To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/25/96 09:52:04 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #343


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 25 October 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 343


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:05:18 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, buehner wrote:

>      I've always liked those types of things, thanx for the laugh.
I've > just spent 4 hours reloading Windoze for Dips**ts, soI certainly
needed it! > >      Ya missed a couple of my ~personal~ favorites, tho' >
 > >FORD >    F***, Our Ride Died! > > > >OLDSMOBILE >    Oh Look,
Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking Everything! > >
Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >       Box 1255
| Montana State University-Northern >       Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >       "Rockit 1"            | '81
Olds Cutlass 425 >       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > Hmm, and I always heard Ford meant
"First on race day"...:)

Oh and there is MOPAR "More old parts and rust" (and I heard that from a
 big time>CHrysler racer...)

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:36:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....    I'M BACK!!!!

computer glitch.... sorry  ...  (continued)

easily - controllable, non spill, vent controlled, custom oil spout!


remember....

the tips are for any car, not just oldsmobiles....

send them in and have a chance at winning prizes...

to do this, when you send your tip... send me a mailing address (which
will not receiving your prize in the mail....

the prizes are small and what i can afford but 3 will be givin...
the copy of the resto tips book will be for sale for just the cost of
paper and end of january (but is subject to change).


remember, keep the tips coming in!!!

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:25:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

Tony Waldner writes:
>Mike......you missed the boat a little about the 4 bolt main stuff....
>Both Chev and Olds built high quality big block power.  Neither by any
means >were built cheap.  I can tell that you have never seriously built
either >engine >to any extent.  I have both in my garage and can tell
you that both are >exceptional performers.  I have written before about
Chevy bashing,  and I >still don't know why some people bash a sister GM
division!  Go after Ford!

FLAME mode: ON

EXCUSE ME?!!!!!!

I didn't miss the D**N BOAT about anything! There ARE, in FACT, strength
 differences between chubby motors and Olds motors in the 60's and
early 70's. Chubby IS cheaper and THAT is a fact, DEAL WITH IT! I have
personally built approximately 14 Olds engines since 1978. One of those
engines was a supercharged big block with a GMC 6-71 and raced. I still
have the supercharger. I suppose that over 1000 HP doesn't count as
"seriously built" in your book, eh? It sure as H**L does in mine! As far
 as chubby bashing goes, this is a OLDSMOBILE mail group and anything
is fair game (even Oldsmobile) as long as it's constructive criticism
and truthful. Maybe you would like my contacts at the Defiance, Ohio
engine plant or possibly a personal close friend of mine who ran the GM
Tech Center in the early 70's. These are the sources for MY
information, maybe you want to continue the arguement with them?

>About the 4-bolts......Olds built the big block to push around heavy
street >cruisers at low rpm.  They make TONS of torque at very low rpm
and have a >pretty flat curve.  These engines weren't designed around
high revs and >anyone who has built one knows that the first thing you
do is to stud the >mains and add main cap reinforcement straps.  About
the same thing 4-bolts >do on a Chev.  IT STOPS MAIN BEARING CAP WALK
AND FAILED BEARINGS. Remember >all of the talk about windowed blocks?

Oh, my... I can't help but smile and shake my head here.... Your
implication that chubby motors DID NOT have the same purpose of, as you
put it, "push around heavy street
cruisers at low rpm". They most certainly did, my friend. Please don't
try to suggest that W-30 or 31 motors are any less high revving than
LT-1's or LS-6's. STOCK motors, regardless of manufacturer, do not need
studs, reinforcement straps, girdles or anything else UNLESS you used
crap iron in which case you need 4 bolts to keep the cap on. You want to
 up the HP and torque? Fine, you have just now changed the original
design parameters for strength and load, those goodies may need to be
included on the motor. All things are designed about given parameters,
you go outside of the parameters, you need to add all of the above
goodies. By the way, there is no failure mode for windowed main blocks
given the purpose they were originally designed for. You change the
parameters of design and OF COURSE you have a problem but I'm sure you
already knew that...right?

>Please get your information right next time!

I am personally offended by your comments, I would NEVER write comments
to anyone as you have just done to me. For God's sake, man, you have
never met me and you don't have a clue about my experience with
Oldsmobile, it's cars or the knowledge base that I draw upon. Instead,
you have chosen to take this path. You know, normally, every day of
every week of every month I am a "reader" of this list and not a "daily
 poster". I am not an aggressive person as many on this list know, I am
 very aggressive when attacked...

Jason Labay writes:
>So what would that make some of the 80's Cutlass's powered by Chevy
305's?

Please see Mike's Rule of Thumb...

>I mean after
>all shouldn't Oldsmobile be thankful to Chevy it is still in existence?

Someone help me out here, does this really need a reply???

>I thought I remember Chevy wanting to pull the plug on the division.

I see you haven't read "Setting The Pace" yet...

Steve writes:
>Actually I don't think anyone should be "bashing" any American car
make!!! >Come on folks, they all put out something good at one point
and many of >them are still today...

I AGREE! Chevrolet is the low cost (read cheap) hi-volume division of
GM. Cadillac is the high cost (read expensive) low-volume division of
GM. This is not "bashing", this is simply reality. Mike's Rule of Thumb
is not a "bash" it is the truth. For the Politically Correct (PC)
crowd, call cheap "Cost Effective" and expensive (Ultra Quality) if you
wish. Sorry, I'm not PC!


To Greg Beaulieu and the group: I will drop this at this point, I was
incensed and felt the need to reply to the group. I am sorry for any
hurt feelings, waste of bandwidth and the weather in your area.

FLAME mode: OFF
"Reader" mode: ON


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:34:23 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>From mblanken Thu Oct 24 23:32:12 1996
To: oldsmobile@chebuchto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: some car humor



FORD - Fu$%in Old Rebuilt Dodge

CHEVROLET - Cheap Heads Every Valve Rattles Oil Leaks Every Time.


- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:43:42 -0300
Subject: Overdrives for Olds (200-4R info) LONG

With all this talk on overdrives and the like, I figured I would give a
run down on the 200-4R I promised a while back.  As some of you know, I
had some major problems with the one I had built for my 79 Cutlass.  But
in turn, I learned a great deal about these tranny's (and spent a few
bucks too...)

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4  - WHICH ONE SHOULD I USE BEHIND AN OLDS
Most people believe that the 700-R4 is better tranny than the 200-4R.
 According to a recent Hot Rod Article "The Great Debate - 700-R4 vs.
200-4R - - Which is the Better Overdrive", March 1995, "both can handle
600 lbs-ft or torque and around 700 hp."  Therefore, all you have to do
is pick the correct one for your Olds.  200-4R's have either a BOP bell
housing or a universal bell housing (BOP & Chevy).  This makes it a
direct bolt in for your Olds.
 It is the same length as a 350 and uses the same drive shaft, but has
the mount for the cross member in the same location as a TH-400. As for
the 700-4R, it only has a Chevy bell housing so an adapter plate will
have to be used.  It is also longer than a 400 by 2", so a custom length
drive shaft will have to be made as well as the crossmember being
relocated.  Below is a chart which relates the lengths of the common
tranny's to there tranny mount locations.

Trans       Overall   Rear Trans
               Length   Mount Position
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
TH350       27"       19.5"
TH400       28"       26.25"
TH200-4R  27"       26"
TH700-R4  30"       21.25"

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4 GEAR RATIOS
One important thing to look at while choosing an overdrive for your Olds
is the gear ratios they have.  The 700-R4 has a huge jump from 1st gear
to 2nd gear, which will hurt acceleration.. The car will really launch
in 1st gear but puke when it hits 2nd.  I am not saying that you will be
dissapointed with a 700-R4, but if you drag race the car at all the the
gear ratios should be something to consider.  As for the 200-4R, the
gear jumps are more evenly spaced out and it has a better overdrive
ratio.  See the chart below for common trans gear ratios:

Trans              1st    2nd   3rd   4th
- ----------------------------------------------------
350                 2.52  1.52  1.00  ---
400                 2.48  1.48  1.00  ---
200-4R            2.74  1.57  1.00  0.67
700-4R            3.06  1.62  1.00  0.70

Since I choose a 200-4R, the rest of this will concentrate on that
particular trans. Some of this is copied from a previous post of mine on
the 86 442 trans...

BACKGROUND:
To begin, the 200-4R is loosly based on the 200 metric with the addition
of an OD drum.  Due to their relation to one another, the 200-4R has an
undeserved reputation of being weak like its notorious sister 200.
Although the 200-4R will not hold up very well it its stock form,  there
are a few modifications that will increase its strength and
dependability.

INFO RESOURCE:
Most if the information I have gathered is from Mike Kurtz at PMAC in
Houston, TX.  Most of the guys on the TR (Turbo Regal) mail list speak
highly of him, and you can get a text file of 200-4R questions from the
TR Web page (http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/buick.html).

CORES:
According to Mike, the most important thing in rebuilding a 200-4R is
the core you use.  86-87 Turbo Regal (TR) trans are the best cores to
use while the 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442/Hurst's are the next
best.  The reason the 86-87 TR trans's are better cores is that they
have a larger reverse boost valve, special governor, and a larger 2-3
intermediate servo.
 The 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442's trans are very similiar,
and use the same valve bodies (which is important) and and they can be
upgraded to 86-87 TR types with parts from GM.

