To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/14/96 08:56:19 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #367


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 14 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 367


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

In a message dated 96-11-13 10:16:01 EST, you write:

> Teal Frost outside, Parchment inside

Well, then, I don't know the trim you're talking about is blue.  Must
have been replaced by a former owner and blue is the only color they
could find.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Body identification

In a message dated 96-11-13 10:33:45 EST, you write:

> Now here is where I need help.  Can anyone fill in the following:
>
>       ??? - Corvette

Y-body

>       ??? - Beretta/Corsica

L-body

>       ??? - Reatta

Isn't this based on the Riv?  I'm guessing E, but it's prolly wrong.

>       ??? - FWD Seville

Since this is basically an Eldo with extra doors, I'm gonna say E here
too.
 Of course, that's up until this last body change (93?) then they
changed it to something else I think.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:36 -0400
Subject: Mennonite Diesels

In a message dated 96-11-13 00:52:57 EST, you write:

> And the diesel cars are acceptable, while the gasoline versions are
not, >  because diesel fuel is less "refined", and thus more natural
than gasoline. >  I don't know their views on LPG or propane-powered
cars; we kinda skipped >  over that chapter in my "American Religion"
class. >

Had to read this a couple of time before it sunk in, I'm kinda dense
today.
 I don't think it's an issue of diesel fuel being more acceptable than
gasoline.  It's more a matter of (A) many Mennonites are farmers and
have diesel powered vehicles on the farms.  Diesel fuel is readily
available down at the barn for many of them, and when the diesels break
down (do they do that?), these fellas can jumps right under the hood and
repair whats needed because they have the experience from dealing with
the tractors and (B) Mennonites are known for being, well, frugal is a
good word I think.  They were able to purchase these vehicles used at
rock bottom prices and they love the fuel mileage.  And even though
Mennonites are supposed to shy away from things that are "flashy",
around here they seem to have an appetite for Oldses and Buicks,
especially Ninety Eights, 88s, Park Aves and LeSabres.
 And the younger generation gets a kick out of Z28s and Firebirds and
Mustangs and such -- and they ain't always "black bumpers" either!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Dieselmania

In a message dated 96-11-13 00:52:57 EST, you write:

> Chilton's lists it as a 263ci V-6 (just to pick a nit)

Well, my mother used to tell me there's one in every crowd! :)  This is
entirely possible, because this is the era when GM was showing
displacement in litres only, not cubic inches were shown in the sales
manual.  I assumed the 4.3 was a 260.  That's GM consistency for ya.  I
couldn't find anything to dispute your claim, so we'll take it on your
authority that it's a 263.

Paul
Stands corrected

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

In a message dated 96-11-13 09:24:28 EST, you write:

> And in the Motorcycle category....
>
>  Kawa-Smokey
>  Yama-HaHaHa
>

How 'bout

Hardly Drivensome - Motor Troubles

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:38:14 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT ROD Magazine - Awesome Pic

In a message dated 96-11-13 18:14:26 EST, you write:

<< Just got my new Hot Rod Magazine and as I was thumbing through the
pages,
 what to my surprise is a 70 Cutlass with it's nose in the air about 4
ft !!!
 IT' s DEFINITELY NOT Your Daddy's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!!   It's on page 12
and
 is worth a look !!!

  >>
Well this car belongs to Bill Trovato from NY.  The picture was taken
at Norwalk Raceway in OH at the Mondello Olds Nats last July 96.
What the article fails to say is that the car runs 10 teens on motor
and then 9 sevens on Nitros. The car is awesome and is painted the
color of red eventhought the pic is B&W.  He will be at the 97 Mondello\
Olds Nats, so please attend.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: "bemet" <bemet@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:41:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine paint

Don't know if this will help, but I just had the same problem with the
blue from a 455. What we did was find an engine we knew was original and
then had a paint shop match the paint. It came out fairly well.

- ----------
> From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Engine paint
> Date: Wednesday, November 13, 1996 12:32 PM
>
> Hi all,
> I sent this in a couple days ago, and didn't see any responses, but
with all > the traffic lately, I'm sure it could have been overlooked.
I'm sending it > again, in hope someone has rebuilt a 350 recently and
knows a good source

> for the most accurate gold engine paint color.
> I'm in the process of rebuilding my '69 350 engine and although it's a
long
> way away from engine paint, I am wondering where to find the best
duplicate
> of the original gold color on the engine.  Most I've seen is WAY TOO
gold,
> and I'm sure there has to be something available that is much closer.
Any
> advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jeff Zeilmann
> SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
> '68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
>

------------------------------

From: Bradley Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:42:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 04:31 PM 11/13/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Ok oldmophiles,
>
>I was talking to a coworker about my car the other day and he mentioned
>to me
>that he thought my car could go 140 mph.  I told him no way with a 400
3 >speed. >Does anyone think that he probably thought my car was a 455 4
speed, >thus the >140 mph?  How does the performance figures for 1968
Oldsmobiles compare >to one >another.  Even better how about overall for
the 442 models. > >Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to tackle this
one. > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > Chris,

In '68, all Oldsmobiles transmissions (4 speed or automatic) had a 1:1
ratio in last gear.  What determines the top speed capability of the car
is the rear end ratio.  A 2.78 ratio rear end can achieve a lot higher
top end speed than a 3.91 ratio.  A 2.78 rear end will run 165 mph at
6,000 rpm while a 3.91 will run 120 mph at 6,000 rpm.  The 3.91 just
gets to that 120 mph mark a whole lot quicker than the 2.56!

Brad
'69 442

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:51:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

At 13:04 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     Av-gas's idea of "low lead" is hardly what your or I would
consider >     "low".  It still has many times the amount of lead that
leaded gas >     (when it was available) had.  Therefore, one drawback
might be lead >     deposits and fouling plugs.  I don't think it'd be
a serious problem >     on a car without a cat or O2 sensor though. >
 >     Another drawback is that it's not _supposed_ to be sold for
automotive >     use.  If you've found a place that will sell it to you
straight into >     your car (rather than filling 5-gallon jerry cans)
then more power to >     you.  But they're not supposed to do that, I'd
keep things low-key for >     the time being. >

   I was using AV gas in my stock car ('73 Cutlass Supreme).  Rules
stated it had to be stock carburated and nothing about fuel type.  I
called the local Airpark and asked if I could purchase AV gas from them
and was told I could if it was put directly into the car.  I wasn't
allowed to fill a gas can because of insurance rules.  So I would pull
the my car in on the trailer into the fuel area and fill it at $1.85 a
gallon.  There is definitely a power difference and never had a problem
but then again it wasn't being driven like you would drive on the
streets with the cyclical excelleration, de-excelleration, braking to an
idle for a minute, and re-excelleration again.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Bradley Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:56:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 04:31 PM 11/13/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Ok oldmophiles,
>
>I was talking to a coworker about my car the other day and he mentioned
>to me
>that he thought my car could go 140 mph.  I told him no way with a 400
3 >speed. >Does anyone think that he probably thought my car was a 455 4
speed, >thus the >140 mph?  How does the performance figures for 1968
Oldsmobiles compare >to one >another.  Even better how about overall for
the 442 models. > >Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to tackle this
one. > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > Chris,

In '68, all Oldsmobiles transmissions (4 speed or automatic) had a 1:1
ratio in last gear.  What determines the top speed capability of the car
is the rear end ratio.  A 2.78 ratio rear end can achieve a lot higher
top end speed than a 3.91 ratio.  A 2.78 rear end will run 165 mph at
6,000 rpm while a 3.91 will run 120 mph at 6,000 rpm.  The 3.91 just
gets to that 120 mph mark a whole lot quicker than the 2.78!

Brad
'69 442

------------------------------

From: Bradley Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:56:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 04:31 PM 11/13/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Ok oldmophiles,
>
>I was talking to a coworker about my car the other day and he mentioned
>to me
>that he thought my car could go 140 mph.  I told him no way with a 400
3 >speed. >Does anyone think that he probably thought my car was a 455 4
speed, >thus the >140 mph?  How does the performance figures for 1968
Oldsmobiles compare >to one >another.  Even better how about overall for
the 442 models. > >Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to tackle this
one. > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > Chris,

In '68, all Oldsmobiles transmissions (4 speed or automatic) had a 1:1
ratio in last gear.  What determines the top speed capability of the car
is the rear end ratio.  A 2.78 ratio rear end can achieve a lot higher
top end speed than a 3.91 ratio.  A 2.78 rear end will run 165 mph at
6,000 rpm while a 3.91 will run 120 mph at 6,000 rpm.  The 3.91 just
gets to that 120 mph mark a whole lot quicker than the 2.78!

