
oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, March 10 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4812



RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
Re: Engine knocking
Intake Bolts and others
Dipstick Interference
RE: bearing rolling
Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442
Re: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442
Re: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442
buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
Re: bearing rolling
Re: Protect-O-Plate decode
Re: Protect-O-Plate decode
Re: bearing rolling
HTML mail is a Bad Thing (was Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette)
f/s- 4-Jet carb, G-body T-Tops, etc.
Dumb Q of the day, how to put Chebby into an Olds
Tractor/Car auction in Pa.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:11:49 -0500
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

I sent the message about the VIN to the High Bidder.  I left out the part
about the copyright stuff, just because the buyer probably could care less
about where the wording came from, all he's going to care about is that the
car is not what it says it is.

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
eVil = Beemer66 (since 1/99, 90 positives - 0 negatives)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Green [mailto:acg_o@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:59 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
> 
> 
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2464099361
> &category=15287
> 
> No reply from the seller as of right now. Would someone with 
> an eVil site 
> account like to send a note to the purchaser (link available 
> on the sale 
> page above) stating what we've learned? From yesterday's email to the 
> seller:
> 
> The VIN of 336878M299810 for what is claimed to be a 1968 
> Olds 442 actually 
> identifies it as a Cutlass, according to the VIN decoder page at 
> http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/vin. (The 442 VIN code 
> should begin 
> with 34487.)
> 
> In addition, large portions of the text of that ad have been 
> lifted from the 
> copyrighted page at 
> http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmob
ile-442.shtml.

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:25:28 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

first off the auto hoby shop has the correct tools, i lived in the one at nas oceana. in va bch va. next useing theblocks of wood and barup top i ran the chain around the bar then bolted it to engine.
ron
> Well,
> 
> Next time Ill just read the list all the way through.  You never know who
> has the same issues you do.  Im working with a situation where I dont have
> an engine puller, nor do I have an engine stand.  Im in the Marine Corps out
> here in Hawaii, and can't guarantee that the Auto Hobby Shop on base has
> what I need, nor do I trust leaving it there overnight or for a few days
> (not that I think we jarheads steal, but things do tend to get reacquired
> from time to time).  Ron, your advice looks sound, but what is the engine
> chained too??  And where do I get this neoprene seal?  I remember hearing
> something about a Fr0d seal, is that correct?
> 
> Chris Brown
> 72 Cutlass Supreme
> Hopefully running some day.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> 
> 
> > rolling mean that  after you install the nail you turn the crank slowly
> and the olds brg rolls out,

> > the new one is then place on crank journel and slid as far as possiable
> you may have to apply prsi
> > on the brg half as you rotate crank . in some cases it can be a real pain.
> on the back side of brg
> > is the brg size, is original it just has p/n if undersized it will have
> 0.010  or approperate size.
> >  thats the purpose of the list is to help each other and talk  about our
> cars. we may get off topic
> > and not allways agree but  it just goes to show we are just individuals
> with our own opinions and
> > knowledge.
> >  you are welcome.
> > i have learned alot about performance from this list. milton has awsome
> knowledge, just like many
> > others
> > good luck. if you need to ask a quistion and cant wait for list response
> call me at 732-986-6388
> > thats my cell.
> > take care
> > ron
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> >
> >

> > > Thanks Ron!!!! Man if you have any Comfortron issues, you just let me
> > > know ;-) Ill run through hell or high water to get you an answer lol. A
> > > message like this is exactly what Im looking for. I dont have any
> > > friends or family that work on cars as much as you guys, so I dont have
> > > anyone to ask questions when things like this happen. I am going to try
> > > to do it your way probably this weekend or the next one. One question
> > > though...I know the bottom half of the bearing will probably drop out
> > > when I drop the caps, but how would I get the top half of the bearing
> out?
> > >
> > > Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know im a
> > > novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant do
> > > this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the
> world.
> > >
> > > paulbunyan
> > >
> > > 77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >do not under any cicumstances  DO NOT remove all the mains at once,
> > > >hers how i do it

