
oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, January 7 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4734



Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: Brake bleeding
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit - condensor ?????
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit - condensor ?????
Re: Brake bleeding
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #4733
RE: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
RE: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: Brake bleeding
Re: Brake bleeding
RE: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: Brake bleeding
RE: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
more brake fun
Wanted: 62 Starfire/88 Rear Bumper
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
Re: 455 HEI Tidbit
UPDATE: looking for water pump 400269

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:46:27 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

> the condenser does, indeed, go bad.


If I'm not mistaken, that's really a capacitor. It's used to suppress RFI to
keep static out of the radio. A points distributor car and engine had a
capacitor on the coil and on the external regulator to suppress RFI and help
remove static from the radio. On a HEI, the coil in the cap needs RFI
suppression for the radio. However, when the capacitor goes bad, it's a
direct short to ground, or it could also be an intermittent short to ground,
because it's hooked directly into a live electrical circuit. That stops an
ignition system real quick. I believe the only reason it's on an HEI is RFI
suppression to make the radio work.

For the condenser inside a points distributor, I can't remember why it was
used. I checked the '64 and '65 Olds Shop Manuals, just to see if they said
anything as to the real job of that condenser, but nothing. However, both
Shop Manuals were very emphatic on the use of capacitors to suppress RFI for
the radio and their locations.


> They used to come in any new points kit.


They sure did, all the time. With a uni-body points set, the condenser is
physically attached to the points, which leads me to believe the condenser
may stablize the current to the points in some way. Maybe, the condenser
prevented RFI from affecting electrical current quality at the points. RFI
(radio frequency interference) is generated by the spark plugs. The
electrical discharge across the spark gap actually produces a small amount
of X-rays (gamma radiation), which is a mirowave frequency and can be picked
up by a radio antenna as static.

I can also tell you one way to take out a police radar gun, and interfere
with airport and aircraft radar at the same time. Install a Vertex magneto
in your engine a run solid copper or stainless steel ignition wires, which
is all you can use with a magneto, anyway. The tremendous amplitude of RFI
generated will override the signal from and to a police radar gun, and the
cop will not get a reading. Your radio, tape deck, and CD deck will not
work. It will be a blare of pure static. The speaker wire will pick up that
intense static.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:48:51 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding

Thanks Milton!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding


> > Okay everyone......Check this site and see if you agree with his take on
> > brake systems..
> > Thought you'd all be very interested in what he has to say.
> > http://www.stoptech.com/technical/
>
>
> There seems to be as many opinions on bleeding brakes as there are
> documented sources. Just use a brake bleeder. But that brings up other
> points.
>
> From the website under "Brake Fluid 1A":
>
> "Well yes, but beware of imitations - not all pressure bleeders are
created
> equal. The professional units (the type you can consider using) separate
the
> pressurized brake fluid from the pressure source (air) using a flexible
> rubber diaphragm. In this fashion, the pressurized air is kept from
forcing
> its way into the fluid. As we all know, air and fluid should be kept as
far
> apart as possible."
>
> That's a no brainer. That's the only way any pressurized brake bleeder
> should be built, and it must be built to operate at 60 psi.
>
> But there's more that really has my poor brain confused, for this is most
> definately ****not**** my experience:
>
> "Ah ha, you say - but what about the much touted Silicone based brake
> fluids? They are non hygroscopic and should take care of the reduced
boiling
> point and corrosion problems. True! That's the good news. Unfortunately
the
> silicone based fluids for reasons which I do not understand are
compressible
> themselves so they produce a soft pedal all by themselves. For the person
> who doesn't use his or her brakes hard and who doesn't care about precise
> modulation silicone fluids may well be the answer - but not for anyone
> reading this."
>
> Oh? That's news to me!
> And:
>
> "We won't even discuss DOT 5 fluids as they are completely unacceptable to
> the high-performance enthusiast, but we'll include them in the following
> table for completeness."
>
> Huh? What planet are these guys from?
> And:
>
> "So why is silicone-based DOT 5 fluid more compressible than other fluids?
>
> "On their own, silicone-based DOT 5 fluids are entirely different animals
> than DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. In addition to having characteristically
higher
> dry and wet boiling points, they also tend to have much, much lower
> viscosities. In other words, they flow more easily relative to
temperature.
>
> "One side effect of this chemistry is that there is more "room" for air to
> fit in-between the individual molecules of brake fluid than in DOT 3 or
DOT
> 4 fluids. Note that we are not talking about big bubbles of air here which
> are visible to the naked eye, but rather microscopic amounts of air which
> are finely dispersed (entrained) in the brake fluid matrix.
>
> "Now, all fluids have a certain amount of compressibility to start with,
but
> adding even the smallest amount of air into the solution can dramatically
> increase the amount of elasticity in the system. In the case of
> silicone-based fluids, air is quite happy to take up residence between the
> brake fluid molecules, and as a result the fluid compressibility goes
down.
> This is felt at your foot like stepping on a big spring. As you can
imagine,
> more air = more spring."
>
> Well, I guess I must have had a stroke. I must be living in a total
fantasy
> world. I'm completely delusional.
>
> I've been using Harley-Davidson DOT 5 Blue Silicone Brake Fluid in Thunder
> Lizard's *manual* Hurst-Airheart 4-wheel aluminum disc brakes for over 20
> years. That silicone brake fluid works perfectly, does ****not**** have a
> soft brake pedal, the brakes feel like they're power assisted, and she
stops
> on a dime and gives change. I researched silicone brake fluid for quite
some
> time before I switched to it. I wasn't about to put anything in her that
> might even remotely lead to a failure and damage to her. I have no clue
> where these guys are coming from. And yes, Thunder *does* get driven a
> little harder than you might think. Her brakes are perfectly balanced to
> just barely allow the tires to pull through on full brake apply at very
high
> speed. That's to purposely prevent brake lockup and tire slide. I can
> maintain complete directional control. That is a lot of clamping force,
> friction generation, and heat generation. I have *no* problem with
> Harley-Davidson's silicone brake fluid, and I think Thunder does meet the
> "high performance" definition.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:10:03 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

