To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/09/96 06:56:32 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #359


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 9 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 359


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 20:35:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 1947 Olds

Hello, all.

I had a look at the 47 Olds today. The body is absolutely rustless. It
had been stored in a garage and brought out only for parades and such.
The headliner needs to be replaced and the passenger side window has a
crack in it. The door panels and front seat have been reupholstered and
the back needs it. The bumpers are removed because the owner was going
to have them re-chromed but never got around to it. They are just lying
around and are in good condition. The engine runs fine and does not use
any oil. So: is it worth $2800? It has a six-volt electrical system.
Should I convert it to 12 volt (if I get it)? Jeers, applause, and
opinions welcome.

chuck
47 Olds (maybe)
68 Olds 98
72 Olds 98
81 Cutlass (if the deal goes through; let you know later)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 20:33:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Chuck Morgan on the list? (Olds in CC)

On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, buehner wrote:

>      Dec's Car Craft has an Olds in it!!!  Reader's rides, p.69.  All
looks > great, until the line of "Chevy 350 powerred...) but at least
there's an
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Olds in there!

Oh, man.... :(

Why doesn't this surprise me? Sheesh...


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Jan Malone <chickey1@fidnet.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 21:23:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 1947 Olds

Chuck Rowe wrote:
>
> This ad appeared in a local trader:
>
>         For Sale: 1947 Olds. Runs real good. Second owner. All
original. > Spare         came with car when new. All for $2,800. > >
Question: Is this a good deal? Is it worth considering? Opinions,
please. As owners of a 47 olds I would say it sounds like a good deal.
but then the question is alwayws condition. How much work does it need.
Parts are hard to find and expensive if found. what style is it? miles?
 jan and Larry Malone   chickey1@fidnet.com

------------------------------

From: Jan Malone <chickey1@fidnet.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 21:30:10 -0400
Subject: Re: 1947 Olds

Chuck Rowe wrote:
>
> Hello, all.
>
> I had a look at the 47 Olds today. The body is absolutely rustless. It
had > been stored in a garage and brought out only for parades and such.
The > headliner needs to be replaced and the passenger side window has a
crack in > it. The door panels and front seat have been reupholstered
and the back > needs it. The bumpers are removed because the owner was
going to have them > re-chromed but never got around to it. They are
just lying around and are in > good condition. The engine runs fine and
does not use any oil. So: is it > worth $2800? It has a six-volt
electrical system. Should I convert it to 12 > volt (if I get it)?
Jeers, applause, and opinions welcome. > > chuck > 47 Olds (maybe) > 68
Olds 98 > 72 Olds 98 > 81 Cutlass (if the deal goes through; let you
know later)I wouldnt change the electrical system. Of course we are real
original buffs. Sounds like you found a nice car. Let us know if you
get it. And if we can be of any help.did you find out what series it
is?
  Jan and Larry Malone
47 olds 66 series
71 cutlass conv.

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:24:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge

Michael Calvo wrote:
>
>
>      Help! I filled my tank and now the gauge is stuck at full. A
friend >      tested the gauge and said it was the sending unit. Does
anyone know of >      someone who can rebuild these things? I know I can
send it to Year One >      but who do they send it to? (let's cut out
the middle man ). Also the >      car in question is a '70 442 W30 4spd
would the sending unit from a >      '68 Cutlass Supreme be any
different? > >      -Michael Calvo >      mcalvo@hologic.com >

If you just put in a full tank of gas the float is probably stuck in the
 up position.  I used to have a Vega that did that every time I filled
it up.  I'd just swerve back and forth a few times and it would go back
 down.  I'd remove the sending unit and make a few "adjustments" to
make sure it does not hang up anymore.

  George Torch
 62 Dynamic 88
 66 Corvair Monza
 90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:47:09 -0400
Subject: RE: suspension airbag question

>Gregg,
>
>Wide tires in winter are not a good idea.  The weight of the car is
>distributed over a larger tire patch.  This will give you less
traction. I didn't know big tires were bad for the winter but it makes
sense.  Kinda like snowshoes, you stay on top of the snow and don't sink
to the ground where there's traction.  As you probably allready read in
a follow up I posted, I didn't say exactly what I meant.  I needed tires
with tread on them because winter was coming.  My old ones were getting
scary just driving in a light drizzle.  The ass would break loose when I
kicked it into passing gear if the pavement was damp. My dad sprung for
some 235/70R15 General tires and told me I was SOL if I shredded them
and didn't have money to buy my own.

