To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/29/96 07:13:27 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #346


oldsmobile-digest         Tuesday, 29 October 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 346


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:52:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mondello address?

Sorry, the book was kind of old and that's all I had readily available,
sorry for any inconvenience.

Katana72

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:04:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Replacing 350 trans. with a 200-4r trans

art,

DON"T DO IT !!!!

I had put a 200r4 in my 72 temporarily and it didn't work that well. It
fit just fine , but it couldn't take the HP of the stock, nearly dead
350 motor. The stock lock up worked just fine. You have to locate the
connector and I would recommend buying an adapter kit fot this change.
The parts companies sell them for the 700r4, etc. it is a 4 pin
connector of which only two are used, located on the sideof the tranny.
If  you only plan to putt around and it is the only recourse, then do
it, but I will tell you, my mileage didn't improve that much and I did
have the lock up engaged.


Katana72           It's NOT your daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!
         Hastings,MN

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:15:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Mooring status

Lisa sez:
> Good heavans - I had a '67 C/S convert & it wasnt that bad!!  What did
you > do to her?  If your Cutlass qualifies for mooring status - what
must my > Vista Cruiser qualify for?!

Actually Lisa, I made that comment in jest -- my C/S is quite tight and
handles well.  A lot of my friends are just, well, intimidated by its
size, relative to the econo-boxes most of 'em have.... not to mention
its size relative to the convertible I owned just previous to Big Red, a
1978 Fiat Spyder.

So I often get comments from them on how my *mid-size* vehicle is a bit
o' a boat... that happens to eat theirs for breakfast :)

Yup, I came back to my roots -- not to mention my senses :)

>
> I measure my 10 mpg by the day - I get 3.25 days outta a tank.....

Probably when all is said & done I get around 14 - 15 mpg... I think my
Q-Jet dumps a wee bit, it'll be one of the projects when it comes outta
hibernation next spring.

>
> Happy Oldsmobiling -
> Lisa Madsen
>

Always.  In fact, 'Happy Oldsmobiling' is practically a redundant term
:)



Tim (Out of his Non-V8 Phase) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "bill" <bill281@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:25:37 -0400
Subject: id for motor

I checked the side of the block no numbers.
The head numbers to the left of #1 sparkplug 8     #3 sparkplug 7	
#5 spark plug   the letter X .
then small numbers on the head   cid     411   828


thanks bill
1982 cutlass

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:41:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Replacing 350 trans. with a 200-4r trans

On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 Katana72@aol.com wrote:

> art,
>
> DON"T DO IT !!!!
>
> I had put a 200r4 in my 72 temporarily and it didn't work that well.
It fit > just fine , but it couldn't take the HP of the stock, nearly
dead 350 motor.

You can put a 200-r4 behind a 350 or a 455, but you have to get it built
properly to take the abuse.  Art Carr recommends a non lockup torque
converter for this kind of application, I believe.

- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services
Department http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod
Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:56:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Some GM history (was: Flames are high tonight!!!)

Kevin Sez:

> General Motors was founded in New York on September 16, 1908, and
mainly > consisted of Buick Motor Company (which had been purchased and
reorganized > by Durant-Dort in 1904).  Then, Durant acquired
Oldsmobile.  The following > year, after several failed attempts, a deal
with Cadillac was made - > imagine a company, earning almost 2 million a
year, that was purchased for a > mere 4.5 million!  I guess Buick wins
out as the 'first' with GM (and I > don't even own one!) <g>. > <Snip>

> Cadillac is generally regarded as having the first successful
production > V8 engine.  They were also the first to introduce an
inherently balanced > V8 (quartered crankshaft with integral
counterweights vs. a flat 4 > cylinder crank).  Curiously, the 'modern'
Ferrari F355 uses a 180 degree > crankshaft!

Thanks for the info, Kevin!  Hopefully, this'll help put out some of the
smoldering embers from the flaming :)

Speaking of that Caddy V8, I recall reading somewhere that one
demonstration shown, to prove its technological advance from all other
engines at the time, was that Cadillac had several engines (4?) broken
down, and reassembled with parts from each going into each, then firing
them up successfully to the astoundment of the viewers!  I guess
interchangeability was something unheard-of up to that point...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

>

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:00:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds sighting(Grace)

> At 05:08 PM 10/25/96 -0300, Brad Baker wrote:
> >On the show Grace Under Fire, the car is definitely a Pontiac,most
likely a > >Catalina, and probably a '67. >

Never saw the show, I'll have to watch the opening credits for this
Poncho. And then switch back to whatever worthwhile show I had on :)



Tim (Whose First Car Was a '67 Catalina) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:11:11 -0400
Subject: parts car

Well hello all!
Over the weekend, I was at the junkyard hunting for a new carburretor
and I got lucky.  I spent about 4 hours checking EVERY possible GM on
the lot for a good carb.  I only found 2 the first was in a bus (bad
choke) and the second was in a Caddiraft.  The Caddiraft was odd
though, it was one of the larger model and it was an older one, like
late 70's or early 80's, but it was FRONT wheel drive-- never seen
anything like this before.  It looked something like a luxo version of
the Buick Riviera from the same time period could someone shed some
light on this car. Anyway back to topic:  the Caddi carb. wouldn't
work because it was quite different.   As I was walking away back to my
car they pulled a decent looking '81 Calais in on a rollback.  I
commented to my friend that that one probably has a carb on it-- I was
frustrated by then.  The owner of the 'yard piped up then, and said
'yup, that car there's got a 4bbl.  I quickly hopped up on the back of
the rollback and popped the hood. There, lo and behold, was a 350
rocket motor with that elusive quadrajet glistening underneath the
breather.  Here also were the front bumper, driverside door, and header
panel that I needed.  I asked the man how much he would sell the whole
car for.  He said $200.  Needless to say, I was the proud owner of
ANOTHER '80's Cutlass with a 350.  This Cutlass has a few "goodies" on
it:  headers, chrome valve covers, brand new AC Delco rapidfire plugs,
brand new Blue Streak ignition.  I tried switching the carbs yesterday,
and I just could not get my car to idle on the new carb.  Any thoughts?
It seemed like everytime I unscrewed the fuel line to check things out,
there was an UNGODLY amount of pressure built up in it.  I replaced the
fuel filter.  Do you think the carb. just needs a rebuild?  I've never
done this before, any advice?  Would I be better off to let somebody
with experience do it ($$$) My old carb is not a candidate for rebuild,
because when the motor fell before, it fell on the carb.  The motor is
good, but in need of a rebuild, how much would that 350 be worth?  My
old intake has "4" stamped on it, the new one has "Y" stamped on it,
which is better?  I haven't checked the heads on it yet.  I don't know
if I'll use the chrome valve covers or not, I sort of like my lovely
gold ones that say "oldsmobile" on them.  I will almost definitely use
the headers.  Can I use the instrument cluster with the tach. etc. in
my Cutlass?  Does anybody have experience with the factory tachs.?  Are
they accurate?  Any problems that you have found with that setup?  Mine
is a Supreme, but it does have the center console and bucket seats
(factory).  This also gave me a much nicer console plate and shifter
(hard to find) than mine.

