
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, February 17 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4780



Re: The New GTO
Re: The New GTO
Re: The New GTO
Re: Is my transmission fried?
Re: The New GTO
Re: Crank sensor (was of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability)
always ck the dealer for parts first
Re: early FI, Olds and Caddy
Re: ideal injection time, FI
Re: megasquirt?
Status Report: Amp Installation
Longevity of newer vs. Older
Re: megasquirt?
Re: The New GTO
Re: The New GTO
Optispark / Was - Re: The New GTO
Re: The New GTO
RE: The New GTO
Re: megasquirt?
Re: OptiSput was: The New GTO
Re: The New GTO
RE: always ck the dealer for parts first
Re: of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:48:35 EST
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: The New GTO

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In a message dated 2/16/2004 1:10:26 PM Central Standard Time, 
joevitek@comcast.net writes:


> However, ask asomeone who is 22 y.o. what is considered automotive
> beautiful and you will get a different answer.
> 
 I am 20 and I think 50-60s buicks are coolest. Love late 50s/early 60s 
Invicta. I also own a 66 mustang. But I am different. Most people who go to college 
with me like ricers. My car is slow, but can usually hang with them in some 
db drag races


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>In a message=20=
dated 2/16/2004 1:10:26 PM Central Standard Time, joevitek@comcast.net write=
s:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">However, ask asomeone who i=
s 22 y.o. what is considered automotive
<BR>beautiful and you will get a different answer.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"> I am 20 and I think 50-60s buicks are coolest. Love late 50s/early 6=
0s Invicta. I also own a 66 mustang. But I am different. Most people who go=20=
to college with me like ricers. My car is slow, but can usually hang with th=
em in some db drag races
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:01:30 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

Jim & Others on the List,

> Now you have to do them AND be smart enough to
> hack the computer
> programs that are running the engines.
>
> I have seen shows where they pulled consistent dyno runs of 700+ HP out of
a
> Celica that was still
> streetable.


I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen magazine articles on
similar vehicles. But...what I want to know is this; can they get those
power levels without removing or making inoperable or altering computer
codes to the point of diagnostic fault any emissions control equipment?

I repeat, in Arizona, if any one insignificant emissions device is
disconnected, inoperable, or removed from the vehicle, the vehicle
***will*** fail the emissions inspection. On '97 and later vehicles, if one
computer diagnostic code comes up wrong, without ***any*** tailpipe check,
the vehicle will fail the emissions test. In addition, the emissions
standards are different between Phoenix and Tucson. Phoenix is more strict
on some things, and Tucson appears to be more strict in other areas. The
political areas outside Phoenix and Tucson have no emissions program. Those
guys can do whatever they want to their vehicles, including 2004s. That's
the way Arizona runs the emissions inspection program.

The emissions compliance area is only Maricopa County (Phoenix) and the
Tucson Metropolitan Area (within Pima County). The politics are controlled
by the Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG) and the Pima Association of
Governments (PAG). MAG and PAG has been fought for at least 10 years to roll
the emissions test year up to '77 or to a 20 year test rule. We're still
saddled with testing anything that moves from '67 on up.

As long as a state has very strict emissions testing standards in its two
non-attainment areas and the politicians are idiots, like Arizona's,
vehicles that do not require emissions testing or are in the very early
years, like '67 to '72, are extremely attractive. I've met people who had
problems with Arizona's emission testing program and the attempted mods on
their late model vehicle.

Again, at least in Arizona, early cars have a distinct edge for power train
mods, and if one likes the early styling on those vehicles, like me, that's
an added bonus.

If I lived in Yuma, I could hotrod our '97 Pontiac Trans Sport. I don't, and
I can't.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:11:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

That's true. That's where the fun is. Taking something made by Olds and
modifying her to do things that would terrify the Olds design engineers. The
'64-'72 A-bodies are one of the greatest platforms ever to modify, because
it's so easy and the platform is so engineering responsive. Then, the second
generation Olds engine offers such great untapped potential.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Tremendous442@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: The New GTO


> 64-72 A bodies have several design flaws as well. The 442's are certainly
the
> best made one of the group, but they still could have improved some
things,
> the technology was there. But just like now, there are guidline that the
> engineers have to abide with.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:16:35 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Is my transmission fried?

