To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/28/96 09:09:02 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #314


oldsmobile-digest       Saturday, 28 September 1996    Volume 01 : Number 314


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Yaros <76703.4332@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:39:06 -0300
Subject: Unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:38:21 -0300
Subject: Re: olds.history # or e-mail address? 

>     Does anyone have the phone number and times listed to call the olds
> history center? I saw some posts earlier but no number mentioned...
> I saw a e-mail address: oldsheidi@aol.com  --but I don't know who I'd get if 
I
> emailed them.


(517) 885-1502   7-11am Michigan time (currently EDT)

Mike Turley		1966 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:56:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

>This isn't the way my Delta works, but I admit to not having tried.
>Wouldn't want to.

I'm used to going up underneath, myself. I've seen the dash pad removed
by others working on older cars, but usually I find it quicker to fumble
around underneath until I find the fasteners I'm looking for.

P.S. Our network connection in Chicago has been up, then down, at random
intervals over the past few days, so if you sent me something and got no
response, give me a day or two to receive it just in case...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:08:13 -0300
Subject: 307 vs. 305 

>Here's the big question:  How the heck would I get a stock eliminator
>   class 307 to push my car into the Mid-12's???  Gut interior, remove
>     body and most of frame, then sit on engine and work throttle?  I'd
>    have to get the calculator out, but doesn't running 12's require
>     something around 500hp?

Good question, but I think that the times he is referring to (mid 12's) must be
1/8 mile times.  My 1987 4-4-2 with 307 H.O. and 3.73 rear end turns 16.24 in
the 1/4 and 10.50 in the 1/8 mile.  A stock Malibu 305 w/2.56 rear end or a
stock Cutlass 307 w/2.56 rear end wiil do approx. 17.10 in the 1/4 and 12.00 in
the 1/8 mile.  I had a 1980 Malibu 305 and a 1982 Cutlass 307 and those are
approx what I remember for times.  I never did like 1/8 mile racing, just isn't
the same.   Steve

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:07:50 -0300
Subject: Olds History Center

I purchased my 1987 Olds 442 new and I want to contact the Olds history center
for any more information available.  I have the original window sticker, but 
the
dealer threw away the invoice.  I cannot find the phone number for the center
anywhere.  Can someone help?  Thanks, Steve  76057.1404@compuserve.com

1987 Oldsmobile 442

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:08:03 -0300
Subject: 120 MPH speedo

>PS  I am pretty sure these units also came stock in 87 442's.  I saw a few
>last year at Performance Sunday at Englishtown, NJ.  Can anyone back this
>up???

Yes, in 1987 the 442's came with a 120 mph speedo stock.  When I ordered my 
1987
442 new, there was no information that the car would have a different speedo.
When the car came in and I picked it up, imagine my suprise and elation when I
saw the 120 mph speedo.  That was only surpassed when I started the engine and
heard the rumble of a wonderful stock exhaust system.  A friend with a 1987
Monte Carl SS tried 3 different exhaust systems trying to make it sound similar
to the 442 but it never had the same rumble.  Steve 1987 442

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <76057.1404@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:08:23 -0300
Subject: Salon Weight

>My '86 Cutlass 442 has a curb weight of approximately 4200 lbs (says so on the
sticker >inside the
>drivers door).  Have to remember the glass in those t-tops weigh a lot more
than a >metal roof
>would.

Remember, the weight posted inside of the door is gross weight including
passengers.  On a G-body, I believe it is 850 lbs.  I have a 1987 Olds 4-4-2 
and
the brochure says 3208 lbs curb weight.  I had it weighed and the car actually
weighs 3420 with no driver.  I also have T-tops.  steve

------------------------------

From: David L Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:16:22 -0300
Subject: 70 Rally 350 for sale

Ad in the Indanapolis Trader:
70 Cutlass Rally 350, M21 4 speed, 3.91 12 bolt posi, PS, PB, body rough drive 
home,
1 out of 2367, $3775 will trade for wrecker truck.
317-738-4966 4-9 pm

I take no responsibilty for the correctness or incorrectness of this ad.
Save this one before it is too late!

Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:02:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Aha!  If it is 7qts....

Dave,
I've never seen a diesel pan, so I'll defer to anyone with hands-on diesel 
experience for this one.  Now that we are on the subject of oil pans, I have 
an Olds pan that a friend got for me on a trip to the boneyard.  He took it 
off a big block that was laying on the ground beside a Toronado.  I had told 
him that Toros had bigger pans, so although he is a die hard Pontiac man, he 
got it for me.  Claims it was painful for him to touch an Olds engine.  What 
a ham.

I'm not sure if it is a Toro pan though, since I put Mondello's (made by 
Moroso, I think) 7 qt oiling system (6 in the pan, high volume/pressure pump 
with the macho size pick-up tube)on my 455 and I seem to have lost my 
original 4 qt pan.  I have no pan for reference.  It's possible that the 
engine was not out of the Toro, so can you or anybody out there give me the 
part number for the Toro pan and let me know where the number is stamped on 
the pan?  Also, he didn't know the year of the Toro.  Could have been a 425. 
 Did they have the big pan?  Same part #?  I know of a junkyard in upstate 
NY that had 3 or 4  1972 Toros sitting in it.  They have engines in them (GA 
heads), but the pans look really weird.  They certainly don't look like the 
one I have, so I never bothered to get them.  Are they 5 qt. pans??
Scott Mullen
'70 442 and not much Toro savvy.
 ----------
From: David Brown
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Re: Aha!  If it is 7qts....
Date: Thursday, September 26, 1996 3:16PM


I'm not saying you or Mondello is wrong or lying, but has anyone actually
compared the two or measured the capacity?  Of course that diesel radiator
w/oil cooler is a cheap way to have an oil cooler and 3 core radiator.

Anyone taken the diesel rods and pistons and made a nice high compression
350 race motor?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

 ------------------
According to Mondello, the pan is not larger.  Only Toro pans have a 5 Qt
capacity.  The Diesel pan is not bigger.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:04:00 -0300
Subject: Test:  Throw Away

xxxxxx

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:42:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Untorqueable brake line (was Re: Removing frozen tranny cooler  
lines (was Re: Water/Fuel Pump replace) 

Spud wrote:

What seems to be happening is something on the nut/flare mating surface is
catching on one another.  As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
line flex, placing a <<counter>> torque on the connection.  I've tried
applying a counter torque on the line, but I'm leary of crushing or
destroying it.

Frank Boerger replied:

As I am grasping at straws on this one, I have seen the time when either the
"nut" or the tubing had a burr which would engage the other as they were mated
under force.  Check to see that the line flare on the nut side, and the flare
surface on the tubing side are smooth.  Try rotating the nut against the line
flare with just stiff finger pressure, you might feel it "catch".

I say:

This did occur to me and is worth checking.  I didn't do this procedure,
though, because I didn't want to remove the line, which would require eother
bending it to get it out of the proportioning valve or unmounting the valve.

I'll try a visual on the mating surfaces first, without removing the line
from the valve, I guess, then unmount the valve later, just in case there is
a burr or fin too small to see (that's a lower case, Esko; the only way I'd
ever see a Fin in there is if I were too drunk to breathe).

Bill Culp replied and Greg Pruett seconded:

Consider using a light oil (WD40) on the junction of the tubing & the 
nut.  This should give you the sliding motion you need between the parts 
& help in tightening the nut.  It also should squeeze out easily & not 
allow the nut to loosen.

I say:

Might this possibly contaminate the brake fluid?  Were it almost any other
system on the car, I'd try this first, but these be the brakes.  Comments?


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:41:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Dash lights in 1983 Delta 88 

I've finished my Thesis Paper, or memo, or Memoir, on how to open
up a Delta 88 dash to do the bulbs behind the speedo. Much of this
stuff applies to a lot of similar cars. It's too long(-winded) to
post here, but I'll email it to anyone who's interested. I'd send
it to the original poster right now but seem to have lost the note
so I don't know who started this thread.

(Q: How long does it take Andy to explain how to change a light bulb?

 A: About 6K  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:43:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds History Center 

>I purchased my 1987 Olds 442 new and I want to contact the Olds history center
>for any more information available.  I have the original window sticker,
>but >the dealer threw away the invoice.  I cannot find the phone number
>for the
>center anywhere.  Can someone help?  Thanks, Steve  76057.1404@compuserve.com

Address and phone number for the History Center are on the Olds Page at
http://www.442.com  under the Olds Related Entities link.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:42:09 -0300
Subject: Symantics (was other stuff) 

At 09:59 PM 9/26/96 -0300, I wrote:

>As I begin to apply torque, I can see the brake
>line flex, placing a torsional torque on the connection.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Garshk, ain't that repetitively redundant of me?  What torque ain't
torsional, I asks youse.  The term I was looking for was "counter torque."

Hey!  What's wrong with me!  Throwing a grammar flame at myself?  I must be
schizophrenic.

No I'm not!

