
oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, February 5 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4766



silly gas tank question
Looking for Parking Brake Assembly for 65 442
Re: Retro GM Ingenuity!
Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Looking for Parking Brake Assembly for 65 442
Re: TH 300 vs TH 400
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
RE: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
RE: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
RE: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: TH 300 vs TH 400
Re: TH 300 vs TH 400
Re: TH 300 vs TH 400
Re: TH 300 vs TH 400
RockAuto discount code. Expires on March 7, 2004; so don't wait!
batterys
Re: silly gas tank question
silly gas tank question  - Inline Tube
Re: Ammeter hook up instructions, please
Re: batterys
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
Man seeks 62 88 F&R Bumpers
new parts arrivals for sale
Re: Head Bolts or Studs
Re: Retro GM Ingenuity!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:29:48 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: silly gas tank question

List,

I was looking at W-Machine's www.streetrockets.com website, and started
checking out the links. I wound up at the Inline Tube website. I started
looking at the gas tanks and then went erkkkkk!

These guys show a different gas tank part number for '64-'67 Buick Skylark,
'64-'67 Cutlass, '64-'67 Chevelle, and '64-'67 Pontiac GTO/Tempest.
Furthermore, the Cutlass gas tank came without a filler tube.

Why?

The last time I looked, all of these gas tanks were identical. Also, around
1990, I found an abandoned '65 Buick Skylark hulk that still had the gas
tank attached. I removed the gas tank, it was in excellent shape, I had it
boiled out, and it's the gas tank on my '65 F-85 4-door. It fit perfectly.

So, what's the deal? The Inline Tube gas tank listings make no sense.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:46:48 -0800
From: "Albert Penello" <albert@albertpenello.com>
Subject: Looking for Parking Brake Assembly for 65 442

Man now that I have the car back from paint I seem to be running into a
bunch of issues.

At some point while the car was getting painted the parking brake lever was
broken off. Doesn't look like that's a service piece - looks

Anyone have a good used parking brake assembly that will fit a 65 Cutlass?
According to my service manual it looks like the part number is #1364959

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:59:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Retro GM Ingenuity!

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Steve Harrison wrote:

> I had a feeling this might have something to do with the '51 Ch*bby pickup
> that the Coast Guard machine-gunned to death the last year; seems this car
> was built by the same guy who built the truck  ;o(((((((

I think next time they should try a Oldsmobile Submarine.  ;-)

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 00:18:09 -0500
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: Head Bolts or Studs

My 455 short block is almost done at the machine shop but I do not seem to
be able to find new head bolts. I won't reuse the old bolts and would like
to go to studs but can't find either that have the longer front bolts for
the accessories on the front of the engine. ARP tech support said that they
don't have anything and my local Olds dealer said that the head bolts are
discontinued.

Anyone have a suggestion. Reusing bolts with 130k and 35 years of temp
cycling is not a option.

TIA
Jack

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:46:04 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

First, decades ago, we used a mix and match of Mr. Gasket small block and
big block Chevy head bolts for Olds heads, long before ARP came on the
scene. However, since when did ARP discontinue Olds head bolts? By the way,
if you are not running a blower or turbocharger and your engine is located
inside a normal engine compartment, I really don't recommend using head
studs. It's not a good idea.

ARP part numbers for Olds 7/16" head bolts:
#180-3600 High Performance hex
#180-3700 High Performance 12 point
#280-3700 Pro Series 12 point
#480-3600 Stainless hex
#480-3700 Stainless 12 point

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Kopf" <jkopf@optonline.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:18 PM
Subject: Head Bolts or Studs


>
> My 455 short block is almost done at the machine shop but I do not seem to
> be able to find new head bolts. I won't reuse the old bolts and would like
> to go to studs but can't find either that have the longer front bolts for
> the accessories on the front of the engine. ARP tech support said that
they
> don't have anything and my local Olds dealer said that the head bolts are
> discontinued.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion. Reusing bolts with 130k and 35 years of temp
> cycling is not a option.
>
> TIA
> Jack
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:48:15 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Parking Brake Assembly for 65 442

