To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/17/96 11:27:25 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #303


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 17 September 1996     Volume 01 : Number 303


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:11:26 -0300
Subject: INTRO

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Hey guys,

	My name is Steve I'm a civil engineering student at UNC Charlotte.  I 
ran across this list on Bryceman's Home Page.  My first car was a '70 Nova 
that I got from my aunt.  I spent a lot of time rebuilding that car and now 
only drive it in good weather.  When I started college I was driving my 
parent's '78 Impala.  The car had a rebiult 305 and I began to mess around 
with it.  Added a four barrel, Z-28 rims, Pioneer stereo, and eventually dual 
exhaust with Flowmasters, and dumps.  I had to quit driving it to school 
because of the number of car alarms I was setting off.  Actually, my brother 
is getting this car in a couple of years and I bought myself an '86 Cutlass 
442.  This car has been great other than a slight annoying vibration I've 
still got to find.  It is my everyday car and will be for the next couple of 
years.  
	I was on the list some last year, but had to quit to go home for the 
summer.  I've found a lot of useful info. on here and hope to be of some help 
to others sometime.

Sorry I wrote so much,

Thanks,

------------------------------

From: o455 <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:11:29 -0300
Subject: NEW MEMBER

Greetings:
          Just Listing my self as a new member and enjoying all the mail 
i have been lookinbg at,so i thought i would say hey...
          The common thing is to list your vehicles so o.k.
         
      1969 cutlass s (f-85
      1982 cutlass supreme (converted 455 big block)
      1978 chevette (yep chevette)
      1986 chevy nova (nothing like the old ones)
  
           thanks a bunch........       jim

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:21:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: keep_one_list

David Brown wrote:
> 
> I applaud Mike for starting the Toro list...

Well... I think credit should be given where credit is due.  While Sparky 
and I initially discussed the idea of the Toro mini-list, he was prolly 
the one who sent the first "official" mini-list message.  Then it was 
Dave Voorhis who set-up and is administrating the list server.  I'm just 
kinda taking care of the odds and ends -- like the registry.

But thanks for the applause, anyway.  You can all sit back down now.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:34:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Hibeam Relay

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> Does your 66 Toro have this hi beam problem? 

No.  As a matter of fact, I've never had this problem in any of my cars 
- -- at least not B.S. (Before Sparky).  I still think you must have a 
wiring problem there somewhere but that doesn't mean that adding a relay 
isn't a good thing.

I don't have a wiring diagrahm handy, but since the lamps are wired with 
one side gounded and the 12V the hot from the switch, the following 
should do the trick:

  [12V from battery]------[FUSE]---|
                                   |
  [12V from switch]-----|          |
  (did run to lamp)     |          |
                        |          |
                        --)        |
                          )  =------
               RELAY COIL )  =---------------> 12V to HIGH BEAMS
                          )  ^Normally Open 
                        --)     Contacts
                        |
  [GROUND]--------------|


> Also can I use one 40 amp relay for the whole system to keep it simple?

Sure.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:41:56 -0300
Subject: FW: Engine Hoist etiquette (w/semi-clever remark attached)

Hear ! Hear !  Great tip !

( ok, so I've used my me, too allottment for the month...)

Frank Boerger

>And another suggestion from the Been There/Done That Department for >when
>you're all just starting the process of lifting the thing out of the car:
>Shut Up. Keep quiet, turn off the radio blasting in the background, and
>when something is about to snap and drop the engine back down, you >_might_
>hear a little creaking or groaning beforehand. Any little advance warning
>is better than none at all...

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:17:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Salvage Titles

In Tennessee, as far as I know, you aren't allowed to drive a salvaged 
title car.  You have to apply for (I forget the actual terminology) a 
rebuilt title.  To get this, you must have the car inspected, have 
available all receipts for anything you have changed, and must include a 
reason in a letter to the D of T asking to rebuild the car (even if it 
doesn't need rebuilt).  It is a fairly long process involving a LOT of 
legal ret tape.  At least Tennessee is real lenient on motor swaps though.
Read the note earlier on Alabama, maybe I'll have to drop down and look 
at some j-yards sometime :-)  

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:11:54 -0300
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER 

>Greetings:

>      1986 chevy nova (nothing like the old ones)
     
          ACK!!!  You mean they got ~worse~?!!!
                                 

     Oh yeah, welcome aboard!   :)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:43:00 -0300
Subject: Chicago Area Members' Lunch Report 

We had two in attendance just now: Me and David Wilk. Venue was
a nice Mexican restaurant at... uh... Ashland and Division, wasn't
it? The restaurant came with no documentation so we had to figure
out how to operate it first:

ME: (under sign reading "Pay for Orders Here"): I'd like a chicken
burrito and--

CASHIER: Order over there. (gestures in direction of cook)

We wander over to the next counter where the cook is furiously
putting orders together, and stare at him for inspiration. After
a minute he realizes that we are not going to go away:

COOK: Takeout or Eat In?

ME: (brightly) Eat in, please!

COOK: (gesturing behind us with irritation) Sit down.

Ah! Tables! We're supposed to sit at them! And they have a lady
who comes over and takes your order! What a concept!

Once we'd mastered that, lunch went very well (although I have
detected some backfiring problems this afternoon). The usual
Olds topics were discussed, we commiserated over not being able
to find the right cars just now -- if you have an Olds for sale
that David might be interested in, send it over -- come to think
of it, he needs a house, too, while you're at it -- and a fine
time was had by all. In keeping with the way things had been
going up to that point, I made a U-turn after dropping him off
and discovered I had driven the wrong way down a one-way street.
That explains why none of the stoplights at the intersection were
facing my way...

Seeing as we actually have several members in the Chicago area,
we should try and organize something involving more than 2 people
sometime, but this was a good start at least. Just don't put me in
charge of anything important.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Frank Iezzi <fiezzi@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:53:35 -0300
Subject: need 69 Cutlass 'S' hood

Hi guys,
Don't post much as I only read the list when I can after work. To
make a long story short, Someone
hit my 69.  I need a hood, rust-free preferable, a BIG plus would be nice
chrome at the rear of the hood (vent for cowl area).
I'm in the Columbus OH area (FWIW) - any help appreciated.
Frank
PS. Sorry for send orig e-mail to the digest (mea culpa)
  

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:33:44 -0300
Subject: 66 98 Wiring 

Ah, field engineer, *that* explains the practical nature of
your posts! Thanks for the wiring tips. 

I cleanly (soldered, shrink tubing on everything) cobbled together
one factory harness out of the 3 or 4 I had lying around. Along
the way I modified it to handle both an internally regulated 
alternator, HEI and Electric Choke on the motor side. I'm running
a 10 guage wire to the HEI and choke. Will that give them max
amperage? Any safety considerations I need to be aware of here?

On the dash side, I've modified it to accept the Starfire tach
lighting, cruise control lighting (and power to the cruise
system, but that's real easy). I'm also hooking in my guages
which hide in the glovebox for factory look and cleanliness.

Before I go messing with the lighting system, I think I want to
see if these changes help the factory solution. If not, then I'll
wire in the relay. Does that sound good?

Also I was thinking I might not want to put all the fuses in 
when I initially fire the car up. I thought incremental testing
of the various systems might be a smart idea. What do you think?

More fun to come!
cf

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:42:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: keep_one_list

Mike Frederick wrote:

> Well... I think credit should be given where credit is due.  While Sparky
> and I initially discussed the idea of the Toro mini-list, he was prolly
> the one who sent the first "official" mini-list message.

Actually, even more initial to that, I discussed the idea with Gregg Ludlam 
before I 
even knew there was an Olds list and before I met Mike Frederick. Years ago we 
called it 
the Toro Club. It never really went anywhere because we were scattered all 
over without 
a major dummy set up or a common place to meet. 

> Then it was Dave Voorhis who set-up and is administrating the list server.  
I'm just
> kinda taking care of the odds and ends -- like the registry.

Yes, by all means, Dave is a major factor why we have a Toro List! Mike also 
has put in 
long nights sweating over the registry and guidlines for us. 

Actually, beyond the original concept, my contributions have been next to 
nothing 
regarding the list and the maintainance thereof.

However, when I get my flatbed scanner (this week I hope). I will be 
collaborating with 
Mike and Dave as we start our own version of Toro FAQS, pictures, color chip 
charts, 
historical perspectives, and odds and ends. We have been discussing the 
possibility of 
having certain parts of the shop manual scanned and posted for those 
re-ocurring, 
troublesome, Toro problems like headlight trouble shooting, boot replacement, 
etc. 

Because I have mucho literture, shop manuals, and articles, many things could 
be scanned 
and posted on a demand basis, pertaining to a new specific area. These will 
then be 
archived and available for everyone.

