To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/17/96 01:09:56 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #333


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 17 October 1996     Volume 01 : Number 333


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:57:13 -0300
Subject: Test (I got a new ISP) 

Got a new ISP and haven't rec'd any mail since re-subscribing.
Dave Isho
D & S Limousine
and Sedan Service

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:22:37 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol 

In a message dated 96-10-15 01:20:16 EDT, you write:

> Honestly, what do you think about the new Oldsmobile symbol that is 
>  replacing the Rocket?

I'm sure the new logo will help them sell a whole lot more Oldsmobiles --
NOT!  Hate it, don't like it at all (but then, I've been told I'm resistant
to change, can you believe that?)  Still trying to figure out if its an "O"
or a circle with a stylized Rocket through it, or something that could easily
be changed to an "A" when they rename the division to Aurora.  I want the
Rocket back.  And I'm really pissed that they took the Rocket off the
building in Lansing, as I really wanted to see that at the 100th Anniversary.
 Thanks John Rock, screw thing up just enough -- then retire.  Or was he
asked to leave...

Have you heard that Olds is dropping it's Value Pricing concept because of
consumer non-acceptance?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:22:45 -0300
Subject: Re: W31/Rallye 350 F85 

In a message dated 96-10-15 12:36:18 EDT, you write:

> Did all Rallye 350's have the W-car OAI stuff? This one has a
primer-sprayed
>  but originally yellow non-OAI regular hood and no wing. Conversely,
there's
>  the OAI aircleaner in the trunk. Perhaps the hood got changed?


W-25 hood was part of the package.  The wing was originally a mandatory
option, but was later changed to a "free-flow" option.  Hood was probably
damaged beyond repair at some point, with a new replacement being
unavailable/prohibitively expensive.

Paul

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:42:09 -0300
Subject: Non-Olds but car related, kinda...(Fwd) life and reality (fwd) 

This got forewarded everywhere, I figured some on the list might like to see
it too.
>>
>>
>>>>DEATH OF AN INNOCENT
>>>>
>>>>I went to a party, Mom, I remembered what you said.
>>>>You told me not to drink, Mom, so I drank soda instead.
>>>>I really felt proud inside, Mom, the way you said I would.
>>>>I didn't drink and drive, Mom, even though the others said I
>>>>should.
>>>>
>>>>I know I did the right thing, Mom, I know you are always right.
>>>>Now the party is finally ending, Mom, as everyone is driving out
>>>>of sight.
>>>>As I got into my car, Mom, I knew I'd get home in one piece.
>>>>Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet.
>>>>
>>>>I started to drive away, Mom, but as I pulled out into the road,
>>>>the other car didn't see me, Mom, and hit me like a load.
>>>>As I lay there on the pavement, Mom, I hear the policeman say,
>>>>the other guy is drunk, Mom, and now I'm the one who will pay.
>>>>
>>>>I'm lying here dying, Mom.  I wish you'd get here soon.
>>>>How could this happen to me, Mom?  My life just burst like a
>>>>balloon.
>>>>There is blood all around me, Mom, and most of it is mine.
>>>>I hear the medic say, Mom, I'll die in a short time.
>>>>
>>>>I just wanted to tell you, Mom, I swear I didn't drink.
>>>>It was the others, Mom.  The others didn't think.
>>>>He was probably at the same party as I.
>>>>The only difference is, he drank and I will die.
>>>>
>>>>Why do people drink, Mom?  It can ruin your whole life.
>>>>I'm feeling sharp pains now.  Pains just like a knife.
>>>>The guy who hit me is walking, Mom, and I don't think it's fair.
>>>>I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare.
>>>>
>>>>Tell my brother not to cry, Mom.  Tell Daddy to be brave.
>>>>And when I go to heaven, Mom, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave
>>>>Someone should have told him, Mom, not to drink and drive.
>>>>If only they had told him, Mom, I would still be alive.
>>>>
>>>>My breath is getting shorter, Mom.  I'm becoming very scared.
>>>>Please don't cry for me, Mom.  When I needed you, you were
>>>>always there.
>>>>I have one last question, Mom, before I say good bye.
>>>>I didn't drink and drive, so why am I the one to die?
>>>>
>>>>************************
>>>>Someone took the effort to write this poem.
>>>>
>>>>So please, forward this to as many people as you can.
>>>>And see if we can get a chain going around the world that will
>>>>make people understand that drinking and driving don't mix.
>>>>
>>>>TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, so please forward this letter
>>>>to as many people as you can.
>
>
>--openmail-part-03d3eb20-00000001--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:15:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Dick Miller's Newsletter...

Speaking of newsletters...Does anybody here subscribe to Year One's 
restoration newsletter?  Anybody have any details on it?

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:53:17 -0300
Subject: "1" exhaust heads

My friend found himself a '69 olds Cutless supreme that has been 
modified with:  
455 "F" code motor
"C" cylinder heads 
"1" exhaust manifolds
TH350 trans
traction bars
AC- but missing most of necessary parts
PS, PB, etc.
	The car is in real need of work, it was parked under a tree for 
5 years.  Needs interior too.  But for $300! 
	The only thing I couldn't positively ID were the "1" exhaust 
manifolds.  Please help.
Thanks
Brad 
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:00:50 -0300
Subject: Ignition removal help

I need help removing the ignition from one of my 68s.  I tried the paper 
clip and turn to the left trick, but couldn't get any action.  What else 
do I have to do?  Also, what about removing the escheon?

Thanks,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:45:21 -0300
Subject: HELP AGAIN HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS!

I sent out this message four days ago so if you've seen it ignore it.  It 
didnot appear on the OLDS net.

I rebuilt a '69 455ci .040 over.  I can't keep head gaskets sealed.

I had every thing straightened heads, block ,and manifold.  Used 
Permatorque BLUESs no additional sealer,  followed torque sequence and 
spec , etc.

Any ideas?? Torque to 300lbs, use forma gasket?

Later, Jeff

------------------------------

From: Rapid_Ron_L@prodigy.com (MR RONALD C LASKA)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 04:02:05 -0300
Subject: Bravada 

Hi, I'm new to the mailing list, and own a '93 Bravada.  I love many 
features of this vehicle (94,000 miles), but have replaced a lot of 
parts since the 60,000 mile mark.  These include serpentine belt 
idler and tensioner, alternator, fuel pump, EGR valve, ball joints, 
seat belt retractor, rear-door window trim, shocks, and others.  I 
also had a slow-speed accident because the ABS actuated 
inappropriately.  Most of these problems are design-related.  The 
parts departments know all about them, but Oldmobile customer service 
claims to have on info of any of these being common.  What do you 
folks think?  Any similar problems, and what hits next?  Right now I 
get a single "clunk" from the left-front when I start moving after 
sitting a while.  Anybody know what this is?

I do really like the vehicle, but decry the poor engineering and 
customer service.  I look forward to sharing experiences with other 
Bravada drivers (those of you who don't have one, and live above the 
snow belt are really missing the boat!

Rapid_Ron_L@Prodigy.com

ps. I race Go Karts - the 100mph variety.  Any kindred spirits?

------------------------------

From: Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:10:32 -0300
Subject: RE: New Olds Emblem 

GoodDay:

The New Emblem, Does Not And Will Not Replace The ROCKET.
It's Just Another Symbol Of OLDSMOBILE Quality.
Now Theres A Way Of Looking At It, YES ?

Just My $.02 Worth

Jim Fleeson<o455@ix.netcom.com>
Ohioooooooo

1982 Cutlass Supreme (455)
1969 Cutlass S (Still Wounded)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:21:14 -0300
Subject: Forwarded Message

Jeff Stanish sent this but it bounced back to me. The reason for this is 
that the word "Help" was in the subject line and majordomo interprets 
this as a request for admin service. Same thing will happen if the word 
is in the first few lines of the message it seems. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Subject: HELP AGAIN HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS!

I sent out this message four days ago so if you've seen it ignore it.  It 
didnot appear on the OLDS net.

I rebuilt a '69 455ci .040 over.  I can't keep head gaskets sealed.

I had every thing straightened heads, block ,and manifold.  Used 
Permatorque BLUESs no additional sealer,  followed torque sequence and 
spec , etc.

Any ideas?? Torque to 300lbs, use forma gasket?

Later, Jeff

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 03:52:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Forwarded Message

>>
>Subject: HELP AGAIN HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS!
>
>I sent out this message four days ago so if you've seen it ignore it.  It 
>didnot appear on the OLDS net.
>
>I rebuilt a '69 455ci .040 over.  I can't keep head gaskets sealed.
>
>I had every thing straightened heads, block ,and manifold.  Used 
>Permatorque BLUESs no additional sealer,  followed torque sequence and 
>spec , etc.
>
>Any ideas?? Torque to 300lbs, use forma gasket?
>
>Later, Jeff
>
>
    I experienced a similar problem with a stock intake manifold.  It leaked
at all 4 corners when I first started it.  I followed proper torque specs
and tightened in three steps.  I was finally able to get it to seal by
retorqueing while the motor was still hot.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:16:00 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

> Still trying to figure out if its an "O" or a circle with a stylized 
> Rocket through it, 

...as if the marketing weenies have been watching too much Star-Trek.

