To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	12/07/96 10:43:10 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #395


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 7 December 1996     Volume 01 : Number 395


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 12:26:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Bravada Advertisments

In a message dated 96-12-05 21:35:37 EST, you write:

<< Maybe Heidi can let us in on how this particular series of ads came
 about,
 as they seem to be rather tastfully done and are a little out of the
ordinary.
  >>

Hello Jeff,

Well,  I did some checking.  Here's the scoop.  Oldsmobile offered a Bravada
to AutoWeek to randomly select some of it's subscriber to drive the Bravada
for a week and write about their experience.  AutoWeek then publishes the
drivers thoughs and comments.  Next issue will feature a subscriber from
Minneapolis.  This is all the detail I have.

Heidi
Oldsmobile Division
Olds Heidi@aol.com

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 12:39:46 -0400
Subject: fluids under the hood (was re: Insturment Panel Swap)

> There are up to five fluids that one can find under the hood.
>
>         1. Engine oil
>         2. A/T fluid (tranny and power steering)
>         3. Tranmission grease if manual trans
>         3. Coolant, usually water and glycol
>         4. Fuel: Gasoline/diesel fuel, depending on engine type
>         5. Windshield washer fluid

Don't forget brake fluid...

Also what we usually do instead of getting the mystery fluid
on ourselves is put a bit of water on/in the mystery fluid.

If it mixes redily with the water, you have radiator fluid.
If the water beads off, you have oil.
If it truns milkey white/light pink you have ATF.

This isn't a 100% tru-ism, just an easy backyard-type test.

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation
travism@utdallas.edu

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 05:13:04 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: G-body VIN codes

     I've been told digit 11 is a check digit.  Something like a checksum
     or a parity bit.  It's there to help prevent made-up and modified VIN
     numbers.  I've never seen a formula on how to calculate what this
     should be from the rest of the digits, or how to verify it.

     Anyone know?

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    12/6/96 2:19 AM

11-17 unsure.  I think the serial # code is just the last 6, leaving 11
unknown to me.  If I looked it up I'd probably be able to tell ya, but I'm
not gonna get that carried away tonight.  (It's 3 AM, I just got off work)

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:17:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Saving the good stuff

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>

>On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:
>>      Here's a strange idea (I'm thinking big today).  What if someone were
>>      to save all the posts from this group for a year or more, and
>>      afterwards have a CD pressed with all the posts on it, plus a search
>>      engine.  I know that there are search engines available that will take
>>      care of all the indexing and such for you.  I know I'd want one, and I
>>      think it could be done for less than $20-$30 per CD if we made 50-100
>>      of them.

>I think someone has beat you to this one. I seem to recall that Jeff
>Easton has been archiving all of the digests since the early days and has
>mentioned that he would someday like to put them out on CD. I'll let him
>follow up on this one... hope I'm not putting him on the spot!

Who, me?  :-)

Yes, I have strived to save every olds post since the very begining.
However. my collection ranges from several different mail formats,
and the straight list vs. the Digest.  I need to export them all to
straight text and organize them.  The plan was to put them on
a CD-ROM until my last company self destructed and my access
to a CD-Writer went away.  I'm still saving, in hopes of either
finding a writer here, or they become so cheap I can justifty
buying one myself.

Since the list is small compared to the space on a CD, I was thinking
of putting the olds FAQ, a copy of Brycmans web site (with Dave and
Bryces permission of course) and whatever else olds related I could
think of (pictures come to mind).

My intent was one off's done on the CD-Writer.  These should cost
under $20 apeice with the current cost of blanks.  The time to write
a lot of these would be large however.  If you want to do a 100 or
so, the cost should be a lot less, as we should be able to have that
quantity pressed by some CD house.  We'd also need a commitment
from list members to buy them...

Anybody with a CD-Writer want to volunteer, if I put together
the content?

Anybody else been saving Digests?  I may be missing one
or two.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:21:43 -0400
Subject: Re: What price 67 Delta 88 4dr hdtp

Bob McElroy wrote:
> I might be interested in a larger, older vehicle since none of the
> newer vehicles fit me very well (6'3" tall, 34" wide across the
> shoulder, yes that means I am approximately as wide and only a
> little shorter than a standard house door.)
> ...
> The only problem is that I prefer two-doors over four-doors.
> Anyone know where I can find a decent early to mid-seventies
> Delta 88 coupe or convertible for a reasonable price?

What you need is a 1969 Olds 98 convertible.  Unfortunatly mine
isn't for sale, but if you wouldn't mind going to New York
I know where you could get 2 (running, and parts car) for
only $1400!  You could even make some of that money back by
selling me the parts car if you don't want it :)

Seriously though, the 69 98 is an excellent car for
taller people.  If for no other reason then because the
power seat controls are on the door instead of inside
somewhere.  This means that you can run the seat back
without bending over and reaching inside the car.  This
is great for me since I share my car with someone that's
5'2" (I'm 6'1").


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation
travism@utdallas.edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:13:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Olds and Johnny Law

At 11:31 AM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Bob Handren wrote:
>
>>I recently saw a bumper sticker which says "Protected by Smith & Wesson."
>
>>Works for me.
>
>Doesn't work well for the cop pulling you over for a traffic stop.  Cop
>anxiety= Ticket for you.

 Maybe
>I didn't get that ticket because he thought I was a moron.  Has anyone
>else had similar experiences with the law in their Olds?
>Scott Mullen
>'70 442
>
The dumbest cop,

I was late for my brothers wedding, and was clipping E on I70 at 100+ when I
was stopped by a St. Charles Country Highway Patrol officer, that I later
learned had the reputation for issuing more tickets than any one else on the
planet.

Rather sheepishly, I opened the window, it was March, and as he came up, in
an almost overbearing tone he said, "where ya flying in such a hurry lad,
let me see your pilots license!"  So I gave it to him.  He was dumbfounded.
Threw it back into the car, and said, "get the h*ll out of here, and don't
let me catch you again!"

He didn't.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:31:42 -0400
Subject: RE: Recessed valves, carbon

> Years ago, GM used to sell a product that was used as a tune-up
> solvent, but I do not know if it is still available.  You would
> pour it down the carb throat(engine smoking all the way) and as
> you got to the last of the can, you would flood the engine until
> it stalled.  Turn off key, let soak under deposits, put in new
> plugs, complete tune-up, fire it up, and drive it for at lease 1/2
> mile to end the smoking.  I remember it was effective, but I can't
> say that the water didn't work just a well.

I have a 1973 "generic" auto repair manual the describes a
similar procedure, but using ATF or other solvents like Marvel
Myster Oil or Berryman B-12. The funny part was, as they said
"... then start the car up and run the engine until all the
solvent has burned out.  When you can see out the rear window
again, you're done."  Heh, heh.  Aparently it's quite a fogger.
I've never tried it myself.


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:16:16 -0400
Subject: Re: fluids under the hood (was re: Insturment Panel Swap)

At 12:39 PM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> There are up to five fluids that one can find under the hood.
>>
>>         1. Engine oil
>>         2. A/T fluid (tranny and power steering)
>>         3. Tranmission grease if manual trans
>>         3. Coolant, usually water and glycol
>>         4. Fuel: Gasoline/diesel fuel, depending on engine type
>>         5. Windshield washer fluid
>
>Don't forget brake fluid...
>
>Also what we usually do instead of getting the mystery fluid
>on ourselves is put a bit of water on/in the mystery fluid.
>
>If it mixes redily with the water, you have radiator fluid.
>If the water beads off, you have oil.
>If it truns milkey white/light pink you have ATF.
>
>This isn't a 100% tru-ism, just an easy backyard-type test.
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
>tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation
>travism@utdallas.edu
>

I can't believe I missed one.  Thanks,

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:06:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the pace and GM quality

At 11:06 AM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A few years ago, (ok quite a few) some of my friends worked at Guide
>Lamp and Delco-Remy in Anderson Indiana. We were talking about the
>quality difference between Camaros and Firebirds. They told me that
>Pontiac would reject 50% of the parts they sent, Chevrolet only rejected
>about 10% of the same parts. I would guess that Oldsmobile was rejecting
>a high percentage also at that time. Needless to say, the corporate
>situation of GM will make it hard for anyone to see a difference in
>brands. When they said "This is not your fathers Oldsmobile" they were
>not kidding. My fathers Olds had personality as does mine. Our children
>will be able to relate to that statement when they start buying cars and
>can not tell them apart without a score card.
>
>Off the soapbox for now,
>Dave Wyatt
>70  4-4-2
>
>
A little more soap.  GM has blurred all of their brands, I believe to keep
the corporation from being broken into two.  Tne or 15 years ago Washington,
in all of its notorious wisdom thought that GM was too big, and should be
broken into two.

