To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/16/96 11:15:58 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #369


oldsmobile-digest         Sunday, 17 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 369


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:22:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedometer

Dave,
I certainly can't speak for everybody, but I've never thought a floor
shift speedometer was rare. There were probably as many floor shift
cars in 68 and 69 as there were in other years. If they're rare, and
therefore, more expensive, then I have a small fortune in speedo's in
storage.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:16:30 -0400
Subject: Omega's and a heartbreaker

First, on the Omega thread... ever notice the first letters in
that body style?
Nova   (Chevy)
Omega  (Olds)
Ventura (Pontiac)
Appolo (Buick)

They spell "NOVA".  Think they planned it that way?

Second, a serious cash flow problem has forced me to sell my
'61 Super 88.  It's a Holiday Hardtop Sedan (4 door hardtop).
The body is nice and tight, all glass is there and not cracked.
I have the factory Olds manual, owner's manual and even an original
sales brochure if that will sweeten the deal.  It has only 59,000
miles on it, and runs/drives almost like new.  Nothing major wrong
with it.  Interior is in very fine condition with the exception of
the dash, which needs redone.  Seats were on perfect condition
before I put on the custom seat covers to protect them, so they
should still be in great shape.  Exterior is very good, with paint
thinning in spots (too many washings?), and a little surface rust
on the fuel flap door.  Back bumper needs rechroming (exhaust baked
off the chrome).  It can be seen on Bryceman's Olds Page....
 http://www.442.com/~king (I think).  Thought I'd offer it up to
the members of the Olds list first before putting ads in the
Dallas/Ft. Worth auto trader and the newspaper.  I'd love for it
to find a good home with an Oldsmobilephile if possible.  Haven't
deceided on a price yet.  Guess I'll check around and see what
offers I get.  One condition of sale....if I win the lottery, I get
to buy it back....hehe.
- --
=====================================================================
Jeffrey W. King (N5PNU)     Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
=====================================================================

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:01:20 -0400
Subject: Prolong

Hi all,

Has anyone had a chance to see the infomercial on Prolong?

Its an oil additive that touts some pretty amazing claims!

I'm not much on these addtitives, but this one really got my attention!
I'm half tempted to order it!  (:

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:13:17 -0400
Subject: Old's for sale.

     I just saw a couple of interesting Oldsmobiles for sale in the
local
     Wheel Deals.  The second one here is particularly interesting, I'm
     tempted to go see it myself.

     442 low miles.  black w/ gold package.  T-tops, loaded.  Last year
of
     442 (would that be '87?).  509-326-1049  $8600.  A bit expensive,
but
     the picture is gorgeous.

     '79 Olds Cutlass supreme.  19,000 original miles.  Like new
condition.
      350 V8 _factory_4_speed_ custom wheels, pin striping.  $4650
     208-687-2526.

     Has anyone ever seen a factory 4 speed in a '79 before?  The
picture
     looks good, I think it's dark blue w/ light blue vinyl top.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:50:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Old's for sale.

>     '79 Olds Cutlass supreme.  19,000 original miles.  Like new
condition. >      350 V8 _factory_4_speed_ custom wheels, pin striping.
$4650 >     208-687-2526. > >     Has anyone ever seen a factory 4
speed in a '79 before?

     4Speed Auto, perhaps?...  700R4, 2004R,  I'll stop before I hit
Lenco  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's

Last summer we had a 74
>Buick Apollo with the original Buick 455 in it. That car has since lost
its >life to the shredder...:)

Did the ~engine~ shred the car?  I have visions of pretzels when I think
of the stock subframes soaking up the grunt of our Big Blocks...   :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:50:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedometer

>Hey, I've got some indication that a non-PRNDSL speedo is, uh, rare
(for >lack of a better term...).  I got one today out of that '68
convertible.  It >was my last trip there before it gets crushed
tomorrow...  :-(  Anyway, is >the speedo rare?


My '67 98 Convert has that, too.  The gear indicator goes in a small
window just above the steering column.  They could have the PRNDSL for
the Hydromatic, and the Jetaway had the PRNDL, if I remember correctly.
My next donor (a '67 98 LS) is the same way, FWIW.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:22:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Prolong

Hey all and you too, Sparky:

I tried Duralube in my 72 Cutlass, which their infomercial was similar,
and I'm not sure, but may have unseated my rings (?). I don't know if
these super lubricants are good to run in older engines. One thing I did
see was improved performance from the stuff. I did see Prolong's
infomercial and it is impressive. Any other ideas would be welcome.


Katana72         It's Not your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!          Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:36:14 -0400
Subject: Test- Don't Waste your time reading this!!

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------------------------------

From: John and Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 06:19:46 -0400
Subject: Production Figures

Does anyone know of a place on the Web to find out production figures on
GM's? I've searched everywhere and haven't been able to find a site.

thanks.......j&r

------------------------------

From: mike <h07@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:50:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's (and Buick Apollo's)

Hi Jason,

I didn't know that the Buick Apollo came with a (Buick) 455, and I
and it isn't listed as an option in "Standard Catalog of American Cars."
Can you provide more details on how your '74 Apollo came with a 455.
>
>Wonder why Olds did not offer the 455 in the Omega? Last summer we had
a 74 >Buick Apollo with the original Buick 455 in it. That car has since
lost its
                       ------------------
>life to the shredder...:)

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT

------------------------------

From: mike <h07@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:50:20 -0400
Subject: Pontiac Ventura's (was Re: Omega's)

Has anyone ever seen the chase scene in the movie The 7up's?  Roy
Schneider is driving a 73-74 Pontiac Ventura, chasing the bad guys in
a 73-74? full size Pontiac?  (I would assume that Pontiac supplied the
cars for the movie).  I find the 7up chase scene to be more intense
than the chase scene from Bullet.

Also, I saw a very nice 1977 Ventura Sprint at the 1993 POCI nationals.
The car had a Trans Am style "shaker" hood and a rear spoiler that
appeared to be stock.  I can't find any reference to a Sprint option
or shaker hood on the Ventura in "Standard Catalog of American Cars".
Does anyone know about this car?

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:04:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Old's for sale.

