To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/18/96 07:13:51 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #335


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 18 October 1996      Volume 01 : Number 335


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:01:18 -0300
Subject: Re: No more great cars(not really olds related) 

In a message dated 96-10-17 06:48:00 EDT, you write:

> Think about it: an Aurora-powered C/S with vinyl buckets, 
>  manual windows and locks, nice tires and suspension, maybe a sound 
>  system... think that would sell?
>  

Vinyl?  Maybe leather.  Would there be room somewhere for the 8track to play
the ABBA tapes?

Paul

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:02:49 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 Sites and decode

Gerald,
Your VIN indicates a 71 442 coupe made in Lansing. I don't know what a RIN is.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:25:16 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info 

>
>	I was wondering if you toro guys could give me some information 
>on  this type of olds.  A friend of mine is selling her '85 toro caliente and 
     <snip>

     Well, I'm not one of the ~dedicated~ Toro guys, but I'll give you my
$0.00386 worth, anyway (two cents before taxes).
     As I recall, those were some pretty classy cars.  Puts the Caddys to
shame.  (what doesn't?) For a grand, I'd say go for it.  If it's in as
decent shape as you say, it sounds like a good deal.  If the motor craps
out, a 403 will likely bolt right in :)  (what engine's in it now?)  Anyway,
good luck!

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:25:14 -0300
Subject: EGR and Carb (was ...403's- Complaint...) 

>I'd also like to make the throttle-response more linear, rather than having
>60% of the power come on in only the last 10% of throttle travel. I'm going
>to try a different vacuum break for the air valve, as I think the factory
>one has too much dampening (tuned to avoid a bog, the secondaries don't kick
>in for about a second-and-a-half; which seems like forever when you're
>merging...).

Keep in mind that the secondary air vanes are adjustable.  Just under the
linkage for the vac. break is a tiny allen lock-screw (pointing upwards)
that holds pressure against the spring loaded adjustment.  You can see a
flat screw through one of the openings in the linkage (for the vac. break)
You can play with this to your heart's content, although the specs usually
say to tighten a certain amount after the spring contacts the linkage.  I've
had really good luck with all of mine, and I don't use a vacuum break at
all.  It's a thought.  Good luck.


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:25:29 -0300
Subject: Re: No more great cars(not really olds related) 

>  Know what?  My '83 Delta 88 (307/TH350), my 88 Grand Fury (318/TF904), 
>and my '71 Olds (350/TH400) all do it just fine.  Instead of 20mpg around 
>town I get 14-15.  On the highway I average(d) 23-27 in all of the above 
cars.  

I don't see how how youcan even get 23 with your '71.  I get 17 highway 
at best with my '72 350 2bbl cutlass wagon.  Any tips for bettering my MPG?

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:31:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Blown Head Gaskets compressed 

In a message dated 96-10-17 13:08:20 EDT, you write:

<< Anyone know where the thin steel shim head gaskets can be obtained? >>

Stock olds head gaskets were .017 when compressed.  The only thing 
close enough is the Detroit Gasket.  When it is compressed it measuers
.028.  That is better than the Felpros and McCords that measure
.038 when compressed.  Unfortunatly the orig steel gaskets are not 
availible from the dealer, and I haven't found anybody with a stash of head
gaskets either.  So I hope this helps. BTW Mondello's head gaskets are the
Detroit Gaskets that I buy direct from a local Auto Parts Store and also
cheaper
in cost.

W Machines

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:37:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>Hey...I worked with a guy at a radio station in Colorado who once 
>worked at KOJM in Havre.

     Cool... Small world?  I hope he drove an Olds!    :)

     ---Charley in crappy, cold, near snowing Havre, MT! (Can't believe
you'd even ~use~ the word "sunny"!!) I'm so jealous!   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:34:10 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info

Barnacle Bill wrote:
> Bill,
>         I was wondering if you toro guys could give me some information
> on  this type of olds.  A friend of mine is selling her '85 toro caliente and
Top of the line Toro for that year. Does it have a Bose Stereo?
> I am condsidering buying it for a winter car so I can store my '85
> cutlass.  I do a lot of driving as I deliver pizzas for the local pizza
> joint.  I was wondering if the front wheel drive handles or gets better
> traction in the snow than my rwd cutlass.Excellent traction in snow. 
>         I know I'm setting myself up for some biased opinions here but
> I'd like to hear them anyway.
>         The toro has under 90k miles on the engine, a semi-new tranny
> with under 10k miles(not sure of this milage), leather interior,
> sunroof, new exhuast and brakes.  Just needs a heater core ($300-400 she
> says).  Her boyfriend's father is a mechanic and has been servicing this
> car for years and she says it's in great running condition.  I don't
> doubt that, since my cutlass is in great shape also.  Asking price $1000.
If a V8 gas, buy it. 
>         Let me know what you think.  Thanks.
> I'm also in on the Car Craft deal.  I wrote them a letter a month ago
> asking for more Olds in the mag.  I doubt we'll see it unless our plan
> goes through.Reggie Goble
> 
> Bill Reilly  wreilly@acad.bryant.edu
> '85 Cutlass Supreme
> Maybe an '85 Toro in the future.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:40:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Blah-Blah-Woof-Woof 

>In a message dated 96-10-17 10:01:49 EDT, you write:
>
>>  The new emblem is a cicle with the newly
>>  designed rocket symbol heading in the "right" direction.
>
     Now is that "right" as opposed to left?
>
>Paul
>Heading toward the Chevrolet direction
     Ouch, how dare you!  
Charley, stuck in the past, and heading ~that~ direction!  :)  (Ya all know
about me and bowties!)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:44:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter 

In a message dated 96-10-17 13:08:24 EDT, you write:

<< There is a new editor of W-Machines, the chapter newsletter.  The last
issue
 was gangbusters with a lot of excellent info on the '66 model year.  

IMO the Performance offers two major benefits.  An annual show for
performance Oldsmobiles separate from the OCA Nats (where I feel they were
less than happy this year to see modified Olds' than in previous years) and
the newsletter.  In a somewhat lesser manner you have access to very
knowledgeable people.>>

So you know Mark Cornea, member number 0003.  The OPC has lost touch
with the performance cars.  I remember in 1987 the OPC meet was held in
Columbus at the race track, where we raced our Oldsmobiles.  Know it is 
er well there is two tracks nearby about 30 min drive and you can race there
if you want to.  1/8 or 1/4 racing, but sorry the club pres cant be there and
most
of the clubs staff.  Phooey, Olds is Performance, J-2 to W-machines.  Also 
the new club letter is wrong by saying Vol 1 N0. 1.  That was used about 12
years
ago or better. The only thing I can say is that people into performance with
there oldsmobiles should attend the MONDELLO OLDS NATIONALS at 
NORWALK RACEWAY in NORWALK OHIO on the third weekend of July 1997.


W MACHINES
2  1972 442 W-30's 
X in the Vins

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:20:38 -0300
Subject: Internet Message  

>Would there be room somewhere for the 8track to play
>the ABBA tapes?

No, no...it's Andy Gibb and Shaun Cassidy.  Get it right!  <g>

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:50:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds, Racing, Advertising, etc MPG 

In a message dated 96-10-17 15:27:33 EDT, you write:

<< Now consider the big three cant keep up with truck 
 production. I believe the Chevy Suburban gets less than 10MPG >>

I own a 94 Chevy Suburban, My MPG is about 14 in the city and 16 on the 
Highway.  It is a 1500 series with 4WD and trailer tow package.  The engine
is a 5.7 liter,  Now I know that my dad's 84 Chevy truck got about 10MPG
but thats where technology took over to make the new engines breathe better

W MACHINES
2 72 442 W-30'S
1 Chevy Suburban

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:00:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Blah-Blah-Woof-Woof

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  The new emblem is a cicle with the newly
> >  designed rocket symbol heading in the "right" direction.
> 
> Oh, please.  What cutsie college marketing grad thought that one up?

PhMW - Doctor of Marketing Weenie-ism

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:56:40 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info

Barnacle Bill wrote:

> I was wondering if the front wheel drive handles or gets better
> traction in the snow than my rwd cutlass.

It does.  Simple weight bias.  Front engined cars are nose heavy since 
that's where most of the metal is.  Having the majority of the weight 
over the driving wheels provides better traction.  Besides, you won't 
have to go scrounging for cement blocks or sandbags anymore.

> Asking price $1000.

