
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, February 10 2004     Volume 01 : Number 4771



Re: starter solenoid frozen in ON position?
Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems
Optima Batteries
Check out the Oldses.
Converters
Re: Converters
Open House
Re: Converters
Re: Converters
Re: Converters
Re: Optima Batteries
Re: 45 degree aftermarket camshaft wanted
Re: Open House
Re: 404584 water pump ....
Re: Converters
Re: Converters
RE: Optima Batteries vs Trojan
Re: Optima Batteries vs Trojan
Re: Optima Batteries vs Trojan
Re: Converters
re: 404584 water pump ....
Customer Service
Re: 404584 water pump ....
Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill
Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems
Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems
RE: Customer Service
RE: Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill
Re: Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:32:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: starter solenoid frozen in ON position?

The Optima still has a top vent system, but it's a gel electrolyte, not a
liquid one, so there is no splashing or bubbling. With a vintage style
battery cover, there still has to be some way for hydrogen gas to escape.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: starter solenoid frozen in ON position?


> Is the Optima one of those non-vented top batteries that will work well
with
> a vintage style battery cover sold by many parts suppliers?
>
> Enjoy!
> Rob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
> Subject: Re: starter solenoid frozen in ON position?
>
> > Then
> > bite the bullet and buy a gel OPTIMA battery. OPTIMA batteries are
> > indestructible. I've never seen a battery work so well, ever. You won't
> > regret getting an OPTIMA.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:32:26 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems

Too late.  Currently proceeding with '84 booster, MC, pipes, prop valve,
and calipers.  Only thing left that's '77 will be lines from prop valve to
discs in front, and the line from the prop valve to the rear brakes.

FYI, even the holes in the firewall to mount the booster are smaller than
the bolts on the '84 booster.  Just barely too small, a drill cleared it
right up, but still different.

There's not going to be a "next" owner, Paul...


At 03:14 PM 02/09/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>> and I should just go back to '77 calipers?
>
>Uh, that's my vote.  Not only does it seem simpler now, but think of the
next owner years down the line trying to get brake parts...
>
>Paul
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:57:24 -0800
From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@oldsgmail.com>
Subject: Optima Batteries

I agree, Optima batteries are nearly indestructible little powerhouses.
Hot, cold, upside down, etc nothing puts out power like these guys!  I've
been using them since they came out about 8 years ago.  I left my console
open once (194 bulb) for 2 days and the car still fired right up.  Also once
my Alternator went out and I drove home 60 miles on the battery only (MSD
ignition and a computer to run--1984 model) and there was still enough juice
left to start the car again when I got home!  There's a few things to watch
out for though:

They don't handle deep-cycling very well.  A few times of being drained
completely dead and you'll be out a battery (to be fair this isn't exactly
good for normal batteries either, but Optimas are more delicate).  There is
a yellow top version designed for being deep-cycled that I've heard good
things about but I haven't used it.  Put a battery tender on it when storing
your car.

When drained the Optima will suck up all the power you can reasonably give
it when recharging.  It will trip my [pretty good] charger and make it cycle
on and off (as it heats up, trips, cools off, repeat) for the first little
bit of a recharge.  Also, after getting my car back on the road after a
2-year downtime (battery was recharged from dead only enough to start the
car) my alternator went out on the first drive.  Coincidence or did the
increased drain fry the alternator?

> bite the bullet and buy a gel OPTIMA battery. OPTIMA batteries are
> indestructible. I've never seen a battery work so well, ever. You won't
> regret getting an OPTIMA.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:43:43 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Check out the Oldses.

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Just came across this on their website. Cool stuff

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/articles.editorial/article_id/56



Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92 Eldo

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Just came across this on their website. Cool stuff</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/articles.editor=
ial/article_id/56">http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/articles.edi=
torial/article_id/56</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190=
 SL Conv.<BR>92 Eldo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1076363023--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:22:44 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Converters

Anyone using a aftermarket converter?

What brand and application?

Were you happy with the results?

