
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, December 28 2003      Volume 01 : Number 4723



Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes
Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes
W-31 motor rebuild progress
Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Got pistons, 10:1 CRatio forged units
Another 455 bites it
Re: Another 455 bites it
Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes
Re- 371 Lifter Preload /Mail Problems?
Fw: Why Does Oprah Think You Should Have One?
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Re- 371 Lifter Preload /Mail Problems?
Re: Another 455 bites it
Quarter Glass
Re: Quarter Glass
Test
RE: SSII Wheel Paint
RE:  FAQ corrections- W31
63 olds
Re: 63 olds
Re: Quarter Glass
UNBOUNCE: OT: W2K pro issues
Re: Quarter Glass
Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
Re: Quarter Glass

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:25:25 -0500
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes

DAMN...how come more people don't do the B-body spindle swap as an upgrade
from drum brakes??? Seems more economical, considering a complete setup
can't cost ya more than $50, like SteveH said :) Handling benefits too!!!!!!
But enough from me, I'm ruining the market for original disk brake setups :)
Chris
- ----- Original Message -----
> >Yep, I get $250 - $300 for a complete setup just as they come off of the
> >car. If the buyer wants a new m/c, calipers etc., the price goes up
> >accordingly. $800 with everything new except the spindles and backing
> >plates.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:27:53 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes

  125.00 for my 72 convertable disc swap out and 85.00 was for new porportioning valve
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:10 PM
  Subject: Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes


  > At 08:18 PM 12/27/2003 -0500, you wrote:
  > >> > Asking $350 with disk brakes or $100 without
  > >
  > >> Wow, are original disk brake setups really worth so much?
  > >
  > >Yep, I get $250 - $300 for a complete setup just as they come off of the
  > >car. If the buyer wants a new m/c, calipers etc., the price goes up
  > >accordingly. $800 with everything new except the spindles and backing
  > >plates.
  > 
  > SHEESH.... and in the olden days, we'd have a hard time keeping from
  > laughing in the Yarde guy's face when he tried to soak us for moren $50 for
  > a complete setup....  
  > ;o((((((((((((
  > 
  > SteveH
  > 
  > 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:29:01 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: W-31 motor rebuild progress

- --0-643442131-1072578541=:76781
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Good Evening all,
Well, I checked my email this evening and I got a post xmas present from Jim at J&S.  Here is the link  :-)))))
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/104091643/106984540TvDlGC
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 
1969 W-31
1970 F-85
1969 442 parts car
1970 F-85 parts car
plus a whole mess of parts for sale


- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square
- --0-643442131-1072578541=:76781
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Good Evening all,</DIV>
<DIV>Well, I checked my email this evening and I got a post xmas present from Jim at J&amp;S.&nbsp; Here is the link&nbsp; :-)))))</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://community.webshots.com/photo/104091643/106984540TvDlGC">http://community.webshots.com/photo/104091643/106984540TvDlGC</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 W-31</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85</DIV>
<DIV>1969 442 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>plus a whole mess of parts for sale</DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Photos - <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21486/*http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//spsimplenol?.file=ny_ts_splash.html">Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square</a>
- --0-643442131-1072578541=:76781--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:52:40 -0600
From: Dave King <buickman@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes

Because of the $300 for custom upper control arms? + Custom machine work
on the lower ball Joints, new tie rods to match the B- body spindle
taper etc.......

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:17:47 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <Berusch@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

  Hagerty has always treated me with kid gloves.  I did have one claim with
them in all the years I have been a client.  I sent them photos of the
damage and an estimate prepared by a body shop specializing in collectible
cars.  They sent me a check for the estimated amount.  I sent them pictures
of the "after" and we were done.  Great service, good rates.

Peter




> I know this has been discussed before.  Can anybody give me good/bad
> experiences with these type of insurance companies.  My current
> insurance is starting to get out of hand.  Hopefully by pulling the
> Cutlass off of that insurance and onto one of these, I would save a few
> bucks.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:27:19 -0500
From: "David Popadic" <davepopadic@core.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

What kind of driving limits do Hagerty have?  I would probably drive 
the car once a week to work (around 45 miles round trip) and maybe 
another 50 on the weekends.  Do they have limits?