As long as I am rambleing (sorry bandwidth police), I also feel the list 
should not be 
divided any further. As I have said before, the Toro list was started more out 
of 
respect for the Olds List than to compete or break from it. We have more 
unique 
(specialized) problems with our Michigan Metal than do the others and clogging 
the 
general list with our banter just added to the number of posts that few felt a 
need to 
read or reply to. Thats not to say that we (Toro Guys and Girl) don't jump on 
the Olds 
list from time to time with our more general questions. Quite often I am 
compelled to 
refer to the Olds list for things and I am glad it is there for that greater 
diversified 
pool of knowledge and experience. 

It also works the other way too when that occasional Cutlass/442/88 person 
comes across 
a Toro and gets the virus. In reciprocation, we are glad to help!

Although small, we are quite proud of our little group. We can only hope to 
someday 
aspire to the ranks of the Olds list in size and notariety. (we're working on 
it 
thought)  (:

Sparky 

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:40:13 -0300
Subject: MacGyver Lives (loosely Olds related) long

So I'm up and ready to leave the house this morning, when I open the door to 
the
garage, and say to myself "Self, you got to clean this place !!"  I realize
that, in order to make it to my "go-to-work-Buick",  I must, at a minimum, 
while
holding my laptop case and my mobile coffee mug, push the "door down" button,
move at a spritely gait through the Olds guts, past the Deere, and duck my head
before the swiftly closing door decapitates me.  So I prepare for the mad
dash..( I even "rock in the blocks" so as to gain sufficient forward advance,
preparing to push off of the door button)....and ...I make it !!  

Joy...Rapture...then it dawns on me, as the door is softly nestling its weary
seal against the concrete, that my daughter borrowed my keys last evening, 
which
are now on the kitchen counter, which is next to my shopping list for the day,
at the top of which is a note that reads "Buy new Garage door opener 
battery"...

So after about 5 minutes of thinking...which window would be the least costly 
to
replace in the event of breakage...I decide to look at the opener battery, 
maybe
spin it around a few times, clean it's tiny chrome terminals, maybe eak out 
just
one more digi-burst.....no dice.

So I'm looking at this battery, gosh it's kinda different...when Lo and behold,
I see that it says "12V" on its side.  Well, let's see if there are any "Olds
related" wires in the bushes (which is where I stash anything that I really
don't have storage space for in the garage)...rats! No wires...(or Wa-ahrs in
the local vernacular)...but there is one piece of left front '68 fender eyebrow
trim that... just... might... reach... from... the... positive.... 
terminal.....
of the car battery...to the ....other...terminal of the garage ...door
transmitter.....Viola !!  While depressing the go button, holding the + 
terminal
of the transmitter to the hot battery post, and using the fender trim to jump
from the battery - post to the transmitter - battery terminal, the door begins
to rise.

Bought a new battery @ R/S at lunch, but I felt s-o-o-o-o-o good about the 
whole
thing, I just had to relate it.  Sorry if there wasn't much Olds related in it.

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee, FL//'68 C/S Convertible//'68 C/S Coupe for parts.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:43:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring 

>Also I was thinking I might not want to put all the fuses in 
>when I initially fire the car up. I thought incremental testing
>of the various systems might be a smart idea. What do you think?

A noble thought, but, well, that's what the fuses are for. Either
you have a supply wire shorted to ground before the fusebox, in
which case all the fuses in the world won't help, or the fuse pops
as soon as the battery is connected or the accessory is switched
on, in which case you know you have a problem as soon as you notice
the blown fuse.

And frankly, I prefer to have the fuse pop by itself, as opposed to
while I'm still trying to push it into the holder, my fingers are
pressed against it, there's a nice little spark, the fuse goes *POW*,
I jump a mile, etc. You get the picture.

Plug in all the proper fuses, or .22 calibre bullets if fuses are not
available (today's Resto-Tip), hook up the battery and hope for the
best. Hiding behind a stout workbench is recommended.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:13:03 -0300
Subject: Re: MacGyver Lives (loosely Olds related) long

Frank Boerger wrote:
> 
> While depressing the go button, holding the + terminal of the 
> transmitter to the hot battery post, and using the fender trim to jump
> from the battery - post to the transmitter - battery terminal, the door 
> Begins to rise.

I'm proud of ya, me boy!

The 66 Toro and Mike



- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:20:12 -0300 
Subject: RE: Olds Racing: Epilogue

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com

>Ahhhh, the smell of burning rubber.  Nothing like it.

Yeah, and tonight I get to scrape all that junk off my quarter panels. :-)
I've seen some people smear past wax on before hand.  Does this make
it easier to get the rubber off?

- -Jeff

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:20:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Members' Lunch Report

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I made a U-turn after dropping him off and discovered I had driven the 
> wrong way down a one-way street.  That explains why none of the 
> stoplights at the intersection were facing my way...

Yet another Honor Graduate of the 
Kalkhoff School of Creative Driving!   :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com (Brett Chaveriat)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:08:06 -0300
Subject: Chicago Area Member's Lunch

     
        Andrew, I like your idea of getting the Chicago area folks 
     together.  I travel a lot, so I am not a good candidate to schedule 
     it.  Any others interested?  Anybody interested in setting it up?
     My preference would be for dinner or weekend, as we probably work in 
     many different areas.
     
     Brett Chaveriat                                    Arlington Hts, IL 
     brett@actel.com
     72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.
      

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:26:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Member's Lunch 

>        Andrew, I like your idea of getting the Chicago area folks 
>     together.  I travel a lot, so I am not a good candidate to schedule 
>     it.  Any others interested?  Anybody interested in setting it up?
>     My preference would be for dinner or weekend, as we probably work in 
>     many different areas.

I agree. This was probably a boneheaded suggestion on my part as far as
the very near future; I'm traveling the end of this week and next, and
I think David was also, so if some interested parties speak up, we'll
probably have to take this to email and send everyone's schedules to
each other or something like that. Let's see how many people raise their
hands over the next day or so...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:45:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

> 
> Greedy insurance companies?  Government screwing things up?  Geez, man,
> where do you get these ideas?   ;)
> 
> I love the "high risk pool".  Many places have a pool of insurance
> companies who insure drivers who can't get regular insurance.  Sure, some
> are DUI's and so on but it seems that just about any reason at all is
> enough to get you in the pool -- like not having insurance!  So the same
> companies that refused to insure will now insure at 2 or 3 times the
> regular rate.  That's fair...
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> 

Mike,

Sometimes I think that the only thing worse than government control is 
free enterprise control.  Government control is just my last resort when 
free enterprise won't behave itself any other way.  Creating a need & 
then meeting it is the American (Canadian, Finnish, etc.) way.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  Do you want to hear about the lawyers & doctor's we indited on 
the grand just last week?

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:56:05 -0300
Subject: Power Antenna

Would any know how to repair the motor for a power antenna. Well,it's not
really the motor,because the motor spins fine. But the mast was corroded and
would not slide easily and it seems that the nylon wire inside the antenna
fell off the motor. The mast and the motor have been cleaned and tested,but
the mast will not move. I tried to split the case of the motor to get to the
nylon wire side, but don't know how to split the case. If anyone has done
this before,could you let me know how? Thanks.....

Brad  '68 C/S Convt with no radio for now....

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:01:44 -0300
Subject: Johnny Lightning 1/64 cars 

I was at a local Hills Department store yesterday and saw some neat stuff.
This may have been discussed before, if so I am sorry I have not been
keeping a close eye. They have 1/64 indy pace cars packaged with the winner
from that year. They had a 1970 442 , 1974 H/O and 77 Delta 88 each packaged
with the winner from that year. A neat little thing. Each 2 car package was
$5.97. A little uncorrect though. They had the 74 H/O painted light blue.
The Delta and 442 were painted correct though. 

