To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/27/96 11:40:32 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #384


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 28 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 384


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:48:03 -0400
Subject: Got me a 66 Toro... NNnNN!

Whoa! Guess what *I* found... A 66 Toro!!

It's a very early 66, solid Trumpet Gold paint (no vinyl top). SWEET
color! White vinyl bench interior, headliner needs replaced. I had no
idea if the car ran except the guy said it ran great when he parked it
three years ago. Also a 67 Toro parts car. YES, what a find! Told the
owner I'd take everything.

Didn't even know if it ran except that he told me it ran great when he
parked it three years ago. He had run over something, torn the exhaust
off. With the exhaust the brakeline got yanked off too, so she got
parked.

I called him last night to let him know we were on the way to get it...
He said he threw a battery in her: starts right up, runs & drives (but
no brakes). "I am a fool for letting her go, man," he confided. "I
shoulda just threw brakes on and drove her!"

"That's exactly what I'm genna do; couldn'ta found a better home!" I
offered.

"Well, get down here before I change my mind."

I grabbed a friend and his dualie trailer & we set off.

Sure nuff, she started right up (with aid of gas squirt in Qjet... leaky
WPs), no muffler made her nice & throaty-sounding. What's this? Hey, a
brand-new muffler in the back seat! "That new muffler cost me $200," he
said. "Just haven't got around to throwing it on. Oh yeah, the CV
joints/boots are new; the trans was rebuilt just before I got it... I'll
dig up all the documentation for what's been done."

Wow, the expensive stuff's all taken care of! Rebuild the Qjet; fix the
brakes/ exhaust, have a headliner put in. Then drive her & be happy!

Imagine our dismay when she wouldn't fit on that trailer! Will go back
with a bigger car hauler tonight. Soon she'll be gracing my apartment's
crowded parking lot (along with the 68 442 on jackstands... pushing my
luck!).

Ahhh, feels *good* to have me a Toro!

How's that go, Mike? NNnNN?!? ;^)


- -Darren Shroeger
 Teal Blue 68 442 4 spd; Juneau Gray 68 Delmont

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:58:47 -0400
Subject: Resto  Tips  ..... (Steering Wheel)

OK...

of course the best bet is a steering wheel removal tool, but if you have
the time and the parts, make one.....

What you need is an angle iron ( L shape ) about 6" long.
2 threaded rods with nuts (that fit the smaller holes on either side of
the center shaft)and a bolt (about 1/2" in diameter) and a Nut that fits
the bolt

In the angle iron, drill 2 holes that are the same distance apart as the
holes in the wheel.  Drill a Hole (larger than the largest bolt) in the
center - --between the 2 smaller holes...

Weld the big nut to this larger hole so it becomes "Threaded".

Now you have your tool...

put the threaded rod through the smaller holes of the bracket into the
smaller holes of the wheel.  use nuts and washers to make it close to
the wheel...

now put your larger bolt into the "threaded hole"  (note:  this bolt
should be at least 6" long)...  this bolt will meet the center post /
shaft.

Tighten the center bolt, and it will press the steering wheel off.

\


I hope this resto tip helps a few of you restorers (and the wheels from
being beaten beyond recognition).


Resto Corner

- -joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:11:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Got me a 66 Toro... NNnNN!

Darren Shroeger wrote:
>
> Whoa! Guess what *I* found... A 66 Toro!!

All righty then!

> Ahhh, feels *good* to have me a Toro!

Ahhh...  Know the feeling.  Mucho congratulations, Darren.  The rest of
the Toro-weenies well be real glad to hear this.  And now you be able to
 irritate the rest of the Olds world with impunity!  Smoke them front
tires!  Screeeeeccchhhhhhhh....

> How's that go, Mike? NNnNN?!? ;^)

Yupper!  (Newbie translation: "Nah-nah-na-nah-nah")

> -Darren Shroeger
>  Teal Blue 68 442 4 spd; Juneau Gray 68 Delmont

        ^^^^^^^^^^       Looking forward to the updated list.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:19:01 -0400
Subject: White Trash

>P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?

Would that be a "White Trash" truck?

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible
.^. lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________
/9|8\ (810) 825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |
\}|{/ Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=
v

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:24:53 -0400
Subject: NOS carbs f/s

*Rocket Scientist sticks head in the door momentarily, announces:*

"Well, I did it, found & obtained the following NOS carbs:

7029251 = Olds 4V, many applications. $450

for the discriminating purchaser:

7029253 = 1969 442 exc. W30 $600

for the REALLY discriminating buyer: I found a

7029254 = 1969 442 >>> w/ W30 <<<  $800/ trade for 7028254
   dated 2361: must be a factory service carb.

Also, I can provide the following numbers, all either NOS or GM service
parts in the Delco box, or rebuilt in white box. Prices vary
accordingly. There is one used carb in there, the 1970 442 w/ W30 AT
carb.

7026250 = Basic '66 Olds 330 carb. NOS. $200

7027131 = 1967 ?? Toro??

7028231 = '68 Cadillac ???
7028250 = '68 Olds basic 4V, Rebuilt.
7028251 = '68 Olds BB 4V, including 442 [?]
7028252 = '68 Toro, remanufactured, Looks new.
7028261 = '68 Pontiac ??
7028262 = '68 Pontaic ??
7028266 = '68 Pontiac ??
7028269 = '68 Pontiac ??

7029156 = '69 Olds 350-2V NOS, P/N 7016956
7029202 = '69 Chevy ??
7029241 = '69 Buick ??
7029250 = '69 Olds basic 4V, 350 ??
7029251 = '69 Olds BB 4V, including 442 [????] Rebuilt
7029252 = '69 Olds Toro
7029253 = '69 Olds 442, exc. W30?? [includes W30 AT ??]
7029254 = '69 Olds 442, w/  W30 >> NOS <<  $800 or trade for 7028254
7029262 = '69 Pontiac?
7029268 = '69 Pontiac?

7040244 = '70 Buick ??
7040251 = '70 Olds BB 4V
7040258 = '70 Olds 442 w/ W30 & ATrans. USED as is $500, Rebuilt $700.
7040262 = '70 Pontiac?
7040263 = '70 Pontiac?
7040264 = '70 Pontiac? >>> NOS <<<

7041250 = '71 Olds basic 4V- 350??
7041252 = '71 Toro?
7041264 = '71 Pontiac?
7041540 = '71 ???

7042237 = '72 Chevy ??
7042244 = '72 Buick ??
7042252 = '72 Olds Toro ??
7042262 = '72 Pontiac ??
7042274 - '72 Pontiac ??

7042264 = '72 Pontiac?
7042274 = '72 Pontiac?

7043251 = '73 Olds

17040509 = ??
17054942 = '84?? Olds, model??
- ---------------------------------------------

I don't know how long these will be available. Didn't have time to note
which were rebuilt vs. Factory Service Carbs in Delco Box vs. NOS.

Also, there's a really funky old old OLDS? carb, a 2V unit with a sort
of a square base mount, and an air horn [top piece] that bends 90
degrees to point straight fwd or backward... Nice & new.

Oh, yeah, and my thesis in progressing, have the outline done and maybe
25% of the writing..." - -- Please contact me via email if these pique
your interest. Or, you could phone I guess...

Oh, btw, Angela, my wife now has an AOL account, 50 free hours, you
know, feel free to drop her a WELCOME line at:
    Rocketette@aol.com

Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist  [Carb Kingpin??]
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing, MI 48911
517-882-9747 evenings, or leave message anytime.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:28:13 -0400
Subject: Re: White Trash

Robert Lawrence wrote:
>
> >P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?
>
> Would that be a "White Trash" truck?

