
oldsmobile-digest      Monday, February 2 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4763



UNBOUNCE: printed circuit board for 67 olds 442
Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: Tool-wire hub caps
reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: Found that elusive 455 block, killed it too
63 Olds carb
Re: Delta 88 question (1968)
Re: Tool-wire hub caps
Re: reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: Delta 88 question (1968)
Re: 63 Olds carb
Re: 63 Olds carb
Re: reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Anyone know Lincolns?
Re: Delta 88 question (1968)
Re: Anyone know Lincolns?
RE:  lapping new valves (not Olds)
Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....
Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....
Re: Tool-wire hub caps
Re: Cruise control help
Re: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds
RE: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds
Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: man seeks OF adapter for 1952 Olds 303 engine? 
Seeks 1964 Cs pcs
Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem
Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:19:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: printed circuit board for 67 olds 442

Not on the list, respond to msutton@ITape.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   "Mike Sutton" <msutton@ITape.com>
Subject: printed circuit board for 67 olds 442

I am looking for a printed circuit board for a 1967 Oldss 442-Not sure
what other oldsmobiles have the same circuit board.please e-mail or call
me with any info 
 
msutton@itape.com
 
404/817/7536
 
Thanks
 mike Sutton

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:25:09 EST
From: Kato111@aol.com
Subject: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds

- -------------------------------1075677909
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What is the easiest way to determine if my 63 Olds super 88 has a Saginaw or 
Thompson  front end?    Would the plant where the car was manufactured 
determine which type was installed in the car?
Thanks,  Bill 

- -------------------------------1075677909
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2734.1600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>What is the easiest way to determine if my 63 Olds super 88 has a Sagin=
aw or Thompson&nbsp; front end?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Would the plant where=
 the car was manufactured&nbsp;determine which type was installed in the car=
?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,&nbsp; Bill&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1075677909--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:56:48 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

> Then further, does the use of the more aggressive timing in an
> EGR-equipped car cause other issues, either emissions-wise or
> performance-wise?
>


I once did a comparison at the track and ran an average of one tenth slower with the EGR disconnected. In fairness
however, no timing or jetting changes were made.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:58:25 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

  there are several kits for removeing wheel and hub cap locks. name brand to  el cheapo brand. they
work in most cases
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps


  > > Does anyone know if the tool to remove wire hub caps are all the same or
  > do they differ from year to year or from model to model ?
  >
  > ---------------------
  >
  > The idea of these was to prevent theft.  Wouldn't work too well if they were
  > all the same for the same year and model car, would it?  There are a whole
  > bunch of different "keys" for these.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Fred
  >
  >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:12:14 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

> So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
> top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've
ever
> been to.


Never heard of Seafoam, but the GM product is only available from GM parts
departments.


> I figure I want to do this step (if it works) before trying Milton's
diesel
> oil ring reseating treatment.


That was Shell Aeroshell aviation oil. However, it looks like the new
formulation of Mobil 1 10/30 synthetic oil will do the same thing, and do it
better, in older car engines. I'm using it now in the '65 F-85's 330.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:29:57 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Found that elusive 455 block, killed it too

And even IF it contained more Ni, it still does not necessarily mean it is 
harder. We had this discussion before. My take on it, is that ALL 455 
blocks are equal, 68-76.

George

At 04:35 PM 2/1/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>At 10:05 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >"F1" on the rear face.
> >The elusive "F1" "High Nickel" content block [another bullshirt
> >rumor, if ya ask me, anyhow]
>
>I suspect it's BS, too. My '67 425 has F5 on its rear face. I heard from
>someone else the F-code is just the casting mold that created that
>particular block, which makes a lot more sense than it representing the
>nickel content. My '88 307 block also has F5 IIRC.
>
>SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:44:34 EST
From: Kato111@aol.com
Subject: 63 Olds carb

- -------------------------------1075679074
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Which carb is applicable for a 63 Olds super 88 with the 394 cu in engine 
(Rochester model 4GC or 2GC)?  Does the 4GC mean 4 barrel carb?
Thanks
Bill

- -------------------------------1075679074
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2734.1600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Which carb is applicable for a 63 Olds super 88 with the 394 cu in engi=
ne (Rochester model 4GC or 2GC)?&nbsp; Does the 4GC mean 4 barrel carb?</DIV=
>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1075679074--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:51:24 -0500
From: "DanL" <danl@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 question (1968)

Ken,

Thanks for the reply.  Does that mean headers that fit a 68 Delta 88 will
fit the 98 or am I still forgetting something?