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:17:15 GMT
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Converters

Not sure what brand I have. It is advertised at 2500 rpm stall according to the previous owner. OVERKILL! Be very careful, the numbers advertised by the manufacturer for 'stall speed' are NOT for an engine that makes 600 ft-lb of torque. ;) Not my fault, came like that from the previous owner. I'd go with only slightly over stock, maybe a 2000 advertised if your cam needs it. B&M if you can.

George

- -- "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net> wrote:
Anyone using a aftermarket converter?

What brand and application?

Were you happy with the results?

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:29:47 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Open House

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         Want to extend an invitation to any Oldsmobile fan in the New 
England area.
         I am having an open house for the GMO Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club 
of America at 10AM to whenever on Saturday Feb 21st at 10AM. 
         If  you are interested in comming you are more than welcome, I have 
about 5,000 sq ft of NOS and good used Oldsmobile parts as well as some 
reproduction and some Goodmark sheetmetal.    1950 - 1980
         If anyone is interested and need directions either call me at 
1-401-435-7139 or my cell phone at 1-401-573-6361 or e-mail me at ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM 


Everett  OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

E & G Automotive
9 Newman Ave
Rumford, RI 02916
                                  

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Want to extend an invi=
tation to any Oldsmobile fan in the New England area.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am having an open ho=
use for the GMO Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America at 10AM to wheneve=
r on Saturday Feb 21st at 10AM. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If&nbsp; you are inter=
ested in comming you are more than welcome, I have about 5,000 sq ft of NOS=20=
and good used Oldsmobile parts as well as some reproduction and some Goodmar=
k sheetmetal.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1950 - 1980</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If anyone is intereste=
d and need directions either call me at 1-401-435-7139 or my cell phone at 1=
- -401-573-6361 or e-mail me at <A href=3D"mailto:ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM">ANTIQOLDS=
@AOL.COM</A>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp; OCA# 1961&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>E &amp; G Automotive</DIV>
<DIV>9 Newman Ave</DIV>
<DIV>Rumford, RI 02916</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1076376587--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:20:11 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Converters

At 11:17 PM 2/9/2004 GMT, you wrote:
>I'd go with only slightly over stock, maybe a 2000 advertised if 
>your cam needs it. B&M if you can.

The '80s 442s, MCs and GN/GNXes used a torque converter stamped D5 which
has a stall speed between 2400-2600 at the torque produced by the usual 307
and 305 (dunno what it did behind the turboed 231). This works VERY well
with the 200-4R tranny and 3.23 gears in a heavy full-sized wagon. I
wouldn't hesitate to go 2500 rpm, particularly if your gears are 3.23 or
higher.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:25:41 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Converters

It all depends on your goals and modifications.

For best performance (accelaration), choose a stall at or slightly below the engine's torque peak. For general
street/strip use, the stall speed of the converter should be below youre cruise rpm at 60 (hopefully your cam was chosen
with this in mind) or overheating and gas mileage can be an issue. A trans cooler is recommended with any converter.

Keep in mind that they are rated on an average v-8 torque of 350-400 lb-ft. If you are running a big block, it will
likely stall higher than the rating (not necessarily though depending on cam, gear ratios, weight, traction,etc). When
in doubt, call the tech line of the manufacturer who can make a recommendation based on the above.

I have usually run in the 2000-2400 range on my street cars with good results. A word of advice...like with cams, when
in doubt; choose the milder of the two.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:14:30 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Converters

> A word of advice...like with cams, when
>in doubt; choose the milder of the two.
>
>Kevin
>

That's not very American. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:13:43 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Optima Batteries

I agree. These things are great!

I used to park my race car all winter long in Prince George (November to April). Usually through about 6-10 weeks of -20
C and 2-3 weeks at -40 C. Never charged it, never turned it over (motor was pulled and rebuilt every winter).

The car would start effortlessly after all this neglect. Never had any alternator issues, though.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:30:00 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 45 degree aftermarket camshaft wanted

> Hello Fred  How do I know if it is a switch pitch and
> how does it work.

