To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	12/01/96 07:55:24 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #387


oldsmobile-digest         Sunday, 1 December 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 387


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 08:43:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Ways to keep vandals off your car (Was scratches...)

At 06:50 AM 11/30/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-11-29 23:14:22 EST, you write:
>
><< My favorites are razor blades lining the undernearth of my dash
around > the stereo and a fake bomb set on the trans hump and one under
the hood > (which I'm sure is illegal). > > As for the electric
devices I read about a setup that you could buy that > hooked up to the
drivers seat and if the car was stolen it would keep > seding
electrical shocks to the seat. > > Unfortunately in this country any
type of booby trapping is illegal and > the car thief can turn around
and sue you.  Only in America. > > George Torch >  >> >That's what's
neat about the good ol' USA. We as a people have the power to >change
things. I'm sure that if we approach the right people, we can pull it
>together against these car thieves. Personally, I believe that we
should go >back to the ways in the pre- 70's. A shotgun is a mighty
effective deterrent >against crime. > >Katana72 > > Last year I
personally saw a Colt .45 do a fine job of crime stopping.

Final score,

Armed robber            0

Armed shop owner        1

The bad guy made it all the way to the street before falling over dead,
100 feet on pure adrealin.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:20:54 -0400
Subject: Heads....  which is better... #5's, or #7's?

As you all know, I've found a few nice items nearby that I am planning
on getting, but I have a question that maybe someone could answer.
Which is better, #5 or #7 heads.  The Olds. FAQ doesn't say anything in
that respect, lists cc. of head as identical.  Obviously the #7's are
supposed to have the larger valves, but have hardened seats also.  Is
this the only benefit of using the newer heads?  If anybody with some
expirience with these heads could help me out, it'd be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:20:54 -0400
Subject: Items found at junkyard!!!....   READ THIS!

Yesterday I made another trip to the local junkyard and I found a few
things which may be of interest.  First off though, I came there
interested in a set of #7 heads that I found on my last "hunting" trip
and asked him about prices.  He said heads would start at about $100 a
set (newer ones I think) and go up.  He did also say that he was
suprised cause a few months back a guy came and paid $200 for a set of
Pontiac Firebird high performance heads that were all rusty, he said he
couldn't believe that someone (who came about 2 hrs. to get them) paid
that much for a rusty set of heads.  Somehow I'd bet the guy that found
them has a much better outlook on the situation, and what he paid for
them.  Anyways, here's the list:

One set of "C" heads, in a pile, and of course somewhat rusted from
being outside, etc.  BTW, what're a set of "C" heads going for these
days?  Just out of curiousity.

One Cutlass body (unsure of year) VIN #: 342570M154864, 2 door model,
missing front clip and motor, but had 2 pretty solid doors on it, no
interior at all.

One 2 door Cutlass ('69 I think from what's marked on it) VIN
#:336879M148146, 2 door model also, 2 solid doors, possibly a hood
(didn't look it over good cause it had snow in it, 350 w/out some parts,
but a #5 set of heads on it.

One older convertable (couldn't figure out model, rusted, and no badges
on it), no interior, motor with "C" heads on it.

One Delmont 88, 425 badges on it, motor w/out carb, "C" heads on it,
body missing inner and outer front drivers side fenders, and hood
(didn't see it at least), and busted back window, interior still in
pretty good shape, alot there, not all tore up, dark green
interior/exterior.  Surface rust on it, but nothing major that I saw
off-hand, doors were in good shape, and oh yeah... 4 door....

Older Cutlass wagon, body in rough shape, no interior from what I saw
(didn't go over to it, just looked from the front of the car cause it's
back against the fence), had a #7 set of heads on it, hood on it may be
fine, but again, covered with snow.

The motors I found that had what looked like fuel injection, turned out
to be deisels, 3 as a matter of fact.

That's what I've found so far.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:18:07 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Ways to keep vandals off your car (Was scratches...)

     If you set up a booby trap correctly, I don't see how the theif
could
     ever pin anything on you.  He'd probably be afraid of incriminating

     himself, and I suppose you could always remove the trap right
     afterwards.  The police, at least around here, tend to look the
other
     way about that sort of thing.  For example, a plainclothes security

     guard at a place I used to work chased a shoplifter one day.  He
     caught him, and somehow the bad guy bashed his own face into the
     concrete several times ;-)  Told the police "he fell down while
     running away", police kinda smiled and said "yup, that must be it".

     My brother had paging alarm system on his truck which would first
page
     him, then 30 seconds later it would sound the siren.  Hopefully he
     would be able to get out of the house with the shotgun in those
first
     30 seconds to meet the guy. . .  Never got to "use" it though.

     I heard a story about the "razor blades under the dash" once.
     Somebody protected his fog lights that way after having 3 pairs
     stolen.  He went out the next day to find a fingertip under his
     foglights, and a large, bloody, concrete traffic barricate through
his
     window and hood as retaliation.

     There's always the LoJack style system, which is a radio
transmitter
     the cops can use to locate your car.

     Personally, my favorite idea was the camera that pops up out of the

     dash and says "smile" and proceeds to fax the bad guys picture to
you
     over the cell phone. . .


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Ways to keep vandals off
your car (Was scratches...) Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at
INTERNET Date:    11/30/96 3:05 AM


That's what's neat about the good ol' USA. We as a people have the power
to change things. I'm sure that if we approach the right people, we can
pull it together against these car thieves. Personally, I believe that
we should go back to the ways in the pre- 70's. A shotgun is a mighty
effective deterrent against crime.

Katana72


------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:24:05 -0400
Subject: New MD Olds Club Meeting

   The "second" meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on
Saturday December 7 down near BWI airport in Hanover, MD.
   The first meeting had about 9 people show up and there are around 40
people currently interested.  We will be discussing bylaws and maybe the
club's first event.  Also, Ernie Swanson, owner of Glen Burnie
Oldsmobile will bee attending
   Anyone interested in joining, or know of someone who might be
interested, dropme some e-mail.  I have directions to the meeting.

