To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/23/96 03:14:27 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #309


oldsmobile-digest        Monday, 23 September 1996     Volume 01 : Number 309


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Cadille" <rcadille@microagewny.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:18:01 -0300
Subject: OCA Closest Chapter

Pleasae send me the listing information of the closest chapter to Niagara
Falls, New York.  Do you publish a national newsletter or magazine? 
rcadille@microagewny.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:14:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds show Sunday 

When is this show? What Date? I live in Marin and thought it might be fun to
go for a while.
cf

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:27:55 -0300
Subject: '66-'67 Exhaust Tips 

Mike Turley asked about 66-67 442 exhaust tips:

Mike:

The tips are not available separately since they are part of the tail pipe.
 They are stainless steel and only a part of whole pipe design.  The 66-67
442 pipes are also chambered the last 24" or so with a perforated pipe in the
chamber.  They help a bunch with the very distinctive 66-67 422 exhaust
sound.

The 65 pipes are diffferent than the 66-67 (smaller diameter, 2" vs 2.25) The
_best_ (that is, they fit!) pipes are from Walt Vallelunga. (313)739-8255.

Year One pipes are notorious for lousy fit.  

Walt V. is an OCA member and his are better than stock.

They're not cheap, $300-$400 a pair.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:41:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Converting to a Dual Gate

Brad,
You'd have to get another column, and the linkage to the trans. The dual gate 
is 
an easy conversion, providing you have the proper cable.
Do you realize that only a handful of column shift W30's were ever made? After 
you change to a floor shift, yours will be like all the others.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:40:04 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Closest Chapter

>Pleasae send me the listing information of the closest chapter to Niagara
>Falls, New York.  Do you publish a national newsletter or magazine? 
>rcadille@microagewny.com

    The closest chapter listed in 'JWO' as "official OCA chapters" is the
'Western New York Olds Club'  1007 Savage Rd.  Churchville, NY. 14428.  But
I believe there is also a Niagara Falls chapter as well, although not listed
as an "official" OCA chapter by 'JWO'.   Anyone that knows otherwise, please
jump in.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:48:01 -0300
Subject: New Baby Has Arrived - It's A 88 LSS !!!!

Cigars for everyone, its a Eighty Eight LSS!!!!!

Took delivery of my new(used) 1994 Eighty Eight LSS this afternoon (Sunday).

Here is the new baby's vital statistics:

3.8 litre V6 w/ 4speed auto
Champange exterior, beige leather interior
16" aluminum wheels
Power driver & passenger seats
Auto dimming rear view mirror
AM/FM/Cass (can add on a GM CD player)
Auto temp A/C w/ dual zone temp control (freeze driver - fry passenger)
buckets w/ console
ABS brakes
And too many other bells and wistles I haven't figured out yet.
58K w/ 100k extended warranty transfered
$12,000

Much better detail tomorrow after a thorough flogging to work amd then the 
Motor
Vehicle Admin.

 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  1994 88 LSS 
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:50:05 -0300
Subject: Check Out The Web Page

Hello:

While Surfing About, In The Automotive Zone I Found This Web Page 
That Has All Kinds Of Interesting Things On It..

RODS HOMEPAGE
Just Type: http://homepage.macomb.com/~rrouse/

Enjoy.. Theres All Kind Of Stuff Pertaining To Cars,Racing And 
Automotive In General. There Are Also Some Real Handy Shareware
Programs Here As Well.

Just Thought I Would Pass This Along..

Jim<o455@ix.netcom.com>
Columbiana,Ohiooooooo

1969 Cutlass S
1982 Cutlass Supreme (455)
GOOD DAY

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:31:15 -0300
Subject: This List Works! 

I've been quiet lately - too darn busy to spend all the time I would like for
responding to posts, etc.  But something happened Saturday evening I think
you would like to hear.

Every Saturday, rain or shine, Old Town Kissimmee near Orlando sponsors a
cruise.  Last night our local Olds club and OCA Chapter was the featured
group. We had about 20 cars and quite a few members who also came without
cars. And it rained like hell!  But the night was worthwhile in several ways
including the following.

Another member of this list recounted a month or two ago their less than
positive experience when buying a classic Olds from Sunshine Classics in
Orlando.  They felt the car they bought was so misrepresented that they
demanded their money back and they did get it back.

