
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, December 30 2003     Volume 01 : Number 4726



Re: Front Springs
Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint
Piston Info
Re: Front Springs
RE: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Piston Info
Re: Unsafe Driving ticket: how does it work?
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: 8.5" rear ID
Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?
Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint
Re: cam motion in excruciating detail - long and boring unless you are in on it.
Chroming at Paw Paw? 
Re: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?
Re: Chroming at Paw Paw? 
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?
Vinyl Top Stuff
Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )
Anyone got '87 90th anniversary Lansing Photos? '68 with L-69 & OAI? 
Seeking Arizona Olds help
RE: Obtained rare bare '990-4A 403 block as well... 
RE: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:17:37 -0500
From: "Marty McLeod" <marty.regena@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Front Springs

> Do you have AC???
>
No I don't have AC.  If I use a heavy duty spring like the 5450 is it going
to increase the ride height over stock or is it going to be a
thicker/heavier coil?

> Moog #5450
> load height = 12.0"
> load = 1642 pounds
> load rate = 454 pounds per inch
> free height = 15.616"

Marty McLeod
69 Cutlass S Convertible 455

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:39:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Geo <geogeethree@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint

That's why i avoided responding to the post too.  I
have a few pics of what i ended up using (Eastwoods)
here:

http://groups.msn.com/72w29/auto.msnw

>From what i remember of the original gray, this one
was close enough for me.

Geo
'72 442
Digest Mode

____________________________________________


> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:34:33 -0400 (AST)
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint
> 
> The problem was that the orginal poster did NOT want
a close 
alternative,
but the real thing when it came to paint. I doubt any
of us has access 
to
the codes and formulas GM used. So we necessarily use
a close 
alternative. 
I used a GM truck body paint in a metallic gray that
was recommended as
a close match, and it looks great to my eyes. But that
wasn't what was
asked for.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth,
Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info:
http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:18:22 -0500
From: "Mike Stilwell" <Fleetsuper@msn.com>
Subject: Piston Info

Folks:

Can anybody share some info, and opinions on Zollner cast pistons?
There is a seller on eBay getting rid of a bunch of sets of pistons in
various bore sizes.  Just wanted to get some info from the pros.

I see that it is now safe to ask this question without ruining a bid someone
might have since most, if not all of the "no reserve" auctions have closed
and replaced with much higher opening bids.  However, I do have my concerns
that there may be some shill bidding going on, as well as closing of
auctions early for the fear someone might pick up a set for a buck.


Mike Stilwell  OCA #13273
President - Capitol City Rockets
http://www.bigmikes442.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:45:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Front Springs

Marty,



> > Do you have AC???
> >
> No I don't have AC.  If I use a heavy duty spring like the 5450 is it
going
> to increase the ride height over stock or is it going to be a
> thicker/heavier coil?
>
> > Moog #5450
> > load height = 12.0"
> > load = 1642 pounds
> > load rate = 454 pounds per inch
> > free height = 15.616"


MOOG #5382
load height = 11.0"
load = 2066 pounds
load rate = 360 pounds per inch
free height = 16.724"

5450
spring motion distance = 3.616"
3.616 x 454 = 1641.664 pounds

5382
spring motion distance = 5.724"
5.724 x 360 = 2060.64 pounds
(Slight discrepancy)

That extra 2" in height more than makes up the difference in load rate.

The 442 shouldn't dive lower than a minimum 12" spring height in a corner.
The 454 pound rate helps prevent that. Also, there may be a rubber
suspension stop set to prevent it on an original 442. The stock A-body is
allowed to have a taller range of motion with a rubber bumper set at an 11"
spring compression minimum. The softer spring rate on the 5382 gives a
little better ride feel while the 5450 will be more choppy and harsh.
However, the 5450 will give more firm control in all attitudes over the
5382, all other components being equal.