 ---
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: kelleyll@enter.net
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 15:08:50 -0400
Subject: engine detailing

Hello all,

Tom Lesniak here and I am brand new to the Olds
email list and I have a few questions.  My son and I own
a '65 F-85 Cutlass that we are presently fixing.  Some
specs:  330 cid w/ high compression, 4 barrel carb, jetaway
tranny, all original right down to the gas tank cap!!!

Next project is to detail the engine compartment.  We need
to determine which shades of black for the following parts:
hood, hood hinges, inner fenders, firewall, radiator &
support crossmember, fan, ps & alternator bracket & the
horns.

Any ideas where we can buy the decal for the glass
washer bottle?

What color are the exhaust manifolds?(cast silver or gray?)

Also, where is a good(relatively inexpensive) supply company
for Olds' parts?  We currently have a Paddock Catalog($$$)

Thanks,


Tom & Stephen Lesniak

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 13:17:58 -0400
Subject: Interchange Material (Long)

I have this interchange manual that has some interesting things for the
FAQ.  I'll start w/this material:

Serial & Waranty Plates
Location:  61-67 on front hinge pillar
	   68-71 top of insrument panel, left lide, visable throuth 	
windshield

EXAMPLE 1961-1963
                    61     2    M    01001
        Year (1961)/      /      \     \First Serial Number (not listed)
                         /        \
             Car Series /          \Assembly Plant (not listed)

EXAMPLE 1964
                         8    4    4    M    001001
Engine (6-6cyl, 8-8 cyl)/     /     \    \    \First Serial Number (not
                             /       \    \
listed)                   Car Series/         \    \Assembly Plant (not
listed)
                                       \
                                        \Year (1964)

EXAMPLE  1968-1971
	
                3   56   39   7   M   1001001
Division (Olds)/    /    /     \   \   \First Serial Number (not listed)
                   /    /       \   \
        Car Series/    /         \   \Assembly Plant (not listed)
                      /           \
            Body Type/             \Year (7-1967, 8-1968, etc)

            (Oldsmobile - Delmont 88 "425" 4 Dr. H.T. - 1967)


OLDSMOBILE (except F85) & TORONADO

1961-1963            1967                         1969-1970
CAR SERIES           CAR SERIES                  CAR SERIES
2   Dynamic 88       52  Delmont 88 "330"        54  Delta 88 (exc.
5   Super 88         54  Delta 88 Custom                        Custom)
6   Starfire         56  Delmont 88 "425"        64  Delta 88 Custom
8   98               58  Delta 88 exc. Custom    66  Delta 88 Royale
                     84  98 exc. Luxury Sdn.     84  98 exc. Luxury
1964                 86  98 Luxury Sdn.          86  98 Luxury
CAR SERIES	     94  Toronado Std.	         94  Toronado
3   Jetatar 88       96  Toronado Deluxe			
4   Dymanic 88                                   BODY TYPE
5   Super 88	     BODY TYPE	                 37 2Dr. H.T.
6   Starfire         39   4Dr. H.T.              39 4Dr. H.T.
7   Jetstar I        57   2Dr. H.T.              47 2Dr. H.T.
8   98 exc. Custom   67   Convertible            57 2Dr. H.T.
9   98 Custom        69   4Dr. Sdn.              67 Convertible
                     87   2Dr. H.T.              69 4Dr. Sdn.
1965-1966                                        87 2Dr. H.T.
CAR SERIES          1968
52  Jetstar 88      CAR SERIES                   1971
54  ('65) Jetstar I 54  Delmont 88               CAR SERIES
54  ('66) Starfire  64  Delta 88 exc. Custom     54  Delta 88
56  Dymanic 88      66  Delta 88 Custom          64  Delta 88 Custom
58  Delta 88        84  98 exc. Luxury Sdn.      66  Delta 88 Royale
66  ('65) Starfire  86  98 Luxury Sdn.           68  Custom Cruiser (SW)
84  98 exc. Luxury  94  Toronado                 84  98
86  98 Luxury Sdn.                               86  98 Luxury
                    BODY  TYPE                   96  Toronado
BODY TYPE           39    4Dr H.T.
37   2Dr. H.T.      57    dDr H.T.               BODY TYPE
39   4Dr. H.T.      67    Convertible            35   S.W., 2 seat
57   2Dr. H.T.      69    4 Dr. Sdn.             37   2Dr. H.T.
67   Convertible    87    2Dr. H.T.              39   4Dr. H.T.
69   4Dr. Sdn.                                   45   S.W., 3 seat
                                                 47   2Dr. H.T.
                                                 57   2Dr. H.T.
                                                 67   Convertible
                                                 69   4Dr. Sdn.

OLDSMOBILE F85

1961-1963                              1968-1970

CAR SERIES                             CAR SERIES
0   F85 Standard                       31  F85 6 cyl exc Cutlass
1   F85 Deluxe                         32  F85 8 cyl exc Cutlass
                                                       & Skyroof
1964                                   35  Cutlass 6 cyl
CAR SERIES                             36  Cutlass 8 cyl exc Supreme
0   F85 Standard                                           & Skyroof
1   F85 Deluxe                         42  Cutlass Supreme
2   f85 Cutlass                        44  442
                                       48  Skyroof SW
1965-1966
CAR SERIES                             BODY STYLE
33  Std F85 6 cyl                      35   SW exc Skyroof
34  Std F85 8 cyl &                    39   4Dr HT
     std skyroof SW                    55   Skyroof SW 2 seat
35  Deluxe F85 6 cyl                   57   2Dr HT
36  Deluxe F85 8 cyl                   65   Skyroof SW 3 seat
      exc skyroof SW                   67   Convertible
38  Custom Skyroof SW                  69   4Dr Sdn
            & Cutlass                  77   2Dr Sdn
                                       87   2Dr HT
BODY TYPE
07   2Dr Sdn                           1971
17   2Dr HT                            CAR SERIES
27   2Dr Sdn                           31  F85 6 cyl
35   SW 2 seat exc Skyroof             32  F85 8 cyl
37   2Dr HT                            35  Cutlass 6 cyl
39   4Dr HT                            36  Cutlass 8 cyl
55   Skyroof SW 2 seat                 42  Cutlass Supreme
65   Skyroof SW 3 seat                 44  442
67   Convertible                       48  Skyroof SW
69   4Dr Sdn
                                       BODY TYPE
1967                                   36   SW exc Skyroof
CAR SERIES                             39   4Dr HT
33  F85 6 cyl exc Cutlass              56   Skyroof SW 2 seat
34  F85 8 cyl & std Skyroof            57   2Dr HT
             SW exc Cutlass            66   Skyroof SW 3 seat
35  Cutlass 6 cyl                      67   Convertible
36  Cutlass 8 cyl exc Supreme          69   4Dr Sdn
38  Cutlass Surpeme & Cutlass          77   2Dr Sdn
                   Skyroof SW          87   2Dr HT

