
oldsmobile-digest     Saturday, January 10 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4738



Caught a scammer? Hang 'em high!
Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?
Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:44:59 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Caught a scammer? Hang 'em high!

If you get overpaid with a cashiers check and need to forward money 
elsewhere,
it is 100% a scam.
====================
Convince them to send the check
It will likely come FedEx
If you dig into the FedEx paperwork enough you will find that it originated 
in Great Britain

Take the check and have fun with it, offer it to restaurant for dinner 
payment [keep the change], etc.

String the scammer along as much as you can tolerate, get him to spend $ on 
phone calls. Act stupid and repeat everything he says. Be sure to state that 
your house/ marriage/ very life depends on getting the $ from selling the 
car. There is NO reason whatsoever that would stop them from stealing your 
money, even if they thought you would DIE for lack of an operation if you 
did not have the money. They are absolutley cold blooded. Lose your house? 
Too bad, rich American!

   The latest story I gave them was:
- -Cashed the check [he thinks the clock is ticking, check will turn out fake 
soon]
- -Went to get car into town for shipment prep
- -Put cash in glovebox
- -got pulled over, cops found incorrect LPlates, outstanding traffic 
warrants, small amt of "party supplies", etc.
- -Got arrested, car impounded.
- -Need YOU [the scammer] to _wire_ ME $300 to get the car out of impound
- -Then I will wire you that $300 plus your $8000 for sure same day I swear.

If they send the $300, keep it and SPREAD THE WORD to USA victims that the 
scammers too can be scammed.
Of course they will not send you anything but more emails
But it's fun TRYING
You will find that they trust you with $8000 [as long as it's not REAL], but 
not $300.
They start with the threats about day #3
"You will be talking to the FBI, my friend!"
[Go ahead, they are not all that interested, been there done that]
That's when you tell them you blew "Their" $ on drugs and women and 
gambling.
Laugh at how foolish they were to trust you with so much money when they 
don't know you.
There is no "shipper"
They surely do not _want_ your car/ truck/ bike/ cow anyhow

If they ever do show up in the USA, let me know, I have the rope ready.

Cashier's checks certainly ARE being faked, and your bank will cash it NO 
PROBLEMS.
It can take up to SEVERAL WEEKS before they banks quit attempting to cash it 
and hold you responsible for the $ amt.

PS the investigators might want a copy of the "check" faxed to them, as if 
that will help.
Just call the bank on the ck [anywho.com gives phone #'s if not on the ck] 
and inquire, within a minute or 2 you will know that the ck is fake. My 
latest one was from Evertrust bank in WA state.

Any Google or similar search on "Nigerian Check Scam" will bring up many 
results.
Try a 'net search on [your guy's name] and "fraud", see what turns up.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:27:08 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

All,

	Ho-kay, got myself an engine stand finally . . after much procrastination.
 Hey, between a sale the local parts place (where I now work at) had, and
the $25 gift certificate bonus I got (hey, I only worked there a month so
far, didn't even expect THAT much!), I got a presumably decent engine stand
that has a 1000 lb capacity.  Seems like a little overkill, but one of the
fellow employees says they're good.

	To quote him "Yeah, I don't have a garage.  Had an engine on it and had to
wheel it across the dirt and gravel strewn back yard.  So I'd say it's
pretty strong and stable!"


	Now I have to get a hoist though.  Looked at the one we have in stock, and
it says 2000 lbs capacity, and goes for $200.

	I'm thinking that 2000 lbs might be overkill.  I'm not hauling out a heavy
duty diesel or anything.  The only other one we carry we'd have to order,
and is something like a 5000 lb capacity hoist, and notably more money.
Definitely more than I need.

	Given my serious shortage of cash situation, I'm wondering, are there
lighter duty ones available for less?  If so, whereabouts and how much?

	Or is there something more than just the weight of the engine that's
implied by the weight capacity of these things?  I mean, I'm figuring the
455 complete from carb to oilpan plus the TH400 probably doesn't hit the
1000 lb mark.


	Thanks!

