To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/26/96 11:59:32 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #312


oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, 26 September 1996    Volume 01 : Number 312


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:58:21 -0300
Subject: Types of Oil Dipsticks

How many different kinds of Olds oil dipsticks are there?  I would assume 
there is a special one for Toronado pans?  If there is, what is the 
difference?

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:48:22 -0300
Subject: RE: Taxation and Title Searches

> There is no sales tax.

Quite true.  Just don't plan on owning a house, they gitcha in property taxes
up theyah in Cow Hampshire, so I hear :)  ...even worse than down here in
'Taxachusetts', if that's possible.

> 
> $31.20 to the state for all cars.  $11.00 to the town for my '72 Cutlass 
> Cruiser.  Come to NH to register your cars!

Down here in Framingham, I pay $5 to the town in excise tax for Big Red,
$7.50 for the '91 Mazda, and $28 for the '89 Caddy.  Hell, I'd pay $28 for
Big Red's Exorcism Tax -- definitely it's worth more'n the Mazda -- but
$5 is okay :) ... surprised they value the older Caddy (did the same thing
to my ol' 88 Brougham) multiple factors above the newer Mazda... well, mebbe
I'm not *too* surprised.

Plus, NH is stickier than most other states at inspection time, particularly
on rust holes, regardless of size. I like that comment someone made about
how duct tape is known as 'N.H. Chrome' :)

> Same, but for some reason they insist on not using the gross weight 
> in the door panel on the car.

Does that gross weight include maximum payload, like in a p.u. truck?



Tim (Just Another Mass-hole) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:31:41 -0300
Subject: RE: Taxation and Title Searches

NH state and town registration fees start high and drop for the next 4 - =
6 years if I remember correctly. Somewhere around the 6 year mark, I =
bottomed out at a combined fee of 60.00. I was told that it would not go =
any lower than that. Its also nice that we just deemed emissions testing =
unconstitutional, which cut the annual inspection process by 15.00 per =
year. (I heard that these machines cost a bundle, and now these garages =
are stuck with them?) Now we just have to deal with an annual inspection =
fee which can run from anywhere between 8.00 and 15.00. I remember when =
we were on a 6 month state inspection cycle... oops aging myself here.=20

- ----------
From: 	Roger M. Borlase[SMTP:BORLASE@gordonc.edu]
Sent: 	Tuesday, September 24, 1996 4:05 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: Taxation and Title Searches

>Keep in mind the difference between annual registration fees, and sales =
tax=20
>payable only on a transfer of title... sounds like the N.H. annual=20
>registration based on "value" is a pretty close approximation of the=20
>red/blue book value system for tax purposes. Don't know if I'd like =
that=20
>either.

There is no sales tax.

$31.20 to the state for all cars.  $11.00 to the town for my '72 Cutlass =

Cruiser.  Come to NH to register your cars!

>Up here your annual registration fee is based upon the car's weight.=20

Same, but for some reason they insist on not using the gross weight=20
in the door panel on the car.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:11:13 -0300
Subject: 86 Salon engine?

Hi, I want to thank Tom L. & Joe P. for the information about the 305 vs
307.  
I broke down the Vin number last night and it is a Y so therefore its a
307 Olds engine not a Chevy 305.  :) I'm glad for that.  There seems to
be no comparison for durability between the two engines, assuming normal
maintenance is followed. 
She hesitates now on acceleration and cuts out some times at idle,
probably carb, with that many miles.
A little about the car:
I'm not really familiar with the car but seems most people I spoke to
kind of  look at me and say "you mean Cutlass Supreme". No a Salon! I
like having something different!  
 
She is a 2D, has reclining bucket seats, T-Tops(which were leaking until
I added gasket material) there is one rust spot under the passenger
T-Top by the corner post, I can't tell the extent of the rusting,:(
center console/auto, 
It is two tone Gray/Gray interior.  
This weekend I'll be replacing the plugs,wires,dist cap & rotor.  Next
weekend I'll maybe replace the Carb depends how she is running after the
plugs and wires.

I'm going to try the Red Line "Water Wetter" this weekend also will let
you know the results. supposed to drop the temp about 10 to 15 deg.

Jim Howes
I'll be wavin cursing in the Salon:)

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:41:19 -0300
Subject: rallye pack guage swap

    I was wondering if anyone has ever swapped in the rallye pack guage 
cluster from an '80s cutlass?  Right now i have the basic sweeping speedo 
with fuel guage.  I bought the guage package back in August and had my 
mechanic try to install it for me.  He couldn't quite figure out the 
wiring harness.  So i was hoping someone out there could either tell me 
of a shop manual that has extensive coverage of the harness or has done 
this project and might be able to give me some advice on this.
    

Thanks in advance,

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Michael Calvo" <mcalvo@hologic.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:02:08 -0300
Subject: Resto Advice Needed 

     
        Any recommendations on what paint (color and product) to use on my 
     '70 442 W30's rearend? I've sandblasted and painted it with POR15, but 
     that product recommends being topcoated and I'm not sure even what the 
     correct color would be? (gloss or flat? mix my own?)
     
     Michael
     mcalvo@hologic.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:35:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

At 01:07 AM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi folks ...
>Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
>cid.).  It started leaking (gasket area around the bottom part of the pump)

That might actually be coolant coming out from your weep hole because your
bearing in there is going, but whatever the case, you're replacing it anyway.

>Any advice, suggestions, horror stories on these replacements?  It looks
>pretty straightforward to me ... Thanks ...

It is straightforward. As Mike mentioned, you can get more room if you
remove the radiator (which you have to drain anyway); just watch out for the
tranny cooler fittings, which are probably rusted tight onto there. If they
don't budge, leave the radiator in place (unless you have a flaring kit and
can bend up some replacement line; not too hard, but a pain nonetheless).

Also, drain the block by removing the 9/16" headed pipe plugs on the side
(either in front of or behind the motor mount). At that point, you can
replace these with standard radiator petcocks to make the job easier the
next time around (bend the ears up toward the opening to get better
clearance to the block on them, if you do this).

KEEP TRACK OF THE STUDS/BOLTS! There are two main sized bolts holding the
water pump on. The four 3/8" headed bolts (two at top, two at bottom) just
go into the timing cover plate; they are all the same size. The other bolts
are all pretty unique: long, short, long w/stud, short w/stud, etc.,
depending upon your accessory brackets. Just make a little diagram, or
better yet, get a square of cardboard (box the new water pump came in is
good to use), poke a couple holes in it that mimics the pattern of the bolts
on the water pump, and stick the bolts into those holes as you remove them.
That way, there is no mystery or detective work when you go to put
everything back on.

Go easy on the gasket sealant! The excess can get into your coolant stream
and gunk things up (radiator, thermostat, etc.) Also, it helps to degrease
the front of the motor before you start, *especially* the p/s pump! That
bugger has so many nooks and crannies that you'll get greasy anyway, but at
least you can minimize this. The p/s pump will also have to be unbolted from
the water pump, and likely from everywhere else so that you can swing it out
of the way (wire it up somewhere to keep it put).

SAVE YOUR FAN STUDS! You don't want to take off the old water pump, bring it
in as a core-exchange when you pick up the new one, go to put the new pump
on, and _then_ remember that the studs to mount the fan are still stuck in
your old water pump. If they don't come out with the nut (which often
happens), tighten two nuts together on the stud, and loosen the stud using
the inner nut (standard trick).

This really isn't a hard job at all. If you had a puller and some 3/4"
fine-thread rod, I'd suggest pulling the harmonic balancer and changing the
timing chain at the same time (you'll already have most of the stuff off the
motor at that point anyway). Heck, you could borrow mine if you were nearby.

Oh, the fuel pump is a cinch; again, go very light on the gasket sealant.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:35:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Wagon Search 

At 01:37 AM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have an acquaintance looking to buy a '65-'72 Vista Cruiser.  Wants to
>spend roughly $2500-$3000 and will take a fair condition car with a decent
>body/motor.  Prefers west coast (sorry guys) if possible as he can drive to
>AZ, NEV, CA to look over & take delivery.
>
>Any and all info - leads - etc. is appreciated.  He's checking Hemmings &

Well, since you asked for all leads...

There is a Beige/woodgrain '72 Vista Cruiser for sale down the block from me
for $1200. 

A couple drawbacks for your friend:

1) It is in Providence, RI.

2) It is a typical New England car, with the rear panel rust.

It does move under its own power, though it isn't currently registered. It
is in much better shape than the '72 VC I picked up for $250, but that's not
saying much.

If for some strange reason they might want to look at _this_ car, I could
call and check it out (or if anyone else is interested). I believe that the
price is very negotiable, since they have been looking to sell the car since
at least April.

