
oldsmobile-digest      Friday, February 13 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4775



Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Oldsmohut
Nice Olds/442 License Plate Frame?
Re: Front end component colors
wiper switch needed
Re: wiper switch needed
Re: Power Window Wiring Diagrams
Re: wiper switch needed
RE: Need digest #4772
RE: Nice Olds/442 License Plate Frame?
Re: Power Window Wiring Diagrams
330 problems
Re: 330 problems
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: Sales literature, was: wiper switch needed
Re: wiper switch needed
Re: 330 problems
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Oldsmohut redux
Re: Update for stuck 455 valve
Re: 330 problems
Seat Cover Quality
RE: Oldsmohut redux
The Great Firewall Drill
Re: The Great Firewall Drill
early FI, Olds and Caddy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:49:21 -0600
From: "Tom Jones" <tom.bearsfan@verizon.net>
Subject: Update for stuck 455 valve

Ok here's the Update on my previous posts.  I was directed by the mechanic
to pull the head (he is out of town) which I did and discovered the piston
has hit the valve and bent it.  There is a small ding in the piston and a
slight discolored spot on the valve which matches the shape of the ding in
the piston.  The valve is open about 0.2  inches on one side and closed on
the other.   The cylinder is very clean looking.  This motor was supposedly
dyno'd and comp. tested.  I have also noticed some slight speckling on the
piston which looks like engine paint overspray.  I am currently discussing
this with the mechanic and will probably have to pull the motor and send it
back to them for a re-build.  My question is if this motor was tested as
paid for why would the cylinder be so clean (looks fresh out of the box) and
why would it still have slight oversparay on it if that's what that is?  I
have run the motor for about 2hrs total and he claims to have dyno'd
it....although I have not recieved the dyno sheets yet.  He saya the piston
is probably so clean because it has had raw  gasoline running through that
cylinder and it probably washed it.  Also how much valve clearance is there
for a 455 with C heads?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:15:20 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

Tom,

> The cylinder is very clean looking.  This motor was supposedly
> dyno'd and comp. tested.  I have also noticed some slight speckling on the
> piston which looks like engine paint overspray.


Paint overspray on a piston top should last about 10 seconds of engine run
time.


> My question is if this motor was tested as
> paid for why would the cylinder be so clean (looks fresh out of the box)
and
> why would it still have slight oversparay on it if that's what that is?


Okay, what do the other 3 pistons look like on that side? There should be
some carbon burn marks on the piston top. Not much, but some.


> I
> have run the motor for about 2hrs total and he claims to have dyno'd
> it....although I have not recieved the dyno sheets yet.  He saya the
piston
> is probably so clean because it has had raw  gasoline running through that
> cylinder and it probably washed it.


That could be possible, but I don't understand why the paint isn't gone by
now. Again, what do the other 3 pistons look like?


> Also how much valve clearance is there
> for a 455 with C heads?


The heads don't make the difference. It's all in the cam specs for duration,
overlap, and valve lift. Generally speaking, there should be 0.060"
clearance between the valve and the piston top. 0.040" is okay but tight,
especially with carbon buildup.

Are your pistons dead flat tops, flat tops with valve reliefs, or dished?

I sure would like to know why the valve kissed the piston top. Did any other
valves hit pistons on the other 3 cylinders on that side? You really need to
find out what caused it. I wish I lived close to you.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:39:31 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

Milton:

I knew this thread was right up your alley. ;)

>Paint overspray on a piston top should last about 10 seconds of engine run
>time.

Unless the valve was bent from the get go during assembly and the cylinder 
never fired!

>Okay, what do the other 3 pistons look like on that side? There should be
>some carbon burn marks on the piston top. Not much, but some.

He ran it for 2 hours, so there should be SOME sign on the pistons, eh?

I sure would like to know why the valve kissed the piston top. Did any other
>valves hit pistons on the other 3 cylinders on that side? You really need to
>find out what caused it. I wish I lived close to you.