'Nuff rambling for now.
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@access.etsu-tn.edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. (Godknowshowmanymiles))
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:14:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

Tony sez:
>
> Geez Mike!   I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers here!  But I do
leave > you with a question or two....Cadillac...expensive....ultra >
quality....Isn't the Fleetwood powered by a 350 "Chubby" LT1?  What
gives? > Cadillac cheap?  Also, are 2 bolt main Chev blocks high nickel?

The last of the RWD Broughams (FWIW, 'Fleetwood' is almost like an
option package, which could be had on the FWD and RWD platforms) were
LT1 powered. My '88 Brougham had an Olds 307, dunno what the last year
for using that was. Kevin? :)

In any event, '96 was the last year for *any* RWD sedan from GM.  Now
it's just Vettes, F-Bodies, and trucks for RWD.  Somebody slap 'em
silly! :P

> 92 Seville STS  Ultra Quality!

Nice car, BTW.  I hate what they did to the Seville for '97, tho.  It
looks 'boaty' again :P



Tim (Hoping to Buy His Grandpa's '96 Concours in a Coupla Years)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:27:35 -0400
Subject: Re: parts car

Clayton states:

> Well hello all!

<Snip>

> the second was in a Caddiraft.  The Caddiraft was odd though, it was
one > of the larger model and it was an older one, like late 70's or
early > 80's, but it was FRONT wheel drive-- never seen anything like
this

Almost certainly an Eldorado.  Has been FWD since '67.

You own a '72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles) and yer
callin' your junkyard find a Caddiraft?!?!? :)

Tawk about yer pot callin' the kettle... :)


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:34:17 -0400
Subject: '86 442 200-4R

Hey guys,

	I just want to say thanks to everybody who responded last week to my
question about the "mushy" transmission.  I adjusted the TV cable Friday
afternoon (it was showing six ridges and factory is on the first ridge
so it was way off).  It's like driving a different car now.  I'm very
pleased with they way it shifts now, thanks.

Thanks again,
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:36:08 -0400
Subject: '86 442 repro. stickers

Hello,

	Does anyone know of a source for reproduction stickers (the gold
pinstripes and 442 stickers)?

Thanks,
Steve

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:42:25 -0400
Subject: '86 442 tach

Hello,

	It's me again.  Hopefully I'll be able to help someone else out before
long, it seems like all I ever do is ask questions.  Could anyone that
has a similar model car with factory tach tell me what your tach is
reading between 55 - 70 mph?  Mine is reading 5100 rpm at 65.  With
overdrive and 3.73's it should be about 2100 rpm shouldn't it?  The
factory exhaust is so quiet at highway speeds that I can't hear to tell
if it's really turning close to 5100 rpm or closer to 2100.  If the
factory tach is off is there any way to correct it?  If the engine is
turning that high what should I look for to be wrong?

Thanks again for all your help,
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:44:37 -0400
Subject: Re: NEWBIE

I would be "glad" to trade you your rear-end for my 2.41 rear end in my
'84 Cutlass ;-).  Just kidding!  You will sacrifice your performace if
you go to a lower rear end gear.  My cutlass will tire-burn from a stop,
 but not too much.  Now top end is another matter, I have not yet lost
a top end race (although I've not raced too many, and I'm sure somebody
on the list has got something that would beat me).  I even won against
a Corvette top end one time.  I can also beat a Ford Crown Vic police
special (from what people tell me ;-)).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.etsu-tn.edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:49:06 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT flames! HOT flames! this morning (was something else)

so maybe Chevy did have an early V8-- didn't Olds. have the first small
block in 40-something?

Clayton Pierce
misc. sig. info that you've
already seen to many times.

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:07:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

Steve wrote:

>  I think a stock GN and a 68 442 would be a pretty even match on
street >  tires with stock exhaust. However every GN I have seen at the
track with >  sticky tires has run in the 13's and a whole bunch of
them are in the >  12's.

I saw in one of the posts that the GN had turbo assist.  Take out the
turbo and would the GN be an even match?  Probably not.  I feel that
comparing a 68 442 to any new car is a little unfair since there are
weight considerations, mechanical assisting devices (like turbos), and
even gasoline considerations. These newer cars can digest today's
gasoline with no problem, however, my 68 would rather have something
more rich.

BTW, is it unsave to use octane booster all of the time?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:11:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

>BTW, is it unsave to use octane booster all of the time?

More of waste of money than enything?

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:20:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

Roger Borlase wrote:
>
> >BTW, is it unsave to use octane booster all of the time?
>
> More of waste of money than enything?

Should I be using a lead additive?


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:57:23 -0400
Subject: Re: id for motor

>I checked the side of the block no numbers.
>The head numbers to the left of #1 sparkplug 8     #3 sparkplug 7
>#5 spark plug   the letter X .
>then small numbers on the head   cid     411   828
>
>
>thanks bill
>1982 cutlass

Bill --

>From the info you gave in your last letter,  I think you said that the
numbers on the oil fill tube started with a "4".  The first number on
the tube indicates the production year of the engine,  provided it is
the original tube!  This would indicate a 1974 350.  The "8" on the head
by the #1 plug indicate 1973 to 1976 350 heads.  Reinforcing the fact
that it could be a 1974 motor.  The big number 2 by the oil sending unit
means 350.

Olds didn't cast the displacement into the side of the blocks until they
went to the light weight design in 1977.  The '77 and newer blocks will
have the cubic inches cast in large numbers right above the center
freeze plug.  The 307 will be in liters.  (5L).

Another way to ID your motor for the year (and originality for those who
want to purchase a "numbers match" car), is to check on the machined pad
right under the head on the drivers side front of the block. There you
will find the VIN of the car thet the engine came out of.  It is stamped
and usually requires a wire brush cleaning to read!  It starts with a 3
(for Olds division), then the year, (4 for 1974) then what assy plant
(M) for Lansing etc,  then the sequintal number of the VIN.

Tony

Cars..........                                       Boats..........
1970 442 W-30                                        1970 Rayson Craft
455 Olds 1970 Toro GT  W-34                                   flat
bottom V-drive 1965 Jetstar 88  w/4-spd                             79
Sidewinder 455 Olds jet 1985 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
86 Wellcraft Nova 454 Chev 1992 Seville STS

------------------------------

From: Rick Kromeich <rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:57:06 -0400
Subject: motor i.d.

