To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/14/96 02:45:09 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #300


oldsmobile-digest       Saturday, 14 September 1996    Volume 01 : Number 300


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:57:17 -0300
Subject: Re:  

>I am looking for some parts for my '68 CS convertible.
>a parking brake pedal pad,
>two front window handles,

Seem to recall seeing these in repro form in the MotorMite "HELP!"
line at the usual auto parts places. Have you tried there?

>a dashboard clock that works. 

Do you have one at all right now, or just the filler plate? If you 
have one but it doesn't work, the collective wisdom around here is 
that fogging some WD-40 spray through the backlighting holes (without 
the tube on the nozzle) can often get it going again.

>Also I am looking for a front right side running light (markerlight)

Is this the plain rectangular one with a clear lens? I think the 
'68 Skylark and possibly some others used that, too, if this helps 
widen your search.

>I don't have a very big budget for this car right now because Honey
>has other things she wants to spend money on -curtains or some stupid
>thing like that-

Gee, your powers of persuasion didn't sway her, eh?   :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:12:12 -0300
Subject: FW: Dip Stick Tube

I think the shop manual says you  thread a 5/16? or 3/8? bolt into it, and
somehow using a body dent puller/slide hammer, extract  it.  Can look for more
detail tonight unless you get a better suggestion before then.

Frank Boerger


>Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get a broken dip stick tube
>out of my block. It broke off flusk with the block of course...The engine is
>still in the car so removing the oil pan is out of the question. 

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:12:15 -0300
Subject: FW: HEI Update...

Blaine: 

This is a rerun of a good discussion Dave & Todd were having, which explains 
the
thermostatic vacuum switch, of which I think you are referring.

I have a scanned the appropriate page from my '68 shop manual which explains 
and
illustrates this switch and routing.  If you have a fax number, I'll be happy 
to
shoot it to you.

Frank Boerger/Tallahassee,FL



>   _
>  | |= <-- top (connected to vacuum advance)
>  | |= <-- center (connected to carb vacuum source)
>  | |= <-- bottom (connected to manifold vacuum source)
> _| |_
>|_____|
>_|___|_____
>
>This diagram is based on the way the one on my 350 is hooked up, and is
>subject to correction, as always!

>Nice diagram Dave!

>If this is the same thing that's (supposed to be) on my '72 350, it's the
>distributer vacuum control switch. 
>According to the manual the correct hookup is bottom to intake vacumm
>source, middle to distributer vacuum advance, and the top is a vent and
>should not have anything connected to it.
>The diagram in the manual also shows two electrical terminals on top of the
>switch. The one on the side with the ports is labeled "from fuse panel dir
>sig - back up" and the other is labeled "to transmission switch" 

>That's the 350 hookup anyway, hope it helps.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:15:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Dip Stick Tube 

Sorry, didn't get clear on your problem. Must say I like Joe's
approach.
cf

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:27:54 -0300
Subject: Wanted: '66 Tri-Power Carberator (End Carb) 

Hello,
  I am looking for an end carb for the '66 tri-carb set-up.  I have one end 
carb and 2 center carbs, but I need one more end carb to make the set-up 
actually operational.  If anyone has an end carb that they would consider 
selling, of if anyone would like to trade an end carb for a center carb, 
please contact me.  Also, If ayone knows of anybody who may have an end carb 
that is in ANY condition (restorable condition), please contact me, I'd 
greatly appreciate it.

                                                    Thank You,
                                                     Craig Dobbins
                                                      Kissrulz@gnn.com

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:19:20 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

> >Here is the original p/n for the '64 ignition switch: 1116646

Well, as I have sat here and watched Andrew run to the parts store, 
others striking out, I saw the part number go by and decided to give 
it a try.  I figured I'd have a good a chance as anyone, and jumped 
in.

I called my parts guy at the loc'l dealer and asked of he were up to 
a challenge.  Described what I was doing (you can do THAT on the 
Internet??), and whipped out the part number.  "Hmmm", he says, 
"that's a discontinued part.  Lemme look around on the locater for 
it.  Call back in 15 minutes."

15 minutes transpired, then 20, and I decided to call back.  SUCCESS! 
He has located 2 in the United States!  Called 1 guy - it'll cost .. 
$12.00 + tax.  Now the problem, they are nowheres near here.  I now   
punt the task to list members in Texas and Nevada to persue this 
further.  Here is what I've got - dealer names and phone numbers.

1) (the guys I called for the confirmation and the price)-
	    Wilkenson Oldsmobile
	    Victoria, TX 
	    (800) 945-9903 
	    (512) 575-6375

2)	    C.O.D. Motors
	    Mindlen, NV
	    (702) 782-2281
	    (702) 782-5500

If no one is near these guys, I could order it and have it 
shipped to MD, and then off to Esko (if he still wants it....)

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:17:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 

>Okay, I relayed that this morning to the outfit I was talking to
>yesterday. Bob, the guy I spoke to yesterday who wanted this number, 
>had just left for lunch but I gave them the details to forward to
>him so we'll see if he calls back.

He did. I am now swamped in info on old ignition switches, including
a faxed page of illustrations. Here we go:

The page from Standard Parts is of "Blue Streak" switches. Their part
number for the one we want is US-34, corresponding to original GM part
number 1116646. Follow me closely here:

They also list AC-Delco "short numbers" for it, if you have a bunch
of NOS Delco boxes to hunt through. Its Delco number was originally
D1431, then superceded as follows: D1438 -> D1446 -> D1455 -> D1457.
I suppose any of those would allegedly fit.

The original GM part numbers corresponding to the above are:
1116605 -> 1116608 -> 1116633 -> 1116646 -> 1116654. Note that the
number Greg found for us is fourth-generation.

Bob has already checked his warehouse and they're out, but he said
that anyone stocking Blue Streak and/or Standard parts might have one
locally, of course. I called my local outfit back with this new info
and they checked their warehouse just now: no luck. Guess we'll have
to see if an Olds dealer can find one through their locator system...
Mike?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:21:02 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: HEI Update... 

>>The diagram in the manual also shows two electrical terminals on top of the
>>switch. The one on the side with the ports is labeled "from fuse panel dir
>>sig - back up" and the other is labeled "to transmission switch" 
>
>>That's the 350 hookup anyway, hope it helps.

Sounds like the Pontiac 350 also: the electrical terminals function to
turn on vacuum to the distributor when in high gear ("transmission switch").
Not sure of the significance of the "back up" connector unless it also
operates vacuum advance when in reverse.

Possibly this is not used on the earlier cars, though...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:34:55 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 

>If no one is near these guys, I could order it and have it 
>shipped to MD, and then off to Esko (if he still wants it....)

Esko, please tell us you still want it.  :-)

This little stunt we pulled off is pretty cool, IMHO, if you stop
to look at a map and consider all the people and countries involved,
don'tcha think?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:49:43 -0300
Subject: To the older members of the Olds list 

Hi guys,
  Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
membership size??  I come home in the morning off of my midnight shift, turn 
on my computer to check my messages, and (usually) find that I have 100-150 
messages now.  Glad to have new members, but maybe this list should be split 
into a 442 list, Delta list, etc.  Recently, I've erased more messages 
without even reading them than I can remember in a long time!!

                                                 Craig.

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:43:18 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

On 13 Sep 96 at 15:34, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> This little stunt we pulled off is pretty cool, IMHO, if you stop to
> look at a map and consider all the people and countries involved,
> don'tcha think?

Technology sure is cool (sometimes?)!  Hunh?

BTW, $12 for the part?  Do you think that's '64 prices?

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:51:25 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 

>BTW, $12 for the part?  Do you think that's '64 prices?

No, in '64, $12 would get you the whole dashboard.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:26:06 -0300 
Subject: sign up for O.C.A. on the web?

Hello, I let my suscription to O.A.C. lapse for a year and now I am able to
actually work on my car- so I need to get back in the swing of things and
re-sign up with the club...
    Can I do this online? I have the physical address, but would prefer to call
a number and give my Credit card # or via web or something (snail mail is the
pits !)

    Can anybody help?

Rob Malland  '73-442
Tacoma, WA   '96-Cutlass Supreme


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:15:22 -0300 
Subject: Olds Racing

On Sunday I'm taking my 442 up to the Great Lakes Dragway in Union
Grove, Wisconsin to do a little drag racing.  Since I've never done this
before is should be rather amusing.  Anybody in the Chicago/Milwuakee
area who is really bored on Sunday should come by and watch me
flog my car.  And bring a trailer, just in case :-)

I expect to be at the track around 1:00pm, unless it rains.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed     ET=?? sec at ?? MPH

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:04:36 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

On 13 Sep 96 at 12:49, Craig Dobbins wrote:

> but maybe this list should be split into a 442 list, Delta list, etc. 

