
oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, May 13 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4887



RE: replacing AC condenser
Re: Convertible top problems
RE: Flexalite fan
Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...
door interchange
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...
Gas tank
RE: Flexalite fan
Re: door interchange
RE:Name-Brand vs.Non-Name-Brand/oileddown
Who knows their '79 A-bodies?
replacing AC condenser
electric fans
Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...
big wheels and tires
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...
Re: Hood ornaments
RE: Hood ornaments
Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...
Re: Flexalite fan
Over heating at highway speed and the TCS
Re: Convertible top problems
Re: Flexalite fan
RE: FS 1968 Ninety Eight convertible
Fwd: Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:43:27 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: replacing AC condenser

> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:30:27 -0500
> From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
> Subject: RE: replacing AC condenser
> 
> The system does not have any leaks, any more.  The condenser 
> is being replaced because of a restriction that is causing 
> the system to not cool properly.  The fittings are loose.  I 
> have had all the fittings off recently.  I found a shop that 
> rebuilt my hoses for me and now all my leaks  are gone.  I 
> just need to replace the condenser.
> 
> As far as having fun I hope this is the end of the fun.   I 
> should have listened 2 years ago when everyone suggested 
> replacing the condenser when converting to R-134a.
> 
>     mike
> 
> Mike Schlottman

Last year I replaced the radiator on my '71, and at some point I loosened 
the condenser for some reason or another. Anyway, with the radiator out of 
the way you can easily access the two mounting brackets on each side of the 
condenser. I discovered it was easier to remove the bracket from the radiator 
support than it was to remove the bolt joining the two sections of the rubber 
isolators. Go figure. 

Anyway, as I was researching radiators I happened to count the fins-per-inch on 
the condenser, and to my dismay discovered that it was only (I think) 9 fpi - by 
comparison, the '98 Wrangler has 22 fpi on the condenser!!! It dawned on me that 
having a condenser with a modern fin design, and therefore better heat transfer 
properties, would really help the AC to cool better. This would definitely be a 
plus out here in Phoenix. You may not need that pusher electric fan if you can 
locate a condenser with a higher fin count.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:56:19 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:42:38 -0400
> From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: Convertible top problems 

snip

> Ken is correct when talking about a conventional hydraulic 
> top like that on his '71 Cutlass or my '69 98.  The car in 
> question here is a '75 Delta 88.
> Like all of the '71-'76 B and E body convertibles, it uses 
> the "scissor" top mechanism.  There are no hydraulics.  The 
> motor acts on the cables via a pulley to raise and lower the 
> top.  

snip 

> Regards,
> Fred

I never knew there was a difference in the top operation. Now it 
makes sense how the "cables" could be the cause of an improperly 
operating top on that vehicle - it just didn't make sense with 
what I knew about the "cables" on my car.

Sorry if I caused any confusion with my earlier post.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:14:00 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:03:51 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

snip

> I got a real kick a cupla weeks ago when a few folks here at work 
> drove their "antiques" in for the day; it was sunny and the temp 
> was the highest of the year at around 84 degrees. 

snip

How can anyone have overheating issues at 84ºF? Sheesh, those folks 
had better NEVER drive their cars out here, or they're likely to just 
spontaneously burst into flames. 

_MY_ overheating issues are trying to keep the engine cool on my DAILY 
DRIVER while cruising with the AC on in 115+ temps in heavy stop-and-go 
rush hour traffic. 
Imagine _those_ folks trying doing that with their 30 plus year old 
vehicles. 

I'm laughing just thinking about it. 
84 degrees - hahahahaha.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:10:37 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...

Uh, well, how do I begin?

I've got my 1979 Calais, and 1972 Olds 98 (the soon-to-be donor) sitting.
Now, I've started the latter around 2 months ago, and started the former
about 6 months ago.

However, it occurs to me.....  In both vehicles, the gasoline is
approaching the 2 years old mark.  The oil is also on the old side, though
not as bad.

I realize I should change the oil, but what should I do about the gas?

If I can avoid it, I'd rather not drain the tanks.  There's not a whole lot
of gas in either one anyway.