Today, save for the few speciality cars (such as Corvette) everyone sells
everthing; making disolution impossible.

The Wiz

P.S. Did you know that Guide Lamp division at Anderson had a WWII contract
to make a .45 caliber pistol.  They were to make 1,000,000 at $1.00 each,
and do it in a month.  They made the 1,000,000, but they cost $2.00 and it
took two months.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:26:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Culp Thanks

>I'm pleased that you like them.  I wasn't sure about the non Olds parts
>(Chevy, Buick, etc) but I took a chance on them anyway. (non-Olds
>content).

Ya, sure.  If it'll interchange, don't leave it out just because it might be
a Chevy part.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:52:58 -0400
Subject: RE: Recessed valves, carbon

>By now you know Dave, you will have to solve the origin that richness
>condition, or a few months after the cleaning, you'll have to it all over
>again.

Yeah, I knew that.  :)  The engine is an inline 6 with a Rochester Monojet
on it (what a piece of crap carburetor!).  Are there needles/jets available
for it?  Is there any other way to adjust the mixture?


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:08:55 -0400
Subject: RE: Recessed valves, carbon

> I have a 1973 "generic" auto repair manual the describes a
> similar procedure, but using ATF or other solvents like Marvel
> Myster Oil or Berryman B-12. The funny part was, as they said
> "... then start the car up and run the engine until all the
> solvent has burned out.  When you can see out the rear window
> again, you're done."  Heh, heh.  Aparently it's quite a fogger.
> I've never tried it myself.

I *have* done it. In a enclosed garage. Not a smart move. Confession follows.

I used a product sold here by Canadian Tire as "Super-Concentrated
Combustion Chamber Cleaner". It is a clear liquid and looks like it might
be some sort of solvent but I don't know exactly what's in it. The
instructions are the same as quoted earlier; fast idle, pour it into the
carburetor, and try to time it so as you dump the last of it in the
engine stalls out. Then you let it sit for a while and drive the car for
a bit.

Here I am in the basement garage of my apartment building, under the hood
of my '68, trying to dump this stuff into the carb and hold the idle up
enough so that it won't stall out until it's all in. I do it, back out
from under the hood and look up. There is a layer of blue smoke about 3
feet thick at ceiling level that is so thick you can't see the ceiling,
and it's coming at me. Looks just like those scenes in the movie
"Backdraft". Thankfully there is a ventilation shaft nearby and it's
moving that way, otherwise it looks big enough to fill the entire 200-car
garage. I beat a retreat, skulking away and anxiously looking around like
Carl the Greenskeeper in "Caddyshack" after he blew up the golf course.
I'm hoping there are no smoke detectors there or the whole fire department
will be here in a minute. Thankfully there aren't. I make a mental note
not to do that inside ever again. Good thing there was no one else around.

The next morning I go back; smoke is gone and surprisingly there are no
traces of carbon under the exhaust pipes. Hmmm. Start the engine and blue
smoke galore. Looks like I have no valve seals; wonder what this stuff
might have done. Drive out of the garage with a cloud of blue smoke in my
wake. At intersections the blue cloud surrounds the car and passersby
stare. I slide down in the seat to keep from being seen. After a few
minutes I get to a road where I can floor the accelerator. I do and look
in the mirror. It looks like I'm now driving an Olds diesel; two thick
clouds of pure-black smoke are in my wake before they gradually
disappear. Next stop, no blue smoke, no black smoke, car is back to
normal. Whether it had any beneficial effect on how it ran afterwards is
hard to say, but it definitely removed something from inside the engine.

My advice: don't do it if any Greenpeacers are nearby.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:10:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper problem

>I need help with my wipers.  The drivers side wiper has two "arms", one is
>the wiper arm itself, the other is a small "secondary" arm which changes the
>position of the wiper blade in relation to the wiper arm as it goes across
>the window.  The problem is with the small stud that the secondary arm
>mounts to on the wiper, uh, tower(?).  It's almost worn through from 27
>years of wiper use.  How do you remove the tower that the wiper arm mounts
>to?  Are the wiper towers available repro or NOS?

>Thanks...
 - --
>Dave Paulison

Dave,
I had the same problem on my '69 Cutlass!  The secondary arm came off
that little stud in the middle of a driving rain storm.  Fix this
problem ASAP, because when it lets go, the driver's side wiper ceases to
function(as I dicovered at highway speeds!!!!).  I was able to find the
little clip on the cowl vent screen, so I brazed a blob of metal onto
what was left of the stud, and reconstructed it with a small file.
Worked until the car rotted away.  You have now reminded me to check my
'70 442 to see if the design is the same, and to lubricate that stud
with a dab of grease.  Thanks for sharing this!!!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:13:08 -0400
Subject: SB Exh. manifolds (was: Bill K. speaks the truth)

     I've often wondered if there were better flowing exh. manifolds that
     might fit my 307 G-body.  I've seen rundowns here of which big-block
     manifolds are preferable, but never small block manifolds.

     Anybody know?  Perhaps there were good-flowing ones on 403 equipped
     cars?

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Bill K. speaks the truth Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    12/6/96 8:06 AM


     >The headers were a pain & over the years finally rusted out.  Back
     went >the stock manifolds & pipes.  I liked them much better - no more
     leaking >gaskets.

     revive the headers vs. maifolds debate.  IMHO, manifolds are the way
     to go for 95% of street applications.  I've ridden in several low 13/
     high 12 Olds and Pontiacs that had factory manis.  I'm investing in
     Wilwood

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:25:35 -0400
Subject: Resto Tip

I have this tranny shift cable that's kinda sticky...well real stiff !

It doesn't come apart like a speedo cable, and I needed to get some lube into
it.

So I found some clear tubing that would slip over the end all the way down to
the first solid ferrule.  I filled the tube with diesel fuel (cheaper than
WD-40 !) to flush the grit out and loosen the action. I suspended this over a
can and let it drip through all night.  After two applications of this, the
cable was moving very freely, and I coudn't see much more dirt/grit coming
out.  Then I repeated the process with some oil/teflon juice I had, and
dripped this through for two nights.  Then the cable works very well.

I'm also thinking of forcing a zerk into the end of the tube, and jacking some
all temp grease into core, displacing the oil, and preserving it for long term
use.

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:25:33 -0400
Subject: RE: Your Ch*vy and Johnny Law (non-olds )

Well, I was running late for something R-E-A-L important ( I was 17), in my
'53 Ch*vy Belair when I passed the classic County Mounty sitting in a
driveway, partially hidden by a sign.  His lights went on,  I pulled over, and
he slowly sauntered to my car.

He leaned casually on to the window sill and said "I been waitin' for you all
day !"

I replied, " I got here as fast as I could !".

After a long guffaw and shake of his head, he said" Well, I deserved that...so
slow down from now on and I'll just call this a warning...

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:31:13 -0400
Subject: RE: Recessed valves, carbon

>By now you know Dave, you will have to solve the origin that richness
>condition, or a few months after the cleaning, you'll have to it all over
>again.

>Yeah, I knew that.  :)  The engine is an inline 6 with a Rochester >Monojet
on it (what a piece of crap carburetor!).  Are there needles/jets >available
for it?  Is there any other way to adjust the mixture?

>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

Maybe it could be a slightly needle/seat on the float ?  Does it start well
after several days ?  Does the choke always pull off ?  Are the plugs the
correct heat range ?  Timing ?

I'm sure others can be more helpful.

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:56:00 -0400
Subject: Dual point Dist.

Cease fire on the email for the free dual point.  I have 4 people in
line.  If none of these four want it I'll post another note.  Thanks!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:47:22 -0400
Subject: '86 442 catalytic convertor

Hey guys,

	Thanks for all the help.  I'm starting finals week so I probably won't 
try
any of this till later.  To test my convertor can I just undo the pipe and
drive it down the road a little ways to see if that helps.  I did this on my
Impala when I thought the orirginal 200,000 mile muffler was stopped up.  Man
what a difference going from a stopped up single exhaust to a dual exhaust
with flowmasters.  Anyhow, (chasing rabbits here) if I unhook it would effect
the computer in anyway?