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:28:32 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

Those are static loads you may find heavier is better. I pulled the 455 
out of my toro last summer with a 4 ton rated lift. also heavier is 
better for the engine stand too.
There is a lift on e-bay right now with no bids starting at $110.00 in 
dallas tx don't know what shipping would be
Good luck
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:38:46 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

Joe,

You're forgetting a couple of things. There is a safety factor built in,
but:

> I got a presumably decent engine stand
> that has a 1000 lb capacity.  Seems like a little overkill, but one of the
> fellow employees says they're good.


No, your engine could hit a good 700 pounds. The engine is attached by the
bellhousing bolts and projecting outward from the upright steel post. That's
one hell of a lever action, a nice fulcrum. The attaching bolts at the base
of the upright post have a hell of alot of stress on them. I make sure those
bolts are grade 8, and if not, I replace them. I also use grade 8 bolts to
attach the 4 prong engine holder to the bellhousing and for the adjustment
bolts on the engine holder.


> I'm thinking that 2000 lbs might be overkill.  I'm not hauling out a heavy
> duty diesel or anything.  The only other one we carry we'd have to order,
> and is something like a 5000 lb capacity hoist, and notably more money.
> Definitely more than I need.


No. Where's the 2000 pound rating located? Remember, the arm of that hoist
is a really long lever. The farther out the weight, the less the hoist arm
will support. The last thing you want is a fatigue break or a sag.


> Given my serious shortage of cash situation, I'm wondering, are there
> lighter duty ones available for less?  If so, whereabouts and how much?


No. That's the lightest load available, because of the lever action of the
outward reaching arm.


> Or is there something more than just the weight of the engine that's
> implied by the weight capacity of these things?  I mean, I'm figuring the
> 455 complete from carb to oilpan plus the TH400 probably doesn't hit the
> 1000 lb mark.


Exactly. The dynamic forces created by a lever. You are using a fulcrum.

The engine, torque converter, and transmission will hit right at 1000
pounds.

I don't want you to drop it on your toe. I dropped a 2500 pound trencher
boom, with chain drive and digging teeth, on my right foot once. Everything
healed perfectly, but it sure wasn't fun. And a steel toed boot would have
made everything much worse, in my particular case, because of the nature of
where it hit and how it hit.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:48:36 -0500
From: Joe Vitek <joevitek@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

"Infinite Space Systems, Inc." wrote:

> And a steel toed boot would have
> made everything much worse, in my particular case, because of the nature of
> where it hit and how it hit.

Prolly would have chopped your foot off. The same argument for seatbelts and
4-wheel drive. Seatbelts may save your life in most cases, there are times
that they will kill you in an otherwise non-deadly situation. Same analogy
with a 4x4. If you get stuck in a 2x4, you can't get that deep by trying in
vain to get out. With a 4x4, you're less likely to get stuck, but when you do,
you dig in to the axles/floorpan trying to get out.

Safety equipment isn't failsafe. However, in the case of the hoist and stand,
the bigger the better. Can't go wrong.

- --
joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:28:00 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

At 11:27 AM 1/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>All,
>
>Ho-kay, got myself an engine stand finally . . after much procrastination.
>Hey, between a sale the local parts place (where I now work at) had, and
>the $25 gift certificate bonus I got (hey, I only worked there a month so
>far, didn't even expect THAT much!), I got a presumably decent engine stand
>that has a 1000 lb capacity.  Seems like a little overkill, but one of the
>fellow employees says they're good.

Ummm.... I predict that once you have something heavier than an Olds short
block on that 1000#-rated stand, you'll be wishing you'd gotten the 1500#
model  ;o\  I've got a 1500-pounder and it makes me nervous when my
completed 425 begins bouncing and swaying around while tightening intake
manifold bolts. My high school buddy welded his own together long ago and
THAT was certainly overkill, as it was made of 3" tubing, 1/4" wall, with
1/4" gusset plates between the legs and vertical stand member. It didn't
sway even with a complete Poncho or BBC hanging on it, either of which
weigh over 650#  ;o\

>Now I have to get a hoist though.  Looked at the one we have in stock, and
>it says 2000 lbs capacity, and goes for $200.

