
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, December 30 2003     Volume 01 : Number 4725



Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint
re: chrome shop
Front Springs
Re: Michigan cruise (was - FAQ corrections- W31)
Re: chrome shop
Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint
Re: 8.5" rear ID
Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
Re: Delta 88 "Trunk Pop" info
Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
Carbon removal from Rocker Covers
455 teardown
Re: Carbon removal from Rocker Covers
Anyone seen an "H" tri carb intake? 
Obtained rare bare '990-4A 403 block as well... 
Re: W-31 motor rebuild progress
Re: Michigan cruise (was - FAQ corrections- W31)
re: W-31 motor rebuild progress II
Re: Delta 88 "Trunk Pop" info
Re: Front Springs
cam motion
Re: 455 teardown
Re: W-31 motor rebuild progress
W31 engine build - I was confused - NEVER MIND!
Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )
re: W-31 motor rebuild progress II
Re: W31 engine build - I was confused - NEVER MIND!
Re: cam motion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:35:17 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint

Chris,
I used a Duplicolor (I believe it was a Dodge color).  I don't know how 
correct they are, but I'll look for a paint number when we put away the 
tree tomorrow.

M


At 12:55 PM 12/29/2003 -0800, Chris Smetana wrote:
>I know this made it to the list before, but I find it very hard to believe 
>only 1 person has restored 68-70 SSII wheels before.
>Who has experience with the paint from Supercars, Fusicks or the Dupli 
>Color brand Dan mentioned or something else?  I'm looking for THE correct 
>SSII paint as I will be getting my SSII redone next month and obviously I 
>will need to paint them.  Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:04:58 -0500
From: Timothy O'Guin <leix26@comcast.net>
Subject: re: chrome shop

Chris,
A guy from work has a 1940 Ford and had bumpers and other
items chromed at a place in Paw Paw, Michigan. He is very
happy with the results. I have not seen them so I can not
comment. Paw Paw is in the SW portion of Mich. and map quest
lists it being 126 miles from Chicago. It may be worth a call.
Paw Paw Plating
(269) 657-5555
Ask for Jeff Burza

Hope this helps,
Tim O'Guin


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:37:04 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: chrome shop


Greetings all,
I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a chrome shop.  I know there is Tri-city plating down in TN, but do they chrome things that aren't bumpers?  I have the OAI lid for my 69 W-31 air cleaner that I need to get rechromed and I'm looking for a shop that does excellent or better work.  And if anyone has a recommendation for a place in the Chicago area so much the better as I can drive there.  Thanks in advance.
 

- - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:14:46 -0500
From: "Marty McLeod" <marty.regena@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Front Springs

Hi all.  I put the 455 in my 69 cutlass convertible last winter and drove it
all summer without changing the front springs that were in it with the 350.
Near the end of the summer they were starting to sag and the car really
bounced badly over dips in the road.   There is no part number for a 69 with
a 455 so I went to a 70 with a 455.  The part numbers are different for a
442 with a 455 than the part number for a cutlass supreme with a 455.  What
do you guys recommend for a spring in the front?  I don't want the front to
be a way up in the air either.  What year or application should I use.
Thanks for the help.

Marty McLeod
69 Cutlass S Convertible 455

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:12:32 -0500
From: "ftfunnyfarm" <ftfunnyfarm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Michigan cruise (was - FAQ corrections- W31)

Well Dan depending on when you are planning this cruz but you can count me,
my hubby and my Cutty in your cruz!! We are near Dalton sorta...lol...we are
east of Hastings about 20 minutes or so!!

