To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/16/96 03:15:31 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #302


oldsmobile-digest        Monday, 16 September 1996     Volume 01 : Number 302


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:35:00 -0300
Subject: Belated Introduction

  I guess I've been into Olds since I was 5.  That was when my Dad bought 
the '69 Cutlass Supreme (now you know how old I am).  I fell in love with 
that car, and the rest is history.  The next paragraph is quoted from my 
"car show" message.
MY FATHERS '69:
He bought it new back in '69, and recently had it restored.  It is black 
with red interior, has the original 325hp 350-4bbl engine that he specially 
ordered back in '69.  When I used to drive it years ago, back in high 
school, there wasn't a car in its class there that could touch it.  It also 
has very rare Super Stock 1 wheels, that I have never seen on another Olds 
in all my years of Olds adoring.  Most that you see have beauty (trim) 
rings, but his are all chrome.  It is his pride and joy, and doesn't get out 
enough.  Here is how he bought the car:  In 1969, he was going through a 
magazine like Popular Mechanics or something, and came across a two page 
lay-out for Oldsmobile with picture of a black 1969 Cutlass Supreme with red 
interior.  He walked into a local Olds dealer, handed him the ad, and said 
"This is exactly what I want."  They told him they didn't have one in stock 
and he would have to specially order it.  He said that he thinks that the 
SS1 wheels option back then was an extra 50 bucks ($10 a wheel).   You might 
say that car was what inspired me to catch that Olds fever.  I've had 6 now 
(including my Dad's '69)

THE RESURRECTION OF THE 1969 442:
I owned two 77 Cutlass's, while in college, after my father reclaimed his 
'69 back from me, but the '77's didn't really do anything for me like his 
'69 did.  One day when I was driving home from classes in college, I looked 
over and saw a white '69 442 with a blue vinyl roof in someones backyard 
that had obviously had an engine fire.  I was still driving my dads '69 at 
the time, and being the inquisitive person I was, went up to the guys door 
to inquire about it.  I was interested in it for parts , of course.  To my 
surprise, he said he was going to restore it.  I didn't believe him at 
first, because the car looked pretty bad, and really needed a lot of work. 
 He told me that he was the Service Manager at a local Oldsmobile dealership 
here in St. Louis, and that he had access to just about any parts he needed 
 (this was back in '83.)  I asked him if he would mind if I came by and 
watched him rebuild it, and he agreed.  Bit by bit, month by month I watched 
him tear it down to the frame (which he sandblasted, painted, and even 
pinstriped).  Then slowly rebuilt it back up with all new parts.  He rewired 
the entire dashboard, welded a new firewall on, replaced the windshield, the 
dash, the carpet, and the coolest part was all the new parts that he had 
access to.  He got new fenders, new sports hood, new 442 grills, all new 442 
emblems, and hood chrome trim,  headlight frames and a number of other 
items.  What he couldn't get, he removed from a '69 Cutlass S parts car that 
he got.    Then it was time for the engine.  The 400 that was in there was 
in pretty bad shape, so he decided to go with a 455 out of a '70 Toronado. 
 He pulled the engine, and took it to work, where he boiled it, then began 
his work.  Indeed, he knew what he was doing.  He bored it out (and forgive 
me for not knowing the exact specs), and began assembly with the following 
components:  TRW forged aluminum pistons, TRW Pro-Flow swirl polished 
valves, Isky 3/4 race cam, super lifters, and valve springs, Edelbrock 
torker intake, Holley 780 dual line carb, W-30 exhaust manifolds, N.O.S. 
power shot kit, and ported and polished the heads.  It was completely 
blueprinted using the same 1970 blueprinting specifications that you can 
currently see on Brycemans web pages, and balanced.  Then he completely 
rebuilt the 400 TH tranny and included: heavy duty sprag, TCI 3-grand stall 
speed converter, and manual shift kit.  Just about the time he got the 442 
on the road, his wife was expecting, and he could not afford to keep the 
car.  I was right there with $2500 in hand to "take her off his hands."  It 
was not completed though and needed paint, and quite a few other misc. 
items, but was a steal for that price.  I brought her to completion back in 
'87, with a $2000 paint job.  I liked white, but blue was my color of 
choice.  I had them paint it metallic blue (about the same as IROC blue with 
a slightly larger metal flake in the paint).  The day I came in to the place 
it was painted, and saw it there in the show room, complete with all chrome 
and emblems for the first time, in all its glory, was one of my proudest 
moments.  She was beautiful!  A true sight to behold.  I cruised many a car 
show after that, and made it to Gateway International Speedway twice to get 
her timed.  Her best time in the 1/4 mile was 12:72 @ 108 MPH, but averaged 
an even 13.  That car was my dream come true, but  I sold her back in 1988 
to return to college.  I thought it was the "adult" thing to do.  I have 
missed it ever since.  In fact, enough that my wife bought me my 1969 
Cutlass S convertible last year for my birthday, in an attempt to pacify me. 


THE '69 CONVERTIBLE, AND '68 CUTLASS SUPREME
Coincidentally, we also paid $2500 for the convertible which was in very 
good shape.  The colors are Ivy gold interior, Teal green exterior, and 
white top.  It took me a little while to get warmed up to this one, because 
it wasn't a 442, and didn't nearly have the power.  But, it was a 
convertible, and that was pretty choice.  I really got the Olds fever again 
about 6 months ago when I took on the project of restoring it.  That is how 
the '68 came into the picture.  I blew out the rear end passenger side outer 
bearing while just cruising the car home from a park, and it chewed up the 
race pretty bad.  Bad enough that it is not easily repairable.  The only way 
would be to cut off the end of another rear end, and weld it onto mine.  I 
feel it would be just as easy to find another 12 bolt rear end and swap 'em 
out.  Driving down the road one day I saw a '68 Cutlass Supreme sitting in a 
oil change places parking lot with a for-sale sign in the window.  I checked 
and sure enough, it had the 12 bolt rear end I was looking for.  He 
originally wanted $1500 for it, but had lowered it to $1200.  That was still 
pretty steep for me, who just needed the rear end and maybe a few extra 
parts.  I offered him $800, and we agreed on $850.  After I brought it home, 
I couldn't bring myself to kill it, just for the rear end.  The body is 
pretty clean, and it has some really cool options on it.  Plus it was the 
exact same color interior as my 442, and had the same exact floor shift 
console as the 442.  So, now I have two major projects.  One with the '69, 
which I am already pretty far along on, and then I will do the '68.  The '68 
I plan on building to beat my old 442 in 1/4 mile, but that is a 1997/1998 
project.  We'll see how close I can get.  Money of course will be a major 
factor (Always is).  And I am still searching for a 12-bolt rear end for my 
'69.  I have a couple leads through the Archway Olds club, and other 
sources, but nothing yet.  Anyway, that's my story in a nutshell.  I have 
only been on the Olds list for a couple weeks, and thanks to many of you, 
feel right at home.  I look forward daily to my dose of "Oldsmobile fix."

ps.  Thank you Greg for giving us Olds nuts this wonderful communication 
tool.
And for anyone interested, I have decided (for the moment) to paint the 
convertible almost original gold, with a bit heavier metalflake than 
original.  Thanks for all your responses.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible



 ----------

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 12:15:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Belated Introduction

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:
>=20
>   I guess I've been into Olds since I was 5.  That was when my Dad boug=
ht
> the '69 Cutlass Supreme (now you know how old I am).  I fell in love wi=
th
> that car, and the rest is history. =20
>=20
> Jeff Zeilmann
>=20


Jeff,

Those are wonderful stories.  I'll try to invent a better one & send it=20
along.  Otherwise I may tell the truth (which you won't like hearing=20
either).  By the way, is it possible to have a story every few days on=20
these Oldsmobiles that are on the list?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:24:12 -0300
Subject: Engine Software

Does anyone have any engine software such as Quarter Jr. etc, if so please 
e-mail me privately at urbanch@magi.com

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:29:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Die Cast Models JL 500 

In a message dated 96-09-13 20:12:06 EDT, you write:

<< So JL will make a total of 7 different sets such as 1-6 series and 
 >  the original colors.
 
 So, you mean I have to keep looking???  UUURRGGGHHHH!  I'll be living at Toy
 R Us, Kay Bee and WalMart!  Can these things be order factory direct?
  >>

Nope, just have to keep looking, sorrry.  Another thing is to do is to find
out if any hobby shops in the area became dealers.  If so, they can save
a set.

W Machines

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:33:54 -0300
Subject: Test: is the list down, or am I just down? (don't read) 

Well, if you got this far, I'm posting this because traffic on the list
seems to have come to a standstill.

May just be my server.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:42:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Hard to find... 

Contact Ray Hauser @ 804.498.8136. He has a bunch of 442 parts. All of them
are top quality and he usually gets top $$$ for them. He has everything you
are wanwanting, except the aluminum intake manifold. He probably has that ,
but I doubt that he would want to sell it. It doesn't hurt to ask, though.

