To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/04/96 12:23:08 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #320


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 4 October 1996       Volume 01 : Number 320


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:21:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

> Maybe it is the buckles too. On my '68 which I assume has standard belts
> - they are black, but so is the interior, so who knows - the buckles are
> big, clunky black plastic or bakelite things with a blue GM logo for the
> pushbutton release.

Greg,

FWIW, my '68 442 has, like yours, black interior, black belts as you described

above.

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:34:56 -0300 
Subject: RE: 455 Headers

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)

>  As I recall the factory dual exh. manis are
>2.5" outlet, so putting a 3" system behind that might be cost ineffective.

2.5" is for W-30 _and_ 442 manifolds?

>(I have a 2.5" pipes and 2.25" tail pipes with stock
>trumpets and Sonic Turbo (ugh) mufflers.  A set of 15" Flowmasters are on
>the way, and so are 2.5" tailpipes.  I'll have to have my trumpets remade to
>take the bigger tailpipes, but it'll be worth it.)

This is a good question.  I assume the stock trumpets are 2.25".  Is there
any aftermarket place making 2.5" trumptes or will you have to have
custom fabricated ones made?  The latter sounds very expensive.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:33:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

> > Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...
>
> Hear Sparky's burnout at the Toro site.

And the URL is... ?

>
> The 66 Toro and Mike

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:26:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

>In responding to all the earlier messages, I of course blew it.

Of course.  ;-)

Okay, Junior and I went for a cruise last night to doublecheck the
directions, and scout out both the Fuddruckers location and the 
Russell's Barbecue place we'd been discussing yesterday.

Russell's Barbecue looks like a nice place, though the parking lot is
a bit smaller than I'd hoped for -- any unexpected Sunday afternoon
crowd would probably swamp the good spots -- and for background when
taking photos, which I plan to do, it's hard to use the restaurant
itself as a backdrop, which would be nice, since the handicapped parking
spaces are all along that side, and the other side of the lot backs on
to a Denny's, which is not exactly photogenic, so, and I am going to get
to the end of this sentence if it kills me, I think the Fuddruckers is
the better choice even though I'd like to eat at Russell's sometime.

*gasp*  inhale...

Fuddruckers has a good modern lot which wraps just about all around the
building, with some nice benign landscaping around it as a backdrop:
grass, trees, that sort of thing. Brett's directions are right on the
money; here's my version, based on what I saw last night, so take your
pick:

When heading west on Golf to get there (about two miles west of 53),
major traffic lights going west from 53 will be Meacham, then Plum Grove,
with minor lights in between. Turn right (north into the lot) at the
next light immediately west of Plum Grove; there is a huge blue Silo
sign on the corner. Barnes & Noble sits on the northwest corner opposite
the Silo sign, and blocks your view of the Fuddruckers beyond it. Go up
the drive and take the first left, leading around Barnes & Noble, and
continue on down to Fuddruckers. Just for the sake of picking a side,
let's say that we'll try and park along the south side of the lot, so
we back onto Golf Rd.

>So, ok, I will aim for the 3 pm meeting at Schaumburg Fuddruckers and 
>will look for Oldsmobiles

Okay...

>and Andy's Pontiac in the parking lot.

Well, the less said about that, the better.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:55:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like?

Darren Shroeger wrote:
> 
> > Hear Sparky's burnout at the Toro site.
> 
> And the URL is... ?

Whoops: http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/torolist.html

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:48:46 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

>Yep, you read it correctly.  The dash is solid with no vent openings
>whatsoever.

Our non-A/C '69 Pontiac wagon was the same way: a big blank area at
top center. I used this to my advantage when putting gauges in, though.
Although the padded vinyl dash was seamlessly blank in that area, the
metal frame in back had the big rectangular punchout for the center
A/C vent. So, instead of having to hang the typical three-2"-gauges
setup under the dash, I just used a sharp knife to slice three circles
of the right size right into the padded vinyl, and the gauges snuggled
right in. Piece of cake, and looked _great_.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:07:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Kudos for Doug Ahern 

> I note with interest that our Mr. Ahern earned a mention in this month's
> Car & Driver for his "Virtual Junkyard" web site...

And the URL is... ?!?

now we have to get
> Bryceman's page mentioned there!!

HEar, hear!

> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:09:28 -0300
Subject: 307 H.P.

I have a 1987 Olds 442.  I have not put a chip in it yet, but I did advance 
base
tiing 4 degrees.  At the dragstrip, advancing base timing 10 degrees brought 
1/4
mile time down by 0.3 seconds.  I had to set it back because idle quality and
part throttle became a problem.  This shows that WOT timing is to retarded.  I
am trying to find a chip that covers that.  
     Also, Greg's response about the air cleaners is good, except that the 442s
and Hurts Olds' don't have enough hood clearance.  However, your car should 
have
a dual snorkel air cleaner.  One on drivers side which is the standard GM
snorkel, and a real big one on the passenger side with a vacuum actuated damper
to allow warm air intake to work on main snorkel.  Second one is for WOT only.
Since this just opens into engine compartment, buy some 4" air intake hose 
(like
dryer duct but black - JC Whitney has it) and rout it to either the right front
fender are below charcoal canister or behind grill.  This will allow cooler air
intake at WOT.  That change alone brought 1/4 mile time down approx 0.2 
seconds.
My car is now running 16.22 @ 82.4 MPH (was 16.7 @ 80.5MPH when new).
Everything else is completely stock.  Also, factory exhaust on mid 80's 442s 
are
fairly free flowing.  The mufflers are actually called resonators in the 
service
manual and parts book.  They are very small and do not seem to cause much
backpressure.  I will be very interested to hear from anyone who has made an
exhaust change on these vehicles.  The factory aluminized exhaust system (which
should last 7 to 10 years) is available from the dealer complete for apporx.
$280. I just purchased one for mine which is still original after 10 years and
60,000 miles.   Steve 

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:20:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile dics brakes 

> What if any difference is there between 69' Cutlass front disc brake
> spindles, rotors, calipers and a 70 Olds set-up? In otherwords, I have a
> chance to get a 69' front disc set-up and want to know if they'll fit my
> 70'.
>
> Dave Holgate
> (holgate@juno.com)

Dave,

If memory serves, I thought the 68-69's had four-piston calipers...
Different than '70, which I believe is single-caliper (?).

So maybe they could work, but they wouldn't be *correct.*
But my '68 sure would love discs if you don't use em! ;^)

One other consideration is that the 4-caliper pads are murderously
hard to find and expensive, too.

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:22:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Kudos for Doug Ahern

Darren Shroeger wrote:
> 
> now we have to get Bryceman's page mentioned there!!

It is.  Top of the list under Links.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:25 -0300
Subject: who oldsmobile 



------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:52:42 -0300
Subject: Color for Tiny and FRP digest for Lisa

Lisa - you should have a summary of the FRP discussion by the time this
arrives.  If anybody else wants a copy, I've still got it.

> By the way - did you ever pick a new color for Tiny?  I have Tiny's 
> cousin - the '67 Delta 88 but I'm terrifically fond of her Cameo 
> Ivory (thats why the V-C is that shade too).

Well, I've got a collection of suggestions going.  Art Fuller
suggested I take Tiny up to the next OCA chapter meeting (need to
find out when that is) and they could make a contest out of it.
That might just be how it gets decided.  I'm still a few months away
from paint (finiancially).  Besides the few week has been PERFECT 
convvertible weather.  I'd be kicking myself in the rear if the car
were in the shop right now.

Here's a list of all the current suggestions - 
(for reference, Tiny has a black interior and top, and is currently
painted dark red / maroon.  Original factory color was white)
 medium to navy blue
 target red
 deep rich black
  - with a white pinstripe
 dark green
  - solid
  - metalic
 dark almost black red/plumish color
 metallic silver
  - with a tinge of blue
 light metallic blue (almost silvery)
 darker charcoal grey metallic
 silver
 silver like the "Youngmobile" ads from National Geographic
 battleship grey
 saffron yellow
 cameo ivory
 white

I also have some anti-suggestions:
 greens don't look good on big cars, especially light greens
 black is hard to make look good
 silver is hard to clean (from a detailer's point of view)
 silver/metallics ar hard to match if need to repaint parts later
 white shows dirt
 red is more prone to sun fade than other colors
 pink looks like a pimpmobile
 yellow looks like a banana
 neons and other "new" colors only look good on small cars
 neons and other "new" colors ruin the "classic" look


Please feel free to add your thoughts to the list.

