To:	Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US
cc:	 
From:	gbbea000 @ mail.cycor.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/24/96 06:11:20 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #340


oldsmobile-digest        Wednesday, 23 October 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 340


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:20:09 -0300
Subject: Logos, Minivans, etc.

On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> our teeth and live with it for the forseeable future, because a
company > that just spent eight-bazillion corporate image dollars on a
new logo, > signs, stationery and the works is not going to say "Ooops!"
and throw > it out right away.

Don't be so sure. Remember the NBC logo that replaced the peacock back
around 1980? A blocky, abstract letter "N" all in red, didn't look like
much but they spent a fortune on it. A fwew weeks later it turned out
that the same logo was in use by Nebraska Public Television. NBC had to
get a different logo. So can Olds... there was a nice one on the Admion
building in Lansing up to a few months back...

> Necessary evil? Well... my wife wants a minivan. If Olds offers one,
> it might prevent me from shopping elsewhere. And minivans aren't niche
> products; they're big business. So if Olds wants an income in that
> market, they'll want a minivan of Olds flavor. Whether they have one
> like that right now is a matter of opinion.

Silhouette.... "the Cadillac of minivans" (Get Shorty, 1994). As a
minivan hater, mu condolences, Andy... ;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Paul Martin <paul@dtm.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:41:41 -0300
Subject: FI Open vs. Closed Loop

>From wimsey.com!chebucto.ns.ca!oldsmobile-owner Mon Oct 21 21:49:34
1996 X-Sender: cif@fairisaac.com Message-Id:
<96Oct21.204726pdt.1456@gateway.FairIsaac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date:   Tue, 22 Oct 1996
00:55:46 -0300 To: Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca> From:
Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com> Subject: FI Open vs. Closed Loop
Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Reply-To:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca



I think you all know a lot more about this than me, but we still have a
question before the group:

has anyone tried, successfully or un- to retrofit FI on their SB or BB
olds? what were the details and result?

So far looks like this is a common pipe dream of interest, but
everybody's been scared off (like me) by complexity and price.

Comments?
cf


I have seen one small block Olds wquipped with an Edelbrock FI
sysytem,the owneer seemed to be quite happy with it.
The 1976-79 Cadillac Seville used the 350 Olds engine and Fuel
Injection. This was not a performance setup though and I am not
sure how it would work.

Paul Martin

------------------------------

From: Gerald Gibson <gibson@webgate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:25:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Aftermarket Body Parts for Shelby's

sbento@mecn.mass.edu wrote:
>
> I have a friend who is building a '68 Dodge Super Bee and he has a
"Mopar > Performance" catalog which has tons of parts for Hemi's all the
way down > to the 2.2's I would try them for parts, If they don't sell
them they > could probably point you in the right direction. > > Steve >
71 Cutlass S 455 > 93 Mustang LX 5.0

     Steve,

     I have the catalog but they don't and my Chrysler dealer has
repeatedly told me that my car isn't woth putting any money into.  I
cringe everytime I have to deal with them.  Besides, I'm sure they don't
know anywhere anyway.  Thanks for the help though.

                Gerald Gibson
                gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:25:31 -0300
Subject: Good Tech Needed in Orlando

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but...

I have a 1987 Buick Somerset (Cutlass Calais clone) that is need of
repair.  Sometimes, but not always, the "service engine soon" light
will come on when I start it.  Speedometer and odometer both do not
register while the engine light is on (digital dash), and the motor
"races" even though there is a loss of power and acceleration.  The
radiator fan also goes on while the engine light is illuminated.
Carbon "soot" accumulates in the tailpipe.  It's as if the choke is
staying on, and the engine is running much too rich as a result.
Sometimes the light will go off and the car will act normally within
minutes; other times it remains on. The outside temperature seems to
have an effect...if sitting in the sun, light goes off almost
immediately.  If it's at night, light remains on.  The digital
display will occasionally "flicker", as will the engine light if
going over a bump in the road.  My guess is that it's an electrical
problem.

Recently, the car has also began hesitating or "hiccuping" on
acceleration when the engine is warm.  Doesn't do it when it's cold,
but begins as soon as it warms up.  When I shut it off the last time,
idle was way down and the engine "died" when I turned the steering
wheel.  You could also hear the power steering "groan" when the wheel
was turned.  Electrical problem?

Help!  The car only has 97,700 miles on a 2.5L ("4-Tech") engine, and
is in good shape.  I'd like to get it fixed and keep it if I can.
Any ideas?  Better yet, can anyone reccomend a competent technician
here in the Orlando area that I might contact?  I just moved down
here a few months ago, and am leery of taking it to just any shop.

Thanks,

Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:49:24 -0300
Subject: RE: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

>OR..... the 700R4, I know not simple, but more simple than the 6
speed>option? >

I read about the 4L80E transmission.  Its basically a TH400 with a .75
overdrive.  It's in a chevy magazine this month.  This transmission will
hold up better than a 700 R4.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:55:15 -0300
Subject: RE: New models to ponnder / Olds Target Market

>As the show progressed, they displayed the new Ch*vy Tahoe police
>truck, and then.....  a goofy green new Monte appeared with smoke
>billowing from the REAR tires!  Seems the Chevy guys have been taking
>flak about introducing a FWD Monte, and the Chevy version of SVT, the
>same ones who built the Impala SS, decided to give it a try.  The car
>was powered by a slightly built up LT1 and looked virtually the same
>as the FWD one, except for the wide tires on the back.

This car first appeared in February in a hot rodding magazine.

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:58:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

Phil:

If I were you I would buy the adapter plate and run the 700 R4.
Remember, the 700 R4 is made only with the Chev bolt pattern on the bell
housing. Many aftermarket companies produce the plate needed to bolt the
Chev trans to BOP blocks.

Regarding the 6-speed.....Is your engine's crank shaft drilled out for a
pilot bearing?  If it is a '68 455 I bet it isn't.  Plan on tearing down
the bottom end of the engine and bringing your crank in for a machine
job! Olds only drilled manual trans equipped engines for pilot bearings.
In 1975,  Olds began machining all engines for pilot bearings.  If you
can find a 1975 or '76 455 crank it will wotk on a manual trans without
drilling for a bearing,  but keep in mind that these cranks are not
nodular iron like the older models and are somewhat weaker.

Good luck on your project!

Tony

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:59:50 -0300
Subject: Re: GN

At 01:35 AM 10/22/96 -0300, Robert J. Barry wrote:
>At 12:04 PM 10/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>  Does anyone know the curb weight for the Buick Grand National?
>
>About the same as any other 2-door G-body; around 3500lbs as you'd find
them >on the street (+/- a few hundred pounds, depending on how much gas
is in the >tank and whether the driver is sticking to his diet...) >
>So, no, extremely light weight is not a factor; while the 245hp GN had
high >13/low 14 sec. 1/4mi. potential, the Monte SS and the H/O/442's,
with >identical weight but with only a rated 180hp, were running 16.3's
(though >occasional road test broke into the 15's, but not by much).

Even better than that, Car & Driver got the 1989 Turbo Trans Am to do a
13.1 second run totally stock. These cars had the 3.8L Turbo Buick
engine but ran different heads and it had a few turbo mods. Buick rated
this car at 245 hp, but dyno tests done by the magazine rated it at
301hp stock. What a sleeper! - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay
Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration
graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it
in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30....
see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:08:01 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

>end is great, and don't want to change it. My friend has a 96 Camaro SS
(#29 >of 3000 "and" you want to know who won the race?? He learned that
you just >can't replace cubic inches!! "but it was closer than I'd like
to admit!") and > That sounds reasonable. The Camaro SS is more of a
novelty item than an all out performance machine. For much less money
you can but a 96 Z/28, put an A-trim Vortech on it and it will blow the
doors off the SS all day. But the nice thing about the SS is that they
are limited and will command big money in the future.

As fot the tranny I would go with the 700R4 unless you can find a ZF six
speed somewhere. The 700R4 swap should not be hard at all, just time
consuming. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate
student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the
December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it
at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:08:58 -0300
Subject: Re:Help please

Hi,
     Has anyone deciphered my engine numbers?  Do any of these numbers
indicate a W30.  I need to know for insurance purposes.