Can anyone give me any info about the following block # 38 120603.


I beleive this is the correct number - it is the best I can see.  If it
is not in the correct format, please let me know so I can try to
decipher it better. I'm looking to find out what year the motor is and
how it would tie back to a particular model car.


Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx gang!
- -Rick
rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:58:53 -0400
Subject: parts car -Reply

Clayton,

I'm no expert at carburetion, but I'd be inclined to think it might be
stuck floats.  If the float valve is stuck closed (does that ever
happen?), gas wouldn't be able to enter the carb.  Which would explain
why your car won't run and why there's an incredible amount of pressure
in the fuel line.  But that's just my best guess.

You shouldn't *have* to have your carb rebuilt if all the seals and
gaskets are OK... but that's only if it is indeed the floats *and* if
there's a way to get them unstuck without tearing the carb apart.

- -BS

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:57:02 -0400
Subject: Air Pump = Mini-supercharger?

Tom, don't worry about the catalytic converter.  Converters with an
A.I.R. line running to them are actually a 2 in 1 design.  The extra
oxygen is to improve the efficiency of reducing CO and HC in the 2nd
bed.  During rich engine operation (heavy throttle), air is diverted to
the air cleaner to avoid overheating of the converter.  Disconnecting
the AIR pump is just a sure way of protecting things! :)

>      I've heard that some mini-go-cart racers use these air pumps as a
 >      supercharger.  How's that for innovative?  Or maybe I'll get
some air

That's interesting!  Just string 3 or 4 pumps together....  <g>

	That is interesting... What would happen if you just always diverted
	the air pump output into the air cleaner (air filter housing)?

	Would that be a mini-supercharger?

	Just curious, my '70 doesn't have an air pump.

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible
.^. lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________
/9|8\ (810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |
\}|{/ Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=
v



	

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:58:19 -0400
Subject: Newbie w/'71 Cutlass S

Hello all;

Just subscribed to your list, but don't know how long I can stay as I am
connected at work. Anyway, just wanted to say hello and tell you all
what kind of car I have...

It's a "71 Cutlass "S" Holiday Coupe. I bought it from a guy here at
work for $400.00 and drove it home.(!) Has a 350 2bbl that burns a
little oil on start up, but after a tune up, new fluid and filters, it
runs great. (very smooth) Single exhaust, TH350, 2.56 peg leg 10 bolt. I
had shocks put on and the front end checked out satisfactorily. I have
removed the door panels (f&r) and they are being freshened up. (most of
the panels were good, just having top 1/4 recovered in  most cases. Dark
Saddle) Outside, car has some rot in the top. Front left fender is
dented but usable. Front bumper needs straightening and re-chroming.
It's a project, and I think I'll be able to keep costs down and maybe
I'll keep this one.

I plan on adding a 600 Holley I have and a new dual plane intake
(aftermarket).

Questions:
1.) should I clean off protective oil/grease sludge from front end parts
and engine block? Just bugs me how nasty it is.
2.) Anybody live in the south that wants to trade my peg leg rear end
for a posi with 3.?? gears?  : p (yeah right)

Mitch Delk
Huntsville, Alabama

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:25:33 -0400
Subject: Distributor advice wanted

I think my distributor advance may be broken/off/wrong.  The engine
runs just fine if I accellerate lightly, but when I step on it the
engine bogs down and then lugs slowly up to speed.  I think this is
because the distributor doesn't advance the timing enough (at all?).
Am I right about this?  What else might cause it?

If I am right, and I need to fix/replace my distributor, how should
I go about doing it?  Ideally I'd like to have a replacement in hand
ready to go and just swap the two out.  I assume I can probably find
a replacement unit in a junk yard.  What should I look for in the
junk yard unit?  Once I have the unit what do I need to do to it to
prepare it properly?  I've heard that there are "rebuild kits" on
the market.  Will this guide me through the steps or is this a
bad idea?  If it is a bad idea, what would be a good idea? :)
I'm fairly good with mechanical things, and I follow instructions
well, but this is new territory for me.  I've never done anything
more to a distributor than replace a cap and rotor (haven't even had
to change/adjust the points yet).

What about moving to some kind of electronic unit?  I'm more interested
in reliability (or perhaps repairability) than performance.  My only
experience with electronic distributors came with a MGB and they were
for $#!+ there -- the electronic control module was forever burning
itself out.  Then again that car was rather messed up electronicly
anyway, they'd only just recently come around to the idea of negative
earth.

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Matt Breitbach <mbreitba@iastate.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:44:57 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 tach

  Mine is reading 5100 rpm at 65.  With overdrive and 3.73's it should
be about 2100 rpm shouldn't it?

i had an '87 442 and had basically the same problem, it had something to
do with the wiring in the tach.  i sold the car before i got it fixed.
sometimes, though, the tach would work correctly.  this is most likely
your problem.

matt breitbach

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 06:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Pump = Mini-supercharger?

     No, the air pump has so little volume that you wouldn't get any
     pressure at all.

     On the other hand, after a whole weekend of rounding up leaves (and

     we're only half way done) I couldn't help but wonder what would
happen
     if I hooked my leaf blower up to the my intake?  It definitely has
     enough air volume!  Looking at the impeller on a centrifugal
     supercharger and the impeller on the leaf blower, there are
definite
     similarities.  Unfortunately, my leaf blower is electric so I
wouldn't
     get too far. . .

     P.S. If you're buying a house, never, ever, ever get one with a
     chestnut tree.  In addition to being impossible to rake up, our
     backyard was a hardhat area (don't dare park your car back there!)
for
     a month while the little spiked balls rained down.  What a pain. .
.

     Tom "Anybody want some chestnuts, cheap?" Lentz

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Air Pump = Mini-supercharger?
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/28/96 10:04
AM

>      I've heard that some mini-go-cart racers use these air pumps as a
 >      supercharger.  How's that for innovative?  Or maybe I'll get
some air

That's interesting!  Just string 3 or 4 pumps together....  <g>

 That is interesting... What would happen if you just always diverted
 the air pump output into the air cleaner (air filter housing)?

 Would that be a mini-supercharger?


------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:45:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Pump = Mini-supercharger?

> 	That is interesting... What would happen if you just always diverted
> 	the air pump output into the air cleaner (air filter housing)?
>
> 	Would that be a mini-supercharger?

