
oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, May 18 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4894



Re: Value of Mondello BB heads?
Re: Value of Mondello BB heads?
high torque starter install
Re: high torque starter install
Re: high torque starter install
RE: !966 Dynamic convertible windshield needed
RE: tips & trix
Re: high torque starter install
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed
Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed
rust proofing
homeless transmission
OT - (2)  Lincolns For Sale
Re: Value of Mondello BB heads? -- not much
Re: high torque starter install
Re: high torque starter install
Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed
Re: Value of Mondello BB heads? -- not much
Fw: Qjet
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Re: homeless transmission
Re: Should I buy 72 Cutlass Conv. ???
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Re: Should I buy 72 Cutlass Conv. ???
1968-72 A-Body door hinges
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
Adjusting Hydraulic Valves - Cold or Hot?
Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:03:16 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Value of Mondello BB heads?

George,

> I have a chance to pick up mondello modified BB heads. They started out
> with C heads, got hardened seats, SS valves and come with mondello roller
> rockers and pushrods. Mileage about 20k. I assume they got the mondello
> porting which some of you guys don't care for, but I am postive it can't
be
> BAD either.


Mondello didn't hurt the heads, it's just their methods may give only a
5-10% power increase whereas AFR modified heads will give a 15-20% power
increase, all depending on the other engine modifications.


> Rebuilding a set of BB heads locally would set me back $400. I figure they
> are at least worth that. How much are the mondello roller rockers?
>
> What would you pay for the set of parts?


What's he asking, and how desperate is he? I'd try $300 and work up, trying
to keep the price as low as possible. They do have 20K on them. They're not
pristine. You don't know what's gone through them, like drag racing with no
air cleaner and open carb, with dirt and bugs going through the valve seats.
Don't laugh. Engines that are raced without an air cleaner can and do eat
bugs.

Milton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:41:40 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Value of Mondello BB heads?

Thanks Milton, this is really helpful. I will skip on these heads. The 
asking price is high in the sky and it is very unlikely I'll be able to 
pick these up for $300. That would be a good price, that would practically 
be like paying for the porting and I could still have them refreshed with 
new guides and a valve job.

While cars are my main hobby, I believe my time is worth something too. So 
instead of slapping a set of unknowns on an engine I am building, I'd have 
them redone and end up spending more $$$.

I don't need a set of heads, really. These aren't correct for the 442 and 
there is no big block in sight for the cutlass, that 350 is barely broken 
in and does a great job cruising.

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:53:35 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: high torque starter install

List:

I got that aftermarket high torque starter I inquired about earlier on. Put 
it on today. I bought one through ebay, a CVR brand. I didn't go with 
Summit because I had some $ left in PayPal and wanted to use it on this 
purchase.

Anyway, fit is very good and the quality of workmanship is remarkable. The 
only minus I'd give it is the fact that the contacts end up on the exhaust 
side and the fact that they have METRIC hardware on there: The allen heads 
that fix it on the adjustable mount are 5mm hex and there is another 
smaller metric allen head bolt to hold the ignition switch wire. While this 
is all fine to install at home, I think if you get stranded, you'd hate to 
have metric hardware on critical components. I like to keep things simple. 
Having metric hardware on a 71 year American car is potentially a PITA.

Reason for the metric hardware is obviously the fact that these starters 
are manufactured mainly for use on European and later model high 
performance cars and engines. I had installed one on my import from the 
Vaterland a while back and it looked remarkably similar to this starter!

It turns over great and I am positive that the starter will give good 
service. The gearing very clearly strains the battery much less than the 
stock unit. That means it will need less juice to turn over which then 
means that non perfect contacts and ground will not be detrimental. While I 
am not planning on letting things get out of shape, I am always trying to 
build a reliable system. I like to take road trips. Don't want to get 
stranded in the Mojave desert! ;)

George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:20:03 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: high torque starter install

George,

> It turns over great and I am positive that the starter will give good
> service. The gearing very clearly strains the battery much less than the
> stock unit. That means it will need less juice to turn over which then
> means that non perfect contacts and ground will not be detrimental.


