
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, March 1 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4800



Re: Building a 260?  Re: 260 versus 468 - weight
RE: free carfax til sunday!
RE: Larry Biasotto's SX is looking fine!
Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts
Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts
Re: 1979 Seat Belt Cover info wanted
AIR pumps
Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts
RE: More eBay fun- Question for seller -- Item #2462917579
Re: AIR pumps
sqeaky belts
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??
Re: AIR pumps
Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: more FWD vs RWD 3.8L
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: I hate AIR also
Re: Building a 260?  Re: 260 versus 468 - weight
RE: AIR pumps
Re: AIR pumps
RE: AIR pumps
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: sqeaky belts
Re: AIR pumps
Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??
Re: AIR pumps

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:47:18 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Building a 260?  Re: 260 versus 468 - weight

Dear Guys, remeber that the Q about the 260 was only about the weight
difference relatively to the 455... no plans to hot rod this engine :-)
Anyaway, it spins quick and high and so smooth... I really rather drive this
one than a V6. And with free exhaust it has enough power to drive around the
city with pleasure... rgds
Matt

> why would anyone want to spend the time and money on the 260.
> the mods  probably would kill you in cost.
> since 260 was never ment to have a 4 bbl carb

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:28:30 -0500 
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: free carfax til sunday!

Thanks George - it still worked this morning!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: geo.aigel@netzero.net [mailto:geo.aigel@netzero.net]
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:02 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: free carfax til sunday!
> 
> 
> Free carfax until Sunday
> In case anyone's interested
> 
> http://www.nbc4.com/consumer/2881475/detail.html
> 
> Click on carfax ad at bottom
> 
> It actually really works. I just checked our 17 digit vin 
> cars. (you need 
> that). If you want to do more than one car, you need to delete your 
> cookies, otherwise they know you came back. :)
> 
> George
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:02:50 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Larry Biasotto's SX is looking fine!

WOW!!!!!

Excellent job Larry.

Fill us in on all the details......

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:54:56 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts

> It seems like it is some kind of sensor that is on the
> blink.  I would just remove the line from the manifold
> and let it come back down, at least so it can be
> driven to a garage, but this vehicle has its own
> compressor.

There's a level sensor in the back.  Probably bolted to the body.  Has an arm that connects to the trailing axle.  It probably went bad.  Sells for $385.  You could try unplugging it.  That might let it return to normal.

> Also, this car had the upper manifold seal problem
> about 30k miles ago.  Today I had to add quite a bit
> of coolant, so I'm not feeling too well about having
> this job done again.  First time was $700 at a dealer.
>  Does GM have any kind of program that warrenties
> their work like Frod used to advertise?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:58:27 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts

> Also, this car had the upper manifold seal problem
> about 30k miles ago.  Today I had to add quite a bit
> of coolant, so I'm not feeling too well about having
> this job done again.  First time was $700 at a dealer.
>  Does GM have any kind of program that warrenties
> their work like Frod used to advertise?

Check with the dealer.  Certain repairs have a limited lifetime warranty (I think) if the dealer is a "GM Goodwrench Plus" dealer.  I don't know if this is one of those repairs or not.

Otherwise, normal defective part warranty is 12/12000.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:36:40 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: 1979 Seat Belt Cover info wanted

> I am trying to figure out the part number(s) for the plastic cover? (or
> assembly) that attaches to the floor and what the seat belt clips into. 

The buckle?

The following are part numbers from the seat belt chart in the parts catalog for camel belts for a 2dr A-body with A51 or AR9 bucket seats:

Deluxe 1 -

LH retractor - 20062947
LH buckle - 3064783
RH buckle - 3064783
RH retractor - 20073264

Deluxe 6 - 

LH retractor - 20079843
LH buckle - 20079895
RH buckle - 20079895
RH retractor - 20079842

Don't know what the difference is between a Deluxe 1 and a Deluxe 6 belt.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:36:18 GMT
From: njot33@juno.com
Subject: AIR pumps

It has generally been my experience that AIR pumps are unreliable.
I had many problems with this system on an 81 Buick Skylark, which had the 2.5L 4 cylinder in it, and was otherwise a good car (I got 210,000 miles out of it).

The problem would be that the bearings in the pump itself would somehow wear out and start squealing, eventually causing the belt to seize up.  Usually the check valve that prevented exhaust gas from backing up into the pump would fail and then ruin the pump.  The aftermarket pumps were garbage and would last only a few months at best.

