To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	12/04/96 09:09:56 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #392


oldsmobile-digest        Wednesday, 4 December 1996     Volume 01 : Number 392


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:55:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Ways to keep vandals off your car

At 03:10 AM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Maybe if you drove a stake in the ground not far from your car an tied a
>>huge dog chain to it.  Then run the chain under you car and leave a light on
>>so any potential vandals could see it.  A dog dish and well-worn chew toy
>>lying nearby would be a nice touch.  :)
>
>Yeah, like a gnawed-off railroad tie, and a couple bowling balls with ~huge~
>teeth marks in 'em!  That ought to make people a bit more cautious!  A local
>towing company has some kind of big dog (unsure what kind, probably a Rott)
>He uses bowling balls as his chew toys.  Grabs on to one and jumps up in a
>pickup bed and starts gnawing away.  I'd sure hate to be on its bad side!
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)
>
>

One of the good local junk yards has a dog.  Looks like a German Shepard,
but TWICE as big as they usually get.  He uses 10:00 x 20 truck tires as his
chew toy, and can fairly well carry one around.

------------------------------

From: rebelxs <rebelxs@cadvision.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:57:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 71 W30 parts

Melissa Dawn Barberree wrote:
>
> >
> > I need a 71 OW trans as original as I can get it.  I'll rebuild it > so
> condition isn't important as long as it isn't a rust bucket inside. >
> oldsman@innersite.com Russ Jones>
> >
>
>    Just a stupid question. What does OW stand for?
>       Thanks, Luke
>
>       mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu
	

Hey Luke......USE THE FORCE........DUH.........

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:58:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Engine won't quit running

At 03:19 AM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>do not know about MDS ignitions at all.
>>But would like to.  Anyone care to fill this in, I'm an avid reader.
>>The Wiz
>>
>>We have Nathan's e-mail address.  We could all ask him about it.
>>dj :-)
>
>Yeah, he'd tell us to "tern duh got damm kee off, sit fer branes!"
>   :)
>
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)
>
>
vell he vud be rong vudent he.  u kant tern duh got damm kee off, u sit fer
branes, u kant tern it on 2.  u kould tern off da svitch wid it maybey.

anon

i kan spel a gud S u N-E day.

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 06:10:34 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Looks like We're nasty ourselves

The guy that sent the misspelled swearing had just one thing
in his mind: "I want to stop this OLDS-babble filling my
mailbox".

How can he have bad feelings against us ?
I think that the only thing he did wrong was the bad
way to express himself.
You can't please everyone. I'm sure there MUST be people that like
his way.

How did we respond ?
We nailed him against the wall teaching him to swear !
I doubt he never read a single line of our messages, though.

On my opinion this list is relatively free of these
get-off-the-list-disabled people. If doubt, try the Mac games
development list. In fact this message was the first I've seen
in this list. (Been here more than one week).

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:35:25 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Getting Off (Please Read)

LAST POST ON THIS SUBJECT I TRUST!!!!!  <-- Take the hint folks!

READ THIS: Please keep the flames private! DO NOT SEND THEM TO THE LIST!
I keep having to remind everyone of this. Getting tired of it too.

FYI:
The charming fellow from Virginia Tech was removed from the list almost
immediately after his first complaint a couple of days ago. Genius that
he is, he kept replying to old messages even after the fact. Let's hope
that if he graduates from VT, he doesn't get a job with Boeing or
whoever... wouldn't want to place my life in the hands of someone that
brilliant.

As for the other gentleman (rebelxs) he has been here since midsummer so
I guess maybe he's a slow reader if its taken him this long to reach his
conclusion. He isn't here any more either.

KEEP IT OLDS-RELATED!

OK, I'll stop shouting now. Just had to get your attention.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:46:34 -0400
Subject: swap meet (Michigan)

	Attention Olds people -

		 FYI, There is a LARGE 2 day swap meet here at the Michigan
State Fair grounds in Detroit on JAN 4-5th.

	In the past I have seen OCA members from Ohio and Indiana. As of this
writing I am planning on setting up along with a few guys selling parts.

  cooler ta cruise,                                    ___   __
                                       RED    /     /    / /  /
                                             / __  /  --/ /  /
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/

             (MCORNEA@pt8228.pto.ford.com)

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:56:03 -0400
Subject: Isetta

Hey guys,

	I'm running a little behind here.  The story you had about the Isetta 
on Mon.
reminded me of something.  Do you ever watch "Family Matters", with Steve
Urkel.  In one episode he had a car that sounds like this.  He was to race a
late model Z-28 so he stretched the frame, added slicks to the car and a jet
engine (unfortunately he didn't his parachute didn't open soon enough, kinda
sounds like that guy in the desert with the Impala).

Just thought someone might have seen this
Steve

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:34:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine won't quit running

Hi Gang,

At 01:05 AM 12/4/96 -0400, W MACHINES wrote:
>In a message dated 96-12-03 22:37:22 EST, you write:
>
><< Hi gang,
>
> I've gotten the rebuilt 455 into my 1968 442.  The engine runs great, but
> won't shut off when the key is turned off.  The engine continues to run even
> when the battery is disconnected and only quits when the red alternator wire
> is disconnected.  The GEN light glows BRIGHT red when the key is off and the
> engine is running.  I can also get the engine to quit if I disconnect the
> resister wire to the MSD ignition box.
>
> I've replaced the ignition switch and done some cursory checks on the
> wiring, but I don't see anything obviously wrong.  Do any of you have ANY
>ideas?
>
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Bob >>
>
>Yes sir I can help, You get a small diode that is an one way device.  Msd
>will run
>even with the smallest current, it is called back feed.  The diode stops this
>and the
>car will shut off when turn off.  If you need more info   e-mail me
>W MACHINES
>

Thank you W MACHINES.  If I had only RTFM last night before I had posted, I
would have found the answer for myself.  Thanks to all who responded to my
problem.  Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

Bob
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:28:27 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: engine detailing help!

On Tue, 3 Dec 1996 kelleyll@enter.net wrote:
> firewall -- Body color? I know on '68 and up it was semi-black, but I
seem to recall it being body color on the early ones

          My 66 442 has semi black on the firewall (same as inner
          fenders)

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30






------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:35:25 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Engine won't quit running

I can also get the engine to quit if I disconnect the resister wire
to the MSD ignition box.

          While long-distance diagnosis of a problem like this is
          difficult, it would seem to me that the power wire to the
          MSD should be switched through the ignition switch.
          Wouldn't that be the same as disconnecting this wire?

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Isetta

>I'm running a little behind here.  The story you had about the Isetta
>on Mon. reminded me of something.  Do you ever watch "Family Matters",
>with Steve Urkel.  In one episode he had a car that sounds like this.

I saw that episode from a distance; it was on in the local restaurant
one evening. Couldn't get a close up look but I thought it was either
an Isetta or a Messerschmitt. (Yes, there was actually competition for
that market.) Anyone who's been to England may have also seen a Reliant,
another company making plastic 3-wheelers, although they put the single
wheel up front instead of in the back. And then there's the Morgan,
which I think tries to be a little sportier, but enough already; I doubt
Olds would ever build something like these minicars except to replace
the spare tire in the trunk.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:48:22 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Disc brake VC

You will need the ...brake hoses...

          The one thing everyone forgets is the brackets which mount
          the brake hoses to the frame.  This is a stamped steel unit
          which has a hex-shaped cutout into which the frame end of
          the hose fits.  A spring clip retains the hose end in the
          bracket.  The disc brake hoses have a different shape hex
          and will not fit into the drum brake brackets.  The brackets
          are simply bolted to the frame.

...I don't believe that F body parts interchange...

          Not directly, however several vendors sell kits which allow
          the use of second generation F-car spindles and brakes on
          64-72 A-body cars.  This has two advantages:  1. the brakes
          are bigger than the A-body units.  2.  The front suspension
          geometry is changed for improved handling.  H.O. Racing and
          Global West Alignment both sell these kits.

15" wheels won't be any problem to exchange.  Almost anything w/the
proper bolt pattern will work unless you are using the early ('68-68)
brakes...

          Just make sure the wheels are designed for disc brakes.  The
          older drum-only wheels will not clear the calipers (applies to
          14" wheels also).

...You will need wheels w/plenty of clearance to put these on yor
car....

          Not necessarily.  The 69 H/O came with 15" wheels and I run
          BFG 255/60-15s without a problem.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:50:57 -0400
Subject: option codes

I just purchased the chasis service manual for my 85 Cutlass Supreme and
found the explanation of the option codes from the sticker in the trunk.
So I decided to figure out what they all mean but several of the codes
are not listed in the manual.  I was hoping some of you might be able to
shed some light on some of these for me.
Thanks in advance for any help you offer.

Codes
	B01
	FFC
	FFP
	PON
	YT9
These are not listed and I have no clue as to what they might be.

6NN	6 means left front spring
7NN	7 means right front spring
8ST	8 means left rear spring
9ST	9 means right rear

what does the NN and ST stand for?


I've figured out some of the paint codes but I'm not sure on a couple of
them.

79B
79I	Interior, what part?
79Q
799	Interior, what part?

I know that 79 is my paint color, burgundy mettalic.

Also WL2, manifold exhaust, C. I.

	What does the C. I. stand for?