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:01:50 -0300
Subject: Introduction (re-intro of myself) 

Well I have been on the list for little over a year and introduced myself
before but I will do it again for the new members. And anyways it seems like
the trendy thing to do as of late:) 

I am Jason Labay, 24, and a second year graduate student in Sports
Administration at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio (south of Cleveland).
I graduated May 1995 with a B.S. in Marketing. Ok the reason for the B.S. in
Marketing/M.A. in Sports Administration??? I want to go into motorsports
marketing or something in the motorsports field. Currently I am an intern at
the Kent State Athletic Business Office and a Valve Rototor Assembler at the
TRW Rotator Assembly Plant. Two jobs and classes at night= one busy man. 
I guess you can say my love of Oldsmobile came by default, but bewarned I am
a Chevy man too and the following paragraph proves this:) . My family owns
the oldest towing company in Ohio and fifth oldest in USA, established in
1926. I will be the first generation of my family not to work there and
branch out:( Having a towing company leads to some neat benefits for those
into cars. When I was young my family had a 73 Cutlass 455 with a 3 or 4
speed manual, I forget.  When I was 16 I took a 1979 Cutlass Supreme w/ 305
Chevy that had minor front damage out of our yard, fixed it up and made it
look very good for a beginners project. The 305 Chevy was built up and had
no trouble keeping up with the late 80's Z/28's and Mustangs....handling
though was its downfall. Got rid of that and got a 1985 Chevy Astro Van out
of the yard, again front end damage. Replaced the original 4.3 Chevy with a
much reworked 4.3 Chevy Turbo from a GMC Typhoon that rolled 9 times. A REAL
sleeper van. This baby could flat out fly. I wish I never got rid of it.
Only lost one street race ever in that thing to a 70 Nova 454 with a roots
supercharger. Never took it to the track but would suspect high 13's even
with the tall profile. Sold that and got a 1987 Chevy B4C Impala out of the
yard. B4C was the cop car version of the Caprice. Had an underpowered Chevy
350 but still got out of its own way. Next car is my current car, a
pieces-parts salvage yard special 88 Z/28. It is so unoriginal an
originality freak would fall over dead looking at it. It has a Cross-Fire
Inj. 305 Chevy. My 75 H/O is a towyard find and is being completely restored
now. The 74 Riveria is my newest yard find for winter use. My pride and joy
is the car I purchased on Aug 12th of this year, the 80 442 W-30. This is my
dream car in a round about way. I always wanted a 79 H/O. Well the 80 442 is
essentially the 79 H/O minus the badges and dual gate. The 442 sets in the
garage and only sees the roads when the sun is shining. 
So really all I have are junker cars out of a junkyard:) I average 2-3 cars
a year, fix em up and sell them at Swap Meets. Next cars will be an 81 Z/28,
71 Delta 88 and 86 Vette....all of them can't wait to be sold at next years
Randolph Swap Meet in Ohio:) I have amassed a good collection of parts over
the years, in fact nearly two trailers full. I also am into car audio. Got
tons of radio's, speakers, amps setting around. Astro Van once had an 1100
watt system. Z/28 has a 750 watt system now. 442 has 5 watt factory 8-track
system and is staying that way. Other things? I procrastinate too much and
party WAY to much ( a college thing I hope I outgrow) 

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:01:47 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Comp. Tape for 83? 

While going through the junkyard today I found an Oldsmobile Complimentary
Tape Cartridge. The tape and cover are in great shape, the outer plastic
jacket is worn but those can be replaced. Copyright dates are 69, 77, 82 and
83 so I assume this is a 1983 Tape? Any value in something like this? Never
seen one before. 

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:58:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> I'm running a 10 guage wire to the HEI and choke. Will that give them 
> max amperage? 

You know, somewhere around here I've got a table of wire size to 
amperage rating but I'll be damned if I can find it.  Andy?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:05:44 -0300
Subject: Talk about a find. 67' W-30 questions

I bought a '66 442 Con. today for $1000.  The car has been sitting out
in the elements for 2 years with the top down.  There are no floor
boards to speak of and the interior is in prob. the worst shape I have
ever seen.  It has the original engine but is missing the carb.  I
bought it just to get the frame (which is perfect).  The guy that sold
it to me didnt have the keys.  When I got it home I popped the trunk lid
with a crow bar.  Sitting there looking up at me was the original Qjet
4bbl w/ original chrome air cleaner and a tri-power intake complete with
carbs/foam air cleaners :)

I have a 1967 442 Convert. 425/4-speed/4.11 posi.. If I put the "E" 400
block in it from the 66 will there be any way to tell it's not the
original 400? Assuming I swap the "B" heads for whatever head came on
the '67.  

Also seeing that the "W-30 Track Pack" could be dealer installed in 1967
how hard would it be to duplicate this option in my car?  Correct me if
I'm wrong or if I fall short, but I think I would need to:
install the tri-power setup
paint the inner wheel wells red
relocate the battery to the trunk
modify the plates that the headlights mount to to accept duct work for
ram air
fabricate/buy a ram air air cleaner 

Anyone know where I can find a picture of the 67 engine compartment w/
the track pack?

Thanks,
Ken

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:16:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Member's Lunch 

Sounds like a good idea!  So far I have

David Wilk          ???
Andrew Green        acg@dlogics.com
Brett Chaveriat     brett@actel.com
Jeff Easton         Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
David Brown         dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ---------------     
        Andrew, I like your idea of getting the Chicago area folks 
     together.  I travel a lot, so I am not a good candidate to schedule 
     it.  Any others interested?  Anybody interested in setting it up?
     My preference would be for dinner or weekend, as we probably work in 
     many different areas.
     
     Brett Chaveriat                                    Arlington Hts, IL 
     brett@actel.com
     72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:16:00 -0300
Subject: RE2: Olds Racing: Epilogue

<<I've seen some people smear past wax on before hand.  Does this make
<<it easier to get the rubber off?

Never tried it , but it sounds like it would help.  It took me a while to 
get it off my 442, when I ran it at the strip, but I didn't try the wax 
thing.  Let me know if it works.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:23:07 -0300
Subject: Shop Your Insurance 

Guys,
I just can't keep quiet on this one. I used to be an underwriter and
now work for a company that builds systems to estimate claim risk for
auto and home insurance. We're trying to replace judgemental underwriting
with automated decisioning based on statistical fact rather than 
mythology and folklore.

Having been at this for 7 years looking at both US and Canadian auto 
insurers (+some UK, German, etc.), mostly the system works where free 
enterprise is allowed.

That is not to say that people don't get scr*wed on claims now and 
again or that prices aren't too high. Lowering prices is what I'm 
hoping to do through the use of our tools.

I don't defend the industry much, but you should hear some of the claim 
fraud stories, that we all end up paying for. My main message here
is SHOP Around. Premium variance for your profile may vary by 2 or 3 times. 

Chris Fair

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:22:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease on Metal

brett@actel.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>         I understand the problem of getting silicone on metal prior to
>      painting.  I encountered this when re-finishing a grand piano. A
>      previous owner had polished it with products containing silicone.  I
>      was applying a clear urethane lacquer finish.  I used an additive that
>      solved the problem.  It was called something like SilFlo.  I mixed it
>      into the lacquer I was applying.  It had silicone in it.  The idea was
>      that once silicone is present, you must use it in subsequent finishes
>      that are applied.  It worked perfectly.
> 
>         I do not know if this type of thing would work for paint or not.
>      The product was made by Star Chemical out of Chicago.  They do not
>      normally sell to the public, tho.  Does anybody have any experience in
>      use of such a product to overcome the presence of silicone?  It might
>      save some people a lot of grief.
> 
>      Brett Chaveriat                
> Brett,

An auto painter told me the same thing about putting silicone in the 
paint to combat the fish-eye that comes w/use of Armorall like 
producats.  I forgot what he said that was used, but a good paint supply 
place should know.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:28:37 -0300
Subject: Power Antenna 

Brad,
There are guys who rebuild such things in Hemmings or go to a local junkyard
and get one for $20-30. Unless you're concerned about originality.

'Nuther question, should be common to many of us:

How do you straighten a bent mast or at least the larger hollow segments?

I have the same problem with my speedo cable housing: kinks

How do you get the kinks out of a speedo cable housing. You can get the
cables new from AC Delco.

cf

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:28:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring 

>You know, somewhere around here I've got a table of wire size to 
>amperage rating but I'll be damned if I can find it.  Andy?

Yeah, it's under the stack right there... no, no, the other one...
look to your left... down a bit... yeah, there. Well, that's where
it was last time, anyway. I _told_ you last week to get this place
cleaned up before Chris called.

My guess is that 12 gauge would be enough; 10 gauge won't hurt but
is kind of a pain to work with. And no, you can't use the little
blue connectors on it; you have to get the equivalent in yellow
(10-12 gauge size).

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:31:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Chicago Area Members' Lunch Report

<<a nice Mexican restaurant at... uh... Ashland and Division...

Andrew,

Hey I've eaten at that restaurant.  They've got pretty authentic Mexican 
food, and their chimichangas rule.  The food was great.  Hey, I'm not sure 
if you are up for traveling south, but the Archway Olds club here often has 
car shows in Illinois.  Most would be about a 4 hour drive for you, but we 
often have good turnouts.  If you are interested, I'd be glad to keep you 
posted.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:50:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease on Metal

  Bill Clup wrote:

> An auto painter told me the same thing about putting silicone in the 
> paint to combat the fish-eye that comes w/use of Armorall like 
> producats.  I forgot what he said that was used, but a good paint supply 
> place should know.

My brother and I used this stuff when we repainted my car in June.
It's called F-E-E or Fish Eye Eliminator. There are different formulations
depending on what type of paint is being used.

It's pretty neat stuff. Cured the fish eye problem completely.

We had used acrylic lacquer paint. Of course, the whole paint field
is changing fast due to new pollution regulations. My brother had planned
to use a certain combination of base/clear coat, and when it can time
to do the clear coat, that type he had in mind was no longer available.
Should have checked that before we started.

