

oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 20 November 1996    Volume 01 :
Number 374


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:28:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

Hurst also assembled the 68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas for Chrysler.
I believe they also did the 69 Dodge Daytonas (the 70 Superbird's where
outsourced to someone else).  Boy-o-boy, Hurst factory/proving grounds
must have been a helluva place to work in the late sixties... "hey!
when you are done with that H/O 455,  drive these hemidarts over there,
and get those S/C Ramblers over here!!!"  ...hmmmm

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:38:00 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: GM Transmissions - inFAQ

Just to let everyone know that all the posts aren't going into the
virtual circular file, everyday there are about half a dozen posts that
get put into my "FAQ" folder, for later addition to the FAQ.  This
trans post and others are there - good info!

You're too kind!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- --------------
Hey Olds FAQmaster, this, along with parts from the thread on taillights
 would be a good and needed addition!

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 05:42:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

The article was in the 12/96 Car Craft.  It is built off the WS-6
Formula Firebird platform with the LT1.  It contains
Lingenfelter/ACCEL/K&N/Arizona Speed & Marine/Borla and probably some
other aftermarket items.  The article also says that currently it is
the only one in existence and it is being "..used to judge reaction to
general enthusiasts and potential buyers alike." The LT4 Jason spoke
about probably won't make it into the car as it was built for the ZR1
vette which is out of production, although I think you can still buy
the LT4 as a crate motor, not sure though.  Tim Allen had an LT4
shoehorned into his new Binford 6100 Impala SS and it required MAJOR
fabrication.

***************************************
I saw the car you are talking about. If I had the estimated $40,000 the
car is going to cost I would buy it now.  I think the LT4 will be the
engine of choice for the car.  They also are estimating high 12's for
the 1/4 mile in stock form...possibly the fastest production Hurst car?
Don't know but the LT4  should put out around 400hp.

At 09:37 PM 11/19/96 -0400, Dave Paulison wrote:
>Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
>magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird >(or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take
some time to get >used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks
_so_ much better. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4,
G92(3.23), QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a
4-3-1 W-30  in reality)
*************************************************

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertible - for sale
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 Hatchback

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:54:03 -0400
Subject: Virginia Tech

Just noticed several additions to our list today from the "vt.edu"
domain, which I think is Virginia Tech... and which, if memory serves,
was the same institution that last week was the location of a practical
joke where unsuspecting folk were subscribed to this list.

If all of you VT types are here willingly, then welcome! If you're not,
and want off, let me know thru private email and I'll help.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

If I recall correctly, didn't Hurst make an AMC Gremlin ambulance as
well? Supposed to be a pretty fast little thing.

Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Timothy A. Churchill wrote:

>
> Tony asks:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69.
>
>
> You are referring, I believe, to the SC/Rambler.  A co-worker of mine
> years ago was into these (go figure :) ).  Yup, as I recall, these
> were a Hurst production... a very limited production.
>
>
>
> Tim (Liked My Dad's '61 Rambler, But That's About It) Churchill
> -------------
> '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
> '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
> '91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'
>
>

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:18:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech

Oh god, say it ain't so.  I really hope my roomate hasn't started a
trend. Greg Pruett

>Just noticed several additions to our list today from the "vt.edu"
>domain, which I think is Virginia Tech... and which, if memory serves,
>was the same institution that last week was the location of a practical


>If all of you VT types are here willingly, then welcome! If you're not,
 >and want off, let me know thru private email and I'll help.

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:19:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Conversions

If I recall correctly, didn't Hurst make an AMC Gremlin ambulance as
well?  Supposed to be a pretty fast little thing.

*****
Clayton,

I don't believe it was an ambulance, but a support vehicle for
demonstration of the "Jaws Of Life" when Hurst first started
production of that system.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:24:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 rebuild costs

sending this again, don't know if made it first time since I didn't see
it.

Here are my estimates when my brother and I did a rebuild to a '72 455
from a Cutlass.  I say estimates because my brother didn't keep all of
the receipts. He also handled all of the tear down and assembly chores
as this was done in 1992.  NAPA did the machine work to the block and
heads.  This included .010 on the crank and .030 on the cylinders,
magnaflux , hot tank and I think align hone of the mains.  The heads
received the usual three angle job.  We purchased gaskets and I think
also bearings and freeze plugs from NAPA.  We purchased an Edelbrock
package consisting of double roller timing chain and gears, camshaft
with lifters (I'm assuming it came with lifters, don't remember) and
intake manifold.  We also purchased items from Mondello and PAW, these
included 8:1 pistons, rings, oil pump (I think), ARP head studs, main
studs, rod bolts, roller tip rockers (stock ratio I think) and possibly
some other things that I can't think of right now.  Blackjack headers
were purchased from a street rod shop in town.  The block came from the
junk yard for $100 and we had to pull it from the car (sure wish we got
the TH400 with it but decided not to get it). It had everything from
intake to oil pan and flywheel to water pump, no pulleys, no carb, no
distributor, don't remember if it had a fuel pump.  We swapped it into
a '77 Buick LeSabre that had the original 350R Olds with 150,000 miles
on it.  Grand total was approx. $1500 Anything that the engine didn't
have we swapped from the 350R Olds, pulleys, carb, fuel pump, hei
distributor.  The engine has recently been removed and is now sitting
in my garage waiting for a vehicle to be dropped into. Anyone have any
ideas as to a suitable vehicle, I plan on bracket racing it and would
like to have something a little bit different.  I've thought of finding
a 70-72 Cutlass (non Supreme) or a wagon from the same era.  My latest
thought was to find a 78-87 Cutlass or possibly a Cutlass Wagon and
make a "newer" version of a 442 W-30 wagon.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN

1969 W-31 Cutlass
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertible - for sale
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 Hatchback
and a 1972 Olds 455/TH350 drivetrain looking for a home


>Well, I'm swapping the 350 in my 72 Delta 88 Conv. for a '69 455
(courtesy >of Chris Witt).  This will be my first rebuild/swap.  This
will be a very >budget rebuild.  Just trying to restore engine to
original condition, with a >few hi-performance part where economical.
Right now I'm trying to get a >ballpark figure of what this is gonna
cost me.

>Could those of you who've rebuilt 455's give a run down of the costs
>involved?  I only need estimations.

>This is what I figured:

>Engine: $350
>Valve job: 350 (w/ hardened valve seats, pushrods, and lifters?)
>Rings, gaskets, seals, timing chain, and rod bearings: 200-250
>Dual exhaust: 400 (including flowmasters)
>Tranny rebuild:  400 (ouch!)

>I'm sure there will be other little things, but isn't this the bulk of
it? >Am about right with the costs?  What else should I count on?

>Thanks for you help, it's much appreciated.

>-Aaron

> _____
>|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
>|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
>| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
>|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *




------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@DADC.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:23:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst/Pontiac???

The article was in the 12/96 Car Craft.  It is built off the WS-6
Formula Firebird platform with the LT1.  It contains
Lingenfelter/ACCEL/K&N/Arizona Speed & Marine/Borla and probably some
other aftermarket items.  The article also says that currently it is
the only one in existence and it is being "..used to judge reaction to
general enthusiasts and potential buyers alike." The LT4 Jason spoke
about probably won't make it into the car as it was built for the ZR1
vette which is out of production, although I think you can still buy
the LT4 as a crate motor, not sure though.  Tim Allen had an LT4
shoehorned into his new Binford 6100 Impala SS and it required MAJOR
fabrication.

***************************************
I saw the car you are talking about. If I had the estimated $40,000 the
car is going to cost I would buy it now.  I think the LT4 will be the
engine of choice for the car.  They also are estimating high 12's for
the 1/4 mile in stock form...possibly the fastest production Hurst car?
Don't know but the LT4  should put out around 400hp.