>
>     4Speed Auto, perhaps?...  700R4, 2004R,  I'll stop before I hit
Lenco  :)

Many years ago I saw a '77 or so 442 in my town.  I distinctly remember
it having a manual because he ran he engine way up in the revs before
shifting.

I thought at some point a 5sp manual was available.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:09:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

At 06:19 AM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a place on the Web to find out production figures
on >GM's? I've searched everywhere and haven't been able to find a site. >
>thanks.......j&r > > I have some GM production figures, however they
are probably only Buick, and they are still at my old house.  I'm
moving, however, if you need some Buick data, I'll find that file and
make sure it gets here.

If you are looking for Oldsmobile, look in "Setting the Pace," as the
index has their figures.  So that's two.

New trivia questions.

1. What are the branded vehicle's GM produced; other than the usual,
Oldsmobile, Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac,    Cadillac and Oakland.  There
are a number of others?  Their own brand names, not special production
of some one else's brand.

2. From "Setting the Pace" when/why did Oldsmobile use Buick Dynaflow
transmissions for their A/T cars?

3. What vehicle did Cadillac build exclusively with a Chevrolet 283
engine?

4. What vehicle did GM produce during WWII in numbers greater than even
the Willys/Ford Jeep?  A hard one, what was the number one special
design consideration of this vehicle?

5. If you were riding in a product of GM Eastern division, what would it
be?

Cliff Feiler

P.S. I think I found a good 455 crankshaft, so now all I need is a pair
of rebuildable heads.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:12:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's (and Buick Apollo's)

At 11:50 AM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Jason,
>
>I didn't know that the Buick Apollo came with a (Buick) 455, and I
>and it isn't listed as an option in "Standard Catalog of American
Cars." >Can you provide more details on how your '74 Apollo came with a
455. >> >>Wonder why Olds did not offer the 455 in the Omega? Last
summer we had a 74 >>Buick Apollo with the original Buick 455 in it.
That car has since lost its >                       ------------------
>>life to the shredder...:) > >Mike Van Auken >'79 Starfire GT > > The
"Standard Catalog of Buick 1903-1990" does not list the 455 as an
option.  Only the Chevrolet 250 ci 6, and a Buick 350 ci V8.

Cliff Feiler

P.S. Sounds like that Apollo is re-engined!

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:12:38 -0400
Subject: Iraquibu update

I went back to the junkyard yesterday and got a price on the Iraquibu
parts. They said everything to change it over(pedals, linkage, clutch
fork, whatever else it might take) would be about $100.  If someone
wants the parts I can get them from the junkyard and run them to the
post office or UPS.  I'm in Blacksburg Virginia by the way, in case
someone wants to work out postage.  I'll also double check the year of
the car and make sure it's a `79 or so.  I couldn't really check the
condition of the parts since the car was on it's side, but I kinda doubt
the Iraquibu saw much speed shifting or heel-to-toe action. :)

I also picked up a 1.25 inch front sway bar for the Vista-Cruiser while
I was there.  It cost me $35.  It came from one of thoes
Smokey-and-the-Bandit Trans Ams.(circa 1977 I think) I couldn't tell
what suspension package it had but I used my vise grips and a tape
measure to find the width of the bar.  I figure if i don't like the ride
or handling change it makes I can allways put my old one back.  I find
it interesting that about 90% of the firebird/camaro/mustang cars at
that yard were either flipped or ran into a tree.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:39:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Jerk

>Greg,
>
>You are very nice to defend your room mate.
Well I wasn't neccesarily trying to defend anyone, I just thought
everyone would like to know why Will was being a jerk on our list.  I
didn't think he had to get so rude with us.  My roommate was the one who
pulled the prank, I think he went a little too far subscribing will to
30 listserves.

  I want to apologize about
>the shooting.  It looks like both he & I should look a little before we
 >leap. No apologies neccesary.  I'm sure I laughed the hardest at
that one. Besides, he didn't have to get that nasty.

> He did enjoy the chatting & Olds information, didn't he?  Not even a
>little bit?
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
I doubt he enjoyed it very much, but I guess we all have our flaws.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:07:59 -0400
Subject: Older Olds. Parts found!

Ok guys and gals, I've found a few things at the local "old cars" scrap
yard.
 I just had a chance this morning to go out there and look around for an
hour so I didn't get to see everything that may be out there.  (I knew
this place was there, and had alot of cars there, alot of late 50ish to
early 70's cars, etc. there.  And they don't crush stuff as far as I can
tell, since I noticed cars that were there since the last time I was
there, which was about 10 years ago when I was looking for parts to my
'63 Ford Galaxy.)  I did find a few things though, here they are.

First, I found two Olds 350 motors with what looked like fuel injection
manifolds on them, cid. was cast into the block, so they had to be '77
or newer.  There of course were quite a few Olds. 350 motors I found,
but I'm not sure about any other sizes, and I didn't "just find"
anything that was older in terms of motors, but I didn't have time to
look, and I'm sure there's some out there.  He said there were quite a
few late 60's/early 70's Cutlasses out there (half dozen or so), along
with a few wagons from that time frame, etc., so the older parts should
be there.

My main reason to go out there was to see if I could find some older
heads, etc. for a motor, but I found an '82 Calais w/ T-tops, 350,
center counsole, gauge pack, air, power windows.  I have been interested
in finding a guage pack for mine, and the center section to convert my
bech to buckets, etc., but with what I found, maybe mine will get sold,
and I'll build up this one, didn't have time to ask how much for the
whole car, or to check the car over good to make sure there are no
"major detriments", etc., cause I would really love to have T-tops on
the car.

There's more here than I can go through, or could identify in a short
period of time, otherwise I'd list off some of the stuff I could find.
So, question is...  anybody nearby looking for some parts, or is curious
to see what's here, care to spend a Saturday digging around (open 9-5
Mon. thru Sat.), obviously before it gets cold, etc.  I live in the area
about 80 miles west of Chicago, Il. near Beloit, Wis., and the place is
nearby.  If anybody wants to do so, drop me a line one way or another,
and we'll set it up, maybe even a group of people.

