To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/18/96 11:42:31 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #371


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 19 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 371


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:00:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's

>Most Pontiac enthusiasts hated them.

Kinda like the M**tang enthusiasts absolutely HATED those gaudy "King
Cobra" packages they put on the 1978 Mustang 2s.  Consisted of a
plain old stock 302-2V, overbundance of tape and decals, and a fake
hood scoop.  Had about as much in common with a REAL Cobra as...well,
as a Ventura 2 had with a GTO! <g>

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:17:21 -0400
Subject: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

At 14:15 11/07/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically the
headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on either >side), > >Craig Dobbins. >Lockport, N.Y.

>
Hey,Craig;  I have been meaning to get back to you about those headlight
housings. Are you looking for the squarish piece that goes around the
lights and is painted black with a chrome trim? Or the silver rings that
hold the lights into the concave holders? Or, (there are alot of pieces
holding the lights!!) do you need the gray plastic-like backings that
are around the light assemblies? Let me know,and I will look the next
time I go to the yard around here.
        By the way, does anyone know what color black the head light
trim pieces on a '68 Cutlass should be? Mine are quite faded and chipped
from bugs and other road debris. Now I can't tell if they should be flat
black or gloss. Thank for any help....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re:  Top Speed

At 11:56 PM 11/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Those of you that live for top speed  should also consider how much of
a >resistance the air is at higher speeds. It definatly does not get any
>easier as you strive to go faster. > A good example is a Porsche
944.Remember this car has better aerodynamics >than any of our
Oldsmobiles by far. A non turbo car can reach 130 MPH with >150 HP
(flywheel). >A turbo car can reach 155 MPH but it requires an additional
80 HP!  Not >exactly fair is it! It gets worse, to reach 175 MPH,   the
same car has to >put out 400 flywheel HP.  ( Out of 150 Cubic inches,
ouch ) > >Nice job on rounding up the formulas, Scott !. >> From: R
Mullen <r_mullen@Merck.Com> >> To: 'Olds Page'
<oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca> >> Subject: >> Date: Friday, November 15,
1996 11:23 AM >> The Snipe Sniped

This is only thirty years out of date.  My physics prof would probably
sob. There is a Physics Law called the "Law of Diminishing Returns."  As
I recall if you wish to double the speed, you must square the
horsepower, ie, if a 100 hp car will go 100 mph, and you want it to go
200, 2 squared is 4, you must supply four times the horsepower;
everything else being equal.

One of you .edu guys, check with the Physics departments on this.  It is
fuzzy hazzy, but does give some indication of why it isn't as easy, to
do, as one might otherwise think, when one wants to go fast.

This concept is often best considered in large ships.  A VLCC (very
large crude carrier) a big tanker man, might have a mere 25,000 hp
diesel engine, and cross the Atlantic in about two weeks.  The
battleship Missouri has 212,000 hp, yep, eight times as much, and weighs
less; and if hard pressed, it could cross in under one week. Landsend UK
to NYC.  And the wagon would probably burn 4 to 5 times as much fuel.
(Strickly hap-hazzard, and exagerated for clarity).  But does indicate
power the to speed consideration.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 w/455
1979 Olds Delta 88 w/Diesel
1931 Olds Patrican Sedan
1931 Olds 4-door
1930 Olds Viking Cabriolet project car
1929 Olds Viking 4 door, part of project

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:51:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> There was the Canadian "McLaughlin Motor Car Company Ltd.", which was
merged > with Chevy to form GM of Canada, and the Peninsular Motor
Company (did they > actually make cars?). >

I thought McLaughlin originally merged with Buick?  I know someone that
has an ancient McLaughlin-Buick, so the Chevy merger statement got me
wondering...

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:04:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

>>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically the
>headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on >either >>side),
     <<< S N I P >>>

Clarification point, here:  Are these pieces 442 specific, convert
specific, or 442 convert specific, or will standard Cutlass trims be the
same?  I don't have any leads, but I figured a clarification may broaden
chances for others to find them...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:26:05 -0400
Subject: Auto Sayings (WAS e: More Auto Acronyms)

Sorry to hear about the fire damage to the Patrician, Cliff :(
I think everybody who's experienced even a smoldering wire under the
dash felt a little of the jab of terror you must've had when you saw the
smoke coming from your car...

The "ashes to ashes" thing jogged my memory of a similar one I heard
years ago, and it is applicable to something that passed for
transportation that I saw during this morning's commute...

I was on the Mass Pike, going east into Boston.  I gradually started
smelling burning oil, and sure 'nuff, about a 1/4 mile ahead, I saw a
vehicle belching bluish smoke from the exhaust... a constant stream of
the stuff, as opposed to a cloud under acceleration only.  From days of
yore, we've referred to such vehicles as 'Mosquito Control', like the
trucks that the town drives around in the summer every once in a while,
spraying pesticide.

But that's not the phrase to which I refer.

I caught up to this emissions nightmare soon enough, and found it to be:

A friggin' Plymouth Neon.

Now these things can't be more'n 2 - 3 years old, right?  And this one
was already smokin'!!  My nieghbor across the street bought one for his
daughter about a year ago, and he complains about the number of times
it's been in the shop.  Anyway, I remebered this little ditty:

Plymouth Neons, made of tin.
Drive 'em out, and push 'em in!

You can insert yer favorite make-to-bash :)

P.S.  I took a quick look at that '67 Cutlass ragtop in the service
station, the one that appeared there last week.  Had an old CA license
plate on the back. Engine was pulled, dunno what was in there.  Didn't
look in the interior. Body looked pretty good, 'cept for the crumple in
the nose on the right :( Definitely a lot less chrome on this
non-Supreme compared to my car, but still a good looker.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

> dust to dust,
> if it wasn't for O........e my tools would rust.
>
> And for those who's senseabilities have just been stepped on, read
that: "if > it wasn't for Chevrolet my tools would rust." > > Also G ot
a M echanic C oming > > and yet again another for F..D > > F..king O
ld R ambler D iscard > > Someone should start a book. > > Cliff Feiler >
 > > > >

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:44:08 -0400
Subject: Rare(?) 1979 Hurst Olds Sighting

While at the mall yesterday I saw an unusual '79 Hurst Olds in the
parking lot.  It was not White or Black, but instead was painted
a Cream or Camel color.  Everything else was correct,
with the usual large gold blocks of paint, H/O emblems on
the C pillar and trunk lid, and W-30 decals on the front
fenders.  It appeared to be original paint, but the car itself
was not being taken care of.  The only other difference was
that this car had 1975 style gold SSII wheels, not the gold
aluminum wheels that were standard.

Was this a rare car or did they actually make other colors than
black or white in 1979?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:15:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Rare(?) 1979 Hurst Olds Sighting

While at the mall yesterday I saw an unusual '79 Hurst Olds in the
parking lot.  It was not White or Black, but instead was painted
a Cream or Camel color.  Everything else was correct,
with the usual large gold blocks of paint, H/O emblems on
the C pillar and trunk lid, and W-30 decals on the front
fenders.  It appeared to be original paint, but the car itself
was not being taken care of.  The only other difference was
that this car had 1975 style gold SSII wheels, not the gold
aluminum wheels that were standard.

Was this a rare car or did they actually make other colors than
black or white in 1979?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

*****
Jeff,

I'd guess that it's either a reproduction H/O, or an older repaint.
There has never been any indication come to light that anything other
than black or white was used as the primary color on the '79s.  The
easiest way to determine if it is a genuine H/O which has been
repainted, would be by the engine code on the VIN plate.  The only
1979 Cutlass bodied cars which had the "R" code Olds 350 engine were
Hurst/Oldsmobiles.  As for the 1975-type wheels, I'd guess that
someone along the line wanted to put 15 inchers on the car and all
the 1979 Cutlass wheels were 14 inch.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:24:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Dash replacement parts

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>

>Had an inquiry off my web page for a guy with a '70 4-4-2 who says he
>needs to replace the chrome colored 'beading' on his dash.  I think
he's >referring to the sorta-kinda strip that goes around the dash just
under >the pad from the top (I'm referencing my '72 V-C dash s similar
piece). >Anyway, please reply with suggestions to where he could find
this >replacement and/or how to get it re-plasticed-chromed directly to
him at >MrHyde68@aol.com

>Lisa Madsen

When I bought my '70, what was left of the chrome piping was in the
trunk. It had turned very brittle and essentially fell off the dash.

