To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/27/96 10:29:14 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #313


oldsmobile-digest        Friday, 27 September 1996     Volume 01 : Number 313


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Browder <mbrowder@telemail.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:57:13 -0300
Subject: FS: 71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible
92,000 original miles
No rust
Auto. A/C, AM/FM Cassette (I have the original AM radio)
Fairly new dual exhaust with late model Monte Carlo mufflers
Midnite blue (custom paint is 2 years old, looks great)
Black top (top is 2 years old but has a cut above the right rear window)
Black interior (original upholstery in excellent shape except for small 
tear in back of the driver's seat)
New glass rear window
New water pump, master cylinder, shocks, springs,
bushings, fan clutch, ball joints, transmission
mount, u-joints, hydraulic cylinders for top.
Complete shop and body manuals.

MUST SELL
asking $6K.

Call Mike at 703-758-1925 evenings or 703-689-7412
days.

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:10:08 -0300
Subject: Salon weight

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>From slcannon@uncc.edu Thu Sep 26 11:08:45 1996
From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:08:35 -0400
To: oldsmobile@ccn.ca.dal.ca
Subject: Salon weight
Cc: slcannon@uncc.edu


- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>From slcannon@uncc.edu Thu Sep 26 11:01:20 1996
From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:01:13 -0400
To: oldsmobile.ccn.ca.dal.ca@uncc.edu
Subject: Salon weight
Cc: slcannon@uncc.edu

My '86 Cutlass 442 has a curb weight of approximately 4200 lbs (says so on the 
sticker inside the drivers door).  Have to remember the glass in those t-tops 
weigh a lot more than a metal roof would.

Steve


- ----- End Included Message -----



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:00:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

At 01:00 PM 9/25/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Esko, that pillow is a great idea!  For long periods of dash diving, it 
>would probably be good to have some sort of head mounted lights.  Welder's 
>supply store?

I have a "headlamp" that came from a mountaineering outfit called REI.
Have seen similar gadgets elsewhere, basically a little battery pack
and bulb put together on a headband. Have also seen a 2-light setup
that you wear like eyeglasses, but don't know how well that works nor
whether you can wear it along with regular eyeglasses as well.

>The right most odometer bulb socket is loose on my '77 D88.  In addition to 
>squeezing the contact together (battery disconnected!),

Well, turning the lights off would be enough, I think.  :-)

>I think I'll try 
>dabbing a bit of solder onto the bulb contacts to make the contacts larger. 

Unless I'm mistaken, that bulb is a wedge-base (either #194 or #168) and
doesn't have a contact per se, but a pair of wire loops on opposite sides
of the base. But your intermittent contact is probably the fault of the
ear contacts against the circuit board and maybe the inner clips where
they touch the bulb wires, so once you've poked around with those thingies
the light should be better. Usually works for me.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:04:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 86 Salon W?

On 26 Sep 96 at 11:47, Howes, Jim wrote:
> Hi, forgive the stupid question but
> 
> During the verbal intercourse(like that?) there are always
> references to W30 or WXX is that referring to the engine?  Like the
> LT1 or the L88 in the Vettes?

No stupid questions, just stupid answers (like this one - I could be 
wrong...)

The W-codes often represent a specific option package offered by the 
factory on certain models.  Often, a code may not be rare, i.e. FE3 - 
the standard GM 'sport' suspension on many cars (like my Quad442), or 
it can be quite rare - as I think I read yesterday, C-41 option on a 
92 or 93 Achieva SCX with the W-41 option (16 made).

In my case, a W-40 Quad442 gets the performance parts for the model, 
such as special brakes, exhaust, engine, tranny, etc. but a W-41 
Quad442 would have a little more potent engine and race-specific 
gearing, and the non-ability to get certain options like power 
windows, locks, etc...

Hope this helps - 

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:09:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442) 

>Where can I get a Hollander book? I've seen them at the yards,
>but haven't noticed them at swap meets.

They're reference books like any other book, so eventually you
should come across one where books are sold. I sort of lucked into
mine when a mechanic friend gave it to me during a garage cleanout.

>Do you get a book for your model year or do you try to get a 
>couple of years around your model year? 

It covers a span of years (I'd guess perhaps 10-15 depending on
how frequently the models change). I suppose you'd want to figure
out what span of years would relate to your particular car and
use that as a guide to which older book you might want to find.

Mine is Copyright 1983, and its listings tend to go back as far
as the late '60's. If you want to contact Hollander directly, the
info as of this '83 book is:

Hollander Publishing Company, Inc.
12320 Wayzata Boulevard (or P.O. Box 9405)
Minnetonka, Minnesota, 55343

(612) 544-4111

(Isn't that one of the stranger street addresses you've ever seen? :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:18:09 -0300
Subject: RE: Shipping weights (Was: 86 Salon engine?)

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK, My registration states gross weight at 4009lbs. I take it this is curb 
weight, since my VIN
 describes more than what would be included in the shipping weight?

- ----------
From: 	JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com[SMTP:JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, September 26, 1996 11:31 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Shipping weights (Was: 86 Salon engine?)

          
A Z/28 is more like 3500 - 3700 lbs... not a whole lot lighter than your 
Cutlass.
Geez, even Vettes, the lightest cars GM put V8s into, weigh 3000+.
          
A 4,000 Cutlass??  Big Red, which is a convertible with a heavier frame than 
the
hardtop,
barely touches 3,700...
          

          Be careful not to confuse shipping weights with actual curb 
          weights.  The shipping weight on my 70 W-30 is something 
          like 3400 lbs; actual weight is probably a lot closer to 
          3700+ lbs.  4000 lbs with late model 5 mph bumpers, side 
          impact beams, extra sound deadening, power everything, a/c, 
          T-tops, etc, etc, is not unreasonable.  I was floored when I 
          weighted by crewcab dually 4x4 - shipping weight is listed 
          as 4900 lbs.  Actual weight (empty truck, usual detritus 
          behind the seat, one tank full, driver only) was a whopping 
          6600 lbs!  Either the shipping weight is optimistic or I 
          need to go on a dramatic diet!
          
          BTW, the Corvette is not that light.  Keep in mind that the 
          car is designed as though the fiberglass body takes no 
          structual loads whatsoever, so there is a lot of steel in 
          the frame and in body reinforcements embedded in the 'glass.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30





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------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:22:35 -0300
Subject: Question ?

Can any one recommend a good Olds Dealer(ya I know:() or repair shop on
my area that I could use with out feeling like I may raped?

I live in Mount Airy, MD but work in the Rockville/Gaithersburg area.

Thanks 
Jim Howes
howesj@nasd.com
Easy Rider, Lookin for a reliable shop.

>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:23:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Found '70 W31 

>> I told the guy I'd think about it. I think no more than $2k is
>> about the right neighborhood for a car that needs this much.
>
>That's right!  A car w/this many mods (& silly ones too) may have more 
>problems than meets the eye.  2K would be my limit unless it runs 
>terrific.

I didn't want to be the first to say this, but judging from the
nicely detailed description of the car, I'd have to agree that
this thing sounds like an absolute roach motel. I see no reason to
assume that its mechanical condition is going to be much better than
its physical/cosmetic condition.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:37:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Dashlights

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> > Esko, that pillow is a great idea!  For long periods of dash diving, it 

Well, it was not my idea. It was actually my wife Anneli who was thinkful.
And I can tell you, it really makes the job a lot more pleasant.

I have a lantern with a fluorescent tube. It makes a strong, shadowless
light.

A chat between my wife and Travis revealed that the pronounciation of her
name is very near of Anna Lee.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:40:43 -0300
Subject: request (list related) -- please read

I have a little problem, and I need your help.  Due to the crazy way
mail gets handled at my company, any message that has a period ('.')
on a line by itself gets truncated.  The MTA (mail transfer agent)
interperts this as the end of the message.  This is beyond my power
to fix/change.

I discovered this with Greg B's help after several of the 
oldsmobile-digest messages came to me truncated.  Usually they have a 
line at the end that reads "End of Digest #<blah>" but these just 
stopped for no aparent reason.  After some tracking we found that in 
every case the line they stopped on was a line that had only a period 
on it.  I fired off a few test messages to confirm, and now I'm sure.  
Any message that contains a line "." gets cut off on that line.