My vote goes to an idiot fubar the cam timing and then turning the engine 
over full force with a breaker bar. Then he realized that it won't budge, 
found the mistake and correcting the timing. Then run the engine or just 
sell it without the dyno session. ?

If the engine had done it running or starting up, other valves would have 
to be affected. Those valves aren't at much of an angle towards the piston. 
Wonder how much force it takes to bend it out of shape that much. Is it 
possible that they tried to start it with fubar timing and it seized on 
that one valve. Then they corrected it and just ran it?

George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:53:35 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

George & Tom,

> Unless the valve was bent from the get go during assembly and the cylinder
> never fired!


That's possible.


> He ran it for 2 hours, so there should be SOME sign on the pistons, eh?


Yep.


> My vote goes to an idiot fubar the cam timing and then turning the engine
> over full force with a breaker bar. Then he realized that it won't budge,
> found the mistake and correcting the timing. Then run the engine or just
> sell it without the dyno session. ?
>
> If the engine had done it running or starting up, other valves would have
> to be affected. Those valves aren't at much of an angle towards the
piston.
> Wonder how much force it takes to bend it out of shape that much. Is it
> possible that they tried to start it with fubar timing and it seized on
> that one valve. Then they corrected it and just ran it?


Right now, that's as good an explanation as any, and it even seems to fit
the observed results. If true, it doesn't say much for the engine shop, or
it says way too much.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:05:58 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

>Right now, that's as good an explanation as any, and it even seems to fit
>the observed results. If true, it doesn't say much for the engine shop, or
>it says way too much.

I almost had beer coming through my nose reading that last half sentence. 
It actually isn't funny at all. More tragic than comedy. There is nothing 
worse than building a new engine and not getting rewarded  with a fresh and 
peppy new mill after half a day of breaking it in and tuning it.

With those symptoms, I really can't think of any scenario that does not 
involve the builder being grossly negligent. I am sure interested to hear 
from Tom how the other cylinders looked like. Can you post pics and send 
the link, Tom?

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:08:13 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

One more thing. I sure would want a new cam and new valvetrain. At least 
the affected valve / cylinder!

George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:07:37 -0500
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: Oldsmohut

Anybody know who is selling the Oldsmohut these days? I bought my last one
from Costco, but they don't seem to carry them any more.

I'm thinking about buying the thing just for the frame, and attaching T-111
to it with U-bolts so it's not so crappy looking and can have a door that
can be locked. Methinks I need to put up a storage building fast.

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:48:34 -0800
From: "Albert Penello" <albert@albertpenello.com>
Subject: Nice Olds/442 License Plate Frame?

Anyone know where I can get a nice Oldsmobile/442 license plate frame? I'd
like to get something with the correct vintage Olds script or 442 lettering
from my year (1965)

Haven't seen any in the catalogs or on e-bay.

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:12:48 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Front end component colors

while youre tearing it down could you take pics  and e mail them to me i have a 72 convertable  and it adds a new meaning to fixer upper.
also any tips on removeing the body off frame since this is my first convertable project.
also a list of suppliers you used and if you you would use them again or not
thanks 
ron
  
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I decided that my life is not frustrating enough, so I have begun the
> teardown of my 72 Cutlass Supreme convertible in preparation to paint it.  I
> will do all of the work myself.  If somebody had created a document outlining
> the various colors as was suggested, I would be all set.  
> 
> The areas that I am interested in is all the generally black body parts behind
> the grill and bumper.  I cannot tell the specific finish on some (semigloss,
> flat, etc), and other parts are either black or body color.  Specifically of
> interest are the assemblies that consist of a bracket with the headlight
> buckets attached.  I know the grills are silver, and the stone shield and
> headlight housings are body color. 
> 
> Also, I recall seeing the suggestion of a spray paint source for the black as
> well as the silver (argent?) color of the grills.  Was it Krylon?  Also, what
> colors and finishes?
> 
> I am not pulling the engine, so the deepest I will probably get into the engine
> compartment will be the plate above the radiator.
> 
> I also need a couple of the fine pitched screws that hold the headlight
> retaining rings in place.  Not the adjuster screws.  Any suggested source for
> them?
> 
> If anybody is curious, I plan to use urethane base coat/clear coat.  By the
> way, I can't help but think about how good the condition of these parts are as
> I remove them.  I keep thinking how much I could probably get for them on that
> notorious online auction house.  
> 
> Must control myself...
> 
> car will be worth lots after painting...
> 
> don't part it out...
> 
> that's ok, the feeling will pass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brett Chaveriat
> 
> estiaat@yahoo.com
> 1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - Radiant Green (about to turn grey for a
> while)
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Brett Chaveriat
> 
> estiaat@yahoo.com
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:48:22 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: wiper switch needed

