To:	Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US
cc:	 
From:	gbbea000 @ mail.cycor.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/27/96 04:15:13 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #342


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 25 October 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 342


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:54:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 or 6 speed for 68 455??

In a message dated 96-10-23 17:38:09 EDT, you write:

> 1970 442 455 3.91 gears
>
>  To make ZF 6-speed transmission to fit, the following modifications
were > made: > -snip- >At 60 mph the engine is now turning 1,600 rpm
instead of a previous 3,100 rpm >all this with at 3.91 ratio.
Acceleration is greatly improved and the gas >mileage has improved.

>Mike

Now this is what I mean, I new somebody must have tried this before, and
because I'm a member on this awesome list, here it is, I get the whole
thing handed to me on a plate. This is great! Mike, thanks so much for
your detailed response, you're really gonna save me a lot of time and
effort on this one. I'll be contacting you privately in the future for
more details and questions.

And when I have it installed, with the great (not, but better!) gas
mileage I'll be getting, I'll have to drive it all over to show everyone
in person on the list! (Finland is a bit far though! ...and cold!)

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:00:13 -0300
Subject: 200-4R length vs 400 (was 700 vs 6spd)

>Yes, a 200-4R will bolt up just fine (done it), but it's the same
>lenght as a TH-400.   Thankfully, old Olds' have the frame drilled for
>just about any tranny imagineable...   It DOES however use a TH-350
>driveshaft yoke.

NO!!!!  The 200-4R is the same length as the 350!  I am positive... I
just replaced the 400 in my 79 Olds with a TH-2004R.

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show
86 442 -> Summer Driver
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Mark Samaniego <marks@IntNet.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:12:12 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #341

> From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:01:13 -0300
> Subject: Olds 307 buildup
>
> I own a 84 Cutlass Calais with a stock 307 and a 350 Turbo Trans with
> TCI Saturday Nite Special and TCI shift kit.  It has the stock 7.5
> inch rearend with the doggy 2.14 gear ratio.  I was wondering what I

I had this rear end in my Olds-powered 86 Buick Regal. I have the 307 as
well. The motor is getty a slight bit tired, but runs great all in all.
I replaced the 2.14 Posi rear end with a junkyard 3.23 Posi out of a
Century Station wagon. Cost me $65.00, including new seal, lube and posi
additive. I don't know how the TH350 will do, but mine has the 200C in
it, and at 55 the RPM's a a bit high. I plan on rebuilding a 200R4 and
replacing the one in it. The current wimpy 200C has been pulling a
3500Lb boat (Yes, the trailer has brakes) for over a year and is tired.
After replacing the rear-end, I noticed a LOT more low end, though still
a slow car overall. We only have 140Hp to work with. :) Also, remember
that these are HEAVY cars, and need a decent amount of power to move
them, even into the 15's. I have heard here and there that the first
thing you should replace on the motor is the heads, as they are very
restrictive. If I was going to go all the way down to the heads, I would
pull it and put a Rocket 350 in if you are serious.


> close to full rich throughout much of the RPM range and it idles
> quite rough despite the fact that it has been rebuilt.  I would like

Is rich good?


Did you get the *carb* rebuilt? Mine has 122,000 on it and the carb has
never been opened. Though, of late it has been rough idling in the
morning, I plan on getting mine rebuilt as soon as I can. Pretty complex
carbs.. Almost the last ones..

>mation on a computer chip for it or should I just save my money
> and go with a 350 or 403?

See above..

Mark S.

86 Buick Regal Limited V8 	(Olds Powered)
86 Regal Regal T-Type V6 	(Turbo Buick Powered)

marks@intnet.net

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:23:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 700-R4 vs. 6 speed

>
>
>On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:
>
>> BOP.  The 200-4R will bolt up with no problem and is the same size as
a 350, > >    Yes, a 200-4R will bolt up just fine (done it),

>  It DOES however use a TH-350
>driveshaft yoke.
That's interesting.  The yoke from what I thought was a TH-400 trans fit
my 200-4R.  Looks like the trans that was originally in my Vista-Cruiser
was actually a TH-375.  The pan and valvebody look just like a 400
allthough the engine in the car is a 350 2bbl.  I'll bet it is a 375
since it was behind the "little" motor in a relatively large car.  The
thing was still bulletproof.  I swear it had a switch-pitch converter
too, it stalled at about 3200 rpm and the car allways felt like it
shifted 3 times.  I figured the third was the converter leveling off.
Does anyone know if a switch-pitch was availible for a 375?

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: arthur hoffmann <oldsctls@nji.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:42:31 -0300
Subject: moldings, carbs

I have a 67 cutlass convertible.  Not a Supreme or a 442, just a plain
cutlass.  The I bought it from the 2nd owner a couple of years ago, and
one of the first things was to rebuild the 330 motor.  We bored it .030
over to accomodate larger pistons, but it's still running the original
2bbl carb.  I've heard all different kinds of theories on the advantages
 of changing to a 4bbl setup.  I now have the extra cash to do this.
Any ideas, suggestions?

Also. what is the correct lower-body chrome trim for this car?

thanks,
art

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:12:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Is the BB Olds lighter than BB Chevy

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Jason Labay wrote:

>
> Finally someone that sees my point. I do not understand all the Chevy
> bashing either. It is cannibalism, tearing apart big brother. I mean
after > all shouldn't Oldsmobile be thankful to Chevy it is still in
existence? I > thought I remember Chevy wanting to pull the plug on the
division. Sure I > like Chevy but I like Oldsmobile and their engines
just as much if not more. > On other GM lists there is no where the
extent of sister bashing as there is > here. Most of it is directed to
F@rd, and the M@par crowd. Ok , so on the > count of three we all say,
"sorry sister" :) :) :) Lets have fun here guys > and gals. > - - - - -
- - - - - - > Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) > Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University > 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance > 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html > > Actually I don't think anyone should
be "bashing" any American car make!!! Come on folks, they all put out
something good at one point and many of them are still today...

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:49:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 81-88 Cutlass differences (Re: header panel)

>The body styles from 81 to 88 are identical with very few/minor
differences. > The grills for 81-86 are the same size and are
interchangeable but vary in >style.  87 and 88 header panels are the
same and will fit on 81-86 models. > The connection to the headlights
will probably be different because the >87/88 models use an encapsulated
headlight.  So if you are pulling the header >from a donor, grab the
connectors.  FYI -> As for tail lights, 81-83 use the >same tail light
(the ones with the strip in the middle) and 84-88 are the >same (the
ones with the rockets in the middle).

I have an 83 and an 84 Cutlass header panels still on the car if you
need any parts or want one of them? - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay
Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration
graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it
in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30....
see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:55:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Identifying a 68 W-30


>From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:08:58 -0300
>Subject: Re:Help please

>Hi,
>     Has anyone deciphered my engine numbers?  Do any of these numbers
indicate
>a W30.  I need to know for insurance purposes.

>Chris>

Chris,
I'm not strong on '68 facts, but a '68 W30 had the under-bumper air
induction scoops with a corresponding dual snorkel air cleaner.  I don't
 think they had the red inner fenders.

     Actually, the 68 W-30 _does_ have red fenderwells (only other use
     of the red fenderwells for that year was the Hurst/Olds).  Even
     if the air cleaner is missing, the fenderwells should have a four
     inch diameter hole cut in the horizontal surface of the inner
     fender directly behind the head lights on each side for the
     ducting to the under-the-bunper scoops.  Typically this hole will
     have a rough edge which makes it look like a custom job.

Check the FAQ section of www.442.com for any info available on
heads/intake mani.

     Heads on an original 68 W-30 will have a raised letter "D" next
     to the number one and number 8 spark plugs.  Intake will be cast
     iron Q-jet pattern.

The best thing you can buy is a '68 shop manual.  This will list all of
the codes for things like the distributor and carb, which helps you
authenticate/maintain your car.