BTW, if they should buy a car and find they need parts, I parted that '72 VC
and still have quite a number of parts left (yeah, I should probably just
add this note to my sig...)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:35:33 -0300
Subject: IRC

Well, I'm going to make an attempt at getting the Oldsmobile IRC sessions 
going again tonight. I saw the note about anothernet shutting down at the 
end of the month and I guess it's true, so we'll have to find another 
home. I don't think that will be a problem for us and we will let you 
know once we make the change. As of right now we'll still be on 
irc.another.org tonight in #oldsmobile. I'll get there about 8:30 Eastern 
but if you're on the west coast don't despair, get there when you can. 
People tend to come and go thru the evening anyway.

See you there! 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:00:16 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

Esko, that pillow is a great idea!  For long periods of dash diving, it 
would probably be good to have some sort of head mounted lights.  Welder's 
supply store?

The right most odometer bulb socket is loose on my '77 D88.  In addition to 
squeezing the contact together (battery disconnected!), I think I'll try 
dabbing a bit of solder onto the bulb contacts to make the contacts larger. 
I'm thinking the socket contacts will spread eventually.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
> Is there a way to get at them? This one looks like a major job. It looks
>  like it takes a contortionist to get behind the dash from below.

These darn lights have given me problems in a '78, two '79s, an '83 and an
'85.  <snip> If the bulbs are burned, you're OK.  If the sockets
are loose, you have to work a little bit to get them tightened.  Removed the
bulb and inserting a flat heat screwdriver can tighten them if you remember
to turn the opposite was 'cause they come in from the back.  Some times the
bulb is just loose in the socket and you need to pry the socket contacts a
little bit as well a prying the bulb contacts. <snip>

Paul 
Been there, Done that.

------------------------------

From: Michael Jurijew <MJurije1@ent.agt.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:02:58 -0300
Subject: Re: olds club

pete wrote:
> 
> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
>                ~\\ ! //~
>                 +(o o)+
>  *--pete--.o00o.--( )--.o00o.--pete--*
> 
>  ******     Pete Berisoff      *******
>  *      Penticton, B.C. Canada,      *
>  (<:)       1(604)492-6349       (>:o)
>  *******    pete@awinc.com     *******
>  *******     pete@img.net      *******



One here in Edmonton, Alberta!


'77 Olds Cutlass Supreme
'84 Chev Monte Carlo
'93 Saturn SL1

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:34:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

Keep the water pump for a cheap backup (clean, lube, preserve in plastic - 
won't rust or seize up).  Because it is original and a factory casting, it 
might be a sought after part.  Maybe someday?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -----------
Hi folks ...
Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
cid.).  <snip>
Any advice, suggestions, horror stories on these replacements?  It looks
pretty straightforward to me ... Thanks ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eon.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:16:01 -0300
Subject: Re: olds club

Hey Pete, I'm from Edmonton, Alberta.

pete wrote:
> 
> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
> 

SG Hartfelder
Edmonton, AB  CANADA

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:28:01 -0300
Subject: RE: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88

At 07:53 09/25/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I am NOT a small guy. I weigh some 100 kilograms and am 177 centimeters long.
>If I can do it so you can do it as well.

>* Esko Ilola                                 *
>**********************************************
>* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
>**********************************************
>

Can someone convert that to cubits? ;)

Brad '68 C/S Convt

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 06:22:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 Salon engine? 

     Hooray, another convert!
     
     A common failure for stock high-mileage Olds small blocks is the 
     timing gears.  They're made of nylon and tend to wear.  I asked my 
     local Olds dealer and they recommended changing the timing gears/chain 
     at 100-120k miles, or even more, depending upon how well the engine 
     has been maintained.  Every rebuild kit I've ever seen for an Olds 
     uses metal timing gears, so if it's been rebuilt, no problem.
     
     As for the hesitation problem, try adjusting your TPS.  Worked wonders 
     on my 307 ('84 Hurst/Olds).  Cured both a rough idle and a serious 
     hesitation.  A fairly easy procedure if you have a digital voltmeter.  
     E-mail me if you need details, but you should be able to find the 
     procedure in any manual.
     
     I'm using Water Wetter in mine, it seems to have helped but it's hard 
     to say since I changed the thermostat at the same time.  I'd be 
     interested to hear your results where you're only changing one 
     variable at a time.
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 86 Salon engine?
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/25/96 9:05 AM

I broke down the Vin number last night and it is a Y so therefore its a 
307 Olds engine not a Chevy 305.  :) I'm glad for that.  There seems to 
be no comparison for durability between the two engines, assuming normal 
maintenance is followed. 
She hesitates now on acceleration and cuts out some times at idle, 
probably carb, with that many miles.

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:43:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace

At 14:35 09/25/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>At 01:07 AM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hi folks ...
>>Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
>>cid.).  It started leaking (gasket area around the bottom part of the pump)

>snip<

>tranny cooler fittings, which are probably rusted tight onto there. If they
>don't budge, leave the radiator in place (unless you have a flaring kit and
>can bend up some replacement line; not too hard, but a pain nonetheless).

Any suggestions for removing the tranny fittings that are rusted?


>snip<

>KEEP TRACK OF THE STUDS/BOLTS!  Just make a little diagram, or
>better yet, get a square of cardboard (box the new water pump came in is
>good to use), poke a couple holes in it that mimics the pattern of the bolts
>on the water pump, and stick the bolts into those holes as you remove them.
>That way, there is no mystery or detective work when you go to put
>everything back on.

Good idea for folks that havent thought of it yet!!

>
>Go easy on the gasket sealant! The excess can get into your coolant stream
>and gunk things up (radiator, thermostat, etc.) Also, it helps to degrease
>the front of the motor before you start, *especially* the p/s pump! That
>bugger has so many nooks and crannies that you'll get greasy anyway, but at
>least you can minimize this. The p/s pump will also have to be unbolted from
>the water pump, and likely from everywhere else so that you can swing it out
>of the way (wire it up somewhere to keep it put).
>
>SAVE YOUR FAN STUDS! You don't want to take off the old water pump, bring it
>in as a core-exchange when you pick up the new one, go to put the new pump
>on, and _then_ remember that the studs to mount the fan are still stuck in
>your old water pump. If they don't come out with the nut (which often
>happens), tighten two nuts together on the stud, and loosen the stud using
>the inner nut (standard trick).
>

Another good idea I never thought of!! (may be standard for you...)

>This really isn't a hard job at all. If you had a puller and some 3/4"
>fine-thread rod, I'd suggest pulling the harmonic balancer and changing the
>timing chain at the same time (you'll already have most of the stuff off the
>motor at that point anyway). Heck, you could borrow mine if you were nearby.
>
>Oh, the fuel pump is a cinch; again, go very light on the gasket sealant.
>
>

Robert,thanks for the good tips.I'm not planning on doing this kind of work
now,but will use the info sometime in the future,I'm sure. Thanks again....

Brad '68 C/S Convt (Not on the road yet,but getting closer...)

------------------------------

From: Bill Gochenour <billg@sjuvm.stjohns.edu>
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:43:13 -0300
Subject: Re: rallye pack guage swap

Barnacle Bill wrote:
> 
>     I was wondering if anyone has ever swapped in the rallye pack guage
> cluster from an '80s cutlass?  Right now i have the basic sweeping speedo
> with fuel guage.  I bought the guage package back in August and had my
> mechanic try to install it for me.  He couldn't quite figure out the
> wiring harness.  So i was hoping someone out there could either tell me
> of a shop manual that has extensive coverage of the harness or has done
> this project and might be able to give me some advice on this.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme

Wiring modifications should only be minimum, the volt guage may be the 
tricky one. Your also going to need to change the oil & temp sending 
units on the motor block. You'll have to get the ones for gauges instead 
of dash lamps. Also are you exchanging the same year instrument clusters?
- -- 
                                                     
Bill !                                         _           _       ___  
                                             /  |        /  |    /  _  \ 
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Aniversary Edition    /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1986 442 The Perfect "10"                /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  / 
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__ 
                                              |_|         |_|   |_______|
                                        
          
      Visit http://yogi-bear.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 9/23)

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:53:09 -0300
Subject: Antenna repair 

At 11:25 09/19/1996 +0000 Katana wrote:

>If you can't get to the antenna via the plastic shield, you could try
>removing the fender. The same happened on my 79 cutlass wagon and it was the
>drive (loop?) that was broken. It's fairly cheap to repair ( replacing the
>drive shaft), but can be a pain in the a** to remove and replace the antenna.
>There are two things inside the antenna housing other than the motor, a gear
>which rotates and pushes the extension unit up or down and the nylon drive
>shaft which is connected to the very top of the antenna. The drive shaft is
>what normally breaks. It should be available from your local GM dealer for
>approx $25.00 Good Luck,
>
>Katana72    It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!        Hastimgs, MN
>

Hello there, Could you tell me how you got the motor open to repair the
nylon shaft? I opened the side that houses the armature,but cant figure out
how to open the side with the gears. This is on a '68 C/S power antenna. Any
help you could give me would be great.Thanks....

