To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/20/96 01:38:46 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #373


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 20 November 1996    Volume 01 :
Number 373


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:49:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 442 Station Wagons?

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> Back in the mid-sixties, when 4-4-2's and Vista Cruisers were new,
> the long extinct Car Life magazine outfitted a VC as a 4-4-2 and
> then went out looking for people to pick on.  I don't believe I
> have that particular issue anymore tho, as friend Ron, Starfire
> addict, wanted it.  One could look it up though.  The car was
> called "Wonder Warthog" or some such nice name.      dj
>
>           Car and Driver did this with a 68 VC.  Added a 455 and
>           the rear stabilizer bar.  Called it Son of Boss Wagon
>           (Boss Wagon 1 was a 66 Fury wagon with a Hemi but no
>           handling mods).  Also, Road and Track tested a 70 VC to
>           which Olds had added a W-30 motor, W-25 hood, and FE2
>           suspension.  The woodgrain was deleted and the car painted
>           Rally Red with the W-30 stripes.
>           Joe Padavano  jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>           66 442, 68 W-30. 69 H/O, 70 W-30

Car and Driver magazine bought out Car Life magazine somewhere in that
time frame.  I cannot say you are correct or incorrect, but suspect
that you are right as to Car and Driver doing this.  However, Ron did
not get Car and Driver and when Car Life folded he was really bummed.
He kept the issues for years, finally giving them to me...except the
issue on the Wonder Warthog.
I should ask him to look it up.
dj

------------------------------

From: "KURT W MANNING" <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

well whats up over here is that for a practical joke my mail system
was forwarded so much mail that it quit filing.
the files have since been deleated but send out mail if anything else
goes screwy and the other guys up here at FSU will let me know.

Kurt
85 Cutlass :)
with a 231 Buick :(

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:10:46 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

Marc Westerlind wrote:
>
> Hi everyone...
>
> I am still kinda new here so I figured i would introduce myself - My
name is Marc Westerlind, I am from Douglas MA, I am 18 years old, Blah
blah blah, I work a > > Anyway the original 350 is getting a little
tired after 150K miles. I want to turn the car into a serious street
machine - only to be driven to friday night cr > > Here are my
questions: > > 1. Will a 455 bolt right in? I unserstand I might need
new motor mounts (the rubber ones) but I DO NOT want to have to do any
hacking of the frames motor mount > > 2. Will the TH350 bolt to it? I
was planning to get and olds 455 like a 1968-1970 model. > > 3. Would I
need any modifycations besides maybe new heavier duty springs? (I am
currently getting ready to rebuild the front end anyway) > > 4. The
TH350 probably wont last to long before it grenades right? The 350
currnetly has an estimated 360-380 flywheel HP and I would like the 455
to have high > > thanks a ton > > Marc Westerlind

I'm not sure what you need to do, but I do know that it will fit.  You
will need a race prept TH400 for high performance racing, along with
12 bolt posi, big rear tires, and lots of money.  Then you can race me!
	If you REALLY need a 455 block, I have one avalable in good
condition for under $200.  Not much 455 parts on it(ie heads, exhaust
manifolds, etc.) but the crank, and in intake and 4V quadrajet.  It
should run.  anyway  let me know if you need it.
	I'm 17 and I have a '70 442 with a 455, TH400 (wish it was a
4-speed), 12 bolt (not posi, but that's what I'm working on), and so
many rare options (except Hurst Dual Gate) that I can make Olds nuts
jealous.  Current additions include: PST polygraphite bushings, koni's,
posi, and a spare race preped motor to push the 4300 pound beast down
the quarter mile in 10 seconds. yea
	Any other questions you might have, let me know!
Brad
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:14:59 -0400
Subject: BUICK  455 VS OLDS 455

In this months issue of Car Craft, TA performance has come out
with some amazing high performance parts for the Buick 455.  I would
really like to use all of these parts on my Olds 455, but are the Buick
and the Olds blocks EXACTLY the same?
Thanks
Brad
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:19:01 -0400
Subject: GM 12 bolt posi

I am desperately looking for a new GM 12 posi unit and 3.24 or
3.49 ring and pinion gears.  Many people have told me that the GM 12
bolt for the Olds is different than the Chevy, but the same for the
Pontiac.  Therefore the posi units are no longer avalable.  If anyone
has one of these new or in good used condition, please let me know!
Thanks
Brad
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Weatherstrip Source?

You may try Steele Rubber Products at http://www.steelerubber.com/  They
 have gobs of the stuff and will send you their nifty monster catalog.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: BUICK 455 VS OLDS 455

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Brad Bowles wrote:
> In this months issue of Car Craft, TA performance has come out
> with some amazing high performance parts for the Buick 455.  I would
> really like to use all of these parts on my Olds 455, but are the
Buick > and the Olds blocks EXACTLY the same?

Well, they're not the same at all... completely different design. I
think you're probably out of luck on this one.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:32:09 -0400
Subject: Re: OK, Kurt, what is up over there in Michigan

Well, Kurt, you're off the Olds list as of the moment. I had to take you
off since when your mail system filled up it not only bounced everything
back to me, but to others on the list as well. I suspect your mail
system may be misconfigured since bounces should only come to me, not
the list.

You're welcome to resubscribe if the mail problems have been cleared up.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:26:54 -0400
Subject: Interchangable body parts

>          AMC actually built an engineering exercise in the 60s where
>          the front and back bumpers were the same, the right front
>          and left rear doors doors interchanged (as did the other
>          pair),the hood and trunk lid interchanged, and the front and
>          rear diagonally opposite fenders interchanged.

FWIW, VW Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Vicki Lee Peterson <gs02vlp@panther.Gsu.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:33:45 -0400
Subject: cutlass

I have a 1979 olds cutlass.  With a 403 and a th400 and i am looking for
a company that just sell olds parts.  Like heads, superchargers,
headers, high rise manifolds, and all that good stuff.  thanks

JEFF

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:40:10 -0400
Subject: Re: BUICK  455 VS OLDS 455

>In this months issue of Car Craft, TA performance has come out
>with some amazing high performance parts for the Buick 455.  I would
>really like to use all of these parts on my Olds 455, but are the Buick
 >and the Olds blocks EXACTLY the same? >Thanks >Brad >'70 442

They're not even kinda the same.  The bore is different as well as the
bore spacing(I think).  Dimensions, etc.etc. are completely different
too.  The fact that they are both 455 ci is the only similarity.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:31:16 -0400
Subject: Re: no longer a pig in the corners

>Some of the
>handling improvement probably came from the fact that the end links are
>tighter now, they were not tightened enough on the old bar.

Yes, this can make a big difference.  I just replaced the end links on
my front bar today with new ones that have polyurethane bushings.  The
old ones had worn out rubber bushings, and one wasn't tightened well.
Made a big difference, even without a rear bar! - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:38:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

>FWIW, VW Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF.

Sorry, no verb in that sentence.  It should have been INTERCHANGE...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:37:33 -0400
Subject: Hurst/Pontiac???

Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird (or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take some
time to get used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks _so_
much better. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:40:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

WMACHINES@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> If you have a 350 and want to change to a 400,425 or 455 you can
> use the 350 motor mounts, only drawback is the engine will set
> at least 1 inch higher than normal.  The other option is to use
> 400,425 or 455 frame mounts with the matching motor mounts
> and the engine will set normal.  You will not need to drill holes
> for the BB frame mounts.  They are direct bolt in.  As for the th350
> mount, the crossmember will stay the same unless you change to
> a th400.  With the th400 the rubber mount is different, so you will
> have to buy one and move the crossmember backwards to the second
> set of holes.  It is pretty easy to do.  The 350 mounts only pose a
> problem with hood to aircleaner clearance.  If you run a stock intake,
> no problem. If you use a torqer or Edlebrock Performer than you may
> have trouble


  When I was at the Olds/Mondello Nationals this summer I noticed that
alot of the Olds cars seemed to have their engines sitting abit higher
than stock.  Would this help for header clearance on the right "A" arm
and on the steering rod?  I had to beat the crap outta mine to make em
clear in these two spots.  Would using 350 motor mounts help me out?  I
have a 68 442 and a 67 442 and the headers hit on both cars in the same
spots.
- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:53:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

At 02:00 PM 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi everyone...
>
>I am still kinda new here so I figured i would introduce myself - My
name is Marc Westerlind, I am from Douglas MA, I am 18 years old, Blah
blah blah, I work at EMC in milford MA, and I have a bright orange 1970
cutlass supreme (black vinyl roof, interior, and stripes all "around"
the car....... > >Anyway the original 350 is getting a little tired
after 150K miles. I want to turn the car into a serious street machine -
only to be driven to friday night cruises and a few trips to the strip.
I really dont think a 350 is going to be to intimidating at all. My plan
was to buy a 455 block put it on an engine stand and build it up during
the winter or at least get the parts all together and have someone built
it and drop it in... > >Here are my questions: > >1. Will a 455 bolt
right in? I unserstand I might need new motor mounts (the rubber ones)
but I DO NOT want to have to do any hacking of the frames motor mounts
(the part of the frame where the rubber ones mount to) > >2. Will the
TH350 bolt to it? I was planning to get and olds 455 like a 1968-1970
model. > >3. Would I need any modifycations besides maybe new heavier
duty springs? (I am currently getting ready to rebuild the front end
anyway) > >4. The TH350 probably wont last to long before it grenades
right? The 350 currnetly has an estimated 360-380 flywheel HP and I
would like the 455 to have high performance parts (aluminum pistons a
280 degree cam etc.) > > >thanks a ton > >Marc Westerlind > > All
Oldsmobile engines from the 307 to the 455; and up to the 1984 model
year are wonderfully interchangable. Evenything that may need changing
motor mount wise is strictly bolt up.  (I do not have any personal
experience with a 403), but the rest; especially the 307/350/455 are, no
hacking required.

