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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #364


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 12 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 364


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oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 11 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 360


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:01:11 -0400
Subject: Rust repair

Hey folks!

I have a couple rust through holes below my rear window.  I need a quick
and dirty (but neat and tidy) way to fix it.  I won't be making a
permanent fix (like welding in new metal), only a temporary one, but I
do want it to last as long as possible, and look decent.  What is the
best stuff to use? Bondo?  Fiberglass?  I've had some experience using
Bondo, but never used fiberglass before.  Which will give a neater
finished job?  I've seen fiberglass repairs that really look like crap,
all nasty and bulging.  I've seen (and done) bondo repairs that, well,
you almost couldn't see.  But fiberglass seems more durable.  Can it
look decent?

Opinions??

- - --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

- ------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:40:31 -0400
Subject: Restore or Modify???

I have a question regarding a 72 Cutlass 'S' I'm buying. It has @12,000
original miles, and is 100% complete. The problem is the seals have
deteriorated around all of the windows. The interior, although not worn,
is mildewed to trash. The worst problem is that the dash has rotted
through under the windsheild, and will need some serious surgery to
correct. I estimate that the repairs to get the car in shape will be
$2000.

I have always wanted one of these cars, but I would like something a
little more sporty - bucket seats, Hurst shifter, tac, mag wheels, etc.
I'm also thinking of fitting a custom dash/ guage cluster since I have
to remove the original one anyway.

My question is, then, should I take a low-mileage car like this and
modify it ? I don't intend to show it or sell it.

Comments?

Joe Roberts
joertexas@earthlink.net

- ------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:05:17 -0400
Subject: Watta_day

This has been what generally gets referred to as an 'Ah S---' day.

 #1
It was glorious weather, in the low 70s. The day started with
discovering that the heater in the 67 Cutlass convertible did not
produce heat. Checked for vacuum (the car has AC and one of those
valves that were debated about a few weeks ago). Checked the vacuum and
it was strong, so jumped to the conclusion it must be a plugged heater
because the hoses were cool close to the cowl and warmer the closer
back to the engine.

Step #1 was to backflush the heater so I got a bunch of hoses and
adapters and set up a garden hose to flow through the heater. With
great trepidation the flow was started at a very low rate (the last
thing I wanted to do was burst the core and flood the interior). After
water going in the Out started coming out the In, the rate was
gradually increased. Bursts of rusty water came out mixed with clear,
but it was obvious there was no obstruction.

After cleaning up and everything back together again it was time to go
for a run to see if by some miracle, there was heat in the cabin. No
luck. It looks like the hunt begins Monday for a new vacuum switch.

 a) If anybody has a lead on where to get a vacuum switch for an air
    conditioned 67 Cutlass, please let me know.

That was the best part of the day!

 #2
Before going on, typing this reminded me of an item which should have
been sent out a couple of months ago. To do some work on the Cutlass, I
pushed it out into the open and a couple of hours later had to start
it. The car was in neutral and the battery must have been dead because
there was absolutely nothing. After fiddling around in neutral a while,
I put the transmission in Park, and boom, the battery kicked into life.


The car went in to get the transmission switch fixed but after paying
for the labor to have the console pulled out and a new switch
installed, the mechanic tells me there is no way to start the car in
neutral. I don't remember this being true back in the 60's but he swore
up and down it must have been because there is only one switch in his
parts book and that does not let the car start in neutral.

  a) All you guys out there with 67 models, does your car start in
neutral
     or is the ignition locked out everywhere except in Park?

  b) If the car should start in neutral, does anybody have an idea on
the
     part number?

Back to today.

 #3
Since the hoses were out, I decided to give our full size 88 Buick wagon
 which has an Olds 307 a flush. I'd have preferred a Custom Cruiser
because it has gauges, but the Buick was a 1-owner, near-perfect car
that had been serviced every 3,000 miles.

The overflow bottle was low (not empty) but when I popped the radiator
cap my eyes nearly bugged out of my head. As far down as the eye could
see there was no water!

This is Momma's favorite driver, and she has been Christmas shopping
every day for the last 2 weeks (overseas surface mail to her family had
to be in at the PO last week). She is absolutely neurotic about
anything abnormal, so I know that there can have been no warning
lights. The only thing that has come on is the Level Low light when the
washers were used, because I heard about that a week ago.

The wagon has idiot lights for Temp/Amps/Oil when the ignition turns on
plus a Service Engine Soon light controlled by the computer detecting
sensor out of bound conditions. I've seen the Service Engine Soon
before now, and wound up replacing the O2 sensor as a result of it, so
it definitely used to work.

To do a flush and leak detect at the same time, I drained the radiator,
refilled it with Prestone SuperFlush and water and went for the
10-minute drive that is recommended. After returning, I popped the hood
to look for the leak. To my dismay it was all too easy.

It was like Yellowstone, with hissing and bubbling and steam rising. It
came from behind the power steering pump, above the temperature sender.
There is so much hardware in the road that it was impossible to see
exactly where the leak was from but my suspicion is a blown head
gasket.

After the car cooled, I replaced the Super Flush with water and then it
was off to raise the temperature again. This time, when I returned,
there was no Yellowstone, just a green trail on the block where it had
been. Super Flush must be more volatile, or maybe it runs at a higher
temperature.

This is a low mileage car with only 85,000 miles on it. I've never had a
 head gasket go out on any car before and have only heard stories about
them failing shortly after an engine rebuild. Has anything like this
happened to someone else's car that's been trouble free for so long? If
anybody has an explanation as to the cause of such a failure, I'd
appreciate it.

The only theory that comes to mind is that the engine overheated, but
there were no indicators that anything was wrong, either a Temp light
or a Service Engine Soon light.

An over-temp raises the specter of a cracked block and/or a cracked
head. It looks like first thing Monday morning it goes into the local
garage. If the block is cracked, I hate the idea of having to replace a
307 with a 307, because the thing is absolutely gutless. Our 78 had a
403 and it was no street racer but at least it could get out of its own
way.

  a) Assuming the worst case, a cracked block, is there any reason not
to
     drop in a 403 and use the 307 heads?

  b) Are the two close enough that the computer can manage that
combination?

  c) I'm in the Northern California Bay Area and the same paranoia is
true
     up here as it is in Los Angeles. Is my assumption valid that a 403
     w/88 307 controls would pass emissions?

Why on earth would GM put a low level detect in the washer bottle and
not put one in the overflow tank? The first is a nicety, the second is
a sure clue that water is disappearing out of a closed system. Maybe
I'll head for a junkyard and pull the bits 'n pieces for the washer
alert and jury rig my own coolant detect.

 #4
Total change of subject here, but our 78 wagon had a rear anti-sway bar
so after picking up the 88, I went over to the dealer to order one.
Although the figure clearly showed a rear bar the part number reference
was to the front bar. Apparently GM dropped the rear bar in the early
80's.

None of the independent manufacturers make a sway bar for the wagon. The
 full size wagon lasted virtually unchanged from 1976 to 1989, long
after they'd switched the sedan models over to front wheel drive. The
sway bar is not shared with the sedans, the wagon has a 2" wider track
at the rear than sedans and even the largest Cadillacs use the same bar
as the rear wheel Olds 88/98, Le Sabre/Limited etc.

  a) If any of you guys ever come across a full size wagon with a bar on
the
     back in a junkyard I'd appreciate you pulling it off. Email me and
I'll
     pay the cost and shipping.


I've numbered the questions above in case you want to reply
individually, or only give an answer to one of the questions over the
reflector. This may be taking the 'subject' line to an extreme but
there are four different items above that bear no relation to each
other.

Sunday's got to be a better day!

Dal

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:41:26 -0400
Subject: G.M. Trivia

For those of you that deal with G.M. trivia, I read about 1/4th of
"Setting The Pace, Oldsmobile's First 100 Years" by Earley and
Walkinshaw, which brought me up to the mid-1920's, and the Copper Cooled
Oldsmobile.  Yes folks Olds built them too.  However, their production
was in very small numbers, probably about ten, and was intended as
prototype construction, not consumer bound; as was the case at
Chevrolet.

Chevrolet did produce about 500 units, of which 100 were delivered to
retail customers.  All that were still in company hands, and all that
could be recalled from customers were destroyed, leaving very few today.
Two, based on our very knowledgeable readers.

I believe that Copper Cooled production was instituted by an edict from
on high, not by division planning.  Also apparantly, GM, wanted all
production by at least 1924, (if not sooner) from Chevy to be C.C., and
Olds to follow shortly thereafter.

Earley and Walkinshaw indicate that the heart of the cooling problem was
that air was drawn from the rear of the engine compartment forward, and
attempted to exit near the front; where natural airflow of the moving
car was in the opposite direction.  Obviously an unsatisfactory
condition, and one answered by a unilateral discontinuance of production
instead of solving the problem engineering wise!

Are you ready for some more G.M. trivia?

