To:	Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US
cc:	 
From:	gbbea000 @ mail.cycor.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/03/96 07:40:19 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #348


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 31 October 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 348


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:28:51 -0400
Subject: New TV Muscle Car Show

I don't know if anyone saw the first three episodes of "My Classic Car",
but the web page is pretty nice. It says they will start their new
season in Jan. 1997. I sent them Email on the Olds list and www.442.com.

http://www.myclassiccar.com/

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:40:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Darren's new ride

Paul wrote:
> Been there.  The brakes in my '67 Ninety Eight are the same way.  That
car > comes to a screeching halt if you just breathe on the brake pedal.
I like to > watch the mechanics that work on it stop for the first time.
Their eyes get > REAL big.

I sure wish my 68 442 would stop like that!  I just replace the MC and
still doesn't stop on a dime (yes I do have a power booster).

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 04:34:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Carb faq's and id

There is a web page from oemcarbs that lists Quadrajet#,  year, make,
model, application, etc.  I think the web page is www.oemcarbs.com
don't quote me on this.  I saw an ad in hemmings that listed their web
page.

Chris Smetana
chris_r._smetana@dadc.com
69 Cutlass W-31
2 66 GTO's - 1 is a parts car
71 Skylark custom convertible
89 Mustang 5.0 LX Hatchback
77 Buick LeSabre - parents bought new, will be sold soon - original
drivetrain,350 olds



 Turbo 200

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:45:20 -0400
Subject: Olds FAQ Download

Ok Gang,

The new Olds FAQ is available for download on the web at
http://www.en.com/users/thall


Great Job Dave!


J. Todd Hall
Cleveland, OH
1972 4-4-2




------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:54:36 -0400
Subject: FAQ 2.0

Thanks to all the oinkers!!  I've got about 5 people looking at it now,
sorry about everyone else.

Hopefully I'll have a couple of ftp and web sites later today (Wed).

Later,
David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:57:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ Download

Thanks Dave!!

> The new Olds FAQ is available for download on the web at
> http://www.en.com/users/thall

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:00:19 -0400
Subject: Increasing a cars value

>>>Strictly speaking, a car is worth more in original condition....  If
you make these mods. please use good sense not to mis-represent the
vehicle.<<<

As with so many things, that is not always the case.

If you took a six cylinder base model and dropped in a built 455, TH400
or Muncie, 12 bolt rear, paint, interior, etc. I believe it would be
worth a lot more than the "original".  I have been told by more than one
professional appraiser that my rare '67 W-30, which is very modified, is
worth about the same as a stock version.  FWIW I have, so far, done
nothing that can't be easily reversed.  I did not build the car for
"investment" purposes but to "enjoy the ride". (You gotta admit those
new N*ssan TV commercials are great.
 Where the h*ll are the GM/Olds versions?)

In the final analysis a car is worth what someone else is willing to
_pay_ for it, not what some book, appraiser or other expert says.
Moreover, the only cars where originality will clearly help value are
rare cars with a museum quality restoration. A '69 4 door Cutlass with 6
cylinder, stick shift and no air will never be worth what it would cost
to restore it. In fact, today, almosr _no_ car will be worth what it
would cost to restore to a "1" condition.  Unless you have one of the
rare models (a 442 does not necessarily qualify, there were lots of them
after all) IMO don't worry about originality, enjoy the ride (there it
is again!).

>>>>1966.  The tripower setup included
          the manifold, carb, air cleaners, and all linkages and
          plumbing.  The W-30 kit included the big chrome air cleaner,
          hoses, bumper scoops, and the 328 degree cam and lifters.
<<<<<

The 66-67 W-30 cams were 308 degrees.  The 328 degree cam started in
'68.
 The 308 cam was also used in the W-31 small blocks and some 455 H/O's


Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:00:24 -0400
Subject: Carb Numbers

>>>>I don't know of any comprehensive list of carburetor casting
numbers.
 <<<<

I don't believe there are any casting numbers. Early Q-jets used a round
metal disc on the front drivers side of the the fuel bowl.  Later models
had it stamped on the drivers side rear flat portion where one of the
long screws holding the air horn to the throttle body passes through.

Sure there is a comprehensive list of numbers, from ACDelco.  Several on
this list have ordered the ACDelco books which list just about every
Rochester carb built since the 50's.  I don't have immediate access this
week (on the road again).  Can someone look this up?

For the new folks, they are _large_ books (3), cheap and a goldmine of
information.  I assume the FAQ gives ordering info.  Or if anyone wants
to email me direct I'll give you the info.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:14:41 -0400
Subject: Shhhh!


          David,

          Absolutely outstanding job on FAQ 2.0.  This is certainly a
          tremendous piece of work.  Thanks for you effort.

          (Glances around nervously)

          There's just one einsy weinsy little omission...it seems in
          the list of option codes, you've forgotten the W-34.  Now I
          know that in a document of this size, some things fall
          through the cracks.  I just think you should quickly put
          this back in before the Toronado mafia gets wind of this.
          "Hell hath no fury like a Toro owner scorned", or something
          like that.  Heh, heh...

          You know, they don't call them "meat cleaver" fenders for
          nothing...right Mike?...Mike?!...Sparky?...anybody?!?

          (Sound of tempered steel scraping across sharpening stone)

          EEEIIIIIIEEEEE!!!!


          Joe (just a little Halloween humor) Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com  (no, really, it's just a joke....)

          EEIIIIIEEEEE.....

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:25:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Increasing a cars value

Bob Handren wrote:
> "enjoy the ride". (You gotta admit those new N*ssan TV commercials are
great. >  Where the h*ll are the GM/Olds versions?)

