
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, February 24 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4790



442 is painted - Pictures?????
Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE:  REALLY bad parts car...
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: SERIOUS vibration
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE: engine flush
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE: engine flush
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: SERIOUS vibration
Good Distributor Shop
RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: REALLY bad parts car...
Re: Of Airbags and Crush Zones
Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
will my project car be illegal?
Re: REALLY bad parts car...
Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
Re: will my project car be illegal?
QQ tags?  was Re: will my project car be illegal?
Re: will my project car be illegal?
Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)
Re: will my project car be illegal?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:48:32 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: 442 is painted - Pictures?????

Hey Joe,

You can't post this with out providing some pictures......We all LOVE
need paint!!!!

Paul Tumolo
1970 442
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:08:45 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

My partially dissembled '66 425 is giving me fits.  It had been stored
for 15 years indoors. I'm well into the dissembly.  The short block is
on the engine stand. However the points distributor (rusted to bits,
essentially junk and I was going to huck it into the garbage upon
removal) refused to budge when I tried to turn/remove it: I mean this
thing is STUCK.  I knew it was going to be a bear, so I soaked the whole
mess in penetrant for a week.  I tried turning it one way then the
other. Nada.  Added more muscle. Nothing.  One more time - BANG.  The
aluminum housing cracked off about an inch and a half above the base?!?!
MAN. Chock one up for gorilla mechanics, and this gorilla is endowed
with the touch of a blacksmith.

The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
thing out.  I can't seem to get the cam out either (travels about an
inch forward), I guess thats due to the distributor.

Any advice is welcome, I want to start building this thing for spring. 

Ian   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:25:29 -0600
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: RE:  REALLY bad parts car...

Chris,

>Holey Moley
>I thought my parts car [per 442.com] was the biggest POS that was ever 
>bought

>look at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6783&item=2461520431

>I am sorry, I just do not see $400 worth of anything there. At least my POS 
>had axles, engine parts, kickdown switch, switch pitch trans, etc. And twice 
>as mauch rusty steel. And it was free plus the towing costs.
>- -----------------------
>Chris Witt

I dunno Chris, this does have the very rare SS option! ;)


Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode)
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine)
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:33:03 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

>The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
>meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
>cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
>thing out.

Um... heat? I had numerous fights with the old BMW when trying to extract 
its broken front strut, but when I finally broke down and spent $12 at 
Wal-Mart on a basic BernzOmatic propane torch, I was amazed at how fast the 
previously-immovable objects would loosen up.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. 
locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:32:19 EST
From: Tremendous442@aol.com
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

- -------------------------------1077568338
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

you would think he would notice the wandering all over the road if it had bad 
tie rods, or centrer link or even a real bad idler arm, not to mention uneven 
tire wear. but since everything on his car is new, I am thinking it has to be 
the rotors. I don't ever remember a defective tie rod, but have seen scores 
of defective rotors.

- -------------------------------1077568338
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">you would think he would notice the wandering all over the road if it had=
 bad tie rods, or centrer link or even a real bad idler arm, not to mention=20=
uneven tire wear. but since everything on his car is new, I am thinking it h=
as to be the rotors. I don't ever remember a defective tie rod, but have see=
n scores of defective rotors.</BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1077568338--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:45:09 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

Just a thought, you probably should  have tried heat in the beginning. I
would still try heat and use WD-40 inbetween heat and trying to get the rest
out. Time and patience I guess.
Another thought is to pull the motor and send it to the machine shop for a
complete rebuild.
Good Luck!
Pat.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)


>
> My partially dissembled '66 425 is giving me fits.  It had been stored
> for 15 years indoors. I'm well into the dissembly.  The short block is
> on the engine stand. However the points distributor (rusted to bits,
> essentially junk and I was going to huck it into the garbage upon
> removal) refused to budge when I tried to turn/remove it: I mean this
> thing is STUCK.  I knew it was going to be a bear, so I soaked the whole
> mess in penetrant for a week.  I tried turning it one way then the
> other. Nada.  Added more muscle. Nothing.  One more time - BANG.  The
> aluminum housing cracked off about an inch and a half above the base?!?!
> MAN. Chock one up for gorilla mechanics, and this gorilla is endowed
> with the touch of a blacksmith.
>
> The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
> meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
> cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
> thing out.  I can't seem to get the cam out either (travels about an
> inch forward), I guess thats due to the distributor.
>
> Any advice is welcome, I want to start building this thing for spring.
>
> Ian
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:48:56 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: engine flush