BODY STYLE
07   2Dr Sdn
17   2Dr HT
35   SW exc Skyroof
39   4Dr HT
55   Skyroof SW 2 seat
65   Skyroof SW 3 seat
67   Convertible
69   4Dr Sdn

I hope that this will decode some of those data plates.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 13:32:04 -0400
Subject: Re: engine detailing

kelleyll@enter.net wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Tom Lesniak here and I am brand new to the Olds
> email list and I have a few questions.  My son and I own
> a '65 F-85 Cutlass that we are presently fixing.  Some
> specs:  330 cid w/ high compression, 4 barrel carb, jetaway
> tranny, all original right down to the gas tank cap!!!
>
> Next project is to detail the engine compartment.  We need
> to determine which shades of black for the following parts:
> hood, hood hinges, inner fenders, firewall, radiator &
> support crossmember, fan, ps & alternator bracket & the
> horns.
>
> Any ideas where we can buy the decal for the glass
> washer bottle?

Try Jim Osborn (101 Ridgecrest Dr., Lawrenceville, GA 30245 Cat $3 - PH
404/962-7556) or Del's Decals (6070 10mi Rd. NE, Rockford, IL 49341)
>
> What color are the exhaust manifolds?(cast silver or gray?)

I would use Eastwood's Cast Gray
>
> Also, where is a good(relatively inexpensive) supply company
> for Olds' parts?  We currently have a Paddock Catalog($$$)

I like the Tamraz' Parts Discount Warehouse
	10022 S. Bode Road
	Plainfield, IL  60544
	PH 800/442-4601 (Bob)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom & Stephen Lesniak

Good luck w/your car.  Those are very nice.  Welcome

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:36:07 -0400
Subject: Re: engine detailing

kelleyll@enter.net wrote:
>
> Tom Lesniak here and I am brand new to the Olds
> email list and I have a few questions.  My son and I own
> a '65 F-85 Cutlass that we are presently fixing.

Hey Tom & Son.  Welcome to the list.  Nice ride you've got there.  You
may want to take a look at Bryceman's stuff (at http://www.442.com/
what else?).  He lists a lot of parts suppliers there -- plus some of us
 Olds-weenies' cars.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike



- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:45:37 -0400
Subject: Plug for POINTE TRANSMISSION CO.

Well, after almost 2 months my 62 Dynamic 88 is back on the road with
the smoothest shifting Rotomatic in the world.  In three years of
driving the car would skip second and two months ago it decided to stay
in first permanently.
  I owe it to a local guy who helped diagnose the problem over the
phone. He used to own a trans shop and worked on these things new. And
to Pointe Automatic Transmission CO.
  I never thought I'd find parts for the thing but they had a rebuilt
valve body in stock which was my first order.  The next order consisted
of a NEW governer, filter and gaskets.  The prices also seemed
reasonable.  $85.00 for the valve body, also 85.00 for the governer.
The filter was $35.00 which seemed outrageous, but OLDS USA is selling
them for $79.00.  All orders were recieved within 4 days.

 I don't normally do advertising but I'm real happy with this place.

 POINTE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION CO.
 28409 HARPER AVE.
 ST. CLAIR SHORES, MI 48081
 (810) 776-7300 OR 776-9201


  Also does anybody know if there was ever a recall on the rotomatic
trans?  The governer I replaced had a disintegrated oil ring groove.
The guy at Pointe told me GM had problems with these and the new one he
sent me was cast iron instead of aluminum.

George Torch

62 Dynamic 88
66 Corvair Monza
90 Geo Storm

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:25:14 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDEFC.99190820
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 07:08 AM 11/28/96 -0400, you wrote: Snip> at your local airport, =
>virtually every plane...powered by a 4-cylinder opposed...200 to=20
>360...updraft carb (except FI...Ellison carb...throttle body...one=20
>moving part, a slide valve...cares little...if upside down...There
=20 >are pressure carbs...feed regardless of the attitude...oil is
kept... OH WHO CARES!  The aircraft Olds 215 looks little different
from=20 >the auto version except for the pan, exhaust and carb. =20 >As
far as upside-down engines go, the best known is probably the >V-12
Mercedes Benz DB-601 that powered the Messerschmitt 109. >They were
mechanically fuel injected and thus superior (in that area) >to the
Rolls Royce Merlin used in the Spitfire (an upright V-12) which=20 >was
carbed.  dj - EAA 107359

I agree with your description of what would be found under the "hood" of
most every, reciprocating engined, General Aviation airplane one is =
likely
to encounter, save for one aspect.  The engines, you described, are "V"
= type, not opposed.  An opposed engine has two pistons running in each
= cylinder, two crankshafts, to draw off the power and are rarely =
encountered in the "real world."  You will note, that they are infact, =
180=BA "V," "V" type motors.  Calling the 180=BA "V" type motor =
"opposed" had to have occured=20 a long time ago, by someone that was
actually unfamiliar with the = nomenclature involved, and we are living
with this misnomer to this day. Also, there are probably quite a few six
cylinder Contentals still = flying, as well as their four cylinder
brethern; as I recall that most of the = Cessna 172's, one of the most
widely produced General Aviation aircraft built = used a 145hp, six
cylinder Contental. =20 Another Note:  There was a fairly common U.S.
inverted engine of the = WWII period as well, although it was a far cry
from the big V12s.  It = was=20 a little six cylinder Ranger used in a
number of Air Corps trainers and = light transport and utility aircraft. I
think the ultimate hybridization of any WWII fighter was the Spanish =
Air Force's licensed production of he Bf109, as they used the German =
airframe adapted to the RR Merlin engine, and it is this version of the
= venerable German pursuit ship that is available for the movies; all
but = a few of the German produced birds were wrecked as quickly as
possibly, = following the end of hostilities in 1945.  The Spanish also
produced the = Ju52 transport under license, and the few flying examples
of the Junkers = are of Spanish origin also. The Wiz