Others have called them "gypsy merchants" but the one I got from
www.homier.com has proven to be pretty robust. That's also where I got my
stand. IIRC, the pair cost me something just under $150. They drive around
from community to community in half a dozen long tractor-trailers, holding
weekend-long sales at various public facilities such as the local college
auditorium, etc. There's other people besides Homier like Harbor Freight;
one whose name escapes me came through my area last summer. The difference
in quality of ALL their stuff was ASTOUNDING; clearly, each merchant got
their stuff from different Red Chinese suppliers  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

Another inneresting thing about these "gypsy merchants" is that often, they
have factory-reconditioned power tools and such, name-brands like
Milwaukee, DeWalt, even Craftsman. The prices are often unbelievable if
you've never seen one of these "gypsy merchants" before. But I found this
last merchant was about 50% higher than Homier's schtuff had been, roughly
what Harbor Freight charges.

And no: when I bought my stand and hoist, I DID NOT enjoy the queasy
feeling of buying Chinese stuff  ;o((((((((  But when you can't afford
good, ole red-blooded American schtuff, what's you gwan do, eh.

>I'm thinking that 2000 lbs might be overkill.

Believe you me, it is NOT: I'd consider that barely adequate. Go for the
2500 or 3000# model if you can.

Another thought, if you have a garage: consider buying a come-along or
chain-fall, and laying some strong 4x6 in your garage rafters, resting upon
the walls on either side. As long as you don't get the engine swaying
dangerously, that's far superior to using a free-standing hoist in my opinion.

>The only other one we carry we'd have to order, and is something 
>like a 5000 lb capacity hoist, and notably more money.
>Definitely more than I need.

Yes, probably. OTOH, it will be STABLE with a relatively-light load on it
like your Olds engines.

There's more to consider than merely the load rating, though, such as the
WHEELS: are they LARGE, and so may not fit underneath your car??? How are
the legs laid out: are they splayed at a wide angle such that they may not
fit underneath a car without removing the car's wheels? You DO NOT want to
have to remove the car's wheels because oftentimes, you can't move a loaded
hoist with an engine hanging from it, and you wind up having to push the
car out from under it.

DO NOT forget to pay attention to the legs, including their height, and how
they are arranged and reinforced. For example, the guy I bought my 425 from
brought it over in his truck. Not having a hoist, he brought his own
portable hoist. Not having a stand, I reinforced a heavy-duty wooden pallet
and installed decent castors under it. When the guy lifted the engine out
of his truck, we discovered that the layout of the legs of his hoist would
not clear my pallet and we wound up having to let the engine down on the
driveway. There it sat, for the next year, until Homier & Co. came around
and I bought a stand and my own hoist from them.

>Given my serious shortage of cash situation, I'm wondering, are there
>lighter duty ones available for less?  If so, whereabouts and how much?

When the other "gypsy merchants" came around, they had just about as wide a
selection of tools and equipment that Homier did. But close examination of
the 2nd company's products revealed their stuff was of CONSIDERABLY less
quality than the stuff I remembered Homier having. Welds were spotty or
splotchy or not completely painted, for example. Reinforcing crossmembers
were of lighter or thinner construction than I thought reasonable. Sharp,
unsmoothed edges on some stuff that would cut your unprotected hands. The
engine load-levelers they had were pitiful, being constructed of
light-gauge sheet steel and using what appeared to be ordinary soft-steel
threaded rod and nuts whereas I thought I remembered the Homier levelers
actually having real jackscrews (no idea whether they were hardened steel,
though). Basically, the 2nd company's stuff looked more like "use it once,
throw it away". I didn't buy very much from them other than a spring
compressor and even that didn't prove to work very well, as Jim Zito and I
found out later when we tried reinstalling the springs in his '69 (turned
out my Big Foot worked better with what we happened to be doing at the time
 :o)))))

So there ARE quality differences in all this Red Chinese stuff; and
unfortunately, you can't often see or find those differences from the small
pictures in the catalogs put out by, for example, Harbor Freight, which is
why I never seriously considered buying my hoist or stand from them. Since
I want mine to last awhile, I want to actually SEE how they are built, how
they might be repaired if they break, and how they work together. For
example, MAKE DANG SURE that your hoist's legs will CLEAR YOUR ENGINE
STAND'S LEGS!!! Otherwise, you won't be able to use the two together.