>I recall an article where they droppped a Chevy Malibu wagon.  They
replaced >the coils with shorter but higher psi ones, put in Bill-Stein
shocks and put >airbags in the rear.  I think a rear sway bar was
added.  Don't forget the fat >tires too.  I've been considering doing
the same to my Cutlass Cruiser for >some time now, but will have the
means next year. Well If I get airbags and a sway bar in the car before
you do I'll let you know how well they work.  I've got some gas-charged
heavy duty Monroe shocks on the car righ now...not too expensive.  The
fronts were $17.00ea and ther rears were something like $20-$30ea.  Nice
ride and firmer than stock.  You can put the shocks on yourself if you
have at least average mechanical capability.  Not difficult at all on an
Olds wagon.  Not nearly as bad as struts either, I've worked on thoes
too... big pain.  Right now I'm gonna stick with the springs I have.  I
like the ride and I'm scared to pay the money for new springs because
i'm afraid I won't like the ride after I go through the expense and
trouble to put them in.

>Are you parking in "the cage?"
Nope.  The cage is a parking lot, two acres at least, for the resident
students, if you live in the dorms you have to park there.  I commuted
last year and I live in an apartment this year.  I take the bus or park
in the dreaded commuter lots.  It seems like some idiot decided there
only need be 1 commuter space for every 2  commuters, so finding a spot
can get hairy. Most of us have taken up the "stalking" method of getting
a space.  We follow someone walking to their car and take their space as
soon as they leave, it's the only way to get a spot.  I have honestly
taken up to 20 minuits to park the car.  Don't get me started on parking
at tech.

Well anyway, thanks for the info and talk to ya later.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:32:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 1947 Olds

Chuck Rowe wrote:
>
> Hello, all.
>
> I had a look at the 47 Olds today. The body is absolutely rustless. It
had > been stored in a garage and brought out only for parades and such.
The > headliner needs to be replaced and the passenger side window has a
crack in > it. The door panels and front seat have been reupholstered
and the back > needs it. The bumpers are removed because the owner was
going to have them > re-chromed but never got around to it. They are
just lying around and are in > good condition. The engine runs fine and
does not use any oil. So: is it > worth $2800? It has a six-volt
electrical system. Should I convert it to 12 > volt (if I get it)?
Jeers, applause, and opinions welcome. > > chuck > 47 Olds (maybe) > 68
Olds 98 > 72 Olds 98 > 81 Cutlass (if the deal goes through; let you
know later)

  If that car was in my area I'd buy it out from under you :)
Go for it, sounds like a steal.
I'd also keep it 6 volt.  As long as the batteries are still available
and your not using it as a daily driver there is no sence in butchering
an original car.  I still feel guilty about replacing the generator with
 an alternator in my 62.

 George Torch
 1962 Dynamic 88
 1966 Corvair Monza
 1990 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: "Loyd Bonecutter" <loydb@enteract.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 22:01:53 -0400
Subject: 7A small block manifolds on 5A heads

As Mondello's Technical manual suguests have plans to replace the 7A
heads on my 1986 307 cid engine, with 5A heads from an 85 or earlier
307.

1. Am wondering since the catalogs for aftermarket intake manifolds and
headers suguest 5A heads must be used, will the stock 7A intake and
exhaust manifolds bolt to the 5A heads ?

2. What would be the least restrictive stock small block exhaust
manifolds for a G body to obtain, since the welded steel ones from 86
are very restrictive after the cross over pipe joins the passenger side
manifold?

3. Will exhaust manifolds from a big block fit the engine ?

4. To get the compression ratio in the area of 8.7:1, without changing
pistons, will milling the 5A - 67 cc heads 0.072 inches to get about 55
cc's (1 cc is about 0.006 inches) make these heads unreliable?

5. Going to 52 cc will give about 9:1 CR but requires 0.090 inches
milled which I understand would produce unreliable heads due to the lack
of material and potential warping !

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:14:08 -0400
Subject: whoops

Sorry about that last post I made to the list.  I messed up the adress
and sent it to the list instead of direcly to Roger.  I didn't mean to
post a message on the list that shoulda been on private e-mail. Just
apolgising for the little goof. Greg Pruett

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 21:26:02 -0400
Subject: Olds List Member Registry Update

Hello fellow Olds'fanatics,

I've been updating the Registry/Contact List (just what have we decided
to call this thing anyway) and think that I've got it looking pretty
good.  It is a lot more like the Toronado Registry page now, but it's
still got a few of my personal "olds" touches.  I've also made a main
page that has links to some of the major Olds sites.  The main page is
at:

http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html

>From there, there is a link to both the addition form, and also the
Registry itself.  Hey! Now you only have one site name to remember for
it! The "State" section of the Registry doesn't work yet, but I'm
working on it. Also, we've only got 42 out of 200'n something members
who've filled out the form!  The Toro-List has got probably 85 to 90
percent of their members in their Registry!  We're falling far behind
y'all!  I'd think that particularly some of the more active people on
the list would've filled it out.  I've gotten nothing from you Bryce or
Greg B.  Come on now, this thing only takes about a minute or two to
fill out! Again, the form is at :

http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html

Or there is a link to it from both the Registry, and the main page
mentioned above.  Check out my changes to the Registry and send me
feedback.  Feedback is good!  Feedback is our friend!  Just be sure to
send these to my personal address instead of the list at large.  We
don't want to swamp everybody-- just me.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 22:32:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Body Style Plate