Yes I *am*!

Oh shut up!

You shut up!



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:38:54 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio #

> > > This isn't going to help much.... I know that in Cutlasses in '68 you
> > > could only get an am/fm mono radio (no Wonderbar or Stereo near as I can
> >
> > Mine (1968 442 convertible) has an AM/FM mono wonderbar in it. It is
> > original.
> 
> You mean one with signal-seeking? I'm pretty sure my literature says that
> was only available in big cars in '68... though that doesn't mean much
> from past experience. Can you confirm?
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        

Greg,

Mine does not have a foot switch as I believe that the 'big car' search 
radios did.  It only works from the bar on the dash.  I believe that the 
'big cars' used a much larger radio & the room in the Cutlass isn't 
available in the back of the dash for switching from one to the other.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:57:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Rusto Tip

Good information from Bob and Esko on this 
but I want to run my big mouth just a bit:

Bondo and fiberglassing are two different critters.  While I'm violently 
opposed to bondo, I've got no problems with fiberglass (more properly 
referred to as Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic or FRP).  Yes, both use a 
polyester or epoxy resin of some type as a base but bondo uses a filler 
where FRP does not.

The distinction is important for the following reasons:

1) Due to the filler, bondo will absorb water much, much easier than FRP.

2) Because it lacks the fiberglass reinforcement, bondo has much less 
   structural strength than FRP.  (so does lead for that matter)

Ever see a boat made out of bondo?

> Clean inside as good as you can, prep the metal with some sort of 
> primer/rust converter.

Good idea. BUT before you get to the step where you apply either bondo or 
FRP, sand the paint off the surfaces it will be in contact with.  The 
resins formulated to be used with metal are designed to stick best to 
METAL not paint.

After you finished with the sanding *DO* use a good primer/sealer.  No 
matter which product you use, keeping the water (and rust) out depends on 
just how waterproof the surfaces are.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:04:38 -0300 
Subject: Re: Numbers Match

 Also,the oil filler tube does
>not have the sticker on it any more. But there is a number stamped on the
>tube that is not the same as the motor number. The Year One book says that
>these numbers should match. Maybe the tube was changed? Any suggestions??
>Thanks....
>
>Brad '68 C/S Convt
**********************************************************************
>Brad:
>
>The number on the oil filler tube is a building sequence number for the
>engine and does -not- match the VIN.

>Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible
*********************************************************************  
I sent this post on Wednesday the 25th-but I never saw it posted-Ignore this if
you've seen it already...

Are you guys KIDDING me?!? I checked my oil tube also at the suggestion of
matching numbers (10 yrs. ago)-and mine also did not match the VIN in the
windsheild..So when I rebuilt the 350 about 6 yrs. ago I threw the block away
thinking it was not the original therefore worthless....
If what you guys say is true-then I need to make a call to my friend mechanic
in Walla-Walla,Wa. and have him look around in the "pile" of blocks in his
"backyard"--AAAAARRRRGGGG! I would be so mad if I did have a matching numbers
engine/trans/rear axle this whole time and didn't even know it....
- --Whenever I've thought about selling the car in the past/present-the big
sticking point with people is "huh, not matching numbers eh?--well I'll think
about it..."  We weren't so picky about "matching numbers" 10-12 yrs. ago 

Rob "Stricken with panic" Malland
and "his possibly matching numbers(eng.trans.axle)" 1973-442
Tacoma, Wa



















..

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:55:17 -0300
Subject: Re: request (list related) -- Fixed

Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com> wrote:
> MTA's not crazy.  In Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) a line 
> containing only a period *IS* the end of message indicator.  The problem 
> is on the SENDER side.

I think the folks at CCN have fixed the problem.  I got a digest
today that had a line ".." by itself.  Good work Greg!

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:00:13 -0300
Subject: Rear view mirror rust

The rear view mirror in Tiny looks like it's starting to rust (?)
from within.  That's how I would describe it anyway.  Or maybe
tarnish is a better word (is it really silver back there?)
Whatever it is, does anyone know of a way to fix this, or at
least stop it?  Right now the damage is mostly just near the 
edges so I can still see through the mirror for the most part.

I've thought about replacing the mirror but I imagine it would be
hard to do.  Probably have to come from another convertable since
it has a light in it (presumably to replace the dome light) and
I don't think other mirrors did.  Of course if someone happens to
have a pristine rearview mirror for a '69 98 'vert sitting around
collecting dust I'd be happy to take it off your hands :)

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:07:49 -0300
Subject: Re: 120 MPH speedo

At 11:08 AM 9/27/96 -0300, Steve Ochs wrote:
>>PS  I am pretty sure these units also came stock in 87 442's.  I saw a few
>>last year at Performance Sunday at Englishtown, NJ.  Can anyone back this
>>up???
>
>Yes, in 1987 the 442's came with a 120 mph speedo stock.  When I ordered my
1987
>442 new, there was no information that the car would have a different speedo.
>When the car came in and I picked it up, imagine my suprise and elation when I
>saw the 120 mph speedo.  That was only surpassed when I started the engine and
>heard the rumble of a wonderful stock exhaust system.  A friend with a 1987
>Monte Carl SS tried 3 different exhaust systems trying to make it sound 
similar
>to the 442 but it never had the same rumble.  Steve 1987 442

My '80 442 has a 120 speedo also. Kinda odd for that time period. Even the
Z/28's and T/A's around then got 85-110 speedo's.
>
>
>
>
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-body list since: 5/95
88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28 Cross-Fire 305/TH-350...daily driver
81 Camaro....soon to be TPI 383/3spd...street/strip car
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30  350/TH-350...show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25 350/TH-350...restoring now

------------------------------

From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:01:09 -0300
Subject: Resto Question

Having replaced the standard gage package with a rally package I cleaned 
up the cover with 3M Plastic Cleaner and a buffing wheel as it was badly 
scratched.  Now it is so shiny it acts as a mirror and it is very 
difficult to see the gages through the reflection.  Does anyone have any 
ideas for a non-reflective coating (perhaps a window film of some type).
BTW the 3M product was execellent (too excellent). Thanks for your help.

AL


 "The Viking"
  PGP Public Key Available by E-Mail Request

------------------------------

From: Anectine@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:09:25 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio # 

i have installed a stereo amfm radio in my 69 olds cutlass
i believe they could be ordered from the factory in both 68 and 
69 Cutlasses. however the installation is relatively difficult.
i have the factory instruction on how to do it if you are interested.
the most difficult part was obtaining the radio. Elliots Radio in pennsyvania
had invaluable help 
  Chuck Lobrano

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:11:18 -0300
Subject: interior pieces-parts for a 1969 98

  I've got a laundry list of odds-n-ends type interior pieces-parts 
that I need for Tiny.  I'll spare everybody posting the whole darn
thing here, but if anyone knows of a good source for things kinds of
things please contact me.  What I'd really like to do is find a car
in a salvage yard somewhere that had a good interior but a twisted
frame or something (so I didn't try to save that one too! :)
  Other related question -- is it possible to somehow "re-chrome" 
plastic pieces such as the turn signal switch or the tilt lever?
The "chrome" (is it really chrome or just shinely paint?) is flaking
off the ones I have.  I thought about trying to put some clear-coat
on there to get the remaining chrome to stay, but it's really to far
gone at this point to bother with. 

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:14:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear view mirror rust 

>The rear view mirror in Tiny looks like it's starting to rust (?)
>from within.  That's how I would describe it anyway.  Or maybe
>tarnish is a better word (is it really silver back there?)
>Whatever it is, does anyone know of a way to fix this, or at
>least stop it?  Right now the damage is mostly just near the 
>edges so I can still see through the mirror for the most part.

Ayup. My '82 was starting to do the same thing just before I sold
it. I thought the reflective coating is some sort of vacuum-deposited
stuff on glass...? Being a metal substance of some sort I guess it
finally starts to react to moisture, or the seal around the mirror
frame decays and lets air in after some years have gone by.

Mirrors can be re-silvered, but I'm not sure how special this one is;
I mean, it's got that Day/Night prismatic thing, too, which I have
_never_ understood.  :-)  May be better/cheaper/quicker to look for
a good replacement than to try and service the one you've got.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:11:00 -0300
Subject: RE: olds.history # or e-mail address?

Rob,
I was the poor soul who called the History Center.  The number is 
517-885-1502.  I think you'll be SOL on getting the documentation for the 
'73.  Prepare to be disappointed.  However, they will send you some Olds 
literature on your model year car (free) so it's worth the call.  The guy I 
talked to was nice and tried to be helpful.  He just didn't have many 
resources to work with.

The email address is from the Olds corporate home page, which is a seperate 
entity.  As far as I know, there is no email address for the History Center. 
 When you call them, please ask them for an email address and share it with 
all of us.  I just got my Aid for the Olds Enthusiast (a collection of 
addresses for resto/repair stuff- helpful but not exciting) from the 
corporate home page.  The GM resto parts catalog was voted a dud, so I 
didn't get it.  As far as tech help goes, ask your questions on this site or 
at the History Center.  The oldsheidi@aol.com address is just corporate PR. 


