To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/29/96 12:13:38 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #385


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 29 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 385


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:10:28 -0400
Subject: clock question

This question may seen a bit stupid but I am not a clock expert so bear
with me. My 80 442 is supposed to have a digital clock from the factory.
I have a closk in there but am wondering if it is the digital one or
not? The one in there looks like a wall clock with the arms rotating
around. I have another clock out of a parts car that has a solid number
appearance and the minuites change by the numbers "rolling" foward. Is
this the digital clock for 1980? Was it an electronic liquid crystal
type of display clock? Thanks..... - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay
Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot
Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2........ a real muscle car 80 4-4-2  W-30 (
Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in reality)..a pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds
W-25.....restoration project that is currently up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:09:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Alsetta/Isetta ?

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> > > two dragsters built...in the hot rod mags of the 50's/60's,
> > > that...(had)...the Allison V1710...One was called Alsetta...
> > > an Isetta with an Allison installed.

> > ...can recall..."Isetta"...BMW...barely larger than a refrigerator
> > (just one refrigerator-style door in the front)...can't imagine...
> > - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

> My mother & stepfather had an Isetta...when I had just obtained my
> drivers license.  Anything bigger than an Olds wiper motor would
> seriously overstress the whole thing.  That was a wild ride even at
> 45.  I don't think it went any faster (at least this 16 year-old
> coundn't make it happen)...3-speed shifter on the left side panel
> (the door is to the front) & a combination starter/generator. That
> starter/generator did the car in when it failed...cost of repairs
> was beyond the cost of a car (not an Isetta) & so it "vanished"
> Bill Culp  Decatur, Alabama

Just go to the WWW and type in Yahoo and then Isetta.  You will find
the microcar site and it features the Isetta, Messerschmitt, Crosley,
Bantam, Goggomobil, etc. cars.
There was an Allison powered Isetta as well as the Allison powered
Aero White.  In the Don Garlits Drag Racing Museum in Ocala, Florida
there is also "Big Al" the first one piece, fiberglass replica of a
34 Ford tudor...with an Allison in it.  They also have an Allison
powered rail on display.
Someone asked here the other day where the Hurst Hairy Olds went.  I
personally have no idea but for those who are not aware of it, the
"HHO" had a Toro engine under the hood (driving the front wheels) and
another one in the trunk (turning the rear ones)!  Both supercharged
as I recall.
dj

------------------------------

From: rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:13:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding Q-Jets

My favorite Q-Jet book is:

Tune, Rebuild or Modify Rochester Carburetors
by: Doug Roe
HP Books
PO Box 5367
Tucson, AZ 85703
(602) 888-2150
ISBN 0-89586-301-4, Lib of Congress: 86-81204

I consider this to be the 'bible' of QJ rebuilding and tuning. It lists
all sorts of necessary information, including primary and secondary rod
dimensions, hanger dimensions, etc. A must have, IMHO.

Also, while we're on the subject of QJs. Anyone looking for jets, rods,
power piston springs, gaskets, etc. check out Edelbrock. Since they
brought out their line of 'Performer QJet' carbs, they are selling QJ
parts. Edelbrock also has a 0.147 fuel inlet which is the largest I've
seen and a 50cc accelerator pump, both of which my Olds likes _very_
much. :-)

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:21:33 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> > > Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the
> > > "buildityourself" crowd...they turn them upside-down...
> > > to get the crank/prop hub higher off of the ground.

> > What...do you run into turning an engine upsidedown...
> > things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston rings,
> > and other things would be problems...I imagine any auto to
> > aircraft engine conversion would require some major work in
> > these areas since the aircraft doesn't always fly level...
> > - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

> Everyone knows that you operate the plane upside down so as to
> make everything right w/the engine.  It does make it a little
> rough on pilots trying to jump into their 3-point harnesses though.
> Bill Culp   Decatur, Alabama

Motors care little what direction the pistons point.  The trick is
to run a dry sump and plug some oil galleries and re-route others.
It is less difficult than one would expect.  On the 215 they turn
the motor around backwards and use the flywheel as a prop hub.  So,
it is not only upside-down, it is backwards as well.  And with three
inch exhaust pipes sounds REALLY nice.
And Bill is just complaining because when he flew in it he tried to
drink a Dr. Pepper and it ran out of his nose!
dj
PS, the guy who built the Olds powered plane that I mentioned (there
are others) died somewhere around Alabama a couple of years ago.  An
in-flight breakup of the tail I believe.  His Olds/Tailwind is on
display in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:38:06 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, C.R.F. wrote:
> At 06:05 PM 11/27/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >>> The aluminum Olds 215 is popular...turn them upside-down and run
> >>> them direct drive
> >
> >>What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
> >>I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston
> >>rings, and other things would be problems.
> >
> >I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted 215's.
> >Dave Paulison

> So Would I, The Wiz,

The radiator sits horizontally, above the motor where the oil
pan used to be.  The louvered cowl exhausts the hot air directly
onto the windshield...full time defrost!
I have pics of it...slides actually, but 72 slides per year at
the flyin, multiplied by 25 years = 1,800 slides to look at to
find two or three.  You could write to the Experimental Aircraft
Association and ask them to photocopy the writeup on Steve Wittman's
Olds powered Tailwind.  They might charge you a bit for doing it
though.  I have a "www" site address and you could ask there...or
I have an e-mail address for the director of the museum.  Ask for
any/and/or all and I shall send.
dj - EAA 107359

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:46:37 -0400
Subject: [none]

> > ...I'm thinking it would be fun to install an engine upsiddown in
> > a show car and tell people it was a factory option for high
> > altitudes or something like that... :)

factory option for the Australian market!
dj

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> > Buick used an aluminum/c.i. composite drum for a lot of years with
> > exceptional results.  It was a finned aluminum affair ca. 1960,
> > and it took good disc's to beat it.   The Wiz,

> > Weren't the 8-lug Pontiac wheels from the early 60s also based on
> > finned aluminum drums with cast iron inserts?  Don't know how well
> > they worked, but they sure looked cool.     Joe Padavano

> I have a '63 Grand Prix w/finned alluminum drums that bolt separately
> to steel rims w/8 lugs & they work ok.  Nothing special. I love the
> looks though I'm not sure what I do when the drums wear beyond turning
> (I have an extra few as spares).  My '70 Buick GS came w/aluminum
> drums on front.  They worked fine.  I took them off & replaced them
> w/discs.  Anyone need a set?
> Bill Culp  Decatur, Alabama

I would love to have them to put on my hot rod project but I have a set
spotted on a 65 Buick Electra.  Why didn't Olds and Pontiac use the
aluminum drums as well as Buick?  Would have cost less per unit.  I am
surprised they kept them that long, thinking they died somewhere around
1965.
dj

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:51:23 -0400
Subject: message to the USA folk

G'night all,
Have a happy Turkey Day
(to the non-yanks, have a happy, err, umm,
well, Thursday)

I'll look forward to checking my mail again next Monday, see you then,

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 03:44:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

At 02:54 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:


>> > Buick used an aluminum/c.i. composite drum for a lot of years with
>> > exceptional results.  It was a finned aluminum affair ca. 1960,
>> > and it took good disc's to beat it.   The Wiz,
>
Snip>
>
>> I have a '63 Grand Prix w/finned alluminum drums that bolt separately
>> to steel rims w/8 lugs & they work ok.  Nothing special. I love the
>> looks though I'm not sure what I do when the drums wear beyond
turning >> (I have an extra few as spares).  My '70 Buick GS came
w/aluminum >> drums on front.  They worked fine.  I took them off &
replaced them >> w/discs.  Anyone need a set? >> Bill Culp  Decatur,
Alabama > >I would love to have them to put on my hot rod project but I
have a set >spotted on a 65 Buick Electra.  Why didn't Olds and Pontiac
use the >aluminum drums as well as Buick?  Would have cost less per
unit.  I am >surprised they kept them that long, thinking they died
somewhere around >1965. >dj > Drum brakes didn't end quite as abruptly
as apparently you believe.  Disc brakes began to appear on GM cars in
the mid-60s, the earliest car I can remember for sure was my kid
brothers '67 Chevelle SS 396 Convertible, and yes he still wishes he had
that car, instead of the wife he traded it in for.  My '68 Corvette had
discs on all four corners, my dad's '68 Chev. had them only on the ft.
And I think that save for the Corvette, they were all optional....  Mike
tht lived across the street from me at the time had a '66 Chevelle, and
I think it had discs too, but I'm not sure, so I must go up one year to
my brother's '67.