Sounds like a deal to me.  We even let you in the Toro list.  ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:03:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Blown Head Gaskets compressed 

Up your ass please get me off this bullshit olds mail shit

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:05:22 -0300
Subject: Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile" 

Well let me tell you when you get your stock anything olds to go a 12.68
through the exhaust with G-78-14 tires than we'll talk until then eat shit

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:44:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>>Hey...I worked with a guy at a radio station in Colorado who once 
>>worked at KOJM in Havre.

    >Cool... Small world?  I hope he drove an Olds!    :)

Actually, I think he had drove this crummy little Dodge Omni.  He was 
a BIG guy (we're talking 300+ pounds), so he looked ridiculous in it. 
 I kept telling him he'd look good in a Delta 88, but he wouldn't 
listen! <g>


>---Charley in crappy, cold, near snowing Havre, MT! (Can't believe
>you'd even ~use~ the word "sunny"!!) I'm so jealous!   :)

Don't feel bad, Charley.  I'm originally from Minnesota.  You 
couldn't PAY me enough to go back to Minnesota winters.  I tried it 
once (good $$ job), but I was back down here within 11 months!

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 Current Temperature = 74 degrees

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:38:27 -0300
Subject: Internet Message  

>I don't see how how youcan even get 23 with your '71.  I get 17 
highway 
>at best with my '72 350 2bbl cutlass wagon.  Any tips for bettering 
my MPG?

The early 70s GMs are gas hogs, no doubt about it!  I had a '73 Buick 
Century with just a 350-2V (the base engine in those years) that gave 
10-12MPG in town and an average of 14 on the road.  Only once did I 
hit 15, and I religiously keep track of gas mileage.

Fuel economy seemed to improve dramatically in about 77-78.  My 77 
Cutlass (the same size and weight as the Century, and with a 4V 
version of the 350) did significantly better...16-17 in town, and 21-
22 on the highway.  Why?  Did it have something to do with the newer 
engines being designed differently for unleaded gas?

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: Tucker@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:17:33 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info 

If you don't your really an asshole

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:58:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Project: Olds Craft 

>     OK, here's a question to all on the list.  We're trying to make this 
>     an Olds Craft thing, but I am equally pi***d that they never have the 
>     other real cars in there, Buicks and Pontiacs.  For those of us that 
>     may have some of these 

I agree and this coming from a Chevy guy at heart. I get sick of opening up
every page and seeing 69 Camaro this and 70 Chevelle that. And of course
when you do see and Olds it is powered by a TPI Chevy almost always. Maybe
we should gather our resources and start our own magazine kind of like the
one they had before for BOP. 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:24:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Blown Head Gaskets compressed

Tucker@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Up your ass please get me off this bullshit olds mail shit


I believe you will be kicked off before you can even figuire out how do 
unsubscribe!!

Good ridance!

Sparky
- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:24:57 -0300
Subject: Re: The EGR system on 403's- Complaint (and solution)

> as "near WOT"  I may stand corrected.  Then again, at WOT, there is an
> equally high preignition problem, which is calmed by the EGR, so that is a

Although adding exhaust gases to the mixture would probably reduce the
tendency for 'pre-ignition', I think it is more a matter of why have EGR
in the first place.  The extra spark advance associated with EGR equipped
cars is to improve driveability and efficiency; when EGR flow is
insufficient, spark knock can occur.  The emissions standards are for
part-throttle/cruise conditions and do not regulate WOT, hence there
should be no need for EGR flow at WOT.

> venturi vaccuum port is much more suitable for EGR.  Some makes have the EGR

The theoretical reasoning that higher RPMs can tolerate more EGR flow is
sound, however, in practice this would lead to poor driveability.  The
engineering goal of any emissions control device is to pass the
regulations and maintain acceptable operation.  Why reduce NOx emissions
during heavy throttle conditions when it isn't necessary?  

> vaccuum source will give such a relationship.  Strict ported will give a
> large vac. source at low off idle, and then drop, and then slowly start to
> rise a bit, depending on acceleration conditions.  So, when you mash the gas

EGR valves usually require at least 3" Hg to keep them open.  This
description of the vacuum levels associated with a ported source sounds
right.  In addition, the slow 'secondary' rise in vacuum when airflow
through the bore(s) increases is not that much (the throttle plates are
no longer positioned to direct airflow past the ports in the throttle
bores), and is insufficient to induce an EGR valve to open.

> is manifold vaccuum (true) and that any port on the carb is ported vaccuum
> ("ported thru the carb, right?")  Don't make this assumption.  I spent about

You know how many 'mechanics' assume this?  <g>

> I'm also not sure whether the EGR is the backpressure type or not (there are
> only two channels at the EGR port; does that make a difference?); it is the

The two port design seems to be pretty standard (in and out).  The
backpressure models have a hollow shaft which allow exhaust gas to
influence the effect of the vacuum signal applied.  For instance, in
positive backpressure designs, exhaust backpressure closes a vacuum bleed;
this system would mitigate the onset of EGR.
 
> I'd also like to make the throttle-response more linear, rather than having
> ...
> (besides, my current Q-jet flattens out anyway...).

Before you start modifying the vacuum break, make sure that the power
system in your Q-jet is functioning properly.  It is possible to see the
top of the main metering rod hanger through the fuel bowl pipe at the
front.  The power piston should not bind; perhaps yours is stuck in the
intermediate or downward position.  Since this is independent of the
secondary metering system, it may explain why so much throttle is needed
for additional power.  You can also put a stiffer power piston spring in
there so that fuel enrichment comes on earlier (i.e. at a higher vacuum
level, since the spring tension works against a vacuum signal), although
the reverse is usually desired for when a high performance cam is used,
and very little vacuum is available which causes the carb to run rich all
the time.  How about trying different metering rods?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:28:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Project: Olds Craft  

While its probably saying a bad word, there is a list for Camaro-Firebird
enthusiasts that incorporates the Pontiac cousins.  The Buick Club of
America is pretty big - they out to have someone represented on one of the
two lists mentioned.

Why not send out picture/captions not only to Car Craft (oops, or whoever
we're sending them all to - I do TOO pay attention) to OLDSMOBILE, to stress
what we think is MISSING, not just performance but Class??   NUMBERS do get
their attention, and if we say we represent a Potential buying quotient,
that would be good for at least 15 seconds of stop & think....?

I resented when they changed their logo script back in the early '70's to
that whimpy style fancy handwriting that reminded me of school that's on my
'72 V-C.   The new O (or whatever that truly is) is like a neutralized
version of the handwriting cr*p.  

I'm not that old but I remember "Business Coupes" that were - bare bones
models for those types who didnt have or want the BIG dollars to spend on
options.  What, those people dont exist anymore - oh Please (I'm a charter
member). 

Just like politics - they feed you what they want you to think...not what is
the truth - 
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:34:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Blah-Blah & more blah 

Come on - who CAN ignore that nice looking Impala they 'revived'?  Who's to
say that a 'revived' Toronado for a couple of years might not be a boost or
shot in the arm?  How many yuppie-yippies didnt admire them way back when &
would buy one this time around?  I actually have those yuppie-yippies reply
in amazement "Your wagon is a SEVENTY TWO?" cause it looks like *new* to
them.  I call their mandatory Toyota Camry's "Disposable Cars" cause who's
gonna buy 'em 10 years from now cause they admired them now......(P.S. they
have no answer  for that - they'll be trading it in in 3 yrs. anyway).

There is an Enormous body of morons out there who dont think they can go
back & buy the ***great*** cars - but who might not by revamped - stylized
newer versions (like those Impalas I really would have like to have bought - !)

More blah & ranting....we're on a roll tonight.
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:42:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Blah-Blah - again 

So I'm a little confused - are they going to even attempt to have
Performance in any fashion in Olds' future - ?  I'm certain it wont be Viper
material - or even BMW's Z-3 level of thinking.....

I grew up on a street where we were over-Chevy'd but ya know - they had
their plus' too.  But the sharpest car on the block = not counting my '67
C/S convert = was a '66 Plymouth Sport Fury, that car was gorgeous & quick
and definately not run of the milll - !  It outclassed, in its own way - the
2 Hemi Cuda's hidden in the Furuya's garage, and put the 2 '69 & 2 '70
Chevelle SS-396's & 454's to pasture as well.  We had a cool street though -
we were performance oriented!

Missing the 'good old days' - definately -
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:52:11 -0300
Subject: Gas mileage  (was ...Internet Message?) 

