  (;

Just slap some Chevy Baby Moons on it and be happy!!   o:

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Blue 'LED' and Other Info

>Steve Ochs wrote:
>>
>> The blue light next to the headlight switch is not shown in
>> any manual, but it is not and LED.  Blue LEDs did not exist
>> in 1987.  They weren't invented until a coupe of years ago.
>
>And are still rather rare -- which is why I was interested.  They are
>also rather expensive.  My catalogs list Panasonic blue LEDs at over $7
a >piece where a typical red/green LED is less than a buck.

Sounds about right...

>BTW, for anyone interested in hardcore electronic parts (connectors,
>displays, etc.), I highly recommend Digi-Key.  A company I've been
>dealing with for many, many years.  Not a discount house but an
extremely >large catalog of first rate parts at reasonable prices.
They now have at >web site at http://www.digikey.com/  (DUH!)

I was thoroughly impressed by them when I was into that sort of thing.
(About ten years ago...)  I know they seemed to be a "with-it" company
back then.  They've got a lot more stuff than just the electronic chips
so many associate nerds with, and as I recall, a lot of it could be
quite useful to even the normal non-electronically inclined folks :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:09 -0400
Subject: Re: '81 Calais Parts

>>One question some of you may be able to answer.  Do the 15' factory
>>cutlass wheels (the body color ones) have the same size chrome rings
and >>center-caps as the 14' factory wheels (again body color). > >The
center caps are the same size; trim rings are a different size.  I
>assume we're talking about SSII or SSIII wheels here... >


Actually...  I'm not sure about the ~exact~ question, here, but yes, the
outer "beauty rings" are different (the round ones..., 14" vs. 15", only
logical...) but the trim inserts on each of the five spokes will
interchange.  In the mid 70's, they changed styles, but either will
work. The center caps are the same, although I've seen a few different
variations.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:16 -0400
Subject: Headlight rocker switch.  Was: Pilfered items from junkyard!.

>I like the "modernized" header panel!
>Clayton Pierce
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
>
>On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Ryan Hehn wrote:
>
>> Andrew C. Green wrote:
>>
>> > Actually, on a 1986 Cutlass Supreme I rented once back then, there
>> > was a little LED installed _in_ the split rocker light switch

>> An LED in the split rocker light switch???  My '86 Supreme does not
have >> this...

Actually, I think that little blue light (actually ~not~ an LED, I'm
sure it's just an incandescent with a blue diffuser.  They (the
electronics industry) experimented with blue Light-Emitting Diodes
(LED's) some ten or twelve years ago, but gave up on the idea.  I've
never heard of them trying again.  It's always been red, yellow, or
green.  Some wavelength problem I guess...  Anyway,  the front wheel
drives had this little blue light between the rocker and dimmers, but I
think it was just a high beam indicator.  I'm not sure.  It seems to me
the whole switch assembly was different, tho. Maybe wider and shorter?
I don't remember offhand.

>> Maybe all the '87s have it though...  Speaking of '87s, who likes the
>> 'modernization' Olds did to the header panel in that year?

As I said in my Cutlass ID post, ~not~ me!  I like the header panel and
the lighting system, but the grilles just look plum out of place in
there.  They do not follow the contours of the header panel, and leave
that big gap in front of the bottom of the grille. (IMHO) :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Exhaust Sounds

Some of the most ~memorable~ exhaust sounds (aside from our favorite
BigBlock Rumble...) came from an old classmate of mine who had a V6
Mustang II with dual exhaust.  Sounded more like an airplane than a car!
(Of course it drove more like a donkey, but...)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:12 -0400
Subject: 78 thru 88 cutlass ID (was: Swapping bodyparts)

Here are some corrections, I don't quite consider myself an ~expert~ but
I see some slight irregularities here :) > >Cutlass Identification
(sounds serious doesn't it?)  :-) > >	Tail Light Differences

'78-80 taillights  (sort-of)

