
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, February 3 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4764



Delta 88/98 headers - was Delta 88 question
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: Delta 88/98 headers - was Delta 88 question
wire hub cap RE:tool/starter
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Anyone know Lincolns?
Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Anyone know Lincolns?
Man seeks 78*79 Cs wiring HARNESS for corn lamps
Trans fluid check question 
Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips
Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
RE: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
The End is Near
Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips
Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips
Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips
Year One Discount Code
RE: Year One Discount Code
RE: Year One Discount Code
Re: The End is Near

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:07:30 -0500
From: "DanL" <danl@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Delta 88/98 headers - was Delta 88 question

Fred,

It may be a misprint in the latest catalog flyer from Summit Racing, but
there are some Hedman headers they list, that are purported to fit the 68
Delta 88.  I haven't called them yet, but hope to get a chance tomorrow to
confirm.

DanL
'68 98

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:08:45 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

The vacuum modulator is on the passenger side of the tranny. Its round with
a vacuum line going up to the intake or to the back of the carb. Its held in
with a c-clip and 1/2" bolt like a distributor hold down tab. If you do
purchase one ask if they have an application with a slotted screw and a
small locking retainer nut. usually set from the factory , but by loosening
the nut you can adjust  when the tranny shifts by turning the screw either
CW, or CCW. Some tranny fluid will come out when you take the old modulator
out. so be prepared. Thats if the modulator is even the problem. A lot of
times after a filter and oil change on your tranny it will slip more than it
did before it was serviced.

Pat.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Alfter" <scott@alfter.us>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem


> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 12:49:09PM -0700, Oldsmagnet wrote:
> > >I think my car's transmission (a TH350) is on the way out. :-( It runs
OK
> > >in
> > >reverse and 1st, but won't shift into 2nd or 3rd.
> >
> > Does it ~try~ to shift but just fall into neutral?  Or is it locked in
1st
> > gear?  Make sure your vacuum modulator didn't get unhooked, that'll
cause
> > that very same symptom.  It will eventually shift, but at a much
> > higher-than-normal speed.  Not a bad idea to check the kickdown cable
> > either, although that's gonna have to be ~way~ out of whack for that
> > problem to show up.
>
> I was on a grocery run (maybe 5-6 miles each way).  On the way to the
store,
> I could get it to upshift by kicking it from D to S and back to D...it'd
go
> from 1st to 3rd.  On the way back, though, it wouldn't even do that.  From
a
> stop, it would always go.  Once up to speed (no faster than 25-30 in 1st),
> it'd fall out of gear after letting off the gas, but I think that's normal
> behavior.  (Letting the speed fall back down enough would allow it to kick
> back in.)
>
> I suppose a check of the vacuum hoses could save a trip to the garage.
(At
> some point, I really need to just go through and replace all of 'em.)
I'll
> need to crack the manual open over the weekend to figure out where to
look.
> Is the vacuum modulator something I'll be able to get at if I roll the
front
> end onto some ramps (or even just by opening the hood), or is it buried
> somewhere inside the transmission?
>
> > A fail-to-shift complaint is most often a valving problem of some form
or
> > other, be it internal or external.
>
> When my truck was stuck in 2nd & 3rd (wouldn't go into 1st or 4th), that
> turned out to be a valve-body problem; the dealer fixed it by R^2'ing the
> valve body.  I considered that as a possible source of this problem, but
the
> sludge in the pan led me to (erroneously?) discount that possibility.
>
> > As long as it's not actually ~slipping~ you're in much better shape than
> > you likely are assuming.  Usually.
>
> It doesn't slip when I start from a standstill, so maybe that's the case.
>
> > It's also not uncommon to find sludge on the bottom of the pan, I
wouldn't
> > sweat that too much.  It takes some experience to determine if the
amount
> > in there is excessive or not.
>
> Experience isn't something of which I have much WRT transmissions.  (I
work
> on computers for a living, not cars...sometimes I wonder if I know just
> enough about cars to be dangerous. :-| )
>
>   _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
>  / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
> (IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
>  \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:48:03 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:30:30 -0500
> From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
> Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
 
 snip  

 
> I guess that might explain the thermal vacuum switch on my 
> 1972 455.  No EGR, but perhaps they were trying to tweak the 
> distributor timing to prevent overheating.

snip
 
> 	- Joe Vahabzadeh

Yes, they were trying to tweak the distributor timing, but for 
emissions purposes, not for preventing overheating. 

