To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/12/96 11:56:01 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #365


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 13 November 1996    Volume 01 :
Number 365


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:51:41 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

>Does anyone know why the Olds Cutlass was called gutless.  Just want
>to know.

I'd say it started when the emissions stuff started getting piled on,
and GM started putting Diesels and V6s in some. I'll go out on a limb
and suggest that part of the problem was the car's own success, in
that they had a lot of fleet sales, building mass quantities of rather
under-powered, non-sporty Cutlasses which were later dumped on the
market and are still running around to this day. Just my $.02...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:10:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting The Pace

> From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:52:33 -0400
> Subject: Re: Setting the Pace
>
> Does anyone think that if I joined OCA, would I receive the book
> anyway.  Just a question.
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442


Chris (and all non-OCA members),

My guess is no better than yours, but I am guessing no.  The letter that
came with the book mentioned that they printed enough for all OCA
members, plus about 10,000 extra copies to sell.  Since they already
worked out the numbers, I don't think they have large numbers to give
away to people that are just joining.  It might be the case that the
10,000 they plan to sell will cover the costs of the 30,000(?) they are
giving away. Anyway, I could be wrong.

The real reason I'm replying is to encourage you to join OCA.  What is
keeping you from joining?  Whether you get the book or not, I think
you'll appreciate the monthly newsletter (Journey With Olds).  It's more
than a letter, but less than a magazine.  You own a shining example of
why the club exists.  Join the club! - --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew
Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/_____________________________________________
_____

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:13:53 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

> Hey all,
>
> Does anyone know why the Olds Cutlass was called gutless.  Just want
> to know.
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Prolly coined by the owner of one of those 6 cylinder Cutlasses from the
60s... or more likely it's just propoganda from Ch*vy owners trying to
justify their purchase :)

On a related car nickname note:

I remember back in the mid 70s, in H.S., some kid thought he was King
Sh*t because his dad got him a new Mustang Cobra II... it was fun waxing
his tail with my 4 door Pontiac Catalina.  I'm sure the H.O. 400 I had
had nuthin' to do w/it :)

Anyways, whenever we saw this kid -- who was an obnoxious jerk anyways
-- we'd say

"Mustang II - Performance, Zero" :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:14:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Convert solid roof to T-top???

I've got another question for you all.  I've mentioned before I have
an '85 Salon that I'm getting ready to re-build.  It's a Michigan car
so the doors, trunk floor, etc are rusted out, and the frame is bent
on the left side behind the rear wheel from being rear ended.

          Answers to the name of "Lucky"...

          The original Hurst Hatch of 1975 could certainly be
          installed in any 2 dr Cutlass of that vintage (in fact, I
          think they were _all_ installed after the fact).  While I
          can't speak from firsthand knowledge on the G-body cars, I'd
          be willing to bet that you could retrofit your T-tops to a
          non-"Teed" car.  It's got to be easier and much less
          expensive than the work you've got ahead of you on your
          current plan.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:36:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Body identification

Ok gang,

     I keep seeing references to A, G, what bodies.  What in the heck
does this mean?  All I know is that my 68 442 is an "A" body car.
So what.  What does that mean?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: mrw@mil.emc.com (Marc Westerlind)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:33:50 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

I think it might have had to do with an old war-plane nicknamed
"cutlass"... because they were slow and underpowered they were nicknamed
gutless... (not that I am a genius or anything - I just happened to see
a show on them the other day)


Marc Westerlind
1970 Cutlass Supreme

> From oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Tue Nov 12 14:51 EST 1996
> Date: 	Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:49:11 -0400
> From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Hey all,
>
> Does anyone know why the Olds Cutlass was called gutless.  Just want
> to know.
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:26:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Convert solid roof to T-top???

>I've got another question for you all.  I've mentioned before I have
>an '85 Salon that I'm getting ready to re-build.  It's a Michigan car
>so the doors, trunk floor, etc are rusted out, and the frame is bent
>on the left side behind the rear wheel from being rear ended.
>
>          Answers to the name of "Lucky"...

Hawhawhaw... *chuckle*  *snort*  :-)

>It's got to be easier and much less
>          expensive than the work you've got ahead of you on your
>          current plan.

Well, yeah, I think I was a little too pessimistic before. Thinking
about it, Dad's old '78 '88 got a brand new roof when the garage
collapsed on it in its first winter: they simply snipped the old
one off at the corners. That was a 4-door with big fat B pillars,
too; a coupe may be easier to work with...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 70 442 W-30 VIN

Building up a plain jane Cutlass to W-30 is one thing, but also watch
out for real W-30s where someone has taken a few rare and valuable
parts off the W-30, and replacing them with non W-30 parts, or
reproductions.

Score another for the FAQ!  Soon in HTML at a site near you!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------------
Thanks Joe

I did find the same info about the X in the Olds FAQ (great resource). I
think you are correct, it would cost to much to buy all the parts and
build a W-30. So I think the car must be a real W-30. All the right
parts are there, but I didn't have time to check all the numbers. I will
do a little more checking. <snip> Bobby

70 442
92 Seville
88 Seville
<snip>

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

I believe that the Olds Cutlass was called Gutless because of the 231
v-6 that they came standard with from the mid 70's to mid to late
80's.  Any arguers?

Joe Barker
84 CUTLASS CALAIS SUPREME

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:33:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Dieselmania

> > I think you've missed a Cutlass V8, don't forget the forgettable,
'81's > >  still had a diesel!

    What about the V6 diesel?   I remember seeing one of these mentioned
 in a service manual, but I've never seen one to day.   I belive it was
a V6 *OLDS* too....

    Too bad GM's V6 wasn't a Olds 350 with 2 cylinders cut out.  ;^)

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:35:25 -0400
Subject: Borla/Stealth Aurora

Hi all-

did anybody see the Dec. Motor Trend yet?  It's got a sweet NITROUS
equipped Aurora, complete with Borla exhaust.  Definitely awesome!

____________________________
Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

1984 Olds Cutlass Calais
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:38:25 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: olds vs. chevy

I believe that the Olds Cutlass was called Gutless because of the 231
v-6 that they came standard with from the mid 70's to mid to late
80's.  Any arguers?

          Yes.  The term is a natural and has probably been around
          since the 1961 introduction of the Cutlass.  Certainly my
          Ford and Chevy-owning "friends" used that term on my in high
          school, long before the 231-powered cars.  'Course, my
          425-engined 68 Vista Cruiser made believers out of them.

          In reality, it was probably coined by the same jokers who've
          brought us the Found On Road Dead and 5.slow witticisms.
          Though, I did like the suggested tie to the old Cutlass Navy
          plane.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          48 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 06:52:35 -0400
Subject: Re: members registry

Hi Clayton,
	I like what I see so far. This registry was a real good idea. Just a
few questions. If I want to edit my entry, what do I do? I have a small
suggestion that may helps us all read the registry in a more helpfull
way, given that fact that many of us are always asked, "what type/year
is your car?", I think it would be a good idea to catalogue the registry
by year and type along with location. It would be very helpful if we
need to contact a commonly selected group of olds owners if the need
arises. What do you think?

Fernando
'72 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:57:50 -0400
Subject: RE: spread to square bore adapter performance improvements

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This is the kind of post I hope to see more of. Good thinking Doug

- ----------
From: 	Doug Ahern[SMTP:doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 12, 1996 10:52 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	spread to square bore adapter performance improvements

I did this on my small block mopar, but I feel the same results would
be had in the case of an Oldsmobile.

If you are using a squarebore to spreadbore adapter on a dual plane
intake,  here's a cheap mod that may buy you some low end power
and response:

I'm using a transdapt square-to-spread bore adapter to mate my Carter
AFB to my 71 340 spreadbore dual plane intake manifold.  One of the
problems with my adapter is that its one big hole and that leaves the
left and right halves of the carb common.  I've always suspected that
this defeated the design of the dual plane intake and was possibly
hurting my low end power.