If it is the original TH 400 from a '65-'67 Olds, it is a switch pitch.
They have an electrical connection on the trans with an extra terminal that
controls a variable pitch torque converter.  The vanes in the converter  are
switched between low stall and high stall based on a signal from the rather
crude linkage from the factory, or Bruce Roe's electronic controller.
Bruse's controller works FAR better than the original factory set up, which
failed to take full advantage of the excellent variable pitch feature.
Bruce can be contacted at bcroe@juno.com.  Tell him I sent you.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:37:29 -0800
From: jkopf@optonline.net
Subject: Re: Open House

<BODY><P></P>
<P><B>I'll try and make it. Like to see your place.</B></P>
<P><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</P>
<P><STRONG>Jack</STRONG></P>
<P><B>----- Original Message -----</B></P>
<P></P><B>From</B>: S61starfir@aol.com
<P></P><B>Date</B>: Monday, February 9, 2004 5:29 pm
<P></P><B>Subject</B>: Open House
<P></P>
<P></P>&gt; Want to extend an invitation to any Oldsmobile fan in the <BR>&gt; New <BR>&gt; England area. <BR>&gt; I am having an open house for the GMO Chapter of the <BR>&gt; Oldsmobile Club <BR>&gt; of America at 10AM to whenever on Saturday Feb 21st at 10AM. <BR>&gt; If you are interested in comming you are more than <BR>&gt; welcome, I have <BR>&gt; about 5,000 sq ft of NOS and good used Oldsmobile parts as well as <BR>&gt; some <BR>&gt; reproduction and some Goodmark sheetmetal. 1950 - 1980 <BR>&gt; If anyone is interested and need directions either call <BR>&gt; me at <BR>&gt; 1-401-435-7139 or my cell phone at 1-401-573-6361 or e-mail me at <BR>&gt; ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Everett OCA# 1961 1961 Starfire <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; E &amp; G Automotive <BR>&gt; 9 Newman Ave <BR>&gt; Rumford, RI 02916 <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </BODY>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:41:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank Fellman <frank.fellman@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 404584 water pump ....

- --0-2004968190-1076391716=:47773
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yep-- bottom of page ten... God, but I love that little booklet!  :o))))
                                                        Phantom455
 
 
Everett wrote:

    From the yellow "Oldsmobile Numbers Swap Meet Guide" that was put out by Dennis Mothershed Of OVC Industries and gives credit to a lot of notable sources.
    This number is not listed but at the bottom of the listing he states "Casting numbers 398681, 400289,404584 & 404847 can't be verified in any GM document at this time. Also samples have not been found to verify origin."
 
Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire  
 


- --0-2004968190-1076391716=:47773
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Yep-- bottom of page ten... God, but I love that little booklet!&nbsp; :o))))</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Phantom455</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From the yellow "Oldsmobile Numbers Swap Meet Guide" that was put out by Dennis Mothershed Of OVC Industries and gives credit to a lot of notable sources.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This number is not listed but at the bottom of the listing he states "Casting numbers 398681, 400289,<STRONG>404584</STRONG> &amp; 404847 can't be verified in any GM document at this time. Also samples have not been found to verify origin."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA# 1961&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
- --0-2004968190-1076391716=:47773--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:18:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Converters

B&M 11" Competition Converter, furnace brazed, full torrington needle
bearing package. In use since 1971 (21K miles). It's perfect. This converter
was offered before B&M started making Holeshot converters. Now, B&M has
several different types.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
To: "Oldsmobile-Digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: Converters


> Anyone using a aftermarket converter?
>
> What brand and application?
>
> Were you happy with the results?
>
> Paul Tumolo
> 1970 442 Hardtop
> OCA # 31967
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:45:24 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Converters

- -> 
> That's not very American. 
>

Whatcha expect from a Canuck like myself ???   ;oI

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:25:33 -0500
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net (Randy Hermsen)
Subject: RE: Optima Batteries vs Trojan