Just a couple of days ago, I posted quotes from the shop manual to one of
the List members concerning his whine in his TH400. From your description,
it could be porosity in the case on the fluid intake side, according to the
shop manual.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Kt8321@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Is my transmission fried?


> My 71 Delta has a slight pump or converter whine on cold start. It goes
away
> after a few minutes. When driving, it has a very strange whistling sound
> through 1st and 2nd gear, but not in 3rd. The original owner said, "It's
been doing
> that since 1974."
> This car was very well maintained, and serviced regularly. At 151K, the
trans
> still works perfectly except for this hair-raising noise. I'm sure I could
> narrow down the suspect area using the power flow-chart in my tranny book.
This
> trans will probably get a rebuild this year, but if this noise is related
to a
> case problem, such as porosity, I would like to know before hand. It may
be
> something that will be evident on tear-down. I would seriously NOT want to
get
> it back from the rebuilder and find it has this same noise. Any thoughts
on
> this from the TH400 users is greatly appreciated.
>
> Ken Thomas
> 69 and 71 Deltas
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:20:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

> The meek shall inherit the earth.


The rest of us will go to the stars.    :-)

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:49:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Crank sensor (was of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability)

The '77 Toro (one of my 403 cores is from a '77 Toro) used the crank sensor
as a simple trigger, but still had a gutted distributor in the block for the
plug wires to attach to, with regular rotor and cap, and run to the plugs.
The coil was still in the cap, like on a regular HEI.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Crank sensor (was of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability)


> I thoght he was having a little fun with the terminoloy and was referring
> to the distributor.
>
> After all, once you lose the need for a distributor by going to DIS, well,
> there's that nice hole in the top of the block that you could probably
> quite easily slip in a shaft of some sort and work it like a cam position
> sensor.
>
> At least, that's my assumptions from the Rocket Scientist's previous post.
>
> Joe "But I assume way too much" Vahabzadeh
>
>
> At 09:09 PM 02/16/2004 -0500, Chris wrote:
> >Do you have some pics of this system?? Would be very interested in seeing
> >this, and wonder if it's adaptable to later model systems. But how did it
> >determine TDC on the compression stroke, I wonder? No cam sensor?
> >
> >Chris
> >----- Original Message -----
> >> crank sensor for the V6?
> >> Or for V8?
> >> There is a crank sensor for the Olds V8- all the 1977 Toronados have
crank
> >> triggered ignition. I have such a system or two.
> >> ----------------------
> >> Chris Witt
> >> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> >> Lansing MI 48911
> >>
> >> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:56:58 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: always ck the dealer for parts first

crikey...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34203&item=2459301185

$45 for 4 pcs exhaust bolt locks, PN 399423?

let'sjust do a quick ck at GMPARTSDIRECT.com, shall we?

GM PART # 399423
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1 	CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $5.49
OUR PRICE: $3.13
DESCRIPTION: LOCK

$3.13 x 4 + shipping = $20 maybe...

How about some dipstick guide tubes?
401357
$8.04 + shipping per 2-pack at GMPARTSDIRECT.com
$32.00 on ebay
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:50:26 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: early FI, Olds and Caddy

On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:45 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:49:25 -0500
> From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
> Subject: early FI, Olds and Caddy
>
> All,
>
> 	I understand that the 350 Olds engines in the Seville with fuel 
> injection
> was actually a port-fuel injection form.

It was. I currently have an intake and fuel rail from a '77 Seville. 
'76-79 Seville had the EFI Olds 350. They went to the 368 Cad (or the 
infamous Olds diesel), and front wheel drive, in '80.
>
> 	How about the 500CI, and later 425 and 368 caddy motors?  Were they 
> port
> injection, or throttle-body?  I've never seen one in person.

The 500 in '75-6 and the smaller motors '77-up were optionally port EFI 
in the Eldo, Deville, and Brougham. Same years the Olds 350 was 
injected in the  Seville, in fact. I have seen an EFI Eldo in the JY 
(500 or 425), but like a fool I didn't grab it.
See http://www.100megsfree4.com/cadillac/ for more information than you 
really need :)
>
> 	Thanks!
>
> 	- Joe
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:53:53 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ideal injection time, FI

The EPA was the driving force. Emissions and fuel mileage were what 
forced sequential FI.