Well, a fellow from the same shop had a '72 W-30 for sale.  Asking $14,000
for it.  Real pretty, white on red, etc.  It is a beautiful appearing car.
 But he picked the wrong night to try and pass it off as an original W-30.
 There is no "X" in the VIN.  As I was walking past after a bite to eat, I
saw the car, realized it was a '72 and walked right up to the windshield to
check out that VIN.  Another club member had called the guy on the same
issue, my confirmation of the needed "X" really bummed the guy.  He was
visibly upset and asked if the were "finished ragging his car."  When asked
what the price is now that we know it is a clone, not surprisingly, he had no
comment.

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the 64-70 Cutlass/442. But it is
_THIS LIST_ that taught me to look for that "X" on a '72.

It was a great feeling to call the seller on a misrepresentation that is
based on firm knowledge.  It certainly seemed to ruin one "entrepreneur's"
evening. :-)

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:28:01 -0300
Subject: Re: New Baby Has Arrived - It's A 88 LSS !!!!

> 
> Cigars for everyone, its a Eighty Eight LSS!!!!!
> 
> 
> Much better detail tomorrow after a thorough flogging to work amd then the 
Motor
> Vehicle Admin.
>   Brad Nicholson

Brad,

Don't flog it too much this week; remember your promise to loan it to 
each of us for a weekend.  Let's see; w/250 on the list @ 52 weekends 
per year, that's about 5 years of weekends before it's your turn.  
Congratulations.  You know we're jealous.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:38:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Die Cast Models -Reply 

In a message dated 96-09-20 21:14:45 EDT, you write:

> What year is that Custom Toronado supposed to be?  I like that body
>  style...  I got me a nice blue '69 442 last night.  It was the only 442 
> there. 
>  There were a bunch of red Toronados and one that was  forest green (I
>  think).

'70 I think, were the Toronados you saw Johnny Lightning ones?  Could use
that green one.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:39:10 -0300
Subject: Re: TV ALert!! 

In a message dated 96-09-21 17:30:34 EDT, you write:

> Saturday night at 10PM Eastern, The Learning Channel is presenting a 
>  program called ""Chrome Dreams". 

You're lucky!  I read this @ 10:07.  Almost missed it.  Give us little more
warning next time, OK?  ;)

Looks like this is an ongoing series.  Tonight's about imported cars.  YUK!

Maybe next week...

Paul

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:52:32 -0300
Subject: Looking for Neat Stuff

When I was in Lansing at the Olds Homecoming back in June, there were a 
few vendors there selling what I can only call Neat Stuff: Olds-related 
memorabilia that is otherwise unavailable. The only thing I could afford 
to buy was a book of NOS '68 Oldsmobile matches. :(

But now Christmas is coming along with a birthday of one of the Lugnuts 
and I wish I had bought some of this stuff. I really wish I had picked up 
the "Oldsmobile" sweat socks, complete with tiny velcro pocket for your 
keys, or the set of Olds glasses with Rocket logo, or the Olds cuff links 
that the factory gave away years ago to select customers or dealers. So 
you know the kind of stuff I'm looking for, unique stuff, not the usual 
Olds t-shirts or repro enamelled metal signs.

Does anyone know of vendors of this kind of thing? I would love to get a 
list or whatever of what's available if there are people who specialize in 
this, as I suspect these guys did. Any leads (esp. on those socks!) 
greatly appreciated...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:58:53 -0300
Subject: IRC Chat Revival?

Now that summers over and things are getting back to normal, maybe it's 
time to revisit the IRC chat sessions we had back in the spring. Thanks 
to Jeff Hunter we have a channel on irc.another.net called #oldsmobile 
and it was lots of fun when we did it last spring. 

The stumbling block seemed to be finding an acceptable time and day to 
meet. I'll throw out the suggestion that we try Wednesdays at 8:30 
Eastern and see if that is any good for others. What do you think?

To those who haven't done IRC, it is fun if you get a good group to chat 
with and this one was great. If you don't have IRC software I recommend 
mIRC, available for download from Stroud's site on the web. 

