To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/15/96 12:44:00 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #331


oldsmobile-digest         Tuesday, 15 October 1996      Volume 01 : Number 331


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Martin <paul@dtm.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:21:52 -0300
Subject: Re: HP ratings

        Go for it Nick I sure mark will be anxious to take an air 
chisel to everything he just spent 8 months doing.

Paul M

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:21:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Bronze paint, Red paint, Gray paint

>Darren,
>Several years ago I bought gold paint from Brothers. It was the ugliest gold, 
>not close to correct, that I'd ever seen. They argued that it was the proper 
>color. I had seen too many gold cutlass engines to know better. Their 
solution 
>was to send it back and they would give me credit. I didn't send credit, I
sent 
>cash and that's what I wanted. They wouldn't do it. A couple years later, at 
>Omaha Nationals, Steve Kinney, owner of Brothers, saw me and told me that I
was 
>right about the paint color, and gave me three cans of the "proper color".
>By this time, I had looked at about five different colors of gold at
Nationals, 
>and nobody was scored off for paint.
>I used Fusick's bronze for my buddy's 400 and it looked fine. They also
have the 
> silver paint for your wheels. 
>In summary, I don't use Brothers, or any of the others for that matter.
Fusick's 
>has everything you want, and they won't give you any hassle.
>
>Art Fuller
>
>
Last year I purchased 3 - 16oz. spray cans of Olds Bronze hi-temp engine
paint from Year One (part# WSH3).  The color looks very correct and I am
happy with it except that I think it may have been sitting around for awhile
because I had to clear the head/nozzle a few times to get a good fan without
clogging.  The can label reads Bill Hirsch-Engine Enamel HI-Temp Hi-Gloss
E-8123 Olds Bronze #06244004.  Manufactured for Bill Hirsch Automotive, 396
Littleton Ave., Newark NJ. 07103.  To reorder call 1-800-828-2061. 
Whether the last 3 lines of information are still current I don't know but
that's what is on the container.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:27:24 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 442 weight 

At 10:24 PM 10/12/96 -0300, Brad wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, how much does my '70 442 weigh?
>I have the OAI hood, 455 ci motor, AT, Bench seats, air conditioning, 
>and rear fin.  It is the Holiday coupe model.

According to my AMA Specifications Guide, a '70 4-4-2 (model 34487) weighs
3817 lbs (dry).  The weight Distribution is 2119 lbs in Front and 1698 lbs
Rear for a total of 3817 lbs.
The liquid weight is 122.0 lbs (for a full tank) of Fuel and 35.7 lbs for
Coolant.
Add 131 lbs. for Air Conditioning
Add 30 lbs. for TH-400
Add 30 lbs. for Power Steering
Add 32 lbs. for Power Brakes
Add 40 lbs for W30 Package (I thought the OAI hood was 18 lbs less than the
steel hood, the aluminum manifold weighs less, less sound deadener... must
be those W-30 emblems!?)

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
ndigiova@Direct.CA 

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:46:09 -0300
Subject: Another Question

Sat I was shoping at my local yard and bought a 1979 Bonneyville. The 
Sticker on the fan shroud said 400cid but the engine was an Olds. The 
number behind the water pump was 396021 With a big F. The number on the 
oil filler tube was 6342284. The heads have a J on them. The manifold has 
Oldsmobile cast into it right in front of the carb. Which is a qjet by 
the way. It has single exhaust. 
It started hard and ran poorly until it warmed a little. As I drove it 
home it lacked real power and would shoot flames out the exhaust. 
 Today I checked it out a little and sloved some of the problems. The 
dist vac advance hose was connected to the carb line on the charcoal 
canaster. It had cheap aftermarket wires on it and number three plug was 
sparking to the tin cover for the heat tube to the carb. As i was 
watching it run I could see the plugs on the drivers side moving in the 
holes. (they were all loose on the left bank). The choke plate was 
disconnected (why it starts so hard) but the housing adjustment was 
adjusted so rich that the fast idle stayed on and wouldn't allow the rear 
barrels to open. I fixed all the obvious problems except for the choke 
plate (didn't want to remove the cover on the carb today). What a 
difference!!! it now goes down the road with deturmination. The power 
curve is definatly off though. It won't set you back until 30 mph in low 
and when it goes to second it bogs again until approx 50. It isn't 
registered so i was limited in driving distance and area so I never let 
it get to high. I still have to connect the trans downshift cable (the 
bracket that it sits in is missing). 
 Now for the questions: What is this motor?? 
 Did it come in the Bonney???
 I don't trust the sticker on the shroud as it is obvious that the shroud 
was modified to accept the radiator so I don't know if  it is original or 
not. I didn't measure it but it looks like the spread between the heads 
is wider that wy 307.
 Was $150.00 too much??

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:57:15 -0300
Subject: 1970 Wiring help needed

The ignition switch on my '70 4-4-2 had been "creatively" bypassed by the 
previous owner when it failed sometime in the past. 

I replaced the switch last week and have corrected most of the problems,
but still have the ignition coil circuit to contend with.

Can anyone with a '70 or at least has a service manual help me out?

Thanks in advance. 

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:40:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Bronze paint, Red paint, Gray paint

> Interestingly, I spoke with Brother's about the bronze, and they claim that
> they offer the ONLY bronze that will pass OCA judging. I specifically asked,
> "So it's not too light, like halfway to 350 Gold?" No way, they assured me.
> If I remember correctly, Dan Williams had used their paint on an intake that
> he had at the Tri-States swapmeet, and it WAS too light. Right, Dan?

Yes!  Their paint is too gold colored.  I've seen several original 442 engines 
and none of their engine colors looked liked the brothers paint.  I would 
definitely try something else.  However, I have to stay with this color, 
because 
it is what I started with.

 
> Anyhow, on a semi-related note, The folks at Brothers said that the correct
> paint to use on the red aircleaners is Ford Red engine paint. They said
> that's what Fusick's sells as red aircleaner paint. Has anyone tried this?

I have the red air cleaner paint from Brother's and I am happy with that.

> 
> Haven't heard a peep from anyone about the gray SSII paint... No one's
> repainted their SSII's?

I have the Fusicks SSII paint and will let you know.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:02:10 -0300
Subject: '90 Dealer Data Book 

Hey all you '90 kinda guys

I did a really stupid thing at Hershey.  I bought a 1990 Olds Dealer Data
Book, but I already have one.  (You know you have too much stuff when you
don't remember what you have and what you don't!)  Anyway, my error in
judgement is your gain, as I am offering to anyone who's interested for $25
postage paid.  Please contact me directly at PHartlieb@aol.com.

Paul
The book guy.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:02:12 -0300
Subject: Fall Hershey, Part 2 

Well, this is late...  but I was so darn tired and I had so much stuff to do
at home because of living at Hershey that I only got around to posting this
now.  Let's see... Part 2 would have to be Thursday.  Rain Wednesday nite
didn't really make the mud any worse than it was on Wednesday.  Covered some
of the car corral.  Not much in the line of Oldsmobiles there.  Covered the
entire Green Field.  Not much of interest here, except we saw a brand new,
'77 Chevrolet Monza Spyder with 61 miles on it, window sticker still glued to
the window, for something like $14,500.  Saw a '50 Olds steel bodied woody
wagon, but it wasn't for sale, just the guys transportation to Hershey.  Must
be nice.  Had Pizza Hut pizza for lunch.  We walked all day and did the
entire field.  My walking companion (female) waited until we were almost done
with the field before she made her first purchase.  A doily.  And she bought
from a friend of hers from the Buick club.  Like she couldn't have done that
at a meeting.  Should have smacked her.  Went out for dinner with some OCA
friends to Rod's Roadhouse.  It's a dive.  The waitress was a tramp.  We had
a good time, but we're never going back.  Only got home at 10, went to bed at
10:30 (which is unheard of for me) and didn't even read the mail.  That's why
this wasn't posted Thursday.

Paul  

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:12:52 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: HP ratings  

The general rule was a max. of 10:1 or 10 pounds per 1 hp.  If the car had a 
9:1 or 8:1 ratio (not compression but weight:hp) then it was frowned upon by 
the insurance companies.  So isn't it surprising how the '70 W-30 weighs 
approx. 3800 lbs. and gets a hp rating of 370 hp.  I would tend to think 
that the magazines (Car Life, Moter Trend etc.) rated the cars on hp exactly 
the way they were told to rate them by the manufacturer.