Hi All
    No luck with this on the toro list. Thought I'd give you guys a try. 
I have an 80 toro which needs a wiper switch 2 speed no pulse. Any one 
got a gen 3 parts car? Any other suggestion welcome
Thanks
Think Spring
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:12:35 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: wiper switch needed

>     No luck with this on the toro list. Thought I'd give you guys a try.

I saw your post on the Toro list.  I don't have a switch at the moment.  If
you had hit me two years ago....


> I have an 80 toro which needs a wiper switch 2 speed no pulse. Any one
> got a gen 3 parts car?

The switch you need was only used '79-'81.  By '82 the multi function stalk
controlled the wipers on the Toro.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:20:31 EST
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Power Window Wiring Diagrams

- --part1_10c.2f6bcd69.2d5e372f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/12/04 9:44:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
62oldsfan@comcast.net
writes:

> Power window wiring diagrams are not found in the CSM, but should be found 
> in the Fisher Body service manual.

Paul,
      I have several Fisher Body Manuals, as well as factory service manuals, 
factory assembly manuals, Parts Catalogs, Mitchell estimate pages, plus other 
various Oldsmobile books, pamphlets, etc.  Nowhere in any of the above am I 
able to find pictures or specific references to where the wiring goes for a 
power window setup for a 70-72 Cutlass application.  Am I missing them somewhere? 
 Can you give me page numbers and the exact location that you have this.  I 
would be eternally grateful for it.
Thanks,
Steve D

- --part1_10c.2f6bcd69.2d5e372f_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/12/04 9:44:59=20=
PM Pacific Standard Time,</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#3d0000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" st=
yle=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"=20=
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">62oldsfan@comcast.net<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#3d0000"=
 BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 F=
AMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Power window wiring diagrams a=
re not found in the CSM, but should be found in the Fisher Body service manu=
al.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BA=
CKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"A=
rial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
<BR>
Paul,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have several Fisher Body Manuals, as well a=
s factory service manuals, factory assembly manuals, Parts Catalogs, Mitchel=
l estimate pages, plus other various Oldsmobile books, pamphlets, etc.&nbsp;=
 Nowhere in any of the above am I able to find pictures or specific referenc=
es to where the wiring goes for a power window setup for a 70-72 Cutlass app=
lication.&nbsp; Am I missing them somewhere?&nbsp; Can you give me page numb=
ers and the exact location that you have this.&nbsp; I would be eternally gr=
ateful for it.<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Steve D</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_10c.2f6bcd69.2d5e372f_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:40:51 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: wiper switch needed

> > I have an 80 toro which needs a wiper switch 2 speed no pulse. Any one
> > got a gen 3 parts car?
>
> The switch you need was only used '79-'81.  By '82 the multi function
stalk
> controlled the wipers on the Toro.

- --------------------

Correction:  Not enough coffee yet this morning.  The stalk came out in '81
for the Toronado.  The switch you need is '79 and '80 only, and obviously
only on cars ordered without the pulse wiper option.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:01:12 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Need digest #4772

Thanks Joe Vitek, Mark Mullins, and  Branson Sparks. I got it! :)

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:24:42 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Nice Olds/442 License Plate Frame?

