To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/06/96 02:36:23 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #355


oldsmobile-digest        Wednesday, 6 November 1996     Volume 01 :
Number 355


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:13:50 -0400
Subject: Rights vs Obligations

>>>>A person or persons spend a princely sum to live in a nice and VERY
residential neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on blocks in
 his front lawn?  (It happens)

Do community standards always take a back seat to individual rights?

The 66 Toro and Mike<<<

Mike:

When we decided to move to sunny FL and were investigating a place to
live, Cheryl and I observed that, around here at least, homes in an
"uncontrolled" neighborhood just a few years old looked terrible.  This
is due to lack of maintenance and, frequently, inoperative old cars and
trucks.

Although I swore I would never live in a homeowner association
controlled neighborhood because of all the politics, that's exactly what
we did.  To protect the biggest investment we have. The difference I
believe is that we chose to live under these restrictions.  And guess
who headed the Covenants Committee for two years and is now Association
President? Moi.  Couldn't be because if I bring home a jewel, they ain't
got nobody to complain too would it?  Nah, well at least not yet. :-)

In FL, homeowners associations are very powerful.  As described to me by
an attorney they are like a small municipality able to pass rules and
collect taxes in the form of dues. But, it takes 80% of the community to
change these rules, so not very likely.  While we don't like all of
them, we knew what we were getting into when we signed at closing.
There's a difference versus some elected official telling me what is
good for me and using my tax money to force it down my throat.

The steady erosion of personal rights by _government_ is very troubling
to me.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:33:40 -0400
Subject: Re: tic-toc-tac

>> The right hole gets the clock/tach (clock listed first because it is
the >> most legible of the two). > >This seems to me to be on the ugly
side.  A clock would typically have two >hands (maybe a second hand) and
the tach would have a needle too.  Too many >moving parts! > >Is the
needle to small on the tach to read??  Its a shame they just didn't have
a >tach w/o the clock.

     Actually, I've never had much of a problem seeing mine.  I love it!
I just wish the clock would keep working (no wd40 tricks, I know 'em.
The contacts are shot, and I haven't gotten around to ~completely~
overhauling it...)  The clock still has the three hands, and the tach
has a large sweep of a 1/2 inch hand that runs around the clock.  It's
fairly simple, and is just as ugly as the '66 Toro (remember those
flames???)  I ~really~ like em both, thank you very much... :)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:37:01 -0400
Subject: 70-72 front fenders

>>Subject: RE: '71 Cutlass Fenders

I was told by my local Olds dealer that you couldn't get 70-72 front
fenders. (from GM at least). I was/am also looking for a front left
(drivers side) fender. Found a guy that had 3 right ones. (he was kinda
strange and not to interested in selling however)

Mitch Delk
Huntsville Alabama
'71 Cutlass "S"<<

As of two weeks ago the Olds parts mgr here said they were still
available. I'll check tomorrow as I need something from him anyway.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:37:11 -0400
Subject: rear end (yours, not hers!)

>>>Subject: RE: 66 Rear

OK Bob, I have a question...

I have a '71 Cutlass with a 10 bolt 2.56 peg leg. My plan was/is to find
a fully assembled A body posi unit with high 2.?? to low 3.?? and hope
it holds up.

Would I be better off buying an Auburn or ??? (aftermarket) carrier and
ring set and having it built up? In essence, just use my
housing/axles/breaks and have a new gear unit installed?

My car will have a 260ish horse 350 4bbl and a TH350.
I see a lower gear as being the best way to get a quicker car and If I
don't go over 3.08, I could still cruise the highway and it wouldn't be
too awful hard on the whole drive train.

Mitch Delk<<<

Mitch:

I'm a little behind on reading the list digests.  I suspect some other
advice has been offered but here's my $.02 worth.

I suspect strongly that you have the type "O" rear, 10 bolt cover and
ring gear unless it was built in Canada and has a "C".  Could be the
"corporate" rear by then as well.  Whichever it is, it would probably be
a bunch cheaper in the long run to find the rear already the way you
want it.  I'm not sure Auburn makes a diff. unit for the "O" and
corporate rears.  I don't know.
 Gears are available for most everything. But buying and installing a
bunch of parts can get expensive - fast. Here in FL you can get a
complete drum to drum non-posi rear for ~$100.  Posi's are harder to
find and maybe ~$300 for something not real popular like the "C" 3.73
posi.  The "C" rears command maybe double that.

The 3.08 should work out well.  That's what I use for long hauls with
the '67 and I have gotten ~20 mpg with a tuned Q-Jet and (trying) to
keep my foot out of it.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:37:26 -0400
Subject: Air Lift bags in the rear suspension

>>I have a question for thoes folks who have airbags in the rear springs
of their cars.  I was wondering if they improve handleing by stiffening
up the suspension.  <<

Yup, Greg.  They also do exactly that.  In fact by adjusting the air
pressure you get the ride quality you want without drastic changes in
ride height like air shocks.  Which suck as "shocks" in the first place.

>>>>I'm thinking of getting a rear anti-sway bar for my `72
Vista-Cruiser.  I was wondering if boxed lower control arms were
neccesary with the sway bar.<<<

I would certainly advise them for the long run.  But....., since all
lower control arms of the era where punched for the bolts you can
install one. But...., you can't just bolt it up or you will collapse the
relatively thin steel they are stamped from.  The boxed arms actually
also include loops which extend up over the holes to allow tightening
without collapse.  On two occaisions I have bought some cheap electrical
steel conduit pipe and cut two pieces for each side to fit inside the
control arm. Thread the bolts through the pieces of pipe inside the
arms.  They prevent collapse very nicely. While I am sure the fully
boxed arms are better I can tell no seat of the pants difference.  And
using what you got costs nada.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:37:19 -0400
Subject: Toro pan in a '68 442

Hi Bob:

A Toro pan will fit in your '68 and is a cheap way to increase your oil
capacity. It will hang an inch or so below your frame so it is a little
more exposed to danger.  If you have headers they will usually be
sacrificed to the pavenment/parking stop gods first.

If it were my engine I would buy a new pump.  The key thing to remember
is that the Toro pan is deeper so you _need_ a Toro pickup.  The Toro
oiling system also includes a crank scraper on the side of the pan, a
baffle/crank scraper above the oil pump and a skimmer for the timing
chain.  All this keeps the oil where it belongs and even adds a few hp
by making everything lighter (since it isn't slinging oil around).  You
need the whole setup which includes all these goodies and the main
bearing cap bolts with the studs incorporated so it can all be put
together.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:06:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: rear anti-sway bar question

>     1970-1981 Camarobirds.  Best bets are screaming chicken Trans Ams,
 >     preferably with WS6 suspension

How do you identify the WS6 suspension?  Cowl tag?  VIN?
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:07:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

From: Badger <badger@badger.com>
Graham Stewart wrote:

>> Kettering was also the main force behind Oldsmobile's Rocket V-8,
>> specifically its use of high compression ratios.  Before production,
>> (before the "Rocket" designation) it was called the Oldsmobile
Kettering >> Engine.  He died in Dayton, Ohio in 1958. >> Graham Stewart

The "Setting the Pace" book says that they were going to call it the
Kettering Engine until the GM edict of not naming things after people
caught up with them.  Then they changed the name to Rocket.  There
is a picture in the book with a early engine with Kettering on the valve
covers.

> Indeed (since I may be closest to Dayton I thought I'd chime in),
>Kettering is sometimes credited among Ohioans with putting Dayton on
the >map (the other leading contenders are Orville and Wilbur Wright,
two >Daytonians who...well, I can't remember what they did exactly).

Didnt they start the Air Force museum?  :-)

> And, one of Dayton's better-off suburbs is named Kettering. I'm always
>willing to brag about Ohio, thank you.

I've stayed in the Kettering Mansion a few times, when I used to
accompany my wife to Dayton back when she did some work with
the Medical School associated with the Kettering Hospital.  An
interesting house to say the least.  Didnt it burn down a couple of
years ago, when the Christmas decorations caught on fire?

I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
diesel trains, etc.
I think they sold the book in the gift shop at the hospital.

- -Jeff Easton
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:14:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Centennial Update

Hello,

There seems to be some confusion out there on Oldsmobile's 100th
Anniversary.
 Ransom E. Olds and a group of Lansing businessmen incorporated the Olds
Motor Vehicle Company at Lansing on August 21, 1897.  Therefore 1997
will be out 100th Anniversary.

Sincerely,
Heidi Magyar
Olds Heidi@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:18:37 -0400
Subject: Re: th350 pan gasket seal problem.

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>

>anyhow, I'm having a hell of a hard time getting a good seal on the
>tranny pan gasket on my th350.  it just leaks constantly!   I just
tried >another gasket last night and it still leaks.  I'm making sure
not >to over tighten (using a 1/4" drive ratchet, getting them snug),
and >both times I've cleaned both surfaces very well (better than I
clean >my dishes).  The first time I used a thin paper  type gasket with
a >little permatex gasket sealer between the gasket and the pan.  last
>night I used a napa rubber gasket and no permatex at all.  what
>gaskets do yall use?  do you use any kind of sealer?  should I be
>looking for a cork gasket?

The three automatic transmissions I've done (two 200-4R's and
a 4L60) have never leaked.  I've used the permatex sealer that
comes in a can with a brush in the cap.  It is a purple color and
thin enough to just brush on to the gasket.  I paint both sides
of the gasket, throw it on the pan and just tighten her up.

The 4L60 I just did came with two gaskets and a note saying that
the thinner fiber gasket was to be used if the pan had a formed
ridge in the mating surface, the cork one if the pan edge was just
flat.  Since all my pans are the former type, I've never used a
cork gasket.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed (obviously not one of the above cars :-)

------------------------------

From: VUBS79A@prodigy.com (MR DREW A DURIGAN)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:26:35 -0400
Subject: Rights vs Obligations

>In FL, homeowners associations are very powerful.  As described to
me by an
>attorney they are like a small municipality able to pass rules and
collect
>taxes in the form of dues. But, it takes 80% of the community to
change these
>rules, so not very likely.  While we don't like all of them, we knew
what we
>were getting into when we signed at closing.  There's a difference
versus
>some elected official telling me what is good for me and using my
tax money
>to force it down my throat.

Exactly.  I have no problem with someone telling me that "these are
the rules" and then being able to choose whether or not I want to
live there and abide by the rules.  But here in Florida, this
sometimes isn't the case...

Due to the explosive growth, annexation of surrounding land by cities,
 etc., the rules sometimes change around you.  Say you decided to
move "out in the country" because you wanted to be able to store junk
cars, put up radio antennas (as a ham operator, this is also an
important issue to me), or whatever.  You purposely purchase property
out in the sticks because you don't want to bother anyone with your
hobbies.  But then, subdivisions began to grow up around you.  After
the area is "built up", the city then annexes the land and subjects
you to all their restrictive rules and regulations which you must
legally abide by since you are then "living in the city."