The maximum output of these air pumps amounts to a small percentage of
the intake requirements for normal engines.  I think that the air
cleaner housing serves as a noise muffler for the unwanted pump output
(e.g. extra oxygen in the exhaust could lead to backfiring under
deleration), otherwise you'd hear a 'sputtering' noise everytime you
lift off the gas. Some newer engines use an electric A.I.R. pump, which
only runs for 15 seconds to 4 minutes after startup.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 14:48:57 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 tach

On 28 Oct 96 at 10:42, Steven Larry Cannon wrote:

>  Could anyone that has a similar model car with factory tach tell me
what >  your tach is reading between 55 - 70 mph?  Mine is reading 5100
rpm >  at 65.  With overdrive and 3.73's it should be about 2100 rpm >
shouldn't it?

Steve,

Have you tried pulling the I/P and checking the back of the tach's
wire connections, and more importantly, that the 4-6-8 engine type
switch on the back of the tach is correctly set to "8".  It seems the
contacts wear out over time, ant the switch tends to migrate to a
'lesser' engine.  Also, chech the contacts and make sure they are
clean.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 14:56:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo

Gang,

I just got my speedometer fixed and noticed that it wobble +/- 5 mph
when I am driving.  Is this normal?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:33:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo

>I just got my speedometer fixed and noticed that it wobble +/- 5 mph
when I am >driving.  Is this normal?

Only when your speedo cable should be replaced or its very cold outside.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:35:37 -0400
Subject: tire bad

Hi folks.

My tire ended up being defective and was replaced under warranty.  The
tire was only 3 months old.  Firestone was even nice enough to mount
and balance it for me.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:58:13 -0400
Subject: Rust around the spoiler....

I wanted to share a little tale of my weekend, and pose a question to
those more knowledgeable on rust and its possible prevention.

Recently, I was gassing up the car and was staring at the spoiler
where it meets the trunk on the side.  I noticed a very small rust
bubble and became instantly interested in it.  I decided the spoiler
had to come off and I would fix the "little" spot.  Well, as you may
have guessed already, the little spot ended up being a majority of
the area under the spoiler, more specifically, the 8 bolt holes for
holding it on.  The factory gaskets had discentegrated (sp.) and the
metal tops of the bolts rubbed the trunk lid for an unknown period of
time.  I sanded the area under the spoiler to bare, shiny metal
(except a few pencil point size spots), primered with Krylon, and
threw on the color coat after a few hours..

What can I do to reduce the possibility of this happening again?  The
dealer doesn't sell new gaskets for the posts, so I will have to
fabricate something.  I was thinking of something like a really thin
grommet.  The gaskets that were there were about 3/4 inch in diameter
and a foamy substance - sort of like the 3M double sided tape.

Should I have done something else to keep the rust demons away?

Thanks.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad 442 ( with a lot less Rust than friday - ugh)

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:04:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Overdrive w/out an OD trans...was Re: your mail

Scott R Clark wrote:
>
> 	I've seen these before.  Basically what it is, is an overdrive
> unit that attaches to the back of the transmission (kind of like one
of > the old manual overdrive trannies...you know, the ones with the >
"overdrive" knob under the dash that were popular in the 50s/early 60s). >
I think they run in the .70 to .65 gear range. > 	It would be pretty
cool to add one to any four speed, (esp. > something like a close ratio
Muncie) since you would effectively have a > five speed! (Not as cool as
having a T-56 Six speed, but still pretty > cool).  I'm also assuming
you could put one on an automatic too, which > would be equally cool.

Actually it would give you an 8 speed, although it would be kinda slow
to use them all.  The OD unit effectively gives you a 2-speed (Hi/Low)
transfer case.  Each gear of the tranny can have either the Hi or Low
range, so you end up with 8 gears.  To use them all however, requires
you to shift the tranny and the OD unit together.  Not very good for
fast shifts.  It would work good going to 4 Hi though to simulate 5
gears.  Start in Low (normal), shift 1 -> 4.  For the 4 -> 5, kick
the OD into Hi.

>
> 	I seem to remember seeing an add for these things in a hi-perf
> catalog (Summit?), and they were selling them for relativly cheap (+/-
> $700 if I remember correctly) because the company was going out of
> business.  Too bad too, it's a cool idea.
>

One I know is called the Ranger torque splitter.  You can get on
OverDrive or UnderDrive unit.  i.e. End up with a '5th' gear on a four
speed (OD), or a '.5th' gear with the UD.  Actually it's more like .8 as
it doesn't split it in half.


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:29:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo

Roger Borlase wrote:

> Only when your speedo cable should be replaced or its very cold
outside.

Well it was about 60 degrees outside when I was driving it.  I'll check
going home today from work.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:35:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Overdrive w/out an OD trans...was Re: your mail

Dan responded to what Scott Clark wrote:
> > cool).  I'm also assuming you could put one on an automatic too,
which > > would be equally cool.

Is it possible on an automatic?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:33:46 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 200-4R

At 14:34 10/28/1996 +0000,>Steve Cannon wrote;
>Hey guys,
>
>	I just want to say thanks to everybody who responded last week to my
question about the "mushy" transmission.  I adjusted the TV cable Friday
afternoon (it was showing six ridges <snip>              ^^^^^^^^

Sounds like his VCR heads need cleaning!!! ;)
Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:32:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Rust around the spoiler....

Mike wrote:

> holding it on.  The factory gaskets had discentegrated (sp.) and the

disintegrated :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Roland Klinger <Roland.Klinger@bonn.netsurf.de>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:39:49 -0400
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Urgent_Help_=B470_98?=

Hello all,
a friend from Tchechoslovakia is visiting us here in Germany and is
looking for an Olds engine for his car, a 1970  =B498 Convertible
because his engine is down.

Problem is:  He doesn=B4t know which engine he has in his car!!!!

What he does know is the VIN-Code (or most of it):

        384 67 (0? or D?) M 244 652

I=B4m rather strong in =B450=B4s Olds but don=B4t know anything about
=B470= =B4s.

Anybody out there who can tell me what engine is supposed to belong to
that=
 car?

Thanks, Roland

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:48:57 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: The Painful Truth...(long)

Have you driven the W-body Cutlass with the FE3 suspension or an
International Series (FE3 std.)?  Great handling, great ride, like the
Lumina Euro, I can slide the rear in the corners.  Did a 180 one day -
pretty stupid on a blind curve!!!

The base Cutlass was/is a bit boring.  The I/S was/is pretty nice.  No
cruddy escort/tempo/thunderbird/mustang knobs and door locks.  I guess
F*rd decided you could have something other than black, but switches
are another matter.

