To:	Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US
cc:	 
From:	gbbea000 @ mail.cycor.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/24/96 06:08:41 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #338


oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 21 October 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 338


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pete <redeye@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:02:34 -0300
Subject: chrome pieces 70 oldsy

The body guy I took my baby to sure screwed up..had the body redone, ie
1/4 panels etc..well the jerk broke off the chrome off the front fenders
instead of undoing the nuts from inside the fenders..man am I pissed!
Needless to say I need the "CUTLASS" AND the "S" chrome pieces. Any one
have any of these parts or knows where I can purchase them??? The car is
an OLDS 1970 2dr coupe cutlass "S". Has the "CUTLASS" written type
letters on bothe fenders and also an "S" just below those.. Any help
would be appreciated...HHHELLLPPP!

Thanks, Pete




               ~\\ ! //~
                +(o o)+
 *--pete--.o00o.--( )--.o00o.--pete--*

 ******     Pete Berisoff      *******
 *      Penticton, B.C. Canada,      *
 (<:)       1(604)492-6349       (>:o)
 *******    pete@awinc.com     *******
 *******     pete@img.net      *******

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:00:02 -0300
Subject: Re: chrome pieces 70 oldsy

At 08:02 PM 10/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>The body guy I took my baby to sure screwed up..had the body redone, ie
1/4 >panels etc..well the jerk broke off the chrome off the front
fenders >instead of undoing the nuts from inside the fenders..man am I
pissed! >Needless to say I need the "CUTLASS" AND the "S" chrome pieces.
Any one >have any of these parts or knows where I can purchase them???
The car is an >OLDS 1970 2dr coupe cutlass "S". Has the "CUTLASS"
written type letters on >bothe fenders and also an "S" just below
those.. Any help would be >appreciated...HHHELLLPPP! > >Thanks, Pete

Pete,

relax...year one @1-800-950-9503 lists the cutlass script p/n 505n for
$15.50 each. the "s" piece is p/n bm128 @ $25.00 each. I would recommend
that your body shop pay for these since they broke them off. It is
clearly their fault,
************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:22:04 -0300
Subject: Salesmen's prices,equip,colors,trims specs(revision)

In a message dated 96-10-20 17:47:45 EDT, you write:

> Hi,
>     Yea, I'd be into it.  I have a '68 442 convertable, and want a
>  color chart anyway, so this would be perfect.  One thing though,
>  does it also contain the color codes??

Yes it contains the color codes for exterior and interior.  I talked to
Cornea
today and he check on his books, he has them from 61 to 84

Also I forgot to mention, please email me directly at W Machines@aol.com
sorry Greg, I did not mean to be so rude about the responses.

------------------------------

From: "Jason K. Adcock" <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:34:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers for Olds SB

At 06:04 PM 10/19/96 -0300, you wrote:

> Keep in mind the '78 up chassis is way different, and those headers
will >~not~ fit in the newer A/G chassis.  I've got two different sets
of the >older styles, (one Hooker, and one Blackjack, both really nice)
but neither >will fit the Rockit.  (SB or BB) I know there were
companies everywhere that >made headers for the '80's A/G bodys, tho',
and you could get them fairly >affordably.  (Until you stick a bigblock
in there, then bend over...:) > I was looking recently for headers
for my 1984 307 SB and the only one's I could find were from Headman.
They were supposed to fit 260-400 SB V8's. Sorry, I don't have the P/N's
with me.  :-( ____________________________ Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

1984 Olds Cutlass
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:37:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Carberator adjustment (HELP!!)

In a message dated 96-10-20 18:05:22 EDT, you write:

> Hi,
>    I just got my numbers matching Q-jet on my '68 442 convert.  But
>  it's not running right.  Can anyone tell me the correct way of how
>  to adjust my carb to the correct fast/slow idle, and fuel/air
>  mixtue, etc...???  I've tried to tune it be ear, but I know it's
>  not exactly right yet.  I drove it a while before when it was
>  running really rich (blowing black smoke from take-offs) and it
>  coated the insides of my tailpipes with black dust, so it can't be
>  running correctly.  It's a little bit better now, since I've been
>  toying with it, but I know I'll have to change the plugs now 'cause
>  they're probably all goobed up from running so rich.  If anyone out
>  there can tell me what to do, or what gague I need to adjust this
>  thing (and what to do after that), I'd sure appreciate it.
>
>                                                   Thank You,
>                                                     Craig Dobbins

I can help you Craig. You need a vacuum gauge.  Hook the vacuum gauge
to port vacuum.  Or what I mean to one of the vacuum lines coming out of
the intake.  Turn both adjustments on the carb all the way in and then
back them each out 2 1/2 turns.   Now start the car and read the vacuum
in inches. The needle may bounce around, but start with one adjustment
and turn it counter clock wise until you get the highest reading of
vacuum, then do it with the other adjustment.  When you reach the
highest reading of vacuum by alternating both adjustments, then the idle
mixture screws will be set. You may have to turn the idle adjustment
down but keep it at the RPM you like

W MACHINES
rochester rebuilder

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:52:30 -0300
Subject: Olds Fuel Injection....

I was wondering if anybody had done any research on Dick Millers direct
port fuel injection.  If I'm not mistaken, I think Chris Fair had
purchased one.
 I have been 'toying' with the idea of fuel injectioning my 403.  I like
the idea of direct port injection, due to the fact that each cylinder
gets an exact amount of fuel, but what about an exact amount of air?  So
this leads me to think about Holley's throttle body injection, the
digital version.  Has anybody fuel injected an Olds????

Thanks in advance....
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:53:20 -0300
Subject: Olds Super Charging....

At the Olds Performance Sunday show two weeks ago, a guy told me about a
supercharger he installed on his 350 Olds.  He said it mounted on the
passenger side of the engine and was cooled by oil from the engine.  The
oil then runs back down to a hole in the oil pan.  The output of the
supercharger was then fed to the top of the carb.  He didn't have the
name of the super charger, but he said it made an incredible difference
in power.

So this leads me to ask few questions:  (maybe this guy was a BS'er)
- -He didn't know the name, but he said it wasn't Paxton of Vortech, so
does anybody  know of any other makes like the one I mentioned??? - -I
am not positive, but I thought you could only run a supercharger on a
fuel injection  engine. - -Has anybody put a supercharger or a turbo on
an Olds???

Thanks in advance...
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:27:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc

In a message dated 96-10-17 15:27:33 EDT, you write:

<<         Now consider the big three cant keep up with truck
 production. I believe the Chevy Suburban gets less than 10MPG and
 the Fords and Dodges are no better. So what gives here. Are these
 vehicles exempt from CAFE standards. If GM terminates RWD car
 production in Arlington to convert to truck production because so
 many customers want those bruisers (I like them too,just cant
 justify paying $44,000 for a truck). Seems to me the requlations
 have lots of loopholes so the MFRS can get around them. They make
 the cars unappealing and the trucks appealing because they can
 built them with less govt interference. People are buying trucks
 because a) they have power B) room C) rear wheel drive. So did
 the vehicles we remember fondly.
  >>
I believe the CAFE standards work so that you have to meet the overall
standard for all models (ie: they figure in the gas mileage of the cars,
trucks, etc., and average them out).  And since they are making so many
gas guzzling SUV's, and trucks, they have to make cars that are more
efficient (read as less horsepower, weenie mobiles) like we see now.
Unfortunate, and we pay the price.

Chris.

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:46:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection....

I hae always wondered if there would be a cost effective way to retrofit
Chevy TPI on an Olds block. A custom intake would have to be made and
this would probably be real expensive I imagine. I have 3 TPI's setting
around now that I would just love to retrofit on a 350, 403 or 455.
Actually wouldn't Chevy TBI be easier to retorfit to an Olds block?
Maybe a 4bbl intake could be used with adapter plates to accept the TBI.
I don't know and it may sound stupid but it is a thought.

At 09:52 PM 10/20/96 -0300, OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:
>I was wondering if anybody had done any research on Dick Millers direct
port >fuel injection.  If I'm not mistaken, I think Chris Fair had
purchased one. > I have been 'toying' with the idea of fuel injectioning
my 403.  I like the >idea of direct port injection, due to the fact that
each cylinder gets an >exact amount of fuel, but what about an exact
amount of air?  So this leads >me to think about Holley's throttle body
injection, the digital version.  Has >anybody fuel injected an Olds???? -
- - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://
www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:54:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Super Charging....

At 09:53 PM 10/20/96 -0300, OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:
>At the Olds Performance Sunday show two weeks ago, a guy told me about
a >supercharger he installed on his 350 Olds.  He said it mounted on the
>passenger side of the engine and was cooled by oil from the engine.
The oil >then runs back down to a hole in the oil pan.  The output of
the supercharger >was then fed to the top of the carb.  He didn't have
the name of the super >charger, but he said it made an incredible
difference in power.

I would love to know more about this as I have an A-trim Paxton
supercharger on a totaled to hell 94 Trans Am setting in the salvage
yard calling my name. Could this be made to fit my 80 Olds 350 engine?
I don't know much about superchargers and if they are universal or not. >
>So this leads me to ask few questions:  (maybe this guy was a BS'er)
>-He didn't know the name, but he said it wasn't Paxton of Vortech, so
does >anybody  know of any other makes like the one I mentioned??? >-I
am not positive, but I thought you could only run a supercharger on a
fuel >injection  engine.