I remember some time back (year or so) that Nissan did a comercial
showing 70's cars trying to out dodge a Nissan.  It was more like a
demolition derby! Those poor 70's cars being mistreated like that!!!  I
wouldn't have a Nissan if someone gave it to me.  End of story.  I can
recall a race I was in with my 77 Old Cutlass Supreme Brougham 4 door
(350 Rochester 4 barrel) with a 300 ZX.  It was a close race but I won
and boy was he pisssssed!  He was beaten by a car that looked like a
real piece of s**t!!  I could tell he was pissed because he revved his
engine while passing my car as I was making my turn into my street.
Some people! :-)  If he new that the car was mechanically failing (bad
PS, bad tranny, bad lifter [loss compression]) I think he would have
really sunk into his seat!! :-)  This car is no longer with us (My city
made me get rid of it) (Head down in a moment of silence).  This car was
the best $300.00 investment (plus maintenance of course) I ever made.
It may have been b**t ugly (rust holes, funky green color), but it sure
was a good running car.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:36:00 -0400
Subject: FW: Olds Manual Copy

Glenn,

I tried sending this to you directly, but your mail service bounced it
back, so I'm posting it on the list:

I got it!  And I must say....very nice!  My fathers '69 Cutlass Supreme
is gloss black as well.   On the picture you mention "no paint
stripes."  If you are referring to the ones that go from top to bottom
on the front fenders, right across the 4-4-2 emblems, I think they only
did that on the '68 4-4-2s.  I'd love to see a full shot of the car if
you have any photos.
 Engine compartment looks great.  Keep up the good work!

Jeff
 ----------
From: Glenn Connors
To: jzeilman
Subject: Olds Manual Copy
Date: Thursday, October 24, 1996 6:07PM

Jeff,

      Just received the copies you sent me from your manual.  That's
just what I was looking for.  BTW, an interesting note, mine being a
non-air car has the alternator mounted on the right side of the motor
verses a car with air has it mounted above the power steering pump on
the left side.
      I just mailed this morning a couple copies I made for you of some
pictures I took of the engine compartment of my car.  Unfortunately the
prints didn't come out as clear as I would have liked but they'll give
you an idea of what I'm working on.

Thanks again, very much appreciated.
Glenn

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:12:49 -0400
Subject: Shhhh!

          David,

          Absolutely outstanding job on FAQ 2.0.  This is certainly a
          tremendous piece of work.  Thanks for you effort.

          (Glances around nervously)

          There's just one einsy weinsy little omission...it seems in
          the list of option codes, you've forgotten the W-34.  Now I
          know that in a document of this size, some things fall
          through the cracks.  I just think you should quickly put
          this back in before the Toronado mafia gets wind of this.
          "Hell hath no fury like a Toro owner scorned", or something
          like that.  Heh, heh...

          You know, they don't call them "meat cleaver" fenders for
          nothing...right Mike?...Mike?!...Sparky?...anybody?!?

          (Sound of tempered steel scraping across sharpening stone)

          EEEIIIIIIEEEEE!!!!


          Joe (just a little Halloween humor) Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com  (no, really, it's just a joke....)

          EEIIIIIEEEEE.....

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:12:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Increasing a cars value

>In the final analysis a car is worth what someone else is willing to
_pay_ >for it, not what some book, appraiser or other expert says.
Moreover, the >only cars where originality will clearly help value are
rare cars with a >museum quality restoration. A '69 4 door Cutlass with
6 cylinder, stick shift >and no air will never be worth what it would
cost to restore it. In fact, >today, almosr _no_ car will be worth what
it would cost to restore to a "1" >condition.  Unless you have one of
the rare models (a 442 does not >necessarily qualify, there were lots of
them after all) IMO don't worry about >originality, enjoy the ride
(there it is again!).

This is where I have mixed feelings with my 80 442. I would like to
modify it with chrome, some bolt on performance upgrades, etc, etc. But
I can not stand the thought of messing with a car so rare. 442's are
common, but mine is one of the rarest 442's ever made (886 produced) - -
- - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:05:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Shhhh!

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
>
>
>           I just think you should quickly put this back in before the
>           Toronado mafia gets wind of this.

Too late.

>           You know, they don't call them "meat cleaver" fenders for
>           nothing...right Mike?...Mike?!...Sparky?...anybody?!?

I'll have to get back to you on this, Joe.
Busy honing the front edges...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:49:00 -0400
Subject: Exhaust Manifold or Intake Manifold?

>From: "Brendan P. Foley" <bfoley@ezl.com>
>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 22:07:14 -0400
>Subject: Exhaust Manifold or Intake Manifold?

>I own a 71 Cutlass Conv. with a 350 Rocket. The car has 170K and the
>engine has 40K, I want to improve engine performance. Should I start
>with new exhaust headers or a new intake manifold? I believe my right
>exhaust manifold is leaking a little.

>Brendan P. Foley
>St.Louis, MO.           71 Cutlass

Brendan,
Before you modify your car, carefully consider what its primary uses
are.
 If it is your daily driver, has to go through rush hour traffic jams,
drive in the winter months, etc., then try to avoid too many hi-po
mods.  It's hard to work the normal bugs out of some modifications when
you have to be at work/school in eight hours and your Olds is your only
ride.

If your car is your leisure time driver, then I suggest you try an
Edelbrock intake first, especially if you currently run a 2bbl.  Stick
with a Qjet, since they are cheaper and, IMHO work just as well as a
Holley on a low-revving engine like the Olds.