Thanks
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:40:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Saving the good stuff

At 01:17 PM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
>
>>On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:
>>>      Here's a strange idea (I'm thinking big today).  What if someone were
>>>      to save all the posts from this group for a year or more, and
>>>      afterwards have a CD pressed with all the posts on it, plus a search
>>>      engine.  I know that there are search engines available that will
take >>>      care of all the indexing and such for you.  I know I'd want one,
and I >>>      think it could be done for less than $20-$30 per CD if we made
50-100 >>>      of them. > >>I think someone has beat you to this one. I seem
to recall that Jeff >>Easton has been archiving all of the digests since the
early days and has >>mentioned that he would someday like to put them out on
CD. I'll let him >>follow up on this one... hope I'm not putting him on the
spot! > >Who, me?  :-) > >Yes, I have strived to save every olds post since
the very begining. >However. my collection ranges from several different mail
formats, >and the straight list vs. the Digest.  I need to export them all to
>straight text and organize them.  The plan was to put them on >a CD-ROM until
my last company self destructed and my access >to a CD-Writer went away.  I'm
still saving, in hopes of either >finding a writer here, or they become so
cheap I can justifty >buying one myself. > >Since the list is small compared
to the space on a CD, I was thinking >of putting the olds FAQ, a copy of
Brycmans web site (with Dave and >Bryces permission of course) and whatever
else olds related I could >think of (pictures come to mind). > >My intent was
one off's done on the CD-Writer.  These should cost >under $20 apeice with the
current cost of blanks.  The time to write >a lot of these would be large
however.  If you want to do a 100 or >so, the cost should be a lot less, as we
should be able to have that >quantity pressed by some CD house.  We'd also
need a commitment >from list members to buy them... > >Anybody with a
CD-Writer want to volunteer, if I put together >the content? > >Anybody else
been saving Digests?  I may be missing one >or two. > >-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com > >1970 442  4-Speed > > If you really
think the CD idea is viable.  I understand that the least expensive way to do
it is have it done, professional production.  The master costs several hundred
dollars, and the copies a buck or two.  100 copies should therefore come in
about about $5.00 or 6.00 ea.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:00:47 -0400
Subject: 1932 Oldsmobile paper

Red,

I had a chance to go thru my 1932 Oldsmobile paper, and I discovered I have
the mother lode.  I have a full line sales brochure, 1932 dedicated owners
manual, 1932 dedicated body parts manual, 1932 edition of the chassis parts
manuals, excellent on the '32 and goes back a few years.  I also have the
dedicated 1932 accessories catalog.  There is a company that Xeroxes from
books, just around the corner from my house.  It is much more expensive than
5000 newsletters, because of all the handling.  I'll check on a price on any
if you want any of them copied.

The owners manual, body parts manual, and accessory catalog are fairly thin.
The chassis parts is 0.50" thick, and the sales brochure is big in all
directions, although only about 16 pages.

I think we played E-mail machine tag this morning.  If you didn't get the
attachment file with the machine shop on it, I'll be happy to send it again.
I'm not sure how what went where or why, but I think we got most everything
settled.

There is another company in central Illinois that has a good reputation.
It's in Effingham, and I think is called Effingham Regrind.  I would call
them too.  In as much as Effingham is on I70, I expect that it wouldn't be
any more of a trip than to Saint Louis.  I don't have their number, so
you'll need to directory assistance it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:03:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Saving the good stuff

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, C.R.F. wrote:

<Biggest SNIP I've done all day !!>

> If you really think the CD idea is viable.  I understand that the least
> expensive way to do it is have it done, professional production.  The master
> costs several hundred dollars, and the copies a buck or two.  100 copies
> should therefore come in about about $5.00 or 6.00 ea.
>
> The Wiz
>
>
>
Yo Wiz, the only problem with that is if can only get 60 or so people out
of 200 to sign the registry that I run for the Olds list (and this is for
free!!), then what makes you think that you can get 100 people to commit
to buying a CD for 5 or 6 bucks?  I for one, if this was offered, would
probably buy 2!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:07:33 -0400
Subject: F heads

The casting number on the F head is 40443(?)  The last digit is probaly a
three, but may be a six or an eight.

There was a glob of iron cast into the last digit.

I also found several sets of J heads this morning, and got a pair.  If one
is good, I'm off and running again.
Yes that's sets, and yes it was several.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 12:20:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Olds and Johnny Law

In 1974 I was driving 60 in a 55 zone with my air shocks pumped to the
max. I had this a**hole on my back bumper following way too close. Just
as I was getting ready to show him what a 455 Olds could do, this guy
turns on his red light. To my suprise it was one of our counties finest.
To his suprise, the back of my Olds started lowering itself to the stock
ride height. When he came to the window he was mad and giving me h*ll
for going too fast. That was the only time I was ever stopped for going
5 over on a state highway. I think he was going to ticket me for bumper
height as was popular among law enforcement in this area at that time,
but he never said a word about it. I had a Delco Jac-Pac 175 system on
the car. It had a vaccuum operated pump under the hood and a dial
control with gauge under the dash. The idea was to adjust the air shocks
when towing or not towing from the drivers seat. That night it was worth
the extra money over standard air shocks.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:05:51 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 catalytic convertor

     No effect.  There aren't any computer sensors or controls after the O2
     sensor.  Anything downstream is fair game.

     If it were legal to buy used cats out of junkyards I'd get one in a
     second and hollow it out.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: '86 442 catalytic convertor Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    12/6/96 12:05 PM


Hey guys,

 Thanks for all the help.  I'm starting finals week so I probably won't try
any
 o
f this till later.  To test my convertor can I just undo the pipe and drive it
 do wn the road a little ways to see if that helps.  I did this on my Impala
when I t hought the orirginal 200,000 mile muffler was stopped up.  Man what a
 difference going from a stopped up single exhaust to a dual exhaust with
flowmasters.  Anyho w, (chasing rabbits here) if I unhook it would effect the
computer in anyway?

Thanks
Steve Cannon


------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:20:19 -0400
Subject: Other Paper of interest to the 1932 Olds

Red,

I also have the 1931 Fisher body manual, the 1932 suppliment and the
convertible coupe top mechanism suppliment.  I also have the 1928 to 1931
Fisher Body service manuals (missing 2 or 3) and they really do give a good
idea of the woodwork.

As a suggestion.  If you are not a master craftsman in making wood parts I
would do one of two things in your case.  I would re-wood a much more common
car that yours, first.  It will give you some experience with the woodwork,
and having done a couple (with help) I can assure you it's a lot harder than
the jig saw puzzle it looks like.  Actually, on a car this scarce, only
about 1200 6 & 8 combined, I would have the wood done professionally. It
will cost several thousands of dollars, but probably well worth it in the
long run.

I have a '30, a '31 and two '32 Fisher Body cabriolets, and all need a
magician with wood.  I have a magician, and he is so good he could do this
work on a professional basis.  It's just that he only does wood work when he
isn't building GM minivans in Wentzville, or working on his own 1930's.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:17:27 -0400
Subject: Re: F heads

>The casting number on the F head is 40443(?)

It should be 404438

>I also found several sets of J heads this morning, and got a pair.  If one
>is good, I'm off and running again.
>The Wiz

Hey Anon.,

You're using J heads over F heads?  Are you aware that the J's are the
common as dirt, smogger heads from '73 to '76 big blocks?  They've got small
valves and restrictive ports.  The F's are 1970 W-30 heads.  They *should*
have hardened, press in ex valve seats.  I would scrap the J's and use the
F's.  Watch for an E head ground to look like an F.  From the casting number
you have, though, they do appear to be genuine F heads.

If you don't want the F's, I'll give you $100 for them.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:27:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Saving the good stuff

At 04:03 PM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, C.R.F. wrote:
>
><Biggest SNIP I've done all day !!>
>
>> If you really think the CD idea is viable.  I understand that the least
>> expensive way to do it is have it done, professional production.  The
master >> costs several hundred dollars, and the copies a buck or two.  100
copies >> should therefore come in about about $5.00 or 6.00 ea. >> >> The
Wiz >> >> >> >Yo Wiz, the only problem with that is if can only get 60 or
so people out >of 200 to sign the registry that I run for the Olds list (and
this is for >free!!), then what makes you think that you can get 100 people
to commit >to buying a CD for 5 or 6 bucks?  I for one, if this was offered,
would >probably buy 2! > >Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling, >Clayton
Pierce, >zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu > > I sort of agree.  I intended it to be a
informational post only, as an alternative means to the same end.  However if
you can get the master and 100 copies for $600. and you only sell 30 they
still only cost $20. which is the cost of writeable media, according to an
earlier post on this thread. I'd buy one or two too, and would like to see it.
You need to presell them and see if it's worth doing at all.  Also, I think it
would need a search engine, and should be fairly well a full disc.  Removing
the mail headers would save some space too, and it would be a lot better than
the alternative of hands full of floppies.