At 09:37 PM 11/19/96 -0400, Dave Paulison wrote:
>Has anybody seen the new Hurst/Pontiac??  I saw it in one of the car
>magazines this month, can't remember which.  I think it's a, uh,
Firebird >(or Trans Am, do they still make those?).  It's gonna take
some time to get >used to the H/PONTIAC emblem.  I think the H/O looks
_so_ much better. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4,
G92(3.23), QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a
4-3-1 W-30  in reality)
*************************************************

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertible - for sale
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 Hatchback

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:35:18 -0400
Subject: RE: cutlass

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD6F8.844EA280
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I know everyone will tell you Mondello but if you want to get some =
serious stuff contact Dave Smith Oldsmobile or Batten performance. These
= are the only serious Olds parts suppliers.

- ----------
From: 	Vicki Lee Peterson[SMTP:gs02vlp@panther.gsu.edu]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 19, 1996 8:33 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	cutlass

I have a 1979 olds cutlass.  With a 403 and a th400 and i am looking for
= a company that just sell olds parts.  Like heads, superchargers,
headers, high rise manifolds, and all that good stuff.  thanks

JEFF=20





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------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:43:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech

Oh god, say it ain't so.  I really hope my roomate hasn't started a
trend.

*****
. . . And the only possible clue to who had run over Greg's late
roommate was the metal emblem embedded in his body, which simply read
"442" . . .

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:47:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

>Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
>noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.

     Where are you at?  Is it cold there?  Morning sickness in cars
often flags choke problems in my mind.  If the choke isn't closing
enough, your engine will be running lean until it warms up.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:47:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Update:  442 Wagons

>          OK, the memory is the second thing to go and I...er, what
>          was I saying?
>

Uh, yeah, me too.  I just double-checked the article I was thinking of,
and found the line: "about the only model you couldn't get was a 442
station wagon.  However, since 442 was an option package in '64, there
were no I.D. numbers on the cars to verify them as 442's."  --Car Craft,
April '88 Fine Lines-442.  So, I guess my memory once again did not
serve me correctly :( I wonder if there's any warranty left on that
thing...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:47:53 -0400
Subject: Re: New Baby

>At last, success! I'm the terrified new owner of a 72 Cutlass S holiday
coupe >with 11,500 original miles and bad window seals. The interior is
shot and the >dash and cowl area need some metal work done.

Only 11,500 original miles and the interior is shot?  Needs metal work
around the dash and cowl?

>Rust has definitely taken hold
>in the usual areas (trunk lid, floor panels, etc.)

Pretty rusty, huh?  Must have sat outside for a while.  Or it's got
111,500 miles.  I'd be suspicious... - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:11:57 -0400
Subject: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

...The LT4 Jason spoke about probably won't make it into the car as it
was built for the ZR1 vette which is out of production, although I
think you can still buy the LT4 as a crate motor, not sure though...

          No, I disagree.  The LT4 is a derivative of the LT1, which
          is the good ol' small block Chevy.  The LT1 was the 300
          horse unit, the LT4 is the 330 horse unit.  The brand new
          SBC is the LS1, due out in the 97 Vette.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:16:26 -0400
Subject: Re: New Baby

>Only 11,500 original miles and the interior is shot?  Needs metal work
>around the dash and cowl?

Given the level of work needed, I'd say it's pretty academic whether
the mileage is 11K or 111K. My initial take on this would be 111K, IMHO.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:35:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Motor mounts

Back in the early 70s GM cars of the 60s had some problems with motor
mounts separating at the worst times. This usually resulted in stuck
throttles (no cable, solid linkage), ruined radiators, torn wires, ect.
The motor mounts were just two pieces of steel bonded by the rubber.
Since that time the "modern" mounts have been designed with a hook
inside to prevent total separation in the event of failure. I do not
know when this type of mount became OEM issue, but I do know the cars
built since the mid 70s have this type of mount. My 70 4-4-2 did not
have the safety type mount and the engine would raise enough for the fan
 to hit the guard on the top of the radiator. The replacements have the
 hook arrangement. If you buy name brand mounts from a reputible parts
supplier you should not have to worry. If you are concerned about the
engine rotating too far you can use an old racers trick and install a
torque limiting device. Either a chain or cable from the frame to the
engine on the drivers side. just leave enough slack for normal movement.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:50:07 -0400
Subject: Re: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

 is the good ol' small block Chevy.

Uh, oh.  Naw, I'd better not get started!  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:50:17 -0400
Subject: possible home?  (was: 455 rebuild costs)

 The engine has recently been removed and is
>now sitting in my garage waiting for a vehicle to be dropped into.
>Anyone have any ideas as to a suitable vehicle, I plan on bracket
racing it and >would like to have something a little bit different.

Ooh, Ooh, Ooooh.  One word "Starfire!"  (Will it fit?)  The thought of
an engine weighing twice as much as the car it's going into brings music
to my ears, ~especially~ when the words chevy and nova aren't mentioned!
:)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: chlacy@vt.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:39:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech

At 03:54 PM 11/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Just noticed several additions to our list today from the "vt.edu"
>domain, which I think is Virginia Tech... and which, if memory serves,
>was the same institution that last week was the location of a practical
 >joke where unsuspecting folk were subscribed to this list. > >If all
of you VT types are here willingly, then welcome! If you're not, >and
want off, let me know thru private email and I'll help. > >Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > > >
        How would something like this happen, and who would do it?  I
just sent the unsubscribe command, but will it work?


Shau n Lacy

P.S.  Also, Is there some way to trace who put us on the list?

------------------------------

From: James Z Kreager <KREAGERJ@gunet.georgetown.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:47:08 -0400
Subject: Wrong Person

I just wanted to notify you to tell you that I received an e-mail
from you today on my account at school which is
kreagerj@gunet.georgetown.edu
I don't think that I am the person you want to send this to,
and there are other people who sent me e-mails that had
something to do with cars just like you.  I would appreciate it
if you forward this message to those people, if you do know
them.  Thank you for your time.

------------------------------

From: James Z Kreager <KREAGERJ@gunet.georgetown.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:43:42 -0400
Subject: Wrong Person!

I just wanted to inform you that I got a couple of e-mails from
you today on my account, but I don't think that I am the one
that you want to send this to.  My e-mail address is
kreagerj@gunet.georgetown.edu   I got messages like yours
concerning cars from about five other people, so if you can
get into contact with them and give them this same
message, I would greatly appreciate it.  Thank you for your
time.

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:56:37 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

>>> I had my mufflers replaced and my tail pipes extend downward. Should
>>> they have pointed straight out the back inside the notches?

>>          Yep.  You should have chrome trumpets (available repro from
>>          various sources) which come straight out the cutouts.

>I have a JPG photo of the back of Jeff Easton's '70 442, taken at our
>Fuddrucker's get-together, which shows these fairly clearly. I could
>email it to you if that would help.

Try to digitally touch up the rust spots in the picture first. :-)

Actually I've always thought that the trumpets on my car stick out
from the bumper too far.  Is there some kind of spec on this?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: James Z Kreager <KREAGERJ@gunet.georgetown.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:49:35 -0400
Subject: Wrong person

I just thought I would tell you that I received an e-mail from
you today, and I don't think that I was the intended person.
My address is kreagerj@gunet.georgetown.edu  I just
wanted you to know this for future reference, so you don't
send any more e-mails to the wrong address.  Thank you for
your time.

------------------------------

From: James Z Kreager <KREAGERJ@gunet.georgetown.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:53:12 -0400
Subject: Wrong Person

I just wanted to inform you that I got a message from you
today that did not pertain to me, thus I guess it was mixed
up somehow with the address.  My address is as follows
kreagerj@gunet.georgetown.edu
i also received e-mails from other people pertaining to cars,
so if you have any idea who these people are, please tell
them that they have the wrong address as well.  Thank you
for your time.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 chlacy@vt.edu wrote:
>         How would something like this happen, and who would do it?  I
just > sent the unsubscribe command, but will it work?

