To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca@INTERNET1 @ ABTLAB
Date:	11/04/96 11:40:36 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #353


oldsmobile-digest         Tuesday, 5 November 1996      Volume 01 :
Number 353


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:33:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding

At 12:03 PM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I was wondering if it would be worth it, when the time comes, when I
rebuild >my engine (400) rebore it out to a 425 or a 455?  Can it be
done?  Just curious.

While I think boring out to a 455 is a bit beyond the capacity of that
block, I do know that Mondello recommends a set of stock or oversized
350 pistons, which apparently have a compression-height close enough to
the late-400 to be used in that motor (the 400's pistons are smaller
than the 350's). I think you get somewhere around a 420cid by doing
this.

Check in the Mondello catalog for the details.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:02:07 -0400
Subject: Spec Edition Hurst Formula WS6

>
>For those of you interested, Hurst is considering producing a special
WS6 >car with a Lingenfelter 400 hp 350.  From what I gathered from the
Car Craft >article, it looks like it would be made like a Firehawk.
Anyways, it runs >a projected 13.2, with the possibility to dip into the
12s.  Not bad, just >what we need to kick the possible 6.1 Liter Cobra's
ass...  If you'd like >this car to go into production call
888/4-FIREBIRD >All the details are in the LAtest Car Craft. > I saw
this on the F-body list and thought it was interesting that Hurst is
getting back into making special cars. Maybe then.......there is hope
for a new Hurst/Olds?????? I sure hope so. - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason
Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu) Sports
Administration graduate student at Kent State University 88 Camaro
Iroc-Z/28...see it in the December issue of Chevy High Performance 80
Olds 4-4-2  W-30.... see it at http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:51:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

>Olds is the only maker I know that was intelligent about this.
>Why would anyone want the light under the hood to come on when the hood
>is opened during the day?

Um, the same people who wired the trunk light to do this?  :-)  Anyway,
the underhood light does indeed come on only with parking or headlights.
Its supply wire is brown, the color for the parking light circuit. (In
contrast, the trunk light wire is orange, tapping into the always-hot
circuit.)

>There is a switch (mercury?) in the light itself so that it doesn't
turn >on when the parking lights or headlights are on if the hood is
closed.

Yes indeedy...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:00:25 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

> Now, the government has license to come onto YOUR property and remove
> YOUR property (car) if it doesn't meet the standards that THEY have
> imposed.  Pretty pathetic when you stop and think about it, isn't
> it?

Bob Handren wrote:

> I trust we all will consider the problems elected officials are
causing > that degrade our rights for old cars and other subjects and
express our > concern at the ballot box.

As always, there are two sides to this coin.  And this is a problem I
have to deal with so I'll be very interested in comments.

How would you propose to handle the following situation:

A person or persons spend a princely sum to live in a nice and VERY
residential neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on blocks in
 his front lawn?  (It happens)

Do community standards always take a back seat to individual rights?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:56:52 -0400
Subject: Re: I'm back...

>> Well, it took a week to all-but-fully recover from our office move,
>> but things seem to be up and running again for the most part.
>
>Oh, there you are.  I thought you moved to another planet.

You can thank the phone company, which cut our phone service to the
old place two days too early and failed to connect our new service
until the middle of the next week, forcing us to spend two days in
here walking around with cellphones. If we did move to another planet
maybe we wouldn't have to use Ameritech...

Wait! No! That was a joke! I was just kidd

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:12:48 -0400
Subject: RE: '71 Cutlass Fenders

I was told by my local Olds dealer that you couldn't get 70-72 front
fenders. (from GM at least). I was/am also looking for a front left
(drivers side) fender. Found a guy that had 3 right ones. (he was kinda
strange and not to interested in selling however)

Mitch Delk
Huntsville Alabama
'71 Cutlass "S"

>----------
>From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
>Sent: 	Monday, November 04, 1996 11:15 AM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	'71 Cutlass Fenders
>
> >>1971
>Oldsmobile Service Manual. If you know where I can get a trunk lid let
>me know. I also need a left front fender. Luckily my right fender is
>rust free, those are harder to get.<<<
>
>You should be able to walk down to your local Olds dealer and order
one. > Hurry, they are probably getting scarcer. > >Bob Handren
OCA/OCF# 7728 >'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible >Oviedo, FL >
>Handren Associates, Inc. >FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
>Laser/Optical Radiation Safety >(407)365-6385 > > > > >

------------------------------

From: "Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:20:54 -0400
Subject: RE: 66 Rear

OK Bob, I have a question...

I have a '71 Cutlass with a 10 bolt 2.56 peg leg. My plan was/is to find
a fully assembled A body posi unit with high 2.?? to low 3.?? and hope
it holds up.

Would I be better off buying an Auburn or ??? (aftermarket) carrier and
ring set and having it built up? In essence, just use my
housing/axles/breaks and have a new gear unit installed?

My car will have a 260ish horse 350 4bbl and a TH350.
I see a lower gear as being the best way to get a quicker car and If I
don't go over 3.08, I could still cruise the highway and it wouldn't be
too awful hard on the whole drive train.

Mitch Delk

>----------
>From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
>Sent: 	Monday, November 04, 1996 11:15 AM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	66 Rear
>
>>>>>>From: kdporter@midwest.net (kdporter)
>Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:22:29 -0400
>Subject: Question on rear end
>
>I have a rear end out of a 66-67,B-O-P the casting on the rear is dated
early >66 the ring gear is dated late 66.The rear end is a 3.55 posi,the
center >section has a "N" on it.I need to know if it is a pon.buick or a
olds? The >letters Z-H are stamped in the left axle housing.   thanks
>kdporter >kdporter@midwest.net<<<<<<<< > >Look at the rib(s) cast into
the side of the center section.  If there is >only one rib it is a "B"
Buick rear.  If there are two converging (towards >the front of the car)
ribs it is a "P" Pontiac rear.  The single rib rears >are much weaker
than the two rib versions.  Among other things the number and >size of
the pinion gear splines are smaller. > >The 3.55 posi is almost
certainly a two pinion posi, while good it is not >extremely strong.  It
is also a cone type posi unit. If that is shot it >cannot be rebuilt in
the same fashion as the plate/friction type.  They can >however be made
functional with a little work.  The 4-pinion posi case is >pretty good,
a lot stronger.  You can not (legally) install anything lower >than 3.55
gears.  The case changes for the 3.90 and lower gears (higher
>numerically). > >The '65 thru early '67 axels are also weaker.  I've
twisted my share. :-) > >I am quite familiar with these rears, If you
have any other questions please >email me direct. > >Bob Handren
OCA/OCF# 7728 >'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible >Oviedo, FL >
>Handren Associates, Inc. >FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
>Laser/Optical Radiation Safety >(407)365-6385 > >

------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:30:06 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

>A person or persons spend a princely sum to live in a nice and VERY
>residential neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
>street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on blocks
in >his front lawn?  (It happens) > >Do community standards always take
a back seat to individual rights?

I don't advocate slovenliness and an individual should have enough pride
and responsibility to take reasonable care of his own property with the
idea that he is part of a community, BUT the solution to the above
mentioned problem is if the community feels strongly enough about the
unsightliness of junkers sitting around, they could offer to buy them
and haul them away.

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:27:14 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

Mike Frederick wrote:

<SNIP>

> neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
> street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on blocks
in > his front lawn?  (It happens)

Uhhhh, that guy across the street would be me! But luckily, all my
neighbors are cows (literally) as we are smack in the middle of about
400 acres of farmland in the heart of the Cheesebelt

The farmers do ocassionally complain that the milk has an 'off' taste to
 it.....something about WD-40 leaching into the ground water supply!
:o

> Do community standards always take a back seat to individual rights?

If cows could vote, I'd be in jail!

Home Boy

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:45:24 -0400
Subject: Toronado 455 in a '68 442

Will the Toronado oil pan/pump/pickup fit in a '68 442 or will I need to
retain the original pan/pump/pickup when I install a Toronado 455?

Does the Toronado pan physically fit in a '68 442?

I realize I will need to install a new pump, but should I get one for a
Toronado or a 442? Or does it matter?  Are the pumps the same, but the
pickup is different?

Help!

Thanks,
Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:00:00 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Garage Advice Wanted

If you do buy halogen lights, avoid the cheapie $9-12 ones.  In
comparison to a Sears brand light ($20?), the Sears brand has a
stronger stand, and the outside runs cooler.  If I touch it, especially
the back side cooling fins, I just say ouch, and don't have a burn like
the cheapy always did. Both light well and are the 500 watt variety.

Fluorescent trouble lights are really nice!  Snap-on has/had a really
nice retractable one.

Skylights would be nice!  Although there better be one or two in the
house to appease your spouse!

David Brown  Mailto: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:54:00 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

Chuck Rowe wrote:
>
> I don't advocate slovenliness and an individual should have enough
> pride and responsibility to take reasonable care of his own property
> with the idea that he is part of a community,

Agreed.