And what the heck were you guys doing on the list on Valentine's Day? 
Are you all bachelors, or are you trying to become single? :)

krw
On Feb 14, 2004, at 11:03 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:49:23 -0500
> From: "Andrew Geeting" <geeting@woh.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: ideal injection time, FI
>
> Chris pretty much hit the nail on the head. All of the TPI Ch*vy 
> engines
> were batch fire and to my knowledge everything else except for the GN 
> like
> Chris mentioned.
> There is supposed to be a slight improvement in torque with SFI but I 
> doubt
> its likely to be anything very substantial. Maybe 10-20 or less.
> I think the real goal of SFI was drivability, longevity and fuel 
> mileage.
>
> Andrew Geeting
> geeting@woh.rr.com
> '87 Cutlass Supreme 461
> '98 Olds Intrigue 3.8L
> http://home.woh.rr.com/designsofarch/index/olds_site/olds.swf
>
>
>> The GNs and newer cars use SFI, sequential fuel injection. I think in 
>> the
>> 80s, the GN was the only car to use such technology, all others were 
>> just
>> batch fire injection.
> Bottom line, SFI will not get you any more HP/TQ than regular
>> batch injection. By the time you're turning more than 3000 rpm or so, 
>> the
>> computer is basically batch firing the injectors.
>> Chris
>>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:57:34 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: megasquirt?

In reference to this, and the Caddy/Olds EFI, I submit my project:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/snoopy_EFI.html

krw

On Feb 14, 2004, at 11:03 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:39:04 -0800
> From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
> Subject: megasquirt?
>
> Talking about fuel injection ...
>
> Did we ever discuss this on the olds list?
>
> http://www.megasquirt.info
>
> Anyone used this controller for an installation on an olds? I wish I 
> would
> be retired ... maybe I should give this a shot next winter for the 
> cutlass!
> There is actually folks out there that sell the kit assembled with a
> warranty / test report...
>
> George
>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:59:37 -0600
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: Status Report: Amp Installation

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Thought I'd report back on the status of my installation...
It's been a hectic weekend.

The speaker boxes for the subs are built, and the subs are
installed. All that remains to be done now is the great
drill (which will be completed by the end of today), and
running the wiring from the great drill, which also should
be completed today.

If everyone is still interested, I can put up pics of what
I have done and link to 'em here.

Thanks for your help,
- --Branson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:01:04 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Longevity of newer vs. Older

Don't try to tell me  how dependable the old cars were compared to the new 
cars. Just about any
car  produced today can go 200,000 miles with an average owner doing average 
  maintenance. Back in the 60's, it was common to need a valve job at around 
120,000 miles. Todays cars are by far more dependable, it is not even close.
=================
I agree that your average Olds V8 needed say a timing chain at around 
80-100k miles, that was after 10-12 years of use. Today's engines still need 
a timing belt at about the same interval. And, the consequences of belt 
breakage while engine is running can be disastrous. It seems that today we 
run vehicles more, because they rack up more like 200k miles in their 10-12 
years of life.
   As for longevity in general, I do not know how things were way back when, 
but I can say that for the last couple years I have been frequenting the 
local scrap metal yard... and I have seen a LOT of newish engines being 
scrapped. Bought a few of them, too. Mostly GM V6's like 3100. AL block, AL 
heads. Evidence of not much run time. Often appear to be model year 2000 or 
so when scrapped in '02 or '03.
   Friend's 99 Caravan just ate its trans, totally fubar'd the whole 
assembly. Vehicles still regularly die at the age of 10 yrs or so, not so 
much from the rust now here, but if it ain't mechanical failures, it's 
elecrical/ electronics which... if not very easy to diagnose, quickly run up 
such a bill that fixing it is just not practical. I worked on a Dodge 
Something [Lancer?] a few years ago that neither me nor Mr. Master Mechanic 
could figure out what was wrong with. Injectors stayed on all the time, no 
matter what. All wires tested OK, replace all other components 2-3 times 
each. I suggested a different wiring harness from a parts car. Mr. Master 
said that I just told him that the wiring all ck'd OK. Well, there's ck'g OK 
with an Ohm meter and then there's being OK in service. Load can make a 
difference. Probably was related to Dodge's dumbass method of routing ALL 
the wiring to the computer right under the battery. Saw that clever move 
kill more than one Omni type car.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:08:05 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: megasquirt?