When I get time, I want to find an email address for somebody in the bowels 
of Olds engineering.  Wouldn't it be great to get some of those retired Olds 
engineers involved in this page?  Think of all of the inside poop they could 
provide.  Anybody know any names?  All I know about GM engineers is Delorean 
and the GTO.  Who was/were the leading Olds engineer(s) from the muscle car 
era?  Given a name, a phone number can follow, then an email address.... 
 What do all of you think?
Scott Mullen
'70 442
 ----------
From: ROB MALLAND
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: olds.history # or e-mail address?
Date: Friday, September 27, 1996 10:03AM


hey gang,
     Does anyone have the phone number and times listed to call the olds
history center? I saw some posts earlier but no number mentioned...
I saw a e-mail address: oldsheidi@aol.com  --but I don't know who I'd get if 
I
emailed them.
    Some of the questions for them are of the '73 model year cars, I know 
that
one of the earlier posts you guys were having trouble with the "older" cars
documentation (i.e. some nit-wit threw it away!) I hope '73 is "late" enough
to
have kept some info.
   Anyways, a phone number or e-mail address would be nice... thanks for 
your
help.

Rob Malland  1973-442
Tacoma, WA












..

 ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
 ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:32:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear view mirror rust

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> 
> The rear view mirror in Tiny looks like it's starting to rust (?)
> from within.  That's how I would describe it anyway.  Or maybe
> tarnish is a better word (is it really silver back there?)
> Whatever it is, does anyone know of a way to fix this, or at
> least stop it?

I don't rememer if is silver or mercury or what but if you can 
disassemble it, a local antique dealer may be able to point you to a 
mirror restoration shop that can "re-silver" it.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:34:00 -0300
Subject: 69 4-4-2 motor picture

Glenn Connors wrote:
<<Does anyone have a picture of a '69 4-4-2 engine compartment that's 
basically correct?

Glenn,
I'm sure I have several pictures of anatomically correct '69 442 engine 
compartments.  One is from a set of collector cards of muscle cars that I 
picked up several years ago, that has a picture on the front of the car, and 
on the back has a picture of the engine compartment, and lists all the specs 
on the engine, and performance specs, and options.  It was a pretty neat set 
of cards.  I'll have to dig it out of my closet.  I also have several books 
with pictures.  I'll go through them this weekend, and bring them into work 
to scan them for you if you still need it.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
(and X-owner of '69 442, that I kick myself in the butt for selling)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:40:05 -0300
Subject: Plastic Chrome 

On my 66 98 (and all A,B &C body 66's) the gear shift lever end is chromed
plastic. I've found the same piece on 65 A,B,&C bodies, but in 67 they
changed it. I've worn our several and now stock some (so so condition)
spares. The next time I break it, or the chrome flakes off (creating
a neat little gear shift lever knife to slice my hand), I'll just pop
the end off with a pair of vise grips and replace. 

Most of the boneyard pieces are now cracked or flaking, if you find a 
good one, here is the procedure for gently getting it off. If you feel 
it will break, pull the whole lever as one piece:

Removing Gear Shift Lever End from 65-66 A,B,C Bodies:
1) Get vise grips around the shift lever below the end of the plastic
cap end, loose enough to slide, tight enough when tapped lightly to
push the end off

2) Tap lightly with hammer or suitable heavy object on the vise grips,
trying to push the plastic-chrome end off in the direction of the passenger
seat.

3) Try to not to ruin the part in this process. Be kind to a chromed 30
year old piece of plastic.

Anybody restoring these things or rechroming or have any NOS ?

cf

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:42:41 -0300
Subject: RE: Rear view mirror rust

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAC71.601B3BA0
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Couldn't you look into getting it re-silvered like you would do with any 
antique mirror that you wanted to restore.

- ----------
From: 	tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com[SMTP:tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com]
Sent: 	Friday, September 27, 1996 12:00 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Rear view mirror rust

The rear view mirror in Tiny looks like it's starting to rust (?)
from within.  That's how I would describe it anyway.  Or maybe
tarnish is a better word (is it really silver back there?)
Whatever it is, does anyone know of a way to fix this, or at
least stop it?  Right now the damage is mostly just near the 
edges so I can still see through the mirror for the most part.

I've thought about replacing the mirror but I imagine it would be
hard to do.  Probably have to come from another convertable since
it has a light in it (presumably to replace the dome light) and
I don't think other mirrors did.  Of course if someone happens to
have a pristine rearview mirror for a '69 98 'vert sitting around
collecting dust I'd be happy to take it off your hands :)

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation





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------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:52:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear view mirror rust

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I mean, it's got that Day/Night prismatic thing, too, which I have
> _never_ understood.  :-)  

I believe it's due to a bevel cut of the glass.  "Day" you're looking 
though the glass at the rear (silver) surface, "Night" you're looking at 
the front surface of the glass (with the silver surface tilted away).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:41:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

>Anybody restoring these things or rechroming or have any NOS ?

Is "rechroming" the right word? Not trying to sound snotty here;
what I mean is that I thought the process of getting chrome on
plastic, what we're talking about here, is different from the
process of getting chrome on metal, such as on a bumper. Perhaps
it's cheaper? I notice we didn't start seeing chromed-plastic
nameplates and badges on fenders until after many decades of
chromed pot-metal insignias...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:55:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up!

buehner wrote:
> 
> Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.

You retrofitted it?  WAY cool!  What did this run ya?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com (john berenyi 956-6310)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:55:05 -0300
Subject: Oil stoppers for rockers???

I want to set my preload for the lifters while running the engine.
What can I use?  I tried some product called Rocker Stoppers and
they are not designed for my 67 Cutlass 330 rockers.  Any ideas?

All I want is something that wont allow oil to drip on the exhaust
manifold while running.

John  (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com (john berenyi 956-6310)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:57:55 -0300
Subject: 442 Club in Dallas, Texas???

Let me know if there is one.


John  (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com (john berenyi 956-6310)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:02:49 -0300
Subject: How fast has your speedo read ??

I've had mine go past 120 mph and keep going till it read 15mph on my
67 442. I wonder what that is interpolated?  


John (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:03:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> what I mean is that I thought the process of getting chrome on
> plastic, what we're talking about here, is different from the
> process of getting chrome on metal, such as on a bumper. 

Certainly some variation.  Plating, I believe, is a type of electrolysis 
with implies conduction.  I suspect the plastic (a non-conductor) must be 
coated with some type of conductive goop before it can be plated.

Spud?  Any ideas?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:04:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

>Certainly some variation.  Plating, I believe, is a type of electrolysis 
>with implies conduction.  I suspect the plastic (a non-conductor) must be 
>coated with some type of conductive goop before it can be plated.
>
>Spud?  Any ideas?

Also the term "vacuum deposition" has been rattling around in my head
(many other things do, too, but that is another topic), although I
cannot see how a vacuum is any more likely to make the shiny stuff
stick to the plastic.

It occurs to me that the chrome in plastic car model kits has been
around for decades so it would seem that the process is not new, but
perhaps it took a while to figure out how to get a thick enough layer
put down that would stand up to constant handling or weather-related
wear and tear.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David L Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:20:08 -0300
Subject: re: Plastic Chrome

I have seen an ad in Hemmings dealing with this. The process is called vacuum
plating. I have no idea how it works but it is the same process used for the 
chrome on model car kits. Look for the ad in the "services" section. Hemmings
on line does not show the ad so you will have to get a copy of the magazine.

Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:31:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome

I wrote to one of the companies that advertised in Hemmings a couple of 
years ago about this... called Mr. G's I think. Seems to me that they 
sent a good description of what they do in the material they sent me, 
which is at home. I'll take a look tonight and post what I find here.

I can tell you that it isn't cheap. I was interested in plastic chroming 
the pair of armrest bases in my '64, and it would have been over $100 as 
I recollect. They are now painted chrome silver... not as good but much 
cheaper!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:35:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Symantics (was other stuff) 

>Hey!  What's wrong with me!  Throwing a grammar flame at myself?  I must be
>schizophrenic.

