To:	Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US
cc:	 
From:	gbbea000 @ mail.cycor.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/24/96 06:03:38 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #336


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 19 October 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 336


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:15:57 -0300
Subject: Re:More Info  Was VIN Decode

     Copied the tag on my 71 442, it look's as follows,

             BODY BY FISHER
ST  71    34487LAN305528  BDY
TR  949            11 A   PNT
    02C              B85


     If anyone can decode any or all of this I would be extremely
greatful. Thanks,

          Gerald Gibson
          gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:20:35 -0300
Subject: RE: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

At 05:59 PM 10/18/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Lets talk I got one to go faster than that.
>
>----------
>From: 	Tucker@aol.com[SMTP:Tucker@aol.com]
>Sent: 	Friday, October 18, 1996 12:05 AM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"
>
>Well let me tell you when you get your stock anything olds to go a
12.68 >through the exhaust with G-78-14 tires than we'll talk until then
eat shit > > > > >Attachment Converted: d:\eudora~1\attach\REIt'sNO >


Heeeee's Baaaack
  __   _____ ____    ______
 / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|
| '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \
| (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
 \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
  ____                             _   _ _     _
 / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
| |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
| |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
 \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|





------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:32:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

Nitrous!!
Scott Mullen
'70 442
 ----------
From: Chris Sparks
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National
Date: Friday, October 18, 1996 1:53PM


oldsmobile-owner wrote:

>      I think that a _bone stock_ GN will only do about 15.5-16.5 in
the >      quarter.  With a little tweaking consisting of an afternoon's
worth of >      mods and about $500 it'll run 12-13's easy. > >      If
the one that raced you was 100% stock, then yes it's very possible

>      you would have blown him away.

What could I do, with $500 say, to my 68 442 to make it go 12-13 easy...

Chris

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:36:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

>
>What could I do, with $500 say, to my 68 442 to make it go 12-13
easy...

     If it was a ford, you could buy a used plasma cutter and blast off
3000 pounds, (then go to the 1/8 track!)  ... :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:36:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message

>Which station is he on?  KOJM or KQPX?  (I think those are the FM
>call letters)
     Yup, and he's on both, I think.  He does prerecorded newscasts that
air on both, and he announces on KPQX. > >PS...We'll have to get him an
Oldsmobile to drive.  Maybe a '70 >Ninety-Eight with the station's
calls on the side? <g> >

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:36:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

>Wow.  Some ideas for my wagon just popped into my mind.
>
>But what do you mean airbags?  Do you mean additional support air lift
bags?

     Yes, exactly.  The thing ~can't~ powerbrake.  It drags the front
tires!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:36:16 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

>>Given the fact that he has a AOL account, it wouldn't
>>be that tough to stuff his mailbox ...daily.   ;)

     I've searched and fingerred, with no luck finding that e-mail
registerred.  I haven't tried ~actually~ mailing anything, so I don't
know if it's valid or not.  I know some of the compuserve addresses were
unusual in trying to mail to them, is aol goofy too?  It might be fun to
foreward all of his posts to AOL feedback, and see if they want to dump
him off the net completely due to FCC and censorship, etc....  Fun
thought, at least.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:46:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> >Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN.
> >An 86 or 87 Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442,
> >exception is a very hot and humid day (turbo not as effective).
>
> You might even come across a GNX sometime. 1 of, what, 500? made,
> with a supercharger instead of a turbo. Most likely will be black,
> looks like a GN at first glance save for some rather substantial,
> functional, body-colored air dumps in the front fenders which look
> like oversized versions of the usual Buick Ventiport trim. There's
> one at the Buick dealer in Glenview, IL; they've been trying to sell
> it for what seems like _years_ now for $35K or something like that...
>
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
Huh???

All GNX's were turbo charged, they also came with a neat rearend cover
that connects to a "ladder bar", sort of how the IROC's are setup, I
have a couple of articles on them and have seen a few. There was an
excellant road test on one going against a Callaway Corvette in Popular
Mechanics back in late '86 early '87.

The GNX's are like the Mustang Cobra's basically hopped up versions of
the standard GN and 5.0 models. the best part is you can make your GN
or 5.0 perform better than the GNX's and Cobra's without investing a
whole ton of dough(as long as you do the work yourself).

I think a stock GN and a 68 442 would be a pretty even match on street
tires with stock exhaust. However every GN I have seen at the track with
 sticky tires has run in the 13's and a whole bunch of them are in the
12's.

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:55:37 -0300
Subject: Re: More VIN info please

gibson@webgate.net wrote:
>
>      Thanks again to all who responded and helped with Web Pages and
VIN help. > Is there any way to find out original paint colour, option
package, > displacement, etc?  I already knw most of it(I think) but I'd
like to find out > everything about it.  As always, any help is greatly
appreciated.  BTW, what is > RIN on the ownership? > >
Gerald Gibson >              gibson@webgate.netPop the hood, and behind
the master cylinder you'll find a plate(about 4" x 2") that should start
with "ST71 33487....."  below that line on the left is a "TR" line, the
top 4 numbers are the time built code, the 3 below is the trim combo
code. On the right there is a 2 digit code, a space, and another 2 digit
code followed by "PNT".  The first is the lower body color, and the
second is the upper body or fabric color.  Let us know the codes and
we'll supply the answers.

Kurt
fellow '71 442

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:59:32 -0300
Subject: Re: More VIN info please Re:Kurt

     Kurt,

     Thanks for the help, I already sent the Body By Fisher plate in to
the list.In addition, just out of curiousity, have you ever 1/4 it?  If
so what was the weight?  Thanks again.

              Gerald Gibson
              gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:03:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, buehner wrote:

>
> >
> >What could I do, with $500 say, to my 68 442 to make it go 12-13
easy... > >      If it was a ford, you could buy a used plasma cutter
and blast off 3000 > pounds, (then go to the 1/8 track!)  ... :)

Yah, but if I did that my car would only weigh 180lbs....:) Actually its
 much easier to make a 5.0 run 13's than you'd think (on a 1/4 mile
track)..;)~

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:58:55 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: New Oldsmobile Symbol

On 18 Oct 96 at 18:13, MR DREW A DURIGAN wrote:

> building <<undistinguished crap. ....
> Is it just me, or do you also believe the Cutlass Calais was a much
> better-looking and better-performing car than the "Acheesa" that
> succeeded it?  Damn, they're ugly...especially the 4-door versions!

Amen!  Did you ever notice the Grand Am seemed to evolve (like other
cars) instead of just restart even uglier?

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 Calais

------------------------------

From: Rapid_Ron_L@prodigy.com (MR RONALD C LASKA)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:41:37 -0300
Subject: use subj in subject

Please, those of you that send messages to the mailing list with a
title of only "internet message" (maybe a default of the major domo
when no subject is used by the sender), USE A SUBJECT IN YOUR
MESSAGES.  With about 75 messages a day from this list, your mail is
less likely to get the attention you may wish, and it just clutters
the mail.

------------------------------

From: BarFace@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:35:45 -0300
Subject: Get Tucker!

buehner wrote:

>      I've searched and fingerred, with no luck finding that e-mail
> registerred.  I haven't tried ~actually~ mailing anything, so I don't
know > if it's valid or not.

Not that I'm an instigator, but I'm rather good at sluething (hacking
some call it).

So if anyone feels the need to unload on this jerk...HAVE AT IT!


Screen Name:	Tucker
Member Name:	TOM TAYLOR
Location:	Jamesburg, NJ USA
Birthdate:	09-17-54
Sex:	Male
Marital Status:	Married
Computers:	  486-33 with evergreen 586-133 upgrade
Hobbies:	Kids,Motorcycles, Fast Oldsmobiles, Drinking, Computer Junkie
Occupation:	"A"  Tech at a Buick Pontiac GMC Truck dealer
Personal Quote:	GO FOR IT So it doesn't pass you by and do it slow so it
lasts longer


You never got this info from me!

An anonymous tipster!!!

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:46:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Get Tucker!

Hey Barface!

Would that be:
Taylor, Thomas J
22 Sherman St
Jamesburg, NJ 08831-1269
Phone: (908)521-0616
Huh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


BarFace@aol.com wrote:
>
> Screen Name:    Tucker
> Member Name:    TOM TAYLOR
> Location:       Jamesburg, NJ USA
> Birthdate:      09-17-54
> Sex:    Male
> Marital Status: Married
> Computers:        486-33 with evergreen 586-133 upgrade
> Hobbies:        Kids,Motorcycles, Fast Oldsmobiles, Drinking, Computer
Junkie > Occupation:     "A"  Tech at a Buick Pontiac GMC Truck dealer >
Personal Quote: GO FOR IT So it doesn't pass you by and do it slow so it >
lasts longer


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:54:51 -0300
Subject: RE: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBD2F.13E04CC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yeah I saw that, oh well looks like we lost a real winner there!! Oh and
I took your advice on the CC thing.