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:06:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Esko's ignition switch

> You mean now you want us to ship _Travis_ over there? Well, OK, but
> his shipping weight is going to be a problem, plus if you break him,
> we're going to have a major problem getting parts for him.

No, not another week in the box, no!  :) 
Can I at least have some air holes this time?

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:02:03 -0300
Subject: Re: FRP - clarification

> > there are two different types of FRP available.
> >
> > One type uses fiberglass tape with some kind of resin in between. 
> > (not sandwiched)
> >
> > The other type is some kind of chemical putty similar to bondo 
> > that you just slop in place without any glass tape.
>
> ... resins mixed with some type of filler material, usually a powder.  
> But no fiberglass cloth.
> 
> FRP is Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic.  No fiberglass -- no FRP.
>
> Mud?

Definitely close to mud.  So I guess the second type that doesn't
use the fiberglass "tape" isn't really FRP.  Is it just P (plastic)
or ??? 

Is it clear yet that I really don't know what I'm talking about? :)


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:09:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question 

>> Deluxe and worth that and much and more! Even has a factory installed block
heater!!! A
> perfect winter car!!!! Nice gut too!
>
> Rusty but trusty!!!!
>
> I have pictures, I can scan and email to you if you are interested.

Sparky,

You oughtta scan & email the photos to Bryce for th' owners reg. on the site!
Not that it's intended to be a buy & sell, but 'twould allow prospective
purchasers to see just how rusty/trusty she is!

 

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:58:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Color for Tiny and FRP digest for Lisa 

>I also have some anti-suggestions:
> greens don't look good on big cars, especially light greens
> black is hard to make look good
> silver is hard to clean (from a detailer's point of view)
> silver/metallics ar hard to match if need to repaint parts later
> white shows dirt
> red is more prone to sun fade than other colors
> pink looks like a pimpmobile
> yellow looks like a banana
> neons and other "new" colors only look good on small cars
> neons and other "new" colors ruin the "classic" look

You have two kinds of anti-suggestions there, I see. Whether or not
it looks like a banana is a matter of opinion (if _you_ like it, fine),
but I'd give more weight to comments about difficulty in cleaning, fading
or paint matching. Those have a kind of been-there-done-that experience
that suggests you might not want to wind up with the same problems...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:18:08 -0300 
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

> 3:00 p.m. at Schaumburg Fuddruckers? Agree or
>disagree? (And are we having email problems today, or is the net
>just unusually quiet?)

3:00pm this Sunday at the Schaumburg Fuddruckers is okay with me.
As cold as it is now, maybe it will warm up enough by 3:00 so I can
shift my trans easily :-)

Note I'm on the digest so if things have changed again, somebody
send me a direct email.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442 4-Speed (with 1970 vintage stiff gear lube :-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:22:31 -0300
Subject: Re: FRP - clarification

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> So I guess the second type that doesn't use the fiberglass "tape" 
> isn't really FRP.  Is it just P (plastic) or ???

Yup.  It's filler or putty or ???.  No fiber - no FRP.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:26:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Color for Tiny and FRP digest for Lisa 

Travis,

FWIW, My 68 442 is Teal Blue, which is a kind of steely gray-blue.
Very 60's Muscly-looking, if that's what you are trying to portray.

Have you went down to the paint store and poured over the original
Olds paint chips?

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:22:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting

>3:00pm this Sunday at the Schaumburg Fuddruckers is okay with me.
>As cold as it is now, maybe it will warm up enough by 3:00 so I can
>shift my trans easily :-)

Actually the predictions I heard this morning are now for a high of
74, but more chance of rain in the morning than they'd said before.

>Note I'm on the digest so if things have changed again, somebody
>send me a direct email.

Done...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Toro Question 

     I came reeeeeal close to buying a '77 toro last weekend for a winter 
     car.  $250, I could probably talk him down to $200.  Cosmetically it 
     was a beater, but the engine (SB olds, didn't look enough to tell if 
     it's a 350 or 403) ran great.  This was at a discount "cash talks" 
     used car dealer that specializes in beaters.  Also had a '63 Corvair 
     for $29 (yes twenty-nine) dollars.  What was left of the car 
     kinda-sorta-almost runs barely.
     
     I decided that I wanted a Pentium more, and that realistically I 
     didn't have a parking space for another big car, sorry guys.  Just 
     wanted you to know that the deals are out there.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Toro Question
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/3/96 7:09 AM


Why not one of the 70s?  I be the first to agree that they don't have the 
same sheet-metal appeal but it's much the same car underneath.  I see 
them in the paper here for $800-1000 quite often.

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:18:00 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 Headers

Jeff,
The dimensions of the manis are (I think) in the FAQ's on Bryceman's page. 
 I seem to recall reading that stock exhaust pipes are 2.25 with 2.0 
tailpipes.  I have the stock trumpets on my car.  I hope there are bigger 
(2.5") available, but I doubt it.  I can MIG the 2.5 pipes to the trumpet 
portion of the stock ones.  Won't look exactly stock, but the $$$$ spent on 
rechroming will probably be worth it.  Should last for many years.
Scott Mullen
'70 442
 ----------
From: Jeffrey.Easton
To: mullenrs;         -         (052)oldsmobile(a)ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: RE: 455 Headers
Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 11:12AM


From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)

>  As I recall the factory dual exh. manis are
>2.5" outlet, so putting a 3" system behind that might be cost ineffective.

2.5" is for W-30 _and_ 442 manifolds?

>(I have a 2.5" pipes and 2.25" tail pipes with stock
>trumpets and Sonic Turbo (ugh) mufflers.  A set of 15" Flowmasters are on
>the way, and so are 2.5" tailpipes.  I'll have to have my trumpets remade 
to
>take the bigger tailpipes, but it'll be worth it.)

This is a good question.  I assume the stock trumpets are 2.25".  Is there
any aftermarket place making 2.5" trumptes or will you have to have
custom fabricated ones made?  The latter sounds very expensive.

 -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Rick Kromeich <rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:28:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting

South side of Fuddruckers lot, 3:00p.m. this Sunday sounds like the plan.
I will try and be there as it sounds like it will be fun. 

- -Rick
rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com
____________________________________________________
> 
> From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
> 
> > 3:00 p.m. at Schaumburg Fuddruckers? Agree or
> >disagree? (And are we having email problems today, or is the net
> >just unusually quiet?)
> 
> 3:00pm this Sunday at the Schaumburg Fuddruckers is okay with me.
> As cold as it is now, maybe it will warm up enough by 3:00 so I can
> shift my trans easily :-)
> 
> Note I'm on the digest so if things have changed again, somebody
> send me a direct email.
> 
> -Jeff
> jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
> 1970 442 4-Speed (with 1970 vintage stiff gear lube :-)
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:23:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Color for Tiny and FRP digest for Lisa 