DanL
'68 98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 19:31:36 -0600
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Definitely many different variations of these--very
difficult to find, even in Ye Olde Yarde. I had a heck of a
time finding the wrench for mine, until I looked through,
in a last ditch effort, my grandfather's garage...

They're color-coded. The ones on my Delta 88 are blue... If
keeping the car OEM is not a concern, you could pound on a
wrench and pull 'em off, and replace them with regular
nuts, but that's not that great of an idea... I know that
Wal-Mart could take mine off before I found the wrench to
replace a tire.


- --Branson

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:58:25 -0500
 "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net> wrote:
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of
> CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>   there are several kits for removeing wheel and hub cap
> locks. name brand to  el cheapo brand. they
> work in most cases
>   ron
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
>   To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>   Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:16 AM
>   Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps
> 
> 
>   > > Does anyone know if the tool to remove wire hub
> caps are all the same or
>   > do they differ from year to year or from model to
> model ?
>   >
>   > ---------------------
>   >
>   > The idea of these was to prevent theft.  Wouldn't
> work too well if they were
>   > all the same for the same year and model car, would
> it?  There are a whole
>   > bunch of different "keys" for these.
>   >
>   > Regards,
>   > Fred
>   >
>   >
>   >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:23:05 -0500
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

> > So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam

Great stuff!!! I started stocking it a few months ago...everyone thought I
was nuts. Gave a few cans away...owner thought I was nuts. Can't keep it on
the shelf now.

Great for quieting lifters when dumped in the crankcase.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:40:08 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 question (1968)

> Thanks for the reply.  Does that mean headers that fit a 68 Delta 88 will
> fit the 98 or am I still forgetting something?

If a set of headers will fit '68 Delta 88, they will fit a '68 98.  The
problem is that there aren't any.   If there are, I'd like to know about it.
The relatively hard to find factory "S" manifold ('65-'67 big cars with the
"Starfire" engine and '68-'70 "Highway Patrol" 455) is the only way I know
of to add dual exhaust without lots of unacceptable compromises.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:34:50 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 63 Olds carb

> Which carb is applicable for a 63 Olds super 88 with the 394 cu in engine 
> (Rochester model 4GC or 2GC)? 

Super 88 would have had the 4GC just like the 98.

> Does the 4GC mean 4 barrel carb?  

Yes, that's what the "4" stands for.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:32:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 63 Olds carb

4GC = 4 barrel
2GC = 2 barrel

There were 394s with 2 barrels and 394s with 4 barrels.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:36:01 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: reseating rings; was carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

Randy,

What exactly is Seafoam and what does it do?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:30:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

The only thing I can say about this question is the following.

In late Spring '76, my mother purchased a new car, a '76 Chevy Impala
2-barrel 350. Two weeks after her purchase, I took the car down to Kahan
Chevy on a Saturday afternoon. My friend Dale (shop foreman) and I removed
the catalytic converter, the EGR, and the fuel vapor collection canister.
The fuel vapor return line at the gas tank was turned into a regular gas
tank open air vent. The ignition timing was set the same as a '65 300HP 327.

Her Impala then ran just as strong and fast, on the 2-barrel, as the Kahan
sales manager's 4-barreled 454 Caprice demo. That's really how badly the 454
ran. Her average fuel mileage hit 20 mpg.

That car came to Tucson in '82 after my mother died. I installed true dual
exhaust with 2 fake cats (hollowed out inside) and an Edelbrock high rise
with a 600 CFM AFB. She passed all subsequent emissions checks perfectly. No
other changes were ever made.