     This is exactly correct.  In fact, I believe it was Muscle Car Review 
     (or whatever they were called at the time...) which ran an article 
     concerning the "real" horsepower of musclecar engines verses the 
     manufacturers rating (which, through the auto companies' own 
     admissions, were fudged for insurance and corporate mandate reasons - 
     just look at the NHRA factored HP for certain stock class engines).  I 
     seem to recall that the 70 W-30, as installed with 328 deg cam, OAI, 
     recalibrated distributor and carb, and "F" heads, pulled a real-world 
     440 HP, verses the 370 HP factory rating.  If nothing else, the 
     article makes for good bench racing :)
     
     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:05:36 -0300
Subject: Re: CA smog laws 

I don't know if I have the A.I.R. injectors on my '70 442.  How could I 
tell if I do?  I DO have the NOX device ( I was wondering what that 
sticker was in my glove box!!!) therefore making it a CA car.  But you 
mentioned that cars with ram air, etc, didn't have that, but I have ram 
air OAI hood and equipment and I have that sticker.  Whats the deal
     
If you could help me further, I would really appreciate it. 
thanks
Brad
     
     Brad,
     
     Your 70 does not have A.I.R.  This was only used on the 66-67 
     California Oldsmobiles and was not used again until 73(?).  A.I.R. 
     (stands for Air Injection Reactor) is more commonly known as an air 
     pump.  The theory behind A.I.R. is that additional air is routed into 
     the hot exhaust to help complete the burning of normally unburned 
     hydrocarbons (contrary to popular belief, it is _not_ intended to 
     simply "dilute" the exhaust.  Usually (read, "on Chevies"), the air 
     pump output is plumbed into fittings in the exhaust manifolds, thus 
     the obvious concern that headers will not have the proper fittings to 
     allow the owner to retain the A.I.R. system.
     
     Interestingly enough, Olds V-8s actually have the A.I.R. fittings 
     plumbed into the exhaust ports of the cylinder head, thus negating the 
     rationale for restricting the use of headers on A.I.R. equipped cars 
     anyways!  (Don't expect this logic to work with an emissions 
     inspector, however)  You will note that the top surface of the head 
     (the roof of the exhaust port), just above the exhaust port output, 
     has a relatively flat, circular boss approximately 3/4" in diameter.  
     Cars originally equipped with A.I.R. will have had this boss machined 
     for a flare nut fitting into which the tubing air manifold is 
     attached.  Also note that the inside of the exhaust port has a 
     matching boss (to allow enough "meat" to machine this hole), which is 
     the first thing to go when porting the heads.
     
     As for the NOX device, I'm sorry to say that this was required on all 
     cars registered in CA, reguardless of whether or not they were 
     original California cars.  Unfortunately, the presence of the NOX 
     device alone is not proof.  The fact that this device was installed on 
     your original OAI car is just proof that the original owner (or, at 
     least the one who registered the car in California) was unaware of the 
     loophole (it is not well publicised) and was taken in by his 
     inspection station (which stands to make a small sum from the sale and 
     installation of the unit and therefore is not likely to try to talk 
     the owner out of it!).
     
     Just out of curiosity, does your car still have the device?  If so, 
     which type is it - just the two caps, the electronic unit, or the temp 
     sensor unit?
     
     By the way, does CA still only require emissions inspections for cars 
     up to 20 years old (as well as any car brought into the state for the 
     first time), or did they transition to the 1968-and-newer testing 
     threshold?
     
     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
     66 442 (with A.I.R.)
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:02:15 -0300
Subject: Fall Hershey, Part 4, the final chapter 

Hit the show field about 7:15 Saturday.  Friend took me in his '57 Chevy 210
4-door sedan, black and white, straight six, powerglide.  Retired school
marns car, answers to the name of Miss Marie.  He thinks it's real neat, I
tell him it doesn't even make a good police car candidate.  Stood by the
stadium until 10AM and watch ALL the cars drive in (and froze).  Saw lots of
Oldsmobiles.  A bunch of '57s, a '61 Starfire, a pair of Dubonnet Toronados
(a '66 and a '67), a cherry, one owner '65 442 convertible, a pair of '70 442
W-30s (a hardtop and a convertible), a '70 W-31 hardtop, a '51 Ninety Eight
convertible, a '68 Hurst/Olds.  Those are the ones that stand out.  Went back
to the Green Field for some more of that Pizza Hut pizza (I'm about sick of
pizza, and guess what we had for dinner tonite!), then went over to my buddy
who still had his '50 in the car corral.  Headed for Chocolate World to get
some of those chocolate chip cookies, then it was back to the Chevy and time
to go home

Paul
another summer shot to pieces

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:02:14 -0300
Subject: Fall Hershey, Part 3 

Well, we're slowly getting caught up.  Got there Friday morning and the main
parking lot was sold out!  Had to go down to one of the Hershey Foods offices
and have my mother hit up one of her bosses for some VIP parking.  Did some
more of the car corral.  Real nice '64 Starfire convertible, red, white top,
black interior, air, cruise, loaded for $16,500.  Over a few rows was a not
so nice '63 Starfire convertible, maroon, white top, maroon interior, air,
pretty well equipped, lots of ripples and waves, paint wasn't too exciting,
it had a crack in the padded dash so they put a metal strip there to cover
it, then put one at the same place on the other side to make it look factory,
$14,500.  I'd have bought the '64.  '64 Ninety Eight Town Sedan, beige with a
green interior (EEK!)  Fairly well equipped and clean, but super ugly for
something like $4800.  My OCA buddy had his '50 88 wagon there, need
everything cosmetic plus some mechanical for $8500.  Across the row from him
was a '41 70 series, 6 cylinder, deluxe factback coupe, unrestored, two tone
green, hydramatic drive, 33000 original miles for $14,500 which we all
thought was high, but it's now on it's way so Sweden or Holland or one of
those places overseas.  '72 Cutlass Supreme convertible, I wasn't impressed
with it, for $9500.  '69 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe, an unattractive beige
metallic, but a nice car, for around $11,000.  I'd only want half that (but
probably wouldn't get it) for my '67 and it's a prettier color.  Finished the
Chocolate Field and did the Chocolate Field Annex.  Made one last pass down
the main road in the White Field and stopped with Al Sandy.  Bought a '66
Comfortron manual (email me Sparky) then went home.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 20:54:34 -0300
Subject: The W31

Went up and looked @ that alleged W31 again. 

Met with the owner face-to-face for the first time. Seemed to be a 
fairly reasonable guy except that he kept spouting out words like 
RARE and W31 all the time. Yeah, and visions of candy canes dancing 
in his head...

The owner was in a hurry to go somewehere else of course, but 
I got to hear all about the guy up at the St. Ignace show who 
said this car would be worth ten grand with a paint job, AGAIN.

Did he *see* the car? Didn't think so. 

"So what are you gonna do with the car, are you gonna restore it, 
or sell it, or what?" I asked.

"Well, I don't wanna hear no bullshit 8-900 dollar offers or $1,500 or 
$2000 even. I know what this car would be worth if restored." 

Hoo-boy. 

"Well, I'm not saying you've got a $100 parts car here, but...."

I explained to him how my $$/interest level in his car was inversely 
proportional to the amount of aftermarket-ness applied. 

He said he knew all the aftermarket stuff was "bad, but you can always 
find the original stuff."

"Can I?" 

I asked him if he realized how *hard* it actually is to locate the 
genuine W31 items in question, much less buy them up. I explained how I 
am better than most at locating things like this and it has still taken 
me a LONG time to get my 68 built, and it *still* isn't going yet.

He fidgeted a bit and leveled with me: "Well, the car has been sitting 
just the way it is for the last two years for that very reason."

Okay, I said, so assuming it *is* a W31 and I want to make it stock, 
then you're the first to admit I've got a long road ahead of me, right?

Yup, he agreed. 

OKAY! Glad we got that out of the way. 

"So," I ventured, "It really makes no sense for me to get into a car 
like this for more than $1500 or so. It just needs SO much..."

(Last comment met with much frowning and brow furrowing...)

"Maybe next weekend we can throw a battery in it and go for a ride and 
if it runs really good then I could see *maybe* $2000."

"Well, Shoot, I'd sign it over right now for $2,000."

"Not that I'd do it necessarily, but it's good to know we're both 
playing in the same ball field here."

So away I went, I told him I'd review my finances & we'd get together 
maybe soon.

With an actual concrete asking price in mind I went back to the car, 
looked and discovered:

336870M345815 VIN

395558 2 Block with 30M345815 stamped on pad *#'s match* (he knew that)

6 heads Can't ID as W31 heads w/o pulling & measuring intake valves. Or?