- - Paul Elosge

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:46:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Introduction (re-intro of myself)

<<I am Jason Labay, 24, and a second year graduate student in Sports
<<My family owns the oldest towing company in Ohio and fifth oldest in USA,
________________________________________________________
Jason,

I envy your resources.  I probably speak for a lot of the subscribers.  I'll 
bet you don't see many late '60s Cutlass's in the yard these days, do you?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:53:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Comp. Tape for 83? 

>While going through the junkyard today I found an Oldsmobile Complimentary
>Tape Cartridge. The tape and cover are in great shape, the outer plastic
>jacket is worn but those can be replaced. Copyright dates are 69, 77, 82 and
>83 so I assume this is a 1983 Tape?

Could be '84, too. Haven't played it yet?

>Any value in something like this? Never
>seen one before.

Certainly there's value; any kind of knicknacks like that which came with 
the car new are worth keeping. I got the same thing for my SSEi when I 
ordered a new copy of the owner's manual from Helm, Inc. In addition
to the manual itself, I got a suede business card wallet, plastic spare
key card, and an introductory cassette tape. (The car actually has a CD
deck, not a cassette, but it's the thought that counts. :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:00:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Power Antenna

<<Would any know how to repair the motor for a power antenna. Well,it's not
<<really the motor,because the motor spins fine. But the mast was corroded 
and
_____
Brad,
I've got the exact same problem on my '68 power antenna, but I haven't had a 
chance to look at it.  I haven't even pulled the antenna motor out yet.  If 
I get a chance I may take a look at it tonight, but encourage any 
suggestions.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:03:10 -0300
Subject: Wire Guage 

If it's any help the connector to the HEI unit I have has 10 guage
wire on it. Yes it's a pain to work with and yes I have the yellow
connectors. Don't worry about the guage/amp load ratings for my
sake, but it would be cool to post eventually. 
cf

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:35:40 -0300
Subject: Quad States Reminder - Wisconsin Dells

Just a reminder that the Quad States show is this Friday and Saturday at 
the Wisconsin Dells.  There will be over 125 Oldsmobiles there!  

I'll have a vendor space and see you there.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:11:07 -0300
Subject: 60's Cutlasses 

Jeff,
The supply of 60's cars in general has been in decline since at least the
late 80's. When I first started going to the yards in 83 or so, there was
often quite a selection. Now if I find one or two every few runs, I'm 
doing well.  
cf

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:15:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: keep_one_list

>=20
> But thanks for the applause, anyway.  You can all sit back down now.
>=20
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>=20
>

Why would I sit down as I never remember getting up?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama=20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:24:47 -0300
Subject: Re: INTRO

Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
> 
> ----------
> X-Sun-Data-Type: text
> X-Sun-Data-Description: text
> X-Sun-Data-Name: text
> X-Sun-Charset: us-ascii
> X-Sun-Content-Lines: 1
> 
> Please see default for INTRO.
> ----------
> X-Sun-Data-Type: default
> X-Sun-Data-Name: default
> X-Sun-Charset: us-ascii
> X-Sun-Content-Lines: 8
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
>         My name is Steve I'm a civil engineering student at UNC Charlotte.  
I ran across this list on Bryceman's Home Page.  
> 
> Sorry I wrote so much,
> 
> Thanks,


Welcome!

I've already told everyone how much I adore those 442's & now here is 
another one.  I may get me a an address book & just become a repo-man.  
I might go to jail, but I'll go in style.  Nice Car!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:34:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Talk about a find. 67' W-30 questions

Nice find!!!!!

66 was the only year any 442 had tripower. It was available with or 
without the W-30 option. After 66 GM pulled the plug on all the 
tripowered cars except the Corvette.

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:

> I bought a '66 442 Con. today for $1000.  The car has been sitting out
> in the elements for 2 years with the top down.  There are no floor
> boards to speak of and the interior is in prob. the worst shape I have
> ever seen.  It has the original engine but is missing the carb.  I
> bought it just to get the frame (which is perfect).  The guy that sold
> it to me didnt have the keys.  When I got it home I popped the trunk lid
> with a crow bar.  Sitting there looking up at me was the original Qjet
> 4bbl w/ original chrome air cleaner and a tri-power intake complete with
> carbs/foam air cleaners :)
> 
> I have a 1967 442 Convert. 425/4-speed/4.11 posi.. If I put the "E" 400
> block in it from the 66 will there be any way to tell it's not the
> original 400? Assuming I swap the "B" heads for whatever head came on
> the '67.  
> 
> Also seeing that the "W-30 Track Pack" could be dealer installed in 1967
> how hard would it be to duplicate this option in my car?  Correct me if
> I'm wrong or if I fall short, but I think I would need to:
> install the tri-power setup
> paint the inner wheel wells red
> relocate the battery to the trunk
> modify the plates that the headlights mount to to accept duct work for
> ram air
> fabricate/buy a ram air air cleaner 
> 
> Anyone know where I can find a picture of the 67 engine compartment w/
> the track pack?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:36:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Members' Lunch Report

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> The restaurant came with no documentation so we had to figure
> out how to operate it first:
>=20
> ME: (under sign reading "Pay for Orders Here"): I'd like a chicken
> burrito and--
>=20
> CASHIER: Order over there. (gestures in direction of cook)
>=20
>=20
> COOK: Takeout or Eat In?
>=20
> ME: (brightly) Eat in, please!
>=20
> COOK: (gesturing behind us with irritation) Sit down.
>=20
> Ah! Tables! We're supposed to sit at them! And they have a lady
> who comes over and takes your order! What a concept!
>=20
> In keeping with the way things had been
> going up to that point, I made a U-turn after dropping him off
> and discovered I had driven the wrong way down a one-way street.
> That explains why none of the stoplights at the intersection were
> facing my way...
>=20
>  Just don't put me in
> charge of anything important.
>=20
> Andrew C. Green           =20


Oh my!

This is the guy that I have admired for his skill in acquiring knowledge=20
& just good common sense.  While others have mentioned Ben Franklin as=20
the epitome of the practical man I have always countered w/what about=20
Andy Green?  While others have suggested Tom Edison as the electrical=20
genious of the 20th century I have confidently mentioned A. Green as the=20
man of the 21st century.

What will I do now?  Next thing you will tell me that Dan Quale isn't=20
the war hero that I envision him to be.=20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:00:00 -0300
Subject: Some Olds info...

Dear Olds fans,
I'm new to the internet but not to the workings of my '70 442.  I read 
quickly through parts of your FAQ pages.  Lots of great stuff.  Here's some 
good info on blocking off that manifold heat crossover.

I advise against using stainless steel shims to block the manifold heat 
crossover passages.  I used to use my just-removed intake "bathtub" as a 
source for clean stainless, since anything much thicker would affect the 
manifold sealing.  This works well for an engine that is torn down 
frequently (once per year).  Beyond that, the steel starts to deteriorate 
(gets warped and thins out) and I had one of these plates break up and a 
dime size hole appeared when a piece broke off.  Thankfully the fragment 
that came loose slid downward and was trapped harmlessly between the shim 
and the manifold.  Could have been quite damaging if it had been ingested.

 I saved up my pennies and put about a pound of Mondello's  zinc aluminum 
alloy in each head.  Best money I ever spent.  I did this myself, with a 
handy lab furnace at work.  You can use a small cast iron skillet to hold 
the alloy, and one hell of a good potholder to hold the skillet.  Helpful 
hint:  install two old (unwanted) exhaust valves in the center ports with 
springs to hold them tightly shut.  I used an 18 inch piece of 2x4 and 
bolted over the exhaust crossover outlets (where the intake manifold usually 
is), countersinking the bolt heads to ensure the head would stand on edge in 
a stable (read SAFE) manner.  Next, you should pour the molten metal (in the 
port outlet where the exhaust manifilod normally goes) at a good pace so 
that it hardens as one piece and not in layers.  A few gentle raps with a 
rubber mallet, as you pour, by a second person will help displace any air 
bubbles

When I did my heads, I did not use the exhaust valves, so I was only able to 
fill up the ports until the alloy ran out of the exhaust valve pockets.  No 
harm was done to the valve seats  Because the alloy had a pretty high 
surface tension, I did not get optimal filling of the entire passage.  The 
top of the alloy cooled in a dome shape which was not tightly in contact 
with the walls of the port.

  While the passage was certainly completely blocked, there was not alot of 
alloy that projected into the port area for optimal porting of the long side 
of the runner.  Of course, a completely blocked passage is bettter than no 
block at all,  and I was able to shape the pockets pretty well with my 
trusty CP die grinder and assortment of carbide burrs.  I recommend filling 
the passages right up over the valve stems.  This will ensure that enought 
molten material will contact the walls of the passage for smooth porting. 
 This should provide more than enough meat for port work.  I would rather 
have too much since it ports out quickly with the die grinder.

