To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	10/03/96 11:14:31 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #319


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 3 October 1996      Volume 01 : Number 319


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:20:09 -0300
Subject: Re: What is the potential of the 307?  And how much $$$ ??? 

At 01:30 PM 10/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip of horrible things that happen to a windowed-main 403 under boost]
>Is the 403 the only one that has windowed blocks???  Is the 307 and (non-
>diesel) 350 non-windowed???

I hadn't considered the fact that the 307 probably was a windowed block.
That block could potentially be replaced by a solid-main 350 block sleeved
down to the 307's bore (if for some reason you really wanted to see what a
307 could do). There is no suitable replacement for the windowed-main 403
blocks, however, with its 4.351" bore, which is over a 1/4" larger than the
next-largest piston ever put in an Olds motor.

The other problem with the 403 vs. the 307/350 motors is the head-gasket
sealing. With that large a bore, it is very possible to blow a gasket across
cylinders under higher pressure. A 350 has at least a 1/4" more gasket
between the cylinders, and the 307 even more!

In fact, a 350 sleeved down to a 307 might actually have a higher hp
potential in a turbocharged engine, where the amount of power you produce
depends less upon the actual displacement and more upon the amount of boost
you can stuff and _keep_ in the cylinders. A sleeved-down diesel block 307
would have more integrity in the block, and thus could withstand more boost,
than a 350.

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:17:06 -0300
Subject: General ?

Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the ones
that aren't Olds;-0

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:39:11 -0300
Subject: W-31

Scott,
I have a standard everyday run of the mill 70 4-4-2 that was built in 
Lansing. It has the fuel return line as you describe. When you say "W- 
machine" do you include my type of Olds or just the W-30s and 31s?

Dave Wyatt  70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:00:40 -0300
Subject: seatbelts and parts wanted

I was wondering was is the difference between the deluxe and non-deluxe 
seat belts.  I've seen chrome (which I assume is deluxe) and colored 
(non-deluxe?).  Is this correct?  Is there a difference between the 
bench and the bucket seatbelts?

Speaking of seatbelts, I need a 68 passenger's side right seatbelt for 
buckets.  The side with the buckle (chrome).  Also, I need a center cap 
for a SSI.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:40:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Windowed Mains

This may be a dumb question, but what is a windowed main block vs. a solid
main block?

anthony

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:44:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Disc Breaks

>What cars can be robbed of there disc breaks to fit my 67 88?  Does anyone
>out there have a set of disc breaks that would fit a 67 88, and want to
>sell them?
>Kenneth

Kenneth--

The best disc brake swap(and easiest one to find) are from '69 and '70 full
size 88's and 98's. The '70 models were all standard with discs as long as
they had the 455 motor. Scrap yeard plentyful!  All you need are the
spindles, m/cylinder rotors, calipers, proportion valve and hoses to the
calipers. The upper and lower a-frames are the same!. This is a bolt in
swap for all '70-'65 fill size cars except the '65-6 Jetstar 88 models.

Tony

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:23:04 -0300
Subject: The big bad J.B!...was (and still is) Re: Not your average epoxy

> We have had some discussions in the past about expoxies in general and 
> their possible use in Qjets.  During today's Fix-Or-Repair-Daily gig, I 
> ran across this epoxy I have mentioned before in the course of my 
> crawling around on the garage floor in search of missing tools.  
> 
> The manufacturer claims that it is strong enough to be used to repair 
> cracked cylinder heads! (I know, but that's what thay say.)  

	*snip*

	Hey!  That sounds a lot like J.B. Weld.  I remember reading some
testamonials on the package a couple years ago exclaiming all the amazing
uses for the stuff.  The one that really stuck in my head was one from
some farmer somewhere that had actually used J.B. Weld to repair a
cracked enigine block in his tractor!!  Said it saved him hundreds of
dollars in repair bills.  Boy, just think what it would do for you guys
with frame problems....  ;)	
	Hey, I wonder if you could use this stuff in place of bondo!
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:14:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Radio...was Re: Def. of Convector 

> > My generator has a condensor on the side of it (yes, just like one
> > for an ignition system) that goes to one of the terminals.  Anybody 
> > have an idea which one?  (Field coil or armature?)  Or, does anybody 
> > have an idea why it's there?  

 
> Noise suppression, I would imagine.  Keep the whine out of the radio.

	Hmm.  I had'nt even thought of that, but it sounds as good as any
explanation, I suppose.  That only leaves one question....which terminal
does it go to?

	Oh, and do any of you guys with...like a 62 to 64 have one of
these too?  Just curious.

> 
> Sorry for the delay,
> 
	Hey, better late than never, right?  :)


				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:51:21 -0300
Subject: Re: General ? 

At 01:17 AM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the ones
>that aren't Olds;-0
>
A while back Mike Frederick posted this list of Ford related lists:
Ford
         (send requests to fordnatics-request@lists1.best.com;
           subscribe commands are 
           subscribe fordnatics     
              -and-
           subsingle fordnatics
           the former for digest and the latter for regular)

Ford Bronco (early types)
          (send requests to jgarden@pepperdine.edu)

Ford Escort
         (send requests to philhy@junior.nsm.uh.edu)

Ford Explorer
         (send requests to server@slic.cts.com, command is
            subscribe explorer-l)

Ford Festiva
         (send requests to wd22yl@sun1.wwb.noaa.gov)

Ford Mustang
   the classic mustangs list is for Mustangs through 1973,
   the modern mustange list has ceased operation, and no "official"
   replacement has yet appeared.  nobody cares about the Pinto, er,
   Mustang II, so don't ask.

   classic:
         (send requests to listproc@east.xsis.xerox.com, use listserv
           commands; list name is classic-mustangs)

Ford Probe
         (send requests to majordomo@bh.org, command is
            subscribe ford-probe)

Ford Thunderbird (1955-1966)
         (send requests to gwotel@hooked.net)

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:54:13 -0300
Subject: Address?

According to the Welcome to Oldsmobile Mailing LIst letter I received after
I subscribed to the list, I send mail to 
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

But the messages I receive are from a different address, should I mail to the 
address listed in the header of received messages??
anthony

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:45:24 -0300
Subject: Re: General ?

Chris Blumenstein wrote:
> 
> Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the
> ones that aren't Olds;-0

Somebody else makes cars besides Olds?   :o

Try ftp://ftp.wizvax.net/pub/personal/rwelty/Autos/mailing-lists.text

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: ImaLsrBaby@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:24:28 -0300
Subject: 70 Rag top 

I have a list of parts I have a possible interest in. Can anyone be of help??

All of this stuff is for 1970 Cutlass Supreme rag top with gold interior.

1.) 8 track tape (underdash) Mount housing and pad assembly (for my cd
player)
2.)12 bolt posi track rear end 342 ratio preferred  OLDS ONLY
3.) Rally pack gauges
4.) Right sun visor aluminum mounting swivel arm (rag top only)
5.) Tilt column - ( for console automatic )
6.) Original OAI air cleaner top half ( complete )

If anyone has a lead on this stuff and the price is right maybe we can talk.

p.s.  Please dont bother me with advice about conventional sources - I know
them all.

Jim 
1970  355ci/350hp  Cutlass conv.

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:02:45 -0300
Subject: 307 H.P

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>From slcannon@uncc.edu Tue Oct  1 20:00:33 1996
From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:00:28 -0400
To: oldsmobile@ccn.ca.dal.ca
Subject: 307 H.P
Cc: slcannon@uncc.edu

Hey guys,

	I've got an '86 Cutlass 442 with the 307 and was wanting to do a 
little something to it.  It doesn't need to be rebuilt nd I'm still in school 
so I can't afford much.  Does anyone know if aftermarket computer chips work 
okay and if so which do you think is the best to buy?  The two I know about 
are ADS superchip and Hypertech.  I think they're supposed to give you an 
additional 25 h.p., but that sounds to easy.

Thanks,

Steve


- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:08:25 -0300
Subject: Re: The big bad J.B!...was (and still is) Re: Not your average epoxy

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> Hey!  That sounds a lot like J.B. Weld.  

Yeah, it does.  But a totally different product.

> Hey, I wonder if you could use this stuff in place of bondo!

Sure... until you try to sand it.   :(

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:09 -0300
Subject: Re: General ? 

>Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the ones
>that aren't Olds;-0

There are other makes of cars?  :-)

Okay, Richard Welty posts an occasional listing to the rec.autos.* and
misc.consumers Usenet newsgroups listing all known car lists. You can
also ransack the http://www.eauto.com site for listings under the auto
marque of your choice, although their quality control is bit sloppier
than Welty's...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "HARTMUT W. KUNTZE" <hkuntze@concentric.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:46:27 -0300
Subject: 1972 )Olds 442 Convertible

I am in the process of restoring my 442 that I purchased in Memphis, TN in
1977.
Dragged (no, not drag raced) all over the US and presently located in Las
Vegas, NV
looking for resources to do a professional restoration aproximating OEM
specs.
Looking for all and any input.
Sincerly,
Hkuntze@concentric.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:04:55 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

>I was wondering was is the difference between the deluxe and non-deluxe 
>seat belts.  I've seen chrome (which I assume is deluxe) and colored 
>(non-deluxe?).  Is this correct?

