To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/07/96 11:17:54 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #356


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 7 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 356


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:33:58 -0400
Subject: Forwarded: Re: 307 OLDS!

Here is a post I received from the "hot rod" mail list.  Thought it
might be useful.  I suggested a check out of 442.com, the mail list and
the FAQ.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------------
>Basically the car is equipped with a SB 307.  I am primarily a VW
>enthusiast and while I have some knowledge of American Iron I know very
>little about Oldsmobile and their little quirks that are different from
>your classic small block Chevy.  I am wondering if anyone out there in
>Hot Rod land would be so kind as to help out by shedding some light on
>this engine.  I have heard that Oldsmobile only made/used the 307 as
>emission controlled enginesi in the 80's.  Is this true?  My friend and
>I are looking to get more torque out of the engine.

Having recently rebuilt the top half of the engine in my parents '84
Olds 98 I can give you the following:

I had the heads rebuilt - new exhaust valves - heads completely bead
blasted (looked better than new) and all the seals etc. replaced.  With
130K miles the guides where still good - as where the intake valves.
Total cost $300.08 - this included shimming the valve springs for
proper pressure.

I added Comp Cams 252H high energy cam and lifters.  A true roller
timing chain from Summit.

The Rocker arms and pivots (aluminum) where replaced.

Total cost about $600.

Gained about 2mpg, and slight improvement in acceleration.  I adjusted
the transmission kick down cable so it would rev too high between
shifts.

Bad news:  It now gained an appetite for premium unleaded gas.  A
better bet - the Comp Cam 260 cam...  Also the ultimate acceleration
didn't improve that much.  The problem - rear gears - with 2.72 or even
2.42:1 gears + the TH2004R (rebuilt about 2 years earlier - the only
major failure the car ever had!) just didn't let the engine rev fast
enough.

>We are probably going to pull the engine sometime this week to get it
>out and inspect it.  The pan was destroyed when the center link moved
>up and back and the engine moved down and forward when we hit and we
>think the crank may have gotten a nice little tap so we have to inspect
>it in particular..

>SO I guess what I'm asking is what sort of aftermarket items may exist
>for thes engine?  Emissions are not really a concern.  We havn't
>touched it yet to change it from stock except to remove the Air
>conditionning and A.I.R.

As for aftermarket parts - I think you can get headers...  You'll have
to check carefully - A or E body headers should work for you ( I
beleive the '88 is actually a B body ).  Your biggest problem is the
size of the engine.  But with the right gears you can rev it higher.
This requires a better cam and opening up the secondaries of the carb
more.  You might also be able to find aluminum intake manifolds.  You
can't do much about the heads - maybe with the manifold off stuff rags
in the ports and do some porting.  Keep the shop vac running...

Dirk

[ I too was wondering about the Chevy v. Pontiac 307 issue.  I had
a 307 in my Chevelle for a while.  I also had a 305 Chevy from a
Pontiac.  Perhaps the casting numbers, distributor location, and
intake manifold description will clear it up for all of us.  --FEP ]

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 06:02:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Silica bags corrosion deterent (help)

Dave Isho wrote:
>
> I found this in my files, It should help you both out:
>
> Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
>      O.K. Here's the low down;
>      20 bags of this stuff weighs in at 3 pounds.
>      I'd be more than happy to box them up and ship them anywhere. All
for >      the good of the great Oldsmobile. >      Eric Buckner >
'64 F-85 Deluxe >      Albany, OR > > If you want to contact me
personally > E-mail    Eric B. Buckner@Non-HP.om.cv.hp.com


Thanks Dave, saved me sometime by not looking into my library of olds
digests.

Fernando

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:27:57 -0400
Subject: ID Question -Reply

Gosh damn, Dana!  I'm amazed... and dumbfounded.  You're one smart
cookie!  I'll have to get back to you on the VIN info, etc.  I don't
have all the decoding books here.  I'll have to ask my olds buddies on
the net, but I should have an answer for ya by tomorrow.

another thing you need to do if you're serious about the car is to check
for body work.  If it's a repaint, chances are it has been in an
accident. Check the door jambs, etc. and see if the new paint was a
cheapie Maaco job.  If it's a high quality paint job, it won't be
obvious without close inspection that it was repainted.  If it's a
cheapie, there will be obvious masking lines and possibly chipping
paint.  If it's a cheapie and it's not chipping yet, it will within the
year.  If the painters took the time to do a great masking job, chances
are they also took a lot of time prepping the body, and the paint will
last for years.  But paint's not the most important thing to check for.
A lot of bondo is what you really need to watch out for.  A good body
man will use as little bondo as possible.  His work will last for years
and you'll never be able to tell it's there.  A bad body man just fills
the dents with gallons of filler and it will all crack off about a year
down the road.  That's what you need to watch out for. Checking for
bondo isn't something you'd want to do on the lot.  Ask the salesman
first if the car has been previously wrecked.  If he dodges the
question, I'd check it out.  183k is a lot of miles for a domestic car
that's 13 years old.  Not that you couldn't easily put 183k on a car in
13 years, but domestic cars older than early 70's don't usually make it
that many miles without everything breaking on it.  My '72 has 218k on
it, but it's also had 3 rebuilds and many, many other parts replaced.
Make sure everything works inside, and that all the weatherstripping is
in good shape.  If it's got 183k on it, it will show.  The interior
should also be in fairly decent shape if it's only 83k.  Another good
thing to pay attention to is the suspension.  If it rides rough and
makes noise when you hit a bump or go through a ditch, chances are it's
more like 183k.  The suspension, unless severely neglected, should still
be fine after 83k miles.  And if the suspension has been neglected,
chances are everything else has been to.  The bottome line is, if the
engine checks out and everything is in good shape, and everything works
ok, it's probably safe to assume that it's only got 83k on it and it's a
good buy.  But if it's trashed, it's not the original engine, and
nothing really works, it's more than likely 183k, and it's not worth
more than $1200 tops.

I'll ask some friends to check on that VIN and I'll let you know.  From
what you've told me so far, I'd guess it's only 83k.  If you're really
interested in the car, ask the dealer for the name of the previous
owner.  Then you can call 'em up and get the facts.

Ok, I just looked up the engine/head codes in my Olds FAQ's, and it
say's it's actually a 403.  So obviously your salesman doesn't know
anything about this car.  That could be good, because you might be able
to get a good deal.  Just make sure you know more than him.  Then if you
decide not to get the car, you can rub it all in his face. ;)   There's
a small possibility that it could have been a Hurst/Olds (with it having
t-tops and buckets and all), which would make it more desirable...  The
VIN will tell you exactly what it is.  I'll see what else I can find out
and let you know.

Take care,

Love,
Blaine

P.S. - I wanna know how you learned so much about Oldsmobiles... ;)

------------------------------

From: alice ausmus <ausmusa@svcc.cc.il.us>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:44:45 -0400
Subject: [none]

iam new to this e_mail thing.  Anyhow i have a 64 olds 98 luxury sedan.
I have been searching for info.  regarding this car.  I feel as though
iam the only one who has a car like this.  If there is anyone whom knows
about this car, I would appreciate the response.

------------------------------

From: alice ausmus <ausmusa@svcc.cc.il.us>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:47:10 -0400
Subject: [none]

>Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 13:44:45 -0600
>To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>From: alice ausmus <ausmusa@svcc.cc.il.us>
>
>iam new to this e_mail thing.  Anyhow i have a 64 olds 98 luxury sedan.
I have been searching for info.  regarding this car.  I feel as though
iam the only one who has a car like this.  If there is anyone whom knows
about this car, I would appreciate the response. >

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:38:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Locator Parts Request(Fwd)

This place is right in my backyard.  Since seeing their ad in Hemmings,
I've been tempted to call, stop by.  They do have a retail outlet, so,
I'll have to check them out!  The area code has changed to 630.

>The Parts Place  Batavia, IL  708-879-1600

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:42:09 -0400
Subject: ID Question -Reply -Reply

Oh shit!  I hate it when you accidentally send private mail to thousands
of people!  I've never been so embarassed in my life!!!

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question -Reply

Blaine wrote:


- --snip--

> Check the door jambs, etc. and see if the new paint was a cheapie
> Maaco job.  If it's a high quality paint job, it won't be obvious
without

I have a Maaco paint job on my 1968 442 and it is beautiful.  No
problems.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:48:07 -0400
Subject: ID Question -Reply

Oh my GOD!  Now I am REALLY embarassed!!!  I just figured out what
happened.  One of my best friends is named Dana Turner.  I got the two
mixed up... and oh my gosh do I feel like an idoit!  I'm so sorry Dana
Taylor!  You're probably not even a woman, are you?  Oh my god!  I Hope
you're not as embarassed as I am!

Well, I'm going to go find a big hole to hide in.  Later...

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:57:25 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question -Reply -Reply

Really?  I suppose it depends on what kind of day your Maaco man is
having.  I've seen several Maaco jobs that are completely worthless...

- - Blaine "red-face" Sanders

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:45:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

>
> That seems strange.  My 68 has a little spring loaded switch.  I am
surprised > that Oldsmobile abandoned it. > > Chris Sparks

  Mines a 62 and it also has the pin switch.  If it didnt I'm sure it
would get a little hot in the glove compartment after driving with the
lights on for a while.  The hood light is also on its own mercury switch
 even though it only works with the headlights on.