Well, I suspect that we are going to have to take this to rec.aviation =
if
we are going to keep this chat going as we have lost our "Olds" theme.
But, one final comment on this.  Yes, I see your point on calling an
"opposed" 4/6 cylinder engines a 180 degree "V" but in 26 years in a
row of attending the Experimental Aircraft Assn flyin, I have NEVER
heard the term used.  The "opposed" motors have individual cylinders
like a VW, with one head on each side.  Score one...throw it away
and leave the other three where they were.  They do not have two =
crankshafts, I suspect that you meant two of something else.  Down=20
here at our little airport are three DeHavilland Herons, each with
two=20 Rolls Royce license-built motors, which are two flat sixes
bolted=20 togather to make a flat twelve.  Now there is a crankshaft!
Never encountered in the "real world"?  These motors are seen ALL OVER
the world.  In the "real aviation world" they are put in Swedish planes,
Japanese planes, etc. I am familiar with the Ranger six, an upside down
inline, 440 cubic inches, 200 to 220 and maybe 260hp.  Tended to burn
the last two cylinders.  Very attractive profile sitting in a Fairchild
F-24R. The hybridized Messerschmitt 109 is a Hispano HA-1110, and I
believe it uses a Rolls Royce Kestrel and not the more well-known
Merlin.  There are a few in the US but landing accidents have planted
all firmly on the ground.  I have slides of one, taken at Oshkosh, but
it never was flown while I was there. So, now I will have to post about
the Toro I found this weekend! dj=20



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From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:30:56 -0400
Subject: RE: Ways to keep vandals off your car (Was scratches...)

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Apparently in Missouri it is no longer illegal to steal cars.  If the =
thief
is caught, he is charged with 'using a motor vehicle without the owners
permission' a misdemeanor, a slap on the wrist, and out right away to =
steal another.  The Wiz

  South Dakota is no more intelligent.  A man on disability in Sioux =
Falls
had his car stolen...and wrecked three blocks later.  His insurance =
company
would not pay him any money for the car because he had not given the =
thief "permission" to drive his car.  Smart people those insurance guys!
dj



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From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:58:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Golden 66 Toro: trim tag & VIN info

In a message dated 96-11-29 10:22:13 EST, you write:

> Here's the trim tag info from my 66 Toro:
>
>  09E

Built 5th week (E) of September, probably 1965

>  66-39687 EUC 2358 BODY

66 Toronado Deluxe, all Toronados had the EUC plant code.  They were all
built in Lansing.

>  054D           GG PNT

054D is the code for Antique Parchment interior (D=deluxe ?).  GG is
Trumpet Gold paint.

>  XY
>  57

Probably option codes, don't know what they mean

>  The body number apppears to be quite low!

Yes, early build date confirms it.

>  Okay, who knows where EUC is?

Lansing, all Toro's have this code (repeating myself, ought to stop
that).  E stood for the E body that the Toronado was, UC?

>  Anything else we can determine from the trim tag?

No.

>  VIN 396876M505141
                           ^^^^^^
Looks like the body sat for a little while.

>  This car has front fenders *without* the sidemarker lights. That
makes >  it a non-Deluxe, right? Coulda sworn Casteele's book claimed
the reverse... >  But then again, he also said that Toros came with 8.85
x 14 inch tires. >  Of course, If I was brushed up on my series # info,
I'd know what a 39687 is.

Sidemarker lights?  They only came out for '68.  Are you talking
Cornering Lights?  Down at the bottom of the fender between the bumper
and the wheel?
 They were an option on both series.  Looked for reference to this in
his book, didn't find it (wasn't really looking to hard, tho.  Did find
the 14 tire reference, probably a typo.  You've had this car, what, a
day?  Well give you another day to bone up on it, but then we'll have to
start assessing demerit points.

>  Another interesting note: This is a non-ac car. Rare?

Not especially.

>  And oh, yes! AM-FM Wonderbar... Sweeeet! :^)

Cool, hope it works OK.

>   Trumpet Gold 66 Toronado; Black 67 Toronado Deluxe

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hey, my parents had one of these when I
was a little kid.  Black, no vinyl top, parchment interior with gold
trim, Dad thinks it had discs.  It was loaded.  Maybe you've found my
long lost Toronado.  VIN was 396877M615346.

Also in search of our trade-in on said Toro, a '62 Starfire convertible,
white with red interior, VIN #626W04730.  Wouldn't it be cool if there
were a Web site where you could plug in VINs to find the owners?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:10:33 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

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>>rotary (and Mazda never used it), the rotary of Mazda's design...
>Mazda used a Wankel rotary.  Dave Paulison

Oh God, here I go again with another non-Olds comment.  However, the
general weirdness of this engine should "OK" it as we all should know
about these off kilter engineering designs. =20
There are two types of motors that are called "rotary engines".  =
Everyone knows about the Wankel, a somewhat recent design, 50 years old
= perhaps. However, there is what is called a "rotary" engine that was
used in MANY of the WWI fighter planes, the Red Barons Triplane being
one.  These motors are radial in design, meaning 7 or 9 cylinders around
a circle, = but are very unique in that the crankshaft is bolted to the
airplane and the =

cylinders are bolted to the propeller.  Spin the prop and the cylinders
= went around with it.  Why they came up with such a bizarre arrangement
at such an early point in motor design is lost on me.  The Gnome from=20
France was used in Snoopy's Sopwith Camel and the Red Baron's Fokker
Triplane (Dr-1 for Driedekker, three wings), had a copy of the Gnome, =
the Rhone rotary. =20 Three oddities exist for these engines,=20
  1: No throttle.  You blipped a kill switch to slow it down.  Leave it
= off too=20 long and you got a "large" explosion when you brought the
spark back on. =
 And with benzene fuel you didn't want to do that.
  2: The use of castor oil for the lube even though they were 4-cycle =
motors.  They spewed castor EVERYWHERE, and the pilot would want a =
gentle landing, lest he...well, it was castor oil y'know!