CODES:
To determine what type of core you have or need, you have to look at the
code.  This code can be found on the passenger side of the trans near
the driveshaft and is attached with one rivet.  Sometimes these tags
were installed backwards at the factory, so it is possible that the code
is facing the wrong way.  The tag is a small piece of aluminum that will
be either natural & yellow or natural & blue and will have the 2 or 3
letter code on it along with the serial number stamped on it.
 The serial number will also include the 2 or 3 letter code mentioned
above.
  This code is EXTREMELY important!    Most people do not know that
there is a difference between these trans.  I've had people tell me that
a "200-4R is a 200-4R", and that is wrong.

Codes for 200-4R's:
** KZF - 442's
** CZF - Monte SS's
** BRF - Turbo Regals
** OZ - Hurst's
OM - 350 Olds Diesels
OG - 307 Olds
BY - 252 V6 Cars
AA & AP - Cadillac's
The codes marked with the ** are the ones with the better valve bodies.
The valve body itself will have the first two letters painted on it.  Be
careful because the paint comes off easily.  The special valve bodies
usually have a purple strip on them also.

VALVE BODIES:
According to Mike Kurtz, he has never had any success with any other
valve bodies than the ones marked with asteriks above.  Although the
casting numbers are the same, I am pretty sure that the bore sizes of
the valves within the valve body are different.  This makes a big
difference in the shift quality of the trans.

GOVERNORS:
The governor in a 200-4R determines the WOT shift points while the
location of the TV cable determines the shift points at anything under
WOT.  The tranny's marked with an asterik above have special governors
that will shift anywhere between 4800-5000 rpms at WOT depending on what
they came out of.
 Stock governors on non-performance based cars shifted at 3000 rpm at
WOT.
 This is important because with the 3000 rpm type governor, the trans
will shift from 1-2-3-4 very rapidly which makes for poor acceleration
at mild or light throttle.

UPGRADES:
There are a few common upgrades that most reputable trans builder
install in 200-4R's.  These include a 10 vane pump, heat treated stator,
pressure regulator valve, and a shift kit.

PUMP:
To replace the stock 7 vane pump, a 10 vane pump with heat treated vanes
and
 steel rings are used. This reduces irradic pressure readings with the
addition of the extra vanes while the very brittle cast iron ring is
replaced with a steel ring.  (This brittle cast iron ring is a common
weak point in the 200-4R.)

HEAT TREATED STATOR:
If you look at the stator in a stock 200-4R, you will probably observe
extreme wear marks on the splines.  Art Carr claims that a worn stator
will cause premature failure on the thrust bearing in the engine.
Therefore most aftermarket companies sell a heat treated version to
replace the worn stock one. This has to be pressed into the pump, and
costs around $70.

PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE:
To increase the line pressure and also reduce pressure fluctuations, the
stock pressure regulator valve can be replaced with a 'performance' one.
 This costs around $20 and is available from Art Carr and Mike Kurtz @
PMAC.

SHIFT KITS:
There are a couple a kits available on the market, but the one most of
the guys on the TR list recommend is the one from Mike Kurtz.  His kit
is modified Trans GO kit that works very well.  I have installed it on
my trans and am very happy with it.  B&M also makes a kit that works
well, but a few guys have had trouble with them.  As for the Trans GO
kit, they strongly recommend you avoid this kit due to a missing parts,
etc.  One of the newer kits from Trans Go has you drill the valve body
itself which is bad news since you can never go back to where you
started.  Keep in mind that a new TR valve body from GM costs over $500
with a $250 core charge.

DISCLAIMER:
I spent all summer playing with my 200-4R and spending alot of time
talking to guys on the TR list as well as to other tranny builders.
Sometimes these tranny's can cause some grief but really work well when
the bugs are ironed out. Please keep this in mind before tackling such a
project....

If anybody has any comments or questions, please drop me a line.  I am
sure I will add some things to this in the near future such as part
numbers and the like and maybe Dave can add it to the Olds FAQ....

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:54:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

Scott R Clark wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for
a new > one will probably help? > > Take the cap off to fuel up and you
can hear a large hisser emanating from > the tank. When I start the > >
car with 1/4 tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?) from the >
tank. > > Never mind the jokes... Joanne > > > >         Hey there! >
Pressure in the tank, huh?  Try putting an octane booster in the >
tank...instead of a bean burrito.  Sorry, could'nt resist!  ;) > >
That hissing you're hearing could actually be air going -into- the >
tank, not out of it.  Whats probibly happening is that as your fuel pump >
empties the tank, a partial vaccuum is forming because the tank is
sealed, > and no air can get in.  So, when you finally unscrew the cap,
you get a > "fisssss" as the air seeps in. > >         On the other
hand, it could be a  positive pressure in the tank, > Do you have a
charcoal canister plumbed to the vent on the tank? It's also > possible
something hooked to the canister is plugged (a vaccuum line, or > the
canister itself). I know later model cars have a filter under the >
canister that virtually never gets replaced (no one ever remembers,
myself > included) and it could be so plugged it's not letting anything
through. > >         In either case, a cap with a vent would solve the
problem, but not > the underlying cause of it. > >         Anybody else
want to take a stab at it? > >                         Scott >
1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

	On my 70 442 the pressure does build up and hisses, and it is a
build up, not a negitive pressure thing.  But my aftermarket cap,
without ventelation, sais on it that it is supposed to be that way.  So
I never thought about it until now.
Anyone else out there with answers?
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:02:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 442

Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>         It's not even winter here yet and I'm already making plans of
things to do with my 442 next spring.  I would like to get it repainted
(paint on back ha > > Thanks, > Steve > > P.S. I haven't gotten a
chance to adjust my T.V. cable yet (hope to do it Saturday) and oil
level was fine.  Thanks for the advice.

Steve,
	The stripes are painted on using a template.  Then, for best
results, clearcoated to smooth it all out.  You can get the templates
from Year One I believe.
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 02:13:59 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)


Could my 68 442 have AIR?  How do you tell?

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com

     Olds did not use A.I.R. on any car it built in 1968.  The system
was
     used on 66 and 67 cars built for sale in the state of California
only,
     than dropped completely in 68.  It resurfaced in 73 (I think - my
     experience only goes to 72) for all 50 states.

     Unless your car has a 66-67 California engine or a 73-later unit,
it
     does not have A.I.R.  You would also notice a silver belt-driven
air
     pump on the front of the engine and tubular air distribution
manifolds
     sticking up from the spark plug area of the heads.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442 (with A.I.R.)
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 02:06:27 -0300
Subject: Misc 68 W-30

Joe Padavano


Hey Joe,

     Another question on W-30's.  Would the engine/auto transmission be
the same in my non-W-30 as a real W-30.  Is the only difference between
them, in terms of performance, the RAM Air?

        In addition to the Ram Air (official Oldsmobile term, BTW, is
        Outside Air Induction or OAI), the 68 W-30 had unique heads (the

        "D" head - used only on 68-69 W-30s and Hurst/Olds), a special
        camshaft, and recalibrated distributor and Q-jet carb.  It
appears
        that a unique TH400 was also used, as my dealer parts book lists

        the "OW" trans for both 68 and 69 400 engine/OAI (note that the
        factory service manual does not list the OW for 68 - perhaps
        because this manual is usually written prior to the release of
        that year's cars - ie early 67 for the 68 model year - while the

        parts book I have covers 66 through 69 and thus must mave been
        written in 69).

I noticed that when I turn my air filter pan lid upside down, thus
exposing more surface area for air to get in, I get quite a boost in
performance.  I would say on the order of at least 10%.  Since this is
dissipated air flow, a RAM Air system would obviously force more air
into the carb and thus make a significant boost.  Does this sound
reasonable?

        Yes, however most "ram air" systems really do not increase the
inlet
        pressure appreciably, due to inlet duct positioning which has
more to
        do with styling than science.  The Ford Cobra Jet and Chrysler
shaker
        hoods, while good looking, were probably the least effective in
        ramming air into the carb.  True to form, the Olds systems were
        actually among the best factory ram air systems.  The 67 W-30,
in my
        opinion, had to have been the best, as the inlet scoops were
located
        at the high pressure area adjacent to the headlights (similar to
the
        Ford Thunderbolt, which acually used the headlight buckets as
the
        inlet).  The 66 and 68-69 under-bumper systems were only
slightly
        worse, while the 70-72 W-25 hood, while a very good-looking
piece,
        did not suck air from the highest-pressure region.

        Note, however, that the horsepower gained from this minor
pressure
        increase is really negligible.  The real improvement comes from
        lowering the inlet charge temperature.  I seem to recall that
you
        get a 1 horsepower increase for every 7 degrees you lower the
inlet
        temperature (thus the more technically correct Oldsmobile name
of
        Outside Air Induction rather than ram air) - assuming you jet
the
        carb richer to take advantage of this cooler, denser air.

        Note that this assumes equal inlet restriction.  Your reversal
of
        the lid on your factory air cleaner is improving your power due
to
        the dramatic improvement in airflow by eliminating the
restictive
        snorkle.  This typical air cleaner design is a tradeoff of power
and
        noise (the latter not a typical concern for most members of this

        list).

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com
1968 442


Hi,
Also, (myself being a '68 442 convert. owner) I'm auwfully sure
that the ram air option was available on regular 442's.  I know because
a guy I know bought a '68 442 convertable with ram air, and
tic-toc-tac, and it was not a W-30.

Later,
Craig Dobbins.

