
oldsmobile-digest      Thursday, March 11 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4814



Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
Re: Tractor/Car auction in Pa.
FW: The guts of a Muncie
One Man brake bleeder
Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws
Instruction on Determining Pushrod Length with Adjustable Pushrod
Re: The guts of a Muncie
Fuel pump delivery rate?
Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws
Re: Instruction on Determining Pushrod Length with Adjustable Pushrod
RE: The guts of a Muncie
RE: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
Good deal on price & shipping of Optima Battery
Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
Re: FW: The guts of a Muncie
RE: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette
RE: FW: The guts of a Muncie
Re: Fuel pump delivery rate?
Re: The guts of a Muncie
Re: One Man brake bleeder
rebuild
Re: paging "swanny"
Re: rebuild
RE: FW: The guts of a Muncie
Re: Fuel pump delivery rate?
Re: rebuild
Re: Home electrical problems....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

> I think its fair to say that the aluminum V6's may be characterized as
> poorly designed.


Correct. The idiots put the intake bolts straight up, instead of
perpendicular to the head surface on the intake side. The differenial
pressure caused by the angle of the bolt's torque vector causes uneven
torque distribution on the gasket. The reason it was done was to make it
easier for a mechanic to replace the intake manifold on a engine sitting
crossways in a FWD, with the intake bolts sitting straight up. If the engine
had been designed correctly in the first place, there wouldn't have been any
reason for a mechanic to worry about it to begin with. The GM engineers
designed in a self-fulfilling prophecy.


 I too LOVE my Olds stuff, but I'm compelled to stick up
> for my '96 Caprice 9c1 - at 215,000 km it remains a solid car.
> With regard to longevity and reliability, my main point and experience
> is that the drivetrain is about as tough as anything out there.


Because she has a small block Chevy, which has been around so long, it's
even hard for the current GM to screw that up.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:42:34 -0500
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws

  Hey Milton,
   Well as you may have guessed, the balance the motor in the car routine
was pure
carp...  so with the help of all the info here, I set out to find what was
making shake.
Did the tune up thing, plugs, rebuilt Roch, new cap, rotor, timing... little
better, but not the cure...  so, going on the fact that the 442 flywheel was
in balance... (guess here), I checked the flexplate that came off.... it
looks to have a 2 oz weight on it, by looking at the v groove in the crank,
the weight was on the opposite side of the H.B. now the flywheel from the
442 is drilled for 10 1/2 or 11" clutch set... take the extra holes drilled
and taped, place a bolt in and fire her up....  the shake is much better,
okay, try another bolt....  damn... it's gone.....  shake no more, I can put
a cup of coffee on the fender and it stays put. Now would I ever take her to
the drags... NO, but sure is nice to go from JetAway 2 speed to a M20 4
speed... :-) Do I know that this is not the cure all, sure, and maybe
someday I will have to get the whole thing down right, but for now, I see no
reason to change a thing...  I could be wrong, but this car never takes a
betting, and the motor only has 4k on rebuild.....
john


> > the shake is gone!!!  yahoo
>
>
> So, what was it?
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:52:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Andy,

> Is that driver's side hose even _connected_ to anything? Isn't that
> air-cleaner housing supposed to have two identical snorkels on it at 4:00
> o'clock and 8 o'clock? I can see only a passenger's-side snorkel in those
> photos, yet this is supposed to be all-original.


I pointed that out before. The air cleaner looks wrong. That's part of the
reason I was coming down so hard on the jerk seller.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:54:58 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

> I
> suppose Fred N. could add something to the stats on warranty work on
> this platform.

- ----------------------

Other than the idiotic Opitspark, these are pretty bulletproof.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Right, I wonder why the Aitch did they ever go to that?? 
Ian Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:21:19 -0500
From: "Fred Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

> Other than the idiotic Opitspark, these are pretty bulletproof.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Right, I wonder why the Aitch did they ever go to that??

Just a guess, but I'd bet it was at least partially due to clearance issues
in the Corvette.   If that isn't it, they are even dumber than I thought.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:33:38 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Tractor/Car auction in Pa.