I would not recommend using an engine flush. If you have a lot of gink
in the engine from poor maintenance, the flush can loosen up large
chunks that can clog up lifters and oil passages. I picked up a junk 403
engine to get the valve covers and fasteners from. When I took off the
valve covers, they had so much hard gunk that the baffles were totally
plugged. The lifter valley was all gunked up as well. Flushing this
motor (if it ran) would have been a disaster!

I would use diesel oil for the changes. This will clean it up slowly
over time. It won't dislodge all the gunk at once.

Just my .02

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:06:27 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

>The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
>meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
>cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
>thing out.

Book of Andy:
Um... heat? I had numerous fights with the old BMW when trying to
extract 
its broken front strut, but when I finally broke down and spent $12 at 
Wal-Mart on a basic BernzOmatic propane torch, I was amazed at how fast
the 
previously-immovable objects would loosen up. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Andy,

Thank you for the reply.  It's a good plan.  I used the same thing on it
(no MAPP - not yet anyway - might be TOO hot) - and I heated the
surrounding block.  Trouble is, I can't get any torque on it now as all
I'm left with is a round stub.  Maybe I'll buy a huge pair of locking
pliers and try again.  Or drill it out. ===8^0

Anyone try to heat around alu with a cheapo MAPP torch?  I would guess
it would melt the lodged dist stub muy pronto/tres vite/brzo.

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:10:23 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

Just a thought, you probably should  have tried heat in the beginning. I
would still try heat and use WD-40 inbetween heat and trying to get the
rest
out. Time and patience I guess.
Another thought is to pull the motor 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pat,

Engine's out. Thinking about more heat, better purchase on what's left
of the dist. 

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:19:44 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: engine flush

>If you have a lot of gunk in the engine from poor maintenance,
>the flush can loosen up large chunks that can clog up lifters
>and oil passages. I picked up a junk 403 engine to get the
>valve covers and fasteners from. When I took off the valve
>covers, they had so much hard gunk that the baffles were
>totally plugged. The lifter valley was all gunked up as well.
>Flushing this motor (if it ran) would have been a disaster!

You ain't kidding. I remember opening up a donated Chevy Citation which did 
still run, though badly, and found solid gunk of some sort under the rocker 
cover that I could pull off with my bare hands from around the bases of the 
rocker towers and such. I finally dug down enough (just bare hands pulling 
this goop out) to find the oil return passages going down to the crankcase. 
Again, they were plugged solid, and I was using my little finger to either 
dig the goop out or press it down through the holes to the crankcase to get 
them open again so they would drain at _all_.

So after I pulled out the worst of it and poked open whatever drain passages 
I could find, I buttoned it all up again, put in fresh oil and filter, 
road-tested it overnight (maybe 25 miles max), and the oil was black the 
_next_day_. Didn't wait more than maybe 150 miles to change that out, but 
like I said, the engine could only get better, and it did.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. 
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:30:38 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

Anyone try to heat around alu with a cheapo MAPP torch?  I would guess
> it would melt the lodged dist stub muy pronto/tres vite/brzo.
>
I use acetyline with a fine tip, always worked for me.
Patience is a must.
A small ball peen to tap around the shaft and always spray the WD-40, it
doesn't burn black smoke like most penetrants



- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)