Katana72                    It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!     Hastings,
MN 

------------------------------

From: Howard H <howardh@sundial.sundial.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:46:08 -0300
Subject: Intro from new members on the list 

Rob Barry wrote: "Oh, and it _used_ to be customary for a new subscriber to
send an "INTRO-New Member" post, describing the person and the cars that
brought them to this list (past and present). A few people have done it, but
I'd like to
hear from all the new people at least once"......well here goes-)
  My name is Howard Hosenbold and I'm from Orlando, Fl. I've been receiving
the list for approx. two months. I own an '84 Hurst with every option
available. It
has 59,700 miles on it. It's in excellent cond., at least according to all
who admire it. I've owned this car for almost three years now and I'm very
thankful to the original owner who put the first 52,000 miles on it. He
maintained and cared for this vehicle extremely well. I've been babying it
now for three years.
The only modifications are an Accel HO coil and a Sony Hi-Power AM/FM-CD. I
have the original radio at home. The rest is 100% original.
 I'm a member of OCA, Hurst Owners Club of America and a charter member of
Olds club of Florida (the fastest growing chapter in the country). 
I'm in awe of all the knowledge dispersed out on this list to all who need 
info.
Some of you guys have so many posts, I wonder if you have a family or just a
car you live with (in) :). I've absorbed an awful lot of specs, opinions,
facts. net
sites, contradictions, jokes, etc. I thank all of the members of the list,
keep up the good work. Also, many thanks to Greg B. for overseeing this
compilation.


Just another Olds freak out of the closet.
  Howard Hosenbold
  howardh@sundial.net
P.S. IMHO, this list should remain as is. There is too much in common in all
models we can share.

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:50:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Hard to find... 

I'm not sure, but I don't think there is a difference on the 70 front bumper
between the cutlass and the 442. Correct me if I'm wrong, but be nice:)  I do
have a 70 front bumper that I would be willing to part with. It's straight,
minor rust on the inside of the bumper, but could stand to be rechromed. I
would be willing to trade for any 68 parts or any 72 parts applicable to the
cutlass. Of courde, it would be nice if these were parts that I needed.



Katana72              It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile!!!       Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:11:05 -0300
Subject: 64 Dynamic 88 for sale 

I've lost interest in that 64 Dynamic 88 convertable w/ 394 that is for sale
in western Ohio.  $4700...but far from firm.  Reply to me for details if
interested.

- -Aaron  

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 02:11:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Hard to find...

Brad Bowles wrote:
> 
> I need these parts to complete my restoration of my '70 442 W-30.  I
> have been unable to find any of these.  Please help me out with any
> info.  I will pay top dollar!
> Front Bumper
> "F" cylinder heads   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

About a week too late. I had some on a 71 455 block but sold it already:( 
Really didn't know what I had until after it was gone.

Jason Labay

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 02:17:27 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> outside.  It is a secret what
> > > the inside of the barn looks like.
> >
> > Hi Bill ...
> > Is this a reference to environmental/neighbour annoyance laws?  There's not
> > too much of that around here, as far as I know.
> > I'd be curious to find out more ... Thanks
> >
> > Graham Stewart
> 
> Grahan,
> 
> The laws vary from city to city; county to county just as yours probably
> do.  Ours in Decatur state about what most do - no attractive nuisances
> for kids sake, no clutter that attracts pests, & generally nothing that
> disrupts the neighbors.  This includes an abandoned car 
law.                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is how we get most of the good cars towed into our yard. I got my 75 
H/O because it was towed for being abandoned behind a garage. The 74 
Riveria Stage 1 455 I just got was towed for expired plates and 
abandonment. In both cases the owners never called on the cars, 60 days 
went by and the State of Ohio sent us the title. Onlt problem is that 
although these are unwrecked pretty decent cars, they get salvage titles 
due to them coming out of a salvage yard.

Jason Labay

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:30:14 -0300
Subject: RE: 64 Dynamic 88 for sale 

>I've lost interest in that 64 Dynamic 88 convertable w/ 394 that is for sale
>in western Ohio.  $4700...but far from firm.  Reply to me for details if
>interested.

that reminds me....how much is a coupe worth in decent shape? guy wanted 1200
w/ motor and trans, 500 w/o until I proved to him that it wasn't a 455. I don't
know what he will take now.  are 394's all you could get then? I know it's
probably in the FAQ, but if any other engines were available, what's a quick
way to tell them apart?

thanks



Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:57:01 -0300
Subject: Re: VIN# decoding 

At 01:32 AM 9/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I would like to ask if anyone could decode the body plate numbers from my car.

 If this info is available to the rest of us,could you tell us >where to
find it? 

>ST 68-33667 LAN389442
68 is year, first 3 is GM division (Olds, of course!), 36 is Cutlass, and 67 is
convertible. LAN is assembly plant (Lansing), and the rest is sequence #.

>TR 940  S-2   O5C
940 is a trim code, not sure about S-2, 05C is lower/upper colors.

The info for the first line comes from the chassis service manual, for 
the second line I think you need the Fisher Body manual.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:03:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Intro from new members on the list

Howard H wrote:
>=20
>
>   My name is Howard Hosenbold and I'm from Orlando, Fl. I've been recei=
ving
> the list for approx. two months. I own an '84 Hurst with every option
> available. I've absorbed an awful lot of specs, opinions,
> facts. net
> sites, contradictions, jokes, etc. I thank all of the members of the li=
st,
> keep up the good work. Also, many thanks to Greg B. for overseeing this
> compilation.

I hate to agree, but it's true.
>=20
> Just another Olds freak out of the closet.
>   Howard Hosenbold
> =20
> P.S. IMHO, this list should remain as is. There is too much in common i=
n all
> models we can share.

Right!


Howard,

Nice to hear from (see from) you.  Those H/O's are another nice Olds. =20
If I get a chance & win the lottery I'll buy them all.  Then there won't=20
be any reason for you guys & gals on the list except to ask me how good=20
it feels to drive an Oldsmobile & just drool.

Good luck w/your car.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  I've just spent a week on a grand jury.  Want to hear some horror=20
stories/
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:14:09 -0300
Subject: Re: VIN# decoding 

In a message dated 96-09-15 09:30:00 EDT, you write:

> ST 68-33667 LAN389442
>  TR 940  S-2   O5C
>   With an "M" in the VIN serial number.
>  

ST 68-33667 - 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S V8 convertible
LAN389442 - is the body unit number for the Lansing plant
TR940 - trim code for Black (don't know whether bench or buckets)
S-2 - Jade Gold w/Black convertible top
05C - build date - third week (C) of May (05)

I get my info from the Showroom Color & Fabric Selections Books and the
Product Selling Features Books.  I have an almost complete set of these from
1951 thru 1993.  Things like the body unit number and build date are just
tricks of the trade.  Some of these showroom books can be expensive, so not
everyone is going to have access to them.  I wouldn't loan mine out if my
life depended on it.  I don't mind giving the info I can get from these if
others don't mind reading it.  I can be emailed privately for information if
someone would rather not post to the whole list.

PS. Don't know what color your convert is now, but the above combination
sounds kind of depressing to me.  Jade Gold is a dark green with a touch of
gold to it, not one of my favorite colors.  And then to have all that black
trim.  Doesn't sound like pretty combination for a convertible.  I always
think they look better in light or bright colors unless the interior or top
are light or bright colored.

Paul
The book man 

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:14:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 64 Dynamic 88 for sale 

In a message dated 96-09-15 22:38:12 EDT, you write:

>  until I proved to him that it wasn't a 455. I don't
>  know what he will take now.  are 394's all you could get then? I know it's
>  probably in the FAQ, but if any other engines were available, what's a
quick
>  way to tell them apart?

On the Dynamic 88 a 394 was all that was available.  Being a dynamic, the
motor is probably of the low compression flavor w/ a 2bbl carb.  If it is,
the motor will be painted green.  The high compression, 4bbl 394 was standard
in the Ninety Eight and Super 88 and optional on the Dynamic.  That motor
would be red and I think have chrome valve covers and a silver painted air
cleaner.  The Starfire motor was also high compression and a 4bbl.  Dual
exhausts were standard with this motor.  It would also be painted red and
have chrome valve covers, but would have a chrome air cleaner.  It was
standard on the Starfire & Ninety Eight Custom Sport Coupe (the one with the
console & buckets), and Jetstar I, and was an option on all other Ninety
Eights and Super 88 models only.