        Actually, Craig, I'm pretty sure that the 68 OAI setup was only
        factory available on the W-30, the Hurst/Olds, and the Ram Rod
350
        (forerunner of the W-31).  Having said that, Detroit did a lot
of
        non-standard special orders in the 60s, so anything could be
        possible.  Keep in mind, however, that Olds did a lot of dealer
        installations of this type of hardware; the OAI air cleaner was
        available at the parts counter under P/N 6424958 for the sum of
        $66.20 (where's that time machine when you really need it).  The

        under bumper scoops were likewise available for $43.65 each (P/N

        402522 and 402523).  Also, at the time, some of these units did
        show up either in wrecking yards or in the trash as "racers"
        discarded the factory OAI setups for open element air cleaners.
My
        own 68 W-30 was missing the air cleaner and hoses when I got it.

        Fortunately, I was able to find the correct air cleaner not too
        long after buying the car.

        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:31:40 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: A.I.R.

>      loop makes me feel much better.  By not pumping air into the cat
I'm >      not going to cause it to burn up or anything like that I
hope, it just >      won't work as well?

Tom, don't worry about the catalytic converter.  Converters with an
A.I.R. line running to them are actually a 2 in 1 design.  The extra
oxygen is to improve the efficiency of reducing CO and HC in the 2nd
bed.  During rich engine operation (heavy throttle), air is diverted to
the air cleaner to avoid overheating of the converter.  Disconnecting
the AIR pump is just a sure way of protecting things! :)

>      I've heard that some mini-go-cart racers use these air pumps as a
 >      supercharger.  How's that for innovative?  Or maybe I'll get
some air

That's interesting!  Just string 3 or 4 pumps together....  <g>

> Lately, I've seen the many posts concerning the A.I.R. system on newer
> Olds's and I've got a question about mine?  I've got an '84 and when
the > motor is cold, anytime I give it any throttle at all, there is a
clear > chugging sound.... > It sounds like I have tapping
lifters/valves

Jason, this is probably unrelated to the A.I.R. system.  It could be an
exhaust leak at one of the manifold bolts or a cracked manifold.  This
will produce a camshaft speed ticking that will diminish/disappear when
the engine is warm.  On the other hand, it could be a faulty EFE valve
(at the driver's side exhaust manifold outlet), which may be seizing in
an intermediate position when vacuum is applied (during cold eng.
operation). I usually notice a little (up to 10 sec. duration) EFE valve
chattering when the valve is in a transition state (moving from closed
to open), as would occur when the engine is warming up and the TVS
hasn't fully switched.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:25:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

At 07:25 PM 10/24/96 -0400, Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>To: Multiple recipients of list FINEWINE <FINEWINE@NETSPACE.ORG>
>
>I like Berringer white zinfandel when I'm not in the mood for something
more >expensive.... >like..... >a nice Utah Blue.

Hmmm, Mike, I think you better stick to coffee for the rest of the
night, before you get charged with TWI.

(Typing While Intoxicated, of course)


- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Syntac@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 03:41:24 -0300
Subject: Hurst/olds 1983

        I have a Hurst olds 1983 still in great shape and will continue
to be that way. I am looking for posters, promo pictures, H/O pamphlet
that came with the car, model kit and anything else related to the 1983
Hurst/Olds only.

Please email info or send to Luciano Bragagnolo, 6607 Garnier, Montreal
Quebec Canada H2G 3A2.        thanks

------------------------------

From: Svnty98@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 04:01:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Brakes again

CHECK THE VACUUM SUPPLY TO THE BOOSTER- SHOULD BE MANIFOLD VAC. ONCE
BOUGHT A BONNEVILLE RAGTOP FOR A DOLLAR AFTER THE GUY THAT OWNED IT HAD
SPENT ABOUT THE SAME TIME/MONEY W/O CK'ING THE VAC. CONNECTION.
SVNTY98@AOL.COM

------------------------------

From: Svnty98@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 04:15:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Forwarded Message

WHERE'S THE LEAK? COULD HAVE HAD TOO MUCH CUT OFF OF THE FIRE DECK
STAIGHTENING THE HEADS  AND NOW THE MANIFOLD/VALLEY PAN/HEAD JOINT
DOES'T JOIN PROPERLY.

------------------------------

From: Svnty98@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 04:24:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Testing....

FINALLY!!!!!!!! SOMEBODY ELSE W/A '70 98 RAGTOP. NOW I KNOW OF (3)
OTHERS STILL IN EXISTENCE. YOURS, MINE, ONE IN FON DU LAC, AND ONE IN
CORAL GABLES. I'M AT SVNTY98@AOL.COM, OR 847 282 9546

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:08:17 -0300
Subject: RE: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

Actually, it was pea soup. :) The gas tank was replaced 4 years ago =
because it was leaking like a sieve. Does this mean that this filter or
= canister would probably have been replaced too, or at least inspected?
= Probably not if it is part of the fuel system, but not part of the
tank. = The fuel pump was replaced last fall.=20 86 Cutlass Supreme
Coupe (307). Thanks, Joanne

- ----------
From: 	Scott R Clark[SMTP:mickeyd@selway.umt.edu]
Sent: 	Thursday, October 24, 1996 3:32 PM
To: 	'Oldsmobile Mailing List'
Subject: 	Re: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank




> Hi,
>=20
> I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for a
= new=20 one will probably help? > Take the cap off to fuel up and you
can hear a large hisser emanating = from=20 the tank. When I start the >
car with 1/4 tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?) from =
the=20 tank.=20 > Never mind the jokes... Joanne >=20

	Hey there!
	Pressure in the tank, huh?  Try putting an octane booster in the
tank...instead of a bean burrito.  Sorry, could'nt resist!  ;) =20
=09
	That hissing you're hearing could actually be air going -into- the
tank, not out of it.  Whats probibly happening is that as your fuel pump
empties the tank, a partial vaccuum is forming because the tank is =
sealed,
and no air can get in.  So, when you finally unscrew the cap, you get
a=20 "fisssss" as the air seeps in.   =20

	On the other hand, it could be a  positive pressure in the tank,=20
Do you have a charcoal canister plumbed to the vent on the tank? It's =
also
possible something hooked to the canister is plugged (a vaccuum line, or
the canister itself). I know later model cars have a filter under the
canister that virtually never gets replaced (no one ever remembers, =
myself
included) and it could be so plugged it's not letting anything through.
=


	In either case, a cap with a vent would solve the problem, but not
the underlying cause of it.
=09
	Anybody else want to take a stab at it?
=09
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Allen_R_MONROE@umail.umd.edu (am39)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:22:00 -0300
Subject: Re: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

>Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
>will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
>!!! some people


Excuse me? I personally like the turbo 400 auto. I don't have to worry
about shifting and I can use the free hand to wave to the guy in the
other lane as I leave him behind. >

Allen R. MONROE
Email:am39@umail.umd.edu
69 H/O
73 H/O
84 Ciera
86 Custom Crusier

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:26:04 -0300
Subject: Automatics are junk???

>I know that the TH400 in my Buick was a piece of garbage, starting
to slip a
>bit between gears after only 16 years and 220,000 miles!

Uh huh.  The TH400 in my '78 Ninety Eight was a piece of junk, too.
Started to slip at "only" 190,000 miles.  What an inferior piece of
equipment! <g>

- -Drew-

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:38:24 -0300
Subject: RE: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

The only reason I posted was because this is a fairly new phenomena for
= my car (after 10 years of ownership), but my concern is the pressure =
release (?) noise I hear in the tank when I start the car with .25 tank
of gas or less.

- ----------
From: 	Brad Bowles[SMTP:wolds@napanet.net]
Sent: 	Thursday, October 24, 1996 11:54 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

Scott R Clark wrote:
>=20
> > Hi,
> >
> > I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for
= a new > one will probably help? > > Take the cap off to fuel up and
you can hear a large hisser = emanating from > the tank. When I start
the > > car with 1/4 tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?)
from = the > tank. > > Never mind the jokes... Joanne > > >=20 >
Hey there! >         Pressure in the tank, huh?  Try putting an octane
booster in = the > tank...instead of a bean burrito.  Sorry, could'nt
resist!  ;) >=20 >         That hissing you're hearing could actually be
air going -into- = the > tank, not out of it.  Whats probibly happening
is that as your fuel = pump > empties the tank, a partial vaccuum is
forming because the tank is = sealed, > and no air can get in.  So, when
you finally unscrew the cap, you get = a > "fisssss" as the air seeps
in. >=20 >         On the other hand, it could be a  positive pressure
in the = tank, > Do you have a charcoal canister plumbed to the vent on
the tank? It's = also > possible something hooked to the canister is
plugged (a vaccuum line, = or > the canister itself). I know later model
cars have a filter under the > canister that virtually never gets
replaced (no one ever remembers, = myself > included) and it could be so
plugged it's not letting anything = through. >=20 >         In either
case, a cap with a vent would solve the problem, but = not > the
underlying cause of it. >=20 >         Anybody else want to take a stab
at it? >=20 >                         Scott >                 1960
Oldsmobile Rocket 98

	On my 70 442 the pressure does build up and hisses, and it is a=20
build up, not a negitive pressure thing.  But my aftermarket cap,=20
without ventelation, sais on it that it is supposed to be that way.
So=20 I never thought about it until now. Anyone else out there with
answers? Brad 70 442

------------------------------

From: "John L. Berenyi" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:40:22 -0300
Subject: I give up!!!

Slowly but surely my 67 Cutlass 330 cu in is dying and I dont know why.
The more I drive it the worse its getting.  Each day its driven to work
its gets lets power, eats more gas, and runs rougher.  I cant figure it
out.  The motor only has 20k on it!  I'm ready to trash the thing and
buy a 350 rebuild and bolt all the accessories on it.