The alloy seems like very durable stuff, but ports with the same ease as 
cast iron.  To date, I have had no problems with durability.  On a cool 
evening, in conjuction with the OAI hood, the car feels massive.  After a 
good highway cruise, you can put your hand on the intake with no discomfort 
from heat!  The car will take longer to warm up and may stumble a bit when 
you stop at the off ramp after a cruise on the highway.  If you want smooth 
idle all the time, better buy a road turtle with EFI.  For the boulevard 
cruiser, blocking off the passages won't provide as great of a benefit, 
since normal heat soak will eventually warm the manifold to the same temp as 
the rest of the engine.  It's the passage of air and evaporation of the fuel 
(i.e. high speed cruising) that cools off the intake.  I used to cruise the 
highways for a while, then get on the boulevard within a few miuntes. 
 Rarely lost!

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:57:55 -0300
Subject: Re: MacGyver Lives (loosely Olds related) long

> 
> Frank Boerger wrote:
> >
> > While depressing the go button, holding the + terminal of the
> > transmitter to the hot battery post, and using the fender trim to jump
> > from the battery - post to the transmitter - battery terminal, the door
> > Begins to rise.
> 

Some guys will do anything for a post.  I wish I had thought up that 
lie.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:13:55 -0300
Subject: Thanks again (was Re: Dip Stick Tube) 

At 12:08 PM 9/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Dave,
>>I'd remove the LH exhaust manifold, get a pair of vice grips and
>>yank it out.
>
>I did this on my '72 350 just last weekend. I didnt want to remove the
>exhaust manifold so I took the upper part of the broken tube to the
>hardware store and found a concrete anchor plug that fit the tube very
>snugly. I then got an oversized (hex head) screw so I could turn it down
>from the side with a wrench.

Yeah, I posted the other day that I used the slide hammer trick with a
lag-type screw and it came out on the third hit!!!! Boy did I feel relieved,
I had been trying on and off for a few days to no avail. Nobody should ever
question the effectiveness and usefulness of this list. It's one of the
greatest things to happen to this hobby. No more running down the street to
the idiot neighbor (who doesn't know Oldsmobiles anyway) to ask for
suggestions. 

Well, if it didn't make it before...Thanks to everyone on this one!!

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:59:39 -0300
Subject: Electrical problem

When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will not blink.
I have checked the battery and it is fine. The car is charging fine also. The
blower motor also brings the turn single flashing even slower. If I put the car
into park it is a little better, and if i put the car in neutral and rev the
engin, the flashing starts up...could someone help me find the problem..thanks
I 

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:15:49 -0300
Subject: Hi-Perf Rear End for G-body GM Intermediates?

My '87 Cutlass factory manual makes reference to the usage of the 8.5" 
rear end in the Custom Cruisers ('wagons).  Having gone through the 
hopeless task of trying to find an 8.5" unit from a 442, Buick Grand 
National, or Monte Caro S/S, this would be seem to be a more plentiful 
source.

Has anyone actually found 8.5" units under Cutlass wagons?  This would 
be a big help before I start crawling under every wagon in the 
junkyards in this area.

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:25:16 -0300
Subject: RE: Power Antenna

At 22:00 09/16/1996 +0000, you wrote:
><<Would any know how to repair the motor for a power antenna. Well,it's not
><<really the motor,because the motor spins fine. But the mast was corroded 
>and
>_____
>Brad,
>I've got the exact same problem on my '68 power antenna, but I haven't had a 
>chance to look at it.  I haven't even pulled the antenna motor out yet.  If 
>I get a chance I may take a look at it tonight, but encourage any 
>suggestions.
>
>Jeff Zeilmann
>SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
>'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
>
>
Jeff,
If you can get the 2-  1/4inch screws out of the trunk floor,the next thing
is to unscrew the chrome washer from the top of the mast holder. Don't do
like I did and try to loosen it with vice grips!!! Chrome sure scratches
easy!! I guess I should have used a cloth or something. There are three
screws at the bottom holding the mast to the motor.That takes off the
largest mast and then you can clean the rest of them. Be careful not to bend
any of them. No kidding,right?
The motor comes apart with just two nuts and the cover comes off.There are
two more bolts holding the armature in the motor.I took those off and
removed the armature (watch out for the brushes!) I could see the gears for
the nylon cable, but I could not figure out how to get in there.Hope you
have more luck than me. I also hope this gets to you before you start your
project so you can have a few hints. Have fun,Have patience,Have a Beer,Try
again!!!

Brad '68 C/S Convt... Still no radio :(

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:21:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction (re-intro of myself)

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:

> I envy your resources.  I probably speak for a lot of the subscribers.  I'll
> bet you don't see many late '60s Cutlass's in the yard these days, do you?
> 
> Jeff Zeilmann

Unfortunately no. Only old Old's are 69 Delta 88, 72 Toro, and a few mid 
70's Cutlass's. Most cars we get are mid 70's on up. A 72 or older is a 
rare one anymore.
> SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
> '68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:55:17 -0300
Subject: 70's big car exh. manifold interchangeability 

Here's a question for all the Olds experts and 69-72 big car owners.  I want
to swap a 350 single exhaust with a 455 dual exhaust in my '72 Delta 88.
The engine that I'm looking at is a '69 455 with dual exhaust manifolds.
Will the 69 exhaust manifolds fit into my car, seeing as how my car is
currently only single exhaust?  

Apperently a while back someone (Roger Bacon?) had trouble with exhaust
manifold interchangability in his '70 big car.  I don't have the post.
Roger, can you shed some light on the subject?

Chris Witt, who has the 69 455 also mentioned that the shift linkage might
be different between dual and single exhaust.  True?  If so, is this an easy
change?  The TH400 has gotta come out for a rebuild anyway.  

For those who own 69-72 big cars with 455 and duals, you could do me a big
favor by checking the exhaust manifold casting number or letter for me.  

Also, if anyone has a Hollanders Interchange book and could check on these
parts, it would be appreciated. 

Much thanks,
Aaron

Unrelated note:  That string on list traffic sure seems to be creating a lot
of list traffic!   

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:54:21 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars 

At 12:07 PM 9/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>junker, etc. My Z/28 was built from 4 different mid-80's Z/28's, looks
>nearly brand new inside and out, but not one number matches on the car. Even
>my wiper motor is off of an 84 Toro. I advertise it as an 88 Z/28 but it is
>far from that....It should be worth around $4,000 on resale. I documented
>the whole rebuild, pictures, etc. But since it has a salvage title people
>will be scared away and I will probably get $2,500-$3,000. 
>What I really need is a way to geet rid of that "salvage title" thing on my
>75 H/O title since it is not a salvage car.

Huh, the laws must be different in Ohio; around here, you can't _get_ a
title for a car over ten years old. Just a bill of sale, and you register
it, then have it inspected within a week. If it passes inspection (basic
roadworthiness), your all set; if not, your registration is invalid. This is
how it works in RI, NY and MA, and CT is similar.

So, if you register it in another state like mine, you lose the "salvage"
title. Some states don't even require you reside there (my cousin has a
motorcycle registered in Maine; call them and they send you the forms, you
fill them out, and they send you a plate through the mail).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:13:29 -0300
Subject: '70 442 ignition switch

I need to replace the electrical part of the ignition switch on my '70
442. I don't yet have a service manual, and I have only done this on the
early (dashboard style) cars.

The column does not appear to have any removable access panels in order to
get at the switch, and is looking like I might have to pull the steering
wheel in order to get to the little critter...

Has anyone done this recently and have any advice to offer?

Thanks in advance!

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:34:39 -0300
Subject: 73-77 8-track Q's. 

I've got a question about radio interchangibility(sp) and I guess radio's in
general.  The radio my 73 Supreme came with was the stock AM unit, mono with
only 2 front speakers. It worked fine, but I wanted something alittle better.
I came across a 77 Supreme in really good shape in a salvage yard, got a lot
of goodies out of it; original owner's manual, window sticker, radio manual,
warranty info for the car and tires, a delivery receipt, and a missouri
driver's guide-circa 1980. Anyway, car had some good options; rally pac,
SSIII wheels, 350 engine, th350, sport mirrors clock, and an AM/FM 8-track
stereo. I pulled the documentation, rally pack and the stereo, and installed
them on my car. Now, (finally), here's the problem- the 8track I bought
appears to be in good shape, lights up when turned on, but doesn't emit any
sound. It may be that it just doesn't work, but there is a terminal on the
back which, according to my assembly manual, should goto a device called a
"convector" which I didn't get from the 77. Does anyone know if this could be
the problem or what Convector is? Thanks.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
              Sorry about how long the post was.

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:09:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Members' Lunch Report 

I was wondering what he meant when he said "u turn" and hoping he meant "go
around the block the get back in the right direction" which proves that, as I
have suspected since being in Chicago, that midwesterners drive differently
than anyone else.

