To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/05/96 12:52:42 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #321


oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 5 October 1996      Volume 01 : Number 321


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:25:35 -0300
Subject: Questions 

I was wondering if the switch pitch converters in TH400s are different from
the switch pitch in the Jetaway? (diameter and RPM ranges)I am looking for
a converter for the Apprehender with slightly higher stall than the
original one but still want to retain the switch pitch feature.

Do any aftermarket vendors have switch pitch converters? I have already
checked with B&M and they dont.

ALSO...  was there ever a Radio Delete cover plate available for '70-'72
Cutlass? I want to cover the radio cutouts in the dash with a cover plate
that looks stock.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: yaron <awol5690@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:22:09 -0300
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe me

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:34:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Questions 

At 01:25 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Do any aftermarket vendors have switch pitch converters? I have already
>checked with B&M and they dont.
>
A friend of mine got one for his GS400 (or was it a GS455?) from Kenne-Bell
(don't have any info on them).

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:42:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 442 Bumper

On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Dave Isho wrote:
> The Bumper shop in Los Angeles quoted me $250 including a core for a front
> or rear bumper for my 67 C/S a couple of years ago ($25.00 shipping on the
> new bumper) I can't imagine their prices have gone up that much since
> then...let me know if you want the address & phone.

If these are "The Bumper Boyz" known as Robert and Carlos you're 
referring to - and I believe it is the same operation - I'd advise 
caution. When I was restoring my '68 I looked for a rear bumper for about 
a month and they were the only place I could find one. Same price as 
yours. I asked "is it show chrome?" and the lady said of course. I 
swallowed hard and ordered it. It was very disappointing. Copper showed 
through the plating around both taillight cutouts and one corner had 
bubbles in the chrome which immediately flaked off the first time I 
cleaned it. Returning it really wasn't an option since they are all the 
way out in L.A. and it cost a small fortune to ship here in the first place. 
I don't think the quality of their plating is very good, though I suppose 
its possible that I just got a bad one...

Naturally in the week after I got it, 4 or 5 of the same piece turned up 
in places far closer to home... :(

One of these days I'll replace it with a cutout exhaust 4-4-2 style 
bumper... at least they've given me an excuse for doing that!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:55:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Questions

>I was wondering if the switch pitch converters in TH400s are different from
>the switch pitch in the Jetaway? (diameter and RPM ranges)I am looking for
>a converter for the Apprehender with slightly higher stall than the
>original one but still want to retain the switch pitch feature.
>
>Do any aftermarket vendors have switch pitch converters? I have already
>checked with B&M and they dont.
>
>ALSO...  was there ever a Radio Delete cover plate available for '70-'72
>Cutlass? I want to cover the radio cutouts in the dash with a cover plate
>that looks stock.
>
>       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
>'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
>           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com


Check with Kenne-Bell.   They are Buick specialists,  but I think that they
do have a high stall switch pitch converter.  A Jetstar 88 Jetaway
converter has a slightly higher stall than a cutlass one.

Tony

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:56:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Dallas/Ft. Worth 

At 06:02 AM 10/3/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Incredible rear end.
>

The Car?? :)

J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        


                                    

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:16:37 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 442 Bumper 

At 12:42 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Dave Isho wrote:
>> The Bumper shop in Los Angeles quoted me $250 including a core for a front
>> or rear bumper for my 67 C/S a couple of years ago ($25.00 shipping on the
>> new bumper) I can't imagine their prices have gone up that much since
>> then...let me know if you want the address & phone.
>
>If these are "The Bumper Boyz" known as Robert and Carlos you're 
>referring to - and I believe it is the same operation - I'd advise 
>caution. When I was restoring my '68 I looked for a rear bumper for about 
>a month and they were the only place I could find one. Same price as 
>yours. I asked "is it show chrome?" and the lady said of course. I 
>swallowed hard and ordered it. It was very disappointing. Copper showed 
>through the plating around both taillight cutouts and one corner had 
>bubbles in the chrome which immediately flaked off the first time I 
>cleaned it. Returning it really wasn't an option since they are all the 
>way out in L.A. and it cost a small fortune to ship here in the first place. 
>I don't think the quality of their plating is very good, though I suppose 
>its possible that I just got a bad one...
>
>Naturally in the week after I got it, 4 or 5 of the same piece turned up 
>in places far closer to home... :(
>
>One of these days I'll replace it with a cutout exhaust 4-4-2 style 
>bumper... at least they've given me an excuse for doing that!
>
Well, you just gave me a reason to tear up the card, I spoke to them a
couple of years back and did not see their work, but the card says Robert or
Carlos, so I guess it's the same guys.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:19:07 -0300
Subject: Questions

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------264A10AD4583
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You asked about the switch pitch converter.  Kenne-Bell the Boohick
folks used to sell a kit to convert any TH400 to switch pitch. I looked
into this many years ago for a 68 4-4-2. I would guess that they still
offer all of the goodies for these. As I remember it was all very 
pricey. I no longer have the catalog but I think they were in 
California.

Dave Wyatt   70  4-4-2

- --------------264A10AD4583
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- --------------264A10AD4583--

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:22:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Questions

On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Tony Waldner wrote:

> >I was wondering if the switch pitch converters in TH400s are different from
> >the switch pitch in the Jetaway? (diameter and RPM ranges)I am looking for
> >a converter for the Apprehender with slightly higher stall than the
> >original one but still want to retain the switch pitch feature.

The Jetaway ones have a higher stall, from what I recall.  You can
interchange them.  (ie you can put the Jetaway S/P converter on a TH400
and vice versa)

- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:45:06 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

>Holiday Coupe.  Those cars that were not equipped with Flo-Thru were equipped
>with standard Crank-Operated Vent Windows.  These included Vista Cruisers,
>Cutlass S Sports Coupe, Cutlass Sedan and Cruiser and F-85 Town Seda. 

I have a/c and the Crank Operated Vent Windows.

Roger Borlase
'72 cutlass cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:41:57 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

> There's two Cutlass Cruisers on here, do either of you guys NOT have A/C?
> If so, do you have vents or nothing?

