
oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 11 December 1996    Volume 01 : Number 399


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:37:01 -0400
Subject: Winter Storage (Again!?)

        I have a '68 Cutlass Convertible that I just bought this summer and
need to store it outside the winter. The car needs some body work,new paint
and a new canvas top sometime in the future,(You mean when you get some
money?). I know that Tim and Dr. Bob, here with me in New England, are
enjoying our first real snowfall of this season.
        What I want to ask the folks on the list is: Is there a safe way to
store a convertible outside all winter without the snow and ice caving in
the top, other than brushing the frozen stuff off every hour or so during
storms?
        Thanks for any advice you can give...

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:18:49 -0400
Subject: Re[4]: open element air cleaner

You could experiment with turning the choke coil a half or full notch (on
dial) richer.  Or check the factory service manual for the parts and
settings used on the OAI engines to get an idea of what to do.

With either route it requires some work.  Let us know, and another addition to
 the FAQ.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -----------
I think the key here is what conditions your engine was designed to operate
under. If your carb expects warm air, and is designed to be driveable under
cold conditions with a supply of warm air, then feeding it cold air will
result in driveability problems. Of course you could modify the fuel supply
system to make it driveable with cold air under cold conditions, but then
you'd likely sacrifice some other quality (fuel consumption, exhaust
emissions, etc.) unless you did a whole lot re-engineering.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:20:11 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 Toronado

Bill Culp wrote:

snip

> 1972 AMX 401 4-speed.  Thsi was bought for my son's 16th birthday 16
> years ago.  He didn't like it & so it has sat in the barn for all these
> years.  It is dark metallic blue w/white vinyl roof panels & blue vinyl
> interior.  I have the engine out for painting & to work under the hood.
> Possibly it will get done next winter.

snip


Hey Bill,

Would you like to adopt me? :)

Mike Turley         '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:07:34 -0400
Subject: Re[4]: open element air cleaner

I know that running an open-element on my 403 hurts the driveability for about
5 minutes after startup...OTOH, I used to run the same open-element on my '70
455,...I could drive off after only a few seconds, and it didn't stumble at
all.

     This is probably due to the emissions requirements on the later model
     cars.  Most cars emit significantly greater amounts of pollutants
     during a cold start than at any other time (to the point that Saab has
     developed a system wherein the exhaust gas from the first minute or so
     of engine operation is stored in a bag (!?!?) and recirculated into
     the exhaust after the catalyst lights off).  The 70 didn't care about
     cold start emissions and was set much richer than the newer car, thus
     it is less sensitive to not having the heat riser in place.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:17:06 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: open element air cleaner

The only way putting an open element aircleaner on your car will
affect performance is when you start it up it won't run quite as
efficiently as it would recieving warm air from the choke stove.  It
will help your engine breathe better too.

     Be careful here.  While the stock snorkel air cleaners are obviously a
     tradeoff between flow efficiency and noise, an open element air
     cleaner may not be the best choice.  There is about a 1 hp increase
     for each 7 degree F decrease in the inlet temperature.  The open
     element unit is sucking 180-210 degree underhood air.  If the stock
     air cleaner has a cold air duct, it will obviously pull in 50-70
     degree external air (even colder for those of you in Chicago ;)).  If
     the carb is jetted to take advantage of the denser inlet air, this
     could amount to a 20+ hp increase!  Some weeks ago, someone posted
     about the improvement he had gotten by flipping the air cleaner lid on
     his 68 (?) W-30 - not the thing you want to do, as this obviously
     defeats the purpose of the cold-air ducts (note that Olds correctly
     refers to this as Outside Air Induction, not Ram Air).  I suspect that
     lacking proper track testing, the perceived power improvement is more
     related to the increased inlet sound than any real hp increase.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:21:10 -0400
Subject: Thanks: Headers, Block Quality

Thanks to Mark and Steve for the header, manifold info.
Thanks to Tony Waldner for the block info.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:36:31 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI woes

> Any suggestions are appreciated.
> Thanks
> Greg Pruett

Hey Greg ... I had a similar problem in my Ninety-Eight.  It never konked
out while driving, but one day it would start, they next day it wouldn't.
I finally found that there was a break in one of the wires coming from the
module (in my case the white one).  There was just enough left to
occasionally make contact, but other times it was dead.  Once it started
when a friend tapped the distributor with a wrench while I was cranking it.
 The break was hard to see at first; I had to take off the rotor to reveal
it.  Replaced the coil and no problems since ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 16:33:00 -0400
Subject: RE: Johnny Lightning '69 442

I have really gotten into collecting the different Johnny Lightning die cast
cars in the last couple months.  I had gotten a couple of the '69 442s over
a year ago, and since have acquired quite a few of the JL Oldsmobiles.  I am
trying to get all 11 series of the '69 442 and only need 3 more to complete
the set.  I currently only need series 1,3, & 7 to get the complete set.  I
have several extra of many of the different JL cars, and would be willing to
trade.  I have checked out nearly every hobby shop in the area, as well as
Toys R Us, Service Merchandise, Target, Walmart, and anyone else that might
carry them.  Does anyone else know where I might be able to get the
remaining series I need?  I would truly appreciate any help.
  .
/ | \
| | |
|/|\|
\ | /
  Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:55:42 -0400
Subject: Re: He's baaaaaack

Hi all,

I am back from my conference in Philly.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:04:02 -0400
Subject: Re: He's baaaaaack

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am back from my conference in Philly.

Hey, Chris.  How was everything in my ex-hometown?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds brackets

>Wish to correspond with any Olds bracket racers. Currently building '81
>Cutlass/ 425 Olds.


Sorry, don't have chance to bracket race, only street, but gotta reply 'cuz
I'm running the same car combo.  Great motor!  3.23 Posi.  Love it!  Later...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:18 -0400
Subject: Re: open element air cleaner

       <<< <<< <<<  R E A L L Y  B I G  S N I P  >>> >>> >>>

(I'm chopping in assumption everyone here's been following this post)  As
for the original idea of an open air element, you will get increased
airflow.  The cold air induction is a much higher performance increase,
however, and I would personally recommend going in that direction.  My
GranSport has the Ram-Air setup on it, and it's a really slick operation.
During most operations, it runs on one air inlet only.  During cold
operation, that inlet is routed through the heat stove.  Upon warmup, the
on-hood intake opens up.  During low vacuum *(slamming it!)* operation, a
door in the second snorkel (inlet) opens up, essentially doubling the air
inlet flow.  I experimented with an open element on this car a while back,
and the open seemed to have a little more take off.  Very little.  However,
with the Ram-Air, you could easily feel the difference when juicing it on
the highway.  50~80 mph seemed to pull a lot harder with the Ram Air.
Testimony enough for me to be convinced.  This prompted me to begin the OAI
conversion on the Rockit, (which never got finished...  Yet)  I took two
defroster vents from an old car, (no idea what they were from, they were out
of the old car they were born with...)  These fit quite well in the air
pockets in the lower bumper on the '81+ Cutlasses (or Cutlii, as someone so
creatively pointed out!)  From here I took shop-vac hose, and ran them up
through the fenders (Right-around the horns, and Left-  Well I never got
that one done!  I may have to cut or rethink a little bit.)  These ~could~
be plumbed into a home-made snorkel system (which I never made, but
visualized numerous times)  Each snorkel can have the cold air door, but one
with the heat tube blocked.  (for the secondary air inlet)  The other can
operate normally.  It's a fully functional design in my head, but it's never
made it on paper or metal yet.  I don't think it'd be all that tough to
finish, I just don't have the time or place right now.  Also, my taller
engine gives hood clearance problems that I haven't completely corrected
yet, so I don't have as much room to play with as I'd like. The Small Blocks
should have no problem there, whatsoever.

If anyone tries taking this further, I'd like to know the results, so keep
us posted here!  Good luck!!!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributors

>While we are on the subject of distributors, I have been having a cold
>weather realted problem with the Dist. in my '86 Cutlass 442.  When it
>gets really cold (0 - 10 above for those of us here in chicago..)  For
>the first few minutes after start-up I get a rup-rup-rup-rup sound
>coming from the distributor.

That's not a very good sound :(

 I had it replaced--the whole thing--in
>January of 94.   The problem disappeared for a while, but I am beginning
>to hear the tell-tale sounds of it again...only faintly now, but I am
>pretty sure it will get worse as it gets colder.  Any ideas on what this
>could be??  Is destroying my distributor or just annoying?