With that in mind, I have the following request: please don't send 
messages to the list that contain a line with only a period in them.  
Please check/change your sig's for this kind of line.  If you quote 
something that someone else has written, please make sure that the
text doesn't wrap around so that you end up period on a line by itself.  
(besides it looks ugly, and we need to trim our quotes more anyway)

What's happened with the digest list is that I'll get a few messages
into it and then one of the "culprit" messages shows up and the whole 
rest of the digest is lost.  (side note, if any of you have sent 
messages to the list expecting me to reply and I haven't, this is why.
please send them to me directly if you want to ensure a reply)

I'm looking into other solutions for this problem, (like fixing the
MTA here or getting the list to do something "special" for those
lines) but in the meantime this is the only way I can think of to
keep me reading (all of) the olds list.

Lastly, this is _not_ directed at any one specific person.  If it were
I would just ask that person privatly.  Anybody can accidently (or even 
on purpose as part of a sig or a diagram) put that kind of line in a 
message.  And why not?  There's no reason for someone to think that it 
would cause problems.  Really it shouldn't, but my brain-dead MTA just
cuts off as soon as it sees that line. <grumble> stupid MTA <grumble>

Thanks everybody!

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:43:38 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305 

     Here's the big question:  How the heck would I get a stock eliminator 
     class 307 to push my car into the Mid-12's???  Gut interior, remove 
     body and most of frame, then sit on engine and work throttle?  I'd 
     have to get the calculator out, but doesn't running 12's require 
     something around 500hp?
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/25/96 5:05 PM

     one of my favorite classes is stock eliminator, and if anyone is 
     familiar with this class you know the rules are very strict(no head 
     porting, stock intake and carb etc...) and I have seen both late model 
     chevy mailbu's and cutlass' with theses engines and both cars seem to 
     be pretty even (mid to late 12's).

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:52:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Question ?

> Can any one recommend a good Olds Dealer(ya I know:() or repair shop on
> my area that I could use with out feeling like I may raped?
> 
> I live in Mount Airy, MD but work in the Rockville/Gaithersburg area.
> 
> Thanks 
> Jim Howes
> howesj@nasd.com
> Easy Rider, Lookin for a reliable shop.
> 
> >
> 
> 
Jim, if you'll phone me @ home, I have several ideas.  I live in Gaithersburg.

Regards,

Doug Kitchener
301/948-4867
Best time is 9-11 PM but will be in the house this afternoon (temporarily 
unemployed!)

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:02:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Salon weight

> My '86 Cutlass 442 has a curb weight of approximately 4200 lbs (says so
> on the sticker inside the drivers door).  Have to remember the glass in
> those t-tops weigh a lot more than a metal roof would.

The GVWR figure printed on the door is the gross weight, not the curb
weight.  The gross figure includes the maximum recommended load capacity
(passengers + cargo).  I don't recall the figure for the mid-size cars of
this generation, but the full-size (B & C bodies) are rated at 1100 lbs.
It is necessary to subtract this figure from the GVWR.  For example, a '77
Custom Cruiser I know of has a GVWR of 5790 lbs, but since the total
capacity for large wagons is 1200 lbs, the actual vehicle weight is only
4590 lbs.  I've noticed that the figures are usually a bit higher than
what appears in brochures; I suppose these weights are for cars without
options.
 
Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:02:16 -0300
Subject: 12 second 305's

Could he be talking about 1/8 mile racing.

Steve

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:49:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442)

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Hollander Publishing Company, Inc.
> 12320 Wayzata Boulevard (or P.O. Box 9405)

        ^^^^^^^ Wuzzat again?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:03:37 -0300
Subject: Re: request (list related) -- Answer

Travis McWaters wrote:
> 
> Due to the crazy way mail gets handled at my company, any message that 
> has a period ('.') on a line by itself gets truncated.  The MTA (mail 
> transfer agent) interperts this as the end of the message.

Travis,

MTA's not crazy.  In Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) a line 
containing only a period *IS* the end of message indicator.  The problem 
is on the SENDER side.

>From SMTP protocol:

"1. Before sending a line of mail text the sender-SMTP checks
    the first character of the line. If it is a period, one additional 
    period is inserted at the beginning of the line."

"2. When a line of mail text is received by the receiver-SMTP
    it checks the line. If the line is composed of a single period it is 
    the end of mail. If the first character is a period and there
    are other characters on the line, the first character is deleted."

So when the Sender sends a line containing only a period, the Sender 
software is supposed to send two periods (..), not one.  Which looks like 
a problem back in MajorDomo.

Sorry, Greg.   :(

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:13:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile contact list form 

>Oh and Bryceman, I sort of "borrowed" a background from
>your page-- I hope that you don't mind ;-)
>I at least edited it before using it!  If you do mind send me e-mail, and
>I will figure something else out.  The form is at:
>http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html

I dont mind at all. I will also be happy to host the form on the Olds page
if you like.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:07:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442) 

>> Hollander Publishing Company, Inc.
>> 12320 Wayzata Boulevard (or P.O. Box 9405)
>        ^^^^^^^ Wuzzat again?

I kid you not.

Hey, next month we're moving to Wacker Drive. That name alone was
good enough to merit several jokes when Jay Leno was last in town
(or was it Letterman...?)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:06:47 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: Types of Oil Dipsticks 

     Aha!  If it is 7qts then that would explain my SO's truck.  It's a 78 
     diesel converted to a 77 Olds 350.  It takes 7 quarts to fill.  They 
     must have used the old diesel pan on the new engine.  The pan looks 
     stock and I can't find any aftermarket names (like Milodon, etc) 
     stamped on it.  The oil cooler is no longer there.
     
     It's also possible that her dipstick is just messed up and it's really 
     a toro pan that we've been putting 1qt too much in.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: Types of Oil Dipsticks
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/26/96 7:36 AM


Is the die&sell pan larger than 5qt?  My '78 manual lists the diesel oil 
capacity at 7qts, but that would include 1 in the filter, 1 in the oil 
cooler.  ???
     
David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- -------------
<snip>
Olds pans are 4 or 5 qt. and one in filter.
     
W Machines
     
     

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:44:17 -0300
Subject: Style number for  98  Holiday sports sedan 1964

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Somebody please, tell me the style number for
Ninety Eight, Holiday sports sedan, year 1964.

I need it urgently to check my order from Fusick.

Hope they didn't mix the RR-weatherstrip.


**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:22:25 -0300
Subject: The style number APO:s

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Hope you didn't jump off your chairs to check that number.

I fixed this problem the other way round.

Thank you anyway.

Going to sleep now.

Not full moon today but starry sky though.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:29:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Cutlass 350 header problems

You wrote: 
>
>I have a 73 Cutlass with a 350, and I am trying to put on a set of 
Heddman
>headers.  Driver's side is on with no real problems as of yet, 
although, I
>think a starter problem may develop.  The passenger side is a problem 
though,
>the oil filter is in the way, and even with that removed, there is 
still not
>enough room between the engine and the frame to get the header into 
position.
> Has anyone out there put headers on a 73 350 car?  Do I pull the head 
off?
> Raise the engine?  Take it to someone who knows what they're doing?
>
>
Try jacking the car up about 2 ft in the air at the front.  This is 
what I must do each time I remove or install the RS hedder in my '78 
Malibou with a 455 Olds (and this car is tighter and the engine wider 
than yours).  The idea is to come up at a more vertical entrance which 
does the trick.

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:18:00 -0300
Subject: Aha!  If it is 7qts....

According to Mondello, the pan is not larger.  Only Toro pans have a 5 Qt 
capacity.  The Diesel pan is not bigger.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:45:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Aha!  If it is 7qts.... 

I'm not saying you or Mondello is wrong or lying, but has anyone actually 
compared the two or measured the capacity?  Of course that diesel radiator 
w/oil cooler is a cheap way to have an oil cooler and 3 core radiator.

Anyone taken the diesel rods and pistons and made a nice high compression 
350 race motor?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------------
According to Mondello, the pan is not larger.  Only Toro pans have a 5 Qt 
capacity.  The Diesel pan is not bigger.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:54:23 -0300
Subject: Re: trans lines 

I've found a Vise Grip wrench is often the best method to start the 
loosening process.  Starting of course with a nice dose of penetrating oil, 
followed by enough VG pressure to grip the hex, but not crush the hex.  
Just try to crack the rust bond, readjusting the VG pressure if slipping.  
When it cracks, apply more penetrating oil and then rock the hex back and 
forth, adding more PO as you go.  Now use the flare nut wrench.

The hot air gun is a good idea!  Gotta try that next time.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------
Re frozen trans lines, spray w/ WD40 (W30!) or Liquid Wench, use a hot air gun 
(for stripping paint) and heat 'em up, then loosen w/line wrench (aka 
flare-nut 
wrench).  Also works with brake lines.  Good luck!