>   Hagerty has always treated me with kid gloves.  I did have one 
claim with
> them in all the years I have been a client.  I sent them photos of the
> damage and an estimate prepared by a body shop specializing in 
collectible
> cars.  They sent me a check for the estimated amount.  I sent them 
pictures
> of the "after" and we were done.  Great service, good rates.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I know this has been discussed before.  Can anybody give me good/bad
> > experiences with these type of insurance companies.  My current
> > insurance is starting to get out of hand.  Hopefully by pulling the
> > Cutlass off of that insurance and onto one of these, I would save a 
few
> > bucks.
> >
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:40:19 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <Berusch@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

  Of the insurance specialty companies I looked at, Hagerty had the most
liberal driving limits.  They ask that you have a daily driver for commuting
to work, and that you have some sort of garage or garage like facility for
your collectible.  You can go to shows, participate in parades, caravans, go
out to dinner, shop at a mall if so inclined.  I've loaned one of my
droptops to a couple driving away from the church on the day of their
wedding.  Mileage limititation, if any, is unknown to me.  Try their
website.  Probably www.hagerty.com or some variation on that theme.

Peter


> What kind of driving limits do Hagerty have?  I would probably drive
> the car once a week to work (around 45 miles round trip) and maybe
> another 50 on the weekends.  Do they have limits?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:09:12 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Got pistons, 10:1 CRatio forged units

>Well, found a set of real W31 TRW forged pistons that were not only new and 
>affordable, but right here in town and I could lay my hands on them right 
>away. And the Compression height? Why, it's 1.615, exactly what the factory 
>service manual says, to the thousandth, NOT off by 25 or 30 thou.
>
>Investigation of the compression ratio with the various available pistons 
>reveals:
>
>Stock #409704 pistons were dished ~29cc [2.980 dia x 0.255" deep]
>	7.40 Static CR with .040 gasket, .035 DkClr, and 68cc heads
>
>Initial new pistons [Sterling STL-332AP-030] dished 2.92 dia x 0.210 = 
>23.0cc
>	7.76 Static CR with .040 gasket, .035 DkClr, and 68cc heads
>
>Replacement "9:1" pistons typically dished 2.25 dia x .130 deep = 8.5cc
>	8.82 Static CR with .040 gasket, .035 DkClr, and 68cc heads
>
>Replacement "W31" pistons typically essentially no dish
>	10.06 Static CR with .040 gasket, .015 DkClr, and 68cc heads
>
>Have the cam to use that compression, just need the gearing and exhaust to 
>take full advantage of it later.
>-----------------------
>Chris Witt
>1303 W. Miller Rd.
>Lansing MI 48911
>
>RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
>Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
>Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>

_________________________________________________________________
Expand your wine savvy — and get some great new recipes — at MSN Wine. 
http://wine.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:23:11 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Another 455 bites it

picked up a 455 short block the other day
Dismantled today
holey moley, some folks should not work on stuff
I could see the double roller timing set [no oil pan]
Teardown reveals:

Cam has been replaced along with the timing set.

Cam bolt lost? Not a problem, grab a regular 7/16" COARSE thread bolt and 
use a thick washer,
never mind that bolt head protrusion designed to prevent fwd cam motion....

Bang- bang- bang
what's that noise? Dunno, turn the radio up!
==> Ate a bearing BIG TIME, roont another CN crank, pounded it so bad the 
piston moved down far enough to hit the crank.

Sheeeeeesh
At least it was not loaded with 3 colors of silicone

Block still very good, and 6-7 rods OK yet.
Crank is scrap metal.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Expand your wine savvy — and get some great new recipes — at MSN Wine. 
http://wine.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:23:35 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Another 455 bites it

>Cam bolt lost? Not a problem, grab a regular 7/16" COARSE thread bolt and 
>use a thick washer,
>never mind that bolt head protrusion designed to prevent fwd cam motion....

I was always wondering about that. On the chebby SB, there is no such 
thing. The angle of the lifters keeps the cam back. Why is there no such 
thing on the olds cam?


>Bang- bang- bang
>what's that noise? Dunno, turn the radio up!
>==> Ate a bearing BIG TIME, roont another CN crank, pounded it so bad the 
>piston moved down far enough to hit the crank.

Now, how did that happen from the crank down??? That should not happen, 
just b/c the cam was running forward?

>Sheeeeeesh
>At least it was not loaded with 3 colors of silicone

Ever had the clear stuff. That cracks me up. Did the windows in the 
morning, did the intake manifold in the eve...

>Block still very good, and 6-7 rods OK yet.
>Crank is scrap metal.

I'd toss the rods dude.