Well, I know where two emergency brake pedal assemblies should exist in a
salvage yard in Tucson. They're on two '64 F-85s.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Penello" <albert@albertpenello.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Looking for Parking Brake Assembly for 65 442


> Man now that I have the car back from paint I seem to be running into a
> bunch of issues.
>
> At some point while the car was getting painted the parking brake lever
was
> broken off. Doesn't look like that's a service piece - looks
>
> Anyone have a good used parking brake assembly that will fit a 65 Cutlass?
> According to my service manual it looks like the part number is #1364959
>
> Thanks!
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:52:50 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: TH 300 vs TH 400

The TH400 is almost indestructible. The TH350 is an economical version of
the TH400 to cut production costs. Find a copy of Ron Sessions' books on the
TH400 and TH350. For most purposes, Sessions will probably convince you to
pick a TH400. The throttle valve kickdown on a TH400 is electric while the
TH350 is a mechanical cable. For custom installations, the TV hookup is
easier when it's electric.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Flipx99@wmconnect.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: TH 300 vs TH 400


> What is the difference between these two trannies? Still in my
anti-computer
> controlled car quest, decided to give up the 200r-4 due to confusing TCC
> conditions. I do not want the manual switch and I kinda ascertained it
would do
> harm to tranny without it. BTW it will go into an 88 CSCB if that matters
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:13:50 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

Jack:

>Anyone have a suggestion. Reusing bolts with 130k and 35 years of temp
>cycling is not a option.

You know, your block was temp cycled too? There are people out there that 
look for cycled blocks! Are you going to throw it out? :) If this is a 
stock engine, you will have no trouble with used bolts. Heck, even on a 
built up street engine, you can use those bolts. Please explain how the 
metallurgy of the bolts and their clamping ability would change from heat 
cycling them at typical block / cylinder head temperatures on a water 
cooled engine?

Now, if it is a race engine, you will have taller valve covers. With taller 
valve covers, you can't run the brackets that go to those studded bolts. 
So, it is a no brainer! Use the ARP bolts and go with short brackets that 
are sold through the tuners, e.g. Mondello and probably also Dick Miller 
etc. With the short bracket you won't need that one hugging the head. The 
A/C will be gone too.

Hope this helps.

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:18:35 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

>However, since when did ARP discontinue Olds head bolts?

Milton: He is talking about the bolts that have a stud on top of them. They 
go on both sides of the engine, both in the bottom hole, second from the 
front. They hold the alternator bracket and the a/c bracket which hugs the 
head / valve cover. Most people that buy ARP hardware have long lost those 
brackets due to tall valve covers and if not that, then the sheer hassle of 
them. I know for a fact that mondello sells a bracket to relocate the 
alternator closer to the fan pulley. This is to avoid the belt from 
flopping around at high rpm like it will when the alternator is only held 
by the front stock bracket.

>  By the way,
>if you are not running a blower or turbocharger and your engine is located
>inside a normal engine compartment, I really don't recommend using head
>studs. It's not a good idea.

Can you elaborate? What's the disadvantage of head studs and what is the 
advantage of them for certain applications? Seems the chevy guys love to 
use them on anything...

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:25:18 -0500
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Head Bolts or Studs

Milton

Thanks for the reply but my problem is the extended length of the bolts into
studs for accessory installation such as AC and Alt. Arp claims that they do
not offer a bolt like the stock OLDS where a stud protrudes from the bolts
on the front of the engine. Maybe the rep I spoke with was wrong. But the
claim was that they sell mostly to performance oriented market that does not
run AC.

>From the catalog online I cannot discern if the bolts have the extended
length for the accessories. My beast is a 68 98 convertible. Far from a race
car and I hope to never pull the heads after the rebuild.