Doug Kitchener
'70 C/S conv, '72 Vista Crusher, '63 Starfire (Starfire's for sale)
PS, Hi, am new here, just got email.  Am VP of Starfire Chapter, OCA, and 
membership sec'y of Toronado Chapter.  Adios.

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:00:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems 

At 02:14 PM 9/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>My TH350 transmission has some problems that I can't figure out.  I think
>they may be related to the torque converter.
>
>1.   When car is in gear with my foot on the brake, car surges.  My
>friends car doesn't do that, and I don't think mine's supposed to, either.

I have no comment on other responses about torque convertor lockup, but this
is also a sign of a vacuum leak.
>
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:13:59 -0300
Subject: re: 70 W-31

This car got me remembering a certain Rallye 350 I tried to buy.
The druggie that had it would not sell it to me for a fair price
and I did not buy it. He did sell me the hood and all of the parts 
that went with it including the complete air cleaner set up. Two weeks 
later one of his buddys stopped me and said that I better go check out 
the car again because the owner was taking it to the Demo-derby. I 
rushed to the car and found the windows busted out and the body had
been beat with a sledge hammer. The body was in decent shape previous 
to the sledge. At that point I was able to get the back seat cushions 
and the rear deck spoiler. The car still had the original drive train. 
Needless to say I still kick myself for not paying his price and saving 
this car. 

Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2
	
ps The parts I bought from this car have been sold long ago.

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:24:26 -0300
Subject: A  truly disgusting sight

I was in Indianapolis this morning and spotted a 71 Cutlass trying to
be a 4-4-2. It was painted two tone black over grey with painted on
W-30 style stripes. It also had 4-4-2 painted on the doors and big
stripes down the hood and trunk ala Ch*velle. The most disgusting part
was the 4-4-2 tail pipes sticking through holes that had been cut into 
the bumper. These were round holes about 2 inches above the bottom.
I did not point out these things to the driver since he and his 
passenger were big, hairy, and ugly.
	
Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:19:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

>>If your '83 88 is anything like my '78 Electra (which is pretty likely), the
>>dash lights would be accessible after you remove the _top_ of the dash. The
>>dash pad should be secured by a line of screws across the defroster vents,
>>another line under the front-top of the dashboard, and one on each end.
>>
>>Then again, maybe not.
>
>Not.  :-)  It mostly comes out the front on the newer cars (say, '77 up).

Hang on, let me rephrase that.

On older cars, say, prior to '77, I think it was definitely easier to
remove the dash pad from on top; in fact you often have no choice: it's
either up from in back/underneath, or from on top after removing the
dash pad, because the front face was sealed and nothing came out that
way. Major contortions needed no matter what. Try changing the clock
on a '72 A-body, for example.

But starting in the mid-'70's (I'm fudging 'cause it definitely varies
from one model to the next), they had an attack of common sense and
made a lot more stuff accessible from the front. You could actually
sit in the seat and play the radio while you worked on the dash. The
typical servicing routine now became a matter of removing the front
plastic faceplate(s), then proceeding from there with whatever you
wanted to remove next. That's the case with the '83 88, for example,
and with your '78 Electra. Actually, I've worked on those cars and
hadn't thought to remove the dash pad, I guess because I didn't need
to at the time...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:29:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Style number for 98 Holiday sports sedan 1964

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 Esko.Ilola@tele.telebox.fi wrote:

> Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Somebody please, tell me the style number for
> Ninety Eight, Holiday sports sedan, year 1964.
> 
> I need it urgently to check my order from Fusick.
> 
> Hope they didn't mix the RR-weatherstrip.


Esko,

This information is right in the 1964 Olds Service Manual (Vol. 1) which I 
thought you said in an earlier post you had.  On page 1-2, the 
"Designation Series Style" for the 98 Holiday Sports Sedan is 3839.

This information is also stamped into the plate ("body and style plate") 
located under the hood below the right windshied wiper.  This plate will 
have the style number in the upper left corner.  It will say 
STYLE00-0000, where the first two digits are the year and the second four 
are the style number.  For your car, then, this should say STYLE64-3839.

Hope this helps.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:55:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems -Reply 

>>> Spud <spud@kudonet.com> 09/26/96 01:00pm >>>
At 02:14 PM 9/23/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I have no comment on other responses about torque convertor lockup,
>but this is also a sign of a vacuum leak.

Thanks, Spud!  I had a small impression that it might be a vacuum leak. 
Now the question is, how do I check that?  What function(s) does
vacuum perform in the tranny?  

I should also note that my kickdown doesn't seem to work.  When I'm
going up a hill in third gear and the engine starts to lug down, shouldn't it
drop down into 2nd?  Also, shouldn't it kick down anytime I go from part
throttle into WOT?  Like when I punch it to pass someone on the
freeway...  

Thanks again everyone for your help with this.  I'm gonna have to go
with Spud on the first prob, because it'd be easier and cheaper to check
vac. leaks than a torque convertor.

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:16:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

Graham Stewart wrote:

Hi folks ...
Well, I'm about to replace my water pump tomorrow (74 Ninety-Eight, 455
cid.).

I plan to replace the fuel pump at the
same time for the same reason ... 

Spud says:

I'd leave until it's needed, bu5t if you've got the time and inclination, it
couldn't hurt anything.

Robert Barry said:

That might actually be coolant coming out from your weep hole because your
bearing in there is going, but whatever the case, you're replacing it anyway.

then Andrew C. Green responded:

I was thinking the same thing; I don't recall ever finding a leaky gasket
on a good water pump. It's always leaking from the weep hole because the
pump's gone bad.

And Spud pipes in:

This is in line with my experience.  At least with water pumps.

Robert Barry again:

Go easy on the gasket sealant! The excess can get into your coolant stream
and gunk things up (radiator, thermostat, etc.)

Andrew reples:

Agreed. My favorite for this job is K&W Copper Coat, just as a data point.

Andd Spud goes on:

My favorite general purpose gasket glue is Gasgacinch.  It's a latex based
adhesive that is intended to hold gaskets in place until fitted, not as a
sealer.

Permatex Ultra Blue works well where oil is present (valve cover gaskets
differential covers...) and a sealer is needed.

However, there is a philosophy I think is good, that  states gasket sealers
shouldn't be used, unless a good seal cannot be achieved without one.  If
the gasket mating surfaces are smooth, flat and unpitted, a sealer is
unnecessary.  Sometimes sealers make complete gasket removal difficult or
impossible during future repairs.

and David Brown offered a saged thought:

Keep the water pump for a cheap backup (clean, lube, preserve in plastic - 
won't rust or seize up).  Because it is original and a factory casting, it 
might be a sought after part.

Good thinking for anyone concerned with keeping a car squeeky-clean
original, too.  Core charges aren't all that much to eat.  If you have the
bucks sometime in the future, someone can probably be found that can rebuild
the original equipment for you.  That's what used to happen, before an
industry developed around providing cheap, mass-rebuilt replacement parts.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:02:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems -Reply 

>Thanks, Spud!  I had a small impression that it might be a vacuum leak. 
>Now the question is, how do I check that?  What function(s) does
>vacuum perform in the tranny? 

Via the modulator valve, it signals shift points to the transmission.
I'm staying out of the heavy detail because this isn't my area at all,
but it might be a good idea to check the line leading to the shift
modulator and see if it's wet with leaking trans fluid (seeping through
a bad modulator valve). Also see if there's a vacuum draw on that line
(there should be).

I'd start with some easy stuff: visually inspecting the vacuum lines
on and around the engine to look for breakage, leaks or misrouting.
See if you have good vacuum draw at idle by teeing in a vacuum gauge.
If the car is A/C-equipped but the vent settings don't seem to work
properly in the dash (especially the VENT mode to blow air through
the dashboard face-level vents), suspect a vacuum leak somewhere.
(Whether the A/C system itself is working doesn't matter.)

>I should also note that my kickdown doesn't seem to work.