Brad '68 C/S Convt with no sounds :(

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:26:23 -0300
Subject: Pump replacement 

Graham,
Good for you on the preventative maintenance. On the water pump be sure you
have the surface it bolts to real, real clean. Really go over it until it's
perfect. Minimize leaks that way. 

While you have the cooling system apart, replace the thermostat and gasket
and any hoses that are old or suspect. Check all the hose clamps too, if
they're old, these are cheap to replace.

As for the fuel pump, if your alternator is on the pass. side, yank it first
as it will give you Much better access to this part for replacement. Don't
know about A/C if you have it (I don't), but if you could move it out of
the way without harming any plumbing, it's probably a good idea. 

While messing with the pump, replace the fuel filter and rubber fuel lines.
Safety first. Also check out the hard line to the carb. Are the fittings
rounded? If so, consider replacing. You will work on them again eventually,
how easy would you like it to be then?

Hope this helps
cf

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:55:45 -0300 
Subject: 3-Hurst/olds for sale around the U.S.A.

Hey guys, found these in www.traderonline.com:

1976 Hurst/Olds "Delta-88" posi 350c.i. $1500.00 Cleveland.

1975 H/O "super condition" $1500.00 Calif.

1979 H/O with a parts car (also a '79 H/O) Georgia.

************  442  *******************
1973-442 455c.i. TH400,no grilles,good hood, some rust,some dents,bench
w/column Mix-n-Match interior (1/2 blk. 1/2 wht.)  $800.00 o.b.o. Seattle
206.432.3830



See ya,
- -Rob Malland '73-442
- -Tacoma,WA   '96 Cutlass Supreme SL














.


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:16:25 -0300
Subject: Looking for advice - kinda long -Reply 

Here's my advice:

Start at $6,000 -- using all the valuable sheetmetal/air/wheels as a lever.
 Woudn't go lower than $5,000 unless it's without sheetmetal/air/wheels. 
Maybe $4,500 as is without sheetmetal/air/wheels.  Then sell
sheetmetal/air/wheels seperately.  If that sheetmetal is NOS, you've got
at least $800 worth right there.  A complete working factory air system
could fetch you another $400 at least, and the wheels (depending on
shape) could get you another $100 - $150.  So if you sold it at $4,500
w/o all the extras then sold the extras, you could still get $6,000.

I may be way off base on the price here, but it sounds like a very nice
car.  I'd look in HMN at comparable cars and base my starting price off
that.  There is quite a few miles on it, but if the car's been well taken care
of, that shouldn't make much difference to someone who just wants a
damn nice yellow convertible cutlass to drive around in.  If I had the
money, I'd pay up to $5,000 or $6,000 for a convertible Cutlass with all
those extra parts.

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:40:20 -0300
Subject: Antenna Straightening 

Anyone have any good ideas on how to straighten a bent power antenna mast?
I thought you might be able to do it with a straight rod on the inside and
insert it and the antenna tube to be fixed insidea another, but am not
sure if there's a better way.

Ideas?
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:46:21 -0300
Subject: HiBeam Short 

Guys,
Thanks for your tips over the last few days on testing this system. I
was at wits end and hadn't thought of disconnecting the hibeams. That's
the next attempt at fix. I also have a few spare switches around which
I'll try in the hunt for a good one.

We'll get to the bottom of this one yet. Even if it requires ( and it
might) a relay. I'm still hoping to avoid that in deference to Olds
engineers of long ago. 

cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:44:12 -0300
Subject: Dash Lights 

One note on this item. There are many peanut lights in mine which insert into
their holders then you slip this assembly into the guage or cluster.

With these lights, it can be a good idea to bend the contact tabs on the
plastic holders up just a bit to make sure there's good contact with the
printed circuit board before inserting them back in. 

When I replaced the harness and guages last week several of the lamps I
used were "out". Turned out it was just that 30 year old tabs had bent
to an out-of-contact position after so many years of use. Rebend and
presto! Quick and easy fix for what _could_ be a short.

May your fixes be so easy.
cf

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:58:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 Salon engine?

At 10:11 AM 9/25/96 -0300, Howes, Jim wrote:
>Hi, I want to thank Tom L. & Joe P. for the information about the 305 vs
>307.  
>I broke down the Vin number last night and it is a Y so therefore its a
>307 Olds engine not a Chevy 305.  :) I'm glad for that.

Thats good. An olds should have an olds engine.......

>There seems to be no comparison for durability between the two engines,
assuming normal
>maintenance is followed. 

Highly disagree. My 305 in my Z/28 has 141,000+ miles and still pulls
consistent low 14's in the 1/4. I have driven 3 cars with 307's and all were
rather dull. But granted, these were in station wagon's and big Delta's. I
am sure they are much more powerful in a Cutlass.  I would put a well built
Chevy 305 up against a well built Olds 307 anyday. Just my Chevy bias
showing through...sorry guys:( 

>She is a 2D, has reclining bucket seats, T-Tops(which were leaking until
>I added gasket material) there is one rust spot under the passenger
>T-Top by the corner post, I can't tell the extent of the rusting,:(
>center console/auto, 
>It is two tone Gray/Gray interior.  
>This weekend I'll be replacing the plugs,wires,dist cap & rotor.  Next
>weekend I'll maybe replace the Carb depends how she is running after the
>plugs and wires.

Sounds like a nice ride. I have seen a few Salon's come into our towyard.
They are kind of the forgotten Cutlass. You always hear of the Supreme and
Calais....
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
88 Iroc Z/28.......................daily driver
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30.........show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25........restoration project
74 Riviera Stage I 455...winter ride

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:30:23 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305

Jason Wrote

>
>At 10:11 AM 9/25/96 -0300, Howes, Jim wrote:
>>Hi, I want to thank Tom L. & Joe P. for the information about the 305 vs
>>307.  
>>I broke down the Vin number last night and it is a Y so therefore its a
>>307 Olds engine not a Chevy 305.  :) I'm glad for that.
>
>Thats good. An olds should have an olds engine.......
>
>>There seems to be no comparison for durability between the two engines,
>assuming normal
>>maintenance is followed. 
>
>Highly disagree. My 305 in my Z/28 has 141,000+ miles and still pulls
>consistent low 14's in the 1/4. I have driven 3 cars with 307's and all were
>rather dull. But granted, these were in station wagon's and big Delta's. I
>am sure they are much more powerful in a Cutlass.  I would put a well built
>Chevy 305 up against a well built Olds 307 anyday. Just my Chevy bias
>showing through...sorry guys:( 


Jason, concerning my bias, I try to be positive toward either car but it
is just my opinion from my experience.  
I also drive a 93 K5 Blazer & an 88 Vette flop-top.  Wouldn't trade
either for another........ Once I get the Salon running smooth I'll
enjoy that for my daily driver.  I'm glad to here you have such good
luck with the Z.  
BTW, I'm gone to replace the carb,  any suggestions?  stay with stock?
Or replace it with  another.

Thanks

Jim Howes
86 Salon.............daily driver
88 Vette Blk on Blk, flop-top .....Sunday driver
93 Blazer K5 ..............When the going gets tough.(Wife daily driver)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:32:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Antenna Straightening

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Anyone have any good ideas on how to straighten a bent power antenna 
> mast?

Buy a new one.  :(  Doubtful you'll ever get all the kinks out of it for 
it to ever work properly again and it'll prolly just jam if you try.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:57:23 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC

Hey Greg,

Since we've got some new members and for some of the doh-doh-heads like 
me who have misplaced it, do you have the info on how to set that up 
available?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:09:40 -0300
Subject: 307 vs. 305

Hey guys,

	Sorry but I'm gonna have to back Jason up on that one.  My `78 Impala 
had approx. 230,000 miles on it before it was rebuilt and it was running then 
(just smoked a little).  Now it has been built (9.5:1 compression, Lunati r.v. 
cam, Carter four barrel, dual Flowmasters, etc.).  I hate to say this, but 
even though I reallly like my '86 442 the Impala can leave it behind (running 
2.41 rear gears and a TH350).  Gotta do something to help the Cutlass real 
soon, any suggestions?  By the way a good size carb. for a small c.i.d. small 
block is a 500 cfm or possibly a 600 cfm, but nothing larger.  Sometimes too 
much is just too much.  I beleive Edelbrock makes a high performance carb that 
should work fine (designed after the AFB).  Don't know about price though.  
There is also a place in California that rebuilds these Rochester Quadra-Jets 
and can even make a new one perform better, you might check them out.  I'll 
have their name and phone number for you by tommorrow morning if you !
 want.

Steve Cannon

P.S.  Hey I like Chevy's too what can I say.  At least I'm not a F**d man.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:03:23 -0300
Subject: RE: olds club

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pete wrote:
> 
> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
> 
> Pete
> 

I form Ottawa Ontario


Chris Urban



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------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:12:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 Salon engine? 

I wouldn't condemn the carb yet.  Get the Olds factory chassis manual 
(local library is a good place).  Run through the diagnosis charts for the 
problems you are experiencing.  Check the Throttle Position Sensor, the 
choke, choke pulloffs, and O2 sensor.  Any of these out of adjustment or 
misfunctioning could be causing the problem.