I always thought the chrome was basic, color-keyed was deluxe. I know
the basic cars got black belts, the up-market ones got color-keyed belts
to match the interior, and it would presumably cost more to produce
color (i.e. non-chrome) buckles in all interior colors.

>Is there a difference between the 
>bench and the bucket seatbelts?

I would say so, generally. There are hardware variations between body
styles, so belt lengths might have to vary as well. I tried to retrofit
belts into a two-door... I forget now, but it was some mid-'80's A-body,
and discovered that the set I'd yanked out of a junkyard wagon of the
same model didn't work right: the B pillar loop had a different angle on
it (the two-door had more angled pillars than the wagon) and the loop
used on the wagon would let the belt bind against the pillar when it was
installed in the two-door. This, of course, I did not discover until I'd
installed everything else.  :-(

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:09:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Windowed Mains

>This may be a dumb question, but what is a windowed main block vs. a solid
>main block?
>
>anthony


Anthony --

The "windows" are open spaces between the main bearing supports and the
camshaft area.  On older engines this was a solid casting from the camshaft
and sides of the block all the way down to the upper main area.  Olds made
the blocks much lighter (and weaker) by eliminating this excess iron.

Tony

------------------------------

From: a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com (john berenyi 956-6310)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:53:52 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #318

Can a 350 Turbo matic bolt in with no mods in place of the 2 speed
on my 67 Cutlass?

John

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:21:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Address?

On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Anthony Del Balso wrote:
> According to the Welcome to Oldsmobile Mailing LIst letter I received after
> I subscribed to the list, I send mail to 
> oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> 
> But the messages I receive are from a different address, should I mail to 
the 
> address listed in the header of received messages??
> anthony

Ooops, thanks for reminding me. We just had a domain name change happen 
yesterday at CCN and I need to update the welcome message. Officially, 
you should now send mail to:

Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

or to

majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca for subscribe/unsubscribe requests *only*

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: General ?

Dave Isho wrote:
>
> A while back Mike Frederick posted this list of Ford related lists:

Yeah...  Well... I was trying to get them out of my system now you just 
sent them all back!   :(

Just posted the URL where I found all this stuff.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:23:22 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 Performance Potential - Update

NHRA Stock class rules require the car to be very stock.  
The block and heads must be of the same year castings as the car is,
and had to have been a engine available in that make/model.  
intake manifold must be stock.  carb must of a make/type that
was available on that car (this means that this particular L stocker
is most likely a qjet).  cam must be of a stock profile.  headers
and open exhaust are allowable.  no porting or polishing can be done 
to the heads,  I'm not sure if port matching is even allowable.

drag stocks, airbags in the springs, and usually 4.x:1 or 5.x:1 gears.
I met a Stock racer once at the southern nats, he was adjusting his front
brakes.  he told me that he adjusts the front drums before ever run
in competition to allow for the minimum amount of drag.  

why does a NHRA S/L 307 cutlass turn in the 12's and a "showroom" 307
cutlass turn in the the 16/17's??  The S/L undoubtably went on a serious
weight reduction program (no a/c pb ps spare tire, radio, sound insolation,
rear seat, plus its probably a drum brake car, not a disk brake car).
Plus the chassis is, no doubt, seriously tuned,  he probably launches at 4 or
5 grand and gets all the rubber (slicks) to hook up with the nose in
the nose in the air.  Not to mention a seriously blueprinted engine.

Stock and Super Stock are two of my favorite classes in drag racing.
There is also an Olds Vista Cruiser from about 1983/4 blue w/ wood 
paneling running S/KA or something around K/L.  I've seen him running
at the southern nats for at least 7-8 years.  

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:27:59 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted

On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Dan Williams wrote:
> I was wondering was is the difference between the deluxe and non-deluxe 
> seat belts.  I've seen chrome (which I assume is deluxe) and colored 
> (non-deluxe?).  Is this correct?  Is there a difference between the 
> bench and the bucket seatbelts?
> 
> Speaking of seatbelts, I need a 68 passenger's side right seatbelt for 
> buckets.  The side with the buckle (chrome).  Also, I need a center cap 
> for a SSI.

My understanding of this is that standard belts were black and deluxe 
belts were color-keyed. Which of course begs the question of why you 
would order deluxe belts with a black interior...

Maybe it is the buckles too. On my '68 which I assume has standard belts 
- - they are black, but so is the interior, so who knows - the buckles are 
big, clunky black plastic or bakelite things with a blue GM logo for the 
pushbutton release. I have seen much more elegant-looking chrome or 
stainless buckles in '70 or '71 models that use a black pushbutton with 
(I think) a Fisher Body carriage as the logo. Don't know if these are 
deluxe or just a later design. I have never seen a '68 with the chrome 
buckles so if you have them I assume you have deluxe belts.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:23:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Headers Hookers 

Hooker Super comp headers with 1 7/8 tubes will fit without lifting the
engine.
you must remove starter, oil filter housing, dip stick, and trans dust shield
to install
headers, then put them back on after headers are on.   Cost of headers is
about 329.00 and add another 200 for Jet Hot coating.  

W Machines

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:31:37 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Headers disagree 

In a message dated 96-10-02 06:18:34 EDT, you write:

<< I had headers on my '70 442 when I bought it.  Gave them away and got
myself 
 the W/Z dual exh. manis and couldn't be happier.  They last forever, are 
 quiet, and I no longer need to drive a screwdriver through the oil filter to

 remove it  when I change the oil.   >>

With Hookers, I don't need a screwdriver to remove my oil filter.  The
headers 
are easy to install from underneath.  Yes they are a bit more noisy, but that
is 
what a street car is supose to sound like.  I run 3 inch exhaust through
Flowmasters
with 3 inch tailpipes.  I love it, I run 12.40's @ 108.63 mph with
drivability and 
I love to hear the car rumble.  As for dipstick tubes, they are still
availible at
dealerships and cost is cheap.  Now I just need to matchport my headers to
go faster and such.

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30 Race Rocket

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:40:03 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 Olds W31 

In a message dated 96-10-02 15:27:27 EDT, you write:

<< Also, I'm not sure, but I think all of the W-machines were made in Lansing

 ("M" is the 7th character in the VIN)  How about it gang?  Since the 
 W-machines were "select" cars, would they all have been made at the source 
 of all things wonderful i.e. Lansing? >>

Yes all W-machines were made in Lansing.  Also look for manual brakes on the
W-31.  All W-31's came with manual brakes due to the 308 duration cams i.e.
not enough vacuum to operater power brakes.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:57:51 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

>Maybe it is the buckles too. On my '68 which I assume has standard belts 
>- they are black, but so is the interior, so who knows - the buckles are 
>big, clunky black plastic or bakelite things with a blue GM logo for the 
>pushbutton release.

That's what you'd get, yes. Hey, anyone got the even-earlier design from
1964 vintage? There's no button at all on those; instead you're supposed
to grab the rear edge of the buckle and lift it to release the tab. Not
real intuitive or easy to accomplish compared to the later designs.

>I have seen much more elegant-looking chrome or 
>stainless buckles in '70 or '71 models that use a black pushbutton with 
>(I think) a Fisher Body carriage as the logo. Don't know if these are 
>deluxe or just a later design.

I thought those were a later design. I kind of think this was a corporate 
change across the board. I know they get a lot hotter in the sun than the
older black plastic ones.

>I have never seen a '68 with the chrome 
>buckles so if you have them I assume you have deluxe belts.

...or somebody put in newer ones? 

This reminds me; in our trip to St. Louis last week we stopped by Union
Station downtown -- remodeled as an indoor, very-upscale mall instead of
the train station it used to be -- and one of the stores was selling
backpacks and tote bags made, as near as I could tell, from pieces of
inner tube, with the flaps secured using GM seat belts and buckles. Your
choice of chrome or color-keyed. Sorry, they didn't say which were the
"deluxe" models, though.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:08:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting

     
     
        I agree that Sunday at 3 pm at Schaumburg Fudds is the way to go.  
     Let's get a show of 'hands' on who is planning to attend.  To make 
     sure we synch up, how about meeting in the parking lot by our 
     'rockets' (yeah, I know some of you don't have any now, but that's 
     okay).  This will allow us to identify each other, and let us take a 
     look at the cars before dusk.
     
        Count me as the first official 'yes, I am planning on attending'.
     
     
     
Brett Chaveriat                                    Arlington Hts, IL 
brett@actel.com
72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.