OAI Hood w/cracks around the LH twist lock. Blue w/ white stripes.

W35 wing in place, looked fine.

Cool mirrors, do all '70s have those wild chiseled-looking mirrors?

Trim Tag missing from cowl *SUSPISCIOUS*

Front Disc Brakes

PS/PB Hey, wait, aren't W31 cars cammed real radical, M brakes-only?

Of course, the aftermarketness: Holley Street Dominator Intake, Holley
4V, Moroso aircleaner, M/T finned Al racovers, Malory Ignition box, 
Hays Voltage Regulator, Mallory Coil, Stickers all over the place... 
Yeah, No Fear, man!

Turbo 350 trans: Curses, couldn't see the ID plate

W27 12-bolt rearend: Hmm, what's this stamping? SA? Wow, a RARE 2.78 
open W27 rear end?! Nah, the ole slap a W27 cover on any crappy old diff 
trick. Seen that before.... Thanks, Scott! Your fax helped me nail that 
one.

No rear sway bar, no front sway bar. 

The fuel line *did* make a weird little C-clamp like turn under the 
passenger door. 

But Scott, your fax of the manual states this is 'EXC. W-31'

So *is* it or *isn't* it a W31?!?!

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4-spd / 68 455 
 '80 GP Parts Runner / 350 Oldspowered!

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 01:41:46 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: vacuum operated heater valve  

I think I'm on the wrong end of this argument (thinking that the valve 
is normally closed until you apply vacuum -- were that to be true there 
would be a lot more beaters running around with no heat as soon as they 
spring a vacuum leak), but let me point out that you _can_ have heat 
with A/C running. This is what the BI-LEVEL setting is for, among other 
things, and even with the controls set to straight A/C or MAX, sliding 
the temperature lever will get you heat. So the A/C setting is not a 
flat override-and-close of the heater hose valve.
     
     Sorry, Andy.  I've got to disagree.  The BI-LEVEL setting simply 
     routes the air (of the same source temperature - not allowing for duct 
     heat loss) to both the floor and the dash vents simultaneously.  The 
     air temp selection is done with one of the levers and the distribution 
     routing is done with the other.  Note that I am talking about 60s and 
     early 70s cars here.  Late model cars have unbelievably complex HVAC 
     systems.  My wife's 92 Buick GS has separate driver and passenger temp 
     controls (an absolutely outstanding development, as she always likes 
     it warmer than I do!).
     
     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 01:56:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question 

In a message dated 96-10-14 00:49:29 EDT, you write:

>
>Sat I was shoping at my local yard and bought a 1979 Bonneyville. The 
>Sticker on the fan shroud said 400cid but the engine was an Olds. The 
>number behind the water pump was 396021 With a big F. The number on the 
>oil filler tube was 6342284. The heads have a J on them. The manifold has 
>Oldsmobile cast into it right in front of the carb. Which is a qjet by 
>the way. It has single exhaust. 
>It started hard and ran poorly until it warmed a little. As I drove it 
>home it lacked real power and would shoot flames out the exhaust. 
> Today I checked it out a little and sloved some of the problems. The 
>dist vac advance hose was connected to the carb line on the charcoal 
>canaster. It had cheap aftermarket wires on it and number three plug was 
>sparking to the tin cover for the heat tube to the carb. As i was 
>watching it run I could see the plugs on the drivers side moving in the 
>holes. (they were all loose on the left bank). The choke plate was 
>disconnected (why it starts so hard) but the housing adjustment was 
>adjusted so rich that the fast idle stayed on and wouldn't allow the rear 
>barrels to open. I fixed all the obvious problems except for the choke 
>plate (didn't want to remove the cover on the carb today). What a 
>difference!!! it now goes down the road with deturmination. The power 
>curve is definatly off though. It won't set you back until 30 mph in low 
>and when it goes to second it bogs again until approx 50. It isn't 
>registered so i was limited in driving distance and area so I never let 
>it get to high. I still have to connect the trans downshift cable (the 
>bracket that it sits in is missing). 
> Now for the questions: What is this motor?? 
> Did it come in the Bonney???
> I don't trust the sticker on the shroud as it is obvious that the shroud 
>was modified to accept the radiator so I don't know if  it is original or 
>not. I didn't measure it but it looks like the spread between the heads 
>is wider that wy 307.
> Was $150.00 too much??
>
>
>

The motor is a 73 or later 455. The J-heads were the smog big block heads,
and big blocks, due to their taller deck height, have a wider intake.  The
455's last year was 76 so it couldn't have in the bonneville. $150 was a good
deal. Now just get some better heads for it and you'll have some real power.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:00:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question

On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Dana and Mary Taylor wrote:

> Sat I was shoping at my local yard and bought a 1979 Bonneyville. The 
> Sticker on the fan shroud said 400cid but the engine was an Olds. The 
> number behind the water pump was 396021 With a big F. The number on the 
> oil filler tube was 6342284. The heads have a J on them. The manifold has 
> Oldsmobile cast into it right in front of the carb. Which is a qjet by 
> the way. It has single exhaust. 

That casting number identifies it as a 455, the J heads are a mid-70s 
smogger style. Somebody's done a transplant...

> It started hard and ran poorly until it warmed a little. As I drove it 
> home it lacked real power and would shoot flames out the exhaust. 

Geez, some hot rodders pay big bucks to make their cars do that... :)

>  Today I checked it out a little and sloved some of the problems. The 
> dist vac advance hose was connected to the carb line on the charcoal 
> canaster. It had cheap aftermarket wires on it and number three plug was 
> sparking to the tin cover for the heat tube to the carb. As i was 
> watching it run I could see the plugs on the drivers side moving in the 
> holes. (they were all loose on the left bank). The choke plate was 
> disconnected (why it starts so hard) but the housing adjustment was 
> adjusted so rich that the fast idle stayed on and wouldn't allow the rear 
> barrels to open. I fixed all the obvious problems except for the choke 
> plate (didn't want to remove the cover on the carb today). What a 
> difference!!! it now goes down the road with deturmination. The power 
> curve is definatly off though. It won't set you back until 30 mph in low 
> and when it goes to second it bogs again until approx 50. It isn't 
> registered so i was limited in driving distance and area so I never let 
> it get to high. I still have to connect the trans downshift cable (the 
> bracket that it sits in is missing). 

Man, those Olds Rocket V-8s are tough... even runs with the plugs moving 
around!

>  Now for the questions: What is this motor?? 

455 Rocket V-8
>  Did it come in the Bonney???

Nope

>  I don't trust the sticker on the shroud as it is obvious that the shroud 
> was modified to accept the radiator so I don't know if  it is original or 
> not. I didn't measure it but it looks like the spread between the heads 
> is wider that wy 307.
>  Was $150.00 too much??

It runs!?! No way is it too much then!!!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Ed Rogers <rhubarb@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:59:06 -0300
Subject: HELP !! Can't Get My 442 to Shut Off ! 

Help !!!

I finally got my '69 442 convertible running tonight (after 6 months).  It
needed a new battery cable and a new exhaust manifold.

Anyway, I get it cranked up, drive around the block, pull it back into the
driveway, and when I turned the key, it just kept running.  I tried turning
the key many times and it just would not shut down.  Finally, it stalled
when I tried to put it in gear.

Here is the story on my car.

1969 442 convertible
73-76 455 Olds engine with stock electronic ignition

One of the things I had to fix was a wire that came off the distributor.
It came from the terminal marked "BAT".  It was connected to a terminal
block attached to the firewall (below the power brake booster).  It was
impossible to get this wire back on the terminal block so I ran it straight
to the battery.  What does this wire do?  Could it be part of the problem?

The ignition switch is pretty shot (I can pull the key out in any position)
but last time I drove it,  it worked fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ed


- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Interested in Satellite TV, Home Theatre, Muscle Cars, Recording Studios,
or Computers? Me Too !
*NEW* Carver Ribbon/NHT1259 Project Page *NEW*
Check out my Web Page "http://www.mindspring.com/~rhubarb"

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:08:53 -0300
Subject: A Rallye 350?

Wow,

Went back to check on that '70 OAI aircleaner that everyone seems to 
have taken quite an interest in. Got to looking a bit closer at the car 
whose trunk the aircleaner lived in (remember? a 70 post coupe), and....

What's this? The rear bumper *does* have the 442 exhaust cutouts. 
Duhhhh... How could I have overlooked this before? Hey, it's painted in 
primer just like the rest of the car. Wait, the corner is showing... 
Yellow paint underneath!