I also figured out how pathetic my drive train is, 200c tranny with 2.14
diff.  At least I have the 307.

Again thanks for any information you come up with.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:36:31 -0400
Subject: Re: harmonic balancer

>The seal bearing surfact is a push on thing ring.

I couldn't have said it better myself. (I dare you to say it three
times fast.  :-)

Question: If the balancer doesn't have a rubber ring (I didn't see one
on the Pontiac 350 I was working on some time ago), would you have any
need to replace it following the rebuild described by the original poster?
I mean, the wear and tear occurred in the engine, not the balancer...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:26:15 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Getting Off (Please Read)

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> LAST POST ON THIS SUBJECT I TRUST!!!!!  <-- Take the hint folks!
>
>
>
>
> FYI:
> The charming fellow from Virginia Tech was removed from the list almost
> immediately after his first complaint a couple of days ago.
>
> As for the other gentleman (rebelxs) he has been here since midsummer so
>  He isn't here any more either.
>
> KEEP IT OLDS-RELATED!
>
>
> Greg Beaulieu


Thank you.  I've had a time translating VA Tech, Norwegian, & Olds
speak.  I'll now be down to OW & H/O.

Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
too long?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:36:17 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Looks Like We're Alive Again

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> All in favor of disallowing any vt.edu accounts (except for Greg
> Pruett) signing onto the Olds list, say "Aye!"

Aye!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:49 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality (in paint)

> > It is coming off in chunks, not adhering to the primer.
>
> I think we may be talking about a different problem here; I have
> seen bad-primer problems and those do let go in chunks. There are a
> couple of Corsicas running around my home town where I swear they
> must have peeled off the loose pieces in sheets.

I see lots of Chevy/GMC pickups (and suburbans) around here
(in Texas, fancy that) that look like the paint came off in
big flakey sheets as you describe.  However in the ones that
I've seen this leaves the primer exposed (not the metal) which
makes me think that it's a problem in the paint <-> primer bond
rather than the primer <-> metal bond.  I remember something
about GM issuing a recall for these cars.  I think it was mostly
the 83 or 84 models that were affected (which doesn't line up
with the Corsica's you mentioned -- hmm).


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:56:19 -0400
Subject: Greg B. read this & Re: ADMIN: Looks Like We're Alive Again

Here is what might be a better idea!

Although I don't believe in punishing a larger group of people for the
actions of one, it would appear that these "jokes" at vt.edu are getting
a little out of hand.  Perhaps a better idea though, would be to
incorporate an idea that is use on a couple of other lists I'm on.  When
you subscribe to the list (or someone else subscribes you) you are sent a
message that you must reply to with a certain bit of text or whatever.
You are not put on the list until you reply to the message.  This is, of
course, all automated.  Thus, if you don't want to be on the list, you
won't reply to the message.  The only problem with this system, is that
if the person is *truly* an idiot, they might reply to the message while
trying to figure out why they recieved it!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:

> Robert J. Barry wrote:
> >
> > All in favor of disallowing any vt.edu accounts (except for Greg
> > Pruett) signing onto the Olds list, say "Aye!"
>
> Aye!
>
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>      (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: jbosh@cais.cais.com (Jeff Bosh)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:05:10 -0400
Subject: Blower

I've got a '71 Cutlass Supreme with a blower that grinds and rattles when I
turn it on.  It seems to blow heat and change speeds, but i'm thinking its
fan is loose.  Any ideas?

jbosh@cais.com

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:08:19 -0400
Subject: Strange cars (was: Isetta)

...And then there's the Morgan, which I think tries to be a little
sportier, but enough already; I doubt Olds would ever build something
like these minicars except to replace the spare tire in the trunk...

          At the risk of propagating this thread, the Morgan Plus-8
          uses the B-O-P (now Rover) aluminum 215 (presumably
          right-side up).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:11:58 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: ADMIN: Getting Off (Please Read)

Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
too long?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

          Actually, Bill, I meant to ask I you just got your Hollander
          Manual ;-)

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:19:20 -0400
Subject: Painting question (was: GM Quality (in paint))

...However in the ones that I've seen this leaves the primer exposed
(not the metal) which makes me think that it's a problem in the paint
<-> primer bond rather than the primer <-> metal bond...

          Actually, this brings to mind a question I've had for some
          time.  I've painted about a dozen cars so far, usually with
          acrylic lacquer.  I usually use R-M brand paints and primer,
          but have also used DuPont.  I always make sure that all
          products I use (paint, primer, thinner, hardener, etc) are
          from the same manufacturer to insure compatibility.

          The problem is that it seams that the slightest little nick
          causes the color coat to come loose from the primer.  This
          is the case whether I use lacquer or catalyzed enamel,
          however the enamel seems to be worse.  Does anybody have the
          secret to good color coat-to-primer adhesion?  I usually wet
          sand the primer with 400 grit or finer prior to shooting the
          color, and naturally take great care with cleaning and
          wipe-down prior to painting.  I use a pre-cleaner and tack
          rag just prior to final paint.

          Any suggestions would be appreciated.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:21:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Blower

I've got a '71 Cutlass Supreme with a blower that grinds and rattles when I
turn it on.  It seems to blow heat and change speeds, but i'm thinking its
fan is loose.  Any ideas?

jbosh@cais.com

          I have to concur with your diagnosis.  I've had this happen
          to several of my A-body cars and it's always been the fan
          coming loose from the blower shaft.  Have fun taking the
          fender off.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:18:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Blower

At 11:05 AM 12/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I've got a '71 Cutlass Supreme with a blower that grinds and rattles when I
>turn it on.  It seems to blow heat and change speeds, but i'm thinking its
>fan is loose.  Any ideas?

Well, either the bearing is bad, or the fan is loose. Either way, by the
time you go through all the trouble of removing the old one (i.e. remove
entire right-front of the car), you're better off replacing the entire
blower motor (~$20 from most chain places) at that time, even if it is only
a loose fan. You don't want to tighten up the fan, and then have to go
through the procedure again in three weeks when the bearing *does* go bad!
(and that is likely how soon it will happen, given Murphy's insights in to
the future...)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:46:55 -0400
Subject: One Convertible Owner's Philosophy (WAS Re: Ways to keep vandals off
your car)

Hi all, I'm back from the U.S. Thanksgiving 'oliday, and a (luckily only)
4-day bout of the flu :p

Anyways, I've been following this thread on vandal protection since last
week; and what with all this talk of alarms, shock delivery systems, razor
blades surrounding radios/foglights/what-have-you, I thought I'd just give
my two Federation Credits -- Saw First Contact last night, sorry :) -- on
the subject:

I've owned at least one convertible at any given time since I was 19 (Yow,
18 years ago!! :O ); and during my college years, whatever convertible I owned
at the time was usually my primary, if not sole, means of transportation.
My alma mater, Northeastern University, is smack dab in the middla downtown
Boston, and is bordering a rather tough neighborhood.  Plus, the Boston
area has always been in the Top 5 or 10 as far as auto thefts & such
are concerned... at least that's what the insurance companies claim when they
charge their ridiculous rates! :)

So what did I do when I parked the car at school?  I left it unlocked.

My attitude was (and is) that if they want whatever I have in the car --
and even my first ragtop had a decent stereo system in it, I saw to that :) --
I'd rather they go in there & get it, rather than having them ripping up the
nice top, and *then* going in to get it :)

Sure, I'd figure out a place to hide a kill switch (or later on, alarms),
but I kept it minimal.  If they really wanted it, they were gonna get it;
my only hope was to get the car back with minimal damage.  So I tried not
to take "heroic" efforts to protect the stereo, etc.

Five years at N.U., and all that got stolen was a pair o' cheap sunglasses
that were on my dashboard.  And nuthin' since then.

Big Red has an alarm, and an ignition kill set up, and that's about it.
And I don't consider the alarm to be a deterrent at all, so I might be tempted
 to put in a LoJack at some point (which I'm also considering for the
Fleetwood).

Anyway, these are just some ramblimgs from a fever-affected brain :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Oly13@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:05:29 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Looks Like We're Alive Again

aye

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:06:40 -0400
Subject: Re: GM quality and rust

My wife's cousin was selling those electric rust preventers a few years
ago. He is no longer selling them, nor is he a millionare. I guess that
answers the question of wheather they work or not!

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

P.S.
I did not buy one from him.

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:56:40 -0400
Subject: A New Arrival

Howdy Folks!

I wanted to announce the arrival of my new addition to the family, a
'93 SCX.  I saw Doug's note as I was eating my lunch and almost
choked that his SCX items were suddenly available....

About the new arrival:

The essentials, its a DOHC, limited edition car  (1 of 500) with a .81 5th
gear, has a adjustable suspension, 2 rear stabilizer bars, v-rated tires, 135
mph top end, black exterior/graphite interior, 20,000 miles,  has W-41 on the
front fenders and the engine, the words "Made exclusively for Oldsmobile"
cast into the engine cover....

Got a SWEET deal on the car, from a gentleman who has left it parked
in a garage for the last year and a half.  It needed a new battery
and fresh gas to be recesitated, but it is alive and well.  I was
going to hold the announcement until I picked it up, but as the
excited new owner, I couldn't wait!

It will join its sibling, my '91 W-40 Quad442 and the wife's Nissan
Altima shortly.

Now wondering about Doug's part prices....