- ----------
From: 	Mike Frederick[SMTP:edison3@cpeq.com]
Sent: 	Friday, October 18, 1996 8:30 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

Chris Urban wrote:
>
> Lets talk I got one to go faster than that.

Hey, Chris,

He's already history.
CC: him at Tucker@aol.com
...about a hundred times!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/






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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBD2F.13E04CC0--

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:15:55 -0300
Subject: Revenge

Boy, you guys, I know who's wrong side not to get on :-). Not that I am
condoning the actions of this jerk!
************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:29:33 -0300
Subject: Re: The EGR and Carb on a 403

> This carb has an Adjustable Part Throttle (APT) power valve, and that
got > screwed up when I disassembled it (and didn't recognize what it
was... :( . > .... > So, yeah, I've got to tune the APT, along with the
power valve spring. And > possibly rejet the carb (the 403 isn't quite
stock anymore...). And perhaps

Hmmm... none of my cars has the APT feature.  I have a carb from a '75
Olds Cutlass with this feature, but have no idea how to adjust.  Since
the APT option is just for emissions purposes (a fine tuning thing), how
about looking for another Q-jet without this feature or perhaps one that
is still intact?

On the other hand, FWIW, one of my manuals states, "If replacement of
the aneroid-metering rod assembly is required, (the) replacement part
will include instructions for adjustment."

I've had success adjusting the factory-metering screw by trial and
error. On my '77 Fleetwood (425 CID), the original power piston spring
was quite stiff.  I found that while cruising above 75 MPH, the carb was
into the power system, and economy suffered.  I replaced this spring
with a slightly softer one, but the car suffered from a lean miss under
some light throttle conditions.  In order to facilitate adjustment of
the metering screw, I punched out a plug on the air horn immediately
above this area, and drilled a hole to permit its removal with a
self-tapping screw.  I then fabricated an adjustment tool from some
sheet metal.  So far, after 1.5 turns counter-clockwise, the part
throttle is more responsive; I averaged 22 mpg Cdn (just over 18 mpg
U.S.) on a 700 mile trip cruising 80-?? MPH.  The transition to power
mode is quite dramatic since the calibration is still quite lean, and
occurs at about half throttle now.  I also improved driveability in a
friend's '77 Custom Cruiser (350) by making about a 3/4 turn
anti-clockwise.  The metering rods are different between those two cars.
The effect of the number of turns of the metering screw depends on the
taper of the rods.

> Again, it's that part-throttle response that I'm looking for (and that
> swapping my 2.41's for 3.42's will help with as well).

If you go with the 3.42's, you'll need an overdrive tranny if you want
to retain any form of highway economy.

> Wishin' I had EFI right now...

Who needs EFI when Q-jets are available!  :)

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:39:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Revenge

Dave Isho wrote:
>
> Boy, you guys, I know who's wrong side not to get on :-).
> Not that I am condoning the actions of this jerk!

It not nice to fool with Mother Nature ...or computer people.

Heh-heh-heh.  ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:55:26 -0300
Subject: Tucker

     I've only been on this list for one day, but isn't everyone getting
a littleout of hand?  This Tucker seems to be a misguided
individual(mildly put) but isn't all this hostility a big waste of time
and effort?  It's been my experience that anyone on the net who behaves
in such a manner usually thrives on any kind of response they get, no
matter what kind.  BTW,  this is only MHO, and this is a great list,
and we shouldn't allow the likes of a Tucker to get us so upset.  My
apologies to those who disagree.

              Gerald Gibson
              gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:59:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Revenge

Folks,

I know it's really tempting to want to stuff the mailbox of
tucker@aol.com, but as list administrator I can't condone it in any way,
 even if you feel it might be deserved. Yeah, he did some things that
would qualify him as a jerk. Yeah, some of you might really want to tell
 him how you feel. But consider this to be an official disclaimer from
the Olds list that we don't condone it and have nothing to do with it
in any way.

Besides, Oldsmobiles are driven by gentlemen and ladies... people who
are above such petty bickering! :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:36:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Revenge

At 09:59 PM 10/18/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>I know it's really tempting to want to stuff the mailbox of
>tucker@aol.com, but as list administrator I can't condone it in any
way, >even if you feel it might be deserved. Yeah, he did some things
that >would qualify him as a jerk. Yeah, some of you might really want
to tell >him how you feel. But consider this to be an official
disclaimer from the >Olds list that we don't condone it and have
nothing to do with it in any >way. > >Besides, Oldsmobiles are driven
by gentlemen and ladies... people who are >above such petty bickering!
:) > >Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova
Scotia, Canada


See what I mean.....
________________
Dave Isho
=================================================================
 ____  ___   ___ _     _                           _
|  _ \( _ )/ ___| |   (_)_ __ ___   ___  _   _ ___(_)_ __   ___
| | | | _ \/\__ \ |   | | '_ ` _ \ / _ \| | | | __| | '_ \ / _ \
| |_| |(_>  <__) ||___| | | | | | | (_) | |_| |__ \ | | | |  __/
|____/\___/\/___/_____|_|_| |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|___/_|_| |_|\___|
 ____                  _
/ ___|  ___ _ ____   _(_) ___  ___
\___ \ / _ \ '__| \ / / |/ __|/ _ \
 ___) |  __/ |   \ V /| | (__|  __/
|____/ \___|_|    \_/ |_|\___|\___|




------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:35:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Tucker

At 09:55 PM 10/18/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     I've only been on this list for one day, but isn't everyone
getting a >littleout of hand?  This Tucker seems to be a misguided
individual(mildly put) >but isn't all this hostility a big waste of
time and effort?  It's been my >experience that anyone on the net who
behaves in such a manner usually thrives >on any kind of response they
get, no matter what kind.  BTW,  this is only MHO, >and this is a great
list, and we shouldn't allow the likes of a Tucker to get us >so upset.
My apologies to those who disagree. > Oh, who's upset, I thought this
was kinda fun!!! Don't worry in the past we've forgotten about it in a
day or so. Or when Greg says enough and post the list rules again :-)
________________ Dave Isho
=================================================================
 ____  ___   ___ _     _                           _
|  _ \( _ )/ ___| |   (_)_ __ ___   ___  _   _ ___(_)_ __   ___
| | | | _ \/\__ \ |   | | '_ ` _ \ / _ \| | | | __| | '_ \ / _ \
| |_| |(_>  <__) ||___| | | | | | | (_) | |_| |__ \ | | | |  __/
|____/\___/\/___/_____|_|_| |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|___/_|_| |_|\___|
 ____                  _
/ ___|  ___ _ ____   _(_) ___  ___
\___ \ / _ \ '__| \ / / |/ __|/ _ \
 ___) |  __/ |   \ V /| | (__|  __/
|____/ \___|_|    \_/ |_|\___|\___|




------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:43:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile (med. length)

In a message dated 96-10-18 13:26:53 EDT, you write:

> I was corresponding to a fellow list member and somehow my response
ended up >  on the list.  I am a member of John Rocks staff at
Oldsmobile's home office. >  As I said in my last note to the other
member.  I am a member of John Rocks >  staff and am located at
Oldsmobiles Home office.

Deja Vu!!!  If I were John Rock (or whoever will be taking his place) I
would be embarrased to have someone with these communication skills
representing Oldsmobile to possible consumers.  Examples like this do
not speak very highly of Olds.

>   "If  the group has questions, I would be happy to try and answer
them but >  I am not a wizard with a crystal ball that can tell the
future of Olds and >  prefer not to be a 'punching bag'."

Oh, this is nice.  In all my years of working with the public, I learned
early on that you never talk back to a customer.  This is real cute.
Doesn't it make you want to run right out and buy a new Olds?

If there's more employees with capabilities/attitudes like this then it
looks like Olds isn't long for this world.  No crystal ball, but I'm
seeing the future and it isn't pretty.

