To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/27/96 01:56:14 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #383


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 27 November 1996    Volume 01 :
Number 383


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:12:02 -0400
Subject: Re: L6 engine

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:

> Is the Olds L6 engine of the late 60's (1968 specifically) similar to
the > C*evy six cylinder of that time?  If anybody knows and has info
about it > (timing, valve sizes, etc), please contact me via private
email.  Thanks!

   Not only is it simular, it's exactly the same.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:08:09 -0400
Subject: Trivia???

>OK, you asked for it, RR (with a GM Flavor of course) trivia now too?

GOD, NO!  Please, make it stop!!!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:15:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds  **non-olds content**

>  Anyway he ended up with a HUGE 27 or so liter (yes,
>>that's 27,000 cc) V (or Inline, don't remember) 12 cylinder.
>
>     I wonder if he used grade 8 bolts back then....  :)

Nah, he used "super 5" grade...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

At 09:42 PM 11/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Conceptually, you could dump the JATO for RATO,
>
>     ~Rocket~ Assisted Take-Off?  Hey, we already all have that!:)
Some of >us have a special appreciation for how they work, though:) >
 >      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >      500
4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com" >      Box 1255
| Montana State University-Northern >      Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds
Cutlass 425 >      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > > I was sitting here thinking, and
discovered a thread, thin one yes, but a thread to Olds never-the-less,
1/4 times and V12 airplane engines.

There were two dragsters built, and given some play in the hot rod mags
of the 50's/60's, that were evolved around the Allison V1710.

One was called Alsetta (sp.) and was an Isetta with an Allison
installed. The other was a White Garbage truck with an Allison
installed.  The White actually ran very good times, I've forgotten
anthing else about 'Alsetta.'

On the thread to Olds, the White had an Oldsmobile rear axle installed,
as the White was not considered strong enough for dragging.

The Wiz,

P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:30:10 -0400
Subject: Re: statement, and supreme console question

At 09:42 PM 11/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Can anybody (with that Olds book maybe) tell me how many '84
Cutlass=20 >>Supremes (not Calais, not Broughams) were made with the
center console=20 >>shifter and bucket seats?=20 > >     Not nearly
enough!  :(  I don't have any books to check, but I can=
 tell
>you that much!  :)
>   =20
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)
>
>
'84 Cutlass Supreme Coup=E8              132,913
'84 Cutlass Supreme Sedan               62,136
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham Coup=E8      87,207
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham Sedan      37,406

Your data does not support the conclusions, exactly; sorry.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:25:34 -0400
Subject: Re: thermostats

>Anyone else with 60's V-8's, please share your experience in this
matter. >I'd hate to be haplessly screwing up my motor somehow over not
having the >right thermostat.

I've been using a Robert-Shaw high flow 185 degree thermostat for quite
a while now, with no ill effects.  I don't see what difference it makes
if you use an OEM t-stat or aftermarket, as long as the aftermarket
opens at the right temp and flows as well as the OEM.

That's my $0.0127...


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mark D Loeffler <mdl@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:16:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

funniest shit i've bothered to read all of forever!

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:31:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Year One service manuals =(

>
> Sorry to hear that. I got my '69 Shop manual from Fusick's, and though
they > didn't advertise it as such, it was in fact a Year One reprint
(note on > title page to that effect). It was in new condition, and of
good quality > print; the only deviation from an original is the fact
that the transmission > diagrams are b&w, and thus the oil flow is in a
pattern, rather than in > color. The wiring diagrams, however, are just
as good as the original. > > So, I guess all you can say is that the
quality of Year One reprints varies, > and is _never_ as good as an
original. You get what you pay for. > I got a 71 shop manual from Year
One and it's great, even the tranny diagrams and wiring diagrams are in
color.  A friend of mine has an original shop manual and other than all
the grease on his, they're hard to tell apart.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:01:59 -0400
Subject: Re: I am not leaving the list

Hi all,

I will be going to the digest format for this list.  I will be on
travel/holiday till the second week in December.  I don't want to
have 1000+ messages (you know what I mean) when I come back.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:23:14 -0400
Subject: L6 engine

Is the Olds L6 engine of the late 60's (1968 specifically) similar to
the C*evy six cylinder of that time?  If anybody knows and has info
about it (timing, valve sizes, etc), please contact me via private
email.  Thanks!

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:44:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Fastest Olds  **non-olds content**

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDAEF.F4ADF260
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reading...old...Motor Trend...1970 issue...Englishman...Rolls Royce =
lover...one without a motor...walking around a junkyard...spots a big=20
motor...from a Spitfire...Rolls Royce...HUGE 27...liter...V (or
Inline,=20 don't remember) 12 cylinder...motor...redline...2500
rpm...doing 200+=20 mph...claimed 8's in the 1/4...but you know what
Motor Trend's =BC=20 mile times are like...full frame Rolls.. Clayton
Pierce

  First, Jay Leno has a Rolls, a 20's model, that has an aircraft engine
= in
  it, compliments of an Englishman.  The biggest problem that the car=20
  had was clutch material unable to accept the torque.  Not sure that =
this
  is the car you mention or not.  I saw a pic of it in Street Rodder or
= some
  such magazine.  The Rolls from that car would probably be a Kestrel
  instead of the Merlin that you mention...about 500 horsepower =
difference!
  Still, the Kestrel was rated around 700.
  As to redline, that is the recommended rpm, 3500 being on the high =
end.
  Propellers have a nasty habit of going supersonic if they are twirled
= too
  fast.  And when they do they make an awful racket and lose a =
considera-
  ble amount of thrust...hence, low rpm. =20
  The aluminum Olds 215 is a somewhat popular aircraft motor with the=20
  "buildityourself" crowd and they turn them upside-down and run them=20
  direct drive, which is ususual (but I suspect they keep the r's down =
to a
  reasonable level).  Most auto conversions use a gearbox that drops the
=

  rpm to half, two-thirds.  The reason they turn the Olds upside-down is
= to=20
  get the crank/prop hub higher off of the ground.  The Olds is =
preferred=20
  over the Buick because it weighs eight pounds or so less
  dj

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------------------------------

From: vescotee <vescotee@dynanet.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:36:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 400 C.I. V8 in 1975???

ljbeck1@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
>
> In message Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:10:00 -0400,
>   Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>  writes:
>
> > Drew,
> >
> > I think engine was made by Oldsmobile.  Olds didn't start secretly
> > sticking Chevy engines into its cars until later in the decade.  The
455 > > was the standard engine in the '75 Custom Cruiser, Ninety-Eight,
and > > Toronado.  The 400 was a lower cost alternative option in the
Custom > > Cruiser and Ninety-Eight.  The 455 was the only engine
available in the > > Toro. > > > > The 350 was the standard engine in
the Cutlass Cruiser/Vista Cruiser, > > Delta 88, and Delta 88 Royale.
The 400 was not the standard engine in > > anything.  It was an option
in the Delta 88 and higher lines, although > > my experience has been
like yours in that I've never > > seen nor heard of any '75 Delta 88
that didn't have either the 350 or 455. > > Thanks for the info, Dan.
It's funny that Olds brought out the 400 again > for just that one year.
I remember when the 403 appeared for '77, I > thought, "Hmmm, wonder if
this is the same engine that they used back in > '75?"  Of course, the
403 had the shorter deck height of the 350, rather > than the taller
deck of the '68 - '69 400 which shared the stroke > measurement with the
455 (4.25", wasn't it?). > > Drew Forgive my overdue introduction. I am
an Ex-GM Parts man who has a remarkably rugged ( if somewhat dull ) 1977
Cutlass ( 350 L34 Olds V-8 - No knocks, taps, smoke, A/C still blows
cold @ 143,000 + miles ). It's not speedy or pretty, but it's dependable
and I won't give it up until it is absolutely unrepairable. I must say I
enjoy the content of this mailing group. As to the question of who built
the 400 C.I. V-8 for the 1975 Deltas (as well as LeSabres) it was
Pontiac. I remember seeing an old Delta that came in for regular service
that had those wide, low valve covers and NO oil fill tube in the front
of the motor. When you looked in the parts catalogs, you saw identical
parts numbers for critical assemblies (I.E water pumps, harmonic
balancers) that the replacement parts for the engine agreed with those
offered for various Pontiac V-8's. Hope this helps.