What the hell is this software doing...god I hate computers!!!

3: There were pusher aircraft in WWI that used rotary engines.  Now
that you turned the motor around backwards, facing the tail, you
still had to bolt the crankshaft to the fuselage.  And, now that you
had done that...where do you put the cylinders.  The answer is
AFTER the prop!  So the propeller is next to the fuselage and the=20
motor whirls around last!!!  Definitely weird!
dj                  |\
                     |\
_________     |\ @
                |\   |\ @
fuselage    | |=3D| | @                  <---plane goes thataway
_________|/    \| @<--motor
                     \| @
          prop -->\|
                     \|

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From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:13:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Golden 66 Toro: trim tag & VIN info

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

> Wouldn't it be cool if there were a
> Web site where you could plug in VINs to find the owners?

There is! Too bad only police departments have the URL!  (;

Actually, there are places that do that. They do it through national
title searches. They somehow get into the DOT data base. Its prolly
public domain, but rather hard to access. Try a (big) public library.

When I was in the car business, we had HUGE book (Bresslers I think).
You could get info on the car owner from the license plate. I believe
it also had a reverse directory.

I wouldn't be surpised if that book is online somehwere.

Sparky (revving up his search engines)
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:20:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchange Material (Long)

Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
> I have this interchange manual that has some interesting things for
the > FAQ.  I'll start w/this material:

SNIP

Hey Bill,

How about a Toro deal like that? Pretty Please??????????

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:36:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Golden 66 Toro: trim tag & VIN info

Greg Kalkhoff wrote:
>
> PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't it be cool if there were a
> > Web site where you could plug in VINs to find the owners?

Here ya go!

http://www.totcon.com/accudata/form18.htm

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:47:01 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

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>> >I'd like to see a picture of one of these inverted 215's.

>I have a "www" site address and you could ask there...Ask for
>any/and/or all and I shall send.  dj

I'd like the WWW address...Thanks, Dave Paulison

The Experimental Aircraft Association home page address is:
http://www.eaa.org/index.html and the plane we have been talking
about is Steve Wittman's Olds powered Tailwind.
dj
PS, I had friends many years ago who moved to Melbourne.  All
I can remember is Judy's first name now.  She invited me to come
down and go out on the ocean in their sailboat...and forget about
our swimsuits once we get out a ways.  I never went...hate water,
REALLY hate water obviously!!!  I often wondered whether they are
still in Melbourne at the U.
dj...dry but sad!

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From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:58:51 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

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>>rotary (and Mazda never used it), the rotary of Mazda's design...
>Mazda used a Wankel rotary.  Dave Paulison

Oh God, here I go again with another non-Olds comment.  However, the
general weirdness of this engine should "OK" it as we all should know
about these off kilter engineering designs. =20
There are two types of motors that are called "rotary engines".  =
Everyone knows about the Wankel, a somewhat recent design, 50 years old
= perhaps. However, there is what is called a "rotary" engine that was
used in MANY of the WWI fighter planes, the Red Barons Triplane being
one.  These motors are radial in design, meaning 7 or 9 cylinders around
a circle, = but are very unique in that the crankshaft is bolted to the
airplane and the =

cylinders are bolted to the propeller.  Spin the prop and the cylinders
= went around with it.  Why they came up with such a bizarre arrangement
at such an early point in motor design is lost on me.  The Gnome from=20
France was used in Snoopy's Sopwith Camel and the Red Baron's Fokker
Triplane (Dr-1 for Driedekker, three wings), had a copy of the Gnome, =
the Rhone rotary. =20 Three oddities exist for these engines,=20
  1: No throttle.  You blipped a kill switch to slow it down.  Leave it
= off too=20 long and you got a "large" explosion when you brought the
spark back on. =
 And with benzene fuel you didn't want to do that.
  2: The use of castor oil for the lube even though they were 4-cycle =
motors.  They spewed castor EVERYWHERE, and the pilot would want a =
gentle landing, lest he...well, it was castor oil y'know!

What the hell is this software doing...god I hate computers!!!

3: There were pusher aircraft in WWI that used rotary engines.  Now
that you turned the motor around backwards, facing the tail, you
still had to bolt the crankshaft to the fuselage.  And, now that you
had done that...where do you put the cylinders.  The answer is
AFTER the prop!  So the propeller is next to the fuselage and the=20
motor whirls around last!!!  Definitely weird!
dj                  |\
                     |\
_________     |\ @
                |\   |\ @
fuselage    | |=3D| | @                  <---plane goes thataway
_________|/    \| @<--motor
                     \| @
          prop -->\|
                     \|

OOPS, I have erred.  There is LeRhone, a French company that made
most of the rotarys.  There is also a Gnome Rhone but I am not
certain=20 as to the lineage of this engine, another French design or a
joint = effort between LeRhone and someone else.  The German motor was a
copy=20 of the LeRhone, and was the Oberursal. dj...hopefully has it
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From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:39:08 -0400
Subject: OCA

It suddenly occured to me as I have read a few posts and messages about
recent issues of JWO that I have not received an issue lately and
suspect they have lost me despite address change notification.  Does
anyone have OCA/JWO address handy so I can write them to let them know?

Thanks in advance.

David Wilk
 still searching for the elusive Vista Cruiser but looking at other
Cutlasses now

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:34:24 -0400
Subject: RE: Golden 66 Toro: trim tag & VIN info

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- ----------
From: 	PHartlieb@aol.com[SMTP:PHartlieb@aol.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, November 30, 1996 8:58 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Golden 66 Toro: trim tag & VIN info


>  Okay, who knows where EUC is?

Made by Euclid?

dj...sorry :-)

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From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:43:15 -0400
Subject: RE: Aluminum Drums

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- ----------
From: 	Steve Ochs[SMTP:76057.1404@CompuServe.COM]
Sent: 	Friday, November 29, 1996 2:22 PM
To: 	oldsmobile
Subject: 	Aluminum Drums

The Wiz mentioned the quality from Mother GM.  I will be the first one
to admit GM's quality during the mid 80's left a lot to be desired...