Now, if this were a Jetstar 88 instead of a Dynamic it would have the gold
330 w/a 2bbl, with a 4bbl as an option.  Jetstar 88s had Chevrolet suspension
and brake equipment, made possible by their lighter weight.  They were still
considered a full size Olds, but Jetstars were the No-Frills models

Paul

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:14:37 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

In both cases the owners never called on the cars, 60 days
> went by and the State of Ohio sent us the title. Onlt problem is that
> although these are unwrecked pretty decent cars, they get salvage title=
s
> due to them coming out of a salvage yard.
>=20
> Jason Labay


Jason,

Abandoned cards are done that way here also.  For some reason people=20
won't claim a car & off it goes to the highest bidder or the salvage=20
yard. There is no problem using a car from a salvage yard here - just=20
get a bill of sale & go get a plate.  Are salvage titles a problem? =20
What is wrong w/one?

In AL we have no titles for cars 1974 & older.  A bill of sale;=20
handwritten, transfers anything.  It doesn't even have to have a plate.=20
 I have helped a friend in TN get a title for his 1939 Chevy that was=20
impossible to title in that state.  He just took the paperwork that I=20
was able to get (tag receipt) & trade it for a title in his state.

I understand that GA is that way for any car 25 years & older.  No title=20
is required for those - just exchange a scribbled bill of sale.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:00:04 -0300
Subject: Another New Member Intro. (long) 

Hi folks,
              I've been receiving the list since July 24.  A few Olds list
members have been introducing themselves lately, so here's mine.
             I've been an Oldsmobile fan for most of my life.  The first
Olds my mother had was a 1968 or '69 4-door Cutlass.  It was brown with tan
vinyl interior, and a tan vinyl top.  (No AC!)  I vaguely remember that one.
Then, when my brother graduated high school in 1972, he received a '73
Cutlass Supreme as a graduation present.  I was 6 years old at the time, and
I remember thinking that this was the best looking, smoothest riding car I
had ever been around.  It was white with maroon (vinyl) interior, and it had
a maroon vinyl 1/4 top over the rear of the white hard top.  (Bucket seats,
console shifter, 350 engine.)  That car was the starting point for my future
attraction to Oldsmobiles.
              Somewhere in that time frame, my mother had a '73 or '74 Delta
88, but we didn't keep it long due to mechanical problems.  (Must have been
assembled on a Monday or a Friday...)  The next sweet ride Mom had was a '76
Cutlass Supreme, white with maroon cloth interior.  (Anybody detect a maroon
& white theme?  Must be because Mississippi State University is only 23
miles away...)  There was a discussion on the list a while back about the
looks of the '76's, and I loved this one, also.  (Wish we still had it.  It
was traded in '79 for a Cadillac Coupe de Ville, and THAT dinosaur was just
traded 4 months ago.)  
                My first car was a 1981 Dodge Aries K, and the "K"
definately stood for Krap!  I only put 13,500 miles on it in 18 months, and
when the transmission seized up, it was time to move up to an Olds.  My
first one was a 1982 4-door Cutlass Supreme, light gray with (guess what?)
maroon cloth interior.  I drove that car for three years of high school and
all four years of college.  I loved that car, but I DIDN'T love the 231 V-6
Buick engine.  That thing wasn't strong enough to get out of its own way,
and pulling into heavy traffic was an adventure.  After 7 years and repeated
carb problems, I sold it to my uncle, who promptly dropped a small-block 350
in it.  (He's still got that car.)  I was fed up with V-6's, so I ordered a
1989 GMC stepside with a 350. (Beaucoup motor under the right foot, now!)
During the years I had been driving the '82 Cutlass, I had been drooling
over the late-model 442's, especially the '87.  Being in college at the
time, no way could I entertain the idea of buying one.  Then, in June of
'93, I found an '87 442 with only 28,200 original miles.  (For anyone
interested in further info. on this car, see the owner's registry on
Bryceman's web site.)  THIS was my dream car.  Nowadays, when I'm not
working weekends, I'm in the road heading to the next car show I can find.
This car rides so sweet.  Nothing can compare to that good, heavy Olds feel.  
               Finally, (on the risk of posting a dreaded "Me, too!") I'd
like to thank Greg B. for his efforts in maintaining this list.  I've
enjoyed the technical tips, the "movie sighting" discussions, and especially
the one-liners between Andrew Green, Bill Culp, and the '66 Toro and Mike.
Sorry this is so long, but Rob Barry said he wanted some introductions, and
he got 'em.....Take care, all. 

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442                          

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:21:49 -0300
Subject: 66 98 Wiring Fun 

Just spent 20 hours or so rewiring my 66 98. I'm about halfway + and learned
some new things. 

Story goes that Thu. p.m. with your comments in mind, I was all set to go 
after my cycling on-off circuit breaker when I run the hi beams. Rewired
the switch with proper solder and heat shrink tubing, didn't help. Lowered
the switch to get a better look at things.

ZZZt, pop, click, smoke, more smoke. Oh sh*t, something grounded on the frame!
Ran for a half inch wrench and yanked the battery lead. At least the smoke
stopped. So now I had a nicely fried light switch. Choice time: splice new
switch in and potentially buy more problems or do it the hard way: new harness.

So I went the hard way. Over the years the current harness has had many splices
and though most of them were clean, they couldn't have helped the situation. 
Examples include the ign. switch, int/ext alternator conversion, HEI 
conversion,
etc., etc.

What I learned: 
1) 65 and 66 wiring harnesses are similar, but 66 uses different door switches 
and courtesy light connectors. You can get around the connectors, but there's
no swapping the door switches.

2) Extra harnesses are great for color coded wire when tapping into the one
you're going to use. For example I have a Starfire tach which needs to be lit
by the interior lamp harness, by grabbing a length of wire and GM proper 
connectors, I made a real clean link between it and the rest of the lamp 
harness. The good part is when I go back into it 8 years from now, I'll be
able to see what I did. (I *will* have forgotten.)

3) Have lots and lots of time. Patience for this work is a by word. I've blown 
the entire weekend, happily uninterrupted. 

4) Solder everything, but always remember to slide the shrink wrap on first. 
Have many colors and sizes of shrink tubing.  Be extra careful and slow on
heavy duty circuits. 


Question:
1) I've removed the resistance wire to the ignition in favor of a 10 guage 
wire to the HEI and electric choke. I know choke and HEI on same wire is bad,
but is it o.k. to remove the resistance wire since HEI is a fulltime 12 volt
system? I've read this is o.k. and acted on it. 

2) Any other suggestions from ye who know more than me?

Much work as it is, this sure is a fun car! Ain't never selling. Can't wait
to try out the "new" harness. Especially now that the distributor is getting
12 volts instead of resistance wire who knows how much.

More later, hope this wasn't boring.
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:25:05 -0300
Subject: Introduction 

  

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:38:40 -0300
Subject: Just test, don't read, delete



------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:55:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease?

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Keep that thing out of the painted surfaces.
It does not hurt your paint but it makes the
repainting a very nasty job.

Because of the cold climate here in Finland some
people use silicone on their weatherstripping to
keep them smooth. When the car is repainted, the
silicone is almost impossible to get off the
painted surface. If some is left, the paint will
"go around" the places where there still exists,
no matter how little, silicone.
 
Obviously this grease contains large amounts of
this stuff.
 
Because of the thermal stability and water isolating
properties of silicone, it is ideal in keeping your
ignition system operative even in humid conditions.
 
BUT, keep it out of paint.
 
 Esko the echo Ilola.
 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
> * Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
> **********************************************
> 

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:58:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease?

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Keep that thing out of the painted surfaces.
I tdoes not hurt your paint but it makes the
repainting a very nasty job.

Because of the cold climate here in Finland some
people use silicone on their weatherstripping to
keep them smooth. When the car is repainted, the
silicone is almost impossible to get off the
painted surface. If some is left, the paint will
"go around" the places where there still exists,
no matter how little, silicone.

Obviously this grease contains large amounts of
this stuff.

Because of the thermal stability and water isolating
properties of silicone, it is ideal in keeping your
ignition system operative even in humid conditions.

BUT, keep it out of paint.

Esko the echo Ilola.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:01:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Wiper problems

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

=2E......................................................................=
=2E

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

=2E......................................................................=
=2E

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> =

> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
> -- =

> MZ=90
> =


Can you see that MZ... stuff above. Normal EXE-cutable
files in MsDos have this as a prefix. Where did it come from?

Hope our server in Finland hasn't got common flu.

" I just noticed that the human brain
  functions like a computer.
  If this is true,
  then there is no really stupid people
  just people running DOS. "

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=3Desko S=3Dilola O=3Dtele A=3Dmailnet C=3Dfi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:01:33 -0300
Subject: time delay

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

.......................................................................

TO: dpauliso@metrolink.net

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> 
> Got that backwards, chap...When it's 12 a.m. here (Florida), it's 7 a.m.
> there in Finland.
> 
To make it more complicated. When it is 13:00 here in finland, the time
in Pittsburgh is 06:00 in the morning. I always mix up the AM and PM
in the 12-hour clock.

I know it is like this because I have a friend (a finnish one) who
lives in Pittsburgh. Have called him several times 04:00 in the morning
(Pittsburgh time) after not thinking the time difference.

