To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/08/96 05:13:12 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #324


oldsmobile-digest         Tuesday, 8 October 1996      Volume 01 : Number 324


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:17:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide tires for your pig?

>From: Stanfell Boone
>Date: Saturday, October 05, 1996 12:22AM
>They all seem to be pigs in the corners anyways.

I'm horrified by Stanfell Boone's "all seem to be pigs in the corners" 
comment.  Well, maybe horrifed is too strong.  My car can be a pig at the 
gas pump.  Anyway, the A-body is hardly a pig in the corners when properly 
prepared.  Try 15x8" rims, 60-series Gatorbacks, urethane bushings 
everywhere, rear sway bar, GM big car knuckles (for lower roll center) and 
TRW's '70 442 (non-AC) coil springs up front.  You'll have a pig that will 
corner beyond the limits of my courage.

I've run 245/60's on my 69 and 70 Olds A-bodies in both 14" and 15", using 
factory SSII wheels for both sizes.  Never had any problems.  245/60 is 
safe, but on the  ragged edge for 7" width wheels.  I used to run 30 psi to 
help keep them from squirming in the turns, but this was hard on the center 
sections of the rear tires (excessive wear) for straight line fun.  I 
 splurged on 15x8" Weld Racing forged aluminum wheels (HUGE savings in 
unsprung weight here) with 245/60 VR15 Gatorbacks.  In combination with the 
mods listed above (all of which are low key and pretty stock looking), I've 
pulled 0.9G in cornering with a Vericom measuring device.  This is right up 
there with a new Camaro/Firebird, and much more than that will require some 
oil pan mods to prevent starvation.  Car still has a nice ride too.  Long 
(by today's standards) wheelbase and 3850 lbs helps alot.

Go with the 245/60's, although I recommend 15" over 14", in case you decide 
to use the tires on another car/sell them used later on/ etc.  !5" is more 
desirable.  Try to buy all the tires the same size so you can rotate them to 
help avoid the wear problems I had.
Scott Mullen
'70 442  Oink Oink!

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:41:00 -0300
Subject: Re: OLDSPWR Battery Box Info Please!

On 5 OCT 96 at 1940 Tom Millard (OLDSPWR) wrote:
>Since my battery is in the trunk and I only had it in a plastic marine 
case, I had to >make a sealed metal box to comply with NHRA 1996 regs...

Tom,
My battery is also in the trunk, a recently completed project.  I have not 
been back to the strip with it yet.  I too have a (nice) heavy plastic 
marine case with tight fitting lid, securely held down with a 2" wide 
adjustable tow/lash down strap.  I have faith in its ability to contain the 
battery in the event of a roll over (it's much better than stock!).  Can you 
provide more details on the required box, so I can avoid the same fate as 
you?  Also, is an externally accessible cutoff switch required when the 
battery is trunk mounted?
Thanks!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:53:30 -0300
Subject: Article

Hey Greg Beaulieu, while at the all Olds show in
Olds, Alberta (July), I noticed an article in a 
magazine sitting on the seat on one of the cars 
that I thought had your name as the author.  The 
magazine was your standard 8.5 x 11" size and the 
pages were glossy and I believe the articles 
subject was on the internet.

Was that you?
What was the magazine/issue?

****************************

SG Hartfelder
Edmonton, AB  CANADA

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:20:27 -0300
Subject: Re: car stuff

Hey!  I'll comment on this because my other car is a dodge dart.

>Dodge Dart- I teach third grade special education and I
>voted for Eisenhower

I'm a unix sys admin, so yeah, thats actually pretty close to
teaching third grade special education (if you only knew my
users  :-)),  I didn't vote for eisenhower, in fact at the
time, my parents weren't even eligible to vote....

The only other Dodge Dart owner I can speak for is a guy I know
in alabama,  who doesn't teach 3rd grade education, but he does
drive an 11.30sec 340 powered 70 Dart (no bottle,no blower).
And no, I don't know if he has a toothbrush or not! :-)

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: David L Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:24:02 -0300
Subject: Just doing my part to help others see the light.

Last week the time came for me to place my 4-4-2 in storage. I fired it up
one last time to go for a short ride before it went into the trailer. The
15 year old boy across the street was watching and listening as it came to 
life. I backed out on the street and called out to him and asked if he would 
like a ride. He was in the passenger seat before you could say 4-4-2. He had 
told his mom that he would like to drive it "around the block once" a few
days earlier and I knew this. We motored down to the state highway and headed 
north out of town. After passing the city limit sign I eased it up to 60 mph.
About a half mile out I ran it up to 80 and then back down to 60. I turned 
around
at the county road north of town and headed back. This time it was a flat out,
power shifting, no holds barred run. I ran it up to 120 and then eased down to 
100.
As the kid reached for the dash I stabbed the gas, he never touched the dash.
We were back to town real soon and we cruised down the street slowly. When I
got back he said thanks and got out. Later when I spoke with his dad I asked 
him
what the boy said when he got back. "I gotta have one" was all he said.
For the record, I live in a small (800 pop.) community out in the sticks, the 
highway
I assulted is arrow straight and very lightly travelled, and no other vehicles
were encountered during this run.

Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2 

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:38:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling, some transporters 

 
 
Speaking of transporters--I got my 442 hauled up to Maryland from Georgia, 
cost $650 by 
Passport Transport.  I think they did a fine job, on time delivery, treated 
the car  
very carefully, and they took a credit card, which most of the companies I 
called did not. 
You can find their number in Hemmings or probably on the page Dave refers to 
here.... 
   
 
>http://www.car-nection.com/cgi-win/dspdlr.exe?transportation It has 12 links 
>to  auto transporter info pages. 
   
> >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net 
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!! 
      
   
 Todd Morris 
71 442  
 

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:02:28 -0300
Subject: Q-Jet Manuals 

Chris Fair wrote:

>>Is it possible to do this in one transaction? Also, if possible do you know
>>what the charges are for the books in binders complete shipped to my door?
I'm
>>unclear whehter it's $15, $36, 15+36, or 15+36+S/H. 

Chris, I think you must do it in two steps.  Just like any other bureaucracy
they have their way of doing things like it or not.  If I had it to do over
again I would have ordered the binders.  There is a -lot- of paper.  I
believe the $36 included the binders but I'm not sure.  The order form is
clear about it though.

Since the discussion on these manuals was a few months ago and there will be
new people asking what we are talking about, I'll explain briefly.

ACDelco has a fantastic set of books and parts listings for all GM
carburetors and some fuel injection systems for about $15 or $36 with the
binders.  This includes an apparent copy of the training materials used to
train techs.  This covers all the aspects of how a carburetor works, etc.
 Professionally done.  They are worth their weight in unobtanium.  This
opinion is not only my own, ask the folks who have ordered it that frequent
this list.  It covers everything, tune up specs, part numbers, metering rod
diameters, etc..  To order this gold mine send a letter to:

AC-DELCO
35000 INDUSTRIAL ROAD
LIVONIA, MI 48150-1250

ASK FOR ORDER FORM "MO 970"

ORDER PN 9XC ($15) OR 9X ($36) FOR HARDCOVER BINDER

(Sorry for the caps guys, I pasted this out of another document.)