To battle this problem, I cut out a 3/4" strip from some 1/4" sheet
aluminum. I made a 1/4" thick notch in the center of the front and rear
of the adapter hole.  The adapter is tapered so that the spread side is
larger than the square size.  I cut the notches deep enough so that the
spread side of notch went  1/4" into the adapter.  I then file fit the
3/4" divider into the adapter so that the left and right halves were
seperated.  note, the divider is of the same height as the adapter (or
course).

This made a noticable difference!!  revving between 1500 and 3000 rpm is
much smoother than before.  response and power below 3000 is noticably
better!

Of course, a squarebore intake for a squarebore carb is the best intake
solution, but sometimes, like in my case, budgets allow for adapters and
not manifolds.

if anyone tries it, let me know!!

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car





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------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:00:40 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: In-Digest-ible

It appears that a dud digest addressee has caused at least 2 bounced
digests to be returned to the digest itself. Sort of like a "fatal
embrace", this is causing the digests to be regenerated and so today (so
 far) 3 digests have been produced. I am working on removing the
offending party as this is being written so please, bear with me and
sorry for any full mailboxes this may have caused.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:05:06 -0400
Subject: heater fan motor

Now that it's cold in the midwest, the heater fan motor in my'68 Cutlass
is going belly up.

Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast? I can't imagine that
the motor should cost  much, but certainly nothing is obvious about
replacement.

Suggestions, advice, etc appreciated.  I know, tough guys don't need
heaters!

TIA

Roger Hitson
hitson@leadbelt.com

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:11:43 -0400
Subject: Indy Pace Car

I have read in some of my books that say that the '70 Indy Pace Cars
(Code Y-74) 4-4-2 and Cutlass could not be ordered with the W-30 option.
However, I have heard that there are some (few) that were original '70
4-4-2 W-30 Pace Cars with the original paperwork.  Has anybody seen one
of these cars with the original doc's?  Also, where any '70 Cutlass
Supreme (series 342) Indy Pace Cars made with the 455cid engine?  Any
input would be appreciated.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:15:42 -0400
Subject: Re: What's real? - long winded sorry..

I want in on this discussion...please:

 O.K., the fact that we see many built-up (hate using the word 'fake' to
describe these types of cars becuase becuase in reality a car is a car
and nothingelse) 442, W-30's is probably why this topic arose. Believe
me I've seen my share, that's one of the main reasons why this
list/group exists. It helps us all become more knowlegeable about the
hobby we love to do -- oldsmobiles. My take on this is very simple.
Anyone can do what ever their hearts desires, it's their car. However,
when the need arises to sell and the car is promoted to be something it
is not then I have a problem with that. But we know better, becuase
after all  we are educated affectionatos..right and we can tell when we
see a fake...sorry I mean buid-ups.

However, getting down to when builds-ups are o.k. In my opinion,
changing a '68-'71 Cutlass/F-85 into a 442 or a 442 to W-30's is a no-no
for originality sake. Yes it can be done but at a cost, the cost being
you now own a car that is built-up not original. You may be wonder why I
left out the '72 model year. Ahh, this year is special. Let me explain.
In '72 unlike in '68-'71, Cutlasses or 442's (W-30) were all actual
models but in '72 there were only Cutlasses/F85 or W-30's models, thats
it. So if you wanted a 442 that would be a Cutlass with a 442 package.
If you wanted a W-30, you had to order it as such. IMHO, I see nothing
wrong with adding packages that were available both from the factory or
dealer to the car and calling the car as such because nothing has
changed, the model is still the same, the difference is that it now has
more options. My point is that options don't make a model. Models are
defined by the factory and only by the factory.

Case in point my '72 442. The car is actually a Cutlass by model however
I have added the 442 package available for that year. The car is still a
Cutlass however I refer to it as a 442 only becuase of the badges it
wears. This could not be done with a '71 Cutlass, only because the VIN
number already states the car as a Cutlass model not a 442, which would
have a different VIN number. So when you see that '70 442 W-30 look
closely it could be a '70 Cutlass with 442 badges and W-30 options,
inwhich case it's a Cutlass with W-30 options, that's it.

Anyway let me know if you want more clarification.

Fernando
'72 442

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:13:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Body identification

Hey Chris

You will probably get lots of answers.
The "G" bodies are the Cutlasses, Regals, Grand Pris, and Monte Carlos
made from '81-'87 also including the '88 Cutlass Classic, and I think
the '80 and late 70's cars of this type.  Both of my Cutlasses are "G"
bodies.  The "A" body was the older of these types of cars e.g. 60's
early 70's the ones with the more round, almost fastback-like design.
Hey trivia buffs, what is the origin of this system of classification?
Also, what is the dividing point between these designs?  I've always
thought that the mid 70's cars were sort of a "fuzzy" spot in between.
There are lots of other designs signified by letters: X-body Citation,
J2000, etc. F-body Firebird, Camaro... K-cars Chrysler, I think we all
remember these! B-bodies Chrysler W-bodies (I think this is what they
are referring to the new Cutlass design (post 88) as.  Correct me if
I'm wrong).

Anyway, you get the point!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks wrote:

> Ok gang,
>
>      I keep seeing references to A, G, what bodies.  What in the heck
> does this mean?  All I know is that my 68 442 is an "A" body car.
> So what.  What does that mean?
>
> Chris Sparks
>
>

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Roger Hitson wrote:
> Now that it's cold in the midwest, the heater fan motor in my'68
Cutlass is > going belly up. > Has anyone experience with replacing
such a beast? I can't imagine that the > motor should cost  much, but
certainly nothing is obvious about replacement.

Well, it's similar to replacing a heater core in terms of work,
unfortunately, which I just did this weekend. Almost as hard, at least.
The problem is that it's buried behind the right inner fender and so to
get at it you have to remove the inner fender. Once that piece is out of
the way, the blower motor is held in with 2 sheetmetal screws and can be
easily replaced. You will have to transfer the "squirrel cage" fan from
the old unit to the new, but that is easy to do. Reassembly is the
reverse of the above as the saying goes. Count on the better part of an
afternoon.

I have seen new replacement motors in the $40-$70 range.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:23:47 -0400
Subject: Re:JL pace cars and W-31 distributors

In a message dated 96-11-12 07:49:23 EST, you write:

<< Let me know if you've actually found them in the correct colors (if
you
 did I'll keep looking). >>
My friends and fellow hobby collectors.  I have one extra set of
original color pace cars.  There are 8 cars to the set with the
70 and 74 H/O's being white and the 77 silver and black.  I want
to sell the set complete.  There was a fellow that wanted them
and he said he would contact me in November, but I have not
herd from him.  If there are any interested parties, E-mail me direct
at W MACHINES@aol.com.

Also I have still the 69 and 70 W-31 distributors forsale.  Somebody
wanted the 70 also, but I haven't heard from him either.

W MACHINES  (Mark Prince)
(2) 1972 442 W-30's

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:39:10 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

>Now that it's cold in the midwest, the heater fan motor in my'68
Cutlass is >going belly up.

>Suggestions, advice, etc appreciated.  I know, tough guys don't need
heaters!


     Last winter the heater went out in the GranSport, for which I
~gladly~ removed the front fender (yes that is sarcasm!)  Of course, to
do this, it wasn't necessary, but it really helped to get the hood off
of there, first. Since all of those little pressed in clips broke off of
the inner fender, I didn't get it back on right away.  We ~all~ know how
one thing leads to another, and I was well aware of the bondo content of
the front end of the fender, so the entire front clip spent most of the
winter in the basement getting pounded on.  Nonthing fancy, but much
better.  I ~sure~ got some funny looks driving it around, tho!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:39:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Convert solid roof to T-top???