Jim Vesco

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:08:38 -0400
Subject: Re: fastest olds

9.73 at 138 mph how's that!


Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: Scholar <jev114@email.psu.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: fastest olds
> Date: Sunday, November 24, 1996 11:34 PM
>
> At 12:20 AM 11/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >137.34 MPH, 11.67 E.T.	
> >
> Top that one!!!
>
>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:33:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Identification

>Wow I am excited! Camaro posts on the Olds list:):):)

***************************************************************
>>Please post to me directly, as I had to unsubscribe (couldn't get
through the >>messages fast enough for my sys admin).  And then the
non-olds post will only >>show once!
***************************************************************

Maybe you didn't read this part of his post...please reply to him
directly. We don't all like or want Camaro posts on the Olds list.  And
since he no longer subscribes to the list (as he stated in his post), he
won't even see your reply!

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:40:06 -0400
Subject: MATCHBOX COLLECTION FOR SALE

All,

Helen Ann Frederick is offering for sale her father's very extensive
Matchbox collection.  This collection consists of 1500+ cars covering a
period from the late 50s though the early 80s.  All but a handful of the
 cars are in absolute mint condition with the original boxes.  A number
of old catalogs, assessories, and ten (10) original store display racks
are also being offered for sale.

Interested parties may contact me directly by return email or at my
number below.  You may also contact Robert E. Frederick at (717)748-6863
 or in writing to 26 Woodland Road, Sunset Pines, Lock Haven, PA
17745.

Offers to purchase the entire collection will be given priority.

Please fee free to forward this offer to any individual, news group, or
list server you feel might be interested.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:08:54 -0400
Subject: Batteries on concrete (was: Re: Winter Storage Question)

> ... remove the battery and keep it off a concrete floor (even if
> this is an old wives tail, even olds wives tails have their root
> in truth).

Does anyone out there have a plausable explaniation for this?
I myself have had a new battery that was left on a concrete floor
and thus went bad.  (fortunatly it was under warrenty and I just
took it back for a replacement)  I was perplexed, then someone told
me that batteries left on concrete just do that.  No real explenation
of how or why, just that this is a fact of life.  My thoughts are that
the battery case is all plastic so how could it interact with the
concrete?

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:46:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

>P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?

A dark purple-ish red.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:57:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Grade 8 is great (fwd)

I can see how this got lost in the shuffle, but here is the original
post that led to all this confusion...

===
As an aside... a few weeks back I had to pull the steering wheel from my
 Skylark. I used my trusty made-in-Taiwan wheel puller, which I had
used with no problem on this car several times in the past. However,
the last time the wheel was off it was done by a shop, and they must
have reinstalled it with an air wrench.

I came onto the puller with all of my strength. I knew I was in trouble
because the previous times the wheel came off with ease but not this
time. I did everything I could to get it off and gave up only when I
noticed that the 2 5/16 bolts threaded into the wheel hub were bending
quite noticeably. In fact, it was quite a job to extract them from the
wheel because they were bent so much. Never knew I was such a gorilla...

Anyway, I replaced them with grade 5's (the only ones I could find).
Hopefully these won't bend (haven't tried it yet). If they do, then it's
 off to find some grade 8's. BTW, anyone have any tips for how to
remove a steering wheel that doesn't want to come off?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:48:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Batteries on concrete (was: Re: Winter Storage Question)

>> ... remove the battery and keep it off a concrete floor (even if
>> this is an old wives tail, even olds wives tails have their root
>> in truth).
>
>[...] My thoughts are that
>the battery case is all plastic so how could it interact with the
concrete?

The concrete floor, usually a garage floor, will be chilled at night
by the ground below to a temperature lower than that of the surrounding
air. Condensation forming on the case of the cold battery from the
surrounding air (especially in a garage with running cars, pumping out
high-humidity exhaust daily) will serve as a low-resistance path from
one terminal to the other. Hence the advice to put the battery on a
shelf or at least on a thick block of wood to serve as a temperature
insulator from the floor.

But don't just take my word for it; this is the sort of thing you can
test for yourself if you can get hold of two approximately-equal
batteries, a wooden shelf and a concrete floor. :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: bbraden@qualitybio.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:59:14 -0400
Subject: Emergency Resto Tips

     Hello all,

     Since I am on the digest now and only a few days behind, I just ran

     across the "emergency resto-tip" re: pantyhose as belts and have to

     relate this story from last week. (sort of long)

     I live in Delaware and had to go into Center City Philadelphia to
set
     up for a trade-show at the Convention Center last Sunday afternoon.
I
     decided to take the '74 Delta 88 Royale Conv. for one last spin as
it
     sold last week; to an enthusiast at least! (Second baby due in
Jan.!!)

     Background: I have had this 63K orig. mi. car for a year, (it
     previously sat out for years) and restored everything but the
paint.
     I put 20K on it as my daily driver and NEVER had a problem w/it.  I

     had  removed my tools and unused spare hoses and belts, but... said

     (fatefully) "What the heck.  It's my last chance to drive it."

     Along about the airport (as I was showing a snotty BMW the
taillights)
     the GEN light came on.  I slow and figure that it can't be too many

     things and turn off all of the electrical acc. possible and
continue
     on to center city, park, pop the hood and sure enough, NO Alt.
belt!

     I actually kidded myself that there would be some sort of garage or

     parts store, somewhere.  Ask a "helpful?" Philly cop and no dice.
The
     reality sets in downtown at 5pm on Sunday, 40 miles from home.
     Somewhere in the back of my mind this notion hits me.  I have NO
IDEA
     where I had seen it, but it was a LONG time ago.

     I proceed into the nearest drug store, through the barred doors,
and
     select some $1.99 extra large sandal foot pantyhose just as they
     closed,bear the strange looks from the woman at the register and
slink
     out of there.

     I completed my business at the convention center and head back to
the
     garage to tie these on.  I cut off the legs and used both as
"extra"
     in hopes that I might make it.

     Anyway, I did running the engine and lights only and it becomes a
     funny story as a result.
     Moral: Keep-on sharing these tips and tricks!  You never know when
     it'll pay-off!  I think this list is great.

     Bob Braden
     bbraden@qualitybio.com
     71 442
     72 442 Conv.(W30"copy" FWIW)
     74 Delta 88 Conv. No longer :-(


------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:19:00 -0400
Subject: [none]

Tom Lentz wrote:
A nut can be read the same way, the dashes on a nut will be on the flat
side
     (the mating surface).

Tom,
This answers the question I posted earlier.  Thanks a bunch!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:29:38 -0400
Subject: TH350

Everyone has been talking about the 200-4R lately and overdrive.  I was
wondering if anyone has ever tried an add on overdrive unit.  These
units bolt onto the end of a TH400 or TH350 (in place of the tailshaft).
I think you then mount a swith in the car to turn the unit off and on.
It provides overdrive for all gears (but you probably only need it in
third).  You would also probably have to shorten your driveshaft.  Does
anyone know how much these cost and how reliable they are compared to
factory overdrives.

Thanks,
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:21:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Emergency Resto Tips

>     I completed my business at the convention center and head back to
the >     garage to tie these on.  I cut off the legs and used both as
"extra" >     in hopes that I might make it. > >     Anyway, I
did running the engine and lights only and it becomes a >     funny
story as a result. >     Moral: Keep-on sharing these tips and tricks!
You never know when >     it'll pay-off!  I think this list is great.