> If I'm not mistaken, that's really a capacitor.

Yep.

>It's used to suppress RFI to
> keep static out of the radio.<snip> I believe the only reason it's on an
HEI is RFI
> suppression to make the radio work.

Where would it be located? I wasn't aware there's a condenser on the HEI at
all.

> For the condenser inside a points distributor, I can't remember why it was
> used.

To suppress the arc that happens when the points open. Without the cap, most
of the energy stored in the coil would go into a spark at the points instead
of the plug. Points life would be very poor and so would ignition.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:16:32 -0500
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit - condensor ?????

Hey List,

        I read this and said HUHHHHH  ??????
I did not know that there was a condensor in a GM
HEI. I thought that the HEI replaced the points and condensor with
the module...

The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:22:57 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit - condensor ?????

Me either, Where is it located?





- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit - condensor ?????


> Hey List,
> 
>         I read this and said HUHHHHH  ??????
> I did not know that there was a condensor in a GM
> HEI. I thought that the HEI replaced the points and condensor with
> the module...
> 
> The General       patton442@verizon.net
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:15:24 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding

   here's  a question'what do you all think of dot3/4  blends says its compatable with either.
  ron 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:01 AM
  Subject: Re: Brake bleeding


  > > Okay everyone......Check this site and see if you agree with his take on
  > > brake systems..
  > > Thought you'd all be very interested in what he has to say.
  > > http://www.stoptech.com/technical/
  > 
  > 
  > There seems to be as many opinions on bleeding brakes as there are
  > documented sources. Just use a brake bleeder. But that brings up other
  > points.
  > 
  > From the website under "Brake Fluid 1A":
  > 
  > "Well yes, but beware of imitations - not all pressure bleeders are created
  > equal. The professional units (the type you can consider using) separate the
  > pressurized brake fluid from the pressure source (air) using a flexible
  > rubber diaphragm. In this fashion, the pressurized air is kept from forcing
  > its way into the fluid. As we all know, air and fluid should be kept as far
  > apart as possible."
  > 
  > That's a no brainer. That's the only way any pressurized brake bleeder
  > should be built, and it must be built to operate at 60 psi.
  > 
  > But there's more that really has my poor brain confused, for this is most
  > definately ****not**** my experience:
  > 
  > "Ah ha, you say - but what about the much touted Silicone based brake
  > fluids? They are non hygroscopic and should take care of the reduced boiling
  > point and corrosion problems. True! That's the good news. Unfortunately the
  > silicone based fluids for reasons which I do not understand are compressible
  > themselves so they produce a soft pedal all by themselves. For the person
  > who doesn't use his or her brakes hard and who doesn't care about precise
  > modulation silicone fluids may well be the answer - but not for anyone
  > reading this."
  > 
  > Oh? That's news to me!
  > And:
  > 
  > "We won't even discuss DOT 5 fluids as they are completely unacceptable to
  > the high-performance enthusiast, but we'll include them in the following
  > table for completeness."
  > 
  > Huh? What planet are these guys from?
  > And:
  > 
  > "So why is silicone-based DOT 5 fluid more compressible than other fluids?
  > 
  > "On their own, silicone-based DOT 5 fluids are entirely different animals
  > than DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. In addition to having characteristically higher
  > dry and wet boiling points, they also tend to have much, much lower
  > viscosities. In other words, they flow more easily relative to temperature.
  > 
  > "One side effect of this chemistry is that there is more "room" for air to
  > fit in-between the individual molecules of brake fluid than in DOT 3 or DOT
  > 4 fluids. Note that we are not talking about big bubbles of air here which