> or something that could easily be changed to an "A" when they rename 
> the division to Aurora.  

BINGO!

Lets' face facts, Oldsmobile.  You've lost market share because you 
stopped building road cars and, with few exceptions, started building 
undistinguished crap.  Most Oldsmobiles built in the last few year are 
about as distinctive as a brown paper bag.

Pssst...  Hey, Olds!  Have you looked at some of the cars Chrysler is 
building?  The Viper?  That retro-thing?  Did you see the new Bug 
Volkswagen is building?  You better wake up and smell the exhaust fumes 
...before the Aurora becomes just another corporate sedan.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:24:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Test (I got a new ISP)

Dave Isho wrote:
> 
> Got a new ISP and haven't rec'd any mail since re-subscribing.

It's makin it.  Greg said CCN was DOA last night though.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:41:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Bravada 

At 04:02 AM 10/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi, I'm new to the mailing list, and own a '93 Bravada.  I love many 
>features of this vehicle (94,000 miles), but have replaced a lot of 
>parts since the 60,000 mile mark.  

Hi Ron, sorry to hear that, I was thinking of getting one. I'd like to see
some more feedback from other owners about the reliability of theirs.

> Right now I 
>get a single "clunk" from the left-front when I start moving after 
>sitting a while.  Anybody know what this is?

The first thing that comes to mind is possibly a caliper sticking. I have
also heard that the early Bravada's (or is that Bravadi) were plagued with
front carrier (or was it transfer case) problems. Not sure how reliable that
info was. Start with the caliper first, unless someone else has a better idea.
Dave Isho
D & S Limousine
and Sedan Service

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:13:55 -0300
Subject: CA Emissions 

Joe,
CA emissions now requires that you keep the relevant smog control parts
that were on it when built. I.e. my '66 has to have a qjet and airpump,
but I can use the HEI distributor since it was a factory part on that
motor in 74.
cf

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:13:18 -0300
Subject: ballast resistor ?

If my OE coil  (68 Cutlass S 350) did not require a ballast resistor, why 
does my hot dog aftermarket coil (MSD Blaster 2) tell me to wire one in the 
circuit?

If I put in the ballast resistor, can I trash the original resistor wire, 
which by now is pretty brittle and otherwise suspect?

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:11:04 -0300
Subject: Re: A Rallye 350?

Boat anchor?  Well I guess that you could give it to one of the Vista 
Cruiser owners :-)
or 98 :-)
or 88 :-)
or any pre-'60  :-)

Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
(my father's Oldsmobile's body, but NOT his motor)

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:34:49 -0300
Subject: Windshield Washer Fluid Pump

Hi,

(86 Olds Cutlass Supreme Coupe)
Windshield washer fluid pump does not seem to be working. Nothing =
squirts, can't
 even hear it run. While looking under the hood I noticed that the wiper =
pump and
 the washer pump are bolted together or one unit????? If not, that is a =
huge pump
 for just washer fluid! If they are two pumps or separate units in =
theory, can one be replaced without replacing the other? (wipers work). =
If they are separate, I take it the smaller of the two is for the fluid? =


I have not ruled out a problem at the washer lever in the steering =
column yet. I'll be doing that this week. Thanks, Joanne

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:47:41 -0300
Subject: motor oil?

I've got a question for you.  My friend is having a rebuilt motor put in his 
'83 Cutlass Supreme-- AutoZone warranty work {its his 4th AZ motor this 
year}.  And he would like an opinion from you all on what would be the 
best WEIGHT oil to put in the new motor (not for break in, but after) for 
winter, and for summer in the mountains of East Tennessee.  Please no 
brand bashing, he has decided to definitely put Kendall oil in it.  The 
motor is the Buick 3.8 liter V6.  The motor will have his 4bbl. on it, 
and while he doesn't drive a car too hard, he doesn't drive like a 
granny-lady either.  Opinions?

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:39:09 -0300
Subject: Re: ignition switch

I just thought that the removable key was an Oldsmobile option of some 
sort.  On both my '84 Cutlass Supreme (160k on body 66k on 350 4bbl.) and 
my friends '83 Cutlass Supreme (150k on body and 20k on 3.8l 4bbl.) the 
key can be removed in any position-- but it definitely DOES take a key to 
crank the car up.  Are both of our ignition switches just worn badly?

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles) **Anybody remember the Olds 215?**
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:56:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Windshield Washer Fluid Pump 

>Windshield washer fluid pump does not seem to be working. Nothing squirts,
>can't even hear it run.

That figures; it's an electric pump. Unlike the older reciprocating pump,
there's no release mechanism to click, so when it's dead, it's completely
silent.

>While looking under the hood I noticed that the wiper pump and the washer
>pump are bolted together or one unit?????

Sort of, yes. The washer pump/motor (it's a little flexible-vane pump in
a housing on the end of an electric motor) is under the bottom of the 
plastic cover. If you are patient, you can remove the cover only, by 
removing the side harness plug, then three screws around the perimeter 
(at least one of which is partially obscured below the cover) and the 
input and output hoses. (Pay close attention to which is the inlet and
which is the outlet before removing the hoses.)

Some people here have said it's easier to remove the wiper motor and 
washer pump/cover as an assembly; take your pick.

In any event, once you separate the cover from the wiper motor, the 
washer pump comes away with the cover. There is a spring-steel clip 
which must be removed at one end of the washer pump motor, which will 
allow the motor to slide out of the housing from the other end.

At this point you _could_ rebuild the washer motor by carefully prying 
out the retainer ears holding the pump and brush assembly on the end, 
but in reality (been there, done that) the repair doesn't seem to last. 
You can get a correct Anco replacement motor/pump assembly, including
a new spring steel retainer clip, for about $20 from Trak Auto and
similar discount places.

Reassembly is the reverse of the above, of course. When you slide the
new motor into its place in the plastic cover, be sure to reuse any
foam padding rings found on the old motor, and be sure that the two
electrical spade-lug contacts plug into their sockets at the bottom.
Don't forget the retainer clip, and try not to drop the cover mounting
screws down behind the wheel well. Finally, make sure you don't mix up
the input and output hoses when reattaching.

Full disclosure: This is based on my repairs to an '84 Regal, which to
the best of my knowledge is the same assembly.

>I have not ruled out a problem at the washer lever in the steering 
>column yet.

I think you could go ahead and rule that out. Good luck!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:00:56 -0300
Subject: Re: More Chicago/Fuddruckers Announcements 

>>Ultimately, and hopefully soon, we want to
>>get these photos on a web page so everyone else can see them.
>>
>Send me the photos too, I will put them up on the Olds Page!

*ahem*  Well, yes, yours was the web page I had in mind.  :-)

We're having some stupid communication problems here in the
northwest Chicago suburbs at the moment, plus our office is
packing up to move downtown next week, so I'm trying to get
this done quickly; that may or may not be the case. I think
I have feedback from everyone who was there now -- gotta check
again on that, plus hope that some idiot hasn't gone and packed
up our scanner already...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris J. Adams" <cjadams@micron.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:33:13 -0300
Subject: (no subject)

I am finishing restoration of a '69 Olds Cutlass S w/350 and 4bbl.  I 
converted from the stock 2bbl to an OEM Qjet.  The rebuilt that I 
purchased came with linkage for a manual choke, but I would like to 
replace it with the choke stat.

I found a stat that looks like it will work, but the linkage for the 
secondary butterfly comes off with the manual choke assemble.

I have not had much luck with the local Olds dealer.  What can I do?

Chris Adams
cjadams@micron.net

1969 Cutlass S 2-door hardtop w/2spd

------------------------------

From: "Michael Calvo" <mcalvo@hologic.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:53:49 -0300
Subject: Performance Chapter 

     
     Are there any members of the Oldsmobile Performance Chapter on the 
     list? If so how do you like the chapter? What are the benefits to 
     joining? (newsletter, discounts etc.) I sent a letter to the address 
     posted on Bryceman's page (Springfield Ohio) and never heard anything 
     back. So I was very curious if the chapter was still in operation.
     
     -Michael Calvo
     mcalvo@hologic.com
     
     '68 Cutlass Supreme
     '70 442 W30 4 speed

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:23:52 -0300
Subject: Re: '69 2-bbl to 4-bbl

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Chris J. Adams wrote:
> I am finishing restoration of a '69 Olds Cutlass S w/350 and 4bbl.  I 
> converted from the stock 2bbl to an OEM Qjet.  The rebuilt that I 
> purchased came with linkage for a manual choke, but I would like to 
> replace it with the choke stat.