>Is there any way of converting a solid-roof car to the T-top variety?
>I've got my current car for all the parts.  Is the T-top variety
>just the same as the solid except for a couple holes and trim plates,
>brackets, etc that could be taken off and put on another car after
>cutting the same size holes in the roof???
>

For a good bodyman, I don't think it's too tough.  I've seen much worse
done.  I'd schemed for years on how it would be done to the Rockit,
until I found the '83.  (which ~also~ has broken and rusted seams in the
trunk!  I guess it must be from the weaker structure.)  I have the
exploded parts diagram, I'll try to find a home on my page for it
sometime soon.  (And let y'all know when it gets there!)  My personal
thoughts on the matter is that you should be able to chop the roof off
about 2/3 down the pillars, and save enough of the metal to reuse.
Drilling out spotwelds would be a very time consuming procedure, but I'm
certain it could be done.  I know the front pillars have like three or
four layers of steel in there, and I'm unsure about the back.  If your
"Lucky" is ready to say goodbye to everyone, I'd say grab the torch, and
have fun.  (Take the glass out, first!)  Most good bodyworkers should be
able to salvage the rest of the operation.  (My thoughts, at least!)

Good luck, & keep us posted!



      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:51:47 -0400
Subject: Jason Hairston

Anybody out there have an email address for Jason Hairston?  He sent me
a message and I inadvertently zapped it before I could reply.  It was
jth442@***.net, I think.  I'm sure about the jth442, think there weere 3
 characters after the @, and believe it was .net.  Thanks!  Please
reply directly to dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us; I don't subscribe to the
newsgroup.  Thanks again!

Doug Kitchener

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

Now that it's cold in the midwest, the heater fan motor in my'68 Cutlass
is going belly up.

Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast? I can't imagine that
the motor should cost  much, but certainly nothing is obvious about
replacement.


          Unfortunately, as with the heater core, the R&R of the fan
          motor requires removal of the right fender (which in turn
          requires removal of the hood).  I've done it this way
          several times.  I've heard of people who were able to simply
          unbolt the plastic inner fender and push it out of the way
          to get access, however I've usually found that the bolts
          between the inner and outer fender along the wheel arch are
          rusted to the clip nuts (the clip nuts are on the inner
          fender and the bolts pass through holes in the outer fender
          lip) and the clip nuts break and spin.  This design is
          common to all 68-72 A-body cars.

          Once you have the fender off, change the heater core as
          well.  You'd certainly hate to have to do this again in six
          months!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:38:53 -0400
Subject: Re: What's real? - long winded sorry..

In a message dated 96-11-12 17:22:18 EST, you write:
<< O.K., the fact that we see many built-up (hate using the word 'fake'
to
 describe these types of cars becuase becuase in reality a car is a car
 and nothingelse) 442, W-30's is probably why this topic arose. Believe
 me I've seen my share, that's one of the main reasons why this
 list/group exists. It helps us all become more knowlegeable about the
 hobby we love to do -- oldsmobiles. My take on this is very simple.
 Anyone can do what ever their hearts desires, it's their car. However,
 when the need arises to sell and the car is promoted to be something it
 is not then I have a problem with that. But we know better, becuase
 after all  we are educated affectionatos..right and we can tell when we
 see a fake...sorry I mean buid-ups.
 However, getting down to when builds-ups are o.k. In my opinion,
 changing a '68-'71 Cutlass/F-85 into a 442 or a 442 to W-30's is a
no-no
 for originality sake. Yes it can be done but at a cost, the cost being
 you now own a car that is built-up not original. You may be wonder why
I
 left out the '72 model year. Ahh, this year is special. Let me explain.
 In '72 unlike in '68-'71, Cutlasses or 442's (W-30) were all actual
 models but in '72 there were only Cutlasses/F85 or W-30's models, thats
 it. So if you wanted a 442 that would be a Cutlass with a 442 package.
 If you wanted a W-30, you had to order it as such. IMHO, I see nothing
 wrong with adding packages that were available both from the factory or
 dealer to the car and calling the car as such because nothing has
 changed, the model is still the same, the difference is that it now has
 more options. My point is that options don't make a model. Models are
 defined by the factory and only by the factory.
  Case in point my '72 442. The car is actually a Cutlass by model
however
 I have added the 442 package available for that year. The car is still
a
 Cutlass however I refer to it as a 442 only becuase of the badges it
 wears. This could not be done with a '71 Cutlass, only because the VIN
 number already states the car as a Cutlass model not a 442, which would
 have a different VIN number. So when you see that '70 442 W-30 look
 closely it could be a '70 Cutlass with 442 badges and W-30 options,
 inwhich case it's a Cutlass with W-30 options, that's it.
 Anyway let me know if you want more clarification.
  Fernando
 '72 442
  >>
I agree with you since 72 is my favorite year.  From 68 to 71 the vin
started with 344 to desinate a 442 and the W-30 was a package not
reconizable by numbers but only options.  In 72 442 became a option, so
in esence you could order a 72 Cutlass with a 350 2 BBl carb and put the
442 option on it.  The W-30 option was a Cutlass that had the 442
package and a special engine that was desinated in the Vin Number with
the letter X.

I call Cutlass's made into 442's and W-30's wannabes.  The person
can not afford the real car, so they put on options on it.  If you ever
go to a car show, I sure do see alot of 70 W-30's.  Now not all of them
are right since the factory only made a certain amount.  What erks me
is that a collectable car dealer will sell a cutlass as a 442 or W-30.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:45:21 -0400
Subject: Flight time!!!

     I've got a question about av gas.  I finally decided to try the
Rockit out with some of it last week (definately a noticable
difference!)  The higher octane ratings mean a lower combustibility,
reducing preignition. Does this imply that a stronger spark may be
necessary?  If I was to run this stuff a lot, (I think its a 100
lowlead, but I didn't get that much for answers at the pump!)  Our 91
octane "super no lead" here is in the $1.59/gallon range, and the AvGas
is $1.55 (since it is taxed differently, or not at all, or something
like that!)  I'm thinking I'd be plum foolish to ~not~ run the stuff
when faced with these figures!  Does anyone know much about this stuff?
Are there drawbacks to be aware of?  I've also heard it's a much cleaner
fuel, too.  Any thoughts/suggestions?


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "TIMOTHY_J. MILLER" <MILLERTI@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 19:39:59 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

    I believe that they were called gutless because the cutlass had
lacked the performance of other cars through the late 70's to the
present. Putting in 231 buicks (boat anchor) was a very poor choice
considering that the cars were well over 3000 lbs. Putting 307 motors
in the late 70's and 80's and trying to keep up with the performance
of a 350 chevy in a camaro. Staying with a 350rocket or a 403 olds
would make any cutlass a bad ass ride. Gear ratios didn't help any of
the cars either, the cars were usually 2.7-3.08 gears which certainly
is not going to get a 3 speed tranny machine off the line and get
with the program like it should.
Tim Miller
82 Cutlass 305 chevy

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 19:41:39 -0400
Subject: 455 rebuild costs

Well, I'm swapping the 350 in my 72 Delta 88 Conv. for a '69 455
(courtesy of Chris Witt).  This will be my first rebuild/swap.  This
will be a very budget rebuild.  Just trying to restore engine to
original condition, with a few hi-performance part where economical.
Right now I'm trying to get a ballpark figure of what this is gonna cost
me.

Could those of you who've rebuilt 455's give a run down of the costs
involved?  I only need estimations.

This is what I figured:

Engine: $350
Valve job: 350 (w/ hardened valve seats, pushrods, and lifters?)
Rings, gaskets, seals, timing chain, and rod bearings: 200-250
Dual exhaust: 400 (including flowmasters)
Tranny rebuild:  400 (ouch!)

I'm sure there will be other little things, but isn't this the bulk of
it? Am about right with the costs?  What else should I count on?

Thanks for you help, it's much appreciated.

- -Aaron

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 19:24:14 -0400
Subject: FAQ - Acknowledgements list

I have the following people listed in the Acknowledgements section of
the FAQ.  Some addresses are missing, along with some real names.
There are a number of people missing from this list as well.  Another
fixer up to be done.

Please send me your address and www URL so I can add/update this list.

Thanks,
David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -----------------------
Doug Ahern
doug@cosmic.uga.edu
www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html

Bob Barry

Greg Beaulieu
Olds Mail List Administrator
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
Without Greg setting up and managing the Mail List Server, none of us
would have this FAQ.