     Yeah, everyone thought I was schizo' too, till the voices in my head
told me to stop telling everyone I could hear them!!!   :)  ;)  :|  :(  :{  *
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:35:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 vs. 305  

>>Here's the big question:  How the heck would I get a stock eliminator
>>   class 307 to push my car into the Mid-12's???  Gut interior, remove
>>     body and most of frame, then sit on engine and work throttle?  I'd
>>    have to get the calculator out, but doesn't running 12's require
>>     something around 500hp?
>
>Good question, but I think that the times he is referring to (mid 12's) must 
be
>1/8 mile times.  My 1987 4-4-2 with 307 H.O. and 3.73 rear end turns 16.24 in
>the 1/4 and 10.50 in the 1/8 mile.  A stock Malibu 305 w/2.56 rear end or a
>stock Cutlass 307 w/2.56 rear end wiil do approx. 17.10 in the 1/4 and 12.00 
in
>the 1/8 mile.  I had a 1980 Malibu 305 and a 1982 Cutlass 307 and those are
>approx what I remember for times.  I never did like 1/8 mile racing, just 
isn't
>the same.   Steve

     I'm not sure what this thread started out as, (I'm not gonna look
either!) but I must poke my nose in here now...  Check out these pics I
pulled in from my Olds in action mag a while back.  It never shows a time,
but a pic's worth a thousand words, and I've got a feeling it's better than
17:)  It sure ~looks~ capable/possible.  I have no ideas/info on this car
other than what the pic says.  What do you think?

     http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/jackm83.jpg

     This is a non-linked image page, so the publishers don't give me any
more crap.  I hate that!  :(

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:35:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up! 

>buehner wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.
>
>You retrofitted it?  WAY cool!  What did this run ya?
>
     I've answered this a couple times personally, so I'll take advantage of
Micro$oft's cut 'n' paste :)


     Found it in a salvage lot here, from a '93 (?) GranPrix.  Some sweet
talking, and mild arguements about it being worthless to them by spring (in
a car w/o windows, etc.) and they let me take it home for, get this, $75.00!
(I had the checkbook ready!)  It also helped to know the people there well,
(since I've had classes with most of the employees there, and took classes
from the owner...) and the arguement of "hey, who else in the state is going
to have a use for the thing?  They were fairly easily convinced that I was
probably the only one in the area who could even make the thing work.  I did
a report on the Heads Up in our pace car a couple years ago, so I knew the
system fairly well.   

     It's kinda distracting at night, tho.  I need to get the variable
dimmer in there.  Right now I've got these bright (dimmer with lights on)
numbers, etc right on the shoulder about 30' in front of me.  One NASTY
blind spot!  That won't last long, tho.  Also, if I lean to either side at
all, or sit up in the seat, the numbers disappear (The HUD is designed so
~only~ the driver can see it!  Kinda like Closed Captioning:  Only deaf
people can see it... Well some people might fall for that!)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:35:30 -0300
Subject: Re: interior pieces-parts for a 1969 98 

>  I've got a laundry list of odds-n-ends type interior pieces-parts 
>that I need for Tiny.  I'll spare everybody posting the whole darn
>thing here, but if anyone knows of a good source for things kinds of
>things please contact me.  What I'd really like to do is find a car
>in a salvage yard somewhere that had a good interior but a twisted
>frame or something (so I didn't try to save that one too! :)

     Fire away!  I've got one that fits the description to a point.  (The
frame ~is~ twisted up like a pretzel!)  Interior's rough, but ya never know.
It's 250 miles away, but next time I'm there I can check for you.  I might
know by memory for some parts.  Upholstery-wise, forget it, but some of the
hard parts & chrome might work out.  I swiped some emblems last time I was
there, (they were still decent) but I don't think the "l/s" emblems would do
you any good for a convert!  (It's a 4dr hardtop)  Oh, you ~can't~ have the
tilt/telescopic, either!  If it's still good, it has a home in my GranSport!
I've got a pic of it, but it's really small.  I'll do some playing with it
and see if I can put that on my page someday.  Anyway, how 'bout that list?

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:36:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil stoppers for rockers???

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, john berenyi 956-6310 wrote:
> I want to set my preload for the lifters while running the engine.
> What can I use?  I tried some product called Rocker Stoppers and
> they are not designed for my 67 Cutlass 330 rockers.  Any ideas?
> 
> All I want is something that wont allow oil to drip on the exhaust
> manifold while running.

One good tip I heard for this is to find a pair of junkyard valve covers 
- - preferably el-cheapo chrome Taiwanese ones - and cut them lengthwise. 
Install the lower half and throw away the top. Presto, a oil-catcher for 
doing valve work with the engine running!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:39:19 -0300
Subject: RE: olds.history # or e-mail address?

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, R Mullen wrote:
> When I get time, I want to find an email address for somebody in the bowels 
> of Olds engineering.  Wouldn't it be great to get some of those retired Olds 
> engineers involved in this page?  Think of all of the inside poop they could 
> provide.  Anybody know any names?  All I know about GM engineers is Delorean 
> and the GTO.  Who was/were the leading Olds engineer(s) from the muscle car 
> era?  Given a name, a phone number can follow, then an email address.... 
>  What do all of you think?

We talked about this a few months ago. I remember that Chris Witt had 
been talking to one of the retired Olds guys who had been involved with 
designing the Rocket V-8. We never did track him down again. But I still 
wonder about that... one of the development engineers from the '60s, who 
was involved in getting those cars ready for production or whatever, 
would make an incredible addition to the list. Guess we just need to keep 
beating the drum about this place...

Greg 

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:49:01 -0300
Subject: Re: interior pieces-parts for a 1969 98 

 I've got a pic of it, but it's really small.  I'll do some playing with it
and see if I can put that on my page someday.  Anyway, how 'bout that list?

     Done :)  Really small and fuzzy tho.  It's the only pic I've got, too.
Anyway, it's at   http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/6998blur.jpg    It's just
a single linkless image page, 'cuz I'm too lazy to make a ~real~ one right
now, and it's not all that good anyway.  If you look closely (and use your
imagination a bit) you can see the frame damage in the front.  (look above
that 49 truck's cowling)  Those are the fenders up there!  Anyway, that's
that...

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:45:51 -0300
Subject: Rechroming Plastic 

Andy,
I don't know how else to refer to the restoration of plastic covered
with a chrome plating. Not trying to sound snotty over here either,
but I thought that woudl be the best thing to call it. I can say I've
seen places in hemmings which advertise the plating of plastic as
their specialty. Peharps the process is different from plating metal
somehow. I'm not a metallurgist or plater so I dunno...
cf

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:57:29 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Plastic Chrome 

          The process is called "vacuum deposited aluminum".  Basicly 
          molten aluminum is evaporated in a vacuum and condenses onto 
          the plastic part, producing the shiny surface.  As others 
          have noted, normal "chrome" plating involves electrochemical 
          deposition, which is not possible with non-conductive 
          plastic.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:53:16 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 120MPH Speedo... 

     Sure, if you can find that ad let me know.  I don't know if a monte 
     speedo would fit or look right, but I can call to see if they happen 
     to have any Olds speedos.  Thanks!
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/26/96 8:21 PM

     
     I seem to remember one of my old Hot Rod magazines listing a supplier 
     that sells 120 mph speedos for m*nty c@rlos. (either that or c@m@ros, 
     I can't remember.  It's terrible to be senile at 19.)  They even sell 
     250 kph speedos for Canadians.  Will a monte speedometer fit your `84 
     HO?  If it will I'll try and find the issue in question and get the 
     name and locale of the supplier for you.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:18:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Plastic Chrome

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
>           The process is called "vacuum deposited aluminum".  

And there you have it.  Thanks, Joe.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:15:48 -0300
Subject: GM Resto Parts Article and Recall Info 

In today's Chicago Tribune (Friday, 9/27), Jim Mateja's automotive
column is all about GM restoration parts. There's a lot of useful
information in it and I'll try to key in the relevant stuff when I
get a chance. If someone is standing on one foot waiting for info
such as GM restoration parts info, catalogs, etc., send me a fax
number and I'll send a photocopy of the article.

Also there was a pointer there to a Nat'l Highway Traffic Safety Admin. 
web page listing service bulletins, recalls and defect investigations:

http://www.consumerworld.com

Unfortunately it didn't work when I tried it, but I'm posting this
anyway in case someone else wants to try out variations in punctuation
or something to see if they can find it. Looks like a Tribune typo...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:37:50 -0300
Subject: Re: GM Resto Parts Article and Recall Info

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> In today's Chicago Tribune (Friday, 9/27), Jim Mateja's automotive
> column is all about GM restoration parts. 

Hey Andy,

Does the Chicago Tribune have a web site where they
post articles like the Tampa Tribune does?

BTW,

Natl Transportation Safety Board	http://www.ntsb.gov/
Natl Highway Traffic Safety Admin	http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:46:52 -0300
Subject: FW: Wind noise

Anybody remember this? Did it ever happen? If so, how did it go? Should it be
attempted by mere mortals? Thanks, Joanne

- ----------
From: 	tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com[SMTP:tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, May 30, 1996 10:34 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Wind noise

> > Yes the gaskets are replaceable.  I will be replacing all my door gaskets 
and
> t-top gaskets sometime early this summer.  If there is enough interest, I 
have
> access to a digital camera at work & could make a pictoral FAQ for how to
> change t-top and door gaskets (prep work, etc.).  I'll even make the mistakes
> first and bungle things once or twice to save you all the trouble!  :)
> 

Yes!  Please do this.  I'm re-claiming my '85 Salon from my parents shed this
fall and will be replacing the driver side door and all door and T-top seals.
This kind of pictoral faq would be great.