We'll have to verify that with Bill Culp.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:40:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fastest Olds

>> The Wiz,
>>
>> P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?
>
>Wiz,
>
>I know.  I know.  Chevy orange!
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>          Wait a minute!  Since when is Charlie Buehner signing Bill
>          Culp's name to his posts? ;-)
>
I'm afraid he ~actually~ beat me to that post :(

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:40:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

>Could one of the Toro-heads or the parts gods tell me if the
>air cleaner housing from a Toronado (the double snorkle kind)
>would fit under the hood of my 98?  The specific years in
>question are a 69 98 and a 68-69 Toronado.  The 98 has a
>455 with a Q-jet.  I don't know about the Toronado but it
>should be either a 425 or a 455 with a Q-jet, right?
>I'm no Toro expert but I don't think they put other engines/carbs
>in Toronados those years... (and I'm sure that if I'm wrong someone
>will correct me :)

A friend of mine has one on his '67 Impala :(  Came from a '67 Toro, as
I recall.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:49:37 -0400
Subject: Condenser/Capacitor/RF Suppressor

Hi,
I recently had to replace my Condenser/Capacitor/RF Suppressor on my
coil (not the one in the distributor) due to a broken lead.  It has a
metal bracket which I believe goes to ground and then has a single lead
coming out of the unit.  This lead was previously attached to the
Negative(-) terminal of the coil.  However, one of the few legible pages
of the '70 Cutlass Assembly Manual states that the radio capacitor lead
should be installed under the Positive(+) terminal (Section 6-1, Page
115, Figure 3 if any of you are interested).  I also have the latest
issue of Hot Rod Annual and on page 23 they show a picture of the RF
Suppressor lead attached to the Negative(-) terminal but they fail to
mention anything about it in the entire article.  When it is attached to
either terminal, the RF Suppressor works quite well by eliminating the
static noise.  Does anybody know which terminal it should be hooked up
to?  Can any damage occur to the RF Suppressor by having it hooked up to
the wrong terminal?  Thanks in advance.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... (Steering Wheel)

>of course the best bet is a steering wheel removal tool, but if you
have the >time and the parts, make one.....

No offense, Joe, but by the time you've located your angle iron, cut it
to length, drilled a bunch of holes, located assorted long bolts of the
correct length, diameter and thread pitch, welded a large nut onto the
center, done other assorted measurements and miscellaneous dithering,
well, you probably could have _walked_ to Sears and back to buy a
puller. :-)

I'm reminded of the old Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner cartoons where Wile
E. gets a bright idea, runs offscreen, we hear a ton of banging,
hammering, sawing, etc., and seconds later he re-emerges with some
hodge-podge of parts he's hastily assembled into a Road-Runner Catcher
(pat.pend.) which of course will not only collapse on top of him, but
also somehow propel him off a cliff.

In the next scene, he has decided to take the easy way out, and simply
buys a spiffy new Acme brand steering-wheel puller. It will probably
all but kill him somehow, I know...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Roger T. Schultz" <schultz_assoc@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:09:23 -0400
Subject: Subscription

Subscribe Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:16:33 -0400
Subject: Re: THM-350 Woes

I hate to be the one to tell you what your problem is.  The problem
you describe from your own diagnois with the change of fluids and
filters and the modulator is that the clutches from 2-3 shift are
probably burnt up.  The clutchs are what enable you to go from 1-2,2-3
shift. I say it is time for a trans rebuild.  When you changed the trans
oil the first time, was the fluid a brownish color and have a burnt
smell. If you decide to rebuild the Th350, flush out the torque
converter also. from this problem the filter was probably also plugged
up with clutch material.  This isn't always metal shavings, the clutchs
are built with an abestos type material.  Racing clutchs are built with
Kavlar and such materials hopes this helps

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:18:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

> To the best of my knowledge the 68-69 Toro's only had single snorkle
> air cleaners.  Even the W-34 Toro's I have owned (a '68 and a '70)
> have only one snorkle with a cold air duct attached. 1966 and '67
> Toro's were the only years with dual inlets. A very low profile one
> too!

(around 1 3/4" acording to Mike)

> I put one on a '73 cutlass 350 and it looked strange.  It barely
> cleared the valve covers and sat REALLY low!

Hmm... I didn't think about that -- might be a problem on the 455
as well..

> The real difference in '68 and newer cars is that the Toro's snorkle
> faced the drivers side of the car and all '68 to '72 full size cars
> face the passenger side.  In '73,  all snorkles faced the drivers
> side.  Little help when trying to hook up the hot-air pipe!

Exactly.  Only I found this out the hard way.  I got a $10 air cleaner
from the junk yard off a mid 80's something and when I got it home I
realized that the snorkle was on the wrong side.

> How about welding an additional snorkle on to your air cleaner off
> of another full size car???

Well, I do have a correct air cleaner for a 2bbl carb left over from
when I swapped Tiny back from 2 to 4. (some fool put a 2 on there..
I couldn't believe it)  I guess I could cut that one up and try
to blend them into one useful air cleaner housing.  Problem is I
don't have much pratice with a torch...  (Side note if anyone wants
a 2bbl intake, carb and air cleaner for a 455, let me know  )

The whole reason that I started this is that I saw someone locally had
a double snorkle setup from a Toro for sale for I think $25.  Since I've
had zero luck finding a "regular" air cleaner housing I thought I might
take a crack at the Toro part, if it fits.  I don't really NEED the
extra snorkle from an airflow standpoint... at last not yet... <grin>

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:23:44 -0400
Subject: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

> The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
> "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them
> direct drive, which is ususual ...
> The reason they turn the Olds upside-down is to get the crank/prop
> hub higher off of the ground.

What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
rings, and other things would be problems.  Then again I imagine any
auto to aircraft engine conversion would require some major work in
these areas since the aircraft doesn't always fly level...

I'm thinking it would be fun to install an engine upsiddown in
a show car and tell people it was a factory option for high
altitudes or something like that... :)  It'd still be fun even
if you didn't BS people, just to see the look on their face when
you pop the hood.

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:23:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete

> The concrete floor, usually a garage floor, will be chilled at night
> by the ground below to a temperature lower than that of the
surrounding > air. Condensation forming on the case of the cold battery
from the > surrounding air (especially in a garage with running cars,
pumping out > high-humidity exhaust daily) will serve as a
low-resistance path from > one terminal to the other.

So it's not anything special about concrete, any cold-temperature
surface will work.  Also this probably woudln't be as much of a
problem in say Arizona as it is here in Dallas (or worse Atlanta).
At least that makes some sense.  However it means that all the
people I know that put a battery on the dirt ground instead of
the concrete aren't really avoiding the problem... oh well.

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:23:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... (Steering Wheel)

>I'm reminded of the old Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner cartoons where Wile
>E. gets a bright idea, runs offscreen, we hear a ton of banging,
hammering, >sawing, etc., and seconds later he re-emerges with some
hodge-podge of >parts he's hastily assembled into a Road-Runner Catcher
(pat.pend.) which >of course will not only collapse on top of him, but
also somehow propel >him off a cliff. >

 I believe this was the origin of that JATO story too.  ;)



Todd Hall
mailto:thall@en.com
Cleveland, OH
1972 4-4-2




------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

> There were two dragsters built, and given some play in the hot rod
> mags of the 50's/60's, that were evolved around the Allison V1710.
>
> One was called Alsetta (sp.) and was an Isetta with an Allison
> installed.

The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one refrigerator-style
door in the front).  I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower
engine in there without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the
wrong "Isetta".  So what was the "right" Isetta?  Where can I see one?

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete

>So it's not anything special about concrete, any cold-temperature
>surface will work.

Well, yes, the point being that the ground can become colder than
the air, thus chilling anything sitting on it to a temperature
colder than that of the surrounding air, at which point condensation
starts to form.

You could test for the same effect with two pieces of bare metal.
Put one on the ground, the other on a shelf in the same location,
and see which one rusts faster.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Roger T. Schultz" <schultz_assoc@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:35:22 -0400
Subject: Manifold

I need a 455 Quadrajet intake manifold for my '72 442.  Stock, EGR, no
cracks.  Anyone got one?

phone:  415/964-5899
fax:  415/966-1245
email:  schultz_assoc@pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:34:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

>The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
>was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one refrigerator-style
>door in the front).  I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower
>engine in there without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the
>wrong "Isetta".  So what was the "right" Isetta?  Where can I see one?

