To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/19/96 05:45:32 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #372


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 19 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 372


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:55:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a friend who said to me a long time ago not to get a Toro since
> they had a history of leaking.  Is this true?

Nope! No flames either!

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:55:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Pet cock

At 08:42 PM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am in the process of pulling a 455. I don't know if the previous
owner >used antifreeze or not and I want to drain the block. The
radiator and >associated plumbing is gone but I can't find the pet cock
on the engine. >Does it, in fact, exist? Where is it? I need to know
cause winter is coming. > >chuck > > There is no petcock on the motor
proper.  Removing the lower radiator hose should drain the engine, if
the car is level, or nose down.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:19:01 -0400
Subject: no longer a pig in the corners

I installed a 1.25 inch front anti-sway bar on the Vista-Cruiser this
weekend.  It was salvaged from a `75 Trans Am for $35.  I gotta say it
helped the car's handling immensely, I'm very impressed.  The car still
rolls just a little in the corners but it doesn't wallow like it did
before. The ride is somewhat firmer on uneven pavement but highway ride
is about the same.  I was amazed at how much a beefy front sway bar
affected the rear of the car, it's staying level in the corners now too
despite the lack of a rear sway bar (next on the list of suspension
upgrades.)  Some of the handling improvement probably came from the fact
that the end links are tighter now, they were not tightened enough on
the old bar.  I was surprised to find that my car allready had a 1" sway
bar when I actually measured it, I was really expecting 7/8.

The bar was such an improvement I had to say something.  I'm gonna start
dusting the CRXs in the corners too now. :)

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:59:48 -0400
Subject: Flight Time part duex!!

Just wanted to throw out a really big thanks to all who found such good
info about avgas.  I haven't used any more of it, cuz right now I really
don't need it. (-25 wind chill, +8F right now!  Brrrrrrrr)  It was kind
of a pain in the butt to pump, since the nozzle was larger than most
regular pumps had been.  For the first time in my life I didn't cuss the
previous owners who had cut out that restriction in the tank...  I'm
armed with much more knowledge about the stuff, now, so thanks again!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:59:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

>Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a friend who said to me a long time ago not to get a Toro
since >> they had a history of leaking.  Is this true? > Just the
occasional puddle of light under the dash...  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu (Melissa Dawn Barberree)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:13:16 -0400
Subject: Looking for Seatbelt ('70 442)

I purchased a '70 4-4-2 a couple of days ago, and it needs a driver's
side shoulder belt in "galleon gold."  Can anyone help me out?

Thanks,
Luke Hogan
- --

'70 4-4-2 (porcelain white with gold striping)
'70 4-4-2 (olive green, in the process of restoring)
'72 4-4-2 (donor car)

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:18:59 -0400
Subject: Re: More Auto Acronyms

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, C.R.F. wrote:

> Someone should start a book.

   Here's one I just heard yesterday:

 MOPAR - Motor On Pavement After Race

> Cliff Feiler

Uh-oh, here comes the car acronym cascade again...  ;^)

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:35:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Car Acronyms List (Long)

I don't think I've seen MGB yet.

More Garbage <from> Britan

------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:49:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Pet cock

At 11:37 PM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I just pulled a 455 out of 70 delta, tore it down and found no pet cock
on >the block but I would imagine if you drain as much out as you can
and leave >the system open it should be alright. Although, I live in
Indian Rocks Beach >Fla. and I've got the windows open and ceiling fans
on hi tonite, good luck >its a GREAT motor!

Which reminds me of yet another question: the 455 I am currently
rebuilding comes from a '68. It is going into my '72 Ninety-eight. The
gas cover on the '72 says to use unleaded gas only, raising the question
about whether the '68 used regular or unleaded (no unleaded gas warnings
on cover of '68). If regular, what modifications will I have to make to
be able to use unleaded, if any? I am new at this . . .

chuck

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:03:01 -0400
Subject: Rebuild for Unleaded

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Chuck Rowe wrote:
> Which reminds me of yet another question: the 455 I am currently
rebuilding > comes from a '68. It is going into my '72 Ninety-eight. The
gas cover on the > '72 says to use unleaded gas only, raising the
question about whether the > '68 used regular or unleaded (no unleaded
gas warnings on cover of '68). If > regular, what modifications will I
have to make to be able to use unleaded, > if any? I am new at this . .
.

If you're rebuilding the engine anyway and having work done on the
heads, the ideal thing to do would be to have the machine shop install
hardened vavle seats which will handle unleaded gas better and prevent
valve recession. There is some debate about the absolute need for this,
but if the heads are off it's probably worth doing. I hear it costs
about $150 or so. According to the FAQ, hardened seats became standard
equipment around 1971 or so.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "bemet" <bemet@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:26:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Looking for Seatbelt ('70 442)

There's a guy who advertises in Hemmings who makes shoulder belts. He's
out of Ohio and his ad has been in the Oldsmobile section under seat
belts. I was able to buy front and rear shoulder belts for a 71
convertible (turns out BOTH front and rear shoulder belts were options).
He doesn't advertise every month, but  I think he was in there within
the last month or 2. If you can't find his ad, and you're still looking
let me know, and I'll look for it for you.

- ----------
> From: Melissa Dawn Barberree <mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Looking for Seatbelt ('70 442)
> Date: Tuesday, November 19, 1996 2:13 AM
>
> I purchased a '70 4-4-2 a couple of days ago, and it needs a driver's
> side shoulder belt in "galleon gold."  Can anyone help me out?
>
> Thanks,
> Luke Hogan
> --
>
> '70 4-4-2 (porcelain white with gold striping)
> '70 4-4-2 (olive green, in the process of restoring)
> '72 4-4-2 (donor car)
>

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:40:24 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

On Nov 18,  5:15pm, WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> Subject: A very sad story about fire
> I have a friend here in Michigan that works for the YMCA.
> He owns a 72 442 convertible small block car.
> Since he has owned it, he has had two accidents
> with the car trashing the OAI hood.  But to no
> avail, he kept on rebuilding the car to show
> condition.  On Friday, a 1986 Ford Tempo caught on
> fire and also caught the car next to it on fire.  The
> car next to the Tempo :( yes the 72 convertible.
> The hood melted, the interior is gone and the body panels
> are warped.  This car is toast.  Thank goodness, that he has
> insurance on the car, but nothing can replace the good times
> with the car cruising and all the labor on rebuilding a pristine
> car.   Thought all you should know a sad story with no happy
> ending.
>
> W MACHINES
> (Mark Prince)
>
>-- End of excerpt from WMACHINES@aol.com


 	Mark - Who's car is it? Do we know him?

cooler ta cruise,                                _   _
                                                 _| | |
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick \/\/ _| |_| red

             (MCORNEA@pt8228.pto.ford.com)

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:07:37 -0400
Subject: RE: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5DF.F7878E20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



- ----------
From: 	Lloyd Culp[SMTP:bculp@hiwaay.net]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 19, 1996 2:43 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> Anyone else getting mail bounced from KURT W MANNING
> <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu> right back to them? I just got a bunch
of > messages that I sent yesterday as undeliverable (glad they didn't
go back to > the listserver! Been there, hated that...). >
_______________________________________________________ > Dr. Robert
Barry

Bob,

I got several to me.  Didn't he pay his electric bill or something?  Is
Michigan on strike again?  I never can figure what those Yankees are up
to next.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jefferson Davis.

He's dead, you know.

dj...from SOUTH Dakotah

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5DF.F7878E20
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IicMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgAB
BJAG
ADgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFEAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmd
bgDd
AQ9UAgAAAABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNoZWJ1Y3RvLm5zLmNhAFNNVFAAb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjaGVi
dWN0
by5ucy5jYQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAGgAAAG9sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ29sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EnAAIBCzABAAAAHwAAAFNNVFA6T0xEU01PQklMRUBDSEVCVUNUTy5OUy5D
QQAA
AwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAPaPQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3Nv
ZnQg
TWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAwAAAAUkU6IE9LLCBLdXJ0LCB3aGF0IGlzIHVwIG92ZXIgdGhl
cmUg
aW4gTWljaGlnYW4AyQ8BBYADAA4AAADMBwsAEwAGAAcAJQACACUBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcLABMA
BgAH
ACEAAgAhAQEJgAEAIQAAADEzNkQ0NkZCQkY0MUQwMTE4MjBBMTAwMDVBMUUzN0E4AP4GAQOQ
BgA8
BQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKD9cEES1rsBHgBw
AAEA
AAAwAAAAUkU6IE9LLCBLdXJ0LCB3aGF0IGlzIHVwIG92ZXIgdGhlcmUgaW4gTWljaGlnYW4A
AgFx
AAEAAAAWAAAAAbvWEkFp+0ZtFEG/EdCCChAAWh43qAAAHgAeDAEAAAADAAAATVMAAB4AHwwB
AAAA
GgAAAEdFT0xTVVJWL0dFT0xTVVJWL0Rlbm5pc0oAAAADAAYQ8Lv1cgMABxBUAgAAHgAIEAEA
AABl
AAAALS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006TExPWURDVUxQU01UUDpCQ1VMUEBISVdBQVlORVRTRU5UOlRV
RVNE
QVksTk9WRU1CRVIxOSwxOTk2Mjo0M0FNVE86T0xEU01PQklMRUBDSEVCVUNUTwAAAAACAQkQ
AQAA
AKYDAACiAwAALQYAAExaRnWUzfBF/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbD
AoMy
A8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQ
CwoU
UTUL8mMAQCAKhQqLbGkIMTgwAtFpLTE0njQN8AzQHNMLWTE2CqDrA2AT0GMFQC0e9wqHHavr
DDAe
dkYDYTof/h52DIIEIEwVoHlkIEN1AGxwW1NNVFA6BGJjJCFAaGl3YdBheS5uEcBdH58grS8G
YAIw
Id8i61QKUHNkpSVQLAewb3YT4GIEkBggMTkqUCsAOTYg0DI6NDMUsE0lzyCtnFRvKA8i6wbw
ZHME
YBJiAxBlQBFwZWJ1hR7AbyVwcy5jYSwPcSbedWJqHrEuLyLrUlJlNABPSypQSwhwdB0qUHcR
gAVA
BAAgdXD3L/AqkAXAdDDAFhA3AAOg5E1pEXBpZwBwGv8cA/wzNh13GkUedggAKsEFQJBKLiBC
CsBy
eTawNR6COgqFPhrmPaBBbiZ5AiA4AGVsEbAgZ+URwHQLgGcgAMADEQbgaHVuYwmAIANSNlBV
EFJU
IFcF0EFOTihJTkc9NzxBJUtAgz+SEbBydjEuZgSQNwUQMVAJgHU9oAUQZ2hVBUBiANBrN7Bv
N7Jt
wD8gSSBqdRPAPwBZHpAgYT/QQAFoL/Bm8z03B4FzYT8QBCA3wDbh50VgEbACMCB5B5AT0Asg
9yVQ
RgA3IW4NsBwwN4EBoPEwgCAoZwtgI/A3wTyw4GRpZG4nRbJEdj03vTfBIBwwE8BDAgSQITxg
vwnh
N7QqUDbRQDFH0i5O8PQpLj03X0/fUO9R/1IxeT03RHI8UDvVPHQ43EL9MFAsONxFYEXSEbBJ
wgMg
/0TRB4A8UFPASwRMoQqwPLDfJRAEID7AHrEFEGM/0AMQ+wMgBbFzA3ARwCUQGRBFQP1FUHMK
hThW
L/ADoBPABRDeazgAR4ALcVsCICWAN4L3MXADoBygZwhwOAA2wzfA+m8+4VkAcFzAB5EKwDgA
7zdA
CoVE0SWAeE7gVO1aAnskEgqFRAWQNuAIcCpQQc8LYESAAMA43FBTWBICIL9LMQJgY9Bf8TFQ
WCBX
OADudh6RQEEFsUoNwQSQWnAxA6BEYXZDoTjcSGU+JwQgDbBKcCpQPnB1IJBrbm93YR1kak7x
QUBj
U09VVEhnoWv5HpBhaDlPOl8ehQqFFTECAG/AAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMCBU/D4S
1rsB QAAIMCBU/D4S1rsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAABeiA==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5DF.F7878E20--