I bought the replacment from Year One, along with some 3M adhesive
and glued the new strip back on.

It comes rolled up in a box, so I layed it out flat for a couple of
months first.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.sww.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Robert M. Nevins II" <nevinsr@voyager.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:24:50 -0400
Subject: 1964 F-85 Cutlass Sports Coupe

A couple of weeks ago I sent out my introduction.  My system crashed and
I lost all the responses.  I have a 1964 F-85 Cutlass Sports Coupe.
It's my pride and joy.  I'm interested if any of you out there have any
information about this year and model, and it's value.  I've been to
many a car show, and I have not yet to locate one. I need a few parts,
like a left rear backup light, maybe a rear bumper (the chrome is
peeling off this one), etc.  I don't have a lot of experience in this
hobby and can use all the help I can get.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:43:55 -0400
Subject: Non-Supreme 67 (was:  Re: Auto Sayings)

...I took a quick look at that '67 Cutlass ragtop...
Definitely a lot less chrome on this non-Supreme compared to my car
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

          I thought that (in 1966 anyway) the only Cutlass
          convertibles (442s included) were Supremes with all the
          chrome.  Were non-Supreme converts available in 67, or has
          this car just had the chrome removed in an earlier life?

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442 (Supreme convert)
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Top Speed

 A good example is a Porsche 944.Remember this car has better
aerodynamics than any of our Oldsmobiles by far. A non turbo car can
reach 130 MPH with 150 HP (flywheel). A turbo car can reach 155 MPH but
it requires an additional 80 HP!

          Do both the Turbo and non-Turbo 944s have the same final
          drive ratio?  If not, that would explain some of the
          difference.  What about drag?  (Typically the Turbo would
          have a wing or spoiler that the base car will not)  I'm
          assuming that these are published numbers from real cars.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:08:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Supreme 67 (was:  Re: Auto Sayings)

I stated:
> ...I took a quick look at that '67 Cutlass ragtop...
> Definitely a lot less chrome on this non-Supreme compared to my car

Joe asks:

>           I thought that (in 1966 anyway) the only Cutlass
>           convertibles (442s included) were Supremes with all the
>           chrome.  Were non-Supreme converts available in 67, or has
>           this car just had the chrome removed in an earlier life?

There were definitely non-Supreme converts in '67.  There were even
(blasphemous as it may seem) some 6-cylinder ragtops in '67, according
to numbers posted here last week!  Those same numbers showed that, by
far, the most numerous converts were Supremes, by like a factor of 3 or
so...

FWIW, In the 4.5 years I've owned Big Red, I've seen 2 other '67
convertibles. Neither was a Supreme.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:31:29 -0400
Subject: Re: A-Bodies

According to my '79 Specs book, a 350 was not available in the
Supreme.  The largest V8 you could get was a gas 305, but the 4spd
manual was available with that motor.
*****
As I recall, any 1979 Cutlass could be ordered with a 350 if it was
to be delivered to a designated "high altitude" dealership.  In these
cases however, the 350 was a Chevrolet engine with a 2-barrel carb.
The only 1979 Cutlass with a 350, 4-barrel Oldsmobile engine was the
Hurst/Olds.


Also, I don't think the Automatic Overdrive was available until '81.
Running from memory, I'm certain the 350 gas was available then.
They offerred it as standard equipment on the whole line (I think...)
up until '80.
*****
I'm not sure about the 1980 and 1981 Cutlass, except that the 1980
442 also was the only Cutlass to have the "R" code 350 Olds engine.
The Chevy 350 was probably still available as an option, but the
standard equipment was probably the 231 Buick V-6 for any Cutlass.


I have a hunch that my '78 Buick wagon (donor car) had a 2004R, but I
can't remember ever checking for the indicator needle to see if it's
OD or not.
*****
I worked for General Motors' Hydramatic Division in 1978, and I know
for certain that the 200R4 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission
was not yet in production.  1978 (and 1979) A-body cars had either a
model 200 or 350 automatic transmission.  The easiest way to
determine which is installed in a car, it to look at the
transmission's oil pan.  If "Metric" is stamped into the pan in large
(over an inch tall, as I recall) letters, you're looking at a
THM-200.  They're not good transmissions, but were built by the tens
of thousands at Hydramatic's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant.  As I recall,
all of the THM-350 transmissions in that era were being built by
Buick in Flint, Michigan, and General Motors of Canada.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:36:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

At 12:51 AM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>> There was the Canadian "McLaughlin Motor Car Company Ltd.", which was
merged >> with Chevy to form GM of Canada, and the Peninsular Motor
Company (did they >> actually make cars?). >> > >I thought McLaughlin
originally merged with Buick?  I know someone that >has an ancient
McLaughlin-Buick, so the Chevy merger statement got me >wondering... >
>Ryan Hehn >ryanh@docker.com > > McLauglin was an ancient Canadian
carriage maker of some repute.  The automobile was seen as a threat to
the carriage business.  Eventally one of the McLauglin people approached
Durant, and an agreement was made that McLaughlin would build Buicks in
Canada.  Buick (U.S.) would supply the mechnical aspect, and McLauglin
would do the coach work.  When this agreement was made; Buick was still
building pretty much the same car that had started production with, in
1904. It was a fairly simple 2 cylinder car with overhead valves.
McLauglin's first production was based on this model; although newer
designs were incorporated into McLauglin's production too, whenever
Buick developed a new model it would usually be available from
McLaughlin.  McLaughlin developed models of its own as well, cars that
had no equivalent in the regular Buick line.

Near the end of the agreement, it had a time element, McLaughlin became
a unit of General Motors.  It WAS first merged with Chevrolet; but
shortly thereafter became a stand alone GM unit.  And after the purchase
by GM, the Canadian production would generally follow U.S. production
standards, with much less McLaughlin inhouse variety.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:48:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Sayings (WAS e: More Auto Acronyms)

At 09:26 AM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry to hear about the fire damage to the Patrician, Cliff :(
>I think everybody who's experienced even a smoldering wire under the
dash >felt a little of the jab of terror you must've had when you saw
the smoke >coming from your car... > <<snip>>

Thanks for the note.  Luckily a trucker saw the fire, just past dawn,
and honked.  He had a fire extinguisher, and we had some water.  Got the
fire to just smoldering, got off at the first exit and doused it good
with a hose in a filling station.  It is amazing how much was burned.

The Neon reference got me to thinking about "A Why?"  Does anyone know
any of the design characteristics of the Neon engine?

Way back when, Chevrolet built a thing called a Chevette (we still live
with it's special A/T tranmission, the TH 200) which had the pistons
running right in an aluminum block.  The beauty of conventional engine
design is that an aluminum piston running in a cast iron block are as if
they were made for each other.  If the engine is well oiled the
aluminum/cast iron are just about frictionless.  They do make the piston
alloy high silicon, which seems to improve the slippage.

Note: If you ever attempt to make your own aluminum castings to perhaps
replace a missing part.  Do not use pistons in your melt.  The silicon,
while good in pistons, makes for poor castings.  However aluminum
transmission cases and the like work quite nicely.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88
1979 Olds Delta 88
1931 Olds Patrician
1931 Olds 4-door
1930 Viking Cabriolet
1929 Viking 4-door

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:11:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Car Acronyms List (short)

BMW  -  Blocking My Way

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:22:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Old's for sale.

Many years ago I saw a '77 or so 442 in my town.  I distinctly
remember it having a manual because he ran he engine way up in the
revs before shifting.

I thought at some point a 5sp manual was available.