The Wiz


------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:24:44 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality (in paint)

OldsHeidi@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to pipe in here on the subject of paint.... (see below)
>
> *********
> .Oldsmobile's position is that if a consumer had a concern with paint on
> their car we would inspect the concern through the body shop manager and
> determine the concern.  If it was something that the customer could not have
> prevented we would review the concern for assistance.  There are NO Recalls
> for paint, recalls are for safety and emission items only and just as with
> any concern outside of warranty we will review a paint concern on an
> individual basis.  Some things we look at, age, milage, ownership, concern,
> maintenance....If you have a concern with your vehicle you need to have an
> Oldsmobile retailer review the paint concern we will then review that
concern > on an individual basis for assistance. > > > Sincerely, > Heidi
Magyar > I took it to the dealership; which I din not frequent as I do all my
own work.  I spoke to a salesman who referred me to the maintenance
supervisor.  The maintenance supervisor looked the car over & wrote up a
report for Chrysler.  About 2 weeks later, I was called about an appointment &
we were in business.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:14:47 -0400
Subject: Re: SB Exh. manifolds (was: Bill K. speaks the truth)

At 05:13 AM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>     I've often wondered if there were better flowing exh. manifolds that
>     might fit my 307 G-body.  I've seen rundowns here of which big-block
>     manifolds are preferable, but never small block manifolds.
>
>     Anybody know?  Perhaps there were good-flowing ones on 403 equipped
>     cars?

No, the 403's were the same as all other small-blocks (i.e. not very good).
I think all left-side manifolds are the same, but that there are some
special-purpose dual-exhaust right-hand manifolds, though I don't know what
they would have come on. Many Olds small-blocks with dual exhausts used the
single-exhaust right-hand manifold, with one opening capped off.

You could use big-block manifolds on the left side, but the A-body manifolds
want to go right where the oil-filter adapter sits on the right side. A
Toronado right-side manifold would clear the filter mount, but the exhaust
pipe would probably have to be routed through the glovebox! Maybe a B or
C-body manifold would fit, either dual or single exhaust.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:33:39 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 catalytic convertor

At 09:05 AM 12/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     No effect.  There aren't any computer sensors or controls after the O2
>     sensor.  Anything downstream is fair game.
>
>     If it were legal to buy used cats out of junkyards I'd get one in a
>     second and hollow it out.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: '86 442 catalytic convertor
>Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    12/6/96 12:05 PM
>
>
>Hey guys,
>
> Thanks for all the help.  I'm starting finals week so I probably won't try
any
> o
>f this till later.  To test my convertor can I just undo the pipe and drive
it >do wn the road a little ways to see if that helps.  I did this on my
Impala when >I t hought the orirginal 200,000 mile muffler was stopped up.
Man what a >difference going from a stopped up single exhaust to a dual
exhaust with >flowmasters.  Anyho w, (chasing rabbits here) if I unhook it
would effect the >computer in anyway? > >Thanks >Steve Cannon > > > I
think I remember seeing a catalog of exhaust parts where they had a pure dummy
c.c.  It was just a straight thru pipe with the c.c. shell around it. I have
no idea if this is legal in Ecuador, but likely it isn't here.

Anon.

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:39:02 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Ryan Hehn wrote:
>
> > Can anybody tell me the general breakdown of G-body VIN codes? About all
> > I can identify is the engine code, and I was wondering what else is
> > easily determined.
> >
> > My Cutlass Supremes have the following VINs:
> >
> > 2G3GR47H5G2315974 - the '86
> 2 = Canada
> G = GM
> 3 = Oldsmobile
> G = passive restraint ?
> R = Cutlass Supreme
> 47 = 2 door hardtop coupe
> H = engine code (don't remember right now) 3.8l maybe?
> 5 = check digit (Olds' way of making sure VIN is real
> G = year 1986 A - 80 B - 81 etc.
> 2 = manufactured in St. Therese, PQ, Canada
> 315974 # off the assembly line.
>
> > 2G3AM47J2B2468425 - the '81
> 2 = Canada
> G = GM
> 3 = Oldsmobile
> A = non-passive restraint ?
> M = Cutlass Supreme Brougham
> 47 = 2dr. Hardtop Coupe
> J = engine code 307 maybe?  Don't remember.
> 2 = check digit
> B = year 1981
> 2 = manufactured in St. Therese, PQ, Canada
> 468425 = # off the assembly line
>

Thanks to Clayton, Charley and Matt for the replies!

I'm surprised that the '86 was produced in Quebec...  It's strange
because when I went to the dealer recently, one of the guys at the parts
counter entered the VIN in the computer and told me it was produced in
Morraine, Ohio!   Does anyone know if there was ever a plant in
Morraine???  Unless as someone mentioned, the coding was changed in '82
and the plant codes were changed...

As for the engine codes,
		J - 267 Chev v/8
		H - 305 Chev v/8

307's (code Y) are a rare find in a Canadian Cutlass...

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:42:09 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

> Matt Mayer wrote:
>
> > Charley,
> >   You were right on most accounts except the 4th digit(at least for the
> > '81).  My '82 Service manual lists the fourth digit as designating a
> > restraint system (seriously!):
> > A- Non-passive/Active Belts - Standard
> > B- Passive/Automatic Belts  - Sales Code A77
> > C- Passive/Inflatible retraints - Sales Code AR3
> >

It designates a restraint system???  I didn't think there was any choice
in the matter...

Passive/Automatic Belts???  I'd like to see a G-body with these!

Passive/Inflatible restraints??? What?!!

Something doesn't seem right here... Or is it just me?

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <spitts@law1.law.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:42:54 -0400
Subject: '70 paint codes

I'm getting ready to have some work done on my '70 olds and would like to
know what specific color of gold I should have it painted.  Anyone know
where I could get this information?  Plate on cowl says 55 (I think-don't
have it in front of me).
Susan Pitts
University of Virginia
School of Law
580 Massie Road
Charlottesville, VA  22903-1789
stp8n@virginia.edu
924-4768

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:46:05 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 442 catalytic convertor

Hey Tom,

Find the junkyard that is the most remote from town.  Go up to the guy in
charge, and ask him how much he would sell you a length of exhaust pipe
for if he included the catalytic convertor for free.  If he gives you a
price, then you've got a cheap cat.  If he says "can't do it, that's
illegal" he'll probably laugh, and you can say you were joking and ask
where you might find a master cylinder or something.  I've actually done
this before, and ended up buying a cat for my friend's Cutlass for $25
(got a nice piece of exhaust pipe out of the deal too :-)   ).  I know
that this is sort of illegal, but I bet they did it that way just so that
some idiot wouldn't go buy a completely worn out cat and put it on his
car only to have it catch fire a few months down the road.  I don't think
that any true car-lover would even think about putting a high-miles cat
on one of their cars.  Enough justification for now,

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:

>
>      No effect.  There aren't any computer sensors or controls after the O2
>      sensor.  Anything downstream is fair game.
>
>      If it were legal to buy used cats out of junkyards I'd get one in a
>      second and hollow it out.
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ > Subject: '86 442 catalytic convertor >
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET > Date:    12/6/96 12:05 PM > >
 > Hey guys, > >  Thanks for all the help.  I'm starting finals week so
I probably won't try any >  o > f this till later.  To test my convertor can
I just undo the pipe and drive it > do wn the road a little ways to see if
that helps.  I did this on my Impala when > I t hought the orirginal 200,000
mile muffler was stopped up.  Man what a > difference going from a stopped up
single exhaust to a dual exhaust with > flowmasters.  Anyho w, (chasing
rabbits here) if I unhook it would effect the > computer in anyway? > >
Thanks > Steve Cannon > > >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:41:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Recessed valves, carbon

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> > Years ago, GM used to sell a product that was used as a tune-up
> > solvent, but I do not know if it is still available.  You would
> > pour it down the carb throat(engine smoking all the way) and as
> > you got to the last of the can, you would flood the engine until
> > it stalled.  Turn off key, let soak under deposits, put in new
> > plugs, complete tune-up, fire it up, and drive it for at lease 1/2
> > mile to end the smoking.  I remember it was effective, but I can't
> > say that the water didn't work just a well.
>
> I have a 1973 "generic" auto repair manual the describes a
> similar procedure, but using ATF or other solvents like Marvel
> Myster Oil or Berryman B-12. The funny part was, as they said
> "... then start the car up and run the engine until all the
> solvent has burned out.  When you can see out the rear window
> again, you're done."  Heh, heh.  Aparently it's quite a fogger.
> I've never tried it myself.
>
> - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
> --
> Travis McWaters


Travis,

I have used this technique W/ATF many times.  It is a fogger all right.
It works wonders on engines that have set up for a while or sticking
valves.  I know that many of you won't try it, but you don't know what
yoiu can do for only $1.00.  It has never hurt anything & has helped
most of the time.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 1932 Oldsmobile paper

> I have a full line sales brochure,
> 1932 dedicated owners manual,
> 1932 dedicated body parts manual,
> 1932 edition of the chassis parts manuals,
> dedicated 1932 accessories catalog.  There is a company that Xeroxes from

Okay, NOW I'M JEALOUS!