Blasphemy!  Folks, we have problem within our ranks!  Ready the ropes 
(tow cables, etc.) :-)

As stated before, the uniqueness of the list is good for all.  But 
those rebel Toroheads have started their own.  Perhaps you could 
organize a small group and start the 442 sub-list, or the 88/98 sub-list, or 
the ....

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:20:12 -0300
Subject: Re: 

At 17:57 09/13/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>I am looking for some parts for my '68 CS convertible.
>>a parking brake pedal pad,
>>two front window handles,
>
>Seem to recall seeing these in repro form in the MotorMite "HELP!"
>line at the usual auto parts places. Have you tried there?
>

"HELP" parts will work,but I would like the rear ones of course.

>>a dashboard clock that works. 
>
>Do you have one at all right now, or just the filler plate? If you 
>have one but it doesn't work, the collective wisdom around here is 
>that fogging some WD-40 spray through the backlighting holes (without 
>the tube on the nozzle) can often get it going again.
>

I have a clock now,but it doesn't seem to work.that idea about WD-40 might
just work.I'll let you know.

>>Also I am looking for a front right side running light (markerlight)
>
>Is this the plain rectangular one with a clear lens? I think the 
>'68 Skylark and possibly some others used that, too, if this helps 
>widen your search.
>

Don't know about Skylark lights,but your right,it will expand the chances of
finding one.

>>I don't have a very big budget for this car right now because Honey
>>has other things she wants to spend money on -curtains or some stupid
>>thing like that-
>
>Gee, your powers of persuasion didn't sway her, eh?   :-)
>Andrew C. Green            
>

Actually,she's the one that wants the car on the road so SHE can drive it!!!
Just as long as the cost doesn't come out of HER pocket!!

Thanks for the help here and your amusing/informative answers to other
questions. Makes the day go by happy!!

Brad (0-0||||0-0) Best viewed with New Courier 9 font
'68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:20:42 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's
> membership size??  

It's not just you.  I've notice a lot of new names and the traffic 
appears to have taken a jump after the list was mentioned in a couple of 
recent publications.  Me thinks it will only increase.

Can't see where a split would really work out in the long run -- too much 
crossover of information.  I suspect most would end up subscribing to the 
various lists anyway -- just like the Toro list subscribers are also 
subscribers of the Olds list.

Perhaps it's time we talked about that subject line stuff again.  
You know, that PARTS, 442, FOR SALE, etc. thing.  

Opinions?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:21:58 -0300 
Subject: Re: 1973 Olds Cutlass and 442

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>

>      ....  The stock manifolds look realy good after you sandblast
>them and use the Easton clear protector.

That, of course, would be my other compay (besides the aluminum baseball bat
mfg :-).  I assume you meant Eastwood...

- -Jeff Easton (no relation)
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:20:22 -0300
Subject: Re: sign up for O.C.A. on the web?

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, ROB MALLAND wrote:
> Hello, I let my suscription to O.A.C. lapse for a year and now I am able to
> actually work on my car- so I need to get back in the swing of things and
> re-sign up with the club...
>     Can I do this online? I have the physical address, but would prefer to 
call
> a number and give my Credit card # or via web or something (snail mail is the
> pits !)

No can do, Rob. When I talked to Penny Casteele this summer she said that 
she wants to get into this but hasn't yet found the time to do it 
properly. As a result OCA has no presence here on the net as yet. You 
*can* get the address and dues info from Bryceman's page, though...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:26:47 -0300
Subject: Brad's '68 Wish List

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Brad Baker wrote:
> I am looking for some parts for my '68 CS convertible. Mostly interior parts
> like a dash courtesy light lens,(mines kinda yellow), two lenses for the
> rear arm rest lights, a drivers door handle pad -black-,a parking brake
> pedal pad and the knob for the release,

All available repro from Year One and others. Or didn't you want to spend 
that much money?

> a glovebox lock mech, 

Parts car material, but not hard to find. Do you get JWO? Good ads for 
this sort of thing.

> two front window handles, a passengers door panel -black/no carpet-, 
> driver side sun visor, rear quarter windows rubber strips -2-,

Year One, etc. Available repro. Prolly don't want used weatherstrips anyway.

> and a dashboard clock

Parts car, but not hard to find. See above.

> works. Also I am looking for a front right side running light(markerlight)

Year One again.

> and some metal connecting bar pieces for the convertible top that have
> broken.

Toughest of them all... need a *convertible* parts car. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:37:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> Fernando,
>   I am alloed 2500 miles per year, and you are required to atend one club
> show per year.  You are also required to belong to a classic car club.  I
> don't know about you, but I never put more than 2000 miles per season on my
> '68 442 convert, in fact, I never even drive it unless I can put the top
> down!  If I remember correctly, you live around the Toronto area, so your
> winter are like mine (Buffalo).  You may drive yours more than me though.  A
> saturday and sunday vehicle here.
> 
>Craig,
	I'm not sure about the insurance business in Buffalo, but I'm quite 
sure that when I did 
look into getting insurance w/ J. C Taylor, the broker told me i couldn't 
drive the car at all 
except for showing and club parades etc...That's not how I'd like to enjoy my 
car. Infact if 
they had said only a weekend car I'd be ecstatic about it and have no doubts 
about joining but 
that was not the case, however I will inquire about it again. I'm quite sure 
that they said no 
pleasure driving at all. I also inquired about the Haegerty Insurnace but they 
only do insurance 
in the U.S. Infact they were interested in trying to get into the Canadian 
market but didn't 
know how. I wish I could find insurance for this car, that would allow atleast 
some driving. I 
hate admiring the road from a far and only when I wash it (around the block 
drive).

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:31:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

RBraden@qualitybio.com wrote:
> 
>      I am in the process on obtaining classic car insurance on my
>      completely restified '72 442 Convertible (W 30 copy and modified but
>      streetable 455).  Does anyone have any particular recommendations or
>      companies to avoid at all cost?
> 
>      After comparing info. from a bunch of companies from Hemmings,  I am
>      thinking about going with Hagerty Classic Automobile Insurance of
>      Traverse City, MI.  They are underwritten by Greenwich Ins. Co.  who
>      is a member of the NAC Re Corporation group and carry an "A" rating.
>      This is an Agreed Value Policy that reflects the full amount that I
>      willingly "over?"spent on this car.
> 
>      Any info./ experiences out there would be GREATLY appreciated!
> 
>      Bob Braden 

Bob,

I use the Haggerty Co. & like it.  It isn't the only good one.  My 
criteria in choosing a company was dependability, reliability, 
reasonable use of my cars, & cost.  


The only ones that I know to avoid is your regular State Farm, Allstate, 
etc. which won't actually insure your car for its worth or replacement 
value.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:34:37 -0300
Subject: Re: 1973 Olds Cutlass and 442

> _______________________
> Bill,
>=20
> I must say, you have great writing skills.  Not just with this one, but=
 with
> a bunch of  messages you've posted.  Very interesting stuff, easy to fo=
llow,
> and fun to read.
>=20
> Jeff Zeilmann


Jeff,

Well thank you very much.  I owe it all to being a mentally retarded=20
teacher.  Or is that a teacher of the mentally retarded.  I never could=20
get that straight.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama=20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:44:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Fernando and other Canadian members of the list, here in Canada there is 
an insurance plan called the Silver Wheel Plan that works much like the 
Taylor and Hagerty policies. Restrictions on driving, but my broker told 
me that he would not contest a claim as long as the car wasn't being used 
for regular transportation. The wording of the policy is such that there 
is considerable room to maneuver as to the nature of the car's usage. I 
quite like it. I've had it on my Skylark ever since I got it. 
Ridiculously cheap too, although you do need to have an appraisal done 
first.