Since it's been evident in two different distributors (I'm assuming
~everything~ was changed; housing, vac. adv, mech. adv, rotor, cap, and
coil...)  I'd be led to assume something else is the problem.  What kind of
oil pressure are you running when this is happening?  Is there any chance
the oil pressure is causing a problem with dist. lube, and perhaps you're
hearing gear noise, or shaft wear, etc. echoing up through the dist.
housing?  It's a <_<_<__b__i___g___>___>____> stretch, but I can imagine it
being possible.  The recurring problem leaves a question of cause and effect
here; i.e., what is the noise, and why does it keep coming back.  If you're
lunching the distributor, ~why?~ and how many more will it kill.  I guess
you've asked yourself these questions, too, but I felt like pointing them
out.  Anyone else have any thoughts?  (about this!)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:22 -0400
Subject: Chevy Craft :(

Anyone see the Jan.  Car Craft?  Yuck!  I've never seen so many camaros
~anywhere!~  I found one ~drawn~ Pontiac Tempest, one Buick Skylark/GS
carrying the front ( :) - In HR, too) and a stripped '68 Cutlass (the garage
scene thing.  Rick Blowers on the list anywhere?  Apparantly the car is
finished and nasty.)  I don't think Bill Gates has the facilities to count
all the Camaros in there, tho.  There, were, of course the token Mustangs
here and there, and a couple Monte Carlos and other assorted Chevys here and
there.  I actually liked the '57 Chevy they had in there, tho.  Corvette
inside, shoebox outside.  Very well done.  Only missing one thing.  If it
could have been a Buick Special or an Olds, w/455 and equivalent tech
upgrades, it would have ~really~ been awesome!  'nuff for now...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Christmas story - (Non-olds related)

>Charlie,
>
>LOL=Laughing Out Loud
>ROFL=Rolling On Floor Laughing
>ROFLMAO=Rolling On Floor Laughing My A** Off
><G>=Grin
><BG>=Brig Grin
><VBG>=Very Big Grin
>(: = Smile
>(; = Wink

OK, cool.  Thanks, I feel better now!  I had originally suspected the same
answer someone else came up with (Laughing out loud\Really out F*&%^%#$
loud.) but I figured that ~most likely~ was not the correct assumption!


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:19:25 -0400
Subject: '80 Cutlass Edge?

I drive by the same car every day, and it always leaves me wonderring.  It
is an '80 Cutlass, but instead of the normal Rocket emblem on the fenders,
there is an Olds Scripted "Edge" there instead.  The grill is the same shape
as the W-30's (didn't wrap over the header panel) and the car is maroon,
almost red.  Never seen inside.  The rear sail panels (I think) are brushed
aluminum-style.  Don't know for sure.  I'd always thought it was some dealer
stick-on thing (the "edge") but I saw a newer FWD Calais in town a few weeks
back that had fading blue stripes on the bottom, and the word "Edge"
scripted in with matching decals.  It also had a black wing on the trunk-the
three piece style that is so popular with us!  I didn't get a chance to
borrow it (sorry) and I never saw the car again.

Anyone know anything about the "Edge" designation?  Just curious.  FWIW,
someone recently sideswiped the '80 down the street.  I don't think it's
moved in quite a while.  The fender (and "Edge" script) is caved in :(

While on the topic of lesser known cars, I have a curiosity aimed at our
Canadian neighbors.  Here in the states, we are all ~way~ to familiar with
the Geo Metro's  (people actually do drive them.)  A few years ago (when I
was working at an automotive specialty shop) I was called on to bid a job
involving a Targa Top, Aero Kit, and other goodies for a Pontiac Sunfire --
the Geo Twin.  I'd never heard of one, we don't have them here, as far as I
know.  I've seen a couple of them in my life, but that's about it.  The
question:  Did Olds and Buick have twins in there too?  I've never heard of
one, but I can't imagine them not doing it.   Just curious.

Thanks, & Later.....

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:40:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributors

>Since it's been evident in two different distributors (I'm assuming
>~everything~ was changed; housing, vac. adv, mech. adv, rotor, cap, and
>coil...)  I'd be led to assume something else is the problem.  What kind of
>oil pressure are you running when this is happening?  Is there any chance
>the oil pressure is causing a problem with dist. lube, and perhaps you're
>hearing gear noise, or shaft wear, etc. echoing up through the dist.
>housing?

Like you, I wondered what oil pressure was doing during those noises. Does
the oil pressure have a gauge or idiot light? If there is a gauge, does the
oil pressure fluctuate in harmony with the sound?

chuck

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:44:38 -0400
Subject: HEI woes -Reply

Greg,

I went to the parts store on my lunch break asking for prices on those
modules.  The good news is, they said they had a gadget that tests them
and tells them if they're bad.  The bad news is, they cost about $45.00
to replace if they are bad.  I plan on having mine tested sometime next
week.  Maybe one of your local part stores can do the same.  You
oughtta check...

Good luck,

Blaine

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:27:31 -0400
Subject: New OAI setup; WAS: open element air cleaner

Here's the setup I've envisioned for my '70 Delta (which comes with lots of
room for hoses :)).  Run 5" hoses from dual air cleaner inlets to the round
high beam headlight sockets.  This would mean a custom air cleaner.  If you
can find a picture of a F*rd Thunderbolt, you'll see what I mean.

Using either no high beam headlights, or find or fabricate a headlight
replacement that is controlled by a vacuum or electric solenoid that
progressively opens the hinged plastic lenses of the fake headlight.  Anyone
with any kind of lead here?

One side is progressively opened during normal operation while the other only
opens as the R's go up or vacuum goes down (pedal to the floor).

Entirely stealthy!!  Like the great '66, '67 W-30 OAI design!  It uses that
great high pressure area created by the flat slightly recessed grill area!!
Charley, that's a great idea about incorporating the heat stove into the
design. Then you have it all!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:27:58 -0400
Subject: Firefly  Was:Re: '80 Cutlass Edge?

On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, buehner wrote:
> While on the topic of lesser known cars, I have a curiosity aimed at our
> Canadian neighbors.  Here in the states, we are all ~way~ to familiar with
> the Geo Metro's  (people actually do drive them.)  A few years ago (when I
> was working at an automotive specialty shop) I was called on to bid a job
> involving a Targa Top, Aero Kit, and other goodies for a Pontiac Sunfire --
> the Geo Twin.  I'd never heard of one, we don't have them here, as far as I
> know.  I've seen a couple of them in my life, but that's about it.  The
> question:  Did Olds and Buick have twins in there too?  I've never heard of
> one, but I can't imagine them not doing it.   Just curious.

GM Canada had a real hard time figuring out how to sell their imports up
here. The Geo Metro twin is/was called the Pontiac Firefly but otherwise
was the same depressing little 3-cylinder job as the Geo. No Olds or
Buick equivalents, though some of those dealers here had a Passport
franchise for a while a few years ago that sold Isuzus, etc. imported by
GM. The Izusu Impulse was sold by Passport dealers as an Asuna up here.
You could get a real good deal on one of those since no one knew what
the heck an Asuna was! GM discontinued Passport after a few years (I
think)...

Interestingly, even though there are a few nameplates we get that you
guys can't buy, *we* can't buy a Geo Prizm here for some reason... never
understood why, since they did sell the previous model Chevy Nova
(Corolla) here.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:26:29 -0400
Subject: Cam Recomendations

These cam companys have my head spinning.  Hope one of you guys can
help. Here's what I got:

1968 442
1969 455 +.060 true 11:1 compression
Holly 850 DP
Offy Port -O- Sonic intake (port matched)
2.072 "C" heads ported/polished milled .030
roller rockers
NOS Cheater
M-21 close ratio trans.
4.11 rear end

car is 90% strip/10% street

Comp. Cams says:
292/292 Duration .518/.518 Lift  $109
Quote: "This here is the most radical hyd. cam we got fer dat there 455"

Crower Cams says:
284/290 Duration .552/.568 Lift  $119
Quote: "The diff. in intake exhaust lift will help compensate for the
Oldsmobiles weak exhaust ports"

Mondello says:
252/263 Duration .560/.579 Lift  $129
Quote: "You can drive up to the local burger stand with this cam, but
you'll be thumping like a MoFo"

I plan on calling afew more places, any recomendation from the peanut
gallery? ;)
- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:10:00 -0400
Subject: F-body to A-body disc brake swap

>From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:58:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: F-body to A-body Disc brake swap> I know of several
>people
>who have tried the F-body disc brakes on GTO's, most notably on a '70.  You
>have to have about 1 INCH of shims on the control arms to get the settings
>right, which is one reason why they yanked them off their Goats and went to
>other disc brakes.

The solution to this problem is to buy the special offset upper control
arm shafts that are (were) available from HO racing.  I assume they are
also available from NAPA or the like.  These shafts are offset to
compensate for frame sag on old cars, since in that condition, you can
remove all of the shims and still not be in specs.  By installing them
backwards (i.e. with the offset towards the frame), you can eliminate
the vast majority of the shims mentioned in the post!