  > are visible to the naked eye, but rather microscopic amounts of air which
  > are finely dispersed (entrained) in the brake fluid matrix.
  > 
  > "Now, all fluids have a certain amount of compressibility to start with, but
  > adding even the smallest amount of air into the solution can dramatically
  > increase the amount of elasticity in the system. In the case of
  > silicone-based fluids, air is quite happy to take up residence between the
  > brake fluid molecules, and as a result the fluid compressibility goes down.
  > This is felt at your foot like stepping on a big spring. As you can imagine,
  > more air = more spring."
  > 
  > Well, I guess I must have had a stroke. I must be living in a total fantasy
  > world. I'm completely delusional.
  > 
  > I've been using Harley-Davidson DOT 5 Blue Silicone Brake Fluid in Thunder
  > Lizard's *manual* Hurst-Airheart 4-wheel aluminum disc brakes for over 20
  > years. That silicone brake fluid works perfectly, does ****not**** have a
  > soft brake pedal, the brakes feel like they're power assisted, and she stops
  > on a dime and gives change. I researched silicone brake fluid for quite some
  > time before I switched to it. I wasn't about to put anything in her that
  > might even remotely lead to a failure and damage to her. I have no clue
  > where these guys are coming from. And yes, Thunder *does* get driven a
  > little harder than you might think. Her brakes are perfectly balanced to
  > just barely allow the tires to pull through on full brake apply at very high
  > speed. That's to purposely prevent brake lockup and tire slide. I can
  > maintain complete directional control. That is a lot of clamping force,
  > friction generation, and heat generation. I have *no* problem with
  > Harley-Davidson's silicone brake fluid, and I think Thunder does meet the
  > "high performance" definition.
  > 
  > Milton Schick
  > 1964 442 Cutlass
  > imp@theriver.com
  > 
  > 
  > 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:55:58 -0600
From: James Aiello <Ilo@kwom.com>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #4733

Swanny,

I have not checked as of yet but I'm sure it is not! That's why its so 
cheap :)

James

> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:27:46 -0500
> From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: 1970 Cutlass Convertible parts for sale!!
>
> Is the rear end a posi?
>

>
>
>> List I'm parting a Cutlass conv. below is a list of parts that I have
>> pulled off
>> the car and I'm ready to sell. The prices are ballpark so make offers.
>> This is
>> the car I listed about 4 months ago and just got around to parting.
>> I'm in the Chicago western suburbs.
>>
>> Thanks
>> James
>>
>> 70 Auto console lid works with wood grain great shape. $140
>>
>> 70 Black Door Panels good shape carpet needs replaced. $50
>>
>> 70 Black Dash no cracks.  $75
>>
>> 70 Reg. auto shifter with neutral safety switch & cables. $75
>>
>> 70 Conv. black Rear seats back and bottom.  Needs recovered $75
>>
>> 70 Black Rear side panels with the wood grain. great shape.  $75
>>
>> 70 Blk Rear arm rests and piston cover panel.  good shape one tear but
>> hidden by seat $75
>>
>> 70 Top motor works $95
>>
>> 70 Top pistons worked when last used. $75 pair
>>
>> 70 Stainless trim for windshield top outside, no dings will polish up
>> great $100 (the one everyone wants)
>>
>> 70 Stainless trim for windshield side outside, no dings will polish up
>> great $50
>>
>> Black steel windshield top trim inside. $40
>>
>> Black soft windshield side trim inside good shape no cracks. $40
>>
>> Windshield rust free sheet metal frame, cut off $100 obo
>>
>> 70 Blk. Top complete w/glass rear window one 1/4:" tear, some padding
>> on the inside torn.
>> works great no rust, header bow perfect. Sell as a complete unit. $350
>> obo
>>
>> 70 Stainless 2 piece rear Top Well trim, no dings great shape. $150
>>
>> 70 Top switch works $50
>>
>> 70 AM/FM radio with amp.  unknown if works $150
>>
>> 70 Core support no rust great shape! $150
>>
>> 70 Rear Bumper some rust no holes great core $75
>>
>> 70 Cutlass tail lights no cracks with stainless trim. All 4 $75
>>
>> Sunvisor arms Conv. only part $45
>>
>> Conv. Frame one small spot has a hole ???
>>
>> 12 Bolt rear end, unkown ratio. $100
>>
>> Ask if you need anything else off this car before it goes to the
>> crusher.
>>
James Aiello
1905 Church Road
Aurora, IL 60505

