
oldsmobile-digest      Monday, February 23 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4788



Re: Sub: unipoints
Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
442 is painted
Re: 442 is painted
Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
Northern Ohio OCA Spring Dust Off
Re: seatbelts
snow and how to blow it
Re: SERIOUS vibration
Friction and gravity
Re: SERIOUS vibration
Re: SERIOUS vibration
Re: seatbelts
Happy Olds guy
RE: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
Re:unipoints
Re: 442 is painted
RE: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling
Re: seatbelts
Re: SERIOUS vibration
BAD vibration upon braking
2 Grand Air Cleaner
RE: Question for seller -- ebay crank #2461084547
Re: Serious vibration
Re: seatbelts
66 442 bkp lites wiring mystery SOLVED - Need SWITCH WIRE/ TERMINAL!
more physics
Re: ADMIN: Another Weather Outage
Sub: unipoints and engine flush

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:59:45 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: Sub: unipoints

62oldsfan@comcast.net wrote:
>>Does anyone know if the G.M. unipoints fit distributors which have separate 
>>points and condenser?
> 
> 
> Yes, I believe they do.  I bought a unipoint set for my '61 98 many years ago.  Right after that the car quit running.  I had it towed in and the mechanic replaced the unipoints with separate points and condenser and all was fine.  The mechanic told me the unipoint sets are junk and told me not to use them.  I haven't bought a set since.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
I've used themn exclusively since about 76 or whenever they
  came out and never had a problem
John Kelsey
dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:33:37 -0500
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

Eh...that's what Frod called them back in the day...the Galaxie 7-liter,
rare birds too...also think Pontiac 6.6 liter GTO...that's what it said on
the badges! Had the European flair.

Chris
- ----- Original Message ----- >
 Nice math, Steve.. but in 1966, not a handful of Americans had a clue as to
> what a liter was.
>
> M
>
>
> At 06:21 AM 2/21/2004 +0000, Steve Harrison wrote:
> >What SHOULD qualify them is that the engine wasn't merely a
run-of-the-mill
> >large-displacement V8, such as the top-of-the-line 345 hp 428 that was in
> >my '66 Galaxie 7-liter, 4-speed convertible.
>
> Mark Mullins
> Tucson, Az
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:17:31 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: 442 is painted

Picked up the '72 442 from paint yesterday, and it is absolutely 
gorgeous!!  Super gloss, no dirt, no fish eye, no ripples in the body, 
color is right on.  Now I need to get it together enough for next weeks 
show. after I finish the floors in the house....right!!  I am just as happy 
as a pig in slop!!

Joe Varley
      AZ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:38:07 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442 is painted

- -------------------------------1077500287
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/22/2004 8:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
carcouple@cox.net writes:
Picked up the '72 442 from paint yesterday, and it is absolutely 
gorgeous!!  Super gloss, no dirt, no fish eye, no ripples in the body, 
color is right on.  Now I need to get it together enough for next weeks 
show. after I finish the floors in the house....right!!  I am just as happy 
as a pig in slop!!

Joe Varley
      AZ 
   You ruined that nice dull all original finish on that beauty??  You have 
until Sunday to get it ready.

Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

- -------------------------------1077500287
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/22/2004 8:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, carcoupl=
e@cox.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Picked up the '72 442 from paint yesterday, an=
d it is absolutely <BR>gorgeous!!&nbsp; Super gloss, no dirt, no fish eye, n=
o ripples in the body, <BR>color is right on.&nbsp; Now I need to get it tog=
ether enough for next weeks <BR>show. after I finish the floors in the house=
....right!!&nbsp; I am just as happy <BR>as a pig in slop!!<BR><BR>Joe Varle=
y<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; AZ </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; You ruined that nice dull all original finish on that beau=
ty??&nbsp; You have until Sunday to get it ready.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA# 1961&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</DIV></BODY></H=
TML>

- -------------------------------1077500287--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:49:09 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

At 07:33 PM 2/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Eh...that's what Frod called them back in the day...the Galaxie 7-liter,
>rare birds too...also think Pontiac 6.6 liter GTO...that's what it said on
>the badges! Had the European flair.

