To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/23/96 10:41:55 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #378


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 23 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 378


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:23:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 6 million$ for a 69 VC!!??

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> If the wheel opening moldings are the same as on other 68-69 Cutlasses
> you have to get them used, no repros are made that I know of. They can
> be had - I saw in JWO that John Green of Toronto had some for $45 each
> - but you do have to search a little for them. If they are
> Vista-specific you are definitely talking salvage yard.

Must be tons of them lying around in Ecuador.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:34:40 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

> ...but I'll bet you don't know what a Johnson bar is?
>
> The Wiz

Is it a candy bar? :-)

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:43:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 71-72 Parts

>   Oh, and the dual-gate in this car - were these ever a option
> without a console?

Ok ignorance time.  What is a dual-gate?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 14:53:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 6 million$ for a 69 VC!!??

Hey Blair,

My Uncle and Aunt used to live in Ecuador along with my Grandfather.  My
 grandfather lived in Quito, and had a winter residence just south of
Guyiaquil (sp?) on the coast up until about a year and a half ago when
he was forced back to the U.S. because of heart trouble.  My Uncle, was
an ambassador, was also one to Uraguay for a while, and most recently
to Suriname.  Perhaps that was his car?  Hey, I don't know, anything is
 possible.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Blair Rendell wrote:

> At 12:37 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >Blair Rendell wrote:
> >>
> >> Well I am now the proud owner of a 69 Vista Cruiser....a former US
> >> Embassy car..here in Quito, Ecuador.
> >
> >Geez, Blair, only YOU could find a VC in Ecuador.  6 million sucres
-- > >such a deal.  Congratulations.  BTW, Any Toronados lying around
the > >countryside? > > > >The 66 Toro and Mike > > > >Mike: >
Haven't seen any Toros here...yet..but now that I have wheels..besides
my > normal mode of transport..bicycle..I can cover a little more
ground..I will > be looking for ANY  Olds of interest.. Blair > >-- >
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated > >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication > >     (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > > > > > > > > > >
 > >

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:18:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 6 million$ for a 69 VC!!??

zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
>
> Hey Blair,
>
> My Uncle and Aunt used to live in Ecuador along with my Grandfather.

Geez.  I'm I the only guy who hasn't been to Ecuador?
I'm moving to Quito, this is a happenin place!  VCs
for sale, summer places...

The 66 Toro and Mike (putting for sale sign on lawn)


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:26:07 -0400
Subject: FW: FW: Weekend almost disaster

- ----------
From: 	Frank Boerger[COMPUSERVE:103454,317]
Sent: 	Friday, November 22, 1996 8:48 AM
To: 	'Dana and Mary Taylor'
Subject: 	RE:  Weekend almost disaster

Someone wrote:

>Actually it would become somewhat stable but at 35 lbs (for example)
>or a amount of time then you reduce rpm thus lowering the pressure to
>0 the air would then expand the amount of the 5 lbs thereby producing a
>ag in guage responce.  No it would not be absorbed by the oil. A large
>bubble my becone dispursed in the tube producing many small bubbles
>though.

Well, I'm going to install two gauge sometime, one "bled", one not, and
video these lags. Until then, you're talking about something so small
that if it exists, it would be beyond the resolution of a common dash
gauge.

> No argument there, although you can "pump up the pedal" if time
permits.(!) >Not revelant to the discusson. Although if your belief were
true one >could leave only air in the lines and pump the pedal many
times to stop >the car.

Why isn't that relevant to the discussion ??  Your original point was to
say that all air HAD to be removed....his response is that, like mine,
if you had big enough volume to displace in a short amount of time, yes,
you COULD pump the system to a stop.  Watch the terms "not relevant" and
uninformed" ...they're being floated quite loosely.  We're hear to have
a fun, lively, discussion, and maybe learn something.  I've just got to
say that I want to be certain  you're right before I go back and tell my
physics prof that he was wrong all along.

> having force over a wide area (the diaphragm) focused on one actuating
> point, the master cylinder plunger.

>This is exactly my point. The air over and the vacuum assist amplifies
>the pressure applied by your foot. It is not air pressure in the brake
>line.

We all agreed to this in the first post !

> the engine is first started... but it never squirts out of the gauge,
even

>Again you are expressing my point.  Also oil or air should not squirt
out >of the guage.. But previous oil guage instructions and in trade
school we >learned that you bleed the guage by starting the engine -
placing a rag >under the connection of line to guage - then cracking
the fitting >slightly until you see only oil leaking from fitting. If
you have the >nylon hose you can see when all the air is gone.

Look, all I'm saying is, not one of the 15 or so gauges I've purchased
ever said to bleed it, and that the blind end of the tube will not
permit all of the air to be removed.

> after years of service, and it never drains back, either. I have one
used >Right again - unless there is a leak at the guage or the fitting
the oil will not drain back into the engine because in order for the
oil to leave the line air (or something else) must enter the line. The
surface tension of the oil and the size of the tube will not allow air
to enter from the engine end. Just like a straw full of water will stay
full as long as you hold your finger over the end.

Now you're confusing outside air pressure "pushing" the fluid up the
straw against the vacuum created because you have your finger over the
end...not a "relevant" analogy.  Oil stays in a small, open -ended tube
by capillary action.


I sense by the next two posts that you're getting a bit miffed by my
"British Flat Earth Socitey" questions.  While you have stated that you
are a truck driver, heavy equipment operator, mechanic and such, some of
us are stuck in other disciplines.  But I've learned during my time on
the list that the most correct answer can and often does come from one
of many sly sources that hammer on Oldsmobiles in their spare time.

Your original post said that excessive oil pressure would wear out
bearings and that you had to bleed on oil gauge to get yield accurate
readings.  Also that excess oil pressure made the oil travel too fast,
thereby not allowing the oil time in which to absorb the heat.

I am still not satisfied that you have clearly made your point on any of
the above.

Respectfully,

Frank Boerger
Talahassee, FL

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:26:02 -0400
Subject: RE: Weekend almost disaster

- ----------
From: 	Frank Boerger[COMPUSERVE:103454,317]
Sent: 	Friday, November 22, 1996 9:10 AM
To: 	'Dana and Mary Taylor'
Subject: 	RE: FW: Weekend almost disaster


> Check out your friendly 18 wheeler...he kinda depends on air as the
fluid..and > those nitrogen accumulators kinda represent some "air"
(gas) in the system on > purpose.

>My point exactly!!! but your friendly 18 wheeler (I've driven them) has
the >air already >under 90 lbs pressure. also if the safety equipment
is operating properly >the warning >equipment starts screaming at 60
lbs and the truck will not move below >45 -50 lbs >pressure. when you
apply pressure to the treddle valve (they do not have >brake peddlals)

>The pressurized air enters the air lines and activates the air
canisters ( >really just a >diafram) and forces the shoes out against
the drums.

I know everyone is concerned about the length of replies, but this snip
does not adequately represent my reply to his original question...which
was "I'd like to know of a brake system where air is desired."

>Right again sir... The tube you speak of is designed that way for the
very >reason of which I speak. The guage (when built) is calabrated to
account >for the air designed into the expandable tube in the guage.

So, they design a gauge, put it on a pressure test stand, bleed it to
the fitting, so how far the needle moves, and mark it to agree with the
stanardized manometer used for calibration...do they also adjust for STP
? Standard Temperature and pressure ?  If they do, I am now impressed.
But I never bleed gauges that I put on hydraulic systems, or my well
pump for that matter.  I still say that the air left in the line will
compress to equilibrium, period.

> Right again.. Too much volume will not wear out the bearings. The
>pressure could.

Be careful throwing around pressure without regard to volume. Remember:
	V' = P/P'*T'/T. (Well, at least in gases :) )

A pressure washer at 3 gpm and 1800 psi would have a hard time keeping
up with the erosion that the Grand Canyon has experienced over the last
several thousane years.

> In the normal life span of a car this would never be a >problem But in
>the life span of otr trucks which accumlate 200 - 300 >thousand miles
>between rebuilds in 1 to 1 1/2 years and >heavy equipment whoes live
is measured in hours it is a problem. That is >why the say too much
pressure is not an assett to an engine.

Look, I'm just a farm boy that made it to kollidg...hence my references
to John Deeres...I just got off the phone with my ole buddy, the lead
mechanic at a JD dealer.  Realizing that farm diesels routinely run
4-6000 hours TBO, in less than pristine environments, should make them
comparable discussion material.  He said that sometimes seals can be
pushed aside with excess oil pressure, but he has never seen a case
where excess oil pressure has caused premature bearing wear.  He also
said if you want to see the effect of high oil pressure over time, look
at the diesel injection nozzle, which will wear.  But remember that the
discharge pressure at this point is somewhere around  1800 psi.  Now
such a nozzle is harder than bearing material, but even this part takes
several thousand hours to show wear requiring replacement.

FWIW.

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee/FL

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:25:56 -0400
Subject: RE: Weekend almost disaster

- ----------
From: 	Frank Boerger[COMPUSERVE:103454,317]
Sent: 	Friday, November 22, 1996 9:15 AM
To: 	'Dana and Mary Taylor'
Subject: 	RE: FW: Weekend almost disaster


> First: I do not believe that air in the o.p. gauge line will cause
> inaccurate pressure readings.

>For all practical purposes you are 99% right. The inaccracy is not
>revelant if even >noticable but it does not change the fact that air
will alter the reading. In >todays >guages it mouldn't even be
detectable.

Equilibrium.Equilibrium.Equilibrium.Equilibrium.Equilibrium.

I stand by my statement.