But should the gasoline be considered suspect at this point?  Can I add
anything to it then start the cars, such as gas stabilizer, or just dilute
it with fresh gas?

I don't want to put too much in, but I don't want to gum up the works, either.

Thanks!


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:16:06 -0400
From: "Daniel R. Gerow" <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: door interchange

Greetings,

I've been wondering what doors (not door skins) from what years & body
styles interchange on our beloved A bodies, specifically from the '68 - '72
era.

I assume '68 - '69 and '70 - '72 are separate groups, fitting only within
each range, but what about across different body styles: Holiday Coupe, Post
(Sports) Coupe, and Convertible?

If my above assumptions are correct, then '68 - '69 Holiday and Post door
will interchange within those two years/body styles but are Convertible
doors the same found on '68 - '69 Holidays (again, I assume the answer is
yes)?  And is the same true for '70 - '72?

hmmm...much confusion I see in you...  :)

Thanks!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:42:28 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

OK...  per the Flex-a-lite site, the stock replacement fan they offer 
for a Chevy S-10 with a 2.5 liter or 4.3 liter engine is rated at 2800 cfm.

If cfm in any way relates to horsepower output, you need to look into 
something on the order of twice that for your 425.

I would check your ignition/advance - if you are running the vacuum 
advance on direct manifold vacuum rather than a timed vacuum port then 
this can contribute to running hot at low rpm's also.

Finally, additives like 40 Below or Water Wetter have been shown to help 
- - they work very well with straight distilled water or can also be used 
with an anti-freeze mix.  Straight distilled water actually has better 
thermal properties for cooling, but you must mind the freezing and 
boiling points.

FWIW - I had to replace the stock clutch on the 3.8 liter engine in the 
'78 Cutlass a few weeks back - while I was at it I dug out a 7-blade fan 
to replace the stock 5-blade piece, and grabbed a four seasons 
non-thermal clutch that had been sitting on the shelf for a long time 
(prefer thermal units but figured I'd give it a try).  I don't like the 
large drag on the engine when it is cold, but that thing moves some 
SERIOUS air.  The 7-blade fan came off a Cadillac in the salvage yard - 
found 2 of them about 3 years ago and put them away for future use - 
also have a 6 blade somewhere...  all of these blades are roughly the 
same diameter and work with the stock fan shrouds just fine.  I firmly 
believe that there is just NO WAY an electric fan can move nearly the 
amount of air that this 7-blade unit moves - I would be willing to bet 
that one of these with a shroud would surely end your cooling woes.

HTH,
Michael Ecker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:42:31 -0500
From: "Branson Sparks" <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer is what I use in my generator to
keep the gas from breaking down in storage. I would
definitely be suspect of the gas--if it sits too long it
will break down and can "gum up" your engine. According to
the Gold Eagle (parent company of Sta-Bil) web site, adding
the stabilizer to old fuel will not restore it to like-new
condition, though it will keep it from degrading further.
However, they recommend, if your gas is already stale,
filling up the tank with fresh gas and adding a fuel
injector or fuel system cleaner of some sort. Otherwise, if
the engine won't start, "contact a professional
mechanic..."

Riiight.

Hope this helps,
Branson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:19:08 -0500
From: "Martin & Jeanine" <maje16@mchsi.com>
Subject: Gas tank

I need to replace the tank in my 1971 98 sedan and was wondering where I
could purchase one.Does anybody know of any companies that sell new tanks?
Or maybe a good used one. I live in Illinois so I have given up on used
around here.I noticed that this company
http://www.quantaproducts.com/store/
has one available for 73-74 98`s does anyone know if they are the same.Im
sure that it would fit maybe emissions pipes or sender are different.
Anybody dealt with this company before?
Thanks in advance for any help......