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:50:18 -0300
Subject: Re: GM Resto Parts Article and Recall Info 

>Does the Chicago Tribune have a web site where they
>post articles like the Tampa Tribune does?

Sho'nuff:

http://www.chicago.tribune.com

And thanks to Mike's prodding... I see that the article I was
talking about is accessible there, something they haven't been
doing in the past. At the bottom of the main page you'll find a
text search window. Simply enter "Mateja" and you'll get one hit,
for Jim Mateja's column today. (I think this may only work for
_today_.)

Be sure to check out the autofinder page (just add "/autofind" to
the URL above): classifieds with photos, including a '72 Cutlass 
convertible, '71 442 convertible and '67 98 convertible.

Downside of the page, such as it is, is an annoying overuse of
silly animations. They're soliciting answers for a survey of their
web page presentations, though, so you can flame as appropriate...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Howes, Jim" <howesj@nasd.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:07:06 -0300
Subject: RE: Wind noise

Hey I can hear that wind right now!  I am interested, 86 Salon with a
wind storm where ever I go.... turn up that radio!!!!

Thanks 

Jim H.

>
>Anybody remember this? Did it ever happen? If so, how did it go? Should it be
>attempted by mere mortals? Thanks, Joanne
>
>----------
>From: 	tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com[SMTP:tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com]
>Sent: 	Thursday, May 30, 1996 10:34 AM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: Wind noise
>
>> > Yes the gaskets are replaceable.  I will be replacing all my door gaskets
>>and
>> t-top gaskets sometime early this summer.  If there is enough interest, I
>>have
>> access to a digital camera at work & could make a pictoral FAQ for how to
>> change t-top and door gaskets (prep work, etc.).  I'll even make the
>>mistakes
>> first and bungle things once or twice to save you all the trouble!  :)
>> 
>
>Yes!  Please do this.  I'm re-claiming my '85 Salon from my parents shed this
>fall and will be replacing the driver side door and all door and T-top seals.
>This kind of pictoral faq would be great.
>
>--Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:49:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Oil stoppers for rockers???

John,
I tried those little clips that go over the spit hole on each rocker, but 
any prolonged running would overwhelm the cheesy Olds oil return system and 
instant fog bank would result when the oil hit the exh. manis. (I assume you 
have already installed that hi-po oil return mod I submitted... Ha Ha). 
 Seroiusly, get an old set of valve covers that fit your engine and cut the 
horizontal top parts out of them.  When installed, they will allow you to 
access the rockers but will stop the oil from getting on the exhaust manis. 
 If your creative, you can build a set with replacable tops (like Chevy guys 
can merely buy) and adjust to your hearts content without disturbing your 
gaskets.
Scott Mullen
'70 442

 ----------
From: a210518
To: mullenrs; oldsmobile
Subject: Oil stoppers for rockers???
Date: Friday, September 27, 1996 2:11PM


I want to set my preload for the lifters while running the engine.
What can I use?  I tried some product called Rocker Stoppers and
they are not designed for my 67 Cutlass 330 rockers.  Any ideas?

All I want is something that wont allow oil to drip on the exhaust
manifold while running.

John  (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:55:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Rechroming Plastic 

It's not a "plating" per se. I read about this in a classic car restoration
magazine. There is a place that does this. a brief synopsis is that it is a
foil which is vacuum ed onto the plastic. I'll dig around and try to find the
magazine, but four moves since I last saw it, it may take some time.

Katana72          It's NOT your Father's Oldsmobile!!!!!!!!!        Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:05:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear view mirror rust 

At 04:52 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Andrew C. Green wrote:
>> 
>> I mean, it's got that Day/Night prismatic thing, too, which I have
>> _never_ understood.  :-)  
>
>I believe it's due to a bevel cut of the glass.  "Day" you're looking 
>though the glass at the rear (silver) surface, "Night" you're looking at 
>the front surface of the glass (with the silver surface tilted away).
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick

This was addressed recently on sci.optics in a thread that went on for
weeks.  Mike's not far off.

The main silvered surface of the glass is in the back of the assembly and in
strong light, it will dominate.  Supossedly (and this makes sense), the
assembly has two pieces of glass that are wedge shapes, glued together.  The
interface between the the two wedges gives the reflective surface for night
use.  The refelction is weaker than that of the silvered back, so it apears
dimmer (and is).  This same effect can be seen on regular pane glass
windows, where you get one reflection from the surface closer to you and one
from the other side.  Double paned windows will give four reflections.

The interface acts kind of like a half-silvered mirror (transmits and
reflects some proportional amount of light; not necessarily 50/50).  At
night, when a car approaches from the rear, you can still see the the strong
reflection of the back surface either above or below your eyes, depending on
how you've adjusted the mirror.  In the day, if you look directly into the
mirror, you can see a tell-tale of the secondary image from the night setting.

I didn't do a very good job of explaining this, but I can have another go at
it, if the list is interested.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:05:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

At 01:04 PM 9/27/96 -0300, Andrew wrote:

>Also the term "vacuum deposition" has been rattling around in my head
>(many other things do, too, but that is another topic), although I
>cannot see how a vacuum is any more likely to make the shiny stuff
>stick to the plastic.
>
>Andrew C. Green

I read a description of a process a long while back that might be this one.
Though my recollection is a bit fuzzy, here's what I remember.

Basically, the parts to be metallized are cleaned and prepped, then placed
in a vacuum chamber with a small amount of metal (finely divided or solid or
whatever, I don't remember) around some form of explosive.  A vacuum is
pulled in the chamber and the explosive is set off, vaporizing the metal
which spreads all over everything in the chamber (line of sight and whatever
might manage to be deflected around a corner).  If successfully done, the
metal sticks to the object on its own, then, when the vacuum is released,
the force of the air pressure around the object helps it to stick, too.  Or,
if you prefer, the metal sucks onto the object.  Almost like sucking the air
out of a soda bottle, then sticking your tongue in the bottle.  What fun!

Hell, the above could be way off of what the metalizers are really doing,
but there's another stab at it.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:05:22 -0300
Subject: re: Plastic Chrome 

At 04:20 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I have seen an ad in Hemmings dealing with this. The process is called vacuum
>plating. I have no idea how it works but it is the same process used for the 
>chrome on model car kits. Look for the ad in the "services" section. Hemmings
>on line does not show the ad so you will have to get a copy of the magazine.
>
>Dave Wyatt 70 4-4-2

Interesting thought.

Furhter to my last message, I was watchng "Furniture to Go" one day and they
showed the resilvering of a mirror.  It was basically remove the old finish
with a chemical stripper, make the glass clean, clean, clean, wash in
deionized water, then apply some other chemical in steps to build up an
aluminum finish.  Dry it thoroughly, paint the back to prevent oxidation and
voila!  Kinda like that electroless copper deposition I described.

I don't remember if they masked off the front of the glass or not.  I'll pay
closer attention next time I see that episode.

BTW, all the chemicals involved are hazardous to health and environment, so
don't try this at home.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:05:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

At 02:31 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I wrote to one of the companies that advertised in Hemmings a couple of 
>years ago about this... called Mr. G's I think. Seems to me that they 
>sent a good description of what they do in the material they sent me, 
>which is at home. I'll take a look tonight and post what I find here.
>
>I can tell you that it isn't cheap. I was interested in plastic chroming 
>the pair of armrest bases in my '64, and it would have been over $100 as 
>I recollect. They are now painted chrome silver... not as good but much 
>cheaper!
>
>Greg Beaulieu

Greg, do post a synopsis of the literature, if you would.  I'd like to know
better how this works.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:05:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

At 05:03 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Andrew C. Green wrote:
>> 
>> what I mean is that I thought the process of getting chrome on
>> plastic, what we're talking about here, is different from the
>> process of getting chrome on metal, such as on a bumper. 
>
>Certainly some variation.  Plating, I believe, is a type of electrolysis 
>with implies conduction.  I suspect the plastic (a non-conductor) must be 
>coated with some type of conductive goop before it can be plated.
>
>Spud?  Any ideas?
>
>Michael R. Frederick

The process for metallic plating of polymers was developed or perfected in
England (the same country that gave the world the magnetron), to the best of
my recollection.  I'm guessing that the process is similar to that used for
printed circuit boards.

With circuit boards, the blank laminate is cleaned and prepped in some
magical solutions.  One of these solutions leaves the board coated with
something that attract copper to the laminate, followed by dipping for a
time in a bath that contains some form of copper-salt, or some such.  The
process is called electroless coppper deposition, since it's predominately
chemical and no electrcitity is used to make the copper stick, other than
maybe to heat the solutions.

After the copper is electroless deposited, the boards can be further cleaned
and prepped and have actual electroplating done.

That's about it.  A little research could probably yield the actual
processes involved.