I swapped full size late-80's Olds wagon (?--Body) knuckles onto my '70
442 with no problems.  I gained the DRASTICALLY improved roll-center
advantage, the larger wheel bearings, and super beefy 12" GM rotors from
the Camaro w/1LE brakes.  If you used these offset shafts with the
F-body knuckles, I think you don't even need to change ball joints or
outer tie rod ends.  The station wagon knuckle swap was a simple bolt up
, using my original calipers and pad sizes, with the only  work being
slightly enlarging the stud holes in the rotors to accept standard
thread wheel studs in place of the metric ones provided on the rotors
from GM.  I have very few alignment shims installed, and was able to
gain lots of caster for high speed stability.  HO used to sell a
upper/lower ball joint/outer tie rod kit for this for about $150.  I'm
sure some time with a TRW catalog would enable you to pick out the
correct taper ball joints and rod ends.  HO would not divulge the part
numbers to me, even after I bought the kit from them!  I will have to
call their number to see if there is anybody still around who will spill
the beans.  If not, I'll be the one looking through my TRW catalog!

Scott Mullen
'70 442 with the big discs

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:35:02 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Woes

>>From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
>>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:10:23 -0400
>>Subject: HEI woes

>>Deja vu!  My HEI distributor , bought used 3 months ago to replace a points
>>distributor that conked out on me, has conked out on me.  I would
appreciate
>>any advice I can get.

Sorry to hear that Greg.

Yes, what you are experiencing could be a module, pickup coil or ignition
coil failure. I'd first make sure everything is hooked up with full voltage
to the HEI tho.

The module can be checked by most discount parts houses.  I assume the coil
can as well.  These two items should be able to be replaced without pulling
distributor.

The pickup coil is another matter as it is under the magnetic pulse
generator.  That requires disassembling the beast.

You indicated the ignition coil is new so, although possible, it isn't the
first choice of the problem. Double check that all the coil wires are
conected properly and pushed fully into the cap.  Have the module checked.

In past posts it was noted that solid state ignitions, any kind, do not like
voltage spikes, such as those generated by the older mechanical
coils/contacts voltage regulators.  Do you have a solid state voltage
regulator?

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:04:22 -0400
Subject: 79 403 olds engine and tranny for sale

My brother is parting out a '79 Pontiac Trans Am and doesn't need the
drivetrain that originally came in it.  It is your basic Turbo 350 with a 403
Olds.  The only things missing are the exhaust manifolds.  He bought it non
running and I don't think he ever got it to run.  I don't know how many miles
are on the engine or what the internals of the block look like, although he
does have it stripped down to the short block assembly.  If anybody is
interested you can make me an offer.  If you have any questions or want to
know anything particular about the engine send me a message privately.  For
those interested in talking to my brother, the number is 630-759-3308,
located outside of Chicago.  A word of caution, my brother is sometimes hard
to get a hold of if you are interested in talking to him directly.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris_r._smetana@dadc.com

1969 W-31 Cutlass
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertible - still for sale
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:46:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

At 11:24 AM 12/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I visited Summit Racing yesterday and picked up afew things.  Among
>them was a Comp. Cams Magnum roller rocker kit.  The kit came with:
>
>Roller Rockers
>"Hi Energy" Push Rods
>Rocker Studs
>Guide Plates
>and NO directions.
>
>  Anyone have any experience with this kit?  The salesman seemed to
>think that alot of machining would need to be done to the head.
>The new studs screw right into the stock holes.  Looks to me like it'll
>just bolt rite up.  Am I missing something?
>--
>     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
> Excavation, Demolition, Paving
>         216.291.2780
>
>
What studs?  Oldsmobile doesn't use studs!  Am I missing something?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:48:28 -0400
Subject: Re: V6 to V8

At 11:32 AM 12/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a 1983 oldsmobile cutlass with a 3.8l V6 and a olds factory 350 turbo
>transmission.  The car is in good shape but it is too damn slow.  I'm
>getting ready to rebuild a pre-1984  350 chevy motor that I have had sitting
>around.  I'm looking for information (or somewhere to find information) on
>capatibility between the V6/V8 and olds/chevy (transmission,cooling,motor
>mounts and brackets).
>                                                Randy Phillips
>                                                rjphil00@pop.uky.edu
>
>
>
If you intend to do a major overhaul on the Mouse 350, it is likely less
expensive to by a factory new crate motor 350.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:55:50 -0400
Subject: Re: V6 to V8

At 11:32 AM 12/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a 1983 oldsmobile cutlass with a 3.8l V6 and a olds factory 350 turbo
>transmission.  The car is in good shape but it is too damn slow.  I'm
>getting ready to rebuild a pre-1984  350 chevy motor that I have had sitting
>around.  I'm looking for information (or somewhere to find information) on
>capatibility between the V6/V8 and olds/chevy (transmission,cooling,motor
>mounts and brackets).
>                                                Randy Phillips
>                                                rjphil00@pop.uky.edu
>
>
>
There are two GM transmission flanges, Chevy and the rest.  Plus some
trannies, including some TH350s are dual flanged.  If you do not have a dual
flanged TH350 you cannot easily use your transmission.  Motor mounts are at
most a bolt up with the correct ones proposition.  The 3.81 L radiator is
likely insufficient for a 350.  I just bought a factory new radiator for my
Caprice and it was less than $110. + tax. However, radiator outlets in the
radiator might be a bit tricky on the 3.61 L too.  Get a new radiator that
matches the chassis and engine, which should not be difficult.  Engine
brackets are another proposition entirely.  If your 350 Chevy is missing
them, it's junk yard city for you.  The accessories from the original car
are most likely all reuseable, if you can get the correct brackets.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:59:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

C.R.F. wrote:
>

> >Roller Rockers
> >"Hi Energy" Push Rods
> >Rocker Studs
> >Guide Plates
> >and NO directions.

> What studs?  Oldsmobile doesn't use studs!  Am I missing something?
>
> The Wiz

 Yeah, your missing something.  Olds doesnt use guide plates, studs, or
roller rockers for that matter, this is a High Performance conversion
kit to make the Olds valve train adjustable and reduce friction.
Said to free up about 15-20 Hp and afew hundred rpm..

rottin@coil.com
- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:11:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter Storage (Again!?)

At 02:37 PM 12/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>        I have a '68 Cutlass Convertible that I just bought this summer and
>need to store it outside the winter. The car needs some body work,new paint
>and a new canvas top sometime in the future,(You mean when you get some
>money?). I know that Tim and Dr. Bob, here with me in New England, are
>enjoying our first real snowfall of this season.=20
>        What I want to ask the folks on the list is: Is there a safe way to
>store a convertible outside all winter without the snow and ice caving in
>the top, other than brushing the frozen stuff off every hour or so during
>storms?
>        Thanks for any advice you can give...
>
>Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
>bradbaker@worldnet.att.net
>
>
>
You might try putting the top down, and then using a tarp over the car.  The
snow load wouldn't present too much of a problem them.  Get a piece of
fairly thin, plywood, say 1/4", and cut out for the shape of the windshield,
and the steering wheel.  Don't let it rub directly against the body or any
'tall' upholstery, or the top of the dash etc.  Use thin plywood so that it
takes some of the shape of the car.  The cover the entire thing with a tarp.
Get a tarp that clears the ground, but goes well down the side of the car.
Bungie or tie it down, and you should be set.  Also, remove the batter,
drain the cooling system unless it's anti-freeze is good to 40 below or so,
and fill the fuel tank to plumb full before you park it.

Should protect the car fairly well.

We had out first snow, only 2", last week, and it was a formidable 70=BA=
 today.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:32:49 -0400
Subject: Virginia Tech exclusions

PLEASE don't exclude all VT students from the list!!  I really enjoy the
list and I would be devastated (not really, just play along :)) if *we*
were excluded.                I'll be a VT student next year! ---> ^^^^

Just my $.02...

- --=20

****************************************************************
=A6  |  =A6                 Jason Adcock         	 	 =A6  |  =A6
=A6  |  =A6              adcockjk@erols.com			 =A6  |  =A6
=A6 /|\ =A6        1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais		 =A6 /|\ =A6
=A6  |  =A6 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html =A6  |  =A6
****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:57:11 -0400
Subject: Re: New OAI setup; WAS: open element air cleaner

On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, David Brown wrote:

> Here's the setup I've envisioned for my '70 Delta (which comes with lots of
room > for hoses :)).  Run 5" hoses from dual air cleaner inlets to the round
high beam > headlight sockets.  This would mean a custom air cleaner.  If you
can find a > picture of a F*rd Thunderbolt, you'll see what I mean. > >
Actually you don't need a custom air cleaner, just go to your local junkyard
and find a '85 Mustang GT (Looks the same as an '86 except no 3rd brake light
and no FI) These have excellant air cleaners with two large inlets and hoses
running into each fender, this air cleaner has a neat aluminum cover (just be
prepared to lose the 5.0 HO sticker);) They were equipped with Holley 4bbls
from the factory which have the same inlet diameter as the Q-jet.