Paul
feeling less guilty about buying the Monte

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:43:52 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

In a message dated 96-10-18 18:24:19 EDT, you write:

> ST  71    34487

1971 442 Hardtop Coupe

> LAN305528  BDY

Built in Lansing, 305528 is the sequence number for the body

>  TR  949

Interior color - Sienna

> 11 A   PNT

Paint code Cameo White with a White vinyl roof

>  02C

Built the third (C) week of February (02)

> B85

Optional Chrome Window-Sill Moldings

I'm wondering about the interior color - Is that right?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:43:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: tucker@aol.com

In a message dated 96-10-18 13:52:05 EDT, you write:

> Maybe better yet, is to forward the contents of each message from
>  tucker@aol.com to postmaster@aol.com, maybe CCing to tucker as well.
I >  guess you could also "digest" him to stuff his box! :)

Hey, that's a good idea.  Since I'm on aol as well, maybe I'll take care
of that.

Paul
feeling nasty today

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:43:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Get Tucker!

In a message dated 96-10-18 19:52:04 EDT, you write:

> Would that be:
>  Taylor, Thomas J
>  22 Sherman St
>  Jamesburg, NJ 08831-1269
>  Phone: (908)521-0616

Hang-ups!!!!

Think I need to practice my nasty-gram skills

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:47:02 -0300
Subject: The Tucker Incident

     Bar Face and any others I may have given the wrong impression,

     I didn't drop a line to judge anyone's behaviour,  I merely wanted
to state my opinion, being that this person doesn't deserve so much
attention.  There are always going to be "Tucker's" on the net and
unfortunately not even clogging thier mailboxes will deter the next one
and so on.
     I did however find it interesting that he acted in such a manner
when his age is supposed to be in the forties(42 if I remember
correctly).  I'm wondering if he may have a son or daughter who used
his computer.  Just a thought.
     I'm not here to judge anyone, and still think the list and it's
members are great as a whole.  Take care! :.)

       Gerald Gibson
       gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:07:25 -0300
Subject: The One That Got Away

Let's hear your best story about the Oldsmobile that you "coulda,
woulda, shoulda" bought...

Earlier this year, I was up in Charlotte, NC, visiting my girlfriend.
 Happened upon an ad in the paper that caught my eye:

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
27K miles, V-8, original owner, must sell

I called at about 10AM and got an answering machine.  The voice
sounded like that of an elderly gentleman.  Figured the car had
already sold, but left a message anyway.  Like an IDIOT, I then left
the house.  When I got back around 3PM, there was a message on my
machine from the owner.  I called back, but it was too late.  Car had
sold to the first person who had looked at it.  They put money down,
but since the car was less than 2 miles from me, I went to have a
look just in case the deal fell through.

It was indeed a '79 with 27K miles.  Original owners.  It was "her"
car, but she could no longer drive, so they were selling the car.
Perfect shape..not a scratch.  Powder blue w/ white padded 1/2 roof.
Always garaged; not a hint of "rot" on the roof.  260 that was so
clean you could have eaten off of it!  PS/PB/PW/PDL/P
Seats/Cruise/Tilt.  Original AM/FM/8-Track.  Rallye wheels with not
as much as a curb scratch on them (he explained that his wife had
once scraped the curb and scuffed the retainer ring quite badly...but
he went to the DEALER and bought a new one!!)  Of course, all the
paperwork was there...window sticker, bill-of-sale, build sheet
(special-ordered), owner's manual, etc.  The "donut" spare still had
the "dimples" on it...never been used.

Price?  He asked $1,500...and the first guy grabbed it without even
haggling.  "I probably could have gotten a bit more", he said.  Uh
huh.


I cried all the way back to Florida.

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:49:27 -0300
Subject: Re:Isho on Tucker

     Point well taken. :-)

     Gerald Gibson
     gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:56:30 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

     Paul,

     I'm not sure what sienna is or if the interior is original.  The
following is the way the car was when I bought it -

- -bench seat w/ dark brown(maybe chocolate) crushed velvet or velour
interior - -Yellow paint(only primer underneath although the ownership
states white) - -am/fm 8 track - -rear defrost - -console automatic(too
bad) - -power steering - -power brakes(disk/drum - -air conditioning(no
compressor in the car) - -power windows - -tilt steering - -and a few
others I can't remember

    Thanks a whole lot for the help.

          Gerald Gibson
          gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:17:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Blown Head Gaskets compressed

whats the matter with you.  you dont know how to use plain non-vulgar
language when on this mail list.  You probably dont even own an olds
but some Jap scrap.  Listen Bub, If you dont like this email list I will
get you some cheese with your whine.  stay off and stick to irmc lists
that talk dirty to you.  probably a regular guest on peepshow.com.


nice untalking to you (done without profanity)  You just reached the
Southeren Baptist network      (Repent you heathen)

W MACHINES  guess what it means

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:21:47 -0300
Subject: Re:Quad 4's and stats etc.

     With all the mention of Quad 4's I've gottensomewhat curious.  Is
this the engine that was in Grand Am's for awhile?  If so or if not
what all did it come in, what were it's performance numbers, etc?  Does
anyone care to share some info on these.  I'm a big fan of 4's 6's 8's
or any engine that makes a car move, no particulars maker F*rd, Ch*v,
Oldsmobile, D*odge, whatever.  Any stats and info on these would be
much appreciated.

          Gerald Gibson
          gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:26:19 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

>> I think they got a little too caught up in keeping up with the Jones.
>
>Or the Mitsubushis

Hey now...I know it's Japanese, but mine has 90000 miles on it and I
haven't had any problems yet... - -- Dave Paulison                  1969
Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:26:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

In a message dated 96-10-18 12:50:59 EDT, you write:

<< I would sure like to receive one too!!!!

 Chris Sparks
 sparks@aisf.com >>

Join OCA and will probably get one

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:29:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter

In a message dated 96-10-18 13:32:50 EDT, you write:

<< As an add-on to Bob's message, 1997's Performance Chapter show will
be
 August 2&3 at the same location (Howard Johnsons at the Middletown exit
of
 I-75,
 just north of Cincinnati). >>

Look ma, no racetrack again.  Gee, looks like i have to go to Mondello's
again

W Machines

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:55:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile

Heidi,
My compliments to you for "coming out" and braving the wrath of
frustrated Olds enthusiasts!  There are alot of us who are fiercely
devoted to the marque, but we are all cranky when it comes to the
apparent lack of interest shown by your corporation in promoting Olds
performance, particularly in the area of support to classic Olds
owners.  I wrote to you back in September, and was not impressed with
the results of my efforts.  The GM restoration parts catalog should be
renamed the Chevrolet restoration parts catalog.
 I'm not criticizing your efforts personally.  I now understand that you
 have been given little or nothing to work with.  Ditto for the nice
gentleman at the Olds History Center.  He was apologetic for the
incredible lack of foresight shown by some inept policy maker who
ordered the discarding of the invoices for pre-1977 Oldsmobiles.  He
never did explain to me exactly what happend to them, just said that
they were gone.  I find it hard to believe that a corporation of GM's
magnitude had only one set of invoices (i.e. documentation for each car
built detailing the equipment installed at the factory) for every Olds
built before 1977!  THERE MUST BE SOME ARCHIVES SOMEWHERE AT OLDSMOBILE
THAT CAN DOCUMENT WHAT OPTIONS CAME ON MY 1970 442!!! (caps mine).  If
need be, I'll drive to Lansing myself to wade through old
boxes/bins/bags of invoices.   By the way, the VIN for my 1970 442  is
344870M233179  (that's a "zero" in there, not the letter "O").

I know, I know, everyone out there is telling me to get over it.
However, I work for a very large corporation, and I know the penchant
for paper retention that exists in such organizations.  Somewher out
there, either at Olds or at GM, the invoice information exists.  If you
would be so kind as to ask Mr. Rock to look into the missing records
for pre-1977 Oldsmobiles, you would be a hero to Olds enthusiasts
everywhere.  I know he's a busy man, but every Olds enthusiast is
interested in documenting the originality of their car(s).  Pontiac
Historical Services offers an outstanding individualized documentation
service to its customers.  Also, Oldsmobiles sold in Canada have the
invoice information available.  I can only hope that Oldsmobile will
offer the same service to all its loyal customers.  At the very least,
an official explanation from the big guy himself (Mr. Rock) would make
me (and the considerable number of Olds fans on this list) feel at
ease.  I just hope that the official story of the missing records
involves phrases like"... a plague of locusts invaded Lansing...","....
records consumed by fire...", "...tidal wave swept away records
center....", etc...  It will make the whole mess easier to accept.