2. The only problem with a TH350 is that there is a Chevrolet flange, it
will not mate to any Oldsmobile engine.  GM is blessed with two flanges,
Chevy and the rest, Buick, Olds, Caddy and Pontiac.  There are some
TH350's that are drilled for both also.  Got an BOPC flange on that
TH350 and it will bolt right up.

3. Heavier suspension is a plus any time, the car will handle better,
support the heavier load better, and don't forget the rear either; as it
actually carries a heavier responsibility for power tranmission and
stability than the front end.  All the front end does is support the
engine until you turn!

4. If you're going over 400 actual hp you need to have a transmission
man that can properly trick it up for you.  Otherwise tranny life will
be short.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:02:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Junkyard Gold - ANY '68 PARTS????

> Question:
> Are you guy's looking for grey molded plastic-like pieces that go
around and > under the headlights and the signal lights or just the
square metal pieces > that are around the single bulbs?? I may be able
to look for these parts > around here,but I'm not sure which part youse
guys need. I think Craig needs > these parts as well,so ya'all let me
know...

The grey plastic pieces.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:05:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Marc Westerlind wrote:

> Hi everyone...
>
> I am still kinda new here so I figured i would introduce myself - My
name is Marc Westerlind, I am from Douglas MA, I am 18 years old, Blah
blah blah, I work at EMC in milford MA, and I have a bright orange 1970
cutlass supreme (black vinyl roof, interior, and stripes all "around"
the car....... > > Anyway the original 350 is getting a little tired
after 150K miles. I want to turn the car into a serious street machine -
only to be driven to friday night cruises and a few trips to the strip.
I really dont think a 350 is going to be to intimidating at all. My plan
was to buy a 455 block put it on an engine stand and build it up during
the winter or at least get the parts all together and have someone built
it and drop it in... > > Here are my questions: > > 1. Will a 455 bolt
right in? I unserstand I might need new motor mounts (the rubber ones)
but I DO NOT want to have to do any hacking of the frames motor mounts
(the part of the frame where the rubber ones mount to) > > 2. Will the
TH350 bolt to it? I was planning to get and olds 455 like a 1968-1970
model. > > 3. Would I need any modifycations besides maybe new heavier
duty springs? (I am currently getting ready to rebuild the front end
anyway) > > 4. The TH350 probably wont last to long before it grenades
right? The 350 currnetly has an estimated 360-380 flywheel HP and I
would like the 455 to have high performance parts (aluminum pistons a
280 degree cam etc.) > > > thanks a ton > > Marc Westerlind > > Hi
Marc,

Well, I must say we have a lot in common, I am also from Mass and I own
a "Burnt Orange" 71 Cutlass, and yes I though the 350 was a little bit
on the slow side so I installed a 455!!

1. 350 Motor mounts work, 455 will not!! The 455 used different frame
mounts so just buy new 350 motor mounts and your done.

2. The th350 will bolt up and yes it will grenade :o if not properly
built (I am on my 2nd, just got a th400 and driveshaft to install this
winter)

3. I am using my original springs w/ 88k on them and they hold the front
 end up ok, I would recomend new springs though.

Good luck with your project, I hope to have mine finsihed for the
spring!!

See you @ the track..:-)

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:52:23 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

At 21:24 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, >a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a regular
cutlass >bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this is a real
442 or a >cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if
you know. > >
  Greg,
         Why do you think it's 4-4-2?  Was it sold to you as one?
Without getting into the interior part, it should have the cutouts in
the rear bumper unless of cource it had been replaced for one reason or
another.  The best way to tell is by the VIN #.  Shoot the VIN out here
and that will tell the story.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:08:16 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

It doesn't sound like the real thing, but I could be wrong.

Katana72

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:16:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

I saw the car you are talking about. If I had the estimated $40,000 the
car is going to cost I would buy it now.  I think the LT4 will be the
engine of choice for the car.  They also are estimating high 12's for
the 1/4 mile in stock form...possibly the fastest production Hurst car?
Don't know but the LT4  should put out around 400hp.

At 09:37 PM 11/19/96 -0400, Dave Paulison wrote:
>Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
>magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird >(or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take
some time to get >used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks
_so_ much better. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4,
G92(3.23), QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a
4-3-1 W-30  in reality)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: '71 fender interchangability

Mitch,
The Vista fenders will fit your car. They are all the same.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:24:44 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

In a message dated 96-11-19 18:34:54 EST, you write:

<< I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed,
 a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a regular
cutlass
 bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this is a real 442 or a
 cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if you know.
  >>
Hi Greg, what you have is Cutlass S with the small block 4spd with the
442 option.  All small block cars came without notched bumper unless
specificly ordered.  The vin should be 3G87M for 350 4bbl dual exhaust
or 3G87K 350 4bbl single exhaust.  In 72 the 442 was a option for the
cutlass body whereas 68-71 it was actually a car starting with the vin
of 344.  I was wondering what are you going to do to the car,
cruise,sell, race or just have plain fun.  Where are located i.e. state,
city....

Your car is probably a 442, but look at the numbers on the fenders and
decklid and make sure they are straight and bolted on.  The trunk
numbers use pushpins.

If you have anymore questions e-mail or call me
313 336 8135  W MACHINES@AOL.COM

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
(2) 1972 442 W-30's

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

At 04:52 PM 11/19/96 -0500, you wrote:
>At 21:24 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, [snip] >         Why do you think it's 4-4-2?  Was it sold to you
as one?  Without >getting into the interior part, it should have the
cutouts in the rear >bumper unless of cource it had been replaced for
one reason or another.  The >best way to tell is by the VIN #.  Shoot
the VIN out here and that will tell >the story.

Since the 442 became an option, rather than a model, in '72, I don't
think you can tell by the VIN, unless it has the W-30 motor (the
infamous "X" in the VIN).

Though the 442 was available with the 350 that year, I think you're
missing some key elements. Probably just an "emblem" 442.

Must be fun with the 4-speed, though! Just enjoy it for what it is; a
V-8 4spd car. _______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept,
Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 03:06:55 -0400
Subject: New Baby

Hi all,

I've been lurking here in the background for a couple of months while I
went looking for a 72 Cutlass.

At last, success! I'm the terrified new owner of a 72 Cutlass S holiday
coupe with 11,500 original miles and bad window seals. The interior is
shot and the dash and cowl area need some metal work done. Rust has
definitely taken hold in the usual areas (trunk lid, floor panels,
etc.) but it can be stopped without major work.

The car is 100% complete and generally in good shape. It needs a lot of
TLC, but I think that it will make a good ride.

Joe Roberts

72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:27:03 -0400
Subject: Re: New Baby

At 02:06 AM 11/20/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been lurking here in the background for a couple of months while I
went >looking for a 72 Cutlass. >At last, success! I'm the terrified
new owner of a 72 Cutlass S holiday coupe >with 11,500 original miles
and bad window seals. The interior is shot and the >dash and cowl area
need some metal work done. Rust has definitely taken hold >in the usual
areas (trunk lid, floor panels, etc.) but it can be stopped >without
major work.

11,500 orig. miles? Has it been kept outside most its life, for all that
rust to occur?

>The car is 100% complete and generally in good shape. It needs a lot of
TLC, >but I think that it will make a good ride.

Sounds like an excellent project, Joe! Lotsa Luck (and $$$, but I won't
be sending any of that...).

I suppose the mechanicals are in good condition? Make sure _all_ the
fluids are fresh; I bought a 17,000 mile '60 Pontiac, and the brake
fluid was more like strawberry yogurt :(

What engine is in there?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Steven Bettis" <bettiss@empnet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:34:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Top Speed

Joe, both the naturally aspirated and the turbo car have the same final
gear ratio @ 3.89:1 in the manual trans cars. Aerodynamics is  marginaly
different with the Turbo having a better nose and side skirts. The rear
wings were the same.

Porsche list the Coefficient of Drag at .31 for the Turbo and .33 for
the non - turbo. The later cars all had the same nose which was what I
based my examples on. These cars are great fun if you ever get the
opportunity to drive one. (  But nothing like a V-8 Olds !!  )

Nice job on your collection of cars, I'm envious of some of your
vehicles!!