I wonder if they used nickle, instead of chromium?  Ah, well, it's a shiny,
whitish finish and that's what counts.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:10:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Plastic Chrome 

At 03:57 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>          The process is called "vacuum deposited aluminum".  Basicly 
>          molten aluminum is evaporated in a vacuum and condenses onto 
>          the plastic part, producing the shiny surface.  As others 
>          have noted, normal "chrome" plating involves electrochemical 
>          deposition, which is not possible with non-conductive 
>          plastic.
>          
>          Joe Padavano

So they melt the aluminum in the vacuum chamber?  I guess they must get it
really hot first, then pull the vacuum, then melt it.  Hmmm.  Can you 
elaborate?


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:11:30 -0300
Subject: Salon weight

Hey guys,

	Thanks for clearing that up.  I had always thought that was the total 
weight.

Steve

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:31:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear view mirror rust

Spud wrote:
> 
> The interface between the the two wedges gives the reflective surface 
> for night use.  

Makes sense.  I wasn't sure if one or two wedgies were involved.

> The interface acts kind of like a half-silvered mirror (transmits and
> reflects some proportional amount of light; not necessarily 50/50).

A similar method was use in the Canon Pelix SLR manufacturered in the 
early 70s.  It had a mirror that was semi-reflective and didn't move.

Thanks, Spud.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:24:47 -0300 
Subject: RE[3]: olds.history # or e-mail address?

  As far as I know, there is no email address for the History Center. 
> When you call them, please ask them for an email address and share it with 
>all of us.  
>When I get time, I want to find an email address for somebody in the bowels 
>of Olds engineering.  Wouldn't it be great to get some of those retired Olds 
>engineers involved in this page?  Think of all of the inside poop they could 
>provide.  Anybody know any names?  All I know about GM engineers is Delorean 
>and the GTO.  Who was/were the leading Olds engineer(s) from the muscle car 
>era?  Given a name, a phone number can follow, then an email address.... 
> What do all of you think?
>Scott Mullen

Scott, and ALL:
     When I joined the 442 Club of America back in 1986 (you do remember the
442 Club don't you?) I met a guy in the Puget Sound region (Seattle) who used
to work on the assembly line for Oldsmobile for (I think) 8 or 9 years.. He had
some great insite on build sheets, Why things were the way they were (from the
shop's point of view-not Engr.)and so on. He's still living here (Graham,Wa.)
last I heard- He also collects convertibles
     I think his name was Merril Stevenson(Severson? it's been 10 long years ya
know.) Anyway, might not mean much to you guys-I'm sure somebody worked on the
line at Olds and is on here-right? Just my .02 worth.
     As a last little "tidbit" of info -the President of the 442 club used to
be Peter Harriet with a '70 W-30 and lived 30 miles North of Seattle and the
Vice-President lived in Seattle also--I don't know how much they knew about
Olds but maybe contacting them might do some good?? then again maybe they just
owned nice cars and had a lot of money without too much knowedge !!
See Ya,
Rob Malland '73-442
Tacoma, Wa 

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:54:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Aha! If it is 7qts.... 

In a message dated 96-09-27 10:30:55 EDT, you write:

<< I'm not sure if it is a Toro pan though, since I put Mondello's (made by 
 Moroso, I think) 7 qt oiling system (6 in the pan, high volume/pressure pump

 with the macho size pick-up tube)on my 455 and I seem to have lost my 
 original 4 qt pan.  I have no pan for reference.  It's possible that the 
 engine was not out of the Toro, so can you or anybody out there give me the 
 part number for the Toro pan and let me know where the number is stamped on 
 the pan?  Also, he didn't know the year of the Toro.  Could have been a 425.

  Did they have the big pan?  Same part #?  I know of a junkyard in upstate 
 NY that had 3 or 4  1972 Toros sitting in it.  They have engines in them (GA

 heads), but the pans look really weird.  They certainly don't look like the 
 one I have, so I never bothered to get them.  Are they 5 qt. pans?? >>

On a toronodo pan, look for two humps. The center has a valley to allow 
the transaxles of the toro to pass through.  So actually the toro pan is 5qt
with
one in the filter and the regular pan is 4qt with one in the filter.  Also
inside the
toro pan is two baffles welded . 425 pans are the same as 455's in toros.
The 350,400,403,425,455,260 and 307 rear wheel drive pans are the same.
Diesels are also 4qts with one in filter and two in oil cooler.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:00:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Question

The Viking wrote:
> 
> Having replaced the standard gage package with a rally package I cleaned
> up the cover with 3M Plastic Cleaner and a buffing wheel as it was badly
> scratched.  Now it is so shiny it acts as a mirror and it is very
> difficult to see the gages through the reflection.  Does anyone have any
> ideas for a non-reflective coating (perhaps a window film of some type).
> BTW the 3M product was execellent (too excellent). Thanks for your help.
> 
> AL
> 
>Viking,

Consider 'polishing' it again w/a more abrasive polish to knock down the 
shine.  Even tooth paste is good.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:25:31 -0300
Subject: Re: olds.history # or e-mail address?

>=20
> We talked about this a few months ago. I remember that Chris Witt had
> been talking to one of the retired Olds guys who had been involved with
> designing the Rocket V-8. We never did track him down again. But I stil=
l
> wonder about that... one of the development engineers from the '60s, wh=
o
> was involved in getting those cars ready for production or whatever,
> would make an incredible addition to the list. Guess we just need to ke=
ep
> beating the drum about this place...
>=20
> Greg

Greg,

I remember that guy.  He's the one that did the work on my turbo=20
Jetfire.  That car is so poorly engineered that I have to take the hood=20
off to adjust the carburetor.  No wonder he wouldn't show his face.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:18:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome

Spud wrote:
>=20
> At 05:03 PM 9/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Andrew C. Green wrote:
> >>
> >> what I mean is that I thought the process of getting chrome on
> >> plastic, what we're talking about here, is different from the
> >> process of getting chrome on metal, such as on a bumper.
> >
> >Certainly some variation.=20
>=20
> After the copper is electroless deposited, the boards can be further cl=
eaned
> and prepped and have actual electroplating done.
>=20
> That's about it.  A little research could probably yield the actual
> processes involved.
>=20
> I wonder if they used nickle, instead of chromium?  Ah, well, it's a sh=
iny,
> whitish finish and that's what counts.
>=20
> Spud    =20


Spud,

I believe that the metal is aluminum.  That is why it is so easily=20
scratched.  The best jobs are then sprayed w/laquer for protection. =20
Even this is not too great.  The amount put on gear shift & turn light=20
knobs seems much thicker than instrument panels & armrest panels.

Plastic can be plated if it is treated right as a body man friend made a=20
mould of a '55 T'Bird bumper guard, cast a part in polyester resin=20
(Bondo), & had the part plated.  It sure looked like a '5 T'Bird bumper=20
guard & was put on a car.  I hope there never was a parking lot bump.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  After tomorrow night, I have to get off the list as I will be=20
working in Memphis, TN.  I don't know how long it will be before I can=20
get re en listed.  Nothing is definite except the job.
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:40:59 -0300
Subject: CCR Fall Show - Oct 6, 1996

Hello Oldsmobilers!!!

I know this came out at leasr 3 times before, but here it is again.  {Mainly 
for
the newbies on the list}
THIS IS THE LAST TIME, PROMISE!

The Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America will be
having our
8th Annual All-Oldsmobile Fall Show on Sunday October 6, 1996 @ Templeton
Oldsmobile
in Vienna, VA featuring:
  
o  OCA judging w/ awards
o  FREE T-shirt, dash plaque and goodie bag for each entry. (Goodie Bag 
Stuffers
    - Oldsmobile Division	 - Mobil 1 Racing
    - Fusick Automotive	 - Edelbrock
    - The Wax Shop		 - Olds Parts USA
    - Auto Custom Carpets 	 - Western Auto Parts America
    - STP/Son of a Gun	 - JB Weld
    - Steele Rubber		 - Stencils & Stripes and others)
o  Oldies 100 WBIG to supply the tunes.
o  Food vendor for your heart clogging needs with breakfast & lunch
o  Parts Department open w/ discounts on all cash & check purchases
o  Great door prizes to be given away all day. (Prizes from Templeton Olds, 
K&N Engineering,  Auto Custom Carpets, Olds Parts USA, Mothers, 
Edelbrock, Stencils & Stripes, Apple Hydraulics and others)

Registration $12 first car, $5 each additional car
PRE-1949 Oldsmobiles & spectators are free !!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PRE-REGISTRATION ENDS SEPTEMBER 21 !!!!!
(past)

Gates open @ 9AM, judging starts @ 12PM,  
awards as soon as judging is completed (3PM???)

For more info or a registration form, e-mail me.


 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 88 LSS (soon!!!)
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:40:57 -0300
Subject: MD Olds Club Meeting

The "first" meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on
Oct 20 at my house in Perry Hall, MD, Just north of Baltimore and
east of Towson.  Anyone interested in joining, e-mail me and I'll
send directions and my phone#.