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:51:17 -0400
Subject: Re:

alice ausmus wrote:
>
> iam new to this e_mail thing.  Anyhow i have a 64 olds 98 luxury
sedan.  I > have been searching for info.  regarding this car.  I feel
as though iam the > only one who has a car like this.  If there is
anyone whom knows about this > car, I would appreciate the response.

I own a 1962 Olds Dynamic 88.  Should be very close to your car.  Parts
and info do seem next to impossible to find on them.
What kind of info do you need on the car?

   George Torch
 1962 Dynamic 88
 1966 Corvair Monza
 1990 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:24:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Michael Kurzdorfer wrote:
> 	I just about have my recovered 442 back in shape.  However it is
> time for me to put it away for a long winters nap.
> 	What I need are, tips/instructions on how to store and how take
> out of storage.  It will be stored in my mothers garage.

I put my '64 to sleep for the winter last weekend. I've followed the
same routine for the last 3-4 years with seemingly no ill effects. It's
not too difficult:

1) Change the oil & filter, check antifreeze and fluids

2) Wash and wax

3) Take it to the gas station, put 35 lbs of air in the tires

4) Get a bottle of fuel preservative (many brands are available), pour
into gas tank, fill tank absolutely to the brim with fresh gas

5) Run the engine for a few minutes (usually the drive home from the
station is enough) to distrubute the preservative-treated fuel
throughout the system

6) Since I park on a concrete floor, I place 4 squares of aluminum foil
under each tire to protect the rubber from the effects of moisture and
concrete (someone told me to do this and it doesn't seem to hurt, though
I don't know if it's necessary)

7) Disconnect the negative battery cable (I don't remove the battery
because it is a heated garage, but this may be advisable if it gets real
 cold. My battery has had plenty of juice every spring when
reconnected)

8) Lock all doors, install car cover.

Other things that could be done: dessicant (drying agent) in interior
and trunk; seal air cleaner and close all vents if pests are a concern.
But that's my routine.

Taking out of storage is, as the saying goes, the reverse of the above.
A fuel filter change in springtime once you've used the last of the
preserved fuel is probably a good idea, as is another oil change at the
same time to get rid of any condensation. Generally come springtime, I
check all systems in non-moving mode once I start the car and get things
 up to temp, then gingerly move out of the garage to ensure that the
brakes, transmission, etc. have survived the winter.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:31:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Throttle Vavle cable adjustment

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>

>       This past weekend I tried to figure out how to adjust my tv
>cable. I'm not sure if this is the reason my car goes nowhere when I
>floor it? It revs real high and then when it shifts I finally go. After
>I checked the trans fluid, I went on to check the tv cable. Does any
one >know how you can tell if it is out of adjustment? I have some books
that >say how to adjust it but they don't say how you can tell if it is
out. >       I've also heard that it could be the bands slipping. Does
anybody >know if it is hard to adjust these? Is it expensive to have a
repair >shop work on it? All comments are appreciated.

Sounds like the TV cable adjustment.  My truck was acting up
and I went thru the repair manual adjustment, but it wouldnt
pull in when the throttle was rotated.  Thus I've been playing with
it every week, moving it a little farther each time.  I'm amazed
at how much the cable can affect the performance.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:38:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

>I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
>locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
>to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.

Technically the plant is in McCook.  I grew up a few miles from the
facility, and even got to take the tour a few years ago when they
had their open house.  Pretty cool looking at diesel engines the size of
some cars...  Now there's some power!  :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:28:55 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question

Dana Taylor wrote:
>
> Hi. Me again with more dumb questions.
> Yesterday I was riding around town during lunch and spotted a pretty
> little Olds in a used car lot so I stopped in. It turned out to be a
1983 > Olds Calais. Has T-Tops. Red interior with auto on
floorw/buckets. Says > 83k on spedo but I wonder maybe 183K. Been
repainted and armoralled. > Now for the questions. The guy told me it
has a 305?? in it. I know > better so don't give me hell. The shroud
says 5.0 liter. That should mean > 307. But... The engine number behind
water pump says 557265 4B the heads > have 4A on them. The valve covers
have all the holes drilled out along > the bottom for bolts but there
are not all the holes in the heads. I am > sure that the engine is not
origional nor are the valve covers orginal to > the heads. It does have
new 4Brl and alternator. The price is 2495 but > the guy said I will
take 2000 even before I tried it out. So the Vin is > 2G3AK47YID2330218
What is the engine??? 260??? and what is the car > supposed to be??? >
Thanks in advance  Dana

Hello,

The Y in the VIN indicates that the car should have a 307...I have an 86
Supreme
with engine code H - a 305.  It's possible that someone did drop a 305
in there
if the original engine blew.

Where is the oil filler on the engine?  My 305 car has it on the
driver's valve
cover.  My Dad's 307 car has an oil filler tube coming up the front of
the engine.

Hope this has helped!

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 81 Cutlass Engine Swap

Katana72@aol.com wrote:
>
> 350 motor fits fine, but you need to change the springs. Wiring isn't
a major > problem, just connect only the things you need. Alternator,
distributor,water > temp, oil pressure sensor may need changing, etc. I
did this to an 81 wagon > and the only problems I've had is the idiot
lights come on very dimly for > temp and gen. The tranny can be used,
but you should get a kit from JEGS or > ASAP to activate the lock-up
convertor. Good luck!!!!! > > Katana72

Thanks for the reply...  I don't know alot about transmissions, so maybe
you could tell me the purpose of activating the lock-up converter?  I
understand
it has something to do with the increased horsepower, but that's about
it...

Thanks again,

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:32:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

>6) Since I park on a concrete floor, I place 4 squares of aluminum foil
 >under each tire to protect the rubber from the effects of moisture
and >concrete (someone told me to do this and it doesn't seem to hurt,
though I >don't know if it's necessary)

This sounds like an extension of the battery-on-a-concrete-floor issue:
whether it makes a difference if you put a block of wood underneath.
The foil might act as a moisture barrier under the footprint of the
tire, though if you're just storing through the winter I don't know if
it would make that much difference. Better you should just get the tires
off the ground with some jackstands under the suspension (that way you
also guard against tire damage if one of them goes flat over the
winter).

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:59:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

I guess I don't have the problems of having to store my car.  I live in
So. California.  So I get to drive my car all of the time ;-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:07:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Heater Core Woes

Greg,
That CLR stuff foams when it hits lime and other hard water deposits.  I
 don't think that would be good.  But then I don't know what things the
 regular Rad cleaner does.  Just a thought.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------------
<snip>
Now, I know what a big job it is to swap one of these out on a '64
A-body - - removing the inner fender and all - but I wonder if there
isn't a cheaper and easier fix. Anyone ever use that "CLR" stuff to
clean calcium, etc,.? I'm thinking... might it not have the same effect
in a heater core and open it up? Anyone ever done this?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

At 02:25 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>Now I go to Dufour's in Lancaster, MA.  Nuthin newer than 1975.
>
>Tim Churchill

Tim,

Where is Lancaster? If it's south, I may take the trip up from
Providence.

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: modificatons

At 01:03 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Well I have a '85 Delta 3.8 V6. No work has been done to the car yet so
I >am basically starting from scratch. Any suggestions for a starting
point..

Hmmm, is that Front-wheel drive or is it still Rear-wheel drive?

If it is rear-wheel drive, the simplest and cheapest solution is to swap
in a bigger motor (455 would be nice).

If it is front-wheel drive, then I'm at a loss; apart from handling
improvements by swapping in FE3 parts from later cars, and perhaps a
low-restriction exhaust and intake, you're charting new territory. One
of those Series II 3800's would be nice (and a supercharged version even
nicer), but you'd better have a good background in electronics and
automotive computers to get it to work in your car.

All-in-all, it'd be cheaper to buy a '70 442 in need of some work, and
start there; in stock form it would be faster than even a
heavily-modified fwd Delta.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:32:03 -0400
Subject: Re: your mail

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, alice ausmus wrote:

> iam new to this e_mail thing.  Anyhow i have a 64 olds 98 luxury
sedan.  I > have been searching for info.  regarding this car.  I feel
as though iam the > only one who has a car like this.  If there is
anyone whom knows about this > car, I would appreciate the response.


What would you like to know?!  I just answered a similar question from a
 new guy with a '64 F-85.  I just recently sold my '64 Jetstar 88 after
 having owned it for 5 years, so I've accumulated a bit of knowledge
about '64 Oldsmobiles.


A few things about your car:

The "Luxury Sedan" is a 4-door hardtop, series style number 3829, where
the 38 stood for the "98" series, and the 29 referred to the body style.
 Other '64 98 body styles included 3819 (Town Sedan, a 4-door pillared
sedan), 3839 (Holiday Sports Sedan, another 4-door hardtop style), 3847
(Holiday Sports Coupe, a 2-door hardtop), 3867 (Convertible Coupe), and
3947, the Custom Sports Soupe, which was a fancier 2-door hardtop.


Your car's standard engine was the 394 V-8 (the last year for this
engine) putting out 330 hp.  The carburetor was a 4-barrel.

Oldsmobile produced 17,346 98 Luxury Sedans in 1964.  Total Oldsmobile
production was 546,112.