Dunno about the "right" one as described above, but AltaVista yielded
a nice series of photos showing a typical Isetta, partly dismantled, at

http://www.netten.net/ROADSHOW/isetta.htm

Type carefully and note those CAPITAL letters...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:43:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto Tips ..... (Steering Wheel)

> >I'm reminded of the old Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner cartoons where
Wile > >E. gets a bright idea, runs offscreen, we hear a ton of
banging, hammering, > >sawing, etc., and seconds later he re-emerges
with some hodge-podge of > >parts he's hastily assembled into a
Road-Runner Catcher (pat.pend.) which > >of course will not only
collapse on top of him, but also somehow propel > >him off a cliff. > > >
 >  I believe this was the origin of that JATO story too.  ;)

Okay, I'll be sure to buy my JATO/RATO unit from Acme instead of trying
to make it myself, darn it, I guess that I had all that solid rocket
fuel laying about for nothing d;-b

My Cutlass may soon be accepting "liquid rocket" fuel again as I just
got my carb. back from a rebuild yesterday.  Only $30 plus the price of
the kit, seemed reasonable to me!  I would have done it myself, but
I've been told numerous times NEVER to screw with a q-jet (or
quadrajunk depending on whether or not yours is running) because if you
don't know what your doing, stuff will fly out at you?  Any truth to
this?  If not, I've got 2 more to play with!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete

> You could test for the same effect with two pieces of bare metal.
> Put one on the ground, the other on a shelf in the same location,
> and see which one rusts faster.
>
> Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

Don't have much to do this winter up there in Chicagoland do ya' :-)

Seriously though, thanks for the tip, it sounds logical.  And I can just
 think of all the times that I've told a person not to set a battery
down on concrete, and then went and set it down on just as cold
dirt/wood/etc. I'm sure that everybody else has done this a time or two
though right, hello, I don't hear anybody, hello! :-o

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:58:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

In a message dated 96-11-27 11:12:03 EST, you write:

<< >You'd need the main black plastic housing that the gauges screwed
 >into for this.  It spans from the corner vent to just past the clock
 >and surrounding vents (The smaller dash pad mounts to this piece as
 >well.)  The headlight switch plugs directly into the wiring harness,
 >which mounts directly to this large plastic housing (what the @^%&#
 >is that thing called!?? :)

 Umm... the "cluster housing"? Study it carefully before spending a
 lot of time with it: those things did _not_ age well and the plastic
 or fibreglass or whatever it was made of is rather brittle. Same for
 the light blue plastic gauge housing. Look for broken fasteners,
 especially along the lower edge of the wide rectangular dash surround
 that attaches to the front. Pick a car where the dash hasn't already
 been ripped open and unscrew things carefully.

I took the whole blue cluster guage housing, it was in fine condition,
and of course made sure I saved every bolt I pulled off it (demned
things are easy to lose, can't hurt to have a few extras anyways).  As I
said in a previous post, the donor car is an '83, and my car is an '81,
and the black "backing panel" that covers the opening in the dash behind
the cluster, looks identical to mine (location of mouonting holes, etc.)
so I posed the question of ....   are they going to be different, since
the "clusters" and clock, etc. are all the same size, shape, etc.
between the two cars.


 >>Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body
 >>colored mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine
 >>has the chrome "box" ones),
 >     Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on one of these cars, either!
 >I guess I'm pampered up here!  Some of these actually had passenger
 >side remote (body-colored sport) mirrors, too!  My '83 does, and I've
 >never seen another one!  The control is in the lower dash just to the
 >right of the steering column.

 ...and may have seized up from old age. See if you can get the mirror
 to work with the control -- squirt WD-40 or Liquid Wrench into the back
 of the mirror, poke at the glass with your fingers, whatever...

Yeah, I'll check them over first, even if I needed a new cable, and they
needed a cleaning, I'm sure I could get them at a decent price, to make
it worthwhile anyways.

>(Opposite side of column has identical size box with cruise button,
 >and some had rear defrost there, instead...)

 I think it may be only the pre-'82 (or maybe pre-'81) Cutlasses that
 have the rear defrost elsewhere: up at top center above the analog
 clock (if so equipped). I have a spare center panel snagged from an
 older wagon with that switch up there.

 Andrew C. Green  >>

On this one the rear defrost switch is to the lower left of the steering
column.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: "Roger T. Schultz" <schultz_assoc@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:59:59 -0400
Subject: Manifold

I need a 455 Quadrajet intake manifold for my '72 442.  Stock, EGR, no
cracks.  Anyone got one?

phone:  415/999-0431
fax:  415/966-1245
email:  schultz_assoc@pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:58:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....Dashboard question...

In a message dated 96-11-27 02:40:04 EST, you write:

<< >I picked up the guage package, actual clock (analog w/hands, rather
than the
 >cheesy "psuedo" digital one), new style of light switch (rather than
pull
 >knob type),

 You'd need the main black plastic housing that the guages screwed into
for
 this.  It spans from the corner vent to just past the clock and
surrounding
 vents (The smaller dash pad mounts to this piece as well.)

The piece on the '83 looks like it is identical to mine (I have an '81),
so I didn't grab it, it was all the way out since I took the connectors
(wiring) by cutting them back as far as I could pull out (within reason)
to give me something to work with later.  Is there anyone out there who
has done a swap to the guage pack, and knows they are different from
each other.  Should I go back and grab the other one?  It's still there,
and it is already out, but I don't care to grab it if it's identical to
mine.

The headlight
 switch plugs directly into the wiring harness, which mounts directly to
this
 large plastic housing (what the @^%&# is that thing called!?? :)  The
old
 style has the wiper switch mounted in the location this new switch
goes.
 Did you get the steering column?

  Anyway, back to this large plastic
 nameless mounting panel thingy!  Behind this headlight switch, after
the
 whole panel's removed, you'll find a piece of ductwork and an air hose
going
 down to the crotch-cooler vent.  This is a nice piece to grab, 'cuz
you're
 new vent will be worthless without it.  (if your car doesn't have A/C
I'm
 assuming?  You'd mentioned just a flat panel being there, but I've
never
 seen one of these, so I'm just guessing, here....)

I didn't grab the steering column yet, but that is also on the list too,
and I'm not planning on using the new vent, don't care to run ducts over
to it, just gonna cover the backside of it.

 >Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body colored
 >mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine has the chrome
"box"
 >ones),
      Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on one of these cars, either!  I
guess
 I'm pamperred up here!  Some of these actually had passenger side
remote
 (body-colored sport) mirrors, too!  My '83 does, and I've never seen
another
 one!  The control is in the lower dash just to the right of the
steering
 column.  (Opposite side of column has identical size box with cruise
button,
 and some had rear defrost there, instead...)

Both mirrors are cable operated remotes, one is mounted next to the
radio/heat control console, and the other is on the door (from what
remeber).

See ya,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:57:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Got me a 66 Toro... NNnNN!

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> Darren Shroeger wrote:
> >
> > Whoa! Guess what *I* found... A 66 Toro!!
>
> All righty then!
>
> > Ahhh, feels *good* to have me a Toro!
>
> Ahhh...  Know the feeling.  Mucho congratulations, Darren.  The rest
of > the Toro-weenies well be real glad to hear this.  And now you be
able to > irritate the rest of the Olds world with impunity!  Smoke them
front > tires!  Screeeeeccchhhhhhhh.... > > > How's that go, Mike?
NNnNN?!? ;^) > > Yupper!  (Newbie translation: "Nah-nah-na-nah-nah") > >
> -Darren Shroeger > >  Teal Blue 68 442 4 spd; Juneau Gray 68 Delmont >
 >         ^^^^^^^^^^       Looking forward to the updated list. > >
The 66 Toro and Mike > > -- > Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated >      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation &
Communication >      (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/


Congratulations Darren!
Hey Mike thanks for the Newbie translation.
OH, Eggcrate or what's the other, Darren has both.
What shape is the 67 parts Toro in?
Reg

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds **non-olds
content**)

Well the oil would certainly have a hard time draining back into the pan
 when you cut the motor off, unless that is, you bolted the pan up
somehow on the top, errr, bottom, errr whatever.  I guess you might be
able to somehow rig an external oil holder or something.  I'd think
that the coolant would be o-kay as long as you kept if full.  The water
pump would do all of the work anyway!  I'd say that the motor would
"have to" be EFI though.  Upside down carburretor would not be good!

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:

> > The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
> > "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them
> > direct drive, which is ususual ...
> > The reason they turn the Olds upside-down is to get the crank/prop
> > hub higher off of the ground.
>
> What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
> I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
> rings, and other things would be problems.  Then again I imagine any
> auto to aircraft engine conversion would require some major work in
> these areas since the aircraft doesn't always fly level...
>
> I'm thinking it would be fun to install an engine upsiddown in
> a show car and tell people it was a factory option for high
> altitudes or something like that... :)  It'd still be fun even
> if you didn't BS people, just to see the look on their face when
> you pop the hood.
>
> - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
> --
> Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products
Division > tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications
Corporation > > >

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:15:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....Dashboard question...

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 CRuper1@aol.com wrote:
>  >Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body
colored >  >mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine has
the chrome "box" >  >ones), >       Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on
one of these cars, either!  I guess >  I'm pamperred up here!  Some of
these actually had passenger side remote >  (body-colored sport)
mirrors, too!  My '83 does, and I've never seen another >  one!  The
control is in the lower dash just to the right of the steering >
column.  (Opposite side of column has identical size box with cruise
button, >  and some had rear defrost there, instead...) > Both mirrors
are cable operated remotes, one is mounted next to the > radio/heat
control console, and the other is on the door (from what remeber).