>
> >The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
> >meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
> >cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
> >thing out.
>
> Book of Andy:
> Um... heat? I had numerous fights with the old BMW when trying to
> extract
> its broken front strut, but when I finally broke down and spent $12 at
> Wal-Mart on a basic BernzOmatic propane torch, I was amazed at how fast
> the
> previously-immovable objects would loosen up.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Andy,
>
> Thank you for the reply.  It's a good plan.  I used the same thing on it
> (no MAPP - not yet anyway - might be TOO hot) - and I heated the
> surrounding block.  Trouble is, I can't get any torque on it now as all
> I'm left with is a round stub.  Maybe I'll buy a huge pair of locking
> pliers and try again.  Or drill it out. ===8^0
>
> Anyone try to heat around alu with a cheapo MAPP torch?  I would guess
> it would melt the lodged dist stub muy pronto/tres vite/brzo.
>
> Ian
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:33:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

Ian,

This problem happens to Olds engines all the time. You've just got a really
bad one. The cause is aluminum to cast iron corrosion in the distributor
housing bore and quite possibly the oil pump drive shaft stuck in both the
drive socket in the oil pump and the distributor gear. A very beefy 0-ring
for the distributor base seal doesn't help, either. The stock oil pump drive
shaft is exactly why one must use a very "hardened" oil pump drive shaft
from Milodon. The hex edges won't round and stick in the drive sockets.

Since you have the engine on the engine stand, flip it over and pull the oil
pan. Then remove the oil pump. Pry the pump loose from the drive shaft, if
necessary. Then, using the drive shaft as a punch, drive the broken
distributor out of the block.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)


>
> My partially dissembled '66 425 is giving me fits.  It had been stored
> for 15 years indoors. I'm well into the dissembly.  The short block is
> on the engine stand. However the points distributor (rusted to bits,
> essentially junk and I was going to huck it into the garbage upon
> removal) refused to budge when I tried to turn/remove it: I mean this
> thing is STUCK.  I knew it was going to be a bear, so I soaked the whole
> mess in penetrant for a week.  I tried turning it one way then the
> other. Nada.  Added more muscle. Nothing.  One more time - BANG.  The
> aluminum housing cracked off about an inch and a half above the base?!?!
> MAN. Chock one up for gorilla mechanics, and this gorilla is endowed
> with the touch of a blacksmith.
>
> The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
> meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
> cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
> thing out.  I can't seem to get the cam out either (travels about an
> inch forward), I guess thats due to the distributor.
>
> Any advice is welcome, I want to start building this thing for spring.
>
> Ian
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:04:07 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

> The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
> meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
> cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get
this
> thing out.  I can't seem to get the cam out either (travels about an
> inch forward), I guess thats due to the distributor.


Quoted from the book of Milton:
This problem happens to Olds engines all the time. You've just got a
really
bad one. The cause is aluminum to cast iron corrosion in the distributor
housing bore and quite possibly the oil pump drive shaft stuck in both
the
drive socket in the oil pump and the distributor gear. A very beefy
0-ring
for the distributor base seal doesn't help, either. The stock oil pump
drive
shaft is exactly why one must use a very "hardened" oil pump drive shaft
from Milodon. The hex edges won't round and stick in the drive sockets.

Since you have the engine on the engine stand, flip it over and pull the
oil
pan. Then remove the oil pump. Pry the pump loose from the drive shaft,
if
necessary. Then, using the drive shaft as a punch, drive the broken
distributor out of the block.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++

Alright.  This is cool, thank you MILTON.  (I'm now wavering on the 21"
channel lock purchase, despite my simian inclinations). 

Ian
Winterpeg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:50:04 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

At 04:30 PM 2/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone try to heat around alu with a cheapo MAPP torch?  I would guess
>> it would melt the lodged dist stub muy pronto/tres vite/brzo.
>>
>I use acetyline with a fine tip, always worked for me.
>Patience is a must.
>A small ball peen to tap around the shaft and always spray the WD-40, it
>doesn't burn black smoke like most penetrants

PB Blaster with torch heat seems to work much better than WD40 for freeing
rusted steel-to-steel junctions. Dunno about aluminum, though.

But WD40 seems to me to work better than PB Blaster for stuff you can't heat.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:48:32 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

At 02:33 PM 2/23/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>... using the drive shaft as a punch, drive the broken distributor 
>out of the block.