Chris

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:49:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts needed to complete restoration('72 Cutlass?)

Hi,
  There's a '72 Cutlass for parts (good body panels too), and 3
minutes away from my house.  If anybody is interested, let me
know!!


>Date:		Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:53:49 -0300
>From:	John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject:	Parts needed to complete restoration
>
>Hi all!
>
>We need a'71 Cutlass stock 1 Wheel with trim ring AND also need to
find
>for a '71 Cutlass the "2 front pieces on the front fenders that
mount
>behind the eyebrow moulding to the radiator support". Sorry for
the
>vague description.(What are these called?)
>
>Thanks.....j&r
>

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:26:49 -0300
Subject: RE: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

>>OR..... the 700R4, I know not simple, but more simple than the 6
speed>option? >> > >I read about the 4L80E transmission.  Its basically
a TH400 with a .75 >overdrive.  It's in a chevy magazine this month.
This transmission will hold >up better than a 700 R4. > >Roger Borlase
>'72 Cutlass Cruiser

Hot Rod magazine has an article on beefing the 4L80E this month.  If you
hurry, you might still find the issue on the newstand.  It tells what is
involved in swapping in the trans.  The article has a little sidebar
about someone who installed one in a Buick GN so maybe the trans bolts
up to a BOP block with little trouble.  It doesn't specify in the
article whether the trans has a BOP bolt pattern as well. (what the hell
were they thinking when they wrote it?)  It looks like the worst problem
with the trans was getting the computer controls to interface but that's
do-able now so it can be retrofitted to vintage muscle cars.  The
transmission shares %75 of it's internal parts with a TH400.

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:38:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts needed to complete restoration('72 Cutlass?)

>Hi,
>  There's a '72 Cutlass for parts (good body panels too), and 3
>minutes away from my house.  If anybody is interested, let me
>know!!

I'm interested in a grill with thick horizontal slits, front bumper,
turn signal lense, wheel well trim and maybe a hood for my '72 Cutlass
Cruiser.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:00:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Good Tech Needed in Orlando

>Sometimes the light will go off and the car will act normally within
>minutes; other times it remains on. The outside temperature seems to
>have an effect...if sitting in the sun, light goes off almost
>immediately.  If it's at night, light remains on.  The digital
>display will occasionally "flicker", as will the engine light if
>going over a bump in the road.  My guess is that it's an electrical
>problem.

Agreed. I'd check electrical connections to the dash (e.g. where the
harness plugs into the back) and all ground connections. You can never
have too many of those. Under the hood, I'd look for much the same
thing, especially ground straps linking engine to frame and frame to
battery. Something is indeed loose.

Another reason for grounds being suspect is your mention that the light
remains on after dark. If I recall right, your car has a light sensor
on the dash to blink a reminder at the driver to turn his lights on
at dusk, if not simply turn them on itself (since the self-illuminated
dash is of course nicely visible by itself and your more dimwitted
drivers will forget to put exterior lights on). The fact that your
electrical problems seem to be affected by daylight makes me wonder
whether the sensor circuit, whose resistance goes down in the darkness,
is being used as a ground.

And finally, if the Check Engine light is on, see if any codes have been
stored. You might find something related to a ground problem, such as
a shorted/open circuit error. Good luck; you may need it...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:28:59 -0300
Subject: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported

A couple of questions for the techies here:

1) My brother came across a set of rocker arms (non-Olds, don't ask)
that say on the box that they are "sintered". He asked me what that
meant. I had heard of sintered brake pads and somehow assumed that they
were metal fibers that were somehow bonded together. But I had never
heard the term used in other applications. Can someone shed some light
on what that term actually means and how the process is done?

2) I've gotten confused here with the recent discussion on ported,
manifold, and venturi vacuum. I thought I knew what manifold (below the
throttle plate) and venturi (above the plate) was, but now I'm not sure,
 and I have no clue what port or ported vacuum means. Anyone care to
enlighten me?

Thanks in advance!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:32:22 -0300
Subject: To Olds: build 442, go road racing

It occured to me just now that there is now an Oldsmobile sized hole in
the world of road racing.  Chevrolet annonced that they are getting out
of the SCCA Trans-Am series.  This is the series that usually tags along
with the Indycars, consisting of NASCAR style Mustangs and Camaros with
a few others thrown in.  I can't hardly believe this...the Camaros had
great success in that underated series.  They, like another near and
dear division, failed to capitolize on the marketing oppurtunities of
racing.

Who better to fill those shoes than Oldsmobile...already a force in SCCA
racing with the successful Aurora road racer.  A new 442 based on the
F-body would be perfect.  Race teams would have little trouble with the
transition, most mechanicals would be the same...they could even use the
same chassis and just use the new sheetmetal.  Chevrolet can have
Nascar, Pontiac can have NHRA, we'll take SCCA.  Combine the unvieling
of the new 442 with it's introduction into the Trans-Am series and Olds
has a outstanding marketing/advertising oppurtunity.

Earth to Oldsmobile...are you listening?





 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:40:05 -0300
Subject: out of balance?

Hi all.

I had 4 new tires put on my wagon during the summer, 2 in July, 2 in
August. I now have a vibration that starts around 5 mph and gets worse
as I go faster. I think that the univesral joint is having problems.
Does anybody else think this?  Could the tires be a cause?  They were
mounted and balanced although I got one set from NTW.

Thanks,

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html

p.s.
I called a boneyard about ralley wheels, $50 for a set of 5.  Now I can
have cool wheels like Art (or whoever owns that white wagon in the
JWO). :-)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:42:06 -0300
Subject: Re: To Olds: build 442, go road racing

> _____
>|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
>|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
>| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
>|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

...which reminds me: that new Olds logo will look _horrible_
as ASCII art... Anyone care to take a stab at it?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:38:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported

>1) My brother came across a set of rocker arms (non-Olds, don't ask)
that >say on the box that they are "sintered". He asked me what that
meant. I >had heard of sintered brake pads and somehow assumed that
they were metal >fibers that were somehow bonded together.

Sintering is the bonding together of metallic particles without melting
them into a solid lump; i.e. it forms one solid piece without melting
the powdered material used. I have no idea why rocker arms would be
sintered... maybe this refers to the bearing surfaces only?

>2) I've gotten confused here with the recent discussion on ported,
>manifold, and venturi vacuum. I thought I knew what manifold (below the
 >throttle plate) and venturi (above the plate) was, but now I'm not
sure, >and I have no clue what port or ported vacuum means. Anyone care
to >enlighten me?

In the case of the "ported" EGR valve as installed on my '82 Cutlass
with Buick-built V6, the port was a small opening in the diaphragm
which allowed air to bleed into the vacuum line at a known rate. Thus
the only way to operate the valve was to apply a steady vacuum; as soon
as the vacuum was switched off (via an electric solenoid on the right
rocker cover controlled by the ECM), the port opening in the EGR valve
would allow air in to close the valve. (i.e. If you want to turn "off"
a vacuum line, you have to allow air into it somehow.) The "gotcha"
with this design is that you can't bench-test a ported EGR valve with a
hand vacuum pump because it's designed to "leak" even in normal
operation, something I learned the hard way after almost buying an
unnecessary replacement valve.

A non-ported EGR valve installed on this car would require a separate
opening in the solenoid valve to allow air into the line when the
solenoid switched off.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:05:00 -0300
Subject: '68 or '69 Air cleaner needed

Would anyone know where I could find '68 or '69 factory air cleaner for
a 4-barrel?  I am converting my '69 350-2bbl to a 4bbl and would like
to keep it as factory looking as possible.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:53:36 -0300
Subject: Re: out of balance?

>I now have a vibration that starts around 5 mph and gets worse as I go
faster. >I think that the universal joint is having problems.  Does
anybody else think >this?  Could the tires be a cause?