Jack

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Infinite Space
Systems, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 12:46 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs


First, decades ago, we used a mix and match of Mr. Gasket small block and
big block Chevy head bolts for Olds heads, long before ARP came on the
scene. However, since when did ARP discontinue Olds head bolts? By the way,
if you are not running a blower or turbocharger and your engine is located
inside a normal engine compartment, I really don't recommend using head
studs. It's not a good idea.

ARP part numbers for Olds 7/16" head bolts:
#180-3600 High Performance hex
#180-3700 High Performance 12 point
#280-3700 Pro Series 12 point
#480-3600 Stainless hex
#480-3700 Stainless 12 point

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Kopf" <jkopf@optonline.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:18 PM
Subject: Head Bolts or Studs


>
> My 455 short block is almost done at the machine shop but I do not seem to
> be able to find new head bolts. I won't reuse the old bolts and would like
> to go to studs but can't find either that have the longer front bolts for
> the accessories on the front of the engine. ARP tech support said that
they
> don't have anything and my local Olds dealer said that the head bolts are
> discontinued.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion. Reusing bolts with 130k and 35 years of temp
> cycling is not a option.
>
> TIA
> Jack
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 06:30:29 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

At 10:46 PM 2/4/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>if you are not running a blower or turbocharger and your engine is located
>inside a normal engine compartment, I really don't recommend using head
>studs. It's not a good idea.

He's talking about the head bolts that are a bolt complete with head, but
also have a stud on the "topside" under which accessory brackets and
battery negative cables are bolted, like this:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/Tech/Head_ID.jpg

That head bolt you see right above the "E" is normally a studded bolt on
later Olds engines and the negative battery cable is grounded to the block
using the stud. THAT particular studded-bolt has been outta production for
years, and I don't think ARP makes a suitable replacement for some reason.
They really outta as I bet they'd sell a few tens of thousands almost
instantly. IIRC, there are two of those per engine, I ferget where the
other one goes.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:40:19 -0500
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Head Bolts or Studs

Not a race engine. Mild upgrades SS valves, comp roller tips, very mild cam,
real duels with a "S" manifold, OFFY duel plane manifold, hardened seats,
bronze guides, 30 over, balanced.....Had it bored and honed with a torque
plate used ARP main studs and rod bolts. Maybe overkill for a land barge but
I want vacuum for brakes, smooth idle and for it to last another 20+ years
without a teardown. Built to push a 98 convertible.

I understand Milton about the studs. Most cars do not have room to pull the
heads with studs as the head must be lifted off the block. Standard master
cylinders usefully do not allow this to happen.

Had it bored and honed with a torque plate

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of
geo.aigel@netzero.net
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 1:14 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs


Jack:

>Anyone have a suggestion. Reusing bolts with 130k and 35 years of temp
>cycling is not a option.

You know, your block was temp cycled too? There are people out there that
look for cycled blocks! Are you going to throw it out? :) If this is a
stock engine, you will have no trouble with used bolts. Heck, even on a
built up street engine, you can use those bolts. Please explain how the
metallurgy of the bolts and their clamping ability would change from heat
cycling them at typical block / cylinder head temperatures on a water
cooled engine?

Now, if it is a race engine, you will have taller valve covers. With taller
valve covers, you can't run the brackets that go to those studded bolts.
So, it is a no brainer! Use the ARP bolts and go with short brackets that
are sold through the tuners, e.g. Mondello and probably also Dick Miller
etc. With the short bracket you won't need that one hugging the head. The
A/C will be gone too.

Hope this helps.

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:50:48 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

>He's talking about the head bolts that are a bolt complete with head, but
>also have a stud on the "topside" under which accessory brackets and
>battery negative cables are bolted, like this:
>http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/Tech/Head_ID.jpg

STEVE! *You* should know better dude! The battery negative is bolted to the 
front facing side of the head with a bolt! And then, that first head bolt 
is to stay nakid, just like that one seen in the pic. The SECOND bolt in 
the bottom row is where the studded bolt goes. Same on both sides.