Tami

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:25:35 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: chrome shop

  the one thing i found out the hard way is you get what you pay for
  look at there proccess and warrenty
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Timothy O'Guin" <leix26@comcast.net>
  To: "Olds digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:04 PM
  Subject: re: chrome shop


  > Chris,
  > A guy from work has a 1940 Ford and had bumpers and other
  > items chromed at a place in Paw Paw, Michigan. He is very
  > happy with the results. I have not seen them so I can not
  > comment. Paw Paw is in the SW portion of Mich. and map quest
  > lists it being 126 miles from Chicago. It may be worth a call.
  > Paw Paw Plating
  > (269) 657-5555
  > Ask for Jeff Burza
  >
  > Hope this helps,
  > Tim O'Guin
  >
  >
  > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:37:04 -0800 (PST)
  > From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
  > Subject: chrome shop
  >
  >
  > Greetings all,
  > I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a chrome shop.  I know there is Tri-city
plating down in TN, but do they chrome things that aren't bumpers?  I have the OAI lid for my 69
W-31 air cleaner that I need to get rechromed and I'm looking for a shop that does excellent or
better work.  And if anyone has a recommendation for a place in the Chicago area so much the better
as I can drive there.  Thanks in advance.
  >
  >
  > - -
  >
  >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:34:33 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 2nd try for SSII wheel paint

The problem was that the orginal poster did NOT want a close alternative,
but the real thing when it came to paint. I doubt any of us has access to
the codes and formulas GM used. So we necessarily use a close alternative. 
I used a GM truck body paint in a metallic gray that was recommended as
a close match, and it looks great to my eyes. But that wasn't what was
asked for.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:45:25 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 8.5" rear ID

At 06:10 PM 12/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>A junkyard nearby has what he claims to be an 8.5" posi rear out of an 85
>442. Trouble is, it's off the car already and I have no way to tell that
>it's a G-body rear (as opposed to A- or B-body) other than his word. Can
>someone provide me with some measurements or ID numbers or something that
>would be a dead giveaway to a G-body rear? I plan on going tomorrow morning
>(as this is a KILLER deal if it is what he says it is).

Go here and print out the ID (first) page; should have 8TF or 9TF if an
'85. But look at the other years, too, as some folks don't get the year right.
http://tech.oldsgmail.com/axle_useage.html

B-body would have a different code. The tag could be missing, they
sometimes are. If so, I would try to open it and check it out, make sure
it's a posi. You can't really be sure by rotating the axles unless you can
hold one completely still, whereupon you shouldn't be able to rotate the
other one unless it's completely worn out. If it is, then forget it because
the Auburn units (which this would be) are tough to get rebuilt (there's a
guy who rebuilds Auburn but parts aren't available; he makes his own).

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:58:25 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)

On Dec 29, 2003, at 6:17 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:03:00 +0000
> From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
>
> At 08:21 PM 12/28/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>> The tops of the injectors have to be parallel or you'll need
>>> funky fuel rails.
>>
>> Still not seeing the problem. Why would they be non-parallel? The
>> injectors go close to the head where the runners are all at the same
>> level.
>
> Here, look at the angle of the roof at the end of the runners of any of
> these intakes:
> http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/OldsSBIntMani.htm
>
> The injectors in each runner's roof must be at the same level and the 
> same
> angle, so the fuel rails can be screwed to each injector. You *might* 
> be
> able to accomplish this by milling the area where the injectors will 
> mount.
> There will probably also be different amounts of turbulence due to some
> runners dropping down then coming up (cylinders 2, 8, 5 and 7) while 
> others
> run almost straight in to the head ports. It'll probly work, and maybe 
> work
> pretty well for a low-rpm street engine, but probly won't provide very 
> even
> air control to the two sets of four cylinders at high rpm. A 
> single-plane
> at least doesn't have that dip in half of the runners, which tends to
> lengthen those four runners, causing a delay in air control by the 
> throttle
> body compared to the shorter runners.

Not going to make enough difference to notice. Realize that the 
injector bungs are going to go about where the cylinder numbers are on 
the A4 manifold, where they're flat and at the same level, angled 
toward the port in the head. For one thing, since I'll be using bungs, 
there is some fudging room.
The dual plane will do some slightly weird things to the airflow, but 
with the port injectors, fuel distribution will be fine. Single plane 
would be better, but dual plane'll do in a pinch. Cheap enough to try 
anyway.
The Caddy manifold also angles the injectors to the side, which makes 
for a very interesting fuel rail.

On a different tack, the dual plane would be just about right for using 
with Throttle-body Injection, since fuel distribution is from the same 
point as a carb.