You would be amazed at the quality [un]control in those smoke blocks.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------

Hi, I want to thank Tom L. & Joe P. for the information about the 305 vs
307.  
I broke down the Vin number last night and it is a Y so therefore its a
307 Olds engine not a Chevy 305.  :) I'm glad for that.  There seems to
be no comparison for durability between the two engines, assuming normal
maintenance is followed. 
She hesitates now on acceleration and cuts out some times at idle,
probably carb, with that many miles.
<snip>
This weekend I'll be replacing the plugs,wires,dist cap & rotor.  Next
weekend I'll maybe replace the Carb depends how she is running after the
plugs and wires.

Jim Howes
I'll be wavin cursing in the Salon:)

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:11:43 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine?

- ----------
From: 	Jason Labay[SMTP:z28cfi@gwis.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, September 25, 1996 1:58 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Cc: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
Subject: 	Re: 86 Salon engine?



>There seems to be no comparison for durability between the two engines,
assuming normal
>maintenance is followed.=20

Highly disagree. My 305 in my Z/28 has 141,000+ miles and still pulls
consistent low 14's in the 1/4. I have driven 3 cars with 307's and all =
were
rather dull. But granted, these were in station wagon's and big Delta's. =
I
am sure they are much more powerful in a Cutlass.  I would put a well =
built
Chevy 305 up against a well built Olds 307 anyday. Just my Chevy bias
showing through...sorry guys:(=20

I have a 307 in a Cutlass (86) (4009 lbs.) and it is still a drag. I =
always thought it was because of all the pollution crap and the weight =
of the car that made it difficult to get out of it's own way. They sure =
do cruise nice on the highway though. I still can't believe that this =
car was shipping with a 6=20
cylinder as the standard back in 86. Z/28 can't be much over 2000lbs if =
that?

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:18:21 -0300
Subject: Re: taxation and title searches

I don't know who sets the "worth" of a car for the govt. but in my 
definition, your Morgan or any car is worth whatever you can sell it for
*note* "what you can sell it for" not "what you would be willing to part 
with it for"!

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:20:28 -0300
Subject: 307 vs. 305

Did some looking and I can't seem to find an Edelbrock for computer controlled 
engines.

Steve

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:22:00 -0300
Subject: Car Show Sat Sept 28, at Urbana High Schools, Maryland

I don't know how many local Olds enthusiast I am speaking to but My
son's School is having a (benefits Sports and band) show.  This is open
to all, Hot Rods, Antiques, Show Cars, Vettes, horse & buggies, You get
the idea.  

There will be food and fun for the adults and kids.

Hours are 09:00 to 17:00, weather looks good right now.

If any one is interested I'll be glad to provide directions, E-mail me
directly.

Location is Rt. 355 & Rt. 80 Urbana, Maryland.  About 15 Min from
Frederick MD.

Thanks 

Jim Howes
86 Salon, wavin and smil'n
>howesj@nasd.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:58:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 Salon carb/engine 

     I would stay with the stock carb.  You'll have a bugger of a time 
     getting anything else to work with the computer controls.  Besides, 
     the Quadrajets work pretty good on these.  Going to something like a 
     Holley might get you a bit more power at WOT, but unless you're drag 
     racing it (in which case you'd yank the computer and plop in a 455 
     anyways :-) ) the drivability of the Quadrajet is hard to beat.  Yes, 
     the Quadrajets can be finnicky at time, and the learning curve is a 
     bit steeper to learn how to tune them, but I think they're worth it.
     
     The carb on there is (I think) around 600cfm right now, so it's not 
     posing a restriction and a bigger carb will be overkill.  I'd just get 
     a manual, some carb cleaner, and a carb rebuild kit and dive in.  Last 
     I checked, rebuilds were around $230 w/ exchange.  Dunno about you, 
     but I'd rather spend a Saturday afternoon rebuilding the carb than 
     spend $230.  If you don't have the factory service manuals, there's a 
     good Haynes book on rebuilding Rochester carbs that is available at 
     most parts stores.  Your hesitation could be the TPS (my bet is here), 
     the accelerator pump, the float level, or an idle circuit that's just 
     dirty inside the carb.  You've only got to remove the air cleaner and 
     drill out one small plug to get at the TPS adjustment, I'd try this 
     first.
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/25/96 11:50 AM

BTW, I'm gone to replace the carb,  any suggestions?  stay with stock? 
Or replace it with  another.
     

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:06:39 -0300
Subject: Found '70 W31 

Found what the seller claims is a 1970 W31.

Has the W25 hood, W35 (?) rear deck spoiler, *and* W27 rearend!

I plan to investigate further, like to see if it's just
a W27 cover or the whole rear end.

Here are my initial observations.

Lots of creative parts under the hood:
No ram air aircleaner, shiny gold one instead
No W31 intake, Holly street dominator instead
No exhmans, has headers
Stickers everywhere underhood- ARP, Crane, Holly, and more!

Interior rough: half black, half white
Botched Sun-in-your-dash tach
Radiocut dash
A few fenders of different colors
Stickers everywhere on the windows... oh boy.

Anyway, to make a long story short, the seller wants $4000.
He was quick to mention that "this car is 1 of 1000," and
that "with a paint job it'd be worth ten grand."

Well, a perfect example may fetch that much, I countered,
IF it had the correct ram-air and engine parts, IF it had
a nice original interior, etc...

I told the guy I'd think about it. I think no more than $2k is
about the right neighborhood for a car that needs this much.
What does everyone else think?


- -Darren Shroeger

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:29:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Found '70 W31

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> Found what the seller claims is a 1970 W31.
> 

For what you described, $2k sounds right.  He has to understand that the
car is worth more with everything original.

Is the block right? How's the body?

And it's one out of 1029 to be exact ;)

Good luck!

Robin

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:00:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Show Sat Sept 28, at Urbana High Schools, Maryland

On 25 Sep 96 at 16:22, Howes, Jim wrote:

> I don't know how many local Olds enthusiast I am speaking to but My
> son's School is having a (benefits Sports and band) show.  This is

Jim, 

Where do you live?  I live in Frederick...

But knowing the area and seeing some of the shows I'm pretty sure 
there won't be any Olds there (unless we get a few from the list).  
My car is hardly showable so....

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:23:13 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC

On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Since we've got some new members and for some of the doh-doh-heads like 
> me who have misplaced it, do you have the info on how to set that up 
> available?

Well, I can only tell you so much. I am a rookie at this too. Jeff Hunter 
posted some instructions earlier this week that were pretty good. But 
I'll tell you what I know.

I'll assume you're using mIRC software which is what I have. Download it 
from the Strouds site. Once you get it installed, you'll need to tell it 
what server you want to reach. Some are listed in it already I think and 
the one you need may already be there.

Tonight we'll use a server called: irc.another.org

If it's not listed on the list of servers in mIRC, you can add it in the 
File/Setup option. I don't think you need to worry about the other 
choices in that box. You will also need to give yourself a nickname in 
that same setup routine. 

Once that's done you can try to connect. I've never had a problem
connecting to anothernet but I recall that other servers aren't always
available. Hope we don't have that problem! 

Once you get that OK, you will need to get to the #oldsmobile channel. 
There are various ways to do this. You can list the active channels with 
the /list command and double-click on #oldsmobile. When you connect with 
mIRC you will get a dialog box listing some channels and you should add 
it there for future reference as well.

With any luck you are now connected and in #oldsmobile. To chat all you 
do is type what you want to say in the command line and it will appear 
after you press Return. 

I think that's about it... at least all that *I* know! Hope to see you.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:29:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Types of Oil Dipsticks 

In a message dated 96-09-25 12:14:46 EDT, you write:

<< How many different kinds of Olds oil dipsticks are there?  I would assume 
 there is a special one for Toronado pans?  If there is, what is the 
 difference?
  >>
 NOPE, the dipstick for a toro is the same for a regular 455 or 350.  The pan
is
deeper, to hold the extra quart, but the fill line is still the same.
 Remember,
Olds pans are 4 or 5 qt. and one in filter.

W Machines

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:19:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Found '70 W31

Darren Shroeger wrote:
>Found what the seller claims is a 1970 W31.

>Has the W25 hood, W35 (?) rear deck spoiler, *and* W27 rearend!

>I plan to investigate further, like to see if it's just
>a W27 cover or the whole rear end.

Darren,

I agree with your estimate, with maybe $3000 being a fair price if:

1)The body is essentially rust-free
2)The rear is truly the W-27
3)The hood is in good shape.
4)You want a W31
5)The red inner fenders are in the car

The OAI parts aren't too hard to find, but $$$$.  I went to "Summer 
Carlisle" with my '70 W-350 aluminum intake strapped to my back, and could 
not generate any interest, and I did not see another one there.  I don't 
know how hard they are to find.  Plan on $500-$750 for the intake and 
probably about the same for a clean original OAI set-up.  Also at Carlisle, 
an NOS LH '70-'72 quarter was $1000, so get yer pocket magnet out and look 
for rust/Bondo...