If you tell me the VIN and the numbers off of the body style plate, I
can tell you more.  The VIN should be on the left front door pillar.
The body style plate should be on the passenger side under the hood
just below the cowl.  You'll have to raise the hood to see it.  With
the numbers from it, I can tell you what your car's original paint
scheme and interior colors were.


Your car's original base list price was $4342.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: John and Elizabeth Gene <gene@cybernex.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:03:22 -0400
Subject: ID TH 200-4R serial number

I have a 1988 Custom Cruiser with a 307 motor and a TH 200-4R
transmission. I was under the car today and pulled the number of the
metal plate. I guess I'm hoping that its a better then average
transmission after reading on the mailing list of the many types. The
serial number is 350-881KTF0504 and in big letters it reads KTF . If any
one can tell me a little about the model it would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks, John +==========================+ | John and
Elizabeth Gene  | | mailto:gene@cybernex.net |
+==========================+

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:01:18 -0400
Subject: Maaco

>I have a Maaco paint job on my 1968 442 and it is beautiful.  No
problems.

How old is it?  I have a Maaco paint job on my car, and it took less
than a year for it to look like crap.  The paint job is now over seven
years old, and still looks like crap.  I would _NEVER_ take another car
there.  The Olds was the first and last paint job I will ever have done
by Maaco.


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:13:37 -0400
Subject: Switch

I found and saved a switch mounted by the gas pedal on that '68
convertible I found in the junkyard.  It mounts on a bracket that is
part of the plate that the gas pedal pivots under.  It's a couple inches
long, and has a shaft that sticks out the side.  When the gas pedal is
pressed far enough, it hits that shaft and moves the switch.  It's got a
two wire connector that attaches to it, one wire pink, the other orange.
Is it the kickdown switch for a TH400?  I'll keep it if it is, because I
want to put a TH400 in my Olds eventually. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:30:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Die Cast Cars

Chris Sparks wrote:
>
> Todd Hall wrote:
>
> > I've found another source for anyone interested in getting the
> > 69 H/O and 69 442 die cast models being released shortly.
>
> What no 68's?  Are these available?
>
> Chris Sparks

Nope, only 68 plastic promos are available and they are big bucks (not
to mention hard to find).

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:37:17 -0400
Subject: RE: ID TH 200-4R serial number

>mailing list of the many types. The serial number is 350-881KTF0504 and
in >big letters it reads KTF . If any one can tell me a little about the
model

I think that KTF means its also for a 442 or Hurt Olds.  Pretty tough
stuff in it compared to other th 200 4Rs.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:49:47 -0400
Subject: Maaco -Reply

The problem with Maaco and all these other in-n-out-in-an-hour places is
that they don't take the time to prep right.  There's NO WAY you could
completely prep a car (the right way) in an hour!  The quality of a
paint job is about 20% sprayer's ability, 20% paint quality, and 60%
prep work.
 Basically, if you don't take the time to sand and prep every square
inch of that car and mask everything right, it doesn't matter if you use
the best paint and it's applied perfectly.  Because eventually it will
flake or peel off.  I can't see how these one-hour places could possibly
be able to do it right, because it takes one person at least 10-15 hours
to do a decent prep job.  And the more people you have working on it,
the more chances there are that something will get missed.  But the fact
of the matter is, they just don't care.  Their motto is, "Quantity, Not
Quality. Quality costs money."  At a one-hour joint, you get what you
pay for. The *only* way I could see one of those paint jobs lasting is
if you spent the time to do the prep work yourself.  Just my 2 cents...

- - Blaine "still embarassed" Sanders

>>> Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net> 11/06/96 05:01pm >>>
>I have a Maaco paint job on my 1968 442 and it is beautiful.  No
problems.

How old is it?  I have a Maaco paint job on my car, and it took less
than a year for it to look like crap.  The paint job is now over seven
years old, and still looks like crap.  I would _NEVER_ take another car
there.  The Olds was the first and last paint job I will ever have done
by Maaco.


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:58:59 -0400
Subject: Auto Pioneering

Chris Witt sent a very informative and entertaining message to the list
today about the life of Ransom Olds and the early history of the
Oldsmobile and REO companies.  Unfortunately it was very long - about
65K - - and bounced to me, although it did reach the digest. The
max-message length parameter doesn't seem to work for the digest.

Anyhow, I have a dilemma. I would like interested people to see this,
but I'm hesitant to chop it up and post it to the list because it would
still be really big and probably fill a bunch of mailboxes. Plus,
digest people would already have seen it. What do you all think? Would
4 messages of about 15K each about the early days of Olds and REO be of
interest and not cause too much of a hassle? Let me know and I'll
follow the wishes of the majority. The polls will be open for a couple
of days. Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:20:30 -0400
Subject: Re: modificatons

Well I have a rear wheel drive so you think that the 455 motor would be
the best and cheapest way to gain some kick ass acceleration and
performance....

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:23:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco

Well I have a rear wheel drive so you think that the 455 motor would be
the best and cheapest way to gain some kick ass acceleration and
performance....

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:50:59 -0400
Subject: Olds 455 Flywheel

I bought a flywheel for a late ('68-'76) 455 from Chicago Musclecars.
Turns out they sent me one with an early bolt pattern.  Is there anyone
who would be interested in swapping a late pattern flywheel in real good
shape for an early pattern one in real good shape?

I'll ship this one back Monday if I don't hear anything.  I guess I was
thinking that an early pattern flywheel would be of interest to someone.
It strikes me that they are probably a bit more rare than the late ones
since they cover fewer years.

Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:01:36 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question

Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>      From the VIN number the car originally had a olds 307.  The
engine >      that's in there now is an Olds 403 (!).  Sorry, I can't
tell the year >      exactly, but somewhere from '77 to '79. > >
Tom L.

WOW a 403!! maybe it is worth the 2000 dollars. It has the rally gagues
but they don't work correctly. The tack idles at 1500 and shifts out of
passibg gear at 6000 rpm. The Alt lights seems to work but the
voltmeter says 12 volts and goes lower when the lights are turned on.
The oil pressure guage reads funny also. I think the guages were
trandplanted in there. The car drives real nice on the road though. The
T-Tops are very noisey. Car has air but crank windows. The paint was a
cheap job but the body looks straight. The only scary part is that the
rear frame has been welded. Another dumb question ... Isn't there
supposed to be racks to hold the T-Tops??

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:07:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco

nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu wrote:
>
> Well I have a rear wheel drive so you think that the 455 motor would
be the > best and cheapest way to gain some kick ass acceleration and >
performance....

I have been driving a 77 pontiac with a Olds 455 in it for the last
couple of weeks and yes a 455 will give you kick ass acceleration!!!
 It has been real fun with that car. the 20 day plates run out on Fri
and I can't afford the 20.00 dollars a day to drive it any more. I
drive 67 mi each way to work and the gas kills me. I named it Big
Ugly!!. It is a 4 door with ugly black stripes on the hood and trunk.
(car is white). I am going to retire it and save the engine.

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:19:20 -0400
Subject: 1966 Olds tripower for sale! Cheap!!

I was flirting with the idea of swaping the intake for a car, I found
a great car but the guy wont swap(wants cash only).  So I'm forced to
try and sell it.

1966 Olds 3x2 manifold with correct carbs (all rebuilt), choke, heat
riser cut outs and all linkage.
NO air cleaners or fule lines.

first $850 takes it.

Ken
Cleveland, Ohio
rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:35:10 -0400
Subject: RE: ID TH 200-4R serial number

> >mailing list of the many types. The serial number is 350-881KTF0504
and in > >big letters it reads KTF . If any one can tell me a little
about the model > > I think that KTF means its also for a 442 or Hurt
Olds.  Pretty tough stuff in > it compared to other th 200 4Rs.

A couple weeks ago, OLDSPWR@aol.com posted:

> Codes for 200-4R's:
> ** KZF - 442's
> ** CZF - Monte SS's
> ** BRF - Turbo Regals
> ** OZ - Hurst's
> OM - 350 Olds Diesels
> OG - 307 Olds
> BY - 252 V6 Cars
> AA & AP - Cadillac's

I just checked my '88 Cadillac, and the transmission tag offered this:

306-881KTF0212

Maybe all '88 B/D cars came with this model.  The KTF valve body does
not seem conducive to high performance applications.  On my car, 1-2 and
2-3 upshifts occur at about 3400 rpm.  Since peak horsepower for a
smogged out 307 occurs at 3200 rpm, this is not unreasonable for a stock
engine.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:41:03 -0400
Subject: is $850 a deal for a 68 442?

I went and looked at a 1968 442 today.  vin 3448781115797
It was recently boom-towed without a front bumper so both headlight
buckets are smashed.  It's a 4 speed car.  Missing engine and trans. Car
is in primer. Only rust is forward of rear wheels(very little). Floor
boards as well as trunk floor are perfect, as is the frame.  Grill is
missing.  Interior is fair(small rips on the seats).  The guy has the
original exhaust manifolds, a rally pack tach/gauges, a 4 speed console,
emblem for grill, MT flywheel, bell housing, clutch, front/rear
bumper(with cutouts), 2 new quarter pannels, and more in his basement.
All this for $850.