I know that Vortech makes a model for carbed 82-86 GM 305 and 350's.
They claim that the power gain is not as good as it would be on a fuel
injected engine. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate
student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the
December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it
at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: jev114@email.psu.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:36:09 -0300
Subject: Re:Quad's 4's etc..

Someone else(Verkleeren) mentioned a 1000hp Quad4.  I am very interested
in >these numbers.  What magazine were these articles in?  I'm also
curious what the >cheapest car I could buy with a Quad 4 would be.

Hey Gibson i'll get you the mag it was in when i go back home this
weekend i'm off at college now...You can get the a Quad 4 probably most
affordable in a grand am...and let me tell you from experience don't
bother getting the Lower output motor cuz you can't do much of any
modifying to thus cuz of the computer setup and crank timing is 15
degrees less on the LO than the HO. also HO has 10:1 compression vs 9.5,
much smaller cams and valves...more restrictive exhaust and intake
manifold...my LO runs like a bat out H*ll...pegs the rev limiter at
6900...i have 2 buddies with HO's and i can hang but it's tough cuz they
have a 7250 rev limiter and there are all kind of parts for them! The
only reason i can keep up with them is cuz mine is a plain jane no
options and it's very light...while they have power options and ground
effects. just have to find the right people! another absolute necessity
is a 5sp Muncie trans (M-19).

Jeff
Quad 4 conosaur

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:25:28 -0300
Subject: Re: More '70 ?'s

In a message dated 96-10-20 13:06:24 EDT, you write:

> The question this week concerns the factory A/C ductwork. This car has
>  a plastic panel that attached to the bottom of the dash with some
>  "mini" ducts for airflow. This is the long piece that is on the RH
side >  of the steering column. > >  Is there a similar (smaller) one
that goes either underneath the steering >  column or starts at the far
LH side of the dash and meets the larger >  one underneath the steering
column?

The A/C ductwork under the dash starts at the passenger side door post
and runs across the the steering column and stops.  There is no ductwork
running from the steering column over to the driver side door post.
Kinda strange, but true.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:45:38 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Invoices

I notice a lot of people have been referring to the fact that Oldsmobile
does not have invoices available prior to 1977.  I hate to breaik the
news to you, but it appears they do not have them prior to 1989.  I
called the Olds History Center last week to get an invoice for my 1987
Olds 442 which I purchased new and I was told by two different people
that invoices were not available prior to 1989.  I mentioned that I
thought that anything after 1977 was available and was informed
otherwise.  Have I been misled or should I try againto get an invoice
for my car.  Thanks for the information. Steve 1987 442 1976 Cutlass
S

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:20:22 -0300
Subject: Olds Fuel Injection

Tom,
I have not purchased fuel injection for my BB. I love the idea of
digital precision, consistency, etc,  and good use of big block
displacement, but I'm not convinced of the value over carburation yet. I
have a couple of problems/questions with the options I know about:

1) No one seems to do true multiport injection except what I'd guess to
be $2,500 and up custom systems. Can't justify that kind of cost or
tuning learning curve --- yet. There are some companies doing this for
Ch*vies, but I'd guess the Olds market just ain't big enough to get
their attention.

2) Multiport FI Probably wouldn't be smog legal on my Ca 1966 car, even
though it would likely reduce my emissions and improve economy as well
as (heh, heh) power. I lack legal and technical information on this
point and would love to be corrected.

3) Could bolt on a Holley throttle body injection system and gain some
power and economy I guess, but this would require some moderately exotic
fuel system plumbing, high pressure fuel lines (to *and* from the fuel
pump) and a swap back to Qjet to pass smog every 2 years. Plus mounting
the electronics, etc., etc.

One recent post was positive on a Marine application of some kind and
there was a member who said he'd bought something from Dick Miller in
response to my inquiry. No news since then.

Also my current motor has about 100K on it since .30 over rebuild at
least one weak cylinder. I'd pretty much have to redo the rings and
valves before getting exotic on induction from what I know.

Can anybody sell me on this idea?

Please?

cf

------------------------------

From: Gerald Gibson <gibson@webgate.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:54:20 -0300
Subject: Quad 4's etc..

Is there a difference in the blocks.  If I buy one I would like to
tear down the block and start from scratch.  Are there turbos and what
nots available for these engines?  It was mentioned that these 1000hp
versions had turbos.  Were these just R&D items or does someone sell
them?  Are they fuel injected?  Basically if anyone can find the time to
help out someone who doesn't know anything about Quad 4's, I'd greatly
appreciate a complete breakdown of the numbers(bore, stroke, etc..
etc..).
     BTW, I'm new to the list so I'm not sure if it's already been
discussed but Mr. Shelby is going to use the Aurora V8 in the new
Shelby's that should come out in '97.  For all of those who are worried
about where Oldsmobile is headed, this isn't the whole solution, but I'm
sure it will help somewhat.  Thanks again.

                Gerald Gibson
                gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:00:25 -0300
Subject: Olds Fuel Injection

(long post) Still more on this mildly exotic topic:

Jason,
>From the reading I've done, (and no work whatsoever) there is nothing
inherently unique to the Chevy FI system. I think what matters is that
you have the right inputs to the computer so that it sends the fuel
pulses to the right injectors at the right time, order, and amounts per
degree of revolution of the crankshaft.

I don't know what all the inputs to the CPU are, but there are at least
the following from what I've read (again, this is the original layman's
knowledge)

1) MAF -- mass airflow sensor, this measures the amount of air flowing
into the intake manifold. Data on incoming air is read into the CPU and
mapped to the right number of pulses per unit time to the correct
cylinder by a table stored in the hardware which may or may not be
modifiable (i.e. changeable from Ch*vy to Olds air/fuel requirements)

2) TPS -- throttle position sensor. This measures the degrees of opening
of the throttle, essentially how much power the driver wants. It may
also calculate the differential between what is asked for and currently
flowing through (a derivative?) to figger out how much gas to blast in
for acceleration.

3) O2 Sensor -- mounted in the exhaust manifolds and measures the O2
content of the exhaust gases. It helps maintain proper air/fuel ratio
and keep emissions in line.  A good thing, I think.

4) Thottle Body -- where the air comes into the air/fuel mixture. Shape
matters as much here as in intake manifolds. Aftermarket guys make much
of this with 5% improvements and the like. Racers have fun, but us
street guys won't be able to tell, IMHO.

5) Fuel Rail -- usually a hard metal line, plumbed to withstand the
15-50 PSI that these systems operate at. Mounts on top of the multiport
injectors and supplies them with fuel. The idea is to spray the fuel to
get better atomization, high pressure is preferable. Until or unless it
gets outside the system, they you get a MAJOR fuel leak. I'd guess this
to be scarily different from the traditional Holley leak down.

6) Fuel Injectors -- In TBI (throttle body injection) 2 or 4 of these
depending on the air CFM capacity of your throttle body. In TBI, they're
mounted above the air inlet and spray into it, not really different from
the venturi, except in pressure and digital control. Holley offers 2 TBI
flavors: 2 barrels flow up to 700 CFM, 4 barrels flow up to 900 CFM.
(Guess which one I want for my ported&polished 455 with duals...) In
multiport there is injector per cylinder and they're mounted directly on
bosses on the intake ports for each cylinder. Early factory systems
tended to TBI, newer ones tend to be multiport from what I've seen in
the junkyard.

7) CPU -- central processing unit or "computer", reads the inputs and
calculates what to do next with the injectors. I think they have
settings for idle, power, off idle cruise and WOT. Also a limp home mode
in case the whole software goes to h*ll. Some set themselves after
battery disconnection, like my 94 M*zda MX6 LS. Incidentally, this is
the place car cos. are putting power limits on their new big motors when
the cars top 130, 140 or 150. The CPU's cut fuel supply above a given
speed, implying a speedo input of some kind.

8)Wires,a solid alternator,grounds and battery.

General:
In multiport injection, there are both "batch fire" and single fire
systems. Batch fire, logically fires each bank of cylinders at a
particular time in the crank/cam revolution cycle. Single fire feels
more precise to me as each injector is fired at the right time based on
where the crank/cam is and what the other inputs require.

I don't think anyone makes an olds intake manifold with bosses on the
intake into which injectors could be mounted. From what I've read in
Ch*vy craft, the best candidates are high flow, high rpm manifolds, not
dual planes. Looks like FI gets around the low end carburetion
limitations on these manifolds.

TBI looks simplest to plumb and retrofit (i.e most like a carb),
multiport looks more complex. Single fire multiport looks most complex.
All systems I've read about require a return line to the gas tank. Good
for you guys with a/c, but I've only got one line in my car.

Factory systems are probably harder to customize/tweak than aftermarket,
but cheaper if you can figure out how to tweak 'em. Aftermarket gets $$,
but it is cool.

Sorry for the long post, but this is what I've learned so far. I hope
this helps you and that you all have much to add! cf

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:03:14 -0300
Subject: Repaint Molding/Script Warning!

Pete,
Sorry to hear about your car.There are no easy answers here.
 I know the feeling, when I had my 98 conv. redone, they broke bunch of
one year, one model only moldings AND lost the convertible top
windshield chrome (eventually they found replacements with my help...)
Suggest you check with Hall's Old's Salvage, find the number on Bryce's
page. Also check Fusicks in Connecticut. Neither source is cheap for
good stuff, but at least they may have what you need.