The Goat emblems said 6.5 liters, which is 389 CID; 6.6L calculates to
about 396 CID. (caution: token Olds content coming :o) Makes one wonder
about the 6.6L decal on the hood scoop of 403-equipped T/As   ?8-|

What was strange was that as far as I recall, Poncho only used 421 and 428
badges, never "bragging" about those engines in terms of liters (which
would have been 7.0L and 7.1L) ;o\  But those 421 fender badges were
verrrrry pretty; I once had a NOS set I bought from the dealer in '73  ;o(((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:20:52 -0500
From: "James Savnik" <j.savnik@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Northern Ohio OCA Spring Dust Off

The Northern Ohio Chapter OCA will have their annual spring dust off on
Sunday, May 2nd.  I will post location and times at a later date, or you may
contact me.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:49:59 -0500
From: Joe Vitek <joevitek@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: seatbelts

Andrew Geeting wrote:

> >From what I understand, a 5pt harness is not DOT approved and you can be
> ticketed for wearing one.

Hmmm, now that is a good point. When I get the '81 CS prepared for road racing
use for the Silver State Challenge, it will have a 'cage and 5 point harnesses
for both front seat occupants. I want to be able to drive it on the street
with this setup, but don't want to be ticketed every time I drive out of New
Hampshire. Does anyone know for sure about what Andrew stated above or where
any info on this can be found? New Hampshire doesn't have a seatbelt law for
adults, so no problem there for me. BUT, when I drive into Maine, Vermont or
Mass, I don't want to be hassled.

- --
joe vitek (on the banks of the Merrimack River, Concord, New Hampshire)
http://oldsgmail.com/
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joevitek/index.htm
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/C3carbhackers/
'83 H/O #2981 of 3001
'81 Supreme (to be FE3-X clone MS'ed road racer)
'72 Kawasaki H1 500cc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:01:34 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: snow and how to blow it

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:26:19 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Another Weather Outage

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Andrew C. Green wrote:
>Y'know, we 'murricans down here use snowblowers for that kind of thing, and 
>we don't get anywhere near as much as snow as you do...  :-)

Snowblowers aren't real effective on steps, much less on the 6-foot high
pile of snow the plow dumped at the end of my driveway.  :-(

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
===============
HAH! [scoff]
I just met guy at work
has cabin up north - granted, N in MI, not as far as some parts of Canadia.
He tells me last weekend was spent removing the snow from his cabin ROOF
With his snowblower.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:24:14 EST
From: Tremendous442@aol.com
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

- -------------------------------1077506654
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

rotors can still be out. check runout

- -------------------------------1077506654
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">rotors can still be out. check runout</BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1077506654--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:04:05 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Friction and gravity

And, actually, the bigger cars do hold the road better (coefficient of
friction is proportional to weight, isn't it?), at least until inertia
takes over.
But that was then. Things have changed.

Kevin Wright                                krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
==================
Technically, the friction coefficient stays the same for a give tire and 
road surface, regardless of weight applied. However, the traction/ steering 
force available by virtue of that c.o.f. _is_ proportional to the weight 
applied. Friction force is in fact the product of the c.o.f. and the 
"normal" force- what we would call the weight [though there is of course 
more to it than that]. Then again, as you surmised, you also NEED more 
traction to steer/ accelerate a greater mass at the same rate. So, what 
benefit a large barge receives from increased weight is stolen right back 
when you need to accelerate [including all variations thereof- such as 
change direction, decelerate, etc.].

The std test to establish the c.o.f for a given pair of materials, as I 
recall from Physics classes, is to place a weight with a bottom surface 
composed of material A on a flat surface of material B, then gradually lift 
one end of the plate until the block begins to move. The tangent of the 
angle of inclination is the static c.o.f  for that material pair. The weight 
and surface area of the block are [more or less] inconsequential. Therefore, 
2 cars, wearing the same [type rubber] tires, but weighing differently by 
say a factor of 2, on the same surface, would theoretically  break free of 
that surface at the same angle of inclination. I suspect that surface area, 
in real life dynamic scenarios on the cutting edge of traction, does indeed 
factor in, which would be why bigger tires are used, to get more traction, 
though the physics of STATIC friction assert that the area of the contact 
patch is mathematically irrelevant. [You know how they lie, though].