Hmm, let's open the hood and take a look at what *used* to be the engine
compartment (engine long gone, Ch*vy motor mounts in place, Ch*vy 
sticker on windshield, even). The hood is that same yellow on the 
inside!

Waddya know, the trim tag was still there on this one:

    BODY BY FISHER
ST70 33277LAN390951 BDY
TR 900          - - PNT
   03B

VIN # 332770M390161

Interesting paint code, eh? Thought I remembered seeing something about
the Sebring Yellow Rallye 350's having the - - paint code. Yes?

This one had manual brakes, no power steering... Basically all the
stuff I was hoping to find in that W31!

So, a quick look at the handy production charts in Year One's catalog
tells me that if it's a Cutlass Rallye 350 Post Coupe, it'd be one 
of oh, 160. 

Anyone seen a real Rallye 350 bumper before? This one seemed metallic
to the touch, not some thick latexy coating like I expected the Endura
to be... Never seen the real thing, so don't know.

Now I gotta get ahold of the owner and try to secure this car!

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4-spd / 68 455 
 '80 GP Parts Runner / 350 Olds

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:52:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: HP ratings 

Another "trick" manufacturers used to get around the horsepower/weight 
law was to rate engines at any old rpm they saw fit, not necessarily the 
rpm at which peak power occurred.  For example it might say a hemi makes 
425hp at 5000rpm..but was capable of at least a thousand more rpm at 
which the figure was more like 500hp.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:22:41 -0300
Subject: Ignition Switch Question

The came from Ed Rogers but bounced because majordomo thought he was 
asking for something from me... reposting on his behalf.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Date:	Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:59:06 -0300
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From:	Ed Rogers <rhubarb@mindspring.com>
Subject: HELP !! Can't Get My 442 to Shut Off !

Help !!!

I finally got my '69 442 convertible running tonight (after 6 months).  It
needed a new battery cable and a new exhaust manifold.

Anyway, I get it cranked up, drive around the block, pull it back into the
driveway, and when I turned the key, it just kept running.  I tried turning
the key many times and it just would not shut down.  Finally, it stalled
when I tried to put it in gear.

Here is the story on my car.

1969 442 convertible
73-76 455 Olds engine with stock electronic ignition

One of the things I had to fix was a wire that came off the distributor.
It came from the terminal marked "BAT".  It was connected to a terminal
block attached to the firewall (below the power brake booster).  It was
impossible to get this wire back on the terminal block so I ran it straight
to the battery.  What does this wire do?  Could it be part of the problem?

The ignition switch is pretty shot (I can pull the key out in any position)
but last time I drove it,  it worked fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ed


- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Interested in Satellite TV, Home Theatre, Muscle Cars, Recording Studios,
or Computers? Me Too !
*NEW* Carver Ribbon/NHT1259 Project Page *NEW*
Check out my Web Page "http://www.mindspring.com/~rhubarb"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:04:43 -0300
Subject: Re: vacuum operated heater valve  

>Sounds reasonable enough, but I can see the engineers doing it another way.  
>Ordinarily (ie non A/C cars) I think there is not a valve there (see other 
>msgs about this).  I can see someone thinking, "well, it's ok to be open 
>normally (novac), but we really need to turn the darn thing off when the 
>A/C is on...", so they run an extra line to it to apply vac when the A/C 
>goes on.  Sort of a more "afterthought" approach.

Okay, well, for the record, I went to my favorite auto parts place,
we looked up the numbers for both a '68 and '82 Cutlass heater valve,
just for comparison, and verified immediately that... both were out
of stock. Aren't computers wonderful?

But their staff also swears up and down that the valves are normally
open, not closed, until vacuum is applied, so there you have it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:01:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: vacuum operated heater valve  

>     Sorry, Andy.  I've got to disagree.  The BI-LEVEL setting simply 
>     routes the air (of the same source temperature - not allowing for duct 
>     heat loss) to both the floor and the dash vents simultaneously.

Oh, goody! We need to elevate this to a flamewar. We haven't had a good 
one since, jeez, the AMSOILL days, at least!  :-)  No, seriously, I will
have to dig out an old owner's manual to find a quote for sure, but
I am pretty certain that the BI-LEVEL setting _is_ engineered to give
two different partial-heat settings, using the A/C compressor for
dehumidifying as well. The slightly-cooler mixture comes out of the
face-level vents; the warmer air comes out the bottom. (This is
assuming that you've got the temperature slide set to something other
than full cold.)

>  The 
>     air temp selection is done with one of the levers and the distribution 
>     routing is done with the other.  Note that I am talking about 60s and 
>     early 70s cars here.

Yup. All the way to the '80's, in fact.

>  Late model cars have unbelievably complex HVAC 
>     systems.  My wife's 92 Buick GS has separate driver and passenger temp 
>     controls (an absolutely outstanding development, as she always likes 
>     it warmer than I do!).

Yes, I'm a firm believer in throwing more microprocessors at the problem
until it does what you want it to do.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:17:15 -0300
Subject: '67 442 questions....

Over the weekend, I stopped at the local gas-n-go to fill-up the 
wife's car.  As I pulled in, I noticed a goldish mid-60's Cutlass, 
and parked at the pump next to it. 442 emblem on the trunk, with a CS 
also.  Getting curious, I walk around the wife's car to get a better 
look.  Not too much rust (everything whole, except for the panel 
between the windshield and the louvered hood), looked generally 
solid, no plates.  Hmmm.

Driver comes out of the service station, and I pose the question -- 
is it a '66?  With tri-power?  Nope, itsa '67.  He then proceeds to 
ask me if I think its real, because he's never heard of a '67 442, 
nobody he talked to knew of a pre-68 442, couldn't find it in his 
book of cars, etc.  After I make believe I know a little something 
about 442s, and tell him the '66es have tri-power (he seemed to think 
was in GTOs only), he pops the hood.  Hmmm, correct gold peeeking out 
in a few places, oil around the valve covers (a complete shock to all 
of us - right?), and a 442 sticker on the valve cover stating 400ci, 
350 hp, premium fuel only. Black fender liners and no ductwork from 
between the headlights.  Seems he had just been forced to buy it 
earlier that day from a guy selling a '66 LeMans who would only part 
with the pair, not just the Pontiac, for $1000.  He said the car sat 
for the last 11 years, and needed a fuse replaced to get it started.  

He then asked me if I knew anything about a Climate Control  
carb.  The air cleaner had an odd shape (similar to a horseshoe) with 
openings on both sides.  Had a sticker that said Command Climate 
Control or something like that.  What is that?  Is it standard on the 
'67?  Or is it a California thing?

After a few more minutes of looking at the car, and some oddities 
like a ton of some gunk around the front and rear windows where the 
vinyl top meets, I plug Bryce's web page and the list, and he departed.

As I watched the exhaustless car leave the gas station, the thought 
of he just bought the car involuntarly for what he figured was $600 
and would probably have parted with it since he _really_ wanted the 
LeMans entered my mind.  What do you think?  Should I have offered 
him $600 for the car?  I have a general idea of where he lives, and 
may be able to find the car if it may be worth the effort.  The 
thought that I may have missed a good opportunity is sorta bugging 
me.  What do you think?

Thanks.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:07:51 -0300
Subject: To Everyone who attended Chicago Fuddrucker's Meeting! 

Sorry to hit the whole list with this, but I need to hear from everyone
who attended our Fuddrucker's get-together on October 6th. Contact me
via email as soon as possible, please, and send me your postal address.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:09:55 -0300 
Subject: Re: Bronze paint, Red paint, Gray paint

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>

>Haven't heard a peep from anyone about the gray SSII paint... No one's
>repainted their SSII's?

  When I painted my junkyard special SSIII's I painted them a gray metallic
with a paint code from a NAPA paint can.  I got the paint code from Ron Memmer
when I was at his place buying parts once.  He had used that color on a
'71 442 convertible he was restoring.  I think it has a little more metallic
than what should be "correct" but I think it looks good on my black car.
I can get the paint code if you want, I still have the can at home somewhere.

btw, Ron had some cars that he had restored that were "interesting".  He had
a '66 or '65 cutlass four door that he had done up in Hurst colors, white
with
the gold stripes, and gold SSII wheels.  This was his "parts chaser" car.  He
also had a '68 cutlass 2-door he had given the '69 Hurst white/gold treatment
to.
This car also had the '69 Hurst "mailbox" ram air scoop grafted to
the hood.  Although obviously not correct, they were interesting
none the less.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:43:06 -0300 
Subject: RE: "Rebel of the Road" (aka "Hot Rod")

>> I saw a movie recently that I believe is the same one your talking
>>about.  Was the other main car a primered '55 driven by two
>> young guys?  If so it was on VH-1 a couple of weeks ago (on a Saturday).
>>I can't remember, but it seems like the name was
>>slightly different.  I'll check my old TV Guides and see what it was
called.  I
 >>thought it was kind of hard to follow,  but the
>> cars were great.  The 442 was kind of a yellow color I think.
>>
>>Steve

The movie your refering to is Vanishing Point.  The Car was a '70 GTO
Judge.  I stumbled across it on VH-1 also.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:53:05 -0300
Subject: MD OldsClub Meeting - Oct 20

The "first" meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on
Oct 20 around 2PM at my house in Perry Hall, MD, Just north of
Baltimore and east of Towson.  Anyone interested in joining, 
e-mail me and I'll send directions and my phone#.