Don't be too sure about that; the 69 auto choke stat mounts in the intake 
manifold, not on the carb like the 2-bbl setup. Could be that you got 
what you're supposed to have. I know; been there, done that when I did 
the same conversion on my '68.

> I found a stat that looks like it will work, but the linkage for the 
> secondary butterfly comes off with the manual choke assemble.

The stat you need looks something like a matchbox with an open bottom and 
a slot cut in the top; the stat spring mounts underneath and the rod that 
actuates the choke butterfly comes out thru the slot in the cover. I got 
a used one; I hear you can buy new ones from some of the catalog places 
though I haven't actually seen these advertised myself.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:26:07 -0300
Subject: Re: ballast resistor ?

On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Roger Hitson wrote:

> If my OE coil  (68 Cutlass S 350) did not require a ballast resistor, why 
> does my hot dog aftermarket coil (MSD Blaster 2) tell me to wire one in the 
> circuit?

It did, actually; it's the resistor wire in the harness that does the job.

> If I put in the ballast resistor, can I trash the original resistor wire, 
> which by now is pretty brittle and otherwise suspect?

Would assume "yes"; OTOH, I would also assume you could just use the 
resistor wire itself if it was in good shape. My understanding is that 
the resistance is to protect the points, not the coil; it doesn't care 
one way or the other.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu> (by way of 
gbbea000@mail.cycor.ca)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:37:48 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile image 

Hey guys,

	I was at the barbershop about a week ago and picked up a magazine to 
read
while I was sitting there.  On the cover was a real nice looking blue sports
car.  It seems it is being designed by none other than Carroll Shelby.  He
has won a lawsuit against F**d giving him rights to the Cobra name. The new
car is supposed to be a modern Cobra and rumor has it that it will be
powered by an Oldsmobile Aurora engine.  Carroll Shelby has supposedly said
it is the only engine worth condsidering.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Steve

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:36:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Windshield Washer Fluid Pump 

     If that's the same unit as in my '84, then yes the washer pump is a 
     separate unit, it's just built into the wiper unit.  You pretty much 
     have to remove the wiper unit to get at it though.  The washer pump is 
     a small (about 4" high, 1.5" diameter) black cylindrical piece that 
     plugs into the bottom of the wiper unit.  Its held in by a small metal 
     clip.  Remove that and the pump pulls right out.  A new pump cost me 
     $13 at Napa.
     
     When disassembling this, do yourself a favor and don't try to get at 
     the pump by removing the black plastic cover (the one held down by the 
     torx screws) on the front side of the wiper motor, even though that 
     may look like the obvious and easy way to do it.  Just take the whole 
     motor out and pull the pump out the bottom, it's much easier and far 
     less headaches.
     
     By the way, I've sent several postings over the last two days and I 
     haven't seen a one of them come back.  I know my e-mail is working on 
     this end, is something up with the list?  Should I re-send the lost 
     postings?
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Windshield Washer Fluid Pump
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/16/96 6:50 AM


Hi,
     
(86 Olds Cutlass Supreme Coupe)
Windshield washer fluid pump does not seem to be working. Nothing = 
squirts, can't
 even hear it run. While looking under the hood I noticed that the wiper =
pump and
 the washer pump are bolted together or one unit????? If not, that is a =
huge pump
 for just washer fluid! If they are two pumps or separate units in =
theory, can one be replaced without replacing the other? (wipers work). = 
If they are separate, I take it the smaller of the two is for the fluid? =
     
     
I have not ruled out a problem at the washer lever in the steering = 
column yet. I'll be doing that this week. Thanks, Joanne
     
     

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:58:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter 

Hi Michael!
      The Performance Chapter is indeed alive and resides at:
         155 Sesame St.
         Springboro, Oh. 45066
       We have a Performance Nationals every year and 1997's will be August
1&2
       at the Howard Johnsons at the Middletown exit on I-75. Drop us a line!
                                                      Ron Forsee   Master
 65-442man

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:02:08 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

> Honestly, what do you think about the new Oldsmobile symbol that is
> replacing the Rocket?


I like it about as much as I liked "New Coke".  (which is to say I think 
it sucks)  Now Olds logos look just like Toyota/Lexus/etc logos,
sort of a circle with a bit of a squiggle in it.  I guess all the auto
manufactures are going to this kind of logo.  Then again, it's getting
harder and harder to tell one auto maker's cars from anothers, so why
should the logos be any different.  Stupid bubble-mobiles.  Oh how I
long for the days when you could tell who made a car from a distance,
just by its profile.  Automobile bodies used to be works of art, carved
by insipred artists.  Now they're carved by wind tunnel test results.
I, for one, would pay good money far a new car that DIDN'T look like a 
jelly-bean.  Screw aerodynamics!  I want fins!  I want big mean looking
grills!  I want huge chrome bumpers!  I want big fenders and extra 
space under the hood!  I want a trunk that can actually hold all of
your luggage with room to spare!  I want... uumm, why are all of you
looking at me like that?  Oh, yeah, sorry... didn't mean to get off
on a rant like that... 

Why can't they leave a good thing alone?


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:02:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image 

Hi Steve!

      Yes, from what I understand in reading Autoweek Magazine, the
Shelby-Aurora
beast is a done deal. They have yet to announce the car's new name however;
but 
it will not likely be "Cobra".


                                            Ron Forsee   Master 65-442man

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:16:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image 

Yes.  I think it is great that this is happening.

Like a couple of people mentioned in the last few days, why isn't Olds 
taking advantage of their racing presence and victories?  All the Warren 
Johnson victories, even the drag racing victories now that Olds has pulled 
corporate sponsorship, and especially the road racing victories with 
modified Auroras!  Almost no one knows about these things, and it seems the 
public's interest in the retro and nostalgia would warrant some promotional 
use to get people into the showrooms.

It's hard to believe they would not take advantage of this.  Maybe they are 
being held back at the corporate level by you know who's lack of confidence 
in their product.  Comparing GM ads to the competition is a joke.  Their ad 
agency either doesn't have a clue or are constrained to idealess creativity 
(does that make any sense?).

I believe Pontiac has been positioned as the "performance division".  What 
image is being focused upon by the other divisions?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------
Hey guys,

 I was at the barbershop about a week ago and picked up a magazine to read
while I was sitting there.  On the cover was a real nice looking blue sports
car.  It seems it is being designed by none other than Carroll Shelby.  He
has won a lawsuit against F**d giving him rights to the Cobra name. The new
car is supposed to be a modern Cobra and rumor has it that it will be
powered by an Oldsmobile Aurora engine.  Carroll Shelby has supposedly said
it is the only engine worth condsidering.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Steve

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:22:49 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> 
> Now Olds logos look just like Toyota/Lexus/etc logos,
> sort of a circle with a bit of a squiggle in it.

Yup.

> I want fins!  I want big mean looking grills!  I want huge chrome 
> bumpers!  I want big fenders and extra space under the hood!  I want a 
> trunk that can actually hold all of your luggage with room to spare!

More, more!  Louder, louder!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:27:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image

R4C442@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Yes, from what I understand in reading Autoweek Magazine, the
> Shelby-Aurora beast is a done deal.  They have yet to announce the 
> car's new name however; but it will not likely be "Cobra".

How 'bout...  Hmmm...  Dare I say it?

         T O R O N A D O !

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:39:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image 

Dig this Mike....."Cobraura"

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:50:52 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image 

Or COBRANADO!!  Yuck!!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------------
How 'bout...  Hmmm...  Dare I say it?

         T O R O N A D O !

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:49:41 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

> tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:

> > Now Olds logos look just like Toyota/Lexus/etc logos,
> > sort of a circle with a bit of a squiggle in it.


Has anyone seen the new(er) Chrysler logos? They went back to an original 
design/logo to 
the 30's/40's. It is a round medalian/crest done tastefully in gold and what 
appears to 
be an inlayed ceramic looking material. VERY refreshing, yet nostalgic in 
appearance. If 
you wait long enough, everything old is new again!!!  Hey Mike, don't throw 
out your 
Saturday Night polyester leisure suits yet! You may be able to make a come 
back fashion 
statement someday!  (:

Sparky

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:00:33 -0300
Subject: Re: "1" exhaust heads 

The "1" exhaust manifolds would be from a small block, although I've been 
told that these (the #1's, 4's or 5') were sometimes used on big block 
cars.  Blocks, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds all follow the "letter 
is a big block, number is a small block" coding system.

If the motor is free, worth the $300.