This seems incredibly unfair to me, and is a common occurance here in
Florida.

- -Drew in Sunny Central Florida-

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:30:47 -0400
Subject: RE: Junk in the front yard

> (Yes, functional, normal pickup trucks and other
>light commercial stuff like vans with company logos on them.) They have
>to be concealed or garaged somehow.
>
>                            That would be Flossmoor, Illinois.
>                            dj

They also have strong views on dental hygiene.

But seriously, folks, I'm pretty sure this has spread beyond Flossmoor.
Next time I read about this flap in the Tribune -- it seems to come up
on a regular basis -- I'll pay attention to which suburb(s) are trying
it now.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:42:59 -0400
Subject: Throttle Vavle cable adjustment

Hello,
       This past weekend I tried to figure out how to adjust my tv
cable. I'm not sure if this is the reason my car goes nowhere when I
floor it? It revs real high and then when it shifts I finally go. After
I checked the trans fluid, I went on to check the tv cable. Does any one
know how you can tell if it is out of adjustment? I have some books that
say how to adjust it but they don't say how you can tell if it is out.
       I've also heard that it could be the bands slipping. Does anybody
know if it is hard to adjust these? Is it expensive to have a repair
shop work on it? All comments are appreciated.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu
'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:37:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 1964 F-85 Cutlass

>I swear that if you posted a message that you were having trouble
changing >an oil filter you would have 20 guy's with the original manual
post the >info, and most likely have some guy from Finland offer to come
over on a >Saturday and help you do it.

Greg, you should put this quote in the Majordomo Welcome message; it's
the best summary of this list I've seen. Second, anyone?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:46:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia AND classified searcher

>I picked up a small book on one trip there that was a biography
>on Kettering.  It talks about his involvment in lead as an octane
>booster, quick drying paint, diesel engines, and the startup of
>the GM Electromotive plant in McCook, Ill, where they build
>diesel trains, etc.

I thought it was LaGrange...? There's a little GM nameplate on the
locomotives on the lower edge near the engineer's ladder. I'll have
to take a closer look when I'm back at the train station this evening.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:06:33 -0400
Subject: Re: th350 pan gasket seal problem.

I posted a day to soon on the pan gasket.  I finally got
a good seal on the pan using a NAPA black rubber gasket.  I discovered
that the problem was actually the detent cable o-ring!  fuild was
leaking out of this hole and down around the pan so it looked like a pan
gasket leak.  looking back on it, I feel foolish,  when I changed the
detent cable a month or so ago, I had to drop the pan to get at it (my
old detent cable was seized so the only way to remove it was to drop
the pan).  I put it all back together, saw fuild leaking and assumed it
was the pan gasket.    in anycase,  the new olds detent cable didn't
come with an o-ring, so I cut a round gasket out of gasket material and
used gasket sealant (non-hardening) on both sides of the gasket and
installed it between the detent cable hold-down flange and the th350
case.  and it worked fine.

thanks to those of you who replied.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:02:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 70-72 front fenders

At 02:37 AM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I was told by my local Olds dealer that you couldn't get 70-72 front
[snip]
>As of two weeks ago the Olds parts mgr here said they were still
available. >I'll check tomorrow as I need something from him anyway. >
>Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728

Heck, if they're still available from the factory, I'll take a driver's
side. I still can't believe that these are not available in
reproduction, considering all the Cutlasses out there.
_______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:10:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Torque-ing

Tom Lentz wrote:

>      Aluminum or iron intake manifold?  Aluminum is 25 ft-lbs.  I'd
have to

iron

>      look up iron.  I'm 99% sure that the valve covers are 15 ft-lbs,
I'm >      not near my books now.  Aren't there a lot of torque specs
on >      Bryceman's page (www.442.com)?

I checked this out and its 7 ft-lbs.  Thanks for the information.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:12:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Die Cast Cars

Todd Hall wrote:

> I've found another source for anyone interested in getting the
> 69 H/O and 69 442 die cast models being released shortly.

What no 68's?  Are these available?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:17:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Torque-ing

Dave Paulison wrote:

> Intake manifold to cylinder head bolts.........35 ft/lbs.
> Valve cover bolts..............................7  ft/lbs.
>
> Intake manifold to cylinder head bolts should be cleaned and dipped in
> engine oil before tightening.
>
> Hope this helps you...

Yes it does.  Thanks :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:26:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

Kurt wrote:

>
> > Here is another point for everyone to ponder.  My glove compartment
light > > only works when the parking or headlights are on!  Kinda does
away with > > the safety theory. > > Mine too.  I would assume this
goes back to the draining of the battery. > I've seen many cars where
the glove compartment has been left open... > This is also an annoyance
sometimes - you go in the pasenger door at > night > to get something
from the glove box and have to reach over to turn on > the > parking
lights to see.

That seems strange.  My 68 has a little spring loaded switch.  I am
surprised that Oldsmobile abandoned it.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:24:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Torque-ing

Chris Fair wrote:

> I've only done my intake manifold twice but seem to remember there is
a > specific sequence for tightening the bolts which goes from the
center > of the block to the edges in increments up to 22 ft-lbs per
bolt. The sequence > and final reading should be covered in every
Chassis Service Manual Olds > has ever done. Valve covers should go to 8
ft-lbs as I recall. > > Can anyone else confirm what my memory says? >
Chris Fair

Thanks Chris!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:47:51 -0400
Subject: Re: tic-toc-tac

Charley Buehner wrote:

>      Actually, I've never had much of a problem seeing mine.  I love
it!  I > just wish the clock would keep working (no wd40 tricks, I know
'em.  The > contacts are shot, and I haven't gotten around to
~completely~ overhauling > it...)  The clock still has the three hands,
and the tach has a large sweep > of a 1/2 inch hand that runs around the
clock.  It's fairly simple, and is > just as ugly as the '66 Toro
(remember those flames???)  I ~really~ like em > both, thank you very
much... :)

Thank Charley!  I think I may add a ralley pack at some time in the
future. Since I feel that it is a cosmetic change, it has to come after
the mechanical /operational fixes.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:13:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Silica bags corrosion deterent (help)

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 96-11-05 01:07:10 EST, you write:
>
> << Back a couple months ago, somebody mention about a
>  silica pack that absorbs moisture.  I would like more
>  info on this such as price and size and opionions
>  if it works and to what degree.  My intention is to put
>  one in the engine compartment to protect my aluminum
>  parts from corroding and pitting.  Any help would be
>  deeply appreciated.  Thanks in advance
>
>  Regards Mark Prince  (W MACHINES)
>  (2) 1972 442 W-30'S

Hi Mark, I remember the whole thing, infact he was supposed to send me a
box of 20 packs, but I havn't recieved anythging from him yet. I was
going to reinburse him but I forgot his name and e-mail, I have to go
into my library of olds digests and look him up. When I find the info I
will let you know.

Fernando

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:29:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Coolant recovery



The inside of my coolant recovery bottle was dirty and I cleaned it by
filling it with small pebbles and sand.  Put in some water, liquid
soap and shake it good. Mine came out looking great.


>Does anybody have a method for effective cleaning of a coolant recovery
 >bottle??  I got one today out of a '71 Buick for my Olds, and the
white >opaque plastic is rather filthy.  Other than cleaning the actual
grime off >of it (which I _think_ I can handle without help), is there
a way to restore >the look (color) of the plastic?  The top of it is
black plastic; can that >be restored as well?


Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:56:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Silica bags corrosion deterent (help)

If your really interested in these, check out a local packaging
manufacturer, like companies that make cardboard boxes.  Most of them
carry some sort of silica packs (or other form of desiccant), and can
order larger or smaller ones if needed.

Kurt
71 442

Fernando Proietto wrote:
>
> WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 96-11-05 01:07:10 EST, you write:
> >
> > << Back a couple months ago, somebody mention about a
> >  silica pack that absorbs moisture.  I would like more
> >  info on this such as price and size and opionions
> >  if it works and to what degree.  My intention is to put
> >  one in the engine compartment to protect my aluminum
> >  parts from corroding and pitting.  Any help would be
> >  deeply appreciated.  Thanks in advance
> >
> >  Regards Mark Prince  (W MACHINES)
> >  (2) 1972 442 W-30'S
>
> Hi Mark, I remember the whole thing, infact he was supposed to send me
a > box of 20 packs, but I havn't recieved anythging from him yet. I was >
going to reinburse him but I forgot his name and e-mail, I have to go >
into my library of olds digests and look him up. When I find the info I >
will let you know. > > Fernando

------------------------------

From: Anthony Del Balso <anthony@robots.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:58:25 -0400
Subject: Vacuum ports

Hello everyone!

Thanks to all who sent me previous posts regarding setting the idle
screws on a quadrajet!  I was hoping to receive another posted letter as
well.  I apologize for my incompetence wrt saving posts I need, but my
sys administra. saw fit to change my system again!  Anyway, I am now
looking for a post which detailed how to figure out what type of vacuum
is present in all ports on the carb and manifold.  If anyone has this
post, please send it to me directly, I hate to pester everyone w/
repeated posts.  Thanks in advance!!

anthony
anthony@robots.com


------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:03:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Silica bags corrosion deterent (help)

At 01:13 AM 11/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 96-11-05 01:07:10 EST, you write:
>>
>> << Back a couple months ago, somebody mention about a
>>  silica pack that absorbs moisture.  I would like more
>>  info on this such as price and size and opionions
>>  if it works and to what degree.  My intention is to put
>>  one in the engine compartment to protect my aluminum
>>  parts from corroding and pitting.  Any help would be
>>  deeply appreciated.  Thanks in advance
>>
>>  Regards Mark Prince  (W MACHINES)
>>  (2) 1972 442 W-30'S
>
>Hi Mark, I remember the whole thing, infact he was supposed to send me
a >box of 20 packs, but I havn't recieved anythging from him yet. I was
>going to reinburse him but I forgot his name and e-mail, I have to go
>into my library of olds digests and look him up. When I find the info I
>will let you know. > >Fernando


I found this in my files, It should help you both out:

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     O.K. Here's the low down;
     20 bags of this stuff weighs in at 3 pounds.
     I'd be more than happy to box them up and ship them anywhere. All
for
     the good of the great Oldsmobile.
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

If you want to contact me personally
E-mail    Eric B. Buckner@Non-HP.om.cv.hp.com


************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        Mailto:davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:34:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 350 rebuild



I'm just about done with my front end rebuild using parts from PST.  I
bought their full kit at Carlisle a few months ago.  They threw in the
video too, which I'd strongly reccommend.  Not too difficult really,
just go slow and pay attention to what you're doing.  One problem I did
have is that the studs that the upper control arm uses to attach to
the frame of the car were spot welded in place on my 71 442.  I
couldn't break the spot weld, so I had to remove most of the steering
shaft and the exhaust headers to get enough room to slide the control
arm off the studs.  You will need several tools: tie rod fork, nice
stout hammer, coil spring compressor, a bearing race or other homemade
device with which to drive the new bushings into the arms (if you don't
take it to a shop), bench vise, etc.  By the time I'm done it will have
 taken around 30 hrs I'd guess.  I'm not the most efficient mechanic,
kind of like to putter around in there.......