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:40:04 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

Our Fearless Leader Greg spaketh:

> If memory serves, those Tempos and a bunch of other Fords were
recalled > for fires originating somewhere in the ignition system. As I
recall the > circumstances were just as described - the car need not be
running or the > key on; it would just ignite due to short circuits.

I recall hearing about this in the Spring '96 timeframe... wasn't it
something to do with the ignition switch harness in the steering column?
And isn't Ford being a bit recalcitrant about replacing them; i.e.,
they'll only do it going back to '88, even though the problem manifests
itself in much earlier model years?

Geez, talk about Ford ==> F***ed On Raw Deal; if it wasn't poorly
grounded gas tanks sparking up from a static charge buildup, it's these
smoking time bomb steering column wiring haresses.

I'd feel much safer in a GM pickup with saddle gas tanks than any F**d
product, my Dad's Tom Car included :)

> I gotta get an extinguisher soon!

A wise $10 - $20 insurance investment :)



Tim (Who also Has an Extinguisher Mounted in Big Red) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:11:31 -0400
Subject: Re: A very sad story about fire

I said:
> I'd feel much safer in a GM pickup with saddle gas tanks than any F**d
> product, my Dad's Tom Car included :)
                    ^^^

That *shoulda* been "Town Car", not Tom...  and his name ain't Tom,
neither! :)




Tim (As Good with a Keyboard As Bill Buckner is with Baseballs)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen' '91
Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:18:05 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jefferson Davis.
>
>

I'm originally from California, in 1860, we just didn't give a sh*t! :-)

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:17:50 -0400
Subject: Re:

A 1970 cutlass has four tail-lights, two at each end of the bumper. They
rectangular with the long sides pointing up and down. 1969 and 1970
models have rectangle front turn signal lenses while 1971 - 1972 (or
something like that, I am not sure when these changed) all had circular
lenses... Before I bought my car someone had stolen the front turn
signal lenses so it was up to me to find some to get it back on the
road. I couldn't find any anywhere so I ended up using some Suzuki
Sidekick turn signals - they didnt fit perfectly but they got my
inspection sticker.


Marc Westerlind
1970 cutlass supreme


>From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Mon Nov 18 18:00 EST 1996
Date: 	Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:56:30 -0400
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re:
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ok I am confused.  When looking at the rear tail lights of a 68 442,
they are thin and the bumper has slight idententations to expose them.
This I know.  On 69's was the tail lights longer from top to bottom
with more cut out from the bumper? On 70's what were they?  The reason
I am asking is that whenever I see an Old on the road I can't tell what
year it is.  Any telltale signs I can employ?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:32:17 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
>
> I'm originally from California, in 1860, we just didn't give a sh*t!

WOW!  That must make you the oldest guy on the list.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:16:42 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster


<First part of David's terrible Sunday snipped>

> Get it home . . . shut it down, had run ok.  Remove ******* brittle
plastic > oil gauge line and tee for idiot light sensor, reinstall
idiot light

<Rest of how David solved his near disaster snipped>

<First part of Tim's near disaster snipped>

... no, the idiot light isn't hooked up. I never got aroung to replacing
 the sensor that the previous owner yanked to put in the line for the
gauge -- he didn't want to take the time to do it right and find
another point to hook it up.

<Rest of Tim's story snipped>

          First, I've run the cheap plastic line on several cars with
          no problems.  Yes, you have to take the time to properly
          route it like any other plumbing/electrical run.  I have had
          good success with heating the plastic tube in boiling water
          to soften it and straightening it out prior to installation.
          (be sure to protect your hands when pulling it out -
          otherwise you might be forced to sue McDonalds ;)).

          As for the best way to hook up both the gauge and the light
          (for either mechanical or electrical gauges), all I've ever
          done is buy some 1/8" NPT fittings from the local hardware
          store to allow me to connect both to the one oil pressure
          tap on the front of the block.  Unlike the coolant temp
          sensor, the oil pressure sensor does not need to be in the
          actual oil passage.  All I've had to do is buy a ~2" nipple
          and a "T" fitting.  Screw the nipple into the block and
          screw one top leg of the T onto the nipple.  The idiot light
          sensor goes into one leg and the gauge sending unit or tube
          goes into the other.  Just remember to use Teflon tape on
          the threads.

          While we're on the topic of oil pressure sending units,
          here's a neat tip for running an electric choke or an
          electric fuel pump:

          In either case, you don't want the unit to be "on" if the
          engine isn't running.  Electric fuel pumps especially use an
          oil pressure sensor to shut off the flow of fuel if the
          engine dies.  Rather than having a multitude of oil pressure
          switches cluttering up your engine, get the sending unit
          from a Chevy Vega _without_ gauges.  This car had an
          electric fuel pump and the sending unit has three terminals.
          The center terminal is the normal oil pressure idiot light
          sender.  The two end terminals are a pressure switch which
          can be used to power your electric choke or fuel pump.
          (actually, with the advent of EFI, there are probably a lot
          of different variations of this sending unit on the market
          now).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:53:15 -0400
Subject: Vega Engines (was: Auto Sayings (WAS e: More Auto Acronyms))

...Way back when, Chevrolet built a thing called a Chevette (we still
live with it's special A/T transmission, the TH 200) which had the
pistons running right in an aluminum block....

          Are you sure you don't mean the infamous Vega with it's
          linerless aluminum block and cast iron head?  I may be in
          the minority, but I think the linerless design of the Vega
          engine is wrongly accused of causing that car's
          well-documented oil-burning problem.

          This design was based on an aluminum alloy which contains
          silicon carbide particles.  The theory is that after you
          bore and hone the cylinder to the final diameter, the bores
          are chemically etched to remove a thin layer of the
          aluminum and leave only the silicon carbide.  In this way,
          the rings ride on the hard silicon carbide material and
          don't wear the aluminum.  The fact that this block
          construction technique has since been used on many
          production Porches and Mercedes, not to mention a number of
          490+ ci Can Am motors, leads me to believe that the
          linerless design was not the problem.

          The real cause of the premature oil burning was the design
          of the block casting, not the material.  In a attempt to
          hold down the production costs of the Vega engine, GM tried
          an innovative new casting process (for an engine block,
          anyway) - die casting.  Keep in mind that normal engine
          blocks are sand cast, which allows complex internal cooling
          passages to be fabricated but obviously requires additional
          labor to form, install, and remove the sand cores during
          the casting process.  Die casting uses a permanent mold,
          saving all this labor, but obviously cannot be used to form
          passages which are completely enclosed.  The problem was
          how to form the cooling jacket around the cylinder walls.

          The solution was to use an open deck design.  If you've
          ever seen a Vega block with the head removed, you would
          notice that there is a gap between the cylinder wall and
          the deck surface; the cylinder is only attached to the
          block at the bottom of the bore!  This cantilevered
          cylinder design pretty much guaranteed that as you torqued
          the head in place, the cylinder would move around.  Not
          having the bore centerline parallel to the piston rod
          pretty much ensured that the engine would exhibit premature
          wear and oil burning.  It's interesting to note that SCCA
          racers using Vegas would weld supports between the cylinder
          wall and the deck surface to stabilize the block prior to
          machining - with fantastic results.