	> when the system reaches equilibrium that the gauge is reading the
>same as it would with or without air.
> Again right but it is the variations in pressure that the air will not
reflect the same as the oil.


> applied to the oil that stayed in the journal, and as it is replaced
with > new oil, the heat ends up in the oil pan.

>Yes, But if the oil is traveling too fast to accumulate the heat and
carry it >to the pan >bearing falure will result

Someone please repost ( privately) the "Why I don't want my coolant
circulating too fast" series.

If a molecule of oil is there picking up heat for one unit of time, then
two molecules traveling twice as fast will pick up each half the heat,
totalling the same amount of heat removed as by the one.  STP, and full
crankcases required.


Frank Boerger//Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:29:14 -0400
Subject: RE: Ignition Coil Theory

>Frank B. asks:
>
> Are you certain that the condenser is there to provide a momentary
burst of a > higher voltage ?  I though it was there to buffer the
points arc to preverve > them.

>Well, it's certainly not there to provide higher voltage; a condensor
can >only have as much potential (i.e., voltage) as is applied to it...

>I was always under the impression that it was there to prolong the
>voltage >change occurring in the primary winding of the coil, and it
makes sense >that way in a capacitor/coil circuit... maybe it provides
protection >to the points too, but I don't see how.

>And isn't there a condensor of some kind in an HEI?  It wouldn't be
there >for protection of the pickup, at least I don't think so.

>Now you got me thinkin... and that can be dangerous! :)

Tim:

See, I don't think that EFI has or needs a condenser...in an old
Chilton's or Motor's manual I once read, back when some mechanics would
mix-n-match condensers, they showed the way to determine if the
condenser was hooked backwards.  They would look to see if the spark
jumped from the wire to a pencil lead (graphite :)  ), and then to the
block.  That was right.  If the opposite happened, they said the
condenser was hooked up backwards.  Additionally, if the points one side
was humped (plated), and the opposite side was pitted (deplated), then
you had either too much or too little capacitance...you'd have to look
at an old book to read up on this, 'cause it's been some time for me.
That's why I thought the condenser was there to add longevity to the
points...sort of "buffer" the arc.

Just sumpin' I thought I remember reading once upon a time.

Frank Boerger //Tallahassee

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:45:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

Frank Boerger wrote:
>
> > Yes, But if the oil is traveling too fast to accumulate the heat and
 > > carry it to the pan bearing falure will result > > Someone please
repost ( privately) the "Why I don't want my coolant > circulating too
fast" series.

Gee, sorry, I think I threw it out.  Couldn't afford another disk drive
to keep it on.

> If a molecule of oil is there picking up heat for one unit of time,
> then two molecules traveling twice as fast will pick up each half the
> heat, totalling the same amount of heat removed as by the one.  STP,
> and full crankcases required.

I'm with ya, Frank.  But where did this "gotta circulate the oil to keep
 the engine cool" thing come from anyway?  Oil isn't circulated to keep
 the motor cool (that's the cooling system's job), it's circulated to
maintain lubrication and to keep the OIL cool.  You don't really want
the oil to pick up heat from the motor, do you?  If the oil gets too
hot, it lowers viscosity and its lubricating properties.  The whole
reason to install an oil cooler is to keep the OIL cool not the motor.
Eh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:58:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Ignition Coil Theory

Frank Boerger wrote:
>
> That's why I thought the condenser was there to add longevity to the
> points...sort of "buffer" the arc.

You are correct, sir.

(Though Spud and I have had an ongoing debate for the last few months as
 to which theories apply here.  Stay tuned for our much anticipated FAQ
 entitled "All you ever wanted to know about automotive ignition
systems right up to the point where you just want to barf".)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:21:29 -0400
Subject: Serpintine belts..was Re: Resto  Tips  ..... (correction and
new tip)

> This is one area where I must say the newer cars are a big
improvement: > the serpentine belts used nowadays are an absolute breeze
to install and > the spring-loaded tensioner means you don't have to try
and tension the > belt manually, use three hands to do it, worry whether
it's too tight and > the alternator bearing will fail, etc. For
emergencies, all you need to > carry in the trunk besides the
replacement belt (one, in most cases) is > one socket and wrench handle
(say, a pivoting-head breaker-bar). > > Would be interesting to develop
some sort of retrofit serpentine-belt > conversion for older engines...

	I've heard of people doing this sort of conversion on (dare I say)
f-bodies, since the ones made after 1987 or so came with them from the
factory.  Did Olds ever develope a full serpentine belt drive for a V8?
If so, it seems like it would be possible to retro-fit it to an older
one. On the conversion I was reading about, the guy had to shuffle some
of his accessories to make everything work, but it all came out ok.
	Or, if you're good at fabrication, it might be a fun (or maybe
nighmareish) to build or modify a setup.  Anybody ever try this?


				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:30:51 -0400
Subject: FW: Weekend almost disaster

The 66 Toro and Mike wrote:

>I'm with ya, Frank.  But where did this "gotta circulate the oil to
keep >the engine cool" thing come from anyway?  Oil isn't circulated to
keep >the motor cool (that's the cooling system's job), it's circulated
to >maintain lubrication and to keep the OIL cool.  You don't really
want the >oil to pick up heat from the motor, do you?  If the oil gets
too hot, it >lowers viscosity and its lubricating properties.  The
whole reason to >install an oil cooler is to keep the OIL cool not the
motor.  Eh?

Preachin' to the choir, Mike !

The previous poster said that if the oil pump pumped too fast, the
excess pressure could wear bearings, and the excess velocity would not
allow enough time for the oil to pick up heat, thereby promoting engine
overheating.

That's the crux of the discussion...

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee




- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@opihi.ohana.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:23:27 -0400
Subject: Parts wanted/for sale

Anyone have the control arm mount "supports" that run from the front
mount of the upper control arm to the front mount of the lower control
arm? This would be for a 72 Cutlass so any applicable year...

Also if anyone's doing a rebuild and needs standard size piston rings, I
have a set in the box, Sealed Power moly top rings, $40..

Maybe trade for the control arm braces?

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:46:26 -0400
Subject: RE: Mondello Cam

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD894.D3652040
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'd be interested if its a performance grind

- ----------
From: 	JOHN L. BERENYI[SMTP:berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com]
Sent: 	Friday, November 22, 1996 8:18 AM
To: 	Olds Digest
Subject: 	FS: Mondello Cam

This is a 45 deg lifter bank angle cam. Great street cam in the box.
Paid $105 sell for $75 or BO.  I have grinding specs if interested.
I decided to go 2 barrel instead.


Email me direct at: berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com


John




- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD894.D3652040
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IhMVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N
aWNy
b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAOAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIA
AAAL
AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG9sZHNtb2JpbGVA
Y2hl
YnVjdG8ubnMuY2EAU01UUABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNoZWJ1Y3RvLm5zLmNhAAAAAB4AAjABAAAA
BQAA
AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjaGVidWN0by5ucy5jYQAAAAMAFQwB
AAAA
AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjaGVidWN0by5ucy5jYScAAgELMAEA
AAAf
AAAAU01UUDpPTERTTU9CSUxFQENIRUJVQ1RPLk5TLkNBAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2
DwEA
AAAEAAAAAAAAAtg9AQSAAQARAAAAUkU6IE1vbmRlbGxvIENhbQBcBQEFgAMADgAAAMwHCwAW
ABAA
LgAaAAUAUQEBIIADAA4AAADMBwsAFgAQAC4ACAAFAD8BAQmAAQAhAAAAOURDQ0ZFNDQ4NjQ0
RDAx
MUFFRTE0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAAAcBA5AGAMwDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAA
AAAA
AwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCgXpycvti7AR4AcAABAAAAEQAAAFJFOiBNb25kZWxsbyBD
YW0A
AAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvYvpyTRP7MnkSGEdCu4URFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01U
UAAA
AAAeAB8MAQAAABEAAAB1cmJhbmNoQG1hZ2kuY29tAAAAAAMABhACJtflAwAHEEoBAAAeAAgQ
AQAA
AGUAAABJREJFSU5URVJFU1RFRElGSVRTQVBFUkZPUk1BTkNFR1JJTkQtLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJP
TTpK
T0hOTEJFUkVOWUlTTVRQOkJFUkVOWUlAVEVYQVNEU0VHVElDT01TRU5UOkZSSURBAAAAAAIB
CRAB
AAAARwIAAEMCAABIBAAATFpGdfmBm97/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4y
BgAG
wwKDMgPGBxMCg7ozEw19CoAIzwnZOxX/eDI1NQKACoENsQtgbvBnMTAzFCALChLyDAECYwBA
IEkn
ZCBi9GUgC4B0BJAHkBtwGwCLBpAbQHQEIGEgcASQdQIQcgOBYxswCcALgGSDCoUKi2xpMTQ0
AtE8
aS0fAwzQHwMLWTE21wqgA2AbcGMFQC0hpwqH1yBbDDAhJkYDYToiriEmAQyCIEpPSE4gTAAu
IEJF
UkVOWYBJW1NNVFA6GyAhFgBueWlAG3B4YQhzLmQR8GcudGnyLgWgbV0iTyNdBmACMAckjyWb
JEBp
ZGF5LDEHsG92ZQbQBJAgMgIyLdAxOTk2IDhoOjE4E3BNKV8jXVQmbyufJZtPbCiQIEQcaWcb
oS+P
Km51YmrXIWExryysUzagTQIgDbDCbBWQIENhbR2vCyh3FCIMATEHaAQAG0AcUjTkNSANsGcg
HuAB
gC5RWmIAcGscYBkAbBswY+s5YCbARxYAYQVAG7AJ0ccFQD5RG0EgdGgbMAbgtngmwDn1UAtw
GwAk
GSC3PNAR8DkQIBzBQSA3PNDZBbFCTybAGtAgEcAuENcdRAuAPRBzHJBjPFEcEX0bZy459ULQ
BYEt
kBvRdN05MGc5MBIgPaByFgADINsLgBuxYUT3OYxFAMADEfsHgDzgaRYAIXE+0DagJ7+HKMZH
nzoi
Sm9obku/Xzm/GcwhJk6VFSEAUXAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDgmJuRvti7AUAACDDg
mJuR vti7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AADJ/Q==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD894.D3652040--

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:35:54 -0400
Subject: Re: FW: Weekend almost disaster

>The previous poster said that if the oil pump pumped too fast, the
excess >pressure could wear bearings, and the excess velocity would not
allow enough >time for the oil to pick up heat, thereby promoting engine
overheating. > >That's the crux of the discussion...