In a message dated 96-11-07 23:22:42 EST, you write:

>  BTW, does anyone know what color regal mist is?  Is it
>  a shade of red?  The car was repainted light blue a very long time
ago and >  since it needs to be repainted I want to go back to its
original color. >

Yes, it's a dark red metallic color.  Olds used to call this color
Garnet Red.  They also had Holiday Red in '63.  That is a bright,
fire-engine red color.  Bet that car looks pretty attractive in light
blue with a red interior!

Paul

------------------------------

From: "bemet" <bemet@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 22:56:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Brothers Automotive Web Site

Just curious what kind of complaints you've heard.

- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: Oldsmobile <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Brothers Automotive Web Site
> Date: Friday, November 08, 1996 10:51 AM
>
>
> Although I have heard of some less-than-impressed customers,
nevertheless

> Brothers Automotive now has a web site that includes their catalog and
 > prices. > > http://www.thehost.com/brothers > > No endorsement
implied either way, just FYI. > > Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > > >

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:43:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Body Style Plate

At 10:32 PM 11/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Yes, it's a dark red metallic color.  Olds used to call this color
Garnet >Red.  They also had Holiday Red in '63.  That is a bright,
fire-engine red >color.  Bet that car looks pretty attractive in light
blue with a red >interior! > >Paul >

I bet it used to look great :(  The light blue paint is so faded and
chipped at this point that it really doesn't look good at all.  The only
clue that I had as to the regal mist being a shade of red is that its
showing under the blue paint in many spots.  One of the previous owners
also unsuccessfully tried to redo the interior after painting the car
blue, so the interior has a red dash, red door panels, blue seats and
gray carpeting.  In the very near future I'm hoping to get the interior
to its original all red color, and the exterior back to the regal mist
color.

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:47:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

I have the 'Factory Assembly Manual' for 1968.  I believe I got it from
Brothers.  It is a photocopy and not a very good one at that.  It is
missing a lot of pages, and some are not readable.

However, that guy at the Quad States meet was supposed to send me a copy
 of his.  His had lots of stuff that was missing from mine, such as the
 blue print for the 68 verticle stripe.  I gave you a copy of that
page, remember?  Don't guess I ever see it now, since it has been a
while.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:38:08 -0400
Subject: Chevy vs Olds

Lately I've been hearing a lot of anti-Chevy sentiment.  I find this
interesting since the feelings are almost as strong as the anti-Ford
ones that I read...

I just wonder what some of you 80's Cutlass owners in the US would've
thought if the General had decided to dump 267/305 Chevy small-blocks in
your cars as they so graciously did to us in Canada.  In fact, for the
majority of Cutlasses/Regals/Grand Prixs/Monte Carlos in Canada with
v/8's, they will be of the Chevy small block variety.

I know that the (80's RWD)US Cutlases had 307's for the most part, and
Monte Carlos had 305's, but what about the Regals and Grand Prixs?  Just
curious!

I do agree, however, that the small-block Olds generally seems to have
greater longevity.  In fact, I often wish that I had a 307 instead.  But
the Chevy small-blocks are not that far behind... After all, they are
both GM!

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything here...  Just making a few
comments and observations since my 2 Cutlasses are Chevy powered... and
I had no choice!

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

81 Cutlass Supreme Brougham (267 Chevy - from the factory)
86 Cutlass Supreme          (305 Chevy - again from the factory)

My plan someday is to swap a larger engine ito the 81... Maybe that will
be an Olds 403 if I can find one.  If not, I may have better luck
finding a Chevy 400 (I know I know).

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 18:56:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge

At 17:50 11/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     Help! I filled my tank and now the gauge is stuck at full. A
friend >     tested the gauge and said it was the sending unit. Does
anyone know of >     someone who can rebuild these things? I know I can
send it to Year One >     but who do they send it to? (let's cut out
the middle man ). Also the >     car in question is a '70 442 W30 4spd
would the sending unit from a >     '68 Cutlass Supreme be any
different? > >     -Michael Calvo >     mcalvo@hologic.com

  The first thing that you want to check, especially with this
condition, is that there  is a good _ground_.  The sending units are the
same.  Clean all electrical connections. Usually exterior connections
are the culprit in these cases. If it was the dash guage that was
tested, it only reads the signal that is sent.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:26:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

Darren,
An assembly manual for your car is a wonderful thing to have. It shows
pictures of how everything on your particular model goes together. I'm
doing a frame off on a car that I took completely apart over a year
ago. If I didn't have the assembly manual my job would have been much
harder. I recommend buying one. Brothers probably charges more for one
than say "Trajech" that advertises in Hemmings. Brothers did have a
boot leg copy of the 72 assembly manual, but that was before someone
started printing them for sale. They don't have anything different than
what everybody else has.