Martin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:35:59 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

Awwww, you're just jealous 'cause you haven't seen 84 degrees since 
February : )

M

At 03:14 PM 5/12/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>_MY_ overheating issues are trying to keep the engine cool on my DAILY
>DRIVER while cruising with the AC on in 115+ temps in heavy stop-and-go
>rush hour traffic.
>Imagine _those_ folks trying doing that with their 30 plus year old
>vehicles.
>
>I'm laughing just thinking about it.
>84 degrees - hahahahaha.

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:26:39 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: door interchange

Hi Dan!

I think 68 and 69 are separate doors.  The difference being the 68 was the
last year of the vent windows, and the 69 had no vent windows.  Other than
that, the doors should interchange fine.  As far as 70-72, others will know
more than I.

Enjoy!
Rob [Easton bound tomorrow]
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel R. Gerow" <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: door interchange

> If my above assumptions are correct, then '68 - '69 Holiday and Post door
> will interchange within those two years/body styles but are Convertible
> doors the same found on '68 - '69 Holidays (again, I assume the answer is
> yes)?  And is the same true for '70 - '72?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:52:28 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net (Randy Hermsen)
Subject: RE:Name-Brand vs.Non-Name-Brand/oileddown

Hello
This sorta fits the bill for what i went threw with a certain Dogge van today.
Installed a NEW sealed power external oil pump,,drove home with no problems,bum lifter pumped right UP,was my reason for changin the pump for mo pressure.
Cold in the morning i start her up for work....PPPPPPSSSSSTTTTTT ????
Look unner van there is 5 litres of oil on my driveway and the wubber ring on the fram oily filter is blown right off :(
Take the 58, (Olds content) to the nightmare store and buy new oily filter,,(Was a bum filter?).
Screw on,turn key... SQUIRT!...wasnt the filter:(
Relief valve must be stuck?
Swap relief valves from ole pump to new.....SQUIRT!...not the relief valve.
Take off made way DOWNSOUTH Sealed power oil pump, exchange at nightmare store for new pump,,,,turn key,,,PURRRRRR...NO PROBLEMS!
With out having the pump to examine i can guess the bore in the relief valve was bad from factory.
Golden rule,,,just cause ya just bought it BRAND NEW, dont mean its any good!
Randy(Slippery)H.
Maple Ditch B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:08:53 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Who knows their '79 A-bodies?

The Fiancee got a call from a lady the other night.  She was so glad to talk to a woman about her '79 Cutlass.  Didn't want to talk to any men. :(

Seems she wants to sell her car (or donate it to the Salvation Army.  It is:

'79 Cutlass Supreme coupe.  One owner.  54k miles.  Garage kept.  She sent us some photos today.  Looks real clean.  But something didn't jive...

It's definintely a Supreme by the body emblems.  But it's got a Calais grille on it.  And it's got plaid seats and door panels.  Not like that old Chrysler Highlander plaid, but a tone-on-tone plaid.  I thought maybe the seats were recovered, but the door panels, too?  And she says original.  Not a recommended color combination, either.  Dk maroon over silver in that Sport paint scheme.

Nicely equipped - power windows and locks, tilt and cruise, air, electric defog, buckets and console, sport wheel.  All the extra chrome moldings.  SS wheels.  Engine unknown.  A sharp looker.  I think the fiancee wants to buy it.

So I did some checking in my sales materials and here it's some kind of special mid-year package - called the Custom Appearance Package (sold for $263 with the buckets).  Specifically lists the Silver/Maroon paint, two-tone plaid upholstery, Calais grille and sport wheel.

Anybody familiar with these?  Are they common?  I don't think I've ever seen one before. 

What's the value on these units?  I've not been following them.  My latest Old Cars Value Guide (October '03) says a #2 (extremely well kept original) is about $2,650.

Thoughts, comments, criticisms, suggestions, advice?

Thanks,

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:32:21 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: replacing AC condenser

12 May 2004  "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org> writes:
> What is the easiest way to replace the air conditioning condenser on 
> a 70 442 automatic?   It looks like the easiest thing would be to 
> remove the radiator.  Removing the radiator may not be required, but 
> it looks like it would make getting to the mounting bolts much 
> easier.

> Mike Schlottman

There might be another possible way, but removing the radiator 
would be the most straightforward and least fustrating method. 