Guys, the oil certainly carries off heat, and we know where the heat
comes from, and we would all agree that it's good to carry off the
engine heat one way or another, and once the oil does get heated you
need to help cool it down somewhat, for the benefit of _both_ the oil
_and_ the engine. I think we all need to get back to arguing about that
air bubble in the pressure gauge line.  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:12:21 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

At 05:06 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Mike wrote:
>>
lotsd of snips
>
>GG-1?

I would think that the GG1 was a DC locomotive, ie, that it actually
received DC power off the catenary!

No it was a much more modern loco, and if I remember (I was about 12 at
the time, in the mid-50s) it was painted for the New Haven RR.  Cab cab
look vaguely like the old EMD "F" series covered wagons, except it was
double ended.

>For example, the "cats wisker" diode of crystal radio fame.

Would a cats wisker provided a satisfactory circut for an alternator in
a car?  Actually I would doubt it.

>>While we are on the subject of generators, can you explain the
>> difference in operation between a "third brush" generator, and a "non
 >> third brush" generator? >Not without some research.  I have to read
through the chapters on >Dynamos in my 1924 copy of Audel's Handy Book
of Practical Electricity. >Really...

DELCO used a third brush generator for a lot of years.  My '30 Chevy has
one, as does the recently acquried '29 Viking.  Herein lies the source
of this question.  Apparantly the third brush is movable, thus allowing
for an increase or decrease of charging rate.

Cliff Feiler
Not Thomas A. Edison, Jr.,
or Albert Tesla, Jr.,
or Philo T. Farnsworth, Jr. either

P.S.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:28:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Off-topic, but... (Was Alternator Noise)

At 03:13 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
Snip>>
>
>For Wizkid:  Speaking of Pavrotti, I got a tape of him with a recent
>purchase of a bottle of Frangelico... ya want it? (the tape, not the
bottle :) ) > >It sort of looks out of place next to my Jimi, Janis, and
Doors tapes... :) > > >Tim (Bowing to Mike and Others Who's EE is
Fresher in Their Minds) Churchill >------------- >'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a.
'Der KinderWagen' >'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be
Replaced' > > You bet, but I'd take the bottle too.  Two years ago I
came down with diabetes milatius, and am allowd one hit a week, and of
course Frangelica is what that hit will be.

The Wizkid

P.S. You obviously have good tast to buy you Frangelica with Pavrotti.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:30:39 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

At 03:34 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> ...but I'll bet you don't know what a Johnson bar is?
>>
>> The Wiz
>
>Is it a candy bar? :-)
>
>Chris Sparks
>68 442
>
>
No.  But it transportation power related!

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:44:59 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

>> ...but I'll bet you don't know what a Johnson bar is?

Err, let's see...   The Johnson Bar?  Sounds like a 14 inch hunk of
chocolate coated caramel with peanuts...  When you're ~really~ hungry,
nothing satisfies like a Big Johnson!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:45:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Off-topic, but... (Was Alternator Noise)

  If fact, if you're frying speakers for no apparent
>reason, DC leakage may be the cause.
>
     Which leaves a puddle that is markedly different than leaking
light, cuz DC leaks only flow one direction, and light will drip
everywhere!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:42:21 -0400
Subject: RE: Weekend almost disaster

At 04:26 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>From: 	Frank Boerger[COMPUSERVE:103454,317]
>Sent: 	Friday, November 22, 1996 9:10 AM
>To: 	'Dana and Mary Taylor'
>Subject: 	RE: FW: Weekend almost disaster
>
>
>A pressure washer at 3 gpm and 1800 psi would have a hard time keeping
up with >the erosion that the Grand Canyon has experienced over the last
several thousane >years. >

Frank, I think you correct.  But I doubt the Grand Canyon was made by
the liquid wearing away the "plasticene alluevial."  I expect that the
greatest part of the erosion was caused by the leaching of the alluevial
into the water.  Erosion can be cause by either the direct wear or by
taking the solids into solution and then removing them.

I'm from Missouri on this, and the worn out engine from over oil
pressure too.  I absolutely agree with the Cummins study, and that there
has never been pre-mature bearing wear caused by high pressure (foaming
not a problem).


>
>Frank Boerger//Tallahassee/FL
>
Cliff Feiler
And I'd like to see this thread put to rest before the end of the 2nd
Milenium!

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:42:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Batten heads(long)

In a message dated 96-11-21 23:59:39 EST, you write:

<< Any info you can find out about the street iron heads would be
greatly
 appreciated, I have seen a few cars with the Batten billet heads but
they
 were strickly race cars and most of them were running in the 9's. Do
you
 know of anyone who is using or has used the street heads?? I am looking

 to get my car into the low 12's

 Thanks!!

 Steve
 71 Cutlass S 455 >>

 Ok Steve, I will tell you my set up.
 I have a 72 455 that i bored .030 over with torque plates.  I took the
crank
 and had it cross drilled and chamfered and the counter weights were
 deburred.  I am using the stock piston rods with F2323 TRW pistons
 with file fit plasma molly rings.  I have a Toronodo 5qt. pan with
windage
 trays and a crank scraper.  The oil pump is a melling Hv with toro
pickup
 from Mondello.  I am using a Cloyes double roller timing chain.  My cam
is
 a comp cam and the specs are as follow    at .050 duration intake 234
 and exhaust 244 the lift is 523 in and 518ex with a 110center line.
 advertise duration is 292.
 I am using Mondello 7400 roller rockers and standard TRW pushrods and
 TRW lifters.  I set the cam in at O degrees or called straight

 Back to the block, i had the block decked so that i have .017 thousands

 piston to deck clearance, and also using a Victor Gaskets for head
gaskets
 that measure .028 when compressed.  Felpro gaskets are .038 when
compressed.

 Now to the Heads,  I am using GA heads the have been milled .060 on
bottom
 and intake side to give me 73cc of volume.  The valves are Milodon
stainless
 steel intake 2.072 and exhaust 1.710 with a 5 angle valve job.  The
center
 divider
 on exhaust side was welded and milled smooth and # 3 and # 6 heat
risers
 were welded instead of using Mondellos Heat block mix.  The Heads also
 have been ported to remove egr bump and the bowls and exhaust polished.
 I recommend not polishing intake side for better Atomizing of the fuel.
 I am using the stock GM valley tray and the Stock W-30 aluminum intake.
 The carb is the Q-jet that i had a local shop bore the bottom .050 and
put in
 new
 shaft bushings.  I am using # 69 jets and 48b primary metering rods
with
 AX secondary metering rods with a K hangar.  The cfm rate is 795 cfm
and the

 carb # is 7042253.  I am also using the paper filter in the carb.  for
fuel
 system
 I am using a Holley Blue electric through stock fuel lines and using
the
 stock pickup and the regulator is set at 6.5 PSI. For exhaust i am
using
 Hooker headers with 1 7/8 primary tubes with a 3 inch full exhaust
 with Flowmaster 3 inch mufflers with 3 inch tail pipes.
 For ignition, i am using the MSD pro billet distributor and the MSD
blaster
 coil and the MSD 6A box with NGK 5670-6 spark plugs gapped at .040
 The wires are just Accel black 8mm wires. I am still using power
steering and

 the GM thermo clutch fan and a 160 degree thermostat. I am using 20w50
 Vavoline oil and a K&N 3.5 air filter.
 It is also important how you set up your car such as I am using the
stock
 posi
 rearend but with 4:10 gears and the th400 has a shift kit and I am
using
 a ATI treemaster torque converter that stalls at 3500 RPM.  I shift at
 5600RPM
 when i race this car.  If i drive the car without hot dogging it I get
about
 10mpg.
 This motor was built for street and strip.  I drove the car to Norwalk
 dragway
 which is 130 miles from my house and ran it that night with times of
12.40's
 consistently.  Anymore questions, I be glad to help.  By the way at
idle
 which is at 1000RPM I pull 15 inches of vacuum so you can run power
brakes,
 but my car is manual.   Other bits of advice is you can use a 460 Ford
 rear main seal which is same size as olds but is one piece and for the
pan
 gasket, use a 350 olds diesel because it has a steel shim to prevent
 squashing.
 DON'T USE THE MONDELLO CAM BUTTON it just cause premature wear.
 Also the Mondello 7400 roller rockers can be order direct from Jensel
out of

 the National Dragster at half the cost.

 Steve you dont need Batten heads to run 12's, just use your stock
heads and do what I have done.