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:02:32 -0300
Subject: Who'd wanted to drive that around town? 

Darren Shroeger wrote:

>>MT cars *were* in fact cammed hotter. Hottest of the hot would be the
>>'68 W30 MT with 328 degrees duration or something crazy like that. Whew!

>>Who'd want to drive that around town? But great on the dragstrip, I
suspect.
>>Then again, the G400's weren't the revvers that the earlier E400 was...

>>Anyone got experience dragging with a 68 W30 MT?

>>- -Darren Shroeger 

Well Darren, must be a sign that times have really changed.  You can't relate
to how it was it seems.  Don't feel bad.  It's not your fault.  Some of us
were born in "more interesting times" than others. :-)

It was a different time unfortunately.  I drove a '67 442 W-30 4-speed with
that very 328 degree, .474 lift cam.  A lot.  I still have one of those cams
by the way. It's used, probably no good.  I don't know why I kept it.  Maybe
I ought to get it bronzed or something. 

True the long stroke couldn't rev like the 65-67 but it was no slouch once
the racers (strip -and- street) figured out how to take advantage of the
torque. And of course, that was the days of the 5 year/50,000 mile warranty
programs.  A warrantied 455 could be obtained from a friendly dealer for the
right price.  Mine had a 425 from that very source.

Who wanted to drive those overheating, gas guzzling, rubber screeching, gear
grabbing muscle cars?  Why any red blooded male with a job that could afford
the payments!  And there were -lots- of them.  Cars and racers.  442's,
GTO's, Road Runner's, 440 6-paks, 3-deuce 'vettes, 4 speeds everywhere you
looked.

It -was- a blast.  Now all we can do is cruise once in a while.  Not nearly
as much fun as when a trip to the grocery store could serve up a stop light
contest.  Today there aren't many cars on the road that would be even fair
game for a stoplight blast. 

Not that I ever did that - or do it today.  No, I am a mature person
approaching eligibility for Social Security and MediCare.  If you believe
that.......
I like to think the ol' heart still pumps blood the way it did during the
muscle car days.  I love to see 5.0's and LT-1's while driving on of our
cars.  Dead meat.

'course, the newer cars run almost as fast, get pretty impressive fuel
mileage and handle and brake a bunch better.  For some reason they just
aren't anywhere near the same amount of fun.

To quote a sign I post on the dash of my car at some cruises and shows:

"An Old Muscle Car is Way Better Than a New Toyota!"

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:23:11 -0300
Subject: Latest 403 run... 

Well after rebuilding my 403 this summer along with infinite tranny problems
from the 200-4R,  Yesterday I ran a 13.915s @ 96.103mph through a full 3"
torque tech exhaust with street tires (brand new BFG Radial TA's - very
hard!!!).  Hopefully I can squeeze a 13.8s at Englishtown during the Ralyee
350 show this upcoming Sunday...

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show 
86 442 -> Summer Driver 
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:23:08 -0300
Subject: Rallye 350 show... 

I was wondering if anybody planned on attending the Olds Rallye 350 show this
Sunday at Englishtown NJ.  I been there for the past 3 years with my 79
Cutlass and really enjoyed myself.  They also have 2 race classes, small
block Olds and big block Olds.  By the way, Englishtown is a pretty quick
track due to it being closer to sea level.. I have run my best times there.
 Hopefully I will do the same this year.

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show 
86 442 -> Summer Driver 
79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 20:50:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Article

On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, SG Hartfelder wrote:

> Hey Greg Beaulieu, while at the all Olds show in
> Olds, Alberta (July), I noticed an article in a 
> magazine sitting on the seat on one of the cars 
> that I thought had your name as the author.  The 
> magazine was your standard 8.5 x 11" size and the 
> pages were glossy and I believe the articles 
> subject was on the internet.
> 
> Was that you?
> What was the magazine/issue?

Stan, yeah, that was me. The magazine was Journey With Olds, July '96 
issue. The article was a follow-up about this mail list and Bryceman's 
web page. Nice of them to print it, I thought. Came out good too. Thanks 
for asking...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 20:41:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Rallye 350 show...

Where is englishtown Raceway located?

Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Rallye 350 show...
> Date: Monday, October 07, 1996 6:23 PM
> 
> I was wondering if anybody planned on attending the Olds Rallye 350 show
this
> Sunday at Englishtown NJ.  I been there for the past 3 years with my 79
> Cutlass and really enjoyed myself.  They also have 2 race classes, small
> block Olds and big block Olds.  By the way, Englishtown is a pretty quick
> track due to it being closer to sea level.. I have run my best times
there.
>  Hopefully I will do the same this year.
> 
> Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
> 79 Cutlass -> Street/Strip/Show 
> 86 442 -> Summer Driver 
> 79 Cutlass -> Winter Bomb
> 

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:33:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds hp ratings

Darren,
When I bought my '70 442, it had a '70 W30 MT ( same 328 deg) cam in it, 
which I ran for 2 or 3 years.  The cam is strong but very peaky.   It really 
wouldn't pull (with 3.23 gears in my car) much below 3400 rpm, and then it 
would come on like gangbusters to 5500 RPM and break the tires loose.  Also, 
the cam would not generate enough vacuum to consistently keep the vacuum 
advance on the distributor actuated, so it would surge at idle.  Annoying in 
what was then my daily driver!!  The Mondello JM 20-22 cam now in my car is 
much smoother idle, and a broad, fat torque curve.  Car pulls from 1800 to 
5500 RPM.  I wish I had bought the JM 22-25.  Anybody out there running this 
one?  Also, is there a new address for the page, since several of my 
submissions have not appeared?  I remember reading last week that the server 
was changing.  What is the new address?
Scott Mullen
'70 442
 ----------
From: Darren Shroeger
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Re: Olds hp ratings
Date: Monday, October 07, 1996 1:14PM


>
> I noticed that in '68-'69, the 442 engine is "rated" for
> 350hp, unless you had an auto then it was 325hp.  Does anyone
> know if this 25hp difference is real or was it just specmanship.
> In '70, it looked like they didn't differentitate between
> auto and manuals. Maybe a new group of people wrote the specs.

Don,

MT cars *were* in fact cammed hotter. Hottest of the hot would be the
'68 W30 MT with 328 degrees duration or something crazy like that. Whew!

Who'd want to drive that around town? But great on the dragstrip, I suspect.
Then again, the G400's weren't the revvers that the earlier E400 was...

Anyone got experience dragging with a 68 W30 MT?