I would be interested in knowing what car the motor originally was in.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------
My friend found himself a '69 olds Cutless supreme that has been 
modified with:  
455 "F" code motor
"C" cylinder heads 
"1" exhaust manifolds
TH350 trans
traction bars
AC- but missing most of necessary parts
PS, PB, etc.
 The car is in real need of work, it was parked under a tree for 
5 years.  Needs interior too.  But for $300! 
 The only thing I couldn't positively ID were the "1" exhaust 
manifolds.  Please help.
Thanks
Brad 
'70 442

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:35:39 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Another Question HEADS F,D,H,C,and E's 

     If I hear of anybody cutting a "spare" D head in half just to see 
     what's inside, I'm going to have to report them to PETO (People for 
     Ethical Treatment of Oldsmobiles).  Or maybe I'll just send Guido down 
     to have a "talk" with them.
     
     Don't the D heads also make more power because of the filled heat 
     crossover?  Not only does it make the intake run cooler, but it's 
     supposed to help flow a bit having that filled in.
     
     Has anybody here used Mondello's street porting?  Did it make any 
     difference?  Most importantly, have you compared it to anyone elses 
     porting job?
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: RE: Another Question HEADS F,D,H,C,and E's
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/14/96 5:22 PM
     
You couldn't be more right. I have a flow bench in my shop and have = 
tested all of the Old s BB heads. The only difference is the valve = sizes, 
the heads all flow within 5% of each other which means next to no = hp 
increase between them. The big valve heads flow a bit more due to the = 
large valve and nothing else. One exception to the rule are the D heads  = 
make more power, but this is due to the smaller combustion chamber not = 
the fact that the head can flow more. Anyone with a real interest in = head 
flow should cut them in half ( that is junk heads) to see for = yourselves 
they are identical.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:35:43 -0300
Subject: Re: '87 olds cutlass 350 swap 

     I'd go with the 350.  The 307 H.O is only 180 hp, 245 ft-lbs torque.  
     With a good intake, exhaust, upped CR, and maybe ported heads you 
     might get 250hp out of it.  You could get more, but streetability and 
     computer problems would result.  The 350 can be made to do 250hp 
     easily.
     
     The 307 H.O. engine is nearly identical to the regular one, but with a 
     longer duration camshaft w/ matching valve springs, a different 
     harmonic balancer, dual mufflers, an aluminum intake, and a specially 
     tuned Quadrajet, along with a differently calibrated computer.  If you 
     go this route, a looser torque converter (2400) and lower gears 
     (3.23-3.73) are recommended to take advantage of the new power curve.  
     I can get you the GM part numbers for all these things, but IMHO 
     you're better off going with aftermarket parts.
     
     I don't know of any TPI systems for Olds engines.  You could probably 
     get a throttle body system to work with an Edelbrock Performer RPM 
     manifold (which has a Holley bolt pattern).  Also, Cadillac had a 
     primitive (and not very reliable) injection system on one of their 
     olds blocks in the mid 70's.  It's been discussed here before, but I 
     don't remember the details.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: '87 olds cutlass 350 swap
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/11/96 11:55 PM
     
    I have an '87 olds cutlass supreme and am thinking of swapping a 350 in
place of the terribly slow stock 307. I would like to get about 300hp out of 
it but I don't think the stock transmission can handle it. I have also 
thought about putting on a TPI system but I'm not sure if they make any for 
an olds 350 or 307 for that matter. Would the TPI system be compatible with 
my stock computer?
    If this is not possible, would it be better to just rebuild the 307 and
turn it into a 307 H/O? I don't know what the differences between these two 
engines except that one is more powerful. Could someone tell me if they know 
what the 307 H/O engine is made up of and possibly how much horsepower it 
produces? 
     
  Andy
     
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
     
   '87 olds cutlass supreme
   '88 olds cutlass supreme classic brougham
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:35:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Need 83 Hurst info *urgent* 

     I'd grab that guy right up!  $2700 is a good deal for a complete car.  
     Even if it's a bit rough, as long as the rough/missing parts aren't 
     the H/O parts it's okay.
     
     Posi was not standard, but 3.73:1 gears were standard.  If there's a 
     small metal tag under one of the cover bolts it's definitely a posi.  
     If not, it still could be, but you'll have to get the numbers off of 
     the passenger front side of the axle and look them up in a manual to 
     tell.
     
     No T-tops could be a "good thing" depending upon your POV.  It's 
     lighter without them, and less body flex means better traction and 
     handling.  Also for a daily driver, it's nice not to have to mess with 
     leaks and wind noise from bad weatherstripping.  There were less H/O's 
     made without T-tops than with, so it's rarer, but still not more 
     valuable.
     
     To see if it's a real McCoy, check the VIN number the engine digit (I 
     think it's the 7th or 9th one?) should be a 9 rather than a Y.  On the 
     black plate just below the drivers side windshield wiper you should 
     also see W40 stamped somewhere on there.
     
     Smoke is probably valve covers.  Just replaced the gasket on mine too.
     
     Good luck!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:35:47 -0300
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds) 

     Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in 
     a picture of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) 
     at the same time.  Think they'd get the clue?
     
     I'm game if anyone else is!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds)
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/12/96 9:06 AM


 An an Olds note, I am trying to get my 80 442 in Car Craft, might be a long 
shot since the car is strictly Olds and not Chevy.
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:35:52 -0300
Subject: Demolition man update 

     Since the Olds in Demolition man has been brought up several times 
     here, I saw an opportunity to help put the debate to rest this 
     weekend.
     
     I went to a Sci-fi convention and met a guy who does props and SFX in 
     Hollywood.  He worked on Demolition man and was also an extra bad guy 
     in the movie.  He said the car they used was totalled when it went 
     into the fountain, it was taken to a junkyard afterwards.  He 
     remembers fiberglass everywhere, so I'm guessing at least the hood was 
     genuine.  His outfit didn't build the Old's (they did help with the 
     other futuristic cars, but mostly did guns, props and some sets) so 
     this isn't the "final word", but he said to his knowledge there was 
     only one car.  He never saw more than one at a time, and every time he 
     saw it, it looked the same to him.
     
     Someone on here mentioned once that they used 3 cars, a genuine one, a 
     cosmetically externally identical one, and a junker.  This still could 
     be true, if they only had one on the set at any one time.
     
     I also heard lots of other good stories about Stalone and Bullock, but 
     they're not appropriate to an Olds group.
     
     Tom L.
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:08:27 -0300
Subject: Re: motor oil? 

>I've got a question for you.  My friend is having a rebuilt motor 
>put in his  '83 Cutlass Supreme-- AutoZone warranty work {its his 
>4th AZ motor this year}.

Ouch. Sounds like the warranty is better than the engine(s). Noted
for future reference...

>The motor is the Buick 3.8 liter V6.

My '82 with the same engine got Valvoline 5W-30 in winter, 10W-30
in summer, according to the temperature ranges shown in the manual.
I changed it every 1500 miles, which worked out to be about every 
other month or every third month at the rate I drove it. I had the
car from 49K through 129K (approx.) over eight years before selling
it; the engine was never opened up and was always fine. (It had the
intake-manifold -- or somewhere -- slow oil consumption all its life.)

>The motor will have his 4bbl. on it, 

That would be interesting.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:13:38 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Travis sez:

> > Honestly, what do you think about the new Oldsmobile symbol that is
> > replacing the Rocket?
> 
> 

<SNIP>

> ...  Stupid bubble-mobiles.  Oh how I
> long for the days when you could tell who made a car from a distance,
> just by its profile.  Automobile bodies used to be works of art, carved
> by insipred artists.  Now they're carved by wind tunnel test results.

<SNIP>
> 
> Why can't they leave a good thing alone?
> 

Yeah, and while we're at it, whatever happened to airplanes that we could tell
apart at a glance, like Fokker Tri-planes, Jennys and Wright Flyers??


(Homer Simpson V.O.): D'oh!  Stupid technological advances!!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:20:20 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

> Has anyone seen the new(er) Chrysler logos? They went back to an original 
design/logo to 
> the 30's/40's. It is a round medalian/crest done tastefully in gold and what 
appears to 
> be an inlayed ceramic looking material. VERY refreshing, yet nostalgic in 
appearance.

Yeah, too bad Chrysl*r can't go back to the decent engineering and component 
manufacturing
they had up until the 60's at the very latest.  Just ask my sister about her 
s***box
Le Barren (of quality) ragtop.  Even the '97 Sebring ragtop I had rented when 
I was in
Cape Canaveral on business was a worthless pile of pig iron and plastic.  the 
rental place
warned us that when the top was down on the Sebrings, we had to roll the rear 
windows down
too, as they had a tendency to be *ripped off* the car by the wind.

> If you wait long enough, everything old is new again!!!  Hey Mike, don't 
throw out your 
> Saturday Night polyester leisure suits yet! You may be able to make a come 
back fashion 
> statement someday!  (:

Not to mention those Beta and 8-track tapes :)



Tim (Anybody Got Any Abba Records?) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:23:10 -0300
Subject: FW: Oldsmobile image

>Dig this Mike....."Cobraura"

If their ad men continue in the same vein that got us the new logo, they may
just call it the "Auoroacob"...