For trivia sake, did your '89's rear view mirror obstruct the driver's
visor?  Did the passenger power lock switch have "LOCK" written on the
unlocking side of the switch?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -------------
<snip>
The first car I
had was a 1989 (I think) Cutlass Supreme.  Not a bad car at all, liked
it quite a bit, not real "sporty", but a good all around driver
nonetheless.
 When I re-ordered, I got a Buick Regal (1991), and I was happy with
that. <snip>a little bit better of a "sport" ride, but still not quite
tops in what I had out there.
 Last I ordered a 1994 Lumina Euro (gave the upgraded package for
incentive, of course), and I was extremely pleased with it.  Sport ride,
fairly quick (for that type/style of car), and comfortable.  It was a
kick to drive, was even able to get the rear to slide in corners while
the front stayed put, and it handled good too. <snip>

(Putting Soap Box Away)
Chris.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:27 -0400
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Urgent_Help_=B470_98?=

The quick answer: an Olds 455, F block, E heads.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------
Hello all,
a friend from Tchechoslovakia is visiting us here in Germany and is
looking for an Olds engine for his car, a 1970  =B498 Convertible
because his engine is down.

Problem is:  He doesn=B4t know which engine he has in his car!!!!

What he does know is the VIN-Code (or most of it):

        384 67 (0? or D?) M 244 652

I=B4m rather strong in =B450=B4s Olds but don=B4t know anything about
=B470= =B4s.

Anybody out there who can tell me what engine is supposed to belong to
that=
 car?

Thanks, Roland

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:47:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Rust around the spoiler....

> Mike wrote:
>
> > holding it on.  The factory gaskets had discentegrated (sp.) and the

                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, blows me down, I's got no problems with your pronunskiation!
Ack-ack-ack-ack... :)



Tim (Let's Build a Spinach-Fueled Rocket 350!) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:47 -0400
Subject: Re: parts car

>80's, but it was FRONT wheel drive-- never seen anything like this
>before.  It looked something like a luxo version of the Buick Riviera

     I'm not sure of the years, but many of the older ElDorados were
based on the same platform as the Toronados.  I won't go any farther
with my sour grapes here:) but I do like the straight lines of the Toros
~much~ better around '78 or so, but the early 80's ElDorados were
~really~ nice looking cars too.  I'm pretty sure the Riv's were always
rear wheel drive, but they often had 403's in 'em.



>looking '81 Calais in on a rollback.  I commented to my friend that
that >one probably has a carb on it-- I was frustrated by then.  I
asked the man how >much he would sell the whole car for.  He said $200.


- ---Oooooh, I'm sooooooooooooo jealous now!

          and I just could not get my car to idle on the new
>carb.  Any thoughts?  It seemed like everytime I unscrewed the fuel
line >to check things out, there was an UNGODLY amount of pressure
built up in >it.  I replaced the fuel filter.

     You mentioned alot of aftermarket parts in there.  What kind of
fuel pump does it have?  I had problems with my new Holley pump and the
Q-jet, because the pump would build upwards of nine psi and higher.  At
idle, it would blow the needle off the seat, and flood out the float
bowl, and then the venturis, and then the engine.  You can imagine how
it ran!  It sounds like that might be worth checking in to.

     Good Luck, and congrats on your find!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Pump = Mini-supercharger?

>
>     No, the air pump has so little volume that you wouldn't get any
>     pressure at all.
>
>     On the other hand, after a whole weekend of rounding up leaves
(and >     we're only half way done) I couldn't help but wonder what
would happen >     if I hooked my leaf blower up to the my intake?  It
definitely has >     enough air volume!  Looking at the impeller on a
centrifugal >     supercharger and the impeller on the leaf blower,
there are definite >     similarities.  Unfortunately, my leaf blower
is electric so I wouldn't >     get too far. . .



Yeah, it'd look kinda suspicious at the trees with 1/2 mile or so of
extension cord coiled up behind the staging area!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:59:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Rust around the spoiler....

>> holding it on.  The factory gaskets had discentegrated (sp.) and the
>
>disintegrated :-)

     Yeah so there!  Hope that helps!   :)

Hear in Muntana wee just yooz duck tap and smurf-***(silicone) fer that!

     (I'm joking of course!!!)   :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Who <sage@204.248.93.5>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:03:37 -0400
Subject: Question

I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl motor.
Where can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner. I
have been looking all over for one. Any direction would be great.

Thanks

Chris

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:14:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Question

Year One has decals for most if not all air cleaners from this era.

800-950-9503
800-680-6806 toll free fax

>----------
>From: 	Who[SMTP:sage@204.248.93.5]
>Sent: 	Monday, October 28, 1996 3:03 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	Question
>
>I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl motor.
Where >can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner.
I have been >looking all over for one. Any direction would be great. >
>Thanks > >Chris > > > >

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:13:35 -0400
Subject: Re: parts car

buehner wrote:
>
> I'm not sure of the years, but many of the older ElDorados were based
> on the same platform as the Toronados.

Starting in 67, the year after the Toronado introduction.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:17:28 -0400
Subject: RE: Question

Where do you live? I would like to see your Cutlass if you are close.
(doubt you are, just a shot in the dark)

>----------
>From: 	Who[SMTP:sage@204.248.93.5]
>Sent: 	Monday, October 28, 1996 3:03 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	Question
>
>I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl motor.
Where >can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner.
I have been >looking all over for one. Any direction would be great. >
>Thanks > >Chris > > > >

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:23:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Pump =DeckerCharger(tm)

At 06:34 AM 10/28/96 -0400, Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>     No, the air pump has so little volume that you wouldn't get any
>     pressure at all.
>
>     On the other hand, after a whole weekend of rounding up leaves
(and >     we're only half way done) I couldn't help but wonder what
would happen >     if I hooked my leaf blower up to the my intake?  It
definitely has >     enough air volume!  Looking at the impeller on a
centrifugal >     supercharger and the impeller on the leaf blower,
there are definite >     similarities.  Unfortunately, my leaf blower
is electric so I wouldn't >     get too far. . .

This idea has been tossed around most of the summer on the F-body list.
There is actually talk going on there now about it. It can be done and
in fact someone did hook up a Black and Decker leaf blower on their 91
Firebird Formula with no noticeable difference.  The idea sounds good
but you have to take into account air/fuel mixture, spark, etc. All the
stuff a Vortech or Paxton take into account. I didn't pay close
attention to the talks on the F-list but if you are serious about it
join the list and ask around as many people have worked on developing
the idea. I don't know maybe it would work on a carbed car instead of a
fuel injected one? - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate
student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the
December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it
at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:23:21 -0400
Subject: RE: Question

>I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl motor.
Where >can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner.
I have been >looking all over for one. Any direction would be great.

Oldsmbolie USA.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:30:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Question

In a message dated 96-10-28 16:10:10 EST, you write:

<< I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl
motor. Where
 can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner. I have
been
 looking all over for one. Any direction would be great.

 Thanks

 Chris
  >>

A friend of mine by the name of DR. Decal can help you.  He lives here
in Michigan and repos the Air cleaner stickers and more from 1935 to
1992.