I know things have changed. For instance- gravity is a lot stronger now than 
it was like 20 years ago. It takes me a lot more effort, for example, to 
carwl out from under a dash now than it did then. :-)

Must be stronger gravity. Yeah.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:08:39 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

At 05:00 AM 2/22/2004 EST, you wrote:
> why is it when he hits the brakes? would it not shake all the time if it
>were front end parts?

Not necessarily. When the brakes are put on, the road is more-firmly
"locked" to the front end parts through the tie rods then the center link
and finally the steering box. When you're going down the road, everything
is essentially "loose" and only wobbles to the extent of however much that
stuff is worn. When the brakes are applied, road feel is directly
"connected" to the car's frame and what keeps the wheels pointed is all the
front end parts being put under tension. If there's considerable wear in
tie rod ends and the center link, the road will keep grabbing the tires,
causing them to try to follow the road and its imperfections. The wear in
front end steering parts, in particular, will allow the tires to wobble
back and forth as they do that, while imparting lots of wobble into the
steering parts and transferring all that tire motion into the car's frame
and body. Since parts are loose, that motion becomes very quick and can
feel like something's grabbing the tires and slamming back and forth.

Out-of-round rotors will exacerbate the problem of worn front end parts.

>it happens when he hits the brakes.

That's when one typically discovers one has severely-worn front end parts
;o(  The other time, of course, is when driving on a rough road.

>if it happened on acceleration, what would it mean?

On acceleration, the car's weight is transferred off the front tires and
toward the rear, placing much less weight on the front end. This reduces
the amount of tension required to keep the front tires pointed which
reduces the amount of steering-input, meaning the slop due to wear in front
end steering parts becomes much less noticeable.

It's easy to check for wear in front end suspension and front end parts;
simply jack up the front end and wriggle the wheels, while watching the
center link. There should be almost no slop whatsoever. Place a tire iron
or crowbar under the tire and lift upward; there should be NO upward motion
as the iron is lifted up and down; if there is, there's severe wear in the
ball joints. Ball joint wear doesn't usually cause the severe wobbling as
the front brakes are applied but WILL cause front end clunking and other
noises as the tires ride over rough roads. Often, there is NO warning that
the lower ball joint is about to pop apart because it's always under
tension, since the spring is between the lower A-arm and the car's frame. A
worn upper ball joint often gives ominous signs of being ready to let loose
if, when the steering wheel is cranked all the way to one side or the other
at very low speeds, it feels like one or both of the front tires are
wobbling or scrubbing on the road and the car shakes back and forth; it
feels exactly like a severely bent wheel. Loose upper ball joints also
often cause looseness in steering.

If all the front suspension parts are in good shape and there's still a
strange feeling that the front end is "loose" when the brakes are suddenly
applied, it's possible there can be frame problems, such as a severely
corroded weld somewhere on the front crossmember, allowing the two frame
rails to move around with respect to one another. When this happens, the
two front tires essentially wobble back and forth with different amounts of
travel with respect to the car body, creating a wobble in the steering
wheel that can make the car body feel like it's not solidly-connected with
the front end. A friend had a '79 M*libu wagon once that exhibited severe
front end wobble when he applied the brakes; there was some wear in the
steering components but not a lot. He kept investigating and eventually
discovered the front frame, right in back of the driver's front wheel, was
rotted. The frame was cracked right through the #2 body mount. This allowed
that whole front frame rail to move back and forth, in and out, which was
causing a severe wobble on the left front wheel when he applied heavy brakes.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:13:29 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

At 05:05 AM 2/22/2004 EST, you wrote:
> rotors have been known to be warped right out of the box. I have seen this
>so many times, it is ridiculous. ask any mechanic with a lot of brake
>experience, and I am sure you will hear this again. I urge you to check
>rotor run-out. 