On my '64-'65 A-bodies, I use a 333 pound load rate front spring. Thunder
weighs 3200 pounds and the other '64 Cutlass and the '65 F-85 don't go over
3400. That's lighter than your car, but a 333 pound front spring is as stiff
as I want to go. A 454 pound front spring would feel very harsh on the front
of my cars. The same would apply to the '65 Vista Cruiser. There's an upper
limit that I'll take a spring to for ride comfort, and then correct the rest
of the ride control with the right sway bars, poly bushings, and my new
swear-by shock, the Edelbrock IAS.

If you want to keep the front end low, then the 5450 442 front
spring would probably work the best, as long as you don't object to any
harshness. However, the 5382 spring might do wonders for your application,
even though it's from a '70-'72, but the front end could gain 1" in ride
height. The only way to know for sure is to try it. There's way too many
variables to be absolutely certain just by
reading the spring specs.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:35:05 -0500
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: RE: Classic Car Insurance

David,

I'm currently looking into insuring the W-31 through Grundy Worldwide
(www.grundy.com).  Much like Hagerty, they have an "agreed upon" coverage
value with no need for an appraisal, although it won't hurt to have one, and
very low premiums.  They are also A++ rated on their coverages.  As
aforementioned, they do require you to have a primary vehicle and must keep
your collector car garaged when not in use.  They make you sign a "youthful
endorsement form" stating that no one under the age of 25 will drive the car
as well as a "usage liability" form stating that you won't need to drive the
car to work everyday and such.  However, they do understand that you will
indeed use your car for "pleasure driving" (to and from shows, on weekends,
etc.) so they DO NOT have an annual mileage cap...you can drive the car as
much as you'd like.  They also understand that if you go to a show or
something similar, the car will most likely remain outside for a few
evenings.  Straight from my agent's mouth, this is all covered.  Hagerty
advertises no deductible in some states (I'm not sure which) - Grundy has a
$500 to start with, or you can pay extra (per year) for $300 or 0$.  For my
car, at agreed upon value, the yearly cost to insure with Grundy would be
$251 which includes $300,000 comprehensive and the $300 deductible.  So far
so good, but I have yet to complete the application process...so I'll keep
you guys posted.  Just some food for thought!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:55:27 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Piston Info

Mike,

> Can anybody share some info, and opinions on Zollner cast pistons?


Cast pistons are fine for stock applications. I used Jahns cast pistons in
both my first engine, the 394 Olds, and the second, the 331 Chrysler hemi.
Neither were stock. When the 394 and the '59 98 she was in were retired in
'73, the piston skirts were collapsed a little. When the idiot who bought my
'23 "T" roadster with the hemi blew the engine, the piston skirts weren't
just collapsed, they were crumpled.

If you're building a stock Olds for standard performance use, cast pistons
would be fine. If you're building a high performance engine, even just for
street use, then I would use standard forged (TRW/Sealed Power) pistons at a
bare minimum and ultra-light weight forged pistons for very long term high
performance.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:54:10 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unsafe Driving ticket: how does it work?

>Connecticut has something similar called, guess what...
>
>"Failure to drive right."
>
>Yep  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

As of the new year, here in Illinois you can get a $75 ticket for driving in 
the passing lane when not actually passing anybody, or otherwise going so 
slowly there that people are passing you on the right. Thoroughly 
unenforceable, of course; the cops have better things to do just sitting on 
the side of the road with their radar blazing away, but it's nice to see at 
least some token lip service being given to left-lane bandits.

I used to flush them out of the way with my headlight flashers, but 
realistically I find it safer to pass them on the right _myself_ when it's 
safe to do so, as opposed to having the offending nitwit suddenly notice my 
headlights and lurch into the right lane without looking.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:57:25 EST
From: HotRodHarrys@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

- --part1_1eb.1662dba4.2d22fa65_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

If any of you guys have newer collector cars...as in even 2004 and you dont 
drive them that much...like me....www.parishheacock.com helps out alot in that 
area. With the classics I used Grundy and Hagerty..great companies. But for 
the Extreme Hot Rods and newer Collector Cars...Parish cant be beat. They were 
the only company that would insure my 03 Cobra's and Mach 1 and my 78 Mid 
Engine 442.