- ----------
> From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re[2]: Top Speed
> Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 6:51 AM
>
>
>  A good example is a Porsche 944.Remember this car has better
aerodynamics
> than any of our Oldsmobiles by far. A non turbo car can reach 130 MPH
with
> 150 HP (flywheel).
> A turbo car can reach 155 MPH but it requires an additional 80 HP!
>
>           Do both the Turbo and non-Turbo 944s have the same final
>           drive ratio?  If not, that would explain some of the
>           difference.  What about drag?  (Typically the Turbo would
>           have a wing or spoiler that the base car will not)  I'm
>           assuming that these are published numbers from real cars.
>
>           Joe Padavano
>           jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>           66 442
>           68 W-30
>           69 H/O
>           70 W-30
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Steven Bettis" <bettiss@empnet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:09:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Top Speed

I'm sorry , but wasn't this exactly my point?  If you will do some
simple arithmatic you will see that top speed does not increase at the
same rate as horsepower in my examples. My point was to show a real
world example on a production car. Too often people are misled by
textbooks and "experts" in magazine articles.

 I have always found it offensive that by taking the safe route in thier
tech articles, the so called "car magazines" rarely give out all the
facts in a real life situations. This misleads people on some of the
real hardships associated with building a performance vehicle with lofty
goals.

I also used these examples because I have owned ( do own )  both
versions of this particular car and know the figures to be true. I have
been researching  specialty shops in order to attain a goal of 175 MPH.
So although I do not have a 944 that currently does 175, I have found a
place that will make this possible. They have supplied me with the dyno
info to back up their claims along with documented test data. I'll let
you know if it is true in about 6 months.



- ----------
> From: C.R.F. <wizkid@inlink.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re:  Top Speed
> Date: Sunday, November 17, 1996 9:25 PM
>
> At 11:56 PM 11/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >Those of you that live for top speed  should also consider how much
of a > >resistance the air is at higher speeds. It definatly does not
get any > >easier as you strive to go faster. > > A good example is a
Porsche 944.Remember this car has better aerodynamics > >than any of our
Oldsmobiles by far. A non turbo car can reach 130 MPH with > >150 HP
(flywheel). > >A turbo car can reach 155 MPH but it requires an
additional 80 HP!  Not > >exactly fair is it! It gets worse, to reach
175 MPH,   the same car has to > >put out 400 flywheel HP.  ( Out of 150
Cubic inches, ouch ) > > > >Nice job on rounding up the formulas, Scott
!. > >> From: R Mullen <r_mullen@Merck.Com> > >> To: 'Olds Page'
<oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca> > >> Subject: > >> Date: Friday, November
15, 1996 11:23 AM > >> > The Snipe Sniped > > This is only thirty
years out of date.  My physics prof would probably sob. > There is a
Physics Law called the "Law of Diminishing Returns."  As I recall > if
you wish to double the speed, you must square the horsepower, ie, if a >
100 hp car will go 100 mph, and you want it to go 200, 2 squared is 4,
you > must supply four times the horsepower; everything else being
equal. > > One of you .edu guys, check with the Physics departments on
this.  It is > fuzzy hazzy, but does give some indication of why it
isn't as easy, to do, > as one might otherwise think, when one wants to
go fast. > > This concept is often best considered in large ships.  A
VLCC (very large > crude carrier) a big tanker man, might have a mere
25,000 hp diesel engine, > and cross the Atlantic in about two weeks.
The battleship Missouri has > 212,000 hp, yep, eight times as much, and
weighs less; and if hard pressed, > it could cross in under one week.
Landsend UK to NYC.  And the wagon would > probably burn 4 to 5 times as
much fuel.  (Strickly hap-hazzard, and > exagerated for clarity).  But
does indicate power the to speed consideration. > > Cliff Feiler > 1984
Olds Delta 88 w/455 > 1979 Olds Delta 88 w/Diesel > 1931 Olds Patrican
Sedan > 1931 Olds 4-door > 1930 Olds Viking Cabriolet project car > 1929
Olds Viking 4 door, part of project > > > >

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 01:42:34 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

In 1972 the 442 package was an option package rather than a separate
model, so all 442's from 1972 are dressed up Cutlasses.  Thus the 350
availability, as 1970-71's were 455's only.

David Wilk

------------------------------

From: mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu (Melissa Dawn Barberree)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 02:39:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Looking for Seatbelt ('70 442)

> How do the front shoulder belts attach/work?  I have a 70 Cutlass
conv. > that currently does not have front (or rear) shoulder belts and
would > like to add them. > > Joe Nall - joe@nall.com > >

Mine is a hardtop, so it has a lap belt and a shoulder belt (which is
bolted to the roof); thus, there are two female connections by the right
side of the driver's seat.  I'm not sure how the belts are attached in a
convertible.

Thanks for the info, for all who replied.

Luke

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:22:06 -0400
Subject: Re: BUICK  455 VS OLDS 455

In this months issue of Car Craft, TA performance has come out
with some amazing high performance parts for the Buick 455.  I would
really like to use all of these parts on my Olds 455, but are the Buick
and the Olds blocks EXACTLY the same?
Thanks
Brad
'70 442

     As may others will likely also tell you, the 455 Olds, Buick, and
     Pontiac are completely different engines with nothing in common
except
     the Delco distributor cap.  All three have different bore and
stroke
     combinations which all coincidentally yield about 455 cubic inches.

     All castings (block, heads, intake, crank) are different - really
     different - and not interchageable.  As an example, the Buick has
the
     distributor in the front, and the Olds and Pontiac have it in the
     rear.  Since all three share the same bellhousing bolt pattern and
     similar external dimensions, the entire engine assembly can be
     swapped, but individual parts are not compatible.  The Hot Rod
     Magazine Annual issue has a nice article on spotting different
     engines.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:12:45 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a regular
cutlass bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this is a real
442 or a cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if
you know.

     Unfortunately, in 1972 the 442 stopped being a separate model with
a
     unique VIN and instead became an option package available on any
2dr
     Cutlass or F-85.  The 350 4bbl single exhaust was the base engine
     available with the 442 package, although a 4 bbl dual exhaust 350
was
     also available, as were the 455 and the 455 W-30.  Each of these is

     indicated in the VIN (the first year that the VIN indicated the
engine
     size).  The 350 cars did not get the cutout back bumper.

     I actually owned a 72 442 configured exactly like the one you have.
I
     eventually added a W-25 hood (it was optionally available on all 72

     442s), headers, dual exhausts, and the cutout bumper.  I owned the
car
     from 1979 through 1981, driving the car from Boston to LA when I
     graduated from college and got a real job with Hughes Aircraft.  I
     finally got parted the car when it rusted out and replaced it with
my
     current 69 H/O.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:32:38 -0400
Subject: Test

Just a test.  I haven't rec'd any new mail from this list in over 16
hours...veeerrryy unusual.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:33:30 -0400
Subject: Money in - money out

Money spent - Delta 88 - cost $3,000 - $ in = $0.00 to date (3 yrs.
later)

   "         "     - Vista Cruiser - cost $800.00 - in $2,000.00 (1 yr.
later)




Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:33:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

At Pomona this weekend there was a '72 the guy had added the 4-4-2
emblems on to & redid the interior (buckets & console).  For 1972 there
were THREE wagons built with the W-31 code which was the 4-4-2
'treatment'.  There is gentlemen in tthe Southern California Olds Club
Chapter with one of the three & he knows where the other two reside.
If your interested in validating what you think might be one of those
cars - he'd be the guy to call - he's VERY knowledgeable.


A fellow VC fan & owner



Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:41:11 -0400
Subject: Re: GM 12 bolt posi - No i dont have one to sell but you might
want to read this...

> From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Tue Nov 19 19:24 EST 1996
> Date: 	Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:19:01 -0400
> From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: GM 12 bolt posi
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> I am desperately looking for a new GM 12 posi unit and 3.24 or
> 3.49 ring and pinion gears.  Many people have told me that the GM 12
> bolt for the Olds is different than the Chevy, but the same for the
> Pontiac.  Therefore the posi units are no longer avalable.  If anyone
> has one of these new or in good used condition, please let me know!
> Thanks
> Brad
> '70 442
>
>
The rear ends are definately different... I dont think olds. had a 12
bolt... weeelllll at least in 1970. I just bought a posi off of a 70
cutlass for $250. The cover was a 12 bolt but when I opened it up the
carrier was a 10 bolt with a 8.5"ring gear. I thought that it was pieced
together and that I was ripped off. I went to the local speed shop to
get a ring and pinion and found that it really is an original rear end
(only made from 68-70 I believe) and that it would cost well over $400
for either 3.40:1 or 3.90:1. It would cost about $475 for a set of
4.11's. This is all due to the pinion having 27 splines instead of 30
(like the chevy's). A set of 8.5" 30 spline ring and pinion gears will
run you about $150 so you will really have to watch out... if it seems
like a good buy for a ring and pinion for your olds it's probably the
wrong set...