At 145K miles in '91-'92, she lost several intake valves, burned to a crisp.
She was then retired.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


> I once did a comparison at the track and ran an average of one tenth
slower with the EGR disconnected. In fairness
> however, no timing or jetting changes were made.
>
> Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:26:39 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Anyone know Lincolns?

Bro picked up a 92 Mark VII LSC. Very nice (wish my Olds was that quiet).
Anyway, it shifts really hard and won't go into 4th gear. There's a rubber
grommet on the carb linkage that looks like there oughta be some rod or
other there. Does Ford use a TV cable to control their 4 speeds, or is there
a kickdown lever, or what is the mechanism to control tranny shifting?

Thanks.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 05:52:52 -0800 (PST)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 question (1968)

Dan  Yes, the factory manifolds will interchange. Dual
exhaust manifolds are rare but there are some out
there. If you find a dual setup also get the
transmission lever from the frame to the transmission.
It is shaped different so the exhaust pipe will clear.
 I am kinda into B-bodies also.  In the fleet around
here we have three 1966 Delta's two 1967 Delta's plus
a 1967 ninety eight, one 68 Delmont convertible, one
1968 ninety eight, one 1971 Delta convertible and a
1976 Regency. That is just half of the fleet. This
hobby is consuming me.  Later, Ken --- DanL
<danl@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  Does that mean headers that
> fit a 68 Delta 88 will
> fit the 98 or am I still forgetting something?
> 
> DanL
> '68 98
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 06:03:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian LeFain <slefain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know Lincolns?

Re: Anyone know Lincolns?

More than I should. I've had 3 Mark VII's. The trans
is probably dead. The TV Cable bushing is made of
plastic and can fall out. If it does, then the trans
line pressure drops and it burns up. You say carb,
that car should be EFI. If it was swapped over to a
carb, you will need to get a TV cable linkage setup
from TCI or scrounge one from a TBI Ford in the
junkyard. How is the air ride suspension? I have a
pretty good website dedicated to these cars,
http://lsc.netherealm.net/index.html

There is also a big group of guys at FordvsChevy.com
that are Lincoln nuts. Those cars are cool, but if you
don't do your own work, the $$$ will add up quick at
the dealer.

Brian M


- --- Dave Cullen <david.cullen@snet.net> wrote:
> Bro picked up a 92 Mark VII LSC. Very nice (wish my
> Olds was that quiet).
> Anyway, it shifts really hard and won't go into 4th
> gear. There's a rubber
> grommet on the carb linkage that looks like there
> oughta be some rod or
> other there. Does Ford use a TV cable to control
> their 4 speeds, or is there
> a kickdown lever, or what is the mechanism to
> control tranny shifting?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> drc
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:33:25 -0600
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: RE:  lapping new valves (not Olds)

Dave,

>My bro is attempting a refresh on a Briggs 5hp snow blower motor. He wants
>to know if he can lap a new set of valves in without machining the block.

>drc

Yes it can be done.  But I'd spend a couple bucks since he's got the entire thing apart and have a machine shop grind the two valves and seats.  It should only cost $5.00 per valve & seat.

If he doesn't wanna spend any money, wire brush the valves clean, and also around the seats.  Then use valve grinding compound to seat them.  He can then use prussian blue on the valve face to see where the two faces are mating.  Or you can use my easy method of using chalk scribes on the valve face and then rotate the valve in the guide/seat assembly, and see where mating areas are.  Of course you want it to be centered on the valve face so you don't burn an exhaust valve.

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode)
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine)
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:39:49 -0600
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....

All,
	I just did tranny service on my daily driver this weekend.  As this is my first automatic equipped car, can anyone tell me the best way to determine fluid level on the dipstick?
	When I was filling it, I got to the point where fluid started to touch the bone dry dipstick.  I added more, but it's so hard to tell where the fluid level is because there is no dry spot above a certain level, like when you check the engine oil, and the fluid is so clean and new.

Any tips are appreciated!

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode)
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine)
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 06:49:12 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....