Harry
www.HotRodHarrys.com
Yep..I just bought another 2003 brand new Mustang Cobra..car 78 owned
Its on my webpage.

- --part1_1eb.1662dba4.2d22fa65_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">If any of you guys have newer colle=
ctor cars...as in even 2004 and you dont drive them that much...like me....w=
ww.parishheacock.com helps out alot in that area. With the classics I used G=
rundy and Hagerty..great companies. But for the Extreme Hot Rods and newer C=
ollector Cars...Parish cant be beat. They were the only company that would i=
nsure my 03 Cobra's and Mach 1 and my 78 Mid Engine 442.<BR>
<BR>
Harry<BR>
<A HREF=3D"www.HotRodHarrys.com">www.HotRodHarrys.com</A><BR>
Yep..I just bought another 2003 brand new Mustang Cobra..car 78 owned<BR>
Its on my webpage.</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_1eb.1662dba4.2d22fa65_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:09:37 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: 8.5" rear ID

> 8.5" posi rear out of an 85 442

> Can
> someone provide me with some measurements or ID numbers or something that
> would be a dead giveaway to a G-body rear?

GM parts catalog lists the following codes for '85 Olds G-body 8.50 posi rears:

3.42 - 8TP
3.73 - 8TR
3.73 - 8TH
3.73 - 9TR

"A tag containing information for axle code identification is located on the front face of the left hand brake hub mounting bracket."

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:16:32 -0600
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?

All,
	Can anyone suggest a contact cleaner to remove the white oxidation
in my fuse box?
	I checked radio shack and they have a cleaner & lubricant for TV
tubes, no straight up cleaner, and I didn't see anything @ AutoZone for
electrical cleaners.

Thoughts?

Thanks!


Steve Reed 
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice 
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode) 
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine) 
'98 Honda Civic (For Sale!!) 
Austin, TX 
http://www.sreed.0catch.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:34:00 -0600
From: Jeff.Easton@abbott.com
Subject: Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint

When I did my SSII rims a few years back, I used this paint

Napa pickup and van color
77-5130
Charcoal Gray
Code AA-9

It was recommended to me by an Olds guy in Indiana.
I bought a spray can of it and wound up taking it
to the local body shop with the rims and they
matched the codes.

Its not "correct" but its close enough for me.  Like
Greg said, exact match on a paint 30+ years old
is going to be difficult.  Even the shine from
the clearcoat is going to make them look different. :-)

- -Jeff
Jeff Easton
Grayslake, ILL
1970  442  4-Speed
see the Olds archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton


>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:34:33 -0400 (AST)
>From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>The problem was that the orginal poster did NOT want a close alternative,
>but the real thing when it came to paint. I doubt any of us has access to
>the codes and formulas GM used. So we necessarily use a close alternative.
>I used a GM truck body paint in a metallic gray that was recommended as
>a close match, and it looks great to my eyes. But that wasn't what was
>asked for.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:38:05 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cam motion in excruciating detail - long and boring unless you are in on it.

>Olds- Dist on LH side of cam
>cam spins dist/ oil pump CCW, therefore pushing fwd on the RH side of the
>dist gear where they meet
>Therefore, that dist gear pushes rearward on the cam's gear, Newton's Law.
>Rearward motion limited by the OD on cam front against block.
>Fwd motion, should it attempt to occur, limited by cam bolt to timing cover
>contact.

Disagree - again.
You're forgetting the resistance of the oil the oil pump has to move.
===========
Au contraire, sir. That is exactly what I am including. In fact, that is 
pretty much the ONLY load that the cam gear drives. Distributor/ points is 
totally negligible.

Go get an old cam and a distributor and look at them in your hands.
===========
OK, if you insist.
Actually, I have at this time the mental image and the CSM pictures. And the 
photos of the 4A 403 block of recent acquisition. All say the same thing.