I'd be gentle and use a 2x4, and while someone is up top trying to rotate
it with a wrench on the stub. No need to take a chance on cracking the
block, wherever it's glued together; they aren't casting 425s any longer,
ya know  ;o(((((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:44:13 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

At 03:06 PM 2/23/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Trouble is, I can't get any torque on it now as all I'm left with 
>is a round stub.  Maybe I'll buy a huge pair of locking pliers and 
>try again.  Or drill it out. ===8^0

Large locking pliers or pipe wrench.

Since the dist's ruined... if you can get a clear shot at the gear from the
bottom of the engine, maybe try pounding it upward while Buddy tries
rotating the wrench. Very unfortunately, there's no way to get the shaft
out through the bottom, even if you hacksaw off the upper part with the
weights and stuff. Otherwise, if you could get the shaft outta the way, you
could then cut a slit through the side of the aluminum housing in the block
then by banging on the side of the housing, probably loosen it enough to
rotate it out.

This story is making me strongly consider very-lightly sanding down my
distributor housing so it's not as tight. And, for that matter, the
balancer hub. Poncho balancers simply slide on the crank snot and I've
never heard of one coming loose; can't see why an Olds balancer/crank snot
would be any different, so why are they so tight to begin with??

The only other alternative is to loosen them up from time to time to keep
varnish and stuff from glueing them together.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:36:22 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

At 03:32 PM 2/23/2004 EST, you wrote:
>.... have seen scores of defective rotors.

Yeah, it's either a rotor, bent wheel (look to make sure the lug nut holes
aren't reamed out), or possibly a cracked or rotted frame up front.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:04:20 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Good Distributor Shop

I found this shop in Hemmings Muscle Machines magazine, which is the
BEST car magazine on the market by far. I had my distributor recurved to
match my engine combination. These guys are great - fast service, great
communication, and excellent prices. If you need a distributor redone,
go here:

Ole's Carb and Electric
120 El Camino Real   
San Bruno Ca 94066
ph # 650 589 7377

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:30:52 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Steve Harrison
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 4:44 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: RE: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

At 03:06 PM 2/23/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Trouble is, I can't get any torque on it now as all I'm left with 
>is a round stub.  Maybe I'll buy a huge pair of locking pliers and 
>try again.  Or drill it out. ===8^0


Book of SteveH:

Large locking pliers or pipe wrench.

Since the dist's ruined... if you can get a clear shot at the gear from
the
bottom of the engine, maybe try pounding it upward while Buddy tries
rotating the wrench. Very unfortunately, there's no way to get the shaft
out through the bottom, even if you hacksaw off the upper part with the
weights and stuff. Otherwise, if you could get the shaft outta the way,
you
could then cut a slit through the side of the aluminum housing in the
block
then by banging on the side of the housing, probably loosen it enough to
rotate it out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks Steve, all good stuff.
Ian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:20:21 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REALLY bad parts car...

  that one is dead
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "jbschuren" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:11 AM
  Subject: Re: REALLY bad parts car...


  > some cars must be left to die.....
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
  > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:29 PM
  > Subject: REALLY bad parts car...
  > 
  > 
  > > Holey Moley
  > > I thought my parts car [per 442.com] was the biggest POS that was ever
  > > bought
  > >
  > > look at this:
  > >
  > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6783&item=2461520431
  > >
  > > I am sorry, I just do not see $400 worth of anything there. At least my
  > POS
  > > had axles, engine parts, kickdown switch, switch pitch trans, etc. And
  > twice
  > > as mauch rusty steel. And it was free plus the towing costs.
  > > -----------------------
  > > Chris Witt
  > > 1303 W. Miller Rd.
  > > Lansing MI 48911
  > >
  > > RocketScience442@hotmail.com
  > >
  > > Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
  > > Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
  > >
  > > _________________________________________________________________
  > > Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
  > > http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
  > >
  > 
  > 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:19:50 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Of Airbags and Crush Zones

  bmw simply said the impact of the  car was enough to trigger the sensor to deploy the left air
bag. dot  was contacted but claims that it is not there fault. biggest problem is no one has had a
complaint about this perticular pot hole.
   bmw is looking into the incident, but also claims its not there fault.
  have not hear much more for now.
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:32 AM
  Subject: Re: Of Airbags and Crush Zones