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:55:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

At 08:59 PM 12/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>
>> >Roller Rockers
>> >"Hi Energy" Push Rods
>> >Rocker Studs
>> >Guide Plates
>> >and NO directions.
>
>> What studs?  Oldsmobile doesn't use studs!  Am I missing something?
>>
>> The Wiz
>
> Yeah, your missing something.  Olds doesnt use guide plates, studs, or
>roller rockers for that matter, this is a High Performance conversion
>kit to make the Olds valve train adjustable and reduce friction.
>Said to free up about 15-20 Hp and afew hundred rpm..
>
>rottin@coil.com
>--
>     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
> Excavation, Demolition, Paving
>         216.291.2780
>
>
Your original post read, and I quote; "Anyone have any experience with this
kit?  The salesman seemed to think that a lot of machining would need to be
done to the head.  The new studs screw right into the stock holes.  Looks to
me like it'll just bolt rite up.  Am I missing something?"

If the studs screw to the stock holes, then there must be stock studs? No?
I thought I was aware that Oldsmobile doesn't use roller rockers, and studs
for that matter.  I'm sorry that this sounds like a trivial matter, and
probably no more than missed semantics; but I though I did miss something.
I've been into several dozen Olds engines, and had never seen one (a studed
valve train that is).  I've never seen a 7/16" head bolt either, as
mentioned in a post last week.  I have not, and do not claim, to have been
everywhere and seen everything.  But I do have some curiosity, so please
excuse the question.

I always thought that the 'non-adjustable backlash' valve trains were less
than totally desirable, after all, Mr. Bowtie's engines are adjustable, and
everyone knows how backwards they are.

On the serious side, does this kit use the stock lifters?  What do they sell
for?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Beydler@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:09:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds brackets

I am currently still in the constuction stage, but my plans are for a strip
only car to race here locally at Los Angeles County Racway (LACR). I am
currently working on the rolling chassis, 12 pt., Ford 9", 11.5 Goodyears,
ladderbars, etc. I'm going to build the engine as far as I can go without
going broke, hopefully to the 450-475 hp stage. I'll run a TH400 and brake.
I'm interested in your combo. Is the engine stock? what mods? give me the
details. Rod.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:05:30 -0400
Subject: Re: New Olds Review (informal) [REPOST]

Robert Barry wrote:

>
> I had to drop some things at an office across the street from the only local
> Oldsmobile dealer today, and thought I'd share my impressions of the latest
> from our favorite automaker:
>
>
> Making an 88 look upscale by using those Aurora rims may be a smart idea...
> as long as it doesn't cannibalize Aurora sales. With a supercharged V-6,
> that 88 would be a nice car. With the Aurora V-8, that 88 would be MINE!
> Just as long as it had discreet little "W-33" badges near the front turn
> signals... :)
>

>
> * The new Olds Bravada is one slick SUV. Put a V-8 in there, and I might
> consider buying that one.
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry


Bob,

I know that this is Christmas, but it is hard to be very generous
w/Oldsmobile except in the luxury sedan area.  I am not in the market
for a luxury sedan (too many groceries & kilowatts to buy), so what does
Olds have to offer?

Even the luxury Toronado is gone.  Will there be an Aurora V8 put into a
Riviera type vehicle to get me to change my mind?  If there is, I have
not heard of it.  I want a fast, competent, growly V8 coupe or
convertible w/442 or Toronado prominantly  placed on the fender &
miniature sewer pipes hanging out the back.  GM used to be the best in
the world at building these things w/any name on them that pleased us.

Speaking of Christmas, why won't GM give us this Christmas present?
Should I write Santa & wait for the Finns or Canadians to send it?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:23:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:
>
> I visited Summit Racing yesterday and picked up afew things.  Among
> them was a Comp. Cams Magnum roller rocker kit.  The kit came with:
>
> Roller Rockers
> "Hi Energy" Push Rods
> Rocker Studs
> Guide Plates
> and NO directions.
>
>   Anyone have any experience with this kit?  The salesman seemed to
> think that alot of machining would need to be done to the head.
> The new studs screw right into the stock holes.  Looks to me like it'll
> just bolt rite up.  Am I missing something?

Kenneth,
     I installed the Roller Tip rockers on my 455 and haven't had a bit
of trouble with them.  No machining was required and the studs and guide
plates replaced the rocker arm pivots perfectly.  Any questions, e-mail
me.

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com
'68 442

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:15:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech exclusions

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> PLEASE don't exclude all VT students from the list!!  I really enjoy the
> list and I would be devastated (not really, just play along :)) if *we*
> were excluded.                I'll be a VT student next year! ---> ^^^^
>
> Just my $.02...
>
>
               Jason Adcock


Jason,

You're forgiven this time my son.  But remember..........

Anon
Decatur, Alambama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:25:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 Door Panels

In a message dated 96-12-10 00:26:52 EST, you write:

<< any chance for arm rests for 70 olds 'Coupe??? could use panels too but
 mine are black and white..
  >>
sorry cant help you there Pete
w machines

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:53:21 -0400
Subject: Christmass Wish

Bob,
>
> I know that this is Christmas, but it is hard to be very generous
> w/Oldsmobile except in the luxury sedan area.  I am not in the market
> for a luxury sedan (too many groceries & kilowatts to buy), so what does
> Olds have to offer?
>
> Even the luxury Toronado is gone.  Will there be an Aurora V8 put into a
> Riviera type vehicle to get me to change my mind?  If there is, I have
> not heard of it.  I want a fast, competent, growly V8 coupe or
> convertible w/442 or Toronado prominantly  placed on the fender &
> miniature sewer pipes hanging out the back.  GM used to be the best in
> the world at building these things w/any name on them that pleased us.
>
> Speaking of Christmas, why won't GM give us this Christmas present?
> Should I write Santa & wait for the Finns or Canadians to send it?
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

To Robert and Bill
Olds gives us 88 with Buick engine,Bravada with Chevy engine,
even in the Aurora Olds used a downgraded Caddy engine
It would be nice if Santa brought back a Front engine\Rear drive
Olds with a real Olds engine.Low tech is fine as it would
keep price down.The only place to get midsized V8 rear drive
is at Ford.I am sure Olds could do it and I am sure thre are
enough buyers to make it feasible.Sorry for rambling
Frank Gonzalez
Miami,Fla
1971 442 w-30 convt
1970 442 Post coupe
1972 Cutlass S
1990 LSC Special Edition

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:30:50 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 Toronado

Mike Turley wrote:
>
> Bill Culp wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > 1972 AMX 401 4-speed.  Thsi was bought for my son's 16th birthday 16
> > years ago.  He didn't like it & so it has sat in the barn for all these
> > years.  It is dark metallic blue w/white vinyl roof panels & blue vinyl
> > interior.  I have the engine out for painting & to work under the hood.
> > Possibly it will get done next winter.
>
> snip
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Would you like to adopt me? :)
>
> Mike Turley


Mike,

I have a dog & some fish; why not?

 My daughter got a '68 Firebird convertible on her 16th birthday.  She
liked that.  Her new husband sold it though & she got a 3 cyl Chevy w/a
5-speed.  I later got her a new Mustang GT & she gave it to husband #2
in trade for a Honda Accord.

Where have I gone wrong?  My children grew up & dad is stuck w/the 442
4-speed convertibles.  I guess that I'll never learn.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:47:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning '69 442

In a message dated 96-12-10 16:42:15 EST, you write:

<< I had gotten a couple of the '69 442s over
 a year ago, and since have acquired quite a few of the JL Oldsmobiles.  I am

 trying to get all 11 series of the '69 442 and only need 3 more to complete
 the set.  I currently only need series 1,3, & 7 to get the complete set.  >>

Howdy Jeff, there are actually 14 cars to the whole collection. Besides 1,3
and 7
you also need the 69 H/O that comes in the Muscle Car Box Set.  The FAO
Schwarz collection has a special Muscle Car set with only 3000 made and then
the last car is the Toy Fair 95 69 Olds paint metallic deep red with the name
Storm Warning.  I can help with a box set that goes for 25.00.  I will look
for 1,3 and 7 at the next Toy show here in Detroit and you can contact FAO
Scwarz and the Toy Fair car
is the real expensive one.  It runs at leat 125.00 due to there were only 500
made.
If you want one, I could find it.  I have several sources that I go through.

W MACHINES(Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:42:31 -0400
Subject: Intake stove

>When cold the air cleaner sucks air in through that silver tubing
>connected to the "stove" on the drivers side of the block.

Speaking of the above, I need one for my '69.  It was discarded in years
past.  It mounts to the pass side exman.  Anybody got one?

Anon MCCXLVI
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:03:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Firefly

> guys can't buy, *we* can't buy a Geo Prizm here for some reason... never
> understood why, since they did sell the previous model Chevy Nova
> (Corolla) here.

