To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/24/96 12:08:01 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #379


oldsmobile-digest         Sunday, 24 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 379


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:18:50 -0400
Subject: Olds. Parts found at Junkyard! - a Question...

Ok., I was back at the junkyard I wrote about, and have a few things to
report.  First, the '83 or so Calais I found with T-tops will not be
leaving with me, just parts of it...  (guages, center console, and floor
shift).  So that leaves a set of T's out here, look in good condition,
along with the usual other stuff.

BTW, I was given a price of $100 bucks for the Guage package, console,
shifter, and cable mechanism.  Sound reasonable, I thought it did, so
I'm heading back there Tues., with money, and wrenches in hand, of
course.  It also sound like he may have some good rims put up in a
garage out there, I'll find out more about that when I'm there again.

Next, I found quite a few late 70's to mid 80's Cutlasses out there with
alot of different stuff on them, no other guages though, sorry, but if
anybody needs some parts from these years, E-mail me, and we can figure
something out.  I also found one older (looks like approx. 70's-ish
Cutlass) but it wasn't in great shape (body cancer) and quite a few
parts off the interior, but if there's something specific you need, let
me know, I'll make the trip out there to look again, and see if it's
there.  There were alot of Toros out there, in a range of ages, mainly
mid 70's or so.  I'm not sure what some of the older stuff looks like,
so unless it's got a badge that's visible, I couldn't tell, like I said,
there alot of older stuff there, so I'm sure there's some older Oldses
out there.

I did find something for my "Big Engine" work, an older 350 (least I
think, no casting on side of block of course).  But... casting number on
the block was....  395558, and it had heads with the number 7 on the
front side, and the number 409 147 (looked like 147 at least) above the
middle ports.  So, I'm right in figuring I should be looking at picking
these heads up when I go on Tues., right?  Non-smog, big valves,
hardened exhaust valves, small combustion chambers, etc.  This leaves me
with one other question, when going to the hard valve seats, is it just
the exhaust, or the intake also?  Any downfalls, or problems with
leaving them as is?

I did find one other thing off-hand, a big block, but it had "J" heads
on it, no big deal.

I'll post more as I find it...  and thanks for any info. on my "finds".

Thanks,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:21:21 -0400
Subject: Electronic Nomenclature

Last night was a wonderful lerning experience for me.  I have a very
rough understanding, at best, and this escpecially turn concerning the
electrical mechanics of the various parts in electrical circuitry.

If I have this correct, a diode, as used in a altenator is used as a
rectifier to provide DC from the AC output.

Is this the same function as a would have occured in an early vacuum
tube; the earliest of which I think were also called diodes.  When they
added a beryllium grid, which as I remember increased the electron flow
at the same power levels, it was called a triode.  It looks like in
vacuum tube days, both the triode and diode were continuous duty
devices, ie, they operated as long as the radio (or whatever) was turned
on.  In this case the triode was just an improved diodic tube.

In my original postings yesterday I wish I would have used the term
"integrated circuit," instead of transistor like!  It would have come
across better I think.

Anyway, what is the archaic, ie tube type curcuitry, equivalent of a
transistor?  Or does it take more tan one device to equate to the
circuit. I know there are two types of transistors, ie NPN and PNP, and
while that has important value to a circuit designer, I doub't the
circuits are that different, save for whether the polarity at any
particular point is + or -.

Lastly, I wasn't really suggesting that a cats wisker, as used on a
crystal radio might have been used in an automotive alternator.

I expect that there is one hidden truth too.  An old fashioned generator
had a rather large copper field, and a lot of copper in the armature.  I
also expect that the alternator was manufactured at much lower cost,
while give superior performace.  A sort of having your cake and eating
it too, for the car companies.

Cliff Feiler
Not Thomas A. Edison, Jr.,
Not Nickola Tesla, Jr.,
Not Philo Farnsworth, Jr.,
Not Charles Steinmetz, Jr. either

------------------------------

From: "Victoria L. Albritton 813-773-3181" <ALBRITV@mail.firn.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:25:41 -0400
Subject: unsubscribe

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------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:33:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Electronic Nomenclature

NOT Edison/Tesla/Farnsworth/Steinmetz wrote:
>
> If I have this correct, a diode, as used in a altenator is used as a
> rectifier to provide DC from the AC output.

Exactamundo.

> Is this the same function as a would have occured in an early vacuum
> tube; the earliest of which I think were also called diodes.

Yup.

> When they added a beryllium grid, which as I remember increased the
> electron flow at the same power levels, it was called a triode.

Acutally decreased the flow.  Tubes will conduct like mad (in the
forward direction).  The addition of a control grid was to restrict the
flow.  A triode would have a positive voltage on the "plate" or anode
but a negative voltage on the control grid.  By varying the negative
voltage on the control grid, you could vary the current flow through
the tube.

> It looks like in vacuum tube days, both the triode and diode were
> continuous duty devices, ie, they operated as long as the radio (or
> whatever) was turned on.

Yup.  But the same holds true for a transistorized version.

> In this case the triode was just an improved diodic tube.

In a sense.  The diode had no means to control the current flow -- it
was basically on or off.  Think of the diode as a standard wall switch,
the triode as a dimmer.

> In my original postings yesterday I wish I would have used the term
> "integrated circuit," instead of transistor like!  It would have come
> across better I think.

"Solid state" would cover everything BUT the vacuum tube.

> Anyway, what is the archaic, ie tube type curcuitry, equivalent of a
> transistor?

A triode.

> Or does it take more tan one device to equate to the circuit.

A transistor is a single component just as a vacuum tube is.  A
"circuit" implies many components -- as in integrated circuit.

> I know there are two types of transistors, ie NPN and PNP, and while
> that has important value to a circuit designer, I doub't the circuits
> are that different, save for whether the polarity at any particular
> point is + or -.

There's some small details but that's pretty much it.

> Lastly, I wasn't really suggesting that a cats wisker, as used on a
> crystal radio might have been used in an automotive alternator.

Understood.

> I expect that there is one hidden truth too.  An old fashioned
> generator had a rather large copper field, and a lot of copper in the
> armature.  I also expect that the alternator was manufactured at much
> lower cost, while give superior performace.  A sort of having your
cake > and eating it too, for the car companies.

The efficiency of the alternator was a lot better than the generator so
they could be smaller and no doubt save $$$.  And since they put out a
more stable voltage, they're more suitable for modern electronics.

The 66 Toro and Wirehead


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:38:05 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

Scholar wrote:
>
> Now mind you the car has just over 170K, and up to this point i've
> replaced many alternators...i lost count some where around 10. I 've
> had the thing tested at the alternator shop several times and
> nothing...now what could be causing all this? Mind you this car is run
 > up to 7000 rpm daily. the original one lasted till 105K.

What's going wrong with them?  They stop putting out juice or the
bearing go?  If the juice thing, then there's prolly something else in
the car that's eating them -- and will continue to do so until found.

If the bearings, the aftermarket replacements may just not be up to a
daily 7 grand -- I'd discuss this with a speed shop.  Also, too much
belt tension will screw the bearings.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:36:13 -0400
Subject: Happy Guy

I am getting a certific from the DMV here in CA that states that
because I have the OAI hood, I do not need the NOX device.  I have a '70
 442 and the Ram Air came stock, but I got the car and it also has the
NOX device.  I heard through the mail, that with the Ram Air that you
don't have to have this smog device! 	I still have the TVS device on my
car and I need that too to pass smog.  But If you remember, Smog pumps
wern't necessary (or installed) in '70 and 71!  So much for buying a
car that is '65 or older! 	There is hope for us in California!!! Brad
'70 442 (almost smogless!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:08:14 -0400
Subject: Coolant capacity

I was thumbing through the owners manual for my '69 Cutlass, and came
across the page with the listing of fluid capacities.  It says that a
350 V8 w/o AC takes 15 quarts, and one with AC takes 16 quarts.  Why the
difference?  The engine is the same.  Does it have to do with the heater
core and related hoses?

Just curious...

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:13:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

>Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in >"Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of >the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the >$27. to $50. range!