Shaun,

It worked, and you have successfully unsubscribed. As for how it would
happen, I am mystified. Someone cannot subscribe someone else without
causing an "approve" request to come to me first. That didn't happen
here. Whoever did it has access to your user-ID and password at VT. Are
you in a computer lab environment where you might be logged on and leave
 the workstation unattended for a time? That is the only way I can
think would have caused this to occur.

> P.S.  Also, Is there some way to trace who put us on the list?

Not from this end. Perhaps you can check your mail out-box and see the
time of the message that was sent.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:01:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> Somebody stated:
> > >FWIW, VW Beetle RR and LF fenders, as do the LR and RF.
>
> This may have been true for some of the earlier bugs

We've had several bugs in the family starting with my dad's in 1956.
I'm sure none of those fenders were interchangable.  Look like it maybe
 but not unless you're into welding up the headlight holes to mount the
 taillights in.

> And to keep this post at least kinda Olds-related...

Oh, yeah, right.  I traded by 69 bug in on my first 66 Toronado.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:10:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Virginia Tech

Sending this again, since it seems not to have made it through the first
 time around... plus, since then, we have had several messages about
the "wrong person". We may have a problem here... <sigh>

Greg

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 chlacy@vt.edu wrote:
>         How would something like this happen, and who would do it?  I
just > sent the unsubscribe command, but will it work?

Shaun,

It worked, and you have successfully unsubscribed. As for how it would
happen, I am mystified. Someone cannot subscribe someone else without
causing an "approve" request to come to me first. That didn't happen
here. Whoever did it has access to your user-ID and password at VT. Are
you in a computer lab environment where you might be logged on and leave
 the workstation unattended for a time? That is the only way I can
think would have caused this to occur.

> P.S.  Also, Is there some way to trace who put us on the list?

Not from this end. Perhaps you can check your mail out-box and see the
time of the message that was sent.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:22:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Motor mounts

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, david wyatt wrote:
> Back in the early 70s GM cars of the 60s had some problems with motor
> mounts separating at the worst times. This usually resulted in stuck
> throttles (no cable, solid linkage), ruined radiators, torn wires,
ect.

A friend has a '68 Camaro with a 350 that he bought new and which was
recalled a couple of years later due to faulty motor mounts. It is
interesting to see the GM factory fix for the problem:

> Either a chain or cable from the frame to the
> engine on the drivers side. just leave enough slack for normal
movement.

They chose a heavy braided steel cable. Not 100% sure, but I think they
did it on both sides. Looks just like a neat job by a racer, but sure
not like a factory piece, even though it is.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:20:09 -0400
Subject: BB/FWD...YES!!  Was Re: Re[2]: Hurst/Pontiac???

> I think I laughed to the same effect when I read that letter.  And the
 > words "Ok, but just don't tell any '66 to '72 Olds Toronado owners
about > that", all the while picturing clouds of white smoke rolling
off the front > end of a Toro letting those 500 ft/lbs of torque loose.

	And don't forget the 'ol Caddy El Dorado.  In '70 they came with
that monster 500, rated at 400 HP, and something over 500 ft lbs of
torque!  Hows that for FWD?

				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:31:32 -0400
Subject: Re: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

> ...The LT4 Jason spoke about probably won't make it into the car as it
was > built for the ZR1 vette which is out of production, although I
think you > can still buy the LT4 as a crate motor, not sure though... >
 >           No, I disagree.  The LT4 is a derivative of the LT1, which
 >           is the good ol' small block Chevy.  The LT1 was the 300 >
horse unit, the LT4 is the 330 horse unit.  The brand new >
SBC is the LS1, due out in the 97 Vette.

	I read somewhere that the LT-4 was actually a Lotus designed DOHC
motor (maybe even Lotus built) specifically for the ZR-1.  But, my
memory isn't that good, so I could be off on this one (didn't really pay
that much attention either, I mean, it's a Chubby :)

	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:32:32 -0400
Subject: More on motor mounts

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I believe I can shed some light on
motor mounts.  Vulcanization is indeed the rubber curing process, but is
not responsible for bonding the rubber to the metal.  The rubber to
metal adhesion is the result of a one to three step cement coating on
the metal that adheres during the molding process (the rubber is
vulcanized during the molding process).  The rubber will fail before the
rubber to metal bond will fail (at least in today's motor mounts).
Motor mounts are made mostly of rubber, and rubber should not
deteriorate in oil.  Rubber is pretty tough stuff, so tough that no
synthetic rubber has been able to match it's desirable characteristics
(such as durability and pliability).  If there are any more questions,
I'd be happy to answer them or find answers to them - I'm a co-op at
Goodyear in the non-tire product R&D.  We design/produce quite a few
motor mounts.

***Question:  Someone already asked this, but are 350 motor mounts an
easy way to gain header clearance for a 455?

I'm currently swapping my 350 for a 455 in my '72 88 and am considering
headers.  I'd like to know which motor mounts to buy.  (The 455 block is
a 72-74?)

- -Aaron

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re: BB/FWD...YES!!  Was Re: Re[2]: Hurst/Pontiac???

Scott R Clark wrote:
>
> > I think I laughed to the same effect when I read that letter.  And
the > > words "Ok, but just don't tell any '66 to '72 Olds Toronado
owners about > > that", all the while picturing clouds of white smoke
rolling off the front > > end of a Toro letting those 500 ft/lbs of
torque loose. > >         And don't forget the 'ol Caddy El Dorado.  In
'70 they came with > that monster 500, rated at 400 HP, and something
over 500 ft lbs of > torque!  Hows that for FWD?

What was the 68 442 400 CID rated at?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:41:09 -0400
Subject: Email Pranks

My roomate just wanted convey his apologies  for his prank last week.
Here's what he had to say:


Hello everyone here at the Olds listserv...this is Greg's roomate who
started all of this...i can only say that i apologize to everyone out
there who's been annoyed and/or insulted by my actions..>I< only
subscribed this to one person (Will) and personally i don't think he's
the one subscribing all of these others from virginia tech..i don't
intend to continue to subscribe people to this thing..enough's enough
for me and i had my last laugh with Will..thank you for reading this
far..and once again..i'm sorry..

JT


So there it is for what it's worth.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:45:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Overdrive w/out an OD trans...was Re: your mail

> > 	It would be pretty cool to add one to any four speed, (esp.
> > something like a close ratio Muncie) since you would effectively
have a > > five speed! (Not as cool as having a T-56 Six speed, but
still pretty > > cool).  I'm also assuming you could put one on an
automatic too, which > > would be equally cool. > > Actually it would
give you an 8 speed, although it would be kinda slow > to use them all.
The OD unit effectively gives you a 2-speed (Hi/Low) > transfer case.
Each gear of the tranny can have either the Hi or Low > range, so you
end up with 8 gears.  To use them all however, requires > you to shift
the tranny and the OD unit together.  Not very good for > fast shifts.
It would work good going to 4 Hi though to simulate 5 > gears.  Start in
Low (normal), shift 1 -> 4.  For the 4 -> 5, kick > the OD into Hi.

	Yea, that pretty much sums it up.  And I can tell you from
experience that it's pretty useless to try to take advantage of the
overdrive for anything other than high gear.  A couple years ago I had a
'63 Galaxie with a 3 speed overdrive tranny.  It was really cool, since
you could engage the OD in any gear, as long as you were going over 15
miles an hour (it would automatically kick downat anything under that).

Only problem
was that out of the 6 "gears" you would have, most of them were
redundant, and it was enough of a pain in the butt to try to use the OD
like that it really was'nt worth it.  But, in third, it was a dream.  On
the highway, I would just wrap it up to about 65 in third (good
acceleration) then take my foot off the gas to engage the OD, and I
could get over 20 mpg at cruising speed.  If I needed to pass somebody,
just I would just stomp on it and kick it back into 3rd.  Plenty of go
power.