Representation varies by province, but in Ontario call Lant & Co. 
Insurance, in Don Mills. 800-461-4099. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:35:26 -0300
Subject: Keep the list whole 

here's why:
1) there are cool toys on the b,c bodies that fit a bodies
2) there are cool motor parts on a bodies which fit b,c bodies
3) lots of common problems, the more brains we can put on 'em the
better off we all are
4) we all have cool cars and it's cool to hear about other people's
cool cars (even Bu*cks, love those '65 riviera GS's)
5) knowledge common to all models would splinter along the interests
of those who have it and would go to fewer eyes in cyberland, meaning
we're all poorer for the splintering

6) the personalities are interesting too

my 20 centimes
cf

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:48:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> Craig Dobbins wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   I have classic insurance through J.C. Taylor in PA, $12,000 worth of
> > coverage cost me $110.00 per year, good company.  Many classic vehicle 
owners
> > I know go through them.
> >
> >Yeah, but what well they allow you to do with the car? Can't drive 
it...atleast like I want to.
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto


My company allows all the use that I need to do.  The requirements are 
owning a regular use car, keeping the insured car in a locked garage, 
keeping up w/records so as to verify any updates or improvements to it, 
& having a good driving record.  My insurance covers liability & 
comprehensive for about what Craig is quoting.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:58:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Dip Stick Tube

If I remember right, Chris Witt makes a tool to extract these tubes. Write
him at wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

At 03:02 PM 9/13/96 -0300, Dave Isho wrote:
>Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get a broken dip stick tube
>out of my block. It broke off flusk with the block of course...The engine is
>still in the car so removing the oil pan is out of the question. 
>
> >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
>     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
>     
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:56:31 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

Geez, Mike and Andy, this whole business is just *too* cool! Makes all 
the hassle of the list sometimes really worthwhile. I just hope we can 
bring it to a conclusion and make Esko happy -- I just hope he still 
needs it! Great job, guys!!! 

Now all we need is for GM to make the locator available on the web... 
wouldn't that be something!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:52:37 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 Tri-Power Question 

          Craig,
          
          Congrats on your find.  My tri-power manifold had exactly 
          the same problem yours does.  I also managed to snap off one 
          of the bolts holding the square caps into place, only to 
          find the caps rusted into place.
          
          First, a little info.  The plates do not "slide".  The 
          square caps each have a flat plate sticking out 
          perpendicular from the cap into the heat riser passage.  For 
          review, the heat riser passes exhaust gas under the 
          carburetor (in this case the center carb only) for 
          atomization of the fuel on cold start-up.  Unfortunately, 
          this additional heat reduces max power by reducing inlet 
          charge density.  The plate sticking down into the heat riser 
          passage serves to block the exhaust gas and allow the carb 
          to run cooler.
          
          The blockoffs on the manifold are designed so that one can 
          remove the four bolts and rotate the cap 90 degrees to 
          either block or unblock the heat riser.  Unfortunately, the 
          caps are designed to not use gaskets.  Instead, the 
          underside of the cap has a circular step which fits tightly 
          into a mating cutout in the manifold.  Time, humidity, and 
          exhaust heat all conspire to cause this feature to seize up.
          
          Try removing the bolts and applying Liquid Wrench or WD-40 
          to the caps overnight.  This should sufficiently loosen them 
          so that you can use a suitable wrench to rotate and loosen 
          the caps.  Don't worry too much about breaking the caps 
          (famous last words), as they are fairly stout - well, they 
          _are_ just cast iron, so exercise some care.  I seem to 
          recall that I had to wail on mine pretty hard to get them 
          loose.  Application of heat to the manifold should also 
          help.  Replacements are _NOT_ available.
          
          Once you have them out, you may want to slightly open up the 
          hole, however remember that there is no gasket, so don't go 
          overboard.  Upon reinstallation, use a high-temp anti-seize 
          compound to prevent reoccurence.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442 (with tri-power)
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:52:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Cars for sale in Seattle (y-74 indy & '63-88?)

ROB MALLAND wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>     
> 
>     I am only aware of "traderonline" and the "Seattle Times" on the web to
> cruise a lot of ads at once is there any other place I can veiw a lot of ads 
at
> once? (newspapers/clubs/ect...) I wish Hemmings would do as traderonline did-
> that is, to publish all the info about the car and then change you the price 
of
> the mag if you want the phone number.
>     Help me out here people! Thank you.
> 
> Rob Malland   

Rob,

That sounds like a wonderful idea.  I'll send something to Hemmings to 
see if they'll consider it.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  You get half of everything over $1,000,000 they offer me for this 
idea.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:44:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Dip Stick Tube

Dave Isho wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get a broken dip stick tube
> out of my block. It broke off flusk with the block of course...The engine is
> still in the car so removing the oil pan is out of the question.
> 
>  >Dave Isho 

Dave,

If there is no way to get needle nosed vice-grips on it, You might try a 
slide hammer.  There are small ones which accept a screw for that 
dreaded type body work.  If the screw can be twisted into the remains of 
the dip stick tube & then pull the dip stick out far enough the 
vice-grips then.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:58:04 -0300
Subject: FW: To the older members of the Olds list

I vote that the subject lines be better defined.  

However, if anyone would like to start a "1968 C/S Convertible that I bought
before I knew how much trouble it could be to find old Oldsmobile quarter 
panels
and two outer wheelhouses that even remotely fit the rest of the body, since if
I had belonged to the list then I would have known that most of these cars have
rusted dash metal under the windshield for which there is no known cure, which
would be easy to find and buy if it were a Ch**velle or a M**t*ng,  and the
engine wasn't the right year, but I bought it before I joined the list" list,  
I
might be interested.

Gawd, I love this car (well, actually the word car brings to mind a collection
of parts that are more or less attached into a , well, sort of, uh
system...........)


Frank Boerger
'68 C/S Convertible
'68 Coupe-for-parts

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:05:39 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

I have noticed the increase in activity. I am still trying to recover from
Chris Witt leaving the list. Nothing like reading those daily Misc.'s topics
from him.....

At 12:49 PM 9/13/96 -0300, Craig Dobbins wrote:
>Hi guys,
>  Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
>membership size??  I come home in the morning off of my midnight shift, turn 
>on my computer to check my messages, and (usually) find that I have 100-150 
>messages now.  Glad to have new members, but maybe this list should be split 
>into a 442 list, Delta list, etc.  Recently, I've erased more messages 
>without even reading them than I can remember in a long time!!
>
>                                                 Craig.
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:02:49 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> > >Here is the original p/n for the '64 ignition switch: 1116646
> 
> Well, as I have sat here and watched Andrew run to the parts store,
> others striking out, I saw the part number go by and decided to give
> it a try.  I figured I'd have a good a chance as anyone, and jumped
> in.
> 
> I called my parts guy at the loc'l dealer and asked of he were up to
> a challenge.  Described what I was doing (you can do THAT on the
> Internet??), and whipped out the part number.  "Hmmm", he says,
> "that's a discontinued part.  Lemme look around on the locater for
> it.  Call back in 15 minutes."
> 
> 
> If no one is near these guys, I could order it and have it
> shipped to MD, and then off to Esko (if he still wants it....)
> 
> Mike
> '91 W-40 Quad442


Mike,

Nice work.  I don't live near anything living & so cannot help there.  I 
certainly want to tell you thanks for the help to the list.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: RBraden@qualitybio.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:19:08 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Insurance Info?

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?
Author:  Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca> at Internet
Date:    9/13/96 2:37 AM

        I'm not sure about the insurance business in Buffalo, but I'm quite
sure that when I did look into getting insurance w/ J. C Taylor, the broker 
told
me i couldn't drive the car at all except for showing and club parades etc
     
     This is the info. that I received from Taylor and why I picked Hagerty 
     as the most likely possibility.  Although, their qte for a 12K agreed 
     value policy, 2,500 miles/yr was $205 (no club req./modifications OK)
     
     Has anyone had any experience actually utilizing these policies when 
     they had a problem?
     
     Bob Braden / OCA#?
     rbraden@qualitybio.com
     '71 442 coupe
     '72 442 conv. 
     '74 88  conv.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:07:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>=20
> >Okay, I relayed that this morning to the outfit I was talking to
> >yesterday. Bob, the guy I spoke to yesterday who wanted this number,
> >had just left for lunch but I gave them the details to forward to
> >him so we'll see if he calls back.
>=20
> He did. I am now swamped in info on old ignition switches, including
> a faxed page of illustrations. Here we go:
>=20
>I called my local outfit back with this new info
> and they checked their warehouse just now: no luck. Guess we'll have
> to see if an Olds dealer can find one through their locator system...
> Mike?
>=20
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

Andy,

I just read Mike's reply.  You two are just great.  That is wonderful=20
service for a fellow that none of has even seen.  Thanks again. =20

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  If that thanks isn't enough, take one of Greg's as he's gotten at=20
least one that he hasn't earned as yet.
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:07:31 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list 

Hi guys,
  Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
membership size??  