I've also seen them out-of-round, causing horrendous unbalancing and severe
road rumble at higher speeds. One rotor I bought a few years ago was
clearly machined off-center; the hole in the center was offset and you
could easily see the variation in the thickness of the wall of the hub.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:58:34 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: seatbelts

Listmembers,

Wanted to chime in here, as we just had a lengthy discussion of safety gear 
at the SCCA National Convention here.

Not wanting to offend, Milton, but all I've ever seen racing belts (Simpson, 
RJS, G-Force, etc.) made of is either nylon or polyester.  SFI-rated belts 
(majority of US-made belts) have a 2-year allowance in SCCA Club Racing, 
FIA-rated belts (European-made) have a 5-year allowance.  The difference is that 
US-made belts are made of nylon, and FIA-rated belts are made of polyester.  We 
were also told that regular automotive belts are usually made of polyester, which 
holds up better in the environment than nylon.  The nylon belts tend to (in 
tests) stretch more than the FIA belts, but both are very acceptable.

As was also posted, don't even think of installing much more than a lap belt 
unless you do so per the manufacturer's guidelines.  "Belt dumping," where the 
material gets bunched up on one side of the adjuster on a set of belts was 
discovered to have contributed to a particular death at Daytona a few years ago, 
due to variances from the manufacturer's specifications.

As for whether or not you could get ticketed for wearing racing belts versus 
regular belts, I'd think that would be one for the courts, and it could be 
successfully fought: if they're mounted in the same location as the factory 
belts, why would it be a big deal?  I wouldn't even let my son ride in Uggy (70 
C-10 pickup) until I _replaced_ the belts that had spent way too much of their 
time _under_ the seat and wouldn't even function properly.  A set of SFI-rated 
(or even better, FIA-rated) belts are going to be superior to anything stock as 
long as they're properly mounted and worn.  It's like wearing a Snell 
SA-rated helmet on a motorcycle, a Snell M-rated helmet is adequate and the major 
difference is the fireproof lining of the SA helmet.

Something that was also discussed was having a set of belts re-webbed.  Some 
manufacturer's won't do this (Simpson is one) but those that do can 
essentially give you a fresh set of belts (with a new SFI tag) at a price that is 
competitive with a completely new set off the store shelf.

Supplemental restraint systems (like the HANS device), racing seat 
construction, restraint mounting, fire extinguishing systems, even the type of harness 
latch system were discussed with several notable panelists in attendance.  
After what I heard it made me rethink some of the plans in Grace (the "someday 
this car will race again" project) as well as any other racing endeavors we might 
have in the works.

Want to know more?  Drop me a note, I'd be more than happy to relate what 
I've been told.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:39:28 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Happy Olds guy

Picked up the '72 442 from paint yesterday, and it is absolutely 
gorgeous!!  Super gloss, no dirt, no fish eye, no ripples in the body, 
color is right on.  Now I need to get it together enough for next weeks 
show. after I finish the floors in the house....right!!  I am just as happy 
as a pig in slop!!

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:35:48 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

At 11:28 AM 2/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>I haven't been following this thread through every detail, but I would think
>any reasonable definition (if there is such a thing!)would consider the
>power-to-weight ratio which is always the start of how fast a car can be.
>This would put a realistic spin on the big cars as to whether they really
>*are* musclecars.  I consider my Jetstar 1  to be a musclecar (Sure I'm
>biased, but..):  375 hp, 3950 lbs, 4-speed, 3:23 posi.  "We don't need no
>stinkin' badges...."

I'll go along with that; that's what the insurance companies used to define
muscle cars, too. That 10 lbs/hp GM restriction caused a lot of
ridiculously-low horsepower specs  ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:24:36 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Re:unipoints

The answer is yes. Unipoints will fit any GM points distributor. You
need to take out the points and the separate condenser and bracket.

But, this begs the question: Why not slap in a Pertronix Ignitor and be
done with it? I did this on my car. It idles better, runs smoother, and
eliminates those pesky points. Best $75 I have spent on the car.