Chris Ruper
CRuper1@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:31:08 -0400
Subject: Re: hard starting

Roger, I had similar symptoms when I had the 2-barrel carb on my car. In
 playing with it I discovered that the choke rod could be adjusted by
gently bending it to give a little more choke - that is, getting the
butterfly flap to close up the opening of the carb a bit more when the
choke gets set - and it would start much easier. This seems finicky,
especially on 2-barrels. A small adjustment here goes a long way so try
it in stages if you decide to give it a go. I'm assuming of course that
there is no obvious other problem with wires, plugs, fuel, etc. As for
the oil light, if you've had to crank it for a while it will build up
enough pressure so as to not trip the sending unit, so I don't think
that should be a concern.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Roger M. Borlase wrote:
> I'm some trouble with my wagon.  Its been hard starting it lately due
to the > cold weather.  When I start it, I set the choke by pressing
the accelarator > and turn in over.  It sounds like it going to start
and then doesn't.  I do > this a couple more timres and finally without
pressing on the gas, it will > start and run for a few seconds.  After
this it runs fine.  Is the choke set > to lean or the engine being
flooded? > > I've also noticed the oil light doesn't come back on after
each attempt.  Is > this something to worry about?

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:34:12 -0400
Subject: '65 425

There's a local junkyard here with a complete 1965 Olds 425 engine
(including air cleaner!).  I haven't taken a close look at it to check
casting #'2, etc, but could if anybody is interested.  They want $300
for it, because it a Good Engine.

Anybody interested?
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: hard starting

>I'm assuming of course that
>there is no obvious other problem with wires, plugs, fuel, etc. As for
>the oil light, if you've had to crank it for a while it will build up
>enough pressure so as to not trip the sending unit, so I don't think
that >should be a concern.

Where I live they use reformulated gas.  I generraly use 93 octane in it
and I topped the tank off yesterday.  Man that was expensive.  The
wires, plugs, points, rotor and cap were done last August.  So was the
timing and dwell. The carb was rebuilt in October after a little
engine fire.  The choke was not set at this time.  I wonder if the fire
messed up the choke coil or something else.  But it ran great all
summer, often out running Explorers and Snaabs.


I almost T-boned a cop yesterday.  The pinhead turned right in front of
me when I was doing 50 in a 30.  All he did was wave his hand down.  I
don't think he was running radar at the time. :-)  I guess being hit by
2 tons of steel wouldn't "make his day."

On the oil thing, Gregg emailed me that 350 engines in '72 used nylon
coated gears and as the nylon wears, the nylon clogs the oil pickup.
Anybody else heard of this?

Thanks,

Roger

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:30:10 -0400
Subject: Re: hard starting

>On the oil thing, Gregg emailed me that 350 engines in '72 used nylon
coated >gears and as the nylon wears, the nylon clogs the oil pickup.
Anybody else >heard of this? >Roger

Yes, if your car *still* has the original timing gear and chain, the
nylon teeth are probably broken off.  The original gears were, uh,
aluminum, I think, with a nylon covering on the teeth (to quiet the
gears, maybe?).  The nylon will break off in chunks, not just wear off.
The chunks will clog up the oil pump pickup.  When I replaced my oil
pump a year ago the pickup was full of these pieces.  They had broken
off of the original gear, which had been replaced many years before. -
-- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:39:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Pontiac Ventura's (was Re: Omega's)

On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, mike wrote:
> ...chase scene in the movie The 7up's?...more intense than the
> chase scene from Bullet.  <Much snipping, obviously>

Perhaps, but Bullitt was the original BIG chase scene, something
never done before, and this one is a couple of decades newer. For
those who do not know, Bullitt starred Steve McQueen...ok, starred
a 68 Charger 440 and a 68 Mustang 390 GT.  The bad guys were in
the Charger and the scenes were shot on a road in California that
had been repaired (or was new) and not yet open to traffic.  Set
the world on it's nose at the time.  BTW, the 390 had to be modi-
fied to stay ahead of the Charger.

OK, now for some Olds stuff so I won't get kicked in the butt...
Is there anything on a Firenza that has any value?  I found one
with all glass, spoiler is wrinkled (aren't they all) and an
automatic.  What would be unusual enough to try and get.  I can
buy any part off of it...maybe over Thanksgiving.

dj

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:26:56 -0400
Subject: Car Acronyms List (Long)

Hey, I'm alive and on the digest until I can get my mailbox down to
under 500 entries.

I noticed car acronyms was again a subject of conversation, so I'm
posting my collection.


ACURA
        Awful,Crappy,Unreliable, Rusty Automobile
        Automobile Causes Unusual Road Accidents
        All Cars Usually Require Adjustment
        Any Child Understands Real Automobiles
        Another Case of a Useless Requested Acronym?

AMC
	A Moving Catastrophe

AUDI
        Accelerates Under Demonic Influence
	Always Unsafe Designs Implemented

BMW
        Babbling Mechanical Wench
        Bad Motor Works
	Beastly Monstrous Wonder
        Beautiful Masterpieces on Wheels
        Beautiful Mechanical Wonder
        Big Money Waste
        Big Money Works
        Blasphemous Motorized Wreck
        Born Moderately Wealthy.
        Break My Windows
        Broken Money Waster
        Broken Monstrous Wonder
        Brutal Money Waster
        Bumbling Mechanical Wretch
        Big Money Waster
        Blasphemized Motorized Wreck
        Bastard Money Wielders
	Bought My Wife
	Brutal Money Waster

BUICK
        Beat Up Iranian Cookie Cutter
	Big Ugly Import Car Killer
        Big Ugly Indestructible Car Killer
        Built Under Inspection of Cooky Korean

CAMARO
        Can't America Make A Real One?