          I took a different route, by installing an aluminum BOP 215
          in place of the stock 4 cyl (had to get that Olds thread in
          there somewhere).  Unfortunately none of this fixed the
          Vega's other highly publicized problem:  its desire to
          return to its base elements as quickly as possible.  My 72
          Vega wagon was an original California car and never left So
          Cal in its lifetime, yet I had to get rid of it when I
          could see the ground through the tops of the fenders!  (OK,
          I did live in Hermosa Beach)

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:00:53 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:

> zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> >
> > I'm originally from California, in 1860, we just didn't give a sh*t!
 > > WOW!  That must make you the oldest guy on the list.   ;)

Yep, now if only I'd kept that curved dash.  ;)
(said while holding gums over teeth to replicate a "toothless" sound)

The '84, '81 Cutlasses,
'80 Rover, '72 Mercury, and Clay   :-P


>
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>      (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:03:47 -0400
Subject: Re: no longer a pig in the corners

I installed a 1.25 inch front anti-sway bar on the Vista-Cruiser this
weekend...

          Greg,

          Glad to hear of the improvement.  Yes, stiffening the front
          will have an overall beneficial improvement to the feel of
          the car.  Keep in mind, however, that stiffening the front
          bar without changing the back will make the car understeer
          even more (understeer = front of car leaves the road first,
          oversteer = back of car leaves the road first, neutral
          handling = car slides off the road sideways :)).  The
          addition of the back bar will make an even bigger
          difference.  The addition of a 442 rear bar to my 68 VC (I
          retained the stock 1" front bar) was a dramatic improvement
          (along with the addition of BFG T/As on SSII rims).  Good
          Luck

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:15:33 -0400
Subject: aero hurst

I was reading the article on the FE3X Cutlass on Charley Buehner's web
page and the picture of the Cutlass had ground effects that reminded me
of the Areo Hurst kit that was offered from Hurst in '88.
I saw a couple of cars with this at the Olds Nationals this summer and
also heard that something like only 500 were made.  I was wondering if
anyone had any information about this styling kit, ie. how many were
made, is it still available, or if some other company makes a similar
package?
Thanks,
Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@flash.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:38:02 -0400
Subject: test

test

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:44:48 -0400
Subject: Re: aero hurst

I was reading the article on the FE3X Cutlass on Charley Buehner's web
page and the picture of the Cutlass had ground effects that reminded me
of the Areo Hurst kit that was offered from Hurst in '88.
I saw a couple of cars with this at the Olds Nationals this summer and
also heard that something like only 500 were made.  I was wondering if
anyone had any information about this styling kit, ie. how many were
made, is it still available, or if some other company makes a similar
package?

*****
Bill,

I believe that I still have an original press kit from Hurst on this
in my file cabinet at home.  As I recall from the time, production
was very limited.  Several of us in the Hurst/Olds Club considered
purchasing a kit, just for future resale, but I don't know that
anyone did.  I seriously doubt that Mr. Gasket has any of them left
in a warehouse somewhere, but you never know.  I think that the press
kit contained an order form.  If you're really interested, I'll try
to remember to pull it out and provide all the details.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: Joe Nall <joe@nall.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:36:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Looking for Seatbelt ('70 442)

bemet wrote:
>
> There's a guy who advertises in Hemmings who makes shoulder belts.
He's out > of Ohio and his ad has been in the Oldsmobile section under
seat belts. I > was able to buy front and rear shoulder belts for a 71
convertible (turns > out BOTH front and rear shoulder belts were
options). He doesn't advertise > every month, but  I think he was in
there within the last month or 2. If > you can't find his ad, and you're
still looking let me know, and I'll look > for it for you. > How do the
front shoulder belts attach/work?  I have a 70 Cutlass conv. that
currently does not have front (or rear) shoulder belts and would like to
add them.

Joe Nall - joe@nall.com

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:48:28 -0400
Subject: Re: no longer a pig in the corners

. . . The addition of a 442 rear bar to my 68 VC (I retained the
stock 1" front bar) was a dramatic improvement . . .

*****

And if those don't do the trick for you, Pontiac used to use front
and rear bars which were even larger in diameter than those which
Oldsmobile used.  I did that conversion on the '72 442 W-30 I owned
between 1972 and 1976 and the improvement in handling was quite
noticable.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:04:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Rare(?) 1979 Hurst Olds Sighting

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>

>Did you happen to get a look at the interior?  If so, did it have the
>Cutlass Calais reclining buckets and the Hurst Dual Gate shifter?
>The gold paint and even the H/O emblems would be fairly easy to add
>to a regular Cutlass Calais, but those Dual Gate shifters are hard to
>find and the cover plate for the console would be almost impossible.

I did glance inside but only really noticed that it had bucket seats,
a club on the steering wheel and it looked like someone was
living it in (lots of junk in the back seat).  Didnt know enough to
look for the Dual Gate.

>I doubt that the striping between the two body colors would be
>correct on a replica either, since some of those parts were out of
>stock by about 1982.

There was just a single gold pinstripe set off from the edge of the
large gold blocks.  It looked painted on, not a decal.  The  paint
color between the gold stripe and the gold blocks was the same
cream color.

>      Maybe I could check to make sure I still have
>my extra emblems and cover plate . . .      I always thought about
>building a replica on a cruiser body, or an El Camino with a Cutlass
>nose grafted on.

A H/O El Oldsmino would look pretty cool.  Dont forget to drop in
an Olds 350. :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:03:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> My vote for best looking? The '68, of course... :)

Overall I think :-))))))

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:13:36 -0400
Subject: Re: no longer a pig in the corners

Greg Pruett wrote:
>
> I installed a 1.25 inch front anti-sway bar on the Vista-Cruiser this
> weekend.  It was salvaged from a `75 Trans Am for $35.  I gotta say it
> helped the car's handling immensely, I'm very impressed.  The car
still > rolls just a little in the corners but it doesn't wallow like it
did before. > The ride is somewhat firmer on uneven pavement but highway
ride is about the > same.  I was amazed at how much a beefy front sway
bar affected the rear of > the car, it's staying level in the corners
now too despite the lack of a > rear sway bar (next on the list of
suspension upgrades.)  Some of the > handling improvement probably came
from the fact that the end links are > tighter now, they were not
tightened enough on the old bar.  I was surprised > to find that my car
allready had a 1" sway bar when I actually measured it, > I was really
expecting 7/8. > > The bar was such an improvement I had to say
something.  I'm gonna start > dusting the CRXs in the corners too now.
:)

Ok folks.  I have seen a lot of stories about what people have done to
spruce up their cars.  It's confession time!  How much do you have in
your cars.  I'll go first since I started this topic.

ca $4000, $1000 purchase price 1968 442 post coupe

Chris Sparks

I trying to see if their is an end to the spending. :-)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:24:18 -0400
Subject: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses

> Ok I am confused.  When looking at the rear tail lights of a 68 442,
> they are thin and the bumper has slight idententations to expose them.
> This I know.  On 69's was the tail lights longer from top to bottom
> with more cut out from the bumper? On 70's what were they?  The reason
> I am asking is that whenever I see an Old on the road I can't tell
what > year it is.  Any telltale signs I can employ? > > Chris Sparks


Chris,

As you know the 68 taillights are much different from the rest.  I will
attempt to represent the rest with drawings below.

In 69, each tail light was a single vertical rectangular light in the
bumper.

 _                        _
| |                      | |
| |         69           | |
|_|                      |_|

In 70, they were two separate vertical taillights in the bumper (same as
69, but now two instead of one).

 _   _                _   _
| | | |              | | | |
| | | |     70       | | | |
|_| |_|              |_| |_|

In 71, they were two separate horizontal taillights in the bumper (looks
like a 70 in the horitontal plane, instead of vertical).

 _____                _____
|_____|              |_____|
 _____      71        _____
|_____|              |_____|

In 72, they were like the 71's, but each rectangular lens now had three
"egg-crate" sections to it.  they were still horizontal, and at a long
distance, you'd have a very hard time telling a 71 from a 72.

 _____                _____
|_|_|_|              |_|_|_|
 _____      72        _____
|_|_|_|              |_|_|_|


At least, that's my interpretation of tail lights on Cutlasses!
- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew
Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/_____________________________________________
_____

------------------------------

From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:26:07 -0400
Subject: RE:  Weatherstrip Source?

Does anyone have a source for roof rail weatherstriping for a 79
Cutlass? Thanks for your help... It is getting a bit drafty.  :-) AL


 "The Viking"
  PGP Public Key Available by E-Mail Request

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:30:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega transmission

. . . I had assumed that the transmission was a TH-350 since I
haven't seen any reference to TH200's in pre-78's.  When we had the
drivetrain out of the car, I noticed the transmission was stamped
'METRIC'.

Were there metric transmissions in '77?  Or maybe it was replaced
along the way?  I'm hoping that if it is metric, that it's a
THM350...

*****
Ryan,

I worked at Hydramatic's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant from 1976 until
1981 and I have some bad news for you.  If the oil pan on your
transmission is stamped "METRIC", it's a THM200.  As I recall, these
went into production at about the same time I hired in.  You may have
some of my parts in that transmission, so heaven help you.  You're
probably going to need it.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:34:32 -0400
Subject: mech. oil gauge install (Re: Weekend almost disaster)

On two of my cars, I am using a mechanical oil pressure gauge with
the plastic tubing.  On my Olds, its been in installed for nearly
10 years now.   Here's an idea that might make your installation
a little safer: I routed the plastic hose through a rubber
vacuum hose the from gauge to sending unit.  This protects it from
sharp edges, getting kinked, or any damage that might occur while
I'm working under the hood.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:39:52 -0400
Subject: Re: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses

Andrew A. Senko wrote:

> As you know the 68 taillights are much different from the rest.  I
will > attempt to represent the rest with drawings below. > > In 69,
each tail light was a single vertical rectangular light in the bumper. >
 >  _                        _ > | |                      | | > | |
69           | | > |_|                      |_| > > In 70, they were
two separate vertical taillights in the bumper (same as > 69, but now
two instead of one). > >  _   _                _   _ > | | | |
| | | | > | | | |     70       | | | | > |_| |_|              |_| |_| > >
In 71, they were two separate horizontal taillights in the bumper (looks >
like a 70 in the horitontal plane, instead of vertical). > >  _____
_____ > |_____|              |_____| >  _____      71        _____ >
|_____|              |_____| > > In 72, they were like the 71's, but
each rectangular lens now had three > "egg-crate" sections to it.  they
were still horizontal, and at a long > distance, you'd have a very hard
time telling a 71 from a 72. > >  _____                _____ > |_|_|_|
|_|_|_| >  _____      72        _____ > |_|_|_|              |_|_|_| > >
At least, that's my interpretation of tail lights on Cutlasses!