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:23:14 -0300
Subject: FW: ballast resistor ?

Greg Beaulieu wote that Roger Hitson wrote:

>> If my OE coil  (68 Cutlass S 350) did not require a ballast resistor, why 
>> does my hot dog aftermarket coil (MSD Blaster 2) tell me to wire one in 
>>the
circuit?

>It did, actually; it's the resistor wire in the harness that does the job.

>> If I put in the ballast resistor, can I trash the original resistor wire, 
> >which by now is pretty brittle and otherwise suspect?

>Would assume "yes"; OTOH, I would also assume you could just use the 
>resistor wire itself if it was in good shape. My understanding is that 
>the resistance is to protect the points, not the coil; it doesn't care 
>one way or the other.

I pretty certain that the resistance wire was necessary to drop the voltage to
the coil after the engine was running and could stay "lit" on a lower voltage
spark...the condenser is used to "protect" the points.

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee,FL

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:39:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image

R4C442@aol.com wrote:

> Dig this Mike....."Cobraura"

David Brown wrote:
> 
> Or COBRANADO!!  Yuck!!

You guys are sick.  Funny but sick.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:51:40 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> 
> Yeah, and while we're at it, whatever happened to airplanes that we 
> could tell apart at a glance, like Fokker Tri-planes, Jennys and Wright 
> Flyers??

That's a bit extreme, isn't it?  I can tell the average Pontiac from the 
average Oldsmobile but I can't tell the average Oldsmobile from the 
average Buick (without looking at the logo).  It seems that most of the 
present day Olds designers are:

1) of the opinion that aerodynamic = bland.
2) think that standing out in a crowd is bad.
3) are from Japan.
4) all of the above.

> (Homer Simpson V.O.): D'oh!  Stupid technological advances!!

Stupid lack of imagination!!

David Brown wrote:

> Like a couple of people mentioned in the last few days, why isn't Olds
> taking advantage of their racing presence and victories?

You'd think heads would roll if they mentioned "success".

The 66 Toro and Mike (who LIKED Harry Gant)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:59:14 -0300
Subject: Olds show

Hi,

  Does any one know any specifics about the Olds show in Glendale, CA this
  coming Sunday?
  
Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com
(68 442 Hardtop)

p.s.

  This is my first posting :-)

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:15:07 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image 

Or there is the "Shelranado" or "Shelora".  I think the Delranado name that 
was 
ditched for Delmont is better!  I really, really hope none of these names make 
it!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------

R4C442@aol.com wrote:

> Dig this Mike....."Cobraura"

David Brown wrote:
> 
> Or COBRANADO!!  Yuck!!

You guys are sick.  Funny but sick.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:05:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds in Car Craft

I like that Idea. We need to coordinate a date to send them so Car Craft
gets them all at once. They might go into shock with all those Olds around
tough.

At 06:35 AM 10/16/96 -0300, Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>     Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in 
>     a picture of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) 
>     at the same time.  Think they'd get the clue?
>     
>     I'm game if anyone else is!
>     
>     Tom L.
>
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:53:46 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image 

R4C442@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Yes, from what I understand in reading Autoweek Magazine, the
> Shelby-Aurora beast is a done deal.  They have yet to announce the 
> car's new name however; but it will not likely be "Cobra".
     
How 'bout...  Hmmm...  Dare I say it?
     
         T O R O N A D O !
     
The 66 Toro and Mike

     The problem is that you'd have to drive in reverse all the time, since 
     the car will be RWD!
     
     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     
- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication 
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
     
     

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:52:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile image 

The new car is supposed to be a modern Cobra and rumor has it that it will 
be powered by an Oldsmobile Aurora engine.  Carroll Shelby has supposedly 
said it is the only engine worth condsidering.  Has anyone else heard about 
this?
     
Steve
     
     
     Steve,
     
     I posted excerpts from Autoweek a couple of weeks ago announcing the 
     formal signing of an agreement between Olds and Shelby to supply 
     engines for the car.  I can forward this to you directly if you send 
     me your email address.
     
     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:30:36 -0300
Subject: Mondello-rama 

Hooray, the Mondello order showed up! The roller rocker set and valve springs
were backordered, tho. :^(

Boy, the Mondello HV oil pump sure is nice! Can you say BEEFY?

Went with the JM22-25-10 cam. Joe sez it'll be fine with my 3.55 rear gear.
I called him right away to confirm this'd work when I realized that my Texas
rear end wasn't a 3.73 after all. Think the 3.55'll be a nicer gear, anyway.

Hey, will my C head valvesprings work on 7a heads? 7a's have deep seats, C's
do not. Still work?

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:43:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
>  The problem is that you'd have to drive in reverse all the time, since
>  the car will be RWD!

Bummer...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:52:53 -0300
Subject: Testing....

I haven't received a message from this group in several days...

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:01:40 -0300
Subject: Daddy's Olds 

>Katana72            It's NOT your daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah...too bad!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:01:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question 

>My '69 does this as well.  I'd always just attributed it to
>the shape of the key.  It looks something like this --
>
>                    __________
>                    |        |
>     _______________|        | 
>     |___                    |
>         \______          /\ |
>                \___      \/ |
>                    |        |
>                    |        |
>                    ----------

That's roughly the profile of my key -- as opposed to the other one.  Maybe
that's the reason it pulls out.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:07:25 -0300
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds) 

>
>     Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in 
>     a picture of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) 
>     at the same time.  Think they'd get the clue?
>     
>     I'm game if anyone else is!

     Cut-n-Paste from Bryce's page???  We'd fill their whole book!  Let's do
it!  If we all left a note in there about www.442.com, maybe they'd get the
hint to go check that out, too!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:12:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image 

>>  The problem is that you'd have to drive in reverse all the time, since
>>  the car will be RWD!
>
     How 'bout an all wheel drive Toro?  Just a minimal amount of torque
transfer to the rear so the fronts still smoke the right way!  Would this
still work for it?  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:07:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Demolition man update 

>
>     Since the Olds in Demolition man has been brought up several times 
>     here, I saw an opportunity to help put the debate to rest this 
>     weekend.
>     
>     I went to a Sci-fi convention and met a guy who does props and SFX in 
>     Hollywood.  He worked on Demolition man and was also an 
>     extra bad guy in the movie. 

    Was he "Extra bad?"         

 He said the car they used was totalled when it went 
>     into the fountain, it was taken to a junkyard afterwards.  He 
>     remembers fiberglass everywhere, so I'm guessing at least the hood was 
>     genuine. 

     Ouch, that IS extra bad!

                                   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:01:29 -0300
Subject: RE: Breaks again 

>One reason for stone-hard brake-pedal is missing
>or insufficient vacuum.
>Just disconnect the vacuum line and start the
>motor. If it is doing allright, then You should
>be able to HEAR the hiss. Block the hose end
>with Your finger and check that Your hose does
>not collapse.

Checked that...all seemed OK.

>The vacuum tube might also be too flexible and
>could therefore be sucked flat thus not passing
>the vacuum.

Didn't think about that.  What is the proper type of hose?  Fuel line will
collpase, I assume.  It's not intended for vacuum.  Is there a special type
of vacuum hose to use for that?
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:29:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image

buehner wrote:
> 
> >>  The problem is that you'd have to drive in reverse all the time, 
> >>  since the car will be RWD!
> 
> how 'bout an all wheel drive Toro?  Just a minimal amount of torque
> transfer to the rear so the fronts still smoke the right way!  Would 
> this still work for it?  :)

Work's for me!   :)   Whataya say Quad-guys?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:01:33 -0300
Subject: Re: W31/Rallye 350 F85 

>Anyone know the production numbers for F85 Rallye 350 post coupes?

>From Year One catalog #R325...

"These Cutlass models were equipped with the Rallye 350 package.

F-85 Club coupe          1,020
Cutlass Club coupe         160
Cutlass S Holiday coupe  2,367
Total Production         3,547"

Too bad it's not a Cutlass Club coupe...it would be really rare.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:38:30 -0300
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds) 

>     Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in 
>     a picture of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) 
>     at the same time.  Think they'd get the clue?
>     I'm game if anyone else is!

Yeah, lets do it!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:38:33 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol 

>Tim (Anybody Got Any Abba Records?) Churchill
Yeah, me.  You'd be surprised at what I have in the vinyl collection...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:45:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter

Michael,
It's not in Springfield, Ohio, it's in Springboro, Ohio.