I have A/C but saw a ventless/radio delete '72 Cruiser drag car via a xerox of 
an article that someone sent during the summer.  I'll look at the photo again 
to see what this car had for ventilation.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http:://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:49:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 442 Bumper 

>>> The Bumper shop in Los Angeles quoted me $250 including a core for a front
>>> or rear bumper for my 67 C/S a couple of years ago ($25.00 shipping on the
>>> new bumper) I can't imagine their prices have gone up that much since
>>> then...let me know if you want the address & phone.
>>
>>If these are "The Bumper Boyz" known as Robert and Carlos you're 
>>referring to - and I believe it is the same operation - I'd advise 
>>caution.

I think I've seen their ad in Cars & Parts -- a photo of two guys
beaming with pride and holding a bumper -- and there was a mention
in small print of "formerly known as...[old name here]". Don't
recall offhand the exact name but I think you're talking about them.
I do remember thinking at the time that their new name didn't seem
to be much better than their old one.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:03:31 -0300 
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

>Hmm.  My non-air car has the dash with the center block off plate,
>lower kick panel vents (with those cool slide pulls that most young-uns
>have never seen before :-) but as I recall, no door jamb vents.  The
>rear shelf is solid cardboard too, no vent holes or speaker.

Well, I checked the car again last night and I do indeed have the
door jamb vents.  Must've been thinking of the '72 cutlass I used
to own.

I guess this proves I've owned too many cars in my lifetime, as I
cant keep them straight anymore.  :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:53:27 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

>>Holiday Coupe.  Those cars that were not equipped with Flo-Thru were equipped
>>with standard Crank-Operated Vent Windows.  These included Vista Cruisers,
>>Cutlass S Sports Coupe, Cutlass Sedan and Cruiser and F-85 Town Seda. 
>
>I have a/c and the Crank Operated Vent Windows.

Would it be more accurate to say that the vent windows depend only on
body style? Our old wagon of that series had vent windows regardless
of whether you ordered A/C. Whether or not it had those pull-actuated
kickpanel vents was determined by whether or not it had A/C, though.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:14:41 -0300
Subject: Contact List

That should be
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html
it is NOT on the tripod.com site!
Keep trying, and if you keep having problems, maybe I'll accept the offer 
Bryceman made to me to put this whole thing on his page.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (Not Calvin :-)  ) Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66,000miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85,000miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110,000miles)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:39:26 -0300
Subject: Kenne Bell 

These guys are located east of LA in So. Cal. Check the following area codes:
(818) (619) (310) and (213) to find them. They're in one of the samll towns
east of LA, west of Palm Springs on the either the 10 or 60 FWY's. Hope this
helps...
cf

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:40:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Rechroming Plastic 

Everyone,
  There is a place 2 minutes from where I live that does this plastic/pot 
metal plating.  Anyone who wants info about getting their stuff done, just 
mail me.  I'd be glad to look up the phone # in the book for you.

             
                                                   Craig Dobbins



>Date:		Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:45:51 -0300
>From:	Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Rechroming Plastic
>
>
>Andy,
>I don't know how else to refer to the restoration of plastic covered
>with a chrome plating. Not trying to sound snotty over here either,
>but I thought that woudl be the best thing to call it. I can say I've
>seen places in hemmings which advertise the plating of plastic as
>their specialty. Peharps the process is different from plating metal
>somehow. I'm not a metallurgist or plater so I dunno...
>cf
>

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:41:39 -0300
Subject: 'nother URL 

     Hey all, check out this page.  I don't know how long it's been around,
but it's got a good start.  I saw a lot of bowties, and a severe lack of
BOP's, but I didn't stay there long, and the page looks like it could sure
use some.  I emailed him and told him so, and pointed him to Bryce's and
Rod's pages.  Looks like it could be good. (if you can stomach the bowties...)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:37:38 -0300
Subject: Switch Pitch 

Bryce,
All I can contribute here is that my rebuilt TH400 has the switch pitch, but 
I don't know where it came from. Let me know what you find out on this item,
I'm curious too. Check out Art Carr in So. Cal. that's wherer my tranny came
from and I think the converter with it. The tranny didn't last so I can't 
vouch for the quality, but when rebuilt was put in after it didn't work the
switch pitch feature was retained under the new tranny leading me to believe
that they retained the switch pitch from that source.

What will you gain from a higher stall speed? I don't know that much about
trannys.
cf

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:42:30 -0300
Subject: '72 performance wagons 

Some wagon questions to think about.

What are the deals with the wagons in JWO that have ralley wheels?  What is 
the 
deal with the '72 Vista Cruiser pace car?  Is it the performance options on 
the 
wagon?

I guess that Vista - Cruisers are pretty special and lesser Cutlass Cruiser 
didn't get much attention except for the one with the w/45 w/46 package.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

for Lisa:

Lisa, 

thanks for the copies.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:42:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Questions 

          
Do any aftermarket vendors have switch pitch converters? I have already 
checked with B&M and they dont.

          Try Kenne-Bell.  I bought a complete conversion kit 
          (converter and front pump) from them several years ago.  I 
          was quite happy with the kit.  I actually installed it as a 
          part of a complete TH400 rebuild using a B&M rebuild kit.
          
           Joe Padavano
           jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
           
           66 442
           68 W-30
           69 H/O
           70 W-30
          
          
          

------------------------------

From: Frank Iezzi <fiezzi@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:31:01 -0300
Subject: 66 Toro FS (lost storage)

Hi guys,
Don't get to read the post much, and heard that the Toro guys moved to
another list, but here goes... A have to sell "one of the family"

1966 Toro [deluxe] For Sale - losingt storage as of 1 Dec, 1996
168,000 mi  owner one owned til 110K, owner two to 165k, now me!
excellent interior, some rust, not bad really, med blue ext (some small
dings, lt blue interior (beautiful), runs well
int 
before storing the following was done, new brakes (shoes, wheel cyl,
rubber lines, master cyl), tune up, muffler/tailpipes...

needs CV joint on front right...  driveable
asking $3800 obo - e-mail me with offers

car located in Columbus OH...
Thanks
Frank Iezzi

PS might have an 86 4-4-2 for sale for same reason... still trying to find
storage for that car, though.  However, anyone SUPER-interested, let me know
needs some engine work, 121,000 highway miles, loaded, black/silver,
w/maroon velour interior  dings, chips, no rust or major body damage ever...