And, really easy to do.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:50:44 EST
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442 is painted

- -------------------------------1077511844
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey Joe

I cannot wait to see it!!!

Vinny

- -------------------------------1077511844
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Hey Joe</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I cannot wait to see it!!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Vinny</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1077511844--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:15:45 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: What is a muscle car?  was: muscle cars handling

At 11:35 PM 2/21/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>....That 10 lbs/hp GM restriction caused a lot of
>ridiculously-low horsepower specs  ;o\

Ummm.... that was actually 10 lbs per cubic inch, not horsepower  ;o\ 

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:21:52 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: seatbelts

> Not wanting to offend, Milton, but all I've ever seen racing belts
(Simpson,
> RJS, G-Force, etc.) made of is either nylon or polyester.


You're not, at all. According to Sandia National Labs, nylon, polyester,
polyurethane, urethane, and polyurea takes 110 years, at minimum, to begin
to deteriorate. I'm not saying nylon seat belts would last that long, but
they definitely will be good for 10 years, regardless of either aerospace or
pro racing safety certification. I don't believe it would be a good idea to
let a seat belt lay exposed in direct Arizona sun for 10 years, but with
reasonable care, they'll last a long time. The 3" Simpson belts in Thunder
are 34 years old. They look like they were just now installed and are soft
and supple.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:16:22 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration

I can affirm that.
I was manager at MUNRO by Speedy for too many years...Every rotor or drum
out of the box was turned for the simple reason  of being.......... if it
went on  true to specs, than it wasn't fault to us if it was faulty.
Therefore, that is also the reason we wouldn't do a complete brake job 'as
advertised' w/out putting on new calipers and rear cylinders. That is how
you got your "lifeteme warranty" registered to the 'owner' of said vehicle.
Registration has to match owner!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Tremendous442@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: SERIOUS vibration


> rotors have been known to be warped right out of the box. I have seen this
so
> many times, it is ridiculous. ask any mechanic with a lot of brake
> experience, and I am sure you will hear this again. I urge you to check
rotor run-out.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:07:29 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: BAD vibration upon braking

>I hit the brakes as hard as I could plant my foot in them,
>and the whole car started shaking REALLY bad. I felt like I was in a paint
>mixer or something. Even the guy with me said he had never been in a car
>that shook that bad. That's the first time I have stomped on the brakes at
>that speed. Can out-of-round wheels shake that bad under these conditions?
=================
worn front end parts will do this too
Things get all wobbly

Lift car, hold one wheel still while you wiggle-turn the other
Loose idler arm will typically cause what you describe, and while you wiggle 
the 1 wheel, you can see if the idler arm dances up and down. Ideally, NO 
lost motion will be present, usually end of idler moves perceaptibly but not 
much. If it moves more than say 1/8", best get front end redone.

out of spec drums and rotors will help/ induce that vibration, and worn 
suspension/ steering/ shiocks will allow it to exist/ grow objectionable. 
Gets into harmonic vibrations.

Ck ball joints and rubber bushings while yer in there, too.
Mitaswell...
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial 
offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:10:01 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 2 Grand Air Cleaner

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:59:02 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: 2 Grand Air Cleaner

>I think paying nearly $2G's for an air cleaner is nuts.
===============
I would gladly come up with $2000 for a 1966 tri-carb W30 air cleaner.
GLADLY.
Sell whatever I need to.
Well, except the tri-carb setup  :-)
[Gift of the Magi story there somewhere]
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed 
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:14:01 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Question for seller -- ebay crank #2461084547

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:49:36 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Question for seller -- ebay crank #2461084547

If laying one on it's side will hurt it, just imagine the pretzel you 'll
end up with once you hit the key???

Thanks for the laugh Chris!
=====================
EXACTLY!
What, they made certain cranks out of Play-Doh(R) ?!
Crikey, the things some folks believe.