Our old '78 Grand Lemans had dual remote sport mirrors that were body
colored. The passenger side one was controlled by a knob on the dash
near the heater controls. The thing never worked even when new... you
could play with the knob and the mirror would sort of move, but never
in any kind of coordinated way. Complaints to the dealer were met with
a response of, "oh, they're all like that... those things just don't
work right". Don't know if that was just dealer doublespeak or factual.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

>> The aluminum Olds 215 is popular...turn them upside-down and run them
>> direct drive

>What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
>I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
>rings, and other things would be problems.

I thought the same things.  What about carburation?  Would the carb and
intake mount on the now underside of the engine?  Do they use
carburators on planes?  Where would you put the oil pump and pan?  How
would you keep the combustion chambers from filling with oil?

The mind boggles...

I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted 215's.


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:12:04 -0400
Subject: Rebuilding Q-jets

 I would have done it myself, but I've been
>told numerous times NEVER to screw with a q-jet (or quadrajunk
depending >on whether or not yours is running) because if you don't
know what your >doing, stuff will fly out at you?  Any truth to this?
If not, I've got 2 >more to play with!

I've rebuilt several, never had any problems.  There are a couple books
available on the Quadrajet carbs, though I can't recall the titles off
the top of my head...maybe someone else can.  They're indispensable when
rebuilding/adjusting/fine tuning your carb! - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:10:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

>> ...and may have seized up from old age. See if you can get the mirror
>> to work with the control -- squirt WD-40 or Liquid Wrench into the
back >> of the mirror, poke at the glass with your fingers, whatever... >
 >Yeah, I'll check them over first, even if I needed a new cable, and
they >needed a cleaning, I'm sure I could get them at a decent price, to
make it >worthwhile anyways.

Oh, one other thing about the mirrors which I learned when doing this
same swap (exchanging driver's-side-only chrome mirror for dual
body-color mirrors) on my '76 Cutlass: The other A-bodies
(Century/LeMans/Chevelle) used the same mirrors but different base
gaskets to compensate for the different angles of the door skin. I
actually ended up getting mirrors off a Buick, then using Cutlass base
gaskets to get the right angle. This may not apply to the '80's
Cutlasses but thought I'd mention it just in case...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:28:56 -0400
Subject: oddball mods :0 (was Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest
Olds **non-olds content**))

Hi all, I guess that I'm just in a mood tonight!

What are the most oddball mods to an oldsmobile that you can think of!
(short of putting a 36hp VW motor in a Delta 88).  Impossible, or not, I
 just want to hear what you think.  Here are my entries:

1st generation Toro motor/transaxle swapped into a late 80's FWD Delta
88. or Get the largest 98/88/whatever you can find and (using airplane
parts if you have to) just make sure that when you are done, there is
sh*t stickup up out of the hood!  d:-b

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Clayton Pierce

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:35:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

> Oh, one other thing about the mirrors which I learned when doing this
> same swap (exchanging driver's-side-only chrome mirror for dual
body-color > mirrors) on my '76 Cutlass: The other A-bodies
(Century/LeMans/Chevelle) > used the same mirrors but different base
gaskets to compensate for the > different angles of the door skin. I
actually ended up getting mirrors > off a Buick, then using Cutlass base
gaskets to get the right angle. > This may not apply to the '80's
Cutlasses but thought I'd mention it > just in case...

80's Cutlass' and 80's Regal's doors were interchangeable.  Grand Prix's
 and Monte Carlo's doors were not interchangeable with the Cutlass
doors. Maybe this helps some!

Oh, when I say 80's I mean '81 to '87, other years may be different.
This info was from a parts manual at a local junkyard, so the info
"should" be correct.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Clayton Pierce

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:37:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding Q-jets

Thanks Dave, I'll try rebuilding at least one of the one's I've got
left, if any of you remember that book, PLEASE respond to me.

Thankx,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:

>  I would have done it myself, but I've been
> >told numerous times NEVER to screw with a q-jet (or quadrajunk
depending > >on whether or not yours is running) because if you don't
know what your > >doing, stuff will fly out at you?  Any truth to this?
If not, I've got 2 > >more to play with! > > I've rebuilt several,
never had any problems.  There are a couple books > available on the
Quadrajet carbs, though I can't recall the titles off the > top of my
head...maybe someone else can.  They're indispensable when >
rebuilding/adjusting/fine tuning your carb! > -- > Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme > Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS > dpauliso@gate.net > > >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:32:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Got me a 66 Toro... NNnNN!

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
>
> Whoa! Guess what *I* found... A 66 Toro!!
>
> He said
> he threw a battery in her: starts right up, runs & drives (but no
brakes). > > > Sure nuff, she started right up (with aid of gas squirt
in Qjet... leaky WPs), > no muffler made her nice & throaty-sounding.
What's this? Hey, a brand-new > muffler in the back seat! "That new
muffler cost me $200," he said. "Just > haven't got around to throwing
it on. Oh yeah, the CV joints/boots are new; > the trans was rebuilt
just before I got it...

> Wow, the expensive stuff's all taken care of! Rebuild the Qjet; fix
the brakes/ > exhaust, have a headliner put in. Then drive her & be
happy! > > Soon she'll be gracing my apartment's crowded > parking lot
(along with the 68 442 on jackstands... pushing my luck!). > > Ahhh,
feels *good* to have me a Toro! > > How's that go, Mike? NNnNN?!? ;^) >
 > -Darren Shroeger


Darren,

It couldn't happen to a nicer fella.  Those are tough wonderful cars.
Congratulations.  Mine is still gold w/white (cream) interior.  I am
changing it to Tahoe Turquoise Metallic as soon as the shop will get off
it's duff & paint it.

Seeing as how you have a parts car, if there any extra disc brake trim
rings or a full wheel cover (1967), I'd like to know what you'd take for
them.

You are probably pushing your luck, but everyone is envying you now
w/the 442.  The Toro will just move you up another class.

You're right about the expensive parts.  You have them taken care of.
The correct headliner can be bought from Tamaraz's ($80) & probably
elsewhere.  The brakes are a little expensive - especially the hoses
($35 each).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:43:27 -0400
Subject: '81 Calais Parts

Does anybody need any parts from an '81 Calais?  I'm keeping the center
console/shifter, and guages.  Anything else is pretty well fair-game.
Motor is a '79 Olds 350 out of a Cutlass.  If there is anything you
need, e-mail me, and we'll figure out something.  I'm in East
Tennessee.  Oh, and I'm also keeping the header panel (already off of
it) and the  wheels.

One question some of you may be able to answer.  Do the 15' factory
cutlass wheels (the body color ones) have the same size chrome rings and
 center-caps as the 14' factory wheels (again body color).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Clayton Pierce

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:43:09 -0400
Subject: Re: White Trash

> >
> > >P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?
> >
> > Would that be a "White Trash" truck?
>
> We'll have to verify that with Bill Culp.   ;)
>
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>


Mike,

You can't verify it here.  We don't got no white trash!  We sent all
them thar Yankees packing long ago.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jeff Davis.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:54:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> > There were two dragsters built, and given some play in the hot rod
> > mags of the 50's/60's, that were evolved around the Allison V1710.
> >
> > One was called Alsetta (sp.) and was an Isetta with an Allison
> > installed.
>
> The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
> was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one refrigerator-style
> door in the front).  I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower
> engine in there without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the
> wrong "Isetta".  So what was the "right" Isetta?  Where can I see one?
>
> - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>

Travis,

My mother & stepfather had an Isetta as you describe when I had just
obtained my drivers license.  Anything bigger than an Olds wiper motor
would have seriously overstressed the whole thing.  That was a wild ride
even at 45.  I don't think it went any faster (at least this 16 year-old
coundn't make it happen). It had a 3-speed shifter on the left side
panel (the door is to the front) & a combination starter/generator.
That starter/generator did the car in when it failed.  The cost of
repairs was beyond the cost of a car (not an Isetta) & so it "vanished"
in the night.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:56:18 -0400
Subject: Re: '81 Calais Parts

>One question some of you may be able to answer.  Do the 15' factory
>cutlass wheels (the body color ones) have the same size chrome rings
and >center-caps as the 14' factory wheels (again body color).

The center caps are the same size; trim rings are a different size.  I
assume we're talking about SSII or SSIII wheels here...

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:00:36 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> > The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
> > "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them
> > direct drive, which is ususual ...
> > The reason they turn the Olds upside-down is to get the crank/prop
> > hub higher off of the ground.
>
> What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
> I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
> rings, and other things would be problems.  Then again I imagine any
> auto to aircraft engine conversion would require some major work in
> these areas since the aircraft doesn't always fly level...
>
>>
> - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>

Travis,

Everyone knows that you operate the plane upside down so as to make
everything right w/the engine.  It does make it a little rough on pilots
trying to jump into their 3-point harnesses though.