CHEVROLET
        Car Has Extensive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips.
        Crappy Hot-Running Engines, Very Rusted Out, Lose Every Time
	Cracked Head, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
	Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
	Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time

CHEVY
        Cheapest Heap Ever enVisioned Yet

CHRYSLER
        Car Having Really Yucky Stupid Lazy Engine Runs
        Could Have Remained Your Sickly Lame Elderly Relative's

CITROEN
        Crap Interior Terrible Road-holding Owned Entirely by Nutters

DODGE
        Damn Old Dirty Gas Eater
	Dead or Dying Gorilla Excretment
	Dying Garbage Emitter
        Drips Oil, Drops Grease, Everywhere

DATSUN
        Detroit's Angry Towards Sneaky Unscrupulous Nips

FIAT
        Failure in Automotive Technology
        Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation
        Fix It Again Tony?
        Fix It All the Time
	Found in a Toilet

FORD
	Failed On Race Day
	First On Race Day
        First On Recall Day
        Fix Or Repair Daily
        Found on road dead
        Found On Russian Dump
	Fraternal Order of Restored DeSoto's
	F..king Old Rambler Discard
	F*#@$%! On Raw Deal
	F*#@$%! Owner Really Dumb
        (backwards) Driver Returns On Foot
	F***** Over Rated Disaster
	F****** Old Rebuilt Dodge
	F***, Our Ride Died
	First On Rust and Deterioration
	Fast Only Rolling Downhill
	Features O.J. and Ron's DNA

GM
	General Maintenance

GMC
        Garage Man's Companion
        Generally Mediocre Cars
        Got More Crap
        Got Mechanic Coming
	Great Mountain Climber

GTO
	Gas, Tires, Oil
	Get Tires Out
	Get Those Orders
	Gone To Olds

HONDA
        Had One Never Did Again
	Helping Out Nips Destroying America
        How Odd - No Damn Acceleration
        Hell Of a Nice Damn Automobile

HYUNDAI
	Hope You Understand Nothing's Drivable And Inexpensive

IROC
	Idiot Riding On Credit
	It's Really Only a Camaro
	Italian Retard On Cocaine

ISUZU
	God Bless You <g>

JEEP
        Junk Electrical and Emissions Parts
        Jump Excitedly in Every Pothole.
        Jinxed Engine has Extra Parts
        Jumps Everything Ever Parked

MAZDA
        Making A Zillion Dollars Annually
        Model All Zoids Drive Aimlessly
	Most Always Zipping Dangerously Along

MG
	Mashed Genitals

MOPAR
        Mostly Old Parts And Rust
        Mitsubishi's Over Priced American Replicars

NISSAN
        Now In Some Shitty Automobile Nightmare
        Nasty Import Sucks Savings Away to Nippon
	Now In Stupid Shape, Always Nasty

OLDSMOBILE
        Oh Look Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking
Everything
        Old Loose Dented Sheet Metal Outdated By Infamies Like Edsel
        Old Ladies Driving Slow making Others Behind Infuriatingly Late
Everyday
	Overpriced, Leisurely Driven Sedan Made Of Buick's Irregular Leftover
Equipment

OPEL
	Oh Please, Engine Live

PINTO
        Put In New Transmission Often

PLYMOUTH
        Please Let Your Mother Out <from> Under The Hood!
	Please Let Your Mechanic Operate Under The Hood

PONTIAC
        Poor Old Nitwit Thinks Its A Cadillac
	Pile Of Nuts Thrown In A Can
	Power Options Terrorize Indian's Antiquated Competition

PORSCHE
        Puts Out Really Smoky Carbonate Hazardous Emissions
        Phased Out Racer-Still Can't Hold Engine
        Pulled Over Regularly So Cops Have Enough

RENAULT
        Retarded Engine No Acceleration Ugly Lump of Trash

SAAB
        Send Another Automobile Back
	Society of Assnine Automotive Bacteriologists
	Swedish Automobile - Always Broken

STP
	Stop Those Pistons

SUBARU
        Send Undercover Boat And Radioactive Uranium

TOYOTA
        Taking Our Yen Out -- Thanks All
	Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto

TRIUMPH
        The Risk Involving Useless Machinery Pays Heavily

VW
        Very Worthless
	Virtually Worthless


-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible
.^. lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________
/9|8\ (810) 825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |
\}|{/ Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=
v

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:59:39 -0400
Subject: Re:

> Well, I don't believe the GEN light has a "sender", per se.  The
voltage > regulator seems to determine when the bulb lights, but it is
very difficult > to try and decipher the circuit for it (at least from
the wiring diagrams > I've seen).  Mine isn't lit fully.  Brighter when
the gas tank is empty, > dimmer when full, but never fully lit.  It also
gets brighter when the > emergency brake is depressed and the BRAKE
light comes on. > > Dave Paulison

It sounds like the GEN light is getting grounded by those other circuits
when they are activated.  All the warning lights normally receive power,
but light only when the sender associated with them grounds.  Or the
mysterious thing in the regulator in this case.  Since the GEN light,
BRAKE light and fuel gauge are all on the same printed circuit board,
the false ground is probably coming from there.  Try cleaning the back
of it, inspecting it for corrosion, and removing, cleaning, and
re-installing the harness connectors and light bulb "holders".

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:41:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Car Acronyms List (Long)