*****
I believe that you could get a Cutlass with the 260 V-8 and a 5 speed
manual transmission in 1977.  That may have been the standard
combination in the 442 option.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:26:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Older Olds. Parts found!

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>

>CRuper1@aol.com wrote:

>> Ok guys and gals, I've found a few things at the local "old cars"
>>scrap yard.

>>  So, question  is...  anybody nearby looking for some
>>parts, or is curious to see what's here, care to spend a Saturday
>>digging around (open 9-5 Mon. thru Sat.),  obviously before it gets
>>cold, etc.  I live in the area about 80 miles west of Chicago, Il.
>>near Beloit, Wis., and the place is nearby.  If anybody wants to do
>>so, drop me a line one way or another, and we'll set it up, maybe even
>>a group of people.

> > Chris Ruper    CRuper1@aol.com

>  I live in NW Indiana and I'm very interested in visiting this junk
>yard.  Everybody around here crushes cars within a week or two after
>receiving them and you would be lucky to find something from the 70's
>let alone the 50's and 60's.
>  Can you give me the address of this place?  Sounds like it should be
>close to Great America?

>  George Torch

Well, no, Great America is nowhere near Beloit.  I can see the tops
of some of their rides from where I live, and Beloit is still 40 or more
miles west of me. :-)

I would be interested in the location of this yard as well.  Chris?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:30:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Rare(?) 1979 Hurst Olds Sighting

>I'd guess that it's either a reproduction H/O, or an older repaint.
>There has never been any indication come to light that anything other
>than black or white was used as the primary color on the '79s.  The
>easiest way to determine if it is a genuine H/O which has been
>repainted, would be by the engine code on the VIN plate.  The only
>1979 Cutlass bodied cars which had the "R" code Olds 350 engine were
>Hurst/Oldsmobiles.  As for the 1975-type wheels, I'd guess that
>someone along the line wanted to put 15 inchers on the car and all
>the 1979 Cutlass wheels were 14 inch.

>Thomas G. Stoner

Thats what I assumed at first, but it looked like original paint to me.
The car was starting to rust out, and the H/O emblems were
in really bad shape.  If it was a repaint, it must have been done
early in its life.

Without the VIN and the body plate, we'll never no for sure...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442 4-speed

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:21:09 -0400
Subject: Re: hard starting

     Yes, it's not just '72 though.  It's all of them.  I've never heard
of
     a rebuild that didn't replace these with metal gears though.  I
called
     the dealer a while back and they recommend replacement at 120k
miles,
     more if the engine is well cared for.

     This was the fate of the 260 in my '79 (at 180k severly abused by
     previous owner miles).  The first thing that happened was that I
     started it once and it ran like sh*t.  Wouldn't idle, lack of
power,
     etc.  In restrospect I'm sure that the timing chain skipped a
tooth.
     A week or two later I lost oil pressure on the freeway and shut
down
     the engine and decided to write it's epitaph rather than run it
'till
     it siezed.  Post-mortem by the guy who pulled the engine and
installed
     the rebuild revealed a plugged oil pump pickup, plugged with some
     plastic particles that took him quite some time on his parts
cleaner
     to remove.  He said the timing gears were nearly _gone_ and he
could
     not believe that they still worked at all (yet the engine still
ran,
     with no oil and no timing gears, but barely.  He started it and
     managed to drive it into his garage from where the towtruck left
it).

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: hard starting Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/16/96 7:50 PM

On the oil thing, Gregg emailed me that 350 engines in '72 used nylon
coated gears and as the nylon wears, the nylon clogs the oil pickup.
Anybody else heard of this?

Thanks,

Roger


------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:43:44 -0400
Subject: TH200 - Plastic gear?!!

Over the weekend I was talking to some freinds and one of them rebuilt
the TH200 in his car. He said he wishes that he had at least a T350
because the TH200's have a plastic second gear. I just don't see how
that would hold up under hard acceleration. I understand that the cars
that have 200's may not have a whole lot of horses but still wouldn't
it wear rather quickly? Is this whole story true or was he just pulling
my leg?

thanks for any reply's
Marc Westerlind
70 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:36:21 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: JL pace cars and W-31 distributors

     I was just at Toys-R-us yesterday, they had two or three JL '74
     Pace-car packs and I bought one with a blue '74 H/O.  There was a
     purple one and I think another blue left.  $5 for it and the Indy
car
     that comes with.  If anyone is looking for these and can't find
them
     locally, let me know and I'll be glad to go back and pick them up.

     Plus tax and shipping costs might be $7-$8 for me to send them.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: JL pace cars and W-31
distributors Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:
11/16/96 8:06 PM


In a message dated 96-11-15 03:58:52 EST, you write:

<< Whats your price on the JL cars?  Might be interested (& I will reply
 either way)
  >>
The price tag on the JL original color pace cars is 80.00.  Thanks for
the inquire.

W MACHINES


------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:58:27 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Flight time!!!

     There's a gasoline FAQ on the web at
     http://www.ca.sandia.gov/carnival/engine.dir/html/gas.html

     Lots of good info there, and plenty of history on Aviation
gasoline.
     It gets a bit techy at points, lots of chemistry involved.

     Tom lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Flight time!!! Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/16/96 8:07 PM

Also, if anyone has and additional data about gasoline, I would like to
read it.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:51:45 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Old's for sale.

     No, there's a picture with the ad.  It's definitely a '79 (or
     thereabouts).  If it's still around next weekend, I think I'll go
see
     it and get some numbers off it.  The 350 was available in the '79
H/O,
     and I've heard that the 4-speed was originally listed as an option
and
     some people ordered it (and waited quite some time) but it never
     happened.  You're correct about the automatic overdrive, that
couldn't
     be it and still be original.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Old's for sale. Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/16/96 9:34 PM

> '79 Olds Cutlass supreme.  19,000 original miles.  Like new condition.
 >  >      350 V8 _factory_4_speed_ custom wheels, pin striping.  $4650
 >  >     208-687-2526. >  > >       4Speed Auto, perhaps?...
700R4, 2004R,  I'll stop before I hit Lenco
 :

According to my '79 Specs book, a 350 was not available in the Supreme.
The largest V8 you could get was a gas 305, but the 4spd manual was
available with that motor.

Also, I don't think the Automatic Overdrive was available until '81.

Maybe the ad is a typo and it's a '69 Supreme with a 350 and a 4speed.
That would be possible.

Paul



------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:19:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Rare(?) 1979 Hurst Olds Sighting

Thats what I assumed at first, but it looked like original paint to
me. The car was starting to rust out, and the H/O emblems were in
really bad shape.  If it was a repaint, it must have been done early
in its life.

Without the VIN and the body plate, we'll never no for sure...

*****
Jeff,

Did you happen to get a look at the interior?  If so, did it have the
Cutlass Calais reclining buckets and the Hurst Dual Gate shifter?
The gold paint and even the H/O emblems would be fairly easy to add
to a regular Cutlass Calais, but those Dual Gate shifters are hard to
find and the cover plate for the console would be almost impossible.
I doubt that the striping between the two body colors would be
correct on a replica either, since some of those parts were out of
stock by about 1982.  Maybe I could check to make sure I still have
my extra emblems and cover plate . . .      I always thought about
building a replica on a cruiser body, or an El Camino with a Cutlass
nose grafted on.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Terry R Barsalou" <barsalou@escape.ca>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:03:10 -0400
Subject: Parts

Hi,
I am new to the list and own a 1963 Olds Super 88.  I am looking to a
rear light lense for the 2 Dr HT model.

Does anyone have a spare?

Terry

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:11:09 -0400
Subject: Re: 4 Speed 1979 H/O?

I strongly doubt that a 4 speed manual transmission option was ever
considered for the 1979 Hurst/Olds.  As most of you know, 1979 was
the only year in which H/Os came off the end of the Lansing assembly
line as completed cars and didn't get sent off for additional work at
Hurst Performance Products or Cars and Concepts.  For this reason,
there would be no possible loophole around the then current EPA
regulations.