I hope that I never see my 215 turbo car operate upside down.  The roof
is only bolted on.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:05:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto Tips ..... (Steering Wheel)

> My Cutlass may soon be accepting "liquid rocket" fuel again as I just
got > my carb. back from a rebuild yesterday.  Only $30 plus the price
of the > kit, seemed reasonable to me!  I would have done it myself, but
I've been > told numerous times NEVER to screw with a q-jet (or
quadrajunk depending > on whether or not yours is running) because if
you don't know what your > doing, stuff will fly out at you?  Any truth
to this?  If not, I've got 2 > more to play with! > > Peace, Goodwill,
and Happy Oldsmobilling, > Clayton Pierce, > Clayton,

Just follow the directions in the kit precisely & nothing goes wrong.
With several carbs around you always have a pattern. Just don't take the
carb apart on the engine your first time out.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:12:50 -0400
Subject: Re: '81 Calais Parts

     Center caps, yes.  Trim rings no.  If you can't find replacement
trim
     rings (used ones are usually thrashed from people hitting curbs),
JC
     Whitney sells some pretty nice ones for a reasonable price.  Let me

     know and I'll go look at mine to find the exact size I ordered and
how
     much they cost.

     What color is the interior on that '81 Calais?

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: '81 Calais Parts Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/27/96 3:05 PM

One question some of you may be able to answer.  Do the 15' factory
cutlass wheels (the body color ones) have the same size chrome rings and
 center-caps as the 14' factory wheels (again body color).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Clayton Pierce


------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:30:04 -0400
Subject: RE:

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDC92.DC34BBC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Chuck,

The H/OCA address is:

Hurst/Olds Club of America
1600 Knight Road
Ann Arbor, MI  48103-9303


Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

- ----------
From: 	Chuck Kapigian[SMTP:chuck@mhbc.hbocvan.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, November 27, 1996 10:04 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

   I would like some information on how to join the Hurst/Olds Club of
America.




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iqgi
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ci5y
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QU5O
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AAAF
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uty7 AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AABc5A==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDC92.DC34BBC0--

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:11:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
> was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one refrigerator-style
> door in the front).

That's the guy.  Built by the motorcycle part of BMW.  Had four wheels
but because the rear wheels were closer than something like 12" it was
classed as a motorcycle.

> I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower engine in there
> without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the wrong "Isetta".

Not if you just glue the "pod" to the motor.  Sounds like something
looney old Art Arfons's would do.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Edison 3 <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:12:05 -0400
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: Edison 3 <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:12:45 -0400
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:51:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....Mirror swap...

In a message dated 96-11-27 17:26:41 EST, you write:

<< Oh, one other thing about the mirrors which I learned when doing this
 same swap (exchanging driver's-side-only chrome mirror for dual
body-color
 mirrors) on my '76 Cutlass: The other A-bodies
(Century/LeMans/Chevelle)
 used the same mirrors but different base gaskets to compensate for the
 different angles of the door skin. I actually ended up getting mirrors
 off a Buick, then using Cutlass base gaskets to get the right angle.
 This may not apply to the '80's Cutlasses but thought I'd mention it
 just in case... >>

I'm not sure that would be the case.  I guess I've always thought the
'81 on cars were pretty much identical, except for slight variation in
design styling (such as the change in tail lights someone discussed,
which was about the early, and newers ones had some type of difference,
such as an emblem on it, or not).  I'd sort of figured that panels were
all pretty much identical (skins, etc.), so they could all be swapped
with not major harmful effects.
 Am I right (newer cutlass guys)?

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:54:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete (was: Re: Winter Storage Question)

At 15:48 11/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>> ... remove the battery and keep it off a concrete floor (even if
>>> this is an old wives tail, even olds wives tails have their root
>>> in truth).
>>
>>[...] My thoughts are that
>>the battery case is all plastic so how could it interact with the
concrete? > >The concrete floor, usually a garage floor, will be
chilled at night >by the ground below to a temperature lower than that
of the surrounding >air. Condensation forming on the case of the cold
battery from the >surrounding air (especially in a garage with running
cars, pumping out >high-humidity exhaust daily) will serve as a
low-resistance path from >one terminal to the other. Hence the advice
to put the battery on a >shelf or at least on a thick block of wood to
serve as a temperature >insulator from the floor. > >But don't just take
my word for it; this is the sort of thing you can >test for yourself if
you can get hold of two approximately-equal >batteries, a wooden shelf
and a concrete floor. :-) > >Andrew C. Green                   (312)
853-8331 >Datalogics, Inc. >101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet:
acg@dlogics.com >Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282 > > >
  Absolutely correct. Because I'm short on storage space I use the floor
space under my workbench in the garage.  Simply by using 2 short pieces
of 2x4 under the battery will be adequate insulation.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:51:32 -0400
Subject: Swapping bodyparts.....   Some questions....

In a message dated 96-11-27 17:47:32 EST, you write:

<< 80's Cutlass' and 80's Regal's doors were interchangeable.  Grand
Prix's
 and Monte Carlo's doors were not interchangeable with the Cutlass
doors.
 Maybe this helps some!

 Oh, when I say 80's I mean '81 to '87, other years may be different.
 This info was from a parts manual at a local junkyard, so the info
"should"
 be correct.
  >>

That's what I thought to be correct about most of the body parts from
this time persiod, for at least the cutlasses, but didn't figure in the
regals, though it makes sense, they were alot alike.  You're right also,
there was a big design change, but looking at my manual for the Cutlass,
the '79's looked somewhat similar, but the front end is different, so
maybe the doors might interchange, but the front nose piece and fender
would be a different story, as far as I can tell.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:09:12 -0400
Subject: Duds

Sorry about any duds that might have come across.  Either my
ISP or Sprint-less seemed to be bit-barfing this afternoon.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:20:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

Andrew C. Green wrote:

> Actually, on a 1986 Cutlass Supreme I rented once back then, there
> was a little LED installed _in_ the split rocker light switch which
> gave just enough light to find the rocker in the dark. My '82 Supreme
> did not have that. Definitely see if you can find that later one (just
> look for a Cutlass with a high-mount brake light on the rear shelf).
> It may have had a slightly different wiring harness, though, since the
> LED would only be on when the ignition was on.

An LED in the split rocker light switch???  My '86 Supreme does not have
this...  Perhaps the LED was added mid-year (assuming my car was
manufactured early on).  I guess my point is you can't count on an '86
having this type of switch.

Maybe all the '87s have it though...  Speaking of '87s, who likes the
'modernization' Olds did to the header panel in that year?

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Dax Ordze <ordzed@uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 20:43:02 -0400
Subject: Front bumper, 72 cutlass

I need a front bumper for my 72 Cutlass.  Cheap, but in good shape is
what I want, but will take anything. Anyone know where I can get one?
- --


Dax Ordze			'72 Cutlass
ordzed@uvic.ca
BC, Canada

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 20:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

I like the "modernized" header panel!
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Ryan Hehn wrote:

> Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> > Actually, on a 1986 Cutlass Supreme I rented once back then, there
> > was a little LED installed _in_ the split rocker light switch which
> > gave just enough light to find the rocker in the dark. My '82
Supreme > > did not have that. Definitely see if you can find that later
one (just > > look for a Cutlass with a high-mount brake light on the
rear shelf). > > It may have had a slightly different wiring harness,
though, since the > > LED would only be on when the ignition was on. > >
An LED in the split rocker light switch???  My '86 Supreme does not have >
this...  Perhaps the LED was added mid-year (assuming my car was >
manufactured early on).  I guess my point is you can't count on an '86 >
having this type of switch. > > Maybe all the '87s have it though...
Speaking of '87s, who likes the > 'modernization' Olds did to the header
panel in that year? > > Ryan Hehn > ryanh@docker.com > > >

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:59:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Swapping bodyparts..... Some questions....