>this, I would like to hear of their experience.  I just video taped the
 >suspension while it is completely intact, for reference later after
it is >completely apart.  I do have the Service Manual, and that
should provide >some assistance, but I would love to hear from anyone
who has done this, and

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

From: nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:03:36 -0400
Subject: Re: modificatons

Well I have a '85 Delta 3.8 V6. No work has been done to the car yet so
I am basically starting from scratch. Any suggestions for a starting
point..

------------------------------

From: Dana Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:12:40 -0400
Subject: ID Question

Hi. Me again with more dumb questions.
Yesterday I was riding around town during lunch and spotted a pretty
little Olds in a used car lot so I stopped in. It turned out to be a
1983 Olds Calais. Has T-Tops. Red interior with auto on floorw/buckets.
Says 83k on spedo but I wonder maybe 183K. Been repainted and
armoralled. Now for the questions. The guy told me it has a 305?? in
it. I know better so don't give me hell. The shroud says 5.0 liter.
That should mean 307. But... The engine number behind water pump says
557265 4B the heads have 4A on them. The valve covers have all the
holes drilled out along the bottom for bolts but there are not all the
holes in the heads. I am sure that the engine is not origional nor are
the valve covers orginal to the heads. It does have new 4Brl and
alternator. The price is 2495 but the guy said I will take 2000 even
before I tried it out. So the Vin is 2G3AK47YID2330218   What is the
engine??? 260??? and what is the car supposed to be???
  Thanks in advance  Dana

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:41:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 80 Olds Cutlass Die Cast find

At 01:17 AM 11/6/96 -0400, WMACHINES@AOL.COM wrote:

>Jason, do you have an address and a phone number for this shop.
>Their is one other car which is a red and white CRC #3 olds that
>looks like the Gatorade and Black Gold cars.
>Thanks in advance Mark Prince  W MACHINES

The name of the company is Surplus Tractor Parts Corp. Number is
1-800-859-2045. They are on the web at  www.stpc.com. I seen that they
have the 1:18 scale 69 H/O for $37.49. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason
Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports
Administration graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro
Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80
Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:44:05 -0400
Subject: RE: Junk in the front yard

Andrew sez:
>
> But seriously, folks, I'm pretty sure this has spread beyond
Flossmoor. > Next time I read about this flap in the Tribune -- it seems
to come up > on a regular basis -- I'll pay attention to which suburb(s)
are trying > it now.

There was an article on this very thing in the Boston Globe last year.
One of these neighborhoods is near my home office, in Marlborough, MA.
A whole buncha 400 - 500K homes, strict rules on whats parked out front.
And no working on cars in yer driveway -- not even a fully restored
Curved Dash :P



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "JOSEPH_W. BARKER" <BARKERJO@mailserv1.ferris.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:55:40 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question

Dana,

If the eighth letter in the VIN code is "Y" than the original engine
in the car from the factory was an Olds 307.  Since yours is Y, then
it originally came with a 5.0 liter 307.

Good Luck,

Joe Barker
84 Cutlass Calais with a 307!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 06:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re: ID Question

     From the VIN number the car originally had a olds 307.  The engine
     that's in there now is an Olds 403 (!).  Sorry, I can't tell the
year
     exactly, but somewhere from '77 to '79.

     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: ID Question Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/6/96 10:35 AM


Hi. Me again with more dumb questions.
Yesterday I was riding around town during lunch and spotted a pretty
little Olds in a used car lot so I stopped in. It turned out to be a
1983 Olds Calais. Has T-Tops. Red interior with auto on floorw/buckets.
Says 83k on spedo but I wonder maybe 183K. Been repainted and
armoralled. Now for the questions. The guy told me it has a 305?? in
it. I know better so don't give me hell. The shroud says 5.0 liter.
That should mean 307. But... The engine number behind water pump says
557265 4B the heads have 4A on them. The valve covers have all the
holes drilled out along the bottom for bolts but there are not all the
holes in the heads. I am sure that the engine is not origional nor are
the valve covers orginal to the heads. It does have new 4Brl and
alternator. The price is 2495 but the guy said I will take 2000 even
before I tried it out. So the Vin is 2G3AK47YID2330218   What is the
engine??? 260??? and what is the car supposed to be???
  Thanks in advance  Dana



------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:08:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> There was an article on this very thing in the Boston Globe last year.
> One of these neighborhoods is near my home office, in Marlborough, MA.
> A whole buncha 400 - 500K homes, strict rules on whats parked out
> front.  And no working on cars in yer driveway -- not even a fully
> restored Curved Dash :P

Talk about getting carried away.  Geez.  Glad I don't live there!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:25:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

I wrote:
> > There was an article on this very thing in the Boston Globe last
year. > > One of these neighborhoods is near my home office, in
Marlborough, MA. > > A whole buncha 400 - 500K homes, strict rules on
whats parked out > > front.  And no working on cars in yer driveway --
not even a fully > > restored Curved Dash :P

The 66 Toro and Mike responded:
>
> Talk about getting carried away.  Geez.  Glad I don't live there!
>


Yeah, and the funny thing is, this controlled neighborhood (called
Violet Woods - -- first time I saw the sign in front of the entrance to
it I thought it said "Violent Woods" :) ) -- is about a quarter mile
from the Marlborough town dump, which has a distinctive aroma to say the
least, especially on hot humid summer days :) ...and next ot the dump is
one of my old stomping grounds Post Road Used Auto Parts -- "old"
because they no longer keep cars over 7 - 8 yrs old now :P

Now I go to Dufour's in Lancaster, MA.  Nuthin newer than 1975.




Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:50:10 -0400
Subject: Olds Museum

Hey, a wuick holler from Lansing...
coupla issues...
1- Penny Ruff at the Oldsmobile Transportation Museum called, wants to
get word out on the internet about the stuff the museum sells... I told
her one way was to email Bryce, ask if he'd place a list of items on
there. I also told her that she could probably create, perhaps with the
help of talented folks here [Darren... etc.] their own web page. But,
that's about the extent of my knowledge on the matter- that it CAN be
done. I don't know who to contact for a host site, exactly HOW to
"create a web page", etc. Seems like "442.com" would be hard to beat.
Anyone with tips or expertise please call Penny at 517-372-0529. I might
be able to scare up her email address so you can contact her more
conveniently...

2- I have a rather lengthy contribution to submit to the list, detailing
much of the story about the founding of Oldsmobile and Reo... soon as I
can figure out how to get these non-cooperating IBM computers to accept
a file off floppy and submit it to email... used to work fine down the
hall, but that 'puter no net no more...

Remember, folks, that I am not a list subscriber :-( so if you wanna
discuss this with ME, email me at the address below... - -- Chris  B.
Witt wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:55:31 -0400
Subject: Olds Museum, Part II

OK, for the ultimate expediency, here's how to contact the REOTMuseum:

   reolds@voyager.net

email Penny Ruff with all your tips, suggestions, and offers of expert
assistance...
- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:05:34 -0400
Subject: Locator Parts Request(Fwd)

Got this back from an online parts locator.  Thought some might find it
useful...


>Here are a few advertisers we have that may have information on
ornaments >for a 1983-84 Olds as requested: > >Vintage Auto  Mountain
Home, ID  208-587-3743 >Sunrise Auto  Lake City, FL  904-755-1810
>Action Auto  Massapequa, NY  800-562-8811 >Drive In Auto Salvage
Oklahoma City, OK  800-681-5212 >The Parts Place  Batavia, IL
708-879-1600 > >I also accessed your web site to see the illustration of
the '81 Olds you >had mentioned in youe e-mail; I too have never seen
anything like it.  If I >find a  source that may have an answer for you,
I'll let you know. > >If you contact any of these, please let them know
that you heard about them >from The Locator Magazine.  Thank you very
much! > >Kevin Burk >Internet Representative >kburk@partslocator.com > > >

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Michael Kurzdorfer <mikek@net.bluemoon.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:06:00 -0400
Subject: Need tips, info on short term storage

Hello,

	I just about have my recovered 442 back in shape.  However it is
time for me to put it away for a long winters nap.
	What I need are, tips/instructions on how to store and how take
out of storage.  It will be stored in my mothers garage.

Thanks

Mike Kurzdorfer
mikek@net.bluemoon.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:07:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk in the front yard

A>> One of these neighborhoods is near my home office, in Marlborough,
MA. >> A whole buncha 400 - 500K homes, strict rules on whats parked out
 >> front.  And no working on cars in yer driveway -- not even a fully
>> restored Curved Dash :P > >Talk about getting carried away.  Geez.
Glad I don't live there!

I live in a Planned Urban Development, which a casual observer would
assume was a bunch of townhouses. Rather than become President of the
Homeowners' Association, which would entail having to put up with
annoying complaints from residents all the time, I decided to marry
the President instead. Okay, we were actually married long before we
even moved to this place, but I was planning ahead.  :-)

Anyway, there is a happy compromise to work towards which keeps most
of the residents happy most of the time. In real life that's the best
you can do. The board authority is established by requirements for new
home purchasers to sign for a copy of the Rules 'n' Regs prior to
closing on a townhouse, so everyone knows the rules (or is supposed to,
anyway) before buying a house here. As far as cars are concerned, the
main rules are:

1) All cars must be licensed and registered (state & local). The cops
will ticket for expired plates, etc.
2) Assigned parking spaces, deeded to the homeowners. Those with more
spaces than cars can rent to those with more cars than space. Overnight
parking out on the street is banned village-wide (Arlington Heights,
IL), though the cops tend to look the other way for car-intensive
developments like ours. 3) Working on cars in one's parking space is
permitted, but cars are not allowed to remain on ramps or jack-stands
overnight. 4) Strict enforcement to prevent guests from double-parking,
occupying fire zones, etc. This is the stickiest rule, and involves
towing, fines, etc., but if the board slacks on this one, we'll have
cars piled all over the place.