 -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: ImaLsrBaby@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:20:44 -0300
Subject: Nitrous Oxide (a technical question for the engineers) 

Hello everyone,

     I'm thinking of running Nitrous Oxide on my 1970 cs 355cid. The motor
has been ballanced and I've installed a 472/496 lift cam. TRW, 10.25:1 forged
aluminum pistons are installed. I'm running a non emmision 600cfm Carter afb
(dyno matched to the valve diameter and cam specifications on my software
dyno program) I have an outside air induction (OAI) hood on the car and it is
funtional.                                                                 
      Calculating the % of natural air to % of nitrous found in the inducted
charge requires knowing the pounds of oxygen inducted per minute (found by
multiplying Cu ft inducted per minute times weight of air at sea level), and
knowing the pounds of nitrous inducted per minute (a constant -effected by
the volume injected). 
     This is important because Nitrous has the dubious effect of lowering the
% of nitrogen (a detonation dampening agent) found in the inducted air
charge, while raising the % of oxygen (a detonation multiplyer) found in the
charge. To safegaurd or offset the detonation effects of increased oxygen is
to increase % of total fuel (gasoline) octane inducted.
     My question is; If I want to keep the OAI hood operational, will this
effect the % of the above two varaibles, and will it be a negative or
positive effect on increasing the possibility of detonation? 
     My immediate thoughts are that since the total volumetric efficiency of
the engine will be unchanged (that is- maximum cu ft consumption does not
increase), when the OAI hood opens it should change the % of natural air to
nitrous found in the total charge for the greater. This would have the effect
of increasing nitrogen and decreasing oxygen percentages thereby reducing the
possibilty of detonation. 
     Am I correct in this assumption? Help!  If there are any fluid dynamics
or fuel system engineers out there I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Jim

1970 cs conv. 355cid /340hp
" Beware of salesmen wearing expensive shoes."

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:39:00 -0300
Subject: test///   throw away



------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:48:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Nitrous Oxide (a technical question for the engineers) 

Hey Jim!
      I'm not one of those poly-syllable names that you mentioned but I have
been running nitrous for about 10 years on my 65. In my humble opinion, I
would say that it depends upon what system you are using . A lean burn is the
ultimate no-no  so if you have a system similar to the NOS Cheater , use the
smallest nitrous pill  coupled with a larger gas pill. A slightly rich
condition  may be annoying to the guy behind you at the stop light, but well
worth it when WOT is selected! 
      I run the 926 CFM Brad Urban Holly on mine and tune it so that the
plugs read a very dark brown rather than the chocolate.


I hope the EPA police aren't reading this!
                                                                      Ron 4C
    AKA R4C442

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 22:03:05 -0300
Subject: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question 

There are two cars around here that might be of particular interest to
~someone~ on the list.  There is a '66 Toro at a local salvage lot here.  No
engine or hood, and I think the seats are missing, too.  Don't know what
they want for it yet.  Some body damage, not *too* bad.  
     Another lot up here has a '52 Olds Ninety Eight sitting out front.  As
far as I can tell, it is fairly complete, but needs complete restoration,
and has been nearly completely disassembled.  Has the V8 in there, not sure
what size, tho.  No tri-power, but it would fit nice in there***  The guy
wants $900 for it, and it would have to be trailerred, I'm sure.  
     If anyone is interested in either of these, let me know, I can find out
more.  

     By the way, this '52 has something on the dash that I'm unfamiliar
with.  To the left of the steering wheel *(which looks like it has an
illuminated horn button??) and on top of the dash (next to the left
A-pillar) is something sticking up and aimed foreward with a lens on it.  I
don't know if this is some sort of spotlight, or a really archaic
auto-headlight dimmer thingy, or what.  It caught my attention anyway.
Anyone know what it is?
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:18:44 -0300
Subject: Re: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question

buehner wrote:
> 
> 
> is something sticking up and aimed foreward with a lens on it.  I
> don't know if this is some sort of spotlight, or a really archaic
> auto-headlight dimmer thingy, or what.  

Could it be one of those little prism thingies they used to use so you 
could see the overhead traffic lights on a car with the windshield visor?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 23:39:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Nitrous Oxide (a technical question for the engineers) 

At 08:20 PM 10/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>     I'm thinking of running Nitrous Oxide on my 1970 cs 355cid. The motor
>has been ballanced and I've installed a 472/496 lift cam. TRW, 10.25:1 forged
[snip]                                                                
>      Calculating the % of natural air to % of nitrous found in the inducted
>charge requires knowing the pounds of oxygen inducted per minute (found by

You're concerned about the air/fuel (A/F) ratio; not to worry. The nitrous
system has its very own fuel source, independent of the fuel supplied to
combust with the naturally-inducted air. Your carb should supply the proper
amount of fuel for your natural induction, and the nitrous' fuel system
provides the fuel to mix with the oxygen released from the N2O. The
nitrous/Fuel ratio may differ from the 14:1 A/F ratio for atmosphere and
gasoline, I don't know. The nitrous companies have pretty much figured this
out by now, so they'd be the ones to go to for the authoritative answers.

[snip]
>     My question is; If I want to keep the OAI hood operational, will this
>effect the % of the above two varaibles, and will it be a negative or
>positive effect on increasing the possibility of detonation? 

Makes no difference, as long as your carb is supplying enough fuel for that
air. Again, the nitrous system has its own fuel supply. Theoretically, you
could seal off the intake, cut off the fuel to the carb, and run the engine
on the nitrous system alone (in fact, there was a dragster back in the
late-50's that did this, but used a *huge* tank of compressed O2 fed through
a closed FI system; uh, wouldn't want to crash in _that_!). Your carb could
never be expected to supply enough gas for the nitrous system, even a mild
one. The FI units are different, since they can use the stock injectors to
supplement for the nitrous (though I know some use a supplementary injector).

>     My immediate thoughts are that since the total volumetric efficiency of
>the engine will be unchanged (that is- maximum cu ft consumption does not

Well, since oxygen is a gas, and gasses are compressible, the "max cu ft
consumption" is not necessarily directly related to the quantity of oxygen
you can use for combustion with additional fuel. Thus, a nitrous motor, just
like a turbo- or supercharged motor, has a volumetric efficiency (VE) of
greater than 100% (so do tunnel-rammed motors, and Nascar motors, at certain
rpms, but that's another story...). That's one reason that nitrous is called
"chemical supercharging." In addition, that's why it was a good idea for you
to go with forged pistons, since the cylinder pressure of a nitrous motor is
higher than a naturally-aspirated one.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:02:12 -0300
Subject: Re: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question 

At 01:18 AM 10/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>buehner wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> is something sticking up and aimed foreward with a lens on it.  I
>> don't know if this is some sort of spotlight, or a really archaic
>> auto-headlight dimmer thingy, or what.  
>
>Could it be one of those little prism thingies they used to use so you 
>could see the overhead traffic lights on a car with the windshield visor?
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick

As the owner of L A R G E Oldsmobiles, Mike, you have to realize, this is a
periscope.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:04:22 -0300
Subject: Re: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question 

it could be the automatic dimmer called the autronic eye

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:06:57 -0300
Subject: Re: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question 

I would like to be removed from this mailing list can someone tell me
HOW??????

