To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/07/96 04:39:02 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #323


oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 7 October 1996       Volume 01 : Number 323


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 09:18:59 -0300
Subject: Re: November Car craft 

     I noticed that too, but I'm not going to complain because I'm glad 
     they at least thought of him when the called in their "experts".  I 
     think the reason he seemed to disagree so much was because to him a 
     "Small Block" is an Olds engine, and to everyone else it's a SBC.  The 
     Olds engine isn't the same, and doesn't respond to performance mods 
     exactly like other engines.  It likes different camshafts, needs more 
     help on the exhaust side of the heads, etc.
     
     I wish the car magazines would wake up and stop 
     Chevy-Camaro-Mustanging us to death.
     
     [soapbox mode off]
     
     Tom L.
     
     
______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: November Car craft
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET 
Date:    10/5/96 6:35 PM
     
I was just reading the pro engine building secrets in this months Car = 
Craft and what I surprise Joe Mondello seems to consistantly dis agree = 
with some of the top engine builders in the country on what works and = 
what doesn't. Now why doesn' t that surprise me?

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:45:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Anyone in my Area?

DrkSole wrote:
>Is Des Moines closer than Chicago? (to St. Louis)
I think they are about the same distance, give or take an hour (depending on 
what part of the city you are heading).

>74 Dodge Monaco sedan. 440
You know it!
<snip>
"It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, cop tires cop suspension, cop 
shocks.  It's a model made before catalytic converters, so it'll run good on 
regular gas."
I love that movie.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:45:00 -0300
Subject: Cars and Parts ads

Yesterday, I posted a number of ads that appeared in the  back of Cars and 
Parts and did not see it in the digest.  Does anyone know if it posted?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:01:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Questions

You can find hopped up switch pitch converters I believe from T/A 
Performance or Poston enterprises..one of them Buick vendors, I think 
it's T/A.  They have ones where they modify it to have a lower low stall 
and a higher high stall, like 1300/4000 or something like that. 

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:36:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Anyone in my Area? 

In a message dated 96-10-06 15:59:30 EDT, you write:

>>74 Dodge Monaco sedan. 440
>You know it!
><snip>
>"It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, cop tires cop suspension, cop

>shocks.  It's a model made before catalytic converters, so it'll run good on

>regular gas."
>I love that movie.
 And to make it valid to the list;
 "New Oldsmobiles are in early this year!"

DrkSole
 73 Cultass Supreme
 67 Delta88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: PGAFFER@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:37:21 -0300
Subject: Insurance for a Cutless Supreme 442  1971 

Who is a good insurer of classic cars?

------------------------------

From: PGAFFER@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:35:52 -0300
Subject: Gas Pedal 

My gas pedal came off a few years ago (Cutless Supreme 442 '1971). I want to
put it back on but I noticed that I need a spring. What parts do I need to
put my gas pedal back on and where can I get these parts?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:56:50 -0300
Subject: RE: Insurance for a Cutless Supreme 442  1971 

>Who is a good insurer of classic cars?

Why this question asked every month?

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: PGAFFER@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:08:11 -0300
Subject: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972 

My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
Chicago area?

------------------------------

From: PGAFFER@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:13:53 -0300
Subject: Cutless Supreme 442 1972- rear fender bumpers 

Who is the best source (price) of rear bumpers?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:29:17 -0300
Subject: RE: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972 

>My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
>I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
>Chicago area?

My '72 Cutlass Cruiser doesn't have a cloak either.  But I'm not a Klingon 
either.  Art, does your wagon have one?

check out this month's JWO on how to get parts and how to install them.

Roger Borlase
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/local/

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:41:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Cars and Parts ads 

> Yesterday, I posted a number of ads that appeared in the  back of Cars and
> Parts and did not see it in the digest.  Does anyone know if it posted?
>

Yes, it was posted. I've seen that happen before; some messages for some
reason don't make the digest. Are we being edited, Greg?

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: jlott@island.net (janice lott)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:44:32 -0300
Subject: OLDS PARTS 

WHO CAN TELL ME WHERE TO FIND PARTS FOR MY 75 442-I NEED FLOOR PANS AND
REARE QUARTERS. I NEED AN E-MAIL, HTTP SITE OR COMPANY NAME ASAP TO GET
PARTS FROM. YOU MAY E MAIL ME DIRECT AT JLOTT@ISLAND.NET. KEEP IN MIND , I
LIVE IN CANADA, SO ANY RELATIVELY LOCAL PARTS SOURCES ARE A BONUS. J

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:47:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance for a Cutless Supreme 442  1971 

> Who is a good insurer of classic cars?

Hagerty Insurance of Traverse City, Michigan. They are known nationally as
*the* classic car insurance specialist; lots of famous clients, etc. They even
show up at the local car shows with a pristine 57 T-bird in an enclosed
trailer.

They were mentioned on the list a while back. The phone # is 616.941.7477,
and there is also a toll-free no. which is not in my Traverse City phone book.

Hope this helps you out...

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:48:09 -0300
Subject: RE: November Car craft

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB3AE.C2EB42E0
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You wrote:

     I noticed that too, but I'm not going to complain because I'm glad=20
     they at least thought of him when the called in their "experts".  I =

     think the reason he seemed to disagree so much was because to him a =

     "Small Block" is an Olds engine, and to everyone else it's a SBC.  =
The=20
     Olds engine isn't the same, and doesn't respond to performance mods =

     exactly like other engines.  It likes different camshafts, needs =
more=20
     help on the exhaust side of the heads, etc.
    =20
     I wish the car magazines would wake up and stop=20
     Chevy-Camaro-Mustanging us to death.
    =20
	You are write on one account Tom the Olds is a bit different, but on =
the other side its still an internal combustion engine that responds =
much like any other to tuning.=20
	Joe Mondello made his reputation about 30 years ago on Chevy's as well 
=
as other engines and then got into Olds  because he saw that there was =
an opportunity to corner a segment of the market. I don't think someone =
with his background would specifically talk about Olds when asked about =
engines in general. I believe that a lot of Mondello's ideas are dated =
and that he has given up developing any new technology and research.



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------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:41:10 -0300
Subject: Verne's Plating 

Lisa,
The address for Verne's is 

1559 El Segundo Blvd
Gardena, CA., 90249
(213) 754-4126

I had a 66 rear 98 bumper done by him as well as my armrests from the 66 98 
conv. He joked on delivery of the bumper that he should have charged me by the 
pound. The armrests came out just great, he even softened some of the sharp 
edges 
a bit and tastefully in my opinion. Still look great 9 years later!
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:49:14 -0300
Subject: Qjet Manuals 

Bob Handren,
I saved some of your old posts on how to get the qjet manuals from GM, but from
what I have it seems they need 2 transactions: 1) to get the manual ordering
form and 2) to use the form to actually order the books.

Is it possible to do this in one transaction? Also, if possible do you know
what the charges are for the books in binders complete shipped to my door? I'm
unclear whehter it's $15, $36, 15+36, or 15+36+S/H. 

Sorry to bring up this topic from so long ago, but these are books I could 
*really* use. I'm running a holley now because I haven't found a good 
educational
resource on the qjet. Also 'twould be interesting to read about Roch. fuel 
injection.

thanks for your help!
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:51:41 -0300
Subject: Rotor Thickness 

Went to the junkyard yesterday and found some what I think are nice rotors from
a 70 '88. It was junked under the clunker law apparently because someone had
written BAAQMD (Bay Area Air Quality Management District) on the windshield.