Notice the direction the gears are cut. The cam gear rotates to the right of 
the engine,
=========
Er, only on the bottom. The top of the cam gear travels to the engine's 
LEFT.

Speaking Left and Right... Let's get this thing straight right off the bat. 
Left and Right are VERY SUBJECTIVE as are CW and CCW [Clockwise and 
counterclockwide], and they TOTALLY DEPEND ON THE OBSERVER'S POINT OF VIEW. 
Does the driver sit on your right or on the left? Answer depends on whether 
you are facing same direction as the ca...r or backwards. Does the 
distributor rotate CW or CCW? Depends on whether you look at the TOP or the 
BOTTOM of it. Does the engine rotate CW or CCW?  Depends on whether you are 
facing the FRONT or the BACK of the engine. Since ya gotta pick one, most of 
the world runs with this:

1) For seating, fender selection, manifold selection, and 99% of car talk, 
LH vs. RH is determined as if you ARE the vehicle, facing forward in the 
usual direction of motion. No fair facing backwards and then delcaring that 
the U.S. driver is on "your right hand side". The _car's_ L and R are ALWAYS 
the car's L and R, no matter HOW you face, flip the car, reverse it, etc. 
[Well, unless you look at it in a mirror, but let's not throw THAT in here 
just yet...]

2) for whatever reason, the ENGINE ROTATION is spoken of while facing 
car-backwards, that is, while facing the front of the engine. For example, 
we say that the Olds V8 operates CLOCKWISE [and so does its cam of course] 
even though the DRIVER, facing FORWARD from the OTHER END of the engine, 
would assert that y'all are crazy, the engine [and cam] is OBVIOUSLY running 
CCW.

Does a clock rotate to the left or to the right? That depends: at the TOP, 
the hands move right, at the bottom, they move left. Unless you are BEHIND 
the clock. See the convolutions we can get into here?  For the remainder of 
this discussion, let's run with the usual conventions 1) and 2) set forth 
above. Engine runs CW as viewed from the front, dist'r runs CCW as viewed 
from above, and US driver sits on the car's LH side.


spinning the distributor gear counter-clockwise,
=========
ayep. As viewed from above. [ALWAYS include the viewpoint].

which means toward the right of the engine.
===========
No, sir. rear of dist'r gear moves rightward, front of it moves leftward. We 
are using the CAR's L and R here, recall.

The distributor sits to the left of the cam.
========
Agreed. It's on the R to an observer facing backwards to the car, so, yeah, 
on the CAR's LH side.

That motion has a tendency to push the cam away from the distributor gear,
========
what? There is, to be sure, a minimal separation force as with any gear, but 
the whole idea of gears is to transmit force in the DESIRED direction.
............[And _I_ cannot find an _engineering job_  ?????]
That is, in the direction tangential to the gear, which induces rotation of 
the output shaft. Forces not tangential to the gear do not contribute to the 
rotational motion! Thus they are intentionally minimized by design.
   The motion pushes the RH side [where it contacts the cam gear] of the 
dist gear FWD, that's how we get the dist'r to rotate CCW as viewed from 
above. Surely you agree with that.
   Furthermore, that force is not at all negligible, as anyone who has 
primed their oil pump with a drill can attest; the oil pump requires no 
small tork [much, much more than spinning the distributor].
   Now the crux of my argument: The counteraction to that force which causes 
the dist gear to turn...  is the dist'r gear pushing back on the cam, which 
forces the cam REARWARD. Newton's Law, you cannot avoid it. Pushing me also 
pushes you. Surely you accept that fact?!

since the distributor isn't moving, except upward, if it had the chance.
==========
   1) Neither is the cam. They both just rotate. Well, and they slop back 
and forth a little bit axially within the confines of travel as limited by 
what they bump into by design.
   2) The action of the cam, since the dist'r is on the side of the cam gear 
which is traveling downward, is to force the dist'r gear at all times 
DOWNWARD against the flat thrust surface in the block there. You can see 
that wear on the block and on the bottom of any dist'r gear. Conversely, the 
cam tends to be lifted upward at the gear by the reaction to that force. In 
effect, it is always "climbing up" the dist'r gear.