>Anyone know where I can get a nice Oldsmobile/442 license plate frame? I'd
>like to get something with the correct vintage Olds script or 442 lettering
>from my year (1965)

Pardon a dumb question but did you mean an Olds/442 license _plate_? i.e. 
Something you can put on the front bumper if you're lucky enough to be in a 
state that doesn't make you stick a state tag on the front?

I haven't seen Olds-specific frames but do know of a good selection of 
decorative license plates: Olds logos, Cutlass, 442, etc. The automobilia 
stores at the Volo Antique Auto Museum near here (far northwest Chicago) 
sell a variety of them and they're available elsewhere as well...

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account 
overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:29:57 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Power Window Wiring Diagrams

> Can you give me page numbers and the exact location that you have this.

Well, first I would have to find mine...

But there should be illustrations of manual and electric regulators for the doors and 1/2 panels, as well as a wiring schematic.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:40:11 -0800 (PST)
From: JEFFREY LISLE <jeffslisle@yahoo.com>
Subject: 330 problems

- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have a 65 Cutlass Convertible that I bought 18 months ago from the original owner, the car is bone stock and nothing has been rebuilt all original rust free 100,000 mile car.  The car is from WA state and drove great, no problems. 
 I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my Cutlass!  Here is were my headache starts, this Summer I drove it about 20-30 minutes in the 90+ degree weather and it would drive like a champ for those 20-30 min then it would shake, sputter and die like the timing was off, occasionally it would back fire, there was nothing I could do to get it to run right so I just parked it, the next day it started up fine and drove good for 30 min then all over again with the sputter etc.  I thought it was vapor lock, because after a couple of hours it was fine again. 
 I had to go to Korea for 6 mo. and now I am back and the weather is mild 70s.  I drove it today for about 45 min then it happened all over again!  Then water temp never got over 190 so I don't think its vapor lock?  Any help, this is so frustrating.  Thanks Jeff



- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>
<DIV>I have a 65 Cutlass Convertible that I bought 18 months ago from&nbsp;the&nbsp;original owner, the car is bone stock and nothing has been rebuilt all original rust free 100,000 mile car.&nbsp; The car is from WA state and drove great, no problems.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my Cutlass!&nbsp; Here is were my headache starts, this Summer I drove it about 20-30 minutes in the 90+ degree weather and it would drive like a champ for those 20-30 min then it would shake, sputter and die like&nbsp;the timing was off, occasionally it would back fire, there was nothing I could do to get it to run right so I just parked it, the next day it started up fine and drove good for&nbsp;30 min then all over again with the sputter etc.&nbsp; I thought it was vapor lock, because after a couple of hours it was fine again.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I had to go to Korea for 6 mo. and now I am back and the weather is mild 70s.&nbsp; I drove it today for about 45 min then it happened all over again!&nbsp; Then water temp never got over 190 so I don't think its vapor lock?&nbsp; Any help, this is so frustrating.&nbsp; Thanks Jeff</DIV></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Finance: <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=22055/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html">Get your refund fast by filing online</a>
- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:13:55 GMT
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: 330 problems

- ----__JWM__J41c6.167eS.2781M
Content-Type: text/plain; charset = us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Vapor lock isn't very common on these and usually doesn't occur at high temps and when you stop the car or idle.

I'd say fuel filter or fuel pick up are clogged. Fuel supply seems likely. 

There are other things, e.g. the coil being weak (overheating after a certain amount of time). And if it still has points, time to convert that to HEI. ;)