John T. Blair
jblair@exis.net

Mike Burton
burtonmd@craft.camp.clarkson.edu

Pat Clark
clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

Scott R. Clark
mickeyd@selway.umt.edu

Bill Culp

Roger Currie
roger628@elim.co.kr

Dan
dr_olds@kfmw.net

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@direct.ca

Jeff Easton
eastoja.add@notes.abbott.com

Ed Ekstrom
eekstrom@coris.com

Chris Fair
ChrisFair@fairisaac.com

Joe Ferrero
jjf97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu

Michael R. Frederick
Toro Mail List Administrator
edison3@cpeq.com www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

Art Fuller

Glenn's Oldsmobile Tune-up and Repair Guide 1955 -1974
Harold T. Glenn

Andrew C. Green
acg@frame.com

Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html

Todd Hall
thall@en.com

Bob Handren
BobH592058@aol.com

Stephen Hoover
Shang@dfwmm.net

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

The Hurst Heritage, High Performance History
by Robert C. Lichty and Terry V. Boyce
Copyright 1983, Dobbs Publications Inc.

Tom L.

Jason Labay
z28cfi@gwis.com

Robert Lawrence
lawrencr@gdls.com

Gregg Ludlam
gludlam@bcinet.net

Rob Malland

Tom Millard
OLDSPWR@aol.com

Mondello Performance Products, Inc.
1103 Paso Robles Street
Paso Robles, CA 93446

Scott Mullen
r_mullen@merck.com

Brad Nicholson
President, Capitol City Rockets
76062.3042@compuserve.com

Chuck Noppe
Oldsnut@westworld.com

Oldsmobile, Division of General Motors
oldsmobile.com
Well, they sort of originated everything in this FAQ!

Joe Padavano
jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

Dave Paulison
dpauliso@metrolink.net

Steve Paulson

Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

John Preston
johnspr@ix.netcom.com

Mark Prince
WMACHINES@AOL.COM

Fernando Proietto

Greg Pruett
grpruett@vt.edu

Rod Rickenbach
rod@dtcc.edu

Drew Senko
senko@reston.ans.net

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

Shawn M. Twomey
stwom@ctp.com

Rob Turner

Chris Urban

Bob Valentine
ravalent@liii.com

Jon Wessel
Director, Hurst/Olds Club of America

David Wilk

Chris B. Witt
Rocket Science
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
*the* Rocket Scientist
Thanks to Chris for the abundance of engine information!

Jeff Zeilmann
jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 19:56:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Indy Pace Car

In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:49 EST, you write:

<< I have read in some of my books that say that the '70 Indy Pace Cars
(Code
 Y-74) 4-4-2 and Cutlass could not be ordered with the W-30 option.
However,
 I have heard that there are some (few) that were original '70 4-4-2
W-30
 Pace Cars with the original paperwork.  Has anybody seen one of these
cars
 with the original doc's?  Also, where any '70 Cutlass Supreme (series
342)
 Indy Pace Cars made with the 455cid engine?  Any input would be
appreciated. >>

I have a copy of a memo from Olds Division that states that the W30
option was not available with Y74. I have never seen one or heard of
one, either. And all Cutlass pace cars were 350 engines.

Jon Wessel
former Y74 owner

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 20:20:51 -0400
Subject: Gutless?!?

Someone posted a question about the Cutlass being nicknamed gutless.
I've heard a number of different ones over the years.  A few are:
Charger - chargeless
Valiant - valium
Vega - vagrant
LeMans - lemons
Most of these were from the people that owned the cars...
BTW, I heard gutless back in the late 60s.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 20:40:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

If I remember correctly the gas is actually harmful to your engine in
some way due to it not having certain properties that are required in a
car engine. Unfortunately I don't remember any of the particulars, maybe
the chemist here can clear this up. I thought I'd speak up just in case
you run enough of it  through your engine to do damage...... investigate
it some more first.



Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Flight time!!!
> Date: Tuesday, November 12, 1996 5:45 PM
>
>      I've got a question about av gas.  I finally decided to try the
Rockit
> out with some of it last week (definately a noticable difference!)
The > higher octane ratings mean a lower combustibility, reducing
preignition. > Does this imply that a stronger spark may be necessary?
If I was to run > this stuff a lot, (I think its a 100 lowlead, but I
didn't get that much for > answers at the pump!)  Our 91 octane "super
no lead" here is in the > $1.59/gallon range, and the AvGas is $1.55
(since it is taxed differently, > or not at all, or something like
that!)  I'm thinking I'd be plum foolish to > ~not~ run the stuff when
faced with these figures!  Does anyone know much > about this stuff?
Are there drawbacks to be aware of?  I've also heard it's > a much
cleaner fuel, too.  Any thoughts/suggestions? > > >       Charley
Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >       500 4th Ave.
| "charley@rocketship.com" >       Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >       Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >       "Rockit 1"            | '81
Olds Cutlass 425 >       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > >

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:50:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter storage and Jack Stand Placement

> >Why not put junkyard wheels and tires on the car instead of lifting
> >it? If you store the car in a garage and for some reason you had to
> >move the car to get at something or in case of fire, you could just
> >push the car out.

> at the rear, so the suspension isn't hanging free but the tires are
off > the ground.  I alwaays was told that when storing a car for an
extended length of time like 3 mo or more you should leave the
suspension free of weight. This keeps the weight off the springs and
keeps them from sagging. The storage is different that driving as when
driving the springs are always expanding and contracting. This is what
they are supposed to do. They sometimes are as fully extended as the
suspention componates allow them to be. These movements prevent the
springs from developing sag. Having the car sit for extended periods of
time causes them to lose their resilency. Don't know if this is true
just what i learned in auti shop.

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 20:51:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Indy Pace Car

Jon442@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:49 EST, you write:
>
> << I have read in some of my books that say that the '70 Indy Pace
Cars (Code >  Y-74) 4-4-2 and Cutlass could not be ordered with the W-30
option.  However, >  I have heard that there are some (few) that were
original '70 4-4-2 W-30 >  Pace Cars with the original paperwork.  Has
anybody seen one of these cars >  with the original doc's?  Also, where
any '70 Cutlass Supreme (series 342) >  Indy Pace Cars made with the
455cid engine?  Any input would be appreciated. > >> > > I have a copy
of a memo from Olds Division that states that the W30 option > was not
available with Y74. I have never seen one or heard of one, either. > And
all Cutlass pace cars were 350 engines. > Hmmmm, the books I have say
the 70 pace car came standard with the 455 and that "some Cutlass Pace
Cars have the 350 4bbl".  If it's a real (didn't we just have a
discussion about this word?) Y74, the cowl tag would be stamped Y74.
The ACTUAL pace cars were 442s that used W30 heads and distributor.  The
rest of the cars used at Indy (49 of 'em) were Cutlass versions, all
having the 455.  BTW, my book says the backup pace car was destroyed and
that the one that paced the 70 Indy is in a garage in Lansing.

I know some ones gonna say "You can't believe everything you read".
They're right.  I was in a bookstore the other day leafing through a
coffee table book on musclecars and they showed a 70 442 W30 (cool).
But the text had ERRORS.  Like "70 was the first year for forced air
induction on the W30" and "the W30 came with the aluminum W27 axle
carrier (read standard)".  Of course, what can you expect from a book of
about 200 pages that are mostly full of Mopeds (read Mop**s)?

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:55:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter storage and Jack Stand Placement

Andy,
  I don't know if the significant other thing would work.  She
never really liked my '68 442 convert, and besides that, I just
kicked her out about a month ago (Don't worry, we weren't married
and no kids or anything.  Nice and clean).

Craig Dobbins
Lockport, N.Y.