Watch the Ravens, eat pizza, drink beer & soda, talk Oldsmobiles

Life is good.

 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 88 LSS (Sunday Afternoon!!!)
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:47:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

Bill
Thanks for your many contributions! Hope we see you back here soon.
cf

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:33:52 -0300
Subject: Re: interior pieces-parts for a 1969 98

Tiny,
Do you live in Texas? Seems you were at our zone car show last month. Let me 
know.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:35:03 -0300
Subject: Olds Contact List/Time to fill out the form

Well it seems like I've got things covered with generating the list for 
now.  Bryceman, I may take you up on that offer later, but for now, 
everything seems to be going fine I only have about 60k or so to use 
for this so I may need some of your space eventually.  I've arranged the 
list in what seems like a good logical order to me.  I'm still working on a 
few things, but you can see what I have so far.  I'm giving every individual 
person a small (very small) page with their info. on it, and keeping a main 
index that links to all of the individual pages.  I've had about 10 or 15 
people already fill out the form, and their info. is already posted.  I'm 
now calling on everybody to begin filling out the form so that I can 
compile everything and get this thing up and running.  Again, the form is 
at "http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/oldsmembers.html".  The main 
index of the contact list (what I've gotten together so far) is at 
"http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html"
If anybody wants to have anything added to what they've already sent me, 
or if there are any errors, e-mail me personally.  Also I'll be adding a 
new secition at the bottom of the form where you can leave the URL of 
your personal web page if you have one.  If there are pictures of any of 
your cars online that I can link to, include the URL's of the pictures in 
the "autos" section.

'Nuff for now,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

Lucille		'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl) 
Rover		'80 Rover 3500 (215 (3.5l) EFI V8)
"The Bomb"	'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:43:07 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 Club in Dallas, Texas???

John,
There isn't a 442 club in Dallas, but there is the North Texas Chapter of the 
Oldsmobile Club of America. Call me and I'll tell you more.

Art Fuller - Chapter Rep.
(817) 572-2924 (metro) or E mail me at:
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Twente8@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:52:43 -0300
Subject: No Subject 

Unsubscribe Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:52:16 -0300
Subject: contact list, etc, oops

Well, my server seems to be frying it's wires toinight (the one that the 
form is on, not the one that the contact list is on.  Maybe it'll be 
working tomorrow.  If you do find that the form is working later tonight, 
then note that I haven't been able to add the spot for a URL for a 
personal home page yet.  You can e-mail it to me if it's not on the form 
when you use it.

Also, I just realized, that was supposed to be "600" kb not "60" kb that 
I have available for the list :-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:58:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Question

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> The Viking wrote:
> >
> > Having replaced the standard gage package with a rally package I cleaned
> > up the cover with 3M Plastic Cleaner and a buffing wheel as it was badly
> > scratched.  Now it is so shiny it acts as a mirror and it is very
> > difficult to see the gages through the reflection.  Does anyone have any
> > ideas for a non-reflective coating (perhaps a window film of some type).
> > BTW the 3M product was execellent (too excellent). Thanks for your help.
> >
> > AL
> >
> >Viking,
> 
> Consider 'polishing' it again w/a more abrasive polish to knock down the
> shine.  Even tooth paste is good.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

Cigarette ash.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:05:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Contact List: Suggestion

Clayton,

You might want to use the "Mailto:" tag on the email addresses.  That way 
people can click on the link without having to note the address to send a 
message.  See the HTML at http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/tororegs.html if 
you want an example.

Keep up the good work,

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:02:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Contact List/Time to fill out the form

Clayton,

Looks pretty good, dude.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:39:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome 

At 02:18 PM 9/27/96 -0300, Bill Culp wrote:
>Spud wrote:

>> I wonder if they used nickle, instead of chromium?  Ah, well, it's a shiny,
>> whitish finish and that's what counts.
>> 
>> Spud     

>Spud,
>
>I believe that the metal is aluminum.  That is why it is so easily 
>scratched.  The best jobs are then sprayed w/laquer for protection.  
>Even this is not too great.  The amount put on gear shift & turn light 
>knobs seems much thicker than instrument panels & armrest panels.

>
>Bill Culp

Could be aluminum, but I'm not certain of that.  Aluminum has the bad
manners to oxidize instantlly in air, creating an oxide layer that grows
thicker, up to a point, with time.  Polished aluminum does look pretty good
for a little while, though, despite the habit of oxidizing, and laquering
substantially slows the oxidation process.

Also, the metal that came off the parts I've had wear out was quite brittle,
so if that's aluminum, it must be an alloy.  Does anyone know if alloys can
be plated, or must it only be a pure metallic deposition?


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:24:44 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio # 

In a message dated 96-09-27 06:20:02 EDT, you write:

> > Mine (1968 442 convertible) has an AM/FM mono wonderbar in it. It is 
>  > original.
>  
>  You mean one with signal-seeking? I'm pretty sure my literature says that
>  was only available in big cars in '68... though that doesn't mean much
>  from past experience. Can you confirm? 
>  

According to my sales books, the A-body cars had U69 AM/FM radio, $133.76.
 88s, Ninety Eights and Toronados had U59 AM/FM Signal Seeker Tuning radio,
173.78.

Paul

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:58:12 -0300
Subject: DMV Info 

Greg B. wrote:

... "say, Martha,
can you do a little query for me? Year 1971, make Oldsmobile, model 442,
body style convertible... list their locations and owner names and phone
numbers for me, will you?" 

Of course, I would *never* abuse my position like that... wouldn't be 
prudent... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

*******************

Greg, you can do exactly that in Florida.  The info in the motor vehicle
registry is available for -are you ready - 1 cent=#.01/name address.

For our upcoming show we have two lists.  One for pre '64 and one for 64-72.
 The former has about 300 names and addresses and year of Olds, the latter
came in with over 7,000 hits.  As long as you don't keep your Olds at the
beach, cars last pretty well down here.  At the beach they rot as bad as
anything the road crews up North can throw at you.

We requested these listings to target owners for our OCA Chapter and annual
show.  The Club will send out the invites for the older cars.  GM Restoration
Parts has offered to do the mailing for the newer models.

So, your dream is available for minimal expense in FL.

Of personal interest to me was that all my first choices for a vanity plate
were taken.  These include 67 W-30, W-30 67.  I was surprised that there were
two possibly two other '67 W-30s in FL.  Someday I may write the owners.

So Greg, you want me to peruse the list and find all the '71 Cutlass'442's?

Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Handren Associates, Inc.             Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs, 
Laser & Optical Radiation Safety  (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:19:54 -0300
Subject: Re: DMV Info 

> So Greg, you want me to peruse the list and find all the '71 Cutlass'442's?
> 
> Bob Handren                               OCA# 7728
> '67 W-30 Modified                        '70 SX Convertible

Well Bob,

If you ever look up '70 98 Convertibles, I'd sure like to know
what you find.  You will find me on the list, as my registration
is in Florida (Indialantic).

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:26:07 -0300
Subject: Re: stereo radio # 

In a message dated 96-09-26 22:37:29 EDT, you write:

> Can anybody tell me the part number of a 68 am/fm cutlass radio? Or, can 
> anybody 
>  tell me what radio, part number 7311583 fits? My parts book does not have 
> radios 
>  beyond '72.
>  Thanks
>  
>  Art Fuller
>  

Art,

I have a radio chart from the Feb '92 issue of JWO.  The part number for a
'68 F-85 AM/FM monaural radio is 7302023.  No stereo or Wonderbar was
available in the F-85 in '68 according to the chart.  7311583 is not a good
number on this chart, but it's possible that there is a part number change
somewhere.  Numbers were like this for radios from '65 thru '68.  Pre '65
numbers were 989387 for example.  '69 and up number were like 93AFM1.

Hope this helps.

Paul

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:46:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Question

Watch it Bill, the toothpaste is getting pretty close. Aren't these gauge 
lenses 
available new for a pretty reasonable cost?

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:39:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up!

buehner wrote:
> 
> >buehner wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, I finally got the Head Up Display (HUD) in the Rockit today.
> >
> >You retrofitted it?  WAY cool!  What did this run ya?
> >
>      I've answered this a couple times personally, so I'll take advantage of
> Micro$oft's cut 'n' paste :)
> 
> 
> 
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>       Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>       Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>       "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

Charley,

I like the whole idea.  Maybe I'll be able to buy a car w/this as 
regular equipment.  Heck, I can't even make this computer spell anything 
let alone get it to do something tricky.  You should be proud of 
something like that.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  I've got a 455 Buick GS that should be back from the paint shop 
soon.  Could I put a HUD in that?

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:07:16 -0300
Subject: cool liscense plates(not really olds related) 

Picked up some liscense plates for the Vista-Cruiser yesterday from an
antique shop.  Black 1972 Virginia plates.  I actually went in looking for
plates for dad's `28 ford.  The man must have about 50 sets (that I could
see) of plates of various years and eastern states in the shop.  He even had
a set of `70 (I think)  Virginia plates that were never issued to a
car....Still in the dmv wrapper.  The retired gentleman that runs the shop
collects them.  

