To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/11/96 02:32:46 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #361


oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 11 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 361


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:42:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> kiss74@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> > Why are you giving me s**t is it because you dont have anything
better > > to do? > > Sorry.  Haven't any idea what you've gotten off
on but you should be > buying higher quality stuff. > > > I see people
post extremely stupid responses... > > This being one. > > > ... and I
dont say a G** D*** thing about it! > > I notify the Pope to start the
sainthood proceedings. > > > Who do you think you are? > > A 47 year
old long hair hippy grandfather from Tampa with a diamond > earing worth
more than your car.   :) > > > You are an unoriginal f***er. > > And
forwarding your post for the Nobel Prize in Literature. > > > I already
heard "Ah... Ya gotta love this guy." > > Well, you only had to read it
once.  Were the big words a problem? > > > So enough already. > >
Agreed. > > > Jerks! Shut up and drive you 66 "toro". Mikey > > Have a
nice life. > > The 66 Toro and Mike > > Psssst:  We don't REALY love
you. > > -- > Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication >      (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/Mike,


I am not sure what that was all about (kiss74) I mean, but I thought
your response was absolutely professional, and to the point. Shame some
people have minds, which in some cases gives them the idea they can
actually communicate as an upright walking animal. Reggie Goble

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 04:09:57 -0400
Subject: Re: I bought it!

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> At 11:09 PM 11/9/96 -0500, you wrote:
> >I took the wife with me to Concord this AM and begged her
appropriately > >so I am now the proud owner of the 83 Calias w/t-tops
and the 403. > > Congrats! As long as the tranny holds up, you'll have
one nice ride! > > >What is the orginal color of the 403?? the one in
this car is ugly. Not > >sure I can describe the color. > > The
original color should be "corporate blue"; not all that special. > >
----------- > - Bob Barry > - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme
SX (the 455 big-block boys) > - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds
SMALL-block powered!)

Bob,
   Hello, I'm Reggie Goble. Just wanted some help with engine
compartment detail. I see you have a 69 Toronado. I had an engine
rebuild and the guy painted the whole thing "basic black" and I
don't(can't) remember the color scheme of block, head, valve covers,
breather etc. If you have a minute what are the correct colors. I sure
do enjoy driving this Toro, one of the best I've ever had. How is your
Toro these days? Tomorrow I gotta seal the windshield and try to find a
heavy gas smell at highway speeds. Its not a well problem (hope not).
Thanks in advance. Reggie Goble 69 Toronado jgoble@nishanet.com

------------------------------

From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:09:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Edelbrock "Victor" Olds Intake 4 sale

Yes I'd like more info on the  heads and intake please.


Chris Urban
69 442
72 HO

- ----------
> From: wolskmj@texaco.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Edelbrock "Victor" Olds Intake 4 sale
> Date: Sunday, November 10, 1996 6:39 AM
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
> OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> For Sale:
>
> Edelbrock "Victor" Intake for Small Block Oldsmobile &
> Batten heads - Brand new. Never used. $220 new.
> Sacrifice $75 + shipping & COD.
> --
>
>                                       Regards,
>
>                                               Michael J. Wolski
>
>                                               ISSC UNIX Support
>                                               Texaco Acct @ THP
>
>                                             Internal: wolskmj@thp
>
>                                      Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
>                                     Alternate: wolskmj@cyberspace.org
>                             Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
>       `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
>        friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 03:24:02 -0400
Subject: re:Watta_day

Thanks fellas for the response to Watta_day:

Greg:

> I'm confused on the Cutlass heater vac switch. I checked my parts book
 > and can't find a specific switch that sounds like what you've
described. > Can you give a little more detail as to what exactly it is
and/or is > there a part # stamped on it?

The Cutlass section on the Air Conditioner of the 67 Olds Service Manual
has a near useless drawing in Fig 1C-125 on p1C-72 but the full size
section has lots of detail. Fig 1B-98 on page 1B-52 has a schematic
showing the Water Valve on the inlet hose line. The pipe goes into the
block vertically behind the carb and there is a vacuum diaphragm
mounted on the side and top of it. The vacuum line goes through the
bulkhead into the controls. Fig 1B-99 is a blowup of the Water Valve
alone.

> As for the wagon's coolant leak, is it possible it might be an intake
> manifold leak instead of a head gasket? I've heard of problems on that
 > vintage 307 with them. Apparently there is a bimetellic corrosion
issue > there. It might explain the leak and be a lot less of a job to
fix than > the head gasket theory.

What is it with GM? My 72 GS 455 has a water pump and timing cover
hogged out of aluminum bolted on the front of the motor. The damned
things can cost as much as $500 (mine was 'only' $385) and the
bimetallic corrosion means you have to be very careful when removing
the bolts.

I knew the Hurst Hi Perf 307 had an aluminum manifold, but never in my
wildest dreams did I think GM would have put it on mainstream models.

>                        I know about thinking you might have a cracked
> head or block - my mind works the exact same way when something goes
> wrong, I always jump to the worst-case conclusion. But hopefully
that's > not the issue here.

Yeah, I think I was still hyper from the Yosemite effect. My mind went
straight to the worst possible situation. Plus, I must confess to having
 regular day dreams when driving the wagon of performing heart surgery
with a 455 to get some oomph.

Chuck:

> Your first blown head gasket? Seems like that is my commonest major
problem. > They can go fast or they can go slow. Sounds like you caught
yours > immediately after it blew. Shouldn't have any ill effects on
heads or block > unless the car is driven for a while after the gasket
is gone.

There was no reason other than pure luck to look at the wagon. If the
Cutlass had gone well, I might never have bothered with the wagon so
maybe I should be feeling lucky.

Christian:

> Re starting your 67 cutlass in neutral, I'd be amazed if your mechanic
was > right that there's no way to start these cars in neutral. I have a
66 98 > and the switch (located at the bottom of the steering column)
works in > both Park and Neutral. I'd be amazed if Olds decided to do
something > diff'rentin the A bodies.

That makes me feel better, I'd have bet money that the cars started in
Neutral as well as Park until the mechanic came up with his story.
Bummer is that he is a specialist in older cars, and restored them for
a company in town until it went under. Looks like I try another one.

Kevin:

> What happens when the vacuum line to that heater water valve is
disconnected?

No flow then either. That's what convinced me that the switch was shot.

> I agree with Greg here.  1985-90 Code Y 307's had aluminum intake
> manifolds.  These models are known for corrosion problems around the
water > passages where the intake meets the heads.  GM even has a
service bulletin > regarding this issue.

Unbelievable. Talk about shipping failures waiting to happen. Weird as
it may seem, you and Greg have actually got me feeling almost cheerful
about the situation.

Was it earlier or later models that came with a cast iron manifold? If
it is the intake manifold, no way do I want to put on an aluminum
replacement. There are enough mid-80s cars in the yards around here I
ought to be able to find one without any trouble.

Any idea what the Service Bulletin number is? I'd like to track that
down.

> A few years ago, my '77 Custom Cruiser friend was searching for a rear
> stabilizer bar, and could only find a listing for '77 Chev wagons.
> Perhaps your '78 had a sedan rear axle swapped in (it will fit).

I bought it new, came from the factory with the bar. I'd ordered
everything in the book that mentioned heavy duty. The springs were
stiffer than other wagons (we never had that wave motion from soft
suspension). Maybe GM never sold very many with HD everything. When I
locate a sway bar, the springs will get replaced at the same time,
although I've got a friend who wants to talk me into just using air
lift bags.

> I spoke to someone with a '92 Custom Cruiser.  He managed to find one
from: > > Addco Industries, Inc.

I'll have to try again. Addco was my first call after the dealer but
they told me there was nothing for the full size wagon. You've got me
curious about where the bar would go if it doesn't attach to the rear
control arms.

Bob Barry:

> Or quite possibly a warped head, which allowed the gasket to blow. In
that > case, resurfacing the head should solve the problem.

That was my son's first thought, but 85,000 miles is a long time for a
warped head not to cause problems.

> That would depend upon how stringent they are for checking numbers.
Don't > use the 307's heads, though; do it right and use some 7a heads
from a '72 > 350. That will be the same combination of numbers and
letters on your 307's > heads; only the spacing would be different, so
an inspector shouldn't be > able to tell the difference.

Ah, that appeals to me. I was only using the heads to keep the numbers
the same. The Inspection Stations are supposed to check numbers but the
block is nearly impossible whereas the head numbers are easy to see.

Dave Paulison:

Didn't mean to be so vague about the transmission, it is a 2-speed on
the floor inside that shorty console that was used in 67 and 68.

The Service Manual is useless on this point. The only reference is Fig
7-338 which breaks out the console and shows the Neutral Start and
Backup Lamp Switch. Nowhere is there any text about interlocks at
starting or any clues on adjustments that can be made.

Cliff:

> It's a neutral starting switch, why wouldn't it start in neutral?

That was my question!

> I think your wrench was strangely trained.

Trained by GM in the early 60's, and has been a fount of information on
other odd bits 'n pieces. He worked at the local Buick dealer in the
late 60's and was on the dealer racing team (they ran Stage 1 GSs and
kicked butt according to the scrap book).

Roger:

> My step father's 86 Custom Cruiser with engine code "Y" 307 has had 3
water > pumps and 2 radiators.  The latest we got was a 3 row core.  We
almost nuked > our engine too when the first radiator let go.  The fins
went to pot.  This > was at about 100,000 miles.  I'd drop a radiator
in your wagon.