>The early 70s GMs are gas hogs, no doubt about it!  I had a '73 Buick 

     When I had first gotten the GranSport, my roommate had a longing to get
his Skylark back.  (It'd been sitting/rotting/waiting to find a back
bumper/killing weeds/etc.)  I sold him part of my spare parts car and got
his going.  My '71 bumper weighed at least three times what his weighed
('72).  The GS is a '70.  (Both A bodies/Skylark platform; basically
identical cars)  Mine has a 455, his a 350.  Enough leading info...
     He had a family reunion to go to out in the "mountains" here.  We both
left with full  (identical) tanks, and caravanned out there. (50 to 70 miles
out there, I don't recall)  We caravanned back that evening, and both stayed
around 70-75 most of the way.  I used 1/4 tank (w/455) and he used 1/2 tank
(350) for the trip!  I'd get 18 mpg fairly consistantly with the beast, and
I think he figured he was getting around 10...  I kinda liked that option!   
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:52:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>Actually, I think he had drove this crummy little Dodge Omni.  He was 
>a BIG guy (we're talking 300+ pounds), so he looked ridiculous in it. 
> I kept telling him he'd look good in a Delta 88, but he wouldn't 
>listen!

     Seems to me I remember some guy from the radio station who drove a
brownish rust orange Toyota thing. It was one of those minivan/4 wheel drive
things, I think, tho.  Description fits, anyway!  
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:52:16 -0300
Subject: tucker@aol.com 

     Anybody been following this guy?  	I think somebody peed in his
cheerios or something.  Lighten up, dude.  If you're that uptight, go to the
corner of the bathroom and take matters into your own hand!  Oh, and if
anyone happens to accidentally misspell your name, don't think it might have
anything to do with your previous posts.  So what do ~you~ have that runs
12's through stock exhaust on street tires?  Are we talking 1/8 here?  I'm
normally not cynical or even all that much of a "goody-goody" type, and I've
been known to inject a less than proper term here and there on the list, but
your posts have been childish and rude to every conceivable nature.  Oh, and
I believe you missed a comma in that last post I read.  I'll correct it for
you:  Somebody get [him] off this Olds list~,~  shit!  He belongs on
something like alt.fetish.childish.fords or something.
     If that's already been done, we'll have to all sign this as a going
away card and foreward it to him.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:52:13 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info 

>If you don't your really an asshole

     uhh, is this another Toro flame war beginning?  Or is this jeapordy...
What ~was~ the question being answerred here?  (I'd hope it's the question
of whether or not to buy the Toro, but it's a little blatant...  Besides, if
he (or she...) can manage to type "subscribe oldsmobile," he can't be all
~that~ bad  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:26:44 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

He's already gone, so there's no need to flame our friend tucker. Makes 
you wonder why someone would join a private list to do something like 
that... 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:38:32 -0300
Subject: Re: need toro info

Charlie sez:
>      Well, I'm not one of the ~dedicated~ Toro guys, but I'll give you my
> $0.00386 worth, anyway (two cents before taxes).
>      As I recall, those were some pretty classy cars.  Puts the Caddys to
> shame.  (what doesn't?) 

Sounds like sour grapes, Charlie! :)



Tim (Whose Cars Sport Rockets & Crests) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:33:06 -0300
Subject: 66 Toronado For Sale

All, 

Got this in last night from Phil Wyatt:
 
> Is there any place you'd suggest where I could sell my 1966 Toronado? 
> It is a car that should be owned by a true Toro buff.  I fear that I 	
> am not despite a pretty spectacular 35,000 original miles beauty.
>
> Phil Wyatt --	pwyatt@wyatt.com

WHOA!  Sounds like a *real* good one.  Anyone?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:24:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>Seems to me I remember some guy from the radio station who drove a
>brownish rust orange Toyota thing. It was one of those minivan/4 
wheel drive
>things, I think, tho.  Description fits, anyway!  

His name was Craig Erickson.  He would have been there from...I'm 
thinking 1987-90.


- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:00:43 -0300
Subject: Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

Katana72@aol.com wrote:

> ...but a car usually reflects the personality of it's owner and I am a 
> little bit different than the rest!!!!!

Couldn't agree more.  See http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/fredrick.htm 
for my plans for the Toronado.

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:09:13 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

buehner wrote:
> 
> Anybody been following this guy?   
> ...sign this as a going away card and foreward it to him.

Given the fact that he has a AOL account, it wouldn't 
be that tough to stuff his mailbox ...daily.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:14:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

Hi,

  A few days ago someone mentioned that Buick came out with a "Grand National"
car and implied good things about it.  I thought about this one and remember
being challenged by one.  The song "Another one bites the dust..." comes to
mind when I viewed him in my rear view mirror.

Boy I love my car.  I have only had it since January.  I sure want to keep
this puppy forever!

Chris Sparks
csparks@aisf.com
(68 442 Sports Coupe, Automatic)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:11:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Blah-Blah-Woof-Woof (Rant Mode On!) 

>Second question: who the heck *is* Heidi anyway? John Rock's niece or 
>something? And what is she doing on AOL? Does she speak for Olds? What 
>does their communications division have to say about her? It all seems 
>rather strange.... I have visions of a freckle-faced blond kid in 
>pigtails and glasses or whatever. Kind of strange.

I think this should have been the _first_ question. I don't know what
Mike's original message to her read so I have to take her response at
face value with no background, but as far as I can tell, it was someone
probably not acting in an official capacity even though she meant well.
I'm concluding this from the lack of any proofreading in the letter, the
extensive misspelled words, her apparent unfamiliarity with the product
line (I got the distinct impression that certain sentences had been copied
from someone else's press release) and the completely unprofessional,
borderline-incoherent signature. Unless this is the sole means of getting
feedback from the Olds web site (um, this _was_ from the Olds web site?
Not some AOL forum?), I'd forget about it...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mikek@net.bluemoon.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:36:45 -0300
Subject: Looking for '86 442 wheels

I recently had my '86 olds 442 stolen.  They took my stereo and some
other assorted things, but they also left me with no WHEELS.  I am
looking for a complete set in Excellent Condition.  If any one has them
or knows where I might find them please E-mail me at
mikek@net.bluemoon.net

Thanks,


Mike Kurzdorfer

mikek@net.bluemoon.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:09:13 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com

buehner wrote:
> 
> Anybody been following this guy?   
> ...sign this as a going away card and foreward it to him.

Given the fact that he has a AOL account, it wouldn't 
be that tough to stuff his mailbox ...daily.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:06:15 -0300
Subject: Wasn't the "@" Car Show Symbol Our Idea? 

Thought this might be of interest to long-time Olds list readers
(who may have better memories than me, too). I also subscribe to
the Old-Time Radio Digest, for fans of old-time radio ("OTR") --
Jack Benny, Suspense, Lone Ranger, etc.

So anyway, they were all discussing how to recognize each other at one 
of the upcoming national conventions in order to meet others from the
Digest list, and I suggested using an "@" symbol on the nametags,
'cause I _think_ the Olds list is where I stole this idea from (but
yes, I did mention this list at the time. Dunno if anyone from there
has subscribed here because of it). (If no one here wants to claim 
credit, then I must have been thinking of the British Cars List from 
a long time ago.) Anyway, the idea caught on:

>Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:17:52 -0700
>From: Jim Widner <jwidner@infinet.com>
>To: old.time.radio@airwaves.com
>Subject: FOTR Convention - Day 1
>
>Well, Day 1 of the Friends of Old Time Radio Convention is now history.
[...]
>As is usual, this convention was very crowded (it is the largest otr
>convention) and it was really great being among so many with like
>interests. I have run into a few of the Digesters, but am still
>searching out others. From what I observed of the number of @ stickers
>taken from the reservation table, there is not as many here as I
>thought.  The next few days will see.

The Olds list ideas work in all sorts of mysterious ways.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:20:55 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: The EGR system on 403's- Info 

I checked my '78 Chassis Manual last night.  You probably have the 
backpressure EGR.  Externally, the shank part of the valve makes a turn 
instead of being straight.  And internally different - hollow stem, etc. 
It should not operate at WOT.

The spec calls for the valve to stay closed until 2" vacuum is applied.  It 
is fully open at 8.5" vacuum.  Vacuum source is ported vacuum. I did not 
check the carb diagram for the ported source, and don't have my '77 with 
today.  I'll post Monday if no one else does.

My '77 D88 403 w/2.41 gears runs fine, I would think yours would also.  I'm 
just
restating here what you already know, but I think there is a problem 
somewhere. 
Either component failure or substandard component performance or assembled 
wrong.

With my '77, I notice there is a large difference in acceleration between 
first 
and second gear, although thrid seem pretty good (better than second).  Second 
is pretty flat.  I think the problem is the second gear ratio in the TH350.  
Probably too close to 1:1 (third).