I have 2 Muncie M-21's and a 400 "E" taking up space in my garage.

 I'm prob. gonna buy it, but I wanted to get some input from you guys
first. Any thoughts on this deal? Anyone have headlight buckets for this
car?

Thanks,
Ken
rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:49:15 -0400
Subject: Re: modificatons

At 08:20 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Well I have a rear wheel drive so you think that the 455 motor would be
the >best and cheapest way to gain some kick ass acceleration and
>performance....

The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars...

Yes, the 455 would be the most cost-effective way of making your car
faster; whether that could be done while keeping the car emissions-legal
is another question. Assuming that is not a problem, you'd have to
decide whether you wanted to retain computer-control of the engine, in
which case you could use the setup from an Olds 307 V-8 -equipped car of
the same year, and modify the carb and perhaps even the ECM to provide
the right fuel for 455 ci rather than for 307ci. If you went with a
non-computer carb and TH400 transmission (my recommendation), I don't
know what else in the car would require a computer (speedometer
signals?), or if you could dispense with it entirely.

An intermediate approach would be to build an Olds 350, which externally
is the same dimensions as the 307's that Olds shipped in those cars.
This would still provide a substantial improvement in acceleration, but
would cost less and be lots closer to a stock-appearing car; heck, you'd
probably even be able to get the thing through emissions.

What else would you need to know?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:49:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Pioneering

At 07:58 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Chris Witt sent a very informative and entertaining message to the list
>today about the life of Ransom Olds and the early history of the
>Oldsmobile and REO companies.  Unfortunately it was very long - about
65K >- and bounced to me, although it did reach the digest. The
max-message >length parameter doesn't seem to work for the digest. >
>Anyhow, I have a dilemma. I would like interested people to see this,
but >I'm hesitant to chop it up and post it to the list because it
would still >be really big and probably fill a bunch of mailboxes.
Plus, digest people >would already have seen it. What do you all think?
Would 4 messages of >about 15K each about the early days of Olds and
REO be of interest and >not cause too much of a hassle? Let me know and
I'll follow the wishes of >the majority. The polls will be open for a
couple of days. Thanks! > >Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Well, it certainly would be Olds related, and if C.Witt wrote it, it is
sure to be both informative and entertaining. If you don't post it to
the list, at least send me a copy!
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: is $850 a deal for a 68 442?

At 09:41 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I went and looked at a 1968 442 today.  vin 3448781115797
Buy it.
>It was recently boom-towed without a front bumper so both headlight
>buckets are smashed.  It's a 4 speed car.  Missing engine and trans.
Car Buy it. >is in primer. Only rust is forward of rear wheels(very
little). Floor >boards as well as trunk floor are perfect, as is the
frame.  Grill is Buy it. >missing.  Interior is fair(small rips on the
seats).  The guy has the >original exhaust manifolds, a rally pack
tach/gauges, a 4 speed console, Buy it. >emblem for grill, MT flywheel,
bell housing, clutch, front/rear >bumper(with cutouts), 2 new quarter
pannels, and more in his basement. Buy it. >All this for $850. Buy it.
>I have 2 Muncie M-21's and a 400 "E" taking up space in my garage. Buy
it. > I'm prob. gonna buy it, but I wanted to get some input from you
guys >first. Any thoughts on this deal? Anyone have headlight buckets
for this >car? Buy it. >Thanks, >Ken >rottin@coil.com

Hmmm, Ken, that's a tough one; after thinking it over, I'd be inclined
to buy it, especially if you have something to power it. Since it can't
be numbers-matching, you can have fun with it as well!
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:29:38 -0400
Subject: 70-72 Front Fenders & Other Parts

Hi all:

I don't think I will have time to go through the digest for yesterday.
But I obtained some information today that might be of use to many
members.

Save you money or find NOS stuff GM is out of.

A fellow restorer and parts man is a member of our OCA Chapter the Olds
Club of Florida. He is a fantastic source of information.  A ten minute
phone conversation today resulted in the following information.

To those looking for front fenders from GM they are in fact no longer
available.  Right fronts are hard to find but left fronts are still
available - - from some of the people who bought them up.  One source
for left front fenders, GM number 404719 is Classic Cutlass in Florida.
941-365-3032.  Ask for Eric.  He has several GM NOS fenders and is
asking $375 each.  Not cheap but solid NOS.

70-72 Cutlass rear quarter panels are being manufactured again under
license from GM.  These new stampings use the original GM dies. Right
and left (8769148 and 8769149) are available from New Center Stamping in
Detroit. Call 810-239-9510.  According to our Olds parts guy they are
being sold for about 1/2 what GM used to sell them for just a few years
ago.

The company that supplies Year One and others with floor pans, trunk
pans, patch panels, core support patch panels, etc. is a company called
Goodmark.
 Ask for Mike Grey at 770-339-8557.  You can get them for at least 50%
less than Year One charges.

I haven't called any of these numbers. I don't need anything they have.
I would be interested in anyones experience with these vendors.

If it exists, Drew Koba knows where to get it!

Good hunting!

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:48:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Pioneering

At 10:49 PM 11/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, it certainly would be Olds related, and if C.Witt wrote it, it is
sure >to be both informative and entertaining. If you don't post it to
the list, >at least send me a copy!
>_______________________________________________________ >Dr. Robert
Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu >Theology Dept, Providence
College, Providence, RI 02918 >


I second that.  Since I'm fairly new to Oldsmobiles, and I really don't
know much about the history I would like to get a copy.

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88

------------------------------

From: "bemet" <bemet@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:06:37 -0400
Subject: $5000 engine job??

Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
after a 3,000 original oral estimate.

Anybody have any experience as to whether it's even possible to pay that
much for an engine rebuild? On a scale of reasonable charges, is this
off the chart or not all that unreasonable?

Thanks.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:11:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch

Is it the kickdown switch for a TH400?

     Yep, that's exactly what it is.  If you don't have a TH400, install

     the switch to activate nitrous at wide open throttle...'course,
you've
     also got to install the N2O system...

     Actually, I wanted a "stealthy" way to activate the N2O in the 71
     Cutlass I had (the one the ex got... :( ).  I installed a turn
signal
     lever for cruise control and used the pushbutton on the tip to
     activate a relay which turned on the N2O.  It was easy to reach
with
     both hands on the wheel and completel unobtrusive.  Of course the
one
     piece fiberglass tilt front end and dual quads on the 455 did tend
to
     attract attention....

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:13:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Pioneering

     I'd like to have it.  No problems with mailbox size.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:26:23 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: modificatons

At 08:20 PM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Well I have a rear wheel drive so you think that the 455 motor would be
the >best and cheapest way to gain some kick ass acceleration and
>performance....

The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars...

Yes, the 455 would be the most cost-effective way of
making your car faster; whether that could be done
while keeping the car emissions-legal is another
question.

     Keep in mind that the routine annual emissions testing typically
has
     pass/fail limits set considerably looser than those for new car
     manufacturers.  The rationale for this, of course, is that the
     pass/fail criteria must allow for normal wear and tear.  I've
noticed
     that when I lived in So Cal, my 66-72 442s would typically emit at
     levels sufficiently low to pass the late 70's requirements, as a
     minimum.  Note that this was prior to the latest, loaded on a dyno
     emissions testing (has that been implemented yet?), so that may not

     still be the case.  Also keep in mind that this more stringent
testing
     may be spreading to other parts of the country.

     Having said that, I think it is very possible to get the 455 past
     emissions testing, so long as the car in question was at least
     available with a V-8 (so as not to raise the eyebrows of the
     inspectors too much).  I would definitely go the stealth route -
make
     the 455 look like the factory 307.  Paint it corporate blue, use
the
     original 307 valve covers, use cast iron manifolds, original air
     cleaner (at least, for the test), and retain the
computer-controlled
     Q-jet.  This is not as hard as it seems, as the computer only
controls
     the primary side of the carb.  You would also need to retain the O2

     sensor.  You will be free to do whatever you want to the secondary
     jetting (metering rods), which are the dominant set for WOT
     performance.  Just make sure the installation looks as stock as
     possible.  Most people can't tell the difference between the small
     block and big block Olds motors without having them side by side.
     heck, most people can't tell the difference between an Olds and a
     Chevy motor for that matter.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: kiss74@worldnet.att.net
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:28:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> I found and saved a switch mounted by the gas pedal on that '68
convertible > I found in the junkyard.  It mounts on a bracket that is
part of the plate > that the gas pedal pivots under.  It's a couple
inches long, and has a shaft > that sticks out the side.  When the gas
pedal is pressed far enough, it hits > that shaft and moves the switch.
It's got a two wire connector that > attaches to it, one wire pink, the
other orange.  Is it the kickdown switch > for a TH400?  I'll keep it if
it is, because I want to put a TH400 in my > Olds eventually. > -- >
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >
dpauliso@gate.net Dave, The switch is most likley for the Super Turbine
300 2 spd. I am not too sure if it will work with your TH400, but there
is a real good chance that it will, so it's worth a shot. You probably
also need the pedal, and the wiring harness. Josh

13.103et @102.35mph in a 1969 W-31 With street tires and full exhuast.
Who says ya need a 455! Ya just need the heads!