Certainly. Try swapping them front-for-back and see if things change.
Also try turning each one separately by hand, or have an assistant
slowly roll the car along as you check the treads, and look for bulges,
tread squirms, etc. I've had new ones develop shifted belts pretty
quick.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jeff VErkleeren <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 18:07:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

go with the six speed regaurdless of what it takes...that would be a one
of a kind!!!

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 18:17:45 -0300
Subject: RE: out of balance?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC03C.F1D290A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would think you could throw the car on a lift and see if the =
universals are sloppy or not. I don't know anyone who has had good luck
= with NTW house tires. Were they house brand as opposed to name brand?
I = also had a similar problem which ended up being my draft shaft =
alignment. Weak rear springs could also be a problem.

You didn't say if it was a front or rear vibration? Steering wheel or =
seat? Could also be a bent rim. Sorry for so many possibilities, but =
everything but the rear springs is cheap money to fix.

- ----------
From: 	Andrew C. Green[SMTP:acg@dlogics.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, October 22, 1996 3:53 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: out of balance?

>I now have a vibration that starts around 5 mph and gets worse as I go
= faster. >I think that the universal joint is having problems.  Does
anybody else = think=20 >this?  Could the tires be a cause?

Certainly. Try swapping them front-for-back and see if things change.
Also try turning each one separately by hand, or have an assistant
slowly roll the car along as you check the treads, and look for bulges,
tread squirms, etc. I've had new ones develop shifted belts pretty =
quick.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473





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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC03C.F1D290A0--

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 19:20:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported


1) My brother came across a set of rocker arms (non-Olds, don't ask)
that say on the box that they are "sintered".... Can someone shed some
light on what that term actually means and how the process is done?

     Powdered metal is formed under heat and pressure into the shape of
the
     final part.  This process forms very homogeneous parts with good
     materials properties in a near-net shape.

2) I've gotten confused here with the recent discussion on ported,
manifold, and venturi vacuum. I thought I knew what manifold (below the
throttle plate) and venturi (above the plate) was, but now I'm not sure,
 and I have no clue what port or ported vacuum means. Anyone care to
enlighten me?

     Ported vacuum typically is drawn from a port just above the
throttle
     plate in the carb.  The idea is that with the throttle closed,
there
     is no signal on this port, but with a small amount of throttle
     movement, the port gets a manifold vacuum signal.  I believe that
     different applications use ports at different locations above the
     throttle plate to achieve the desired result (ie, vacuum signal
     profile to whatever peripheral is being actuated).

Thanks in advance!

     You're quite welcome!

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada




------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 19:32:41 -0300
Subject: RE: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported

> My brother came across a set of rocker arms (non-Olds, don't ask) that
 > say on the box that they are "sintered". He asked me what that
meant. I > had heard of sintered brake pads and somehow assumed that
they were metal > fibers that were somehow bonded together. But I had
never heard the term > used in other applications. Can someone shed
some light on what that term > actually means and how the process is
done?

Sintered (powdered metallurgy) is another method for forming metal
parts. The other methods are casting, forging, machining, etc. It's a
fairly cheap method that gives quite high precision. It's relatively
new for use in highly stressed engine parts, and the technology itself
probably didn't come into big use more generally until the 1960's, I
would guess.

The basic method involves taking a metal powder mixed with a binder,
and stamping parts out of this powder in a powerful press. The parts
are then run through an oven, where the surface of the metal particles
melt and the particles attach to each other. The binder burns off.

Depending on the use and powder particle size, the part may be quite
porous. The early uses of these parts were for things like bearings,
where the porous metal was impregnated with lubricant, or for fuel
filters and such (rather large pores).

The parts may also be repressed after sintering in the oven, I
believe. This gives a fairly dense, strong part.

There are several engines currently in production that use powdered
metal connecting rods, including the Chrysler 2.0/2.4L fours and the
Ford DOHC V8. Here is a description of the rods in the Chrysler 2.0L
DOHC four:

  CONNECTING RODS Connecting rods and rod caps are  initially formed as
  one-piece powdered metal forgings. Molding them from  powder before
  forging assures excellent dimensional and weight control  with minimum
  machining. Powdered metal rods are lighter than  conventional
  forgings, especially at the piston end, resulting in low
  reciprocating weight and smooth high rpm operation. Weight is lower
  because the rods are made without the excess material that is
  partially  machined away as part of the normal balancing process on
  conventional  rods. The cap is separated from the rod by a unique
  process*. The uneven  surface that results from the breaking process
  provides perfect rod to  cap alignment at assembly. Rod cap retention
  screws thread directly into  the connecting rod for simplicity and
  light weight.

*I believe the "unique process" is scoring the break line with a laser
beam, and then breaking the cap off. I believe Chrysler has (or
applied for) a patent for this method.

We'll probably be seeing more and more of this metal forming technique
in the future.

- - Paul Elosge

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 18:54:51 -0300
Subject: RE: out of balance?

>universals are sloppy or not. I don't know anyone who has had good luck
= >with NTW house tires. Were they house brand as opposed to name brand?
I =

Yes, they were house tires.  "Response" I think.  The rears are
Firestone 215/75 r 14.  Fronts are same size.  The whole car shakes at
highway speads. It feals like its coming from the rear.  The steering
wheel shakes too.

I also have the receipt for the NTW place, so I could replace the fronts
if they are in fact the problem.

Roger

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:05:00 -0300
Subject: [none]

>From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:25:25 -0300
>Subject: Frame swap on a 67 442

>  I'm in the process of swapping the frame on my 67' 442.
>Does anyonw have any tips on getting the body mount bolts out?
>2 came out fine, 2 broke, and 2 have rounded bolt heads, and 2 are
spinning >up in the body.

>Ken
>rottin@coil.com

Ken,
Have you considered a cutting torch?  Cut off the bolt heads.  Prepare
for smoke/fire from the soon-to-be-melted body mounts.  Put out the
fires and replace the body mounts with new ones.  I must admit that
I've never done the body-off thing.  I assume that the bolts that you
cannot get off are the two with the rounded heads and the two that are
spinning up in the body.  As I recall, the bolts go upward, with the
heads facing the ground.  There should be room through the access holes
in the frame to get the flame on the bolt heads.  Don't be afraid to be
aggressive with cutting up the old frame for improved access  if you
are using another frame for the finished car.  I have yet to run into a
frozen bolt that can't be cut with torches.  Watch out for fuel lines
(use a heat shield around these), and remember that brake fluid will
burn as well.

Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:51:59 -0300
Subject: RE: Bench Racing

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC05B.CAB902A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Maybe this is a good time to ask again for any input that any of you may
= have on building a turbo (anything) as I am slowly putting one
together = this winter for a customer.

- ----------
From: 	Greg Pruett[SMTP:grpruett@vt.edu]
Sent: 	Monday, October 21, 1996 10:36 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Bench Racing

>Greg Pruett wrote:
>>=20
>>               Everyone talking about turbos, superchargers, and EFI =
got me
>> thinking. <snip>.  All I need now is about 10 grand and a
>> few years worth of free weekends.
>>=20
>>               Just daydreaming on the list.
>>               Greg Pruett
>>               `72 Vista-Cruiser
>
>



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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC05B.CAB902A0--

------------------------------

From: Jimmy Joseph <jimmy@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:58:22 -0300
Subject: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

Hi everyone. I have a few questions about Oldsmobiles. First of all, is
the BB Olds lighter than the BB Chevy? And second, what is the average
gas mileage for a '70 455 Cutlass?

------------------------------

From: boonedoc@netaxs.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:29:24 -0300
Subject: New paint & body work for a '71 442

So I am going to SoCal. Planned to have my perfectionist hobbyist friend
David, here in PA, do new paint and a little bit of body work on my '71
442 convertible. Then chromed bumpers and new top would make me all one
with the world. And guess what: he's so piled up with work (because he's
good) that he can't take me any time soon. Now I'll have to ship the car
"undone" and hope that I can find someone who cares enough about
Oldsmobiles  that they'll do a proper job (not exquisite show, just very
nice), without charging me an arm and a leg.