My understanding is the TVS allows vacuum to the distributor advance 
only when the engine is up to temperature (and on some applications 
only when the transmission is high gear).

Kenneth 
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:58:59 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Delta 88/98 headers - was Delta 88 question

> It may be a misprint in the latest catalog flyer from Summit Racing, but
> there are some Hedman headers they list, that are purported to fit the 68
> Delta 88.

I'd bet on a mistake.  The '71-'76 body is easy, the '65-'70 is a totally
different car.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:17:15 -0800 (PST)
From: William Grumblatt Jr <wgrumblatt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: wire hub cap RE:tool/starter

- --0-1413159837-1075771035=:81547
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I want to thank everyone for their info on the hub cap tool and starter. I went back to the yard to see if my tool would work, turns out that the bolts were there with a nut on the other side of the hub cap. The actual part that they attach to were gone. So with the help of a small crowbar they came off. Fooled me when I looked at them the first time. 
As far as the 350 starter on the 307 has to wait.. My second job is going to take up the next four weekends, which means the 87 wagon has to wait again.
 
Seems I either have the time but no parts or the parts but no time.
 
Bill G 
67 Delta 88 Custom
87 Custom Wagon

- --0-1413159837-1075771035=:81547
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>I want to thank everyone for their info on the hub cap tool and starter. I went back to the yard to see if my tool would work, turns out that the bolts were there with a nut on the other side of the hub cap. The actual part that they attach to were gone.&nbsp;So with the help of a small crowbar they came off. Fooled me when I looked at them the first time. </DIV>
<DIV>As far as the 350 starter on the 307 has to wait.. My second job is going to take up the next four weekends, which means the 87 wagon has to wait again.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Seems I either have the time but no&nbsp;parts or the&nbsp;parts but no time.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Bill G </DIV>
<DIV>67 Delta 88 Custom</DIV>
<DIV>87 Custom Wagon</DIV>
- --0-1413159837-1075771035=:81547--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:29:50 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

I've heard 2 theories on changing tranny fluid.  Either start early and do 
it religiously, or run it til failure.  It seems that often, when one has 
never had it changed in umpteen thousand miles, changing it can lead to 
early failure.

M


At 07:08 PM 2/2/2004 -0500, Swanny wrote:
>A lot of
>times after a filter and oil change on your tranny it will slip more than it
>did before it was serviced.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:42:53 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <oldsmagnet@oldsmagnet.com>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

> I've heard 2 theories on changing tranny fluid.  Either start early and 
> do it religiously, or run it til failure.

I've heard of an additive to help prevent that on neglected trannies, 
supposedly changes the ATF to the friction level of the old burnt up stuff 
that the clutch packs are familiar with.  I've never ~seen~ the stuff, but 
I've heard rumors that it exists.  FWIW...

- -- 
=/   http://oldsmagnet.com   \===========/         Oldsmobile        \=
|  mailto:442@oldsmagnet.com  |=========|         1897 -- 2004        |
=\ Charley Buehner Sidney MT /===========\      Shot In The Back     /=

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:35:02 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

At 01:55 PM 2/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>the Kalifornia DMV.... negected to provide me with a Motorcycle 
>operator's license when they took my MI license.