------------------------------

From: kiss74@worldnet.att.net
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:42:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch

kiss74@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> Dave Paulison wrote:
> >
> > I found and saved a switch mounted by the gas pedal on that '68
convertible > > I found in the junkyard.  It mounts on a bracket that is
part of the plate > > that the gas pedal pivots under.  It's a couple
inches long, and has a shaft > > that sticks out the side.  When the gas
pedal is pressed far enough, it hits > > that shaft and moves the
switch.  It's got a two wire connector that > > attaches to it, one wire
pink, the other orange.  Is it the kickdown switch > > for a TH400?
I'll keep it if it is, because I want to put a TH400 in my > > Olds
eventually. > > -- > > Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme > > Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GS > > dpauliso@gate.net > Dave, > The switch is most likley for
the Super Turbine 300 2 spd. I am not too > sure if it will work with
your TH400, but there is a real good chance > that it will, so it's
worth a shot. You probably also need the pedal, > and the wiring
harness. > Josh > > 13.103et @102.35mph in a 1969 W-31 With street
tires and full exhuast. > Who says ya need a 455! Ya just need the
heads!

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:42:05 -0400
Subject: 64 Info

To those interested in the 64 98:

I have a 66 and many things changed in those years, but I hope the
following is useful to you and others new to the list a quick summary of
what I've learnt over the past 15 years. I'll try to keep it short:

1) Get a 1964 chassis service manual and fisher body manual. Together
they should run you 'bout $80-100 and are well worth the investment.
Detailed information about every system in the car from air to
electrical. Wiring diagram is especially valuable. 2) Know about
Hemmings Motor News. Lots of parts sources in there for old Olds 3)
There are some specialists, mostly Cutlass oriented but Fusick's in
Windsor Locks, Ct (near Hartford & Bradley airport) is a great source
for big car pieces both trim and mechanical stuff 4) Haunt junkyards,
the self service ones in Ca. have been great to me. I once went to Az.
too and had some success there. 5) Hall's Auto Salvage in Soldier,KS is
another great source for mechanical and body parts, but not trim as many
of their cars have been in KS winter and summer for many years. Also not
terribly cheap, but the BEST selection I've ever seen of vintage Olds
hulks, by far, far, far. 6) Pay attention to this list, the amount and
depth of the knowledge is truly amazing.

S'about it
Chris Fair

PS: Enjoy the car as often as possible and try to avoid selling it.

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:43:49 -0400
Subject: Kickdown Switch

Don't know if this got answered already but that switch located behind
the gas pedal on the 1971 (?) is in fact the kickdown switch. Olds had a
few different solutions to this problem on both sides of the firewall
over the 64-75 years, use the one that works best in your setup or go
with factory to minimize the amount fabrication that is necessary. Chris
Fair

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:06:05 -0400
Subject: Re: $5000 engine job??

In a message dated 96-11-06 23:25:28 EST, you write:

> Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
after >  a 3,000 original oral estimate. > >  Anybody have any
experience as to whether it's even possible to pay that >  much for an
engine rebuild? On a scale of reasonable charges, is this off >  the
chart or not all that unreasonable? > >  Thanks.

Well, I just spent $15,000.00 for mine, and I've heard that you can
spend a lot more, BUT, here in California it's the law to provide a
written estimate prior to work commencing which you must sign. Then, if
they go over that amount you must authorize it first. I had my Camaro in
the shop, the Chevy dealer by the way, and the estimate was $800.00 for
a new ECM and carb work. The bill when I arrived was $2700.00, and after
I freaked out and yelled a little the manager had to give me the car for
the original estimate. I thanked them for fixing the heater core and
brakes, paid my $800.00 and drove home. It's against the law to do what
they did to you in California, maybe you should check with the laws in
your area.

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:01:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: 307 OLDS!


[ I too was wondering about the Chevy v. Pontiac 307 issue.  I had
a 307 in my Chevelle for a while.  I also had a 305 Chevy from a
Pontiac.  Perhaps the casting numbers, distributor location, and
intake manifold description will clear it up for all of us.  --FEP ]

     The Chevy 307 from the late 60s-early 70s is a real small block
Chevy
     engine and not to be confused with the 307 Olds from the 80s, which
is
     a real Oldsmobile engine and common to other small block Olds
motors
     (260-307-330-350-403).  The two are totally different in bore,
stroke,
     bore spacing, block casting, head casting, etc.  Nothing is
     interchangable.  Pontiac had a 301 engine in the late 70s-early
80s,
     which is a Pontiac engine and common to other Pontiac engines
     (326-350-389-400-428).  GM confuses people by first having each
     division build totally different engines with the same displacement

     (at least, after rounding off), such as the four different 350s, in

     the 60s, then mixing engines and divisions (such as the 305 Chevy
used
     in Oldsmobiles, or the 403 Olds used in Buicks) when they started
to
     pare down this overlap in the mid-70s.

     The real simple way to tell these "late model" GM engines apart is
the
     following:

     Olds (big and small block)

     Separate oil filler tube on front of block above water pump
     Rear mounted distributor
     Five bolts hold each exhaust manifold on to head: four in a line
and
     the fifth one above and centered between the two middle exhaust
ports
     Starter on driver's side
     Oil filter on passenger's side
     Six bolts holding transmission bellhousing to block
     Flat plate timing chain cover with open-back water pump which seals
to
     the plate
     Valve covers shaped like trapazoid with rounded sides (top rail
     shorter than bottom rail) and held on with ten bolts (on some later

     engines, only five are used but all ten locations are on the cover)


     Chevy (small block)

     Oil filler in valve cover
     Rear mounted distributor
     Rectangular valve covers with four bolts each (later LT-1 motors
have
     valve cover bolts passing through center of valve cover instead of
the
     outside edges)
     Starter on passenger's side
     Oil filter on driver's side
     Five bolts holding transmission bellhousing to block, including one
at
     the top center of the bellhousing
     Stamped, raised timing chain cover
     Water pump stradles timing chain cover and has two ports which
attach
     directly to the heads

     Buick

     Oil filler in valve cover
     Front-mounted distributor (only GM V-8 other than Caddy)
     Four separate exhaust ports with two bolts on each
     Cast aluminum front cover with external oil pump (there is a
separate
     plate on the bottom of the front cover which can be removed to
expose
     the oil pump gears)
     Water pump bolts into front cover
     Six bolts on bellhousing

     Pontiac

     Oil filler in valve cover
     Rear-mounted distributor
     Intake manifold runners separate from valley cover (careful, this
is
     similar to the 64 and earlier first generation Olds V-8 and the
     aluminum 215 Buick - but those should be easy to identify)
     Six bolts in bellhousing
     Valve covers have rounded ends and are held on with four bolts


     Hope this helps

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:13:32 -0400
Subject: Re: $5000 engine job??

$5K is not that crazy. I paid $4K for mine maybe 5K fully loaded, but
the heads were ported, polished and setup for unleaded as well as
complete machining of the short block, new crank, rods, pistons, timing
chain etc. Also I had mine installed for me, I didn't (and don't) have
the knowledge or experience to do this myself.

71 442 W30? Cool car, worth the investment. Just get on out and enjoy
it! cf

>Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
after >a 3,000 original oral estimate. > >Anybody have any experience as
to whether it's even possible to pay that >much for an engine rebuild?
On a scale of reasonable charges, is this off >the chart or not all that
unreasonable? > >Thanks.

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:40:39 -0400
Subject: RE: Junk in the front yard

I got relations in Flossmoor Il;
Coral Gables, Florida has the same rule on pickups and vans.  I guess
its a crime there to have a "blue colar job".


Dennis Sytsma
dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us


On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Dennis Johnson wrote:

>
>
> ----------
> From: 	Andrew C. Green[SMTP:acg@dlogics.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, November 05, 1996 2:50 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: Junk in the front yard
>
> >> I deserve protection from unsightly neighbors, just as they deserve
 > >> protection from my car hobby. > > > >A reasonable attitude from
a reasonable man. > > As a data point, certain suburbs in the Chicago
area have experimented > with ordinances prohibiting even the _parking_
of pickup trucks in the > homeowners' driveways. (Yes, functional,
normal pickup trucks and other > light commercial stuff like vans with
company logos on them.) They have > to be concealed or garaged somehow. >
 >                             That would be Flossmoor, Illinois. >
dj > > > > > > So the hypothetical neighbor with > cars up on
blocks in front wouldn't stand a chance in those towns. > > -- Andy,
who lasted all of one day on the digest list before getting >    back
into the real-time listserver fray... > > >

------------------------------

From: "Field Office" <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 01:18:26 -0400
Subject: Re: $5000 engine job??

 Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
after

Wow i think it's off teh chart unless you had him put in some really
expensive
parts to make you go very fast! Or the other case he molded an aluminum
block!
Surely this is way to much for a stock rebuild! Give the guy Hell!

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:29:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Pioneering

Send it any way that works.  Could email attachment suffice?

Thanks for thinking of us.  David Wilk

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:59:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch

In a message dated 96-11-06 23:43:40 EST, you write:

> Of course the one
>       piece fiberglass tilt front end and.............

Now that's something I've been trying to do for a while is find a way to
tilt the front end of my 68 for ease of maintenence, and just thought
it'd be cool as well. Any ideas there? Where/how did you get a
fiberglass front end for your 71? Sorry about the ex.