Um... things to check: (1) The modulator valve (find under the car
where a vacuum line connects at the side of the transmission); (2) the
kickdown cable, leading from the carb linkage to the trans; (3) slide
or plunger switch above the gas pedal... If So Equipped...  ;-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:17:01 -0300
Subject: RE: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

At 04:53 AM 9/25/96 -0300, Esko wrote:
>> Is there a way to get at them? This one looks like a major job. It looks
>> like it takes a contortionist to get behind the dash from below.
>
>You need the following tools:
>- a pillow and a plastic bag to put the pillow into. The bag is to
>  keep your wife happy.
>- a lantern to have light in the darkest spots
>- good imagination to picture out how the things look by just
>  touching them because you can't see everything

and...safety glasses!  Gads, the crap I've had to get out of my eyes before
I gave in.  Since the area will be dark, you'll need the glasses clean and
scratch free, to ensure a good look see.  Available at most hardware stores
and safety supply houses.  Or, cop some from work, if your conscience can
handle it.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:01:28 -0300
Subject: '77 442

Thanks everyone for your info about the different parts that will fit my 
77.  Now could you help me find some of these parts.  Its my sons car and 
he had a little fender bender so mom decided we might as well restore it 
since it needs so much body work after the accident.
Any help will be appreciated.
We're located in Iowa but we would travel a little ways to get parts.

Chris

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:19:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Question ? 

If you want the best work done on the east coast, check out Ray Hauser,
Hauser Automotive, in Va. Beach, Va. Not too much of a drive and definitely
well worth it. Ray has over 35 years experience working with Oldsmobiles and
is top notch. I consider him a mentor, as he taught me a few tricks to get
the most out of my Cutlass. But, as a godd teacher should, he never taught me
ALL of his tricks. 
     This time of year is a good time to venture to Va Beach, because tourist
season is pretty much over with. I would definitely call ahead for an appt.
He is open on some saturdays, except during racing season. His number is
804-498-8136(?)
I think. If not, he is in the phione book.

Katana72             It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile         Hastings, MN 

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:20:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile contact list form

> I at least edited it before using it!  If you do mind send me e-mail, and 
> I will figure something else out.  The form is at:
> http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html

Well, I added my name to the list, but I didn't see a way
to see who else was on the list.  Doesn't that kind of
defeat the point?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: jblair@exis.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:27:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442) 

> Where can I get a Hollander book? I've seen them at the yards, but
> haven't noticed them at swap meets. Do you get a book for your
> model year or do you try to get a couple of years around your 
> model year? 
>

I haven't seen them for sale at swap meets either, nor do any of
the major book/magazine guys sell them.  The only place I've seen
them is in Hemmings.  However, I just went through the Sept. 96
issue and didn't see their add.  They have about 12 volumnes that
cover domestics (American) since the early 1900's to today, and 1
import book I believe.

John
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@exis.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

The one with the most toys, wins!

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:30:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile contact list form

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> Well, I added my name to the list, but I didn't see a way
> to see who else was on the list.  Doesn't that kind of
> defeat the point?

He's working on it, he's working on it.  Give the kid a break.

(You ARE working on it, aren't you kid?)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:31:08 -0300
Subject: RE: '77 442 

I also have 77 442  Black/gold
it seems they are very rare
do you know how much they are worth

Jason Hairston
jth442@msn.com

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Chris Blumenstein
Sent: 	Thursday, September 26, 1996 6:01 PM
To: 	olds
Subject: 	'77 442

Thanks everyone for your info about the different parts that will fit my 
77.  Now could you help me find some of these parts.  Its my sons car and 
he had a little fender bender so mom decided we might as well restore it 
since it needs so much body work after the accident.
Any help will be appreciated.
We're located in Iowa but we would travel a little ways to get parts.

Chris

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:32:56 -0300
Subject: Motor VIN Number Help!!!! (Please) 

I requested some help earlier this week to aid in identifying my motor that
goes in my 81 cutlass wagon. The number on the block is barely legible. I
really would appreciate some help in identifying this beast so I can get the
emissions test waived. The eight choices that I could figure out are as
follows:
1) 3411240535 
2) 3411240585
3) 3411240583
4) 3411240533
5) 3A11240535
6) 3A11240533
7) 3A11240585
8) 3A11240583

The numbers in question are the 2nd number in the sequence and the last two
numbers. I know that there must be somebody out there that has easy access to
this info. Any and ALL help would be greatfully appreciated. The only thing
that I know about the motor is that it supposedly came out of a 73 Olds of
some sort. It was purhased at a junkyard in Jordan, MN. It is a strong motor
and I really would like to keep it in my 81 wagon. Thanks


Katana72                 It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!!!!
  Hastings, MN 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:36:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo... 

     No, this didn't get hung up in net-limbo.  I'm really replying to a 
     6-month old message. . .
     
     Anyways, Tom M., I just tried calling Originality Plus looking for 
     this 120mph speedo.  They're out, and they have been looking for more 
     stock for a while now, but haven't given up.  They took my name/number 
     to call me if they ever find more.  I also tried the dealer, who did a 
     nationwide parts search for me.  No dice.
     
     Well, if anyone finds a source for a 120mph speedo in like-new 
     condition, let me know!
     
     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 120MPH Speedo...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/14/96 4:12 PM


Here is some info you might be interested in..
     
Instead of playing with a KM speedo, try to find a original 120mph unit.  I 
did a little research last year and found out that GM had a 120 speedo in the 
performance catalog back in '86 or '87???  After calling every dealer around 
with no one knowing what the hell I was talking about, I called the dealer 
from where my 86 442 was originally bought.  Sure enough, this guy had 
remembered seeing one and tracked down the part number for me: 
                               25083824  120mph Olds speedometer (for factory
gauge package)
     
The only problem is that GM doesn't make these anymore, but I think you can 
get one from Originality Plus 1.909.945.5466.  If anyone tries to get one, 
let me know.
     
                                       Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
     
PS  I am pretty sure these units also came stock in 87 442's.  I saw a few 
last year at Performance Sunday at Englishtown, NJ.  Can anyone back this 
up???
     

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:31:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305

It's actually not that hard, just look at a NHRA rule book, and if you 
don't believe me pickup a copy of National Dragster (published weekly) 
and you will see. Or better yet go to a dragstrip and see for yourself.

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:

> 
>      Here's the big question:  How the heck would I get a stock eliminator 
>      class 307 to push my car into the Mid-12's???  Gut interior, remove 
>      body and most of frame, then sit on engine and work throttle?  I'd 
>      have to get the calculator out, but doesn't running 12's require 
>      something around 500hp?
>      
>      Tom L.
> 
> ______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
> Subject: RE: 86 Salon engine Vs Chev 305
> Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
> Date:    9/25/96 5:05 PM
> 
>      one of my favorite classes is stock eliminator, and if anyone is 
>      familiar with this class you know the rules are very strict(no head 
>      porting, stock intake and carb etc...) and I have seen both late model 
>      chevy mailbu's and cutlass' with theses engines and both cars seem to 
>      be pretty even (mid to late 12's).
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:36:03 -0300
Subject: Hollander Advice 

>From what I've seen in the yards, this is an invaluable source of data.
I have a 66 98 convertible and parts interchange back as far as 62
Caddy (the door arm chrome) and forward to at least 76 (the death
of the venerable 455).

What edition(s) would I be looking for if I were to purchase this 
book? Also does anybody know if this is available (dare I ask?)
on CD? I saw their number in the recent posts, this puts them 
right outside St.Paul MN, where I go regularly. Do they have any
retail operation at all?

Of those of you who have the manual what editions do you have and
do you find them useful enough? Have heard they're pretty pricey
for an individual to own. Perhaps >$200. Can anyone confirm this?

curiouso
chris fair

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:58:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander Advice 

     This may not answer you question, but I noticed while I was down at 
     our local library a few days ago that they have a full set of 
     interchange manuals, back to 1961!  Cool!
     
     You might try checking your local library.  For as infrequently as I'm 
     planning to use them, it's a good solution.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Hollander Advice
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/26/96 3:51 PM
     
Of those of you who have the manual what editions do you have and 
do you find them useful enough? Have heard they're pretty pricey 
for an individual to own. Perhaps >$200. Can anyone confirm this?

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:13:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Hollander Advice

Chris,
I have one of these manuals that I bought at a swap meet several years ago. It 
is the 42nd. edition and covers the years 66 to 75. The book has obviously 
been 
heavily used, and I was tickled to death to get it for $50. Believe me, it has 
more than paid for itself.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:16:04 -0300
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo...

Tom,
120 mph speedo for what?

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:40:50 -0300
Subject: GM parts??? 

This might be a stab in the dark, but is there any such software/WEB page we
can obtain that has pictures/part numbers from GM parts manuals that the
dealer usually has? This would really help us locating GM parts...

