
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, February 1 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4762



Re: Tool-wire hub caps
Re: Stock HP and Torque Olds. '74 350
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: Tool-wire hub caps
Re: Spark Plug Wire lengths
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
'68 Cutlass in Commercial
What is a long small KE/KF pulley for/ from? 
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: Tool-wire hub caps
Delta 88 question (1968)
Re: Starters, was: Tool-wire hub caps
Re: Found that elusive 455 block, killed it too
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: Delta 88 question (1968)
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: '76 Cutlass Supreme Rear bumper needed
Re: '68 Cutlass in Commercial
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)
Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:16:25 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

> Does anyone know if the tool to remove wire hub caps are all the same or
do they differ from year to year or from model to model ?

- ---------------------

The idea of these was to prevent theft.  Wouldn't work too well if they were
all the same for the same year and model car, would it?  There are a whole
bunch of different "keys" for these.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:51:28 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stock HP and Torque Olds. '74 350

Thank you Joe,
It seems that those numbers are common among a lot of engines for that year,
must be that is when the government really started taking concern about the
emissions.
Pat Swanton.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Stock HP and Torque Olds. '74 350


> At 02:20 PM 01/31/2004 -0500, Pat wrote:
> >Hi list,
> >
> >Can You tell me what the horsepower on the 1974 350 rocket motor is? It
was
> >a motor I bought from the bone yard and mildly rebuilt with a  comp cam,
> >wiend intake, holley 750 dual pumper.......I'm only interested in stock
HP
> >and Torque.
>
> According to the info I have, only a 4-bbl was available, and they were
all
> officially 8.5:1 compression.  HP and Torque numbers are SAE net...
>
> VIN
> CODE EXHAUST     HP   TORQUE
> ---- ------- ---------- ----------
> ? single 160 @ 3800  275 @ 2800
> K single 180 @ 3800 275 @ 2800
> M dual 200 @ 4200 300 @ 3200
>
>
> I think the first entry might be erroneous, it seems to sort of more match
> up the 1975 and 1976 numbers (with catalyst).  I suspect that it's a
> typical Chilton's mixup.
>
>
> - Joe Vahabzadeh
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:06:14 -0500
From: "Roc88ket" <roc88ket@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

Joe,

My understanding of the EGR is to "reburn"  partially burned exhaust. I
don't know how that could make an engine run cooler. Regardless, anytime you
advance timing, the car runs hotter. This can easily result in pinging that
can be bad for pistons over the long haul. My suggestion would be to
eliminate the EGR by plugging the vacuum hose leading to it, install a
cooler thermostat to keep the engine a little cooler (like a 180) and
advance the timing 5 degrees or so. If your car can qualify for no annual
inspections due to age, eliminate the cat as well in the exhaust. You won't
believe the difference.

I have no knowledge of the EGR equipped vehicle running cooler. I'm no
engineer but that makes no common sense.

John Sanders

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:33 PM
Subject: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....


> All,
>
> Okay, going back on what I recall being told at various points, the
> purpose of the EGR valve is to lower combustion chamber temperatures, thus
> reducing the formation of nitrogen oxides.  At least, if I recall
> correctly.  Kinda confused me a little because I always figured exhaust
> gases to be almost as hot as what's going on in the combustion chamber.
> But I guess it *does* work as the theory describes....
>
> So, I realize that the introduction of exhaust gases means that you're
> bringing in more non-combustible gases.  Maybe this is what's making
things
> cooler.
>
> BUT . . ok, you've got this extra stuff that basically reduces the
> percentage of combustible gases in the chamber, thus you get less power.
> But the cooler temperatures involved because of this allow you to use more
> aggressive timing, correct?
>
>
> If I've gotten all my assumptions and recollections straight so far.....
> then I have a question:  If emissions weren't a consideration, then does
> the use of EGR + extra spark timing advance make up for, or exceed, what a
> pre-EGR with less-advanced timing can do for you?
>
> Then further, does the use of the more aggressive timing in an
> EGR-equipped car cause other issues, either emissions-wise or
> performance-wise?
>
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> - Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:07:01 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