Let it sit for a few minutes and check it again. Often, after you add fluid, it will line the dipstick tube walls and
smear on the dipstick as you remove it, making the level difficult to read.

Kevin


> I just did tranny service on my daily driver this weekend.  As this is my first automatic equipped car, can anyone
tell me the best way to determine fluid level on the dipstick?
> When I was filling it, I got to the point where fluid started to touch the bone dry dipstick.  I added more, but it's
so hard to tell where the fluid level is because there is no dry spot above a certain level, like when you check the
engine oil, and the fluid is so clean and new.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:17:50 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

> Does anyone know if the tool to remove wire hub caps are all the same or do
> they differ from year to year or from model to model ?

You should be able to use that tool on both sets of caps *IF* the lock bolt colors are the same.  If the bolts are different colors then they wont work.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:38:57 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cruise control help

>Someone sent me the GM wiring diagram for the criuse control and
>I hooked up the hoses correctly.  However since then it still does
>not work and it snapped two speedomoter cables (the part broken
>was the cable from the transmission to the transducer).

I think your conclusion is correct: the transducer is probably seizing 
occasionally, possibly through either heat or cold, or otherwise is dragging 
on the speedo cable core until a high-enough road speed simply shears it 
off.

At this point I'd say you have nothing to lose by dismantling it and 
cleaning it out. My guess is that it's glopped up from lack of use more than 
anything else. It's been a while since I took an old one apart but I recall 
finding a couple of large flywheel-like discs, one input being driven by the 
cable and one output which in turn drove the cable to the speedometer. Your 
mission would be to clean and de-goop whatever you find, and maybe add some 
light oil wherever it looks appropriate.

One other possibility you might consider, especially if the speedo cable 
always breaks at the transmission end rather than at the transducer end, is 
that the cable core itself is snagging and binding occasionally, or has been 
greased with too heavy a lubricant.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! 
http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:16:33 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds

> What is the easiest way to determine if my 63 Olds super 88 has a Saginaw or
> Thompson  front end?

Something is stamped with an "S" if it's a Saginaw.  Idler arm?  Pitman arm?  The service would tell you.  Or I think Fusick has it in their catalog.  I don't have either in front of me right now.  Naturally, if whatever it is isn't stamped with an "S", it would be a Thompson.  A friend with a '62 Starfire recently went through this and relayed to me that parts for one of these systems are getting hard to come by.  He converted his system over the one that parts are readily available for.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:38:34 -0500
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds

I think if you mic them they can be identified by the diameter, but I am not
100% sure.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:17 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Saginaw or Thompson front end - 63 Olds

> What is the easiest way to determine if my 63 Olds super 88 has a Saginaw
or
> Thompson  front end?

Something is stamped with an "S" if it's a Saginaw.  Idler arm?  Pitman arm?
The service would tell you.  Or I think Fusick has it in their catalog.  I
don't have either in front of me right now.  Naturally, if whatever it is
isn't stamped with an "S", it would be a Thompson.  A friend with a '62
Starfire recently went through this and relayed to me that parts for one of
these systems are getting hard to come by.  He converted his system over the
one that parts are readily available for.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:00:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....

Steve,

Go by the service manual. It will tell you how much trans fluid to put in
for a refill when the pan is pulled and the filter changed. After you have
that amount in, drive the car around the block a few times, and make sure
you do some reverse. That will warm the fluid, get the new fluid everywhere,
and remove trapped air. Then, check the trans fluid level with the engine
running and the car on a flat surface. If you need more fluid, add then.

Remember, trans fluid ***must*** always be checked with the engine running
in park or neutral. The converter ***must*** be spinning to get an accurate
trans fluid level.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
To: "Olds (E-mail)" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:39 AM
Subject: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....