WARNING To All The Rest of us:
When you have your car painted, pin down the body shop about removing
and retaining the chrome moldings. Make your own list, have them sign it
and agree to remove without damaging them. Clips and moldings too. If
possible take 'em off yourself and buff them up while off. If they
remove the moldings, get them from the shop as well as all clips and
associated hardware and retain yourself 'till after the car is painted.
Replacing moldings and scripts is very hard now that all our source cars
have been turned into Corollas.

Please learn from my mistake, meanwhile I'm building up a helluva
collection of 66 Olds 98 brightwork -- for safety. cf

>The body guy I took my baby to sure screwed up..had the body redone, ie
1/4 >panels etc..well the jerk broke off the chrome off the front
fenders >instead of undoing the nuts from inside the fenders..man am I
pissed! >Needless to say I need the "CUTLASS" AND the "S" chrome pieces.
Any one >have any of these parts or knows where I can purchase them???
The car is an >OLDS 1970 2dr coupe cutlass "S". Has the "CUTLASS"
written type letters on >bothe fenders and also an "S" just below
those.. Any help would be >appreciated...HHHELLLPPP! > >Thanks, Pete > > > > >
~\\ ! //~ >                +(o o)+ > *--pete--.o00o.--(
)--.o00o.--pete--* > > ******     Pete Berisoff      ******* > *
Penticton, B.C. Canada,      * > (<:)       1(604)492-6349       (>:o) >
*******    pete@awinc.com     ******* > *******     pete@img.net
*******

------------------------------

From: Keith455@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:09:55 -0300
Subject: 1975 cutlass

Hello all, I have a '75 Cutlass for sale..take a look at it on my web
page...
 www2.combase.com/~keith455    I live in Tampa Florida, if anyone is
interested..


Keith

------------------------------

From: jev114@email.psu.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:27:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Quad 4's etc..

Yeah the blocks are about the only thing that is the same and
i'll get you some specifics this weekend...normally thay are fuel
injected but tehre are all kinds of different systems availibal like
weber downdraft carbs and all sorts of manifolds not sure on the turbo
thing for people like us but if your really interested it is surely
worth your while to contact manapart performance products they have very
indepth insight to these motors and they know all the connections. you
need info just ask i'm always willing to help out a fellow quad 4
enthuiast. to get their number go to

www.switchboard.com

    and select businesses type in mantapart and you'll find their
number....let me warn you they are hard to get a hold of...your best
luck is to leave a message and they'll get back to ya!

L8R

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:00:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc

>I believe the CAFE standards work so that you have to meet the
overall
>standard for all models (ie: they figure in the gas mileage of the
cars,
>trucks, etc., and average them out).

Exactly.


>And since they are making so many gas
>guzzling SUV's, and trucks, they have to make cars that are more
efficient
>(read as less horsepower, weenie mobiles) like we see now.
Unfortunate, and
>we pay the price.

This is why GM produces disposable junk like the Geo Metro.  Since
nobody buys these "cars", they sell 'em at a loss to the rental
companies and then add the difference into the prices of their other
cars and trucks that pepple actually do by.  Another form of indirect
(read: "hidden") taxation by the government in the name of
"environmenal protection."

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:59:11 -0300
Subject: Re: unsubscribe----------Tucker sent this to me I thought I
should share it......

Tucker@aol.com wrote:
>
> Sorry if I made anybody mad I was really getting tired of getting 100
pieces > of e-mail that I had no use in reading every time i went on
line. I tried to > get off more that 4 or 5 times but I kept getting
mail that was duplicated > sometimes 3 or more times in a 24 hour
period. Again I'm really sorry but if > getting shitty got me the
correct attention to get me off this trash e-mail > list but I was
getting swamped. If you guys have any real olds tech stuff you > need
help with I have worked at olds dealers since 72 and have owned nothing >
but rocket stuff even though I work at a buick pontiac gmc truck place
the > owner gave me tons of shit when I bought a new ciera in february
so I really > ahve rocket underwear and all that real olds stuff while
were on the subject > let me know about any 100 anniversary stuff for
next year cause I planned my > vaca to be in Lansing for it but I have
no real dates yet. Thanks for being > patient with me and PLEASE realize
the e-mail was making me crazy. Besides > the 66 442 I also own a 63-f85
convt, a 63 f-85 2dr, a 66 88 a 66 Vista > Cruiser an 86 Cutlass Brogham
2 DR, a 92 Custom cruiser Wagon the lasr year > made and a 96 ciera
wagon also the last year made so as you can see OLds's > rule in this
house

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:56:57 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: Re: unsubscribe]

Return-Path: <Tucker@aol.com>
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<bluffin@netins.net>; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:31:51 -0500 (CDT) From:
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<961020223119_1280340731@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: bluffin@netins.net
Subject: Re: unsubscribe X-UIDL: 80f6ea28612e5a9d7df6c35a4c099aec
Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 0011

Sorry if I made anybody mad I was really getting tired of getting 100
pieces of e-mail that I had no use in reading every time i went on line.
I tried to get off more that 4 or 5 times but I kept getting mail that
was duplicated sometimes 3 or more times in a 24 hour period. Again I'm
really sorry but if getting shitty got me the correct attention to get
me off this trash e-mail list but I was getting swamped. If you guys
have any real olds tech stuff you need help with I have worked at olds
dealers since 72 and have owned nothing but rocket stuff even though I
work at a buick pontiac gmc truck place the owner gave me tons of shit
when I bought a new ciera in february so I really ahve rocket underwear
and all that real olds stuff while were on the subject let me know about
any 100 anniversary stuff for next year cause I planned my vaca to be in
Lansing for it but I have no real dates yet. Thanks for being patient
with me and PLEASE realize the e-mail was making me crazy. Besides the
66 442 I also own a 63-f85 convt, a 63 f-85 2dr, a 66 88 a 66 Vista
Cruiser an 86 Cutlass Brogham 2 DR, a 92 Custom cruiser Wagon the lasr
year made and a 96 ciera wagon also the last year made so as you can see
OLds's rule in this house

------------------------------

From: pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:59:43 -0300
Subject: FREE FREE FREE FREE Parts

OK this is what I have, Stripping an 67 delta 88 and a 66 98.

The seats (bench)have no rips at all.
The carpet(god forbid anyone would want it) is self renueing (mold)
The dash came out ok and all the gauges are intact and work
Crank wing and side windows
The trim around the ft win is intact and a lovely shade of cream..
The grill looks to be ok and the turn signal trim is all there (four
layers) All the wheel well trim is ok, want the entire front wheel well?
The gas tank is going to be yanked and will join the 98's in a pile
should anyone want it All I need of the doors is the outer skin and I
would consider another bent door in trade. Still have the windows out of
the 66 98 and expect to get them out intact from the 67 88 also The
beastie had air so did the 98, any I still have both. Heater box will
come out nicely if anyone wants it, if not Hatchet Time! Still have the
grill and head light assembly out of the 66 98 also the t lights, a
little worse for the ware. I am just intirely gutting this thing so send
in requests, I am not above trading and am looking for a disk setup that
would fit the 67 88 Anyone want fr drums? I've got 5 Also any in
formation about the worth of a Buick 430 would be aprecated, runs but
really needs a tune up. I've tried selling the parts, now I'm giving
them away.

PS:  I am looking for sponsors for this Olds we race.  Just think of a
classic Olds punching through an impala, does my heart good...The season
is over and we won the last two points races..  I did, unfortunately,
find out just how long a 425 will run at 5000 RPM's,  about this long.

This has been sent before, some might remember it.  This is the last
time, not to offend anyone but the list just isn't helping any more.  To
set the record straight I see nothing wrong with restoring an old car
but to debate the shade of gray the wheels are suppose to be seems..well
pointless.  I race Olds because I found the first one for $100.  I
continue to race Olds b/c they are heavier than a Chevy, Mopar or Ford
(look no ***'s).  I would race a caddy but I can barely afford parts for
the Olds.  The weight helps in that it takes a harder hit to spin the
car out and the car can absorb a harder hit with out changing the
suspension.  I am a fan of the low tec.  I run a Lincon Locker(go ask a
4WD buddy) and when we couldn't the right duel exhaust manifold I
grabbed any old left hand (came from a Buick I think..) whacked off the
end with a band saw and welded it back on pointed the right way with
cast iron rod.  Then we shimmed the motor mounts to tip the motor so it
wouldn't rub on the  rag joint as hard.  This will bother some of you
but I panted the valve covers and the intake Ford blue just to make a
really nasty contrast.  I have learned allot from here, Mr. Witt was
very helpful, as was Mr. W and who ever posted about curing the poor oil
return. I think that is what finally killed my 425.  I do have one more
request, any ideas on how to make a buzz?  I would like to make the car
the "Green Hornet" next year(yes I know that was a Mopar).  The only
tips I have to give is to remove the body bushings and to drop the trany
cross member to the bottom of the frame.  As an after thought I wonder
how long the points and condenser lasted after the reducer was removed?
Did I call that one or what.(very old string)

 If your ever in Kalispell Montana go to Raceway Park and watch the
bombers run.  Look for an Oldsmobile, there is more than one, mine is
the one with the TAXI light on the back dash.  It shouldn't be hard to
spot, on any given night there is a piece of Impala stuck in the front
grill. Kenneth

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:08:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Salesmen's prices,equip,colors,trims specs

I would definitely be interested...

JR
a soon-to-be rocket owner

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:14:54 -0300
Subject: New guy needs help

I am looking for a '71 to '72 Cutlass 2dr hardtop for a restoration
project. The classic "car behind the barn" would be nice, but, in the
real world I would like to find one in Texas that isn't rusty and is
80%+ complete.