I recall that the design of the Prizm's instrument panel didn't allow for
the installation of the daytime running lights module.  The Corolla's
version was slightly different; the cruise control module in the Prizm
occupies the location where the DRL would have been installed.  Makes
you wonder about how tightly everything is packaged in the name of space
efficiency - what a service nightmare!  They should just make the cars
bigger.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:26:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Christmass Wish

Frank Gonzalez wrote:
>
> It would be nice if Santa brought back a Front engine\Rear drive
> Olds with a real Olds engine.Low tech is fine as it would
> keep price down.The only place to get midsized V8 rear drive
> is at Ford.I am sure Olds could do it and I am sure thre are
> enough buyers to make it feasible.Sorry for rambling
> Frank Gonza

Frank,

I almost said that about Ford, but I thought that I was already in Olds
purgatory.  I didn't want to e pushed into you know where too.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:30:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Recomendations

At 06:26 PM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>These cam companys have my head spinning.  Hope one of you guys can
>help. Here's what I got:
>
>1968 442
>1969 455 +.060 true 11:1 compression
>Holly 850 DP
>Offy Port -O- Sonic intake (port matched)
[snip]
>Comp. Cams says:
>292/292 Duration .518/.518 Lift  $109
>Quote: "This here is the most radical hyd. cam we got fer dat there 455"

Well, it may be the most radical they sell, but it won't be matched to your
combination. Nice advice, guys... :(

>Crower Cams says:
>284/290 Duration .552/.568 Lift  $119
>Quote: "The diff. in intake exhaust lift will help compensate for the
>Oldsmobiles weak exhaust ports"
>
>Mondello says:
>252/263 Duration .560/.579 Lift  $129
>Quote: "You can drive up to the local burger stand with this cam, but
>you'll be thumping like a MoFo"

With that compression, you'll want quite a bit of duration; are both those
specs at 0" cam lift or .050" lift? You're set to run in the 3500-6500
range, and even with the 4.11's you'd be able to drive on the street in your
desired rev range (but yeah, I don't think you'll be able to idle smoothly
much below 1200rpm, if you can idle below that at all).

One final thing: whose pistons are you using? You might want to do a check
of the actual compression, cc the heads, pistons, deck height, etc. The
pistons may be rated 11.0:1, but with some unrealistically small chamber
size (say 70cc). OTOH, if the pistons are high in the bore, and milling your
heads has brought down the combustion chamber size, you could be closing in
on 12.0:1 or higher compression. The long-duration can will bleed off
cylinder pressure at low rpms, but as the revs increase the pressure will as
well, and you might run into detonation problems. That's where spark timing
and fuel mixture comes into play; too lean to start, with too much advance,
and you'll be in the market for new pistons real soon.

>I plan on calling afew more places, any recomendation from the peanut
>gallery? ;)

Sounds like a fun ride! One that this "Planter's" would like to be in the
saddle of (I'm contemplating how wild my SX should be, since it won't be a
daily driver...)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:32:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Intake stove

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> >When cold the air cleaner sucks air in through that silver tubing
> >connected to the "stove" on the drivers side of the block.
>
> Speaking of the above, I need one for my '69.  It was discarded in years
> past.  It mounts to the pass side exman.  Anybody got one?
>
> Anon MCCXLVI
> --
> Dave Paulison


Dave,

Me too.  Mine is gone & I am trying to make do w/a 350 2-barrle type.
I  have a 400 '68 442.  Let me know if you fine a second.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:31:52 -0400
Subject: HEI Troubleshooting

I went out and got an electronic engine controls manual from the library and
I though I'd pass the test proceedures for the HEI ignition system along.  I
also bought a new multimeter and I can't believe I went so long before
replacing the old one, which breathed it's last when I ran it over with the
car, good thing it was relatively cheap. (i've lost two flashlights to
indiscriminant backing out the driveway too, but I digress) They are one of
the handiest tools you can own.  Everyone should carry one in the glove box.

The procedures for testing the coil, modulator, and pickup coil are as
follows.

Coil
Here is a diagram of the spade terminals in the distributor cap.  The +V
terminal is for the 12 volts in from the ignition.  The T terminal connects
to the tachometer, and the A, B and C terminals are for the 3-wire connector
that runs out the distributor base to the cap.  The diagram is layed out as
if you had the wires disconnected and the cap upside down, looking down at
the spades.

         A B C
         I   I   I
         __  __
         +V  T

1 Connect the ohmmeter between the +V and the T terminals.  The meter should
read zero or nearly zero.
2 Connect the meter to the T terminal and the carbon-looking button in the
center of the distributor    cap.(the center electrode the rotor connects
to)  Then check with the meter between the B terminal and    the carbon
button. The coil is bad if both readings are infinite.

Module

Here is my best attempt at a diagram of the ignition module.  Both modules
I've seen have the terminals labeled.  This may help if yours isn't.  The
(G) is the ground terminal, and it is one of the holes that the screw runs
through to attatch the module to the distributor.


          C    B                        G      W
          __   __                       __   __
          \_\_ \_\                      /_/__/_/
           \         \___________/         /
            \                                     /
             \   (G)                     (  )   /
              \___________________/

1 Remove the module from the distributor. (watch out for that nasty
dielectric grease on the underside, It's    relatively hamless, but goopy)
Connect a test lamp between the B and C module terminals and jumper +12
volts to the B terminal and then ground the module at the (G) terminal.  If
the lamp lights then the module is    bad.
2 If the module passes step one then jumper between the B and G terminals.
The lamp will light if the    module is ok.

If you suspect the module at this point, you might as well take it with you
to the parts store if they'll test it for you, and confirm your diagnosis
before you buy a new one.

Pickup coil

1 Remove the pickup coil leads(carefully) from the module.  Connect the
ohmmeter to the base of the distributor and the pickup coil lead.  The book
doesn't specify which one, so I assume either one will do.  Personally, I
checked both.  Operate the vacuum advance through it's full range. (I didn't
have my vacuum pump with me so I sucked on the vacuum line going to the
advance.  If you use that method you're likely to spend the rest of the day
spitting.  I don't reccomend it, but it'll do in a pinch.)  The meter should
read infinite in all positions.

2 Connect the ohmmeter between the leads coming from the pickup coil and
operate the vacuum advance through it's full range. (ptoo-hawk-ptoo, wipe
mouth)  The meter should read 650 to 850 ohms in all advance positions.


Thoes are the proceedures, hope it was intelligeble.  If something isn't
clear contact me and I'll try and clarify.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:26:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Recomendations

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> >Mondello says:
> >252/263 Duration .560/.579 Lift  $129
> >Quote: "You can drive up to the local burger stand with this cam, but
> >you'll be thumping like a MoFo"
>
> With that compression, you'll want quite a bit of duration; are both those
> specs at 0" cam lift or .050" lift?

 The duration is measured at .050 lift I believe.  I think the part
number he gave me was JM 30-10
 Another thing Joe said was that by using roller rockers on studs with a
cam .560+ I will
 run the risk of shearing rocker studs. Any input?


> You're set to run in the 3500-6500
> range, and even with the 4.11's you'd be able to drive on the street in your
> desired rev range (but yeah, I don't think you'll be able to idle smoothly
> much below 1200rpm, if you can idle below that at all).

  I love the sound of a rough idle.  Hopefully it'll lope like 4 Harleys
w/ drag pipes sitting
  side by side.

> One final thing: whose pistons are you using? You might want to do a check
> of the actual compression, cc the heads, pistons, deck height, etc. The
> pistons may be rated 11.0:1, but with some unrealistically small chamber
> size (say 70cc).

 They are TRW Forged pistons 10.4:1 measured using 70 cc heads.  With my
heads
 milled .030 I figure on getting around 1 point of compression.  Should
bring me into
 the neighborhood of 11:1 hopefully.  I live next to a small airport and
was planning
 on using AV gas, but the machine shop guy told me it would mess up my
engine.  So
 alternativly there is an oil company about 10 miles away that sells
Sunoco Racing gas (2.99 per gallon)


> Sounds like a fun ride! One that this "Planter's" would like to be in the
> saddle of (I'm contemplating how wild my SX should be, since it won't be a
> daily driver...)

 Here's a good rule of thumb..
 If it cant drag the rear bumper on the ground it aint wild enuff! heh.

- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <dink@infinet.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:50:27 -0400
Subject: Hey hey

Hey there,
    I'll make this short since I have more tests/finals and papers to
write.   After my Delta was tolen I bought my sisters car (88 mazda
323) because I needed a car for school and such.  Anyways I can't
take that little POS 4cyl anymore I need a V8, please!


Anyways i'm looking for a 78-80 Delta 88 Holiday coupe, preferably
with a 403, or a 350 but not a 307.  Anybody have any leads on such a
beast?   I found one in cleveland but it had the, umm, err  droopy
treatment.   Hydraulics, candy apple paint, stereo, etc.  NOT what I
want.


Thanks for any help!


Later,
  Dink

- -------
Dink
Heinledw@flyernet.udayton.edu or dink@infinet.com
http://www.infinet.com/~dink
Dayton, Ohio
- ---------

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:58:45 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 Toronado

>Mike Turley wrote:
>>
>> Bill Culp wrote:
>>
>> > 1972 AMX 401 4-speed.  Thsi was bought for my son's 16th birthday 16
>> > years ago.  He didn't like it & so it has sat in the barn for all these
>> > years.
>
> My daughter got a '68 Firebird convertible on her 16th birthday.  She
>liked that.  Her new husband sold it though & she got a 3 cyl Chevy w/a
>5-speed.  I later got her a new Mustang GT & she gave it to husband #2
>in trade for a Honda Accord.