> BUT the solution to the above mentioned problem is if the community
> feels strongly enough about the unsightliness of junkers sitting
> around, they could offer to buy them and haul them away.

Nice thought.  And if he refuses to sell?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:02:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
... after somebody else wrote:
> >Olds is the only maker I know that was intelligent about this.
> >Why would anyone want the light under the hood to come on when the
hood > >is opened during the day?

I wonder the reverse of this. What could they have been thinking? Seems
like not the best way of doing this...

> >There is a switch (mercury?) in the light itself so that it doesn't
turn > >on when the parking lights or headlights are on if the hood is
closed. > > Yes indeedy...

Which almost inevitably fails. I never did get the replacement from my
friendly GM dealer... the part numbers Bob Handren gave me a few months
back for these pieces were either no good up here or they didn't want to
bother getting it. Anyhow, the dealer was no help. I have had 4 or these
babies... every one of them a dud. I eventually jumped around the merc
switch, clumsily wired a little toggle switch into the hot circuit, and
now have a switchable underhood light, seemingly the most useful
solution of all.

Speaking of lights and trouble lights and such, I have a neat item that
is absolutely invaluable: a 12-volt trouble light that looks just like
the regular 120 volt version, with bulb in a shielded cage and a hook on
the end. The difference: you don't need a regular outlet; instead, you
just connect it to the car's battery with alligator clips that it is
terminated in. It throws a good amount of light and is a permanent
resident in the trunk. Inexpensive too, if I see another I'm going to
grab it.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:59:50 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

Gregory G. Kalkhoff wrote:
>
> If cows could vote, I'd be in jail!

If they could fly, you'd have an even bigger problem on your hands!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:08:05 -0400
Subject: Heater Core Woes

Put the '64 away for the winter yesterday (just in time too - the
snowflakes were starting to fly!). Discovered in the course of it's last
 drive around town that there was no heat. Checked the hoses and manual
 and figured out that the input hose was very hot (ouch!) but the
output side was cool. Diagnosis: plugged core.

Now, I know what a big job it is to swap one of these out on a '64
A-body - - removing the inner fender and all - but I wonder if there
isn't a cheaper and easier fix. Anyone ever use that "CLR" stuff to
clean calcium, etc,.? I'm thinking... might it not have the same effect
in a heater core and open it up? Anyone ever done this?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:10:10 -0400
Subject: For Sale in Wash. Post

Hey everybody!

The Washington Post has a website and it's got sections like the print
edition.  There is a specific page for the Auto Classified ads at

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-adv/classifieds/autos/front.htm

You can search for cars by make/year/price/etc.  I did a search for all
Oldsmobiles listed as Antique/Classic.  Here's the list:


6 ads matched your search criteria. Ads 1 to 6 are displayed below.
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- OLDS--'74 Cutlass Supreme, 2dr, good cond., buckets, a/c, console,
$1600. 301-588-0301
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 02, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------
OLDS--'69 442. 400. auto. ac. ps. pb. tilt. Excel cond. Rust free body.
$7900/obo. Mark, 703-352-0722
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------
OLDS--'67 442 Ralley Rd, 400-4Spd, Restored. All Stock, Exc Cond.
Reduced for Quick Sale. $5990 Firm. VA dlr. 703-551-2733
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------
OLDS--'71 CUTLASS, 4dr, 98k mi, runs great, $2100. 703-527-0961
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------
OLDS--'71 Cutlass Convertible, 350 V8, original owner, VA state
inspected, great winter project, $4500. Call 703-478-6316
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------
OLDS '69 CUTLASS CONV

Good condition. $6500.

Call 540-253-5249

      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------


I also found this one in a regular Olds search:

OLDS--'87 442, auto, very clean, 49k miles, blue/grey, $8500/obo. Call
after 6:30pm.  540-364-1489
      This ad first appeared in The Washington Post November 01, 1996.
        -------------------------------------------------------------


Enjoy!
- --
                                                                 _
                             1971 Oldsmobile                     |\
Drew Senko                   Cutlass Supreme
.__====-_._____|_\______ senko@reston.ans.net           Convertible
[   ___  |-     |  ___  \ http://members.gnn.com/senko
=\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
______________________________________________________\_/____________\_/
_____

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:12:27 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

Badgeman@tcac.com wrote:

> problem is if the community feels strongly enough about the
unsightliness of > junkers sitting around, they could offer to buy them
and haul them away.

Exactly.  I felt like telling the city that if they thought my car was
so ugly, then maybe they could foot the bill to have it prettied up.
What a concept! :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:10:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>

> > >There is a switch (mercury?) in the light itself so that it doesn't
turn > > >on when the parking lights or headlights are on if the hood is
closed. > > > > Yes indeedy... > > Which almost inevitably fails. I
never did get the replacement from my > friendly GM dealer...

I've had 4 Olds with this item ('70 - '72) as well as a few friends that
had the same.
We NEVER had a problem with these...

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:19:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > > >There is a switch (mercury?) in the light itself so that it
doesn't turn > > > >on when the parking lights or headlights are on if
the hood is closed. > > > > > > Yes indeedy... > > > > Which almost
inevitably fails. I never did get the replacement from my > > friendly
GM dealer... > > I've had 4 Olds with this item ('70 - '72) as well as
a few friends that > had the same. > We NEVER had a problem with
these...

Sell me one!!! I'll take it!  :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:38:02 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Engine courtesy light

I see this requirement as a safety feature.  You might be pulled to the
side of a road, looking under the hood.  The parking lights help to show
 other drivers where your car is, and you could be around it somewhere,
 probably in a blind spot to you and other cars, instead of inside the
vehicle.

David Brown  Mailto: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
... after somebody else wrote:
> >Olds is the only maker I know that was intelligent about this.
> >Why would anyone want the light under the hood to come on when the
hood > >is opened during the day?

I wonder the reverse of this. What could they have been thinking? Seems
like not the best way of doing this...

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:46:30 -0400
Subject: today's issue of USA Today

I just wanted to let everyone know that there is an intersting article
in the Life section of today's copy of USA Today.  (Monday November
4th)It mentions a "race" from London to Brighton England with 46
vintage Oldsmobiles taking part in the race.  Also one small article on
a lady and her Curved Dash.  It seems that Oldsmobile had the biggest
presence among manufacturers.  Most are defunct automobile companies.
    Hope you get a chance to read it.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme


------------------------------

From: Chuck Rowe <badgeman@tcac.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:59:56 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

At 05:54 PM 11/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Chuck Rowe wrote:
>>
>> I don't advocate slovenliness and an individual should have enough
>> pride and responsibility to take reasonable care of his own property
>> with the idea that he is part of a community,
>
>Agreed.
>
>> BUT the solution to the above mentioned problem is if the community
>> feels strongly enough about the unsightliness of junkers sitting
>> around, they could offer to buy them and haul them away.
>
>Nice thought.  And if he refuses to sell?

Everything has a price. If the owner is foolish and/or stubborn, well,
it is his perogative. I really hesitate to interfer with individual
rights. There has been far too much tampering with those as it is. I
suppose if I lived next door to someone who maintained their property
like a dump I would have one of two options: tolerate it or move.

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:54:00 -0400
Subject: [none]

>On a related note, Drew Koba tells me that GM has original trunk rubber
 seals >which he claims are much better than the repro stuff.
Apparently the GM >stuff is much more softer and seals better.  It also,
of course, costs a lot >more but may explain why the '67s trunk doesn't
seal as well as it should.

>Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728


Bob,
I bought my trunk seal from GM when I first got my 442 back in '88.  It
was around $60 back then.  Durability and performance have been
excellent. Scott Mullen '70 442

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:04:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

> > > >There is a switch (mercury?) in the light itself so that it
doesn't turn > > > >on when the parking lights or headlights are on if
the hood is closed. > > > > > > Yes indeedy... > > FWIW, my Caddy has
the same feature: i.e., the under-hood curtsy :) light only works when
the hood is up *and* the running or headlights are on. And my '72, '77
and '88 Caddys were the same as well...

I wonder if this was a BOP/C feature (as opposed to the "other"
division)?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:31:28 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Resto  Tips  .....

Before you break the factory seal on the window, you should find out
what the real problems is.  A break in the seal, or rust hole, can be
easily repaired.  Been there, been leaked on, been frustrated . . .
ouch!

Remove the window trim with the special tool available from Eastwood
(800-345-1178; 4 tools for $11).  Scrub the area with a brush and a
small amount of detergent, allow to fully dry.  Use 3M's windshield
sealer or RTV to fix the broken seal.  If you have a vinyl top, the
stitching (or it's now absense), might be letting water leak in.

David Brown  Mailto: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Olds FAQ 2.0 at: http://www.en.com/users/thall/
                 ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- -----------
I bet a piano wire would work well. I need to stop my front windshield
from leaking. Is this a way to do that, use a wire to cut the seal and
then lift out the windshield. What would you use to reseal under the
glass, is there a kit?
Thanks
Reggie (69 Toronado)
jgoble@nishanet.com

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:25:34 -0400
Subject: I've got a bumper, etc.