          I agree, but this is a good thing

I come home in the morning off of my midnight shift, turn on my computer to 
check my messages, and (usually) find that I have 100-150 messages now.  
Glad to have new members, but maybe this list should be split into a 442 
list, Delta list, etc.  

          No, I disagree.  As others have said, there is a 
          considerable amount of crossover.  Even an A-body snob like 
          myself considers Toros to be great donor cars :).
          
          Seriously, as with Hemmings, you just never know what you 
          will find until you browse.  Perhaps we could all just show 
          a little more restraint with the "Me too" posts...sort of 
          like this one :).
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

Recently, I've erased more messages without even reading them than I can 
remember in a long time!!
          
                                                 Craig.
          
          

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:05:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info? 

>The only ones that I know to avoid is your regular State Farm, Allstate, 
>etc. which won't actually insure your car for its worth or replacement 
>value.

Er... I'll take _mild_ exception to that and point out that they'll
insure your car for what _they_ think it's worth. The trick is to get
straight ahead of time ("time" = when some idiot bangs into it) what
that value is. You get an appraiser to write it up and send it in, and
they'll insure it for that value at such-and-such a price. They suggest
having it re-appraised every year or two (minimum) to keep everything
current. In return, you get a regular policy with no restrictions like
those of antique or collectors' policies. This is not a criticism of
those companies which specialize in insuring collector cars; it just
boils down to what you want to use the car for.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:10:25 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >BTW, $12 for the part?  Do you think that's '64 prices?
> 
> No, in '64, $12 would get you the whole dashboard.  :-)
> 
> Andrew C. Green           

Andy,

In 1964, I bought a complete but unusable Falcon.  Of course it new.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:11:58 -0300
Subject: Re: sign up for O.C.A. on the web?

ROB MALLAND wrote:
> 
> Hello, I let my suscription to O.A.C. lapse for a year and now I am able to
> actually work on my car- so I need to get back in the swing of things and
> re-sign up with the club...
>     Can I do this online? I have the physical address, but would prefer to 
call
> a number and give my Credit card # or via web or something (snail mail is the
> pits !)
> 
>     Can anybody help?
> 
> Rob Malland  '73-442
> Tacoma, WA   '96-Cutlass Supreme
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------

Please put this information on the list.  I need to do the same thing & 
may not be the only one.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:12:30 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: Cutting down on list traffic 

     Sorry, I normally don't reply to my own messages but one other idea 
     occurred to me.  In addition to a FAQ file (which we have) another way 
     to cut down traffic is to have a site with olds mailing list archives 
     (like by month, one big digest per month).  When a new subscriber 
     comes on they can browse the last few months (or search with any text 
     editor) for an answer to their quesiton.
     
     BTW, if there's all these new people how come I haven't seen any 
     introduction posts?  Come on people, I want to hear about you and your 
     olds!
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com
     
     P.S. Somebody e-mailed me today saying they had a posi for me cheap.  
     The mail I got didn't have a valid return address or a name.  Can you 
     please contact me again and include your e-mail address in the post 
     just in case?
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:12:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutting down on list traffic 

     I don't think splitting is the answer either.  I like the subject 
     idea, and one thing I've seen work on other automotive lists is a 
     once-weekly "for sale" type ad.  This cuts down on cars and parts 
     offered for sale and puts them all in one place.  What happens is one 
     list member volunteers to receive all for-sale ads by personal e-mail 
     and then compiles them into one big posting that's done weekly.
     
     How does that sound?
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/13/96 1:50 PM


Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
> membership size??  
     
It's not just you.  I've notice a lot of new names and the traffic 
appears to have taken a jump after the list was mentioned in a couple of 
recent publications.  Me thinks it will only increase.
     
     

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:28:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Engine weight

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Yes be careful, aluminum intake studs can pull out under the weight of the 
engine.

I'm going to be pulling the engine out of the 442 again so I can finish
detailing the engine compartment and engine. I need to buy an engine stand
and wanted to know which one to buy. What's the ballpark weight of an Old's
350, how bought the 455? 
I was also going to buy one of those intake manifold plates (bolts on where
the carb sits) to use to pull the engine. Should I be concerned using one of
these with an aluminum intake, would that be too much stess on it?

Anyone got a cherry-picker I can borrow? ;)



J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    





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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA198.EC2577C0--

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:42:50 -0300
Subject: List Traffic 

I think the best way to solve this is, as was just mentioned,
care taken to write good subject lines. We've been using 
email at my work for about 14 years, one of the hallmarks
of efficiency is good subject lines.
cf

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:48:07 -0300 
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

Hi guys,
Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
membership size??  I come home in the morning off of my midnight shift, turn on
my computer to check my messages, and (usually) find that I have 100-150
messages now.  Glad to have new members, but maybe this list should be split
into a 442 list, Delta list, etc.  Recently, I've erased more messages without
even reading them than I can remember in a long time!!
Craig.

CRAIG,that would be cool-- or we could put a notice in the SUBJECT column to
the effect of 442/DELTA 88/TORO(wait,we already have that one-but i've seen
some toro msg's in here)

How many people do we have in here?
When was this list started?

(I'm a new suscriber,but I'm very interested in the group development)
ROB MALLAND  '73-442
TACOMA,WA    '96 Cutlass-Supreme

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:30:34 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list 

In a message dated 96-09-13 15:58:52 EDT, you write:

<< o have new members, but maybe this list should be split 
 into a 442 list, Delta list, etc.  Recently, I've erased more messages 
 without even reading them than I can remember in a long time!! >>

I disagree due to that all the people here can share info on their Olds, 
such as engine builds, exhaust, rearends,  electrical problems, interiors,
and ect. ect. ect.     

Just cruise and delete like I do but have a choice


W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:24:01 -0300
Subject: Re: 1973 Olds Cutlass and 442

Bill Culp wrote:

> I owe it all to being a mentally retarded teacher.  Or is that a
> teacher of the mentally retarded.  I never could get that straight.

That's OK, Bill.  Neither could the students.  ...or the Greg(g)s.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:15:20 -0300
Subject: Hi beam fix? 

This used to be alternators, but I'm interested in how I might be
able to wire a relay into the high beam circuit so they won't 
cycle the circuit breaker.

First, is this a rare problem? It's been a flaw in my car since
birth (according to my Dad). I've changed the wiring harness 
completely, so I'm inclined to think of this problem being a 
design flaw in the 66 big car circuit rather than a unique
problem in my 98. Further, I've changed the switch (with
intrgral circuit breaker, I think) a few times so if 'twas
a bad switch, I think I'd've solved it. 

Second, since I'm running halogens and they run at lower 
voltage/amperage (please correct me on this point) wouldn't
that lessen the occurrence of tripping the circuit breaker?
hmm...

Third, what would be a good factory fix rather than adding 
complexity it possible: work from the switch to wiring in the
floor switch then trace to lights?

If I _do_ run a relay how would I wire it? I so-so familiar
with the wiring and o.k. with a soldering gun/heat shrink
tubing and so forth, but know nothing about what to tap and
how to have it be switchable off the factory foot switch.

Look forward to your (electronically inclined) thoughts.
thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:23:48 -0300
Subject: Hi Beam Cycling 

Mike,
you asked what I do to get them back on again after they've shorted?

I turn them to low beam and wait for the circuit breaker to cool.

High tech huh?

Looking forward to a wiring problem this weekend...
cf

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:29:05 -0300
Subject: Great bunch on this list (was dip stick tube) 

Once again you folks have helped me out of a bind. I had been putzing with
this dip stick tube on and off for 2 days. To the people who recommended
using a dent puller...kudos. On the third hit (pull), the tube came out.
Thanks again and I bet it wasn't just Cutlass people who knew this. This
list can't be split up or you'd loose a ton of valuable info. Thanks again!!

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:32:47 -0300
Subject: Daily Driver 

In a message dated 96-09-13 15:01:20 EDT, you write:


>  I don't know about you, but I never put more than 2000 miles per season on
my 
>  '68 442 convert, in fact, I never even drive it unless I can put the top 
>  down!  If I remember correctly, you live around the Toronto area, so your 
>  winter are like mine (Buffalo).  You may drive yours more than me though.
 A 
> 
>  saturday and sunday vehicle here.
>  
>                                                         Craig Dobbins

Hello,

No matter what people might say or think about California, I live in San Jose
about one hour south of San Francisco, and the weather here is great all year
long!! I get to drive my motorcycle and 68 convertible all year! (Sorry about
you guys and gals elsewhere, but I used to live in the Bronx, so I know what
those winters are like) And no, I don't work for the San Jose Chamber of
Commerce!!