>Lisa - you should have a summary of the FRP discussion by the time this
>arrives.  If anybody else wants a copy, I've still got it.
>
>> By the way - did you ever pick a new color for Tiny?  I have Tiny's 
>> cousin - the '67 Delta 88 but I'm terrifically fond of her Cameo 
>> Ivory (thats why the V-C is that shade too).
>
>Well, I've got a collection of suggestions going.  Art Fuller
>suggested I take Tiny up to the next OCA chapter meeting (need to
>find out when that is) and they could make a contest out of it.
>That might just be how it gets decided.  I'm still a few months away
>from paint (finiancially).  Besides the few week has been PERFECT 
>convvertible weather.  I'd be kicking myself in the rear if the car
>were in the shop right now.
>
>Here's a list of all the current suggestions - 
>(for reference, Tiny has a black interior and top, and is currently
>painted dark red / maroon.  Original factory color was white)
> medium to navy blue
> target red
> deep rich black
>  - with a white pinstripe
> dark green
>  - solid
>  - metalic
> dark almost black red/plumish color
> metallic silver
>  - with a tinge of blue
> light metallic blue (almost silvery)
> darker charcoal grey metallic
> silver
> silver like the "Youngmobile" ads from National Geographic
> battleship grey
> saffron yellow
> cameo ivory
> white
>
>I also have some anti-suggestions:
> greens don't look good on big cars, especially light greens
> black is hard to make look good
> silver is hard to clean (from a detailer's point of view)
> silver/metallics ar hard to match if need to repaint parts later
> white shows dirt
> red is more prone to sun fade than other colors
> pink looks like a pimpmobile
> yellow looks like a banana
> neons and other "new" colors only look good on small cars
> neons and other "new" colors ruin the "classic" look
>
>
>Please feel free to add your thoughts to the list.
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
>tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation
>Travis whatever color you go with make sure it is a color that was avalible
in 69 on that car...I have seen large gm cars done in non factory (or colors
of that era and they did not look right... I recomend the safron yellow or
they had a lt metalic purple that I have seen on a few Toronados that looks
good...Or the metalic gold would look good. 
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: "D. L. Kiffer" <dkiffer@cs.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:23:14 -0300
Subject: 96 Olds LSS

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BBB12E.08086340
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,
	I don't know if you cover recent cars, however I have a 96 LSS with
terrible torque steer to the right.  The car will not go in a straight
line.  My dealer and regional manager have explained to me the alignment is
correct and that this is a "normal characteristic of a front wheel drive
car."
	I've owned more front wheel drives than I can recall, however this is 
the
first one that runs off the right side of the road, particularly under
acceleration.  I am not satisfied with Olds answers so far, and wondered if
anyone else has reported this problem?
	In your opinion, is this a "normal characteristic" of a new front wheel
drive car?
Thank you, Semper Fi, Dave
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BBB12E.08086340
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Hi,<br>&#009;I don't know if you cover =
recent cars, however I have a 96 LSS with terrible torque steer to the =
right. &nbsp;The car will not go in a straight line. &nbsp;My dealer and =
regional manager have explained to me the alignment is correct and that =
this is a &quot;normal characteristic of a front wheel drive =
car.&quot;<br>&#009;I've owned more front wheel drives than I can =
recall, however this is the first one that runs off the right side of =
the road, particularly under acceleration. &nbsp;I am not satisfied with =
Olds answers so far, and wondered if anyone else has reported this =
problem?<br>&#009;In your opinion, is this a &quot;normal =
characteristic&quot; of a new front wheel drive car?<br>Thank you, =
Semper Fi, Dave</p>
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From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile dics brakes

On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Darren Shroeger wrote:

> If memory serves, I thought the 68-69's had four-piston calipers...
> Different than '70, which I believe is single-caliper (?).
> So maybe they could work, but they wouldn't be *correct.*
> But my '68 sure would love discs if you don't use em! ;^)
> One other consideration is that the 4-caliper pads are murderously
> hard to find and expensive, too.

Pretty sure that *68* was the last year for the old 4-piston style discs; 
and that the modern single piston design was introduced in '69 and 
carried forward from there. Would love a set myself!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:21:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile dics brakes

> If memory serves, I thought the 68-69's had four-piston calipers...
> Different than '70, which I believe is single-caliper (?).

> One other consideration is that the 4-caliper pads are murderously
> hard to find and expensive, too.

   Mopar used the same 4-piston setup in the late 60's.   Yes, it can be 
made to work but not just the pads are hard to find.  Practically ANY 
part for that system is hard to get.

   The general concensus I've heard is to avoid 4-piston like the plague.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:30:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Kudos for Doug Ahern

On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Darren Shroeger wrote:
> > (actually it was Greg)
> > now we have to get Bryceman's page mentioned there!!
> 
> It is.  Top of the list under Links.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Mikey, m'boy, open those headlight covers! I was referring to a mention 
of the Brycemans page in Car & Driver, just like they did for Doug's page!

:)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
<a.k.a. Mr. "fractured syntax spoken here">

------------------------------

From: David L Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:27:56 -0300
Subject: Re:  JB Weld

For what it's worth. We run JB Weld in the intake and exhaust ports of our Jr. 
Dragster. The engine is a modified 5 hp Briggs. We use the JB Weld to make a 
ramp in the floor of the ports for better flow. After a full season of racing
the exhaust port shows a tiny amount of wear on the JB Weld. It looks like the
spent gasses have cut a small (1/16") grove in it. This engine turns 8000 rpm 
through the lights on methanol. I am now a believer in the strength of JB 
Weld. 
I do have concerns about it's use in a block or head when trying to keep 
coolant 
in. The expansion and contraction of the metal might be a problem.
 
Dave Wyatt 704-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:30:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 96 Olds LSS 

>	I don't know if you cover recent cars, however I have a 96 LSS with
>terrible torque steer to the right.  The car will not go in a straight
>line.

If it can't even _coast_ in a straight line, there is a problem. I'd
check that the tire pressures are all even, and try swapping the tires
front-for-back on each side. Less likely possibilities might include a
bad motor mount allowing the transxle to shift under acceleration...?

>My dealer and regional manager have explained to me the alignment is
>correct

...if they measured it, perhaps this much is true...

>and that this is a "normal characteristic of a front wheel drive
>car."

No it isn't. Given that it's a '96, it should be easy for you to try
another example to see if it behaves the same way. I assume it won't.
And although you've gone to the regional level already, you might try
another Olds dealer's service department to see if you can find a
sharper mechanic who can pin down the problem.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:41:39 -0300
Subject: Olds Contact List

I dunno if its just me - I know some of you have gotten there already so 
I know its not everybody either - but I am having a devil of a time 
getting to the Olds Contact list.

I want to say that this is in no way a flame of Calvin and his efforts to 
date. But I have had some pretty consistent problems with his pages.

I tried one day last week at home and got several DNS error messages in
Netscape. Toady I tried using a connection here in the office that goes
thru an entirely different routing scheme and got the same error several
times. I finally got to the site by just going to the main Tripod home
page, looking around there for a while until I got it to direct me to the
members page. By using the link they provided I was able to open the
contact list form. Had some questions - i.e. was it last name first, first
name last, etc. - so decided to see what format the list itself was in.
That page was completely inaccessible using the address given earlier.
Tried everything, no luck. By that time I was slightly pi**ed off by the
whole thing so I gave up having wasted about 15 minutes in total. 

Does anyone have similar problems? I really don't want to hear a bunch of 
"not me" answers since i know some of you can get there fine. But I'm 
curious if others are having problems reaching the address like I have had.

The addresses:
http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html
(the one that eventually worked after lots of grief)
http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/links/main.html
(no go whatsoever)

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:31:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Kudos for Doug Ahern 

>Mikey, m'boy, open those headlight covers! I was referring to a mention 
>of the Brycemans page in Car & Driver, just like they did for Doug's page!

Plus, you guys, I could have sworn that _I_ was the first one to spot
Doug's mention, at least two weeks ago!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:38:00 -0300
Subject: [none]

 What if any difference is there between 69' Cutlass front disc brake
> spindles, rotors, calipers and a 70 Olds set-up? In otherwords, I have a
> chance to get a 69' front disc set-up and want to know if they'll fit my
> 70'.
>
> Dave Holgate
> (holgate@juno.com)
 Dave,
There is no difference.  68-72 GM A bodies disc brake knuckles , calipers, 
rotors are the same.  I put the set up from a '72 Monte Carlo (also an 
A-body?) on my 69 Cutlass coupe and it worked fine.  All I bought new was 
the master cylinder (get the one for your year car w/ disc brakes).  If you 
are considering the change from front drums, I highly recommend the "Knuckle 
Sandwich" set-up that was in Hot Rod magazine a few years back.