Keep up the good work, Heidi.  I admire your willingness to step forward
and try to help out us anal retentive motorheads.  At least you are
trying to help.  Send Mr. Rock my regards (and the VIN from my car!).
If at all possible, have Mr. Rock send an email to the Olds list.  I'm
sure we would all be thrilled to hear from him.  Or, I can be reached
at r_mullen@merck.com  Thanks Heidi!!!! Scott Mullen 1970 442


 ----------

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:06:26 -0300
Subject: HAULING

Since there are so many new people on the list I guess I'll try this
again.  I need someone to haul an Olds from Ohio to Iowa, all my leads
so far have turned up zilch.  Car has no engine/tranny.

TIA

Chris

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:22:49 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> >Or the Mitsubushis
>
> Hey now...I know it's Japanese, but mine has 90000 miles on it and I
> haven't had any problems yet...

No flame.  My experience is they have always made a quality products.

My complaint is with the American companies who take the easy road and
try to emulate rather than innovate.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:45:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Tucker

I agree - let the moron go his way - well with a hobby like drinking
included along with fast cars, maybe not , in fear one of us will be in
his way when he goes = ! Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:28:55 -0300
Subject: Get Tucker!

>>Screen Name:	Tucker
Member Name:	TOM TAYLOR
Location:	Jamesburg, NJ USA
Birthdate:	09-17-54
Sex:	Male
Marital Status:	Married
Computers:	  486-33 with evergreen 586-133 upgrade
Hobbies:	Kids,Motorcycles, Fast Oldsmobiles, Drinking, Computer
Junkie
Occupation:	"A"  Tech at a Buick Pontiac GMC Truck dealer
Personal Quote:	GO FOR IT So it doesn't pass you by and do it slow so
it
lasts longer<<

LOL!!  Now THAT'S real smart of Mr. Taylor, isn't it?  Raise hell on
the Net with your AOL account, and leave a full, detailed member
profile on AOL for all to see!  <g>

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 (can't believe some people are so stupid!)

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:25:12 -0300
Subject: Achieva = Ugly New Olds

>> Is it just me, or do you also believe the Cutlass Calais was a
much
>> better-looking and better-performing car than the "Acheesa" that
>> succeeded it?  Damn, they're ugly...especially the 4-door
versions!

>Amen!  Did you ever notice the Grand Am seemed to evolve (like other

>cars) instead of just restart even uglier?

You want to hear something sad?  Last summer (before I lost my job),
I was looking to purchase my first-ever new car.  Naturally, my first
stop was at the local Oldsmobile dealer.  Wanted a Cutlass Supreme,
but the $20K+ prices soon put an end to that idea.  So, what else did
they have to offer for a little less?  The Achieva?  No, thanks!
Couldn't see spending $16K for an UGLY little car like that,
regardless of the fact that it had the coveted rocket on the front
between the grilles.

If I hadn't gotten the pink slip a few weeks later, I was all set to
order a Dodge Neon.  Quicker, more fuel-efficient, better handling,
and better looking than the Achieva...for about $4,000 LESS!!
Outclassed by a MOPAR!  Oh, the shame of it!

But I would have rather had an Olds.  Now THAT's sad, isn't it?

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:14:51 -0300
Subject: Craig Erickson, celebrity in Havre, MT

>>Which station is he on?  KOJM or KQPX?  (I think those are the FM
>>call letters)

>Yup, and he's on both, I think.  He does prerecorded newscasts that
air
>on both, and he announces on KPQX.

If you ever REALLY want to freak the guy out, call him up & tell him
you know about his days at KNAB in Burlington, Colorado when he lived
at the Montezuma Apartments!

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 looking for another late 70s Oldsmobile to drive


------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:59:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The EGR system on 403's- Info

At 12:20 PM 10/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I checked my '78 Chassis Manual last night.  You probably have the
>backpressure EGR.  Externally, the shank part of the valve makes a turn
 >instead of being straight.  And internally different - hollow stem,
etc.

Hmm, no turn in the shank, and the rod seems too small to be hollow;
maybe the wrong EGR valve? This is on a Buick application, so it may
differ from those installed in the Oldses.

>The spec calls for the valve to stay closed until 2" vacuum is applied.
It >is fully open at 8.5" vacuum.  Vacuum source is ported vacuum. I
did not >check the carb diagram for the ported source, and don't have
my '77 with >today.  I'll post Monday if no one else does.

Hmmm, where'd you get the spec?

>My '77 D88 403 w/2.41 gears runs fine, I would think yours would also.
I'm just

Well mine runs ok, just not as smoothly as I'd like. Runs *great*
without the EGR hooked up, though. Maybe this is the wrong EGR on the
car; at $50 a pop, though, I don't feel like experimenting...

>restating here what you already know, but I think there is a problem
somewhere.
>Either component failure or substandard component performance or
assembled >wrong.

I suspect the carb, even though it's been rebuilt twice.

[snip]
>Your experiences will help me out when I rebuild my 403.  BTW, what are
your >cam's specs again (dur, lift @.050", overlap,etc)?  I remember
the "street >gears" discussion and know hi-po 403's used .472 in/ex
lift cams, but would like >to tap your experience in this area.

The cam I have has .445/.472 in/ex lift, and 205/215 @.050 duration. I
was going for torque, but suspect that I still need to move up in gears
to get the most out of this cam around town (but I knew that going in;
I'll change the gears as soon as I pull the posi carrier out of my parts
car).

If I had a lighter car, or didn't drive on the highway so much, I'd go
with a more radical cam (.472 or .496 all around) and 3.73 rear gears.
One thing I did do, and that I'm glad of, is installing a 2400rpm stall
converter. Even with the stock 2.41's, the car moves out much better;
highly recommended.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Howard H <howardh@sundial.sundial.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 02:00:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday night at Old Town

On Friday 10/18 Drew wrote"

"Hey...wait a minute...do
you ever cruise Old Town on Saturday nights?"


What about the "BOP" meet tomorrow, Saturday 10/19 at Old Town? I
beleive it starts early in the morning and of course the cruise at 8:30
P.M.

BTW, anybody else receive the book from Olds to OCA members called
"Setting The Pace" - The First Hundred Years? I just cracked it open and
drooled at all the pictures and facts. AWESOME!!!!

Also for you other Central Floridians, I'm in South Orlando. Any more
lurking in the shadows?

Howard Hosenbold
'84 Hurst Olds
OCA  HOCA  OCF

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 02:02:31 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

Thanks, Charlie !  Mine is definitely not stock, never said it was!
That's why I'm considering purple for a color choice. BTW, I am turning
mid 13's on
 regular tires, fairly stock exhaust(had to because of Va. State
inspections, no straight pipes on street cars). I don't agree with
*ucker's attitude. I didn't even make my post to him, I don't think. He
should be cut loose to go play with the *ord People. The exhaust will
come off this winter, along with some other additions, like maybe a
nitrous kit. Then the 68 Cutlass convertible will begin assembly. I
think I'll go stock with that one.

Katana72    It's STILL NOT your daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!
Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 02:20:15 -0300
Subject: Thanks for your support!!

I want to send my thanks to all involved with this "*ucker Incident".
I'm not sure of where this person is coming from, but it is obviously
from the wrong side. I'm glad to say that I don't think I'll miss him.
And finally, who put the quarter in him? I hope I didn't, not that I
couldn't handle a person of such ineptitude.

Katana72     It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!!
Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:39:15 -0300
Subject: Thanks for your support!!

>Katana72     It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!!
Hastings,
>MN

Hastings?  We grew up neighbors!

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 (native of Apple Valley, MN)

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:37:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday night at Old Town

>What about the "BOP" meet tomorrow, Saturday 10/19 at Old Town? I
beleive it
>starts early in the morning and of course the cruise at 8:30 P.M.

That's right!  I forgot all about that!  As Homer Simpson would say...
"Doh!"

I'll be there from 1:00 on.  I'm on-the-air at AM-1220 from 1-5, and
again from 8-Midnight.

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 (East Orlando, to be exact)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:09:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Thanks for your support!!

Sorry. I didn't grow up here. My wife is from here, whom i met while I
was in the navy in minnesota, on recruiting duty.

Katana72

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:14:19 -0300
Subject: 2 posi's found.