708.250.8477 Cell
ilo@kwom.com

aiellographics.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:44:37 -0800
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit

I stand corrected, a couple of sharper eyes than me point out that it was
the capacitor for RFI reduction that I was referring to. Just the same it
can burn out causing an intermittent ground which seems to hurt correct
firing.

Interesting point about the magneto...

Sorry for creating confusion.

Cheers,
cf 



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Infinite Space
Systems, Inc.
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:46 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit


> the condenser does, indeed, go bad.


If I'm not mistaken, that's really a capacitor. It's used to suppress RFI to
keep static out of the radio. A points distributor car and engine had a
capacitor on the coil and on the external regulator to suppress RFI and help
remove static from the radio. On a HEI, the coil in the cap needs RFI
suppression for the radio. However, when the capacitor goes bad, it's a
direct short to ground, or it could also be an intermittent short to ground,
because it's hooked directly into a live electrical circuit. That stops an
ignition system real quick. I believe the only reason it's on an HEI is RFI
suppression to make the radio work.

For the condenser inside a points distributor, I can't remember why it was
used. I checked the '64 and '65 Olds Shop Manuals, just to see if they said
anything as to the real job of that condenser, but nothing. However, both
Shop Manuals were very emphatic on the use of capacitors to suppress RFI for
the radio and their locations.


> They used to come in any new points kit.


They sure did, all the time. With a uni-body points set, the condenser is
physically attached to the points, which leads me to believe the condenser
may stablize the current to the points in some way. Maybe, the condenser
prevented RFI from affecting electrical current quality at the points. RFI
(radio frequency interference) is generated by the spark plugs. The
electrical discharge across the spark gap actually produces a small amount
of X-rays (gamma radiation), which is a mirowave frequency and can be picked
up by a radio antenna as static.

I can also tell you one way to take out a police radar gun, and interfere
with airport and aircraft radar at the same time. Install a Vertex magneto
in your engine a run solid copper or stainless steel ignition wires, which
is all you can use with a magneto, anyway. The tremendous amplitude of RFI
generated will override the signal from and to a police radar gun, and the
cop will not get a reading. Your radio, tape deck, and CD deck will not
work. It will be a blare of pure static. The speaker wire will pick up that
intense static.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:39:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

> Where would it be located? I wasn't aware there's a condenser on the HEI
at
> all.


I don't know. I wasn't either, or didn't remember, until the guys brought
the problem up. But it did make sense, and that had to be the explanation.


> To suppress the arc that happens when the points open. Without the cap,
most
> of the energy stored in the coil would go into a spark at the points
instead
> of the plug. Points life would be very poor and so would ignition.


Yes! That's right. I had forgotten. The capacitor hanging on the external
regulator suppresses the arc during the opening of the contact points in the
external regulator. The capacitor on the coil backs up the one in the
distributor by trying to suppress the arc from that point in the circuit.
It's all aimed at suppressing RFI from the both points sets, while the
carbon ignition wires suppress the RFI from the plugs. I didn't take the RFI
suppression system far enough.

That also shows what will happen if a capacitor/condenser burns out, a
direct short to ground on the ignition circuit or a direct short to ground
on the electrical charging circuit. Either way, an electrical system goes
down.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:42:34 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit

> I stand corrected, a couple of sharper eyes than me point out that it was
> the capacitor for RFI reduction that I was referring to.