I see a certain '68 H/O on a certain eVil site this week has that RARE 455 
block with "F0 Hardness"
*snort*
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. 
http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:36:53 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Serious vibration

Sure sounds like worn front suspension parts, like tie rod ends, and an 
idler arm.  The out of round wheels will start the action and the high 
speed helps it continue, and magnifies it. Replacing a worn idler arm can 
make a huge difference in how solid a front end feels.

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:27:05 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: seatbelts

> How long would you get away with using a racing seat belt on the street?
> From what I understand, a 5pt harness is not DOT approved and you can be
> ticketed for wearing one.


That is not correct.

An unethical cop can give you a ticket for anything, but if you were cited
for using racing seat belts in your car, first, the judge will throw it out,
and second, you can file unprofessional conduct charges against the cop with
his department's IAD.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:20:43 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 66 442 bkp lites wiring mystery SOLVED - Need SWITCH WIRE/ TERMINAL!

2/21/04

At long last!!! 1966 442 MT bkp lites wiring mystery SOLVED
By two methods...

Method 1 was to rummage thru the Box O' Wiring bits that the car used to 
wear. In that box was a GROMMET, with 3 holes, which exactly fits the hole 
in the firewall. And obviously used to have a wire passing thru it, just the 
size of the bkp lites' switch wires. Plus, that pc of wiring from the 
underdash connector to the grommet/ terminals that caused the confusion, 
showed some evidence of black gooey substance like undercoating near the 
grommeterminal end. AND, that end sported a little plastic peg thingy as if 
to place in a hole to hold the wire where it belongs. No such hole INSIDE 
the car, therefore that part must be fwd of the firewall, eh? Ayep, feeble 
memory of removing that 3-hole grommet also was stirred.

Method 2- colleague actually found the illustration in the Assembly Manual 
that shows how all that was fitted together. Indeed, although the 
grommeterminal has a lip and a recess that makes it appear that it SHOULD be 
placed directly in a hole such as that in the firewall... it in fact does 
NOT install like that. [I suspect maybe that was "Plan A," but the assembly 
process ended up pushing grommeterminal out of its hole when switch wire was 
plugged into it, thus delaying the assembly line?]  The entire grommeterinal 
and some 6 inches of wire are foreward of the firewall/ trihole grommet 
adjacent to the fusebox/ bulkhead.

Now, we just need the pc of wire from the [4-spd] trans mounted switch, and 
mostly the TERMINAL that plugs into that grommeterminal near the firewall. 
Said terminal configuration is totally unlike any other I have EVER seen 
used anywhere on any other GM car.

Looks like the only way to get one might be to buy a whole new SWITCH/ wire 
assembly?? [no wonder that switch was obtained so affordably on eVil- no 
wire!] I figured we could work around that.

Hey, anybody got a spare new or used one they could part with? I can send 
pic of the grommeterminal that it must mate to. If not, we will have to make 
one out of underdash female spade terminals. "If it was easy, ANYBODY could 
do it".
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:50:28 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: more physics

"Well, 70 + 70 mph = 140mph. Wouldn't T-boning Jeff Gordon or smacking the
wall at 140+ create about the same forces?
Paul Pate"
===============
Actually, it's not quite that simple...
That simple math might hold true for the _rate_ at which pieces crumple in a 
crash, but let's look at it this way...

The crash severity depends a lot on the amount of energy that must be 
disspated to cease motion. In that respect, speed is not at all linear, in 
fact, Kinetic Energy goes by the SQUARE of the speed. 2x the speed ==> 4x 
the energy to disspate.

Scenario 1:
Car of mass M hits immovable wall at 50 MPH. Kinetic Energy was 1/2Mv^2, or
   KE = [0.5M]*2500.

Scenario 2:
2 identical cars meet head-on at 50 mph....
Presumably both crumple and come more or less to rest at the point of 
impact, each
unit experiencing essentially the same crash timing [travel speed to 0] asin 
hitting
an immovable object such as a bridge abutment. Like #1 above.
K.E. = 0.5Mv^2 + 0.5Mv^2, or...
   KE = ([0.5M]*2500) * 2
[intentionally NOT combining numerics in order to readily compare to the  
figures in Scenario 1]

So, is 50mph +50mph = 100 mph?