In part and summary, those regulations stated that as long as an
engine/transmission combination had been certified in any production
model for that year, the same combination could be used in any other
model that the factory desired, so long as less than 2,500 were
produced.  If 2,500 or more were built, the engine/transmission
combination had to be certified specifically in that particular
model.  Certification was (and I assume, still is) an expensive and
time consuming process.  The "R" code Olds 350 engine in combination
with the THM350 transmission had already been certified in the 88
models for 1979, so legally that same combination could also be used
in the Cutlass body without specific certification as long as less
than 2,500 were built.  That's why 2,499 1979 Hurst/Oldsmobiles were
produced.

Now, there were no 350/4 speed combinations already certified by
Oldsmobile in 1979, so certification would have been necessary.  Even
if management could have been convinced that sales volume would have
justified the cost of certification (extremely doubtful that it could
have, in anyone's wildest dreams), the necessary time probably wasn't
available for this mid-year model to get through the process.  After
all, by mid model year I'm sure that they're already feverisly at
work to get the next year's models through the process.  It is
interesting to note however that another combination WAS available to
them but went unused.  Legally, they could have also produced another
2,499 "super" H/Os with the 403 engine and THM350, since that
combination had also been certified in both the 88 and 98 models.
Although I've heard that at least a couple such engineering
prototypes were built, apparently the "bean counters" didn't feel
that there was enough market share left to justify production.
Perhaps they were right, since the 1980 442 option which was
identical to the '79 H/O except for the shifter, sold less than 1000
units.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:27:05 -0400
Subject: Weekend almost disaster

Here's my entry for weekend stories . . .

This weekend started out sucking and Sunday was no different.  Arrive at
 church late, and notice a large, scattered oil mess - and it's path
goes right under my car!!  Dang!  Pop hood, oil is everywhere!!
Thoughts race through my mind, blown gasket, cracked block, what???

Remember oil gauge line made of uncoilable plastic.  I just bet . . .
start car to check.  Yep, its pumping like the Beverly Hillbillies' oil
geyser. Shut off.  Check stick, down 1 quart.  Dump quart in, drive it
home (6 miles), watching oil gauge - luckily (?) the tube wasn't
completely broken off.

Get it home . . . shut it down, had run ok.  Remove ******* brittle
plastic oil gauge line and tee for idiot light sensor, reinstall idiot
light sensor, add 2.5 qts oil.  Let cool.  clean up oil on driveway.
Wipe off belts, proceed to car wash to degrease engine.  Ran it about
20 miles - seems fine.


When I opened the box and looked at the oil guage, I was really leery
about plumbing high pressure oil into the passenger compartment,
considering the wonderful coil shape the plastic tubing returns to no
matter how much you try to straighten it.  I should have known better.
I made a strain relief at the tee with a liberal amount of RTV.

I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all the way.
Although I've heard the electrical setups are not as accurate - I
cannot see why.


Maybe this experience can save someone else some grief, or a blown
engine.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:40:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 4 Speed 1979 H/O?

l
>that there was enough market share left to justify production.
>Perhaps they were right, since the 1980 442 option which was
>identical to the '79 H/O except for the shifter, sold less than 1000
>units.

A few other ~minor~ differences are there also, mainly the header panel
and tail lights.  There were 886 produced according to my research with
346 white. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Currently searching for a 93-96
Z/28 or Trans Am 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, no t-tops ( Actually a
4-3-1 W-30  in reality)

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:47:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

At 02:27 PM 11/18/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's my entry for weekend stories . . .
[snip of the eternal story: man loves car, man gives car oil,  car loses
oil, man forgives car and blames himself, man changes to electric oil
gauge] >I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all the
way.  Although >I've heard the electrical setups are not as accurate -
I cannot see why.

I run an electrical guage; the main deficiency is that the sweep of the
needle is much smaller than a mechanical. In reality, however, +/- 5psi
won't make much difference if your pressure is high enough anyway; if
you're courting 10psi, then you've got bigger problems than your oil
gauge.

View an street-car oil gauge as a helpful indicator of trends in your
engine quality. As long as you are above 25psi most of the time, you're
all set. You want to make sure your pressure doesn't *drop* as your rev
the motor; 10psi/1,000rpms is a good guide, but not an absolute measure
(how often are you above 4000 rpm in daily driving, anyway? If you drive
in a town with other people, I bet you can measure this in tens of
seconds per week).

One other note on oil pressure. While I know it is a rule that pressure
should increase with rpm, I always wondered why. Is it because of the
increased load, which would tend to wipe the oil out from between the
journal and the bearing, such that more pressure is required? Is the
increase of  load a direct or proportional relationship?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:59:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

<First part of David's terrible Sunday snipped>

> Get it home . . . shut it down, had run ok.  Remove ******* brittle
plastic > oil gauge line and tee for idiot light sensor, reinstall
idiot light

<Rest of how David solved his near disaster snipped>

> I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all the way.
Although > I've heard the electrical setups are not as accurate - I
cannot see why.


There was an aftermarket mechanical oil pressure guage in Big Red when I
bought her -- a three gauge package actually, with temp and volts -- and
the line was one of those plastic lines.

One hot summer day, I was driving home from work on the Pike, when I did
my every-30-second-glance-at-the-gauges, and I saw Zee-ro oil pressure!
:O

Did the immediate changing of two lanes to get to the breakdown lane --
and unlike most Mass. drivers would've, I signalled and verified no one
was in fact *in* those other two lanes  -- and popped the hood.  Like
David, I found that the culprit was the plastic line... however, in this
case what had happened was that it had melted at one point (due to it
proximity to one of the exhaust manifolds.  I know, I know, I shoulda
moved it.  It was like that when I got her, and I was gonna get around
to doing it...

Luckily, it had melted such that the line was sealed.  I wonder if it's
made to do that? I verified I had plenty of oil, and fired her back up,
sitting for a few minutes carefully listening to the engine, to convince
myself that in fact there *was* oil pressure... no, the idiot light
isn't hooked up. I never got aroung to replacing the sensor that the
previous owner yanked to put in the line for the gauge -- he didn't want
to take the time to do it right and find another point to hook it up.
Anyways, the engine sounded OK, so I went home, stopping at the parts
place on the way.

I replaced the plastic line with a *copper* line made for the purpose.
It was there right next to the cheaper plastic line.  I put it in,
plumbing it correctly away from the exhaust manifold :) , and it worked
(and works) like a charm.  No leaks.

I've also heard that mechanicals are more accurate... perhaps because
it's a direct measurement of oil pressure by the gauge, rahter than an
approximation done by a sending unit.  I dunno, I get the impression
that most folks who use an oil gauge are just trying to get an idea of
how their oil pressure is at any given time (e.g. good, low at idle,
etc), as opposed to quantifying absolute oil pressure.

Sorry for the long-winded response; I just wanted to give an account of
my similar experience...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:00:23 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Old's for sale.

I believe that you could get a Cutlass with the 260 V-8 and a 5 speed
manual transmission in 1977.  That may have been the standard
combination in the 442 option.


          I thought the 5 spd (Borg Warner T-50, right?) was only
          available with the 231 ci Buick V6 (a friend of mine had a
          76 Starfire with this combo).  I have the dealer brochure
          from 1978 which lists V6-5 spd setup as the base powertrain
          in the 442 that year :(.  I guess that would make it a 2-2-1
          (or maybe a 5-2-1 if you go back to the original
          nomenclature).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:53:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Old's for sale.

>
>I believe that you could get a Cutlass with the 260 V-8 and a 5 speed
>manual transmission in 1977.  That may have been the standard
>combination in the 442 option.
>
     Musta been a ~real~ powerhouse!  If I remember right, my 403 was
drilled for a pilot.  ~That~ would have been fun in there...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:46 -0400
Subject: Re: It is quiet around here

Hi all,

I don't think I received any e-mails today from the olds list.  This
is spooky!

Chris Sparks
68 442

BTW  I saw a 69 convertible ?442?Cutlass on Saturday in Long Beach
California.  Wow-wee-wow.