My top has shrunk, and won't go up properly, it's been like that for over a
year now! Other than a couple of really good sunburns, I haven't minded.

Just Phil here, California dreamin...............

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:32:50 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 

In a message dated 96-09-13 15:47:01 EDT, you write:

> This little stunt we pulled off is pretty cool, IMHO, if you stop
>  to look at a map and consider all the people and countries involved,
>  don'tcha think?

I haven't posted a great amount of messages, but I read them all. I have been
thinking for a while now, how lucky we all are to be a part of such a group
of caring and knowledgable friends.

Thanks,

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:43:40 -0300
Subject: Convertibles 

Echo Phil in a big way on California and convertibles, we may get 
swallowed up by the earth while rolling along, but at least we
go in style.
cf (66 98 conv)

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:54:58 -0300
Subject: RE: Cutting down on list traffic

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA1AE.659A19C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think splitting the list is a good idea. Those that want both can =
simply subscribe to both. Why don't we put it to a vote and settle it =
once and for all.

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Friday, September 13, 1996 10:12 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Cutting down on list traffic


     I don't think splitting is the answer either.  I like the subject=20
     idea, and one thing I've seen work on other automotive lists is a=20
     once-weekly "for sale" type ad.  This cuts down on cars and parts=20
     offered for sale and puts them all in one place.  What happens is =
one=20
     list member volunteers to receive all for-sale ads by personal =
e-mail=20
     and then compiles them into one big posting that's done weekly.
    =20
     How does that sound?
    =20
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/13/96 1:50 PM


Craig Dobbins wrote:
>=20
> Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's=20
> membership size?? =20
    =20
It's not just you.  I've notice a lot of new names and the traffic=20
appears to have taken a jump after the list was mentioned in a couple of =

recent publications.  Me thinks it will only increase.
    =20
    =20




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------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:56:43 -0300
Subject: Parts

Seeing as there are a lot of new members I'll ask again. Does anyone =
have an antenna, or front fenders for a 69 Cutlass. Please e-mail me =
directly with any 69 parts you may have.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:04:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Die Cast Models JL 500 

In a message dated 96-09-12 22:59:01 EDT, you write:

> So JL will make a total of 7 different sets such as 1-6 series and 
>  the original colors.

So, you mean I have to keep looking???  UUURRGGGHHHH!  I'll be living at Toy
R Us, Kay Bee and WalMart!  Can these things be order factory direct?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:30:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Daily Driver

DESIMONEP@aol.com wrote:
> 
> No matter what people might say or think about California, I live in 
> San Jose about one hour south of San Francisco, and the weather here is 
> great all year long!! 

No matter what people may say or think about Florida, I live in Tampa and 
the weather here is great all year long.  (one again, he artfully dodges 
posting a "me too")

BUT NO EARTHQUAKES   ...And we now send our storms up the the Carolinas!

> ...I used to live in the Bronx, so I know what those winters are like) 

I used to live in Philly & Harrisburg, so I know...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:45:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Hi Beam Cycling

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> you asked what I do to get them back on again after they've shorted?
> I turn them to low beam and wait for the circuit breaker to cool.
> High tech huh?

Functional, certainly.  So we DO have a thermal breaker that's cycling.  
I believe you said that it's already been swapped, so we can assume the 
breaker's not the problem.  The halogens shouldn't present a problem 
either ,so that only leaves wiring.  Is it possible that both the high 
and low beams are on at the same time?  This *could* cause this (he says, 
grabbing at straws).

To the relay thing:  wire one side of the coil to ground, the other side 
to the lamp circuit.  That is, you are replacing the lamps with the relay 
coil.  Wire the lamps to a set of normally open contacts (open with no 
juice on the coil).  One side to 12V, the other to the lamps.  I'd use a 
relay with contacts rated at LEAST 20 amps.  It would be better to use a 
relay with two sets of contacts, one side on each set of contacts.  Keep 
in mind that this does not include any protection from shorts.  You may 
want to wire a in-line fuse holder in series with each lamp.  With 100 
watts at 12 volts -- a 10 amp fuse should do.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:32:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutting down on list traffic

Chris Urban wrote:
> 
> I think splitting the list is a good idea. Those that want both can simply 
subscribe to both. Why don't we put it to a vote and settle it 
once and for all.

Well...  Me thinks you might want to check that out with Greg B first.
...or figure out who is going to host and maintain a second list.

The 66 Toro and Mike
 

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:36:20 -0300
Subject: Re: FOUND! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964

DESIMONEP@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have been thinking for a while now, how lucky we all are to be a part 
> of such a group of caring and knowledgable friends.

You betcha, Phil.  In spite of my pokes-in-the-ribs at times, I wouldn't 
miss this for the world.  Have a hell of a weekend, folks!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:51:15 -0300
Subject: Re: MISC: List Traffic

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> I think the best way to solve this is, as was just mentioned, care 
> taken to write good subject lines. We've been using email at my work 
> for about 14 years, one of the hallmarks of efficiency is good subject 
> lines.

Exactly!  I see no reason why we all (me and Andy included) can't start a 
subject line with a few letters/numbers to indicate the applicability of 
the post.

For example: "442", "98", "Quad", "Part", "Joke", "Misc", "Gen", etc.

Anybody got a problem with that?

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:43:49 -0300
Subject: Hurst Olds 442 rear end -Reply 

Try bigger tires maybe...

>>> Curt Chesnut <cchesnut@interramp.com> 09/09/96 09:49pm >>>
My son has a '72 Hurst Olds 442 (I just do the work).  The problem is that
it is turning 4+K when he is going 55-60 mph.  What are the best
(cheapest and easiest) swaps and how difficult is it to do (any special
tools, etc)

Thanks for any help

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:07:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts

Chris,
What all do you need? Do you need the entire antenna assy. or just the mast? E 
mail me at my address with your list, and I'll give you prices.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: WJV117@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:12:05 -0300
Subject: Mail List 

Unsubscribe to Mailing List

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:09:35 -0300
Subject: Re: MISC: List Traffic 

Its just that very few people take the courtesy to do that, and if they do
its not for long.


At 12:51 AM 9/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Chris Fair wrote:
>> 
>> I think the best way to solve this is, as was just mentioned, care 
>> taken to write good subject lines. We've been using email at my work 
>> for about 14 years, one of the hallmarks of efficiency is good subject 
>> lines.
>
>Exactly!  I see no reason why we all (me and Andy included) can't start a 
>subject line with a few letters/numbers to indicate the applicability of 
>the post.
>
>For example: "442", "98", "Quad", "Part", "Joke", "Misc", "Gen", etc.
>
>Anybody got a problem with that?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:19:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Vin # 

In a message dated 96-09-13 13:21:48 EDT, you write:

> ST69   33667LAN434727  BDY
>  TR      944              75    B    PNT
>            07A
>  
>  Thank you (In advance)

Sure

ST69 means its a '69
3 - Oldsmobile
3667 - Cutlass S convertible
LAN - Lansing plant
434727 - body unit number
TR 944 - Gold Moroceen Vinyl Interior Trim
75 - That's interesting, my color and fabric book has all the colors as
letters.  My '70 book lists 75 as Matador Red.  The code I have for Aztec
Gold (seen in another post) is J.
B - this is interesting too.  The book lists the convertible and vinyl top
codes as numbers, not letter.  From what I know of earlier cars, B has been
black.  '69 looks like a transitional year for the codes, so who knows.
07A - First week of July ('69 by the looks of your body unit number)

Sorry, no concrete info on the color codes.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:22:27 -0300
Subject: Engine Hoist etiquette (was Re: more on "pocket rocket") 

At 10:19 AM 9/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, I don't reckon that that 350 got hurt when it fell-- Because it runs!!!

Good for you! They're pretty tough puppies (or at least I hope; I just
dumped a 4A head on the ground last week while disassembling my old 403.
Took a chunk out of the garage concrete; head seems fine)

>weekend I'm going back by the junkyard and I'm going to measure stuff.  To 
>the person who asked whether it is better to push or pull an engine hoist:  
>both of the ones I rented had 2 legs in the from rather than one, but it 
>seemed easier to pull it towards me from the back than to push it.  !!Make 
>sure that you have somebody with you to keep the motor from swaying as you 
>move it, with a 455, getting the motor swaying could have disasterous 
results!!
>The second cherry-picker I rented had a handle made for pulling it along 
>from behind-- this was very handy!