Wow! Your experiences are unreal. No car with regular anti-freeze
changes should give that kind of a failure rate.

This car has always had a 3-row, came that way from the factory. It is
still the original and shows no sign of corrosion buildup at all. When
you shine a flashlight down the inside of the radiator, there is no
crud to be seen anywhere.

Greg:

I was thinking about your radiator core when fiddling with the Cutlass.

Nice work on getting access to the core, and congratulations on coming
up with such an innovative way of removing the inner fender. It amazes
me that you found no rust problems considering the stories told about
your part of the country.

If you cannot find another core of the same size, try a radiator shop.
You might be surprised at what a cleaning bath can do to your old one.


Being on the digest, everyone's reply came to me at once.

Thanks all, and I'll keep you tuned on progress. It may have to wait a
week to get to the garage, there are five all-day meetings this week
according to my calendar.

Dal

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:51:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Chevy vs Olds

At 08:46 PM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-11-08 22:48:51 EST, you write:
>
>> I know that the (80's RWD)US Cutlases had 307's for the most part,
and >>  Monte Carlos had 305's, but what about the Regals and Grand
Prixs?  Just >>  curious! > >In '81, Regals, Centurys, Grand Prixs and
LeMans(s) had an optional 265 >produced by Pontiac.  Monte Carlos and
Malibus had an optional 267 produced >by Chevrolet and GM of Canada in
the 49 states and an optional 305 in >California only, also produced by
Chevrolet and GM of Canada.  We should all >know that Cutlasses had two
optional V8s, the 260 and the 307. > >Paul > > > I think you've missed
a Cutlass V8, don't forget the forgettable, '81's still had a diesel!

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds
1979 Olds
1931 Olds
1931 Olds

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

At 10:55 PM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-11-06 13:03:35 EST, you write:
>
><< >I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
> >on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
> >booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
> >the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
> >diesel trains, etc.
>
> I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
> locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
> to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.
>> > >It is LaGrange.......  At least that's the address our company
uses when it >sends tools to them. > >Chris Ruper. > > > With this
interest in the EMD division, I thought I would share a bit of GM
trivia.  In the early days of diesel locomotives, EMD put the prime
movers into a locomotive for the G.M.& O., no not General Motors, but
the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio Railroad.  The locomotive was part of a special
stainless steel unit passenger train that ran between Chicago and Saint
Louis, I think the train was called the Zephyr, but of that I'm not
precisely sure.  I think the power unit may be in the collection of
Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry; anyone up on their accessions?

They also put a rather extensive collection of spare parts and an
engineering/mechanical team to ride the train on every trip.  They were
quite serious about debugging their power plants!  The train would often
limp in with just one motor running, at least it had two.  If the
locomotive would break down enroute, the e/m team would dismantle the
motors on the spot attempt to locate and rectify the problem, and get
the train moving again.

Such attention to detail, and EMDs assembly line nature of production
would give GM a large share of diesel locomotive production.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 w/455
1979 Olds Delta 88 w/diesel
1931 Olds Patrician Sedan
1931 Olds 4-door

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:53:29 -0400
Subject: RE: (1964 Luxury Sedan - seeking info)

<..snip..>
> Esko, isn't that your car?

> Yeah, there's a guy in Finland with one, but you'll have to pay the
airfare > for him to help you on any repairs... ;)<..snip..>

Yes, it is basically the same, although the luxury sedan has 6 side
windows instead of the four that my Holiday Sports sedan has.

To get info for your vechile, contact Anthony's autobooks. That was the
place I ordered my shop manual from. It is a copy but it has the
information and it is the information you are seeking,  right ?

I can check the producing figures for your vechile from the BIG bible of
oldsmobiles I have at home. One thing I'm sure of is that your car was
not produced in big amounts.

Mine, which was the most popular of the 98-series in that year had a
production figure of 22000 (sorry if my memory is leaking). It is the
only 98 from that year in Finland.

If you have any urgent questions, don't hesitate to ask, I might answer.

Please, put at least the year (1964) in the subject line so I will read
it.

I generally trash messages that have a subject that seems uninteresting.
Sorry guys :(. Just don't have the time to read through all the
messages).

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:00:13 -0400
Subject: RE: Rust repair

<..snip..>
> Bondo?  Fiberglass?  I've had some experience using Bondo, but never
used > fiberglass before.  Which will give a neater finished job?  I've
seen > fiberglass repairs that really look like crap, all nasty and
bulging.  I've > seen (and done) bondo repairs that, well, you almost
couldn't see.  But > fiberglass seems more durable.  Can it look
decent?<..snip..>

I thought that you could use them both. Bondo for the surface and
fiberclass supporting it.

If you can reach the holes from under, you could put fiberclass there
and finish the outside using bondo.

I never used Bondo but it that stuff is what I think it is, it is not
perfect for repairing holes.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 12:03 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 02:32 PM 11/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car
production, even >>>>though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why
didn't they use this >>>>early V8 for their auto production?  What year
did they finally get around >>>>to using one? >>> >>>I was going to say
Chevy, but they put their early V-8 in their cars. Was it
>>>Pontiac[Oakland], who used a version of a V-8 in a truck? >>> >>Good
guesses all. Chevrolet had a V8 in 1917-1918, Pontiac in 1932, Oakland
>>discontinued production in 1931, in favor of the Pontiac, and had a V8
in >>their cars at before they ended.  Also the clue in the question
about >>building a V8 during WWI would automatically eliminate Pontiac
that didn't >>begin life until they began producing their 1927 models
late in 1926. > >OK, I thought there might be a trick answer with that
Pontiac (I did know >that there was no Pontiac in WWI, and that Oakland
had one at that time, and >since Oakland kinda evolved into Pontiac I
thought...); It'd be Buick, then, >who didn't produce a V-8 in a
passenger car until 1954. > >Was the Buick V-8 for aircraft use? >
>----------- >- Bob Barry >- 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme
SX (the 455 big-block boys) >- 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds
SMALL-block powered!) > > > > Very good, yep is was Buick.  However,
their first V8 was inplace in the 1953 model, not the '54; which is
still close enough for my book.  They continued with the straight 8 in
their small series cars in '53, allowing the new V8 to go into their big
cars only.  V8's were utilized throughout their line in '54.

And a perfect response on the V8 of WWI.  Packard was the principal
contractor for the V12 "Liberty" airplane engine; and Buick built the V8
version.  Production was fairly small, as the V12 was the only one
actually used  for airplanes.  I think there was supposed to be a 4, 6,
8, and 12 cylinder version of the Liberty, but again only the V12 went
into series production.  A few years ago a rum runner boat was found
sunk in the Great Lakes and it turned out to be powered by a Buick V8
Liberty.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88/w 455
1979 Oldsmobile Delta 88/w diesel
1931 Oldsmobile Patrician Sedan
1931 Oldsmobile 4-door

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:41:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum

At 03:42 AM 11/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Mike Frederick wrote:
>>
>> kiss74@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>> >
>> > Why are you giving me s**t is it because you dont have anything
better >> > to do? >> >> Sorry.  Haven't any idea what you've gotten
off on but you should be >> buying higher quality stuff. >> >> > I see
people post extremely stupid responses... >> >> This being one. >> >>
> ... and I dont say a G** D*** thing about it! >> >> I notify the Pope
to start the sainthood proceedings. >> >> > Who do you think you are?
>> >> A 47 year old long hair hippy grandfather from Tampa with a
diamond >> earing worth more than your car.   :) >> >> > You are an
unoriginal f***er. >> >> And forwarding your post for the Nobel Prize
in Literature. >> >> > I already heard "Ah... Ya gotta love this guy."
>> >> Well, you only had to read it once.  Were the big words a
problem? >> >> > So enough already. >> >> Agreed. >> >> > Jerks! Shut
up and drive you 66 "toro". Mikey >> >> Have a nice life. >> >> The 66
Toro and Mike >> >> Psssst:  We don't REALY love you. >> >> -- >>
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >>      Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >>      (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/Mike, > > >I am not
sure what that was all about (kiss74) I mean, but I thought your
>response was absolutely professional, and to the point. Shame some
people >have minds, which in some cases gives them the idea they can
actually >communicate as an upright walking animal. >Reggie Goble > > >
Reggies got a close handle on it.  However, I doubt the Nobel prize
committee will give the missives above, much of look.  I think REALY is
really spelled REALLY: with such shoddy production characteristics the
Nobel people will surely be unimpressed.  However try the Pulitzer
people.  They can't spell either, and their prize has some prestige to
it.

Anon

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:52:56 -0400
Subject: My new project!

Well this weekend my wife and I drove home her new car, an Impala SS,
1995. There's 2 good things about this. 1) She originally wanted a
Toyota, I took her to the Olds dealer first but she didn't like anything
there, (she's got a lot of other great attributes even though she
doesn't like any of the new Olds), so at least she got a GM product.
It's pretty impressive for a large car. 2) I'm using it this week to tow
MY new 1968 442 convertible home from 2 hours away. It's all blue inside
and out even the top, mild rust and inoperable engine and trans. Numbers
don't match on the motor, so I'll throw a 455 in there. (Still have that
403 A block sitting on the floor in the garage.) Guy's asking $2500.00,
what do y'all think?? I'll see if I can get him down a bit anyway,
haven't looked at the car yet, so I hope after driving 2 hours pulling a
car trailer it pans out well!! Wish me luck.