Marc Westerlind
1970 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:58:31 -0400
Subject: GM Transmissions

>>I worked for General Motors' Hydramatic Division in 1978, and I know
>>for certain that the 200R4 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission
>>was not yet in production.
You are correct.  The 200-4R transmission went into production in 1981
at Three Rivers, MI.

>> 1978 (and 1979) A-body cars had either a
>>model 200 or 350 automatic transmission.
They also might have had a 250 transmission.  We built the 250 (in both
Chevy and BOP bolt patterns) at Parma starting in 1978 until 1984.  80%
common parts with the 350 but it used a band exclusively for 2nd gear.
Looks the same as 350 externally, but has a band adjustment screw on
right side of case by cooler fittings.  Built as a slightly lighter and
lower cost alternative to the 350.

>> As I recall, all of the THM-350 transmissions in that era were being
built by >>Buick in Flint, Michigan, and General Motors of Canada.
Close, but there were more plants than that.  Buick in Flint and GM of
Canada (Windsor) built BOP case 350's.  Toledo and Parma (my plant)
built Chevy 350's. Toledo converted in 1983 to 700-R4 production.
Windsor converted in 1983 to 125 (FWD) production.  Buick ceased
production in 1983 to make room for torque converter production.  Note
that Buick does build all torque converters for all GM transmissions
(except 180-C) since the early 80's. Parma was the last plant to build
350's (production ended 1987).

Current transmissions and plants:
3T40 (THM-125C)               FWD  Ypsilanti, MI
4T40-E                                  FWD  Windsor, Canada
4T60-E (orig. THM-440)     FWD  Warren, MI
4T65-E                                  FWD  Warren, MI
4T80-E                                  FWD  Ypsilanti, MI

3L30 (180-C)                       RWD  Strasbourg, France
4L30-E                                  RWD  Strasbourg, France
4L60-E (orig. 700-R4)        RWD  Toledo, Ohio
4L80-E (orig. THM-400C)  RWD  Ypsilanti, MI

Trivia:  What year did GM's Hydramatic division begin by making the
world's first fully automatic shifting transmission, what was the
division's name, and what brand vehicle did it go into?

Steve Ochs - Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission Division
(4T60/65-E) 1987 Olds 442 1976 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:10:08 -0400
Subject: Update:  442 Wagons

          OK, the memory is the second thing to go and I...er, what
          was I saying?

          I was not sure of all of the facts in my earlier post on 442
          wagons, so I dug out copies of the articles I quoted.  The
          Car and Driver Son of Boss Wagon was written up in the July
          1968 issue of that magazine.  The car was specially built by
          Olds with a 455 sporting W-30 heads and under-the-bumper ram
          air (essentially the 68 H/O drivetrain).  It also had the
          FE2 suspension, disc brakes, 3.42:1 rear end, Rally Pac, and
          H70-14 Polyglass tires on SSII rims.  The car ran the
          quarter in 14.7 at 94 mph.  Car and Driver added Koni shocks
          all around.  They were particularly impressed with the car's
          handling:  "Anybody who ever criticized American cars -
          particularly station wagons - should try this Oldsmobile.
          With its volumptuous bodywork, trick roof, enormous engine,
          it is purely American, but its behavior on the road is
          enough to make converts of us all."  By the way, Boss Wagon
          1 was 383 powered, not a Hemi.

          The March, 1970 issue of Road and Track had the article on
          the 70, which was a _Cutlass_ Cruiser, not a VC as I had
          noted previously.  This car, also specially built by Olds,
          came equipped with a W-30 455 and W-25 fiberglass hood, in
          addition to the suspension and wheel and tire upgrades (this
          car had G70 tires).  The rear end must not have been very
          steep, however, as R&T noted that the car only turned 2800
          rpm at 70 mph.  This may explain the 14.9 at 92 mph drag
          strip times.

          I actually obtained these articles from my copy of
          Brooklands Oldsmobile Muscle Cars 1964-1971, which contains
          reprints of a number of Olds-related magazine articles from
          that period.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:28:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

Lisa,
I'd be interested in more info on the '72 W31 station wagon. My shop
manual does not list a W31 option. I have a good friend here in Texas
who has a '72 Cutlass Cruiser (flat top) wagon that was built with the
442 chasis and a 455/400 engine and transmission. It was also painted
Corvette white at the factory. The car has two build sheets to verify
this. Oldsmobile was not very reliable on some production figures, and I
have never heard of three W31 wagons. I certainly wasn't there when the
cars were built, but this is a first for me.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:30:55 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

Hey Olds FAQmaster, this, along with parts from the thread on taillights
 would be a good and needed addition!

Just a suggestion,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Steve Ochs wrote:

> >>I worked for General Motors' Hydramatic Division in 1978, and I know
> >>for certain that the 200R4 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission
> >>was not yet in production.
> You are correct.  The 200-4R transmission went into production in 1981
at Three > Rivers, MI. > > >> 1978 (and 1979) A-body cars had either a >
>>model 200 or 350 automatic transmission. > They also might have had a
250 transmission.  We built the 250 (in both Chevy > and BOP bolt
patterns) at Parma starting in 1978 until 1984.  80% common parts > with
the 350 but it used a band exclusively for 2nd gear.  Looks the same as
350 > externally, but has a band adjustment screw on right side of case
by cooler > fittings.  Built as a slightly lighter and lower cost
alternative to the 350. > > >> As I recall, all of the THM-350
transmissions in that era were being built by > >>Buick in Flint,
Michigan, and General Motors of Canada. > Close, but there were more
plants than that.  Buick in Flint and GM of Canada > (Windsor) built BOP
case 350's.  Toledo and Parma (my plant) built Chevy 350's. > Toledo
converted in 1983 to 700-R4 production.  Windsor converted in 1983 to
125 > (FWD) production.  Buick ceased production in 1983 to make room
for torque > converter production.  Note that Buick does build all
torque converters for all > GM transmissions (except 180-C) since the
early 80's. Parma was the last plant > to build 350's (production ended
1987). > > Current transmissions and plants: > 3T40 (THM-125C)
FWD  Ypsilanti, MI > 4T40-E                                  FWD
Windsor, Canada > 4T60-E (orig. THM-440)     FWD  Warren, MI > 4T65-E
FWD  Warren, MI > 4T80-E                                  FWD
Ypsilanti, MI > > 3L30 (180-C)                       RWD  Strasbourg,
France > 4L30-E                                  RWD  Strasbourg, France >
4L60-E (orig. 700-R4)        RWD  Toledo, Ohio > 4L80-E (orig. THM-400C)
RWD  Ypsilanti, MI > > Trivia:  What year did GM's Hydramatic division
begin by making the world's > first fully automatic shifting
transmission, what was the division's name, and > what brand vehicle did
it go into? > > Steve Ochs - Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission
Division (4T60/65-E) > 1987 Olds 442 > 1976 Cutlass 'S' > > > >

------------------------------

From: Mark Odell <modell@isc.mds.lmco.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

Steve;

In your '87 442, I assume there is a 200R4.  Have you had trouble with
it? If so what did you end up doing?  I have an '86 442 and I have been
through three (3) 200R4 units, yes count them.   I finally gave up an
had a custom unit built in the old case (big time wife acceptance factor
problem).  Any comments on why the 200R4 is so weak?



>On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Steve Ochs wrote:
>
>> >>I worked for General Motors' Hydramatic Division in 1978, and I
know >> >>for certain that the 200R4 4-speed automatic overdrive
transmission >> >>was not yet in production. >> You are correct.  The
200-4R transmission went into production in 1981 >>at Three >> Rivers,
MI. >> >> >> 1978 (and 1979) A-body cars had either a >> >>model 200 or
350 automatic transmission. >> They also might have had a 250
transmission.  We built the 250 (in both >>Chevy >> and BOP bolt
patterns) at Parma starting in 1978 until 1984.  80% common >>parts >>
with the 350 but it used a band exclusively for 2nd gear.  Looks the
>>same as 350 >> externally, but has a band adjustment screw on right
side of case by cooler >> fittings.  Built as a slightly lighter and
lower cost alternative to the >>350. >> >> >> As I recall, all of the
THM-350 transmissions in that era were being >>built by >> >>Buick in
Flint, Michigan, and General Motors of Canada. >> Close, but there were
more plants than that.  Buick in Flint and GM of >>Canada >> (Windsor)
built BOP case 350's.  Toledo and Parma (my plant) built Chevy >>350's.
>> Toledo converted in 1983 to 700-R4 production.  Windsor converted in
>>1983 to 125 >> (FWD) production.  Buick ceased production in 1983 to
make room for torque >> converter production.  Note that Buick does
build all torque converters >>for all >> GM transmissions (except 180-C)
since the early 80's. Parma was the last >>plant >> to build 350's
(production ended 1987). >> >> Current transmissions and plants: >> 3T40
(THM-125C)               FWD  Ypsilanti, MI >> 4T40-E
FWD  Windsor, Canada >> 4T60-E (orig. THM-440)     FWD  Warren, MI >>
4T65-E                                  FWD  Warren, MI >> 4T80-E
FWD  Ypsilanti, MI >> >> 3L30 (180-C)                       RWD
Strasbourg, France >> 4L30-E                                  RWD
Strasbourg, France >> 4L60-E (orig. 700-R4)        RWD  Toledo, Ohio >>
4L80-E (orig. THM-400C)  RWD  Ypsilanti, MI >> >> Trivia:  What year did
GM's Hydramatic division begin by making the world's >> first fully
automatic shifting transmission, what was the division's >>name, and >>
what brand vehicle did it go into? >> >> Steve Ochs - Engineer - GM
Powertrain - Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) >> 1987 Olds 442 >> 1976
Cutlass 'S' >> >> >> >>



*******************************************************************
Mark A. Odell                               Voice:     703/264-6390
Mgr. Network Integration              Fax:       703/264-6061
Lockheed Martin                            E-Mail:
modell@isc.mds.lmco.com 10803 Parkridge Blvd. Reston, VA 22091

NOTICE ADDRESS and PHONE NUMBER  CHANGE EFFECTIVE  November 25, 1996
!!!!!!!