This would be the capacitor mounted to the fuse box? Or is it mounted somewhere else? Connected to the ignition +12V line? Or to the coil? I would like to archive this in my memory for future reference in case I have something like this happen to me somewhere down the road.

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:45:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding

>    here's  a question'what do you all think of dot3/4  blends says its
compatable with either.
>   ron


I'm not sure. My initial reaction is the compatibility characteristic allows
the accidental mixing of DOT 3 and DOT 4 without any serious adverse affects
on braking performance. Mixing the 2 on a regular basis, I can't answer
that.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:01:21 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding

My experience, is that the DOT 4 boils much after the current DOT3. I had
brake lines very close to the headers, and after switching , without my
knowledge, back to the 3 liquid, I had a boiling accident - not funny at
100+ mph, took me time to stop the car. I switched back to the DOT4 and had
no more problems, but for the safety I had my lines run FAR from the
exhaust...
MAtt
 Re: Brake bleeding


> >    here's  a question'what do you all think of dot3/4  blends says its
> compatable with either.
> >   ron
>
>
> I'm not sure. My initial reaction is the compatibility characteristic
allows
> the accidental mixing of DOT 3 and DOT 4 without any serious adverse
affects
> on braking performance. Mixing the 2 on a regular basis, I can't answer
> that.
>
> Milton Schick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:07:01 -0800
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit

The capacitor is inside the cap, under the rotor and contains the 3 prong
connector to the cap.

Cheers,
cf 



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of joevitek@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:43 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit


> I stand corrected, a couple of sharper eyes than me point out that it 
> was the capacitor for RFI reduction that I was referring to.

This would be the capacitor mounted to the fuse box? Or is it mounted
somewhere else? Connected to the ignition +12V line? Or to the coil? I would
like to archive this in my memory for future reference in case I have
something like this happen to me somewhere down the road.

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:18:57 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding

makes perfect sense.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Brake bleeding


> My experience, is that the DOT 4 boils much after the current DOT3. I had
> brake lines very close to the headers, and after switching , without my
> knowledge, back to the 3 liquid, I had a boiling accident - not funny at
> 100+ mph, took me time to stop the car. I switched back to the DOT4 and
had
> no more problems, but for the safety I had my lines run FAR from the
> exhaust...
> MAtt
>  Re: Brake bleeding
>
>
> > >    here's  a question'what do you all think of dot3/4  blends says its
> > compatable with either.
> > >   ron
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure. My initial reaction is the compatibility characteristic
> allows
> > the accidental mixing of DOT 3 and DOT 4 without any serious adverse
> affects
> > on braking performance. Mixing the 2 on a regular basis, I can't answer
> > that.
> >
> > Milton Schick
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:25:04 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit

> The capacitor is inside the cap, under the rotor and contains the 3 prong
> connector to the cap.

This strikes me as the same function as the capacitor (condenser) in the points applications. It is used as a "snubber" that helps limit the "flyback" voltage from the primary of the coil when the transistor (electronic switch) opens for sending spark to the spark plugs. This protects the transistor from 100 or more volts of flyback. This is not really for RFI as the primary side of the coil doesn't generate anywhere near the amount generated by the very high voltage secondary. The non-solid core spark plug wires are for the suppression of RFI.

A bad capacitor (semi-shorted) at this point in the ignition does have the effect of shorting the ignition to ground (as was said before).

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:20:58 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

Isn' t the 3 prong connector part of the coil? It has 2 power wires 1
battery and 1 tach and middle wire is a ground right?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit


> The capacitor is inside the cap, under the rotor and contains the 3 prong
> connector to the cap.
>
> Cheers,
> cf
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of joevitek@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:43 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: 455 HEI Tidbit
>
>
> > I stand corrected, a couple of sharper eyes than me point out that it
> > was the capacitor for RFI reduction that I was referring to.
>
> This would be the capacitor mounted to the fuse box? Or is it mounted
> somewhere else? Connected to the ignition +12V line? Or to the coil? I
would
> like to archive this in my memory for future reference in case I have
> something like this happen to me somewhere down the road.
>
> --
> joe vitek
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:31:12 -0600
From: "Brian Ammons" <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: more brake fun

I  bled the brakes on the '77 yesteday evening (I also bought a Mr. Heater
for the garage yesterday - "Ummm...Mr. Heater...") and am not sure what to
think because...