Yes, the starters are pretty much all the same, pay close attention to the
bolt pattern. Some are in line, with one long and one short bolt, and the
other would be two long, but at an angle to each other. Hard to explain.
More than likley the bolt patterns will be the only thing that would be
different.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William Grumblatt Jr" <wgrumblatt@sbcglobal.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:29 AM
Subject: Tool-wire hub caps


> Does anyone know if the tool to remove wire hub caps are all the same or
do they differ from year to year or from model to model ? I have one for my
87 custom wagon and I found a cutlas broughn at the pick-a-part yard with
14" wire hub caps. seached the car and couldnt find the tool. Thinking they
would look good on the 67 delta 88. It wasnt the local yard so I really
didnt want to drive out there if the tool I have won't work. just don't have
time to spare for a dead run. Did find just about everything I needed for
the 87 wagon should have it running in another week or two.
>
> I took the 350 out of the wagon and put the 307 in, can I use the starter
from the 350 on the 307. With what I got at the yard today the starters the
last part I need, if I need one.
>
> Bill G
> 67 Delta 88 Custom
> 87 Custom Wagon
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:23:24 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Spark Plug Wire lengths

Go to www.jegs.com  They have numerous applications. Blue Max are the only
company that offers a spool of plug wire that you cut to specific length
and crimp the wire end in the angles you need. That was about 10 yrs. ago.
Can't hurt to ask. Hope this helps.
Good hunting.
Pat Swanton.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:08 AM
Subject: Spark Plug Wire lengths


> Hello List,
>
> I  was wondering if there was a reference that cited the correct lengths
for
> each of the spark plug wires.  It seams that most wires, both custom and
> non- custom replacements are WAY too long.  I'm looking at getting a new
set
> of 8mm and want to cut them so they fit.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Brown
> 72 Cutlass Supreme
> 350/350
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:48:40 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

> My understanding of the EGR is to "reburn"  partially burned exhaust.

Not really.   The primary reason for EGR was to reduce peak combustion temps
and thus reduce the formation of NOx.

> eliminate the EGR by plugging the vacuum hose leading to it, install a
> cooler thermostat to keep the engine a little cooler (like a 180) and
> advance the timing 5 degrees or so.


I would NOT recommend this.  If you want to get rid of EGR, that is fine,
but you will have to recurve the distributor and retard the timing to avoid
destructive pinging on most '75 and later Olds V8's.  EGR has no impact at
WOT, and if the system is in good order, does not cause any real
driveability issues either.  As emission devices go, it isn't so bad.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:52:50 -0500 
From: james.zito@ps.ge.com
Subject: '68 Cutlass in Commercial

>From Greg B:
I'm watching the Phoenix Open golf tournament on ABC right now and they
just aired an ad for Macgregor Golf's "M455" irons. Aside from the name of
the club, the ad featured golfer Aaron Baddeley (the endorser) driving up
to a guy on a golf course in a nice scarlet '68 Cutlass convertible. Even
nicer were the 3 lovely ladies in the car with him...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn something like that might even get me interested in watching something
that is even more boring that watching paint dry.... at least that can give
you a buzzzz....

I love 68's 69's too bad the got a little confused.....they had 400's not
455's ......
But how bright can folks be that "take a tiny little ball and put it on top
of a great 
BIG HUGE ball and whack the sh*t out of it with a bent stick.....and then
they go 
chase it down.  And what do they do next the whack it again!! I say pick it
up and 
go home you won!!!"

Jim
69 442 conv
apologies to George Carlin.....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:09:49 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: What is a long small KE/KF pulley for/ from? 

From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: KE Pulley

It wouldn't happen to be a chrome plated pulley that was on e*ay recently
would it?

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
===============
I think I ended up w/ that one
His KE [which might be a KF- is there a 6-digit PN on it too?] I just went 
thru the stack o' pulleys assembling a similar set for another buyer, and 
saw several of them small diameter deep KE or KF's. I did not bother to 
record what their application is. Used to have all that in a database, lost 
to a HD crash I believe. That was like 2 computers ago. We did not have a CD 
writer back then, no way to back up lots of files.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out. 
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:15:43 -0800
From: "mitzm" <mitzm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

>
> seafoam?
>

So where do you get this stuff?   My 350 has been burning a qt every 500
miles of so for the last 100K miles so it might be getting crusty in there.
Runs pretty good but tends to knock when hot.

So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've ever
been to.