>That head bolt you see right above the "E" is normally a studded bolt on
>later Olds engines and the negative battery cable is grounded to the block
>using the stud.

Again NOPE!

>  THAT particular studded-bolt has been outta production for
>years, and I don't think ARP makes a suitable replacement for some reason.

I explained it earlier. Most folks in the market for ARP bolts runs tall 
valve covers. If you don't run tall valve covers, you don't need 
aftermarket bolts!

>They really outta as I bet they'd sell a few tens of thousands almost
>instantly. IIRC, there are two of those per engine, I ferget where the
>other one goes.

I doubt that would happen for the reason mentioned above. Even on stock 
engines, 80% have lost the alternator bracket that hugs the valve cover. 
Unless you run at high rpm, you don't necessarily need it.

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:59:13 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: RE: Head Bolts or Studs

Jack:

I understand that you want it perfect. But in this case you want to use the 
stock brackets for stock appearance and you will need the stock studded 
bolts to hold the back brackets in place. You will not compromise anything 
using the original bolts. Remember, your crank, your rods and your block 
are 35 years old too. The heat in the engine is not enough to embrittle the 
metal of the bolts or any other component. The bolts on these engines are 
designed beefy enough so there is no yield or fatigue, no matter how long 
you run them or how often they are re-used. This is very different on more 
modern fasteners which is where you may have gotten the idea of not reusing 
the stock hardware.

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 23:02:02 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: TH 300 vs TH 400

While the th400 is bullet proof, the th350 consumes less hp/torque to run 
than the th400. I'd use a th350 behind a small block up to a 350 or 
even  mild 403. I'd use a th400 for anything big block. So, if your CS runs 
a small block, go th350.

George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 02:10:24 EST
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: TH 300 vs TH 400

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In a message dated 2/4/2004 11:55:08 PM Central Standard Time, 
imp@theriver.com writes:


> The throttle valve kickdown on a TH400 is electric while the
> TH350 is a mechanical cable. For custom installations, the TV hookup is
> easier when it's electric.

What does the TV cable do? Switch it into 2nd when you "mash" the gas?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>In a message=20=
dated 2/4/2004 11:55:08 PM Central Standard Time, imp@theriver.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The throttle valve kickdown=
 on a TH400 is electric while the
<BR>TH350 is a mechanical cable. For custom installations, the TV hookup is
<BR>easier when it's electric.</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#fffff=
f" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
RIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">
<BR>What does the TV cable do? Switch it into 2nd when you "mash" the gas?</=
FONT></HTML>

- --part1_15a.2ce853fd.2d534660_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 02:11:07 EST
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: TH 300 vs TH 400

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In a message dated 2/4/2004 11:55:08 PM Central Standard Time, 
imp@theriver.com writes:


> The TH400 is almost indestructible

About how much as milage would I lose going from 200r-4 to TH-400. I have 
2.73 gears now but plan to move up to 3.08

- --part1_1da.19db9f8d.2d53468b_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>In a message=20=
dated 2/4/2004 11:55:08 PM Central Standard Time, imp@theriver.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The TH400 is almost indestr=
uctible</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-=
COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LAN=
G=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">
<BR>About how much as milage would I lose going from 200r-4 to TH-400. I hav=
e 2.73 gears now but plan to move up to 3.08</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_1da.19db9f8d.2d53468b_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 23:28:05 -0800
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: TH 300 vs TH 400

>What does the TV cable do? Switch it into 2nd when you "mash" the gas?

Kick down cable. It does it in any gear if there is room to downshift. It 
is activated at wide open throttle or 90% of it. You can run it either off 
your carb or off your pedal.

George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 04:10:31 -0600
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RockAuto discount code. Expires on March 7, 2004; so don't wait!