	It also allowed a relativly low (high numerically) rear end for
better acceleration.  In fact, I read somewhere that some OD cars came
from the factory with 4.10s. Something to think about if you're looking
for a junkyard rear end.

				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:46:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

<<<<Subject: Re: Cutlass Taillights

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> My vote for best looking? The '68, of course... :)

Overall I think :-))))))

Chris Sparks>>>>

Well, '67's don't get no respect but those four tailights look just like
the exhaust of a rocket to me, glowing red and all.


"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:50:45 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

At 23:25 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:52 PM 11/19/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 21:24 11/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>>I recently purchased a 1972 442.  It has a 350 4 barrell, muncie 4
speed, >[snip] >>         Why do you think it's 4-4-2?  Was it sold to
you as one?  Without >>getting into the interior part, it should have
the cutouts in the rear >>bumper unless of cource it had been replaced
for one reason or another.  The >>best way to tell is by the VIN #.
Shoot the VIN out here and that will tell >>the story. > >Since the 442
became an option, rather than a model, in '72, I don't think >you can
tell by the VIN, unless it has the W-30 motor (the infamous "X" in >the
VIN). > >Though the 442 was available with the 350 that year, I think
you're missing >some key elements. Probably just an "emblem" 442. >
>Must be fun with the 4-speed, though! Just enjoy it for what it is; a
V-8 >4spd car. >_______________________________________________________

  I humbly stand corrected.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:54:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 1968 442 Engines

What was the 68 442 400 CID rated at?

*****
Chris,

As a former 1968 442 owner, I can answer that.

The 400 with automatic was rated at 325 horsepower.  The manual trans
engine had a little hotter cam, and was rated at 350 horsepower.  The
W-30 was rated at 360 horsepower, which was undoubtedly conservative
in comparison to the others.  There was also a low compression 400
with a two barrel carb which was available in the 442, as a sort of
turnpike cruiser option.  That engine was rated at 290 horsepower.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:02:41 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

I think that was the LT5 made by Mercury Marine as the ZR-1 motor.  DOHC
 anyways.

I can see the torches, pitch forks and shotguns in hand as the Olds mail
 list users approach . . . :)

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ----------
 I read somewhere that the LT-4 was actually a Lotus designed DOHC
motor (maybe even Lotus built) specifically for the ZR-1.  But, my
memory isn't that good, so I could be off on this one (didn't really pay
that much attention either, I mean, it's a Chubby :)


    Scott
   1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <TGSTONER@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:00:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Email Pranks

My roomate just wanted convey his apologies for his prank last week.
Here's what he had to say:

Hello everyone here at the Olds listserv...this is Greg's roomate
who started all of this...i can only say that i apologize to everyone
out there who's been annoyed and/or insulted by my actions..>I< only
subscribed this to one person (Will) and personally i don't think
he's the one subscribing all of these others from virginia tech..i
don't intend to continue to subscribe people to this thing..enough's
enough for me and i had my last laugh with Will..thank you for
reading this far..and once again..i'm sorry..

JT

So there it is for what it's worth.

Greg Pruett

*****
All right, I'll try to call off the angry road warriors in their
442s.  I notice that "JT" didn't give us HIS E-Mail address though.

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor, MI

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:17:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

In a message dated 96-11-19 20:57:44 EST, you write:

<<  When I was at the Olds/Mondello Nationals this summer I noticed that
 alot of the Olds cars seemed to have their engines sitting abit higher
 than stock.  Would this help for header clearance on the right "A" arm
 and on the steering rod?  I had to beat the crap outta mine to make em
 clear in these two spots.  Would using 350 motor mounts help me out?  I
 have a 68 442 and a 67 442 and the headers hit on both cars in the same
 spots. >>
I use Hooker Supercomp headers and they are already predented for the
steering rod.  I am not sure if it would help, probably not due to that
the header goes straight down.  If the header kinds of hugs the block
on the way down, it probably will clear. I have found out if you buy
Hedmann or BlackJack, Cyclone and Eagle headers, they dont seem to
clear.  The three latter type headers are made by one company.  I
suggest buying the Hookers due to their unsurpassed quality.  No, I
dont work for Hooker, I just use their products on my cars.

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30


------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:24:48 -0400
Subject: power loss ('86 442)

Hey guys,
	
	All this talk has got me wondering again.  I have an '86 442 with stock
engine and 200-4R trans.  When you hit passing gear the engine revs real
high, but the car doesn't pick up speed till you let up on the gas a
little.  The trans. has been rebuilt (burned up planetary gears) and I
adjusted the T.V. cable back to the factory setting.  It shifts fine and
runs smooth all the time.  If you put the gas down just a little over
halfway (but not to the floor) it picks up smoothly, but has no kick.
Since the engine is revving I thought it was the trans.,  but everything
has been gone through (even a new torque converter).  If anybody can
help me with this and give me any suggestions I would appriciate it.

Thanks,
Steve Cannon

------------------------------

From: CFXR04C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN A NELSON)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:44:07 -0400
Subject: '75 Delta 88 Royale Convertible

I have a '75 delta 88 with the 350 in it and I wanted to know if any
one has the same as me and if you do I'm planing on maken it a little
bite faster. I would like to say hi and ask if you have any
suggestions.

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:57:48 -0400
Subject: RE: GM Transmissions

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- ----------
From: 	Kevin Wong[SMTP:yu135008@yorku.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, November 20, 1996 12:03 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: GM Transmissions

> Late (ready for the next years new model) in 1937 GM started
advertising the > Automatic Safety transmission.  Which means that they
were probably in > series sproduction by then, late 1937, and would
appear as an option in 1938 > Oldsmobiles, which of course makes them
1938 models.

I think this was also called the "traffic transmission", and was offered
for some Olds and Buick cars in '37 and '38.  This wasn't a fully
automatic unit since there was no valve body.

> always the posibility of an earlier  experimental unit, or later
produciton

As far as experimental units go, Cadillac had a step-up ratio gearbox
that would upshift automatically under full torque in 1934.

I believe the first fully automatic transmission, Hydra-Matic, was
offered in 1940 by Oldsmobile.  Cadillac received it in 1941.

Kevin Wong

   There is a 41 Olds two-door in Yankton, South Dakota that has an
  automatic emblem of some sort on the side of the hood, directly in
  front of the drivers door mirror.  Of course, one would expect that
  there would be on the other side too, but I cannot verify that.
  dj

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------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:11:02 -0400
Subject: RE: Damn power loss problems again

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>racing to work (literally)...push the pedal...seem to lose power.,,let
>off the gas it came back...not getting enough gas (shouldn't since I
>had fuel pump replace)

more likely problem is a lean mixture...starving the engine when the
butterflies open...timing set up properly? No vacuum leaks? Andrew C.
Green

Is it really hot where you live...like here in South Dakota where it
is 9(F)...  You may be experiencing vapor lock.  Check your fuel
lines and see if someone hasn't re-routed something (like to add
an extra fuel filter) and it is getting too close to a heat source.  It
would/could cause intermittent fuel starvation because it would
only happen when the underhood temps got to that critical extra
hot stage...like when really pushing it.
Remember, this is gas temperature in the line and not necessarily
related to water temp as it shows on the gauge.
dj

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------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:13:08 -0400
Subject: Re: motor mounts

> >
> > Did you get a chance to look at your old motor mounts?  If so, how
did > > the metal-to-rubber bond appear there? > > Nope.  My mechanic
informed me that if oil gets on these motor mounts, > then > the
adhesion breaks down.  Aargh!  With all of the oil problems I had >
recently > I worry about this. > > Chris Sparks


Chris,

The oil is an enemy of the motor mountsd, but I guess that we live with
it.  All mounts in modern times are built as you describe.  I'm
surprised that a mechanic would wonder about this.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:15:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

> Ken,
>
> I hope that spot isn't at the brake proportioning valve, like it was
> on my '68 442.  Everything was fine for me, until I hit a wet spot on
> the road under hard acceleration one night.  The engine torqued over,
> and the left header went right through the front brake line.  Of
> course, I didn't discover that until I tried to stop at the next red
> light . . .      Up until then, I had thought that accelerating was
> the exciting part!
>
> Tom Stoner



Tom,

I can't wait.  Tell us the rest.  Were you killed?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:03:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

> Well this is a probable area as well.  I am currently waiting on
> a coffee canister vacuum unit.  Currently I have the smaller hose
> fit inside the larger hose.  Please don't flame me since the mechanic
> did this.
>
> The timing I currently have has been adjusted so that I am running a
> little slower.  This was due to the pinging problem I couldn't stand.
> It really didn't help the pinging since I have since realized that gas
> is not as good as it used to be.  Maybe I should have my mechanic
reset > it to what it supposed to be.  Heck when I first got the car I
would > barely hit the pedal and would burn rubber.  Now that I have
driven > the car and am used to it this should be a problem for me :-)
Does > anyone know what the proper settings is off the top of their
head? > If not I'll check the olds faq. >

 Does your mechanic charge you every time you take this car into him?
I don't mean this as a flame or anything but if I had to take one of my
old cars in every time something goes wrong I'd have to pick one of them
 and live in it.