> Near Lancaster, Pa.? Supposed to be a Tractor/Car Auction Saturday, 3/13  
> somewhere along Rte. 30 in the Amish country. Anybody know about it?

There's a spring "mud sale" in Gordonville on Saturday.  That's right in that area.  Gordonville is near Intercourse and Paradise (really!), for those who are interested.  Don't know about tractors/cars specifically.  Here's what I found on the 'net.

"Mud Sale is the Lancaster County term for an annual auction/sale at one of a number of local fire companies. The sales, appropriately named for the condition of the thawing ground, attract thousands of people looking for bargains on anything from quilts and antique milk bottles to lumber, buggies, and manure spreaders.

Most sales begin at 8:30am sharp, but activities continue throughout the day for those who wish to catch a glimpse of some local color and enjoy sampling traditional Lancaster County farm fare."

"March 13
Gordonville - Spring Mud Sale & Auction
The largest firemen's auction/sale on the East Coast, featuring Amish quilts, crafts, furniture, antiques, tools & more. We auction horses, mules, farm equipment-both horse drawn & mechanical, buggies, farm-related items, furniture-both new & used, antiques, collectibles, shrubs, trees, lawn & garden equipment, lawn furniture, 500-600 quilts. All types of crafts, food - fruit, meats, cheeses, hay, straw, corn, utility sheds, barns, utility trailers, & construction equipment. *Note - there are no building supplies or lumber at this auction, they are sold at our fall auction. More info: 717-768-3869. Gordonville Fire Company, Old Leacock Road, Gordonville, PA"

Go here: http://www.padutch.com/z/gordonvillefireco.htm for the sale bill.  

Randy Geisel must know about these sales, as they already had the one in Honey Brook.  Must be a Lancaster County thing.  I'm a bit north of him and we don't have them.  We have fire company sales, but they aren't called mud sales.

Your geography lesson for today...

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:42:59 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: FW: The guts of a Muncie

Question for all those who know a thing or two about Muncie manual
4spds.  Thinking about using one in my 455'd hotrod.

I inspected an M20 (on my buddies' garage floor) last night by prising
the side plate off and removing the shift assembly.  We then got a good
look at the gears.  

I tried to note the condition of the trans.  Everything looked good, no
flecks of metal in the fluid, good fluid color, no deposits, no overt
grinding when the assembly was spun. The brass rings specific for each
gear with the the tiny knobs that look like miniature houses - what are
they/what's their function?  These ones appeared to be all in pretty
good shape with equal wear in all except for the ring that looked like
it was associated with first gear.  That one, the "houses" were more
worn so that the "walls" were shorter than the others.  Is that normal
wear?  

This M20 wide-ratio had a drain-plug.  I thought only M22's had drain
plugs?

I've heard that Muncie's will bolt to a BOP-style bell plate from
several manual trans types.  True or False?

Finaly, I couldn't believe how small the case was.  And how light. 

Thanks,
Ian Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:07:18 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: One Man brake bleeder

Best one is the MityVac hand held vacuum pump. Works great, and costs
about $30.

Can also be used to test vacuum components. 

Buy the one with the vacuum gauge on it.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
Oca # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:14:21 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws

John,

> so, going on the fact that the 442 flywheel was
> in balance... (guess here),


Didn't the 442 flywheel have a balance weight cast into the engine side? It
should have.


> I checked the flexplate that came off.... it
> looks to have a 2 oz weight on it, by looking at the v groove in the
crank,
> the weight was on the opposite side of the H.B. now the flywheel from the
> 442 is drilled for 10 1/2 or 11" clutch set... take the extra holes
drilled
> and taped, place a bolt in and fire her up....  the shake is much better,
> okay, try another bolt....  damn... it's gone.....  shake no more,


You were out of balance. You were lucky and were able to compensate.


> but for now, I see no
> reason to change a thing...