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:06:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's and a heartbreaker

> First, on the Omega thread... ever notice the first letters in
> that body style?

> Nova   (Chevy)
> Omega  (Olds)
> Ventura (Pontiac)
> Appolo (Buick)
>
> They spell "NOVA".  Think they planned it that way?

	Or, backwords they spell  "AVON".  |)  Or you could make
"VONA"...whatever that is...
	
		
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:06:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Old's for sale.

I believe that you could get a Cutlass with the 260 V-8 and a 5 speed
manual transmission in 1977.  That may have been the standard
combination in the 442 option.
*****
Musta been a ~real~ powerhouse!


*****
I don't know what difference (if any) that the 5-speed would have
made, but my wife had a '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham with the 260 and
an automatic, coupled to a 2.41:1 differential.  Acceleration was
nearly measured in fortnights, but fuel mileage was fantastic once
you got her moving.  We drove back to Ann Arbor from the west side of
Chicago once, on a half tank.  As I recall, the actual figure was
nearly 31 miles per gallon.  I think that the strong tailwind and
drafting that empty flatbed truck for 200 miles helped, but that's
still pretty good efficiency.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:15:51 -0400
Subject: A very sad story about fire

I have a friend here in Michigan that works for the YMCA.
He owns a 72 442 convertible small block car.
Since he has owned it, he has had two accidents
with the car trashing the OAI hood.  But to no
avail, he kept on rebuilding the car to show
condition.  On Friday, a 1986 Ford Tempo caught on
fire and also caught the car next to it on fire.  The
car next to the Tempo :( yes the 72 convertible.
The hood melted, the interior is gone and the body panels
are warped.  This car is toast.  Thank goodness, that he has
insurance on the car, but nothing can replace the good times
with the car cruising and all the labor on rebuilding a pristine
car.   Thought all you should know a sad story with no happy
ending.

W MACHINES
(Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:53:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

> I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all the way.
Although
> I've heard the electrical setups are not as accurate - I cannot see
why. > David Brown

Hi Dave:
I've been using a set of Auto Meter electrical gauges (oil, temp, volt)
in my Ninety-Eight for four years now with no problems at all.  As far
as I know they're accurate.  They indicate about what I expect the info
should be.  With a bit of fiddling, you can tee in the idiot oil light
sensor along with the presure gauge sensor for a more certain set-up ...


Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

Ouch!!!
Killed by a Tempo, now that's sad!
Wasn't there a recall on those for something with the electronics?

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (I keep a 20 lb fire extinguisher in my trunk) Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:33:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 1964 F-85 Cutlass Sports Coupe

 "Robert M. Nevins II" <nevinsr@voyager.net> wrote:
 >A couple of weeks ago I sent out my introduction.  My system crashed
and
 >I lost all the responses.  I have a 1964 F-85 Cutlass Sports Coupe.
 >It's my pride and joy.  I'm interested if any of you out there have
any
 >information about this year and model, and it's value.  I've been to
 >many a car show, and I have not yet to locate one. I need a few parts,
 >like a left rear backup light, maybe a rear bumper (the chrome is
 >peeling off this one), etc.

 As for the rear bumper, if yours is in good condition, you should
 consider just getting it rechromed.  rechroming cost $100-150 and will
 render a bumber "like new".  A good bumper shop can also straighten
 a dent, bend or ding.  I had a hole (not from rust) in mine (on a
 crease!!) that was repaired to look new.  you won't find a NOS (New
 Old Stock) bumper, and any junkyard items would probably need to be
 rechromed anyhow.  I know of a good bumper shop in Atlanta if you
 can't find one in your area.  I also know of a junkyard that has about
 3-4 64 2doors here in GA.

 As for value, a non-ragtop, non-442 2door Cutlass might be worth $3000
 in very-good to excellent condition.  $4000 if its showroom.
 In okay condition, $1500-2000,  a v8 would fetch more than a v6.
 These are ballpark prices that reflect what I've seen in the 64-69
 Cutlass price range in North Georgia for the last 5 years or so.

 I sent a lengthy response to your first message, I'll see if its still
 on disk and send it to you offline.

 I have a 64 Cutlass.  I've had it 10 years now, and I know a good bit
 about 'em, so if you have any questions,,,,, fire away!

 Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
 http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
 Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car



------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:46:50 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster

Luckily it melted closed!  Using cooper line sounds much better -
thanks.

I guess you could use a laptop to monitor the oil pressure, do some
quantitative analysis, map versus last month, uhhmm . . . snaps out of
it - must be the oil fumes still having an effect.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- --------------------
<snip>
I replaced the plastic line with a *copper* line made for the purpose.
It was there right next to the cheaper plastic line.  I put it in,
plumbing it correctly away from the exhaust manifold :) , and it worked
(and works) like a charm.  No leaks.

<snip>
I get the impression that most folks who
use an oil gauge are just trying to get an idea of how their oil
pressure is at any given time (e.g. good, low at idle, etc), as opposed
to quantifying absolute oil pressure.

<snip>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:41:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

>Remember oil gauge line made of uncoilable plastic.

>Remove ******* brittle plastic
>oil gauge line

>When I opened the box and looked at the oil guage, I was really leery
about >plumbing high pressure oil into the passenger compartment,
considering the >wonderful coil shape the plastic tubing returns to no
matter how much you >try to straighten it.  I should have known better.
>I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all the way.

There is copper line available for this application.  They sell it
around here at the local hardware store.  Every oil pressure gauge I
have ever bought had that plastic line, I always replaced it with
copper.  Never had any problems.

I've also heard that electrical is not as accurate, but I don't think it
makes a big difference to Joe Carguy out on the road.  As long as you
can get a general idea of your oil pressure within a few psi, you should
be OK. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:54:54 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

In a message dated 96-11-18 16:36:34 EST, you write:

<< Ouch!!!
 Killed by a Tempo, now that's sad!
 Wasn't there a recall on those for something with the electronics?

 Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
 Clayton (I keep a 20 lb fire extinguisher in my trunk) Pierce >>
dont know about the recall, he was working so he was unaware the car
was on fire until the Fire Dept came inside looking for him.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:21:33 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

That is awful.  You just never know when something terrible like this
could happen.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------
<snip>
But to no
avail, he kept on rebuilding the car to show
condition.  On Friday, a 1986 Ford Tempo caught on
fire and also caught the car next to it on fire.  The
car next to the Tempo :( yes the 72 convertible.
The hood melted, the interior is gone and the body panels
are warped.  This car is toast.  Thank goodness, that he has
insurance on the car, but nothing can replace the good times
with the car cruising and all the labor on rebuilding a pristine
car.   Thought all you should know a sad story with no happy
ending.

W MACHINES
(Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:24:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

At 03:47 PM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 02:27 PM 11/18/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Here's my entry for weekend stories . . .
>[snip of the eternal story: man loves car, man gives car oil,  car
loses >oil, man forgives car and blames himself, man changes to electric
oil gauge] >>I'll never use this kind of setup again - electrical all
the way.  Although >>I've heard the electrical setups are not as
accurate - I cannot see why.

<<snap>>

The oil pump is of the positive displacment type, which means that after
the oil is admitted to the gears it has to go somewhere.  There is an
exact, at least when the system is full, relationship between the
velocity of the engine (RPM) and the VOMUME of oil leaving the pump.  At
low RPM the the volume is low, possible not high enough to keep the
oiling system completely full.  As the RPM increases the entire system
gets full, and as it increases further, it must find some place to go,
under increasing pressure as the escape route becomes more and more
difficult.  The volume that passes thru under normal operating speed,
will finally be met.  After which point the additional oil has no place
to go, so the pressure goes up.  As it is now under higher and higher
pressure, eventually it will force itself out somewhere.  Under the same
pump condition, at least until the pump locks up, you either get volume
or pressure, and the oiling system in an engine is designed for this to
come to a balance.

Cummins did a rather extensive study on what a satisfactory oil pressure
actually is.  They discovered that it was well under 100 psi, actually I
think their figure was in the 25 to 40 psi range.  Above that figure and
it is simply blasted thru the oil system without improving engine
operation. Their purpose was to discern the best value, as all of the
excess o.p. costs h.p., and that it wasted h.p., and $.