Hello all,

Well, finally started using the parts Calais I bought for its intended
purpose.  Me and a friend sanded and primed the header panel, and that
plastic thingy underneath it to put them on my Cutlass.  My car now has
a bumper!  This was something that had been missing when I bought the
car. I've also got a rear sway-bar now.  Eventually, we'll paint the
header panel, but for now its a real lovely shade of light primer gray.
When it comes time to paint the panel, I'm gonna need to fill a few
small spots on the back edge.  Does anybody have any opinions on body
filler?  The panel I'm filling is just fiberglass.  I don't
particularly like bondo as I had a bad experience with it one time any
other brands?  Also, currently I've got a set of '81 (crosshatch
pattern), '83 (thin horizontal strips), and '8? (thick vertical strips)
grills (they call them "beaver teeth" here.  Opinions?  Which would
look best?  I don't have the proper ones for my '84, but somebody told
me they were dog-ugly onetime anyway.  I'm thinking about going with
the '83's.  I've decided not to use the chrome valve covers or headers
off of the other motor. The headers are pretty beat up on the bottom,
and I like the stock gold painted valve covers better.  I've now got a
spare 350 Rocket motor from the parts car sitting around.  From what
I've heard from a guy who knew the owner, it was a good running low
miles motor (they junked the car after going through 2 TH350's).  My
friend has a '50 F*rd 6.  We've been thinking about maybe "Oldsifying"
the '50.  Does anybody have any idea if a '73 Olds 350 would clear the
frame in a '50 F*rd?  There is certainly enough length, and enough
clearance by far against the body, but I'm not sure about the frame.
I've also heard that the 350 should bolt up to the original column 3
spd.  This would make for a FUN ride!  I'm not sure though, opinions?
Its either that, or hunt a tranny, and make another 350 Cutlass (but
thats been done before :-(  )  I want to do something ODD with the
motor!  I saw a VW bus with a 3.8l in it one time.  I want to do
something as unusual as that.  Also, the Calais had a full set of the
body color wheels (what is the name for them), but they were 15's. Is
this unusual?  All I've ever seen were 14's.   One last question, does
anybody have any experiences with replaceing the stock speedo/instrument
 panel with the calais instrument cluster (tack etc.)  Do they
interchange?  Are there any settings that would have to be changed?  The
 instrument cluster from the Calais is originally from a V-6 car and
mine has got a 350 in it, would it be way off?

Hmmm, it might be blasphemy, but maybe I could put the 350 in the '50
F*rd, and the 429 (see below) in the '81 Cutlass Calais.

'nuff for now, sorry for rambling,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl. 66k miles)
'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (350 4bbl. ? miles) {parts car}
'80 Rover 3500 (215 EFI V8 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429 4bbl. 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:27:00 -0400
Subject: Re: today's issue of USA Today


I just wanted to let everyone know that there is an intersting article
in the Life section of today's copy of USA Today...<snip>...It seems
that Oldsmobile had the biggest presence among manufacturers.  Most are
defunct automobile companies.
^^^^^^^
          Given some of the rumors about Oldsmobile's future, let's
          hope this isn't an omen!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:35:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 1964 F-85 Cutlass

Robert M. Nevins II wrote:
:I'm new to the Internet.  And this is my first interaction.  I have a
:1964 F-85 Cutlass, 2 door post sedan.  I haven't been able to find much
:information about this car, or it's collectable value.  Is there any
one :out there with any information about this particular car?  I've
been to :several car shows in Michigan and I'm yet to see another car
like mine.

you don't seen too many '64's on the road anymore (hell, you don't see
to many pre-70's Olds' period!).  The only ones that have any real
collector potential are 442's (only 2999 total 442's were made)and
convertibles.    Most 2 door post's were v6's, so if yours happens
to be a v8, then you have one that could be considered rare.  Although,
I consider all 64 F-85's to be rare simply because in the 10 years
I've had mine, I've seen a grand total of 3 other 64's on the road,
a 64 4door in norcross ga (seen it a couple times), a red '64
convertible here in athens, and another 4door late at night on I-95
somewhere...  My father went to the Olds show in Marietta a coupla
months ago and saw 3 442 converts...   They are very difficult to
locate in junkyards, too.  I know of exactly 1 yard in north georgia
that has any, and they have about 3.

the 442 was a parts bin special squeezed out the door as a
GTO-competitor. they basically took the B09 police option (290hp 330v8,
HD suspension) mated it with the already available 4speed, and dual
exhaust options, gave it a dual snorkel Air cleaner and a cam, rated it
at 310hp and called the 442.  3 small 442 badges indentified it on the
front fenders and on the trunk.  442's are easy to fake because they
were an option, had no special 3xxx Olds number or VIN range, and all
the parts (except the dual snorkel) were available already.  The 442's
were hot performers, even compared to its big brother the 65 400,  these
are Car Life reports on 442's and someone of the competition:

                     cid  hp    0-60      1/4et@mph
'64 Olds 4-4-2 4spd  330  310   7.4       15.6 @ 89
'64 GTO tripower     389  348   6.6       14.8 @ 99
'64 Dodge Polara 500 426  365   7.2       15.2 @ 89 (wedge, not hemi)
'65 Chevelle SS 4spd 396  375   6.5       14.9 @ 98
'65 Olds 4-4-2 A2    400  345   7.8       15.5 @ 89
'65 Olds 4-4-2 4spd  400  345   5.5       15.0 @ 98

64 F-85's came with either a 165hp v6, a 230hp 2bbl low comp. 330, or
a 290hp 4bbl high comp. 330.  You either got a 3spd manual, a 4 speed
manual, or the 2 speed jetaway automatic transmission.  f-85's were
base line models (coupes or sedans, 2 or 4 door),  the F-85 Cutlass's
were a notch up the lux ladder and usually had v8's and autos.

Mine is a 64 cutlass, I bought it stone stock, so if you have any
restoration questions, I might be able to help.  I've made some
reversible mods to made driving it more fun/safe/economical including:
adding front disks from a 70 cutlass, swapping the powerslide 2speed
for a th350, and swapped the old crappy rockchester 4GC for a new
Edelbrock AFB.  Keystone Raider 5 spoke mag wheels  too.  at one time
I swapped in a fast ratio steering box, but the flanges broke on it
once, so at a 4.5 lock to lock box now (I miss that 3.5 unit), the
original was about a 5.x

like I said earlier, the non-442, non-ragtops 64's aren't worth much,
I'd say a v8 cutlass in execellent condition could fetch maybe $4-5,
but most likely $3.

have a coupla pictures at http:/www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug/ under "my
cars".


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:37:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> I eventually jumped around the merc switch, clumsily wired a little
> toggle switch into the hot circuit, and now have a switchable
underhood > light, seemingly the most useful solution of all.

You should also be able to wire a hot to the lamp then use a pin switch
to ground it when the hood is opened.

> absolutely invaluable: a 12-volt trouble light that looks just like
the > regular 120 volt version, with bulb in a shielded cage and a hook
on...

Yeah.  Saw the 12V bulbs (look like regular house bulbs) at WalMart the
other day.  Just by switching the plug on a regular drop lamp to a
lighter plug or battery clips and you'd have the same thing.

In fact, maybe I'll put a floor lamp in the back of the Toronado...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:44:07 -0400
Subject: Pics

Hey Joe (Padavano),

Do you have pictures of your babies?
  > 66 442
  > 68 W-30
  > 69 H/O
  > 70 W-30

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Chris Sparks <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:48:02 -0400
Subject: Re: tic-toc-tac

What does the tic-toc-tac run for a 68 442 (non W-30)?

Any clues?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Syntac@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:19:02 -0400
Subject: Re: '68-72 Cutlass wanted

    Have a 1970 Cutlass in the Miami area---2 door hardtop. Looking for
about $2200?  Or close to it------all original

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your cows

> > neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
> > street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on
blocks in > > his front lawn?  (It happens) > > Uhhhh, that guy across
the street would be me! But luckily, all my neighbors are cows >
(literally) as we are smack in the middle of about 400 acres of farmland
in the heart of > the Cheesebelt > Greg Kalkhoff


Man, that sounds great, I look out the window and see brick walls, get
woken up in the morning by city buses roaring by ...
Now if you could get your Toro to run off milk instead of gas ...
BOVINE-POWERED ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:46:16 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

> How would you propose to handle the following situation:
>
> A person or persons spend a princely sum to live in a nice and VERY
> residential neighborhood only to discover one day the guy across the
> street brought home several donor-cars and has them sitting on blocks
in > his front lawn?  (It happens) > > Do community standards always
take a back seat to individual rights? > > The 66 Toro and Mike