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show 
86 442 -> Summer Driver 
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:56:08 -0300
Subject: Hollander 

$50 Hollander book? For the right edition (see my post, key year for me
is 1966) that's something I'd buy in a heartbeat.

cf

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:00:33 -0300
Subject: Re: The style number APO:s

Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi wrote:
> 
> Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Hope you didn't jump off your chairs to check that number.
> 
> I fixed this problem the other way round.
> 
> Thank you anyway.
> 
> Going to sleep now.
> 
> Not full moon today but starry sky though.
> 
> **********************************************
> * Esko Ilola                                 *


Esko,

You enjoy life too much.  Did someone tell you that the cold war was 
over or something.  Get worried!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:51:41 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 120MPH Speedo... 

     Oops!  I guess that info wasn't contained in the original message I 
     quoted.  Wassamatta, don't remember the conversation from 6 months 
     ago? :-)
     
     It's for my '84 H/O, but should also fit any other G-body with factory 
     gauges.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/26/96 4:36 PM


Tom,
120 mph speedo for what?
     
Art Fuller
     

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:19:06 -0300
Subject: Re: A  truly disgusting sight

> I did not point out these things to the driver since he and his
> passenger were big, hairy, and ugly.
> 
> Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2

Dave,

Sounds like some of us from the list - well 2 outa' 3 ain't bad.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:48 -0300
Subject: Re: trans lines 

At 12:11 AM 9/26/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Re frozen trans lines, spray w/ WD40 (W30!) or Liquid Wench, use a hot air 
gun 
>(for stripping paint) and heat 'em up, then loosen w/line wrench (aka
flare-nut 
>wrench).  Also works with brake lines.  Good luck!
>
>Doug Kitchener

I've also used Marvel Mystery Oil for this, with good success.  Stains, though.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:50 -0300
Subject: Funky place names (was Re: Hollander book (was Re: '77 442)) 

At 12:07 PM 9/26/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>> Hollander Publishing Company, Inc.
>>> 12320 Wayzata Boulevard (or P.O. Box 9405)
>>        ^^^^^^^ Wuzzat again?

Chortled Mike F.
>
>I kid you not.
>
>Hey, next month we're moving to Wacker Drive. That name alone was
>good enough to merit several jokes when Jay Leno was last in town
>(or was it Letterman...?)
>
>Andrew C. Green

Reminds me of a credit card offer I recieved recently from Wachovia Bank.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems -Reply 

At 04:55 PM 9/26/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>>> Spud <spud@kudonet.com> 09/26/96 01:00pm >>>
>At 02:14 PM 9/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>I have no comment on other responses about torque convertor lockup,
>>but this is also a sign of a vacuum leak.
>
>Thanks, Spud!  I had a small impression that it might be a vacuum leak. 
>Now the question is, how do I check that?  What function(s) does
>vacuum perform in the tranny?  
>
>-Blaine

The leak might not be at the tranny.  It could be at the base of the carb or
anywhere else.  Do the usual check of all rubber vacuum lines and vacuum
connections.  You could even have a leaky ported vacuum switch, if it's old
or been knocked around.  That failing, I have a hand vacuum pump that I use
for this and to bleed the brakes.  A basic process of elimination.  Carbs
and gasket matings need to be checked with the a wetting solution and the
car running.  Everthing else, use a pump.

There are at least a few brands of pump available, the most advertised being
"Mity Vac," sold in Eastwood and other catalogs.  Mine is neither aliminum
nor polymer bodied, but brass, brand named KAL Equipment.  It has a vacuum
gage on it and comes with a pretty good manual for trouble shooting.  Got it
in a kit for around $65 at a place called Auto Parts Club.  The plastic Mity
Vac goes for as cheap as $40.

That's about all the advice I can give, without getting real long winded.
And Mike Frederick can tell you, wind I got.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Antenna Straightening 

At 02:40 PM 9/25/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Anyone have any good ideas on how to straighten a bent power antenna mast?
>I thought you might be able to do it with a straight rod on the inside and
>insert it and the antenna tube to be fixed insidea another, but am not
>sure if there's a better way.
>
>Ideas?
>cf

Good luck.  If this idea will work at all, you'll probably have to do it in
steps.  The metal is a very hard (read brittle) variety.  You'll just as
likely wind up with cracks where the metal stretched as anything else, even
if its a small bend in the tube.  Let us know how this goes.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:46 -0300
Subject: Untorqueable brake line (was Re: Removing frozen tranny cooler lines 
(was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace) 

At 11:43 PM 9/25/96 -0300, Bob Barry wrote:

>The problem is not the fitting freezing in the radiator (or in the wheel
>cylinder, if you are doing brakes; same principle applies), but rather the
>line freezing/rusting to the fitting, such that when you turn the fitting
>you also turn/twist the line. If it twists too much, you can spring a leak
>(especially if it is corroded).
>
>- Bob Barry

This reminds me of a kind of inverse of this problem I'm having with the
brake line coming off the proportioning valve toward the rear on my Delta.
I can't seem to get it to tighten up.

What seems to be happening is something on the nut/flare mating surface is
catching on one another.  As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
line flex, placing a torsional torque on the connection.  I've tried
applying a counter torque on the line, but I'm leary of crushing or
destroying it.

After a day or two, the connection loosens and I either have to retighten it
or live with a fluid leak and brake fade.

What are my solutions, short of replacing the line?  I suck at bending
tubing, with or without a tubing bender.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:59:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

At 03:19 PM 9/26/96 -0300, AG wrote:
>>>If your '83 88 is anything like my '78 Electra (which is pretty likely), the
>>>dash lights would be accessible after you remove the _top_ of the dash. The
>>>dash pad should be secured by a line of screws across the defroster vents,
>>>another line under the front-top of the dashboard, and one on each end.
>>>
>>>Then again, maybe not.
>>
>>Not.  :-)  It mostly comes out the front on the newer cars (say, '77 up).
>
>Hang on, let me rephrase that.
>
>On older cars, say, prior to '77, I think it was definitely easier to
>remove the dash pad from on top; in fact you often have no choice: it's
>either up from in back/underneath, or from on top after removing the
>dash pad, because the front face was sealed and nothing came out that
>way.

This isn't the way my Delta works, but I admit to not having tried.
Wouldn't want to.

>Andrew C. Green


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:59:07 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 442

Jason Hairston wrote:
> 
> I also have 77 442  Black/gold
> it seems they are very rare
> do you know how much they are worth
> 
> Jason Hairston
> jth442@msn.com
> 
> ----------
> From:   oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Chris Blumenstein
> Sent:   Thursday, September 26, 1996 6:01 PM
> To:     olds
> Subject:        '77 442
> 
> Thanks everyone for your info about the different parts that will fit my
> 77.  Now could you help me find some of these parts.  Its my sons car and
> he had a little fender bender so mom decided we might as well restore it
> since it needs so much body work after the accident.
> Any help will be appreciated.
> We're located in Iowa but we would travel a little ways to get parts.
> 
> Chris
>		
>
>Jason HairstonIt depends what kind of shape your car is in I talked to a guy 
in 
Arkansas that wanted 1800 dollars for his and his sounded in worse shape 
than mine is in and mine has been wrecked.
What kind of shape is yours in?  And are you interested in selling?
Where you located?  I'm in Iowa.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:24:12 -0300
Subject: Re: A  truly disgusting sight

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> > I did not point out these things to the driver since he and his
> > passenger were big, hairy, and ugly.
>
> Sounds like some of us from the list - well 2 outa' 3 ain't bad. 
Couldn'ta been.  Sparky, me, and Gregg were elsewhere that day.

The 66 Toro and Hairy


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:53:18 -0300
Subject: Re: NE Olds Owners Meeting: Sat. it is 

Well, I don't know how much of a consensus there is, but a number of New
England Olds-list people have indicated that they would be able to meet at
noontime this Saturday at the sub-shop up the street from Berejick's Olds,
off exit 19a on Rt.128/I-95.

I'll be there in my '69 Toronado (the _very_ green one); Roger, are you
going to be there in your Cutlass Cruiser?

A couple people who would like to be there can't, so we'll also have to do
this again pretty soon. But again, this Saturday we are _ON_!

And if there are more than two of us, we beat the Chicago group for getting
together!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:09:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Radio...was Re: Def. of Convector 

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> 
> My generator has a condensor on the side of it (yes, just like one
> for an ignition system) that goes to one of the terminals.  Anybody 
> have an idea which one?  (Field coil or armature?)  Or, does anybody 
> have an idea why it's there?  

Noise suppression, I would imagine.  Keep the whine out of the radio.