Investigate and repair the leak on your RH exh mani.  It is probably the
 gasket between the mani and the head.  If you buy Fel pro gaskets, you
 should only have to remove the center manifold bolt, and loosen the
rest.
 The slotted bolt holes in the gasket should allow it to drop right in.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: John and Elizabeth Gene <gene@cybernex.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:50:22 -0400
Subject: Non computer control of 4th gear in a 200-4R

Does anyone know if it is possible to use 4th gear in a 200-4R after the
computer has been disconnected. Is it as simple as decreasing the
voltage? If so  what is the voltage?  What is the purposes of those four
wires entering the drivers side of the case. I would like to install a
switch to en gauge 4th gear when crusing down the highway and disable it
when driving around town. +==========================+ | John and
Elizabeth Gene  | | mailto:gene@cybernex.net |
+==========================+

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:23:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Increasing a cars value

They are pretty good, I'll have to admit!  Remember the Taurus or Accord
 spoof commercials a few years back spoofing either or?  Olds could
spoof Nissan.

I think Olds has enough "garage history" to do the garage.  Let's see,
49, 50 88 road racers, 66 Toro w/Daytona/Sebring Aurora.  The WJ
dragster.  How about Barbie w/300ZX?  Have a 70 442 lay rubber while
passing the zx, stop at a friends house, both jump into an Aurora, blow
past the zx again, and pick up BOTH babes!  Then there's the lightning
bug commercial . . .

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ---------------
(You gotta admit those new N*ssan TV commercials are great.
 Where the h*ll are the GM/Olds versions?)

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:34:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Shhhh!, requests, and download sites

For a minute there I thought I had deleted all the w-34 info.  As I
glanced around nervously for glittering metal fenders, I checked the
FAQ source, found the w-34 info, then reread your message.  Ahh, the
option codes section!

What is in the FAQ is how I received it.  If anyone has this option code
 info, or any other, send it to me!  And just as a reminder, if you
have info that is missing from the FAQ or corrections, formatting,
punctuation or grammer, please sent it!

Clayton Pierce, check the Jetfire section about 215 info.  Could you
sent me additional material you have, merged with what is already
there?  There were a couple of other suggestions and offers for FAQ
info, could the posters please send to me?  Charley was asking about
Carb info, and there were one or two other request/offers.

I also initially forgot to add the Toro Mail List, and this lists new
address (see Toro List at www.442.com).  Those were added/corrected.

The two download sites at this time, offering the pkzipped and
uncompressed version of the FAQ are:

http://www.en.com/users/thall/
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.


David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:16:44 -0400
Subject: OLDSFAQ2

If anyone downloaded the zipped FAQ from my web site this morning, I had
the wrong file posted, you got the old one in html. The correct file is
there now.

Sorry!
Was multitasking this morning (screwing up several things at once)


Todd Hall
http://www.en.com/users/thall

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:28:00 -0400
Subject: Delmont Love

Dang!

I think I've fallen in love.

It happened when I was driving back from a friend's last night. Hopped
in my new 68 Delmont 88, fired her up with ease. Runs great right from
startup, even with that green Cold light glowing (Cool, got the rarish
Cold light!). Mind you, I haven't yet done a thing as far as tuneup
except scrape the glazing off the cap and rotor. Checked the oil, too:
Full, and so clean I could hardly see it on the dipstick!

So I was rallying it a bit on the way home; some briskish acceleration
and snappy stops. She's quite spritely for a little 350 2V in a
bigcar... can't wait to tune her up and see how she runs!

Anyway, tossing the car around in the corners (!) proved that she's a
firm, supple handler, not some worn-out big boat that sloshes all over
the place.

When I pulled into my parking lot, I backed her neatly into a
normal-sized parking space and shut her down. I took a minute and looked
around me at the pristine 1968 vintage interior: The rip-free black
Madera Grain vinyl bench, the dash-mounted ignition, the big ol'
steering wheel. Suddenly I came to the realization that I simply *had*
to keep her. Never had a car this nice, this solid, this *unspoiled*...
ever.

This is the stuff ad copy is made of, man!

I think I'm even going to put her in storage for winter: My partsrunner
GP, loose and clapped-out by comparison, will serve winter duties just
fine. At least the GP has a 350 Olds under the hood to remind me of
Delmont...

So now I have to think of a suitable feminine name... Dellie?
Hmmm... Maybe I'd better take suggestions. Name ideas?

- -Darren Shroeger

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 06:27:16 -0400
Subject: Olds FAQ

     Something is wrong with the Olds FAQ 2.0 file.  I downloaded the
     zipped version from the website mentioned, and it only unzips to
130k
     and the file unzipped is dated from July.  Did the old version get
put
     on there by mistake?

     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 06:37:27 -0400
Subject: Olds FAQ--oops

     Nevermind, something is wrong with me!  I must have saved it in a
     different directory the first time and I was looking at an old copy
by
     the same filename.  Worked this time.

     Sorry to waste the bandwitdh guys!

     Tom L.

______________________________ Forward Header
__________________________________ Subject: Olds FAQ Author:  Tom Lentz
at SPOKANE Date:    10/30/96 9:25 AM


     Something is wrong with the Olds FAQ 2.0 file.  I downloaded the
     zipped version from the website mentioned, and it only unzips to
130k
     and the file unzipped is dated from July.  Did the old version get
put
     on there by mistake?

     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:42:06 -0400
Subject: RE: Delmont Love

*Della*

Wasn't her name Della Street on Perry Mason about the time period when
your car was built? Something about her was pretty foxy if I remember
correctly...

>Mitch
>

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:48:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Delmont Love

> I think I've fallen in love.

Darren, yer a lucky man, fer sure! :)  Sounds like a sweet, sweet
ride...

> So now I have to think of a suitable feminine name... Dellie?
> Hmmm... Maybe I'd better take suggestions. Name ideas?

How 'bout Delilah?  As in Samson and? :)



Tim (Hummin' That ol' Golden Earring Tune after Reading the Topic)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:17:00 -0400
Subject: Hagerty Insurance

Whoa,

Just got off the phone with Hagerty Insurance as I want to insure my two
68's for winter storage. They are amazing- they'll insure for full
collector value on appropriate vehicles.