Direct action oil pressure gauge units (bordon (spelling?) tube units)
are much more accurate than electrical; but for all practical uses an
electric gauge should perform very well.  Except for accidental oil
loss, and then the idiot light, should suffice, if you need worry about
low oil pressure, you've got problems that the o.p. gauge will never
cure.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:34:16 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> Ouch!!!
> Killed by a Tempo, now that's sad!
> Wasn't there a recall on those for something with the electronics?

If memory serves, those Tempos and a bunch of other Fords were recalled
for fires originating somewhere in the ignition system. As I recall the
circumstances were just as described - the car need not be running or
the key on; it would just ignite due to short circuits.

A sad story, but one not confined to Fords. We had a discussion on here
months ago about engine harness fires in '69 Toros... I think someone
said that they had never seen a '69 Toro in a wrecking yard that hadn't
been the victim of an engine compartment fire.

I gotta get an extinguisher soon!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:37:11 -0400
Subject: Re: It is quiet around here

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> I don't think I received any e-mails today from the olds list.  This
> is spooky!

Apologies to Chris and others... the internet (at least as seen from
this end) seemed to go crazy this weekend. All kinds of addresses were
returning "undeliverable" messages the end of last week and on the
weekend, and I had to unsubscribe several people to keep from getting
inundated with bounced messages. Things seem to have settled down now.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@opihi.ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:32:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

That Cummins figure may be for street-going, non-performance
engines...rememberr that as you build more power, the greater the force
acting on the rod, which forces the rod to try to contact the
journal..without sufficient oil pressure you'll end up damaging your
bearings, etc.

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:05:49 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Old's for sale.

>I thought the 5 spd (Borg Warner T-50, right?) was only
>          available with the 231 ci Buick V6 (a friend of mine had a

>          76 Starfire with this combo).

Probably moves okay in the Starfire, but I'd guess the V-6 to be a
REAL dog in the pre-downsized Cutlass (?)

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@opihi.ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:34:50 -0400
Subject: 4-Speed shifter

Anyone have a Muncie shifter/linkage for sale? I'm looking mainly for
the linkage, which has the correct rods and arms to use with the
bolt-style (rather than the stud-style) shift forks.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:45:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

Hi all,

I have a friend who said to me a long time ago not to get a Toro since
they had a history of leaking.  Is this true?

Please don't flame me.....

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster

     I'm a big electrical gauge fan too.  They're not as accurate
because
     there are two places to induce error--one as the sending unit
converts
     the pressure to a resistance value, and a second time as the gauge
     itself uses that resistance to move a needle.  A mechanical gauge
only
     has the needle part, physically moved by the pressure.  Electrical
     gauges are easier to mount too.  I once put a set of tiny
electrical
     trio gauges up above the rear view mirror on a car.  Looked really
     trick.

     I never did like the idea of plumbing oil (or coolant!) lines
inside
     the passenger compartment.  Esp. after seeing a friend's Nova who's

     oil line came off the gauge (he wasn't a particularly bright
friend,
     left the tube out in the open and the gauge on the center console).

     The pressure whipped the line around the cabin like a fire hose
with
     nobody holding onto it.  His interior looked like a modern art
     painting afterwards.

     Personally, I don't see the need to know *exactly* what pressure
I'm
     developing.  I use the gauges more to note when something is not
     right.  After driving a car for a while you get to know where
"normal"
     is for all your gauges.  When the reading changes, then you look
into
     it further.

     Someone also asked why you get more oil pressure as RPM's
increases.
     I always thought it was simply because the oil pump was pumping
     faster.  It is run off the camshaft and therefore speed up/slows
down
     with the engine.  Am I wrong?


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/18/96 2:07 PM

     I've also heard that electrical is not as accurate, but I don't
think
     it makes a big difference to Joe Carguy out on the road.  As long
as
     you can get a general idea of your oil pressure within a few psi,
you
     should be OK.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:56:30 -0400
Subject: Re:

Ok I am confused.  When looking at the rear tail lights of a 68 442,
they are thin and the bumper has slight idententations to expose them.
This I know.  On 69's was the tail lights longer from top to bottom
with more cut out from the bumper? On 70's what were they?  The reason
I am asking is that whenever I see an Old on the road I can't tell what
year it is.  Any telltale signs I can employ?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:53:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

I have a friend who said to me a long time ago not to get a Toro since
they had a history of leaking.  Is this true?

*****

Leaking where?  And what?

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:56:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> I have a friend who said to me a long time ago not to get a Toro since
> they had a history of leaking.  Is this true?

Unless he is referring to the Qjet (we've all had problems with them
leaking) the answer is NOPE.  The motors don't have any more potential
leak points than any of the other Olds and the transmission/differential
 is pretty much bullet proof.

> Please don't flame me.....

OK, what's your friends email address?   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:50:15 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

>If memory serves, those Tempos and a bunch of other Fords were recalled
 >for fires originating somewhere in the ignition system. As I recall
the >circumstances were just as described - the car need not be running
or the >key on; it would just ignite due to short circuits.

The recall involves replacing the ignition switch with one in which the
terminals are slightly further apart. A group of irate Ford owners got
together to press for this recall, and you will definitely want to check
out this web page (and I kid you not; it's really called):

http://www.flamingfords.com

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:09:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

Mike Frederick wrote:

> Unless he is referring to the Qjet (we've all had problems with them
> leaking) the answer is NOPE.  The motors don't have any more potential
> leak points than any of the other Olds and the
transmission/differential > is pretty much bullet proof.

I think he was referring to the tranny.  Since it is front wheel drive.

> > Please don't flame me.....
>
> OK, what's your friends email address?   ;)

He is a cyberphobe.  Would never consider even using a computer.  If you
are wondering what he does for a living that doesn't come in contact
with
a computer, he is an antique/collectibles dealer.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:10:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Hardtop to Convertible

This got kicked back to me.  I send it off again...


> Hi all!
>
> I wanted to share a folly of mine with the group.  What is a little
> folly among friends.  I contemplated converting my 68 442 hardtop to a
> convertible.  Yes you read it right.  I love convertibles and would
> love to have one.  Someone I know said for $3,000 I could have one.
> After looking at Chris Witt's convertible I don't see how mine could
> be made convertible.  His car's rear quarter panels look different
> than mine.  I can't see where one would cut and have it look good.  I
> probably should just look for a Delta 88 convertible instead.  Just
> my thoughts.
>
> Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:58:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

>Direct action oil pressure gauge units (bordon (spelling?)

Bourdon tube, yes...

>tube units) are much more accurate than electrical;

Well, let's just say they may be more sensitive to fluctuations, since
the pressure of the oil itself is moving the gauge needle. How
"accurate" it is depends on how accurately the numbers on the dial
correspond with the position of the needle.  :-)

>but for all practical uses an electric gauge should perform very well.

Agreed.

>Except for accidental oil loss, and then the idiot light should
suffice,

I've heard horror stories about the pressure line coming apart but have
never had the pleasure myself. Mechanical gauges were used for decades
and as long as the pressure line is routed out of harm's way and secured
properly with compression fittings, it should hold up. Electrical gauges
remove the pressure line risk, but use a completely different design of
fitting at the engine which can itself leak if the diaphragm fails, so
IMHO it's six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. Heck, mid-'70's Olds
were somewhat notorious for shaking their idiot-light switches apart.

>If you need worry about low oil pressure, you've got problems that the
>o.p. gauge will never cure.

Right, and you can monitor oil pressure just fine with either a
mechanical or electrical sender. Either is better than a warning light
alone.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:11:01 -0400
Subject: Re: '82 to 84 88/98 Engine Swap

Okay heres the information I have.  Theres scarcely any reason to prefer
the 700R$ over the 2004R, both will need substantial modification to
survive behind a stout 455 as neither trans is very strong in stock
form. Either way you're looking at over a grand in modifications to get
peace of mind (instead of pieces of trans. ugh that was terrible).  all
700R4's were chevy pattern.  all 2004R's were unibell.