1. At the time of WWII, army combat tanks had a mean time between
failure rate (MTBF) typically of between 5 and 10 miles.  That means
exactly what it says; something will fail in the unit before it has
operated for 5 to 10 miles; obviously this does not mean that the
failure is necessarily catastropic, but something will fail.  Early in
WWII, a GM division took a tank powered by a radial airplane engine;
redesigned the power train and then proceeded to drive it from Michigan
to Washington, D.C., stopping only for fuel.  Tank fuel economy is
usually measured in gallons per mile, not the opposite!  So there must
have been many stops.  That had to have been a here-to-for unknown feat;
and probably considered impossible until it was done. This tank would go
into series production, too.  Which division did it?  What part of the
drive train was from GM?  What was the tank?  And it wasn't the M24
Chaffee.

2. When did Olds first use an engine with over head valves, in their
regular production?

3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car production,
even though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why didn't they use
this early V8 for their auto production?  What year did they finally get
around to using one?

4. What G.M. car division was started by Henry Ford?  (Yes the Henry
Ford.)

5. Why did the Germans pay GM royalties well into WWII?

Has everyone give up on the earlier questions; several remain untested.

A. What does the acronym DELCO mean, and who in the GM heirachy came
from there?

B. Why was GM the last user of the Knight sleeve valve engine?

C. What was the principal asset acquired with the purchase of the
Cleveland engine company ca. 1929?

                       I would like to speak to those that shout heresy.

I am afraid that I am much more a GM affectionato, than just an
Oldsmobile one.  My everyday car is an Oldsmobile, by choice, but I
would rather look at things with a GM perspective, instead the narrower
thread of "just Oldsmobile."  GM became the worlds most successful car
producer because it provided cars to most every taste.  In the end I
like Oldsmobiles, as they still fairly well fulfill my taste in cars.
My first new car was a 1968 Chevrolet.  It had a 390hp 427ci engine, and
every car I've owned since has been pretty much down hill from there.  I
worked at Saint Louis Chevrolet at the time, and my boss and I went over
to the old wood shop and followed my car along as it was assembled.  The
production boss where there too, and I think the Corvette engineering
factory man.  With so many prying eyes, the car had the best paint job
I've ever seen on a factory car.  And yes I like Chevrolet too.  My
father would extol the virtues of Buick.

HOWEVER: to those of you that think Olds is so pure, they sure f..ked
over most everyone that bought one of their well touted and poorly
executed diesels.  Chevrolet had their copper cooled disaster, and Olds
had the diesel.  Chevrolet recalled theirs; Olds just ignored them.
They alone, fairly well destroyed the U.S. public's perception of the
value of the diesel engine for use in an automobile.  In the late 1970's
the company I worked for had regular gasoline and diesel fuel for their
truck fleet. Until the advent of no-lead engines, the company cars could
use regular gasoline.  When no-lead became standard the obvious choice
was diesel cars. Of course it would have been nice if they had been good
cars, instead of Oldsmobiles.  The up side of those cars was that before
they failed, and failed they did, they got 22-27 miles per gallon, while
the similar gasoline cars came in at 15-18 (highway).  The most common
cause was the failure of the rear main bearing cap.  They simply
disintegrated.  A friend has over 300,000 miles on his Mercedes diesel,
so the problem was not diesel fueled engines, but simply Oldsmobile.
They had to be sued to recognized their failure.  We put a number of
gasoline engines in what were low milage ex-diesel cars, inorder to get
full use out of the rest of the car.  And I bought a later gasoline
Oldsmobile anyway, I suppose, on the basis of everyone can have a bad
day!!!  And of course, I like Oldsmobiles.

And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat (if
that's not the ultimate oximoron).  You are willing to accept second
best, and don't give a damn about what it cost.  Oldsmobile derived
products are generally quite acceptable, but not necessarily, the best,
where the ultimate bang for the buck is concerned.  Some of the other
divisions do have an occasional successes.  I'd suggest give Oldsmobile
their due, but acknowledge the others, as they do some things very well
too.

I feel like I've been preaching, which I don't like to do.  And no I'm
not a republican either, both of the major parties are much to liberal
to my taste.  To briefly explain my politics: there are at least three
elements of our society that are currently under terrible political
pressure, and in the negative sense.

First and foremost is the freedom of speech, how does the freedom of
speech and political correct speech intersect.  Second is from those
political aspirants that would have us driving electric cars, or if not
electric cars, gasoline cars no older than four years.  (Hows that for
planned obsolesence?)  Third is the right to keep and bear arms.  You
think we have an unreasonable and overzeallous government?  What do you
think you would have with an un-armed populace?  When Mrs. Reno murdered
those people in Waco, and in my name, I began to totally rethink my
political position; and it is much removed than it was a year to two
ago.

Actually the Constitution is just being ignored.  A few years ago, Judge
Borke was not admitted to the Supreme Court, because he though the
Constitution should be the main law of the land, silly man.

There is an interesting parallel to what is happening here right now,
and what was going on in Germany in 1937 or so; when that government
began murdering those elements of it's population that it didn't like
because they adhered to what was considered some sort of "wacky"
religion...  In 1937 the German unit of extermination was one or two
here a small group there; it would take some years before the unit of
measure would be the trainload at the Berlin Banhof.  So far it's been
Waco and Ruby ridge, who's next. Remember, you don't get to decide
whether or not your religion is "wacko," they do.  But then we have a
constitutional guarantee about the freedom of religion.  Didn't we.
Well we once did.

And the problem isn't democrats or republicans or both.  I recently saw
a bumper sticker in four lines:

First they took away the sixth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
because I'm not a drug dealer.
Second they took away the fourth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
because I'm not a
Third they took away the second amendment, and I didn't say anything,
becasue I don't own a gun;
Now they took away the first amendment, and I can't say anything.

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:03:57 -0400
Subject: G.M. Trivia

This was supposed to go out in two sections.  I accidentially hit send
early; the bottom half being undone, and unseparated.  So I'll try
again.

For those of you that deal with G.M. trivia, I read about 1/4th of
"Setting The Pace, Oldsmobile's First 100 Years" by Earley and
Walkinshaw, which brought me up to the mid-1920's, and the Copper Cooled
Oldsmobile.  Yes folks Olds built them too.  However, their production
was in very small numbers, probably about ten, and was intended as
prototype construction, not consumer bound; as was the case at
Chevrolet.

Chevrolet did produce about 500 units, of which approximately 100 were
delivered to retail customers.  All that were still in company hands,
and all that could be recalled from customers were destroyed, leaving
very few today.  Two, based on our very knowledgeable readers.

I believe that Copper Cooled production was instituted by an edict from
on high, not by division planning.  Also apparantly, GM, wanted all
production by at least 1924, (if not sooner) from Chevy to be C.C., and
Olds to follow shortly thereafter.

Earley and Walkinshaw indicate that the heart of the cooling problem was
that air was drawn from the rear of the engine compartment forward, and
attempted to exit near the front; where natural airflow of the moving
car was in the opposite direction.  Obviously an unsatisfactory
condition, and one answered by a unilateral discontinuance of production
instead of solving the problem engineering wise!

Are you ready for some more G.M. trivia?

1. At the time of WWII, army combat tanks had a mean time between
failure rate (MTBF) typically of between 5 and 10 miles.  That means
exactly what it says; something will fail in the unit before it has
operated for 5 to 10 miles; obviously this does not mean that the
failure is necessarily catastropic, but something will fail.  Early in
WWII, a GM division took a tank powered by a radial airplane engine;
redesigned the power train and then proceeded to drive it from Michigan
to Washington, D.C., stopping only for fuel.  Tank fuel economy is
usually measured in gallons per mile, not the opposite!  So there must
have been many stops.  That had to have been a here-to-for unknown feat;
and probably considered impossible until it was done. This tank would go
into series production, too.  Which division did it?  What part of the
drive train was from GM?  What was the tank?  And it wasn't the M24
Chaffee.

2. When did Olds first use an engine with over head valves, in their
regular production?

3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car production,
even though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why didn't they use
this early V8 for their auto production?  What year did they finally get
around to using one?

4. What G.M. car division was started by Henry Ford?  (Yes the Henry
Ford.)

5. Why did the Germans pay GM royalties well into WWII?

Has everyone give up on the earlier questions; several remain untested.

A. What does the acronym DELCO mean, and who in the GM heirachy came
from there?

B. Why was GM the last user of the Knight sleeve valve engine?

C. What was the principal asset acquired with the purchase of the
Cleveland engine company ca. 1929?

That was supposed to be the end of part one sorry.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 re-engined with a 455
1979 Olds Delta 88 diesel
1931 Olds Patrican
1931 Olds 4-door

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:22:54 -0400
Subject: Heresy?



                       I would like to speak to those that shout heresy.

I am afraid that I am much more a GM affectionato, than just an
Oldsmobile one.  My everyday car is an Oldsmobile, by choice, but I
would rather look at things with a GM perspective, instead the narrower
thread of "just Oldsmobile."  GM became the worlds most successful car
producer because it provided cars to most every taste.  In the end I
like Oldsmobiles, as they still fairly well fulfill my taste in cars.
My first new car was a 1968 Chevrolet.  It had a 390hp 427ci engine, and
every car I've owned since has been pretty much down hill from there.  I
worked at Saint Louis Chevrolet at the time, and my boss and I went over
to the old wood shop and followed my car along as it was assembled.  The
production boss where there too, and I think the Corvette engineering
factory man.  With so many prying eyes, the car had the best paint job
I've ever seen on a factory car.  And yes I like Chevrolet too.  And my
father would extol the virtues of Buick.