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible
1967 Chevy Truck
1985 Chevy Camaro Z28 383
1995 Chevy Impala SS

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:18:19 -0400
Subject: Re: My new project!

Hehehe... another '68! :)  We rule! You are obviously a man of
disciminating taste. Hope it appears as advertised... I saw a white '68
442 convert this summer in Lansing with a blue interior and it looked
incredible. Sounds like a nice project. Dave Paulison has some '68 blue
interior convertible parts too as I recall...

I love those Impala SS beasts too... wish I could afford one but I guess
 I will have to just dream. Nice alternative to a Camry though. Amazing
 how they could take that body and make it look good. The original
couple of years of the big Chevy (91-92) with the semi-skirted rear
fenders had to be the car people had in mind when they coined the term
"butt-ugly" (remember that debate a while back?) ;-). But the SS looks
great! Congrats.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:48:41 -0400
Subject: Re: My new project!

At 08:18 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hehehe... another '68! :)  We rule! You are obviously a man of
>disciminating taste. Hope it appears as advertised... I saw a white '68
 >442 convert this summer in Lansing with a blue interior and it looked
 >incredible. Sounds like a nice project. Dave Paulison has some '68
blue >interior convertible parts too as I recall... > >I love those
Impala SS beasts too... wish I could afford one but I guess
                                    look down here \/
>I will have to just dream. Nice alternative to a Camry though. Amazing
                                  or look up here ^^^^^ looks like
heresy to me >how they could take that body and make it look good. The
original couple >of years of the big Chevy (91-92) with the
semi-skirted rear fenders had >to be the car people had in mind when
they coined the term "butt-ugly" >(remember that debate a while back?)
;-). But the SS looks great! Congrats. > >Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > > > > > A
Camry, when did GM make one of those?  OK you Oldsmobile guys, how come
this isn't heresy too?

Butt ugly?

Have you forgotten the '61 Plymouth, especially the station wagon.
Chevrolet didn't get even close, but I wouldn't trade my '87 Caprice for
a newer one; while they are not as bad as that Ply they are bad... For
you heresy provoking Oldsmobilists, if you read '87 Caprice substitute
'84 Delta 88.  I like them both.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88
1979 Olds Delta 88
1931 Olds Patrician Sedan
1931 Olds 4-door

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:24:00 -0400
Subject: Buick Trivia (Was: Re: Paint (Was: Oil leak))

> From wizkid@inlink.com Fri Nov  8 22:06:07 1996

> For you silver paint lookers, here's a bit of good ole GM trivia:
Buick's > silver anniversary year was 1929, and they produced what must
have been a > silver anniversary model, as it was painted black over
silver, with > vermillion in the reveals.  Wire wheels were painted
argent cream, and wood > wheels were black.  What model was it? >

Y'know, I distinctly remember seeing one of these in my teens, but I
can't remember the model name for anything... it wasn't anything as
mundane as "Roadmaster", was it?



Tim (ex-Owner of a '53 Buick Roadmaster Riviera) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

If it makes you feel better Northerners, we got our first snowfall here
in "sunny" Tennessee over the weekend :-(

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 CRuper1@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-06 18:01:38 EST, you write:
>
> << I guess I don't have the problems of having to store my car.  I
live in > So. >  California.  So I get to drive my car all of the time
;-) > >  Chris Sparks >   >> > > Hey!  That's enough of this outta
you, or us people "up north" are gonna see > you for a "nice visit".
:-) > > Chris Ruper. > >

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:02:02 -0400
Subject: Re: member registry

Roger Whitaker,
I remember getting your info.  Its probably trapped in my other account
which I only occasionally use and I was also having mail trouble for a
couple of days.  I will write you if I don't find your information.
Also, sometime today or soon, I will send out a list of the people whose
 info I "have" recieved.

Thanks,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:10:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Buick Trivia (Was: Re: Paint (Was: Oil leak))

At 09:24 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> From wizkid@inlink.com Fri Nov  8 22:06:07 1996
>
>> For you silver paint lookers, here's a bit of good ole GM trivia:
Buick's >> silver anniversary year was 1929, and they produced what must
have been a >> silver anniversary model, as it was painted black over
silver, with >> vermillion in the reveals.  Wire wheels were painted
argent cream, and wood >> wheels were black.  What model was it? >> >
>Y'know, I distinctly remember seeing one of these in my teens, but I
can't >remember the model name for anything... it wasn't anything as
mundane as >"Roadmaster", was it? > > > >Tim (ex-Owner of a '53 Buick
Roadmaster Riviera) Churchill >------------- >'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname
yet to be determined >'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be
Replaced' > > > No it wasn't a Roadmaster, that name didn't appear intil
the late '30s. I don't think I have a paint chip for that color, I sure
would like to know if it is a metallic color.  The 1932 introduction of
metallic paint, may have been a mite off the mark.  But it was the
official introduction.

Cliff Feiler
Too many cars
Not enough time

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:14:03 -0400
Subject: '82 to 84 88/98 Engine Swap

To the Engine Swap Experts:

I know more bowtie heresy.

I am considering installing an LT1 into a '82-'84 88/98? or a '94 to '96
Roadmaster?

Consider it an automatic to automatic swap?  What is the best tranny?  A
700R4 will come out, but (un)luckily it will have a BOPC flange, and not
a Chevy, which I believe the LT1 will have.

Also as far as the tranny question is concerned, it will occasionally
pull trailers long distances!

What are the pitfalls?

I already have the LT1.  I think it has all of the accessory brackets,
but only the alternator stayed with it.

NEXT:

I'm also considering taking the engine out of my Camry, and replacing
the 455 in my 1984 Delta with it.  How will this change its performance
characteristics?  (The Camry I mean!)  And no I'm not talking about a
two way swap, Camry to Olds, 455 to Camry; just the Camry into the Olds.
On second though, I'll buy another Camry and take both of the engines
and siamese them into the Olds.  Will they fit?  Do you insteall the
engines side by side or fron to back.  If front to back where do you put
the 2nd radiator?  For that matter where do you put the 2nd water pump?
What would be the best transmission to use?  I was thinking of taking
the liqui-matic automatic out of my 1942 Mercury, but that might be hard
on the Mercury. The tranmission flange on the liqui-matic is different
than that on the manual tranmission models, and I guess if we did that,
the Merc would have to go to the scrap yard, even though it only has
1700 original miles on it. It also needs a new convertible top, and I
don't think it is worth spending that much money, to replace the top and
install a manual transmission, on a Mercury hanger queen.  Word is that
it never did run properly, past 1320 feet.  Owned by an old maid
schoolteacher that only drove it to the drags on Saturday, and church at
Easter and Christmas.

Now that we have the Camry's performance curve right where it should be,
lets consider the Delta with the twin Camry motors.  Do you think
nitrous would help.  I have an answer for that , but will keep it for
later. Remember, that combination is needed to tow my M4A1 Sherman tank
and trailer.  The nice thing about the Sherman is that it has five
Chrylser engines in it.  Think of it five, and the Olds will only have
two.  Along those lines; do you think we could adapt 5 Camry engines to
the Delta 88, borrow a little engineering expertise from Chrysler on how
to do it, and then do you think we would really have a mover?  Remember
after all, Chrysler got five of their six cylinder engines in that
Sherman.  Oh, yes they did.  And to keep a word to the wise, Ford built
Sherman tanks too, but they limited it to one V8.  Any bets on how they
would do at the drags next Saturday night, Sherman against Sherman;
Chrysler against Ford.  Thirty cylinders to eight.  Wow what a race!
With one exception all the the rest of the Shermans used radial airplane
engines.  And that one exception used twin GM Detroit 6-71 diesels.
Another twin, maybe we should stick with two Camrys and borrow some
engine expertise from GM and do it their way!

There still are a lot of my GM trivia questions going unanswered.  Even
one about Oldsmobile, come on down, get in the water.  Just guess, no
one is going to deprive your family of three squares and a roof over
their heads just because you guessed and it was wrong. Maybe you can
guess and it will not be wrong, and it's certainly not wrong to guess.

Some of the unanswereed questions are as follows:

A. What GM division repowered a U.S. tank.  No it isn't the twin Detroit
Diesel powered Sherman, mentioned above.  They removed the production
radial airplane engine, and installed something else.  The prototype
tank was then driven from Michigan to Washington, D.C.  A good enough
performance to warant a change to GM components in that tank from the
radial.  What was the GM part of the drive train?  What was the tank?
And no it's not the M24 Chaffee.

B. What valuable asset (still in production at GM today) was acquired
when GM acquired the Cleveland Engine Company in ca. 1929?

C. What was Oldsmobiles first engine/vehicle with over head valves?

D. What does the acronym DELCO mean, and what GM biggie came from there?

E. Why was GM the last company to discontinue the use of the Knight
sleeve valve engine?  Why did they use the sleeve valve engine at all.
Hint: Probably the next to last to discontinue the Knight engine, was
Willys-Knight, that discontinued Knight engined car production in
December 1932, when their 1933 Model 66E was discontinued, permanetly.

New GM trivia

1. What GM expert caused ladies skirts to become forever shorter?  How?
Hint: the precursor to this invention, was the use of this same area of
expertise to open cash register drawers.