     Good suggestion.  Among other items, all W-30s had the Rally Pac as

     standard equipment and either a Muncie 4 spd or a specially
calibrated
     TH400.  All 68 W-30s had manual brakes, as the cam was considered
not
     to generate enough engine vacuum to operate the power booster.  A
posi
     rear end was also standard.  These last items were also optional on

     non-W-30 442s and Cutlasses, so their existance doesn't prove that
the
     car _is_ a W-30, however the lack of these items makes it almost
     certain that the car is _not_ a W-30.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 03:51:29 -0300
Subject: Re: followup on vibration -Reply

 But you have
>every right to bring your own parts and have them installed.  There's
no >rule that says you can't.  And besides, it'll save you a bundle!

     Careful, tho', cuz there is a flipside to this arguement.  I blew
out the clutch on my EXP a while back (ford :( )  so I went to the parts
store and orderred the disk, pilot  bushing, throwout bearing, etc.  I
decided I didn't want any part of the project, (fwd and all, ya know) so
I drug it to the tranny shop, along with the box of new parts.  They
yanked it apart and threw the new ones in there, and got it together,
but it didn't work. They'd given me (and I'd subsequently given them)
the wrong parts.  Soooo, I got charged extra labor to do the job twice
(cuz if they bought the stuff, they'd have bought the second job.)
Ouch, I said, among other things. Another thing to consider, is that
some places get the parts at a substantial discount, and then charge you
roughly retail, which is likely what you'd pay anyway.  I had the
suspension done on the Rockit a few years back, and the installed price
on the springs (front) was less than my retail price would have been.
Of course I ~never~ pay retail, but I hate suspension and tranny work :(

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:22:58 -0300
Subject: Re: followup on vibration -Reply

buehner wrote:

>Careful, tho', cuz there is a flipside to this arguement.

Chuck,

You betch ya!

> Soooo, I got charged extra labor to do the job twice (cuz if they
bought the stuff, > they'd have bought the second job.)

I will make this a brief as possible (if thats possible).  (:

I have been getting my parts from the same place for about 10 years now.
(And I mean
when I walk in the door, all parts books are whipped open to 1966 Olds
Toronado before I
can even say hi!!) I have been for years getting my parts at wholesale
and have become pretty good buddies with these guys. If you may recall
from an anchient post of mine from last year, I said that I
occasionally drop off a case of beer, give extra Miller 200 tickets,
race car frequencies, ect ect to the fellas from time to time. This
helps when I run into a situation like occured with your F&@d.

I have an agreement with them (probably the companies policy for all I
know) that if the part is defective or incorrect, they will pay for the
labor to re-install the correct (undefective) part.

This happened to me with a water pump (of all things) for a 66 Toro last
year. I bought
it from them, put it on, only to find out some dork pressed the bearing
on crooked and it wobbled like warped frisbee! Since I was leaving to
go to Indy for the 500 the next day, and didn't have time to change it
out myself, they said to go to a garage and have it done. They would
pay for the labor and changout! COOL! End of story!

But, on the other hand, I ordered a left front flex line for a 67 Toro
last month, get the whole deal apart (50 miles from home at the shop)
to find it was MADE incorrectly by Bendix!!  AAARRGGHHHH! Now what! The
cars half apart, its Sunday, and there I sit!

I go back and all I got was alot of head scratching!!! Beacuse I did it
myself, there
really was no recourse. If my usuall mechanic had done it, there would
have been different results I'm sure.

Is there a moral to this story!  YUPPER!!!!

ALWAYS TAKE THE PART WITH YOU (if you can) when you get the new one!
Match em up and get a consensus from the parts guy! Is this gonna
fit??? If he says "YES" and it don't, I'm comming back loaded for bear!


My guys are 95% accurate with thier parts (pretty good considering they
were born the year the car was made!

Sorry this got long......

Sparky


- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:17:50 -0300
Subject: Re: moldings, carbs

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, arthur hoffmann wrote:
> one of the first things was to rebuild the 330 motor.  We bored it
.030 > over to accomodate larger pistons, but it's still running the
original > 2bbl carb.  I've heard all different kinds of theories on
the advantages > of changing to a 4bbl setup.  I now have the extra
cash to do this.  Any > ideas, suggestions?

I did this on my '68 this summer. I'm glad I did. I had all sorts of
trouble getting the 2-bbl to work right so that had a lot to do with it,
 and we took the opportunity while the intake was off to change the
lifters. Then the mitaswells got to us a little so we pulled the front
off the engine and changed the water pump, timing set and cam too. Oh
well... :)

Having said all that I like the 4-bbl a lot better. It just seems to
work a whole lot better than the 2-bbl ever did (both were rebuilt so
that ought not to be a factor) and it gives a noticeable increase in
power. How much of that is due to the cam change is hard to say but it
seems that it's effect is mostly at the midrange and top end.

I would do it again, but with a couple of cautions. Make sure you have
everything you need first. I changed over to a factory 4-bbl setup so it
took a few months to gather all the bits and pieces - brackets, throttle
cables, bolts, air cleaner, etc. I was surprised how well it all came
together, but it still took the better part of 2 days to do all this so
if you are doing it yourself be prepared for that. If you're getting
someone to do it I think the labor might be expensive.

Good luck!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:28:57 -0300
Subject: Reminder - Postings & Etiquette

Folks,

This is not directed at anyone in particular but it seems time for a
friendly reminder about thinking twice before you post here.

I've seen a lot of stuff the last few days sent to the list that should
have been sent privately. If it's directed at one individual, send it to
 them, not to all of us please. The same with pics or other large files
- the list just can't handle them. Please take a look at the welcome
message you got when you subscribed - you all still have it, don't you?
:-) - if you're at all unsure about what is and isn't appropriate. If
you'd like another copy of it, let me know and I'll be pleased to send
it along.

BTW, just as a general note, if anyone has any questions about anything
to do with thie list, feel free to email me directly. Don't be
embarrassed if you think it might be a silly question - everyone was new
here once!

Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:00:17 -0300
Subject: Re: moldings, carbs

art - I installed a 65  330 motor in my 72 cutlass. It originally had a
two bbl carb on it. The two bbl was great for low end torque. The
factory books I looked at said the two bbl was rated at 275 hp. I wanted
more, so I put a 4bbl on it without changing the cam, it performed well,
but not as a 4bbl should. I then installed a schneider racing cam with
about a 500 lift, 282 / 292 duration with 110 degree lobe separation.
Now it performs better than many stock applications. Headers also help.
The cam had to be custom ground because the valvetrain geometry is
different on the 330 than it is on the 350.  I can't remember exactly,
but I think that the 330 has a 45 degree boss angle whereas the 350 has
a 39 degree boss angle. Schneider Racing cams is located in San Diego,
Ca. Don't know their number, but ir is listed in the phone book/
directory assistance. Btw, the 330, 4bbl is rated at 325 hp. I'm
figuring approx 340 - 350 hp on my motor, now. Still is slow off the
line, so a stall convertor will be added in the future. It also eats
th350 trannies, so I plan an upgrade to a th400.

Katana72   It's NOT your daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!!!!!!         Hastings,
MN

PS: my 0-60 times are at 6.1 secs, 1/4 mile is at 13.7 secs at 110 mph

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:13:34 -0300
Subject: Mondello address?

I noticed this on the 442.com web page and realized I've never seen one!

Mondello Performance Parts for Olds Catalog

Anyone have their email or web or snail address? Thanks

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:36:37 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

I sed:
> >I think that was the same car Mel Gibson drove in 'The Road Warrior'
-- and, > >it was super-charged!! :)

R.I. Bob sed:
>
> That was actually an extensively customized Australian F*rd Falcon
(after > they went to a bodyshell unique to F*rd of Australia). The
Rover car was > actually a Leyland (hey, remember _that_ name?)