W MACHINES@AOL.COM

W Machines(Mark Prince) 313 336-8135
72 442 W-30  from Detroit

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:52:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

At 07:45 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:

Snips>

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
>I'm with ya, Frank.  But where did this "gotta circulate the oil to
keep >the engine cool" thing come from anyway?  Oil isn't circulated to
keep >the motor cool (that's the cooling system's job), it's circulated
to >maintain lubrication and to keep the OIL cool.  You don't really
want the >oil to pick up heat from the motor, do you?  If the oil gets
too hot, it >lowers viscosity and its lubricating properties.  The
whole reason to >install an oil cooler is to keep the OIL cool not the
motor.  Eh? >

Actually you do.  There is an old rule of thumb, which states that 1/3
of the waste heat goes into the water, 1/3 into the exhaust, and 1/3
into the oil.  While these numbers are probably fairly obtuse, they have
been with us for a long time.  And yes you put on an oil cooler to cool
the oil, which has had 1/3rd of the engine's waste heat added.  It's all
waste heat removal.  You don't remove it, the engine will shortly come
to a stop on its own.

Cliff Feiler
Oldsmobilist

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:09:59 -0400
Subject: Excess Oil Pressure (was: Weekend almost disaster)

>At 04:26 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>

>I'm from Missouri on this, and the worn out engine from over oil
pressure >too.  I absolutely agree with the Cummins study, and that
there has never >been pre-mature bearing wear caused by high pressure
(foaming not a problem).

     Well, I've missed a majority of this thread, but since it's changed
this much, I'll give it a new name, and a couple of my counted pennies
as well.  The question seems to be whether excess pressure is likely to
cause premature bearing wear/failure.  I don't see this as being likely.
I can see an excess ~volume~ causing a bearing to "wash" out, but that
would result in a loss of pressure, so it would still be a different
topic.  If for some reason, the high pressure oil would be able to go
past the bearing at a high volume (excess clearances, warpage, etc.)
then the oil may, in fact, wash out some of the bearing material in the
high-flow areas.  I'm not sure if good clean oil will do this as badly,
but contaminated oil can make it a real problem.  I don't know if this
helps the question at all, but it gives me a tax-free way to spend my
two cents!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:10:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Off-topic, but... (Was Alternator Noise)

buehner wrote:
>
> Which leaves a puddle that is markedly different than leaking light,
> cuz DC leaks only flow one direction, and light will drip everywhere!

It is direct CURRENT, eh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:32:51 -0400
Subject: storing your car over winter (was Re: Spare parts/won't start)

> I can't think of how to keep moisture from building up and affecting
> your interior, apart from airing it out when possible.

You can get some of those Scilica Gel (sp?) packs they put in boxes
of new shoes and other places they don't want moisture.  I've also
heard that kitty litter will absorb moisture out of the air
(haven't tried this one).


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:33:08 -0400
Subject: re: radiator hose for a VW

> Did he recomend new muffler bearings or new johnson rods too?  8)
> Sounds kinda like telling you to get a new upper radiator hose for
> you VW Bug.

My favorite was always to call up Pep Boys (or whatever parts house
has recently fallen out of favour with you) and ask for a water pump
for a '63 Chevy Corvair.  (I've also heard it as a whatever year VW Bug)
The fun thing about going back to '63 is that lots of places don't have
that car on the computer (computer only goes back to around '75 as I'm
sure many of us have found out before).  They'll dig out the books
and spend extra time on it.  They can see other stuff for the car
so they know it exists, and it's Chevy, so they've got to have it,
right?  (heh, heh, heh)

- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:46:47 -0400
Subject: Oil -- another almost disaster

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> And I'd like to see this thread put to rest before the end of the 2nd
> Milenium!

OK, back to trivia:

When GM started a front company to take over the mass transit in the
major cities of the US, what was the color of the bus drivers hair?

The 66 Toro and Mike
	

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:44:24 -0400
Subject: More Oil Stuff  Was: Weekend almost disaster

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Actually you do.  There is an old rule of thumb, which states that 1/3
 > of the waste heat goes into the water, 1/3 into the exhaust, and 1/3
 > into the oil.  While these numbers are probably fairly obtuse, they >
have been with us for a long time.  And yes you put on an oil cooler to >
cool the oil, which has had 1/3rd of the engine's waste heat added. >
It's all waste heat removal.  You don't remove it, the engine will >
shortly come to a stop on its own.

The 1/3 rule seems more than just obtuse.  The same amount of heat goes
into the oil as goes out the exhaust?  No sale.  Sound like one of those
 little ditties teachers use that are easy to remember but wrong.

My point was that the oil is not there to remove heat -- though it no
doubt picks up some.  Once the engine reaches _equilibrium_, the
temperature of the oil (in the absence of the not-required-for-operation
 oil cooler) will remain fairly constant throughout the motor and will
provide little _cooling_ function.  Waste heat is removed primarily by
the exhaust followed by the cooling system.  Heat removal by the
lubrications system is negligable.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:52:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Excess Oil Pressure (was: Weekend almost disaster)

buehner wrote:
>
> I don't know if this helps the question at all, but it gives me a
> tax-free way to spend my two cents!  :)

But the problem remains as to how to tell if
that puddle on my floor is oil, light, or DC.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:54:50 -0400
Subject: Re: FW: Weekend almost disaster

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> I think we all need to get back to arguing about that
> air bubble in the pressure gauge line.  :-)

Is that what started this?  I thought it was that AMSOILL guy.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:26:34 -0400
Subject: [none]

Unsubscribe Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: jmartin@ny.frontiercomm.net
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:45:29 -0400
Subject: RE: 71-72 Parts

Hi,
  My name is John Martin and I am Looking for a lot of 1971parts , how
doese the Dash look on this car ?
                       write soon!!!

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:42:42 -0400
Subject: Power Beams

In the mid-60s, GM's Guide division made headlights that had the "T-3"
logo on them that are now prized for collectability. At some point in
the 1970's these were discontinued and they made sealed beams that were
 called "Power Beams" instead. I have these in my Skylark. I'm
wondering: are these halogen lamps or just an improved version of the
T-3?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:41:11 -0400
Subject: Re: storing your car over winter (was Re: Spare parts/won't
start)

At 07:32 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> I can't think of how to keep moisture from building up and affecting
>> your interior, apart from airing it out when possible.
>
>You can get some of those Scilica Gel (sp?) packs they put in boxes
>of new shoes and other places they don't want moisture.  I've also
>heard that kitty litter will absorb moisture out of the air
>(haven't tried this one).
>
>
>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products
Division >tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications
Corporation > > > Silica gel does have possibilities.  However, it
accumulates moisture (which physcially stays with the gel) and must be
renewed periodictly.

Cliff Feiler

Shell made a substance called V.P.I. paper (vapor phase inhibitor) which
may have some application too.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:46:18 -0400
Subject: Re: More Oil Stuff  Was: Weekend almost disaster

At 10:44 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>> Actually you do.  There is an old rule of thumb, which states that
1/3 >> of the waste heat goes into the water, 1/3 into the exhaust, and
1/3 >> into the oil.  While these numbers are probably fairly obtuse,
they >> have been with us for a long time.  And yes you put on an oil
cooler to >> cool the oil, which has had 1/3rd of the engine's waste
heat added. >> It's all waste heat removal.  You don't remove it, the
engine will >> shortly come to a stop on its own. > >The 1/3 rule seems
more than just obtuse.  The same amount of heat goes >into the oil as
goes out the exhaust?  No sale.  Sound like one of those >little
ditties teachers use that are easy to remember but wrong. > >My point
was that the oil is not there to remove heat -- though it no >doubt
picks up some.  Once the engine reaches _equilibrium_, the >temperature
of the oil (in the absence of the not-required-for-operation >oil
cooler) will remain fairly constant throughout the motor and will
>provide little _cooling_ function.  Waste heat is removed primarily by
>the exhaust followed by the cooling system.  Heat removal by the
>lubrications system is negligable. > >The 66 Toro and Mike > > >--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > Mike,

Before this gets a mile long, and gets far our of hand, I don't know for
sure, I'm guessing, however my original data on this subject came from a
top of the line expert on internal combustion engines.  I believe he
would argue that indeed, a substantial portion of the heat is removed
from the engine by the oil; while it may not the the r-of-t 33% it is
substantial.

Cliff

P.S. I'll leave it here, and defer to an expert on the subject if we
have one one line.  I would stipulate however, if his (the experts)
engine of choice is not a John Deere.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Excess Oil Pressure (was: Weekend almost disaster)

At 10:52 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>buehner wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if this helps the question at all, but it gives me a
>> tax-free way to spend my two cents!  :)
>
>But the problem remains as to how to tell if
>that puddle on my floor is oil, light, or DC.
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
You also need to determine whether it is standard or miniture; and when
it needs to go to the barber for a trim!

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:49:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil -- another almost disaster

At 10:46 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>> And I'd like to see this thread put to rest before the end of the 2nd
 >> Milenium! > >OK, back to trivia: > >When GM started a front company
to take over the mass transit in the >major cities of the US, what was
the color of the bus drivers hair? > >The 66 Toro and Mike >	 > >--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >     Tampa,
Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > Another trick question.  He was bald
from worry, and the unexpected competition from those Hungarian busses.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:53:19 -0400
Subject: Re: FW: Weekend almost disaster

At 10:54 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Andrew C. Green wrote:
>>
>> I think we all need to get back to arguing about that
>> air bubble in the pressure gauge line.  :-)
>
>Is that what started this?  I thought it was that AMSOILL guy.   ;)
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
If someone would have been smart enough (at least one of our college
student guys/or gals) to take all of this down, he/she would have enough
for two or three PHD papers; on the effects of an air bubble in an oil
line leading to either a bourdon tube, or a brake.  It 'outa make the
National Review.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:55:04 -0400
Subject: RE: 71-72 Parts

At 11:45 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi,
>  My name is John Martin and I am Looking for a lot of 1971parts , how
doese the Dash
>look on this car ?
>                       write soon!!!
>
>
>
Down right bored.