Another thing: I don't really trust the Chicago-brand schtuff that Harbor
Freight and this 2nd gypsy-merchant had. While the schtuff appeared much
like other name-brands, it sometimes didn't really look like it was as
heavy-duty. They all also have some off-brand die grinders, angle grinders,
and the like. I bought one 12,000 rpm 3-1/2" angle grinder from Homier for
$6.99 and after just 15 minutes, it sounds like the bearing is already
shot. I used to own a nice Makita 3-1/2" angle grinder I bought from a
local hardware store for $45 that I put over 24 hours on before it got lost
in a storage space incident and it was still going strong. I'll be a little
more cautious next time I buy a power tool from Homier or another "gypsy
merchant" ;o\  (Still, can't hardly lose at $6.99, what hey  ;o)

>Or is there something more than just the weight of the engine that's
>implied by the weight capacity of these things?  I mean, I'm figuring the
>455 complete from carb to oilpan plus the TH400 probably doesn't hit the
>1000 lb mark.

It doesn't; but just because the STATIC weight isn't close to the stand's
rating, doesn't mean the stand will be STABLE when you start lifting heavy
items on the block and trying to torque main and head bolts. The LAST thing
you want your stand doing is a dance while you're trying to read your
torque wrench.

Another thing to check out on a stand is whether the block bracket will
allow you to mount the flywheel on the rear of the crank to rotate the
engine's crank. Sometimes, it's far easier to be able to grab the flywheel
than having to put your torque wrench on the crank snot bolt to rotate it.
And the construction of the four angled brackets that bolt to the back of
the block are important. The 2nd gypsy's stands used bent soft steel strap
that I could see flex when I hung my body weight on them. And they were not
formed uniformly, which meant one or two needed to have thick, wide washers
under the bolts to make sure the bolt heads wouldn't slip between the bent
strap. The Homier model, OTOH, also used steel strap but there are pieces
of pipe welded to the ends of each bent strap through which the bolts go;
that's stronger and more-rigid (assuming the welds didn't weaken the strap
material).

If you're waiting for the weather to warm up so have a cupla months to
wait, I'd try e-mailing Homier and seeing whether they're be coming to a
show near you anytime soon, then wait till they get there and having a
look. They also have some fairly-decent measurement instruments...
calipers, gages, etc. (everything except snap gages) that I checked out for
accuracy at work. Bought me everything I'll be needing except snap gages
for less than $30, complete with padded wooden cases. They're not the
absolute best but dadnabbit, for $30, they sure are better than NOTHING  ;o\

It's entirely possible... nay, PROBABLE... that Homier will have schtuff
from a different manufacturer next time. So the quality of the schtuff that
I already bought may not be represented the next time I see their schtuff.
Conversely, the 2nd "gypsy merchant" may well have BETTER schtuff next time
 ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:03:56 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

At 10:38 AM 1/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>No, your engine could hit a good 700 pounds. The engine is attached by the
>bellhousing bolts and projecting outward from the upright steel post. That's
>one hell of a lever action, a nice fulcrum. The attaching bolts at the base
>of the upright post have a hell of alot of stress on them. I make sure those
>bolts are grade 8, and if not, I replace them. I also use grade 8 bolts to
>attach the 4 prong engine holder to the bellhousing and for the adjustment
>bolts on the engine holder.

Stock bellhousing bolts probably aren't grade 8, so even if they're long
enough (and they usually aren't, anyhow) don't consider using them for your
stand. Go hunt down the grade 8 types and save your stock bolts for your car.