You should be fine now. Going by fender shake was valid.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:15:58 -0600
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Instruction on Determining Pushrod Length with Adjustable Pushrod

All,
	Well I'm finally getting back to project '70 C/S Ragtop.  I have
ordered an adjustable pushrod from Dick Miller this morning and had a
question concerning the usage of this tool.
	Is the procedure for using this to install it into one cylinder,
have the camshaft on the base circle of the lobe, and then adjust the
pushrod to zero lash, and that will be my correct pushrod length?
	Also, my 455 has been sitting for years, after having the camshaft
broken in.  Do I need to do anything special with the lifter on this valve
assembly to ensure I get a correct reading?

Thanks all!


Steve Reed 
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice 
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode) 
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine) 
Austin, TX 
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:33:24 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The guts of a Muncie

Ian,

> no overt
> grinding when the assembly was spun.


One can't tell on the bench. The gear train has to be loaded with engine
power.


> The brass rings specific for each
> gear with the the tiny knobs that look like miniature houses - what are
> they/what's their function?


The synchronizers. They force the spinning gears to match so that a gear
change can be made without grinding. Without them, you will have a "granny"
trans, shifts as slow as molasses to prevent grinding, with some by double
clutching.


> These ones appeared to be all in pretty
> good shape with equal wear in all except for the ring that looked like
> it was associated with first gear.  That one, the "houses" were more
> worn so that the "walls" were shorter than the others.  Is that normal
> wear?


Nope. It's gone. Replace all the synchronizers. They should be replaced
out-of-hand, anyway. Don't trust old syncs. It's not worth it.

That's why they're made of brass. They take all of the wear, preserving the
trans gears. They are considered to be and are designed to be expendable
parts.


> I've heard that Muncie's will bolt to a BOP-style bell plate from
> several manual trans types.  True or False?


I'm not sure about your last 5 words, but all GM manual transmissions from
1955, I think, to at least 1980+ have the same 4 bolt pattern and will bolt
directly to a BOP manual transmission bellhousing of those same years. The
input shafts and the throwout bearing collars should all be the same length,
too.


> Finaly, I couldn't believe how small the case was.  And how light.


Yup.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:37:23 -0600
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Fuel pump delivery rate?

All,
	I'm trying to decide on what fuel pump to purchase for use with my
modified 455 with an 850CFM carburetor.
	Carter has (2) that I'm looking at one delivers 100 Gallons per
hour, and the other is rated at 72 GPH.
	for the details:  I have approximately a 525 lift cam, and the 850
CFM carb, and I don't plan on taking the car to the strip.

Recommendations are appreciated!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:44:50 -0500
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: the shake is gone, was Check Ball Bleeder Screws

  Thanks, Milton
   Makes me feel good to hear from you!!!   Yup, a little luck is always a
good thing!
john

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:52:00 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Instruction on Determining Pushrod Length with Adjustable Pushrod

Steve,

> Is the procedure for using this to install it into one cylinder,
> have the camshaft on the base circle of the lobe, and then adjust the
> pushrod to zero lash, and that will be my correct pushrod length?


Read below.


> Also, my 455 has been sitting for years, after having the camshaft
> broken in.  Do I need to do anything special with the lifter on this valve
> assembly to ensure I get a correct reading?


No. Just make sure the lifter cup doesn't depress. Be very careful and
gentle. If the intake manifold is off, it's easier to watch.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com
_______________________

?Determining Olds valve train geometry:

This is going to be a little complicated. It's a lot easier to do this with
one's hands than to try to describe it.

First, you need to obtain one adjustable pushrod to use to determine the
correct pushrod length. Crane offers them for this exact purpose. Then, you
will need to determine the rocker arm
height at rest, with the valve closed. This explanation will assume a gross
valve lift of 0.5", which means a cam lobe lift of 0.3125", as per the 1.6
ratio of the rocker arm. Substitute in your exact
cam specs, if different. Believe it or not, this operation will be one of
the most precise measurements you will do on your engine. It's that
important. You will not achieve full power potential if not done properly.