Can anyone out there recommend a painter and body worker in Ventura
County or thereabouts who fits this very difficult profile. Appreciate
any suggestions.

Stan "boonedoc"

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:28:26 -0300
Subject: Re: The Painful Truth...(long)

In a message dated 96-10-22 11:00:57 EDT, you write:

>  Personally I think the angled stroke through the oval is
>  supposed to represent a two-lane road.

Hey, did you read in Setting the Pace that the most recent Rocket emblem
was referred to as the "Chicken Track"?  Its true if you think about it.
What do you think they'll nickname the new logo?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:30:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Help please

In a message dated 96-10-22 10:31:16 EDT, you write:

> > 10C means the body was built the third week (C) of October (10),
probably ' > 67 > >  67? or 68?  I'm confused.

'67.  '68s were already in the showroom in October of '67, as they start
producing them in August usually.  By October of '68, '69s would have
been in showrooms.  Your's is an early production '68

>  BTW  How can you tell if the car is a W30?

You're out of my territory now.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:43:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

The Olds has to be lighter because it is not really a big block in
reality. A Chevy 454 next to an Olds 455 looks bigger

At 09:58 PM 10/22/96 -0300, Jimmy Joseph wrote:
>Hi everyone. I have a few questions about Oldsmobiles. First of all, is
the >BB Olds lighter than the BB Chevy? And second, what is the average
gas >mileage for a '70 455 Cutlass? > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports
Administration graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro
Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80
Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:53:21 -0300
Subject: Olds 215

>>Also, to whoever is in charge of the Olds FAQ.  As the owner of an '80
 >>Rover 3500 with the [former Olds] 215 V8, I would be happy to
provide some >>more info on its history if I can. > >That would be the
Buick 215.  It is an alluminum engine.

Oldsmobile also made an aluminum 215 (I thought _ONLY_ Olds made one).
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:03:25 -0300
Subject: Burnin' oil

My '70 442 with a 455 and AT burns oil really bad.  The car is in tune
and has been rebuilt about 60,000 miles ago.  I put in a quart about
every two tanks of gas.
	Is there any way to slow the burning oil process until I can
afford a rebuild?  I run 10w 30 oil, should I run heavier oil?  Any
additives I could use?
Thanks
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:00:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

Jimmy Joseph wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I have a few questions about Oldsmobiles. First of all,
is the > BB Olds lighter than the BB Chevy? And second, what is the
average gas > mileage for a '70 455 Cutlass?

I couldn't tell you the weight of the Big Blocks, but my 70 442 with a
455 gets, well... 6mpg town, 11 freeway.  But it is dying for a rebuild
and burns oil.
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:57:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

the rest pretty much stock (READ, I live in
>Calif.) 6 row radiator with dual electric fans (Black Magic M-150's)
>Phil De Simone

Where did you get a six row radiator?  I need one soon, and I can only
find a two, three, or four row.  Do you remember the approximate cost of
it?  The cheapest I can get a four row (locally) is a little more than
$200.00. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:01:03 -0300
Subject: Re: HI PERFORMANCE AIR SHOCKS

>My advice (and I know a few will back me, actually I'm backing them) is
to >go with air bags.  I'm running them with SensaTracs on the GS, and
it is >just amazing.  One $60 pair of balloons gave me posi.

How much pressure (psi) do you put in your bags?
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:58:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Mail order Tools

At 01:32 PM 10/22/96 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Hey guys, I'm trying to find a large bench vise to help with my pending
front end
>rebuild.  Problem is that the local stores don't seem to have ones
large enough, like around >100 lbs and +8 in. openings.  Any
suggestions for good mail order tool places???   Sears is >good but
their shipping charge is ridiculous...... > >Todd Morris >71 442 > >
Try Harbour Freight Tools - Excellent prices and quality.

1-800-423-2567  (24hrs a day, seven days a week)

They'll also send you catalogs (about one a month) for a year or two.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:03:31 -0300
Subject: RE: New models to ponnder / Olds Target Market

>This car first appeared in February in a hot rodding magazine.

It was also in August '96 Motor Trend.  FWIW.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:08:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Burnin' oil

>	Is there any way to slow the burning oil process until I can
>afford a rebuild?  I run 10w 30 oil, should I run heavier oil?  Any
>additives I could use?

I believe that 20w50 is widely recommended for Olds V8's.  It's what I
use, and I've got 190,000 miles on my engine without a rebuild, and no
smoke. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Gerald Gibson <gibson@webgate.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:03:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Burnin' oil

Brad Bowles wrote:
>
> My '70 442 with a 455 and AT burns oil really bad.  The car is in tune
> and has been rebuilt about 60,000 miles ago.  I put in a quart about
> every two tanks of gas.
>         Is there any way to slow the burning oil process until I can
> afford a rebuild?  I run 10w 30 oil, should I run heavier oil?  Any
> additives I could use?
> Thanks
> Brad
> 70 442

     Brad,

     You can go as high as 20w50 and or use a "honey-oil" such as
NO-SMOKE, STP ENGINE ADDITIVE, etc, there are a ton of prducts for this
problem but the rebuild should be done as soon as you can afford it.
Hope this helps.

               Gerald Gibson
               gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:38:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Burnin' oil -Reply

Brad,

I ran 10w30 in my 350 for well, about 6 years.  But in those 6 years I
only put about 10,00 miles on my '72 Cutlass.  Now that's it's my only
form of transportation, I want it to run right.  In the past, I heard an
occaisional knocking on acceleration and I burned a little oil.  I
thought I would need a rebuild... till I looked in my owners manual and
found out what oil weight I was *supposed* to be using.  I switched, and
it's like a brand new engine.  I would definately switch to a heavier
oil before going for the rebuild.  You may find that it solves most of
your problems. If you live in a region of the US that has extremely
cold winters, I would use at least 10w40 for the winter months.  Then
when things start to warm up next spring, switch to 20w50.  Some people
curse multi-viscosity oils, but I've never had a problem with them.
Switching from 10w30 to the right weight has been a miracle cure for
quite a few people on the list.  I'd bet it solves some if not all of
your problems... not to mention that it should increase power and
torque, and run slightly cooler.  Good luck!

- -Blaine "who only wishes he had a 442" Sanders
'72 Cutlass Supreme

>	Is there any way to slow the burning oil process until I can
>afford a rebuild?  I run 10w 30 oil, should I run heavier oil?  Any
>additives I could use?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:48:11 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

Dave,

Everywhere I've read about Land Rovers, the engine has been refered to
as the Buick.  I did not know about the Olds 215.  I thought ONLY Buick
made one; oh well...

>Oldsmobile also made an aluminum 215 (I thought _ONLY_ Olds made one).

Roger Borlase

------------------------------
 
From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:53:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported

>>2) I've gotten confused here with the recent discussion on ported,
>>manifold, and venturi vacuum. I thought I knew what manifold (below
the >>throttle plate) and venturi (above the plate) was, but now I'm
not sure, >>and I have no clue what port or ported vacuum means. Anyone
care to >>enlighten me?

     Here is a repeat of the post I did earlier.  It should cover that
question.  The ported EGR that Andrew is talking about is a different
system entirely, which deals with a bleed-off type diaphram in the valve
(I guess...)

>>    Bottom line:  Get a vaccuum guage and map out all your ports.
--Any ports that have high vacuum at idle are manifold vacuum ports.
These feed your heater control supply, map sensor (on newer ones) Vacuum
advance (some models), air cleaner controls, etc. and trans. vacuum
modulator. >--Any ports (usually just one) that shows zero vacuum at
idle, but full vacuum at off-idle (throttle just cracked open slightly)
is ported vacuum. These can go to the vacuum advance on some vehicles,
and some have other sadistic uses for this line, I guess. >--One port
will show no vacuum at idle or off-idle, but will increase vacuum with
rpm.  This is the venturi vacuum.  EGR goes here.  There may be vacuum
delay valves, ported vacuum switches, and crap like that in between, but
the root source is the venturi vacuum port.

at idle:
         |          |
         |          |
         | \      / |
         |  |    |  |
         |  |   ======= -> Venturi Vacuum: No airflow
         |  |    |  |       through venturi, therefore, no vac.
         |          |
         |          |
         |          |
         |_____o___==== -> Ported Vacuum: Throttle closed, no vac.
         |          |
         |         ==== -> Manifold Vacuum: Full vacuum.