Brad
'69 442

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:36:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks wrote:
>
> PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> > I kinda thought maybe you did.  What color did we tell you the
> > interior should be?
>
> Teal Frost outside, Parchment inside

Wow!

That is just the colors of my '68 442 convertible.  I wonder how many
there are like that?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Loyd Bonecutter" <loydb@enteract.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:29:55 -0400
Subject: Hesitation on Computer controlled car

> The problem I'm having is on my '87 Cutlass Supreme. It doesn't happen
all
>the time, this was the second time it did this. It is under part
throttle >acceleration. I don't know if it happens at full throttle
because the car >will die if I push the gas that far. Of course this
only happens from a dead >stop.

>Andy Geeting
>geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu

>'87 Cutlass Supreme
'>88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'>74 Delta 88 convertible

Get an inexpensive scanner like an OTC 2000 (Got mine from my local
mechanic for $50 when he upgraded to a OTC 4000) and read the sensors
that give input to the computer, through the ALDL (assembly line
diagostnic link).  Made sure you get the manuals for the device and the
chip for the GM products with the cable to connect to the car.

For instance if the engine is lean the O2 sensor will read below 0.45
volts, this will confirm fuel shortage due to poor delivery systems.
Things that would give false information to the computer to make the
engine hesitate includes:

The TPS (throttle position sensor) should read 0.4 to 0.6 with the
throttle closed and about 4.6 volts at WOT (wide open throttle).  When
you step on it this device gives the computer warning, that the engine
is going to need more fuel, and adjust the timing as the old vacuum
advance used to.  With out changing values from the TPS, the computer
may not react effectively. This is a electrical-mechanical device that
eventually will wear out.  Both of my 86 automobiles had TPS's that
needed replacing.  There is an accelerator pump on the 307 computer
controlled 4V carburator, that should squirt some extra go juice when
the accelerator is pressed.

The coolant temperature sensor,  which would not let computer believe
the engine is warmed up therefore maintain in open loop (no feedback
from O2 sensor) and run off fuel and timing calibration tables assuming
a cold engine.

The O2 sensor, which adjusts the amount of fuel to be added to the air
stream passing through the carb., when the computer is in closed loop
(meaning the readings from the O2 sensor adjust the carb. of which the
new reading are again adjusted by the O2 sensor again).   The engine
typically cycles from rich (above 0.45 volts O2 sensor reading) to lean
(below 0.45 volts) about 128 times per 1.25 seconds (which happens to be
how often the computer cycles the data stream), indicating a healthy 02
sensor.

Barometric pressure (under dash) and manifold pressure sensors, that
indicate to the computer (in concert with the intake air temperature
sensor) how much air is flowing therefore has an input into the amount
of fuel the carb. should add to the air stream.

Since you did not mention the service engine soon light, being on, I'll
assume nothing has pulled a code.  If it has been on, you might try
shorting the A & B terminal on the ALDL, and counting the flashes on the
service engine soon light with the key in the on position, but the
engine not running.  For instance one short flash and two long flashes
is a 12 meaning everything is fine.

Maintaining a 10 year old computer controlled car, will require better
test equipment as these sensors get older.  To maintain in top condition
the tools required include a scanner.

Loyd Bonecutter  <loydb@enteract.com>
86 G Body with 307

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:11:11 -0400
Subject: RCPT: 1977 Cutlass S

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    13 Nov 96  9:58
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: 1977 Cutlass S

Was read at 1:11, 14 Nov 96.

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:42:00 -0400
Subject: A funny thing happened to me at our Olds chapter meeting...

Last night was our monthly meeting of the Archway Olds chapter.  We have
 them at Casa Gallardo on New Halls Ferry Road (In Florissant).  It is
just a block north of 270. This was the first time my wife didn't
accompany me, and she is regretting it.  I went in and sat down in a
booth, and shortly after, a couple new members sat down in the booth
with me.  I had brought with me the two new ERTL die-cast models to
show other members.  I had written an article about them in the most
recent article of the club newsletter, and figured members would like
to see what they look like.  Anyway, the two new members are in their
early 20's and after they first sat down, were checking out the models,
then one of them mentioned he just bought a '69 442 5 days ago that was
"unbelievably fast."  He proceeded to tell me all about it, with his
partner chiming in to add to his 4-4-2s credibility.  He said he got it
by trading some guy two automobiles, a Ninja motorcycle, and an
expensive stereo system.  Throughout the meeting, they continued to tell
me about the history of the car, telling me that it used to be blue,
but it was just recently painted white.  I told them about my '69 4-4-2
that I sold over eight years ago, and how fast it was with the nitrous
kit, and they kinda half listened to me as if they were thinking "Sure,
but it couldn't be as fast or as nice as mine."  I listened to them
throughout the meeting, and told them I would like to see it after the
meeting.  After all, the '69 4-4-2 is my favorite car in the world!
The meeting ended, and several people had approached me about the
article, to see the die-cast models, and to ask me some questions.  The
two guys were waiting patiently for me, and I kept trying to get away
so I could see this car.  Finally they said "We'll be outside waiting,
see you outside."  Moments later I broke away, and said my goodbyes,
and bee-lined for the door.

THE SURPRIZE
When I got out to the parking lot I saw this white '69 4-4-2 that had a
'70 4-4-2 Ram Air hood scoop on it.  I went over to it, and began to
check it out.  A couple other people started to gather around to check
it out, so I told him I was going to put my die-cast models in my car,
so I wouldn't have to carry them.  After I put them away, and turned
around and headed back to his car, I noticed he had lifted the hood.  I
walked over to it, and started to check out the engine.  I stuck my
head under the hood, and immediately did a double take.  Holley valve
covers, Edelbrock Torker intake manifold, Holley 780......I thought
"No, it can't be!"  I looked around the engine compartment and more
things looked very familiar.  "It is!!!  It's my old 4-4-2!!!!"  I
yelled in excitement, "Hey...this is my car!!!"  "I mean, this WAS my
car that I was telling you guys about inside!"  They both looked at me,
then each other and said "No way!"  I began describing some of the most
detailed features of the car, that only an owner could know.  One by
one, I walked around and showed them each thing I said.  They, and I
were totally in amazement.  It looks nothing like when I had it.  It is
in fairly good condition, but has been severely modified from it's
predominantly factory look when I had it.  When I sold it, the interior
was still all original, and in excellent shape.  It had a cloth type of
fabric on the seats, that had recently been redone, and not to mention
the ram air hood.  The front bumper had a dent in it, the original blue
vinyl roof that was pristine when I sold it, had been completely
removed, and was also now white paint.  The wheels were not the wheels
I had on it.  It now had some SSIIs on it, that didn't look half bad,
but I used to have a set of Weld Superlite Aluminum wheels on it, that
looked beautiful.  I am usually one who prefers the original factory
wheels on any car, but I was very partial to those Weld wheels on that
car.  They just seemed to go together like peanut butter and jelly.
The rest of the car had been semi-half hazardly taken care of.  I had
brought it to near perfection, and of course anything short of that was
disappointing to see, like engine compartment components that looked
like they had been painted while still on the car.  But, there was
reprise when he started her up.  Ahhhh.....that familiar deep cam sound
"vigida vigida vigida vigida."  Oh how I have yearned to hear that
beautiful sound.  The engine sounded great.  I almost had a tear in my
eye as I saw it pull away.
 I raced home to tell my wife.  She's never seen it in real life, just
pictures and video.  But, at least now I know where it is, and maybe
he'll grant me visitation rights!  That is all I've thought about last
night, and all today  I had to share it with you.  Maybe some day,
when/if he gets tired of it, he'll think of me.  I hope.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:21:36 -0400
Subject: It won't start!!

Hey folks ...
Well, this should be a simple problem, but I can't solve it (yet), so
I'm looking for advice.

My 74 Ninety-Eight (455 cid.) won't start ... since Tuesday morning

The important details:
1.  The battery is good (although it is getting cranky [ha ha] not
getting charged) 2.  I replaced the spark plugs this afternoon.  They
fire when removed from the engine with the cable attached and grounded.
3.  No problem with fuel flow (In fact, it's occured to me that the
engine flooded, but it's been 2 days now).  I believe that I have the
famous "well-plug" problem, but other than this, the car's never had
fuel-related starting problems. 4.  The engine grounds are good. 5.  I
drove for about 4 miles Tuesday morning, shut it down, came back 3 hours
later: doesn't start. 6.  The temperature is around freezing here these
days.