>> I'm thinking that 2000 lbs might be overkill.
>
>No. Where's the 2000 pound rating located? Remember, the arm of that hoist
>is a really long lever. The farther out the weight, the less the hoist arm
>will support. The last thing you want is a fatigue break or a sag.
.......
>Exactly. The dynamic forces created by a lever. You are using a fulcrum.
>
>The engine, torque converter, and transmission will hit right at 1000
>pounds.

The lifting rating of those hoists is what you can hang from the far end,
according to the sheets you get with them. So that fulcrum-action is
normally already included. But it doesn't hurt to do some calculations. For
example, when the 2nd gypsy-merchant came through here last summer, they
had one smaller, 1000-pound-rated non-adjustable hoist. But I noticed the
smallish-looking hydraulic pump was only rated at (GASP!) 3 tons, or 6000
pounds. Grabbing a tape measure from a nearby table, I measured the length
of the "arm" to be 5 feet from the pump to the tip of the arm. Thus, the
load on the pump would be 5 times whatever you hung from the arm. A load of
6000/5 would be placed on the pump to meet it's rated capacity, or about
1200 pounds. When you're lifting an engine/tranny from a car, the total can
be awfully close to 900 pounds. Sometimes, something will snag and you'll
be lifting the car until you see the snag, so the load can increase
considerably beyond that.

Then there's the occasion when the engine/tranny starts swaying around, or
bouncing around. Overall, although the pump was just within the rating of
the hoist, everything was just too close to the edge. I would have rated
that particular hoist at no more than 750 pounds.

Ever exceeded the lift-rating of a hydraulic piston pump?? They just won't
go up any further. I've always wondered whether something inside might pop
and explode when the weight is at that limit  ============8-O

>I don't want you to drop it on your toe. I dropped a 2500 pound trencher
>boom, with chain drive and digging teeth, on my right foot once. Everything
>healed perfectly, but it sure wasn't fun. And a steel toed boot would have
>made everything much worse, in my particular case, because of the nature of
>where it hit and how it hit.

Steel-toed, ESD-proof shoes are required on our production floor at work.
Our caster-mounted floor medical instruments (roughly 5-6 feet long, 3-feet
tall and deep, weighing up to 1200 pounds fully-assembled) are supported on
an electro-hydraulic lift for ease of assembly of the lower portions of the
frames such as installing wiring harnesses and the like. The lifts are
commercially-available with an inverted rectangular steel tray that the
instrument is wheeled over and which then fits into the bottom frame of the
instrument to rigidly support it in the air. But when the hydraulic lifts
raise the instrument off the floor, there is NOTHING to prevent someone
from getting one's feet underneath the steel tray supporting the instrument. 

A cupla years ago, the operator of one lift had stood up and shifted her
feet backward to keep her balance as she laid her hand on top of the
instrument to pull herself to her feet, and the lift partially collapsed.
It was an extremely-serious safety incident that had to be reported to
OSHA, and resulted in every lift undergoing complete rebuild by the
manufacturer the next week; until they showed up, production could not use
any of the lifts. Now, each lift is thoroughly checked and maintained every
six months by the manufacturer's rep. Had the lift broken down completely,
the edge of the steel tray could have caught the steel-toed shoe of the
operator. Those steel toes may support a static weight of 1200 pounds but a
1000-pound instrument on a lift that suddenly gives way is going to impart
a force FAR MORE than 1200 pounds when it suddenly crushes down on your
steel-toed shoe  ;o((((((((((((

In subsequent retraining of floor assemblers on use of the lifts, and to
show them what COULD have happened, they actually placed a pair of
steel-toed safety shoes underneath the steel tray of a lift, then the
lift's manufacturer released a valve, letting the lift and 1000 pounds of
dummy weight on the lift's tray suddenly crash onto the shoes. The toe
protection arch was collapsed to less than 1/2 inch height. I rather doubt
that many hospital emergency rooms are going to have equipment to remove a
collapsed safety shoe toe arch without having to cut off your toes
;o(((((((((((((((  We had to buy a special tool for our medical specialist
person (who then had to be specially-trained in its use), specially
designed to open a collapsed toe arch, just in case that did happen to
somebody. I have no idea whether the cute, young medical-specialist-thang
would be capable of operating that tool when there's blood and gore
dripping out of a shoe, though XoP