Light throttle:

         |          |
         |          |
         | \      / |
         |  |    |  |
         |  |   ======= -> Venturi Vacuum: Still no noticable
         |  |    |  |       vacuum.
         |          |
         |          |
angle not|        / |
this     |     o/  ==== -> Ported Vacuum: Port exposed to manifold
extreme  |    /     |       vacuum, therefor, full vacuum
         |  /      ==== -> Manifold Vacuum: Full Vacuum


Higher speeds:

             more
         | airflow  |
         |    ||    |
         | \  ||  / |
         |  | VV |  |
         |  |   ======= -> Venturi Vacuum: siphoning affect applies
         |  |    |  |       vacuum at this port.
         |          |
         |     |    |
         |     |    |
         |     o   ==== -> Ported Vacuum--\
         |     |     |                       Both Low
         |     |   ==== -> Manifold Vacuum/



 I hope this helps out a bit more.  If there's any more assistance I can
provide, fire away.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:53:40 -0300
Subject: Re: HI PERFORMANCE AIR SHOCKS

>>My advice (and I know a few will back me, actually I'm backing them)
is to >>go with air bags.  I'm running them with SensaTracs on the GS,
and it is >>just amazing.  One $60 pair of balloons gave me posi. > >How
much pressure (psi) do you put in your bags?

     I run between 5 and 10 psi to the left (driver's side) and about 30
to the right.  If I get odd-tracking or start breaking loose, I'll alter
the ratio.  The manufaturer requires no less than five and no more than
50 psi in there.  With less than five, the bags will lose the pressure
against the springs, and the springs will act as a screw when
compressing.  This causes the bags to spin in the springs, and will
twist the hell out of the air line going to them, until something
breaks.

    Keep in mind my GS is not a Mitsubishi :) but should parallel your
'69 perfectly here.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 23:52:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

>The Olds has to be lighter because it is not really a big block in
reality.

Please enlighten omnicient one...

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:43:26 -0300
Subject: Re: For Sale 66 Toro

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> Jeramy Goble wrote:
> >
> > Was anyone interested in the 66 Toro I looked at last week. Maybe I
> > didn't get the mail out as I thought.
>
> Oh, I got it.  Just no bucks for another one.   :(
>
> Do you want me to forward this to the Olds list?
>
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>      (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

Mike,
Please forward to the Olds list. Thanks
Reggie

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:02:03 -0300
Subject: 'nother day, part two...

I interviewed with EDS/GM again this morning.  Got all dressed up and
polished the resume again.  Looks fairly promising.  Everyone from here
that has gone to work for them seems to like it a lot.  Most of them go
to EDS-Chevrolet, but I'm trying hard to get in at Olds.  Aside from the
~obvious~ reasons, Lansing sounds so much more pleasant than Detroit.
Chevy pays better, tho, and offers better benefits.  :(  I can't believe
I used those two words in the ~same~ sentence--Chevy & Better???

I sent off my $$$ for a H/O hood scoop for the Rockit today, too
:)))  <--  this is a ~really~ fat one of ~these:~  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:05:39 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

.  I thought ONLY Buick made one; oh
>well...
>
>>Oldsmobile also made an aluminum 215 (I thought _ONLY_ Olds made one).
>

I saw an ad in the paper today, something about "f/s, engines still in
cars, chevy 350... Buick 403... etc etc. "  Some people!
     Of course, it was right beside an ad for a 70 W30 that looked (text
wise) really cool!


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:08:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

>>The Olds has to be lighter because it is not really a big block in
reality.

     Good point.  chevy made the small blocks and big blocks.
           ~Oldsmobile~ made the Small Blocks and Big Blocks.

     So there!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:06:11 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

In a message dated 96-10-22 17:13:26 EDT, you write:

> go with the six speed regardless of what it takes...that would be a
one of >  a kind!!!

Thanks, I heard alot of responses with good advice, thanks to all who
responded! I did have the crankshaft machined while it was out to accept
manual or auto trans, so the rest is just a decision. I know about the
BOP-Chev plate to enable me to bolt on a Chev trans, but I guess what I
really wanted was an enthusiastic response like the one above to "get
crazy" and "spend a lot of time and money" to be different and have some
fun!!

I'm now going to get serious about investigating the 6 speed idea.....
I've found the trans, new from GM, and now I've got to find a donor for
the clutch linkage and so on. Wish me luck, here I go!

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Conv.

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:21:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

I remember a article in JWO some time ago where a fellow did a corvette
6 speed conversion on a 70 442.  Ill try to dig it up for ya.  From what
I remember he had to do lots of modifying to get it to work.

Mike

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:43:09 -0300
Subject: Re:Help please

Give me your snail mail address & I'll forward all I come across.  The
address for the So Cal Chapter is on my web page - check it out.  I
think first sign up is $25 or so & renewals are $12.

How's that?

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:44:38 -0300
Subject: 700-R4 vs. 6 speed

With all the talk concerning 700's and 6 speed's, I figured I would add
my $.02.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind when searching for an
overdrive tranny, wheter it be an automatic or a standard. To mention a
few, one would be gear ratios while another would be praticalliy.

As for the gear ratios, if you ever plan on racing the car (1/4 mile or
whatever), be leary of the 700-4R.  Althougth 1st gear is extremely low,
2nd gear is much higher, which really hurts acceleration.  The car will
really launch in 1st gear but when it hits 2nd it will puke.  As for the
gear ratios for the 6 speed, I cannot quote the exact numbers, but I do
know that some of the gears are very close to one another, and therefore
you can skip gears with no problems.

As for praticallity, an adapter plate will have to be used for the
700-R4.
 700's only have Chevy bolt patterns so it will have to be converted to
a BOP.  The 200-4R will bolt up with no problem and is the same size as
a 350, but it can't handle a huge amount of torque.  As for the 6 speed,
aquiring the correct bell housing/clutch/hydraulic clutch setup might
create some problems.  I'm sure parts can be fabricated, but you might
run into some difficulty.  But it sure would be wild....

As mentioned earlier on the list, Hot Rod did an article on a 4L80E
build up, and since it is behind a 3.8 Buick V6, it will work behind an
Olds (maybe they ran an adapter plate as mentioned before).  The only
problem with this is that the trans requires a computer, which is a
little more than most people want to tackle, especially in olds cars.
The 4L80E is essentially a TH-400 with overdrive.

FYI -> Here are some common trans gear ratios:

Trans              1st    2nd   3rd   4th
350               2.52  1.52  1.00  ---
400               2.48  1.48  1.00  ---
200-4R            2.74  1.57  1.00  0.67
700-4R            3.06  1.62  1.00  0.70
4L80E             2.48  1.48  1.00  0.80
Muncie (Wide)     2.52  1.88  1.47  1.00
Muncie (Close)    2.20  1.64  1.28  1.00

Hope this info helps....
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:52:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Wagon parts

Roger -  did you try my Canadian source for Olds parts?  He's got
L*O*T*S of wagons and is fairly reasonable (grille request, etc.)  His
names Richard & he's at 416/775-OLDS.  He'll ship UPS.