Coming next week: "Hi! I'm a new member and have just bought a '74
convertible from some guy -- you all are never gonna believe what
I found this guy had wrapped around the alternator pulley!!!"  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:39:16 -0400
Subject: Counterfeit Fasteners

>>> First, for even a
>> bargain grade 8 bolt to be classified as grade 8, it must
>> have the minimum tensile strength you noted (otherwise it is
>> a counterfeit fastener, a serious problem facing the
>> aerospace industry).  <<<

Hit that nail on the head! (Pun intended)

Counterfeit fasteners are a BIG problem with lots of off shore junk
getting into the U.S.  I worked at a Department of Energy for a little
while and part of that time I shared trailer space with the QA
engineers.  They started with a random check of fasteners and found
something like 50% were conuterfeit.

Unfortunately, you can't even trust the markings.  You need to know
exactlyt where the fasteners came from.  If they don't know or won't
give a rapid apparently knowledgeable answer, go someplace else.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:43:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

At 02:46 PM 11/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?
>
>A dark purple-ish red.
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@gate.net
>
>
I always like the tans, and might recomment a biege; sort of a
gar-biege!

Anon

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: trannys

As far as I know, the Getrag 5-speed used in various applications
are the same internally.  Since the transmissions are made by New
Venture Gear instead of GM Muncie, I do not have current technical
 data.  (New Venture Gear is a joint venture between GM (Muncie
transmsission) and Chrysler (New Process Gear).  The information I
do have is that they are the same between models.  A good choice
would be a J-car with a 2.8/3.1l v-6, a W-car with a 2.8l v-6,
an N-car with a Quad-4.  These should all be built to the same
torque and horsepower specs.  Before the Getrag, GM used a Muncie
4-speed and an Isuzu 5-speed in these vehicles.


Here is the information that I have on the Getrag as of 1989:
HM-282 (5TM40)
200 lb/ft torque
88 lbs. dry weight
7000 RPM Maximum input speed

Ratios:    Standard   Optional
First        3.50       3.77
Seond        2.05       2.19
Third        1.38       1.38
Fourth       0.94       1.03
Fifth        0.72       0.81
Reverse      3.41       3.41
Final Drive  3.61       3.61

Standard would be for J and N cars.  Optional
 would probably be W-cars due to larger tire size
and Quad-4 due to higher operating revs.  But I
do not know this for sure.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:13 -0400
Subject: Re: statement, and supreme console question

>
>Well we send about ~30-40 mid 80's Cutlass's to the crusher per year

     Aaaack!  Don't say that here!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:04:57 -0400
Subject: Olds' for sale (long)

I found these on the AOL bulletin boards.  And, NO, I don't know any of
these people.

************************************************************************
******** From:  CALIAMARA@aol.com

I have a 1968 Olds Cutlass for you to transform into an All American
Beauty. It is from California and has been parked and garaged since
1990.  I brought it to Kansas, on a trailer in 1995.  It  needs paint, a
new top(maybe not), a left front fender and headlight assembly and a
power brake booster.  Do you have the drive and love for the classic
Olds, to reshape this baby to the beauty she deserves to be.  I have
always thought that I did but due to my recent marital seperation, my
funds will not allow for any extra-curricular spending. :(

Please respond to my ad, ASAP.  The best offer takes all!
************************************************************************
******** Subj:  67 Olds 98 Convertible $2500 From:  Carpieces@aol.com


Stored for 20 years, and deteriorated cosmetics, this low mileage car
would be a great project and  will make a worthy road hog for your
Sunday outings. Triple yellow, factory air, power windows, seats, etc.
low miles (60k) Asking $2500 or best offer, located in Phoenix,
Arizona.  Worldwide shipping arranged
************************************************************************
******** Subj:  '49 Olds Eighty/Ninety Eight From:  MORIYAMA@aol.com


For Sale:  1949 Olds, Black, 4D, Split windshield, First V8 after the
war, needs restoration, all original, was driven into garage 6 years ago
and never worked on.  $800/b.o.  In Northern New Jersey, msg to
kafix@worldnet.att.net or moriyama@aol.com.
************************************************************************
******** Subj:  70 Cutlass Supreme Convert. From:  ArtPnt1@aol.com


  Unrestored original 65k. mi.  p. top, p.s., p.b. buckets & console
,a/c , rallies etc.
  gold/gold w/ black top

ph: 219-922-7577 days

219-836-8643 eves

e-mail  ArtPnt1@aol.com
************************************************************************
********

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

>X-POP3-Rcpt: buehner@cis
>Return-Path: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>Date: 	Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:55:33 -0400
>X-Sender: wizkid@mail.inlink.com
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>That could have been the worlds fastest Chevy, now tell us the Olds
part? > >Anon.

Sorry Wizkid, but I think ya missed one list-serv detail with the
Anonymous part!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:15 -0400
Subject: Steering wheel  was:Grade 8 is great

>Anyway, I replaced them with grade 5's (the only ones I could find).
>Hopefully these won't bend (haven't tried it yet). If they do, then
it's >off to find some grade 8's. BTW, anyone have any tips for how to
remove a >steering wheel that doesn't want to come off?

Heat, possibly?  (being careful not to torch the wheel or the rest of
the car!!!)  They didn't locktite the poor thing on there, did they?!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:50:41 -0400
Subject: Re: (RE) Re: Hooker SuperComp.Header's $

Luke I called Supershops here today, and they said
the price on the supercomp headers are 339.00 and
add 175.00 for ceramic.  Make sure these headers are
not the 2 inch primary tube headers because on of the
tubes runs on the outside of the frame.  Makesure
the headers are the 1 and 7/8 th.  Only reason I am
asking is because the prices you gave are pretty expensive
and the 2 inch do cost more
SUPERSHOPS are nationwide.  There are several SS stores
in Michigan.  If you call directory assistance for the 313 area code
and ask for the city of Taylor.  get SS number and they do mailorder.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Rear sway bar question

>Here's where my confusion set in.  Now I understand...the sway bar is
>attached to the chassis and the ends of it are attached to each control
arm. >That makes sense.

Most of the ~rear~ anti-sway bars have no mounting to axle or chassis.
The ends are bolted onto the control arms, and that's it.  My old
Firebird had the sway bar clamped on to the axle tubes, and then bolted
directly to the frame on the ends, but you don't see that often.  Hope
that doesn't cloud your new view of clarity:)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: CFXR04C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN A NELSON)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:18:55 -0400
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me, CFXR04C@prodigy.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:27:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

>
>
> The Wiz,
>
> P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?

Wiz,

I know.  I know.  Chevy orange!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:28:22 -0400
Subject: Harmonic Balancer

I pulled the engine out of my Olds *last* Thanksgiving, replaced the
timing chain, oil pump, etc, blah, blah, blah.  When I pulled the
harmonic balancer, I found the two pieces of it had separated, the outer
one riding inward and scraping on the timing indicator.  I got one out
of a junkyard off of a '65 or '66 Cutlass with the original 330 in it.
I replaced my old one with it (a year ago), and have had no ill effects
as of yet.  Should get one specifically for my engine ('69 350), or is
the one off the 330 the same?

On an aside:  I pulled the heads a year before I pulled the whole
engine. When I put it back together and reinstalled the distributor, I
had to put my timing light trigger on the #3 wire, instead of the #1
wire to set the timing.  I had assumed the timing chain had been
installed incorrectly (by on of my father-in-law's mechanics), because I
*KNEW* I had installed the distributor correctly.  What had happened was
that the outer piece of the old balancer had slipped on the rubber that
holds it to the inner piece.  I didn't discover it until I pulled the
engine a year later.  I had never seen that before! - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:41:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket Engine's and axle woe''s...