The problem as I see it is that there isn't much of a community at all.
People live near each other mostly because of where they work, but a
community in the sense of people who depend on each other for the
essentials and pleasure of living is pretty well dead.  This is mostly
the result of our activities being determined by economics and commerce
rather than need and interest.  As a result (though it's a bit of a
chicken and egg thing), the state and its business/industry cronies has
developed an extremely elaborate structure (law, courts, police) to deal
with conflicts with two people who live near each other, but whose lives
never touch the other except when there is a problem (usually about
property).  This system is very hard for "normal" people to penetrate
(one reason why lawyers are paid so much) and its solutions (forcing
people to do something, fines, jail, executions) rarely bring the
results back to the community level, where the problem originated in the
first place.  The guy across the street hates you when his cars get
towed away and plots payback.  The notion of community standards is
usually what a politician thinks most people believe at the particular
time he/she is giving a speech or enacting policy.  Of course most can
be 51% which is pretty lousy for the 49%.   And in the above example it
involves aesthetics which is even more slippery.  I kind of like the
look of old cars lying around, but most people don't. 	Of course I
don't have a solution to how to deal with the lack of community except
for people to be reasonable and try to sort things out between
themselves.  Also, I you have relations with people (helping each other
out, whatever), you've got a vested interest to avoid conflict (i.e.
something to lose), so that when a problem arises there's a reason to
find a solution instead of just calling some "outside" authority to deal
with it for you. 	Blah blah blah ... sorry ... By the way, I'm not
really one to talk; I've had a running feud with my neighbour (an old
friend, in fact) over a shared driveway for the past year.  Nowadays
we're not talking to each other ... 	Love this Olds list ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:10:00 -0400
Subject: [none]

Does anybody out there own a Vericom 2000?  A friend of mine bought a
Vericom 200 accelerometer about 6 years ago.  It was an excellent
diagnostic tool, and should be in every serious tuner's tool
collection.  Now that I don't live near my buddy anymore, I want to buy
one of my own.  It is now called the Vericom 2000, and performs alot
more acceleration functions.
 However, it appears that you must buy a seperate version of it if you
want to measure deceleration G's, braking distance,  &cornering G's.
Check out their website at
http://members.aol.com/vcomputers/index.html    What I want to know is
if anyone has the updated VC2000 version of this device and what they
think of it.  Thanks. Scott Mullen '70 442

------------------------------

From: "Jason Hairston" <jth442@flash.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:29:37 -0400
Subject: test



------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:36:59 -0400
Subject: Deep GM Trivia

Each quarter GM sponsors a magazine called "Invention & Technology".
It's mostly industrial history with cool articles on all sorts of
mechanical and electromechanical advancements through the ages. For you
people who like history, this is cool

In the recent issue I learned part of story behind Delco:

Charles Kettering (formerly of NCR) was an all 'round smart guy who
invented the electric starter motor and sold 16,000 units to Cadillac.
When this got popular and he couldn't control the quality of the units
shipped under his label, but manufactured by subcontractors, he founded
Dayton Electronic Laboratories Co. or Delco. Eventually they were bought
by GM, but for a time in the late teens and early twenties they were
independent. At NCR, "Boss Kettering" was apparently a combination hard
a** and practical joker equally at home in the lab building stuff and
selling ideas to the suits who'd either bless or kill his inventions.

Trivial and tenuously olds-related, but I thought you'd enjoy learning
what Delco stood for. cf

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:47:48 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your cows

Graham Stewart wrote:

> Man, that sounds great, I look out the window and see brick walls, get
> woken up in the morning by city buses roaring by ...
> Now if you could get your Toro to run off milk instead of gas ...
> BOVINE-POWERED ...

Graham,

It IS great! Too bad I don't live there though as I am stuck here in
Milyuckee. If you go to Bryces page and look the registry, you will get
an idea of the place. No cows pictured, but they are all over...believe
me!

Just click on the http at the bottom on the signature line.

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                             See the Sparkmobile
AKA  "Sparky"                       http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Milwaukee, WI

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:07:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

At 11:37 AM 11/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Well I just replaced the courtesy light on the inner side of my
>hood.  The only way for the light to come on is with the head
>lights on.  Is this right?????  Seems a bit weird to me.
>
Not sure about your year (I don't think that's right). But on the 88-9?
model Cutlasses (or is that Cutli), that is the correct way. GM stated
that it used this method because if you were stranded at night looking
under your hood, your taillights would be on also giving more visibility
for cars approaching you from behind and ahead. Makes sense if you think
about it!!
************************************************************************
* *   __   _____ ____    ______
* *  / /_ |___  | ___|  / / ___|        Dave Isho
* * | '_ \   / / |     / /\___ \        davei@concentric.net
* * | (_) | / /| |___ / /  ___) |
HTTP://www.concentric.net/~davei/ * *  \___/ /_/  \____|_/  |____/
* *   ____                             _   _ _     _
* *  / ___| ___  _ __ __   __ ___ _ __| |_(_) |__ | | ___
* * | |    / _ \| '_ \\ \ / // _ \ '__| __| | '_ \| |/ _ \
* * | |___| (_) | | | |\ V /|  __/ |  | |_| | |_) | |  __/
* *  \____|\___/|_| |_| \_/  \___|_|   \__|_|_.__/|_|\___|
*
************************************************************************
*





------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:14:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

> On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> > Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > > Which almost inevitably fails. I never did get the replacement
from my > > > friendly GM dealer... > > > > I've had 4 Olds with this
item ('70 - '72) as well as a few friends that > > had the same. > We
NEVER had a problem with these...

This has got me curious as to other's experiences with these. I've
gotten a bunch of these out of junkyards and none has ever worked. In
taking them apart the problem is always the same - the little merc
switch capsule inside the light assembly corrodes and you lose
continuity. Interestingly, the trunk light on the '68 and probably
other years as well uses the same switch and I've gone thru three of
those before I got the one I have presently which still is working
(said with considerable trepidation...).

Kurt says he's never had a problem... is it just me? After all the
trouble I've had with these things I figured workable ones were like
gold...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:38:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On  4 Nov 96 at 18:07, Dave Isho wrote:

> Not sure about your year (I don't think that's right). But on the
> 88-9? model Cutlasses (or is that Cutli), that is the correct way.

On my '89 Cutlass Supreme, I had a really nifty underhood lamp.  I
really liked the design, and thought Olds should've put it on my '91
Quad442.  The lamp was a switched and movable unit, that had a
magnetic back.  You could take it out if its holder and move it
around the car.  I used it once while removing the right rear tire at
night.  The wire was on a pulley, so you could crank it back in when
you were done, and it held it in place under the hood.

Sometimes you don't miss things until they're gone....

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:36:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 1964 F-85 Cutlass

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Robert M. Nevins II wrote:
> I'm new to the Internet.  And this is my first interaction.  I have a
> 1964 F-85 Cutlass, 2 door post sedan.  I haven't been able to find
much > information about this car, or it's collectable value.  Is there
any one > out there with any information about this particular car?
I've been to > several car shows in Michigan and I'm yet to see another
car like mine.

Robert, first of all, welcome! I hope we can give you some assistance.

I've seen several posts in response to yours that said basically in
terms of collectibility there's not much to hope for with your car
since it's not a 4-4-2. That may be true in terms of high-dollar
collectibility but I'm partial to '64s and yours sounds like a neat
car. So don't be discouraged.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your car - history, general
condition, your experiences with it good or bad. How about a follow-up?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:02:55 -0400
Subject: RE: '70-72 Cutlass Fenders

Hi,
  Like I mentioned before on this page.  There is a '72 Cutlass
with god fenders (especially the driver's side, 3 minutes away from
my house.  I'm still taking requests.

Craig D.



Date:		Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:12:48 -0400
>From:	"Delk, Mitch S" <msdelk@ingr.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>To:	"'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject:	RE: '71 Cutlass Fenders
>
>I was told by my local Olds dealer that you couldn't get 70-72
front
>fenders. (from GM at least). I was/am also looking for a front
left
>(drivers side) fender. Found a guy that had 3 right ones. (he was
kinda
>strange and not to interested in selling however)
>
>Mitch Delk
>Huntsville Alabama
>'71 Cutlass "S"
>
>>----------
>>From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
>>Sent: 	Monday, November 04, 1996 11:15 AM
>>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>>Subject: 	'71 Cutlass Fenders
>>
>> >>1971
>>Oldsmobile Service Manual. If you know where I can get a trunk
lid let
>>me know. I also need a left front fender. Luckily my right fender
is
>>rust free, those are harder to get.<<<
>>
>>You should be able to walk down to your local Olds dealer and order
one. >> Hurry, they are probably getting scarcer. >> >>Bob Handren
OCA/OCF# 7728 >>'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible >>Oviedo, FL >>
>>Handren Associates, Inc. >>FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
>>Laser/Optical Radiation Safety >>(407)365-6385 >> >> >> >> >> >

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:13:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Mike Coccagna wrote:
> On my '89 Cutlass Supreme, I had a really nifty underhood lamp.  I
> really liked the design, and thought Olds should've put it on my '91
> Quad442.  The lamp was a switched and movable unit, that had a
> magnetic back.  You could take it out if its holder and move it
> around the car.  I used it once while removing the right rear tire at
> night.  The wire was on a pulley, so you could crank it back in when
> you were done, and it held it in place under the hood.