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:48:47 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality (in paint)

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> > > It is coming off in chunks, not adhering to the primer.
> >
> > I think we may be talking about a different problem here; I have
> > seen bad-primer problems and those do let go in chunks. There are a
> > couple of Corsicas running around my home town where I swear they
> > must have peeled off the loose pieces in sheets.
>
> I see lots of Chevy/GMC pickups (and suburbans) around here
> (in Texas, fancy that) that look like the paint came off in
> big flakey sheets as you describe.  However in the ones that
> I've seen this leaves the primer exposed (not the metal) which
> makes me think that it's a problem in the paint <-> primer bond
> rather than the primer <-> metal bond.  I remember something
> about GM issuing a recall for these cars.  I think it was mostly
> the 83 or 84 models that were affected (which doesn't line up
> with the Corsica's you mentioned -- hmm).
>
>
> - Travis

Travis,

My '89 Lebaron didn't come off, but was "burned" (black cherry) on hood
& deck.  Convertible top "prevented" damage there.  Chrysler fixed it
for me under warranty 3 yrs ago.

I have seen these actually go to the primer, come of in sheets, &
generally do everything that GM & Ford do.  Chrysler said that the UV
protection in the clear coat was not up to snuff.

My paint job (clear coat/base coat) on the '70 GS is guaranteed for 5
years not to be affected by the sun or fading.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:23:03 -0400
Subject: And I Thought Mass Drivers Were Bad!  Non-Olds Humor

Like what Charley B. sez... most of y'all will appreciate it;
and those that don't, is it because you were one of these folks? :)

Besides, odds are that at least one of the cars involved was an Olds,
so I guess that gives some credence to bein' on-topic! :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

==============================================================================
==

                  STREET SMART

           Source: LOS ANGELES TIMES

 LOS ANGELES TIMES from Dialog via Individual Inc. :
 The first things he saw were the legs. Protruding
 from under the partially opened hood of a car going
 45 mph, the dangling pair of limbs alerted Officer
 Don Dugan to the fact that something was terribly
 wrong on the Santa Ana Freeway.

 "My eyes just got buggy," Dugan recalled.

 But the driver had an explanation. Not to worry, he
 explained: His accelerator cable had snapped and,
 being a resourceful man, he had persuaded his wife to
 ride up front under the hood and operate it manually
 for the rest of the trip.

 "I cited them for stupidity," Dugan said.

 California Highway Patrol officers say they witness
 innumerable acts of stupidity and carelessness on the
 freeways of Orange County by drivers intent on almost
 everything but their driving. Officers have, for
 instance, seen people barreling down the freeway
 while changing baby diapers, changing their clothes
 or reading newspapers spread across their steering
 wheels.

 "It's just crazy the things that people do," CHP
 Officer Joe Escobar said. "People do some weird,
 weird things."

 Three years ago, as part of a traffic safety
 campaign, the California Office of Traffic Safety
 compiled a list of dangerous driving behaviors
 observed on California highways. Among them: eating a
 baked potato while driving 55 mph, cutting children's
 hair, eating a can of chili with both hands, brushing
 teeth while rinsing with a cup of water, grooming a
 pet, putting on mascara, typing on a laptop computer,
 nursing a baby, using a curling iron, reading a book
 and removing pantyhose.

 CHP officers assigned to Orange County say that they
 can add to the list.

 Once, for instance, Officer Sandra Hartman stopped a
 car for weaving all over the road. Thinking that she
 had a possible drunk driver on her hands, she
 approached the car cautiously, only to find something
 else entirely: the driver and a passenger, both deaf,
 engaged in an animated conversation using sign
 language.

 Another time, the driver of a Volkswagen bug was
 found to have packed his car with more than 900 phone
 books. The man, a phone book deliverer who was paid
 according to the number of copies delivered, had even
 removed the seats from his car and was literally
 sitting on phone books.

 "All I could see was phone books," Officer Gary
 Alfonzo recalls. "My question was, how did he intend
 to drive the vehicle going the other direction once
 he had delivered the phone books and had no seats?

 "He said he hadn't thought of that."

 Another man explained to Officer Kevin Scord that his
 seat belt was unfastened because he had wanted to
 smell his foot.

 "He said he was hot and smelly," Scord said.

 Then there are the romantics.

 Officer Carol Kelly recalls stopping two cars after
 watching a young man swerve dangerously as he tried
 to pass a note through his passenger window to the
 young woman driving in the next lane. Apparently the
 two had begun flirting on the freeway, Kelly said,
 and had decided to exchange phone numbers.

 "He tried to yell it to her, but she couldn't hear
 it," Kelly said. "I cited them both for traveling at
 an unsafe speed."

 Another young driver actually tried a similar stunt
 with Officer Hartman.

 "He started smiling and waving at me like he was
 flirting," she remembers. "Then he slammed into a
 car."

 "I didn't cite him," she said. "I figured he'd been
 humiliated enough."

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:32:41 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile Indy car engine specs

If you would like to see a neat chart showing the difference between
a stock Aurora V-8 and the Indy car version go to:
WWW.Starnews.com/speednet/indycar/96/nov/1125SN_Acompar.html

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:40:27 -0400
Subject: RE: Re[2]: GM Quality

And Wizkid spaketh:

> How about way back when?
>
> One of the people I did computer work for, bought a new Cadillac.  It was
> about a 1975, and was silver.  Within  a year it the paint had gaping holes
> in it.  It was repainted and then disposed of.  His next car was a Lincoln,
> also silver, and almost an exact repeat.  Some moron at the Lincoln dealer
> blamed it on 'acid rain.'
>
> So really the question, how does Mercedes-Benz keep their silver on?
>

It's those 24-hour road service elves they have.... every night, they go
to the homes of owners of silver M-Bs, and wash all dirt, salt and any other
contaminants off the cars, touching up any areas where the delicate silver
paint is fading....

How else can you justify spending six figures on a car that most of our
Olds V8s can eat fer breakfast? :)



Tim (Lighten Yer Car!  Let it Rust Away!!) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality and Rust

The Wiz observes:
>
> P.S. I read that Houston is sinking because of all the water that is pumped
> out of the ground!  Any truth to that?

Water?!?  They pump *water* outta the ground in Houston?

So I guess that team that plays in the dome there, the Oilers, is mis-named,
huh?

:):):):):):)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:54:20 -0400
Subject: Ball joint failure (was: RE: PST suspension bushings

	   -Reply)



>>> Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> 12/02/96 02:44pm >>>
>Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. I bought the PST front end kit about 5 =
years ago and about 1.5 years later ( at different times) both lower = ball
joints broke. This was an unusual thing to have happen so I made = sure
<snip>

Anyone else had similar problems with thier PST kit?  I hope not.  Mine
came yesterday, and I haven't installed it yet...

Chris, did you order the PolyGraphite kit or the rubber kit?  Oh wait, you
said 5 years ago.  PolyGr. kits prolly didn't exist back then ;)

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:00:31 -0400
Subject: Olds I saw (Was Re: One Convertible Owner's Philosophy)

I made the following attempt at a wisecrack:

> I thought I'd just give
> my two Federation Credits -- Saw First Contact last night, sorry :) -- on
> the subject:

Jeez, I *am* gettin' old and forgetful!

When we came out of the theater, what do I see parked at the beginning of
my row but a nice old Olds... an 88, a Dynamic I think, early 60s vintage.
Four door hardtop, original looking cream color.   Very little rust;
most of it was the surface stuff on the front bumper.   I waited a few
minutes, in case the owner was also in seeing First Contact, but no luck.
It is, after all, a 14-mer movieplex!

Anyways, it was nice to see a class sled out'n about... braving the salty
elements here in wintry New England.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:11:24 -0400
Subject: oxygenated fuels and your car

I found this on the Slant 6 web site:
http://www.bev.net/people/dreistadt/sl6/oxy.html.  Though there would be some
interest.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -------------
Many areas of the country are now requiring seasonal or year-round use of
"oxygenated" gasoline.

This is gasoline that has been adulterated with Ethanol, Methyl Tertiary Butyl
 Ether (MTBE), Ethyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (ETBE) or Tertiary Amyl Methyl
Ether (TAME).

The stated purpose is to reduce air pollution, but whether or not in fact
these fuels do reduce net pollution is under debate. The crucial thing is
that these fuels can have adverse effects on the fuel systems of older cars.
Here is the information you need to proof your older-model car against the
new fuel formulations:

Some elastomers (types of rubberlike material) are fine with oxygenated fuel,
some are not. Nitrile does actually have some problems with some kinds of oxy
fuels. Silicone is OK with it. Viton is usually OK in it, but some kinds
(usually ethanol as opposed to one of the ethers, MTBE, TAME, or ETBE) will
soften viton, which causes wonky starting and running because the tip of
carburetor inlet needles is. . .viton.

The crucial thing in terms of fire danger is, of course, degradation of
flexible fuel lines.

My experience (as someone who's in the state that originated oxy fuels 10
years ago =( ) is that the old type flex line, carb-rated, and stamped SAE
30R7, gets soft and gummy and/or hard and brittle in oxy fuels, and that the
nylon fuel filters sold by various companies can craze and get sticky/soft in
it.

There are solutions to these problems.