Of course, you do _lower_ the engine to just a couple inches off the ground
as soon as it clears the engine bay, right? *AND* you are doing this on a
flat surface? And you swept the ground of all branches/rocks/sand that can
interrupt the smooth travel of your engine?

And when you go to spin a motor upside down on an engine stand, _STAND
CLEAR_ in case a top-heavy motor unexpectedly swings over and the alternator
bracket (which should have been removed) takes a chunk out of your shin.

Not that *I* ever had to dodge a 455 coming down at me from 4' high, on a
sloping driveway...  ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:22:30 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list 

At 05:48 PM 9/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi guys,
>Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's 
>membership size??  I come home in the morning off of my midnight shift, turn 
on

Actually I was wondering why traffic has been kinda light (but that was a
server problem). There was a point when this list was putting out about 120
messages a day, but 90% of that consisted of posts by the same eight people
(you all know who you were...;)

After this same discussion, it was decided to cut down on the "me too" and
"yeah, I agree" posts (there was a LOT of that!).

Then we sorta dropped down to around 40-60 posts a day, then school started
up, everybody got free access to the internet again (us professors
included), and now we're up to 100-140 posts a day again. This will slack
off as people begin to spend too much time here, get caught by their bosses,
miss exams, get fired or expelled, etc. 

Also, it will happen that gradually we'll all finally finish our Olds
projects, talk about everything Oldsmobile that there is to talk about, read
the FAQ, etc., and traffic will slow down again.

>CRAIG,that would be cool-- or we could put a notice in the SUBJECT column to
>the effect of 442/DELTA 88/TORO(wait,we already have that one-but i've seen
>some toro msg's in here)

The origin of the Toronado list was an informal mailing list (people created
a "nickname" containing all "subscribers") to treat the "Toro-specific"
questions that us early Toro guys had to face, but which were not of much
interest to non-Toro owners (especially since us Toro guys seem to be, uh,
pretty vocal ;). This worked out pretty well, but became cumbersome as more
people kept buying Toros (and who says there is a shortage of taste in the
world today? ;)  It was meant to reduce the traffic on the main Olds list,
but not to replace it. In fact, most posts about cams and carbs, heads and
blocks (you know, what the Toro has in common with other Olds') are to be
found on the main Olds list, not the Toro list.

>How many people do we have in here?

NOT ENOUGH!

>When was this list started?

Gosh, almost two years ago? There was a post on the r.a.r-n-c and r.a.t
newsgroups asking if anyone was interested in Oldsmobiles; after about a
dozen-and-a-half "yes" and "me too" replies, the list was started. That's
when I've joined (been through three e-mail addresses since I've joined).
I've been on a few lists, and this is by far the best.

>(I'm a new suscriber,but I'm very interested in the group development)

Oh, and it _used_ to be customary for a new subscriber to send an "INTRO-
New Member" post, describing the person and the cars that brought them to
this list (past and present). A few people have done it, but I'd like to
hear from all the new people at least once, even if they just lurk for the
next year (as I did).

>ROB MALLAND  '73-442
>TACOMA,WA    '96 Cutlass-Supreme
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:02:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday  

	      Sports   Sedan) -Reply

>Okay. Any volunteers want to go to the local Trak Auto and buy Esko a
>switch? I kind of think it'll be cheaper for one of us to do that and drop it
>in the mail to him than for him to try and order it from his end...?

Not necessarily.  You might be able to parcel post it and send it on the
slow boat for about $15 -- but it would take 4-6 weeks to get there.  And
if you send it UPS, it's gonna cost you big.  Like $30 - $40...  And if it gets
hung up in customs, it could still take 3 weeks to get there.  (I used to
work in a shipping room...)

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 23:08:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile ID Book 

At 11:23 PM 9/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-11 23:04:49 EDT, you write:
>
>> Pretty good.  Although, I think that Roger M. Borlase (post below) had the
>>  color right: bamboo.  At least, it resembles bamboo more than any thing
>I'd
>>  call honey; but, there may not be much difference between the two.
>
>Trust me.  That color info came right out of the Dealer Color and Trim Album.
> 81 was Bamboo in the '72 book, but its Honey Beige in the '73.  New names
>fool people into thinking that the color engineers are developing new colors.
>
>Paul

Those pesky marketing guys...;)


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:30:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutting down on list traffic

Chris Urban wrote:
> 
> I think splitting the list is a good idea. Those that want both can simply 
subscribe to both. Why don't we put it to a vote and settle it 
once and for all.
> 
> ----------
> From:   Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
> Sent:   Friday, September 13, 1996 10:12 AM
> To:     oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject:        Re: Cutting down on list traffic
> 
>      I don't think splitting is the answer either.  I like the subject
>      idea, and one thing I've seen work on other automotive lists is a
>      once-weekly "for sale" type ad.  This cuts down on cars and parts
>      offered for sale and puts them all in one place.  What happens is one
>      list member volunteers to receive all for-sale ads by personal e-mail
>      and then compiles them into one big posting that's done weekly.
> 
>      How does that sound?
> 
>      Tom L.
> 
> ______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
> Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list
> Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
> Date:    9/13/96 1:50 PM
> 
> Craig Dobbins wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me, or are you noticing that our list has grown in it's
> > membership size??
> 
> It's not just you.  I've notice a lot of new names and the traffic
> appears to have taken a jump after the list was mentioned in a couple of
> recent publications.  Me thinks it will only increase.
> 
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>              Attachment 2      Type: application/ms-tnef
>                            Encoding: base64


Everyone may know that I am on the Toro list as well as this one.  The 
truth is that I am on the other list because of the people there as much 
as the Toro subject.  I like Oldsmobiles & am willing to go w/2 lists 
even though the messages are high in number.

If the list is split I have several problems:

	1. How do I subscribe to each & handle the email?
	2. There isn't anyone that I don't want to hear from (except 
	   Greg & you know who you are even though I don't & probably 
	   never will).
	3. Cars are cars & I learn a great deal just listening even if I 
	   will never own that particular model.
	4. There is so much expertise on the list; who gets the 
	   electronics expert?  Who gets the historian?  Who gets the 
	   differential specialist?  Who gets....
	5. Someone will get Greg (whoever that is - you know who you 
	   are).

I support the unity of the list.  I can read books, go to shows,  work 
in my barn, or in any number of ways enjoy an Oldsmobile.  The list or a 
club such as OCA is the source of comradship, sharing, & joking about 
Oldsmobiles.  My dog or grandmother won't help me there - they don't 
understand.  It is just an 'Oldsmobile thing'.

It seems that organization can be the solution.  Subject headings can 
help here.  Being respectful of bandwidth is very important.  Being 
tolerant of each other is mandatory.  I am for developing some 
organization that can lead to fulfillment for everyone's interests as 
the best solution.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:58:03 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> 
> Then we sorta dropped down to around 40-60 posts a day, then school started
> up, everybody got free access to the internet again (us professors
> included), and now we're up to 100-140 posts a day again. This will slack
> off as people begin to spend too much time here, get caught by their bosses,
> miss exams, get fired or expelled, etc.


I can't believe that I agree w/you Bob.  I really believe that the die 
hards will stay & the casual observers will come & go; sometimes as a 
seasonal thing.

> 
> Also, it will happen that gradually we'll all finally finish our Olds
> projects, talk about everything Oldsmobile that there is to talk about, read
> the FAQ, etc., and traffic will slow down again.
> 

> 
> The origin of the Toronado list was an informal mailing list (people created
> a "nickname" containing all "subscribers") to treat the "Toro-specific"
> questions that us early Toro guys had to face, but which were not of much
> interest to non-Toro owners (especially since us Toro guys seem to be, uh,
> pretty vocal ;). This worked out pretty well, but became cumbersome as more
> people kept buying Toros (and who says there is a shortage of taste in the
> world today? ;)  It was meant to reduce the traffic on the main Olds list,
> but not to replace it. 


The Toro list is as much social as technical.  Most serious items go to 
the Olds list as they apply to many Oldsmobiles & a large share of the 
expertise sources are there.


> >How many people do we have in here?
> 
> NOT ENOUGH!


True - we agree again!  There are never too many ideas or suggestions.