It's been said before and will bear repeating forever-more: ALWAYS buy as
much safety margin as you can afford.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:12:21 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

  engine stand rated at 1000 lbs sags with a olds bb on it fully assembled
  on a hoist it may be rated at 2000 lbs but that does not make it a good hoist i bought one from
sams club 200.00 the thing with engine lifted out of engine bay was unsterdy as heck .
  lowered engine  back into chassis and spent 3 hrs cutting and welding re enforcement's on cheap
hoist, then another 1.5 hrs strenghting engine stand.

  watch moveing engine around when lifted high to clear noseif car, my friends dropped ponch 455 on
fender of his 74 gto, he almost was stupid enough to try to catch it.
   i say save for a better qaulity one, or go to a sale where garrage is going out of buis.
  bought mine for 250.00 both
  ron
      ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?


  > At 11:27 AM 1/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
  > >All,
  > >
  > >Ho-kay, got myself an engine stand finally . . after much procrastination.
  > >Hey, between a sale the local parts place (where I now work at) had, and
  > >the $25 gift certificate bonus I got (hey, I only worked there a month so
  > >far, didn't even expect THAT much!), I got a presumably decent engine stand
  > >that has a 1000 lb capacity.  Seems like a little overkill, but one of the
  > >fellow employees says they're good.
  >
  > Ummm.... I predict that once you have something heavier than an Olds short
  > block on that 1000#-rated stand, you'll be wishing you'd gotten the 1500#
  > model  ;o\  I've got a 1500-pounder and it makes me nervous when my
  > completed 425 begins bouncing and swaying around while tightening intake
  > manifold bolts. My high school buddy welded his own together long ago and
  > THAT was certainly overkill, as it was made of 3" tubing, 1/4" wall, with
  > 1/4" gusset plates between the legs and vertical stand member. It didn't
  > sway even with a complete Poncho or BBC hanging on it, either of which
  > weigh over 650#  ;o\
  >
  > >Now I have to get a hoist though.  Looked at the one we have in stock, and
  > >it says 2000 lbs capacity, and goes for $200.
  >
  > Others have called them "gypsy merchants" but the one I got from
  > www.homier.com has proven to be pretty robust. That's also where I got my
  > stand. IIRC, the pair cost me something just under $150. They drive around
  > from community to community in half a dozen long tractor-trailers, holding
  > weekend-long sales at various public facilities such as the local college
  > auditorium, etc. There's other people besides Homier like Harbor Freight;
  > one whose name escapes me came through my area last summer. The difference
  > in quality of ALL their stuff was ASTOUNDING; clearly, each merchant got
  > their stuff from different Red Chinese suppliers  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\
  >
  > Another inneresting thing about these "gypsy merchants" is that often, they
  > have factory-reconditioned power tools and such, name-brands like
  > Milwaukee, DeWalt, even Craftsman. The prices are often unbelievable if
  > you've never seen one of these "gypsy merchants" before. But I found this
  > last merchant was about 50% higher than Homier's schtuff had been, roughly
  > what Harbor Freight charges.
  >
  > And no: when I bought my stand and hoist, I DID NOT enjoy the queasy
  > feeling of buying Chinese stuff  ;o((((((((  But when you can't afford
  > good, ole red-blooded American schtuff, what's you gwan do, eh.
  >
  > >I'm thinking that 2000 lbs might be overkill.
  >
  > Believe you me, it is NOT: I'd consider that barely adequate. Go for the
  > 2500 or 3000# model if you can.
  >
  > Another thought, if you have a garage: consider buying a come-along or
  > chain-fall, and laying some strong 4x6 in your garage rafters, resting upon
  > the walls on either side. As long as you don't get the engine swaying
  > dangerously, that's far superior to using a free-standing hoist in my opinion.
  >
  > >The only other one we carry we'd have to order, and is something
  > >like a 5000 lb capacity hoist, and notably more money.
  > >Definitely more than I need.
  >
  > Yes, probably. OTOH, it will be STABLE with a relatively-light load on it
  > like your Olds engines.
  >
  > There's more to consider than merely the load rating, though, such as the
  > WHEELS: are they LARGE, and so may not fit underneath your car??? How are
  > the legs laid out: are they splayed at a wide angle such that they may not
  > fit underneath a car without removing the car's wheels? You DO NOT want to
  > have to remove the car's wheels because oftentimes, you can't move a loaded
  > hoist with an engine hanging from it, and you wind up having to push the
  > car out from under it.
  >
  > DO NOT forget to pay attention to the legs, including their height, and how
  > they are arranged and reinforced. For example, the guy I bought my 425 from
  > brought it over in his truck. Not having a hoist, he brought his own
  > portable hoist. Not having a stand, I reinforced a heavy-duty wooden pallet
  > and installed decent castors under it. When the guy lifted the engine out
  > of his truck, we discovered that the layout of the legs of his hoist would
  > not clear my pallet and we wound up having to let the engine down on the
  > driveway. There it sat, for the next year, until Homier & Co. came around