Tom Lentz wrote:
>...
>      Whoops!  I just read that you're looking for a unit for your '72
442. >      Well, I can't help you there.  I know A-body rears can be
made to fit >      the G-body (and stick out just a tad), but I don't
know if it works >      the other way around.  You need to find a rear
end off of a similar >      year Cutlass, Chevelle, GTO, buick. . . >

O.k. I will bear this in mind and only as a last resort to not finding a
rear end of my era.

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:52:45 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

     I believe the improvements were made interim 1996 model year
 to the 4L60-E.
I don't think that the Cadillac was ever rated to tow 7000 lbs.  Most
GM trucks cannot tow that much.  GM vans and trucks are usually
limited to 5000 lbs towing and a car such as the Cadillac would more
likely be limited to 1500 or 2000 lbs.  That is because  of frame
and supension concerns as opposed to drivetrain.  The 7000 lb. rating
on the Cadillac is most likely a gross vehicle weight rating.
     The ratings on all 4L60-Es is 8600 lbs gross vehicle weight which
 includes the vehicle, the trailer, passengers, and cargo.  There used
 to be a separate specification on the 700-R4 which stated that it
could tow 7000 lbs.  That separate spec has been deleted from product
 information because it didn't make sense.  There are very few 1600lb
 vehicles that could tow 8600 lbs.
     The difference between the transmissions is most likely the
number of internal clutch plates.  I will try to get some model
information on AH vs BW.  The main differences between models of
the 4L60-E are: 1) different case, bellhousing, and extension
configurations, 2) varying amounts of friction plates vs. steel plates
in various clutch packs, 3) two different torque converter diameters.
Calibration differences are handled by the computer now.  In the 700-R4,
 there were as many as 35 different models to handle different shift
quality, vehicle size and load, engine size, etc.  With computer
controlled shift points, pump pressure, converter lockup point and
speed, etc., the need for different mechanical calibrations is required.

     Note that the 8600 spec is a maximum for the transmission.  Vehicle
 towing capacity is dependent upon engine size, transmission, rear axle
ratio, and optional equipment.

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------



------------------------------

From: "Tracy H. Shires" <twodogs@ou.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:20:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rocket Engine's and axle woe''s...

unsubscribe twodogs@ou.edu

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:18:37 -0400
Subject: Re: GM rear axle recall

When he looked to his left, he saw his
> left wheel and axle shaft assembly flying across the median of I-75.
I do not > remember what the allowable end play is.  Maybe someone knows
this? > > Steve Ochs

Steve,

It sounds like GM's tolerance was about 30'.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Vicki Lee Peterson <gs02vlp@panther.Gsu.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:57:29 -0400
Subject: Re: (RE) Re: Hooker SuperComp.Header's $

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> Luke I called Supershops here today, and they said
> the price on the supercomp headers are 339.00 and
> add 175.00 for ceramic.  Make sure these headers are
> not the 2 inch primary tube headers because on of the
> tubes runs on the outside of the frame.  Makesure
> the headers are the 1 and 7/8 th.  Only reason I am
> asking is because the prices you gave are pretty expensive
> and the 2 inch do cost more
> SUPERSHOPS are nationwide.  There are several SS stores
> in Michigan.  If you call directory assistance for the 313 area code
> and ask for the city of Taylor.  get SS number and they do mailorder.
>
> W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
>
>
>
If you want cheap headers look in jc whiney out of chicago.  I bought a
cheap but decent pair of headers for 79.99. inch and 7/8 tube into 3
inch colletor. You may have trouble with the header hitting the starter.
it hits on mine and burnt it out.  I had a hell of time figuring out
what the problem was it started fine in the morning and when i drove
somewhere it wouldn't start acted like a dead battery.  I replaced my
alt,batt, and still.  But i figured it out.

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:02:35 -0400
Subject: Re: trannys

On 26 Nov 96 at 17:52, Steve Ochs wrote:

> Here is the information that I have on the Getrag as of 1989:
> HM-282 (5TM40)
> 200 lb/ft torque
> 88 lbs. dry weight
> 7000 RPM Maximum input speed

Steve,

Are you saying if I modify my prom to take out the rev limiter, or
hit it too many times I could trash my tranny?  I think it's a little
silly of the General to design and test an engine for extended
periods at revs 3k over the limit they have for the tranny.

Of course, these are the same folks who put a tranny behind my
3.8H.O. Ciera GT  that would self destruct when driven hard (3 replaced
trannys in 60K miles).  With that reliability rate, you'd think it
was a '86 442 with the 200-R4 :-(

Thanks

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (Keeping under the rev limiter for a few days....)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:56:29 -0400
Subject: Mail Plugged Up

Gang, just to let you know, we are having some router problems here that
 are causing the mail system to work intermittently at best. There was
a backlog from the weekend that looks like it got cleared out this
afternoon and there may still be some that hasn't got out yet. Bear with
 me... CCN seems to be under the weather in general the last few days
with various and sundry problems aside from mail. Sorry for the
inconvenience.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:32:53 -0400
Subject: Body style Question

Just a quick question,please. Could someone explain to me which body
style is an "A" body and which one is a "G" body. I think someone
already posted the difference,but I lost that post. Thanks....

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Vicki Lee Peterson <gs02vlp@panther.Gsu.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:25:20 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile

Hello everyone.  I glad i found other people who enjoy Oldsmobile. For
awhile i thought i was the only one.  Well let me tell you my story how
i got my 1979 cutlass with t-tops.  One of my frieds had 3 olds cutlass.
So i offered him $1000 for his 1979.  He said yes and since he traded
his truck to a body shop for the cutlass the cutlass came with a brand
new paint job.  The car was a southern car. I live in chicago i towed it
home over 300 miles Not much rust the fram is still undercoded.(Its a
pain to work under the car thats been  undercoded its very sticky and
can be a really pain). But I was told it had a 350 olds in it.  It
needed some work.  New vally pan and some tune ups.  so I did it. And
when i got it started it threw a rod instally.  the car sat all winter.
So I pulled the engine and to my surprise  someone had put in  a olds
403 and also had a th400 and shortend the driveshft had the frame
reinforced the frame in sevral places and a sway bar on the differental.
Now it has a olds 350 in it all stock but the eldenbrock carb and
manafold.  SO where does everyone order the cutlass parts from.  I
looking for aftermarket heads for a 403, A gear driven timing chain, And
lots other parts can anyone help me.  and also i looking for a posi
rear, that will bolt up with out to much trouble new or used.(so i can
hook up all the power and tourque).Thanks to everyone who read this
letter. JEFF   1979 olds cutlass	
       1996 dodge dakota
gs02vlp@panther.edu.esu

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:38:58 -0400
Subject: Re: GM rear axle recall

I want to say that it was 1/16th, but don't hold me to that. I asked the
mechanic a few questions when I took my 79 in for the recall. Basically,
if there is more than that in sidewards movement, it should be removed
and replaced oor repaired. I do remember that.

Katana72

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:40:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing steering wheel

The proper tool for the proper job. A steering wheel puller is
relatively cheap and sure eases a lot of headaches.