Funny; much the same happened to me. I escaped Kalifornia, moved to Kansas
(didn't own a bike at that time) but Kansas gave me the bike endorsement.
Knew a girl who would loan my her Honcho 250 from time to time so I kept up
on my bike riding  :o) Moved to Michigan the following year and they
transferred the bike endorsement no problem. Moved to Virginny after
another year-half and THOSE aholes forgot to apply the bike endorsement.
I'd received my new license, walked out to the parking lot, got in the car,
wondered if they used my SSN for my driver's ID so pulled it out again, and
noticed there was no bike endorsement on the back. Walked back in less than
5 mins after I'd walked out and they claimed they'd already destroyed my
old Michigan license so couldn't even check it, even if the law allowed
them to "retrograde" it which they claimed they couldn't do. I pointed out
that I had checked off the bike endorsement box on my application so it was
THEIR fault but those Virginny aholes don't budge a millimeter and the lady
claims she could not search for my application to verify that, besides
which they no longer had the Michigan license so the point was moot.
Through all 11 years I lived in Virginny, the one govmint agency I could
ALWAYS count upon having trouble with was the DMV; they NEVER got anything
right the first time and I could count upon being there for at least 3
hours merely to renew my vehicle registrations. I applied for my ham radio
callsign on my license plates and the plates first came with the callsign
mangled and as a vanity plate, complete with vanity plate charges. They
tried again and it happened twice more before I finally got plates that
were almost correct. By then, Virginny had switched to the new super-ugly
serif font on all their plates and I couldn't even stand what the dang
thangs looked like (NOBODY could; everybody complained how ugly that font
looked). Kept them on the car a month and finally went back, told them the
plates had gotten stolen and got them replaced with ordinary plates  
;o\  ;o\  ;o\

>That was of course MY problem, and I had to not only pay more 
>but take the test again including the riding test, which I had 
>to provide the bike for, in order to get their CY endorsement. 
>Pinheads.

I didn't have access to a bike or I mita taken the test just to get the
bike endorsement again. But as things have worked out, I've never missed
it. Among the LAST things I want to do is ride a motorcycle amongst all
these east coast idiot drivers  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

>Also, had the car off the road for a year. Guess what? When 
>I went to re-register the car, they charged me for that year 
>AND late fees for "not registering" the car- I had failed to 
>fill out a "certificate of non-operation" for the year that 
>she was off the road.

When we moved to Massachusetts, of course we had to keep our Virginny
plates until we'd settled in. Since housing in Massachusetts was incredibly
expensive and in even shorter supply (in three months of having to live in
motels, we found exactly THREE houses within our rent range to look at, of
which the first two were just too dang small), we had to keep our Virginny
registration/plates. DMVs typically don't like folks who give a motel's
address so we didn't even try that but waited till we finally had a real
house. The Mass DMV gave us virtually zero trouble whatsoever at any time,
in part because your insurance agent typically handles the registration of
your vehicles, including going to the DMV and picking up the plates, then
even, in our case since we lived only a block away, delivering our new
plates  :o)))))

But then the Virginny registration actually expired a few months after we
had Mass registration. Mass doesn't insist on you turning in the plates
from your former state, so we didn't since we had needed them until we got
the Mass plates put on. And the insurance agent, of course, didn't remind
us to turn in the Virginny plates.

So a few months go by and the Virginny registrations run out. We're still
getting forwarded mail so we get a cupla dunning notices from Virginny that
warn they'll not renew registration, etc. etc. until we pay our Virginny
county vehicle taxes (in Virginny, you pay taxes to yer county instead of
the state); and worse, they'll dun the owner of the property of our last
address, which was our landlord since we had rented. I sent both the
Virginny DMV and the county letters stating we no longer lived in Virginny
as of such-and-such so were not liable for their taxes as of that date. For
the next year (as long as I kept the mail-forwarding up), we kept getting
those Virginny dunning notices from both the DMV and county. Neither would
give up until we returned the plates; and no way was I gonna pay the
shipping to send them back  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\ Finally, the mail-forwarding
expired  :o))))

Mass's DMV was dang near as easy to deal with as California; the CA DMV was
a pure dream; when I lived there, never a hassle whatsoever for any reason
at all  :o)))))  Connecticut has also not been any problem other than the
fact that their fees are incredibly high; it cost me over $130 to get the
title and registration for my '83 M*libu wagon for which I paid only $150;
and $150 for the '84 Elky which had a higher fee because it's a truck  ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:11:16 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

trans fluid flush done yearly  the best way to go about it is the new flush machines. we did a 1997 4l60e that was spposed to be no good ran cleaner/solvent threw trans freed up sticking shift sol.
ron 
> > I've heard 2 theories on changing tranny fluid.  Either start early and 
> > do it religiously, or run it til failure.
> 
> I've heard of an additive to help prevent that on neglected trannies, 
> supposedly changes the ATF to the friction level of the old burnt up stuff 
> that the clutch packs are familiar with.  I've never ~seen~ the stuff, but 
> I've heard rumors that it exists.  FWIW...
> 
> -- 
> =/   http://oldsmagnet.com   \===========/         Oldsmobile        \=
> |  mailto:442@oldsmagnet.com  |=========|         1897 -- 2004        |
> =\ Charley Buehner Sidney MT /===========\      Shot In The Back     /=
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:07:49 -0500
From: "Eric J McTague" <oldsluvr@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone know Lincolns?