Also, I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me privately
what the different Cutlass models were during these years. (Cutlass
'S", Supreme, etc.) It would help me to be able to identify the
different models.

Thanks,

JR
A soon-to-be rocket owner

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:53:25 -0300
Subject: re:chevy/olds

Hey guys,

	I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes Friday.  I was in a hurry and
didn't realize how the message came across until this morning.  As some
of you pointed out there are various differences between the two.  I
just want to say that I like both and realize most of you do too.  By
the way, thanks to the those who sent me email about the fact that I was
only sending messages to the digest.  I just switched to the digest
about three weeks ago.

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:09:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Invoices

> I notice a lot of people have been referring to the fact that
Oldsmobile does > not have invoices available prior to 1977.  I hate to
breaik the news to you, > but it appears they do not have them prior to
1989.  I called the Olds History > Center last week to get an invoice
for my 1987 Olds 442 which I purchased new > and I was told by two
different people that invoices were not available prior to > 1989.  I
mentioned that I thought that anything after 1977 was available and was >
informed otherwise.  Have I been misled or should I try againto get an
invoice > for my car.  Thanks for the information.


Steve,

What seems to be happening here is that Olds has no invoices prior to
YESTERDAY!



Dan



***********************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Athens, Ohio
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Convertible
***********************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:31:08 -0300
Subject: Email Tips (non Olds) Was: Quad 4's etc..

jev114@email.psu.edu wrote:
>
> www.switchboard.com

If you use the full form of the URL, it will create a clickable link in
most browsers.  For example:
	
http://www.switchboard.com/

And here a couple more links useful for tracking somebody down:

Bigfoot                       http://www.bigfoot.com/
Internet Address Finder       http://www.iaf.net/
Four11 Directory              http://www.Four11.com/
Telephone Directories         http://www.contractjobs.com/tel/

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:56:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>

>I just received in the mail today (Friday, the 18th) my copy of the
book >by Helen Earley and James R. Walkinshaw that Oldsmobile division
is >sending to all members of Oldsmobile car clubs.  The book is
entitled >"Setting the Pace - Oldsmobiles First 100 Years," and it is,
in a word, >stunning.  I am very impressed, and I'm sure this would set
you back at >least $40 or $50 at the local Waldenbooks, if they had it.

I was suprised to find "Setting the Pace" in my mail box on Friday as
well.  Its a huge book, running 496 pages.  It looks (and weighs) like
a volume of an Encylopedia set.

After spending most of the weekend reading sections of it, all I can say
is wow!.  This book alone should provide fodder for discussions on this
mail list for quite some time. :-)

Some notes to get us started.

Although they spend a couple of pages on the birth of the Toronado,
its demise in the early '90's isnt even mentioned.  The quote from the
factory guy on the Toronado is a classic.  Paraphrasing, 'the car was
known around the plant as the Mafia, due to the long hood...'  Also,
Olds let him take Toro prototype #13 on his vacation. Pretty cool.

There is a mention of  how the moniker's F-85 and Cutlass
came about.  Both have roots in Aviation, F-85 sounding like a fighter
jet name and Cutlass actually being a the name of a plane.

I thought the discussions on Engine building and testing were
interesting. They mentioned that they tested engines for twice as many
hours as GM standards dictated.  There was a comment on how Olds engines
were better engineered and more durable than competing Pontiac engines.
One guy is quoted as saying something along the lines of 'while Pontiac
guys are constantly adjusting their valves, Olds cars just keep
running'.

The book gives us a peek into the corporate culture in Lansing, often
refering to workers as family.  I think they attribute some of Olds
downfall to the corporate restructuring thru the '80's when the plants
were pulled out from under Olds control and put under corporate
GM (BOP, etc).

Overall the book is a must for anyone interested in Olds history.
I might have murdered some of the quotes above.  If anybody wants
the exact quotes I can lug the book into work and type the text
verbatim...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:06:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

> There is a mention of  how the moniker's F-85 and Cutlass
> came about.  Both have roots in Aviation, F-85 sounding like a fighter
> jet name and Cutlass actually being a the name of a plane.

I had heard that the "F" in F-85 originally referred to a smaller
wheelbase vehicle.  This is in contrast to the "L" series vehicles,
such as the 1941 L-98, where the L referred to the long wheelbase
Olds.


Dan


***********************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Athens, Ohio
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Convertible
***********************************************

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:07:17 -0300
Subject: Olds Target  Market

I really don't keep up with the new olds much, since the look of the =
cutlass went down the toilet in 1988. But, from my limited knowledge, =
its seems that olds wants to stay with the "family" cars, utility =
vehicles... mini vans, and cars made for the granola crowd who only want
= good gas mileage? What about the rest of us? They don't seem to make a
= car with "presence" anymore. They are either "cute" or "eurosporty",
two = designs which I find totally disgusting.

Anyone have any ideas on who their target market is, besides, not us? =
Hiedi?

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:30:37 -0300
Subject: 86 442

Hello,

	I have a question that is probably pretty simple.  I have an 86 Cutlass
442 with the stock 200-4R overdrive transmission.  I own two other cars,
a '70 Nova with a three speed and a '78 Impala with a TH350.  Both of
these cars have a firm feeling suspension.  The Cutlass's tranmission
has been rebuilt to stock specs.  It feels kinda of mushy, I guess
that's how you would describe it.  When you put the gas down a little
over half way it takes off fine,  but if you put it to the floor you can
hear the motor just rev up and the car doesn't begin to pick up for
several seconds.  It does this when hitting passing gear also.  Also the
factory tach is reading 6 grand when this happens, but seeing as how the
factory tachs don't work exactly right (so I was told) I'm not sure what
rpm's it's turning.  Is this normal, can I add a shift kit to help (or
can I adjust the shift points),  and is there anyway to get the factory
tach to work right? Thanks to anyone who can help me out (I know I've
asked a lot).

Thanks again,
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:26:37 -0300
Subject: Say It Isn't So!

While reading the big spread on the new 97 cars in Sunday's Orlando
Sentinel, I noticed something that I find VERY alarming...

This is the last year for the Cutlass Supreme!  The name will live on
in the small, 4-door clone of the new Malibu...but the car is dead
and gone after this year.

What are these people thinking?

And I thought 1988 was bad!


- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:44:03 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Book

Hello Everyone,

I have received many requests on how to get a copy of "Setting the Pace,
Oldsmobiles First 100 Years".  If you would like a copy I talked with
the authors today and they should be available at the REO museum in
Lansing, MI within the next week or so.  Their number is 517-372-0529
and the ~cost is $30 with tax and shipping or you can pick one up
yourself and save the shipping cost. :-)

It is really a great resource.

Olds Heidi

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:57:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile and Heidi

Hello Greg,

Thanks for your support regarding Pauls comments on Saturday.  I was not
logged in over the weekend so did not see his post til this morning.  I
welcome all opinions and plan on taking the digests that I get from this
list and forwarding them on to the brand teams as appropriate.  I am not
a "tech" so will not be jumping in on how to "fix"  cars ;-) ... but I
would like to help on finding classic info where I can and keeping
people posted on Centennial plans if there is an interest.

Thanks again :-)
Olds Heidi

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:03:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

OldsHeidi@aol.com wrote:
>
> ...they should be available at the REO museum in Lansing, MI
> within the next week or so.

Excellent!  Thanks for the info, Heidi.  Dialing now...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:03:19 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile Book


There is a mention of  how the moniker's F-85 and Cutlass
came about.  Both have roots in Aviation, F-85 sounding like a fighter
jet name and Cutlass actually being a the name of a plane....

          I always thought that the F-85 was derived from the F-88, a
          1954 Olds showcar which was basically a 54 Corvette with
          Oldsmobile grille and taillights (and I assume an Olds V-8,
          as the Vette was only available with the Blue Flame Six at
          the time).  Interestingly enough, the F-88 is apparently
          privately owned and is advertised for sale in this month's
          Hemmings!  If you have to ask, you can't afford
          it...although I've often fantasized about building a replica
          using one of the '55 Corvette kit cars on the market.

          And yes, the F-88 is probably a cross between the F-86
          Saberjet of Korean War fame (remember, this was 1954) and
          the Olds 88.  The Cutlass was a carrier-based fighter jet of
          about the same vintage.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:20:02 -0300
Subject: race and contact list

Raced somebody in my '84 Cutlass with the 350 rocket in it for the first
 time over the weekend.  I lost, but I don't think that I did too bad.
I was racing an S10 (yes, an S10) with an '83(?) 'vette 350 motor and
an automatic.  He pulled out and immediately took the lead, but I
started catching up to him after about 50 or so.  By the time we had
hit the 1/4 mark, I was only about 2 car lengths back from him.  He was
VERY suprised when I told him that my '74 350 was just stock.  I very
possibly might have been able to get hime top-end.  Of course, I've got
2:41 rear-end too.  I need a better rear-end BAD!!!  Any suggestions
for my 350 4bbl. TH400 combo? Other things I can improve on:  Still
using the "bean-can, bigger-than-the-one-on-my-429-Ford, breather.  I
figure one of those nice little chrome breathers would help A LOT.
Tried one once-- it helped my bottom end acceleration.  Any other
suggestions for CHEAP improvements. The motor is "bone stock" and so
is the tranny.