Hello.
I was scrounging around in a local salvage yard today, found 2 posi
equipped olds. First was a 4dr 71/72 Cutlass, the other was a 77 Supreme
The diff from the 77 will bolt onto my 73, but it has the 7.5" unit
instead of the 8.5" set the 73-76 years had. How durable is the 7.5"
rear-end? I'm planning to add a cam, Performer RPM intake, HEI, and set
of #5 heads to my 73, can the 7.5" take the abuse? I'd be willing to
trade either of these rear ends for an 8.5". I know there technically
not "mine," but they've been in this yard for long time and I doubt
they'll be leaving soon. Thanks DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: willie@MADNET.COM
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:28:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

OL>Hi,

OL>  A few days ago someone mentioned that Buick came out with a "Grand
Nationa OL>car and implied good things about it.  I thought about this
one and remember OL>being challenged by one.  The song "Another one
bites the dust..." comes to OL>mind when I viewed him in my rear view
mirror.

Exactly what do you have in your car?  I mean, (if I am not completely
mistaken) the GN is supposedly one of the fastest production cars.  It
should be, considering that it has a 3.8L Sequentially Fuel Injected,
Intercooled supercharged turbo in it. :) (that's if it's a 86-87 GN,
the '85's were not intercooled. :) ) :)


Speaking of Turbo-Buick motors, (and this is olds related),  I happened
across a 3.8 litre turbo charged V6 from an '81 Monte Carlo that I'd
like to drop in my '81 C/S.  What problems should I anticipate?  Will it
just drop in, bolt down and hook up?  Or do I need the computer from the
monte, too?

- -Shane
This message sent from The Net BBS 608-221-5702.
Telnet address: bbs.madnet.com

------------------------------

From: Roland Klinger <Roland.Klinger@bonn.netsurf.de>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:34:34 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Discussion is hot about that new symbol - but what did they really do?
They turned that 1956 Rocket Circle Emblem into a piece of used japanese
soap by turning that outgoing rocket path some 45 degees upwards and
forgotting the rocket. That=B4s all. But question is: why did that 1956
Rocket Circle Emblem last for only one=
 year?
It didn=B4t lok too convincing - seems to me that it was not accepted.

(By the way: who can tell me the meaning of  those letters TWL  in the
midst of the Rocket Circle Emblem?)

greetings, Roland
                                 *********************
                                 =B456 Holiday Coupe
                                 *********************

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 06:31:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

 3.8L Sequentially Fuel Injected,
>Intercooled supercharged turbo in it.
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     That would be something...  Does it have dual quads too?  ;)

  I happened
>across a 3.8 litre turbo charged V6 from an '81 Monte Carlo that I'd
>like to drop in my '81 C/S.  What problems should I anticipate?  Will
it >just drop in, bolt down and hook up?  Or do I need the computer from
the >monte

     Remember rule number one:  Real cars ~don't~ wear bowties, and I'm
afraid that's what the monte has (as I recall)  If you are replacing an
Olds engine or the Buick V6 that the Cutlasses came with, you'll run
into problems long before you get a chance to fire it up.  The motor
mounts and trans pattern are different, requiring you to change the
lower motor mount position on the frame (all those holes down there...)
I've never done this, but it looks about four ranks harder than
impossible!  Those early '80's Turbos had a bad notoriety for going out,
because so much of the public was not aware of the proper driving care
of the units (oil feed vs. rpm vs. time...)  These aren't cheap, either.
The motor that would be worthy of this swap would be from the Grand
Nationals, which of course, run Buick engines.  These will bolt up to
the Olds tranny, and some of the Olds's had Buick V6's to start with.
     My ultimate "dream swap" for my '83 Cutlass comes from a new Gran
Prix or LSS, or Bonneville, etc.  Ya know, that supercharged one.  The
problem I find is that these cars are FWD, with a transverse mounted
engine.  As far as I know, the motor is interchangable, but the intake
comes in from the driver's side, which on the RWD, would be the back of
the engine.  Cowl induction at it's barest, I guess it would be, but an
air filter would be a novel item to sport!  I've looked at the Buick
intakes, and as near as I can tell, they are symmetrical front to rear,
that is, you can put it on either way.  But there's also the issue of
the blower drive that needs to be facing the normal way, too...
     If, for some dimented reason, I ever actually ~do~ end up with one
of these engines, I'll do a lot more indepth research, and be able to
provide more concrete advice, but for now, all I can do is offer
suggestions, and give advice here and there.  I'll leave you with a
summary of the most important advice I can give to an Olds fan; it is
stated in the four simple words of advice that the ancient Indians gave
to the Pilgrims (Nearing Thanksgiving, and all, I gotta throw that in
there:)  "No Buy Bow Tie" Should be easy to remember...  If this all
sounds kinda nondirectional, and almost stupid, it's because it's 3:30
AM, and I'm running on two hours of sleep from last night.  Three jobs
and school tend to warp the brain a bit, ya know...


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:34:25 -0300
Subject: I've Joined the "Dark Side"

Gang,

Greetings from over here on the Toro list.  Thought you'd all be amused
to hear that I joined the "Dark Side" and added a Gutlass as a younger
brother to the Toro.  It's a '72 Cutlass S with the 200 hp 350-4bbl and
factory duals.  Bought it from a little old lady nearby who had first
had it up for sale 8 months ago.  She wanted $4500, I offered $1800 -
called me 2 weeks ago after all this time and said it was mine for
$1800, but she *had* to have here Radio Shack 8-track tape player out of
it!  Ok, I argued the 8-track, but finally gave in!  :)

Would welcome any comments, etc., but e-mail me directly
(gludlam@bcinet.net) as I'm just poking my head in here on your list...

Gregg Ludlam - '67 Toronado Deluxe, '72 Gutlass S
See me and the Toro at www.442.com/ludlam.html

------------------------------

From: John and Elizabeth Gene <gene@cybernex.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:30:19 -0300
Subject: HELP-axle ratio and headers

I have a 1988 Olds Custom Crusier station wagon. It came with a 307
engine and turbo 700 transmission. I have recently replaced the engine
with a 1970 Olds Rocket 350 engine. I disconnected the computer,
replaced the distributor, replaced the carburetor,and disconnected the
transmission(4th gear).

The car is a little slow off the line and has tremendous top end. I
crawled under the car and found the rear end code on the axle tube.
Would anyone be good enough to decode it for me, it is 6YC G7323 . I
called the local Olds parts department and he said it was either a 2.73
, 2.93 , 3.23 with a 8 1/2" ring gear. I find it hard to believe it is
3.23 with its off line performance.

I want to put dual exhaust on the car and have run into the exhaust
manifold problem. I have found a set of steel exhaust manifolds which I
could weld a plate to and close the cross over port but headers would
flow better.Does anyone know of a header manufacturer for this engine.

I would greatly appreciate any help with this project, thank you. John
 +=========================+ | John and Elizabeth Gene | |
gene@bc.cybernex.net    | +=========================+

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:05:21 -0300
Subject: Re: The One That Got Away

The '69 Hurst Olds for  $1700 in 1979.  It had had a fire in the wiring
harness that had done minor interior damage, was in great overall shape
except for that.  Didnt STRESS to my Dad the importance or rarity of the
car and by the time he agreed to front me the money the next morning -
the car was gone.  He apologized but it was my fault for not physically
taking him to the bank that afternoon.

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:15:48 -0300
Subject: Forwarded Msg.: axle ratio and headers

Another bounced message.... gotta keep those subject lines free of the
dreaded "*elp!* word...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:33:35 -0300
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From:	John and Elizabeth Gene <gene@cybernex.net>

I have a 1988 Olds Custom Crusier station wagon. It came with a 307
engine and turbo 700 transmission. I have recently replaced the engine
with a 1970 Olds Rocket 350 engine. I disconnected the computer,
replaced the distributor, replaced the carburetor,and disconnected the
transmission(4th gear).

The car is a little slow off the line and has tremendous top end. I
crawled under the car and found the rear end code on the axle tube.
Would anyone be good enough to decode it for me, it is 6YC G7323 . I
called the local Olds parts department and he said it was either a 2.73
, 2.93 , 3.23 with a 8 1/2" ring gear. I find it hard to believe it is
3.23 with its off line performance.

I want to put dual exhaust on the car and have run into the exhaust
manifold problem. I have found a set of steel exhaust manifolds which I
could weld a plate to and close the cross over port but headers would
flow better.Does anyone know of a header manufacturer for this engine.

I would greatly appreciate any help with this project, thank you. John
 +=========================+ | John and Elizabeth Gene | |
gene@bc.cybernex.net    | +=========================+

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:23:41 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 gibson@webgate.net wrote:
>      I'm not sure what sienna is or if the interior is original.  The
following
> is the way the car was when I bought it -

Sienna was a one-year-only color for '71. The interior shade of sienna
was sort of attractive IMHO... sort of a medium caramel shade, a little
more vibrant than the "dark saddle" color they went to the next year.
They also had a sienna paint that looks real nice when it's new, but
which looks kind of dull once it starts to go.