I told them everything about the cars: the 442 is a resto project
partway completed, has about $3000 in engine receipts, buckets just
reupholstered by Barrett's Auto Trim in Traverse City, Mich (Sweeeet-
look like new!).

Told them what I told you bout the Delmont. So they are insuring the 442
for $6000 replacement value, the Delmont for $5000 replacement value.
They didn't have problems with these values: For instance, they showed a
Delmont in #1 condition at $6700, #2 condition at $4700. I said it may
not be quite a 2, they said no problem insuring at $5000.

To insure *both* cars for storage comp in the winter and "pleasure
driving" full coverage in the summer was only $100!!!! Unbelievable but
true! I'd recommend them to anyone for classic cars as they seem to
really care about preserving classics such as our Oldsmobiles.

The only stipulation is that your car must be either 25 years old or a
"modern-day classic" i.e. new Ferraris and such.

CALL THEM!

616.947.6868
Ask for Jennifer Wylie, tell her I sent you...

- -Darren Shroeger
 68 442 4 spd; 68 Delmont

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 07:19:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Non computer control of 4th gear in a 200-4R

     Only two of those 4 wires are used.  The two are used to engage the

     torque converter lockup.  I'm not sure of the exact wiring, but it
     involves ground on one and 12v on another.  4th gear should work
     without the computer, but driving around extensively without the
TCC
     locked up can cause damage from overheating.  If it were me, I'd
     either buy one of the adapters from Summit made for this purpose,
or
     rig up some sort of pushbutton and relay where the pushbutton
engaged
     the TCC lockup, and the brake pedal disengaged it.

     Hmm... rigging this up might involve some minor electronics--I'm
quite
     rusty on this, but some sort of flip/flop driving a transistor to
     power the relay.  Would be neat to hook up a light or LED in there
to
     indicate when it's locked up.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Non computer control of 4th
gear in a 200-4R Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:
10/30/96 10:37 AM


Does anyone know if it is possible to use 4th gear in a 200-4R after the
 computer has been disconnected. Is it as simple as decreasing the
voltage? If so  what is the voltage?  What is the purposes of those
four wires entering the drivers side of the case. I would like to
install a  switch to en gauge 4th gear when crusing down the highway
and disable it when driving around town. +==========================+ |
John and Elizabeth Gene  | | mailto:gene@cybernex.net |
+==========================+



------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:43:20 -0400
Subject: Re: VCR heads

At 16:17 10/29/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>Hey Brad,
>
>	Cable's working fine now all sixty something channels, but the VCR
heads probably do need cleaning because right after pressing "play"
everything gets kinda smoky and it automatically goes to "fast forward".
If I clean the "heads" it'll probably just "fast forward" even faster!
I'm beginning to really like these new VCR's. > >Steve > Does that "New
VCR" have an automatic or standard?? (He asks,stirring up an old
thread....) ;) Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:59:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Non computer control of 4th gear in a 200-4R

>     Hmm... rigging this up might involve some minor electronics--I'm
quite >     rusty on this, but some sort of flip/flop driving a
transistor to >     power the relay.  Would be neat to hook up a light
or LED in there to >     indicate when it's locked up.

Just get a couple of 7400 NAND gates from Radio Shack.

But seriously, I have the article that everyone refers to for this swap.
It mentions a product that does this locking and unlocking
automatically.  Get it, automatic.  (okay bad humor mode off)

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:11:24 -0400
Subject: slipping transmission

Hello;
I own a 1970 oldsmobile 98 LS with only 187,000 miles on its
transmission.  I think it is a THD400.  It slips at idle. Once I mash on
 the gas it grabs, and then is fine.  I intend to pull the transmission
 for repairs.  what parts should I replace?


Dennis Sytsma
dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:16:53 -0400
Subject: parts car/motor q's

I'd like to check some of the numbers on the motor in that parts car
Calais.

The heads say "8"
The intake manifold says "16"
Found the # "395558" up above the water pump.
The block has stamped on it right up in front of the headers on the
drivers side, "3GM271489". What is this? Could you get headers on
these motors, or is that aftermarket stuff?


Can you help me identify just exactly what I have here.  I think that it
 is just a regular old early 70's smoggie 4bbl. 350.  This is going by
the intake and heads, I don't know about the block itself.  What could
this possibly come out of?  The motor in my car has the same heads and
intake, but it's got a TH400 instead of a TH350.  Mine came out of a
'74 Delta 88.

Thanks for any help!
Send me a copy of that FAQ (either zipped or otherwise),
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles) {daily driver}
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles) {want to restore}
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles) {tankallac}

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:27:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Non computer control of 4th gear in a 200-4R

Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>  rig up some sort of pushbutton and relay where the pushbutton engaged
>  the TCC lockup, and the brake pedal disengaged it.
>
>  Hmm... rigging this up might involve some minor electronics--I'm
quite >  rusty on this, but some sort of flip/flop driving a transistor
to >  power the relay.  Would be neat to hook up a light or LED in there
to >  indicate when it's locked up.