Anyone interested in reviving these sessions?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:00:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Cutlass 350 header problems 

In a message dated 96-09-22 13:31:02 EDT, you write:

> 
>          Have you removed the oil filter adapter?  This is the 
>          aluminum cast part which bolts to the block and to which the 
>          oil filter attaches.  Last time I put headers in an Olds, I 
>          recall having to remove this.  It's held on with three bolts 
>          and has a steel core rubber gasket, so if you are careful 
>          you should be able to reuse the gasket (good luck finding 
>          one otherwise!).
>          

I found that gasket at the local Olds dealership, cost: around $2.
DrkSole
 73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:25:05 -0300
Subject: Tilt column swap

Hello,

I recently purchased a tilt column for my 71 Cutlass. This column is 
out of a 70 442 4 speed. Is this a pretty straight forward swap?? are the 
ignition switch, trans to column linkage, etc.. different (my car has the 
factory floor shift automatic)??? How hard is it to change the 70 key 
tumbler, tilt and direction levers to 71-72 style?

Thanks in advance!!

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:52:07 -0300
Subject: Re: This List Works!

Way to go Bob!!!!

Back in the late 80's I was at one of those "classic car dealers" and 
they were selling a very clean 72 442.  So I walked up to the car and 
lifted the hood to be greeted by a very clean 350 with a/c, then the 
salesman walked up to me and was telling me how the 455 in this car was 
soooo powerful etc... I tried to explain to him how the small blocks have 
#'s on the heads (7's on this motor) and are painted gold.... But he just 
wouldn't believe me!! 

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> I've been quiet lately - too darn busy to spend all the time I would like for
> responding to posts, etc.  But something happened Saturday evening I think
> you would like to hear.
> 
> Every Saturday, rain or shine, Old Town Kissimmee near Orlando sponsors a
> cruise.  Last night our local Olds club and OCA Chapter was the featured
> group. We had about 20 cars and quite a few members who also came without
> cars. And it rained like hell!  But the night was worthwhile in several ways
> including the following.
> 
> Another member of this list recounted a month or two ago their less than
> positive experience when buying a classic Olds from Sunshine Classics in
> Orlando.  They felt the car they bought was so misrepresented that they
> demanded their money back and they did get it back.
> 
> Well, a fellow from the same shop had a '72 W-30 for sale.  Asking $14,000
> for it.  Real pretty, white on red, etc.  It is a beautiful appearing car.
>  But he picked the wrong night to try and pass it off as an original W-30.
>  There is no "X" in the VIN.  As I was walking past after a bite to eat, I
> saw the car, realized it was a '72 and walked right up to the windshield to
> check out that VIN.  Another club member had called the guy on the same
> issue, my confirmation of the needed "X" really bummed the guy.  He was
> visibly upset and asked if the were "finished ragging his car."  When asked
> what the price is now that we know it is a clone, not surprisingly, he had no
> comment.
> 
> I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the 64-70 Cutlass/442. But it is
> _THIS LIST_ that taught me to look for that "X" on a '72.
> 
> It was a great feeling to call the seller on a misrepresentation that is
> based on firm knowledge.  It certainly seemed to ruin one "entrepreneur's"
> evening. :-)
> 
> Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
> '67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
> Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
> U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:57:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Tilt column swap 

Hello,

I recently purchased a tilt column for my 71 Cutlass. This column is 
out of a 70 442 4 speed. Is this a pretty straight forward swap?? are the 
ignition switch, trans to column linkage, etc.. different (my car has the 
factory floor shift automatic)??? How hard is it to change the 70 key 
tumbler, tilt and direction levers to 71-72 style?

Thanks in advance!!

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

          Steve,

          This is a bolt-in swap.  The columns are identical.
          Ignition switch will plug into your existing harness.  Key
          tumbler is easy to change, but requires the steering wheel
          to be removed.  It also requires that you have the keys to
          both columns (it is actually possible to remove the lock
          assembly from the 70 column without the key, but it requires
          considerably more work and some risk of damage - email me
          directly if you want the details).  Your best bet is to get
          your hands on the factory service manual for your car
          (procedure is the same for both years).  If you don't have
          ready access to the manual, I can fax or mail you copies of
          the pages.  Email me your fax number or address.

          Tilt lever simply unscrews.  You will see wrench flats on
          the sides of the lever.  New one screws right back in.  Turn
          signal again requires removal of the steering wheel.  Once
          the wheel and lock plate are removed, a single phillips head
          screw holds this lever to the turn signal switch.