Sorry for the delay,

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:27:43 -0300
Subject: RE: '77 442

At 06:31 PM 9/26/96 -0300, Jason Hairston wrote:
>I also have 77 442  Black/gold
>it seems they are very rare
>do you know how much they are worth

There were 11,649 442 Cutlass S Coupe's made in 1977. The second largest
production year next to 1970. I have seen a few 77 442's around the town
here where I live but both are in bad shape. 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 Cross-Fire 305/TH-350...daily driver
81 Camaro....soon to be TPI 383/3spd...street/strip car
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH-350...show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH-350...restoring now

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:32:28 -0300
Subject: stereo radio #

Can anybody tell me the part number of a 68 am/fm cutlass radio? Or, can 
anybody 
tell me what radio, part number 7311583 fits? My parts book does not have 
radios 
beyond '72.
Thanks

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:36:41 -0300
Subject: 72 cutlass cruiser

Anybody want to see a good looking 72 Cutlass station wagon, look at page 5 of 
the October JWO magazine. This car was at Nationals, and is now sitting in my 
garage in Texas. The previous owner is from Sarasota, Fla. and brought it to 
Nationals to draw attention to his parts for sale. I saw it and bought it from 
him.
I was surprised to see this picture.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:33:49 -0300
Subject: Re: NE Olds Owners Meeting: Sat. it is 

>I'll be there in my '69 Toronado (the _very_ green one); Roger, are you
>going to be there in your Cutlass Cruiser?

Well, it like this.  I will be bringing Steve from Peabody in my CC.  I have 
programming commitments, but my partner is understaning, so I will be going.

>A couple people who would like to be there can't, so we'll also have to do
>this again pretty soon. But again, this Saturday we are _ON_!

Do you have another date in mind?  I might be able to make that one too.

>And if there are more than two of us, we beat the Chicago group for getting
>together!

There will be at least 3.  Wow, my last event before I'm 22.  Of course, 
tonight's eclipse is pretty cool too.  Except for those in Ca, where it is not 
dark enough...

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:48:34 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 442 

In a message dated 96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	'77 442
>Date:	96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT
>From:	bluffin@netins.net (Chris Blumenstein)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca (olds)
>
>Does anyone have any idea where I can find a 77 442 or body parts for one 
> I'am located in Iowa and have been unable to find anything for this car 
>except for in California, Georgia, Kansas, and South Carolina need to 
>find something closer to home.
>
>

Where are u at in Iowa, if you need body parts other that the front clip,
goto All makes auto farm in SE Des Moines, they've got a bunch of 75-77
Cutlasses down there, and 1 75 H/O.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 DesMoines,IA

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:56:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Types of Oil Dipsticks 6 QT. 

In a message dated 96-09-26 12:23:45 EDT, you write:

<< It's also possible that her dipstick is just messed up and it's really 
      a toro pan that we've been putting 1qt too much in.
 
 ______________________________ Reply Separator  >>
Yep your right, 6 qts with too much oil.  Look for a two humps on the bottom
of the oil pan, it would indicate it is a toro pan because the transaxle of a
toro
goes between the humps.  So the pan is either 4 qt or 5 qt with one qt in the

filter.  

W Machines

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:59:45 -0300
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo... 

>
>     No, this didn't get hung up in net-limbo.  I'm really replying to a 
>     6-month old message. . .
>     
>     Anyways, Tom M., I just tried calling Originality Plus looking for 
>     this 120mph speedo.  They're out, and they have been looking for more 
>     stock for a while now, but haven't given up.  They took my name/number 
>     to call me if they ever find more.  I also tried the dealer, who did a 
>     nationwide parts search for me.  No dice.
>     
>     Well, if anyone finds a source for a 120mph speedo in like-new 
>     condition, let me know!
>     
>     Tom Lentz
>     tlentz@teknon.com


I seem to remember one of my old Hot Rod magazines listing a supplier that
sells 120 mph speedos for m*nty c@rlos. (either that or c@m@ros, I can't
remember.  It's terrible to be senile at 19.)  They even sell 250 kph
speedos for Canadians.  Will a monte speedometer fit your `84 HO?  If it
will I'll try and find the issue in question and get the name and locale of
the supplier for you.  It may take awhile, the magazines are back at the
house and in no particular order.  (I'm in college 30 miles from home by the
way,  I usually get home once a week.)

Let me know if this info can help.

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista Cruiser 

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:55:45 -0300
Subject: RE: '77 442 

I have a 77 442 for sale in Houston, Texas
713-448-7582

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of DrkSole@aol.com
Sent: 	Thursday, September 26, 1996 9:48 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: '77 442

In a message dated 96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	'77 442
>Date:	96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT
>From:	bluffin@netins.net (Chris Blumenstein)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca (olds)
>
>Does anyone have any idea where I can find a 77 442 or body parts for one 
> I'am located in Iowa and have been unable to find anything for this car 
>except for in California, Georgia, Kansas, and South Carolina need to 
>find something closer to home.
>
>

Where are u at in Iowa, if you need body parts other that the front clip,
goto All makes auto farm in SE Des Moines, they've got a bunch of 75-77
Cutlasses down there, and 1 75 H/O.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme
 DesMoines,IA

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:58:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Untorqueable brake line (was Re: Removing frozen tranny cooler 
lines (was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace)

> This reminds me of a kind of inverse of this problem I'm having with the
> brake line coming off the proportioning valve toward the rear on my Delta.
> I can't seem to get it to tighten up.
> 
> What seems to be happening is something on the nut/flare mating surface is
> catching on one another.  As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
> line flex, placing a torsional torque on the connection.  I've tried
> applying a counter torque on the line, but I'm leary of crushing or
> destroying it.
> 
> After a day or two, the connection loosens and I either have to retighten it
> or live with a fluid leak and brake fade.
> 
> What are my solutions, short of replacing the line?  I suck at bending
> tubing, with or without a tubing bender.
> 
> Spud    

Spud,

Consider using a light oil (WD40) on the junction of the tubing & the 
nut.  This should give you the sliding motion you need between the parts 
& help in tightening the nut.  It also should squeeze out easily & not 
allow the nut to loosen.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:02:36 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 442

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT, you write:
> 
> >Subj:  '77 442
> >Date:  96-09-24 19:57:31 EDT
> >From:  bluffin@netins.net (Chris Blumenstein)
> >Sender:        oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> >Reply-to:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> >To:    oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca (olds)
> >
> >Does anyone have any idea where I can find a 77 442 or body parts for one
> > I'am located in Iowa and have been unable to find anything for this car
> >except for in California, Georgia, Kansas, and South Carolina need to
> >find something closer to home.
> >
> >
> 
> Where are u at in Iowa, if you need body parts other that the front clip,
> goto All makes auto farm in SE Des Moines, they've got a bunch of 75-77
> Cutlasses down there, and 1 75 H/O.
> DrkSole
>  73 Cutlass Supreme
>  DesMoines,IA
>
>
>Can you give me alittle more information on this place phone # etc I'm 20 
miles south of Iowa City but on backroads can be in Des Moines in 1 
1/2 hours   Thanks

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:24:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Untorqueable brake line (was Re: Removing frozen tranny cooler  
lines (was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace) 

.  As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
>line flex, placing a torsional torque on the connection.  I've tried
>applying a counter torque on the line, but I'm leary of crushing or
>destroying it.
>
>After a day or two, the connection loosens and I either have to retighten it
>or live with a fluid leak and brake fade.
>
>What are my solutions, short of replacing the line?  I suck at bending
>tubing, with or without a tubing bender.
>
>
>Spud     "Fart proudly."
>'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
>'73 Delta 88
>'79 LeBaron

Sorry if this is obvious or stated earlier.  I haven't been following the
thread closely.

I've had limited sucess (works more often than not) with tightening and
loosening the nut just like I was chasing the threads.  Getting it tight as
possible without torqueing the line and then loose as possible without
torqueing the line, stopping now and then to liberally soak the thing with
WD-40.  It's a good idea to soak with WD-40(liquid wrench, anything of that
nature) overnight before you start.  It takes a good while but seems to work
well.

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:24:20 -0300
Subject: RE: 72 cutlass cruiser 

>Anybody want to see a good looking 72 Cutlass station wagon, look at page 5 
of 
>the October JWO magazine. This car was at Nationals, and is now sitting in my 
>garage in Texas. The previous owner is from Sarasota, Fla. and brought it to 
>Nationals to draw attention to his parts for sale. I saw it and bought it 
from 
>him.
>I was surprised to see this picture.

Art,

Where can I get a copy of this magazine?