George

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:21:39 -0500
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 4sale: 71 Cutlass Frame with Disk Brakes

Hold the phone! Custom control arms from UB Machine are only $48 apiece!
Several G-body people have used them with good results and several thousand
miles. But anyway, on an A-body, one can use offset cross-shafts and 1/2" -
3/4" of shims to get the correct alignment on the _STOCK_ control arms.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjcarri/brkswap/brkswap.htm
Chris
- ----- Original Message -----

> Because of the $300 for custom upper control arms? + Custom machine work
> on the lower ball Joints, new tie rods to match the B- body spindle
> taper etc.......
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:50:09 -0500
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net (Randy Hermsen)
Subject: Re- 371 Lifter Preload /Mail Problems?

Hello

>Most imporatntly, the rocker arm pads for the valves stems **must** be
>perfectly smooth...no wear. If yours aren't, have them re-ground.
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
Rockers and shafts and valves all have 300 miles approx...like new.
(Thanks for the reminder i need to call head shop bout what they removed to clean seats and maybe valve stems tips.)
>
>
>Put the engine at top-dead-center, firing, #1 cylinder. Using a feeler
>gauge, very carefully measure any clearance between the rocker arm front pad
>and the tip of the valve stem for both the intake valve and the exhaust
>valve. You must be very careful so that you do **not** push the pushrod seat
>down in the hydraulic lifter. Then pull the crank around to #8 TDC and
>measure the same again. Do this for all 8 cylinders.
>>>>>
>
>
Heads are on rockers, shafts,and lifters cups/plungers are slightly depressed when valves fully closed...;0 Looks good.
I would still like to measure how much depressed they are?
>
>
>
 I think the rocker arm ratio for a first gen Olds is 1.6, but I don't
>remember exactly. Whatever the ratio is, divide the average figure by that
>ratio to get the cam lift clearance deficit.
>>>>>
>
I cant find a ratio figure in my books?
>
>
>
>Lets say the average clearance figure now obtained for the left head is
>0.002". Then add 0.040" to that figure. 0.040" is the approximate depth the
>lifter plunger needs to be depressed for proper preload. 
>>>>>>
>
>Is there a way i can measure how far down the cup/plunger is now?
Tip of dial indicator on top of cup?
Is .040 proper preload...where did i hear .030?
I could depress the valve spring till lifter plunger is up on its retainer then let valve spring go pushing the rod and plunger down and measure.
>
>
>I am having a real problem with my mail...seems i am missing half the lists posts? Maybe a spam filter?
I got this reply from Milton through Steve/Crew Chief.
Wonder what else i missed or will?
Randy(In the Dark)Hermsen
Happy New Years!

__________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:46:54 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Fw: Why Does Oprah Think You Should Have One?

Hey Steve check this out!
Pat
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "topofferz.net" <ADV@topofferz.net>
To: <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 8:54 PM
Subject: Why Does Oprah Think You Should Have One?


>
>
>
>
> Click Here to Stop Receiving E-Mails from topofferz.net
>
> You can also unsubscribe from our database by sending a letter through
direct mail and/or by phone. Please be sure to let us know what your email
address is or it will be impossible for us to remove you from our database.
>
> Address -- 560-A NE "F" St #438
>                       Grants Pass, OR 97526.
>
> Phone # -- 1-201-581-0342
>
> ngxt. fjnaalf78^nqrycuvn(arg .udsh
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:52:27 -0500
From: "Mike Stilwell" <Fleetsuper@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

From: "David Popadic" <davepopadic@core.com>
>
> I know this has been discussed before.  Can
> anybody give me good/bad experiences with
> these type of insurance companies.  My current
> insurance is starting to get out of hand.
> Hopefully by pulling the Cutlass off of that
> insurance and onto one of these, I would save
> a few bucks.
- -----------------------------------------------

There are so many variables with collector car insurance it's not funny.
You really need to do your homework and compare apples to apples. There is a
great article in the Oct. 2003 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines that is a
great help.

I tried recently to get my 442 insured through Hagerty.  They would not
insure my 442 because my 17 year old son drives a car that is over 20 years
old.  Go figure, they won't insure my classic because my son drives one
also.  I ended up staying with my current company, Allstate, at a price that
was just a few dollars more than Hagerty, and with less driving
restrictions.

Mike Stilwell  OCA #13273
President - Capitol City Rockets
http://www.bigmikes442.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:53:49 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Re- 371 Lifter Preload /Mail Problems?

> Heads are on rockers, shafts,and lifters cups/plungers are slightly
depressed when valves fully closed...;0 Looks good.
> I would still like to measure how much depressed they are?


Yes.