2. Another Oldsmobile question: When did they remove the "Home of the
Rocket Engine" from the Kettering engine plant in Lansing.

For my information:  I cannot put this one out as a trivia question,
because I do not know the answer.  I know what DELCO means, what is the
origination of REMY?  I don't know and would like to!

GM'ing with Oldsmobile.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Delta 88 with 455 eng
1979 Delta 88 with the forgetable diesel
1931 Patrician
1931 4-door
All Oldsmobiles

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:14:46 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

The Self-Proclaimed 'Wiz-Kid' queried:

> 3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car production,
even > though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why didn't they
use this > early V8 for their auto production?  What year did they
finally get around > to using one?

Ch*vy, 1955?

> 4. What G.M. car division was started by Henry Ford?  (Yes the Henry
Ford.)

Was it Oakland?

<Big Snip>

> And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat
                                                        ^^^^^^^^
                                                I love generalizations
<'nuther Big Snip>

> I feel like I've been preaching, which I don't like to do.  And no I'm
not a > republican either, both of the major parties are much to (sic)
liberal to my > taste.  To briefly explain my politics:

<Rest of Paranoid Pat Buchanan and Lyndon Larouche-esque drivel snipped>
:)

Wow, from cool GM tirvia, to a (slightly) on-topic defense of liking
many GM divisions, including Chevy, to a completely off-topic political
dicussion. Gotta lay off that caffeine, Wiz! :)

BTW, did I answer either of the above questions correctly?



Tim (A Staunch Moderate Who Voted In Folks From Both Major Parties)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible,
a.k.a. 'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'


------------------------------

From: "JOHN L. BERENYI" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:14:29 -0400
Subject: For Sale: Engle Cam

This cam was bought from Mondello Olds. Here's the specs:



Grind number: JM16/18H

Engine Type: Olds 45 deg lifter bank angle

Valve lift:            Running Duration:            Valve lash:

IN.  477               256                           hyd

EX.  488               260                           hyd



Gross Cam Lift:                      Duration @.050:

IN.   297                                   210
EX.   305                                   216


Lobe Centers: 112


I paid $105 for this cam and don't need it.  I decided to go stock. I'll
take $75 for it.


John (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:20:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

Uh oh, I may have forgotten the question numbers, lessee:

#1 -- Heater Valve -- I had/have the same problem; the heat in Big Red
ain't all it's cracked up to be, and I pretty much drive it only from
May through October... thos "warm" New England summer nights :) ...I
also flushed the heater core, and found it reasonably clean.  I too have
A/C -- not yet working - --and I seem to have trouble with the doors
opeing properly under the dash, have lubed and adjusted with limited
success.  You might want to look there as well.

#4 -- Neutral switch -- I can start Big Red in P or N... HOWEVER, my
tranny is a TH350 out of a '73 Cutlass; it's not the same 2 Sp
Hydramatic or Jetaway you have.  But every other car I've owned of that
vintage or earlier -- and all have been GM's -- all could start in
neutral.

Hope this helps.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:32:19 -0400
Subject: Addco (Was: Re: Wagon Rear Sway Bar (Was: Re: Watta_day))

Greg B sez:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Roger M. Borlase wrote:
>
> > >I spoke to someone with a '92 Custom Cruiser.  He managed to find
one from: > > > > > >Addco Industries, Inc. > > >715 13th St. > > >Lake
Park, Florida 33403 > > >800-338-7015 or 407-842-6102 or 561-842-6102 >
> > > Do these people have a bar for '72 Cutlass and Vista Cruisers?  I
know that > > Greg wants one, and should probably put one on my wagon
too. > > I'd be willing to bet they do. They have been in business
since the late > 60's/early 70's and made rear bars for almost
everything produced. > Someone ought to give them a call and post the
results here.


FWIW, I used them about 6 years ago when I built up a, err.... Fiat 124
Spyder (ducks as rotten mufflers, old distributor caps, and bad Italian
Car jokes are hurled at him) ...they were very knowledgeable over the
phone, and were very nice when I called telling them the poly bushings
they sent me were incorrect ...three days later I had the correct ones
delivered to my house, and they didn't even ask for the wrong ones back!
The car came originally with just a front bar, and the new thicker bar
dropped right in.  The rear bar was also a very easy install.  And yes,
the bars made a very noticeable difference in handling.

If I ever do get around to tweaking Big Red's suspension, I know who to
order from...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:38:53 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

R.I. Bob guesses:

> OK, I thought there might be a trick answer with that Pontiac (I did
know > that there was no Pontiac in WWI, and that Oakland had one at
that time, and > since Oakland kinda evolved into Pontiac I thought...);
It'd be Buick, then, > who didn't produce a V-8 in a passenger car until
1954.

Well, my '53 Roadmaster came with a V8, so it had to be earlier'n
that...


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:42:22 -0400
Subject: Re: I bought it!

At 03:09 AM 11/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
[snip of unimportant drivel...]
>> - Bob Barry
>> - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) > >Bob, >   Hello, I'm Reggie Goble. Just wanted some help with
engine compartment

Hey, Reg, I think we were introduced on the Toro list (that old .sig of
mine is the one on my home computer; I have an official one on my work
machine).

>detail. I see you have a 69 Toronado. I had an engine rebuild and the
guy >painted the whole thing "basic black" and I don't(can't) remember
the >color scheme of block, head, valve covers, breather etc. If you
have a >minute what are the correct colors. I sure do enjoy driving
this Toro,

The engine and tranny are "slate blue", a neat color which you can't
just pick up at any Pep-Boys, but which is available from the major
resto places (I got mine from Fusick's, but haven't used it yet). The
air cleaner is that matte black used on most GM cars, as are the
brackets. I've got to re-seal my intake manifold (oil ooozes
everywhere), so I'll paint it then, probably in the spring.

>one of the best I've ever had. How is your Toro these days? Tomorrow I
>gotta seal the windshield and try to find a heavy gas smell at highway
>speeds. Its not a well problem (hope not). Thanks in advance.
>Reggie Goble
>69 Toronado

My windshield leaks too, but I don't have any gas-smell problem, thank
God. The Toro is still up on blocks, waiting for the proper "band-it"
type CV boot clamp, which nobody in Rhode Island seems to carry. Oh,
yeah, and I haven't had ten minutes to work on the thing in the last two
weeks, with work and buying a house and all.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:42:23 -0400
Subject: RE: (1964 Luxury Sedan - seeking info)

At 03:53 AM 11/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>I can check the producing figures for your vechile from the BIG bible
of >oldsmobiles I have at home. One thing I'm sure of is that your car
was not >produced in big amounts.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Esko, you don't carry that around with you? I'd be
ashamed...

>Mine, which was the most popular of the 98-series in that year had a
production >figure of 22000 (sorry if my memory is leaking). It is the
only 98 from that
                                        ^^^^^^^
                                        Don't you hate when that
happens,
                                        all over a nice new shirt!
>year in Finland.
>
>If you have any urgent questions, don't hesitate to ask, I might
answer. > >Please, put at least the year (1964) in the subject line so I
will read it. > >I generally trash messages that have a subject that
seems uninteresting. >Sorry guys :(. Just don't have the time to read
through all the messages).

Why, you'll just have to quit your job and devote your time to reading
about tank engines, just like the rest of us... ;)

But seriously, folks, some significant data in the subject line is never
a bad idea. _______________________________________________________ Dr.
Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept,
Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:00:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

Darren Shroeger wrote:

>  Teal Blue 68 442 4 spd; Juneau Gray 68 Delmont

I also have a 68 442 that was the Teal color.  Was this originally a
metallic?  How about getting a pic on the net of your baby?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:50:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

>With this interest in the EMD division, I thought I would share a bit
of GM >trivia.  In the early days of diesel locomotives, EMD put the
prime movers >into a locomotive for the G.M.& O., no not General Motors,
but the Gulf, >Mobile & Ohio Railroad.  The locomotive was part of a
special stainless >steel unit passenger train that ran between Chicago
and Saint Louis, I think >the train was called the Zephyr, but of that
I'm not precisely sure.  I >think the power unit may be in the
collection of Chicago's Museum of Science >and Industry; anyone up on
their accessions?

I know the one you're thinking of and I can't recall for sure whether
it's the same as what I'll get to here below, but you need to get to
Union, IL. There you'll find the Illinois Railway Museum, with a
complete, running Silver Zephyr. It's an entire train: A unit, B unit (I
think) and about three passenger cars, including an end observation car
with wraparound windows at the end and reclining, swiveling, overstuffed
wingback chairs. During their Transportation Days (or whatever it was
called) event over the Labor Day weekend, they had the entire train up
and running on a side track so you could go in and relax in frigid,
1950's air conditioning. I don't recall whether it's the same train as I
saw years before down in Chicago; I tend to think it is not.