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 01:02:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Free Parts

The wheel had a few cracks, two big ones. The center cap is gone and the
horn is out always on some spokes.  The wheel has been roughed up with
sand paper to give it grip.  The tilt lever has been sawed off to a 1"
stub(gotta save weight!)  The tilt and telescoping still work.  I use to
get guys who would brag about how they could drive better/faster than I
could, so I would send them out with out tightening the telescope.
Never failed the would come back white as a ghost and tell me the
steering was coming apart, to which I cooly replied, "yes there is a
fare amount of slop, you have to learn to compensate for it."  Next
race, never fails, the tec comes over (the telescope has been tightened
back up by then) and gives the steering a good look see and walks away
shaking his head mumbling about this other fellah.  Ah, everyone loved
that Olds of mine. (most of the other divers were in on it, they thought
a telescoping steering wheel was just the coolest thing).  Back to the
point, I don't think there is enough left to work for you purpose.
Kenneth

>My main concern is the steering wheel itself and associated parts. If
the >horn is gone that is ok. Is it just the horn cap that is gone? If
the >column is mostly there and all tilt and signal levers are there I
would >want it. What color is the column & steering wheel? Is the wheel
cracked? >How much will you be wanting for it? > >           Life,
Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles >'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
'65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible >            Email: bryceman@442.com
URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:56:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Posi

At 10:14 AM 10/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The other day a fellow in a 68 442, like mine, shouted to me on the
freeway >that he had positraction that would fit my car.  He said that
it would cost >me $300.  Was that a good price?  What would be the
benefit in having this >device?

For the whole rear axle, if it is a C-type 12-bolt, with the gears you
want, then it is a good price. If he is talking about just the carrier,
then that's a bad price. You'd have to see specifically what he has to
offer:

10-bolt or 12-bolt "O" type, or 10-bolt or 12-bolt "C" type, or 10-bolt
"P" type?

Cone (nonrebuildable) or clutch (rebuildable) posi unit?

How old/how many miles on the bearings?

What ratio gears? Street (good) or race (too soft for street use)-type
gears?

What width brake drums? (2" for coupes/sedans,  2.5" for wagons)

You could easily spend over $300 for parts and labor just to get a
decent used axle in the shape you want it, more for something that is in
bad shape (galled shafts, cracked gears, cone posi).

Oh, and the advantage is that you can leave two black strips in front of
the Burger-King parking lot rather than just one... ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:56:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Newbie

At 04:15 AM 10/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Igeuss I never formally introduced myself to the list. My names Rob
>Myers and I own a 70' Cutlass Supreme. I'm 16 and the Cutlass is my

Hey, I started with a 1970 CS when I was 16 (still own it!). That was
over 13 years ago, and you'll see from my .sig where *that* led me...

[snip]
>originality. The list has been helpful so far. I'm glad I subscribed
>because now I have disk brakes curtesy of a 71' Monte Carlo.

Nice to be able to stop, huh? I'm going to try and get the spindles from
my '76 Monte on the CS, if I can ever get through to H-O Racing for some
of their ball-joints and upper A-arms. (anyone have a current number for
them? I haven't seen any advertisements for them lately)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 01:02:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

At 10:48 PM 10/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dave,
>
>Everywhere I've read about Land Rovers, the engine has been refered to
as the >Buick.  I did not know about the Olds 215.  I thought ONLY
Buick made one; oh >well... > >>Oldsmobile also made an aluminum 215 (I
thought _ONLY_ Olds made one).

The Olds version was essentially the same as the Buick, but it had an
extra head-bolt for each cylinder, so the heads don't interchange. I
believe intakes do, though.

This engine certainly made its rounds; first the Buick/Olds, then Rover
(car and truck) in the UK and even in Australia (they based a musclecar
on it, for Australia only; honest!), then in Repco F1 cars (again, out
of Australia), and in the Morgan 8, and the revived MGB... the list goes
on and on. Soon it will have outlasted the first-generation Ch*vy SB V-8
(since the British *never* change anything...).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:01:13 -0300
Subject: Olds 307 buildup

I own a 84 Cutlass Calais with a stock 307 and a 350 Turbo Trans with
TCI Saturday Nite Special and TCI shift kit.  It has the stock 7.5
inch rearend with the doggy 2.14 gear ratio.  I was wondering what I
could do to make the car come alive short of changing the motor.  It
is a Tennesee car with 65,000 original miles and the motor was
rebuilt about 8,000 miles ago.  The motor was rebuilt due to
detenation problems and collapsed a piston while towing a boat trailer
up a mountain.  I plan on adding 2.25" dual exhaust with glasspacks
or some sort of turbo mufflers and changing the rearend to a 3.42
gear ratio.  Also, the car bogs severely when the accelerator is wide
open until the rpm's reach approx 3,000.  Then the motor clears out
and usually takes off fairly decent.  However, off the line it is a
total dog.  I usually shift to second at approx 4600 rpm's and it
won't even chirp the tires despite having a street-strip shift kit.
One mechanic said it was the MC solenoid malfunctioning causing the
severe bog.  We put the car on the tester and it said the mixture was
close to full rich throughout much of the RPM range and it idles
quite rough despite the fact that it has been rebuilt.  I would like
to get the car down into the mid 15's if possible.  Has anyone have
information on a computer chip for it or should I just save my money
and go with a 350 or 403?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Olds fan forever,

Joe Barker

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:07:16 -0300
Subject: Re: out of balance?

In response to your vibration problems,  I had the same problem with
my 84 Cutlass Calais.  The vibration started at around 5mph and
turned into a surge around 55 and shook the brains out of the car at
around 80.  A replacement of the right front tire was an instant cure.

Olds fan forever,

Joe Barker

84 Cutlass Calais Supreme

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:01:13 -0300
Subject: Olds 307 buildup

I own a 84 Cutlass Calais with a stock 307 and a 350 Turbo Trans with
TCI Saturday Nite Special and TCI shift kit.  It has the stock 7.5
inch rearend with the doggy 2.14 gear ratio.  I was wondering what I
could do to make the car come alive short of changing the motor.  It
is a Tennesee car with 65,000 original miles and the motor was
rebuilt about 8,000 miles ago.  The motor was rebuilt due to
detenation problems and collapsed a piston while towing a boat trailer
up a mountain.  I plan on adding 2.25" dual exhaust with glasspacks
or some sort of turbo mufflers and changing the rearend to a 3.42
gear ratio.  Also, the car bogs severely when the accelerator is wide
open until the rpm's reach approx 3,000.  Then the motor clears out
and usually takes off fairly decent.  However, off the line it is a
total dog.  I usually shift to second at approx 4600 rpm's and it
won't even chirp the tires despite having a street-strip shift kit.
One mechanic said it was the MC solenoid malfunctioning causing the
severe bog.  We put the car on the tester and it said the mixture was
close to full rich throughout much of the RPM range and it idles
quite rough despite the fact that it has been rebuilt.  I would like
to get the car down into the mid 15's if possible.  Has anyone have
information on a computer chip for it or should I just save my money
and go with a 350 or 403?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Olds fan forever,

Joe Barker

------------------------------

From: "LIKE CHICKS AND BEER? > JOIN A FRAT."
<S_WTJAMES@VAXA.CLARION.EDU> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:53:45 -0300
Subject: To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca



------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:06:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

At 11:52 PM 10/22/96 -0300, Roger M. Borlase wrote:
>>The Olds has to be lighter because it is not really a big block in
reality. > >Please enlighten omnicient one...

I am just going by what I have seen in the yard here. When I lift a hood
on a mid 70's Cutlass a 350 looks like a 403 ,looks like a 455 from just
a visual appearance. Have you ever seen a 396, 402 or 454 Chevy next to
an Olds 455? I did last year and the Chevy was obviously the bigger
engine. I was just always told by the so called experts that an Olds BB
is not really a big block like a 454 is to a 350. I  have a 455 in a 74
Cutlass now that looks like the same size as a 260 in an early 80's
4-door Cutlass. I know manifold width is bigger by 2 inches on an Olds
BB. Heads off a 455 would fit onto a 260 I have been told, never looked
to see. Now Chevy 305 heads will not fot a 454 at all. I don't know,
just some toughts - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate
student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the
December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it
at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: willie@MADNET.COM
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:17:32 -0300
Subject: out of balance?

[...my car vibrates from 5 miles per hour...]

<snip>

Check the drive shaft.  It may have tar or other road debris on it, or
it could just be old and bent.  :)

- -Shane
This message sent from The Net BBS 608-221-5702.
Telnet address: bbs.madnet.com

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 04:19:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds 215

>That would be the Buick 215.  It is an alluminum engine.