> > > >place large hunk of carboaed ubder car  raise  car.position stands out
> of the way,
> > > >drain oil remove filter, leaving it drip for a while 30-60min.
> > > >install drain plug and tighten, disconect battery remove starter, on my
> car with headers i have
> > to raise engine and remove engine mounts i use a two 4*4 one on each side
> of each fender  with a
> > notch in each block to prevent 3/8 home gas pipe and chain secured to
> engine  usually a/c bracket
> > and alt bracket. i also have wedges cut to fit between frame and lower
> flange of headers just in
> > case. i then remove pan.remove oil pumpand pick up tube.
> > > >loosen all the mains after stampint the main and rod caps. i then pull
> each main first, if they
> > are are all good no signs of any irregularities i then snug the main caps.
> then i check each rod
> > brg, again must be smooth. i then remove  brgs one at a time and torque
> the main caps after each brg
> > is installed.be careful to install the caps  correctley, use assembly lube

> on new brgs before
> > installing them. keep hands clean and clean crank with break clean.
> > > >i use lint free rags and snake them around the journels to wipe them
> down.
> > > >you may need to insetrt a object in the oil hole in the crank to roll
> brg out, i use a nail with
> > a head thickness i/2 of brg  thickness, the thrust brg usually is the
> biggest pain. once thats done
> > on all except number 5 . i change the rope seal to the neopreme type, then
> roll that brg,   then do
> > the rods
> > > >reassemble fill with oil and fill oil filter with oil  dis able
> ignition crank it over a few
> > times to ensure oil is pumped into the brgs then i fire it up and let it
> warm up. listen for noises
> > and if all is well i let it down and take it for a drive.
> > > >remember  keep it clean. any dirt/foriegn matter can kill the brgs in a
> short period.
> > > >did i miss anything guys
> > > >ron
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Thanks!!!! Just the type of answer I was looking for. Too bad I dont

> > > >>know what rolling the bearings mean, but I am assuming it means to
> > > >>install the bearings with the crank dropped but the engine still in
> the
> > > >>car??? (am i right lol) But thanks again, maybe I wont have to by a
> new
> > > >>engine after all. Im thinking the machine shop'll replace the rings,
> > > >>bearings, etc for under $500...so If I can save the crank all ill have
> > > >>to windup spending is the money for a rebuild kit and the machining
> > > >>costs. I guess the first thing I should do is drop the crank and look
> at
> > > >>the bearing journals???
> > > >>
> > > >>paulbunyan
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes
> lower oil
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>psi. i have driven  some
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas
> and others
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>blew in days.
> > > >>
> > > >>

> > > >>>its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank
> is smooth
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>and no ridges on
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>journals
> > > >>>ron
> > > >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >>>From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> > > >>>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > > >>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
> > > >>>Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> > > >>>>looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it
> to
> > > >>>>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it
> mess
> > > >>>>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> > > >>>>paulbunyan
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a
> daily

> > > >>>>>driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used
> engine
> > > >>>>>is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know
> what your
> > > >>>>>getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours
> will take
> > > >>>>>a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>>>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > > >>>>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> > > >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> > > >>>>>To: Oldsmobile
> > > >>>>>Subject: Engine knocking
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>All,
> > > >>>>>Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask
> the
> > > >>>>>list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I
> heard
> > > >>>>>the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> > > >>>>>screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the
> bottom as

> > > >>>>>well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking.
> The
> > > >>>>>knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the
> valve
> > > >>>>>covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im
> thinking I
> > > >>>>>spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> > > >>>>>should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get
> fixed.
> > > >>>>>Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save
> this
> > > >>>>>engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth
> taking
> > > >>>>>to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on
> having
> > > >>>>>to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the
> knocking
> > > >>>>>noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or
> anything. I
> > > >>>>>will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its
> probably

> > > >>>>>trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the
> machine
> > > >>>>>shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of
> my
> > > >>>>>neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his
> parts
> > > >>>>>and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any
> trouble yet.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>paulbunyan
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> >
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:41:28 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

actually have way threw the job you will know what the brand oil you use taste like.i prefer castrol lol
ron
> I expect that about halfway through this job, you'll wish you'd pulled the 
> engine.  But no problem.  If you run out of good cuss words to use, drop me 
> an email.  LOL
> 
> At 11:35 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Paul Bunyan wrote:
> >Thanks Ron!!!! Man if you have any Comfortron issues, you just let me know 
> >;-) Ill run through hell or high water to get you an answer lol. A message 
> >like this is exactly what Im looking for. I dont have any friends or 
> >family that work on cars as much as you guys, so I dont have anyone to ask 
> >questions when things like this happen. I am going to try to do it your 
> >way probably this weekend or the next one. One question though...I know 
> >the bottom half of the bearing will probably drop out when I drop the 
> >caps, but how would I get the top half of the bearing out?
> >
> >Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know im a 
> >novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant do this 
> >so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the world.
> >
> >paulbunyan
> 
> Mark Mullins
> Tucson, Az
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:44 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Intake Bolts and others