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 23:23:00 -0300
Subject: RE: November Car craft

Tom Lenz wrote:
>I wish the car magazines would wake up and stop
>Chevy-Camaro-Mustanging us to death.

Good soap box speech, Tom.
I, and I'm sure many of us here couldn't agree with you more!

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 23:25:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling 

I'll run up & grab a Hemmings - the thing has gotten pretty big (compared to
when I used to read it in '77!!) and I think I can re-find the area I
searched through before.  Also saw some people advertising in Muscle Car
Review - will pull that info out too.

There's gotta be something reasonable out there - 
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:28:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Anyone in my Area? 

In a message dated 96-10-05 13:05:10 EDT, you write:

<< Just curious to see if there is anyone on the list that is in the St.
Louis 
 area?  So far, the closest I have seen is our IL neighbors from the Windy 
 City.  I do have an Uncle who lives in Bartlett (on the outskirts of 
 Chicago) and I do get up to see him usually once a year.  Next time I do, 
 probably not anytime this year, I will have to meet up with you Chicagoians.

  >>

I'd say I'm about as close as they are.  I live in Rockton, Il. (about 80
miles west of Chicago) but it may be easier to get to Chicago on I-states,
than to come up here.  Still a good distance either way.

Chris.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:28:34 -0300
Subject: Introduction..... (New guy...) 

Well, I've been hanging around here just reading mail and am finally getting
the time to go and give a little intro on myself, so here goes.

My name is Chris Ruper, I'm 26 yrs. old, and live in Rockton, Il., U.S.A.
(about 80 miles west of Chicago).  I am married, and have two kids (1 girl, 1
boy).  I work as an applications engineer at a cutting tool manufacturer in
Rockford, Il. (about 15 miles south of where I live), which means I work on
cutting tool packages to go on our very large milling machines we also make.

I have a few vehicles around here to keep me busy.  They are 1) 1988 Chevy (I
can hear the groans coming already) Cavalier, 2) 1974 BMW 2002 (auto) (major
project car...), 3) 1985 Kawasaki GPz750 motorcycle (my favorite vehicle when
weather is right, sorry guys, the kicks of a car are no comparison to the
bike)  and last, but not least, I have a 1981 Olds Cutlass Supreme.

The olds lists as follows:
2 Door, hardtop, blue exterior/interior (lots of miles.... 100k at least)
original motor - smog control covered 260 cu. in. (disgusting!, way too
small)
P/S, 2 - 60 air (none in other words),no power anything (and with that motor,
I'm suprised it even went!)

I've been doing some work on it, and have found that someone decided the
original trans wasn't working/wasn't enough, so there's a GM350 in it (out of
a Buick, I believe).  I've decided that a 350 would work much better in his
vehicle, and so... the swap is on....

I'm currently building a "dummy" motor to last me till next spring, and it
consists of a 1977 350 motor (webbed mains), stock bore/pistonswith all stock
manifold, exhaust, etc. (big difference just going to that as it is).

This dummy motor is being done because the "real" motor (parts listed below)
has had some hitches in it's assembly.  Such as after the bore job was
performed on it, it seems that when I torque down the main caps to even 20
lbs. (which is, of course, nothing compared to specs), I can't turn the crank
even with two hands (I'm a pretty big boy at 270 lbs., and somewhat strong,
so this can give you an idea of what this thing is like to turn).  This is of
course without pistons, etc. in, just the crank.  After doing some plastigage
work, all bearing check within spec. (some look like they may be somewhat
tight), and I checked the run-out on my crank at .0005 in. at most (indicator
for measurement).  The same crank/bearing combo works ok in the other block I
have, so it must be the block.

Since some friends and I (from work, who work with cranks/auto mfg's.) figure
that it couldn't have shipped new like this (starter wouldn't turn it over
with all items attached on top of this problem), and the motor hasn't had any
catastophic, or severe damage, that it must be the bore job that was done.
 The best we can figure,things either weren't tightened down right, or there
was some other problem from when they bored it.  But now the project is
waiting for some money to be put into it, and it looks like the engine
project will expand some.

"Real engine parts"
1974 350 NON-WEBBED MAINS (another reason we didn't feel it was the block)

1981 260 crank (the '74 wa in rough shape, and actually, the 260 crank was
stronger looking than the '77 350's was (can elaborate if asked)

1977 350 connecting rods
cast pistons, .060 in. oversize (with whatever stock compression is)
1974 heads (in need of valve job, etc.)
undecided on cam yet
Edelbrock Performer intake
headers eventually, unsure on mfg. yet
will most likely stay with the Rochester carb

The engine was nothing special (the 1974), came out of a station wagon, solid
block though due to the mains being solid.

That's just a little bit about me, if anybody is interested, I do have my own
web page (about my bike, and eventually some car pics. also), it's at:

http://members.aol.com/CRuper1/index.htm

Later all, Chris.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:07:50 -0300
Subject: reply:  unsubscribe question 

>I would like to be removed from this mailing list can someone tell me
>HOW??????

     You'd need to type "install cloak" which is also how you get that thing
on the 72 Cutless 442!!!

     (I'm joking, don't type that!)

     I think it's just "unsubscribe oldsmobile" but the rest of the members
would correct me if I'm wrong.  I'd never have a desire to type such foul
language intentionally, so I could have it wrong!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:07:48 -0300
Subject: Re: F/S in central Montana, & 52-98 Question 

>buehner wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> is something sticking up and aimed foreward with a lens on it.  I
>> don't know if this is some sort of spotlight, or a really archaic
>> auto-headlight dimmer thingy, or what.  
>
>Could it be one of those little prism thingies they used to use so you 
>could see the overhead traffic lights on a car with the windshield visor?

     No, it was solid black plastic on the back.  Looked very much like a
factory deal, too.  
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:01:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme 

At 09:08 PM 10/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I own a 1970 cutlass supreme and am looking to get the following parts
>
>Left and Right Front Fenders
>Rear Wheel Clips ( another name can't recall)
>Passenger Side door
>Bucket Seat Covers
>
>  I am restoring my 1970 cutlass supreme.  I am the original owner and
>want to make the car as close to new as possible.  Thank you for your
>time.

Henry,

Great car to have owned since new! (I'm second owner of a '70 CS SX). All
those sheetmetal parts are available from either Hall's in Kansas or Auto
Body Specialties in Middlefield, CT (see the Olds web page for details). The
seat covers can be had through Year One, Fusick's or Paddock's (again, see
web page for addresses).  If the rear-wheel "clips" are the quarter-panels,
then you have some big job ahead of you; perhaps you can get away with just
patch panels (same on the fenders; price difference of $40 compared to $295!).