3201 Three Flint Hill		Voice:	     703/293-5526
Jermantown Road			Fax:	     703/293-5520
Fairfax, VA 22030
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:55:00 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

Gregory Shaver wrote:
>
> I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, > a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a
regular cutlass > bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this
is a real 442 or a
              ^^^^^^^^^^^
> cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if you know.

I was wondering about these exhaust notches.  I had my mufflers replaced
and my
tail pipes extend downward.  Should they have pointed straight out the
back inside
the notches?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:49:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

. . . I have a good friend here in Texas who has a '72 Cutlass
Cruiser (flat top) wagon that was built with the 442 chasis and a
455/400 engine and transmission. It was also painted Corvette white
at the factory. The car has two build sheets to verify this. . .

*****
Art,

Don't the station wagons have a longer wheelbase?  If that's the
case, I'd bet that your friend's wagon has the FE-2 suspension
option, which included the springs, shocks and sway bars which were
standard on the W-29, 442 option, rather than the complete 442
chassis.  I believe that the 455/400 were optional on any Cutlass,
including the wagons in 1972.  As for paint, I believe that one of
the normal Cutlass choices in 1972 was white and I'm not sure that a
Chevy white would be any different.  Possibly it was though and the
car really does have a special paint color on it.  Oldsmobile listed
special paint options for many years.  Does the car have any other
442 features, such as bucket seats, or the louvered hood?

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:50:56 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

I have noticed references to motor mounts in the latest emails.  When
I had my motor mounts replace, my mechanic told me that they were of
the type that had metal vulcanized? to the rubber.  Was this a correct
replacement on my 400 cid 68 442?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:52:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

>>          AMC actually built an engineering exercise in the 60s where
>>          the front and back bumpers were the same, the right front
>>          and left rear doors doors interchanged (as did the other
>>          pair),the hood and trunk lid interchanged, and the front and
 >>          rear diagonally opposite fenders interchanged. > >FWIW, VW
Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF.

Back in the '30's, I think it was (C.R.F. will probably jump all over
this one :-) some company built a car where even the four doors would
interchange, LR with RF and RR with LF, thus keeping costs down with
only needing two die sets instead of four. I'm thinking it might have
been the Chrysler Airflow...?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:03:26 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

I heard that some Th200's have plastic second gears... is it true?

marc westerlind
1970 cutlass supreme
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

>From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Wed Nov 20 09:59 EST 1996
Date: 	Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:00 -0400
X-Sender: modell@iscserver.isc.mds.lmco.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From: Mark Odell <modell@isc.mds.lmco.com>
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

Steve;

In your '87 442, I assume there is a 200R4.  Have you had trouble with
it? If so what did you end up doing?  I have an '86 442 and I have been
through three (3) 200R4 units, yes count them.   I finally gave up an
had a custom unit built in the old case (big time wife acceptance factor
problem).  Any comments on why the 200R4 is so weak?

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:11:07 -0400
Subject: 1972 W-31 Station Wagons?

          I thought the W-31 engine couldn't make the cut after 1970
          due to the government-mandated lower compression and use of
          low-lead fuels.  Are these documented W-31 wagons using that
          "W" designation to mean something else?  In the past, Olds
          has reused certain "W" designations, such as W-45 and W-46,
          which originally were used to designate the H/O, then used
          on the Rallye 350.

          I certainly don't doubt the possibility that a special build
          could have produced by the factory (witness the two
          factory-built wagons I've written about in other posts).  Up
          until the 70s, Detroit built quite a few documented
          "special" cars which were outside the configurations offered
          for sale to the general public.  Some of these were
          available through the normal dealer network, while others
          were built specifically to gauge press and public evaluation
          of potential new concepts.  Since the government emissions
          and safety requirements were obviously much more lax than
          they are now, even the cars not originally intended for sale
          to the public often ended up in the hands of private parties
          (often including prototypes).  Unfortunately, as the
          government requirements became more stringent, Detroit was
          not allowed to do this.  Many of these special "press
          evaluation" cars were later crushed or returned to stock if
          they did not comply with the law.  The proliferation of
          product liability lawyers has only made this worse.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:14:59 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

Mr Ada asks:
> I have noticed references to motor mounts in the latest emails.  When
> I had my motor mounts replace, my mechanic told me that they were of
> the type that had metal vulcanized? to the rubber.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^
This sounds... logical :)  Sorry, the bad pun just popped in me head!

>  Was this a correct replacement on my 400 cid 68 442?

Seriously, all the replacement motor mounts I've ever seen had the
rubber portion fused to the metal -- unsure if this is called
'vulcanization', which I always associated with the curing process of
the rubber itself, to make it tougher -- So, I'd assume this was the
correct replacement.

Did you get a chance to look at your old motor mounts?  If so, how did
the metal-to-rubber bond appear there?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:23:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

Somebody stated:
> >FWIW, VW Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF.

This may have been true for some of the earlier bugs (i.e., up
through '67), but I think the front fenders on my 68s were a tad
wider than the rears.

And on Superbeetles, I believe the front fenders had a raised portion
for the directionals.

And to keep this post at least kinda Olds-related... does anyone know
for sure whether or not Oldsmobile shared (or shares, FTM) its FWD
98/Regency platform with Cadillac for the DeVille line?  My '89
Fleetwood looks like it has a longer wheelbase, but that could be a mod
that Fleetwood makes; perhaps the DeVille line is shorter and equal to
the 98?



Tim (Who Wonders if Caddy'll Market a Cruella DeVille for the Upcoming
Disney Release This Christmas of 101 Dalmations) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:28:58 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> Mr Ada asks:
> > I have noticed references to motor mounts in the latest emails.
When > > I had my motor mounts replace, my mechanic told me that they
were of > > the type that had metal vulcanized? to the rubber. >
^^^^^^^^^^ > This sounds... logical :)  Sorry, the bad pun just popped
in me head!

I know live long and prosper. :-))

> >  Was this a correct replacement on my 400 cid 68 442?
>
> Seriously, all the replacement motor mounts I've ever seen had the
rubber > portion fused to the metal -- unsure if this is called
'vulcanization', > which I always associated with the curing process of
the rubber itself, > to make it tougher -- So, I'd assume this was the
correct replacement. > > Did you get a chance to look at your old motor
mounts?  If so, how did > the metal-to-rubber bond appear there?

Nope.  My mechanic informed me that if oil gets on these motor mounts,
then
the adhesion breaks down.  Aargh!  With all of the oil problems I had
recently
I worry about this.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:47:57 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

. . . I have a 68 442 and a 67 442 and the headers hit on both cars
in the same spots.
*****
Ken,

I hope that spot isn't at the brake proportioning valve, like it was
on my '68 442.  Everything was fine for me, until I hit a wet spot on
the road under hard acceleration one night.  The engine torqued over,
and the left header went right through the front brake line.  Of
course, I didn't discover that until I tried to stop at the next red
light . . .      Up until then, I had thought that accelerating was
the exciting part!

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:55:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird (or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take
some time to get used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks
_so_ much better.

*****
Dave,

I haven't seen any pictures yet, but do recall that Hurst has
modified some Pontiacs in the past.  The one which comes to mind was
the Grand Prix SSJ which I think was done in 1970.  I don't think
that that particular model was too well received though.  I think
that it was Motor Trend magazine which said that "SSJ" stood for
"super snow job".  I don't remember if it was the car which had
Hurst/Pontiac emblems, but I did see a car with some sort of H/P
emblem at a Cars and Concepts auto show, back in 1982 or 1983.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:21:01 -0400
Subject: Re[3]: Cutlass Taillights

Sounds like they are doing their best to brain wash the public into
thinking nothing older than 4 years should be allowed on the streets.