By ordering a kit from H/O Racing (ball joints and outer tie rods) you can 
adapt '80's GM big car knuckles to an A-body.  This enables you to use 12" 
rotors ( with same calipers as original 11" disc setup).  I did this to my 
'70 442.  I now use 12" rotors from the early 90's Camaro with 1LE brake 
option (12" rotors, same bolt pattern).  15" wheels are mandatory with this 
mod.  The knuckles were from a Olds wagon (mid '80's)  The knuckles are alot 
taller, which lowers the roll center of the car dramatically and REALLY 
improves the handling.  You also get the BIG  wheel bearings used from GM 
big cars, which are vastly superioir from a wear/strength standpoint.  The 
1LE rotors are really meaty, and my days of two-footing the brake pedal on 
twisty roads are over.  After opening the hood several times for alot of 
different motor heads, only one guy spotted the fact that the upper control 
arms run at more of an upward angle than stock.  That was because he had 
done the same mod to his '72 W30.  I bet most car show judges would miss 
that

This is a great mod to make.  Let me know if you want more info or the part 
#'s, and I'll dig in my files.  I will be adding 12" Wilwood discs with 
4-piston calipers this winter (from the Summit catalog).    Then I will have 
4-wheel 12" disc brakes.  Stopping fast is more important than acceleration 
for a street driven car that gets flogged like a rented mule!!!

Scott Mullen
'70 442
Drive it like you hate it, maintain it like your life depended on it! 

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:06:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Kudos for Doug Ahern

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Mikey, m'boy, open those headlight covers! I was referring to a mention
> of the Brycemans page in Car & Driver...

Ohhh....   Never mind.....

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:11:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Contact List

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> The addresses:
> http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html
> (the one that eventually worked after lots of grief)
> http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/links/main.html
> (no go whatsoever)

Got a DNS on both of these just now.  They must be DOA...

The old one still works:
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:15:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Contact List 

>> The addresses:
>> http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html
>> (the one that eventually worked after lots of grief)
>> http://www.members.tripod.com/~rovernut/links/main.html
>> (no go whatsoever)
>
>Got a DNS on both of these just now.  They must be DOA...

No, it's just a case of punctuation pickiness, horseshoes and
hand-grenades, that sort of thing: get rid of the "www." prefix and
the first one above will work. The second I assume was someone's
wild guess and doesn't seem to be there. Anyway:

http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:26:01 -0300
Subject: Re: 1972 )Olds 442 Convertible 

If you havn't been there yet, your first stop should be http://www.442.com
You will find a lot of good info there as well as the FAQ for this list.


At 08:46 PM 10/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I am in the process of restoring my 442 that I purchased in Memphis, TN in
>1977.
>Dragged (no, not drag raced) all over the US and presently located in Las
>Vegas, NV
>looking for resources to do a professional restoration aproximating OEM
>specs.
>Looking for all and any input.
>Sincerly,
>Hkuntze@concentric.com
>
>
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        


                                    

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:46:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Dallas/Ft. Worth

There are a lot of Cutlass owners around Dallas-Ft. Worth. I live in 
Kennedale, 
have a 70 442 4 speed convt., with 35,000 original miles on it. I don't drive 
it 
on 360 because it won't go fast enough to keep up with the traffic.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:46:58 -0300
Subject: Re: W/Z dual exhaust manifolds? 

 
W and Z are the raised letters found, one on each, manifold for 442s.  Forget 
which one is on 
which side, but I think it is W on driver's man, Z on pass side. 
 
   
>A man mentioned the W/Z dual exhaust manifolds on 455 motors.  What are  
>these and how can you tell if you have them? 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442 
 
  

------------------------------

From: Mark Gray <Frog@pe.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:55:00 -0300
Subject: 59' Oldsmobile 88 series 4 door

I have an 88 series oldsmobile. I was trying to get any and all the
information about this car. I was really looking for pictures for a
little inspiration on how this car should look when it is a fixed up. If
you have any information or images send them to (Frog@pe.net) my name is
Mark Gray.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:06:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Headers VS Manifolds 

In a message dated 96-10-03 12:45:57 EDT, you write:

<< >  As I recall the factory dual exh. manis are
 >2.5" outlet, so putting a 3" system behind that might be cost ineffective.
  >>

Stock 442 and W-30 exhaust is 2 inch.  The inside diameter of the Trumpets
are 2 inch.  A 3 inch Exhausts is cost efficient, due to the fact that
horsepower
gain is outstanding.  I gained 4 tenths of a second so far going from 2.5 to
3 inch
exhaust and that is with a 12 second quarter mile car.  My advice is in this
case BIGGER IS BETTER.  So put on headers, buy the big exhaust and 
ROCK ON

W MACHINES experience through racing for 15 years   72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:08:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile dics brakes 

In a message dated 96-10-03 13:29:27 EDT, you write:

<<  If memory serves, I thought the 68-69's had four-piston calipers...
 > Different than '70, which I believe is single-caliper (?).
  >>
The spindels are the same but the calipers are a little different.  So buy
reman
calipers and the problem is solved.  68 was last year for 4 pison calipers,
but the 
spindel with bearing assembly is more important.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:12:50 -0300
Subject: RE: Q: 425/455 cams--TriPower?

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>>67 442 Convertible
>>425 w/ stock innards
>>tri power intake
>>4 speed close ratio manual trans
>>4.11 posi rearend
>>manual brakes
>>
     Is that a '67 tri-power, too?  Does that throw off all the data about
the tri power thread (as I understood it, they were only a '66 option, and
the older ones...)

    It's a 67 big car 425 w/ a 66 442 tri power setup.. 





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From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:20:04 -0300
Subject: My car was in Hawaii

Anybody out there live in Hawaii?  My car came from there & I need some help 
in 
tracking down its past.  Pls email me direct, dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

Thanks!

Doug Kitchener
Gaitherburg, MD

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:26:48 -0300
Subject: 77 specs. 

Could someone please tell me where I can find information about my 77 442-403.
I would like to know rear end ratio, hp, etc.

Jason

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:30:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question

Darren Shroeger wrote:

> Sparky,
> 
> You oughtta scan & email the photos to Bryce for th' owners reg. on the site!
> Not that it's intended to be a buy & sell, but 'twould allow prospective
> purchasers to see just how rusty/trusty she is!

Darren,

I'm really not aggressively trying to sell it. Besides, Bryce has my show car 
on the web 
site already:

http:://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html

If anyone is really that interested, its no problem to just send a .gif of it 
directly 
to them. I'd hate to clutter up a perfectly good web site with that rust 
bucket anyway!

But thanks for the idea anyway!  (:

Sparky

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:05:56 -0300 
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>

>Yep, you read it correctly.  The dash is solid with no vent openings
>whatsoever. Looks very plain compared to the grilled type that I have on
>mine.  In fact, the car doesn't even have the vents in the door jam area.  I
>forget the name that GM gave this ventilation system.  On cars with vents,
>the air is supposed to travel through the dash vents --> through the package
>tray --> into the trunk area --> back over the rear wheel wells towards the
>front of the car --> and exit through the door jam vents due to high
>pressure air going past the door on the outside.

Hmm.  My non-air car has the dash with the center block off plate,
lower kick panel vents (with those cool slide pulls that most young-uns
have never seen before :-) but as I recall, no door jamb vents.  The
rear shelf is solid cardboard too, no vent holes or speaker.
Maybe the air is supposed to exit thru the rust holes in the floorpan. :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:12:09 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile 442 

Does anyone have any inside info. on whether Oldsmobile will ever make another 
442 model Cutlass?


Jason Hairston

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:59:43 -0300
Subject: CrossMember

Hi again,

Anyone know if an older Cutlass crossmember was produced w/ double notches for 
exhaust which will swap into a 84 Cutlass??  and if this were to exist, what
a decent junkyard price would be in CA?

anthony

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:02:00 -0300
Subject: Head to Headers on Exhaust systems

On 10/2/96 @1730 you wrote:
>With Hookers, I don't need a screwdriver to remove my oil filter.  The
>headers are easy to install from underneath.  Yes they are a bit more 
noisy, but that
>is what a street car is supose to sound like.  I run 3 inch exhaust through
>Flowmasterswith 3 inch tailpipes.  I love it, I run 12.40's @ 108.63 mph 
with
>drivability and I love to hear the car rumble.  As for dipstick tubes, they 
are still >availible at dealerships and cost is cheap.  Now I just need to 
matchport my >headers togo faster and such.