Does a minimum thickness of 1.215 (as I _think_ the rotor reads) feel right to
you all? Just a sanity check. I will have them mic'd by my brake shop, just
want to know what their reading means in terms of my future ability to use and
/or turn these rotors.
thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:55:44 -0300
Subject: Tires & Gears 

I'm running P 225/75 R15 tires on my 98 and have been thinking about a gear
change. Does anyone know offhand what the outside diameter of these tires is
and what the change from 2.73 to 3.23 might do to RPM and mileage. 

Any comments on increase in offline performance with similar parts would
be appreciated too. I'm trying to figger out if changing would be a good
thing for my 98. Was thinking a bit more chirp would be fun, if it didn't
kill the mileage. Which is currently at about 11mpg around town on my big
Holley that's jetted rich to run cool.

thanks!
cf

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:51:01 -0300
Subject: Is 3.23 the max. rear gear for use with A/C? 

In debating in my mind what rear gear to go behind my modified 403 (I had
narrowed it down to between 3.23 and 3.42), one thing about Olds musclecars
came to interest me...

Does anyone know whether there were sound engineering reasons for not
offering any steeper rear gear than a 3.23 on A/C equipped cars?
(non-overdrive, of course) Would putting 3.42's or higher in my car and
driving 80mph with the A/C for extended lengths of time (ya know, in
Montana... ;), trash the compressor unit? Is there some specified max rpm
for these units than anyone on this list is aware of? Any personal experience?

If it were granted that 3.23's were the max gears for use in an A/C car,
then does anyone know of an underdrive pulley setup, either factory or
aftermarket, for an Olds motor?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:51:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972 

At 05:08 PM 10/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
>I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
>Chicago area?

Well, any good costume shop should have a wide assortment of cloaks, capes
and smoking jackets. You better act fast, though, since Halloween is around
the corner...

;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:02:06 -0300
Subject: RE: Tires & Gears 

>I'm running P 225/75 R15 tires on my 98 and have been thinking about a gear
>change. Does anyone know offhand what the outside diameter of these tires is
>and what the change from 2.73 to 3.23 might do to RPM and mileage. 

More rpm, so lower mileage.  But we're not in this for fuel economy, right?

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:43:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance for a Cutless Supreme 442  1971

Might be tough as I have never seen a Cutless:) or a Camero for that matter...

At 05:37 PM 10/6/96 -0300, PGAFFER@aol.com wrote:
>Who is a good insurer of classic cars?
>
>
>
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...daily driver I get in trouble with
81 Camaro.....................waiting for a big block chevy
75 Hurst/Olds W-25....restoration project
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:46:41 -0300
Subject: Re: OLDS PARTS

Look at the Paddok, Inc out of Indiana for the floor pans. Order a Chevelle
catalog and the pans for a 73-77 Chevelle, El Camino will fit.
(1-800-428-4319). You will pay dearly for rear quarters as the only way I
know to get them is to have them custom made. 

At 06:44 PM 10/6/96 -0300, janice lott wrote:
>WHO CAN TELL ME WHERE TO FIND PARTS FOR MY 75 442-I NEED FLOOR PANS AND
>REARE QUARTERS. I NEED AN E-MAIL, HTTP SITE OR COMPANY NAME ASAP TO GET
>PARTS FROM. YOU MAY E MAIL ME DIRECT AT JLOTT@ISLAND.NET. KEEP IN MIND , I
>LIVE IN CANADA, SO ANY RELATIVELY LOCAL PARTS SOURCES ARE A BONUS. J
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...daily driver I get in trouble with
81 Camaro.....................waiting for a big block chevy
75 Hurst/Olds W-25....restoration project
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:41:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Cars and Parts ads

On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Darren Shroeger wrote:
> > Yesterday, I posted a number of ads that appeared in the  back of Cars and
> > Parts and did not see it in the digest.  Does anyone know if it posted?

Jeff, they *are* in there... some in digest #321, another post in #322. 
Take another look.

> Yes, it was posted. I've seen that happen before; some messages for some
> reason don't make the digest. Are we being edited, Greg?

Actually it's more likely that a message won't make it here than to the 
digest from what I've seen. Digest is working pretty good these days. 

Edited?!? Surely you jest... if this was being edited, well, let's just 
say I wouldn't be editing _Jeff's_ posts!  ;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:40:18 -0300
Subject: Rochester Carb Book 

I found a Q-Jet book that's fairly all-inclusive on the Q-jets. I has a trick
section in it and some history on the Q-jet. It also has some other Rochester
carbs in it, which would be helpful to the one's which have the two barrel
carbs. I got the book at Pep Boys in Va. Beach, Va., where I used to live. It
is printed by HP Books and is titled "Rochester Carburetors" (imagine that!!
 :)  )  on the cover and the leading page is titled " Tune, Rebuild, or
Modify Rochester Carburetors"  the address is 11150 Olympic Blvd. ,  6th
floor, Los Angeles, Ca. 90064  isbn# 0-89586-301-4  Library of Congress #
86-81204. What I didn't pick up from my mentor, Ray Hauser, the book has
taught me. Good Luck all




Katana72                 It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!
     Hastings, MN 

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:43:20 -0300
Subject: Re: OLDS PARTS 

In a message dated 96-10-06 17:50:19 EDT, you write:

>
>WHO CAN TELL ME WHERE TO FIND PARTS FOR MY 75 442-I NEED FLOOR PANS AND
>REARE QUARTERS. I NEED AN E-MAIL, HTTP SITE OR COMPANY NAME ASAP TO GET
>PARTS FROM. YOU MAY E MAIL ME DIRECT AT JLOTT@ISLAND.NET. KEEP IN MIND , I
>LIVE IN CANADA, SO ANY RELATIVELY LOCAL PARTS SOURCES ARE A BONUS. J
>
>
>

I believe that Sherman and Associates have rear quarters. Their number is
810-774-8297 and FAX is 810-774-7361

DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon:)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:52:31 -0300
Subject: RE: Rochester Carb Book 

> :)  )  on the cover and the leading page is titled " Tune, Rebuild, or
>Modify Rochester Carburetors"  the address is 11150 Olympic Blvd. ,  6th
>floor, Los Angeles, Ca. 90064  isbn# 0-89586-301-4  Library of Congress #
>86-81204. What I didn't pick up from my mentor, Ray Hauser, the book has
>taught me. Good Luck all

It is interesting that you sent this message.  You see, I'm writing a database 
project that simulates a library.  I added this book to collection.  I need 
some borrowers.  Would any of y'all like to be one?

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Bull@axon.axnet.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:08:56 -0300
Subject: 1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme

I own a 1970 cutlass supreme and am looking to get the following parts

Left and Right Front Fenders
Rear Wheel Clips ( another name can't recall)
Passenger Side door
Bucket Seat Covers

  I am restoring my 1970 cutlass supreme.  I am the original owner and
want to make the car as close to new as possible.  Thank you for your
time.

            Henry Schneider

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:23:53 -0300
Subject: RE: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972

Roger,
I just walked out to look at my wagon, and it didn't have a cloak either. 
Looked 
at my convertible, no cloak. Of course, they didn't put cloaks in convertibles.