I think I've seen these on new Chevy/GMC pickups in the showroom
recently... so if you were willing to pay parts counter prices you
probably could still get it.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:16:34 -0400
Subject: 70 Cutlass parts for FREE !!!!!

I recently had a friend give me all the vinyl top chrome trim from his
70 cutlass. Being the packrat and good guy I told him i would try to
find a home for his chrome. IF anybody want these pieces, e-mail me and
let me know. Of course, it would be nice if the person who wants these
pieces would pay for shipping. I also have a rechromable front bumper
for a 70 Cutlass. The same applies for that.

Katana72          It's NOT your Daddy's Oldmobile !!!!        Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:19:21 -0400
Subject: suspension airbag question

I have a question for thoes folks who have airbags in the rear springs
of their cars.  I was wondering if they improve handleing by stiffening
up the suspension.  I know they improve traction on takeoff but I was
looking for a way to help the cornering of the Vista-Cruiser (yeah, a
lost cause, but I gotta be me) without sacraficing the smooth ride.  I
allready have gas-charges shocks on front and rear and a front sway bar.
I'm also gonna get some fat tires (something like 235/60) real soon
since winter is about here.  I hope to get a rear ani-sway bar soon as
well.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:19:11 -0400
Subject: rear anti-sway bar question

I'm thinking of getting a rear anti-sway bar for my `72 Vista-Cruiser.
I was wondering if boxed lower control arms were neccesary with the sway
bar. I'm concerned with tearing up the non-boxed control arms.  If
anyone knows of a good car to salvage one from I'd sure like to hear.  I
imagine the thickest bar I could find would be best, my car weighs over
4500 lb with driver before I even put gas in the tank.

Thanks in advance (again) for any input.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:30:55 -0400
Subject: Dan Williams

Is there a Dan Williams on the list??  If so please reply to me
privately! Thanks! - -- Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:48:02 -0400
Subject: Re: suspension airbag question

Greg,

The bags act the same as stiffer springs, so basically, yes, it should
assist in handling as well.  I didn't notice a difference in the GS, but
the front end is shot in it.  They stiffen everything up quite well,
tho' and you can keep a soft ride with proper inflations.  When coupled
with a sway bar, they work great for me.

As for the sway bar, my GS one came from a '69 442, and bolted right up
in fifteen minutes.  The standard control arms worked fine (as long as
the mounting holes are there.  I've never had problems with them.  The
sway bar made an awesome handling difference for me.  As I mentioned
before the front end is shot.  The rear sway bar ~actually~ levelled out
the ~front~ fenders for me!  I can corner twice as fast just due to the
rear bar.

I don't know that I'd go out and buy ~fat~ tires for winter.  Ice
traction and strip traction always seem to be two entirely different
things.  Some physicists will argue that the ground force remains
constant, but wide tires (around here) have always been tough on ice.
Skinnys work much better there.  Snow might be a different arguement,
but for ice, I'd go with the no fat diet!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:52:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

>Kurt says he's never had a problem... is it just me? After all the
>trouble I've had with these things I figured workable ones were like
gold...

Well, I just took one out of that '68 I found, put it in my '69, and it
works fine.  Pretty cool!  The holes for the screws were pre-drilled and
the wiring harness even had a connector for it. - -- Dave Paulison
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Melbourne, Florida             1993
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:26:00 -0400
Subject: '95 Cutlass Supreme

My wives father is selling his '95 Cutlass Supreme for $10,000 and
offered it to us first.  That is how much he still owes on it.  It has
a 6 cylinder engine that runs great, and 33,000 miles on it.  It has
all the basic options, and far from "fully loaded."   He probably
doesn't know the true value of the car, and I surely don't.  We're not
sure if we want to go with it because $10,000 is a lot of $$ (to us, at
least), and I thought I'd post it here to get some feedback.  I know he
is not trying to profit in any way, but he's just wanting to get out
from under the payments.  Is that price a fair price for a '95?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:13:30 -0400
Subject: Re: '95 Cutlass Supreme

>My wives father is selling his '95 Cutlass Supreme for $10,000
    ^^^^^ <--  Typo, right?  Makes us single folks wonder!!!  :)




      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Tom Waldron <tomw@harborside.teleres.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:10:00 -0400
Subject: 84 Hurst Olds For Sale

'84 Hurst Olds For Sale
$3000.00
Northern New Jersey area
Call (201)779-8656 for details.

I don't have access to e-mail right now so I'm afraid you'll have to
call.

Tom Waldron

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:28:56 -0400
Subject: Re: today's issue of USA Today

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Barnacle Bill wrote:
> I just wanted to let everyone know that there is an intersting
> article in the Life section of today's copy of USA Today.
> (Monday November 4th)It mentions a "race" from London to Brighton
> England with 46 vintage Oldsmobiles taking part in the race.
> Also one small article on a lady and her Curved Dash.  It seems
> that Oldsmobile had the biggest presence among manufacturers.
> Most are defunct automobile companies.
>     Hope you get a chance to read it.
>
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme

Even better, I have seen the London to Brighton "race" on TV!
My bro in Miami has a satellite and we saw vehicles that were
very famous (though I had never seen them before) to vehicles
that God hadn't even heard of.  All were extremely old and
fragile.  You get served tea when you complete the tour.

Brighton, BTW, is on the coast, south of London.

Look for it.  It is worth it!
dj

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:37:33 -0400
Subject: Re: State vs You and your property

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Chuck Rowe wrote:
> At 05:54 PM 11/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >Chuck Rowe wrote:
> >> I don't advocate slovenliness and an individual should have enough
> >> pride and responsibility to take reasonable care of his own
property > >> with the idea that he is part of a community,

> >Agreed.

> >> BUT the solution to the above mentioned problem is if the community
 > >> feels strongly enough about the unsightliness of junkers sitting >
>> around, they could offer to buy them and haul them away.

> >Nice thought.  And if he refuses to sell?
>
> Everything has a price. If the owner is foolish and/or stubborn, well,
> it is his perogative. I really hesitate to interfer with individual
> rights. There has been far too much tampering with those as it is.  I
> suppose if I lived next door to someone who maintained their property
> like a dump I would have one of two options: tolerate it or move.

It seems to me that people are very willing to have "government" do
their bitching for them.  They are willing to lose a basic right (or
have chunks of it whittled away at a time) over a whiney little item
and not think of the long term effects.
An example would be a city having covenants barring you from installing
aluminum/vinyl/steel siding on your house.  I know of one.  No point
naming it but they enforce it in their "Historic District", in an
attempt to maintain an atmosphere.
Right or wrong?  You can't tell fake siding from wood at any reasonable
distance, except when it starts to peal.
dj
Sorry to have gotten off of "car talk"...but it is still car talk in a
way.

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:50:07 -0400
Subject: Re: rear anti-sway bar question

Greg Pruett wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of getting a rear anti-sway bar for my `72 Vista-Cruiser.
I > was wondering if boxed lower control arms were neccesary with the
sway bar. > I'm concerned with tearing up the non-boxed control arms.

Boxed arms are required.
You can check the yards (listed on Brycemans page), or call Year One.
They have new boxed arms and sway bars.  By the way, Fusick lists a NOS
rear swaybar
that I believe is 71 stock.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:45:49 -0400
Subject: Re: bucket seats

>      I have a bench seat in my 68 442.  Is it possible to replace with
bucket > seats?

Yes, you need to purchase some mounting brackets.  They are available at
 many places.  I think year one has them for $27.  You use the bench
mountings for the outsides and these brackets for the inside bolts.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:03:01 -0400
Subject: Re: tic-toc-tac

Chris Sparks wrote:
>
> What does the tic-toc-tac run for a 68 442 (non W-30)?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Around $200 for just the tach/clock.  If you want the entire ralley-pac
option, expect to pay more (275-375).  However, I do occasionally see
ralley-pacs for $225-250.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:03:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Christian Fair wrote:

>
> Each quarter GM sponsors a magazine called "Invention & Technology"...
    major snipping here...
> In the recent issue I learned part of story behind Delco: Charles
> Kettering (formerly of NCR) was an all 'round smart guy who invented
> the electric starter motor...founded Dayton Electronic Laboratories
> Co. or Delco...cf

Sorry for the snipping.  I personally liked the part where it took up
to 37 days to finish painting a car.  Kettering got nowhere with the
paint manufacturers.  Kett felt an hour was the proper time.  The
article said that he found a lacquer by himself and took it to DuPont
but still couldn't get anywhere.  The article says "Kettering took one
of them (unnamed paint manufacturer) to lunch, then accompanied him to
the parking lot.  The man couldn't find his car.  Isn't that yours,
Kettering asked his host, pointing?  It looks like mine but my car
isn't that color.  It is now, Kettering said."

dj

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:04:55 -0400
Subject: RE: suspension airbag question

Gregg,

Wide tires in winter are not a good idea.  The weight of the car is
distributed over a larger tire patch.  This will give you less traction.