______________________________ Forward Header 
__________________________________
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting
Author:  "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com> at SMTPlink-Actel
Date:    10/2/96 1:57 PM


>I just called Fuddrucker's (847) 519-9390, and was told they have 
>no TV's. My suggestion would be Hooter's in Schaumburg. They have 
>a large parking lot, TV's, good food, and, well, ahh,.... a nice 
>atmosphere.
     
Much as I like Hooters for, um, business lunches (their downtown 
branch is a few blocks from our office), this won't fly with the 
management at home. 3:00 p.m. at Schaumburg Fuddruckers? Agree or 
disagree? (And are we having email problems today, or is the net 
just unusually quiet?)
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:18:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

>        I agree that Sunday at 3 pm at Schaumburg Fudds is the way to go.  
>     Let's get a show of 'hands' on who is planning to attend.  To make 
>     sure we synch up, how about meeting in the parking lot by our 
>     'rockets' (yeah, I know some of you don't have any now, but that's 
>     okay).  This will allow us to identify each other, and let us take a 
>     look at the cars before dusk.

Okay. My hand is up. How promptly I get there at 3 depends on how the
Bears are doing (Slaughter/Tied/Overtime/Down-to-the-Wire/Finished).
Look for a white SSEi (yeah, well, sue me) with license plates of
"I BYTE" (sue me for that, too :-)

And if there are any out-of-state people teetering on the edge of
going, let us know if some extra help would make a difference...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:43:00 -0300
Subject: RE: W-31

Dave,
Let me be more general in my reply.  I was speaking specifically regarding 
Darren's possible W31 find.  According to pg 8-6 of my '70 shop manual, the 
following cars are equipped with fuel return lines: all 442's, all Toros, 
all W engines, all cars with A/C except L-6 and 350 4 bbl..  How's that?  I 
still haven't heard an opinion from any one on where W machines were 
built?????
 ----------
From: david wyatt
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: W-31
Date: Wednesday, October 02, 1996 4:08PM


Scott,
I have a standard everyday run of the mill 70 4-4-2 that was built in
Lansing. It has the fuel return line as you describe. When you say "W-
machine" do you include my type of Olds or just the W-30s and 31s?

Dave Wyatt  70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:23:27 -0300
Subject: Re: The big bad J.B!...was (and still is) Re: Not your avera 

     . . . or use it to fill in the webs on a 403 ;-)

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: The big bad J.B!...was (and still is) Re: Not your average e
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/2/96 1:56 PM
     
 Hey!  That sounds a lot like J.B. Weld.  I remember reading some
     testamonials on the package a couple years ago exclaiming all the 
     amazing uses for the stuff.  The one that really stuck in my head was 
     one from some farmer somewhere that had actually used J.B. Weld to 
     repair a cracked enigine block in his tractor!!

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:35:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Support for Classic Olds Owners 

At 03:26 AM 9/24/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Olds FAQ gives us Canadians another source for info "Vintage Vehicle
>Services Limited" for cars built for Canadian market, even if built in USA.
>1-800-263-3777
>Has anyone paid the $42.80 for it? What did you think?

>Marvin Friesen
>Prince Rupert, BC, Canada

Yes I have done this last year.  I think for that little money (relative to
the car) you get a lot of information about it including all the options
that the car came with, where and when it was built, which Dealership it was
sold from, how many of that particular model were produced for sale in
Canada etc.  You also get a 30 page AMA Specifications book on the car (ie.
Upper Compression Ring - Cast Iron with Crowned and Molybdenum Plated O.D.,
Width: 0.0770-0.0780, Gap: 0.013-0.023).  You also get a 67 page Vintage
Vehicle Restoration Guide.  The table of contents is:  Introduction, General
Motors - How it all Began, In Canada - The Early Years, A General Motors
Family Album, Important GM Dates, Some General Information, A Word about
Shop Manuals, GM Restoration Parts Licensing Program, Car Clubs, Services
(34 pages of parts places and services with descriptions of what they
specialize in), Literature.
If you have any other questions regarding this just let me know.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:12:26 -0300
Subject: proctect -o- plate question 

Hi.

I was looking at my protect -o- plate for my '72 Cutlass Cruiser today.  I 
noticed a number : 00005 in the lower right part of it.  What is this number 
for?  I know it is not the dealer id or vin.

Thanks

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase/wagon.html

p.s.

I received my JWO today.  Art, you didn't mention the '72 Vista Cruiser pace 
car/support vehicle from the Indy 500.  Why does your wagon have ralley 
wheels and a hood scoop?  Is this the w45/w46 Cutlass wagon?  What about the 
ralley wheels and paint scheme for the Vista Cruiser?  Was it actually used 
at the event?

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:10:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 H.P 

     What to do to wake up a 307?  Good question.  I'm using the Hypertech 
     chip on my '84 H/O and it does make a difference that I can feel 
     (barely), but for $108 plus the penalty of having to use 92 octane gas 
     all the time, I have to ask whether it was worth it.  I think the 
     money would probably be better spent on some low-restriction mufflers 
     (don't have those yet, probably will wait 'till the stock system is 
     shot and then buy a whole new 2.5" or 3" Torque Tech system) or a K&N 
     filter (got that, helps a little but also costs very little).
     
     If you live in a warm-all-the-time climate, you may want to consider 
     blocking off the exhaust heat crossover passage.  It snows here, so I 
     compromised by getting a 180 degree high-flow thermostat instead.  
     Keeps the engine a bit cooler and seems to help power just a tad, I 
     assume this bonus is from the cooler intake manifold.
     
     If the car isn't tuned well, your best bet is to spend the money doing 
     a complete tune-up first.  AC Plugs, Cap, Rotor, set timing, synthetic 
     motor oil, change tranny fluid, hit carb with carb cleaner, etc.  
     This, in addition to flushing the cooling system and changing any 
     belts or hoses that aren't in good shape, is the first thing I do when 
     getting a car before beginning any hop-ups.  It may just be me, but 
     doing all this basic stuff really helps me to feel better about the 
     car and be able to "trust" it more, both for driving reliability and 
     performance reasons.  If you have any reason to believe your O2 sensor 
     isn't functioning 100% or your TPS isn't set correctly, or the plug 
     wires are shot, check those too.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 307 H.P
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    10/2/96 1:56 PM
     
     I've got an '86 Cutlass 442 with the 307 and was wanting to do a 
     little something to it.  It doesn't need to be rebuilt nd I'm still in 
     school so I can't afford much.  Does anyone know if aftermarket 
     computer chips work okay and if so which d o you think is the best to 
     buy?

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:27:06 -0300
Subject: Re: General ?

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Chris Blumenstein wrote:
> >
> > Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the
> > ones that aren't Olds;-0
> 
> Somebody else makes cars besides Olds?   :o
> 
> Try ftp://ftp.wizvax.net/pub/personal/rwelty/Autos/mailing-lists.text
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>      (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
>Thanks alot for the info :)

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:31:11 -0300
Subject: Re: General ?

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the ones
> >that aren't Olds;-0
> 
> There are other makes of cars?  :-)
> 
> Okay, Richard Welty posts an occasional listing to the rec.autos.* and
> misc.consumers Usenet newsgroups listing all known car lists. You can
> also ransack the http://www.eauto.com site for listings under the auto
> marque of your choice, although their quality control is bit sloppier
> than Welty's...
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
>Thanks alot :)

------------------------------

From: Chris Blumenstein <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:36:22 -0300
Subject: ATTENTION:PLEASE

Does any one know how I can get a car from Ohio to Iowa?
It doesn't have a engine or tranny so its pretty light.
Please help

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:54:33 -0300
Subject: Re: ATTENTION:PLEASE

> Does any one know how I can get a car from Ohio to Iowa?
> It doesn't have a engine or tranny so its pretty light.
> Please help

I guess driving it is out.

Rent a tow-dolly from U-Haul?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:34:38 -0300
Subject: Re: ATTENTION:PLEASE

Well you could have a towing company do it. Probably would cost a little
less than $1,000 assuming they charge the standard rate of $1.50 a mile. 

At 09:36 PM 10/2/96 -0300, Chris Blumenstein wrote:
>Does any one know how I can get a car from Ohio to Iowa?
>It doesn't have a engine or tranny so its pretty light.
>Please help
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 CFI 305/TH-350....daily driver
81 Camaro 229V6/3spd man....................don't know yet
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH350................show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH350................restoration project

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:36:33 -0300
Subject: Question about 425/455 cams

  I was going to build a 455 for my 67 442.  After spending 1500 on a =
frame I dont have enuff cash to build the 455 this winter.  So now I'm =
looking at tossing a cam in the 425.  Will a 455 cam work in a 425?  If =
not, can anyone point me in the direction of someone who sells cams for =
425's?  And lastly, can anyone recomend a cam lift and duration?  Heres =
the vitals:

67 442 Convertible
425 w/ stock innards
tri power intake
4 speed close ratio manual trans
4.11 posi rearend
manual brakes

A rough idle is ok and gas milage doesnt matter.  I'm looking to go as =
fast as possible with what I have to work with.=20

Thanks,=20
Ken

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:51:19 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

In a message dated 96-10-02 15:50:18 EDT, you write:

> deluxe and non-deluxe 
>  seat belts.