There was a TSB calling for replacing the plastic grommet with a brass
bushing & retainer clip on these cars.

I stumbled upon the TSB one day & did this on my 92 LSC just to be safe.

F3SZ7H303B was the part number for the brass bushing & retaining clip. List
price was $1.68.
(April 2002 info)

One way or another you'll need this ... maybe you'll get lucky & the trans
won't be complete toast yet ... tho if it has been driven for any length of
time like that ... the odds are stacked against you.

I could scan/email or copy/send snail mail, if your brother would like
copies of the TSB.

Regards,

Eric

OCA # 032852 - TC # 836 - ROA # 9801
84 Cutlass - 72 Toro
92 LSC - 97 Town Car
00 Solara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:27:57 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....

> On my Cutlass, the Trans fluid dipstick has two settings. The top one says
> "Hot" the bottom says "cold".


That's true. As far as I can remember, all auto trans dipsticks say that.
But the reading is more true on hot oil, and the engine must still be
running when the fluid is checked. If the trans is overfilled, excess fluid
will be shoved out the trans case vent. You will have a small mess, both on
the underside of the car and on your driveway.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:43:38 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

> I've heard 2 theories on changing tranny fluid.  Either start early and do
> it religiously, or run it til failure.  It seems that often, when one has
> never had it changed in umpteen thousand miles, changing it can lead to
> early failure.


That would only happen if:

1) the trans had manual adjusted bands, like the '64-'67 2-speed Jetaway,
and they were not re-adjusted when the fluid and filter were changed, or

2) the trans was a self-adjusting type like a TH400 and the bands were ready
to fail anyway.

Changing fluid and filter should never cause a trans to fail, unless
something was overlooked or something else was already failing.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 23:27:50 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Anyone know Lincolns?

I agree. A buddy of mine bought a grand marquis with the same trans setup 
and the EFI 5.0. When we went shopping for this particular car, my friend 
who was a ford technician recommended checking that the grommet was intact, 
this being one of the biggest flaws of the setup! When the car was bought, 
we immediately did the brass bushing upgrade. $1.50 if  I remember right.

Hope your bro didn't get burnt in the sale.

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:21:05 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Man seeks 78*79 Cs wiring HARNESS for corn lamps

Hi Any chance of an un-cut wire harness for a 1978-79 olds cutlass with the
factory cornering light option? The harness runs from the pass. cornering 
light
around the front to the dr. cornering light then through the firewall + 
plugs in
at the base of the steering column to the steering column harness. Thank you 
for
your time
- --------------------
Sorry, I do not think that any of those parts cars have that option.

Try free WANTED ad on 442.com?

I also fwd'd this to the email list- anyone who can assist this guy please 
contact him DIRECTLY at
horace@bestweb.net

Thanks!
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet 
Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:03:11 EST
From: Sm7442@aol.com
Subject: Trans fluid check question 

- --part1_b7.3bffd690.2d51122f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Trans fluid hot fill marks are there because fluid will expand 1 pint when 
hot and overfill will cause slip...

- --part1_b7.3bffd690.2d51122f_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  COLOR=3D"#8000ff" SIZE=3D4 P=
TSIZE=3D14 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman CE" LANG=3D"0">Trans flu=
id hot fill marks are there because fluid will expand 1 pint when hot and ov=
erfill will cause slip...</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_b7.3bffd690.2d51122f_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:01:03 -0700
From: "Karl Sup" <droldslives@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips

Does anyone have some used hubcap clips for early 60's full size wheel 
covers? I think they need 5 per hubcap to secure it. I know Fusick sells 
them for $5... EACH. Seems extremely high, especially for the car I'm 
fixing. :-/

Thanks,
Karl Sup
Mesa, AZ

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime 
features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:11:36 -0600
From: "Michael Brady" <mbrady38@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips

> Does anyone have some used hubcap clips for early 60's full size wheel
> covers? I think they need 5 per hubcap to secure it. I know Fusick sells
> them for $5... EACH. Seems extremely high, especially for the car I'm
> fixing. :-/
>
> Thanks,
> Karl Sup
> Mesa, AZ

Hello Karl,

I thought the clips were only for the 61' wheel covers?? Anyway.......I
believe I saw some original ones on E-bay last week..........good luck.