Luckily he is a GOOD friend of mine and does not get mad about this.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:26:11 -0300
Subject: Re: WANTED! - Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 - Want it. YES!

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
A BIG THANK YOU Again.

$12 is not much for this kind of a part.

I've shown some of the discussion for my friends (C**vy owners mainly) and
they have been absolutely amazed of the quality of this list.

Sorry about the delay with my message. I have had a nice weekend with lots of
sunshine which is not so usual at this time of the year.

We have some 30000 lakes (thirty thousand) here in Finland and it's fun
to go fishing sometimes. Hope my silence didn't make you bored? The fish
didn't like it either :).

I will send the f*nds in a letter to someone who is willing to post this
part to me. But who?

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:26:50 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

.......................................................................

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Mike wrote:
> Perhaps it's time we talked about that subject line stuff again.  
> You know, that PARTS, 442, FOR SALE, etc. thing.  
> 
> Opinions?
> 

At the time I am able to read almost all the mail in this list. But if it
grows significantly, I'm afraid that I'm reaching the point when it's no
more fun to read them all.

And another thing. When I see an empty subject line, be sure I trash it
without reading it first. This maybe is a primitive version of the
classification system You are talking about.

To make this work properly, one should be able to:
1) Limit the incoming post by subject
2) Have an easy-to-use interface to manage this limiting
3) Be able to post message to one or more subject croups

The first task is easy because it is the server, who decides whether to send
a mail to someone or not. For example, the server could be scanning the
subject line for keywords like "FOR SALE" or "WANTED" or "98".....
no proble doing that. Hope the server can do this kind of job. Ofcourse,
there must be knowledge about the describers and their needs.

The second one is an another easy one. A html-page would do fine.

The third is the hardest part because the subject line is hand-written.
One solution is to use again a html-page for sending these messages. This
could force a prefix on the subject line.

Using html-pages have their obvious advantages but they are not usable without
a web browser.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:26:27 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti

.......................................................................

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Mike wrote:
> Perhaps it's time we talked about that subject line stuff again.  
> You know, that PARTS, 442, FOR SALE, etc. thing.  
> 
> Opinions?
> 

At the time I am able to read almost all the mail in this list. But if it
grows significantly, I'm afraid that I'm reaching the point when it's no
more fun to read them all.

And another thing. When I see an empty subject line, be sure I trash it
without reading it first. This maybe is a primitive version of the
classification system You are talking about.

To make this work properly, one should be able to:
1) Limit the incoming post by subject
2) Have an easy-to-use interface to manage this limiting
3) Be able to post message to one or more subject croups

The first task is easy because it is the server, who decides whether to send
a mail to someone or not. For example, the server could be scanning the
subject line for keywords like "FOR SALE" or "WANTED" or "98".....
no proble doing that. Hope the server can do this kind of job. Ofcourse,
there must be knowledge about the describers and their needs.

The second one is an another easy one. A html-page would do fine.

The third is the hardest part because the subject line is hand-written.
One solution is to use again a html-page for sending these messages. This
could force a prefix on the subject line.

Using html-pages have their obvious advantages but they are not usable without
a web browser.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:27:28 -0300
Subject: Re: To the older members of the Olds list

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Mike wrote:
> Perhaps it's time we talked about that subject line stuff again.  
> You know, that PARTS, 442, FOR SALE, etc. thing.  
> 
> Opinions?
> 

At the time I am able to read almost all the mail in this list. But if it
grows significantly, I'm afraid that I'm reaching the point when it's no
more fun to read them all.

And another thing. When I see an empty subject line, be sure I trash it
without reading it first. This maybe is a primitive version of the
classification system You are talking about.

To make this work properly, one should be able to:
1) Limit the incoming post by subject
2) Have an easy-to-use interface to manage this limiting
3) Be able to post message to one or more subject croups

The first task is easy because it is the server, who decides whether to send
a mail to someone or not. For example, the server could be scanning the
subject line for keywords like "FOR SALE" or "WANTED" or "98".....
no proble doing that. Hope the server can do this kind of job. Ofcourse,
there must be knowledge about the describers and their needs.

The second one is an another easy one. A html-page would do fine.

The third is the hardest part because the subject line is hand-written.
One solution is to use again a html-page for sending these messages. This
could force a prefix on the subject line.

Using html-pages have their obvious advantages but they are not usable without
a web browser.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:29:10 -0300
Subject: Keep the list whole

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
It makes sense to have a method to have all these guys together.

To split this list is not one of those methods.

Subject classifying would be a solution in a long term because:
1) Everyone could choose the areas of knowledge that suits best
2) Access to the list as a whole would still be available

Think about my ignition switch. How many of the guys, who took part
in this switch-hunting actually owned a 98? (Still another THANK YOU)

I'm afraid that this kind of co-operating will dissappear if this list
is splitted too deep.

Today I send just one message to access the whole list. The splitted
version would require more than one to make the same access. If You
ask AOL, they have a certain opinion how this should be done.

And one more thing:
If the list is split, would this put down my mail count? No, because
I would describe them all just to be sure! As a result I would get
many message duplicates just because the sender wants to be sure too.

The subject-limiting function in the server has many advantages
in comparison with the list-splitting. It can and will limit your
mail-count. Think about the next example:

Imagine there would be four groups in the list:
A - Sell or buy an Oldsmobile
B - Techical help
C - Parts requests
D - Chat (the most important of them all)

Now suppose I've described them all except the A because I don't have the $$$.
Mr. G sends a message targeting the whole list. If the server program would
be constructed by an Idiot, I would get three copies of this message.

But since the program is a good one, it sees that I only need one copy of
this message and sends only one.

In case the list would have been divided into four lists, then Mr. G would
have to send four messages to achieve the same coverage and I would get
three copies of the message whether or not the server programmer was an
idiot.

Think about that and keep the list whale :-).

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:33:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Silicone Grease?

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
An ordinary ethanol can be used to remove silicone from metal.

If the metal has grooves like it tends to have after sanding, you have to use
more alcohol.

The Four Roses wont do this job but Ninety Eight spirits will do fine.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:33:35 -0300
Subject: Keep the list whole

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
It makes sense to have a method to have all these guys together.

To split this list is not one of those methods.

Subject classifying would be a solution in a long term because:
1) Everyone could choose the areas of knowledge that suits best
2) Access to the list as a whole would still be available

Think about my ignition switch. How many of the guys, who took part
in this switch-hunting actually owned a 98? (Still another THANK YOU)

I'm afraid that this kind of co-operating will dissappear if this list
is splitted too deep.

Today I send just one message to access the whole list. The splitted
version would require more than one to make the same access. If You
ask AOL, they have a certain opinion how this should be done.

And one more thing:
If the list is split, would this put down my mail count? No, because
I would describe them all just to be sure! As a result I would get
many message duplicates just because the sender wants to be sure too.

The subject-limiting function in the server has many advantages
in comparison with the list-splitting. It can and will limit your
mail-count. Think about the next example:

Imagine there would be four groups in the list:
A - Sell or buy an Oldsmobile
B - Techical help
C - Parts requests
D - Chat (the most important of them all)

Now suppose I've described them all except the A because I don't have the $$$.
Mr. G sends a message targeting the whole list. If the server program would
be constructed by an Idiot, I would get three copies of this message.

But since the program is a good one, it sees that I only need one copy of
this message and sends only one.

In case the list would have been divided into four lists, then Mr. G would
have to send four messages to achieve the same coverage and I would get
three copies of the message whether or not the server programmer was an
idiot.

Think about that and keep the list whale :-).

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:33:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Hi beam fix?

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
As You remember, I did this same job on my 98 (1964).

The halogen lamps draw a spike of current when they lit. After they have
the full brightness, they don't draw significantly more current than their
non-halogen counterparts. The final current ofcourse depends on the wattage
of Your headlamps.

I have installed two relays in my 98. One for high and one for low beam.
I placed them on the plate behind the battery (on the engine side).

There are some tips for Your installation:

Use relay sockets. The resulting installation is a lot more eye-pleasing and
makes it a lot more serviceable.

Colors for Your beams are (if they didn't change them):
GREEN for high beam
BROWN for low beam

I cut the original lines near the battery. The I drawed a 'fatty' wire from
the horn-relay terminal (it is the one with a big nut where the battery
wire terminates).

Now I had three wire ends:
RED  The fatty wire coming from the horn-relay terminal and the original
light supply wires.

The relays I used had five terminals.
1       - Control ground (connect to ground)
2       - Control live   (connect to original lamp feed wire green or brown)
3       - Input          (connect to the fatty cable from the horn-relay)
4 and 5 - Two output terminals. (connect to the lamps)

I replaced the lamp wires with a thicker cable (maintained the colours) and
disposed the original lamp sockets which were in horrible condition. 
Fortunately
these sockets are widely available. Choose the best quality.