Your experiences will help me out when I rebuild my 403.  BTW, what are your 
cam's specs again (dur, lift @.050", overlap,etc)?  I remember the "street 
gears" discussion and know hi-po 403's used .472 in/ex lift cams, but would 
like
to tap your experience in this area.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -----------
It is hooked up to ported vacuum, but that's the factory setup. I haven't
mapped out the vacuum ports on the Q-jet, but I'm certain that the EGR is
not supposed to be functioning at WOT <snip>

I'm also not sure whether the EGR is the backpressure type or not (there are
only two channels at the EGR port; does that make a difference?); it is the
original, as far as I can tell, and is definitely not sticking. I can't find
any specs on what vacuum level it is supposed to open it, so I can't test it
with my vacuum pump. <snip>

I think the problem is especially acute on the 403's, because the mixture
under part throttle at low rpms in that huge bore can't be all that
homogenous. I'd imagine just about every 403 faces this problem, since the
majority were installed in full-size cars with 2.56 gears that probably
never exceeded 1500rpm in everyday driving.
<snip>
- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:17:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The EGR system on 403's- Info 

>I checked my '78 Chassis Manual last night.  You probably have the 
>backpressure EGR.
[...]
>It should not operate at WOT.

Neither did the later ported design on my '82. The line of reasoning was
that at WOT, everything else was off the charts ECM-wise anyhow and the
system went simply for bat-out-of-hell acceleration. Don't know where I
could find the quote now, but this was from a service manual that described
it in really dry, technical terms, as they were afraid to admit what a 
great blast of power you could achieve.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:38:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

At 11:14 AM 10/18/96 -0300, Chris Sparks wrote:
>Hi,
>
>  A few days ago someone mentioned that Buick came out with a "Grand National"
>car and implied good things about it.  I thought about this one and remember
>being challenged by one.  The song "Another one bites the dust..." comes to
>mind when I viewed him in my rear view mirror.

Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN. An 86 or 87
Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442, excepton is a very
hot and humid day (turbo not as effective). 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:48:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

I wrote:
>Hi,
>
>  A few days ago someone mentioned that Buick came out with a "Grand National"
>car and implied good things about it.  I thought about this one and remember
>being challenged by one.  The song "Another one bites the dust..." comes to
>mind when I viewed him in my rear view mirror.
 
Jason Labay wrote:
> Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN. An 86 or 87
> Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442, excepton is a very
> hot and humid day (turbo not as effective). 

No it wasn't a grandma, it was a young kid (Under 30).  I did cheat though.
I had just filled my gas tank with 92 octane gas along with a full bottle of
104+ octane booster, along with turning my air filter pan's lid upside down
so that my car could breathe.  But still I beat him by quite a bit in less than
a quarter mile (I have to check this distance for sure).  This kid was engaging
me to race him... So I did.  Maybe he gave up after I intimidated him with my
car..... :-)

Chris 

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:05:00 -0300
Subject: '69 Engine Compartment

Glenn,

Last night I was going through my Oldsmobile stuff, and ran across my owners 
manual for my '69 Cutlass.  I haven't looked at it in a while, and started 
thumbing through it.  just past the middle of the manual is a detailed view 
of the engine compartment, completely identifying the most common 
maintenance locations of the engine.  It is THE best picture I've seen to 
date.  Do you have an owners manual?  If you don't, I'll be glad to make a 
copy of that photo for you as well, and send it to you.

ps. What condition is your engine compartment in, if I might ask?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:07:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Chris Sparks wrote:

> Jason Labay wrote:
> > Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN. An 86 or 
87
> > Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442, excepton is a very
> > hot and humid day (turbo not as effective). 
> 
> No it wasn't a grandma, it was a young kid (Under 30).  I did cheat though.
> I had just filled my gas tank with 92 octane gas along with a full bottle of
> 104+ octane booster, along with turning my air filter pan's lid upside down
> so that my car could breathe.  But still I beat him by quite a bit in less 
than
> a quarter mile (I have to check this distance for sure).  This kid was 
engaging
> me to race him... So I did.  Maybe he gave up after I intimidated him with my
> car..... :-)

It must have been a carburated '82 GN with regular unleaded.  Either that
or your engine isn't stock...
 
- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:14:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>His name was Craig Erickson.  He would have been there from...I'm 
>thinking 1987-90.
>
     He still is, I'm listenning to him right now.  Cool...  No idea what he
looks like or drives, tho.  Really good on radio, tho.  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:14:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National 

..."Grand National"
>car and implied good things about it.  I thought about this one and remember
>being challenged by one.  The song "Another one bites the dust..." comes to
>mind when I viewed him in my rear view mirror....
>
They could do some pretty impressive things with those little 6's, tho.
Remember "Tweaked" the '83 GN that would run 7's at over 170?!!  I found it
on the net many months ago and it is in the Oct. Popular HotRodding now.
They titled the article "Texas Terror" but didn't show the personallized
plates "TWEAKED"  Nasty machine, and kinda sharp, too.  It'd look a lot
better with a little Rocket in between two grilles, tho ;)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:03:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National 

>Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN.
>An 86 or 87 Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442,
>exception is a very hot and humid day (turbo not as effective).

You might even come across a GNX sometime. 1 of, what, 500? made,
with a supercharger instead of a turbo. Most likely will be black,
looks like a GN at first glance save for some rather substantial,
functional, body-colored air dumps in the front fenders which look 
like oversized versions of the usual Buick Ventiport trim. There's
one at the Buick dealer in Glenview, IL; they've been trying to sell
it for what seems like _years_ now for $35K or something like that...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 04:50:00 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996
Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com> wrote:
<snip>
<<Lets' face facts, Oldsmobile.  You've lost market share because you
<<stopped building road cars and, with few exceptions, started building
<<undistinguished crap.  Most Oldsmobiles built in the last few year are
<<about as distinctive as a brown paper bag.

<<Pssst...  Hey, Olds!  Have you looked at some of the cars Chrysler is
<<building?  The Viper?  That retro-thing?  Did you see the new Bug
<<Volkswagen is building?  You better wake up and smell the exhaust fumes
<<...before the Aurora becomes just another corporate sedan.

My thoughts exactly.  For several years, in fact.  I'll bet that felt good 
to get off your chest, because I know I enjoyed reading it.  Whatever 
happened to Oldsmobile being the pioneer in automotive technology.  Take 
your Toro for instance (well maybe not, you might not appreciate that), 
Toronados pioneering the front wheel drive.  One of the most peculiar sites 
I ever saw, years ago, was a Toro at the track with slicks on the front 
wheels, and smoke pouring out of the front as it went through pre-stage 
burnouts.  It did some serious butt-kicking that night as I remember.  And 
the Rocket V-8, being a serious dominator at the track in the '50's & early 
'60s.  It's almost like The Beatles (and I love the Beatles) going for 20 
years trying to convince everyone they weren't Beatles anymore.  Hey, it's 
what made them famous, and that's what the people wanted most.  Go with the 
flow, give us what we want, not what everyone else is doing.  When will they 
realize that spending all those boo-koo bucks on designs that are so similar 
from year to year, and can be passed off for nearly any model with only a 
symbol to differentiate them, is not always the answer.  I hate to say it, 
but look at F*rd, when they brought out the new Mustang, they based most of 
their ad campaign on its nostalgia, and muscle (or lack of...sorry I had to 
say that...I just had to).  At least they had the right idea.  What would it 
hurt to give that a try again.  There is a whole bunch of us here in the 
U.S., Canada, etc.. that are waiting, with only Oldsmobiles automotive past 
to romance.  I seriously don't think I could ever have a fraction of the 
pride that I have had in the older models (pre-robotic assembly lines), for 
the new line of Olds out now.  I have toured a GM assembly plant, here in 
Wentzville (just outside of St. Louis), and have seen how they are 
assembled.  It's just not quite the same, but I am getting away from the 
point.
I once had an idea that I thought would be pretty neat:  What would stop 
them from producing one, or even a number of reproduction cars 
of...say...the muscle car years.  I mean actually reproducing the exact body 
style, slightly modified to todays safety standards, with the best of todays 
engine technology and drive-train.  They could even go back and say  "ya, 
this was a great car, but if we could do it all over again, we could include 
this, this this, this...and improve this, this, this, and this.  Think of 
the possibilities.

Jeff Zeilmann (stepping off his soapbox)
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:22:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National 

  This kid was engaging
>> me to race him... So I did.  Maybe he gave up after I intimidated him with 
my
>> car..... :-)
>
>It must have been a carburated '82 GN with regular unleaded.  Either that
>or your engine isn't stock...