I've got some photos of antique Olds cars from that day with the train
in the background which I'll scan in when I get some time...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:57:49 -0400
Subject: B/O/P 455's

Does anyone have any information on the relative advantages and
disadvantages of B/O/P  455 ci motors?  I am interested also in the
weights and dimensions as I am considering installing a 455 in a 79
Cutlass with significant suspensions mods..ie. PST front, Hotchkis rear.
The car has been lowered as a result about 2 inches. It is my
understanding that a Buick 455 with aftermarket intake manifold rivals
the weight of a small block Chevy.  Any thoughts or suggestions on
making this install work will be greatly appreciated...What kind of
problems am I likely to encounter. Will the B/O/P block clear the
heater assembly? Thanks in advance. Al


 "The Viking"
  PGP Public Key Available by E-Mail Request

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:11:15 -0400
Subject: 70 442 W-30 VIN

Last week I went to look at a 70 442 W-30 that is for sale. All the
nunbers I looked at checked out.  The only thing that I am unsure of is
the VIN number (344670M185556). I know it is a 70 442 convertible made
in Lansing. However, I seem to remember reading in this list, that all
W30s have a X in the VIN.  Is this correct. Also is there any other way
to tell if it is a real W-30.  I could not read the code on the engine.
I am unsure what it should be.

This is the information I have to check if it is correct.

Engine = TT for a automatic.
Transmission = OW
Axle = TM (3.42)
Top = A (White)
Color Code = 73 (Rally Red)

Bobby

70 442
92 Seville
88 Seville

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:12:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

Hi all,

My head-liner repair man was looking at my car the other day to assess
what kind of job it would be to replace my headliner.  I had taken the
window pillar moldings off and he asked to see them.  When I showed
them to him he commented that they were a light blue at one time.  My
car originally was Teal Frost with Parchment interior.  Did Olds really
have Teal colored window pillar moldings the color of the car?  It
currently is white, the color I thought it originally had.

Any thoughts?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:14:31 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

Its a shame that we can't get these owner's manuals, service manuals
on-line. Would there be a copyright problem?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 10:14 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The Self-Proclaimed 'Wiz-Kid' queried:
>
>> 3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car
production, even >> though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why
didn't they use this >> early V8 for their auto production?  What year
did they finally get around >> to using one? > >Ch*vy, 1955? > No No No,
Chevy used their first V8 in 1917.  You only missed that one by a mere
38 years, not bad, but then again not goo.  And by the way self
proclamation was not necessary; as one of my college room mates pinned
the moniker the The Wiz on me, and it eventually was extended to Wizkid.
I did continue to use it however.  It can be fun tossing pearls before
swine! Especially the unaware!  When I've have a fact wrong, I like to
be corrected.  The likes of Slick Willie, Bob The War Hero Dole (but
then he did go), and Ross I've got small mans' syndrome bad Perrot don't
recognize this condition because they are never wrong.  I don't have
that luxury.

>> 4. What G.M. car division was started by Henry Ford?  (Yes the Henry
Ford.) > >Was it Oakland? > ><Big Snip>

You better get a big snip, for you ain't got one right yet; no it wasn't
Oakland.

>
>> And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat
>                                                        ^^^^^^^^
>                                                I love generalizations
(I love oxymorons, and any other kind of morons for that matter.)

><'nuther Big Snip>
yep 'nuther Big Snip.  You probably like generalisimos too.

>
>> I feel like I've been preaching, which I don't like to do.  And no
I'm not a >> republican either, both of the major parties are much to
(sic) liberal to my >> taste.  To briefly explain my politics: > ><Rest
of Paranoid Pat Buchanan and Lyndon Larouche-esque drivel snipped> :) >
>Wow, from cool GM tirvia, to a (slightly) on-topic defense of liking
many >GM divisions, including Chevy, to a completely off-topic political
dicussion. >Gotta lay off that caffeine, Wiz! :)

I've never had a cup of coffee in my life!  How about you?
I've never had a beer in my life either, but then maybe I'm too young.

Snip some more, 'cause I really don't like politics either.
>
>BTW, did I answer either of the above questions correctly?

NO

The last division to use a V8 was Buick.  This one was correctly
answered earlier today.  They introduced it in their big series cars in
'53, and their entire line in '54.  Their WWI V8 was the 8 cylinder
version of the "Liberty" aircraft engine; it was never produced in large
number like the 12 cylinder.

>
>
>
>Tim (A Staunch Moderate Who Voted In Folks From Both Major Parties)
Churchill

So did I, and one guy from a lesser party.

But I vote for the ones that don't want my cars, my guns and all of my
money, so that they can give a little of it back to me if I can prove I
need it.

>-------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'
>
>
>
>
WIZKID (All caps for you)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 10:38 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>R.I. Bob guesses:
>
>> OK, I thought there might be a trick answer with that Pontiac (I did
know >> that there was no Pontiac in WWI, and that Oakland had one at
that time, and >> since Oakland kinda evolved into Pontiac I
thought...); It'd be Buick, then, >> who didn't produce a V-8 in a
passenger car until 1954. > >Well, my '53 Roadmaster came with a V8, so
it had to be earlier'n that... > > >Tim Churchill >------------- >'67
Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac
Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined >'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The
Next Car to be Replaced' > > > The answer is Buick 1953, his '53
Roadmaster was Buick's first V8 in a car, not earlier than that.

WiZ
0.67 caps

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:13:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

>Why on earth would GM put a low level detect in the washer bottle
>and not put one in the overflow tank? The first is a nicety, the
>second is a sure clue that water is disappearing out of a closed
>system. Maybe I'll head for a junkyard and pull the bits 'n pieces
>for the washer alert and jury rig my own coolant detect.

The best place to put a low-level detector would be not in the
overflow tank (the smallest air pocket in the radiator at normal
operating temperature is enough to render the overflow tank useless
- -- vacuum during cooling will not draw coolant back in from the
overflow if there is an air pocket in the radiator) but in the
radiator itself, say, a few inches below the top.

And in the case of my neighbor's '89 Ch*vy Celebrity wagon, that's
what the factory did. It lights a great big red "Low Coolant" light
on the dash, at which point my neighbor lifts the hood, sees a good
quantity of coolant in the overflow which has nothing to do with the
problem, assumes that all is well and does nothing about it. Sigh...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:29:11 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile article/Washington Times

This article appeared in the Washington Times Friday November 8, 1996:

Olds Name on Aurora has Merit
By Linda Sharp
Cox News Service
- ------------------------------
        With Oldsmobile's rocky path seemingly straightened out, General
Manager John Rock is retiring. He has said his departure was planned for
almost a year.
        Mr. Rock took the job of general manager at the Oldsmobile
Division of General Motors in 1992, a time when rumors of the demise of
the Oldsmobile brand were rampant. His was the unenviable task of
getting Oldsmobile, the country's oldest continuous car make, back on
course.
        Under his leadership, the very un-Detroitlike Aurora was brought
to the market. The luxury model garnered rave reviews, but the jury is
still out whether the Aurora alone can keep Oldsmobile afloat.
        How can a car division that in the not-too-distant past produced
America's No. 1 selling automobile, the Cutlass Supreme, move so close
to extinction in such a relatively short period?
        Economic pressures of the 1980's found Olds selling clones,
vehicles mostly differentiated from other product lines by the grille
and taillights. To further cut costs, GM legislated "corporate" engines.
The legendary "Rocket" motors were history.
        GM's Motorsport Technology Group made the decision to pull
Oldsmobile from NASCAR competition.
        They forgot a tradition that had begun in 1903 when an Olds
Pirate set a record between Daytona Beach and Ormond Beach, Fla. Olds
appeared blind to the value of the Hurst Olds and the muscle-bound
442's, not to mention the excitement these cars brought to Oldsmobile
retailers.
        Mr. Rock's regime quickly pulled the brand from its last bastion
of competition, drag racing. The contention was that drag racing did not
fit the Oldsmobile market.
        Warren Johnson's multiple Pro Stock Championships in Oldsmobiles
appeared meaningless. And so too, it seemed, did the enthusiastic
National Hot Rod Association fans.
        However at the same time, Olds executives were begging for a
"less geriatric" customer base. In 1995, Mr. Rock and company stepped
back a bit and developed the Aurora engine for competition. In 1996,
these motors found a home in the newly formed Indy Racing League.
        Much of what John Rock accomplished is to be applauded. However,
the decision to not capitalize on Oldsmobile's strong racing history is
baffling. Moreover, it is a challenge to comprehend the decision to omit
the Oldsmobile name from the Aurora.
        Hopefully, Mr. Rock's successor, Darwin Clark, will recall that
success often is built on history and tradition, and always on personal
pride. If Mr. Clark wants us to believe in Oldsmobile, Oldsmobile must
first believe in itself. Putting its name on the flagship Aurora would
be a good beginning. -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        Mailto:davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:36:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

At 10:50 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>With this interest in the EMD division, I thought I would share a bit
of GM >>trivia.  In the early days of diesel locomotives, EMD put the
prime movers >>into a locomotive for the G.M.& O., no not General
Motors, but the Gulf, >>Mobile & Ohio Railroad.  The locomotive was part
of a special stainless >>steel unit passenger train that ran between
Chicago and Saint Louis, I think >>the train was called the Zephyr, but
of that I'm not precisely sure.  I >>think the power unit may be in the
collection of Chicago's Museum of Science >>and Industry; anyone up on
their accessions? > >I know the one you're thinking of and I can't
recall for sure whether it's >the same as what I'll get to here below,
but you need to get to Union, IL. >There you'll find the Illinois
Railway Museum, with a complete, running >Silver Zephyr. It's an entire
train: A unit, B unit (I think) and about >three passenger cars,
including an end observation car with wraparound >windows at the end and
reclining, swiveling, overstuffed wingback chairs. >During their
Transportation Days (or whatever it was called) event over >the Labor
Day weekend, they had the entire train up and running on a >side track
so you could go in and relax in frigid, 1950's air conditioning. >I
don't recall whether it's the same train as I saw years before down in
>Chicago; I tend to think it is not. > >I've got some photos of antique
Olds cars from that day with the train >in the background which I'll
scan in when I get some time... > >Andrew C. Green
(312) 853-8331 >Datalogics, Inc. >101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800
Internet: acg@dlogics.com >Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312)
853-8282 > > > > Thanks for the Great data.  I think that eventually
there were several GM&O Zephyrs, so there could easily be more than one
surviving.  I believe they ran from the early-mid '30s until the '60's;
they gave a lot of years of service.