According to the same manual, the doors between '79 and the post '80
cars are not interchangeable.  I don't know what the differences are,
but perhaps they are a little bit longer?  I've noticed that some
people on the list, particulaly those who own some of the older A body
cars, have a heck of a hard time identifying the various years of 80's
Cutlasses.  I hope that this little thing that I'm including will help!
There are a couple here that I'm not sure of, corrections would be
greatly appreciated please, no flames, I'm doing this from memory d:-D



Cutlass Identification (sounds serious doesn't it?)  :-)

	Tail Light Differences
'81-'83		'83-'87 ('88 Cutlass Classic)
 --- ---		 -------
|   |   | Center Line	|	|  -  is a chrome "rocket"
|   |   | is a chrome	|	| |X| symbol in the center
|   |   | strip running	|   -	|  -  of the tail light
|   |   | the length of	|  |X|	|
|   |   | the tail light|   -	|
|   |   |		|	|
|   |   |		|      	|
 --- ---		 -------


Grills
 '81 for sure, '82 maybe	
 -------------------
|---|---|---|---|---|  	widely spaced rectangular
|---|---|---|---|---|	criss-cross pattern
|---|---|---|---|---|	the chrome strips
|---|---|---|---|---|	were thick		
|---|---|---|---|---|		
|---|---|---|---|---|		
 -------------------

 '83
 -------------------
|-------------------|  Fairly thick 		
|-------------------|  horizontal chrome	
|-------------------|  strips
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
 -------------------

'84
 -------------------
| | | | | | | | | | | Fairly thick and wide spaced
| | | | | | | | | | | vertical chrome strips.  Sort
| | | | | | | | | | | of reverse of '83
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
 -------------------

'85 '86 (I'm not sure on this one)
 -------------------
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| Less widely spaced, and perfectly
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| square as opposed to rectangles in
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| the '81 pattern.  criss-cross
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| pattern
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
 -------------------

'87 ('88 Cutlass Supreme Classic only)  (for sure)
 -------------------
|||||||||||||||||||||  Narrow and closely spaced
|||||||||||||||||||||  vertical chrome strips. IMHO
|||||||||||||||||||||  this is the nicest looking of
|||||||||||||||||||||  the 80's Cutlass grills.
|||||||||||||||||||||  The header panel was also changed
|||||||||||||||||||||  to a more streamlined design this year.
 -------------------

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Clayton Pierce

'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (with '81 grills) (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (with no grills) (350 4bbl. ? miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)


n Wed, 27 Nov 1996 CRuper1@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-27 17:47:32 EST, you write:
>
> << 80's Cutlass' and 80's Regal's doors were interchangeable.  Grand
Prix's >  and Monte Carlo's doors were not interchangeable with the
Cutlass doors. >  Maybe this helps some! > >  Oh, when I say 80's I
mean '81 to '87, other years may be different. >  This info was from a
parts manual at a local junkyard, so the info "should" >  be correct. >
>> > > That's what I thought to be correct about most of the body parts
from this > time persiod, for at least the cutlasses, but didn't figure
in the regals, > though it makes sense, they were alot alike.  You're
right also, there was a > big design change, but looking at my manual
for the Cutlass, the '79's looked > somewhat similar, but the front end
is different, so maybe the doors might > interchange, but the front nose
piece and fender would be a different story, > as far as I can tell. > >
Chris Ruper > >

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:03:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

At 07:20 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>An LED in the split rocker light switch???  My '86 Supreme does not
have >this...  Perhaps the LED was added mid-year (assuming my car was
>manufactured early on).  I guess my point is you can't count on an '86
>having this type of switch. > >Maybe all the '87s have it though...
(snip) > >Ryan Hehn >ryanh@docker.com >

My '87 Ciera has a little blue LED on the light switch that stays on all
of the time.  I think it's the same kind of rocker switch that everybody
is talking about.  The top half is divided into two, one half for the
parking lights, one half for the headlights, and the bottom half is for
off.  The LED must have come standard on the 87's then.

Wow, my Ciera shares some parts with Supreme's, I feel so privleged :)

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88 Royale

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:20:31 -0400
Subject: G-Body body mounts & frame braces

I finally found some information on the G-Body body mounts.  Below is a
list of what came from the factory.  According to manuals, all
positions have upper cushion.  #5 position has no bolt, other positions
have cushion or washer:

Bottom      Sedan      Sedan     Coupe    Coupe
 Mount       V-6        V-8       V-6      V-8
- -----------------------------------------------
   2       Cushion    Cushion   Cushion  Cushion
   3       Cushion    Washer    Washer   Washer
   4       Washer     Cushion   Cushion  Washer
   5        None       None      None     None
   6       Cushion    Cushion   Washer   Cushion
   7       Cushion    Cushion   Cushion  Cushion

Part #'s for body mounts (Oldsmobile):
Verified at dealer today 11/27

 Mount          Upper         Lower
Location       Cushion       Cushion
- ------------------------------------
   2           356561        457915
   3           330942        457915
   4           348080        457915
   5           556755         None
   6           330951        377801
   7         25500592        377801

Bolts - M10x1.5x80 - grade 10.9 - 12337833

Front frame braces:
Left Hand -  472169
Right Hand - 472170
Dealer list price - $10.85

I have not been able to find part number for rear seat frame braces.  I
spent quite a while searching part system and cannot locate.  Can
anyone help?

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:34:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... (Steering Wheel)

At 05:23 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>I'm reminded of the old Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner cartoons where Wile
 >>E. gets a bright idea, runs offscreen, we hear a ton of banging,
hammering, >>sawing, etc., and seconds later he re-emerges with some
hodge-podge of >>parts he's hastily assembled into a Road-Runner
Catcher (pat.pend.) which >>of course will not only collapse on top of
him, but also somehow propel >>him off a cliff. >> > > I believe this
was the origin of that JATO story too.  ;) > > > >Todd Hall
>mailto:thall@en.com >Cleveland, OH >1972
4-4-2 > > AS I recall I did use them from time to time.

Wile E. Coyote
Hagis Flebagus

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:24:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Condenser/Capacitor/RF Suppressor

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
>
> Does anybody know which terminal it should be hooked up to?  Can any
> damage occur to the RF Suppressor by having it hooked up to the wrong
> terminal?  Thanks in advance.

Doesn't really matter.  The idea behind these guys is they short
*hi-frequency* noise to ground.  Since the car is DC and, even in the
ignition circuits relatively low frequencey, these noise suppressors (or
 "bypass capacitors") have no effect upon the operation of the motor.
You can one up to each terminal for all practical purposes.  Whatever
gives you the best noise supression...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:38:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete

At 05:28 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>So it's not anything special about concrete, any cold-temperature
>>surface will work.
>
>Well, yes, the point being that the ground can become colder than
>the air, thus chilling anything sitting on it to a temperature
>colder than that of the surrounding air, at which point condensation
>starts to form.
>
>You could test for the same effect with two pieces of bare metal.
>Put one on the ground, the other on a shelf in the same location,
>and see which one rusts faster.
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>
>
I tried that, and the sample Gilette blue blade on the floor definitely
rusted faster than the sample GE turbine blade on the shelf.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:33:32 -0400
Subject: Re:

Edison 3 wrote:

Mike,

We can tell what's on your mind!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:31:53 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 05:23 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
>> "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them
>> direct drive, which is ususual ...
>> The reason they turn the Olds upside-down is to get the crank/prop
>> hub higher off of the ground.
>
>What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
>I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
>rings, and other things would be problems.  Then again I imagine any
>auto to aircraft engine conversion would require some major work in
>these areas since the aircraft doesn't always fly level...
>
>I'm thinking it would be fun to install an engine upsiddown in
>a show car and tell people it was a factory option for high
>altitudes or something like that... :)  It'd still be fun even
>if you didn't BS people, just to see the look on their face when
>you pop the hood.
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products
Division >tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications
Corporation > > A Liquid cooled engine is not usually the power plant of
choice, with the obvious exceptions of the V12s discussed yesterday, in
an airplane application.  They much prefer air cooling in this
application, and with recips only considered for the moment.