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:49:43 -0300 
Subject: Re: Rare Factory Triple Black

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)

> What makes it "triple" as opposed to just black?  Is my black 442
> covered in the rare triple black?

>I had always thought that when "triple black" was mentioned, it referred
>to the interior, exterior, and top.  Hence "triple white" would be a white
car,
>with white interior and white top.  Feel free to disagree.

I guess I have the "rare" triple black option then.  Nice to know I
have something special, especially when its 100 degrees out
and I'm trying not to touch anything hot in my car. :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed  "rare" triple black, with just a hint of gold striping...

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:47:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: No-Vent Dash Pads 

          
Would it be more accurate to say that the vent windows 
depend only on body style?

          Yes.  All of the post cars (2dr Sport Coupe - 77 body style, 
          4dr post sedan, and all wagons).  Note that I am refering to 
          68-72 A-bodies only.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:46:04 -0300
Subject: Plastic Plating 

Craig,
What can you tell us about quality of work and pricing? Have you used them
and are they fair, do they take a long time? etc., etc. Also what town
are you/they in? I'm in Northern Ca. and am sorta kinda looking for a good
plating operations. I used Verne's in L.A. years ago and was very, very
pleased with results, but haven't gotten my little bits and pieces together
yet for another round of this work. I have lots of stuff that needs help,
- -- door handles, cigar lighters, rear speaker housing, etc,  etc. It's
low priority, but would be cool to have right...

Thanks for your comments and, if appropriate, the name, address and number.
cf

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro FS (lost storage)

Frank Iezzi wrote:
> 
> ...heard that the Toro guys moved to another list

Not so much moved but cloned.  We're still here.
See  http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/torolist.html

Bummer you have to get rid of the car.  Can't you 
move some family members out and put it in a bedroom?

> asking $3800 obo 

Ya think???

I'll forward this over there just in case...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:46:50 -0300
Subject: Disk Brakes - Cutlass/442 

>>>If memory serves, I thought the 68-69's had four-piston calipers...
Different than '70, which I believe is single-caliper (?).<<<

Nope, it was '67-'68 used the 4-piston calipers a la Corvettes.  Had a set on
my '67 but when it sat three years before the restification they sprung leaks
everywhere!  A pain all around unless orginal is mandatory.  I converted the
car back to drum brakes believe it or not.  That is about to be changed.

As far as I have been able to learn, for 69-72 the master cylinders,
spindles, rotors, calipers and pads are all interchangeable.  The differences
have to do with where the proportioning valve is located.  For 69-70 it
bolted to the master cylinder.  For 71-72 the proportioning valve was bolted
to the frame out of the way.  Same/similar location to my '67.

At the OCA Nationals in Atlanta I was able to purchase one '70 and one '71-2
conversion setup. Each included master cylinder, booster, lines to and the
proportioning valve, spindles, hoses (be sure you get the little frame
mounting bracket for the flex hose - they are different disk versus drum),
rotors and calipers.  Each set went for $125 which seems average.   I had my
pick of several sets and got the best ones there.  

Of course at least the hoses need to be replaced and it would be wise to
replace the master cylinder, calipers and of course the pads.  The rest is as
needed or desired.  FWIW a fellow in our club works for one of the big chain
parts houses (Rose Auto Stores).  He indicated that remanufactured master
cylinders are cheap as spit for these cars since GM used them in a bunch of
models into the mid 80's.  Like $15 cheap.  No excuse not to replace that.
 The calipers are not as common apparently ending in '72 (can anyone verify
that?) but still like $30 each.

The SX will get the '70 setup.  The '67 will get the 71-72 setup with no
booster.  That's so my right leg doesn't feel neglected after all those years
on non-power drums. :-)

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Josh Ackerman/COR/AXE <Josh_Ackerman@anixter.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:45:16 -0300
Subject: Hurst Olds question

I just got your e-mail address from the Internet. First of all, thanks in 
advance for reading my question. I have recently seen a 1969 Hurst/Olds that I 
would like to try and track down to possibly purchase. My question concerns 
VINs: How do I tell if the car is an original Hurst/Olds and not just a fake? 

I have some information regarding VINs for Oldsmobiles, but my question really 
surrounds around the fact that I don't know if Hurst/Olds were built from 442s 
or from Cutlasses. If they were built from Cutlasses, were they based on the 
six or eight cylinder model? This would obviously affect the VIN. Unless, of 
course, Hurst/Olds all had their own specific VINs.

I realize that this is a lot to ask, but I would really appreciate your help. 

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:59:25 -0300
Subject: Oldsmembers page 

I too am having trouble posting anything to
"http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html".

The first page seeme to load OK but there are no subsequent pages onto which
I can enter any information.

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:07:37 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 performance wagons

Roger,
I think the Cutlass Cruiser in JWO is mine. The one done up like a 72 Hurst 
Olds 
is a clone of the Medical Director cars (6 of them), that was at the track in 
72. I don't know how much a vista cruiser cost new, but our cars cost more 
than 
a Supreme convertibe when new.

Art

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:18:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 'nother URL

buehner wrote:
> 
> Hey all, check out this page.  I don't know how long it's been around,
> but it's got a good start.  I saw a lot of bowties, and a severe lack 
> of BOP's, but I didn't stay there long, and the page looks like it 
> could sure use some.  I emailed him and told him so, and pointed him to 
> Bryce's and Rod's pages.  Looks like it could be good. (if you can 
> stomach the bowties...)

Uhhh...  What page, Charlie?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:41:13 -0300
Subject: Chicago Area Olds Meet

     
     Okay, I plied through the messages confirming attendance.  Here is the 
     list of comfirmees as I know it.  Ed Ekstrom sent a message that he 
     hasn't gotten e-mail from the Olds list for a while.  Hopefully he can 
     attend also.  I am copying him on this directly, as well as Jeff 
     Easton. 
     