Pain in the butt? Sometimes. But the rules are laid out so that all know
before they move in, and there are state-enforced procedures on how the
residents can make, change and enforce their own rules. There is no
shortage of lawyers for this stuff.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:19:15 -0400
Subject: [Long] _Auto Pioneering_

Excerpts from _Auto Pioneering_ by Duane Yarnell, published 1949,
Franklin DeKleine Co., Lansing, MI.
      -paraphrased, not quoted, for the most part-

A note:
     I disseminate this information in order to enhance understanding of
the impact that R.E. Olds had on the automotive industry, and, in turn,
promote the old-car hobby. This is by no means intended to infringe on
any copyright; in fact, many key and interesting aspects of the
above-mentioned book have been omitted here. I heartily encourage the
reader to buy or borrow from a library the above book, and read it to
get a fuller, more personal rendition of the following. The author, Mr.
Yarnell, had the advantage of partaking in extensive personal interviews
with Ransom Olds, which allows him to convey personality aspects in a
manner which I cannot and thus will not attempt to duplicate. The book
also contains nearly three dozen photographic plates, which alone make
the book worthy of pursuit. I apologize for the somewhat disjointed
presentation; I have only so much time to devote to the editing.
     -Chris Witt, 11/96-

- ------------------- A story of Ransom E. Olds ----------------

    The youngest child born of Pliny F. and Sarah Whipple Olds, who ran
a small repair shop in Geneva, Ohio, Ransom Eli came into a family with
3 brothers and one sister on the third of June 1864.
    The Olds family moved to Cleveland when Ranny was 6 years old, where
Pliny became foreman in the Variety Ironworks. Three years later, due to
Pliny's health, they moved to a farm 9 miles south of Cleveland. When
Ransom was 15, the family traded the farm equity for a plot in Lansing,
MI. There Pliny, an expert mechanic, supported the family through owning
a small machine shop.
    R.E. soon sold an engine design for $24.00, his first commercial
invention. Early experimentation involved a gasoline fired steam engine,
of R.E.'s design, fitted to a small skiff. He took several of his braver
friends for rides on the nearby Grand River.
    The Olds gasoline powered engines sold well, making the family
business prosperous. The young developer's next step was to make a
3-wheeled, tiller steered, steam powered horseless carriage, working on
his own time.
    In 1886, after 2 years of development, R.E. decided to make the
first test ride of his new conveyance at 3:00 in the morning, so as to
minimize the chance of scaring horses, and also to avoid a scene of
public embarrassment should the device fail. In retrospect, he might
have been better off to pick a busy day, such as Independence Day, when
most folks would be engrossed in celebrating... He proceeded to wake the
locals with the machine's alien cacophony of mechanical creaking and
groaning, and then scare the milk wagon horse into a frenzy, spilling
milk all over town. Barking dogs added to the melee, and only the
machine's running out of steam brought the calamity to an end. In the
fiasco, 9 quarts of milk and a quart of buttermilk were lost, and R.E.
gladly paid for them. This has been recorded as the first horseless
carriage ride upon the streets of Michigan.

    Four years later, the next version, sporting 4 wheels to support a
larger, more powerful boiler, made its very successful maiden voyage.
Some time later, a representative from the magazine Scientific American
showed up to examine the new invention. This visit was written up in the
May 21, 1892 edition, constituting the first time that the young man's
ventures gained notoriety beyond the local media. That national
publicity brought many letters of inquiry from around the world, one of
which was an offer to purchase the vehicle. In 1893, that steam powered
vehicle was sold for $400 and shipped to the Bombay, India offices of a
London patent medicine company. This was, of course, the first of
millions of autos the U.S. industry was to export.

    After Pliny's remarks about how poorly the business was doing scared
off the first potential investor that R.E. had obtained, the elder Olds
finally sensed that the time had come to hand over the reins. R.E.
bought out his aging father and incorporated the Olds Gasoline Engine
Works with $30,000, including $10,000 borrowed from an astute neighbor,
E.F. Cooley. R.E. was installed as president and general manager,
holding a majority of the stock.

    Gasoline was at the time merely a waste product of the production of
kerosene from crude oil. Following the Otto cycle engine developed in
Germany, R.E. figured that, since it could run on city gas, it could run
on gasoline as well or better, if only the gasoline were vaporized
first. Using the principle of the atomizer, as found on perfume bottles,
he devised a rudimentary but serviceable mixing valve, or carburetor, to
vaporize the gasoline into the engine's incoming air. The company began
producing the new Otto cycle gasoline engines in quantity by 1893.

    The new application of the gasoline engine to the horseless carriage
was to include several improvements. Hard rubber tires replaced the
traditional steel-banded wheels that carriages used. Two seats, with the
rear one capable of facing backwards, were provided. To aid
maneuverability, reverse gear was provided. In seeking an improvement to
the crude and unreliable hot-tube method of ignition, R.E. discussed the
problem with another representative of Scientific American. Soon
thereafter, a letter from Sing Sing prison arrived. It seems the staff
electrician, in addition to keeping the electric chair in working order,
had been experimenting with electricity, and had produced a small device
that he was sure would provide the necessary spark to initiate
combustion.
    These engines, and others like them, were to make history, and pave
the way for widespread acceptance of the auto, by convincing people that
gasoline could be used safely. Soon, the Olds factory was producing
gasoline engines in three sizes for marine and farm uses. Lansing became
the hub of the gasoline engine field, shipping engines to all parts of
the world, and gasoline began to outstrip kerosene as a fuel.

    When Mr. H.H. Kohlsat of the Chicago Times-Herald sponsored a race
for horseless carriages in Chicago on Thanksgiving day 1895, with a
prize of $5000, Mr. Olds was conspicuously absent; he was too busy in
the midst of the economic depression to devote the time and money
necessary to build a suitable vehicle. That decision may have saved the
company.  The race did succeed in sparking interest in these new
inventions. Many small shops seized the challenge to produce a vehicle,
and investors felt better about parting with their money after seeing
the great interest and considerable successes that the contest spurred.
    Soon, some of Lansing's most successful businessmen approached Mr.
Olds with the idea of founding a company to manufacture such
automobiles. Spearheaded by Edward W. Sparrow, a mining & lumbering
magnate, the investor group convinced R.E. to enter the business of
making automobiles. While this was R.E.'s plan all along, he saw that,
with their financial and psychological backing, the opportunity to begin
such an endeavor would occur far sooner than by simply amassing the
capital through profits from the business of making gasoline engines.
    Incorporated with $50,000 in capital, and R.E. unanimously elected
as the manager, the fledgling Olds Motor Vehicle Co. held its first
meeting on August 21, 1897. The group put forth the goal of making "one
perfect horseless carriage." Upon Mr. Olds' insistence that perfection
cannot be attained in reality, the words were changed to "nearly
perfect."

"Directors Meeting
August 21, 1897
It was moved by Mr. Stebbins that R.E. Olds be elected manager for the
coming 11 months. Carried.
    It was moved by Mr. Stebbins that the manager be authorized to build
one perfect [struck through] carriage in as nearly perfect a manner as
possible and complete it at the earliest possible moment. Carried."

    Four cars were produced by the end of that first year, each bought
as soon as available. One sold in Tennessee, one in California, and the
other 2 in Michigan. One of the four has survived, and is on display in
the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C.

- ---Labor troubles, 1898:
    Overly greedy union demands were ultimately rejected by Mr. Olds,
who had been quite generous already. Richard H. Scott was hired to
replace a troublesome shop superintendent. In protest, workers sabotaged
the engines, and ultimately their own jobs, by putting emery dust in the
bearings of the new engines. The resulting strike exacted a heavy toll
on the small company, but it survived. Mr. Olds even hired back some of
the original strikers!
    Two real estate men from Detroit encouraged R.E. to set up shop in
Detroit, which he was prepared to do until he found that the business
was to be established by the sale of bonds to the public. Wanting to
keep the risks contained to a few wealthy men who could well afford a
loss should it occur, R.E. decided against this course of action.
Instead, Olds approached the original Lansing backers and stunned them
with the proposal that an investment of nearly a third of a million
dollars would set the company on the right track- that of mass
production. This in spite of the fact that their original investment,
having weathered the strike, was hardly a resounding success as yet.
    Mr. Sparrow brought in S.L. Smith from Detroit, who agreed that
expanded production was essential for success. Smith also had two sons,
Frederick and Angus, fresh out of college, eager to make a career out of
this new business. Assured that interest could be easily aroused in
wealthy Detroit men, Olds began to plot the expansion.
    In expanding, the group agreed to build engines in the existing
Lansing facility, and construct a new building in Detroit for the
assembly of the automobiles. In 1899, The Olds Motor Works was formed
from the Olds Gasoline Engine Company and the Olds Motor Vehicle
Company, with a paid-in capitol of $350,000, of which R.E. received
$50,000 for his interest in the Olds Gasoline Engine Works, and a large
block of stock. However, R.E. no longer had enough stock to retain
control, which soon became critical. The first building ever built
exclusively for the production of automobiles was the 3-story Olds Motor
Works building on 4.5 acres near Detroit's Belle Isle bridge in 1899.
    The cars were selling for $1350, and R.E. saw a need for a far
cheaper, simpler version of the automobile. With a simpler design, they
could produce thousands rather than merely hundreds a year, and at a
handsome profit. To him, quantity and affordability were second only to
quality, for he knew that in these early days, each auto owner would
tell his tales of either woe or delight to all those around him, and
that would greatly influence their purchasing decisions. To most folks,
the auto was just a scary, noisy, expensive machine, and it would take a
lot of convincing to win over the populace to spend their hard-earned
money on such a device. He knew that the more inexpensive and simple the
machine, the easier that task would be. Proceeding with development of
the new smaller car, the REOMW became the first auto producer in history
to engage in mass production.

- ---the Curved-Dash Oldsmobile
    Affordable, sturdy, reliable, and simple were the requirements; the
Curved-dash Oldsmobile Runabout was the result. "Oldsmobile" had been
chosen as the name for the revolutionary vehicle. The Curved-dash was
the first to bear that nameplate, a marque which survives to this day.
    The Curved-dash Runabout derived its name from the prominent,
attractive curvature of the front of the car. The new design was much
smaller, weighing barely 700 pounds. In true horseless carriage style,
the wooden body resembled that of a carriage, with a seat for two
passengers in the front, and the motor and fuel tank concealed in a
small housing behind and under the passengers. The 4-stoke cycle
gasoline engine was started by a crank. Power was transmitted via chain
to the rear axle. Two forward speeds and reverse were provided. The
small wheels were made with wire spokes, and fitted with pneumatic
single-tube tires. Steering was still effected with a tiller bar, a
design which R.E. adapted from boats.
    After the first few models were produced for demonstrators in 1900,
Mr. Olds set about establishing a reputation for the vehicle. To gain
public acceptance, impressive shows were staged at county fairs. Three
Oldsmobiles were perched on a 60 foot teeter-totter, and would make it
rock by moving the cars. Two (strong) men were hired to lift the auto,
displaying its lightness of weight. Passengers, as many as seventeen at
a time, were piled on in order to exhibit the sturdiness of the machine.
A car was fitted with an elevated railing, or tightrope, upon which a
man balanced while the car proceeded up a ramp of some 10 feet in
height.