I recall an article where they droppped a Chevy Malibu wagon.  They
replaced the coils with shorter but higher psi ones, put in Bill-Stein
shocks and put airbags in the rear.  I think a rear sway bar was added.
Don't forget the fat tires too.  I've been considering doing the same
to my Cutlass Cruiser for some time now, but will have the means next
year.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

p.s.

Are you parking in "the cage?"

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:06:19 -0400
Subject: RE: rear anti-sway bar question

I'd probably go with the whole rear axle from a Caprice police car.  It
should work.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:19:18 -0400
Subject: Boxed or Not Boxed (was: Re: rear anti-sway bar question)

what's the difference between boxed lower control arms and
non-boxed?

------------------------------

From: Dennis W Johnson <dwjohnso@sunbird.usd.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:14:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> > > Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > > > Which almost inevitably fails. I never did get the replacement
> > > > from my friendly GM dealer...
  ...snip...
> ...more snipping...gotten a bunch of these out of junkyards and none
> has ever worked...problem is always the same - the little merc switch
> capsule inside the light assembly corrodes and you lose continuity...
> Kurt says he's never had a problem... is it just me? After all the
> trouble I've had with these things I figured workable ones were like
> gold...
> Greg Beaulieu   ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca   Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I would say the problem could be in where you live.  My bro lives in
Miami and the salt air rots electrical connections and aluminum like
nothing I have ever seen here in the center of the US.  You likely
have the same problem.  Anywhere that moisture can condense you will
get a salt caused corrosion, like in the middle of the hood where
the brace comes too close to the metal.  Or under a vinyl roof.
These are problems you never see in the interior of the continent.
Electrical is even worse as salt corrodes metal by setting up an
electrical current...and you compound the problem by adding more
electricity.  dj

------------------------------

From: George Torch <curiousg@crown.icongrp.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:01:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> >Kurt says he's never had a problem... is it just me? After all the
> >trouble I've had with these things I figured workable ones were like
gold... >  Talk about beating a dead horse. My 34 year old Dynamic 88
has the original light, it still works, has never been replaced and it
only works with the parking or headlights on.
 Also the one on my trunk lid is original and it works.

Now if I can only find a transmission that still works!

------------------------------

From: kdporter@midwest.net (kdporter)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:18:39 -0400
Subject: 455,in a G body

I know alot of you have installed big blocks in your G bodys.Tell me
what kind of proplems you had?Did you install headers or use manifolds?I
know the frame mounts should work.I also know the right side valve cover
will enterfear with the a/c box. I need a want to have a good plan of
attack.

     Thanks


kdporter
kdporter@midwest.net

------------------------------

From: Brian Cizas <bscizas@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:31:50 -0400
Subject: Intro And 1963 Olds Cutlass F85 (was RE: 1964 F-85 Cutlass)

At 04:04 AM 11/4/96 -0400, you wrote:

[snip]
>To get parts to your car is not as hard as you have been told.
>Even here in Finland we have some and this list can help you a lot.
 [snip]
>The hardest parts to find are the interior details.

Hi all,  this is the first time I'm writing to the list so I guess an
introduction is appropriate.  I've been reading and gathering info from
the list for a long time now, but I never really had anything to add.
I'm a 16 year old high-school student from Coldwater, MI.  Probably one
of the youngest people on the list, if not the youngest.  I used to live
in Oak Lawn, IL until 1994 but then we moved over here.  I wish I still
would have lived in IL, then I probably could have been at the
Fuddrucker's meeting :( I've liked Oldsmobiles ever since I was a little
kid actually.  The first two cars that I was ever exposed to were a 1972
Olds Cutlass (don't remember what kind of Cutlass, just remember that it
was yellow with a brown interior and brown vinyl top) and a 1981 Olds
Delta 88.  My parents sold the Cutlass when I was about 7 (that would
have been in 1987) but we still have the Delta.  Personally I'm planning
to keep the Delta for as long as I can.  My parents passed it along to
me when they bought a 1993 Grand Am in 1993.  The engine in the Delta
has absolutely no power (231 V6) but I love the look of the car.  It's a
2 door so it's fairly rare I think, and it is dark metallic brown with a
light tan quarter vinyl top and light tan interior. Unfortunetely its
not in working condition right now, my parents logged 160,000 miles in
the 12 years they had it.  I'm planning on restoring it and keeping it
garaged once I get some money.  My daily school driver right now is a
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera(I know, I know) but its in excellent condition
which is rare for these cars.

I've just gotten a hold of a 1963 Cutlass F85. (As you can see by now,
my parents are very supportive of my Olds Hobby)  Nice winter project
for me. It pretty much needs a complete cosmetic restoration.  The
engine (215 V8) works great but the body and the interior are bad.
Luckily it is an Arizona car and it only has minor surface rust.  The
paint is extremely faded and chipped otherwise.  My question is, where
can I get interior parts for this car.  Hopefully you guys can help me
out with this.  I need both door panels and armrests and new front seats
would be nice also. I've gotten the Fusicks catalog but they carry very
few parts for this car.  Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Well I better stop writing now before I put everyone into a trance.

Brian Cizas
1963 Olds Cutlass F85
1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera
1981 Olds Delta 88
1993 Pontiac Grand Am (Parents Car)


------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:14:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 455,in a G body

>I know alot of you have installed big blocks in your G bodys.Tell me
what >kind of proplems you had?Did you install headers or use
manifolds?I know the >frame mounts should work.I also know the right
side valve cover will >enterfear with the a/c box. I need a want to have
a good plan of attack.

     Actually, there in no interference with the A/C models.  The NON
a/c ones had a big air box that caused problems.  Headers are hard to
come by (not hard to find, just $$$$$$$$) for this swap.  I guess some
tubes need to go outside the frame (I'm running manifolds on the
Rockit.)   Everything was a bolt-in job.  It was not too bad at all.  I
went from blown up 403 to cruis'n 455 in less than 12 hours.  The
biggest problem I had involved the front pulleys.  You'll want to take
all the brackets you can from the donor car.  I switched my power
steering gear while the engine was out, so I needed a different pump due
to thread changes.  The original donor engine's pump may or may not work
in your swap.  The water pump came in two variations, and I ended up
fighting that.  Make sure your pulleys all are from the same setup (long
or short pump)  The biggest problem I've had is in the A/C compressor
bracket.  I retained the R4 compressor from the '81, and all of its
brackets as well.  The lower mount of this bracket, however, will not
reach the stud on the water pump, where it normally bolts to, because
the heads are farther away.  I just left mine loose to vibrate.
~Someday~ I'll find something better and cleaner, but...  I found a
bracket setup from a '79(?) Cutlass Diesel that has an idler pulley at
the bottom.  This helped me either clear the belt from something, or
stiffen up the whole assembly, I don't recall.  I may have used it as a
front mount to get rid of the AIR pump bracket.  I just don't remember
off hand.  If you keep the old A6 compressor, you can keep all the
brackets, but then you need to evac and recharge the AC system, and may
risk contaminating the Filter/Drier.  That also removes the stock
appearance that you may wish to attain.  (Only the true Olds fans will
likely recognize the BigBlock in there, and the rest of 'em won't know
what hit 'em, even when they look!
     You'll need to do some exhaust work, I'm sure, since the manifolds
are farther apart.  I did.  Hood clearance is also an issue.  The stock
intake/etc will clear no problem, but my Edelbrock gave me the rubdown!
I had to perch the back of the hood up about 1/2" to clear the air
cleaner. It still rubbed the hood, but I could at least close it.  I had
to mix 'n' match air cleaners, too.  Cutting off the support under the
hood took care of the problem, but I now have a H/O scoop on there, so I
can cut a ~BIG~ hole and get a bigger air cleaner in there.
     The Small Block (as opposed to small block, those are chevy's...Get
it? Good!) HEI drops right in, as do the rest of the factory electronics
and controls (sending units, etc.)
     One thing I always do now, for an engine swap, is to disconnect the
bulkhead connector and seperate the engine harness.  This ~usually~
allows you to pull the whole assembly out without even dropping the
starter, and you can put it all together on the stand.  It's so much
more pleasant there. Plug'n'Play automotive style!  If you're really
creative, you will notice a ton of open holes in the harness.  You can
scavenge a connector pair from a junkyard, and fill the holes to your
heart's desire.  Tach lead, additional lighting, nitrous controls, etc.
You can stick anything in those plugs, and maintain a ~much~ cleaner
appearance.  ~Plus~ when you lunch ~that~ engine, you still just unplug
it and yank it out! (THIS is experience talking here!@#$!$)  I have
probably fifteen new circuits added into the body and engine harness,
mostly security system componants, also future upgrades fog lights, etc.

     And since you're looking for a ~complete~ plan of attack....
You may want to change the gas tank to make room for the additional
gallons you'll likely use, since that gas pedal seems to go farther!
You'll want to consider a posi and slicks so you can put all your new
power to the ground, and possibly a stronger driveshaft (mine's held up
OK, tho')   Maybe consider a magnifying mirror for the rearview, so you
can see the looks on the faces of all the mustang drivers you leave
~way~ back there:)

     Good Luck, let us know how it goes.