I would expect that the Zephyr at Union, IL; is a Unit train, ie, meant
to travel as a unit, and not be broken up.  They had especially designed
engines and cars, streamlined and stainless steel.  And maybe only one
truck between the cars, I can't remember this aspect exactly, as far as
the Zephyrs are concerned, but would expect them to be so.  With only
one truck the cars cannot be uncoupled without special car handling
equipment.

Illinois has an interesting bit of pioneer diesel powered locomotive
history.  The Illinois Central purchased three of the earliest diesel
locomotives ever constructed.  One was powered by an Ingersol-Rand, one
by a Busch-Seltzer and I don't remember the prime mover maker of the
3rd.  I.C. called them 9200, 9201, and 9202.  I also don't remember
which was which, except that 9201 was probably the Busch-Seltzer.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds w/455
1979 Olds w/diesel
1931 Olds Patrician
1931 Olds 4 -door

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:38:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

At 11:14 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Its a shame that we can't get these owner's manuals, service manuals
on-line. >Would there be a copyright problem? > >Chris Sparks >68 442 > > >
Here, here.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:32:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile article/Washington Times

At 11:29 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>This article appeared in the Washington Times Friday November 8, 1996:
>
>Olds Name on Aurora has Merit
>By Linda Sharp
>Cox News Service
>------------------------------
>        With Oldsmobile's rocky path seemingly straightened out,
General >Manager John Rock is retiring. He has said his departure was
planned for >almost a year.

Jim Mateja of the Chicago Tribune did an interview with John Rock
on October 28th that's pretty interesting reading. It's probably
fallen off the Tribune web pages by now but I guess I could fax a
photocopy of it to anyone who's interested. Let me know...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:54:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Visionary '98 442 sketches ready

Aaron wrote:

> A while back there was talk of drawing up some sketches for a new 442
based > on the F-body platform.  Well, I did a little pencil pushing and
came up > with some, and thanks to Charley Buehner, they are ready for
download. > They're not of professional quality, but you guys might like
'em.  I'd like > to know what everyone thinks, and to see which proposal
is the most popular. > After I get a inkling for what the enthusiasts
(that means you) want, I'll > try to do a more "professional" job and
incorporate everyones ideas. > > While I believe Charley sent these to
the Bryceman, I don't believe there up > on the page as of now.  As it
would reak havoc on the server, I don't plan > on sending them to the
whole list, but if you would like to see them, e-mail > me privately and
I'll send them to your personal address. > > Once again, this is a
chance for everyone's dreams to be put on paper (and > screen), so I'd
like your input so that we can design the awesomest, most > fantabulous,
tire burning, corner turning, fine looking 442 since the days > of
bell-bottoms and Vietnam.

Let us know when they are ready for download.  I don't want to raise
suspicions here at work if you mail it to me.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:54:58 -0400
Subject: A Valuable Automobile Market Letter

If you would like to read a very valuable automobile market letter try:
Rather read that a market letter with some value instead:  However don't
go there if your easily offended.

http://www.mars.superlit.net/~rriegler/sml

The author might have missed a great bet as his first piece is on
Renaults, and he doesn't even mention the rare and if it's rare it must
be valuable Gardoni motors.

I wonder if I could get 5 Gardoni motors in my Delta.

He also has a place in his heart for the Cadilla Cimarron.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds
1979 Olds
1931 Olds
1931 Olds

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:25:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Muscle Car of the Week

Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > The page itself is at:
> >
> > http://www.nji.com/~choad/mcotw/mcotw.html
>
> That URL doesn't work.  Did it work for anybody else?
>
> -DaN

Try:

http://www.nji.com/~choad/mcotw/mcotw.htm

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:03:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Heresy?

<snip>
> HOWEVER: to those of you that think Olds is so pure, they sure f..ked
over > most everyone that bought one of their well touted and poorly
executed > diesels.  Chevrolet had their copper cooled disaster, and
Olds had the > diesel.  Chevrolet recalled theirs; Olds just ignored
them.  They alone, > fairly well destroyed the U.S. public's perception
of the value of the > diesel engine for use in an automobile. <snip> >
The most common problem was the failure of > the rear main bearing cap.
They simply disintegrated.  A friend has over > 300,000 miles on his
Mercedes diesel, so the problem was not diesel fueled > engines, but
simply Oldsmobile.  They had to be sued to recognized their > failure.

I believe GM Corporate has some say in Olds' budgetary decisions.  From
a corporate standpoint, it's better to have a single entity take some
major flak than the whole (eg. protect the Chevy sales).

I've always heard the problem was the injection pump failing, or heads
cracking. I believe another problem was the engines being touted as low
maintenence, hence 5,000+ miles oil changes with non-diesel approved
oil.  Ouch!  300,000 mile Olds diesels I know about received severe duty
maintenence - pretty much needed to make any motor last 200,000+.  I
bet the Mercedes cost a bit more than the Olds.

<snip>
> And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat (if
that's > not the ultimate oxymoron).  You are willing to accept second
or third best, > and don't give a damn about what it cost.  Oldsmobile
derived products are > generally quite acceptable, but not necessarily,
the best, where the > ultimate bang for the buck is concerned.  Some of
the other divisions do > have their occasional successes.  I'd suggest
give Oldsmobile their due, but > acknowledge the others, as they do some
things very well too. <snip> > First and foremost is the freedom of
speech, how does the freedom of speech > and political correct speech
intersect, for example.  Second is from those > political aspirants that
would have us driving electric cars, or if not > electric cars, gasoline
cars no older than four years.  (How's that for > planned obsolesence?)
Third is the right to keep and bear arms.  You think > we have an
unreasonable and overzeallous government?  What do you think you > would
have with an un-armed populace?  When Mrs. Reno ordered those people >
murdered in Waco, and in my name, I began to totally rethink my
political > position; and it is much removed than it was a year to two
ago. <snip> > There is an interesting parallel to what is happening here
right now, and > what was going on in Germany in 1937 or so; when the
German government began > murdering those elements of it's population
that it didn't like because > (their excuse for their actions) they
adhered to what was considered some > sort of "wacko" religion...  In
1937 the German unit of extermination was > one or two here a small
group there; it would take some years before the > unit of measure would
expand to be the trainload at the Berlin Banhof.  So > far it's been
Waco and Ruby Ridge, and who's next.  Remember, you don't get > to
decide whether or not your religion is "wacko," they do.  But then we >
have a constitutional guarantee about the freedom of religion.  Didn't
we.

> And the problem isn't democrats or republicans it's both.  I recently
saw a > bumper sticker in four lines:

> First they took away the fourth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
> because I'm not a drug dealer.
> Second they took away the sixth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
> because I'm innocent.
> Third they took away the second amendment, and I didn't say anything,
> because I don't own a gun;
> Now they took away the first amendment, and I can't say anything.
>
> And that pretty much said it all.
>
>
> Cliff Feiler
> 4 Oldsmobiles
> 2 Chevrolets
> 5 Buicks
> 1 Dodge
> 2 Fords
> And a partridge in a pear tree

Let's see, here is the original reply:
- ---------------
"But then this would be the Ch*vy Mail List server, we would all be
driving craparows, and using the word cool for every third word in our
run on sentences.

To find a nice motor, do some cheapie wheels car shopping.  Find a nice
motor from a donor car.  If you have the time and space, you can
probably part out some of the donor car and make a few bucks.  You can
also buy remanufactured Olds 307 and 403s from GM.
http://www.GMProShop.Com

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds"
- ---------------

So what I can conclude from my two line opinion, and the 80+ line reply
about Olds Diesels, accepting second best, taking away freedom of
speech and RKBA, Nazis, and a concluding rescinding of all personal
freedom, is that I shall not voice my opinion for utter fear of
retribution from those of a differing opinion.

Yeah, right.  Just say "NO" to blowties and smoke block chevies (and
Ford OBs for that matter).  Sorry about the long post.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
Registered voter who votes across party lines, could give a rat's ***
about political correctness, and owns several guns, non of which shot
nails.

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:07:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil leaks

Ok folks,

I got my car back from the mechanic who did the seals.  He spent all day
looking for leaks and found nothing wrong and of course did nothing.
I had called his receptionist and she stated that they found something
(of course the mechanic denied later).  What I think happened here is
that the mechanic must have removed the fuel pump (possibly damaged it)
when he was doing the front seal (?).  When I got the car home that
night, I noticed one single drop of a watery/oily substance on my piece
of cardboard.  It looked watery, probably drip from cleaning attempt
made by mechanic.  I took it back to my regular mechanic on Saturday,
who I trust implicitly, and he found that the fuel pump was really bad.
It seems that it was leaking inward.  Needless to say I had to have the
oil changed.  For $70 I got the fuel pump, labor, oil change, brake
adjustment, and charging system checked.  He is definetly good to me.