Phil De Simone

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 03:33:04 -0400
Subject: Re: rear anti-sway bar question

I'm going to use the one salvaged off our old '70 Chevelle (its a 2" I
believe).  When we went to 4 link suspension we took it off & I've
hauled it around since - glad I can finally use the d**m thing.  Now if
I could just come up with something to put the heads & intake off the
400 built for my old Cutlass, i might have a bit more garage space.




Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 05:03:48 -0400
Subject: Carburetor problems with our Ninety Eight -64

Hi everyone.

I have got tired with my 4bbl Rochester... :(
It has all the bad Rochester symptoms.

- - Good idle but VERY sloooooow response to pedal.
- - Looses vacuum if you press the pedal slowly, may stall too.

I changed a factory rebuilt one and the symptoms remained
the same. The carburetor was adjusted by a real pro who
has a reputation of knowing Rochester. He said that this
"Rock-Orchestra" behaves this way when it is OK. I don't
think it is OK for me.

I have checked my ignition, as far as I know, it's OK.

I have NOT checked the timing chain. Could it cause these
symptoms ?

I think it is great time to change a more modern
carburetor there.

I read somebody changing an Edelbrock into his F-85.

I would like to know about the swap:
- - what modifications had to be done on the pedal linkage ?
- - how about the tranny linkage (kickdown) ?
- - any modifications on vacuum advance control ?
- - was it better and how did it affect mileage ?

If anybody knows a good source for a good carburetor,
please send the information for me.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:14:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Carburetor problems with our Ninety Eight -64

On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Esko Ilola wrote:
> I have got tired with my 4bbl Rochester... :(
> It has all the bad Rochester symptoms.

<snip>

> I think it is great time to change a more modern
> carburetor there.
> **********************************************
> * Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
> *            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
> **********************************************

This would be the old-style Rochester 4GC carb, not a Quadrajet. The
symptoms you describe are not known to me with a Quadrajet - I'm very
happy with mine. So I would recommend a Q-jet for the swap, except I
wonder if your intake would permit a Q-jet to fit. Someone here will be
able to answer that I'm sure. Since your car is running a 394 (I assume)
 getting a manifold may be a problem, but hopefully you won't have to
worry about that.

I think the Edelbrock carbs we hear about are renamed Q-jets in any
event, either entirely new or rebuilt using Edelbrock parts, not sure
which. Again, the experts here will certainly help on this one.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:19:54 -0400
Subject: RE[2]: Carburetor problems.....

<snip>
This would be the old-style Rochester 4GC carb, not a Quadrajet. The
symptoms you describe are not known to me with a Quadrajet - I'm very
happy with mine. So I would recommend a Q-jet for the swap, except I
wonder if your intake would permit a Q-jet to fit. Someone here will be
able to answer that I'm sure. Since your car is running a 394 (I assume)
 getting a manifold may be a problem, but hopefully you won't have to
worry about that. <snip>

Yes, You're right. Wonder where the inside stuff of my head has leaked,
maybe the R-symptoms have migrated there?

I will consult the shop manual more closely tonight although I doubt it
gives me additional clues on differences between a QJ and 4GC.

There is always a possibility to let a good workshop tailor a conversion
plate between the new carburetor and manifold. This won't cost a lot
here in Finland.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "JOHN L. BERENYI" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:31:31 -0400
Subject: Olds carb jets

Where can I get these puppies since they are now discontinued at the
local auto store.


John

------------------------------

From: "JOHN L. BERENYI" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:40:36 -0400
Subject: Lifter Preload

If you had an engine with 20k miles on it and wanted to know if the
preload was set properly how would you do it.  Can it be properly
checked without the engine running?  If I'm not mistaken doesn't the
engine need to be running to keep the lifters in a pumped up state?

Once and for all I'd like someone to tell me in DETAIL how to go about
doing this procedure with a motor that is already in the car and run for
a while.

The engine is a 66 330 cu in, bored .040, exhaust valves have hardened
seats, 4 barrel cam(stock GM), 2 barrel carb and 2 barrel intake.  All
push rods, rockers, and pivot bridges are new and TRW.



John Berenyi

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:45:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

I commented:

> >Now I go to Dufour's in Lancaster, MA.  Nuthin newer than 1975.
> >
RI Bob queried:

> Tim,
>
> Where is Lancaster? If it's south, I may take the trip up from
Providence. > Well, Lancaster is a little North by Northwest (Gee,
that'd make a cool movie title -- Naw, it'd never sell! :) ) of me, up
by Hudson, Berlin, and Bolton, MA... Dufour's is on Lunenburg Rd -- the
road connecting Lancaster to Lunenburg, whadda surprise -- which also
connects RT 117 to RT 2.  From Providence, yer best bet would be to take
I-495 North to 117, 117 West into Lancaster center, and a right onto
Lunenburg Rd.... too bad it's Nov. already, it'd make a nice foliage run
on a weekend for you :)

He has lotsa stuff, but he also knows what he has, and doesn't flinch at
charging $$$ for it...  There's also a place in Hudson, MA, out on
Sudbury Rd (when RT 62 East -- which goes thru downtown Hudson -- makes
a left past the center of town, going straight puts you on Sudbury Rd)
There's a place called Rich's Used Auto Parts, and they too have some
older stuff; not as much as Dufour's, but they're a bit more reasonable.

Hope this helps!!


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:38:51 -0400
Subject: Re: $5000 engine job??

>Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
>after a 3,000 original oral estimate.

I'll spare you a sermon about getting this stuff in writing first... :-(

How detailed is the bill? For a $5,000 bill I'd expect a lot of detail.
If he doesn't have a parts breakdown listing what was done and how much
it all cost, he needs to write one up, along with labor time charges.
Then review that, see if it makes sense, haggle where necessary, etc.

Heck, he oughta also be able to justify where he got his $3,000 oral
estimate from and what extra details made it balloon to $5,000. Good
luck.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:54:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Die Cast Cars

Dan wrote:

> Nope, only 68 plastic promos are available and they are big bucks (not
 > to mention hard to find).

Can you get me more information on this?

Thanks in advance
Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:52:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco

Dave Paulison wrote:

> >I have a Maaco paint job on my 1968 442 and it is beautiful.  No
problems. > > How old is it?  I have a Maaco paint job on my car, and
it took less than a > year for it to look like crap.  The paint job is
now over seven years old, > and still looks like crap.  I would _NEVER_
take another car there.  The > Olds was the first and last paint job I
will ever have done by Maaco.

Well its 10 months old and still looks like new.  Maybe because I live
in California?  I have the 4 year coverage so if I start peeling, then
they will be repainting it.  Guaranteed!

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:00:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco -Reply

Blaine "still embarassed" Sanders wrote:

> The problem with Maaco and all these other in-n-out-in-an-hour places
is > that they don't take the time to prep right.  There's NO WAY you
could > completely prep a car (the right way) in an hour!  The quality
of a paint

Well I left the car with them for two weeks so that they could take the
time to get it right.  I think if a person is rushed to get this type of
work done, then you will get a half-hearted job.

> job is about 20% sprayer's ability, 20% paint quality, and 60% prep
work. >  Basically, if you don't take the time to sand and prep every
square inch > of that car and mask everything right, it doesn't matter
if you use the best > paint and it's applied perfectly.  Because
eventually it will flake or peel > off.  I can't see how these one-hour
places could possibly be able to do > it right, because it takes one
person at least 10-15 hours to do a decent > prep job.  And the more
people you have working on it, the more > chances there are that
something will get missed.  But the fact of the > matter is, they just
don't care.  Their motto is, "Quantity, Not Quality.

I was referred to this Maaco from a friend who restores cars for a
living. He has had no problems and got the work done to his
satisfaction.  I probably wouldn't have gone to any other "paint" house.

> Quality costs money."  At a one-hour joint, you get what you pay for.
> The *only* way I could see one of those paint jobs lasting is if you
spent > the time to do the prep work yourself.  Just my 2 cents...

Well I did spend quite a chunk of change.  Namely 1500.00.  This of
course included the bumpers being rechromed, some minor body work, and
painting.

Just my 150.000 cents :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:46:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

Previously I wrote:
>>I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
>>on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
>>booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
>>the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
>>diesel trains, etc.
>
>I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
>locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
>to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.

Hey, that was pretty interesting... I checked out the engine this
morning after getting off the train. Turns out that the nameplate
I was thinking is very much like the data plate on the firewall of
the car, but easier to read. This morning's engine was, if I remember
the title on the side right, No. 139, "Village of Glen Ellyn", which
the nameplate says is an F-40 unit which was built in November, 1979
at the GM Electro-Motive Division plant in LaGrange, Illinois. It had
a bunch of additional data stamped on it -- engine serial number and
that sort of thing -- but I was all bundled up against the cold and
didn't have a pen handy. Didn't see many option codes listed; probably
it just comes with a bench seat, radio and heater.  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:01:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Pioneering

Greg Beaulieu wrote,

> Chris Witt sent a very informative and entertaining message to the
list > today about the life of Ransom Olds and the early history of the >
Oldsmobile and REO companies.  Unfortunately it was very long - about
65K > - and bounced to me, although it did reach the digest. The
max-message > length parameter doesn't seem to work for the digest. > >
Anyhow, I have a dilemma. I would like interested people to see this,
but > I'm hesitant to chop it up and post it to the list because it
would still > be really big and probably fill a bunch of mailboxes.
Plus, digest people > would already have seen it. What do you all
think? Would 4 messages of > about 15K each about the early days of
Olds and REO be of interest and > not cause too much of a hassle? Let
me know and I'll follow the wishes of > the majority. The polls will be
open for a couple of days. Thanks!