          I'm a little unclear about your original question.
          Obviously your 70 column is from a floor shift model.  Is
          your 71 Cutlass a column shift car?  If so, conversion of
          the tilt column to a column shift column is possible, but
          difficult.  I've converted several the other way, which
          requires one to get the column outer sleeve (I believe the
          correct term is "bowl" in the parts book) for the desired
          application (with or without shift lever, as required).
          Both columns have the appropriate tubes inside (an advantage
          of the requirement to have the ignition key also lock the
          transmission).  If you really must have a column shift unit,
          I have the appropriate "bowl" and would be willing to trade
          for your floor shift unit if you feel comfortable
          disassembling your steering column.  Alternatively, I could
          refit your column, or even just swap you for a column shift
          unit I have.  Overlooking my own potential personal gain,
          for a second, why not just keep the floor shit column and
          add a console and dual gate to your car.  This is a very
          easy addition (once you have the parts, of course) - unless
          you have a bench seat (do I sense a severe case of the
          "mightaswells"....).

          Let me know if I've interpreted your question correctly and
          if I can be of further help - or if I'm totally off base.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:00:33 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Chat Revival? 

          I'm interested but I always seem to have other committments
          or to be on travel at the times picked.  I'd suggest later
          (11 pm eastern) to allow those on the left coast time to
          have dinner, put the kids to bed, etc.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:01:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Tilt column swap

sbento@mecn.mass.edu wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I recently purchased a tilt column for my 71 Cutlass. This column is
> out of a 70 442 4 speed. Is this a pretty straight forward swap?? are the
> ignition switch, trans to column linkage, etc.. different (my car has the
> factory floor shift automatic)??? How hard is it to change the 70 key
> tumbler, tilt and direction levers to 71-72 style?
> 
> Thanks in advance!!
> 
> Steve

Steve,

I suggest that you work on the changes in turn-light lever & tilt lever 
after you get the column mounted in the car.  Also keep the steering 
wheel on the tilt column to protect the bearings until the column is 
mounted onto the car. The wiring from your dash will just plug into your 
new column.  The tilt lever just unscrews to change. 

The turnlight lever is tougher.  You must remove the steering wheel & 
compress the plate that you see under the steering wheel hub to take off 
the wire ring retainer.  A compressor is specially made for this & can 
be purchased for this or you might get a loan of one. It is a devil to 
remove w/out this compressor.  There is a stiff spring beneath that 
plate; so take off the plate carefully.

Beneath the plate is your goal - the turn-light switch.  There is a 
screw holding the turn-light lever.  Take this one out & replace it 
w/yours.

The tumblers can be replaced in the column at this point.  Take the 
turn-light switch loose w/a screwdriver & notice an opening in the cast 
housing that gets you to the tang that holds the tumblers in the column. 
 Put the key in the ignition & turn it to the accessory position.  Take 
a small screwdriver or paperclip & push in on tang to slip the tumblers 
out holding the key.  Get your old one out the same way & just push it 
into the new column w/the key in the tumblers.

The column goes in w/out much difficulty although there are a few screws 
& bolts.  Unplug the wiring at the swithch mounted on the upper side 
rear of the column.  Take off the plate at the floor holding the column 
there.  Go out into the engine compartment & take the shift rod off the 
collar of the column by way of the cotter pin.  Take the column loose at 
the rag joint next to the PS sector. Take the column down at the dash 
support (2 nuts) & it will come down onto the seat.  Hold it up so it 
doesn't fall.

With some help, remove the old column through the floor & out of the 
car.  The installation of the new column is the reverse of the above.  
Where have I heard that before?.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:06:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Neat Stuff 

          I have a similar request.  About 3 years ago I purchased an
          Olds coffee mug at the annual meet in Cambria, CA.  While it
          has served me well, it recently had a run-in with gravity
          (the floor won - even worse, it was full and landed right on
          top of my Daytimer notebook).  I would really like to
          replace it, if anyone has a lead on a source.  The mug was
          black with gold 80's style OLDSMOBILE lettering and rocket
          emblem.  Thanks in advance.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:06:00 -0300
Subject: RE: IRC Chat Revival?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

<<Anyone interested in reviving these sessions?

Greg,

Sounds like fun.  What do we need to do?  Where can we find the software, 
and then where is this chatroom?  The time sounds ok with me (given that you 
are refering to PM).

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 02:10:29 -0300
Subject: Re: This List Works! 

Bob,
Cool story on the "no X in the vin". Honesty is the key to keeping things
fun. If people get ripped off, they will ultimately drop the hobby and 
things will get a *lot* less fun. Thanks for your post and great work on
spotting the clone. I only wish I was there to watch. 