What I want to see are some joe average salary members on the California
Air Resources Board.  Their antics are recorded at
http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/homepage.htm

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -------------
          BTW, the California DMV would not let me get "69 HURST" as a
          license plate!  No, it was not already taken - they wouldn't
          even allow 1969 or any plate with 69 on it.  Virginia, on
          the other hand, is either much more tolerant, or doesn't
          know what it means.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:25:36 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

In a message dated 96-11-19 18:34:54 EST, you write:

<<  recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed,
 a regular hood (no ram air), Cutlass 'S' interior, and a regular
cutlass
 bumper(no exhaust notches).  I was wondering if this is a real 442 or a
 cutlass dressed up to look like a 442.  Please write back if you know.
  >>
In '72, the 442 was an appearance package on the Cutlass S. It included
some stripes, 442 badges and the heavy suspension, that was about it.
The OAI hood was a separate option, and the notched bumper only came
with the 455 motor. So yes, you could well have a real 442.

Jon Wessel

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:31:22 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '72 442

I had my mufflers replaced and my tail pipes extend downward.  Should
they have pointed straight out the back inside the notches?

Chris Sparks

          Yep.  You should have chrome trumpets (available repro from
          various sources) which come straight out the cutouts.
          Originally these were welded to the 442-unique tailpipes,
          which are no longer available as an assembly.  You will have
          to have the turned-down portion of your new tailpipes cut
          off and a straight section of pipe welded on to allow the
          trumpet to be installed.  The other piece of the puzzle is
          that the 442s (actually, all cars with the notched bumper)
          use a special rear tailpipe hangers which actually attach to
          the bumper bracket and correctly maintain the alignment of
          the trumpet in the notch.  I am not aware of a repro source
          of these, unfortunately, as most muffler shops just torch
          the old ones off prior to installing the new pipes.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:32:55 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: motor mounts

I have noticed references to motor mounts in the latest emails.  When
I had my motor mounts replace, my mechanic told me that they were of
the type that had metal vulcanized? to the rubber.  Was this a correct
replacement on my 400 cid 68 442?

Chris Sparks

          Yes, all the factory mounts are constructed this way.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:30:35 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

>Nope.  My mechanic informed me that if oil gets on these motor mounts,
>then the adhesion breaks down.  Aargh!

Well, yeah, but good grief, they're underneath an engine; of _course_
they're going to get oil on them sooner or later. I don't think oil is
going to accelerate their deterioration that much quicker than regular
fatigue will sooner or later.

Which reminds me of another point I was going to mention in the
discussion about how to calibrate the backup lights and neutral
interlock switch on the steering column when the shifter was actually on
the floor console. One problem I noticed with my '82 Cutlass with
console shifter was that as the car aged, the backup lights would only
come on with some jiggling of the shift lever: usually you'd have to go
down to Drive, then back up to Reverse to get the lights to come on.
Finally found when looking at the linkage from underneath that the
engine mounts had sagged, and with the engine and trans lower down it
had moved the shift linkage a bit. There was an adjustable slide/locknut
in the linkage underneath that allowed me to reposition the linkage
slightly, so that even though the engine and trans were a bit lower, the
steering column portion of the linkage would now be back where it used
to be, and the backup lights worked properly once again.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:49:40 -0400
Subject: Hurst Help

Hey Guys and Gals  --

I need a little help here.  I am trying to settle an argument.  I know
that Hurst built Olds cars in '68,'69, 72, 74, 75, 79 and 83-84.  I am
having a disagreement with a buddy about other Hurst cars. In 1970, he
said that they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.  I thought that they built a
Chrysler 300. I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69.

I am pretty knowlegeable with Oldsmobiles and building them, butI am
pretty rusty with the "other" cars that Hurst marketed.  I guess I
should buy the "Hurst Heratige" book!

Thanks for your help!

Tony


 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
\_\_


                                        Tony Waldner
tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us                Northeast Metro 916
                                         3300 Century Ave. N.
                                         White Bear Lake, MN
                                                       55110

 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_+++_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:42:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

     Yeah, I saw it.  Pretty neat looking.  Although I would much rather

     see the treatment given to an Olds, you can't blame Hurst since
Olds
     isn't producing any viable hot-rod platforms anymore, except maybe
the
     Aurora, but it's FWD so most hot-rodders won't touch it with a 10
foot
     pole.

     Also, they really didn't do a whole lot to that Pontiac that the
WS6
     package didn't already do.  A few appearance items, a
     yet-to-be-determined shifter, and a new ignition system.

     While I'm talking of FWD cars, there was a letter in the front of
the
     latest Camaro Craft magazine bashing FWD cars and saying that
they'll
     never replace RWD because the transaxle just can't be built strong
     enough to handle the torque of a V8 (much less a big block V8), and

     the torque steer of a V8 would be too much.  Anyone want to send
'em a
     picture of their 455 _big_block_ powered Toro and rub their noses
in
     it?

     Tom Lentz

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Hurst/Pontiac??? Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/19/96 5:47 PM


Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird (or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take
some time to get used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks
_so_ much better. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS dpauliso@gate.net



------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:48:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: '72 442

>> I had my mufflers replaced and my tail pipes extend downward. Should
>> they have pointed straight out the back inside the notches?
>
>          Yep.  You should have chrome trumpets (available repro from
>          various sources) which come straight out the cutouts.

I have a JPG photo of the back of Jeff Easton's '70 442, taken at our
Fuddrucker's get-together, which shows these fairly clearly. I could
email it to you if that would help.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 Station Wagons?

At 10:49 AM 11/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>. . . I have a good friend here in Texas who has a '72 Cutlass
>Cruiser (flat top) wagon that was built with the 442 chasis and a
>455/400 engine and transmission. It was also painted Corvette white
>at the factory. The car has two build sheets to verify this. . .
>
>*****
>Art,
>
>Don't the station wagons have a longer wheelbase?  If that's the
>case, I'd bet that your friend's wagon has the FE-2 suspension
>option, which included the springs, shocks and sway bars which were
>standard on the W-29, 442 option, rather than the complete 442
>chassis.  I believe that the 455/400 were optional on any Cutlass,
>including the wagons in 1972.  As for paint, I believe that one of
>the normal Cutlass choices in 1972 was white and I'm not sure that a
>Chevy white would be any different.  Possibly it was though and the
>car really does have a special paint color on it.  Oldsmobile listed
>special paint options for many years.  Does the car have any other
>442 features, such as bucket seats, or the louvered hood?
>
>Tom Stoner
>Ann Arbor, MI
>
If a customer had enough pull, in those days, he could get almost
anything copo'ed.  And a copo would not necesarily be known to the
dealers.  If Corvette white was not, in fact, also the same as an Olds
color, then it may have been a central office production option, and
done one off.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:02:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 1972 W-31 Station Wagons?

. . . In the past, Olds has reused certain "W" designations, such as
W-45 and W-46, which originally were used to designate the H/O, then
used on the Rallye 350. . .

*****
Joe,

Wasn't the 1970 Rallye 350's design originally intended to be a
Hurst/Olds?  Also, the W-25 option (which I believe was first used
for the 1970 - 1972 OAI hood) was again used for the 1974 and 1975
H/Os with the 350 engine, as I recall.  I think that maybe the W-33
and W-34 option codes had various uses too.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

At 09:58 AM 11/20/96 -0400, you wrote:


Snipped>>


>
>Trivia:  What year did GM's Hydramatic division begin by making the
world's >first fully automatic shifting transmission, what was the
division's name, and >what brand vehicle did it go into? > >Steve Ochs -
Engineer - GM Powertrain - Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) >1987 Olds
442 >1976 Cutlass 'S' >

Steve,

Because of your wording "first fully automatic shifting transmission" I
am afraid that I must be a little skeptical about my answer, but it is
argueably as follows:

Late (ready for the next years new model) in 1937 GM started advertising
the Automatic Safety transmission.  Which means that they were probably
in series sproduction by then, late 1937, and would appear as an option
in 1938 Oldsmobiles, which of course makes them 1938 models.

If the wording of your question was to indicate a different version A/T
than that used in the 1938 Olds, which is certainly possible, I cannot
answer at this time.  Also I found this to be an excellent trivia
question.  There is always the posibility of an earlier  experimental
unit, or later produciton variant that was actually fully automatic!
The '38 Olds unit was the first advertised as such.  I have never had
the opportunity to drive a '38 A/T, and would probably put one of these
cars on my buy one some day, want list; and would like to acquire one
for my collection.

The earliest A/T type that I can rememer was a sort of self shifter that
one of my uncles had in a '39, '40 or '41 Desoto.  It was not truly an
automatic as it had a clutch.  The earliest true A/T of my recolection
was my father's '49 Buick with a dynaflow.  My mother had a '54 Chevy
with a powerglide too. But I was only 11 when she bought it, so I didn't
drive for a few years yet.

Great question, though, now find a hard one!

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 w/455
1979 Olds Delta 88 w/diesel
1931 Olds Patrician Sedanb
1931 Olds 4-door
1930 Viking Cabriolet
1929 Viking 4-door

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

At 04:42 AM 11/20/96 -0400, Tom Lentz wrote:

>     Also, they really didn't do a whole lot to that Pontiac that the
WS6 >     package didn't already do.  A few appearance items, a >
yet-to-be-determined shifter, and a new ignition system.