Standard disc brakes probably didn't happen until the early 70s.

I'm sure we will hear from production line experts with the exact change
over date.  Which would be nice so that I can add that fact to my data
of GM trivia.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 07:08:19 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDCEA.2C5EF820
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>> The aluminum Olds 215 is popular...turn them upside-down and run >>
them direct drive

>What kind of nastyness do you run into turning an engine upsidedown?
>I'm thinking things like oil flow, possibly coolant flow, piston rings,
and >other things would be problems.

...What about carburation?  Would the carb and intake mount on
the now underside of the engine?  Do they use carburators on
planes?  Where would you put the oil pump and pan?  How would
you keep the combustion chambers from filling with oil?  The mind
boggles...I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted 215's. Dave
Paulison          dpauliso@gate.net

If you went out to your local airport, virtually every small 4 pass
plane out there is powered by a 4-cylinder opposed Lycoming or
Continental motor.  All of these, from 200 to 360 cubic inches,
have an updraft carb (except FI ones, of course).  There is an
Ellison carb, a throttle body injector of sorts, that has one moving
part, a slide valve.  As a result, it cares little whether it is upside
down or right side up.  There are also pressure carbs that will feed
regardless of the attitude of the aircraft.
The oil is kept in a separate tank and pumped to the engine, which
eliminates the need for an oil pan.  The combustion chambers will
not fill up unless you have a very bad ring problem.  Remember,
there is no oil to speak of above the chambers except what is in the
oil tubes and these drain back to the storage tank.  These could
also be kept full by static pressure (no drainback due to pressure).
I am not certain which is better.  Any fuel leakage from the carb will
not enter the combustion chambers because the pistons are ABOVE
the carb.
The aircraft Olds 215 looks little different from the auto version
except for the pan, exhaust and carb.
As far as upside-down engines go, the best known is probably the
V-12 Mercedes Benz DB-601 that powered the Messerschmitt 109.
They were mechanically fuel injected and thus superior (in that area)
to the Rolls Royce Merlin used in the Spitfire (an upright V-12) which
was carbed.
dj - EAA 107359

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------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 07:46:11 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 07:08 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:


Snip>

>If you went out to your local airport, virtually every small 4 pass=20
>plane out there is powered by a 4-cylinder opposed Lycoming or
>Continental motor.  All of these, from 200 to 360 cubic inches,=20
>have an updraft carb (except FI ones, of course).  There is an
>Ellison carb, a throttle body injector of sorts, that has one moving
>part, a slide valve.  As a result, it cares little whether it is upside
>down or right side up.  There are also pressure carbs that will feed
>regardless of the attitude of the aircraft.
>The oil is kept in a separate tank and pumped to the engine, which
>eliminates the need for an oil pan.  The combustion chambers will
>not fill up unless you have a very bad ring problem.  Remember,
>there is no oil to speak of above the chambers except what is in the=20
>oil tubes and these drain back to the storage tank.  These could=20
>also be kept full by static pressure (no drainback due to pressure).
=20 >I am not certain which is better.  Any fuel leakage from the carb
will=20 >not enter the combustion chambers because the pistons are ABOVE
>the carb. =20 >The aircraft Olds 215 looks little different from the
auto version >except for the pan, exhaust and carb. =20 >As far as
upside-down engines go, the best known is probably the >V-12 Mercedes
Benz DB-601 that powered the Messerschmitt 109. >They were mechanically
fuel injected and thus superior (in that area) >to the Rolls Royce
Merlin used in the Spitfire (an upright V-12) which=20 >was carbed. >dj
- EAA 107359 > >Attachment Converted: C:\WINSOCK\EUDORA\REupside

I agree with your description of what would be found under the "hood" of
most every, reciprocating engined, General Aviation airplane one is
likely to encounter, save for one aspect.

The engines, you described, are "V" type, not opposed.  An opposed
engine has two pistons running in each cylinder, two crankshafts, to
draw off the power and are rarely encountered in the "real world."  You
will note, that they are infact, 180=BA "V," "V" type motors.  Calling
the 180=BA "V" type=
 motor
"opposed" had to have occured a long time ago, by someone that was
actually unfamiliar with the nomenclature involved, and we are living
with this misnomer to this day.

Also, there are probably quite a few six cylinder Contentals still
flying, as well as their four cylinder brethern; as I recall that most
of the Cessna 172's, one of the most widely produced General Aviation
aircraft built used a 145hp, six cylinder Contental. =20

Another Note:  There was a fairly common U.S. inverted engine of the
WWII period as well, although it was a far cry from the big V12s.  It
was a little six cylinder Ranger used in a number of Air Corps trainers
and light transport and utility aircraft.

I think the ultimate hybridization of any WWII fighter was the Spanish
Air Force's licensed production of he Bf109, as they used the German
airframe adapted to the RR Merlin engine, and it is this version of the
venerable German pursuit ship that is available for the movies; all but
a few of the German produced birds were wrecked as quickly as possibly,
following the end of hostilities in 1945.  The Spanish also produced the
Ju52 transport under license, and the few flying examples of the Junkers
are of Spanish origin=
 also.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:08:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Front bumper, 72 cutlass

I have a spare. It's in good shape and straight. It could stand to be
rechromed and definitely need some cleaning up. E-mail me if you are
interested.

Katana72           It's NOT your Daddy's Oldmobile!!!!!!!!!!!
       Hastings, MN, USA

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:17:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Spark plug recommendations

Split-Fire plugs. I've been runing them in my Acclaim for three years,
no tune ups, went and got it smog inspected yesterday and it was very
low on emissions. And the co2 was high, which here it needs to be more
than 4.0 whatevers and it was at 12.0. Plan on getting them for my
Cutlass S, but haven't driven it that much lately and kind of forgot
about them. They cost about $6.00 a plug and I'm pleased. Also, A friend
of mine runs them in his 70 Cutlass and he swears by them.

I also have and MSD ignition in my 72 and currently am running my plug
gaps at .45 vice the .30 the book calls for.  Dwell is at 36 degrees
vice the 28 -30. Good luck !!

Katana72              It's NOT your Daddy'd Oldsmobile !!!!!
        Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:20:52 -0400
Subject: Re: clock question

The "digital clock" that came in my 79 was the type that had the numbers
on a wheel and the wheel turned. The "digital clock" which you have is
the one that belongs in there. It should be about 2.5 " by 3.75 "
(approx) and have a plug in on the back.