His address is   Mark Cornea Reproductions
                        P.O. box 748
                        Dearborn Hts. MI 48127
His product is quality and just like the originals

W Machines (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:23:00 -0400
Subject: Witt Visit/Rallye 350 Update

Hello all,

Had Chris Witt up for the weekend- had quite a parts-scounging and
trading bonanza. Oldsmobile all weekend long!

We put in two darn-near eight-hour days at the local oldcar yard. Got
lotsa real cool and not-so common goodies for my '68.

Chris also brought up his copy of 4-4-2 by the Numbers. Gotta get me a
copy. We found the mysterious TL code from my 3.55 posi rear end listed;
turns out the Texas posi is actually a *correct* '69 442 rear end! No
kidding, the Canadian-built 69 442's had C-type rear axles, which this
is.

I had quite an emotional swing... went from thinking I was stuck with a
Ch*velle rear end to rejoicing over scoring perhaps one of the rarest
(and some say *the* strongest) 442 rear axles!

Chris also brought me up a bunch of goodies which we had been
negotioating over the past many months. Coolest item: a full '68 Rallye
Pac! Yeah, Chris!!

We had the time of our lives running around all weekend picking parts.
We also went and looked at the now-infamous 70 Rallye 350 F85 post coupe
together. It was great, Chris could hardly contain his excitement!

This is a great scenario: the owner of this R350 doesn't really care
much about the car. He has two other Cutlasses: a '69 Hardtop and
another 70 F85. Unfortunately, he had already pinched the OAI hood and
rear deck lid/wing and installed them on his other 70.  And he really
likes these items, so no way I can get them. :^(

So I asked him about selling the car. He says he'd sell, but he's not
sure about letting its 12-bolt C-type posi rearend (didn't know the
ratio) go with it. I said I could sure use that rear end, as I have yet
to find some 31-spline C-clip axles for my Texas 3.55 unit. He said he'd
think about a price for the whole car and for me to get back.

Then we took a few minutes to look at the 69 Cutlass. The guy bought
this car off of a corn field in NY for $450. He got the 350 running,
then commenced to a quickie body job. "There's 25 lb. of mud in that
thing," he said.

I commented that the color looks a lot like my 68's Teal blue. He said
that he and his buddy had been drinking all day before mixing the paint.
Said it didn't quite turn out the way he wanted, but he seemed glad I
liked it anyway.

His 350 had a Holley gracing its intake along with the usual chrome
Summit aircleaner (do they give these things away somewhere or what?
Seems *every* 60's used car I see has one. Or a gold Moroso, dude!). We
also noticed that he had some incorrect lh mirror. Okay, making a mental
note on items he'd probably like... maybe help loosen up that R350 a
bit! ;^)

We'll see what develops!

- -Darren Shroeger

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:28:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Ertle 1/18th H/O and 442

At 12:31 AM 10/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Here it is October 26th and I bought the Ertle 69 H/O and 442 W-30.
>They are beautiful, and pretty correct in detail.  Both cars have
different >wheels and different type exhaust systems.

I saw them today and the 69 H/O's wheels are dark gray like the 442
W-30. They should be painted gold on the H/O, yes/no?

Nick DiGiovanni
1970 4-4-2
Port Coquitlam, B.C.

------------------------------

From: jev114@email.psu.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:29:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Question

they always sell them at big swap meets also

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:49:48 -0400
Subject: Intake Gaskets

     Looks like the time has come for an intake gasket on my 307.  I
know
     this is a very common failure, and want to know if anyone here has
any
     personal preference for the brand of gasket used (Fel-pro, Victor,
     etc), and any tricks to help seal it.  I've heard of the
     dab-of-silicone in the corners where the front meets the heads
trick
     (which is where mine is leaking, so that trick probably would have
     helped).  Any others?

     I'm also half-thinking about slapping an Edelbrock Performer intake
on
     there while I have the thing apart, since the cost of the manifold
is
     (to me) just about the same as my what my weekend is worth to fix
this
     leak.  And since I have it off I mightaswell. . .  Does anyone have

     any personal experience with this manifold?  I know it'll fit, and
     keep all my stock emissions stuff since I've seen one installed,
but
     the guy wasn't around to ask how well it worked.

     Thanks!

     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:13:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Ertle 1/18th H/O and 442

Nick,
No!!! They should be the color they are on the car.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:35:13 -0400
Subject: Re: id for motor

>From the info you gave in your last letter,  I think you said that the
>numbers on the oil fill tube started with a "4".  The first number on
the >tube indicates the production year of the engine,  provided it is
the >original tube!  This would indicate a 1974 350.  The "8" on the
head by the >#1 plug indicate 1973 to 1976 350 heads.  Reinforcing the
fact that it >could be a 1974 motor.  The big number 2 by the oil
sending unit means 350.

I believe blocks with casting number 395558 were only cast from
1968-1972. I could be mistaken, however.  It is an early 350, anyway.
Sounds like #8 heads, which were cast from 1973-1976.  Not good heads
for performance.  Low compression, big combustion chambers. - -- Dave
Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida
1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:51:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Some GM history

> Speaking of that Caddy V8, I recall reading somewhere that one
demonstration > shown, to prove its technological advance from all other
engines at the time, > was that Cadillac had several engines (4?) broken
down, and reassembled with > parts from each going into each, then
firing them up successfully to the > astoundment of the viewers!  I
guess interchangeability was something > unheard-of up to that point...

You're right, Tim.  The Dewar Trophy was awarded to Cadillac in 1909 for
the results of a Standardization Test.  This event, conducted by the
Royal Automobile Club, involved the disassembly of 3 randomly chosen
cars.  The dismantling process was rather thorough; pistons were
separated from rods, as were rings from pistons.  The resultant 2000+
parts were then carefully shuffled.  In addition, a committee selected
89 parts to be replaced by off-the-shelf stock.  The reassembled cars
operated perfectly - top speed and fuel consumption remained the same.
At this time, Britain regarded American products as poorly finished and
not built to last.  The Dewar Trophy did much to popularize the American
car there and around the world.

> The last of the RWD Broughams (FWIW, 'Fleetwood' is almost like an
option > package, which could be had on the FWD and RWD platforms) were
LT1 powered. > My '88 Brougham had an Olds 307, dunno what the last year
for using that > was.  Kevin? :)

1985 was the last year you could buy a RWD Cadillac with a Cadillac
engine (HT4100! :O).  The Olds 307, standard equipment from '86 till '90
was a vast improvement, offering superior torque and durability.  A Ch*v
350 (code L05) was made optional from 1990 to 1992, and standard in
1993.  A Ch*v 305 became standard in 1991 due to the discontinuation of
the Olds powerplant.  I guess that under GM's modern philosophy to
amalgamate most engine development, it would be more appropriate to
cease referring to engines based on their divisional lineage, and
designate everything as a corporate engine! :)  Note that the revised
for '96 Quad 4 now bears a 'Twin Cam' label (must be familiar to T*y*ta
owners), and advertising makes no reference to its Olds heritage.