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 03:09:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Nitrous Oxide (a technical question for the engineers)

Not to mention considering the effects of the added heat incurred by 
burning the nitrous and fuel...which can in some cases butt your rings 
and destroy your pistons.  An interesting side note...some bigtime 
professional drag racers whose names have slipped my mind right now used 
to run an extremely well concealed nitrous oxide system that stored 
nitrous inside the roll cage, ran it through the motor plate, and through 
some other trickery got the nitrous up to the hood scoop mount where it 
misted into the carburetors.  The amount was so small that there was no 
fuel enrichment but it was enough to put the teams using such systems 
decisively ahead of otehrs.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:04:04 -0300
Subject: 80's G/A Body door Question 

I've had problems with my doors that I know almost every A/G body of this
era has experienced.  These being the cracking doorskins in front of the
mirrors, the squeaking windows against the weatherstripping, and the
tendancy for the windows to "blow out" on the highway.  While I'm reasonably
certain the cracks cause most of the other complaints, I'm still seeking
further knowledge.  Has anyone found any ~really good~ methods for treating
the weatherstripping?  I usually coat them with some form of oil (whatever's
handy) before I take a trip anywhere, and it seems to quiet them down for
the trip.  It also attracts dirt, etc.  Are there better methods?  (besides
replacements...)  Once they are replaced, what is a good substance to use to
keep them clean and protected?  Armor All, beer, nothing...?
     Also, has anyone ~successfully~ conquerred the "cracking door
syndrome"?  I've heard that welding them up is only a bandaid, and that they
crack out again.  None of the bodymen around here really seem to be able to
give much of a straight answer about whether it can even be fixed, so I'm
asking experts.  Incedentally, I have, to date, seen three Cutlasses without
cracked doors.  Two were 87's, and one had just been repainted, with heavy
ridges around the cracks.
     I'm not likely to get my car painted anytime soon (ie, this century!)
but these problems have been plagueing my mind for a while, and I'm curious....
     Thanks in advance...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:08:28 -0300
Subject: RE:NEED PART HELP

Goodday:

Chuck, Thanks for the offer,But I,m not sure if the Toro
Markers are the same? So Lets do This..

Does Anyone From The VAST Knowledge Of VAST Information
On This List(The Most Knoweldgeable Oldsmobile People)
Know If TORO FRONT MARKER LIGHTS ARE THE SAME AS 1969
CUTLASS S FRONT MARKER LIGHTS....

There Chuck Now We Just Wait.....

Thanks..

Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Ohiooooooooo

1982 Cutlass Supreme (455)
1969 Cutlass S (Still Wounded) :(

PS: No BUTT Warming Took Place .. KIDS WILL BE KIDS ....

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:20:06 -0300
Subject: Re: reply:  unsubscribe question

buehner wrote:
> 
> >I would like to be removed from this mailing list can someone tell me
> >HOW??????
> 
> I think it's just "unsubscribe oldsmobile" but the rest of the members
> would correct me if I'm wrong.  

You be right, Web Dude.  Just sent the request to the list server 
majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca (and NOT oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca).

OR... cut the phone line.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:34:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling 

I have some friends that had a car hauled from Ca. to Va. beach, Va. They
paid $900.00 to have this done. You could contact them @  757-548-8900. They
may still know what carrier did this for them and/ or have a contact # for
you. Their name is Sandy and Kenny Carr. Kenny is the proud owner of a 70
Cutlass Supreme convertible.


Katana72          It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!         Hastings, MN

Rob Turner

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:07:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling 

At 04:47 AM 10/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Well first I want to thank everybody for all info for hauling a car.
>Lisa, I can't seem to find anybody in Hemmings.


There are several ads in Hemmings for haulers, if I remember correctly they
are near the front. 
You have to be careful though, *some* of these companies have various drop
off points around the country so your car is loaded and unloaded several
times and may sit outside in a lot unprotected for days at a time. On the
other hand some of them are very good. The best advice I can give you is to
ask a lot of questions and get a feel for who you are dealing with and
DEFINITELY check references. 
I would also think that if you waited until they were making a trip in the
general direction you are transporting the car they might give you a break
on the price. Worth asking anyway if you can afford to wait.

Good Luck!

J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        


                                    

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:20:22 -0300
Subject: RE: Tires & Gears 

>Any thoughts? Anyone else running 3.23 on their big olds? What's the story?
>thanks
>cf

Didn't the early Torodados run a 3.2--something final drive ratio?  What are
they like?

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:15:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Hauling, some transporters Thanks Todd and Dave

Todd Morris wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of transporters--I got my 442 hauled up to Maryland from Georgia, 
cost $650 by
> Passport Transport.  I think they did a fine job, on time delivery, treated 
the car
> very carefully, and they took a credit card, which most of the companies I 
called did not.
> You can find their number in Hemmings or probably on the page Dave refers to 
here....
> 
> 
> >http://www.car-nection.com/cgi-win/dspdlr.exe?transportation It has 12 links
> >to  auto transporter info pages.
> 
> > >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
>      >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
> 
> 
>  Todd Morris
> 71 442
> 		Thanks Todd Morris and Dave Isho for the info
		The one you suggested Todd so far has been the
		nicest, even if they are $60 more I think I'll 
		use them
					Chris Blumenstein

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:30:00 -0300
Subject: Excuse me(was RE Tires_Gears) 

              My apologies for typing Torodado instead of Toronado in my
previous post.(The irony here is that I have a awful cold today.)  

Greg Pruett
`72 Visda Cruider

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:39:54 -0300 
Subject: Re: Chicago Olds Area meet

From: David1756@aol.com

>Sorry I missed the meeting after all that talk and planning.  One of my kids
>was sick and I was on duty.  So I hope you all had a great time and will
>someone be reporting the results?

I dropped the wife off at the mall with a promise to be back in an hour
to get her and motored on over to the Fuddruckers, arriving at 3:00pm.
My friend Don was already there with his red '70 Cutlass SX.
A few minutes later Andy pulled in and wisely chose to park his
Pontiac at the far end of the lot :-).  Brett also pulled in about that
time in his Green '72 Cutlass.  While making introductions, Rick
drove in with his '72 Cutlass, and a little later Ed pulled in with his
white '72 Cutlass.  I'm starting to see a trend here...  David was the
last to make it, in his late 80's Cutlass.

Andy took quite a few pictures, I took a few, and Ed's wife was
shooting video.  After a few minutes we had the hoods up and were
making the rounds of all the cars, comparing notes.
We had a mini car show going, and a few people wandered in
off the street to look them over as well.  One guy drove in with
an '86 442.  It looked pretty sharp, and if I understood the
conversation he was having with David, he had a 403 in it.

Time went by too quickly and an hour and a half later, I
suddenly remembered I'd left my wife at the mall.  I
had to make a hasty exit and unfortunatly didnt get to stay
any longer.  Hopefully the rest of the guys had a great
time as well.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:43:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Excuse me(was RE Tires_Gears)

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> My apologies for typing Torodado instead of Toronado ...