HOWEVER: to those of you that think Olds is so pure, they sure f..ked
over most everyone that bought one of their well touted and poorly
executed diesels.  Chevrolet had their copper cooled disaster, and Olds
had the diesel.  Chevrolet recalled theirs; Olds just ignored them.
They alone, fairly well destroyed the U.S. public's perception of the
value of the diesel engine for use in an automobile.  In the late 1970's
the company I worked for had regular gasoline and diesel fuel for their
truck fleet. Until the advent of no-lead engines, the company cars could
use leaded gasoline.  When no-lead became standard the obvious choice
was diesel cars. Of course it would have been nice if they had been good
cars, instead of Oldsmobiles.  The up side of those cars was that before
they failed, and failed they did, they got 22-27 miles per gallon, while
the similar gasoline cars came in at 15-18 (highway).  The most common
problem was the failure of the rear main bearing cap.  They simply
disintegrated.  A friend has over 300,000 miles on his Mercedes diesel,
so the problem was not diesel fueled engines, but simply Oldsmobile.
They had to be sued to recognized their failure.  We put a number of
gasoline engines in what were low milage ex-diesel cars, inorder to get
full use out of the rest of the car.  And I bought a later gasoline
Oldsmobile anyway, I suppose, on the basis of everyone can have a bad
day!!!  And of course, I like Oldsmobiles.

And those that do shout heresy, you are like any good democrat (if
that's not the ultimate oxymoron).  You are willing to accept second or
third best, and don't give a damn about what it cost.  Oldsmobile
derived products are generally quite acceptable, but not necessarily,
the best, where the ultimate bang for the buck is concerned.  Some of
the other divisions do have their occasional successes.  I'd suggest
give Oldsmobile their due, but acknowledge the others, as they do some
things very well too.

I feel like I've been preaching, which I don't like to do.  But then
after Tuesday's election, I feel the old adage the people get the
government they deserve, runs deep; and it runs true.  And no I'm not a
republican either, both of the major parties are much too
anti-constitutional to my taste.  To briefly explain my politics today:
there are at least three elements of our society that are currently
under terrible political pressure, and in the negative sense.  There may
be others I have not recognized yet, also.   I feel like I'm being
personally being attacked, because I'm not infavor of what the
government would have us do in any of these three elements.  And then we
hang together, or we hang separately!

First and foremost is the freedom of speech, how does the freedom of
speech and political correct speech intersect, for example.  Second is
from those political aspirants that would have us driving electric cars,
or if not electric cars, gasoline cars no older than four years.  (How's
that for planned obsolesence?)  Third is the right to keep and bear
arms.  You think we have an unreasonable and overzeallous government?
What do you think you would have with an un-armed populace?  When Mrs.
Reno ordered those people murdered in Waco, and in my name, I began to
totally rethink my political position; and it is much removed than it
was a year to two ago.

Actually the Constitution is just being ignored, or rather invalidated.
A few years ago, Judge Borke was not admitted to the Supreme Court,
because he thought the Constitution should be the main law of the land,
silly man.

There is an interesting parallel to what is happening here right now,
and what was going on in Germany in 1937 or so; when the German
government began murdering those elements of it's population that it
didn't like because (their excuse for their actions) they adhered to
what was considered some sort of "wacko" religion...  In 1937 the German
unit of extermination was one or two here a small group there; it would
take some years before the unit of measure would expand to be the
trainload at the Berlin Banhof.  So far it's been Waco and Ruby Ridge,
and who's next.  Remember, you don't get to decide whether or not your
religion is "wacko," they do.  But then we have a constitutional
guarantee about the freedom of religion.  Didn't we.

And the problem isn't democrats or republicans it's both.  I recently
saw a bumper sticker in four lines:

First they took away the fourth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
because I'm not a drug dealer.
Second they took away the sixth ammendment, and I didn't say anything,
because I'm innocent.
Third they took away the second amendment, and I didn't say anything,
because I don't own a gun;
Now they took away the first amendment, and I can't say anything.

And that pretty much said it all.


Cliff Feiler
4 Oldsmobiles
2 Chevrolets
5 Buicks
1 Dodge
2 Fords
And a partridge in a pear tree

- ------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:09:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

Dal, my condolences. I've had days like that....

I'm confused on the Cutlass heater vac switch. I checked my parts book
and can't find a specific switch that sounds like what you've described.
 Can you give a little more detail as to what exactly it is and/or is
there a part # stamped on it?

As for the wagon's coolant leak, is it possible it might be an intake
manifold leak instead of a head gasket? I've heard of problems on that
vintage 307 with them. Apparently there is a bimetellic corrosion issue
there. It might explain the leak and be a lot less of a job to fix than
the head gasket theory. I know about thinking you might have a cracked
head or block - my mind works the exact same way when something goes
wrong, I always jump to the worst-case conclusion. But hopefully that's
not the issue here.

I'm sure others will jump in with their disgnosis, sorry I couldn't be
more helpful. Have strength... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- ------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:41:07 -0400
Subject: "W-Machines", Olds Performance Mag collection for sale

- -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS. - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------




For sale:

W-Machines Magazines - A publication of the Performance Chapter
of The Oldsmobile Club of America

Dedicated to "Items of interest to Olds nuts" Each issue
contains a feature article, part-number finders, performance tips,
want-ads, etc.

34 issues from 1982-1988 - $100 plus shipping
- - --

                                      Regards,

                                              Michael J. Wolski

                                              ISSC UNIX Support
                                              Texaco Acct @ THP

                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp

                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'

- ------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:46:07 -0400
Subject: Hi-Perf Small Block Olds motor for sale

- -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS. - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------



For Sale:

Small-Block Olds Hi-Perf Street/Bracket-Race Motor. Never Run. Nearly
$10K invested.  Sacrifice: $2,500 (negotiable)

Approx 409CID / 10.4:1 CR. Internals include: Kenne-Bell, Milidon,
Mondello, Arias, Comp. Cams, Fischer, TRW, etc.

Balanced; blueprinted; main & head studs; roller cam, rockers, and
timing gears; stud girdle; deep pan; hi-vol pump, ; windage tray &
scraper; pseudo-W31 heads; (big valves, small chambers, divided exhaust;
ported, polished & matched; Accell; Offy; Tilton super-starter and more!
Email wolskmj@texaco.com for specs and additional info.
(If email bounces, try wolskmj@cyberspace.org)
- - --

                                      Regards,

                                              Michael J. Wolski

                                              ISSC UNIX Support
                                              Texaco Acct @ THP

                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp

                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'

- ------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:39:11 -0400
Subject: Edelbrock "Victor" Olds Intake 4 sale

- -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS. - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------



For Sale:

Edelbrock "Victor" Intake for Small Block Oldsmobile &
Batten heads - Brand new. Never used. $220 new.
Sacrifice $75 + shipping & COD.
- - --

                                      Regards,

                                              Michael J. Wolski

                                              ISSC UNIX Support
                                              Texaco Acct @ THP

                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp

                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
                                    Alternate: wolskmj@cyberspace.org
                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'

- ------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:04:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

Your first blown head gasket? Seems like that is my commonest major
problem. They can go fast or they can go slow. Sounds like you caught
yours immediately ater it blew. Shouldn't have any ill effects on heads
or block unless the car is driven for a while after the gasket is gone.
What you take for a s**t day sounds like a normal day for me. chuck rowe

- ------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:48:13 -0400
Subject: Neutral Safety Switch

Dal,
Re starting your 67 cutlass in neutral, I'd be amazed if your mechanic
was right that there's no way to start these cars in neutral. I have a
66 98 and the switch (located at the bottom of the steering column)
works in both Park and Neutral. I'd be amazed if Olds decided to do
something diff'rent in the A bodies.

Cutlass 442 guys? Who out there with a 67 can confirm that the safety
switch allows the car to be started in Neutral as well as Park?

Now that we're on the topic, I can relay that my switch required some
adjustment
recently. I had spun the steering column (dumbly) with the dash removed.
On mine there is a slot on either end of the switch and the switch is
held in place with two 1/4" sheet metal screws. The slot allows you to
position the switch whereever it works best. Good GM design, fixable and
adjustable.

Good luck
!
Chris Fair

- ------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:33:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Restore or Modify???

>I have a question regarding a 72 Cutlass 'S' I'm buying. It has @12,000
 >original miles, and is 100% complete. >My question is, then, should I
take a low-mileage car like this and modify it >? I don't intend to
show it or sell it.

I'm not a fanatic about originality or anything, but I would be inclined
to restore it to original. - - -- Dave Paulison                  1969
Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

- ------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:28:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

> for vacuum (the car has AC and one of those valves that were debated
about a > few weeks ago). Checked the vacuum and it was strong, so
jumped to the > conclusion it must be a plugged heater because the
hoses were cool close to

What happens when the vacuum line to that heater water valve is
disconnected?