> -bench seat w/ dark brown(maybe chocolate) crushed velvet or velour
interior

I suspect this isn't factory... ;-)

> -am/fm 8 track

If original, hold on to it... a neat option to have.

> -rear defrost
> -console automatic(too bad)

Dual gate? If so, not too bad...

> -power steering
> -power brakes(disk/drum
> -air conditioning(no compressor in the car)
> -power windows
> -tilt steering
> -and a few others I can't remember

Sounds like a good car!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:35:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile and Heidi

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> Deja Vu!!!  If I were John Rock (or whoever will be taking his place)
I would > be embarrased to have someone with these communication skills
representing > Oldsmobile to possible consumers.  Examples like this do
not speak very > highly of Olds.

Hey Paul, cut her a little slack. I think it's neat that she's even
here. I'd like her to stay... :)

> >   "If  the group has questions, I would be happy to try and answer
them but > >  I am not a wizard with a crystal ball that can tell the
future of Olds and > >  prefer not to be a 'punching bag'." > Oh, this
is nice.  In all my years of working with the public, I learned > early
on that you never talk back to a customer.  This is real cute.  Doesn't >
it make you want to run right out and buy a new Olds?

I didn't read Heidi's response this way. I think it's only human nature
that someone doesn't want to be a punching bag. And that's coming from
the guy who wrote the original, slightly blistering message that got
forwarded to her (yeah, Heidi, it was me... ;) more on that later).


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:52:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile (med. length)

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 OldsHeidi@aol.com wrote:
> We have not officially meet but, good/bad it is my understanding that
my name > *Heidi* and something about having pigtails and freckles and
being related to > John Rock  along with some other words have been
mentioned.  So I thought I > would introduce myself.

Ummm... that would be me. If I had known you would have been reading
that message I might have been a little more... shall we say, measured
in my words. Was feeling a little sarcastic yesterday morning, sorry. :)
Nice to meet you, Heidi!

Speaking only for myself, I think it is great that you have decided to
look into our list. Hope you stay for a while! Despite the dust-up you
walked into the middle of today, we normally are a pretty mild-mannered
and well-behaved group. The common thing for all of us is that we love
Oldsmobiles and the heritage of the company. We just get a little
frustrated sometimes with the direction the division is taking. But we
(or at least I) also appreciate some of the things that have been done,
like the Olds Today newspaper we OCA members get, and the book on
Oldsmobile's history that we are about to receive (still waiting here
BTW), so it works both ways.

I think it would be great if you could stay here for a while to get a
feel for some of the things we discuss here, and then show John Rock a
few of our messages. We usually have a pretty civil and intelligent
(well, sometimes ;) ) discussion of things here. I have a sense that he
appreciates some of what goes on, particularly with the vintage models,
but it would be great if somehow the division could do more in the way
of direct support for those somehow. I still have this fantasy that
there is a warehouse full of NOS stuff somewhere in Lansing....

> Now,  If you have a problem, as the person who posted the lovely,
glowing > comments about myself and Oldsmobile did, fell free to send me
an email or > give a call 1-800-442-6537 > > Heidi  ......with only a
few freckles :-) > Oldsmobile > Lansing, MI

Yeah, the "freckles" line was probably a little out of line. Sorry. :)
Nice response too, BTW. I'll try to be more gentlemanly from here on
out, and you promise me to try and have a thick skin with some of us on
here, OK?

Welcome!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:54:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile and Heidi

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Hey Paul, cut her a little slack. I think it's neat that she's even
> here. I'd like her to stay... :)

Have to agree with you, Greg.  Heidi's part of the family now.  Back in
July when the Olds web site first opened, I had suggested they join the
list.  I'm glad to see Heidi finally has.

Don't take our ranting too much to heart, Heidi.  It not that we hate
Oldsmobile *OR* you.  On the contrary -- we're just feeling a little let
 down, maybe even a little jilted.  Our first love and all that...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:16:21 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Build Grand National


  I happened
>across a 3.8 litre turbo charged V6 from an '81 Monte Carlo that I'd
>like to drop in my '81 C/S.  What problems should I anticipate?  Will
it >just drop in, bolt down and hook up?  Or do I need the computer
from the >monte

     Remember rule number one:  Real cars ~don't~ wear bowties, and I'm
     afraid that's what the monte has (as I recall)  If you are
replacing an
     Olds engine or the Buick V6 that the Cutlasses came with, you'll
run into
     problems long before you get a chance to fire it up.  The motor
mounts and
     trans pattern are different, requiring you to change the lower
motor mount
     position on the frame (all those holes down there...)  I've never
done
     this, but it looks about four ranks harder than impossible!


          Uh...No, I don't think so, Charlie.  The 81 Monte Turbo
          _did_ use the Buick Turbo V6 (those "Turbo" emblems with the
          bowtie are probably coveted by the Chebby crowd) - the only
          other V6 turbo sold by GM was the 4.3 liter used exclusively
          in the GMC Syclone and Typhoon (and that one _was_ a Chebby
          motor but it would make a nice Bravada swap).  Anyway, the
          Monte motor should bolt right into the Cutlass (it _was_
          originally equipped with a V-6, wasn't it?), including the
          motor mounts, crossmember, and trans bolt pattern.  You will
          need the computer from the Monte.  I don't know if the trans
          is different (ie, stronger) than the one originally in the
          Olds, so you may want to get that also.  I don't think 81
          transmissions were computer controlled, though.  One problem
          might be hood clearance on the Cutlass, as both the Buick
          and Monte turbo cars required lumps in the hood to clear the
          turbo.

          Joe Padavamo
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 10:35:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

>  I happened
>>across a 3.8 litre turbo charged V6 from an '81 Monte Carlo that I'd
>>like to drop in my '81 C/S.  What problems should I anticipate?  Will
it >>just drop in, bolt down and hook up?  Or do I need the computer
from the >>monte

Beware that this might be a Chevy 3.8 (229) turbo charged. The guys on
the GN/T-Type mailing list told me that turbo charged Chevy engines are
crap. I woner if the engine in the Monte is stock? Never heard of that.
Check the Vin, engine stamping. If it is it would be a carbed V-6. Much
better to go ahead and get a fuel injected one, they make more power and
can be tweaked better.

>time...)  These aren't cheap, either.  The motor that would be worthy
of >this swap would be from the Grand Nationals, which of course, run
Buick >engines.  These will bolt up to the Olds tranny, and some of the
Olds's had >Buick V6's to start with.

I was told by the GN/T-Type list also that a Buick V-6 in a Cutlass is
~not~ the same as the ones in the GN's. They need to be rebuilt to
handle the Turbo and the extra power it makes. Internally the block is
weak and needs beeed up. It is cheaper to get a GN block rather than
build up a run of the mill one

>Thanksgiving, and all, I gotta throw that in there:)  "No Buy Bow Tie"
>Should be easy to remember..

Yea but for myself it is hard to resist dreaming about a Gen. IV  502
supercharged BBC in my 80 442 :)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High
Performance 81 Camaro......................for sale 75 Hurst/Olds
W-25.....for sale real soon 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://
www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 10:39:21 -0300
Subject: Your Power Seat

Hey Tom,
Did you get the power seat thingy I sent you? Just Curious
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High
Performance 81 Camaro......................for sale 75 Hurst/Olds
W-25.....for sale real soon 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://
www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 10:40:27 -0300
Subject: Your Power Seat

Sorry about that last post, it was meant to go private......:(

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High
Performance 81 Camaro......................for sale 75 Hurst/Olds
W-25.....for sale real soon 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://
www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 10:52:07 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

>No flame.

I knew that...

>My experience is they have always made a quality products.

They're not bad.  Mine has served me well.  Would rather have another
Olds in it's place, but the wife likes the A/C, the better handling,
etc.

>My complaint is with the American companies who take the easy road and
>try to emulate rather than innovate.

Yeah, what ever happened to good old American ingenuity??
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:02:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday night at Old Town

At 03:37 AM 10/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>What about the "BOP" meet tomorrow, Saturday 10/19 at Old Town? I
>beleive it
>>starts early in the morning and of course the cruise at 8:30 P.M.
>
>That's right!  I forgot all about that!  As Homer Simpson would say...
>"Doh!"