The irony here is that it took me a lot of talking to convince my dad that
his 10 year old son would drive a 21 year old yellow station wagon to high
school if it was saved 5 or 6 years for him.  Dad was going to give it away
anyway, but he didn't want more stuff sitting around the house.  Obviously,
I convinced him to park it in the woods and keep it awhile.  At the time the
main reason I wanted to keep the car was because it was potentially a free
set of wheels.  When I got to driving age I realized I had a very unsusual
car with a 350 V-8, so I was still happy to keep it.  Now I have it and
wouldn't sell it for anything.  It's interesting how some people just don't
know what they have.  I guess it just amounts to what people's priorities are.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser


------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:03:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

In a message dated 96-12-10 10:45:51 EST, you write:

<< I visited Summit Racing yesterday and picked up afew things.  Among
 them was a Comp. Cams Magnum roller rocker kit.  The kit came with:

 Roller Rockers
 "Hi Energy" Push Rods
 Rocker Studs
 Guide Plates
 and NO directions.

   Anyone have any experience with this kit?  The salesman seemed to
 think that alot of machining would need to be done to the head.
 The new studs screw right into the stock holes.  Looks to me like it'll
 just bolt rite up.  Am I missing something?
 --
      Kenneth G. Holland Jr. >>

Out of curiousity, how much was the set-up?  Sounds interesting, possibly a
good high performance option.  What type of salesman there doesn't even have
a clue as to how or what is needed to install them.  And why weren't there
any instructions?

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: GABowles@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:05:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance 455 intakes?

Just thought you might like to know that the O4B and the OL4B are Edelbrock
intake manifolds.  The O4B is for the big block and the OL4B is for the small
block.  It came from a series of manifolds the company produced through the
mid to late 70's.  They were named for the engine they fit O=oldsmobile,
L=low deck, 4B=4 barrel.  There were also F4B= ford 221/260/289/302,
R4B=AMC(Rambler) 290,304, 343,360,390,401.

For the oldsmobiles, the manifold could either be machined for the square
bore carburetors (Holley and Carter AFB), or for the spreadbore (Quadrajet,
Holley 4165/4175 series, and Carter Thermoquad). By the way, Edelbrock
stopped producing both of these manifolds around 1977.  They are fairly hard
to locate--and usually severely over priced for a used intake manifold.

I have used both the O4B on my '70 W-30 and the OL4B on my Rallye 350 with
good results.  One things that is nice if you have the OAI hood is that these
manifolds are close enough to stock height that you can still use your
original air cleaner.  The 455 performer will not fit under the OAI hood nor
will the Torker without a different air cleaner assembly.

On this original note I seem to recall the person was using a fairly mild
cam.  290/300 duration 472/496 lift.  My recomendation would be to use the
performer if you have to use an aluminum manifold as it is the only dual
plane intake currently available new.

------------------------------

From: GABowles@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:14:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Intake stove

Is your car a big block or a small block?  They are different.

------------------------------

From: GABowles@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:18:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Intake stove

Just thought you might like to know that the late 68 through 72 big block
manifold heat stove is reproduced.  I know Brothers Automotive carries it.
 If I recall it is around $125 though.

I search for those manifolds every time I go to the junkyard.  It seems that
only about 10% of the manifolds I get still have that piece in good shape.
 They are always rusted beyond use.  The sad part is that I live in southern
california--things are not supposed to rust like that out here.  I bet those
guys in the northeast have a real problem finding those heat stoves.

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:17:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Comp. Cams Magnum Roller Rockers

CRuper1@aol.com wrote:

> Out of curiousity, how much was the set-up?  Sounds interesting, possibly a
> good high performance option.  What type of salesman there doesn't even have
> a clue as to how or what is needed to install them.  And why weren't there
> any instructions?
>
> Chris Ruper

  The salesman was pretty helpful.  I assume he got the aluminum and the
steel roller rockers confused.  The steel ones I have were $270.
I called the Comp. Cams tech line and the guy their said some ship with
directions and some dont, depends on who packed it.  Sounds like bad
business to me.  Tech guy said to expect to gain 15-20 HP. And they are
definatly a direct bolt on.

- --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: "Steven Bettis" <bettiss@empnet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:15:02 -0400
Subject: Performance manifolds

Don't forget about the Offy tunnel rams. They can still be purchased with
both single and dual 4 barrel tops.

With two 600 CFM vacume secondaries, this is an extremely streetable setup.
In one of my combos with a hydraulic cam I could idle at 850 RPM and make
good power to 6200 RPM. The mid-range will suprise anybody that has been
told  tunnel rams won't make good street setups.


Steve Bettis
67 442

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:25:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributors

buehner wrote:
> Since it's been evident in two different distributors (I'm assuming
> ~everything~ was changed; housing, vac. adv, mech. adv, rotor, cap, and
> coil...)  I'd be led to assume something else is the problem.  What kind of
> oil pressure are you running when this is happening?  Is there any chance
> the oil pressure is causing a problem with dist. lube, and perhaps you're
> hearing gear noise, or shaft wear, etc. echoing up through the dist.
> housing?  It's a <_<_<__b__i___g___>___>____> stretch, but I can imagine it
> being possible.  The recurring problem leaves a question of cause and effect
> here; i.e., what is the noise, and why does it keep coming back.  If you're
> lunching the distributor, ~why?~ and how many more will it kill.  I guess
> you've asked yourself these questions, too, but I felt like pointing them
> out.  Anyone else have any thoughts?  (about this!)
>
Charley,
   I don't recall any oil pressure problems.  At least the gage says
there aren't any problems.  You make a good point about gear wear, etc.
after thinking about it, I remembered that if I put a little pressure on
the distributor pushing it rearwards, that seemed to lessen the noise.
I will have to wait a few more weeks for it to get colder and see if it
really is back full-bloom and do a little more playing with it.
Thanks!
- ---M
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MMayer@InterAccess.Com                 | Matt Mayer VM: (800) 481-1323 
		
| "Well, that was interesting......"

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:25:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Intake stove

> Speaking of the above, I need one for my '69.  It was discarded in years
> past.  It mounts to the pass side exman.  Anybody got one?
>
> Dave Paulison

Hey Dave ... it's a long shot, but I was able to buy one of these for my
'74 Ninety-Eight from the local GM dealership.  They had to order it
special (I think it came from a warehouse in Georgia).  This was 1 year ago
.. you never know.

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:57:34 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Troubleshooting

     ROFLMAO!  Been there, done that!  One-o-these days I gotta get a
     vacuum pump. . .


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: HEI Troubleshooting Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    12/10/96 8:32 PM

operate the vacuum advance through it's full range. (ptoo-hawk-ptoo, wipe
mouth)  The meter should read 650 to 850 ohms in all advance positions.


------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:57:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Chevy Craft :(

     Oh, wow!  I can't believe they put that '57 in there!  I see the car
     all the time at the local informal-rod-meets they have weekly during
     the summer at a drive in.  It's for sale for the right price too.  The
     pictures don't do it justice, it's even better looking in person.
     They didn't show the most impressive part (to me), the dash; which is
     completely custom and looks like a ZR-1 dash but made to fit the '57.
     That took a lot of time and work.

     Anybody up for doing this treatment with an Aurora in a '72 SX
     convertible?  Maybe take some tips that the LeMans guys used in their
     Aurora engine.  BTW, "High-tech Performance" a month or two ago had a
     very interesting article on the car using the Aurora engine.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Chevy Craft :( Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    12/10/96 2:37 PM

there.  I actually liked the '57 Chevy they had in there, tho.  Corvette
inside, shoebox outside.  Very well done.  Only missing one thing.  If it
could have been a Buick Special or an Olds, w/455 and equivalent tech
upgrades, it would have ~really~ been awesome!  'nuff for now...

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:01:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Recomendations

At 11:26 PM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
> The duration is measured at .050 lift I believe.  I think the part
>number he gave me was JM 30-10
> Another thing Joe said was that by using roller rockers on studs with a
>cam .560+ I will
> run the risk of shearing rocker studs. Any input?

Hmmm, I hope that other cam wasn't running 290' at .050" lift! That's a
*lot* of duration. OTOH, it sounds like the Mondello figs might be at .050"
lift, in which case he might be giving you a more radical grind (and I think
that's what you're going to want).

The limit on valve lift on the Olds heads is the valvespring retainer
contacting the valve guide; you have to mill down the guide for extra
clearance (Mondello sells the tool; I'm surprised he didn't try to sell it
to you on the phone). It's not the lift that would snap the stud, but rather
the extreme valvespring pressure you need to use to keep up with the revs
you'll be running. Since the stock bolt is only 5/16", it is possible for
heavy springs and high revs to snap off a relatively small stud. There's
another kit with 7/16" studs, and you have to machine the heads for the
larger studs, but you don't have to worry about the studs snapping off...