> It was like Yellowstone, with hissing and bubbling and steam rising.
It came > from behind the power steering pump, above the temperature
sender. There is

I agree with Greg here.  1985-90 Code Y 307's had aluminum intake
manifolds.  These models are known for corrosion problems around the
water passages where the intake meets the heads.  GM even has a service
bulletin regarding this issue.

> Total change of subject here, but our 78 wagon had a rear anti-sway
bar so

A few years ago, my '77 Custom Cruiser friend was searching for a rear
stabilizer bar, and could only find a listing for '77 Chev wagons.
Perhaps your '78 had a sedan rear axle swapped in (it will fit).

> None of the independent manufacturers make a sway bar for the wagon.
The > full size wagon lasted virtually unchanged from 1976 to 1989,
long after

I spoke to someone with a '92 Custom Cruiser.  He managed to find one
from:

Addco Industries, Inc.
715 13th St.
Lake Park, Florida 33403
800-338-7015 or 407-842-6102 or 561-842-6102

The list price is about $159.00, but this person ordered his bar from RD
Enterprises (619-282-8550) for about $120.00.  Part number 943 should
fit all wagons from 1977-96.  Apparently, this stabilizer doesn't attach
to the rear control arms in the same fashion as the stock ones.  He has
also installed Koni adjustables, and is very pleased with the improved
handling.

Kevin Wong

- ------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:31:56 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 05:41 AM 11/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>1. At the time of WWII, army combat tanks had a mean time between
failure [snip] Don't know much about history... >2. When did Olds first
use an engine with over head valves, in their regular >production? Don't
know much about (valvetrain) geometry... >3. What was the last G.M. car
division to use a V8 for car production, even >though they did build a
V8 in the WWI period?  Why didn't they use this >early V8 for their auto
production?  What year did they finally get around >to using one?

I was going to say Chevy, but they put their early V-8 in their cars.
Was it Pontiac[Oakland], who used a version of a V-8 in a truck?

- - -----------
- - - Bob Barry
- - - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

- ------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:53:50 -0400
Subject: RE: Olds List Member Registry Update

- - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCF07.7BC43EC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've submitted my information on the form four times and haven't made it
into the Registry yet???

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

- - ----------
From:  Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca]
Sent:  Saturday, November 09, 1996 2:55 PM
To:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:  Re: Olds List Member Registry Update

On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html
>
> >From there, there is a link to both the addition form, and also the
> Registry itself.  Hey! Now you only have one site name to remember for
it!

Yep, that was a problem before. I could never get to the thing, but this
 address works fine now.

> Also, we've only got 42 out of 200'n something members who've filled
out > the form!  The Toro-List has got probably 85 to 90 percent of
their > members in their Registry!  We're falling far behind y'all!
I'd think > that particularly some of the more active people on the
list would've > filled it out.  I've gotten nothing from you Bryce or
Greg B.  Come on > now, this thing only takes about a minute or two to
fill out!

Geez, now I know what it feels like to be singled out! And anyhow,
don't try to compare us to the Toro guys... after all, Tom Cochrane and
Red Rider did a song about them a few years back called "Lunatic
Fringe", didn't he? ;-)

OK, just kidding... really, guys, really!

I finally filled it out. Feedback you want, feedback you're gonna get;
after all, I'm apparently the only person on the face of the earth who
(a) not only doesn't like the user interface of Win95, but (b) has all
kinds of problems every day with using it. So I guess I'm sensitive to
such issues. I'll drop you a private note on the subject.

Thanks, Clay!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada





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- - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCF07.7BC43EC0--

- ------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:04:10 -0400
Subject: 64 Cutlass reverse-light lenses 4 sale

- -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS. - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------




For Sale:

Pair of reverse-light lenses for 64 Cutlass.  Original.

Good condition.  Marked: 5955113 1    GUIDE 3Z SAE R 64

$10 Plus shipping & COD.
- - --

                                      Regards,

                                              Michael J. Wolski

                                              ISSC UNIX Support
                                              Texaco Acct @ THP

                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp

                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
                                    Alternate: wolskmj@cyberspace.org
                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'

- ------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:59:09 -0400
Subject: Visionary '98 442 sketches ready

A while back there was talk of drawing up some sketches for a new 442
based on the F-body platform.  Well, I did a little pencil pushing and
came up with some, and thanks to Charley Buehner, they are ready for
download. They're not of professional quality, but you guys might like
'em.  I'd like to know what everyone thinks, and to see which proposal
is the most popular. After I get a inkling for what the enthusiasts
(that means you) want, I'll try to do a more "professional" job and
incorporate everyones ideas.

While I believe Charley sent these to the Bryceman, I don't believe
there up on the page as of now.  As it would reak havoc on the server, I
don't plan on sending them to the whole list, but if you would like to
see them, e-mail me privately and I'll send them to your personal
address.

Once again, this is a chance for everyone's dreams to be put on paper
(and screen), so I'd like your input so that we can design the
awesomest, most fantabulous, tire burning, corner turning, fine looking
442 since the days of bell-bottoms and Vietnam.

Thanks,
Aaron

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

- ------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:31:53 -0400
Subject: Re: I bought it!

At 11:09 PM 11/9/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I took the wife with me to Concord this AM and begged her appropriately
 >so I am now the proud owner of the 83 Calias w/t-tops and the 403.

Congrats! As long as the tranny holds up, you'll have one nice ride!

>What is the orginal color of the 403?? the one in this car is ugly. Not
 >sure I can describe the color.

The original color should be "corporate blue"; not all that special.

- - -----------
- - - Bob Barry
- - - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

- ------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:26:16 -0400
Subject: Stuff for sale

I've got a few '68 Cutlass parts for sale:

Blue glove box door.  Good shape.  "S" emblem and Cutlass script on
lower right, showing some pitting/corossion.

A-pillar stainless trim for '68 convertible.  Both sides, excellent
shape.

Header trim for '68 convertible.  Rusty, needs repainting.

Ignition switch, no key.

Knobs for headlights and wipers.

Blue plastic trim piece that goes under the steering column.

Some T-3 headlights, tested and working.

RH exhaust manifold, single exhaust type, #6.

Crossover pipe for single exhaust.  The one that goes from the LH xman,
under the engine, to the RH xman.

If interested, email me privately.  Thanks!
- - --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

- ------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:31:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

At 03:05 AM 11/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>This has been what generally gets referred to as an 'Ah S---' day.
[snip]
> #3
>Since the hoses were out, I decided to give our full size 88 Buick
wagon >which has an Olds 307 a flush. I'd have preferred a Custom
Cruiser because [snip] >It was like Yellowstone, with hissing and
bubbling and steam rising. It came >from behind the power steering
pump, above the temperature sender. There is >so much hardware in the
road that it was impossible to see exactly where the >leak was from but
my suspicion is a blown head gasket. [snip] >An over-temp raises the
specter of a cracked block and/or a cracked head. It

Or quite possibly a warped head, which allowed the gasket to blow. In
that case, resurfacing the head should solve the problem.

[snip]
>  a) Assuming the worst case, a cracked block, is there any reason not
to >     drop in a 403 and use the 307 heads?

That would depend upon how stringent they are for checking numbers.
Don't use the 307's heads, though; do it right and use some 7a heads
from a '72 350. That will be the same combination of numbers and letters
on your 307's heads; only the spacing would be different, so an
inspector shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

>  c) I'm in the Northern California Bay Area and the same paranoia is
true >     up here as it is in Los Angeles. Is my assumption valid that
a 403 >     w/88 307 controls would pass emissions?

That could be done. I'd say that's the way to go (but I'm biased toward
403's, though).

- - -----------
- - - Bob Barry
- - - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

- ------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:52:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch

Umm, well I thought he was talking about a console shifter, not a column
one.  On my '69 column shifter (ahem, gear selector) I do have the
switch mounted on the lower portion of the column.  I can start the car
in neutral or park.  Don't know how the console shifters were.  I'm also
assuming we're talking about an automatic transmission, since we're
mentioning the "Park" position.  Standard transmissions will *only*
start with the car in neutral, right?  I've never owned an Olds standard
tranny car, but I've had others, and they all would only start in
neutral.  I don't know if console automatic tranny gear selectors will
start in neutral or not, but my column one will.

- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

>Re starting your 67 cutlass in neutral, I'd be amazed if your mechanic
was >right that there's no way to start these cars in neutral. I have a
66 98 >and the switch (located at the bottom of the steering column)
works in >both Park and Neutral. I'd be amazed if Olds decided to do
something diff'rent >in the A bodies. > >Cutlass 442 guys? Who out there
with a 67 can confirm that the safety switch >allows the car to be
started in Neutral as well as Park? - - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:10:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Edelbrock "Victor" Olds Intake 4 sale

At 07:39 AM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
>OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>For Sale:
>
>Edelbrock "Victor" Intake for Small Block Oldsmobile &
>Batten heads - Brand new. Never used. $220 new.
>Sacrifice $75 + shipping & COD.
>--
>
>                                      Regards,
>
>                                              Michael J. Wolski
>
>                                              ISSC UNIX Support
>                                              Texaco Acct @ THP
>
>                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp
>
>                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
>                                    Alternate: wolskmj@cyberspace.org
>                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
>      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
>       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'
>
>
>
>
Besides a dog, I like a cat,
and a good one can help you type,
they just don't spell well.