Deluxe belts have a chrome or brushed chrome buckle and the webbing is color
keyed to the interior color.

Standard belts have a black buckle and the webbing is black only.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:51:24 -0300
Subject: Re: proctect -o- plate question 

In a message dated 96-10-02 18:20:31 EDT, you write:

> I was looking at my protect -o- plate for my '72 Cutlass Cruiser today.  I 
>  noticed a number : 00005 in the lower right part of it.  What is this
number 
> 
>  for?

Mine reads 00014.  It's the original delivery mileage so that the dealer knew
when the warranty stopped, ie: 12005, 12014.

This is from the 1972 Oldsmobile Service Policies and Procedures Manual:
... The first owner of the vehicle, as well as all subsequent owners during
the warranty period, are entitled to all the benefits of the warranty,
starting from the mileage and date of delivery shown on the
Protect-O-Plate...

I think you're out of warranty though...

So am I

Paul

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:59:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Valve Covers Wanted 

any old 350 covers will work.I have a set off of my 65 330 motor, but
original, wouldn't want to give them up, especially for modification.

Katana72   It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!!!!!       Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:03:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Question about 425/455 cams 

Talk to Schneider Racing Cams in San Diego, CA. They custom ground a cam for
my 65 330 motor. 482/492 lift 282 duration and 110 lobe separation. The
Number's in the phone book.

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:05:50 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

>>Maybe it is the buckles too. On my '68 which I assume has standard belts 
>>- they are black, but so is the interior, so who knows - the buckles are 
>>big, clunky black plastic or bakelite things with a blue GM logo for the 
>>pushbutton release.
>
>That's what you'd get, yes. Hey, anyone got the even-earlier design from
>1964 vintage? There's no button at all on those; instead you're supposed
>to grab the rear edge of the buckle and lift it to release the tab. Not
>real intuitive or easy to accomplish compared to the later designs.
>
>>I have seen much more elegant-looking chrome or 
>>stainless buckles in '70 or '71 models that use a black pushbutton with 
>>(I think) a Fisher Body carriage as the logo. Don't know if these are 
>>deluxe or just a later design.
>
>I thought those were a later design. I kind of think this was a corporate 
>change across the board. I know they get a lot hotter in the sun than the
>older black plastic ones.
>
>>my three 68 Toronados all had the brushed buckle and in looking at a 68
sales brochure they are shown in everything from the Toro and 98 to the 88
and cutlass supreme though the brochure does not mention the avalibility of
a standard or deluxe buckle.
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: holgate@juno.com (David T. Holgate) 
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:38:45 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile dics brakes

What if any difference is there between 69' Cutlass front disc brake
spindles, rotors, calipers and a 70 Olds set-up? In otherwords, I have a
chance to get a 69' front disc set-up and want to know if they'll fit my
70'.

Dave Holgate
(holgate@juno.com)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:29:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile dics brakes ii 

dave i am going off line line now it is 10:28 pm now.  give me a call now.

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:37:00 -0300
Subject: Re: General ? 

At 08:22 PM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Dave Isho wrote:
>>
>
>Yeah...  Well... I was trying to get them out of my system now you just 
>sent them all back!   :(
>
DU-OH!!!

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:36:09 -0300
Subject: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

> Chuck Noppe
>
> Oldsnut @ westworld.com
>
>
> 71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
> 71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
> 72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
> 72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey Chuck,

What does the '72 Toro look like? Does it still have the sleekish 66-69 shape
or the later, more squarish look? Never seen a '72, saw a '70 which kinda
had the sleek 66-69 look w/ headlights in the center grill. Wild-looking!

Thanks,

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:40:48 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #318 

At 04:53 PM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Can a 350 Turbo matic bolt in with no mods in place of the 2 speed
>on my 67 Cutlass?
>
>John
>
John, I did this. As long as the TH350 is a Buick Pontiac or Olds (BOP)
tranny it will go in without a hitch. I used a shifter cable from a Pontiac
to connect to my floor shifter.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:49:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Red Fender Liners 

Saw a '72 W30 at the Wisconsin Dells show a few weeks ago. Had one red
inner fender *and* one black. The owner figured maybe it had been accident
repaired or something in its lifetime. Whaddyou all think?

Anyhow, the guy picked it up for $2700 not running (nor 100% correct- had
'68 block and steel intake). He put it together and has been burning rubber
ever since!

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:48:00 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

At 05:27 PM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I have never seen a '68 with the chrome 
>buckles so if you have them I assume you have deluxe belts.
>
My 67 Cutlass has the deluxe (color keyed) belts with the chrome buckle and
it is a FB carriage on the button. I need a set of replacements if anyone
has them (blue).

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
     

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:06:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

>> Chuck Noppe
>>
>> Oldsnut @ westworld.com
>>
>>
>> 71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
>> 71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
>> 72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
>> 72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Hey Chuck,
>
>What does the '72 Toro look like? Does it still have the sleekish 66-69 shape
>or the later, more squarish look? Never seen a '72, saw a '70 which kinda
>had the sleek 66-69 look w/ headlights in the center grill. Wild-looking!
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Darren Shroeger 
> '68 442 / 4-speed
> '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
> <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*
>
>Darren, the 72 Toronado from the side looked simular to the 67-70 Eldorado
The car was much bigger and conciderably less sleek, It was meant to compete
with the more personal luxury segment and was the engineers Mk IV in a way
the car has a long hood that comes forward kinda like the coffin nosed cords
with the grills hidden in the bumper under the headlights and a second set
of brake lights in the back panel under the back window. They were a very
differnt beast than the origanal though unique in there own repects.
The origanal toronado was 66-70 and until 69 had a fastback roofline. In 69
and 70 this was a bit changed with the squaring off of the rear quarter
panels.The second series was built from 71-78 and were a more formal less
sporty car.
The third series was built from 79-85.

While some only like the origanal Toros, these cars are a delight to drive and
still can be purchased for a reasonable sum.

hope you see one for yourself soon, I may submit an artical to bricemans
page one of these days on that car. i have just finished the paint and
bodywork on my 71 cadillac and hope to start on my Regency next.
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:10:05 -0300
Subject: Re: seatbelts and parts wanted 

>At 05:27 PM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I have never seen a '68 with the chrome 
>>buckles so if you have them I assume you have deluxe belts.
>>
>My 67 Cutlass has the deluxe (color keyed) belts with the chrome buckle and
>it is a FB carriage on the button. I need a set of replacements if anyone
>has them (blue).
>
> >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
>     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible...up on jackstands again!!
>     
>I am going to pick a part this weekend, if i run across any i will pick
them up if you want....
>
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:06:12 -0300
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile dics brakes

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB0B6.75DEE920
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe the only difference is the proportioning valve being different =
in apperance only, if your not looking for that correct look there is no =
difference.

- ----------
From: 	David T. Holgate[SMTP:holgate@juno.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, October 02, 1996 11:38 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Oldsmobile dics brakes

What if any difference is there between 69' Cutlass front disc brake
spindles, rotors, calipers and a 70 Olds set-up? In otherwords, I have a
chance to get a 69' front disc set-up and want to know if they'll fit my
70'.

Dave Holgate
(holgate@juno.com)




- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB0B6.75DEE920
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB0B6.75DEE920--

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:17:49 -0300
Subject: My 80 442 is on the web 

I sent this before and did not see it post. My 80 442 W-30 is on Bryceman's
web page now for all that are interested in seeing it. Address is
http://www.442.com/labay.html. Any comment's are welcome.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 CFI 305/TH-350....daily driver
81 Camaro 229V6/3spd man....................don't know yet
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH350................show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH350................restoration project

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:29:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

> While some only like the origanal Toros, these cars are a delight to drive
and
> still can be purchased for a reasonable sum.

Funny you should say that... The reason for my inquiry is that I ran into
someone at the auto parts store th'other day who was mad at his '72 Toro
and would be perhaps inclined to sell it on the super-cheap.

Haven't contacted him yet, but my curiosity is aroused. Would make
quite a driver for a snowy Northern Michigan winter!

Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...
Should have a medium compression 455 (what, 9.5:1?) with Ga heads.

> hope you see one for yourself soon, I may submit an artical to bricemans
> page one of these days on that car.

T'would be great to have that info, Chuck!

Thanks,

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:05:57 -0300
Subject: Big Disc ROtors 

Does anybody know what the thickness spec is for 67-70  big car front
disc rotors? I'm thinking about picking up some extras in the boneyard,
but don't know how thin they can be and still be legally turned.
thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:08:53 -0300
Subject: Hello again

Well, some of you may have noticed that I haven't posted to the list in
well over a month.  Not that I was a heavy poster anyway, but it still
felt bad to be quiet all that time.  I went back to school this fall
after a nice summer and I've been swamped big time.  I just finished
"skimming" the 14 digests I had gotten behind on and I'd like to poke my
head in and make a few comments.