KAtana72

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:36:00 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>
> On the 215 they turn
> the motor around backwards and use the flywheel as a prop hub.  So,
> it is not only upside-down, it is backwards as well.  And with three
> inch exhaust pipes sounds REALLY nice.
>
> dj


Dennis,

Speking of sound, my little 215 turbo Olds has one of the best deap
rumbles at just off idle that a car could have.  For some reason, those
small pipes have a sound just like a 394 w/a little louder than stock
exhaust set.  It sounds wonderful idling through a car show & really
draws attention.  It rivals 440 Mopars for good sound.

Bill Culp
Deatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:57:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

C.R.F. wrote:
>
>
> >
> Drum brakes didn't end quite as abruptly as apparently you believe.
Disc > brakes began to appear on GM cars in the mid-60s, the earliest
car I can > remember for sure was my kid brothers '67 Chevelle SS 396
Convertible,

  And I think that save for the Corvette, they were all
> optional....  Mike tht lived across the street from me at the time had
a '66 > Chevelle, and I think it had discs too, but I'm not sure, so I
must go up > one year to my brother's '67. > > Standard disc brakes
probably didn't happen until the early 70s. > >
  Which would be nice so that I can add that fact to my data of GM
> trivia.
>
> The Wiz

Wiz,

In 1966 GM put discs on the front of the Chevelle & Buick using those
narrow (6"?) Corvette wheels, trim rings, & lovely Corvette derived caps
saying "disc brakes".  Buick's had the wheels painted red usually.  I
don't believe that Oldsmobile or Pontiac got them until 1967.

>From the beginning, these were 2-piston types through 1969.  It took
special wheels to clear the calipers until the single piston types in
1970.  I believe it was 1973 before disc brakes were standard on
Cutlasses & that group.

Avanti used front discs on theirs in 1962.  Chrysler Imperial had them
in 1951.  AMC put them on the Marlin in 1965.  I believe that Ford was
1966 - especially on the GT Mustangs & Fairlanes.  Corvette, I believe,
began in 1965.

Now you know most of what I think that I know.  Best of all, these can
all be pulled off a salvage car & put on yours rather easily.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:16:35 -0400
Subject: The mail started to function

Yessss.

Today at 10:30 (Finnish time) the mail started to pour in.

A lot of reading.
- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:51:03 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

C.R.F. wrote:
> =

> At 07:08 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
> =

> Snip>
> =

> The engines, you described, are "V" type, not opposed.  An opposed =

> engine has two pistons running in each cylinder, two crankshafts, to =

> draw off the power and are rarely encountered in the "real world."
You =

> will note, that they are infact, 180=BA "V," "V" type motors.  Calling
=

> the 180=BA "V" type motor "opposed" had to have occured a long time
ago, =

> by someone that was actually unfamiliar with the nomenclature
involved, =

> and we are living with this misnomer to this day.

Or by somebody that had some sense.  While I have no doubt that the =

engine you described would be classed as "opposed"; I have NEVER heard
of =

anyone referring to an engine with horizontally opposed pistons (as in =

the Porsche/VW "flat" motors) as a 180 degree "V".  That would make
about =

as much sense as a 90 degree straight-8.  =


Have to research this further...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- =

Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:53:46 -0400
Subject: Aluminum Drums

I have heard about the older composite drums.  The reason why I said
teh newer '80s drums are not as good is because of the size.  They are
a lot smaller than the drums from the 60's.  I seem to remember hearing
that (1) there were very few made, (2) they were only sold for some type
of fleet use, (3) there were problems with alluminum/cast iron corrosion
of separation making these undesireable.  The only advantage I can think
of for them is to reduce rotational inertia and unsprung weight
for drag racing, but I wouldn't want ot depend on them to stop my car
after a 1/4 mile run repetitevely.  If they were made by GM, that makes
them worse cosidering GMs quality problems with rotors in then late
80's.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:53:43 -0400
Subject: Passenger Remote Mirror

My '87 442 came from the factory with the passenger remote mirror.
It has never worked right since new.  The first mirro wouldn't even
move, so the dealer replaced it under warranty.  The new one is
better, but I cannot get it to move reliably to the upper left.
The cable is too long for coordinated motion.  Standard electric
mirrors on the newer cars is one of hte best things GM has done in
a while.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:53:52 -0400
Subject: Light Switch Blue 'LED'

The blue light next to the headlight switch is not shown in
any manual, but it is not and LED.  Blue LEDs did not exist
in 1987.  They weren't invented until a coupe of years ago.
I have had to take mine apart to replace the bulb
three times.  It uses a light bulb just like the ones used
for instrument panel illumination except that tip of the bulb
opposite the terminals has a lens in the glass.  The bulb fits
into a plastic assembly below the left front speaker and has
a fiber optic cable running to the blue lens next to the light
switch.  I haven't been able to keep a bulb working for more
than a year in my '87 442.  It appears that heat gets it
because the plastic socket housing is brown from heat and
the bulbs always show heat failure.  I gave up replacing it
because it is too hard to get too (not enough slack in wiring).
I eventually will modify it but was wondering if anybody has
had good luck in a Cutlass Supreme with this.  The Ciera
seems to have more air flow and the bulbs last longer.

By the way, I couldn't get a 1986 442 so when the
preliminary information came out on the '87s, I thought
the new aerodynamic header panel was ugly.  I was used to
the older ones.  After I got saw the '87s in person, I
really liked the new header panel.  The vehicle still
doesn't look too outdated from the front, even today.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:31:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Swapping bodyparts.....

I highly doubt that 81-88 Regal door will interchange with Cutlass
doors.  I have heard this rumor a few times, but today I am going to
take a ride through a supermarket or a mall parking lot and find a Regal
so I can verify this.  I would like to know for sure...

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:31:33 -0400
Subject: 78 and up Rears.. was Oldsmobile with 12 bolts...

Hold on here guys....  The rear Brad is talking about only relates to
the older, 68-70? vintage Cutlass's.  All 78 and up Olds came with 7.5"
10 bolts, no 12 bolts (Chevy or Olds) whatsoever....  So guys with 78
and up G bodies had a few options:  beef up the 7.5" with better axles
and a good posi unit, find an 8.5" out of an 83-84 HO, 85-85 442, or 84
and up T-Type or GN, , a Ford 9" from Currie or Moser, or buy the
control arms from Southside traction and install an older 68 or so Chevy
12 bolt or 10 bolt..   All of these cost a few bucks, especially the 9".
It is the strongest but the most expensive.
 As for the 8.5", they are really hard to find, and demand top dollar
($900-$1000 or so).

Hope this info helps...
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:31:31 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Rear Axles

To clear up the statement about 8.5" rear axles being found in G-bodies,
if you want to see one, go to Bryce's web page and check out the
pictures of my 86 442 and 79 Cutlass.  There is a picture of me
installing an 8.5" in my 79 with a W-27 cover on it.  The W-27 cover
came off the rear in the 442, so both of my cars have 8.5" in them.

These rears are very hard to come by and as Steve said they can only be
found in 83-84 Hurst's, 85-87 442's, and 84 and up T-Types and GN's
(Turbo Regals).
 Junkyards usually get $900 or so and they sell extrememely fast.  I
lucked out and found one out of an 86 T-Type for my mine, but it took a
couple of years to find it....

If you don't have the codes with you to indentify if it is an 8.5" or
not, I found that if you measure the distance between the very bottom
bolt for the cover and the next adjacent one (either right of left), it
will be 3 3/4" for a 8.5" and 3 1/4" for a 7.5". Not a good as the
codes... but helpful if you are in a boneyard....