It must be a full moon tonight or something, because people were driving
 crazy today.  One of those Z71 off road Chevy trucks locked 'em down
in front of me this morning on the way to the college, and I had to hop
a curb and run up the median-- Hope I didn't hurt my exhaust.

Also, there have been a couple of people join the list as of lateley,
and also I recieved a couple questions about the address of the contact
list. So let me recap a little bit.

In order for members of the Oldsmobile mailing list to contact each
other easier, and to enable members to find other members in there
area, it was decided that a contact list (sort of like the one on the
Toro list) would be a good idea.  I volunteered to begin creating this
contact list. There is an online form for adding your name and
information to this list.  This form is at:
http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html If you don't have
net access, please send me a message at: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
People are certainly entitled their privacy, and the questions on this
form don't "HAVE" to all be answered, but it would be nice to at least
have name, e-mail address, and city for everybody on the list.   Once I
recieve your information, I post it-- everybody has a seperate page!
The contact list is located at:
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html Or you can
look at your individual page at:
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/"the first 8 letters of
 your last name".html

For the future:
Me and Mike Frederick decided that it would be a good idea to be able to
 get a list of everybody on the list in your state.  I've got what I
think might be a good idea, but I would like to know if there is
anybody experienced with imagemaps who could answer some questions for
me.

Also, to whoever is in charge of the Olds FAQ.  As the owner of an '80
Rover 3500 with the [former Olds] 215 V8, I would be happy to provide
some more info on its history if I can.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:22:35 -0300
Subject: Repeat Mail

Am I the only one who is getting repeat mail from the 20th?

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:25:38 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Invoices

Hello,
      Even more bad news for anyone wanting Oldsmobile invoices.  I just
talked to the Olds History Center again this morning and received an
explanation about acquiring invoices.  I was told that they used to be
able to retrieve invoices back to 1977 but that this is no longer
possible.  I believe that we need to write to Oldsmobile and put forth a
group effort to try to get the Olds History Center access to veicle
invoices again.  I do not have an address but if anyone does, please
post it.
 Steve Ochs
 1987 442
 1976 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:44:59 -0300
Subject: Re:Help please

Hi,

I have been having problems with my insurance carrier (Southern
California Autoclub) in that they do not consider my car a classic (68
442)!  They screwed up my coverage (you know how that goes) as I found
out when I took my other Olds off the books.  I thought I had full
coverage, but I didn't. Needless to say, in their minds this is a $500
car, in my mind NOT!!!!  They want me to get an appraisal or find ads in
the newspaper showing the cost of buying another car [my local paper is
chock-full of 68 Olds 442 cars ;-) ]!!!

I need help identifying what I have and what is a fair market value for
my ~baby~.  I am not mechanically inclined so forgive my ignorance when
describing where numbers are found on which parts.

VIN 344778Z103046
Oil Filler Tube 8091217 (Last number questionable)
Driver's side of motor under Value covers:
  394 548
  and further down
  389269 LH
  @D1 BR
  #276@                @ => looks like a plus sign with a circle around
it
                       # => looks like a slash sign with a circle around
it

#256@ on top of intake manifold
A star (asterisk) looking stamping on the top part of the engine under
the air filter pan

On A/C bracket (holder)
  391366
  *D1                  * => This asterisk is encircled
  @248#

Fischer body....
    10C 004227 410196
 ST 68 3477 BF 00054 B0?  \
 TR 957 B80 B90 FF ?      / These last parts I couldn't make out


How can I determine if this is a W30 (QT) or a QS?
Is it a sports coupe or a hardtop coupe.  I have window posts.

This is all I can figure out now.  Any help would be sincerely
appreciated.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:53:08 -0300
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile Book

I just called to order. Since I live in NH, I don't pay tax so what
percentage of the 30.00 is
for tax and what portion is shipping? Should I be looking at 25.00 or
so?

- ----------
From: 	OldsHeidi@aol.com[SMTP:OldsHeidi@aol.com]
Sent: 	Monday, October 21, 1996 9:44 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Oldsmobile Book

Hello Everyone,

I have received many requests on how to get a copy of "Setting the Pace,
Oldsmobiles First 100 Years".  If you would like a copy I talked with
the authors today and they should be available at the REO museum in
Lansing, MI within the next week or so.  Their number is 517-372-0529
and the ~cost is $30 with tax and shipping or you can pick one up
yourself and save the shipping cost. :-)

It is really a great resource.

Olds Heidi

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:59:56 -0300
Subject: Olds History Center Address

To write to the Hitory Center

Oldsmobile
Atten. History Center
920 Townsend
Lansing, Mi 48921
MS 1020

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:17:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Target Market

Hello,

You present a very good question regarding Oldsmobile's target market.
As you are all aware many of the cars in our line are changing or have
changed in the last year.  We respect our long time supporters and hope
that we will not lose them with this wave of change by offering our own
brand character. The current seems to be moving to position Oldsmobile
to go after the imports. The discussion regarding the new logo and how
it looks very "importish" is a very good example of that movement.    I
know I may be stepping in deep with this statement but... I would be
happy to pass on any comments to "bigger waves" .

Olds Heidi
Lansing, MI

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:21:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile and Heidi

>I welcome all opinions and plan on taking the digests that I get
>from this list and forwarding them on to the brand teams as
>appropriate.
>[...]
>Thanks again :-)
>Olds Heidi

Perhaps you could use your real name in future? It looks much better
when corresponding, especially since you state you are speaking for
the company.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:49:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Super Charging....

OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:
>
> At the Olds Performance Sunday show two weeks ago, a guy told me about
a > supercharger he installed on his 350 Olds.  He said it mounted on
the > passenger side of the engine and was cooled by oil from the
engine.  The oil > then runs back down to a hole in the oil pan.  The
output of the supercharger > was then fed to the top of the carb.  He
didn't have the name of the super > charger, but he said it made an
incredible difference in power. > > So this leads me to ask few
questions:  (maybe this guy was a BS'er) > -He didn't know the name, but
he said it wasn't Paxton of Vortech, so does > anybody  know of any
other makes like the one I mentioned???

Sounds like a centrifugal charger to me.  Powerdyne maybe?  That, and
Paxton and Vortech are the only makers of this type that I've heard of.


> -I am not positive, but I thought you could only run a supercharger on
a fuel > injection  engine.

You can definitely supercharge a carburated engine.  Don't know the
details, but know that it can be done (I mean, supercharging was around
long before FI right???).  Paxton sells an airbox type thing with some
of its kits that goes around the carb.  The charger pressurizes the box
so the whole carb is pressurized, not just the air inlet.  I think this
is because if you just pressurize the inlet, it can't meter the fuel
correctly or something like that.


> -Has anybody put a supercharger or a turbo on an Olds???
>

Nope, although I wish I had one.  Paxton looks like the best bet.  I've
got catalogs from them and Vortech.  Looks like Vortech sells mostly
kits whereas Paxton sells kits and 'generic' kits (GM SB, Ford SB, etc)
that will let you customize to fit most engines/vehicles.


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Jason Oness <onessjp@AXP.CALUMET.PURDUE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 07:53:06 -0300
Subject: modifications

I own a 85 cutlass supreme. I am interested in putting a front scoop and
 rear spoiler on the car. If any one can help me locate these items, it
 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

				Jason Oness
				Onessjp@axp.calumet.purdue.edu

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:57:27 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Here in Dallas along one of the major highways we have an
Oldsmobile dealership set up right next door to an Infinity dealer.
Both shops have their respective marquees several hundred feet
in the air.  Driving by yesterday it really hit home just how
similar the two logos are.

I think this goes hand in hand with something Mike said
earlier about "emulating rather than innovating"...

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:04:17 -0300
Subject: Re: GN

Hi,

  Does anyone know the curb weight for the Buick Grand National?

chris sparks

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:59:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Super Charging....

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> At 09:53 PM 10/20/96 -0300, OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:
> >At the Olds Performance Sunday show two weeks ago, a guy told me
about a > >supercharger he installed on his 350 Olds.  He said it
mounted on the > >passenger side of the engine and was cooled by oil
from the engine.  The oil > >then runs back down to a hole in the oil
pan.  The output of the supercharger > >was then fed to the top of the
carb.  He didn't have the name of the super > >charger, but he said it
made an incredible difference in power. > > I would love to know more
about this as I have an A-trim Paxton supercharger > on a totaled to
hell 94 Trans Am setting in the salvage yard calling my > name. Could
this be made to fit my 80 Olds 350 engine?  I don't know much > about
superchargers and if they are universal or not.

Yes, the actual super charger seems to be.  Paxton, for instance has 3
models. These are off the top of my head so the psi may not be exactly
right.  I'll check the catalog tonight to make sure.  Don't remember the
model numbers, but

   1)  5-8 psi                              -- street
   1a) 10-12 psi with optional impeller     -- street

   2)  around 17 psi                        -- race only

   3)  around 25 psi                        -- super race??? , marine
maybe?


They also say that 5 psi will give about 45% more power and can be
safely used with up to 10 to 1 compression ratios.  8 psi can use 9.?
ratio.  I'll check the details tonight and give an update.


> >
> >So this leads me to ask few questions:  (maybe this guy was a BS'er)
> >-He didn't know the name, but he said it wasn't Paxton of Vortech, so
does > >anybody  know of any other makes like the one I mentioned??? >
>-I am not positive, but I thought you could only run a supercharger on
a fuel > >injection  engine. > > I know that Vortech makes a model for
carbed 82-86 GM 305 and 350's. They > claim that the power gain is not
as good as it would be on a fuel injected > engine.