> All,
> I just did tranny service on my daily driver this weekend.  As this is my
first automatic equipped car, can anyone tell me the best way to determine
fluid level on the dipstick?
> When I was filling it, I got to the point where fluid started to touch the
bone dry dipstick.  I added more, but it's so hard to tell where the fluid
level is because there is no dry spot above a certain level, like when you
check the engine oil, and the fluid is so clean and new.
>
> Any tips are appreciated!
>
> Steve Reed
> '96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
> '70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode)
> '68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine)
> Austin, TX
> http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:55:10 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:44:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

At 01:01 PM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, time for me to chime in.
>On my 350's intake, there is a device called a "thermal vacuum switch" 
>which was a device that supplied vacuum to the vacuum advance of the dist. 
>3 nipples: one from carb(ported), one from manifold, one to dist. During 
>normal temperatures the device would supply the ported vacuum from the carb 
>to the dist, but when the engine began to overheat, it would supply full 
>manifold vacuum to the distributor, advancing the timing and therefore 
>COOLING THE ENGINE. Thus, retarded timing causes excess heat.

Yes, that's also true; really-retarded timing will help cause an engine to
overheat.
============
Also, the advanced timing increases idle speed which of course creates more 
airflow thru the radiator.


In the very early '70s, California's emissions a--holes decided
that ALL older cars with vacuum advance had to be retrofitted with what
came to be known as the "Echlin device".
==============
My 1968 442 was cursed with one of those when I bought it in 1984 or so. Pc 
of crap, bad idea thru and thru. Could have ruined the engine, did ruin 
several events for me until I got CSM-wise.

This was a TVS mounted in a brass cylinder that was to be placed in your 
radiator hose. It prevented vacuum advance to the distributor until the 
coolant temp was over 220 degrees.
============
Oooh, mine was not even so clever. My car had a 1967 engine, so there was no 
fitting for a TVS which should have been there. The Echlin box was a black 
box that mtd on the inner fender, and looks to me like it basically just 
disabled dist'r vacuum completely- no thermal sensor at all. Of course, I 
hooked it up only for the occasional smog inspection. Between, dist'r vacuum 
ran right from the carb port. Which, with the crappy fuel available and 
timing retarded to suit, led to severe overheating in cases of prolonged 
idle. Really fun when you get on a coastal drive hiway, with lots of traffic 
not monig hardly at all, and NO ESCAPE because of the cliifs on each side. 
One lane each way. NO WAY OUT. Another fun time was Cruise night in small 
town just N of Davis, very congested, I could not operate idling like that, 
in fact, the heat/ stress blew out the heater core. Had to park and walk it. 
The next year, I had gotten a CSM and learned about the TVS [Man, does it 
work great], but then the town council decided to outlaw the cruise night. 
:-(  When cruising is outlawed, only outlaws will be cruising, right?


Killed both performance and gas mileage. It was universally-abhorred. You
Californians may still find one sitting on an old car's upper radiator hose
in a Yarde  ;o\
=============
I think mine is still in the box o' parts for/ from the convertible in the 
garage.
The car is twice as happy with the TVS in place. 1.2 times as happy to have 
a 425 now instead of the E-400, and 8x as happy to be fed a nice diet of 
Sunoco 94 mixed with a good dose of 110 octane Real Gas.

AFTER I left CA they finally decided to allow really old classic cars to be 
as they were. The Echlin ting is just one of MAY incredibly stupid ways the 
Kalifornia DMV operates. They negected to provide me with a Motorcycle 
operator's license when they took my MI license. That was of course MY 
problem, and I had to not only pay more but take the test again including 
the riding test, which I had to provide the bike for, in order to get their 
CY endorsement. Pinheads.

Also, had the car off the road for a year. Guess what? When I went to 
re-register the car, they charged me for that year AND late fees for "not 
registering" the car- I had failed to fill out a "certificate of 
non-operation" for the year that she was off the road. Nowhere is there a 
clue that such is necessary, of course. Since I left, I have also failed to 
alert them to the car's status as not operating on any hiway in KA, so 
imagine what the fees would be to re-register her there now!