- --Apple-Mail-1--68162433
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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	charset=US-ASCII;
	format=flowed

Make that http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/snoopy_EFI.html
The other one is old and needs to be removed.

krw
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: February 17, 2004 6:57:34 AM CST
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: megasquirt?
>
> In reference to this, and the Caddy/Olds EFI, I submit my project:
> http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/snoopy_EFI.html
>
> krw
>
> On Feb 14, 2004, at 11:03 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:
>
>> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:39:04 -0800
>> From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
>> Subject: megasquirt?
>>
>> Talking about fuel injection ...
>>
>> Did we ever discuss this on the olds list?
>>
>> http://www.megasquirt.info
>>
>> Anyone used this controller for an installation on an olds? I wish I 
>> would
>> be retired ... maybe I should give this a shot next winter for the 
>> cutlass!
>> There is actually folks out there that sell the kit assembled with a
>> warranty / test report...
>>
>> George
>
>
>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

- --Apple-Mail-1--68162433
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=US-ASCII

Make that http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/snoopy_EFI.html

The other one is old and needs to be removed.


krw

Begin forwarded message:


<excerpt><bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>From:
</color></bold>Kevin Wright <<krwright@sbcglobal.net>

<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Date:
</color></bold>February 17, 2004 6:57:34 AM CST

<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>To:
</color></bold>oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Subject: </color>Re:
megasquirt?

</bold>

In reference to this, and the Caddy/Olds EFI, I submit my project:

http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/snoopy_EFI.html


krw


On Feb 14, 2004, at 11:03 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:


<excerpt>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:39:04 -0800

From: geo.aigel@netzero.net

Subject: megasquirt?


Talking about fuel injection ...


Did we ever discuss this on the olds list?


http://www.megasquirt.info


Anyone used this controller for an installation on an olds? I wish I
would

be retired ... maybe I should give this a shot next winter for the
cutlass!

There is actually folks out there that sell the kit assembled with a

warranty / test report...


George

</excerpt>



</excerpt>On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...


Kevin Wright                                        
krwright@sbcglobal.net

Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                            
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html


'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html


Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a
W-31! And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)

...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll
be parts if someone doesn't buy it!


- --Apple-Mail-1--68162433--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:28:56 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: The New GTO

- -------------------------------1077024535
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/16/2004 6:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
swannys78@adelphia.net writes:
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Only because they're too meek to refuse :)

- -------------------------------1077024535
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/16/2004 6:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, swannys7=
8@adelphia.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>The meek shall inherit the earth.</FONT></BLOC=
KQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Only because they're too meek to refuse :)</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1077024535--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:57:19 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

The meek also have more patience to deal with people who can't wait to
refuse.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: The New GTO


> In a message dated 2/16/2004 6:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> swannys78@adelphia.net writes:
> The meek shall inherit the earth.
> Only because they're too meek to refuse :)
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:57:41 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Optispark / Was - Re: The New GTO

> Um, I'm a bit clueless here.  What's Optispark and why's it problematic?

Optispark is a great ignition system that the engineers at GM came up with, placing the distributor directly below the water pump so it could be driver directly off the front of the camshaft.  So when the water pump starts to leak it fills the distributor with coolant.  Distributor = about $480 just for the part.  If you're lucky you can just get away with the cap - $217...

Paul
> At 01:45 PM 02/16/2004 -0500, Fred wrote:
> >Cruiser, '91-'96 Roadmaster, '91-'96 Caprice wagon, RWD  Cadillac, etc.),
> >but I will probably look for one of the '93 and older cars with the TBI
> >engine.  Why, you ask, when the LT-1 derivative performs so well?  The
> >answer is Optispark. Whoever came up with this stupid system should be tied
> >to an ant mound and coated in syrup.
> 
> 
> Wondering because, up until this point, I'd figured the LT-1 version would
> be better than the TBI version.
> 
> 
> 	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:51:35 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