When making the connectors (the relay sockets) use crimpable connectors and
solder the connections after crimping. The shrinking sleeve is a good idea.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:33:07 -0300
Subject: RE: 66 98 Wiring Fun

TO: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca

.......................................................................

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Welcome to the hare-wire-crishna-club :-).

The next thing you need is a good sleeving for your harness.

I used the black nylon-spiral. It is easy to apply and it looks nice.

Don't use any kind of tape with glue on. These will become slimy.

Oldsmobile used originally one-inch wide quite thick plastic band with
no glue. The harness was just wrapped into it. I think that this
method may be too difficult. (You have to learn it first).

Did you put some extra wires in your harness for future expansions?

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:55:04 -0300
Subject: Echoing. NOT AGAIN......

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Sorry.
There is something very wrong with my mail server.

Every time I try to reply a message, it first mysteriously disappears
(get no response from the list server) and then after some DAYS the
message appears with several copies.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:56:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Belated Introduction

<<Otherwise I may tell the truth
<<(which you won't like hearing either).

>>Wrong!

<<By the way, is it possible to have a story every few days
<< on these Oldsmobiles that are on the list?
<<Bill Culp
_________________
Thanks Bill,

I would love to hear the stories of more members (including yours) of how 
Olds fever was contracted.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:44:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Fernando and other Canadian members of the list, here in Canada there is
> an insurance plan called the Silver Wheel Plan that works much like the
> Taylor and Hagerty policies. Restrictions on driving, but my broker told
> me that he would not contest a claim as long as the car wasn't being used
> for regular transportation. The wording of the policy is such that there
> is considerable room to maneuver as to the nature of the car's usage. I
> quite like it. I've had it on my Skylark ever since I got it.
> Ridiculously cheap too, although you do need to have an appraisal done
> first.
> 
> Representation varies by province, but in Ontario call Lant & Co.
> Insurance, in Don Mills. 800-461-4099.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Greg,
	I'm one step ahead of you. I've already called them and spoke to the 
broker that carries 
the Silver Wheel plan. The impression I got was that I was not allowed to 
drive the vehicle other 
than for parades car shows and the like. It was made very clear to me. I know 
the premium is 
cheap, I agree but I think it's still too expensive if I can't drive the car! 
I specifically asked 
if I could enjoy the car on weekends now and then, he said no, only for 
specific functions. I saw 
no leway at all. Second, it's not the broke that you deal with if a claim is 
made it's the 
insurance companies underwriters. If you have an accident, and I hope you 
don't, your broker is 
out of the picture. If the company asks what function you were driving 
from/to/in and you say no 
function just a pleasure ride, I think you have just written yourself off.  
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:51:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> My company allows all the use that I need to do.  The requirements are
> owning a regular use car, keeping the insured car in a locked garage,
> keeping up w/records so as to verify any updates or improvements to it,
> & having a good driving record.  My insurance covers liability &
> comprehensive for about what Craig is quoting.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama


I think the problem with our insurance industry is that these guys get way too 
greedy and when that 
happens our provincial government (Ontario) steps in and screws it up even 
more. That's way I see it.

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:00:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine weight

I'm not sure why anyone would want to even consider pulling the engine using 
the intake bolts, 
especially the carb bolts. I think that would put a tremendous amount of 
pressure on those threads. 
Aluminum ones at that, I would not even talk about it. I would rather have the 
weight of the engine 
on the bolts that I', using, grade 8 and no less. Use the threads that are 
located on the fron side 
of the heads close to the engine block, that way the bolt get all the weight 
and not the threads. 
This location also gives you a slight angle when lifting in/out of the engine 
bay. Use the same holes 
located on the back of the engine. The chain should be a triangle shape when 
it's all hooked up 
with the 90 degree right angle at the front of the engine.

What do you think?
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 04:54:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Another New Member Intro. (long)

Doug Newman wrote:
>=20
> Hi folks,
>               I've been receiving the list since July 24.  A few Olds l=
ist
> members have been introducing themselves lately, so here's mine.
>           =20

> During the years I had been driving the '82 Cutlass, I had been droolin=
g
> over the late-model 442's, especially the '87.  Being in college at the
> time, no way could I entertain the idea of buying one.  Then, in June o=
f
> '93, I found an '87 442 with only 28,200 original miles.  (For anyone
> interested in further info. on this car, see the owner's registry on
> Bryceman's web site.)  THIS was my dream car.  Nowadays, when I'm not
> working weekends, I'm in the road heading to the next car show I can fi=
nd.
> This car rides so sweet.  Nothing can compare to that good, heavy Olds =
feel.

>=20
> Doug Newman
> Columbus, MS
> 1987 442

Doug,

Mississippi isn't far away from me - only 3 or 4 states.  I don't get=20
down to Columbus much, but there was a very nice car show in Belmont a=20
couple of weeks ago that is fun & I have heard the one in Jackson is=20
nice.

Those '87 442's are so 'just right'.  They sit just a little tall as if=20
ready to pounce on something (Chevy?).  That exhaust rumble just spells=20
understated power.  The chrome wheels & golden 442 decals let everyone=20
who takes a look that a 2nd one is definately in order.

There was once a girl in my high school class who had one in gray w/a=20
gray interior.  She was the talk of the class over that car.  That car=20
just oozed good taste, distinction, & enough power to be dangerous.  i'm=20
still talking about the car - the girl was nice too!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama =20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:05:25 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Fun

Chris Fair wrote:
>=20
> Just spent 20 hours or so rewiring my 66 98. I'm about halfway + and le=
arned
> some new things.
>=20
>
> More later, hope this wasn't boring.
> cf

Chris,

Does that mean that you still suspect the dimmer switch as the original=20
culprit or this wire on the frame?  Of course, I am thinking of the time=20
when this happens to me.

Everything you are doing sounds like the excellent advice that I heard=20
over this thread the last couple of weeks.  Nice work.  This kind of=20
thing makes a car that will be dependabale & satisfying over the long=20
haul.  I hate having to explain why something on my cars isn't first=20
rate when I do it.  I get into the 'might as wells' very easily that way=20
though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.:  Nothing boring here.
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:23:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutting down on list traffic

I do not agree with spliting the list. I joined an OLDS list not a 
Cultlass/442/Toro/98/88... LIST. 

And I disagree with using and identifier for the post as more than 80-90% of 
the post can apply to all 
cars. If the traffic is too much then switch to the digest. If the digest is 
too large too bad. We can't 
condem the success of this list, we have to promote it, remember!
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:35:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

> >
> > Fernando and other Canadian members of the list, here in Canada there is
> > an insurance plan called the Silver Wheel Plan that works much like the
> > Taylor and Hagerty policies. Restrictions on driving, but my broker told
> > me that he would not contest a claim as long as the car wasn't being used
> > for regular transportation. 
> > Greg Beaulieu       
> 
> Greg,
>         I'm one step ahead of you. I've already called them and spoke to the 
broker that carries
> the Silver Wheel plan. The impression I got was that I was not allowed to 
drive the vehicle other
> than for parades car shows and the like. It was made very clear to me. 

 If the company asks what function you were driving from/to/in and you 
say no
> function just a pleasure ride, I think you have just written yourself off.
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto

Fernando,

Insurance like that is worthless to me.  I am not just a collector, I am 
a lover of cars.  One drives cars; one looks at flower pots.  I have a 
picture album w/thousands of auto pictures in it.  It isn't going to be 
in an accident because I always keep it safe inside.  My car is driven & 
the combined laws of physics & Murphy are a deadly combination.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:57:02 -0300
Subject: Introduction

My name is Dave Wyatt, I live in Dana, Indiana with my 70 4-4-2. Oh yeah, a 
wife and
two sons also. I have had my Olds since October 1973. It has transported my 
wife
and myself on our honeymoon, hauled the family many miles, made a few passes 
down
the dragstrip, and just been an all around great car. I taught my wife how to 
drive
a manual transmission in it and soon will be teaching my oldest son the same 
when he
starts driving next year. He will get the Neon when he drives as the good car 
(Olds)
will be for training only. The Olds was running a replacement engine when I 
bought it
since the second owner was not kind to it. It now has a 70 455 with W-30 cam, 
Holley
Street Dominator intake, headers, and a Quadrajet. It also has the close ratio 
Muncie 
and a 3.42 posi. The car is Sebring Yellow with a black interior. It still has 
the 
original paint and is in need of some metal work and paint. I hope to get some 
mechanical work squared away and make it to Lansing next year. I am starting 
to round 
up pieces for the body work but it will be a while before it gets done. The 
original 
owner lives in nearby Terre Haute IN and I had the privilege of talking to him 
recently. Why I waited all these years, I don't know. 

Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:57:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine weight

Fernando Proietto wrote:
>=20
> I'm not sure why anyone would want to even consider pulling the engine =
using the intake bolts,
> especially the carb bolts. I think that would put a tremendous amount o=
f pressure on those threads.
> Aluminum ones at that, I would not even talk about it. I would rather h=
ave the weight of the engine
> on the bolts that I', using, grade 8 and no less. Use the threads that =
are located on the fron side
> of the heads close to the engine block, that way the bolt get all the w=
eight and not the threads.
> This location also gives you a slight angle when lifting in/out of the =
engine bay. Use the same holes
> located on the back of the engine. The chain should be a triangle shape=
 when it's all hooked up
> with the 90 degree right angle at the front of the engine.
>=20
> What do you think?
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto


Fernando,

Olds manuals (& others) show a plate bolted to the carb opening in the=20
manifold w/a heavy ring welded on top for hooking a chain.  I have=20
always wondered about these things, but never used one. =20

I don't believe that I could bring myself to use one on an aluminum=20
intake.  I'm like another list member who has repaired bolt holes in=20
aluminum from minor carelessness.  I don't want to risk my life & limb,=20
the manifold, the engine, or the car like this.  I have a set of grade 8=20
bolts & a heavy chain for this.  The bolts are set deep into the heads=20
or preferably block; spread as far apart as possible too.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama=20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:03:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Headlight anomole... 

When I switch to high beams, both the lights on the driver's side go 
out, and both the lights on the passenger
side come on...

          Blaine, I puzzled over this on my own car for a while until 
          I realized that the low beams actually have two filaments, 
          one for low beam and one for high beam.  I suspect that the 
          high beam filament in your low beam bulb has coincidentally 
          burned out at the same time as the high beam bulb on that 
          side.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:22:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Registry

Bill Culp wrote:
> 
> The Toro list has an information list on each member.  This helps 
> figure out who is who, where the cars are, where the expertise is, 7 
> makes a wonderful directory.  Can we start one here?

I wrote the stuff to handle the registry for the Toro list and the offer 
remains open to do the same for the Olds list.  If anybody wants to 
donate server space for it, let me know.  

BTW, the original registry was a form sent with the new subscriber 
"greeting" message then returned to me for processing.  I've got plans 
for a GCI script to allow members to fill out the form directly on a web 
page.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:40:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> I think the problem with our insurance industry is that these guys get 
> way too greedy and when that happens our provincial government 
> (Ontario) steps in and screws it up even more. 

Greedy insurance companies?  Government screwing things up?  Geez, man, 
where do you get these ideas?   ;)

I love the "high risk pool".  Many places have a pool of insurance 
companies who insure drivers who can't get regular insurance.  Sure, some 
are DUI's and so on but it seems that just about any reason at all is 
enough to get you in the pool -- like not having insurance!  So the same 
companies that refused to insure will now insure at 2 or 3 times the 
regular rate.  That's fair...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:43:58 -0300
Subject: '66 Tri-Power Question ---RESPONSE! 

Joe,
  Yes, the manifold is off of the engine.  I paid $500 for the manifold, 2 
center carbs, and one end carb.  Now I've gotta find another end carb and 
have them all restored and replated (about another $250 for all three).  I 
just recently had the manifold boiled out and all cleaned up.  It looks like 
brand spankin' new now.  It's currently in a plastic garbage bag about 5 feet 
away from me on the floor, all sprayed down with WD-40, sealed up of course.  
The cleaning process didn't loosen up the "Caps" (as you call them) at all.  
The caps on mine are square and only have 2 bolts in them.  Are these the 
correct caps???  I figured there were probably 4 bolt holes under the caps, 
but the caps on there now can only be positioned to where you can secure them 
down with 2 bolts, not 4.  Is this not original??  Also, when I look up into 
the center port hole on eith side of the manifold (underside), it's blocked 
off with a metal panel.  What does this mean/what position is the mechanism 
under the caps in??  I'll try the vice grip deal.  Should I turn them one way 
as opposed to another (clockwise/counterclockwise -- as looking down on to 
the top of the manifold)??  If I try to heat them, I'll probably use a butane 
torch, so as to not get them TOO hot (besides, that's all I've got!)  How 
long do you think I should heat the caps for, and where should I heat them 
(right around the edges of the caps)????  I know it's a pain to answer, but 
I'd really appreciate as much information as you could give me about this,  
as well as if you know where I can find an end carborater in good to 
restorable condition.  I don't have a fax, but if you could spend the money 
on a stamp to help me out with some zerox'ed pictures, explainations, or 
diagrams, it would be very helpful.  I was going to sell this, but I've 
decided to keep and restore it.  Thank You!!

My Address:      Craig Dobbins
                 171 Ontario St, Apartment #1
                 Lockport, N.Y.
                 14094

                                                 Thank You!!!!
                                                  Craig Dobbins
>Date:	Mon, 16 Sep 96 09:36:54 est
>From:	JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
>To:	kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
>Subject:	Re[2]: '66 Tri-Power Question
>
>          Craig,
>          
>          Sorry for the confusion.  My description is obvious to me, 
>          having actually seen the hardware, so I apologize if the 
>          words were lacking.
>          
>          The "plate" is actually the visible part of a machined metal 
>          piece which is designed to enable you to block the exhaust 
>          heat crossover which goes under the carb.  The "cap" I refer 
>          to is what you call the "plate" with the four bolts.  This 
>          is the piece you can see on either side of the center carb 
>          (two total), bolted into the heat crossover.  Each of these 
>          "caps" is actually a "T" shaped part; the visible part of 
>          the cap (the part the bolts go into) is the crossbar of the 
>          "T".  There is also a piece of metal (call this the "plate", 
>          to differentiate from the cap) sticking down into the heat 
>          crossover on the underside of the "T".
>          
>                 ___ "Cap" (Visible Surface)__
>                /                              \
>          _____/______________          ________\___________
>          |__________________|          |__________________|
>             |____________|                |____________|
>                  | |      \              /|            |    
>                  | |       \__Circular__/ |            |
>                  | |            Boss      |            |
>                  | |                      |            |
>                  | |                      |            |
>                  | |\                    /|            |
>                  |_| \_Plate to Block___/ |____________|
>                        Heat Crossover
>                Side View                    Front View
>          
>          The circular boss is a machined feature on the underside of 
>          the "T" which serves as the seal to the intake manifold 
>          (actually to the exhaust crossover) when the cap is bolted 
>          in place.
>          
>          Were you able to remove the part, you would see that it is 
>          able to be installed in one of two ways; either with the 
>          plate normal to the flow, blocking the heat crossover, or 
>          with it parallel to the flow, allowing exhaust gas to pass 
>          under the center carb.  Note that if the manifold is off the 
>          motor, you should be able to look in the exhaust crossover 
>          and see the plate sticking down inside of it.  It will 
>          either be edge on or normal to the flow.
>          
>          Back to my original post.  Soak the unit liberally in WD-40 
>          or other penetrating oil overnight.  This should loosed the 
>          rust between the circular boss and the intake crossover.  
>          Take a pipe wrence or channel lock pliers and attempt to 
>          rotate the cap on the intake manifold.  This should break 
>          the rust loose sufficiently to work the part out.  Tapping 
>          with a hammer should also help.  Possibly apply heat to 
>          expand the manifold, but be careful of damaging the cast 
>          iron manifold.  I would hesitate to attempt to hammer a 
>          wedge under the cap, as this may damage the sealing surface.
>          
>          Good luck.  Hope I haven't confused you further.  If you 
>          have a fax number, I can send you some drawings.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:56:25 -0300 
Subject: Olds Racing: Epilogue

Sunday I took my car to the races.

1970 442, 455, M-21, 3.42 posi, functional OAI
Temp around 65 degrees, Humidity around 80%.
Having never done this before, I didnt know what
to expect.  I brought along some friends in
case I needed a hand pushing the car home. :-)
One had a '94 Mustang GT six speed and we convinced
him to race too (also a novice at the track).

PASS   #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6

Reaction: .706 1.001 .543 .458 .551 .584
I1:  2.908 2.758 2.558 2.640 2.520 2.298
I2:  .000 6.819 7.037 6.647 6.495 6.194
I3:  10.488 10.181 10.736 9.960 9.749 9.376
MPH (I3): 71.683 74.602 68.115 74.897 76.756 78.284
I4:  .000 13.084 13.855 12.822 12.539 .000
ET:  16.569 15.752 16.385 15.175 14.855 14.378
MPH:  71.119 80.076 87.343 96.215 97.581 98.973

Notes:

Pass#1: Decided to take it easy.  Drove around the burnout box.
 Didnt have the revs up when I dumped the clutch and kinda
 lurched out of the hole.  Lined up against a white mid 80's
 mustang, who won (15.470 @ 88.897mph)

Pass#2: Poor attempt at a burnout. (here on out I did a burnout first)
 Reaction time shows I was asleep at the switch.  Lined up
 against a 'orange '70 chevelle, tubbed, slicks, etc. He
 won (12.376 @ 106.185mph)

Pass#3: Better burnout.  Missed a shift into second (ouch!)
 Picked up a passenger to help debug why my mph is so slow.
 He informs me that I'm coasting across the line.  Oh,
 so thats where the 1/4 mile ends.  Duh!  Lined up against
 a '72 primered Monte Carlo, who won (15.720 @ 86.585mph)

Pass#4: Still have passenger.  Burnouts getting better, but street
 tires aint cutting it.  At least I'm getting all the water
 off the tires.  Too agressive off line and red light, however
 the results are encouraging (amazing what happens when you
 keep on the gas :-).  Line up against same orange chevelle,
 who wins again (12.410 @ 106.344mph (pretty consistent too)).