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:29:33 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: electric fans

In a message dated 5/12/04 Central Daylight Time, mschlott@spe.org
writes:
> I'm looking for recommendations, for or against 
> using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to 
> the clutch 
> fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.   
> Will the 
> electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not running. 

There is no way electric fans can compare to the capacity of a big 
engine driven clutch fan.  But they can serve other uses.  

Sitting still in traffic, your engine might be fine.  But your A/C
condenser, 
with no air flow, is getting hotter and hotter.  This strains the A/C and

reduces its efficiency.  I put a pair of 12" electrics in front of it. 
They 
come on at half speed (wired in series) when a sensor sees a hot 
A/C condensor.  This shouldn't happen at any kind of speed.  

Another sensor, on the engine, turns the fans on full speed if the 
engine gets hotter than normal.  This one will continue to run till 
some drop in temp, even if the key is turned off.  The main idea 
here is to cool down the engine (without boilover) when shut down 
hot.   Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:02:37 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...

Get the crap out of there. Drain the tanks. Especially if it is small 
amounts, why risk anything and not have a clean start. If there are any 
problems down the line with how the engines run, you will never know if the 
fuel is an issue.

Buy two large (5 gallon) fuel tanks and fill them up with the old gunk. The 
lawn mower will love it, or  you could put it in your carbureted daily 
driver at a 1:20 dilution rate.

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:22:10 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: big wheels and tires

Some time ago, we had an interesting discussion about the large wheel fad.
Tonight in the Tucson Citizen was an interesting perspective of the custom
big wheel and tire fad.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=local&story_id=051204a1_cruiserm
ain

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:37:55 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

a bit late on this one but from my experience a heavy duty clutch and 8 blade factory blade work the
best as primary cooling, add a oil cooler and there should be no reason for a extra fan. but in my
case I ran a Mercedes Benzes pusher  fan. from a older car. the best 30.00 I ever spent at a salvage
yard. was set to come on at 200 deg and shut off at 16deg . also wired into a/c power feed.  but the
car rarely saw 200 deg temps even idling.
Ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan


> I'm with Milton, I'v not found an electric fan that can keep up with a stout
> v-8 in all conditions.
> Although I am intreaged with the flexlites you guys posted. If they now have
> a variable switch in them they will not draw full amprage except when you
> are hot ideling, and not runn full bore every time it comes on.
> Allen Schwartz
> A&L Enterprises
> mycj@tds.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Flexalite fan
>
>
> > > However... I still find while in heavy driving, traffic etc... @ an idle
> > it
> > > can get up to 220degrees ....
> > > If I am driving 30 plus mph...no prob...it cools to about 190...
> > >
> > > I am assuming my 2500cfm is not enough airflow...
> >
> >
> > Yes, not enough airflow. I don't think any type of electric fan
> arrangement
> > can draw enough air through a radiator for proper cooling at under 25 MPH
> > with a V8 engine in a '60s-'70s vehicle.
> >
> > I believe a large fan blade on a good fan clutch inside a complete
> radiator
> > shroud with the fan properly spaced front-to-rear and side-to-side is the
> > best cooling scheme.
> >
> > Milton Schick
> > 1964 442 Cutlass
> > imp@theriver.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:56:06 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...

if youre not sure about the gas in the tank simply drain it into a gas can and dispose of it. get a
electric external  fuel pump hook to supply line to fuel pump and other end run a hose into the can.
then lengthen wires to reach battery as required.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Vahabzadeh" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca>; <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:10 PM
Subject: Precautions? Old gas and oil in car...