Hello
I cant help but to tell my Trojan story....
When i bought race car it had sat in a field for 3 years with the trojan batt. in the trunk.
One winter was cold enough to crack the block 3-4" long on side of water jacket(previous owner didnt believe in anti freeze?).
The batt. still held a charge so i installed it in the convertible.
Then i installed it in the ex. gurls friends 2x 66s Olds and she had drained it dead at least 2 times leavin lights on .
Then i installed it in my truck.
Then i let my friend borrow it for his truck.
He finally gave it back about 6 months ago.
Total batt. must be....say approx. 9 nine years old.
I own 2 more trojan batts. now and the orig. one is still kicking STRONG!
I find safety in the trojan brand :)
Randy(Charged up)Hermsen
58 tri power(ready for race season)
72 Cutlass(Buick430)
72 Cutlass convert.(Windy)

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:07:06 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Optima Batteries vs Trojan

Randy,

> I find safety in the trojan brand :)


I could editorialize on your comment, but I'll resist temptation. :-)))

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:43:33 -0500
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: Optima Batteries vs Trojan

  you know Milton, I was thinking the samething...  :-)
john orr
67 cutlass supreme


Subject: Re: Optima Batteries vs Trojan


> Randy,
> 
> > I find safety in the trojan brand :)
> 
> 
> I could editorialize on your comment, but I'll resist temptation. :-)))
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:55:43 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Converters

b&m qaulity stinks i prefer ati
last longer .
b&m you just pay for a faded rep
ron
> B&M 11" Competition Converter, furnace brazed, full torrington needle
> bearing package. In use since 1971 (21K miles). It's perfect. This converter
> was offered before B&M started making Holeshot converters. Now, B&M has
> several different types.
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
> To: "Oldsmobile-Digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:22 PM
> Subject: Converters
> 
> 
> > Anyone using a aftermarket converter?
> >
> > What brand and application?
> >
> > Were you happy with the results?
> >
> > Paul Tumolo
> > 1970 442 Hardtop
> > OCA # 31967
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:58:26 +0000
From: oldsranch@att.net
Subject: re: 404584 water pump ....

per Greg Rollins book, 442 by the Numbers:


"70 455 w/o A/C, HD cooling, W-30"
- ----------------------------------
Dave Worthington   Waynesville, OH
http://home.att.net/~oldsranch
- ----------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:25:27 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Customer Service

I am in the market for a new torque converter to match my rebuilt
engine. Last week I sent my cars' information out to 5 converter
manufacturers. As of this morning, the only reply I have received is
from Coan.

Is it me, or am I expecting too much?

Paul Tumolo - expecting superior customer service
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:49:51 -0500
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 404584 water pump ....

So it might be a W30 pump ????

The General
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <oldsranch@att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:58 AM
Subject: re: 404584 water pump ....


> per Greg Rollins book, 442 by the Numbers:
> 
> 
> "70 455 w/o A/C, HD cooling, W-30"
> ----------------------------------
> Dave Worthington   Waynesville, OH
> http://home.att.net/~oldsranch
> ----------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:00:29 -0600
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Greetings...

Two questions follow...

Number One:
In my 1985 Delta 88 Royale, the back driver's side window
motor won't work. It's a bad motor--that much has been
established. I have access to another Olds--an 84
Ninety-Eight. It, too has power windows. Are the motors
interchangable in the rear? If so, what is the procedure
for pulling the trim off of the inside of the door? Are
there pics anywhere on the net? I've heard that the trim is
held on by some large spring clips. This procedure will
have to be carried out within the week. Very long story
there.

Number Two:
I'm installing an amp in the trunk of the 88 (same one as
above). I need to get 4ga power cable from the battery to
the back. I've heard two schools of thought. First is to
run the wire on the undercarriage of the car then drill up
through the floor of the trunk. Second is to drill through
the firewall and run it that way through the wiring channel
on the floor into the trunk. Which is the best idea, and
where should I drill through the firewall if that is the
best option? I'd like to drill where accessibility is at a
maximum and thickness is at a minimum. Any ideas?