>
> SteveH
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Euless, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:03:54 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 "Trunk Pop" info

On Dec 29, 2003, at 6:17 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:37:44 +0000
> From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: Delta 88 "Trunk Pop" info
>
> At 09:17 PM 12/28/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>>> Theft.  You have to have the keys to get in the trunk.
>>
>> Er, that would be why the trunk button is in the glove box. Lock the
>> glove box.
>
> Heh... entirely true. But when's the last time any of us ever thought 
> to
> lock our glove box, except in a misguided attempt to hide our wallet in
> there while out at the beach  ;o\
>
> And besides, most glove boxes can be ripped down and out...

Yup, and the ignition can be popped, hotwired, etc. The best you can do 
is make it easier for the thief to hit someone else's car.
>
> SteveH
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Euless, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:05:06 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)

At 03:03 AM 12/29/2003 +0000, SteveH wrote:
>At 08:21 PM 12/28/2003 -0600, Kevin wrote:
>>>The tops of the injectors have to be parallel or you'll need 
>>>funky fuel rails.
>>
>>Still not seeing the problem. Why would they be non-parallel? The 
>>injectors go close to the head where the runners are all at the same 
>>level.
>
>Here, look at the angle of the roof at the end of the runners of any of
>these intakes:
>http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/OldsSBIntMani.htm
>
>The injectors in each runner's roof must be at the same level and the same
>angle, so the fuel rails can be screwed to each injector. You *might* be


I was under the impression that they'd be "press-in" (is that the right
term), rather than screw-in, thus using o-rings on each end of the injector.

Using the 3800V6 as a basis, I noted that there's a reasonable amount of
extra room in the tubes that come off the rail (what are those called?) to
feed each injector, as well as in the holes in the intake manifold, to
accomodate varying length injectors, for whatever reason.

In any case, that was helpful because my 1986 3.8L injector was a bit
different lengthwise, both top and bottom, than the rest on my 1989 3800.
But because of the extra room given, I was able to easily use the earlier
injector on the later engine.  (side note: auto-parts store lists the same
injector for both engines).

So I guess there'd be a bit of room to work with, especially if there's
enough extra length given for the tubes coming off the main fuel rail.


	- Joe "This is, of course, theoretical" Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:09:12 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)

  the olds 5.7 used in caddy is slightly different it uses the intake mounting bolts to secure
injectors to manifold
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:05 PM
  Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)


  > At 03:03 AM 12/29/2003 +0000, SteveH wrote:
  > >At 08:21 PM 12/28/2003 -0600, Kevin wrote:
  > >>>The tops of the injectors have to be parallel or you'll need
  > >>>funky fuel rails.
  > >>
  > >>Still not seeing the problem. Why would they be non-parallel? The
  > >>injectors go close to the head where the runners are all at the same
  > >>level.
  > >
  > >Here, look at the angle of the roof at the end of the runners of any of
  > >these intakes:
  > >http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/OldsSBIntMani.htm
  > >
  > >The injectors in each runner's roof must be at the same level and the same
  > >angle, so the fuel rails can be screwed to each injector. You *might* be
  >
  >
  > I was under the impression that they'd be "press-in" (is that the right
  > term), rather than screw-in, thus using o-rings on each end of the injector.
  >
  > Using the 3800V6 as a basis, I noted that there's a reasonable amount of
  > extra room in the tubes that come off the rail (what are those called?) to
  > feed each injector, as well as in the holes in the intake manifold, to
  > accomodate varying length injectors, for whatever reason.
  >
  > In any case, that was helpful because my 1986 3.8L injector was a bit
  > different lengthwise, both top and bottom, than the rest on my 1989 3800.
  > But because of the extra room given, I was able to easily use the earlier
  > injector on the later engine.  (side note: auto-parts store lists the same
  > injector for both engines).
  >
  > So I guess there'd be a bit of room to work with, especially if there's
  > enough extra length given for the tubes coming off the main fuel rail.
  >
  >
  > - Joe "This is, of course, theoretical" Vahabzadeh
  >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:18:44 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Carbon removal from Rocker Covers

Whee!
have photos if anyone would like [I need a web page]

Too much sludge in the rocker covers of the 350 under build, you can feel 
there's like 2-3 extra lbs of stuff in there. "Cleaning" at machine shop 
leaves much to be desired. Even on the exposed surfaces.