Nice to know there were no W-30 98 convertibles.  Keeps things real simple.
Course there were some starfire engined ones....
cf

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 02:10:00 -0300
Subject: RE: This List Works!

<<It was a great feeling to call the seller on a misrepresentation that is
<<based on firm knowledge.  It certainly seemed to ruin one "entrepreneur's"
<<evening. :-)

Bob,

Always glad to hear about stories like this.  You done good.  Thanks for 
sharing it with us.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 02:22:52 -0300
Subject: Indexing Steering Column 

Gentlemen,
I have what I hope is a tricky question. While I was rewiring the 98 conv. 
last week I moved the shift lever while the steering column was dropped and 
hanging (unsuspended) beneath the dash. 

Now the shift lever indicator and shift action are noticeably changed. And
it *really* throws me off. I know I can move the indicator pin and have done
so, but the lever is some degrees off where it should be. 

I could move the pin all day and not affect the shift action. What I'm trying
to adjust is that action. 

I have a tile &tele 1966  column (notable for it wildly persnickety turn 
signal changed in '67). I need to figure out the proper fix to get this 
thing back the way it was (i.e. that I'm used to, instinctively...).

What I've got so far is:
1) when you loosen the 2 7/16's nut's, you can rotate the column tube.
This is exactly the right action, but I haven't figured out what number
of degrees of rotation is correct
2) every time you move the d*amn thing, you have to readjust/check the 
turn signal switch, neutral safety switch and backuplight switch. Pain.
3) how can I tell when I have the tube at the right point in the 360 degrees
of rotation that is possible? For example, if I'm looking down at the column,
the backuplight/neutral safety switch should be between ___ and ___ degrees 
on the circle. 110 and 80? 115 and 75? 

Any magic fixes beyond continuing to patiently mess with the column tube?

help.
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 02:41:21 -0300
Subject: Hi Beam Short 

Dang, rewired everything from headlight to dash ('cept the 'plugs) and the
headlight hibeams still blow the circuit breaker. I may still be using the 
same switch and will test a new one or two (I have >3 at home). Can anyone 
confirm that the 66 design (very similar to 65 98's and 88's) was weak/bad? 

Having changed the entire harness, I thought the problem would go away. 
Imagine my dismay when it didn't after 35-40 hours replacing all those wires. 
The whole
harness is as clean and soldered as possible and still it blows the circuit 
breaker. Could this possibly be my halogens? From recent posts, they draw less
current than T-3's. Do they draw more amps?

Interesting problem though and it's not any worse. We've talked about a relay.
Great design Mike, and I appreciate your help. It won't surprise me a bit if 
I wire it in, but I'd *really* like to know if the factory just blew this
design or if there's something strange and undiscovered about my car.  Anyone 
know if there is a factory fix? Weird.

Had a great date last night, top down for about an hour each way to Sonoma and
back for dinner. Really, really fun. And she was totally game about top down
(no hair mess complaints... a keeper?).  Gotta love a girl who appreciates old
iron.

Got to the restaurant called "The General's Daughter" and saw a clean but 
mispainted 65 GTO convertible. It was pretty, but had some funky BMW fjord
blue paint that didn't look GM to me. Any comments? I don't know Ponchos 
at all. Cool car tho...

Some days I wish I had a Bonneville 2+2 convertible with a tripower 421
and a 4 speed.  Or maybe a 65 Riviera GS.  Just for days when the 98 wiring 
drives me nuts...

I'm not trading, so I look forward to your comments and help. Either way I'm
back on the road and very pleased with the rewiring results. All the dash
lights are really really bright. 

For those of you bored and and no football on Saturday, remove and clean your 
peanut lights in the dash. You'll be amazed at the difference.
cf

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:33:42 -0300
Subject: RE: Hi beam short

> Dang, rewired everything from headlight to dash ('cept the 'plugs) and the
> headlight hibeams still blow the circuit breaker.Is the circuit breaker a 
fuse that must be replaced or is it a device that comes
back on after it has cooled for a while ? Just curious, answering this will not
solve your problem.

> Having changed the entire harness, I thought the problem would go away.
> Imagine my dismay when it didn't after 35-40 hours replacing all those 
wires.I can. I just repaired the heater cell last weekend. Had to take apart 
the whole
"factory" to get to the element. Soldered it, tested it with pressurized air;
no more leaks. However, when I put it back, there appeared another leak.
Do all this work again next weekend.