I've also heard of using Brake fluid or ATF in the same way (dribble in hot
engine while running, douse engine, wait, restart and drive).


Does any of this stuff really work???  (I've got plenty of ATF on hand)  I'm
kinda suspicious of the snake-oil aspect of this since most people can't
objectively check the before and after condition.


I figure I want to do this step (if it works) before trying Milton's diesel
oil ring reseating treatment.


Any first hand evidence out there which decarbonization processes actually
work???

Thanks,  Hans

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:01:52 -0500
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roc88ket" <roc88ket@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....


OK, time for me to chime in.
On my 350's intake, there is a device called a "thermal vacuum switch" which
was a device that supplied vacuum to the vacuum advance of the dist. 3
nipples: one from carb(ported), one from manifold, one to dist. During
normal temperatures the device would supply the ported vacuum from the carb
to the dist, but when the engine began to overheat, it would supply full
manifold vacuum to the distributor, advancing the timing and therefore
COOLING THE ENGINE. Thus, retarded timing causes excess heat.
Combustion chamber temperatures are extremely high at part throttle, and
surprisingly enough the exhaust gas is significantly cooler. EGR isn't there
to burn unburned particulates, that's what the catalytic converter is for,
and you're running only a very SMALL amount of exhaust gas back into the
engine. I wish I had my Doug Roe book in front of me, I recall that it had a
section on EGR. BTW...EGR ONLY activates in part throttle, NOT at full
throttle, so I have no idea how anyone can realize much WOT gain by plugging
the hose unless the EGR valve was causing a vacuum leak.
Chris

> Joe,
>
> My understanding of the EGR is to "reburn"  partially burned exhaust. I
> don't know how that could make an engine run cooler. Regardless, anytime
you
> advance timing, the car runs hotter. This can easily result in pinging
that
> can be bad for pistons over the long haul. My suggestion would be to
> eliminate the EGR by plugging the vacuum hose leading to it, install a
> cooler thermostat to keep the engine a little cooler (like a 180) and
> advance the timing 5 degrees or so. If your car can qualify for no annual
> inspections due to age, eliminate the cat as well in the exhaust. You
won't
> believe the difference.
>
> I have no knowledge of the EGR equipped vehicle running cooler. I'm no
> engineer but that makes no common sense.
>
> John Sanders
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:24:36 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, mitzm wrote:
> Any first hand evidence out there which decarbonization processes actually
> work???

Well, I can tell you that about 10 years ago, when I first got my '68, it
had lots of carbon in the combustion chambers. I bought a product - made
by Bardahl, I think - that you poured down the throat of the carb with the
engine running. You were supposed to time it so that the engine stalled
out just as the last of it went down the throat. Then you let it sit
overnight and the next day started it and once it warmed up gave it full
throttle.

I did just that the following day. Looking in the rearview mirror it
looked like I was running a poorly-adjusted diesel. A huge cloud of
pure-black smoke came out when I stood on it. I assume that was the carbon
departing. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:10:12 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Tool-wire hub caps

At 09:29 PM 1/31/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>I have won't work. just don't have time to spare for a dead run. Did find
>just about everything I needed for the 87 wagon should have it running in
>another week or two.   I took the 350 out of the wagon and put the 307 in,
>can I use the starter from the 350 on the 307. With what I got at the yard
>today the starters the last part I need, if I need one.   Bill G 67 Delta
>88 Custom 87 Custom Wagon 

No, the keys varied; they had a dozen or more variations. Dealerships do
have a "master" but it's often lost or misplaced and of course, not
available to the public. There is a notation stamped into the bolt head
that tells what key it matches.

The other problem is I believe the G-bodies have 14" wheels while your
full-sized B-body wagon has 15"; so if you didn't notice the tire size on
the G-body, you mitaswell forget 
about it since those covers are almost certainly the wrong size anyhow.

I've got the full set of wire wheel covers from my '88 wagon with keys that
I'm never gonna use again but they have some curb rash, and one is cracked
on the inside so won't stay in one place any longer; it rotates and cuts
off the valve stem.

Not sure bout the 350 starter; it might be physically larger than the 307
starter, I think Fred Nissen or Chris Carson will know for sure.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:47:55 -0500
From: "DanL" <danl@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Delta 88 question (1968)

Any help appreciated!!