Oldsmobile also made an aluminum 215 (I thought _ONLY_ Olds made one).
- --

     Actually, this is similar to the Northstar/Aurora story.  Buick
     developed the aluminum 215 and a related cast iron 198 cu in V-6.
I
     say related because the V-6 used the same internal geometry (well,
     obviously not exactly the same bore and stroke, but things like
rods,
     bearing sizes, bore spacing, etc.) and many of the same external
     pieces, like the front cover and water pump.  Olds then took this
     engine and designed a unique-to-Olds set of heads (and I think,
intake
     manifolds - my memory is fuzzy, but I seem to recall that the port
     spacing was different on the Olds heads.  Can someone recall if
this
     was the case?).  As I think most here know, Olds released the 215
(and
     the Buick V-6) in the 1961 F-85/Cutlass line.  Olds went on to
     turbocharge this engine in the 1962 and 63 Jetfire (Cutlass body),
then
     replaced it in 1964 with the Olds-designed 330, to go in the
redesigned
     F-85/Cutlass/442.

     Buick also used the 215 and the V-6 in the 1961 - 63
Special/Skylark
     lines.  In 1964, Buick changed the block to cast iron (the heads
     remained aluminum) and increased the stroke to get to 300 cu in.
     Pontiac also used the 215, along with their own 195 cu in slant 4
     (actually one half of a 389 Poncho V-8) in the 1961 - 62 Tempest.
In
     63, Pontiac used their own 326.

     As you might have surmised, the original 198 cu in Buick V-6 grew
to
     225, later 231 (today's 3.8 liter unit), and finally to 4.1 liters.

     Some of these parts (front covers, water pumps, rods, timing chain)

     can still be used on the 215 V-8.  Buick sold the design and
tooling
     for the V-6 to Willys in 1967 (?), where it was used in the Jeep
line
     for a few years.  GM was able to buy the rights back in the 70s
during
     the gas crunch, and the rest, as they say, is history.

     The 215, meanwhile, was sold to what was then British Leyland
     following the 1963 model year.  BL put the engine to use in the
Rover
     3500, the TR8, the MGC, and the Range Rover.  The Rochester 2 and 4

     barrel carbs gave way to twin SU carbs, and later fuel injection.
     Displacement has grown from 3.5 liters to 3.9 and 4.6.  This engine
is
     a favorite of the British cottage automakers, where it is used in
the
     TVR, reproductions of the Lotus 7, Morgan Plus 8, and numerous
other
     limited production sports cars.  GM also tried to buy this motor
back
     in the 70s and were politely told (we _are_ talking about the
British,
     after all) that no, we won't sell the rights, but we _will_ supply
     complete motors (presumably at a handsom profit).  GM, of course,
said
     no thanks.

     Joe Padavano - former owner of a 215-powered Vega wagon
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 04:57:10 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

At 11:52 PM 10/22/96 -0300, Roger M. Borlase wrote:
>>The Olds has to be lighter because it is not really a big block in
reality. > >Please enlighten omnicient one...

When I lift a hood on a mid 70's Cutlass a 350 looks like a 403 ,looks
like a 455 from just a visual appearance. Have you ever seen a 396, 402
or 454 Chevy next to an Olds 455? I did last year and the Chevy was
obviously the bigger engine.

     OK, first let's all agree that "big block" and "small block" are
     terms made up by hot rodders and have no official connotations
     whatsoever.  They originally referred to Chevy's
     262-265-283-302-307-327-350-400 engine family (small block) and
     366-396-402-427-454 Mark IV/Mark V engine family (big block) as
     an easy way to differentiate between the two.  Note that there
     has never been an official Chevrolet or GM designation of "big"
     or "small" block - what would you call the 348-409 family?

     In reality, virtually all US automakers have had two engine
     families which have high parts interchangability within family
     and limited or no interchangability between families.  As an
     example, see the 273-318-340-360 A-block and 383-400-413-426-440
     B- and RB-block Chrysler families.  Ford (as usual) complicates
     matters with the 221-260-289-302-351 family (small block - with
     both Windsor and Cleveland versions), the 390-427-428 Y-block
     family (big block), and the 429-460 family (other big block -
     although in fairness the 429-460 family really replaced the
     Y-blocks).

     Olds, of course, has the 260-260D-307-330-350-350D-403 small
     block family and the 400 (short and long stroke)-425-455 big
     block family.  The major difference is that while most other
     automakers designed two completely different engine families (I'm
     speculating here that this is because these other automakers each
     originated their big block families for their truck lines), Olds
     first developed the 330 small block, then raised the deck height
     and beefed the internals to build the 400 big block.  As a
     result, there is much more internal commonality between the big
     and small Olds motors than between other automakers' different
     engine lines.  In fact, the two Olds lines are more like the
     Chrysler B- and RB- lines.

     Note that Pontiac has only one engine line, and I suspect that
     the same is true for Buick (discounting things like the 215 and
     the nailhead).  Note that here I am refering to engine lines in
     simultaneous production - I know Pontiac went through an
     evoulution in the late 50s-early 60s, for example.  I've also
     purposely left out the early Olds V-8s, for that same reason.

I was just always told by the so called experts that an Olds BB is not
really a big block like a 454 is to a 350.

     These wouldn't be the same "experts" who swear that a Buick 455
     is the same as an Olds 455 is the same as a Pontiac 455, would
     they?

I  have a 455 in a 74 Cutlass now that looks like the same size as a 260
in an early 80's 4-door Cutlass.

     As noted above, that is by design.  It also makes it easier to
     put a 455 in an 80s G-body Cutlass, paint it GM blue, and pass it
     off as a 307  :)

I know manifold width is bigger by 2 inches on an Olds BB. Heads off a
455 would fit onto a 260 I have been told, never looked to see.

     The bore spacing and basic geometry is the same, and the bolt
     holes and pushrod holes will line up, but differences like bolt
     diameter and combustion chamber and port size make this a
     less-than-good idea.  On the other hand, grafting big block heads
     on a 403, while requiring machine work and a special intake
     manifold, makes a lot more sense.  At one time HO Racing (yes,
     the Poncho people) sold just such a manifold for all the 403
     Trans Ams on the road.

Now Chevy 305 heads will not fot a 454 at all.

     Right, because the geometry is totally different, not to mention
the
     splayed valves of the BBC.

     Actually, to get back to the origin of this whole thread, I seem to

     recall that the big block Olds weighs something like 760 lbs fully
     dressed.  This data is in one of my old Petersen's Book of Engine
     Swaps - which is unfortunately home in Virginia while I am here in
     Phoenix on business.  I'll look up the weights when I get home
Friday.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 05:43:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 700-R4 vs. 6 speed

In a message dated 96-10-22 23:52:52 EDT, OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:

> As for the 6 speed, aquiring
>  the correct bell housing/clutch/hydraulic clutch setup might create
some >  problems.  I'm sure parts can be fabricated, but you might run
into some >  difficulty.  But it sure would be wild....

Thank you very much for your detailed response, I think I'm going to
just dive in on this one! My brother's father-in-law has a very nice
machine shop, and made me a brushed aluminum switch panel that's
awesome! He can handle fabrication. I'm also about to have more money
than sense in about a month due to an insurance settlement. (I'm sitting
here eating Kraft macaroni and cheese, putting together my wish list!)
And with all the talk of how most new cars suck, I think I will just
keep investing in my old car, it's reliable, fast and fun! My friend
bought a 96 Camaro SS, I won, AND mine's a convertible, can carry five
comfortably, and room in the trunk for two more! (Drive-ins!) Besides
I'm sure if I throw another ten thousand at my car, I can save another
couple of pennies at the gas pump! Makes sense to me!!

Take care,

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible 455 (Trying to keep it and stay legal
in CA!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:15:51 -0300
Subject: New Oldsmobiles

Heh...you guys might not like the new Oldsmobiles, but according to the
morning news here, it's the #2 most most popular...with car thieves.
The #1 most stolen car??  Honda Accord. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:46:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Mail order Tools

try Northern Hydraulics.