Hope this helps....
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:09:05 -0400
Subject: Blue 'LED' and Other Info

Steve Ochs wrote:
>
> The blue light next to the headlight switch is not shown in
> any manual, but it is not and LED.  Blue LEDs did not exist
> in 1987.  They weren't invented until a coupe of years ago.

And are still rather rare -- which is why I was interested.  They are
also rather expensive.  My catalogs list Panasonic blue LEDs at over $7
a piece where a typical red/green LED is less than a buck.

BTW, for anyone interested in hardcore electronic parts (connectors,
displays, etc.), I highly recommend Digi-Key.  A company I've been
dealing with for many, many years.  Not a discount house but an
extremely large catalog of first rate parts at reasonable prices.  They
now have at web site at http://www.digikey.com/  (DUH!)

The 66 Toro and Mike

	
- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:18:53 -0400
Subject: Re:

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> Right, either he wants us to "read" his mind,
> or that darn '66 Toro is playing games with us again :-)
Bill Culp wrote:
>
> We can tell what's on your mind!

Naw, I was using invisible ink.  Hold you monitor over
a candle for a few minutes and the words will appear.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@flash.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:46:12 -0400
Subject: Re:

- ----------
> From: Edison 3 <edison3@cpeq.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:
> Date: Wednesday, November 27, 1996 4:12 PM
>

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:08:31 -0400
Subject: Re:

Mike Frederick wrote:

> Naw, I was using invisible ink.  Hold you monitor over
> a candle for a few minutes and the words will appear.

Mike,

Where do you get that special "Lemon Juice" font from?  (:

Yeah, I watched Mr. Wizzard when I was a kid too!  (;

Sparky (soon to be Porky)
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:10:26 -0400
Subject: Re:

Jason Hairston wrote:
>

Good answer.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:26:08 -0400
Subject: Re:

Greg "Porky" Kalkhoff wrote:
>
> Where do you get that special "Lemon Juice" font from?  (:

>From my local Ford dealer, where else?

> Yeah, I watched Mr. Wizzard when I was a kid too!  (;

OK then.  How do you get a helium baloon down from a high ceiling?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JANDSNAVAR@gnn.com (JUAN NAVARRETE)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:37:06 -0400
Subject: '66 Olds Jetstar 88 parts needed

I am looking for a left hand door molding for a 2 door 1966
Oldsmobile Jetstar 88.  It is 49.5 inches long and about 7/8 inches
wide where it mounts to the door, with a triangular cross section.
I am also looking for a column-mounted automatic transmission
shifter handle for the same car.  Please respond to
jandsnavar@gnn.com

------------------------------

From: "Laurence Simpson" <LaurenceSimpson@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:46:45 -0400
Subject: 1988 Hurst/Olds

The 1988 H/O which began as a concept car by Jack "Doc" Watson to the
Olds factory ended up as being a "kit" car.  Individuals would purchase
a "kit", find a 1988 rear wheel drive Cutlass Classic car, and when you
combined the two, you would have a 1988 Hurst/Olds.  If the kit were
put on a 1981 thru 1987 RWD Cutlass, then it would be correctly called
a Hurst Aero Commerative car and NOT  a 1988 H/O.

Originally the kit was available in the Spring of 1988 from a company
called Action Products located in Tempe Az.  This company had plastics'
capability through its line of mini cars, and the owner was a friend of
Joe Hrudka who owned Mr. Gasket and Hurst at that time.  After an
initial run, Doc Watson took the molds to produce the kit, and moved
everything to Michigan.  It was then marketed under another company
called Hurst Special Vehicles which Doc owned, and had hoped to market
at that time all the items that make all years of Hurst Olds special.
Best laid plans etc......  The 2 kits used different plastic (revel vs
ABS), and both are difficult to fit for the "amateur:  Once your done,
and take your time, you will be rewarded with one sharp and different
car.

Doc personally made four to five cars for different people, and each is
different.
1. For himself - A white car he has shown around since 1988 at various
meets, and at Phoenix at the introduction of the 88 H/O. 2. For Joe
Hrudka -  A white car which would be analogous to the first 68 that Doc
had presented to George Hurst.  It supposed first had a DRC motor which
was changed to a 455.  It is seen in the original promo brochure with
Doc and Linda in the photos.  The scene was shot a Hrudka's home in AZ.
3. For Judy Badgley - A black car.  Judy was Director of the HOCA at the
time, and is one beautiful person.  They still have the car. 4. For
Laurence Simpson - A white car.  A New York City dentist (me).  I still
have the car and it has a 307 done over to 83-84 H/O specs along with
other special items (ie Lockamatic shifter) installed by Doc.  Judy's
car is stock except for the kit. 5. He told me he did one for someone
associated with the University of Michigan, but I never got the full
details. 6. As the HOCA 88 Advisor, I was able to document about 10
other cars done by people who bought the kit and installed it
themselves.

Hope this clears up some of the mystery of the 88 H/O

	Laurence Simpson, D.D.S.
	1988 HOCA Advisor

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:35:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 1988 Hurst/Olds

Laurence Simpson wrote:
>
> The 1988 H/O which began as a concept car by Jack "Doc" Watson to the
Olds > factory ended up as being a "kit" car.  Individuals would
purchase a "kit", > find a 1988 rear wheel drive Cutlass Classic car,
and when you combined the > two, you would have a 1988 Hurst/Olds. > >
Hope this clears up some of the mystery of the 88 H/O > >
Laurence Simpson

Lawrence,

I like your story.  I never knew anything at all about these cars.
Actually, I knew little about the later H/Os at all.  Thanks for telling
it.

Bill Culp
Aecatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:58:20 -0400
Subject: Project: Olds Craft (last time!)

     This is a repost of the information on Project Olds Craft.  Sorry I

     couldn't post it earlier, but I've been without power for 8 days!


--------------------------------------------------------------------

     The Dream (for those who came in late or were busy showing their
     tallights to a Mustang):  It seems to be a pretty much universal
     feeling here that Car Craft (and the other magazines too, but we
have
     to start somewhere) pretty much ignores Oldsmobiles (and Buicks and

     Pontiacs too) while Chevy-Camaro-Mustanging us to death every
issue.
     In an attempt to convey our feelings and hopefully slap some sense
     into them, it was decided that a letter-writing campaign was a good

     idea.

     The plan:  From this, project Olds Craft was born.  On or about
     December 1st, everyone here, and anyone else you know should send a

     letter, preferably with a picture of your car, to Car Craft
magazine.
     The idea is to get many pro-Olds letters in to them in a short
amount
     of time.  In the letter, state whatever you want, but at least try
to
     be civil or it won't get printed and they may not even read it all.

     It was decided that it might be a good idea to mention this list,
or
     possibly Bryceman's web page.  Perhaps say something like "My car
was
     restored/fixed/kept running with help from the Internet Olds
Mailing
     list and the free technical archives at http://www.442.com".

     Car Craft's Address Is:

     Car Craft
     6420 Wilshire Blvd.
     Los Angeles, CA  90048-5515

     If your picture is in black-and-white, you can send it to the above

     address, but Attn: Reader's Page and perhaps they'll print your car
in
     the back!  FYI, The disclaimer in Car Craft's "Reader's Letters"
     section says ". . .and should include the writer's name, address,
and
     telephone number.  We reserve the right the edit and/or condense
     letters for clarity, brevity, and other purposes".  No, that wasn't
my
     typo, that last "the" was theirs.