Bleeding was required b/c rear end & brakes was swapped, and adjustable
proportioning valve installed in-line between rear brakes and stock
proportioning valve.  Bleeding rears proceeds exactly as I would have
expected - used hand-operated vacuum pump to get it started, then confirmed
good bleed using two person manual bleed method.

However, while I'm here and the helper's here I'll bleed the fronts too,
right?  Put the vacuum pump's probe into the bleed screw on the passenger's
front, open bleed screw and...nothing.  No fluid comes out, no drop in
vacuum level on pump.  Several more iterations lead to same result.  Try
two-person method, only after several tries does the smallest trickle of
rusty brake fluid come out.  More iterations lead to slightly more fluid
coming out per purge, but NOTHING like what was coming out on the rear
brakes.  All this done without benefit of the engine running (no power
assist).  Move to driver's side, same results.

Looking at the color of the fluid in the front reservior vs the rear on the
MC, the front is obviously filled with very old, very discolored fluid, and
no I don't have a pressure bleeder.

What to make of this front brake behavior?  The front brake lines have never
been opened since I purchased the car (in Dallas, and drove it home to
Houston), plus a fair bit of city driving before I started the rear end
swap - the point being that the front brakes at least nominally work,
otherwise I would have hit something by now.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:51:35 -0700
From: "Karl Sup" <droldslives@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wanted: 62 Starfire/88 Rear Bumper

I'm looking for a clean 1962 88 or Starfire rear bumper, no rust through. If 
anyone has one or a lead to one, let me know.

Thanks!!
Karl Sup
Mesa, AZ

_________________________________________________________________
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.  
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:27 -0500 
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

Please excuse my naivety, but the condenser/capacitor everyone's talking
about is different from the ignition module in an HEI system, yes?

In a points system, is the thing were talking about illustrated in this
picture (follow the link below) by the cylindrical doodad on the left, with
the purple wire protruding from it?

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JET_AV8R/Vision/Ignition/BreakerMov
ing.gif

So, does it look the same in an HEI setup?  I think I'm wicked confused! :)

This whole thread has been very valuable and interesting, so thanks for
bringing it up Chris!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:18:20 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

> Please excuse my naivety, but the condenser/capacitor everyone's talking
> about is different from the ignition module in an HEI system, yes?

Yes.

> In a points system, is the thing were talking about illustrated in this
> picture (follow the link below) by the cylindrical doodad on the left, with
> the purple wire protruding from it?

Yep.

> So, does it look the same in an HEI setup?  I think I'm wicked confused! :)

I think it is basically the same, but the size may be smaller (not sure). Judging from your use of the word "wicked", I assume you are in the New England area?

:)

Question, when you buy a new "ignition module" for an HEI, does the capacitor come with it as an assembly?

Been a long time for me...

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:28:59 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

I have never seen any other components on an HEI except, module with 2- 7mm
screws to hold it to the dist., rotor, cap,contact going through the cap to
the rotor, under the coil and rubber grommet, and coil with 3 wires, one
ground (center wire) 2 wires for the +12 volt to supply spark, and 1 wire to
hook up a tach to. I'm from New England and I'm wicked confused. I am also
referring to a non ECM motor.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <joevitek@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit


> > Please excuse my naivety, but the condenser/capacitor everyone's talking
> > about is different from the ignition module in an HEI system, yes?
>
> Yes.
>
> > In a points system, is the thing were talking about illustrated in this
> > picture (follow the link below) by the cylindrical doodad on the left,
with
> > the purple wire protruding from it?
>
> Yep.
>
> > So, does it look the same in an HEI setup?  I think I'm wicked confused!
:)
>
> I think it is basically the same, but the size may be smaller (not sure).
Judging from your use of the word "wicked", I assume you are in the New
England area?
>
> :)
>
> Question, when you buy a new "ignition module" for an HEI, does the
capacitor come with it as an assembly?
>
> Been a long time for me...
>
> --
> joe vitek
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:37:35 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

> I have never seen any other components on an HEI except, module with 2- 7mm
> screws to hold it to the dist., rotor, cap,contact going through the cap to
> the rotor, under the coil and rubber grommet, and coil with 3 wires, one
> ground (center wire) 2 wires for the +12 volt to supply spark, and 1 wire to
> hook up a tach to. I'm from New England and I'm wicked confused. I am also
> referring to a non ECM motor.

I was pretty sure there was a condenser (capacitor) in the HEI application for the aforementioned reasons. Now I am wicked confused.