On 10/3/96 @ 1637 you wrote:

>Stock 442 and W-30 exhaust is 2 inch.  The inside diameter of the Trumpets
>are 2 inch.  A 3 inch Exhausts is cost efficient, due to the fact that
>horsepower gain is outstanding.  I gained 4 tenths of a second so far going 
from 2.5 >to 3 inch exhaust and that is with a 12 second quarter mile car. 
 My advice is in this
>case BIGGER IS BETTER.  So put on headers, buy the big exhaust and
>ROCK ON

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30 Race Rocket

Glad to hear you'll be match porting on the exhaust side!  Also glad to hear 
that someone with more years experience missed that too.   The outlets on 
the stock W/Z manifolds are 2.5".  Thus, a straight through 2.5" exhaust 
system will be a good choice for the typical owner.   Stock '70 442 exhaust 
is 2.25" pipes, 2.0" tailipipes.

I think my original thread in replying to the header question has been lost. 
 My point was this:  headers must be a part of a systematic approach to 
modifying the car.  Based on the needs of the user, the headers may be 
appropriate.  Based on your performance claims, your car has more 
modification than headers and 3" exhaust.  Also, the "simple" addition of 
the headers/3" pipes is not the only thing that needs to be done for the 
average 442.  Extensive experimentation in rejetting of the carb needs to be 
done to account for the dramatic increase in system efficiency when a "no 
holds barred" system like yours is added.

Some of the less experienced readers of this page might think that merely 
bolting on the exhaust system you describe to their stock 442 will knock 
4/10 's off their ET.  Unless the carb has been running REALLY REALLY rich, 
 I don't think they'll gain 0.4 sec..  I related the story of my airborne 
'69 Cutlass to show one of the drawbacks to headers, i.e. loss of ground 
clearance.  While my example is unusual (but very real..high on the pucker 
factor), I had scraped the ground alot of times with the headers on my '69 
going in and out of driveways, parking lots, etc. This led to bent flanges 
and recurring leaks.   I drive in and out of my driveway more than I street 
race, so ground clearance is important to me.  I've hammered my '70 pretty 
hard and never had clearance problems with the stock exhaust.  The skid 
plate on the frame crossover is the lowest point on the car, and I've had to 
repaint it more than once.   Also, numerous spark plug wires, starters and 
solenoids, a motor mount, and too many exhaust gaskets to remember went by 
the wayside as a result of headers.  For a car that is already running VERY 
stout 12's, like yours, the headers/ 3" pipes were the next logical step. 
 You obviously have the savvy and persistence needed to master all aspects 
of tuning and set-up.  For the typical 442 owner who occasionally bashes at 
a street light or a few times a year at the strip, there are MANY areas that 
can be addressed first.

Let's look at nitrous.  For a basically stock 442, with a well-maintained 
motor, fuel pump and driveline, a NOS cheater plate with the 125 HP pill in 
it will take 6 to 7/10's off your ET for about $475.  It takes about 3 hours 
to install, and I did NO TUNING to my car, since NOS sets up the basic 
system over-rich.  Best of all, you'll never know the bottle is there when 
you're just out tooling around, or thrashing it down a bumpy country road 
(without wiping out your exhaust system).  A good set of headers alone are 
over $300, much less the custom 3" pipes that will have to be installed to 
take full advantage of the headers.  Best of all, the nitrous will still be 
very helpful if you eventually decide to put on headers.  And remember, it's 
not cheating to use the giggle gas.  It's an efficient way to accomplish 
your objective, specifically beating up those Paxton pony cars that are the 
choice of the young/overrich/hat on backwards crowd.

Believe me when I say that headers will be on the more aggressive 442 that I 
plan on building.  The headers, like medication, will produce wonderful 
results when used correctly.  But, you won't find headers on my 
touring/restified performance/occasional racer 442.  I still want those 12" 
rear disc brakes first.  Then the new paint job......
Scott Mullen
'70 442       

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:17:01 -0300
Subject: Early rear in late body

Does anyone know anything about installing a rear end (entire third member) 
from 
a '86-'72 A-body (Cutlass, etc.) in a '78-'88 G-body (Cutlass, Monte Carlo, 
etc.)?  I understand (3rd hand!) that it can be done using upper control arms 
from one car and lowers from the other (not sure which ones from which car!), 
but this sounds too easy!  The tracks must be different, and aren't the brake 
lines on some of the later G cars metric?

Please email me direct, or if this starts a big discussion in the newsgroup, 
cc 
me (dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us); I'm not in the newsgroup at this time.  
Thanks. 'preciate it!

Doug Kitchener
301/948-4867, Gaithersburg MD

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:12:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Toro Question 

At 05:27 AM 10/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     I came reeeeeal close to buying a '77 toro last weekend for a winter 
>     car.  $250, I could probably talk him down to $200.  Cosmetically it 
>     was a beater, but the engine (SB olds, didn't look enough to tell if 
>     it's a 350 or 403) ran great.  This was at a discount "cash talks" 

Uh, that would have been one of those one-year only, Toro-only 200hp 403's;
in good running condition worth twice what they are asking for the whole car...

It wouldn't have happened to have a wrap-around rear window or the letters
"XS" on it anywhere, did it?

Where is this located? (Great, now you've got _me_ thinking about a second,
er, third, oops, I mean 4th car that I wouldn't really need. But geesh, for
two-hundred bucks, that's a couple of grocery shoppings...)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:21:40 -0300
Subject: Horn contact ? 

Hey Art.  How's it going?  I got my hub and horn cap all painted and it
looks great!  I installed the wheel last night.  Everything went well until I
tried to figure out how to hook up the horn.  What's the secret?  My
original wheel had two wires for the horn.  I really only need one, right? 
But where the hell does it hook to?  That tab that protrudes from the back
of the contact assy. is right in the way of the wires (I fixed that though). 
So where do I hook the wire on?  That protrusion is much to thick to put a
connector on.  Helpppp!

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:30:20 -0300
Subject: Steering Box rebuild 

My steering gear box leaks like a sieve.  It drains 12 oz. of power
steering fluid per week.  Does anyone know if there is a kit available for
rebuilding these things?  I went to the parts store and asked for one. 
They didn't have a rebuild or seals kit.  All they had was remanufactured
ones for $200.  If there's a kit available, where can I get one?  About
how much $?  Thanks for any info...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:25:46 -0300
Subject: Re: W/Z dual exhaust manifolds? -Reply 

The FAQ's tells all about it...  

>>> Todd Morris <tmorris@BT1DC18E.bet.ibm.com> 10/03/96 02:46pm
>>>
  W and Z are the raised letters found, one on each, manifold for 442s. 
Forget which one is on  which side, but I think it is W on driver's man, Z
on pass side. 

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:50:12 -0300
Subject: Re: JB Weld

Hmm......

I was thinking about using JB Weld on the center divider of the two 
center exhaust ports on my 455 in order to bring the divider flush with the 
exhaust manifold mating surface(to take full advantage of the headers). 
Mondello recommends welding the divider, This would be my best bet, but 
the engine is already in the car.

Do you think the JB Weld would do it????