Art

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:35:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972

>My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
>I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
>Chicago area?
>
>
Could you clue us in to whether this is a clock or a choke that you are
refering to. I'm sure this is an accidental misspelling.  Your clarification
would be helpful.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:56:40 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

In a message dated 96-10-04 23:26:51 EDT, you write:

>  Is his a '72?  Looks early 70's or 
>  late '60's by the rear tailight assembly.

Yeah, I think it was.

Paul

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:03:47 -0300
Subject: Switch-Pitch Convertors 

>>From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
>>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:25:35 -0300
>>Subject: Questions 

>>I was wondering if the switch pitch converters in TH400s are different from
>>the switch pitch in the Jetaway? (diameter and RPM ranges)I am looking for
>>a converter for the Apprehender with slightly higher stall than the
>>original one but still want to retain the switch pitch feature.

>>Do any aftermarket vendors have switch pitch converters? I have already
>>checked with B&M and they dont.

Bryce:

The '67 W-30 TH-400's used the Jetaway converter.  Yes, providing you use a
version from a switch pitch Jetaway.  The very effect you seek is why they
were used in '67.  The one I have, which is from a junkyard Jetaway gives me
25-2800+ rpm when flashed in the loose/high pitch position.

Kenne-Bell used to sell kits which included the front pump, solenoid, wiring
and converter.  I suspect they still may.  

I haven't needed to replace mine (yet) but I have been told that any shop
that can rebuild a fixed stator convertor can also rebuild a switch-pitch
version, assuming no destructive failures I presume.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:03:57 -0300
Subject: Disk Brakes 

>>Thanks for the info! My father-in-law has a 66' 442 and we compared the
>>spindles on his car versus a 69' Cutlass disc spindle and the 69' is
><about a half-inch longer than the 66'. Do you feel that this swap is
>>still valid into your 67' like you want to do? I'm concerned over the
>>possible caster and camber problems.

>>Dave Holgate
>>(holgate@juno.com)

I honestly don't know Dave.  But two points.

At the OCA meet last year a fellow with a '66 W-30 had disks installed, they
appeared to be the '69-'72 version.  They were not the 4 piston type as best
I can remember.

There's quite a bit of adjustment but you sure can run up against some
problems. A half inch doesn't seem a lot but......    I'd love to increase
the positive caster. A slightly longer spindle might allow that.  

GIven the improved stopping power, which I sorely need for a car which can
run low 11's, I plan to take the chance.  The drum brakes didn't stop it when
new and they aren't any better with age.  

Although they are very similar, there are differences between the 64-67 and
68-72 front suspensions.  The most apparent are the differences in shock
installation.  The tops of 64-67 shocks are installed higher above the frame.
 But I believe the ball joint diameters are the same so the spindles should
bolt in.

When I get around to it I will definitely let everyone know whether it was
easy, hard or impossible.  I doubt the last very much.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:03:58 -0300
Subject: Proportioning Valves 

>>What concerns me in the proportioning valve.  I left this open to the
>>atmosphere (didn't know any better at the time) and I'm afraid it's junk by
>>now.  There seems to be no way of opening these up to clean them out.  <<

If total originality is not an issue, don't kill yourself trying to find an
original valve which may or may not be correct, or work properly for that
matter.  Particliarly if you are using custom wheels, tires or modified
suspension.  All these things can change the "balance" between front and rear
braking requirements.

There are several sources of adjustable proportioning valves.  Install one of
those and you can adjust the front/rear brake bias to match the demands of
your car.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:22:01 -0300
Subject: another request for pic

Hey group, 
             Still looking for a pic of a close to correct engine
compartment of a '69                4-4-2.  If you got one on file, please
send.  If not, does anyone know of               a publication in color that
I can reference.

Thanks,
Glenn
  

    4      4      22222
   44     44          2
  4 4    4 4        22
 44444  44444     22
    4     4      22222

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:24:37 -0300
Subject: Re: NEED PART HELP 

>Good Day Folks:
>Mine was not that good, It seems that my nephew was bored today,
>and decided to play baseball...
>BUT..
>He was using my 69 Cutlass S passenger side marker light for a ball :(..
>
>I still can't beleive or see how but, he didn't touch the fender at all.
>
>But the marker light is WASTED..:(
>
>If anyone has one to get rid of I sure would appreciate it..
>
>Let Me Know PLEASE.
>
>Include the amount you want and how you want to send it..
>
>Thanks In Advance..
>
>Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
>1982 Cutlass Supreme (455)
>1969 Cutlass S (NOW WOUNDED) :(:(:(:(:(.......
>
>If the marker light in question is the same as a Toro I have a couple of
spares which are yours for the cost of postage. Let me know

ps. hope you wounded his rear end for being so careless!
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:30:16 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Delta 88 on film 

>Hi. I anyone want's to see Beige 73 Delta 88 4drhdtp in  different movies
>should check out any movie made by Director Sam Raimi. His first commercial
>film was the horror classic "The Evil Dead", low budget, and predictable, but
>still cool. In it college kids take a vacation in the woods and get there in
>a 73 88, Sam's car, which was used due to budget limitations. Afterwords it
>made cameo apperances in other films of his. list is as follows-
>Evil Dead- Shots of car driving, great frontal view.
>Evil Dead 2:Dead by Dawn: Car is chased by demon, gets run into tree, then
>falls from sky and is totaled.
>Army Of Darkness, aka Evil Dead 3,-Car appears again, engine is removed on
>screen(Actual Olds V8)      and car is then turned into steam powered Death
>Coaster(really cool)
>CrimeWave-final 5-10 Min car chase is 88 followed by bad guys, lot's of good
>shots of the car, get's totaled at end.
>DarkMan-when darkman is dangling from helicopter he is nearly run over by 88.
>
>Also, an 88 appears in the opening of "Newhart" 
>The Next Karate Kid- 70 442/Cutlass blown up in last scene.
>Anyone else know of Oldsmobiles on the silver screen?
>
>DrkSole
> 73 Cutlass supreme
> 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)
>  Deadite.
>
>In the movie On Golden pond they drive a 73 Olds 88, In dirty dancing they
are traveling to the Poconos in a 63 Olds 88 and in All the presidents men
as paul newman is in a telephone booth a 68 Toronado Airport limo drives by
in the background.
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:32:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question, plus rear disc brakes 

>In a message dated 96-10-03 19:50:50 EDT, you write:
>
>> 70's Caddy's (perhaps the Fleetwood?) were loosely based on 
>>       the G-body frame and could be caniballized for disc rear brakes. 
>
>Think that's the Seville.
>
>Paul
>
>PS - Started working for an Olds dealer in '87, traded lots of those XSs back
>then, should have bought some of them I guess.
>
>If looking for rear disks for 70's Toronado just find a 76-78 Eldorado,
they had disc brakes in the rear and it is a dead axle just like the
toro...make your life easy! will even have the correct proportioning valve etc!
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:59:08 -0300
Subject: More Disc (or Disk) Brakes 

Dave Holgate reported measuring a difference between spindle dimensions of
different year "A" bodies which then raised some concerns for me versus
installing a 71-72 set up on my '67.

I guess I must be getting older (I won't claim wiser) because I didn't wait
until I got to "When All Else Fails, Read The Directions."  Sorry if that
kicks me out of the male stereotype club. :-))  I still don't ask for
directions when I get lost.  

Anyway, I pulled out my trusty dusty hard copy parts books circa 1975 and lo
and behold I have seen the truth!