1) Replace the flex line in your fuel system--ALL of it--with EFI (Fuel
Injection) hose, stamped SAE 30R9. This stuff is good to 900 psi and resists
EVERYTHING. Although EFI line should, by now, be available in most
reasonably-well-stocked auto parts stores, there are still some clueless
counter staffers who will try to pawn-off regular fuel line (SAE 30R7) as EFI
hose.

They'll say "It's all the same," etc. Just say NO, you won't accept anything
that is NOT stamped SAE 30R9. Throw away the dumb spring clamps. The EFI
(solid-band) clamps are best, but the worm-drive clamps will work. DON'T
forget the little piece of hose that connects the fuel tank sender to the
steel body line!

2) Use a METAL fuel filter(s). Chrysler's MoPar filter, available at all
Chrysler Corporation dealerships, is once again made out of metal in response
to the new fuels. NAPA, WIX and Purolator, I believe, sell metal ones whilst
Fram still sells plastic.

3) Keep an extra carb needle/seat on hand, ready for a five-minute change if
you should need it.  NAPA sells these individually under the Echlin label, but
their needle/seats for the Holley 1920, 1945, and 6145 carburetors is not of
the correct design and if you have such a carburetor, you should look instead
at getting a complete Standard-Hygrade carburetor kit, which does include the
 correct needle and seat.

4) If your carb hasn't been rebuilt within the last ~5 years, expect to have
to rebuild it before, during, or after oxy fuel season. Newer
Standard-Hygrade kits have upgraded soft parts, and are of much higher quality
than any other kits on the market.

5) Worry about the fuel pump if it's more than ~9 years old. Newer fuel pumps
have upgraded  materials. New fuel pump rebuild kits for '63 and earlier
bolt-together pumps, available from Antique Auto Parts Cellar in
Massachussets, have good, resistant soft parts.

Information on remedying the driveability and starting problems that can be
caused by oxygenated fuels can be found in the Slant-6 Driveability TechPage.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:27:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Cone vs. Clutch type posi.

Also interested in the cone vs. clutch debate.  Don't we all!?

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
     Tom, who wishes he could time-warp back to 1984 and hand my car's
     original buyer $300 and tell him to get the posi, Lentz.
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:29:56 -0400
Subject: RE: option codes

Bill,

The NN and ST are different spring ratios.  I got a map for the ones
on the N-Body from a Ch*vy dealer that listed them according to their
strength.  I'm sure the parts dept. at your local dealer could
provide the info to you....

Interestingly, the front springs on my Quad442 have different rates!

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

Bill Reilly wrote:

>These are not listed and I have no clue as to what they might be.
>6NN	6 means left front spring
>7NN	7 means right front spring
>8ST	8 means left rear spring
>9ST	9 means right rear
>what does the NN and ST stand for?

------------------------------

From: "Robert F. Feitt" <RFF@orca.physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:30:27 -0400
Subject: Re: oxygenated fuels and your car

Here in Santa Barbara, CA.  we're sold oxygenated fuels beginning Feb. 96. Six
weeks ago my eleven year old Nissan Maxima caught fire while I was driving.
Fuel was obviously involved. My son and I just managed to escape. The fire
totally consumed the car in minutes. Even the door handles melted. When I
found a place to get off the road and attempted to stop I discovered that we
had no brakes. The plastic brake fluid reservior had probably melted away by
then. I suspect the flexible fuels lines gave up.

Morale to the story: Do replace those lines as appropriate.

Bob




Date:          Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:11:24 -0400
From:          "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
To:            oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:       oxygenated fuels and your car
Reply-to:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

I found this on the Slant 6 web site:
http://www.bev.net/people/dreistadt/sl6/oxy.html.  Though there would be some
interest.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -------------
Many areas of the country are now requiring seasonal or year-round use of
"oxygenated" gasoline.

This is gasoline that has been adulterated with Ethanol, Methyl Tertiary Butyl
 Ether (MTBE), Ethyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (ETBE) or Tertiary Amyl Methyl
Ether (TAME).

The stated purpose is to reduce air pollution, but whether or not in fact
these fuels do reduce net pollution is under debate. The crucial thing is
that these fuels can have adverse effects on the fuel systems of older cars.
Here is the information you need to proof your older-model car against the
new fuel formulations:

Some elastomers (types of rubberlike material) are fine with oxygenated fuel,
some are not. Nitrile does actually have some problems with some kinds of oxy
fuels. Silicone is OK with it. Viton is usually OK in it, but some kinds
(usually ethanol as opposed to one of the ethers, MTBE, TAME, or ETBE) will
soften viton, which causes wonky starting and running because the tip of
carburetor inlet needles is. . .viton.

The crucial thing in terms of fire danger is, of course, degradation of
flexible fuel lines.

My experience (as someone who's in the state that originated oxy fuels 10
years ago =( ) is that the old type flex line, carb-rated, and stamped SAE
30R7, gets soft and gummy and/or hard and brittle in oxy fuels, and that the
nylon fuel filters sold by various companies can craze and get sticky/soft in
it.

There are solutions to these problems.

1) Replace the flex line in your fuel system--ALL of it--with EFI (Fuel
Injection) hose, stamped SAE 30R9. This stuff is good to 900 psi and resists
EVERYTHING. Although EFI line should, by now, be available in most
reasonably-well-stocked auto parts stores, there are still some clueless
counter staffers who will try to pawn-off regular fuel line (SAE 30R7) as EFI
hose.

They'll say "It's all the same," etc. Just say NO, you won't accept anything
that is NOT stamped SAE 30R9. Throw away the dumb spring clamps. The EFI
(solid-band) clamps are best, but the worm-drive clamps will work. DON'T
forget the little piece of hose that connects the fuel tank sender to the
steel body line!

2) Use a METAL fuel filter(s). Chrysler's MoPar filter, available at all
Chrysler Corporation dealerships, is once again made out of metal in response
to the new fuels. NAPA, WIX and Purolator, I believe, sell metal ones whilst
Fram still sells plastic.

3) Keep an extra carb needle/seat on hand, ready for a five-minute change if
you should need it.  NAPA sells these individually under the Echlin label, but
their needle/seats for the Holley 1920, 1945, and 6145 carburetors is not of
the correct design and if you have such a carburetor, you should look instead
at getting a complete Standard-Hygrade carburetor kit, which does include the
 correct needle and seat.

4) If your carb hasn't been rebuilt within the last ~5 years, expect to have
to rebuild it before, during, or after oxy fuel season. Newer
Standard-Hygrade kits have upgraded soft parts, and are of much higher quality
than any other kits on the market.

5) Worry about the fuel pump if it's more than ~9 years old. Newer fuel pumps
have upgraded  materials. New fuel pump rebuild kits for '63 and earlier
bolt-together pumps, available from Antique Auto Parts Cellar in
Massachussets, have good, resistant soft parts.

Information on remedying the driveability and starting problems that can be
caused by oxygenated fuels can be found in the Slant-6 Driveability TechPage.



Robert F. Feitt
Department of Physics
University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106
(805)893-2740 voice
(805)893-3307 fax
rff@orca.physics.ucsb.edu

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:46:41 -0400
Subject: RCPT: Re: oxygenated fuels and your car

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:     4 Dec 96  7:30
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: Re: oxygenated fuels and your car

Was read at 14:46, 4 Dec 96.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:10:48 -0400
Subject: That 403 with solid main webs (fwd)

Received this from Chris Witt re. Mike Wolski's 403.... high praise
indeed!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:08:07 -0400
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
To: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: That 403 with solid main webs

> On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Mike Wolski wrote:
> > FYI,
> > Leftovers from my "Never Quite Made it Back into Drag
> > Racing Sale" can be found at:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/tx/mjwparts
>
> I took a look at this site. There's mention of a built-up 403 for sale
> with "thick webs". Is this the elusive solid-web 403 that no one has
> seen? Is Chris Witt still offering a reward for evidence of one of these
> varmints? :)

Went, saw, emailed him. He says is indeed SMW motor. Working on a deal for
photo proof of the solid main webs. Great motor specs, he seems to know what
he's doing. Gets the RS nod of approval.

- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:14:13 -0400
Subject: Outside Door Handles for '72 and Earlier

Heard something last night that I cannot confirm, but a guy who is
in our car club abd drives big rigs and heavy equipment for a
living *swears* that outside door handles for '72 and earlier
Cutlasses, etc. are still being produced by GM. He says that you
just need to go to a dealer that carries heavy trucks and ask for
outside door handles for a Chevy (or is it GMC?) "Bruin" model. He
claims they are identical.