Turn the engine over by hand to top dead center on #1 cylinder, firing,
where both cam lobes would be down and both valves would be normally closed.
All measurements will be done on #1
for simplicity. Pick either the intake or exhaust to start. It doesn't
matter which, for you'll do the other one next. Take the adjustable pushrod
and screw down the adjusting end enough to give room to install the pushrod
with plenty of slack. Install the pushrod into the head with the adjustable
end up. Install a rocker arm on the valve and on the pushrod. Set up a
measuring device (dial indicator, etc.), your choice, that will indicate
when an imaginary line running through the center of the roller tip, the
center of the fulcrum shaft, and the top of the inside of the pushrod cup is
parallel to the flat pad on the head where the rocker arm stud is screwed
into. It's probably a good idea to take a pencil or fine line marker and
draw the line on the side of the rocker. Screw one of the polylocks onto the
stud. Now, very carefully, measure the rear, pushrod end of the rocker at
the cup, on the pushrod centerline, and screw the polylock down with your
fingers until the pushrod end of the rocker is 0.156" below the imaginary
centerline. (0.156" is half of the cam lobe lift of 0.3125", rounded off.)
The nose of the rocker will be a little up and the tail of the rocker will
be a little down. Again with your fingers, screw the adjustable end of the
pushrod up until it just touches the pushrod cup in the rocker arm, *but
does not depress the hydraulic lifter in any way*. This condition is
extremely vital! Now, when you are sure that you have the exactly correct
conditions met, carefully lock the lock nut on the pushrod adjuster, to
prevent the adjuster from moving.

At this point, all slack has been taken out of valve train system. Zero lash
is obtained. The pushrod is holding the rocker arm up against the polylock
nut and down against the valve stem. The rocker arm is sitting at zero lift,
tail down and nose up. At this position, when the engine rotates, half valve
lift will level the rocker arm with respect to the head. Full valve lift
will drop
the nose and raise the tail of the rocker arm the exact same reciprocal
amount as when the valve is closed. This mechanical relationship will insure
the roller tip of the rocker arm is as precisely centered, as possible, on
the center of the valve stem for proper valve operation and will help to
eliminate unnecessary and destructive side loads on the valve stem, which
could prematurely wear the valve guides in a non-uniform manner.

Now, remove the rocker arm. Remove the adjustable pushrod and measure the
exact length. Whatever the exact length comes out to be, add 0.040", which
represents the depth needed for ½
turn past zero valve lash. That is the length for the pushrod for that
valve. However, you're not done yet. Murphy and his family always says
things are not always that simple.

Install the adjustable pushrod and rocker arm on the other valve for #1
cylinder. Repeat the above procedure precisely. Pull the rocker arm and
pushrod back out and measure the pushrod
and add 0.040". Add the two pushrod lengths that you now have together and
divide by 2. That final value is the length of the non-adjustable pushrods
with hardened extended tips for the pushrod guide plates that you need to
order. I would recommend ordering pushrods directly from the source, Smith
Brothers Pushrods at
http://www.pushrods.net/ .

I realize that if you've never done this type of measurement before, it may
sound a bit difficult. You can do it. If you have any problems, or need
further clarification, call me. 520-888-1731

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:29 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: The guts of a Muncie

Milton,

>> I've heard that Muncie's will bolt to a BOP-style bell plate from
>> several manual trans types.  True or False?

>I'm not sure about your last 5 words, but all GM manual transmissions
from
>1955, I think, to at least 1980+ have the same 4 bolt pattern and will
bolt
>directly to a BOP manual transmission bellhousing of those same years.
The
>input shafts and the throwout bearing collars should all be the same
>length,
>too.