Everything is new on the car or rebuilt.  Timing is perfect.  My preload
might need a little adjustment but I cant believe that that would
contribute to the problem.  Any ideas?



John

------------------------------

From: Steve Wieczorek <stevew@atsmail.gc.lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:44:29 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

Bob:
Could you describe the way the vacuum canister is connected
to the vacuum advance and any adjustments/settings.

Would this improve pinging on a computerized carb?

steve
'70 Cutlass
'83 98 Regency

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:51:25 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

JEff sez:

> Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
> will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
> !!! some people

Jeff, y'all better switch to decaf... and maybe figure out proper
placement of punctuation :)

...and, they're off!



Tim (Who Arose to the Bait) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:57:53 -0300
Subject: Re: I give up!!!

John L. Berenyi wrote:
>
> Slowly but surely my 67 Cutlass 330 cu in is dying and I dont know
why. > The more I drive it the worse its getting.  Each day its driven
to work > its gets lets power, eats more gas, and runs rougher.

What other symptoms have you got, John?  Hard starting, stalling, runs
bad cold/hot, black smoke out the pipe, vacuum ok, carb ok?  Send more
clues, please.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:19:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc 68 W-30

Joe Padavano wrote:
>
>   Yes, however most "ram air" systems really do not increase the inlet
>   pressure appreciably, due to inlet duct positioning which has more
to >   do with styling than science.

Ain't that the truth.

>   ... had to have been the best, as the inlet scoops were located
>   at the high pressure area adjacent to the headlights (similar to the
>   Ford Thunderbolt, which acually used the headlight buckets...

I recall some dragracers in the early 60s mounting the trumpet from an
"ahooga" horn in the highbeam hole of the Mopars.  As you point out, a
good spot -- out in front before the body of the car has a chance to
effect airflow.

>   Note, however, that the horsepower gained from this minor pressure
>   increase is really negligible.

Especially at low speed -- i.e. off the line.  You won't get squat until
 the car is moving at a fairly significant clip.

>   Note that this assumes equal inlet restriction.  Your reversal of
>   the lid on your factory air cleaner is improving your power due to
>   the dramatic improvement in airflow by eliminating the restictive
>   snorkle.

Bingo!  Most stock aircleaners are so restrictive, the motor is damn
near gasping.  I look at the airclearner on my Toro and wonder how that
425 is supposed to breath through those two tiny little holes -- much
smaller than the barrels themselves.  It has the same effect as
NASCAR's restrictor plate.

A low-restriction air cleaner is a much better inventment than a scoop
of unknown design grafted onto a spot on the hood that "looks right".

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:19:32 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

I sed:

> >Oh yeah, I remember it well -- it appeared on the bottom of all my
old > >Matchbox cars! :) >

R.I. Bob sez:

> Yeah, the only British car never to leak oil! :)

LOL Bob, ain't it the truth -- same goes for all other British
mechanical devices I've seen.  I owned 2 Triumph motorcycles... both fit
the stereotype of "Limey Leakers".

I was at SAC HQ in Omaha several years ago, and I got a chance to go to
the Air Museum on base... one of the planes on display outside was a
Vulcan bomber, a gift of the RAF -- The same plane flown in the
beginning of James Bond's "Thunderball" -- Well, this plane had tents
zipped over the landing gear; apparently, it was Standard Operatin'
Procedure to put these 'socks' over the landing gear after landing, to
keep the tyres (that's how *they* spell it) dry from the oil dripping
from above!



Tim (Who Doesn't Believe in Positive Grounds) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:23:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Ratios

Does anyone know what the gear ratios are for my 1968 442 400 CID
engine/ transmission?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:25:21 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

Charley sez:
>      Ya missed a couple of my ~personal~ favorites, tho'
>
> >FORD
>    F***, Our Ride Died!

..and a related one I heard many moons ago...

     F***ed On Raw Deal

And don't forget:

PONTIAC

Poor Old Nitwit Thinks It's A Cadillac



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:27:43 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

An anonymous individual wrote:

> Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
> will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
> !!! some people

Those of us who have automatics PREFER these types of cars!!!!!  I may
be coming into (Inheritence) a 1964 Corvette.  That puppy is history!!!!
It is NOT an automatic.....  "Value" is a relative term and one day
having a stick shift might be equated to having a 4-door sedan ;-)  You
need to be a little more tolerant!!!!!!!!!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:33:44 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

Bob Barry wrote:

> If it is pinging under part-throttle, then you likely need to reduce
the > amount of vacuum advance; Crane makes an excellent adjustable
vacuum-advance > canister that allows you to optimize your spark curve
for today's gas. Best > of all, it is only $20 (or basically 3/4 of a
tank of gas). I put one in my > Toro's unrebuilt 100,000 mile, 10.25:1
comp. ratio 455, and it doesn't ping > at all under any conditions.
Highly recommended.

Thanks!!!!!  I am not so mechanically inclined and any help I receive is
 EXTREMELY appreciated.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:57:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc 68 W-30

To Joe Padavano:

Thanks Joe!  You are very helpful especially to those of use who are
mechanically challenged :-)

Chris Sparks

P.S.

What did Craig Dobbins mean by "tic-toc-tac"?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:22:37 -0300
Subject: followup - balance

Hi all.

I saw the school's mechanic and he says the front end has a little play
but not enough to worry about.  He suspects a defective tire.

Seeing has how the defective tire is from NTW, how do I present my case
against them?  Another joint balanced their tires, something that I
don't think is allowed according to their policies.  The other place
put one of their tires on the rear, but when it was spun balanced, the
tread went from side to side, indicating a bad tire or bent rim.

But rims on the wagon are HD and I haven't been beating on the wagon, so
the driveshaft shouldn't be bent.  There is always the spare tire...

Roger
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "RYAN KURYLO" <RSK0790@anubis.westmoreland.cc.pa.us>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:39:15 -0300
Subject: Re:Quad 4's and stats etc.

Hey Does any body out there know of any performane part stores for
quad 4's beside mantipart.
Ryan

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:54:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

Mike Hall writes:
>FLAME mode: ON
>
>EXCUSE ME?!!!!!!
>
>
>I AGREE! Chevrolet is the low cost (read cheap) hi-volume division of
GM. >Cadillac is the high cost (read expensive) low-volume division of
GM. >This is not "bashing", this is simply reality. Mike's Rule of Thumb
is >not a "bash" it is the truth. For the Politically Correct (PC)
crowd, >call cheap "Cost Effective" and expensive (Ultra Quality) if you
wish. >Sorry, I'm not PC!

Geez Mike!   I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers here!  But I do leave
you with a question or two....Cadillac...expensive....ultra
quality....Isn't the Fleetwood powered by a 350 "Chubby" LT1?  What
gives? Cadillac cheap?  Also, are 2 bolt main Chev blocks high nickel?

Darn it!  I own a '92 Seville too.....I wanted ultra quality!!!

Just kidding!  I really hate to see people get worked up here.  I enjoy
offering
my experiences I have had in my many years of Olds building and throwing
in my two cents once in a while.  You sound quite vested in your engine
skills.  I still stand by my guns though.  Both of these big blocks are
quite impressive.  Pull apart a hi-perf big block Chev and look at the
construction. Just as good as the Olds,  Even a steel crank!  I think
that is quality.

Again I am sorry for offending anyone here.  I enjoy this list and I
like the information that is shared. It is a great group of people here.


Tony

Cars........                                Boats...........
70 442 W-30                                 70 Rayson Craft  flat bottom
70 Toro GT W-34                             455 Olds V-drive 125 MPH H2o
Fun! 65 Jetstar 88 4-spd                         79 Sidewinder Jet  455
Olds 85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer             86 Wellcraft Nova  454
Chev 92 Seville STS  Ultra Quality!

 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
\_\_


                                        Tony Waldner
tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us                Northeast Metro 916
                                         3300 Century Ave. N.
                                         White Bear Lake, MN
                                                       55110

 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_+++_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:06:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst/olds 1983

In a message dated 96-10-25 02:47:40 EDT, you write:

<<  have a Hurst olds 1983 still in great shape and will continue to be
 that way. I am looking for posters, promo pictures, H/O pamphlet that
came
 with the car, model kit and anything else related to the 1983
Hurst/Olds
 only.
  >>

Do you belong to the Hurst/Olds Club? If not, check out our web page for
an application:

http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/spear/hurstolds/

Jon Wessel
Director
Hurst/Olds Club of America

------------------------------

From: Roger Heath <rheath@worldbank.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:46:50 -0300
Subject: Re: '71 Paint Code?

          The Dealer Information Bulletin for 71 gives the following:
          Sterling Silver, Paint Code 13 on body plate:
          Stock Numbers:
          Ditzler           2327
          Dupont            5276L
          Rinshed-Mason     A2438

          Roger Heath, 71 Delta 88 Royale Convertible.

------------------------------

From: "Michael Calvo" <mcalvo@hologic.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:08:04 -0300
Subject: [none]


     Phil De Simone Wrote:

     >"ONE" tank of gas! It's a combination of things in his case, but I

     >believe
     >the major factor is his gearing and his 6 speed trans.