Cliff Feiler
Too many cars

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:14:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch

At 11:48 AM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dal,
>Re starting your 67 cutlass in neutral, I'd be amazed if your mechanic
was >right that there's no way to start these cars in neutral. I have a
66 98 >and the switch (located at the bottom of the steering column)
works in >both Park and Neutral. I'd be amazed if Olds decided to do
something diff'rent >in the A bodies. > >Cutlass 442 guys? Who out there
with a 67 can confirm that the safety switch >allows the car to be
started in Neutral as well as Park? > >Now that we're on the topic, I
can relay that my switch required some >adjustment >recently. I had spun
the steering column (dumbly) with the dash removed. On >mine there is a
slot on either end of the switch and the switch is held in >place with
two 1/4" sheet metal screws. The slot allows you to position the >switch
whereever it works best. Good GM design, fixable and adjustable. > >Good
luck >! >Chris Fair > > > > > It's a neutral starting switch, why
wouldn't it start in neutral?

Every car I've ever owned with an automatic would start in neutral or
park! This list incpludes a '80 Cutlass.

I think your wrench was strangely trained.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Delta 88 repowered with a 455
1979 Delra 88 diesel
1931 Olds Patrician
1931 Olds 4-door

- ------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:24:12 -0400
Subject: RE: Watta_day

>This is a low mileage car with only 85,000 miles on it. I've never had
a >head gasket go out on any car before and have only heard stories
about them >failing shortly after an engine rebuild. Has anything like
this happened to >someone else's car that's been trouble free for so
long? If anybody has an >explanation as to the cause of such a failure,
I'd appreciate it.

My step father's 86 Custom Cruiser with engine code "Y" 307 has had 3
water pumps and 2 radiators.  The latest we got was a 3 row core.  We
almost nuked our engine too when the first radiator let go.  The fins
went to pot.  This was at about 100,000 miles.  I'd drop a radiator in
your wagon.

I recall something about some engine gaskets having to be replaced
recently. It could have been head gaskets, but I think it was valve
cover gaskets.

>because the thing is absolutely gutless. Our 78 had a 403 and it was no
 >street racer but at least it could get out of its own way.

Drop in a Olds 350 with a quadrajet.

Roger Borlase
'72 cutlass cruiser (350 2bbl)

- ------------------------------

From: <wolskmj@texaco.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:30:13 -0400
Subject: (Clarification of previous posting - Victor Intake)

- -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS. - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------




(Clarification of previous posting)

New, Edelbrock "Victor Olds" Alum. Intake Manifold for sale - $75

Fits Olds motors using batten heads, p/n 22505143 (steel) or
#22505805 (aluminum).

Manifold is cast for taller, big-blocks, but also fits small-blocks
by using adapter plates available from C.J. Batten.

Single plane design, best at higher RPMs.  Holley flange.

Brand new. Never used. $220 new. Sacrifice $75 + shipping & COD
- - --

                                      Regards,

                                              Michael J. Wolski

                                              ISSC UNIX Support
                                              Texaco Acct @ THP

                                            Internal: wolskmj@thp

                                     Internet: wolskmj@texaco.com
                                    Alternate: wolskmj@cyberspace.org
                            Email to my pager: 1974511@skymail.com
      `Outside of a dog, computers are a man's best
       friend; inside a dog, it's too dark to type.'

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:32:13 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 11:31 AM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 05:41 AM 11/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>[snip]
>>1. At the time of WWII, army combat tanks had a mean time between
failure >[snip] >Don't know much about history... >>2. When did Olds
first use an engine with over head valves, in their regular
>>production? >Don't know much about (valvetrain) geometry... >>3. What
was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car production, even
>>though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why didn't they use
this >>early V8 for their auto production?  What year did they finally
get around >>to using one? > >I was going to say Chevy, but they put
their early V-8 in their cars. Was it >Pontiac[Oakland], who used a
version of a V-8 in a truck? > >----------- >- Bob Barry >- 1969 Std.
Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys) >- 1978
Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!) > > > > Good
guesses all. Chevrolet had a V8 in 1917-1918, Pontiac in 1932, Oakland
discontinued production in 1931, in favor of the Pontiac, and had a V8
in their cars at before they ended.  Also the clue in the question about
building a V8 during WWI would automatically eliminate Pontiac that
didn't begin life until they began producing their 1927 models late in
1926.

Keep trying.

Cliff Feiler
1984 Olds Delta 88 w/455 power
1979 Olds Delta 88 w/diesel power
1931 Olds Patrician Sedan w/flat head power
1931 Oldes 4-door w/the same type engine as the Patrician

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:35:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Olds List Member Registry Update

At 01:53 PM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I've submitted my information on the form four times and haven't made
it into the Registry yet??? > >Robert Whitaker >69 H/O 455 > >----------
>From:  Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca] >Sent:  Saturday,
November 09, 1996 2:55 PM >To:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca >Subject:  Re:
Olds List Member Registry Update > >On Fri, 8 Nov 1996
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote: >>
http://www.student.toplinks.com/hp/rovernut/list/main.html >> >> >From
there, there is a link to both the addition form, and also the >>
Registry itself.  Hey! Now you only have one site name to remember for
it! > >Yep, that was a problem before. I could never get to the thing,
but this >address works fine now. > >> Also, we've only got 42 out of
200'n something members who've filled out >> the form!  The Toro-List
has got probably 85 to 90 percent of their >> members in their
Registry!  We're falling far behind y'all!  I'd think >> that
particularly some of the more active people on the list would've >>
filled it out.  I've gotten nothing from you Bryce or Greg B.  Come on
>> now, this thing only takes about a minute or two to fill out! >
>Geez, now I know what it feels like to be singled out! And anyhow,
>don't try to compare us to the Toro guys... after all, Tom Cochrane and
 >Red Rider did a song about them a few years back called "Lunatic
Fringe", >didn't he? ;-) > >OK, just kidding... really, guys, really! >
>I finally filled it out. Feedback you want, feedback you're gonna get;
>after all, I'm apparently the only person on the face of the earth who
>(a) not only doesn't like the user interface of Win95, but (b) has all
>kinds of problems every day with using it. So I guess I'm sensitive to
such >issues. I'll drop you a private note on the subject. > >Thanks,
Clay! > >Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova
Scotia, Canada > > > > > >Attachment Converted:
C:\WINSOCK\EUDORA\REOldsLi


I went back to Windows 3.1; and put my network up on Novel.
I really prefer dos.

Cliff Feiler
Of the Lunatic Fringe

- ------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:01:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day

>I spoke to someone with a '92 Custom Cruiser.  He managed to find one
from: > >Addco Industries, Inc. >715 13th St. >Lake Park, Florida 33403
>800-338-7015 or 407-842-6102 or 561-842-6102 > >The list price is
about $159.00, but this person ordered his bar from RD >Enterprises
(619-282-8550) for about $120.00.  Part number 943 should fit >all
wagons from 1977-96.  Apparently, this stabilizer doesn't attach to >the
rear control arms in the same fashion as the stock ones.  He has also
>installed Koni adjustables, and is very pleased with the improved
handling.

Do these people have a bar for '72 Cutlass and Vista Cruisers?  I know
that Greg wants one, and should probably put one on my wagon too.

roger borlase
'72 cutlass cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

- ------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:02:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Visionary '98 442 sketches ready

>A while back there was talk of drawing up some sketches for a new 442
based >on the F-body platform.  Well, I did a little pencil pushing and
came up >with some, and thanks to Charley Buehner, they are ready for
download.


     < < < S N I P > > >

I've got them up and running on my page now.  I have no links to them
yet, but you can find them directly at
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/442proto.htm

It's a little slow loading, and I'm not sure how well it fits on the
screen (Cuz mine is "you-know-what"-up and I'm using a small monochrome
loaner :()
     At some point in time, I'll make a ~real~ dedicated page to the
subject, so if anyone has more sketches (.jpg's, .gif's, or .bmp's) feel
free to send 'em over, and I'll find a spot for them.  When we fill up
the hard drive, I'll send them to Car Craft with the project Olds Craft
stuff! (Here's the catch, we ~need~ to have a running prototype by
then!!!  (OK, maybe not, ....)
     Here's what (I think) we've come up with so far:  F-Body platform,
Aurora powerplant (supercharged, of course) ram-air, T-Tops/Convert. or
~both~ would be really cool!  Rear Wheel Drive (if the F-Body didn't
give that away)  Six speed tranny?  Or maybe something using Lightning
Rods again???
     Zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds
     Standing 1/4 mile:  6.7 sec
                         --135 mph
     100 to zero:  35 feet
     Skidpad:  6 foot diam@1.20 g
     Economy:  38/42 city/hwy

          ---Hey, whattya mean I'm dreaming???  OK, just don't try to
wake me up, please, I'm enjoying it!!!  Well, I guess we can deviate
from those specs a little!!!    :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

- ------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:38:57 -0400
Subject: Wagon Rear Sway Bar (Was: Re: Watta_day)

On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Roger M. Borlase wrote:

> >I spoke to someone with a '92 Custom Cruiser.  He managed to find one
from: > > > >Addco Industries, Inc. > >715 13th St. > >Lake Park,
Florida 33403 > >800-338-7015 or 407-842-6102 or 561-842-6102 > > Do
these people have a bar for '72 Cutlass and Vista Cruisers?  I know that
 > Greg wants one, and should probably put one on my wagon too.