I think according to my '70 shop manual (or maybe my '69 manual) the W31 has 
a different fuel line routing along the frame than the regular Cutlass.  If 
you have a shop manual, look in the section detailing the fuel line (Fuel 
System chapter?) and look at the diagrams closely.  I think that where the 
line runs under the pass. side body mount area, it takes a strange, 
distinctive bend for the W31 (i.e. labelled "W31 ONLY" in the diagram.  Let 
me know if you don't have a manual and I'll do some research.  If the manual 
is accurate, this might be a quick, though by no means absolute, check on 
the cars authenticity, since this portion of the line is usually 
undisturbed.

Does the current owner have any of the missing original parts?  NOW is the 
time to try and find out who owned the car before the gentleman you are now 
dealing with.  He should know who he got the car from, and they might still 
have original parts hanging around.  Find out who put the Holley intake on 
and you'll know where the W-350 intake went.  If you can trace the car's 
lineage now, you might be inclined to pay more/less for it, depending on the 
results.  You might have enough time to do this if there are not alot of 
people interested in the car.  I waited 8 years to start looking into my 
car's past, and I'm kicking myself for the delay.  Also, if it's an F-85 
W31, I think it's even more rare (?).

Let me know if you have a shop manual
Scott "Deadeye" Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:50:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Advice Needed

At 03:02 PM 9/25/96 +0000, you wrote:
>     
>        Any recommendations on what paint (color and product) to use on my 
>     '70 442 W30's rearend? I've sandblasted and painted it with POR15, but 
>     that product recommends being topcoated and I'm not sure even what the 
>     correct color would be? (gloss or flat? mix my own?)
>     
>     Michael
>     mcalvo@hologic.com
>
- ----------
Michael,

The rearend should be painted gloss black.  I also read an article in Year
One's Restoration Review that recommends GM Reconditioning Black (with
retarder), part number 6609N.  This is a Year One Part PN.  Someone may have
a Ditzler or PPG number.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: Harry Lorencic <hlorencic@alpo.casc.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:10:49 -0300
Subject: RE: Found '70 W31

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From: 	R Mullen[SMTP:r_mullen@Merck.Com]

Darren Shroeger wrote:
>Found what the seller claims is a 1970 W31.

>Has the W25 hood, W35 (?) rear deck spoiler, *and* W27 rearend!

>I plan to investigate further, like to see if it's just
>a W27 cover or the whole rear end.

Darren,

I agree with your estimate, with maybe $3000 being a fair price if:

1)The body is essentially rust-free
2)The rear is truly the W-27
3)The hood is in good shape.
4)You want a W31
5)The red inner fenders are in the car

W-31's had black inner fenders.

The OAI parts aren't too hard to find, but $$$$.  I went to "Summer 
Carlisle" with my '70 W-350 aluminum intake strapped to my back, and could 
not generate any interest, and I did not see another one there.  I don't 
know how hard they are to find.  Plan on $500-$750 for the intake and 
probably about the same for a clean original OAI set-up.  Also at Carlisle, 
an NOS LH '70-'72 quarter was $1000, so get yer pocket magnet out and look 
for rust/Bondo...

I'll add that the carb (7040255) is near impossible to find. I've seen W-350 
intakes
once in a while, but I've never seen the carb anywhere. Also, even if it has 
the 
original engine in it, it may not have the original heads, being they were 
reworked
#6 heads with larger valves.

I think according to my '70 shop manual (or maybe my '69 manual) the W31 has 
a different fuel line routing along the frame than the regular Cutlass.  If 

This is true, in '70, the fuel line routing for the W-31 is different than any 
other A body.
I would think if someone tried to pass off a standard Cutlass for a W-31 this 
is the
definitive place to check. Also, this is not mentioned in the 'spotters tips' 
in the 
'Oldsmobile 442 and W-Machines Restoration Guide'.

car's past, and I'm kicking myself for the delay.  Also, if it's an F-85 
W31, I think it's even more rare (?).

1 in 207

Let me know if you have a shop manual
Scott "Deadeye" Mullen
'70 442

- -Harry Lorencic
hlorencic@alpo.casc.com

'70 Cutlass S W-31






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------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:46:52 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305

> >
> >Highly disagree. My 305 in my Z/28 has 141,000+ miles and still pulls
> >consistent low 14's in the 1/4. I have driven 3 cars with 307's and all were
> >rather dull. But granted, these were in station wagon's and big Delta's. I
> >am sure they are much more powerful in a Cutlass.  I would put a well built
> >Chevy 305 up against a well built Olds 307 anyday. Just my Chevy bias
> >showing through...sorry guys:( 
> 
I don't know about the 305 being much better than the 307. I have gone 
to a few "NHRA" events and one of my favorite classes is stock 
eliminator, and if anyone is familiar with this class you know the rules 
are very strict(no head porting, stock intake and carb etc...) and I 
have seen both late model chevy mailbu's and cutlass' with theses 
engines and both cars seem to be pretty even (mid to late 12's). It kind 
of makes sense though, both cars weight about the same, have the 
same displacement, and have the same modifications.

As far as longevity goes, I don't know, I have never owned Chevy or a car 
with over 100k miles.

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:05:00 -0300
Subject: '70 W31 Info

Harry,
Thanks for the info on the black fender wells for the W31.  To tell you the 
truth, I've never seen a W31, though I once spent about 5 hours driving 
around back roads in the Oswego, NY area looking for a F85 W31 that a very 
reliable source told me he had seen.  Never found it though.

I could swear that I read somewhere that all of the W machines in 70 & 71 
had the red inner fenders.  Oh well, you can't believe everything you read. 
 When you think that there were 4400 or so '70 W30's (?) and around a 1000 
'70 W31's made, every fifth 70' W machine should be a W31.  Yet, I've seen 
several (alleged?) '70 W30's and never a single W31 of any year.  I've seen 
4 Ralleye 350's.  Were there any Ralleyes with the W31 option, or were the 
two options mutually exclusive?
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:20:34 -0300
Subject: Re: rallye pack guage swap

I didn't do a 80 but 2 weeks ago I did an 83 Cutlass. It was not that 
difficult. It was 
not just a sawp either though. I cut the harness from the Rally pac car about 
5 inches 
back so i would have the wire colors.
I then sat at the kitchen table and followed the connections to deturmine 
which wires went to which place. once I had traced them all out i wrote all 
the info on 
a piece of paper. Then I bit the bullet and removed the cluster from my car. 
This one I 
didn't cut of course. All the wires except for one were in a different spot. 
If you take 
a sharp object (I used my test light probe) and slide it in to the connector 
you can 
release the wires. Just plug them into the connector in the proper place and 
you are all 
set. One additional though. You must add two wires one for the oil sender and 
one for 
the water temp. use the same wire from the  idiot light for the volt meter. 
this will 
have both the light and the gauge working. you will have an extra gray wire 
and an extra 
ground just tape them off and tuck them out of the way. The extra gray is a 
second dash 
light wire that you could also use as a tap for extra lights that dim with the 
dash 
lights. Don't over do it though. Also don't forget that you have to use the 
oil and 
water sending units from the rally pac car. They are nessiary for the gauges 
to work. 
They have a variable resistor inside to work the gauge as opposed to a simple 
switch for 
the idiot lights. It took me about 1 1/2 hours once I started on the car to 
get it done. 
This was taking my time. It worked the first time(yes I was supprised). It 
makes a great 
swap and i am very happy with it. If you are interested I saved the color 
codeing and 
will share it with you if you want to e-mail me with an address. It would take 
a while 
to type it in so i could mail it to you. I am not a real good computer artist.


>     I was wondering if anyone has ever swapped in the rallye pack guage
> cluster from an '80s cutlass?  Right now i have the basic sweeping speedo
> with fuel guage.  I bought the guage package back in August and had my
> mechanic try to install it for me.  He couldn't quite figure out the
> wiring harness.  So i was hoping someone out there could either tell me

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:35:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Advice Needed

Michael Calvo wrote:
> 
> 
>         Any recommendations on what paint (color and product) to use on my
>      '70 442 W30's rearend? I've sandblasted and painted it with POR15, but
>      that product recommends being topcoated and I'm not sure even what the
>      correct color would be? (gloss or flat? mix my own?)
> 
>      Michael
> 


Michael,

The only problem you will have w/POR15 is if the sun hits it directly 
for a period of time.  It stays shiny & fine in the underside or 
underhood.  It becomes dull if it is exposed to the sun for a while 
(couple of months).  Why not leave it as shiny black?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:44:31 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Chat Revival?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Now that summers over and things are getting back to normal, maybe it's
> time to revisit the IRC chat sessions we had back in the spring. Thanks
> to Jeff Hunter we have a channel on irc.another.net called #oldsmobile
> and it was lots of fun when we did it last spring.
> 
> The stumbling block seemed to be finding an acceptable time and day to
> meet. I'll throw out the suggestion that we try Wednesdays at 8:30
> Eastern and see if that is any good for others. What do you think?
> 
> To those who haven't done IRC, it is fun if you get a good group to chat
> with and this one was great. If you don't have IRC software I recommend
> mIRC, available for download from Stroud's site on the web.
> 
> Anyone interested in reviving these sessions?
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Yes, I'm interested in starting up the chat site again, just give me the
details on how it works.