Oh, on the good side of their asinine rules- did I need a smog test since it 
had bee 3 years or so since the last one [required every 2 years]? No, the 
year that it was due was the year that it was off the road... so the NEXT 
year, when I did go to register it... no smog test required. ?!?!?! Just 
give your classic a year off every other year and NEVER SMOG TEST 
AGAIN?!?!?! Brilliant. Them fellers just don't think things thru.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out. 
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:09:16 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

I think my car's transmission (a TH350) is on the way out. :-( It runs OK in
reverse and 1st, but won't shift into 2nd or 3rd.  I checked the fluid level
(the fluid and filter had been changed not long ago).  It was down maybe a
cup.  I topped it off, but I know that's not enough of a drop to cause
shifting trouble.

One thing I noticed when the tranny pan was off three months ago was a fair
amount of gray sludge in the bottom of the pan.  I've had no problems with
the tranny over the past four years, but given the engine oiling problem
that I only discovered after a valve pivot wore out and given that this
transmission was a replacement for the original, I suspect this was another
hidden problem.  

I guess it's better that it happened now than on the way to or from the show
in Phoenix at the end of the month, but I'd still like to take it down
there.  I don't have the facilities to do a tranny swap myself, so it'll be
taken someplace.  Do any of the transmission-replacement chains (Cottman is
one of the ones I've seen around here...don't know if Aamco does business in
Vegas) offer decent parts and service, or would I be better off tracking
down a local shop?

The replacement will be behind a stock '77 smogger 350.  While I might
consider rebuilding the engine whenever I get around to moving someplace
that has a garage, an upgrade to a larger engine is unlikely at this point. 
(Some mild performance improvements might be doable, but it'll remain a
street creature. :-) )  I therefore don't think I'll need anything too out
of the ordinary in a replacement tranny...probably just another rebuilt
TH350.  What kind of money would I likely be looking at (parts and labor) to
have this done?  I've not needed this kind of work done before, so I'm
pretty much flying blind at the moment. :-|

  _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
 / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:49:09 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <oldsmagnet@oldsmagnet.com>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

> I think my car's transmission (a TH350) is on the way out. :-( It runs OK in
> reverse and 1st, but won't shift into 2nd or 3rd.  

Does it ~try~ to shift but just fall into neutral?  Or is it locked in 1st 
gear?  Make sure your vacuum modulator didn't get unhooked, that'll cause 
that very same symptom.  It will eventually shift, but at a much 
higher-than-normal speed.  Not a bad idea to check the kickdown cable 
either, although that's gonna have to be ~way~ out of whack for that 
problem to show up.

A fail-to-shift complaint is most often a valving problem of some form or 
other, be it internal or external.  As long as it's not actually ~slipping~ 
you're in much better shape than you likely are assuming.  Usually. 
However, it's not uncommon to do a trans service that's waaaayyyyy overdue, 
and have the tranny start slipping shortly after that.

It's also not uncommon to find sludge on the bottom of the pan, I wouldn't 
sweat that too much.  It takes some experience to determine if the amount 
in there is excessive or not.

- -- 
=/   http://oldsmagnet.com   \===========/         Oldsmobile        \=
|  mailto:442@oldsmagnet.com  |=========|         1897 -- 2004        |
=\ Charley Buehner Sidney MT /===========\      Shot In The Back     /=

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:12:00 EST
From: Joehume@aol.com
Subject: Re: man seeks OF adapter for 1952 Olds 303 engine? 

Go to www.mnoldsclub.org and click on classifieds.  Look in the parts for 
sale section.  His name is Dave Homstad.  His contact info is listed.
Joe H

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:18:08 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Seeks 1964 Cs pcs

>From: dp51500@hotmail.com
>To: rocketscience442@hotmail.com
>Subject: Question for seller -- Item #2458086699
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:35:32 PST
>
>Hello,do you have any 64 cutlass parts?
>--------------------
No, not really. Some '66 and '67 might be compatible- undercarriage, axles, 
engine pcs, etc.
I do have some 1964 330 engine pieces.

I fwd'd this to the email list too.

Listers, if you can help, please contact him DIRECTLY at

     dp51500@hotmail.com

Thanks!