On the 120mph speedo:  call Lauren Engineering, they should be selling
it by now.  The speedo's for Monte Carlos and Camaros etc.(which Lauren
has sold for a while) will NOT fit, they are larger.  I think they'll
charge $30 or so for the whole kit with instructions.  Phone number is
on Bryce's web page.

On the "What is the potential of the 307?" thread, you said you were
thinking about a 403 or hopping up the 307.  IMHO, you're best off with
an older 350 block to start with.

307:  why bother, there are plenty of 350s around, and the extra cubes
are a large, easy step to more ponies.  It's a straight swap, and the
only difference anyone will know is the casting numbers.

403:  a decent choice, and the windowed webs probably won't come back to
bite you for a ~300HP motor.  But if you want to watch spiraling costs,
there's another factor to think about:  heat, and those cubes make a lot
of it.  I guess the big block guys like Charlie B. could tell you how to
keep your G-body cool, but if you don't want to be ripping out your
radiator and looking for a bigger fan, stick with a 350.

I've posted my (planned, not quite implemented) combo before, but I'll
do it again for the new guys, because I want to see what a car like this
can do.  I'm talking a g-body with a spicey 350 that's still 100%
streetable and even on the computer (gas mileage suffers, but who really
cares anyway?)

350 block, 7A heads, Edelbrock performer intake #3711, cam with
Edelbrock Performer Plus #3712 specs, headers, and various machine work
(bores +.030 for straightness, valve job and maybe some mild porting for
the heads).  This should buy you about 300hp with a very healthy amount
of torque.  We're not talking a 455 here, but you'll be able to shred
your tires on a whim.  You've got an '85 Salon (I like these a lot),
which I believe makes 140HP stock with the 'Y' 307, so that's a big
jump.  Uh, I'm not sure what the gears are, but I'm going to guess they
are 2.73s, because I've seen other '85 Cutlasses with 'Y' motors and
2.73s.  That kind of sucks, but that motor will still move you.  Oh, the
tranny - watch out, you've probably got the dreaded TH-200C, which
should get crunched in a hurry by a torquey 350.  Ideally, you'd want a
3.73 rear end out of a 442 or Monte SS etc and the TH-200R4 with
overdrive, but on a budget, a TH-350 swap for that 200 will do OK.

The computer:  I'm keeping mine, but I'm getting a new PROM to take
advantage of the new motor.  A LONG while back, someone posted three
different places to try calling about a PROM, one of which was
Hypertech, and I called all three and saved the results, but my server
crashed a couple weeks back and I lost ALL my Olds list stuff, MAJOR
BUMMER.  Anyway, Hypertech was useless, they said they were very limited
in what they could legally modify, etc. etc., one of the other places
was only into fuel injection, but one place was a good lead.  The guy
said they could do the whole deal, spark curves for all throttle
positions, with or without ECM, etc. etc.  I didn't ask, but they could
probably do other neat stuff like provide a rev limiter within the
programming.  They'll do a custom chip - you tell them the specs of your
motor, they determine the optimal curves - for like $200-$300.  Pricey,
but well worth it IMHO.  Problem is, like I said, I lost all the stuff
(long story), so if anyone saved the posts relating to that discussion,
PLEASE repost them - I posted a detailed description of my conversations
that I desparately need back if anyone still has it.  If not, the names
and phone numbers of the places will do as well.

That's about all for now (it's already an LFP).  Any other questions,
keep 'em coming.  I've been having mucho trouble finding time to read my
beloved Olds list lately, but I'm trying, and if I drop the ball,
there's lots 'o folks who can help (and do), but you've already seen
that.

Cheers!

==================-----------------------------
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
(517) 346-7104   |                   -Yoda
==================-----------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:45:53 -0300
Subject: My 80 442 is on the web

For all of you interested in seeing my 80 442 it is now on Bryceman's web 
page. Under owners registry. http://www.442.com/labay.html I welcome any 
comments, opinions....
- -- 
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
88 Iroc-Z/28............daily driver
80 Olds 442 W-30........show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25......restoration project
74 Riviera Stage I 455..winter ride

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:05:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like?

Darren Shroeger wrote:

> Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...
> Should have a medium compression 455 (what, 9.5:1?) with Ga heads.

Well I have a 72 Toro parts car in my yard and it has a J head 455. 
According to my book it is a 190hp, low compression engine? 


- -- 
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
88 Iroc-Z/28............daily driver
80 Olds 442 W-30........show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25......restoration project

------------------------------

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:22:44 -0300
Subject: W/Z dual exhaust manifolds?

A man mentioned the W/Z dual exhaust manifolds on 455 motors.  What are 
these and how can you tell if you have them?

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:16:03 -0300
Subject: Da Best Engine & Wheel Paint 

Hello all,

Anyone found the perfect engine paint for the 68-69 G-block 400?
I believe it is the same paint as used with the 65-67 E400's also.

I've seen the Supercars 'bronze' paint on a few G blocks and it looked
too light. Also I believe the Brothers was too light- both appeared
halfway between the correct bronze color and 350 gold.

I was thinking about trying Fusick's for the bronze, but definitely wanted
to solicite some experienced opinions from y'all.

Also, howbout the gray paint for SSII's? I gave my painter the part #
from the Year One catalog to cross-reference to a more durable one-step
acrylic. The original lacquer probably wouldn't hold up well in the
Michigan weather. Opinions?

Thanks,

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:26:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Big Disc ROtors 

>
>Does anybody know what the thickness spec is for 67-70  big car front
>disc rotors? I'm thinking about picking up some extras in the boneyard,
>but don't know how thin they can be and still be legally turned.
>thanks
>cf
>
>Looked up your question in my 69 Cadillac manual and it does not specify.
it states that a disc cannot be machined in the field... we have come a long
way since 69... check with your local brake supply house.
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:27:13 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 307 Performance Potential - Update 

why does a NHRA S/L 307 cutlass turn in the 12's and a "showroom" 307
cutlass turn in the the 16/17's??  The S/L undoubtably went on a serious
weight reduction program (no a/c pb ps spare tire, radio, sound insolation,
rear seat, plus its probably a drum brake car, not a disk brake car).

          Actually, I disagree.  Each Stock class has a specific
          weight break, so it is not possible or necessary to strip
          the car.  I also don't think one could even order drum front
          brakes on a late-80s G-body car.  The smog equipment is
          removed and the carb jetted and timing adjusted to optimize
          the performance.  Mostly it is getting all the parts to work
          together in an optimum fashion.  It takes many long hours of
          track testing to get this performance.  In addition, the car
          may now be a strip blazer, but I doubt it would be much fun
          on the street.

Plus the chassis is, no doubt, seriously tuned,  he probably launches at 4 or
5 grand and gets all the rubber (slicks) to hook up with the nose in
the nose in the air.  Not to mention a seriously blueprinted engine.

          All true.
                        
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:29:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

>Darren Shroeger wrote:
>
>> Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...
>> Should have a medium compression 455 (what, 9.5:1?) with Ga heads.
>
>Well I have a 72 Toro parts car in my yard and it has a J head 455. 
>According to my book it is a 190hp, low compression engine? 
>
>But lets remember that by 1972 the ratings were net horse power not gross
as in years prior to 1971
>-- 
>Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
>88 Iroc-Z/28............daily driver
>80 Olds 442 W-30........show car
>75 Hurst/Olds W-25......restoration project
>
>
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com


71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:31:49 -0300
Subject: Thanks Bryce!

To All,

I finally got the pictures to Bryce and he has added my 1966 Toro to his web 
site.

For those interested, visit/click on:  http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html

Bryce did an OUTSTANDING job and I encourage any and all of you to take 
advantage of his 
talents and generosity!!!

Comments are welcomed.

Thanks again Bryce, I really appreciate all your efforts.

Sparky
- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:35:27 -0300
Subject: Re: FRP 

Besides being a picky person  (i dont just take references on services, i
want to see 3-4 examples of previous work)  I was raised by a pair of
*perfectionists*.  I had just heard varying terms around when I was having
my Vista Cruiser done regarding different formula fillers with fiberglass -
the VC wasnt in need of more than massaged metal & REMOVED trim detail.  I
never go out shopping for parts or services without as much info as possible
- - its bad enough I get talked DOWN TO being a female - I love to show them
up when I can with KNOWLEDGE.  The '66 has previous body work & signs its
deteriorated - 99.9% sure I'll talk the other half into new metal, but just
in case - I wanna go ARMED when we get down to negotiations.

Thanks for all insight - 
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:44:41 -0300
Subject: Re: FRP digest for Lisa 

Bless your heart Travis - just a synopsis will suffice - I've been reading,
etc.  And as for watching the work in progress  - i'll trust to a point -
but I never let them think I trust completely!  The guy who did my V-C is a
buddy of 18 yrs. and I checked up on him.....when he least expected it of
course...