> Uh, well, how do I begin?
>
> I've got my 1979 Calais, and 1972 Olds 98 (the soon-to-be donor) sitting.
> Now, I've started the latter around 2 months ago, and started the former
> about 6 months ago.
>
> However, it occurs to me.....  In both vehicles, the gasoline is
> approaching the 2 years old mark.  The oil is also on the old side, though
> not as bad.
>
> I realize I should change the oil, but what should I do about the gas?
>
> If I can avoid it, I'd rather not drain the tanks.  There's not a whole lot
> of gas in either one anyway.
>
> But should the gasoline be considered suspect at this point?  Can I add
> anything to it then start the cars, such as gas stabilizer, or just dilute
> it with fresh gas?
>
> I don't want to put too much in, but I don't want to gum up the works, either.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> - Joe Vahabzadeh
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:29:39 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Hood ornaments

> Hello!  Are any of you aware of a source for antique Oldsmobile hood
> ornaments?  Thanks!

Umm.. can you be more specific?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:30:16 -0500
From: JulieM.Johnson@state.sd.us
Subject: RE: Hood ornaments

>From the 1900-1925 era.  Thanks!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cullen [mailto:david.cullen@snet.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:30 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Hood ornaments


> Hello!  Are any of you aware of a source for antique Oldsmobile hood 
> ornaments?  Thanks!

Umm.. can you be more specific?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:38:35 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Precautions?  Old gas and oil in car...

At Thursday, 13 May 2004, you wrote:

>if youre not sure about the gas in the tank simply drain it 
>into a gas can and dispose of it.

Want to get yer tank drained quickly? Drive your car to the local 
Yarde, then tell the immigrants you want it drained. They'll pick 
it up about 6 feet with a forklift then one will quickly punch a 
hole in the bottom of the tank while the others gather, like moths 
around a flame, with buckets to catch the flowing gas. Be sure you 
have plenty of gas in there or they may get upset at going through 
all that work for virtually nothing  :o))))))

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:54:37 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

I'm using a couple of OEM fans from, IIRC, an '80s FWD Buick Regal.  
They move some pretty serious air (enough to suck up and hold a red rag  
to the grill:  
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/images/olds/electric_fan/suck-it- 
up.jpg).
I don't entirely trust my (used) Autometer temp gauge, but my usual  
temp seems to hover around 190-220. Sometimes it's that hot at speed,  
sometimes not - that's why I think that the sender may be flaky. Need  
to spend the $15 for a new sender to make sure.
I should note that I have a small-block, and a 4-row radiator. I've  
also upgraded to a 130-amp (chrome!) alternator to handle the fans and  
future stereo upgrades, though the 90A I had was fine until the  
regulator died, and the rebuild kit I put in it also lost the regulator  
within about 3 weeks. I just said to heck with it and got a lifetime  
warranted high-output jobbie from a local rebuilder.

The write-up on the fan install is at:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/snoopy_fans.html

Despite this, I don't have any problem with using a factory clutch-fan.  
I couldn't because of some oddity with my engine mounts, frame, or core  
support. Apparently the engine settled, and the factory fan would hit  
the factory shroud when I tried to put it back on one day (had been  
running a flex fan for years.) The fan and shroud are both the original  
parts, as the fan was on the car when I bought it! In my youth and  
ignorance, I put the flex fan on some years back. I'll eventually get  
around to addressing the real problem, but in the meantime, the factory  
GM electric fans were dirt cheap at the local U-pull-it, especially  
since it was one of those all you can carry sales! :)

krw
On May 12, 2004, at 4:20 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:38:54 -0700
> From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
> Subject: Re: Flexalite fan
>
>> Question for the group.  I'm looking for recommendations, for or  
>> against
> using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to the
> clutch fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.
> Will the electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not  
> running.
>
>
> Yes, I believe the crossectional area of the electric fan assembly will
> block at least some air flow, which could cause higher temperatures  
> when the
> fan is off. The trick will be to get the electric fan to increase air  
> flow
> over the amount the fan assembly blocks. Also, the irregular shape of  
> the
> assembly could cause turbulence, which will also interfere with air  
> flow.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                          
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                              
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans:  
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31!  
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be  
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:29:11 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: Over heating at highway speed and the TCS

Now that we have beat up overheating at idle pretty well lets talk about over heating at highway speed.  My car which is mostly stock, seems to do a pretty good job of cooling.  Timing is set around 12 degrees BTDC.  Vacuum advance is connected to ported vacuum on the carb through the TCV switch, but the TCS solenoid, has been bypassed.  I have a 160 degree thermostat, which is the only reason I know that I may have cooling issues at highway speeds.  