>  I love the sound of a rough idle.  Hopefully it'll lope like 4 Harleys
>w/ drag pipes sitting
>  side by side.

heh. I'm building my SX *just* to have that sound...    :)

>> One final thing: whose pistons are you using? You might want to do a check
>> of the actual compression, cc the heads, pistons, deck height, etc. The
>> pistons may be rated 11.0:1, but with some unrealistically small chamber
>> size (say 70cc).
>
> They are TRW Forged pistons 10.4:1 measured using 70 cc heads.  With my
>heads
> milled .030 I figure on getting around 1 point of compression.  Should

Hmmm, that's what I was afraid of. Figuring that the stock big-block
chambers were 80cc (except perhaps some factory-milled "D" heads at 72cc,
but that's never been confirmed), and any valve work you've done would
increase chamber volume, you probably have something more like 9.0:1 with
stock heads, and perhaps almost 10.0:1 with the milled heads (but perhaps
even less). The factory-rated compression is invariably overoptimistic.

With all the work you're doing, I'd go through the extra effort of getting
an exact measurement of your compression ratio. If you are down to about
9.0:1 to 10.0:1 compression, then a wild cam will just bleed off all
cylinder pressure at low revs, and you'd be making less power than a stock
455. :(

Then, you'd have to either mill the head even more for more compression, or
change your cam requirements.

>bring me into
> the neighborhood of 11:1 hopefully.  I live next to a small airport and
>was planning
> on using AV gas, but the machine shop guy told me it would mess up my
>engine.  So
> alternativly there is an oil company about 10 miles away that sells
>Sunoco Racing gas (2.99 per gallon)

I still don't know how AvGas can mess up an internal combustion engine; they
*are* using them on internal combustion engines on the planes, aren't they?
I'd talk to the guys at the airport machine shop and see what magic they
work to keep from messing up their engines while using that demon AvGas.

If you have doubts about it, I'd say you could run a 70/30 AvGas/Sunoco94
mixture without any worries whatsoever.

>> Sounds like a fun ride! One that this "Planter's" would like to be in the
>> saddle of (I'm contemplating how wild my SX should be, since it won't be a
>> daily driver...)
>
> Here's a good rule of thumb..
> If it cant drag the rear bumper on the ground it aint wild enuff! heh.

AMEN.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:06:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance manifolds

At 01:15 AM 12/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Don't forget about the Offy tunnel rams. They can still be purchased with
>both single and dual 4 barrel tops.
>
>With two 600 CFM vacume secondaries, this is an extremely streetable setup.
>In one of my combos with a hydraulic cam I could idle at 850 RPM and make
>good power to 6200 RPM. The mid-range will suprise anybody that has been
>told  tunnel rams won't make good street setups.

Hmmm, what cam did you run that with?

Ah, too bad they don't make them for the Olds small-block; a dual-quad '78
Electra would produce enough contradiction in peoples' minds that it might
just be worth it... ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:52:20 -0400
Subject: (Thanks Everyone)Re: HEI woes

Thanks for all of the responses and suggestions to my original post.  This
list is really a great thing to be a member of.  I did some troubleshooting
on the HEI today and determined that the module is bad.  I bought another
but I ran out of daylight before I could fix the car.  The replacement
module is a GP Soren(sp) and it cost $13.00 at Advanced Auto.  I priced a
pickup coil and it was also $13.  Bob Handren's suggestion about the voltage
regulator was interesting.  I don't know what kind of regulator I have but I
will definitly have to look into it.  I don't think dad ever replaced it,(I
know I haven't) which means it's at least 12 years old so it's probably
still mechanical.  I'll replace it if it is, I don't feel like toasting
another module 3 months down the road.

All the input is greatly appreciated.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:53:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech exclusions

>Jason Adcock wrote:
>>
>> PLEASE don't exclude all VT students from the list!!  I really enjoy the
>> list and I would be devastated (not really, just play along :)) if *we*
>> were excluded.                I'll be a VT student next year! ---> ^^^^
>>
>> Just my $.02...
>>
>>
>               Jason Adcock
>
>
>Jason,
>
>You're forgiven this time my son.  But remember..........
>
>Anon
>Decatur, Alambama
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:39:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Recomendations

Robert J. Barry wrote:


> With all the work you're doing, I'd go through the extra effort of getting
> an exact measurement of your compression ratio. If you are down to about
> 9.0:1 to 10.0:1 compression, then a wild cam will just bleed off all
> cylinder pressure at low revs, and you'd be making less power than a stock
> 455. :(

  I'll definatly take your advice.  Less power!?! ack!  I havent bought
the
  pistons yet.  The block is going to the machine shop tomorrow
afternoon.
  I'll have to mention your concerns.  I definatly wanna do it right the
first time.


     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Culp's Daughter Gone Wrong ;-)

Not much Olds content below, so.... :)

On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
>  My daughter got a '68 Firebird convertible on her 16th birthday.  She
> liked that.  Her new husband sold it though & she got a 3 cyl Chevy w/a
> 5-speed.  I later got her a new Mustang GT & she gave it to husband #2
> in trade for a Honda Accord.
> Where have I gone wrong?  My children grew up & dad is stuck w/the 442
> 4-speed convertibles.  I guess that I'll never learn.

[Tongue-in-cheek mode on]

My condolences. Must be hard to see your child led astray like that. ;-)

In addition to technical advice and parts finding, maybe we should start a
dating service here. I can think of several guys (including me) who would
love to find a lady with an appreciation for Rocket V-8s. Part of the
deal could include a promise never to make her drive a 3-cylinder car...
as long as the new hubby got to drive that 4-4-2 on occasion!

They say that things often skip a generation so if she has kids my advice
is to get to them early on, Bill.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:31:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Saving the good stuff

I just finished catching up, from a 5 day trip. I like the idea of
storing the digests that's why I have been doing it too. My digests go
back as far as 335 to current.

I also have a CD-ROM writer at my disposal and I am willing to help
archive this stuff.

Jeff, if you would like e-mail me and lets compare notes.

Fernando

------------------------------

From: Oly13@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 Toronado

In a message dated 96-12-11 00:03:55 EST, you write:

>The irony here is that it took me a lot of talking to convince my dad that
>his 10 year old son would drive a 21 year old yellow station wagon to high
>school if it was saved 5 or 6 years for him.  Dad was going to give it away
>anyway, but he didn't want more stuff sitting around the house.  Obviously,
>I convinced him to park it in the woods and keep it awhile.  At the time the
>main reason I wanted to keep the car was because it was potentially a free
>set of wheels.  When I got to driving age I realized I had a very unsusual
>car with a 350 V-8, so I was still happy to keep it.  Now I have it and
>wouldn't sell it for anything.  It's interesting how some people just don't
>know what they have.  I guess it just amounts to what people's priorities
>are.
>
>Greg Pruett
>`72 Vista-Cruiser

In 1989 I bought a 1969 Vista Cruiser sight unseen.  It had just 24,000
actual miles on it.
I bought it to 'haul stuff'  In seven years I have driven it an additional
25.000 miles.  The car looks like it just left the dealers lot.  Not a dent,
chip or major scratch.  I now use it primarilly to pull a 19ft speed boat.
 This was a great investment considering what the car cost me in 1989.  The
previous owner had past away seven years prior, and the car sat in a heated
garage.  The son needed monies to pay his taxes, and they were not that high.
 I think this car will serve me well for the next 25 years, and then they can
sell it to pay my estate taxes.  Hopefully this car will win some awards in
Lansing.  Maybe in the origional unrestored catagory

cruisen vistas,

Tommy O.

------------------------------

From: jbosh@cais.cais.com (Jeff Bosh)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:19:41 -0400
Subject: '71 Cutlass Convt. Top Bracket

I just bought a convertible that has a problem with the right side top latch
bracket.  The bracket that holds the knuckle latch gave way and the knuckle
came off.  Anyone know where I can get that bracket?  Please respond to my
e-mail address.
jbosh@cais.com

------------------------------

From: aq302@detroit.freenet.org (Art E. Heckman)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:11:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill's carb X-change &Buick Doors (was:  ADMIN...)

>
>At 06:32 PM 12/4/96 -0400, buehner wrote:
>
>>Back to the interchangeablility (sp?) of the mid 80's Regal/Cutlass doors...
>>I saw a Regal drive by today, and the door did look remarkably familiar to
>>me.  I couldn't get very close to it, but the areas I had in question looked
>>the same.  We may have a new supply of doors after all!  I'll have to dig
>>more, mind you, but it looks better than I'd thought, which is good, 'cuz I
>>need about four of 'em!
>
>Well my Mitchell Interchange Manual goes up to 1979 and it lists the
following: > >These doors interchange >Part No#20055460-61 >Buick Century
78-79 2Dr, Regal >Olds Cutlass 78-79 2Dr, Calais and Supreme > >Part
No#20055462-63 >Buick Century78-79 2Dr, except Regal >Olds Cutlass 78-79 2Dr,
Salon >- - - - - - - - - - - >Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) >Sport Administration Grad Student at Kent State University
>93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23), Lic. Plate: "1FST93Z" >80 Olds
4-4-2  W-30, Lic.Plate:"OLDSPWR" >75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project up
for $sale$ > > > >
                  Guys, It's a Fact, Cutlass and Regal doors are the same
from 81-87. Been there, done it! I don't know about 78-79.
                              Art Heckman

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:45:40 -0400
Subject: 69 442 dash lights

Folks

Just the other night I was going down the road and my instrument pannel
lights(speedo, gas gauge, a/c heater control, shift console gear
indicator) went out. Do any of you know what the problem is?  When the
door is opened, the dome light and the console lights by the floor  will
come on.  When you twist the headlight switch the dome light will come
on.  The map light under the rear view mirror still works.  There is a
new fuse in the fuse box.