The problem was that the AIR pump belt also ran the a/c, which consequently would not work.  What was worse was that you had to take all 3 belts off to get the AIR and a/c belt off to replace it.  I finally left the belt off and just did without the a/c.

They had a better system on the 1980 Skylark, called pulsed air injection.  It did without an AIR pump.  I don't know exactly how it worked, or why they didn't stick with this system and use it on other GM cars.

It just seemed like the AIR pump type system was more trouble than it was worth.

The main purpose of AIR was to dilute the unburned fuel going out the exhaust when the engine was cold, so as not to overload the catalyic converter.  However, I never had any trouble with my catalytic converter even with this system disconnected.
- -Scott

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:36:00 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Load Leveling on Silhouette goes nuts

>There is also an overpressure switch on most, but not all, models, that is
>supposed to shut off the compressor to prevent overpressurizing the air
>shocks; I've often found that switch to be inoperative.
>
>If you lie down behind the left rear tire and look up at the frame above
>the axle, you should be able to see the sensor and the linkage rod; feel
>whether the linkage rod is still connected at both ends.

Second that; I'd look first to see whether some road debris has knocked off 
or damaged the linkage rod.

In addition, the system (as installed on my SSEi) is supposed to have a 
timeout circuit which shuts down the pump after 10 minutes of constant 
running; not sure if yours is similar.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:45:06 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: More eBay fun- Question for seller -- Item #2462917579

>Does anyone have any idea why this "jsalinardi@comcast.net" or " 
>bigblockolds" feller is so ingracious?

Given the number of posts that this generated over the weekend, I can't tell 
whether this was ever answered, but my guess is that it's somebody that 
you've come up against before under a different identity (his, not yours) in 
your unofficial role of Olds Quality Control on the eVil site. Maybe he got 
a prior auction nuked as a result of your catching him in a lie about 
something...?

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:10:12 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: AIR pumps

On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 04:36:18PM +0000, njot33@juno.com wrote:
> It has generally been my experience that AIR pumps are unreliable. I had
> many problems with this system on an 81 Buick Skylark, which had the 2.5L
> 4 cylinder in it, and was otherwise a good car (I got 210,000 miles out of
> it).

The AIR pump in the '83 Celebrity I had before the Olds seized up on me one
day...had to cut off the belt to get back on the road.  I also had to
replace the AIR management valve (?) after the right-side (or rear, for a
wrong-wheel-drive car) check valve failed.  The check valve was cheap enough
(under $20) and the pump wasn't too bad (maybe $30 or so), but the chunk of
plastic and wires that was the AIR management valve was a dealer-only part
that cost nearly $120.  Grr.

My Olds was first sold in California, so it's equipped with an AIR pump. 
When I bought it, the pump was seized up and the belt was missing.  It was
never required to pass smog in Nevada, so I've never bothered replacing it. 
At some point, it'll be yanked out.  I heard a while back that Mondello
carries the plugs that would fill the ports where the AIR manifolds are
attached...a confirmation of this (or a lower-cost suggestion) would be
nice.

> They had a better system on the 1980 Skylark, called pulsed air injection. 
> It did without an AIR pump.  I don't know exactly how it worked, or why
> they didn't stick with this system and use it on other GM cars.

My first car, an '80 Chevette, was equipped with that...instead of a pump
and some valves and hoses, there was a metal box on the right side of the
engine with (IIRC) five pipes sticking out of it.  Four went to the exhaust
manifold (presumably near the exhaust ports), while the fifth went someplace
else...don't know where.  AFAIK there was nothing to go wrong with that
system, but maybe it was only usable on small engines (like the Chevette's
1.6L ohc 4-banger).  I never had any problems with it, and it still ran like
a champ in 1996 when an old fart driving a Lincoln cut me off and killed it.

  _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
 / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:18:18 EST
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: sqeaky belts

- --part1_86.68e10a8.2d74f48a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I get these ideas sometimes and usually they don't work out too well. Well, 
here goes: I bough a new fuel line (pump to carb) from inlinetube. Was bent 
even near close but I got it work with vice and muscles. I though it would be an 
easier job if I just took the AC compressor off. And it was. However, I 
decided to take the compressor all the way off since a) the AC doesn't work due to 
broken orifice tube and b) I don't use AC anyway. Well I took the compressor 
off. I just cut the belt instead of taking the others ones off. 