Am I overlooking something obvious? Or subtle?

I guess there could be problems with the timing (chain, distributor,
camshaft: the engine has about 150,000 miles on it), but I wouldn't
think a problem like that would arise suddenly.  It ran very nicely up
till yesterday.

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas, please let me know.  I've never been
unable to solve an automotive problem, and have never had a car towed
because it broke down (just matters of pride, of course) ...

Thanks ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:36:35 -0400
Subject: re:Neutral_switch

At 11:20 PM 11/13/96 pst, Dal wrote:

>What has me puzzled is why the car starts in Park. If the interlock is
>electronic, I would have expected it to work for neither or for both.

I have had one of my switches work in Neutral and not Park.  I replaced
the switch and all was fine.  I would suspect that that particular
portion of the switch 'burnt-out' or did not 'close' the electrical
circuit at that point on the switch.(or See Below)

>The quality of descriptions varies widely. Here's an explanation about
the >combination Park/Neutral switch in the 88 manual. > >  'The
backup lamps are designed to operate with the ignition 'On'. Placing >
the car shift lever in 'Reverse' closes the circuit, turning the backup >
lamps on. This is accomplished through the Park/Neutral switch located
on >   the steering column.'

This works the same way on a console or column switch.  The ignition
must be 'On' (meaning the key should be in the 'On' position) but not
necessarily running.  The 'Reverse' circuit is separate from the Neutral
start and Park circuits, therefore you must close that particular
circuit to operate the backup lamps.

>The Buick 72 manual has a description which mentions that the switch is
on >the steering column and that there is nothing in the console. The
72 is a >GS, which unlike Olds, moves the the PRND2L indicator when you
shift with >the console. What I am having trouble grasping is how the
system works e.g. > >  'On all column shift AT cars, the switch is
actuated by the transmission >   control shaft.'

And this switch is located on top of the steering column under the dash

>  'On cars with a console, when the neutral-start portion of the switch
is >   correctly timed, the back-up portion is properly timed
automatically. >   Slotted mounting screw holes permit sidewise
movement of the switch for >   proper timing.' > >The column mechanical
movement is straightforward and understandable but >what 'timing' is
involved for a console?

The switch that comes in a console has a metal linkage that runs through
the switch that moves the 'actuating device' (for lack of a better word)
within the switch.  One end of the linkage is attached (indirectly I
beleive)to the shifter rod.  The switch itself is bolted to a bracket
behind the shifter rod.  As you move the shifter from P -> R -> N -> D
-> S -> L, the linkage slides through the switch which in turn moves the
'actuating device' to 'close' the proper circuit in the switch.  For
example, If you were in 'P', then the linkage and 'actuating device'
would be in the part of the switch that would 'close' the circuit to
allow the car to start.  If you move the shifter to 'R' and tried to
start the car, then you would only get the backup lamps working but not
be able to start the car because the linkage (and actuating device)
would have only moved to a location in the switch that 'closes' the
circuit for the Backup lamps but not the ignition circuit. Moving the
shifter to 'N' moves the linkage to the second area of the switch that
allows the car to be started. The switch itself could become missaligned
or worn during the years of use/abuse and also the shifter/transmission
cable becomes stretched and it starts to become necessary to 'wiggle'
the shifter back and forth to find the correct part of the switch that
corresponds to Neutral or R for the backup lamps. Note: the switch is
not in 'sinc' or in 'time' with the transmission at this point. (ie. the
Transmission is in 'R' but the linkage in the switch may actualy be at a
point that is 'N'.  In which case the car can be started in Reverse but
have no backup lights working at that location.)  In order to get the
switch back in 'time' with the transmission, you need to move
(slightly)the bracket that holds the switch stationary. This is a trial
and error procedure as you are trying to find which points on the switch
correspond to what gears on the transmission.  Once these positions have
been found to 'line up' properly again, the bracket is rebolted down in
it's new location.

>If actuation is not needed for the console, why would it be needed for
the >column?

I beleive that actuation is needed for both types as they both operate
on the same principle of a mechanical moving part in a switch.

>I'm having trouble grasping the principles of operation, and obviously
my >mechanic did also because he claimed it was not possible.

It may be impossible with your current switch and transmission cable
because they may never be able to get into sinc for the above mentioned
reasons. However, for less grief, I would recommend a column neutral
saftey switch for your car as it is much easier to work with.  I think
both Supercars Unlimited and Brothers automotive carry them for about
$20.

Hope this helps,

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:19:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

>
>If you are referring to the "Aerotech" - a single seat race car looking
thing - >then, Yes, it is there.  Has HUD, as well, I think. >

No, it had a full leather interior, as I recall.  Looked ~really~ clean.
'85 Cutlass, pure black, tinted windows, wing, scoop, and ground
effects. No hud that I was aware of.  307 with swirl port heads or
something to that affect.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:17:47 -0400
Subject: Re: It won't start!!

At 02:21 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey folks ...
>Well, this should be a simple problem, but I can't solve it (yet), so
I'm >looking for advice. > >My 74 Ninety-Eight (455 cid.) won't start
... since Tuesday morning > >The important details: >1.  The battery is
good (although it is getting cranky [ha ha] not getting >charged) >2.  I
replaced the spark plugs this afternoon.  They fire when removed from
>the engine with the cable attached and grounded. >3.  No problem with
fuel flow (In fact, it's occured to me that the engine >flooded, but
it's been 2 days now).  I believe that I have the  famous >"well-plug"
problem, but other than this, the car's never had fuel-related >starting
problems. >4.  The engine grounds are good. >5.  I drove for about 4
miles Tuesday morning, shut it down, came back 3 >hours later: doesn't
start. >6.  The temperature is around freezing here these days. > >Am I
overlooking something obvious? Or subtle? > >I guess there could be
problems with the timing (chain, distributor, >camshaft: the engine has
about 150,000 miles on it), but I wouldn't think a >problem like that
would arise suddenly.  It ran very nicely up till >yesterday. > >Anyway,
if anyone has any ideas, please let me know.  I've never been >unable to
solve an automotive problem, and have never had a car towed >because it
broke down (just matters of pride, of course) ... > >Thanks ... >
>Graham Stewart >Toronto, Canada >graham.stewart@utoronto.ca > The
timing sprocket that the factory put on the camshaft is an aluminum
spider, with a plastic spur gear attached to its circumference.  These
have the nasty habit of shedding their teeth, and many of them have come
apart well before 150,000 miles.  Remove the cap from the distributor
and see if the rotor turns when the engine is cranked.  If it doesn't
turn the problem is 99.999% the cam shaft timing gear.  And yes it works
one minute; and doesn't the next.

Another spark inhibitor is a failing coil; although they will usually
run the car cold, but as things heat up it fails.

The it worked this morning, but refuses to do anything now; almost
instant failure really does indicate the cam gear problem as being the
most likely. It is a quick check, but several hours work to change out.

Cliff Feiler
Oldsmobilist

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:48:17 -0400
Subject: Re: It won't start!!

>The it worked this morning, but refuses to do anything now; almost
instant >failure really does indicate the cam gear problem as being the
most likely. >It is a quick check, but several hours work to change out.


Since there is spark at the plugs, I'd venture to say your problem is
~not~ likely that extreme.  You mentioned it being cold out, (first time
being cold, I think?)  Any cold weather and problems begin at the same
time, it is a good idea to check out the choke (or choke out the checks,
or something like that!)  Check your oil first.  Does it smell like gas?
If the choke is sticking, and you have a flooding problem that's
~really~ bad, your oil will have a good supply of fuel in it.  Usually,
if an engine gets flooded badly, the plugs get wet, and won't fire under
pressure.  Its much easier for the current to flow through that nice
conducting trail of moisture than it is to jump that monster gap down
there!!  My ~worst~ flooding case ever happenned last winter, and to
this day I don't know what caused it for sure.  There was fuel standing
1/2 inch deep in the intake!!!  To clear this out, I pinched off the
fuel line, pulled all the plugs, and cranked it for a while, until the
battery was unable to do so anymore.  I had the throttle and secondaries
propped open, and placed a magnetic block heater on the intake ~for a
couple days!~  This dried things out quite well!!!  I put in ~new~ spark
plugs, and my old Holley that I never liked, and she fired up "first
pull"  I really liked the throttle response of that Holley, it just
couldn't do anything else!
     Anyway, if an engine is flooded, you should always pull ~all~ of
the plugs, and either burn them (with a torch, until they are good and
dry) or replace them, which is much quicker, and you don't burn
yourself.  Ya know them Splitfires you've been wanting for
Christmas....??  Anyway, many independant shops, when the pull in a
"winter no-starter," will first change the plugs, and then check the car
out.  When it's forty below, you don't want to be out there changing
plugs three or four times, so I can see the advocation of new ones.
     Did your plugs seem at all wet or dark?  That would be my first
suggestion.
     Also, if your choke ~has~ been sticking, don't forget to change the
oil.  I've seen chokes that can add a full quart or more to the
crankcase. Ya know what it's putting in there?!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Mennonite Diesels

There are a group of Mennonites living across the road from me.  They
have a very lovely farm, and what is arguably the handsomest house in
the neightborhood.  Their passion though, at least from my experience,
seems to be cooking, and putting up signs.  All the time there is a
sign up saying something to the affect of the Lord has come.  Imagine
guests suprise, when the travel 15 miles out into the country, hit a
one lane road, go around several hairpin curves on the one lane road,
and suddenly, right across the road from my driveway, they see a sign
that says "The end of the world is near!"  True story!