Thanks

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:37:13 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: no longer a pig in the corners


I trying to see if their is an end to the spending. :-)

          Doesn't finishing the car defeat the purpose?  I always
          figured that these are just model car kits in 1:1 scale.
          Something about telling the men from the boys by the price
          of their toys...

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:40:11 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Dennis Johnson wrote:
>
>
>
>
> PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jefferson Davis.
>
> He's dead, you know.
>
> dj...from SOUTH Dakotah

Dennis,

Dead men hold office here in the South.  A good man is a good man, no
matter what physical disabilities he may have.

Bill Culp
decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:49:08 -0400
Subject: Re: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses


          Drew,

          Good one.  Excellent drawings.

          I just wanted to clear up something from previous posts.
          The 70 back bumper is unique to that year (just as in 68 and
          69).  The 71-72 back bumpers are identical, as are the
          taillight housings.  The only difference is in the plastic
          lenses.  I suspect this is due to the strike GM experienced
          in 71.  The new 73-77 style A-body cars were actually due
          out as 72s, but the strike delayed the introduction and
          forced GM to spruce up the 71s to look new as 72s.  As a
          result, you will notice many parts which are interchangeable
          between the 71 and 72 Cutlass/442 (this is before Detroit
          got away from annual styling changes) which were model-year
          unique in prior years.  Front and rear bumpers, hood, and
          grilles are just some of the similarities.  Take the grilles
          as an example.  The 71 and 72 442 grilles are the same - the
          71s are painted black and the 72s are silver...er, argent.

          As for the parking lights, the 68 has the parking lights
          between the headlights, the 69 and 70 have the rectangular
          park lights in the front bumper (bumpers are similar but not
          identical), and the 71-72 cars have the round park lights in
          the front bumper, and the bumpers _are_ identical.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:09:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 & 1977 Cutlass engine/transmission

I believe that you could get a Cutlass with the 260 V-8 and a 5 speed
manual transmission in 1977.  That may have been the standard
combination in the 442 option.

*****
Although I did not find my sales brouchures from 1976 and 1977 last
night, I did find some information on the engine and transmission
combinations which were available during those model years in the
Cutlass line.

It looks like in 1976, the standard engine was the Olds 260 V-8 which
was available with either an automatic transmission (THM200 or
THM350) or a 5 speed manual transmission (T-50).  The Olds 350 and
Olds 455 were available as options, with automatic transmission
only.

In 1977, the standard engine was the Buick 231 V-6 which was only
available with an automatic transmission.  The Olds 260 was again
available with either an automatic or 5 speed manual, but the
automatic transmission selection may have been limited to the THM200.
The Olds 350 was again available, as was the new Olds 403, again both
only with automatic transmissions (THM350).

Since in both 1976 and 1977 the 442 option package only consisted of
stripes and trim, there were undoubtedly quite a few of them with the
260/5 speed combination built each year.  It's also quite likely that
in 1977 there were some built with the V-6/automatic combination.
That would be a real pavement ripper, wouldn't it?

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:21:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 & 1977 Cutlass engine/transmission

Thomas Stoner wrote:

> Since in both 1976 and 1977 the 442 option package only consisted of
> stripes and trim, there were undoubtedly quite a few of them with the
> 260/5 speed combination built each year.  It's also quite likely that
> in 1977 there were some built with the V-6/automatic combination.
> That would be a real pavement ripper, wouldn't it?

That may be true, however, I recall my 350 was pretty menacing in its
glory days.  Not like the 68 442 I have now, but none the less menacing.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:14:39 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

>Dead men hold office here in the South.  A good man is a good man, no
>matter what physical disabilities he may have.

*harrumph*  Here in Chicago dead men not only hold office (although
getting appointments with them is difficult and conference calls are
tricky to set up), but they also vote, too...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:19:11 -0400
Subject: Re: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses

>          As for the parking lights, the 68 has the parking lights
>          between the headlights, the 69 and 70 have the rectangular
>          park lights in the front bumper (bumpers are similar but not
>          identical), and the 71-72 cars have the round park lights in
>          the front bumper, and the bumpers _are_ identical.

While we're discussing bumpers in one Subject and Chevettes in another,
I have to mention what I discovered when exchanging painted bumpers for
chrome ones on my Chevette Scooter many years ago: the front and back
bumpers are identical. The front ones get an extra machining step for
the turn signal punchouts, but that's all. Was trying to think of
creative uses of putting the front bumper with its amber turn signals on
the back of the car... maybe wire them up and connect the backup lights
to the headlights in order to confuse tailgaters... :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Dana Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:51:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

> When I opened the box and looked at the oil guage, I was really leery
about > plumbing high pressure oil into the passenger compartment, In NH
it is illegal to plumb live oil pressure into passenger compartment.
Unless the car was factory equipped. > > I'll never use this kind of
setup again - electrical all the way.  Although > I've heard the
electrical setups are not as accurate - I cannot see why.

The why is that the live oil pressure is what the engine is
experiencing, so assuming the guage is accurate and there is no air in
the line you will read what the engine is producing. With electrical
gagues the oil pressure reading is converted to electrical current at
the sending unit then is converted back to machcanical reading at the
guage.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:23:40 -0400
Subject: Re: mech. oil gauge install (Re: Weekend almost disaster)

> Here's an idea that might make your installation
> a little safer: I routed the plastic hose through a rubber
> vacuum hose the from gauge to sending unit.  This protects it from
> sharp edges, getting kinked, or any damage that might occur while
> I'm working under the hood.

This is an excellent idea.  I used a piece of vacuum hose from the
firewall to the tee for the same reason.  The hose also keeps the
plastic tubing from bending back into a coil.

>     The pressure whipped the line around the cabin like a fire hose
with >     nobody holding onto it.  His interior looked like a modern
art >     painting afterwards.

I can just imagine some people trying to duck, while others are trying
to grab it.  One of those things you tell your kids about!  Pretty
funny, cheered me up. Thanks, I needed that.

Thanks for the advise on using hot water to shape the plastic tubing,
using the cooper tubing, and electrical guages.  I'll check them out.

Drove the beast to work today - 26 miles one way.  Good news is the
level of performance is the same and no noises.  Methinks I dodged a
bullet.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:46:58 -0400
Subject: Oil pressure

>>>>From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@opihi.ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:32:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

That Cummins figure may be for street-going, non-performance
engines...rememberr that as you build more power, the greater the force
acting on the rod, which forces the rod to try to contact the
journal..without sufficient oil pressure you'll end up damaging your
bearings, etc.<<<

I strongly agree, Paul.  The Cummins data as being applicable to our
cars is a similar extrapolation to the one Consumer Reports made on
frequency of oil change and value of synthetic oils.  You must take into
account the environment the test is performed in and the purpose.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:46:55 -0400
Subject: Gauges, plastic line, and "gold mines"

I too don't trust the plastic/nylon lines which come with today's gauge
packages.  Way back when they came with copper line.  Although this is
tougher and more heat resistant than the plastic line, you must make
sure that there is a loop of at least one turn before it goes through
the firewall.  This was the recommendation that came with the Stewart
Warner oil pressure gauge I bought back in the '50s for my ol' 56 88.
Seems the copper tubing can get stressed by engine motion and will crack
eventually. The coils can absorb this to a large degree.

Now AutoMeter sells a braided line kit for their fuel gauges (definitely
something you NEVER want to break.)  I bought one of these kits and it
cost about $50! I was going to eventually get the same kit for the oil
pressure line for both breakage prevention and looks. Fortunately I
found a much cheaper solution.

When my nitrous line sprung a leak, the manager at one of the local
speed shops put me on to a gold mine of high performance pieces.  In
Orlando there is a surplus store called Skycraft.  It's on Fairbanks at
I-4.  Look for the red rocket on the side of the building.  This place
handles surplus aircraft, electronics, electricaln and other surplus
items which they buy by the lot.

Now, a new line from NOS, Inc. was very expensive. I never called to
find out but would bet over $100. I found a 20' line, at Skycraft, with
6,000 psi proof tags on it, for about $35.  Would have been at least
triple that from NOS. And I doubt the nitrous will ever even get close
to the rated pressure.

But, they also have oodles of other lines.  Found the perfect length of
braided line for the oil gauge for $7.00!  All I needed was the adapters
which were about $1 each from the huge pile of fittings they also had.
 Including ones with 1/8" pipe on one end and AN on the other.