For what it's worth...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:28:55 -0400
Subject: RE: Ball joint failure (was: RE: PST suspension bushings

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE1F8.15B8EB40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh it was definitely the poly kit, but it was very new at the time so =
maybe the first ones off the press were faulty because I have bought =
some since and they work fine. Others that I have spoken with also =
seemed to like them.=20

- ----------
From: 	Blaine Sanders 5483[SMTP:BLAINES@strata3d.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, December 04, 1996 2:54 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Ball joint failure (was: RE: PST suspension bushings=20

	   -Reply)



>>> Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> 12/02/96 02:44pm >>>
>Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. I bought the PST front end kit about 5 =
=3D
years ago and about 1.5 years later ( at different times) both lower =3D =
ball
joints broke. This was an unusual thing to have happen so I made =3D =
sure
<snip>

Anyone else had similar problems with thier PST kit?  I hope not.  Mine
came yesterday, and I haven't installed it yet... =20

Chris, did you order the PolyGraphite kit or the rubber kit?  Oh wait, =
you
said 5 years ago.  PolyGr. kits prolly didn't exist back then ;)

- -Blaine





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U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABEAAAB1cmJhbmNoQG1hZ2kuY29tAAAA
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RUZBVUxUWUJFQ0FVU0VJAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAMAQAACwEAADMBgAATFpGdXkd9qb/AAoBDwIVAqQD
5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg7ozEw19CoAIzwnZOxX/eDI1NQKACoEN
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BBF3BJBhH8FhdWx0HBAfcGPjIdAR8CBJIBHAHcAdAHkIYGdoBUAfEB7iC4BjWxxQAHBkHCIcEHcF
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0mthSLVzC3AkYFfm/1bhZcFsRCVgHMEEICyRRRDnHBBrIWhCZXgEAAVATlCuYyUAHDEDoDtLzS0x
1H9MT3W/CuwaNSyWdtUVIQABebADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMOAU5nIh4rsBQAAIMOAU5nIh
4rsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAFCx

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE1F8.15B8EB40--

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@flash.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:33:18 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality and Rust

> The Wiz observes:
> >
> > P.S. I read that Houston is sinking because of all the water that is
pumped
> > out of the ground!  Any truth to that?
>
> Water?!?  They pump *water* outta the ground in Houston?
>
> So I guess that team that plays in the dome there, the Oilers, is
mis-named,
> huh?
> Tim Churchill
> -------------
> '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
> '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
> '91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

The Oilers won't be here much longer anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Jason Hairston
77 442

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:39:43 -0400
Subject: RCPT: Re: oxygenated fuels and your car

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:     4 Dec 96  7:30
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: Re: oxygenated fuels and your car

Was read at 15:39, 4 Dec 96.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:32:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Disc brake VC

>'68-72 Cutlass, Skylark, Lemans, or Chevelle disc brakes can be changed
>to your car.  I would recommend the '70 & up single piston caliper type
>as parts are so easy to get for them.

>I don't believe that F body parts interchange nor the Caprice - at least
>not enough of them to make it worth while to get only the few that may.

It is my understanding that parts from 67-72 A bodies, 67-69 F bodies, and
68-74 X bodies will interchange.

A bodies are:

Buick - Regal, Skylark
Chevy - Chevelle, Malibu
Oldsmobile - Cutlass
Pontiac - Lemans, Tempest

F bodies are:

Chevy - Camaro
Pontiac - Firebird

X bodies are:

Buick - Apollo
Chevy - Nova
Oldsmobile - Omega
Pontiac - Ventura, Phoenix

This came from someone's web page (Charley Buehner's?), from car mag
articles that were up on the page (before they made him take 'em down).
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:40:18 -0400
Subject: Carb Interchange

>Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
>too long?
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama

Yes, yes.  If it's too long for the list, send it to me privately!  Thanks
for all the great info, and taking the time to send it!  It is appreciated.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Getting Off (Please Read)

At 05:26 AM 12/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> LAST POST ON THIS SUBJECT I TRUST!!!!!  <-- Take the hint folks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI:
>> The charming fellow from Virginia Tech was removed from the list almost
>> immediately after his first complaint a couple of days ago.
>>
>> As for the other gentleman (rebelxs) he has been here since midsummer so
>>  He isn't here any more either.
>>
>> KEEP IT OLDS-RELATED!
>>
>>
>> Greg Beaulieu
>
>
>Thank you.  I've had a time translating VA Tech, Norwegian, & Olds
>speak.  I'll now be down to OW & H/O.
>
>Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
>too long?
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>
Please do.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:00:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Blower

At 12:05 PM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I've got a '71 Cutlass Supreme with a blower that grinds and rattles when I
>turn it on.  It seems to blow heat and change speeds, but i'm thinking its
>fan is loose.  Any ideas?
>
>jbosh@cais.com
>
>
Where were you last week?

Yes the squrrel cage can be loose.  The bearings can be bad.  The entire fan
assy can be loose.

I think it is possible to look up the messages for the last week or two.
This was covered in never-ending detail, which is good by the way, and would
probably be easier that repeating them this week.

If you have problems finding them, put a note back, and I'm sure one of the
Xperts on this list server will tell you how.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:50:37 -0400
Subject: Heads-Up Display: Which recent models have it?

Mom's in the market for a recent-vintage used car, Cutlass-sized.
I think the heads-up display in my SSEi is the greatest thing since
sliced bread and I know certain Olds models in recent years have had
it. (There's a 4-door Supreme International Series I see around town
which has it -- appears to be approximately a 1992 model.) Can anyone
give more details on which cars and years carried this option? She'd
find it very helpful to not have to keep refocusing between the dash
and the road all the time, especially at night.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:06:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Strange cars (was: Isetta)

At 12:08 PM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>...And then there's the Morgan, which I think tries to be a little
>sportier, but enough already; I doubt Olds would ever build something
>like these minicars except to replace the spare tire in the trunk...
>
>          At the risk of propagating this thread, the Morgan Plus-8
>          uses the B-O-P (now Rover) aluminum 215 (presumably
>          right-side up).
>
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>
>
>
Are you saying that they still make Morgans?

I had a roomie in college that had one, a grand bright orange.  He had a
fender bender and decided to to the bodywork himself.  He was quite handy.
He found a Morgan dealer somewhere and ordered a fender.  A flat piece of
tin arrived, along with instructions on how to beat out a new fender.

Lucily a nearby used foreign car dealer had an entire car and he bought the
fender, did the work himself, and drive a orange car with a b.r.g. lf fender
for years.

Actually, I think the Morgan being considered in concert with Isettas and
Messerschmidts is the early '30s model with three wheels, as Great Britain
had a wheel tax, and the license fees for a three wheeler was 3/4 of that of
a four wheeler.

The Olds thread.  The Morgan in the junk yard was residing between 2 1957 J2s.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:10:35 -0400
Subject: Re: GM quality and rust

At 10:06 AM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>My wife's cousin was selling those electric rust preventers a few years
>ago. He is no longer selling them, nor is he a millionare. I guess that
>answers the question of wheather they work or not!
>
>Dave Wyatt
>70  4-4-2
>
>P.S.
>I did not buy one from him.
>
>
Are you sure it's not a question of w(h)eather he worked or not?

Anon.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:20:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Cone vs. Clutch type posi.

At 03:27 PM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Also interested in the cone vs. clutch debate.  Don't we all!?
>
>David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
>Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
>                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
>
>------------
>     Tom, who wishes he could time-warp back to 1984 and hand my car's
>     original buyer $300 and tell him to get the posi, Lentz.
>     tlentz@teknon.com
>
>
I have a Ch*vy with a cone clutch.  Kinda solves both ends of that problem.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:54:11 -0400
Subject: FW: Ball joint failure (was: RE: PST suspension bushings

>Oh it was definitely the poly kit, but it was very new at the time so =
>maybe the first ones off the press were faulty because I have bought =
>some since and they work fine. Others that I have spoken with also =
>seemed to like them.

There isn't any rubber/poly material in the ball joint, is there ?

I thought in the joint it just a pressed steel ball/shaft in a steel "socket".

If so, poly or rubber origin would make no difference in the failure.

Help, anyone ??

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:32:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads-Up Display: Which recent models have it?

>Mom's in the market for a recent-vintage used car, Cutlass-sized.
>I think the heads-up display in my SSEi is the greatest thing since
>sliced bread and I know certain Olds models in recent years have had
>it.

I seem to recall that none of the '96 Olds's had that as an option :( *(come
on, Olds-R&D, we can't let Pontiac steal all our glory!)*   Pontiac had it
available on a lot, I think.  I've seen a lot of Gran Prix's with it, too.
As for the older Olds's I have no idea.  Our '88 Pace Car (college, not
mine) has it, but I don't think it was an available option that year.  Which
would logically leave '89 to current unknown and possible.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:32:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Blower

>I've got a '71 Cutlass Supreme with a blower that grinds and rattles when I
>turn it on.  It seems to blow heat and change speeds, but i'm thinking its
>fan is loose.  Any ideas?

Whoa, I kinda read that wrong the first time!  I found myself wonderring how
you were turning on a supercharger...  I'd suspect your blower motor is just
travelling its last miles, as they tend to get noisy and moody after they
reach their useful limits.  Most of them I've found that are ready to head
south seem to make similar noises.  My Cutlass motors would stop
occasionally, and I'd have to pop the hood and go out and hit the thing.  It
usually came back on.  When it blew no more, I gave up and bought a new one.
The older models are a little trickier, since they're in there in such a
~friendly~ place.  While the fan may be loose, it may also be free play in
the motor's bearings allowing the fan to hit items in its path, or it may
likely just be growling bearings.  I've run up against all of these in my
cars at some point in time.  If I remember right, you've got one of the
joyous models that is such a thrill to access, so I'd highly recommend just
replacing it.  You'll not be very happy with yourself if you pull it out,
tighten up the fan, put it all back together, and then finding out the
motors about shot anyway.  ~That~ is a truly disheartening feeling, trust
me!  Anyway, Good luck, and all....

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:32:41 -0400
Subject: Bill's carb X-change &Buick Doors (was:  ADMIN...)

>Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
>too long?

Yeah, that'd be informative.  Those interchange lists are really nice to see
here.

Back to the interchangeablility (sp?) of the mid 80's Regal/Cutlass doors...
I saw a Regal drive by today, and the door did look remarkably familiar to
me.  I couldn't get very close to it, but the areas I had in question looked
the same.  We may have a new supply of doors after all!  I'll have to dig
more, mind you, but it looks better than I'd thought, which is good, 'cuz I
need about four of 'em!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:32:41 -0400
Subject: Bill's carb X-change &Buick Doors (was:  ADMIN...)

>Does anyone want me to do an interchange on carburetors or are the lists
>too long?

Yeah, that'd be informative.  Those interchange lists are really nice to see
here.

Back to the interchangeablility (sp?) of the mid 80's Regal/Cutlass doors...
I saw a Regal drive by today, and the door did look remarkably familiar to
me.  I couldn't get very close to it, but the areas I had in question looked
the same.  We may have a new supply of doors after all!  I'll have to dig
more, mind you, but it looks better than I'd thought, which is good, 'cuz I
need about four of 'em!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:32:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Outside Door Handles for '72 and Earlier

>He says that you
>just need to go to a dealer that carries heavy trucks and ask for
>outside door handles for a Chevy (or is it GMC?) "Bruin" model. He
>claims they are identical.

Are there any specific year "Bruin" models, or just ask for a later model
year? - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: John and Elizabeth Gene <gene@cybernex.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:23:29 -0400
Subject: 1970 engine identification

I have a 350 out of a 1970 Vista Cruiser station wagon. While I was at the
book store today I was browsing through a book on Oldsmobiles. It stated
the standard engine for the Vista Cruiser was a 350 with 9.0 compression.
Its horsepower rating was 250 @ 4400 RPM. Its torque rating was 355 @ 2600
RPM. There was an optional 350 motor with a higher compression (10.25),
horsepower and torque ratings. I failed to record these ratings. I have
four questions:

1) Will any engine numbers (heads or block) provide me with information
needed to differentiate between these two motors?

2) If so, where are these numbers?

3) Is the 250 HP motor considered a Rocket 350?

4) What engine parts are different between these two motors
(carburetor,intake manifold,camshaft,heads,exhaust manifolds)? 	

Any information would be greatly appreciated, John
+================================+
| John and Elizabeth Gene        |
| mailto:gene@cybernex.net       |
| http://www2.cybernex.net/~gene |
+================================+

------------------------------

From: "Patrick Derkacz" <spencergrant1@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:21:25 -0400
Subject: suggestions for making my '69 442 GO FASTER

I have a '69 442 convertible with a '70 455 in it.  I could use some
suggestions on the most cost efficient way of getting this 4 speed to GO
FASTER.  I have put a '70 W30 cam, an aluminum manifold and a Holley 750 in.
No idea  what the bottom half is. It has a 3.42 posi.  I am thinking of having
 the heads done. Any suggestions? How complicated is this, can it be done by
the do-it-yourselfer? How?  Is there a better way to go?

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:46:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads-Up Display: Which recent models have it?

I believe '89 and up had it as an option on the Cutlass Supreme.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:57:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball joint failure (was: RE: PST suspension bushings

At 03:54 PM 12/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>	   -Reply)
>
>
>
>>>> Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> 12/02/96 02:44pm >>>
>>Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. I bought the PST front end kit about 5 =
>years ago and about 1.5 years later ( at different times) both lower = ball
>joints broke. This was an unusual thing to have happen so I made = sure
><snip>
>
>Anyone else had similar problems with thier PST kit?  I hope not.  Mine
>came yesterday, and I haven't installed it yet...
>
>Chris, did you order the PolyGraphite kit or the rubber kit?  Oh wait, you
>said 5 years ago.  PolyGr. kits prolly didn't exist back then ;)
>
>-Blaine
>
>
>
HI;
You  ME wondering now...as I bought my PST kit about 4yrs ago...and I would
imagine the Ball joints would be the same in the rubber bush kit or
polygraphite..(mine is polygraphite) I got the complete kit with  balljoints
and all...and it is now installed in my 71 442 W30..convert..I DON'T want
anything to  happen to me or my car..suggestions? Blair Rendell>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:53:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 engine identification

>1) Will any engine numbers (heads or block) provide me with information
>needed to differentiate between these two motors?

I don't think so.

>2) If so, where are these numbers?

Block casting number is on the flat area of the block behind the water pump,
beside the oil fill tube.  For the heads, look on the lower left corner of
the head (by the #1 or #8 spark plug hole).  There should be a number about
1 1/2" high.  If they're 1970 SB heads, they should have a 6 there.

>3) Is the 250 HP motor considered a Rocket 350?

Yes.  The "350" refers to displacement, not horsepower.

>4) What engine parts are different between these two motors
>(carburetor,intake manifold,camshaft,heads,exhaust manifolds)? 	

Most likely the lower hp engine has a two barrel carb & intake manifold, a
milder cam, and different pistons.  That's probably about all that's
different from a performance/hp aspect.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:20:07 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Quality and Rust

On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, C.R.F. wrote:

> >>
> >Up here in New England they love to spread salt all over the roads in the
> >winter time also...I owned a few Ford Pinto's while I was in school and
> >they seemed to hold up to the winters quite well. The last Pinto I owned
> >was bought from the original owner and he treated the car with a 50/50
> >mixture of Linseed oil and Marvel mystery oil in all the high prone rust
> >areas and when i put the car together in '90 (Mustang SVO 2.3 turbo, T-5,
> >and posi rear) the car was totally  rust free except for the minor rust
> >on the suspension parts etc... I sold the car in Dec or '95 and after
> >5 hard winters with me the only rust on the car was in the trunk were the
> >battery was mounted (paint had chipped near the hold down bracket)..I
> >didn't find out about this "mystery" oil mix until after I bought the
> >car, and in talking with the owner he had done this trick to a 77 LTD
> >wagon that is still running around with 150k plus miles and still no rust
> >on the body (although the car looks like hell so I am told)...;-)
> >
> >Steve
> >71 Cutlass S 455
> >93 Mustang LX 5.0
> >
> >
>
> Do you use boiled or raw linseed oil for this?
>
> The Wiz
>
Good question...I tried to get in touch with him tonight, although he was
out. I did talk to his son who said to use "boiled".

Is there much difference between the two???

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
> >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:26:04 -0400
Subject: Carburetor Interchange

These carburetors interchange:

CARBURETORS - OLDSMOBILE

'59-60 2BC              762
       4BC              763
'61-63 2BC              764
       4BC              763
'64    Jetstar 88
       2BC, std trans   765
            AT          766
       4BC, std trans   767
            AT          768
       others
       2BC, W/AC        764
            W/O         769
       4BC, W/CCV       770
            W/O         763
'65    Jetstar 88, 2BC  771
       4BC, std trans   772
            AT          773
       others, 2BC      774
       4BC W/AC         775
           W/O          776
'66    AIR
       Jetstar 88, 2BC  780
                   4BC  778
       others, 2BC      782
               4BC      779
       exc AIR
       Jetstar 88, 2BC  771
          4BC W/AC      777
              W/O       778
       others, 2BC      774
               4BC      779
'67    AIR
       8-330 2BC        789
             4BC
       8-425 2BC        791
             4BC        788
       exc AIR
       8-330 2BC        784
             4BC        785
       8-425 2BC W/CAP  787
                 W/O    786
             4BC        788
;68    8-350 2BC        793
             4BC        794
       8-455 2BC        795
             4BC        796
'69    8-350 2BC        793
       8-455 2BC        795
             4BC        796
'70    8-350 2BC        935
       8-455 2BC        935
             4BC 365 HP 958
                 390 HP 959

OLDSMOBILE F85

'61    2BC std trans    802
           AT           798
       4BC              800
'62    Jetfire std trans 802
               AT       798
       others
       2BC std trans early 802
                     late  803
           AT early     798
              late      804
       4BC 1st & 2nd type  799
           3rd type     805
'63    Jetfire std trans  800
               AT       801
       others
       2BC std trans    803
           AT           804
       4BC std trans    806
           AT           807
'64    6 cyl std trans  562
             AT
       8 cyl 2BC std trans  765
                 AT     766
             4BC std trans  767
                 AT     768
'65    6-225 std trans  564
             AT         565
       8-330 2BC        ?
             4BC        771
       std trans        772
       AT               773
       8-400 (442) W/AC  775
                   W/O  776
'66    AIR
       6-250 AT         604
       8-330 2BC        780
             4BC        778
       8-400 (442 4BC)  779
       exc AIR
       6-250 std trans  594
             AT         621C
       8-330 2BC        771
             4BC W/AC   777
                 W/O    778
       8-400 (442)
         1-4BC W/AC     808
               W/O      779
         3-2BC front    809
               center   810
               rear     811
'67    AIR
       6-250 std trans  803
             AT         604
       8-330 2BC        789
             4BC        785
       8-400 4BC        788
       exc AIR
       6-250 std trans  594
             AT         621C
       8-330 2BC        784
             4BC        785
       8-400 4BC        788
'68    6-250 std trans  812
             AT         577
       8-350 2BC        793
       4BC W/outside air ind 960
           W/O          794
       8-400 2BC        795
       4BC W/outside air ind 961
           W/O          962
       8-455 (Hurst)
           W/AC         796
           W/O          969
'69    6-250 std trans  899
             AT         891
       8-450 2BC        793
       4BC W/outside air ind 960
           W/o          794
       8-400 4BC
       W/outside air ind 961
       W/O std trans    962
       W/O AT           796
       8-455 4BC        796
'70    6-250 std trans  893
             AT         894
       8-350 2BC        935
       4BC W/outside air ind 963
           W/O std trans 964
           W/O AT       965
       8-455 2BC        936
       4BC 442
       W/outside air ind
       std trans        966
       AT               967
       W/O std trans    964
           AT           959
       exc 442 AT (350) 965
               AT (400)
        Cutlass Supreme 959
        Skyroof SW      958