Katana72

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:39:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile

Vicki Lee Peterson wrote:
>
> Hello everyone.  I glad i found other people who enjoy Oldsmobile. For
> awhile i thought i was the only one.  Well let me tell you my story
how i > got my 1979 cutlass with t-tops.  One of my frieds had 3 olds
cutlass.  So > i offered him $1000 for his 1979.  He said yes and since
he traded his > truck to a body shop for the cutlass the cutlass came
with a brand new > paint job.  The car was a southern car. I live in
chicago i towed it home > over 300 miles Not much rust the fram is still
undercoded.(Its a pain to > work under the car thats been  undercoded
its very sticky and can be a > really pain). But I was told it had a 350
olds in it.  It needed some > work.  New vally pan and some tune ups.
so I did it. And when i got it > started it threw a rod instally.  the
car sat all winter.  So I pulled the > engine and to my surprise
someone had put in  a olds 403 and also had a > th400 and shortend the
driveshft had the frame  reinforced the frame in > sevral places and a
sway bar on the differental.  Now it has a olds 350 in > it all stock
but the eldenbrock carb and manafold.  SO where does everyone > order
the cutlass parts from.  I looking for aftermarket heads for a 403, > A
gear driven timing chain, And lots other parts can anyone help me.  and >
also i looking for a posi rear, that will bolt up with out to much >
trouble new or used.(so i can hook up all the power and >
tourque).Thanks to everyone who read this letter. > JEFF   1979 olds
cutlass >        1996 dodge dakota > gs02vlp@panther.edu.esu

Jeff,
	Well, most of us get our old Olds parts from Year One (800
950 9503) and Fusick (860 623 1583).  Have that credit card handy, these
 catalogs do have a small price.  But these catalogs don't have many,
if any, parts in them that have to do with the 79 Olds, it's just too
new. 	As for that posi, go with a Chevy rear end.  I know from personal
experience that it is damn near impossible to find a new or used Olds
posi unit.  Remember, the Olds/GM rearend is different than the
Chevy/GM rearend, even if they are both GM.  But if you happen to come
across a new/used Olds 12 bolt posi unit, I'll buy it from you for a
very fair (to you) price. Brad '70 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:12:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Emergency Resto Tips

At 04:21 PM 11/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>     I completed my business at the convention center and head back to
the >>     garage to tie these on.  I cut off the legs and used both as
"extra" >>     in hopes that I might make it. >> >>     Anyway, I
did running the engine and lights only and it becomes a >>     funny
story as a result. >>     Moral: Keep-on sharing these tips and
tricks!  You never know when >>     it'll pay-off!  I think this list
is great. > >Coming next week: "Hi! I'm a new member and have just
bought a '74 >convertible from some guy -- you all are never gonna
believe what >I found this guy had wrapped around the alternator
pulley!!!"  :-) > >Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc. >101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet:
acg@dlogics.com >Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282 >
Two turns of a generator belt?

Anon.

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:19:55 -0400
Subject: GM Rear Axles

KDPorter Wrote:
>> I recently rebuild a 86 monte carlo ss rear end,the car was all
>>original,the rear was a 7.5 ring gear.I ordered new gears from
richmond >>gear.I have took alot of G body rears apart and have never
seen a 8.5 ring >>gear on any of these cars.The 7.5/8 ring gear was the
heavy unit only in the >>S-10 s & blazers done alot of those also.If
anyone has a 8.5 ring gear in >>there G body i want to see it.

Before you make a rash statement like this, you might want to check your
 information first.  Just because you haven't seen a 8.5" ring gear,
doesn't mean that they don't exist.  First, ALL '81-'88 G-Bodies used a
7.5" ring gear rear axle EXCEPT: Monte Carlo SS - 7-5/8" 3.73, Olds 442
- 8.5" 3.73, T-Type and Grand National - 8.5" 3.42 or 3.73.  The 8.5"
axle is the same used in the B-body (full sized) except a shorter axle
tube length.  Second, the 7-5/8" axle is actually used in the mid 80's
F-bodies Camaro & Firebird.  This axle is the one used in the Monte
Carlo SS.  Third, the '80s S and T trucks use a 7.5" ring gear axle.  A
short trip to the service manuals on these vehicles is all it takes to
check this information out.

The 442 and Regal axles are hard to find because 442s are rare and most
T-types and Grand Nationals are not junked yet.  For older Cutlasses,
the B-body 8.5" axle might fit better than the G-body axle.

This information is direct from the appropriate GM service manuals and
also can be verified on the Turbo Regal Home Page.  The Turbo Regal page
has a list by year, engine, transmission which axle was used starting
in 1978.

              RPO           |--------Axle Code--------|
Ring Gear    Code   Ratio   Conventional   Limited Slip
- -------------------------------------------------------
  7.5"        G72    2.14       2AK            2BK   (aluminum brake
drums)
  7.5"        GH2    2.29       2AH            2BH
  7.5"        GU1    2.41     2AJ,2AZ        2BJ,2BZ
  7.5"        GM8    2.56       2AA            2BA
  7.5"        GU2    2.73     2AB,2AX        2BB,2BX
  7.5"        GU4    3.08     2AC,2AV        2BC,2BV
  7.5"        GU5    3.23       2AD            2BD
  7.625"      GT4    3.73       2TF            2TH   (Monte Carlo SS)
  8.5"        GU6    3.42       3TP            3TJ   (T-Type, GN Std.)
  8.5"        GT4    3.73     3TG,3TE        3TR,3TX (442, GN Opt.)

  8.5"        GU2    2.73       8YB            8YP   (B-Body)
  8.5"        GU4    3.08       8YD            8YR   (B-Body)
  8.5"        GU5    3.23       8YE            8YS   (B-Body)

                              ---------------------------
Steve Ochs                    |                         |
Engineer                      |     ##     ###     ###  |
GM Powertrain -               |   #    #   #  #   #  #  |
Transmission Division         |  #         #   # #   #  |
(4T60/65-E)                   |  #   ####  #    #    #  |
                              |   #    #   #         #  |
'87 Olds 442                  |     ##     #         #  |
'87 Grand National            |                         |
'76 Cutlass 'S'               |  The Mark of Exellence  |
                              ---------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Randy Mayo" <mayo@horizon.hit.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:52:00 -0400
Subject: 1968 Toronado

I am looking for a flywheel for '68 Toro.
mayo@horizon.hit.net

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:05:24 -0400
Subject: Kalmbach Pubs model kit survey

Howdy, rocket-riders!  A few days ago there was a msg on the Toronado
List about Kalmbach Publishing's Fine Scale Modeler magazine and its
survey re model kits... I tried to email the survey and couldn't (email
bounced).  FYI, found out today from the web-buster @ Kalmbach, they
_did_ have a problem with an alias or an address change or something.
So the Kalmbach survey email works now.  In case you didn't see the
note, mag wants to know what models we'd like!  See Fine Scale Modeler's
home page, start at www.kalmbach.com, it's all linked.

Any comments on this message, please send to me direct at
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us as I'm not a subscriber.

Seeya!

Doug Kitchener
Lansing in '97!

Oldsmobile - Always A Step Ahead!

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 02:44:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 1968 Toronado

Randy Mayo wrote:

> I am looking for a flywheel for '68 Toro.

Randy,

Do you know if the flywheel/flexplate is the same as 66 or 67?
Isn't it available?
How fast do you need it?

What part of the world do you reside?

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:35:49 -0400
Subject: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

Well guys, and gals, I went today and pilfered some items off the car I
found at the junkyard nearby.  It's always fun working on a car outside
when it's 30 degrees, and you need to lay on the ground to snag the
trans shift bracket/linkage, etc. from under the car (with flats on
front and back of that side of course, making room under the car slim to
none.  It took me two an hour and a half to remove the parts, and I
think I did good on price.  All parts were from an '83 Calais.

I picked up the guage package, actual clock (analog w/hands, rather than
the cheesy "psuedo" digital one), new style of light switch (rather than
pull knob type), trim piece that goes around the light switch, and air
vent on left side of instrument cluster (original one in mine dind't
have an air vent, so I creatively used it to mount my oil pressure guage
in, by drilling a hole in it, so now with the guages, I needed a new
one), center console (complete), and the shifter/cable/linkage set-up on
it.

Cost of the whole deal..... $115.00

Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body colored
mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine has the chrome
"box" ones), and it sounds like I'll be back there on Friday since it's
supposed to warm up starting Thursday.  Have to get a set of #7 heads
from a motor out I found hidden out of the way and the guy says he has
some real good rims put up in a shed there, and I would like some of the
stock type for it.