George

- ----__JWM__J41c6.167eS.2781M
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
Received: from mx06.nyc.untd.com (mx06.nyc.untd.com [10.140.24.66])
	by maildeliver02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAC3597AAZBE52
	for <geo.aigel@netzero.net> (sender <oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>);
	Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:40:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75])
	by mx06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAC3596AQY8L9J
	for <geo.aigel@netzero.net> (sender <oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>);
	Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:40:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: (daemon@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca) by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca
        id S7265AbUBMPiK (ORCPT <rfc822;geo.aigel@netzero.net>);
        Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:38:10 -0400
Received: from lich.chebucto.ns.Ca ([192.75.95.79]:34194 "EHLO
        lich.chebucto.ns.ca") by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca with ESMTP
        id S12160AbUBMPha (ORCPT
        <rfc822;"|/csuite/etc/majordomo/wrapper resend -l oldsmobile -h chebucto.ns.ca oldsmobile-mml">);
        Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:37:30 -0400
Received: from web60307.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.118.118]:65190 "HELO
        web60307.mail.yahoo.com") by lich.chebucto.ns.ca with SMTP
        id <S408375AbUBMPhR>; Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:37:17 -0400
Message-ID: <20040213124011.81023.qmail@web60307.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [61.25.183.19] by web60307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:40:11 PST
Date:   Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:40:11 -0800 (PST)
From:   JEFFREY LISLE <jeffslisle@yahoo.com>
Subject: 330 problems
To:     oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126"
X-MailScanner: Clean
X-Is-Spam: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.8, required 5, BAYES_00 -4.90,
        HTML_MESSAGE 0.10)
Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
X-ContentStamp: 2:3:1042073546

- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have a 65 Cutlass Convertible that I bought 18 months ago from the original owner, the car is bone stock and nothing has been rebuilt all original rust free 100,000 mile car.  The car is from WA state and drove great, no problems. 
 I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my Cutlass!  Here is were my headache starts, this Summer I drove it about 20-30 minutes in the 90+ degree weather and it would drive like a champ for those 20-30 min then it would shake, sputter and die like the timing was off, occasionally it would back fire, there was nothing I could do to get it to run right so I just parked it, the next day it started up fine and drove good for 30 min then all over again with the sputter etc.  I thought it was vapor lock, because after a couple of hours it was fine again. 
 I had to go to Korea for 6 mo. and now I am back and the weather is mild 70s.  I drove it today for about 45 min then it happened all over again!  Then water temp never got over 190 so I don't think its vapor lock?  Any help, this is so frustrating.  Thanks Jeff



- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>
<DIV>I have a 65 Cutlass Convertible that I bought 18 months ago from&nbsp;the&nbsp;original owner, the car is bone stock and nothing has been rebuilt all original rust free 100,000 mile car.&nbsp; The car is from WA state and drove great, no problems.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my Cutlass!&nbsp; Here is were my headache starts, this Summer I drove it about 20-30 minutes in the 90+ degree weather and it would drive like a champ for those 20-30 min then it would shake, sputter and die like&nbsp;the timing was off, occasionally it would back fire, there was nothing I could do to get it to run right so I just parked it, the next day it started up fine and drove good for&nbsp;30 min then all over again with the sputter etc.&nbsp; I thought it was vapor lock, because after a couple of hours it was fine again.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I had to go to Korea for 6 mo. and now I am back and the weather is mild 70s.&nbsp; I drove it today for about 45 min then it happened all over again!&nbsp; Then water temp never got over 190 so I don't think its vapor lock?&nbsp; Any help, this is so frustrating.&nbsp; Thanks Jeff</DIV></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Finance: <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=22055/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html">Get your refund fast by filing online</a>
- --0-1597371809-1076676011=:80126--

- ----__JWM__J41c6.167eS.2781M--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:35:21 -0500
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

At Friday, 13 February 2004, you wrote:
>There is nothing worse than building a new engine and not 
>getting rewarded  with a fresh and peppy new mill after 
>half a day of breaking it in and tuning it.
>
>With those symptoms, I really can't think of any scenario 
>that does not involve the builder being grossly negligent.

At the VERY LEAST, they would have heard one hell of a CHUFFF!!! 
every time the piston came back up that cylinder.

The paint overspray is still on the piston because that cylinder 
NEVER fired, from the get-go. If that engine was actually run on 
a dyno (very hard to believe), it probably made relatively-mundane 
power.

What *I* don't quite understand is why the thing wasn't backfiring 
through the intake, at least on occasion, since the exhaust valve 
was stuck open thus letting hot exhaust gas from the other cylinders 
back through the intake valve and into the intake manifold.