Gee Wiz

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:57:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Power Beams

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> In the mid-60s, GM's Guide division made headlights that had the "T-3"
> logo on them that are now prized for collectability.

Greg,

Whats with this collectability of T-3's? I HATE THEM!! Orange glowing,
milky, low intesity, poor light spreading, amperage suckers!!!

Whenever I add to the Toro stable, one of the first things I do is
change those terrible headlights out for halogens! I have boxes full of
them just waiting for to get thrown in the trash! Except for a few sets
of NOS that I will save "IF" I ever show my cars for points.(but I much
rather drive them)

At the moment, I'd rather see where I'm going at night than to be
headlight correct!

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:13:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Power Beams

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Greg Kalkhoff wrote:
> Whats with this collectability of T-3's? I HATE THEM!! Orange glowing,
milky, low > intesity, poor light spreading, amperage suckers!!!

Hey, Sparky, I never said I liked them! :) In fact, the reason for the
question was that one of the (original) T-3 hi-beams blew out in the
Cutlass this week and I had to replace it with a parts store number. If
the Power Beams were halogens I'd search out a set of those instead.

> Whenever I add to the Toro stable, one of the first things I do is
change those terrible > headlights out for halogens! I have boxes full
of them just waiting for to get thrown in > the trash! Except for a few
sets of NOS that I will save "IF" I ever show my cars for > points.(but
I much rather drive them)

Even if you hate them, don't trash them. T-3s are worth at least $5-$10
bucks each used... you could probably sell them thru here and make
enough cash for a few tanks of gas at least...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:18:30 -0400
Subject: Counting Dollars

Today was a good reason why I hate to tally up how much I have into my
cars. Last week I was going down a steep hill in the Cutlass, push the
brake pedal, and... nothing! Panic-striken, I see the red "Brake"
warning light on the dash and pump the pedal madly - finally, I get my
brakes back. Gingerly I make my way home and then, first thing next
morning, even more gingerly to my friendly garage. The verdict: master
cylinder bad, one bad wheel cylinder, other wheel cylinders seeping
fluid, front brake hoses not in good shape.

I picked it up today. Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a provincial
inspection that was due and a trans fluid and filter change that I
couldn't be bothered to do myself) totalled just over $600. Ouch! Now
you know why I don't want to add this stuff up!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:25:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Power Beams

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> Hey, Sparky, I never said I liked them! :)

I always knew you were a man of taste!  (:

> Even if you hate them, don't trash them. T-3s are worth at least
$5-$10 > bucks each used... you could probably sell them thru here and
make enough > cash for a few tanks of gas at least...

Hmmmm! Thanks for the tip. I'll have to scurry about and round them all
up. I have them stuffed everywhere!

Did I hear somewhere that someone was rebuilding T-3's? I have no clue
how they would do it as it is cast glass. I hope not, I threw 4 burned
out ones a few weeks ago!  ):

Sparky


>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:24:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 6 million$ for a 69 VC!!??

At 06:23 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> If the wheel opening moldings are the same as on other 68-69
Cutlasses >> you have to get them used, no repros are made that I know
of. They can >> be had - I saw in JWO that John Green of Toronto had
some for $45 each >> - but you do have to search a little for them. If
they are >> Vista-specific you are definitely talking salvage yard. >
>Must be tons of them lying around in Ecuador.   ;) > >The 66 Toro and
Mike > >Oh yes..there's TONS here..just looking for a good set..I'll
check out the 5 Toros I found here today to see if anything will
fit......  ;) >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3,
Incorporated >     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation &
Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > > >

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:28:52 -0400
Subject: Re: 6 million$ for a 69 VC!!??

At 02:53 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey Blair,
>
>My Uncle and Aunt used to live in Ecuador along with my Grandfather.
My >grandfather lived in Quito, and had a winter residence just south
of >Guyiaquil (sp?) on the coast up until about a year and a half ago
when he >was forced back to the U.S. because of heart trouble.  My
Uncle, was an >ambassador, was also one to Uraguay for a while, and
most recently to >Suriname.  Perhaps that was his car?  Hey, I don't
know, anything is >possible. > >Peace, Goodwill, and Happy
Oldsmobilling, >Clayton Pierce, >zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu > >Clayton:
 Very interesting...and I would say he would know the car.. I understand
it was owned by the US Embassy and not privately. It is yellow with a
black interior and few options..non-air car. Seemed like it was
specifically ordered for Quito as it has no options..less stuff to go
wrong. And it is the 9 pass. version so it would have been the ideal
Embassy car. Ask him if he remembers it. Blair

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:30:22 -0400
Subject: Re: More Oil Stuff  Was: Weekend almost disaster

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> P.S. I'll leave it here, and defer to an expert on the subject if we
> have one one line.  I would stipulate however, if his (the experts)
> engine of choice is not a John Deere.

Fair enough.  Referring subsequent posts to Oil Can Harry...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:32:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> I picked it up today. Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a
provincial > inspection that was due and a trans fluid and filter change
that I > couldn't be bothered to do myself) totalled just over $600.
Ouch!

What's that in real dollars, Greg?  $450?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:36:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser roof glass

At 01:03 AM 11/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Delk, Mitch S wrote:
>>
>> There was a fellow on this list looking for roof glass for his VC. If
he >> still needs it, I may know where he can get it. This car is a '72
I >> think. > >I also can get 70 VC roof glass if NH is closer. > >
>HI!
  I am the guy looking for the glass. The car and i are in
Ecuador(probably seen my recent mail here today and yesterday) So
shipping is a bit of a prob. Can you get this glass easily? How much and
can it be sent to a Florida address? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanx!  Blair  71 442 W30 Rag (Canada) 69 V.C.(Ec.)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:48:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Power Beams

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Hey, Sparky, I never said I liked them! :) In fact, the reason for the
> question was that one of the (original) T-3 hi-beams blew out in the
> Cutlass this week and I had to replace it with a parts store number.

Hey, Greg (B that is), if you want another T-3, I think I still have a
good one in the Toro if you want it.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:26:51 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Trivia

At 20:12 11/21/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>At 06:20 PM 11/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>C.R.F. wrote:
>>>
>>> A few more GM trivia questions:
>>1. Dunno.>>>>2. Aurora.>>>>3. Dunno.>>>>4. Dunno.>>>>5. I forget.
>>
>>The 66 Toro and Mike
>>
>>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>>
>Exactly, and in this league one out of five ain't bad.
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Cliff aka WizKid

Hey Mike,
  Sounds like he has his torch on high flame to me....
>

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 01:11:39 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Trivia

Brad Baker wrote:
>
> >Exactly, and in this league one out of five ain't bad.
> >             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >Cliff aka WizKid
>
> Hey Mike,
> Sounds like he has his torch on high flame to me....

Think so?  That's OK.  I always wear Nomex when
emailing.  You have to ...in this league.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:34:39 -0400
Subject: Re: More on motor mounts-correction

>It is very unlikely that the engine mounts are made of rubber, but
rather a >oil resistant synthetic such as neoprene.  Take an old piece
of natural >rubber, like a piece of inner tube, and put it in some
gasoline for say an >hour.  What you have a mere hour later isn't much. >
I'd have to disagree.  Here at Goodyear, 100% of our engine mounts are
made of natural rubber with a dozen or so additives which affect the
damping rate and durability of the mount.  While we still do some
conventional mounts, the majority of what we build are Hydromounts:
glycol filled engine mounts tuned to dampen out certain frequencies.
These mounts are on the Taurus, many Cadillacs, and the Aurora, just to
name a few.  All these mounts use the aforementioned natural rubber.

Now, all I can speak for are current Goodyear production mounts going
onto new models.  Perhaps other mounts are made of neoprene or whatever,
but I've never run across such mounts.  I don't know of any synthetic
material that would hold up to the abuse that engine mounts go through.
If anyone has hard facts on such sythetic materials used in engine
mounts, please speak up!

- -Aaron

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:42:20 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

>>> ...but I'll bet you don't know what a Johnson bar is?

Same as a panhard bar??

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 01:47:21 -0400
Subject: Re: New mechanic or new alternator...was Re: Altenator noise

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Would a cats wisker provided a satisfactory circut for an alternator
in > a car?  Actually I would doubt it.

So would I.  I wasn't offering it as a replacement for an alternator
diode, just as an example of the existance of a pre-tube era diode.
But then you knew that didn't you.

> DELCO used a third brush generator for a lot of years.  My '30 Chevy
> has one, as does the recently acquried '29 Viking.  Herein lies the
> source of this question.  Apparantly the third brush is movable, thus
> allowing for an increase or decrease of charging rate.

I'll check my archives from that period.  I don't have any Chevy or
Viking stuff but some Winton, Pope, Maxwell, etc. plus some really
ancient electronic books.  Maybe one of them will mention such a
critter. Could have been some sort of adjustment but how it was applied
depends on series, shunt (ancient terminology), or compound winding and
other gobble-de-gook.  Will advise.

The 66 Toro and Mike

> Cliff Feiler
> Not Thomas A. Edison, Jr.,
> or Albert Tesla, Jr.,
> or Philo T. Farnsworth, Jr. either

How 'bout P T Barnum?