Now here's the problem. I have belt squeak. It only last for about 10 sec. It 
squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the squeaking goes away. 
I also degreased the engine on sat. Do you think that could have open up an 
oil "scab"? I tried to tighten the alt belt. It helped slightly. Am I going to 
have to chnage the pulley on the water pump and the one directly below it to a 
non AC style pulley? If so I'll just put the compressor back on. I took it off 
because it is in the way sometimes and I believe in a "less is more" 
regarding accesories in an engine compartment. Thanks.

- --part1_86.68e10a8.2d74f48a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>I get these i=
deas sometimes and usually they don't work out too well. Well, here goes: I=20=
bough a new fuel line (pump to carb) from inlinetube. Was bent even near clo=
se but I got it work with vice and muscles. I though it would be an easier j=
ob if I just took the AC compressor off. And it was. However, I decided to t=
ake the compressor all the way off since a) the AC doesn't work due to broke=
n orifice tube and b) I don't use AC anyway. Well I took the compressor off.=
 I just cut the belt instead of taking the others ones off.=20
<BR>
<BR>Now here's the problem. I have belt squeak. It only last for about 10 se=
c. It squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the squeaking goes=
 away. I also degreased the engine on sat. Do you think that could have open=
 up an oil "scab"? I tried to tighten the alt belt. It helped slightly. Am I=
 going to have to chnage the pulley on the water pump and the one directly b=
elow it to a non AC style pulley? If so I'll just put the compressor back on=
. I took it off because it is in the way sometimes and I believe in a "less=20=
is more" regarding accesories in an engine compartment. Thanks.</FONT></HTML=
>

- --part1_86.68e10a8.2d74f48a_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:45:39 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

Flipx99@wmconnect.com wrote:

> I get these ideas sometimes and usually they don't work out too well. 
> Well, here goes: I bough a new fuel line (pump to carb) from inlinetube. 
> Was bent even near close but I got it work with vice and muscles. I 
> though it would be an easier job if I just took the AC compressor off. 
> And it was. However, I decided to take the compressor all the way off 
> since a) the AC doesn't work due to broken orifice tube and b) I don't 
> use AC anyway. Well I took the compressor off. I just cut the belt 
> instead of taking the others ones off.
> 
> Now here's the problem. I have belt squeak. It only last for about 10 
> sec. It squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the 
> squeaking goes away. I also degreased the engine on sat. Do you think 
> that could have open up an oil "scab"? I tried to tighten the alt belt. 
> It helped slightly. Am I going to have to chnage the pulley on the water 
> pump and the one directly below it to a non AC style pulley? If so I'll 
> just put the compressor back on. I took it off because it is in the way 
> sometimes and I believe in a "less is more" regarding accesories in an 
> engine compartment. Thanks.

Why not just put on new belts properly tightened?
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:56:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Steve Harrison wrote:

> Gotta query for you guys who have AIR pumps that use the big belt (not the
> little one that runs directly off something else): was looking at my '88
> CSM and it appears as if my AIR pump (which I need to put back on to pass
> emissions sometime these next several weeks) belt might be adjusted by
> moving the A/C compressor, rather than a separate movement of the AIR pump
> itself to tighten the belt. Can anybody go have a look and confirm??

IIRC, that sounds like how my Buick stawag is set up...  The Safari didn't
have an air pump or AC.  I'd check it, but it's not nearby.

I never saw one of those "little belt" air pump until I got the Bonne...
That belt is so cute with it's little pulley... too bad I gotta take it
off all the time to screw with the other belts!

> If that's the case, it means I'll have to put the A/C compressor back on,
> too, which I didn't want to do, since it doesn't work and I don't want the
> extra weight anyhow.

And that whole setup is a b**** to put back together...

> The alternative would be to somehow find the brackets from a
> non-A/C-equipped 307. And if B-bodies weren't even available without A/C,
> I'd likely have to install the pump and brackets from a non-A/C G-body,
> which don't exist in the northeast.

Why not get some spherical rod end connectors?  For something like the air
pump, you would just need one rigid mount, and one adjustible spherical
rod end connector.  It would very 'Hot Rod'... would that be a problem to
the inspection guys?  I'm not sure how much it would cost, but it can't
too bad.

I've been thinking of doing this next time, instead of dealing with
screwed up OEM mounts and brackets.  I abhor the power steering adjustment
(or lack thereof) on the '80s 307 B-bods...