I paid $20 for the plates.  I don't know what vintage plates go for but it
seemed fair to me.(Just sorta bought `em on impulse)  Basically the plates
could go on the car as is.  They are bent up some and a little wavy but not
so much that the paint will crack.  The ones on the car now are actually
bent up worse.  Most of the rust on them was just minor surface rust and it
rubbed out with compound.  The worst rust is on the back and would rub out
with the rubbing compound if I was determined enough.  The paint could use a
little touch up on the white raised letters but other than that they look
good. Anyone think I paid too much?  

If someone is lookin for antique liscense plates from Virginia or
surrounding states let me know, I'll check and see what he has. 

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "C. Clements" <clements@cinci.infi.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:02:01 -0300
Subject: Electrical troubleshooting

If this problem sounds familiar to ANYONE out there, please fire
back, feel free to make my life a little easier.
        The car: '68 Olds Cutlass Supreme (4 door sedan, not cool, but i
happen to LOVE IT), 350 engine, 2-speed auto transmission, 78K miles.
        The problem: The car runs and charges fine, but there truly is
something fishy in the electrical system. Slip the car into drive, take 
off,
and the electrical system is dandy, the blinkers blink fast, the lights 
are
bright, etc.
        BUT...tap the brake pedal and everything goes dim slightly. AND
(here's the mystery)...there's a dull clicking sound that seems to be 
coming
from under the dash (or the engine compartment, but it's tough to hear 
it
when I go listening under the hood with the engine running).
        The old lady I bought this car from had some work done on it...a 
new
alternator AND new voltage regulator are present (and, as a bonus, a 
snazzy
rebuilt starter, too!).
        Ideas, places to look and comments are welcome (though any 
comments
about me owning a four-door will be taken in the humor intended). What's 
that
clicking sound? I've looked around quite a bit but can't seem to nail 
it.
        Yes, the alternator belt is nice and tight.
        BRIGHT SIDE: Grandma's Olds proved tonight it runs fine in heavy
rain, more than my Honda ever did. I couldn't get past the econoboxes on 
I-75
fast enough this evening.

Thanks in advance: Chase Clements Jr., Cincinnati OH

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:32:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical troubleshooting 

>If this problem sounds familiar to ANYONE out there, please fire
>back, feel free to make my life a little easier.
>        The car: '68 Olds Cutlass Supreme (4 door sedan, not cool, but i
>happen to LOVE IT), 350 engine, 2-speed auto transmission, 78K miles.
>        The problem: The car runs and charges fine, but there truly is
>something fishy in the electrical system. Slip the car into drive, take 
>off,
>and the electrical system is dandy, the blinkers blink fast, the lights 
>are
>bright, etc.
>        BUT...tap the brake pedal and everything goes dim slightly. AND
>(here's the mystery)...there's a dull clicking sound that seems to be 
>coming
>from under the dash (or the engine compartment, but it's tough to hear 

I'm sorry I can't help you any with the problem but I'm afraid I have the
*identical* condition in mine for awhile now.  I haven't tried to fix it yet
since the car seems to run fine otherwise.  I haven't had the ambition yet
to dive into tracing the problem.  I wonder if the clicking is coming from
some relay that isn't working correctly due to a voltage drop.  I haven't
checked my voltage regulator yet.  

Greg Pruett

`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:00:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Heads Up! 

>
>P.S.  I've got a 455 Buick GS that should be back from the paint shop 
>soon.  Could I put a HUD in that?

     Cool, gotta see that.  You'd have problems with dash space and speed
sensor.  Other than that, it would go right on!  The projector box is fairly
large, tho', and these A bodies don't have much room between the dash and
windshield.  It might project OK from the console, tho.  I'll have to see
pics when you get the car out, tho.  I'm a big Buick fan, too.  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:00:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical troubleshooting 

>>        BUT...tap the brake pedal and everything goes dim slightly. AND
>>(here's the mystery)...there's a dull clicking sound that seems to be 
>>coming
>>from under the dash (or the engine compartment, but it's tough to hear 

     I'm not ~too~ familiar with those cars, but I'll throw out a couple
thoughts to ponder on, anyway.  First off, what are you considerring
"tapping" the pedal?  Is it just enough to turn on the brake lights, or are
you actually applying brake pressure?  Is the car moving at this point, or
running?  Perhaps there is a problem with the brake booster (vacuum induced
clicking noises?)  (I'm trusting that you've determined it is not mechanical
problems from the wheels?)  Maybe try disconnecting the vacuum hose from the
brake booster to see if that changes anything?  Does the car have Cruise
Control?  Pressing the brake affects a vacuum switch on those systems, too.  
     As for going dim, that may well be normal.  All those brake lights in
the back have to light up somehow, and it's not uncommon for them to put a
strain on things.  If the charging system is good, I'd double check all the
connections, and make sure all the grounds are in place (battery to block,
body, and possibly frame)  and clean.  That is a crucial aspect to
maintaining a good charging system.  Also (on this note...) did you know
that ~the~ number one killer of batteries is vibration?  Batteries that
aren't securely mounted down can shake, etc, and have a much lower life
expectancy.  
     The only other noise producing item under the dash I can think of
(Besides power lock relay, if it has one) would be the buzzer for the key
switch/seat belts.  My 81 has fits with that every now and again.  It
actually will click sometimes.  I don't know if the old buzzers had any
succeptibility to that problem, though.  
     If this doesn't give you any clues, we'll try again, but it might help
narrow things down a bit.  There are some missing details that leave a lot
of ambiguity to the problem...   
     Good luck!
     Oh, I just reread the first post.  Four doors can have their cool
points:  Great sleeper potential.  A close friend has a 68 Pontiac Executive
with a 400 that looks like Grandma's junk yard slob.  Kicks ass everywhere,
tho!  Suprises a ~lot~ of people!  Besides, there's nothing wrong with
four-doors, well, except for those other two doors!   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:00:57 -0300
Subject: Does anyone know this guy?  (Mich area) 

That pic I posted yesterday for the 12 sec 307 question got my curiosity
aroused.  (for those that missed, its here: )
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/jackm83.jpg 
The owner's name is Jack McCormack, driven by Don Holben.  I did a net
search and came up with nothing for E-mail for them.  I checked for
addresses for "Tri City Competition services" and came up with addresses in
California and Breckinridge MI.  I searched for addresses for Jack McCormack
and Don Holben in Michigan, and came up with two addresses:  Jack being in
Birch Run Mich, (517)777-8087; and Don from Grand Lodge, Mich.  (517)627-3152.
     The question I have is does anyone here know these people, or from the
area and may bump into either occasionally?  This pic was from a magazine
published in 1984, so it's hard to say what might have transpired.  But, I'm
assuming the names I found belong to the owner and driver of a fairly wild
15th Hurst/Olds, so if anyone in that area gets a chance, it might be
interesting to look these guys up.  It'd sure be neat to talk them into
computers and get them on the list, too.  I've got a feeling there is some
knowledge between them.  Any thoughts?
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:07:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Does anyone know this guy? (Mich area) 

In a message dated 96-09-28 06:03:04 EDT, you write:

<< That pic I posted yesterday for the 12 sec 307 question got my curiosity
 aroused.  (for those that missed, its here: )
 http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/jackm83.jpg 
 The owner's name is Jack McCormack, driven by Don Holben.  I did a net
 search and came up with nothing for E-mail for them.  I checked for
 addresses for "Tri City Competition services" and came up with addresses in
 California and Breckinridge MI.  I searched for addresses for Jack McCormack
 and Don Holben in Michigan, and came up with two addresses:  Jack being in
 Birch Run Mich, (517)777-8087; and Don from Grand Lodge, Mich.
 (517)627-3152.
      The question I have is does anyone here know these people, or from the
 area and may bump into either occasionally?  This pic was from a magazine
 published in 1984, so it's hard to say what might have transpired.  But, I'm
 assuming the names I found belong to the owner and driver of a fairly wild
 15th Hurst/Olds, so if anyone in that area gets a chance, it might be
 interesting to look these guys up.  It'd sure be neat to talk them into
 computers and get them on the list, too.  I've got a feeling there is some
 knowledge between them.  Any thoughts? >>

Well you are in luck.  I have met Jack and Don.  They have a 83 H/O that runs
10's with a 307.  Jack McCormick owns a performance tire store here in
Lincoln
Park, Michingan.  About every 4 years here enters his race car in the Detroit

Autorama, and I have talked to him extensively.  He just opened a second
store
here in MI, so his time is very limited.  The name of  his stores are
Jack McCormick Racing performance tires and rims.  I the next few weeks I 
will be running into old Jack, and I will ask him about  surfing the net.
 Now Jack is 
racing ford Mustangs, due to FoMoCo are giving him the cars.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #314
********************************
 