That's because it's not so common now. What was it like when there were 
50,000 70-72 Cutlasses on the road? Just like the TA is now.
I like some of the new cars. I applaud the increase in performance, 
handling and economy through the application of technology. That's why 
my '70 Sports Coupe is getting EFI, twin turbos, four wheel disc 
brakes, and adjustments to the suspension. Then I'll have the looks 
*and* the performance. The "G-machine" movement is exactly what I'm 
looking for.
I figure if I spend the money on my Cutlass that one would spend on a 
new performance car, I'll have a much more valuable and fun car in the 
end. And, more importantly, it'll be MINE and no one else's. :)

krw
On Feb 16, 2004, at 2:23 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:04:17 EST
> From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
> Subject: Re: The New GTO
>
> - -------------------------------1076947457
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 2/16/2004 4:23:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> imp@theriver.com writes:
> I mean face it,
> the last generation F-body's with the LS1 engine could out accelerate, 
> out
> brake, and out handle just about ANY muscle car. And at the same time 
> pulldown
> 25+mpg. In my book thats as good if not better than a muscle car.
> True, but after 30+ years of technology, one would hope they'd come 
> this far.
> BUT.... what's missing is the look!  Where's the style? How many 
> thumbs up
> are you going to get driving todays sameness. I just bought my son a 
> '99 TransAm
> with the LS 1 engine and a six speed. It's a fun car to drive, but on 
> any
> given day, it's just one of many like it on the road. My '72 Cutlass 
> Conv. is
> quite a different story. The older cars are simply better looking, 
> more fun to
> drive, and,  if you DO see another like it on the road, it's exciting! 
> And isn't
> that what it's really all about?
>
> Bruce
> 75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
> 72 Cutlass Conv.
> 56 190 SL Conv.
> 92 Eldo
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:53:44 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: The New GTO

Doin' it.  Only with a 1950 Frod truck.
Ian


At 02:50 PM 2/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Woops, sorry about that.  Some things with GM (OK most things anymore)
are 
>just all wrong and I'd like to set them straight.

Maybe we all need to go buy a Rustang to show what we think of GM
styling,
then drop an Olds in it to show Frod we didn't buy the thing just cause
it's Frod  ;o))))))

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:56:03 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: megasquirt?

My first one took several evenings, but I was being *very* careful, and  
doing a very neat job. The second one took only a couple of evenings,  
but I still tried to keep it as neat as possible.
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/megasquirt.html
(may not be up right now - I've deleted the site and am re-uploading it  
to clean it up a bit)

krw
On Feb 16, 2004, at 2:23 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:55:42 -0500
> From: Joe Vitek <joevitek@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: megasquirt?
>
> Ian Dixon wrote:
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I'm interested to know how long it took you to assemble the MS kit.
>> Ian
>
> Well, when I actually got to sit down at work (after hours) to put it
> together, it only took a coupla hours to solder everything on the  
> board. The
> next day, I had to mod the case a little in the shop so the FETs would  
> mount
> to the case correctly and allow the cover to fit. At that time, I used  
> a
> Bridgeport to mill the holes for the DB-37 and DB-9 connectors. I  
> would say
> going from the completed board (2 hours):
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joevitek/Motorized_Projects/MegaSquirt/ 
> MS_board_comp800x600.JPG
>
> To completed assembled case (2 hours more):
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joevitek/Motorized_Projects/MegaSquirt/ 
> MS.JPG
>
> You must keep in mind that a 4 hour completion time from bag of parts  
> to
> completed unit is not necessarily typical. I have a lot of experience
> soldering and putting things like this together, so I would say double
> the soldering time if you are relatively inexperienced. The shop work  
> on the
> case is probably longer than all the mechanical guys out there. I am  
> not the
> best mechanical fabricator by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> If you left a Saturday open for putting this together, you would not  
> have a
> problem getting it done in one day.
>
> Getting it to work the first time is another story (I was lucky to not  
> make
> any mistakes). Here is my MS page:
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joevitek/Motorized_Projects/MegaSquirt/ 
> MS.htm
>
> Good luck if you take the plunge!
>
> - --
> joe vitek (on the banks of the Merrimack River, Concord, New Hampshire)
> http://oldsgmail.com/
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joevitek/index.htm
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/C3carbhackers/
> '83 H/O #2981 of 3001
> '81 Supreme (to be FE3-X clone MS'ed road racer)
> '72 Kawasaki H1 500cc
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                          
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                              
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans:  
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31!  
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be  
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:06:58 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: OptiSput was: The New GTO

Not sure why this did not show up:

> > Um, I'm a bit clueless here.  What's Optispark and why's it problematic?
>
> It is an optically triggered ignition system, which, like  most optically
> triggered systems has problems if contaminated by water (just a bit of
> condensation is enough) or other things.  The basic concept is poor, IMO
and
> to compound it, the brilliant engineers decided that the best place to
mount
> this contraption is low on the front of the engine BEHIND the water pump.
A
> leaky water pump, or virtually any other fluid leak on the front of the
> engine, or a bit of road splash from a puddle and...  SPUT!!  Time for a
new
> Optispark to the tune of $300.00 +  if you do it yourself and around
> $1,000.00 at a dealer.  Later versions had some improvements in the form
of
> a vacuum operated vent system to reduce the condensation failure
potential,
> but this is still a less than optimal system.  I once pulled a disabled
> police car out of rising water with my 98.  The 98 had no issues with the
> water.  The Optispark did.  The bleeder valves for the cooling system are
> also directly above the Optispark.  You have to be very careful not to get
> the thing wet when changing the coolant.
>
>
> > Wondering because, up until this point, I'd figured the LT-1 version
would
> > be better than the TBI version.
>
> But for the Optispark, it is.  Unfortunately, there is no good way to get
> rid of Optispark and go back to a more conventional HEI as the PCM is not
> compatible with a conventional HEI.  The only aftermarket option I have
> found is basically an improved Optispark with a higher quality housing and
> internals.   May help some at high rpm's in performance use, but I kind of
> doubt it really solves the other issues. A shame, as many of the other
> engineering decisions on the LT-1 were quite good.  The cooling system,
for
> example, which features a reverse flow design that cools the heads first
> allowing increased compression and timing advance without pinging and also
> has several measures designed to reduce thermal shock to the engine.
>
> Ideally, I want something to be bullet proof in the reliability
department.
> If it is not totally bullet proof, I may be able to live with it IF it is
> relatively inexpensive AND it is accessible and can be fixed quickly when
it
> fails.  HEI modules fit this criterion.  They are pretty reliable, and if
> one fails, it can be replaced in ten minutes at a reasonable cost.
> Optispark is not.  When it fails, you are dead in the water.  It costs a
> lot, and it is not something you would want to change in a parking lot
> somewhere, certainly not in the middle of the road after hitting a puddle.
>
> Regards,
> Fred
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:36:02 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The New GTO

On Feb 16, 2004, at 11:25 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:32:51 EST
> From: Tremendous442@aol.com
> Subject: Re: The New GTO
>
> 64-72 A bodies have several design flaws as well.

Like water and crap-gathering areas just behind the wheels, for 
instance... :(
And yes, I got behind on the digests and am responding to a bunch at 
once... :P

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:38:49 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: always ck the dealer for parts first

>crikey...
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34203&item=2459301185
>
>$45 for 4 pcs exhaust bolt locks, PN 399423?

You forgot to add the $6 he wants for shipping, too.  :-)

>let'sjust do a quick ck at GMPARTSDIRECT.com, shall we?
>
>GM PART # 399423
>CATEGORY: All
>PACK QTY: 1 	CORE CHARGE: $0.00
>GM LIST: $5.49
>OUR PRICE: $3.13
>DESCRIPTION: LOCK
>
>$3.13 x 4 + shipping = $20 maybe...

It's important to note that http://www.gmpartsdirect.com != your local 
dealer (although ISTR that the last box I got from them showed that they 
were some sort of sideline enterprise being run by a Ch*vy dealer out 
east...?). The prices I get from my local dealer tend to be closer to your 
eBay sightings than your gmpartsdirect.com quotes.  :-(

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:41:43 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability

On Feb 16, 2004, at 11:25 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:28:40 -0500
> From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
> Subject: of 231 vs 3.8 vs 3800 interchageability
>
>
<snip>
> There is a crank sensor for the Olds V8- all the 1977 Toronados have 
> crank
> triggered ignition. I have such a system or two.
> - ----------------------
> Chris Witt

Eh? Are there any pictures or details of this beastie in the wild? 
Might make ignition easier on my '70 Sports Coupe when the 
UltraMegaSquirt EFI controller with integrated ignition control comes 
out maybe this year. Or the next. :)

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4780
*********************************