Pass#5  Now giving rides to other friends.  Cut a better light and shift
 quicker.  Previous friend had suggested staying in 3rd longer
 so I do.  Seems to help.  I line up against friends '94
 mustang GT 6 speed.  I win (!)  He claims he missed 3rd gear
 (16.412 @ 70.781mph)

Pass#6  Kick out all my friends, but still have tools, spare tire, etc.
 Improve shift speed again.  Wind it out in 2nd and 3rd better.
 Lined up against same friend w/ mustang.  I win (again!) as
 he gets a 15.697 @ 91.200mph.

At this point I called it a day.  By stripping more weight
and gas (had 1/2 tank) and working on my driving, I probably
could have made it over a 100mph and if lucky, into the 13's.  Not
bad for a stock car and novice driver.

There were several 442/cutlass's there.  One nice '72 convertible
with a 70 motor was making runs all day.  A few kids were working
on it, changing the timing between runs, running with no air
cleaner etc.  They managed to be the last car to  run at the end
of the day, and on that pass they blew a head gasket on the
drivers side.  Pretty sad seeing all the white smoke out the
left tail pipe.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed  ET=14.378 @ 98.973mph

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:55:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 64 Dynamic 88 for sale

At 12:14 AM 9/16/96 -0300, PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-15 22:38:12 EDT, you write:
>

>Now, if this were a Jetstar 88 instead of a Dynamic it would have the gold
>330 w/a 2bbl, with a 4bbl as an option.  Jetstar 88s had Chevrolet suspension
>and brake equipment, made possible by their lighter weight.  They were still
>considered a full size Olds, but Jetstars were the No-Frills models

Having recently owned a Jetstar 88, I'd like to clarify this just a bit.  It
is correct
that the Jetstar 88 had a different engine than all the other 88's in 1964.
It had
the then-new 330 cubic inch cast iron V-8 coupled with the then-new 2-speed
automatic (please-don't-call-it-a-Powerglide) Jetaway transmission.  But I
would not
characterize the brakes, etc. as "Chevrolet."  First, let's not lump the
suspension
and brakes in once sentence.  This was a full-sized Olds, and it had a
full-sized Olds
suspension shared with the other 88s.  It DID, however, have an engine,
drivetrain,
and brakes that were different.  These were not Chevrolet, but were shared
with the smaller
F-85/Cutlass line.  The 330 V-8 was also the standard engine in the Cutlass, as
was the Jetaway transmission and smaller (9") brakes.  

The lower price of the Jetstar line was thus derived from its utilization of
components
from the smaller and cheaper F-85 line.  And yes, it would probably be
reasonable
to call them the "No-Frills" models, but you could get a Jetstar 88 in any
of four body
styles (at least in '64 and '65), including a convertible, and all of them
could be fairly
nicely decked out if one so chose.

Both Consumer Reports and Motor Trend printed reviews of the Jetstar 88 in
1964, and
both praised it.  CR, not surprisingly, favored the smaller engine because,
well, it got
better gas mileage and provided adequate power.  They also much preferred
the Jetaway
over the Hydra-matic (available on the other 88s, the 98, and the Starfire)
essentially
because the Jetaway was not the Hydra-matic.  CR faulted the Hydra-matic for
sluggish
shifting and the poor shift quadrant layout of PND2LR rather than the
now-accepted
PRND2L.

MT liked the Jetstar for much the same reasons, although their wording about
the Jetaway/
Hydra-matic comparison was less harsh (as it always is when you're
critiquing the product
of a company that buys advertising in your publication).  



Dan Gulino


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:08:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Dip Stick Tube 

>Dave,
>I'd remove the LH exhaust manifold, get a pair of vice grips and
>yank it out.

I did this on my '72 350 just last weekend. I didnt want to remove the
exhaust manifold so I took the upper part of the broken tube to the
hardware store and found a concrete anchor plug that fit the tube very
snugly. I then got an oversized (hex head) screw so I could turn it down
from the side with a wrench.
I drove the plug into the tube where it was broken off at the block,
threaded the screw almost all of the way in and used a hammer and long
chisel on the hex head of the screw to drive the broken tube section up and
out of the block. Worked like a champ.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:26:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Racing: Epilogue

<<Sunday I took my car to the races.
<<-Jeff
_______________
Ahhhh, the smell of burning rubber.  Nothing like it.  Sounds like you had a 
good time.  I can't wait to get back to the strip.  Thanks for the details.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 21:51:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Insurance Info?

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Greedy insurance companies?  Government screwing things up?  Geez, man,
> where do you get these ideas?   ;)
> 
> I love the "high risk pool".  Many places have a pool of insurance
> companies who insure drivers who can't get regular insurance.  Sure, some
> are DUI's and so on but it seems that just about any reason at all is
> enough to get you in the pool -- like not having insurance!  So the same
> companies that refused to insure will now insure at 2 or 3 times the
> regular rate.  That's fair...
> 

Ideas...? Not so, it's reality. I don't have any problem either if idiots that 
are DUI or 
dangerous/careless pay 2 or 3 time the regular rate, however, I don't like the 
fact that because I 
have balls and am yonge, that I need to feed these corporate a**holes so that 
their kids can drive 
sh*t-tangs all over the sidewalks. And besides, I don't swim in pools that are 
over crowed. 
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:42:25 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Headlight anomole... 

     It could be a ground problem, check the grounds!  Also, I've seen 
     instances in dual-filament lights where one filament will burn out and 
     then falls down to short out the other filament, causing very strange 
     behavior.  Spent a while scratching my head trying to figure out a 
     turn-signal problem on my '79 once caused by this.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Headlight anomole...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/16/96 7:20 AM


When I switch to high beams, both the lights on the driver's side go 
out, and both the lights on the passenger
side come on...
     

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:07:34 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

>
>Abandoned cards are done that way here also.  For some reason people 
>won't claim a car & off it goes to the highest bidder or the salvage 
>yard. There is no problem using a car from a salvage yard here - just 
>get a bill of sale & go get a plate.  Are salvage titles a problem?  
>What is wrong w/one?
>
Well when you get a salvage title you have to go and have it inspcted by the
Highway Patrol, no biggie. They check to see if it is roadworthy and if it
is a newer car they check all the numbers. If one number doesn't match you
better have a receipt showing you made a change or you can be arrested for
trying to pass it through or even theft...rarely happens though. Only repeat
offenders get in big trouble. 
The main problem with a salvage title is when you go to resell the car. Take
for instance ny H/O. I can restore it to 100% original, best of show , and
it will still have a salvage title. It hurts the real market vaklue of the
car and when you try and sell it the buyer will be weary of it being a
junker, etc. My Z/28 was built from 4 different mid-80's Z/28's, looks
nearly brand new inside and out, but not one number matches on the car. Even
my wiper motor is off of an 84 Toro. I advertise it as an 88 Z/28 but it is
far from that....It should be worth around $4,000 on resale. I documented
the whole rebuild, pictures, etc. But since it has a salvage title people
will be scared away and I will probably get $2,500-$3,000. 
What I really need is a way to geet rid of that "salvage title" thing on my
75 H/O title since it is not a salvage car.

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:08:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 64 Dynamic 88 for sale 

>On the Dynamic 88 a 394 was all that was available.  

>Now, if this were a Jetstar 88 instead of a Dynamic it would have the gold
>330 w/a 2bbl, with a 4bbl as an option.  Jetstar 88s had Chevrolet suspension
>and brake equipment, made possible by their lighter weight.  They were still
>considered a full size Olds, but Jetstars were the No-Frills models

actually, I'm not sure what kind of 88 it is...I'll have to go back and look. I
am pretty sure that it was a 4-bbl, though.