No money will be taken, this is a who is interested meeting and
see who wants to do what, where, when, brainstorming meeting.

Watch the Ravens, eat pizza, drink beer & soda, talk Oldsmobiles

Life is good.

 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 88 LSS 
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:18:01 -0300
Subject: Re: vacuum operated heater valve

> I think I'm on the wrong end of this argument (thinking that the 
> valve is normally closed until you apply vacuum -- were that to 
> be true there would be a lot more beaters running around with no 
> heat as soon as they spring a vacuum leak), 

That's probably the best argument I've heard for a normally
open heater valve. :)


> let me point out that you _can_ have heat with A/C running. 
> This is what the BI-LEVEL setting is for, among other things, 
> and even with the controls set to straight A/C or MAX, sliding
> the temperature lever will get you heat. So the A/C setting is 
> not a flat override-and-close of the heater hose valve.

Hmm... I won't argue with that, but now I'm left wondering 
when the valve would close.  


> will try some theories this weekend... more later...

I ment to do the same, but I spent all weekend helping people
move in/out/around their respective homes.  I even got stuck 
driving the stupid 1970 Ford pickup turned U-HAUL with no AC,
standard trans (with a NASTY clutch), no PS, no PB, and no 
second gear syncro's...  I must have left a nasty pile of gear 
shavings in the bottom of the trans trying to get into second... 
And to top it off, one of my "buddies" gets to drive my Olds 
over there behind me... 

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:19:10 -0300
Subject: RE: Interior questions 

 
I was talking to ACC's rep at Carlisle a while ago.  He said Year One 
sells their carpet and because of their buying power you can buy it  
cheaper at Year One than direct from ACC.  As to ACC quality I was told by a  
professional Corvette restorer that ACC is easily the best quality, for  
what thats worth..... 
 
   
>You might try: 
>Auto Custom Carpets (A.C.C.) 
>1-800-352-8256 
>P.O. Box 1350 
>Anniston, AL  36202 
>Web site:  http://www.bellnet.com/acc.htm 
   
 
Todd Morris 
71 442

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:24:50 -0300
Subject: Re: More on Rallye 350 Show... 

   
Can you comment on Dick Miller's newsletter?  I assume there is a charge... 
Is it worth the subscription?  What sort of content?  Sounds like it  
might be useful, particularly to the performance oriented bunch of us.... 
 
 
>this show and really does a nice job.  I found about about this show in Dick 
>Millers newsletter a few years ago.  I was wondering in anybody on the list 
>was going. 
   
>Hope to see some of you there, 
>Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com 
>79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show  
>86 442 -> Summer Driver  
>79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:45:28 -0300
Subject: Re: The W31 

In a message dated 96-10-14 00:59:27 EDT, you write:

>Front Disc Brakes
>
>PS/PB Hey, wait, aren't W31 cars cammed real radical, M brakes-only?
>
>

I'm not sure about all the specifics, but the W-31 could be had with disc
braks. Just not Power disc brakes. So yes they had manual brakes, but they
were manual discs.
DrkSole
 73 cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:58:44 -0300
Subject: John Rock to retire

The following is from the electronic version of USAToday coutesy 
Meyer Stolberg (a digest member....)

__________

Head of GM's Oldsmobile to retire

Oldsmobile General Manager John Rock will retire by year's end,
Oldsmobile confirmed late Sunday. The Lansing State Journal reported
that a replacement will be named today. The news apparently took GM
executives by surprise. But it comes as sales continue to slide:
Oldsmobile sold over 1 million cars and trucks in 1986, vs. an
estimated 330,000 this year. There was no word on whether Oldsmobile
would remain independent. GM this year combined Pontiac and GMC. 

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0300
Subject: 3.55 rear

>Tomorrow I get to pull the 31-spline axles out of my old carrierless 
gearless
>rear end (currently under the car) and install them into the
>new one.

>Anyone done this before?

>-Darren Shroeger

Bearing retainer (O-type) or C-clip style rear?
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Dana Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:10:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question

Ok now for a couple of more stupid questions reguarding my 455. What is a 
guesstimate of HP rating. and second What other heads could i put on it 
for increased HP.	
 Thanks

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:00:00 -0300
Subject: 442 vs. possom

>I walk closer and notice that it is a a huge (about
>2 ft. in length including the tail) rat that must have crawled up in the
>Olds engine compartment during the night.
>Nick DiGiovanni

Sounds like a possom (Opossum) to me.  They look just like a big rat and are 
common in suburban areas.  Make sure it didn't bend/crack the fan blade! 
 Congratulations on your trophy.  Should have had it stuffed and mounted on 
the hood.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:28:05 -0300
Subject: Vista-Cruiser parts needed (*sigh*) 

I was driving along a row of parked cars yesterday at a gas station when one
of them backed straight out and into the rear quarter panel of my
Vista-Cruiser.  The quarter panel is pushed in about two inches and the rear
bumper somehow got wrenched back and down so it's ruined.  This was, of
course, my "best side."  The gentleman who ran into me said he said he
didn't see me.  I don't know how anyone can miss 18 feet of canary yellow, I
guess he'll learn to look in the direction he's driving from now on.  The
mind boggles.

So now I'm trying to locate a bumper and possibly a lower quarter panel
patch, depending on whether the old panel can be repaired.  I've never dealt
with body shops before but I figure I'm going to have as much a chance of
finding a bumper for the car as them.  I'm gonna start getting estimates
tomorrow.  I figure the damage will run $500 to $700.  

Lisa Madisen, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me the name and
number of that yard with the V-C parts cars.  If anyone knows who sells
quarter panels for wagons I'd appreciate any info. 

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@merck.com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:59:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Clutch adjusting

Paul,
The clicking sound you hear is the throwout bearing, which is probably out 
of grease.  The bearing is sealed, but does have a finite life span.  How 
old is it?
 ----------
From: Paul R. K. Kuromoto
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Clutch adjusting
Date: Sunday, October 13, 1996 4:42AM


What is the proper method of adjusting the clutch on a 72 Cutlass?  I
played around with it and it seems to make this "clicking" noise about
halfway to the floor.  From what I could tell it seems like the throwout
bearing pivots through a wide range of movement as the clutch is
depressed and I think the spring clips that hold the bearing to the fork
are making the click.  Has anyone had a similar experience?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:14:18 -0300
Subject: RE: Vista-Cruiser parts needed (*sigh*) 

Greg,

I have a USA one catalog that has the last 55" of quarter panel for the 
cutlass wagon.  It is like $89.  Will get part number out later.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser.

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:19:48 -0300
Subject: Re: "Rebel of the Road" (aka "Hot Rod") 

In a message dated 96-10-14 14:01:18 EDT, you write:

>
>The movie your refering to is Vanishing Point.  The Car was a '70 GTO
>Judge.  I stumbled across it on VH-1 also.
>
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>1970  442  4-Speed

No, the movie with the 55 Ch*vy and the orange 70 Judge was Two Lane
Blacktop. Vanishing point is another movie made about the same time and
involves cops chasing a guy driving a white 70 Hemi Challenger.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:30:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question 

In a message dated 96-10-14 14:12:20 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	Re: Another Question
>Date:	96-10-14 14:12:20 EDT
>From:	dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net (Dana Taylor)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>Ok now for a couple of more stupid questions reguarding my 455. What is a 
>guesstimate of HP rating. and second What other heads could i put on it 
>for increased HP.	
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

Well, from what the Chilton's I have says, the motor should produce between
190 and 225 HP. Of course that's the stock spec so it may be slightly more or
less than you 455's output. Other heads to put on for more power; Ideally "C"
heads would be the best, Toronado/W30 "C" heads having the larger valves, F
heads are good, A, and B heads work. Basically go for anything other than "J"
heads. Also throwing in a cam and intake would also really help.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:32:50 -0300
Subject: Re: vacuum operated heater valve

> > let me point out that you _can_ have heat with A/C running. 
> > This is what the BI-LEVEL setting is for, among other things, 
> > and even with the controls set to straight A/C or MAX, sliding
> > the temperature lever will get you heat. So the A/C setting is 
> > not a flat override-and-close of the heater hose valve.
> 
> Hmm... I won't argue with that, but now I'm left wondering 
> when the valve would close.  