Kevin Wong
'83 Delta 88 (Olds 307)
'88 Brougham (VIN Y 307)

------------------------------

From: "Spud" <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:31:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds sighting(Grace)

Rethinking my last post on this, I'l wonder if the trunk says "B O N N E
 V I L L E" across it.  My taping this week will tell the tale.

>Timothy wrote:

>> At 05:08 PM 10/25/96 -0300, Brad Baker wrote:
>> >On the show Grace Under Fire, the car is definitely a Pontiac,most
>> >likely a Catalina, and probably a '67.

>Never saw the show, I'll have to watch the opening credits for this
>Poncho. And then switch back to whatever worthwhile show I had on :)



Tim (Whose First Car Was a '67 Catalina) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'


Spud	"Fart proudly."
'86 FXST
'73 Olds Delta 88 Royale
'79 Chry Le Baron T&C wagon

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:50:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor advice wanted

At 12:25 PM 10/28/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I think my distributor advance may be broken/off/wrong.  The engine
>runs just fine if I accellerate lightly, but when I step on it the
>engine bogs down and then lugs slowly up to speed.  I think this is
>because the distributor doesn't advance the timing enough (at all?).
>Am I right about this?  What else might cause it?

I am 99.9% sure that what you are describing is an incredible secondary
bog on your quadrajet carb (you have a 4-barrel, right? If not, then
stop reading now...). Your secondary air valve spring either has broken
or loosened up, causing the bog. It either has to be replaced or
tightened.

A distributor problem would not cause a bog; a loss of power, perhaps,
but not a bog.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:59:24 -0400
Subject: TRACTION LOCK ID TAG

Where exactaly does the traction lock ID tag go on the W 27 rear end?
Thanks
Brad
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:58:05 -0400
Subject: W35 OPTION

I have heard of the W 35 option, but what exactaly is it.  I have a '70
442 with some W30 parts (OAI hood, rear fin) but does that make it a
W35?
Brad
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:04:32 -0400
Subject: 454 CONVERSION???

My friend (Who has a lot to learn about the potential of the Olds 455)
has a 69 Cutlass Supreme.  The motor is currently a 455 w/400 heads and
small block exhaust manifold.  He feels that it is easier to build up a
454 and drop it into the car insted of getting the correct 455 parts.
But (accroding to other mail) isn't the 454 a bigger and heavier motor
than the 455?  Now, will that fit into a car not originally designed to
hold such a motor without extensive modification?
Thanks
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:06:49 -0400
Subject: CORRECT WINDSHIELD WASHER BOTTLE COLOR

What is the correct windshield washer bottle color for a 70 442 made in
Lansing?
Year One sells both Black and White, and sais that the color depends on
where it was built.  So what is my color?
Thanks
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:18:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Ertle 1/18th H/O and 442

At 08:13 PM 10/28/96 -0400, Art Fuller wrote:
>Nick,
>No!!! They should be the color they are on the car.

You are correct, Art.  I missread the book I have where it says, "They
have a chrome outer rim (not trim ring) and were painted Argent Silver.
Many were repainted Hurst Gold in the center by dealers and owners."
Thanks,

Nick DiGiovanni
1970 4-4-2
Port Coquitlam, B.C.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:31:18 -0400
Subject: Re: CORRECT WINDSHIELD WASHER BOTTLE COLOR

Brad,
Put a white bottle in your car.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:33:31 -0400
Subject: Re: W35 OPTION

At 10:58 PM 10/28/96 -0400, Brad wrote:
>I have heard of the W 35 option, but what exactaly is it.  I have a '70
 >442 with some W30 parts (OAI hood, rear fin) but does that make it a
>W35?

W35 is the Rear-Deck Spoiler option.  If your car has the OAI hood (W25)
and Air Cleaner Assembly then it is a W25 car and should have W25
striping on the side, not the same as the W30/31.  The striping on the
hood is identical, however.

Nick DiGiovanni
1970 4-4-2 W25, W26, W27 cover, W35
Port Coquitlam, B.C.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:34:14 -0400
Subject: Re: W35 OPTION

Brad,
The W35 is the spoiler option that you say you already have on  the car.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:49:15 -0400
Subject: '85 4-4-2 prod. #s

Would like to know the production numbers for the '85 4-4-2.
Can anyone help me out on this?

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Syntac@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:49:10 -0400
Subject: Re: 78 & up Cutlass Gauges FOR SALE

         Do you have a 1983 rallye pack instrument panel for Cutlass!
Specifically looking for an OEM tachometer that goes in this panel?

------------------------------

From: Gerald Gibson <gibson@webgate.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:48:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 454 CONVERSION???

Brad Bowles wrote:
>
> My friend (Who has a lot to learn about the potential of the Olds 455)
> has a 69 Cutlass Supreme.  The motor is currently a 455 w/400 heads
and > small block exhaust manifold.  He feels that it is easier to build
up a > 454 and drop it into the car insted of getting the correct 455
parts. > But (accroding to other mail) isn't the 454 a bigger and
heavier motor > than the 455?  Now, will that fit into a car not
originally designed to > hold such a motor without extensive
modification? > Thanks > Brad > 70 442

     Brad,

     The 454 will drop and bolt right in without any problems
whatsoever.  I've done it with a 68 442 of a friends.  Also, I hate to
admit it but it is a lot easier to build up and get parts for a 454.
Hope this helps.

              Gerald Gibson
              gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:30:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Ertle 1/18th H/O and 442

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
>
> Nick,
> No!!! They should be the color they are on the car.
>
> Art Fuller


My 69 H/O literature states some dealers painted the SS II wheels gold
instead of the standard gray.  I bought my 69 H/O in 1979 and the
wheels were painted gold. Disclaimer:  It had been repainted, but when
the top layer of paint chipped off in several places the paint right
above the primer was firefrost gold. One of the H/O facts or myths, you
choose.  If anyone has better information I'd love to hear it.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:01:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 454 CONVERSION???