Sorry for the long-winded note,
Branson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:30:09 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems

On Feb 8, 2004, at 10:20 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:10:13 -0500
> From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems
>
> I don't want to sound like a bump in the road ,(no pun) but if it is a
> numbers matching pace car? Why would you change OEM parts? That will 
> greatly
> depreciate the value of the car.
> Also the size of the calipers and rotors on a '77 compared to an '84 
> are
> huge. If you're using an '84 caliper and MC setup and trying to stop a
> bigger dia. rotor it might be asking for trouble. Don't forget the
> proportioner valve is also set up for larger brakes.

What? All b-bodies used either an 11-inch (standard) or 12-inch (HD) 
rotor.
They used the same caliper on either, and they used the same caliper 
from sixty-something right up to the end in '96, excluding police 
package and Impala SS.
The only thing that changes is maybe whether the caliper is tapped 
metric or SAE for the hose. For that matter, A-body or F-body calipers 
will fit as well. Just ask the guys doing the b-body tall spindle swap 
on their a-bodies - Global West, for example, recommends a '76 Camaro 
caliper. I know that all single-piston caliper b-bodies, a-bodies, and 
second-gen f-bodies used the same brake pad...

What Brian's running into is GM's half-a$$ed "metric-ization" of their 
cars in the '80s, along with some actual improvements in design over 
the years.

> Anybody else help in this dilemma?

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX

krwright@sbcgloabl.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:43:20 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems

On Feb 8, 2004, at 10:20 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 05:14:12 +0000
> From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: '77 & '84 Delta 88 Brake Systems
>
> At 10:29 PM 2/7/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>> Also the size of the calipers and rotors on a '77 compared to an '84 
>>> are
>>> huge. If you're using an '84 caliper and MC setup and trying to stop 
>>> a
>>> bigger dia. rotor it might be asking for trouble. Don't forget the
>>> proportioner valve is also set up for larger brakes.
>>
>> Both this '77 and the '84 that donated the parts have 11" discs in 
>> the front.
>
> ..... and IIRC, ya can swap on the 12-inchers from a B-body wagon with
> minimal muss and fuss. Mebbe, ifn you gotta spend money anyhow, ya 
> outta
> back up a step or two and consider doing that instead. They go on the
> A/G-bodies by changing the upper control arms and lower ball joints 
> but I'm
> pretty sure the 12" spindles/rotors/calipers will swap directly on the
> "lesser" B-bodies directly. So mebbe look fer a Crapice wagon in the 
> Yarde
> and get the schtuff from that.

They will. I found 12-inchers on two 90's Caprices as well. Came on 
Taxis, Police Cars, and a lot of wagons. Get post-'81 spindles - they 
have the larger outer bearing that you'll need for the next part 
(below)
>
> After all, ifn you put the '84 plastic reservoir on there, it won't 
> exactly
> look quite correct anyhow.

A reman replacement for your cast-iron '77 unit should be pretty cheap 
- - GM used them on everything.
>
> One caveat about the 12-inchers, however: the bolt pattern will be 5x5
> instead of your present 5x4-3/4. And to get 5x5 in the rear end, you 
> can't
> simply swap the rear end from a wagon as it's a bit wider (although I 
> dunno
> whether that's just the axle tubes, or whether the extra width also 
> spaced
> out the lower control arms, too).

If you have and want to keep 5x4.75, just use rotors for a 88-92 Camaro 
with the 1LE brake package. They're exactly the same as B-body 12" 
discs, but with 5x4.75 bolt pattern. Metric studs, though. They can be 
knocked out and replaced with SAE studs after drilling the holes a tiny 
bit bigger (use 35/64" drill, according to Global West).
Bonus: you can get the 1LE rotors drilled and/or slotted for the bling 
bling! :) I'm trolling for a set on eVilBay myself, along with the 
tubular a-arms to put the whole shebang on my '70 Sports Coupe.
>
> And the other thing: I don't think there's any SS-type wheels in 5x5
> pattern, so you'd hafta do something else. B*ick had at least three
> good-looking sets of 15x7 aluminum mags on wagons and I believe Olds 
> had
> two types although I've never seen them. The Crapices only had the
> geeky-looking wire covers or the plain-jane solid covers. Dunno what
> Ponchos had. I've got the B*ick Illustration manual and will look to 
> see if
> it shows any SS-type wheels but if so, they'll have B*ick center caps  
> :o(((((

Buick had a SS-1 type wheel that they used on the big cars. Seen them 
on a lot of Chevy pick-ups for some reason...
>
> SteveH

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX

krwright@sbcglobal.net
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:45:07 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Customer Service

>I am in the market for a new torque converter to match my rebuilt
>engine. Last week I sent my cars' information out to 5 converter
>manufacturers. As of this morning, the only reply I have received is
>from Coan.
>
>Is it me, or am I expecting too much?