Sorry for the snipping...but from the time my brothers 64 Malibu came
out to when had owned his 78 Regency, GM vehicles rusted out around
the front and rear windshields.  Why did it take them 20 years to figure
 out how to cure this?  It wasn't a problem with FoMopar products. dj



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From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:39:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Plug for POINTE TRANSMISSION CO.

George Torch wrote:
>
> Well, after almost 2 months my 62 Dynamic 88 is back on the road with
> the smoothest shifting Rotomatic in the world.  In three years of
driving > the car would skip second and two months ago it decided to
stay in first > permanently. >   I owe it to a local guy who helped
diagnose the problem over the phone. > He used to own a trans shop and
worked on these things new. And to Pointe > Automatic Transmission CO.

>
> George Torch
>
>


Thanks George,

We can surely use information like that.  I'll put the address in my
file.  My Jetfire & Grand Prix each have one of those "Slim Jims" & you
never know.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:48:50 -0400
Subject: Enough meaningless babble

At 02:39 11/29/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>>Having said that, I continue to maintain that "opposed" refers to a
pairs >>>of cylinders that operate at 180 degrees in relation to each
other.  If >>>you have some reference to the contrary... >>>Michael R.
Frederick >> >>I would concur with you...my father and brother are VW
freaks, and we have >>always referred to VW engines as "opposed".  My
father in law has an 88 >>Subaru with a liquid cooled opposed four
cylinder.  Never heard the term >>"180 degree V" before; it doesn't make
any sense. >>-- >>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme > >Sense or not, calling a V type engine opposed is
even less so.  I would say >that you, your father in law, your father
and brother could use a refresher >course in: >        1. Sense,
especially on how to make some >        2. Proper automotive nomeclature >
3. A good course in the description of a V type engine,
  >snip ad nausium<
>as the actual 'opposed' engine, but should never be brought up here, as
one >of the commonest of all engine designs has already over taxed too
many. > >And its too bad. > >The Wiz >

  I'll tell ya what. I may be wrong again,but it sounds to me like this
guy is putting down the whole bunch of us one more time. Listen,if you
guys have an argument about engines,bolts or whatever,please send your
mail to the interested parties,and not to the whole list. Most of the
folks on this list just want some good info about their cars and don't
want to wade through pages of meaningless garble from someone who is
obviously much more intelligent than the rest of us and has no problem
letting us know about it. Sorry to have to make everyone read this
Non-Olds post, but I think I may not be alone on this one.....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:49:06 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

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- ----------
From: 	Daniel Dale[SMTP:daleds@okra.millsaps.edu]
Sent: 	Friday, November 29, 1996 12:21 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

parentage. . .
Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/
Cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Combination, 1966 Pontiac
GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac
Seville, 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series
75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Crown, 1966 Chrysler Newport (fs),
1972 Ford LTD, 1976 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham, 1966 Pontiac LeMans

I snipped a lot out of this one!  However, I want to know how long it
took you to list all your cars! Also, what is a Cotner-Bevington 98
Combination?  Sounds like owning an Olivia Newton-John. dj...going on
very little sleep here.  Apologies if you don't like my sense of humor
(but I really would like to know what a Cotner-Bevington is)..

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From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:51:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchange Material (Long)

Greg Kalkhoff wrote:
>
> Lloyd Culp wrote:
> >
> > I have this interchange manual that has some interesting things for
the > > FAQ.  I'll start w/this material: > > SNIP > > Hey Bill, > >
How about a Toro deal like that? Pretty Please?????????? > > Sparky >"


Sparky,

This is from a Hollander Interchange Book (37th).  I'll try to send all
of the Olds info & interchanges.  It looks like it will take some typing
though.  Is it in FAQ type format or could you use another format?  I'm
trying to get the charts together on engine codes.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:17:59 -0400
Subject: RE: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

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From: 	Lloyd Culp[SMTP:bculp@hiwaay.net]
Sent: 	Friday, November 29, 1996 1:36 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: upsidedown engines? (was Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds
content**)

Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On the 215 they turn
>> the motor around backwards and use the flywheel as a prop hub.  So,
>> it is not only upside-down, it is backwards as well.  And with three
>> inch exhaust pipes sounds REALLY nice.  dj

> Dennis, Speaking of sound, my little 215 turbo Olds has one of the
best >deap rumbles at just off idle that a car could have.  For some
reason, >those small pipes have a sound just like a 394 w/a little
louder than stock >exhaust set.  It sounds wonderful idling through a
car show & really >draws attention.  It rivals 440 Mopars for good
sound. >Bill Culp  Decatur, Alabama

At one of the hot rod nationals in Minneapolis a twenty years ago or so,
a guy came by with a single seat T-bucket powered by a 215 Olds.  He
had 8 single exhaust pipes on it, which looked much like Sandersons,
but before Sandersons were made, with no muffler in sight.  It was not
loud, just really mellow and surprisingly deep.
Other cars I recall that sounded really unique were:
  Any Ford flathead
  Ford 272-312 Y-block
  Chrysler 383-440
  Olds 324-371
  Buick 322-401
Small block Chevy's, on the other hand, had a BRATTTT sound when
they were wound up.  Not pretty, just identifiable.
dj




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------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:48:32 -0400
Subject: [none]

> send your mail to the interested parties, and not to the whole list.
> Most of the folks on this list just want some good info about their
> cars and don't want to wade through pages of meaningless garble from
> someone who is obviously much more intelligent than the rest of us
> and has no problem letting us know about it.
> Sorry to have to make everyone read this Non-Olds post, but I think
> I may not be alone on this one.....
> Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible   bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

Unless there is an "e-mail address" after a name, like you have added,
I cannot send a reply to anything except "chebucto".  I agree that we
tend to get "out of line" but some of this stuff is of value, Olds
related or not.  The tough part is deciding what is "value".  Like
virtually everything else, the definition is the hardest part to agree
on.
As to intelligence, a lot of it can be be attributed to hanging around
in this world longer than others.  If you have had twice the number of
years to hear about things you have had twice the time to salt those
trivia things away in your memory bank.  Hey, I saw Elvis AND the
Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.  Does that make me smart?  No, but
one up on someone who wasn't there.
dj...it's never meaningless garble, just something you are not
interested in.