The moral of ~this~ story:  Some kids can't drive?  :)
    You didn't happen to notice a grinding high pitch whine *(not from the
kid!)* and a loud rap-rap-rap coming from under his hood, did ya?  
     So how bad did ya beat him?  (his name wasn't tucker, was it?!)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:26:17 -0300
Subject: Re.: Wasn't the "@" Car Show Symbol Our Idea?(fwd)

This bounced, no idea why... but here it is again.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:18:34 -0300
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
To: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Wasn't the "@" Car Show Symbol Our Idea?
From:	"Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

Thought this might be of interest to long-time Olds list readers
(who may have better memories than me, too). I also subscribe to
the Old-Time Radio Digest, for fans of old-time radio ("OTR") --
Jack Benny, Suspense, Lone Ranger, etc.

So anyway, they were all discussing how to recognize each other at one 
of the upcoming national conventions in order to meet others from the
Digest list, and I suggested using an "@" symbol on the nametags,
'cause I _think_ the Olds list is where I stole this idea from (but
yes, I did mention this list at the time. Dunno if anyone from there
has subscribed here because of it). (If no one here wants to claim 
credit, then I must have been thinking of the British Cars List from 
a long time ago.) Anyway, the idea caught on:

>Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:17:52 -0700
>From: Jim Widner <jwidner@infinet.com>
>To: old.time.radio@airwaves.com
>Subject: FOTR Convention - Day 1
>
>Well, Day 1 of the Friends of Old Time Radio Convention is now history.
[...]
>As is usual, this convention was very crowded (it is the largest otr
>convention) and it was really great being among so many with like
>interests. I have run into a few of the Digesters, but am still
>searching out others. From what I observed of the number of @ stickers
>taken from the reservation table, there is not as many here as I
>thought.  The next few days will see.

The Olds list ideas work in all sorts of mysterious ways.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:24:47 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Book

I just received in the mail today (Friday, the 18th) my copy of the book 
by Helen Earley and James R. Walkinshaw that Oldsmobile division is 
sending to all members of Oldsmobile car clubs.  The book is entitled 
"Setting the Pace - Oldsmobiles First 100 Years," and it is, in a word, 
stunning.  I am very impressed, and I'm sure this would set you back at 
least $40 or $50 at the local Waldenbooks, if they had it.

The book is published on glossy paper, in hard cover with gold lettering
engraved on a red vinyl covering.  The paper jacket has photos on the 
front and the new Olds logo prominent at the upper left.  The book 
is full of photos, maps, charts, copies of old documents, and so forth.
It'll undoubtedly be THE definitive history of Oldsmobile for some 
years to come.

Included in the box was a generic letter from John Rock, head of 
Oldsmobile division, explaining the purpose of the book.

I'll be interested to know what other OCA, NAOC, and Curved Dash club 
members think when they receive their copy.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:37:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

> They could do some pretty impressive things with those little 6's, tho.

Any car, even Hondas, with light weights can do impressive times and speeds.
I believe my 68 442 is probably over 3200 pounds (I really don't know for 
sure).
If I had an all fiberglass body and trimmed some of the weight off, I too
could do impressive things.  I feel that a car with twice the HP as another
car with 1/2 the weight are probably equally rated, with some exceptions for
possible torque differences.

> Remember "Tweaked" the '83 GN that would run 7's at over 170?!!  I found it

Damn...

> on the net many months ago and it is in the Oct. Popular HotRodding now.
> They titled the article "Texas Terror" but didn't show the personallized
> plates "TWEAKED"  Nasty machine, and kinda sharp, too.  It'd look a lot
> better with a little Rocket in between two grilles, tho ;)
>     
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>       Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>       Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>       "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:42:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book 

>I just received in the mail today (Friday, the 18th) my copy of the book 
>by Helen Earley and James R. Walkinshaw that Oldsmobile division is 
>sending to all members of Oldsmobile car clubs.  The book is entitled 
>"Setting the Pace - Oldsmobiles First 100 Years,"

     So, uhh, this list is considerred a "club" isn't it???  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:42:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Project: Olds Craft  

Should we send all this stuff to HotRod, PHR, etc, too?  How 'bout the
nastiest and fastiest to SuperChevy and maybe draw these pesky little
bowties to extinction!!!   (Sounds fun to me)  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:43:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

Rod Rickenbach wrote:

> It must have been a carburated '82 GN with regular unleaded.  Either that
> or your engine isn't stock...

I can't attest to the gas or carburation used by my challenger, however,
my engine is stock.  I recall seeing an emblem affixed to the front passenger
side fender stating GN.  I beleive we are talking about the same car.
I could be wrong :-(

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:45:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

> The moral of ~this~ story:  Some kids can't drive?  :)

Funny (I had a good laugh) :-)

>     You didn't happen to notice a grinding high pitch whine *(not from the
> kid!)* and a loud rap-rap-rap coming from under his hood, did ya?  

I was too far ahead of him to hear any raps....

>      So how bad did ya beat him?  (his name wasn't tucker, was it?!)

By about 10 car lengths (guessing)

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:46:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

> 
> >I just received in the mail today (Friday, the 18th) my copy of the book 
> >by Helen Earley and James R. Walkinshaw that Oldsmobile division is 
> >sending to all members of Oldsmobile car clubs.  The book is entitled 
> >"Setting the Pace - Oldsmobiles First 100 Years,"
> 
>      So, uhh, this list is considerred a "club" isn't it???  :)
>     
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>       Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>       Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>       "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

I would sure like to receive one too!!!!

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:50:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National 

>> They could do some pretty impressive things with those little 6's, tho.
>
>Any car, even Hondas, with light weights can do impressive times and speeds.
>I believe my 68 442 is probably over 3200 pounds (I really don't know for
sure).
>If I had an all fiberglass body and trimmed some of the weight off, I too
>could do impressive things.  
     Yeah, I'm that way at heart, too.  It really is a big chip on the
shoulder rocketting nearly 4000 pounds down the quarter in 14 seconds!
Rockit ~3800, and GS~3700, both capable of 14's (although not very
consistantly right now...)
     Smoking light cars is ~fun~ because they really don't expect it.  A
friend of mine just bought an '83 Pont. station wagon, full size model.
Previous owner put a blowtie 350, built all out, 3.73 posi, and airbags in
it.  Talk about a sleeper!  Smoked a brand new pustang the other night.
Should have seen the look on that poor guys face!  Smoked by a wagon :)
Just think, if they had put a stock Olds 425 in there.....
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:57:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National 

>     Smoking light cars is ~fun~ because they really don't expect it.  A
>friend of mine just bought an '83 Pont. station wagon, full size model.
>Previous owner put a blowtie 350, built all out, 3.73 posi, and airbags in
>it.  Talk about a sleeper!  Smoked a brand new pustang the other night.
>Should have seen the look on that poor guys face!  Smoked by a wagon :)
>Just think, if they had put a stock Olds 425 in there.....

Wow.  Some ideas for my wagon just popped into my mind. 

But what do you mean airbags?  Do you mean additional support air lift bags?
I read an article where Hot Rod did this to a Chevy Malibu wagon with IROC 
wheels.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:59:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Re.: Wasn't the "@" Car Show Symbol Our Idea?(fwd) 

     Yes, it was here.  I originally suggested an "I" in the window, which 
     was an idea I stole from another mailing list.  Someone else suggested 
     that an @ might be more appropriate.  I agree, but as of yet I don't 
     think any sort of effort has been made.
     
     For myself, it's kind of a moot point since I'm up in the Pacific 
     Northwest where there's next-to-zero olds activity anyways.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re.: Wasn't the "@" Car Show Symbol Our Idea?(fwd)
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/18/96 9:37 AM
     
So anyway, they were all discussing how to recognize each other at one 
of the upcoming national conventions in order to meet others from the 
Digest list, and I suggested using an "@" symbol on the nametags, 
'cause I _think_ the Olds list is where I stole this idea from (but 
yes, I did mention this list at the time. Dunno if anyone from there 
has subscribed here because of it). (If no one here wants to claim 
credit, then I must have been thinking of the British Cars List from 
a long time ago.) Anyway, the idea caught on:
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:53:51 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Build Grand National 

     I think that a _bone stock_ GN will only do about 15.5-16.5 in the 
     quarter.  With a little tweaking consisting of an afternoon's worth of 
     mods and about $500 it'll run 12-13's easy.
     