I don't mean to be critical, but that should not be the case. The starter
spins the engine so fast and the engine fires so quick, it just seems like
there is less strain on the battery.

Lets say the stock starter produces 5 HP to spin the engine at 500 RPM to
start it. Then lets say the reduction gear drive starter spins the engine at
maybe 750 RPM. That higher RPM will require a little more power, so maybe
the new starter has to produce 7 HP. Also, the gear friction in the gear
reduction system will require some power, maybe one HP. So in this example,
that's a net 3 HP increase, which needs more voltage to produce that power
increase. The catch is the higher revving gear reduction starter spins the
engine quicker, causing the engine to catch and run quicker than with the
stock starter, which might use less electricity over the time it takes to
start the engine, as compared to the stock starter. So, on one hand you have
an initial increase in electrical demand, but the duration may be shorter.
Remember, you can't get increased power for free. There has to be a
trade-off. Power/energy in must equal power/energy out.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:38:48 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: high torque starter install

Milton:

Good points. The friction and power needed to turn an engine over slow is 
relatively higher (if you normalize by the rpm) than if you turn it faster. 
Especially the valve train will move over much easier, if you go crank it 
over at higher rpm.
As you stated, it will start quicker too. One reason being that you'll make 
much better compression turning over quickly. Speed is on your side!

The 442 has a stock HD starter and it does pretty well compared to the 
aftermarket unit. If nothing else though, the aftermarket unit is light and 
a pleasure to put on. It must weigh 1/3 of the stock starter.

Take care, George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:15:42 -0700
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: RE: !966 Dynamic convertible windshield needed

Just so you know, this item should be common to all Olds 88's, 98's, &
Starfires from 1965 to 1970. I was able to get a tinted one through my
interior shop a few years ago. 

I remember them complaining that they forgot how heavy they were relative to
the newer cars.

Cheers,
cf 



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of kenneth treharn
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:58 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: !966 Dynamic convertible windshield needed


Hello Anyone have or know where I can get a front
windshield for a Dynamic convertible?  Thanks, Ken


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:31:03 -0400
From: "Eric Holcombe" <eholcombe@engineeringservicesgroup.com>
Subject: RE: tips & trix

Steve, I have an extra I believe. It's yours if you want it.

Eric Holcombe

<-----Original Message-----
<... and where might one find cap plugs?

<I also need to get a plug for my 200-4R's output. Don't have a spare yoke,
<unfortunately  ;o(

<SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:56:29 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: high torque starter install

At Monday, 17 May 2004, you wrote:

>Lets say the stock starter produces 5 HP

Actually, it's very likely considerably LESS than 5 hp. For example,
let's assume the total starter current draw is 200 amps at a battery 
voltage of 12 volts (in reality, it's more likely something like 
125 amps at maybe 9-10 volts, if you measure the voltage right at 
the starter). 200 amps at 12 volts is 2400 watts. I don't rember 
exactly, but one horsepower consumes something close to 746 watts.
.. call it 750 watts. Thus, 2400 watts is about 3.2 horsepower. 
And that's way on the high side. Take the more-likely-reality case 
of 125 amps at 10 volts and we get 1250 watts, or about 1.7 horsepower.


>...in this example, that's a net 3 HP increase, which needs 
>more voltage

.... more CURRENT... or rather, the new starter should be consuming 
more POWER (assuming the voltage remains the same). Electrical power 
is voltage times current.

>The catch is the higher revving gear reduction starter spins 
>the engine quicker, causing the engine to catch and run quicker 
>than with the stock starter, which might use less electricity 

...... less electrical POWER.

>... over the time it takes to start the engine, as compared to 
>the stock starter. So, on one hand you have an initial increase 
>in electrical demand, but the duration may be shorter.
>Remember, you can't get increased power for free. There has to 
>be a trade-off. Power/energy in must equal power/energy out.