One other tidbit, Paxton claims to pressurize the air with the lowest
resulting temperature and doesn't need an intercooler.


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:55:17 -0300
Subject: Re: New guy needs help

At 05:14 AM 10/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am looking for a '71 to '72 Cutlass 2dr hardtop for a restoration
project. >The classic "car behind the barn" would be nice, but, in the
real world I >would like to find one in Texas that isn't rusty and is
80%+ complete. > >Also, I would appreciate it if someone could explain
to me privately what the >different Cutlass models were during these
years. (Cutlass 'S", Supreme, >etc.) It would help me to be able to
identify the different models.

Well, I can't help you on getting a Texas car, but here are a few
comments:

* The F-85 was the base-model in the Cutlass lineup (was it even called
a Cutlass?), available in two and four-door versions. * The Cutlass "S"
was what most people bought, and came in a fastback version, as did the
442. * The Cutlass Supreme came in the unique notchback body style, and
only in hardtop ("Holiday Coupe") form in the 2-door, while I believe a
4-door version was available, but which shared the regular Cutlass
shell. This shell was the one used for the 1972 Hurst/Olds. In '70-'71,
the SX version had the 455 as standard; others came with 350's. * All
convertibles, whether Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme or 442 used the same
shell.

* The high-compression 1970 motors can run on today's premium unleaded
fuel, so don't rule that model-year out (it's my favorite, personally).
It differs from the '71-'72's only in the grille and bumpers' styles.

* A 442 will hold its value best, if you are looking to invest in this
thing.

* Most all parts are available, but can get expensive; try to get as
complete a car as possible, in as good a shape as possible. In the long
run, getting a car that is 95% perfect will be much cheaper than getting
an 80% perfect car and restoring it, which would be much cheaper than
getting a 50% car into top shape, etc. etc.

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:06:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Quad 4's etc..

Gerald Gibson wrote:
>
> Is there a difference in the blocks.  If I buy one I would like to
> tear down the block and start from scratch.  Are there turbos and what

You might check the GM performance parts catalog.  About $7 - $8 at your
local GM dealer.  They sell blocks and performance parts for the Quad4.
No turbos, but they do have some performance parts for it.  Don't
remember for sure, but they may have a block for performance build-ups
as well as the production type.


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:20:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Repeat Mail

>Am I the only one who is getting repeat mail from the 20th?

I've gotten a few recently, say in the last week or so.  I though it was
tuckers ghost saying "me too" when no one else had a cause to!:)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:04:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Super Charging....

     I don't know if anyone makes one for an Olds specifically, but one
of
     the car magazines did a write up on installing one of these on a
305
     Ch*vy a while back.  I don't remember the make either, but I
thought
     it was one of the popular ones like Paxton or Vortech.  Anyways,
the
     kit was simple enough that it could be adapted to an Olds engine.
All
     you'd have to fabricate would be a bracket to make the Ch*vy kit
work.

     It was an external dry type (centrifugal?), not a wet (wet/dry
meaning
     pressurizing the fuel/air or just air) roots type that pumped air
up
     to an air-tight box that fit around the quadrajet carb.  It seems
     logical to me that you would have to do it this way and pressurize
     both inside and outside the carb so that all your ported vacuum
     goodies still worked.  So it's probably possible, just not easy or
     pretty.  That's why superchargers are much more popular on FI cars,

     just plumb it up to the intake and away you go.

     These things are darned expensive, and it seems to me that you'd be

     far better off spending the money on a high-po rebuild unless a)
this
     is your only alternative for more power from an emissions
standpoint
     or b) you've already done the hi-po rebuild and want yet
_more_power_
     (ur, ur, ugh, grunt).  You would definitely get more power,
especially
     if you built the engine to handle a supercharger (forged pistons,
low
     compression, maybe 8.0:1).  Then run maybe 8psi which ideally would
be
     stuffing about 50% more fuel/air into the engine effectively
     increasing your displacement by 50%.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Olds Super Charging....
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/20/96 6:18 PM

So this leads me to ask few questions:  (maybe this guy was a BS'er)
- -He didn't know the name, but he said it wasn't Paxton of Vortech, so
does anybody  know of any other makes like the one I mentioned??? - -I
am not positive, but I thought you could only run a supercharger on a
fuel injection  engine. - -Has anybody put a supercharger or a turbo on
an Olds???


------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:12:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

Christian Fair wrote:
>
>
> (long post) Still more on this mildly exotic topic:
>
> Jason,
> >From the reading I've done, (and no work whatsoever) there is nothing
> inherently unique to the Chevy FI system. I think what matters is that
you > have the right > inputs to the computer so that it sends the fuel
pulses to the right injectors > at the right time, order, and amounts
per degree of revolution of the > crankshaft. > > I don't know what all
the inputs to the CPU are, but there are at least the > following from
what I've read (again, this is the original layman's knowledge) > > 1)
MAF -- mass airflow sensor, this measures the amount of air flowing into


I've heard of open-loop and closed-loop systems.  The difference has
something to do with the O2 sensor I think.  Anybody know the difference
 between these two types??


- --Dan

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:11:00 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc

     I once heard that during the late 80's/early 90's that F*rd
actually
     sold their Escorts at a loss for this exact reason.  To bring down
     their CAFE numbers so that they could sell more Lincon's, which is
     where they were making their money.

     Is this Olds related?  Well, an Escort (The GT model, not your
     ordinary Escort don't y'know!) tried to race me last week.  It was
     almost as funny as the Bug with the lumpy cam that wanted to race
the
     previous week.  I felt like I was beating up on little girls.

     Tom.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Olds, Racing,
Advertising, etc Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:
10/20/96 6:48 PM

I believe the CAFE standards work so that you have to meet the overall
standard for all models (ie: they figure in the gas mileage of the cars,
 trucks, etc., and average them out).  And since they are making so
many gas guzzling SUV's, and trucks, they have to make cars that are
more efficient (read as less horsepower, weenie mobiles) like we see
now.  Unfortunate, and we pay the price.

Chris.


------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:14:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Super Charging....

> I would love to know more about this as I have an A-trim Paxton
supercharger > on a totaled to hell 94 Trans Am setting in the salvage
yard calling my > name. Could this be made to fit my 80 Olds 350 engine?
I don't know much > about superchargers and if they are universal or
not.

Purely as a datapoint, the factory supercharger on my '93 SSEi runs
with its own sealed, silicone-based lubrication system and does not
share oil with the engine. I'm guessing that it might be made by Eaton;
the 3800 Series II on later cars was made by them.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:41:01 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile Book

     I can't wait to get my copy!

     A Cutlass is actually a type of sword.  It's the small, curved,
     thick-and-sturdy type commonly used by priates (when they're not
using
     a rapier or scimitar).  I'm sure this is what the plane was named
for.

     I have a friend who's an honest-to-god bladesmith.  I've been
toying
     around with the idea of having him make me one.  He does really
nice
     work.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/21/96 6:03 AM

There is a mention of  how the moniker's F-85 and Cutlass
came about.  Both have roots in Aviation, F-85 sounding like a fighter
jet name and Cutlass actually being a the name of a plane.


------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:50:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 442

>Hello,

  snip

  but if you put it to the floor you can hear the motor just rev up and
the car doesn't begin to pick up for several seconds.  It does this when
hitting passing gear also.

     This does not sound normal.

 Also the factory tach is reading 6 grand when this happens,

Ouch!

The first thing I'd suggest is to double check the tranny fluid (hot,
idle in park, etc)  If that's OK, and the problems are as you say, I'd
have a reputable shop do pressure tests to determine what is going on in
there. I'm guessing that the 6grand you are seeing is the engine's free
revving limit or close to it.  Sounds like severe slippage or delayed
engagement to me, which are not good conditions, especially for a tranny
that's just been rebuilt.  Take it back to them and explain the problem
(if it was professionally built) and see what they say.  They should
stand behind their work, I'd hope.
     BTW, what engine is in there?  An Olds?  Are you sure it's not the
tires spinning!!! :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:50:56 -0300
Subject: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

     We've all been hit fairly hard by Oldsmobile's disregard for our
desire to see cool cars, and as many have commented this happenned
around '88. They had one ~real~ front driver, what more could ya want
right:)  I see now that our friendly Cutlass is historical now, so we
need to act fast to save our planet (OK, maybe a little ~too~
sentimental, but...)
     Anyway, Heidi, this is where we need you.  (since you might be able
to get this to the design teams, and the other channels.)  What we need
to see is a ~new~ 442, based on the Firechicken platform (Oh and I guess
chevy made a similar car, what was it called;)   It should have the
Aurora, or even the Northstar, since it's bigger, and Olds made that one
for Caddy, anyway. ~REAR~ wheel drive (remember when front wheel drive
only meant a cool car? We'd need to get Olds to tool out a casing for a
BOP 4L80E to use, since they kick you know what!  Maybe we should have
them supercharge the Aurora, what do ya think...  That would have a
coolness to it.  Has to have ram air snorkels that don't look like a
beak or something.  Do we have any good artists on the list?  Maybe I'll
have to try sketching something out someday.  I did one in high school
molding an '84 into an F body style, it was pretty cool.  It's gotta
have big fat tires all over the place, too:) We'll show those bowties
what speed, cornering, ~and~ comfort is all about! (We always have,
right?)
     Well group, Heidi, anyone else... What do you think?  It's a
fantasy, I'm sure, but it's worth at least some screen-dream time
anyway...
     On the other hand, our list is powerful enough that we could
threaten to never buy another new Olds, and make sure no one else does
either, and they might take a noticing to that!