  > and I bought a stand and my own hoist from them.
  >
  > >Given my serious shortage of cash situation, I'm wondering, are there
  > >lighter duty ones available for less?  If so, whereabouts and how much?
  >
  > When the other "gypsy merchants" came around, they had just about as wide a
  > selection of tools and equipment that Homier did. But close examination of
  > the 2nd company's products revealed their stuff was of CONSIDERABLY less
  > quality than the stuff I remembered Homier having. Welds were spotty or
  > splotchy or not completely painted, for example. Reinforcing crossmembers
  > were of lighter or thinner construction than I thought reasonable. Sharp,
  > unsmoothed edges on some stuff that would cut your unprotected hands. The
  > engine load-levelers they had were pitiful, being constructed of
  > light-gauge sheet steel and using what appeared to be ordinary soft-steel
  > threaded rod and nuts whereas I thought I remembered the Homier levelers
  > actually having real jackscrews (no idea whether they were hardened steel,
  > though). Basically, the 2nd company's stuff looked more like "use it once,
  > throw it away". I didn't buy very much from them other than a spring
  > compressor and even that didn't prove to work very well, as Jim Zito and I
  > found out later when we tried reinstalling the springs in his '69 (turned
  > out my Big Foot worked better with what we happened to be doing at the time
  >  :o)))))
  >
  > So there ARE quality differences in all this Red Chinese stuff; and
  > unfortunately, you can't often see or find those differences from the small
  > pictures in the catalogs put out by, for example, Harbor Freight, which is
  > why I never seriously considered buying my hoist or stand from them. Since
  > I want mine to last awhile, I want to actually SEE how they are built, how
  > they might be repaired if they break, and how they work together. For
  > example, MAKE DANG SURE that your hoist's legs will CLEAR YOUR ENGINE
  > STAND'S LEGS!!! Otherwise, you won't be able to use the two together.
  >
  > Another thing: I don't really trust the Chicago-brand schtuff that Harbor
  > Freight and this 2nd gypsy-merchant had. While the schtuff appeared much
  > like other name-brands, it sometimes didn't really look like it was as
  > heavy-duty. They all also have some off-brand die grinders, angle grinders,
  > and the like. I bought one 12,000 rpm 3-1/2" angle grinder from Homier for
  > $6.99 and after just 15 minutes, it sounds like the bearing is already
  > shot. I used to own a nice Makita 3-1/2" angle grinder I bought from a
  > local hardware store for $45 that I put over 24 hours on before it got lost
  > in a storage space incident and it was still going strong. I'll be a little
  > more cautious next time I buy a power tool from Homier or another "gypsy
  > merchant" ;o\  (Still, can't hardly lose at $6.99, what hey  ;o)
  >
  > >Or is there something more than just the weight of the engine that's
  > >implied by the weight capacity of these things?  I mean, I'm figuring the
  > >455 complete from carb to oilpan plus the TH400 probably doesn't hit the
  > >1000 lb mark.
  >
  > It doesn't; but just because the STATIC weight isn't close to the stand's
  > rating, doesn't mean the stand will be STABLE when you start lifting heavy
  > items on the block and trying to torque main and head bolts. The LAST thing
  > you want your stand doing is a dance while you're trying to read your
  > torque wrench.
  >
  > Another thing to check out on a stand is whether the block bracket will
  > allow you to mount the flywheel on the rear of the crank to rotate the
  > engine's crank. Sometimes, it's far easier to be able to grab the flywheel
  > than having to put your torque wrench on the crank snot bolt to rotate it.
  > And the construction of the four angled brackets that bolt to the back of
  > the block are important. The 2nd gypsy's stands used bent soft steel strap
  > that I could see flex when I hung my body weight on them. And they were not
  > formed uniformly, which meant one or two needed to have thick, wide washers
  > under the bolts to make sure the bolt heads wouldn't slip between the bent
  > strap. The Homier model, OTOH, also used steel strap but there are pieces
  > of pipe welded to the ends of each bent strap through which the bolts go;
  > that's stronger and more-rigid (assuming the welds didn't weaken the strap
  > material).
  >
  > If you're waiting for the weather to warm up so have a cupla months to
  > wait, I'd try e-mailing Homier and seeing whether they're be coming to a
  > show near you anytime soon, then wait till they get there and having a
  > look. They also have some fairly-decent measurement instruments...
  > calipers, gages, etc. (everything except snap gages) that I checked out for
  > accuracy at work. Bought me everything I'll be needing except snap gages
  > for less than $30, complete with padded wooden cases. They're not the
  > absolute best but dadnabbit, for $30, they sure are better than NOTHING  ;o\
  >
  > It's entirely possible... nay, PROBABLE... that Homier will have schtuff
  > from a different manufacturer next time. So the quality of the schtuff that
  > I already bought may not be represented the next time I see their schtuff.
  > Conversely, the 2nd "gypsy merchant" may well have BETTER schtuff next time
  >  ;o\
  >
  > SteveH
  >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:16:57 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