BTW:  I was told that I had all drum brakes (yuch!)  I know that the
68 442's did come with disc brakes.  Is it costly to convert?  I miss
having disc brakes that stop on a dime.  You know for safety reasons
(I know that is a half truth.  Disc brakes make the car more valuable).

BTW:  Did a 68 442 come with a shoulder harness seat belt.  I sure miss
that too.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:07:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil leaks

>BTW:  Did a 68 442 come with a shoulder harness seat belt.  I sure miss
>that too.

Why, do you have bolt holes in the headliner? Our '69 Pontiac had
shoulder belts, FWIW; they were completely separate assemblies from the
lap belts. You had two separate (identical) buckles to put on. What with
two for each of the outboard passengers and one lap set for the middle
passenger, the front seat was kind of a mess of buckles at the best of
times.

If you're trying to figure out whether the car used to have shoulder
belts installed, you could try counting the buckles on the front seat
and see if you have two extras...?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:04:00 -0400
Subject: Engine paint

Hi all,

I'm in the process of rebuilding my '69 350 engine and although it's a
long way away from engine paint, I am wondering where to find the best
duplicate of the original gold color on the engine.  Most I've seen is
WAY TOO gold, and I'm sure there has to be something available that is
much closer.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:35:26 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia -- Sorry, Greg!

> From wizkid@inlink.com Mon Nov 11 12:09:05 1996

<Snip 1>

> >> 3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car
production, even > >> though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why
didn't they use this > >> early V8 for their auto production?  What year
did they finally get around > >> to using one? > > > >Ch*vy, 1955? > > >
No No No, Chevy used their first V8 in 1917.  You only missed that one
by a > mere 38 years, not bad, but then again not goo.  And by the way
self > proclamation was not necessary; as one of my college room mates
pinned the > moniker the The Wiz on me, and it eventually was extended
to Wizkid.  I did > continue to use it however.  It can be fun tossing
pearls before swine!

Well, you certainly don't have any self-esteem problems, though I wonder
if perchance your college roommates called you 'The Wiz' for reasons
other than which you imply :)

<Snip 2>

> >Was it Oakland?
> >
> ><Big Snip>
>
> You better get a big snip, for you ain't got one right yet; no it
wasn't > Oakland.

You'll notice I put question marks after each response?  As in, they
were *guesses*?  I didn't know this was one of those tests where points
were taken off for guessing :)

>
> >
> >> And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat
> >                                                        ^^^^^^^^
> >                                                I love
generalizations (I > love oxymorons, and any other kind of morons for
that matter.) > > ><'nuther Big Snip> > yep 'nuther Big Snip.  You
probably like generalisimos too.
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You know nothing of my politics... and I certainly don't preach them on
an Oldsmobile list.

<Snip 3>

> >Wow, from cool GM tirvia, to a (slightly) on-topic defense of liking
many > >GM divisions, including Chevy, to a completely off-topic
political dicussion. > >Gotta lay off that caffeine, Wiz! :) > > I've
never had a cup of coffee in my life!  How about you?

Sure I have, wizzy.  Had a cup this morning.  I made that humorous
comment - -- you'll note the smiley face, indicating humor? -- because
your long stream-of-consciousnees post had a timestamp of 5:20 AM
Sunday morning, and thought perhaps you were pulling an all-nighter.
And I didn't mention coffee; perhaps it was one too many Hershey bars?
:)

> I've never had a beer in my life either, but then maybe I'm too young.

Thank God. You sound like you'd make a scary drunk.

>
> Snip some more, 'cause I really don't like politics either.

Good, then p'haps you'll endeavour to keep the 100's of lines of non-car
related political pontification out of further posts to this group?


> WIZKID (All caps for you)

No, I'm afraid you are quite 'lower case' in my eyes...

NOTE:

I apologize to everyone else on the list, especially you, Greg.  This,
err, gentleman's posts were just rubbing me the wrong way, both the
patronizing way he's been posting the G.M. questions -- good trivia
questions though they are -- and that rather long-winded thesis of his.
I got a little snippy. Heck, it's this cold weather, and the withdrawal
of not driving Big Red for over a month now; yeah, that's it...



Tim (Who'll Understand If He Gets Kicked Off the List) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:38:10 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

> From wizkid@inlink.com Mon Nov 11 12:09:13 1996
> >R.I. Bob guesses:
> >
> >> OK, I thought there might be a trick answer with that Pontiac (I
did know > >> that there was no Pontiac in WWI, and that Oakland had one
at that time, and > >> since Oakland kinda evolved into Pontiac I
thought...); It'd be Buick, then, > >> who didn't produce a V-8 in a
passenger car until 1954. > > > >Well, my '53 Roadmaster came with a V8,
so it had to be earlier'n that... > >

wiz sez:
> >
> The answer is Buick 1953, his '53 Roadmaster was Buick's first V8 in a
car, > not earlier than that. >

Yes, '53 *is* earlier'n '54, which is what I meant.
Guess I gotta keep my pronoun's in order... :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco

By company I meant bringing it back to GM. Everybody I have talked to
has said that it must have been defective paint or bad craftsmanship.
What do you think?

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:57:58 -0400
Subject: Trunk release


     Along this same subject, I just thought that people might like to
know
     that the eletric remote trunk release for late-model Cutlass's
     (G-body) is available through J.C. Whitney of all places.  I bought

     one a few years ago for my '79, it was only $20.  After being
painted
     body color it looks absolutely stock, you simply can't tell, even
     sitting right next to a car with a factory one.  It even comes with

     wiring and the correct button to put in the glove box.  Very simple

     installation, one screw and one wire.  Unfortunately I don't have
one
     of their catalogs handy, so you'll have to find it yourself.






------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:57:54 -0400
Subject: Setting the Pace

     Wasn't this book supposed to be sent out complimentary to all Olds
     Club members?  I'm a member of the OCA and H/OCA and haven't
received
     one yet.  Has everyone else out there got theirs or are other
people
     still waiting?  It sound like a great book and I'm anxious to read
it.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: G.M. Trivia Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/10/96 3:21 AM

     For those of you that deal with G.M. trivia, I read about 1/4th of
     "Setting The Pace, Oldsmobile's First 100 Years" by Earley and
     Walkinshaw, which brought me up to the mid-1920's, and the Copper
     Cooled Oldsmobile.  Yes folks

------------------------------

From: andy_mikesell@mail.amsinc.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:16:00 -0400
Subject: Waking the beast from a long slumber....(long)

  Hello fellow Olds enthusiasts!

  I have subscribed to this list for quite a while but really haven't
had
  the ability to contribute much since my Olds has been in storage since
  last February.   My company relocated me to England, and let's just
say
  they didn't believe me when I tried to claim my Olds as a family
member.
  I really should do some more schmoozing with the expatriate manager...

  The Car:
  She's a mostly original 1971 Delta 88 convertible with a 2 barrel 455
  hooked to a T400.  I added dual exhaust, Turbo mufflers (a bit loud in
my
  opinion), a Delco Hi-performance air-cleaner, posi-track rear, a new
top,
  a decent sound system, custom wheels, and painted her Chrysler
midnight
  blue.  There is also a list of items I replaced along the way (fuel
pump,
  radiator, fan clutch, carburettor, interior carpet, etc.) but I keep
  those items to replacement specs - no out of the ordinary
modifications.
  The original interior colour, Avocado Green, is pretty ugly but the
  interior is almost factory new with no cracks in the dash, missing
  interior panels, or broken switches.  The interior colour has kinda
grown
  on me and I'm considering repainting the exterior to the original
  metallic pea - or whatever it was.

  I bought the car from the original owner for $1000 in 1990.  The
engine
  and tranny were rebuilt at 110 K miles and I bought it with 15 K since
  the rebuild.  Since I bought it in 1900, I have put almost 160 K miles
on
  the car.  The car was a little worn (ahem, well-loved), but had never
  been wrecked.  I had a decent body shop fix the exterior and small
door
  dings and squirt it with the deep blue paint.  The owner kept the
  protect-o-plate, original warrantee papers, and even the window
sticker!
  I don't know all the codes for the heads, etc., but have the Olds FAQ
and
  plan to do a little research when I return to the states next week.

  The Situation
  In February I put the car into storage, assuming it would be there for
2
  or more years.  The car is on stands, gas tank drained, battery
  disconnected.  At the time, I couldn't bear to part with my Land Shark
  (although getting rid of my wife's VW Cabrio was a bit more trivial -
no
  tears shed there).  The owner of the storage unit now wants the unit
back
  before December 1.   Alas, I must travel 7 time zones to revive my
  sleeping beast!  (Or at least long enough to get her to another
storage
  unit.)

  Can anyone share recommendations for reviving a car after a prolonged
  storage?  Last time it sat for a prolonged period (3 months while I
was
  in Sweden) it just about killed the AAA truck when he jumped it.  He
  claimed it was because the engine was a big block, I think it was just
  cold.  Funny, my Interstate battery never had any problems in past
  winters...

  Thanks for your advice in advance!
  - Andy

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:15:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Maaco

>By company I meant bringing it back to GM. Everybody I have talked to
has >said that it must have been defective paint or bad craftsmanship.
What do >you think?

I think it's way too late for that, unfortunately, even though I think
everyone would agree off-the-record that it was probably bad paint from
the factory (or maybe more accurately bad primer). They've had some
recalls over this kind of problem in the past, but I believe those
recalls are also long gone.