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I bought all Moog front end components & suspension bushings from these
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save a shipping cost by shipping to my work addy.

The details are listed below.

Steve Reed 
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice 
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode) 
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine) 
Austin, TX 
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear RockAuto Customer,

Thank you for being a www.RockAuto.com customer. To show our appreciation,
we would like to give you and your friends a special discount on auto parts.
Here's how it works:

- - You give this discount code: 7516884511 to friends, neighbors, relatives,
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- - When someone places an order at www.rockauto.com and enters your discount
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www.rockauto.com
service@rockauto.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:05:05 EST
From: Ayashkeefer@aol.com
Subject: batterys

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does anyone know where i can buy a reproduction battery,i am looking for a 
web site,thank you,keith.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>does anyone k=
now where i can buy a reproduction battery,i am looking for a web site,thank=
 you,keith.</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_39.4388de0b.2d537d61_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:37:15 -0500
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: silly gas tank question

Good morning Milton,
   First, how is your wife doing? Second, was there a price diff. between
the
tanks on inline tube?
john orr
67 cutlass supreme

Subject: silly gas tank question


> List,
>
> I was looking at W-Machine's www.streetrockets.com website, and started
> checking out the links. I wound up at the Inline Tube website. I started
> looking at the gas tanks and then went erkkkkk!
>
> These guys show a different gas tank part number for '64-'67 Buick
Skylark,
> '64-'67 Cutlass, '64-'67 Chevelle, and '64-'67 Pontiac GTO/Tempest.
> Furthermore, the Cutlass gas tank came without a filler tube.
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:40:05 -0500
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: silly gas tank question  - Inline Tube

Hey List,

        Inline Tube is also selling repro sending unit/fuel pick ups
for the early 442s. They state that their units are 3/8 and that  ......

GM Sending Units Notes:
All cars 67 and older had a 5/16 fuel line, If you are up-grading to a
larger 3/8" fuel line you will need to upgrade the sending unit as well.

        442s and 4 barrel Cutlass all had 3/8 fuel line ..........
They list a different part number on the sending unit for Buick, Olds,
Pontiac,
and Chevy for the same part !!!!

Check out the sight ...
http://www.inlinetube.com/


The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:10:18 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Ammeter hook up instructions, please

store: e.g. I got the necessary 8-gauge stranded copper for the Dodge's
ammeter from Home Depot.
- ----------------

Best source of 8 gage and bigger is car audio shops. They have super
flexible wire in multiple colors, as well as the connectors. Gold plated to
boot.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:46:43 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: batterys

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In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:08:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
Ayashkeefer@aol.com writes:
does anyone know where i can buy a reproduction battery,i am looking for a 
web site,thank you,keith. 

Keith
   Don' know about a web page but I just bought two from Restoration Battery 
Compnay in Cin Ohio  1-513-451-1038, very nice units.  One for a 69 "442" and 
one for my 61 Starfire

Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

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t=3Dutf-8">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:08:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ayashkeef=
er@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2 PTSIZE=3D"10">does an=
yone know where i can buy a reproduction battery,i am looking for a web site=
,thank you,keith.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Keith</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Don' know about a web page but I just bought two from Rest=
oration Battery Compnay in Cin Ohio&nbsp; 1-513-451-1038, very nice units.&n=
bsp; One for a 69 "442" and one for my 61 Starfire</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA# 1961&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</DIV></BODY></H=
TML>

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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:55:05 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

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In a message dated 2/5/2004 12:23:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jkopf@optonline.net writes:

My 455 short block is almost done at the machine shop but I do not seem to
be able to find new head bolts. I won't reuse the old bolts and would like
to go to studs but can't find either that have the longer front bolts for
the accessories on the front of the engine. ARP tech support said that they
don't have anything and my local Olds dealer said that the head bolts are
discontinued.
   Jack
      I can help you, I have NOS head bolts the long ones, short ones and the 
long  studes for the front..