Scenario 3:
Car of mass M hits immovable wall at _100_ MPH.
Kinetic Energy was 1/2Mv^2, or...
   KE =  [0.5M]*_10,000_
Which is of course 2x the energy involved in Scenario #2, and _4x_ the 
energy involved in Scenario #1, as previously set forth above.

Additional factors that are crucial are the rate at which the fragile human 
occupants are decelerated to a halt, the area over which that required force 
is applied to their carcasses, and the organs impacted during that process. 
Witness a certain Princess, whose heart was literally ripped from its major 
vessels by the forces of impact.

Crumple zones, by absorbing energy... and taking _time_ to do so, slow the 
deceleration process that the human bodies are subjected to. If you have all 
year to stop from 100 mph, no worries. If you have 0.005 seconds- you got 
problems. Like which style halo to pick out.

Of course, in a car- car crash, mass wins. Imagine 2 balls meeting head-on. 
If masses are identidal, and they are crumply or soft [i.e., don't bounce 
apart like pool balls]... then they both end up at the meeting point, 
stationary. However, if one is steel cored and one is hollow... the net 
result is that the lighter unit not only comes to zero speed in its 
direction of travel, but ends up going at some reduced speed IN THE OTHER 
DIRECTION, so the occupants of the less massive object are at a very 
significant disadvantage in the event of a head-on collision.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:45:07 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Another Weather Outage

Wow.
North Texas just had our regulation one day of snow per year last 
weekend. It was a beautiful snow, actually. It lasted exactly one day. 
Nice and fluffy, good snowball/snowman snow. Usually we get crusty, icy 
stuff.
It's now in the 60's...

krw
On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:28 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:24:56 -0400 (AST)
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: ADMIN: Another Weather Outage
>
> After surviving Hurricane Juan at the end of September, Halifax was hit
> with another major storm yesterday. What is being described as a winter
> hurricane dumped 3 feet of snow on the province and was accompanied by
> strong winds for the entire day. The news is saying it is the worst
> blizzard in local history. As a result, Chebucto's power was lost and 
> the
> system was down yesterday evening and overnight. Some other services
> remain down today. Please be patient.
>
> As for me, I've been able to clear out my back door and driveway, 
> although
> there isn't much place to go. My front door is buried under a snowdrift
> and I can't open it or even get to it from outside. Once the snowplows
> start making their way around I'll be digging my driveway out again, 
> and
> the weather is calling for another storm on Sunday. Lucky us. ;-)
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>           Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:08:51 EST
From: Kt8321@aol.com
Subject: Sub: unipoints and engine flush

- --part1_116.2f05109a.2d6a11f3_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks to everyone for comments on unipoints. About engine flushing, I would 
rather not use a flush agent, because as was mentioned, there is a possibility 
of oil return holes being clogged. The best and safest method I have found is 
to use Shell Rotella T. Change the oil more often as it will turn black 
quickly at first. I used this method on the 350 that was originally in my 69, and 
it worked great. Oil color went from coal tar and asphalt at 1000 miles to a 
light brownish tinge at 2500-3000. My brother, an independent trucker for 50 
years, would use nothing but Rotella in his trucks and all his cars. I think he 
even carried some in his Thermos. 8>))
Ken Thomas

- --part1_116.2f05109a.2d6a11f3_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Thanks to everyone for comments on=20=
unipoints. About engine flushing, I would rather not use a flush agent, beca=
use as was mentioned, there is a possibility of oil return holes being clogg=
ed. The best and safest method I have found is to use Shell Rotella T. Chang=
e the oil more often as it will turn black quickly at first. I used this met=
hod on the 350 that was originally in my 69, and it worked great. Oil color=20=
went from coal tar and asphalt at 1000 miles to a light brownish tinge at 25=
00-3000. My brother, an independent trucker for 50 years, would use nothing=20=
but Rotella in his trucks and all his cars. I think he even carried some in=20=
his Thermos. 8&gt;))<BR>
Ken Thomas<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_116.2f05109a.2d6a11f3_boundary--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4788
*********************************