They also have neat things like covered and weather proof electrical
switches.  There are dozens of gauges hanging from the ceiling and in
bins.
 Want to have fun with the guys who run 3-5" tachs?  (Like me. But it is
an Olds tach!) How about a 6" oil pressure gauge? :-O

So, find out if there are any surplus aircraft parts stores around your
area.
 If you are near a major airport I would bet there is one. I can never
get out of Skycraft in less than 1-2 hours.  With great restraint I even
got out once without spending any money.  Once. :-)


"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:56:26 -0400
Subject: Re: aero hurst

On Nov 19, 10:15am, Barnacle Bill wrote:
> Subject: aero hurst
>
> I was reading the article on the FE3X Cutlass on Charley Buehner's web
> page and the picture of the Cutlass had ground effects that reminded
me > of the Areo Hurst kit that was offered from Hurst in '88. > I saw a
couple of cars with this at the Olds Nationals this summer and > also
heard that something like only 500 were made.  I was wondering if >
anyone had any information about this styling kit, ie. how many were >
made, is it still available, or if some other company makes a similar >
package? > Thanks, > Bill Reilly > '85 Cutlass Supreme > > >-- End of
excerpt from Barnacle Bill

 Bill -

	I found the literature on the "AERO COMMEMORATIVE" H/O. The official
release was April 9,1988 at Phoenix Int. Raceway. The dealer cost on the
package was $475.00.
	The kit Included:	.Front air dam spoiler
				.Side aero skirts
				.Rear areo skirts
				.An air flow spoiler
				.H/O commemorative emblems
				.Decal striping and instructions
				.Registration card for a serial number

	The address that is on the literature is:

		Hurst/Aero Action Products
		2401 W. 1st Street
		Tempe, AZ   85281
				(602)894-0100
========================================================================
====

cooler ta cruise,                                _   _
                                                 _| | |
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick \/\/ _| |_| red

             (MCORNEA@pt8228.pto.ford.com)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:23:12 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

At 12:14 PM 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Dead men hold office here in the South.  A good man is a good man, no
>>matter what physical disabilities he may have.
>
>*harrumph*  Here in Chicago dead men not only hold office (although
>getting appointments with them is difficult and conference calls are
>tricky to set up), but they also vote, too...
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>
>
There was an old adage about Chicago in the other Mayor Daly days, that
he often spoke of the dead to vote EARLY and OFETN.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:26:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

At 04:51 PM 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> When I opened the box and looked at the oil guage, I was really leery
about >> plumbing high pressure oil into the passenger compartment, In
NH it is illegal to plumb live oil pressure into passenger
>compartment. Unless the car was factory equipped. >> >> I'll never use
this kind of setup again - electrical all the way.  Although >> I've
heard the electrical setups are not as accurate - I cannot see why. >
>The why is that the live oil pressure is what the engine is
experiencing, >so assuming the guage is accurate and there is no air in
the line you >will read what the engine is producing. With electrical
gagues the oil >pressure reading is converted to electrical current at
the sending unit >then is converted back to machcanical reading at the
guage. > > Why would air in the line cause a gauge mis-reading?
Wouldn't air in a closed hydraulic system compress and go to the liquid
pressure in the line? Just plain curiousity?

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:53:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

Somebody (I got confused with all the indents :) ) said:

> In NH it is illegal to plumb live oil pressure into passenger
> compartment. Unless the car was factory equipped.

I've never heard of this.  It seems uncharacteristic in the extreme
that the "Live Free or Die" state would have such a law...

I better be careful when I drive Big Red up to the state liquor stores
on the border then... the NH State Troopers might arrest me if they do
spot-checking for outlaw oil pressure set-ups :)



Tim (Living Outside the Law, and NH) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:00:58 -0400
Subject: 1970 cutlass engine swap

Hi everyone...

I am still kinda new here so I figured i would introduce myself - My
name is Marc Westerlind, I am from Douglas MA, I am 18 years old, Blah
blah blah, I work at EMC in milford MA, and I have a bright orange 1970
cutlass supreme (black vinyl roof, interior, and stripes all "around"
the car.......

Anyway the original 350 is getting a little tired after 150K miles. I
want to turn the car into a serious street machine - only to be driven
to friday night cruises and a few trips to the strip. I really dont
think a 350 is going to be to intimidating at all. My plan was to buy a
455 block put it on an engine stand and build it up during the winter or
at least get the parts all together and have someone built it and drop
it in...

Here are my questions:

1. Will a 455 bolt right in? I unserstand I might need new motor mounts
(the rubber ones) but I DO NOT want to have to do any hacking of the
frames motor mounts (the part of the frame where the rubber ones mount
to)

2. Will the TH350 bolt to it? I was planning to get and olds 455 like a
1968-1970 model.

3. Would I need any modifycations besides maybe new heavier duty
springs? (I am currently getting ready to rebuild the front end anyway)

4. The TH350 probably wont last to long before it grenades right? The
350 currnetly has an estimated 360-380 flywheel HP and I would like the
455 to have high performance parts (aluminum pistons a 280 degree cam
etc.)


thanks a ton

Marc Westerlind

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:13:32 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses


While we're discussing bumpers in one Subject and Chevettes in
another, I have to mention what I discovered when exchanging
painted bumpers for chrome ones on my Chevette Scooter many
years ago: the front and back bumpers are identical...

          AMC actually built an engineering exercise in the 60s where
          the front and back bumpers were the same, the right front
          and left rear doors doors interchanged (as did the other
          pair),the hood and trunk lid interchanged, and the front and
          rear diagonally opposite fenders interchanged.  The idea, of
          course, was to cut tooling and warehousing costs.  As you
          might expect, it looked a lot like those cars people build
          by welding the front of two Toros (or Eldos, or Citations,
          or...) together (token Olds thread).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: saderus@corp.rockwell.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:17:50 -0400
Subject: 442 Station Wagons?

I recently saw a 70 something Cutlass Vista Cruiser with a 442 badge on
the left
side of the grille.  A friend also tells me he has seen one other wagon
with 442 emblems recently at Pomona Swap Meet.  Did Olds make 442
wagons, and if so what engine would the car likely have.  The one I saw
was in pristine condition, and I'm told the car may be for sale.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:24:19 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster


Somebody (I got confused with all the indents :) ) said:

> In NH it is illegal to plumb live oil pressure into passenger
> compartment. Unless the car was factory equipped.

I've never heard of this.  It seems uncharacteristic in the extreme
that the "Live Free or Die" state would have such a law...

          Worse is a Maryland law which prohibits the installation of
          nitrous oxide systems in street-driven cars.  This is the
          result of a series of accidents several years back in which
          improperly restrained N2O bottles broke loose in the
          accident and allowed the valve to be broken off.  Naturally
          it was much easier to just ban all such systems than to
          require proper restraints.  Similarly, it is (presumably)
          legal to simply carry the just-refilled N2O bottle for your
          race car back home unrestrained in the back seat of your
          car.  And naturally, the law makes no mention of other high
          pressure bottles, such as welding tanks or diving tanks.
          All the more reason for a hidden N2O system...

          Joe (thankful I live in VA) Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:40:38 -0400
Subject: Junk Yards

At 07:49 11/17/1996 +0000, you wrote:

>I know Auto Body Specialties has them for about $45; I may go with them
when >the time comes. Who else do you know of?

There is another place I found in the phone book while looking up the
number for A.B. Specialties called A.B. Suppliers in Cromwell CT. The
guy there said he has the panels "for around $40". Both places are about
a half an hour away from my house. I plan to stop in and find out more
someday. >

>Where is that yard? No place around here has anything that old, and if
I'm >ever in the neighborhood I might stop in, especially if they'll let
you pick >the parts (I could always use another set of #7a heads).

This yard is in Wallingford CT. off of Rt.5. I went there a couple of
times at the end of this summer. The first time I went,some guy walked
me out to the way-back of the yard where there are 3-4 Cutlass' stuck in
a corner."There they are" he said and went back in the shop.I poked
around and found a parking brake pad and the arm rest pad for the
drivers side,a glove bos door,and the front side running light plus a
few other little parts.Rummaging around like that brought back memories
from the old days.Went back to the shop and told him what I needed and
he came out with some tools and removed the parts."I gotta take the
parts off for you,yard rules".No problem, just don't -you- break them
trying to take them off!! Went back in and aksed the boss for a
price."Ahh, give me 20 bucks." I almost died!! A pair of arm pads alone
cost $80 at Fusicks!! Well, about a week later,I went back and got the
rear running light,the cigar lighter,and the under hood light for
$15.This time the boss let me go out back alone with a screwdriver and
adjustable wrench. Man,I just love poking around in old cars!!! >

>That sounds like it might be a fuel pump or clogged fuel filter.
>

That may be the right place to start looking,but you just don't throw in
a new fuel pump just for laughs,right? But I think that the car was
sitting for a while,so I think the filter will be first.
        Thanks for the advice.Let me know if you will be around some
day.My job actually gives me alot of time free during weekdays.Maybe we
could go and check out that junk yard. Talk to you soon....

Bob. I am sending this again to you because yes, I got a message
returned from someone at ferris.edu or something like that.Pretty
strange. Sorry if you already read this....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:47:55 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: tail lights on 69-72 Cutlasses

Yuk, yuk!! I love it!!  But wouldn't you need to mount the rear bumper
on the roof of the car?

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------
I have to mention what I discovered when exchanging painted bumpers for
chrome ones on my Chevette Scooter many years ago: the front and back
bumpers are identical. The front ones get an extra machining step for
the turn signal punchouts, but that's all. Was trying to think of
creative uses of putting the front bumper with its amber turn signals on
the back of the car... maybe wire them up and connect the backup lights
to the headlights in order to confuse tailgaters... :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:40:41 -0400
Subject: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

At 14:15 11/07/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically the
headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on either >side), > >Craig Dobbins. >Lockport, N.Y.

>
Hey,Craig;  I have been meaning to get back to you about those headlight
housings. Are you looking for the squarish piece that goes around the
lights and is painted black with a chrome trim? Or the silver rings that
hold the lights into the concave holders? Or, (there are alot of pieces
holding the lights!!) do you need the gray plastic-like backings that
are around the light assemblies? Let me know,and I will look the next
time I go to the yard around here.
        By the way, does anyone know what color black the head light
trim pieces on a '68 Cutlass should be? Mine are quite faded and chipped
from bugs and other road debris. Now I can't tell if they should be flat
black or gloss. Thank for any help....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:40:35 -0400
Subject: Bill Buckner

At 13:11 11/19/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I said:
>> I'd feel much safer in a GM pickup with saddle gas tanks than any
F**d >> product, my Dad's Tom Car included :)
                     ^^^
>That *shoulda* been "Town Car", not Tom...  and his name ain't Tom,
neither! :) > >Tim (As Good with a Keyboard As Bill Buckner is with
Baseballs) Churchill

Oh, come on now. Let's DROP this subject!!! ;) Anyhow,your keyboard
wasn't moving and you were sitting down!! This is probably only funny
(sad) to folks from New England anyway.....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:43:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

I recently saw a 70 something Cutlass Vista Cruiser with a 442 badge on
the left
side of the grille.  A friend also tells me he has seen one other wagon
with 442 emblems recently at Pomona Swap Meet.  Did Olds make 442
wagons, and if so what engine would the car likely have.  The one I saw
was in pristine condition, and I'm told the car may be for sale.