> I cant find a ratio figure in my books?


I can't either to verify.


>Is there a way i can measure how far down the cup/plunger is now?
> Tip of dial indicator on top of cup?


Yes. Use a dial indicator with the sharp pointed probe. Measure the cup
position now in relation to the outer lifter wall. Then pull the rocker arm
shaft assembly off, or use a spare lifter, and measure the difference with
the cup fully up in the lifter body.


> Is .040 proper preload...where did i hear .030?


That's what I always used. I also saw it in a car magazine article on
lifters, about a year ago.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:43:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Another 455 bites it

> I was always wondering about that. On the chebby SB, there is no such
> thing. The angle of the lifters keeps the cam back. Why is there no such
> thing on the olds cam?


For the aftermarket, there are both aluminum and polymer cam bumpers for a
Chevy to keep the cam in place. It's a real bad idea, but a cheap
engineering idea, to try to take forward motion out of a cam by using lifter
action. Why put that much stress on the lifters and the cam lobes, which
detracts a little in power production through unnecessary friction and could
lead to failure? The Olds idea is the correct one, since it removes unwanted
stress from the lifter/cam lobe interface and is dirt simple.

Actually, to be more speciffic, in a Chevy, isn't it the opposite rotation
of the distributor gear that is supposed to pull the cam back and prevent
forward cam motion? I believe it is. That's one reason high performance
Chevys can eat their distributor gear. There's too much backward motion
directly into the distributor gear. Olds opted for a different rotation to
purposely cause forward cam motion, and then used a cam button device to
cancel out that forward motion, effectively creating a neutral positioning
of the cam in the block so there would be no apparent stress on the
lifter/cam lobe interface or on the cam gear/distributor gear interface.

When was the last time anyone has ever seen an eaten Olds distributor gear?
I'll bet you haven't. Compare *that* to a Chevy. Another inherent advantage
to Olds.


> Now, how did that happen from the crank down??? That should not happen,
> just b/c the cam was running forward?


If the cam moved forward enough, the cam gear could have disengaged from the
distributor and the oil pump stopped. It would take just a few secounds for
that damage to happen if the oil pump stopped, particularly at high RPM.


> >Sheeeeeesh
> >At least it was not loaded with 3 colors of silicone


Also, if excessive cured silicone broke loose and plugged an oil passage,
then oil stavation to the rod bearings may already have been occuring long
before the oil pump stopped during the poor 455's last gasp of breath for
life. The stopped oil pump was probably the last gasp, since the electrical
timing would have automatically changed, and the engine would no longer want
to run.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:51:49 -0600
From: "Tim Wagor" <twagor@cox.net>
Subject: Quarter Glass

Does anybody know off hand if the back quarter glass off a 2-dr hard top
1971-72 will work on a convertible of the same years?

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:08:42 -0600
From: "Tim Wagor" <twagor@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Quarter Glass

Forgot to say its a cutlass


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Wagor" <twagor@cox.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:51 PM
Subject: Quarter Glass


> Does anybody know off hand if the back quarter glass off a 2-dr hard top
> 1971-72 will work on a convertible of the same years?
> 
> Tim
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:52:19 -0600
From: "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
Subject: Test

test

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:01:59 -0600
From: "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
Subject: RE: SSII Wheel Paint

Orginal reply 25 Dec. but didn't go through.

I've tried several paints. I also found that The Motor Company was way too
dark such that I thought it was a complete miss-match.  The Tamraz TA-002
Chevy Wheel Silver didn't look right on the rims (was too light I believe)
but did match the 70 W31 grill color very well.   For the SSII wheels I
ended up using Dupli Color general purpose DA-1612.  I believe it was called
a machine gray on the self.  After 2 coats it looked very good and the best
match I could fine. I had original wheels with original paint to compare to
but original paint could darken with age.  I did 6 wheels and am satisfied
especially after putting the trim and chrome back on. I couldn't find any
better.

Dan
70 W31 4-speed
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:11:48 -0600
From: "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
Subject: RE:  FAQ corrections- W31

This was a reply I made on 24 Dec that never went through. Probability
nothing new to most people.  Computor problem now corrected.

I agreed with Chris, especially with respect to the use of the aluminum
intake only in 1970. I've seen a lot of fake and/or rather un-original W 31
claims, which irks me, even at the Volo museum as well as the recent ebay
intake.