- ---Establishing Dealerships
    R.E. devised the concept of a dealer network, with each dealer
serving the needs of a specific area. By stocking parts and keeping a
mechanic on hand, the dealer could increase his own profits, and at the
same time, eliminate such detail work for the parent company. He also
insisted that the dealers pay cash up front for the autos, and the
dealers in turn sold on a cash basis.

- ---Line Production, R.E. Instrumental in Ford's start
    Soon, it was apparent that the current method of production: one car
at a time by a team of workers, in one location, had to change. In 1901,
under the guidance of R.E. Olds, the assembly line process began to take
shape.
    "Many a future 'great' of the automotive industry spent hour after
hour in their early years visiting the shops at the Oldsmobile plant.
One interested observer, a tall, thin-faced man in his thirties, of a
late afternoon stood looking on at the progress which was being made.
This young man had worked for the Detroit Edison Company at an annual
wage of $1,000. His name was Henry Ford. When R.E. saw him watching one
of the curved-dash models undergo a road test, he said, 'Henry, this is
going to be a great business. Why don't you get into it?'"

- ---Public anti-automobile sentiment
    In the U.S. Senate, Sr. Joseph Bailey of TX cried, "If I had my way,
I would make it a crime to use automobiles on the public highways;
because no man has a right to use on the highway a vehicle that is
dangerous to the safety of other people. Perhaps the day will come when
horses will be educated to the point where they will not be afraid of
automobiles; but I doubt that, for I have not seen the time yet that I
was not afraid of them."
    A New York World editorial extolled the troubles caused by the
"Devil Wagon": increased demand for leather and rubber had spurred price
increases in these commodities, so that shoes and boots cost more. Thus,
it seemed, the walking man was indirectly paying for autos from which he
garnered only danger and irritation. Bad publicity like this needed
countering, say, by delivering safe and reliable machines in ever
increasing quantities.
    Having geared up for mass production, R.E. and family left for a
much needed vacation in CA. Upon returning to Detroit via train in that
spring of 1901, he was faced with the news that his new factory had
burned to the ground. Only one of vehicles had been saved by being
pushed from the inferno by Mr. Jim Brady. Realizing their critical role,
the hero had also saved the working drawings and specifications. With a
model and the drawings, resuming production was not such a formidable
task.
    At this turn of fate, the Lansing Chamber of Commerce, eager to win
back the now-successful hometown manufacturer, offered Olds a free 52
acre factory site at the former State Fairgrounds, complete with several
buildings. The offer was accepted.

    By the end of 1901, 400 Curved Dash automobiles had been built and
sold, in spite of the Detroit factory fire. The battle for acceptance of
the automobile had begun in earnest. If each car sold convinced only 10
others to buy one as well, his astonishing prediction of 4000 sales for
the next year could easily occur. Ever the publicity manipulator, R.E.
carried off a coup d'etat at the New York City automobile show in early
1902. He convinced, probably without much difficulty, a young assistant
by the name of Roy Chapin to drive the car from Detroit to New York,
timing the arrival just a few days before the auto show. Roy set off
early that spring, in the muddy trails that served as roads at that
time. Seven days later, Mr. Chapin showed up, greased and unkempt, at
the hotel where R.E. was staying.
    Seven and a half days. 30 gallons of gasoline. Eighty gallons of
water. speed average 14 mph, quite high considering the travel
conditions of the day. Again playing it for all it was worth, the press
was called in. Roy related his story, after which R.E. drove his
sensational little car down Broadway, making it the darling of the Auto
Show.
    Then, R.E. decided to recruit the A.G. Spaulding Co., a large
sporting goods concern, as the New York distributor of Oldsmobiles. He
convinced them by telling them that they could easily sell 100 of the
finest cars in the world in the next year. However, fearing that they
had acted in haste, the Spaulding Co. soon withdrew its offer to accept
a dealership. Olds convinced them to keep the matter silent until after
the show. Perhaps that was, in the long run, to Olds' advantage...
    In searching for an alternative, he happened upon Cleveland
Oldsmobile dealer Ralph Owen and his financier Roy Rainey. Rainey agreed
to finance Owen as New York dealer, and suggested that rather than 100
cars, they set the goal at 500 cars. R.E. replied that they should "do
this thing up right" and announce that they intend to sell one thousand
cars in the New York area. Thus began a nearly self-fulfilling prophesy.
While other makers were negotiating sales of 1 or 2 or maybe a half
dozen vehicles, Olds again stunned the crowd with the magnitude of his
faith in the industry and in his car. The crowd clamored to jump on the
bandwagon and be among the first to order.
    Rainey took the task of continuing publicity. One afternoon, he
parked at a fashionable Fifth-avenue intersection. New York's most
fashionable folks strode and rode by in carriages. Rainey lurched out
into the traffic, darting in and out between horse-drawn carriages,
causing near-panic as men cursed and women screamed. A bicycle policeman
pursued the errant driver, and soon stopped him. Chastised for exceeding
the speed limit, the clever Rainey claimed that he could not possibly
have exceeded the speed limit and invited the officer to follow him a
few blocks whilst he prove it. The policeman agreed, and soon Rainey was
again driving like a man possessed; twenty-five miles per hour, a clear
violation of the accepted speed limit of the day. Stopping so suddenly
that the policeman in chase crashed into the back of the car, Mr. Rainey
then gladly accepted the trip to the precinct station and the $25 fine
for fast driving and another $50 for bumping an officer. Thus did he
earn the distinction of being the first person ever to receive a ticket
for driving an automobile too fast. And it happened in the Curved-dash
Olds! Headlines the next day read: "OLDSMOBILE AGENT GETS $75 FINE FOR
RACING ON FIFTH AVENUE AND BUMPING POLICEMAN." The publicity return on
the small investment of the fines was tremendous, selling ever more
cars.

    During the first full year of production, the company delivered
3,750 cars. The Owen & Rainey team in New York sold 750 of the 1000 cars
they had ordered, and might have sold more if the cars had been
available. In order to further boost sales and show his faith in the
industry, R.E. once again established a remarkable precedent: he
declared that henceforth, Oldsmobiles would be sold to dealers only in
(train) carload lots. This was designed to create publicity much as did
the announcement of intending to sell 1,000 cars in New York, and also,
to weed out the dealers who were not fully committed to the goal of
populating the country with Oldsmobiles.

    By the end of 1902, R.E. saw that the future of the gasoline powered
automobile was assured. Demand caused him to sublet more and more of the
business of making parts to various other manufacturers. For instance,
in order to boost production, Olds contracted with Leland Manufacturing
Company to produce 2,000 engines. Many of these firms, seeing the waves
of orders, decided that they too could make cars, though not many were
successful in the long term. After a farm woman was injured by a car her
husband had purchased, an anti-automobile movement was formed. Hundreds
of farmers set out to drive cars from the highways, using pitchforks if
necessary. Uriah Smith, a Battle Creek Oldsmobile owner, attached a
wooden horse's head to the front of his car in an attempt to reduce the
chance of frightening horses; this method was not very successful. And
amidst this atmosphere of automobile apprehension, R.E. began to plan
for the manufacture of 5,000 vehicles in the upcoming year, 1903.

- ---First cross-country automobile trip
    In yet another publicity action, R.E. set forth a plan to have a
Curved Dash Olds driven across the continent, including the rugged
mountain trails of the continental divide, and the dirt or mud rutted
lanes serving as roads across the rural U.S. Cross-country travel at
that time was most easily performed by train, in a few days, or a wagon
or coach could make the trip in a few months, weather providing. Not
surprisingly, it was deemed by many that such a trip was not even
possible. All the more reason to do it, reasoned R.E., for to do the
"impossible" is always headline making news.
    It was arranged that two men, Eugene L. Hammond and L.L. Whitman,
would carry a message from the mayor of San Francisco to the mayor of
New York, driving a Curved-dash Oldsmobile. Amid cries of disbelief that
such a thing could be done, that it was but another publicity stunt
designed to spread the Oldsmobile name, the two embarked. Many predicted
that the two would perish along the way, never to be seen again, whether
by thirst in crossing the desert, or Indians, or carnivorous predators
living in the mountains. The lack of contact with the two during the
mountain crossing only added to the country's anticipation, of course.
    The history-making travelers were well-equipped. They carried a
canvas to ease driving across sand or similar sinking ground. They used
poles cut along the way to lever the little car over large boulders in
the mountains. Impassable streams or wide mountain chasms were crossed
by "borrowing" the railroad bridge.
    In the summer of 1903, the two men reached Detroit. By now the
naysayers were beginning to see that the trip would be completed, having
now done the hardest part; the Detroit to New York run had been done
previously. When the trip was completed, much had been done to convert
the nation to the belief that the automobile was here to stay, and was a
useful invention.

- ---Using every advantage
    However, R.E., knowing that there must always be a fresh story to
keep the public's interest, devised yet another scheme to keep the name
Oldsmobile on the mind of every American... Popular music was taking the
nation by storm, and Gus Edwards was one of the top songwriters of the
day. The Olds Company recruited him to create a song about the
much-adored little Runabout. Gus composed the music, and Vincent Bryan
provided the words, which became the time-honored classic that swept the
country, and can still be heard today...

          "In My Merry Oldsmobile."

Young Johnny Steele has an Oldsmobile
He loves a dear little girl.
She is the queen of his gas machine,
She has his heart in a whirl.
Now when they go for a spin, you know,
She tries to learn the auto, so
He lets her steer, while he gets her ear,
And whispers soft and low:
  Chorus:
Come away with me, Lucile,
In my merry Oldsmobile;
Down the road we'll fly
Automobubbling, you and I.
To the church we'll swiftly steal,
The our wedding bells will peal,
You can go as far as you like with me,
In my merry Oldsmobile.

    A Curved-dash Oldsmobile was sold to the Queen of Italy, the first
automobile ever owned by royalty. A famous Briton, Sir Thomas Lipton,
purchased one as well. The Oldsmobile was driven up the steps of the
nation's Capitol in Washington, D.C., and similarly up the steps of
Michigan's capitol building. An ad (text included below) comparing the
Curved Dash to a horse's cost, was run in the Saturday Evening Post,
Olds ads being the first auto advertisement.