I have a 68 shop manual for sale, and I think I might also have the
Fisher Body manual for that year. If you're interested, please Email me
at my address.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:27:53 -0400
Subject: Trunk releases

> From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:58:27 -0400
> Subject: Remote Trunk Release
>
> This was a moderately rare option on the big olds, don't know about
the a > bodies. From probably 62 or 63 on, in the big cars there was a
plastic vacuum > switch covered by a chrome bezel in glove box. The
switch has two > connections:1) the vacuum input line coming from a
vacuum reserior on the > engine side of the firewall. 2) Vacuum output
line running to the remote > lock opening device attached to the trunk
lock. Push the button, vaccum is > supplied to the trunk > vacuum
diaphragm, presto open trunk.

I'm not sure when they started, but my '61 has this option.  Kinda nice
too.  I can keep the car unlocked, but still have my trunk secure as
long
as I leave the glovebox locked.  On mine, their is a metal T-handle
which I pull, you hear a gentle "hisssss", and the trunk comes up.
- --
=====================================================================
Jeffrey W. King (N5PNU)     Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
=====================================================================

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:30:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Rights vs Obligations

>> In FL, homeowners associations are very powerful.  As described to me
 >> by an attorney they are like a small municipality able to pass
rules >> and collect taxes in the form of dues.

>Yeah, up to a point.  The difficulty with such associations, since they
 >are not a government entity, they are not subject to Sunshine laws.
So >they can get away with a lot of stuff if they really want to. >-
-- which is troubling to me.

Well Mike, that problem is pretty much the fault of the Florida
Legislature according to our association attorney.  According to our
documents, which are about 6 years old and in compliance with current
law, it takes _80%_ of the homeowners to change the CC&R's.  Not just
tough, it's impossible!  The associations around here can't even get a
quorum at annual meetings and that's only 30% for the second meeting
(because the 50% wasn't met at the first one).  Not only is there no
Sunshine equivalent, the damn things are as good as cast in stone.

Like I said, if you buy into a homeowner association controlled
neighborhood it would be pretty sad if you didn't read the restrictions
first.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:30:32 -0400
Subject: Delco-Remy Voltage Regulator

Dave Paulison Wrote:

>>Hah!  I found an original Delco/Remy voltage regulator on a Cutlass in
the junkyard.  Cool!  Now I just have to clean up the cover, repaint it,
and put the cover on my voltage regulator!  Then I'll have that
"original" looking voltage regulator.  Neat.<<

- - --
>>Dave Paulison                  <<

Dave:

Good luck.  Been there, done that.  Then found out the screw holes were
different on the covers.  Bummer.  I hope you fare better than I did.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:49:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Delco-Remy Voltage Regulator

On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> Dave Paulison Wrote:
> >>Hah!  I found an original Delco/Remy voltage regulator on a Cutlass
in the > junkyard.  Cool!  Now I just have to clean up the cover,
repaint it, and put > the cover on my voltage regulator!  Then I'll have
that "original" looking > voltage regulator.  Neat.<< > > Good luck.
Been there, done that.  Then found out the screw holes were > different
on the covers.  Bummer.  I hope you fare better than I did.

Yeah, tell me about it. I have 2 original style Delco-Remy regulator
covers here, neither of which will fit the aftermarket regulator.  I
hear that a new Delco regulator will take these covers but I have never
tried it.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 04:44:04 -0400
Subject: Newer Model Build Sheets

All this build sheet talk has me wondering about a build sheet for my
'86 442.  Were they still in use for later models or had they been
reduced to that lovely trunk lid mounted sticker by then?

- ---M
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- MMayer@InterAccess.Com                 | Matt Mayer VM: (800)
481-1323 		       | "Well, that was interesting......"

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:53:36 -0400
Subject: Re: motor i.d.

At 05:01 PM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Can any of you gurus decipher the following number that I was finally
able >to obtain from the motor in my 72 Cutlass ragtop. The number on
the engine >reads 38 120603. Does the eight mean it is out of a '68?,
78?, or possibly >'88. I know the engine has been replaced and I want to
find if it may >be a better performance engine over the original (which
I have).  Also there >is a 5 on the heads by the numer 1 plug.  The
number on top of the timing >chain reads 395558 2.  Any info regarding
the specs/performance of this >engine compared to what should have
originally been in it would be much >appreciated as this will be a big
influence as to whether I will leave it >or spend the $$$ and rebuild
the original to put back in it.  The vin on >my car is 3J67K2M121747.
Please let me know if these numbers mean sense, >or if I should be
looking elsewhere.