Make it available for download.  I don't want any flags raised since I
am at work.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:55:50 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question

>I think the guages were transplanted in there.

A real gauge transplant involves rearranging a couple of leads in
the rear harness plug along with (obviously) exchanging the engine
warning switches with real sending units. Maybe someone forgot to
do that. Someone else here on the list wrote up instructions on how
this gauge transplant is supposed to be done.

>The T-Tops are very noisy.

Those can be tightened to a certain extent. I have a memo on this
somewhere I can send you...

>Another dumb question ... Isn't there supposed to be racks to hold
>the T-Tops??

Sorry, no. The cars were originally shipped with thickly padded
protective bags you were supposed to store the T-tops in in the
trunk. Mine were missing, and despite a photo of the covers in the
owners manual (I think that's where I saw it), the dealer couldn't
find any trace of them in his parts manual or accessory catalog.
If you find the bags somewhere, grab them!

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:12:02 -0400
Subject: Re: is $850 a deal for a 68 442?

Ken wrote:

> I went and looked at a 1968 442 today.  vin 3448781115797
> It was recently boom-towed without a front bumper so both headlight
> buckets are smashed.  It's a 4 speed car.  Missing engine and trans.
Car

Egads!  What did someone do to it?  The poor car :-(

> is in primer. Only rust is forward of rear wheels(very little). Floor
> boards as well as trunk floor are perfect, as is the frame.  Grill is
> missing.  Interior is fair(small rips on the seats).  The guy has the
> original exhaust manifolds, a rally pack tach/gauges, a 4 speed
console, > emblem for grill, MT flywheel, bell housing, clutch,
front/rear > bumper(with cutouts), 2 new quarter pannels, and more in
his basement. > All this for $850.

My goodness $850.00 for a car w/o an engine/tranny.  Maybe this car
would be a good parts car.  I wouldn't know.  However I purchased my 68
442 in January of this year for $1000.  It was basically owned by one
family (Mother first, son got it after she couldn't drive it).  It has a
little rust and some minor body damage.  The engine/tranny were there
(400 cid).  Original interior (some headline damage, minor seat rips due
to old threads cracking).

> I have 2 Muncie M-21's and a 400 "E" taking up space in my garage.
>
>  I'm prob. gonna buy it, but I wanted to get some input from you guys
> first. Any thoughts on this deal? Anyone have headlight buckets for
this > car?

No I don't but try Originality Plus in Cucamonga, CA (I hope I spelled
these correctly).  Sorry I don't have the number on me right now.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:13:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds carb jets

>Where can I get these puppies since they are now discontinued at the
>local auto store.
>
The only place I have been able to find Rochester Jets and Metering Rods
is from a GM dealer. I called every auto parts store in town before
finding this out.

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:17:28 -0400
Subject: Re: $5000 engine job??

Anonymous wrote:

> Just had the engine in my '71 442 W 30 rebuilt. The bill says $ 5000,
after > a 3,000 original oral estimate. > > Anybody have any experience
as to whether it's even possible to pay that > much for an engine
rebuild? On a scale of reasonable charges, is this off > the chart or
not all that unreasonable?

Egads!  Did they gold-plate the engine? :-)  Every one I talked to about
engine rebuilding tell me 800 - 1200 is a going rate.  What in the world
are they doing to even come close to the 3000 or even then 5000 price
tag?  I smell something fishy here.  You may have some legal problems
here.

Good Luck,

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:20:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Die Cast Cars

On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Chris Sparks wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> > Nope, only 68 plastic promos are available and they are big bucks
(not > > to mention hard to find). > Can you get me more information on
this?

When the cars were new, the factories often commissioned "promo" models
that were finished versions of the model kits you would buy to assemble
at a hobby store. Because they were finished, issued by the factory and
often in a special package they are now very collectible. I saw a '68
4-4-2 promo advertised in this month's JWO for $170.00. Lots of money
for a 1/25th scale plastic model by AMT or Jo-Han.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:29:13 -0400
Subject: '87 307 engine

Hey everyone,
       I was wandering if instead of swapping a 350 in my cutlass, could
I just have the 307 bored out? I know this wouldn't make it a 350 but
would I be able to get more horsepower out if it, especially if I
matched it with a bigger cam, changed the compression, and have the
heads ported? I would like to keep the computer in the car although I
don't really have to worry about emissions. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:32:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Carburetor problems with our Ninety Eight -64

Hey gang,

Did the 68 442 come standard with a Rochester Quadrajet carb?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:27:01 -0400
Subject: Tilt Front (was: Switch)


Now that's something I've been trying to do for a while is find a way to
tilt the front end of my 68 for ease of maintenence, and just thought
it'd be cool as well. Any ideas there? Where/how did you get a
fiberglass front end for your 71?

     VFN Fiberglass makes a 'glass one piece front end for a 70 442.  I
had
     to do a little 'glass work to make it into a 71.  Actually, the
     alleged "70" front end actually came with a 71 front bumper moulded
in
     (round park lights instead of rectangular), which actually made my
job
     easier.  VFN also has a kit available to hinge the front end, which

     consists of some bent tubing and brackets.  This unit is designed
for
     racing, so fit and finish is not up to show car standards.  It took
a
     lot of fabrication on my part to build brackets that worked, mount
the
     headlights, and get the 'glass to fit properly.  See the car in the

     October 85 issue of Car Craft.

     Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a similar piece for the 68.  I
_did_
     see a 68 442 once on which the owner had turned his _metal_ front
end
     into a one piece tilt unit!  It was so heavy that he had to install

     hydraulic cylinders to move it up and down.  The car was _very_
well
     done, however, and street driven daily ("And here are the rock
chips
     to prove it!").

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:37:17 -0400
Subject: Re: '87 307 engine

Andy Geeting wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>        I was wandering if instead of swapping a 350 in my cutlass,
could I > just have the 307 bored out? I know this wouldn't make it a
350 but would I > be able to get more horsepower out if it, especially
if I matched it with a > bigger cam, changed the compression, and have
the heads ported? I would like
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to keep the computer in the car although I don't really have to worry
about > emissions. > Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Andy wrote something that has prompted me to show my mechanical
ignorance by asking the following question:

How in the world can a person change the compression?  If it is easy
then how can I up the compression on the 68 442 (I believe it is rated
at 10.25)?

Chris Sparks
(I know I am power crazy.  Sheesh! :-))))

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:20:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch == 69 W-31

>Dave Paulison wrote:
>>
>> I found and saved a switch mounted by the gas pedal on that '68
convertible >> I found in the junkyard.  It mounts on a bracket that is
part of the plate >> that the gas pedal pivots under.  It's a couple
inches long, and has a shaft >> that sticks out the side.  When the gas
pedal is pressed far enough, it hits >> that shaft and moves the switch.
It's got a two wire connector that >> attaches to it, one wire pink, the
other orange.  Is it the kickdown switch >> for a TH400?  I'll keep it
if it is, because I want to put a TH400 in my >> Olds eventually. >> --
>> Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >>
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >>
dpauliso@gate.net >Dave, >The switch is most likley for the Super
Turbine 300 2 spd. I am not too >sure if it will work with your TH400,
but there is a real good chance >that it will, so it's worth a shot. You
probably also need the pedal, >and the wiring harness. >Josh

             ===============================================
>13.103et @102.35mph in a 1969 W-31 With street tires and full exhuast.
>Who says ya need a 455! Ya just need the heads!
             ===============================================

A 69 W-31, awesome!  I recently purchased a 69 W-31 in July.  It has the
 original engine and transmission, along with original paint and master
 cylinder.  I plan on restoring it, but would like to research and
document the car as thoroughly as possible.  The only things missing,
that I can tell so far, is the ram air hoses, since purchased from
Brothers Automotive, and the under bumper scoops, along with the radio.
I know Year One has the correct reproduction scoops for 68-69, but I
would like to find some originals, if at all possible.  The car is an
automatic with console, bucket seats, 3:91 posi, rallye gauges, light
blue exterior, which according to my 442 and W machine restoration
guide says it's a Toronado only color, and dark blue interior.  The vin
# is 336879M397850, which I have broken down.  I also have broken down
the data plate, but I don't have the info with me right now.  If anyone
can give me some information or some things to look for to help
document the car it would be greatly appreciated.  Also, I found the
build sheet under the front carpet, but it was wet and more or less
impossible to read. Thank you. Chris Smetana Terre Haute, IN 1969
Cutlass W-31 2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car 1971 Skylark custom
convertible - for sale 1989 Mustang 5.0 LX Hatchback

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:49:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch == 69 W-31

>The switch is most likely for the Super Turbine 300 2 spd.