The only real problems associated with any engine mounting position
relates to the carb. float and oil drainage locations.  The carb must be
level to operate, and the oil must drain back into the "oilpan" to be
recirculated, everything else is where you place the bolt holes to hold
it on.  And if it doesn't ahve a carb. one of those two problems is a
relatively simple rix.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:36:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

At 05:23 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> There were two dragsters built, and given some play in the hot rod
>> mags of the 50's/60's, that were evolved around the Allison V1710.
>>
>> One was called Alsetta (sp.) and was an Isetta with an Allison
>> installed.
>
>The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
>was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one refrigerator-style
>door in the front).  I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower
>engine in there without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the
>wrong "Isetta".  So what was the "right" Isetta?  Where can I see one?
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products
Division >tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications
Corporation > > > No, Sir;  that is exactly the RIGHT Isetta.  They
dropped an Allison in (or maybe on) I don't remember many details after
25 years, and called it the Alsetta.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:52:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

At 12:54 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>>
>> > There were two dragsters built, and given some play in the hot rod
>> > mags of the 50's/60's, that were evolved around the Allison V1710.
>> >
>> > One was called Alsetta (sp.) and was an Isetta with an Allison
>> > installed.
>>
>> The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
>> was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one
refrigerator-style >> door in the front).  I can't imagine anything
larger than a lawnmower >> engine in there without a major body chagne,
so I assume this is the >> wrong "Isetta".  So what was the "right"
Isetta?  Where can I see one? >> >> - Travis and the 69 olds 98
convertible aka "Tiny" >> > >Travis, > >My mother
& stepfather had an Isetta as you describe when I had just >obtained my
drivers license.  Anything bigger than an Olds wiper motor >would have
seriously overstressed the whole thing.  That was a wild ride >even at
45.  I don't think it went any faster (at least this 16 year-old
>coundn't make it happen). It had a 3-speed shifter on the left side
>panel (the door is to the front) & a combination starter/generator.
>That starter/generator did the car in when it failed.  The cost of
>repairs was beyond the cost of a car (not an Isetta) & so it "vanished"
>in the night. > >Bill Culp >Decatur, Alabama > > I think you should
have pulled the optional Allison, is so equipped, and put it away for
future use.

The Wiz,

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 20:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

Hmmmm
Sounds like a new addition for my '84 :-)

Clayton Pierce

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Brian Cizas wrote:

> At 07:20 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >An LED in the split rocker light switch???  My '86 Supreme does not
have > >this...  Perhaps the LED was added mid-year (assuming my car was >
>manufactured early on).  I guess my point is you can't count on an '86 >
>having this type of switch. > > > >Maybe all the '87s have it
though...  (snip) > > > >Ryan Hehn > >ryanh@docker.com > > > > My '87
Ciera has a little blue LED on the light switch that stays on all of >
the time.  I think it's the same kind of rocker switch that everybody is >
talking about.  The top half is divided into two, one half for the
parking > lights, one half for the headlights, and the bottom half is
for off.  The > LED must have come standard on the 87's then. > > Wow,
my Ciera shares some parts with Supreme's, I feel so privleged :) > >
Brian Cizas > 1963 Olds Cutlass F85 > 1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera > 1981
Olds Delta 88 Royale > > >

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:20:35 -0400
Subject: GM Rear Axles

I apologize if I was a little short with Mr. Porter.  The 4T65-E startup
is very stressful right now.  I hope that the transmission is better
than previous new transmission releases.  The area to watch is the chain
area.  To reduce noise, GM went to a two chains out of phase by 1/2
tooth instead of 1 chain.  The noise from each chain cancels each other
out. The new sprockets are made out of powdered metal instead of cast
iron.
     The rear axle codes listed in the table are from Oldsmobile and
Buick service manuals.  There might be other codes manufactured
depending on the plant the axle was made at and the year.
     I don't think the aluminum drums are worth it.  They are a
composite drum. They are aluminum with a cast iron insert for braking
surface.  I don't think that they would hold up to high stress braking.
     B-Bodies are RWD full size cars, i.e. Caprice, Impala, Bonneville,
88, LeSabre. Yes, a B-body carrier should fit.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:47:50 -0400
Subject: Re: oddball mods :0 (was Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re:
Fastest Olds **non-olds content**))

At 05:28 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all, I guess that I'm just in a mood tonight!
>
>What are the most oddball mods to an oldsmobile that you can think of!
>(short of putting a 36hp VW motor in a Delta 88).  Impossible, or not,
I >just want to hear what you think.  Here are my entries: > >1st
generation Toro motor/transaxle swapped into a late 80's FWD Delta 88.
>or >Get the largest 98/88/whatever you can find and (using airplane
parts if >you have to) just make sure that when you are done, there is
sh*t stickup >up out of the hood!  d:-b > >Peace, Goodwill, and Happy
Oldsmobilling, >zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu >Clayton Pierce > > Thank you
very much, I have one of those!

In the early days of El Toro one exterprising sole decided that if one
engine was good, two would be better.  He removed the power unit, locked
the steering aspects into straight ahead, and put it in the trunk.  Went
like hell.  You guys should start collecting the old hot rod magazines,
they can be a real kick.

The downside of the twini-toro, no place for the spare.

The Wiz,

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:55:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

At 09:11 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>>
>> The only automobile I can recall named "Isetta" came from BMW and
>> was barely larger than a refrigerator (and just one
refrigerator-style >> door in the front). > >That's the guy.  Built by
the motorcycle part of BMW.  Had four wheels >but because the rear
wheels were closer than something like 12" it was >classed as a
motorcycle. > >> I can't imagine anything larger than a lawnmower engine
in there >> without a major body chagne, so I assume this is the wrong
"Isetta". > >Not if you just glue the "pod" to the motor.  Sounds like
something >looney old Art Arfons's would do. > >The 66 Toro and Mike > >
>-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > > I head Arfons
was particularly partial to JATO boost on his.

Anon.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:43:50 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 06:05 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>> The aluminum Olds 215 is popular...turn them upside-down and run
them >>> direct drive > >>What kind of nastyness do you run into turning
an engine upsidedown? >>I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly
coolant flow, piston >>rings, and other things would be problems. > >I
thought the same things.  What about carburation?  Would the carb and
>intake mount on the now underside of the engine?  Do they use
carburators on >planes?  Where would you put the oil pump and pan?  How
would you keep the >combustion chambers from filling with oil? > >The
mind boggles... > >I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted
215's. > > >-- >Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme >Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@gate.net > So Would I,

The Wiz,

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:05:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

Brian Cizas wrote:
>
> My '87 Ciera has a little blue LED...

Blue?  Really?  I gonna have to see one of these.
No flame, I just haven't seen a blue LED

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:19:53 -0400
Subject: Re:

Right, either he wants us to "read" his mind,
or that darn '66 Toro is playing games with us again :-)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> Edison 3 wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> We can tell what's on your mind!
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
>
>

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:16:16 -0400
Subject: Re: oddball mods :0 (was Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re:
Fastest Olds **non-olds content**))

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, C.R.F. wrote:

> At 05:28 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hi all, I guess that I'm just in a mood tonight!
> >
> >What are the most oddball mods to an oldsmobile that you can think
of! > >(short of putting a 36hp VW motor in a Delta 88).  Impossible, or
not, I > >just want to hear what you think.  Here are my entries: > > >
>1st generation Toro motor/transaxle swapped into a late 80's FWD Delta
88. > >or > >Get the largest 98/88/whatever you can find and (using
airplane parts if > >you have to) just make sure that when you are
done, there is sh*t stickup > >up out of the hood!  d:-b > > > >Peace,
Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling, > >zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu >
>Clayton Pierce > > > > > Thank you very much, I have one of those! > >
In the early days of El Toro one exterprising sole decided that if one >
engine was good, two would be better.  He removed the power unit, locked
the > steering aspects into straight ahead, and put it in the trunk.
Went like > hell.  You guys should start collecting the old hot rod
magazines, they can > be a real kick. > > The downside of the
twini-toro, no place for the spare. > > The Wiz, > >


I actually saw a VW microbus with an OLDS (not Buick) 231 V-6 in it.

Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:10:14 -0400
Subject: Spark plug recommendations

Hi Gang,

I've just gotten my 455 back from the machine shop and will be
installing it this weekend.  I am installing an HEI distributor and an
MSD 6AL ignition box.  What spark plugs (and what gap) would you
recommend?


Thanks,
Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:16:37 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Rear Axles

At 09:20 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I apologize if I was a little short with Mr. Porter.  The 4T65-E
startup is >very stressful right now.  I hope that the transmission is
better than >previous new transmission releases.  The area to watch is
the chain area.  To >reduce noise, GM went to a two chains out of phase
by 1/2 tooth instead of >1 chain.  The noise from each chain cancels
each other out. The new sprockets >are made out of powdered metal
instead of cast iron. >     The rear axle codes listed in the table are
from Oldsmobile and Buick >service manuals.  There might be other codes
manufactured depending >on the plant the axle was made at and the year. >
I don't think the aluminum drums are worth it.  They are a composite
drum. >They are aluminum with a cast iron insert for braking surface.  I
don't think that >they would hold up to high stress braking. >
B-Bodies are RWD full size cars, i.e. Caprice, Impala, Bonneville, 88,
LeSabre. >Yes, a B-body carrier should fit. > >
--------------------------- >Steve Ochs                    |
| >Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  | >GM
Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  | >Transmission
Division         |  #         #   # #   #  | >(4T60/65-E)
|  #   ####  #    #    #  | >                              |   #    #
#         #  | >'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #
| >'87 Grand National            |                         | >'76
Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  | >
--------------------------- > Buick used an aluminum/c.i. composite drum
for a lot of years with exceptional results.  It was a finned aluminum
affair ca. 1960, and it took good disc's to beat it.