     As for the new ones being ugly...   I agree to an extent, but I
~really~ do like the '93 Cutlass Supreme SL's w/aero package and ~non~
composite headlights (the ones that looked like 6 of them)  I think it's
the plastic headlights that I hated the most on these cars! Even the 87
turned me off that way.  (That and the grill looked like it belonged to
a different car completely...)

     Enough babbling now.  I'm off to work.  Later all...


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:56:03 -0300
Subject: Re: modifications

     Lauren Engineering makes what you're looking for.  Their address is
on
     http://www.442.com.

     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: modifications Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/21/96 9:04 AM


I own a 85 cutlass supreme. I am interested in putting a front scoop and
 rear spoiler on the car. If any one can help me locate these items, it
 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

    Jason Oness
    Onessjp@axp.calumet.purdue.edu



------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:03:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

buehner wrote:
>
> What we need to see is a ~new~ 442, based on the Firechicken platform
> Do we have any good artists on the list?

Taking break from Heretic project...  Working...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:04:43 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Target Market

Hi,

Has it then been identified that there isn't enough money in the sports
= car/muscle car arena for olds to participate? How much of Chevys
revenue = is attributed to Corvettes? Probably very little, but then why
do they = keep producing them? Maybe only to retain the image that they
are not = old farts? Is it too late for olds to get rid of the old fart
reputation = or just too expensive? I don't think the 1988 ad campaign
worked. (Not = your fathers oldsmobile, I agreed, it was more like my
mothers. My dad = wouldn't have been caught dead in those things. :))

Now you have me all cranked up. I bought my Cutlass in 1986, new, and =
have been waiting 10 years, almost 11 to trade it in for a new olds....
= I am still waiting.... :)=20

As long as there is enough revenue to be had in mediocrity, nothing will
= change.=20 - ---------- From:
	OldsHeidi@aol.com[SMTP:OldsHeidi@aol.com] Sent: 	Monday, 
October 21,
1996 11:17 AM To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca Subject: 	Re: Olds 
Target
Market

Hello,

You present a very good question regarding Oldsmobile's target market.
=
 As
you are all aware many of the cars in our line are changing or have =
changed
in the last year.  We respect our long time supporters and hope that we
= will not lose them with this wave of change by offering our own brand
= character. The current seems to be moving to position Oldsmobile to go
after the imports. The discussion regarding the new logo and how it
looks very "importish" is a very good example of that movement.    I
know I may be stepping in deep with this statement but... I would be
happy to pass on = any comments to "bigger waves" .

Olds Heidi
Lansing, MI

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:06:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

>From somewhere in Montana, Charlie sez:

>      Anyway, Heidi, this is where we need you.  (since you might be
able to > get this to the design teams, and the other channels.)  What
we need to see > is a ~new~ 442, based on the Firechicken platform (Oh
and I guess chevy made > a similar car, what was it called;)

Funny you should mention the F-Body platform.... years ago, when I was
young and stupid (as opposed to old and ignorant today :) ), I bought a
new '82 Berlinetta.  At a dinner party at my grandparents' house a
coupla months later, I was talking to a gent who was some sort of
Northeast rep for Oldsmobile. Forget his name, sorry.  Anyways, he was
looking at my car, and was saying something like "Boy, if corporate
would just let us have the F-Body, just imagine what we could do w/it"
or something to that effect.

> It should have the Aurora, or even the Northstar, since it's bigger,
and Olds made that one for Caddy, anyway.

LOL, Charlie... love your revisionist history!  This must be more of
that sour grapes stuff, I guess  :)

>      Well group, Heidi, anyone else... What do you think?  It's a
fantasy, > I'm sure, but it's worth at least some screen-dream time
anyway...

I think an Olds-based F-Body has some merit... much more so than
building a mini-van -- Oh, too late, forgot the Silhouette :)

Perhaps in line with this, what *is* Carroll shelby building with an
Aurora V8? And, would/could/should it be something that is carried
exclusively in Olds' showrooms?

>      On the other hand, our list is powerful enough that we could
threaten > to never buy another new Olds, and make sure no one else does
either, and > they might take a noticing to that!

Even if this list had such sway over the gen'l populous, methinks that
GM corporate would simply say, in an Eddie Murphy voice, "La-la-la-la, I
can't hear you!"

'course, after 3 days of torrential rain here in the Northeast, I'm
feeling a mite grumpy and cynical...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:06:55 -0300
Subject: RE: GN

Which year? They changed body styles. 86 was the regal and wasn't the 87
that boxy looking century style?

- ----------
From: 	Chris Sparks[SMTP:sparks@aisf.com]
Sent: 	Monday, October 21, 1996 12:04 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: GN

Hi,

  Does anyone know the curb weight for the Buick Grand National?

chris sparks

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 07:04:14 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 442

     First, is the TV cable adjusted properly?  This should be the first

     thing to check.

     Second, are you sure it's the _same_ tranny after the rebuild.  Not

     just some other 200-4R out of a Cadillac that the tranny shop
     exchanged?  The 442 and H/O don't use your ordinary 200-4R, they
have
     a different valve body and a few other different calibrations that
     make them the wonderful things they are (IMHO :-) ).

     Yes there are shift kits for this tranny.  I highly recommend
checking
     out the Buick web site at http://ni.umd.edu:80/gnttype/www and
     visiting their technical archives.  In which you'll find plenty of
     documentation on this tranny and plenty of recommendations and
     personal experiences with shift kits.  The turbo Buicks come with
this
     same tranny, with a similar (if not identical) high-performance
valve
     body.

     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: 86 442 Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/21/96 6:48 AM

I have a question that is probably pretty simple.  I have an 86 Cutlass
442 with the stock 200-4R overdrive transmission.

The Cutlass's tranmission has been rebuilt to stock specs.  It f eels
kinda of mushy, I guess that's how you would describe it.  When you put
the gas down a little over half way it takes off fine,  but if you put
it to the floo r you can hear the motor just rev up and the car doesn't
begin to pick up for sev eral seconds.  It does this when hitting
passing gear also.  Also the factory tac h is reading 6 grand when this
happens, but seeing as how the factory tachs don't
 work exactly right (so I was told) I'm not sure what rpm's it's
turning.  Is
 thi
s normal, can I add a shift kit to help (or can I adjust the shift
points),  and is there anyway to get the factory tach to work right?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out (I know I've asked a lot).

Thanks again,
Steve Cannon


------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:23:17 -0300
Subject: RE: GN

>
> Which year? They changed body styles. 86 was the regal and wasn't the
87 that boxy looking century style? > I just wanted to get a rough
idea.  Since this is supposedly a very fast car, I wanted to see if
weight was a contributing factor.

Chris

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:27:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Target Market

Joanne Beausoleil wrote:
>
> How much of Chevys revenue is attributed to Corvettes? Probably very
> little, but then why do they keep producing them? Maybe only to retain
 > the image that they are not old farts?

Besides the Corvette, the Fire/Chevychicken seems to be a pretty good
sellers judging by the number of them running around Tampa Bay.

> Is it too late for olds to get rid of the old fart reputation or just
> too expensive?

Ah, Joanne!  You have such a way with words.

> I bought my Cutlass in 1986, new, and  have been waiting 10 years,
> almost 11 to trade it in for a new olds... I am still waitin

> As long as there is enough revenue to be had in mediocrity, nothing
> will change.

We hold these truths to be self evident.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:23:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!

On 21 Oct 96 at 13:50, buehner wrote:

> get this to the design teams, and the other channels.)  What we need
> to see is a ~new~ 442, based on the Firechicken platform (Oh and I

    Actually, this may be (in historical terms) more correct for a
    442.  The 442 has always differed itself from the F-Body, and
    why would we want a copy of that, when we can assemble a
    'unique' car?  My idea is: take the new Intrigue, chop off the
    rear doors, make it a 2+2, and drop it on the f-body platform.
    The roof line could be retained from the f-body, giving a low,
    chopped look.  Then throw in a Aurora V8 with the corporate 6
    speed, mildly recammed to boost torque.  Have the usual array of
    Olds options available, and a W-30 style hood as another option
    (for the forced cool air freaks:-) ).

    Since it is residing on the F-Body platform, rear wheel drive is
    a given.

Thoughts?

Now feverishly looking for GIFs to combine for the prototype...

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

BTW, Heidi - if something like this comes up, my deposit check will
be in the mail :-)

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:50:49 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: GN

>
> Which year? They changed body styles. 86 was the regal and wasn't the
87 that boxy looking century style? > I just wanted to get a rough
idea.  Since this is supposedly a very fast car, I wanted to see if
weight was a contributing factor.

Chris
          All the GNs and GNXs were based on the G-body (Regal,
          Cutlass Supreme, Pontiac Grand Prix) through 1987.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:14:30 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Olds Fuel Injection

A closed loop system must have an O2 sensor or some type of exhaust
sampling sensor.

Open-loop or closed-loop can mean either the system type or the
operating mode.  All fuel injected systems today run in open loop when
cold, and then closed loop when warm or hot, but only during cruise or
part throttle. Since most drivers are at or near WOT most of the time
in metro areas, how is EFI reducing any pollution?  [ jumping off the
soapbox ]

I'm not sure about late 70's, early 80's FI being open loop only.  GM's
electro-mechanical carbs used open and closed loop operation.