  i have been in 2 accidents where seat belts would of made  it impossable to walk away from, thats
why i wont wear mine
  4 wheel drive well that depends on amount of for thought  before entering the mud. but  its always
something to laugh about later.

    agree with you on the hoist and stand  bigger is better
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Joe Vitek" <joevitek@comcast.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:48 PM
  Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?


  > "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." wrote:
  >
  > > And a steel toed boot would have
  > > made everything much worse, in my particular case, because of the nature of
  > > where it hit and how it hit.
  >
  > Prolly would have chopped your foot off. The same argument for seatbelts and
  > 4-wheel drive. Seatbelts may save your life in most cases, there are times
  > that they will kill you in an otherwise non-deadly situation. Same analogy
  > with a 4x4. If you get stuck in a 2x4, you can't get that deep by trying in
  > vain to get out. With a 4x4, you're less likely to get stuck, but when you do,
  > you dig in to the axles/floorpan trying to get out.
  >
  > Safety equipment isn't failsafe. However, in the case of the hoist and stand,
  > the bigger the better. Can't go wrong.
  >
  > --
  > joe
  >

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:43:21 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Engine hoists..... rated weight?

Steve, Joe V., & List,

> The toe
> protection arch was collapsed to less than 1/2 inch height.


That's what would have happened to me. Instead, I simply broke the fifth
metatarsile (SP) in my right foot.


> I rather doubt
> that many hospital emergency rooms are going to have equipment to remove a
> collapsed safety shoe toe arch without having to cut off your toes
> ;o(((((((((((((((  We had to buy a special tool for our medical specialist
> person (who then had to be specially-trained in its use), specially
> designed to open a collapsed toe arch, just in case that did happen to
> somebody.


Exactly!


> It's been said before and will bear repeating forever-more: ALWAYS buy as
> much safety margin as you can afford.


Double to pentagonal exactly!

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4738
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