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, George Torch wrote:
> >  Talk about beating a dead horse.

Nahhhh... it's only my lights that are dead! :)

> Now if I can only find a transmission that still works!

Hey, some guys have problems with lights, others have tranny woes! All
the same if it's what's driving you nuts at the moment...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light

>>Well I just replaced the courtesy light on the inner side of my
>>hood.  The only way for the light to come on is with the head
>>lights on.  Is this right?????  Seems a bit weird to me.
>
Does seem a bit wierd, I guess they figured if you don't need your
lights on then "ya dont need yer hood lite on either!"

I had a really hairraising problem with mine quite a while back.  Every
so often my dash/park light fuse would blow.  After weeks of changing
it, IO began to notice that it only blew at night, usually noticed after
it rained. Water, maybe?  Finally noticed one rainy night.  I hit the
wipers and noticed the dash lights disappear.  I popped the hood the
next day and noticed the hood light wire ran over the wiper linkage.
When the wipers would sweep, it would short out the hood lamp circuit,
which also killed off the dash lights, the park lights.  Damn!  Fixed
that one right there.  Simple.

If you want constant lighting, just snip the little brown lead going to
the light, and splice it into a constant supply.  That way it will go on
whenever the hood is openned.  Just like the trunk.

Another story that comes to mind (while on this subject) I got told on
night I had something on fire under the hood during a race.  The kid on
the passenger side of the car I was racing (close race, I was slow
then!) said every time I'd hit a gear, there was a flash around the
wheelwell.  ~The hood light was coming on!!!~  It would shine right down
on the suspension there, and I'm sure it looked pretty cool!  I'd always
wonderred if that was possible!  Anyway, enough babbling for now!
Later............

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:28:53 -0400
Subject: Re: rear anti-sway bar question

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> Boxed arms are required.
> You can check the yards (listed on Brycemans page), or call Year One.
> They have new boxed arms and sway bars.  By the way, Fusick lists a
NOS > rear swaybar > that I believe is 71 stock.

No luck on the Year One boxed arms. They are discontinued... I think I
got one of their last sets a couple of years ago. Salvage guys can get
them pretty easily, though. The sway bars and hardware *are* still
available from Year One. You can also try a place like ADDCO down in
Florida who sell these things for just about every American car made. I
suspect that theirs may not need the boxed arms, being a different
design.

The non-boxed arms look like an inverted "U" in cross-section, while the
 boxed arms are, well, boxed... the open side is filled in with a plate
to give them more strength.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:33:09 -0400
Subject: Re: tic-toc-tac

>Chris Sparks wrote:
>>
>> What does the tic-toc-tac run for a 68 442 (non W-30)?
>
>Around $200 for just the tach/clock.  If you want the entire ralley-pac
 >option, expect to pay more (275-375).

     Unless you get ~really~ lucky and happen to run across them in a
certain '69 VC that is on death row.  I'd walked by the same car for
years in a salvage lot before peeking my head inside it.  Full rallye
pac, with Tic-Toc-Tac.  I inquired about it, and offerred them $25 for
the guages in it (Dollar sign, two, and a five, NO TYPO!)  He said, go
get it now.  ~~THEY CRUSHED THE CAR THE NEXT DAY!!!~~  AND, my GS got a
really awesome guage set for really cheap!  I felt ~really~ cool after
that little deal, but I wish I had one more day to get the rearend out
of it, or at least look at it :(  I hate the thought of there being a
posi in it :(

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@pi.pro.ec>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:31:30 -0400
Subject: 69 Vistaquestions

HIall!
  I am planning on buying a 1969 Vista Barge here in Quito, Ecuador that
seems to be in not too bad shape. It was brought down here as a US
Embassy car. The current owners have put a 350 CHEV (yuk) engine in it
but maybe just as well cause Olds engine parts here would be very hard
to find. Some questions: It has 14" wheels..I thought they all came with
15's?? Is this the same frame as a Chevy  Station Wagon and would
headers for a say....69 Caprice wagon fit?  It does not have much in the
way of options..unless the third seat is an option? Non air car. What
shocks or rear suspension parts ie:swaybay assy will fit this car?  The
roof glass fwd. (mid roof) has a crack..This easy to get? and up to what
years will fit?
  Also..on the Vista topic...I watched a "Hans Rey" Mountain Bike video
last nite..and there are 2 guys that do a cross country trip checking
out biking areas. Well their mode of transport is a 1971 Vista Cruiser!
Seems in decent shape..with the roof rack supporting about 8 bikes! But
I sort of "cringed" when Hans Rey jumped his bike up on the Olds and
rode accross the hood..you might want to fast fwd that part..or get some
one to tell you when that scene is over  ;) .... so I think its called
Fat Tracks (or Trax) and its about '95 vintage. Good shots of the
Vista..and might start you mountainbiking... who knows???!!
Later...Blair Rendell
                         1971 442 W30 Convert. stick
                         (in St. John's, Newfoundland,Canada)

------------------------------

From: Shawn McGovern <shawn@travel-net.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:38:15 -0400
Subject: 231 rebuild opinions required

I am in the process of rebuilding a 231 v6 from a 1986 olds
cutlass supreme.  I plan on replacing the cam, manifold, carb, and
headers with thoses recommended by edelbrock.  The engine will be
placed in my 1987 cutlass supreme.  If anyone has followed
edelbrocks reccomendations I would be very interested in your
comments concerning the performance after the rebuild.

I am about to purchase a rebuild kit from either P.A.W. or Wheeler
engine service.  I found Wheeler at www.autoengineparts.com.  I am
wondering if people would reccomend one of these sources or some
other.

I am also wondering why most of the rebuild kit go up to 1983
what changes occured after this year?

	Thanks for any information   Shawn

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:57:44 -0400
Subject: RE: rear anti-sway bar question

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If your really stuck just box them yourself. Its a 1/2 job if you or =
someone you know can weld. I even managed to make a set look factory =
original.

- ----------
From: 	Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca]
Sent: 	Monday, November 04, 1996 9:28 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: rear anti-sway bar question

On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Kurt Heinrich wrote:
> Boxed arms are required.
> You can check the yards (listed on Brycemans page), or call Year One.
> They have new boxed arms and sway bars.  By the way, Fusick lists a =
NOS
> rear swaybar
> that I believe is 71 stock.

No luck on the Year One boxed arms. They are discontinued... I think I =
got
one of their last sets a couple of years ago. Salvage guys can get them
pretty easily, though. The sway bars and hardware *are* still available
from Year One. You can also try a place like ADDCO down in Florida who
sell these things for just about every American car made. I suspect that
theirs may not need the boxed arms, being a different design.=20

The non-boxed arms look like an inverted "U" in cross-section, while the
=

boxed arms are, well, boxed... the open side is filled in with a plate =
to=20
give them more strength.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, =
Canada






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From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:33:54 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Engine courtesy light

     Could there be any way to adapt the switch from a later model
Cutlass?
      The G-body underhood lights work the same way (on only w/ parking
     lights AND and open hood).  I've never seen a G-body cutlass with a

     broken hood light.

     Tom Lentz

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Engine courtesy light
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    11/4/96 5:16 PM

     This has got me curious as to other's experiences with these. I've
     gotten a bunch of these out of junkyards and none has ever worked.
In
     taking them apart the problem is always the same - the little merc
     switch capsule inside the light assembly corrodes and you lose
     continuity. Interestingly, the trunk light on the '68 and probably
     other years as

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:54:58 -0400
Subject: fat tires for winter

When I made that remark in a previous post about getting fat tires for
winter I didn't quite type what I meant.  I'm getting tires *with tread*
since winter is coming soon.  The ones on the car now are neary bald and
will probably be unsafe to run in another couple of months.  I'm gonna
get fat tires since they look good on the car and are more suitable for
cornering.  I'm not going to get fat tires specifically for winer
though. Snow in Virginia is a joke compared to you folks up north
anyway.  The roads just get slushy usually when it snows here and two
days later we're left with dry roads covered in gravel and salt.  I will
be putting mud flaps on the car for the winter to keep the salt off the
finish.

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:00:40 -0400
Subject: Re: '95 Cutlass Supreme

you wrote:
My wives father is selling his '95 Cutlass Supreme for $10,000 and
offered it to us first.  That is how much he still owes on it.  It has
a 6 cylinder engine that runs great, and 33,000 miles on it.  It has
all the basic options, and far from "fully loaded."   He probably
doesn't know the true value of the car, and I surely don't.  We're not
sure if we want to go with it because $10,000 is a lot of $$ (to us, at
least), and I thought I'd post it here to get some feedback.  I know he
is not trying to profit in any way, but he's just wanting to get out
from under the payments.  Is that price a fair price for a '95?

Depends partially on what model it is - 2 dr or 4 dr matters too.  What
trim level and waht exact options?