Now to just figure out when I want to tackle these two projects....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Jesse Hargus <sfjesse@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:59:06 -0400
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe Jesse Hargus

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 02:21:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile

At 08:25 PM 11/26/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello everyone.  I glad i found other people who enjoy Oldsmobile. For
>awhile i thought i was the only one.  Well let me tell you my story how
i [snip]

Welcome to the list; Nice to have a '79 in such good condition. I have
noticed that there are a *LOT* of '78-'80 Cutlasses around here (Rhode
Island). If I ever totalled my Electra, the first choice for its built
403 would be an '83-'87 H/O or 442, but second would be a car like
yours, with T-tops.

>SO where does everyone
>order the cutlass parts from.

The dealer or the parts store; you'd be amazed at what is still
available (I can't imagine any mechanicals that you couldn't get over
the counter at your local auto parts store; only now am I having a hard
time finding some parts for my '69 Toro, but I still can get most things
that way).

>I looking for aftermarket heads for a 403,

No such thing, though Edelbrock has mentioned/threatened that it may
release an aluminum "Performer" head for the Olds. In the meantime, get
a set of #7a heads from a '72 350- hardened valve seats, big ports,
small chambers for higher compression, usually for under $500, including
machine work (use your 2.00" intake valves from your 403, and keep the
#7a's 1.65" exhausts).

>A gear driven timing chain, And lots other parts can anyone help me.
and >also i looking for a posi rear, that will bolt up with out to much
>trouble new or used.(so i can hook up all the power and
>tourque).Thanks to everyone who read this letter.

Don't put your money into a gear drive for the cam, unless you need the
cool "blower sound" that it makes; the windowed webs of the 403 would
give way long before any decent timing chain would. Check into the
prices of complete rebuild kits for the 403 from Performance Suspension
Technology (PST) or Kanter's auto (both on the Olds web page); I was
very happy with mine, it included high-quality parts, and you cannot
beat the price ($445 for a complete rebuild kit; with all options, I
spent less than $600 for a kit with all new valvetrain parts, forged
pistons, high-volume oil pump, performance cam and chrome-moly rings (in
addition to bearings, gaskets, etc).
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:39:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

>I picked up the guage package, actual clock (analog w/hands, rather
than the >cheesy "psuedo" digital one), new style of light switch
(rather than pull >knob type),

You'd need the main black plastic housing that the guages screwed into
for this.  It spans from the corner vent to just past the clock and
surrounding vents (The smaller dash pad mounts to this piece as well.)
The headlight switch plugs directly into the wiring harness, which
mounts directly to this large plastic housing (what the @^%&# is that
thing called!?? :)  The old style has the wiper switch mounted in the
location this new switch goes. Did you get the steering column?  That
wiper switch on the turn signal is pretty handy if you want to try
swapping this headlight switch.  If you just grabbed the switch to grab
it, I can't blame you, cuz it's "right there!" They are kinda neat, but
it bothers me that the plex labels are not backlit in there.  At night,
it's tough to find the light switch, since there's nothing nearby to
even help locate it in the dark.  (Anyone with both a pre- and post-'82
knows what I mean, here!)  Anyway, back to this large plastic nameless
mounting panel thingy!  Behind this headlight switch, after the whole
panel's removed, you'll find a piece of ductwork and an air hose going
down to the crotch-cooler vent.  This is a nice piece to grab, 'cuz
you're new vent will be worthless without it.  (if your car doesn't have
A/C I'm assuming?  You'd mentioned just a flat panel being there, but
I've never seen one of these, so I'm just guessing, here....)

>Cost of the whole deal..... $115.00

Cool....

>Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body colored
>mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine has the chrome
"box" >ones),
     Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on one of these cars, either!  I
guess I'm pamperred up here!  Some of these actually had passenger side
remote (body-colored sport) mirrors, too!  My '83 does, and I've never
seen another one!  The control is in the lower dash just to the right of
the steering column.  (Opposite side of column has identical size box
with cruise button, and some had rear defrost there, instead...)


and it sounds like I'll be back there on Friday since it's supposed to
>warm up starting Thursday.

They've been teasing us like that for weeks, now!  I wish it really
would!


>Now to just figure out when I want to tackle these two projects....

Good luck when you do...  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 06:43:01 -0400
Subject: Just testing.....Discard this one

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Just testing if Your server is down.

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:59:09 -0400
Subject: Just a test, don't read

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:35:28 -0400
Subject: THM-350 Woes

Gang,

Sticking my head in from over on the Toro list - need your help, wisdom
and experience.  Please reply to my e-mail address above.  Thanks!

My '72 Cutlass S had been experiencing a problem where after it was
fully warmed up, it wouldn't upshift to 3rd on moderate to heavy
acceleration.  I could usually fiddle with the shifter between "2" and
"N", and it would drop in.  Yesterday, it just plain wouldn't go into
third at all.  The 1-2 shift is fine, but the 2-3 shift is non-existent.
It's one of those deals where it *feels* like it dropped into third, but
when you hit the gas, there's a "slipping" feel to it, and it picks up
in second.  Yes, I've changed the filter/fluid/modulator, and yes, there
was a little more metal in the pan than I'd be happy with.  Any ideas?

Gregg Ludlam - '67 Toronado Deluxe, '72 Cutlass S
See me and the Toro at http://www.442.com/ludlam.html

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:43:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

CRuper1@aol.com wrote:
>
> Well guys, and gals, I went today and pilfered some items off the car
I found > at the junkyard nearby. > > I picked up the guage package,
actual clock (analog w/hands, rather than the > cheesy "psuedo" digital
one), new style of light switch (rather than pull > knob type), trim
piece that goes around the light switch, and air vent on > left side of
instrument cluster (original one in mine dind't have an air > vent, so I
creatively used it to mount my oil pressure guage in, by drilling > a
hole in it, so now with the guages, I needed a new one), center console >
(complete), and the shifter/cable/linkage set-up on it. > > Cost of the
whole deal..... $115.00 > > Still looks like I have a few more things
to get from it (body colored > mirrors with cable actuated remotes for
one since mine has the chrome "box" > ones), and it sounds like I'll be
back there on Friday since it's supposed to > warm up starting Thursday.
Have to get a set of #7 heads from a motor out I > found hidden out of
the way and the guy says he has some real good rims put > up in a shed
there, and I would like some of the stock type for it. > > Now to just
figure out when I want to tackle these two projects.... > > Chris Ruper

Chris,

I enjoy those junk yards & the marvelous finds that are everywhere.  The
rarest cars are often found in out of the way places.  Usually the car
can't be saved, but the unique parts can be.

I also like the creativity & re-engineering that goes w/applying these
parts to my old car.  It is so satisfying to come up w/a nice sanitary
solution to getting them on your car.  I don't know what I'll do when
these yards are no more.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Frank Iezzi <fiezzi@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:10:35 -0400
Subject: Need '69 Cutlass 'S' hood

Someone backed into my 69 Cutlass 'S' and damaged the hood.  Although
repairable (says the bodyman), I'd like one which would require no
bondo...  Anyone have a nice, rust-free, dent-free hood available?
Have for possible trade a NOS '68 Cutlass conv trunklid, acquired from a
dealer going out of business several years ago.
Don't get to read all the posts to the list, so please send private
e-mail Thanks Frank Iezzi

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:52:46 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: GM Transmissions


          I just wanted to thank Steve Ochs for his posts on GM
          transmissions.  This type of technical data is great.
          Please keep it up.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:49:28 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Fastest Olds

> The Wiz,
>
> P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?