Hmmmmm... worked on the Suzuki exhaust....
Placed RACover on heater [propane fired], wait, not hot enough
Remove lid so that fire hits RACover directly, wait, yep, 10 min or so, 
smoke comes out
heat more on top side with small torch, exiting fumes catch fire, there we 
go.
Nice Flaming Rocker Cover picture.

Now.... add oxygen, nope, no torch
OK, add air from the air hose with long nozzle.
Ayep. Sludge burns, you can see the areas get red hot as fire progresses
Within a few minutes, all the stuff is burned/ blown out, and the blockage 
GONE.

Quick trip thru the solvent tank, then polish the outside with scruffy pad 
on angle die grinder, and apply prmer to ward off rust.

Not only was it effective, it was FUN. Flames and all that.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.  
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:36:02 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 455 teardown

Dismantled the latest 455 yesterday, named 3357.
what a joy
roller timing set, must be a hot rod, eh?
came to me bare short block, no heads, no oil pan.
Bores looked OK if lightly rusted.
Whatta we got here?

Remove timing cover to find that... the cam bolt got lost? So the Clever 
Mechanic used whatever 7/16" bolt was handy in the Box O Bolts. Never mind 
that extra long head which is supposed to prevent cam forward motion by 
nearly touching the timing cover. Oh, no need to search for FINE thread 
either. ;-)
... The cam is replacement, stock it appears, lift of 0.298" or just under 
.480 at the valve. No special marks or stamps on it for clues, no factory 
chamfers on the front.

Lots of splotches of white on a couple cam lobes... Ate a bearing or 2.
Boy, did it eat a bearing or 2.
#6 rod journal pounded 30 thou undersize, all on 1 side too. So bad the 
piston came down far enough to hit the crank. There was only one half 
bearing shell left there, and that was tapered to zero at the ends. [Don't 
stop driving it just because it bangs!]

#3 main journal worn TEN THOU UNDERSIZE, and yes I mean scored and WORN, not 
ground, other mains were all nice and std sized. Another Nodular crank for 
the scrap man.

Rods [except #6] serviceable, block OK. Harmonic Balancer still good.

Between the Clever Mechanic and the Clever Driver, this thing did not stand 
a chance.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work —  and 
yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:42:00 -0500
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Carbon removal from Rocker Covers

> Whee!
> have photos if anyone would like [I need a web page]

Send me the photos, I like to see people having fun with fire!

droethel@rogers.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:50:20 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Anyone seen an "H" tri carb intake? 

So... ok,It's raining, at least not snowing I guess, but it's a real mudfest 
here in MI this December. Go over to The Man's house to get a 403 engine 
last nite. On the way to the farm with latest 455 pieces and its scrap metal 
anyhow, might as well get that out there.

The Man has many interesting things
1964 Cutlass-ElCamino with wild flamed paint job [remember that from eBay 
recently?]
1968 station wagon getting not 1 but two Toro drivetrains. And a lot more 
exotic than that too.

On the floor is a tri-carb intake. Yawn, seen them before, got 1 or 2 of 
them. He says, yeah, ck that casting number.

Huh? My interest piques. I do not have the casting NUMBER memorized, but I 
know they are supposed to be "F" castings. This one's an "H". WTH? Get the 
camera...

Turns out to be unseen before.
Strange rounded crossover blockoff ports' covers.
Runner ID numbers are like on raised pads, like an afterthought.

Carb numbers [yes, has tags] and the LH opening delay linkage look exactly 
like L-69 regular pieces. Air cleaners the familiar 3 individuals. Carbs 
have the usual GM 2-bbl "incorrect" base gaskets which allow UNFILTERED AIR 
right on into the engine. [I even have an NOS carb which exhibits this 
condition- used to think it was Clever Mechanics at work]

Casting asserts that it is #395479 CHG-A [water crossover], amd "H" [#2 
runner]
The usual casting is "F" and the 6-digit ends in "390" I think...