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:01:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 12:32 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> I picked it up today. Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a
provincial >> inspection that was due and a trans fluid and filter
change that I >> couldn't be bothered to do myself) totalled just over
$600. Ouch! > >What's that in real dollars, Greg?  $450? > >The 66 Toro
and Mike > > >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3,
Incorporated >     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation &
Communication >     (813) 210-8649
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > > According to earlier posts today, if
he was from Ecuador he'd need to be a multi-millionaire to afford that,
probably need to spend a million and a half just to fix it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:06:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > I picked it up today. Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a
provincial > > inspection that was due and a trans fluid and filter
change that I > > couldn't be bothered to do myself) totalled just over
$600. Ouch! > > What's that in real dollars, Greg?  $450?

Good guess, I think. Somewhere between $400-$450 US. Still a big ouch.

Of the total, ($620 Cdn.) parts were almost $300 alone. The surprise was
 the wheel cylinders, $40-$50 each. Checked my parts catalogs and that
seems the going rate. Add 4 hours labor and about $100 tax and it's easy
 to see where the $600 came from.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:11:11 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Trivia

At 07:26 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 20:12 11/21/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>At 06:20 PM 11/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>>C.R.F. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A few more GM trivia questions:
>>>1. Dunno.>>>>2. Aurora.>>>>3. Dunno.>>>>4. Dunno.>>>>5. I forget.
>>>
>>>The 66 Toro and Mike
>>>
>>>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>>>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>>>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>>>
>>Exactly, and in this league one out of five ain't bad.
>>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Cliff aka WizKid
>
>Hey Mike,
>  Sounds like he has his torch on high flame to me....
>>
>
>Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
>bradbaker@worldnet.att.net
>
>
No sir, no flame at all.  There are very few correct answers coming
thru, and one in five really is excellent.  You'll know if you've been
flamed (I promise).  I get a kick out of the answers, even the near
misses.  There is a wealth of knowledge here, but I expect that there is
more reading than promoting, so we don't hear from too many.  And some
of the trivia questions are fairly far afield!  The Aurora answer being
one.  However, I really expect that it was borrowed by Olds from the
U.S.A.F. or N.A.S.A., or whom else the flying Aurora belongs to, in the
hope that when the flying Aurora becomes better known the car name will
have a bit of extra panache, even though it fairly well flys for itself.

When you've got an answer throw it out, you might get corrected fo
rtrying, but never a flame; right now I'll leave that to the av gas
guys.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:03:45 -0400
Subject: RE: 71-72 Parts

>Hi,
>  My name is John Martin and I am Looking for a lot of 1971parts , how
doese the Dash
>look on this car ?

Not as good as the one in my '69.  ;)
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:11:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

>The surprise was
>the wheel cylinders, $40-$50 each. Checked my parts catalogs and that
>seems the going rate.

I got all four of mine for about $27-$30 each.  Probably about right
considering that fake money ya'll use up there...
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:22:21 -0400
Subject: Re: More on motor mounts-correction

At 10:34 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>It is very unlikely that the engine mounts are made of rubber, but
rather a >>oil resistant synthetic such as neoprene.  Take an old piece
of natural >>rubber, like a piece of inner tube, and put it in some
gasoline for say an >>hour.  What you have a mere hour later isn't much.
>> >I'd have to disagree.  Here at Goodyear, 100% of our engine mounts
are made >of natural rubber with a dozen or so additives which affect
the damping rate >and durability of the mount.  While we still do some
conventional mounts, >the majority of what we build are Hydromounts:
glycol filled engine mounts >tuned to dampen out certain frequencies.
These mounts are on the Taurus, >many Cadillacs, and the Aurora, just to
name a few.  All these mounts use >the aforementioned natural rubber. >
>Now, all I can speak for are current Goodyear production mounts going
onto >new models.  Perhaps other mounts are made of neoprene or
whatever, but I've >never run across such mounts.  I don't know of any
synthetic material that >would hold up to the abuse that engine mounts
go through.  If anyone has >hard facts on such sythetic materials used
in engine mounts, please speak up! > >-Aaron > > _____ >|  |  |* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * >|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  * >|  |  |
neumann.12@osu.edu           * >| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
>|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	 > > > Aaron,

I suppose you're in disagreement with the artificial rubber statement,
not the dip natural rubber in gasoline part! I've done that that, and it
literally goes to mush, almost right before your eyes.

Do the additives, you mentioned, to the natural rubber reform the
molecule, or just inhibit the destruction that can be caused by such
petroleum products as gasoline?

There is a high percentage of natural rubber in truck tires, and when in
a petroleum environment they deterioriate, from what I believe is the
oil product contact.

Not to mention what happens to the rubber heels on shoes.

Thanks for the input.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:35:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 11:11 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>The surprise was
>>the wheel cylinders, $40-$50 each. Checked my parts catalogs and that
>>seems the going rate.
>
>I got all four of mine for about $27-$30 each.  Probably about right
>considering that fake money ya'll use up there...
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@gate.net
>

Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in "Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the $27. to $50. range!

Also, a good friend had his early disc brake Corvette four piston
calipers hard chromed, and then lightly honed, and he said they now
lasted more than 20 years.  Early on they needed to be replaced by new
every other pad change or so?

Cliff Feiler
Just Curious

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:51:49 -0400
Subject: Oldsminutia

To all the help on my 455 project thanks.  I have the G & GA heads
coming, and hopefully they match.  As soon as there reworked I'll start
building.

The people that added to the broad spectrium of Olds engine parts
interchangeability was very useful.  I've been into a dozen Olds engines
of the late '60s to '84 period, and had never seen a 7/16th " head bolt,
they were all 0.50", so that was interesting information to watch out
for.  And I've never seen inside a 400 or a 425 either.  75% of the Olds
engines I worked with in that period were 350 diesels coming out, and
whatever going back in.  The back in's included one 350 diesel (nuts),
several gas 350's, a 403 and a couple of 455's, and there were amazingly
alike machanically.  The only other was a 307 out and a 455 in, my car.
The 307 is still under my bench as removed, save for the brackets,
pullys and accessories which went right back on the 455 going in.

The use of a Ford rear seal and Olds diesel parts was also noted for use
on this new build up.

So thanks guys for the help.

Cliff Feiler
Still Oldsmobiling

------------------------------

From: Scholar <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:20:42 -0400
Subject: ALTERNATOR mystery

SInce there seems to be several alternator contasours on the list...i
figured i'd throw in my alternator problem!

Problem alternator failure every other month or so...
Car 88 Calias Quad 4

Now mind you the car has just over 170K, and up to this point i've
replaced many alternators...i lost count some where around 10. I 've had
the thing tested at the alternator shop several times and nothing...now
what could be causing all this? Mind you this car is run up to 7000 rpm
daily. the original one lasted till 105K. Just lucky i've only had to
pay for 2 of these thanks to good warranties!

Help
Jeff

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 03:30:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

The Wiz wrote:
>
> According to earlier posts today, if he was from Ecuador he'd need to
> be a multi-millionaire to afford that, probably need to spend a
million > and a half just to fix it.

ARF!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:16:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars


The verdict: master cylinder bad, one bad wheel cylinder, other wheel
cylinders seeping fluid, front brake hoses not in good shape.

     ...answers to the name of Lucky.....

     Ba-da-boomp


     Joe (trying to get into the spirit of wacky Friday) Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:28:31 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Counting Dollars

...a good friend had his early disc brake Corvette four piston calipers
hard chromed, and then lightly honed, and he said they now lasted more
than 20 years...

     Apparently, GM learned from the four-piston caliper fiasco.  For
those
     who haven't had them apart, the single-piston calipers (69-72+)
have
     the rubber seal fixed in a grove in the caliper; the piston is
     completely smooth and slides in the seal.  They have further
chromed
     the piston to prevent corrosion.  I was surprized the first time I
     took one apart for rebuilding.  The piston looked quite rusty and I

     was ready to get new ones when I tried to polish it with steel
wool.
     It cleaned up completely with no evidence of any pitting.  All the
     "rust" on the piston was actually just rust stain from the caliper.

     Of course I had to hone the caliper, and there was some residual
     pitting, however since the ID of the caliper is not a sealing
surface,
     the pitting did not affect the braking.  Replacing the seal and
     reassembling the caliper completed the job.  The units have worked
     great for years on my 70.  I always upgrade to the later
single-piston
     floating units (safety over originality any day).

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 07:04:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Today was a good reason why I hate to tally up how much I have into my
> cars. Last week I was going down a steep hill in the Cutlass, push the
> brake pedal, and... nothing! Panic-striken, I see the red "Brake"
warning > light on the dash and pump the pedal madly - finally, I get my
brakes > back. Gingerly I make my way home and then, first thing next
morning, > even more gingerly to my friendly garage. The verdict: master
cylinder > bad, one bad wheel cylinder, other wheel cylinders seeping
fluid, front > brake hoses not in good shape. > > I picked it up today.
Parts, labor, supplies and tax (plus a provincial > inspection that was
due and a trans fluid and filter change that I > couldn't be bothered to
do myself) totalled just over $600. Ouch! Now you > know why I don't
want to add this stuff up! > > Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Greg,

I'll try to be honest.  I gave some figures on my '68 442 mostly because
I have so little in it.  I have a Buick GS 455 w/over $5000 in it.  The
truth is I don't care as I love the cars.  I'll put a lot more in them
as time goes by & the market will finally fall.  I don't are - I'm not
selling - I'm enjoying - I try not to spend any needed money on them.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 01:08:01 -0400
Subject: Re:  Vista Cruiser vs. $$$

Whatever happened to the Shelby that was Japanized?  Did your brother
drop dead of shock (if)(when) you told him about it?