     If the one that raced you was 100% stock, then yes it's very possible 
     you would have blown him away.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Build Grand National
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/18/96 9:37 AM


  This kid was engaging
>> me to race him... So I did.  Maybe he gave up after I intimidated him with 
my
>> car..... :-)
>
>It must have been a carburated '82 GN with regular unleaded.  Either that 
>or your engine isn't stock...
     
     

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:13:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

oldsmobile-owner wrote:

>      I think that a _bone stock_ GN will only do about 15.5-16.5 in the 
>      quarter.  With a little tweaking consisting of an afternoon's worth of 
>      mods and about $500 it'll run 12-13's easy.
>      
>      If the one that raced you was 100% stock, then yes it's very possible 
>      you would have blown him away.

What could I do, with $500 say, to my 68 442 to make it go 12-13 easy...

Chris

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:16:01 -0300
Subject: Re: tucker@aol.com 

>Given the fact that he has a AOL account, it wouldn't 
>be that tough to stuff his mailbox ...daily.   ;)

I'm game...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:23:44 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile (med. length) 

Hello Everyone,

We have not officially meet but, good/bad it is my understanding that my name
*Heidi* and something about having pigtails and freckles and being related to
John Rock  along with some other words have been mentioned.  So I thought I
would introduce myself.

I was corresponding to a fellow list member and somehow my response ended up
on the list.  I am a member of John Rocks staff at Oldsmobile's home office.
As I said in my last note to the other member.  I am a member of John Rocks
staff and am located at Oldsmobiles Home office.  If you, or members of your
list,  have visited out site you can see that we have opened out doors to
comsumers suggestions, concerns and upsets by offering email and two way
message boards.  Not many other companies are willing to have dirty laundry
hanging out on a message board but we feel that it helps us to stay in touch
with concerns, good and bad.  Yes, we have seen many changes, Yes, we have
made bad choices and No, we can not please all of the people we can only do
out best to develope products that we feel will succeed. 
.  "If  the group has questions, I would be happy to try and answer them but
I am not a wizard with a crystal ball that can tell the future of Olds and
prefer not to be a 'punching bag'."     

Now,  If you have a problem, as the person who posted the lovely, glowing
comments about myself and Oldsmobile did, fell free to send me an email or
give a call 1-800-442-6537

Heidi  ......with only a few freckles :-)
Oldsmobile 
Lansing, MI

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:25:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter 

As an add-on to Bob's message, 1997's Performance Chapter show will be
August 2&3 at the same location (Howard Johnsons at the Middletown exit of
I-75,
just north of Cincinnati).


Ron Forsee  65 442

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:27:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Build Grand National

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Chris Sparks wrote:

> oldsmobile-owner wrote:
> 
> >      I think that a _bone stock_ GN will only do about 15.5-16.5 in the 
> >      quarter.  With a little tweaking consisting of an afternoon's worth 
of 
> >      mods and about $500 it'll run 12-13's easy.
> >      
> >      If the one that raced you was 100% stock, then yes it's very possible 
> >      you would have blown him away.
> 
> What could I do, with $500 say, to my 68 442 to make it go 12-13 easy...

A nitrous kit.

GN's have the advantage of a factory power adder - the turbo.  By merely
changing the computer's chip, you can modify the fule, spark, boost, etc.
which ups your horsepower...

There are definitely some advantages to technology. :)

- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:38:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book 

Ditto Dan!!!!!
    An outstanding surprize...well written & documented..also very candid ie;
The 
Fall From Grace   1980-1989.
   


Ron Forsee  65-442meister

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:33:39 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: tucker@aol.com 

Maybe better yet, is to forward the contents of each message from 
tucker@aol.com to postmaster@aol.com, maybe CCing to tucker as well.  I 
guess you could also "digest" him to stuff his box! :)

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------------
>Given the fact that he has a AOL account, it wouldn't 
>be that tough to stuff his mailbox ...daily.   ;)

I'm game...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:49:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

Mine just came in the mail! Looks great!

Looking forward to reading it.

Sparky

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:52:23 -0300
Subject: Brakes fixed 

Man, I finally fixed my brakes.  After all those months of no power brakes.
The problem was really simple.  After replacing all those parts (most needed
it anyway..), it was a problem with the vacuum booster.  On the back, in the
hole where the shaft (that attaches to the brake pedal) comes out there's
some foam which acts like a filter so the booster doesn't get any crap in it
through the backside.  Well, my old booster (which _WAS_ bad) left that hole
open (just the foam filter in it).  The new booster had a small rubber boot
that slid over the shaft and up against the back of the booster, thereby
sealing the back of the booster.  The seal created by the boot wouldn't
allow any (well, maybe a teensy, tiny amount) air into the backside of the
booster through that foam filter.  The diaphragm couldn't move.  I took off
the booster, cut a big hole in the little boot, put it back together, and
the brakes work!  I forgot what power brakes are like!  Nice!

Thanks for all the help, folks.  I appreciate it!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:54:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Book

R4C442@aol.com wrote:
> 
> An outstanding surprize...well written & documented..also very candid 
> ie; The Fall From Grace   1980-1989.

Hmmm...  I gonna have to read that.  BTW, what happened in 1990?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:32:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Internet Message  

>>His name was Craig Erickson.  He would have been there from...I'm 
>>thinking 1987-90.

>He still is, I'm listenning to him right now.  Cool...  No idea what 
he
>looks like or drives, tho.  Really good on radio, tho.  :)

Are you serious?  He's STILL there?  Damn, I thought he left to go 
back from Minnesota YEARS ago!  (Maybe he did and then came back; I'm 
not sure)

Which station is he on?  KOJM or KQPX?  (I think those are the FM 
call letters)


- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-
 (who worked with Craig Erickson 10 years ago in Burlington, Colorado 
when we were both just starting   out)

PS...We'll have to get him an Oldsmobile to drive.  Maybe a '70 
Ninety-Eight with the station's calls on the side? <g>

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:34:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

At 12:03 PM 10/18/96 -0300, Andrew C. Green wrote:
>>Must have been a grandma driving the car, or it was an older GN.
>>An 86 or 87 Grand National would have no problem beating a 68 442,
>>exception is a very hot and humid day (turbo not as effective).
>
>You might even come across a GNX sometime. 1 of, what, 500? made,

537 to be exact I think

>with a supercharger instead of a turbo

No supercharger, just a bigger turbo I heard and a few other goodies
. Most likely will be black,

>looks like a GN at first glance save for some rather substantial,
>functional, body-colored air dumps in the front fenders which look 
>like oversized versions of the usual Buick Ventiport trim. There's
>one at the Buick dealer in Glenview, IL; they've been trying to sell
>it for what seems like _years_ now for $35K or something like that...

If I had 35,000 I would buy it now, one of the greatest cars ever.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:31:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Brakes fixed

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> Man, I finally fixed my brakes.  After all those months of no power brakes.
- -snip-
> I forgot what power brakes are like!  Nice!

I am told that I have power brakes on my 68 442.  However, when comparing it
to my 1977 Olds Cutlass, there are miles (no pun intended) of difference.  It
seems to me that I have to exert more foot pressure to get the 442 to stop. 
My other other Olds, all I had to do was barely touch the brakes and I was
practically stopping on a dime.  Any clue or am I SOL?

Chris

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:36:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Build Grand National

At 01:43 PM 10/18/96 -0300, Chris Sparks wrote:
>Rod Rickenbach wrote:
>
>> It must have been a carburated '82 GN with regular unleaded.  Either that
>> or your engine isn't stock...
>
>I can't attest to the gas or carburation used by my challenger, however,
>my engine is stock.  I recall seeing an emblem affixed to the front passenger
>side fender stating GN.  I beleive we are talking about the same car.
>I could be wrong :-(

I doubt it was an 82. Those are even more rare than the 87 GNX, only around
150 made.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance
81 Camaro......................for sale
75 Hurst/Olds W-25.....for sale real soon
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http:// www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:10:00 -0300
Subject: FW: New Oldsmobile Symbol

I sent this early yesterday, but it didn't seem to post, so I'm sending it 
again.
 ----------
From: Zeilmann, Jeff
To: 'oldsmobile'
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol
Date: Thursday, October 17, 1996 1:53AM

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996
Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com> wrote:
<snip>
<<Lets' face facts, Oldsmobile.  You've lost market share because you
<<stopped building road cars and, with few exceptions, started building
<<undistinguished crap.  Most Oldsmobiles built in the last few year are
<<about as distinctive as a brown paper bag.