  Anyways... I've had power losses occur like yours when there is
excessive back pressure in the exhaust.  I know you dont have a
catalytic converter to plug up, but a stuck heatriser valve or a
collapsed baffle in the muffler could do it. Stick vaccuum gauge on
it and rev up the engine.  If the needle goes back down real slow you
have excessive back pressure.

------------------------------

From: hkroner@itagroup.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:29:49 -0400
Subject: Starting an Aurora Club

Hi - I am working with Oldsmobile on the possibility of starting an
Aurora Club with corporate support.  I read the digest every day and
wanted to pose a question to anyone interested in responding.

Most car clubs live, breath and have a life because members need and
want to talk about restoring cars and need a place to show-off their
hard work once they finally complete their cars.  Solving mechanical
challenges, finding parts, and driving around a hot car keeps the
club going.

If Olds started an Aurora Club, what do you think could or would be the
 common "bonding" factor for members?  Do you think a club would be
successful and would any of you want to belong?

I'd love to hear your comments on the club and what you think of the
Aurora.  Email address: hkroner@itagroup.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:22:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

Tony Waldner wrote:
>
> Hey Guys and Gals  --
>
> I need a little help here.  I am trying to settle an argument.  I know
that > Hurst built Olds cars in '68,'69, 72, 74, 75, 79 and 83-84.  I am
having a > disagreement with a buddy about other Hurst cars. In 1970, he
said that > they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.  I thought that they built
a Chrysler 300. > I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69. > >
I am pretty knowlegeable with Oldsmobiles and building them, butI am
pretty > rusty with the "other" cars that Hurst marketed.  I guess I
should buy the > "Hurst Heratige" book! > > Thanks for your help! > >
Tony


Tony,

They built those & the SS AMXs of 1969 &, I believe, the Reble Machine
of 1970/1071.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Brendan P. Foley" <bfoley@ezl.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:28:15 -0400
Subject: Interior Question?

To All:

	I recently started a winter project with my 71 Cutlass.  I removed the
back seat to begin the process of recovering it.  When I removed the old
vinyl covering I revealed the original vinyl.  My question is: Is it
common to leave old seat vinyl on seat? or Should I completely remove
all vinyl covering before I put new vinyl on?

Brendan P. Foley
71 Cutlass Conv.

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:51:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

> >so assuming the guage is accurate and there is no air in the line you
> >will read what the engine is producing. With electrical gagues the
oil

> Why would air in the line cause a gauge mis-reading?  Wouldn't air in
a > closed hydraulic system compress and go to the liquid pressure in
the line? > Just plain curiousity? > For the same reason that you don't
ant air in your brake lines. Air doesn't compress at the same rate that
liquid does. also in the oil line you get vairations in pressure
readings as the engine rpm's change. The difference in compression
rates will make the guage read the changes at a different rate than
they are acually occuring.. Another point on this oil pressure question,
in trade school we learned that too much oil pressure can be just as
detramental as not enough. pressure much over 50 lbs (unless the
bearings and journals are designed for it) does not protect the bearing
surfaces from wear. This is because the oil is screaming through so
fast that it cannot lubracate the bearings. Also don't forget that
another function of the oil is to help cool the surfaces, and if it is
traveling too fast to absorb and carry off the heat the bearings will
fail.

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:48:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hurst/Pontiac???

>Someone should enter their Toro into their burn out contests.  Although
it >is pretty sad what these people are doing to their cars to win the
chance >to get a photograph of their car's destruction in CC.  Here it
comes; there >is a use for Chevys after all.

Now since I got a car with real power (insert buehner wise crack here;))
I want my car in there with the tires falling off the car and clouds of
smoke everywhere. Us Chevy people seem to like that stuff.... - - - - -
- - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23),
QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30
in reality)

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:03:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser roof glass

Delk, Mitch S wrote:
>
> There was a fellow on this list looking for roof glass for his VC. If
he > still needs it, I may know where he can get it. This car is a '72 I >
think.

I also can get 70 VC roof glass if NH is closer.

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:00:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Weekend almost disaster

>           car.  And naturally, the law makes no mention of other high
>           pressure bottles, such as welding tanks or diving tanks.
>           All the more reason for a hidden N2O system...
> In good ole Cow Hampshire it is also illeagle to carry oxy/accet tanks
 inside a car or passenger compartment of a truck. They must be carried
in an uprite position and firmly secured in the rear compartment. While
not explictitly stated they cannot be carried in a trunk of a car as
they cannot be carried uprite.

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:56:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Weekend almost disaster

> > In NH it is illegal to plumb live oil pressure into passenger
> > compartment. Unless the car was factory equipped.
>
> I've never heard of this.  It seems uncharacteristic in the extreme
> that the "Live Free or Die" state would have such a law...
> I don't think anyone has been stopped or busted for this but if the
inspection station spots the line they will not pass the car. Then you
will have to either remove it or walk.  The reason is because of the
fire
 hazzard should the line break or catch fire. I would guess that it
would cause a real bad burn if that earlier post had been burning when
it was spraying all over the inside of the car. (note also that "unless
factory equipped")

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

At 05:11 PM 11/20/96 -0400, JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:

>          No, I disagree.  The LT4 is a derivative of the LT1, which
>          is the good ol' small block Chevy.  The LT1 was the 300
>          horse unit, the LT4 is the 330 horse unit.  The brand new
>          SBC is the LS1, due out in the 97 Vette.

If I remember right from the F-body list the LT4's are on recall due to
the Crane Roller Rockers shattering at high rpm's? There is only minor
differences between the LT4 and the LT1.  Anyways the LT4 would be built
by Lingenfelter and from the looks of his catalog the engine is far from
stock. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
(z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4,
G92(3.23), QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a
4-3-1 W-30  in reality)

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:10:14 -0400
Subject: Re: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

At 06:31 PM 11/20/96 -0400, Scott R Clark wrote:

>
>	I read somewhere that the LT-4 was actually a Lotus designed DOHC
>motor (maybe even Lotus built) specifically for the ZR-1.  But, my
memory >isn't that good, so I could be off on this one (didn't really
pay that >much attention either, I mean, it's a Chubby :)

No to my knowledge from reading Chevy Craft it was built by GM. The
ZR1's LT5 was built by a foreign car company that I can't remember.... -
- - - - - - - - - - - Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or
(jlabay@kent.edu) 93 Z/28......Patriot Red, A4, G92(3.23),
QLC....no-mods yet! 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30, white, ( Actually a 4-3-1 W-30
in reality)

------------------------------

From: Dennis Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:09:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Interchangable body parts

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>>>          AMC...built an engineering exercise in the 60s where=20
>>>          the front and back bumpers were the same, the right
front=20 >>>          and left rear doors doors interchanged... >...in
the '30's...some company built a car where even the four doors=20 >would
interchange, LR with RF and RR with LF...keeping costs down... = >only
needing two die sets instead of four...Chrysler Airflow...? >Andrew C.
Green             =20