BTW, be careful adjusting the air pump... I got carried away last time and
cracked the mounting ear... I was lucky, it still mounts, but if I loosen
it a bit, it'll fall off.  ;-)

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO/CSO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:21:13 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: AIR pumps

Scott,

> At some point, it'll be yanked out.  I heard a while back that Mondello
> carries the plugs that would fill the ports where the AIR manifolds are
> attached...a confirmation of this (or a lower-cost suggestion) would be
> nice.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the tubes held in with a tubing nut
around the tube that's screwed into the threaded port on the exhaust
manifold? If so, the thread should be a JIC and the port an inverted flare.
Plugs to fit JIC inverted flare female fittings/ports are common and
available at any good full-line hardware store. Just measure the outside
diameter of the tube and get JIC inverted flare plugs for that tube size.
Take a tube manifold with nuts along for matching and verification. The
threads are standardized per tube size. Army-Navy (A&N or AN) fittings are
the same, but are usually all in aluminum. JIC commercial tube fittings are
gold irridated cadmium-zinc plated steel. Rarely will JIC inverted flare
fittings be found in brass, because brass generally isn't strong enough
during tightening for these applications. Brake line fittings are JIC
inverted flare.

Never, under any circumstances, use and Teflon tape or any other type of
thread sealer with a JIC inverted flare fitting. The inverted flare contact
is the *only* sealing surface. The threads simply torque the two sealing
surfaces together for sealing contact.

Tapered pipe threads are the *only* type of threads that are designed to
self seal and that require a thread sealer in most cases.

I don't have anything that uses an AIR system, and it's too long ago since I
saw one in pieces. I don't remember what the fittings are like exactly, but
JIC inverted flare would make engineering sense.

At any rate, plugs to plug the AIR ports in the heads should be readily
available, economically, at any good hardware store.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:25:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Fred Nissen wrote:

> This is why I DETEST AIR.  It does NOTHING to reduce emissions after the
> engine is up to operating temperature, and yet you are stuck with a huge
> amount of plumbing and other junk in the way when you need to service
> anything.  The Olds AIR is also not the best for either design or quality.
> Try getting the fittings from a rusted out AIR manifold out of the head....

And, IMHO, they are a fire hazard.  If the check valve gets stuck, the
heat from the exhaust or a backfire can melt or set the plastic diverter
valve on fire.  I know because my Buick had no diverter and melted bits
when I bought it... and sure enough, the check valve was stuck open (and
then manually plugged).  When I took the diverter valve out, you couldn't
recognise it... I went to Peps with a few melted, charred bits of plastic,
and when they showed me the new diverter, I thought it was the wrong part!
It took me a few minutes to realise what parts of the old diverter I had!

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO/CSO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:35:25 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

> It squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the squeaking goes
away.


How does that work? Engine revving by itself? Sure you don't have a vacuum
leak somewhere or is the fan clutch running away?


> I also degreased the engine on sat. Do you think that could have open up
an
> oil "scab"?


No, but it cleaned all the sticky stuff that had accumulated on the belts
and pulleys for good friction between the two.


> I tried to tighten the alt belt. It helped slightly.


Also tighten the power steering belt. Was the AC on one side of the engine
and the alternator and power steering on the other side? If so, when you
removed the AC, that side's lateral tension went away, which very slightly
lossen the belts on the other side. Also, the engine cleaning caused a
contact friction loss.

If after you tighten the power steering belt the squeak is still there, I
would expect badly glazed belts from long use. Inspect the belts. If they
are very shiny where they run in the pulley grooves and show signs of
cracking, replace them.


> Am I going to
> have to chnage the pulley on the water pump and the one directly below it
to a
> non AC style pulley?


No.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:36:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: more FWD vs RWD 3.8L

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, King V wrote:

> This seems to imply that the 3.8L V6 FWD version can simply have the RWD
> mounts put on it and bolt the sucker into a RWD car?!

To the best of my knowledge, you can.  Alot of talk about putting
Supercharged 3800s in RWD cars comes up... the engine will apparently bolt
in (that's how it is in the late F-bods)... but the supercharger is
orientated wrong for a RWD application... I think it would interfere with
the firewall.

> 2)
> "Actually, the entire 86-88 SFI intake from the FWD cars can be bolted to
> the earlier 3.8L RWD engines."
>
> I believe Chris Carson might also have ventured this theory as well when I
> asked about it a few weeks earlier.