My ENTIRE Oldsmobile paper collection consists of:
'1974 Delta 88/98 Owners manual
'1974 Various other stuff
'1996 Several copies of the new FAQ :-)

Although I DO have an owners manual and a shop manual for a 1952 Mercedes
Benz, and also a bunch of '72 Mercury/Ford stuff.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:52:45 -0400
Subject: Delco Jac-Pac...was Re: Your Olds and Johnny Law

	*snip*

> 5 over on a state highway. I think he was going to ticket me for bumper
> height as was popular among law enforcement in this area at that time,
> but he never said a word about it. I had a Delco Jac-Pac 175 system on
> the car. It had a vaccuum operated pump under the hood and a dial
> control with gauge under the dash. The idea was to adjust the air shocks
> when towing or not towing from the drivers seat. That night it was worth
> the extra money over standard air shocks.
>
	It's funny you should mention this setup.  I was poking around my
favorite junkyard this summer when I found an old Plymouth (66-67?) that
had a little pannel mounted under the dash with a little pressure guage
and knob, that had a Delco label on them.  Wondering first what it was,
and second, what Delco equipment was doing on a Plymouth, I did some more
poking around on the car.  I found the pump for the shocks under the
hood, and the shocks still on the car, amazingly enough.  It looked almost
factory, (very weird) and thats why it stuck out in my mind.  When I
checked on it a month or so later, the guage/adjustment knob was removed
from under the dash (they beat me to it :), but the rest of the stuff was
there.  Probibly still is.  Pretty cool setup, although I'm still not sure
what it was doing on a Plymouth....

				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:55:26 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Ryan Hehn wrote:
> > G = passive restraint ?
Was this right?  Does you '86 have air-bags or automatic seat belts or
something?

> Thanks to Clayton, Charley and Matt for the replies!
Your welcome!  Glad to help.

> Morraine, Ohio!   Does anyone know if there was ever a plant in
> Morraine???  Unless as someone mentioned, the coding was changed in '82
> and the plant codes were changed...
Even if they had, the VIN starts with the number 2 so the car HAS to be
Canadian.


>
> As for the engine codes,
> 		J - 267 Chev v/8
> 		H - 305 Chev v/8
>
> 307's (code Y) are a rare find in a Canadian Cutlass...
Ooops, forgot, Canada = no Olds engines :-(


>
> Ryan Hehn
> ryanh@docker.com
>
>
>
>

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:00:51 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Honestly, from everything I've heard, this is correct, except I've always
heard that A = non passive, and G = passive.  And yes, it was a choice.
Passive restraint has been around for a while, airbags were an available
option for the '74 Delta 88 I used to own (although mine didn't have it) and
it was also an option for my '72 Mercury (again, mine doesn't have it).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Ryan Hehn wrote:

> > Matt Mayer wrote:
> >
> > > Charley,
> > >   You were right on most accounts except the 4th digit(at least for the
> > > '81).  My '82 Service manual lists the fourth digit as designating a
> > > restraint system (seriously!):
> > > A- Non-passive/Active Belts - Standard
> > > B- Passive/Automatic Belts  - Sales Code A77
> > > C- Passive/Inflatible retraints - Sales Code AR3
> > >
>
> It designates a restraint system???  I didn't think there was any choice
> in the matter...
>
> Passive/Automatic Belts???  I'd like to see a G-body with these!
>
> Passive/Inflatible restraints??? What?!!
>
> Something doesn't seem right here... Or is it just me?
>
> Ryan Hehn
> ryanh@docker.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:00:04 -0400
Subject: 403

There's a guy at work who claims he's got an Olds 403 with solid main webs.
I'm going to check it out next week.  I'll be sure to take pictures & video
if it's real.  I have my doubts; he doesn't really seem to know what he's
talking about.  He wants $300 for it, and if it's got SMW's, I'll probably
buy it.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:15:39 -0400
Subject: **IMPORTANT INFO ON REGISTRY/CONTACT LIST**

Sorry to shout, but this is important.  Due to technical difficulties
(THE IDIOTS AT MY SITE DELETED THE WHOLE THING!!!!) The registry will be
down for about a week.  I fortunately had the whole registry backed up on
disk-- now to find the disk :-(  When it does come back it will be on a
different site!!!

Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:44:39 -0400
Subject: Welcome RedRock (was:  New On The Oldsmobile List)

>You just stumbled on the most interesting group of Oldsmobile enthusiasts
on the
>net.  I can't wait to read of your progress on the list as time goes on.

Yes, ditto that all!  :)  Seriously, tho, I too am really impressed with
your fleet.  Definately something to be proud of.  I'm an Olds man at heart
(ask anyone!) but am ~almost~ equally impressed by Buicks.  I've got a '57
Buick Special 4 door hardtop sitting back at the farm.  Ran when it was
parked, which was the year I was born.  It doesn't run now, and is in pretty
rough shape, but someday...  Those old 364's were supposed to be really
impressive for those land-yachts, too.  I know a few of them came with the
Dual 4's, and I found an ad for one a while back, but passed.  Just too far
away, yet.  Anyway, if you have pictures and want to increase your bragging
rights, mail Bryceman, (www.442.com) and he'll set you up a page there.  If
you haven't checked out the page, by all means, do it!  It's a ~must-see~
event!  If your '70 is a #2, or even anywhere close to it, it would go great
there, and the rest of the lineup would supplement it quite well.  Heck,
it's gotta look good there, the Rockit's probably a #5 on it's better
(washed) days, and it made it there! :)

Since you're new to the list, you probably haven't heard much about Project
Olds Craft.  The vast majority of the list's members are sending in pictures
of their Olds (and Buicks, where applicable :-) along with their stories, to
Car Craft, to prove to the editors that there is much more to live than
Camaros and Mustangs.  (Much, MUCH more...  Like ~beating~ Camaros and
Mustangs!)  We are all mentioning something about the internet, and the Olds
list, and Bryce's page (442.com) that brought us all together and provided
us all with such vast knowledge, etc.  The plan was to get these all out in
the mail around Dec. 1.  I'm a bit behind, and you may be at a slight
disadvantage if you don't have pics ready (although they are optional) but
we aren't in trouble yet.  The idea is to flood them with Pro-Olds letters
all at once; more of a striking effect.  Anyway, enough about that.  Good
luck on your engine...  Later, and Welcom aboard!   :)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:44:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Olds and Johnny Law

 "where ya flying in such a hurry lad,
>let me see your pilots license!"  So I gave it to him.  He was dumbfounded.
>Threw it back into the car, and said, "get the h*ll out of here, and don't
>let me catch you again!"

Heh, heh...  I like that!  A local high school kid had gotten one of those
DARE bumper stickers, ya know, the ones that say DARE...To keep cops off
donuts...  Donut Abuse and Rotundity Elimination.  He had this sticker on
the driver's ~door~ of his pickup!  He got pulled over for an MIP one night
(at least he ~should~ have gotten one, but he got lucky!)   Cop never said
anything about the sticker, but I guess he was sure looking at it funny!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:44:42 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

>  You were right on most accounts except the 4th digit(at least for the
>'81).  My '82 Service manual lists the fourth digit as designating a
>restraint system (seriously!):
>A- Non-passive/Active Belts - Standard
>B- Passive/Automatic Belts  - Sales Code A77
>C- Passive/Inflatible retraints - Sales Code AR3

Yeah, that sounds right, it's been a while, ya see...


>Also Digit 9 is listed a "Check digit" Whatever that means.
>10 is model year (L='81)
Is this a typo?    ^^^^^ Cuz I know "B"='81.  L might be the '91, though
(unsure) because I think they skipped "I"  They went progressively from "A"
in 1980.

>11 is plant code  M=Lansing, MI
>		  2=St. Therese, Quebec
>	          X=Fairfax Kansas
>		  E=Linden, NJ
>The remaining 6 are the serial number or "Plant Sequential Number" in
>GM-ese

Yep, that sounds right to me.  I've no idea what the Check digit is, either,
although I know mine's a "9" FWIW....


>Remember this is for '82, I think the coding changed after this....

I think the biggest change was the bodycode change from A-body to G-body in
'82.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 21:42:46 -0400
Subject: Re: **IMPORTANT INFO ON REGISTRY/CONTACT LIST**

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> Sorry to shout, but this is important.  Due to technical difficulties
> (THE IDIOTS AT MY SITE DELETED THE WHOLE THING!!!!)

And people wonder why I hate to admit I'm in computers.
The whole business is rampant with dorks.

> I fortunately had the whole registry backed up on disk

Good boy!

> When it does come back it will be on a different site!!!

Good choice.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 21:48:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 1932 Oldsmobile paper

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> > I have a full line sales brochure,
> > 1932 dedicated owners manual,
> > 1932 dedicated body parts manual,
> > 1932 edition of the chassis parts manuals,
> > dedicated 1932 accessories catalog.
>
> Okay, NOW I'M JEALOUS!
> Although I DO have an owners manual and a shop manual for a 1952
> Mercedes Benz, and also a bunch of '72 Mercury/Ford stuff.