Oh yeah, I remember it well -- it appeared on the bottom of all my old
Matchbox cars! :)



Tim (Who Wisely Saved Many of His Old Matchbox and Hot Wheels Cars)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:39:16 -0300
Subject: RE: Ok, so what's the MPG on a 350 Cutlass

> >Hi again. I appreciated all the responses to my last question, and
now I > >have another: what's the average gas mileage for a '70 350
Cutlass auto? I > >presently don't own a Cutlass, but I'm looking for a
'68-72 Cutlass, so I > >want to know what kind of gas mileage the
engines get. Oh, one more > >question: about how much more horsepower
did the W-30 package add? >

With the '73 350 currently residing in the engine bay of Big Red, I
don't measure gas consumption in m.p.g. so much; as with other boats, I
measure it in hours :)

I get about 3.5 - 4.5 hours per tank.



Tim (I Don't Park, I Moor) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:48:28 -0300
Subject: Re: moldings, carbs

> I have a 67 cutlass convertible.  Not a Supreme or a 442, just a plain
 > cutlass.  The I bought it from the 2nd owner a couple of years ago,
and > one of the first things was to rebuild the 330 motor.  We bored
it .030 > over to accomodate larger pistons, but it's still running the
original > 2bbl carb.  I've heard all different kinds of theories on
the advantages > of changing to a 4bbl setup.  I now have the extra
cash to do this.  Any > ideas, suggestions?

Any 4 BBL Olds SB intake will fit, and Edelbrock has a nice aluminum
aftermarket unit as well -- I have a new one sittin' in a box in my
garage for the 330 I've got on a stand to complete it's rebuild.

You also have many options open to you for 4 BBL carbs.. there are those
here who would suggest a factory Q-Jet, others who like Holleys and
Edelbrocks. All have their advantages & disadvantages.

Be prepared for a reduction in mileage (I know, I'll heare differing
opinions on this! :) ).  *My* experience -- and there have been several
cases -- whenever I had barrels, I decrease mileage.  End of story.

>
> Also. what is the correct lower-body chrome trim for this car?

Not entirely sure if the 'plain' C has the same lower chrome trim as my
CS - -- but there's a guy who I've seen driving about every now and
again with a '67 plain Cutlass ragtop; next time I see him and/or the
car, I'll ask and/or inspect the car.

Will keep y'all posted!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:54:33 -0300
Subject: Typo (was Re: moldings, carbs)

I sed:
> Be prepared for a reduction in mileage (I know, I'll heare differing
opinions > on this! :) ).  *My* experience -- and there have been
several cases -- whenever > I had barrels, I decrease mileage.  End of
story.
    ^^^
Sorry all, fat-fingered it (or was that fat-heading it? :))

I meant to say whenver I *added* barrels...

Oh well.



Tim (Timing and Spelling are Everything) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:07:24 -0300
Subject: More on 215-- maybe last!  LONG!!!

The 215 grew out of the early '60's gas crunch.  Up until this time, the
 american car market had consisted of big cars with big motors that ate
 lots'a gas mostly.  The Buick Special in particular, as well as some
other cars, and the Oldsmobile Jetfire and F-85 used a version of the
motor with one extra head bolt-- will still bolt to a later Rover block,
 but with one extra hole.  Not too long after the motor was created
though, gas became plentiful again.  You all remember the late '60's,
early '70's, "Why build a 215 when you can build a 455?"  It was the
dawning of the age of muscle cars.  At this same time, across the pond,
the brits were just beginning to turn away from the famous 4 cylinders.
 They were selling off their designs and tooling, left and right, to
the japanese.  The only new motors that the brits seemed to have
produced, though, were those HEAVY I-6 motors.  They attempted a V8
with the Triumph Stag, but due to poor design, the motor was plagued by
mechanical failure (a Triumph having mechanical trouble, Never :-)   ).
GM, still having fun with the 455/403/350/etc. decided that it had no
use for the 215 design, and therefore, sold the rights, and design to
the very willing, British Leyland (Rover/Jaguar/Triumph).  The 215 was
redesigned from an investment casting to a sand cast aluminum block
making it slightly heavier, but it is said to be less prone to
cracking, and better at vibration dampening.  Basic dimensions remained
the same:  bore, stroke, bearing sizes, distance between bores, etc.
US 215 manifolds still fit the 3.5l blocks as do all of the original
215 aftermarket upgrades.  Mickey Thompson used the 215 block along
with his own forged crank and aluminum pistons to make an off road race
engine.  The crank was 3.5" stroke, quite a bit larger than the 2.8"
stock one still used to power the Rover 215.  This brought the cid up
to a 250 that had a higher lift higher rev cam. and Mallory Dual point
ignition.  Buick, having had given up the 215, recast the block as a
cast iron version:  the Buick 300.  Slightly taller and larger bore,
but the same bore to bore and bearing placement.  This engine was
equipped with a 3.4" stroke crank that had larger bearings and a
different rear seal assembly.  This makes the crank a 1/2 inch or inch
longer out the back side and the flywheel bolt pattern different.  Many
articles have been written on installing this crank into the 215 case
to get the 215's light package with the increased stroke and
displacement of the 300's crank.  It does, however, require engine rear
seal remachine, crank grinding, and some funny business to get a manual
tranny to bolt up.  This is one thing to remeber with the american
blocks too, the brits had a 5 speed Borg-Warner tranny that they put
behind the motors stock.  This was a good tranny, that should have no
problems holding up behind a built 215.  This, put in a Jetfire or
F-85, might be able to solve those famous "slushbox" problems.  Just
when you thought that nothing else could be done to this poor block,
Volvo (yes family sedan/wagon people) valves, it was descovered, would
fit to 310 (?) Aluminum heads to increase flow.  Also, Chevy Carrera
rods (300, 310, 340) were quite a bit stronger than any of the others,
stronger even than M. Thompson's box welded rods.  About this time,
Buick (omigod, back to Buick again) wanting smaller more fuel efficient
cars, decides the need a new powerplant.  They wanted something light,
so they went back to those same 215 bore dimensions.  In today's world,
V8 = gas hog in the minds of the general populous so they made it a V-6
(and you wonder why the 3.8 liters won't idle smooth).  The front
covers of these motors will still mate up with the old 215's and the
Rover blocks.  There have been some motors in England, that have been
bored and stroked to an amazing 4.5 to 5.0 liters through the use of the
 factory crank from a diesel Rover know as the Tundra something or
other. Now then, does this not sound fun to you, an Olds F-85, with
the aluminum Rover 3.5 liter block, bored to 3.8 liters, stroked from
2.8" to 3.5" using a Mickey Thompson crank, Big aluminum head via Buick
300 etc. Volvo oversize valves, a 3.8 liter front case w/ HEI ignition
and still able to hang a serpentine belt with all accessories on it,
and bolted up to a Borg/Warner 5 speed tranny.  :-)))))))  (big smile)
Sorry for the length, hope I didn't get too involved

Thanks to Kurt Horton (khorton@deming.mdc.com) for help with some of the
 information.

PS.  There are 2 books available on the Rover (and therefore the Buick
and Oldsmobile 215 V8's)
"The Rover V8 Engine" and
"Tuning (british word for building) Rover V8 Engines"
both are available from:
Haynes Publications Inc.
861 Lawrence Drive
Newbury Park, CA 91320

Again, sorry for the super long somewhat off-topic (but mostly on topic)
 posting.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

Feel free to disagree,
Or to correct me,
But don't flame me.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:15:27 -0300
Subject: Reply-To in Digest

Re. the messages yesterday about people being able to reply to the
address for the digest rather than the list itself... I can't understand
 how they are doing that. I get a digest myself and even if I try to
reply to it, the reply is automatically addressed to "Oldsmobile", not
"Oldsmobile-digest". The only way I can send a message to the digest
address is to specify that address myself by typing or cut-and-paste.