I think this would be a good idea for wheel cylinders for very old cars,
that are difficult/near impossible to buy anymore.  For a car like my
Cutlass where the cylinders are still available, even plentiful, I don't
mind spending $25 or $30 a piece.  They seem to last well for me; the
last time they were replaced was over ten years ago. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: jev114@email.psu.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

In message Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:38:05 -0400,
  Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>  writes:

> Scholar wrote:
>
>>
>>   Now mind you the car has just over 170K, and up to this point i've
>>   replaced many alternators...i lost count some where around 10. I
've >>   had the thing tested at the alternator shop several times and
>>    nothing...now what could be causing all this? Mind you this car is
>> run   up to 7000 rpm daily. the original one lasted till 105K. >> > >
What's going wrong with them?  They stop putting out juice or the
bearing > go?  If the juice thing, then there's prolly something else in
the car > that's eating them -- and will continue to do so until found. > >
If the bearings, the aftermarket replacements may just not be up to a >
daily 7 grand -- I'd discuss this with a speed shop.  Also, too much
belt > tension will screw the bearings. > Well Mike

it's definately a juice thing...i'll be out in it sometimes runnin it
hard sometimes not and the battery light comes on indicating no
charging! i've changed the battery several times. I can usually tell
when one gonna give up, cuz the interior lights at night are not as
bright...then a week or 2 later the batt. light is on! i've also
replaced the tensioner! mabe just to much heat build or something that
keep blowin out the diode/rectifier!

Jeff

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:11:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Electronic Nomenclature

At 05:33 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>NOT Edison/Tesla/Farnsworth/Steinmetz wrote:

Snip>>

>The efficiency of the alternator was a lot better than the generator so
 >they could be smaller and no doubt save $$$.  And since they put out
a >more stable voltage, they're more suitable for modern electronics. >
>The 66 Toro and Wirehead > > >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation &
Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > Thanks El Toro aka Mike the Wirehead

Cliff Feiler
Learning again.

P.S.  One thing about getting the facts straight.  In college it was
usually accomplied by osmosis, today it take some work.

I only had one more electrical not, Edward Armstrong, so this is a good
place to end this one.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:31:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Coolant capacity

>I was thumbing through the owners manual for my '69 Cutlass, and came
across >the page with the listing of fluid capacities.  It says that a
350 V8 w/o AC >takes 15 quarts, and one with AC takes 16 quarts.  Why
the difference?  The >engine is the same.

Most likely dealing with the heavy-duty cooling system, (A/C) which
often used a three row instead of two row radiator.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:28:40 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

At 05:38 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Scholar wrote:
>>
>> Now mind you the car has just over 170K, and up to this point i've
>> replaced many alternators...i lost count some where around 10. I 've
>> had the thing tested at the alternator shop several times and
>> nothing...now what could be causing all this? Mind you this car is
run >> up to 7000 rpm daily. the original one lasted till 105K. >
>What's going wrong with them?  They stop putting out juice or the
bearing >go?  If the juice thing, then there's prolly something else in
the car >that's eating them -- and will continue to do so until found. >
 >If the bearings, the aftermarket replacements may just not be up to a
 >daily 7 grand -- I'd discuss this with a speed shop.  Also, too much
belt >tension will screw the bearings. > >The 66 Toro and Mike > > >--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > >

Back to engineering I remember.  The life of a bearing, such as a ball
bearing has a direct relationship to the speed that it is run, and the
pressue underwhich it is run.  Both of these elements constitute what I
will call load.  Also, such bearings have a practical top rotational
speed.  In other words, until you reach top red line rotational speed
the life of a bearing is reduced by the load.  At redline the mechnical
components of the bearing fail and it explodes; or, it is under
sufficient pressure (load) that the bearing ball is forced against the
race with sufficient force to cause the lubricant to squish out, which I
assume in practice is a very rare occurance.  (I assume an alternator
has ball bearing to carry the shaft. Roller bearings are similar, but
usually have greater load life.  And of course plain bearings are nearly
out of the question here? No?

Although Messers Mott, SKF, Nice, New Departure, and others; not
withstanding, while there are a large number of different precisions
under which ball bearings are assembled.  The useful life, of them all,
is greately reduced by excessive load.

He might find a bearing of another grade that will increase the life of
the part (alternator), but it will still not be a substantial
improvement in real time hours of operation.

I would suggest a simpler methodology to improve the life of the
alternator that is going to be run by an engine going to 7000 rpm.
Increase the size of the alternator pulley (fairly easy) or decrease the
size of the crankshaft pulley (not so easy) or both!

Ordinary service engines generally have a redline below 5000 rpm, and
all of the rotating parts at least, were designed with this service in
mind.  A smaller pulley on the crankshaft will reduce the load on the
waterpump too, which I would bet comes under a strain.  (Oh the beauty
of electric fans, which will also reduce the load on the water pump).  A
larger pulley here too, if necessary.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:30:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

At 03:36 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am getting a certific from the DMV here in CA that states that
>because I have the OAI hood, I do not need the NOX device.  I have a
'70 >442 and the Ram Air came stock, but I got the car and it also has
the >NOX device.  I heard through the mail, that with the Ram Air that
you >don't have to have this smog device! >	I still have the TVS device
on my car and I need that too to >pass smog.  But If you remember, Smog
pumps wern't necessary (or >installed) in '70 and 71!  So much for
buying a car that is '65 or >older! >	There is hope for us in
California!!! >Brad >'70 442 (almost smogless!) > > Hope! in California,
you mean Bob, right?  Palm Springs? Right!

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:32:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Coolant capacity

At 04:08 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I was thumbing through the owners manual for my '69 Cutlass, and came
across >the page with the listing of fluid capacities.  It says that a
350 V8 w/o AC >takes 15 quarts, and one with AC takes 16 quarts.  Why
the difference?  The >engine is the same.  Does it have to do with the
heater core and related hoses? > >Just curious... > >-- >Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >dpauliso@gate.net > > Good question, and I would
like to see the definitive answer.  Do you think they actually installed
a slightly larger radiator in A/C cars?

He who knows for sure, fill us in.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 04:13 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in >>"Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of >>the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the >>$27. to $50. range! > >I think this would be
a good idea for wheel cylinders for very old cars, >that are
difficult/near impossible to buy anymore.  For a car like my >Cutlass
where the cylinders are still available, even plentiful, I don't >mind
spending $25 or $30 a piece.  They seem to last well for me; the last
>time they were replaced was over ten years ago. >-- >Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme >Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >dpauliso@gate.net > One of these days soon,
you're '69 is going to qualify as old.  In Missouri you could already be
flying Antique Car tags on it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:39:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Electronic Nomenclature

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Thanks El Toro aka
> Mike the Wirehead

Glad to be of service.

> I only had one more electrical not, Edward Armstrong, so this is a
good > place to end this one.

What about NOT Ben Franklin?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:09:20 -0400
Subject: Re: W-30 Intake or not?

>YES!  It's from a 71 442 W30.  If you don't want it....
>
>Kurt
>71 442
>>
>> Unsolved Mystery:  I've got an intake that's got "Olds 455" written
>> between the carburetor and the thermostat housing.  It's aluminum.
Is >> this a W-30 intake? >

Then again, mine is the same way, (except that it says Edelbrock
Performer just before that.... :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:09:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds. Parts found at Junkyard! - a Question...

>BTW, I was given a price of $100 bucks for the Guage package, console,
>shifter, and cable mechanism.  Sound reasonable, I thought it did, so
I'm >heading back there Tues., with money, and wrenches in hand, of
course. Make sure, when getting the shifter, to get the bracket off
the tranny, if it's still there.  Every floor shift car I've come across
(and pilferred!) was missing the tranny, so I have three different floor
shifters, and no trans brackets for the cable to hook to.  If I remember
right, theres just a little piece that bolts up with the tranny pan that
keeps the cable in place, and that's all it is, but it's still a helpful
piece.  While your there, don't forget about grabbing that steering
column, so you don't have to worry about the bump in the old column
(where the column shifter "plugs in!"  That is also a key factor in
successful vs. cheesy floor shift swaps.
     Oh, and pop the trunk, just in case there might still be T-Top bags
in there!  That's how I got mine, and I remember a big discussion over
these hard to find items earlier...
     Good luck, and have fun!