> The whole harness is as clean and soldered as possible and still it blows 
the circuit 
> breaker. Could this possibly be my halogens?There is an easy test for this. 
Disconnect sockets to the headlight lamps and see
if the circuit breaker still blows when You switch on the high-beam. If not, 
then it
is the lamps and You should do some new wiring for the lamps.

> From recent posts, they draw less current than T-3's. Do they draw more 
amps?Current and amps are the same thing. Amps is a shortened version of word 
Amperes.
When electrical CURRENT is measured, the result is so and so many Amperes.
When electrical POTENTIAL is measured, the result is so and so many volts.
You usually speak about voltage but for some reason i have never seen Amperage?

The halogen lamps usually draw more current (amps). And once more, they draw a 
HUGE
current spike when they are switched on. The spike does not last long (some
5/100 seconds) but it is long enough to cause a fuse to blow.

If it is the lamps that blow your circuit breaker, then the main 
juice/current/amps to
the headlights should not go through it. Instead, the wiring that now feeds 
your lamps
should be used to drive a relay which then uses it's own cable (a thick one) 
to get the
current from the battery to be used by the current-hungry lamps.

> We've talked about a relay.The easiest way is to have two relays; one for 
the low-beam and one for the high beam.
This way you can keep the things simple.

> Gotta love a girl who appreciates old iron.My Anneli does :-)

> For those of you bored and and no football on Saturday, remove and clean 
your 
> peanut lights in the dash. You'll be amazed at the difference.Be careful 
with the lamp sockets, I broke three of them just like that. Don't use
force. Use a pillow and a lot of time instead. You will be amazed how 
comfortable
it is lying under your dash having your head on the break pedal and insulation
wool dropping into your nose. No football can beat this :-)

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:55:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Hi Beam Short

Chris Fair wrote:

> Could this possibly be my halogens? From recent posts, they draw less
> current than T-3's. Do they draw more amps?

Chris,

Not sure about the draw on the halogens. However, I can tell you from past 
experience 
that I have replaced all the headlights (T-3 to Halogens) on my older Toro's 
throughout 
the years and never had a fuse problem. So, from that fact I would deduct that 
the 
halogens alone are not the culprit. 

Easy to find out, just stick in the old yellow T-3's and see if it blows 
again. If so, 
the problem is somewhere else. Are you sure the headlight socket clips aren't 
hosed? How 
about the floor brightlight foot switch itself? Quite possibly the wires 
to/from the 
foot switch have worn and are shorting to the floorboard or themselves.

Sounds to me like a dead short somewhere. Focus on all the stuff you haven't 
replaced.

Sparky 


- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                      Driven Images
4217 W. Fond du Lac Ave.                http://cpeq.com/~edison3/dihome.html
Milwaukee, WI.  53216	
414-447-7500

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:12:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Hi beam short

Esko Ilola wrote:
> 
> No football can beat this

Which reminds me:  The Dallas fans have been unusually quiet.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:33:49 -0300
Subject: Re: barns, fields for cars

Graham Stewart wrote:
> 
> Up here in Ontario, the government has declared that all used car sales 
> are taxed on the Red Book values (book detailing general market values 
> for years and makes of cars), no matter what you paid for it.  

Whoa!  Taxation without representation.

> You are also required to pay $20 for a "Used Vehicle Information Kit" 
> which lists previous owners, before any change of title will be 
> allowed.  

Sounds like a title search done on real estate.

> It was quite amazing that they managed to pass a law requiring people 
> to pay tax on money they haven't spent, 

Yeah, I'd be suprised that would stand up to a court challenge.  But then 
whose gonna fight them?  Catch-22: They can do anything you can't stop 
them from doing.

> but of course most people up here have been asleep for the past couple 
> of hundred years ...

Must be the cold weather...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:25:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Olds 442

David,

Why don't go go look at the list of suppliers at Bryceman's site 
http://www.442.com ?  You should be able to find everything you need.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:10:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Hi Beam Short

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Dang, rewired everything from headlight to dash ('cept the 'plugs) and 
> the headlight hibeams still blow the circuit breaker. 

You got a problem in there somewhere for sure.  I can't believe that 
there's a design fault that's so bad as to cause this.  Anything's 
possible but I have to think that to be pretty unlikely.