I was going to say the same thing: I found a switch fitting this
description on our old '69 Pontiac wagon, which had a 350 Pontiac
hooked to a 2-speed automatic.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 04:26:54 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: ID Question

     If the engine seems to run okay (no rod-throwing noises, smoke
     belching out the back, milky oil, chronic leaks, etc) then I'd say
     it's well worth 2k.  The rear frame being welded was probably a
rust
     repair.  Does it look like they grafted on a frame from another
car?
     The rear frame rusting is pretty common on these.  I'd check the
rest
     of the car for bad rust though.  A cheap paint job may be there to
     hide something.  Take a small refrigerator magnet and go up and
down
     the body to check for bondo.

     The rally pack probably isn't going to be hard to fix.  It's
unlikely
     that the gauges themselves are bad.  If you get it I'd first get a
     manual and double check all the wiring, and check for good
connections
     (esp. the ground wire to the gauges.  That's one connection that
could
     affect them all), and then start checking sending units if it still

     acts up.

     Sorry I don't have any experience with T-tops, how to tighten them
or
     stop the noise.  I think they didn't come with racks, but did come
     with padded vinyl cases to slide them in.

     Tom Lentz

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: ID Question Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/6/96 6:03 PM

WOW a 403!! maybe it is worth the 2000 dollars. It has the rally gagues
but they don't work correctly. The tack idles at 1500 and shifts out of
passibg gear at 6000 rpm. The Alt lights seems to work but the
voltmeter says 12 volts and goes lower when the lights are turned on.
The oil pressure guage reads funny also. I think the guages were
trandplanted in there. The car drives real nice on the road though. The
T-Tops are very noisey. Car has air but crank windows. The paint was a
cheap job but the body looks straight. The only scary part is that the
rear frame has been welded. Another dumb question ... Isn't there
supposed to be racks to hold the T-Tops??


------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Moldings

Dan Williams wrote:
>
> I am still looking for what I believe is called quarter glass chrome
for > my 68 convertible (driver's side).  It is the piece of chrome (and >
weatherstriping) that seals the rear quarter window to the window in the >
door.  Is this piece the same for hardtops and convertibles?  Does >
anybody have it? > > -Dan Dan 	Check out Year One, they have exactly
what you are looking for. Ph # 1-800-950-9503

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com
'68 442

------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:48:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

At 06:08 PM 11/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>>
>> There was an article on this very thing in the Boston Globe last
year. >> One of these neighborhoods is near my home office, in
Marlborough, MA. >> A whole buncha 400 - 500K homes, strict rules on
whats parked out >> front.  And no working on cars in yer driveway --
not even a fully >> restored Curved Dash :P > >Talk about getting
carried away.  Geez.  Glad I don't live there!

The Nazis can march there but just let 'em try to work on their cars.

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:51:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

Chris Sparks wrote:
>
> I guess I don't have the problems of having to store my car.  I live
in So. > California.  So I get to drive my car all of the time ;-) > >
Chris Sparks

Chris, I noticed that you said you live in So. California and was
wondering what kind of car you had and how strict the smog inspection
is.  I'm in the military and am getting ready to move out there in the
spring and I'm thinking about bringing my '68 442 out.  The engine isn't
stock so that may be a problem.  Any ideas or sugestions would be
greatly appreciated.

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com
'68 442

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:47:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds carb jets

> The only place I have been able to find Rochester Jets and Metering
Rods is > from a GM dealer. I called every auto parts store in town
before finding

If you do order metering rods from the dealer, make sure the tips are
straight.  Due to packaging/handling problems, I had to send back a few
before two perfect ones came along.  They are shipped in small plastic
bags.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

At 10:46 AM 11/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Previously I wrote:
>>>I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
>>>on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
>>>booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
>>>the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
>>>diesel trains, etc.
>>
>>I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
>>locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
>>to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.
>
>Hey, that was pretty interesting... I checked out the engine this
>morning after getting off the train. Turns out that the nameplate
>I was thinking is very much like the data plate on the firewall of
>the car, but easier to read. This morning's engine was, if I remember
>the title on the side right, No. 139, "Village of Glen Ellyn", which
>the nameplate says is an F-40 unit which was built in November, 1979
>at the GM Electro-Motive Division plant in LaGrange, Illinois. It had
>a bunch of additional data stamped on it -- engine serial number and
>that sort of thing -- but I was all bundled up against the cold and
>didn't have a pen handy. Didn't see many option codes listed; probably
>it just comes with a bench seat, radio and heater.  :-)
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>
>
Gentlemen:

I remember reading some data on Kettering too, and the quick drying
paint. Boss Ket was walking down the street one day, in New Jersey, I
believe; and saw a lacqured box in a jewelry store window.  Ket inquired
as to the wherabouts of its manufacturer, and was directed to an alley
shop nearby. The shop was apparently making their own nitrocelluose
lacquer for these boxes.  Ket eventually had GM buy the rights, and GM
had the first fast drying paint in the industry.  This made for real
mass production, two tone paint: (do you know how Ket named Scotch
tape?) and I believe that their lacquer paint jobs was the number one
advantage they had where long term customer appeal was concerned.

If you like GM trivia:

        1. When did GM put the first metallic paint on their cars?

        2. What was it called at the time?

        3. What did the Eastern division of GM manufacture?

        4. What does the acronim DELCO stand for?

        5. Who, that would eventually be President of GM, came from
there (DELCO)?

        6. What was Ketterings worst engineering folly?

        7. GM was the probably last company in he world to discontinue
use of the Knight sleeve valve engine!                  How come? (Clue:
I'll but you never even knew they used them at all.  The next to last
user was the Willys Overland Company, in their Willys-Knight,
discontinued in December 1932.)

Yes, Electro-Motive would be found in La Grange, Illinois, ie, suburban
Chicago.

The EMD secret locomotive formula was that they didn't offer options, so
there were probably none on that data plate.  The data plate probably
just listed the facts.  Everyone had to buy the same design, and EMD
could produce locomotives at a far lower cost per unit that anyone else.
And at one time there were a lot of locomotive builders in the U.S. that
could't keep up.  Over the years they did offer locomotives in various
sizes (read that horsepowers) and in freight/passenger versions; but all
of each version was much the cookie cutter of the others.

It comes with bucket seats, two way radio and a heater.

G.M. bought the Cleveland engine company, around 1929, I think; and
their interest in Diesel engines began at that time.  I believe that I
read that by 1950 GM had more total diesel horsepower on the highway
than in all of the other uses combined, including GM (EMD) locomotives.

Non-GM trivia:
        1. Where was the first diesel engine (clue: it was a stationary
power plant) erected in North American                 made, who made
it, what did it do, and how long did it stay in service?

        2. What fuel did Dr. Otto Diesel intend to use in his engine?
(and diesel fuel does not cut it.)

        3. OK, one GM diesel trivia question. What was the name of the
engine they bought with the Cleveland                 co.

This is a very interesting net site.

Cliff Feiler
Oldsmobile Owner

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:03:37 -0400
Subject: Re: '87 307 engine

At 11:29 AM 11/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey everyone,
>       I was wandering if instead of swapping a 350 in my cutlass,
could I >just have the 307 bored out? I know this wouldn't make it a 350
but would I >be able to get more horsepower out if it, especially if I
matched it with a >bigger cam, changed the compression, and have the
heads ported? I would like >to keep the computer in the car although I
don't really have to worry about >emissions. >Any help is appreciated.
Thanks. > >Andy Geeting >geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu >'87 Cutlass Supreme
>'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham >'74 Delta 88 convertible > > >
I've believe I've seen crate motors from Chevrolet listed in the $1000.
range; and you can't even think of a rebore/rebuild for that kind of
money, and the crate motors have intake manifolds and oil pans; and are
easy to adapt to any other GM cars that used this basic style engine.  A
0.060" overbore doesn't net you very many new cubes for what it will
cost.

I built a 455 for my '84 Delta 88, and it cost a fortune.  However, I
tow a trailer a lot, and It was worth it for an extra 148 cubes.  I had
to replace the stupid T-H 200 too.

This intended as a piece for thought.

Cliff Feiler
Ex 307 Oldsmobile owner

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:09:04 -0400
Subject: Re: '87 307 engine

At 11:37 AM 11/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Andy Geeting wrote:
>
>> Hey everyone,
>>        I was wandering if instead of swapping a 350 in my cutlass,
could I >> just have the 307 bored out? I know this wouldn't make it a
350 but would I >> be able to get more horsepower out if it, especially
if I matched it with a >> bigger cam, changed the compression, and have
the heads ported? I would like >              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>
to keep the computer in the car although I don't really have to worry
about >> emissions. >> Any help is appreciated. Thanks. > >Andy wrote
something that has prompted me to show my mechanical ignorance by
>asking the following question: > >How in the world can a person change
the compression?  If it is easy then how >can I up the compression on
the 68 442 (I believe it is rated at 10.25)? > >Chris Sparks >(I know I
am power crazy.  Sheesh! :-)))) > > There are several ways to up the
compression in an engine.

        Use what amounts to a larger piston, more piston above the pin,
a domed piston, remove some of the top deck of the block.  Get heads
with smaller combustion chambers.  Where can you buy gasoline on a
regular basis good enough for a 10.25, much less more?  The use of a
blower (supercharger) will up the effective compression ratio.  That's
all I can think of.

Yours,

Cliff Feiler
Olds Owner

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #356
********************************
 