    An ad copy:
- ---------------------------------------------------------
[horse shown] "Board, one year $180.00"
[Curved-dash Olds shown] "Gasoline, one year, $35.00."
"Oldsmobile, the best thing on wheels. Nothing to watch but the road.
This graceful and practical Automobile will do the work of six horses at
an average cost of $35.00 per year (10,000 miles). Board for one horse
costs $180.00 a year, so the economy is very evident.
    "The Oldsmobilist has the satisfaction of knowing his machine is
always ready. Its practicality was demonstrated by the highest awards in
the Long Island and Chicago Endurance Contests and the New York-Boston
Reliability Run.
    "Its working mechanism is simplicity itself, no complications,
nothing to go wrong; operated entirely from the seat, always under
instant control, every part easily accessible.
    "Price $650.00. Visit our exhibit at the New York Auto Show and see
how the Oldsmobile is built to run, AND DOES IT; call on any of our
fifty-eight selling agents or write for the illustrated book and
information to Department G, THE OLDS MOTOR WORKS, Detroit, Mich." -
---------------------------------------------------------

    A 1902 ad copy:
[top: 3 views of the Curved Dash shown, bottom: "goddess" offers a
palm-sized Curved Dash Olds to "the world", a man with an oversized
globe for a head.]
    "The Directors of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition, to typify at
the greatest of World's Fairs at Saint Louis, the wonderful progress
accomplished in Modern Transportation, selected the Oldsmobile as
embodying the highest achievement in mechanical genius and skill, the
best thing on wheels.
    "The whole civilized world enthusiastically endorses the selection.
    "At intervals along the outer walls of the vast Transportation
Building are heroic statues representing Ancient, Modern, Railroad, and
Water transportation. Modern Transportation is represented by a female
figure holding aloft an Oldsmobile Standard Runabout. Our exhibit is
situated just to the right of the main entrance of this building.
    "Olds Motor Works, Detroit, U.S.A.
    "Members of the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers."
- ---------------------------------------------------------

    When Michigan began to emerge as the automotive capital of the
world, it was due in large part to R.E. Olds' efforts. While many
inventors pursue success mostly for the power, fame, and glory that
might accompany it, R.E. was mainly interested in alleviating the plight
of the common man. He well remembered the days of his youth caring for
the family horse, the extensive and arduous work involved. He was keenly
aware of the difficulties of transporting goods by horse or oxen from
railheads or wharfs to the inland consumers. He could envision a country
of cars, not just for the wealthy, but where even the working man could
afford reliable, fast transportation. Unfortunately, he was no longer
sole operator of the company, and others had different ideas about the
direction the company should take...

    R.E. would often give a new part to an owner who would stop by to
complain of, say, a broken spring. He considered this good business
practice, and cheap advertising, for a satisfied customer was a ready
ally in selling more cars. He considered the cost of the part an
excellent trade for the customer goodwill it earned. Indeed, the
financial statement issued at the end of the 1903 year showed production
was up to about 5,000 cars, earning enough to pay a 75% cash dividend,
and leaving a balance in the bank of some $750,000. By contrast, two
years earlier, production had cost the company some $80,000.

- --Selden Patent incident
    It was common for R.E. to ignore other manufacturers' copying his
designs, for though lawsuits for patent infringement might have won
exclusivity and/or royalty fees, he felt that the industry would be
better served as a whole if well-designed components were used on more
vehicles. Thus, the stage was set.
    In 1879, George B. Selden, a young Rochester patent attorney with a
mechanical aptitude, worked out on paper a design for an internal
combustion engine, but had never perfected it in operation. In spite of
that shortcoming, in 1896 a patent was granted to him for the engine.
Meanwhile, Olds, Duryea, Winton, and Haynes had begun to produce motor
cars. Of that group, Olds had achieved the most success. In 1899, Selden
sold his patent rights to the Columbia and Electric Vehicle Company,
where it lay waiting until the gasoline automobile industry began to
flourish. Then, suddenly, royalties were demanded of the auto makers.
    R.E. told the company board, "This claim is preposterous. Why should
we pay royalties when Selden didn't even make a test car upon which the
patent is based?" However, several of the board members felt that by
buying into the Selden patent, the entire business of the manufacture of
autos could be retained by the few existing firms. Henry Ford agreed
with R.E. that the patent claims were unenforceable, and should be
ignored, and fought in court if need be.
    The companies that had already given in to Selden formed a group
called the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers. In a vote
at the Olds board meeting, over R.E.'s vigorous opposition, the board
voted to join the ALAM. Ten manufacturers sent representatives to New
York, where the royalty was negotiated down from 5% to 1.25%. The Selden
patent dispute carried on until a US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed a
lower court decision in 1911, calling the Selden patent invalid on
several points. So, in the end, Olds and Ford were proven right.

    Olds had never been in a wealthy family as a child, in contrast to
many of his associates and backers, particularly the Smiths. Frederick
and Angus Smith were raised in wealth, and had associated with other
young men of similar standing. Soon, they longed to build something
other than a cheap car for the masses- they wanted the prestige of
building a European-style classy, showy, big car for the elite.  They
wanted the honor, the prestige of having the type of company that made
cars that sold for ten times what the Runabout cost. The younger Smiths
influenced the father, and before long, talk was afoot of dropping the
Runabout and making a larger car.
    R.E. could not understand the reasoning, having a few short years
ago gone the opposite route in simplifying the company's offering, and
with considerable success. When R.E. confronted the others about the
course, they showed him an article from Country Life in America, one of
the day's leading periodicals:

    "The light car is not capable of the excessive speeds that its
heavier brother finds easy. It has not the ability to climb hills at
speed, but must grind up grades steeper than the average on the
intermediate or low-speed gears. It has not the reserve of power that
enables the owner of the heavy touring car to enjoy the scenery of all
parts of the country regardless of road conditions or steep climbs. It
cannot be depended upon to carry its passengers over all sorts of roads
and sometimes demands assistance to overcome obstacles met with. It is
more liable to receive serious injury from a drop into a gully or any
other sudden and severe strain."

    Factual and logical errors of the above notwithstanding, and in
spite of the torture tests that the Runabout had passed with flying
colors, the big-car group was sure that they had chosen the right path.
By the same token, R.E. was certain that catering to wealthy sportsmen
was not his calling. He knew that if the common man had autos, then
improved roads would follow, and that the benefits to communications and
transportation would be spread over all the land, not just to benefit
the few already-wealthy. R.E. was prepared to part company if the board
did not wish to abide by his vision in the upcoming year of 1904.
    Despite what seem to be convincing arguments made by R.E. in favor
of continuing the status quo, the board voted in favor of producing a
luxury car. K kind of cars that he wanted to be building, and free rein
over the company. After mulling the offer over in the remote northern
parts of Michigan, he got a telegram:
    "ALL SIGNED UP. RETURN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. THE COMMITTEE."
He had found an enterprise, or rather, it had found him, that suited him
to a tee. Upon his return to Lansing, he was presented with an agreement
that offered him $260,000 out of a total of $500,000 worth of the new
company if he agreed to become the manager of the company. Eleven
Lansing men collected the other $240,000: R. Shettler, E.F. Peer, Hugh
Lyons, Elgin Mifflin, Chas. P. Downey, James J. Baird, Edward A.
Turnbull, B.F. Davis, E.J. Porter, J. Edward Roe, and W.H. Porter.
    This sort of backing, this overwhelming show of support and virtual
vindication of all of his trials from the earliest pre-dawn fiasco to
the resignation from the Olds Motor Works, was more than he had hoped
for, and all that he needed. Capitalizing on the Olds name and
reputation, they founded the "Reo Motor Car Company," in August 1904,
using Mr. Olds' initials to form the name. Quite conveniently, the Greek
verb reo also means "to flow" or "to run."
    Their competitors were the likes of Oldsmobile (of course), Pearce
in Buffalo, Alexander Winton's firm, John Maxwell, a former employee of
R.E., now building cars for the Northern Company, Henry Ford, and
several other smaller manufacturers. He knew that he needed a quick
start in providing a small, light, simple, and affordable car again. A
factory was soon being built on his own land near the railroad tracks on
the south side of Lansing, including a circular test track with banked
corners. He selected as chief engineer Horace Thomas, an associate who
had also resigned from the Oldsmobile company at the time of the great
division. Horace was easily persuaded to leave his new position as an
engineer in a company back East to work with Olds again.
    The new car had to be able to traverse the rural roads between towns
and states, as the public was no longer content to use the auto for
around-town transportation. Thus, high ground clearance would be needed.
In order to travel at night, a source of illumination would be
necessary. Entrance and egress of the vehicle was to be made easier by
use of a wide, well supported board, a design later to be known as the
running board. Men and women alike found this innovation to most
beneficial. Steering was to be performed by a steering wheel rather than
a tiller, to more easily accommodate heavier drivers. Protection from
the weather was considered a top priority, but would have to be
contrived in a lightweight and low-cost apparatus. The folding canvas
top was devised as the solution.
    Drawings were made for the patterns for the new pieces. Since the
factory was nowhere near ready for occupation, R.E. called upon a
friend, Gottlieb Reutter, who managed a food factory just getting into
operation. R.E. talked him into leasing enough floor space to provide
temporary housing until his own factory could be set in operation. Just
2 months from the day he took over as the new company's manager, the
initial Reo sample car was ready for testing, the first of millions to
follow.
    This 5-passenger Reo model, with side doors, did indeed "run." the
engine was a flat opposed twin, hidden under the front seat. A crank on
the vehicle's side started the motor. Tanks for oil, water, and gas were
under the hood. Construction was as light as possible while still sturdy
enough to take the punishment doled out on the rural roads. R.E. tested
the first car himself. Now, instead of issuing jeers as he passed, the
populace would wave and wish him luck. The car withstood the tests well,
even after branching out to the tortuous country "roads" of the day, in
the most inclement weather.
    Orders were made for materials sufficient to make 1,000 cars, and
efforts began to find dealers. Even before production began, the
familiar New York team of Owen and Rainey telegraphed to offer their
assistance, suggesting they be considered for the New York dealership.
Associates and friends made over the years rallied to support Mr. Olds,
and to climb aboard the new bandwagon; finding dealers was not
difficult.
    Meanwhile, back at Oldsmobile, the luxury car enjoyed a limited sale
for some time, but the company was soon to be sold to General Motors.
Once GM took charge, they wisely decided to return to making small
affordable cars that sold well in large numbers, further evidence that
R.E.'s course of action was right for the times.
    Reo cars began production on the 1st day of 1905. 125 men showed up
for work on that holiday, many of them his own former workers during his
reign at Oldsmobile. R.E. urged dealers to arrange for parades into
their local towns, which Reo owners were usually glad to be a part of.
This served to drum up interest, and thus sales, and also to make
drivers keenly aware of different road conditions. Clever community
organizations, clued to the fact that drivers prefer to go where the
roads are good, embarked on road improvement projects.