I heard it'll bolt, but the later 3800 engines are stronger for the boost.
So it's not really recommended.

> 3)
> "The 3800 engine family should be avoided because this engine series no
> longer retains the necessary rear wheel drive transmission bolt pattern."
>
> Ok, the 3800 is less useful as a whole engine due to the tranny bolt
> pattern.  Gotcha, I think.  But I thought the earlier and later OD FWD
> trannies all used the same bolt pattern?

This sounds like BS.  How did they fit them in Camaros and Firebirds?
They were NA'd 3800 series backed up by a 4L60E (TH700).

> Just wondering.  Maybe I *should* haul out that completely useable 3.8L FI
> engine I've got, at least once the insurance issues are finally
> straightened out with my car.

I would.  It has to be valuable to someone.

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO/CSO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:41:05 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

> Flipx99@wmconnect.com wrote:
> > Well I took the compressor off. I just cut the belt 
> > instead of taking the others ones off.
> > 
> > Now here's the problem. I have belt squeak. It only last for about 10 
> > sec. It squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the 

> Why not just put on new belts properly tightened?

That won't help. Since the A/C belt is now gone, all belt tension is to one side of the engine (DS). You now have alt/PS pump/water pump pulling to that side. Tighten one and the other loosens, tighten that one, the other loosens. You need a belt that pulls to the pass side of the engine to stop this from happening by balancing the side load. I had the same thing happen to me and it drove me crazy. As soon as I put the A/C belt back on and tightened it up, the squeal went away.

The revving on its own is a little mystery. Maybe you have A/C selected on your climate controls and it is kicking a fast idle solenoid. Without the A/C compressor load it revs up. Dunno.

I need to design a serpentine setup with a tensioner. Time to call my machine shop owning friend again with another CNC project...

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:52:51 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: I hate AIR also

since 1994 most gm cars only use elec air pumps and only when engine is first started,untile closed
loop is obtained after that no air pump air flow is used
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: I hate AIR also


> > snip fred wrote: This is why I DETEST AIR.  It does NOTHING to reduce
> > emissions after the
> > engine is up to operating temperature,
>
> Untrue. AIR pumps into the cat after warmup to reduce HC's.
>
> drc
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:57:51 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Building a 260?  Re: 260 versus 468 - weight

it would be interesting? but not cost effective
ron 
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Building a 260? Re: 260 versus 468 - weight


> Dear Guys, remeber that the Q about the 260 was only about the weight
> difference relatively to the 455... no plans to hot rod this engine :-)
> Anyaway, it spins quick and high and so smooth... I really rather drive this
> one than a V6. And with free exhaust it has enough power to drive around the
> city with pleasure... rgds
> Matt
> 
> > why would anyone want to spend the time and money on the 260.
> > the mods  probably would kill you in cost.
> > since 260 was never ment to have a 4 bbl carb
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:50:59 -0800
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: RE: AIR pumps

Just so you all know, plugging the AIR ports in the heads is the right thing
to do. 

At least on 66 425's. Mine had all that cr*p on it when I got it from my
Dad. Some years into the hobby the car got old enough that I could take 'em
off. I did that and the motor's run better and been easier to work on every
since. 

The automotive theory behind AIR was that it would lengthen the time the
mixture burned a bit, but I didn't get that. As far as I could see all it
was doing was pushing fresh air into the exhaust stream to dilute what was
coming out of the cylinders. So it didn't reduce emissions, it just diluted
them. I could be quite wrong, but I never did get the system all that much.
I just know that there were all kinds of completely unnecessary warnings
against removing it in the CSM. I'd read up and decided to try it. Once I'd
run the motor without it, it became clear quickly that the design was a
kludge. 

Oh, and any of you with this system still on your cars, if you have a
backfire, AIR is probably contributing to it.  The cheap fix is to plug up
the hose that goes into the metal port distribution manifold. The right way
to do it is remove each of these manifolds and plug the holes in the head. 

And of course remove the pump. Lastly I suggest you reassemble on the bench
and keep the parts, ya never know when your state will want you to put the
stuff back on. You don't want to know how hard this cr*p is to find. $$$

Cheers,
cf 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:49:47 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: AIR pumps

At 12:10 PM 3/1/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>the chunk of plastic and wires that was the AIR management valve 
>was a dealer-only part that cost nearly $120.  Grr.