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:45:41 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Sales literature, was: wiper switch needed

For those of you who are interested, do not rely on sales literature for
correct applications.  I know this, but was burned again this morning.  I
thought the stalk came out in '81 for the Toro, but checked it with a handy
'81 sales catalog.  The sales catalog showed the dash mounted switch, thus
my first reply. Later, I had access to my shop manuals and looked in the '81
CSM.  Toronado had the stalk!!  Thus the correction post.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:32:25 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: wiper switch needed

Fred Nissen wrote:

>>    No luck with this on the toro list. Thought I'd give you guys a try.
> 
> 
> I saw your post on the Toro list.  I don't have a switch at the moment.  If
> you had hit me two years ago....
> 
> 
> 
>>I have an 80 toro which needs a wiper switch 2 speed no pulse. Any one
>>got a gen 3 parts car?
> 
> 
> The switch you need was only used '79-'81.  By '82 the multi function stalk
> controlled the wipers on the Toro.
> 
> Regards,
> Fred
> 
> 
> 
> 
Thanks Fred useful info
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:20:50 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 330 problems

Jeff,

This symptom can be caused by either a bad fuel filter or a
collapsed/plugged filter sock on the end of the fuel pickup in the gas tank,
or both. Check the engine fuel filter first. If that doesn't solve the
problem, drop the fuel tank and check the sock. If the sock is bad, just
throw it away and rely on a good inline fuel filter.

However, water in the gas tank will also cause a similar problem. If you
find water in the fuel filter, suspect water in the gas tank. You could also
pull the top of the carb, especially when the engine acts like it wants to
die, and see if there is any contamination in the fuel bowl, like water or
other debris.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFFREY LISLE" <jeffslisle@yahoo.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 5:40 AM
Subject: 330 problems


> I have a 65 Cutlass Convertible that I bought 18 months ago from the
original owner, the car is bone stock and nothing has been rebuilt all
original rust free 100,000 mile car.  The car is from WA state and drove
great, no problems.
>  I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my
Cutlass!  Here is were my headache starts, this Summer I drove it about
20-30 minutes in the 90+ degree weather and it would drive like a champ for
those 20-30 min then it would shake, sputter and die like the timing was
off, occasionally it would back fire, there was nothing I could do to get it
to run right so I just parked it, the next day it started up fine and drove
good for 30 min then all over again with the sputter etc.  I thought it was
vapor lock, because after a couple of hours it was fine again.
>  I had to go to Korea for 6 mo. and now I am back and the weather is mild
70s.  I drove it today for about 45 min then it happened all over again!
Then water temp never got over 190 so I don't think its vapor lock?  Any
help, this is so frustrating.  Thanks Jeff
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:29:00 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

> What *I* don't quite understand is why the thing wasn't backfiring
> through the intake, at least on occasion, since the exhaust valve > was
stuck open thus letting hot exhaust gas from the other cylinders
> back through the intake valve and into the intake manifold.


Only a leaking intake will backfire through the carb. The explosion occurs
when both valves are closed at TDC firing, so a leaking intake will backfire
through the carb, and a leaking exhaust will simply drain power from the
cylinder, causing the engine to miss. That's why the classic test for a
leaking exhaust valve is to hold a Kleenex at the end of the tailpipe and
see if a vacuum pulse tries to pull the Kleenex into the tailpipe. If
there's a leaking exhaust valve, it will suck the Kleenex in a little, or a
lot, depending on how bad it is.

So, the 2 shadetree tests for leaking valves are:

intakes backfire,
and exhausts suck Kleenex into tailpipes.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:51:02 -0500
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: Oldsmohut redux

I know I asked this already, and I probably deleted some responses without
realizing it. If anybody did answer this, please forward your response to me
privately.

Anybody know who is selling the Oldsmohut these days? I bought my last one
from Costco, but they don't seem to carry them any more.

I'm thinking about buying the thing just for the frame, and attaching T-111
to it with U-bolts so it's not so crappy looking and can have a door that
can be locked. Methinks I need to put up a storage building fast.