          No, not for production anyway, unless you count the 1972 H/O
          wagons used at the Indy 500.  On the other hand, there are a
          lot of 442 wagons out there.  Emblems are cheap.  There are
          a lot of nice 70 W-30 wagons out there - I've seen several.
          My first car was a 68 "442" Vista Cruiser which not only got
          the emblems and grille but the bucket seats, console, sway
          bars, SSII wheels, and a 425.  I've noted previously how
          this car often surprised Mach 1s and SS Camaros (this was in
          the mid-70s).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:14:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Buckner -- Yes, Olds is Mentioned in This

I was trying to be funny saying:

> >Tim (As Good with a Keyboard As Bill Buckner is with Baseballs)
Churchill >

Brad from CT responds:

> Oh, come on now. Let's DROP this subject!!! ;) Anyhow,your keyboard
wasn't > moving and you were sitting down!!

I dunno, you haven't seen my keyboard... and Bill *shoulda* been sittin'
down, but I don't blame him; it was all McNamara's fault.

> This is probably only funny (sad) to folks from New England
anyway.....

Yeah, I still cringe over Game 6.  I was attending a wedding in
Princeton, NJ, that evening, and a big group of us kept meandering into
the lounge at the reception hall to watch the game... I was a lone BoSox
fan amid the MetsHeads.

I was so pumped when the Sox were down to one more strike... and then I
felt donkey ears growing on the side 'o my head when that error
occurred. :P

Well, maybe Roger "Rocket-Man" Clemens (who lives in Framingham in
season, BTW - -- and no, despite his nickname, he doesn't drive an Olds
:) ) will get his chance to pitch once more in the World Series.

In (ugh!) Pinstripes!


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:14:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

Brad Baker wrote:

>         By the way, does anyone know what color black the head light
trim > pieces on a '68 Cutlass should be? Mine are quite faded and
chipped from > bugs and other road debris. Now I can't tell if they
should be flat black or > gloss. Thank for any help....

I am not sure, however, my 68 has flat black on the head light trim
pieces.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:15:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro question

buehner wrote:
>
> Just the occasional puddle of light under the dash...  :)

Yeah.  Between that barrel speedometer and the flat floor, it makes a
hell of a mess.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:33:05 -0400
Subject: '71 fender interchangability

All;

I located a '71 or '72 Vista Cruiser (4 door) with a good drivers side
front fender. Will this fender fit my '71 Cutlass 2 door holiday coupe?

Thanks, Mitch

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:41:28 -0400
Subject: Vista Cruiser roof glass

There was a fellow on this list looking for roof glass for his VC. If he
still needs it, I may know where he can get it. This car is a '72 I
think. May be a '71. Please contact me off the list if you are
interested.

Mitch

msdelk@ingr.com

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:19:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

>buehner wrote:
>>
>> >>  I am looking for parts for my '68 442 convertable. Specifically
the >> >headlight housings (silver/grey piece that encases each set of
headlights on >> >either >> >>side), >>      <<< S N I P >>> >>
Clarification point, here:  Are these pieces 442 specific,
          <<snip>>
Dan Williams wrote:
>They are all the same. I can't remember if the 442 ones are painted
different, >but the pieces are the same.  Of course I bring this up,
because I am looking >for these also. Unfortunately, I need 2 complete
sets.

Question:
Are you guy's looking for grey molded plastic-like pieces that go around
and under the headlights and the signal lights or just the square metal
pieces that are around the single bulbs?? I may be able to look for
these parts around here,but I'm not sure which part youse guys need. I
think Craig needs these parts as well,so ya'all let me know...

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Gary" <fischer@adminnet.assiniboinec.mb.ca>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:30:32 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor


> If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan
operation? Mine > simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and
doesn't always operate > at low  fan speeds . > > Thanks to all who
have responded. > > Roger Hitson > hitson@leadbelt.com > The terrible
howling/screeching noise can often be fixed without removing the motor
from the car  by oiling the bearing/bushing whatever in the motor.  To
do this drill a small hole in the bump at the end of the motor not
right at the end but sort of at the side on an angle.  And apply a
little bit of light oil.  The hole can be plugged with a bit of silicon
or a piece of tape or just leave it open.

Fischer@adminnet.assiniboinec.mb.ca


>
Gary Fischer
Computer Services
Assiniboine Community College
Brandon Manitoba Canada

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:29:22 -0400
Subject: Re: '71 fender interchangability

At 02:33 PM 11/19/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I located a '71 or '72 Vista Cruiser (4 door) with a good drivers side
>front fender. Will this fender fit my '71 Cutlass 2 door holiday coupe?

Yes. All Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme and Vista Cruiser fenders from
1970-1972 are interchangeable, through all body styles.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:52:15 -0400
Subject: Re: aero hurst

We happen to have 2 (TWO) of them in our garage.  We were just talking
about them last night, as a matter of fact.  If you want any further
info, I'm sure my husband (Mr. H/O expert) can dig it up.

Jeff & Sherie Stanish, Campbell CA ('69, '75, & '79 H/O's, 1-'74 VW)


On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Thomas Stoner wrote:

> I was reading the article on the FE3X Cutlass on Charley Buehner's web
 > page and the picture of the Cutlass had ground effects that reminded
me > of the Areo Hurst kit that was offered from Hurst in '88. > I saw
a couple of cars with this at the Olds Nationals this summer and > also
heard that something like only 500 were made.  I was wondering if >
anyone had any information about this styling kit, ie. how many were >
made, is it still available, or if some other company makes a similar >
package? > > ***** > Bill, > > I believe that I still have an original
press kit from Hurst on this > in my file cabinet at home.  As I recall
from the time, production > was very limited.  Several of us in the
Hurst/Olds Club considered > purchasing a kit, just for future resale,
but I don't know that > anyone did.  I seriously doubt that Mr. Gasket
has any of them left > in a warehouse somewhere, but you never know.  I
think that the press > kit contained an order form.  If you're really
interested, I'll try > to remember to pull it out and provide all the
details. > > Tom Stoner > Ann Arbor, MI > >

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:14:44 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

>> If fuses or relays were bad, would this not result in NO fan
operation?

Right. In particular, the High speed (only) uses a relay under the hood,
fed via an in-line harness connector that tends to melt. The lower
speeds run their power through a resistor pack mounted under the hood in
the ductwork and through the dashboard switch, which also can sometimes
melt.

>> Mine simply makes terrible howling/screeching noises and doesn't
always >> operate at low  fan speeds.

Definitely some old bearings going bad. I take it this is worst on cold
mornings? Goes away after the car warms up?

>The terrible howling/screeching noise can often be fixed without
>removing the motor from the car  by oiling the bearing/bushing
>whatever in the motor.

That's a good idea if it's going to be a major pain to replace the motor
altogether (e.g. 1972 and earlier). On later GM cars I've found it's
more, um, cost-efficient or aggravation-efficient in the long run to
simply yank the old motor and swap in a rebuilt from someplace like
Trak Auto with a 7-year/70K warranty. On the one occasion where the
replacement did go bad after a couple of years, I got another with no
questions asked. (But save those receipts! :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:34:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

     Well, since I haven't seen anyone else reply to this I'll give it a

     shot.  I'm not an A-body expert, so take the advice for what it's
     worth.

     A 455 will fit, with the same engine mounts I believe.  The TH350
will
     bolt up, but why not also get the TH400 from whatever donor car you

     get the 455 from?  You'll also need the accessory brackets (A/C,
     alternator, PS) and exhaust manifolds too.

     The other modification you should consider is a bigger radiator.
As
     big as you can find, with as many rows as you can find.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: 1970 cutlass engine swap
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/19/96 10:19
AM

Here are my questions:

1. Will a 455 bolt right in? I unserstand I might need new motor mounts
(the rubb er ones) but I DO NOT want to have to do any hacking of the
frames motor mounts ( the part of the frame where the rubber ones mount
to)

2. Will the TH350 bolt to it? I was planning to get and olds 455 like a
1968-1970
 model.

3. Would I need any modifycations besides maybe new heavier duty
springs? (I am c urrently getting ready to rebuild the front end
anyway)

4. The TH350 probably wont last to long before it grenades right? The
350 currnet ly has an estimated 360-380 flywheel HP and I would like
the 455 to have high per formance parts (aluminum pistons a 280 degree
cam etc.)


thanks a ton

Marc Westerlind




------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:00:20 -0400
Subject: Re: aero hurst

>We happen to have 2 (TWO) of them in our garage.

Uh, what day is it?  I've been kinda sick lately, and I think I just
woke up on April 1st!!!  Wow!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:00:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

>I recently saw a 70 something Cutlass Vista Cruiser with a 442 badge on
 >the left >side of the grille.  A friend also tells me he has seen one
other wagon >with 442 emblems recently at Pomona Swap Meet.  Did Olds
make 442 wagons, >
     Wasn't the 442 and option package the first year introduced?  If I
remember right, there were actually a few 442 Wagons orderred and
produced that first year.  Maybe I'm just drugged up, (with this flu
thing and all) but it seems to me that was the case.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:53:16 -0400
Subject: Re: '71 fender interchangability

          Sure will; fits all 70-72 Cutlass/F-85/442/Vista/Cutlass
          Cruiser.  You will have to weld or braze up the holes for
          the chrome trim around the woodgrain.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: '71 fender interchangability
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at OSC-LINK Date:    11/19/96 2:44 PM


All;

I located a '71 or '72 Vista Cruiser (4 door) with a good drivers side
front fender. Will this fender fit my '71 Cutlass 2 door holiday coupe?