 My data on the 1970 W 31 valves comes from 3 sources, shop manual, W-31
sales "specification sheet" and the "AMA Specifications" Sheets distributed
by Oldsmobile.  They report the following:

   Source             Specification         Intake            Exhaust
My Comment or Question

Shop manual         Diameter             2.000 "             1.625 "
Sales Spec sheet    Diameter  (Max)      2.005 "             1.630 "
AMA Specifications  Diameter             2.000/1.990       1.629/1.619(I'm
not sure but I assume the second number was a min)
Shop manual         Valve Material       Non Aluminized   Non Aluminized
for W31 350 only, all other 350's used 												aluminized valves,
however, this differs from AMA Specs
AMA Specification   Valve Material       SAE 1047           ARMCO 21-2 Steel

(I had heard that the 70 W 30 and W31 used a special steel alloy for the
valves, but I don't know for sure.  Others more knowledgeable (Milton,
engine rebuilders, etc., may comment further)      What about the seats?  I
continue to use a lead additive in my 1970 W 31 assuming hardened valves and
seats were not used in any 70 Oldsmobile.

Also the shop manual says the W31, 442's, W33 and W34 used dampers in the
springs.  This would suggest that the #6 heads for the W31 had other
differences from the standard #6 350 head.  I don't know whether this is
significant or not.

Lastly- I hope everyone has an enjoyable and safe holiday season.  I don't
comment on the list too often, but do follow it almost daily and do
appreciate the replies that I've received to the questions I've asked.   I'm
thinking of organizing a Olds cruise and visit to the Gilmore/Kellogg
Foundation Auto museum near Delton Michigan sometime in 2004. My cousin's
son runs the day-to-day operations and it is a very nice country museum with
several barn type buildings filled with antique and classic cars.  Plenty of
open room for a club or list get-together.  Should be able to get some
Illinois and Indiana list members to meet the Michigan folks.   My Michigan
relatives are Johncocks, remember Gorden Johncock, the Indy car driver-same
family.  If this idea has any merit with he Michigan guys, please let me
know.  Thanks,

Dan
70 W31 4-speed
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:54:14 EST
From: Kato111@aol.com
Subject: 63 olds

- -------------------------------1072648454
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My 63 Olds (394 4 barrel carb) starts right up, and idles smoothly, with no 
tapping noise.  I'll travel about 3 miles at about 45-50 miles per hour on the 
highway, when I'll hear a tapping noise from engine (sounds like a lifter??).  
I'll continue for about another 2-3 miles and the noise goes away and the 
engine is fine.  It doesn't lose power and it doesn't run rough.  If I stop the 
car and let it idle, the noise will also go away after a little while. The 
noise doesn't return.  It seems to happen only when the car is warming up (2-4 
miles into trip). I've added a half a pint of Marvel Myster Oil last week, but I 
still have the same problem.  I changed the oil three months ago, adding 
Castrol 10-40 and have only traveled about 100 miles since then.  Any suggestions?

- -------------------------------1072648454
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2734.1600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
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<DIV>My 63 Olds (394 4 barrel carb) starts right up, and idles smoothly, wit=
h no tapping noise. &nbsp;I'll travel about 3 miles at about 45-50 miles per=
 hour&nbsp;on the highway, when I'll hear a tapping noise from engine (sound=
s like a lifter??).&nbsp; I'll continue for about another 2-3 miles and the=20=
noise goes away and the engine is fine.&nbsp; It doesn't lose power and it d=
oesn't run rough.&nbsp; If I stop the car and let it idle, the noise will al=
so go away after a little while.&nbsp;The noise doesn't return.&nbsp; It see=
ms to happen only when the car is warming up (2-4 miles into trip).&nbsp;I'v=
e added a half a pint of Marvel Myster Oil last week, but I still have the s=
ame problem.&nbsp; I changed the oil three months ago, adding Castrol 10-40=20=
and have only traveled about 100 miles since then.&nbsp; Any suggestions?</D=
IV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1072648454--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:15:00 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 63 olds

At 04:54 PM 12/28/2003 EST, you wrote:
>             Any suggestions? 

<sigh... converted from html --->

<I'll travel about 3 miles at about 45-50 miles per hour on the highway, 
>when I'll hear a tapping noise from engine (sounds like a lifter??). 
>I'll continue for about another 2-3 miles and the noise goes away and 
>the engine is fine. It doesn't lose power and it doesn't run rough. If 
>I stop the car and let it idle, the noise will also go away after a 
>little while. The noise doesn't return.  It seems to happen only when 
>the car is warming up (2-4 miles into trip).