...have a Chrysler Airflow, a 1936 C10 Imperial...four doors will not =
interchange...bought...to hot rod...having 2nd thoughts.  Pressure=20
from...resto...guys...so much...missing under the hood and trim wise.
=20 think...some...late '30s Willy's  77's may have had
interchangeable=20 doors ft to rear...car...I believe you are thinking
about was the '41 = Hupmobile Skylark.  It looks like it had such doors,
and fenders too. =20 It started life as something else though, maybe the
'37 Cord. =20 Cliff Feiler

  I too, thought of the Willys 77 (33-36) or perhaps 37-42 Americar.  I
= looked
  at the only thing I had, which is a model airplane magazine from 1954
= and
  none were interchangeable.  Also find it hard to believe that the =
36-37 Cord
  Beverley and Westchester sedan designers (Gordon Beuhrig, I believe) =
had
  to watch their $$$ that closely.
  Now, as to the model airplane magazine, it is Air Trails and they =
seemed
  to be having some kind of identity problem in 1954.  They were =
including
  magic and cars and some really weird horse stuff.  Anyway, what I
am=20
  leading to is that they hired Doug Rolfe, an excellant artist, to pen
= some
  line drawings of cars...one being Willys and another on Olds.  The =
result
  is two pages of simple pen drawings called "The Oldsmobile Story".  =
There
  are drawings of the 1900 curved dash, and 04, 06 and 08 models, as =
well
  as the 1915, 24, 35, and 54 Olds'.  Doug threw in a 1905 Reo drawing =
and
  the 53 Starfire experimental study for good measure.
  If anyone would like a photocopy of these two pages I would run them =
off
  for you.  I would like to send them as unfolded copies for best =
viewing but
  that would mean a big envelope...which I could do.  However I would =
like
  this to be...um, a break even venture!  So, if you want the "Olds =
Story",
  send me two stamps (or 50 cents) and I will fold them and send them.
= If         you make it three stamps (or 75 cents) I will put them in a
= big envelope=20
  and they will arrive flat.  Just thinking about how the post office =
would like
  those quarters going through their machines.
  My address is Dennis W. Johnson
                        809 Rose Street, Apt. #21
                        Vermillion, South Dakota 57069
  Now, this offer is good ONLY in US...we'll have to come up with a =
figure if
  you are from...say, Finland.  Sorry.=20








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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD716.6D5EC3C0--

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:13:31 -0400
Subject: Old Cars ads

Hello,

I just read in Old Cars Weekly the following ads:

	1967 Olds 442 ht, was 4-spd., not much left, good title.  $350 
	or
trade for Triumph Trident parts.  815-784-2217.

	1967 Olds 442 convertible minus engine.  Auto, power bench seat, 
	good
title.  $700 or trade for Triumph Trident parts.  	815-784-2217.

	1972 Olds Vista wagon, runs, drives, stops, 350,air, disc 
	brakes,
rusty.  Will separate.  Good front clip, $600.  	847-526-9096.

	1972 Olds Toronado complete, body rust, rebuild or parts, $300.
804-239-9096. IL.

	1977 Buick Estate 403 V8, chrome wheels, sun rood, loaded, good
driveline, rusty sheetmetal, $150.  216-238-8469.

What do Triumph Trident parts look like & where in the world is
Illinois?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:18:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Interior Question?

> To All:
>
>         I recently started a winter project with my 71 Cutlass.  I
removed the > back seat to begin the process of recovering it.  When I
removed the old > vinyl covering I revealed the original vinyl.  My
question is: Is it > common to leave old seat vinyl on seat? or Should I
completely remove > all vinyl covering before I put new vinyl on? > >
Brendan P. Foley


Brandon,

I've seen it done that way a lot of times.  I don't like it as it shows
a lack of the effort to take off the old, check the foam & seat
construction, & rebuild the seat as needed.  I also prefer to have the
seats properly upholstered and attached at all the wire points.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:30:27 -0400
Subject: 68' 442 motor mounts(Was Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap)

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
I suggest buying
> the Hookers due to their unsurpassed quality.  No, I dont work for
Hooker, > I just use their products on my cars. > > W MACHINES > 72 442
W-30 > Thanks for the advice.  Another question.. The 68 442/4speed I
just picked up is minus engine and trans.  The FRAME mounts(where the
motor mounts bolt to) are still attached to the frame. They extend
forward of the front crossmember by about 2-3 inches.  Half of the mount
is hanging out in space.  I've never seen anything like this.  Is this
stock? - --
     Kenneth G. Holland Jr.
- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   K&D Holland Trucking, Inc.
 Excavation, Demolition, Paving
         216.291.2780

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: '72 442

At 05:56 PM 11/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>
>>>> I had my mufflers replaced and my tail pipes extend downward.
Should >>>> they have pointed straight out the back inside the notches? >
>>>          Yep.  You should have chrome trumpets (available repro from
>>>          various sources) which come straight out the cutouts. > >>I
have a JPG photo of the back of Jeff Easton's '70 442, taken at our
>>Fuddrucker's get-together, which shows these fairly clearly. I could
>>email it to you if that would help. > >Try to digitally touch up the
rust spots in the picture first. :-) > >Actually I've always thought
that the trumpets on my car stick out >from the bumper too far.  Is
there some kind of spec on this? > >-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com > >1970  442  4-Speed > > >Hi!
  I was told that if you take a vertical line from the furthest aft
point of the bumper(centre of bumper), then follow down and line this
reference point to trumpet end. In other words..the trumpet ends should
not extend out any further than the  furthest aft point of your bumper..
hmmmm  follow that??? Hope so...
                                               Blair Rendell
                                               71 442 W30 Convert. stick

------------------------------

From: "Spud" <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:46:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Damn power loss problems again

> >Ok here we go.  This morning as I was racing to work (literally) I
> >noticed that when I push the pedal, I seem to lose power.  I let
> >off of the gas it came back.
>
>
> ..., but I think the more likely problem is a lean
> mixture that's starving the engine when the butterflies open,
> and if anything I'd expect RPMs to go down when this occurs.
>
> Andrew C. Green

This is what first occurred to me.  My wife's car (LeBaron) has had a
similar problem, ever since we replaced the Carter with a CARB approved
 Holley.  I'm suspicious of the jetting in the Holley, with taking the
"lean burn" system on that unit too seriously.  Were the same jets used
when the rebuild was done and was it done properly? Spud		"Fart
proudly." '86 FXST	-- Benjamin Franklin '73 Olds Delta 88 Royale '79
Chry Le Baron T&C wagon

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:56:28 -0400
Subject: Batten heads

Chris,

I was over a friends house the other night and I was thumbing through a
Popular Hotrodding magazine and saw an ad for"Hi flow  Olds street
heads" made by Batten, they are avaiable in  iron or aluminum. Have
you, or anyone else out there priced these or have any experience with
them?? the ad also claimed that they flow 25% better than "C" heads!!