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:33:00 -0300
Subject: Heads Up! 

     Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.
Ooooh man is it cool!  I got a different speed sensor, so now everything
works right.  I have to mount it ~properly~ yet, but it's there and working,
anyway.  I put a different speed sensor in the car (Original replacement
type) and that's all I needed (besides time...)  This speed sensor, however,
is from a Canadian car, so I have to set the HUD to km/h, but it shows
numbers as miles (when it says 60 km/h, I'm going 60 mph.  Which is ~REALLY~
ironic, since the speedometer shows 67!)  I think I'll need some more
experimentation with the speed sensor yet...   Someday...  Right now it
works, and that's all that really matters for now.
     I no longer have a camera, so I can't take pic's of it, (I don't know
if they'd turn out or not, anyway,) so I can't show anyone here what it
does.  You'll all just have to take my word that it is ~too cool~ !!!  
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:38:45 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio #

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 mefco@sprynet.com wrote:

> Can anybody tell me the part number of a 68 am/fm cutlass radio? Or, can 
anybody 
> tell me what radio, part number 7311583 fits? My parts book does not have 
radios 
> beyond '72.
> Thanks
> 
> Art Fuller

This isn't going to help much.... I know that in Cutlasses in '68 you 
could only get an am/fm mono radio (no Wonderbar or Stereo near as I can 
tell). I have the mono in mine. My parts catalog doesn't even list it 
though, just am-only, am/fm stereo, and Wonderbar. Hmmm. None of the #s 
are even close:

AM	982978
Stereo	982980
W'bar	982979 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:46:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up! 

At 12:33 AM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.
>Ooooh man is it cool! 

Yeah, that came out when I was selling Oldsmobiles, I really liked it to
(had a demo International Series). I just wished the engineers had figured a
way to hide the "projector" in the dash instead of on top like an afterthought.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems -Reply 

>>Thanks, Spud!  I had a small impression that it might be a vacuum leak. 
>>Now the question is, how do I check that?  What function(s) does
>>vacuum perform in the tranny?  
>>
>>-Blaine
>
>The leak might not be at the tranny.  It could be at the base of the carb or
>anywhere else.  Do the usual check of all rubber vacuum lines and vacuum
>connections.  

Don't forget that if you have a steel line running to the modulator, the may
be a 2 inch legnth of hose that connects the modulator with the line. It
could be rotten.  I found out this was bad on one of my transmissions.
(helped shift  points but didn't fix the original problem I had)  You may
want to remove the modulator to make sure it's working.  I checked one once
that seemed to be holding vacuum fine when attatched to the transmission.
When it was removed, transmission fluid poured out of the vacuum port of the
modulator, indicating that it was in fact leaking.  I guess it may have been
an intermittent leak or maybe the fluid was sealing the leak somehow.  If
you remove the modulator, try and get things clean in the general area, you
don't want any dirt going in the transmission.  

>There are at least a few brands of pump available, the most advertised being
>"Mity Vac," sold in Eastwood and other catalogs.  Mine is neither aliminum
>nor polymer bodied, but brass, brand named KAL Equipment.  It has a vacuum
>gage on it and comes with a pretty good manual for trouble shooting.  Got it
>in a kit for around $65 at a place called Auto Parts Club.  The plastic Mity
>Vac goes for as cheap as $40.

Check Wal-Mart.  I picked a plastic Mightyvac up there which came with a
vacuum cannister for bleeding brakes and some assorted fittings.  A very
handy little tool to have....Should be a vacuum pump in every garage.

Maybe the next thing to check; the governor.  Does anyone know offhand if
there is a port on the transmission to check governor pressure?  It migh
possibly be the cause of the problem. I don't have my repair manual with me
right now to check and make sure.  

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:06:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile contact list form 

Yeah, that looks much better.  That great big open space at the bottom is
missing something though.  Maybe a ~great big~ picture of a 455 with a
blower, dual quads, big headers, and nitrous, sitting on a stand would go
well there.... :)  Anyone have one that will fit???

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:06:02 -0300
Subject: Re: A  truly disgusting sight 

>I was in Indianapolis this morning and spotted a 71 Cutlass trying to
>be a 4-4-2. It was painted two tone black over grey with painted on
>W-30 style stripes. It also had 4-4-2 painted on the doors and big
>stripes down the hood and trunk ala Ch*velle. The most disgusting part
>was the 4-4-2 tail pipes sticking through holes that had been cut into 
>the bumper. These were round holes about 2 inches above the bottom.
>I did not point out these things to the driver since he and his 
>passenger were big, hairy, and ugly.

     Let me guess, it had a ~454~ in it, too?  Some people should be
required to show certain certifications before being allowed to purchase
spray paint!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:05:55 -0300
Subject: Re: rallye pack guage swap 

>
>    I was wondering if anyone has ever swapped in the rallye pack guage 
>cluster from an '80s cutlass?  Right now i have the basic sweeping speedo 
>with fuel guage.  I bought the guage package back in August and had my 
>mechanic try to install it for me.  He couldn't quite figure out the 
>wiring harness.  So i was hoping someone out there could either tell me 
>of a shop manual that has extensive coverage of the harness or has done 
>this project and might be able to give me some advice on this.

     Been there, done it...  Never found any manual to speak of, I had to
trace every wire the old fashioned way.  The pins come out of the plugs
quite easily with a small screwdriver, and many need to be moved around.  I
have no written info of what went where, but I took things one step at a
time.  A continuity meter of some form will help a lot (for double checking
oil and water temp wires...)  You'll need to stick another wire in there for
the tach (if it has one) and for that, you'll need to rob pin connectors
from a donor harness plug.  While at this stage, it's always nice to get a
few extras for later, because there are a ~lot~ of idiot lights available.
Ideas would be the "lights on" for fog lights, etc, or the "fasten seat
belts" for a shift indicator, (or nitrous, if you're really creative...) you
get the idea.  
     You'll also need new sending units for the guages.  Don't leave this
step out.  I toasted my 350 that way...  Brings to mind Ford's idea of rally
gauges...  Back in the 70's they had three instrumentation options.  Lights,
budget guages, and real guages.  The budget guages had the idiot light
sender switches, with guage readings of normal, low, and high.  When the
switch was closed, the needle would center in it's sweep, and when the
switch openned, the needle would bottom out one way or the other, (depending
on what it was reading)  So, at 6 psi, the oil would say normal, but at 5
psi, it would show low!  Ford innovates!  Technology at it's finest!
     Good luck on your guages.  If you need further advice, etc. ask away.
I've got pic's of my guages on my page (in the "Rockit" section...) if
you're interested in seeing them actually done...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:20:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Tranny Problems -Reply

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Greg Pruett wrote:

> Check Wal-Mart.  I picked a plastic Mightyvac up there which came with a
> vacuum cannister for bleeding brakes and some assorted fittings.  A very
> handy little tool to have....Should be a vacuum pump in every garage.

     I'll agree to that.   My vacuum pump is actully a Chevy fuel pump 
which I welded a handle to - couldn't think of any other use for a Chevy 
pump in a garage full of Olds parts.  ;^)

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:27:07 -0300
Subject: Rusto Tip

Figured I'd share this on with you since it worked well for me.   

On my '71 CS ragtop, the trunklid has the usual rust-thru (I live in NY) 
on the edges as the bottom corners of lid, and on the underside.  Bondo 
cracks because the surrounding metal is weak, not enough depth to use 
gorilla hair, not enough metal to weld.   Can't find a convertible lid 
since the front edges are different from the 
hard top lid.

Easy fix:

	1.  Clean inside as good as you can, prep the metal with some 
	sort of primer/rust converter.  I used MetalEtch followed by Rustoleum.

	2.  Get a can of expanding foam insulation - commonly sold as 
	Home Depot as "Great Stuff".

	3.  From the inside, spray it into the entire edge of the trunk 
	lid.  

	4.  This stuff will expand to fill any air gaps.   Dries rock 
	solid but doesn't crack under stress.   

Now you have a good enough base to put a thin layer of bondo over the 
rusted out area.   This way also lets you put the chrome trim back on 
since there's no weld bead to deal with.   

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:31:22 -0300
Subject: Re: rallye pack guage swap 

I have the olds shop manual for the 79 model. It is all inclusive. I'm almost
certain that the diesel wiring would correspond to the rallye guage setup
with only a few minor differences. I was gonna do that for my 81, but I gave
some guages to a friend of mine and somebody stole both sets in Norfolk, Va.
I never saw any of it again. I had two complete sets of guages (out of a 79
and a 84) cutlass wagon, I had hoped to get at least one of them back. Guess
not! If you are interested, contact me at Katana72@aol.com.