Could someone please tell me if the steering gear box is located forward or
behind the 'A' frame on the '68 Delta?  In other words, is the gearing box
in the same location as on the '68 98?

Thanks in advance.

DanL
68 98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:53:47 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Starters, was: Tool-wire hub caps

> Yes, the starters are pretty much all the same,


The 350 starter is a larger and heavier unit than that used on most 307's
and 260's.  As long as you have no clearance issues, it will work fine on
the 307.  All RWD Olds have the same starter bolt pattern in the block.
Some starters do differ in the nose area, requiring different length bolts.
The noose on the earlier large case starters may not clear the plastic
flywheel dust cover on the later engines.  A bit of trimming with a suitable
implement will fix that.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:35:21 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Found that elusive 455 block, killed it too

At 10:05 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>"F1" on the rear face.
>The elusive "F1" "High Nickel" content block [another bullshirt 
>rumor, if ya ask me, anyhow]

I suspect it's BS, too. My '67 425 has F5 on its rear face. I heard from
someone else the F-code is just the casting mold that created that
particular block, which makes a lot more sense than it representing the
nickel content. My '88 307 block also has F5 IIRC.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:56:58 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

At 09:06 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>My understanding of the EGR is to "reburn"  partially burned exhaust.

No; that's an old mechanic's tale. GM clearly explains the function of EGR
as being to introduce inert gases into the mixture to cool the combustion
temperature and thus reduce the formation of oxides of Nitrogen. Joe had it
right as he stated it.

>...anytime you advance timing, the car runs hotter. This can easily 
>result in pinging that can be bad for pistons over the long haul.

The inert gases introduced cool the combustion enough to allow
further-advanced timing without pinging/knocking.

>My suggestion would be to eliminate the EGR by plugging the vacuum 
>hose leading to it, install a cooler thermostat to keep the engine 
>a little cooler (like a 180) and advance the timing 5 degrees or so. 

This would accomplish very little other than making the engine warm up more
slowly, and tend to ping much more easily.

>If your car can qualify for no annual inspections due to age, eliminate 
>the cat as well in the exhaust. You won't believe the difference.

A low-restriction cat won't cause enough power loss on a stock engine to
notice, particularly on a 260. Even when there's no annual inspections,
removal of the cat is always illegal.

>I have no knowledge of the EGR equipped vehicle running cooler. I'm no
>engineer but that makes no common sense.

Read the CSMs to find out how the system works. When in doubt, ALWAYS read
the book  ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:23:01 -0800 (PST)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Delta 88 question (1968)

Yes they r the same--rear steer. later. Ken
- --- DanL <danl@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Any help appreciated!!
> 
> Could someone please tell me if the steering gear
> box is located forward or
> behind the 'A' frame on the '68 Delta?  In other
> words, is the gearing box
> in the same location as on the '68 98?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> DanL
> 68 98
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:30:30 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

Well, I'm not really all that concerned about EGR in practice right now,
simply because the motor that's going into my project car is a 1972, and
thus EGR-less....

However....

At 01:01 PM 02/01/2004 -0500, Chris wrote:
>OK, time for me to chime in.
>On my 350's intake, there is a device called a "thermal vacuum switch" which
>was a device that supplied vacuum to the vacuum advance of the dist. 3
>nipples: one from carb(ported), one from manifold, one to dist. During
>normal temperatures the device would supply the ported vacuum from the carb
>to the dist, but when the engine began to overheat, it would supply full
>manifold vacuum to the distributor, advancing the timing and therefore
>COOLING THE ENGINE. Thus, retarded timing causes excess heat.
>Combustion chamber temperatures are extremely high at part throttle, and
>surprisingly enough the exhaust gas is significantly cooler.

I guess that might explain the thermal vacuum switch on my 1972 455.  No
EGR, but perhaps they were trying to tweak the distributor timing to
prevent overheating.

Anyway, I really just wanted to know more the theory of this whole thing,
and wondered if, for any future projects I might have, if I specifically
wanted to go for a non-EGR system or simply not worry about it and get any
decent engine I could.

Anyway, I definitely still would like to hear any more that anyone can add
to this...