An even easier solution.  You only need a 12V relay with two sets of
contacts and two switches like so:


                   12V
                    |
                    o
DISENGAGE SWITCH (--| DISENGAGE SWITCH (NORMALLY CLOSED)
                    o
                    |
                    |---------------------------------------
                    |                                      |
                    o                                      |
 ENGAGE SWITCH (--|    (NORMALLY OPEN)                     |
                    o                                      |
                    |                                      |
                    |------------------                    |
                    |                 |                    |
                    |                 |                    |
          ----------------)           |                    |
          |               )   =--------                    |
          |         RELAY )   =-----------------------------
          |               ) CONTACTS
     LED  |          COIL )   =----------------------->       TO
     OR  (-)              )   =----------------------->   TRANMISSION
    LAMP  |         ------)
          |         |
          |         |
       GROUND     GROUND

When the "engage" switch (normally open) is closed, it supplies 12V to
the relay, energizing it, and closing its contacts.  The first set of
contacts short around the "energize" switch and keep the relay powered
when you let go of the button (holding contacts).  The disengage switch,
 when pressed, removes power from the whole mess and de-energizes the
relay.  The LED or lamp will light whenever the relay has power.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:45:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Shhhh!

> JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:

> >          There's just one einsy weinsy little omission...it seems in

 > >         the list of option codes, you've forgotten the W-34.

> >           I just think you should quickly put this back in before
the > >           Toronado mafia gets wind of this. > > Too late. > >
>           You know, they don't call them "meat cleaver" fenders for >
>           nothing...right Mike?...Mike?!...Sparky?...anybody?!? > >
I'll have to get back to you on this, Joe. > Busy honing the front
edges... > > The 66 Toro and Mike

Hey all ... the option codes info came from me (preparing for sacrifice)
... I checked the source (GM parts manual) and it's not listed ... so
you could direct the cleavers to MR GM.  However, my omission suggests
that I didn't know of or didn't think of the W34 option while doing the
typing, so clearly I need an education.  Well, what else do you expect
from one so Toroless ...

I think Dave'll fix it...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 20:35:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Shhhh!

Graham Stewart wrote:
>
> ... I checked the source (GM parts manual) and it's not listed
> ... so you could direct the cleavers to MR GM.

Reprogramming Toro-scud target coordinates...

> Well, what else do you expect from one so Toroless ...

There's a cure!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:19:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Carb faq's and id

I just checked the address for oem carbs, here it is
www.blake.com/oemcarbs/
It lists Olds form 68 to 74

Chris Smetana
chris_r._smetana @dadc.com
69 Cutlass W-31
2 66 GTO's - 1 is a parts car
71 Skylark custom convertible - for sale
89 Mustang 5.0 LX Hatchback

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:47:57 -0400
Subject: 200-4R codes and the FAQ

     Whew, you mean I wasn't going insane?  For the life of me I
couldn't
     figure out why my first download got me the old version, then the
     second one not an hour later got me the correct one.  I feel much
     better now  ;-)

     I noticed the following codes in the FAQ for the 200-4R.  My '84
H/O
     has a code OZ tranny (verified last weekend, yellow tag w/ black
     printing).  I've seen TSB's on this car for the tranny that mention

     something to the effect that "This TSB doesn't apply to code OZ
tranny
     found on the Hurst/Olds".  Can anyone else verify the code OZ
tranny?
     Every other number matches on my car, the rear end, engine, VIN,
     option codes on the trunk lid, etc.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

     -- TH-200R --
     Here are the codes:
     Olds 442/Hurst:   KZF
     Monte SS:         CZF
     GN/T-Type:        BRF

     These codes can be found on the passenger side of the trans
     near the output shaft.  Sometimes they are hard to read due
     to the cat being in the way.

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:12:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor advice wanted

Hello;

I had a dist problem with my 1970 olds 98 ls with a 455 cid.  I sent the
 dist out to a speed shop in Hollywood Fl.  They reworked the unit for
$70.00.  They did a great job, but replacment with a more modern unit
from a local speed shop would not have cost much more, I think......

I can highly recommend the guy who reworked my dist.  I would have to
find the adress.  I think it was Ross Barfield automotive in Hollywood
Fl.  He has the test bench to test and repair dist's, he is into racing.

e mail me if you want the phone number and adress.


Dennis Sytsma
dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us


On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Art E. Heckman wrote:

>
>
> >
> >I think my distributor advance may be broken/off/wrong.  The engine
> >runs just fine if I accellerate lightly, but when I step on it the
> >engine bogs down and then lugs slowly up to speed.  I think this is
> >because the distributor doesn't advance the timing enough (at all?).
> >Am I right about this?  What else might cause it?
> >
> >If I am right, and I need to fix/replace my distributor, how should
> >I go about doing it?  Ideally I'd like to have a replacement in hand
> >ready to go and just swap the two out.  I assume I can probably find
> >a replacement unit in a junk yard.  What should I look for in the
> >junk yard unit?  Once I have the unit what do I need to do to it to
> >prepare it properly?  I've heard that there are "rebuild kits" on
> >the market.  Will this guide me through the steps or is this a
> >bad idea?  If it is a bad idea, what would be a good idea? :)
> >I'm fairly good with mechanical things, and I follow instructions
> >well, but this is new territory for me.  I've never done anything
> >more to a distributor than replace a cap and rotor (haven't even had
> >to change/adjust the points yet).
> >
> >What about moving to some kind of electronic unit?  I'm more
interested > >in reliability (or perhaps repairability) than
performance.  My only > >experience with electronic distributors came
with a MGB and they were > >for $#!+ there -- the electronic control
module was forever burning > >itself out.  Then again that car was
rather messed up electronicly > >anyway, they'd only just recently come
around to the idea of negative > >earth. > > > >- Travis and the 69
olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny" > >-- > >Travis McWaters
Transmission Products Division > >tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
DSC Communications Corporation > > > > > > > > >              For most
point type distributors, converting to a electronic > breakerless
distributor is the only way to go. I have had very good luck > using
the IGNITOR breakerless electronic ignition system. You use you > point
type distributer and in about 30 minutes of work you can convert >
over. The advantages are that you still will look stock, and have >
trouble-free performance also. Also, you won't have to fool around with >
changing points ever again. I've installed two of these units on my own >
cars and would NEVER go back to points. You can get this unit from J.C. >
WHITNEY for about $70. There are other sources also. NORTHERN Auto Parts
 > Warehouse,Inc. has them for about $58. There is no need to buy
expensive > distributers when you use this easy conversion kit. >
Art Heckman >

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:23:00 -0400
Subject: Re: slipping transmission

>I own a 1970 oldsmobile 98 LS with only 187,000 miles on its
>transmission.  It slips at idle. Once I mash on
>the gas it grabs, and then is fine.  I intend to pull the transmission
>for repairs.  what parts should I replace?