Andy and I did manage to eat some pretty good food and welcome any other Chi
area Rocketeers to join us for the next Oldsluncheon.  In the neighborhood in
which I work are about 400 Mexican establishments and at least 24 Polish
holes in wall, so we can guarantee an extremely rich menu at any time.

my daytime email address is dww@lb.com (phone 312/432-7617) Andy and I await
your calls, DrOlds are you there?

Thanks for the ride Andy, can we leave it to the list members to answer the
question: if you can't drive an Olds which is closer, a Pontiac or a Buick?

By the way, after we discussed the supercharger's origin, I checked in the
glove compartment, and lo and behold my former company car which I am about
to buy is not the 91 they said it was, it's a 92 (pretty weird huh to be
buying a car and not even know what year it is, at least my price is looking
even better).

David Wilk (OCA 4517)
former 68 Toro etc
off to Tennessee and Alabama for two days of business, lots of driving, and
eyes open for older Olds

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:14:34 -0300
Subject: Dual Exhaust Swap 

I have a 66 98 with duals and the manifold came out of a starfire or an 88
with duals. What I can contribute here is that the shift linkage is different
for the cars up to about 70. Olds changed the front suspension dramatically
(steering knuckles move to front from behind the wheels) in '71. 

There are at least 2 kinds of big block driver's side exhaust manifolds. One
like on mine which has an exit to the pipe at about 4:00 or negative 45 
degrees.
The pipe takes over from there and that's where there is interference with the
tranny linkage. Instead of going straight across to the TH-400 like the single
exhaust, the dual has a half moon shape  ( (imagine that symbol turned 90 
degrees. This curved shape allows the linkage to move backward and forward
above the exh. pipe and control the tranny.

The second type of exh. manifold is shaped differently, but I would guess has
the same clearance problem. These can be found (ha) on Cutlass SX's of the 
early
70's, like the one I saw in San Jose Ca this weekend. 

The yard was on Trade Zone blvd. off Montague Expway called D&H pull it yerself
or similar.

hope this helps. 
cf

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:11:17 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 442 ignition switch

Rocketeer wrote:
>=20
> I need to replace the electrical part of the ignition switch on my '70
> 442. I don't yet have a service manual, and I have only done this on th=
e
> early (dashboard style) cars.
>=20
> The column does not appear to have any removable access panels in order=
 to
> get at the switch, and is looking like I might have to pull the steerin=
g
> wheel in order to get to the little critter...
>=20
> Has anyone done this recently and have any advice to offer?
>=20
> Thanks in advance!
>=20
> Boyd Parker=20

Boyd,


The electrical part of a 1970 GM car is on top of the steering column=20
down between the instrument panel & the brake pedal.  If you feel along=20
the top of the column you will find the wiring harness connected into=20
it.  Two screws remove it.

Notice how the metal rod from the key switch fits into the top of the=20
electrical swich.  This rod moves when the key is moved.  The rod in=20
turn moves the switch center.  When you look at the new one, you may see=20
that the black center will slide through several positions.  When=20
installing the new one, the sliding switch must be in the same position=20
as the old one.  The mounting screws are in slotted holes for adjustment=20
of the sliding part.  Tighten the switch down when you have the sliding=20
part in the same position as the old was in.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama =20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:13:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Member's Lunch 

>        Andrew, I like your idea of getting the Chicago area folks 
>     together.  I travel a lot, so I am not a good candidate to schedule 
>     it.  Any others interested?  Anybody interested in setting it up?
>     My preference would be for dinner or weekend, as we probably work in 
>     many different areas.

Looks like the lunch idea has fizzled already, how about a Sunday brunch?
 There are doubtless hundreds of possible places to meet - Glenview, Skokie,
etc.  - would be great if ok for little kids too.  Any ideas?  How about this
coming Sunday?

David Wilk

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:06:00 -0300
Subject: RE: 60's Cutlasses

<<The supply of 60's cars in general has been in decline since at least the
<<late 80's. When I first started going to the yards in 83 or so, there was
<<often quite a selection. Now if I find one or two every few runs, I'm
<<doing well.
____________
cf,

Precisely why I had to make two trips to Halls a couple of months ago.  The 
entire St. Louis area has been tapped out of 60's parts cars also since the 
late '80's.  Won't be long and even the term "parts car," with respect to 
the older cars, will be obsolete!  Hail Year One!

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:17:49 -0300
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER

o455 wrote:
> 
> Greetings:
>           Just Listing my self as a new member and enjoying all the mail
> i have been lookinbg at,so i thought i would say hey...
>           The common thing is to list your vehicles so o.k.
> 
>       1969 cutlass s (f-85
>       1982 cutlass supreme (converted 455 big block)
>       1978 chevette (yep chevette)
>       1986 chevy nova (nothing like the old ones)
> 
>            thanks a bunch........       jim

Welcome,

People will want to know how you got the 455 in the '82 Cutlass.  Could 
you tell the story of the problems & solutions?  What are the results 
like?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  I've never said yep to a Chevette.  You have a lot of courage.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:25:05 -0300
Subject: Key switch fix 

Wow, Bill that's some knowledge you've got there. I was fearful just reading
about someone having to make such a fix. Much work as I have left on the 
98 at least it's all easy to get to and straight forward. 

Well off to keep moving on the rewiring project. Sure am glad I found this
list. What an incredible resource. Fun to pass on what little I know too.

wiring,
cf

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:39:20 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

HUH,????

In MA you are required to get a title for every car now. My brother just 
purchased a 66 VW Bus and he had to get a title to register it. This law 
is 2 to 3 years old. My Mustang is a "salvage vehicle" actually it was a 
recovered theft. My title came from the insurance company when I 
purchased the car and when I received the new title it came back lising 
the car as "Prior theft, prior vandelism". I have heard that if I sold 
the car now in its "rebuilt" state that it would clear the title. Anybody 
from MA out had any experience with "salvage" titles??

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


 > 
> Huh, the laws must be different in Ohio; around here, you can't _get_ a
> title for a car over ten years old. Just a bill of sale, and you register
> it, then have it inspected within a week. If it passes inspection (basic
> roadworthiness), your all set; if not, your registration is invalid. This is
> how it works in RI, NY and MA, and CT is similar.
> 
> So, if you register it in another state like mine, you lose the "salvage"
> title. Some states don't even require you reside there (my cousin has a
> motorcycle registered in Maine; call them and they send you the forms, you
> fill them out, and they send you a plate through the mail).
> 
> -----------
> - Bob Barry
> - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
> - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:35:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical problem

DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu wrote:
> 
> When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will not 
blink.
> I have checked the battery and it is fine. The car is charging fine also. The
> blower motor also brings the turn single flashing even slower. If I put the 
car
> into park it is a little better, and if i put the car in neutral and rev the
> engin, the flashing starts up...could someone help me find the 
problem..thanks
> I

There is a metal flasher like a radio tube connected to your wiring 
harness under the dash.  I would sustpect that this is failing.  You can 
buy a new one or get one from a junkyard.  They don't often fail.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:07:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Fun 

At 03:21 AM 9/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Just spent 20 hours or so rewiring my 66 98. I'm about halfway + and learned
>some new things. 
>
>Story goes that Thu. p.m. with your comments in mind, I was all set to go 
>after my cycling on-off circuit breaker when I run the hi beams. Rewired
>the switch with proper solder and heat shrink tubing, didn't help. Lowered
>the switch to get a better look at things.
>
>ZZZt, pop, click, smoke, more smoke.

Hopefully, you also learned to disconnect the battery before doing any
electrical work.


>Over the years the current harness has had many splices
>and though most of them were clean, they couldn't have helped the situation. 
>Examples include the ign. switch, int/ext alternator conversion, HEI
conversion,
>etc., etc.

These mods. could be at least one of the sources of your problem.  Replacing
the harness, even a bit at a time, is probably a good idea, though a lot of
work (as if you need me to tell you that).
>
>More later, hope this wasn't boring.
>cf

Not boring at all, Chris.  We'll all learn something, while you do the hard
work.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:07:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Suspect 

At 01:21 PM 9/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I still suspect the light switch itself, particularly the courtesy light
>circuit. When you turn the dimmer all the way counter clockwise that 
>turns on the courtesy/interior lights. This may be too high amperage a
>circuit or there may be a short in mine which is drawing high amps and
>frying the switch. Will be going through the back part of the harness
>shortly and figger that out.

If I remember right, you said you replaced the headlight switch more than
once during recent months.  Although it's possible you got a string of bad
switches, it seems unlikely.  Going through the harness does seem the next
logical step.

You can tell if the courtesy lamp circuit is overloaded by looking at the
contacts on the switch (if accessible to view).  If they show signs of
pitting or burning, that's a problem and gives you a good indication of
where to look next.  It doesn't mean that the lamps are the problem, though,
if you're using the proper lamps.  There could be a wire with abraded
insulation or got kinked or pinched and has a strand poking through the
insulation and causing a pseudoshort [eh, Mike?;=)].