- ---Discovery of Daytona Beach as a proving ground
    Mr. Olds personally delivered a Reo to his agent in Jacksonville,
FL, in part to tour the area and view some property near Daytona Beach
which he was considering for purchase. He tested the car at
Jacksonville, then decided to drive it to Daytona beach. With no road
available, he had to use a Clyde Line boat to Sanford via the St. Johns
River. The skipper of the boat, being fearful of having gasoline aboard,
insisted that R.E. drain the gasoline. Fearing that gas might not be
available at the landing of his destination, the quick-thinking R.E.
placed a bucket under the engine and drained the WATER from the
radiator. Like many of the day, the skipper knew little of gasoline, and
was easily convinced that the car was now safe for travel. Much to the
amazement of the boat crew, R.E. easily fired up the car the next day
and drove off to Daytona, across some thirty miles of sand.
    There, the hard, flat sand at low tide lent itself very nicely to
speed testing, and R.E. was amazed at the speeds that he could attain.
Word soon spread that Daytona beach was a perfect place for speed tests.
    Back in Lansing, the factory was proving already too small for
production needs. At the end of the first year, Reo total sales came to
$1,374,000, which paid off the $260,000 in stock that R.E. had been
given, and still paid a 10% dividend. R.E. was now dreaming of
delivering Reos all over the world.

    Once the first 800 foot building was completed, plans began for
another building to house the incoming materials and parts. A third
building for the heat treatment processes was soon needed. This
fledgling science was making possible parts which were far superior to
simple cast iron or plain low-carbon steel components of the early steam
engines. Next, a tool room was readied, where the necessary precision
production tools were fashioned or reconditioned.

    Vehicles were now being assembled en mass from supposedly identical
parts, but there is always some variation in the manufacturing process.
Thus, an inspection department was formed to measure parts to the
ten-thousandth of an inch, to ensure that the pieces would fit and
function properly. Faulty components were spotted and disposed of. Each
car was so well assembled and created that it was ready to drive when it
left the assembly line, which was rather a novel way of making machines
at the time.
    The testing department was added, where a crew of workers and
engineers performed exhaustive testing on all manner of components for
the cars. Each part was subjected to tests to ensure that it could
easily perform its task under the most stringent operating conditions.
    Growth of the business required a shipping department, where the
cars were crated to withstand the rigors of the journey to the far
corners of the Earth. Of course, such a large organization would need an
administration building to house the management divisions.
    When all that was finished, the Reo company had some 72 acres of
floor space built within a few years, housing thousands of highly
skilled men working in unison. With production increasing regularly,
gross annual sales in excess of fifty million dollars were soon enjoyed.

- ---Other businesses sprang forth to feed the demand
    R.E. realized that more could be done to trim expenses and keep
costs down. He found it expedient, usually, to subcontract a great deal
of the parts production to outside firms. On making a tour through the
plant one day, he noticed a lack of activity on one of the production
lines. On inquiring as to the reason for this, the foreman explained
that they had run out of a certain fastener. R.E. checked into the
matter, and found that the maker had also been supplying his
competitors, and thus his shipment had not arrived on time. Aware that
it was ridiculous for the entire line to halt for want of one fastener,
and finding that they were spending thousands of dollars for these
parts, he decided to establish his own supplier. Soon, the Michigan
Screw Company was founded, with R.E. Olds as president. One more problem
solved, and the cost of each car shaved by some small amount. Similarly,
the Atlas Drop Forge Company was later organized by Mr. Olds, and the
directors again made R.E. president of the company.  Each of these
companies took some time to show a profit, but in the end proved to be a
wise move.

- ---The Presidential Reo ride
    Meanwhile, as per usual, Mr. Olds continued his publicity
activities. Many throughout the land still did not take the automobile
seriously. A popular figure endorsing the contraption by enjoying a tour
in a car would do wonders to enhance the automobile's reputation.
President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt was very popular, and Mr. Olds
found out that Teddy had never taken a public automobile ride... and set
about making it happen in a Reo. When Roosevelt was in Lansing for
Michigan State College's semi-centennial celebration, the opportunity
was ripe. On the big day, R.E. had several cars on hand for the parade,
and at the critical moment, he offered his services to the President's
entourage. Teddy was delighted, and climbed into the back seat of the
Reo. Aware of the Selden patent snafu, the President inquired of R.E. if
this car was a licensee or an independent. Mr. Olds indicated that his
company, unlike the Oldsmobile company at that time, was an independent.
This elicited a smile from the President...
    R.E., wearing a derby hat in contrast to the formal top hat that was
the norm that day, climbed aboard to drive the new Reo. Imagine the
pride he felt as he drove down the same streets where the townsfolk had
once scoffed at his experiments, and now the crowd waved and cheered for
the first public automobile ride for an American President in a
Lansing-built automobile.

    The President's very public ride did much to convert those who still
thought the automobile was just a passing fad. Others also helped the
cause. Paint and varnish magnate Charles J. Glidden, in an effort to
introduce the rural folks to the new breed of automobiles, arranged the
Glidden Tours. Drivers were recruited to follow a pre-arranged route,
through the back country towns, offering prizes for best performance.
R.E. saw the benefit, and participated in the early tours.
    One such tour covered about a thousand miles, from New York to
Bretton Woods, NH. Beyond the big city, neither the roads nor the
townsfolk were nearly as civilized as the city drivers were used to...
The populace was still not convinced that the automobile could be
trusted. Eight drivers were fined a sum of $120.00 for having the
audacity to blast through town in excess of 10 mph. (How they determined
speeds in those days, one has to wonder.) Newspaper reports bore the
likes of: "The lives and property of a perfectly helpless people have
been seriously menaced, the laws have been willfully disregarded, and
for no earthly reason other than to afford amusement to a lot of perfect
strangers." (Which brings to mind the movie "The Wild One".)
    While the Glidden tourists were spreading sales to some, to others
they were still naught but a menace. Farmers would stand at the entrance
to a lane, threatening any who dared to trespass across their property.
One tour woman became trapped under her car after it broke through a
bridge. Another was tossed out, landing on her head, while riding with
her husband. Another tourist hit a telephone pole, resulting in a broken
collarbone. By the time the lot had reached Bretton Woods, they were
ready to be done with it. Such a trip could be made in under two days
with favorable conditions, but between the bad road conditions and the
hostilities of the folks encountered along the way, this tour ran on for
days.

    In 1907, Mr. Olds began to think about branching out more
enthusiastically into foreign sales. A trip was made to Europe to study
the possible demand for cars there, talking to dealers in London, Paris,
and Berlin. During this time, Olds was regarded as the father of mass
production. Henry Ford's extremely popular Model T has in some ways
overshadowed Mr. Olds' efforts in this area, with few nowadays being
aware that it was not Mr. Ford who pioneered the idea of the assembly
line. Factory output figures show that during 1903, 5000 Oldsmobiles
were produced, compared to 1708 Fords. In fact, it was not until seven
years later, in 1910, that the Ford factory matched the output of the
Olds lines.
    In 1907, the major auto manufacturers were Reo, Oldsmobile, Buick,
Maxwell, and Ford. Hundreds of other companies had started and failed;
more were yet to come. Of those five main competitors in 1907, all but
the Maxwell survived the two great wars and two major depressions to
remain extant in the late 1940's. In a 1907 ad, Motor Age carried the
following ad, a far cry from today's adverting methods:

      "REO 4-seat Runabout  $675.00
Four people; 57 miles on 1&3/4 gallons of gasoline. That was the record
(from Chicago to Cedar Lake, Inc., October 18th- the rain coming down in
sheets). And the REO RUNABOUT was the car that made it. 628 miles, 4
passenger; $3.38 per passenger. The REO RUNABOUT also made this record
and won first prize gold medal in the famous six day New York Economy
test. REO 5-passenger Touring car.......$1250.
    2-passenger Runabout............650.
    4-passenger Runabout............675."

    The Reo car company continued to expand and prosper. The stock, in
high demand, rose in value rather quickly. The men who made fortunes on
their investments were those who believed in R.E. Olds and his business
sense so strongly that they were willing to give him controlling
interest in the new company if only he would be the manager. Even as
early as 1908, Mr. Olds saw that the industry's next logical step would
be the consolidation of some of the smaller companies into a larger
firm, to eliminate duplication of effort, and minimize costs. Having
overseen the development of the auto industry to this level, R.E. felt
that the need was no longer there for pioneering activities at which he
had been so adept.

- ---Ford a part of GM?---
    It almost came to be, that General Motors was formed from a group
including Ford. William C. Durant, more salesman than mechanic, took
over the Buick company in 1903. In that year, a total of 17 Buicks were
produced. A former carriage maker, Durant dreamed of making a great
automobile empire. Production totaled 28 for the next year, and 2,295
Buicks were made in 1907, but this was still short of Durant's
expectations. He wanted to combine with other companies, and make a
larger more influential firm, perhaps the greatest automaker in the
world. And that he did.
    He decided that the ideal combination of companies would be Buick,
Reo, and Ford. This was not unlike R.E.'s line of thinking at the time,
and so he agreed to attend a meeting of the company leaders at the
invitation of Benjamin Briscoe, an associate of Mr. Durant. All agreed
that such a move would have many benefits, but financing seemed to be
the stumbling block. Briscoe felt that financing could be obtained from
the Morgan interests, and so all were invited to New York to meet with
that group.
    R.E. and Henry Ford had long known each other, since Fords visits to
the Oldsmobile factory began around 1902. Both were individualists.
After a number of unproductive meetings with the Morgans, Ford suggested
to Olds that the two of them sell their companies, turn the whole thing
over to the new board of directors, and retire. This was a plan that
R.E. could embrace. He had been thinking about retirement anyhow. He had
seen to it that his stockholders were repaid handsomely; he felt the
industry no longer needed his influence.
    Each man decided that his company was worth $4 million, a very large
fortune in those days of $1 dinners. Even though the Morgans had the
wherewithal to cover such a settlement, when the two men announced that
upon consummation of the deal, they planned to retire, the Morgans lost
interest. They would back the venture only if Henry Ford and Ransom Olds
stayed on as managers. Mr. Olds was not at all pleased with that
prospect. He wanted to be out of the game completely, or in control. The
bad taste of the experience at the Olds Motor Vehicle Co. had never left
him.
    Neither side would give in. Durant, realizing that neither Ford nor
Olds would ever see fit to join him, pursued another course; he took
over the Cadillac company. That being still not enough to form the size
company he wanted, he began to look for others to join him. The
Oldsmobile company seemed ripe, having fallen onto difficult times due
to poor policy decisions in the absence of Mr. Olds. Durant recognized
the value of the Oldsmobile name, however, and soon added Oldsmobile to
the clan. The Oakland car company was next to be acquired, and at that
point, in 1908, Mr. Durant was head of the newly formed General Motors
Corporation. And thus, only by a twist of fate, was GM formed from
Buick, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, and Oakland, rather than Buick, Ford, and
Reo.