Some of Holley's TBI systems are open loop all the time.  I've heard
these, and their analog units, are really hard to tune for
driveability.  The digital units are all closed loop, I beleive.

BG Fuel Systems came out with a VFI (venturi) a while back.  Based on a
double pumper, essentially a TBI unit.  Anyone hear anything more than
the CC article?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
I've heard of open-loop and closed-loop systems.  The difference has
something to do with the O2 sensor I think.  Anybody know the difference
 between these two types??

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:57:39 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: The EGR system on 403's- Info

>I checked my '78 Chassis Manual last night.  You probably have the
>backpressure EGR.  Externally, the shank part of the valve makes a turn
 >instead of being straight.  And internally different - hollow stem,
etc.

Hmm, no turn in the shank, and the rod seems too small to be hollow;
maybe the wrong EGR valve? This is on a Buick application, so it may
differ from those installed in the Oldses. - ----------- Ah, the non
back pressure EGR.  You could always get one out of a parts yard, cheap
to experiement.


>The spec calls for the valve to stay closed until 2" vacuum is applied.
It >is fully open at 8.5" vacuum.  Vacuum source is ported vacuum.

Hmmm, where'd you get the spec?
- ------------
Please see first paragraph!  The ported vacuum source is just above the
right-most idle adjustment screw, and parallel to the fuel inlet filter
body. This is facing the carb from the front bumper.

[snip]
<snip>
- -----------
Thanks for the info!  About the secondaries kicking in, I believe mine
kicked in almost immediately when I romped on the go pedal last night to
pass el slow mover.  Good luck.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:23:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 1988 Custom Cruiser axle ratio

>I don't have the manual to decode this rear end, but I understand that
in >1987, Custom Cruisers came with the 2.73 ratio.  In 1988, 2.93 was
used to

Was this ratio used in '86?  My step father has a limited slip diff and
a 200-4R trans that I'd love to swap into my '72 Cutlass Cruiser.

Roger Borlase
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html

------------------------------

From: Email <oldstoro@share1.dsac.dla.mil>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:36:01 -0300
Subject: Olds for sale

	1962 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88
	2 door ht white over blue
	394 V8
	Clean/Sharp looking car. Didn't see a price.
	Did see an appraisal letter done in 1994 with a value of $7500.

	(614) 471-7008 (Central Ohio)
- --
  |
 ---
| | |     TORO			TORO			TORO
| | | Ray Ford, Columbus Ohio, OCA Number 026719, oldstoro@dsac.dla.mil
 |/|\| 1992 Toronado Trofeo, Ah to TORO or not to TORO that is not the
question | | |
 ---
  |

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:59:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

>
>> It should have the Aurora, or even the Northstar, since it's bigger,
and Olds made that one for Caddy, anyway. > >LOL, Charlie... love your
revisionist history!  This must be more of >that sour grapes stuff, I
guess  :) > Actually the Northstar ~was~ an Olds engine.  They are
virtually identical. The Aurora is a 3.4L (I think, right?) and the
Northstar is 4.0L. if I remember correctly.  Caddilac went to Olds to
design their new flagship motor.  I've been inside both of them, and
I've got pictures of the original Northstar prototype on my web page.
It is involved in an all out blow up contest.  It was nothing short of
amazing, that thing ran forever!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:28:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

> >LOL, Charlie... love your revisionist history!  This must be more of
> >that sour grapes stuff, I guess  :)
> >
> Actually the Northstar ~was~ an Olds engine.  They are virtually
identical. > The Aurora is a 3.4L (I think, right?) and the Northstar is
4.0L. if I > remember correctly.  Caddilac went to Olds to design their
new flagship > motor.  I've been inside both of them, and I've got
pictures of the original > Northstar prototype on my web page.  It is
involved in an all out blow up > contest.  It was nothing short of
amazing, that thing ran forever!

I stand corrected Charley... I'd always been under the impression Caddy
designed it, *then* Olds re-engineered it for the Aurora.  Thanks for
the info!

And it's no longer just their 'flagship engine, *all* Caddys (save that
new weird Opel Caddy) have the Northstar now...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: jev114@email.psu.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:21:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

open loop refers to the way your computer reads it's data...more
precisely open loop means the computer is taking in data from the
computer as your car is running.

closed loop means your car is running on hard coded data in the
computer. it sends data stored in tables of the computer to all it's
little sensors.

I'm pretty sure that production cars these days use both methods they
run closed loop for the first 3 min or so then swithch to the open loop
mode

hope that helps
Jeff

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 20:36:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Fuel Injection

jev114@email.psu.edu wrote:
>
> more precisely open loop means the computer is taking in data from the
 > computer as your car is running. > > closed loop means your car is
running on hard coded data in the > computer.

That may be but this usage of these terms is counter to my experence.

A closed loop system is one that reads sensors, calculates corrections,
puts corrections into operation, then re-reads its sensors.  This is,
the loop is circular -- no beginning, no end.

An open loop (oxy?) would read data from a history table and use that as
 a basis for corrections.  The "loop" start with the table and end with
 the correction.  That is, it DOES have a beginning and an end -- the
loop is NOT closed.

Eh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 07:48:36 -0300
Subject: Bench Racing

              Everyone talking about turbos, superchargers, and EFI got
me thinking.  A little ingenuity, a  `72 Cutlass, and about $8 grand
could make one *really* cool rocket.
              Just get a `72 stock 455, 8:1 compression, beef the bottom
end, give it a mild cam, and plumb in two Buick GN superchargers.
Fabricate a nice water-to-air intercooler from two rice-burner radiators
and some sheet aluminum to keep the air going in cool.  Back it up with
one of thoes Borg-Warner 6-speeds (3.0 first, .62 overdrive) and a 4.11
detroit locker rearend.  Stuff it all into the Cutlass, allthough the
fender wells would probably have to go to make room.  Run 3 inch pipes
out the turbos through the worst excuse for mufflers you can find.
              The combo oughta make 500 hp without trying and idle just
like stock.  You could even run cheap gas if you stay out of the turbo.

              You could build up a BB and make more HP without the
turbos, but it'd be more fun to be unique.  All I need now is about 10
grand and a few years worth of free weekends.

              Just daydreaming on the list.
              Greg Pruett
              `72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:34:16 -0300
Subject: Basket cases:'68 Cutlass Convert/'68 coupe for Sale

I am  finding it difficult to continue with my current project, due to
job/grad school considerations, as well as the extent of work required
to complete.

I have a '68 Cutlass convertible.  It has a straight but rusty body,
needing both quarter panels, a trunk lid, and probably one wheelhouse.
As I opened it up, there was just more rust than I had planned on.  I
have blasted and cut out the rust, but the body panel repairs remain,and
ssadly, my body-man buddy has been transferred, and I am really not in a
position of completing it in the near future.  I also have a '68 coupe
for parts.

The convertible shell is stripped of everything, has been sand blasted
inside and underneath, and all sandblasted surfaces have been refinished
with black DP-90 epoxy.  I have installed new full-length floor boards.
The trunk is solid.  It is currently off the frame, but can be re-seated
quickly.  I have sandblasted the frame, installed a Kanter OEM
bushing/ball joint kit, and finished it in DP-90 epoxy.  The next step
was brakes, but I stopped short of that while I worked on the body
problems.

I have a 1971 Olds 350 (4  bbl manifold, no carb), as well as a
rebuildable Jetaway, and a TH-350.  One of the cars has a 305 (runs) as
well.  Both cars are rigged for A/C.

There is basically two of everthing else, but the bumpers are rough or
rusty, one set of non-original buckets are pretty good, most of the
chrome trim is great, top is shot.  Wheels are new type SSII
look-a-likes, sandblasted, DP-90'd,  and repainted.

For someone who is pretty handy with a MIG, this could be a nice
project.

I really need to find a car that requires more mechanical restoration
and less body work.

Transportation is on you, as I have no trailer facilities.

At this point I'm looking for the best reasonable offer.  If no body
shows, I'll probably start parting it out.

Thanks,

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee, FL    Ph.: 904-671-1809

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:25:25 -0300
Subject: Frame swap on a 67 442

  I'm in the process of swapping the frame on my 67' 442.
Does anyonw have any tips on getting the body mount bolts out?
2 came out fine, 2 broke, and 2 have rounded bolt heads, and 2 are
spinning up in the body.

Ken
rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:39:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Heidi Help!  (was- Say It Isn't So!)

 I'd always been under the impression Caddy
>designed it, *then* Olds re-engineered it for the Aurora.  Thanks for
>the info!

     What's really interesting is that around 1970 Olds made the OW-43,
a DOHC Multicarbed 455, aluminum block & heads, 4 valves/hemi heads.
Pegged Oldsmobile's dyno, in excess of 700 HP!  Speed limit of
8500RPM,peak power estimated to be around 7600 rpm.  "Reliable sources
claimed that the OW-43 assembly actually fit into a production
Toronado."
     I think Bryce's links to the REOlds museum has a few pics of this
beast.  The really interesting comparison is to look at this engine,
then at an Aurora/Northstar.  I've got this feeling the OW-43 ~finally~
made it to prodution, twenty-some years after it's design.  Now if we
could just get it back up to 455 cubic inches, ~and then~ stuff it into
our F-body 442...  :}

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #338
******************************** 