Help!?

John Harris
69 442

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:20:31 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Performance 455 intakes?

Charley, and anyone else,

What do you think of the Offy dual port (each port has a primary and
secondary runner)?  I've heard this design limits the R's to about 4500.
Other experiences?  Reply directly or to the list.  Thanks.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -----------

I used an Offy on my Small Blocks.  ~Really~ cool intake.  Had provisions for
an add-on EGR, but would not clear the stock HEI.  I got mine to work with a
bit of grinding tho.  No idea what Offy has for the BB Olds, tho.

My SB Offy was a dual-PORT 360'.  Has isolated runners for primary and
secondaries all the way to the head.  Really neat!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:35:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Culp's Daughter (The 3 cyl eng. connection)

At 07:15 AM 12/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Not much Olds content below, so.... :)
>
>On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
>>  My daughter got a '68 Firebird convertible on her 16th birthday.  She
>> liked that.  Her new husband sold it though & she got a 3 cyl Chevy w/a
>> 5-speed.  I later got her a new Mustang GT & she gave it to husband #2
>> in trade for a Honda Accord.
>> Where have I gone wrong?  My children grew up & dad is stuck w/the 442
>> 4-speed convertibles.  I guess that I'll never learn.
>
>[Tongue-in-cheek mode on]
>
>My condolences. Must be hard to see your child led astray like that. ;-)
>
>In addition to technical advice and parts finding, maybe we should start a
>dating service here. I can think of several guys (including me) who would
>love to find a lady with an appreciation for Rocket V-8s. Part of the
>deal could include a promise never to make her drive a 3-cylinder car...
>as long as the new hubby got to drive that 4-4-2 on occasion!
>
>They say that things often skip a generation so if she has kids my advice
>is to get to them early on, Bill.
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

Re: 3 cylinders

About 15 years ago, I had a 1975 Ch**y 3/4T pickup that was badly over-reved
on a icy roads condition, and natuarlly(sp) two rod bearings failed.  We
found some 3 cylinder engines with Ch**v transmissions attached, and it all
but fell into place.  It didn't have quite the h.p. the V8 that came out
did, but it would probably twist the crank apart on the Chevy where torque
was concerned.  Fuel economy doubled, and it let that truck run out its
normal useful life.  Which proves that GM can produce a useful and even
viable three cylinder engine if they want to.  Also it had an aluminum
block, and wasn't all that heavy.  I think it was 159 cubes too.  Blown too.
Junk yard had the factory radiators, radiator supports and hardware too, and
very little used.  And in the end well worth the $1000. the replacment cost.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: I was amazed

Hi all,

I was amazed this morning while driving to work.  It has been raining
pretty badly in So. Cal. and while on the way to work I got into a
puddle.  Needless to say, hydroplane city....  What I was amazed was
that my speedo was indicating 70 mph and I was going no where!  Of
course one I let up on the gas the car went forward.

I have a question...  Does fishtailing a result of not having posi?
I noticed that my car doesn't seem to tug in any direction when I am
skidding, sliding, hydroplaning whatever.  I seems to me that both
wheels are going.  I know I can get under the car and check this out
for sure, however...

1) the clearance is low
2) my profile is not so thin (ya know after 30...)
3) I don't have risers or a clamping device for the jack.  God forbid
   if I ever get a flat.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:14:51 -0400
Subject: Performance manifolds -Reply

>>> Steven Bettis <bettiss@empnet.com> 12/10/96 11:15pm >>>
Don't forget about the Offy tunnel rams. They can still be purchased with
both single and dual 4 barrel tops.
<snip>

Yeah, I bought one of those used a couple years ago w/ a pair of Holley
650's.  Unfortunately, I was young and naive and I let the guy lie to me.
Said it would fit on my Olds.  I think it's actually for a D*dge.  The
manifold is for sale (cheap), if anyone knows someone with a D*dge that might
want it.

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:22:12 -0400
Subject: motor question

Hey y'all.

Somebody is offering me a running low-miles 394 Olds motor for $200.  I
don't know much about these older motors (and from what I can tell, neither
does the guy trying to sell it).  Is this a real good price?  I can't afford
it now, but if it's a REALLY good deal, I could probably scrape up enough to
buy it.  If I don't get it, and anybody is interested, I'll get them contact
information.

Thanks,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:46:13 -0400
Subject: RE: Performance manifolds -Reply

>Yeah, I bought one of those used a couple years ago w/ a pair of Holley
>650's.  Unfortunately, I was young and naive and I let the guy lie to me.
>Said it would fit on my Olds.  I think it's actually for a D*dge.  The
manifold >is for sale (cheap), if anyone knows someone with a D*dge that might
>want it.

if it will fit a big block then I'd be interested.


Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/
Cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Combination, 1966 Pontiac
GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac
Seville, 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series
75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Crown, 1966 Chrysler Newport (fs),
1972 Ford LTD, 1976 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham, 1966 Pontiac LeMans

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:02:34 -0400
Subject: Re: motor question

If you buy it, you have to get some id off of it for the FAQ :)!  Get a no
crack guarantee or cheaper price, maybe.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ----------
Hey y'all.

Somebody is offering me a running low-miles 394 Olds motor for $200.  I
don't know much about these older motors (and from what I can tell, neither
does the guy trying to sell it).  Is this a real good price?  I can't afford
it now, but if it's a REALLY good deal, I could probably scrape up enough to
buy it.  If I don't get it, and anybody is interested, I'll get them contact
information.

Thanks,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:00:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 442 dash lights

On 11 Dec 96 at 11:45, John Harris wrote:
> Just the other night I was going down the road and my instrument
> pannel lights went out. Do any of you know what the problem is?
> ...There is a new fuse in the fuse box.

John,

I know this sounds really weird, but when I had the same problem with
my '77 Vista Bruiser, I think  problem had to do with either high beam switch
on the floor or the wiring harness connector on the back of the
knob.  To the best of my recollection (it ~was about '86) I jammed
something in the switch to hold it down and the lights would then
work.  Otherwise (I may be suffering from a brain hiccup with the
first suggestion - It looks really weird when I look back at it), try
to wiggle the wires on the harness where they attach to the switch
and see if the lights come on/flash.  Could just be loose.

Good luck!

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

------------------------------

From: Oldsruns@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:44:41 -0400
Subject: Build Help

To the troops:

I am going back to California for a couple of weeks, my family is still
there.  I intend to fly from St. Louis, and drop my engine off on the way.
 The Wiz is going to drop some xeroxs off for me at the machine shop, so I
can kill several birds with one stone.  And St. Louis is 1/2 as far as
Chicago.

I believe that all of the major components in my engine are going to be ok to
use.  The block has considerable ridge, and may need to a little overbore to
use, and of course the engine has 133,000 miles; so everything should be
inspected an renewed as necessary.

I would like to build a little more go into it if I can without making ANY
exterior changes.

Any suggestions:

The last day or two there has been play on a "kit" that coverts the valve
train from non-adjustable to adjustable for example.  Is it worth the bucks
for the improvement?

In a post several days ago, it was suggested using a diesel oil pan gasket
instead of stock, and a F**d rear main seal as they are one piece.  Any
critique, and what are the exact parts.

I deffinitely do NOT want the engine to lope like a Harley, and especially
like 4 Harleys; is there a definitive cam that will give an improvement in
output but one that is smoothrunning, and maybe just a mild grind.

Any special tricks to play with the distributor?

Is there a best gasket set for the rest of the gaskets?

What should I do with the carb?  I am not afraid of putting a kit in it
myself, but would send it to a professional if there is an advantage of doing
that.

How about the tranmission?  It has been setting since 1972.  It is out of the
car, and the oil in the torque converter was gummy, not really oily anymore.

Any other suggestions.  I will be gone for two weeks, and the machine shop
man said that he will be done with it in that time, so I do have some time to
consider what  to do.  It has been suggested that I go off the list while I'm
gone, or run out of my disk space at AOL, the amount of which I have no idea
anyway.  So I am going off until I get back.

I got so much good data the first day I was on this list, I hope you guys can
do it again, and this time in a little more specialized way.

Thanks,

Red Rock
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #399
********************************