Well if we're goimng through the trash bin, I have...

1905 Franklin Types A, B, E, F
19?? Winton Six, Model 17, Book of Diagrams
19?? Pope Toledo Type V
1913 Cadillac Instructions, Care and Operation
1918 Maxwell Instruction Book

Anybody got the cars to go with 'em?   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:10:52 -0400
Subject: Check Digits  Was: G-body VIN codes

buehner wrote:
>
> I've no idea what the Check digit is, either...

I don't know the exact details of GM's use of check digits, but if anyone
wants to know what they are and how they work (in general), speak up.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:33:34 -0400
Subject: Re: '70 paint codes

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Susan Pitts wrote:
> I'm getting ready to have some work done on my '70 olds and would like to
> know what specific color of gold I should have it painted.  Anyone know
> where I could get this information?  Plate on cowl says 55 (I think-don't
> have it in front of me).

Hi Susan, and welcome back...

I can't find my info on 1970 models, but in '69 the code "SS" (not 55)
would have been for a shade called Palomino Gold, DuPont code #5064L. It
might be the same since they often carried over colors for several years.
I'm sure someone here can confirm the exact code for 1970, though.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:07:44 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Ryan Hehn wrote:
>
> > Matt Mayer wrote:
> >
> > > Charley,
> > >   You were right on most accounts except the 4th digit(at least for the
> > > '81).  My '82 Service manual lists the fourth digit as designating a
> > > restraint system (seriously!):
> > > A- Non-passive/Active Belts - Standard
> > > B- Passive/Automatic Belts  - Sales Code A77
> > > C- Passive/Inflatible retraints - Sales Code AR3
> > >
>
> It designates a restraint system???  I didn't think there was any choice
> in the matter...
>
> Passive/Automatic Belts???  I'd like to see a G-body with these!
>
> Passive/Inflatible restraints??? What?!!
>
> Something doesn't seem right here... Or is it just me?
>
> Ryan Hehn
> ryanh@docker.com
Ryan,

  sounded weird to me, but remember, the VIN codes were for all
Oldsmobiles of that year..maybe Toro's were available with passive
restraints...straight-jackets Maybe?

- ---Matt "Ducking for cover.." Mayer
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MMayer@InterAccess.Com                 | Matt Mayer VM: (800) 481-1323 
		
| "Well, that was interesting......"

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:44:56 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Matt Mayer wrote:
>
> ...maybe Toro's were available with passive restraints
> ...straight-jackets Maybe?

That's unfair!  There certainly isn't any truth to the rumor that all
Toro-heads are nuts.  And don't send any more post like this ever again.
It's a pain trying to type responses with this pencil in my mouth.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:54:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

Toro-Heads:

Since we have so many new members, I thought I might bring
them up to date on Dr. Kalkhoff's laterst research:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO ALL:

A MUST read for all who think they are infected, are carriers, or
otheriwse desire to prophylactically avoid this alleged condition.

Since I feel partially responsible for the recent "outbreak" of the
alleged T-Virus, I have conducted an investigation/research project.
Myself, in conjunction with the CDC (Center for Disease Control),
Toronados Anonymous, Oliver Stone, and several leading
Auto-Epidemiologists have sought out to determine the etiology of said
virus in order to disspell myths, rumor, inuendo, and hopefully
de-stigmatize the car collecting public.

I have purposely been quiet on this issue, until now, in order to collect
unskewed data and otherwise reduce the amount of researcher influence.
Further, this study was conducted in the double-blind format to exclude
researcher bias and data manipulation.

STUDY OVERVIEW & ABSTRACT

Purpose:
To determine the causative agent(s) as it relates to human behavior when
exposed to Oldsmobile Toronados.

Benefits:
To attain piece and harmony among all Oldsmobile enthusiasts regardless
of model.

Population Studied: (Target Group)
Using Systematic Random Sampling    k=n/mn    k=3.7
General Motors automobile owners n=47
Toronado owners n=29
Oldsmobile owners (regardless of model) n=82
Total number of population sampled n=158

Control Group:
Ford owners n=55

Standard Deviation:
sd=.23

Statistical Error:
se=.78

Bivariant Inferential Parameter:
Not significant (as I have no clue what it is!)

Samples taken:
28 cc venous blood
Throat culture
Sputem culture
Urinalysis
Scrapings from underneath fingernails

Family History also Taken:

RESULTS: (as compiled by the Boss Kettering Insitute of Reciprocating
Engines)

IN TARGET GROUP:
No Viral, bacterial, prionic, or otherwise pathogenic organsims were
found.

Genetic (DNA & RNA recombinates) show an abnormal grouping and close
association with the proximal intellengence allele in the Toronado owner
sub-group only.

Family history reveals a careing and loving upbringing where artisitc,
mechanical, and appreciation are fostered. (This demonstated accross the
GM line)

Extreme mechanical aptitude and predisposition to memorize countless part
numbers and interchange indsexies. This was remarkedly pronounced in the
Olds "all other" group that exludes Toronado.

IN CONTROL GROUP:
No data was useable as the Ford owners could not fill out questionaire.
Also blood samples, in most cases, were deemed tainted...... as the blood
alcohol levels were extrordonarily excessive. Also no genetic samplings
could be assayed as to the confounding influences of Neandrathillic
retro-coupleing.

THEORIES/HYPOTHESES
The Oliver Stone Theory was disregarded for in his conclusion he states,
"It's obviously a conspiracy. The Order of the Pacific Rim has poisoned
the US drinking water with a virus that alters the psychie of Olds
enthusiasts to seek out all Toronados, painstakingly rebuild them, and
sell them to rich Japanese businessmen for peanuts who will eventually
corner the market on them and inturn sell them back to us at 25 times the
original price, thus garnering money to control global economies."
<----he is whacked!

CDC's RESPONSE:
"We are too damn busy trying to come up with an AIDS vaccine for such
dribble"

TORONADOS ANONYMOUS RESPONSE:
Unfortunatley no members could be contacted as they live in traveling
bands roaming from junk yard to junk yard looking for that elusive
rustless body and parts to keep them on the road to continue thier quest!

MY PERSONAL FINDINGS

To each, his own! Although we do seem to be a miss-understood group. We
are innocuous and mean no harm to any car form.... (within the Oldsmobile
line that is).  Collectively, we seek colaboration and brotherhood among
all Olds enthusiasts, as we are all family in many ways. If anything, the
only thing that is infectious around here is our sprit and affection of
the Toronado.

I'm sure there will be other studies done, and I encourage the prospect.
Perhaps there may be other interesting theories on the subject.  (:

Dr Greg Kalkhoff


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> > Morraine, Ohio!   Does anyone know if there was ever a plant in
> > Morraine???  Unless as someone mentioned, the coding was changed in '82
> > and the plant codes were changed...
> Even if they had, the VIN starts with the number 2 so the car HAS to be
> Canadian.

I was looking at the computer screen when the parts guy pulled up the
info on my car.  It had two countries of origin listed - US & Can.  What
he told me was that the car was built in the US for the Canadian market.
Perhaps the '2' in the VIN code indicates the intended market only??

I'm pretty sure the VIN on my Dad's '81 Delta 88 begins with a 2 also.
His car has a 307, and we know it was US built.

I guess I'll have to do some more checking on this issue...

As far as finding no Olds powered G-bodies up here, well I've seen a
few...  Almost went to look at one when I was looking last year, but it
was too far away to be convenient so I ended up with the 305 powered
car. I have to say, it has been a very reliable engine.  Equivalent
power to the 307 easily.  (if you can actually say an 80's v/8 has
power!)

Thanks again,

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:20:55 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> Honestly, from everything I've heard, this is correct, except I've always
> heard that A = non passive, and G = passive.  And yes, it was a choice.
> Passive restraint has been around for a while, airbags were an available
> option for the '74 Delta 88 I used to own (although mine didn't have it) and
> it was also an option for my '72 Mercury (again, mine doesn't have it).
>

I'm very surprised to hear that airbags were available way back then...
Honestly I'm having difficulty believing it!  I'd sure like to see one
of these older cars equipped with an airbag, just to convince myself...

Not too sure what the differences between passive and non-passive are...
Think you could enlighten me?

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: kelleyll@enter.net
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:47:37 -0400
Subject: Thanks to Padavano, Culp, Beaulieu

Thanks for helping me with the engine detailing tips on our '65
Cutlass F-85. By the way the firewall on this car is semi-gloss
black.
  I'm going to unsubscribe for now to keep my daughter happy.
  She said that she never had received so much E-mail before.
  If you're interested in an unusual disc brake conversion _ read my
other E-mail.
  Thanks again,
  Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:57:32 -0400
Subject: Re: New On The Oldsmobile List

In a message dated 96-12-06 06:02:10 EST, you write:

> I live in Sangamon County, Illinois; about ten miles from Springfield.