     Andy Green and family
     Dave Wilk and family
     Jeff Easton
     Rick Kromeich
     Dave Brown (I think)
     Ed Eksrom (???)
     Brett Chaveriat 
     
     
     To reiterate the plan, we will meet at the Schaumburg Fuddrukkers on 
Sunday 
     Oct. 6 (this Sunday) at 3 PM.  We will meet in the parking lot.  I will 
     include directions below, for those who missed it.
     
     
     
     Fuddrukkers - Schaumburg
     
     From the South:
     Take I-355 North until it merges with I-290 West.  This will then 
     become Illinois 53.  Take this until you get to Golf Road (Rte 58). Go 
West 
     on Golf Rd.  (jump to "From Golf Rd.:") 
     
     From the city:
     Take the Kennedy (I-90) to Illinois 53 South.  Very quickly you 
     will exit at the Golf Road (Rte 58) exit.  It is also Woodfield Rd.  You 
     will need to loop back to Golf by following the signs.  You will need to 
go 
     West on Golf.  When you get to Golf Rd, make a Left. 
     (jump to "From Golf Rd.:")
     
     From Golf Rd.:
     Continue for about a mile past Rte 53.  Turn right at the first 
     light past Plum Grove Rd.  There is a Barnes and Noble bookstore at the 
     intersection.  Then immediately turn left just past the Barnes and 
Noble.  
     Fudds is on your left.  We will meet at the South end of the parking lot 
     (closest to Golf Rd.)


Brett Chaveriat                                    Arlington Hts, IL 
brett@actel.com
72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.


     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:47:30 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 performance wagons 

>I don't know how much a vista cruiser cost new, but our cars cost more than 
>a Supreme convertibe when new.

Are wagons were a measely $3497.65 while V-C's were $3773.65 or $3907.65 2/3 
seat.  Yeah, $65.60 more and we can drive year round. :-)

Roger

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:17:58 -0300
Subject: Motor Sports Hall of Fame - Aurora

Check out hhtp://www.mshf.com/museum/aurora.htm

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:20:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Cross Member...

So I take it an 81-88 Cutlass, monte, or regal are G-bodies if you are replying
to my original message, right?
anthony

------------------------------

From: markd@cc.gatech.edu (Mark Devaney)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:32:25 -0300
Subject: Hello (again)

Hi - I've been off the list for a long while now, trying to work on
my PhD more and my car less.  But the bug has bitten again and I'm
hoping to get the resto of my '70 442 finished this winter.  I'll be
dragging the interior out of my closet and reuniting it with the car
(after 2 years) in a couple of weeks...  

One question that I do have: I found the build sheet while removing
the carpet, and my convertible top color is "GOLD".  The good news is
that I love this color and can't wait to replace the cheesy black top
someone put on the car years ago with one that's the right color.
The bad news is that it's very difficult to get a GOLD top.  I did
find one at Bro's Automotive for $300 (yikes)!  Anyone know of
any other good sources for a correct top?  I tried the omnipresent
Bill Hirsh in NJ and he laughed  and said something along the lines
that "gold is weird".  

Any one else have a gold top on their car or seen one - How do they look?

Thanks and sorry if I've butted into any ongoing threads.

Mark


- -- 
|----_____-----_____-----_____-----_____-----_____-----_____-----_____-----|
 Mark Devaney                    "Mister Order, he runs at a very good pace 
 Georgia Institute of Technology  But old Mother Chaos is winning the race"
 markd@cc.gatech.edu                   _The Illuminatus! Trilogy_           
 http://www.cc.gatech.edu/ai/students/markd/
                   PGP public key available via finger                     
     

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:46:13 -0300
Subject: legal question 

Hi all,

Are photos published JWO copyrighted?  ie, can I scan them and put them on a 
web server?

Thanks.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:54:57 -0300
Subject: For sale Olds dual snorkel air cleaner 

For sale:  Mid 60's Olds dual snorkel air cleaner out of a Toronado.
It is in very good shape, but needs to be painted as someone
painted it light blue.  The price is $100.00  It is located in central Mass, 
but I can ship it if necessary.  

Please respond directly to me at Bonazzoli@5onflr.enet.dec.com to avoid
extra list traffic.

Thanks,
Rich 

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:02:11 -0300
Subject: Gold Convertible top

Try Hydro Electric for your top. They are on the east coast (Mass. I
think) and they advertise in Hemmings. I have delt with them in the
past and they are VERY nice folks. Also any auto trimmer should be
able to get you a top from their upholstry supplier. Electron is one
of the larger makers that the upholstery supply houses get tops from.
If you do not have any luck locally, E-mail me direct and I will see 
what I can do. I was in the auto trim business for 14 years and I still 
do a little work now and then. I can get Electron tops and another 
brand. (not sure about gold though)

Dave Wyatt  70  4-4-2
Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:00:33 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

Roger M. Borlase wrote:
> 
> Are photos published JWO copyrighted?  

1) I'd be very suprised if they weren't.  These probably a 
notice somewhere, maybe in the table of contents.

> ie, can I scan them and put them on a web server?

2) If 1, above - Nope.  Not without permission.

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:02:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 'nother URL 

At 02:41 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     Hey all, check out this page.  I don't know how long it's been around,
>but it's got a good start.  I saw a lot of bowties, and a severe lack of
>BOP's, but I didn't stay there long, and the page looks like it could sure
>use some.  I emailed him and told him so, and pointed him to Bryce's and
>Rod's pages.  Looks like it could be good. (if you can stomach the bowties...)
>    
Did I miss something? Check out what page?

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:58:45 -0300
Subject: Re: CrossMember

> 
> Hi again,
> 
> Anyone know if an older Cutlass crossmember was produced w/ double notches 
for 
> exhaust which will swap into a 84 Cutlass??  and if this were to exist, what
> a decent junkyard price would be in CA?
> 
> anthony
> 


I saved this bit from a post a few weeks ago.  Not sure who it was from (Tom
Millard maybe???) but here it is:


  > One more thing to think about is the cross member.  For some unknown 
reason,
  > G-bodies used an offset cross member that only has a single hump.  A dual
  > hump one from a late 60's or early 70's GM (Cutlass, etc.) will work great 
if
  > you remove 1" from both sides.  It will have to set on the bottom of the
  > frame rails instead of the top but it will work just right for the where 
the
  > headers dump.  I used one from an '73 442 and it works great.  I have 3" 
all
  > the way back with no clearance problems at all.  If you want to retain the
  > original cross memeber, 2 1/2" pipes will fit under it on the driver side,
  > but they will be close.
 