OK, first the 350 in there now is a '68 version (the block number are
the same from '68-'72, but the second digit means '68, which is
confirmed by the #5 heads on there, which are also from a '68. Good
motor, likely a high-compression (well, 10.25 nominal, probably closer
to 9.5 actual compression ratio) engine. If anything, the hardened
exhaust seats on the #7a heads from your '72 350 might be a better
choice for that motor (compression will remain the same, since they
reduced compression by changing the pistons, not the size of the
combustion chamber in the heads), but unless the valves are currently
burnt, or you're spending all day over 4000rpm, I wouldn't sweat it.

Here is how your VIN breaks down:
3=Oldsmobile
J=Cutlass Supreme
67=2-door convertible
K=180hp (net) 350 4-bbl, single exhaust
2=1972
M=Lansing, Michigan
121747=production number

One note about production numbers in the VINs: though these were
sequential numbers assigned as cars were built, since the same plant
would produce A-body cars for other divisions (Chevelle, Skylark,
Tempest, etc), this just means that your car is the 121,747th _car_
built at that plant, not necessarily the 121,747th Cutlass Supreme
convertible, or even Cutlass, built that year. Heck, it could have been
the first Cutlass Supreme convertible built that year, begun right after
they finished building 121,746 4-door, 6-cyl. Malibus... (ugh! perish
the thought!).

>While I am occupying bandwidth and your attention I have a similiar
>request for you gurus out there regarding Fisher body tags, i.e. Paul,
I think. >Here is the info from the body tag: > >ST72 34267LAN249049 >TR
970  65 B >09D A65

The "ST" and "TR" are on all the data plates; no special significance
there.

On the first line,
72=1972
342=Cutlass Supreme
67=2-door convertible (see above)
LAN=Lansing, MI
249049=unit number (diff. from production number)

On the second line,
970=black bucket seats in a Supreme model
65=Lower Body Color (Topaz in '69; don't have data for '72)
B=Upper Body Color (Black?)

Third line, I can't help with.

>I want to restore this beauty and am pretty sure it is near pretty
original >so this should confirm that.  I am really looking forward to
coming into >work on Monday to read the responses that you send.  Yes, I
know, I lead >a pretty dull life.

Well, good luck! I hope people with the correct data for '72 can check
me if I'm wrong on the colors. I got my info from the Year-One catalog
(more than just a catalog, really, with all the data it has; a must-have
for any Cutlass owner) and the '69 Shop manual I have.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:53:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

At 05:29 PM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>So does anybody have a 68 Olds Service Manual they'll sell me?

Sure! Brothers', Oldsmobile USA, Fusick's and Year One will sell you
these, as will many places that specialize in shop manuals. Here are the
numbers:

Year-One (800) 950-9503
Fusick's (860) 623-1583
Olds USA (703) 335-0904
I don't have Brothers' address, but they have a web page that was
mentioned here yesterday; it is listed there, but I forget for how much.

The shop manuals run around $70, and the body manuals run between
$30-$40.

The '69 (covers all models) manual I got from Fusick's was actually a
reprint by Year One, who sells their manuals for $46.00, so try Year-One
first.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:53:33 -0400
Subject: RE: Deep GM Trivia

At 05:16 PM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Are there any other known survivors of the C.C..  Also, did any of the
6

When Chevy bought back all their C.C. cars, there seem to have been two
holdouts: The one now owned by Ford (originally bought by Franklin, I
now gather), and another owned by a New-England doctor who was so
pleased with his car that he didn't want to sell it back.

239 of them were scrapped before they left the factory; Lake Erie owns
the other 520 that were built and recalled (now *there's* one
interesting diving expedition!).

>Cliff Feiler
>I currently have 3 Oldsmobiles
>Actually 4, I just remembered a '79 Diesel in the barn.

<g> Yeah, I guess the Olds diesel wasn't the most memorable car, even
for those who owned them... ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 02:00:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Trunk releases

At 11:27 PM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> This was a moderately rare option on the big olds, don't know about
the a >> bodies. From probably 62 or 63 on, in the big cars there was a
plastic vacuum >> switch covered by a chrome bezel in glove box. The
switch has two >> connections:1) the vacuum input line coming from a
vacuum reserior on the >> engine side of the firewall. 2) Vacuum output
line running to the remote >> lock opening device attached to the trunk
lock. Push the button, vaccum is >> supplied to the trunk >> vacuum
diaphragm, presto open trunk. > >I'm not sure when they started, but my
'61 has this option.  Kinda nice >too.  I can keep the car unlocked, but
still have my trunk secure as >long >as I leave the glovebox locked.  On
mine, their is a metal T-handle >which I pull, you hear a gentle
"hisssss", and the trunk comes up.