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:42:15 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

  moonshine works great.
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "mitzm" <mitzm@earthlink.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:15 PM
  Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)


  > >
  > > seafoam?
  > >
  > 
  > So where do you get this stuff?   My 350 has been burning a qt every 500
  > miles of so for the last 100K miles so it might be getting crusty in there.
  > Runs pretty good but tends to knock when hot.
  > 
  > So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
  > top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've ever
  > been to.
  > 
  > I've also heard of using Brake fluid or ATF in the same way (dribble in hot
  > engine while running, douse engine, wait, restart and drive).
  > 
  > 
  > Does any of this stuff really work???  (I've got plenty of ATF on hand)  I'm
  > kinda suspicious of the snake-oil aspect of this since most people can't
  > objectively check the before and after condition.
  > 
  > 
  > I figure I want to do this step (if it works) before trying Milton's diesel
  > oil ring reseating treatment.
  > 
  > 
  > Any first hand evidence out there which decarbonization processes actually
  > work???
  > 
  > Thanks,  Hans
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:49:50 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

  i agree with steve.
  ron 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:56 AM
  Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....


  > At 09:06 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
  > >Joe,
  > >
  > >My understanding of the EGR is to "reburn"  partially burned exhaust.
  > 
  > No; that's an old mechanic's tale. GM clearly explains the function of EGR
  > as being to introduce inert gases into the mixture to cool the combustion
  > temperature and thus reduce the formation of oxides of Nitrogen. Joe had it
  > right as he stated it.
  > 
  > >...anytime you advance timing, the car runs hotter. This can easily 
  > >result in pinging that can be bad for pistons over the long haul.
  > 
  > The inert gases introduced cool the combustion enough to allow
  > further-advanced timing without pinging/knocking.
  > 
  > >My suggestion would be to eliminate the EGR by plugging the vacuum 
  > >hose leading to it, install a cooler thermostat to keep the engine 
  > >a little cooler (like a 180) and advance the timing 5 degrees or so. 
  > 
  > This would accomplish very little other than making the engine warm up more
  > slowly, and tend to ping much more easily.
  > 
  > >If your car can qualify for no annual inspections due to age, eliminate 
  > >the cat as well in the exhaust. You won't believe the difference.
  > 
  > A low-restriction cat won't cause enough power loss on a stock engine to
  > notice, particularly on a 260. Even when there's no annual inspections,
  > removal of the cat is always illegal.
  > 
  > >I have no knowledge of the EGR equipped vehicle running cooler. I'm no
  > >engineer but that makes no common sense.
  > 
  > Read the CSMs to find out how the system works. When in doubt, ALWAYS read
  > the book  ;o\
  > 
  > SteveH
  > 
  > 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:54:58 EST
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

- -------------------------------1075668898
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atf does work ........
i had a 72 442 that ran great ......bogged down around 55
1 qt atf in gas.....with full tank  run the heck out of it for a tank full
jeff  in atl,ga

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<DIV>atf does work ........</DIV>
<DIV>i had a 72 442 that ran great ......bogged down around 55</DIV>
<DIV>1 qt atf in gas.....with full tank&nbsp; run the heck out of it for a t=
ank full</DIV>
<DIV>jeff&nbsp; in atl,ga</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:06:51 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: '76 Cutlass Supreme Rear bumper needed

  1976 and 1977 are identicle suttle changes like grill lay out,tail light design, dash board is
1977 only  every thing interchanges
  ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
  To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:34 PM
  Subject: Re: '76 Cutlass Supreme Rear bumper needed


  > these are the closest ones. Seems like 77 is an interchange:
  >
  > 1976
  > Rear Bumper
  > Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme STRIP ONLY, NO GUARDS, SEE NOTES   GR0254 $250 GM Auto Parts USA-NE
(Lincoln) 1-800-535-4787
  >
  >
  > Rear Bumper
  > Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme 256676      256676 $Call East West Auto Parts, Inc. USA-OK (Tulsa)
1-800-447-2886
  >
  >
  > Rear Bumper
  > Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme 257777      257777 $Call East West Auto Parts, Inc. USA-OK (Tulsa)
1-800-447-2886
  >
  > 1977
  > Rear Bumper
  > Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme Cpe-      5540 $Call Mills Auto Parts USA-IN (Ft.-Wayne)
1-800-295-5833
  >
  > 1977
  > Rear Bumper
  > Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme WSHOCKS-DULL CHROME-LOCAL ONLY   NOF $Call Kramer's Auto Parts USA-NE
(Grand-Island) 1-800-652-9304
  >
  >
  > ---- oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:
  > > Ran into a guy at lunch today looking for a very clean rear bumper for a
  > > 76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham.
  > > He is in the Chicagoland area.  Any leads, please forward them to me and
  > > I will pass along.  Not looking to make anything on this myself, just
  > > trying to hook up a fellow enthusiast.
  > >
  > > Thanks and have a great weekend!
  > > -Rick
  > > 72 Cutlass Supreme Conv't
  > > 72 Cutlass Supreme
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:49:32 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: '68 Cutlass in Commercial