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0



On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, David L Wyatt wrote:

> For what it's worth. We run JB Weld in the intake and exhaust ports of our 
Jr. 
> Dragster. The engine is a modified 5 hp Briggs. We use the JB Weld to make a 
> ramp in the floor of the ports for better flow. After a full season of racing
> the exhaust port shows a tiny amount of wear on the JB Weld. It looks like 
the
> spent gasses have cut a small (1/16") grove in it. This engine turns 8000 
rpm 
> through the lights on methanol. I am now a believer in the strength of JB 
Weld. 
> I do have concerns about it's use in a block or head when trying to keep 
coolant 
> in. The expansion and contraction of the metal might be a problem.
>  
> Dave Wyatt 704-4-2
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:47:32 -0300
Subject: Steering Rebuild 

When I restored my 98 9 years ago, I had Lee Manufacturing rebuild the pump
and steering box. He modified the pum for higher line pressure and the box
with a slightly quicker ratio. I don't recall the cost, but it steers great
and has been really reliable. Like, factory level of reliability. Sorry
I can't provide you with a source for resealing kit.
cf

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:49:16 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: No-Vent Dash Pads 

          
Joe,
          
Noticed you had 68. Does it have the vents you speak of? My non-ac 68 442 
does not have ANY of these openings. Heard someone call that a "delete- 
delete" car... Don't have anything to compare it with, so son;t know.
 
          Darren,
          
          No, my 68 does not have the vents.  Only the a/c cars got 
          them in 68.  Starting in 69, all A-bodies (except, 
          apparently, the post cars) got the dash with the vents.  The 
          non-a/c cars had a blank plate in the center vent and a 
          second set of cowl vent knobs, which controlled air to the 
          outboard dash vents.
          
          I had always thought that Olds used the "vented" dash pad on 
          all cars to avoid the tooling/warehousing costs of two 
          different designs.  Apparently this was not the case.  
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30 ("ventless")
          69 H/O ("vented")
          70 W-30 ("yet more vents")
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:54:17 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: No-Vent Dash Pads 

If memory serves, the '68 Cutlasses (the first year of that A-body redesign) 
all
had vent windows 
          
          Greg, that's it!  From 69-on, only cars with vent windows 
          (ie, post cars) got the "ventless" dash pad.  Good bit of 
          deductive reasoning.  I'm still surprised that Olds went 
          through the cost of tooling up for the "ventless" pad in 70. 
          Obviously, since the 68-69 pads are the same, there was no 
          non-recurring effort, but the design changed in 70.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:00:13 -0300
Subject: Tailpipes (was: 455 Headers) 

I have a 2.5" pipes and 2.25" tail pipes with stock
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

          I'm sure the stock tail pipes are 2.0".  I've always run 
          tailpipes from the 70 GTO Judge, which are a true 2.25" and 
          still available from Midas (be prepared to argue with the 
          high school dropout behind the counter about this - force 
          him to look it up in the catalog).  The only disadvantage is 
          that the tips turn down, so some cut-and-paste work is 
          required to get the pipes aimed out the bumper cutouts (not 
          a problem if you don't have the cutouts).  These pipes will 
          work on all 68-72 A-body cars.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:07:23 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oldsmobile dics brakes 

Pretty sure that *68* was the last year for the old 4-piston style discs; 

          Greg is correct.  Four piston calipers were offered in 67 
          and 68.  Not only are parts expensive, but the calipers are 
          fixed to the spindle, not floating, and thus any 
          side-to-side wobble in the rotor causes the pistons to be 
          knocked back into the caliper, greatly increasing pedal 
          travel.  Not the best design.

and that the modern single piston design was introduced in '69 and carried 
forward from there. 

          The only difference from 69-72 is that some cars used 
          two-piece rotors (separate rotor and hub, held together by 
          the wheel studs) and some used one-piece.  The rotors are 
          interchangeable, but I'm not sure which were used where if 
          absolute authenticity is important.  All replacement rotors 
          available today are the one-piece design.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:12:06 -0300
Subject: Re: CrossMember 

Anyone know if an older Cutlass crossmember was produced w/ double notches for 
exhaust which will swap into a 84 Cutlass?? 

          Didn't the diesel cars come with duals?  Wouldn't the 
          crossmember fit?  Can you get them aftermarket for Monte 
          Carlos (Chevys are good for something!).
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:32:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question, plus rear disc brakes 

     Uh, no.  I would have recognized one of those XS toros, I know what 
     they are and how rare they are.  The car is in Spokane, it's in sad 
     shape (interior trashed, every body panel has multiple dings in it, 
     etc.), but it's all in one piece and I didn't see any rust that looked 
     terminal (like frame rot).  I also didn't drive it, just started it.
     
     Eww.. almost 100 more cubes than my 307 with only 20 more HP to show 
     for it?  Sounds like there's some room for improvement there.
     
     On another subject (that bandwidth y'know), I just heard a rumor that 
     some late 70's Caddy's (perhaps the Fleetwood?) were loosely based on 
     the G-body frame and could be caniballized for disc rear brakes.  Any 
     Cadillac experts here?  Might be worth poking around at the boneyard 
     next time I'm there. . .
     
     Tom L.
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Toro Question
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/3/96 4:08 PM


     >I came reeeeeal close to buying a '77 toro last weekend
      
Uh, that would have been one of those one-year only, Toro-only 200hp 403's;
in good running condition worth twice what they are asking for the whole car...
     
It wouldn't have happened to have a wrap-around rear window or the letters 
"XS" on it anywhere, did it?
     
     Where is this located? (Great, now you've got _me_ thinking about a 
     second, 

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:08:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Horn contact ? 

At 07:21 PM 10/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hey Art.  How's it going?  I got my hub and horn cap all painted and it
>looks great!  I installed the wheel last night.  Everything went well until I
>tried to figure out how to hook up the horn.  What's the secret?  My
>original wheel had two wires for the horn.  I really only need one, right? 
>But where the hell does it hook to?  That tab that protrudes from the back
>of the contact assy. is right in the way of the wires (I fixed that though). 
>So where do I hook the wire on?  That protrusion is much to thick to put a
>connector on.  Helpppp!
>
I used a female connector on mine, I had to spread it a little, but it
worked. I attatched the two wires together on the female connector.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: janice lott <jlott@island.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:41:34 -0300
Subject: body and interior parts

In 1985 I purchased a very well looked after 1975 olds 442. The car had
been owned by an elderly man and his wife. She (wife) drove the car to
work and back daily (3blcks or so), so the car had only 59,000 mi on the
clock. After I purchsaed the car , I had it repainted its originall red
collor with white strips, a real beauty!  Its 455 v-8 was unstoppable
with bags of spare power . I moved from Manitoba( a very cold place
centered in the Canadian praries) to Canadas west coast for the warmer
climate.  After living in Vancuover for a while, economic reasons forced
me to sell the car after 4.5 yrs of ownership. Thinking I would never
surface again, I spotted the car on the local hwy!! I followed the car
home (remember , I sold this car in 1989, and spotted it in 1994) and
spoke with the owner -behold my 442 had benn repainted black!! After a
year and a half , I have the chance to by the car back for $350.00 . But
the interior is toast, the body, rear 1/4's , rear fender wels, doors,
rear wheel wells and most of the floor is bably rusted away. the once
pristine interior is decayed plastic and ripped vinyl. Thes is a major
resto project. The 455 and 400TH auto are intact and functinoning ok.
All the glass is ok as well. What shall I do. Here on Vancouver Island,
used parts for a 1975 classic like this are almost non exsistant. I need
some local help. please send my some info asap. thanks, Dave.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:09:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Horn contact ?

Blaine,
I just put one on my 72 Cutlass wagon. Had the same two wire connector as you 
found. There is a round, plastic horn contact under the steering wheel. You 
need 
one contact sticking up through the steering wheel hub. The horn contact, that 
the cap snaps onto, has an "L" shaped extension on the bottom that sits on the 
contact sticking through the steering wheel hub. The horn contact just screws 
into the steering wheel hub, and the cap snaps over that.
In other words, you need a spring, round metal contact that fits into the 
plastic contact under the wheel, and a small piece of plastic that holds the 
spring and round metal piece in place.
If you have a shop manual, it shows the sport wheel and how to install.

Art

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:12:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 96 Olds LSS 

I've got a '96 Monte Carlo and I don't have any noticable torque steer, even
under acceleration.  Have you considered the Edge return policy?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:12:22 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

In a message dated 96-10-03 01:29:44 EDT, you write:

>  I thought all
>            70-72 (and 69, for that matter) A-body dash pads had the
>            vent openings - the non-air cars just got manual vents and a
>            center blockoff plate.