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:12:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro FS (lost storage)  OOOPS!!! 

At 02:31 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:


>1966 Toro [deluxe] For Sale - losingt storage as of 1 Dec, 1996
>168,000 mi  owner one owned til 110K, owner two to 165k, now me!
>excellent interior, some rust, not bad really, med blue ext (some small
>dings, lt blue interior (beautiful), runs well

Just re-read the post after my second sip of weekend beer and it made
sense...Sorry for the attempt at humor on the last post!! :-(

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:09:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro FS (lost storage) 

At 02:31 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:

>1966 Toro [deluxe] For Sale - losingt storage as of 1 Dec, 1996
>168,000 mi  owner one owned til 110K, owner two to 165k, now me!

New math:

  110,000
 +165,000
- -----------
  168,000

And they say you can't get a good edumacation anymore... :-) 



 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:16:07 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

>Are photos published JWO copyrighted?  ie, can I scan them and put 
>them on a web server?

I'd imagine they are copyrighted (isn't everything in the publication?)
and officially it would be naughty to put them on a web server.

_Unofficially_ (IANAL), I can see some angles for weaseling out of
trouble for doing it anyway:

1) If the stuff was really old (i.e. Not on commercial sale, out of
print or whatever); this would seem to preclude the current issue
of JWO since you'd be giving away what they are trying to sell

2) You weren't doing it for profit, or ideally for any charge at all

3) You were *ahem* completely naive about the finer points of
copyright, didn't mean any harm, blah, blah, blah

So IOW you could put it up and wait to get an annoyed letter from a
lawyer somewhere; I think this was the approach taken by someone else
here not too long ago.  :-)  But realistically you probably shouldn't
do it in the first place.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:22:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello (again) 

At 05:32 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:

>The bad news is that it's very difficult to get a GOLD top.  I did
>find one at Bro's Automotive for $300 (yikes)!  Anyone know of
>any other good sources for a correct top?  

Year One lists available colors as: tan, beige, and buckskin. You should
check w/them and see if one of those is supposed to be gold. Their price is
259.00 with window.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:44:36 -0300
Subject: Last Call! Chicago Members' Meeting This Sunday! 

Okay, no more annoying broadcasts after this one, at least by me:

We're getting together at 3:00 p.m. on Sunday, October 6th, at
Fuddrucker's in Schaumburg, IL. We have about half a dozen confirmed
attendees, plus family members, so far. Nothing in particular planned;
this will be a first-time meeting for several of us.

Fuddrucker's is on the north side of Golf Road about 2 miles west
of 53, one traffic light west of the big Golf/Plum Grove intersection; 
phone (847) 519-9390. The closer you come to arriving around 3:00, the
better the lighting will be for photos. I'm hoping to be there before 
3:00 but final arrival will depend on Bears game status.

See you there!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:59:09 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
>  _Unofficially_ (IANAL), I can see some angles for weaseling out of
> trouble for doing it anyway:

It entirely up to you what you do BUT these are the facts:
 
> 1) If the stuff was really old (i.e. Not on commercial sale, out of
> print or whatever); 

Doesn't matter.  Neither age or unavailibility negates copyright law.

> 2) You weren't doing it for profit, or ideally for any charge at all

Also doesn't matter.  *Avoiding* a purchase is the test.
 
> 3) You were *ahem* completely naive about the finer points of
> copyright, didn't mean any harm, blah, blah, blah

Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

But then, what do I know...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:07:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Kenne Bell

Kenne Bell
10743 Bell Court
Rancho Cucamonga, CA  91730

Orders (909)941-6646
Tech   (909)941-0985
Fax    (909)944-4883

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Chris Fair wrote:

> 
> These guys are located east of LA in So. Cal. Check the following area codes:
> (818) (619) (310) and (213) to find them. They're in one of the samll towns
> east of LA, west of Palm Springs on the either the 10 or 60 FWY's. Hope this
> helps...
> cf
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:13:55 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

I just wanted to put the pictures of the wagons on page 5 and 17 on my server.

too bad the wagon on page 16 is hard to see.  I'll give you a hint.  It is at 
the top center page parked backwards in front of the tree.  It looks like it 
has the paint scheme mine does (white uppwer, bronze lower).

I see no printed copyright in the magazine.  Unless the owner's of the 
vehicles are on this list, and there are objections from them, I will put them 
up.  Look for them after 10/17 at http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/images

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:11:42 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

>Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

Exactly. The point I was trying to make in a poorly-worded way was
that you could well ruffle feathers by doing this, and should be
prepared to back down at the first sign of a challenge 'cause they
will be right and you will be wrong. I don't think you'll land in
jail over it (civil matter, yes?) nor be sued for eight-bazillion
dollars as a first offense, but stranger things are happening in
this day and age.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:33:19 -0300
Subject: Wide tires?

I have the Olds SS II rims (14x7) on my '70 442.
I would like to know how wide of a tire will fit on the rims and still 
clear the front fender wells.
Thanks 
Brad

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@msn.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:33:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro FS (lost storage) 

1st owner  -  0-110,000
2nd owner  -  110,000-165,000
3rd owner  -  165,000-168,000

Jason Hairston
77 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:42:32 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

Roger M. Borlase wrote:
> 
> 
> I see no printed copyright in the magazine.  

And that's the other side of the coin, Roger.  If they don't display the 
copyright notice, they'll play hell trying to prove an infringment.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:39:24 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I don't think you'll land in jail over it (civil matter, yes?) nor be 
> sued for eight-bazillion dollars as a first offense, 

Copyright law provides for both civil and criminal  :o  penalties.  I 
don't remember what the fine is lately but it's a least a grand PER 
INSTANCE.

> but stranger things are happening in this day and age.