Of course, these are wonderful, friendly, people.  I could never say
anything bad about them.  If a group of mennonites ever invites you to
dinner, GO!  I think the ones near me drive a near new Z71 Chevy Truck,
and I'm pretty sure an old Cutlass diesel (yah, I know, point proven.)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-13 00:52:57 EST, you write:
>
> > And the diesel cars are acceptable, while the gasoline versions are
not, > >  because diesel fuel is less "refined", and thus more natural
than > gasoline. > >  I don't know their views on LPG or propane-powered
cars; we kinda skipped > >  over that chapter in my "American Religion"
class. > > > > Had to read this a couple of time before it sunk in,
I'm kinda dense today. >  I don't think it's an issue of diesel fuel
being more acceptable than > gasoline.  It's more a matter of (A) many
Mennonites are farmers and have > diesel powered vehicles on the farms.
Diesel fuel is readily available down > at the barn for many of them,
and when the diesels break down (do they do > that?), these fellas can
jumps right under the hood and repair whats needed > because they have
the experience from dealing with the tractors and (B) > Mennonites are
known for being, well, frugal is a good word I think.  They > were able
to purchase these vehicles used at rock bottom prices and they love >
the fuel mileage.  And even though Mennonites are supposed to shy away
from > things that are "flashy", around here they seem to have an
appetite for > Oldses and Buicks, especially Ninety Eights, 88s, Park
Aves and LeSabres. >  And the younger generation gets a kick out of Z28s
and Firebirds and > Mustangs and such -- and they ain't always "black
bumpers" either! > > Paul > >

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:48:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter..:(

Steve Bento sez:

> Today was the first day I had to break out the old ice scraper(I hate
> winter) If it wasn't for snow skiing I would definetly be moving
south..:)

It was also the same day I first saw.... S-N-O-W fall :(
I dorve through a mini-snow squall on the Mass Pike, while heading
home... just as I passed Exit 13 in Framingham, going west.  Luckily,
about 1.5 miles later, I was through it and it was sunny again :)

New England weather... if you don't like it, drive to the next exit!
(With apologies to Samuel Clemens)



Tim (128 Days and Counting 'til big Red Wakes up Again) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:01:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

I sed:

> > And in the Motorcycle category....
> >
> >  Kawa-Smokey
> >  Yama-HaHaHa
> >
>

I could add that all Triumphs, Nortons, BSAs and Royal Enfields are
collectively called "Limey Leakers" -- and my two Trumpets of yore lived
up to the nick :P Paul H. sez:

> How 'bout
>
> Hardly Drivensome - Motor Troubles
>

Blaspher! :)



Tim (The Once and Future Harley Owner) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:09:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

Paul H. sez:
>
> > How 'bout
> >
> > Hardly Drivensome - Motor Troubles
> >
>
I mis-typed:

> Blaspher! :)

Yeah, yeah... shoulda been blasphemer.



Tim (Who Maybe Needs a Spell Checker on His Mailtool) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:27:38 -0400
Subject: RCPT: 1977 Cutlass S

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    13 Nov 96  9:58
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: 1977 Cutlass S

Was read at 9:27, 14 Nov 96.

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:37:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

> Charlie wrote:
> >
> > Is that '85(I think) Car Craft "Darth Vader" there?  If I remember
> > right, that's where it finally called itself home.  That's the
> > handling package car with 16" wheels, dropped, and aero package,

Mike Turley wrote:
> If you are referring to the "Aerotech" - a single seat race car
> looking thing - then, Yes, it is there.  Has HUD, as well, I think.

Actually, I think it's the Cutlass Supreme done in all-black with
come really cool looking aero skirts, a real V8 (ain't no 180HP
307!), battery transplanted to trunk for larger air intake placement,
etc.  I remember the origional article in Car Craft, or C&D, or
possibly Hot Rod, that also had a FWD Calais (I think) and another
car - possibly a Ciera GT?  It's been a while, but I definately
remember the CS......

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:23:10 -0400
Subject: Re: ECM Problems

>If you press on the ecm and the car is better it could be that the
circut
>board is bent due to heat. I have seen it happen before. let me know
what
>happens.

This must be what's happening with mine.  As long as pressure is
placed on the middle of the ECM, everything works as normal.  I've
wedged a flat metal bar between the ECM and the floor near the seat...
.after finding the "right spot", I've now driven about 550 miles
without any problems.

Wierd, huh?

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:47:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Mennonite Diesels

At 08:06 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>There are a group of Mennonites living across the road from me.  They
>have a very lovely farm, and what is arguably the handsomest house in
the >neightborhood.  Their passion though, at least from my experience,
seems >to be cooking, and putting up signs.  All the time there is a
sign up >saying something to the affect of the Lord has come.  Imagine
guests >suprise, when the travel 15 miles out into the country, hit a
one lane >road, go around several hairpin curves on the one lane road,
and >suddenly, right across the road from my driveway, they see a sign
that >says "The end of the world is near!"  True story! > >Of course,
these are wonderful, friendly, people.  I could never say >anything bad
about them.  If a group of mennonites ever invites you to >dinner, GO!
I think the ones near me drive a near new Z71 Chevy Truck, >and I'm
pretty sure an old Cutlass diesel (yah, I know, point proven.) > >Peace,
Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling, >Clayton Pierce
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu > >On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 PHartlieb@aol.com
wrote: > >> In a message dated 96-11-13 00:52:57 EST, you write: >> >>
> And the diesel cars are acceptable, while the gasoline versions are
not, >> >  because diesel fuel is less "refined", and thus more natural
than >> gasoline. >> >  I don't know their views on LPG or
propane-powered cars; we kinda skipped >> >  over that chapter in my
"American Religion" class. >> > >> >> Had to read this a couple of
time before it sunk in, I'm kinda dense today. >>  I don't think it's an
issue of diesel fuel being more acceptable than >> gasoline.  It's more
a matter of (A) many Mennonites are farmers and have >> diesel powered
vehicles on the farms.  Diesel fuel is readily available down >> at the
barn for many of them, and when the diesels break down (do they do >>
that?), these fellas can jumps right under the hood and repair whats
needed >> because they have the experience from dealing with the
tractors and (B) >> Mennonites are known for being, well, frugal is a
good word I think.  They >> were able to purchase these vehicles used at
rock bottom prices and they love >> the fuel mileage.  And even though
Mennonites are supposed to shy away from >> things that are "flashy",
around here they seem to have an appetite for >> Oldses and Buicks,
especially Ninety Eights, 88s, Park Aves and LeSabres. >>  And the
younger generation gets a kick out of Z28s and Firebirds and >> Mustangs
and such -- and they ain't always "black bumpers" either! >> >> Paul >>
 >> > > You make an interesting point, that diesel fuel is less
refined.  Gasoline is lighter, boils at a lower temperature, and comes
out of the distilling tower first, diesel fuel is the next set of
molicules, so it comes off next. So actually it is in the process
longer, it is more refined!!!  I expect that that is a clumbsy reason
for your neighbors to have a diesel car.  I think they have telephones
too.

I had an Amish aquantance that has a car, and all of the chrome is
painted black.  Maybe someday theywill catch up with the Mennonites.

Cliff Feiler



------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:45:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Rochester in my Ninety Eight 1964

Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi> wrote:
> I still have problems with my Rochester carb.

I'm guessing you have a 394 with a Rockchester 4GC.  If you have a Rock.
2bbl,  I'd find a 4bbl 394 intake and move up to a 4bbl.  If you can't
find a 4bbl intake,  there are about 20 in a junkyard 20 miles west of
me.