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:09:18 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

 I can usually tell when one gonna give
>up, cuz the interior lights at night are not as bright...then a week or
2 >later the batt. light is on! i've also replaced the tensioner! mabe
just to >much heat build or something that keep blowin out the
diode/rectifier!

What kind of load are you putting on it?  ie. stock vehicle, or 10000
watt stereo system with six sets of driving and fog lights, etc.  Is
there maybe a drain on the battery making the alternator work overtime?
Do you do much jump starting with the car?

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: My little olds expense list

>Do you really think Gr. 8 bolts are necessary.  If he is lifting with
0.25" >hardware a Gr. 3 (sort of the base standard, non junk hardware;
and usually >about 1/4th the price of Gr. 8) has a shear of about 3000#,
and with 3/8" it >goes to about 6600#.  Even imported, junk absolutely
base Gr. 1 bolts will >be in the 2000# (1/4") to 4000# (3/8) range each. >
>Gr. 8 does have the advantage of bringing these figures to about 6800
for >the 1/4", and 15,000# for the 3/8s. One Gr. 8 x 1/4" bolt will lift
two >442's with driver before failing. > >When you consider that you can
just about lift an entire Cutlass before even >(1 ea 1/4") junker Gr. 1
will shear, you have maybe suggested a bit of >overkill, when one
considers the excess cost of Gr. 8 hardware.

Then again, I think we're dealing with two different types of shearing
force, too.  the axial force (which would stretch out the bolt and break
it) is the figures to which you're referring here.  Radial stress on the
other hand, I'm quite certain, is much weaker.  In other words, they'll
bend alot easier than they'll stretch.  I've seen many engines mounted
to stands using bent bolts (which ~do~ work all right, but...) and I've
bent many bolts doing engine swaps.  I'd say it really boils down to how
much faith you have in this lower grade equipment.  Sure, a 1/4" grade 1
may be able to lift a Cutlass and driver without breaking, but I
wouldn't want to be the driver, and I don't think you'd want to try it
with your Cutlass.  I'd certainly hope you wouldn't want to walk under
the now-elevated car.  It would make a difference with the piece of mind
in knowing that your fasteners WILL NOT FAIL, vs. the feeling that they
~should work~ OK.  For whoever it was that had the engine hoist fall on
him, this should ring in close to home.
     Now, like I said, its a question of what your comfortable with.  If
you can get away with cheaper stuff, and do it safely, then feel free.
If you find yourself doing many swaps, however, the extra quality is
well worth the investment, after replacing five sets of bent bolts, it
doesn't seem that steep...  About the time you're asked to R&R the
engine on that 4 Speed '68 H/O, you'll really appreciate the piece of
mind in ~knowing~! You'd probably feel pretty rough dropping an engine
on a one of a kind car.  But in that light, why would it be any
different for your own car?
     But still, like I said, it's whatever you're most comfortable with.
My last swap I used a nylon motorcycle tie-down, with a hook in the #1
and #8 exhaust ports, and it worked great (mostly complete 425,
brackets, starter, carb, fuelpump, etc.) but I wouldn't want to rely on
that same strap too many times, although I imagine it'd be just fine, I
just don't ~KNOW~ about it...  Anyway, enough for now...

          Two more cents from:

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:03:16 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

jev114@email.psu.edu wrote:
>
> it's definately a juice thing...i'll be out in it sometimes runnin it
> hard sometimes not and the battery light comes on indicating no
> charging! i've changed the battery several times. I can usually tell
> when one gonna give up, cuz the interior lights at night are not as
> bright...then a week or 2 later the batt. light is on! i've also
> replaced the tensioner! mabe just to much heat build or something that
 > keep blowin out the diode/rectifier!

Jeff,

Maybe.  Since you haven't said you've had any other electrical problems
we'll stick with the alternator itself for the time being.  (You don't
have one of those 2000 watt subwoofers, do you?)

The only way to know for sure what's going out would be to disassaemble
the alternator.  As Cliff pointed out, a typical car wouldn't go past 5K
 and putting around under 3500 is probably the norm.  *IF* you're not
having a problem with the bearings, my guess would be the commutator is
overheating and getting fried by the high revs.  Again, a postmortum
would be the only way to tell for sure.  I'd see if you could take the
next DOA over to a local shop that rebuild these things and have them do
 the autopsy.

Cliff also mentions using a larger pully to reduce the rotational speed
of the alternator.  Sounds like a plan.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mike <h07@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:44:51 -0400
Subject: NHRA Starfires (was: possible home? (was: 455 rebuild costs))

>>The engine has recently been removed and is
>>now sitting in my garage waiting for a vehicle to be dropped into.
>>Anyone have any ideas as to a suitable vehicle, I plan on bracket
racing it and >>would like to have something a little bit different. >
>Ooh, Ooh, Ooooh.  One word "Starfire!"  (Will it fit?)  The thought of
an >engine weighing twice as much as the car it's going into brings
music to my >ears, ~especially~ when the words chevy and nova aren't
mentioned!  :)

Warren Johnson and Dave Smith both ran Starfires in NHRA Pro Stock in
the late 70's and early 80's.  Dave Smith used a '70 350, which ran a
8.73 @ 156 on it's first official outing at the 1979 NHRA
Winternationals.  That's about all I know about these cars.  Does anyone
out there have any information on these cars, or references?

In particular, I would like to find out what years WJ ran a Starfire,
his best ET in a Starfire, and how many Manufactures Championships he
won in a Starfire?

Thank you in advance

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:45:39 -0400
Subject: 66-70 cutlass

Anyone have a line on 66-70 cutlass convertible. A friend is interested
in A bodies. He won't care about a 442 and wants to get into it for
say $3,000-4,500. Just a plain cutlass or supreme convertible would fit
the bill here, I think. We're looking for a solid driver, reliable and
roadworthy but neither perfect nor foul.

Probably best to reply privately. Oh, a Buick A-body convertible would
qualify here too.
thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:45:36 -0400
Subject: 70 Rotors

Do any of you all know where I can find new or good used 69-70
front disc brake rotors. I've been working off junkyard luck
and thought you'd be a good group to ask.

agreeing with Joe Pavadano on safety over originality,
cf

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:50:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Barnstormers--Me too!

buehner wrote:
>
> >I feel compelled to share my story.
>  <snip>
>
> I guess I have to share my "one that got away" too...  About a year
ago, a > friend wanted me to help him find a car like mine (mid 80's
Cutlass)


Anyone,

I just saw in the Birmingham Post that someone had a 1970 Olds Cutlass
convertible; buckets, console, 12 bolt rear, good floors & trunk - needs
motor - $1400.  205/647-7396.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:07:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

Brad Bowles wrote:
>
> I am getting a certific from the DMV here in CA that states that
> because I have the OAI hood, I do not need the NOX device.  I have a
'70 > 442 and the Ram Air came stock, but I got the car and it also has
the > NOX device.  I heard through the mail, that with the Ram Air that
you > don't have to have this smog device! >         I still have the
TVS device on my car and I need that too to > pass smog.  But If you
remember, Smog pumps wern't necessary (or > installed) in '70 and 71!
So much for buying a car that is '65 or > older! >         There is hope
for us in California!!! > Brad > '70 442 (almost smogless!)