Hi Jim,

I'm not an avid golfer, but if the lovley ladies follow you through 18
holes? Hmmmmmm....If you've never whacked the little ball down the green,
even without the ladies, it is fun. Peaceful, sunshine, 6 pack, golf cart of
course. Try it with someone who plays and can "walk" you through the ins and
outs.
Pat.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <james.zito@ps.ge.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: '68 Cutlass in Commercial


> From Greg B:
> I'm watching the Phoenix Open golf tournament on ABC right now and they
> just aired an ad for Macgregor Golf's "M455" irons. Aside from the name of
> the club, the ad featured golfer Aaron Baddeley (the endorser) driving up
> to a guy on a golf course in a nice scarlet '68 Cutlass convertible. Even
> nicer were the 3 lovely ladies in the car with him...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
> Damn something like that might even get me interested in watching
something
> that is even more boring that watching paint dry.... at least that can
give
> you a buzzzz....
>
> I love 68's 69's too bad the got a little confused.....they had 400's not
> 455's ......
> But how bright can folks be that "take a tiny little ball and put it on
top
> of a great
> BIG HUGE ball and whack the sh*t out of it with a bent stick.....and then
> they go
> chase it down.  And what do they do next the whack it again!! I say pick
it
> up and
> go home you won!!!"
>
> Jim
> 69 442 conv
> apologies to George Carlin.....
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:55:21 -0600
From: "jbschuren" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

I saw it at a NAPA the other day.
You could order it online, I believe

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mitzm" <mitzm@earthlink.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)


> >
> > seafoam?
> >
>
> So where do you get this stuff?   My 350 has been burning a qt every 500
> miles of so for the last 100K miles so it might be getting crusty in
there.
> Runs pretty good but tends to knock when hot.
>
> So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
> top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've
ever
> been to.
>
> I've also heard of using Brake fluid or ATF in the same way (dribble in
hot
> engine while running, douse engine, wait, restart and drive).
>
>
> Does any of this stuff really work???  (I've got plenty of ATF on hand)
I'm
> kinda suspicious of the snake-oil aspect of this since most people can't
> objectively check the before and after condition.
>
>
> I figure I want to do this step (if it works) before trying Milton's
diesel
> oil ring reseating treatment.
>
>
> Any first hand evidence out there which decarbonization processes actually
> work???
>
> Thanks,  Hans
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:29:09 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

> So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
> top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've
ever
> been to.

Any GM dealer will stock this.  Some Delco jobbers and distributors have it
as well.  Great stuff.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:35:53 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: carbon removal (without disassembling the engine)

At 10:15 AM 2/1/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>So for removing carbon from a running engine I've heard of Seafoam and "GM
>top Engine Cleaner"   but never seen either in any autoparts store I've ever
>been to.

The GM TEC is available at almost any GM dealer, usually on their shelves
right behind the parts counter. Comes in either spray or bottle, blue and
white. Instructions say to pour most of it in slowly while holding throttle
open, then dump the last of the bottle to flood the engine. Let it soak
then start again. For many engines, it creates huge clouds of white smoke
but didn't do that when I tried it on my '88 fullsized wagon with 307.

One thing to watch is if you have a cat and the engine is really gummed up,
all the loose stuff could clog the cat. So if you're gonna be loosening and
removing the cat anytime soon, that'd be a better time to run the stuff.
Otherwise, I'd just go fairly slowly so maybe it won't loosen too much gunk
at once. OTOH, if you do that, it might not loosen enough gunk  ;o((((((

>I've also heard of using Brake fluid or ATF in the same way (dribble in hot
>engine while running, douse engine, wait, restart and drive).