Also, the torque required to move the oil has an opposite reaction against 
the cam gear, further trying to drive the cam forward.
===========
Arrrr, matey, that's where your argument fails.
With all due respect, sir, I am not the confused one on this point.
And, I have eaten enough crow to leave wiggle room unless I an well over 
100% sure.
You need to go over the above scenario again until you gets it right.
cam pushes RH side of dist gear FWD, therefore:
dist pushes LH side of cam gear BACKWARDS.
Lifters push maybe ever so slightly F and B as the cam attempts to spin them 
during operation. [Negligible]

That's why the cam bumper button is there. Otherwise, it wouldn't be needed.
============
That is SO not true. Look at the teensy little contact area. Now look at the 
true thrust contact surface, where cam meets block. It's HUGE, big diameter, 
and totally oiled by the leakage from the front cam bearing. The cam bolt to 
timing cover can live with a 1/2" dia contact patch, at best, precisely 
because it is almost NEVER USED. In fact, the only time I have ever seen any 
evidence of contact at that point was an engine that suffered a severe front 
end crash which crammed the water pump hard into the timing cover and bent 
the timing cover right into the cam bolt. While it was running.
  I am still trying to figure out why they felt the roller cam 307's needed 
a spring loaded cam thrust button between cam and timing cover. What force 
could possibly induce the cam to come forward? Deceleration of the entire 
vehicle, I guess.

The flange on the cam front limits how far back the cam can go.
========
Agreed. That much is obvious.

Handy for engine assembly, but mostly, it's along for the ride and prevents 
the cam timing gear and timing chain from getting into any mischief.
Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com
==============
There's your confusion. It's the tip of the cam bolt vs the timing cover 
that is "along for the ride and prevents the cam timing gear and timing 
chain from getting into any mischief." It's just to control endplay and 
forward travel should conditions ever arise that encourage it.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:51:24 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Chroming at Paw Paw? 

Hey, Chris, others

I too have a few lids that should be re-chromed
I would like to get some rocker covers done too.
Can they do old used painted and oily parts? How clean do they have to be?
Maybe we can get together a sizable order and get a Big Fat Discount or 
something.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days






Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:04:58 -0500
From: Timothy O'Guin <leix26@comcast.net>
Subject: re: chrome shop

Chris,
A guy from work has a 1940 Ford and had bumpers and other
items chromed at a place in Paw Paw, Michigan. He is very
happy with the results. I have not seen them so I can not
comment. Paw Paw is in the SW portion of Mich. and map quest
lists it being 126 miles from Chicago. It may be worth a call.
Paw Paw Plating
(269) 657-5555
Ask for Jeff Burza

Hope this helps,
Tim O'Guin


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:37:04 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: chrome shop


Greetings all,
I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a chrome shop.  I know 
there
is Tri-city plating down in TN, but do they chrome things that aren't 
bumpers?
I have the OAI lid for my 69 W-31 air cleaner that I need to get rechromed 
and
I'm looking for a shop that does excellent or better work.
===================

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:56:16 -0500
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?

  Steve,
    Any auto parts store should carry CRC  get a can of that for elec
cleaner.
If you have a marine (boat) store around they to have a very wide range of
cleaners on their shelves. The marine store will also have contact cover to
protect the clean contacts after you have sprayed them down, in some cases
you will have to take a brass brush to some terminals.
john
67 cutlass supreme
Subject: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?


> Can anyone suggest a contact cleaner to remove the white oxidation
> in my fuse box?
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:54:55 -0500
From: Michael McDonald <McDonald_M@72ho.com>
Subject: Re: Chroming at Paw Paw? 