No pwoblem, Gweg.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Schleier, Tom (AZ76)" <TSchleie@space.honeywell.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:48:00 -0300
Subject: Introduction

Hi there,

I am new to the group.  I found you people through
Bryceman's web page.

I used to be the proud owner of a black '63 Cutlass coupe
with the 215 with Hurst 4-speed, but it needed more work
than I could afford to do.

Now I have a black '90 Quad 442 with a 5-speed.  I looked
under the hood, but can't identify any of the components.
Does the injected 2.3 have spark plugs??  I couldn't find
them!!

Looking for quad 4 owners to swap stories.

Tom Schleier
tschleie@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:58:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Tires & Gears

Greg Pruett wrote:

> Didn't the early Torodados run a 3.2--something final drive ratio?  What are
> they like?

Greg,

That would be a 3.21 final ratio.

Sorry to hear about your cold......look out, it may be the onset of the Toro 
Virus!!!!

Sparky (wearing a face mask to prevent re-infection)

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: "RYAN KURYLO" <RSK0790@anubis.westmoreland.cc.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:01:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hi my name is Ryan I am new to the group I drive a 90 black Quad 442 
5-speed is there anybodu else who runs them.  I live in PA. and 
around here guys think that 5.0's are everything I just love blowing 
them away.  I have a flowmaster muffler with a k&n filter.  I am 
running 15.2's in the quarter.  I read a message that Tom needs to 
know where the spark plugs are well they are under the cover where 
you read 16 valve quad 4 h.o. 

Ryan "The four horsemen club"

------------------------------

From: "RYAN KURYLO" <RSK0790@anubis.westmoreland.cc.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:05:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Tires & Gears

Hi everyone I would like to know if there is any companies that are 
speacilized in quad 4 parts.  Like any performance parts.  I would 
appreciate any help that I can get.

Ryan "The four horsemen"
90 442

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:04:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

On  8 Oct 96 at 8:48, Schleier, Tom (AZ76) wrote:
 
> Now I have a black '90 Quad 442 with a 5-speed.  

Look Toroheads - another Quad owner!  Its the beginning stage of a 
virus I tell you!

> I looked under the hood, but can't identify any of the components.
> Does the injected 2.3 have spark plugs??  

Yes.

> I couldn't find them!!

Did you look under the big plate that says HIGH OUTPUT DOHC?

Since Olds decided you have no need for distributors or those damn 
spark plug wires, they combined them into that plate.  There will be 
four spark plugs recessed into the head with specific torque specs 
for the beast.  

> Looking for quad 4 owners to swap stories.

Tell us more!  Mileage? Did you get the spoiler delete option (granny 
sleeper) <g>? Condition?

If you need specific help on a problem, let me know.  I have the big 
Olds Bible on Calais...

There are at least 3 others with Quads here (and some Achieva SCXs), 
but being a minority, we're sorta quiet...

later- 

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:15:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Tires & Gears

On  8 Oct 96 at 13:05, RYAN KURYLO wrote:

> Hi everyone I would like to know if there is any companies that are
> speacilized in quad 4 parts.  Like any performance parts.  I would
> appreciate any help that I can get.

Ryan,

I looked in my old messages and found some info for you on this.  I 
believe i have the name of another place at home.  I'll try and bring 
it in, but if I don't send it to you by the end of the week, please 
send me a reminder to my address - mikec@oz.kis.net.  This is from 
another Quad guy, I haven't called them, I did not do any spell 
checking on the following, etc....

I also found some Rocketparts stuff in the GM Performance Parts 
catalog, and some replacement electronics in a European Car 
Restoration mag. (?)

>> hey quad 4's out there i talked to Mantapart Performance prod today
>> finally and they gaurentee me high 13's to low 14's for $800--this
>> will include two radical camshafts slightly bigger than the W41
>> option cams with Heavy duty valve springs, a modified exhaust
>> manifold, bigger throttle body, revamped computer chip-specially
>> programmmed for all the parts...so look out e -mail me if your
>> interested!
>> 
>> Jeff
>

> the best thing i could tell you is contact them at
> 330-549-3188 and leave a message on there answering machince--leave
> your name and address and they will send you the info fast...they are
> very hard to get a hold of...but i can tell you the cams and springs
> are about $550 the throttle bodie is $200 and a custom chip is $150
> they have anything and everything for quad 4's though

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:23:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

On  8 Oct 96 at 13:01, RYAN KURYLO wrote:

> Hi my name is Ryan I am new to the group I drive a 90 black Quad 442
> 5-speed is there anybodu else who runs them.

O.K. Toroheads, who's playing around?  Two Quad442s in 1 day?  It has 
to be that funny 66 Toro messing around with Mike's computer again!

> I have a flowmaster muffler with a k&n filter.  

The muffler is a generic, right?  When I called them a few months 
ago, they babbled about the H.O. Quad single muffler exhaust was 
patented by GM and couldn't be found in the aftermarket.  Or did a 
perts guy sell you what he thought would work?  In every book I 
looked at (Walker, Flowmaster, Borla, etc.) they all had the "*Except 
H.O".  Let me know details - for the next time I need a muffler....

Coming soon - the mini-Quad4 list! <g>

Later- 

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Robert Myers <habs33@jtasd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:42:33 -0300
Subject: ? on a hood

I have a 70' Cutlass Supreme. I would like to put a cowl induction 
hood on it. Possibly from a hurst/olds or a 442. My car is all factroy 
original with a 350 under the hood. If the conversion is possible can 
you please tell me what changes are needed to make this work.

Rob Myers

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:50:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> O.K. Toroheads, who's playing around?  Two Quad442s in 1 day?  It has
> to be that funny 66 Toro messing around with Mike's computer again!

Hey, it wasn't us.  Honest!

Here a Quad, there a Quad, everywhere a Quad, Quad...

> Coming soon - the mini-Quad4 list! <g>

:o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:50:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 80's G/A Body door Question 

     I'm not sure what you're referring to about the cracking doorskins.  
     Both my '84 and my '79 are/were just fine in front of the mirrors.  
     Maybe I just haven't looked close enough.
     
     Both cars of mine have had the windows popping out on the highway 
     problem.  Actually they never pop out on their own, but once you roll 
     the window down sometimes you can't roll them up until you slow down 
     because they fall outside of the plastic retainer on the upper front 
     corner.  I've found, at least on my '84, that if I crack the passenger 
     window open a bit then I can get the driver's side up, and then the 
     passenger side will go up.  Easy for me, but not if you don't have 
     power windows.  Somebody told me that you can adjust the angle of the 
     glass inside the door to fix this.
     