Anyone else ever seen one of these oddball L-69 intake manifolds?
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!  
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:09:00 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Obtained rare bare '990-4A 403 block as well... 

So, ok, the exotic heretofore unseen Tri-carb intake is pretty exciting 
stuff, for me anyhow, I get off on the unusual. Thus the 442 and not a Chevy 
I guess.

We go back into the back to get the dismantled project 403 out, it's all 
tore down. The block is covered, more or less, with a black plastic bag. 
Hustle it onto the hand truck. I take a quick gander at the casting ID, see 
a "4A", and jokingly announce "hey, the SOLID MAIN WEB 403, cool!"

After a minute, The Man says, hey, wait a minute, lemme look at that... 
Well, jeez, I replies, not only are they "Mythical," but this one is the 
usual "not even possibly...." er ah, wait a minute, HEY, this IS the fabled 
"4A" 554990 block of LORE!!!! The only other one I have ever had is still in 
the 1975 Cutlass over at Mom's.

So, now I have in my possession, the long sought 554990-4A [not '265-4B] 
block!
I found:
VIN stamp 37M?????? or 37X??????- too rusty to tell except the "1977 Olds" 
part.
EUN 7276007 on OFTube confirms 1977 issue.
HEI numbered 1103457-4A??
Rear face of block in the Usual F-Place: "F 2" with "714" under that. [F 2 
??? go figure]

Also have [for sale now]:
Redone 4A heads, good for regular 403's I guess.
Nice fresh .010/.010 403 crank
Rods with stock pistons
Oil pan
All the other usual parts. #16 intake, etc.
Ah, specimen "3362" was very interesting indeed.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work —  and 
yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:24:48 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: W-31 motor rebuild progress

From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: W-31 motor rebuild progress

Good Evening all,
Well, I checked my email this evening and I got a post xmas present from Jim 
at
J&S.  Here is the link  :-)))))

http://community.webshots.com/photo/104091643/106984540TvDlGC

Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
==========================
How nice!
I must say that is the first set of #5 era heads I have ever seen that has 
not a wide solid flat area where the rocker pedestals mount, but more like 
the smog era "just enough to mount the pedestal" riser... did you have that 
done, or they came that way?
- -------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed 
providers now.  https://broadband.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:26:48 -0500
From: Michael McDonald <McDonald_M@72ho.com>
Subject: Re: Michigan cruise (was - FAQ corrections- W31)

>On 12/28/03 4:11 PM, "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net> wrote
> 
>> I'm thinking of organizing a Olds cruise and visit to the Gilmore/Kellogg
>> Foundation Auto museum near Delton Michigan sometime in 2004.... Should be 
>> able to get some Illinois and Indiana list members to meet the Michigan  
>>   folks...
>> If this idea has any merit with he Michigan guys, please let me
>> know.  Thanks,
>> 
>> Dan
>> 70 W31 4-speed
>> 71 442

Dan,

Count me in, I live just a little north of Delton in Grand Rapids, MI.  Would 
be willing to help out.  Just let me know.

Best wishes,
 
Mike McDonald
McDonald_M@72ho.com

1972 Hurst/Olds sunroof coupe
    "as seen on Speed TV"
   The American Musclecar    
            or
        www.72ho.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:34:14 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: W-31 motor rebuild progress II

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:29:01 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: W-31 motor rebuild progress

- - --0-643442131-1072578541=:76781
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Good Evening all,
Well, I checked my email this evening and I got a post xmas present from Jim 
at
J&S.  Here is the link  :-)))))
=============
Chris
Whattya trying to pull here?
Besides the weird pedestals' mount areas....
one pic clearly shows underside casting "last 3" as "147"
Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but the #5 heads are 397742 castings, 
right?
So, either you have some weird WEIRD WeIrD castings there
or you have doctored them to say what you want where you want....

Which is it?
You KNOW I love the exotic/ strange/ "incorrect" castings!
Inquiring Mind is driving me nuts! Are they stock #5's with xxx147 casting 
number???