Right, conservation of energy.

In the olden days, I distinctly rember watching my tachs run up to 
maybe 250-300 rpm while starting my Poncho 421s and later, a Ch*bby 
350 in an old '66 P/U truck. Since putting the tach back in my '88 
full-sized wagon with its Olds 307, I've been noticing the tach spins 
up to 600-700 rpm while the engine's starting. (Normally, once the 
307 has warmed up, you can just about GLANCE at the ignition switch,
mentally twist the key to start, and the things catches IMMEDIATELY;
it has to crank for a few seconds only when cold)

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:13:59 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

- --part1_c8.478f13f4.2ddb6617_boundary
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In a message dated 5/17/04 9:51:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
apenello@netwiz.net writes:

> >>Subject: Blue smoke on Deceleration??
> >>The problem is, when I let OFF the gas, I get
> >>blue(ish) smoke out of the tailpipes. So if I do a WOT run and let OFF
> the
> >>gas, I get smoke. When I come off the freeway and start to brake, I get
> >>blue smoke.

Albert,
       You didn't mention what transmission you are running in the car.  If 
it's an automatic, pull the vacuum line from the intake to the modulator and 
check to see if it is wet with tranny fluid.  If the modulator's diaphragm has 
ruptured it can allow transmission fluid to be sucked back into the intake 
through the vacuum lines causing smoke under conditions like you describe.  I've 
seen it happen a few times.  It's also an easy fix.  Good luck, let us know 
what happens.
Steve D

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 5/17/04 9:51:16=20=
PM Pacific Daylight Time, apenello@netwiz.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><I>&gt;&gt;Subject: Blue smoke=20=
on Deceleration??<BR>
&gt;&gt;The problem is, when I let OFF the gas, I get<BR>
&gt;&gt;blue(ish) smoke out of the tailpipes. So if I do a WOT run and let O=
FF<BR>
the<BR>
&gt;&gt;gas, I get smoke. When I come off the freeway and start to brake, I=20=
get<BR>
&gt;&gt;blue smoke.</BLOCKQUOTE></I><BR>
<BR>
Albert,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You didn't mention what transmission yo=
u are running in the car.&nbsp; If it's an automatic, pull the vacuum line f=
rom the intake to the modulator and check to see if it is wet with tranny fl=
uid.&nbsp; If the modulator's diaphragm has ruptured it can allow transmissi=
on fluid to be sucked back into the intake through the vacuum lines causing=20=
smoke under conditions like you describe.&nbsp; I've seen it happen a few ti=
mes.&nbsp; It's also an easy fix.&nbsp; Good luck, let us know what happens.=
<BR>
Steve D</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_c8.478f13f4.2ddb6617_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:47:12 EDT
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed

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In a message dated 5/18/2004 12:47:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
imp@theriver.com writes:
Everett,

There should be 2 rear bumpers at a local you-pull-it in Tucson off of the
two '64 F-85 4-doors sitting there. Do you want me to check if they're still
there?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
That would be great Mike, dents no problems just no rust thru.

Thanks again

Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

- -------------------------------1084888031
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/18/2004 12:47:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, imp@the=
river.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Everett,<BR><BR>There should be 2 rear bumpers=
 at a local you-pull-it in Tucson off of the<BR>two '64 F-85 4-doors sitting=
 there. Do you want me to check if they're still<BR>there?<BR><BR>Milton Sch=
ick<BR>1964 442 Cutlass</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>That would be great Mike, dents no problems just no rust thru.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks again</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA# 1961&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</DIV></BODY></H=
TML>

- -------------------------------1084888031--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:59:01 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed

There is one in Montville Connecticut at Three Mad Men Auto 800-243-0874.
They say the chrome is peeling, so I assume it's a core.

Otherwise, All American Classics in WA has two of them 800-955-4999. Both
are listed as cores.