     >So..... Ladies and Gentleman, tell me what you think. I know the 6

     >speed presents a lot more money since I would have to install an
     >extra pedal and clutch linkage, a floor mount (mine is on the
     >column), a new steering column, and driveline mods, I'm willing to

     >spend the money if it's worth it. OR..... the 700R4, I know not
     >simple, but more simple than the 6 speed option?
     >Thanks,

     In regards to your choice between a 700R4 and a six speed, I would
     lean more towards the GM's 4L60, (I think that's the correct model)
it
     was a heavier duty version of the 4 speed automatic. I remember
     reading about it a few years ago (I was considering the same
thing).
     You could even puchase the harness to put it in non computer
     controlled cars.  The other option I considered was a gear that you

     attached between the tranny and driveshaft, it was in last months
     issue of Popular Hotrodding and it was far cheaper than a new
tranny.
     One thing to consider though, is that at a few hundred or a few
     thousand dollar investment, that's still a lot of gas to save
before
     you see any return on your investment. Another fuel saving option
to
     consider is a  fuel injection system for carburated cars. Barry
Grant
     makes a nice unit and the new Holley digital Pro-Jection looks
pretty
     nice.

     Just my thoughts on the subject,

     Michael Calvo
     mcalvo@hologic.com
     1968 Cutlass Sumpreme
     1970 442 W30 4spd
     1986 F250 4X4 HD (in bad need of improved fuel economy)

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:29:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst/olds 1983

Jon Wessel wrote:

> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/spear/hurstolds/

Can't get to it!!!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:54:47 -0300
Subject: Hot Roddin' a 1947 Olds... I need your help!

I have a 1947 Olds without an engine...

do any of you have "Rodder's  Digest"?  i know september of 93 has an
article how to do this...  but do any of you have 2 issues before or 2
issues after??

I would like to follow it step by step and not miss anything, so if
anyone has this magizine please let me know!

Also, Does anyone have a 1981 oldsmobile? (I'm sure someone does!)

I need a few measurements from it.

There is an 81 olds in a junk yard that i will be able to use as a
"sub-frame" for the 47 but i need measurements for proper frame angle
and wheel alignment.

the measurements are:

ground to  inside "A" arm joint
ground to outside "A" arm joint  (both driver and pass. sides)
ground to  bottom bumper bolt    (both driver and pass. sides)
ground to center cross member (between the 2 tires up front)
ground to level part of frame by the fron door (both driver and pass.
sides) center of tire to center of tire measurement for the front wheels

if anybody can get these measurements for me it would be greatly
appreciated!

one last thing...  when taking measurements, besure the tires are
properly inflated...  (the measurements would be off if the tires were
flat!)  =)


Thanks...

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:53:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 vs. 6-speed

Jeff wrote:
>
> Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
> will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
> !!! some people
      ^^^^^^^^^^^...know what the hell they're talking about.
                 You obviously aren't one of them.

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:04:06 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Many of you probably bend your own break or fuel lines...

While commercial tube benders work best for break lines, sometimes you
want larger radius bends for hard fuel lines or other steel, aluminum,
or copper tubing.  One way to do this is to carefully bend the tubing in
the groove of a V - belt pulley.  You probably have several sizes in
your garage (and ones at the hardware store are much cheaper than large
diameter tube benders).  Filling the tube with sand also helps keep its
shape while bending.

Remember to keep the tips coming!

Some tips may seem basic to some of you, but remember... there is always
a new kid on the block that has never learned some of the "tricks of the
trade"!

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:51:18 -0300
Subject: Flames are high tonight!!! was: BB Olds vs BB Chevy

>
>FLAME mode: ON
>
>EXCUSE ME?!!!!!!


Ouch, well put, I guess.  Sure was fun reading, anyway :)  (Of course,
you know me, how I perk up my ears when I hear chevy bashing...)  I
can't attest personally to the 1000 HP ranges, but I can say that
bowties suck, and all it takes is one set of spark plugs to tell you
why...  It's nice being able to pop the hood on the Rockit when
everything's hotter than H*ll, and change all 8 plugs in fifteen
minutes, without frying every part of your arms. It's even nicer knowing
that we don't ~have~ to. :)

>
>>Actually I don't think anyone should be "bashing" any American car
make!!!

     Maybe so, but a lot of Fords were made in Canada, and a bunch more
in Mexico, so they're still fair game, right?  :)


>>I thought I remember Chevy wanting to pull the plug on the division.

     Isn't it called jealousy?

Wasn't Olds the very first one in GM?  Didn't Olds have the very first
V8? I don't recall the sequence of events that well, wasn't Olds around
before GM, and then was purchased by the company that later became GM?
Wasn't Chevy the very last one into the company?  (I mean, before Geo,
and Saturn, and non-returnable cans) Wouldn't that make Chevy the latest
child, rather than the brother/sister scenario?
     If only the morning after pill had been around...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:59:54 -0300
Subject: Re: I give up!!!

>Everything is new on the car or rebuilt.  Timing is perfect.  My
preload >might need a little adjustment but I cant believe that that
would >contribute to the problem.  Any ideas?

     Plugged exhaust?  Weak spark/battery?  Chevy gas :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:11:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Flames are high tonight!!!

Charley sez, "Love my Good-n-Plenty!" -- Oops, wrong Charley :)

*Olds* Charley sez:

>>Actually I don't think anyone should be "bashing" any American car
make!!!

>    Maybe so, but a lot of Fords were made in Canada, and a bunch more
in Mexico, so they're still fair game, right?  :)

And I think that applies to a lot (if not most) of the Chrysler
products, which are built in Cananda -- remember, some of their ads say
they're the "Best (fill in the blank) Car built in North America".

But just to point out a nit, wouldn't 'American' car apply to anything
built in the U.S., Canada, or Mexico?  Not to mention Brazil, etc... :)

> Wasn't Olds the very first one in GM?  Didn't Olds have the very first
V8?

Are you sure about this one, Charley?  I seem to recall readin' that
it's... *Cadillac* which holds both of these distinctions for GM.

Gee, it seems you and I have the same accomplishments within GM assigned
to the same two divisions -- and, no, I don't consider myself a
spokesman for the 'Wreathed' division :)

> I don't recall the sequence of events that well, wasn't Olds around
before > GM, and then was purchased by the company that later became GM?
Wasn't > Chevy the very last one into the company?  (I mean, before Geo,
and Saturn, > and non-returnable cans)

It's no Oldsmobile for sure, but I wouldn't lump Saturn in with the
Geo... (Geo?!?  Is it a Toilet-ota or a Suzuki??  It can't make up its
mind! :) ) I went car-shopping with my sister-in-law earlier this year,
and the Saturns *by far* blew away the others we looked at for
performance, value, and just plain "quality-of-feel".  These included
Toilet-ota products, Nissans, and Honda Civics.  She bought an SL1,
which is the biggest car she's owned (Her auto history includes a coupla
VW bugs, a Karmann Ghia with flower stickers strewn all over , a Toilet
Tercel, and her late Subaru Justy 4wd with that awful gearless tranny).

Just one man's opinion...



Tim (Who Will Do His Best Not to Bash Too Too Much Inside GM) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:39:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Flames are high tonight!!!

> And I think that applies to a lot (if not most) of the Chrysler
products, > which are built in Cananda -- remember, some of their ads
say they're the > "Best (fill in the blank) Car built in North America". >
 > But just to point out a nit, wouldn't 'American' car apply to
anything built > in the U.S., Canada, or Mexico?  Not to mention Brazil,
etc... :)

And besides, please lay off your Canadian brothers in these comparisons,
we're all in this together, you know ...

All of the big three make lots of cars in Canada (sadly Honda does too,
but I imagine those folks are happy for the jobs, nonetheless). GM has a
huge operation: Chevys in Oshawa, Firebirds in Quebec, military vehicles
in London, Ont., as well as lots of trim, transmission and engine
plants.  It is also extremely profitable.  And it is not a comparison to
Mexico or others where these companies pay workers very little to do the
same work as Americans.  GM's Canadian operation (I believe) has
somewhat higher wages and benefits that its American operations and
still pulls a huge profit.

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:05:47 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

In a message dated 96-10-25 09:31:17 EDT, you write:

>
>And don't forget:
>
>PONTIAC
>
>Poor Old Nitwit Thinks It's A Cadillac
>
>

The version's I've heard of that are usually more racist...

DrkSole
 73 Cultass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (got the door)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:14:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Quad 4's and stats etc.

     I noticed a whole bunch of quad-4 stuff in the GM Performance Parts

     catalog.  Might want to check it out.  The catalog should be
available
     at any GM parts dealer.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re:Quad 4's and stats etc.
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/25/96 11:07
AM


Hey Does any body out there know of any performane part stores for
quad 4's beside mantipart.
Ryan


------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:18:35 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

I sed:

> >And don't forget:
> >
> >PONTIAC
> >
> >Poor Old Nitwit Thinks It's A Cadillac
> >
> >

DrkSole sed:
>
> The version's I've heard of that are usually more racist...

Yeah, the first time I heard it, it was more suitable for a Klanman's
ears :) This way is just as humorous, IMHO.