At 06:26 PM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, I'm alive and on the digest until I can get my mailbox down to
>under 500 entries.
>
>I noticed car acronyms was again a subject of conversation, so I'm
>posting my collection.
>
>
>ACURA
>        Awful,Crappy,Unreliable, Rusty Automobile
>        Automobile Causes Unusual Road Accidents
>        All Cars Usually Require Adjustment
>        Any Child Understands Real Automobiles
>        Another Case of a Useless Requested Acronym?
>
>AMC
>	A Moving Catastrophe
>
>AUDI
>        Accelerates Under Demonic Influence
>	Always Unsafe Designs Implemented
>
>BMW
>        Babbling Mechanical Wench
>        Bad Motor Works
>	Beastly Monstrous Wonder
>        Beautiful Masterpieces on Wheels
>        Beautiful Mechanical Wonder
>        Big Money Waste
>        Big Money Works
>        Blasphemous Motorized Wreck
>        Born Moderately Wealthy.
>        Break My Windows
>        Broken Money Waster
>        Broken Monstrous Wonder
>        Brutal Money Waster
>        Bumbling Mechanical Wretch
>        Big Money Waster
>        Blasphemized Motorized Wreck
>        Bastard Money Wielders
>	Bought My Wife
>	Brutal Money Waster
>
>BUICK
>        Beat Up Iranian Cookie Cutter
>	Big Ugly Import Car Killer
>        Big Ugly Indestructible Car Killer
>        Built Under Inspection of Cooky Korean
>
>CAMARO
>        Can't America Make A Real One?
>
>CHEVROLET
>        Car Has Extensive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips.
>        Crappy Hot-Running Engines, Very Rusted Out, Lose Every Time
>	Cracked Head, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
>	Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
>	Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time
>
>CHEVY
>        Cheapest Heap Ever enVisioned Yet
>
>CHRYSLER
>        Car Having Really Yucky Stupid Lazy Engine Runs
>        Could Have Remained Your Sickly Lame Elderly Relative's
>
>CITROEN
>        Crap Interior Terrible Road-holding Owned Entirely by Nutters
>
>DODGE
>        Damn Old Dirty Gas Eater
>	Dead or Dying Gorilla Excretment
>	Dying Garbage Emitter
>        Drips Oil, Drops Grease, Everywhere
>
>DATSUN
>        Detroit's Angry Towards Sneaky Unscrupulous Nips
>
>FIAT
>        Failure in Automotive Technology
>        Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation
>        Fix It Again Tony?
>        Fix It All the Time
>	Found in a Toilet
>
>FORD
>	Failed On Race Day
>	First On Race Day
>        First On Recall Day
>        Fix Or Repair Daily
>        Found on road dead
>        Found On Russian Dump
>	Fraternal Order of Restored DeSoto's
>	F..king Old Rambler Discard
>	F*#@$%! On Raw Deal
>	F*#@$%! Owner Really Dumb
>        (backwards) Driver Returns On Foot
>	F***** Over Rated Disaster
>	F****** Old Rebuilt Dodge
>	F***, Our Ride Died
>	First On Rust and Deterioration
>	Fast Only Rolling Downhill
>	Features O.J. and Ron's DNA
>
>GM
>	General Maintenance
>
>GMC
>        Garage Man's Companion
>        Generally Mediocre Cars
>        Got More Crap
>        Got Mechanic Coming
>	Great Mountain Climber
>
>GTO
>	Gas, Tires, Oil
>	Get Tires Out
>	Get Those Orders
>	Gone To Olds
>
>HONDA
>        Had One Never Did Again
>	Helping Out Nips Destroying America
>        How Odd - No Damn Acceleration
>        Hell Of a Nice Damn Automobile
>
>HYUNDAI
>	Hope You Understand Nothing's Drivable And Inexpensive
>
>IROC
>	Idiot Riding On Credit
>	It's Really Only a Camaro
>	Italian Retard On Cocaine
>
>ISUZU
>	God Bless You <g>
>
>JEEP
>        Junk Electrical and Emissions Parts
>        Jump Excitedly in Every Pothole.
>        Jinxed Engine has Extra Parts
>        Jumps Everything Ever Parked
>
>MAZDA
>        Making A Zillion Dollars Annually
>        Model All Zoids Drive Aimlessly
>	Most Always Zipping Dangerously Along
>
>MG
>	Mashed Genitals
>
>MOPAR
>        Mostly Old Parts And Rust
>        Mitsubishi's Over Priced American Replicars
>
>NISSAN
>        Now In Some Shitty Automobile Nightmare
>        Nasty Import Sucks Savings Away to Nippon
>	Now In Stupid Shape, Always Nasty
>
>OLDSMOBILE
>        Oh Look Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking
Everything >        Old Loose Dented Sheet Metal Outdated By Infamies
Like Edsel >        Old Ladies Driving Slow making Others Behind
Infuriatingly Late >Everyday >	Overpriced, Leisurely Driven Sedan Made
Of Buick's Irregular Leftover >Equipment > >OPEL >	Oh Please, Engine
Live > >PINTO >        Put In New Transmission Often > >PLYMOUTH >
Please Let Your Mother Out <from> Under The Hood! >	Please Let Your
Mechanic Operate Under The Hood > >PONTIAC >        Poor Old
Nitwit Thinks Its A Cadillac >	Pile Of Nuts Thrown In A Can 
>	Power
Options Terrorize Indian's Antiquated Competition > >PORSCHE >
Puts Out Really Smoky Carbonate Hazardous Emissions >        Phased Out
Racer-Still Can't Hold Engine >        Pulled Over Regularly So Cops
Have Enough > >RENAULT >        Retarded Engine No Acceleration Ugly
Lump of Trash > >SAAB >        Send Another Automobile Back
>	Society of Assnine Automotive Bacteriologists >	Swedish 
Automobile -
Always Broken > >STP >	Stop Those Pistons > >SUBARU >        Send
Undercover Boat And Radioactive Uranium > >TOYOTA >        Taking Our
Yen Out -- Thanks All >	Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto > 
>TRIUMPH >
The Risk Involving Useless Machinery Pays Heavily > >VW >
Very Worthless >	Virtually Worthless > >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---- - ----- >Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible
.^. >lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________
/9|8\ >(810) 825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |
\}|{/ >Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=
v > > > This IS looking more like a book every day.

The Wizkid

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:50:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Car Acronyms List (Long)

C.R.F. wrote:
> At 06:26 PM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hey, I'm alive and on the digest until I can get my mailbox down to
> >under 500 entries.

                    BLAH-BLAH-BLAH...

Hey guys, can we edit these replies a bit?  It really
isn't necessary to resend these entire (long) posts.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:28:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Omega's (and Buick Apollo's)

At 11:50 AM 11/16/96 -0400, mike wrote:
>Hi Jason,
>
>I didn't know that the Buick Apollo came with a (Buick) 455, and I
>and it isn't listed as an option in "Standard Catalog of American
Cars." >Can you provide more details on how your '74 Apollo came with a
455.

Can't tell you more as it wasn't mine. It was in our junkyard. It may
have been a Pontiac Ventura, can't recall. It was a 455 though, vin and
block checked out ok. Interchange manual confirmed the numbers. - - - -
- - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:25:40 -0400
Subject: FREE FREE FREE Parts

OK this is what I have, Stripping an 67 delta 88.