By the way - did you ever pick a new color for Tiny?  I have Tiny's cousin -
the '67 Delta 88 but I'm terrifically fond of her Cameo Ivory (thats why the
V-C is that shade too).

We have to pick a color for the '66 too - going back through what its been -
we have several choices!

Thanks in advance - 

Sincerely

James Thingwold
Glass Line Newsletter 
120 S Kroeger St.
Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA

Phone: (714) 520-0121
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Mail:                                  jht@exo.com  
OR                                        jim@hotglass.com

No frames :                          http://www.hotglass.com/

NetScape,  Frames :          http://exo.com/~jht/index.html
This document is designed to be viewed using Java & Netscape 2.0's Frame
Features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:44:46 -0300
Subject: Re: FRP digest for Lisa 

Bless your heart Travis - a synopsis will suffice - I've been reading.  And
as for watching work in progress - I've never been one to let anyone think I
turn my *babies* over to them carte blanche without spot checks & critical
observation.  The guy who did my V-C is a buddy of 18 yrs. and I checked up
on him too - which he cagily tried avoiding.....

By the way - did you ever pick a color for Tiny?  I have Tiny's cousin - the
'67 Delta 88.  I am terribly fond of her Cameo Ivory though & cannot imagine
her any other color.  Thats why I picked it for the V-C too (altho the 30
yr. old version is lighter than my 6 mo. old version!)

Thanks in advance - 
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: Tony Waldner <tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:44:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Question about 425/455 cams

At 09:36 PM 10/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>  I was going to build a 455 for my 67 442.  After spending 1500 on a frame
I dont have enuff cash to build the 455 this winter.  So now I'm looking at
tossing a cam in the 425.  Will a 455 cam work in a 425?  If not, can anyone
point me in the direction of someone who sells cams for 425's?  And lastly,
can anyone recomend a cam lift and duration?  Heres the vitals:
>
>67 442 Convertible
>425 w/ stock innards
>tri power intake
>4 speed close ratio manual trans
>4.11 posi rearend
>manual brakes
>
>A rough idle is ok and gas milage doesnt matter.  I'm looking to go as fast
as possible with what I have to work with. 
>
>Thanks, 
>Ken
>
>
>Ken --

What year is your 425 block?  If it is a '67 it will have the correct 39
degree lifter bank angle and your 455 cam will work.  A '66 toro 425 will
also have this same bank angle but it will use a lager diameter lifter
(.921)  The cam will still work fine.  If it is a '65 or a '66 passenger car
block it will have a 45 degree lifter bank angle and a 455 cam will not work.

Tony

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:50:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Olds list 

I'm planniong to be there with two small fry in tow, they too will order some
sort of jr meal they will not eat, but which will hopefully keep them busy
enough to allow me to converse about the beauties and wonders of Oldsmobiles.

No offense but the Bears game is not a major attraction, nor is Fuddruckers,
it's the cars and the people who own them I'm interested in meeting, more or
less prefer the noon idea and hope that this is a confirmed event, place and
time.  Thanks for checking on it Andy.

Hope to see the Chicago area folks there and then.

David Wilk
Glencoe (home) david1756@aol.com
Chicago (office) dww@lb.com

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:56:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

You wrote:
>     I like the option of delaying the meet until 3 on Sunday as >Andy 
>     suggested.  This eliminates the need to worry about >missing the game, 
 >    and will let us enjoy our meeting.  
     
Can we try for noon?  3 pushes it too late for the kids to have much chance
of decent behavior
   
 >      If we don't delay the meet, it may be difficult to find a >location 
 >    that has TVs and will readily accommodate a group of kids.  >An 
>     alternative may be Russell's Barbecue on Algonquin Rd in Rolling 
>     Meadows.  It is in the vicinity of Fudds.  They have a big screen TV, 
  
This idea sounds pretty good.  How does everyone else feel?

David Wilk

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:58:57 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 Headers 

 Not that 455 big ones aren't enough, but the world is a cruel 
>place, and nitrous oxide is the assault rifle of the automotive world (i.e. 
>irrationally  feared & maligned, but really nice to have in certain 
>situations, e.g. when that snot nosed kid in the 5.0 'stang with the Paxton 
>attempts to overtake your chariot.....).
>
     Granted, you won't actually have to hook the nitrous up, it would just
make the kid feel better ~thinking~ you have it!!!   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:59:22 -0300
Subject: Re: test 

>david wyatt wrote:
>> 
>> test
>
>B-
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

     No Fair, you musta studied!!!  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:59:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 350 Headers in 84 Cutlass 

>NOTE:  The emissions question is irrelevant, as long as the exhaust is quiet
>enough to drive by cops while cruising w/o attracting attention.

     <<<OR>>>  Have it fast enough that the cops can't catch ya by the time
you reach the state line!.....   :)

     When I did my dual exhaust (ok, HAD it done,) the crossmember posed a
problem.  If I'd had headers, I would have needed to notch the crossmember
to clear the driver's side tube.  As it is now, both pipes run along the
pass side, then split up behind the tailshaft, where the 40" packs ride.
>From there it is a normal system.  
     Since you're running a small block, you're headers will be fairly easy
to find.  (and not too bad to install.  Us bigblock guys don't have that
luxury!)  If you really get creative, you can drill a hole and weld a bolt
to the collector to house the oxygen sensor (and run multiport...) and drill
bosses for the air pipes.  Some paperwork, red tape, and sweettalking to the
right people and you might even be able to license it there.  (Oh, wait,
that's CA, isn't it!)  Edelbrock can put that stuff on Chetty parts and get
an exemption order for it, so why can't the ~real~ cars do it???  Oh well...
If you plan on selling it ~really~ cheap, Montana's not too far away, and I
can drive those here!!!   :)

     Good Luck, etc...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:59:34 -0300
Subject: Re: General ? 

>Is there any other list like this about other makes of cars like the ones
>that aren't Olds;-0

You mean other than the retired veterans of towed fords?
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:59:41 -0300
Subject: Re: The big bad J.B!...was (and still is) Re: Not your average epoxy 

>> The manufacturer claims that it is strong enough to be used to repair 
>> cracked cylinder heads! (I know, but that's what thay say.)  
>
>	*snip*
>
>	Hey!  That sounds a lot like J.B. Weld.  The one that really stuck in 
my
head was one from
>some farmer somewhere that had actually used J.B. Weld to repair a
>cracked enigine block in his tractor!!  Said it saved him hundreds of
>dollars in repair bills.  Boy, just think what it would do for you guys
>with frame problems....  ;)	
>	Hey, I wonder if you could use this stuff in place of bondo!


     OK, let's try it out.  We'll take a 403, and fill in those damned
windows!  ---2501!!---   Do it to those windowed blocks that carry
non-windowed casting #s so Joe doesn't get proved wrong again!  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:02:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 H.P 

>
>----- Begin Included Message -----
>
>>From slcannon@uncc.edu Tue Oct  1 20:00:33 1996
>From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:00:28 -0400
>To: oldsmobile@ccn.ca.dal.ca
>Subject: 307 H.P
>Cc: slcannon@uncc.edu
>
>Hey guys,
>
>	I've got an '86 Cutlass 442 with the 307 and was wanting to do a 
little
something to it.  It doesn't >need to be rebuilt nd I'm still in school so I
can't afford much.  

The cheapest thing i've ever done to make my car run a little faster was to
stack up two air filters in the air cleaner.  If your car has a snorkel air
cleaner and *if* you have enough room under the hood, you can just buy a
longer stud for the carbuerator and clamp down two air filters between the
filter base and lid.  

The car will be much louder under the hood because you will get a "whoosh"
sound when you give it gas that turns into a roar at high rpm.  It actually
sounds pretty cool.  You will be defeating the warmup pipe that runs from
the exhaust manifold to the snorkel on the air cleaner, so the car won't
warm up as fast.  Any other pollution control tubes(i.e. crankcase vent)
that might be running into the air cleaner will likewise be defeated since
the lid won't be sealed to the base anymore.   I imagine you'll have to run
just one air filter when you go to pollution inspection, I doubt it would
pass visual inspection with two stacked up.  

The best part of this mod is that if you don't notice any difference in
performance you can change it back and keep the extra air filter for your
next tune up.  

Usually the most cost effective modification you can make is to put the most
free flowing exhaust system on it you can afford.  Basically get some very
free-flowing mufflers.  Get air in as fast as you can and get rid of the
exhaust as fast as you can.  

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:03:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sunday Meeting 

>        I agree that Sunday at 3 pm at Schaumburg Fudds is the >way to go.  
>     Let's get a show of 'hands' on who is planning to attend

In responding to all the earlier messages, I of course blew it.

So, ok, I will aim for the 3 pm meeting at Schaumburg Fuddruckers and will
look for Oldsmobiles and Andy's Pontiac in the parking lot.