I'd be willing to bet they do. They have been in business since the late
 60's/early 70's and made rear bars for almost everything produced.
Someone ought to give them a call and post the results here.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- ------------------------------

From: kiss74@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:55:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum

Why are you giving me shit is it because you dont have anything better
to do?
I see people post extremely stupid responses, and I dont say a God Damn
thing about it! Who do you think you are? You are an unoriginal fucker.
I already heard "Ah... Ya gotta love this guy."
So enough already. Jerks! Shut up and drive you 66 "toro". Mikey

- ------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:07:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day (almost)

Not to minimize Dal's problems but I had an interesting experience
today, and I'm not sure what the fix is. I decided to replace the
heater core on my '64 convertible since it had stopped putting out heat
last week. I suspected a plugged core since the input hose was hot and
the output cool.

Never replaced one of these before, and everyone I talked to about it
kind of made a face and offered me sympathy. When I read the service
manual I understood why... you have to remove the battery, battery tray
and inner fender to get at the nuts that hold the heater case. I
figured, what the heck, I should detail that area anyway, so let's have
at it!

After removing the 6(!) bolts that held the battery tray in place I
found myself wishing for an air wrench. Another dozen or so and the
inner fender was loosened. This thing is steel and weighs a bit, and I
could not figure out how to possibly get it out until a brainstorm hit.
If you jack up the front wheel about 6" there is enough clearance to
slide it out *over* the wheel, rather than try and take it out thru the
engine compartment the way the manual says, and that's what worked. I
was lucky too... no frozen bolts or snapped clips, and no hidden rust
revealed - everything looked very solid actually, those cars are really
built! Anyway, that whole disassembly process took a few hours and I
was *really* wishing for an air wrench by then.

While I was taking a break I let the radiator drain, then detached the
heater hoses. I realized that the previous work was all to let you get
at precisely *one* nut on the heater case... I don't think much of the
guy who designed the thing. What a shortsighted design! Then I tackled
the underdash bits and was able to disconnect everything with no
problem. A little wrestling with it and voila, the heater case was in my
lap. Didn't even spill a drop of coolant on the carpeting.

The old core came out with a couple of screws, and after draining the
leftover antifreeze from it I tried a simple blow-thru test. It was very
 restricted, and I suspect my diagnosis was correct. Feeling good about
 myself, I retrieve the replacement core, go to fit it in the case and
- I don't believe it - it doesn't fit!! The new one is about 2" shorter
 and 1/2" narrower than the old one, and cannot possibly fit. After
cursing out my parts guy, I put everything aside - after about 4 hours I
 was getting pretty tired of the whole thing - and went inside to check
 part #s and catalogs.

Here is the strange part. The Year One catalog lists the exact same
replacement core I bought locally, with the exact same dimensions, right
down to the same number on the box as is in their catalog. BTW, I paid
about half their price and got the thing the same day from my local
parts guy, so a word to the wise.  Anyway, they listed no core like the
one I had for a '64, just the one I had bought. I got out my GM parts
catalog, and still no luck. I have a heater case and core that seems to
not exist anywhere.

The one thing that strikes me is that since the car is a convertible,
maybe they fitted a bigger heater to it, but that still wouldn't explain
 why its not in the catalog. Come next week I suspect I'll be spending
lots of time at parts counters or even radiator shops to try and get the
 right core, and then I'll have the fun job of putting it all back
together, hoping I have heat without any leaks. I'll keep you posted.
Right now, my back just hurts... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

- ------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:34:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Watta_day (almost)

>Right now, my back just hurts... :)

My heart is still bleeding from Saturday...

roger

- ------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:06:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Visionary '98 442 sketches ready

At 06:02 PM 11/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>A while back there was talk of drawing up some sketches for a new 442
based >>on the F-body platform.  Well, I did a little pencil pushing and
came up >>with some, and thanks to Charley Buehner, they are ready for
download. > > >     < < < S N I P > > > > >I've got them up and running
on my page now.  I have no links to them yet, >but you can find them
directly at >http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner/442proto.htm > >It's a
little slow loading, and I'm not sure how well it fits on the screen
>(Cuz mine is "you-know-what"-up and I'm using a small monochrome loaner
:() >     At some point in time, I'll make a ~real~ dedicated page to
the >subject, so if anyone has more sketches (.jpg's, .gif's, or .bmp's)
feel >free to send 'em over, and I'll find a spot for them.  When we
fill up the >hard drive, I'll send them to Car Craft with the project
Olds Craft stuff! >(Here's the catch, we ~need~ to have a running
prototype by then!!!  (OK, >maybe not, ....) >     Here's what (I think)
we've come up with so far:  F-Body platform, >Aurora powerplant
(supercharged, of course) ram-air, T-Tops/Convert. or >~both~ would be
really cool!  Rear Wheel Drive (if the F-Body didn't give >that away)
Six speed tranny?  Or maybe something using Lightning Rods >again??? >
Zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds >     Standing 1/4 mile:  6.7 sec >
--135 mph >     100 to zero:  35 feet >     Skidpad:  6 foot diam@1.20 g >
Economy:  38/42 city/hwy > >          ---Hey, whattya
mean I'm dreaming???  OK, just don't try to wake >me up, please, I'm
enjoying it!!!  Well, I guess we can deviate from those >specs a
little!!!    :) > >      Charley Buehner       |
"buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" >      500 4th Ave.          |
"charley@rocketship.com" >      Box 1255              | Montana State
University-Northern >      Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner >      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds
Cutlass 425 >      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455 >
(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!) > > > > Ever drive an L88 or LT1?

Maybe subreal would apply.

And they are GM.

Anon.

- ------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:35:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Museum

kiss74@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> Why are you giving me s**t is it because you dont have anything better
> to do?

Sorry.  Haven't any idea what you've gotten off on but you should be
buying higher quality stuff.

> I see people post extremely stupid responses...

This being one.

> ... and I dont say a G** D*** thing about it!

I notify the Pope to start the sainthood proceedings.

> Who do you think you are?

A 47 year old long hair hippy grandfather from Tampa with a diamond
earing worth more than your car.   :)

> You are an unoriginal f***er.

And forwarding your post for the Nobel Prize in Literature.

> I already heard "Ah... Ya gotta love this guy."

Well, you only had to read it once.  Were the big words a problem?

> So enough already.

Agreed.

> Jerks! Shut up and drive you 66 "toro". Mikey

Have a nice life.

The 66 Toro and Mike

Psssst:  We don't REALY love you.


- - --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

- ------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:46:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Chevy vs Olds

In a message dated 96-11-08 22:48:51 EST, you write:

> I know that the (80's RWD)US Cutlases had 307's for the most part, and
>  Monte Carlos had 305's, but what about the Regals and Grand Prixs?
Just >  curious!

In '81, Regals, Centurys, Grand Prixs and LeMans(s) had an optional 265
produced by Pontiac.  Monte Carlos and Malibus had an optional 267
produced by Chevrolet and GM of Canada in the 49 states and an optional
305 in California only, also produced by Chevrolet and GM of Canada.  We
should all know that Cutlasses had two optional V8s, the 260 and the
307.

Paul

- ------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:46:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

In a message dated 96-11-09 13:38:53 EST, you write:

>  I couldn't find out an exact year...I couldn't get inside the car
>  or open a door, it had been turned up on it's side to rob front
suspension >  parts so I couldn't get at the door jamb or glovebox(old
registration)
 The
>  fan shroud had 1978 stamped on it, no emmisions stickers were
surviving. >  V-6 engine under the hood and the car was puke green.

Uhh, I think that would be 1979.  Lt. Puke Green and Dk. Puke Green were
pretty popular colors that year.  I had a '79 Delta that was the darker
shade with a "Pastel" green vinyl top.  Interior was, you guessed it,
green... with RED floor mats!

Paul

- ------------------------------

From: "Joe, Paula & Gang" <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:56:31 -0400
Subject: HEI system:

Question for you guys/gals out there:

I have been having some difficulty starting my car the last little
while.  Its an 82 Delta 88.  I tuned the car up over the summer, new
plugs, wires, cap and rotor.  I also rebuilt the carb.