The seats (bench)have no rips at all.
The carpet(god forbid anyone would want it) is self renueing (mold)
The dash came out ok and all the gauges are intact and work
Crank wing and side windows
The trim around the ft win is intact and a lovely shade of cream..
The grill looks to be ok and the turn signal trim is all there (four
layers) All the wheel well trim is ok, want the entire front wheel well?
The gas tank is going to be yanked and will join the 98's in a pile
should anyone want it All I need of the doors is the outer skin and I
would consider another bent door in trade. Still have the windows out of
the 66 98 and expect to get them out intact from the 67 88 also The
beastie had air so did the 98, any I still have both. Heater box will
come out nicely if anyone wants it, if not Hatchet Time! Still have the
grill and head light assembly out of the 66 98 also the t lights, a
little worse for the ware. I am just intirely gutting this thing so send
in requests, I am not above trading and am looking for a disk setup that
would fit the 67 88 Anyone want fr drums? I've got 5 Also any in
formation about the worth of a Buick 430 would be aprecated, runs but
really needs a tune up. I really don't want to see the trim and things
go to the dump again and could be talked down to COD for shipping.
Kenneth

PS:  I am looking for sponsors for this Olds we race.  Just think of a
classic Olds punching through an impala, does my heart good...

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:43:56 -0400
Subject: Re: hard starting

>On the oil thing, Gregg emailed me that 350 engines in '72 used nylon
coated >gears and as the nylon wears, the nylon clogs the oil pickup.
Anybody else >heard of this?

     Yeah, but I bet there were a lot more than 350 that sufferred!!!
:) Seriously, though, I've seen this often.  My 350 had a similar fate
when all the internal block paint flaked off and ended there instead :(
Wouldn't have made a difference, as it turns out, but it did drop the
pressure considerably...  The years were a lot more than just '72, also,
say from the days of Noah, till the second coming of christ...  (Sorry
about any religious content...)  I missed the beginning posts of this
thread.  If the engine is old enough that the gears are coming apart,
odds are good enough that a low oil pressure problem could well be
bearings, instead.  I've seen cracked teeth that can stay on the gear
forever (somehow!) Hope this helps a bit...



      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:06:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

....If you're getting 110 MPG out of your 442 I
>think you just solved the world's energy problems single handedly :)

     Yeah, and more of an arguement to get our '98 442 on the production
line!!!  (Hiedi, Think the Olds higher-ups would buy that arguement???)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:51:14 -0400
Subject: Re: JL pace cars and W-31 distributors

In a message dated 96-11-15 03:58:52 EST, you write:

<< Whats your price on the JL cars?  Might be interested (& I will reply
either way)
  >>
The price tag on the JL original color pace cars is 80.00.  Thanks for
the inquire.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:07:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Points - HEI Conversions, PHR 1/97

At 05:17 PM 11/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>If have already or plan to swap to an HEI, read this
>>article!  FWIW both of our cars have been converted to timing modified
HEIs >>and they are great ignitions. >>Bob Handren > >I would like to
switch sometime soon.  I want to keep my stock air cleaner. >Anybody
know if the HEI distributor will fit under a stock '69 350 4bbl air
>cleaner? >-- Well on my 67, it does not fit. I don't know if the air
cleaners are the same size or not.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:37:55 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Omega's


...they're not commonly made into performance cars because they lack a
full frame...

          Ahh, here's where that Chevy relationship comes in handy.
There
          are lots of aftermarket subframe connectors available for the
          Nova which will obviously bolt in to an Omega also.

          Note to Jason:  I'd be really surprised to find out that the
          Apollo in your yard came with that 455 from the factory.
After
          all, the hottest Nova was the SS396 (Yenko and Nickey
excepted),
          and that was only made in 69-70, if I remember correctly.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Big blocks and 4 speeds

...I have destroyed a few transmission mounts until I went with a solid
mount from Mr.Gasket in 1974. I go through rear control arm bushings
fairly often. I also have replaced a few input shafts and counter gears
since 1973. The weakest link seems to be the Muncie 4 speed....

          Just out of curiosity, how is this car normally used?  Do
          you drag race often?  My experience has been that my street
          tires will break loose before doing physical damage to the
          car.  Of course, that just means I need more tire!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Brad Otto <BradOtto@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:29:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance times

At 03:01 PM 11/15/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Brad Otto wrote:
>
>> There is a 2 charachter code stamped on the backside of the right
axle >> housing of the rear end.  This code will tell you what ratio the
rear end is >> and whether or not it is posi. > >Excuse for my
ignorance, since I am not that mechanically inclined, >would >I be able
to get under my car, please no jokes :-), and look up and to >the >right
of the differential see a 2 character code? > >Chris Sparks > > Chris,

That's correct.  More than likely you'll have to clean and/or sand
lightly the axle tube to find the stamping.  A lot of the time the
stamping impression is upside down.  Let me know what you find.

Brad
'69 442

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:53:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu update

>I went back to the junkyard yesterday and got a price on the Iraquibu
parts. >They said everything to change it over(pedals, linkage, clutch
fork, >whatever else it might take) would be about $100.

I'll put second dibbs on 'em!  (I didn't see a first, but I'm broke
right now, so I'll give someone else a chance first!)  I'm interested,
tho.  Is that a "they-pull-um" price?   Ya know, it's really too bad we
can't e-mail those things too!  :)
     If you plan to get back there, and no one else has gotten them yet,
let me know, 'cuz I'd be easily talked into it  :)
     Later...


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:49:46 -0400
Subject: Re: FREE FREE FREE Parts

 I am not above
>trading and am looking for a disk setup that would fit the 67 88

     Will a '70 work?  I don't recall offhand.  I've got 'em...

I've got a '67 98 needing plenty of parts someday.  I'm not sure offhand
about body/grill differences between the 88/98.  I may be interested in
some of the stuff, tho.  I'll figure out more when I have a bit more
time.

>PS:  I am looking for sponsors for this Olds we race.  Just think of a
>classic Olds punching through an impala, does my heart good...

     Hmph...  I see ~that~ everyday!!!  :)  ~DOES~ feel great, though,
doesn't it?! :)

     Later...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@opihi.ohana.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

The story on AV gas that I've heard is that it lacks the additives to
keep the valves/seats propperly lubricated (kind of like the
unleaded-with-nonhardened seats).  Yes you could make do with a stronger
spark as you increase octane.  The fix I've heard is to run a small
amount of 2 stroke oil with your AV gas.  The reason I call this a
"story" is because as far as I know, AV gas contains high levels of lead
(compared to gasoline) which Is part of the reason for its higher
octane, even with the low-lead type, the low-lead is all relative to
other AV gasses.  So why it would not lubricate the guides and seats is
a little puzzling.  Anyone else?