Hello me,
	Well I got the length of the intake & Exhaust bolts, in case anyone
beside me was interested:  3/8-16 X 1.25".
Steve Reed
================
1) there are shorty, long, and studded type Intake to Head bolts
They are all 3/8-16

2) 1.25 might be the shortstops, but no the longboys for sure.

I am concocting a list of Olds Engine-related fasteners, and a photo file of 
the head markings.  There are about 150-160 fasteners on and about the 
[1968] engine alone. Shoot, there's 34 just of the rocker cover/ oil pan 
1/4" units. All have some special feature it seems.

try to find a thick washer like used on intake and exhaust. Not even 
McMaster-Carr has EXACTLY the same thing. I could not even find it listed in 
the parts manual by looking up "washer" or by finding intake to head bolts, 
and perusing that general area. You AZ guys, stockpile them fat washers.....
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:23:16 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Dipstick Interference

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:51:36 -0600
From: "Marty Henson" <marty-henson@clayton-engineering.com>
Subject: Dipstick Interference

I've encountered between the transmission dipstick and
the heater control valve which mounts on the right rear of the intake
manifold.  The motor was originally a 350 and I'm changing to a 455.
With the dipstick mounted to the rear of the passenger head, it is
immediately below the heater valve making it practically impossible to
remove. The transmission is a TH400. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
Marty Henson
===============
Uhm, get a dipstick and tube for the chassis and engine that you have, 
maybe?
There are more than a few variations of trans tubes.

Barring that, bend your present tube to suit? [Mechanics do a LOT of bending 
stuff out of the way... usually quite rudely.]
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:41:36 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: bearing rolling

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:20:19 -0600
From: "Marty Henson" <marty-henson@clayton-engineering.com>
Subject: RE: bearing rolling

I can't hold out anymore from putting in my two cents.  I don't believe
anyone can properly check and replace rod and main bearings with the
engine still in the car. The most likely problem is with the oil pump or
crankshaft journals for it to be losing oil pressure and knocking. I
suspect that you'll be repairing the engine in the near future, if you
don't pull it out and rebuild it.  Remember Murphy's Law.
Marty - '72 Cutlass
==================
Oh, it's possible, allright. Factory manual typicaly shows the use of a 
cotter pin inserted into the crank's oiling hole, with legs spread apart 
along the journal surface. Might have to flatten cotter head to get it into 
the hole nicely. Hole is at angle, of course, so your cotter/ nail/ whatever 
must accomodate that angle.

Indeed, if the bearings are bad, but journals are OK or OK-ish.... and you 
just need it running NOW and CHEAP, it's a great trick. It can work. Get 
this:

I was selling off a pc of crap Pontiac I had a few yrs ago. Put in generic 
Olds 350. Ran ok, needed to be cleaned out. tried the ATF flush, still down 
on power a bit. How about a hiway run to loosen her up? 2 miles into the 
hiway run, she got hot, lost power, stopped. [2nd gear ~60-70 mph, not 
exactly outside the expected operational parameters...]. Engine siezed.  :-(

Walk to phone [pre-cell days]- call home, get ride/ tow home. Cooled down, 
still tight engine. Lifted engine as much as constraints allowed, pulled 
pan, pulled bearings, found a couple smeared units. Not too bad. Journals 
OK-ish. Stuck strip of emery paper up there and polished the journals. Put 
in new bearings. Just replaced the bad ones. Musta been rods bearings. #7-8 
I think. Motor just-right loose now. Reassemble, test run with nice new oil, 
NO PROBLEMS. Sold car shortly after that, only problem was with starter 
intermittent operation, which was due to lack of proper GROUND due to 
leaving off the SUPPORT STRAP [also serves as ground path in caseof dirty 
shell/ nose piece - which this one had]. Car was seen about town for many 
months, merrily chugging away.

They survive perhaps not because, but in spite of what we do to them.