     Good luck!  I'm guessing we should see/hear/read any results around

     the March or April issue.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:41:00 -0400
Subject: key scrathces, cost of repair?

 I am freakin mad!!! Last night I caught one of the local punks in the
neighborhood running a key down my right rear quarter on my 93 Z. Put a
pretty deep cut
in the quarter and he then skipped the door and got a piece of the front
edge of the fender. The stupid a$s wasn't very clever as he did it he
yelled at his buddy and I jumped out of bed and pulled open the curtain
and looked him straight in the face, he naturally ran. So how much does
this cost on average to have a body shop remove the scratch? The car is
patriot red. Will the job done by a body shop be noticable? Anybody have
trouble with the new paint blending in? The paint on my 93 was flawless
until this. I thought my 80 442 would get it first since its paint is
flawless too but luck was with me until now. I just can't believe
teenagers nowadays.... Well paybacks are hell and in my case it helps
having a sister involved with the wrong type of people (couple of close
friends are inner city gang members) Soooo arrangements are being made
for his 90 Mustang GT to be in need of major repairs soon. - - - - - -
- - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2........
a real muscle car 80 4-4-2  W-30 ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in
reality)..a pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration
project that is currently up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:43:20 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 03:36 AM 11/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On the 215 they turn
>> the motor around backwards and use the flywheel as a prop hub.  So,
>> it is not only upside-down, it is backwards as well.  And with three
>> inch exhaust pipes sounds REALLY nice.
>>
>> dj
>
>
>Dennis,
>
>Speking of sound, my little 215 turbo Olds has one of the best deap
>rumbles at just off idle that a car could have.  For some reason, those
>small pipes have a sound just like a 394 w/a little louder than stock
>exhaust set.  It sounds wonderful idling through a car show & really
>draws attention.  It rivals 440 Mopars for good sound.
>
>Bill Culp
>Deatur, Alabama
>
This one's hard to imagine, a throatier sound than from a 440 Must Own
Pickup and Rope, really hard to imagine.  I have a 440 in my R.V. and
there's, well, there's nothing quite like it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:28:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Spark plug recommendations

     AC R-46SX plugs are what's recommended on most HEI Olds small
blocks.
     Gapped from 0.60 to 0.80 (!) depending upon the year.  I'd try
0.60.
     They're available at K-mart in 4-packs for pretty cheap.  With the
MSD
     you might try getting something a bit heavier duty, perhaps
platinum
     or if they make the "truck plug" version of the R-46SX. . .

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Spark plug recommendations
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/27/96 7:35 PM


Hi Gang,

I've just gotten my 455 back from the machine shop and will be
installing it this weekend.  I am installing an HEI distributor and an
MSD 6AL ignition box.  What spark plugs (and what gap) would you
recommend?


Thanks,
Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:58:18 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 01:51 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>=20
>> At 07:08 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>=20
>> Snip>
>>=20
>> The engines, you described, are "V" type, not opposed.  An opposed=20
>> engine has two pistons running in each cylinder, two crankshafts,
to=20 >> draw off the power and are rarely encountered in the "real
world."  You= =20 >> will note, that they are infact, 180=BA "V," "V"
type motors.  Calling=20 >> the 180=BA "V" type motor "opposed" had to
have occured a long time ago,= =20 >> by someone that was actually
unfamiliar with the nomenclature involved,= =20 >> and we are living
with this misnomer to this day. > >Or by somebody that had some sense.
While I have no doubt that the=20 >engine you described would be classed
as "opposed"; I have NEVER heard of= =20 >anyone referring to an engine
with horizontally opposed pistons (as in=20 >the Porsche/VW "flat"
motors) as a 180 degree "V".  That would make about= =20 >as much sense
as a 90 degree straight-8. =20 > >Have to research this further... >
>The 66 Toro and Mike > > >--=20 >Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation &
Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ >

You have now.  I think you should look at a 90=BA V, 8 cylinder, such as
the Olds 307/350/394/400/425/455 any one will do, they are all 90=BA Vs.
Just imagine pulling the cylinders apart until the V has gone to 180=BA
and then compare the arrangment to your "FLAT" Porsche/VW/Corvair motor.
FLAT does not mean opposed! It means 180=BA.

Just because you may have heard these engines being called opposed all
of you life, only indicates, and that you have been a victim of the
mis-nomenclature, all of you life.

If it isn't a 180=BA V type, describe a 180=BA V type, and forget that
pure=
 BS
about a 90=BA straight-8.

And if the engine with two pistons running in each cylinder, and dual
crankshafts isn't the true opposed engine, what is it?

If I'm right, which I am; and I have no sense, where does that leave
you?

The Wiz


Just because YOU may have heard=20

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:47:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums (was: GM Rear Axles)

At 03:57 AM 11/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> Drum brakes didn't end quite as abruptly as apparently you believe.
Disc >> brakes began to appear on GM cars in the mid-60s, the earliest
car I can >> remember for sure was my kid brothers '67 Chevelle SS 396
Convertible, > >  And I think that save for the Corvette, they were all
>> optional....  Mike tht lived across the street from me at the time
had a '66 >> Chevelle, and I think it had discs too, but I'm not sure,
so I must go up >> one year to my brother's '67. >> >> Standard disc
brakes probably didn't happen until the early 70s. >> >> >  Which
would be nice so that I can add that fact to my data of GM >> trivia. >>
 >> The Wiz > >Wiz, > >In 1966 GM put discs on the front of the
Chevelle & Buick using those >narrow (6"?) Corvette wheels, trim rings,
& lovely Corvette derived caps >saying "disc brakes".  Buick's had the
wheels painted red usually.  I >don't believe that Oldsmobile or Pontiac
got them until 1967. > >>From the beginning, these were 2-piston types
through 1969.  It took >special wheels to clear the calipers until the
single piston types in >1970.  I believe it was 1973 before disc brakes
were standard on >Cutlasses & that group. > >Avanti used front discs on
theirs in 1962.  Chrysler Imperial had them >in 1951.  AMC put them on
the Marlin in 1965.  I believe that Ford was >1966 - especially on the
GT Mustangs & Fairlanes.  Corvette, I believe, >began in 1965. > >Now
you know most of what I think that I know.  Best of all, these can >all
be pulled off a salvage car & put on yours rather easily. > >Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama > > Thanks for the update.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:28:27 -0400
Subject: Re: clock question

     The "rolling" numbers type of clock is what was on my '79.  I've
never
     seen an '80, but since in '79 the rear defrost switch was right
near
     the clock they couldn't fit a full face clock there.