Would you believe that all 67-72 disc brake Olds F-85's (includes 442) use
the same spindles?  They are called "knuckles" in GM language.  The part
number is (more likely was) 405982.  They are the same for _all_ disc brake
installations, including the 4-piston version. Surprised me!  I suspect any
differences Dave found were different suppliers, maybe?  The parts books also
show some differences for Canadian built cars but not for disc brake
spindles/knuckles.

The upper control arms are the same for 65-72.  404124 RH and 404125 LH.

The lower control arms show two versions, 64-68 and 69-72.  However, the
lower ball joints are all the same.  I suspect the different part numbers are
the result of bushings, not arm differences.

So, any disc brake setup from that era should be a bolt-in.  And no unusual
alignment problems should arise either.

Cool.  Makes me a bunch happier I looked it up before I tore the car apart.

Maybe I should ask for directions next time?   

Nah!

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 00:44:34 -0300
Subject: Another Olds TV Sighting

Noticed that a new commercial for Mennen Speed Stick has a guy in a '69 
Cutlass convertible driving up to a batting cage... don't know if this is 
only a Canadian spot or not. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:08:52 -0300
Subject: Just A Lovely Day... (non-tech)

A great day here today, temp around 60 and sunny. Decided to go 
house-hunting in the Cutlass. Rolled the windows down to get that Holiday 
coupe look and away I went. People everywhere seemed to be in a great 
mood. Got lots of smiles and thumbs-up from people when they saw the car 
- - and I always love that. I decided to scout homes in the area of town I 
grew up in back in the 60's and it seemed appropriate to drive my '68 
there. I don't often get there and it sure brought back all kinds of nice 
memories. It was almost like going back in time being behind the wheel of 
the '68 and cruising thru neighborhoods that I used to play in as a kid 
back at that same time. Think maybe I might move back there...

The Olds ran great too which always makes me feel good. Acted the fool
peeling away from stoplights and blowing past cars on the highway,
listening to those secondaries moan... nothing like a Rocket V-8 to put a
smile on your face! Speaking of which, I drove past a used car lot and
thought I saw the face of a early '70s Cutlass in the back. It was closed
but I turned around and drove in. Found 2 interesting cars - especially
the prices. The place was a privateer used car lot and had a lot of
questionable-looking cars, probably nothing over $5K. There were 2 Olds. 

The Cutlass was a '72 S. From 40 feet it didn't look bad, but up close,
another story. Had a really bad paint job, was missing some trim, and
looked like it had been a teenager's ride or project for a while. 
Interior was basically nonexisent - seats all torn up, no headliner or
door panels, a real mess. Opened the hood and there was a 350 Rocket
2-barrel, 7a heads, painted Chevy orange. Everything else was painted
gloss black. At least it was painted ... a slight improvement over rust
but not much. Anyway, the kicker was the price on the thing:  $2995! Gotta
be out of their minds... the thing is that far away from being a parts
car. $995 might be too much.

Over on the other side of the lot I spot another 60's Olds. Walk over and
see "65" soaped on the window. Actually it's a '67 Delmont 88 4-door, the
guy doesn't know what he has. Kind of plain Jane but interesting. 82K
miles, not in bad shape at all. It was unlocked so I opened it up and took
a look inside. One tear in the drivers seat is the only obvious problem
inside, though there appeared to be some rust starting under the dash and
windshield junction. Body was solid and chrome was good too. I popped the
hood and what do I see but a dirty but very original looking 425-4 barrel,
complete with C heads and everything down to the "Super High Compression"
decal on the air cleaner. Wish I could have that engine... but the car had
this guy's favorite price of $2995 on it too.  Too much I think, but
definitely worth more than the Cutlass. Too bad it's a 4-door - if it was
half that price I might buy it! 

A fun way to pass a sunny Sunday...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:12:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: Cars and Parts ads 

> > reason don't make the digest. Are we being edited, Greg?
>
> Edited?!? Surely you jest... if this was being edited, well, let's just
> say I wouldn't be editing _Jeff's_ posts!  ;-)

Jest trying to get yer goat, Greg! ;^)

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:33:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Olds Area meet 

Sorry I missed the meeting after all that talk and planning.  One of my kids
was sick and I was on duty.  So I hope you all had a great time and will
someone be reporting the results?

David Wilk

Bad day:  one kid sick, another bored and irritable to be stuck at home,
third one spending big bucks at the mall, and water heater blew Sunday at
8:00 pm, and so it goes...

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:33:36 -0300
Subject: Beautiful Sunday in Michigan, too 

Twas a completely gorgeous 75 degree sunny day here today...
Thought competing in a mountain bike race way would be a good way to
enjoy some painfully intense exercise while getting out of town a bit.

On the way to the race I spotted a '69 Cutlass parked in the driveway of
a mobile home. Course I had to stop in... the race didn't start for nearly
half an hour. The car was sporting a semi-recent repaint in Teal Blue,
the same color as my '68 442. Looks *sweet* with good paint!

Anyway, lurking in the woods next to the mobile home was a '70 post coupe!
Unfortunately, it was very rough... Sprayed in primer, interior and motor
gone. Went around back to check for 442 bumper (nope) but, what's this in the
trunk? A '70 W30/W31 OAI aircleaner complete with flapper door! Not even from
this car, as it had a plain old hood... So just "extra parts" to the guy?

bit sooner now!

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:14:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Just A Lovely Day... (non-tech)

> From: Greg Beaulieu 

> A great day here today, temp around 60 and sunny. Decided to go 
> house-hunting in the Cutlass. 

I did that in the Ninety-Eight today ... put over 300 miles on it.  A very
nice day, kind of felt like near the last day of summery driving up here in
Canada.  It always amazes me to get out of this city of 3+ million and into
the rural areas just to see how many people have older cars (of all makes)
out for sale or tucked away,  just barely visible.  And how many of them
have excellent workshops going too ...
Lots of nice cars on the road today ... 

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:30:21 -0300
Subject: Re: More Disc (or Disk) Brakes 

In a message dated 96-10-06 23:05:57 EDT, you write:

>
>Would you believe that all 67-72 disc brake Olds F-85's (includes 442) use
>the same spindles?  They are called "knuckles" in GM language.  The part
>number is (more likely was) 405982.  They are the same for _all_ disc brake
>installations, including the 4-piston version. Surprised me!  I suspect any
>differences Dave found were different suppliers, maybe?  The parts books
also
>show some differences for Canadian built cars but not for disc brake
>spindles/knuckles.
>
>The upper control arms are the same for 65-72.  404124 RH and 404125 LH.
>
>The lower control arms show two versions, 64-68 and 69-72.  However, the
>lower ball joints are all the same.  I suspect the different part numbers
are
>the result of bushings, not arm differences.
>
>So, any disc brake setup from that era should be a bolt-in.  And no unusual
>alignment problems should arise either.
>
>Cool.  Makes me a bunch happier I looked it up before I tore the car apart.
>
>Maybe I should ask for directions next time?   
>
>Nah!

Actually another swap that would work is swapping the spindle from a 73-77
A-body, 70-79 F-Body, or 75-79 X-body. These spindles will bolt right up, are
about 1 inch taller, better designed and give a handling advantage over the
64-72 spindles. This would allow a disk brake conversion, and would give a
handling advantage as well. This information comes from Hot Rod June, 1987.
Copies of the article are available from H-O Racing, mainly a pontiac outfit,
they also make suspensions. Number is(213)-973-7078.

DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:43:05 -0300
Subject: RE: Tires & Gears 

Roger,
thanks for your comments 

"More rpm, so lower mileage.  But we're not in this for fuel economy, right?"

Yeah, but what are the points on the trade off curve? I mean, my choices are 
2.56, 2.73, 2.93, 3.08 (stock on 98's) and 3.23. I' m  just trying to get 
sense of the mileage vs seat of the pants fun.

Any thoughts? Anyone else running 3.23 on their big olds? What's the story?
thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:44:01 -0300
Subject: Re: More Disc (or Disk) Brakes 

In a message dated 96-10-07 01:39:13 EDT, you write:

>
>Actually another swap that would work is swapping the spindle from a 73-77
>A-body, 70-79 F-Body, or 75-79 X-body. These spindles will bolt right up,
are
>about 1 inch taller, better designed and give a handling advantage over the
>64-72 spindles. This would allow a disk brake conversion, and would give a
>handling advantage as well. This information comes from Hot Rod June, 1987.
>Copies of the article are available from H-O Racing, mainly a pontiac
outfit,
>they also make suspensions. Number is(213)-973-7078.

I forgot to mention you'll need their conversion kit, which includes 2 upper
balljoints, 2lowerball joints, and 2 tie rod ends.

DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 04:47:54 -0300
Subject: Hauling

Well first I want to thank everybody for all info for hauling a car.
Lisa, I can't seem to find anybody in Hemmings, so maybe you could let me
know what the company's name is if you can find it, we have called unteen
different places but so far know luck.

So here goes again:  I'm in need of some help to haul a car from Ohio to 
Iowa, there is no engine/tranny, so it would be pretty light.

TIA

Chris Blumenstein

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:57:12 -0300
Subject: Disc/Drum Swaps 

Guys,
Don't know much about A bodies, but when I swapped the single master 4 wheel
drum in my 98 for dual master front disc/rear drum, I learned the following
the hard way:

1) The spindles for drum and disc are different for big cars. The drum ones
have a small knob about an inch or so above the actual spindle on the vertical
part of the part which can be milled off or swapped, but be aware of the 
difference.
Don't know if this applies to A bodies but look out for it.

2) They used different Ball joints in various years. Be very careful on 
matching
part numbers on cross year things like this. For example, I got lucky on my
98 that they didn't change the ball joints until 71 from the 66 system, you
may not have such luck.

3) May seem obvious, but your 14" wheels won't fit over discs. That means new
wheels and tires. Pricey.

4) Might need to reroute your hardlines, I suggest you get a new junction block
(hydraulic splitter) with the electric switch that warns of loss of pressure. 
Wire this into the brake light idiot light for safety. These are common as dirt
on tehe 71-up Olds, A,B&C bodies, plus other GM's.

4) Olds switched between 4 piston and one piston calipers when they were 
learnin
about disc brakes. Earlier years have what I'd guess is the rarer 4 piston 
system. I have the one piston system and it works across the 70 to 71 divide. 
That 
is, I use 1970 rotors and have 71 calipers. Works great., but I had to notch 
the
caliper end in one small place with a hand file, no safety risk taken.

5) Retain your big drum rear brakes, they have lots of stopping surface area.

6) Get an adjustable proportioning valve to make sure your rear brakes lock
up first. Otherwise the fronts will and you'll lose control when you slam on
the brakes. This can be had from Wilwood brakes in So. Cal. The valve goes into
the rear brake line. Mine's mounted to the frame behind the hyd. splitter. 
Clean and safe from accidental adjustment.

hope this helps!
cf

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 04:30:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds TV Sighting 

>
>Noticed that a new commercial for Mennen Speed Stick has a guy in a '69 
>Cutlass convertible driving up to a batting cage... don't know if this is 
>only a Canadian spot or not. 

     Gee, it wasn't an "S" with a bashed in pass. side front marker light,
was it?   ;)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 04:30:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance for a Cutless Supreme 442  1971 

>Might be tough as I have never seen a Cutless:) or a Camero for that matter...
>
     They had a camero for sale in our local paper once.  The same paper
that ran the ad "1981 4X4 pickup, $1500"  Another one:  "To Give Away, large
Doberman, friendly, loves kids..."  Makes you wonder what it takes to get on
as an editor these days!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 04:30:11 -0300
Subject: RE: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972 

>>My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
>>I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
>>Chicago area?
>
>My '72 Cutlass Cruiser doesn't have a cloak either.  But I'm not a Klingon 
>either.  Art, does your wagon have one?

     That must have been the Star Trek Cruiser Edition.  

   Ya know, I might hafta get one, too.  It'd go great with the head's up
display!  It's kind of a bummer, ya know, 'cuz people can see me and all.
At least I know what time it is!   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:16:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Just A Lovely Day... (non-tech)

 

> A fun way to pass a sunny Sunday...
> 
> Greg Beaulieu


Greg,

Absolutely right.  Thanks for your stories.  I love reading stuff 
like that.  

WE had a nice weekend around here, too.  (Is there anyplace around 
that DIDN'T have a nice weekend?)  I got my convertible out and put 
the top down and got a lot of nice looks.  But I spent my time 
ferrying children to soccer practice and so forth around town.  But 
hey, it's an excuse to drive the car (not that one is actually ever 
needed).


Dan


***********************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Athens, Ohio
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Convertible
***********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:17:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Installing a cloak in a Cutless Supreme 442 1972

> At 05:08 PM 10/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >My Cutless Supreme 442 1972 does not have the cloak installed in it. How can
> >I get hold of the cloak parts and who should I contact to install it in the
> >Chicago area?
> 
> Well, any good costume shop should have a wide assortment of cloaks, capes
> and smoking jackets. You better act fast, though, since Halloween is around
> the corner...
> 
> ;)

You also might want to try asking the Romulons, or the Klingons.

I hear they've had good success with cloaks as well :)



Tim (Who Works in Leonard Nimoy's Hometown) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: dcart@micro.ti.com (Donald B Cart)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:37:22 -0300
Subject: Olds hp ratings 

I noticed that in '68-'69, the 442 engine is "rated" for
350hp, unless you had an auto then it was 325hp.  Does anyone
know if this 25hp difference is real or was it just specmanship.
In '70, it looked like they didn't differentitate between
auto and manuals. Maybe a new group of people wrote the specs.

Thanks,
Don

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:48:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Verne's Plating 

Thanks much - we were just discussing today having part of the front grill
of our '66 p/u rechromed also.   Considering the fleet we're
accumulating......maybe I can get a bulk discount - !

Much appreciated - 

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:43:27 -0300
Subject: Re: crossmember

My '84 Cutlass (350 4bbl.) has duals and the original (V6) crossmember.  
The duals fit just fine.  They come down and then both pipes go to the 
passenger side of the car, and run alongside each other to the back where 
they are ran to their specific sides.  Any good muffler shop should be 
able to do this.  I've seen plenty of other's (mostly cutlasses) done the 
same way.   I have (I think) 2 inch pipe all  the way back, but my friend 
has larger on his cutlass.  When the pipes are run alongside each other, 
they shouldn't be touching each other, but should be about 5 inches or so 
apart.  This also makes it easy to install and equalizing pipe if you 
want to.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66,000miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85,000miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110,000miles)

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:36:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds hp ratings 

>
> I noticed that in '68-'69, the 442 engine is "rated" for
> 350hp, unless you had an auto then it was 325hp.  Does anyone
> know if this 25hp difference is real or was it just specmanship.
> In '70, it looked like they didn't differentitate between
> auto and manuals. Maybe a new group of people wrote the specs.