>
>As far as the high beams are concerned, a couple of questions:
>
>Is there a right and wrong way to plug the high beam connectors in?
>Low beams are one-way-to-fit only, but hi beams are reversible. Which
>wire goes to which terminal? I have mine both connected the same way,
>but that doesn't mean it's right.

It shouldn't make any difference, since the sealed beam and halogen
replacement lamps have no internal reference to chassis.  The low beam lamp
connector is one way to make sure the high and low beam filaments are on the
correct circuits.

>I also ran through the boneyards on saturday looking at 4-5 different
>65-66 jetstars, 88's and 98's. They're hard to find, but I found that
>both the Jetstar hi beam floor switches were factory and intact, and
>all of the 88's and 98's from 65 and 66 had been spliced or were badly
>melted. This matches my experience and makes me think design flaw.

They just go bad after a while and need replacement.  Some people are lazy,
others just don't want to spend the money for a replacement.  Others don't
know or care.  A bad floor switch could definitely cause problems.  Could
also be that water got into the car by a firewall plug coming loose in wet
weather, shorting out the switch and causing a melt down.  Could've started
a fire, too.

>But what's the fix? Relay sounds right, I have a few spares around, but
>what amperage? I know I have one of those and it would mount nicely on
>the firewall.

Mike's suggestions were good.  If you want, you can even beef it up more by
using a higher rated relay, but that's up to you.

A relay will work in keeping the dash switch in better shape, but if the
problem lies elsewhere, you may only defer trouble for a while.  It may
manefest itself somewhere else.  Just don't forget what you've done so far,
so you can retrace your steps.  I keep a three ring binder with drawings of
changes, replacement part nos. and such.

>cf



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:07:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Hibeam Relay 

At 06:34 PM 9/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Chris Fair wrote:
>> 
>> Mike,
>> Does your 66 Toro have this hi beam problem? 
>
>No... adding a relay 
>a good thing.
>
>I don't have a wiring diagrahm handy, but since the lamps are wired with 
>one side gounded and the 12V the hot from the switch, the following 
>should do the trick:
>
>  [12V from battery]------[FUSE]---|

This part of Mike's drawing makes me wonder if your fuse is the proper size.
It isn't uncommon for people to inappropriately replace a cronically blown
fuse with one of a higher amperage rating.  The fuse is sized how it is for
a reason and the repeated blowing is a symptom of another problem.  If
properly sized, move on, as you already have.  If oversized, you know the
problem is proably not the dash switch (since you've repeatedly replaced
it), but elsewhere.

>Michael R. Frederick



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:07:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring 

At 06:28 PM 9/16/96 -0300, Andy wrote:
>My guess is that 12 gauge would be enough; 10 gauge won't hurt but
>is kind of a pain to work with. And no, you can't use the little
>blue connectors on it; you have to get the equivalent in yellow
>(10-12 gauge size).
>
>Andrew C. Green 

No. 12 AWG is good for 20-25 A.  ibid.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:14:49 -0300
Subject: Toro/Cutlass radio interchangeability- what _won't_ work 

I had the two-piece am/fm stereo radio from my '69 Toronado bench tested,
and they determined that it was the main board that had gone bad. Since the
$150 to fix it was a bit rich for my blood right now, I thought I might swap
in the am/fm flippin' dial mono radio that I pulled from the long-parted out
'72 Vista Cruiser (yup, nobody wanted to buy it). It looked like a direct
bolt-in: same spacing for the knobs, same wiring connector, etc...

_EXCEPT_ the opening for the faceplate; the opening in the Toronado dash is
about 1/4" too small on either side of the faceplate that protrudes on the
Cutlass radio. This answers the question of the person who asked, when I
first mentioned that I had this radio, whether it would fit their
1st-generation Toronado; NO.

BTW, On this am/fm mono radio, there is a blue lead wire that runs from the
front of the radio next to the tuning knob, which for all the world looks
like a factory speaker wire. Is that what this is? There is also a speaker
wire on the connector that plugs into the radio, which goes to the front
speaker. Would a mono radio be equipped to play through two speakers?

Another BTW: If I hook up a low-power am/fm/cassette stereo in the stock
location, would I be able to use the stock speakers? How would I hook them
up, if there is only one lead; run one speaker lead to ground? Eventually
I'd like to get the original fixed, but that won't be for a while (not this
milennium, anyhow).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:20:00 -0300
Subject: Member Contact List

I know it's been mentioned before, but has anyone ever put together a 
contact list for all subscribers?  It would be pretty handy to have 
something to reference when in need of a part or two, especially if the list 
had what city the members live in.  You'd know who is in your area, and be 
more apt to work together in obtaining parts, and sharing info about 
upcoming events.  Some optional things to consider:

NAME
ADDRESS (or at least city)
PHONE #
E-MAIL ADDRESS
AUTOMOBILE(S) - YEAR, MAKE, AND MODEL
HOBBIES (ie.. Model collecting, auto-racing, etc..)
CLUB(S)

All we would need is one or two people to compile the list.  I am not 
exactly gifted with an abundance of free time, but I would be willing to 
help.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 04:33:49 -0300
Subject: RE: Electrical problem

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

.......................................................................

TO: oldsmobile@ccn.ca.dal.ca

.......................................................................


.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

.......................................................................

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will not
blink.

Do the turn signals light up ?

> I have checked the battery and it is fine. The car is charging fine also. The
> blower motor also brings the turn single flashing even slower. If I put the
car
> into park it is a little better, and if i put the car in neutral and rev the
> engin, the flashing starts up...could someone help me find the 
problem..thanks
> I 
> 

This all sounds like you had a contact problem. Especially the neutral-thing
makes me suspect that, because that has nothing to do with turn signals
(electrically).

An other reason for this kind of behaviour is unsufficient grounding near the
turn signal lamps.

To try to correct the problem:

1) disconnect the battey (-) ground wire
2) see under your dash and check each connector one-by-one by first separating
   then immediately closing it again. This operation removes the effect of the
   oxidation. Usually you can't see the difference between a bad and a good
   contact before the frying starts.
3) The grounding of the turn-signal lamps is done via their socket body. Often
   there is no spesific ground-wire but merely the assembly itself takes care
   of the grounding. If your tal-light cases are made of cast-aluminium, there
   may be a bad grounding because of oxidation build-up near the lamp socket.
   This can be cured by pulling the socket out of the lamp housing several
   times. I cured this problem more permanently by equipping my tail-lights
   with a ground wire.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 04:40:09 -0300
Subject: RE: Electrical problem

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will not
blink.

Do the turn signals light up ?

> I have checked the battery and it is fine. The car is charging fine also. The
> blower motor also brings the turn single flashing even slower. If I put the
car
> into park it is a little better, and if i put the car in neutral and rev the
> engin, the flashing starts up...could someone help me find the 
problem..thanks
> I 
> 

This all sounds like you had a contact problem. Especially the neutral-thing
makes me suspect that, because that has nothing to do with turn signals
(electrically).

An other reason for this kind of behaviour is unsufficient grounding near the
turn signal lamps.

To try to correct the problem:

1) disconnect the battey (-) ground wire
2) see under your dash and check each connector one-by-one by first separating
   then immediately closing it again. This operation removes the effect of the
   oxidation. Usually you can't see the difference between a bad and a good
   contact before the frying starts.
3) The grounding of the turn-signal lamps is done via their socket body. Often
   there is no spesific ground-wire but merely the assembly itself takes care
   of the grounding. If your tal-light cases are made of cast-aluminium, there
   may be a bad grounding because of oxidation build-up near the lamp socket.
   This can be cured by pulling the socket out of the lamp housing several
   times. I cured this problem more permanently by equipping my tail-lights
   with a ground wire.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:15:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical problem

DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu wrote:
> 
> When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will 
> not blink.

1) Grounds, grounds, grounds.  For those who might have missed earlier 
discussions, automobiles use the chassis, block, body panels, and 
everything in between for ground -- the negative side of the battery.  
As the car ages, the electrical connection (or continuity) between these 
various parts starts to crap out (rust, road goo, etc.).  As Esko 
correctly points out, running ground wires to lamp sockets is a very good 
idea.

2) Bad sockets can short the park to the turnsignal filaments.  The 
result is the turnsignal are powered all the time so they never flash 
when ever the parking/headlights are on.

3) Related to #2:  Shorted or crunched wiring with the same effect.

4) Also had some dork put single filament bulbs in the front turnsignals 
of the Swedish Brick.  Shorting the two socket terminals together again 
with the same result as #2.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:22:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Fun

Spud wrote:
> 
> Hopefully, you also learned to disconnect the battery before doing any
> electrical work.