Thanks, Mitch


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:57:14 -0400
Subject: Alternate heater fan motor failure modes

...The terrible howling/screeching noise can often be fixed without
removing the motor from the car  by oiling the bearing/bushing whatever
in the motor...

          I've actually had the screeching noise caused by the plastic
          fan coming loose on the motor shaft.  Unfortunately, it is
          still necessary to remove the motor (and thus the hood and
          fender) to simply tighten the nut that holds the fan.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:05:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

If you have a 350 and want to change to a 400,425 or 455 you can
use the 350 motor mounts, only drawback is the engine will set
at least 1 inch higher than normal.  The other option is to use
400,425 or 455 frame mounts with the matching motor mounts
and the engine will set normal.  You will not need to drill holes
for the BB frame mounts.  They are direct bolt in.  As for the th350
mount, the crossmember will stay the same unless you change to
a th400.  With the th400 the rubber mount is different, so you will
have to buy one and move the crossmember backwards to the second
set of holes.  It is pretty easy to do.  The 350 mounts only pose a
problem with hood to aircleaner clearance.  If you run a stock intake,
no problem. If you use a torqer or Edlebrock Performer than you may
have trouble

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:06:06 -0400
Subject: Re: aero hurst

Either I'm early (or late) for April Fool's day, but I'm NOT kidding!!
My husband bought 2 of the Aero kits in 1988, and they are stashed in
our garage, in their original boxes, in mint condition!!  As someone in
an earlier post mentioned, some of the H/O club members had talked
about buying some of these kits and putting them away, but he wasn't
sure whether anyone had....Well, WE did!  I seriously doubt whether
they will ever be used on a car, though.

Sherie & Jeff Stanish (H/O club member, among other Olds clubs)


On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, buehner wrote:

> >We happen to have 2 (TWO) of them in our garage.
>
> Uh, what day is it?  I've been kinda sick lately, and I think I just
woke up > on April 1st!!!  Wow!  :) > >       Charley Buehner
| "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >       500 4th Ave.          |
"charley@rocketship.com" >       Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >       Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >       "Rockit 1"            | '81
Olds Cutlass 425 >       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > >

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:17:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Gauges, plastic line, and "gold mines"

Bob,
Nice post.  Good info on cooper line and aircraft surplus stores.

I was suprised when I ran across a gold mine at a boating store this
summer!  It was like a kid in the candy store for the first time.
Needed lots of restraint and pulling from friends to get me away.

Got out without spending money once, only once.  HA!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:13:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

>My vote for best looking? The '68, of course... :)
>Greg Beaulieu

I, of course, am partial to '69...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:15:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Wanted

At 05:46 PM 11/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Any and all Batten Performance parts out there. Also still looking for
69 antenna -Cutlass and 72 Hurst glove box door


Fusick's has NOS antennas, but they're expensive, like $40 or $50...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:43:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Weatherstrip Source?

A company called Metro has tons of weather stripping available.  I think
it is all repro.  Here is there # 1-800-878-2237.  Here is their website
address www.metrommp.com.



steve

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:43:35 -0400
Subject: RE: 442 Station Wagons?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD638.CF9239C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



- ----------
From: 	JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com[SMTP:JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 19, 1996 12:43 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: 442 Station Wagons?

...70 something VC w/442 badge...friend...tells he has seen one other =
wagon=20
with 442 emblems...at Pomona Swap Meet.  Did Olds make 442 wagons...
=20
          ...not for production anyway, unless...(a) 1972 H/O wagons =
used at the                     Indy 500...lot of 442 wagons out there.
= Emblems are cheap.
          Joe Padavano  jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          66 442, 68 W-30, 69 H/O, 70 W-30
=20
  Back in the mid-sixties, when 4-4-2's and Vista Cruisers were new, the
= long extinct Car Life magazine outfitted a VC as a 4-4-2 and then went
out = looking for people to pick on.  I don't believe I have that
particular issue = anymore tho, as friend Ron, Starfire addict, wanted
it.  One could look it up though. =
 The
car was called "Wonder Warthog" or some such nice name.
dj


- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD638.CF9239C0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IiUWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgAB
BJAG
ADgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFEAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmd
bgDd
AQ9UAgAAAABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNoZWJ1Y3RvLm5zLmNhAFNNVFAAb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjaGVi
dWN0
by5ucy5jYQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAGgAAAG9sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ29sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EnAAIBCzABAAAAHwAAAFNNVFA6T0xEU01PQklMRUBDSEVCVUNUTy5OUy5D
QQAA
AwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAPaPQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3Nv
ZnQg
TWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAYAAAAUkU6IDQ0MiBTdGF0aW9uIFdhZ29ucz8AWwcBBYADAA4A
AADM
BwsAEwAQACsAIwACAFEBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcLABMAEAArACAAAgBOAQEJgAEAIQAAAEU3MEYz
QkQz
Mjk0MkQwMTE4MjBBMTAwMDVBMUUzN0E4APAGAQOQBgB0BQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAA
AAAL
ACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIAXWhlr1rsBHgBwAAEAAAAYAAAAUkU6IDQ0MiBTdGF0aW9u
IFdh
Z29ucz8AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvWaxla0zsP6EIpEdCCChAAWh43qAAAHgAeDAEAAAADAAAA
TVMA
AB4AHwwBAAAAGgAAAEdFT0xTVVJWL0dFT0xTVVJWL0Rlbm5pc0oAAAADAAYQ/qakuQMABxDH
AgAA
HgAIEAEAAABlAAAALS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006SlBBREFASFFHQVRFT1JCSVRBTENPTVNNVFA6
SlBB
REFASFFHQVRFT1JCSVRBTENPTVNFTlQ6VFVFU0RBWSxOT1ZFTUJFUjE5LDE5OTYxMjo0M1BN
VAAA
AAACAQkQAQAAAPYDAADyAwAAeQYAAExaRnWsU/cf/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArA
c2V0
MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbEL
YOBu
ZzEwMxRQCwoUUTUL8mMAQCAKhQqLbGkIMTgwAtFpLTE0njQN8AzQHNMLWTE2CqDrA2AT0GMF
QC0e
9wqHHavrDDAedkYDYTof/h52DIIAIEpQQURBQGgocWdhE9AuBbBiaQkBkGwuBaBtW1NN2FRQ
OiO/
JMVdH58grS8GYAIwId8i61QKUHNkSGF5LAewb3YT4GIxBJAgMTkrsCxgOTYBLFAyOjQzIFBN
cycv
IK1UbylvIusG8GRGcwRgJKBsZUARcGVkYnUewG8uAIAk8GHjLX8oPnViah6xL58i6zxSZTVw
HOAR
4QGQdGkhAiAgV2FnAiBzP3Ma/xwDMzYddxpFHnYuYTvANzAgcwNwEcBoAQuAZyBWQyB3L+E3
kmJh
ZGckYDvAA1CZCJBuZDvBE9BsbAQgezIwPrBhBCARsAnwMWBu7z7QHpAyMAXAdzhiGuYD8O88
YDeD
LAEx8G0ywDvAJEC3LUADcAIgYQYAQCBwBdABCeB0LiAgRGlk1CBPMYEgAMBrPtA3kr9AI0Hi
CoUa
5kYYO8FuHpDuIAIQBcAecWQyYTgSAHDmeUAgK6F1bjHwBBA7wRgoYSksUQHAIEgv/k9ElUiQ
EbBD
oEIhP9FGGcVGGEk+EHkgNRxwO8GzFaAFQG9mRFkxYHVK07sWEENRRUGUSBAWECAyIadC4EUn
RhdK
bz7QUD1g1GF2AHBvQ2BqCrArgHcl7wNwUC82LNA3kSuwNqI4OEAtMzBVATlJsi8rsDvxVVJF
P0IA
0GsgqwuASuNtQ5AtAJB4OACbB5ArsHcyMAOgNC1ZkHwyJ09hPhA8sAQAAZAguENydQQABJAE
IHdO
ofogP5B3K7BK8hWgGRAKhaplWNFuHsFDCsFMBpDzWFE4YGF6C4A/oU5QHKD/AkBKkjyyPwFC
oFmT
WgM/0Z8DoFtAAjBOMxWgb2s8gfMKhUczZW8LUD7QMoBHYI5pV9ECIENRSSBkAiDuJwVALCAc
MGUr
8GOBEYCfZGE8YEIhCrE4AGN1C2B/BcAEAQpQSBIEYE+RPGBv3iwKhT8BPdQH8W4rsDfRrnIc
oE+R
PWBkYwB0WSHvAHBe0iSwQ1FPP5EFoGWwP0OgYTJp8UiQQvBm4XVn+mhDUVQyMAqFMuBAAgQg
5zLg
PoBKkSJXAiAEgThB8wAgZvBnIjFgBcA8IjwQ1zJgQSADAGNbcWEHgEUmfGRqOM853zrsCoUV
MQAB
dIAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwIIJCF2vWuwFAAAgwIIJCF2vWuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUA
AABS RTogAAAAADWc

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD638.CF9239C0--

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:02:21 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 1970 cutlass engine swap



     A 455 will fit, with the same engine mounts I believe.

        True.  You must use the same rubber mounts for the frame mounts
in
        the car.

     The TH350 will bolt up, but why not also get the TH400 from
whatever
     donor car you get the 455 from?