When cruising at 65 or so, which is about 3000 RPMs in my car, the temperature gauge creeps up a little over where it would be under in town driving conditions.  It never gets as high as when I had the 195 degree thermostat, so I'm not real worried about it.  From this, it seems like my cooling is border line at highway speeds.  

It sounds to me that this could potentially be caused by not using the TCS solenoid, or possibly a lean condition at cruise speed.  I swear I'm going to install an oxygen sensor so I don't have to guess at these fuel mixture questions, it's just low on the priority list right now.

What do you guys think?

By the way, my car is a 70 442 with a JM-20-22 cam and about 9.5/1 compression.

     mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:43:47 -0400
From: robert.demuth@prudential.com
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

Scott,

You've already disconnected the drive cables from the motor and tested
that.  Hook them back up to the motor, then disconnect both of them at the
other end ... as you called it, the "other gear boxes at the main pivot
point of the frame" ... by unthreading the cables' fittings and pulling
them out from the gear drives.  Then, run the top motor and see if it
struggles moving the cables with no load on the far ends.  This way you'll
be able to see if it is the cables themselves that are straining the motor.
If the motor strains just turning the cables, I think then you'll have
found your problem ... replace them.  However, if they spin just fine and
the motor is under no load (as I suspect will happen), then you'll know the
cables are not your problem.

With the drive cables disconnected from the gears, you can put the top up
and down manually.  I suggest getting a friend and trying to move the top
up and down with one of you on each side.  See if you can feel where it's
binding up, and _clean_ then lubricate that point (i.e. don't just spray
with lithium grease, clean it out first with some kind of solvent, then
lubricate it).  At any rate, thoroughly cleaning out and lubricating the
main pivot point gear mechanisms is a good idea.

When I bought my 72 88 3 years ago, the top was inoperable and the cables
were disconnected.  The motor turned the cables just fine, though.  I could
put the top up and down manually by myself, but it was pretty tough, and
I'm a larger than average guy.  In my case, it was the pivot point gear
mechanisms that were dirty and needed lubricating.  I dissolved out all the
dirty grease with carb cleaner, wiped them out nice and clean with some
rags, then freshly packed them with wheel bearing grease (which is what I
had on hand at the time).  After servicing them in that manner and
re-hooking the cables, the top worked, and it's been fine for almost 3
years.

HTH,
Bob DeMuth.
'72 88 conv.
some other stuff


Scott wrote:

>>>>>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:47:48 -0400
From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

Thanks Ken for the tip, but as Fred stated, we're talking different kinds
of
cables here for different kinds of top mechanisms.  I used a half a can of
spray lithium grease on everything that moves and I am getting some action
now.  When half way up or down, everything is pulling together to move the
top per design -- I think.  But the system really strains when the entire
weight of the frame needs to move.  It will not go up on its own and has
lots of trouble getting started going down, especially on the driver's
side.
With the cables disconnected from the motor's gearbox, the motor hums
nicely
in both directions.  So now I'm thinking the cables or the other gear boxes
they connect to at the main pivot point of the frame (just below the rear
quarter windows) are the problem.  The motor is hot as hell now, so I have
to stop playing for a while.  The mechanics of this thing seem fairly
straight forward, so if not cables I'm at a loss.  But what the heck could
go wrong with the cables?
<<<<<

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:02:01 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

At Thursday, 13 May 2004, you wrote:
>I don't have any problem with using a factory clutch-fan. 
>I couldn't because of some oddity with my engine mounts, 
>frame, or core support.

AHHA.... you must have one them ultrarare Moneydulluh Supremes with 
the offset engine, eh  :o))))))))

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:22:53 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: FS 1968 Ninety Eight convertible

FYI, I have my Olds on ebay now at $4500 w/ no reserve. That is what I paid
for it when it was a basket case mechanically, and I think it's a bargain
for any buyer. I also have it on cctol.com asking $5500, and assuming that I
might have to knock a little off to close the deal. Please spread the word
if you can. It's a major plus if somebody could pick it up by 5/20. That is
my deadline for getting it out of where it currently is. I do have another
place to move it to, but would rather not have to move it if at all possible
(because moving it takes time and costs money).