John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:19:32 -0400
From: "sherman f higgins" <goodfoot@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: rust proofing

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hello Gentlemen,

my oldsmobile has old rust proofing that has a tar like texture its staring to beak down in some areas, is there any type of paint that could be applied to seal the areas that are not breaking down. 

sherman f higgins
goodfoot@ix.netcom.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Hello Gentlemen,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>my oldsmobile has old rust proofing that has a tar like texture its staring to beak down in some areas, is there any type of paint that could be&nbsp;applied to seal the areas that are not breaking down. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>sherman f higgins</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:goodfoot@ix.netcom.com">goodfoot@ix.netcom.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:31:49 -0400
From: "sherman f higgins" <goodfoot@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: homeless transmission

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I plan on installing the original two speed transmission in my 65 442, and will have and will be removing the th350 would anybody be interested in getting the th350?


sherman f higgins
goodfoot@ix.netcom.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>
<DIV>I plan on installing the original two speed transmission in my 65 442, and will have and will be removing the th350 would anybody be interested in getting the th350?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>sherman f higgins</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:goodfoot@ix.netcom.com">goodfoot@ix.netcom.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:41:42 -0400
From: "Eric J McTague" <oldsluvr@comcast.net>
Subject: OT - (2)  Lincolns For Sale

Well folks the time has come ...

I've _been_ trying to sell my LSC ... but now I'm selling the TC as well.

No, it's not that I don't love either one ... but I really have my heart set
on a Mercury Marauder. I was going to wait on the MM & buy a used 04
sometime in 2005/6 ... but I really really want NEW, if I can swing it
somehow. It sucks that it took me quite awhile to find the "right" TC only
to be selling it just over a year later, but I've been going back & forth
with my decision ... & figure since I like both the 84-89 AND the 95-97
Signatures & Cartiers ... I'm sure something will turn up again. Maybe if
FoMoCo didn't drop the ball SOOOOOOOOOO bad on advertising the MM, it would
have stuck around for a few more model years instead of just 03-04 ... & I
could be more patient in getting one.

Anyway on to some brief details ...

1) - 92 Mark VII LSC - @ 8500 ORIGINAL miles(yes eight thousand five
hundred)

2) 97 Town Car - Cartier @ 59000 original miles - born & bred in FL.

The 92 LSC is literally LIKE NEW ... still smells new when you open the
door.

Every option that year you could get, except for the cell phone or special
edition appearance package(monochromatic black or red).

It's Arctic White with Mocha leather.

The 97 Cartier has every option for the year as well  ... cept' the ride
control package. Rare color combo of Cordovan(burgundy) in & out(most 95-97
Cartier were ivory in & out, or silver ext/gray int in 95 from what I've
seen out there).

The LSC has been in Hemmings Motor News for $15000.00.

I'd like to see NO less than $12500.00 for it(seeing is believing).

I'd like to get $11500.00 for the TC.

I created a Yahoo ID specifically to post photos of the LSC when I put it
back in Hemmings, the TC photos are there as well. Anyone SERIOUSLY
interested please email me at that ID to keep things a bit simpler on my
end -

lsc4sale@yahoo.com

I will be happy to provide more details on either car.

Photos -

http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/lsc4sale/

Sorry about the quality, I should have used a higher quality setting on my
digital camera.

There is without a doubt, going to be some regret on selling BOTH of these
cars, but as they say ....

"You can't have your cake & eat it too".

I sincerely wish I could keep BOTH ...... AND have my MM, but that's not
going to happen.

A 2004 MM could very well be one of the LAST new cars I'd ever buy .....

As the design of most cars as a whole(or in general) seems to turn me off
... more & MORE each year.

Too bad the "general"(General Motors) hasn't made anything since the
mid-upper 80's that I really ever had a desire for.