This may start an extended thread of navel-gazing posts, but IMHO no, you're 
not expecting too much, if they're soliciting customer inquiries and then 
not responding to them in a timely manner. I mean, I do Tech Support for a 
living, and if we don't have an answer for the customer right away, we will 
at the very least send back an email grunt of acknowledgement to let them 
know that we've received their email and we're working on it. (We usually 
assign a case number for tracking purposes as well.) This applies equally to 
problem reports, technical questions or inquiries about products.

The speed of response you get depends on how you contacted them. i.e. An 
email to a Customer Support address or a message left on an (800) number 
support line should be answered within one day at the _most_. (Someone 
should be sifting through the In box first thing in the morning.) If you 
sent to a more generalized address like "comments@whatever..." maybe another 
day would be needed for routing to the right place. I wouldn't expect much 
response from the postmaster or webmaster addresses, as much of the time 
those contacts are monitored only by third-party contractors, and even then 
maybe not more than once a week.

And in a worst-case scenario, you might have been accidentally filtered out 
as spam at the receiving end for various reasons. If you're feeling 
generous, try contacting them one more time, using an alternate method if 
possible (e.g. phone instead of email). Right now, Coan should be your front 
runner; the others are going to need to catch up.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and 
beyond. http://special.msn.com/network/celebrateromance.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:28:44 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill

>In my 1985 Delta 88 Royale, the back driver's side window
>motor won't work. It's a bad motor--that much has been
>established. I have access to another Olds--an 84
>Ninety-Eight. It, too has power windows. Are the motors
>interchangable in the rear?

I'm 99% certain that they are.

>If so, what is the procedure
>for pulling the trim off of the inside of the door? Are
>there pics anywhere on the net? I've heard that the trim is
>held on by some large spring clips.

Yes, you need a door-panel removal tool, available at practically any 
auto-parts store, which looks like a large screwdriver with an angled, 
forked tip on it that can reach behind the panel to find the wide-shouldered 
plastic retainer pins or clips, and safely pry them out of the door. You 
could conceivably use a large flat-blade screwdriver, but you're much more 
likely to rip the retainer out of the door panel and leave it sticking out 
of the door. You really need the forked tip to properly pry straight upwards 
on the retainer, and the angled shaft of the removal tool is what gives you 
the prying leverage.

Once you're down to the inner sheet metal of the door, you'll find the door 
motor held in by several large pop-rivets. Use a punch to knock the stem of 
each retainer rivet into the door, then drill out the rivets themselves to 
free the motor. Be careful to use a drill just wide enough to drill out the 
_stem_ of the rivet, not the wide, visible head of it. The rivets are soft 
aluminum and the drilling should go very quickly.

You will need small nuts, bolts and lock washers to attach the motor in its 
new door.

>Number Two:
>I'm installing an amp in the trunk of the 88 (same one as
>above). I need to get 4ga power cable from the battery to
>the back. I've heard two schools of thought. First is to
>run the wire on the undercarriage of the car then drill up
>through the floor of the trunk.

No. There's no reason to have power cables dangling or routed under the car, 
nor to drill holes in the trunk that you'd then have to seal, weatherproof, 
etc. The existing ones for taillights, gas tank, signals, etc., are all 
routed _inside_ the car as much as possible. Even if undercarriage wiring is 
out of sight, it only takes one piece of road debris to snag it, or an 
accumulation of snow and ice may build up around it, then rip the wiring out 
as it falls off.