<<Pssst...  Hey, Olds!  Have you looked at some of the cars Chrysler is
<<building?  The Viper?  That retro-thing?  Did you see the new Bug
<<Volkswagen is building?  You better wake up and smell the exhaust fumes
<<...before the Aurora becomes just another corporate sedan.

My thoughts exactly.  For several years, in fact.  I'll bet that felt good 
to get off your chest, because I know I enjoyed reading it.  Whatever 
happened to Oldsmobile being the pioneer in automotive technology.  Take 
your Toro for instance (well maybe not, you might not appreciate that), 
Toronados pioneering the front wheel drive.  One of the most peculiar sites 
I ever saw, years ago, was a Toro at the track with slicks on the front 
wheels, and smoke pouring out of the front as it went through pre-stage 
burnouts.  It did some serious butt-kicking that night as I remember.  And 
the Rocket V-8, being a serious dominator at the track in the '50's & early 
'60s.  It's almost like The Beatles (and I love the Beatles) going for 20 
years trying to convince everyone they weren't Beatles anymore.  Hey, it's 
what made them famous, and that's what the people wanted most.  Go with the 
flow, give us what we want, not what everyone else is doing.  When will they 
realize that spending all those boo-koo bucks on designs that are so similar 
from year to year, and can be passed off for nearly any model with only a 
symbol to differentiate them, is not always the answer.  I hate to say it, 
but look at F*rd, when they brought out the new Mustang, they based most of 
their ad campaign on its nostalgia, and muscle (or lack of...sorry I had to 
say that...I just had to).  At least they had the right idea.  What would it 
hurt to give that a try again.  There is a whole bunch of us here in the 
U.S., Canada, etc.. that are waiting, with only Oldsmobiles automotive past 
to romance.  I seriously don't think I could ever have a fraction of the 
pride that I have had in the older models (pre-robotic assembly lines), for 
the new line of Olds out now.  I have toured a GM assembly plant, here in 
Wentzville (just outside of St. Louis), and have seen how they are 
assembled.  It's just not quite the same, but I am getting away from the 
point.
I once had an idea that I thought would be pretty neat:  What would stop 
them from producing one, or even a number of reproduction cars 
of...say...the muscle car years.  I mean actually reproducing the exact body 
style, slightly modified to todays safety standards, with the best of todays 
engine technology and drive-train.  They could even go back and say  "ya, 
this was a great car, but if we could do it all over again, we could include 
this, this this, this...and improve this, this, this, and this.  Think of 
the possibilities.

Jeff Zeilmann (stepping off his soapbox)
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: gibson@webgate.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:57:26 -0300
Subject: More VIN info please

     Thanks again to all who responded and helped with Web Pages and VIN 
help.  
Is there any way to find out original paint colour, option package, 
displacement, etc?  I already knw most of it(I think) but I'd like to find out 
everything about it.  As always, any help is greatly appreciated.  BTW, what 
is 
RIN on the ownership?

             Gerald Gibson
             gibson@webgate.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:09:23 -0300
Subject: HAULING AGAIN

This didn't get on the list last night so I'll try again,  I'm in need of 
hauling from Ohio to Iowa the car doesn't have an engine or tranny.  If 
you can help let me know, all my leads have turned up zilch or was to 
expensive.

TIA

Chris

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:08:50 -0300
Subject: Re: More VIN info please 

Gerald,

There should be a "Fisher Body" tag on the fire wall.  This has paint
and trim codes, along with build week info.

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:21:57 -0300
Subject: Re: More VIN info please

> 
> Gerald,
> 
> There should be a "Fisher Body" tag on the fire wall.  This has paint
> and trim codes, along with build week info.
> 
> Mike Turley        '66 442
> turley@symplex.com
> 

Great!  Now how do we decipher these codes...

Chris Sparks
sparks@aisf.com

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:37:39 -0300
Subject: Re: More VIN info please 

>> 
>> Gerald,
>> 
>> There should be a "Fisher Body" tag on the fire wall.  This has paint
>> and trim codes, along with build week info.
>> 
>> Mike Turley        '66 442
>> turley@symplex.com
>> 
>
>Great!  Now how do we decipher these codes...
>
>Chris Sparks
>sparks@aisf.com


I deciphered mine with some literature send from Olds Historical Dept. 
(see www.442.com for address and phone#), but if you post them here
one on the experts will decipher them for you.

Mike Turley        '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:13:03 -0300
Subject: FW: New Oldsmobile Symbol 

<<Lets' face facts, Oldsmobile.  You've lost market share because 
you
<<stopped building road cars and, with few exceptions, started 
building
<<undistinguished crap. 

Like the Achieva, for example?

Is it just me, or do you also believe the Cutlass Calais was a much 
better-looking and better-performing car than the "Acheesa" that 
succeeded it?  Damn, they're ugly...especially the 4-door versions!

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:53:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Performance Chapter

Ron,
Since I was born and raised in Middletown, it would give me an excuse to come 
from Texas and visit. 

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:59:19 -0300
Subject: RE: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBD15.B4A07C80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lets talk I got one to go faster than that.

- ----------
From: 	Tucker@aol.com[SMTP:Tucker@aol.com]
Sent: 	Friday, October 18, 1996 12:05 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

Well let me tell you when you get your stock anything olds to go a 12.68
through the exhaust with G-78-14 tires than we'll talk until then eat shit




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------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:05:00 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com> wrote:
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 05:25:16 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

>>Sucks.

>>The 66 Toro and Mike

That's what I thought you'd say.  And yah, I guess if you tilt your head to 
the side, and squint your eyes a bit, it does kinda look like a rocket. 
 Keeping up with the new generation is one thing, but, there are also 
advantages to having a symbol of lasting stature.  I think they got a little 
too caught up in keeping up with the Jones.  Then again, I'm partial to the 
older Oldsmobiles anyway, so what do I know.  Just my 2 cents worth, I 
guess.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:21:47 -0300
Subject: Fixing brakes (now I'm an expert..) 

>I am told that I have power brakes on my 68 442.  However, when comparing it
>to my 1977 Olds Cutlass, there are miles (no pun intended) of difference.  It
>seems to me that I have to exert more foot pressure to get the 442 to stop. 
>My other other Olds, all I had to do was barely touch the brakes and I was
>practically stopping on a dime.  Any clue or am I SOL?

You sound like you don't know if you have power brakes on your '68.  Check.
Lift the hood, and look at the master cylinder.  If it's mounted directly to
the firewall (no vacuum booster), they're manual, and will never work like
the brakes on your '77.  If there's a big round vacuum canister (vacuum
booster) between the master cylinder and the firewall, then you've got power
brakes.  In that case, your '68 brakes may not work as good as the '77
brakes, but they can come close.

Could be a multitude of things that make the difference.  Differently
designed (or bad) master cylinder, different (or bad) booster, sticking
calipers/wheel cylinders, old rubber brake lines that give, steel lines with
rusty insides, drum brakes out of adjustment, worn out linings, air in the
brake lines, sticking differential/proportioning/metering valve, etc, etc.
Shall I continue?  Best thing to do is start poking around.  Check simple
things -- brake linings, fluid levels, vacuum booster, vacuum level.  Bleed
the brakes.  Check the rubber lines to see if they're cracked or have
bubbles in the outer surface.  If they do, replace them.  There's one for
each front brake, and one for the rear that goes from the chassis to the
rear axle (total of three).  Is your 68 equipped with front discs?  If it's
got drums, that makes a major difference in the way the brakes work.  When
was the last time the brakes were checked?  It's a good idea to check them
_at least_ once a year, more if you put more miles than average on your car.
Also, it's a good idea to replace the brake fluid once a year, as DOT 3 and
4 brake fluid can get contaminated with water, cause things to rust, and
lower the boiling point of your brake fluid.  If the boiling point is too
low and the fluid does boil, VOILA!, you've then got air in your lines.  I
replace fluid with a large syringe -- use it to suck almost all of the old
fluid out of the master cylinder resevoir, then fill it back up with new
fluid.  Bleed all four corners till you get clean fluid out of all the
bleeders.  Start with the brake farthest from the master cylinder, and work
your way back (RR, LR, RF, LF).  If bleeding/new linings/new brake lines
doesn't make an improvement, next check wheel cylinders, master cylinder,
and steel lines.  Make sure you've got at least 14 inches of vacuum going to
the vacuum booster.  Make sure the vacuum line to the booster isn't
collapsing (the inside of the vacuum line can separate from the outside, and
you may not be able to see it collapse from the outside).  There's a lot
that can go wrong with brakes.  About the only thing you can do is DIG IN!
No other way to check all that stuff!  Good Luck!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:26:02 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: New Oldsmobile Symbol

MR DREW A DURIGAN wrote:
> 
> Like the Achieva, for example?
> 
> Is it just me, or do you also believe the Cutlass Calais was a much
> better-looking and better-performing car than the "Acheesa" that
> succeeded it?  Damn, they're ugly...especially the 4-door versions!