My contact at CCN has also checked it out and the config for the digest
hasn't changed internally either. So until I get more info to the
contrary, I'm saying that things are working OK at this end. Digest
members, just make sure that your replies are:

a) only including the relevant quoted text, not the whole digest
(arrgh!), and

b) addressed to "oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca", not the digest address.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:57:27 -0300
Subject: Re: your mail

Scott Mullen wrote:

> I'm not strong on '68 facts, but a '68 W30 had the under-bumper air
> induction scoops with a corresponding dual snorkel air cleaner.  I
don't > think they had the red inner fenders.  Check the FAQ section of
www.442.com > for any info available on heads/intake mani.  The best
thing you can buy is > a '68 shop manual.  This will list all of the
codes for things like the > distributor and carb, which helps you
authenticate/maintain your car.

Thank Scott.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:11:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Identifying a 68 W-30

Joe writes:

>      Actually, the 68 W-30 _does_ have red fenderwells (only other use
 >      of the red fenderwells for that year was the Hurst/Olds).  Even
 >      if the air cleaner is missing, the fenderwells should have a
four >      inch diameter hole cut in the horizontal surface of the
inner >      fender directly behind the head lights on each side for
the >      ducting to the under-the-bunper scoops.  Typically this hole
will >      have a rough edge which makes it look like a custom job. > >
Check the FAQ section of www.442.com for any info available on
heads/intake > mani. > >      Heads on an original 68 W-30 will have
a raised letter "D" next >      to the number one and number 8 spark
plugs.  Intake will be cast >      iron Q-jet pattern. > > The best
thing you can buy is a '68 shop manual.  This will list all of the >
codes for things like the distributor and carb, which helps you >
authenticate/maintain your car. > >      Good suggestion.  Among other
items, all W-30s had the Rally Pac as >      standard equipment and
either a Muncie 4 spd or a specially calibrated >      TH400.  All 68
W-30s had manual brakes, as the cam was considered not >      to
generate enough engine vacuum to operate the power booster.  A posi >
rear end was also standard.  These last items were also optional on >
non-W-30 442s and Cutlasses, so their existance doesn't prove that the >
car _is_ a W-30, however the lack of these items makes it almost >
certain that the car is _not_ a W-30.

Thanks Joe!

Chris

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:23:48 -0300
Subject: '87 Olds CS TH200-4R

Hey, does anybody know exactly what you would do to "BEEF UP" my 200-4R?
I'm looking to put in a 350 one of these days and I want my tranny to be
able to handle any of the horsepower and torque I throw at it. Also,
does anybody know if I put in a ford 9" rear end, will this screw up my
transmission like it is now for some reason? Thanks for all the replies
on my other questions!

Andy
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
 '87 Olds Cutlass Supreme
 '88 Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
 '74 Delta 88 convertible rocket (my dad's)

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:48:24 -0300
Subject: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

Hi,

I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for a
new one will probably help? Take the cap off to fuel up and you can hear
a large hisser emanating from the tank. When I start the car with 1/4
tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?) from the tank. Never
mind the jokes... Joanne

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:03:44 -0300
Subject: Re: That car. :)

That would most likely be a nice '65 425 (an "A" block, "A" heads,
forged crank).  Someone grab it for $150 including pull!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -----------
Well, after further examination, I have determined that the car is
basically junk.  I talked to albert, and he said that the motor and
transmission are still good, and he can sell those, but the title for
the car was lost, so he can't sell the complete unit.  The car is a '65,
(he said), so maybe the motor is still worth the $150 he wants for it.
He'll even pull it out! :)

- -Shane
This message sent from The Net BBS 608-221-5702.
Telnet address: bbs.madnet.com

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:12:46 -0300
Subject: Re: '71 Paint Code?

I have the Sherwin Williams 1971 color manual, and Sterling silver is as
 follows: Paint code 13 acrylic lacquer L11  3127 acrylic enamel
J5-3904 enamel          J3-3904 code 13; 905 chip No.        2G

There is no ditzler number in this book. As you're probably aware, the
color was also offered on Chev., Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, and
Corvette. Of course, the color had different names.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 05:13:08 -0300
Subject: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

     I just checked and you're right.  I never noticed that they were
     plumbed into the heads before.  That certainly makes finding
headers
     much easier.  Now I have to wonder why the Heddman headers are
     emissions legal and the Hooker headers are not for my car?  Maybe
     Hooker just didn't bother with certification.  Anyways, what would
be
     the impact of disabling the A.I.R. (by removing the belt) on my
     computer controlled 307.  I don't have to pass a visual emissions
     inspection.

     Is the O2 sensor expecting to see this additional air pumped in,
and
     will not doing that throw my computer controlled mixture off?  The
     additional O2 pumped in would make the sensor read leaner than it
     actually was, so by removing the extra O2 would the engine run
leaner?

     In addition to taking up some HP (I know they don't take much) and
     adding a bit of rotational mass to the drivetrain, the A.I.R. pump
is
     sort of loud.  It makes a cheezy putt-putt sound that has no
business
     being under the hood of a car with a V8.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: CA smog laws Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/13/96 9:52 PM

     Interestingly enough, Olds V-8s actually have the A.I.R. fittings
     plumbed into the exhaust ports of the cylinder head, thus negating
the
     rationale for restricting the use of headers on A.I.R. equipped
cars
     anyways!  (Don't expect this logic to work with an emissions

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:36:11 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

Daniel Houlton wrote:
>The lockup can still be used, you just have to
>  turn it on and off with a toggle switch.( You have to release the
lockup >  just like a regular clutch when you bring the car to a stop.
Believe me, >  the car will try and shake apart if you don't, it's not
pretty.)

In the 200-4R, the hydraulic circuit is set up so that the hydraulic
pressure is removed automatically from the lockup circuit in first gear.
If you were to leave the switch on, the converter will unlock upon
downshift to first gear and then lockup upon upshift to second gear (bog
bog bog).  This at least eliminates the stalling that many transmissions
cause when then lockup solenoid fails on. Most vehicles the car can't be
drive but the 200-4R allows you to get home.


Steve - Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission Div.
1987 Olds 442
1976 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:40:37 -0300
Subject: A.I.R

Hey,
     I have an '87 Cutlass Supreme that is computer controlled and the
belt going to my A.I.R pump has been off for some time now. Actually I
think the thing is frozen up. But getting to your question, so far it
hasn't affected anything yet. (I don't think) My car isn't running lean
at all. Actually its running really rich but I think my carb is the
cause of that. When I tool it to my mechanic he said that I didn't have
to worry about it. I don't know how true that is but she(my car) hasn't
failed yet.

Andy
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
 '87 Cutlass Supreme
 '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
 '74 Delta 88 convertible rocket

P.S. The '88 I have has that pump hooked up and I think that cheesy
noise is
     enough reason to rip that belt off!

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:56:00 -0300
Subject: the Rallye 350 F85 Post Coupe

Finally spoke with the Rallye 350 guy last nite. Cool guy, has three
Cutlasses: the 70 R350 (thinks it's a 442), a 69 (Teal Blue- nice!),
another 70 F85.

The OAI hood and deck wing trunk lid from the R350 are currently
residing on the other 70, prolly not available. :^(

He told me how the car was turned into a tubbed NHRA-spec racer (knew
that), had been converted to Ch*vy-power (knew that), *but* has original
12b Olds posi rear end. Original 350 (w/ BV W31 6 heads) & trans long
gone. :^(

He said he'd give asking $ some thought. Chris Witt and I plan to go see
the car on Saturday while he's up visiting.

Figure this thing is worth grabbing even tho it's tubbed & far gone-
those nice endura bumpers alone are worth a fortune, wouldthink. Not to
mention the OAI aircleaner! Waddya all think a good price'd be for the
rolling chassis?

- -Darren Shroeger

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:28:15 -0300
Subject: Re: the Rallye 350 F85 Post Coupe

     Darren,

     If you pick this up and are parting it out, I have a friend with a
'70
     Rallye 350 also who is in dire need of the OAI aircleaner to
complete
     his otherwise original car.  He knows they're expensive and will
pay a
     fair market price.

     Thanks!