Awww, man!  I didn't know about that!  I'll see if I can make it over
there earlier.  Is there any kind of swap meet??  I'm going to be at the
cruise tonight.   Drew, I'll find where your at and bang on the window
or something.  I've got a 69 Cutlass 4DHT that's got badly oxidized
black paint, crappy interior, and rust in many places (runs good,
though).  Can't miss it.  See you tonight! - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:14:35 -0300
Subject: Headers for Olds SB

>I have a 1988 Olds Custom Crusier station wagon.  I have recently
replaced the engine with a 1970 Olds Rocket 350 engine.

>I want to put dual exhaust on the car and have run into the exhaust
manifold >problem. I have found a set of steel exhaust manifolds which I
could weld a >plate to and close the cross over port but headers would
flow better.Does >anyone know of a header manufacturer for this engine.

YES, headers are available for the Olds 350 engine from Hooker.  They
have a Competition Header (not Super Comp) that will fit Olds Cutlass,
'68-'77, 350-403, $129.99, part# 520-3901.  They're available in Jeg's
catalog (1-800-345-4545). - -- Dave Paulison                  1969
Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:41:59 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

     My apologies, I misstated the console.  It's a column automatic.
As far as the sierra colour, is it like a caramel?  The dash seems to
be a little lighter than the rest of the interior.  I am positive that
e 8-track is factory.

               Gerald Gibson
               gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:09:38 -0300
Subject: A mathematical performance question

     I'm considering buying a car, sorry it's not an Olds, and I'm
hoping that someone can do some sort of calculations to figure out a
performance change for me.
     The car weighs about 2100lbs has just over 300hp and does
consistant 12.5's.  My problem is that is has an automatic tranny.
What improvements would putting a 5-speed in make?
     Thanks for any help.

              Gerald Gibson
              gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:28:46 -0300
Subject: "JC" Clips..

> ... a small retainer clip which had fallen off the carb linkage
> and asked me:
>
> "Hey kid, you know what these things are called?"
>
> "No."
>
> "They're called JC clips because every time one falls off
> you say Je*** Ch****!!"

Oh man!  Thanks... I needed a good laugh today (at work on a
Saturday, reading mail between compiles).  I almost fell out
of my seat I was laughing so hard!  :)

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Jason K. Adcock" <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:44:41 -0300
Subject: Olds Book

I just recieved my copy of the book yesterday (Fri. 18), too.  I also
think it is very impressive.  Kudos to the two authors for doing such a
wonderful job. ____________________________ Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:22:36 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Book

Would anyone happen to know what the "cutoff" day was for new
OCA members to get the book?  I joined OCA sometime in August
(I have the exact date at home) and I'm wondering if that was
too late to get a copy of this "Oldsmobile Book".

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:31:33 -0300
Subject: the Achieva

> > Is it just me, or do you also believe the Cutlass Calais was a much
> > better-looking and better-performing car than the "Acheesa" that
> > succeeded it?  Damn, they're ugly...especially the 4-door versions!
>
> You mean the Under-Achieva?

I drove one of thoses as a rental once.  That's exactly what
we called it.  I think mopeds were passing me...


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:43:00 -0300
Subject: Re: '69 Engine Compartment

Glenn,

Sounds Like you've got/had your work cut out for you.  You should be
receiving the package of pics I sent you any day/minute now.  I mailed
it Monday, but of course snail mail isn't highly known for their
expediency.  I went ahead and made copies of the owners manual engine
compartment pictures, figuring you would probably need that as well.
They turned out very nice.
 I'll get those in the mail to you right away.  Let me know when you
receive the other pictures.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
 ----------
>Glenn,
>
>Last night I was going through my Oldsmobile stuff, and ran across my
owners
>manual for my '69 Cutlass.  I haven't looked at it in a while, and
started >thumbing through it.  just past the middle of the manual is a
detailed view

>of the engine compartment, completely identifying the most common
>maintenance locations of the engine.  It is THE best picture I've seen
to >date.  Do you have an owners manual?  If you don't, I'll be glad to
make a >copy of that photo for you as well, and send it to you. > >ps.
What condition is your engine compartment in, if I might ask? > Jeff,

>>      No don't have a manual.  When I purchased this car a couple
years ago >>it was pretty stripped out; wrong motor, trans, rearend,
interior pretty >>butchered up etc.  I've been working on getting it
back to as near original >>as possible.  Since then I put a TH400 in
it, mostly new interior...haven't >>got to the headliner yet.  I built
a 455ci. last winter and took advantage >>of an open engine compartment
to strip the rest of it, detail and repaint >>it.  I've recently got a
hold of the right air cleaner for it but things like >>washer and
overflow bottles, kick-down switch, and who knows what else is
>>missing.  I've collected a few things but need a few decent picks for
proper >>location as well as hose and wire harness routing. >>     I
built a 455 instead of a 400 because I was having a tough time >>finding
a decent core let alone some internals such as pistons.   The motor
>>came out great, I'm real happy with it's performance. It's painted
Olds >>Bronze and I think it looks just like the 400ci. I used a stock
cast iron >>intake manifold and Qjet from a '68 4-4-2.  The air cleaner
I have, used to >>be red but someone painted it black.  I've got to
strip it and repaint it >>the right color but at least it's from a '69
4-4-2.  A lot of the used stuff >>I purchased from Ron Memmer.  A lot
of the new stuff (to numerous to >>mention) I bought from Year One. >>
So as you can tell I'm trying to get a lot of little things that make
up >>the details. >>I've done a good deal from memory but after 20 some
years things can get a >>little hazy. >>If you could send along a copy
from your manual I would definitely >>appreciate it.  It sounds like it
would be a lot of help.  BTW I'm still >>checking my mail anxiously
waiting for the pictures you sent.  Didn't arrive >>today (Fri.),
hopefully tomorrow. >> >> >>Thanks, >>Glenn

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:03:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 1988 Custom Cruiser axle ratio

> I have a 1988 Olds Custom Crusier station wagon. It came with a 307
engine > and turbo 700 transmission. I have recently replaced the engine
with a 1970

Are you sure it isn't a 200-4R?

> parts department and he said it was either a 2.73 , 2.93 , 3.23 with a
8 > 1/2" ring gear. I find it hard to believe it is 3.23 with its off
line > performance.

I don't have the manual to decode this rear end, but I understand that
in 1987, Custom Cruisers came with the 2.73 ratio.  In 1988, 2.93 was
used to improve acceleration (trying to make better use of the 307),
while the 3.23 was available with the 5000lb trailer towing package.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:58:35 -0300
Subject: Re:Quad 4's and stats etc.

On 18 Oct 96 at 23:21, gibson@webgate.net wrote:

> With all the mention of Quad 4's I've gottensomewhat curious. Is this
the > engine that was in Grand Am's for awhile?

That would be the same Quad, with the exception of the W-41 Quad.
That is Olds-only (since they developed the Quad), 190-195 BHP.  Quad
H.O.s have a 10:1 compression Ratio, 2.3 Liter.

>  If so or if not what all
> did it come in, what were it's performance numbers, etc?

It can be found in the Calais/Achieva, Cutlass Supreme, Grand Am, Ch*vy
Beretta(sp?)
GTZ (before they got the automatic tranny).  A lesser (IMHO)
derivative, now called the Twin Cam 2.4 (how original!) is found in
even more GM cars, like the Cavalier, SunFire.

The H.O. engine is found in the Cutlass Supreme, Calais International
Series and Quad442, Achieva (SCs I think), Grand Am SE and LE with
performance package
(Pre-'92), and the Beretta GTZ.  All had manual tranny and 180BHP.

The W-41 Quad4 is found in the 1991 W-41 Quad442 (200 made), and the
1992-1994 Achieva SCX.  This engine puts out 190-195 BHP.

The standard Quad had 150BHP (the Twin Cam 2.4 adds balance shafts,
but keeps this HP).

Expect around 30MPG from any of them.

If you want more specs, let me know.  I can bring out some service
info.

I feel GM (Olds in particular) made a big mistake in killing the H.O.
and the W-41Quads.  A little refinement would have satisfied the
whiners complaining about noise and harshness (what engine with any
sign of performance is quiet?).

I was told the Quad started out in development as a 4 valve V8,
market pressure said the world was moving to 4 cyls, and a Quad was
born.  Too bad it took Caddy to envision a GM 4 valve V8.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:16:02 -0300
Subject: How I we get Olds books????