My understanding of the Bi-level setting is that an air door is left open,
and some air is left to exit through the heater outlet.  This discharge
should be at the same temperature as what comes out of the upper vents. Andy
is correct about the need for running the AC for dehumidification, and
possibly having to mix in heat. I've found that the heater water valve is
usually activated (closed) when the mode selection is set at Max AC, or
when an automatic system calls for AC recirculation.  Under other
conditions, is may be necessary to mix in some heat, so the heater core
isn't cut-off at any other time.  The heat load from the heater core isn't
that great anyway, especially when there isn't any air flowing through it!
Blocking coolant flow ensures every last bit of AC capacity available.
BTW, even though a distinct Bi-level setting has disappeared in recent
years, automatic regulation systems still incorporate this feature.  It is
only activated when the passenger compartment has reached a 'close to
ideal state' where the desired temperature is equal to the measured temp.
In some cars, Bi-level mode discharges air through the floor outlets and
defroster vents; I guess the idea is to create airflow without wind chill.  

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: dcart@micro.ti.com (Donald B Cart)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:42:43 -0300
Subject: 86/86 442 Want Ad 

 A friend of mine is interested in buying a '86 or '87 442
as a daily driver.  Does anyone have any leads ?

Thanks,
Don

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:24:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question 

At 09:22 AM 10/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>The ignition switch is pretty shot (I can pull the key out in any position)

I think that's how they were made back then.  You can take out the key even
with the engine running (in the ON position).  My '69 is the same way, and
my father-in-law told me it's always been like that.  He bought the car in
'71 as the second owner, and I can't imagine the tumbler/key was very worn
back then.  BTW, the "switch" up there by the steering wheel isn't the
switch.  It's just a tumbler.  It moves a shaft which goes down the side of
the steering column, and operates the switch.  The ignition switch itself is
actually located on the steering column underneath the dash.   I don't know
what year they changed the switches (put them up inside the column) or
changed the tumbler so the key only came out in the OFF position.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:34:06 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 questions.... 

At 11:17 AM 10/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Over the weekend, I stopped at the local gas-n-go to fill-up the 
>wife's car.  As I pulled in, I noticed a goldish mid-60's Cutlass, 
>and parked at the pump next to it. 442 emblem on the trunk, with a CS 
>also.

I have a picture of the "famous Lutz & Lundberg Olds 442" (I've never heard
of it before...).  It shows the rear of the car, and on the trunk lid is a
442 emblem (on the right, by the taillight), and a CS emblem over the trunk
lock.

>Driver comes out of the service station, and I pose the question -- 
>is it a '66?  With tri-power?  Nope, itsa '67.  He then proceeds to 
>ask me if I think its real, because he's never heard of a '67 442, 
>nobody he talked to knew of a pre-68 442, couldn't find it in his 
>book of cars, etc.  

442's were first offered in 1964 as the B-09 option.  The 442 option was
only available on the Cutlass Supreme in 1967.

>As I watched the exhaustless car leave the gas station, the thought 
>of he just bought the car involuntarly for what he figured was $600 
>and would probably have parted with it since he _really_ wanted the 
>LeMans entered my mind.  What do you think?  Should I have offered 
>him $600 for the car?  

Yup; make sure it's a real 442. 

>I have a general idea of where he lives, and 
>may be able to find the car if it may be worth the effort.  The 
>thought that I may have missed a good opportunity is sorta bugging 
>me.  What do you think?

I'd hunt him down and make an offer...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:46:05 -0300
Subject: Re: The W31 

At 08:54 PM 10/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>So *is* it or *isn't* it a W31?!?!

Don't know.  That casting # is a 350 (395558).  #6 heads are correct.
Should have 2.000" intakes.  If it is real, it's one of only 1,352 W-31
350's produced that year.  1,029 of those 1,352 were Cutlass S Holiday
coupes, which is what that VIN identifies it as.  

336870Mxxxxxx

3 = Oldsmobile
36 = Cutlass V*
87 = Holiday Coupe
0 = year (1970)
M = assembly plant (M is Lansing, MI)
xxxxxx = production (sequence) number

That rear _should_ be a posi, if I'm not mistaken.  They were available with
I think, um, eight different ratios that year, not including a dealer
installed 5.00-to-1 option (WOW!)   That's all the (mis)information I have
to offer.  Hope it helps.  Please correct me where wrong.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:55:47 -0300
Subject: G-body frame swap question 

I have a question for all the experrts out there. I am considering getting a
1983 Cutlass Calais, loaded with all options, t-tops,  and it has the 307.
This car just needs a little TLC to be in real good shape with one
exception, the frame from the rear wheels back is nearly gone. It has rotted
totally away. Now in our yard we have a 1987 Cutlass Supreme, v6 with an
excellent frame but terrible body. Can I just take the body+engine/tranny
off the 83 and drop it on the 87 frame? Will this be hard? Lifting won't be
a problem as we have a hydraulic tow truck. Where are the points that the
body is secured to the frame? I just hate to see this very nice 83 go to
waste becasue of the crappy frame syndrome. I assume that this problem
stopped after 85 as all 85 and newer g-body's I see have good frames. Thanks
for the help
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:39:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question 

>>The ignition switch is pretty shot (I can pull the key out in any position)
>
>I think that's how they were made back then.  You can take out the key even
>with the engine running (in the ON position).

...in the older, dash-mounted switches, yes.

>My '69 is the same way, and
>my father-in-law told me it's always been like that.  He bought the car in
>'71 as the second owner, and I can't imagine the tumbler/key was very worn
>back then.

No, the column-mounted switches are supposed to hold on to the key until
it's turned back to the LOCK position (since it's one way to actually get
the column to lock for theft-prevention purposes; otherwise the driver
might be inclined to turn back only as far as the OFF position, then
remove the key). But when they get worn, this is what happens, all right:
you can remove the key in any position.

And don't get me wrong; personally I _like_ that. My wife's old '78 GP
did this, which enabled me to leave it running at the 7 Eleven while I
removed the keys and locked it before going inside.

>I don't know
>what year they changed the switches (put them up inside the column) or
>changed the tumbler so the key only came out in the OFF position.

1969.

This touches on a subject that's near and dear to my heart, because
as some of you may have seen in the past (especially on Usenet),
there's a nutcase in California who's embarked on a mission to eliminate
steering locks (yes, the mechanism that locks the steering wheel when
you remove the key) from polite society. He regards them as a satanic
evil loosed on society by evil car manufacturers, etc., apparently on
the basis of an accident he was in where his steering column allegedly
locked for no apparent reason and he had a nasty crash. A friend in
Canada has worked with me to found (with tongue in cheek) the Steering
Lock Conspirators' Association to rebut his claims with real statistics.

You can find his page(s) at http://www.cyber.net/asf

You can find our SLCA pages, complete with FAQ on this guy, at

http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~tjnye/slca.html

Enjoy!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:00:00 -0300
Subject: Re: '90 Dealer Data Book 

In a message dated 96-10-14 00:59:09 EDT, you write:

<< I bought a 1990 Olds Dealer Data
 Book, but I already have one.  (You know you have too much stuff when you
 don't remember what you have and what you don't!)  Anyway, my error in
 judgement is your gain, as I am offering to anyone who's interested for $25
 postage paid.  Please contact me directly at PHartlieb@aol.com. >>

I take it Paul, I use to have a 90 quad 442, and I collected all kinds of
info
on that year except the Dealer Data.   Do you want money order, check what?
What is the final cost with shipping?  I will get the money out as soon as i
get
your address from you      Thanks Mark Prince

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:07:21 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 questions.... 

> was in GTOs only), he pops the hood.  Hmmm, correct gold peeeking out 
> in a few places, oil around the valve covers (a complete shock to all 
> of us - right?), and a 442 sticker on the valve cover stating 400ci, 
> 350 hp, premium fuel only. Black fender liners and no ductwork from 
> between the headlights.  Seems he had just been forced to buy it 

Correct gold - no, should be bronze.  Block casting should be E 960925.
However, right decal, as all were 400ci and most 350 HP.  Check block
casting, right above water pump.