I have a guy who's got quite a collection of Vista's - he's in Canada
(heck your in South America to begin with, what s going north another
country for parts)


He's Richard Glista - 416/775-OLDS.


He's had everything I've inquired about.  Check out Bryceman's Owner's
Registry (a link off my web page) and look at Roger's Cutlass Cruiser -
its 2 tone.  Mine is all one color (I took off the wood grain).


Good luck & ENJOY!!

Lisa Madsen


<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 &
'72 Vista Cruiser

</color>

Please E-Mail me at-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Lisa@hotglass.com

</color></bold>

My Web-Page-----:
<bold><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/</col
or></bold>

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 07:10:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

>
> Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in > "Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of > the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the > $27. to $50. range! > > Also, a good friend
had his early disc brake Corvette four piston calipers > hard chromed,
and then lightly honed, and he said they now lasted more than > 20
years.  Early on they needed to be replaced by new every other pad
change > or so? > > Cliff Feiler > Just Curious

Cliff,

White Post Restorations in VA is the usual one mentioned.  They get
about $50 each & then you rebuild them.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:27:00 -0400
Subject: test (delete)

I haven't received any mail since 1 pm this afternoon.  just checking to
 see if the list is still active.

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 04:20:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

C.R.F. wrote:

> Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in > "Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of > the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the > $27. to $50. range!

Chris,

I don't understand why Brass? Brass oxidizes/pits too!

All the Concours cars and big time collector/restorers use a stainless
steel sleeve. Now, THAT will last as long as the car! Brass, in this
application, is no panasea!!!

I work with brass very often. It only lasts if it is lacquered!
Otherwise it gets a patina. Beyond that, its soft (relatively
speaking).

Now, to the cost effectiveness. Wheel cylinders generally go bad when
they sit for long periods of time or the brake fluid becomes.....well,
lets say old. When I say bad, two things can happen, the
cylinder/piston itself becomes pitted and leaks, or the seals get hard
and leak. Both of which are more common in a car that sits most of its
life (like a show car).

If you drive your car regularly, use the OEM cylinders. If they leak,
just rebuild them. Kits are way cheaper than new ones and they work.
You just have to make sure you hone the cylinder correctly. I used to
be against rebuilds, but since Iv'e become Toronado poor, I am
becomming thrifty!

If brass is so good why don't thay make exhaust pipes and brake lines
out of it! NOT!!

Brass is good stuff, don't get me wrong, but not the best alloy (copper
& zink) for this job.

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:30:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 03:30 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The Wiz wrote:
>>
>> According to earlier posts today, if he was from Ecuador he'd need to
 >> be a multi-millionaire to afford that, probably need to spend a
million >> and a half just to fix it. > >ARF! > >The 66 Toro and Mike >
 > >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > Didn't the guy
say he paid 6,000,000 for the '72 V.C.

Sounds damned pricey to me.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:32:22 -0400
Subject: Request for Correspondence ?

Guys (and Gals),

Got this bit of unsolicited email tonight and thought I'd pass it along
in case anyone wanted to him up on the offer...

>From: KBROOM@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:25:30 -0500
>Subject: 64 F-85
>
>My Grandfather has a restored 64 F-85 and is looking to hear from other
F-85 >owners.  He is a member of the National Oldsmobile Club of America
Fox Valley >Chapter.  If you could drop him a line, I would appreciate
it.  Please Write: > >A.J. Fohrman >P.O. Box 431 >S. Elgin, Ill  60177

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:36:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 07:10 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in >> "Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of >> the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the >> $27. to $50. range! >> >> Also, a good
friend had his early disc brake Corvette four piston calipers >> hard
chromed, and then lightly honed, and he said they now lasted more than
>> 20 years.  Early on they needed to be replaced by new every other pad
change >> or so? >> >> Cliff Feiler >> Just Curious > >Cliff, > >White
Post Restorations in VA is the usual one mentioned.  They get >about $50
each & then you rebuild them. > >Bill Culp >Decatur, Alabama > > Thanks
Bill,

I think that is the firm mentioned.  If anyone has used them it might be
useful information.

Cliff
aka The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:34:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Counting Dollars

At 12:28 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>...a good friend had his early disc brake Corvette four piston calipers
hard >chromed, and then lightly honed, and he said they now lasted more
than 20 >years... >

Snip>>

Joe says,

>     I always upgrade to the later single-piston
>     floating units (safety over originality any day).
>
>     Joe Padavano
>     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>     66 442
>     68 W-30
>     69 H/O
>     70 W-30
>
>
I doubt they are short on safety.  But I do understand that they are
very hard to come by these days.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:34:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 03:30 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The Wiz wrote:
>>
>> According to earlier posts today, if he was from Ecuador he'd need to
 >> be a multi-millionaire to afford that, probably need to spend a
million >> and a half just to fix it. > >ARF! > >The 66 Toro and Mike >
 > >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > Didn't the guy
say he paid 6,000,000 for the '72 V.C.

Sounds damned pricey to me.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:40:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 04:20 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>
>> Has anyone ever had their wheel cylinder lined? An outfit that
advertises in >> "Hemmings" puts in a hard brass sleeve that they claim
will last the life of >> the car.  It might be cost effective with wheel
cylinders costing in the >> $27. to $50. range! > >Chris, > >I don't
understand why Brass? Brass oxidizes/pits too! > >All the Concours cars
and big time collector/restorers use a stainless steel sleeve. >Now,
THAT will last as long as the car! Brass, in this application, is no
panasea!!! > >I work with brass very often. It only lasts if it is
lacquered! Otherwise it gets a >patina. Beyond that, its soft
(relatively speaking). > >Now, to the cost effectiveness. Wheel
cylinders generally go bad when they sit for long >periods of time or
the brake fluid becomes.....well, lets say old. When I say bad, two
>things can happen, the cylinder/piston itself becomes pitted and leaks,
or the seals get >hard and leak. Both of which are more common in a car
that sits most of its life (like a >show car). > >If you drive your car
regularly, use the OEM cylinders. If they leak, just rebuild them.
>Kits are way cheaper than new ones and they work. You just have to make
sure you hone >the cylinder correctly. I used to be against rebuilds,
but since Iv'e become Toronado >poor, I am becomming thrifty! > >If
brass is so good why don't thay make exhaust pipes and brake lines out
of it! NOT!! > >Brass is good stuff, don't get me wrong, but not the
best alloy (copper & zink) for this >job. > >Sparky > >-- >Greg
Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile >AKA  "Sparky"
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html >Milwaukee, WI > > Sparky,

Good question, why brass?  It is what I remember them advertising.
Stainless does make more sense.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:37:55 -0400
Subject: Re:  Vista Cruiser vs. $$$

At 01:08 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Whatever happened to the Shelby that was Japanized?  Did your brother
drop dead of shock (if)(when) you told him about it? > >I have a guy
who's got quite a collection of Vista's - he's in Canada (heck your in
South America to begin with, what s going north another country for
parts) > >He's Richard Glista - 416/775-OLDS. > >He's had everything
I've inquired about.  Check out Bryceman's Owner's Registry (a link off
my web page) and look at Roger's Cutlass Cruiser - its 2 tone.  Mine is
all one color (I took off the wood grain). > >Good luck & ENJOY!! >Lisa
Madsen > >Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser >
>Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com > >My Web-Page-----:
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/ > Some one still does Japaning?

Cliff Feiler
A ha, who?

------------------------------

From: mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu (Melissa Dawn Barberree)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:39:45 -0400
Subject: W-30 Intake or not?

Unsolved Mystery:  I've got an intake that's got "Olds 455" written
between the carburetor and the thermostat housing.  It's aluminum.  Is
this a W-30 intake?

thanks,
Luke

------------------------------

From: mdbarb@whale.st.usm.edu (Melissa Dawn Barberree)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:43:00 -0400
Subject: Headers

This concerns my '70 4-4-2 with a 455.  I don't know what kind of
headers are on it, but they are rubbing the brake lines on the driver's
side. Does any after-market company make headers that do not?  If not,
I'm going to put some original manifolds on it.




(btw... in  a previous message I posted (W-30 Intake or not?), I forgot
to mention that the post concerns my '70 4-4-2 as well).


thanks,
luke

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 05:49:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Barnstormers--Me too!

>I feel compelled to share my story.
 <snip>

I guess I have to share my "one that got away" too...  About a year ago,
a friend wanted me to help him find a car like mine (mid 80's Cutlass)
I said I'd see what I could do, and drove him around town to all the
places I knew of where any of these cars have been sitting for a while
(always a good thing to keep an eye on...)  We came upon an '81 that
hadn't moved under it's own power in years, (but had shifted position a
time or two...)  I kinda knew the owners, and knew that the 260 that it
came with had a cracked head (which was caused by an owner with a
similar problem) but that he had planned on "fixin' er up, someday..."
You know, they are all that way... Anyway, we decided to ask about it
anyway, just in case.  He said we were just in time, 'cuz he was calling
the salvage lot the next week to come get it!  $50 and my friend towed
it home that day!  Body straight.  Interior perfect (just needed
detailing)  Power windows, etc.  Windshield and headlights had been
smashed by vandals :( but overall, car was in really decent shape
~especially~ for a freshman's first car!  The next week, he found a '78
Delta with a 403, for $150, and started building his car. Some touch up
paint, and new carpet (just being picky) and he had a ~really~ nice car,
for dirt cheap!  It was also hard to beat, even with the 2.29's in
there!  I've always kicked myself for not asking about the car for
myself earlier, but such is life, another one got away:(  It sufferred
the lacking TLC syndrome, though, and wound up with a couple rods wedged
up against the crossmember.  I'll leave the rest up to individual
imaginations, because I don't think he'll ever tell us what ~really~
happenned!  Anyway, the goldmines ~are~ out there, they just have to be
recognized, and dug up...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 08:39:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Request for Correspondence ?