     My '79 didn't have the squeaking problem, but my '84 did.  Both cars 
     had tinted windows (brother used to do it for a living, so I get it 
     for free :-) ), and I assumed it was the plastic tint against the 
     weatherstripping causing the squeaking.  After a long road trip of 
     just about being driven insane (this squeak is right *in* your left 
     ear as I'm sure you're well aware), I pulled into a rest stop 
     determined to fix the problem.  I wiped some motor oil (Mobil-1 
     10w30), the only lube I had handy, on the weatherstripping, figuring 
     that I would clean it off and fix it proper when I got home.  The 
     weatherstripping sucked the oil right up and after 5 minutes was *not* 
     greasy to the touch and has not attracted dirt.  The problem was 
     instantly fixed and remains fixed 6 months later.  I've never needed 
     to reapply the oil even though I've washed the weatherstripping off 
     several times.  I'm not sure why this worked, perhaps it's something 
     to do with the fact that it's synthetic oil and the foam rubber 
     weatherstripping is synthetic too.
     
     I have seen a lot of Cutlass's with the sagging-door syndrome too, my 
     '79 was pretty bad.  New hinge pins probably would have fixed it right 
     up.
     
     Here's another anti-squeak tip (this one I learned from some Buick 
     Regal guys).  If you're getting a rattling or thunking from the front 
     of the car, especially the base of the window, it's probably your hood 
     rests.  As a quick fix, spread a thin layer of lithium grease on the 
     front hood supports, the side supports, and *especially* the back 
     center support which is usually the cause of the problem.  If the 
     grease fixes it, you can either leave it and reapply the grease 
     anually, or adjust the hood supports up or down a quarter turn, or 
     just buy new hood supports (they're cheap from GM).  This fixed a 
     squeak for me that I barely realized was there.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 80's G/A Body door Question
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/8/96 1:19 AM

     I've had problems with my doors that I know almost every A/G body of 
     this era has experienced.  These being the cracking doorskins in front 
     of the mirrors, the squeaking windows against the weatherstripping, 
     and the tendancy for the windows to "blow out" on the highway.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 23:31:57 -0300
Subject: Re:  A Lovely Day... (non-tech) 

Except now I'm jealous - we were working on the '66 Ch*vy to get it back up
& running properly in its high perf condition (OK so I'm under the spell of
a possible 375 HP small block at the moment) - to the tune of $400 dropped
in small time parts (the other halfs money though!!!).   I didnt get to even
start my Delta - sniff sniff - and the Chevy bit me to boot (wrench slipped
& I caught the trans cooler line clamp across my wrist big time - looks like
a bad suicide attempt).

Sigh - some of us are still slaving away to get to the Sunday drive point......

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:57:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 80's G/A Body door Question 

>     I'm not sure what you're referring to about the cracking doorskins.

I do. My '82 had a small trace of a crack just starting under the edge
of the upper molding, forward of the mirror. I always thought it was a
minor stamping flaw or something like that, not a design defect. Didn't
seem to get perceptibly worse over the years, anyway. Maybe the initial
crack was all it needed to relieve metal stress in that corner.
  
>     I've found, at least on my '84, that if I crack the passenger 
>     window open a bit then I can get the driver's side up, and then the 
>     passenger side will go up.  Easy for me, but not if you don't have 
>     power windows.

My wife's old Grand Prix did this. I could get the windows closed one of
two ways: (1) Open the other side (via power window switch), then run them
both up at once, or (2) wait until I was next to a truck on my left side
(at highway speed), where the air pressure would push the glass back into 
the frame as I raised it.

>  Somebody told me that you can adjust the angle of the 
>     glass inside the door to fix this.

Well, the angle of the tracks, yes. You have to detach the lower mounts
and kind of jiggle the tracks around a bit so they're a little further
out at the bottom. It's a pain. I think new track liners might be better
at preventing the glass from flopping in or out but I haven't tried it.

>     Here's another anti-squeak tip (this one I learned from some Buick 
>     Regal guys).  If you're getting a rattling or thunking from the front 
>     of the car, especially the base of the window, it's probably your hood 
>     rests.  As a quick fix, spread a thin layer of lithium grease on the 
>     front hood supports, the side supports, and *especially* the back 
>     center support which is usually the cause of the problem.

Hear, hear.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Schleier, Tom (AZ76)" <TSchleie@space.honeywell.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:28:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

OK, here's more about my Quad 442.

This black beauty is in near showroom condition.  The previous owner
must have crunched the left front, because the left front fender is non-
metallic black, while the rest is deep gold metallic black.  The Quad
442
and Oldsmobile lettering is all in gold, and the mags have gold edges.
I put gold tire caps on to complete the trim.  It has medium blue cloth
interior with a leather covered 5-speed shifter.

I can't get over the finish.  You can hold your watch about a foot away,
and read the time in the reflection.  Living in Phoenix, I am grateful
for that dyno-mite GM Air Conditioner.  Black isn't the right color for
the 
area, but I love that color.

It has 97k miles on it.  It seems to not have much low-end torque,
but at about 3500 to 4k RPM it really comes on.

I just bought the car in June, so I haven't monkeyed around with it yet.
Like I said, I am used to cars with minimal to no electronics, so this
is a real change for me.

I had it a month, when it started to lose power, then stopped
altogether.
My mechanic said a clogged catalytic converter damaged an injector and
the oxygen sensor.

I hope that it will run for a while.  Any tips on gas?  Should I use
super whoopie stuff, medium grade, or 87 octane?

Seeya,

Tom Schleier
tschleie@space.honeywell.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----

On  8 Oct 96 at 8:48, Schleier, Tom (AZ76) wrote:

> Now I have a black '90 Quad 442 with a 5-speed.

Look Toroheads - another Quad owner!  Its the beginning stage of a
virus I tell you!

> I looked under the hood, but can't identify any of the components.
> Does the injected 2.3 have spark plugs??

Yes.

> I couldn't find them!!

Did you look under the big plate that says HIGH OUTPUT DOHC?

Since Olds decided you have no need for distributors or those damn
spark plug wires, they combined them into that plate.  There will be
four spark plugs recessed into the head with specific torque specs
for the beast.

> Looking for quad 4 owners to swap stories.

Tell us more!  Mileage? Did you get the spoiler delete option (granny
sleeper) <g>? Condition?

If you need specific help on a problem, let me know.  I have the big
Olds Bible on Calais...

There are at least 3 others with Quads here (and some Achieva SCXs),
but being a minority, we're sorta quiet...

later-

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:59:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction..... (New guy...) 

Chris,
Welcome to the list.  I will put you on the Chicago area list.  Be great if 
you could join us some time.  We will have to cruise out way out west 
sometime.

About the crank binding, maybe the main bearing caps have been mixed or 
possibly turned 180 degrees, maybe the crank is warped, maybe the bearings 
are oversize.  Someone had their motor sabotaged (bearings [guess it was 
ground differently at each main], caps mixed) in an engine class and this 
was the same result.  Took time to figure out.  You might want to have it 
align bore checked or bored.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------

Well, I've been hanging around here just reading mail and am finally getting
the time to go and give a little intro on myself, so here goes.