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access — limited 
time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:44:08 -0500
From: "Mike Stilwell" <Fleetsuper@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 "Trunk Pop" info

> Steve Harrison wrote:
>
> Olds wires the trunk release button so the
> ignition must be on, whereas Ch*bby wires it
> to constant battery power (through a fuse,
> of course). I've no clear, coherent idea why
> they'd do this.
- ----------------------------------------------
Fed Nissen wrote in response to Steve:
>
> Theft.  You have to have the keys to get in
> the trunk.
- -----------------------------------------------
Kevin Wright wrote in response to both:
>
> Er, that would be why the trunk button is in
> the glove box. Lock the glove box.

I'm on digest mode also, I also meant to post on this before.

Most likely reason is that Chevy's are more widely used as police cars.
Especially during the 80's which is the time frame when the car that started
this thread was made.  Cops don't like to wait around and have to turn on a
key to open something, even though they are always running anyway.  On the
off chance that the car is off they would still want to get in the trunk.
If the cars came with the trunk wired to the ignition, they would have the
shop change that right away.

Mike Stilwell  OCA #13273
President - Capitol City Rockets
http://www.bigmikes442.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:48:33 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Front Springs

Marty,

> There is no part number for a 69 with
> a 455 so I went to a 70 with a 455.


Except that a '69 A-body with a 400 would work fine. The MOOG catalog shows
spring #5450 for the front of a '69 442. It's the same for a '68. I'd use
the 5450.

Do you have AC???

Moog #5450
load height = 12.0"
load = 1642 pounds
load rate = 454 pounds per inch
free height = 15.616"


> The part numbers are different for a
> 442 with a 455 than the part number for a cutlass supreme with a 455.


That's right. A 442 uses a higher load rate with a shorter free length for
cornering. The 3 other heavy duty service front springs that are available
from '68 to '70 have 2" more in free length with about 100 less pounds of
load rate. That gives the regular A-bodies a little softer ride than a 442,
but the 442 is better in the corners. It's all in what you want.

Also, don't forget that a big block is only about 60 pounds heavier than a
small block. That's not enough to make any difference. What you really want
to look for is a heavy duty service spring for AC. That's where you will see
some very impressive Godzilla springs, with total load ratings up to 2100
pounds per spring.

Your existing springs were old when you swaped the engines. It's just old
age.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:51:56 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: cam motion

Actually, to be more speciffic, in a Chevy, isn't it the opposite rotation
of the distributor gear that is supposed to pull the cam back and prevent
forward cam motion? I believe it is. That's one reason high performance 
Chevys can eat their distributor gear. There's too much backward motion 
directly into the distributor gear.
============
VERY hard to believe they are that clever. I admit to being Chevy-ignorant 
here.


Olds opted for a different rotation to purposely cause forward cam motion, 
and then used a cam button device to cancel out that forward motion, 
effectively creating a neutral positioning
of the cam in the block so there would be no apparent stress on the 
lifter/cam lobe interface or on the cam gear/distributor gear interface.
============
Disagree.
Olds- Dist on LH side of cam
cam spins dist/ oil pump CCW, therefore pushing fwd on the RH side of the 
dist gear where they meet
Therefore, that dist gear pushes rearward on the cam's gear, Newton's Law.
Rearward motion limited by the OD on cam front against block.
Fwd motion, should it attempt to occur, limited by cam bolt to timing cover 
contact.

When was the last time anyone has ever seen an eaten Olds distributor gear?
I'll bet you haven't. Compare *that* to a Chevy. Another inherent advantage
to Olds.
===========
Hmmmmm..... don't think I have ever seen an eaten Olds cam/ dist gear. Nope, 
wait, I do have ONE in the collection. Ah, yes, that engine was one of 
SEVERAL I have autopsied which the Clever Mechanic put the non-holey type 
gallery plug in at rebuild. No oil on dist gear = short life.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed 
providers now.  https://broadband.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:19:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 455 teardown

> #3 main journal worn TEN THOU UNDERSIZE, and yes I mean scored and WORN,
not
> ground, other mains were all nice and std sized. Another Nodular crank for
> the scrap man.