Well, before you go yanking the thing out, check a couple things, like
transmission fluid level, condition of fluid (should be red, not brown;
if it's brown, it's burnt; replace it), etc.  It may just be low in
fluid.  Do you know if the fluid/filter has ever been changed?  If not,
that would be a good thing to do.  "Only 187,000" miles is a lot.  There
are things that could be and most probably are worn out, but try the
simple things first. Low fluid level can cause slipping; check that
first! - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 20:07:49 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Re: 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 Convertible]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------307015F829AC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I got this letter from a fella who saw my '61 on the web.  It's a
1960 Super 88 Convertible.  I can't afford to buy it, but it sounds
like he may not want much money for it.  Rescue this ragtop!!!  He
also mentions a '65 Cutlass Convertible with a leaky fuel tank.
Just one favor...don't come back and tell me you picked them both
up for $200!!!
Happy Oldsmobiling!
Jeff King (N5PNU) (1961 Super 88)
- --
=====================================================================
Jeffrey W. King (N5PNU)     Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
=====================================================================

- --------------307015F829AC
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

From: TDunn30561@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:47:15 -0500
Message-ID: <961030184714_1482122769@emout04.mail.aol.com>
To: jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
cc: TDunn30561@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 Convertible

In a message dated 96-10-30 17:16:22 EST, you write:

<<
 --  >>
The car is in Connecticut it is my aunt's car. price negotiable. My
address is Tim Dunn 27 Henry Austin Drive Wilton, Ct. 06897. If you type
in "Oldsmobile Super 88" in quotes that's how I found your car you will
see a notation on a 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 Coupe click on that with
the mouse, it will bring up a photo of that car in New Jersey, the color
and body style is the same as my aunt's only hers is a convertible.
Under AOL search excite type "Oldsmobile Super 88" and you will find the
car that looks like my aunt's same year, same color only it's restored
and running and a hardtop coupe and her's is a convertible in need of
restoration. The body on my aunt's car appears to be solid there is some
break through rust in the front fender it has the original top and
interior and engine. The car would have to be towed out on a flatbed the
garage is leaning over you have to get in on the passenger side. She has
the keys and title. Unless there is a way of putting four wheels with
inflated tires on it and pushing it out then towing it. But its unlikely
the garage is leaning so its hard to get to the driver side of the car
from front to back and it leaning in hard to get to the back of the car.
We cleaned out the whole garage and drove out the running 1965
Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible with original paint, interior, and top,
it needs a gas tank it has a leak. It runs strong the V8 was burbling. I
hope someone rescues the 1960 before the garage comes down.

- --------------307015F829AC--

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 20:20:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Project: Olds Craft (details)

At 03:17 PM 10/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     Sorry about the delay guys, but here's the final info for the Car
>     Craft letter writing campaign.  I'll post this message again 2
weeks >     or so before the deadline. > >     The Dream (for
those who came in late or were busy showing their >     tallights to a
Mustang):  It seems to be a pretty much universal >     feeling here
that Car Craft (and the other magazines too, but we have >     to start
somewhere) pretty much ignores Oldsmobiles (and Buicks and >
Pontiacs too) while Chevy-Camaro-Mustanging us to death every issue. >
In an attempt to convey our feelings and hopefully slap some sense >
into them, it was decided that a letter-writing campaign was a good >
idea. > >     The plan:  From this, project Olds Craft was born.
On or about >     December 1st, everyone here, and anyone else you know
should send a >     letter, preferably with a picture of your car, to
Car Craft magazine. >     The idea is to get many pro-Olds letters in
to them in a short amount >     of time.  In the letter, state whatever
you want, but at least try to >     be civil or it won't get printed
and they may not even read it all. >     It was decided that it might
be a good idea to mention this list, or >     possibly Bryceman's web
page.  Perhaps say something like "My car was >     restored/fixed/kept
running with help from the Internet Olds Mailing >     list and the
free technical archives at http://www.442.com". >
  Hi!
  Thiat is why I only subscribe to "Muscle Car Review" I feel that this
mag. is the most fair to ALL musclecar enthusiasts and they have some
great ttips and articles about restorations and "restifications". I have
had a suscription since they were called "Car Exchange" and they have
been great with Olds fanatics thru the years.. Give them a try!! And
NO..I do NOT work in the MCR marketing Dept!!
 ;)   Blair Rendell
      71 442 W30 Convertible 4sp.

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:03:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Hagerty Insurance

Darren Shroeger wrote:
>To insure *both* cars for storage comp in the winter and "pleasure
driving" >full coverage in the summer was only $100!!!! Unbelievable but
true! I'd >recommend them to anyone for classic cars as they seem to
really care about >preserving classics such as our Oldsmobiles.

GREAT info, my wife works for an insurance company and I don't come
close to that even with a 25% discount... I think I will call tomorrow.


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:18:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

In a message dated 96-10-28 10:12:30 EST, you write:

<< I saw in one of the posts that the GN had turbo assist.  Take out the
turbo
 and would the GN be an even match?  Probably not.  I feel that
comparing a
 68 442 to any new car is a little unfair since there are weight
considerations,
 mechanical assisting devices (like turbos), and even gasoline
considerations.
 These newer cars can digest today's gasoline with no problem, however,
my
 68 would rather have something more rich.
  >>

I would say it's a fair comparison in that the cars are about the same
weight, and the newer car has a V6 in it, compared to an 8 cyl.