     Tom.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: the Rallye 350 F85 Post Coupe
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/24/96 9:20 AM


Finally spoke with the Rallye 350 guy last nite. Cool guy, has three
Cutlasses: the 70 R350 (thinks it's a 442), a 69 (Teal Blue- nice!),
another 70 F85.

Figure this thing is worth grabbing even tho it's tubbed & far gone-
those nice endura bumpers alone are worth a fortune, wouldthink. Not to
mention the OAI aircleaner! Waddya all think a good price'd be for the
rolling chassis?


------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:03:45 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

Maybe an interesting side note about AIR equipped engines.  If the motor
sounds like its got bad lifters or a knock on acceleration, you might
want to check the AIR pipes for holes.  I could swear the wagon's 307
was going to blow.  As part of a visual inspection, for some reason I
decided to run my fingers underneath the AIR pipes, and found a couple
of rust holes.  New pipe, no noise!  Then again, if the lifters are 
bad too . . .

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------------
     In addition to taking up some HP (I know they don't take much) and
     adding a bit of rotational mass to the drivetrain, the A.I.R. pump
is
     sort of loud.  It makes a cheezy putt-putt sound that has no
business
     being under the hood of a car with a V8.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: Jan Malone <chickey1@fidnet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:48:36 -0300
Subject: 47 parts wanted

We have a 47 olds 66 series fastback and are looking for door sill
plates and windshield wiper towers. Can anyone help with locating these
two items. can email direct to   chickey1@fidnet.com  thank you jan and
larry Malone.

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:52:32 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

> Maybe an interesting side note about AIR equipped engines.  If the
motor > sounds like its got bad lifters or a knock on acceleration, you
might want > to check the AIR pipes for holes.  I could swear the
wagon's 307 was going

Could my 68 442 have AIR?  How do you tell?  I have been hearing pinging
sounds but attributed it to bad gas (Unocal 92 octane).  I have added
octane booster and this helps a little.  I have had the carb adjusted to
idle higher and this has helped.  The pinging is still there.  How can I
get rid of it?????

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:11:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello address?

At 12:13 PM 10/24/96 +0000, you wrote:
>I noticed this on the 442.com web page and realized I've never seen
one! > >Mondello Performance Parts for Olds Catalog >Anyone have their
email or web or snail address? Thanks > > >

Mondello Performance Products
1102 Paso Robles Street
Paso Robles, CA     93446

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:27:58 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R.

>      the impact of disabling the A.I.R. (by removing the belt) on my
>      computer controlled 307.  I don't have to pass a visual emissions


I've had the AIR pump disabled (belt removed) from my 307 for about 7
years without experiencing any problems.  I'm careful to protect the
pulley from corrosion, and usually spin it a few times a year to keep it
from seizing.

>      Is the O2 sensor expecting to see this additional air pumped in,
and >      will not doing that throw my computer controlled mixture
off?  The

Air is supplied to the exhaust ports in the head only during open loop
operation.  During closed loop mode, air is diverted to the catalytic
converter.

>      adding a bit of rotational mass to the drivetrain, the A.I.R.
pump is >      sort of loud.  It makes a cheezy putt-putt sound that
has no business >      being under the hood of a car with a V8.

This isn't a normal sound.  Perhaps there is a leak in one of the
fittings or a failed valve.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Jason K. Adcock" <adcockjk@pop.erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:14:42 -0300
Subject: Tranny Ratios

Tom, I saw your post with all the tranny gear ratios, but do you (or
anybody) have the ratios for the 3sp 200?  It is in my 1984 Cutlass and
I'm thinking whether to get a 200-4R (ratios ?) or a 700.  Thanks for
any info.

____________________________
Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

1984 Olds Cutlass
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:40:12 -0300
Subject: Re:Help please

Lisa,

I don't know how to get a hold of this week's (Oct 17 - 24) Auto Trader.
What are the prices for these 68's?

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:32:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Pressure Buildup In Gas Tank

> Hi,
>
> I seem to have pressure buildup in my gas tank. Changing the cap for a
new one will probably help? > Take the cap off to fuel up and you can
hear a large hisser emanating from the tank. When I start the > car
with 1/4 tank or so, I can hear a thump (pressure release?) from the
tank. > Never mind the jokes... Joanne >

	Hey there!
	Pressure in the tank, huh?  Try putting an octane booster in the
tank...instead of a bean burrito.  Sorry, could'nt resist!  ;)
	
	That hissing you're hearing could actually be air going -into- the
tank, not out of it.  Whats probibly happening is that as your fuel pump
empties the tank, a partial vaccuum is forming because the tank is
sealed, and no air can get in.  So, when you finally unscrew the cap,
you get a "fisssss" as the air seeps in.

	On the other hand, it could be a  positive pressure in the tank,
Do you have a charcoal canister plumbed to the vent on the tank? It's
also possible something hooked to the canister is plugged (a vaccuum
line, or the canister itself). I know later model cars have a filter
under the canister that virtually never gets replaced (no one ever
remembers, myself included) and it could be so plugged it's not letting
anything through.

	In either case, a cap with a vent would solve the problem, but not
the underlying cause of it.
	
	Anybody else want to take a stab at it?
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Jeff" <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:16:04 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
!!! some people

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:32:05 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 vs. 6-speed

Jeff wrote:
>
> Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
> will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
> !!! some people

Uh-oh.  :o   This ought to invite comment.

And... we're off!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:19:54 -0300
Subject: Located Original Owner

Hi All,

After the postings from several weeks ago about finding original owners
I thought I'd give it a try.

I was looking for the purchaser of my '66 442.  If you remember I am
both the 3rd and 6th owner of this car, which is 95% done.  I had all
the original paper work, so I had a name and 30 year old address.  I
also had his age from the GMAC financing info., and thought that he
might not be around as he would be in his late 60's.

First stop, call the number on the paper work.  No luck!

Next stop, information for San Antonio, TX - (I'm in MI.)  His name is
so common that there were dozens of matches on name.

Next, a letter sent to the old address asking for any information.  (I
sent along a stamped self-addressed envelope to make responding easier.)
A week later I get a response saying that this guy has moved to another
city in TX. The handwriting was so bad I had to guess at the city.

Using an atlas I determined that I had three possible cities to try.
Using the White Pages internet search, I try the first city, two
matches.  Two phone calls prove worthless.

Next city gives one name match.  I call.  BINGO!!!  We talked for
several minutes.  He offers to send me pictures of the car from the week
it was purchased. Cool!!  I have these now, and they are very nice.

I'm sending him pictures that I took recently, as he seems interested in
 the restoration.

Moral:  Use internet searches.  You can search by city, state, or
nationwide; eliminating useless information calls.

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:49:09 -0300
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: "Jason K. Adcock" <adcockjk@pop.erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:02:20 -0300
Subject: Chugging sound: A.I.R. System?

Lately, I've seen the many posts concerning the A.I.R. system on newer
Olds's and I've got a question about mine?  I've got an '84 and when the
motor is cold, anytime I give it any throttle at all, there is a clear
chugging sound.  There is also slight pinging during moderate
acceleration. Is the chugging due to a seal in the exhaust that has not
yet expanded because it is still cold?  Is the pinging coming from the
same source as the chugging?  It sounds like I have tapping
lifters/valves -- very uncool leaving the senior parking lot at high
school!!  Please help!  Thanks in advance!! ____________________________
Jason K. Adcock adcock@erols.com

1984 Olds Cutlass
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:37:39 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: A.I.R.

     Thanks for the info Kevin.  Knowing that it isn't pumped during
closed
     loop makes me feel much better.  By not pumping air into the cat
I'm
     not going to cause it to burn up or anything like that I hope, it
just
     won't work as well?

     The sound it makes isn't loud at all, I doubt anybody but me could
     hear it with the hood closed.  With the hood open it's pretty
obvious,
     and really loud when you forget to hook the intake pipe back up to
the
     air cleaner :-)  It doesn't sound excessively loud, it just sounds
     like a little pump going putt-putt, which is exactly what it is.

     I think it gets disconnected this weekend. . .