TORONADO

'66                     779
'67                     884
'68-69                  886
'70                     968

INTERCHANGE

762    2bc Rochester 2GC 22-215     Olds '59-60 2BC.
763    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-508B    Olds '59-63 4BC.
                                    Olds '64 4BC (exc J88) W/O closed
crankcase vent.
764    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-535     Olds '61-63 2BC.
765    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-526     Olds '64 Jetstar 88 2BC, std trans.
                                    Olds F85 8 cyl 2BC std trans.
766    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-525     Olds '64 Jetstar 88 2BC AT.
                                    Olds F85 '64 8 cyl 2BC AT.
767    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-515     Olds '64 Jetstar 88 4BC std trans.
                                    Olds F85 '64 8 cyl 4BC std trans.
768    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-514     Olds '64 Jetstar 88 4BC AT.
                                    Olds '64 8 cyl 4BC AT.
769    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-524     Olds '64 2BC (exc J88) W/O AC.
770    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-516     Olds '64 4BC (exc J88) W/closed
crankcase vent.
771    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-530A    Olds '65 Jetstar 88 2BC.
                                    Olds '66 Jetstar 88 W/O AIR.
                                    Olds F85 '65 8-330 2BC.
                                    Olds F85 '66 8-330 W/O AIR.
772    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-519     Olds '65 Jetstar 88 4BC std trans.
                                    Olds F85 8-330 4BC std trans.
773    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-518     Olds '65 Jetstar 88 4BC AT.
                                    Olds F85 '65 8-330 4BC AT.
774    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-527A    Olds '65 2BC exc Jetstar 88.
                                    Olds '66 2BC (exc J88) W/O AIR.
775    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-552     Olds '65 4BC (exc J88) W/AC.
                                    Olds F85 '65 8-400 (442) W/AC.
776    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-517     Olds '65 4BC (exc J88) W/O AC.
                                    Olds F85 '65 8-400 (442) W/O AC.
777    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-527     Olds '66 Jetstar 88 4BC AC W/O AIR.
                                    Olds F85 '66 8-330 4BC AC W/O AIR.
778    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-544     Note: 24-544 is service replacement
for A & B.
                                    A. W/O AIR
                                       Olds '66 Jetstar 88 4BC W/O AC.
                                       Olds F85 '66 8-330 4BC W/O AC.
                                    B. W/AIR
                                       Olds '66 Jetstar 88 4BC
                                       olds F85 '66 8-330 4BC.
779    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-551     Note: 24-551 is service replacement
for A & B.
                                    A. W/O AIR
                                       Olds '66 4BC exc Jetstar 88.
                                       Olds F85 '66 8-400 4BC (442) W/O
AC.
                                       Toronado '66.
                                    B. W/AIR
                                       Olds '66 4BC exc Jetstar 88.
                                       Olds F85 '66 8-400 4BC (442)
                                       Toronado '66.
780    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-532     Olds '66 Jetstar 88 2BC W/AIR.
                                    Olds F85 '66 8-330 2BC
W/AIR.
782    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-531     Olds '66 2BC (exc J88) W/AIR.
784    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-540     Olds '67 8-330 2BC W/O AIR.
                                    Olds F85 '67 8-330 2BC W/O AIR.
785    4BC Rochester 4MV 22-547     Note: 24-547 is service replacement
for models W/AIR & W/O AIR.
                                    Olds '67 8-330 4BC.
                                    Olds F85 '67 8-330 4BC.
786    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-542     Olds '67 8-425 2BC exc CAP & AIR.
787    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-543     Olds '67 8-425 2BC CAP.
788    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-545     Note: 24-545 is service replacement
for models W/AIR & W/O AIR.
                                    Olds '67 8-425 4BC.
                                    Olds F85 '67 8-400 4BC.
789    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-541     Olds '67 8-330 2BC W/AIR.
                                    Olds F85 '67 8-330 2BC w/AIR.
791    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-539     Olds '67 8-425 W/AIR.
793    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-548     Olds '68-68 8-350 2BC.
                                    Olds F85 '68-69 8-350 2BC.
794    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-540     Olds '68 8-350 4BC.
                                    Olds F85 '68-69 8-350 4BC W/outside
air ind.
795    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-547     Olds '68-69 8-455 2BC.
                                    Olds F85 '69 8-400 2BC.
796    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-541     Olds '68-69 8-455 4BC.
                                    Olds F85 '68 8-455 (Hurst) W/AC.
                                    Olds F85 '69 8-400 4BC AT (W/O
outside air ind).
                                    Olds F85 '69 8-455.
798    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-533     Olds F85 '61 2BC AT.
                                    Olds F85 early '62 2BC AT.
799    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-509A '61 (1st type '62)
                         24-510 2nd type '62
                                    Note: 1st type stpd 7020953 &
7020952, 2nd type stpd 7020985.
                                    Olds F85 '61 4BC.
                                    Olds F85 '62 (1st & 2nd type) 4BC.
800    1BC Rochester R 7016331      Note: Jetfire is a turbo-charged
engine.
                                    Olds F85 '62-63 Jetfire std trans.
801    1BC Rochester RC 7016228     Note: Jetfire is a turbo-charged
engine.
                                    Olds F85 '62-63 Jetfire AT.
802    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-534     Olds F85 '61 early '62 2BC std
trans.
803    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-521     Olds F85 late '62-63 2BC std trsans.
804    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-520     Olds F85 late '62-63 2BC AT.
805    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-511     Olds F85 '62 3rd type 4BC AT.
806    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-513     Olds F85 '63 4BC std trans.
807    4BC Rochester 4GC 24-512     Olds F85 '63 4BC AT.
808    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-528     Olds F85 '66 8-400 (442) 4BC AC W/O
AIR.
809    2BC Rochester 2G 22-536      Olds F85 '66 8-400 (442) 3-2BC (fr
carburetor).
810    2BC Rochester 2GV 22-537     Olds F85 '66 8-400 (442) 3-2BC
(center carburetor).
811    2BC Rochester 2G 22-538      Olds F85 '66 8-400 (442) 3-2BC (rr
carburetor).
884    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-546     Note; 24-546 is service replacement
for  models W/AIR & W/O AIR.
                                    Toronado '67.
886    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-542     Toronado '68-69.
935    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-549     Olds '70 8-350.
                                    Olds '70 8-455 2BC.
                                    Olds  F85 '70 8-350
936    2BC Rochester 2GC 22-550     Olds F85 8-455 BC.
958    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-553     Olds '70 8-455 4BC 365 HP.
                                    Olds F85 '70 Skyroof SW W/8-455 4BC
& 400 AT.
959    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-557     Olds '70 8-455 4BC 390 HP.
                                    Olds F85 '70 442 AT W/O outside air
ind.
                                    Olds F85 '70 Cutlass surpeme w/8-455
& 400 AT.
960    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-550     Olds F85 '68 8-455 (Hurst) W/O AC.
                                    Olds F85 '68-69 8-350 4BC W/outside
air ind.
961    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-559     Olds F85 '68-69 8-400 4BC W/outside
air ind.
962    4BC Rochester 4MV 24-548     Olds F85 '68 8-400 4BC W/O outside
air ind.
                                    Olds F85 '68 8-400 4BC std trans W/O
outside air ind.
963    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-555     Olds F85 '70 8-350 4BC W/outside air
ind.
964    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-556     Olds F85 '70 8-350 4BC std trans W/O
outside air ind.
                                    Olds F85 '70 442 8-455 4BC std trans
W/O outside air ind.
965    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-552     Olds F 85 '70 8-350 4BC AT W/O
outside air ind.
                                    Olds F85 '70 8-455 4BC W/350 AT (exc
442).
966    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-558     Olds F85 '70 442 8-455 4BC std trans
w/outside air ind.
967    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-559     Olds F85 442 8-455 4BC AT W/outside
air ind.
968    4BC Rochester 4MC 24-554     Toronado '70.

That ought to be enough carburetors.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:30:32 -0400
Subject: Re: A New Arrival

Mike Coccagna wrote:
>
> Howdy Folks!
>
> I wanted to announce the arrival of my new addition to the family, a
> '93 SCX.  I saw Doug's note as I was eating my lunch and almost
> choked that his SCX items were suddenly available....
>
>
> Now wondering about Doug's part prices....
>
> Mike
> '91 W-40 442
> '93 W-41 SCX


Mike,

Congratulations.  Those are fine cars.  It sounds like parts are a
little high though.