  > >tell that to the owner of the 2002 bmw that had his side
  > >air bag deployed when he hit a pot hole.
  >
  > He hit a pothole and a side airbag deployed??? I assume he filed a DOT
  > report on that malfunction, and that BMW is investigating it as well. After
  > all, the car was still under warranty, so BMW would be on the hook for this
  > reimbursement, not just his insurance company, as it would be an obvious
  > equipment malfunction if that's how it happened. Surely there's more to this
  > story than what you are telling us here.
  >
  > -- Andy (who has a buyer picking up our '83 BMW 528e tonight; hooray! :-)
  >
  > _________________________________________________________________
  > Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide.
  > http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx
  >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:27:34 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

I may have had a sheltered life.  First I ever saw of liter sizes in car 
engines was the 6.6 in the Trans Am.   I had a continuous habit of 
translating it into my terms (cubic inches).  And, as a kid growing up in 
Texas, I knew for a fact that a barrel of oil was 42 gallons :)

M

At 08:07 PM 2/22/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>Hot-rodders got their introduction when the '64 Goat badge bragged 6.5
>Liter for the 389  ;o\  Clearly, Poncho was trying to tie the GTO name into
>the existing "high-faluting" Ferrari GTO of the time. That '66 Galaxie was
>perhaps the next American "muscle-car" to state its displacement on
>exterior badging in liters. From there, the rest of the pack followed.
>
>And besides, any high school kid who took chemistry learned to use liters
>and cc's, although there was no attempt to compare those to the
>tablespoons, pints, quarts and gallons used at home (did Texas kids of the
>period speak in terms of 55-gallon barrels of oil?  :o)))
>
>SteveH

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:28:23 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

  remove oil pump  and drive ise a long thin punch but a solid  name brand get a good size hammer
and let the fun begin.
  method 2  remove oil pump and drive  remove whats left of the shaft if still in there take chisle
and crack  rest od housing in 4 peaces and and remove
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:08 PM
  Subject: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)


  >
  > My partially dissembled '66 425 is giving me fits.  It had been stored
  > for 15 years indoors. I'm well into the dissembly.  The short block is
  > on the engine stand. However the points distributor (rusted to bits,
  > essentially junk and I was going to huck it into the garbage upon
  > removal) refused to budge when I tried to turn/remove it: I mean this
  > thing is STUCK.  I knew it was going to be a bear, so I soaked the whole
  > mess in penetrant for a week.  I tried turning it one way then the
  > other. Nada.  Added more muscle. Nothing.  One more time - BANG.  The
  > aluminum housing cracked off about an inch and a half above the base?!?!
  > MAN. Chock one up for gorilla mechanics, and this gorilla is endowed
  > with the touch of a blacksmith.
  >
  > The cam spins nicely on its bearings, and I can see the dist gear
  > meshing and turning with the cam gear with no effort. Try as I might I
  > cannot move that distributor stub.  How the H&LL I am going to get this
  > thing out.  I can't seem to get the cam out either (travels about an
  > inch forward), I guess thats due to the distributor.
  >
  > Any advice is welcome, I want to start building this thing for spring.
  >
  > Ian
  >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:58:12 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: will my project car be illegal?

All,

	This is probably New Jersey specific, but I was wondering.

	I am going to be putting a 1972 455 into my 1979 Cutlass Calais.  By the
time this is done, the car will be registered with Historic plates (ie: QQ
plates).

	Now, I know that my car will be exempt from inspection with the QQ plates,
and the vehicle is thus limited-use with those plates.  I had thus assumed
that it would not be a problem to put the older motor in.

	The 1972 engine does not have an EGR valve, and I had not originally
planned on putting catalytic converters on it.

	The latter wouldn't bother me much.  If I have to, I'll put catalysts on
it.  But is simply having the older engine in there illegal?  Would having
no EGR be illegal?

	I talked to someone today, and he said he'd find out what he could for me.
 He did say he wasn't sure, but thought that technically, if a police
officer decided to do an "on-the-spot" inspection, I could possibly be
cited for tampering violations.  And, he said, those fines are unpleasantly
high.