Dan Dale

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:18:02 -0300
Subject: Re: VIN# decoding

At 03:14 09/16/1996 +0000, you wrote:

>PS. Don't know what color your convert is now, but the above combination
>sounds kind of depressing to me.  Jade Gold is a dark green with a touch of
>gold to it, not one of my favorite colors.  And then to have all that black
>trim.  Doesn't sound like pretty combination for a convertible.  I always
>think they look better in light or bright colors unless the interior or top
>are light or bright colored.
>
>Paul
>The book man 
>
Paul,

Your discription is right on the mark. The car used to be that dark
green,but I can't really see the gold in it,may just be the paint is old.The
first owner must have had it re-painted because now it is a dark green,but
no metal flake and not quite the same color. I can see the original color in
the door frame and trunk. The car has buckets and are black as well as the
dash and the carpet. I am going to replace the carpets and the bucket seat
covers,but I'm not sure what color,probably black. The car is going to be
painted someday,the wife likes dark blue w/metal flake. The top is black and
may be replaced someday. I would like to keep the car origional,but will
probably not restore it to show quality. Just like to drive with the top
down and be able to buckle people.(Me,my wife and 3 kids.) So I may change
some of the colors as I go,but your right, a dark color paint with a black
top and interior sure makes quite a sauna in the summer!!!

Brad  '68 C/S Convt

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:21:26 -0300
Subject: 66 98 Wiring Suspect 

I still suspect the light switch itself, particularly the courtesy light
circuit. When you turn the dimmer all the way counter clockwise that 
turns on the courtesy/interior lights. This may be too high amperage a
circuit or there may be a short in mine which is drawing high amps and
frying the switch. Will be going through the back part of the harness
shortly and figger that out.

As far as the high beams are concerned, a couple of questions:

Is there a right and wrong way to plug the high beam connectors in?
Low beams are one-way-to-fit only, but hi beams are reversible. Which
wire goes to which terminal? I have mine both connected the same way,
but that doesn't mean it's right.

I also ran through the boneyards on saturday looking at 4-5 different
65-66 jetstars, 88's and 98's. They're hard to find, but I found that
both the Jetstar hi beam floor switches were factory and intact, and
all of the 88's and 98's from 65 and 66 had been spliced or were badly
melted. This matches my experience and makes me think design flaw.

But what's the fix? Relay sounds right, I have a few spares around, but
what amperage? I know I have one of those and it would mount nicely on
the firewall.

Looking forward to your comments.
cf

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:27:22 -0300
Subject: Silicone Grease on Metal 

     
     
        I understand the problem of getting silicone on metal prior to 
     painting.  I encountered this when re-finishing a grand piano. A 
     previous owner had polished it with products containing silicone.  I 
     was applying a clear urethane lacquer finish.  I used an additive that 
     solved the problem.  It was called something like SilFlo.  I mixed it 
     into the lacquer I was applying.  It had silicone in it.  The idea was 
     that once silicone is present, you must use it in subsequent finishes 
     that are applied.  It worked perfectly.  
     
        I do not know if this type of thing would work for paint or not.  
     The product was made by Star Chemical out of Chicago.  They do not 
     normally sell to the public, tho.  Does anybody have any experience in 
     use of such a product to overcome the presence of silicone?  It might 
     save some people a lot of grief.
     
     Brett Chaveriat                    Arlington Hts., IL
     brett@actel.com
     '72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.
     

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:23:46 -0300
Subject: Another Introduction 

     
     Hi everybody,
     
        I have been a subscriber for a couple of months now.  I am the one 
     that asked about the funny tabs on the back seats.  My final 
     conclusion is that they were added by a previous owner to hold the 
     seat belts.  But I digress.  Here is some history.
     
        My Olds experience really began with the ride my sister and I got 
     to high school with the school librarian.  She felt sorry for us 
     walking the 12 blocks to school, and, since we lived a few houses away 
     from her, she drove us to school almost every day.  She had a '72 
     Cutlass Supreme sedan.  I really admired that car.  That is, until we 
     got in one morning and began gagging on a terrible odor in the car.  
     Her husband had purchased a bag of manure and it broke open in the 
     trunk.  The car never lost the stink (for at least the year until I 
     stopped getting rides from her).  At the time, my family had a '69 
     Buick Sport Wagon (which has the Vista Cruiser roof glass treatment).  
     This cemented my affection to the GM intermediates.
     
        We jump ahead to summer of '83, where I ordered my first new car, a 
     1984 Delta 88 Royale Brougham 2 dr.  It was loaded and I loved that 
     car.  That is, until a year later I got rear ended on the expressway, 
     and right after it was repaired, I wiped out on a patch of black ice.  
     Between these accidents, every piece of sheet metal had been replaced 
     or repaired, except the little strip of metal between the trunk lid 
     and the rear window.  
     
        I immediately ordered a 1995 of the same model.  It was great.  I 
     had to sell it a year later due to a job change.  This was painful. 
     
        My parents purchased a 1985 Custom Cruiser, based on the appeal of 
     mine.  My mother still has it with about 70k miles on it.  It's a 
     keeper, for sure.  
     
        This spring I was in San Jose and casually perusing a consignment 
     lot on a Sunday, and ran across a 1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible.  
     It was in great shape.  I was not even looking for a car.  I ended up 
     purchasing it in April and shipping it back to Chicago.  This baby is 
     loaded with options.  It is a medium Green metallic car with only 64k 
     miles.  It has a 455, OAI, and posi for the go goodies.  So far, I 
     have only had to make minor repairs (suspension and trim replacement 
     due to wear, mostly). 
     
     
     Brett Chaveriat                      Arlington Hts., IL 
     brett@actel.com
     '72 Cutlass Supreme Convt.
      

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:40:55 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Suspect

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Relay sounds right, I have a few spares around, but what amperage?

Amps = Watts / Voltage so a 100w lamp / 12 volts = 8.33 amps.  Add about 
15% as a safety factor and you get about 9.6 amps PER LAMP.  The next 
standard amperage rating would be 10 amps.  

If you run two lamps, then it's 20 amps.  Four would be, of course, 40 
amps but if you used a relay with TWO sets of contacts, you could run two 
lamps on each set of contacts and then you would only require a relay 
with 20 amp contacts.

Practice safe amps!  Don't forget protection devices ...like fuses!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:57:48 -0300
Subject: Hibeam Relay 

Mike,
Does your 66 Toro have this hi beam problem? There are many similarities
in the 98/Toro harnesses. Also, I'm thinking I would run the high beam
wire into the relay, but don't know what other wiring would be required.

Also can I use one 40 amp relay for the whole system to keep it simple?
I have a power seat relay which has this rating and would mount cleanly
to the firewall in a nice obvious place. 

You sure seem to know a lot about electronics based on your posts
over the months I've been watching. Are you an EE by any chance? 

thanks for your help!
cf

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:17:30 -0300
Subject: email

	I was wondering if anybody has been having trouble with their email.  
Last Friday mine gave me some trouble.  When i clicked on my mail icon the 
window would come up and would immediately close itself.  I had to erase all 
files that came in Friday (after making backup text files) in order to get it 
running again.  If anyone else has had this problem would you please let me 
know?

Thanks 
Steve Cannon
'86 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:11:32 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Wiring Suspect 

>I still suspect the light switch itself, particularly the courtesy light
>circuit. When you turn the dimmer all the way counter clockwise that 
>turns on the courtesy/interior lights. This may be too high amperage a
>circuit or there may be a short in mine which is drawing high amps and
>frying the switch.

Well, maybe, although that's a different set of switch contacts, and if
the switch itself is frying (bear with me; I have a ton of backed-up
email from over the weekend and haven't waded through all of it yet),
you might be able to determine which circuit the offending (melted) 
contacts are for.

>As far as the high beams are concerned, a couple of questions:
>
>Is there a right and wrong way to plug the high beam connectors in?

No. Either way around is fine.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:22:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Hoist etiquette (was Re: more on "pocket rocket") 

>Of course, you do _lower_ the engine to just a couple inches off the ground
>as soon as it clears the engine bay, right? *AND* you are doing this on a
>flat surface? And you swept the ground of all branches/rocks/sand that can
>interrupt the smooth travel of your engine?

And another suggestion from the Been There/Done That Department for when
you're all just starting the process of lifting the thing out of the car:
Shut Up. Keep quiet, turn off the radio blasting in the background, and
when something is about to snap and drop the engine back down, you _might_
hear a little creaking or groaning beforehand. Any little advance warning
is better than none at all...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:02:46 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: keep_one_list 

My vote is for one list.

Before hitting the send button, ask yourself, "Is this post necessary?", 
"Is the subject correct?", "Can I make this post shorter".  If the post is 
soliciting for direct responses, please include your e-mail address in the 
post because some mailers (eg CCMail), strip the originator's address.  For 
myselft, the variety of responses and people on the list is too valuable to 
split.

If someone wants to start another list, please do.  It would be nice to 
cross post information to this list also, so we can all benefit.  I applaud 
Mike for starting the Toro list, and the members posting relevant info here 
also.  I applaud Greg for dealing with the system administration.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:12:36 -0300
Subject: Re: email

Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has been having trouble with their email.

Nope.  That is no more than usual.  This sounds like a local problem, 
that is, your system.  What fur email are you runnin?  Judging from the 
continuous lines, Mail Exchange?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #302
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