My name is Chris Ruper, I'm 26 yrs. old, and live in Rockton, Il., U.S.A.
(about 80 miles west of Chicago).  <snip>

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:14:22 -0300
Subject: Chicago Olds Area Meet 

Sunday was a great day to bring out the Olds' and talk.  It was great to see 
the
4 Cutlass front ends staring at me when I turned the corner at Fuddrucker's!  
Much gabbing, pictures, drooling!  Andy took a ton of pictures.  Jeff, nice 
recap!

The '86 442 was pretty sharp.  Webbed 403 (from '79 TA) though (4B and confirm 
from owner), correct 4A heads, black to disguise as a 307.  The owner Paul is 
thinking of selling it.  I have his phone if anyone is interested.  He is 
using 
the 307 intake and computer & smog controls.  Says the top end is a little 
short.  He has a honeycomb cat, but stock muffler.  Probably needs to rejet 
the 
carb(?), new prom(?), remove EGR bump(?), aftermarket intake(?), Flowmaster 3 
chamber(?).  Paul offered to locate/sell GM stocked parts.

So, did we beat the PA group?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:59:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Introduction

On  8 Oct 96 at 11:28, Schleier, Tom (AZ76) wrote:

> OK, here's more about my Quad 442.
...
> It has 97k miles on it.  It seems to not have much low-end torque,
> but at about 3500 to 4k RPM it really comes on.

I've got about 105k on mine, only time opened up was for the Head 
Gasket.  Power is real decent up to the rev-limiter...

> I had it a month, when it started to lose power, then stopped
> altogether.
> My mechanic said a clogged catalytic converter damaged an injector
> and the oxygen sensor.

The catalytic converter seems to be a common part of failure.  My 2nd 
self destructed about 98K and decided to make the ol' bolt rattling 
around noise...

> I hope that it will run for a while.  Any tips on gas?  

Well Tom, your car has an electronic sensor for octane level, and it 
changes the timing/retards spark when it does not receive the octane 
its expecting.  The manuals suggest premium fuel, there was a sticker 
in your car when it was new suggesting premium fuel, etc.

I've been geting 33 to 38 MPG on mine with mixed driving (a lot less 
when an inferior f*rd appears and must be tought a lesson).  The '91 
differs slightly with some refinements over the '90s, but your 
results may vary...

Later- 

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:27:50 -0300
Subject: 68 Bucket Seat Upholstery  

Hello all,

Called my local upholstery shop, Barrett's, today just to see how they'd come
in pricewise for reupholstering the black buckets from my 68 442. Knowing that
Year One wants $279 or so for the covers and $139 for foam, I expected a quote
of around $500 or so to be the going rate.

Imagine my surprise when they said "about $300" for the pair (!) assuming no
major structural work is required. Upon thinking it over, I guess they would
be getting the materials for a fraction of Year One's asking price... Maybe
they just work for a reasonable labor rate.

I should mention that Barrett's has a very good reputation for quality
restoration work among the muscle-car crowd. They seemed savvy to correct
materials, etc. I plan to bring in the Y1 catalog to compare their covers with
Y1's "correct" covers.

Anything else I should ask the upholstery shop before I give them my seats?

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:38:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: crossmember 

This reminds me of when I looked at the exhaust on my friend's '96 ch*vy 
3500 4x4 pickup.  Huge 3" dual pipes off the exhaust manifolds, each to its 
own cat, then 1 or 2 feet to a huge muffler (about 8" high x12" wide x36" 
long).  Then dual outlets.  This is with the 350.  Sort of an interesting 
setup for dual exhaust.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- ------------
My '84 Cutlass (350 4bbl.) has duals and the original (V6) crossmember.  
The duals fit just fine.  They come down and then both pipes go to the 
passenger side of the car, and run alongside each other to the back where 
they are ran to their specific sides.  Any good muffler shop should be 
able to do this.  I've seen plenty of other's (mostly cutlasses) done the 
same way.<snip>

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:36:00 -0300
Subject: Nitrous-babble

 On Tuesday, October 08, 1996 7:44AM, Jim (1970 cs conv. 355cid /340hp) 
wrote:

> I'm thinking of running Nitrous Oxide on my 1970 cs 355cid.

Jim,
I think you may be complicating things a bit here.  Nitrous oxide 
(Dinitrogen Monoxide) evaporates from it's liquid state to a gas, and then 
decomposes into nitrogen and oxygen.  As the liquid evaporates, it cools the 
intake charge a substantial amount, probably more than the OAI hood ever 
will.  This means a denser charge.  Thus, all of the things you write about 
will have to be modifed to account for the evaporative process.

Nitrous burns pistons when the extra oxygen it provides burns up every last 
fuel molecule.  An over-lean condition results and combustion temps climb 
into the danger zone.  Detonation, to the best of my knowledge, is not the 
reason why extra fuel is supplied to the motor.  It's to prevent over-lean 
conditions, which could heat up the pistons and their carbon deposits start 
to glow, and those glowing particles can cause preignition (detonation).

You can save yourself alot of sleepless nights by buying a precalibrated set 
up (i.e. a cheater plate) from Nitrous Oxide Systems (NOS).  They make an 
adjustable plate, with variable fuel/nitrous nozzles that can provide 125 to 
200 HP I think it's "The Power Shot" system) in 25 HP increments.  This is a 
great setup that can grow with you over the years as you build 
stronger/bigger motors.    As your tuning skills with nitrous grow, you can 
install an in-line fuel regulator and gradually lean it out to the ragged 
edge for more power.  As sold, these systems are deliberately set up over 
rich to protect your engine from leaning out too much.  I  and two friends 
of mine have used these systems right out of the box (all of us with stock, 
cast piston engines at the time) with great success and no ill effects.

Some additional tidbits from my nitrous days:
Get a good fuel pump.  Holley makes a good one that delivers the fuel volume 
needed for nitrous operation.

Get an Autometer in-car fuel pressure gauge with firewall-mounted isolator. 
 This enables you to safely run a fuel pressure gauge inside the car.  DO 
NOT RUN A CONVENTIONAL FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE INSIDE THE CAR!!!!  The gauge is 
mandatory with nitrous, and mounting it in the car, instead of on that 
precious OAI hood, provides a nice stealth touch.

You cannot run a cheater plate with a higher than stock manifold (in my case 
an Edelbrock Performer) and the stock OAI  hood on a 455 due to clearance 
problems.  I had to mill 1" off of my Performer (and lose 500 RPM off the 
top end flow limit) just to keep my stock OAI air cleaner and hood.  Maybe 
your small block will have enough clearance, but be aware of this and check 
things carefully.  The cheater plate adds about 3/4".

Happy gassing to you!
Scott Mullen
'70 442 sans the Wonder Bottle
'69 Cutlass 350 (RIP) that had nitrous and was unbeaten in three years of 
0-60 mph stop light duels











 

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #324
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