In a message dated 96-10-28 22:27:00 EST, you write:

>My friend (Who has a lot to learn about the potential of the Olds 455)
>has a 69 Cutlass Supreme.  The motor is currently a 455 w/400 heads and
 >small block exhaust manifold.  He feels that it is easier to build up
a >454 and drop it into the car insted of getting the correct 455
parts. >But (accroding to other mail) isn't the 454 a bigger and
heavier motor >than the 455?  Now, will that fit into a car not
originally designed to >hold such a motor without extensive
modification? >Thanks >Brad >70 442

Well let's see, to swap engines, you'd need chevy brackets, an adapter
for the transmission, various linkages, new motor mounts, probably new
head pipes for the different exhaust arangement, possiblely(sp) a new
fan shroud... the 454 is heavier than a 455 Olds, esp. if the Olds is
given an aluminum intake.

A set of headers and 2.25" duals or better would really wake up the
motor. Is the 455 in good shape mechanically? If it is, then it would
definetly be cheaper to build it than to build a new chevy or buy a
rebuilt engine. DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:52:14 -0400
Subject: Re: '85 4-4-2 prod. #s

According to my 442 Databook and Price guide from 1986 there were 3000
produced.


At 06:49 PM 10/28/96 -0400, Glenn Connors wrote:
>Would like to know the production numbers for the '85 4-4-2.
>Can anyone help me out on this?
>
>Glenn
>'69 4-4-2
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State University
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High
Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Bradley Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:53:26 -0400
Subject: Re: W35 OPTION

At 02:58 AM 10/29/96 +0000, you wrote:
>I have heard of the W 35 option, but what exactaly is it.  I have a '70
 >442 with some W30 parts (OAI hood, rear fin) but does that make it a
>W35? >Brad >'70 442

Brad,
The '70 W35 option code refers to the rear wing.
Brad Otto
'69 442 Convertible
4 Speed, 3.91

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:53:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 454 CONVERSION???

 He feels that it is easier to build up a
>>454 and drop it into the car insted of getting the correct 455 parts.


>Also, I hate to
>admit it but it is a lot easier to build up and get parts for a 454.
>Hope this helps.
>
          (Which is good, because they ~need~ them!)

My bone stock Buick and my ~nearly~ bone stock rocket has smoked many
well-built bowties.  Havre has roughly 10000 people, and very potent car
clubs in it, and the Rockit has repeatedly earned the fastest daily
driver title.  There's a GTO around that's faster (one of my best
friends) and it's a daily driver, but he doesn't drive it very often.
The Rockit is out AM/PM/winter/summer/rain/snow/always!  No bowtie in
this area can lay claim to that and be anywhere close to me in the
quarter ~or~ the stoplight.  I think that's a big claim, and yes, I'm
~very~ proud of that fact :)  I've been up against many of the "can't be
beaten" bowties because they've got so much aftermarket in there.  I've
never been beaten by a chevy, and that's a fact.  (Keep in mind, the
Rockit's never seen an ~official~ quarter mile track, just street cars
on the highway) but I don't think that is much of a factor.  Many
all-out drag chevys would eat me up, I'm sure, but they couldn't make it
through the nightly cruise schedule I run through :)  Also, I've ~never~
ran headers or slicks, either.

The moral of the story is that sure, chevy is cheaper to build, but the
Olds (and Buick and Pontiac for that matter) are much easier to milk
horses out of.  They also give you bragging rights on this list:)
     Some may cry "sour grapes" but I guarantee you all that on ~this~
issue, I'm not the one making ~any~ whine!!!  :)

~~~~~~~subliminal message~~~~~  don't buy bowtie~!~~~~~~  If this isn't
enough of an arguement to that philosophy, just go watch ~any~ chevy guy
(or girl, ya know PC and all!) change out a set of spark plugs on their
wonderful little mouse, ~especially~ if they have headers (which, of the
racers, they all do, it seems!)

     Enuff of HP101 for now.  Class dismissed!


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:58:35 -0400
Subject: Carb faq's and id

I just checked the FAQ just in case, but found a big blank, so I'll ask
all. Does anyone know of or have access to a comprehensive listing of
carburator casting #s?  It would be kind of interesting to know what
half of my collection came off of, and what (by numbers) would work
closest for certain applications.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:24:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo

Chris,
Mine (in my '68) wobbles at high speeds (not that I do anything
like that at all, OH NO, not me!).  Probably old cables in my case,
not sure about you.

Craig.

>Date:		Mon, 28 Oct 1996 14:56:59 -0400
>From:	Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject:	Re: Speedo
>
>Gang,
>
>I just got my speedometer fixed and noticed that it wobble +/- 5
mph when I
> am
>driving.  Is this normal?
>
>Chris Sparks
>

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 06:24:46 -0400
Subject: Re: CORRECT WINDSHIELD WASHER BOTTLE COLOR

My '68 was built in Oshawa and has a black washer bottle. Not a good
choice since you can't tell how much fluid is in there...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:55:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Urgent Help =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B470?= 98

Your friend's 1970 98 convertible has a 455 V8 which came with a
quadrajet 4 barrel and probably single exhaust. These motors are as
common as dirt in America, but probably rare in Germany. cf


>Hello all,
>a friend from Tchechoslovakia is visiting us here in Germany and is
looking >for an Olds engine for his car, a 1970  =B498 Convertible
because his engin= e >is down. > >Problem is:  He doesn=B4t know which
engine he has in his car!!!! > >What he does know is the VIN-Code (or
most of it): > >        384 67 (0? or D?) M 244 652 > >I=B4m rather
strong in =B450=B4s Olds but don=B4t know anything about =B470= =B4s. >
>Anybody out there who can tell me what engine is supposed to belong to
>that car? > >Thanks, Roland

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 06:53:45 -0400
Subject: (Fwd) Question

Chris, I can help you out with the decals that you need, send me a note
at the address below.


cooler ta cruise,                               _   _
                                                _| | |
        Mark Cornea  (Dr. Decal) - `70 442 \/\/ _| |_|

             (MCORNEA@pt8228.pto.ford.com)






- --- Forwarded mail from oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

Date: 	Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:03:37 -0400
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From: Who <sage@204.248.93.5>
Subject: Question
Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

I just bought a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 Rocket 2 bbl motor.
Where can i find a replacement 350 Rocket sticker for the air cleaner. I
have been looking all over for one. Any direction would be great.

Thanks

Chris





- ---End of forwarded mail from oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:08:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor advice wanted

first, take off the cap and rotor. Then, inspect the weights for freedom
of movement and check the springs for equal tension. You may also want
to look at the vacuum advance diaphragm. this will require a hand held
vacuum pump (around $15). Lube the weights with something, oil, silicone
gease, etc. if they are rusty or stiff. Don't use a lot. I had these
problems on my 65 330 motor when i first got it. It had been sitting in
storage for 20 some-odd years with nothing done to it.It's pretty easy.
Also, you can buy weight replacement kits that comes with new springs of
various tensions. I now use the lightest springs. motor runs GOOD ! Good
Luck !!!!

Katana72

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #346
********************************
 