The '72 sales brochure shows a photo of the dash from either the base Cutlass
or F-85 with a solid, no-vent dash.  I had to look twice at that, but it
seems true.  The '72 SPECS book lists Flo-Thru Ventilation as standard
equipment on all Cutlass Supremes, Cutlass S Holiday Coupe and Cutlass
Holiday Coupe.  Those cars that were not equipped with Flo-Thru were equipped
with standard Crank-Operated Vent Windows.  These included Vista Cruisers,
Cutlass S Sports Coupe, Cutlass Sedan and Cruiser and F-85 Town Sedan.
 There's two Cutlass Cruisers on here, do either of you guys NOT have A/C?
 If so, do you have vents or nothing?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:11:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 96 Olds LSS

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >       I don't know if you cover recent cars, however I have a 96 LSS with
> >terrible torque steer to the right.  The car will not go in a straight
> >line.
> 
> If it can't even _coast_ in a straight line, there is a problem. I'd
> check that the tire pressures are all even, and try swapping the tires
> front-for-back on each side. Less likely possibilities might include a
> bad motor mount allowing the transxle to shift under acceleration...?
> 
> >My dealer and regional manager have explained to me the alignment is
> >correct
> 
> ...if they measured it, perhaps this much is true...
> 
> >and that this is a "normal characteristic of a front wheel drive
> >car."
> 
> No it isn't. Given that it's a '96, it should be easy for you to try
> another example to see if it behaves the same way. I assume it won't.
> And although you've gone to the regional level already, you might try
> another Olds dealer's service department to see if you can find a
> sharper mechanic who can pin down the problem.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
>It sounds like you have a bent spindle or tie rod ends bent.

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:15:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question, plus rear disc brakes 

At 12:32 PM 10/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     Uh, no.  I would have recognized one of those XS toros, I know what 
>     they are and how rare they are.  The car is in Spokane, it's in sad 
>     shape (interior trashed, every body panel has multiple dings in it, 
>     etc.), but it's all in one piece and I didn't see any rust that looked 
>     terminal (like frame rot).  I also didn't drive it, just started it.

Sounds like the ideal winter car; don't even have to wipe off your feet
before entering!
     
>     Eww.. almost 100 more cubes than my 307 with only 20 more HP to show 
>     for it?  Sounds like there's some room for improvement there.

Considering that it has the lame .400" lift cam and EGR tubes in the intake
the size of popsicles, it's amazing it puts out any hp at all! Torque
compared to your 307, however, is another matter entirely...
     
>     On another subject (that bandwidth y'know), I just heard a rumor that 
>     some late 70's Caddy's (perhaps the Fleetwood?) were loosely based on 
>     the G-body frame and could be caniballized for disc rear brakes.  Any 
>     Cadillac experts here?  Might be worth poking around at the boneyard 
>     next time I'm there. . .

They were both E-bodies, so the parts should swap right over; if not the
spindles, then the whole rear axle. The '71-'78's are different than the
earlier units, though, so it's not an option for us first-genners.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:07:35 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted

> Deluxe belts have a chrome or brushed chrome buckle and the webbing is color
> keyed to the interior color.
> 
> Standard belts have a black buckle and the webbing is black only.

I have a set of blue 68 belts with blue buckels and a pair of 70 gold 
buckels.  Therefore, I think the standard belts were matched to the 
interior color.  One other note about the difference, the plastic 
(colored) latches have a GM sticker, where the chrome belts have a GM 
raised logo that is identical.

Anyway, I still need 1 deluxe (chrome) buckel for the passenger's side.  
Blue preferrable.

Thanks,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:19:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 59' Oldsmobile 88 series 4 door 

Hi mark hoe about a deck of 59 Olds cards yes I have had them since 59 my dad
once sold Olds cars and I have a lot of promo stuff the deck of cards are
still in my tool box where i work which is in a GM dealer but sorry not an
Olds dealer the Pontiac dealer here pays about 2.50 more and hour for A Techs
so sorry to say i don't have access to any new olds stuff

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:32:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 77 specs.

At 05:26 PM 10/3/96 -0300, Jason Hairston wrote:
>Could someone please tell me where I can find information about my 77 442-403.
>I would like to know rear end ratio, hp, etc.

There were 11,649 produced, the second highest 442 production year. The 403
has a 8.00 compression ratio, 4bbl Rochester M4MC carb, 185 hp@3600 and 320
torque@2200. The 3 spd Auto was standard with the 5 spd Manual optional.
Transmission ratios for Auto are 1st(2.48) 2nd(1.48) and 3rd(1.00). Standard
rear axle ratio was 2.56. Shipping weight was 3535lbs. Base price with the
442 option was $4520. Car & Driver tested the car and got a 1/4 mile time of
17.30@79.3mph and 17.5 mpg. I got this out of a 442 databook and price guide
from 1986.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 CFI 305/TH-350....daily driver
81 Camaro 229V6/3spd man....................don't know yet
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH350....... see at www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH350................restoration project

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:36:49 -0300
Subject: Last Call - CCR Fall Show, Sun Oct 6

Hello Oldsmobilers!!!

THIS IS THE LAST TIME, PROMISE!  ( I fibbed last time )

The Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America will be
having our
8th Annual All-Oldsmobile Fall Show on Sunday October 6, 1996 @ Templeton
Oldsmobile
in Vienna, VA featuring:
  
o  OCA judging w/ awards
o  FREE T-shirt, dash plaque and goodie bag for each entry. (Goodie Bag 
Stuffers
    - Oldsmobile Division	 - Mobil 1 Racing
    - Fusick Automotive	 - Edelbrock
    - The Wax Shop		 - Olds Parts USA
    - Auto Custom Carpets 	 - Western Auto Parts America
    - STP/Son of a Gun	 - JB Weld
    - Steele Rubber		 - Stencils & Stripes and others)
o  Oldies 100 WBIG to supply the tunes.
o  Food vendor for your heart clogging needs with breakfast & lunch
o  Parts Department open w/ discounts on all cash & check purchases
o  Great door prizes to be given away all day. (Prizes from Templeton Olds, 
K&N Engineering,  Auto Custom Carpets, Olds Parts USA, Mothers, 
Edelbrock, Stencils & Stripes, Apple Hydraulics and others)

Registration $12 first car, $5 each additional car
PRE-1949 Oldsmobiles & spectators are free !!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PRE-REGISTRATION ENDS SEPTEMBER 21 !!!!!
(past)

Gates open @ 9AM, judging starts @ 12PM,  
awards as soon as judging is completed (3PM???)

For more info or a registration form, e-mail me.


 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 88 LSS 
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:45:31 -0300
Subject: Re: body and interior parts

Well I have had a real hard time finding parts for my 1975 Hurst/Olds
(nearly identical to the 442). I located a parts car 75 H/O in Michigan and
drove to get it. Local yards around me (and I have tons of connections being
that my family is in the salvage business) turned up no 75 Cutlass/442/H/O
parts. Floor pans can be ordered out of a Chevelle/ElCamino catalog. I
ordered my replacement pans for a 75 El Camino and they fit my 75 Hurst/Olds
perfect. Most interior items are not reproduced yet and you will need to
find good used pieces to repaint. The 442 hood, fenders, bumpers and a few
other body pieces are made by Dick Miller Racing in Michigan. I have seen
replacement quarter panels in a body shop catalog but they were expensive.  

At 09:41 PM 10/3/96 -0300, janice lott wrote:
>In 1985 I purchased a very well looked after 1975 olds 442. The car had
>been owned by an elderly man and his wife. She (wife) drove the car to
>work and back daily (3blcks or so), so the car had only 59,000 mi on the
>
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 CFI 305/TH-350....daily driver
81 Camaro 229V6/3spd man....................don't know yet
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH350....... see at www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH350................restoration project

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:22:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Steering Box rebuild

On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:

> My steering gear box leaks like a sieve.  It drains 12 oz. of power
> steering fluid per week.  Does anyone know if there is a kit available for
> rebuilding these things?  I went to the parts store and asked for one. 
> They didn't have a rebuild or seals kit.  All they had was remanufactured

    Yes, there is a rebuild kit available.   It should be about $40 - but 
the problem is installing it.  If it's just a pitman shaft or input shaft 
seal it's not a big deal - except for getting the pitman arm off.  I have 
yet to ever tear down a recirculating ball steering box and get it back 
together properly.