   ----- -----
  |     |     |
  |     |     |
  |    |X|    |
  |     |     |
  |     |     |
   ----- -----

>'81-'83		   '84-'87 ('88 Cutlass Classic)
> --- ---		    -------
>|   |   | Center Line	   |       |  -  is a chrome "rocket"
>|   |   | is a chrome	   |	   | |X| symbol in the center
>|   |   | strip running   |   -   |  -  of the tail light
>|   |   | the length of   |  |X|  |
>|   |   | the tail light  |   -   |
>|   |   |		   |	   |
>|   |   |		   |       |
> --- ---		    -------
>
>
>Grills

> '81 Brougham only
> -------------------
>|---|---|---|---|---|  	widely spaced rectangular
>|---|---|---|---|---|	criss-cross pattern
>|---|---|---|---|---|	the chrome strips
>|---|---|---|---|---|	were thick		
>|---|---|---|---|---|		
>|---|---|---|---|---|		
> -------------------
'81
   -------------------
  |||||||||||||||||||||  Long, thin vertical strips.
  |||||||||||||||||||||  '86 was identical, but taillights
  |||||||||||||||||||||  had changed.
  |||||||||||||||||||||
  |||||||||||||||||||||
  |||||||||||||||||||||
   -------------------
'82
   -------------------
  |||||||||| ||||||||||  Very similar, but with 2 distinct
  |||||||||| ||||||||||  sections per grille.  Can't recall
  |||||||||| ||||||||||  difference for brougham.  I think they
  |||||||||| ||||||||||  kept the same variations as '81, but
  |||||||||| ||||||||||  just seperated them into halves
  |||||||||| ||||||||||
   -------------------

> '83 Brougham
> -------------------
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| 3/4" Squares across entire grille.
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| Once again, uncertain of non-brougham
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| variance.
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
> -------------------
>
>'84
> -------------------
>| | | | | | | | | | | Fairly thick and wide spaced
>| | | | | | | | | | | vertical chrome strips.  I think they
>| | | | | | | | | | | had a smaller vert. bar in between the
>| | | | | | | | | | | bolder ones.  Can't recall offhand, and
>| | | | | | | | | | | really unsure of brougham differences
>| | | | | | | | | | |
> -------------------
>
>'85
   ------------------
  |||||| |||||| ||||||  The '85's were seperated into three
  |||||| |||||| ||||||  distinct sections (per grille)  They are
  |||||| |||||| ||||||  really easy to spot, and are seperated
  |||||| |||||| ||||||  similarly to the '82.
  |||||| |||||| ||||||
  |||||| |||||| ||||||
   ------------------

 '86 (Brougham uncertain...)
   -------------------
  |||||||||||||||||||||  Long, thin vertical strips.
  |||||||||||||||||||||  As said before, identical to '81,
  |||||||||||||||||||||  except for taillights...
  |||||||||||||||||||||
  |||||||||||||||||||||
  |||||||||||||||||||||
   -------------------

>
>'87 ('88 Cutlass Supreme Classic only)  (for sure)
> -------------------
>|||||||||||||||||||||  Narrow and closely spaced vert. bars.
>|||||||||||||||||||||  Flat panels, they did not curve foreward
>|||||||||||||||||||||  with the header panel.  Also had the
>|||||||||||||||||||||  composite headlamps.
>|||||||||||||||||||||  The header panel was also changed
> -------------------   to a more streamlined design this year.

Actually, I didn't like the way the grilles were flattened in '87.  I
liked the composite headlights, and the corner marker lights, but the
gap in front of the grilles looked really out of place.

Going backward, the '80 is very easy, because it's the older body style
('78 - -80) and has four headlights with a flat nose and exposed bumper.
These cannot be confused with the '81 and newer body styles, which have
the "curved" front nose with a half coverred bumper.  The '78-80 have
the more squared taillights, as opposed to the vertical style adopted in
'81, and have the flared quarter panels, and the quarter glass right
behind the door glass.  The '81 up has the three inch pillar between
door glass and quarter glass.