Brad
     I am getting ready to move to CA, and would like to bring my '68
442 with a 455 out there but I don't know if it will pass the inspection
regs. out there.  Can you tell me who I could call to see what the regs.
are, maybe a inspection staation or do you know how stock a 68 has to be
 to pass?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Chris M.
'68 442
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: Bim Lodivinci <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:17:49 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

At 06:09 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
> I can usually tell when one gonna give
>>up, cuz the interior lights at night are not as bright...then a week
or 2 >>later the batt. light is on! i've also replaced the tensioner!
mabe just to >>much heat build or something that keep blowin out the
diode/rectifier! > >What kind of load are you putting on it?  ie. stock
vehicle, or 10000 watt >stereo system with six sets of driving and fog
lights, etc.  Is there maybe >a drain on the battery making the
alternator work overtime?  Do you do much >jump starting with the car? >
 > Not much of a load at all...no driving lights, no AC, Stock
stereo... stock everything for that matter. i'll have to check around
for a bigger alternator pulley, but the one on there is fairly big now!
it's a 100 amp alternator! i have blown a few bearing out, but other
times it appears that the bearing is in tact! Also have to look for a
superduty bearing!

Thanks for your help

Jeff ME@PSU

------------------------------

From: Bim Lodivinci <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:20:03 -0400
Subject: 455 in 79 olds suspension!

I put olds diesel spring s in the front of mine and they raise the front
end back up to where it should be...about $100!

Jeff ME@PSU

------------------------------

From: Bim Lodivinci <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:26:35 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

At 09:03 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>jev114@email.psu.edu wrote:
>>
>> it's definately a juice thing...i'll be out in it sometimes runnin it
 >> hard sometimes not and the battery light comes on indicating no >>
charging! i've changed the battery several times. I can usually tell >>
when one gonna give up, cuz the interior lights at night are not as >>
bright...then a week or 2 later the batt. light is on! i've also >>
replaced the tensioner! mabe just to much heat build or something that
>> keep blowin out the diode/rectifier! > >Jeff, > >Maybe.  Since you
haven't said you've had any other electrical problems >we'll stick with
the alternator itself for the time being.  (You don't >have one of
those 2000 watt subwoofers, do you?) > >The only way to know for sure
what's going out would be to disassaemble >the alternator.  As Cliff
pointed out, a typical car wouldn't go past 5K >and putting around
under 3500 is probably the norm.  *IF* you're not >having a problem
with the bearings, my guess would be the commutator is >overheating and
getting fried by the high revs.  Again, a postmortum >would be the only
way to tell for sure.  I'd see if you could take the >next DOA over to
a local shop that rebuild these things and have them do >the autopsy. >

Not the guy with all the stereo jazz that strolls through the parking
lots! that rules out that...from my point of view it seems to be a
little of both the bearing and the commutator! it is usually clear when
the bearing goes, cuz you can hear a god awful noise and the fan cuts
away the aluminum housing away as the shaft goes on a bind!

To much fun for me!
Jeff

------------------------------

From: Brad Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:16:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

At 11:07 PM 11/23/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Brad Bowles wrote:
>>
>> I am getting a certific from the DMV here in CA that states that
>> because I have the OAI hood, I do not need the NOX device.  I have a
'70 >> 442 and the Ram Air came stock, but I got the car and it also has
the >> NOX device.  I heard through the mail, that with the Ram Air that
you >> don't have to have this smog device! >>         I still have the
TVS device on my car and I need that too to >> pass smog.  But If you
remember, Smog pumps wern't necessary (or >> installed) in '70 and 71!
So much for buying a car that is '65 or >> older! >>         There is
hope for us in California!!! >> Brad >> '70 442 (almost smogless!) >
>Brad >     I am getting ready to move to CA, and would like to bring my
'68 >442 with a 455 out there but I don't know if it will pass the
inspection >regs. out there.  Can you tell me who I could call to see
what the regs. >are, maybe a inspection staation or do you know how
stock a 68 has to be >to pass?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!! >
>Chris M. >'68 442 >cya442@erols.com


Chris,

The car must pass two inspections - 1)visual  2)emissions.

Visual -
They visually inspect the car to verify that it has the following items
as originally equipped: 1) PCV system 2) Carburetor 3) Thermostatic air
system (the tube from the exhaust manifold shroud to the air cleaner) 4)
An aftermarket NOX device (They have never required me to have this.
They said if I was selling the car they would probably require it)

Emissions-
They'll insert emission sensors into both taipipes and measure the
following: 1) HC (hydrocarbons) - 500 parts per million allowed 2)
Carbon Monoxide - 5.5 % allowed These are the allowable limits on on my
'69 442 which should have the same standard as a '68 since they use the
same motor.  A properly tuned 400 or 455 should pass these tests with
flying colors.  The standards are pretty leanient.

Brad Otto
'69 442 convertible
Modesto, CA

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:34:46 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

Bim Lodivinci wrote:
>
> cuz you can hear a god awful noise and the fan cuts away the aluminum
> housing away as the shaft goes on a bind!

Ech!  That sounds painful...

The 66 Toro and MIke


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:16:21 -0400
Subject: re: ALTERNATOR mystery

>Scholar wrote:
>>
>> Now mind you the car has just over 170K, and up to this point i've
>> replaced many alternators...i lost count some where around 10. I
>> 've had the thing tested at the alternator shop several times and
>> nothing...now what could be causing all this? Mind you this car is
>> run up to 7000 rpm daily. the original one lasted till 105K.
>
>What's going wrong with them?  They stop putting out juice or the
>bearing

Are you getting the Quad4 specific alternators for your car, or the
generics?  The quad4 74 amp  one has a p/n of 22551517 and I have the
juicier one on the car, (100 amp, I think) with a p/n of 10463206.  I
have a H.O. Quad, that revs even higher than yours, soa alternator
for a H.O. may help you out. They are designed to handle the high
revs, but I doubt the quality on any  of them.  I got a GM
remanufactured one that went south after 25k,  and the original
lasted about 75k.  I frequently see the above 7k RPM mark, so I give
them the same beating....

I am usually able to keep the guage in the normal range with my 380
watt amp (to piss off people in other cars when ~their mirror shakes)
and the driving lights (to piss off the others....;-)

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:28:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 70 Rotors

At 06:45 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Do any of you all know where I can find new or good used 69-70
>front disc brake rotors. I've been working off junkyard luck
>and thought you'd be a good group to ask.
>
>agreeing with Joe Pavadano on safety over originality,
>cf
>
>
You know, so do I.

Do you really think the four piston disc brakes were less "SAFE" than
the later single piston unit?

They would stop my 1968 Corvette from well in excess of 125 mpg to 0
with no disconcerting effects.  It weighed in in excess of 4000# road
ready, and moving.

Cliff Feiler
Curious

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:35:43 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

At 07:17 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 06:09 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:


>Not much of a load at all...no driving lights, no AC, Stock stereo...
>stock everything for that matter. i'll have to check around for a
>bigger alternator pulley, but the one on there is fairly big now!
>it's a 100 amp alternator! i have blown a few bearing out, but
>other times it appears that the bearing is in tact! Also have
>to look for a superduty bearing!
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>Jeff ME@PSU
>

Hi Jeff,

You are going to be well disapointed in your quest for a superduty
bearing! There isn't any such thing.  There are various degrees of
precision in bearing manufacture, but none of them will stand being over
loaded.

The precision requirements come about by the fact it takes a bearing of
greater precision in the headstock of a screwmachine making watch
screws, than it does in end of an alternator.

If you want your alternator to live, reduce the load, which is simple to
do; just slow it down.

A typical GM application DELCO alternator has about a 3" pulley. If you
go all the way to a 6" pulley you will reduce the speed to half.

Also the fact that yo've gone to a 100 amp alternator makes little
difference with the overspeed problem.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:39:58 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

At 11:34 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Bim Lodivinci wrote:
>>
>> cuz you can hear a god awful noise and the fan cuts away the aluminum
>> housing away as the shaft goes on a bind!
>
>Ech!  That sounds painful...
>
>The 66 Toro and MIke
>
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
Now that's music to my ears.

Thomas A. Edison, III
Acme Alternator and Incandescent bulb rebuilders

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:57:36 -0400
Subject: Brass (was Re: Counting Dollars)

At 04:20 AM 11/23/96 -0400, Sparky wrote:

>I don't understand why Brass? Brass oxidizes/pits too!
<Snip>
>I work with brass very often. It only lasts if it is lacquered!
Otherwise it >gets a patina. Beyond that, its soft (relatively
speaking). <Snip> >If brass is so good why don't thay make exhaust
pipes and brake lines out of >it! NOT!! >Brass is good stuff, don't get
me wrong, but not the best alloy (copper & >zink) for this job.