On Tuesday Chris Witt wrote:

>Hey, Chris, others
>
>I too have a few lids that should be re-chromed
>I would like to get some rocker covers done too.
>Can they do old used painted and oily parts? How clean do they have to be?
>Maybe we can get together a sizable order and get a Big Fat Discount or 
>something.
>
>-----------------------
>Chris Witt
>1303 W. Miller Rd.
>Lansing MI 48911
>
>RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
>Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
>Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>

Chris Witt and the other Chris,

I too have at lease two lids that need re-chrome and maybe a set of valve 
covers for my Hurst Olds. Count me in on any 'deal' you guys come up with. 

Best wishes,
Mike McDonald
McDonald_M@72ho.com

1972 Hurst/Olds sunroof coupe
    "as seen on Speed TV"
   The American Musclecar    
            or
        www.72ho.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:56:41 -0600
From: Dave Popadic <davepopadic@core.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

Thanks for the info everyone.  I've contacted both Grundy and Hagerty
and because I wanted to drive my car to work, like 10 times a year,
they won't touch me.  Weird, they don't seem to care that I drive the
car from here to kingdom come, but say you're driving it to work a
couple of times a year and forget it.  Oh well.... Guess I'll just
keep my current insurance.


Daniel> David,

Daniel> I'm currently looking into insuring the W-31 through Grundy Worldwide
Daniel> (www.grundy.com).  Much like Hagerty, they have an "agreed upon" coverage
Daniel> value with no need for an appraisal, although it
Daniel> won't hurt to have one, and
Daniel> very low premiums.  They are also A++ rated on their coverages.  As
Daniel> aforementioned, they do require you to have a primary vehicle and must keep
Daniel> your collector car garaged when not in use.  They make you sign a "youthful
Daniel> endorsement form" stating that no one under the age of 25 will drive the car
Daniel> as well as a "usage liability" form stating that you won't need to drive the
Daniel> car to work everyday and such.  However, they do understand that you will
Daniel> indeed use your car for "pleasure driving" (to and from shows, on weekends,
Daniel> etc.) so they DO NOT have an annual mileage cap...you can drive the car as
Daniel> much as you'd like.  They also understand that if you go to a show or
Daniel> something similar, the car will most likely remain outside for a few
Daniel> evenings.  Straight from my agent's mouth, this is all covered.  Hagerty
Daniel> advertises no deductible in some states (I'm not sure which) - Grundy has a
Daniel> $500 to start with, or you can pay extra (per year) for $300 or 0$.  For my
Daniel> car, at agreed upon value, the yearly cost to insure with Grundy would be
Daniel> $251 which includes $300,000 comprehensive and the $300 deductible.  So far
Daniel> so good, but I have yet to complete the application process...so I'll keep
Daniel> you guys posted.  Just some food for thought!

Daniel>  ~ Dan

Daniel> -------------------------------------
Daniel> Daniel R. Gerow
Daniel> '70 W-31 4spd post
Daniel> dgerow@stonehill.edu
Daniel> http://www.oldsrocket.com
Daniel> -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:45:16 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?

The Radio Shack stuff will work fine. Apply it with a toothbrush and scrub.
Blow out the residue with compressed air.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Reed" <ssreed@direcway.com>
To: "Olds" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: Electrical Contact Cleaner (Fuse box)?


> All,
> Can anyone suggest a contact cleaner to remove the white oxidation
> in my fuse box?
> I checked radio shack and they have a cleaner & lubricant for TV
> tubes, no straight up cleaner, and I didn't see anything @ AutoZone for
> electrical cleaners.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Steve Reed
> '96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
> '70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode)
> '68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine)
> '98 Honda Civic (For Sale!!)
> Austin, TX
> http://www.sreed.0catch.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:13:26 -0600
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: Vinyl Top Stuff

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Hello everyone...

Okay, I know I started this thread a while ago, but I have
acquired some more information that I want to run by you...

1) Do *not* use Armor-All

2) A friendly Wal-Mart associate told me that her husband
used    Vasoline on their old Caddy vinyl top.

3) A friendly AutoZone associate told me that he used baby
oil on his vinyl top...

Any comments on this? Or, should I just break down and
order the top treatment online?