The grilles on the '78 and '79 were unique to each, in that the '78 had
three distinct sections (like the '85, only with a flat panel grill) and
the '79 had two distinct sections per grill (like the '82)  (I think I
have those straight.  I always get those two years confused...)  The '78
and '79 had two headlights, where the '80 and newer all had four.
Incedentally, the '80's grilles had no sectional divisions, but came in
a variety of styles, from vert bars to rectangles, and from flat panels
to grilles that wrapped around the top of the header panel.  (By flat, I
imply that the top of the grille continues to the top of the headlight
trim, and the others stick above it.  Between the Supreme, Brougham, and
W-30's, I've seen many variances of the '80 grilles.  Regardless, it's
still a one-of-a-kind front end, due to the flat nose and four
headlights.


>> << 80's Cutlass' and 80's Regal's doors were interchangeable.

  Really?  I can't say 100%, but it sure seems to me that the body lines
were different.  In front of the mirror where the upper line curves
upward to meet the hoodline?  I didn't think Buick did that.  I'll check
on the next one I see and get back on this subject.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:05:21 -0400
Subject: Re:

>OK then.  How do you get a helium baloon down from a high ceiling?

Uhh, Dart gun?

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 06:09:35 -0400
Subject: OLDSMOBILE SUGGESTION BOX

Mr. Steve Ochs

It was a Boris Bad-enough Sunday.  It snowed Saturday, so I decided to
play a little with my '84 Delta 88.  I went by Auto-Zone and bought some
new lamps from them for the dash.  The only bulb still working under the
dash at least on the drivers side is the one that almost illuminates the
A/T selector dial.

With screwdriver set in hand, and most all day to work on it,  I started
to dismantle the G** D**ed dash board, inorder to install the new bulbs.
Eventually I got to where I could replace two of them.  When your 6'4"
and 245# you don't do well with under dash work, so at that point I
quit.  Put it back together, and even drove it this evening.  I can now
almost see the nearly invisible speedometer, but the rest of the dash
remains complacently dark.

This is directed to you, because, unless I got my names incorrectly
applied; you are a GM employee.  When I was a GM employee (March 22,
1968 to March 21, 1970)(my father requested I work there for two years)
there were suggestion boxes everywhere, and cash (maybe bonds) awards
were made for good ideas.

Suggestion No. 1:  Put all of the under dash illumination on fibre
optic. Put one, substantial bulb under there to drive the fibre optics,
and light the damned thing up.  Make that ONE bulb accessable.  Have the
fibre laid in where necessary; and if they still have any clever
engineers left; many of the light traces could be cast into the
housings.  My 1968 Corvette had fibre optic outside illumination
tell-tales brought right into the shift console.  It was very handy, and
actually worked.

        Savings: Fewer bulbs/sockets/wiring

        Advantages: Non electrical wiring (fibre optics) are easier to
install and make to work than electrical.  Is most likely less expensive
to make, bulbs are expensive; even by the million, and there are no
grounding problems.  Fibre is likely less costly than the copper too.

        Also, you would have a grateful buying public; at least anyone
that has tried to replace those bulbs.


Suggestion No. 2:  Make some part of the dash easily removable; and put
the bulbs right there in front where they can be reached; from above.


If you don't want to put them in, I'll have a friend that works at
Wentzville do it.  He regularly suppliments his income with suggestions.
Of course they may not want underdash suggestions from the Transmission
division!  Let me know.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 07:38:19 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: List Out Of Service

Just as a reminder: CCN is shutting down today at approximately 8:00AM
Eastern time for an estimated 6 hours for system maintenance. Posts will
 likely bounce during this period. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:05:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 1988 Hurst/Olds

From: PHartlieb@aol.com

>> Originally the kit was available in the Spring of 1988 from a company
>>called  Action Products located in Tempe Az.

>I worked for an Olds dealer back then.  These kits were advertised in
>JWO and I showed the ad to my dealer and tried to convince him to order
>one for our showroom.  He wasn't interested, didn't think he'd have
been >able to sell it...

The latest JWO has a picture of this kit on a car for sale.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #388
********************************
 