Mailing address:
 
Performance Chapter
155 Sesame St.
Springboro, Ohio
45066

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Jeff Tiedke <jmtiedke@students.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:49:13 -0300
Subject: Air Cleaner Decals 

Hey Guys,

This is my first post, so please excuse me if any of my questions have been
asked before.  I own a '79 Hurst/Olds that I'm trying to sell, and need to
know a few things.  Does anyone know what the correct decal on the air
cleaner is for a H/O in '79?  Is it just the "Oldmobile 350" decal that is
on the '77s?  Second, were most of these cars well optioned??  Mine is
missing T-Tops, but has PW, PL, P-seat, Rear-Defog, Air, tilt, cruise,
bumper guards, and cassette.  Is most of this standard epuipment on a H/O??
If not, do any of these options make the car more desirable than another
H/O?  Thanks for any help.  It's very appreciated.

Jeff Tiedke
'79 Hurst/Olds

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:55:34 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

> I like it about as much as I liked "New Coke".  (which is to say I think 
> it sucks)  Now Olds logos look just like Toyota/Lexus/etc logos,
> sort of a circle with a bit of a squiggle in it.  I guess all the auto
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                 
> manufactures are going to this kind of logo. 
 

	Then again, Ford has been doing that since day one!  AAAAAAAAAAAA!


				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:57:36 -0300
Subject: New Olds logo 

        I've got no problems with it...matter of fact I think it's pretty
cool. Olds is going for a new image...which is fine with me...the eighties
and early nineties were not kind to Olds.  And because the new cars have
nearly nothing in common with the great Olds of past (pre-80's), I don't
think there's any point in keeping the same logo.  And besides...it's still
a rocket on the new logo...that's cool.  

As far as new Olds go, I think they've got an exciting future...here's the
line up of semi-new and semi-exciting cars:

New Cutlass:  Plain Jane four door based on the new Chevy
Malibu...uninspiring but practical.

A replacement for the Achieva in 98:  I think this car will be called
something like the Alero...but don't quote me.  Havn't seen any spy shots,
but could be neat looking from recent Olds styling trends of the Aurora and
the...

Intrigue:  An Aurora-like car for market between the Aurora and Cutlass
(88/98 replacment?).  Upscale, good-looking, and a fairly spirited
performer, from what I gather.

>From what I remember there will also be a two-door Cutlass of sporting
nature which will probably be of the same platform as the Intrigue (same as
Pontiac Grand Prix and the new Buick Century...two nice new cars).  Not sure
if it will carry the Cutlass moniker.

By the '99 model year, Olds will only have one model name that has been
carried over from it's history...the Cutlass.  By then, the new upscale Olds
image should be firmly in place.

- -Aaron  

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:14:09 -0300
Subject: Rubber body mounts 

>>>>You should probably pick up a set on new rubber body mounts too since the
old ones will be worn out and dry rotted.<<<<

Don't be too quick on that.  A few months ago a list member described how the
body mount rubbers he ordered from year one lasted one year (pun intended).
:-)

If the stockers are not rotted, replace any rusted bolts and use them over
IMHO. Taking the body off _again_ would be a major royal pain to say the
least.

Similar to "if it ain't broke don't fix it."  Particularly when the quality
of resotration parts may not be equal to NOS/original.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:14:58 -0300
Subject: '67 442 

>>>>>Had a sticker that said Command Climate 
Control or something like that.  What is that?  Is it standard on the 
'67?  Or is it a California thing?

          This is the Turnpike Cruiser option.  Basically a 400 ci 442 
          motor with a 2 bbl (!?) carb and an air cleaner designed to heat 
          the intake charge (by drawing air from a stove around the exhaust 
          manifold) to assure complete atomization of the fuel.  Sort of 
          anti-OAI.  <<<<<

For '67 the CCC and Turnpike Cruise (became the SX option in some later
years) are two different options.  The CCC (for Climatic Combustion Control
option) was a precursor to the mandatory preheating of engine air as part of
pollution controls on later cars.  Kinda like a '60s beta test at the
consumer's expense.  It was also not limited to the 2bbl carb.  I know
because my '67 was ordered with this option and the 442 came with a Q-Jet -
period.

The turnpike cruise option was separate from the 442.  They consisted of, as
you say, a 2bbl carb, TH400 and a long rear end gear.  About 2.7 something -
it's in my "library" somewhere. I don't know if the CCC was available on the
t. cruiser.  Anyone got a '67 order book?

They were different options.  If the car is a 442 it could have the CCC but
not the turnpike cruise option.  If it's a turnpike cruise option it isn't a
442 and would have a 2bbl carb.  Both items are rare.  The CCC system, if it
is complete (including the stamped steel stoves over the passenger side
header pipe - long sucker, about 12") is worth a few bucks to collectors that
want every option offered (even if it sucked).  I trashed mine pretty quick
in '67. The 2 openings, one on each side facing front,  that allowed air to
the carburetor were about the size of a Chunky candy bar.  I was surprised
the engine ran at all at wide open throttle!

FYI, the carb for the CCC was a different id than the standard.  A little
leaner.  Finding the complete CCC system and original carb would be unusual.

 >>>>>         It certainly meets my criteria, which is a V-8 of at least 
          400 cid, mounted north-south and driving the rear wheels.  
          In fact, Mike, I think it would be most appropriate for 
          you to buy this car, as it was a 67 442 used in the Olds 
          ads to compare to the late model quad 442.  You may recall 
          that the ad claimed that the Q422 could outrun the 67 442 
          (which presumably _was_ Your Father's Oldsmobile) in the 
          quarter mile (or maybe it was 0-60).  I've always felt 
          that the Turnpike Cruiser was the only 67 442 for which 
          that would be true!<<<<<<

Whoa, wait a minute. No Q442 would outrun _my_ '67 442, then or now!  I
clocked mine at 0-60 in less than 6 seconds back then and quarter mile times
in the high 12's-low 13's.  That was on sticky street tires and _no_ other
mods than headers and tuning.  My car IS my kid's father's Oldsmobile!

BTW, in my circles those "Father's Olds" commercials cost Olds a lot of
emotional capital.  I guess the ad agency (and worse Olds marketing) forgot
about things like the Rocket 88/98 engine, J-2, Toro, JetFire, 442, W-30,
etc.  Dumb idea.  History shows it didn't do much for sales.


Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:16:00 -0300
Subject: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc 

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't once saw an Aurora TV commercial with Irv
Hoerr or Darin Brassfield blowing the doors off a Viper... Instead they
show some idiot on a couch spinning in space with an Aurora. How about
showing Wayne Taylor's WSC Oldsmobile powered machine leaving a Ferrari in
the dust? or when Olds was heavy into drag racing did you ever see Warren
Johnson give a plug for the Cutlass? Nope, Nope and Nope. But you'll see
plenty of good' ol boys yapp'in about how great the Monte Carlo is. It's
all very frustrating if you ask me. Comments?<<<<<<<<<<<<<

A member of the Olds Club if Florida is also a "Field Executive" for Olds.
 That's kinda like the older term of regional manager. Anyway this fellow
knows what is going on at Olds.

I had a talk with him a couple weeks ago on the fact that Olds just flat
doesn't appeal to the kind of people represented, IMHO, by the folks on this
list.  For instance, where is there a fast, sexy 2-door?  Answer: "The sales
of 2-doors are so small that it isn't cost effective to market them. Olds is
not going to make any after a few more years.  It will all be 4-door models."
 Really, just what is a Lincoln Mark VIII.  "Oh, that's a different price
range."  There was more but you get the idea. In spite of being a very nice
guy that restores late 60's Cutlass', himself, he just doesn't get it.  I am
sure he is repeating the corporate attitude. 

The only "good" news, and I'm not sure if it really is, is that a V-6 version
of the Aurora will be in the model replacing the Cutlass.  Yes _replacing_
the Cutlass!  On the bright side, maybe the V-6 can be replaced with the
Aurora V-8?  That might get my attention, and $$$.

I was once told that nobody in the auto industry spends more money on market
research that GM.  And they also ignore every bit of it!.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:15:56 -0300
Subject: "pull the key option" 

>>>> Sorry, Dave (wow...2001 flashback just then), but the "pull the 
        key out with the engine running" trick ended in the early 
        sixties due to rising auto theft.  <<<<

This was never intended.  I've driven Olds and other GM's from the mid 50's.
 None allowed removal of the key while the ignition was on - until the key
retaining mechanism wore out.

My '87 Jeep Cherokee with a GM steering column now allows this as well.  I
can remove the key in any position because after 9 years and 120,000 miles
it's just worn.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:54:06 -0300
Subject: New Olds Logo 

> > Honestly, what do you think about the new Oldsmobile symbol that is
> > replacing the Rocket?
> 
> Sucks.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Well, at least it's *still* a rocket.  Sorta.  If you squint
and jiggle your head while lookin' at it.<<<<<<<<<<<<

A rocket?  Where?  It's an "O" with a squiggle some artist thought looked
good.  My friend in Olds said they designed a number of alternate designs and
asked a panel of yuppies (oops, sorry if that means you :-)) and what we got
was the winner.  They weren't told what the logo was for, just which appealed
to them the most.