Regards,

Eric

OCA # 032852 - TC # 836 - ROA # 9801
84 Cutlass - 72 Toro
92 LSC - 97 Town Car
00 Solara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:28:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Value of Mondello BB heads? -- not much

- --0-995128582-1084897719=:12611
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have a chance to pick up mondello modified BB heads. They started out 
with C heads, got hardened seats, SS valves and come with mondello 
roller 
rockers and pushrods. Mileage about 20k. I assume they got the mondello 
porting which some of you guys don't care for, but I am postive it 
can't be 
BAD either.
<snip>
- ----------------------------------------------------------
heads touched by Mondello :-(    hmm, expect to have them redone, CORRECTLY.
 
I was told about these heads and now after seeing these pics, words don't even begin to describe the "work" performed.  I know there is supposed to be _some_ turbulance, but I think thats a little excessive.
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130338308rMwRlW
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130341489wxzjkO
 
 
 
also, re: my t-chain and rods, I'm asking questions and will get back with use'all
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 

		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
- --0-995128582-1084897719=:12611
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>I have a chance to pick up mondello modified BB heads. They started out <BR>with C heads, got hardened seats, SS valves and come with mondello <BR>roller <BR>rockers and pushrods. Mileage about 20k. I assume they got the mondello <BR>porting which some of you guys don't care for, but I am postive it <BR>can't be <BR>BAD either.<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>----------------------------------------------------------<BR>heads touched by Mondello :-(&nbsp; &nbsp; hmm, expect to have them redone, CORRECTLY.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I was told about these heads and now after seeing these pics, words don't even begin to describe the "work" performed.&nbsp; I know there is supposed to be _some_ turbulance, but I think thats a little excessive.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130338308rMwRlW">http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130338308rMwRlW</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130341489wxzjkO">http://community.webshots.com/photo/124263972/130341489wxzjkO</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>also, re: my t-chain and rods, I'm asking questions and will get back with use'all</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=24311/*http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/">SBC Yahoo!</a> - Internet access at a great low price.
- --0-995128582-1084897719=:12611--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:26:44 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: high torque starter install

George,

> The friction and power needed to turn an engine over slow is
> relatively higher (if you normalize by the rpm) than if you turn it
faster.


No, it is not. I also didn't say that. The faster an engine spins, the more
power it takes to spin the engine. That's a basic law of physics.


> Especially the valve train will move over much easier, if you go crank it
> over at higher rpm.


No.


> As you stated, it will start quicker too.


It starts quicker because it receives a larger fuel charge at higher RPM.


> One reason being that you'll make
> much better compression turning over quickly. Speed is on your side!


Correct.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:44:45 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: high torque starter install

I was trying to give a very simple explanation with totally hypothetical
examples that I knew wouldn't be real world but would be proportionally
correct.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "SteveH" <k0xp@dandy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: high torque starter install


> At Monday, 17 May 2004, you wrote:
>
> >Lets say the stock starter produces 5 HP
>
> Actually, it's very likely considerably LESS than 5 hp. For example,
> let's assume the total starter current draw is 200 amps at a battery
> voltage of 12 volts (in reality, it's more likely something like
> 125 amps at maybe 9-10 volts, if you measure the voltage right at
> the starter). 200 amps at 12 volts is 2400 watts. I don't rember
> exactly, but one horsepower consumes something close to 746 watts.
> .. call it 750 watts. Thus, 2400 watts is about 3.2 horsepower.
> And that's way on the high side. Take the more-likely-reality case
> of 125 amps at 10 volts and we get 1250 watts, or about 1.7 horsepower.
>
>
> >...in this example, that's a net 3 HP increase, which needs
> >more voltage
>
> .... more CURRENT... or rather, the new starter should be consuming
> more POWER (assuming the voltage remains the same). Electrical power
> is voltage times current.
>
> >The catch is the higher revving gear reduction starter spins
> >the engine quicker, causing the engine to catch and run quicker
> >than with the stock starter, which might use less electricity
>
> ...... less electrical POWER.
>
> >... over the time it takes to start the engine, as compared to
> >the stock starter. So, on one hand you have an initial increase
> >in electrical demand, but the duration may be shorter.
> >Remember, you can't get increased power for free. There has to
> >be a trade-off. Power/energy in must equal power/energy out.
>
> Right, conservation of energy.
>
> In the olden days, I distinctly rember watching my tachs run up to
> maybe 250-300 rpm while starting my Poncho 421s and later, a Ch*bby
> 350 in an old '66 P/U truck. Since putting the tach back in my '88
> full-sized wagon with its Olds 307, I've been noticing the tach spins
> up to 600-700 rpm while the engine's starting. (Normally, once the
> 307 has warmed up, you can just about GLANCE at the ignition switch,
> mentally twist the key to start, and the things catches IMMEDIATELY;
> it has to crank for a few seconds only when cold)
>
> SteveH
>
>
>
> ===================================================================
> EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
> ===================================================================
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:47:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed

Everett, you were addressing me, right? Not Mike? So you want me to check?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <S61starfir@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: 1964 Cutlass rear bumper needed


> In a message dated 5/18/2004 12:47:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> imp@theriver.com writes:
> Everett,
>
> There should be 2 rear bumpers at a local you-pull-it in Tucson off of the
> two '64 F-85 4-doors sitting there. Do you want me to check if they're
still
> there?
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> That would be great Mike, dents no problems just no rust thru.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:02:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Value of Mondello BB heads? -- not much

> I was told about these heads and now after seeing these pics, words don't
even begin to describe the "work" performed.  I know there is supposed to be
_some_ turbulance, but I think thats a little excessive.


Yeah, I looked at the photos. There *is* supposed to be turbulence for
air/fuel mixing created in the intake passage, but the exhaust passage
*must* be as smooth as the aerodynamic skin of a F-15.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:16:02 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Fw: Qjet

 Hi all,
I know the topic is old and boring to most of us, but... are there any infos
about the Qjets by Holley?
I think they should make some good recons, being in carbs for such a long
time, but...
Matt

> Any feedbacks available about the Holley reman qjets?
> HLY-64-7803REMAN CARB 6-10    $190.99
>
> They sell cheap. The one above is universal for all Olds V8 350-455
engines
> between 71 and 75...
> I wonder if I will see a difference between this one and the Ed new Qjet
> selling at $450? Street driving...
> rgds and TIA
> Matt
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:24:57 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

>You didn't mention what transmission you are running in the car.  If
>it's an automatic, pull the vacuum line from the intake to the modulator 
>and
>check to see if it is wet with tranny fluid.

I'll second this. What you describe are the classic symptoms of a leaky 
modulator.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:37:47 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: homeless transmission

Sherman. Where are you?
Pat Swanton.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "sherman f higgins" <goodfoot@ix.netcom.com>
To: "oldsmobile" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:31 AM
Subject: homeless transmission


> I plan on installing the original two speed transmission in my 65 442, and
will have and will be removing the th350 would anybody be interested in
getting the th350?
>
>
> sherman f higgins
> goodfoot@ix.netcom.com
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:52:50 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Should I buy 72 Cutlass Conv. ???

> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 20:42:14 -0700
> From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: Should I buy 72 Cutlass Conv. ???

 
> >Power drums up front are touchy but work.
> 
> Those will have to go to have a half way safe ride.

I agree 100%, especially if you live where it rains often. Nothing quite 
like hitting a puddle of water and immediately losing your brakes. 


> I thought the later cars all had disks. I guess I am wrong! 

Yeah, I used to think discs were standard on the Supreme line in those 
years, but no, according to the build sheet they are optional - the JL2 
option, to be precise.


> For the resale you are aiming at, I'd want disk brakes.

Again I agree 100%. FYI, my brother-in-law upgraded the front drums on his 
'68 GTO and it cost him over $800 - and that was using mainly salvage yard parts!
 
> Cheers, George
> 71 442
> 71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:54:18 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

At Tuesday, 18 May 2004, you wrote:

>>You didn't mention what transmission you are running in the 
>>car. If it's an automatic, pull the vacuum line from the 
>>intake to the modulator and check to see if it is wet with 
>>tranny fluid.
>
>I'll second this. What you describe are the classic symptoms 
>of a leaky modulator.