>Date:		Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:52:08 -0400
>From:	"Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject:	Re: Winter storage and Jack Stand Placement
>
>>Why not put junkyard wheels and tires on the car instead of
lifting
>>it? If you store the car in a garage and for some reason you had
to
>>move the car to get at something or in case of fire, you could
just
>>push the car out.
>
>I like this idea. I was going to say that when you put it up on
>jackstands, I'd put them under the lower A-arms at the front and
under
>the rear axle at or near the spring shackles or coil seats --
whatever --
>at the rear, so the suspension isn't hanging free but the tires
are off
>the ground. But by swapping on semi-disposable wheels and tires
you do
>keep a mobile car, plus on those cold winter nights you can curl
up with
>your loved ones next the fire and polish the good wheels together.
Ask
>your Significant Other what he/she thinks of this idea. They'll be
>speechless, I bet!
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 20:58:17 -0400
Subject: Re: '68 A-pillar trim

>I think that the A-pillar part you are referring to is between the
>windshield & the door glass(s).  The convertible is unique but the same
>in Chevy, Buick, & Pointiac. I believe that it is the same from 1968
>thru 1972 even though some have vent windows & some don't.  The
>stainless covers all of the A-pillar, slips under the upper & lower
>windshield trim & screws onto the inside of the windshield pillar
>(hidden by the door/window gasket).

Yes, that is what I needed to know.

Thank you!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:12:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Convert solid roof to T-top???

> Is there any way of converting a solid-roof car to the T-top variety?
> I've got my current car for all the parts.  Is the T-top variety
> just the same as the solid except for a couple holes and trim plates,
> brackets, etc that could be taken off and put on another car after
> cutting the same size holes in the roof???

Don't know for sure about this. My body man friend told me that the
frame and structure are not different as in convertibles.

> My guess is that it's not and that it's totally different.  Is it
> possible then to graft the entire roof from a T-top car to another
> car or will this be ridiculously expensive???

Again, my bodyman friend has done quite a few Firebird T-top
conversions. He also did a 79 cutalss t-top graft as the origional car
was in very bad shape. He said it should cost around 200-300 dollars
for labor not including finish paint (cause the cost of any additional
work and paint) >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:02:09 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Undeliverable mail: local delivery failure]

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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:23:18 -0400
Resent-from: KURT W MANNING <MANNINGK@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: What's real? (was: 70 442 W-30 VIN)
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Kurt Heinrich wrote:
>
> JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> >
> > Hey Joe,
> >           ...<snip>...
> > Would it be so bad that if a person did upgrade their vehicle to a
have > > all of the above?  Stating that it is a fake is a very strong >
> statement.  I feel that if a person would go to such an extreme, then >
> if they want to believe its a W-30 then so be it.  Wouldn't this > >
upgraded car be effectively the same as a W-30?  I am knew to the world >
> of automotive accuracy.  Please excuse any ignorance on my part. > > >
> Chris Sparks > > 68 442 > >           Funny you should mention this.
I had actually written a few > >           lines to this extent on my
original post then thought better > >           of it and deleted them
before mailing.  I have mixed > >           feelings about this.  If you
did all of the above, you would > >           have effectively built a
"real" W-30, with all of the > >           equipment and performance of
a factory unit.  If you did > >           this for your own use, great.
If you did this and tried to > >           sell it as an original W-30,
is it a fake or not?  I'd have > >           to say yes, it is a fake,
because there is some perceived > >           value (at least, to some
buyers) to having an "original", as > >           opposed to  a
"reproduction".  The line gets really fuzzy > >           when the car
gets restored. > > My thoughts are that if the car left the factory as
a Cutlass and you > made it into a 442 (with all the right parts), it's
still a Cutlass (not > original, but a Cutlass none the less).  If you
took a 442 and W30'd it > the line is fuzzier because the W30 was a
442...  But, it is more than > an intake manifold, hood, etc.  They had
different cams, lifters, etc > and were blueprinted. > In my mind if the
if it didn't LEAVE THE FACTORY AS A W30, THAN IT'S NOT > A W30. > I've
thought of W30ing a car (strictly for my pleasure, not to try and > sell
as a W30), but would not do this to a numbers matching 442.  Not > that
I'm a stickler for originality, but if you have a good original why >
destroy it? > > Kurt 71 442

Kurt,

If we are having this discussion, that should be telling us something
about our conscience when we change a car from as built.  I will say at
the outset that I have changed every car that I have ever owned.  I feel
that I have an extension of myself when I do this & not just a piece of
GM production.  The next guy just gets my efforts in any way that they
wish to see them.

I don't think that it is right to misrepresent a car.  While it is
yours, change it as you will but be honest about it & expressly so to a
potential new owner.  If you are honest w/yourself & others you will
probably be moderate in changes to a car & therefore retain a valuable
car.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Did you know that I am putting a Hurst electric sunroof form a
Hurst Grand Prix in my 1967 Toronado?  Of course it's original.  It came
ont the Pontiac didn't it?


- --Boundary (ID 0H0NehNUGWihtemEzHb0wA)--

------------------------------

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From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: '68 A-pillar trim
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Craig Dobbins wrote:
>
> Dave,
>   If you mean the little 6-inch (or so) pieces down near the
> headlight area;  they came on both Cutlass and 442.  The only piece
> that is unique to the convertable is the long stainless trim piece
> that continued from the rear quarter glass, down to the end of the
> rear Q-panel.
>
> Craig Dobbins
> '68 442 Convertable.
>
>
> >Subject:       '68 A-pillar trim
> >
> >Does anyone know if the A-pillar stainless trim (on the outside of
> the
> >A-pillar) on a '68 Cutlass convertible is unique to the
> convertible?  Or is
> >it the same as the '68 hardtops?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >--
> >Dave Paulison

> >
> >
Dave,

I think that the A-pillar part you are referring to is between the
windshield & the door glass(s).  The convertible is unique but the same
in Chevy, Buick, & Pointiac. I believe that it is the same from 1968
thru 1972 even though some have vent windows & some don't.  The
stainless covers all of the A-pillar, slips under the upper & lower
windshield trim & screws onto the inside of the windshield pillar
(hidden by the door/window gasket).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama


- --Boundary (ID n51rS+0g2g4GYVvbpacHUQ)--

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:04:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

     Av-gas's idea of "low lead" is hardly what your or I would consider

     "low".  It still has many times the amount of lead that leaded gas
     (when it was available) had.  Therefore, one drawback might be lead

     deposits and fouling plugs.  I don't think it'd be a serious
problem
     on a car without a cat or O2 sensor though.

     Another drawback is that it's not _supposed_ to be sold for
automotive
     use.  If you've found a place that will sell it to you straight
into
     your car (rather than filling 5-gallon jerry cans) then more power
to
     you.  But they're not supposed to do that, I'd keep things low-key
for
     the time being.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Flight time!!! Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/12/96 4:20 PM

~not~ run the stuff when faced with these figures!  Does anyone know
much about this stuff?  Are there drawbacks to be aware of?  I've also
heard it's a much cleaner fuel, too.  Any thoughts/suggestions?

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:15:54 -0400
Subject: NOS carbs

Just outta curiosity...

What would folks be willing to pay for an NOS W30 carb, say 1968-9
vintage? In case I happened to run across a certain qty of them...?
7029253, maybe an extra 7028254 like for my '68 W30?

Please respond directly to the email address shown below. Remember,
these are NOS, new GM carbs in the box. The guy in TX charges about $500
for a rebuilder core '70 W30 carb... used. - -- Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:45:38 -0400
Subject: Re: members registry

zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu (Clayton Pierce's secret name) wrote:
>
> I recieved a couple of suggestions for improvements on the page.

Lookin WAY excellent, dude.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: chris burge <cburge@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:20:58 -0400
Subject: clubs

I live in Atlanta ga. Where is the nearest club?

thanks

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:46:32 -0400
Subject: '72 4-4-2 Question

With the discussion here on the '72 4-4-2 and it's status as an option
package as opposed to a separate model, I got to wondering...

Earlier model 4-4-2s had among other features a heavy-duty frame (I
believe the convertible frame). Did this hold true for '72 as well? It
almost sounds like it might not from what I've read. Just curious...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:54:48 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

Chris Sparks writes:
>Does anyone know why the Olds Cutlass was called gutless.  Just want
>to know.