Exactly.  Brass is an amphoteric metal.  These types of metals corrode
at both high and low pH's thus being a poor choice for brake lines or
anything in contact with the brake fluid.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:13:55 -0400
Subject: 455? Vista Cruiser

HI!
 Just wondering if ALL 69 VCs came with 455ci? Or were they available
with 350s? I have found out where the original engine is and the thought
occurred to me that it could be a 350 and not a 455ci...has 350 Chev
now...gotta go...
  Also my signal lites do not work...the emergency flashers do..and
there is no indication in the dash/speedo when I select either L or R.
Any ideas where to go first?
 Carpet for my VC...where? Black..
Ineresting day working on the VC today..took frnt wheels and drums
off..big on nails down here for cotter pins...shoes linings are cracked
from excess heat... found shims MISSING from alignment adjustment of
upper control arm...and a 1/2 inch gap..sway bar ends shot..shocks no
better..wondering why it wallows through the corners..hmmmmmm...bit
better now..but a long way to go..
  Well..I must go for a cruise...later! Blair and his VC in Ecuador.....



------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:33:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

At 08:16 PM 11/23/96 -0400, Brad Otto wrote:

>The car must pass two inspections - 1)visual  2)emissions.
>
>Visual -
>They visually inspect the car to verify that it has the following items
as >originally equipped: >1) PCV system >2) Carburetor >3) Thermostatic
air system (the tube from the exhaust manifold shroud to the >air
cleaner) >4) An aftermarket NOX device (They have never required me to
have this. They >said if I was selling the car they would probably
require it) > >Emissions- >They'll insert emission sensors into both
taipipes and measure the following: >1) HC (hydrocarbons) - 500 parts
per million allowed >2) Carbon Monoxide - 5.5 % allowed >These are the
allowable limits on on my '69 442 which should have the same >standard
as a '68 since they use the same motor.  A properly tuned 400 or >455
should pass these tests with flying colors.  The standards are pretty
>leanient.

Here in B.C.(Canada) on a car of this era, the criteria is much more
lax. There is no visual inspection for PCV, Carb, Thermostatic air
system, or NOX device.  The emissions are also much easier to pass.  HC
- 1500 ppm allowed, CO - 5.5% allowed. I just got Collector plates now
on my car and it is completely exempt from this whole
emissions-$18-tax-grab-thing.  Never again do I have to tune and retune
the car just to pass and then tune it back again to drive it.  The other
benefit is that my insurance only costs a third of regular insurance
with these plates. So my advice is move to Canada where some government
standard isn't choking your car's performance potential and where high
toxic emission spewing is allowed ;')... then again you'll pay over 40%
income tax and 7% sales tax and 7% Goods and Service tax and.... ahh,
just stay where you are.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:57:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 455? Vista Cruiser

> From: Blair Rendell <brendell@ECNET.ec>
>  Just wondering if ALL 69 VCs came with 455ci? Or were they available
with 350s?
> I have found out where the original engine is and the thought occurred
to me > that it could be a 350 and not a 455ci...has 350 Chev
now...gotta go...


Well, Blair ...

My info (69 Service manual) lists 3 possible engines for the 69 Vista
Cruiser:

Standard:
- -350 cid., 9.00 compression ratio, 2 barrel carb,
- -code QI with standard transmission
- -code QA with automatic transmission (No A/C)
- -code QB with automatic transmission (With A/C)

Optional:
- -350 cid., 10.25 compression ratio, 4 barrel carb
- -code QV with standard transmission
- -code QN with automatic transmission (No A/C)
- -code QP with automatic transmission (With A/C)

Also optional:
- -400 cid., 10.25 compression ratio, 4 barrel carb.
- -code QR with automatic transmission (No A/C)
- -code QS with automatic transmission (With A/C)

This suggests that a 455 was never an option for the VC ...

from a fellow ex-patriate Newfoundlander ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:23:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

Brad Otto wrote:
>
> At 11:07 PM 11/23/96 +0000, you wrote:
> >Brad Bowles wrote:
> >>
> >> I am getting a certific from the DMV here in CA that states that
> >> because I have the OAI hood, I do not need the NOX device.  I have
a '70 > >> 442 and the Ram Air came stock, but I got the car and it also
has the > >> NOX device.  I heard through the mail, that with the Ram
Air that you > >> don't have to have this smog device! > >>         I
still have the TVS device on my car and I need that too to > >> pass
smog.  But If you remember, Smog pumps wern't necessary (or > >>
installed) in '70 and 71!  So much for buying a car that is '65 or > >>
older! > >>         There is hope for us in California!!! > >> Brad > >>
'70 442 (almost smogless!) > > > >Brad > >     I am getting ready to
move to CA, and would like to bring my '68 > >442 with a 455 out there
but I don't know if it will pass the inspection > >regs. out there.  Can
you tell me who I could call to see what the regs. > >are, maybe a
inspection staation or do you know how stock a 68 has to be > >to pass?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!! > > > >Chris M. > >'68 442 >
>cya442@erols.com > > Chris, > > The car must pass two inspections -
1)visual  2)emissions. > > Visual - > They visually inspect the car to
verify that it has the following items as > originally equipped: > 1)
PCV system > 2) Carburetor > 3) Thermostatic air system (the tube from
the exhaust manifold shroud to the > air cleaner) > 4) An aftermarket
NOX device (They have never required me to have this. They > said if I
was selling the car they would probably require it) > > Emissions- >
They'll insert emission sensors into both taipipes and measure the
following: > 1) HC (hydrocarbons) - 500 parts per million allowed > 2)
Carbon Monoxide - 5.5 % allowed > These are the allowable limits on on
my '69 442 which should have the same > standard as a '68 since they use
the same motor.  A properly tuned 400 or > 455 should pass these tests
with flying colors.  The standards are pretty > leanient. > > Brad Otto >
'69 442 convertible > Modesto, CA

Brad
  Hey, I appreciate the info.  Thanks

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: "Loyd Bonecutter" <loydb@enteract.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:33:52 -0400
Subject: Single piston floating caliper disk brake units

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com on Sat, 23 Nov 1996 wrote:

>     Apparently, GM learned from the four-piston caliper fiasco.  For
those
>    who haven't had them apart, the single-piston calipers (69-72+)
have <snip

>    I always upgrade to the later single-piston
>    floating units (safety over originality any day).

I have noted with GM floating disk brake calipers, the inside pads wear
much faster, than the outer ones, due to the caliper not floating,
particulary on cars that sit a lot.

Does anybody on the list have sugguestions on rebuilding and/or periodic
maintenance techniques that may keep these otherwise very reliable units
working correctly ?

Loyd Bonecutter <loydb@enteract.com>
86 Oldsmobile Powered G-Body

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:30:01 -0400
Subject: (RE) Re: W-30 Intake or not?and headers

In a message dated 96-11-23 01:47:38 EST, you write:

<< Unsolved Mystery:  I've got an intake that's got "Olds 455" written
 between the carburetor and the thermostat housing.  It's aluminum.  Is
 this a W-30 intake?

 thanks,
 Luke
  >>
Luke, the intake sounds like a W-30 intake from 71-72.  On the underside
there should be a date stamped on the intake.  If you decide to sell it,
I would like it for my 72 442 W-30.  Im missing the original drivetrain.
So I have got the 455 with Ga heads but I need the intake.  I got the
carb and distributor as well. As for Headers, Hooker supercomp 1 and 7/8
headers will go on without moving your brake lines.  They cost about
319.00 from Super shops. add another 180.00 for ceramic coating.  These
headers are of top quality and goes by the old addage "You get what you
pay for".

Thanks and Regards
W MACHINES(Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: <ljbeck1@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:56:35 -0400
Subject: Another Newbie

Hi fellow Olds Fans,

I just found out about this list.  I'm happy to see that such a list
exists for my favorite GM brand!