Yea I just got the article out and Hurst really isn't doing much besides
cosmetic mods. The biggest mod is the engine. It is the Lingenfelter
383. They specialize in building up LT1,LT4 and ZR1 engines. The info I
have from them rates the 383 at 440hp.  It would benice to see Hurst
back with Olds but like you said you can't blame them for going with
Pontiac. I have this feeling that if Olds ever brings back the 442 in
V-8 form it will be with the LT1, LT4 or the new for 98 LS1 (327) and
the Aurora V-8 will stay in the luxury end...just my $.02 - - - - - - -
- - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23),
QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30
in reality)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:09:23 -0400
Subject: Damn power loss problems again

Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.  I let off
of the gas it came back.  I tried playing a little with the pedal,
down/release ..., and I still had this wierd power loss.  The car
seems to be either not getting enough gas (shouldn't since I had
fuel pump replace) or the tranny is failing (shouldn't since I had it
serviced, bands tightened, down shift switch replaced).  What in the
world is going on?

Anyone experience such an annoyance?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:12:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

At 10:52 AM 11/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>>          AMC actually built an engineering exercise in the 60s where
 >>>          the front and back bumpers were the same, the right front
 >>>          and left rear doors doors interchanged (as did the other
>>>          pair),the hood and trunk lid interchanged, and the front
and >>>          rear diagonally opposite fenders interchanged. >>
>>FWIW, VW Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF. > >Back in the
'30's, I think it was (C.R.F. will probably jump all over >this one :-)
some company built a car where even the four doors would >interchange,
LR with RF and RR with LF, thus keeping costs down with >only needing
two die sets instead of four. I'm thinking it might have >been the
Chrysler Airflow...? > >Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc. >101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet:
acg@dlogics.com >Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282 > >
Come on Andy,

Jump on you, never, I'd squash you.

I have a Chrysler Airflow, a 1936 C10 Imperial, and the four doors will
not interchange.  I bought this car to hot rod, and am now having 2nd
thoughts. Pressure from the restoration guys.  But so much is missing
under the hood and trim wise.

And you're getting away from GM, much less Oldsmobile; bad joss.

Anyway, I think that some of the late '30s Willy's  77's may have had
interchangeable doors ft to rear.  Oh, yes, the car that I believe you
are thinking about was the '41 Hupmobile Skylark.  It looks like it had
such doors, and fenders too.  It started life as something else though,
maybe the '37 Cord.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:19:16 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Hurst/Pontiac???

I think I laughed to the same effect when I read that letter.  And the
words "Ok, but just don't tell any '66 to '72 Olds Toronado owners about
 that", all the while picturing clouds of white smoke rolling off the
front end of a Toro letting those 500 ft/lbs of torque loose.

Someone should enter their Toro into their burn out contests.  Although
it is pretty sad what these people are doing to their cars to win the
chance to get a photograph of their car's destruction in CC.  Here it
comes; there is a use for Chevys after all.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ---------
     While I'm talking of FWD cars, there was a letter in the front of
the
     latest Camaro Craft magazine bashing FWD cars and saying that
they'll
     never replace RWD because the transaxle just can't be built strong
     enough to handle the torque of a V8 (much less a big block V8), and

     the torque steer of a V8 would be too much.  Anyone want to send
'em a
     picture of their 455 _big_block_ powered Toro and rub their noses
in
     it?

     Tom Lentz

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:20:41 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 442 Station Wagons?

You mean all the Covettes where painted 442 white at the factory :)!!
Uh oh.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
It was also painted Corvette white at the factory.

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:29:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Automobiles

I need a little help here.  I am trying to settle an argument.  I
know that Hurst built Olds cars in '68,'69, 72, 74, 75, 79 and 83-84.
I am having a disagreement with a buddy about other Hurst cars. In
1970, he said that they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.  I thought that
they built a Chrysler 300. I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler
in '69.

*****
Tony,

I believe that all the above are correct.  Including the Grand Prix
SSJ, Chrysler 300-H, and the SC/Rambler.  You're right though - you
should get youself a copy of The Hurst Heritage.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:32:24 -0400
Subject: Rubber Motor Mounts

This thread has been running for the last few days, and I though I would
now toss in my 1.5=A2 worth.=20

I do not ever remember seeing a motor mount in any GM product, in the
1960-1984 period that was not steel brackets vulcanized (yes, I believe
vulcanized is the correct term here.  Vulcanizing is in fact the
essential cure of the rubber, and under vulcanization the various parts
are in effect glued together) into a bracket.  I doubt that they used
rubber however, as it might last a minute and a half in this
application.=20

More likely the product is neoprene (artifical rubber and oil
resistant). It will eventually disintegrate due to use, oil may speed up
the process, especially of the adhesion of the rubber to the metal; but
they do last for quite a while, and are generally satisfactory.

It is for all practical purposes oil resistant, and will eventually
require replacement.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:36:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.  I let off
of the gas it came back.  I tried playing a little with the pedal,
down/release ..., and I still had this wierd power loss.  The car
seems to be either not getting enough gas (shouldn't since I had
fuel pump replace) or the tranny is failing (shouldn't since I had
it serviced, bands tightened, down shift switch replaced).  What in
the world is going on?

Anyone experience such an annoyance?

*****
All right Chris, I'll ask the obvious.  Have you changed your fuel
filter lately?

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: Allen_R_MONROE@umail.umd.edu (am39)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:38:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

>Hey Guys and Gals  --
>
>I need a little help here.  I am trying to settle an argument.  I know
that >Hurst built Olds cars in '68,'69, 72, 74, 75, 79 and 83-84.  I am
having a >disagreement with a buddy about other Hurst cars. In 1970, he
said that >they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.  I thought that they built a
Chrysler 300. >I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69. > >I am
pretty knowlegeable with Oldsmobiles and building them, butI am pretty
>rusty with the "other" cars that Hurst marketed.  I guess I should buy
the >"Hurst Heratige" book! > >Thanks for your help! > >Tony > > >
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\
_\_ > > >                                        Tony Waldner
>tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us                Northeast Metro 916 >
3300 Century Ave. N. >                                         White
Bear Lake, MN >
55110 > >
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_+++_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_
/_/ > > > > Yes I believe that your buddy is correct. There was also a
73 H/O, first year for white or black body color. >

Allen R. MONROE
Email:am39@umail.umd.edu

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:32:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Sounds like your running a little rich... is the air cleaner real dirty?

marc westerlind
1970 cutlass supreme

> From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Wed Nov 20 12:15 EST 1996
> Date: 	Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:09:23 -0400
> From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: oldslist <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Damn power loss problems again
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
> noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.  I let off
> of the gas it came back.  I tried playing a little with the pedal,
> down/release ..., and I still had this wierd power loss.  The car
> seems to be either not getting enough gas (shouldn't since I had
> fuel pump replace) or the tranny is failing (shouldn't since I had it
> serviced, bands tightened, down shift switch replaced).  What in the
> world is going on?
>
> Anyone experience such an annoyance?
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:31:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

>Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
>noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.  I let off
>of the gas it came back.  I tried playing a little with the pedal,
>down/release ..., and I still had this wierd power loss.  The car
>seems to be either not getting enough gas (shouldn't since I had
>fuel pump replace)

Well, the fuel pump may be supplying plenty of gas, but if the carb
is mixing it all wrong, you'll get this problem. Maybe the choke is
going off too soon?

>or the tranny is failing (shouldn't since I had it
>serviced, bands tightened, down shift switch replaced).

If the RPMs go _up_ but nothing else happens, there might be a
problem there, but I think the more likely problem is a lean
mixture that's starving the engine when the butterflies open,
and if anything I'd expect RPMs to go down when this occurs.
Is the timing set up properly? No vacuum leaks?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:42:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 hood

Hi all,

I was just comtemplating an idea.  On my 68 442's hood I have the raised
center portion which leads to a ventilation grille.  Could someone
install some kind of air scoop in its place?

Just wonder'in.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:36:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>  While I'm talking of FWD cars, there was a letter in the front of the
>  latest Camaro Craft magazine bashing FWD cars and saying that they'll
>  never replace RWD because the transaxle just can't be built strong
>  enough to handle the torque of a V8 (much less a big block V8)...

Uh-oh.  I'd better tell the Toro that she can't burn rubber
anymore.  She's not gonna like that after 30 years.

> ...and the torque steer of a V8 would be too much.

And I always though she just was trying to pull into gas stations.

> Anyone want to send 'em a picture of their 455 _big_block_ powered
Toro > and rub their noses in it?

Those that have eyes, let him see.
Those that have ears, let him hear.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:45:35 -0400
Subject: RE: Hurst Help

> In 1970, he said that they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.

In 1970 and 1971, Hurst worked with Pontiac on a special
gold and white GP with a huge electric sunroof.  The 1970 model is
quite rare, but I have seen a 71's a couple of times in the past.

Rich Bonazzoli

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Marc Westerlind wrote:
>
> Sounds like your running a little rich... is the air cleaner real
dirty?