Thanks,

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> I know everyone will tell you Mondello but if you want to get some =
> serious stuff contact Dave Smith Oldsmobile or Batten performance.
These = > are the only serious Olds parts suppliers. > > ---------- >
From: 	Vicki Lee Peterson[SMTP:gs02vlp@panther.gsu.edu] > Sent:
	Tuesday, November 19, 1996 8:33 PM > To: 
	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca >
Subject: 	cutlass > > I have a 1979 olds cutlass.  With a 403 and a
th400 and i am looking for = > a > company that just sell olds parts.
Like heads, superchargers, headers, > high rise manifolds, and all that
good stuff.  thanks > > JEFF=20 > > > > >

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:51:51 -0400
Subject: Re: no longer a pig in the corners

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Greg Pruett wrote:
> >
> > I installed a 1.25 inch front anti-sway bar on the Vista-Cruiser
this > > weekend.  It was salvaged from a `75 Trans Am for $35.  I gotta
say it > > helped the car's handling immensely, I'm very impressed.  The
car still > > rolls just a little in the corners but it doesn't wallow
like it did before. > > The ride is somewhat firmer on uneven pavement
but highway ride is about the > > same.  I was amazed at how much a
beefy front sway bar affected the rear of > > the car, it's staying
level in the corners now too despite the lack of a > > rear sway bar
(next on the list of suspension upgrades.)  Some of the > > handling
improvement probably came from the fact that the end links are > >
tighter now, they were not tightened enough on the old bar.  I was
surprised > > to find that my car allready had a 1" sway bar when I
actually measured it, > > I was really expecting 7/8. > > > > The bar
was such an improvement I had to say something.  I'm gonna start > >
dusting the CRXs in the corners too now. :) > > Ok folks.  I have seen
a lot of stories about what people have done to > spruce up their cars.
It's confession time!  How much do you have in > your cars.  I'll go
first since I started this topic. > > ca $4000, $1000 purchase price
1968 442 post coupe > > Chris Sparks > > I trying to see if their is
an end to the spending. :-)

Chris,

I bought my '68 442 4-speed convertible for $1550; bought net tires
($200), did brakes ($50), purchased Magnum 500 wheels ($20), rear
suspension bushings ($30), & repaired rear wheel bearing ($20) = $1870

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:00:47 -0400
Subject: Re: LT4 (was: Hurst/Pontiac???)

that is correct.  Mercury Marine was contracted to build the LT5 for the
ZR-1.  It is also 350 cid, but different bore and stroke than the LT1.
Also, it was the most expensive engine option in a car, $20k.  Oh,
better stop I forgot this is an olds mailing list. :)

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:04:50 -0400
Subject: catalytic converter

i was wondering what the benifits and draw backs to putting in a
straight pipe instead of the cat....

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:10 -0400
Subject: NOS in MD

<<<Worse is a Maryland law which prohibits the installation of
          nitrous oxide systems in street-driven cars.  >>>

I was living in MD when that law went into effect.  Have they changed to
an outright ban?  It was of interest to me because my car had/still has
nitrous.

The original law was that you had to install the DOT placard for the
nitrous on the front and rear of your car.  Dark green with black
emblem.  A really good way to attract the local troopers.  So,
naturally, we didn't put 'em on.
 According to several Montgomery County and MD State Troopers I talked
to, this was enforced only if you were stopped for doing something
stupid and they wanted to throw the book at you.

Of course, ol' Willy Don Schaeffer loves laws that protect you from
yourself.
 Has MD changed the speed limits on the interstates over 55 yet?  He
steadfastly refused to sign any legislation allowing that.  He's out
now, right?  Another "voted to office for life" politician.  'Course MD
is the state that gave us Spiro Agnew and another two or three sterling
politicians.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:19 -0400
Subject: Headers and brake lines

>>I hope that spot isn't at the brake proportioning valve, like it was
>>on my '68 442.  Everything was fine for me, until I hit a wet spot on
>>the road under hard acceleration one night.  The engine torqued over,
>>and the left header went right through the front brake line.  Of
??course, I didn't discover that until I tried to stop at the next red
>>light . . .      Up until then, I had thought that accelerating was
>>the exciting part!

You must have got the same box-with-no-instructions that I did.  After
spending hours and hours trying to get some Hooker headers into my '67 I
called the speed shop and was told there were instructions.  What a
novel concept for speed parts.       :-)

When I finally got that priceless piece of paper it said to relocate the
switch/valve out of the way.

I still got an exciting ride one night at the local track.  As I went
through the traps at ~106, the brake pedal went to the floor!!!  The
first "dual" master cylinder was in '67 and it doesn't WORK!

The flex line from one of the front wheel cylinders separated.  Yes, you
can at least slow the car down with the parking brake, but it is clearly
not the best way.  I took the turn at the end of track at about 40mph,
which was a lot of fun on slicks with about 6psi. :-0

After I cleaned out the drivers seat, I installed new lines on BOTH
sides.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:22 -0400
Subject: First Fully Auto Trans

>>The earliest A/T type that I can rememer was a sort of self shifter
that one >>of my uncles had in a '39, '40 or '41 Desoto.  It was not
truly an automatic >>as it had a clutch.

Well, first or not, the Olds HydraMatic was a much better design than
the Chrysler excuses of the time. (Just to make sure there is some Olds
content.)

That DeSoto/Dodge/etc. trans was made quite a few years.  Fluid Drive I
think it was called.  The "clutch" was engaged upon take off with no
lock up or bog.  But you had to disengage it when coming to a stop or
the engine could stall.

When I was 16, a friend's family had one.  Of course, being 16, we tried
every fool thing we could think of, like turning the ignition off and on
to produce backfires.

One of the things we noticed was that if you floored that old DeSoto,
the "clutch" would stick to the floor and not come up.  So we decided to
PULL it up.  What a riot, a guy in the driver's seat and one laying
acorss the trans hump under his legs, with engine revving (screaming was
not an option with a flathead 6) and jerking the darn peddle up.  We
could actually make the tires "chirp" with these antics. Otherwise the
car was a slug.  Big laughs, at the time anyway.

Another distinction this trans had, was it was the only car I have ever
driven that, on a sufficient hill, would actually start to slip
backwards down the hill with the engine floored and the trans in gear.
Fluid Drive was right.  More _Fluid_ than _Drive_.  :-))

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:18 -0400
Subject: GM 12 bolt posi (TYPE "O")

>>Many people have told me that the GM 12
>>bolt for the Olds is different than the Chevy, but the same for the
>>Pontiac.  Therefore the posi units are no longer avalable.  If anyone
>>has one of these new or in good used condition, please let me know!

You're right, the more common type "C" (named after/built by
you-know-who) is very much different than the type "O" (named
after/built by our favorite marque).  The "O" was only manufactured for
2-3 years.  So there isn't enough call for someone to start casting and
machining new cases.

While posi cases are not available (as far as I know) rebuild kits are.
 Unless the case you have is outright cracked or otherwise junk you
should be able to rebuild it.

Check with the gear suppliers that advertise in just about every
worthwhile auto magazine.  Ring and pinion gears are now available also.
Either Perfection American or Zoom. A great dealer I have used it Drive
Train Specilaties (DTS).  They (as well as others) even have the shims,
bearings, seals and gaskets in kit form so the rear can be set up
properly.

The prices you were quoted for gears are about twice the going rate it
you buy direct. Usual practice is to double the cost if you ask someone
else to order 'em for you.

If you want/need a stronger more available rear, the "C" 12 bolt, for
which parts are as common as sand on the beach, will bolt in with no
changes to your car. It came in the C*evelle after all. The rear U-joint
will need to be changed to a hybrid one.  NAPA and others carry such a
U-joint.

I've even got a W-27 cover on a "C" 12 bolt.  No bolt pattern match but
there is a way. If you know the guy who makes them, order one from him
without the holes drilled and use a gasket to drill the pattern for the
"C" cover.  Works great, even looks right since the "C" and "O" castings
had parallel ribs.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:17 -0400
Subject: Car Life Magazine

>>Car and Driver magazine bought out Car Life magazine somewhere in that
>>time frame.

Actually, it was Motor Trend.  I was a faithful subscriber to Car Life.
It was a great magazine.  Always great tongue in cheek articles and the
factories were not considered gods to be bowed to for their advertising
revenue.   Wonder if that had anything to do with it's demise?

When they were bought out, Peterson/Motor Trend did it.  They filled the
rest of my subscription for Car Life with Motor Trend.  There was no
comparison.
 No humor.  No gusto.  Too bad.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:20 -0400
Subject: Hurst Olds, Pontiac

I know the following thread has been around once or twice but seeing the
Hurst 'Bird in a magazine this month, it came home again.