I've owned several Oldsmobiles through the years.  My finest was a 1972
98 Regency 4-door hardtop.  Apparently, this model was very limited
production for 1972, though it became a regular production model in
later years.

My car was gold in color
with a black vinyl top and black velour interior.  It had a 455 with
factory dual exhausts & also a traction-lock differential.  Wish I still
had this car!

I'm looking forward to seeing the discussions on this list.

Bye,
Drew

------------------------------

From: GALINDO REBECCA R <GAL9914@cup.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:06:19 -0400
Subject: fastest olds

So who has teh fast olds on the list?
let's see some times here!

Curious

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:05:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Newbie

> Hi fellow Olds Fans,
> I've owned several Oldsmobiles through the years.  My finest was a
1972 98 > Regency 4-door hardtop.  Apparently, this model was very
limited production > for 1972, though it became a regular production
model in later years. > > My car was gold in color ... > Bye, > Drew

Hi Drew ... welcome aboard

If you had a 72 Ninety-Eight Regency, yes it was the first year of the
"Regency" designation.  It was introduced as a mid-year model as a
commemeration of Oldsmobiles 75th anniversary.  I don't have numbers,
but there were probably only a few thousand made.  Yup, too bad you
don't still have it, but I think we've all let some good cars get away
from us ...

Enjoy the list ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:20:33 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

137.34 MPH, 11.67 E.T.	

------------------------------

From: Scholar <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 00:34:24 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

At 12:20 AM 11/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>137.34 MPH, 11.67 E.T.	
>
Top that one!!!

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:44:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Single piston floating caliper disk brake units

At 11:33 PM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com on Sat, 23 Nov 1996 wrote:
>
>>     Apparently, GM learned from the four-piston caliper fiasco.  For
>those
>>    who haven't had them apart, the single-piston calipers (69-72+)
have ><snip > >>    I always upgrade to the later single-piston >>
floating units (safety over originality any day). > >I have noted
with GM floating disk brake calipers, the inside pads wear >much faster,
than the outer ones, due to the caliper not floating, >particulary on
cars that sit a lot. > >Does anybody on the list have sugguestions on
rebuilding and/or periodic >maintenance techniques that may keep these
otherwise very reliable units >working correctly ? > >Loyd Bonecutter
<loydb@enteract.com> >86 Oldsmobile Powered G-Body >

FWIW: One of my uncles had a 1979 Chevrolet with the usual single
caliber disc brakes.  His car sat a lot, as he was retired, and elderly.
He was about 30 minutes (highway) from his house, but only 5 from where
I was working.  He called and asked me to help him, as his brakes were
acting funny.  I had him wait where he was.

When I got there, the brake warning light was lit, and he did indeed
have some sort of brake trouble.  I nursed his car to his house, on city
streets, keeping the speed at a minimum.  The car still had rear brakes,
but the fronts were useless.  To add to the perplexity he had had the
brake pads and rear shoes replaced less than a year before, and only
3000 on the car since.

AT his house he has a rear entrance garage, and a 20x20 asphalt pad in
front.  I left the car 1/2 way in the garage, raised the front end, put
it on jack stands, and removed the front brakes, hubs, etc.

The inside pad on the drivers side was completely gone, the metal pad
backing plate was worn to about 2/3ards thickness, and the entire side
of the rotor was worn out COMPLETELY, so that the pad plate was now
rubbing on the cooling vanes.  The brakes finally failed when there was
insufficient thickness on this offending pad to work the brakes at all.
I was totally dumbfounded by how worn out this was, and in a mere 3000
miles.

Mr. Goodwrench happened by work, and I discussed this with him, and he
said that unbalanced, even sever unbalanced pad wear was not unusual.
He suggested changing the hoses.  He explained lining in the hoses comes
loose, and when it does, it squeezes on the contents of the hose, they
will not let the pressure on the pads release.  (Too bad this set of
brakes didn't have an air bubble!).

So single piston disc brakes are not perfect either.

I got a new set of pads, a new rotor, and reinstalled the brakes which
then worked fine.  Later he contracted diabetes and had a foot removed,
at which time he gave me this car.  I played with it for a while, and
then aquired my '84 Delta.  The Chevy was drowned in the great flood of
'92, and went the way of ...

Nuf said, and a tip about single piston disc brakes.

Cliff Feiler
Accomplished seer, with 20/20 hindsight.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

At 12:06 AM 11/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>So who has teh fast olds on the list?
>let's see some times here!
>
>Curious
>
The Wiz has a vairly nice Oldsmobile Patrican Sedan that the police
insist be moved every day, or it will be ticketed.  Today it moved about
1/4" in less than ten seconds.  And that was without the engine running.
It also made it from Niagara Falls, NY to Saint Louis in about 20 hours
driving time, but then also without the engine running.

It may not be fast but it gets very good fuel economy.

The Wiz

P.S. I have no idea how fast my '84 Delta will go, as it continues to
accelerate well past the time the  speedomoter has reached its dead end.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Newbie

At 12:05 AM 11/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> Hi fellow Olds Fans,
>> I've owned several Oldsmobiles through the years.  My finest was a
1972 >98 >> Regency 4-door hardtop.  Apparently, this model was very
limited >production >> for 1972, though it became a regular production
model in later years. >> >> My car was gold in color ... >> Bye, >>
Drew > >Hi Drew ... welcome aboard > >If you had a 72 Ninety-Eight
Regency, yes it was the first year of the >"Regency" designation.  It
was introduced as a mid-year model as a >commemeration of Oldsmobiles
75th anniversary.  I don't have numbers, but >there were probably only a
few thousand made.  Yup, too bad you don't still >have it, but I think
we've all let some good cars get away from us ... > >Enjoy the list ... >
>Graham Stewart >Toronto, Canada >graham.stewart@utoronto.ca > Everyone
that got their complimentary copy of "Setting the Pace" knows by now
that there were 2650 of them, everyone else may guess.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:54:33 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

At 12:34 AM 11/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 12:20 AM 11/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>137.34 MPH, 11.67 E.T.	
>>
>Top that one!!!
>
>
I'm sorry I don't really care for Spehlberg(sp) movies, much less 11.67
of them.

Anon.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:00:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Guy

I would call the DMV in California - a local number here is
(714)528-3416 and ASK!  I register our fleet at work and this has been
my understanding of the regs so far:   the car has to have what was on
it from the factory.  Now, to bring a car INTO Calif. is $300 smog
impact fee.  If the car came from NY and had no equipment, then if I'm
not mistaken you would have to get the "over $500 to repair"
waiver/exemption.


For certain, I know you'll have to pay the smog impact & I know your
supposed to have the stock equip, on the car.  As for waivers, its my
understanding its given an exemption if repairs exceed $500.  As for any
other hidden clauses, I couldn t be certain (and/or haven t run into any
others to date).


Good luck




Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: oldsman <oldsman@innercite.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:39:16 -0400
Subject: W27 option

Was this option just an aluminum cover or was the center section
 of the differential housing also aluminum?

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:07:40 -0400
Subject: Re: W27 option

At 06:39 PM 11/18/95 -0500, you wrote:
>Was this option just an aluminum cover or was the center section
> of the differential housing also aluminum?

Center section and the cover were aluminum in 1970, though the axle
tubes were steel.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:44:19 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

Not much of a load at all...no driving lights, no AC, Stock stereo...
>stock everything for that matter. i'll have to check around for a
>bigger alternator pulley, but the one on there is fairly big now!
>it's a 100 amp alternator! i have blown a few bearing out, but
>other times it appears that the bearing is in tact! Also have
>to look for a superduty bearing!

May also try checking all your connections.  Something simple like a bad
ground at the battery can make the alternator work overtime, although in
this case I'd say it'd have to be fairly severe...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:44:22 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

>Bim Lodivinci wrote:
>>
>> cuz you can hear a god awful noise and the fan cuts away the aluminum
>> housing away as the shaft goes on a bind!
>
>Ech!  That sounds painful...
>
Yeah, now that you mention it, that sound reminds me of the sound my
(ex) roommate's '89 CS made when his alternator went on vacation.  It
blew out the casing right around the back bearing, and made very
unpleasant sounds as a result.  He, however, ~was~ the one you'd hear
pounding through all the parking lots, etc.  He hasn't had a repeat
performance yet, and I don't think that car sees the back side of the
tach very often, so I don't know if there's any correlation whatsoever
to the problems at hand, but it ~was~ a really obnoxious sound!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:58:29 -0400
Subject: re: ALTERNATOR mystery

I got a GM
>remanufactured one that went south after 25k,  and the original
>lasted about 75k.