The old 4GC's are basically junk.  The quality of the rebuild kits have
gotten incredibly poor.  and even if you get it running perfectly, you
still have a 4GC!

> Do you guys have any suggestions for a good carburetor.

Buy an Edelbrock AFB or a Carter AFB.  it is a bolt on replacement for
a 4GC.  You will be very happy with the results.  the throttle response
is great,  if you get the electric choke (which I strongly urge you
to do)  you'll find it works great out of the box too.  On the two AFB
I've put on my street cars, all the tuning that was required was setting
the idle (but only on one of them).   the Edelbrock and Carter units are
almost indentical (made from the same castings) except the Carter is a
625cfm and the Edelbrock is a 600cfm, and the Carter costs $20-30 more.
there is also a 750cfm variant,  but for a mild 330 or 394, a 600/625
will deliver better performance.

>
> Would it be possible to put fuel injection into my olds ?
> (hope this does not sound silly, asking anyway)

yes, holley makes the best fuel injection units that you could bolt on
to your 64 394 (or 330?).  its a throttle bosdy unit (no port
injectors), I've heard good things about,  the setup can improve
economy, throttle response and still keep the performance of a carb.
you need to run a second fuel line back to the tank (return line),  and
install an electric fuel pump, and O2 sensors in the exhaust.  It comes
with a small computer, and a tuning box that can let you fine tune the
fuel/air mix while driving for idle, off-idle to mid range, and again
for high rpm.

email me if you have any questions.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:01:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 96-11-13 10:16:01 EST, you write:
>
> > Teal Frost outside, Parchment inside
>
> Well, then, I don't know the trim you're talking about is blue.  Must
have > been replaced by a former owner and blue is the only color they
could find.

I am talking about the molding on the front window frame.  It looks like
a
piece of vinyl covered foam with a metal? support plate.  When looking
at the
back of the molding you can see that this was blue at one time.  I am
just
wondering if it came white or blue originally.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:03:37 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT ROD Magazine - Awesome Pic

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> Well this car belongs to Bill Trovato from NY.  The picture was taken
> at Norwalk Raceway in OH at the Mondello Olds Nats last July 96.
> What the article fails to say is that the car runs 10 teens on motor

This is from a stock Aurora?  Damn!

> and then 9 sevens on Nitros. The car is awesome and is painted the

Double Damn!

> color of red eventhought the pic is B&W.  He will be at the 97
Mondello\

Red is a favorite of police ;-)

> Olds Nats, so please attend.

Where is this at?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:06:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

Bradley Otto wrote:

> In '68, all Oldsmobiles transmissions (4 speed or automatic) had a 1:1
ratio > in last gear.  What determines the top speed capability of the
car is the > rear end ratio.  A 2.78 ratio rear end can achieve a lot
higher top end > speed than a 3.91 ratio.  A 2.78 rear end will run 165
mph at 6,000 rpm > while a 3.91 will run 120 mph at 6,000 rpm.  The 3.91
just gets to that 120 > mph mark a whole lot quicker than the 2.56!

Thanks Brad.  I guess I ask a dumb question in that how can one
determine
this gear ratio?  I would guess that mine is a 3.91 since I doubt that
my car
could go 165mph.  On the other hand, when I was going 110mpg the other
day
I certainly wasn't flooring the car.  Go figure.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:28:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> Wow!
>
> That is just the colors of my '68 442 convertible.  I wonder how many
> there are like that?

Well I have sinned Bill. :-)  I repainted the outside and every visible
place
with a different shade of blue.  Sort of a dark-medium blue metallic.
She
is pretty though.  She is a favorite of young men.  A lot of under 30
men
always nod in acceptance when the see her.  I sure get a rush when
people
appreciate my car.  I haven't given her a name yet though.  My other
Olds
that I owned I called Beatrice (the name came from the ether, who
knows).

If anyone who reads this can think of a cute name, I am all ears
(actually
eyes since this is e-mail :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:11:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times   (long)

FWIW, I once was the owner of a 68 4-4-2 that had been one of the 400, 2
 barrel carb, TH400, with a 2.78 (?) ratio non posi rear. When I got
it, it had a 455 in it. What had been a gentlemans 4-4-2 had been
transformed into a topend terror. One early morning going home from work
 I decided to see what it would do. On a divided 4 lane highway with no
 traffic I opened it up. The speedo was goofy so I had no idea how fast
I went. But, after a short while the car became quiet inside (with
glasspacks no less) and I started hearing the air flexing the roof. A
short time later the car started floating on the road surface. I was
straddling the center line of my two lanes due to the slight crown in
the road. I had a mental flash of Winston Cup cars getting loose due to
air flow. I then slowly backed off the gas and slowed it down. I make no
 claims as to how fast this thing was going but I had not experienced
anything like that before or sense. I never pushed that 68 that far
again. It was slightly unsettling (scary as h**l) My 70 4-4-2 with 3.42
axle will go 130 mph and I have had it there so I know how that feels
and it is nothing like that 68.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:40:17 -0400
Subject: So long, Cowboy

A couple of days ago, Dave Isho posted an article that mentioned John
Rock's retirement from Olds.

The following appeared in the October 28, 1996 issue of AutoWeek:
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

		        So long, Cowboy
		Our 10 favorite John Rock-isms
		   Why We'll Miss Him Dept.

1. July 1992, on presidential candidate Ross Perot:

	"Unlike the American public, GM's problem is that all we have to go
	 on is firsthand knowledge."

2. October 1992, after The Washington Post quoted anonymous sources
saying
   GM planned to dump Oldsmobile:

	"You're looking at one pissed-off cowboy.  There's somebody out
	 there trying to shoot my horse.  And I want to put out a reward for
	 this guy named anonymous."

3. Later in the same press conference:

	"I don't think I've got a problem.  That's why we're here.  If we
	 had a problem, I wouldn't be standing up here making an ass of
	 myself."

4. November 1992, on reshaping Oldsmobile:

	"We didn't have any success to cloud our decision-making process."

5. January 1993, on eventually retiring:

	"When this thing gets to where I think it should be, you'll know
	 it's there when you see my ass headed for Montana."

6. February 1993, on Oldsmobile advertising:

	"We change theme lines like most people change underwear.  Maybe we
	 need a couple of years without one."

7. February 1993, on the formation of the Olds Board of Governance:

	"All my life I wanted to be the king.  I finally get here and what
	 the hell do they do?  They declare it a democracy."

8. October 1993, on having to skip the annual model year kickoff dinner
   with the media:

	"Too bad.  This is usually the night I get drunk and utter classic
	 career-shortening statements."

9. February 1994, on the slow ramp-up of Aurora:

	"The Aurora will have a natural birth, not a C-section.  Olds has
	 given America enough do-it-yourself kits."

10. December 1994, on possible Aurora exports:

	"My biggest export market is Los Angeles."

- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew
Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/_____________________________________________
_____

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:43:55 -0400
Subject: Re: A funny thing happened to me at our Olds chapter meeting...

Jeff,

Your story brought a few tears to my eyes.  Maybe you will get your
baby back.  BTW why did you let her go?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:30:41 -0400
Subject: RCPT: 1977 Cutlass S

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    13 Nov 96  9:58
    To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: 1977 Cutlass S

Was read at 10:30, 14 Nov 96.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: Rick Kromeich <rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:48:11 -0400
Subject: Thanks

Thanks to all who responded to my request of decoding a vin for my '72
Cutlass Supreme convertible. You guys were right on and confirmed that
what I have is mostly original except for the drivetrain. Now that I
know this, it brings up a question, what models got the hood with the
louvers vs. the plain hood. I've got the plain jane hood on mine but
have a louvered hood that I could use. I thought the Supreme's came with
the louvered hood, am I wrong?

For you Chicago lads - anyone know of an engine specialist that I can
take my car to.  It still has that annoying knock. It's not coming from
down low but I've replaced the fuel pump, thinking it may be the arm,
and replaced some rocker arms, all to little avail.  I need an expert
opinion that I can trust. Any ideas?  BTW, Andy - thanks again for the
photos!  The Fuddrucker's meet was cool, but too bad it is too cold
outside to be doing another anytime soon.

Lastly, I've seen "Setting the Pace" at a bookstore by me for $19.99 and
haven't picked it up yet - but will do.  I would check your area stores
as they may be there now.