    Olds began to give over more control of the company to others, and
prepare for the inevitable retirement. He began to seek out ways to
repay the community for the success that he had enjoyed. Keenly aware of
the value of thrift, he organized and was made president of the Capital
National Bank. R.E. would often ensure that a troubled borrower had
every opportunity to regain solvency before allowing the bank to take
action against him. At one point, Mr. Olds averted a run on the Peoples
State Savings Bank, of which he was chairman, by personally guaranteeing
all deposits.

- ---The influence spread far
    Many of those whom R.E. had taken on went on to use their expertise
to enhance the industry. Roy S. Chapin, driver of early cross-country
trips, joined with E.H. Thomas to produce the Thomas-Detroit car at a
factory in Detroit. They were joined by F.O. Bezner and Howard Coffin,
also from the Oldsmobile company. Chapin and Coffin later started the
Hudson Motor Car Company. John D. Maxwell, another Olds understudy,
joined up with Benjamin Briscoe to form the Maxwell-Briscoe Company,
then later produce the Maxwell automobile, providing transportation (and
comedic fodder) to the public for years. Another Olds employee, Ralph
Owen, formed his own car company, producing the Owen car. R.C. Hupp, an
Oldsmobile mechanic, formed his own Hupp Motor Car Company. For years,
the Hupmobile was quite a popular car.
    Smaller firms that supplied parts to Oldsmobile went on to prosper
and some started their own automaking companies. For example, when R.E.
ordered 2,000 transmissions from John & Horace Dodge, the profits and
the obvious high demand led them to increase their own scale of
manufacturing, and then to begin auto production themselves. Were it not
for Olds, would we have Dodge cars today?
    When Olds ordered 2,000 engines from Leland Manufacturing Company,
they jumped on the bandwagon; the Leland firm went on to become the
Cadillac Motor Car Company.    Large orders for upholstery & trim
similarly affected B.F. Everitt. He commenced to manufacturing cars as
the Wayne Auto Company, which later merged with John Maxwell's
enterprise. Soon, W.A. Metzger joined, as did Flanders from Ford, and
they produced the popular E-M-F car.
    Filling an Oldsmobile radiator contract got Benjamin Briscoe started
in the business, and in fact, even Henry Ford, a frequent visitor to the
Oldsmobile factory, was able to obtain financial backing only after R.E.
Olds had demonstrated that the business was viable in 1902. In 1903, he
formed his own Ford Motor Company.

    Most of the carriages in the country were being produced by the
Studebaker Carriage Company. As demand for auto bodies rose and that for
carriages slackened, Studebaker decided to join the auto industry by
purchasing the E-M-F plant. Thus, the E-M-F car became known as the
Studebaker. Upon that sale, John Maxwell dropped out and began his own
business, making the Maxwell car. He later joined with Chalmers, and
after that, the Maxwell-Chalmers company was bought by Chrysler. Everitt
went on to join the Rickenbacker Company.
    Ransom believed in sharing the automotive market rather than trying
to dominate it. Perhaps he wanted others to use their innovation and
ingenuity in myriad ways to gradually improve the technology. He was not
interested in being head of a monopolistic empire in the industry. He
would gladly assist employees who felt that they could better make their
mark on the industry by starting their own company. The more
competition, the greater the advances that could be made.
    Without R.E. Olds' influence, his sound business judgment and the
ability to play the press, how much longer would acceptance of the auto
have taken? Would Ford have obtained financing before getting
discouraged and giving up? Directly or indirectly, R.E. was instrumental
in the formation of the most influential car makers in the country:
Ford, Dodge, Cadillac, Maxwell, Studebaker, etc. This is a legacy that
few today are aware of.

- ---Olds gives back to the community
    One of R.E.'s proudest accomplishments was the Reo Speedwagon, which
debuted in 1910. The truck boasted improvements in areas such as brakes,
tires, ignition system, transmission, and it had a self-starter.
Instantly successful, sales caused Reo stock to shoot up, with dividends
sometimes reaching 40% or even 50%. And, improvements were still being
made. The company was now worth $50 million, quite a step up from the $4
million that R.E. had suggested to the Morgan financiers only a few
years earlier.

    At a New York Automobile Manufacturer's Banquet, a citation was read
honoring Mr. Olds:
- --------------------------------------------------------
              DECORATION OF
                R.E. OLDS
    PRESIDENT, REO MOTOR CAR COMPANY
                   ----
      NATIONAL AUTOMOBILE CHAMBER OF
              COMMERCE, INC.
      ANNUAL DINNER, HOTEL COMMODORE,
                  NEW YORK

MR. OLDS- As Granddaddy to the Oldsmobile and Father to the Reo- your
name has been carved on the cornerstone of our Industry.

In the Great Drama of Transportation your Productive Genius has played a
conspicuous part.

You have been a generous contributor to the Universal Congestion of
Traffic.

The whole world understands today the S.O.S., R.E.O. means- Come Quick
with the Speedwagon. So why should you worry about whose car occupies
the Dusty Corner set apart for Antiquated Horseless carriages.

The progress you have made stands out as a national exhibit within
itself.

Day by Day in Every Way you have endeavored to make your car better and
better.

At the same time you have carefully preserved many of the original lines
and features of the by-gone age.

Your accomplishments, if we may be permitted to speak of them as such,
have been achieved modestly and we understand not without considerable
pecuniary advantage.

But after all these years of solitary confinement and isolation it is a
real pleasure to see that you continue annually to produce a great
"masterpiece" and to note that you still remain practically unknown (as
far as asking aid is concerned) to any of our distinguished American
Bankers.

As yachtsman we hear you always keep well within the three mile limit.

We create you a Veteran of the Legion of Satisfied Pioneer
Manufacturers.
                                   Charles Clifton,
                                              President.
- --------------------------------------------------------

    Mr. Olds' interests & investments had become so complex and time
consuming by 1912 that he formed the R.E. Olds Company to manage his
estate and that of his family. Essentially a trust company, it employed
an attorney, Mr. Charles E. Ecker, two vice-presidents, a secretary and
treasurer, a superintendent of buildings, and an auditor. R.E. later
formed the philanthropic Ransom Fidelity Company, endowed with a
starting fund of over a million dollars. Mr. Olds was instrumental in
developing a large hotel opposite the state Capitol, which was named
after him; the Hotel Olds.
    In 1930, at age 66, Mr. Olds felt that his contributions had been
made, and that it was time to retire. Yet, in the midst of the Great
Depression, 1934, Reo stockholders called upon R.E. to again take on an
active managerial position. The Michigan Manufacturer and Financial
Record stated on April 21, 1934:

"Mr. Olds is in the saddle again and will undoubtedly apply his
wonderful engineering and executive ability to make the automobile
manufacturing property, whose name is composed of his initials, a
continued success. He attacks his job at age 70. He is the one gentleman
who enjoys the return to being in the saddle. We hope he will, because
his control over the Reo Automobile Company means a great deal to the
industry, and above all it means a great deal to the fine city in which
it is located."

    Interesting to note that they twice used the term "in the saddle"
meaning "in active control," about the man who made the saddle (and the
harness) practically obsolete.
    On studying the market conditions, R.E. decided that passenger
automobile development had reached a plateau, and that concentrating on
trucks and busses would make more sense. In fact, the truck and bus
business was doing so well that the Reo Company decided to gradually
drop production of the passenger cars. By 1937, sure that the company
was solvent and operating smoothly, R.E. retired for the last time as
Chairman of the Board.

    In an article in Banker's Home Magazine, R.E. once revealed what he
believed was the single most significant factor to his success, writing:
    "My father and mother endowed me with the principles of the Golden
Rule. To live and let live, to deal with men as I would like to be dealt
with if I were in their places.
    When I was able to see enough daylight ahead to support a wife, it
was my good fortune to marry a devoted, Christian-principled girl.
    We have heard a great deal recently about the troubles between labor
and management. If all, on both sides, were Christian-principled men, do
you suppose we would hear of so much trouble between them? I think not.
    In my acquaintance with the business world, I have been brought into
contact with thousands of manufacturers and businessmen from Maine to
California, I find that over ninety percent of them are Christian men.
    I am not in favor of forcing religion on anyone. Whether any man,
woman, or child should become a church member or a Christian is strictly
for that person to decide, but I do believe that we should use our
influence to get them to attend church, to know the truth, and to see
what the church is actually doing for the world and for people of this
land of ours.
    All the good there is in life for me is the good that I can do the
world. I could have retired years ago, but the joy I get in business is
to furnish a livelihood for men who want to help themselves honestly. My
greatest satisfaction has been that my plants have furnished employment
to thousands of men who are buying homes, educating their children, and
enjoying the ordinary comforts of life along with the rest of us."

    R.E. never forgot a friend. In 1887, when the Olds Gasoline Engine
Works was in financial crisis, a loan from Professor R.E. Kedzie at
Michigan State College was instrumental in surviving the adversity. The
loan was soon repaid in full, but the favor returned in kind 30 years
later. Dr. Frank S. Kedzie, son of Prof. Kedzie, was president of the
same school, when the engineering building was destroyed by fire. The
school faced the loss of many students, for little fundage was available
to replace the facility. R.E. Olds came to the rescue, and on June 01,
1917, the R.E. Olds Hall of Engineering was dedicated. The cost, some
$120,000, was more than 120 times the amount once borrowed from the
elder Kedzie. Mr. Olds later built a large, three-story building, "Olds
Science Hall," for Kalamazoo College, of which he was a trustee. And
these gifts were but a portion of a long string of similar
contributions.
    Seeing that many older persons retiring in the Daytona Beach area
had but meager pensions for income, Mr. Olds purchased a 187 room hotel
on 4.5 acres of land. He had it remodeled and fitted to care for the
needs of religious workers. The purpose of the non-profit Olds Hall was
"to furnish and provide retired Ministers and other Christian Workers a
permanent home sanctuary at low cost during the period of their
retirement." Mr. Olds always believed in doing unto others as he would
have others do unto him.

    We conclude with a quote from a letter written by C.M. Burdick,
R.E.'s private secretary for many years, which was among the 33 pound
compilation presented to R.E. on his 80th birthday celebration banquet
at the Lansing Rotary Club...

"'Tis said, when e'er a babe is born, the fairies come to bless
That life with gifts which will insure its future happiness.
And so, perchance, on June the Third, in eighteen sixty-four,
They gathered by a crib to look the latest Olds boy o'er.
"I'll give him genius," said the first. "A chariot he'll create,
Propelled by fire, its speed and power shall enter man's estate;
The whole world shall be moved thereby, and millions learn his
 name,
Then he shall know his work is good, and feel the thrill of
 fame."

                           ---The End---
- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #355
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