Worth every nickel of $600.00 for engine alone, if E.

Keep us posted!

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:18:42 -0300
Subject: Re: The W31 

In a message dated 96-10-14 00:59:27 EDT, you write:

<< Front Disc Brakes
 
 PS/PB Hey, wait, aren't W31 cars cammed real radical, M brakes-only? >>

aLL 70 W-31's have manual Disc brakes only.  No exceptions, if it has power
than somebody removed the cowl tag for the reason.  What you have is a 
plain jane cutlass with matching numbers

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Rocket8179@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:24:13 -0300
Subject: Book 

I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about the Oldsmobile book
that was to be given to the OCA members, as well as some other people.
Someone wrote something about this once, but I have heard nothing about it or
read anything about it in JWO.  If you know anything about it please let me
and everyone else know.
Thanks

Brad Ross
71 Delta Royale
OCA# 026076

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:55:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Ignition Switch Question

 Ed Rogers wrote:
>Anyway, I get it cranked up, drive around the block, pull it back into the
>driveway, and when I turned the key, it just kept running.  I tried turning
>the key many times and it just would not shut down.  Finally, it stalled
>when I tried to put it in gear.

Your 12 V to the distributor(BAT) is wired directly to  the battery, which 
means you are bypassing the OFF position on the ignition switch.  The switch 
still works for the starter, but once the engine is running, the battery is 
directly supplying the 12 volts to the distributor.  To shut off the car, 
disconnect your battery, OR :  Run a wire from an accessory outlet on your 
fuse panel out to the BAT terminal on the distributor.  Make sure you choose 
an outlet that has power only when the ignition key is in the ON position. 
 Then, when the ignition key is turned off, the distributor gets no current, 
and the engine shuts off.  I converted my '70 442 to HEI.  If you get 
stumped, let me know and I will crawl under the dash and see which fuse I 
used.
Scott Mullen
'70 442 

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:01:00 -0300
Subject: Darren "W Machine Magnet" Shroeger

Darren,
You are a lucky boy.  How do you keep finding these rare cars????  Keep up 
the good scrounging.  Here are a few comments on your last letter:

>No rear sway bar, no front sway bar.
What about those frame braces?  Are they there?  Also, are the lower control 
arms boxed or open on the bottom?  Rear (and front) sway bars were often 
removed to help traction for drag racing.  If there are no boxed lower arms 
or frame braces, I would be suspicious.  Also, the axle might have been 
changed, especially if it was flogged heavily.  At least you know it's not 
original.  That drives the price down even lower.

>6 heads Can't ID as W31 heads w/o pulling & measuring intake valves.

According to the original response Harry Lorencic gave to your first letter 
last month, the 6 heads are correct.  I am not sure if "6" heads are W31 
only.  If they are, buy the car.  The OAI hood, the heads, and the wing are 
worth $2000.  Also, my OAI hood has stress cracks around the pins, too.  I 
think it's a common problem, 'specially when you drive it like you hate it.

>The fuel line *did* make a weird little C-clamp like turn under the
>passenger door.

>But Scott, your fax of the manual states this is 'EXC. W-31'

All of the lines make that bend.  It's WHERE the bend occurs that determines 
the W31.  Check that page I sent you carefully.  The W31's (as I recall) 
have the bend clamped to the frame after the plate that is welded between 
the channels of the frame, whereas non-W31's have the bend clamped to the 
frame on that plate.

>Cool mirrors, do all '70s have those wild chiseled-looking mirrors?

All '70 W machines have the body colored mirrors, on both sides.  Desirable 
parts, especially for people blind in one eye (like me) who are required to 
have dual outside mirrors!  Get these mirrors and save them for your old age 
(I am required to have them and I'm only 30).

>PS/PB Hey, wait, aren't W31 cars cammed real radical, M brakes-only?

I thought so.  It's not hard to add  on a booster, though.  I ran a '70 W30 
MT cam on my car with power brakes without too much difficulty.  25 years is 
a long time for a car to be around, and it sounds like previous owners were 
not afraid to modify it.

Is Harry Lorencic around?  The last time we discussed W31's he was the man 
to ask.  Are you out there Harry?
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:00:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question HEADS F,D,H,C,and E's 

In a message dated 96-10-14 15:36:46 EDT, you write:

<< Well, from what the Chilton's I have says, the motor should produce
between
 190 and 225 HP. Of course that's the stock spec so it may be slightly more
or
 less than you 455's output. Other heads to put on for more power; Ideally
"C"
 heads would be the best, Toronado/W30 "C" heads having the larger valves, F
 heads are good, A, and B heads work. Basically go for anything other than
"J"
 heads. Also throwing in a cam and intake would also really help.
 DrkSole >>

Lets start off by me saying that I have cc'd A thru Ka heads in Virgin
Condition.
There is really no difference in cc's between all the year heads.  The real
difference
are in the valve sizes whether they are 2.07 or 2.00 intakes and 1.63 and
1.69
exhaust valves.  Every head that I did measured from 78 to 81 cc's.
 Including
a pair of C and E heads that Mondello says are suposed to be 77 turn out to 
be 80 cc's.  The advantage of Ga, J and Ka heads is that they have hardened
seats for unleaded fuel.  F and H and D head advantages are that the EGR bump
is missing.  But that can be rectified by mildly porting the
A,B,C,E,G,Ga,J,K,Ka
to remove the EGR bump.  So if you are throwing your J's away.  I will take
them
gladly because I can make them flow as good as full port job on C's and E's
which alot of people tend to use because of Mondello's missinformation.

Question?  Did you all know,(everybody on the mail list) that JOE MONDELLO
doesn't have a flow bench to check the flow of your heads, even though he
asks
big $$$$$ for his port and polish.  Sounds kind of shoddy to me.  Yes this is
true info.  I asked Dick Miller.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:02:18 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 questions....

> I have a picture of the "famous Lutz & Lundberg Olds 442" (I've
> never heard of it before...).  It shows the rear of the car, and on
> the trunk lid is a 442 emblem (on the right, by the taillight), and
> a CS emblem over the trunk lock.

Yup, that would be it.  Taillights are two parts, top/bottom (as 
opposed to side-side)

>  Correct gold - no, should be bronze.  Block casting should be E 960925.

Could have been the light (or lack thereof) -it was 9:00pm (a little 
dark out!).  Thanks.

> >What do you think?  Should I have offered him $600 for the car?  
> Yup; make sure it's a real 442. ... I'd hunt him down and make an offer...
> Dave Paulison                  

> Worth every nickel of $600.00 for engine alone, if E.
> Mike Turley        '66 442

Thanks for the advice.  I'll probably try scouring the nearby 5 mile 
radius of where I think the car may be and try and find it....

If I find it, I'll check the block ID for the code - is there any 
other significant markers to look for?  I did see buckets and a floor 
shifter.

Thanks again!

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442
HOPEFULLY Pursuing --> '67 442

------------------------------

From: Rocket8179@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:20:54 -0300
Subject: Re: "Rebel of the Road" (aka "Hot Rod") 

That movie was called  "TWO LANE BLACKTOP"
I also saw it on VH-1

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:21:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Question HEADS F,D,H,C,and E's

On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Lets start off by me saying that I have cc'd A thru Ka heads in Virgin
> Condition.
> There is really no difference in cc's between all the year heads.  The real
> difference
> are in the valve sizes whether they are 2.07 or 2.00 intakes and 1.63 and
> 1.69
> exhaust valves.  Every head that I did measured from 78 to 81 cc's.
>  Including
> a pair of C and E heads that Mondello says are suposed to be 77 turn out to 
> be 80 cc's.  The advantage of Ga, J and Ka heads is that they have hardened
> seats for unleaded fuel.  F and H and D head advantages are that the EGR bump
> is missing.  But that can be rectified by mildly porting the
> A,B,C,E,G,Ga,J,K,Ka
> to remove the EGR bump.  So if you are throwing your J's away.  I will take
> them
> gladly because I can make them flow as good as full port job on C's and E's
> which alot of people tend to use because of Mondello's missinformation.
> 
> Question?  Did you all know,(everybody on the mail list) that JOE MONDELLO
> doesn't have a flow bench to check the flow of your heads, even though he
> asks
> big $$$$$ for his port and polish.  Sounds kind of shoddy to me.  Yes this is
> true info.  I asked Dick Miller.
> 
> W MACHINES
> 
Actually "D" heads are only 70cc, all others are apprx 80cc, I have a pair 
of "C" heads with the large valve's and three pairs of "J" heads, there 
is a major difference between the two in the exhaust ports the "J" are 
much more restrictive than the "C"'s is this area, although the intake 
ports seem to be the same.