Cudda gotten them from one of 2,184 Yarde cars, like I did once  ;o\

>I heard a while back that Mondello carries the plugs that would 
>fill the ports where the AIR manifolds are attached...a confirmation 
>of this (or a lower-cost suggestion) would be nice.

Can get em from yer local Home Despot, too. But Moneydulla's are probly
cryogenically-treated so they won't ever break, and gold-plated for ease of
removal  ;o))))))))

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Amadei <amadei@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: AIR pumps

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Chris Fair wrote:

> The automotive theory behind AIR was that it would lengthen the time the
> mixture burned a bit, but I didn't get that. As far as I could see all it
> was doing was pushing fresh air into the exhaust stream to dilute what was
> coming out of the cylinders. So it didn't reduce emissions, it just diluted
> them.

With this thought in mind, I often wondered if installing a
"super-air-pump" and running a small hurricane throught your exhaust would
dilute the exhaust enough to help a car pass the sniffer.

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO/CSO
Atlantic City, NJ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:09:08 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

At 09:41 PM 3/1/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>That won't help. 

Yeah, it does.

>Since the A/C belt is now gone, all belt tension is to one side of the 
>engine (DS). You now have alt/PS pump/water pump pulling to that side. 
>Tighten one and the other loosens, tighten that one, the other loosens. 
>You need a belt that pulls to the pass side of the engine to stop this 
>from happening by balancing the side load. I had the same thing happen 
>to me and it drove me crazy. As soon as I put the A/C belt back on and 
>tightened it up, the squeal went away.

I've had my AC and AIR pump off for over two years, meaning there's no
passenger-side loading at all on mine. But the belts have never squealed.
Have had the ALTERNATOR belt squeal a few times, especially when I've got
the rear defroster on, full heater blower, headlights on high beam, etc.
But only when the car's really cold and it stops after a few seconds when
the belt warms up, I guess.

>The revving on its own is a little mystery. Maybe you have A/C 
>selected on your climate controls and it is kicking a fast idle 
>solenoid. Without the A/C compressor load it revs up. Dunno.

Could be; or the lack of the A/C pressure sensor.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:00:08 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??

At 09:25 PM 3/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>And, IMHO, they are a fire hazard.  If the check valve gets stuck, the
>heat from the exhaust or a backfire can melt or set the plastic diverter
>valve on fire.

When I got the BBA, the electrical harnesses for both the AIR solenoid
valves were disconnected. They were also melted so I hadda snatch
replacements from the Yarde and splice em in. Then later, I found one the
valves had melted inside and was stuck closed, routing air to the air
cleaner all the time. Got replacements off a Yarde car; why spend all the
money on new things when Yarde parts will work just as well for that kinda
thing  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

The valve was melted cause the check valves were EMPTY; they'd corroded
entirely and there was nothing left except the shells. Those, I replaced
with new parts since you can't usually get em off without breaking em anyhow.

Then last month, I was asking Keith and Joe to listen to the engine, see if
it had valves clicking or sumpin that I can't hear. Sure nuff, they heard
exhaust noise.... BOTH of my 2-year-old check valves are now leaking and
you can feel and hear the exhaust through em  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:49:06 -0500
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

Ya think that serpentine setup that was on the V6 Diesel work? Cuz there's
one in the engine pile at the junkyard, the whole engine could probably be
mine for $50...
Chris
- ----- Original Message -----

> > Flipx99@wmconnect.com wrote:
> > > Well I took the compressor off. I just cut the belt
> > > instead of taking the others ones off.
> > >
> > > Now here's the problem. I have belt squeak. It only last for about 10
> > > sec. It squeaks, then engine revs (all on its own) and then the
>
> > Why not just put on new belts properly tightened?
>
> That won't help. Since the A/C belt is now gone, all belt tension is to
one side of the engine (DS). You now have alt/PS pump/water pump pulling to
that side. Tighten one and the other loosens, tighten that one, the other
loosens. You need a belt that pulls to the pass side of the engine to stop
this from happening by balancing the side load. I had the same thing happen
to me and it drove me crazy. As soon as I put the A/C belt back on and
tightened it up, the squeal went away.
>
> The revving on its own is a little mystery. Maybe you have A/C selected on
your climate controls and it is kicking a fast idle solenoid. Without the
A/C compressor load it revs up. Dunno.
>
> I need to design a serpentine setup with a tensioner. Time to call my
machine shop owning friend again with another CNC project...
>
> --
> joe vitek
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:10:32 +0000
From: joevitek@comcast.net
Subject: Re: sqeaky belts

> At 09:41 PM 3/1/2004 +0000, you wrote:
> >That won't help. 
> 
> Yeah, it does.