Don,

MT cars *were* in fact cammed hotter. Hottest of the hot would be the
'68 W30 MT with 328 degrees duration or something crazy like that. Whew!

Who'd want to drive that around town? But great on the dragstrip, I suspect.
Then again, the G400's weren't the revvers that the earlier E400 was...

Anyone got experience dragging with a 68 W30 MT?

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:17:00 -0300
Subject: Disc-ourse on brakes

In a message dated 96-10-07 01:39:13 EDT, you write:

>
>Actually another swap that would work is swapping the spindle from a 73-77
>A-body, 70-79 F-Body, or 75-79 X-body. These spindles will bolt right up,
are
>about 1 inch taller, better designed and give a handling advantage over the
>64-72 spindles. This would allow a disk brake conversion, and would give a
>handling advantage as well. This information comes from Hot Rod June, 1987.
>Copies of the article are available from H-O Racing, mainly a pontiac
outfit,
>they also make suspensions. Number is(213)-973-7078.

>I forgot to mention you'll need their conversion kit, which includes 2 
upper
>balljoints, 2lowerball joints, and 2 tie rod ends.

>DrkSole
> 73 Cutlass Supreme
> 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)

Don't forget the offset upper control arm shafts available from H/O. 
 Install them with the offset in the opposite direction than normal.  It 
will give you more range of adjustment for caster.  I did this conversion 
and have 12" front disc brakes on my '70 442.  I posted this info last week.
Scott Mullen

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Brown" <sbrown@getonthe.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:38:00 -0300
Subject: 67 Olds CS 442 

   My dad has a 67 442 he bought new Nov. 11, 1966. It has 68,000 miles and
is all original except exhaust, tires, and battery. Paint is excellent. He
has quit taking it to shows and needs the storage space in the home garage
for his everyday vehicle. He has been thinking about selling it for the past
couple of years and had a few lookers but no takers. I have told him in the
past not to sell it under 5,000 because I would be interested at that price.
Questions:

1. Does this sound like a good ball-park figure. Color is Spanish Red.

2. If I got it I would have to rent a storage shed or some ones barn, shed, 
ect.
What would be my main concerns for proper storage? How big a problem is mice? 
How often should it be started and or driven?

3. Does anyone have thoughts on storage do's and don't's in general?

        I would like to have it and keep it in the family. I think this is
what he also would like. He told me I could make small monthly payments so I
would not have to get a loan. A man I work with (a pontiac man) told me I
would be crazy not to get it. Any thoughts and input would be very appreciated.

                         Thank You
                         S.E. Brown

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:48:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling, some transporters 

At 04:47 AM 10/7/96 -0300, you wrote:

>So here goes again:  I'm in need of some help to haul a car from Ohio to 
>Iowa, there is no engine/tranny, so it would be pretty light.

Check out this page on the Web:
http://www.car-nection.com/cgi-win/dspdlr.exe?transportation It has 12 links
to  auto transporter info pages.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:53:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 Olds CS 442 

At 11:38 AM 10/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>   My dad has a 67 442 he bought new Nov. 11, 1966. It has 68,000 miles and
>is all original except exhaust, tires, and battery. Paint is excellent. He
>has quit taking it to shows and needs the storage space in the home garage
>for his everyday vehicle. He has been thinking about selling it for the past
>couple of years and had a few lookers but no takers. I have told him in the
>past not to sell it under 5,000 because I would be interested at that price.
>Questions:
>
>1. Does this sound like a good ball-park figure. Color is Spanish Red.

$5,000 for that piece of junk? Man, I'd let my ol' man have a piece of my
mind if he tried to foist off a thirty-year old car on me, when you can get
a perfectly-good three-year old Hyundai for that same amount. Tell you what,
give me his number and _I'll_ tell him what he can do with that car!
;)

OF COURSE THAT IS AN EXCELLENT PRICE! (caps intended) You should be
committed to an insane asylum for not instantly jumping on the ownership of
a low-mileage 1st-gen 442 for low monthly payments! (Am I being too strong
in this assessment? Too mild?)

>2. If I got it I would have to rent a storage shed or some ones barn, shed,
ect.
>What would be my main concerns for proper storage? How big a problem is mice? 
>How often should it be started and or driven?

A dry, dry, dry surface should be your first concern. Parking your car over
a patch of grass would *kill* the floorpans with rust. You should look for
dry storage, so even a dirt-floored barn wouldn't be an ideal spot. Don't
park it someplace that water will drip down on it, or where teenagers will
discover it and treat it as an abandoned car (security should be your second
concern after dryness). Oh, yeah, look for someplace that won't burn down or
fall down (again, watch out what kind of barn you park it in).

If you can't keep a cat around, rat poison is a second alternative.

As long as you drive it once a month or so, you shouldn't need to store it
in any special way (though you may want to remove the battery for that
length of time). Just change the oil every 6 months under those conditions
to get rid of accumulated condensation.

Any longer periods (i.e. regularly over three months between drives), you'd
want to resort to the procedures outlined in the Olds FAQ for storing a car.

>3. Does anyone have thoughts on storage do's and don't's in general?

Again, the Olds FAQ has a section devoted just to this purpose.

>        I would like to have it and keep it in the family. I think this is
>what he also would like. He told me I could make small monthly payments so I
>would not have to get a loan. A man I work with (a pontiac man) told me I
>would be crazy not to get it. Any thoughts and input would be very 
appreciated.

Again, just about everybody on this list (except the die-hard 98 and Toro
guys) would gladly trade a digit to be in your place.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 05:52:18 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Olds hp ratings 

     Ooh!  Oooh!  (hand in the air like a 3rd grader who knows the answer) 
     pick me!  Pick me!  I'll drive it around town!


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Olds hp ratings
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/7/96 8:06 AM
     
MT cars *were* in fact cammed hotter. Hottest of the hot would be the 
'68 W30 MT with 328 degrees duration or something crazy like that. Whew!
     
     Who'd want to drive that around town?

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:23:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Olds hp ratings 

> MT cars *were* in fact cammed hotter. Hottest of the hot would be the
> '68 W30 MT with 328 degrees duration or something crazy like that. Whew!
>     
>
>      Ooh!  Oooh!  (hand in the air like a 3rd grader who knows the answer)
>      pick me!  Pick me!  I'll drive it around town!

Okay, I pick you, but I get to ride shotgun! Of course *I'd* want to drive
it around town, too! :^)

Guess what I meant was that it'd be a less-than civilized cam.


- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:46:00 -0300
Subject: Want Ads

Jeff Zeilman wrote:
Olds 1968 Toronado Custom.  Peruvian silver, Black vinyl top, interior.
 Restored to new condition 1987.  Maintained for show only since.
 Immaculate winner of numerous major awards.  $12,500.  SASE for photos.
 Orene Crawford, 8602 Snowshoe Trail, Cicero, NY 13039.  Phone 315-699-1665

I lived in Syracuse, NY for many years(about 10 miles from Cicero) and have 
car savvy friends in the area.  If anyone is interested in this, I could 
probably have one of them take a preliminary look at the car  for you. 
 Price seems steep.  Are Toros going for this much?
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:37:01 -0300
Subject: car stuff 

      The Statements Car Owners are Really Making
     
     
Acura Integra - I have always wanted to own the Buick
of sports cars 

Acura Legend   - I'm too bland for German cars

Acura NSX    - I am impotent

Audi 90   - I enjoy putting out engine fires 

Buick Park Avenue - I am older than 34 of the 50 states 

Cadillac Eldorado - I am a very good Mary Kay salesman

Cadillac Seville   - I am a pimp

Chevrolet Camaro - I enjoy beating the hell out of people 

Chevrolet Chevette  - I like seeing people's reactions
when I tell them I have a 'Vette

Chevrolet Corvette  - I'm in a mid-life crisis

Chevrolet El Camino - I am leading a militia to overthrow
the government 

Chrysler Cordoba   - I dig the rich Corinthian leather

Datsun 280Z   - I have a kilo of cocaine in my wheel well 

Dodge Dart- I teach third grade special education and I
voted for Eisenhower

Dodge Daytona  - I delivered pizza for four years to get
this car 
     
Ferrari Testarossa - I am known to prematurely ejaculate 

Ford Fairmont    - (See Dodge Dart)

Ford Mustang   - I slow down to 85 in school zones

Ford Crown Victoria - I enjoy having people slow to
55mph and change lanes when I pull up behind them

Geo Storm   - I will start the 11th grade in the fall. 

Geo Tracker     - I will start the 12th grade in the fall.

Honda del Sol - I've always said, half a convertible is
better than no convertible at all

Honda Civic  - I have just graduated and have no credit 

Honda Accord  - I lack any originality and am basically
a lemming.

Infiniti Q45 - I am a physician with 17 malpractice suits
pending. 

Isuzu Impulse  - I do not give a damn about J.D. Power
or his reports. 

Jaguar XJ6 - I am so rich I will pay 60K for a car that is in
the shop 280 days per year.

Kia Sephia   - I learned nothing from the failure of
Daihatsu Corp. 

Lamborghini Countach    - I only have one testicle

Lincoln Town Car - I live for bingo and covered dish
suppers 

Mercury Grand Marquis   - (See above)

Mercedes 500SL  - I will beat you up if you ask me for
an autograph 

Mercedes 560SEL  - I have a daughter named Bitsy and a
son named Cole

Mazda Miata - I do not fear being decapitated by an
eighteen-wheeler 

MGB   - I am dating a mechanic

Mitsubishi Diamante - I don't know what it means either

Nissan 300ZX - I have yet to complete my divorce
proceedings. 

Oldsmobile Cutlass  - I just stole this car and I'm going to
make a  fortune off the parts

Peugeot 505 Diesel -I am on the EPA's Ten Most Wanted
List 

Plymouth Neon    - I sincerely enjoy doing the Macarena

Pontiac Trans AM   - I have a switchblade in my sock 

Porsche 911 Turbo  - I have a three inch thingie

Porsche 944  - I am dating big-haired women that would
otherwise be inaccessible to me

Rolls Royce Silver Shadow - I think Pat Buchannon is a
tad bit too liberal 

Saturn SC2  - (See Honda Civic)

Subaru Legacy  - I have always wanted a Japanese car
even more inferior than Isuzu

Toyota Camry  - I am still in the closet

Volkswagon Beetle - I still watch Partridge Family reruns 

Volkswagon Cabriolet  - I am out of the closet

Volkswagon Microbus  - I am tripping right now 

Volvo 740 Wagon   - I am frightened of my wife

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:56:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling 

Chris,
I don't know if you want to tackle this yourself, but this might help.

When I haulded my '70 Delta (no engine or trans either), I checked U-haul, 
Ryder for tow dollies.  They also have transport trailers, but you would 
need a truck with a heavy duty hitch to use them.  I went with a dolly from 
a rental place.  Check the width between the dolly's fenders to make sure 
the car can fit.

Getting the car on and off the dolly was easier than I thought.  My dad and 
I did it, but I could have done it myself.  Now this was on a relatively 
level area.

Problems w/dolly: Rental company said 45 MPH max.  Did that w/car in tow.  
Trip was a cruise except for one large bump where I thought I was going to 
loose the car.  Everything was ok, it just sounded horrible.

The dolly swivels, so combined with the trailer tongue on the hitch ball 
swiveling, backing up is almost impossible.

Good luck!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ---------------
<snip>
So here goes again:  I'm in need of some help to haul a car from Ohio to 
Iowa, there is no engine/tranny, so it would be pretty light.

TIA

Chris Blumenstein

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:11:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 Olds CS 442 

   My dad has a 67 442 he bought new Nov. 11, 1966. It has 68,000 miles and
> is all original except exhaust, tires, and battery. Paint is excellent. He
> has quit taking it to shows and needs the storage space in the home garage
> for his everyday vehicle. He has been thinking about selling it for the past
> couple of years and had a few lookers but no takers. I have told him in the
> past not to sell it under 5,000 because I would be interested at that price.
> Questions:

> 1. Does this sound like a good ball-park figure. Color is Spanish Red.

S.E. Brown,

If you don't by it, please let me!!  I once owned a '66 and was dumb enough
to sell it.  8 yrs. later (this year) I bought back the exact same car.
Cost - $10,500.  You are getting it for a steal.

As I said, if you don't want it, I do.

Good Luck!!

Mike Turley         '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:25:33 -0300
Subject: Re: car stuff 

>Dodge Dart- I teach third grade special education and I
>voted for Eisenhower
>
> ...
>
>Ford Fairmont    - (See Dodge Dart)


Roger,

Cars I've ever owned (this is for real):

1966 442 (Still have)

1972 Dart
1968 Dart
1969 Dart
1973 Dart
1968 Dart
1983 Fairmont
1979 Zephyr  (a M*rc*ry Fairmont)(still have)

I'd drive anything (even a Schwinn) to keep my OLDS!
It is nice to know that a Fairmont is the logical replacement for a Dart.
I thought so, but was afraid to mention it.

Mike Turley         '66 442
turley@symplex.com

P.S.  I'd love to teach 3rd grade, but am to young to have voted for Ike.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:33:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Olds Area meet 

>Sorry I missed the meeting after all that talk and planning.  One of my kids
>was sick and I was on duty.  So I hope you all had a great time and will
>someone be reporting the results?

I wasn't sure whether to post this under the same old Subject line
or under the "Just a Lovely Day" one instead, because it was. The
Bears were doing so badly they conceded _next_ week's game as well,
but otherwise Sunday was great, with simply perfect weather.

Junior, my wife and I got to Fuddrucker's just after 3:00 p.m. I was
worried about whether anyone was going to show, but we came around the
last corner and lo and behold, there was a black 442 and red Cutlass
already parked there. "Hmmm," I thought. "This Internet thing really
works after all!" And no sooner did we get out and start setting up
for some pictures but another Oldsmobile showed up... and another... and
another... and another... It was great.

I'm out of time for the moment but no doubt the others there will chime
in and tell us all about it. I shot almost a full roll of photos and
will get them finished and available as soon as I can. Details later...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:51:59 -0300
Subject: Re: car stuff

At 01:37 PM 10/7/96 -0300, Roger M. Borlase wrote:
>
>      The Statements Car Owners are Really Making

>Chevrolet Camaro - I enjoy beating the hell out of people 

Accurate description, I do this rather frequently on the weekends:)

>Chevrolet El Camino - I am leading a militia to overthrow
>the government 

Could be me. I do have one settng in my garage, not mine though.