Michael Brady
1966 Factory L-69

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:13:06 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

A spray of water on the slightly accelerated engine should do a similiar
task... will not remove much of carbon from the valves, but from teh
cobustion chamber yes...
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:01:13 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:09:16 -0800
> From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
> Subject: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

snip 
 
> (Some mild performance improvements might be doable, but 
> it'll remain a street creature. :-) )  I therefore don't 
> think I'll need anything too out of the ordinary in a 
> replacement tranny...probably just another rebuilt TH350. 
> What kind of money would I likely be looking at (parts and 
> labor) to have this done?  I've not needed this kind of work 
> done before, so I'm pretty much flying blind at the moment. :-|

It doesn't sound like your tranny has given up yet. I agree with the 
previous posts that you probably have a minor problem that can (hopefully) 
be easily solved, but I wanted to answer your question about rebuild 
prices so you would have an idea of what is available.

Back in the Houston area I had a shop do a stock rebuild on my TH350 for 
$250 (new clutches and seals). I pulled the tranny and dropped it off with 
them for the rebuild, then picked it up and reinstalled it myself. I purchased 
a new torque converter online from Darrell Young Racing Transmissions for about 
$140, for a total rebuild cost of about $400. That tranny rebuild lasted about 6 
years (maybe 25,000 miles) before it started slipping again. Now I was in Phoenix 
and didn't have the time to pull the tranny myself, so I brought the car to a 
local shop (Denny's Transmissions). A performance rebuild including quality Redline 
clutches, a new roller sprag and hardened race, HD band, and a Hughes 2500 RPM 
converter cost me $800. This rebuild is very strong and should last many, many years.


Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:07:31 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

IIRC,the problem is not shifting correctly? I hd such a problem when the
shop left the vacuum disconnected between the intake and the vacuum
modulator. 5' fix it was. Hope it helps..
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:28:52 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: The End is Near

Found this bit of cheer in the Monday Business section of the Dallas  
Morning News:
http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/tv/stories/ 
020204dnbusoldsmobile.a3148.html

May require free registration.

I can post the entire story (not incredibly long) if desired.
Ah, the heck with it, I'll do it anyway. It's an AP story, so it's  
freely available as long as the copyright's intact:

Olds dealers: End is in sight

As production winds down, some are geared to move on; others sue

01:50 AM CST on Monday, February 2, 2004

Associated Press

LAS VEGAS – No one's wearing a sandwich board with an ominous message,  
but for hundreds of Oldsmobile dealers attending their industry's  
annual convention, there's no denying reality: The end is near.

"It's time to get on with the burial," said Gary Wight, who has sold  
Oldsmobiles, the oldest automotive brand name in U.S. history, for 30  
years. "It's sad and it's done and it's not going to change. Oldsmobile  
is a wonderful memory, but there's nothing in the windshield. It's all  
in the rearview mirror."

General Motors Corp. announced in December 2000 that it would end  
production of the struggling Oldsmobile line with the 2004 model year.  
The company has stopped making the Intrigue, Aurora and, in the last  
week, the Bravada sport utility vehicle. That leaves only two models –  
the Alero passenger car and Silhouette minivan.

Darwin Clark, GM's vice president of industry-dealer affairs, said a  
final date to end production has not been set, but business probably  
will continue through part of 2005.

Mr. Wight, a GM dealer in Rigby, Idaho, predicts this weekend's  
gathering of Olds dealers at the National Automobile Dealers  
Association annual convention is the last.

Mr. Clark and other GM representatives have been working with Olds  
dealers for more than two years on separation arrangements. When the  
decision was made to scrap the brand, Olds counted 2,802 dealers in the  
United States. As of last week, all but 176 had signed settlement  
packages.

Some deals are in the works with them. Others are tied up in  
litigation, the result of dealers who aren't happy with terms of their  
proposed settlements.