Not in my case, been there done it. In fact, it was on the G-list that I went back and forth with you guys and finally figured out that my lack of pass side pull of A/C belt was the problem. I did many experiments with this belt on, that belt off, no belts at all, put them on one at a time, tighten, belt dressing on new belts, etc. When I didn't have the freewheeling A/C belt on, the PS pump and/or the alt belt would squeal at higher rpm or quick engine rev. No matter how much I tightened the NEW PS and alt belts, they would NEVER stop doing a squeal on quick rev or high rev. As soon as put the A/C belt on (A/C not working) and tightened it up, problem gone.

It was the people on the G-list that helped me get to that problem. It is just a suggestion to try. I suggest it because he didn't have the problem until he took off the A/C belt.

Mine happened the same way.

- --
joe vitek

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:49:25 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: AIR pumps

On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 02:21:13PM -0700, Infinite Space Systems, Inc. wrote:
> > At some point, it'll be yanked out.  I heard a while back that Mondello
> > carries the plugs that would fill the ports where the AIR manifolds are
> > attached...a confirmation of this (or a lower-cost suggestion) would be
> > nice.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the tubes held in with a tubing nut
> around the tube that's screwed into the threaded port on the exhaust
> manifold?

They are.

> If so, the thread should be a JIC and the port an inverted flare. Plugs to
> fit JIC inverted flare female fittings/ports are common and available at
> any good full-line hardware store. Just measure the outside diameter of
> the tube and get JIC inverted flare plugs for that tube size. Take a tube
> manifold with nuts along for matching and verification.

Yanking one of the AIR manifolds out to bring to the store shouldn't be a
problem.  I know of Mondello's rep for being somewhat high-priced, so if I
can fix this with a trip to the local Home Depot (or whatever), that would
definitely be high-speed.

  _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
 / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:55:04 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: AIR Pump Belt Adjustment??

On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:00:08PM +0000, Steve Harrison wrote:
> When I got the BBA, the electrical harnesses for both the AIR solenoid
> valves were disconnected. They were also melted so I hadda snatch
> replacements from the Yarde and splice em in. Then later, I found one the
> valves had melted inside and was stuck closed, routing air to the air
> cleaner all the time. Got replacements off a Yarde car; why spend all the
> money on new things when Yarde parts will work just as well for that kinda
> thing  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

You're lucky you could find a suitable replacement in the Yarde.  It seems
GM used a different type for each combination of year, engine, and body
type.  When I needed one, there were no '83 A-cars with 2.8s and all the
other types (different body types, off a year or two either way, etc.)
looked completely different.  It's no wonder they were so outrageously
expensive when they needed replacement.

  _/_   Scott Alfter (address in header doesn't receive mail)
 / v \  send mail to $firstname@$lastname.us
(IIGS(  http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:21:03 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: AIR pumps

Do you have a MIG-TIG-ARC welder available? I weld them shut, It's
easier......My .02 cents worth.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Alfter" <scott@alfter.us>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: AIR pumps


> On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 02:21:13PM -0700, Infinite Space Systems, Inc.
wrote:
> > > At some point, it'll be yanked out.  I heard a while back that
Mondello
> > > carries the plugs that would fill the ports where the AIR manifolds
are
> > > attached...a confirmation of this (or a lower-cost suggestion) would
be
> > > nice.
> >
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the tubes held in with a tubing nut
> > around the tube that's screwed into the threaded port on the exhaust
> > manifold?
>
> They are.
>
> > If so, the thread should be a JIC and the port an inverted flare. Plugs
to
> > fit JIC inverted flare female fittings/ports are common and available at
> > any good full-line hardware store. Just measure the outside diameter of
> > the tube and get JIC inverted flare plugs for that tube size. Take a
tube
> > manifold with nuts along for matching and verification.
>
> Yanking one of the AIR manifolds out to bring to the store shouldn't be a
> problem.  I know of Mondello's rep for being somewhat high-priced, so if I
> can fix this with a trip to the local Home Depot (or whatever), that would
> definitely be high-speed.
>
>   _/_   Scott Alfter (scott at alfter dot usTRAPEZOID minus shape)
>  / v \  '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
> (IIGS(  http://alfter.us/
>  \_^_/  rm -rf /bin/laden
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4800
*********************************