The problem seems to occur after the car has been sitting for a period
of time, for example I was gone last month for the whole month and when
I returned I had a heck of a time getting the car going.  Again last
week, I was gone, took the car with me but it sat idle during the week.
I was concerned that it wouldn't start Friday so I started looking at it
around lunch time.  NO GO.  I tried again with the help of a few people
that are on the same course as me (mechanics) and still no go.  We had
fuel, spark (not crisp blue) and the choke was operating correctly.
Still no go.  I managed to run the battery down so we tried jump
starting it, no go.  After becoming frustrated I gave up and my trip
home would have to wait until Saturday morning.

We looked at it again in the morning, checked the gap on the plugs.
They were .080 just like the sticker on the fan shroud.  My mechanic
buddy took a double take and suggested we try closing up the gap.  We
did, to .040.  Started up on the first crank.

So I guess my coil is not as efficient as it's supposed to be, right?
My question is, what will happen if I leave the gap at .040 for the time
being?  I'm using the car only on the highway, about 300Kms one way,
twice a week for the next month.  Can I just leave the gap as is or will
it affect performance in any way.  I did notice coming back saturday
that my gas mileage was suffering but not sure if the gap had anything
to do with it as I was in a hurry and had it pretty well matted all the
time.

If you think you can help, drop me a line by direct E-mail to
jkmccall@qbc.clic.net.  I'm on the digest and not knowing when the next
one will be in I don't want to miss any suggestions before I leave again
in the morning.

Thanks in advance.


JK McCall

- ------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:17:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraquibu spotted in junkyard

I wouldn't mind having one of these whole cars, just for its historical
signifigance or whatever-- or to show non-believers that hey, they
actually did make them!  I'd have to get a color other than puke green
though-- didn't somebody say something about beige?  What was it with
those GAWDAWFUL colors all through the 70's anyway?  I've got a '72
Mercury that is TRUE sh*t brown.  Did people actually like these colors,
 or were there no choices?  The only car I picked a color on in the
70's was a '79 I.H. Scout-- I picked the BRIGHT orange one.

One other thing, would the clutch linkage etc. work in my '81 Cutlass?
It seems that it would.  If so, where would I be most likely to find
one e.g. what part of the country, and how much do they normally cost,
and also, what 4/5 spds will bolt up to a Rocket 350? 'S'all for now,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling, Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu '84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k
miles) '81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car} '80
Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles) '72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429
4bbl. 110k miles)

On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-09 13:38:53 EST, you write:
>
> >  I couldn't find out an exact year...I couldn't get inside the car
> >  or open a door, it had been turned up on it's side to rob front
suspension > >  parts so I couldn't get at the door jamb or glovebox(old
registration) >  The > >  fan shroud had 1978 stamped on it, no
emmisions stickers were surviving. > >  V-6 engine under the hood and
the car was puke green. > > Uhh, I think that would be 1979.  Lt.
Puke Green and Dk. Puke Green were > pretty popular colors that year.  I
had a '79 Delta that was the darker shade > with a "Pastel" green vinyl
top.  Interior was, you guessed it, green... with > RED floor mats! > >
Paul > >

- ------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:43:37 -0400
Subject: Muscle Car of the Week

Hello Fellow Olds'fanatics,

There is a page on the internet called the Muscle Car of the Week page,
which every week, posts pictures of 3 different 60's 70's muscle cars.
They are having a problem, lately the Mopar mailing list has been
sending in many pictures of old Mopars, and they have also been voting
exclusively for the Mopars.  I've yet to see any Olds pictures on there,
 and lately only the Moaprs have been winning.  Perhaps we can do
something about this!

If you have a cool picture of your (traditional muscle car era) muscle
car already scanned, send it to:

Michael Lang <choad@nji.com>

I'm sure that he'll appreciate it.
The page itself is at:

http://www.nji.com/~choad/mcotw/mcotw.html

Just thought that you all might be interested.

Also, I've been offered by somebody to trade my '72 Mercury for a set of
 2 '49 Pontiac 2drs.  I don't know much about the 40's GM cars.  I'm
not sure what motors they have, I think that they are both 8's whether
straight or "V" 8's I don't know.  What can you tell me aout these
cars.  I don't know if either run or not, but he has told me that the
rust is not very bad, and all of the windows are there.  The Mercury is
not a daily driver, so this would just be a case of a project car
replacing another project car.  Is this a good deal?  I know you can't
tell me much until I've looked at the cars, but what's your opinion--
should I jump at this quick?  He just wants the Mercury for its motor,
the body is all to h*ll.

Thanks,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

- ------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:51:54 -0400
Subject: sorry

Uhhh, sorry,
somehow in that last message, I included part of another message (even
after deleting it) I'm still trying to figure that'n out--love those
computers!

Clayton Pierce

- ------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:55:31 -0400
Subject: must need new glasses

I must need new glasses, I was reading the wrong message when I sent
that message about being sorry for including part of another message.
Ooops! How embarassing!  I'm currently turning this bright shade of
pink/red and staring suspitiously at anybody close by in the computer
lab.  At any rate, the problem is fixed (and it wasn't my computer)!

Clayton (oops!) Pierce

- ------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 16:42:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Muscle Car of the Week

> The page itself is at:
>
> http://www.nji.com/~choad/mcotw/mcotw.html

That URL doesn't work.  Did it work for anybody else?

- - -DaN

- ------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 16:44:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Stuff for sale

> A-pillar stainless trim for '68 convertible.  Both sides, excellent
shape.

I assume you mean the a-pillar moldings on the outside of the car,
right?  Ok, how much?

>
> Header trim for '68 convertible.  Rusty, needs repainting.

Not sure what this piece is.  Can you tell me and of course, how much?

- - -Dan

- ------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Muscle Car of the Week

Oops Again, my bad,
This is just not my day!
try using "mcotw.htm" instead of html.  I just got there fine.

On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Dan Williams wrote:

> > The page itself is at:
> >
> > http://www.nji.com/~choad/mcotw/mcotw.html
>
> That URL doesn't work.  Did it work for anybody else?
>
> -DaN
>
>

- ------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:55:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

In a message dated 96-11-06 13:03:35 EST, you write:

<< >I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
 >on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
 >booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
 >the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
 >diesel trains, etc.

 I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
 locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
 to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.
>>

It is LaGrange.......  At least that's the address our company uses when
it sends tools to them.

Chris Ruper.

- ------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:55:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

In a message dated 96-11-06 18:01:38 EST, you write:

<< I guess I don't have the problems of having to store my car.  I live
in So.
 California.  So I get to drive my car all of the time ;-)

 Chris Sparks
  >>

Hey!  That's enough of this outta you, or us people "up north" are gonna
see you for a "nice visit".    :-)

Chris Ruper.

- ------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:55:34 -0400
Subject: Real Big Block Engines.........

In a message dated 96-11-06 17:42:03 EST, you write:

<< Technically the plant is in McCook.  I grew up a few miles from the
 facility, and even got to take the tour a few years ago when they
 had their open house.  Pretty cool looking at diesel engines the size
of
 some cars...  Now there's some power!  :-)

 -Jeff
 jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com >>

Yep, those engines are pretty cool, I provide tools for similar engines
for GE that are contracted out to be made at our facility.  We
manufacture V16's for them (at least until they get their new machines
installed), and they have bores for the cylinder sleeves which are about
11.5 inches in diameter. (other interesting things are 10.75 inch crank
journal dia., and a 5.5 inch cam journal dia.).  These things weigh in
at anywhere from 12-15,000 lbs. (GE blocks) to 23,000 lbs. (Caterpillar
makes a similar block style).

It's interesting stuff, that's for sure.

Chris Ruper.

- ------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:55:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Need tips, info on short term storage

In a message dated 96-11-06 17:47:52 EST, you write:

<< This sounds like an extension of the battery-on-a-concrete-floor
issue:
 whether it makes a difference if you put a block of wood underneath.
 The foil might act as a moisture barrier under the footprint of the
tire,
 though if you're just storing through the winter I don't know if it
would
 make that much difference. Better you should just get the tires off the
 ground with some jackstands under the suspension (that way you also
guard
 against tire damage if one of them goes flat over the winter).
  >>

The reason for putting the wood under the tire is to prevent dry rot of
the tire.

Chris Ruper.

- ------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:03:19 -0400
Subject: Re: G.M. Trivia

At 02:32 PM 11/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>>3. What was the last G.M. car division to use a V8 for car
production, even >>>though they did build a V8 in the WWI period?  Why
didn't they use this >>>early V8 for their auto production?  What year
did they finally get around >>>to using one? >> >>I was going to say
Chevy, but they put their early V-8 in their cars. Was it
>>Pontiac[Oakland], who used a version of a V-8 in a truck? >> >Good
guesses all. Chevrolet had a V8 in 1917-1918, Pontiac in 1932, Oakland
>discontinued production in 1931, in favor of the Pontiac, and had a V8
in >their cars at before they ended.  Also the clue in the question
about >building a V8 during WWI would automatically eliminate Pontiac
that didn't >begin life until they began producing their 1927 models
late in 1926.