Chris M.
'68 442
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: "Douglas P. Vara" <Douglas.P.Vara@ast.lmco.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:40:39 -0300
Subject: Need Help With Headers

I need headers to fit my 1969 442. My car has a 455 with exhaust ports 
that measure about 1.55"X 2.10". I have a 4 speed and A/C. I want 2" 
dia. tubes but I expect that I will have to settle for 1 7/8". I have 
not been able to find any "off the shelf" headers that will be a 
direct bolt on.... Any suggestions?
I have heard that it is possible to modify the Hooker P/N 3202 headers 
to clear my clutch linkage cross shaft. Has anyone ever heard that 
that is possible?

Doug    

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:32:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace

> 
> >KEEP TRACK OF THE STUDS/BOLTS!  Just make a little diagram, or
> >better yet, get a square of cardboard (box the new water pump came in is
> >good to use), poke a couple holes in it that mimics the pattern of the bolts
> >on the water pump, and stick the bolts into those holes as you remove them.
> >That way, there is no mystery or detective work when you go to put
> >everything back on.
> 
> Good idea for folks that havent thought of it yet!!

Brad,

Another way to do this is to put the bolts into the holes of the new 
pump as you take them from the old pump.  When you go to put it back 
together, the pattern is in front of you.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  Nice of you to remember to tell us how it is done.

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:54:41 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305

>
>Jason, concerning my bias, I try to be positive toward either car but it
>is just my opinion from my experience.  
>I also drive a 93 K5 Blazer & an 88 Vette flop-top.  Wouldn't trade
>either for another........ Once I get the Salon running smooth I'll
>enjoy that for my daily driver.  I'm glad to here you have such good
>luck with the Z.  
>BTW, I'm gone to replace the carb,  any suggestions?  stay with stock?
>Or replace it with  another.

Well depending on your funds you could get a nice Edelbrock replacement or
get one off a junkyard car. Only problem with the junkyard one is that it is
probably in need of a rebuild too. The Edelbrock units are factory
replacements and are real nice. My Z runs pretty well. The engine is stock
internally but the usual bolt-on mods, suspension work and gears make it run
good. Concerning my bias I am  sort of equal in preference concerning GM
products, although I lean a little  towards Olds and Chevy. 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 Cross-Fire 305/TH-350...daily driver
81 Camaro....soon to be TPI 383/3spd...street/strip car
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH-350...show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH-350...restoring now

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:55:21 -0300
Subject: Re: FLOWMASTERS ANYONE??

R Mullen wrote:
> 
> A few days ago I posted a note asking for advice on Flowmaster mufflers for
> my '70 442.  No responses to date.  Doesn't anybody out there use Flowmaster
> mufflers on their Olds?
> Scott Mullen
> '70 442

Scott, 
    I've got a set of Flowmasters on my '68 442 and they fit and sound
great.  I got them from Summit and I believe the Part # was FLO-42553.
It all depends on what size inlet you want.  Just give them a call at
(330)630-0230 and they will help you out.

Chris M.
'68 442
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:59:57 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine?

>I have a 307 in a Cutlass (86) (4009 lbs.) and it is still a drag. I always
thought it was because of all the pollution crap and the weight of the car
that made it difficult to get out of it's own way. They sure do cruise nice
on the highway though. I still can't believe that this car was shipping with
a 6 
>cylinder as the standard back in 86. Z/28 can't be much over 2000lbs if that?

I weighed my Z/28 on a truck scale last summer and it was 3,074 lbs. I
assume the scale was pretty accurate. My 80 Cutlass sales brochure says my
442 weighs 3,430 lbs. Are you sure your Salon weighs that much, or is my
book way off? 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 Cross-Fire 305/TH-350...daily driver
81 Camaro....soon to be TPI 383/3spd...street/strip car
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH-350...show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH-350...restoring now

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:01:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Found '70 W31

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> Found what the seller claims is a 1970 W31.
> 

> 
> I told the guy I'd think about it. I think no more than $2k is
> about the right neighborhood for a car that needs this much.
> What does everyone else think?
> 
> -Darren Shroeger

Darren,

That's right!  A car w/this many mods (& silly ones too) may have more 
problems than meets the eye.  2K would be my limit unless it runs 
terrific.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:16:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Flowmaster's

>Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
> The only problem I have had is that they have a tendency to set off >car 
alarms in parking lots.  

Don't you just love how they can test out your buddies alarm? Might be
able to market them for that use!!

Chris M.

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:04:15 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC

I got into the irc.another.org and got pinged but that was as far as I
got, HELP!!

Chris M.
'68 442
cya442@erol.com

------------------------------

From: pete <redeye@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:39:32 -0300
Subject: RE: olds club

Nice to hear from you. Don't get down that way too much for sure..

>pete wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
>> 
>> Pete
>> 
>
>I form Ottawa Ontario
>
>
>Chris Urban
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: "C:\DL\RE olds club"
>
                    

               ~\\ ! //~
                +(o o)+ 
 *--pete--.o00o.--( )--.o00o.--pete--*

 ******     Pete Berisoff      *******
 *      Penticton, B.C. Canada,      *
 (<:)       1(604)492-6349       (>:o)
 *******    pete@awinc.com     *******
 *******     pete@img.net      *******

------------------------------

From: pete <redeye@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:41:40 -0300
Subject: Re: olds club

At 01:57 AM 9/25/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
>> 
>> Pete
>>                     
>>  ******     Pete Berisoff      *******
>>  *      Penticton, B.C. Canada,      *
>
>Hi, well I'm in Toronto (aka The Big Smoke), which is quite a way (happily
>for you) from Penticton.  I spent a week there in 1970, very beautiful
>place, as I remember ... 
>
>Graham Stewart
>Toronto, Canada
>graham.stewart@utoronto.ca
>
>Well I don't think I would trade places with you..I love it here. Gonna
retire next year and just go fishin' forever!\

                    

               ~\\ ! //~
                +(o o)+ 
 *--pete--.o00o.--( )--.o00o.--pete--*

 ******     Pete Berisoff      *******
 *      Penticton, B.C. Canada,      *
 (<:)       1(604)492-6349       (>:o)
 *******    pete@awinc.com     *******
 *******     pete@img.net      *******

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:43:07 -0300
Subject: RE: olds club 

At 03:03 PM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>pete wrote:
>> Anyone in this group from Canada?? Alberta, B.C.???
>
>I form Ottawa Ontario
   ^^^^
   Wow, it must be tough to get pants that fit...   ;)

>Chris Urban

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:43:10 -0300
Subject: Removing frozen tranny cooler lines (was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace) 

At 12:43 PM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>Any suggestions for removing the tranny fittings that are rusted?

If you want to save the rust-frozen cooling/brake line, you'll need LOTS of
penetrating oil, a *good* flare wrench, and lots of patience.

The problem is not the fitting freezing in the radiator (or in the wheel
cylinder, if you are doing brakes; same principle applies), but rather the
line freezing/rusting to the fitting, such that when you turn the fitting
you also turn/twist the line. If it twists too much, you can spring a leak
(especially if it is corroded).

First try removing the fitting _carefully_; despite apparent rust, it may
come free. If the line begins to twist as the fitting turns, STOP RIGHT 
THERE!!!

Soak the fitting in penetrating oil, soak it the next day, and then soak it
again. Try to get all the oil in that space between the fitting and the line
(since that is where your problem is).

Then, work the line back and forth, in about a 15-30 degree range. You
gently want to break the rust, using the resistance of the twisting line to
do the work. If it still doesn't work after about 15 twists, try going to
about a 45-60 degree range. If *this* doesn't work, then twisting it more to
break free the fitting to save the line is going to damage the line, and it
is probably so corroded that it shouldn't be saved.

One other trick, if there is a lot of play in the line, is to loosen the
fitting about a 1/4 turn (so that the whole line takes up that twist), clamp
onto the line and tap it toward the fitting, trying to break the bond of the
rust. The only thing that would work on this, however, is the clamp used for
forming a flare on that size tube; vise-grips would *not* work!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:11:09 -0300
Subject: trans lines

Re frozen trans lines, spray w/ WD40 (W30!) or Liquid Wench, use a hot air gun 
(for stripping paint) and heat 'em up, then loosen w/line wrench (aka 
flare-nut 
wrench).  Also works with brake lines.  Good luck!