But generally, it would seem $10,000 for a 95 car that probably sold for
about $17-18000 is a pretty fair price (now two years old, a dealer
would try to sell it for about $13000)

If you need a reliable but essentially boring car, might be a pretty
good deal.  Good luck.

David Wilk

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:08:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 Vistaquestions

>HIall!
>  I am planning on buying a 1969 Vista Barge
>questions: It has 14" wheels..I thought they all came with 15's??
Nope, steel 14s standard I believe.

Is this
>the same frame as a Chevy  Station Wagon and would headers for a
say....69 >Caprice wagon fit? This is hard to believe I know, but the
Vista Cruisers are the mid-size "sporty" wagons.  A Caprice wagon is
actually much bigger than a V-C.  The caprice is longer by probably two
feet and noticeably wider.  (If the Olds Custom Cruiser fs wagon is
anything to go by.)  Your best bet would likely be headers from a
Chevelle wagon since the chevelle is actually closer in size and
configuration to a Cutlass/ V-C.  The car has 14 inch wheels because the
V-C is based on the cutlass and not the 88 or 98 cars.  The V-C has
about a 7-inch longer wheelbase than the Cutlass sedan.

 It does not have much in the way of options..unless the
>third seat is an option?
Not sure.

What shocks or rear suspension parts
>ie:swaybay assy will fit this car?
I have gas-charges shocks on mine, Monroes I believe.  They were a great
improvement and gave it a slightly firm, smooth ride and they cut down a
lot on the body roll, dipping and swaying you expect from such a big
car.  You can probably usea  front sway bar from a Cutlass of that year.
As for the rear, the track is the same as a standard cutlass, so I'm
inclined to think you can use a cutlass sway bar as well.

 The roof glass fwd. (mid roof) has a
>crack..This easy to get? and up to what years will fit?
Never needed to find one and hope I never have to.  I imagine they're
pretty rare.

>  Also..on the Vista topic...I watched a "Hans Rey" Mountain Bike video
last >nite..and there are 2 guys that do a cross country trip checking
out biking >areas. Well their mode of transport is a 1971 Vista Cruiser!
Seems in decent >shape..with the roof rack supporting about 8 bikes! But
I sort of "cringed" >when Hans Rey jumped his bike up on the Olds and
rode accross the hood.

He is definitly not worthy of such a car.  I say he be sentanced to life
driving a trabant.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Deep GM Trivia

> Charles Kettering (formerly of NCR) was an all 'round smart guy who
invented > the electric starter motor and sold 16,000 units to Cadillac.
When this

Development for the self-starter stemmed from an incident involving one
of H. M. Leland's friends.  A woman stalled her Cadillac and had
difficulty restarting it.  Leland's associate stopped by and proceeded
to crank the car.  Unbeknownst to him, she had forgotten to retard the
spark. The engine backfired which resulted in the crank flying off,
seriously injuring the man, who would later die from complications.
Leland concluded, "The Cadillac car will kill no more men if we can help
it." Hence, work began on the electric starter.  Kettering was called in
later to make the design more practical.

Kettering's first claim to fame was the electrification of a cash
register.  His association with Cadillac began with a new ignition
system, the Delco.  Key features included an ignition relay and
condenser; the latter helped provide a higher secondary voltage and
eliminated arcing at the points.  This was in 1910!  It was advertised
that it would run 2,000 miles on 6 dry cells.  Another Delco innovation,
which went hand-in-hand with the starter, was a generator - with
regulator!  The French often refer to automobile ignition systems as "Le
Delco".  The Delco represents the first total electrical system for
cars.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:21:41 -0400
Subject: Re: for the Oldsmobile Enthusiast

In a message dated 96-11-01 21:30:38 EST, you write:

<< Mike Hall wrote:
 >
 > Spud wrote:
 > >Heidi came through.  Today I received my requested copy of "Aids for
 > >the Oldsmobile Enthusiast," with revision date March 1, 1996.
 >
 > Yes, she did... I got mine today too...
 >
 > Thanks, Heidi!
 > Mike
 >
 > Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan

 I received my book from Heidi. Couldn't have come at a better timme
than
 for the holidays.
 Reggie Goble >>

I got mine in the mail the other day also....

I'd say she's more than earned our attention (give proper credit to her
when she states she is parts of Olds.).

Thanks, Heidi!

Chris.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:21:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Intake Gaskets

In a message dated 96-11-03 17:27:00 EST, you write:

<< Hello;
 Car Craft mag recommed do not use the "bed gaskets" in the front and
rear
 of the intake. Instead use a bead of silicone. If you use the silcone
"bed
 gaskets" in the front and rear along with silicone sealer you have a
good
 chance for a leak.  Read Hot rod and Car Craft for more info on this
 recommendation.

 Dennis Sytsma
 dsytsma@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

Hmmmm.....   I used them, and used a little bit of Silicone (RTV) and
didn't have any problems with it either time.

 On Sat, 2 Nov 1996 CRuper1@aol.com wrote:
 >
 > I've had an intake off my olds. motors twice and used a Fel-Pro, and
Detroit
 > Gasket "turkey tray" style of intake pan, and I haven't seemed to
have had a
 > problem with any leaks (air, or oil).  It was also easier to use than
those
 > damned gasket I used in the Chevy 350 once (four peice set-up, one
for each
 > head, etc.) since they have the nice dowels for the pan to set on,
and have
 > the dowels hold it in place.  With the two peice design, the damned
things
 > were a pain to get lined up, etc.
 >
 > BTW, I am just about to replace the gasket (again) on my new motor
(the temp
 > one) and I will use the Fel-Pro one again.  Detroit's was fine, but
Fel-Pro
 > included a tube of sealant of some sort, that you use on the water
jacket
 > areas, and around the intake ports, to help selaing, along with the
ridged
 > areas around the intake ports, which squish to proper size when
torqued.
 >
 > Chris.
 >
  >>

------------------------------

From: "Brendan P. Foley" <bfoley@ezl.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:40:33 -0400
Subject: Re: '70-72 Cutlass Fenders

Craig Dobbins wrote:
>
> Hi,
>   Like I mentioned before on this page.  There is a '72 Cutlass
> with god fenders (especially the driver's side, 3 minutes away from
> my house.  I'm still taking requests.
>
> Craig D.
>

Craig,

	I would like to know more about acquiring a driver's side fender for my
71 cutlass.

Thanks
Brendan P. Foley
St. Louis, MO.
bfoley@ezl.com

------------------------------

From: Stephen Lesniak <sxl149@psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:07:23 -0400
Subject: Re: rear anti-sway bar question

Definitely go w/ an anti-sway bar of at least 1" in dia.  This will
greatly improve the handling of the car.  I can't help you w/ the
control arm question.

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:32:00 -0400
Subject: Junkyard Gold

Reading about the $25 Tic-toc-tach, made me reminisce about finding the
65 Starfire tach for my 98 convertible. Got it for $50, 10 years later
it looks cool and works great. Guess this is what makes the junkyard
treasure hunt worth it... now if I could only find that $75 3.23 big car
posi...

or uh, perfect Starfire buckets and console just for fun...

Too bad they're getting crushed, as a group we should be very conscious
of the rare parts we come across in our runs to the yard and pull them
for one another. Do it as a break even service or make a profit, but
save the cool old stuff.

Soon enough they'll all be Kia Sephias
cf

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:27:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 Vistaquestions

>>HIall!
>>  I am planning on buying a 1969 Vista Barge
>>questions: It has 14" wheels..I thought they all came with 15's??
>Nope, steel 14s standard I believe.

8.55 x 14 / H78 x 14 on 3 seats	 <- same size on my '72 2 seat Cutlass
Cruiser 8.25 x 14 / G78 x 14 on 2 seaters

The Custom Cruiser and the v/c is only 2.7 inches wider than the Cutlass
 Cruiser in '69.

>Your best bet would likely
>be headers from a Chevelle wagon since the chevelle is actually closer
in >size and configuration to a Cutlass/ V-C.  The car has 14 inch
wheels >because the V-C is based on the cutlass and not the 88 or 98
cars.  The V-C >has about a 7-inch longer wheelbase than the Cutlass
sedan.

Agreed.

121" on the v/c , 124" on Custom, 116" on the Curlass Cruiser for '69

>> It does not have much in the way of options..unless the
>>third seat is an option?
>Not sure.

Separate models :34855 (2) 34865 (3)

> The roof glass fwd. (mid roof) has a
>>crack..This easy to get? and up to what years will fit?
>Never needed to find one and hope I never have to.  I imagine they're
pretty >rare.

There is a source in Canada.  Lisa, what is the name of it?

Speaking of wagons, I've seen a '70 Chevrolet Concours w/ 307 around
campus. It's some girl's dads.  But its riding on the same 116" chasis
as my CC.  Of course bronze/white is a better color than green!

>He is definitly not worthy of such a car.  I say he be sentanced to
life >driving a trabant.

I hope he remembers the spare engine...  Ahh, is that the smell of 2
stroke exhaust?

Roger Borlase
'72 cutlass cruiser
http://www.cs.gordonc.edu/~borlase

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #353
********************************
 