     I suspect any digital clock circa 1980 would be the neon-type
display,
     like on my Motorola cell phone, or on the front of some VCR's that
     don't use LCD's.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: clock question Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/27/96 10:20 PM


This question may seen a bit stupid but I am not a clock expert so bear
with me. My 80 442 is supposed to have a digital clock from the
factory. I have a closk in there but am wondering if it is the digital
one or not? The one in there looks like a wall clock with the arms
rotating around. I have another clock out of a parts car that has a
solid number appearance and the minuites change by the numbers
"rolling" foward. Is this the digital clock for 1980? Was it an
electronic liquid crystal type of display clock? Thanks..... - - - - - -
- - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2........
a real muscle car 80 4-4-2  W-30 ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in
reality)..a pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration
project that is currently up for $sale$



------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:03:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Drums

At 11:53 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have heard about the older composite drums.  The reason why I said
>teh newer '80s drums are not as good is because of the size.  They are
>a lot smaller than the drums from the 60's.  I seem to remember hearing
>that (1) there were very few made, (2) they were only sold for some
type >of fleet use, (3) there were problems with alluminum/cast iron
corrosion >of separation making these undesireable.  The only advantage
I can think >of for them is to reduce rotational inertia and unsprung
weight >for drag racing, but I wouldn't want ot depend on them to stop
my car >after a 1/4 mile run repetitevely.  If they were made by GM,
that makes >them worse cosidering GMs quality problems with rotors in
then late 80's. > >
--------------------------- >Steve Ochs                    |
| >Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  | >GM
Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  | >Transmission
Division         |  #         #   # #   #  | >(4T60/65-E)
|  #   ####  #    #    #  | >                              |   #    #
#         #  | >'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #
| >'87 Grand National            |                         | >'76
Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  | >
--------------------------- >


Steve,

The strange thing here is, I've never heard of late model cars with
front drum brakes of any kind.  I assume then, that this application,
was a late model composite al/ci strictly a rear axle substitute for
pure ci.

When I was a kid there were a large number of Buicks around with the
finned al drums, and they were much superior to the plain ci kind.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:04:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Passenger Remote Mirror

At 11:53 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>My '87 442 came from the factory with the passenger remote mirror.
>It has never worked right since new.  The first mirro wouldn't even
>move, so the dealer replaced it under warranty.  The new one is
>better, but I cannot get it to move reliably to the upper left.
>The cable is too long for coordinated motion.  Standard electric
>mirrors on the newer cars is one of hte best things GM has done in
>a while.
>
>                              ---------------------------
>Steve Ochs                    |                         |
>Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
>GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
>Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
>(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
>                              |   #    #   #         #  |
>'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
>'87 Grand National            |                         |
>'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
>                              ---------------------------
>
>
That doesn't say much for the mother country does it!

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:27:32 -0400
Subject: Re: key scrathces, cost of repair?

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> ...arrangements are being made for his 90 Mustang GT to be in need
> of major repairs soon.

Works for me.  As the saying goes: "What goes around comes around."

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:09:44 -0400
Subject: Re:

At 05:26 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Greg "Porky" Kalkhoff wrote:
>>
>> Where do you get that special "Lemon Juice" font from?  (:
>
>>From my local Ford dealer, where else?
>
>> Yeah, I watched Mr. Wizzard when I was a kid too!  (;
>
>OK then.  How do you get a helium baloon down from a high ceiling?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
Come on, you just wait.  In short order the Helium will leak thru the
side wall of the balloon and down it will come.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:59:32 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

C.R.F. wrote:
> =

> At 01:51 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >Or by somebody that had some sense.  While I have no doubt that the
> >engine you described would be classed as "opposed"; I have NEVER
heard =

> >of anyone referring to an engine with horizontally opposed pistons
(as =

> >in the Porsche/VW "flat" motors) as a 180 degree "V".  That would
make =

> >about as much sense as a 90 degree straight-8.
> >
> >The 66 Toro and Mike


> You have now.  I think you should look at a 90=BA V, 8 cylinder, such
as =

> the Olds 307/350/394/400/425/455 any one will do, they are all 90=BA
Vs. =


Cliff,

You need to stop that Evelyn Woods thing and slow down your reading a =

bit.  I said "about as much sense as a 90 degree STRAIGHT-8" not V-8.  =

I understand completely what a 90 degree V8 is.

> Just imagine pulling the cylinders apart until the V has gone to
180=BA =

> and then compare the arrangment to your "FLAT" Porsche/VW/Corvair =

> motor.  FLAT does not mean opposed!  It means 180=BA.

So you say.  And on your planet "flat" means "V"?

> Just because you may have heard these engines being called opposed all
=

> of you life, only indicates, and that you have been a victim of the
> mis-nomenclature, all of you life.

Obviously, one of us has.

> If it isn't a 180=BA V type, describe a 180=BA V type, and forget that
pu= re =

> BS about a 90=BA straight-8.

Why would you expect me to describe a 180-V when I neither proposed the
=

terminology nor agree that it is accurate?  That was your terminology, =

not mine.
 =

> And if the engine with two pistons running in each cylinder, and dual
> crankshafts isn't the true opposed engine, what is it?

I didn't say it wasn't.  If you'll go back an reread my original post, =

you find that I said "While I have no doubt that the engine you
described =

would be classed as "opposed"..."

> If I'm right, which I am; =


So you say.

> and I have no sense, where does that leave you?

I apologize if I implied that you have no sense.  I was suggesting that
=

whoever may have initiated the idea that an "opposed" engine REQUIRED
two =

crankshafts was incorrect.

It would have been fairer to say that you are a store house of knowledge
=

and that I have no business questioning such authority.

Having said that, I continue to maintain that "opposed" refers to a
pairs =

of cylinders that operate at 180 degrees in relation to each other.  If
=

you have some reference to the contrary...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- =

Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:45:57 -0400
Subject: WARNING!  NON OLDS!  Was:

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> >How do you get a helium balloon down from a high ceiling?
> >The 66 Toro and Mike

> Come on, you just wait.  In short order the Helium will leak thru the
> side wall of the balloon and down it will come.

Bzzzt.  Sorry.  The correct answer is:  Shoot it with a water pistol.
The added weight of the water will bring the balloon back to earth.
Thank you for playing.

(and thanks to MR Wizard)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 23:39:36 -0400
Subject: Re: key scrathces, cost of repair?

Jason Labay wrote:
>
>  I am freakin mad!!! Last night I caught one of the local punks in the
> neighborhood running a key down my right rear quarter on my 93 Z. Put
a > pretty deep cut >

I had something close to that happen to me a few months back.  About
11:00 at night some kids were heard yelling outside the house.  There
were three standing around my Toyota Pickup while one was jumping up and
 down on the hood.  Of course they dissapeared into the night when the
porch light came on.

  Next day I went to several houses in the neighborhhood and found the
12 year old punk whose shoes matched the nice footprints on the hood.
Later that night he came over with his father (kid looked like he had
the shit beat out of him) to apologize.  The parents made the kid pay
for a new hood and paint which cost $480.00.  It took all his savings
plus selling his bike and video games.

 Hopefully this taught him a lesson and he'll have more respect for
other peoples property.

George Torch

62 Dynamic 88
66 Corvair Monza
90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:18:49 -0400
Subject: Re: WARNING!  NON OLDS!  Was:

At 10:45 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>=20
>> >How do you get a helium balloon down from a high ceiling?
>> >The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>> Come on, you just wait.  In short order the Helium will leak thru
the=20 >> side wall of the balloon and down it will come. > >Bzzzt.
Sorry.  The correct answer is:  Shoot it with a water pistol. >The added
weight of the water will bring the balloon back to earth. >Thank you for
playing. > >(and thanks to MR Wizard) > >The 66 Toro and Mike > > >--=20
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > > Well I suppose you could shoot it
down with a water pistol, I suppose I had a different concept of a "High
Ceiling!"  However, as the Helium atom is smaller than the space between
the matrix of the rubber in the balloon wall, it will shortly leak thru,
and when equilibrium is lost, the balloon, will discend on its own mass.

My water pistol will not shoot as high as my concept of a high ceiling.

On yes, one more thing, Mr. Wizzard was my uncle.  If you liked "Mr.
Wizzard," what did you think of "Science Fiction Theatre?"