HA!  Required reading: "How to destroy Toronado wiring with 
a radio in 2 seconds or less" by Greg "Sparky" Kalkhoff.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:19:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Hibeam Relay

Spud wrote:
> 
> This part of Mike's drawing makes me wonder if your fuse is the proper 
> size.                           (SNIP)
> If oversized, you know the problem is proably not the dash switch 
> (since you've repeatedly replaced it), but elsewhere.

Very good point about the fuse size.  There IS a problem lurking in there 
somewhere.  By added a relay, we're really correcting a symptom rather 
than a problem.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:37:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another......Flaming Oldsmobile 

At 02:47 PM 7/29/96 -0300, you wrote:
>The most ironic part was that I'm sure thats what he thought later - but in
all seriousness, his cars ALWAYS come first!!

Lisa Madsen wrote:
>>
>> - he rips her shirt off of her and smothers the fire!  
>
>Great story, Lisa.  But you've got to admit, it was certainly one of the 
>most creative ways anybody ever came up with to get a girl's top off.  ;)
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm


                   \\\\\\|/////
                    \\ - - //
                    ( 0 0 )
      ----oooO--(_)--Oooo---


          .oooO
             (   )    Oooo.
       ----- \  (----(   )--------
               \_)    )  /
                      (_/   
           Hang in there!!

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:37:33 -0300
Subject: Another color 

Just when I'd decided to change the scanned ad at the top of my home page to
my 1970  Dr. Olds 4-4-2 Car and Driver ad, all this hoo-haa over the yellow
on my other Car & Driver ad comes up.  I'm afraid to change it now for fear
someone will say "hey, whats that gold color called......" and we'll all be
off for another week on colors.  Granted, that saffron (or whatever it was
decided to be)  didnt scan as well as a photo, but its one of my favorite
ads (framed on the wall they look alot better).  I collect em.   I should
probably put up my '67 Vista Cruiser ad, its white - that'd be safe.

Just teasing everyone - the yellow back & forth has been - ?interesting?



Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm


                   \\\\\\|/////
                    \\ - - //
                    ( 0 0 )
      ----oooO--(_)--Oooo---


          .oooO
             (   )    Oooo.
       ----- \  (----(   )--------
               \_)    )  /
                      (_/   
           Hang in there!!

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:37:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Not an A Body.... 

At 10:40 PM 7/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Tue Jul 23 21:18 EDT 1996
>> Date: 	Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:15:01 -0300
>> From: mefco@sprynet.com
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Went to a local yard today and the big cars are showing up again. A 66
98, two 
>> 68 Deltas, and a 70 98. Anybody need any of this stuff?
>> 
>> Art Fuller
>
>Why yes!  Where are you?  I need a front bumper.  Actually, I need a
>bunch of stuff.  What kind of shape, color, and style is that 70 98.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
>Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
>lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
>(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
>Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v
>
>Yes, where are you?  I've got a '67 Delta 88 that's mint but......you never
know.  I'd like to replace my left rear wheel well molding (and depending on
cost I'd consider the rest of hte moldings also...)

Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, California

>
>
>
>

Sincerely

James Thingwold
Glass Line Newsletter 
120 S Kroeger St.
Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA

Phone: (714) 520-0121
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Mail:                                  jht@exo.com  
OR                                        jim@hotglass.com

No frames :                          http://www.hotglass.com/

NetScape,  Frames :          http://exo.com/~jht/index.html
This document is designed to be viewed using Java & Netscape 2.0's Frame
Features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:40:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical problem

> ... if i put the car in neutral and rev the engin, 
> the flashing starts up...

Hmmm.  I don't think I'd attach too much importance to this.  The circuit 
should work -- period.  The idea of reving the motor increases vibration 
and voltage (slightly) and may just be compensating for a bad connection 
somewhere.  Ever have a speaker that doesn't work until you turn the 
radio way up and then it's fine?

The 66 Toro and Mike



- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:31:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Suspect

Spud wrote:
> 
> There could be a wire with abraded insulation or got kinked or pinched 
> and has a strand poking through the insulation and causing a 
> pseudoshort [eh, Mike?;=)].

You betcha!  Have also seen trim pieces pinch wires and cut through the 
insulation causing bogus grounds.   ;)
 
> It shouldn't make any difference, since the sealed beam and halogen
> replacement lamps have no internal reference to chassis.  The low beam 
> lamp connector is one way to make sure the high and low beam filaments 
> are on the correct circuits.

True enough.  An thought it doesn't matter for the problem discussed, 
don't forget that there is a difference between the *position* of the low 
and high beam filaments within the lamp.  There functions are not 
interchangeable.

> Mike's suggestions were good.  

Whew!   :)

> A relay will work in keeping the dash switch in better shape, but if 
> the problem lies elsewhere, you may only defer trouble for a while.

Yup.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:43:25 -0300
Subject: Re: 73-77 8-track Q's.

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know if this could be the problem or what Convector is? 

I have no idea (most of my manual are for older radios).  Not standard 
electrical terminology -- marketing-weenie term.  Anybody?

Doesn't emit any sound from both radio and tape?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:49:05 -0300
Subject: Re: email

> Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
> > 
> > I was wondering if anybody has been having trouble with their email.
> 
> Nope.  That is no more than usual.  This sounds like a local problem, 
> that is, your system.  What fur email are you runnin?  Judging from the 
> continuous lines, Mail Exchange?
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 

Nope, it wasn't just local to Steven.  My mail tool (Mailtool on Unix, FWIW)
was also terminating abnormally when I went to try to read mail... since last
Friday.

It turned out to be a bunch of posts that were formatted in 'MetaMail' (sp?).
Dunno if it was occurring in the MajorDomo or with the original poster --
all of 'em were from Bill Culp (I forgive you, Man! :) ) -- and to get the
tool to work again, I had to go in via elm to delete 'em.

Hope this helps, Steven!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:55:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical problem

DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu wrote:
>
> When I run my lights at night on my 70 Cutlass the turn signals will
> not blink.

Bill brings up a good point that got by me.  
Have you tried replacing the flasher?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:51:35 -0300
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER

> 
> >      1986 chevy nova (nothing like the old ones)
>      
>           ACK!!!  You mean they got ~worse~?!!!
>                                  

>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"

Well, Charley, Novas (Spanish for Doesn't Go) became Toyota Corollas in '86

- -- *You* be the judge :)



Tim (Whose Mom's 86 N*v* he bought her new is still going strong ) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:03:01 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

> Huh, the laws must be different in Ohio; around here, you can't _get_ a
> title for a car over ten years old. Just a bill of sale, and you register
> it, then have it inspected within a week. If it passes inspection (basic
> roadworthiness), your all set; if not, your registration is invalid. This is
> how it works in RI, NY and MA, and CT is similar.

Just for the record on how it's done in MA:

Yes, it's true that it *used* to be that cars over 10 y.o. didn't need a title.
Not any more.  It's possible to buy a car w.o. a title (if the previous owner
didn't get one 'cuz it was over 10 y.o. when (s)he bought it), but the
Commonwealth of Mass now requires titling of cars & motorcycles, regardless
of age.


Never heard of that invalid reg if it fails inspection, Bob.  Sounds 
dangerously
like those 'clunker' laws that states like NJ and CA are passing, which some
folks claim are being passed so they can legally confiscate cars, crush 'em,
and take clean air credits for...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:10:39 -0300
Subject: Re: email

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> 
> It turned out to be a bunch of posts that were formatted in 'MetaMail' 
> Dunno if it was occurring in the MajorDomo or with the original poster 
> all of 'em were from Bill Culp (I forgive you, Man! :) ) -- and to get 
> the tool to work again, I had to go in via elm to delete 'em.

Interesting.  Didn't cause a problem in Netscape's email.  

Hmmm...  Would this amount to Culp-able negligence?   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:14:13 -0300
Subject: Non Olds: Nova, Was: NEW MEMBER

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:

> Well, Charley, Novas (Spanish for Doesn't Go) 
> became Toyota Corollas in '86

Pushed my non-running 86 Corolla out into the driveway on Saturday
with a "Please steal me" sign on it.  It's still there...   :(

The 66 Toro and Mike
		

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:13:50 -0300
Subject: The keyhole.

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
I'm not trying to push anyone, but I certainly would like to eat the fruits the
ignition switch thread has grown.

Same in english:
Please, if anybody is interested in sending that 1964-ignition switch to
Finland please inform Me ASAP.

I'm currently working over-time (it's 17:10 local time now) and wait for your
answers. I usually read your mails next day (have no computer home).

If there is anything I could do for You I would be very pleased to help.

Anybody having problems with SAAB, VOLVO or perhaps WARTBURG?

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:14:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Member's Lunch 

> There are doubtless hundreds of possible places to meet - Glenview, Skokie,
>etc.  - would be great if ok for little kids too.  Any ideas?  How about this
>coming Sunday?

Hmmm. No can do this Sunday. Given the number of people involved (>2),
we'll need to work a little further into the future, IMHO. How does
sometime in October sound?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #303
********************************
 