> 

> Oh, and it _used_ to be customary for a new subscriber to send an "INTRO-
> New Member" post, describing the person and the cars that brought them to
> this list (past and present). A few people have done it, but I'd like to
> hear from all the new people at least once, even if they just lurk for the
> next year (as I did).


The Toro list has an information list on each member.  This helps figure 
out who is who, where the cars are, where the expertise is, 7 makes a 
wonderful directory.  Can we start one here?  

Sorry Bob.  I promise not to agree again for at least 3 months.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:35:07 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list 

At 05:58 PM 9/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>> included), and now we're up to 100-140 posts a day again. This will slack
>> off as people begin to spend too much time here, get caught by their bosses,
>> miss exams, get fired or expelled, etc.
>
>I can't believe that I agree w/you Bob.  I really believe that the die 
>hards will stay & the casual observers will come & go; sometimes as a 
>seasonal thing.

Yeah, the same ten people who took up 90% of the bandwidth still take up
about 50% of the questions and answers: Andy, Greg, Bob, Greg, Bill, Greg,
Joe, Greg and Greg.

>> The origin of the Toronado list was an informal mailing list (people created
[snip of Toro list genesis]
>The Toro list is as much social as technical.  Most serious items go to 
>the Olds list as they apply to many Oldsmobiles & a large share of the 
>expertise sources are there.

Yeah, the way the Toro list runs is a lot like the original Olds list: some
q&a, jokes, me-too's, lots of b.s., all in fun. Hope it stays that way
(we'll just have to boot anyone who complains, right? :)

>> >How many people do we have in here?
>> 
>> NOT ENOUGH!
>
>True - we agree again!  There are never too many ideas or suggestions.
[snip]
>Sorry Bob.  I promise not to agree again for at least 3 months.

No, no, no, you got me confused with another person on the list. Here's the
rundown, in case you've come late to class:

Andy: disagrees with Greg
Greg: disagrees with Bill
Bill: disagrees with Andy and Greg
Bob: only guy without four letters in his name, agrees with everybody
(I offered to change my name to Bobb, but Gregg didn't approve... ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:40:40 -0300
Subject: Headlight anomole... 

I have a prob with my headlights that I can't finger out.  I was hoping that
some of you electrical wizards could help...

Low beams work correctly.  When I switch to high beams, both the lights
on the driver's side go out, and both the lights on the passenger
side come on (See Diagram below).  I haven't changed the wiring at all. 
I've changed all the lights. That wasn't the prob.   Could it be the dimmer
switch?  Or do I maybe have a short in the wiring?  Thanks for any help.

Diagram  (x = light on, o = light off)
- -----------------------------------------
Low Beams -->   |xo|####|ox|
- -----------------------------------------
High Beams -->   |xx|####|oo|
- -----------------------------------------

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 02:15:38 -0300
Subject: RE: Headlight anomole... 

Check green wire on left side bulbs.  Had a problem with that on my '72 
Cutlass Cruiser.

Roger Borlase
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 04:25:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Parts

I ordered my factory GM antenna from Year One.  Mine had a after market one 
on it, and I decided to replace it.  Fenders for a '69 were quite plentiful 
in my last stroll through Halls in July.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

 ----------
<Seeing as there are a lot of new members I'll ask again. Does anyone =
<have an antenna, or front fenders for a 69 Cutlass. Please e-mail me =
<directly with any 69 parts you may have.

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 04:25:00 -0300
Subject: Re2: Vin #, and a vote needed

Thanks guys,
Gotta hand it to you.  You did pretty good.  It is originally gold with a 
gold interior, white top (although the person I bought it from painted it a 
teal green color, and that is what it currently is).  I will be getting it 
repainted next year after I finish the engine, suspension, rear end, very 
minor body work, and stripping the paint off.  I would like to open this up 
for discussion to help me make my mind up on the final color it will be. 
 First off, I'm not too fond of gold on a car, unless it is on a H/O (and 
it's not), and with a gold interior it leaves me with little other choices. 
 I have it down to either near original gold with a bit more metal flake 
than original, or a metalic red which is what I am kinda leaning towards. 
 Whichever it is, it will be done right.  Currently, the engine is out, and 
I have removed the entire front clip, and degreased everything.  After I 
have completed the front suspension, sanded the frame, firewall, and all 
exposed components in the engine compartment, and had all the miscellaneous 
parts sandblasted and primored (Radiator support, upper and lower control 
arms, hood hinges, and the metal piece on top that covers the fan shrowd and 
radiator), I am going to tow it to a place around the corner that I have 
arranged to paint it, to have them paint the engine compartment.  Then I can 
put the engine back in when it is finished.
***Let me know what YOU think, should I keep it semi original color, or 
please myself (and wife), and go with metalic red?**

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

 ----------
> ST69   33667LAN434727  BDY
>  TR      944              75    B    PNT
>            07A
>

'69 year.  3 -> olds 3667 -> Cutlass v-8 conververtable.
Lan -> Lansing, Mi plant	434727-> number of car to come out of that
plant that year.  944 -> trim code  07a -> built first week in July.
75 -> Aztec Gold exerior B  -> Gold converible top?

Roger
_________________
ST69 means its a '69
3 - Oldsmobile
3667 - Cutlass S convertible
LAN - Lansing plant
434727 - body unit number
TR 944 - Gold Moroceen Vinyl Interior Trim
75 - That's interesting, my color and fabric book has all the colors as
letters.  My '70 book lists 75 as Matador Red.  The code I have for Aztec
Gold (seen in another post) is J.
B - this is interesting too.  The book lists the convertible and vinyl top
codes as numbers, not letter.  From what I know of earlier cars, B has been
black.  '69 looks like a transitional year for the codes, so who knows.
07A - First week of July ('69 by the looks of your body unit number)

Paul

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 06:28:40 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list 

>In a message dated 96-09-13 15:58:52 EDT, you write:
>
><< o have new members, but maybe this list should be split 
> into a 442 list, Delta list, etc.  Recently, I've erased more messages 
> without even reading them than I can remember in a long time!! >>
>
>I disagree due to that all the people here can share info on their Olds, 
>such as engine builds, exhaust, rearends,  electrical problems, interiors,
>and ect. ect. ect.     
>
>Just cruise and delete like I do but have a choice

     Yes, I agree completely (me too posting, here...)  I currently have
over 12 Meg of postings stuck on my computer, and I've wiped out over 4Meg
in the last couple days.  It's a lot of deleting, but it's really cool to
know there is something cool there to delete in the first place !  (?...)
As for the idea of splitting up the list, I don't like that idea.  I am a
die-hard car fan and I don't much care ~what~ the last name is.  Just as
long as the first name is Oldsmobile, I'm happy!  I have a great respect for
the rest of the Olds clan (ya know, that elite supremecy thing...) and I
think we'd all be better off sticking together.  
     There is a Toro list out there now, and I think this branch is not a
good thing.  Toros have many similarities with all the rest of the cars on
this list, so many of the "help me" postings can be of value to both sets of
readers.  The problem now is that each reader would have to subscribe to
~both~ lists to find all the information we're getting here.  If we branched
off further, we'd need to subscribe to all of them, or we'd feel like we
were missing out on something.  We'd probably be getting even more postings
than current, since there would be the "me too's" ~and~ redundant postings
of each seperate list.   
     
    
******* For those that skipped all the rambling and jumped to the bottom,
here's the main point I'm getting at:  I'm strongly in favor of leaving the
list as it is, and maybe a few clearer subjects (they've been good) and
don't whine about the delete button.  If you don't get mail, you must not
have any friends, right?  Sooooo...  We all have a s@@@load of friends here,
so ~keep in touch~ and post away!

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:54:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Headlight anomole... 

Check your GROUNDS!!!! I could never stress anything more important.
I've had several electrical probs on my 72 cutlass and almost every one of
them have been ground related. The first problem was the wipers only ran on
high speed, but were not constant. it turned out to be a ground. The blower
fan for the heater quit working. GROUND. Taillights weren't working properly;
Ground. You follow?With one
exception, all of my electrical problems had something to do with a
bad/faulty ground. Good luck!!!


Katana 72            It's NOT you father's Oldsmobile    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:00:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds 442 rear end -Reply 

If taller tires don't work, a ring and pinion swap might be easiest. They're
avaiable from ASAP, JEGS, Etc. No major special tools should be needed.If you
don't keep the rear end, do you want to swap? Mine is a limited slip 2.73
gear rear end in my 72 cutlass and I could really like something like the one
you have.