OK, I got a message that they used a 400R4 behind a LT1 which is as
stout as a 455!

Any comments?

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:16:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

At 12:32 PM 11/18/96 -1000, you wrote:
>That Cummins figure may be for street-going, non-performance
>engines...rememberr that as you build more power, the greater the force
>acting on the rod, which forces the rod to try to contact the
>journal..without sufficient oil pressure you'll end up damaging your
>bearings, etc.
>
I think that was how the research developed at Cummins.  I expect that
an old 290 h.p. cummins has subsantially more load (when under load)
than any automobile engine is standard (non-racing) service.

I think they discovered that it is not the oil pressure so much, as the
oil film on the journal, and that has more facets than just the o.p.
that got it there.  Anyway, the Cummins figure was figured under load,
and in their bigger engines, load is considerable.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:20:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

Ok I am confused.  When looking at the rear tail lights of a 68 442,
they are thin and the bumper has slight idententations to expose
them. This I know.  On 69's was the tail lights longer from top to
bottom with more cut out from the bumper? On 70's what were they?
The reason I am asking is that whenever I see an Old on the road I
can't tell what year it is.  Any telltale signs I can employ?

*****
Chris,

On the 1969s, the taillights were taller than they were wide, with
well rounded corners.  I believe that they were also wider at the
bottom, than they were at the top.

The 1970 had two vertical and fairly thin red lenses on each side.

Both the 1971 and 1972 had two taillights on each side, arranged one
above the other.  Each lens was slightly wider than it was tall.  On
the 1972, those lenses were each divided into three openings, making
it appear that there were six square taillights on each side.

This description really needs photographs . . .

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:34:01 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '82 to 84 88/98 Engine Swap

Not the 455s we are running.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- --------------
<snip>
OK, I got a message that they used a 400R4 behind a LT1 which is as
stout as a 455!

Any comments?

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:41:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Thomas Stoner wrote:
> On the 1969s, the taillights were taller than they were wide, with
> well rounded corners.  I believe that they were also wider at the
> bottom, than they were at the top.
>
> The 1970 had two vertical and fairly thin red lenses on each side.
> Both the 1971 and 1972 had two taillights on each side, arranged one
> above the other.  Each lens was slightly wider than it was tall.  On
> the 1972, those lenses were each divided into three openings, making
> it appear that there were six square taillights on each side.
>
> This description really needs photographs . . .

One clarification... the '68 and '69 lights could be described as
mounted in the rear fenders and recessed into the top of the rear
bumpers, but the 70-72 designs are mounted completely *in* the rear
bumper, surrounded by the chrome, and not in the rear sheetmetal at
all.

My vote for best looking? The '68, of course... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: '82 to 84 88/98 Engine Swap

At 07:34 PM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Not the 455s we are running.
>
>David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
>Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
>                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
>
>--------------
><snip>
>OK, I got a message that they used a 400R4 behind a LT1 which is as
stout as >a 455! > >Any comments? > >Cliff Feiler > That's not every LT1
either.  Apparently, in stock form, in a late model Roadmaster, it will
deliver 25+ mpg, and go too.

Doesn't help with the tranny question, though does it.  Howabout a TH
400 in a middleing 455?

Also I put an ordinary TH350 in my '84 Delta 88 when I put the 455 in.
It has been together for almost 75,000 and pulls a trailer a lot.  This
car does have an economy rear axle, which keeps it far away from racing,
but is pleasant as when one wants it to go, it does.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:46:56 -0400
Subject: Wanted

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD587.72F85840
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Any and all Batten Performance parts out there. Also still looking for
69 antenna -Cutlass and 72 Hurst glove box door


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------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:42:36 -0400
Subject: Pet cock

I am in the process of pulling a 455. I don't know if the previous owner
used antifreeze or not and I want to drain the block. The radiator and
associated plumbing is gone but I can't find the pet cock on the engine.
Does it, in fact, exist? Where is it? I need to know cause winter is
coming.

chuck

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:41:21 -0400
Subject: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Anyone else getting mail bounced from KURT W MANNING
<MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu> right back to them? I just got a bunch
of messages that I sent yesterday as undeliverable (glad they didn't go
back to the listserver! Been there, hated that...).
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:44:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Pet cock

At 07:42 PM 11/18/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I am in the process of pulling a 455. I don't know if the previous
owner >used antifreeze or not and I want to drain the block. The
radiator and >associated plumbing is gone but I can't find the pet cock
on the engine. >Does it, in fact, exist? Where is it? I need to know
cause winter is coming.

There's too many possible jokes about a "pet cock", so I won't bother...


There is no petcock (one word) on the block from the factory; rather,
there are two 9/16" hex-headed pipe plugs on either side of the block,
forward of the motor mount. You pretty much have to access them from
below the car.

Yes, you do want to drain the block before pulling it, and then close up
the drains and plug all the passages, since you can't get it all out and
something will leak out (all you can really do is minimize this).
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:05:00 -0400
Subject: Omega transmission

All of this Omega talk brought a question to my mind...

Recently my brother pulled a 305/2-bl. and transmission out of a '77
Omega.  I had assumed that the transmission was a TH-350 since I haven't
seen any reference to TH200's in pre-78's.  When we had the drivetrain
out of the car, I noticed the transmission was stamped 'METRIC'.

Were there metric transmissions in '77?  Or maybe it was replaced along
the way?  I'm hoping that if it is metric, that it's a THM350...

BTW, that Omega could sure move considering it just had a 305 in it...
Does anyone know what the axle ratios were for the '77 Omega?  It sure
seemed quicker than my 86 Cutlass with a 305/4-bl. and 2.78 gears...

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:22:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedometer

> Hey, I've got some indication that a non-PRNDSL speedo is, uh, rare
(for > lack of a better term...).

Nope, they were used in all manual cars and most auto on the console
cars.  I've seen tons of them. - -Dan

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:36:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

buehner wrote:
>
> >>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically
the > >headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on > >either > >>side), >      <<< S N I P >>> > >
Clarification point, here:  Are these pieces 442 specific, convert
specific, > or 442 convert specific, or will standard Cutlass trims be
the same?  I > don't have any leads, but I figured a clarification may
broaden chances for > others to find them...

They are all the same.  I can't remember if the 442 ones are painted
different, but the pieces are the same.  Of course I bring this up,
because I am looking for these also. Unfortunately, I need 2 complete
sets.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:02:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> I think he was referring to the tranny.  Since it is front wheel
drive.

He's w-r-o-n-g.

> He is a cyberphobe.  Would never consider even using a computer.  If
> you are wondering what he does for a living that doesn't come in
> contact with a computer, he is an antique/collectibles dealer.

Ohhh...  He probably said the same thing about the Cord.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:59:06 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> Anyone else getting mail bounced from KURT W MANNING
> <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu> right back to them?

Yeah, I got a whole collection.  Want me to forward them to you?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:43:56 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> Anyone else getting mail bounced from KURT W MANNING
> <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu> right back to them? I just got a bunch
of > messages that I sent yesterday as undeliverable (glad they didn't
go back to > the listserver! Been there, hated that...). >
_______________________________________________________ > Dr. Robert
Barry

Bob,

I got several to me.  Didn't he pay his electric bill or something?  Is
Michigan on strike again?  I never can figure what those Yankees are up
to next.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jefferson Davis.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:49:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

Dan Williams wrote:
>
> buehner wrote:
> >
> > >>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically
the > > >headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on > > >either > > >>side), > > > > They are all the
same.  I can't remember if the 442 ones are painted different, but the >
pieces are the same.  Of course I bring this up, because I am looking
for these also. > Unfortunately, I need 2 complete sets. > > -Dan

Dan,

They are surely the same & not painted any differently.  I don't think
that I have any, but will be on the lookout.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:52:11 -0400
Subject: INFO: Cam specs for PST engine rebuild kits

Last summer, I rebuilt my 403 with a kit from PST (Performance
Suspension Technology), which had the best price by far, and included
very high quality components (no, I'm not connected with the company,
nor do I get free parts for saying this; just a satisfied customer).