Tim (Who is Non-PC, Non-Racist, Non-Sexist and Non-Chryslerist)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:39:00 -0300
Subject: Thumping gas tank

>From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:48:24 -0300
>Subject: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank
>I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for a
new one will >probably help? >Take the cap off to fuel up and you can
hear a large hisser emanating from the tank. >When I start the >car
with 1/4 tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?) from the
tank. >Never mind the jokes... Joanne Joanne, You didn't mention the
year or model of your car, but your problem may be related to a clogged
tank vent.  My '70 442 has a vent coming off the upper front right
(pass. side) corner of the gas tank.  It consists of rubber house and a
plastic housing with a breathable foam plug in it.  Check to make sure
the foam plug is in place and unobstructed, & that the rubber hose is
not kinked.  Based on the thumping noise you describe, you probably have
 a vacuum being created during use, and the tank is distorting inward
due to the suction.  The thump you hear maybe the tank distorting from
its regular size.  The hissing is the inflow of air as the vacuum is
relieved.  Make sure you get the correct (venting or non-venting) style
of cap for your car. Scott Mullen '70 442

------------------------------

From: Rocket8179@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:59:15 -0300
Subject: Re: GN

Weren't all the Grand Nationals  the Regal style?
The century was a separate model.
The GN was always the same basic body style (Regal) and of course they
were fast.

A little non-olds info:
The Buick Regal T-Type is actually faster than the GN   (13 second 1/4
mile runs) They have the same engine and everything else, but the T-Type
had aluminum wheels.  No Kidding.

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:06:13 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

At 03:18 PM 10/25/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I sed:
>
>> >And don't forget:
>> >
>> >PONTIAC
>> >
>> >Poor Old Nitwit Thinks It's A Cadillac
>> >
>> >
>

And then there's OPEL - Oh, please engine live.
************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:08:34 -0300
Subject: Olds sighting(Grace)

On the show Grace Under Fire, the car is definitely a Pontiac,most
likely a Catalina, and probably a '67. Also saw a '69 Cutlass,blue with
black top,in the movie "Made in America" with Whoppi Goldberg and Ted
Dansen. Look for it during the runaway elephant scene. See ya... Brad
'68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:09:31 -0300
Subject: Re: GN

> A little non-olds info:
> The Buick Regal T-Type is actually faster than the GN   (13 second 1/4
mile > runs) > They have the same engine and everything else, but the
T-Type had aluminum > wheels.  No Kidding.

	I think the T-Type was also the only turbo 6 powered Buick you
couldget a color choice on (GN/GNX were always black)....maybe red or
canarie yellow is worth a few horses  ;)


				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:15:05 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

At 18:18 10/25/1996 +0000, you wrote:

>Tim (Who is Non-PC, Non-Racist, Non-Sexist and Non-Chryslerist)
Churchill >------------- >'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced' > Hey Tim, Have
you thought of 'Mac' for a nickname for the Fleetwood? It would sound
kinda tough like 'Big Red'(Non-Sexist?) and maybe bring back memorys
from the Seventy's and Eighty's music scene. Just a thought..... Brad
'68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:32:46 -0300
Subject: Re: followup - balance

Roger,
And you thought "wouldn't it be nice to have a new set of skins on the
Olds"!

I don't think they will realize someone else balanced their tires.  A
balance can't hurt the tires unless they used a knife :).

Did the rim that is suspected to be bent, wobble or give you problems
with the original tire you replaced?  If not, I doubt the rim is bent.
If there was no wobble with the original tires, the problem is with the
tires or balancing.  New tires won't suddenly show a bearing or ball
joint problem.

It sounds like the tires are bad or the balancer didn't know how to use
the machine.  You might want to have someone else balance the tires.
I've had some dork balance tires with the old weights still on the
rim!!  That must be the way to balance history or something.  I think I
read somewhere that 6oz is the max amount of weight that can be used to
safely balance a passenger car/lt truck tire.

I think you are going to have to take a firm stand that the tires are
the problem.  Don't let them push you around.  All that wobbling is
causing additional stress on the car's drivetrain that you don't need.
Good luck!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------------
Hi all.

I saw the school's mechanic and he says the front end has a little play
but not enough to worry about.  He suspects a defective tire.

Seeing has how the defective tire is from NTW, how do I present my case
against them?  Another joint balanced their tires, something that I
don't think is allowed according to their policies.  The other place
put one of their tires on the rear, but when it was spun balanced, the
tread went from side to side, indicating a bad tire or bent rim.

But rims on the wagon are HD and I haven't been beating on the wagon, so
the driveshaft shouldn't be bent.  There is always the spare tire...

Roger
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:39:24 -0300
Subject: Overdrive w/out an OD trans...was Re: your mail

>      In regards to your choice between a 700R4 and a six speed, I
would >      lean more towards the GM's 4L60, (I think that's the
correct model) it >      was a heavier duty version of the 4 speed
automatic. I remember >      reading about it a few years ago (I was
considering the same thing). >      You could even puchase the harness
to put it in non computer >      controlled cars.  The other option I
considered was a gear that you >      attached between the tranny and
driveshaft, it was in last months >      issue of Popular Hotrodding
and it was far cheaper than a new tranny.

	I've seen these before.  Basically what it is, is an overdrive
unit that attaches to the back of the transmission (kind of like one of
the old manual overdrive trannies...you know, the ones with the
"overdrive" knob under the dash that were popular in the 50s/early 60s).
I think they run in the .70 to .65 gear range.
	It would be pretty cool to add one to any four speed, (esp.
something like a close ratio Muncie) since you would effectively have a
five speed! (Not as cool as having a T-56 Six speed, but still pretty
cool).  I'm also assuming you could put one on an automatic too, which
would be equally cool.

	I seem to remember seeing an add for these things in a hi-perf
catalog (Summit?), and they were selling them for relativly cheap (+/-
$700 if I remember correctly) because the company was going out of
business.  Too bad too, it's a cool idea.

	It might still be worth looking into, though...
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:05:20 -0300
Subject: BB Olds Mileage and Chevy Bashing (long)

My AOL software wasn't properly so this didn't make it yesterday.

BB Olds Mileage:

The "turnpike cruise" options Olds marketed starting in '67 through the
'70-71 SX models were advertised as capable of 20+mpg at turnpike speeds
on radial tires. They used the big block torque tied to a 2.56 gear. I
believe those claims. My '67 with Muncie and temporarily swapped 3.08
gears would get ~20 on radials.  If we had had the 55mph speed limits
before '73 I am sure it would been over that.

There are soooo many factors which effect fuel mileage including running
the right tire pressures!  In theory, two cars of the same weight and
model but with different engines should get pretty close to the same
fuel mileage.  It takes "x" amount of horsepower to move a car through
the air.  If you use only that much horsepower from the engine, i.e. can
keep your foot out of the more powerful engine, the only difference
should be from internal friction.
  And that wouldn't be a bunch.

C*evy bashing:

You're right, they are a GM "sister" division.  I don't have anything
against 'em, really.  But it gets real old that they are the division to
get 99% of the press.  And what does it prove if you can buy the parts
to make performance HP and torque when the "other" folks like us do it
the hard way?
 IMHO it is far more impressive to make an Olds that kicks butt than a
quick C*evy.  So there's some pride here in this group.

I have lost count of the number of times where it has been _assumed_ my
Olds can't get out of it's own way.  And then they loose much more often
than not.
 Back in late '60s-'70s I loved using my basically stock $3,000 '67 442
to beat the C*maro with $10,000 in basic investment plus the AL heads,
plus the Holley double pumper, plus, plus......  Been there, done that.
And yes, beating the street hemi was fun too, more like surprising at
the time. I was lucky, a lousy tuner and driver. But it counts!!

You know, there's a sibling rivalry here too.  It's like you beat your
big brother (or sister) at something.  It feels good.

A big difference with the GM of old versus today was that each division
was allowed some leeway in how they implemented a given platform and
interdivision rivalries were encouraged.  Remember when the Olds 442 was
rated higher every model year in handling?  Considering that the
Tempest/GTO, Skylark/GS and Chevelles were made on the same platform,
that's one example of what I am trying to say.  Add different power
plants and there _are_ differences.  You can't say that about F*rd or
M*Par.  While the name said M*ercury, it was F*rd in every other
respect.  Same with D*odge/P*ymouth/Chrysler.

In the final analysis, it is fun to talk trash about the other GM
divisions. It isn't reserved to C*evy.  My buddy across the street has a
4-speed 67 GTO. He just did a major rebuild to the '68 400 it now has,
the trans, clutch, etc. and he still can't beat my low compression 455,
'67, TH400 442 which also weighs several hundred pounds more.  I had a
ball telling him I could put an OIds BB in there for less than he had in
his 400 and then _maybe_ he could beat me. I tell him I'm just trying to
educate him so he can see the light. :-))

He knows it's just trash talk!  We both smile and swap grins.

It also hurts that the C*evy bunch seems to assume they are unbeatable.
One of the fondest memories of my strip experiences in the late 60's was
when a _bunch_ of guys pooled their resources to build a killer '56
BelAir.  In the eliminator run off I beat him using an advantage in ET
differences. (What's called today a "pro" start, 0.5 sec difference in
start, stage _really_ shallow, leave on his light.)  Beat him, bad.  He
accused me of cheating. (?)
 So I ran a grudge with him again.  Beat him worse.  My wife was near
the starting line and when I blew that '56 C*evy away again, his buddies
literally bowed their heads and walked away silently.  They were
_crushed_!
 Beaten by an OLDSMOBILE!  How embarassing!

There's just something about beating that brother/sister!

It's also great beating current F*rd M*stangs with my 30 year old Olds!

Competition is _good_, excitement is _good_, especially among siblings!
Just after I bought my '65 442, the parts guy at the local dealer showed
me a "Tech Bulletin".  This tongue-in-cheek bulletin described methods
for removing Tiger Hair from the intake and exhaust systems of the 442.
A clear ribbing of the vaunted GTO!  It was funny.  It was fun.