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:26:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

At 11:09 AM 11/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>New trivia questions.

Ah, good, I'm starting to look forward to these...

>1. What are the branded vehicle's GM produced; other than the usual,
>Oldsmobile, Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac,    Cadillac and Oakland.  There
are a >number of others?  Their own brand names, not special production
of some one >else's brand.

Hmmm, LaSalle, GM (the new Impact), GMC, Saturn, Geo (no, I'm not proud
of it either, but GM actually produces the cars in that NUMMI plant),
and going overseas, we have Opel and Holden (Australia and South
Africa). What else was there?

Oh, if you're talking about the early years, don't you have Elmore,
Cartercar, Marquette, Welch, and the truckmakers Rapid, Randolph and
Reliance, which were all folded into GMC.

>2. From "Setting the Pace" when/why did Oldsmobile use Buick Dynaflow
>transmissions for their A/T cars?

Their own Hydramatic plant burnt down, and the customers demanded
self-shifting cars from Oldsmobile.

>3. What vehicle did Cadillac build exclusively with a Chevrolet 283
engine?

??? I have no clue on this one... Let's see, what did Cadillac make
between 1957 and 1962 that they would put such a motor into...Nope,
drawing a blank.

>4. What vehicle did GM produce during WWII in numbers greater than even
the >Willys/Ford Jeep?  A hard one, what was the number one special
design >consideration of this vehicle?

Not the amphibious DUKW ("duck")? They didn't make that many of those.
Was it the 4wd trucks?

>5. If you were riding in a product of GM Eastern division, what would
it be?

A twain, you siwwy wabbit....

>Cliff Feiler
>
>P.S. I think I found a good 455 crankshaft, so now all I need is a pair
of >rebuildable heads.

Hmmm, I'd like to help you out, but I'm trying to use my head at the
moment... (though it could use rebuilding... ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:26:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Pontiac Ventura's (was Re: Omega's)

At 10:50 AM 11/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>Also, I saw a very nice 1977 Ventura Sprint at the 1993 POCI nationals.
>The car had a Trans Am style "shaker" hood and a rear spoiler that
>appeared to be stock.  I can't find any reference to a Sprint option
>or shaker hood on the Ventura in "Standard Catalog of American Cars".
>Does anyone know about this car?

Maybe not on a '77 Ventura Sprint, but the '74 "GTO" was based on the
Ventura, which had a T/A-style shaker hood, so its factory hood and
scoop would fit that '77 and look stock. Who knows, though, maybe
Pontiac dusted off the tooling, or had some parts left over from the
'74's and put them on the '77's; they did that with their Can Am/Grand
Am cars, didn't they?

Though it would probably look wierd, the 403 block in my Electra came
from a T/A, so I thought it might just be appropriate to stick one of
those shakers on there...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight time!!!

At 09:41 PM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The story on AV gas that I've heard is that it lacks the additives to
keep >the valves/seats propperly lubricated (kind of like the
>unleaded-with-nonhardened seats).  Yes you could make do with a
stronger >spark as you increase octane.  The fix I've heard is to run a
small amount >of 2 stroke oil with your AV gas.  The reason I call this
a "story" is >because as far as I know, AV gas contains high levels of
lead (compared to >gasoline) which Is part of the reason for its higher
octane, even with the >low-lead type, the low-lead is all relative to
other AV gasses.  So why it >would not lubricate the guides and seats is
a little puzzling.  Anyone >else? > Paul,

I think av gas is low lead, and I think it always was.  And this does
not necessarily mean no lead.  During WWII, conventional automotive
vehicles were routinely fueled with av gas on airfields.  It was
available, and evidentally easier to find than the ordinary automotive
type.  I would expect that a B17 or a B24 would use several thousands of
gallons on a bombing mission to Germany.

The Army's mechnical people discovered what today is known as valve
recession.  They though they were experiencing "burned valves" and in an
attempt to ellivate the problem they issued directives to the effect
that no av gas would be used in the automotive equipment.  But then they
used what they had, and it was often av gas anyway.  The av motors were
apparently low lead motors, and the cars and trucks were high lead
motors.

There are additives added to gasoline, and the additive that was once
added to gasoline that lubricated the valves best was lead.

Even today I would expect that av gas would be of too little lead to
prevent valve recession.

The principal difference between 80/87 av gas and 80/87 auto gas is that
av gas is blended so that it will not boil at high altitude.  Most of
the other characteristics are pretty much the same.  I have a neighbor
that routinely burns automotive no-lead gasoline in his Cessna.  It is
about 1/2 the price, and works just fine as long as he stays relatively
low.  If he were to go to 30,000 or 40,000 feet (I doubt he could,
but...) he would find his fuel boiling off.  As I recall it is a point
relative to the vapor pressure and temperature.  I've been away from the
oil business too long, to remember exactly.

Don't use any kind of motor oil in your fuel.  All you are doing is
reducing the relative octane, and that is what you bought the av gas for
in the first place, and it will have dubious value as a libricant in
such small quantities.  Gasoline is a very poor lubricant.  Run some in
a diesel engine, and the fuel system will freeze from the lack of
lubrication, that #2 distilate provides, ie, ordinary diesel fuel.

That remark, a few days ago, about av gas causing holes to be burned
thru the tops of pistons is a bit perplexing, I really doubt it, but I
expect that anything is possible.  Detonation is the main cause of of
problems in the combustion chamber, and it is eleviated by high octane
fuel.  Also lead adds octane, as do some analine products.  Remember the
red color of old leaded gasoline; that was an analine dye, added to
improve the octane number.