	Anyone know for sure?


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:03:49 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: REALLY bad parts car...

At 07:20 PM 2/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>  that one is dead
>  ron

It looks like someone even took its organ-donor pledge card  ;o(((((((((

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:05:48 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

At 05:27 PM 2/23/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>as a kid growing up in Texas, I knew for a fact that a barrel 
>of oil was 42 gallons :)

DANG.... you mean that somewhere in the world, someone, somewhere, has a
BIGGER barrel of oil than Texans do????  ===================8-O

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:46:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: will my project car be illegal?

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, King V wrote:

> 	This is probably New Jersey specific, but I was wondering.
>
> 	I am going to be putting a 1972 455 into my 1979 Cutlass Calais.  By the
> time this is done, the car will be registered with Historic plates (ie: QQ
> plates).
>
> 	Now, I know that my car will be exempt from inspection with the QQ plates,
> and the vehicle is thus limited-use with those plates.  I had thus assumed
> that it would not be a problem to put the older motor in.
>
> 	The 1972 engine does not have an EGR valve, and I had not originally
> planned on putting catalytic converters on it.
>
> 	The latter wouldn't bother me much.  If I have to, I'll put catalysts on
> it.  But is simply having the older engine in there illegal?  Would having
> no EGR be illegal?
>
> 	I talked to someone today, and he said he'd find out what he could for me.
>  He did say he wasn't sure, but thought that technically, if a police
> officer decided to do an "on-the-spot" inspection, I could possibly be
> cited for tampering violations.  And, he said, those fines are unpleasantly
> high.

IANAL, but I've never heard of a specific statute for tampering with the
emissions equipment in NJ.  I think all the NJ statutes are on the web
now... but I can't remember where.  I actually read through the statutes a
long time ago... they're quite interesting.  If you don't want to break
the motor vehicle law, don't leave your yard.  Everything you do is
illegal for some reason...

I also doubt any cop would do an "on-the-spot" inspection for something
that specific.  So cops can't tell an Oldsmobile from a Buick, so which
are going to know _exactly_ what year cars had EGRs.  The only things cops
"inspect" are things visible while you are driving... lights,
droopy exhaust, etc.

On the other hand, NJ is talking of putting up photo sniffers to look for
excessive polluters.  Also, there are roving inspection stations... but
I'd think the Historic plates would make them look elsewhere.

Of course, I would just run it through a private garage... they miss all
sorts of things.  Like 403's.

I realize the QQ tags are limited use, but from the people I talk to,
there is little enforcement.  Any thoughts on that?

Also, I haven't gotten a straight answer from MVS on this... do you need
collector's insurance on your car to get Historic plates?

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:28:53 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: QQ tags?  was Re: will my project car be illegal?

At 10:46 PM 02/23/2004 -0500, Stephen wrote:
>
>I also doubt any cop would do an "on-the-spot" inspection for something
>that specific.  So cops can't tell an Oldsmobile from a Buick, so which
>are going to know _exactly_ what year cars had EGRs.  The only things cops
>"inspect" are things visible while you are driving... lights,
>droopy exhaust, etc.

Or they'll run the plates on really UGLY cars . . . and oops, my
registration was 2 weeks expired!  Damn... (that happened about 2 years ago).

>
>On the other hand, NJ is talking of putting up photo sniffers to look for
>excessive polluters.  Also, there are roving inspection stations... but
>I'd think the Historic plates would make them look elsewhere.
>

Actually, I have no fear of this, as the 1972 Olds 98 which will be
donating the motor has, despite the bad carburetor, passed emissions easily
within 1975-1980 requirements.

But I'm just concerned for the potential "Hah, you're busted, that's
$10,000 per violation" scenario.  Given the clean condition and limited use
the car will see, I figure it's unlikely at best, but still unnerves me.


>Of course, I would just run it through a private garage... they miss all
>sorts of things.  Like 403's.
>
>I realize the QQ tags are limited use, but from the people I talk to,
>there is little enforcement.  Any thoughts on that?