    I got my kit at a parts store that caters mainly to the shop crowd, 
not the DIY guys.   If you really need it, I can get brand/part info for 
you.

> -Blaine
> '72 Cutlass Supreme

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:38:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

>South side of Fuddruckers lot, 3:00p.m. this Sunday sounds >like the plan.
>I will try and be there as it sounds like it will be fun. 

Me too.  Can only stay til about 4:30 tho.  Anyone keeping track of who and
how many?  Any other kids aside from Andy's and mine?

David Wilk
Glencoe
847/835-5654

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:33:47 -0300
Subject: Cross Member... 

Tomorrow night I will send out a detailed list of what has to be done to use
the 73 cross member in a G-body.  Sorry for the delay...

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show 
86 442 -> Summer Driver 
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:06:13 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts  

My '63 Nova had the all chrome buckle that lifted from the side to release.
My 2 '67 Olds had the color keyed belts with the chrome buckle & Fisher logo
centerpiece.  My '72 has the same belts.  On my Nova the belts were the
deluxe type as it was an SS and got the deluxe interior.  In this months
issue of Muscle Car Review there is a manufacuter of all stock belts of all
brands.  If your interested I can post for you.

>
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:08:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Haulers 

Hemmings Motor News has an extensive list of car carriers & has ads for
services to move cars - from towbars to trains to enclosed 18 wheelers.
Some are pretty reasonable.  i could have brought a Vista Cruiser from New
York to here for $750 (enclosed).
Your only talking a state or two distance - oughta be reasonable.
  
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:24:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Color for Tiny and FRP digest for Lisa 

I was rather partial to my almost solid navy blue (a '67 Olds color) and
light blue top on my '67 Cutlass convert.  The blue was much classier in
its primary form.  While I am also a fan of light or soft yellows, isnt your
interior dark?  There are some really lovely black-plum combinations that
might just offset a black top and be very sophisticated - !??  And fry you
in the summer, right?

We're tossing colors around for the '66 Chevy truck the other half just
bought - its no easy decision.  I like the contest idea too - but what if
you dont like their choice?

Well, good luck  - thanks again -
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:26:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Contact List 

A dreaded - me too.  I'll tackle it once Greg figures it out for us....
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:46:01 -0300
Subject: Magazine Olds sighting 

This months Muscle Car Review has a beautiful '66 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 featured.
Great car - lots of good info in the write up (if they'd stop acting like
Olds produced so FEW performance cars).  Reminds me of a Starfire that
showed up at the local show - factory original 394 with a four speed & posi,
3:90 gears and NO OPTIONS other than the goodies in the drivetrain.  An
unusual but neat car.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:09:45 -0300
Subject: Re: 96 Olds LSS 

>>	I don't know if you cover recent cars, however I have a 96 LSS with
>>terrible torque steer to the right.  The car will not go in a straight
>>line.

     Since they've said the alignment is OK (if you trust their
measurements...) I'd look elsewhere.  I drove a '96 LSS and it had no torque
steer whatsoever.  It DID have plenty of torque, too!  Motor mounts can
cause this problem, at times.  Since it's new, I'd expect them to be good,
though.  Same with CV joints.  Front drivers have the problem of one axle
shaft being longer than the other, so T-S becomes a problem.  There may be
problems with that shaft assembly.  My thoughts would be engine alignment
problems.  Maybe take it to a body shop and have them check for unibody
tweaking, and engine/tranny alignment.  Send your dealer the bill.  If the
Engine/tranny (which usu. go into the car as a unit at the factory) got
bolted up out of alignment, you'd likely get a TS problem.  
     That would be MY recommendation, anyway.  Good luck!  Oh, by the way,
is that the supercharged LSS?  
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:35:53 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads

Paul,
A friend and fellow Olds club member has a 72 Cutlass Cruiser, mine is the 
same 
color as his, that is a no air car. His dash is ventless. It was the first one 
I'd ever seen. Since then, I have found two cars with no vents.
Just a word about my friends car. He chased the car for years before he was 
able 
to purchase it. It has two build sheets, one showing that the original owner, 
a 
local boat salesman, ordered with the 442 suspension under it. Of course, it 
also has the 455. The second build sheet shows it being painted Corvette white 
at the factory.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:50:19 -0300 
Subject: Rare Factory Triple Black

In the past I've seen references to cars painted "Rare Factory Triple Black".
The latest issue of JWO has a '70 Cutlass SX for sale with this "option".

What makes it "triple" as opposed to just black?  Is my black 442
covered in the rare triple black?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:15:39 -0300
Subject: Re: J B Weld

Steve,
I would go ahead and try it as a port divider. If it come loose it 
can't physicaly hurt anything. Just be sure that the ports are clean
as can be before applying it. As I said in my earlier post, the exhaust 
cut a small groove in it after a full season of racing. That groove is
directly under the valve where the gasses hit the floor of the port.
	
			
Good Luck!
Dave Wyatt  70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:10:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Rare Factory Triple Black 

> What makes it "triple" as opposed to just black?  Is my black 442
> covered in the rare triple black?

I had always thought that when "triple black" was mentioned, it referred
to the interior, exterior, and top.  Hence "triple white" would be a white car,
with white interior and white top.  Feel free to disagree.

Mike Turley         '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:22:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Rare Factory Triple Black

Maybe it's black with a black interior and a black vinyl top?
Scott Mullen
'70 442
 ----------
From: Jeffrey.Easton
To: mullenrs;         -         (052)oldsmobile(a)chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Rare Factory Triple Black
Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 9:00AM


In the past I've seen references to cars painted "Rare Factory Triple 
Black".
The latest issue of JWO has a '70 Cutlass SX for sale with this "option".

What makes it "triple" as opposed to just black?  Is my black 442
covered in the rare triple black?

 -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:41:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Super Sonic / 67 442 Bumper

> From bettiss@empnet.com Wed Oct  2 15:28:06 1996
> Also need a 67 442 rear bumper.  Thanks,     bettiss@empnet.com
> 
> 
FWIW, the rear bumper from a Cutlass Supreme (as opposed to the base Cut.)
is the same.

I'm looking for one, too, but unfortunately...



Tim (Who Just Flew in From Cape Canaveral Last Night) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:04:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

>>South side of Fuddruckers lot, 3:00p.m. this Sunday sounds >like the plan.
>>I will try and be there as it sounds like it will be fun. 

Hope so. I'm bringing a camera; hopefully we'll have some photos for
a future web page.

>Me too.  Can only stay til about 4:30 tho.  Anyone keeping track of who and
>how many?  Any other kids aside from Andy's and mine?

David from UofC had a distribution list going there for a while;
I have a copy of it somewhere... For the record, we're bringing
our 2-year-old Christopher, who's actually going to be 3 on the
14th. Having some other kids to play with will keep him from
wandering off or getting bored. I think 4:30 will probably be
our limit, too, since the light will be failing by then anyway.
We may head indoors for an early dinner at Fuddruckers at that
point, though; who knows...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:20:55 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 442 Bumper 

At 10:41 AM 10/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>> From bettiss@empnet.com Wed Oct  2 15:28:06 1996
>> Also need a 67 442 rear bumper.  Thanks,     bettiss@empnet.com
>> 
>> 
>FWIW, the rear bumper from a Cutlass Supreme (as opposed to the base Cut.)
>is the same.
>
>I'm looking for one, too, but unfortunately...
>
The Bumper shop in Los Angeles quoted me $250 including a core for a front
or rear bumper for my 67 C/S a couple of years ago ($25.00 shipping on the
new bumper) I can't imagine their prices have gone up that much since
then...let me know if you want the address & phone.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #320
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