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Rich Inacker wrote:
<snip>
> >My Grandfather has a restored 64 F-85 and is looking to hear from
other F-85 > >owners.  He is a member of the National Oldsmobile Club of
America Fox Valley > >Chapter.  If you could drop him a line, I would
appreciate it.  Please Write: > > > >A.J. Fohrman > >P.O. Box 431 > >S.
Elgin, Ill  60177

Man, if he wants correspondence, all he has to do is get a PC and a mail
 account, and join this place... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 08:41:26 -0400
Subject: 200 4R Transmission (fwd)

This was sent to me for some reason, but should have gone to the list
instead. Lots of good info here.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:23:22 -0400
From: Loyd Bonecutter <loydb@enteract.com>
To: modell@isc.mds.lmco.com
Cc: "Greg Beailieu (Olds Mail Sysop)" <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>,
    76057.1404@CompuServe.COM
Subject: 200 4R Transmission

Troubles with the 200 4R is mainly cased by people who work on them
having no clue, about this unit.  Qualified transmission guys are few
and far in between.

Anyway the mid 80's 200-4R suffered in certain hi-Po applications, but
do not confuse them with the TH 200 the folks on the mailing list
complain about.  Totally different design and hydraulics.  Unfortunately
there are a few advantages and disadvantages in the stock design, which
I will copy from "Turbo Buick Newsletter - The Source"  (please don't
choke GN's need strong trannys too).

A well built 400 2R will handle 400 ft. lbs. of torque or 600 HP, that
it takes to launch a G body into the mid 10's.  It's limitation is the
size of the case which keep the surface area of the clutches too small
for more torque, in the long term.  Level 10 (a race team) indicated
replacing with a 700 4R, caused 1/4 mile times go down 0.8 sec in a
quarter due increase in rotating mass, and weight of the car.  These
units have better gearing than other 4 speed units, including the 4th
gear resulting in better overall mileage.

One problem area is cases of 84 and older units, should be replaced with
85 and up units to prevent the splines from ripping out of the sun
shell.  The newer cases are 0.03 in. thicker which prevent this problem.
(Maybe one of the rebuilt units was older), you never know.

P: The front pump stator shaft splines strip off.  S:  Replace with
hardened stator shaft, when ever rebuilding.

P:  Poorly implemented pressure rise system, so its clutch holding power
above 4000 rpm is inadequate.  This casues "flashing" between gears
Between gears, the transmission will seem to "let loose" and the engine
will over rev.
S:  Check the mechanical adjustments first.  Check the side servo band
clearance which should be 0.06.  If this is correct, the hydraulic
system must be accelerated to keep the pressure adequate at a high RPM.
Replace the line bias valve spring with a stiffer unit.  Also ther are
now 10 vane pumps to replace the stock 7 vane pump, that should be a
part of any rebuild

P:  The trans oil filter slides directly into the pump and subsquently
leaks at this point.  This may cause the pump to lose prime for a split
second, which can lead to failure.
S:Look for newest filter and grommet design such as Sealed Power
#4402827 which has a zero leak bond.  Has an SP on the box.

These solutions to problems and several other 200 4R rebuild tricks are
available in the March/April 1993 Source (Volume 6, Number 2)  available
through 215-535-8336.  These are very helpful car guys.

Another addition gets into part numbers of Hi-Po components that should
be on the transmissions on a TR (Turbo Regal), which may be in common
with the higher performance 442.  The trouble is that the GM exchange
program may have replaced your unit with a common 200 4R unit, that is
doomed to fail. There are over $800 worth of parts (mainly the valve
body) that make a TR transmission strong enough to survive the torque.
Be sure to get an additional oil cooler for the transmission, to help it
live a long life. Maybe use an after market shift kit to harden the
shifts, thus minimise wear on the weak 2nd gear band and reduce
operating temperature.

Important part nos.
Valve body 8669987 ($640 from GM, many times a heavy duty diesel unit is
installed, but has wrong shift points)

Correct TR Transmission is labeled BR-F with yellow (early) or pink
(Later) tag near output shaft.

The best stock 200-4R parts:
Seperator Plate 8657309
Governor 8655976 (for 3.42 gear ratio)
2nd gear band is adjustable and must have correct pins:
 1 groove pin (shorest) 8632973
 2 groove pin  8632974
 3 groove pin 8632975
 No groove pin 8632976
Servo:
  Cover 8678932
piston outer 8678941
piston inner 8768935
intermediate cushon spring 8639264
inner spring 8632147
main line booster 8642940

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts wanted/for sale

Paul,
I've got a pair of the braces you requested. If you haven't found them
elsewhere, Email me at my address.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:59:08 -0400
Subject: Re: W-30 Intake or not?

YES!  It's from a 71 442 W30.  If you don't want it....

Kurt
71 442
>
> Unsolved Mystery:  I've got an intake that's got "Olds 455" written
> between the carburetor and the thermostat housing.  It's aluminum.  Is
> this a W-30 intake?

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:27:36 -0400
Subject: Re:  Vista Cruiser vs. $$$

At 01:08 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Whatever happened to the Shelby that was Japanized?  Did your brother
drop dead of shock (if)(when) you told him about it? >Saving the story
for Xmas when I go home to Canada...and I will have pics of it
then..want to SEE his expression...it'll be worthit. >I have a guy who's
got quite a collection of Vista's - he's in Canada (heck your in South
America to begin with, what s going north another country for parts) >
>He's Richard Glista - 416/775-OLDS. >Thanks..will give him a call..
>He's had everything I've inquired about.  Check out Bryceman's Owner's
Registry (a link off my web page) and look at Roger's Cutlass Cruiser -
its 2 tone.  Mine is all one color (I took off the wood grain).
>Yes..that might be the best idea..paint it and then the woodgrain could
be put on at a later date.. >Good luck & ENJOY!! >Lisa Madsen > >Heavy
Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser > >Please E-Mail me
at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com > >My Web-Page-----:
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/ > Thanks!!! Blair..Quito , Ecuador.."Middle of
the World">

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:27:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Counting Dollars

At 03:30 AM 11/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The Wiz wrote:
>>
>> According to earlier posts today, if he was from Ecuador he'd need to
 >> be a multi-millionaire to afford that, probably need to spend a
million >> and a half just to fix it. > >ARF! > >The 66 Toro and Mike >
 > >-- >Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated >
Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication >     (813)
210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/ > > >I  AM a
millionare...in Ecuadorian currency that is..and yes correct..about a
million and half to spend......  ;) >

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:32:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: My little olds expense list

At 12:28 PM 11/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Also, get a 4 point chain, instead of a 2 point.  And, buy some grade 8
 >bolts for use as the lift points on the block.  Safety insurance
worth a >couple extra bucks! > >David Brown
Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu >Olds FAQ 2.0 at:
http://www.en.com/users/thall/ >
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds > >------------- >Well, actually, I
went SOMEWHERE ELSE (more reputable) to get the second >one.  The good
one was about 45 to 60 miles away from my house, so I had >decided to
rent one at the local small-town rental place.  Let this be a >lesson
to you-all!!  YOu can learn from  MY mistakes. > >Clayton Pierce > > >
Do you really think Gr. 8 bolts are necessary.  If he is lifting with
0.25" hardware a Gr. 3 (sort of the base standard, non junk hardware;
and usually about 1/4th the price of Gr. 8) has a shear of about 3000#,
and with 3/8" it goes to about 6600#.  Even imported, junk absolutely
base Gr. 1 bolts will be in the 2000# (1/4") to 4000# (3/8) range each.

Gr. 8 does have the advantage of bringing these figures to about 6800
for the 1/4", and 15,000# for the 3/8s. One Gr. 8 x 1/4" bolt will lift
two 442's with driver before failing.

When you consider that you can just about lift an entire Cutlass before
even (1 ea 1/4") junker Gr. 1 will shear, you have maybe suggested a bit
of overkill, when one considers the excess cost of Gr. 8 hardware.

To take advantage of the improved qualities of hardware as its "Grade"
increases, Gr. 5, at about 1/2 the price of a Gr. 8 will provide several
times the ample margin of safety.  I doubt the heaviest a fully trimmed
engine w/transmission attached is going to weight very much over 1000#.
A mere pair of 1/4" Gr. 5 bolts should be able to lift over 3 tons
before the first set back occurs.

Also the nut, which in this case is a fitting done in the engine
casting, is not going to have anything like the same structural value of
a Gr. 8 bolt. So actually a Gr. 5 has a bit of overkill too.  I would
suggest using at least 3/8" hardware when lifting, because of the
improved purchase of the larger bolt in the "cast iron" nut.  If the
engine being lifted still has the factory lifting eyes use those instead
of threading into holes in the block.

Hardware Grade can be determined by the number of radial lines accross
the head of the bolt.  A Gr. 8 bolt will have 6, and is reduced by one
line as the Grade is reduced by one level.  The bottom end bolts, have
smooth heads. Occasionally, some manufacturers actually place the grade
on the head, with a marking such as "Gr. 8" but the use of radial lines
is much more common.

Just some thoughts about bang for the buck, and not too much overkill.

Cliff Feiler

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #378
********************************
 