Early Olds V8s used rocker shafts that wore out very easily, wearing
grooves into the shaft. Perhaps the shaft wear causes additional rocker
clearance until the shafts warm up thoroughly. It's probably nothing to
worry about although you might want to have a looksee at your shafts and
find new ones if yours are worn. You'll have to unbolt them to move the
rockers around to see the wear under the rockers.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 18:16:42 -0500
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Quarter Glass

> Does anybody know off hand if the back quarter glass off a 2-dr hard top
1971-72 will work on a convertible of the same years?
 Tim, I believe the glass on the convertible is different. I picked up
several rear tinted quarter windows for my 69 Cutlass convertible and the
seller said they fit 68-72 convertibles only. I've also been told that the
tint is different for 71-72 windows  so if you are going with tinted windows
you may want to check it out. Try a search on the Evilbay site for pictures
of the windows and compare to the ones on your car.I believe other A-body
glass will also fit.(Except for Pontiac or Monte Carlo) There was a thread
on this a while back, maybe someone could make a new section for windows on
the 442.com site since this topic comes up frequently.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:04:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: OT: W2K pro issues

I'm forwarding this bounced message on behalf of Chris, with a request: 
please respond to him directly at grp442@yahoo.com, not to the list,
please and thank you. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: W2K pro issues

Sorry for the off topic post, but I'm at a complete
loss.  I'm running Win 2000 Pro with SP4.  Late last
night I was uploading some files to my website.  I had
several instances of IE and Netscape running when IE
crashed and all of IE closed down.  Ever since then I
am unable to run IE or windows explorer or control
panel.  I get explorer.exe has generated errors and is
closing messages or with IE, I get IEXPLORE has
generated errors and is closing.  The PC boots up fine
and I can surf the web using Netscape.  I upgraded to
Netscape 7.1 so I could get on to the microsoft
knowledge base and see what the deal was.  Two KB
articles said to try several things like uninstall IE6
or copy the cpl files to a temp directory on the
desktop and see if control panel will run then put the
cpl files back.  Neither of those things worked as I
still can't run windows explorer, IE or control panel.
 I booted up the pc in safe mode, but windows explorer
and control panel STILL generate errors and don't run.
 I tried reinstalling Win 2K Pro, still broke. 
Because IE and windows explorer won't run I can't even
search my harddrive or determine if I still have IE 6
installed anymore.  UGH!!!!!!!  I was able to get out
to cmd and run appwiz.cpl to add/install programs, but
it only stated I have IE Q824145.  I figured what the
hell, I'll uninstall that, now IE doesn't show up as
an installed program, but I still have icons and I
still get the same IEXPLORE.exe has generated errors
and is closing message.  anyone have any clues or
suggestions (other than using a MAC) to help me fix
this?  I'm debating on whether to upgrade to XP, but
figured thats not a solution to the real problem, so
I'm passing right now.  6 hours of troublshooting and
getting nowhere other than now office won't run is
beyond frustrating.  I've got other things to do
besides screwing around with this stinking pc.

Chris (calling it a nite for "pc repair")
grp442@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:15:50 -0600
From: "Tim Wagor" <twagor@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Quarter Glass

>  Tim, I believe the glass on the convertible is different.

Dan this is correct they are indeed different. Today I took one of my old
clear ones out to a parts car. After removing one from the parts car and
comparing the two, the convertible glass has a place where it is about 3
inches longer.


>I've also been told that the tint is different for 71-72 windows

Thanks for the input on this. I've already acquired a good  pair of tinted
door glass of a '72 and I definitely what the tint on quarter glass to
correctly match.
Anyone have any leads on a good pair of tinted quarter glass for a '71 or
'72 cutlass ?

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:21:54 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)

On Dec 26, 2003, at 6:29 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:42:50 -0500
> From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
> Subject: Re: Custom timing curves vs. MAP (was Re: new to list)
>
>> Why?
>> Drill hole in intake runners, weld/epoxy in bungs, no problem.
>> The intake ports are all the same height regardless.
>
> The tops of the injectors have to be parallel or you'll need funky fuel
> rails.

Still not seeing the problem. Why would they be non-parallel? The 
injectors go close to the head where the runners are all at the same 
level.
>
> drc
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Euless, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:33:36 -0500
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Quarter Glass

> Anyone have any leads on a good pair of tinted quarter glass for a '71 or
'72 cutlass ?

Do you need quarter glass for a hardtop or for a Convertible?
There are a couple of hardtop quarter glass on Evilbay right now if that's
what you need.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4723
*********************************