     I've heard that some mini-go-cart racers use these air pumps as a
     supercharger.  How's that for innovative?  Or maybe I'll get some
air
     bags and plumb it to back there :-)  Yeah, that's it!  That's the
     ticket!

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: A.I.R. Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    10/24/96 11:02 AM

Air is supplied to the exhaust ports in the head only during open loop
operation.  During closed loop mode, air is diverted to the catalytic
converter.

This isn't a normal sound.  Perhaps there is a leak in one of the
fittings or a failed valve.

Kevin Wong




------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:55:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Frame swap on a 67 442

A die grinder with cutoff disc might do if you can reach the bolts.  The
 oxy torch someone suggested sounds hot! Oops!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
  I'm in the process of swapping the frame on my 67' 442.
Does anyonw have any tips on getting the body mount bolts out?
2 came out fine, 2 broke, and 2 have rounded bolt heads, and 2 are
spinning up in the body.

Ken
rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:56:47 -0300
Subject: some car humor

I thought you might appreciate these
CAR JOKES
being the car people we are
- ---

SUBJ: The Shotgun Rules

The rules listed below apply to the calling of Shotgun (the
passenger seat) in an automobile. These rules are definitive and
binding.

Section I: The Basic Rules

1. In order to call Shotgun, the caller must pronounce the word
"Shotgun" in a clear voice. This call must be heard and
acknowledged by the driver. The other occupants of the vehicle need
not hear the call as long as the driver verifies the call.

2. Shotgun may only be called if all occupants of the vehicle are
outside and on the way to said vehicle.

3. Early calls are strictly prohibited. Shotgun may only be called
while walking toward the vehicle and only applies to the drive
immediately forthcoming. Shotgun can never be called while inside a
vehicle or still technically on the way to the first location. For
example, one can not get out of a vehicle and call Shotgun for the
return journey.

4. The driver has final say in all ties and disputes. The driver
has the right to suspend or remove all shotgun privileges from one
or more persons.

Section II: Special Cases

These special exceptions to the rules above should be considered in
the order presented; the case listed first will take precedence
over any of the cases beneath it, when applicable.

1. In the instance that the normal driver of a vehicle is drunk or
otherwise unable to perform their duties as driver, then he/she is
automatically given Shotgun.

2. If the instance that the person who actually owns the vehicle is
not driving, then he/she is automatically given Shotgun, unless they
decline.

3. In the instance that the driver's spouse, lover, partner, or
hired prostitute for the evening is going to accompany the group,
she is automatically given Shotgun, unless she declines.

4. In the instance that one of the passengers may become so ill
during the course of the journey that the other occupants feel
he/she will toss their cookies, then the ill person should be given
Shotgun to make appropriate use of the window.

5. In the instance that only one person knows how to get to a given
location and this person is not the driver, then as the designated
navigator for the group they automatically get Shotgun, unless they
decline.

6. In the instance that one of the occupants is too wide or tall to
fit comfortably in the back seat, then the driver may show mercy and
award Shotgun to the genetic misfit. Alternatively, the driver and
other passengers may continually taunt the poor fellow as they make
a three hour trip with him crammed in the back.

Section III: The Survival-of-the-Fittest Rule

1. If the driver so wishes, he/she may institute the Survival of
the Fittest Rule on the process of calling Shotgun. In this case
all rules, except I-4, are suspended, and the passenger seat is
occupied by whomever can take it by force.

2. The driver must announce the institution of the Survival of the
Fittest Rule with reasonable warning to all passengers. This clause
reduces the amount of blood lost by passengers and the damage done
to the vehicle.

Please follow the above rules to the best of your ability. If there
are any arguments or exceptions not covered in these rules, please
refer to rule I-4.

========================[ H U M O U R N E T ]=======================

SUBJ: Auto Acronyms Explained!

AUDI
Always Unsafe Designs Implemented

BMW
Big Money Works
Bought My Wife
Brutal Money Waster
Bimbette Motor Weapon
Break My Window

BUICK
Big Ugly Indestructible Car Killer

CHEVROLET
Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time

DODGE
D*mn Old Dirty Gas Eater
Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere

FIAT
Failure in Italian Automotive Technology
Fix It All the Time
Fix it again, Tony!

FORD
First On Recall Day
First On Rust and Deterioration
Fix Or Repair Daily
Found On Road, Dead
Fault Of R&D
Fast Only Rolling Downhill
Features O.J. and Ron's DNA
Found On Russian Dump
backward: Driver Returns On Foot

GM
General Maintenance
Great Mistake

GMC
Garage Man's Companion
Got A Mechanic Coming?

HONDA
Had One Never Did Again

HYUNDAI
Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive...

MAZDA
Most Always Zipping Dangerously Along

OLDSMOBILE
Old Ladies Driving Slowly Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late
  Everywhere
Overpriced, Leisurely Driven Sedan Made Of Buick's Irregular
  Leftover Equipment

SAAB
Send Another Automobile Back
Swedish Automobiles Always Breakdown.

TOYOTA
Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto

VOLVO
Very Odd Looking Vehicular Object

VW
Virtually Worthless

========================[ H U M O U R N E T ]=======================

SUBJ: Reasons to Buy a New Car
>From the "Top Five List," top5@walrus.com, <http://www.topfive.com/>

15. Your passenger seat is on the National Register of Historic
Places.

14. Instead of an airbag, there's a whoopie cushion taped to your
steering wheel.

13. Stench from bodies in trunk becoming unbearable.

12. You lose the stop-light challenge to a 14-year old on a moped.

11. 15-Minute Jiffy Lube needs to keep your car 3 days.

10. Thieves repeatedly break into your car just to take "The Club."

9. When you gas up, the attendant asks "Can I re-duct-tape that
windshield for you?"

8. While waiting at stop light, people run up asking if anyone was
hurt.

7. You never seem to get an answer at the AMC Gremlin help desk.

6. For the last five years, you've had to settle for making "vroom
vroom" noises while sitting in the driveway.

5. Keep losing dates on left turns.

4. Your gas gauge measures in cubits.

3. Traffic reporters starting to refer to you by name when
discussing morning tie-ups.

2. Hasn't been the same since Hugh Grant borrowed it.

1. Your tires are balding faster than Michael Bolton.

========================[ H U M O U R N E T ]=======================

SUBJ: Big Rig Tailgate Humor

This particular bumper-sticker campaign has been observed on the
backs of 18 wheelers. The bumper stickers are placed in pairs on
the right- and left-hand sides of the trailer's rear, to help
encourage drivers approaching from behind to observe good traffic
practices by passing on the left, not the right.

      <<              >>

      pass            fail

      right           wrong

      to be           not to be

      the good        the bad and the ugly

      the ecstasy     the agony

      go ahead        make my day

      live            die

      pass            pass on

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:55:40 -0300
Subject: Re:W30

Joe Padavano


Hey Joe,

     Another question on W-30's.  Would the engine/auto transmission be
the same in my non-W-30 as a real W-30.  Is the only difference between
them, in terms of performance, the RAM Air?  I noticed that when I turn
my air filter pan lid upside down, thus exposing more surface area for
air to get in, I get quite a boost in performance.  I would say on the
order of at least 10%.  Since this is dissipated air flow, a RAM Air
system would obviously force more air into the carb and thus make a
significant boost.  Does this sound reasonable?

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com
1968 442

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 19:16:00 -0300
Subject: FW: Phone Scams:  FYI

Hello All,

I know this is not Oldsmobile related, but I feel a sort of comradery
with you folks, and try to help out anywhere I can.  Here is a message
I received in company mail that I feel is worth sharing with you, so
you don't become a victim. ____________________________________

         A friend of mine outside HP shared info about a new phone scam
to
     watch out for.  The bottom line is, don't call any number starting
     with area code 809 unless you are sure who you are calling.

     For whatever it's worth...