But maybe some friendly dealer might be willing to meet you partway on a
repaint price; who knows. Be nice. You catch more flies with honey...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:32:56 -0400
Subject: 69 W-31 tranny code

I have a 69 W-31 Cutlass and I was wondering what the correct code for
the transmission should be.  My says     69
                                         JO350
                                              D
My 442 and W machine restoration guide says that for 69's it should be
JL or JB?, no JO is listed, but for 70's it lists JO as the W-31
transmission code. Can I assume that I have the correct transmission?
Also, what do the 350 and D stand for and where would the serial number
be located?  Thank you in advance for any information you can provide
me.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
1969 W-31 Cutlass
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertible - still for sale
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:13:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

> Its a shame that we can't get these owner's manuals, service manuals
on-line.
> Would there be a copyright problem?
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Yeah, I've been in touch with GM over a few copyright issues and they
are VERY touchy about it.  Also very slow to give you any kind of yes or
no answer ...

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:23:03 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia -- Sorry, Greg!

> I apologize to everyone else on the list, especially you, Greg.

> Tim (Who'll Understand If He Gets Kicked Off the List) Churchill

No problem with me, Tim ... I figure you had the guts to do what most of
us just thought about doing ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:11:16 -0400
Subject: Re: 70 442 W-30 VIN

> Last week I went to look at a 70 442 W-30 that is for sale. All the
nunbers I
> looked at checked out.

> Transmission = OW
> Bobby
>
The tranny code OW is correct for a W-30.  Double check that is from
this car by looking in the bottom left corner of the plate for a "70".

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:35:35 -0400
Subject: Intake manifold question

     Well, I spent most of Friday and Saturday replacing the Intake
     manifold gasket, flushing the system, and installing an Edelbrock
     Performer intake on my '84 Hurst/Olds 307.  Took twice as long as
the
     last Olds intake I did since it's buried under about 48 sensors and
3
     miles of vacuum hoses and wiring.  It's all back together and seems
to
     be working and running fine, aside from two minor details which I
call
     upon the great mass of collective Olds-wisdom here for help with:

     First, on the stock intake their are some brass "tubes", one
directly
     under each primary venturi, about 3/8"-1/2" inside diameter that
seem
     to go straight down into the heat crossover passage.  On the
Edelbrock
     intake, there were holes in the floor of the manifold that were
about
     the right size, in the right place, that also went into the heat
     crossover passage, but they weren't tapped.  So, I didn't move
those
     "tubes" over from the stock manifold.  Should I have tapped these
     holes and used the stock tubes?  Most importantly, what the heck
are
     these?  My best guess is that's where the EGR gasses enter the
system.
      My dad, who's a Chevy racer from waaay back, has never seen
anything
     like it (but he was amazed that I could take off the intake without

     removing the distributor :-) ).

     Second anomaly (yup, I watch too much Star Trek too), is that twice

     now (once the first time I fired it up after reassembly, then again

     this morning after 2 days of normal operation) I've gotten a code
42
     _immediately_ upon starting the car.  A code 42 is "Electronic
Spark
     Timing" and it says the EST circuit is grounded or open, and a bad
HEI
     module can also cause this.  Any ideas?  I've rechecked all the
     connections to the distributor.  Should I check them again and
     possibly try some dielectric grease on the contacts this time, or
do
     you think it's just coincidence and my HEI module is failing?

     Thanks for the help!  Look forward to a good resto tip later today
     that I just discovered. . .

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:06:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

>     Wasn't this book supposed to be sent out complimentary to all Olds
>     Club members?  I'm a member of the OCA and H/OCA and haven't
received >     one yet.  Has everyone else out there got theirs or are
other people >     still waiting?  It sound like a great book and I'm
anxious to read it.

I talked to Penny Casteele last week and told her I hadnt rec'd my copy
of the book either. She assured me that I would be getting one. Maybe
they are sending the books out in alphabetical order by last name. That
would explain why Greg BEAULIEU has one and Bryce SMITH doesnt. Has
anyone with last names beginning with letters from the latter part of
the alphabet gotten one yet? Just a theory on my part, I failed to ask
Penny if last name order is how they were shipping. Sorry. They could
also be shipping to blocks of members based on OCA member number. There
are alot of members in OCA, it will probably take some time to get them
all covered.

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:20:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

At 05:57 AM 11/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     Wasn't this book supposed to be sent out complimentary to all Olds
 >     Club members?  I'm a member of the OCA and H/OCA and haven't
received >     one yet.  Has everyone else out there got theirs or are
other people >     still waiting?  It sound like a great book and I'm
anxious to read it. > >     Tom Lentz >     tlentz@teknon.com. >
 >______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ >Subject: G.M. Trivia >Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET >Date:    11/10/96 3:21 AM > >
For those of you that deal with G.M. trivia, I read about 1/4th of >
"Setting The Pace, Oldsmobile's First 100 Years" by Earley and >
Walkinshaw, which brought me up to the mid-1920's, and the Copper >
Cooled Oldsmobile.  Yes folks > > > The cover letter included with the
book did indeed indicate that it was complimentary from Olds to all Olds
Club members.  It came via snail mail last Saturday, and is an excellent
work.  Tons of photos, lots of data, and a superb story.

Cliff Feiler
Via Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:15:42 -0400
Subject: RE: Rust repair

>If you can reach the holes from under, you could put fiberclass there
and finish >the outside using bondo.

Yes, a better idea.

>I never used Bondo but it that stuff is what I think it is, it is not
perfect for
>repairing holes.

Of that there is no doubt.  It's not perfect.  What I would like to do
(but can't afford to) is take it to my favorite body shop and spend
about $3,000 on it.  Since I *can't* afford that, I'll do my own
bodywork, and hopefully it will last until I can afford the body shop.

Thanks for the idea!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:20:10 -0400
Subject: RE: '82 to 84 88/98 Engine Swap

>Consider it an automatic to automatic swap?  What is the best tranny?
A >700R4 will come out, but (un)luckily it will have a BOPC flange, and
not a >Chevy, which I believe the LT1 will have.

It comes with a 700 R4.  The engines for that Buick are Chevy.
trailers long distances!

>What are the pitfalls?

Constructing a new wiring harness and aquiring the computer from a
F-body car. Popular Mechanics did this swap a while ago.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:39:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Bryceman wrote:

> I talked to Penny Casteele last week and told her I hadnt rec'd my
copy of > the book either. She assured me that I would be getting one. >
Maybe they are sending the books out in alphabetical order by last name. >
That would explain why Greg BEAULIEU has one and Bryce SMITH doesnt. Has >
anyone with last names beginning with letters from the latter part of
the > alphabet gotten one yet? Just a theory on my part, I failed to ask
Penny if

I got mine a few weeks ago...  But I've been so busy that I haven't even
had a chance to crack it open!


- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services
Department http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod
Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:05:03 -0400
Subject: RE: Setting the Pace

>     one yet.  Has everyone else out there got theirs or are other
people >     still waiting?  It sound like a great book and I'm anxious
to read it.

I'm still waiting, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

roger borlase

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:37:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior colors

>>When I showed them to him
>he commented that they were a light blue at one time.  My car
originally >was Teal Frost with Parchment interior.  Did Olds really
have Teal colored >window pillar moldings the color of the car?

You're talking about the interior molding on the A-pillars, right?  One
on each side of the windshield?  Yes, they had light blue.  The ones I
took out of that '68 convertible were light blue, as was the rest of the
interior. - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:52:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

Does anyone think that if I joined OCA, would I receive the book
anyway.  Just a question.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:50:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 1980 4-4-2 For Sale

Hey, there are others out there! I wonder what color it is? I have only
seen black ones, never seen another white one like mine. The price
sounds good. I paid around that.

 08:38 AM 11/8/96 -0400, Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
>This appeared in the Olds Club of Canada newsletter:
>
>1980 Olds 4-4-2, original 120,000 km (that about 72K miles), 350
Rocket, >good condition, $3,500 Cdn.  519-396-7479 > >Since Jason's
research indicated these were very rare I thought I'd >mention it. - -
- - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) Sports Administration graduate student at Kent State
University 88 Camaro Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy
High Performance 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at
http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:47:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 68 Olds Service Manual

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Chris Sparks wrote:

> Its a shame that we can't get these owner's manuals, service manuals
on-line. > Would there be a copyright problem? > > Chris Sparks > 68
442 > >

Here's a web page that has repair information, it's just general
information and is not tailored to any specific vehicle.  It might be of
 some use to someone. http://www.autosite.com

here's one with a list of recalls and tsb's
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov

Hope this is of some use.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:54:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the Pace

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Bryceman wrote:

> >
> I talked to Penny Casteele last week and told her I hadnt rec'd my
copy of > the book either. She assured me that I would be getting one. >
Maybe they are sending the books out in alphabetical order by last name. >
That would explain why Greg BEAULIEU has one and Bryce SMITH doesnt. Has >
anyone with last names beginning with letters from the latter part of
the > alphabet gotten one yet?Just a theory on my part, I failed to ask
Penny if > > >            Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles >
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible >
Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com > > > > I got mine a week
or two ago and my name starts with an R. however i'm 200 miles away from
it at school and I can't wait to go home for Thanksgiving so I can
start reading it.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #361
********************************
 