With all this talk of the new Olds book that Olds has sent to Oldsmobile
clubs, I was wondering if it was possible for us (on the list) to get a
copy of the book.  I think most of us are pretty die hard and would
really enjoy the book....

Maybe *Heidi* could help us out....

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:51:45 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

I would to get off this list every time I go online there must be
between 50 and 100 pieces fo mail and most of them are duplicates. Tell
me how and I will. By the way the car that runs 12ves is an original
W-30 66 442 with the battery in the trunk and all that neat ram air
stuff the engine was really worn out so I got a 425 from a 66 toro, used
my marine heads and an original W-30 cam for a car with std shift and no
ac or power brakes.

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:51:19 -0300
Subject: Re:Quad's 4's etc..

     Mike,

     Thanks for the info.  I'm sure I'll get a bit of a hard time over
this one, but you could do amazing things with a 4 built to those
ratings.  If aftermarket parts are available you could blow away many
an unsuspecting car.  I've done a lot of research on non-GM(sorry
guy's) 4's lately.  Another automaker has gotten in excess of 800hp out
of a four.
     Were the W-40's FWD or RWD?  I've been looking into FWD 4's and
it's not very hard to get into low to mid 12's.  Where could I get some
really detailed information on these cars and engines?
     BTW, none of the above refers to any North American cars or
products.  I don't hate Japanese car, I just wouldn't personally own
one.
     Thanks again for the info.

            Gerald Gibson
            gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:14 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

>I would to get off this list every time I go online there must be
between 50 >and 100 pieces fo mail and most of them are duplicates.

     The simple procedure is to post a message with "unsubcribe
oldsmobile" in the body.  Just like getting into it.  There is also a
digest option which can eliminate many of the redundant postings.  The
rudeness of content of your previous postings certainly ruffled many
feathers on this list, mine included, but I have to agree it sounds like
you've got quite a car, at least.  Was someone else using your account
during those postings, or were you enjoying the drinking hobby a little
~too~ much, or is that just your nature?  Some of us are just curious.
Oldsmobile has a connotation of friendly beatings (Fords excluded_)  but
those posts were not very representative of any true Olds enthusiasts
we've ever come across. Basically, the way I see it, if you can show
good cause that those postings were not really yours, and would not
happen again, we'd probably be happy to let you stay in and use the
digest option if you decide to.  If those posts are your nature, then we
don't want you here.  I hope that doesn't come as a shock.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:38 -0300
Subject: Rocket Circle

In a message dated 96-10-19 04:01:43 EDT, you write:

> (By the way: who can tell me the meaning of  those letters TWL  in the
midst
>  of the Rocket Circle Emblem?)

I had to think about this one.  You must have seen the illustration in
Fusick's catalog.  Here's a brief explanation of the Rocket Circle.
Starting with the '56 models, when you purchased a new Olds you were
automatically given membership in the Oldsmobile Rocket Circle owner's
group.  Part of your membership was a subscription to Rocket Circle
magazine, the other part was the chrome Rocket Circle emblem you mention
above.  This emblem mounted on the top center of the dashboard, on the
windshield garnish molding.  The whole emblem is chrome, except the
Rocket "vapor trail" which is gold-tone with a black background.  After
the emblem was screwed to the dash, the "vapor trail" was put on with
adhesive to cover the screw hole.  The black background inside the vapor
trail is where the owner's initials or name was placed with self-stick
chrome letters.  The illustration you refer to must be out of a parts or
dealer book and the initials are just an example.

Paul
Your Oldsmobile history lesson for today.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

In a message dated 96-10-19 12:26:38 EDT, you write:

> Would anyone happen to know what the "cutoff" day was for new
>  OCA members to get the book?  I joined OCA sometime in August
>  (I have the exact date at home) and I'm wondering if that was
>  too late to get a copy of this "Oldsmobile Book".
>

Not sure.  I was at the NAOC meet in Wheeling WV in July when I was
first told about the book being sent to members.  At that point the NAOC
had already submitted their roster.  These seem to be landing closer to
Lansing and taking longer to get farther away.  Got mine today, near
Harrisburg PA.
 Maybe you'll get yours in a day or two.

Paul
Hoping you'll get one, cause they're nice!

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:33 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

In a message dated 96-10-18 22:32:55 EDT, you write:

> Hey now...I know it's Japanese, but mine has 90000 miles on it and I
haven't
>  had any problems yet...

Yet... is the key word in this phrase ;)

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Book

In a message dated 96-10-19 11:39:30 EDT, you write:

> I just recieved my copy of the book yesterday (Fri. 18), too.  I also
think >  it is very impressive.  Kudos to the two authors for doing such
a wonderful > job.

Got mine today too, had to fight to put down.  I hope everyone receiving
one of these considers a brief note of appreciation to Olds, as they
didn't have to do this.  Also, I'm sure Helen and Jim would appreciate
knowing how much we appreciate all the work they went to to write such a
fine book.  Please let them know.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:27 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

In a message dated 96-10-18 22:05:20 EDT, you write:

> Paul,
>
>       I'm not sure what sienna is or if the interior is original.

Sienna is like a rust color.  What color is the dash and everything
else, all brown?

> The
> following
>  is the way the car was when I bought it -
>
>  -bench seat w/ dark brown(maybe chocolate) crushed velvet or velour
interior
>  -console automatic(too bad)

You have a bench seat and a console?  Please explain further.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:54:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile

In a message dated 96-10-18 22:48:08 EDT, you write:

>  At the
>  very least, an official explanation from the big guy himself (Mr.
Rock) >  would make me (and the considerable number of Olds fans on
this list) feel

>  at ease.  I just hope that the official story of the missing records
>  involves phrases like"... a plague of locusts invaded
Lansing...",".... >  records consumed by fire...", "...tidal wave swept
away records center....", > >  etc...  It will make the whole mess
easier to accept.

Have you considered contacting Helen Earley and asking her what she
thinks happened to the invoices?  She may know something that the
gentleman you spoke to doesn't, after all, she's been employed there
since the early '40s.
 If I were you I would call the History Center again and speak only to
Helen.
 And be nice, she's our biggest friend at Olds and if she can do
anything for you she will.  If she can't there's a good reason.

Paul
Lucky enough to have gotten the invoice from the dealer.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:04:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

>          Uh...No, I don't think so, Charlie.  The 81 Monte Turbo
>          _did_ use the Buick Turbo V6
     OK, I wasn't sure, I never looked.  I stand corrected again :(

>  I don't think 81 transmissions were computer controlled, though.

     Mine was, I think most of them were.




      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:04:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers for Olds SB

>
>YES, headers are available for the Olds 350 engine from Hooker.  They
have a >Competition Header (not Super Comp) that will fit Olds Cutlass,
'68-'77, >350-403, $129.99, part# 520-3901.  They're available in Jeg's
catalog >(1-800-345-4545).

 Keep in mind the '78 up chassis is way different, and those headers
will ~not~ fit in the newer A/G chassis.  I've got two different sets of
the older styles, (one Hooker, and one Blackjack, both really nice) but
neither will fit the Rockit.  (SB or BB) I know there were companies
everywhere that made headers for the '80's A/G bodys, tho', and you
could get them fairly affordably.  (Until you stick a bigblock in there,
then bend over...:)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:06:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Rocket Circle

>In a message dated 96-10-19 04:01:43 EDT, you write:
>
>> (By the way: who can tell me the meaning of  those letters TWL  in
the >midst >>  of the Rocket Circle Emblem?)

     ~T~iny
     ~W~hite
     ~L~etters  !!!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:06:45 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

     Paul,

     A temporary lapse.  It is a column shifter.  If it were on the
floor I wouldn't have said(too bad), although I always prefer standards
if given a choice.  Sorry about the mixup.

                Gerald Gibson
                gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 19:50:46 -0300
Subject: Re: More Info Was VIN Decode

On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 gibson@webgate.net wrote:
>      My apologies, I misstated the console.  It's a column automatic.
As far as > the sierra colour, is it like a caramel?  The dash seems to
be a little lighter > than the rest of the interior.  I am positive
that e 8-track is factory.

My friend Brian has a '71 with a sienna interior. He was able to obtain
a vinyl dye from either Fusicks or Specialty Olds that he used to
restore parts of the interior and it was a perfect match. That might be
the way for you to go as well. He tells me the only problem with this
interior is obtaining a repro carpet; apparently none of the carpet
places make the exact shade since this was a 1-year only color. He ended
up using an ACC carpet in Burnt Orange which he claims is the closest
match he could find to the original color.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #336
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