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:26:44 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Update for stuck 455 valve

At 12:29 PM 2/13/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>So, the 2 shadetree tests for leaking valves are:
>
>intakes backfire,
>and exhausts suck Kleenex into tailpipes.

So, what causes backfires when the throttle is sometimes snapped open?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:58:17 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: 330 problems

At 04:40 AM 2/13/2004 -0800, Jeffrey Lisle wrote:

>  I am in the USAF and got orders to Okinawa, and am authorized to ship my 
> Cutlass!  Here is were my headache starts

Jeff,
I expect you're probably more right than you know.  I'm sure that you'll 
have a blast having the Cutlass in Okinawa, but a few things to 
consider.  Rust will be a major problem.  If you have any at all now, it 
can quickly get out of control.  Fuel is expensive.  Even on base, the fuel 
contract is only renewed yearly, so you have constant prices 1 year at a 
time.  All depends on market price when AAFES settles their 
contract.  Unless you have base housing, finding a place to park that thing 
can be problematic also.  Don't forget to consider narrower roads and heavy 
traffic.  On the other hand, it'll be one of a handful of American cars on 
the island.  The turnpike is the only place you'll ever be able to open it 
up though.

Good luck, have fun, and Thanks.



Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:14:54 -0600
From: "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
Subject: Seat Cover Quality

I would like to get some feedback on quality of seat covers from the
different manufacturers and their distributors (Fusik, YearOne, others)
Thanks,  Dan

Dan Bodine
70 W31 4 Speed
71 442
OCA member

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:35:01 -0500
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Oldsmohut redux

The hut costs about $150 if you can find one. I doubt it would support a
wood roof very well. Sounds like you should just use 2X's and build a shed.
It would also last longer as you said you already have a foundation.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:51 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Oldsmohut redux


I know I asked this already, and I probably deleted some responses without
realizing it. If anybody did answer this, please forward your response to me
privately.

Anybody know who is selling the Oldsmohut these days? I bought my last one
from Costco, but they don't seem to carry them any more.

I'm thinking about buying the thing just for the frame, and attaching T-111
to it with U-bolts so it's not so crappy looking and can have a door that
can be locked. Methinks I need to put up a storage building fast.

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:12:15 -0600
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: The Great Firewall Drill

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Hello, all...

I started the amp installation today. In other words, I got
the fusable link installed from the battery. I looked for a
place to get through the firewall, and realized that it was
going to be a much bigger production than I thought. Any
suggestions? The steering column has a plate around it--no
chance there. I'm probably going to try to wiggle through
where the hood pop cable goes into the cabin...


- --Branson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:18:49 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: The Great Firewall Drill

At 08:12 PM 2/13/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>Hello, all...
>
>I started the amp installation today. In other words, I got
>the fusable link installed from the battery. I looked for a
>place to get through the firewall, and realized that it was
>going to be a much bigger production than I thought. Any
>suggestions? The steering column has a plate around it--no
>chance there. I'm probably going to try to wiggle through
>where the hood pop cable goes into the cabin...

How about through the speedometer cable grommet?

If this had a Ch*bby engine, you could go through the large grommet on the
passenger's side through which the computer harnesses go. A Ch*bby has the
battery on the passenger's side so the cable would be heading straight
back. This's bout the only good thing I can think of about having a Ch*bby
engine  ;o\

I installed an oil pressure gauge and also ran a cupla extra wires for tach
and something else. Not being concerned about originality, I just drilled a
hole in the firewall right above the distributor between the heater/AC
ducts (inside the cabin). The high location of that hole keeps it outta
road splash, etc. but I still found and installed a grommet to protect the
wires/tubing. Drilled a pilot hole from the inside using a 6" long
industrial bit then enlarged it from the outside.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:49:25 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: early FI, Olds and Caddy

All,

	I understand that the 350 Olds engines in the Seville with fuel injection
was actually a port-fuel injection form.

	How about the 500CI, and later 425 and 368 caddy motors?  Were they port
injection, or throttle-body?  I've never seen one in person.

	Thanks!

	- Joe

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4775
*********************************