Chris.

------------------------------

From: Rapid_Ron_L@prodigy.com (MR RONALD C LASKA)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:18:51 -0400
Subject: Bravada Information

I have a loud "clunk" in the front of the '93 Bravada at 94,000 miles
when I first start moving after parking a while.  Sounds expensive.
Any info?  I would like to exchange info about my maintenance
experiences with other owners.

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:08:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Bravada Information

>I have a loud "clunk" in the front of the '93 Bravada at 94,000 miles
>when I first start moving after parking a while.  Sounds expensive.
>Any info?  I would like to exchange info about my maintenance
>experiences with other owners.
>
I don't own a Bravada but what you describe sounds like a universal
joint going bad.  Mine made the same sound when they wore out.  Have you
noticed any vibration when you drive?  That's a sign of u-joint wear as
well.  If the Bravada has a conventional driveshaft/u-joint setup you
could check the universal joints for play.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:13:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Non computer control of 4th gear in a 200-4R

>Does anyone know if it is possible to use 4th gear in a 200-4R after
the >computer has been disconnected. Is it as simple as decreasing the
voltage? >If so  what is the voltage?  What is the purposes of those
four wires >entering the drivers side of the case. I would like to
install a  switch to >en gauge 4th gear when crusing down the highway
and disable it when driving >around town.

If the trans was made in `88 or before then the 4th gear shift is
valvebody actuated and the computer just controls lockup.  The lockup
just needs twelve volts as other repliers to the message have said.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:14:52 -0400
Subject: IRC

Is the Olds IRC chat still alive?  If so, what are the details.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:38:30 -0400
Subject: Poor man super chargers

I'll tell you what I did to a 1954 willys jeep, I replaced the ducting
with a radiator hose and stuck the spare blower (in a convenient box)
under the hood.  After replacing the oil bath with a paper one out of,
well I don't remember, the important thing was that the hose would clamp
on the spout. It had three handy speeds, but you had to run the carb a
little rich to use high.  It didn't work as well as I thought but there
was a big improvement.

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:45:50 -0400
Subject: Found: 62 Starfire conv.

Hello: I found a 62 Starfire convertible this last weekend.  It is
in the south end of a junkyard and luckily (I think) the chopper
is in the north end.
Car is probably typical yard material, no engine but trans might
be there as bucket seats occupy the engine bay.  The convertible
top bows are there, in the down position, meaning less likely to
be damaged.  Couldn't tell about the back seat as it was covered
by the hood!  Trunk lid was up with lots of beer cans in the trunk.
Tail lights are missing but I recall seeing the flashy Starfire
side trim.  Someone apparantly tried to cherry it out and cut the
floor under the steering wheel, probably to weld in better metal.
Looks like they just gave up.  Paint didn't seem all that, dark
red metallic with similar colored interior.  Did not get as good
a look as I wanted as a storm that produced three tornadoes was
rolling through and I got the beep outa there.  Little pieces of
metal were flying around!
I guess I am asking "Does this car merit saving?"  I just hate the
thought of it being flattened.  This guy does not save anything!
The father ran the yard and the son just cuts things up.  I went
there originally to get a 49 Ford rear window and asked him how
one goes about getting the glass out and he said "I don't know,
I've never removed one!"  So he will never lose any sleep over
crushing that Starfire.  E-mail me at "dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu"
if you are interested and I will look closer at the car over
Thanksgiving.  BTW, car is in eastern South Dakota.
dj
PS, there is also a 55/56 Olds and 61 Olds 4-door there and both
have good rear window glass.  Both have good trunk lids also I
believe.  The 61 is the one with the wraparound glass.  Not
much else good on the 55 though as there is a car perched on the
top/front fenders.  I can get the glass.

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:09:58 -0400
Subject: 67 425 crankshaft problems

 I just found out that the crankshaft in my 425 isn't drilled to accept
= the input shaft from a 4 speed.  A previous owner cut about 3/4 inch
off = the input shaft and bolted her in. =20 I was wondering two
things.. I have a 1966 400w/auto trans that came out = of a 442. Will
this engine have a crank already drilled to accept the 4 = speed?  Does
anyone in the OH/MI/PA area have an early 455 for sale or = possible
trade for the 66 400 with "B" heads and a switch pitch trans?

Thanks,
Ken
Cleveland, Oh

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:53:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Delmont Love

Having fallen hard for  your Delmont's sister- my '67 Delta 88    (see
my web page for her pictures - she's so pretty) I understand COMPLETELY.
Yeah, i'm fond of my 'cold' light too.  However, in nicknaming mine I
went off the license - TZJ which reminded me of a friends tatoo "Lizzie
J" (his wife) and she just naturally became Tizzy - a bit corny, but it
also fits her.

I have a 425 w/ a 2bbl (and 65,000 orig miles) and I LOVE letting her
get frisky, especially around some of these disposable 'youngsters' on
the road today - they're ALWAYS left with their mouths hanging open (and
Tizzy & I smiling away....) staring at that cool rear window....

Enjoy - and give Dell the winters off - she's come this far looking that
good - help her stay that way.






Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 02:48:58 -0400
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

After detailing your chassie for a show, it would be ashame to scratch
your freshly painted frame with a jack...

If you have a "sheep skin" buffing pad from a polisher or drill
attachment, slip it onto your jacking surface... it prevents metal to
metal contact and also a big scratch in your painted frame!