Esko makes a good point:  Disconnect lamps and see if you're still 
tripping the breaker.  If you are, you have certainly eliminated the 
lamps as the problem.  But since you've rewired everything, it also seems 
unlikely you have a short.

Last resort:  It wouldn't be the first time a circuit breaker has gone 
bad.  It's possible that your breaker is tripping at say 30 amps rather 
than 40 (or whatever it's supposed to).  Try this:  jumper around the 
breaker with say a 40 or 50 amp fuse and see what happens.  If the fuse 
never blows, you've got a bad breaker.  If it does, well...  We'll have 
to keep looking.

> less current than T-3's. Do they draw more amps?

Amps IS the measure of current.  It may help to think of electricity as 
water and the circuitry as pipes.  Voltage = water pressure; current = 
water flow.  More water pressure through a given pipe, more flow.  More 
volts through a given circuit, more current.  Eh?

> Had a great date last night, top down for about an hour each way to 
> Sonoma and back for dinner. Really, really fun. And she was totally 
> game about top down (no hair mess complaints... a keeper?).  Gotta love 
> a girl who appreciates old iron.

Indeed.
 
> ...but mispainted 65 GTO convertible. It was pretty, but had some funky 
> BMW fjord blue paint 

      ^^^^^ Esko?

> Some days I wish I had a Bonneville 2+2 convertible with a tripower 421
> and a 4 speed.  Or maybe a 65 Riviera GS.  Just for days when the 98 
> wiring drives me nuts...

Uh-oh, we gotta get this fixed.  The guy's going off the deep end!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:01:55 -0300
Subject: Re: This List Works!

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Every Saturday, rain or shine, Old Town Kissimmee near Orlando sponsors 
> a cruise.  Last night our local Olds club and OCA Chapter was the 
> featured group. 

I gotta make it up these one of these days, Bob.  If not before, I sould 
be more of a regular next summer when the Toro finally emerges reborn 
from it's cacoon.  Flames and all...   ;)

> Sunshine Classics in Orlando.  

Anybody ever stop by and tell them the whole world is finding out waht 
dorks they are?  Send pictures of faces.

> He was visibly upset and asked if the were "finished ragging his car." 

No... we plan to keep it up for several more hours... but thank you for 
asking.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:30:23 -0300
Subject: Re: This List Works!

Hi Bob!

We really laid into the guy from Sunshine...his name was George I
believe.  The car looked good from about 30 feet away, then you see the
W-30 emblem was glued on.  We also knew something was up when he
wouldn't open the hood.  After we finished telling him what was wrong
with the car, we told him how his boss raped us on a car a few months
ago he said he wasn't surprised.  Then we told him how they put the new
(& incorrect) carpet over the old one and he laughed and said he wasn't
surprised about that either because the guys in the shop are so lazy and
don't care. That George was not a happy guy that night at all!  I almost
felt bad for him :)  It was a funny sight to see him squirm at so many
members pointing it out that the car was a fake.

Steve actually called Tony Mottola in St.Cloud begging him to buy as
couple of cars off of him.  I guess they need the money.  One was the
"W-30" which he wanted $8000 for and Tony called the fake on him then.   

I give them six months!

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:12:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Antennas, antennas everywhere......

Spud wrote:
> 
> On that topic, I know there are antenna boosters around, but are any of 
> them any good?

Crutchfield maybe and most car places carry some though I have no idea 
which are good and which are ka-ka.

> Also, is there a simple test that I can do to determine if my 
> windshield antenna is bad (other than crappy reception)?

You could hook it up to a field strength meter and compare it to 
another antenna or hook it up to a RF signal generator and see what the 
VSWR looks like (just like you would a CB antenna).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:54:00 -0300
Subject: FW: Support for Classic Olds Owners

Attached is the response I got after emailing Oldsmobile (aka Mt. Olympus) 
at oldsheidi@aol.com  I sent an impassioned plea for more factory support in 
the form of engine blocks, heads and sheet metal.  I also asked Olds to 
extend the same documentation services to us that Pontiac owners enjoy, i.e. 
send your VIN and get your window sticker.  Sounds to me like I got a cookie 
cutter response.  I need help with the following questions:
1)  Does anybody out there have the GM Restoration Parts catalog mentioned 
in the letter?  I'd rather spend $7.95 on premium fuel (and remove yet more 
tread from my Goodyear 'Gatorbacks) than buy some catalog detailing the 
latest repro Chevy floormats and mudflaps.  Is the catalog worth buying?