Everett   OCA #1961   1961 Starfire     reply to  ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/5/2004 12:23:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jkopf@op=
tonline.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><BR><FONT face=3DArial>My 455 short block is almost done at the m=
achine shop but I do not seem to<BR>be able to find new head bolts. I won't=20=
reuse the old bolts and would like<BR>to go to studs but can't find either t=
hat have the longer front bolts for<BR>the accessories on the front of the e=
ngine. ARP tech support said that they<BR>don't have anything and my local O=
lds dealer said that the head bolts are<BR>discontinued.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Jack</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I can help you, I have NOS head bolts th=
e long ones, short ones and the long&nbsp; studes for the front..</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA #1961&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1961 Starfire&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; reply to&nbsp; <A href=3D"mailto:ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM">ANTIQOLDS@=
AOL.COM</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:14:17 -0500
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

At Wednesday, 04 February 2004, you wrote:

>>He's talking about the head bolts that are a bolt complete 
>>with head, but also have a stud on the "topside" under which 
>>accessory brackets and battery negative cables are bolted, 
>>like this:
>>http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/Tech/Head_ID.jpg
>
>STEVE! *You* should know better dude! The battery negative is 
>bolted to the front facing side of the head with a bolt! And 
>then, that first head bolt is to stay nakid, just like that 
>one seen in the pic. The SECOND bolt in the bottom row is 
>where the studded bolt goes. Same on both sides.

I'll have another look during my first break today; but I KNOW...
100% POSITIVE... that I have found the negative cable under the 
nut on the stud in such a way that it obscures the head letter on 
at least 1980's Olds engines. Heck: I'll even try to get a pic of 
mine, maybe.

>>That head bolt you see right above the "E" is normally a 
>>studded bolt on later Olds engines and the negative battery 
>>cable is grounded to the block using the stud.
>
>Again NOPE!

Huh, inneresting. Every Olds V8 I looked at in a huge Yarde up in 
Massachusetts, some 4 years ago, had the negative cable's terminal 
obscuring the head letter.

>I explained it earlier. Most folks in the market for ARP bolts 
>runs tall valve covers. If you don't run tall valve covers, 
>you don't need aftermarket bolts!

What if, like Jack, you just don't want to use your original bolts 
and want new ones? ARP should be catering to that crowd, too, which 
is probably potentially larger than the race-engine crowd.

>I doubt that would happen for the reason mentioned above. Even 
>on stock engines, 80% have lost the alternator bracket that hugs 
>the valve cover. Unless you run at high rpm, you don't necessarily 
>need it.

I dunno why that would be. A restorer certainly wouldn't leave off 
a bracket that would cost points in a show; and most of us who keep 
things fairly-stock will use the stock components.

So again, if ARP isn't making bolt kits for STOCK engines, they're 
missing a good market. After all, who else is there to fill that 
niche now that GM has proven, once again, they couldn't care less 
what customers need for maintenance once you've bought your car so 
won't continue to provide common, oft-needed parts?

Olds wasn't the only GM division to use studded head bolts; I rember 
them on my Ponchos, too, and am certain I've seen them on a Caddy 
or two.

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:53:30 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Man seeks 62 88 F&R Bumpers

FWD> Hi do you have good bumpers for a 62 olds 88 thanks chip
cbernardbus@hotmail.com
- --------------------
CBW> I have a '60 Super 88 but, very badly rusted.
Try free WANTED ad on www.442.com

Email listers- can you help?
Contact him directly at: cbernardbus@hotmail.com
- -----------------------
Chris Witt

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. 
http://wine.msn.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:36:16 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: new parts arrivals for sale