>Basically, a new scam has been identified by the National
>Fraud Information Center that is costing victims BIG BUCKS!
>
>The scam works like this: >
>You get home and notice that the message light is blinking >on
 your answering machine.  You listen to the message, which has
 several wrinkles, but the best one is the caller asks you to
 call a number beginning with area code 809 to receive
 information about a family member who has been ill.  (They may
 also tell you someone has been arrested, died, you have won a
 wonderful prize, etc.)
>
>In any event, concerned or curious, you make the call.
>Sometimes the phone will be answered by a person who claims to
>speak broken English.  (The idea is to keep you on the line to
>build up charges.)  Or, sometimes you will just get a long
>recorded message.  The bottom lines is, when your phone bill
>comes, you see this incredible charge, oftentimes more than
>$100.00 dollars!
>
>Crooks are using the 809 numbers as "pay-per-calls" and to get
>around the US Regulations and 900 number blocking.  Every time
>you call the number, they get a greatly inflated rebate from
>the foreign phone company.  Since the 809 numbers are in the
>Caribbean, they aren't bound by US 900# regulations that
>require them to warn you of the charge and rate involved, and
>also to provide a time period during which you may terminate
>the call without being charged.
>
>The newest twist to this scam is to page people using the 809
>numbers.  With the new area code changes, people unknowingly
>are returning these calls.  When the bill comes, there are
>HUGE charges for the calls.
>
>My suggestion is that no matter how you get the message, if
>you are asked to call a number with an 809 area code that you
>don't recognize,  DON'T RETURN THE CALL!  It's bad enough that
>the criminal is invading your privacy, don't let them invade
>you wallet as well!
>
>Scams of this type are extremely hard to prosecute and since
>you did actually make the call, neither your local phone
>company nor your long distance carrier will want to get
>involved.  They'll tell you that they are simply providing
>the billing for the foreign company.  You end up trying to
>deal (over the phone) with a foreign company that feels they
>have done no wrong.  It can turn into a real nightmare!
>
>
>Please fwd this msg to friends and let people be aware of it!
>

------------------------------

From: Gerald Gibson <gibson@webgate.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:06:55 -0300
Subject: Re: W30

Chris Sparks wrote:
  I noticed that when I turn my air
> filter pan lid upside down, thus exposing more surface area for air to
get in, > I get quite a boost in performance.  I would say on the order
of at least > 10%.  Since this is dissipated air flow, a RAM Air system
would obviously > force more air into the carb and thus make a
significant boost.  Does this > sound reasonable? > > Chris Sparks >
sparks@aisf.com > 1968 442

     Chris,

     I'm not extremely familiar with the W-30 but I know a little about
forced induction.  This works under the same principle as a
supercharger.  Forcing air into the carb.  You are exactly correct.

          Gerald Gibson
          gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:20:00 -0300
Subject: FI Manifold

>From what I've read, it seems that the open plenum high rpm manifolds
are the best for retrofitting FI. Probably also a good idea to check
out the factory manifolds for those cars that came with FI as then
you'll get a sense of runner length and manifold open/closed-ness. cf

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:58:12 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....    I'M BACK!!!!

I havn't seen many Resto tip subject headings in a while... but the
contest is still on....

Also, there was a man in Buffalo that had a convertable top repair
"?"... e-mail me... i think i have an answer for you....

<ferrero@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>

Now for a tip you have been waiting for...






New plastic oil bottles are fine, but they don't have enough spout to
hit the target without a mess in many cases...

if you use an 8-10 inch piece of garden hose (female end) you can screw
it on and presto!  long spout!  or better yet...

getting a garden hose Y adapter with duel stop cocks, you have an easy

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:38:04 -0300
Subject: Re: 47 parts wanted

hello.  if i am not mistaken, Fusick Auto has door sill plates....  they
are expensive, but they are good and the only place i have noticed them
to be available....

As for the wind shield wiper towers...

did your car not have them?  Are you looking for better chrome or
functional wiper towers in any condition?  And do they have to have the
trico washer option or can they be the "plain jane"?


i have a 47 olds and a 48 olds...
ferrero@uno.cc.geneseo.edu

one is series 66 and the other a 76

e-mail me and maybe i can "fix you up" with some.

- --joe

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:12:58 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 215

At 08:36 AM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> they went to a bodyshell unique to F*rd of Australia). The Rover car
was >> actually a Leyland (hey, remember _that_ name?) > >Oh yeah, I
remember it well -- it appeared on the bottom of all my old >Matchbox
cars! :)

Yeah, the only British car never to leak oil! :)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:13:07 -0300
Subject: Re: A.I.R. (was CA smog laws)

At 12:52 PM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Could my 68 442 have AIR?  How do you tell?  I have been hearing
pinging sounds >but attributed it to bad gas (Unocal 92 octane).  I have
added octane booster >and this helps a little.  I have had the carb
adjusted to idle higher and this >has helped.  The pinging is still
there.  How can I get rid of it?????

If it is pinging under part-throttle, then you likely need to reduce the
amount of vacuum advance; Crane makes an excellent adjustable
vacuum-advance canister that allows you to optimize your spark curve for
today's gas. Best of all, it is only $20 (or basically 3/4 of a tank of
gas). I put one in my Toro's unrebuilt 100,000 mile, 10.25:1 comp. ratio
455, and it doesn't ping at all under any conditions. Highly
recommended.

Probably no A.I.R. on your car, though.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:17:54 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

At 08:16 PM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
>will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
>!!! some people

I know what you mean! Those '68-'69 Hurst/Olds cars were real pieces of
garbage with those TH400's....

And of course, what are those Super Comp guys thinking, running
Powerglides? Heck, anyone knows that those eight-second cars would be
_SIX_-second cars, if they only ran Muncie M-22 "Rockcrusher"
transmissions...

I know that the TH400 in my Buick was a piece of garbage, starting to
slip a bit between gears after only 16 years and 220,000 miles!

;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:37:03 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 Cutlass for Parts (I Looked at it Again!)

Craig Dobbins writes:
>If anyone
>has any other questions about this car, please write me back and
>I'll try to find out what I can.  I do not own the car, but it's
>only 3-5 minutes away from where I live, so it's no big deal.

Craig,

Any possible chance that it may have white buckets? I am looking for a
pair of decent 72's.


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: kdporter@midwest.net (kdporter)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:39:30 -0300
Subject: Big block manifolds

   Got a question,I have a set of big block man. with a "X" and a "Z" on
the man. Can anyone tell me the year or application of these man.

    thanks


kdporter
kdporter@midwest.net

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:58:52 -0300
Subject: 442

Hello,

	It's not even winter here yet and I'm already making plans of things to
do with my 442 next spring.  I would like to get it repainted (paint on
back half of car is faded and front had been repainted before I got the
car).  I was wondering if it would be reasonable to have the gold
stripes and 442 stickers painted or pinstriped on and clearcoated or if
I should go original (can`t get stickers for the sides).  Does any one
know a rough figure for the difference in cost between the two?

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. I haven't gotten a chance to adjust my T.V. cable yet (hope to do
it Saturday) and oil level was fine.  Thanks for the advice.

------------------------------

From: "bemet" <bemet@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:05:11 -0300
Subject: Re: '71 Paint Code?

Art- Thanks for the info.

- ----------
> From: mefco@sprynet.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: '71 Paint Code?
> Date: Thursday, October 24, 1996 11:12 AM
>
> I have the Sherwin Williams 1971 color manual, and Sterling silver is
as > follows: > Paint code 13 > acrylic lacquer L11  3127 > acrylic
enamel  J5-3904 > enamel          J3-3904 > code 13; 905 > chip No.
2G > > There is no ditzler number in this book. As you're probably
aware, the color was > also offered on Chev., Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac,
and Corvette. Of course, the > color had different names. > > Art
Fuller >

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:14:03 -0300
Subject: Automatics are junk???

>I know that the TH400 in my Buick was a piece of garbage, starting to
slip a >bit between gears after only 16 years and 220,000 miles!