There are two types of vacuum trunk releases that I know about (I've had
cars with both).

The type in my '69 Toro runs off a vacuum resevoir tank; you press a
button, and the vacuum is routed to the actuator in the trunk. (kinda
cool; sounds like the doors on the starship enterprise "Pssss..Thunk!")
This works about 3-4 times after the engine shuts off.

The type in a '68 Caprice I had used a pull-knob, which created a vacuum
in a little cylinder in the glovebox, which actuated the trunk release.
This type used no vacuum reserve tank, so it didn't matter if the engine
was off. I pulled this off the car when I parted it out, and still have
it; pretty neat.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:41:59 -0400
Subject: Vacuum Door Locks

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>How long do your PDLs hold their vacuum?  I have seen some of these
hold vacuum for months, but my '67 Ninety Eight doesn't last a day.  The
vacuum tank under the passenger front fender has been soldered, so I'm
thinking maybe it's leaking there.  I went around and trimmed all the
hoses I could get at and it didn't improve it any.

Can't tell you where the system is leaking, but as you know it is. My
system after much work, holds vacuum about 1 or 2 up/down cycles right
after the engine is shut off. But then, I put a BIG cadillac vacuum
reservoir on it and my hoses are good. As is the switch under the dash
and the door actuators.

Holding vacuum for months to me seems a bit urban myth-y. (no offense
intended).
The best my simpler trunk release only system did before I complicated
matters with the PDL was perhaps 5 minutes.

One test you could run is to see if the center of your tank spins. I
think there might be a rubber gasket on the thing which might have worn
out by now. Another test is to just put your mouth on one inlet or other
and suck on it. If it holds vacuum, it's o.k., if not, there's your
problem. This solution works on most parts of such systems, but not the
switch, too many ports.

Hope this helps. Be sure and check out the vacuum links behind the
passenger kick panel and listen for leaks when you use the system or
when the engine is running. And don't expect too much -- after all they
went to solenoids 25 years ago. Vacuum wasn't the best solution.

Chris Fair

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 05:25:39 -0400
Subject: Found this in Rec.autos.marketplace

Classic car collection for sale by owner. Some of the cars currently
available are:

...1956 Chevy Sedan Delivery
...1956 Mercedes Benz 190 SL
...1979 Porche 928
...1962 Ford Thunderbird
...1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass
...1954 Buick Super
...(2) Suzuki 230 ATC's

All vehicles offered are priced to sell and won't last. This is a
private collection that has been treated with care, and is well
maintained. Owner motivated to sell - don't hesitate if you have any
interest in the above vehicles.

Pictures and descriptions available at web page:
http://www.placerville.com/home/classic

checked out the page...he wants $900 for the '69 with a 350, ps, pb &
A/C with only 54K on it...
thought someone might be interested...


- ---M
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- MMayer@InterAccess.Com                 | Matt Mayer VM: (800)
481-1323 		       | "Well, that was interesting......"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:08:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Brothers Automotive Web Site

On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, bemet wrote:

> Just curious what kind of complaints you've heard.
> > Although I have heard of some less-than-impressed customers,
nevertheless > > > Brothers Automotive now has a web site that includes
their catalog and > > prices. > > > > http://www.thehost.com/brothers

This was a fairly recent topic of conversation; a seem to recall a
couple of people saying they had trouble with backorders, etc., though
I've never dealt with them myself. Anyone care to relate their
experience, good or bad? Seems like any company will have *some*
unhappy customers so I'm not passing judgement one way or the other.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

I live in Homestead Florida which is south of Miami by about 30 miles.
I own a 1970 Olds 98 with a working light.  The car was purchased new
by my grandfather in West Palm Beach.  The car has its entire history
in South Florida.  My Light still works!!! A Mecury switch is a common
item, or was.  I sugguest you replace the switch if you can find one.
Mercury is a toxic item, so the switch may not be available. I hope
this helps.


Dennis Sytsma
dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us


On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Dennis W Johnson wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> > > > Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > > > > Which almost inevitably fails. I never did get the replacement
 > > > > > from my friendly GM dealer... >   ...snip... > > ...more
snipping...gotten a bunch of these out of junkyards and none > > has
ever worked...problem is always the same - the little merc switch > >
capsule inside the light assembly corrodes and you lose continuity... >
> Kurt says he's never had a problem... is it just me? After all the >
> trouble I've had with these things I figured workable ones were like >
> gold... > > Greg Beaulieu   ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca   Halifax, Nova
Scotia, Canada > > I would say the problem could be in where you live.
My bro lives in > Miami and the salt air rots electrical connections and
aluminum like > nothing I have ever seen here in the center of the US.
You likely > have the same problem.  Anywhere that moisture can condense
you will > get a salt caused corrosion, like in the middle of the hood
where > the brace comes too close to the metal.  Or under a vinyl roof.
 > These are problems you never see in the interior of the continent. >
Electrical is even worse as salt corrodes metal by setting up an >
electrical current...and you compound the problem by adding more >
electricity.  dj > >

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 09:06:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

>A Mecury switch is a common item, or
>was.  I sugguest you replace the switch if you can find one.  Mercury
is >a toxic item, so the switch may not be available.