BTW.  We have an Indy Pace commemorative Cutlass in a salvage yard
here.  It has leather seats in grey.  I stole the Indy badges which were
done in nice cloisine.  Would anything from one of these help your cars?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Groundz212@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:39:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 engine identification

Yes that 350 is considered a rocket motor, there is no way to tell the motors
apart by id numbers (except for 2 letters on the oil filler tube which
probably aren't there but if they are QV 310hp 4bbl, QN 310hp 4bbl, QP 310hp
4bbl, QX 325hp 4bbl, QD 325hp 4bbl all of these motrs has 10.25:1 compression
and if it has a 4bbl it's at least a 310 hp motor with 10.25:1 compression.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:47:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 engine identification

Just to add a few things to Dave's post on this:

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John and Elizabeth Gene wrote:

> 1) Will any engine numbers (heads or block) provide me with information
> needed to differentiate between these two motors?

Probably not. The ID codes on these engines were a paper label on the oil
fill tube, usually long gone.

> 2) If so, where are these numbers?
>
> 3) Is the 250 HP motor considered a Rocket 350?

Absolutely. The "Rocket" designation comes from the general design of
these engines, not the HP rating.

> 4) What engine parts are different between these two motors
> (carburetor,intake manifold,camshaft,heads,exhaust manifolds)? 	

Manifold, carb, and air cleaner are the main visible differences. Some
small bracketry and the like is also different of course. Distributor is
slightly different in terms of either vacuum or mechanical advance, but
nothing major. The main internal difference is in the pistons, with the
4-barrel hi-compression pistons having a more shallow dish than the
2-barrel ones. As far as I know the heads and camshaft are the same. This
all assumes we are talking about the "normal" 350 4-barrel and not the
W-31 hi-performance one that had ram-air, in which case many items are
different.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:00:24 -0400
Subject: Slim Pickings

Just to add a little to the discussions on rust in the Northeast:

Today I was at a meeting in an area with lots of used car lots, so at
lunch me and a co-worker decided to cruise the lots and see what was
there. Found some interesting stuff, but...

'72 Cutlass convertible. Body didn't look bad though there was no way to
tell how much fill might be under an older cheap repaint. Car looked like
it needed most everything except maybe a top; 350-2bbl painted orange.
Asking price $3250, probably worth half that.

Early 80's 98 coupe! Been looking for one of these forever and never had
even seen one here before. Just about gave John (my buddy who was
driving) a heart attack when I yelled at him to turn around. What a shame
though. Car was totally rusted in some strange places (like the roof!).
Don't know how it could be licensed with holes like that.

'84 Cutlass Calais. Real pretty from a distance, asking $2995. Burgundy,
T-tops, SSIIIs. Recent paint covered a rotting body though. Another
shame. I passed.

'87 Custom Cruiser wagon, asking $3500. Rust blisters just about
everywhere. Not rust-out (at least not yet) but what seemed to be a bad
paint job from the factory. Needed and deserved a new paint job, ran good
otherwise. Sold while we were there.

Seems as though good samples of these cars just do not come on the market
here very often. All I've been able to find is mostly junk. I'll keep
looking though... would love to find a '77-'79 88 or 98 coupe with a 403...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:55:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill's carb X-change &Buick Doors (was:  ADMIN...)

At 06:32 PM 12/4/96 -0400, buehner wrote:

>Back to the interchangeablility (sp?) of the mid 80's Regal/Cutlass doors...
>I saw a Regal drive by today, and the door did look remarkably familiar to
>me.  I couldn't get very close to it, but the areas I had in question looked
>the same.  We may have a new supply of doors after all!  I'll have to dig
>more, mind you, but it looks better than I'd thought, which is good, 'cuz I
>need about four of 'em!

Well my Mitchell Interchange Manual goes up to 1979 and it lists the
following:

These doors interchange
Part No#20055460-61
Buick Century 78-79 2Dr, Regal
Olds Cutlass 78-79 2Dr, Calais and Supreme

Part No#20055462-63
Buick Century78-79 2Dr, except Regal
Olds Cutlass 78-79 2Dr, Salon
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Sport Administration Grad Student at Kent State University
93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), Lic. Plate: "1FST93Z"
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, Lic.Plate:"OLDSPWR"
75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:52:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 engine identification

At 06:23 PM 12/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I have a 350 out of a 1970 Vista Cruiser station wagon... standard engine
>for the Vista Cruiser was a 350 with 9.0 compression...There was an
>optional 350 motor with a higher compression (10.25),
>horsepower and torque ratings. I failed to record these ratings. I have
>four questions:
>
>1) Will any engine numbers (heads or block) provide me with information
>needed to differentiate between these two motors?

You are looking for the two-letter code on the oil fill tube, which
designates what motor is in there. The casting numbers will all be the same.
I believe the big difference between these motors, aside from compression,
is the 2-bbl carburetor in the low-compression engine vs. the 4-bbl in the
high-compression engine.

>2) If so, where are these numbers?

They would be listed in the 1970 shop manual (sorry, don't have one...)

>3) Is the 250 HP motor considered a Rocket 350?

ALL Olds V-8 pushrod engines are considered "Rocket" engines (i.e. "Rocket
260..." ;)

>4) What engine parts are different between these two motors
>(carburetor,intake manifold,camshaft,heads,exhaust manifolds)? 	

Pistons, intake, carb and perhaps distributor weights. Everything else is
identical, I believe, including the cam.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:06:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Slim Pickings

At 09:00 PM 12/4/96 -0400, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

>Early 80's 98 coupe! Been looking for one of these forever and never had
>even seen one here before. Just about gave John (my buddy who was
>driving) a heart attack when I yelled at him to turn around. What a shame
>though. Car was totally rusted in some strange places (like the roof!).
>Don't know how it could be licensed with holes like that.

Too bad. We have a 1983 beige 98 with blue interior in our salvage yard.
This car is in excellent condition, never wrecked, the previous owner just
didn't want it. It will forever remain as a parts car as it is getting
extremely dificult to get a title for a car out of a towing yard (in Ohio at
least)  and when you do it is a "salvage title" which ruins resale value.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Sport Administration Grad Student at Kent State University
93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), Lic. Plate: "1FST93Z"
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, Lic.Plate:"OLDSPWR"
75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: Richard Sobtzak <subby@prairie.lakes.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:14:41 -0400
Subject: 1935 Oldsmobile

  Looking for any literature on a 1935 olds flatback sedan.
  Anything would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:39:01 -0400
Subject: Re: A New Arrival

On  5 Dec 96 at 14:30, Bill Culp wrote:

> BTW.  We have an Indy Pace commemorative Cutlass in a salvage yard
> here.  It has leather seats in grey.  I stole the Indy badges which
> were done in nice cloisine.  Would anything from one of these help

Bill,

Thanks for the offer.  I don't think the Indy Cutlass parts will be
helpful if they are the '88 Cutlass Supreme (W-Body?) since I have 2
N-Bodies.  If it is an '85? Cutlass Calais Indy car (FWD), then it is then
an N-Body, and there is probably little mechanical that is helpful.
But let me know if it is the smaller, Calais body, I may want some
interior trim, since the 442 has had 110,000 miles of use, and needs
a little prettying up on the interior-

Thanks again!

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:51:24 -0400
Subject: Re: option codes

In a message dated 96-12-04 10:03:29 EST, you write:

> Codes
>  	B01
>  	FFC
>  	FFP
>  	PON
>  	YT9
>  These are not listed and I have no clue as to what they might be.

OH NO!!!!  I used to have a book that decoded all these options and now I
can't find it.  I've had it since 1984, got it from a GM dealer.  It had a
white cover and was about 3 x 6.  We've moved and I don't remember seeing it
since.  I'm thinking I may have even thrown it away because I didn't use it,
but I had it all those years, and now its gone, and now you could use it.
 This really has me burned up.  I'll keep lookng.

Paul
Kicking himself

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:53:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Slim Pickings

Okay, so what you do, is sell the car to Greg B.  Have Bill down in
'Bammy title it-- they'll title anything in Alabama!  Get it back up to
Greg and then he'll have his 98!  :-)



Incedentally Jason, if Greg doesn't want it, how much would you take for
the car?  We're not THAT far from Ohio here, and I've got a friend that
desperately needs a good car cheap!  Is it driveable?

Also, I kept the title for the Delta 88 that I swapped the motor into my
'84 Cutlass from, so my motor is titled!
Hmmm.  I think I'll get plates for it  :-)


Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Jason Labay wrote:

> At 09:00 PM 12/4/96 -0400, Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> >Early 80's 98 coupe! Been looking for one of these forever and never had
> >even seen one here before. Just about gave John (my buddy who was
> >driving) a heart attack when I yelled at him to turn around. What a shame
> >though. Car was totally rusted in some strange places (like the roof!).
> >Don't know how it could be licensed with holes like that.
>
> Too bad. We have a 1983 beige 98 with blue interior in our salvage yard.
> This car is in excellent condition, never wrecked, the previous owner just
> didn't want it. It will forever remain as a parts car as it is getting
> extremely dificult to get a title for a car out of a towing yard (in Ohio at
> least)  and when you do it is a "salvage title" which ruins resale value.
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
> Sport Administration Grad Student at Kent State University
> 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), Lic. Plate: "1FST93Z"
> 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, Lic.Plate:"OLDSPWR"
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project up for $sale$
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #392
********************************
 