- --Branson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:25:31 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )

Those are sweet. I see that they already offer the correct pivot shaft, 
but there are two questions that need to be answered:
1) how long is the GW big-brake upper control arm from center of pivot 
shaft to center of ball-joint? Pole Position has two ranges for that 
dimension.
2) which ball joint is appropriate? I seem to recall that the G-bodies 
can use their stock upper ball joint, so the GM Metric ball joint would 
seem to be appropriate. Or was that the lower ball joint. Poop. I'll 
see what I can find on the various "big-brake" articles that I've 
stashed.

Both of these would need to be answered for the UB Machine parts as 
well...

krw
On Dec 30, 2003, at 1:17 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:07:50 EST
> From: KS7RACING@aol.com
> Subject: Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with 
> Disk Brakes )
>
> Listmembers,
>
> I won't knock UB Machine (have met one of the Urbine brothers before 
> at a
> racer's auction, and have some of their parts for eventual 
> installation on
> Grace), but there is a place that builds a really slick upper control 
> arm that's
> adjustable in it's length and for camber without changing the usual 
> shims like
> the stock arms do.  Look up Pole Position Race Products
> (www.polepositionrp.com), they have a really slick upper control arm 
> design.
>
> Take Care,
> Ken Snyder
> Kansas City, Kansas
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Euless, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:06:01 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Anyone got '87 90th anniversary Lansing Photos? '68 with L-69 & OAI? 

So, I was looking over old photo albums with the kids from way back when I 
met my wife, 90th anniversary Olds gig in Lansing. 1987 it'd be.

Here among the cars is a 1968 442? Maybe H/O, judging by the grille... 
with....
Oh My!!!
Tri-carb setup!!
complete with the coveted OAI air cleaner and hoses for W30.

Now, OK, that's exciting enough, that they did all that, but I swear that 
one photo shows a BLACK STRIPE along the top of the fender, JUST LIKE AN 
H/O.

Does anyone else recall seeing a 1968 442 or H/O at that gathering, or 
anywhere else, EVER, with the complete OAI Tri-carb setup?

If so, any info or pix would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks...

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed 
providers now.  https://broadband.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:12:52 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Seeking Arizona Olds help

Milton's very busy
Is there anyone else who could get an engine block, bare block, from Miami 
AZ and either get it to Phoenix area or store it until the family in Phx 
area can get it?

This is a preliminary investigation to see if it can be done at all...
If it works out, you can be famous. Or, not, as you wish.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work —  and 
yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:56:25 -0500
From: "Christian Sager" <chris.sager@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Obtained rare bare '990-4A 403 block as well... 

Interested in selling that 403 block?

Christian

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Christopher Witt
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:09 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Obtained rare bare '990-4A 403 block as well... 

So, ok, the exotic heretofore unseen Tri-carb intake is pretty exciting 
stuff, for me anyhow, I get off on the unusual. Thus the 442 and not a
Chevy 
I guess.

We go back into the back to get the dismantled project 403 out, it's all

tore down. The block is covered, more or less, with a black plastic bag.

Hustle it onto the hand truck. I take a quick gander at the casting ID,
see 
a "4A", and jokingly announce "hey, the SOLID MAIN WEB 403, cool!"

After a minute, The Man says, hey, wait a minute, lemme look at that... 
Well, jeez, I replies, not only are they "Mythical," but this one is the

usual "not even possibly...." er ah, wait a minute, HEY, this IS the
fabled 
"4A" 554990 block of LORE!!!! The only other one I have ever had is
still in 
the 1975 Cutlass over at Mom's.