Thanks for the input.  I meant "BOP MT bellhousing" not ... whatever it
was I said.  Did Borg-Warner make standard trans for GM?  
Ian

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:51:51 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Oddball engine in a 1967 98

> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:45:47 -0500
> From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
> Subject: RE: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
> 
> Okay, Ken & Chris:  The 442 engine unit number in '67 will be 
> V2xxxxxG (no G
> suffix on the Turnpike Cruiser 400)and the pad is on the 
> front of the right
> hand (aka passenger side).  Unless the heads have been 
> removed and were
> replaced on opposite sides, then it would be on the back of 
> the left hand
> (drivers) side.
> 
> Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
> http://wmachines.shubes.net
> '65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
> '67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
> '92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '99 Expedition (no-speed)

OK, I stand corrected. Apparently I'm suffering from memory dyslexia - I 
checked my engine, and lo and behold, the number is on the RIGHT head. I'll 
have to use the excuse that the engine is disassembled as my defense in this 
case, and the right head and left head look a lot alike in that situation. 
Yeah, that's it.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:58:13 -0600
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Good deal on price & shipping of Optima Battery

All,
	I just thought I'd pass the word on one of my latest part
acquisitions.  I got an Optima battery for my daily driver from Summit
Racing.  The battery was $129.99, and the shipping was FREE.

Summit is keeping up it's great reputation in my book.


Steve Reed 
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice 
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop (In Reassembly mode) 
'68 Cutlass Supreme (Seized Engine) 
Austin, TX 
http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:25:58 -0500
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

At Thursday, 11 March 2004, you wrote:

>I'm compelled to stick up for my '96 Caprice 9c1 - at 
>215,000 km it remains a solid car.....
>----------------------
>
>Other than the idiotic Opitspark, these are pretty bulletproof.

Only problem is, they ain't made none since then; they abandoned 
the entire big-cop-car and big-fambly-car market to Frod. Can you 
believe it: EIGHT YEARS of Frod-big-cars with still nary a sign of 
a GM competitor in sight. Someone up there's got their priorities 
entirely screwed up.

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:44:12 -0500
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: FW: The guts of a Muncie

At Thursday, 11 March 2004, you wrote:
>The brass rings specific for each gear with the the tiny 
>knobs that look like miniature houses - what are they/what's 
>their function?

Them be's the SYNCHRONIZER rings. When them houses loose their peaks,
you clash gears like yer shifting an ole tin lizzy's tranny  ;o\

>These ones appeared to be all in pretty good shape with 
>equal wear in all except for the ring that looked like
>it was associated with first gear.  That one, the "houses" 
>were more worn so that the "walls" were shorter than the 
>others.  Is that normal wear?  

It is, and it's likely to grind some when you attempt engaging first 
gear. You used to be able to get a full package of new synchronizer 
rings at ANY hot rod shop, and most Pep Boys, for around $15-$20.
Changing them isn't real hard, especially only first gear but you 
need a large pair of snap ring pliers. All your other tools will 
work fine otherwise. Count on AT LEAST 3-4 hours for your first rebuild.
Use moly grease to hold the roller bearings in place. You don't 
really need a book or picture, it pretty much will only go back together 
one way and you can pretty easily figger that out.

>This M20 wide-ratio had a drain-plug.  I thought only M22's 
>had drain plugs?

I don't rember fer sure but I don't really rember any of my manuals 
not having drain plugs except the T-98-overdrive that was in my first 
car.

>I've heard that Muncie's will bolt to a BOP-style bell plate 
>from several manual trans types.  True or False?

Yup, they bolt to ANY of the older-style GM V8 bellhousings (older-
style meaning pre-'80 or thereabouts).

>Finaly, I couldn't believe how small the case was.  And how light. 

Yup  :o))  They're just heavy enough that when you're only two weeks 
from having had your shattered left wrist reset and three pins inserted,
you can still hold the dang thang up on your cast while working 
the bolts in place  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\ (not that it was fun... but I managed 
it, anyhow)

You don't want to try that with a T-10, though. And if yer gwan monkey 
around with a Super T-10, you'd better start doing your daily exercises 
a cupla weeks before  ;o(

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:52:20 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: buying a 2002 Olds Silhouette

 
Book of SteveH:
> Someone up there's got their priorities 
>entirely screwed up.