As far as the spark is concerned, HET ignition should provide a more
than adequate spark regardless of the octane number of the fuel being
consumed. That spark is several times hotter than the spark that came
from breaker point ignitions.  In a breaker point distributor the input
voltage was reduced, after starting, to keep the points from burning.
There is a ballast resistor in the ignition circuits of many cars, so
that after it heats up, assuming the engine is running, the input
voltage to the coil is reduced; saving the points.  HET keeps the
voltage high.  One of my uncles bought a car with HET ignition (when it
was brand new) and had us look thru it, after about 80,000 miles, he was
still getting a satisfactory start; and had never changed the plugs.
When the plugs were removed, you could not see the end of the central
electrode; it had burned back so far, yet the car started easily, ran
OK, and the spark had to be jumping half an inch or so. This is a little
simplistic about spark characteristics, but is approximately typical.

Also, if anyone has and additional data about gasoline, I would like to
read it.

When lead was added to gasoline, it improved octane number so much that
compression ratios came up dramatically.  Its lubricating propertys were
also discovered.  One vast improvment in valve trains came when they
designed to valve operation to rotate the valve slightly at each
opening. This, along with the lead, nearly eliminated premature valve
problems. Years ago, valves needed to be reseated several times in
100,000 miles, today, they can go several times that.

One last thought.  We overhauled an old six cylinder Dodge truck, in the
mid '70s and our machine shop man sent the valves out to be aluminum
plated on the heads.  They worked for many years without trouble with
no-lead gasoline, in a farily old (1949 I think) engine.  Aluminum and
some other materials added to a pre-no-lead engine can give very good
life to leaded gas engines.  It is simple, and cheap.  However, you
cannot grind the valves, and replace them without again plating them.

Cliff Feiler
Oldsmobilist

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 23:06:21 -0400
Subject: RE: Pontiac Ventura's (was Re: Omega's)

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- ----------
From: 	Dennis W Johnson[SMTP:dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu]
Sent: 	Saturday, November 16, 1996 2:39 PM
To: 	mike
Cc: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Pontiac Ventura's (was Re: Omega's)

On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, mike wrote:
> ...chase scene in the movie The 7up's?...more intense than the
> chase scene from Bullet.  <Much snipping, obviously>

Perhaps, but Bullitt was the original BIG chase scene, something
never done before, and this one is a couple of decades newer. For
those who do not know, Bullitt starred Steve McQueen...ok, starred
a 68 Charger 440 and a 68 Mustang 390 GT.  The bad guys were in
the Charger and the scenes were shot on a road in California that
had been repaired (or was new) and not yet open to traffic.  Set
the world on it's nose at the time.  BTW, the 390 had to be modi-
fied to stay ahead of the Charger.

OK, now for some Olds stuff so I won't get kicked in the butt...
Is there anything on a Firenza that has any value?  I found one
with all glass, spoiler is wrinkled (aren't they all) and an
automatic.  What would be unusual enough to try and get.  I can
buy any part off of it...maybe over Thanksgiving.

dj

I forgot to add...a 55/56 Buick/Olds rear window.  $35.  It is in a
Buick but they are the same glass.  How about a rear window
that is currently in a 61 Olds 4-door, 88.  Car is all there, minus
engine/trans but I didn't pay much attention to it.  Trunk lid is
good too, as I recall.  Same price as others.  Parts are in South
Dakota...and me too!
dj...but not for long, I am going to the Corvette museum on my
way south to see my bro in Miami!!!

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------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 23:18:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

At 10:26 PM 11/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 11:09 AM 11/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
>[snip]
>>New trivia questions.
>
>Ah, good, I'm starting to look forward to these...
>
>>1. What are the branded vehicle's GM produced; other than the usual,
>>Oldsmobile, Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac,    Cadillac and Oakland.  There
are a >>number of others?  Their own brand names, not special production
of some one >>else's brand. > >Hmmm, LaSalle, GM (the new Impact), GMC,
Saturn, Geo (no, I'm not proud of >it either, but GM actually produces
the cars in that NUMMI plant), and going >overseas, we have Opel and
Holden (Australia and South Africa). What else >was there? > >Oh, if
you're talking about the early years, don't you have Elmore, >Cartercar,
Marquette, Welch, and the truckmakers Rapid, Randolph and >Reliance,
which were all folded into GMC. > >>2. From "Setting the Pace" when/why
did Oldsmobile use Buick Dynaflow >>transmissions for their A/T cars? >
>Their own Hydramatic plant burnt down, and the customers demanded
>self-shifting cars from Oldsmobile. > >>3. What vehicle did Cadillac
build exclusively with a Chevrolet 283 engine? > >??? I have no clue on
this one... Let's see, what did Cadillac make between >1957 and 1962
that they would put such a motor into...Nope, drawing a blank. > >>4.
What vehicle did GM produce during WWII in numbers greater than even the
>>Willys/Ford Jeep?  A hard one, what was the number one special design
>>consideration of this vehicle? > >Not the amphibious DUKW ("duck")?
They didn't make that many of those. Was >it the 4wd trucks? > >>5. If
you were riding in a product of GM Eastern division, what would it be? >
>A twain, you siwwy wabbit.... > >>Cliff Feiler >> >>P.S. I think I
found a good 455 crankshaft, so now all I need is a pair of
>>rebuildable heads. > >Hmmm, I'd like to help you out, but I'm trying
to use my head at the >moment... (though it could use rebuilding... ;) >
>----------- >- Bob Barry >- 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme
SX (the 455 big-block boys) >- 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds
SMALL-block powered!) > > > > Bob did an excellent job on question one,
although there are more.  Hit No. 2 right on the head.  And gave up on
the others.

So keep trying, and I may be able to think up some more.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:08:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Production Figures

In a message dated 96-11-16 11:12:20 EST, you write:

> New trivia questions.
>
>  1. What are the branded vehicle's GM produced; other than the usual,
>  Oldsmobile, Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac,    Cadillac and Oakland.
There are a >  number of others?  Their own brand names, not special
production of some one >  else's brand.

Viking, the sister division to Oldsmobile,
Marquette, the sister division to Buick,
LaSalle, the sister division to Cadillac
I'm assuming GMC doesn't count?

>
>  2. From "Setting the Pace" when/why did Oldsmobile use Buick Dynaflow
>  transmissions for their A/T cars?

Because of the 1953 fire at the HydraMatic plant.  Straight shift
production went up considerably that year.

Paul

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #369
********************************
 