I specified the "high-performance cam" option for this engine (I think
for $40 more), and they had a cam with the specs I wanted. If anyone
else was interested in their kits, they sent me a cam spec card for all
the cams they sell as options (I think all are only $40 over the base
complete rebuild kit price of $445). Here are the specs of the available
cams (if you've seen a cam card before, you can figure out what the
specs are- lift at lobe, at valve, duration, duration at .050", degree
specs for the very necessary process of degreeing in your cam, and lobe
separation): -
------------------------------------------------------------ CL-1072PK
INT .245 .392 250' 184' 13'ATC 17'ABC 35' Hyd. 105'
          EXH .265 .424 260' 194' 32'BBC 18'BTC          115'

CL-1073PK INT .265 .424 260' 194'  8'ATC 22'ABC 45' Hyd. 105'
          EXH .280 .448 270' 204' 37'BBC 13'BTC          115'

CL- 976PK INT .280 .448 270' 204'  5'ATC 29'ABC 51' Hyd. 107'
          EXH .295 .472 280' 214' 44'BBC 1O'BTC          117'

CL-1012PK INT .280 .448 270' 204'  4'ATC 28'ABC 47' Hyd. 106'
          EXH .295 .472 280' 214' 49'BBC 15'BTC          122'

CL-977PK  INT .295 .472 280' 214'  0'BTC 34'ABC 61' Hyd. 107'
          EXH .310 .496 290' 224' 49'BBC 5'BTC           117'

CL-1071PK INT .305 .488 284' 218'  4'BTC 34'ABC 64' Hyd. 105'
          EXH .305 .488 284' 218' 44'BBC  6'BTC          115'

CL-1074PK INT .310 .496 290' 224'  5'BTC 39'ABC 71' Hyd. 107'
          EXH .325 .520 300' 234' 54'BBC  O'ATC          117'

CL-908PK  INT .296 .474 308' 232'  3'BTC 49'ABC 82' Hyd. 112'
          EXH .296 .474 308' 232' 49'BBC  3'ATC          114'

CL-975PK  INT .297 .475 328' 244' 12'BTC 12'ABC 108'Hyd. 110'
          EXH .297 .475 328' 244' 52'BBC 12'ATC          110'
- -------------------------------------------------------------

You'll note that they offer some factory W-30 spec cams in there as
well. _______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert
Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence
College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: MY4552GO@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:24:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 70 tail lite cutlass

A 70 has 2 vertical slits & has its own bumper. The 71-72 used same
bumper, diff.lens config.

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:36:26 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> > Ouch!!!
> > Killed by a Tempo, now that's sad!
> > Wasn't there a recall on those for something with the electronics?
>
> If memory serves, those Tempos and a bunch of other Fords were
recalled > for fires originating somewhere in the ignition system. As I
recall the > circumstances were just as described - the car need not be
running or the > key on; it would just ignite due to short circuits.

Actually I got my "official recall notice" today for my Mustang and the
tempo is listed on it but only for years 88-93. I wonder if my car will
burn to the ground......

>
> A sad story, but one not confined to Fords. We had a discussion on
here > months ago about engine harness fires in '69 Toros... I think
someone > said that they had never seen a '69 Toro in a wrecking yard
that hadn't > been the victim of an engine compartment fire. > > I
gotta get an extinguisher soon! > Hmm.. engine fires in '69 Toros, I'll
have to go checkout the wrecking yards, maybe I'll find some nice "C"
head 455's..:)

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: MY4552GO@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:37:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Pet cock

I just pulled a 455 out of 70 delta, tore it down and found no pet cock
on the block but I would imagine if you drain as much out as you can and
leave the system open it should be alright. Although, I live in Indian
Rocks Beach Fla. and I've got the windows open and ceiling fans on hi
tonite, good luck its a GREAT motor!

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:00:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster

In a message dated 96-11-18 17:51:22 EST, you write:

<< I never did like the idea of plumbing oil (or coolant!) lines inside
      the passenger compartment.  Esp. after seeing a friend's Nova
who's
      oil line came off the gauge (he wasn't a particularly bright
friend,
      left the tube out in the open and the gauge on the center
console).
      The pressure whipped the line around the cabin like a fire hose
with
      nobody holding onto it.  His interior looked like a modern art
      painting afterwards. >>

<ROTFLMAO>
Whew.....    Ok, I'm off the floor now, and doing much better.  Just
came across as really funny since as I was reading itI could picture a
few guys in a car a little more than shocked to hell as this happens.

Chris Ruper.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:00:05 -0400
Subject: Junkyard directions for Olds. parts... with a hitch...

Ok., I've had requests for directions to this junkyard I found in South
Beloit, Wis., and I will post them as best I can, but this place is
really out of the way (just a FYI thing).  I will say one thing, it may
be best, that if you're planning on traveling here (for any distance),
E-mail me, and get my phone #, at least that way if you need some help
getting there, I can help out, rather than a wasted trip.  I also can't
say that the yard's phone # would be in the book, or that alot of people
would know where it's at when asked.

One thing (the hitch I mentioned).  There's a decent 1982 Olds. Calais,
T-tops, etc. in a dark blue color out there, and I'd like it to stay
there, I you don't mind.....

I am planning on going out there this coming weekend to look the car
over good, and possibly make an offer on it, if it's in decent shape at
all (I've already figured that even if I paid $200-300 bucks for it, I'd
be doing good, since I'm looking for the original style rims (had 3,
possibly 4 on it, and I was quoted 15 for the rims and $5 ea. for rings
and caps they may have), it had a gauge pack (gotta be worth $50 of
better), had the center console, and shifter (prob. another $50 there,
at least), plus I'm eyeing the bucket seats, and doors (with power
locks, and windows, etc.).  It's prob. gonna be a hard thing to pass up
with what I want out of it anyways.

Here goes....

You need to be on I-90 through Illinois to start, and get off at the
South Beloit exit (route Il. 75) and follow it into town until you get
to a Holiday Inn (and red lights).  Turn Left onto Hwy. 251(dir. would
be south) and follow it about a mile to Prarie Hill Rd. ('bout a mile
So. of Holiday Inn, and there a junk yard called Erickson's there), turn
right onto Prarie Hill (head west) and follow it about 2-3 miles until
it tee's with another road (South Bluff, which is just after you cross
ther river).  At this point you want to turn right (head north) and go
that way for 2 miles until you see a grade school on your left side.  I
can't remeber the name of the street, but you want to take the street
right after, which runs right along the north end of the school.  You
turn left onto this roadand follow it straight until you come to another
tee, where you want to turn left, and then make the first left (which
goes down a hill, and right to the yard).

Hope this helps.
BTW, I'll post more "finding" out there, as I can/when I can.

Chris Ruper.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:50:15 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>>
>> Anyone else getting mail bounced from KURT W MANNING
>> <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu> right back to them?

...And I thought my ~checkbook~ was in rough shape...   Boy these things
can bounce!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dan Burke <dburke@magicnet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:32:45 -0400
Subject: RE: HEI Conversions, Air Cleaner

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5B1.BBB43DE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



>Anybody know if the HEI distributor will fit under a stock '69 350 4bbl
= air >cleaner? >-- Well on my 67, it does not fit. I don't know if the
air cleaners are the same size or not.

My stock 70 cutlass 4bbl air filter housing did not fit either.  I had =
to cut a notch out of the bottom of the air filter housing, about 1 inch
= high and 1 inch deep.  This hole is relatively small and does not
affect = air filter operation.  It is invisible except when you pull off
the = cover.  Then you can see the distributor cap and several spark
plug = wires.  I leave the extra opening/hole into the air cleaner open
in the = summer time (11 months long down here in Orlando) and cover the
hole = during the winter.

Dan Burke
70 Cutlass Conv.




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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5B1.BBB43DE0--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #371
********************************
 