        Also a good idea, but be careful with the TH400.  These come in
two
        flavors (ignoring the B-O-P vs. Chevy bolt pattern on the
        bellhousing), long and short tailshaft.  The short version is
used
        on the A-body cars, while the long version is used on the
full-size
        cars.  You will need the short version.  In addition, the TH400
is
        longer overall than the TH350, so you will need the correct
        driveshaft as well (or you will have to have yours shortened).
I
        seem to recall that the front yoke on the driveshaft is
different
        between the TH400 and TH350, so you definitely want the right
        driveshaft.

     You'll also need the accessory brackets (A/C, alternator, PS) and
     exhaust manifolds too.

        Most of the Olds brackets either have two sets of holes or
        will fit either block, but you certainly want to get as much
        as you can from the donor car.  You certainly need the 455
        exhaust manifolds (unless you plan to use headers), but you
        need the correct ones for an A-body (for example, Toronado
        manifolds won't work).

     The other modification you should consider is a bigger radiator.
As
     big as you can find, with as many rows as you can find.

        Agreed.  I typically order the largest 4-row core I can get
        out of a Delta 98 with all the options.  You will need to
        modify the top and bottom brackets on the core support to
        accept the wider tanks on this unit.

        As for springs, unless yours are weak, the stockers should be
        fine.  The difference in weight between 350 and 455 is well
        under 100 lbs, and if you use an aluminum intake the
        difference is even less.


        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30






------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:05:09 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 442 Station Wagons?

     Wasn't the 442 and option package the first year introduced?  If I
remember right, there were actually a few 442 Wagons orderred and
produced that first year.

          Actually, I thought it was available on any Cutlass/F-85
_except_
          the wagon.  I know there were nine 4-door 442s built that
year.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:14:25 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Cutlass Taillights


I, of course, am partial to '69...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net


          This is too easy...

          BTW, the California DMV would not let me get "69 HURST" as a
          license plate!  No, it was not already taken - they wouldn't
          even allow 1969 or any plate with 69 on it.  Virginia, on
          the other hand, is either much more tolerant, or doesn't
          know what it means.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: gregttu@juno.com (Gregory Shaver)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:24:06 -0400
Subject: '72 442

I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a regular
cutlass bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this is a real
442 or a cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if
you know.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:22:56 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 442 Station Wagons?

Back in the mid-sixties, when 4-4-2's and Vista Cruisers were new, the
long extinct Car Life magazine outfitted a VC as a 4-4-2 and then went
out looking for people to pick on.  I don't believe I have that
particular issue anymore tho, as friend Ron, Starfire addict, wanted
it.  One could look it up though. = The car was called "Wonder Warthog"
or some such nice name. dj

          Car and Driver did this with a 68 VC.  Added a 455 and the
          rear stabilizer bar.  Called it Son of Boss Wagon (Boss
          Wagon 1 was a 66 Fury wagon with a Hemi but no handling
          mods).  Also, Road and Track tested a 70 VC to which Olds
          had added a W-30 motor, W-25 hood, and FE2 suspension.  The
          woodgrain was deleted and the car painted Rally Red with the
          W-30 stripes.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:26:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cutlass Taillights

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:

>           This is too easy...
>
>           BTW, the California DMV would not let me get "69 HURST" as a
>           license plate!  No, it was not already taken - they wouldn't
>           even allow 1969 or any plate with 69 on it.  Virginia, on
>           the other hand, is either much more tolerant, or doesn't
>           know what it means.

Joe,

Try this...............   "6HURST9"   "6HO9"


or....................    "6T9HURST"    "6T9HO"  <----that may not make
it for other reasons!  (:

Or any variation thereof...


Sparky


- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:29:16 -0400
Subject: RE: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD63F.31127EC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 > PS.  Don't blame us.  We voted for Jefferson Davis.

> Dennis Johnson wrote:
> He's dead, you know.
> dj...from SOUTH Dakotah

Dennis, Dead men hold office here in the South.  A good man is a good
man, no matter what physical disabilities he may have. Bill Culp
decatur, Alabama

__________________
Ok, one more comment on this and I will speak no more on it.  However,
I feel that this is an important thing that I have noticed but have no
idea what it really means. In travelling many tens of thousands of miles
in the north and south of the US I have noticed a distinct difference in
attitude toward civil war movers and shakers.  While Jefferson Davis,
Robert E. Lee, etc., are revered and eulogized all through the south
there is no equivalent of that found in the north.  Ulysses Grant, for
example, is not loved, or for that matter hated in the north.  He is,
instead, ignored.  Sure he was President of the United States but which
one?  18th according to my dictionary.  1869-1877. Curious, no? dj...who
will now stick to cars!

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD63F.31127EC0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IhEXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgAB
BJAG
ADgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFEAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmd
bgDd
AQ9UAgAAAABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNoZWJ1Y3RvLm5zLmNhAFNNVFAAb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjaGVi
dWN0
by5ucy5jYQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAGgAAAG9sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ29sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EnAAIBCzABAAAAHwAAAFNNVFA6T0xEU01PQklMRUBDSEVCVUNUTy5OUy5D
QQAA
AwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAPaPQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3Nv
ZnQg
TWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAwAAAAUkU6IE9LLCBLdXJ0LCB3aGF0IGlzIHVwIG92ZXIgdGhl
cmUg
aW4gTWljaGlnYW4AyQ8BBYADAA4AAADMBwsAEwARAB0AEAACADEBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcLABMA
EQAN
AAMAAgAUAQEJgAEAIQAAAEVGMEYzQkQzMjk0MkQwMTE4MjBBMTAwMDVBMUUzN0E4AP8GAQOQ
BgCw
BQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ACBN9Hpx1rsBHgBw
AAEA
AAAwAAAAUkU6IE9LLCBLdXJ0LCB3aGF0IGlzIHVwIG92ZXIgdGhlcmUgaW4gTWljaGlnYW4A
AgFx
AAEAAAAWAAAAAbvWcXr00zsP8EIpEdCCChAAWh43qAAAHgAeDAEAAAADAAAATVMAAB4AHwwB
AAAA
GgAAAEdFT0xTVVJWL0dFT0xTVVJWL0Rlbm5pc0oAAAADAAYQ+9gcAwMABxAYAwAAHgAIEAEA
AABl
AAAAUFNET05UQkxBTUVVU1dFVk9URURGT1JKRUZGRVJTT05EQVZJU0RFTk5JU0pPSE5TT05X
Uk9U
RTpIRVNERUFELFlPVUtOT1dESkZST01TT1VUSERBS09UQUhERU5OSVMsREVBRAAAAAACAQkQ
AQAA
ABkEAAAVBAAAzAYAAExaRnWYyGCG/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbD
AoMy
A8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYGBuZzEwMxRQ
CwNs
+GkzNg3wC1UUUQvyE1AKbxPQYwVAID4gUNRTLhuARAIgJwVAAmCiYQeAIHVzG+FXHLCydhsx
ZCAC
EAXASg3BTQSQcwIgHABhdgQALusKjxp4YwBAIB77Gd8a6XcboB+/IMBECfADAAQgSqxvaACA
HmF3
GyI6Ig/HGzQe9RugSGUnBCANsCBhZCwgeQhgIGsYbm93G+Anh2RqLocqEANSBgBPVVRIHoFy
axsw
YWge9R71JMQsvyOfIMAjjhsWJMAogCAHgC0DoGgG8B2Qbw3QaWOdHLBoBJAcsAuAIHQwsA8G
AAhg
MTAb4UEgZ2/vBHAvoAORJQFhMgcooAuQ/yzPMDAt7xslAMACQASQJaDzEYAFQHBoE7AwcAdA
KFDn
BAABoAMQaXQIkAQgMUGtAMB5L+AeoGUe5kIDEOEDIEN1bHAzry3BNO9fGyUFgTZwCHAooEEL
YGLd
HJBhK2w6TyDAX0AfO5/nJyshXyAbT2sooAIgOJH3BbAcsAWgbS+xBUAeYTEwNTKibh2QSSWg
OcJz
cP0ocGszgDTQRXMeYTggG+H6SCkgZTkQPWAe9UcAHiB+ZQMgMTA28UZzRpMw8G3+cBWxAHBK
YxkQ
SiRHADjy70fBODAwgB2QYjGQTJYw8G8oYR71NtM4ICAWEAdAbK840AeAAHEe5kkxEXI5Af85
0Evy
A4E40BPQBjEwQDEh7whgN9BG0FIDbQMQB5ExBfspEAAgaEazHlAxkTAxHvV9MTJVBfBMjTLQ
N7E4
MG7/PNIGkB4hCfAwgTEBNnE4IL51DbAxICkgCxFFsGkesL8DIFkhHvUEYEkRRqRzEYD+ax4x
HPJG
gFNAHe4ooAgA1mIEkAVARRvgTAngKKDZEcBjLiigCsBlHvUWEBdJEVayRtFlOhBvZ2meelay
OdEx
MANgdWdUMD8xMlSUMTEw0gQgR9FlcX51WYAHQEYDVQg28QIQdXdG0VOKG+FVT6AEEAeRR89Q
4AIw
KKAdsmV4HJALUP9d8WJDBUAVoDkQKJEFsB71/x2ySjM2ZTbhHYFknSgQMpHPZyEAgBPQKIJp
Z1Px
CYBdG+FTCHAwkk52YQQgUH8WEACQDbBjI1V0AwAdclP/AZAT0AQgTXI20DBwVNFFQNI/G4Ax
OFQi
YwWhN7C9TAJvWgY40DewG2BpAiCNCsB5G+FwsDY5LXCwfDc3HuY6AAUQUnEzcW/+Px71KfM2
0DTQ
RyMpEUdg300RR7BZAEWwEZEhO38nDQUVMQB5sAAAAAMAEBABAAAAAwAREAEAAABAAAcwAFjm
Nm/W uwFAAAgwAFjmNm/WuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAFyx

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD63F.31127EC0--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #372
********************************
 