     No, Bill, I don't think this is an Alabama flame ;)

>I am usually able to keep the guage in the normal range with my 380
>watt amp (to piss off people in other cars when ~their mirror shakes)
>and the driving lights (to piss off the others....;-)

     Yeah, on that note, I'm starting to question the theory of
overrevving these bearings.  These alternators are (as far as I'm aware)
constructed very similarly to their predecessors, which we all know so
well.  I know I've sent mine past 8K (engine) several times, and it
never so much as cried once.  (The belt wimperred a little, and the
valves put up a fight after a while, but the alternator just kept
running around...)  It's not uncommon for modern 4 bangers to go upwards
of 8 grand, so I would well imagine that they should be designed to
handle that.  I think their must be something else going on down there.
Perhaps something as basic as getting poor replacements, to something
gremlin-related lurking under the hood, waiting to strike next time you
hit a water puddle after midnight... :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

>
>So who has the fastest olds on the list?
>let's see some times here!
>
>Curious

0 to 160 in 15!!!    (OK, OK, degrees and minutes!)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 05:00:20 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

>137.34 MPH, 11.67 E.T.	
>
>

Tell us more, O fast but anonymous one...  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:35:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 455? Vista Cruiser

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Blair Rendell wrote:
>  Just wondering if ALL 69 VCs came with 455ci? Or were they available
with 350s? > I have found out where the original engine is and the
thought occurred to me > that it could be a 350 and not a 455ci...has
350 Chev now...gotta go...

No 455 available in '69, but that doesn't mean one wouldn't fit in there
 just fine... and if you're gonna get rid of that SBC *anyways*... ;-)

>   Also my signal lites do not work...the emergency flashers do..and
there is > no indication in the dash/speedo when I select either L or R.
Any ideas > where to go first?

Hmmm... suppose the cheapest place to start would be with the flasher
itself... and/or the fuse for that circuit. If that doesn't do anything,
 then check out the connector for the turn signal switch (a curved
connector at the base of the steering column). Hope it isn't the signal
switch itself, mounted in the steering column. They are a bear to
replace.

>  Carpet for my VC...where? Black..

Dunno if anyone makes a complete VC set (I doubt it) but it shouldn't be
 too hard to take a front (and maybe even rear) molded carpet from a
Cutlass hardtop for the passenger areas - available from any of the
catalog places - and get some of the same material in bulk from the
supplier (even places like J.C. Whitney sell the bulk carpet too) and
tailor it yourself for the cargo area.

> Ineresting day working on the VC today..took frnt wheels and drums
off..big > on nails down here for cotter pins...shoes linings are
cracked from excess > heat... > found shims MISSING from alignment
adjustment of upper control arm...and a > 1/2 inch gap..sway bar ends
shot..shocks no better..wondering why it wallows > through the
corners..hmmmmmm...bit better now..but a long way to go.. >   Well..I
must go for a cruise...later! Blair and his VC in Ecuador.....

Be careful on those winding mountain roads... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: <ljbeck1@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:52:15 -0400
Subject: 400 C.I. V8 in 1975???

Hi,

I found reference in a 1975 sales brochure to a 400 cubic inch V8
available for large Oldsmoblies, in place of the standard 455 V8 (some
kind of fuel economy option, I would guess).  Anyway, does anyone know
who made this engine?  I know Olds had their own 400 V8 up until 1970,
but was the 1975 engine from Pontiac, or <<shudder>> Chevy?  I've never
seen an 88 or 98 of this vintage with a 400, so I haven't had the
opportunity to figure it out for myself.

Thanks,
Drew

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:51:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Newbie

ljbeck1@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
>
> Hi fellow Olds Fans,
>
> I just found out about this list.  I'm happy to see that such a list
exists > for my favorite GM brand! > > I've owned several Oldsmobiles
through the years.  My finest was a 1972 98 > Regency 4-door hardtop.
Apparently, this model was very limited production > for 1972, though it
became a regular production model in later years. > > My car was gold
in color > with a black vinyl top and black velour interior.  It had a
455 with factory > dual exhausts & also a traction-lock differential.
Wish I still had this > car! > > I'm looking forward to seeing the
discussions on this list. > > Bye, > Drew

Drew,

Welcome.  We need a few big Olds guys & gals here.  It seems that
Toronados are ruling the world (taking over, that is).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:09:41 -0400
Subject: Re: ALTERNATOR mystery

buehner wrote:
>
> I got a GM
> >remanufactured one that went south after 25k,  and the original
> >lasted about 75k.
>
>      No, Bill, I don't think this is an Alabama flame ;)
>
>
>       Charley Buehner


Charley,

Hey, I understand the 'went South" thing.  We actually have truckloads
of Chevy stuff & other old broken parts shipped here daily.  It isn't
even safe on the roads any more for all the parts falling off overladen
trucks everywhere.  We'll probably start charging an environmental
impact fee for all you Yankees soon.  Watch for it.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:53:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Spare parts/won't start

At 06:12 11/22/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>The biggest enemy of a car sitting for a long (more than a month, but
less >than a few years) period of time is moisture. You may flat-spot an
older set >of bias-ply tires as well (otherwise, jackstands are not
necessary). There >are two things affected by moisture: your engine and
your interior.

Maybe I will roll it back and forth every once and a while.

>For your engine, simply cover up the openings. On a car I stored, I
used a >baggie held over the opening with a rubber band.

Is this to keep bugs and other vermin out? Or is it for moisture?

>If your paint isn't new, however, I'd just recommend laying a tarp
>right on the car, and tucking it in all around so it doesn't blow away
in a >Nor'easter.

I will be getting a new paint job sometime in the future,so a tarp wil
do just fine for now. > >Would it die when you released the ignition key
from the start position? >Then it would be your resistor wire to the
distributor. If it ran at all >after you released the key, then it is a
fuel supply problem, quite possibly >a fuel pump, clogged filter or low
float level (i.e. you're running out of gas).

It would run after I let go of the key,but only until the fluid ran
out.I filled the tank this summer and haven't driven it for long,so
there is enough gas.It would seem that the filter or the pump would be
the next place to look. Thanks for your help.
        I think that you were looking for some fenders,right? Any luck
finding them yet? Let me know if you still need anything and I can look
next time I go the the yard in Wallingford. Talk to ya later...

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: oldsman <oldsman@innercite.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 05:59:15 -0400
Subject: 455 running hot

I own two 442's, A 1970 and A 1971.  Both cars will run hot in the
summer time when tempetures get to 98 to 108 degrees. Both cars have
factory four core radiators,A 50% coolant concentration, correct water
pumps for axle and engine combinations. The 70 has A 3:42 and the 71
has A 3:23 axle.  The radiators are clear, I pulled the tanks on both
ends myself to verify that ALL tubes were clear.
   My problem comes in when I'm driveing freeway speeds 60 to 70 mph.
air conditioning on.  It takes about 40 minutes of driveing to get the
engine temp to just under the boiling point.  The problem comes in when
I have to slow down to very low speeds,(stuck in traffic-pull into
parking lots),the coolant boils.
   I have used high piched fan blades and non thermal lock up fan
cluthes. The a.c. condensor is clean and all factory shrouds are in
place. The engines are in good mechanical condition. I rebuilt the
engines myself,blocks were hot tanked all water jackets are clean. The
engines were built back to factory specs. std. bores.
   If I reduce speeds down to 45 to 55 mph the engine will cool down
within 10 to 15 minutes and all is ok. The 3:23 axle car will last
longer than the 3:42 axle car.
   I have tried to keep these cars as they were from the factory.  This
running hot situation has got me baffled. When temps cool down to lower
90's no problems. The axle ratio seems to be the problem.  The higher
the ratio the more intense the problem gets.
   Any ideas as to where I am overlooking the problem?