Katana72          It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!          Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:03:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Headlight anomole...

Blaine, at the risk of stating the obvious, are you sure the bulbs on the 
left side are good? What you describe would be consistent with a pair of 
bad lamps on the left side. I know you've changed them, but it's not 
unheard of for new lights to be bad. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:08:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Re2: Vin #, and a vote needed

What exterior color goes with a gold interior? Let's think...
- - Black
- - White
- - Gold
- - Dark green
- - Shades of brown
- - Dark reds (maybe...)
- - Dark blues (very maybe...)

Can't think of any others.

Personally, I'm not keen on the idea of a red/gold combo. If it was me I 
think I'd go with one of the basics. I kind of like the look of a '69 in 
black myself.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:26:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Re2: Vin #, and a vote needed

Interior vote:
Black
White
Gold
I have a picture of a 70 W30 convt. that a Doctor in Fla. is restoring. It is 
originally Gold with red stripes. Unusual, but not exactly my choice of color 
combinations. (Hope Dr. Tom isn't offended).

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:17:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease?

Roger Hitson writes:
>I used to buy a silicone paste lube in a small tube from NAPA. I used it for 
>seals around a T-top car and it worked very well - held up to heat, sun, 
>etc., better than Vaseline or ArmorAll & similar.
>
>When I first tried to buy this product, the NAPA parts guys told me just to 
>use Vaseline or ArmorAll. At my insistence they ordered the product I 
>eventually purchased through them. Seems they didn't stock it.
>
>Don't remember for sure, but believe it was a NAPA brand label.

I wouldn't advise the widespread use of silicon for this. The NAPA guys 
were right when they advised ArmorAll or a similar product. They may have 
not known the real reasons for not using silicone but here are some 
reasons for you.

Silicone degrades (read destroys) certain materials. Certain types (not 
all) of plastics (i.e. nylon), rubbers, rubber derivatives (i.e. 
santoprene) can be degraded. These materials can lose their "cohesive" 
properties and virtually crumble in your hands. I would use with caution 
as it may go on nice on the weather seals on your car, it may destroy the 
seals on your friends.

Another HUGE tip, don't get silicone on metal, you will pay the devil 
himself to get it off properly. If you attempt to paint the metal that 
has trace amounts of silicone, the paint will not stick.


Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:43:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Headlight anomole...

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> Or do I maybe have a short in the wiring?

Not likely or you'd be blowing fuses.  

Switch the lamps between the two sides.  If the problem says on the same 
side, you've got a switch/relay/wiring problem.  

Remember that the "low" beam has dual filaments.  That is, it is both a 
high and low beam lamp.  SO if BOTH highs are going out, again it points 
to a wiring problem.

Dimmer switch?  Maybe... if it has separate connections for each side.  
If so swap the connection and see if the problem goes to the other side.
If so: switch.  If not: wiring.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:52:34 -0300
Subject: Generator Condensor, list stuff (kinda long)...

	Hey everybody!
I piped something about this off earlier in the week, but I think it got
Lost In (Cyber)Space somehow.  Anyway, I had a question about the
generator in my '60 (actually one out of a 62).  I just finished restoring
the thing, but now I have a problem-- There is a condensor (yes, almost
exactly like, if not exactly like the one that goes with your distributor)
that mounts to the side of the generator, and the wire goes to one of the
terminals.  Heres the problem: in my infintite wisdome I forgot to mark
which terminal it goes to (field coil or armachure).  I usually remember
to do these sorts of things (if it looks like I won't remember), but this
time it slipped my mind.  Any ideas?  Any ideas what it's supposed to do?

	Also, when I had it apart, I cleaned both of the aluminium ends in
solvent, and washed out all of the grease in the bearings.  I packed them
again with Lubraplate, thinking that wheel bearing grease would be too
thick (causing too much drag).  Now I'm wondering if that was the best
choice...any ideas?  

	Oh, and a tip for anyone who needs to get their generator apart:
if the pulley nut is stuck, and an oil filter wrench won't fit on it (like
mine), you can wrap a tow strap or something similar around the fan/pulley
so that it tightens when you loosen the pulley nut.  Worked like a charm
on mine.  I just wrapped an old busted tow strap on the fan like that, and
then wrapped it allaround the vise I had the generator in 
(it was'nt going *anywhere* :) and started tweaking the ratchet.  Poof it
was off.

	And finally, on the matter of reducing list traffic,
(dejavou...did'nt we just have this discussion??) I would have to agree
that there are some things that should be done, ie. using clear subject
lines, avoiding the dreaded "mee too" postings (is this part one?) and of
course snipping all the useless stuff from messages.  But then, thats what
we've been saying since this started to be a problem (long time ago).

	On the subject line thing, I realize that much of what people
write is spontanious and in a hurry, and thats cool, but it really does
only take a second to change a subject line in a thread.  It seems like
lately there have been some threads that have evolved from the original
subject "Q-Jet plugs leaking" to "Barney the purple demon stole my 442!!"
(well...not quite, but you know what I mean) without the subject ever
changing from the original subject line.  I guess that would be my main
beef with this whole thing.  I don't think that we would even need to get
as specific as 
	
	Subject:'60, 98, wiring, gen light, headache, sledgehammer, angry
girlfriend...

just as long as it's clear what it's about in the first place.     


	Anyway, I'll get off the soapbox for now.  Greg, what do you
think? 
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
	

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:55:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds 442 rear end -Reply 

>Mine is a limited slip 2.73 gear rear end in my 72 cutlass and I could 
>really like something like the one you have.

If you get another set of gears, I'd like to buy your posi.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser ... 160 hp of pure Oldsmobile fun
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:24:05 -0300
Subject: 72 Cutlass Cruiser

Roger,
Only the chosen few drive a Cutlass Cruiser. I like mine better than my 70 4 
speed convt.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:38:23 -0300
Subject: RE: 72 Cutlass Cruiser 

>Roger,
>Only the chosen few drive a Cutlass Cruiser. I like mine better than my 70 4 
>speed convt.

Thanks Art.  I put a mention of yours in my web page about it 
(http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html").  I would like to put some 
more info about yours and possibly a graphic.  I'd also like the info from the 
firewall tag.   This would show whose was built first, colors and other stuff. 

It's up to you, but you can email the info to me directly 
(borlase@gordonc.edu).

Roger Borlase
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:40:36 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 cutlass signal lense (and info) needed  -Reply 

No, Paul.  He's talking about the side marker lens... not the one in the
bumper.  =)  However, if you have a set of those clear round bumper
lenses that are un-broken that you'd want to sell, I'd be interested...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

>>> <PHartlieb@aol.com> 09/12/96 09:20pm >>>
In a message dated 96-09-12 19:32:41 EDT, you write:

> If anyone has an extra turn signal lense or assembly they want to sell
>  please e-mail me.
>   >  Thanks a bunch.
>   >  Greg Pruett
>  `72 Vista-Cruiser  >  

I think I have an extra lens in the garage.  It's not amber tho.  It's clear, 
the
bulb is amber.  Why don't you think it can be re-attached to the
assembly?  Where are you?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:42:43 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

All,

While I agree with the majority of what Charley Buehner wrote -- not 
splitting the list, better subject lines -- but I find his comment that 
"There is a Toro list out there now, and I think this branch is not a 
good thing." is interesting.

Yeah, the Toros do have more similarities than differences but the 
differences in the cars wasn't the only reason for the Toro list.  And 
keep in mind, there IS far more difference between a Toro and a Cutlass 
than between a Cutlass and a 442.

A number of the Toro guys, myself included, simply felt that the main 
list was getting a little too rigid.  (Yes, we knew the rules.)

While I understand that due to the growth of the main list, it became 
almost necessary to be this way, some of us got a little tired of getting 
jumped on, or seeing others getting jumped on, for non-Olds posts.  It 
would seem that what was, and what was not, appropriate varied with the 
weather, the day of the week, and who sent the post.

So we started a second list dedicated to Toronados, with fewer members, 
and a somewhat less formal format.  So while Charlie may not feel it's a 
good thing, we do.

Charlie said, "The problem now is that each reader would have to 
subscribe to ~both~ lists to find all the information we're getting 
here." 

Nobody on the Toro list has expressed that sentiment and that's who is 
most affected by it.

Again, I agree with Charley.  The list should not be split -- certainly 
not along the lines as was suggested.

> We all have a s@@@load of friends here...

Yes, we do.  Even Sparky...   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

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