A couple of people have commented about the surface rust on the bottoms of
the doors. All I can say is that if it were perfect, I wouldn't be asking
$4500 for it. At least I'm showing the bad along with the good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6407&item=
2478188727

If the above URL doesn't work for you for any reason, you can just enter the
auction number 2478188727 into the ebay search box, or visit my personal
page at http://johnnasta.com/6898

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:28:20 EDT
From: Oldsfire1@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th

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Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:25:27 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th
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Subject: Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:09:40 -0700
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- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Cy Gilson=20
To: Andrea Thorpe ; Arthurcoke@aol.com ; Ballard Bullion ; Bill Flynn ; Clin=
t Cole ; Clyde & Flo George ; Don Hill ; Gary Josephson ; Hersh Eaves ; Hugh=
 Brown ; Jack L. Richardson ; Joe Slama ; John & Mary Beth Weisend ; John Ha=
le ; John Pope ; Kathy & Dave Hart ; Ken Whetstone ; Kim Gosnell ; Larry Bed=
dome ; Larry O'Leary ; Maureen & John ; Paul Gosnell ; Rkirkevold@aol.com ;=20=
Ron Shackelford ; Scott Crawford ; Steve Demory ; Tom Ezell=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th




      > > Don't buy gas on May 19th
      > >
      > >
      > > IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES DID N=
OT
      > > PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME TIME,=20=
THE
      OIL
      > > COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS=20=
OF
      OVER
      > > 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OIL COMP=
ANIES.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > THEREFORE MAY 19TH HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR =20=
behind
      "
      > > DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE DROP OF
      GASOLINE
      > > THAT DAY.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS=20=
MANY
      > > PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > WAITING ON THIS ADMINISTRATION TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES I=
S NOT
      > > GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRI=
CES
      THAT
      > > THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOING UP BUT=
 AT
      THE
      > > SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKING COMP=
ANIES
      > ARE
      > > FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING TH=
AT IS
      > > SHIPPED. THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS, MEDICAL
      SUPPLIES
      > > ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONE=20=
DAY,
      WE
      > > WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYON=
E YOU
      > > KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE MAY 19TH A DAY THAT THE CITIZEN=
S OF
      THE
      > > UNITED STATES SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >

      .=20
            =20
    =20

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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A   titl=
e=3Dcygilson@cox.net href=3D"mailto:cygilson@cox.net">Cy Gilson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dfaithabundance@cox.net   href=3D"mailto:faithabun=
dance@cox.net">Andrea Thorpe</A> ; <A   title=3DArthurcoke@aol.com href=3D"m=
ailto:Arthurcoke@aol.com">Arthurcoke@aol.com</A>=20
; <A title=3Dbbpi@cox.net href=3D"mailto:bbpi@cox.net">Ballard Bullion</A> ;=
 <A   title=3Dwflynn1@cox.net href=3D"mailto:wflynn1@cox.net">Bill Flynn</A>=
 ; <A   title=3Dclint@ultrasw.com href=3D"mailto:clint@ultrasw.com">Clint Co=
le</A> ; <A   title=3Dctflo004@aol.com href=3D"mailto:ctflo004@aol.com">Clyd=
e &amp; Flo George</A>=20
; <A title=3DUrTruth@aol.com href=3D"mailto:UrTruth@aol.com">Don Hill</A> ;=20=
<A   title=3Dgaryjosephson@mindspring.com   href=3D"mailto:garyjosephson@min=
dspring.com">Gary Josephson</A> ; <A   title=3Dhre41@frontiernet.net href=3D=
"mailto:hre41@frontiernet.net">Hersh Eaves</A>=20
; <A title=3Dhbrown@enter.net href=3D"mailto:hbrown@enter.net">Hugh Brown</A=
> ; <A   title=3Dsc1163@worldnet.att.net href=3D"mailto:sc1163@worldnet.att.=
net">Jack L.=20
Richardson</A> ; <A title=3Djls373@cox.net href=3D"mailto:jls373@cox.net">Jo=
e=20
Slama</A> ; <A title=3Dgrannybeth@comcast.net   href=3D"mailto:grannybeth@co=
mcast.net">John &amp; Mary Beth Weisend</A> ; <A   title=3Djhale40@cableone.=
net href=3D"mailto:jhale40@cableone.net">John Hale</A> ; <A   title=3Djohnfp=
ope@cox.net href=3D"mailto:johnfpope@cox.net">John Pope</A> ; <A   title=3DD=
NKHart@aol.com href=3D"mailto:DNKHart@aol.com">Kathy &amp; Dave Hart</A> ;=20
<A title=3Dkenwhetstone@cox.net href=3D"mailto:kenwhetstone@cox.net">Ken=20
Whetstone</A> ; <A title=3DMailKimG@aol.com href=3D"mailto:MailKimG@aol.com"=
>Kim=20
Gosnell</A> ; <A title=3Dbeddome@commspeed.net   href=3D"mailto:beddome@comm=
speed.net">Larry Beddome</A> ; <A title=3DWvOcCa@aol.com   href=3D"mailto:Wv=
OcCa@aol.com">Larry O'Leary</A> ; <A title=3DJuneabelle@aol.com   href=3D"ma=
ilto:Juneabelle@aol.com">Maureen &amp; John</A> ; <A   title=3Dusnagoose@aol=
.com href=3D"mailto:usnagoose@aol.com">Paul Gosnell</A> ; <A   title=3DRkirk=
evold@aol.com href=3D"mailto:Rkirkevold@aol.com">Rkirkevold@aol.com</A>=20
; <A title=3Dshacq@cox.net href=3D"mailto:shacq@cox.net">Ron Shackelford</A>=
 ; <A   title=3Dsscrawford@cox.net href=3D"mailto:sscrawford@cox.net">Scott=20=
Crawford</A> ;=20
<A title=3Ddbacksteve@webtv.net href=3D"mailto:dbacksteve@webtv.net">Steve=20
Demory</A> ; <A title=3Dtezell@uswest.net href=3D"mailto:tezell@uswest.net">=
Tom=20
Ezell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:42 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Fw: Don't buy gas on May 19th</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%"=20=
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION       style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%">
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; Don't buy gas on May 19th</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED=20
      STATES DID NOT</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE=20=
SAME=20
      TIME, THE</DIV>
      <DIV>OIL</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH=20=
A=20
      NET LOSS OF</DIV>
      <DIV>OVER</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF T=
HE=20
      OIL COMPANIES.</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; THEREFORE MAY 19TH HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT=
 UP=20
      THEIR&nbsp;&nbsp;behind</DIV>
      <DIV>"</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SING=
LE=20
      DROP OF</DIV>
      <DIV>GASOLINE</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; THAT DAY.</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-=
MAIL=20
      TO AS MANY</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE=20=
WORD=20
      OUT.</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; WAITING ON THIS ADMINISTRATION TO STEP IN AND CONTROL T=
HE=20
      PRICES IS NOT</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CON=
TROL=20
      IN PRICES</DIV>
      <DIV>THAT</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE G=
OING=20
      UP BUT AT</DIV>
      <DIV>THE</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES,=20
      TRUCKING COMPANIES</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; ARE</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON=20
      EVERYTHING THAT IS</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; SHIPPED. THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS=
,=20
      MEDICAL</DIV>
      <DIV>SUPPLIES</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE=
=20
      AFTER ONE DAY,</DIV>
      <DIV>WE</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL=
 TO=20
      EVERYONE YOU</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE MAY 19TH A DAY THAT=20=
THE=20
      CITIZENS OF</DIV>
      <DIV>THE</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt; UNITED STATES SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&gt;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>.</DIV></TD></TR>
  <TR>
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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4887
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