Not sure about it.  In my friend's 1970 Challenger convertible, we were at
a crawl on a highway headed to the shore.  Cop was surveying things, and
then walked right up to us . . needless to say, this made us a bit nervous,
and we were wondering exactly what you are.

Then he said, "Nice car.  What year?"

On the way home, we broke down, and while pushing another officer stopped.
He never even asked for paperwork, just sort of asked us what was going on,
and suggested that we push the car only to a side area a few feet up rather
than the 1/2 mile or so we were planning to a friend's house.

>
>Also, I haven't gotten a straight answer from MVS on this... do you need
>collector's insurance on your car to get Historic plates?

I don't recall that being on the form..... I only did this a year or so ago
for my 1972 98 and don't think it was a requirement.  But I already had
collector's insurance.  I think I have another QQ-plate form somewhere
downstairs though (gotta register the 1979 as a QQ).... if I find it, I'll
see if there's any notation on it about that.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:34:29 -0500
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: will my project car be illegal?

> This is probably New Jersey specific,
> 1972 455 into my 1979 Cutlass Calais.

Not NJ specific, it's actually a Federal law. You can only replace an engine
with an engine of the same year or newer. So who pays attention to this law?
I haven't, but until recently, I didn't have emission testing to worry about
either.
Now we only have a visual inspection to make sure all emissions items are
present. Not necessarily working, just present. ie. I can just hang a belt
on the smog pump and my neighbor has to pass it. Doesn't matter that the
belt isn't hooked up, just as long as it's hanging from the pulley of the
smog pump. Stupid, but true. I saw it right it the new inspection manual for
Lancaster County, PA. My neighbor showed me incase I wanted to get the '84
Cutlass Cruiser (no smog pump belt) inspected again this year....junkyard
bound in May.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:44:19 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck distributor (really X%#$ stuck!)

I hate to argue, but...


> Since the dist's ruined... if you can get a clear shot at the gear from
the
> bottom of the engine, maybe try pounding it upward while


That's why the oil pump drive shaft works as a great distributor removing
punch.


> This story is making me strongly consider very-lightly sanding down my
> distributor housing so it's not as tight.


That could alter the radius clearance relationship between the distributor
gear and the cam gear. Be very careful doing that.


> And, for that matter, the
> balancer hub. Poncho balancers simply slide on the crank snot and I've
> never heard of one coming loose; can't see why an Olds balancer/crank snot
> would be any different, so why are they so tight to begin with??


Ahhhhh, recently the 425 harmonic balancer from the engine I just stripped
came right off in my hands. The 330 crank hubs I've been pulling in the
you-pull-it yard looking for good 330 forged cranks have also been coming
right off in my hands.

I have noticed an issue with the square crank key being rough and jamming an
Olds balancer. That could be most of the problem.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:09:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: will my project car be illegal?

Joe,

Why not fight fire with fire? Screw the Gestapo.


> Now, I know that my car will be exempt from inspection with the QQ plates,


Then you're one step ahead of them. You're home free.


> The 1972 engine does not have an EGR valve,


Put a fake EGR valve on, one that doesn't work and is blocked off
underneath. No one will ever know but you. Remember, no one can take a
wrench to your engine to look, not without a search warrant from a judge. No
judge in his right mind would even bother.


> and I had not originally
> planned on putting catalytic converters on it.


Put aftermarket dual cats on, that have had their guts removed. No one will
ever know.


> But is simply having the older engine in there illegal?


Take your 455 and grind off every single indentifying stamped number and
casting number on the entire engine. Then let someone try and indentify it.
My 403 engine core from the '77 Toronado has had the block and heads prepped
this way, while I was deburring everything. If they can't tell what the
engine is, they'll just have to take your word for it.


>  He did say he wasn't sure, but thought that technically, if a police
> officer decided to do an "on-the-spot" inspection, I could possibly be
> cited for tampering violations.


Fine, let the cop look away. He won't be able to fine anything, unless he
feels like disassembling your engine. He doesn't have the authority or
probable cause to do that.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4790
*********************************