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:50:07 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98

From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98

Did the '67's have the VIN deriviative stamped on the block?
==============================
No, BUT, they did indeed have an engine APPLICATION and unit number stamp on 
the front of the RH head, which will probably be G######__ for a 442 engine. 
Then again, the head could be stamped for the 98 application... and the 
thing was special ordered, or else perhaps the HEADS are original to the car 
but the BLOCK asm. was replaced along the line- in that case, no, there is 
no way to ascertain which BLOCK from 1967 came in what car. Heads should 
have the application code though. If you have the car's Protecto-Plate, it 
might list the Engine Unit Number and Trans Unit Number as well. Is the 
original Switch Pitch TH400 still in? if not, engine swap more likely.

Double check- that "E" might just be an "F" - 396021 455 block- been there, 
done that.
=====================================================
At 07:56 AM 3/9/2004 -0800, Kenneth Treham wrote:
>  Now the
>mystery, E-block, (not D or F) C-heads 4/barrel.  So,
>did they put 400's in the 98's?  Was it an option? We
>don't think the engine was ever change. Later, Ken
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:53:15 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:47:21 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Does it still have the 442 in it?
========================
ROTFLMAO!!!

Is that a "Forty-Four Two" or a "Four Forty-Two" or a "Four Four Two" ???

Wait, didn't  the W31's come with a 331, one notch less [on each digit] than 
a 442?  It's so confusing! Does it have the iron intake or the magnesium 
one? UHV or HEI?

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech 
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:16:58 -0600
From: "jbschuren" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442

come on now..... that's just not fair :)

I don't think a day goes by where I'm not asked if it has a "442" in it....
I don't laugh... I just explain the 4-4-2 thing, then I tell them that it
has a Rocket 350.....

usual response:  "oh, like a chevy 350?

My response: " not at all, this is pure olds and unlike a chevy 350, it
hasn't needed to be rebuilt in 30+ years"


JB Schuren
71Cutlass Conv Rocket 350 w/HEI.
03 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi QC
http://foggy.audioguy.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Cc: <mark@marineaviation.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:53 AM
Subject: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442


> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:47:21 -0700
> From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
> Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
>
> Does it still have the 442 in it?
> ========================
> ROTFLMAO!!!
>
> Is that a "Forty-Four Two" or a "Four Forty-Two" or a "Four Four Two" ???
>
> Wait, didn't  the W31's come with a 331, one notch less [on each digit]
than
> a 442?  It's so confusing! Does it have the iron intake or the magnesium
> one? UHV or HEI?
>
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech
> Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:56:49 -0500
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: today's good laugh- the '68 W31 442

At Thursday, 11 March 2004, you wrote:
>usual response:  "oh, like a chevy 350?
>
>My response: " not at all, this is pure olds and unlike a 
>chevy 350, it hasn't needed to be rebuilt in 30+ years"

There ye go, MY kinda engine guy  :o)))))))

I've had the same kinda conversation re: the Olds 307 in my full-
sized 1988 Ch*bby wagon (called the BBA, for "blue boat anchor" or 
"BIG boat anchor"  ;o); everyone always assumes it's a Ch*bby engine 
and is confounded when I correct them. Unfortunately, even after 
informing them the thing hasn't even had to have the valve covers 
removed during its 235K miles, they don't seem impressed. But if 
it were a CH*BBY engine, I bet they would be  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

Sometime, I would really love to make some plastic emblems to plunk 
on the tailgate above that obscene "Ch*brolette" emblem, saying "It's 
NOT a..."  :o)))))))))

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:26:25 -0800
From: "John Holt sr" <johnlholtsr@hotmail.com>
Subject: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

<html><div style='background-color:'><P>I concur on your findings Milton. Had a 93 Lumina APV mini van with a 3.1 that had a leak&nbsp;right behind the front head, behind the distributor. Like a sieve, (very well put) how about a quart every couple hundred miles as I recall. I just kept putting oil in it till it blew the head gaskets, then&nbsp;I sold it for 600$. At that point it had 220K miles and I wasnt about to spend any $ on it.</P>
<DIV><STRONG><U>John</U></STRONG></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2734??PS=">Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer)</a> </html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:34:07 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: bearing rolling

Except that on my first '67 Delta 88, I lost the engine because someone
rolled bearings into place. Apparently, the 425 had a bad rod bearing set on
one rod journal. He did a sub-Mexican rebuild and rolled all new rod
bearings only into the engine. Two weeks after buying the car, I started to
have the oil light come on at idle. The next day, as I rolled up to a stop
light, the engine quit. She locked. The starter wouldn't budge her. The rod
bearings on that journal failed and spun, locking up the crank. For the
rebuild, the crank and both rods on that journal had to be replaced.