Just a stretch here, because it rhymes?
;-)


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Teleflex E-Mail: TFX!TFXTROYMI!TFXTROYPO!mikeh@tfx.attmail.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:55:55 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

>Well, it's similar to replacing a heater core in terms of work,
>unfortunately, which I just did this weekend. Almost as hard, at least.
>The problem is that it's buried behind the right inner fender and so to
>get at it you have to remove the inner fender. Once that piece is out
of >the way, the blower motor is held in with 2 sheetmetal screws and
can be >easily replaced. You will have to transfer the "squirrel cage"
fan from >the old unit to the new, but that is easy to do. Reassembly is
the reverse >of the above as the saying goes. Count on the better part
of an afternoon.

Mine went rather simply...I only spent a couple hours on it.  The inner
fender (plastic on '68, '69, etc) came out through the wheel well; I
didn't have to remove the hood.  I think my motor had three screws.

>I have seen new replacement motors in the $40-$70 range.

I got mine for $19.97 + tax, with a lifetime warranty.
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:18:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

At 06:45 PM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>     I've got a question about av gas.  I finally decided to try the
Rockit >out with some of it last week (definately a noticable
difference!)  The >higher octane ratings mean a lower combustibility,
reducing preignition. >Does this imply that a stronger spark may be
necessary?  If I was to run >this stuff a lot, (I think its a 100
lowlead, but I didn't get that much for >answers at the pump!)  Our 91
octane "super no lead" here is in the >$1.59/gallon range, and the AvGas
is $1.55 (since it is taxed differently, >or not at all, or something
like that!)  I'm thinking I'd be plum foolish to >~not~ run the stuff
when faced with these figures!  Does anyone know much >about this stuff?
Are there drawbacks to be aware of?  I've also heard it's >a much
cleaner fuel, too.  Any thoughts/suggestions? > > >      Charley
Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >      500 4th Ave.
| "charley@rocketship.com" >      Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >      Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds
Cutlass 425 >      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > I've been retired from the oil
business for ten years, but I doubt that things have changed much, save
for the tax rates.  Av gas is probably sold with the federal excise tax
(federal road tax) included, but probably does not have any state
gasoline/road tax added.  The state tax situation is a state by state
proposition.  If you use av gas and do not pay the state road tax on it
you are obviously in violation of your state law.  Call your state
capital, find the fuel tax division and ask, and if necessary ask how to
pay the tax when you buy otherwise untaxed fuel.  Otherwise you likely
risk going to jail.  They may also be able to advise you on the current
federal taxing situation as well.

Years ago avation gasoline as available in 4 grades, 80/87, 91/96,
100/115, and 115/130.  With the advent of turbine powered airliners the
demand for av gasoline diminshed greatly; so all of these grades may no
longer exist.

Use it especially if you can get 100 octaine.  100 octaine should allow
you to run at about 11.25 to 1 compression ratio without a knock
problem.

Cliff Feiler
dm

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:37:22 -0400
Subject: 83 Olds Calais w/ 403

Dana and Mary Taylor (and the rest):

Did the 403 come stock in the Calais in 1983?  I'm sure it didn't;
looking at the appendix in "Setting the Pace"...  I don't know much
about "decoding" engines (i.e. year of manufacture, etc.), but
(Taylors:) do you know the year of the 403?  Will it bolt straight in
(to a 1984 Calais)?  Thanks in advance.

____________________________
Jason K. Adcock
adcock@erols.com

1984 Olds Cutlass Calais
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:18:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 rebuild costs

At 07:41 PM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, I'm swapping the 350 in my 72 Delta 88 Conv. for a '69 455
(courtesy >of Chris Witt).  This will be my first rebuild/swap.  This
will be a very >budget rebuild.  Just trying to restore engine to
original condition, with a >few hi-performance part where economical.
Right now I'm trying to get a >ballpark figure of what this is gonna
cost me. > >Could those of you who've rebuilt 455's give a run down of
the costs >involved?  I only need estimations. > >This is what I
figured: > >Engine: $350 >Valve job: 350 (w/ hardened valve seats,
pushrods, and lifters?) >Rings, gaskets, seals, timing chain, and rod
bearings: 200-250 >Dual exhaust: 400 (including flowmasters) >Tranny
rebuild:  400 (ouch!) > >I'm sure there will be other little things, but
isn't this the bulk of it? >Am about right with the costs?  What else
should I count on? > >Thanks for you help, it's much appreciated. >
>-Aaron > > _____ >|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >|  |  | Aaron
Neumann St. Marys, OH  * >|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           * >| /|\
| 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     * >|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*	 > > > > Are you doing the tear down and build up?

Hot tank and inspect block, heads, crank, and cam. $200. - $300.
Turn crank and new bearings, $175.00 - $200.00 *
Cylinder head job, including conversion to no lead by hard seats and
valves $100. to $150. ea ** Lifters/rings/seals/roller timing chain/O.H.
Gasket set/bearings  $250. - $300.

* This is assuming the crank needs turning
** Aluminum plating the valve heads is a little cheaper, and works very
well

And it all assumes you can use the original pistons,*** cam, crank, and
heads.

So far your you've spent         $200.          $300.
                                  175.           200.
                                  200.           300.
                                  250.           300.

So far you've spent              $825.          1100.

If you get a low milage block, you may not need to turn the crank, and
save the better part of a C note. If you got a high milage block, you
may need to bore, which means pistols, add a couple of C notes, and
        you don't get the other one back from the crank either.

*** If the bores are just a few 0.0010's over size, it is often possible
to knurl the pistons and reuse them.

Pitfals, engine got hot and the heads or an amazing array of cracks.
This is why you pay for a clean job and inspection.  They can see a lot
of potential damage by magna-fluxing the engine, prior to spending a lot
of money on a bad part.  Crank is too bad to turn, or is already well
undersize.  Same goes for the bores.  About 0.060" is about all that is
safe to overbore a cylinder without going to much inspection expense;
and the casting may not be square enough to support more anyway.

Your <> $00. for the exhaust is probably a serviceable estimate.  You
didn't say what tranny you intend to use.

Here a the el junque-o TH 200 will cost $150. - 200. The differences are
not in the work, but rather the warranty you want to pay for.

A TH 350 will be in the $200. to 300. range, again depending.

I havn't had a TH 400 done in a long time, and have never paid for a
700R4, and of course this is assuming you intend to use an automtic.
I've never paid for a TH 200 either, but they usually quote them when
that is what was in the car.)  The minimum a/t you should use is a 350.

Two weeks ago I started rounding up 455 parts to build an engine, and so
far I've accumulated bits and pieces of 5.  Out of the five all
imcomplete but two: I've salavaged one good block, another that will
bore good at 0.010" over and another that is good but is already at
0.060" over.  I have one almost usable crank already at 0.030" under,
several good cams.  I got five heads, none of which were useable, four,
actually five unusable cranks.  Of course these engines were donated
from under workbenches and in clunker cars.  And I mean donated.  Good
455 components are not impossible; but are starting to be difficult.

Figure on spending close to $2000 for the engine, and then add the
tranny. And this is if you do the tear down, and build up yourself, ie,
the bargain basement.  A shop will be at least $1000. higher, here.

Don't skip hot tank and magnaflux, even though it costs a few bucks.
And don't let a wise guy tell you he can repair ten dozen cracks in a
head, or bore 0.10" because they cannot routinely guarantee satisfactory
work under this set of circumstances.

When the block is clean, paint the inside with electrical motor
insulating paint (that strange orange colored stuff) and the outside,
and this case I'll assume it was Oldsmobile blue.  Affer painting, get a
set of taps and clean up every thread.  Remove overspray from the inside
of bearing seats and the cylinder bores.  Check that every hold than
runs anywhere is clean, clear and not blocked.

Even if the cylinders do not require boring they do require a bit of
grinding to seat the rings, so make sure that proceedure is
accomplished.

The only special tools that are required to reassemble the motor are a
torque wrench and piston ring compressor.

Also replace the fuel pump, water pump, distributor cap, coil, wires,
and rotor.  A rebuild on the distributor should be considered too.  Use
an aftermarked roller timing chain and sprockets.  Do not use genuine
Oldsmobile timing chain parts.  The factory uses a plastic cam gear (for
noise abatment) and that is always the first mechnical part to fail one
of their motors.  It is amazing how split, cracked and hammered one of
those plastic gears can get and still work; but it will fail.  If the
engine is under a good load, and the timing goes, it can wrack the
entire valve chain, when the moving pistons come up and slap the now
suck open valves; and two are now open.  (Two are always open.)