Doug Kitchener
'70 C/S conv, '72 Vista Crusher, '63 Starfire (Starfire's for sale)
PS, Hi, am new here, just got email.  Am VP of Starfire Chapter, OCA, and 
membership sec'y of Toronado Chapter.  Adios.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:23:26 -0300
Subject: SMOG II PROTEST 16 OCT '96 Sacramento, CA

There will be a protest of the California Legislatures plan to take away 
our collector cars, modified cars, etc so Big business will get pollution 
credits at the California State Capitol Sacramento, CA on Wed 16 OCT '96 
starting at 8 AM. This is so there is a visual impact.

For more info see WEB PAGE  http://www.KSFO560.COM  this will give all the 
INFO.

I plan to take a day of vacation to go to this!  This is it.  Those of 
you in California,  don't blame me if you can't drive your old car or 
modify it.  After these laws are passed they will be hard to undo. So 
let's stop them now! 

Spread the word!!!!!!!!! Now is the time to act!

See you there!

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:39:13 -0300
Subject: Big Cars

The December '96 issue of Collectible Automobile magazine (available now) has 
an 
article on the '61-'64 full-size (88 & 98) Oldsmobiles!  Enjoy!

Doug Kitchener
'63 Starfire, '70 C/S conv, '72 Vista Crusher

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:53:29 -0300
Subject: RE: trans lines 

>'72 Vista Crusher, 

Nice ride Doug!  There are some other members with Vista Bruisers fro '72.
There are also a couple of people with '72 Cutlass Cruiser, with me being one 
and Art Fuller being the other.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:28:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Wagon Search 

Thanks for the lead - since he's 'followed' by what he calls his hungry
mouths (kids) I dont think he could consider an east coast car (just yet).
What do you have left on the V-C your parting?  I need the aluminum trim
piece off the top of the tailgate (mine was straightened & you can tell) &
some interior parts - I get my stuff now from Richard Glista in Ontario,
Canada  - Richard's Rocket Ranch.  he's got lots of V-C's & parts & is
reasonable.  Cheaper than the local guy (incl. shipping/UPS).

Let me know & thanks again -
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm


                   \\\\\\|/////
                    \\ - - //
                    ( 0 0 )
      ----oooO--(_)--Oooo---


          .oooO
             (   )    Oooo.
       ----- \  (----(   )--------
               \_)    )  /
                      (_/   
           Hang in there!!

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:51:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Found '70 W31 

In a message dated 96-09-25 16:24:45 EDT, you write:

> I told the guy I'd think about it. I think no more than $2k is
>  about the right neighborhood for a car that needs this much.
>  What does everyone else think?
>  
>  
>  -Darren Shroeger

Please save the car!! It doesn't deserve much more abuse, give it to a good
home........

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:25:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Types of Oil Dipsticks 

  How many different kinds of Olds oil dipsticks are there?...<snip>
NOPE, the dipstick for a toro is the same for a regular 455 or 350. ...<snip>
          
          Actually, my shop manuals (66, 68, 69, and 71) show a number 
          of different dipstick and tube combinations with different 
          lengths outside of the block.  I suspect that the oil level 
          in the pan should always be the same, however the dipstick 
          _must_ match the tube to get a proper reading.
          
          The easy way around this, of course, is to just drain the 
          oil (you _were_ due to change it, weren't you) and change 
          the filter.  Add your five quarts (six with the Toro pan) 
          and run the engine to fill the filter.  Now check the level 
          on the dipstick.  If you suspect that you have the wrong 
          dipstick for the tube, simply scribe a new mark at the level 
          of the oil.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30 (with the "wrong" dipstick)

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:09:10 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB82.001820A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My 86 olds cutlass supreme coupe weighs in at 4009 according to the =
paperwork. I don't have a salon, but you would think they would weigh =
the same.

- ----------
From: 	Jason Labay[SMTP:z28cfi@gwis.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, September 25, 1996 8:59 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Cc: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: 86 Salon engine?


>I have a 307 in a Cutlass (86) (4009 lbs.) and it is still a drag. I =
always
thought it was because of all the pollution crap and the weight of the =
car
that made it difficult to get out of it's own way. They sure do cruise =
nice
on the highway though. I still can't believe that this car was shipping =
with
a 6=20
>cylinder as the standard back in 86. Z/28 can't be much over 2000lbs if =
that?

I weighed my Z/28 on a truck scale last summer and it was 3,074 lbs. I
assume the scale was pretty accurate. My 80 Cutlass sales brochure says =
my
442 weighs 3,430 lbs. Are you sure your Salon weighs that much, or is my
book way off?=20
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 Cross-Fire 305/TH-350...daily driver
81 Camaro....soon to be TPI 383/3spd...street/strip car
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH-350...show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH-350...restoring now






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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB82.001820A0--

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:19:21 -0300
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine?

> I have a 307 in a Cutlass (86) (4009 lbs.)

(snip)
 
> cylinder as the standard back in 86. Z/28 can't be much over 2000lbs if that?

A Z/28 is more like 3500 - 3700 lbs... not a whole lot lighter than your 
Cutlass.
Geez, even Vettes, the lightest cars GM put V8s into, weigh 3000+.

A 4,000 Cutlass??  Big Red, which is a convertible with a heavier frame than 
the hardtop,
barely touches 3,700...


Tim (Who Believes There Hasn't Been a Real Z/28 Since Ch*vy Stopped Making 
302's) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:04:59 -0300
Subject: water pump

Quick question people,
	waterpump, same for both 455 and 350's? Quick answer please..
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:12:30 -0300
Subject: 86 Salon engine vs. Chevy 305

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>From slcannon@uncc.edu Thu Sep 26 09:10:03 1996
From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:09:59 -0400
To: oldsmobile@ccn.ca.dal.ca
Subject: 86 Salon engine vs. Chevy 305
Cc: slcannon@uncc.edu

As far as longevity goes, I don't know, I have never owned Chevy or a car with 
over 100k miles.

Couldn't be a coincedence could it, nah!

Sorry I couldn't pass that one up.

Steve


- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:16:11 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile contact list form

It seems that we all are pretty much agreed that a contact list is a good 
idea.  I also got lots of good feedback about my form.  I have edited it 
using your ideas.  I'd particularly like to thank Drew (senko@reston.ans.net)
Look at it again and if everybody likes it, then I'll keep it the way 
that it is.  Oh and Bryceman, I sort of "borrowed" a background from 
your page-- I hope that you don't mind ;-)
I at least edited it before using it!  If you do mind send me e-mail, and 
I will figure something else out.  The form is at:
http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:48:55 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 442 

(Re-sent due to network barf here in Chicago...)
>To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>Subject: Re: '77 442
>
>>I believe a  1976-77 Buick Century / Regal shares the trunk lid.
>
>Yes, it does. Hollander #1127.
>
>>( 2 Dr doors look identical too?)
>
>Right again. Hollander #2466A (Century excluding Custom, same as
>Cutlass excluding Supreme, Salon or Brougham); #2466B (Century Custom,
>same as Cutlass Supreme, Salon and Brougham)
>
>Curious note: "Interchange between A & B is limited to door less glass."
>This sounds like a muddled way of saying A & B _are_ the same door; only
>the glass is different. Looking at actual cars will probably resolve that.
>
>Listings above are for '76-'77 only, and list Buick=Olds only; no other
>candidates.
>

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:48:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

(Re-sent due to network barf yesterday here in Chicago...)
>To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace
>
>>>Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
>>>cid.).  It started leaking (gasket area around the bottom part of the pump)
>>
>>That might actually be coolant coming out from your weep hole because your
>>bearing in there is going, but whatever the case, you're replacing it anyway.
>
>I was thinking the same thing; I don't recall ever finding a leaky gasket
>on a good water pump. It's always leaking from the weep hole because the
>pump's gone bad.
>
>>KEEP TRACK OF THE STUDS/BOLTS! There are two main sized bolts holding the
>>water pump on. The four 3/8" headed bolts (two at top, two at bottom) just
>>go into the timing cover plate; they are all the same size. The other bolts
>>are all pretty unique: long, short, long w/stud, short w/stud, etc.,
>>depending upon your accessory brackets. Just make a little diagram, or
>>better yet, get a square of cardboard (box the new water pump came in is
>>good to use), poke a couple holes in it that mimics the pattern of the bolts
>>on the water pump, and stick the bolts into those holes as you remove them.
>
>Yes, yes, yes. If you do _not_ do this, you _will_ go crazy trying to
>remember which bolt went where.
>
>>Go easy on the gasket sealant! The excess can get into your coolant stream
>>and gunk things up (radiator, thermostat, etc.)
>
>Agreed. My favorite for this job is K&W Copper Coat, just as a data point.
>
>>SAVE YOUR FAN STUDS!
>
>Again, yes. First time I made this mistake, I was able to use new bolts
>from the hardware store instead, but it was a pain having to stop and go
>down the street in another car to get them...
>
>>You don't want to take off the old water pump, bring it
>>in as a core-exchange when you pick up the new one, go to put the new pump
>>on, and _then_ remember that the studs to mount the fan are still stuck in
>>your old water pump.
>
>Yet another reason to compare old and new parts right there on the store
>counter if possible.
>
>>This really isn't a hard job at all. If you had a puller and some 3/4"
>>fine-thread rod, I'd suggest pulling the harmonic balancer and changing the
>>timing chain at the same time (you'll already have most of the stuff off the
>>motor at that point anyway). Heck, you could borrow mine if you were nearby.
>
>The Sears Craftsman Steering Wheel/Harmonic Balancer puller will do the
>trick, and its center rod has the correct 3/4" thread for reinstalling
>the balancer afterwards.
>

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:33:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

>>Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
>>cid.).  It started leaking (gasket area around the bottom part of the pump)
>
>That might actually be coolant coming out from your weep hole because your
>bearing in there is going, but whatever the case, you're replacing it anyway.