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:04:21 -0400
Subject: Toro identity please

While trudging through a foot of snow in my fav junkyard after
Turkey Day I tried to take some pics of the 62 Starfire convert
that I want to save from the crusher.
As I was slogging along I realized that I was in the wrong row.
Grumpily, as my shoes filled with water, I turned around and,
slowly realized that about 8 feet from the Starfire, and directly
in front of me was a Toronado!  Well, it was covered with 4 inches
of ice and 8 inches of snow, but it was a Toro.
My next move was to look it over, which was virtually impossible,
but I was able to glean this much information on it.  Both sides
are flat, from front to rear wheels as they have pushed cars into
it.  The front and rear glass is there, well, the snow covered
them but the rear glass is probably ok as it is tempered and would
shatter if cracked.  The front glass may be cracked, you can't
tell.  It is, however, holding up to the weight of a couple of
hundred pounds of snow/ice.  The rear tail lights are ok, the
rear bumper  needs re-chroming.  The grille is trashed, well,
cracked anyway and the front bumper chrome is peeling.
This is the Toro with the inboard headlights, behind the eggcrate
grille, and turn signals wrapping around the fender.  Anyone clue
me in as to the year!  I never cared for the style, preferring
the 66/67.
With 400 pounds of snow/ice on the hood, I had to go back to the
car and get my scraper.  Much chipping and one ruined scraper
later I lifted the gold/bronze hood and found a 100% complete
engine compartment, minus only the battery.  Air cleaner still
tightly wing-nutted down!!!
Now, what to do with it.  I am going to try to buy the car even
though I have nowhere to put it.  Would anyone want it?  The car
is in eastern South Dakota and not too difficult to get to.  I
would say 4 hours from Minneapolis.
Let me know as to the year if nothing else.
dj, aka "dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 04:38:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro identity please

Dennis W Johnson wrote:
>
> This is the Toro with the inboard headlights, behind the eggcrate
> grille, and turn signals wrapping around the fender.  Anyone clue
> me in as to the year!

Dennis,

Not eggcrate....honey comb.....You got a 68 there!

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:40:15 -0400
Subject: Interchange Material (2)(Long)

Engine Identifiction

Explanation;  Identification is by letter prefix and letter suffix to
the 8 cy. engine unit number or to the 6 cyl engine date code.

Examples:  X00105L  unit number
           UA       code
	   8001001  unit number
           Fo712VE  date code

These numbers are located as follows:
       F85 - 6 cyl, V6-225 ~ Right cyl block deck face.
                    6-250  ~ Right side of block to rear of distributor.
	     8 cyl, '61-'67 ~ On pad at front of right cyl head.
                    '68 & up ~ On oil filler tube.
       Full Size cars ~ Includes Toronado
            1959-1963 ~ Top of center exhaust port of left cyl head.
            1964-1965 ~ 8-330 & 425 - On pad at front of right cyl
head.                         8-394 ('64) - Top of center exhaust port
of left
                                      cyl head.
            1966-1967 ~ On pad at front of right cyl head.
            1968 & up ~ On oil filler tube.

1967-1966             OLDSMOBILE (EXCEPT F85) & TORONADO

YEAR   CODE LETTERS  ENGINE  CARB   COMP    CU.IN.  MODEL
      Prefix suffix  COLOR
1957  A                      4BC    9.5     8-371
      A                      3-2BC  10.0    8-371
1958  B                      2BC    10.0    8-371
      B                      4BC    10.0    8-371
      B                      3-2BC  10.0    8-371
1959  C           Gold                      8-371   D88
      D           Green                     8-394   S88,98
1960  C           Gold              8.75-1  8-371   D88
      C      H    Gold              9.75-1  8-371   D88
      D           Green                     8-394   S88,98
1961  F           Green      2BC    8.75-1  8-394   D88
                                     low
      G           Red        4BC    10.0-1  8-394   D88 (opt)
                                                    S88, 98
      G           Red        4BC    10.25-1 8-394   Starfire
1962  F           Red        2BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88
      F      L    Green      2BC    8.75-1  8-394   D88
      G           Red        4BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88, S88, 98
      G      S    Red        4BC    10.50-1 8-394   Starfire
1963  H           Red        2BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88
      h      L    Green      2BC    8.75-1  8-394   D88
      J           Red        4BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88, S88, 98
      J      S    Red        4BC    10.50-1 8-394   Starfire, 98 Spt Cpe
1964  T      G    Gold       4BC    10.25-1 8-330   J88
      T      K    Gold       2BC    10.25-1 8-330   J88
      H           Red        2BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88
      H      L    Green      2BC    8.75-1  8-394   D88
      J           Red        4BC    10.25-1 8-394   D88, S88, 98
      J      S    Red        4BC    10.50-1 8-394   Jetstar I, Starfire,
                                                    98 Spt Cpe
1965  X           Gold       2BC    10.25-1 8-330   J88
- -66   X      G    Gold       4BC    10.25-1 8-330   J88
      X      L    Gold       2BC    9.0-1   8-330   J88
      M           Red        2BC    10.25-1 8-425   Dyn 88, Delta 88
      M      L    Red        2BC    9.0-1   8-425   Dyn 88, Delta 88
      N           Red        4BC    10.25-1 8-425   Starfire & 98 StdCom
      N      S    Red        4BC    10.5-1  8-425   Starfire HiCom, Jet-
                                                    Star I ('65)
      N      T    Blue       4BC    10.5-1  8-425   Toronado

1967  X      E    Gold       2BC    9.0     8-330   Del 88 (250 HP)
      X           Gold       2BC    10.25   8-330   Del 88 (260 HP)
      X      G    Gold       4BC    10.25   8-330   Del 88 (320 HP)
      P      L    Red        2BC    9.0     8-425   Delta 88, Del 88
                                                                (300 HP)
      P           Red        2BC    10.25   8-425   Delta 88, Del 88
                                                                (310 HP)
      R           Red        4BC    10.25   8-425   Delta 88, Del 88, 98
                                                                (365 HP)
      R      S    Red        4BC    10.5    8-425   Delta 88, Del 88, 98
                                                                (375 HP)
      R      T    Blue       4BC    10.5    8-425   Toronado (385 HP)