Wiz,

I know.  I know.  Chevy orange!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

          Wait a minute!  Since when is Charlie Buehner signing Bill
          Culp's name to his posts? ;-)

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:55:27 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Rear sway bar question

...My old Firebird had the sway bar clamped on to the axle tubes, and
then bolted directly to the frame on the ends, but you don't see that
often...


          Actually, I think this type of mounting is pretty common on
          leaf-spring cars.  You are right, however, that most
          coil-spring cars use a bar attached to the lower control
          arms (talking about the rear axle only here).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:05:32 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 1968 Toronado

> I am looking for a flywheel for '68 Toro...

...Do you know if the flywheel/flexplate is the same as 66 or 67?

          NO.  The bolt pattern on the crank changed between 67
          and 68.

Isn't it available?

          I'm not a Toro-head, but aren't all 68-up automatic
          (RWD and Toro) flywheels the same?


          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:43:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

At 03:39 AM 11/27/96 -0400, buehner wrote:

>>Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body colored
>>mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine has the chrome
"box" >>ones), >     Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on one of these
cars, either!  I guess >I'm pamperred up here!  Some of these actually
had passenger side remote >(body-colored sport) mirrors, too!  My '83
does, and I've never seen another >one!  The control is in the lower
dash just to the right of the steering >column.  (Opposite side of
column has identical size box with cruise button, >and some had rear
defrost there, instead...)

My 80 442 has the passenger side remote and I saw one 83 in the yard
last year with it also. I don't see it too often. - - - - - - - - - - -
- Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93
Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2 a real muscle car...bone
stock! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30 ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in reality)..a
pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project that is
currently up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:37:06 -0400
Subject: LIFTER PRE-LOAD - long sorry

This subject has come up before but we really didn't get to the heart of
it. Now that the car is stored for the winter, more like it won't go
outside, I can do what it really needs, head work...

BACKGROUND:

'72 Cutlass w/ the 442 package
	350/350TH  2.73:1

The engine was rebuilt about 3 years ago and since then I havn't put
more than 200 km on the car. I'd rather compute it in hours rather than
mileage. Anyway, close to the end of the rebuild I decided to use a set
of NOS #5 heads. The valves looked good and with some lapping they held
gas in the bowl with no leakage. So I cleaned them up and put the heads
in. Of course I used new lifters, they came with the cam I ordered from
Mondello a JM-16-18 along with the correct springs. On went the heads
with the new springs. I used the old pushrods and at first I just
tightened down everything but then I went back and did one valave at a
time.

At first I didn't get the valve chatter but as time went on I noticed
that the chatter was getting louder and louder. Right now it sounds like
a tractor and I noticed that cylinder #3, I can move the pushrod with my
fingers up and down. In all the play is too excessive for my patience
and now I want to addrees the problem. I want to do this the cheapest
way I can get away with which means if chaging the pushrods will cure it
then that's it. But If I have to redo the heads I guess that's what I
will do.

I also looked into getting the Comp. Cam kit 1441 which uses the
adjustable rockers and guide plates. This kit needs no machining but the
price for the kit which includes the roller rocker, 5/16 studs, p-rods
and the guide plates is $500 CND. A little too rich for me right now
especially since I havn't even redone the heads. However this is an
option fore me but first I want to go down the list and find out what
exactly the problem is.

I bought a deflection guage and I'm now ready to use it. Last we left it
that the JM-16-18 cam requires longer than stock push rods but we wern't
sure what length so that's what the deflection guages is for.

What I need right now is to go through the correct procedure for
measuring the length I need. If I have to I will fabricate an adjustable
pushrod from an old one. So guys tell what to do....

Fernando

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:50:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

At 02:43 AM 11/28/96 -0400, Lloyd Culp wrote:

>I enjoy those junk yards & the marvelous finds that are everywhere.
The >rarest cars are often found in out of the way places.  Usually the
car >can't be saved, but the unique parts can be.

Thats what is nice about being in the business. I wake up every Saturday
and go through the new weekly presents and I am amazed at what I find
sometimes (Like the E head 455 in the 82 4 door Cutlass!) One rule of
thumb I have learned is ~always~ pop the hood, even on a Yugo....never
know what kind of wild horsepower trip the previous owner was on:) - -
- - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2 a real
muscle car...bone stock! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30 ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30
in reality)..a pretend muscle car 75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration
project that is currently up for $sale$

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 04:38:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Fastest Olds

>
> > The Wiz,
> >
> > P.S. What color, is the definitive color, to paint a trash truck?
>
> Wiz,
>
> I know.  I know.  Chevy orange!
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
>
>           Wait a minute!  Since when is Charlie Buehner signing Bill
>           Culp's name to his posts? ;-)
>
>           Joe Padavano
>
Joe,

I did it myself.  I'd have said Ford blue, but I can't remember what
color Ford uses (anyone recall?) & Chrysler keeps changing; probably
just to confuse me.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  I hope no-one takes offense.  Honestly, I'd own them all if I
could.

------------------------------

From: "Chuck Kapigian" <chuck@mhbc.hbocvan.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:04:34 -0400
Subject: [none]

   I would like some information on how to join the Hurst/Olds Club of
America.

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:40:04 -0400
Subject: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

Could one of the Toro-heads or the parts gods tell me if the
air cleaner housing from a Toronado (the double snorkle kind)
would fit under the hood of my 98?  The specific years in
question are a 69 98 and a 68-69 Toronado.  The 98 has a
455 with a Q-jet.  I don't know about the Toronado but it
should be either a 425 or a 455 with a Q-jet, right?
I'm no Toro expert but I don't think they put other engines/carbs
in Toronados those years... (and I'm sure that if I'm wrong someone
will correct me :)

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:52:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

>You'd need the main black plastic housing that the gauges screwed
>into for this.  It spans from the corner vent to just past the clock
>and surrounding vents (The smaller dash pad mounts to this piece as
>well.)  The headlight switch plugs directly into the wiring harness,
>which mounts directly to this large plastic housing (what the @^%&#
>is that thing called!?? :)

Umm... the "cluster housing"? Study it carefully before spending a
lot of time with it: those things did _not_ age well and the plastic
or fibreglass or whatever it was made of is rather brittle. Same for
the light blue plastic gauge housing. Look for broken fasteners,
especially along the lower edge of the wide rectangular dash surround
that attaches to the front. Pick a car where the dash hasn't already
been ripped open and unscrew things carefully.

>If you just grabbed the switch to grab it, I can't blame you, cuz
>it's "right there!" They are kinda neat, but it bothers me that the
>plex labels are not backlit in there.  At night, it's tough to find
>the light switch, since there's nothing nearby to even help locate
>it in the dark.

Actually, on a 1986 Cutlass Supreme I rented once back then, there
was a little LED installed _in_ the split rocker light switch which
gave just enough light to find the rocker in the dark. My '82 Supreme
did not have that. Definitely see if you can find that later one (just
look for a Cutlass with a high-mount brake light on the rear shelf).
It may have had a slightly different wiring harness, though, since the
LED would only be on when the ignition was on.

>>Still looks like I have a few more things to get from it (body
>>colored mirrors with cable actuated remotes for one since mine
>>has the chrome "box" ones),
>     Ouch!  I've never seen ~those~ on one of these cars, either!
>I guess I'm pampered up here!  Some of these actually had passenger
>side remote (body-colored sport) mirrors, too!  My '83 does, and I've
>never seen another one!  The control is in the lower dash just to the
>right of the steering column.

...and may have seized up from old age. See if you can get the mirror
to work with the control -- squirt WD-40 or Liquid Wrench into the back
of the mirror, poke at the glass with your fingers, whatever...

>(Opposite side of column has identical size box with cruise button,
>and some had rear defrost there, instead...)