Right now I am running a set of "J" heads on my 455 and plan on switching 
to the "C"'s next season. I want to see how much of a difference 
they make at the dragstrip(the poor man's dyno..) ;)

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:33:12 -0300
Subject: Re: The W31

> aLL 70 W-31's have manual Disc brakes only.  No exceptions, if it has power
> than somebody removed the cowl tag for the reason.  What you have is a
> plain jane cutlass with matching numbers

I'd be even suspicious about the matching numbers thing.  It is very 
easy to have a block restamped.  Hey, if this guy (or some previous) 
owner went to the trouble to fake this car, they probably restamped the 
block (if it was not original).  This guy was very shady anyway, right?  
Wasn't he headed to prison or something?

However, the car is definitley worth something with all the parts it 
has.  The Ram air hoods are worth around 1K alone.  Depending on the 
shape you could just get it running and play with it for a while or part 
it out.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:33:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question

the wire from the distribuitor is the energy source for the 
distribuitor.  this must be switched thru the ignition switch somehow.  I 
suggest you obtain a 12 volt test light from any auto parts store.  ask a 
helper to turn the key on and off while using the test light.  connect 
the distrubitor to a swiched source and your problem should be fixed.
I own a 1970 olds 98 LS and a 1977 olds station wagon.  the olds 98 ls 
was family owned since new.  it has a 455.  the 77 olds has a 350r motor.
my 77 wagon has a distrubuitor like yours.
hope this helps you.


Dennis Sytsma
dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us


On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> The came from Ed Rogers but bounced because majordomo thought he was 
> asking for something from me... reposting on his behalf.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 
> Date:	Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:59:06 -0300
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> From:	Ed Rogers <rhubarb@mindspring.com>
> Subject: HELP !! Can't Get My 442 to Shut Off !
> 
> Help !!!
> 
> I finally got my '69 442 convertible running tonight (after 6 months).  It
> needed a new battery cable and a new exhaust manifold.
> 
> Anyway, I get it cranked up, drive around the block, pull it back into the
> driveway, and when I turned the key, it just kept running.  I tried turning
> the key many times and it just would not shut down.  Finally, it stalled
> when I tried to put it in gear.
> 
> Here is the story on my car.
> 
> 1969 442 convertible
> 73-76 455 Olds engine with stock electronic ignition
> 
> One of the things I had to fix was a wire that came off the distributor.
> It came from the terminal marked "BAT".  It was connected to a terminal
> block attached to the firewall (below the power brake booster).  It was
> impossible to get this wire back on the terminal block so I ran it straight
> to the battery.  What does this wire do?  Could it be part of the problem?
> 
> The ignition switch is pretty shot (I can pull the key out in any position)
> but last time I drove it,  it worked fine.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Interested in Satellite TV, Home Theatre, Muscle Cars, Recording Studios,
> or Computers? Me Too !
> *NEW* Carver Ribbon/NHT1259 Project Page *NEW*
> Check out my Web Page "http://www.mindspring.com/~rhubarb"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:39:22 -0300
Subject: Heads for sale (Was: Another Question HEADS...)

On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> Question?  Did you all know,(everybody on the mail list) that JOE MONDELLO
> doesn't have a flow bench to check the flow of your heads, even though he
> asks
> big $$$$$ for his port and polish.  Sounds kind of shoddy to me.  Yes this is
> true info.  I asked Dick Miller.

Why does this not suprise me? :)

BTW, I have a set of Ga heads for sale, ("small" valve) complete w/ Crane
Aluminum Roller Rockers, and Mondello hardened pushrods & guideplates.
$550 +Shipping.

- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:56:13 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Question HEADS F,D,H,C,and E's

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBA09.F326D120
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



You wrote:>>

Lets start off by me saying that I have cc'd A thru Ka heads in Virgin
Condition.
There is really no difference in cc's between all the year heads.  The =
real
difference
are in the valve sizes whether they are 2.07 or 2.00 intakes and 1.63 =
and
1.69
exhaust valves.  Every head that I did measured from 78 to 81 cc's.
 Including
a pair of C and E heads that Mondello says are suposed to be 77 turn out =
to=20
be 80 cc's.  The advantage of Ga, J and Ka heads is that they have =
hardened
seats for unleaded fuel.  F and H and D head advantages are that the EGR =
bump
is missing.  But that can be rectified by mildly porting the
A,B,C,E,G,Ga,J,K,Ka
to remove the EGR bump.  So if you are throwing your J's away.  I will =
take
them
gladly because I can make them flow as good as full port job on C's and =
E's
which alot of people tend to use because of Mondello's missinformation.

Question?  Did you all know,(everybody on the mail list) that JOE =
MONDELLO
doesn't have a flow bench to check the flow of your heads, even though =
he
asks
big $$$$$ for his port and polish.  Sounds kind of shoddy to me.  Yes =
this is
true info.  I asked Dick Miller.

W MACHINES


You couldn't be more right. I have a flow bench in my shop and have =
tested all of the Old s BB heads. The only difference is the valve =
sizes, the heads all flow within 5% of each other which means next to no =
hp increase between them. The big valve heads flow a bit more due to the =
large valve and nothing else. One exception to the rule are the D heads  =
make more power, but this is due to the smaller combustion chamber not =
the fact that the head can flow more. Anyone with a real interest in =
head flow should cut them in half ( that is junk heads) to see for =
yourselves they are identical.

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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBA09.F326D120--

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:10:43 -0300
Subject: RE: Interior questions

At 04:19 PM 10/14/96 +0000, you wrote:
> 
>I was talking to ACC's rep at Carlisle a while ago.  He said Year One 
>sells their carpet and because of their buying power you can buy it  
>cheaper at Year One than direct from ACC.  As to ACC quality I was told by a  
>professional Corvette restorer that ACC is easily the best quality, for  
>what thats worth..... 
> 
>     
>Todd Morris 
>71 442
>
>

I put ACC carpet (from Year One) in my 69 H/O this spring.  It is a very
superior quality carpet.  I highly recommend it!


Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:57:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Book

On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 Rocket8179@aol.com wrote:
> I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about the Oldsmobile book
> that was to be given to the OCA members, as well as some other people.
> Someone wrote something about this once, but I have heard nothing about it or
> read anything about it in JWO.  If you know anything about it please let me
> and everyone else know.

This was mentioned in Olds Today, the publication sent to dealers and OCA 
members by the Olds division. It was supposed to be a history of Olds 
over the 100 years of its existence. Availability was supposed to be this 
month or next. Still watching my mailbox. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:24:28 -0300
Subject: Re: A Rallye 350? 

In a message dated 96-10-14 03:05:53 EDT, you write:

> Cutlass Rallye 350 Post Coupe, it'd be one 
>  of oh, 160.

Actually, a 3277 model would be an F-85 Rallye 350 
  
>  Anyone seen a real Rallye 350 bumper before? This one seemed metallic
>  to the touch, not some thick latexy coating like I expected the Endura
>  to be... Never seen the real thing, so don't know.

Dealer Information Bulletin 70-I-14 dated 2-20-70 says these are Urethane
Coated Bumpers.

Paul  

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:24:40 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 questions.... 

In a message dated 96-10-14 14:00:44 EDT, you write:

> Had a sticker that said Command Climate 
>  Control or something like that.  What is that?  Is it standard on the 
>  '67?  Or is it a California thing?

Climatic Combustion Control Engine Air-Induction System.  Was on option for
'67 only on cars with the 400 or 425 motors, with 2 or 4 barrel carbs.  This
a pre-heat pipe with a fancy air cleaner housing.  Pre-heat pipes became
standard on the '68s, with a standard air cleaner housing used.  This was a
50 state option, not just CA.  On the 4bbl, both of those snorkels are
functional under full throttle, only one is functional at normal throttle.
 On the 2bbl only the passenger side snorkel is functional all the time, the
driver side snorkel is sealed shut.  Was option K50 at a cost of $33.70.  For
an air cleaner.  When one already came standard.  That's why they aren't real
common.  My '67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe has one of these.

Paul  

------------------------------

From: Auto Custom Carpets <accinc@quicklink.net> (by way of Dave Isho 
<davei-2@mail.idt.net>)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:20:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Can't access web page. 

Thought you might be interested, I got this e-mail from auto custom carpets
re. their web page



Hello Dave,

        Thanks for you interest in our page. The web site has changed. The
new site is www.accmats.com . The new email address is info@accmats.com

Thanks again

Danny

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #331
********************************
 