You may be able to find a mercury switch that you could use at a marine
store.  Some boats still use mercury switches for their bilge pumps.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 10:11:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Found Dell's original owner!

Since receiving my Olds Enthusiast booklet with title tracers, my next
project is finding the orig. owner of my V-C.  I have the info for my
Delta's owner from my Protect-O-Plate & registrations up through the
early '80s, and need to trace them too if still possible.


What a great story!! I am J*e*a*l*o*u*s - i wanna talk to my babies
orig. owners too.




Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 11:55:25 -0400
Subject: Re: My 1972 olds cutlass "s"

>myself.  By the way 72's rule.  Tell me more about your S car.

Even the wagons?! :-)

Would I find my build sheet in the normal places.  The carpet was
replaced and the guy did not mention finding a build sheet, but I
didn't ask either.  This was the guy who broke my gear indicator cable
somehow when installing carpet and floorbaords.  What a dolt!

Roger Borlase
'72 cutlass cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 12:59:19 -0400
Subject: RE: motor i.d.

ST72 34267LAN249049
TR 970  65 B
09D A65

A65 ia notch back bench seat
09D is built last week of september.

roger borlase	
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
httP://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

>Thanks guys and gals - Have a great weekend!

Too late (see above)

------------------------------

From: "Edward O'Malley" <viperle@xnet.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:08:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Found  '72 C/S- may part it out

Fernando Proietto wrote:
>
> Hey guys/gals,
>         I found a car just sitting doing nothing. The onwer wants to
sell the > entire car. The car is a '72 Cutlass Supreme. Here's the VIN
number > 3J57K2M....  It has a 4 BBl with original air cleaner, blue ex.
with > white interior. Buckets, and floor console. The interior is in
good > shape but not too sure about the front seats, as there were seat
covers > on them, however the owner assures me by phone they are in good
shape. > The exterior doesn't seem to be suffering from any rust. For
those of > you that needed the front panels, I think these are in good
shape. > E-mail me if interested. > > One question, can we tell by the
VIN # if the car has a limited slip > diff. It's a 4 barrel, would that
be enough to have a LSD? If it's is I > have to keep this for
myself..sorry but I've been looking for ever for > my '72 442. As for
the rest of the car, it's available. > > FernandoDoes this car have the
four spoke sport steering wheel or the tic toc tac?

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 05:37:39 -0400
Subject: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

 I just got back from the junkyard where I saw what I think was an
iraquibu. The car was a cheby malibu 4-d with bench seat, a/c and a
3-speed manual tranny.  I couldn't find out an exact year...I couldn't
get inside the car or open a door, it had been turned up on it's side to
rob front suspension parts so I couldn't get at the door jamb or
glovebox(old registration)  The fan shroud had 1978 stamped on it, no
emmisions stickers were surviving. V-6 engine under the hood and the car
was puke green.  I remember someone saying that theese cars had clutch
linkage that could be fitted to other cars of the era.  Everything
pertaining to the clutch and transmission appear intact, does anyone
want parts?  I can inquire if someone is interested.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:45:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Greg Pruett wrote:
>  I just got back from the junkyard where I saw what I think was an
iraquibu. > The car was a cheby malibu 4-d with bench seat, a/c and a
3-speed manual > tranny.  I couldn't find out an exact year...I couldn't
get inside the car > V-6 engine under the hood and the car was puke
green.  I remember someone > saying that theese cars had clutch linkage
that could be fitted to other

Yep, that has to be an Iraquibu... no one else would ever order anything
 like that, they had V-6s, and most of them were either puke green or
beige. I hear that the pedals, clutch linkage, etc. are a direct bolt-in
 for a '78-88 G-body Cutlass if someone wants to convert one to manual
floor shift trans. Never having done that I can't say for sure if it's
true.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:55:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds List Member Registry Update

On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html
>
> >From there, there is a link to both the addition form, and also the
> Registry itself.  Hey! Now you only have one site name to remember for
it!

Yep, that was a problem before. I could never get to the thing, but this
 address works fine now.

> Also, we've only got 42 out of 200'n something members who've filled
out > the form!  The Toro-List has got probably 85 to 90 percent of
their > members in their Registry!  We're falling far behind y'all!
I'd think > that particularly some of the more active people on the
list would've > filled it out.  I've gotten nothing from you Bryce or
Greg B.  Come on > now, this thing only takes about a minute or two to
fill out!