1968  QI          Gold       2BC    9.0     8-350   Del 88 StdTrans
                                                                (290 HP)
      QN, QP      Gold       4BC    10.25   8-350   Del 88 AT (310 HP)
      UA, UB      Red        2BC    10.25   8-455   Delta 88, Del 88 AT
                                                                (320 HP)
      UC, UD      Red        2BC    9.0     8-455   Delta 88, Del 88 AT
                                                                (310 HP)
      UJ          Red        2BC    9.0     8-455   Delta 88, Del 88 Std
                                                          Trans (310 HP)
      UN, UO      Red        4BC    10.25   8-455   Delta 88, Del 88, 98
                                                                (365 HP)
      US, UT      Blue       4BC    10.25   8-455   Toronado (375 HP)
      UV, UW      Blue       4BC    10.25   8-455   Toronado W/Forced In

1969  TB*                    2BC     9.0    8-350   Delta 88
W/AT
 (250 HP)
      TC*                    2BC     9.0    8-350   Delta 88 W/AT
                                                                (250 HP)
      TD                     2BC     9.0    8-350   Delta 88 W/AT
                                                                (250 HP)
      TL                     2BC     9.0    8-350   Delta 88 W/StdTrns
                                                                (250 HP)
      UC                     2BC     9.0    8-455   All Delta W/AT
                                                                (310 HP)
      UD*                    2BC     9.0    8-455   All Delta W/AT
                                                                (310
HP)       UJ                     2BC     9.0    8-455   All Delta
W/StdTrns
                                                                (310 HP)
      UL                     4BC     10.25  8-455   All Delta W/AT
      UN                     4BC     10.25  8-455   All Delta & 98 W/AT
      UO*                    4BC     10.25  8-455   All Delta & 98
W/AT
1970-1971 Information not available

TORONADO

1969  US                     4BC     10.25  8-455
      UT*                    4BC     10.25  8-455
      UV*                    4BC     10.25  8-455
      UW                     4BC     10.25  8-455   W/Forced Ind

*W/Air-Conditioning

Olds F85 to follow

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 05:04:59 -0400
Subject: What year is it?

All,

Seems to be a bit of "what year car is this" going around on both lists.

Well, its always obtainable through decoding the vin (duh).  (;

However, for those of us that can't always do it because they don't know
how to, or it is obscured, there is another way to quickly find out.

Not sure about newer cars, but for the most part, you can look at the
tail light and turn signal lenses. You should find a SAE or GUIDE
embossed somewhere on it. GENERALLY speaking, you will find two numbers
after it (ie 66). 10 to 1 thats the year of the car.

This works best for cars (Olds's and all GM's) that had lense changes
from year to year. If a particular model used the same lenses for a
number of model years in a row, this may not be as reliable. However,
you can still get a ballpark idea if you are not familiar with the car.

Sparky

PS. This can be especially helpful in bone yards when the car is
inaccessible, except for front and rear bumpers where the lenses are
located.

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 20:35:05 -0400
Subject: Grade 8 is great

I have been told that the only grade 8 nut is a Stover nut, the ones
with the oblong openings that you typically find on control arm bolts.
Some of the nuts I have bought have 6 little slits cut into the side of
the nut, on the face that would contact the washer or the bolt head.
Does this mean these nuts are grade 8?  Any fastener experts out there?

	Are you sure that's not slits for a cotter pin?

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible
.^. lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________
/9|8\ (810) 825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |
\}|{/ Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=
v

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 05:09:38 -0400
Subject: RE: Toro identity please

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>Dennis W Johnson wrote: This is the Toro with the inboard
>headlights, behind the eggcrate grille, and turn signals wrapping
>around the fender.  Anyone clue me in as to the year!

Dennis, Not eggcrate....honey comb.....You got a 68 there!
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

Yes, you are correct, honeycomb is more accurate.  Don't the head
lights flip with the grille?  I forgot to look and see.  Too interested
in the motor.  Did it sound like it had any intrinsic value to you?
dj



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From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:15:07 -0400
Subject: Re: OCA

I just received my December issue of JWO this week. The address is:

Olds Club of America
PO Box 80318
Lansing, Mich.
48908-0318

As for Vista Cruisers, there's one in there that sounds interesting:
1970 big block VC, PS, disc brakes, 12-bolt rear, 455-4bbl, TH400 trans,
 class 3 frame hitch, power seat & locks, tilt, cruise, SS1 wheels &
new white letter tires, 97,000 miles. Bad trans? Very restorable body.
$1,500. Bob Cline, 708-562-7318, Illinois

If it's as advertised this one is worth more than $1500 in parts alone.

There's also this listed in the "Leads" section:
>From Steve DeNovi: 1970 Cutlass station wagon, 350 Rocket, A/C, good
body, runs good, $2500 OBO. Marie Manery, 15620 N. 25th Ave., #F-211,
Phoenix, Az. 85023. 602-942-6152

Vistas are neat cars, would love to have one myself someday. Good luck!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:24:13 -0400
Subject: Exhaust Sounds

On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Dennis Johnson wrote:
> Other cars I recall that sounded really unique were:
>   Any Ford flathead
>   Ford 272-312 Y-block
>   Chrysler 383-440
>   Olds 324-371
>   Buick 322-401

Interesting... my Buick with the little 300-V8 has the nicest, most
mellow exhaust note. Not real loud and with just generic Speedy Muffler
King stuff on it, but when you get your foot into it, you hear the
coolest, rumbly sound... not at all like the Olds. Other people have
told me that they have also been unable to get a similar sound out of
Olds Rocket engines. My Olds has a sound that's OK but pales in
comparison to the Buick. I suspect it may have something to do with
exhaust manifold design. The Buick engine has a neat-looking set of cast
manifolds that look just like headers, with fairly long, individual cast
tubes from each cylinder. Perhaps if the Olds had headers installed it
would sound similar. Wish I could duplicate that sound!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Wolski <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:50:15 -0400
Subject: Olds Parts For Sale

FYI,

Leftovers from my "Never Quite Made it Back into Drag
Racing Sale" can be found at:

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/mjwparts
- --

                                   Regards,

                                 Michael J. Wolski

			        wolskmj@texaco.com
			      wolskmj@cyberspace.org

        Email to my pager --->  1974511@skymail.com

           +--- The older I get, the better I was ---+

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #387
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