As noted at length in the last week or so, it's TOO BAD OLDS DOESN"T
MAKE A RELATIVELY LOW COST MODEL WITH PIZAZZ ANY MORE!  I _would_
consider buying something which could compete with the firechicken
models, _and_ the offerings of the other manufacturers.  Back in the
musclecar era, a $3,000 "A" body could keep up with and frequently beat
a 'V*tte.  Wouldn't it be great for Olds to build something that could
give the V*pers and 'V*ttes fits??  That's what the 5.slow's and to a
degree the SS/Im*ala do. They are relatively inexpensive and F*rd sure
has sold a bunch of 'em.

Bottom line:  The interdivisional rivalries of the old GM seem to be
gone. But those of us who remember like to try and keep it alive.  Today
there is no excitement, no fun.  GM _needs_ to rekindle some of that,
not build import clones.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385


Bob Handren        OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:17:48 -0300
Subject: Re: I give up!!!

At 08:40 AM 10/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Slowly but surely my 67 Cutlass 330 cu in is dying and I dont know why.
 >The more I drive it the worse its getting.  Each day its driven to
work >its gets lets power, eats more gas, and runs rougher.  I cant
figure it >out.  The motor only has 20k on it!  I'm ready to trash the
thing and >buy a 350 rebuild and bolt all the accessories on it.

First thing to do is get a compression check; you could have a cracked
block, head or piston ring, or even a burnt valve, especially if the
machining was done wrong (and you only have to be off a little bit...).

Second is to check the carb/fuel supply: Is the filter clogged? How is
your carb? Is your air filter dirty? Then check your spark: Are your
points burnt or is your ignition module fried?

>Everything is new on the car or rebuilt.  Timing is perfect.  My
preload >might need a little adjustment but I cant believe that that
would >contribute to the problem.  Any ideas?

If your pushrods are bent, or your lifters are chewing up your cam, or
your springs have little to no seat pressure, then you'll lose power.

>From the brief description you give, I'd first suspect a fuel or
ignition problem; you're obviously not burning everything your pouring
into that motor, so start with those systems first. But definitely get a
compression check to rule out the motor itself.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:17:54 -0300
Subject: "tic-toc-tac" (was Re: Misc 68 W-30)

At 09:57 AM 10/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>What did Craig Dobbins mean by "tic-toc-tac"?

Olds' way of fitting a clock and a tachometer in the same space; imagine
if you will a small clock in a large pod, where the outer rim of the pod
beyond the clock is marked like a tachometer, and an itsy-bitsy needle
is visible in that area as it goes up and down with the engine revs.

Not very readable, even when you are staring right at it without the car
moving. I can't imagine anyone relying on it to avoid revving past
six-grand while powershifting their W-30, when things are happening
*VERY* quickly!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:17:44 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

At 08:44 AM 10/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Bob:
>Could you describe the way the vacuum canister is connected
>to the vacuum advance and any adjustments/settings.

Well, the vacuum canister *IS* the vacuum advance unit; the adjustable
Crane unit replaces the stocker. This takes all of about 10 minutes to
install, and an hour to fine-tune. The kit also includes a centrifugal
advance spring kit, and a vacuum-advance limiting plate, so that you can
make the following adjustments:

* Quicker mechanical advance (it doesn't allow you to make it come in
slower or later than stock, nor does it allow you to change the total
amount of vacuum advance) * Higher or lower level of vacuum at which
advance comes in * Less total vacuum advance (you can't get more vacuum
advance than stock, or at least more than the Crane vacuum advance unit
has, which may be more than the stock unit, I didn't really compare)

>Would this improve pinging on a computerized carb?

Sure, you could make it ping as much as you want! ;)

But seriously folks, the type of carb doesn't make any difference; on
the other hand, if the advance on your distributor is
computer-controlled, then you won't have a vacuum advance unit at all,
and couldn't replace it with one from Crane. For that, you'd be able to
do the same thing by modifying the spark maps in the ECM. Don't think
that's quite as simple as swapping the vacuum unit, but hey, I don't
know.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:17:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

At 01:04 PM 10/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Many of you probably bend your own break or fuel lines...
[snip]
>larger radius bends for hard fuel lines or other steel, aluminum, or
copper >tubing.  One way to do this is to carefully bend the tubing in
the groove >of a V - belt pulley.  You probably have several sizes in
your garage

And if you need a bend smaller than the radius your bender gives you,
you can decrease the radius of a bend by bending it around the neck of a
2-liter soda bottle, right up by the cap. This works best on 3/16" brake
line, of course; wouldn't want to do it on 5/8" fuel line! Just don't
bend the line as far over, the first time on your tubing bender, as you
want the final bend to be.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:28:03 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

Brad Baker wrote:
>
> Hey Tim, Have you thought of 'Mac' for a nickname for the Fleetwood?

HA!  Fleetwood Mac!  Arf-arf!  I LIKE it!
Take a picture of it in front of some bare trees.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:52:00 -0300
Subject: Four-play

>From: "Jeff" <jev114@email.psu.edu>
>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:16:04 -0300
>Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

>Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
>will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
>!!! some people

Way to go, Jeff!  I bet you could start a brawl at the Vatican.  Being a
 four-speed man, I tend to agree with you.  Ottomatics is for your
mommy's car.  Real motor heads have big left legs! Scott Mullen '70 442
w/ 4 speed P.S.  It's about time somebody spiced things up a bit.  I
haven't had this good of a chuckle since the headers vs. manifolds
debates.  All that crying to Heidi (mine included) was getting a little
dull.  You can own a kick butt Olds without stepping on the Olds
dealer's lot.  Besides, when your 1996 Au-snore-a is twenty years old,
you won't be able to get parts for them, the invoices will have been
thrown out 3 days after the car was shipped, GM will still be making
Hi-po heads for 1960's vintage Chevy engines and none for any Olds
built after 2016, etc., etc.........  I certainly hope Heidi can prove
me wrong and produce the invoice for my car.

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:53:00 -0300
Subject: Leaking Orifice Plugs

>I learned this trick from HP's Rochester Carburetors book, It is
>definetly worth picking up if you have never been inside of a Q-jet.


>Steve
>71 Cutlass S 455
>93 Mustang LX 5.0

Steve,
Been there, done that, it worked for me too!  Can you please dig out
your copy and find out the part number for the high volume needle and
seat that is detailed in the book?  I think it is a Buick part.  I
bought one about 7 years ago when I first rebuilt my carb, and now it
is getting a little tired.  My copy of the book went into the black
hole of loaned reading material.  Help please! Scott Mullen '70 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:43:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 vs. 6-speed

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> Just understand that this list is for the exchange of information,
> and people need all kinds of information about all kinds of things,
> worthless or not.  And that's _my_ opinion.

And mine.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:52:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Four-play

R Mullen wrote:
>
> Real motor heads have big left legs!

...and the need to yank on something.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:07:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Four-play

     I just gotta pipe up and say that I can shift my 4-speed up and
down
     anytime I want, I have manual control, and I can even use it as
sort
     of a 3-stick drag racing slap-shifter.  Or I can leave it in OD
when
     I'm feeling like I want the car to take care of itself!  With no
     torque converter slip I get just as good of gas mileage as any
manual.

     What is it?  The lightning rods in my '84 Hurst/Olds.  Best of both

     worlds, so there!

     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Four-play Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/25/96 2:52 PM

>Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
>will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
>!!! some people

Way to go, Jeff!  I bet you could start a brawl at the Vatican.  Being a
 four-speed man, I tend to agree with you.  Ottomatics is for your
mommy's car.  Real motor heads have big left legs! Scott Mullen '70 442
w/ 4 speed

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:50:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Overdrive w/out an OD trans...was Re: your mail

yes, actually I remember seeing an article on a late model vette that
had this overdrive unit on it, the company was called "Gear vendors" I
believe or maybe that was the distributor?? It was pretty neat though
cause the owner wired this unit into a highbeam switch on the floor..!!

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Scott R Clark wrote:

>
> >      In regards to your choice between a 700R4 and a six speed, I
would > >      lean more towards the GM's 4L60, (I think that's the
correct model) it > >      was a heavier duty version of the 4 speed
automatic. I remember > >      reading about it a few years ago (I was
considering the same thing). > >      You could even puchase the
harness to put it in non computer > >      controlled cars.  The other
option I considered was a gear that you > >      attached between the
tranny and driveshaft, it was in last months > >      issue of Popular
Hotrodding and it was far cheaper than a new tranny. > > 	I've seen
these before.  Basically what it is, is an overdrive > unit that
attaches to the back of the transmission (kind of like one of > the old
manual overdrive trannies...you know, the ones with the > "overdrive"
knob under the dash that were popular in the 50s/early 60s). > I think
they run in the .70 to .65 gear range. > 	It would be pretty cool to add
one to any four speed, (esp. > something like a close ratio Muncie)
since you would effectively have a > five speed! (Not as cool as having
a T-56 Six speed, but still pretty > cool).  I'm also assuming you could
put one on an automatic too, which > would be equally cool. > > 	I
seem to remember seeing an add for these things in a hi-perf > catalog
(Summit?), and they were selling them for relativly cheap (+/- > $700 if
I remember correctly) because the company was going out of > business.
Too bad too, it's a cool idea. > > 	It might still be worth looking
into, though... > 	 > 				Scott > 
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 > > > >
 > >

------------------------------

From: Terrill Yuhas <tyuhas@mail.arl.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:05:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

> I don't think anyone makes an olds intake manifold with bosses on the
intake > into which injectors could be mounted. From what I've read in
Ch*vy craft, the

I'm trying to verify this but when I was looking at engine availability
for mid 70's to early 80's Cadillacs in a Chilton's big book, there was
listed an Olds EFI engine.  It's not a diesel but so far that is about
all I can find about it.  If nothing else, this would be great material
to build upon.