OK, I thought there might be a trick answer with that Pontiac (I did
know that there was no Pontiac in WWI, and that Oakland had one at that
time, and since Oakland kinda evolved into Pontiac I thought...); It'd
be Buick, then, who didn't produce a V-8 in a passenger car until 1954.

Was the Buick V-8 for aircraft use?

- - -----------
- - - Bob Barry
- - - 1969 Std. Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys) - - - 1978 Electra Limited Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

- ------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #360
********************************


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------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 06:28:45 -0400
Subject: Computer Error Codes

     Well, I finally got around to typing up the computer error codes
for
     my '84 H/O.  I typed up a quick list of codes and probable causes
to
     put in the glove box.  Print out, shrink on photocopier to 50% so
it's
     1/4 size of a piece of paper and do some quickie laminating with
some
     clear packing tape, add a paper clip, and ta-da, glovebox sized
     computer diagnostic kit.  I think this is something that all owners
of
     a car with the CCC system should keep in their glove box.  These
codes
     should work for all computer controlled V8's, and some fuel
injected
     codes are in the chart too.

     If anyone is interested in a copy of the file, to print for
themselves
     or post on a web page somewhere, let me know.  It's in WordPerfect
6.1
     format but I can also save it to PDF format if necessary.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

------------------------------

From: Steven Larry Cannon <slcannon@uncc.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:45:08 -0400
Subject: olds vs. chevy

Hey guys,

	I'm with you 100% against Chevy bashing.  I happen to own both.  I've
got a '70 Nova, '78 Impala (not a taxi!, two door), and a '86 442.  I
like them all.  In response to what someone said the other day about
307's lasting longer than 305's I do not agree.  The 305 in my Impala
went a little over 210,000 miles before needing a rebuild.  No major
repairs before that either.  I just got my 442 and love it. I agree with
Jason on this.

Steve Cannon,

P.S.  Did you Jason's Camaro in Chevy High Performance (it looked
great).

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:50:34 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Heresy?

>>> 5,000+ miles oil changes with non-diesel approved oil.  Ouch!
300,000 >>> mile Olds diesels I know about received severe duty
maintenence - pretty >>> much needed to make any motor last 200,000+.  I
bet the Mercedes cost a >>> bit more than the Olds. >> >>My neighbour's
"dealer serviced" '79 300SD used to *SPEW* blue smoke at >>130,000 miles
- long after the turbo died.  This was shortly before they >>got rid of
it due to severe rust.  For the price of that car, they >>could've had
about 3 Olds diesels.  The Mercedes diesel may indeed be >>more durable
than the Olds equivalent, however, what about Mercedes gas >>engines? >>
>>Kevin Wong <snip> > >I don't believe any propaganda from any source
that would relate any story >that the Olds diesels were anything but a
disaster, which was very >unfortunate.  As I for one would still be
driving one if they were as >serviceable as their gasoline cars. >
>Cliff Feiler >1984 Delta 88 w/455 >1979 Delta 88 w/diesel >1931
Patrician Sedan >1931 4-door sedan


Documented and personal experiences = propaganda.  Be careful out there.

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:25:41 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

At 02:45 PM 11/12/96 -0400, Steven Larry Cannon wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>	I'm with you 100% against Chevy bashing.  I happen to own both.  I've
got a '70 Nova, '78 Impala (not a taxi!, two door), and a '86 442.  I
like them all.  In response to what someone said the other day about
307's lasting longer than 305's I do not agree.  The 305 in my Impala
went a little over 210,000 miles before needing a rebuild.  No major
repairs before that either.  I just got my 442 and love it. I agree with
Jason on this. > Nice to know there are others out there that respect
Chevy, you don't have to like them...just respect a fellow family
member.  Both the 307 and 305 are great engines and can last a long
time. The life of an engine is usually up to the owner, take care of it
and change all the necessary stuff when it needs it.

>Steve Cannon,
>
>P.S.  Did you Jason's Camaro in Chevy High Performance (it looked
great).

Thanks, it may look great but I won't have it too much longer. I am
looking to buy a 93-97 Z/28 in the next few weeks. - - - - - - - - - - -
- Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports
Administration graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro
Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80
Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Daniel Houlton <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:35:55 -0400
Subject: Convert solid roof to T-top???

I've got another question for you all.  I've mentioned before I have
an '85 Salon that I'm getting ready to re-build.  It's a Michigan car
so the doors, trunk floor, etc are rusted out, and the frame is bent
on the left side behind the rear wheel from being rear ended.

Now I like this car because the interior is good and it has T-tops,
but the frame is bad, it's rusted, and it's got the 200C tranny.  I'm
in Arizona now and I've been kinda looking for another, rust-free car
(maybe a 442 or H/O) with T-tops.  I figure between the two of them,
I should be able to come up with a pretty nice looking car.  I let
the chance go about a month ago for getting an excellent '83 H/O
restoration project because it didn't have T-tops.  It had everything
else I wanted (200-R4, posi, lightning rods, scoop, spoiler), but no
tops...

Is there any way of converting a solid-roof car to the T-top variety?
I've got my current car for all the parts.  Is the T-top variety
just the same as the solid except for a couple holes and trim plates,
brackets, etc that could be taken off and put on another car after
cutting the same size holes in the roof???

My guess is that it's not and that it's totally different.  Is it
possible then to graft the entire roof from a T-top car to another
car or will this be ridiculously expensive???

I'm still kicking myself for not getting it, but the T-tops are
a must for me.  I'm just asking in case I ever find another one.



- --Dan

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:38:34 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 68 442 W-30


Did the W-30 option on 68 442's only apply to 455 engines?

          The 68 (in fact, all 66-69) W-30 was based on the 400
          engine.  The 66-67 used the short stroke motor, while the
          68-69 used the long stroke motor.  Keep in mind that until
          1970, there was a GM corporate ban on engines over 400 cubic
          inches in the mid-size (A-body) cars.  Olds got around this
          by having Hurst install the 455 in the 68-69 H/O (although
          there seems to be a body of evidence indicating that the
          H/Os actually came from the Olds factory with the 455
          already installed and Hurst just did the other mods).

It would seem that if this were the case, then upgrading my 400 engine
to W-30 would seem rather moot.

          If your intent is to build a W-30 replica out of your 68,
          the 400 is the right way to start.  You will need the
          hard-to-get (read: expensive) "D" heads, the correct cam,
          the correctly-numbered and calibrated Q-jet and distributor,
          and, of course, the air cleaner, ducting, and under the
          bumper scoops.  And the red inner fenderwells.

          Some of this hardware is available repro.  The red inner
          fenders, the scoops, and the ducting.  Brothers Automotive
          claims to be able to supply any number carb (I'm guessing
          they just restamp whatever casting they can get - anyone
          have other info?).  Repro muscle car cams are also
          available.  The heads and the air cleaner will be the
          toughest.  The dual-snorkel unit on the W-30 is not like the
          more common GTO units; both snorkles have parallel sides
          (not tapered) and vacuum motors in each.

          Is your goal to build an actual W-30 clone, or just a
          look-alike?  I doubt all but the most knowledgeable W-30
          aficionado would be able to distinguish between the correct
          carb or distributor and the wrong one.  In fact, most people
          wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 400 and a
          455 (members of this list not included!).  Unless you really
          have to have the stock displacement, I'd go with more cubic
          inches every time.  My 66, for example, is definitely slated
          for a 455 short block - although I'll use the correct heads
          and the correct 3X2 bbl manifold.

          Like I said before, so long as you're not trying to take
          advantage of someone dishonestly, build it the way you want
          to.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30




------------------------------

From: "Mr. Ada aka Chris Sparks" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:49:11 -0400
Subject: Re: olds vs. chevy

Hey all,

Does anyone know why the Olds Cutlass was called gutless.  Just want
to know.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:49:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Convert solid roof to T-top???

>Is there any way of converting a solid-roof car to the T-top variety?
>I've got my current car for all the parts.  Is the T-top variety
>just the same as the solid except for a couple holes and trim plates,
>brackets, etc that could be taken off and put on another car after
>cutting the same size holes in the roof???
>
>My guess is that it's not and that it's totally different.

You're right, it's a complete separate pressing for the roof. Well,
a bunch of completely separate pieces, including a fat box channel
up the middle for some measure of rigidity (not a lot). If you can
find an illustrated parts manual there's an exploded diagram of the
whole T-top assembly in there -- I got a peek at a copy at the dealer's
many years ago.

>Is it
>possible then to graft the entire roof from a T-top car to another
>car or will this be ridiculously expensive???

Well, I guess all things are possible. I think we concluded here the
last time this subject came up that T-top cars have no additional
underbody bracing (a la convertibles), but we sort of wish they did.
Some reports of leaking, and seam separations in the trunk on mine.

>I'm still kicking myself for not getting it, but the T-tops are
>a must for me.  I'm just asking in case I ever find another one.

Y'know, there hasn't been so much time gone by that your only choice
would be to build one. Unless you're up to doing the job yourself,
I think it would be cheaper to keep looking until you find one you
like...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #364
********************************
 