Katana72       It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!!!!!!             Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:34:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up! 

>At 12:33 AM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>     Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.
>>Ooooh man is it cool! 
>
>Yeah, that came out when I was selling Oldsmobiles, I really liked it to
>(had a demo International Series). I just wished the engineers had figured a
>way to hide the "projector" in the dash instead of on top like an 
afterthought.
>
     It wasn't a Pace car, was it?  We've got the '88 Indy Pace Car at
MSU-Northern here.  Really cool.  Cutlass Int'l, ground effects,
convertible, HUD...  I've wanted that car since I first saw it!  I've got
one or two pics of it on my homepage.  I agree about that "on dash" install.
Mine looks even worse, as far as that goes.  ...So far...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:29:31 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio #

> 
> This isn't going to help much.... I know that in Cutlasses in '68 you
> could only get an am/fm mono radio (no Wonderbar or Stereo near as I can
> tell). I have the mono in mine. My parts catalog doesn't even list it
> though, just am-only, am/fm stereo, and Wonderbar. Hmmm. 
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        

Greg,

Mine (1968 442 convertible) has an AM/FM mono wonderbar in it. It is 
original.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:39:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Rusto Tip

Bob Valentine wrote:
> 
> Figured I'd share this on with you since it worked well for me.
> 
> On my '71 CS ragtop, the trunklid has the usual rust-thru   Can't find a 
convertible lid
> since the front edges are different from the
> hard top lid.
> 
> Easy fix:
> 
>     
> 
> Now you have a good enough base to put a thin layer of bondo over the
> rusted out area.   This way also lets you put the chrome trim back on
> since there's no weld bead to deal with.
> 
>                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--
>             

Bob,

Now that's a neat idea.  I'll try that on a couple of Chevies that some 
ex-friends own down the street.  BTW: doesn't the sedan trunk lid work 
on the convertible for all years?  It is good for 1968.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:34:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Rusto Tip

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> ex-friends own down the street.  BTW: doesn't the sedan trunk lid work 
> on the convertible for all years?  It is good for 1968.

   Don't know.  The 71-72 ragtop lid had rounded front edges, while the 
regular CS lid has square edges.  You can supposedly modify a regular lid 
to fit, but I've never tried.  I didn't know this for several years until 
another Olds guy pointed this out as I was about to by his hardtop lid.

   Sad thing is, when I was in Las Vegas, there were *4* (four) '71 CS 
ragtops with perfect trunk lids - except the locks had been pickaxed 
out to the point of no repair.  According to the yard guy, "Hmmmm?  Those 
lids don't rot...".  

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:36:19 -0300
Subject: RE: Dash lamps

> With these lights, it can be a good idea to bend the contact tabs on the
> plastic holders up just a bit to make sure there's good contact with the
> printed circuit board before inserting them back in. 

One serious note on this. Yes, this makes a better contact with the PC-board
but if you bend those contacts just a little bit too much, you may crack
the lamp holder when it is placed back into it's place. So, bend just a
VERY little bit. I have cracked 2 of those holders.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:03:46 -0300
Subject: RE: Rusto tip

> 3.  From the inside, spray it into the entire edge of the trunk 
> lid.  

******************************
******  C A U T I O N  *******
******************************
This stuff really expands.
If there is no hole for it to escape, then it will force it's way out.
If you use too much of it, it will bend your plates. Practise before
apply.

We use this polyurethane foam to seal the window frames in our houses.
I've seen it to bend a frame made of 2 x 4 inch wood.
The window frame had to be removed because the window didn't fit
into the frame any more.

This foam also has a solvent that is flammable. It can collect into your
trunk. Be careful with this too. Since the fumes are heavier than air,
they collect in bottom of your trunk. 

This foam is cured by the humidity in the air. So it cures from out
towards inside. If you use thick layers of this stuff, the curing process
may take a week or so. Although the outside is cured,
there may be sticky, ugly stuff inside.

The polyurethane foam is very sticky. It can be removed using asethone
(how do you spell this?) before it is cured but once it has cured it can
be removed only by mechanical means.

Protect your eyes before applying this. The bottle will spit now and then
during the spraying process. Protecting your trunk would be a good idea
too.

The best thing to do is to spray some of this stuff and inspect it's
behaviour.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:15:24 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio #

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> > This isn't going to help much.... I know that in Cutlasses in '68 you
> > could only get an am/fm mono radio (no Wonderbar or Stereo near as I can
> 
> Mine (1968 442 convertible) has an AM/FM mono wonderbar in it. It is 
> original.

You mean one with signal-seeking? I'm pretty sure my literature says that
was only available in big cars in '68... though that doesn't mean much
from past experience. Can you confirm? 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:54:38 -0300
Subject: RE: 72 cutlass cruiser

Roger,
If you belong to the Oldsmobile Club of America it is delivered to your house 
each month. Other than that, I don't know how one would get a copy.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:37:26 -0300
Subject: Weekend coming...... (not olds related at all)

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
While you guys have just opened your eyes I have my workday almost
fin(n)ished.

There will be a dog-race at the nearby forest at this week-end. Yes,
this dog-race takes place in a forest, it's a forest-dog-race.
Me and my wife will serve the coffee and the bread for the visitors.

There will be some 70 whippets and a few greyhounds as well as
pharao-hounds racing.

During the race the dogs follow a bet (is this correct word?) which
is drawn by an enduro-motorcycle. The speed rises up to 40 km/h so the
driver must be a skilled one. The track is very curved both in horizontal
and vertical directions.

Another way would be to set up a track with all that bet-wiring and use
a long wire to draw the bet.

After the race we will have a nice sauna.

Have a nice weekend there.

P.S. Didn't Mike swap the dogs into kettle ?

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:20:09 -0300
Subject: FW: Untorqueable brake line (was Re: Removing frozen tranny cooler  
lines (was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace)

.  As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
>line flex, placing a torsional torque on the connection.  I've tried
>applying a counter torque on the line, but I'm leary of crushing or
>destroying it.
>
>After a day or two, the connection loosens and I either have to retighten it
>or live with a fluid leak and brake fade.
>
>What are my solutions, short of replacing the line?  I suck at bending
>tubing, with or without a tubing bender.
>
>
>Spud     "Fart proudly."
>'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
>'73 Delta 88
>'79 LeBaron

Spud:

As I am grasping at straws on this one, I have seen the time when either the
"nut" or the tubing had a burr which would engage the other as they were mated
under force.  Check to see that the line flare on the nut side, and the flare
surface on the tubing side are smooth.  Try rotating the nut against the line
flare with just stiff finger pressure, you might feel it "catch"  My $.02.

Frank Boerger//'68 C/S Convertible//'68 C/S Coupe-de-Parts

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:33:12 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Water/Fuel Pump replace 

Blush.  I think this only happens occasionally!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -----------
<snip>
and David Brown offered a saged thought:
<snip>

Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:14:15 -0300 
Subject: olds.history # or e-mail address?

hey gang,
     Does anyone have the phone number and times listed to call the olds
history center? I saw some posts earlier but no number mentioned...
I saw a e-mail address: oldsheidi@aol.com  --but I don't know who I'd get if I
emailed them.
    Some of the questions for them are of the '73 model year cars, I know that
one of the earlier posts you guys were having trouble with the "older" cars
documentation (i.e. some nit-wit threw it away!) I hope '73 is "late" enough to
have kept some info.
   Anyways, a phone number or e-mail address would be nice... thanks for your
help.

Rob Malland  1973-442
Tacoma, WA












..

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:09:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Weekend coming...... (not olds related at all)

Esko,

> While you guys have just opened your eyes I have my workday almost
> fin(n)ished.

Arf!

> There will be some 70 whippets and a few greyhounds as well as
> pharao-hounds racing.

Interesting.  Need anymore Greyhounds?  We have tons of them here in 
Florida due to our dog racing tracks.  They never can find enough homes 
for them all so many are destroyed.   :(

> During the race the dogs follow a bet (is this correct word?) 

We would call it a "lure".  Training using a live rabbit is called 
"coursing" (and not highly thought of in some circles).

> The speed rises up to 40 km/h so the driver must be a skilled one. 

Good thing it's not Dale Earnhardt or he'd keep bumping into the dogs.

> After the race we will have a nice sauna.

Bet the dogs just love that!

> P.S. Didn't Mike swap the dogs into kettle ?

Eh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #313
********************************
 