I think it may be only the pre-'82 (or maybe pre-'81) Cutlasses that
have the rear defrost elsewhere: up at top center above the analog
clock (if so equipped). I have a spare center panel snagged from an
older wagon with that switch up there.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:25:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
>
> Could one of the Toro-heads or the parts gods tell me if the
> air cleaner housing from a Toronado (the double snorkle kind)
> would fit under the hood of my 98?  The specific years in
> question are a 69 98 and a 68-69 Toronado.

Don't have a 68 or 69 to check but I just went and measured the air
cleaner on my 66.  They're VERY low profile.  It only measures about
3 3/4" high but since it droops down over the carb, it only extends
maybe 1 3/4" above the top of the carb body.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:45:23 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Rear Axles

     Steve, easy on Mr. Porter.  He never said they didn't exist, or
that
     anyone here was wrong, he just said he never saw one.

     So theoretically if I could find a B-body car with a positraction,
     could I steal the carrier to use in my '84 H/O?  Would it have to
be a
     3.xx series carrier to fit?  What cars are B-bodies?  88's, '98's,
     Riveras?

     That table you gave is either incomplete, for a specific year only,
or
     for Buicks only.  The code on my 3.73 8.5" is 6TF G 028, which is
     mentioned and verified in the table in my Haynes manual.

     Hmm. . . would there be any benefit to pilfering the aluminum drums

     from a code 2AK axle?

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: GM Rear Axles Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/26/96 7:37 PM


KDPorter Wrote:
>>I have took alot of G body rears apart and have never seen a 8.5 ring
>>gear on any of these cars.The 7.5/8 ring gear was the heavy unit only
in the >>S-10 s & blazers done alot of those also.If anyone has a 8.5
ring gear in >>there G body i want to see it.

Before you make a rash statement like this, you might want to check your
 information first.  Just because you haven't seen a 8.5" ring gear,
doesn't mean that they don't exist.  First, ALL '81-'88 G-Bodies used a
7.5" ring gear rear axle EXCEPT: Monte Carlo SS - 7-5/8" 3.73, Olds 442
- 8.5" 3.73, T-Type and Grand National - 8.5" 3.42 or 3.73.  The 8.5"
axle is the same used in the B-body (full sized) except a shorter axle
tube length.  Second, the 7-5/8" axle

This information is direct from the appropriate GM service manuals and
also can be verified on the Turbo Regal Home Page.  The Turbo Regal
page has a list by year, engine, transmission which axle was used
starting in 1978.

              RPO           |--------Axle Code--------|
Ring Gear    Code   Ratio   Conventional   Limited Slip
- -------------------------------------------------------
  7.5"        G72    2.14       2AK            2BK   (aluminum brake
  drums)
  [snippage]
  8.5"        GT4    3.73     3TG,3TE        3TR,3TX (442, GN Opt.)


------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:01:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

>Could one of the Toro-heads or the parts gods tell me if the
>air cleaner housing from a Toronado (the double snorkle kind)
>would fit under the hood of my 98?  The specific years in
>question are a 69 98 and a 68-69 Toronado.  The 98 has a
>455 with a Q-jet.  I don't know about the Toronado but it
>should be either a 425 or a 455 with a Q-jet, right?
>I'm no Toro expert but I don't think they put other engines/carbs
>in Toronados those years... (and I'm sure that if I'm wrong someone
>will correct me :)
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products
Division >tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications
Corporatio

Travis --

To the best of my knowledge the 68-69 Toro's only had single snorkle air
cleaners.  Even the W-34 Toro's I have owned (a '68 and a '70) have only
one snorkle with a cold air duct attached. 1966 and '67 Toro's were the
only years with dual inlets. A very low profile one too!  I put one on a
'73 cutlass 350 and it looked strange.  It barely cleared the valve
covers and sat REALLY low!

The real difference in '68 and newer cars is that the Toro's snorkle
faced the drivers side of the car and all '68 to '72 full size cars face
the passenger side.  In '73,  all snorkles faced the drivers side.
Little help when trying to hook up the hot-air pipe!

How about welding an additional snorkle on to your air cleaner off of
another full size car???  That is how they did it on the 83-4 Hurst
cars!

Tony

Cars.......                                     Boats......
70 442 W-30                                     70 Rayson Craft flat
bottom 70 Toro GT W-34                                 455 Olds V-drive
65 Jetstar 88 w/4spd                            79 Sidewinder jet 455
Olds 85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer                 86 Wellcraft Nova
454 Chev 92 Seville STS

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:09:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilfered items from junkyard!.....More projects...

>At 02:43 AM 11/28/96 -0400, Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
>>I enjoy those junk yards & the marvelous finds that are everywhere.
The >>rarest cars are often found in out of the way places.  Usually the
car >>can't be saved, but the unique parts can be. > >Thats what is nice
about being in the business. I wake up every Saturday and >go through
the new weekly presents and I am amazed at what I find sometimes >(Like
the E head 455 in the 82 4 door Cutlass!) One rule of thumb I have
>learned is ~always~ pop the hood, even on a Yugo....never know what
kind of >wild horsepower trip the previous owner was on:) >- - - - - - -
- - - - >Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
>93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), PEG2 a real muscle car...bone
stock! >80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30 ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30  in reality)..a
pretend muscle car >75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project that is
currently up for $sale$


I hear ya Jason!!!

I have been in the business for many years and I have countless stories
of "road treasures"!!!  It is nice to have first crack at the good
stuff!

Pop trunks too!  (I got a pair of D heads and a 66 tri power intake out
of a trunk of a 66 Dynamic 88 about 10 years ago!!!)

Tony

Cars.....                                          Boats......
70 442 W-30                                        70 Rayson Craft flat
bottom 70 Toro GT W-34                                    455 Olds
V-drive 65 Jetstar 88 w/4spd                               79 Sidewinder
jet 455 Olds 85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer                    86
Wellcraft Nova 454 Chev 92 Seville STS


 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
\_\_


                                        Tony Waldner
tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us                Northeast Metro 916
                                         3300 Century Ave. N.
                                         White Bear Lake, MN
                                                       55110

 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_+++_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:25:38 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 1968 Toronado

>> I am looking for a flywheel for '68 Toro...
>
>...Do you know if the flywheel/flexplate is the same as 66 or 67?
>
>          NO.  The bolt pattern on the crank changed between 67
>          and 68.
>
>Isn't it available?
>
>          I'm not a Toro-head, but aren't all 68-up automatic
>          (RWD and Toro) flywheels the same?
>
>
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>


Yep!  All flywheels are the same from '68 to '79.  Starting in '79, the
Toro-Riv-Eldo flywheels are a slightly smaller diameter. The rear drive
cars are the same as the '68 and newer cars but are stamped "METRIC" and
have additional converter holes to accomodate the newer style converters
used on th200's beginning in '79. they will still work just fine in the
older models.

Tony

Cars......                                          Boats.........
70 442 W-30                                         70 Rayson Craft flat
bottom 70 Toro GT W-34                                     455 Olds
V-drive 65 Jetstar 88 w/4spd                                79
Sidewinder jet 455 Olds 85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
86 Wellcraft Nova 454 Chev 92 Seville STS

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:36:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro air cleaner on a 98?

Tony Waldner wrote:

> To the best of my knowledge the 68-69 Toro's only had single snorkle
air > cleaners.  Even the W-34 Toro's I have owned (a '68 and a '70)
have only > one snorkle with a cold air duct attached. 1966 and '67
Toro's were the > only years with dual inlets

Tony,

A very keen observation! You beat me to it!

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:41:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Steering wheel  was:Grade 8 is great

as for the steering wheel, most that i have seen are a press fit, locked
down bya snap ring (of sorts) and a large nut...

After taking off the nut, you can find 2 threaded holes (sometimes 3) on
either side of it....   hey...  I just thought of a resto tip...  check
the new resto tip for the rest of the "removal tool"...

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #383
********************************
 