David Wilk
92 Buick Park Ave Ultra
I am not as old as my car makes me feel
Same color as my grandfather's Buick (dark blue) 

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:04:21 -0300
Subject: Re: RE: 455 Headers 

> I'm making the ponies.  (I have a 2.5" pipes and 2.25" tail pipes with stock

> trumpets and Sonic Turbo (ugh) mufflers.  A set of 15" Flowmasters are on
> the way, and so are 2.5" tailpipes.  I'll have to have my trumpets remade to

> take the bigger tailpipes, but it'll be worth it.)

Scott,

Which Flowmasters would be the ones to get for my '68 442? The tailpipes
currently on the car are 2"... Presume this is the stock size; anyone know
different? Gotta have those stock chrome trumpets yeknow!

The only 2" Flowmaster (Performace Street) I found specs out as follows:
(Jeg's catalog in hand)

part#      in/out  body  chambers  price
389-42051   2.00"   16"     3      $51.99

There are models of other sizes (2.25" - 3.5") in the Performance Street,
"Top Ten Shootout" Street, and Big-Block Series. Many are around $50, while
some are $100+. Whew!

Anyone have experience with the different Flowmaster variations? Love
to make sense of all this and get my mufflers ordered!

Thanks,

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: "Steven Bettis" <bettiss@empnet.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:07:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Question about 425/455 cams

Boy, talk about asking a loaded question. Everyone is going to have a
different idea of what cam you should use. I have used Crane, Compitition
cams, Mondello and Lunati. I liked the Mondello and Lunati best. I would
recomend a Mondello cam because he engineers his grinds to compensate for
the weak stock exhaust ports.
Looking in his latest catalog, I would go with a JM 18-20 or JM 20-22.
These are the largest he recomends wiith stock valve train. Keep in mind I
subscibe to the "more power" therory. You may want to step down depending
on your level of commitment.
(My idea of streetable is a roller cam and 4.56 gears). But again, we all
have are own ideas of what we are doing with our cars. Give Joe a call, 
he's a great guy. 805-237-8808.     ( the cams are all the same 330 - 455,
but you need to know your lifter diameter and bank angle on the
425's)........ Steve
From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: Question about 425/455 cams
Date: Wednesday, October 02, 1996 5:36 PM

  I was going to build a 455 for my 67 442.  After spending 1500 on a frame
I dont have enuff cash to build the 455 this winter.  So now I'm looking at
tossing a cam in the 425.  Will a 455 cam work in a 425?  If not, can
anyone point me in the direction of someone who sells cams for 425's?  And
lastly, can anyone recomend a cam lift and duration?  Heres the vitals:

67 442 Convertible
425 w/ stock innards
tri power intake
4 speed close ratio manual trans
4.11 posi rearend
manual brakes

A rough idle is ok and gas milage doesnt matter.  I'm looking to go as fast
as possible with what I have to work with. 

Thanks, 
Ken

- ----------

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:11:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Q: 425/455 cams--TriPower? 

>>67 442 Convertible
>>425 w/ stock innards
>>tri power intake
>>4 speed close ratio manual trans
>>4.11 posi rearend
>>manual brakes
>>
     Is that a '67 tri-power, too?  Does that throw off all the data about
the tri power thread (as I understood it, they were only a '66 option, and
the older ones...)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:20:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Graveyard in Spokane 

We're still Vista Cruiser searching - any and all info you can find out
about the two sighted - PLEASE pass on.  I have Spokane relatives - if you
could get a phone that'd be gold.  

Much anticipated -
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:22:45 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 Olds W31 

>
> Darren,
> I faxed a bunch of info that should help you determine the authenticity of
> that W31. 

Got the info: *Thanks!* I'm going to review it tonight.

One other thing you can look for, if the car is non-A/C equipped,
> is if it has a fuel return line.  According to the 70 shop manual, all air
> conditioned cars and W-machines had a fuel return line (runs all the way
> back from the fuel pump to the fuel tank parallel to the fuel line.  If the
> car is non-AC and has the return line, there is a good indicator that it is
> a W31.  Let me know how you make out.

This car is a definite 'don't call until the guy is prolly desperate'
situation... He seems to think it's worth $4000, may not take less unless
he REALLY needs the cash. But I did hear there's a warrant out for his
arrest... The makings for a VERY interesting transaction, eh?

> Also, I'm not sure, but I think all of the W-machines were made in Lansing
> ("M" is the 7th character in the VIN)  How about it gang?  Since the
> W-machines were "select" cars, would they all have been made at the source
> of all things wonderful i.e. Lansing?

Ah, yes, The Source! Remember it DID have the M, but also remember that this
car had the trim tag missing along with all the ramair goodies. Curses! :^(

I will keep you updated, tho...

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:50:13 -0300
Subject: No-Vent Dash Pads 

          The other is a bucket seat Post car with no air (I mean no
          air cond., no air vents -ie. The area that the vents are
          supposed to be is solid dash).

          Nick,

          Does this mean that the dash pad doesn't even have the
          molded-in opentings and the manual air vents on either side
          (and the block-off plate above the radio)?  I thought all
          70-72 (and 69, for that matter) A-body dash pads had the
          vent openings - the non-air cars just got manual vents and a
          center blockoff plate.  Both my 69 and my 70 are configured
          that way.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:03:56 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Big Disc ROtors 

>
>Does anybody know what the thickness spec is for 67-70  big car front
>disc rotors? I'm thinking about picking up some extras in the boneyard,
>but don't know how thin they can be and still be legally turned.
>thanks

          Every disc and drum is required to have a min thickness or
          max diameter stamped or cast into it someplace.  GM discs
          usually have this number cast into the part inboard of the
          swept area of the disc (ie, where the hub and disc meet).
          Failing that, look on the wheel mounting face of the disc.
          The number should be preceeded by something like "MIN THK"
          (now there's a revelation...)

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:45:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Question about 425/455 cams

>   I was going to build a 455 for my 67 442.  After spending 1500 on a frame
> I dont have enuff cash to build the 455 this winter.  So now I'm looking at
> tossing a cam in the 425.  Will a 455 cam work in a 425?  If not, can
> anyone point me in the direction of someone who sells cams for 425's?  And
> lastly, can anyone recomend a cam lift and duration?  Heres the vitals:
> 
> 67 442 Convertible
> 425 w/ stock innards
> tri power intake
> 4 speed close ratio manual trans
> 4.11 posi rearend
> manual brakes
> 
> A rough idle is ok and gas milage doesnt matter.  I'm looking to go as fast
> as possible with what I have to work with.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken

This depends upon the lifter angle in your block, whether it is the 
original 45deg./.821" lifter setup, or the later-style 39deg./.921" 
lifter setup. This is not something to guess on, either; you need the cam 
designed for the lobe-angles of your motor, or else it will run like a 
Ch*vy or something... ;)

See the FAQ on this matter.

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:01:03 -0300
Subject: Toro Question 

I'm considering putting the Vista-Cruiser in drydock this upcomming summer
to do some body repair, paint rework, transmission buildup, etc.  I would
love to get a Toronado as a daily driver until I get the VC looking pretty
again.  

I've been tossing the idea around and I was wondering if it is possible to
buy a `66 to`69 in driveable condition for around $1000.  I would want one
that would pass inspection with little or no work.  (I can stand to put
brake shoes on it, I don't want to have to rebuild the front end or buy
windshields.)  I would like to get something that can be roadworthty for a
year before major overhauls and is restoreable. I'd like it to have a solid
transmission(transaxle?) and a rebuildable mill.  I would tolerate minor
body rust.  Nothing terminal.     I'm not looking for show car material.  If
I can make the body straight, paint it, put JC whitney carpet in it and
drive it I'll be happy.  

Can I find a car for that price that isn't a total basket case? I'm not in
the market for a car now,  I just want to know if it's possible to get a car
I can work with.

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 05:21:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question

Greg Pruett wrote:

> I've been tossing the idea around and I was wondering if it is possible to
> buy a `66 to`69 in driveable condition for around $1000. 

Greg,

How about one for free? Contact Dave Voorhis at: dave@armchair.mb.ca

Otherwise, I am just about finished getting my winter 67 Toro road worthy that 
pretty 
much fits the bill! However, I need to get 1700 for it. I just put on all new 
brake 
lines, new flex lines, rebuilt all the wheel cylinders, rebuilt carb, reworked 
the power 
windows, new boots, new heater control valve, comfortron, and much more. Its a 
LOADED 
Deluxe and worth that and much and more! Even has a factory installed block 
heater!!! A 
perfect winter car!!!! Nice gut too!

Rusty but trusty!!!!

I have pictures, I can scan and email to you if you are interested.