How true is that!  The only solid bet for the resurgence of RWD GM
muscle (that's not a truck) are the current Goats a.k.a. Holden -
mobiles.  Hmmm..... Holdsmobiles. 

Ian Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:06:11 -0600
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: RE: FW: The guts of a Muncie

Good words Steve.  Are there any common parts that are frequently
upgraded or strengthened?  Thanks much.
Ian Dixon

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=+

Them be's the SYNCHRONIZER rings. When them houses loose their peaks,
you clash gears like yer shifting an ole tin lizzy's tranny  ;o\

>These ones appeared to be all in pretty good shape with 
>equal wear in all except for the ring that looked like
>it was associated with first gear.  That one, the "houses" 
>were more worn so that the "walls" were shorter than the 
>others.  Is that normal wear?  

It is, and it's likely to grind some when you attempt engaging first 
gear. You used to be able to get a full package of new synchronizer 
rings at ANY hot rod shop, and most Pep Boys, for around $15-$20.
Changing them isn't real hard, especially only first gear but you 
need a large pair of snap ring pliers. All your other tools will 
work fine otherwise. Count on AT LEAST 3-4 hours for your first rebuild.
Use moly grease to hold the roller bearings in place. You don't 
really need a book or picture, it pretty much will only go back together

one way and you can pretty easily figger that out. I don't rember fer
sure but I don't really rember any of my manuals 
not having drain plugs except the T-98-overdrive that was in my first 
car.

>I've heard that Muncie's will bolt to a BOP-style bell plate 
>from several manual trans types.  True or False?

Yup, they bolt to ANY of the older-style GM V8 bellhousings (older-
style meaning pre-'80 or thereabouts).

>Finaly, I couldn't believe how small the case was.  And how light. 

Yup  :o))  They're just heavy enough that when you're only two weeks 
from having had your shattered left wrist reset and three pins inserted,
you can still hold the dang thang up on your cast while working 
the bolts in place  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\ (not that it was fun... but I managed 
it, anyhow)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:46:31 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump delivery rate?

As long as your engine will not be taken over 5000 RPM, use the Carter 72
GPH electric pump.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:50:56 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The guts of a Muncie

> Did Borg-Warner make standard trans for GM?


B-W T-10 4-speed in '55 Corvettes. In addition, B-W made 3-speeds used by
GM. Go to the Hurst website at Mr. Gasket and look at the transmission I.D.
pages.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:13:14 -0800
From: "Mike Morrissey" <oxfarm@oregontrail.net>
Subject: Re: One Man brake bleeder

I, too have a mityVac. Works swell, and versatile.
Mike in baker city, Oregon
'98 intrigue
''72 suburban
'69 442 ragged-top
'69 vista "Vista-Carouser"
and the rest of the "Obsolete Fleet"
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
To: "Oldsmobile-Digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: One Man brake bleeder


> Best one is the MityVac hand held vacuum pump. Works great, and costs
> about $30.
> 
> Can also be used to test vacuum components. 
> 
> Buy the one with the vacuum gauge on it.
> 
> Paul Tumolo
> 1970 442 Hardtop
> Oca # 31967 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:25 -1000
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: rebuild

Ive decided to go with a rebuild on my motor, rather than try to half it.  I
have most of what i want in mind, but I have 3 questions, that maybe someone
might answer.  1.What rockers and pushrods has anyone used with the
Edelbrock Performer RPM set-up.  2. Do I need to get a stall converter. and
3 Will a Melling M-22FHV fry out my oil pan??

Thanks in Advance
Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme
350/350

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:23:51 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: paging "swanny"

Hi chris,
Yes this is the infamous "swanny" I guess you could say. I hope I didn't do
anything wrong! I did bid $5.00 on it. I am definitely interested. Is it
still available? e-mail me privately if you want.  swannys78@adelphia.net
Gotta take my husky to the vet this morn to have stitches removed should be
back aroun 11 am.
Thanks.
Pat  "swanny"



- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:59 PM
Subject: paging "swanny"


> Need to know if thie email list "swanny" has bid on my G body shifter
> If not, I get to cancel a bid I guess.
> No pre-arrangement, ya know....
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:12:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: rebuild

> 1.What rockers and pushrods has anyone used with the
> Edelbrock Performer RPM set-up.