Yes, an old mechanic's trick that also works. You can even use ordinary
water. In either case, it's a good idea to do this BEFORE you're gonna do
an oil change, and then run the engine another 15-30 minutes afterward to
try to get whatever residue is gonna, washed into the old oil before
changing it. Maybe do it the weekend before you do your oil change. And, of
course, if yer gwan change yer plugs, wait until after you run the schtuff
through the engine. But it often really cleans up your old plugs, too.

>Does any of this stuff really work???  (I've got plenty of ATF on hand)  I'm
>kinda suspicious of the snake-oil aspect of this since most people can't
>objectively check the before and after condition.

Yes, it does work although unless yer engine's really gummed up, you probly
won't tell much difference in performance. I did it once to one my older
cars with a V6, don't rember what it was, that had an obvious
poorly-seating valve (could hear it chuffing while cranking and a slight
lope while idling); musta been some schtuff stuck to the valve face because
the chuffing all but went away and the idle lope disappeared.

ALSO, just thought of something.... I don't think I'd use anything except
GM's TEC or another similar schtuff that says, right on the can/bottle,
that is safe for O2 sensors. ATF may well NOT be good for the O2 sensor, I
dunno. Of course, I know yer talking about a pre-emissions engine  :o))))

>I figure I want to do this step (if it works) before trying Milton's diesel
>oil ring reseating treatment.

I've been using Rotella for a cupla years now and am now getting around
2500 miles with the dipstick still looking somewhat yellow. Before, it'd be
black within 1000 miles. Haven't had a chance to look under a valve cover
or the lifter valley to see whether it's done any gunk-washing-away. If the
rings are already well-worn (as they probably are in my 230K-mile 307),
then you'll get enough leakage past them to dirty the oil anyway. I find my
oil stays cleaner, longer, during the warm months than during the cold
months. But I think my oil consumption has gone up, perhaps as a result of
running the engine harder to higher rpms over the past several years. And
it's just getting old, too  ;o((((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:44:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and timing, merits or lack thereof....

At 01:01 PM 2/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, time for me to chime in.
>On my 350's intake, there is a device called a "thermal vacuum 
>switch" which was a device that supplied vacuum to the vacuum 
>advance of the dist. 3 nipples: one from carb(ported), one from 
>manifold, one to dist. During normal temperatures the device would 
>supply the ported vacuum from the carb to the dist, but when the 
>engine began to overheat, it would supply full manifold vacuum to 
>the distributor, advancing the timing and therefore COOLING THE 
>ENGINE. Thus, retarded timing causes excess heat. 

Yes, that's also true; really-retarded timing will help cause an engine to
overheat. In the very early '70s, California's emissions aholes decided
that ALL older cars with vacuum advance had to be retrofitted with what
came to be known as the "Echlin device". This was a TVS mounted in a brass
cylinder that was to be placed in your radiator hose. It prevented vacuum
advance to the distributor until the coolant temp was over 220 degrees.
Killed both performance and gas mileage. It was universally-abhorred. You
Californians may still find one sitting on an old car's upper radiator hose
in a Yarde  ;o\

>EGR isn't there to burn unburned particulates, that's what the 
>catalytic converter is for, and you're running only a very SMALL 
>amount of exhaust gas back into the engine.

Right.

>I wish I had my Doug Roe book in front of me, I recall that it had a
>section on EGR. BTW...EGR ONLY activates in part throttle, NOT at 
>full throttle, so I have no idea how anyone can realize much WOT gain 
>by plugging the hose unless the EGR valve was causing a vacuum leak.

Right. In fact (at least for the systems with which I'm familiar), EGR is
connected to the carb's ported vacuum source, which means it doesn't begin
supplying vacuum until the throttle is just past idle (around 1500 rpm in
Park/Neutral). The ported vacuum disappears at WOT so the EGR valve closes
again.

EGR does almost nothing to decrease performance so there's little reason to
disconnect it. In fact, carbs are set up from the factory to compensate for
the slight leaning from EGR so you may find you LOSE part-throttle
performance if you eliminate your EGR.

SteveH

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4762
*********************************