The Wiz,

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:33:19 -0400
Subject: Flying Olds (was: upsidedown engines?)

Well the oil would certainly have a hard time draining back into the pan
 when you cut the motor off...

          I would suspect that they would just use a dry sump oiling
          system with an external tank.  Only difference would be that
the
          "sump" would be at the valve...er, rocker arm covers.  Sure
          would cut down on crankshaft windage, tho.

...I'd think that the coolant would be o-kay as long as you kept if
full...

          Just be careful of those pesky air bubbles.  Sort of like the
          reverse flow system used on the LT1 (...er, 4...er, 5... :-)).

 The water pump would do all of the work anyway!  I'd say that the motor
 would "have to" be EFI though.  Upside down carburretor would not be
good!

          Updraft aviation carbs are quite common, actually.


On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:

> > The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
> > "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them
> > direct drive, which is ususual ...

          Ironically, when Olds introduced the 330 ci "new generation"
          V-8 in 1964, they converted one for aviation use and mounted
          it in a small aircraft for publicity (right-side up,
          however).

          An ad in the Feb 64 issue of Motor Trend showed a Jetstar 88
          4 dr hardtop motoring along what appears to be a runway while
          the OLDSMOBILE JETFIRE ROCKET V-8-emblazoned aircraft flies
          by overhead.  The text reads:

          OLDSMOBILE JETFIRE ROCKET V-8 TAKES TO THE AIR!

          So powerful...so reliable...so lightweight it powered a
          private plane with ease!

          Oldsmobile chalked up another record in Rocket Engine history
          when its new 330 cubic-inch Jetfire Rocket V-8 successfully
          powered a full-sized airplane at Capital City Airport,
          Lansing, Mich., recently.

          Another "First" for Olds!

          Modified slightly to meet FAA requirements, this lightweight
          cast iron V-8 -- newest Olds Rocket -- actually put a plane
          into flight.  In five hours of air tests, the Jetfire Rocket
          V-8 powered the husky aircraft in an amazing exhibition of
          performance and built-in reliability, attaining a
          rate-of-climb of 1,000 feet a minute!

          While Olds has no intention of adapting automotive engines to
          aircraft use, the flight proves the Jetfire Rocket's
          superiority under the most demanding conditions...


          The ad also features a picture of the plane with the cowling
          removed and the engine clearly visible.  It appears that the
          stock air cleaner was used.  In fact, the engine looks
          decptively stock, except for that huge propeller hanging off
          the front!  Radiators appear to be mounted sideways on either
          side of the engine.

> ...I'm thinking it would be fun to install an engine upsiddown in
> a show car and tell people it was a factory option for high
> altitudes or something like that... :)


          That driveshaft passing through the passenger compartment at
          shoulder height should really get their attention!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:38:46 -0400
Subject: Q-jets (was: Resto Tips ..... (Steering Wheel))

...I would have done it myself, but I've been told numerous times NEVER
to screw with a q-jet (or quadrajunk depending on whether or not yours
is running) because if you don't know what your doing, stuff will fly
out at you?  Any truth to this?

          Sounds like another urban myth - started by the carb
rebuilding
          houses!

If not, I've got 2 more to play with!

          Go for it!  Get yourself a copy of Doug Roe's Rochester
          Carburetors book first, however.  The book not only tells you
how
          to rebuild and modify the carb, but it also details how the
          various circuits in the carb work.  This better understanding
of
          the theory is of great benefit when troubleshooting.


          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:44:05 -0400
Subject: RH remote mirror

Our old '78 Grand Lemans had dual remote sport mirrors that were body
colored. The passenger side one was controlled by a knob on the dash
near the heater controls. The thing never worked even when new... you
could play with the knob and the mirror would sort of move, but never
in any kind of coordinated way. Complaints to the dealer were met with
a response of, "oh, they're all like that... those things just don't
work right". Don't know if that was just dealer doublespeak or factual.

     I picked up a remote rh mirror brand new in the box at a swap meet
may
     years ago.  It was the body-colored style (same as the 71-up sport
     mirrors - in fact it was slated to go on the 71 I had at the time).

     It also didn't work properly...they really are all like that!
     Actually, it appears that the cables are too loose.  Unfortunately,

     they are swaged in place, making adjustment impossible.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30



------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:10:02 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Alsetta/Isetta ?


     Many years ago, in one of the Petersen Publishing Street Machines
     books, there was a feature on an Isetta into which the owner had
     swapped the drivetrain from a Corvair!  He had to fabricate a
     fiberglass cover for the new, somewhat larger engine (did a nice
job,
     too).  The attached story noted that this swap was the equivalent
of
     "...taking the left over Corvair and swaping in a Saturn 5
booster..."

     Sounds like next year's Darwin Award winner :-)

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:43:21 -0400
Subject: 66 Toro 425 for sale

All,

Just got a call from a guy who has a 1966 Toronado 425 for sale. Its
complete and ran when it was taken out of the donor at 90K. Its
currently on a motor stand in his garage.

He lives is Sturtavent (about 20 miles south of Milwaukee).

Asking $300

Anyone interested can e-mail me privately for his phone number.

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Janice Lott <jlott@island.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:28:39 -0400
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile jlott@island.net

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:21:22 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: oddball mods :0


I actually saw a VW microbus with an OLDS (not Buick) 231 V-6 in it.

Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

     Don't know how to break this to you, Clayton, but the Olds 231 V-6
     _is_ the Buick 231 (aka 3.8 liter) V-6.  Sorry.

     GM built two different 3.8 liter, 90 degree V-6s, the venerable
Buick
     unit (available in 198 ci, 225 ci, 231 ci/3.8 liter, and 4.1 liter
     displacements) and the Chevy unit (229 ci/3.8 liter and the current

     4.3 liter truck engine).  The Buick is easily identified by its
     front-mounted distributor (unless it is the later distributorless
     ignition version), while the Chevy uses the rear distributor.

     Kennedy Engineering Products (KEP) builds (are they still in
     business?) VW transaxle adapters for the Buick V-6 as well as for a

     number of other engines, including the aluminum 215 V-8, the old
     European Ford 2.8 liter V-6, and various inline 4 cylinder motors.

     Unfortunately, they missed the boat on the Isetta engine swap
market.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:25:46 -0400
Subject: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

Buick used an aluminum/c.i. composite drum for a lot of years with
exceptional results.  It was a finned aluminum affair ca. 1960, and it
took good disc's to beat it.

The Wiz,


     Weren't the 8-lug Pontiac wheels from the early 60s also based on
     finned aluminum drums with cast iron inserts?  Don't know how well
     they worked, but they sure looked cool.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:03:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

At 01:05 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Blue?  Really?  I gonna have to see one of these.
>No flame, I just haven't seen a blue LED
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>

Well, I'm not sure it's an LED, but it's blue.  I guess there could be a
small light in the switch and the film could be blue, but you would
think that if they were going to put a light in there, they might as
well light up the whole switch.  Besides, it can't be a light because
it's on whenever the ignition is on and after 10 years it would have
definitely burnt out.

I just hope that whatever it is, it doesn't start leaking all over the
place like those other leaking lights.  A blue leaking light could cause
a huge mess :)

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88 Royale

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:14:35 -0400
Subject: Re: oddball mods :0 (was Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re:
Fastest Olds **non-olds content**))

At 09:16 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I actually saw a VW microbus with an OLDS (not Buick) 231 V-6 in it.
>
>Clayton Pierce
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
>

I always thought that Buick was the only one that made a 231 V-6.  My
'81 Delta has this ever-so-powerful engine and it's made by Buick.

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88 Royale

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 19:25:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
>
> Buick used an aluminum/c.i. composite drum for a lot of years with
> exceptional results.  It was a finned aluminum affair ca. 1960, and it
took > good disc's to beat it. > > The Wiz, > > >      Weren't the
8-lug Pontiac wheels from the early 60s also based on >      finned
aluminum drums with cast iron inserts?  Don't know how well >      they
worked, but they sure looked cool. > >      Joe Padavano >

Joe,

I have a '63 Grand Prix w/finned alluminum drums that bolt separately to
steel rims w/8 lugs & they work ok.  Nothing special. I love the looks
though I'm not sure what I do when the drums wear beyond turning (I have
an extra few as spares).  My '70 Buick GS came w/aluminum drums on
front.  They worked fine.  I took them off & replaced them w/discs.
Anyone need a set?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #384
********************************
 