Good news!  The OCA National Meet will be in Springfield in 1998.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:57:36 -0400
Subject: Re: '70 paint codes

In a message dated 96-12-06 19:40:55 EST, you write:

> Hi Susan, and welcome back...
>
>  I can't find my info on 1970 models, but in '69 the code "SS" (not 55)
>  would have been for a shade called Palomino Gold, DuPont code #5064L. It
>  might be the same since they often carried over colors for several years.
>  I'm sure someone here can confirm the exact code for 1970, though.

Code 55 in '70 was Galleon Gold.

They also offered Code 58 Burnished Gold (darker shade),  Code 63 Copper (but
that doesn't really fall under the Gold category) and 53 (?) Nugget Gold at
extra cost.

Did you ever get any information on the Miss America cars?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:57:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Check Digits Was: G-body VIN codes

In a message dated 96-12-06 19:33:45 EST, you write:

> I don't know the exact details of GM's use of check digits, but if anyone
>  wants to know what they are and how they work (in general), speak up.
>
>  The 66 Toro and Mike
>

I posted this once before, but I can do it again.  Hope I can explain that I
don't confuse anybody.

>From what I understand from working in GM dealerships, all GM VINs since 1980
use the check digit.  Every character in a VIN has a numeric value.  The
value of all the characters makes up the value of the VIN.  This is mainly
used for computer purposes (data entry and such).  I think all VINs need to
have the same value for a computer to accept them, so a check digit was added
to make up the difference between the other 16 characters and the total VIN
value.  Understand?  I used to enter warranty claims and my terminal would
let me know if I had entered and incorrect VIN.  It didn't know that the VIN
was wrong, it just knew that it didn't add up to the right value.  Sorry I
don't know what that value (or the character values) are.  Of course, there
were times that you could enter an incorrect VIN with the correct value and
then the factory would reject the claim because they didn't have a matching
VIN in their system.  This would usually occur when I couldn't read the hand
written number and had to guess.  If I had two or three digits wrong, it
could still come to the right value by luck.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 22:54:07 -0400
Subject: Early Airbags (was Re: G-body VIN codes)

At 07:20 PM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> Passive restraint has been around for a while, airbags were an available
>> option for the '74 Delta 88 I used to own (although mine didn't have it)
and >> it was also an option for my '72 Mercury (again, mine doesn't have it). 
>
>I'm very surprised to hear that airbags were available way back then...
>Honestly I'm having difficulty believing it!  I'd sure like to see one >of
these older cars equipped with an airbag, just to convince myself...

I knew of the application of airbags in the early and mid-70's Oldses
(weren't they the first GM maker to get them?). The reason you don't see
them around is that they were a $1000 option; quite a bit on a $5000 car!
(how many Taurii would have airbags if they cost $4000 today?).

I didn't know that they were an option on the '72 Merc, though. What was the
first use of airbag in a production passenger car?

Another thing that is older technology, but strikes people as a recent
development, is antilock brakes. I've heard of the '70 Toro using them, but
also recall hearing that they were optional on the rear on full-size '68
Ford wagons. Oh, and of course, for All-wheel drive, there was the Jensen
Interceptor FF in 1970.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Shannon <pb236795@oak.cats.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:10:58 -0400
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile pb236795@oak.cats.ohiou.edu

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:37:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

Mike and Sparky,

You guys have *way* too much free time on your hands...

;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:51:30 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Latest Data on Toro-Virus


...Extreme mechanical aptitude and predisposition to memorize countless
part numbers and interchange indsexies...
                             ^^^^^^^^^
                             Is this some kind of subliminal thing? ;)
Dr Greg Kalkhoff


     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:56:04 -0400
Subject: Re: '70 paint codes

In a message dated 96-12-06 18:47:23 EST, you write:

<<  Plate on cowl says 55 (I think-don't >>
paint code 55 is called Galleon Gold Poly.  use basecoat and clearcoat
urethane
instead of the enamels and lacquers.  It is a superior product. I just
painted my
car with it back last December and the paint looks sweet.

W MACHINES(Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:03:16 -0400
Subject: A Sticky Question

I'm in the process of reassembling my 72 Cutlass. Everything is going
well, but I may have a problem with the engine. I have been checking the
#1 engine cylinder with compressed air (through the plug opening). I
found that it is leaking into the block while at TDC. I suspect that the
rings are stuck. The engine has 11,500 original miles on it, but it
hasn't been driven in at least a year. Does anyone have any suggestions
on how to solve this problem without dissassembling the engine?

JR

72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 02:19:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Early Airbags (& ABS)

> I knew of the application of airbags in the early and mid-70's Oldses
> (weren't they the first GM maker to get them?). The reason you don't see
> them around is that they were a $1000 option; quite a bit on a $5000 car!

Cadillac offered airbags from '74 - '76 on all models except convertibles
and limousines.  It was a $225 option for a car costing over $7500.  I
believe 1974 was also the first year Olds offered airbags.

> Another thing that is older technology, but strikes people as a recent
> development, is antilock brakes. I've heard of the '70 Toro using them, but

I've read somewhere that L^nc*ln offered an anti-skid braking system called
"Sure-Track" in 1970.  GM's version, Trackmaster Skid-Control, was
available from '71 - '76 on certain Cadillac models.  Both systems
functioned on the rear wheels only.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 02:14:33 -0400
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

At 04:03 AM 12/7/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm in the process of reassembling my 72 Cutlass. Everything is going
>well, but I may have a problem with the engine. I have been checking the
>#1 engine cylinder with compressed air (through the plug opening). I
>found that it is leaking into the block while at TDC. I suspect that the

Does it leak a lot or a little? If you squirt a bit of oil into the
cylinder, does it leak less?

No regular rings are going to give you a 100% perfect seal; there will be
some leakdown, the only question is how fast it is leaking down. If you
can't hold any air pressure in there, then yes, you have a serious problem.
If it just leaks out over time, then I'd say it's normal.

>rings are stuck. The engine has 11,500 original miles on it, but it
>hasn't been driven in at least a year. Does anyone have any suggestions
>on how to solve this problem without dissassembling the engine?

The gasoline treatments mentioned in posts lately claim to be able to do
just what you want. I can't say for sure that it works, but that's exactly
what they claim.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 04:48:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> Toro-Heads:
>
> Since we have so many new members, I thought I might bring
> them up to date on Dr. Kalkhoff's laterst research:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> TO ALL:
>
> A MUST read for all who think they are infected, are carriers, or
> otheriwse desire to prophylactically avoid this alleged condition.

AARRGGHHH! I don't believe you saved that moronic babble! Much less
re-published it!

Boy, was that fucker riddled with spelling errors. Even "I" noticed them.

Maybe I'll clean it up and stick it on the FAQ.

That was one of the first pieces I wrote when I joined the list!

Half hammered.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'z

(snore)

Rip
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 04:59:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

Greg Kalkhoff wrote:

> Boy, was that %@^*$ riddled with spelling errors. Even "I" noticed
them.-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Olds List:

My appologies to all. That was meant to be a private post to Mike.

Again, I am very sorry for that erroneous post.

Sparky (who is very embarrassed)  ):
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:41:24 -0400
Subject: FRAMES...  can you all tell me somethin'??

Ok,  Here is the situation...

47 and 81 oldsmobiles...

cutting off the 2 front ends and swappin' the frame / suspension and puttind
(oops, thats putting) in an Olds 455.

Can I hear what kinda  LEGAL  aspects I am facing if I should travel from
one state to another with this kind of alteration?  and How about any
information from our neighbors to the north and south of the USA on this
matter? I Havn't done the cutting on the 47 olds yet until I get the info.  I
want to have the car completed for august 97, so there will be a lot of the
midnight oil burning to get this goin'...   Any tips in general about the
Laws and / or on any technical aspect of the process is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

sincerely,

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Oldsruns@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 03:59:25 -0400
Subject: Re: New On The Oldsmobile List

I seem to have found a dozen or so clubs related to Oldsmobile, from one for
the Curved Dash to one for the 4-4-2, and several that seem to be for Olds
enthusiasts in general.  Whch one is the best to join?  Good publications,
lots of pictures and such!  Including the one mentioned, OCA.

Red

------------------------------

From: Oldsruns@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 04:06:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 1932 Oldsmobile paper

I suppose I should get them all.  If the sales brochure is in color, can the
xerox place do color?

My brothers and I decided to restore the 1932 for my dad before he passes on.
 I think your suggestion of using a professional wood shop for the woodwork
is a very good idea.  Can anyone suggest a good one.  I'm capable of the
mechanical work, with the aid of a good automotive machine shop.