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:42:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 71-72 Parts

John,
	who are you directing your message to. There's a few of us here with
71-72 parts. If it's my message about the '72 Cutlass Supreme then I
will have to tell you to hold on for a few days as I am just negotating
the entire car. Soon I will be letting everyone know what the car
entails in more detail. BTW the interior is white and the dash is black
in very good condition thus far.

For the rest of you that had responded with request please hold and I
will let you know individually as to the parts you requested.

Fernando



jmartin@ny.frontiercomm.net wrote:
>
> Hi,
>   My name is John Martin and I am Looking for a lot of 1971parts , how
doese the Dash > look on this car ? >                        write
soon!!!

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:49:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>...
> I picked it up today. Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a
provincial > inspection that was due and a trans fluid and filter change
that I > couldn't be bothered to do myself) totalled just over $600.
Ouch! Now you > know why I don't want to add this stuff up! > > Greg
Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Greg,
	sorry to hear that but brakes are essential. I'm sure it's good money
spent. However, $600 of which probably $300 in labour would of bought
you some nice tools instead. Are you not inclined to do your own work,
especially, brakes, there not to difficult?

Fernando

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:54:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

Fernando Proietto wrote:
>
> Greg,
> sorry to hear that but brakes are essential. I'm sure it's good money
> spent. However, $600 of which probably $300 in labour would of bought
> you some nice tools instead. Are you not inclined to do your own work,
> especially, brakes, there not to difficult?

> > Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                And no garage. ...Eh?
The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 running hot

oldsman wrote:
>..
>    Any ideas as to where I am overlooking the problem?

Well, you covered quite a few bases here and the only one that comes to
mind would be your timing. Check to see that your timing is not set too
far advanced or to far retarded. Also check to see that the vaccum
advanced is working properly. Timing plays an important role with your
cooling system.

Also one thing that has come up in the past is the water pump. One
fellow eported the same problem you are having and it turned out to be
his water pump. The impeller was installed backards and was not allowing
the water to circulate properly. When that was fixed no more over
heating. In your case the probability that both of you cars have the
water pump problem is somewhat unlikely but none the less a possibility.

Just a curious thought, did your parents really name you 'oldsman' or
are you just as fanatic about oldsmobiles as we are?

Fernando
a.k.a. '72442man'

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:10:20 -0400
Subject: Winter Storage Question

Hey all,

I have my 80 442 up for the winter in my garage and have a few
questions. Should it be put on jackstands to avoid hurting the tires? If
the tires sit still for 4 months won't it put alot of stress on the one
area touching the ground? What about the oil, antifreeze? Change it,
drain it, or what? I have the battery unhooked to avoid the clock
running it down. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4,
G92(3.23), PEG2 a real muscle car...bone stock! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30 (
Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in reality)..a pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds
W-25.....restoration project that is currently up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:10:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 400 C.I. V8 in 1975???

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 ljbeck1@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I found reference in a 1975 sales brochure to a 400 cubic inch V8
available > for large Oldsmoblies, in place of the standard 455 V8 (some
kind of fuel > economy option, I would guess).  Anyway, does anyone know
who made this > engine?  I know Olds had their own 400 V8 up until 1970,
but was the 1975 > engine from Pontiac, or <<shudder>> Chevy?  I've
never seen an 88 or 98 of > this vintage with a 400, so I haven't had
the opportunity to figure it out > for myself.

Drew,

I think engine was made by Oldsmobile.  Olds didn't start secretly
sticking Chevy engines into its cars until later in the decade.  The 455
 was the standard engine in the '75 Custom Cruiser, Ninety-Eight, and
Toronado.  The 400 was a lower cost alternative option in the Custom
Cruiser and Ninety-Eight.  The 455 was the only engine available in the
Toro.

The 350 was the standard engine in the Cutlass Cruiser/Vista Cruiser,
Delta 88, and Delta 88 Royale.  The 400 was not the standard engine in
anything.  It was an option in the Delta 88 and higher lines, although
my experience has been like yours in that I've never
seen nor heard of any '75 Delta 88 that didn't have either the 350 or
455. The 260 V-8 was standard in '75 Cutlass Salon, and the 350 and 455
were options.  The 250 L-6 was standard in the '75 Cutlass Supreme,
with the 260, 350, and 455 V-8s all as options.  Ditto for the Cutlass
S and base Cutlass. The Omega could have been had with the 250 L-6 as
standard, and either the 260 or 350 V-8s as options.  Finally, the
subcompact Olds Starfire for '75 came only with a 231 cubic inch V-6.
There were no other engine options for the Starfire, and I don't know
if Olds made this engine.


Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:10:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 200 4R Transmission

I agree.  Good transmission specialists are hard to find.  Even good
companies are hard to find.  I tried a B&M shift kit in my '87 200-4R
but it was miserable.  I ended up designing my own using some of the
parts and the transmission shifts great.  Ever since it was new, the
transmission had a firm 1-2 shift at part throttel but a very slow
sliding shift at full throttle.  I talked to the product engineer a few
times at Three Rivers, and he stated that Oldsmobile requested ALL
200-4R's for 1987 be softened on the 1-2 shift.  He stated that they did
not want to change the KZF (442 tranny) but Oldsmobile insisted.  That
is why it shifts so sloppy.
     Yes, the 200C and 200-4R are hardly at all related except in #
only.  I stated some of the differences in a previous post. I have a
1984 Buick LeSabre Limited with a Olds 307 - Vin Y.  It came from the
factory with a 200C transmission.  It grenaded 3 times, all under
warranty.  I will eventually put a 200-4R in it.   Follow the
recommendations in my previous posts and the one from Loyd and you can
build a solid 200-4R to handle almost anything.

Steve Ochs - Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission Division
(4T60/65-E) 1987 Olds 442 1976 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:10:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Transmission question

Nice engine for your Custom Cruiser.  Yes, the stock 200-4R will
probably not hold up.  The 400 will not fit wihtout some modifications
to fram cross memebers.  Also, the drive shaft and yoke would have to be
replaced (different number of spline teeth).  Your overdrive is still
working.  4th gear is strictly hydraulic.  The only thing that the wires
control is the torque converter lockup.  I would stick with the 200-4R
because of the overdrive and it won't require any mods to driveshaft and
frame.  The 200-4R can easily be built to handle 400 hp with some simple
changes - hardened stator support, kevlar band, 10 vane pump, etc.  You
have a very good core to work with (post 1985).  It would cost about the
same as a good 400 and I think would be much better overall.  If you had
a more potent engine and were planning on towing a lot, then the 400
might make sense.  Check out Loyd Bonecutter's post on the subject and
also the Turbo Regal page  for where good 200-4R's are built.  If you
know of a good tranny rebuiler, they can do the same job.  Good luck and
let me know what you decide.

Steve Ochs - Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission Division
(4T60/65-E) 1987 Olds 442 1976 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:05:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 400 C.I. V8 in 1975???

At 08:52 AM 11/24/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I found reference in a 1975 sales brochure to a 400 cubic inch V8
available >for large Oldsmoblies, in place of the standard 455 V8 (some
kind of fuel >economy option, I would guess).  Anyway, does anyone know
who made this >engine?  I know Olds had their own 400 V8 up until 1970,
but was the 1975 >engine from Pontiac, or <<shudder>> Chevy?  I've never
seen an 88 or 98 of >this vintage with a 400, so I haven't had the
opportunity to figure it out >for myself.

That must be a Pontiac engine; no other maker kept a "small" big-block
after 1970. I doubt it was the Chevy. What car was it an option on? All
B- and C-bodies? I really had thought the engine swapping didn't begin
wholeheartedly until the downsized 1977 models.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: jmartin@ny.frontiercomm.net
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:11:43 -0400
Subject: RE: Re: 71-72 Parts

HI,
  Soon as you can Get a list together please let me know.
thanks.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #379
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