I'm sure you will get more input on this.  I like the 455 Olds engine.
I think that it and the bowtie 427 are the best big blocks GM ever put
out. Also get a build up book, for the torque specs, and any other
triviata that the 455 might need, and isn't mentioned in your responses.

Good luck.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:30:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter storage and Jack Stand Placement

I have a related question on storage, is it really necessary to use fuel
 stabilizer?  I stored my convertible about 2 weeks ago and forgot to
add it. It is a pain to get to the storage place (for me) and I'd have
to put the battery back in and all.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:32:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Dieselmania

In a message dated 96-11-12 17:01:10 EST, you write:

> What about the V6 diesel?   I remember seeing one of these mentioned
>  in a service manual, but I've never seen one to day.   I belive it
was a >  V6 *OLDS* too....

That would be the 4.3 litre (260) Diesel V6 available in Cutlass Cieras
from '82 thru '85, and '83 & '84 Cutlass Supremes, and '85 Ninety
Eights.  I've seen a few of these, having worked for an Olds garage, but
they were no where near as plentiful as the 5.7s.  They were a pretty
hot item with the Mennonite community around here as used cars.
Mennonites paint their cars all black, including the chrome (at least
they used to), for those of you who aren't aware what they are.  They're
a little more "worldly" than the Amish.

Anyway, these were available from '82 to '85.  I once contemplated the
purchase of a used '85 Ninety Eight Regency Brougham coupe with one of
these Diesels.  They were reported to be more reliable than their V8
cousins.
 These engines, from what I understand, were designed to be Diesels from
the git go, not just a converted gas motor.  But by the time they were
introduced, the Diesel already had a bad name.  As a matter of fact, in
'85 the Diesel was a NO CHARGE option (at least on the 98, or maybe that
was only Cadillac?).  And they couldn't even give them away!

Now, does anyone (WizKid doesn't count) know what the THIRD Olds Diesel
was?

Paul
Former Hammer-mill Driver

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:31:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

In a message dated 96-11-12 10:21:42 EST, you write:

> Yes I did a while back.  If you want I can submit it again.  I would
>  like to get to the bottom of this.
>
>  Chris Sparks
>  68 442
>

I kinda thought maybe you did.  What color did we tell you the interior
should be?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:32:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Spotted: Another '67 Cutlass Convt.

In a message dated 96-11-12 09:48:43 EST, you write:

> Also, how does the 10,897 number figure from 3,777 + 567?  Or was that
a typo?

No, no, no, Tim.  He meant:
10,897 Cutlass Supreme Convertibles
3,777 Cutlass (non Supreme) V8 Convertibles
567 Cutlass (non Supreme) L6 Convertibles

>  Didn't know about the 6 cylinder production... in fact, I wasn't even
aware
>  of any 6 cylinder engines in the Olds lineup in the late 60s, anybody
have

> any
>  info on it/them?

Yeah, this was an inline 6, 250 cid.  Available from '66 thru '71.  Was
a replacement for the 225 cid (Buick?) V6 available for '65 & '66.  The
250 had a 3.88 bore and a 3.53 stroke and was rated at 155hp.  These are
the same specs for Chevrolet's 250 straight 6.  Is this a coincidence,
or did Olds use the 'ol Blue Flame, paint it Gold and call it an
"Action-Line 6"?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:32:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Body identification

In a message dated 96-11-12 17:22:19 EST, you write:

> B-bodies Chrysler

This may be, but B is the designation for the 88, LeSabre and
Bonneville. C bodies are the NInety Eight, Park Avenue (or Electra) and
Cadillac DeVille or Concour.

And you're right, W is the current Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, Regal
and Monte Carlo & Lumina.

As for your trivia, I don't know the origin of lettering bodies, except
that GM started using this set-up in the late 30's early 40's

Chevrolet's were all As
Pontiacs were As and Bs
Oldsmobiles were As, Bs & Cs
Buicks were As, Bs & Cs
LaSalles were Bs and Cs
Cadillacs were Cs (don't know if they had a code for Fleetwood bodies)

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:32:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning

In a message dated 96-11-12 07:49:23 EST, you write:

> Are you talking about the pace car sets that include the winning Indy
>  car?
>  I've seen 'em (bought some) and am annoyed that the colors are WRONG
>  (knew it when I bought 'em, but I HAD to).  The pictures on the
package >  show the right colors, but the 70 is done in green and the 73
in done in >  blue.  I've looked at a number of stores and they were all
the same. >  Let me know if you've actually found them in the correct
colors (if you >  did I'll keep looking).

Yes, I found the correct ones.  The green '70 and blue '74  are both
part of set #2 which also includes a non-correct white and black '77
Delta.  Set #1 had a yellow '70, green '74 and brown and black '77.  Set
#3, which I picked up the other week, has a blue '70, purple '74 and
green and black '77.  The set I just bought is marked "Collector's
Edition" in the lower right hand corners where your packages are marked
set #2 (you did keep the packages, right?).  Anyway, the '70 is the
correct white, the '74 is the correct white, although it seems a little
off-white, guess that's OK.  The '77 is the correct silver and black.  I
just found the '77 tonight.  Went to the same department store chain
where I got the other two, but to a different store 25 miles away.  They
had 3 pace cars, the Cadillac Allante, '79 Mustang and the Olds -- and
that was all they had!  The Oldsmobile Gods were definately smiling on
my in the last two days!  Now, if I could just find those Ertls!

All I can tell you is keep looking, they are out there.  I checked Toys
R Us today and they had the first 3 pace cars series, but not the
collectors editions.  The Boscov's department store where I bought the
'70 and the '74 had (I think) one, maybe two of each left.  I guess if
you were desperate enough I could snag them for you.  By the way, I
think I remember from a previous post that there is one set in the
original colors and then there will be nine sets in different colors
like you already have.  They seem to be coming out with the new
incorrect sets about one every month or six weeks.

Paul
May the Oldsmobile Gods smile on you, too.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:32:19 -0400
Subject: Re: heater fan motor

In a message dated 96-11-12 17:16:50 EST, you write:

> Has anyone experience with replacing such a beast? I can't imagine
that the

>  motor should cost  much, but certainly nothing is obvious about
replacement.
>
>  Suggestions, advice, etc appreciated.  I know, tough guys don't need
heaters!
>
>
One word.  Fuses... and relays.  Well, OK, that's two.  Sue me.  I had
trouble with the blower on my '71 and it turned out to be the inline
fuse to the junction block AND the blower relay.  Discovered all that
AFTER I removed the passenger side tire and ripped the fender well out!

Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:43:47 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 4-4-2 Question

In a message dated 96-11-12 20:58:30 EST, you write:

<< Earlier model 4-4-2s had among other features a heavy-duty frame (I
 believe the convertible frame). Did this hold true for '72 as well? It
 almost sounds like it might not from what I've read. Just curious... >>

Only convertible Olds came with a box frame unlike its cousin the
Buick GS.  Buick GS's came with box frames until 72.  442's and
W-30's came with a standard c channel frame.  The Olds did have
an advantage because 442's and W-30s with FE2 suspensions
got the extra frame stiffners in the rear of the car.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:58:32 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 4-4-2 Question

WMACHINES@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 96-11-12 20:58:30 EST, you write:
>
> << Earlier model 4-4-2s had among other features a heavy-duty frame (I
>  believe the convertible frame). Did this hold true for '72 as well?
It >  almost sounds like it might not from what I've read. Just
curious... >> > > Only convertible Olds came with a box frame unlike
its cousin the > Buick GS.  Buick GS's came with box frames until 72.
442's and > W-30's came with a standard c channel frame.  The Olds did
have > an advantage because 442's and W-30s with FE2 suspensions > got
the extra frame stiffners in the rear of the car. > > W MACHINES

  Frame stiffeners?  I just bought a 1968 442 Hardtop.. While inspecting
the underside I noticed plates welded to the frame in the rear.  Would
this be the FE2?  I had just assumed a previous owner put them there for
added strength.

- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:18:01 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 4-4-2 Question

In a message dated 96-11-12 23:09:10 EST, you write:

<<  Frame stiffeners?  I just bought a 1968 442 Hardtop.. While
inspecting
 the underside I noticed plates welded to the frame in the rear.  Would
 this be the FE2?  I had just assumed a previous owner put them there
for
 added strength. >>

Unfortunately no, the plates are added.  The frame stiffner is actually
an extra set of arms that connect from the middle part of the rear frame
to the top of the top rearend control arm.

W MACHINES(Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:34:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

In a message dated 96-11-11 14:30:35 EST, you write:

<< I talked to Penny Casteele last week and told her I hadnt rec'd my
copy of
 the book either. She assured me that I would be getting one.
 Maybe they are sending the books out in alphabetical order by last
name.
 That would explain why Greg BEAULIEU has one and Bryce SMITH doesnt.
Has
 anyone with last names beginning with letters from the latter part of
the
 alphabet gotten one yet? Just a theory on my part, I failed to ask
Penny if
 last name order is how they were shipping. Sorry.
 They could also be shipping to blocks of members based on OCA member
 number. There are alot of members in OCA, it will probably take some
time
 to get them all covered.
  >>
My last name starts with "W"
I received my copy in Illinois last week - forwarded by the slowest
possible USPS method from the old address in CT, so I would say if you
don't have yours by now it means someone at Olds Public Relations may
have missed the boat.  Since I changed my address with OCA in August,
the mailing list must have been sent before then.  Which reminds me that
I have not received a JWO in awhile, so maybe they never did get that
address change....

David "W"ilk

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:29:35 -0400
Subject: RE: Flight time!!!

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- ----------
From: 	C.R.F.[SMTP:wizkid@inlink.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 12, 1996 8:18 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Flight time!!!

At 06:45 PM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>     I've got a question about av gas.  I finally decided to try the
Rockit >out with some of it last week (definately a noticable
difference!)  The >higher octane ratings mean a lower combustibility,
reducing preignition. >Does this imply that a stronger spark may be
necessary?  If I was to run >this stuff a lot, (I think its a 100
lowlead, but I didn't get that much for >answers at the pump!)  Our 91
octane "super no lead" here is in the >$1.59/gallon range, and the AvGas
is $1.55 (since it is taxed differently, >or not at all, or something
like that!)  I'm thinking I'd be plum foolish to >~not~ run the stuff
when faced with these figures!  Does anyone know much >about this stuff?
Are there drawbacks to be aware of?  I've also heard it's >a much
cleaner fuel, too.  Any thoughts/suggestions? > > >      Charley
Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >      500 4th Ave.
| "charley@rocketship.com" >      Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >      Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds
Cutlass 425 >      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > I've been retired from the oil
business for ten years, but I doubt that things have changed much, save
for the tax rates.  Av gas is probably sold with the federal excise tax
(federal road tax) included, but probably does not have any state
gasoline/road tax added.  The state tax situation is a state by state
proposition.  If you use av gas and do not pay the state road tax on it
you are obviously in violation of your state law.  Call your state
capital, find the fuel tax division and ask, and if necessary ask how to
pay the tax when you buy otherwise untaxed fuel.  Otherwise you likely
risk going to jail.  They may also be able to advise you on the current
federal taxing situation as well.

Years ago avation gasoline as available in 4 grades, 80/87, 91/96,
100/115, and 115/130.  With the advent of turbine powered airliners the
demand for av gasoline diminshed greatly; so all of these grades may no
longer exist.

Use it especially if you can get 100 octaine.  100 octaine should allow
you to run at about 11.25 to 1 compression ratio without a knock
problem.

Cliff Feiler
dm

I believe 100 is now known as 100LL, for low lead.
dj




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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD0E8.FD025840--

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:09:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Re[2]: olds vs. chevy

>          school, long before the 231-powered cars.  'Course, my
>          425-engined 68 Vista Cruiser made believers out of them.

Nice!  Olds station wagons are the frick!!!!

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
httP://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:35:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?

At 08:20 PM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone posted a question about the Cutlass being nicknamed gutless.
>I've heard a number of different ones over the years.  A few are:
>Charger - chargeless
>Valiant - valium
>Vega - vagrant
>LeMans - lemons
>Most of these were from the people that owned the cars...
>BTW, I heard gutless back in the late 60s.
>

Mustang - disgustang
Comet - vomit
Barracuda - bananacuda (from the old tv commercial)

Any more?

************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        Mailto:davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:36:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Dieselmania

At 10:32 PM 11/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-11-12 17:01:10 EST, you write:
>
>> What about the V6 diesel?   I remember seeing one of these mentioned
>>  in a service manual, but I've never seen one to day.   I belive it
was a >>  V6 *OLDS* too.... > >That would be the 4.3 litre (260) Diesel
V6 available in Cutlass Cieras from
                              ^^^
                        Chilton's lists it as a 263ci V-6 (just to pick
a nit) [snip] >near as plentiful as the 5.7s.  They were a pretty hot
item with the >Mennonite community around here as used cars.  Mennonites
paint their cars >all black, including the chrome (at least they used
to), for those of you who >aren't aware what they are.  They're a little
more "worldly" than the Amish.

And the diesel cars are acceptable, while the gasoline versions are not,
because diesel fuel is less "refined", and thus more natural than
gasoline. I don't know their views on LPG or propane-powered cars; we
kinda skipped over that chapter in my "American Religion" class.

>Now, does anyone (WizKid doesn't count) know what the THIRD Olds Diesel
was?

Sure, the Olds 260ci V-8 diesel, produced from 1979-1980; with a
whopping 90hp and 170 ft/lbs of torque, it made the 2.5L "Iron Duke"
motor look like a W-30 by comparison... ;)

I wonder why you never hear about buildups based on a "diesel-block
260"; perhaps the only engine whose main journal bores were larger than
the piston bores! (well, very nearly...)

I recall an article in Motor Trend from that era, when Olds was in the
thick of diesel development, which highlighted a "high-speed" diesel
that Olds developed, using tuned-port air induction, on that 263ci V-6.
They put it in a modified Ciera, and it bested the acceleration of the
gas version by a wide margin.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:36:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 83 Olds Calais w/ 403

At 09:37 PM 11/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Did the 403 come stock in the Calais in 1983?  I'm sure it didn't;
looking

No, it didn't; the 403 was only produced from '77-'79 (though in large
quantities)

>year of the 403?  Will it bolt straight in (to a 1984 Calais)?  Thanks
in >advance.

It will bolt directly in place of a 307 or a 260; externally they are
identical. The carb may have to be modified to work with the extra
cubes, however. And you'll have to keep the computer-controlled
distributor, assuming you want to keep the computer. Lucky for you, the
403 will accept a 307 or 260 distributor.

If you have a V-6 or a Ch*vy V-8, then you need the mounts and
accessories from a 307 or 260 equipped car.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:51:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutless?!?(2)

In a message dated 96-11-13 00:40:31 EST, you write:
<< >Someone posted a question about the Cutlass being nicknamed gutless.

 >I've heard a number of different ones over the years.  A few are:
 >Charger - chargeless
 >Valiant - valium
 >Vega - vagrant
 >LeMans - lemons
 >Most of these were from the people that owned the cars...
 >BTW, I heard gutless back in the late 60s.
 >Mustang - disgustang
 >Comet - vomit
 >Barracuda - bananacuda (from the old tv commercial)>>
  Mustang- Rustang
  Oldsmobile-slowmobile
  Chevelle-sh*tvelle
  Buick-Buwreck
  Pontiac-Pontidog
  Thunderbird-Thunderchicken
  Jeep-Heap
  How about initials like AMC- Almost a car,
  SAAB-Sorry A** automobile basicly
  Mopar- Mostly old parts and rust / Must own pickup and rope
  Ford-Find on road dead, Fix or repair daily, Fudge on race day
  Chevrolet-shove it or lay it
  anymore?

W MACHINES

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #365
******************************** 