:)

- --
joe vitek (on the banks of the Merrimack River, Concord, New Hampshire)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:15:10 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

I have a spare dist in my garage and looked at it before i first replied and
what I think we are talking about only ended around '70-'73. There is a wire
that  runs in with wiring harness and it looks like a capacitor. its a black
wire that goes to a ground on the firewall. All my cars are '78. My truck
cab is an '87  and '87 wiring harness, but '78 motor ann chassis but before
I switched cabs that wire was there and i just taped it off.

Wicked in NE.
Freezin' with no heat in garage!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <joevitek@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit


> > I have never seen any other components on an HEI except, module with 2-
7mm
> > screws to hold it to the dist., rotor, cap,contact going through the cap
to
> > the rotor, under the coil and rubber grommet, and coil with 3 wires, one
> > ground (center wire) 2 wires for the +12 volt to supply spark, and 1
wire to
> > hook up a tach to. I'm from New England and I'm wicked confused. I am
also
> > referring to a non ECM motor.
>
> I was pretty sure there was a condenser (capacitor) in the HEI application
for the aforementioned reasons. Now I am wicked confused.
>
> :)
>
> --
> joe vitek (on the banks of the Merrimack River, Concord, New Hampshire)
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:12:03 -0500 
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: Re: 455 HEI Tidbit

Joe said:
>Judging from your use of the word "wicked", I assume you are in the New
England area?

You betcha.  Born and raised in Fitchburg, MA...now residing on the lovely
South Shore...Brockton, City of Champions.
Stepmom's folks are from Berlin, NH - life free or die! :)

Swanny said:
>what I think we are talking about only ended around '70-'73.

Any confirmation on this?
The wickedness of my confusion (and outside temperature) have yet to cease.

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:22:56 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: UPDATE: looking for water pump 400269

- --0-478269551-1073503376=:95033
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

First thanks for all the suggestions from everyone.  However, I'm looking for an original casting number water pump.  While NAPA _may_ have it, the odds of getting one with the casting number I need are probably worse than the odds of me getting struck by lightning.  And while I appreciate the offer for an off brand like Airtex or whatever, I already have access to a "garage account" so I get parts at cost, so it makes no sense to pay for shipping.  In fact, I've already used this garage account to get a water pump for my F-85 (I believe it was an Airtex brand).  It was like $23 or some ridiculous number and the core charge was like $2.30, so I just ate that and kept my core.
 
I've been contacted by a few people who have the water pump I'm searching for so we'll see what develops.
 
Chris

chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com> wrote:
And now onto Oldsmobiles. I'm looking for the
aforementioned water pump. casting number 400269. 
either a rebuildable core or a working used unit. I
have many parts to trade or will buy outright. Email
directly at grp442@yahoo.com

Thanks,
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
1969 W-31 (heads getting redone now, short block is
next)
1970 F-85
1969 442 parts car
1970 F-85 parts car
and a bunch of parts for sale

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/


- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
- --0-478269551-1073503376=:95033
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>First thanks for all the suggestions from everyone.&nbsp; However, I'm looking for an original casting number water pump.&nbsp; While NAPA _may_ have it, the odds of getting one with the casting number I need are probably worse than the odds of me getting struck by lightning.&nbsp; And while I appreciate the offer for an off brand like Airtex&nbsp;or whatever, I already have access to a "garage account" so I get parts at cost, so it makes no sense to pay for shipping.&nbsp; In fact, I've already used this garage account to get a water pump for my F-85 (I believe it was an Airtex brand).&nbsp; It was like $23 or some ridiculous number and the core charge was like $2.30, so I just ate that and kept my core.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I've been contacted by a few people who have the water pump I'm searching for so we'll see what develops.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR><B><I>chris smetana &lt;grp442@yahoo.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">And now onto Oldsmobiles. I'm looking for the<BR>aforementioned water pump. casting number 400269. <BR>either a rebuildable core or a working used unit. I<BR>have many parts to trade or will buy outright. Email<BR>directly at grp442@yahoo.com<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Chris<BR>grp442@yahoo.com<BR>1969 W-31 (heads getting redone now, short block is<BR>next)<BR>1970 F-85<BR>1969 442 parts car<BR>1970 F-85 parts car<BR>and a bunch of parts for sale<BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21260/*http://photos.yahoo.com">New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing</a>
- --0-478269551-1073503376=:95033--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4734
*********************************