Katana72            It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!
Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:58:49 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobiles

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> Heh...you guys might not like the new Oldsmobiles, but according to
the > morning news here, it's the #2 most most popular...with car
thieves. > The #1 most stolen car??  Honda Accord.

Must be a regional thing.  Here on the other side of Florida, the news
just reported that the Chrysler mini-van as #1 (room for more
joy-riders) and the Accord as #2.  Yo!  Go American!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 09:17:45 -0300
Subject: RE: New Oldsmobiles

Ya, I saw the same new report while getting ready for work... Anyone
know why the Accord is first? Do the parts fit many cars also?

- ----------
From: 	Dave Paulison[SMTP:dpauliso@gate.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, October 23, 1996 6:15 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	New Oldsmobiles

Heh...you guys might not like the new Oldsmobiles, but according to the
morning news here, it's the #2 most most popular...with car thieves.
The #1 most stolen car??  Honda Accord. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 09:26:35 -0300
Subject: Re: race and contact list

Olds used that 215 as well!  Give me one of those F-85's or Jetfires (?)
that used them, and I'd bet money that the heads, etc. would bolt right
onto mine.  Its in the FAQ already, I was just being willing to help by
giving more info.

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 09:45:51 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

Roe Dyeland Bob sez:

> The Olds version was essentially the same as the Buick, but it had an
extra > head-bolt for each cylinder, so the heads don't interchange. I
believe > intakes do, though.

I remember reading (perhaps in our list?) that Buick, Pontiac and Olds
all did their own "take" on the compact body style from which the
Cutlass evolved. Both Buick and Olds used the 215 aluminum V8 -- a new
concept to some folks, who made the mistake of running straight water in
the cooling system :O -- with a standard RWD drivetrain.  Pontiac ran a
4 cylinder -- a block still in use at least through the 1980's, a.k.a.
"The Iron Duke" -- with a strange flexible driveshaft and rear
transaxle/tranny... dunno if they ran other engines as well.

By 1964, when the platform changed, and Ch*vy also joined the fray,
using it for the Ch*v*ll* (dunno if the Malibu barbie model was
available then too), all the divisions were using conventional
drivetrain layouts, and the aluminum V8 was gone (I think). 'tis a shame
GM dropped it like that after just a coupla years; in retrospect I think
they'd have done better to keep it and continue improving it -- we might
still have it in production, and more current Olds products might be V8
powered!

>
> This engine certainly made its rounds; first the Buick/Olds, then
Rover (car > and truck) in the UK and even in Australia (they based a
musclecar on it, > for Australia only; honest!)

I think that was the same car Mel Gibson drove in 'The Road Warrior' --
and, it was super-charged!! :)




Tim (Who Knows Mel is an American, Not an Australian) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:56:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Good Tech Needed in Orlando

>>Sometimes the light will go off and the car will act normally
within
>>minutes; other times it remains on. The outside temperature seems
to
>>have an effect...if sitting in the sun, light goes off almost
>>immediately.  If it's at night, light remains on.  The digital
>>display will occasionally "flicker", as will the engine light if
>>going over a bump in the road.  My guess is that it's an electrical

>>problem.

>Agreed. I'd check electrical connections to the dash (e.g. where
the
>harness plugs into the back) and all ground connections. You can
never
>have too many of those. Under the hood, I'd look for much the same
>thing, especially ground straps linking engine to frame and frame
to
>battery. Something is indeed loose.

With all the wiring, modular connectors, etc. in this one, it's gonna
be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.  But I suppose I have
to start somewhere and try them one-by-one, right?

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:58:16 -0300
Subject: Rich fuel

Hi,
     I have an '87 Cutlass Supreme with a 307 and a Quadra-Jet carb. I
have notice that every once and a while there are large amounts of black
soot coming out of the tail pipes. It seems like it has been doing this
nonstop here lately. Could any one tell me what may be the problem? This
stuff is getting everywhere! When ever I start it up, black soot
splatters everywhere. Sometimes its just little sprinkles but a lot of
the time it looks like puddles. It is usually real watery and doesn't
smell much like gas. Is this a rich fuel mixture if it doesn't smell
like gas? I have heard that these Quadra-Jets are notorious for running
rich.
      Thanks a bunch.

Andy
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
 '87 Cutlass Supreme
 '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
 '74 Delta 88 convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:01:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

>
> Hi everyone. I have a few questions about Oldsmobiles. First of all,
is the > BB Olds lighter than the BB Chevy? And second, what is the
average gas > mileage for a '70 455 Cutlass?

I share with you what I get.  I have a 400 BB and get anywhere from
10-12 mpg anywhere.  With a 455 I would assume even worse!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:14:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Good Tech Needed in Orlando

>With all the wiring, modular connectors, etc. in this one, it's gonna
>be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.  But I suppose I have
>to start somewhere and try them one-by-one, right?

Well, sort of, yes. This isn't much help, but if there was ever a
case for Reading the F---ing Manual, an electrical problem is that.
Usually there's a diagnostic tree for the symptoms, telling you to
start in such-and-such a location to test for voltage, then move on
to some other location based on what you discover there, etc. Problem
here seems to be that you have symptoms all over the place, so I can't
say where you'd start -- maybe with whatever is reliably malfunctioning,
see if you can diagnose that via the manual, resolve it, then sit back
and see what else is still wrong. Frankly, diagnosing flaky electrical
systems takes a bit more time and patience than, say, fixing a water
pump, so you either pay someone else for a lot of labor-intensive
diagnostic time which may end up pointing to a twenty-five cent part,
or have a bash at it yourself...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:16:16 -0300
Subject: Re: out of balance?

>Check the drive shaft.  It may have tar or other road debris on it, or
>it could just be old and bent.  :)

Come to think of it, you could also a good-sized lump on the inboard
side of a rim or tire. Been in any mud recently? (I think there was a
scene in... "My Cousin Vinny"...? where they had this problem.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:17:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Definitions Required: Sintered & Ported

>     Here is a repeat of the post I did earlier.  It should cover that
>question.  The ported EGR that Andrew is talking about is a different
system >entirely, which deals with a bleed-off type diaphram in the
valve (I guess...)

Yeah, thought about that last night. I think I was talking about a
different use of "ported"; you're right.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:32:08 -0300
Subject: RE: Rich fuel

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC0CD.72286820
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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My 86, different carb did this. A tune up with new wires (they were 10
years old) squared everything up. It was pretty disgusting to see the
snow turn black and sooty while your car warmed up. :)

- ----------
From: 	Andy Geeting[SMTP:geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, October 23, 1996 9:58 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Rich fuel

Hi,
     I have an '87 Cutlass Supreme with a 307 and a Quadra-Jet carb. I
have notice that every once and a while there are large amounts of black
soot coming out of the tail pipes. It seems like it has been doing this
nonstop here lately. Could any one tell me what may be the problem? This
stuff is getting everywhere! When ever I start it up, black soot
splatters everywhere. Sometimes its just little sprinkles but a lot of
the time it looks like puddles. It is usually real watery and doesn't
smell much like gas. Is this a rich fuel mixture if it doesn't smell
like gas? I have heard that these Quadra-Jets are notorious for running
rich.
      Thanks a bunch.

Andy
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
 '87 Cutlass Supreme
 '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
 '74 Delta 88 convertible





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From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:17:45 -0300
Subject: New Oldsmobile Enthusiast booklet

Hello Everyone,

Some of you mentioned that this booklet was a help and others said it
was a waste.  Well for what it is worth there was a new addition of the
"Aids for the Oldsmobile Enthusiast"  booklet released this summer and I
would be happy to send anyone interested a copy of the booklet.   It is
put out by the Oldsmobile History Center, (Helen Earley) and contains
sources for restoration parts and services. It also lists all the Olds
Clubs.

If interested send me an email with name and address.  Oh, and if
possible put *Olds Enthusiast* in the subject line to help me quickly
find them as my mail box has been rather full will the lists mail :-)

Heidi Magyar
Oldsmobile, Lansing, MI

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #340
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