Sparky  
- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:48:02 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

At 02:50 AM 10/3/96 -0300, you wrote:

>          Does this mean that the dash pad doesn't even have the
>          molded-in opentings and the manual air vents on either side
>          (and the block-off plate above the radio)?  I thought all
>          70-72 (and 69, for that matter) A-body dash pads had the
>          vent openings - the non-air cars just got manual vents and a
>          center blockoff plate.  Both my 69 and my 70 are configured
>          that way.

Yep, you read it correctly.  The dash is solid with no vent openings
whatsoever. Looks very plain compared to the grilled type that I have on
mine.  In fact, the car doesn't even have the vents in the door jam area.  I
forget the name that GM gave this ventilation system.  On cars with vents,
the air is supposed to travel through the dash vents --> through the package
tray --> into the trunk area --> back over the rear wheel wells towards the
front of the car --> and exit through the door jam vents due to high
pressure air going past the door on the outside.
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:41:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Da Best Engine & Wheel Paint

On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Darren Shroeger wrote:
> Anyone found the perfect engine paint for the 68-69 G-block 400?
> I believe it is the same paint as used with the 65-67 E400's also.
> 
> I've seen the Supercars 'bronze' paint on a few G blocks and it looked
> too light. Also I believe the Brothers was too light- both appeared
> halfway between the correct bronze color and 350 gold.

My friend Don used Bill Hirschs bronze engine paint on his. Looks great 
and not too light. He advertises in Hemmings.

> Also, howbout the gray paint for SSII's? I gave my painter the part #
> from the Year One catalog to cross-reference to a more durable one-step
> acrylic. The original lacquer probably wouldn't hold up well in the
> Michigan weather. Opinions?

Good question, don't have the answer myself but awaiting it from others...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:27:22 -0300
Subject: Member Contact List

The list is (I think) going along well.  The form seems to be working 
correctly, so NOW IS THE TIME FOR EVERYBODY TO FILL IT OUT!!! 
Again, the form is at http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html
and the Contact list is at 
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/links/main.html

I haven't counted, but I think there is about 20 people on it so far.  If 
you sent in your information before yesterday, and don't see yourself on 
the contact list, then your information has seemingly been lost in the 
shuffle and you should fill out the form again!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme ('74 350 4bbl 66,000miles)
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85,000miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl 110,000miles)

------------------------------

From: tonwald@metro2.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:32:20 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads

>          The other is a bucket seat Post car with no air (I mean no
>          air cond., no air vents -ie. The area that the vents are
>          supposed to be is solid dash).
>
>          Nick,
>
>          Does this mean that the dash pad doesn't even have the
>          molded-in opentings and the manual air vents on either side
>          (and the block-off plate above the radio)?  I thought all
>          70-72 (and 69, for that matter) A-body dash pads had the
>          vent openings - the non-air cars just got manual vents and a
>          center blockoff plate.  Both my 69 and my 70 are configured
>          that way.
>
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30


Joe --

Only the post coupe cars (body code 77) had the dash pads with no vents.
Just smooth vinyl where they are supposed to be!  The holiday coupes had
vents.

Tony Waldner
70 W-30  with no vents, no console and column shift!

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:37:57 -0300
Subject: Contact List-- MORE YET!!

Okay, as you read further in one of these digests, you learn.  Well, it 
sounds like I've got a goof to fix (not a bad one though) with the 
"mailto:" links.  I've got this nasty habit of forgetting to close the 
quotes in a link when I'm writing it.  I would appreciate it if a few of 
you that are running N-scape 2.0 or better would proofread things for me 
every once in a while (I'm still running "old standby") When you go to 
"view source" it automatically hightlights my errors.

Next topic, good suggestion Charley, and I've already thought of it, I'll 
add a section to the form for a homepage address.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clay Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

I'll be scanning a coupla pictures of my '84 Cutlass/350 4bbl. and 
putting them on my page soon.  If anybody wonders what it looks like.

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:58:26 -0300
Subject: Windowed/non-windowed/other info

What info can you tell me about my motor?  
It is a '74 350 VIN letter K orig. 4bbl.
from a Delta 88

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:35:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like? 

> >Darren Shroeger wrote:
> >
> >> Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...
> >> Should have a medium compression 455 (what, 9.5:1?) with Ga heads.
> >
> >Well I have a 72 Toro parts car in my yard and it has a J head 455.
> >According to my book it is a 190hp, low compression engine?
> >
> >But lets remember that by 1972 the ratings were net horse power not gross
> as in years prior to 1971

Okay, Chuck, which heads d'you got on yer Toro, Ga or J? The way I remember
it, '72's should have the Ga heads. And I didn't think compression took the
dive till '73...

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:38:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Question

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> I've been tossing the idea around and I was wondering if it is possible 
> to buy a `66 to`69 in driveable condition for around $1000.  

Hmmm...  In general I'd say that's a real maybe.  Though the early Toros 
seem a bit under priced (IMHO) as compared to some of the other models, a 
grand would be pretty cheap.  Not to say impossible.  Why not one of the 
70s?  I be the first to agree that they don't have the same sheet-metal 
appeal but it's much the same car underneath.  I see them in the paper 
here for $800-1000 quite often.

OTOH, Dave Voorhis is giving a 66 away if you want to go get it...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Darren Shroeger <redhead@mailmasher.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:59:33 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads 

>           Nick,
>
>           Does this mean that the dash pad doesn't even have the
>           molded-in opentings and the manual air vents on either side
>           (and the block-off plate above the radio)?  I thought all
>           70-72 (and 69, for that matter) A-body dash pads had the
>           vent openings - the non-air cars just got manual vents and a
>           center blockoff plate.  Both my 69 and my 70 are configured
>           that way.
>
>           Joe Padavano
>           jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>           66 442
>           68 W-30
            ^^^^^^^

Joe,

Noticed you had 68. Does it have the vents you speak of? My non-ac 68 442
does not have ANY of these openings. Heard someone call that a "delete-
delete" car... Don't have anything to compare it with, so son;t know.

- -Darren Shroeger 
 '68 442 / 4-speed
 '80 GP Partsrunner / 350 Oldspowered!
 <redhead@mailmasher.com> *new email address*

------------------------------

From: pattymarshall@dallaschamber.org (Patty Marhsall)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:02:20 -0300
Subject: Dallas/Ft. Worth

Who is from the Dallas/Ft. Worth area?
I see some pretty awesome Cutlass' out
there and wonder if you're on the list.
A real nice yellow one w/ black stripes
flew by me on 360 this morning. 
Incredible rear end.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:06:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Whatsa '72 Toro look like?

Darren Shroeger wrote:
> 
> > While some only like the origanal Toros, these cars are a delight to 
> > drive and still can be purchased for a reasonable sum.

You betcha.  I've been thinking about getting a 70ish one myself for a 
daily driver.  And you're right -- I see them all the time for a few 
hundred bucks.

> ...I ran into someone at the auto parts store th'other day who was mad 
> at his '72 Toro and would be perhaps inclined to sell it on the 
> super-cheap.

Opportunity knocks!

> Would make quite a driver for a snowy Northern Michigan winter!

And the rest of the year

> Shoot, I bet the '72s still do pretty good front-tire burnoffs, too...

Hear Sparky's burnout at the Toro site.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:07:17 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 Performance Potential - Update

I look dat my NHRA rulebook for stock class last night,  I was
mistake about a couple things:

Interior:  cannot be gutted. must have stock seats as shipped from
the factory,  fresh air ducts required.  heater required on 68 and newer.
may have a competition shifter.  carpeting or floor mats required.

Weight:  must be 70 lbs under or 150 lbs over factory shipping weight,
so wieght reduction plans are limited to ps,pb, master cyl may be 
replaced with a new unit (lighter too). the front sway bar can go,
all a/c.  

Chassis:  any rear gear.  shocks and springs maybe replaced, traction
bars permitted,  12" wide treaded tires in back, or 9" slicks.

transmission:  maybe hopped up, including stall converters from what 
I can tell from the rule book.

engine: stock heads intake, cam, block.  I read nothing about high
compression pistons but I imagine over looked it.  headers w/ 3"
collector okay.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:12:06 -0300
Subject: Re: No-Vent Dash Pads

If memory serves, the '68 Cutlasses (the first year of that A-body 
redesign) all had vent windows and the traditional kick panel vents. Then 
in '69 GM introduced dash vents (was it called "Astro Ventilation" in all 
lines?) and did away with the vent windows, but only in certain body 
styles. I'm guessing but I think only the 2-door hardtops and 
convertibles lost their vent windows and got dash vents. 2-door post 
cars, 4-door sedans and (I think) 4-door hardtops kept the vents until 
the body style change in '73.

So a '69 post coupe without air could very well have a '68 style dash pad 
with no vent holes at all I guess. Never seen one, though.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:14:02 -0300
Subject: Kudos for Doug Ahern

I note with interest that our Mr. Ahern earned a mention in this month's 
Car & Driver for his "Virtual Junkyard" web site... now we have to get 
Bryceman's page mentioned there!!

Nice job, Doug!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #319
********************************
 