Or you could put it on a server in LA...   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Victoria L. Albritton 813-773-3181" <ALBRITV@mail.firn.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:52:17 -0300
Subject: New member here

Hi everybody.  Just joined the group.  I purchased a 1972 CS in June of 
this year and am having a blast with it.  It is a great driver and a very 
comfortable rider.  Can't leave it in the garage very long til I'm behind 
the wheel again.  Vinyl top was removed before I purchased it.  Can't 
decide whether to replace it or leave as is.  I looks great - flame red 
with white leather interior.  Let me hear from you.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:33:02 -0300
Subject: Re: New member here

Victoria L. Albritton 813-773-3181 wrote:
> 
> I looks great - flame red with white leather interior.  

Ahhhh...  Flame!  Red!  Cool!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:07:46 -0300
Subject: Re: New member here

On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Victoria L. Albritton 813-773-3181 wrote:
> > 
> > I looks great - flame red with white leather interior.  
>   ^ 
> Ahhhh...  Flame!  Red!  Cool!

Bet the car looks pretty good too... 
;-)

Welcome, Victoria!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: holgate@juno.com (David T. Holgate) 
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:18:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Disk Brakes - Cutlass/442

>
>The SX will get the '70 setup.  The '67 will get the 71-72 setup with 
>no
>booster.  That's so my right leg doesn't feel neglected after all 
>those years
>on non-power drums. :-)
>
>Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible
>
>Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
>U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
>Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the info! My father-in-law has a 66' 442 and we compared the
spindles on his car versus a 69' Cutlass disc spindle and the 69' is
about a half-inch longer than the 66'. Do you feel that this swap is
still valid into your 67' like you want to do? I'm concerned over the
possible caster and camber problems.

Dave Holgate
(holgate@juno.com)

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:13:32 -0300
Subject: Re: CrossMember

>   > G-bodies used an offset cross member that only has a single hump.  A dual
>   > hump one from a late 60's or early 70's GM (Cutlass, etc.) will work 
great if
>   > you remove 1" from both sides.  It will have to set on the bottom of the
>   > frame rails instead of the top but it will work just right for the where 
the
>   > headers dump. 

Why does it need to be attached to the bottom of the frame rails?  This would
make me a bit wary of the replacement.  If TOm could address this when he gives
me a reply to the original question, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
anthony

> 

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:37:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide tires?

Brad,
I have three cars with 245 - 60's and they fit fine. I was told that was the 
biggest they would put on 14 x 7 wheels.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:34:43 -0300
Subject: Re: CrossMember 

In a message dated 96-10-03 19:20:41 EDT, you write:

> Didn't the diesel cars come with duals?  Wouldn't the 
>            crossmember fit? 

Yeah, our '81 Cutlass diesel had duals, but I don't think it was a full dual
system.  I think it was a split dual system like is so popular today.  Main
reason of diesel duals was to cut down on all that dirty exhaust from one
pipe.  Don't know why the big cars didn't have duals tho.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:34:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question, plus rear disc brakes 

In a message dated 96-10-03 19:50:50 EDT, you write:

> 70's Caddy's (perhaps the Fleetwood?) were loosely based on 
>       the G-body frame and could be caniballized for disc rear brakes. 

Think that's the Seville.

Paul

PS - Started working for an Olds dealer in '87, traded lots of those XSs back
then, should have bought some of them I guess.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:39:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds question

Josh,
All 69 H/O's were 442's. The VIN in the window should match the 455 engine, 
and 
transmission. Beware of fakes, there are some around.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:05:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Rechroming Plastic 

Ask them how they do it and report back.

At 10:40 AM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Everyone,
>  There is a place 2 minutes from where I live that does this plastic/pot 
>metal plating.  Anyone who wants info about getting their stuff done, just 
>mail me.  I'd be glad to look up the phone # in the book for you.
>
>             
>                                                   Craig Dobbins



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:46:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide tires? 

At 10:37 PM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I have three cars with 245 - 60's and they fit fine. I was told that was the 
>biggest they would put on 14 x 7 wheels.

Art,

Which tire company makes a street tire that is wider than a 245-60-14?  I
have a set of this size in BFGoodrich Radial T/A's but to go any wider (ie
255 or 275-60-15) you need 15" wheels.



Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:57:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Disk Brakes - Cutlass/442 

In a message dated 96-10-04 15:00:08 EDT, you write:

> The differences
>  have to do with where the proportioning valve is located.  For 69-70 it
>  bolted to the master cylinder.  For 71-72 the proportioning valve was
bolted
>  to the frame out of the way.

I removed a complete disc brake setup from a '72 parts car about 4 years ago
for future installation on my '72.  (Discs were a bonus, as I bought this car
specifically for the A/C).  Anyway, I'm not too much worried about the master
cylinder or calipers, as they will be replaced/rebuilt rather then being used
as is.  What concerns me in the proportioning valve.  I left this open to the
atmosphere (didn't know any better at the time) and I'm afraid it's junk by
now.  There seems to be no way of opening these up to clean them out.  Year
One advertises new ones as fitting '71 Cutlass w/OAI (outside air induction)
or manual disc, '71 442 w/OAI and '72 Cutlass w/OAI.  Can I use one of these
on my non OAI Supreme?  And what is the significance between OAI and the
valve - doesn't make sense to me.  Anybody know a source for non-OAI valves?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:57:37 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

In a message dated 96-10-04 18:19:22 EDT, you write:

> too bad the wagon on page 16 is hard to see.  I'll give you a hint.  It is
at 
>  the top center page parked backwards in front of the tree.  It looks like
it  
>  has the paint scheme mine does (white uppwer, bronze lower).

You've got good eyes, or a very powerful magnifying glass.  This guy was
parked right behind me, that's me above the black roof of the '67 98 I was
parked next to.  My '67 on the other side of his is barely visible except for
the open trunk lid.  Anyway, his wagon is Garnet Red w/White top and a Green
interior.  Has all kinds of late model GM modifications like Cadillac
intermittent wipers, power antenna, etc.
 
>  I see no printed copyright in the magazine.