I don't know but will definitely check it out.  I have been running
the car with the air filter lid inverted, ya know to get more air into
the carb.  It probably is dirty. :-(


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:55:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Thomas Stoner wrote:

> All right Chris, I'll ask the obvious.  Have you changed your fuel
> filter lately?

Now remember I am not mechanically inclined :-)  I don't believe that
I have.  BTW where is it?  When I had my carburator (sp?) rebuilt would
that have been replaced?  I had the fuel pump done.  Would the filter
had been replaced then?

I'll look into it.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:56:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

i have the same problem when trying to open it up on the highway....i
step on the gas nothing and after a couple of seconds the car jumps and
begins to accelerate...what could this b'85 Delta88.......

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:00:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

Tony asks:

<snip>

> I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69.


You are referring, I believe, to the SC/Rambler.  A co-worker of mine
years ago was into these (go figure :) ).  Yup, as I recall, these
were a Hurst production... a very limited production.



Tim (Liked My Dad's '61 Rambler, But That's About It) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:03:01 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Transmissions

> Late (ready for the next years new model) in 1937 GM started
advertising the > Automatic Safety transmission.  Which means that they
were probably in > series sproduction by then, late 1937, and would
appear as an option in 1938 > Oldsmobiles, which of course makes them
1938 models.

I think this was also called the "traffic transmission", and was offered
for some Olds and Buick cars in '37 and '38.  This wasn't a fully
automatic unit since there was no valve body.

> always the posibility of an earlier  experimental unit, or later
produciton

As far as experimental units go, Cadillac had a step-up ratio gearbox
that would upshift automatically under full torque in 1934.

I believe the first fully automatic transmission, Hydra-Matic, was
offered in 1940 by Oldsmobile.  Cadillac received it in 1941.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:05:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> Well, the fuel pump may be supplying plenty of gas, but if the carb
> is mixing it all wrong, you'll get this problem. Maybe the choke is
> going off too soon?

Well the problem occured after 25 minutes of driving.

> If the RPMs go _up_ but nothing else happens, there might be a
> problem there, but I think the more likely problem is a lean
> mixture that's starving the engine when the butterflies open,
> and if anything I'd expect RPMs to go down when this occurs.

Well I don't really remember if the RPMs went up or down.

> Is the timing set up properly? No vacuum leaks?

Well this is a probable area as well.  I am currently waiting on
a coffee canister vacuum unit.  Currently I have the smaller hose
fit inside the larger hose.  Please don't flame me since the mechanic
did this.

The timing I currently have has been adjusted so that I am running a
little slower.  This was due to the pinging problem I couldn't stand.
It really didn't help the pinging since I have since realized that gas
is not as good as it used to be.  Maybe I should have my mechanic reset
it to what it supposed to be.  Heck when I first got the car I would
barely hit the pedal and would burn rubber.  Now that I have driven
the car and am used to it this should be a problem for me :-)  Does
anyone know what the proper settings is off the top of their head?
If not I'll check the olds faq.

Thanks to all who responded


Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:03:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

Tom quotes Camaro Crap, err, Craft Magazine:

>      While I'm talking of FWD cars, there was a letter in the front of
the >      latest Camaro Craft magazine bashing FWD cars and saying
that they'll >      never replace RWD because the transaxle just can't
be built strong >      enough to handle the torque of a V8 (much less a
big block V8), and >      the torque steer of a V8 would be too much.
Anyone want to send 'em a >      picture of their 455 _big_block_
powered Toro and rub their noses in

Not to mention the current line-up of Northstar V8 powered Cadillacs,
all FWD.  In the 300 - 325 HP Net range... nuthin' to sneeze at.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:03:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

so ya think a dirty air cleaner could cause problems with acceleration

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:59:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

>i have the same problem when trying to open it up on the highway....i
step >on the gas nothing and after a couple of seconds the car jumps
and begins >to accelerate...what could this b'85 Delta88.......

In this case I'd say a bad accelerator pump, failing to give the engine
the initial squirt of gas needed, so you don't get proper acceleration
until the fuel flow can catch up to the new air volume. Had the carb
rebuilt recently? (Gee, I hope we're talking carburetors here! :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:13:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

Sometimes my car - when I am going down the highway at around 60mph and
I floor it the car will not downshift due to the speed so the engine
kinda gets loaded up and bogs and then takes off again when I let off
and "get on it" again... It doesnt happen alot but I am a neat freak
when it comes to the way my car runs. I havent had a chance to get any
jets for it (its and edelbrock) so I have been tuning the idle mixture
screws to try and make up for them (primitave but it works pretty good -
not great though) Oh and I run my car about 10 degrees BTDC and I use 94
octane gas usually with octane booster to fight the pinging....


Marc Westerlind
1970 cutlass supreme

> From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Wed Nov 20 13:00 EST 1996
> Date: 	Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:58:31 -0400
> From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Marc Westerlind wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like your running a little rich... is the air cleaner real
dirty? > > I don't know but will definitely check it out.  I have been
running > the car with the air filter lid inverted, ya know to get more
air into > the carb.  It probably is dirty. :-( > > > Chris Sparks > >


------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:50:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

how would i know that the carb is bad are there any tests i can do....

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:55:01 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Damn power loss problems again

I would expect a carb rebuild to include a new filter.  Most likely that
 was done.  However, $3 is worth spending.  If any new line was put in
recently, I would change it.  A clogged filter will also make the car
buck at acceleration or trying to maintain high speed up a hill.

Check out some solutions to pinging in the FAQ.

Could be accelerator pump bad, ignition problem, TV cable adjustment,
trans vacuum modulator, I'm sure there are others.  Sorry, but you need
to eliminate each.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ---------
(1) Now remember I am not mechanically inclined :-)  I don't believe
that I have.  BTW where is it?  When I had my carburator (sp?) rebuilt
would that have been replaced?  I had the fuel pump done.  Would the
filter had been replaced then?

(2) The timing I currently have has been adjusted so that I am running a
little slower.  This was due to the pinging problem I couldn't stand.

(3) Sometimes my car - when I am going down the highway at around 60mph
and I floor it the car will not downshift due to the speed so the
engine kinda gets loaded up and bogs and then takes off again when I let
off and "get on it" again...

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:05:09 -0400
Subject: Exhaust pipes and trumpets for 4-4-2s

The last time I checked (last year), NAPA had the correct tail pipes and
trumpets available. Their exhaust catalog also lists the correct
replacement hangers. I have their tailpipes, chrome trumpets, and
hangers on my 70 4-4-2. They are dead ringers for the originals which I
removed, just in better shape. The trumpets I have are 12 years old now
and they still look good. BTW, I used clamps to hold the trumpets onto
the pipes so I did not have to weld them and screw up the chrome. I
pointed the threaded part of the clamps toward the trunk floor so they
woud not show. A little unhandy to tighten up, but worth it. I do not
know if NAPA Auto Parts is nationwide or not. They do sponsor a NASCAR
truck so I guess they are.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:12:14 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> Well, yeah, but good grief, they're underneath an engine; of _course_
> they're going to get oil on them sooner or later. I don't think oil is
> going to accelerate their deterioration that much quicker than regular
> fatigue will sooner or later.

Hopefully later than sooner, cause when my mounts go, they're gonna take
 the hood with them probably!   :-(

At least I've got an extra on the '81 even if it is dented a little.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (thinking that clearance REALLY IS important) Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 67k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles) (BOTH motor mounts
broken)

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:16:28 -0400
Subject: bumper sticker

I just picked up 3 bumper stickers from a free display.  I thought of my
 Mercury (the bomb) when I saw them.  If anybody with a V.C. or some
other oversized luxo-barge such as a 88, 98, etc, wants one, I'd be
glad to mail them one.  It says "My other Car is a" and then has a
picture of a tank. It does say National Guard on it below the tank,
but maybe I can paint over that part.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: RE: A funny thing happened to me at our Olds chapter meeting...

In response to Charley Buehner, and another member (I think it was
Chris) who asked why I sold my '69 4-4-2:

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I've been involved in moving a center,
and building a LAN for nearly 100 users at a new location for the past
week, and have barely had time to do much of anything besides that.
Anyway, Charley is right.  I've probably gone over it in my head a
thousand times (or more) as to why I sold the '69 4-4-2.  It was the
finest automobile I have ever owned.  I sold it for three reasons: 1) I
had chosen to return to college and needed the money to pay for it. 2) I
had had my fun with it, and I thought I was at a point in my life that I
should grow up and do the responsible and adult thing and sell it, then
move on with my life (HA!  Boy was I dumb!) 3) I used to race that car
all the time and do some pretty crazy things in it and I had been quite
lucky with lack of accidents (it was dangerously fast!).  I figured I
was lucky nothing severe had happened to me up to that point, and
thought I had better get rid of it before something did.

8 years have gone by since I sold it, and it is probably the only
serious regret I still have in my life.  I really enjoy the two
Cutlasses I have, but they could never stand up to the admiration I had
for that 4-4-2.  I'm sure a lot of you out there know exactly the way I
feel.

Thanks for asking.  : )

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #373
********************************
 