Thanks again!
- -Rick

rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:56:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

Chris,

I just joined this mail list yesterday afternoon and didn't see your
original message, but have seen at least one of the replies.  I
thought that I would let you know that my first car was a 1968 442
Holiday Coupe with an automatic and the 3.08:1 positraction
differential.  I purchased this car in the fall of 1968, off the used
car lot at Charnock Oldsmobile in Dearborn Michigan, and it had about
3000 miles it.  Over the next four years and 70,000 miles, I made
many modifications to the interior, but almost none to the
powertrain.  Once, while the car was equipped with the ram air setup
off a 1968 Hurst/Olds (standard W-30, 31, 32 setup) and riding on
G60x14 Goodyear Polyglass GT tires (mounted on 1970 Super Stock III
14x7 wheels), I saw the speedometer needle pointed straight down at
6,000 rpm in third gear.  The fella in the 427 Corvette which was
running next to me at the time, later said that his speedometer was
about a needle's width past 140, so we figured the speed at about
145.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:09:43 -0400
Subject: Welcome!

> I just joined this mail list yesterday afternoon and didn't see your
>

Snip

> ****************************************************
> Thomas G. Stoner
> Senior Computer Systems Specialist
> MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
> University of Michigan Medical Center
> Ann Arbor, Michigan
> tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
> ****************************************************
>
>

Tom,

Welcome to the list!  I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Introduce yourself, please.  Include current Olds'es.  BTW, I can see
UofM Hospital, as I write, from my office on Main St.  It's neat to
find another list member so close by.

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:21:06 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: ECM Problems

Sounds like there is a broken trace on the PC board, or a marginal
solder connection.  One trick for marginal solder connections is to
reheat each one.  Because there are probably heat sensitive components
on the PC board, have someone who knows about components use a heat
sink to protect each component as the solder connections are reheated.

If a break is found, a jumper can be added.  If the trace doesn't split,
the jumper can go directly onto each component's leg.  If it splits,
it's a bit difficult, especially with multi layer boards.  Have someone
knowledgeable with PC boards do either job.

Or you could be on the lookout for one at your local parts yard(s).  You
must get an ECM from a car equipped with pretty much the same
accessories as your car.  I know AC, PS, ABS, 3 or 4 speed trans,
manual or auto trans make a difference.  There are also PROM revision
levels, hopefully some sort of easily identifiable, decipherable, and
ascending number is on the PROM.  I would believe a higher number would
indicate a later revision.  Either transplant your ECM's PROM or find an
ECM with the same or later revision.  Good luck!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -------------
This must be what's happening with mine.  As long as pressure is
placed on the middle of the ECM, everything works as normal.  I've
wedged a flat metal bar between the ECM and the floor near the seat...
.after finding the "right spot", I've now driven about 550 miles
without any problems.

Wierd, huh?

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:34:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Hardtop to Convertible

Hi all!

I wanted to share a folly of mine with the group.  What is a little
folly among friends.  I contemplated converting my 68 442 hardtop to a
convertible.  Yes you read it right.  I love convertibles and would
love to have one.  Someone I know said for $3,000 I could have one.
After looking at Chris Witt's convertible I don't see how mine could
be made convertible.  His car's rear quarter panels look different
than mine.  I can't see where one would cut and have it look good.  I
probably should just look for a Delta 88 convertible instead.  Just
my thoughts.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:40:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

>I have to write this again MOPAR - Must Own Pickup And Rope

you forgot M ove O ver P ontiacs A re R acing!

Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/
Cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Combination, 1966 Pontiac
GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac
Seville, 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series
75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Crown, 1973 Buick Riviera, 1968
Chrysler Newport, 1972 Ford LTD, 1976 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:57 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Neutral_switch

          I've been following this thread for some time, and I think
          you folks have been making this harder than it really is.

              __________________________________________________
             |          ______|___________________________       <----|

             |         |      |                            <-|        |
          ___|      ___|   ___|                              |        |
               A                 Slider Contact        Green Wires    |
               |---------------> Connected To          (Backup Lites) |
          ___  V    ___    ___   Shift Linkage               |        |
           P |       R |    N |                              |  Purple
Wires
             |         |______|___________________________ <-   (Start
Circuit)
             |________________|_________________________________ <----|

          This represents the electrical schematic of the switch.
          Mechanically, there are fixed contacts in the body of the
          switch and a slider which is connected to the shift linkage
          and alternately makes contact with the neutral start or
          backup light contacts, depending on shifter position.

          There are basically two types of neutral safety/backup light
          switches used on GM automatics:  console-mounted (with a
          straight-line action) and column-mounted (which are curved
          to fit the steering column), however both work the same way.
          Note that starting in 1969, with the advent of the steering
          column lock which was also required to lock the shifter, GM
          went to a backdrive linkage from the transmission to the
          steering column which connected the shift linkage (even when
          using a column shifter) to the shift tube in the steering
          column.  This linkage allowed the column lock to also lock
          the shifter in Park.  It had the added advantage of keeping
          the column common between floor and column shifters and thus
          let GM use a column-mounted neutral switch in all AT cases.
          Note that it is often necessary to remove or modify this
          backdrive linkage (the bar which goes between the frame and
          the trans gear selector lever) to install headers, so your
          car may not have it - although if it has been removed you
          have defeated the neutral switch and your backup lights will
          not come on.  Again, this applies to 1969 and later cars
          only.

          While I can't speak to the later computer controlled cars
          (although I'll bet they work the same way), the neutral
          safety switch is simply hardwired in series with the starter
          circuit.  There are no electronics involved -  the sliding
          contact simply closes the circuit to the starter when the
          shifter is either in park or neutral.

          The linkage connecting the sliding contact to the shift
          linkage is not adjustable, so switch alignment is
          accomplished by moving the switch housing, which is
          typically mounted with two sheet metal screws through
          slotted holes in the switch body.  While there is a
          procedure for doing this which involves a tooling pin to
          align the slider with the body, the easy way is to put the
          car in neutral, pull off the purple wires from the switch,
          loosen the screws retaining the switch, and move the switch
          back and forth until a VOM or test light shows contact
          across the two terminals.  Be careful not to move the switch
          too far, as you want to be aligning on the "neutral"
          position set of contacts, not the "park" set (although this
          will be pretty obvious, as the park set of contacts is all
          the way at one end of the switch - I doubt there is enough
          adjustment in the slots in the switch to reach there).
          Tighten the screws holding the switch when done.

          The reason you want to adjust in neutral and not park is
          that the park set of contacts is wider than the neutral set,
          to allow for tolerances and slop in the linkage.  This would
          also explain the failure mode seen by one member where the
          car would start in park, but not neutral -  a little wear in
          the linkage or slippage in the switch would move the neutral
          set of contacts just enough to prevent closing the circuit.
          It is highly unlikely that the contacts, especially in the
          neutral position, have been damaged since one rarely starts
          the car in neutral and thus doesn't have the chance to arc
          those contacts.  It is not out of the question, however.

          The switch configuration for a manual transmission is a
          little different.  Again, there is a difference between 1968
          and earlier cars and 1969 and later, due to the column lock.
          In all cases, the neutral safety switch is actually a clutch
          pedal-activated switch.  The backup lights are controlled by
          a separate switch which is mounted on the shift linkage for
          the early cars and on the steering column for the later ones
          (again, using the same backdrive linkage mentioned above).
          I think the 1969 and up cars actually use the AT switch and
          just don't use the neutral safety contacts (they are
          replaced by the clutch switch).

          Hope this long-winded post helps shed some light.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Lord Raiden, God of Thunder and Lightning & Protector of the
Realm of Earth" <wsaplan@ vt.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:49:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Neutral_switch

        Who the hell are you and how did you get my address?

				William S. Saplan

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:14:33 -0400
Subject: Side window glass for '74 Omega 4dr

     A gal I work with has a '74 Omega as her daily driver.  It was
broken
     into a while back and one of the windows got busted.  None of the
     glass shops around town can locate a replacement, and no junkyards
     around here have Omegas that old.  If anyone can help me find the
part
     for her, I'd appreciate it.

     Needed is the driver's side rear window glass for a '74 Omega
4-door.
     Not the door window, the small triangular "wing" window (I think
     that's what it's called) on the rear door.  Thanks!

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com


------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:41:09 -0400
Subject: '73 Cutlass S for sale in paper...Sounds like a deal.

	Hey guys!  I found this Cutlass for sale in the local paper....
	
	
		1973 Cutlass S
		Excellent condition,
		service records,
		350 V8, air,
		2 door,
		1 owner.


	Sound like a nice car?  Now heres the kicker-- it says he only
wants....$949.
	Thats right.  Just under a grand.  Now, I don't know if
it's a missprint, or what kind of shape the thing is in, but if it's all
it's cracked up to be, man what a deal!  I tried calling the guy
yesterday, but only got his machine (left message) and I'll try again
today.  Even though I really can't afford another car right now I'd like
to see if it's as good as it sounds.
	