GM has declined to discuss details of the settlements or pending  
lawsuits. When GM reported its earnings in January 2001, the company  
took a charge of $939 million for the Oldsmobile phaseout.

"This is a very tough situation, but the process seems to be working  
fairly well," said Bill Stacy, an Oldsmobile transition director. He  
said slightly more than 1,500 dealers already have chosen to exit the  
Olds business. About 1,300 or so remain active.

Oldsmobile or not, many of the dealers remain in the car business  
because 94 percent of them sold another GM brand at the time of the  
2001 announcement.

That's the case for Mr. Wight, who also sells Cadillacs, Chevrolets,  
Buicks and Pontiacs. He said 60 percent of his business is from repeat  
customers.

"We sell all of those brands, so it's probably easier for us to make  
the transition," Mr. Wight said. "If I were a stand-alone Oldsmobile  
dealer, it would have been devastating."

Oldsmobile was named for its founder, Ransom E. Olds, who started the  
Olds Motor Vehicle Co. in Lansing, Mich., in 1897. GM later absorbed  
the company, and Olds soon assumed its place as the middle-class car in  
GM's lineup – more expensive than Chevrolet and Pontiac but a step or  
two below Buick and Cadillac.

The brand grew steadily and in 1977, it became the first GM division  
outside Chevrolet to sell more than 1 million cars. Its high point was  
1985, when it built 1,168,982 vehicles. But sales began to fall in the  
last decade and GM was unable to make a profit with the brand.

Kevin Wright
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
krwright@sbcglobal.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:59:56 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips

> I thought the clips were only for the 61' wheel covers??

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:59:56 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips

> I thought the clips were only for the 61' wheel covers??

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:08:09 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Wanted: 1962 Starfire Hubcap Clips

> I thought the clips were only for the 61' wheel covers?? 

Oldsmobile used those clips from 1957 thru 1963.  1961s were different from all the other years.  They are shorter because the '61s had a larger diameter retaining ring.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:43:38 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Year One Discount Code

Just this past week or so someone posted that the 20% off 
code for Year One orders was "stuck4". I just tried that 
code on my order and it did not work - the message said it 
was either an invalid code or it had expired. 

Does anyone know if this is the correct code, or if there is 
another one? I need to order a well liner ASAP so I can start 
putting my top back on. Please reply directly as I am on digest 
mode and may not get a reply from the server for quite a while.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:49:53 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: Year One Discount Code

Steve Reed may know.
Ian

Does anyone know if this is the correct code, or if there is 
another one? I need to order a well liner ASAP so I can start 
putting my top back on. Please reply directly as I am on digest 
mode and may not get a reply from the server for quite a while.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:53:09 -0600
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: Year One Discount Code

These codes don't normally work for online orders.   If it is still a valid code, it will work with a phone order.   If you are not sure, call year one and ask before placing the order.  They have verified that a code is valid before I made and order once before.  Also be sure to ask if any of the items are discount exempt.  Some are.

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382


 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Schopen, Kenneth [mailto:kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com]
 > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:44 PM
 > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 > Subject: Year One Discount Code
 > 
 > 
 > Just this past week or so someone posted that the 20% off 
 > code for Year One orders was "stuck4". I just tried that 
 > code on my order and it did not work - the message said it 
 > was either an invalid code or it had expired. 
 > 
 > Does anyone know if this is the correct code, or if there is 
 > another one? I need to order a well liner ASAP so I can start 
 > putting my top back on. Please reply directly as I am on digest 
 > mode and may not get a reply from the server for quite a while.
 > 
 > Kenneth
 > 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
 > Phoenix, AZ
 > 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:44:51 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: The End is Near

At 01:28 PM 2/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Found this bit of cheer in the Monday Business section of the Dallas  
>Morning News:
>http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/tv/stories/ 
>020204dnbusoldsmobile.a3148.html
>
>May require free registration.
>
>I can post the entire story (not incredibly long) if desired.
>Ah, the heck with it, I'll do it anyway. It's an AP story, so it's  
>freely available as long as the copyright's intact:

The Yahoo link was posted yesterday and is here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=530&ncid=530&e=16&u=/ap/2004
0202/ap_on_bi_ge/end_of_oldsmobile

SteveH

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4764
*********************************