No, the seller never told me he had a problem on that rod journal.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

p.s. The term, "Mexican rebuild," was first applied to aircraft
reciprocating engines. It means taking a tired engine, stripping it down,
replacing all the bearings, rings, and gaskets without doing ***any***
machine work, and then reassembling the engine and running it. Needless to
say, the FAA and the CAB before it frowned on Mexican rebuilds. A Mexican
Plus adds a valve job. A Sub-Mexican is bearings or rings only.

> Oh, it's possible, allright. Factory manual typicaly shows the use of a
> cotter pin inserted into the crank's oiling hole, with legs spread apart
> along the journal surface. Might have to flatten cotter head to get it
into
> the hole nicely. Hole is at angle, of course, so your cotter/ nail/
whatever
> must accomodate that angle.
>
> Indeed, if the bearings are bad, but journals are OK or OK-ish.... and you
> just need it running NOW and CHEAP, it's a great trick. It can work. Get
> this:
>
> I was selling off a pc of crap Pontiac I had a few yrs ago. Put in generic
> Olds 350. Ran ok, needed to be cleaned out. tried the ATF flush, still
down
> on power a bit. How about a hiway run to loosen her up? 2 miles into the
> hiway run, she got hot, lost power, stopped. [2nd gear ~60-70 mph, not
> exactly outside the expected operational parameters...]. Engine siezed.
:-(
>
> Walk to phone [pre-cell days]- call home, get ride/ tow home. Cooled down,
> still tight engine. Lifted engine as much as constraints allowed, pulled
> pan, pulled bearings, found a couple smeared units. Not too bad. Journals
> OK-ish. Stuck strip of emery paper up there and polished the journals. Put
> in new bearings. Just replaced the bad ones. Musta been rods bearings.
#7-8
> I think. Motor just-right loose now. Reassemble, test run with nice new
oil,
> NO PROBLEMS. Sold car shortly after that, only problem was with starter
> intermittent operation, which was due to lack of proper GROUND due to
> leaving off the SUPPORT STRAP [also serves as ground path in caseof dirty
> shell/ nose piece - which this one had]. Car was seen about town for many
> months, merrily chugging away.
>
> They survive perhaps not because, but in spite of what we do to them.
>
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech
> Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:09:33 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Protect-O-Plate decode

> Protect-O-Plate:  20-266 

Original selling dealer code

>  05-24-72

Original delivery date
 
> 3J67K2M223931 

VIN, don't have a decoder in front of me.  Cutlass convertible?  Lansing built.

> 00009

Delivery mileage

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:26:16 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Protect-O-Plate decode

62oldsfan@comcast.net wrote:
> 
>>3J67K2M223931 

If it's a 1972 then according to Drew:
3 = Oldsmobile Duh!
J = (4200) Cutlass Supreme
67 = Convertible
K = 350 4 bbl (L34)
2 = 1972
M = Lansing
223931 = sequence number

http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/vin/

HTH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:27:46 -0500
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: bearing rolling

All,

Thanks for all the repplies! Its always good to hear it from both sides 
of a debate. I will be trying to roll the bearings soon. If I mess it up 
oh well, I will only be outta the cost of the bearings and I was 
planning on buying a whole motor anyways. Also, I just found out I might 
have a place to park my car so I might be able to pull the engine and do 
it the other way lol. I was reading in my CSM last night, and I was 
surprised that they DO talk about rolling bearings. I mean the engine is 
out of the car but they say use something or a cotter pin (I noticed 
somebody mentioned it in one of the earlier replies) to roll the 
bearings out. I noticed the tang too ;-) Thanks again guys, I will 
definately let everyone know how it goes

paulbunyan

77w30442@comcast.net wrote:

>i have done this several times on high mileage cars and trucks.  yes you can not mike the crank and
>you can not garentee it will work. but in most of my experience its due just to wear,the brg did not
>damage anything. new brgs and pump and pick up and clean the pan ,
>we have a customer with a 1969 olds 88 with a 455  two brg rolls in its 326,451 miles and it still
>runs strong. 35 psi at idle hot.
>like i said to each his own
>ron
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Marty Henson" <marty-henson@clayton-engineering.com>
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:20 PM
>Subject: RE: bearing rolling
>
>
>  
>
>>I can't hold out anymore from putting in my two cents.  I don't believe
>>anyone can properly check and replace rod and main bearings with the
>>engine still in the car. The most likely problem is with the oil pump or
>>crankshaft journals for it to be losing oil pressure and knocking. I
>>suspect that you'll be repairing the engine in the near future, if you
>>don't pull it out and rebuild it.  Remember Murphy's Law.
>>Marty - '72 Cutlass
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of John Kelsey
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:30 PM
>>To: olds list
>>Subject: bearing rolling
>>
>>snip   Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know
>>
>>im a novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant
>>do this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the
>>
>>world.
>>
>>Paul
>>    I've been following this thread and thought maybe an explanation
>>from someone else might help. Get the oil pan off, Unbolt the rod
>>bearings,   (I usually do one at a time) Ease the bearing cap off. It
>>may or may not have half of the bearing in it. If It does not reach up
>>with your fingers and pull/pry the lower half of the bearing out and set
>>
>>it aside. Now the journal will have an oil hole in it. You will need a
>>nail or a screw which will just fit into that oil hole. The head on the
>>nail or screw should be no thicker than the bearing. You may have to
>>grind it down a little to achieve that. Now turn the crank gently and
>>the head of that nail/screw will ease the top half of the bearing out
>>where you can get to it. You can usually just slip them back in.
>>Remember they are slightly keyed on one end so they will only go in one
>>way. I hope  you remembered to check the orientation of the bearing cap
>>so you can reinstall it facing the right way. I always use plenty of
>>assembly lube (available at any good parts store)
>>Good luck and post again if any of this doesn't make sense to you
>>John Kelsey
>>Dayton Ohio
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:07:01 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: HTML mail is a Bad Thing (was Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette)

On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 08:26:25AM -0800, John Holt sr wrote:
> <html><div style='background-color:'><P>I concur on your findings Milton. Had a 93 Lumina APV mini van with a 3.1 that had a leak&nbsp;right behind the front head, behind the distributor. Like a sieve, (very well put) how about a quart every couple hundred miles as I recall. I just kept putting oil in it till it blew the head gaskets, then&nbsp;I sold it for 600$. At that point it had 220K miles and I wasnt about to spend any $ on it.</P>
> <DIV><STRONG><U>John</U></STRONG></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2734??PS=">Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer)</a> </html>

The above is how your mail shows up here.  Could you PLEASE fix your mail
settings to send plain text?  The list thanks you in advance. :-)

  _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
 / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:41:30 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: f/s- 4-Jet carb, G-body T-Tops, etc.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=*the*rocketscientist&since=30&sort=8&rows=25

to see it all
Thanks for looking

G-body shifter
G-body T-tops
1961 Starfire "4-Jet" carb, brand new, $300 delivered to your door E of the 
Big River
1979 Toronado trunk lock and misc. lot
Big valve B heads from 1966 Toronado
used timing cover, timing tabs, etc.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:26:01 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Dumb Q of the day, how to put Chebby into an Olds

Hi,
   people have asked me so I'm asking you, what is required to put a 
Chevy engine into an Olds?  Conversely, if you buy an Olds with
a Chevy engine what do you need to restore it to proper running
order?

   Mostly I'm interested in what they do with the engine mounts, do they
change both the frame pads and the engine mounts or do Chebby mounts fit
certain Olds frame pads?  Since the frame is generic, are the holes
already drilled in the frame for  brand C pads?

    I would assume (yes I know what the makes me :) the transmission
should simply require the correct cross member location.  That leaves 
exhaust, and cooling plumbing.

TIA
- -- 

Cliff "This sig intentionally left blank." Simpson & Kermit
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:31:35 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Tractor/Car auction in Pa.

- -------------------------------1078950694
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Near Lancaster, Pa.? Supposed to be a Tractor/Car Auction Saturday, 3/13  
somewhere along Rte. 30 in the Amish country. Anybody know about it?


Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92 Eldo

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Near&nbsp;Lancaster, Pa.? Supposed to be a Tractor/Car Auction Saturday=
, 3/13 &nbsp;somewhere along Rte. 30 in the Amish country. Anybody know abou=
t it?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190=
 SL Conv.<BR>92 Eldo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1078950694--

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4812
*********************************