What a way to run a .............insert appropriate subject of your choice.
 Mine aren't p.c.

Mike's right.  It sucks.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:31:39 -0300
Subject: Re: "pull the key option"

I hate to disagree with Bob Handren, but I'm pretty sure that pulling the 
key out with the switch on *was* a design feature on certain GM ignition 
switches in the early '60s at least. Two reasons: 1) on my '64 I can do 
it and the bezel shows both a "lock" position and a separate "off" 
position. Key can be removed in either position and if you do so in the 
"off" position you can still start the car.

2) I dimly recalled this in a '63 Impala my brother bought new. Thought 
it was neat at the time. When i got my '64 and it had a similar switch 
all the memories came back.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:19:49 -0300
Subject: Project: Olds Craft 

     Okay, it sounds like everything thinks it's worth a try.  So, how 
     about we aim for mailing our pictures around December 1st (if ya wanna 
     get technical the 2nd since there's no mail the 1st).  That should 
     give everyone plenty of time to get a nice picture or three of their 
     favorite olds (or three) ready, along with a quick description and a 
     plug for the list/web page of some sort.
     
     We need to work out the details of the "plug".  Perhaps something to 
     the effect that "This car was restored with technical assistance from 
     the Internet Olds list and Bryceman's Olds Page at 
     http://www.442.com".  How does that sound?  I'd love to snip at them 
     and say there's more to life than Chevy-Mustang-Camaro, but we 
     probably wouldn't get printed if we weren't at least civil.
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds)
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/16/96 1:50 PM

Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in a 
picture
of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) at the same time.  
Think they'd get the clue?  I'm game if anyone else is!

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:36:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Rubber body mounts 

Yeah, *ear *one must be selling recycled rubber body mounts!  Dry rot no 
extra charge!  Try Performance Suspension Technologies (PST) or the 
polygraphic body mount company.  I recall they offered rubber OEM 
replacements along with their more expensive polyXXX bushings.  Ask about 
their warranty.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------
Don't be too quick on that.  A few months ago a list member described how the
body mount rubbers he ordered from year one lasted one year (pun intended).
:-)

If the stockers are not rotted, replace any rusted bolts and use them over
IMHO. Taking the body off _again_ would be a major royal pain to say the
least.

Similar to "if it ain't broke don't fix it."  Particularly when the quality
of resotration parts may not be equal to NOS/original.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Victoria L. Albritton 813-773-3181" <ALBRITV@mail.firn.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:49:12 -0300
Subject: Florida Cars

You may know about this item - but what the heck.  I am wanting to join in 
the chat.  A great place for parts in Winter Haven Florida is Specialty 
Olds  at 311 Commerce Court.  Fellow is very helpful and has excellent 
inventory of parts.  Tel 800-622-2024.  Will send a catalog.  No, I'm not 
on commission - just want to be helpful.  Can give directions to place if 
needed.  Bye.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:57:11 -0300
Subject: Re: "pull the key option"

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> I hate to disagree with Bob Handren, but I'm pretty sure that pulling 
> the key out with the switch on *was* a design feature on certain GM 
> ignition switches in the early '60s at least.

If I remember correctly, you're both right.  There were switches with a 
separate off and lock position and were so marked.  Removing the key in 
the lock position locked it (duh).  Removing the key in the off position 
allowed the car to be started without the key.  But most did not have 
this feature.

In any event, if you can remove the key in the run position...
that's NOT a feature!

The 66 Toro and 49 Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:02:30 -0300
Subject: RE: Forwarded Message

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What are you reving that engine too? What type of gasket? Firts thing I 'd 
recommend is to re check everything for trueness.

- ----------
From: 	Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, October 16, 1996 6:21 AM
To: 	Oldsmobile
Subject: 	Forwarded Message

Jeff Stanish sent this but it bounced back to me. The reason for this is 
that the word "Help" was in the subject line and majordomo interprets 
this as a request for admin service. Same thing will happen if the word 
is in the first few lines of the message it seems. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Subject: HELP AGAIN HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS!

I sent out this message four days ago so if you've seen it ignore it.  It 
didnot appear on the OLDS net.

I rebuilt a '69 455ci .040 over.  I can't keep head gaskets sealed.

I had every thing straightened heads, block ,and manifold.  Used 
Permatorque BLUESs no additional sealer,  followed torque sequence and 
spec , etc.

Any ideas?? Torque to 300lbs, use forma gasket?

Later, Jeff






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------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:05:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Project: Olds Craft 

>So, how 
>     about we aim for mailing our pictures around December 1st (if ya wanna 
>     get technical the 2nd since there's no mail the 1st).

Can you post an address, and tell us what they want for a description (how
many words, content, etc)?  

>     We need to work out the details of the "plug".  Perhaps something to 
>     the effect that "This car was restored with technical assistance from 
>     the Internet Olds list and Bryceman's Olds Page at 
>     http://www.442.com".  How does that sound?

Sounds fine.

>  I'd love to snip at them 
>     and say there's more to life than Chevy-Mustang-Camaro, but we 
>     probably wouldn't get printed if we weren't at least civil.

Probably.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:14:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Project: Olds Craft 

Olds Craft - ha! love that.  "there's more to life than 
Chevy-Mustang-Camaro"  That's a great title.  Sort of the "other side of 
life".  This is a great idea, we've got to do it, but civilized.  Mission 
"OC" has begun!

It would be great to get a bunch of Olds in the "Reader's Garage", and 
questions section also.

The CC "web watch" column has gotton pretty lame lately.  The first column 
featured a Nova page with Brycemen's page listed in the links.  Have been 
anticipating 442.com showing up some month.  I was hoping they would 
feature a page per manufacturer, but no!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------------
     Okay, it sounds like everything thinks it's worth a try.  So, how 
     about we aim for mailing our pictures around December 1st (if ya wanna 
     get technical the 2nd since there's no mail the 1st).  That should 
     give everyone plenty of time to get a nice picture or three of their 
     favorite olds (or three) ready, along with a quick description and a 
     plug for the list/web page of some sort.
     
     We need to work out the details of the "plug".  Perhaps something to 
     the effect that "This car was restored with technical assistance from 
     the Internet Olds list and Bryceman's Olds Page at 
     http://www.442.com".  How does that sound?  I'd love to snip at them 
     and say there's more to life than Chevy-Mustang-Camaro, but we 
     probably wouldn't get printed if we weren't at least civil.
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds)
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/16/96 1:50 PM

Hey, what do you think would happen if we got everyone here to send in a 
picture
of their Olds to Car Craft (for the Readers Rides section?) at the same time.  
Think they'd get the clue?  I'm game if anyone else is!

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:27:36 -0300
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds)

I'm in!

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:41:12 -0300
Subject: IRC Chat tonight?

Are there still IRC chats on Wednesday?

Are they on irc.another.org (#Oldsmobile)?

What time?

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:53:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> ...they show some idiot on a couch spinning in space with an Aurora. 

> "The sales of 2-doors are so small that it isn't cost effective to 
> market them. Olds is not going to make any after a few more years."

> ...he just doesn't get it.  

No, they don't.  Oldsmobile had a reputation of building fast, powerful 
roadcars.  Look at the 442s.  They had an eye for inovation -- look at 
the prototypes on Bryceman's pages.  Look at the Toronado.  But sometime 
during the gas crunch, a part of Oldsmobile quietly died.  Maybe it was 
corporate spirit, maybe it was dreams.  But it was gone.

So they started producing GM's FWD cookie cutter cars with wimpy motors. 
Everthing that Old was... went.

> I was once told that nobody in the auto industry spends more money on 
> market research that GM.  And they also ignore every bit of it!.

So now some "bright" boys are trying to perk things by changing the 
typeface of the name every few years, using a new logo, and maybe even 
getting rid of the old name altogether.  Great idea.  And people wonder 
why I call them "marketing weenies".  Ever notice how long the Chevy 
bowtie and the Ford oval has been around?

I've got news for you boys: you've lost market share because you forgot 
who your market was and starting building crap.

Tell you what.  Why not bring back "Your Father's Oldsmobile"?  But this 
time let's have "Papa" Bob Handren burning up a 1/4 mile.  At least Dad's 
Olds had balls!

And in the end the cars will all become Auroras.  And they'll scratch 
their heads and wonder why few so people recognize the name.

Ya listening Olds?

The 66 OLDSMOBILE! Toronado and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:01:06 -0300
Subject: Re: (LONG) Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc

Mike Frederick wrote:

> No, they don't.  Oldsmobile had a reputation of building fast, powerful
> roadcars.  Look at the 442s.  They had an eye for inovation -- look at
> the prototypes on Bryceman's pages.  Look at the Toronado.  But sometime
> during the gas crunch, a part of Oldsmobile quietly died.  Maybe it was
> corporate spirit, maybe it was dreams.  But it was gone.