	If anybody else is interested let me know now, cause if it has'nt
sold yet, it will soon!  The phone number is local, so it should be
located in or around Missoula, Montana.  Let me know what you think...
	
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:48:17 -0400
Subject: Re: So long, Cowboy

>		        So long, Cowboy
>		Our 10 favorite John Rock-isms
>		   Why We'll Miss Him Dept.

>5. January 1993, on eventually retiring:
>
>	"When this thing gets to where I think it should be, you'll know
>	 it's there when you see my ass headed for Montana."
>

I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for him!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:44:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Trunk releases

> I'm not sure when they started, but my '61 has this option.  Kinda
nice > too.  I can keep the car unlocked, but still have my trunk secure
as > long > as I leave the glovebox locked.  On mine, their is a metal
T-handle > which I pull, you hear a gentle "hisssss", and the trunk
comes up.


	My '60 has one too, although I've never seen it work (trunk latch
is really screwed up.)  I'm pretty sure they were available in '59 too,
but I don't really know how much earlier they were made.  Neat idea
though.
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:48:19 -0400
Subject: Re: A funny thing happened to me at our Olds chapter meeting...


>Jeff,
>
>Your story brought a few tears to my eyes.  Maybe you will get your
>baby back.  BTW why did you let her go?

Ooh, the question that ranks #1 in the "Don't Ask" section of every auto
lover in the world.  If I may assume, he's asked the same question to
himself hundreds of times, and still has no answer, just like the rest
of us...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:06:48 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT ROD Magazine - Awesome Pic

>WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>> Well this car belongs to Bill Trovato from NY.  The picture was taken
>> at Norwalk Raceway in OH at the Mondello Olds Nats last July 96.
>> What the article fails to say is that the car runs 10 teens on motor
>
>This is from a stock Aurora?  Damn!

Umm, I think we had a picture change somewhere.  The last I'd seen, it
was a 455.  Page 12, Dec Hot Rod...  Did he do a quick engine swap that
I missed?

It ~is~ an awesome shot, tho.  That's gotta be hard on bumpers!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:06:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Hardtop to Convertible

>Hi all!
>
>I wanted to share a folly of mine with the group.  What is a little
>folly among friends.  I contemplated converting my 68 442 hardtop to a
>convertible.  Yes you read it right.  I love convertibles and would
>love to have one.  Someone I know said for $3,000 I could have one.

A few years back, there was a '73(?) Toro convertible running around
here. Costed well under $3000.  The problem was he could never get the
top to go up.  I think he probably needed a new chainsaw blade, too, but
I couldn't say for sure!!!  Remember "The Wild Life?"  It looked similar
to that Gimpala convertible that they had.  (I think that was the show,
anyway) Primer grey, sharp metal, ~definate~ head turner!  Last I'd seen
of ~that~ Toro was in a local salvage lot, and I think it recieved more
body customizing there.  Let's see, was it chopped or channelled, or,
no, that's right, "crushed" I believe is the word I'm looking for!  I'm
assuming you're looking for something more conventional, tho.  If I
remember right, there was some kind of difference in the quarters on
those.  You could make it a convert., but it would not have the factory
appearance.  It would be a custom aftermarket looking type of thing, I
imagine.  I know the Buick converts had a different frame, (stronger)
but the GS and GSX used the Convert frame for strength.  I'm not sure
about Olds's strategy there.
     I don't know if this helps any, but with any luck, you'll get a
chuckle at least... :) Good luck...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:06:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

The fella in the 427 Corvette which was
>running next to me at the time, later said that his speedometer was
>about a needle's width past 140, so we figured the speed at about
>145.

I take it you wanted to see how fast ~his~ car could go?  How long did
you let him stay beside you?
     (Ya reading this Jason L.?  It's been a whole day since I got to
knock Chevy, so, ya know, I ~had~ to ask!!!)  :)

Welcome aboard, Thomas.  We all like to have fun here too...  :)



      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

>
>Actually, I think it's the Cutlass Supreme done in all-black with
>come really cool looking aero skirts, a real V8 (ain't no 180HP
>307!), battery transplanted to trunk for larger air intake placement,
>etc.  I remember the origional article in Car Craft, or C&D, or
>possibly Hot Rod, that also had a FWD Calais (I think) and another
>car - possibly a Ciera GT?  It's been a while, but I definately
>remember the CS......
>
Yup, that'd be the one.  They called it the FE3X handling package, and
nicknamed it Darth Vader.  It was from the Aug. '87 Car Craft.  It's a
Concept Car based on the '85 442, designed by Bill Porterfield.
     You can see the whole article here:
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/fe3x.htm
     It's a slow-loader, cuz the whole pages are scanned, instead of
text converted.  Don't hit the pages much if you can help it, cuz they
are ~not~ supposed to be there.  I've killed all links to it so that
it's not easily accessible, but I haven't gotten around to taking it all
the way down yet. They said since it's creation in '85, the FE3X had
gone through several engines, including a special swirl port 200 horse
307 with dual cats. and headers... The links ~back~ to the Olds Archive
are no longer functional, so you'll need to use the back button to get
out of there, as I recall.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:07:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

>I mis-typed:
>
>> Blaspher! :)
>
>Yeah, yeah... shoulda been blasphemer.

But you know, I actually read it as blasphemer.  Didn't even notice it!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:34:33 -0400
Subject: H/O Pricing

Does anyone here have any recent experience buying, selling, or
checking out a 1979 Hurst/Olds that was for sale?  I have a black
one, with less than 36,000 miles on it that I would like to sell, but
I don't really know how the prices are running for such a beast these
days.  In advance, thanks for any information you might be able to
provide.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:40:34 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT ROD Magazine - Awesome Pic

In a message dated 96-11-14 10:08:05 EST, you write:

<< Mondello\

 Red is a favorite of police ;-)

 > Olds Nats, so please attend.

 Where is this at?

 Chris Sparks

  >>
It is held at Norwalk Raceway Park in Norwalk Ohio.  20 miles south
of Cedar Point.  The Mondello Olds Nationals will be held on the Third
Sunday of July 1997.  I received a letter from Mondello saying he needs
more attendance or this could be the last year for this event.  So I am
trying to Rally people to go to the track and either race, show or just
go and watch the Olds Nationals and see how an Oldsmobile can really
perform.   For those that never heard of Cedar Point, CP is about 40
miles west of Cleveland Ohio.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:54:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Welcome!

Tom,

Welcome to the list!  I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Introduce yourself, please.  Include current Olds'es.  BTW, I can
see UofM Hospital, as I write, from my office on Main St.  It's neat
to find another list member so close by.

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

*****

Mike,

I'm a former OCA, H/OCA, and Toronado Chapter member who currently
owns a 1979 Hurst/Olds.  My first car was a 1968 442 Holiday Coupe,
which I purchased in the fall of 1968 from Charnock Oldsmobile in
Dearborn.  The Oldsmobiles which my wife and I have owned are:

     1968 442 coupe                   1979 Hurst/Olds (black)
     1972 442 W-30 coupe              1979 Toronado (diesel)
     1975 Starfire (V-6, 4-speed)     1987 Toronado Trofeo
     1976 Cutlass Supreme Brougham    1991 98 Regency
     1976 Cutlass Salon (T-Top)

With the exception of the H/O, which we've owned since 1981 when it
had 21,000 miles on the odometer, all have been purchased as new or
nearly new cars and kept for 2 to 5 years as daily drivers.  The H/O
has always been a third or fourth car and has been driven only
occasionally during the warmer months.  It currently has a little
over 35,000 miles on it and hasn't been licensed for the past two
years.

****************************************************
Thomas G. Stoner
Senior Computer Systems Specialist
MCIT - Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
University of Michigan Medical Center
Ann Arbor, Michigan
tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:14:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 05:06 PM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The fella in the 427 Corvette which was
>>running next to me at the time, later said that his speedometer was
>>about a needle's width past 140, so we figured the speed at about
>>145.
>
>I take it you wanted to see how fast ~his~ car could go?  How long did
you >let him stay beside you? >     (Ya reading this Jason L.?  It's
been a whole day since I got to knock >Chevy, so, ya know, I ~had~ to
ask!!!)  :) > >Welcome aboard, Thomas.  We all like to have fun here
too...  :) > > > >      Charley Buehner       |
"buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >      500 4th Ave.          |
"charley@rocketship.com" >      Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >      Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds
Cutlass 425 >      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > > I bought a new 1968 Corvette w/427
and it would indicate just over 160 mph before the points started to
float, of course indicated and actual are sort of heady in this range.
I always wondered what that car would have done with a bit more modern
HET ignition, or even a contemporary aftermarked dual point.