I am in the process of moving, and I do not have access to the necessary
texts to provide printed references at this time.  Also, I called the
engine such as a Porsche a V type, as it might be difficult for some
people to comprehend the concept of a 180=BA V.  I would therefore ask
you to=
 entertain
another suggestion, in that you reverse the previous suggestion.  Take a
Porsche engine, and bend it so that the cylinders centerlines are only
90=BA apart.  You now have an 'wrongly designated opposed engine' that
would pass as a V type.

And the reason that 'opposed type' is not a satisfactory nomenclator for
the Porsche 180=BA type, is that there is an engine design that is of
the=
 "opposed
type."  And is doubtful Dr. Porsche would recognize it as what he was
using in his automobiles or tanks.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:21:12 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

>Having said that, I continue to maintain that "opposed" refers to a
pairs >of cylinders that operate at 180 degrees in relation to each
other.  If >you have some reference to the contrary... >Michael R.
Frederick

I would concur with you...my father and brother are VW freaks, and we
have always referred to VW engines as "opposed".  My father in law has
an 88 Subaru with a liquid cooled opposed four cylinder.  Never heard
the term "180 degree V" before; it doesn't make any sense. - -- Dave
Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne,
Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 00:35:04 -0400
Subject: Re: key scrathces, cost of repair?

George Torch wrote:
>
> Next day I went to several houses in the neighborhhood and found the
> 12 year old punk whose shoes matched the nice footprints on the hood.
 > Later that night he came over with his father (kid looked like he
had > the shit beat out of him) to apologize.  The parents made the kid
pay > for a new hood and paint which cost $480.00.  It took all his
savings > plus selling his bike and video games.

Oooo!  Good one.  I'da bought dad a beer just for being a stand up guy.
 Ain't enough of them left anymore.   :(

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:23:02 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

>> >I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted 215's.

>I have a "www" site address and you could ask there...Ask for
>any/and/or all and I shall send.
>dj

I'd like the WWW address...

Thanks
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 00:49:47 -0400
Subject: Re: WARNING!  NON OLDS!  Was: Nothing what-so-ever

C.R.F. wrote:
> =

> However, as the Helium atom is smaller than the space between the =

> matrix of the rubber in the balloon wall, it will shortly leak thru, =

> and when equilibrium is lost, the balloon, will discend on its own =

> mass.

Very true.  However, I suggest you try to explain the concept of =

"shortly" to a crying three year old.
 =

> My water pistol will not shoot as high as my concept of a high
ceiling.

I can recommend a very good urologist if you like.

> On yes, one more thing, Mr. Wizzard was my uncle.  =


Give my best regards to Don.

> If you liked "Mr. Wizzard," what did you think of "Science Fiction =

> Theatre?"

Liked it very much.  But in my early days, my favorite show was "What in
=

the World" were artifacts were displayed and various guest experts tried
=

to guess the culture and period.  Much like figuring out when disk
brakes =

showed up on Oldsmobiles  <----(NOTE: hidden Olds content)

> I am in the process of moving, and I do not have access to the =

> necessary texts to provide printed references at this time.  	=

I'm a patient man.

> Also, I called the engine such as a Porsche a V type, as it might be =

> difficult for some people to comprehend the concept of a 180=BA V.  =


Difficult?  Yeah, "difficult" would be a good word to use for this in a
=

3-D universe.  Flatlanders might buy it though.

> I would therefore ask you to entertain another suggestion, in that you
=

> reverse the previous suggestion.  Take a Porsche engine, and bend it
so =

> that the cylinders centerlines are only 90=BA apart.  You now have an
=

> 'wrongly designated opposed engine' that would pass as a V type.

Or shorten the legs on a kangaroo and you'd have a very large bunny.  =


> And the reason that 'opposed type' is not a satisfactory nomenclator =

> for the Porsche 180=BA type, is that there is an engine design that is
=

> of the "opposed type."  =


Only one?

> And is doubtful Dr. Porsche would recognize it as what he was using
> in his automobiles or tanks.

And doubtful he would recognize your rational.  Verstehen Sie?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- =

Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:39:08 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 09:21 PM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Having said that, I continue to maintain that "opposed" refers to a
pairs= =20 >>of cylinders that operate at 180 degrees in relation to
each other.  If=20 >>you have some reference to the contrary...
>>Michael R. Frederick > >I would concur with you...my father and
brother are VW freaks, and we have >always referred to VW engines as
"opposed".  My father in law has an 88 >Subaru with a liquid cooled
opposed four cylinder.  Never heard the term >"180 degree V" before; it
doesn't make any sense. =20 >-- >Dave Paulison                  1969
Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme =20 >Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >dpauliso@gate.net > > Sense or not, calling a V
type engine opposed is even less so.  I would say that you, your father
in law, your father and brother could use a refresher course in:

        1. Sense, especially on how to make some

        2. Proper automotive nomeclature

        3. A good course in the description of a V type engine, as well
as to discover what an opposed engine is.


And one more time:

        1. An opposed engine has two pistons running in each cylider
bore, opposed to one another; a feat that neither VW or Subaru has yet
to accomplish in their automobile production.  And opposed engine has
two crankshafts.  One more than either Subaru or VW or Porsche.

        2. A V type engine has a single crankshaft.  Two cylinder banks
aranged in a V order, in lieu of an inline engine, that has all of the
bores "inline." =20

If you look at a 350 Olds engine, you will discover an engine that is of
the V type.  The Olds's cylinder bores are offset by 90=BA and are
attached to a single crankshaft.  There is only one piston in each
cylinder, and the cylinders are in a pair of inline arrangements.

If you look at a VW/Porsche/etc engine, you will discover an engine that
is of the V type.  They have cylinder bores that are offset by 180=BA,
and are attached to a single crankshaft.  There is only one piston in
each cylinder, and the cylinders are in a pair of inline arrangements.

Everyone that will not understand this has been brainwashed by an
untruth, and are predisposed NOT to deal with it. =20

        3. What do you call an engine, with two pistons running in each
cylinder opposed to each other, and two crankshafts?  Well I call it of
the opposed type.

There are other engine designs that have been produced in some
quantities that are of even other types, such as radial, rotary (and
Mazda never used it), the rotary of Mazda's design, and X.  Yes some of
these are as obscure as the actual 'opposed' engine, but should never be
brought up here, as one of the commonest of all engine designs has
already over taxed too many.

And its too bad.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:57:09 -0400
Subject: Re: WARNING!  NON OLDS!  Was: Nothing what-so-ever

At 12:49 AM 11/29/96 -0400, you wrote:


=20
>> My water pistol will not shoot as high as my concept of a high
ceiling. > >I can recommend a very good urologist if you like. >

If yours shoots that high, you're in the wrong line of business.

>Difficult?  Yeah, "difficult" would be a good word to use for this in
a=20 >3-D universe.  Flatlanders might buy it though.

I have a physics text that decries that matter cannot be created or
destroyed, too. =20

>> I would therefore ask you to entertain another suggestion, in that
you=20 >> reverse the previous suggestion.  Take a Porsche engine, and
bend it so= =20 >> that the cylinders centerlines are only 90=BA apart.
You now have an=20 >> 'wrongly designated opposed engine' that would
pass as a V type. > >Or shorten the legs on a kangaroo and you'd have a
very large bunny. =20

You bet, but then the rabbits around here are not marsupials, I guess
things are different in Florida, very different.