Before that, look at the 1950 Olds. It won every stock car race in sight for 2 
years. 
And that was when stock car MEANT stock car!!!! You can even go back to the 
1934 Olds 
with the (at the time) powerful and dependable straight 8. 

> So now some "bright" boys are trying to perk things by changing the
> typeface of the name every few years, using a new logo, and maybe even
> getting rid of the old name altogether.  Great idea.  And people wonder
> why I call them "marketing weenies".  Ever notice how long the Chevy
> bowtie and the Ford oval has been around?

I think the real problem here ladies and gentlelmen, that we,(collectively as 
consumers) 
perpetuate this nonsense by buying this crap! The general population is 
totally ignorant 
of what cars could be and should be like. They buy them because they are cute, 
cheap, 
and get 30 MPG. Don't forget about the government either. Essentially, when 
mileage/pollution laws went into effect, the government by proxie, got into 
the 
automobile business. And we all know how good the government is at running 
(ruining) 
things. 

People like us on this list know better and have much better memories of what 
cars were 
about in the past than the average schmuck who is in the market for a new car. 
We, as 
baby boomers, are getting old. Its not inconcievable that your fathers 
Oldsmobile was 
a 1977 Omega......nice heritage huh?  But, remember, we listers are in the 
minority. We 
probably drive the marketing wizards nuts by maintaining/collecting/driving 
older cars. 
To this end, I fully believe that most of us could afford new cars. But for 
what? I can 
(and do) have a fleet of old Toronados that would equal the cost of a new 
Aurora. For 
$2000 bucks, I can pick up and old beater, fix it up and be happy driving 
around in a 
4500 lb car that has testicles and I don't have a $600 a month payment!!!! 
Sure I only 
get 12-18 MPG, but I can buy a hell of a lot of gas for $35,000!!!!  
 
> I've got news for you boys: you've lost market share because you forgot
> who your market was and starting building crap.

Yes and no. They do build crap. But, they build it for the market that buys 
it!  ):
 
> Tell you what.  Why not bring back "Your Father's Oldsmobile"?  But this
> time let's have "Papa" Bob Handren burning up a 1/4 mile.  At least Dad's
> Olds had balls!

Harumpf Harumpf Harumpf!!   

> Ya listening Olds?

I doubt it!

Sparky
- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:25:33 -0300
Subject: Re: "pull the key option" 

In a message dated 96-10-16 17:56:29 EDT, you write:

> 2) I dimly recalled this in a '63 Impala my brother bought new. Thought 
>  it was neat at the time. When i got my '64 and it had a similar switch 
>  all the memories came back.

I remember seeing this once in a '55 to '57 Chevy.  Key could be removed in
off, and the car could be started without a key.  Key removed in Lock locked
the switch.  Also had a friend that I sold a '67 Cutlass Town Sedan to when I
was selling Oldses back in '87.  He could put his key out with the thing
running, but it has something like 144k on it.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:25:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oldsmobile image 

In a message dated 96-10-16 14:35:22 EDT, you write:

> Delranado name that was 
>  ditched for Delmont 

Actually, I think was just Delrado, and I don't think Cadillac was too happy
about it and that's why we got the Delmont instead.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:25:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition removal help 

In a message dated 96-10-16 00:55:41 EDT, you write:

> I tried the paper 
>  clip and turn to the left trick, but couldn't get any action.  What else 
>  do I have to do?  Also, what about removing the escheon?

Hmmm...  The paper clip method worked on mine...  As far as the escheon, I've
always used a flat bladed screw driver in one of the notches and pushed
counterclockwise, CAREFULLY!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:25:31 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 

In a message dated 96-10-16 17:23:09 EDT, you write:

> I don't know if the CCC was available on the
>  t. cruiser.  Anyone got a '67 order book?

Yes, CCC is included as part of the T/C package.

Paul
The Book Guy

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:17:24 -0300
Subject: Metal Dash Painting

I am in the process of dying my dash and a pillar moulding.  It is going 
very good, but it takes lots of coats to cover.  Anyway, I plan on 
painting the metal dash soon (After I can get the stupid lock mechanisim 
out).  Does anybody have any tips on painting this area.  Should I sand 
it down and prime it?  The paint is all there except for a few scratches 
and of course where it wears off under the ignition (there is that word 
again).  Can I just prime that spot and paint over the old paint 
everywhere else?

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:42:47 -0300
Subject: Replacing Cutlass

> The only "good" news, and I'm not sure if it really is, is that a V-6 version
> of the Aurora will be in the model replacing the Cutlass.  Yes _replacing_
> the Cutlass!  On the bright side, maybe the V-6 can be replaced with the
> Aurora V-8?  That might get my attention, and $$$.
> Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
> '67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

In case anyone is interested, the Cutlass Ciera is being replaced  with
the Cutlass.  The Cutlass Supreme name is being retired, and the model is 
being replaced with the Intrigue.   

The new Cutlass is a sister to the new Chevy Malibu.  Here are some specs on
the new Malibu:
4 door sedan (resembles an Accord)
Standard 4 cyl. 2 cam, 2.4L engine (150hp, 155 ft-lb)
Opt. 3100cc V6    (155hp, Real big jump in power, hey!, 185 ft-lb)
No mention of available manual transmissions, standard is 4 speed auto
Auto daytime headlights

anthony

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:50:01 -0300
Subject: No more great cars(not really olds related) 

              I've been reading the posts about the problems with GM in the
last couple of decades and I have to agree fully.  Basically there are no
great American cars anmore.  What's truly depressing is that I was born in
`77.  I've been thinking about it and the only great car that GM developed
during my lifetime was  the Buick Grand National.  It was truly innovative
and people are still talking about it.  And they killed that one simply
because they wanted to change all the midsize cars to FWD.
              The only other real try by GM at being different I was able to
witness as it unfolded was...brace youselves, the Fiero.  Which as everyone
knows had an existence that had a scary resemblance to the Corvair.  And of
course the fiero was scarcely a great car.  Well, people aren't still
talking about them anyway.  (Other than betting whether at least one
headlight will be stuck open as they pass them.)
              My point is, judging by what's out there I have to fully agree
that GM is becomming stagnent.  There are no great road cars anymore.  My
`72 wagon with a good set of tires and shocks is just as stable on the
highway at 110 as it is at 40.  It has power in reserve even running at that
speed.  That can't be said of the majority of cars on the road built since
1977, especially the lowly station wagons.  I guess people are just more
concerned with push button 4WD for the 10 days out of the year that snow is
actually sticking to the roads and they need to go rent a video.   It's
pretty sad.  
              
Funny story, kinda related.  Last summer my friend was telling me his mom's
`88 f*rd pr*be ( I guess the test group prefered that name to Suppository)
was falling apart at 90-something thousand miles.  He then said "they all
fall apart when they get that old."  I just had to tell him him that my dad
*bought* my wagon when it was as old as the pr*be was then.  It also had 90
thousand miles on the clock when he bought it.  It served kid hauler duty
for about 7 years before it went on hiatus until I started driving it in `93.

Well I've rambled enough.  Jeez you guys need to get a gong for me.

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser  

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:47:10 -0300
Subject: Re: My car is in Chevy High Perf. mag. (non-olds)

Great Idea,

Just post when to send!
anthony

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 03:07:47 -0300
Subject: Re: No more great cars(not really olds related)

Greg Pruett wrote:

> I guess people are just more
> concerned with push button 4WD for the 10 days out of the year that snow is
> actually sticking to the roads and they need to go rent a video.   It's
> pretty sad.

Bingo Greg!!!

I think you struck a chord here! 

Is it me, or is the world getting way tooooooo spoiled? I am far from being a 
prude, but 
Lordy, where does common end start and craving for Yuppie convenience start? 
I'm all for 
technology and improvements, but come on......heated seats, split air 
temperture 
controls, HUD, CRT displays for maps...etc ect?????? Next they will be putting 
micro 
wave ovens in them tp keep your coffee from getting tepid!

Get in the damn car and drive it!! If your fanny gets cold......get a hot 
water 
bottle!!!!!!!!!
 
> Funny story, kinda related.  Last summer my friend was telling me his mom's
> `88 f*rd pr*be ( I guess the test group prefered that name to Suppository)
> was falling apart at 90-something thousand miles.  He then said "they all
> fall apart when they get that old." 

Thats called planned obsolescence and in my mind is criminal!!!!!
 
> Well I've rambled enough.  Jeez you guys need to get a gong for me.

Not at all! If more people felt this way, there would be a bigger voice and 
insuing 
lobby to change the shape of US auto manufacturing today!!!

Sparky (grumpy mode off now......sorry!)  (:

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #333
********************************
 