- --0-974200925-1075998976=:2178
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Greetings all,
I just bought a pair of 65 F-85 fenders that I'll be picking up this Sat.  The guy I got them from is parting out a 65 F-85 4dr.  He has a bunch of other stuff for sale, hood, trunk lid, misc chrome, wheel wells, radiator support, p/s brackets, alt brackets and probably some other things too.  I'm going this Sat to look at stuff so if there is anything you need email me directly as I'm on digest.  These fenders I picked up are VERY solid.  From the pictures and description he's sent, passenger side has only surface rust, driver side has surface rust and a hole in the wheel well lip about the size of a quarter at about the 2 o'clock position.  Shipping these might be a problem, but I will be at the BOP swap meet at the DuPage county (outside of Chicago) fairgrounds on March 28 selling stuff so they could be picked up there if not sold already.
Thanks,
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com


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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
- --0-974200925-1075998976=:2178
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Greetings all,</DIV>
<DIV>I just&nbsp;bought a pair of 65 F-85 fenders that I'll be picking up this Sat.&nbsp; The guy I got them from is parting out a 65 F-85 4dr.&nbsp; He has a bunch of other stuff for sale, hood, trunk lid, misc chrome, wheel wells, radiator support, p/s brackets, alt brackets and probably some other things too.&nbsp; I'm going this Sat to look at stuff so if there is anything you need email me directly as I'm on digest.&nbsp; These fenders I picked up are VERY solid.&nbsp; From the pictures and description he's sent, passenger side has only surface rust, driver side has surface rust and a hole in the wheel well lip&nbsp;about the size of a quarter at about the&nbsp;2 o'clock position.&nbsp; Shipping these might be a problem, but I will be at the BOP swap meet at the DuPage&nbsp;county (outside of Chicago) fairgrounds on March 28 selling stuff so they could be picked up there if not sold already.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21260/*http://photos.yahoo.com">New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing</a>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:03:01 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Head Bolts or Studs

> Thanks for the reply but my problem is the extended length of the bolts
into
> studs for accessory installation such as AC and Alt. Arp claims that they
do
> not offer a bolt like the stock OLDS where a stud protrudes from the bolts
> on the front of the engine.


Jack,

Okay, I didn't read your message that way. I misunderstood. ARP is correct.
They don't have any top stud head bolts. However, it's not a problem.

The reason for replacing the head bolts is due to the loss of the Modulus of
Elasticity in the bolt over those 35 years and 150K miles of heat cycling.
As long as the bolt is still tight, the stress inside the bolt stays the
same. Once it's removed, the bolt changes. Maybe not by much, but there is
an internal change on the molecular level.

If you use new regular ARP head bolts, and then reuse a couple of stock
accessory stud bolts, there won't be a problem. The point is to keep the
overall clamping force on the head tight, which may not happen with old head
bolts. With 8 new ARP head bolts and 2 reused accessory stud head bolts, the
clamping force *will* stay tight. The old bolts will not have an incentive
to loosen, since the 8 new bolts will maintain tightness. You won't have a
problem.

I always save all of the accessory stud head bolts, all the time, and throw
away all the other standard used head bolts. The mixing with new ARP head
bolts will be okay.

One small tip, have all of your accessory stud head bolts either glass
beaded or shot peened to clean them. Before beading, take a small file and
remove all nicks and scratches so there will be no stress risers. They will
look like new, and they will be stress relived. They will be stronger.

Another small tip is to use hardened washers under the head bolts. The
rotational friction between the head of the bolt will then occur on top of
the hardened washer instead of the much softer cast iron, giving a more true
torque reading and causing that torque to stay true over a longer time
period.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:45:17 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Retro GM Ingenuity!

>I had a feeling this might have something to do with the '51 Ch*bby pickup
>that the Coast Guard machine-gunned to death the last year; seems this car
>was built by the same guy who built the truck  ;o(((((((

Local news stories indicate that yes, it was the same guy.

Y'know, if he ever does make it over here (and I wouldn't be surprised if 
strings are being pulled _somewhere_ to enable that; Castro might let him go 
just to avoid further embarrassing publicity), his first stop in the U.S. is 
probably going to be across the desk from Jay Leno on the Tonight Show...

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4766
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