The thrust main bearing. The other main bearings okay. The only way that
happens is the driver took the engine well past 7000 way too many times and
flexed the crank in the center. I know. I've done it.

I would guess some bearing material from #3 main got into the oil supply
passage to #6 rod, plugging it, and stopped all oil flow.

The distributor gear may not have disengaged from a forward moving cam, like
I surmised before. Actually, the lifters may not allow the cam to move that
far forward. It would be interesting to see if there's any bright shiny wear
on the front sides of cam lobes or on the sides of the lifters, indicating
forward movement of the cam. Also, the double roller timing chain may be
rigid enough to stop forward cam movement. There may be an interesting wear
pattern on the distributor gear and the rear cam gear.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:00:29 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: W-31 motor rebuild progress

At 11:24 PM 12/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
>Subject: W-31 motor rebuild progress
>
>Good Evening all,
>Well, I checked my email this evening and I got a post xmas present from Jim 
>at
>J&S.  Here is the link  :-)))))
>
>http://community.webshots.com/photo/104091643/106984540TvDlGC

Don't forget to remind him there's still a broken bolt in the center
exhaust port  ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:06:25 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: W31 engine build - I was confused - NEVER MIND!

Ah, now I see
That web page has Jim's 7's and Eric's 7's and Chris's 5's

Not just Chris' 5's
Sorry for the confusion

It's late and I been a-drinkin agin.
L8R, G8R
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work —  and 
yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:07:50 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: B-body spindle UCAs (was Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes )

Listmembers,

I won't knock UB Machine (have met one of the Urbine brothers before at a 
racer's auction, and have some of their parts for eventual installation on 
Grace), but there is a place that builds a really slick upper control arm that's 
adjustable in it's length and for camber without changing the usual shims like 
the stock arms do.  Look up Pole Position Race Products 
(www.polepositionrp.com), they have a really slick upper control arm design.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:05:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: re: W-31 motor rebuild progress II

At 11:34 PM 12/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Chris
>Whattya trying to pull here?
>Besides the weird pedestals' mount areas....
>one pic clearly shows underside casting "last 3" as "147"
>Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but the #5 heads are 397742 castings, 
>right?
>So, either you have some weird WEIRD WeIrD castings there
>or you have doctored them to say what you want where you want....
>
>Which is it?
>You KNOW I love the exotic/ strange/ "incorrect" castings!
>Inquiring Mind is driving me nuts! Are they stock #5's with xxx147 casting 
>number???

Not the same head: those are 409147 #7s, as seen in the pic immediately prior.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:21:45 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: W31 engine build - I was confused - NEVER MIND!

At 12:06 AM 12/30/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Ah, now I see
>That web page has Jim's 7's and Eric's 7's and Chris's 5's
>
>Not just Chris' 5's
>Sorry for the confusion
>
>It's late and I been a-drinkin agin.

Bad fer the eyeballses, this close to midnite  ;o)))))))))

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:15:25 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: cam motion

> Disagree.
> Olds- Dist on LH side of cam
> cam spins dist/ oil pump CCW, therefore pushing fwd on the RH side of the
> dist gear where they meet
> Therefore, that dist gear pushes rearward on the cam's gear, Newton's Law.
> Rearward motion limited by the OD on cam front against block.
> Fwd motion, should it attempt to occur, limited by cam bolt to timing
cover
> contact.

Disagree - again.

You're forgetting the resistance of the oil the oil pump has to move.

Go get an old cam and a distributor and look at them in your hands. Notice
the direction the gears are cut. The cam gear rotates to the right of the
engine, spinning the distributor gear counter-clockwise, which means toward
the right of the engine. The distributor sits to the left of the cam. That
motion has a tendency to push the cam away from the distributor gear, since
the distributor isn't moving, except upward, if it had the chance. Also, the
torque required to move the oil has an opposite reaction against the cam
gear, further trying to drive the cam forward. That's why the cam bumper
button is there. Otherwise, it wouldn't be needed. The flange on the cam
front limits how far back the cam can go. Handy for engine assembly, but
mostly, it's along for the ride and prevents the cam timing gear and timing
chain from getting into any mischief.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4725
*********************************