I'll post more if I can find out more.

Terrill

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 20:20:47 -0300
Subject: Re: followup - balance

Hi all.

NTW was wonderful.  They rebalanced all tires at no charge, even though
I only bought 2 tires there.

One of the Firestones through a belt and had a bump in it.  I am now on
a full size spare and will need to replace the Firestone, since it was
purchased in July still under warranty.  If I have problems, I will
take appropriate legal actions.

They said one rim was a little bent, but not enough to do anything
noticeable.

My wagon no longer rides like a washing machine on unbalanced spin
cycle!

NTW said one bearing is questionable, but not ball joints.

The jerks at Sunoco had a counte rbalance on one tire; a weight directly
 across from another weight.  Pinheads!

Roger

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:28:55 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Enthusiast booklet

I'd be interested.  My e-mail address is listed below.  I think I like
Olds Heidi better (no offense)!

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:29:01 -0300
Subject: RE: Ok, so what's the MPG on a 350 Cutlass

My '72 wagon gets 10 even with the Q-jet 4bbl on the 350 (BUT its got
210,000 & needs a new distributor).  You should be able to pull down at
least 15 - I did with my 330 w/ a Holley 600 & highrise.

Good luck - hey at least parts are cheap & plentiful for them.

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:29:02 -0300
Subject: RE: Mooring status

Good heavans - I had a '67 C/S convert & it wasnt that bad!!  What did
you do to her?  If your Cutlass qualifies for mooring status - what must
my Vista Cruiser qualify for?!

I love taking it to my local (hand only) car wash - it takes the poor
little guy 4 times forward & back to get it into the  place (& 3 to get
it out at the other end).

I measure my 10 mpg by the day - I get 3.25 days outta a tank.....

Happy Oldsmobiling -
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:29:04 -0300
Subject: Re:Help please

The one advertised is $2500.00 and looks to be bone stock - etc.  I'm
gonna go back through my So Cal chapter newsletters & also the Journey
with Olds mags & photocopy all I come across for you.  Got your snail
mail address from you Olds Heidi post.

Will get off to you next week what I can find.

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:33:17 -0300
Subject: Re: 442

In a message dated 96-10-24 22:03:36 EDT, you write:

<< Hello,

 	It's not even winter here yet and I'm already making plans of things
to do with my 442 next spring.  I would like to get it repainted (paint
on back half of car is faded and front had been repainted before I got
the car).  I was wondering if it would be reasonable to have the gold
stripes and 442 stickers painted or pinstriped on and clearcoated or if
I should go original (can`t get stickers for the sides).  Does any one
know a rough figure for the difference in cost between the two?

 Thanks,
 Steve
  >>

Hi Steve, I suggest to paint the stripes and use basecoat/clearcoat.  I
just painted my 72 W-30 and used base w/clear.  I put on three coats of
the base color first and then two coats clear then waited two days and
painted the stripes on and added five coats of clear.  The paint job
came out excellant and you can not feel the stripes so you get a smooth
finish.  I used Dupli- color paints instead of PPG.  The Dupont paint
seems to apply more evenly and easier.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:07:15 -0300
Subject: Some GM history (was: Flames are high tonight!!!)

> > Wasn't Olds the very first one in GM?  Didn't Olds have the very
first V8? > > Are you sure about this one, Charley?  I seem to recall
readin' that it's... > *Cadillac* which holds both of these distinctions
for GM. > > Gee, it seems you and I have the same accomplishments
within GM assigned > to the same two divisions -- and, no, I don't
consider myself a spokesman > for the 'Wreathed' division :)

General Motors was founded in New York on September 16, 1908, and mainly
consisted of Buick Motor Company (which had been purchased and
reorganized by Durant-Dort in 1904).  Then, Durant acquired Oldsmobile.
The following year, after several failed attempts, a deal with Cadillac
was made - imagine a company, earning almost 2 million a year, that was
purchased for a mere 4.5 million!  I guess Buick wins out as the 'first'
with GM (and I don't even own one!) <g>.

Although a few V8's were made from as early as 1903, these early
attempts are considered experimental, suffering from insufficient
research and development.  The first serious attempt at a commercially
viable V8 was by De Dion around 1910.  Cadillac examined this design as
well as the Hall-Scott aero engine, and released their vastly superior
engine in 1914. Cadillac is generally regarded as having the first
successful production V8 engine.  They were also the first to introduce
an inherently balanced V8 (quartered crankshaft with integral
counterweights vs. a flat 4 cylinder crank).  Curiously, the 'modern'
Ferrari F355 uses a 180 degree crankshaft!

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "bill" <bill281@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:08:17 -0300
Subject: id for motor

I have a 1982 cutlass with a olds motor .I dont know  what motor is in
it. It is a pre 80s motor . on the back by the distributor i found yhe
numbers 290 with a big S. Looking at the front of the motor to right of
the oil fill the numbers read 395558 then a big 2 . Then on the oil fill
tube there are the numbers 4380305. HELP can you tell me what this motor
is. thanks.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:40:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Terrill Yuhas wrote:
> I'm trying to verify this but when I was looking at engine
availability > for mid 70's to early 80's Cadillacs in a Chilton's big
book, there was > listed an Olds EFI engine.  It's not a diesel but so
far that is about > all I can find about it.  If nothing else, this
would be great material to > build upon.

This was discussed here a while back - I think the engine is a 350 Olds
used in the early Cadillac Seville. These were made with an early fuel
injection system. Whether the manifold is appropriate for port FI or if
it was just a throttle-body setup I don't recall.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:41:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello address?

Well, It just so happens that Katanasan Has the answer:

Mondello Performance Products, Inc.
8166 Orion Blvd
Van Nuys, Ca. 91406
818-994-6910

The booklet that I have is for a GM 350 Diesel Covesion Kit and is
fairly old. Hope the address is still current.


Katana72       It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!!
Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:43:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

> I'm trying to verify this but when I was looking at engine
availability > for mid 70's to early 80's Cadillacs in a Chilton's big
book, there was > listed an Olds EFI engine.  It's not a diesel but so
far that is about > all I can find about it.  If nothing else, this
would be great material to > build upon.

The "Cadillac" version of the Olds 350 was used in '75.5 to '79
Sevilles, '79 Eldorados, and California emissions equipped 1980 Sevilles
and Eldorados.  It had a port injected cast-iron intake manifold.  The
electronically controlled, 2-phase Bendix fuel injection system provided
180bhp @ 4400rpm, and 275lb-ft @ 2000rpm, slightly more than the
carbureted version, mainly due to cooler manifolding.  It was reported
that this engine was able to meet emissions standards without a
catalytic converter, but was so equipped nonetheless!

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:57:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds sighting(Grace)

At 05:08 PM 10/25/96 -0300, Brad Baker wrote:
>On the show Grace Under Fire, the car is definitely a Pontiac,most
likely a >Catalina, and probably a '67.

>Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

I watched the opening of the show, just to see what if I thought I saw
was there.  The very opening shot shows the front end of a Pontiac, no
doubt about it.  But, later in the opening, there are several furtive
shots of the back of a car that has too many letters in the marque to be
Pontiac, but the shots were so fast in and out and the camera work was
intentionally unsteady.  I'm considering taping the opening and
replaying it in slo-mo next week.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:57:11 -0300
Subject: Re: I give up!!!

Just to make certain the bases are covered, should some of the other
replies you received not pan out, check the rotor and distributor cap.

Some rotors have poor riveting done and the contacts get loose
prematurely. If so, get a new one (I've always preferred Blue Streak).

Distributor caps sometimes are sometimes molded poorly and develop
hairline cracks that are hard to see, but cause poor running.  The poor
molding could be from any number of factors, including stresses during
forming, cooling too fast, a bad resin mix, getting knocked around
before packaging...

Also, condensor.  Check the points; if they're burnt, replace both
points and condensor.

At 09:40 AM 10/25/96 -0300, John L. Berenyi wrote:
>Slowly but surely my 67 Cutlass 330 cu in is dying and I dont know why.
 >The more I drive it the worse its getting.  Each day its driven to
work >its gets lets power, eats more gas, and runs rougher.  I cant
figure it >out.  The motor only has 20k on it!  I'm ready to trash the
thing and >buy a 350 rebuild and bolt all the accessories on it. >
>Everything is new on the car or rebuilt.  Timing is perfect.  My
preload >might need a little adjustment but I cant believe that that
would >contribute to the problem.  Any ideas? > >John


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:46:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Terrill Yuhas wrote:
> > I'm trying to verify this but when I was looking at engine
availability > > for mid 70's to early 80's Cadillacs in a Chilton's big
book, there was > > listed an Olds EFI engine.  It's not a diesel but so
far that is about > > all I can find about it.  If nothing else, this
would be great material to > > build upon. > > This was discussed here
a while back - I think the engine is a 350 Olds > used in the early
Cadillac Seville. These were made with an early fuel > injection
system. Whether the manifold is appropriate for port FI or if > it was
just a throttle-body setup I don't recall.

Port injection.  I have the complete manifold in my shed, with
injectors, throttle body, but no "brain" (harness cut).  Would make a
great project for a small block... Make me an offer I can't refuse! :)

- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services
Department http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod
Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #343
********************************
 