.... except that the smoke from both tranny fluid and brake fluid 
(leaky brake booster diaphragm/master cylinder, which allows brake 
fluid to be sucked into the intake manifold) is normally WHITE, whereas 
the blue smoke is almost always engine oil. His symptoms of blue 
smoke during deceleration are classic for worn rings. A broken tranny 
modulator or brake booster diaphragm will normally also smoke at 
idle, where the vacuum is typically higher than 15".

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:29:06 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Should I buy 72 Cutlass Conv. ???

> I agree 100%, especially if you live where it rains often. Nothing quite
> like hitting a puddle of water and immediately losing your brakes.


One reason drum brakes fade out in rain puddles is that way too many people
forget to make sure the rubber plugs are in place on the back of the brake
backing plates on all 4 wheels. Those rubber plugs will mostly prevent water
from entering the brake drum assembly and causing fade

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:27:20 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: 1968-72 A-Body door hinges

Anybody looking for a deal on 1968-72 A-Body (Cutlass & variants) door
hinges? I have them in stock. I might run them as a special but figured I'd
offer them here first. Contact me privately if interested.

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:35:02 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

> His symptoms of blue
> smoke during deceleration are classic for worn rings.


Worn *oil* rings or oil rings installed improperly. Also a bad scraper ring
(#2 compression) or ring end gaps aligned together instead of staggered. He
did say he had a "freshened" engine. That's why I hammered on the valve
seal/valve guide area. It's easy to screw that up on an Olds. I did it.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:32:26 EDT
From: Tremendous442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

- -------------------------------1084915945
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

if modulator checks out ok, start thinking about your valve guides.

- -------------------------------1084915945
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">if modulator checks out ok, start thinking about your valve guides.</BODY=
></HTML>

- -------------------------------1084915945--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:37:41 EDT
From: Tremendous442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

- -------------------------------1084916261
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

not valve guides, I meant to say rings

- -------------------------------1084916261
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">not valve guides, I meant to say rings</BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1084916261--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:27:44 -0400
From: "Jay Britt" <jbritt67@mindspring.com>
Subject: Adjusting Hydraulic Valves - Cold or Hot?

OK, this should be a pretty easy question for the group. When
reassembling heads, in this case a '67 330 4-barrel HC, can the valves
only be adjusted when the engine is running and up to normal temp?. How
much can be done to adjust the valve train when the engine is still out
of the car?.

Thanks,

Jay Britt
OCA#29460
67 Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe
99 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
http://jbritt67.home.mindspring.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:41:58 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Blue smoke on Deceleration??

At 01:35 PM 5/18/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> His symptoms of blue
>> smoke during deceleration are classic for worn rings.
>
>
>Worn *oil* rings or oil rings installed improperly. Also a bad scraper ring
>(#2 compression) or ring end gaps aligned together instead of staggered. He
>did say he had a "freshened" engine. That's why I hammered on the valve
>seal/valve guide area. It's easy to screw that up on an Olds. I did it.

OK, if it's actually been "freshened up". But I thought he also said it
already had quite a few thousand miles on the freshening-up. Back in the
olden days, in the LA area, I used to run around with one Poncho 389 with
no air cleaner on the tripower at all. Probly commuted to work like that
for 20,000 miles or so. Then one day, I noticed it was blowing blue smoke
when I headed down the freeway offramps and decelerating. Paying more
attention, it would blow blue whenever decelerating with the vacuum higher
than 20" or so. It never puffed upon startup, though. I eventually did a
compression check and learned the folly of my ways: compression was down to
110-130 from 170-180 when I'd built the engine just a year before  
;o((((((((((((((

Bad valve guides/seals normally will allow some oil seepage into the
chambers while the hot engine is sitting, resulting in a puff or two of
blue smoke upon startup.

SteveH

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4894
*********************************