Geez, now I know what it feels like to be singled out! And anyhow,
don't try to compare us to the Toro guys... after all, Tom Cochrane and
Red Rider did a song about them a few years back called "Lunatic
Fringe", didn't he? ;-)

OK, just kidding... really, guys, really!

I finally filled it out. Feedback you want, feedback you're gonna get;
after all, I'm apparently the only person on the face of the earth who
(a) not only doesn't like the user interface of Win95, but (b) has all
kinds of problems every day with using it. So I guess I'm sensitive to
such issues. I'll drop you a private note on the subject.

Thanks, Clay!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: <jev114@Psu.Edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:46:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

>clutch linkage that could be fitted to other
>cars of the era.  Everything pertaining to the clutch and transmission
>appear intact, does anyone want parts?  I can inquire if someone is
>interested.

I'm interested in the pedals and clutch linkage if they will fit
79 cutlass without to much hassle!

Jeff

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:12:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

> fan shroud had 1978 stamped on it, no emmisions stickers were
surviving.

Didn't the big sale of 'unwanted' Iraquibu's occur in 1981?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@flash.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:32:41 -0400
Subject: Date:	Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:32:41 -0400



------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:53:08 -0400
Subject: Can anyone decode this firewall tag for me?

It reads:

   MADE IN CANADA
  D55M20U30
ST  68  34487  05319597  BODY
TR  940  1-4-3  SS       PAINT


- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 11:58:15 -0400
Subject: Help

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------



help

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:10:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Found  '72 C/S- may part it out

> > FernandoDoes this car have the four spoke sport steering wheel or
the tic toc > tac?


Sorry Edward, the car doesn't have any of those perforance options. I'm
also looking for the sport wheel, however I do have a tic-toc-tac, which
I'm not currently using. I'm nt sure I want to sell it, I not even sure
what they go for either. I will let you know if I change my mind.

Fernando

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:42:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

>>clutch linkage that could be fitted to other
>>cars of the era.  Everything pertaining to the clutch and transmission
>>appear intact, does anyone want parts?  I can inquire if someone is
>>interested.
>
>I'm interested in the pedals and clutch linkage if they will fit
>79 cutlass without to much hassle!
>
>Jeff

     Yeah, me too!  If it's not too much trouble, an inquiry would be
interesting.  I'd planned to attempt a Firebird pedal swap someday, but
never got around to it.  A friend of mine had a '78 El Camino with a 5
speed in it.  The pedals looked stock, but I've no idea for sure, and
the car's long gone.  I sure wanted his pedals :(

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Can anyone decode this firewall tag for me?

On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:
> It reads:
>
>    MADE IN CANADA
>   D55M20U30
> ST  68  34487  05319597  BODY
> TR  940  1-4-3  SS       PAINT

ST 68 34487
1968 model year, 442 Holiday coupe (hardtop)

05319597
I think this should be OS (Oshawa, Ont., plant) 319597 plant sequence #

TR940
Black strato-bucket seat interior

1-4-3 SS
Don't know about the 1-4-3, date code maybe?
SS is Jade Gold paint, upper and lower

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:43:19 -0400
Subject: RE: Can anyone decode this firewall tag for me?

>   MADE IN CANADA

made in canada	(duh)
d55 -> Sports Console
m20 -> wide ratio / HD 4 spd
U30 -> something electrical (u29 is inst panel ctsy and map lamps)

  D55M20U30
>ST  68  34487  05319597  BODY

Its a '68 442 Holiday Coupe

>TR  940
??
>1-4-3  SS       PAINT
??

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:09:09 -0400
Subject: I bought it!

I took the wife with me to Concord this AM and begged her appropriately
so I am now the proud owner of the 83 Calias w/t-tops and the 403.
What is the orginal color of the 403?? the one in this car is ugly. Not
sure I can describe the color.

------------------------------

From: rebelxs <rebelxs@cadvision.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:49:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Can anyone decode this firewall tag for me?

Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:
>
> It reads:
>
>    MADE IN CANADA
>   D55M20U30
D55 Console-Floor compartment
M20 Manual Transmission-4 Speed
U30  Instrument Gauges

> ST  68  34487
1968      344 is 442 87 is Holiday Coupe
05  Should read os  which is  Oshawa Plant rest are unit number

> TR  940  1-4-3  SS       PAINT
TR is Trim which is black buckets
1-4-3 is the time built code
SS is the paint code which is Jade Gold upper and lower
dupont #4905L
Ditzler#43794


from rebelxs@cadvision.com
 I also have 68 442 which is same color!!!

> --
>      Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
>  Excavation, Demolition, Paving
>          216.291.2780

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #359
********************************
 