You mean the Under-Achieva?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:37:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Fixing brakes (now I'm an expert..)

For starters, thanks to Dave Paulison for taking the time to answer my 
question so
completely.

> You sound like you don't know if you have power brakes on your '68.  Check.
> Lift the hood, and look at the master cylinder.  If it's mounted directly to
> the firewall (no vacuum booster), they're manual, and will never work like
> the brakes on your '77.  If there's a big round vacuum canister (vacuum

Yup!

> booster) between the master cylinder and the firewall, then you've got power
> brakes.  In that case, your '68 brakes may not work as good as the '77
> brakes, but they can come close.

> Could be a multitude of things that make the difference.  Differently
> designed (or bad) master cylinder, different (or bad) booster, sticking
> calipers/wheel cylinders, old rubber brake lines that give, steel lines with
> rusty insides, drum brakes out of adjustment, worn out linings, air in the
> brake lines, sticking differential/proportioning/metering valve, etc, etc.
> Shall I continue?  Best thing to do is start poking around.  Check simple
> things -- brake linings, fluid levels, vacuum booster, vacuum level.  Bleed

I seem to be going through about a 1/4 inch of fluid a month.  I have had my
mechanic check the brakes out, looking for leaks.  His next attempt will be
to go behind the master cylinder.

> the brakes.  Check the rubber lines to see if they're cracked or have
> bubbles in the outer surface.  If they do, replace them.  There's one for
> each front brake, and one for the rear that goes from the chassis to the
> rear axle (total of three).  Is your 68 equipped with front discs?  If it's

I have got from disc brakes and rear drums.

> got drums, that makes a major difference in the way the brakes work.  When
- -snip-
> No other way to check all that stuff!  Good Luck!

Thanks.  I'll let you know what happens next in this saga! :-)

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:50:00 -0300
Subject: Swap meet & Car Shows

FYI:

This was posted in Hemmings Motor News web site
It may be of interest to anyone in the St. Louis Metropolitan area.

Kirkwood (St Louis area), Oct 27, fortieth miniature model car show, swap 
meet and contest sponsored by Midwest Model Vehicle Assn of St Louis at 
Kirkwood Community Center, 111 S Geyer Rd, admission $2, info: Carl 
Heidenreich, 8745 Santa Bella Dr, Hazelwood, MO 63042, PH: 314-524-6360, 
contest info: Gary Hogue, 5142 Maffitt, St Louis, MO 63113, PH: 
314-389-9330.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:37:45 -0300
Subject: Re: The EGR system on 403's- Complaint (and solution) 

At 02:24 AM 10/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>> I'd also like to make the throttle-response more linear, rather than having
>> ...
>> (besides, my current Q-jet flattens out anyway...).
>
>Before you start modifying the vacuum break, make sure that the power
>system in your Q-jet is functioning properly.  It is possible to see the
>top of the main metering rod hanger through the fuel bowl pipe at the
>front.  The power piston should not bind; perhaps yours is stuck in the
>intermediate or downward position.  Since this is independent of the
>secondary metering system, it may explain why so much throttle is needed
>for additional power.  You can also put a stiffer power piston spring in
>there so that fuel enrichment comes on earlier (i.e. at a higher vacuum
>level, since the spring tension works against a vacuum signal), although
>the reverse is usually desired for when a high performance cam is used,
>and very little vacuum is available which causes the carb to run rich all
>the time.  How about trying different metering rods?
>
>Kevin Wong

See, this is all the tuning that I haven't had a chance to do yet...

This carb has an Adjustable Part Throttle (APT) power valve, and that got
screwed up when I disassembled it (and didn't recognize what it was... :( .
Of course, the shop manual's explanation for adjusting this is that it is
set at the factory, and you basically have to trash the carb if you can't
get it back to its factory position (this is the _factory_ shop manual, mind
you; thanks, guys...). An old article from a Car Craft mentions adjusting
this, but doesn't recommend how, and Roe's Rochester Carb book is of no help
whatsoever (heck, even the W-machines tuning guide reprinted in Mondello's
tech book is a better guide than Roe's book for performance modifications).
No, I don't have the GM "Box-o-paper" on the Q-jets; I haven't sent off my
$35 (though I have the order form waiting right here...).

So, yeah, I've got to tune the APT, along with the power valve spring. And
possibly rejet the carb (the 403 isn't quite stock anymore...). And perhaps
try different primary metering rods.

Then, I can work on WOT performance with the secondary metering rods and
air-valve spring adjustment and vacuum break dampening. I've already
swapped-in some '70 455 metering rods (forget the codes right now) that had
a more gradual enrichment; the stockers were fat right to the end, and then
*really* richen up things. These rods improved things, but only at 3/4
throttle and more.

Again, it's that part-throttle response that I'm looking for (and that
swapping my 2.41's for 3.42's will help with as well).

Wishin' I had EFI right now...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:36:40 -0300
Subject: Re: New Oldsmobile Symbol

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:
> 
> And yah, I guess if you tilt your head to the side, and squint your 
> eyes a bit, it does kinda look like a rocket.

Actually, I thought if you tilt you head to one side and squint you eyses 
a bit, it looks like a Lexus logo.

> Keeping up with the new generation is one thing, but, there are also
> advantages to having a symbol of lasting stature.  

Hear, hear.

> I think they got a little too caught up in keeping up with the Jones.

Or the Mitsubushis

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:37:42 -0300
Subject: Re: EGR and Carb (was ...403's- Complaint...) 

At 11:25 PM 10/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>to try a different vacuum break for the air valve, as I think the factory
>>one has too much dampening (tuned to avoid a bog, the secondaries don't kick
>>in for about a second-and-a-half; which seems like forever when you're
>>merging...).
>
>Keep in mind that the secondary air vanes are adjustable.  Just under the
>linkage for the vac. break is a tiny allen lock-screw (pointing upwards)
[snip]
>had really good luck with all of mine, and I don't use a vacuum break at
>all.  It's a thought.  Good luck.

Yeah, I've been adjusting those things for years (even filed down a
screwdriver just for that purpose). I've considered removing the break
entirely as well; next on the list...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:30:48 -0300
Subject: Re: "It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile"

Chris Urban wrote:
> 
> Lets talk I got one to go faster than that.

Hey, Chris,

He's already history.  
CC: him at Tucker@aol.com 
...about a hundred times!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:11:00 -0300
Subject: GM could/would/should.....

Jeff Zeilmann wrote:

>Toronados pioneering the front wheel drive.
I define pioneering as the first to do something.  Cord developed front 
wheel drive cars in the '30s.  Sorry, but Olds was not the first to market a 
FWD car.  While I'm a big Olds fan, I'd rather drive a restored Cord, if I 
could afford one

>I once had an idea that I thought would be pretty neat:  What would stop
>them from producing one, or even a number of reproduction cars
>of...say...the muscle car years.  I mean actually reproducing the exact 
body
>style, slightly modified to todays safety standards, with the best of 
todays
>engine technology and drive-train.  They could even go back and say  "ya,
>this was a great car, but if we could do it all over again, we could 
include
>this, this this, this...and improve this, this, this, and this.  Think of
>the possibilities.

If GM produced an engineless chassis, I bet that they would not have to meet 
any safety or emissions standards.  Sort of like a kit car, with all the 
stuff available through GM.  Then again, for the cost involved, you could 
buy a pristine original.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:12:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Blown Head Gaskets compressed

Milodon makes a cooper head gasket for the Olds, however its .040" thick, 
don't know of anybody who has used them, there listed in the Summit 
Racing catalog

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-10-17 13:08:20 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Anyone know where the thin steel shim head gaskets can be obtained? >>
> 
> Stock olds head gaskets were .017 when compressed.  The only thing 
> close enough is the Detroit Gasket.  When it is compressed it measuers
> .028.  That is better than the Felpros and McCords that measure
> .038 when compressed.  Unfortunatly the orig steel gaskets are not 
> availible from the dealer, and I haven't found anybody with a stash of head
> gaskets either.  So I hope this helps. BTW Mondello's head gaskets are the
> Detroit Gaskets that I buy direct from a local Auto Parts Store and also
> cheaper
> in cost.
> 
> W Machines
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #335
********************************
 