With Warren Johnson now in a "Pontiac", the new Hurst Pontiac and the
fact there is no "real world" performance platforn for Olds (Indy Aurora
engines aren't exactly available or applicable) it's pretty clear that
GM has Olds positioned for a specific market - which isn't the same as
the majority of the folks on this list.

It seems to me that GM has decided that, rather than having models in
each Division that appeal to each of a number of classes or buyers, they
are moving toward Divisions that appeal, more or less, to a particular
class.  In spite of a rich history of performance and innovation, Olds
is abandoning it's heritage in favor of perceived marketing goals.

They almost died once, hope this doesn't return them to their position
in the 80s.

Bummer.  There isn't a single current Olds model that appeals to me, or
if it does, that I can justify the price.  Even then the Aurora doesn't
come with two doors.  The argument that 2-doors don't sell isn't true.
The Buick Riviera sells bunches of two doors and so does/did Caddy.

Like I said, different target customers seems to be the logic.

"Enjoy the Ride!" (I wish I could in a _new_ Olds.)

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:14 -0400
Subject: 70 Cutlass Engine Swap

 >>>You'll also need the accessory brackets (A/C,
 >>>    alternator, PS)

Not so.  All Olds engine blocks are drilled and tapped at the same
points, small block and big block.  As long as you use _all_ the _same_
pulleys, brackets, etc. from the 350 all that needs to be changed are
the fan belts.

Done it more than once guys.

Now, if you decide to mix the pulleys and brackets, while the pulley
grooves will line up (as far as I know anyway) you can easily run into
problems trying to run, for instance, the '70 power steering pump with
the later model brackets/pulleys.

Far and away the easiest method is to transfer all the pulleys,
brackets, accessories, etc. already in the car to the new engine.  There
_might_ be a problem with the water pump.  Again, keep the one you have
in the car already - - after swapping it for a rebuilt one of course!

It's really pretty simple through '72 at least.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:24 -0400
Subject: '68 442 hood

>>On my 68 442's hood I have the raised
>>center portion which leads to a ventilation grille.  Could someone
>>install some kind of air scoop in its place?

>>Just wonder'in.

>>Chris Sparks
>>68 442

You would get cooler air than in the engine compartment but no "ram"
effect.

I opened the louvers in the hood of my '67 once, used foam to seal the
air cleaner to the hood.  Can''t say it did much more than get my
ignition wet every time it rained.

:-)

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:15 -0400
Subject: 442 Wagons

>>If I remember right, there were actually a few 442 Wagons orderred and
produced
>>that first year.  Maybe I'm just drugged up, (with this flu thing and
all) >>but it seems to me that was the case.


>>      Charley Buehner

The factory assembled at least one "442 Wagon", it was a two door too I
think.  If they were available I would have bought it!!

There are several "clones" of this factory exercise.  But I am pretty
sure you could not order one.

OTOH, as another poster stated, if you knew the right people, you get
almost anything in any combination as long as it was in production.

This further upsets those in the "correct" crowd.  The fact is, if you
wanted it and it was available and you could pay for it, someone would
get it for you either as part of an order or after delivery.

So, after delivery isn't "original"?  Then neither are H/O's, Yenko, Mr.
Norm, various Pontiac models, etc.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:05:21 -0400
Subject: '72 442

In case this hasn't already been stated (I get the digest), the '72 442
was an appearance option and came standard with a 350, the 455 was
optional but available as another option..

Marked the end of 442's with big blocks as standard.  Which they had
been from 65-71.

"Enjoy the Ride!"

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:14:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> I use Hooker Supercomp headers and they are already predented for the
> steering rod.  I am not sure if it would help, probably not due to
that the > header goes straight down.  If the header kinds of hugs the
block on the > way down, it probably will clear. I have found out if you
buy Hedmann > or BlackJack, Cyclone and Eagle headers, they dont seem to
clear.  The > three latter type headers are made by one company.  I
suggest buying > the Hookers due to their unsurpassed quality.  No, I
dont work for Hooker, > I just use their products on my cars. > > W
MACHINES > 72 442 W-30 > > I am running "Blackjack" headers on my
car and they clear everything (except the brake valve which I had to
move to the top of the frame).  I

I definetly agree with Mark, get the Hooker Super comps, They
aredesigned much better than the Blackjacks, and they are available in
different tube diameters. The old saying holds true "you get what you
pay for" when it comes to headers.......

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:26:34 -0400
Subject: Re: New Baby

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> 11,500 orig. miles? Has it been kept outside most its life, for all
that > rust to occur?

Wow, I got a lot of comments on that one...

As I understood the former owner, the car was used by an older lady who
stopped driving it some years ago. The car basically sat outside
unscathed until the seals let go, then the rust started. Even though
the interior is mildewed and water-damaged there isn't any wear on the
seats or pedals like that seen on a high mileage car. Also, the trunk
area and such items as the exhaust system show no signs of the tye of
wear you'd get in driving 100,000+ miles. My nephew, who is a mechanic
(and who is helping me restore the car) agrees that the miles are
original.

The sad part is, if the car had been kept inside, it would be worth a
lot. Of course, I couldn't afford to own it, either... > > I suppose
the mechanicals are in good condition? Make sure _all_ the fluids > are
fresh; I bought a 17,000 mile '60 Pontiac, and the brake fluid was more >
like strawberry yogurt :(

Thanks for the tip. I intend to rebuild the brakes anyway, and I'll be
sure to change all of the fluids in the car. > > What engine is in
there?

The 350 with the 2bbl carb. I intend to change that real shortly, though
:)

JR
72 Cutlass S

P.S. Does anyone have a computer drawing of a Cutlass, (PCX, JPG, etc.)?

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:39:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Interchangable body parts

In a message dated 96-11-20 10:33:12 EST, you write:

> And to keep this post at least kinda Olds-related... does anyone know
>  for sure whether or not Oldsmobile shared (or shares, FTM) its FWD
>  98/Regency platform with Cadillac for the DeVille line?  My '89
Fleetwood >  looks like it has a longer wheelbase, but that could be a
mod that Fleetwood >  makes; perhaps the DeVille line is shorter and
equal to the 98? >

I used to have an '85 Sedan DeVille.  I thought it was a "C" body like
the Ninety Eight.  Your '89 has the skirts, right?  I thought that was
the only exterior styling difference from a DeVille.  '89 Ninety Eight
wheelbases were 110.8.  '89 DeVille and Fleetwood coupes were 110.8
also.  The sedans were 113.8, including the Sixty Special.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:39:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Help

In a message dated 96-11-20 11:55:23 EST, you write:

>  In 1970, he said that
>  they built a Pontiac Grand Prix.  I thought that they built a
Chrysler 300. >  I also thought that Hurst built a Rambler in '69.

This is all true.  I think the Hurst GPs were build from '70 thru '72.
 Special Interest Autos had an article about these just within the last
year.
 The Chrysler 300 was built in '70.  Production was 501.  The Rambler
was actually called the SC/Rambler-Hurst.  They build about 1500 of
them.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:46:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass engine swap



Agreed here.  I just put a set of Hooker competition headers on my 71
442.  No bending or hammering needed.  Nice fit.  Note that mine are
the regular competition headers, not supercomp.  The guy at Jegs said
the supercomp are actually less heavier duty, more suited to racing and
light weight.


>I suggest buying
>the Hookers due to their unsurpassed quality.  No, I dont work for
Hooker, >I just use their products on my cars.

>WMACHINES
>72 442 W-30


Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:04:17 -0400
Subject: Re: '75 Delta 88 Royale Convertible

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, MR STEPHEN A NELSON wrote:

> I have a '75 delta 88 with the 350 in it and I wanted to know if any
> one has the same as me and if you do I'm planing on maken it a little
> bite faster. I would like to say hi and ask if you have any
> suggestions.

I've got a '75 convertible, too, and mine has the 455 in it.  You can
see pictures of it at http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html.



Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #374
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