I was thinking the same thing; I don't recall ever finding a leaky gasket
on a good water pump. It's always leaking from the weep hole because the
pump's gone bad.

>KEEP TRACK OF THE STUDS/BOLTS! There are two main sized bolts holding the
>water pump on. The four 3/8" headed bolts (two at top, two at bottom) just
>go into the timing cover plate; they are all the same size. The other bolts
>are all pretty unique: long, short, long w/stud, short w/stud, etc.,
>depending upon your accessory brackets. Just make a little diagram, or
>better yet, get a square of cardboard (box the new water pump came in is
>good to use), poke a couple holes in it that mimics the pattern of the bolts
>on the water pump, and stick the bolts into those holes as you remove them.

Yes, yes, yes. If you do _not_ do this, you _will_ go crazy trying to
remember which bolt went where.

>Go easy on the gasket sealant! The excess can get into your coolant stream
>and gunk things up (radiator, thermostat, etc.)

Agreed. My favorite for this job is K&W Copper Coat, just as a data point.

>SAVE YOUR FAN STUDS!

Again, yes. First time I made this mistake, I was able to use new bolts
from the hardware store instead, but it was a pain having to stop and go
down the street in another car to get them...

>You don't want to take off the old water pump, bring it
>in as a core-exchange when you pick up the new one, go to put the new pump
>on, and _then_ remember that the studs to mount the fan are still stuck in
>your old water pump.

Yet another reason to compare old and new parts right there on the store
counter if possible.

>This really isn't a hard job at all. If you had a puller and some 3/4"
>fine-thread rod, I'd suggest pulling the harmonic balancer and changing the
>timing chain at the same time (you'll already have most of the stuff off the
>motor at that point anyway). Heck, you could borrow mine if you were nearby.

The Sears Craftsman Steering Wheel/Harmonic Balancer puller will do the
trick, and its center rod has the correct 3/4" thread for reinstalling
the balancer afterwards.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:04:04 -0300
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile contact list form

I tried the e-mail form... seemed to work OK.  

Jim Howes
howesj@nasd.com

>
>It seems that we all are pretty much agreed that a contact list is a good 
>idea.  I also got lots of good feedback about my form.  I have edited it 
>using your ideas.  I'd particularly like to thank Drew (senko@reston.ans.net)
>Look at it again and if everybody likes it, then I'll keep it the way 
>that it is.  Oh and Bryceman, I sort of "borrowed" a background from 
>your page-- I hope that you don't mind ;-)
>I at least edited it before using it!  If you do mind send me e-mail, and 
>I will figure something else out.  The form is at:
>http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:55:59 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 442 

>I believe a  1976-77 Buick Century / Regal shares the trunk lid.

Yes, it does. Hollander #1127.

>( 2 Dr doors look identical too?)

Right again. Hollander #2466A (Century excluding Custom, same as
Cutlass excluding Supreme, Salon or Brougham); #2466B (Century Custom,
same as Cutlass Supreme, Salon and Brougham)

Curious note: "Interchange between A & B is limited to door less glass."
This sounds like a muddled way of saying A & B _are_ the same door; only
the glass is different. Looking at actual cars will probably resolve that.

Listings above are for '76-'77 only, and list Buick=Olds only; no other
candidates.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:33:37 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Types of Oil Dipsticks 

Is the die&sell pan larger than 5qt?  My '78 manual lists the diesel oil 
capacity at 7qts, but that would include 1 in the filter, 1 in the oil 
cooler.  ???

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- -------------
<snip>
Olds pans are 4 or 5 qt. and one in filter.

W Machines

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:31:23 -0300
Subject: Shipping weights (Was: 86 Salon engine?) 

          
A Z/28 is more like 3500 - 3700 lbs... not a whole lot lighter than your 
Cutlass.
Geez, even Vettes, the lightest cars GM put V8s into, weigh 3000+.
          
A 4,000 Cutlass??  Big Red, which is a convertible with a heavier frame than 
the
hardtop,
barely touches 3,700...
          

          Be careful not to confuse shipping weights with actual curb 
          weights.  The shipping weight on my 70 W-30 is something 
          like 3400 lbs; actual weight is probably a lot closer to 
          3700+ lbs.  4000 lbs with late model 5 mph bumpers, side 
          impact beams, extra sound deadening, power everything, a/c, 
          T-tops, etc, etc, is not unreasonable.  I was floored when I 
          weighted by crewcab dually 4x4 - shipping weight is listed 
          as 4900 lbs.  Actual weight (empty truck, usual detritus 
          behind the seat, one tank full, driver only) was a whopping 
          6600 lbs!  Either the shipping weight is optimistic or I 
          need to go on a dramatic diet!
          
          BTW, the Corvette is not that light.  Keep in mind that the 
          car is designed as though the fiberglass body takes no 
          structual loads whatsoever, so there is a lot of steel in 
          the frame and in body reinforcements embedded in the 'glass.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:33:10 -0300
Subject: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442) 

At 09:55 AM 9/25/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I believe a  1976-77 Buick Century / Regal shares the trunk lid.
>
>Yes, it does. Hollander #1127.
>
>>( 2 Dr doors look identical too?)

Where can I get a Hollander book? I've seen them at the yards, but haven't
noticed them at swap meets. Do you get a book for your model year or do you
try to get a couple of years around your model year? 

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:36:48 -0300
Subject: Re: water pump 

Quick question people,
 waterpump, same for both 455 and 350's? Quick answer please..
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto
          
          The pump bolt patterns to the block and general geometry is 
          the same.  The primary difference in between a/c and 
          non-a/c.  I seem to recall that there is a height difference 
          (dimension from the pump mounting surface to the fan 
          mounting flange), not to mention the difference in impeller. 
          Quick enough?
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:47:09 -0300
Subject: 86 Salon W?

Hi, forgive the stupid question but

During the verbal intercourse(like that?) there are always references to
W30 or WXX is that referring to the engine?  Like the LT1 or the L88 in
the Vettes?

Thanks
Jim Howes
howesj@nasd.com
Easy Rider wonderin and wavin 

>          
>A Z/28 is more like 3500 - 3700 lbs... not a whole lot lighter than your 
>Cutlass.
>Geez, even Vettes, the lightest cars GM put V8s into, weigh 3000+.
>          
>A 4,000 Cutlass??  Big Red, which is a convertible with a heavier frame than
>the
>hardtop,
>barely touches 3,700...
>          
>
>          Be careful not to confuse shipping weights with actual curb 
>          weights.  The shipping weight on my 70 W-30 is something 
>          like 3400 lbs; actual weight is probably a lot closer to 
>          3700+ lbs.  4000 lbs with late model 5 mph bumpers, side 
>          impact beams, extra sound deadening, power everything, a/c, 
>          T-tops, etc, etc, is not unreasonable.  I was floored when I 
>          weighted by crewcab dually 4x4 - shipping weight is listed 
>          as 4900 lbs.  Actual weight (empty truck, usual detritus 
>          behind the seat, one tank full, driver only) was a whopping 
>          6600 lbs!  Either the shipping weight is optimistic or I 
>          need to go on a dramatic diet!
>          
>          BTW, the Corvette is not that light.  Keep in mind that the 
>          car is designed as though the fiberglass body takes no 
>          structual loads whatsoever, so there is a lot of steel in 
>          the frame and in body reinforcements embedded in the 'glass.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>          
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:44:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

>If your '83 88 is anything like my '78 Electra (which is pretty likely), the
>dash lights would be accessible after you remove the _top_ of the dash. The
>dash pad should be secured by a line of screws across the defroster vents,
>another line under the front-top of the dashboard, and one on each end.
>
>Then again, maybe not.

Not.  :-)  It mostly comes out the front on the newer cars (say, '77 up).

I have general instructions on how to do this based on my work on a
'78 88, but it's kind of longwinded even by my standards. Wasn't going
to post it unless I get several requests; will be happy to email it to
anyone. (Haven't totally finished it yet; have been working on it off
and on since yesterday.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #312
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