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


>
>
>Question from:           dp51500
>Title of item:           68 Olds 1968 Cutlass ASHTRAY DOOR F85 H/O 442
>Seller:                  *the*rocketscientist
>Starts:                  Feb-02-04 09:46:22 PST
>Ends:                    Feb-09-04 09:46:22 PST
>Price:                   Starts at $24.42
>To view the item, go to: 
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2458086699
>
>
>
>	Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime 
features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:43:39 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Silly Automatic Transmission Fluid Check Question....

- -------------------------------1075758219
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/2/2004 1:02:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
imp@theriver.com writes:
Remember, trans fluid ***must*** always be checked with the engine running
in park or neutral. The converter ***must*** be spinning to get an accurate
trans fluid level.
On my Cutlass, the Trans fluid dipstick has two settings. The top one says 
"Hot" the bottom says "cold". 

Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92 Eldo

- -------------------------------1075758219
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/2/2004 1:02:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, imp@theri=
ver.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Remember, trans fluid ***must*** always be che=
cked with the engine running<BR>in park or neutral. The converter ***must***=
 be spinning to get an accurate<BR>trans fluid level.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></D=
IV>
<DIV>On my Cutlass, the Trans fluid dipstick has two settings. The top one s=
ays "Hot" the bottom says "cold". </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190=
 SL Conv.<BR>92 Eldo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1075758219--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:03:53 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

> I think my car's transmission (a TH350) is on the way out. :-( It runs OK
in
> reverse and 1st, but won't shift into 2nd or 3rd.

Make sure your downshift cable is not stuck.  If it is, the trans will only
upshift at WOT.


>three months ago was a fair
> amount of gray sludge in the bottom of the pan.

Some gray sludge is normal.  A lot means problems.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:34:22 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Need recommendations with a transmission problem

On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 12:49:09PM -0700, Oldsmagnet wrote:
> >I think my car's transmission (a TH350) is on the way out. :-( It runs OK 
> >in
> >reverse and 1st, but won't shift into 2nd or 3rd.  
> 
> Does it ~try~ to shift but just fall into neutral?  Or is it locked in 1st 
> gear?  Make sure your vacuum modulator didn't get unhooked, that'll cause 
> that very same symptom.  It will eventually shift, but at a much 
> higher-than-normal speed.  Not a bad idea to check the kickdown cable 
> either, although that's gonna have to be ~way~ out of whack for that 
> problem to show up.

I was on a grocery run (maybe 5-6 miles each way).  On the way to the store,
I could get it to upshift by kicking it from D to S and back to D...it'd go
from 1st to 3rd.  On the way back, though, it wouldn't even do that.  From a
stop, it would always go.  Once up to speed (no faster than 25-30 in 1st),
it'd fall out of gear after letting off the gas, but I think that's normal
behavior.  (Letting the speed fall back down enough would allow it to kick
back in.)

I suppose a check of the vacuum hoses could save a trip to the garage.  (At
some point, I really need to just go through and replace all of 'em.)  I'll
need to crack the manual open over the weekend to figure out where to look. 
Is the vacuum modulator something I'll be able to get at if I roll the front
end onto some ramps (or even just by opening the hood), or is it buried
somewhere inside the transmission?

> A fail-to-shift complaint is most often a valving problem of some form or 
> other, be it internal or external.

When my truck was stuck in 2nd & 3rd (wouldn't go into 1st or 4th), that
turned out to be a valve-body problem; the dealer fixed it by R^2'ing the
valve body.  I considered that as a possible source of this problem, but the
sludge in the pan led me to (erroneously?) discount that possibility.

> As long as it's not actually ~slipping~ you're in much better shape than
> you likely are assuming.  Usually.

It doesn't slip when I start from a standstill, so maybe that's the case.

> It's also not uncommon to find sludge on the bottom of the pan, I wouldn't 
> sweat that too much.  It takes some experience to determine if the amount 
> in there is excessive or not.

Experience isn't something of which I have much WRT transmissions.  (I work
on computers for a living, not cars...sometimes I wonder if I know just
enough about cars to be dangerous. :-| )

  _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
 / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4763
*********************************