>Second is to drill through
>the firewall and run it that way through the wiring channel
>on the floor into the trunk. Which is the best idea, and
>where should I drill through the firewall if that is the
>best option? I'd like to drill where accessibility is at a
>maximum and thickness is at a minimum. Any ideas?

If you can't actually find an existing hole to make use of (i.e. it won't be 
open but it'll have a large grommet that you could carefully trim a hole 
in), then drill your new one as high up on the firewall as possible, to keep 
it away from road splash. Exact location is up to you; just measure _very_ 
carefully from existing landmarks that you can locate on both sides of the 
firewall.

Removing the left-side door sills and lifting the carpet should reveal the 
main wiring bus which runs from the fusebox under the dash down the left 
side of the car, through the rear bulkhead behind the rear seat and into the 
left side of the trunk, where its solid-aluminum wires (about six of them) 
plug into stranded-copper wiring harnesses at the left rear of the trunk 
(look under the mat or cardboard trunk well fillers if necessary). For most 
of its run it may be enclosed in a black plastic conduit or flat rectangular 
sleeve. (It may help to remove the rear seat; get back to us if you need 
help with that.) Follow the existing factory wiring as best you can when 
adding your new stuff, and that should keep your new wiring out of trouble.

Also don't forget proper fuses on this wiring, as close to the origin at the 
front of the car as possible.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed 
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:30:40 EST
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: Power Window Motor/Firewall Drill

- --part1_f6.367469a6.2d5a6130_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en

In a message dated 2/10/2004 9:05:03 AM Central Standard Time,=20
bsparks@gosparkle.net writes:


> Second is to drill through
> the firewall and run it that way through the wiring channel
> on the floor into the trunk. Which is the best idea, and
> where should I drill through the firewall if that is the
> best option? I'd like to drill where accessibility is at a
> maximum and thickness is at a minimum. Any ideas?

Ha, the first time I ever to get answer a question I know something about.=20
First, the best place I have found is the far left where the brake pedals ar=
e.=20
The metal is very thin there. The further left you go ther better. The run i=
t=20
through the wiring channel.  Sometimes getting through the little crevice to=
=20
get it into the back seat is a =E2=80=A6. Don't worry a little wiggle will g=
et it=20
through. You'll also want to put a switch somewhere on it. Run the power wir=
e and=20
the remote wire on the same side. Put the RCAs on the other side. I do not=20
reccommend undercarriage unless you had some pvc conduit inside the frame or=
=20
something. Then you would still have to wire the remote wire inside the car=20=
because=20
it is usually necessary to have a "kill switch" for ither police ride by and=
=20
you can cut your amp off, or it goes into protection mode for some reason an=
d=20
you need to cut it off for that purpose. Hope this helps.

- --part1_f6.367469a6.2d5a6130_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>In a message=20=
dated 2/10/2004 9:05:03 AM Central Standard Time, bsparks@gosparkle.net writ=
es:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Second is to drill through
<BR>the firewall and run it that way through the wiring channel
<BR>on the floor into the trunk. Which is the best idea, and
<BR>where should I drill through the firewall if that is the
<BR>best option? I'd like to drill where accessibility is at a
<BR>maximum and thickness is at a minimum. Any ideas?</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"=
#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZ=
E=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">
<BR>Ha, the first time I ever to get answer a question I know something abou=
t. First, the best place I have found is the far left where the brake pedals=
 are. The metal is very thin there. The further left you go ther better. The=
 run it through the wiring channel. &nbsp;Sometimes getting through the litt=
le crevice to get it into the back seat is a =E2=80=A6. Don't worry a little=
 wiggle will get it through. You'll also want to put a switch somewhere on i=
t. Run the power wire and the remote wire on the same side. Put the RCAs on=20=
the other side. I do not reccommend undercarriage unless you had some pvc co=
nduit inside the frame or something. Then you would still have to wire the r=
emote wire inside the car because it is usually necessary to have a "kill sw=
itch" for ither police ride by and you can cut your amp off, or it goes into=
 protection mode for some reason and you need to cut it off for that purpose=
. Hope this helps.</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_f6.367469a6.2d5a6130_boundary--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4771
*********************************