>Oldsmobile Cutlass  - I just stole this car and I'm going to
>make a  fortune off the parts

Then after they sell the parts the shells always end up in our towyard....
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...daily driver I get in trouble with
81 Camaro.....................waiting for a big block chevy
75 Hurst/Olds W-25....restoration project
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:52:09 -0300
Subject: Re: car stuff 

I learned to drive in a '74 Plymouth Duster.  225 slant six, great engine.  
Ralley gauges too!  With AC!

But I have lived longer than the body...  We do that road salt thing in NH :-(

>Dodge Dart- I teach third grade special education and I
>voted for Eisenhower
>
> ...
>
>Ford Fairmont    - (See Dodge Dart)

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:42:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Delta 88 on film

And don't forget the video for "Stay the Night" by Chicago.   Lots of tire 
churning fun with a babe in a '68 442
Scott Mullen
 ----------
From: oldsnut
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Re: 73 Delta 88 on film
Date: Sunday, October 06, 1996 11:00PM



>Anyone else know of Oldsmobiles on the silver screen?
>
>DrkSole
> 73 Cutlass supreme
> 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)
>  Deadite.
>
>In the movie On Golden pond they drive a 73 Olds 88, In dirty dancing they
are traveling to the Poconos in a 63 Olds 88 and in All the presidents men
as paul newman is in a telephone booth a 68 Toronado Airport limo drives by
in the background.
Chuck Noppe

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: batkison@interserv.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:05:34 -0300
Subject: Re: floor mats

I need a set of 442 (70) grills for my rag-have you got a spare set?
Brad

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:42:00 -0300
Subject: TEST ////THROW AWAY



------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:15:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Delta 88 on film

> <snip-a-roo-nee> and in All the presidents men
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> as paul newman is in a telephone booth a 68 Toronado Airport limo drives by
     ^^^^^^^^^^^

> in the background.
> Chuck Noppe

For the record, I'd guess you mean Robert Redford.  Unless the movie was
"Bob Woodward and the Sundance Kid", or maybe "The Sting III: Dick's Plumbers"

:):):):)

P.S. Remember to vote for Bill Culp, of the Oldsmobile Reform Party, this 
Nov.!!

Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:22:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Delta 88 on film 

>Anyone else know of Oldsmobiles on the silver screen?

Okay, well, this may be tough to find, but here are the details
if you're feeling determined:

Back around '85 a friend of mine was the cinematographer on a
low-budget religious film shot in the Chicago area by Edward T.
MacDougal Productions, which has apparently made a bunch of these
kinds of films over the years. The topic material isn't my cup of
tea, but to their credit, rather than make some boring stuff with
organ music and characters staring meaningfully into sunsets, etc.,
they tried to do some interesting youth-oriented stories that would
get kids' attention focused on whatever the message of the film was.
Running time about 60 minutes, suitable for school presentations, etc.
You get the picture.

Anyway, they needed cars, and for this film (whose title escapes me;
you'd have to find this one via the producer's name above) the main
character was supposed to be a Bad Kid Who Is Reformed By The End Of
The Film. I got them my friend's '73 Olds Delta 88 convertible and it
appears throughout the film. I am going nuts trying to remember the
title of the film because it's probably still available through church
and school rental companies -- heck, maybe even Blockbuster lists it...
If anyone with a VideoLog can find it, great; the next film they made
was called "Gold Through The Fire", and didn't have many Oldsmobiles
that I recall, but did feature me in a small role as a TV reporter. I 
also got shot by a Russian soldier. Good fun.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:22:00 -0300
Subject: Re: movie

There was an  excellent "BOP" magazine article on the cars used for the 
movie.  I have that issue in my files, and if you want me to dig it out I 
will.  All I can recall is that one was a 350 Cutlass and one was a 455 442. 
 I'll have to pry open my file cabinet and get the mag out.
Scott Mullen
70' 442
 ----------
From: Mike Hall
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Re: movie
Date: Saturday, October 05, 1996 5:37PM


Charley Buehner writes:
>Actually, from what I've heard, the only damage to that car (it was a real
>442, by the way) was the headlights and windshield.  The rest was special
>effects and/or stunt double *(hopefully a chevelle painted to look like
>it?)*  Anyway, that's the word I've heard, that they didn't really wreck 
the
>car.

I was at a local R&D shop over North of Mt. Clemens and saw lots n lots
of red 442 pictures in their lobby. This company did three cars for
Demolition Man. I never asked if they were authentic 1970 442's... two of
the cars were for the stunts, the other was there to look pretty...


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:24:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Head to Headers on Exhaust systems

From: Paul R. K. Kuromoto
>Well nitrous does need a lot of exhaust, so it would never be a bad idea
>to move up to big (3" or whatever) pipes when using nitrous.  I mean the
>car is still burning enough gas to get it to what, 12 seconds, 11
>seconds on the nitrous, it won't need any less exhaust than a car that
>does that on the motor.  Although the previous owner of one of my cars (a
>70 SX) was running 12.80's through the stock exhaust with turbo mufflers
>with a stock engine and 125hp nitrous, I am sure he could have gotten
>even faster times out of it had he opened up the exhaust.  Substantially
>faster, even.

Agreed, agreed and agreed.  I have never maintained that headers do not 
produce power gains.  However, headers would be a long way down on my list 
of mods, because of the penalties involved in their use.  Port matching the 
W/Z manifolds (a slight downhill lip on the lower side of the port (i.e. 
level of exhaust port floor slightly above the level of the manifold flange) 
helps prevent reversion) and getting a 2.5 " full length system w/ 
Flowmasters would give you the highest efficency for a reasonably stock 
system.  I WOULD BET THAT THIS SYSTEM, ON THE STOCK ENGINE IN THE '70 SX YOU 
DESCRIBE, WOULD GENERATE VIRTUALLY NO BACK PRESSURE!  The factory stock 
intake would shut off that motor long before the modified 2.5"/Flowmaster 
exhaust system would.  You could then take the money you saved from not 
buying headers and buy M&H Racemaster tires and a blow proof bell housing/ 
driveshaft safety loop.  The tires are probably good for 0.5 sec on the 
typical stock car and take 10 minutes to bolt on at the strip.  (Check out 
the HP Books "Clutch and Flywheel Handbook" for a picture of a 
flywheel/clutch explosion.  You'll think twice before running high traction 
tires and pounding the car off the line without a scatter shield.)

While headers provide a gain on any car, they are cost effective only on a 
car that has been optimized in several other areas first.  When you get your 
heads ported, your Edelbrock Performer/Torker bolted on, your K&N airfilter 
installed, your 3.91:1 axle installed, etc., etc., etc. then go get your 
headers.  In my opinion, headers, and the retuning involved, should be one 
of the last mods to a non-"race only" Olds.  GM probably spent more money on 
designing those W/Z manifolds than the header manufactuter makes in a year! 
 They took into account all of the serviceability, durability, ground 
clearance, tuning, etc. concerns when they designed those manifolds.  The 
manifolds are entirely suitable for 95% of the performance enthusiasts out 
there.

Since I built most of my car at a time in my life when I had other financial 
priorities, I became focused on maximizing performance by the most cost 
effective and durable means.  After all, my '69 Cutlass did 6 years and 
70,000 miles as my daily driver.  My '70 442 was a daily driver for 2 years 
and about 12,000 miles.  A "systems" approach to modification resulted in a 
pretty stellar service record for my cars.  That's why I still own an Olds.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #323
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