Harlan Sharp or Crane or Comp Cams. Once you measure for correct pushrod
length (see post to Steve Reed), you could go direct to the source, Smith
Brothers, or get them from Crane or Comp Cams.


> 2. Do I need to get a stall converter.


Maybe. How much does your car weigh and what do you have for rear gears?
What are the cam specs? What number heads are you going to use with what
valve size?


> 3. Will a Melling M-22FHV fry out my oil pan??


You will need a 6 quart oil pan from a Toronado, at minimum. Otherwise use a
stock oil pump and perform proper oil system mods for an Olds engine, but
*do not* use oil restrictors.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:39:51 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: FW: The guts of a Muncie

At 03:06 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Good words Steve.  Are there any common parts that are frequently
>upgraded or strengthened?  Thanks much.

I really couldn't tell you as I haven't done anything with one since the
late '70s. And even then, all we did was replace the stripped cluster and
input shafts and, if needed, synchronizers. I don't rember ever breaking
any other gears in my Muncies, just the input shaft and cluster. And I only
stripped them although once, I recall, the input shaft actually cracked
where the roller bearings sit. But I snapped the cluster into three pieces
(of which I only ever found two) in my Super T-10 and the remainder shoved
its way through the bottom of the cast iron case (although that was only
behind a so-called "335-horse" Frod 428) ;o\

Also, Milt made a point that I didn't: replace all the synchronizers at
once, while you're doing it. But frankly, back in those days, we didn't
usually bother with the others because the only one that ever seemed to
wear out for us was 1st.

OH.... as far as drain plugs are concerned... we never used them as the
trannies came out of the car often enough to just dump the oil outta the
side opening  ;o) But now that I think of it... yes, I don't really recall
ANY of my Muncies having a drain plug, just the fill plug.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:53:42 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump delivery rate?

At 02:46 PM 3/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>As long as your engine will not be taken over 5000 RPM, use the Carter 72
>GPH electric pump.

Should one use a regulator with an electric pump? I rember having erratic
flooding problems with a bit too much pressure from one I had years ago.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:17:44 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: rebuild

At 04:12 PM 3/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>You will need a 6 quart oil pan from a Toronado, at minimum. Otherwise 
>use a stock oil pump and perform proper oil system mods for an Olds 
>engine, but *do not* use oil restrictors.

Ummm... Milton... have you ever seen a Toro oil pan?? That additional quart
just sits in the front sump instead of the back. If you compare a RWD pan
to a Toro, you'll notice the rear sumps are almost identical while the
Toro's front sump is just a bit deeper. So the Toro pan really doesn't do
much good other than holding another quart; and you don't even get that
quart unless you're flooring it to make it move back to the rear.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:29:03 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: Home electrical problems....

Jim,

Thanks for the info.  I've looked at the website you mentioned, although
only briefly.  What model is yours, and what sort of power-draw capacity
does it have?