These hit so mamy times I don't know how provided it first, but the

        M ust O wn P ickup A nd R ope is wonderful

The Wizkid

------------------------------

From: "Lord Raiden, God of Thunder and Lightning & Protector of the
Realm of Earth" <wsaplan@ vt.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:20:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

        How the fuck do I get off this damn List server?!!!  I don't
even know why I'm on this damn thing and I'm sick of getting your
friggin mail!

				William S. Saplan

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:42:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

>X-Sender: wsaplan@mail.vt.edu
>Date: 	Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:20:15 -0400
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>From: "Lord Raiden, God of Thunder and Lightning & Protector of the
Realm of Earth" <wsaplan@vt.edu> >Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca >Reply-To:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca > >        How the fuck do I get off this damn
List server?!!!  I don't even >know why I'm on this damn thing and I'm
sick of getting your friggin mail! > >				William 
S. Saplan

I think you just did...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:23:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 11:06 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:

>could go 165mph.  On the other hand, when I was going 110mpg the other

>Chris Sparks
>68 442

If you were going 110mpg in a muscle car, let us all in on your
secret!!! :-)

____________________________
Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:46:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit

At 08:20 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>From: "Lord Raiden, God of Thunder and Lightning & Protector of the
Realm of >Earth" <wsaplan@vt.edu> >Subject: Re: Olds Museum Visit
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca >Reply-To:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca > >        How the fuck do I get off this damn
List server?!!!  I don't even >know why I'm on this damn thing and I'm
sick of getting your friggin mail! > >				William 
S. Saplan

Hey Sailor Moon... easy with the language.  I'm sure if you ask nicely
someone will tell you how.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:01:50 -0400
Subject: Another Jerk, Was: Olds Museum Visit

Lord Raiden, God of Thunder and Lightning & Protector of the Realm of
Earth wrote:
>
> How the f**k do I get off this damn List server?!!!  I don't even
> know why I'm on this damn thing and I'm sick of getting your friggin
> mail!
>                                 William S. Saplan

About now, we're pretty tired of you, too.  If you had read the greeting
 messages you received when you subscribed, you'd know how to
unsubscribe. But since that seems a little beyond your capabilities,
you might try sending a message of "unsubscribe oldsmobile" to
majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca

That is, if Greg hasn't already booted you sorry butt off...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:58:38 -0400
Subject: Horn relay, glowing GEN light

Hi, it's me again with that glowing GEN light.

A curious observation: the fuller the gas tank is, the dimmer the light
is. I've taken out the guage cluster, and there's nothing shorting on
the back of it.  Alternator, voltage regulator, etc have been replaced.
Ideas?

Is the small relay-looking thing mounted in the drivers side inner
fender the horn relay?  Does it have any effect on the cars charging
system?  Could it be part of the cause?

The battery charges fine, starts every time, etc, I just have that dumb
GEN idiot light glowing all the time. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:38:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Horn relay, glowing GEN light

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:
> Is the small relay-looking thing mounted in the drivers side inner
fender > the horn relay?  Does it have any effect on the cars charging
system?  Could > it be part of the cause?

Yes, I think so (I mean, there *is* a horn relay there on a '69, but I
haven't seen your car... maybe it's something else too!). You will see a
 hot lead from your battery cable going to it. Whether it does anything
 other than the horn and key buzzer I don't know.

> The battery charges fine, starts every time, etc, I just have that
dumb GEN > idiot light glowing all the time.

Remember the other day I said I had a solid-state regulator that went
bad on me? That was the symptom. Is your regulator solid-state as
opposed to the points kind? Might be the problem.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:49:05 -0400
Subject: Heater Core Mystery Solved

Recall on the weekend I posted a message about the mystery heater core
in my '64 A-body (it's a Skylark but I figure this is applicable to '64
 Cutlasses too... especially now - read on!)? When I returned the new
core to the parts store I brought the old one with me. Steve, my parts
guy (who happens to own a '68 Cutlass convertible himself) dug out all
of his catalogs and we were able to find a core that matched up in
terms of dimensions and inlet/outlet configurations. The one I had was
about 2" longer and 1/2" wider than what the catalog lists as what
should be in these cars.

It is from a 61-63 full-size Oldsmobile! It appears to be the exact core
that was in the convertible, although I guess I won't know for sure
until I go to install it, but it looks identical. How and why it got
there is a mystery to me too. There is no evidence that it is anything
other than what the factory installed at the time the car was built,
i.e. nothing looks hacked-up or otherwise tampered with. In fact, the
old core looks like it might be the original one. Strange...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:46:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Lloyd Culp wrote:
> > Wow!
> >
> > That is just the colors of my '68 442 convertible.  I wonder how
many > > there are like that? > > Well I have sinned Bill. :-)  I
repainted the outside and every visible > place > with a different shade
of blue.  Sort of a dark-medium blue metallic. > > > Chris Sparks


Chris,

No, No!  You haven't sinned.  Now I have the ooooooooooonly one in the
universe including Mars.  This is quite an honor.

In full confession, mine started as a teal paint & teal interior
scheme.  That blue vinyl on the header sounds like yours might have been
like mine originally.  The teal interior is definitely not even a close
match for the teal exterior & thus the planned change.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:20:00 -0400
Subject: Omega's

Hi,

Is the Omega Old's equivalent to a Nova?  I have never seen them in the
paper, but I saw a car which looked a lot like a Nova around town last
weekend, and the nameplate said Oldsmobile.  What's the scoop on this
car?  Did they come with 455's?!  And 4 speed's?  Even w/ only a Rocket
350 I bet this car could haul.  It's very small compared w/ the
Cutlass's (at least the car I thought could have been an Omega).

thanks,
anthony

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:31:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Horn relay, glowing GEN light

>Remember the other day I said I had a solid-state regulator that went
bad >on me? That was the symptom. Is your regulator solid-state as
opposed to >the points kind? Might be the problem.

Don't know if I've got points or solid state kind.  Replaced the thing
twice in the last eight months or so.  Of course, that doesn't mean it's
good... - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:41:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Jerk, Was: Olds Museum Visit

Do you think Mr. Saplan could be a little more rude?!

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:55:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> At 11:06 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >could go 165mph.  On the other hand, when I was going 110mpg the
other > > >Chris Sparks > >68 442 > > If you were going 110mpg in a
muscle car, let us all in on your secret!!! :-) > I'm a litle confused
here..what do you mean by the above sentence? "let us all in on your
secret!!!"  I've never had a car that didn't get up to 1200 without a
problem.  Even my 72 CS with a 350 and 4bbl had no problem, of course my
442 gets there (and beyond) faster.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:57:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> At 11:06 AM 11/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >could go 165mph.  On the other hand, when I was going 110mpg the
other > > >Chris Sparks > >68 442 > > If you were going 110mpg in a
muscle car, let us all in on your secret!!! :-) > I'm a litle confused
here..what do you mean by the above sentence? "let us all in on your
secret!!!"  I've never had a car that didn't get up to 120 without a
problem.  Even my 72 CS with a 350 and 4bbl had no problem, of course my
442 gets there (and beyond) faster.

Ooopppsss
sorry about the last one it should have read 120, not 1200

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:25:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 03:06 PM 11/14/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Bradley Otto wrote:
>
>> In '68, all Oldsmobiles transmissions (4 speed or automatic) had a
1:1 ratio >> in last gear.  What determines the top speed capability of
the car is the >> rear end ratio.  A 2.78 ratio rear end can achieve a
lot higher top end >> speed than a 3.91 ratio.  A 2.78 rear end will run
165 mph at 6,000 rpm >> while a 3.91 will run 120 mph at 6,000 rpm.  The
3.91 just gets to that 120 >> mph mark a whole lot quicker than the
2.78! > >Thanks Brad.  I guess I ask a dumb question in that how can one
>determine >this gear ratio?  I would guess that mine is a 3.91 since I
doubt that >my car >could go 165mph.  On the other hand, when I was
going 110mpg the other >day >I certainly wasn't flooring the car.  Go
figure. > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > Chris,

There is a 2 charachter code stamped on the backside of the right axle
housing of the rear end.  This code will tell you what ratio the rear
end is and whether or not it is posi.

Brad

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #367
********************************
 