I looked and looked and I don't see any either.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:17:50 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

>You've got good eyes, or a very powerful magnifying glass.  This guy was
>parked right behind me, that's me above the black roof of the '67 98 I was
>parked next to.  My '67 on the other side of his is barely visible except for
>the open trunk lid.  Anyway, his wagon is Garnet Red w/White top and a Green
>interior.  Has all kinds of late model GM modifications like Cadillac
>intermittent wipers, power antenna, etc.

I've got okay eyes, but God's love too.  Is his a '72?  Looks early 70's or 
late '60's by the rear tailight assembly.  I don't have the magazine with me 
now to look are your vehicles. :-(

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html

------------------------------

From: Stanfell Boone <boonedoc@netaxs.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:43:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide tires?

Brad Bowles wrote:
> 
> I have the Olds SS II rims (14x7) on my '70 442.
> I would like to know how wide of a tire will fit on the rims and still
> clear the front fender wells.
> Thanks
> Brad

Can't answer your question directly. I was advised to stick to 
215/70X14s on the front, by a tire salesman who was concerned about the
turning angle restriction imposed by a wider tire. I was too timid to go
any wider. Another factor to be considered is how much tire your 7inch
rim can handle.
Co-incidentally, the rolling circumference of a 245/60X14 is almost
identical to the 215/70s, so I shoved them on the back. The combination
works very well for me. They all seem to be pigs in the corners anyways.
Love them just the same.

boonedoc
71 442 convertible

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:41:00 -0300
Subject: 73 Delta 88 on film 

Hi. I anyone want's to see Beige 73 Delta 88 4drhdtp in  different movies
should check out any movie made by Director Sam Raimi. His first commercial
film was the horror classic "The Evil Dead", low budget, and predictable, but
still cool. In it college kids take a vacation in the woods and get there in
a 73 88, Sam's car, which was used due to budget limitations. Afterwords it
made cameo apperances in other films of his. list is as follows-
Evil Dead- Shots of car driving, great frontal view.
Evil Dead 2:Dead by Dawn: Car is chased by demon, gets run into tree, then
falls from sky and is totaled.
Army Of Darkness, aka Evil Dead 3,-Car appears again, engine is removed on
screen(Actual Olds V8)      and car is then turned into steam powered Death
Coaster(really cool)
CrimeWave-final 5-10 Min car chase is 88 followed by bad guys, lot's of good
shots of the car, get's totaled at end.
DarkMan-when darkman is dangling from helicopter he is nearly run over by 88.

Also, an 88 appears in the opening of "Newhart" 
The Next Karate Kid- 70 442/Cutlass blown up in last scene.
Anyone else know of Oldsmobiles on the silver screen?

DrkSole
 73 Cutlass supreme
 67 Delta 88 (coming soon)
  Deadite.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:11:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Plating 

Chris -

Can you pass on the info on Verne's in L.A.  I'm in So Cal & hadnt got
around to looking into this - need my pass armrest in the Delta done (is all
for now), its the only sore spot in the whole interior & bugs me.

Thanks - >
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:18:39 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question 

As we publish a newsletter (the other half does) we run into this all the
time & wont accept material without written authorization from the original
publisher or author.  So, simply, you can contact JWO and request their
persmission to use the material.  Then, when you use it, you put "Used with
the permission of......."

If I'm not mistaken.....
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:25:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide tires?

>Brad Bowles wrote:
>> 
>> I have the Olds SS II rims (14x7) on my '70 442.
>> I would like to know how wide of a tire will fit on the rims and still
>> clear the front fender wells.
>> Thanks
>> Brad
>
>Can't answer your question directly. I was advised to stick to 
>215/70X14s on the front, by a tire salesman who was concerned about the
>turning angle restriction imposed by a wider tire. I was too timid to go
>any wider. Another factor to be considered is how much tire your 7inch
>rim can handle.
>Co-incidentally, the rolling circumference of a 245/60X14 is almost
>identical to the 215/70s, so I shoved them on the back. The combination
>works very well for me. They all seem to be pigs in the corners anyways.
>Love them just the same.
>
>boonedoc
>71 442 convertible
>
I put 225/70X15 on SS1 wheels on my '69 4-4-2 (w/front disc) and clears with
room to spare, not to mention, handles nice too.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:54:13 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> Then, when you use it, you put "Used with the permission of......."
> If I'm not mistaken.....

You're not, Lisa.  You're exactly right. 

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:57:01 -0300
Subject: movie 

there is a '70 442 in 'Demolition Man'.  it also got wrecked.
there was an '88 in the Wonder Years tv series.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:36:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Rare Factory Triple Black 

Triple Black refers to exterior paint, vinyl top and interior.  The rare
factor is the more common use of complementary but non-matching colors for
one or more of these categories.

My 69 442 was triple green (ugh).  My 68 442 was triple black but original
owner decided it was too black and painted it metallic brown.  Nice, but the
original was better IMHO.

David Wilk

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 05:09:01 -0300
Subject: Re: legal question

Roger Borlase writes:
>Are photos published JWO copyrighted?  ie, can I scan them and put them on a 
>web server?

If you ask Penny Casteele real nice, maybe she will supply the name of 
the graphic arts guy using the Macintosh to supply the ACTUAL files... A 
nice home would be on www.442.com, if you all know what I mean... The 
formats are probably the normal stuff, platform independent, TIFFS, 
Postscript, GIF, JPEG's, Picts, etc...


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Work E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 06:26:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 'nother URL 

>buehner wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all, check out this page.  I don't know how long it's been around,
>> but it's got a good start.  I saw a lot of bowties, and a severe lack 
>> of BOP's, but I didn't stay there long, and the page looks like it 
>> could sure use some.  I emailed him and told him so, and pointed him to 
>> Bryce's and Rod's pages.  Looks like it could be good. (if you can 
>> stomach the bowties...)
>
>Uhhh...  What page, Charlie?
    
     Umm, whoops!  Well, maybe you could just read my mind and try to guess
where I'm at??!!  (I was obviously somewhere else!!!)  Here, try this one:
         http://www.wavefront.com/%7Ejcecil/
Maybe that'll get somewhere...  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 06:31:32 -0300
Subject: Re: movie 

>there is a '70 442 in 'Demolition Man'.  it also got wrecked.
>there was an '88 in the Wonder Years tv series.