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

At 10:48 PM 03/08/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>My suggestion is to pick up an uninterupable power supply (UPS) that will
>log under and over voltages as well as blackouts. Not only will it protect
>your PC but give you something more tangible to refer to when talking to an
>electrician. I like the company APC because their tech support is great and
>their products are top notch. The two I have cost about $60 and have a USB
>cable to plug in to the PC to "talk" to the UPS. Here's a link to the ones I
>use.
>
>http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=21
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jim
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:13 PM
>Subject: OT: Home electrical problems....
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> This is obviously WAY off topic, but I need a bit of assistance here.
>> It's also quite lengthy, as I try to give as much info as possible.  If
>> electrical issues aren't your expertise or you don't care about household
>> wiring, hit delete now....
>>
>> Bought my house about a year ago.  The house was built in 1999, so it's
>> just turning 5 years old.  Electrical system is 150 amp service.
>>
>>
>> I realize now that a spate of unpredictable instability with my computer
>> started when I moved here.  In my apartment, no problems, nor in the house
>> I used to live in which was built in 1978.
>>
>>
>> What'll happen is that, every so often, while scrolling with a web
>> browser, while typing something in a browser's text-window (like posting
>to
>> a message board) or while playing a 3d game, the computer will crash in
>one
>> of two ways:
>>
>> 1) The screen will go blank, and the monitor LED will flash as if the
>> computer had gone into power-save mode.  If there was music playing in the
>> background, it will continue, or sometimes repeat a half-second loop over
>> and over.  Nothing will bring the computer out of this short of powering
>it
>> down.
>>
>> 2) The screen will freeze up.  Similar symptoms to above, except the
>> screen is not blank.
>>
>> These particular symptoms had never happened before.  I'd had crashes and
>> such, but not in that manner.
>>
>> Now, I thought I might be having problems with my PC, but then I noticed a
>> few other things.  First, plugging the system into a different outlet
>quite
>> noticeably reduced (but did not eliminate) the occurrence of these oddball
>> crashes.
>>
>> Second: I have flourescent lights in my kitchen.  One light fixture is one
>> with the typical long-tube type lights (2 of them, similar to what offices
>> have), and the other has a flourescent light that screws into what would
>> normally be an incandescent socket.  Any time my printer (a small laser
>> printer) is printing, or when it's just been powered on, these lights will
>> flicker continuously, until either the printer is shut off, or goes into
>> sleep mode.  When not printing, but still "active", the lights will
>flicker
>> unpredictably.
>>
>>
>> Other things I noticed is that, when I had my whole system plugged into
>> the original outlet, any time I turned on one of the kitchen lights,
>> activated by a switch not too far from the outlet, the speakers would pop
>> fairly loudly.  This went away after moving to the other outlet.
>>
>> Note also: the new outlet that most things are plugged into is on the same
>> circuit as the old one, as well as the lights, etc.  Just farther away
>from
>> that one switch.  The printer, scanner, and monitor are still in the old
>> outlet (close to that light switch).
>>
>>
>> It's been suggested to me that I have:
>>
>> 1) Grounding problems
>>
>> 2) A loose connection in the wall wiring, or possibly near the circuit
>> breaker.
>>
>> 3) The wiring job was a bit slipshod on this circuit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, until the end of March, my home is covered by a warranty by American
>> Home Shield (AHS).  The electrical system is one of the covered systems.
>> They sent a guy over, and he did some checking, and said the ground was
>> fine.  He also suggested a few other things, and said that the reason the
>> flourescent lights flicker is because they're more sensitive to
>> fluctuations in the power line.  He also said that it's possible that the
>> computer instability is due to the flourescent lights affecting the
>current
>> on the line, though a later repetion of those symptoms when no lights were
>> on in the house nixed that theory.
>>
>> Other suggestions were to use another outlet (on a different circuit), or
>> to get a power suppressor.  In retrospect, however, these "solutions" seem
>> to avoid the problem rather than solving it, and frankly I'd rather not be
>> snaking an extension cord across the living room.  I think he mentioned
>> that the warranty company won't really fix anything if it's not a
>"failure"
>> I guess.  I'll have to check into that.
>>
>> I plan to try the extension-cord-to-another-outlet for the time being just
>> to see if the instability goes away.  That'll at least tell me if the one
>> circuit has a problem I guess.
>>
>> But like I said, I had no such problems in the apartment, nor in the 25
>> year old house (with 25 year old wiring and a much lower amperage of
>service).
>>
>>
>> As I know precisely squat about electricity, other than to not stick a
>> fork in the wall sockets, can anyone give me a clue as to whether or not
>> what I'm experiencing is something that I should NOT be putting up with,
>or
>> no?  I personally think it's odd that I'd be limited, in a modern house,
>as
>> to what outlets I can plug a computer into.
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance you can give me on this.
>>
>>
>> - Joe Vahabzadeh
>>
>>
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4814
*********************************