>--=20
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
The Wiz

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 23:07:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

In a message dated 96-11-27 21:19:22 EST, you write:

> Blue?  Really?  I gonna have to see one of these.
>  No flame, I just haven't seen a blue LED
>

My parents have an '88 Cutlass Ciera that has one of these.  LED never
clicked with me until I read this response.  I would be more inclined to
say that it is a Fiber-optic device, like the front fender lamp monitors
are.
 LED isn't the right term here.  Still on the original bulb, we took
delivery in July, 88.

I'm remembering that I also had one of these in one of my late '70s 88s
or Ninety Eights.  It was next to the wiper switch and glowed yellow
when the washer fluid was low.  It was part of the optional reminder
package.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 23:07:36 -0400
Subject: Re: clock question

In a message dated 96-11-28 01:15:03 EST, you write:

> Is this the digital clock for 1980?
>  Was it an electronic liquid crystal type of display clock?
Thanks..... >  - - - - - - - - - - -

The clock you have is right for an '80 Cutlass.  The big cars in '80 did
have optional flourescent digital clocks (UD8 $89).  The '80 Ninety
Eights and Toronados had optional seek and scan radios with digital
tuning that included a digital clock in place of the one in the dash.  A
delete plate was provided for those cars.

Don't know why your 442 has an analog (?) clock, as the SPECS
specifically states that a digital clock is part of the 442 package.
Maybe a previous owner had problems with the digital.  I had a number of
'78 and '79 big cars, all had digitals, and I don't remember any of them
working to save their lives.  Or, maybe it was installed by a dummy at
the plant that didn't know any better.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 23:07:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 1988 Hurst/Olds

In a message dated 96-11-28 15:09:32 EST, you write:

> Originally the kit was available in the Spring of 1988 from a company
called
>  Action Products located in Tempe Az.

I worked for an Olds dealer back then.  These kits were advertised in
JWO and I showed the ad to my dealer and tried to convince him to order
one for our showroom.  He wasn't interested, didn't think he'd have been
able to sell it...

Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:17:57 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Sense or not, calling a V type engine opposed is even less so.  I
would > say that you, your father in law, your father and brother could
use a > refresher course in:

<SNIP>

> Everyone that will not understand this has been brainwashed by an
> untruth, and are predisposed NOT to deal with it.

<SHIP>

> And its too bad.
>
> The Wiz

Never mind.  You're a looney.

Tha 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:45:55 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

> >
> >
> >Dennis,
> >
> >Speking of sound, my little 215 turbo Olds has one of the best deap
> >rumbles at just off idle that a car could have.  For some reason,
those > >small pipes have a sound just like a 394 w/a little louder than
stock > >exhaust set.  It sounds wonderful idling through a car show &
really > >draws attention.  It rivals 440 Mopars for good sound. > > >
>Bill Culp

> >
> This one's hard to imagine, a throatier sound than from a 440 Must Own
> Pickup and Rope, really hard to imagine.  I have a 440 in my R.V. and
> there's, well, there's nothing quite like it.
>
> The Wiz

Wiz,

I didn't say better; just rivals.  Maybe you aren't old enough to
rememeber contests where you have to name the car going down the street
w/out seeing it.  In the '50s particularly, all cars had their unique
sounds.  Oldsmobile had one of the best.  Corvette was another & who
could forget a Ford flathead w/Smittys.  Those sounds were beautiful &
continued w/the high performance cars of the '60s.

A proper restoration isn't right w/out these sounds.  I worked hard to
get my '68 442 right, had to install resonators on the '67 Toronado to
get the correct muted rumble, & double wall exhaust pipes for my Buick
GS 455 for that authoritive sound.

A good car is a visceral, emotional thing.  An Oldsmobile of the '50s &
'60's has a rumble that says power & control.  It is a definite time
warp that few modern cars have resurrected & only a select few such as
the mid '80s 442s & H/Os.  Ever listen to a Honda?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 18:04:15 -0400
Subject: Re: key scrathces, cost of repair?

George Torch wrote:
>
>
> I had something close to that happen to me a few months back.  About
> 11:00 at night some kids were heard yelling outside the house.  There
> were three standing around my Toyota Pickup while one was jumping up
and > down on the hood.  Of course they dissapeared into the night when
the > porch light came on. > >   Next day I went to several houses in
the neighborhhood and found the 12 > year old punk whose shoes matched
the nice footprints on the hood.  Later > that night he came over with
his father (kid looked like he had the shit > beat out of him) to
apologize.  The parents made the kid pay for a new > hood and paint
which cost $480.00.  It took all his savings plus selling > his bike and
video games. > >  Hopefully this taught him a lesson and he'll have
more respect for > other peoples property. > > George Torch >

George,

Nice parent.  I'll bet the parents have an improved version of a 12
year-old son now.  It is hard to be mad at people who do right after
being stupid.  I'm glad you told the story.  We need those at Christmas
time.  Maybe he will get an Olds for Christmas.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:14:46 -0400
Subject: Re: key scrathces, cost of repair?

>
> George,
>
> Nice parent.  I'll bet the parents have an improved version of a 12
> year-old son now.  It is hard to be mad at people who do right after
> being stupid.  I'm glad you told the story.  We need those at
Christmas > time.  Maybe he will get an Olds for Christmas. > > Bill
Culp > Decatur, Alabama


Well, your not gonna believe this!  Just after I typed in the last
message and logged off a neighbor called to tell me that the guy across
the street that just moved in a few days ago nailed the back of my truck
 with his and took off!  Went out and sure enough smashed corner of the
 quarter panel and a busted tail light.  Cops just left a little bit
ago.
 Can't wait to confront this guy in the morning!

I think if he gives me a hard time, his truck is gonna meet up with a
BIG BLACK 62 OLDS.

George Torch

62 Dynamic 88
66 Corvair Monza
90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 01:08:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Spark plug recommendations

In a message dated 96-11-27 22:19:03 EST, you write:

<< Hi Gang,

 I've just gotten my 455 back from the machine shop and will be
installing it
 this weekend.  I am installing an HEI distributor and an MSD 6AL
ignition
 box.  What spark plugs (and what gap) would you recommend?


 Thanks,
 Bob >>

Since you are using the MSD 6al box, I would recommend NGK 5670-6
spark plugs.  They are like the NGK X45 but a little better.  The gap
for these plugs are set at .040 gap.  Make sure your timing is set
at 36 degrees total.  The inital should be around 18 is you bought the
recurve kit.  If not, buy the kit and put on one light spring and one
medium spring with the weights and that will give you close to your
timing.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 01:46:07 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

>Sense or not, calling a V type engine opposed is even less so.  I would
say
>that you, your father in law, your father and brother could use a
refresher
>course in:
>
>        1. Sense, especially on how to make some
>
>        2. Proper automotive nomeclature
>
>        3. A good course in the description of a V type engine, as well
as >to discover what an opposed engine is. >The Wiz

Goodness, that's not very polite.  Have you never learned any manners?

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:05:39 -0400
Subject: Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

At 01:46 AM 11/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Sense or not, calling a V type engine opposed is even less so.  I
would >say >>that you, your father in law, your father and brother could
use a >refresher >>course in: >> >>        1. Sense, especially on how
to make some >> >>        2. Proper automotive nomeclature >> >>
3. A good course in the description of a V type engine, as well as >>to
discover what an opposed engine is. >>The Wiz > >Goodness, that's not
very polite.  Have you never learned any manners? > >Graham Stewart
>Toronto, Canada >graham.stewart@utoronto.ca > > Manners, why not start
at the beginning of this, before you begin casting dispersions.

Looney

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #385
********************************
 