Exactly.  The TH350 in my '69 is out of a '74 Cutlass, and when we got
it from the Nice Man for $20, it was _FULL_ of water.  Pulled the pan,
changed filter and gasket, drained the convertor, put it in the car, and
filled it with new fluid.  Added a fluid cooler and a shift kit, and
have had not one problem in eight years.  What a piece of crap. - --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida
1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: KEVIN HOOPINGARNER <khooping@bright.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:18:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Big block manifolds

>   Got a question,I have a set of big block man. with a "X" and a "Z"
on the >   man. Can anyone tell me the year or application of these man.



You appear to have a mixed pair of dual exhaust manifolds, or a late set
of 68's when oldsmobile was changing over.  See chart below.

The Cutlass/442 exhaust manifold usage is as follows.

                    YEAR        LETTER          LOCATION
                1965-1967         X             Left front
                                  W             Right rear

                1968 (Early 1968 models use same as 1967; late 1968
models use same as                  1969)
                                  X             Left front
                                  Y             Right Rear

                1969              W             Left front
                                  Z             Right rear

                1970-'72          W             Left front
                                  Z             Right rear


                The 1969-72 exhaust manifolds feature a divider between
the center exhaust ports.  The 1967 and earlier models do not have this
feature. Also, all manifolds except 1970-'72 will have a heat riser
(shutoff) on the left-side exhasut manifold.

        If you're trying to sell the manifolds, I'm currently restoring
a '70 442 and may be interested in purchasing them.  (Even though I only
would use the Z)



                                                Best Regards,


                                                Kevin Hoopingarner
                                                '70 Olds 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:27:26 -0300
Subject: Re: 700R4 vs. 6-speed

Jeff wrote:
>
> Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
> will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
> !!! some people

Well, I suppose that's why one of the meanest Olds ever had an
automatic.
The '69 H/O!
Don't get me wrong, I like a close ratio 4 speed (want my next 442 to
have one),
but I still love the TH400 with a dual gate in my '71 442.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:29:01 -0300
Subject: Leaky Q-jets

Here's a little something I read in the October/November Muscle Car
Review, in an article titled "The Quadranator" by Jim McGowan.  It has
text and pictures following the rebuild of a carb at Brad Urban's
Carburetor Shop. At the end of the article it says "As a result of
studying the Q-Jet x-rays mentioned earlier, the Carb Shop can now
recognize whether the restrictor orifice well is cracked (not visible)
and can repair it using a secret process (no, we can't tell or we'll be
condemned to a life of erratic idle problems).  If it's cracked, gas
will leak from the fuel bowl directly into the intake manifold causing
no fuel in the bowl on fire up, no carb sensitivity and creating a very
rich mixture allowing no adjustment."

So, if you think you have leaky well plugs, pay attention to the
symptoms. You may have a cracked restrictor orifice well.  I've never
heard of it before. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass
Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:36:27 -0300
Subject: re:700R4 vs. 6-speed

At 09:16 PM 10/24/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Quit talking about automatics already they are junk and
>will never be worth anything to a real muscle car enthusiast
>!!! some people


Well, we don't discuss things on this list according to what one person
or a group of people feel the "worth" of that particular item is.
Doesn't matter if you or I think the topic discussed or question posed
has any "worth", is "cool", is "junk", whatever.  That doesn't mean you
can't express your opinion, of course.  Just understand that this list
is for the exchange of information, and people need all kinds of
information about all kinds of things, worthless or not.  And that's
_my_ opinion. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:40:13 -0300
Subject: Re: FI Manifold

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Chris Fair wrote:

>
>
> >From what I've read, it seems that the open plenum high rpm manifolds
> are the best for retrofitting FI. Probably also a good idea to check
> out the factory manifolds for those cars that came with FI as then
you'll > get a sense of runner length and manifold open/closed-ness. >
cf >

Runner lenght has a lot to do with torque, On the 5.0 Mustangs the
intake runners are very long and with the stock cam the engine power
peaks @ 52-5300 rpm (and this is with a 4"bore and 3"stroke!!!) A lot
of the aftermarket intakes retain the long runners, but increase the
diameter of the runner to promot good torque with increased high rpm
potential, there are also "box" intakes which have really short runners
and a very large plenum area, but these are only recommended for high
rpm (above 6500) race engines and for use with supercharges and turbos.

I think for an Oldsmobile it would really depend on what size the engine
 is and the intended rpm range the motor would be run in. From what I
have seen in pricing FI for the Olds the cheapest way out would be to
run an aftermarket intake with one of Holley's Projection systems.
There available in 600 to 900cfm sizes.

I am actually kind of partial to Q-jets cause there easy to rebuild and
will give you all the power you want, but then again my car is a fair
weather flyer and never sees snow or inclimate weather, if it was a
daily driver I think I would go with some sort of FI setup, Did Olds
produce any FI V8's??

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

>

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:49:40 -0300
Subject: Re: some car humor

     I've always liked those types of things, thanx for the laugh.  I've
just spent 4 hours reloading Windoze for Dips**ts, soI certainly needed
it!

     Ya missed a couple of my ~personal~ favorites, tho'

>FORD
   F***, Our Ride Died!


>OLDSMOBILE
   Oh Look, Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking Everything!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:58:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Leaky Q-jets

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:

> Here's a little something I read in the October/November Muscle Car
Review, > in an article titled "The Quadranator" by Jim McGowan.  It has
text and > pictures following the rebuild of a carb at Brad Urban's
Carburetor Shop. > At the end of the article it says "As a result of
studying the Q-Jet x-rays > mentioned earlier, the Carb Shop can now
recognize whether the restrictor > orifice well is cracked (not visible)
and can repair it using a secret > process (no, we can't tell or we'll
be condemned to a life of erratic idle > problems).  If it's cracked,
gas will leak from the fuel bowl directly into > the intake manifold
causing no fuel in the bowl on fire up, no carb > sensitivity and
creating a very rich mixture allowing no adjustment." > > So, if you
think you have leaky well plugs, pay attention to the symptoms. > You
may have a cracked restrictor orifice well.  I've never heard of it
before. > -- > Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme >
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS >
dpauliso@gate.net > Actually I had leaky well plugs once!!

This is what I did, first you drill out the plugs (I don't remeber what
size drill) then you tap the hole and screw in a allen head plug with
epoxy on the threads, then you put epoxy over the well and the head ofn
the allen head plug (use good epoxy) then I used epoxy on the two rear
main plugs (don't use the foam pad GM supplies, after a while they
harden up and cause air leaks by warping the base). I made this repair
about 8 years ago and it hasn't leaked since.

I learned this trick from HP's Rochester Carburetors book, It is
definetly worth picking up if you have never been inside of a Q-jet.


Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: Badger <badger@badger.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Ok, so what's the MPG on a 350 Cutlass

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> > >Hi again. I appreciated all the responses to my last question, and
now I > > >have another: what's the average gas mileage for a '70 350
Cutlass auto? I > > >presently don't own a Cutlass, but I'm looking for
a '68-72 Cutlass, so I > > >want to know what kind of gas mileage the
engines get. Oh, one more > > >question: about how much more horsepower
did the W-30 package add? > > > > With the '73 350 currently residing
in the engine bay of Big Red, I don't > measure gas consumption in
m.p.g. so much; as with other boats, I measure > it in hours :) > > I
get about 3.5 - 4.5 hours per tank. > > Tim (I Don't Park, I Moor)
Churchill > ------------- > '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' > '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined >
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

     Once upon a time, i heard someone comment that it would be better
if, when you went out to buy a used car, it had an hour meter on it,
too. But, I still laughed at the above comment.
     But still, a clock would be a better judge of car usage than
flat-out miles, I think. Another thing Detroit will never give us.
     The '68 Cutlass 4-door I own, 350 2bbl, lands in the 13-15 mpg
range, depending on how heavy my foot is that week. And not doing THAT
takes a whole lot of discipline after driving a Honda for three years,
folks.

- -----------------------
Chase Clements Jr., Cincinnati OH
'68 Olds Cutlass 4-door (Granny's ex)

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #342
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