So, now I have in my possession, the long sought 554990-4A [not '265-4B]

block!
I found:
VIN stamp 37M?????? or 37X??????- too rusty to tell except the "1977
Olds" 
part.
EUN 7276007 on OFTube confirms 1977 issue.
HEI numbered 1103457-4A??
Rear face of block in the Usual F-Place: "F 2" with "714" under that. [F
2 
??? go figure]

Also have [for sale now]:
Redone 4A heads, good for regular 403's I guess.
Nice fresh .010/.010 403 crank
Rods with stock pistons
Oil pan
All the other usual parts. #16 intake, etc.
Ah, specimen "3362" was very interesting indeed.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work -  and

yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:17:50 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )

Answering one of my own questions.
GM used the same ball-joint in pretty much every rear-wheel-drive 
application from '73-96:

Moog K5208 (Metric Midsize) (Buick All 84-71, Apollo 1975, Century 
81-73, Electra estate Wagon 90-85, GNX 87-73, Grand national 87-73, 
LeSabre 1985, LeSabre estate Wagon 90-85,Regal 87-83, Riviera 85-79, 
Roadmaster 96-91, Roadmaster estate Wagon 96-91, Skylark 79-75; 
Cadillac all 84-77, Broamaster estate Wagon 96-91, Skylark 79-75; 
Cadillac all 84-77, Brougham 92-87, Eldorado 85-79, Fleetwood 96-93, 
86-85, Seville 85-76; Chevrolet Astro 96-85, Belair 85-71, Biscayne 
85-71, Brookwood 72-71, Camaro 81-70, Caprice 96-71, Chevelle 88-73, 
Chevy ll 79-75, Ei Camino 88-73, Impala 85-71, Impala SS 96-94, 
Kingswood 72-71, Malibu 88-73, Monte Carlo 88-73, Nova 79-75, S10 
Blazer 92-82, S10 Truck 92-82, Townsman 72-71; GMC Caballero truck 
87-78, Jimmy 1992, S15 Jimmy 91-83, S15 Truck 90-82, Safari 96-85, 
Sonoma 92-91, Sprint 77-73; Oldsmobile 442 7-73, 88 84-71, 98 84-71, 
Custom Cruiser 92-71, Cutlass 87-73, Cutlass Supreme 1988, Delta 1985, 
F-85 87-73, Hurst 87-73, Omega 79-75, Toronado 85-79; Pontiac 
Bonneville 86-71, Catalina 86-71, Firebird 81-70, GTO 1974, Grand 
Lemans 1982, Grand Prix 87-73, Grandville 86-71, Lemans 81-73, 
Parisienne 86-83, Phoenix 79-77, Safari 89-87, Trans Am 81-74, Ventura 
77-75) 2"/ft. taper

So, that one's answered. We know that the lower ball joint is from the 
the same applications, and can be turned down to fit the 68-72 LCA.

Next: someone measure their Global West UCAs! :)

krw

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: December 30, 2003 4:25:31 PM CST
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with 
> Disk Brakes )
>
> Those are sweet. I see that they already offer the correct pivot 
> shaft, but there are two questions that need to be answered:
> 1) how long is the GW big-brake upper control arm from center of pivot 
> shaft to center of ball-joint? Pole Position has two ranges for that 
> dimension.
> 2) which ball joint is appropriate? I seem to recall that the G-bodies 
> can use their stock upper ball joint, so the GM Metric ball joint 
> would seem to be appropriate. Or was that the lower ball joint. Poop. 
> I'll see what I can find on the various "big-brake" articles that I've 
> stashed.
>
> Both of these would need to be answered for the UB Machine parts as 
> well...
>
> krw
> On Dec 30, 2003, at 1:17 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:07:50 EST
>> From: KS7RACING@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame 
>> with Disk Brakes )
>>
>> Listmembers,
>>
>> I won't knock UB Machine (have met one of the Urbine brothers before 
>> at a
>> racer's auction, and have some of their parts for eventual 
>> installation on
>> Grace), but there is a place that builds a really slick upper control 
>> arm that's
>> adjustable in it's length and for camber without changing the usual 
>> shims like
>> the stock arms do.  Look up Pole Position Race Products
>> (www.polepositionrp.com), they have a really slick upper control arm 
>> design.
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Ken Snyder
>> Kansas City, Kansas
> On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...
>
> Kevin Wright
>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Euless, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4726
*********************************