Resto Corner

- -Joe Ferrero

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 02:59:05 -0400
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Do you have an old guitar lying around because you lost interest, or
that band you were going to be famous in and "get all the babes" never
make it outside the second practice....

Put that guitar to good use!!!

2 people and a guitar string make a great windshield removal tool!

if you use a medium sized metal string (that has the ridges on it) clip
the tip at an angle and feed it through the rubber seal on the
windshield.

the weather stripping like butter.   You may wear the string out so if
you have that full guitar 3 strings may fully do the job or at the music
store, a couple of strings are only a couple of bucks!  (A lot cheaper
than a "store bought" tool!)

Rock On!!!!

Resto Corner

- -Joe Ferrero

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:47:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Increasing a cars value

>This is where I have mixed feelings with my 80 442. I would like to
modify
>it with chrome, some bolt on performance upgrades, etc, etc. But I
can not
>stand the thought of messing with a car so rare. 442's are common,
but mine
>is one of the rarest 442's ever made (886 produced)


I've seen the photo, Jason, and it's a beautiful (and rare, as you
mentioned) machine just the way it is.

If it were mine, I wouldn't mess with it.

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 87 Buick Somerset (near death)
 looking for another late 70s Olds in the near future

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:13:12 -0400
Subject: Re: IRC

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Dan Williams wrote:

> Is the Olds IRC chat still alive?  If so, what are the details.

Well, we can make it alive if anyone's interested. Don't think there
have been any sessions lately - we had one a few weeks ago that had a
few folks, but that was it. We were doing Thursday nights last spring,
and the most recent one was on a Wednesday, but it could be whenever
it's convenient.

The irc site is called irc.another.net and you will need an irc client
software package on your machine. A good one is called mirc, and info is
 available at http://www.mirc.co.uk . You can get either a 16 or 32-bit
 version, and it is free.

The best thing would probably be to take a poll to see if we have enough
 people interested to join in on a given night. You really need more
than 2 or 3 to have a decent chat session. What if I suggest next
Wednesday at 9PM Eastern - that will give people enough time to set up
their client software if they don't have it and check out irc in
general in the meantime.

What does everyone think?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Milone, Louis" <LMILONE@sunriver.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: re: 2004r codes (86 442 TH-2004R Trans...(long))

Resubmitting a good tranny breakdown....

________________________________________________________________
This answer is for Steve C, but I think it is benneficial to all on the
list.

Your 86 442 has a code 'KZF' TH-2004R trans.  This code can be found on
the passenger side of the trans near the driveshaft and is attached with
one rivet.  Sometimes these tags were installed backwards at the
factory, so it is possible that the code is facing the wrong way.  The
tag is a small piece of aluminum that will be either natural & yellow or
natural & blue and will have the 2 or 3 letter code on it along with the
serial number stamped on it.
 The serial number will also include the 2 or 3 letter code mentioned
above.
 This code is EXTREMELY important!  Since you said that the trans was
rebuilt, it is possible that the shop who did it just replaced it with
another trans they had laying around.  Most people do not know that
there is a difference between these trans.  I've had people tell me that
a "200-4R is a 200-4R", and that is wrong. The 442's, Monte SS's, and
Turbo Regals (TR's include Grand Nationals and T-Type's) have a unique
valve body.  This info came directly from an engineer from Hydromatic.
Although the casting numbers are the same, I am pretty sure that the
bore sizes of the valves within the valve body are different.

FYI
Codes for 200-4R's:
** KZF - 442's
** CZF - Monte SS's
** BRF - Turbo Regals
** OZ - Hurst's
OM - 350 Olds Diesels
OG - 307 Olds
BY - 252 V6 Cars
AA & AP - Cadillac's
The codes marked with the ** are the ones with the better valve bodies.
The valve body itself will have the first two letters painted on it.  Be
careful because the paint comes off easily.  The special valve bodies
usually have a purple strip on them also.

As for your problem, first check the easy things, like mentioned by
others on the list, like TV cable adjustment, and proper fluid level.
If you do not know how to adjust the TV cable, there is a good tech
article on the TR Web page [http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/ buick.html]
Some tranny's are very sensitive to the location of the TV cable, so
make sure you check this.  After you have done this, verify you have the
correct trans.  If you don't, go back to the shop and obtain your
original.  If it is allready gone, you have problems, if not, this is
all you have to do:  obtain the valve body, plate, 1-2 servo, 3-4
servo, 2-3 intermediate servo, and the governor.  If you swap these
parts into your trans, you have the equivalent of what your car
originally had.  If you are die hard original, tell them to rebuild you
original one so you can have the correct code.

I have just went through a *hit load of problems with a 200-4R I had
rebuilt to put behind the 403 in my 79 Cutlass.  I also have and 86 442
and really like the trans, so I decided to have one built.  Well it
turns out that the core that was used was an 'OG' code from a 307
powered car.  Needless to say, my shifts were extremely sloppy and I
had a hell of a flair between 2-3.
 Now
I was beginning to have second thoughts...  But I did some research and
spent
ALOT OF TIME on the TR Web page, and it payed off.  First of all, I
purchased
a used unit from a 86 Monte SS (after verifying its originality).  I
then swapped the above mentioned parts I told you to swap (governor,
valve body, & servo's) and this solved my problem.  I then installed a
Mike Kurtz shift kit and then the trans shifted second to none. Very
impressive.... Most guys on the TR mail list swear by Mike Kurtz and he
will spend some time with you on the phone to help you out.  He works at
PMAC and his number is 1-713-666-2616.  Most guys on the TR list will
suggest avoiding Art Carr and Trans Go kits because sometimes they
create problems (BIG ONES).  Other common upgrades for these trans are
hardened input stators, 10 vane pumps, and pressure regulator valves.

Hope this info helps....
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #348
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