Actually, from what I've heard, the only damage to that car (it was a real
442, by the way) was the headlights and windshield.  The rest was special
effects and/or stunt double *(hopefully a chevelle painted to look like
it?)*  Anyway, that's the word I've heard, that they didn't really wreck the
car. 
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:07:41 -0300
Subject: Another Oldsmobile Sighting 

I was watching a Valvoline commercial on the TV a few minutes ago, what to my
surprise I saw what appeared to be a 68 or 69 Cutlass convertible. It was
Yellow with five spoke aluminum rims. Looked good, but not the stock version
we're used to. The wheels really looked silly on the car


Katana72           It's NOT your daddy's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!         Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:06:50 -0300
Subject: Re: movie 

Just NO RESPECT for the great cars!!!!!!!!



Katana72          It's NOT you Daddy's Oldsmobile!!!       Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:43:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds question 

In a message dated 96-10-04 15:00:08 EDT, you write:

<< I just got your e-mail address from the Internet. First of all, thanks in 
 advance for reading my question. I have recently seen a 1969 Hurst/Olds that
I 
 would like to try and track down to possibly purchase. My question concerns 
 VINs: How do I tell if the car is an original Hurst/Olds and not just a
fake? 
 
 I have some information regarding VINs for Oldsmobiles, but my question
really 
 surrounds around the fact that I don't know if Hurst/Olds were built from
442s 
 or from Cutlasses. If they were built from Cutlasses, were they based on the

 six or eight cylinder model? This would obviously affect the VIN. Unless, of

 course, Hurst/Olds all had their own specific VINs.
  >>

There is no designation in the VIN that the car is a Hurst/Olds. But, it
would be so costly to fake one and do it right, that it would hardly be worth
the effort. Not that it would be impossible, but hard to do if you know what
to look for. Here are some things to look for:

Cameo white paint with black bucket seat interior
442 model code in VIN
Power brakes with front discs
Red 455 motor... some had intake-mounted pcv
Metal ram air assembly, not plastic as used on W-cars
Automatic trans with OH code on tag
Posi rear
Hurst/Olds decal on glove box door
Dual gate shifter with shorty console
15" SS wheels with chrome rims and gray painted centers
Chrome mirrors
Matching VIN on block

The hood scoop and wing are the easiest parts to fake, but they are the most
obvious part of the H/O package, along with the gold stripes. The ram air
assembly, shorty console, and mirrors are almost impossible to find at any
price.

Email me if you need more info.

Jon Wessel
Director, Hurst/Olds Club of America

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:17:58 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Oldsmobile Sighting 

>I was watching a Valvoline commercial on the TV a few minutes ago, what to my
>surprise I saw what appeared to be a 68 or 69 Cutlass convertible. It was
>Yellow with five spoke aluminum rims. Looked good, but not the stock version
>we're used to. The wheels really looked silly on the car

Are you sure it's not the convertible Buick from the Halvoline commercial?  
Darn it getting cold here!  12 degrees last night.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:41:00 -0300
Subject: Cars & Parts

I am subscribed to "Cars & Parts" magazine and I just received the latest 
issue.  In the back they always have a classified section for cars and parts 
for sale.  Here is a listing of some of the items listed (and I typed it 
exactly as it appears, and take no responsibility for truth or accuracy of 
their claims):

Olds 1903 rolled dash replica.  Run car Parades, etc, $2,200  908-232-5070 
(NJ)

Old 1949 88 fastback, low miles choice body $5,950 - 1950 4-door, auto, 
beautiful and fast $6,950.  1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible, from 
California since new, blue, power and air, gorgeous $7,500.  319-465-3064; 
FAX 319-465-6048 (IA)

Olds 1955 2-door, original car with fresh engine and transmission $5,750. 
 815-963-1267 or 815-654-0633 (IL)

Olds 1956 Super 88 4-door.  New brakes, steering, interior, paint 
(red/white).  Good engine, chrome. Straight.  $5000 U.S. 604-943-7148, 
Delta, BC Canada

Olds 1963 Starfire convertible.  Needs total restoration.  Is together and 
complete.  Asking $2,600 OBO.  Must Sell.  Joe Dvorak, Spring Grove IL 
60081, 815-675-6090 days; 815-385-2947 evenings.

Olds 1963 Starfire convertible; original car.  Located Central West 
Virginia.  Details: James Bandy, Box 71, Oakdale PA 15071.  Phone 
412-693-2693; FAX 412-693-2925 (PA)

Olds 1963 88 hardtop convertible.  Sound body, original interior, excellent 
mechanicals, 56,000 actual miles.  $3,750, negotiable.  Call Ed, 
606-298-5047 anytime (KY)

Olds 1967 Delmont convertible, 425, PW, PS, PB, Runs good, plus complete set 
of spare parts included, top fair, AM, good tires, spare jack.  No carpet, 
seats.  Excellent dash.  Excellent condition.  $2,600 for all.  Moses 
French, 602-276-8463, Phoenix, AZ

Olds 1968 Toronado Custom.  Peruvian silver, Black vinyl top, interior. 
 Restored to new condition 1987.  Maintained for show only since. 
 Immaculate winner of numerous major awards.  $12,500.  SASE for photos. 
 Orene Crawford, 8602 Snowshoe Trail, Cicero, NY 13039.  Phone 315-699-1665

Olds 1969 Cutlass.  Totally restored.  New tires.  Runs good.  Excellent 
condition $3,740 negotiable.  614-986-3234, Williamsport, OH

Olds 1983 Toronado Brougham factory convertible by Hess and Eisenhart. 
 48,000 original miles. 5.0 litre V8, FWD, full power, fully loaded.  Black 
with burgundy leather.  New top and headliner.  Detailed throughout.  Many 
time show winner.  perfect condition, asking $14,500 OBO.  Only 95 ever 
made.  Rare collectible.  Frank DiBrino, 160 Dante Avenue, Tuckahoe, NY 
10707.  914-779-7564

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #321
********************************
 