Also, do any of you junk yard searchers know of a 1932 Olds parts car in any
of  them?  Or anywhere else for that matter.  I expect that I am many years
to late for this vintage.

Red

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:17:59 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

 And don't send any more post like this ever again.
>It's a pain trying to type responses with this pencil in my mouth.   ;)

Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad, but they won't let him sharpen it!  :)

Actually, I think the straight jackets were for the rear-seat occupants (aka
mother-in-law!) to prevent them from harming the driver when displaying
excessive amounts of horsepower!  (I seem to recall there's actually a
citation like that on the books!)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: kelleyll@enter.net
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:33 -0400
Subject: F-body to A-body Disc brake swap

>From Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa
  Yes you can swap '70-'81 F-body spindles, rotors, and calibers to
'64-'72 A-body cars.
  You need special ball joints and outer tie-rod ends and off-set
upper control arm shafts.
  'Hot Rod' did an article back in June, 1987 about a company by the
name of H-O Racing Specialities, 4708 Marine Ave., Lawndale, CA
90260. Tele. (310) 973-7078 Who made this swap.
  They also added 1-1/4'' sway bar up front and 1'' on the back, new
polyurethane bushings. H-O
claimed that the F-body spindles were taller and would change the
geometry of the front end. This would raise the roll-center from 2''
below ground to 2'' above ground. Camber is changed from +1/2 to
- -1/2, caster is changed from +1/2 all the way to -3-1/2!
Hot Rod tested a '64 GTO before and after. The after test had 16''
wheels and peformance tires. This car was put on a skid pad and
recorded a .96G which was equal to the newest Vette and better than a
IROC!
  I personally made the change on a 67 Chevelle (I also have a '65
F-85) and would have to say that the change was startling different.
I had to relearn to drive the car. This suspension is very fast and I
had to add a faster steering box from a '72 Cutlass.
  My only problem is that I can stop so fast that my oil light comes
on. I will have to get a baffled oil pan.
  I bought my parts from H-O. They also sent me a reprint of the Hot
Rod article.
  Anyone who is not worried about originality and want a good
cornering car should check this out. Like I said the difference is
startling.
  Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa

------------------------------

From: kelleyll@enter.net
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:34 -0400
Subject: F-body to A-body Disc brake swap

>From Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa
  Yes you can swap '70-'81 F-body spindles, rotors, and calibers to
'64-'72 A-body cars.
  You need special ball joints and outer tie-rod ends and off-set
upper control arm shafts.
  'Hot Rod' did an article back in June, 1987 about a company by the
name of H-O Racing Specialities, 4708 Marine Ave., Lawndale, CA
90260. Tele. (310) 973-7078 Who made this swap.
  They also added 1-1/4'' sway bar up front and 1'' on the back, new
polyurethane bushings. H-O
claimed that the F-body spindles were taller and would change the
geometry of the front end. This would raise the roll-center from 2''
below ground to 2'' above ground. Camber is changed from +1/2 to
- -1/2, caster is changed from +1/2 all the way to -3-1/2!
Hot Rod tested a '64 GTO before and after. The after test had 16''
wheels and peformance tires. This car was put on a skid pad and
recorded a .96G which was equal to the newest Vette and better than a
IROC!
  I personally made the change on a 67 Chevelle (I also have a '65
F-85) and would have to say that the change was startling different.
I had to relearn to drive the car. This suspension is very fast and I
had to add a faster steering box from a '72 Cutlass.
  My only problem is that I can stop so fast that my oil light comes
on. I will have to get a baffled oil pan.
  I bought my parts from H-O. They also sent me a reprint of the Hot
Rod article.
  Anyone who is not worried about originality and want a good
cornering car should check this out. Like I said the difference is
startling.
  Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:13:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

Greg Kalkhoff wrote:
>
> Olds List:
> My appologies to all. That was meant to be a private post to Mike.

Aw, you're too modest Sparky.  It was originally
posted on Fri, 12 Apr 1996 to the Olds List.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:53:08 -0400
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

First of all every engine will leak air past the ring s into the block.
This is why when doing a leakdown test there are 2 guages and you must see
the difference between the 2 guages to determine your leakage rate.

Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: A Sticky Question
> Date: Saturday, December 07, 1996 4:03 AM
>
> I'm in the process of reassembling my 72 Cutlass. Everything is going
> well, but I may have a problem with the engine. I have been checking the
> #1 engine cylinder with compressed air (through the plug opening). I
> found that it is leaking into the block while at TDC. I suspect that the
> rings are stuck. The engine has 11,500 original miles on it, but it
> hasn't been driven in at least a year. Does anyone have any suggestions
> on how to solve this problem without dissassembling the engine?
>
> JR
>
> 72 Cutlass S
>

------------------------------

From: oldsman <oldsman@innercite.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 05:31:42 -0400
Subject: Re "F" heads

I'll go $600 if the heads are genuine.
          oldsman@innercite.com   Russ Jones

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:57:27 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

buehner wrote:
>
> >It's a pain trying to type responses with this pencil in my mouth.
>
> Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad, but they won't let him sharpen it!  :)

Yup.  No sharp objects.  Except the Toro, of course.

> Actually, I think the straight jackets were for the rear-seat occupants
> (aka mother-in-law!) to prevent them from harming the driver when
> displaying excessive amounts of horsepower!

You never met my mother-in-law!  A gag would be more useful.  The day I
met her, I told her to shut-up.  She jumped out of the car and I left her
on the side of the road.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:57:27 -0400
Subject: Re: G-body VIN codes

buehner wrote:
>
> >It's a pain trying to type responses with this pencil in my mouth.
>
> Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad, but they won't let him sharpen it!  :)

Yup.  No sharp objects.  Except the Toro, of course.

> Actually, I think the straight jackets were for the rear-seat occupants
> (aka mother-in-law!) to prevent them from harming the driver when
> displaying excessive amounts of horsepower!

You never met my mother-in-law!  A gag would be more useful.  The day I
met her, I told her to shut-up.  She jumped out of the car and I left her
on the side of the road.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:23:21 -0400
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

Hmm..When I changed the valve guide seals on my car I used compressed air
to hold the valve in place. With 65-70 psi it actually moved the piston
down(causing a loss in pressure). I would try to run a compression test
or better yet a leakdown test to see if your rings/valves are bad..

Was the car well cared for?? I was given a '76 Pinto in college w/ 9k
original on the clock that had zero power.. after tearing down the motor
I noticed that the rings, skirt and ring lands were totally destroyed..
The motor had more sludge in it than some 150k plus motors I have seen!!!
After talking to the orig owner (who had given me the car) I found out
that it had never been serviced!!! after 13 years...I surprised it ran
all the way to my house..

I think it would be a good idea to pull the valve covers or maybe to
flash a light down the oil fill tube to see if its clean...especially if
it flunks the compression/leakdown test..

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, JR wrote:

> I'm in the process of reassembling my 72 Cutlass. Everything is going
> well, but I may have a problem with the engine. I have been checking the
> #1 engine cylinder with compressed air (through the plug opening). I
> found that it is leaking into the block while at TDC. I suspect that the
> rings are stuck. The engine has 11,500 original miles on it, but it
> hasn't been driven in at least a year. Does anyone have any suggestions
> on how to solve this problem without dissassembling the engine?
>
> JR
>
> 72 Cutlass S
>
>

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:36:08 -0400
Subject: Pearl Harbor Day

I would like to suggest to all you Oldsmobile gear heads out their, and do
what I'm about to do.

"Whats that", you ask; "why celebrate Pearl Harbor of course."

How, "lets all go out and get bombed."

Anon.

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:57:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Data on Toro-Virus

> Sparky (who is very embarrassed)  ):


Red-Faced?  Sweaty?  INFECTED!!???

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:26:28 -0400
Subject: Re: F-body to A-body Disc brake swap

At 03:30 PM 12/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>From Tom Lesniak, Reading, Pa
>  Yes you can swap '70-'81 F-body spindles, rotors, and calibers to
>'64-'72 A-body cars.
>  You need special ball joints and outer tie-rod ends and off-set
>upper control arm shafts.
>  'Hot Rod' did an article back in June, 1987 about a company by the
>name of H-O Racing Specialities, 4708 Marine Ave., Lawndale, CA
>90260. Tele. (310) 973-7078 Who made this swap.

I have also heard that the '73-'77 spindles can be used for the swap. I am
interested in this, because I already have a pair and would like to use them
on my SX. I have tried contacting H-O racing, but nobody ever picks up the
phone; what is their current number? I'd even go for an address and mail in
a request for info.

If this swap were possible, it might be a great source for disc on these
A-bodies, since all '73-'77 A-bodies had discs standard.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #395
********************************
 