2)  Has anyone out there tried to obtain documentation for their  Olds from 
Lansing?  I recall reading in the FAQ's on Bryceman's page that post-'77 and 
Canadian Oldsmobiles have window stickers/build sheets available.  I bet 
that the post-'77 info is the only stuff that is computerized in Lansing, 
and that all of that priceless pre-'77 info is filling up file drawers at 
some bureaucratic depot somewhere.  I'd be willing to drive to Lansing and 
look through the drawers myself for a copy of my window sticker and build 
sheet.  How do I get a copy of my window sticker?

3)  When I bought my 442 in 1988, it had just arrived in New York State (via 
auction in N.C.) from its original home in Ada, Oklahoma.  I recall seeing 
the Oklahoma title in the seller's hands as we waited in line at the Motor 
Vehicle office.  It had a "Purchase Price" of $5200 or so on it, so I'm 
assuming that it was from the original owner ($5200 about right for a 70' 
442 Holiday Coupe w/ W30, air and AT?).  Like the young fool that I was, I 
did not get a copy of that title, and it went into the bowels of the Albany, 
N.Y. DMV headquarters (I think?).  Where do I begin looking for my cars 
ownership lineage?  Do I get a copy of that title from DMV in N.Y., or do I 
start in Oklahoma?  Let's hear from the documentation experts out there!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

P.S.  Over the past 8 years, I've disassembled just about all of the car at 
one time or another.  No sign of the mythical build sheet.

 ----------
From: OldsMed
To: mullenrs; r_mullen
Subject: Re: Support for Classic Olds Owners
Date: Monday, September 23, 1996 9:59AM


Hello Scott,

Thanks for visiting the Oldsmobile interactive area and for your continued
support of our products.  You may want to try contacting the Oldsmobile
History Center at 517-885-1502 to get some of the manufacturing information
you are looking for.  They are a great source of information for all aspects
of the history of Oldsmobile.
In addition, I have a source that you may be interested in.  It is called
"Aids for the Olds Enthusiast".  It lists sources for restoration parts, 
auto
clubs, and several other misc. items.  If you are interested in this, please
forward me your name and mailing address and I will send you one right away.
Also, have you tried contacting GM Restoration Parts?  To obtain a reference
guide, their address is:
GM Restoration Parts Headquarters
P.O. Box 354
Flint, MI  48501

Make checks payable to: TUAR Company
Michigan residents add 6% sales tax

Price: $6.95 Plus $1.00 for Shipping and Handling

This guide is supposed to help bring back the vintage look, feel, and
performance of the vehicle.  The reference guide includes lists for about
12,000 discontinued auto  parts for older GM vehicles.  Includes emblems,
decals, sheet metal, interior trim, engine and suspension components and
more.  The parts are all built to specifaction from original blueprints and
original tooling by approved licensed manufacturers.
Hope all of this helps, and happy driving!
Olds Med

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:14:39 -0300
Subject: Tranny Problems 

My TH350 transmission has some problems that I can't figure out.  I think
they may be related to the torque converter.

1.   When car is in gear with my foot on the brake, car surges.  My
friends car doesn't do that, and I don't think mine's supposed to, either.

2.  When car is in gear and I hold my foot on the brake, my tranny (or
some other gadget down there makes a strange noise.  I can't think of
any comparable noise, so I don't know how to describe it.  I guess it's
kinda like the sound a wet finger makes when you rub it slowly on
glass... only... hell I don't know.  I can't figure out where it's coming 
from. 
But it makes my car stall sometimes.  

Could my convertor be froze up?  Thanks for any suggestions...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:22:44 -0300
Subject: Still making W-41's? 

Are W-41's still made?  I was at my friend's house last night and saw a
very sporty looking teal green Olds (Cierra, Achieva -- I forget the model)
across the way.  It was a 90's car that looked brand new.  Like maybe a
'94...  On the front fender was an emblem that said W-41.  I didn't know
these were still being made...

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:06:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Antennas, if you care (long)

Spud wrote:
> 
> For those interested in why my number is different from Mike's, I used 
> a more precise calculation involving the permitivity and permeability 
> of free space.  Mike's speed of light number is approximate.

Geez.  I knew that 186,000 miles per second thing was gonna get me in 
trouble!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #309
********************************
 
