
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, March 8 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4808



RE: [Fwd: power seat answer needed asap]
Re: What's an NOS 1970 OAI W30 hood worth?
WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Aluminum V6's
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
NOS OAI Hood
Can't Spin the Tires....
Re: Mass. Emissions
Re: Engine knocking
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
Re: Engine knocking
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!! (HOW?)
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
High-Tech Brake System Helps Drivers was: ABS, lifesaver or Satan's tool?
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
test
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:40:54 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: power seat answer needed asap]

>His only has a power seat on the drivers side. Is there a right
>and left seat transmission or are they both the same? Maybe
>someone with a parts book could help me out.

I do _not_ have the parts book so I can't say authoritatively, but I would 
think they are the same, since the only difference between right and left 
sides would be the position of the seat control panel (joystick, rocker 
switches, etc). The seats themselves mount the same way and move in the same 
directions, so I can't see why their transmissions or motors would need to 
be anything other than identical.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:51:51 GMT
From: geo.aigel@netzero.net
Subject: Re: What's an NOS 1970 OAI W30 hood worth?

I think it is worth a lot less than what it used to be. This is because Thornton has an excellent reproduction that can not be told apart from the original. The same happended to W/Z exhaust manifold. It is a blessing that the aftermarket has been able to get some of the real cool and expensive stuff reproduced and get prices down on the used stuff that way too. 

So, what's it worth to you to have a NOS piece? I probably wouldn't pay a penny more than the excellent reproduction which has fiberglass resin etc. from the present and comes with a warranty. :)

George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:07:53 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

And I thought that 442's had 344... VIN's, and the W31 pkg was not available 
on the 442 ?!?!?

But, here it is, undeniably:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2464099361&category=15287

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. 
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:27:47 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Aluminum V6's

>I am currently think about purchasing  a 2001 Olds Mini Van, it has the 
>3.4L >
v6 and 75,000 miles. Is there any thing any of you lister out there know of
>to watch out for?
==================
I see a LOT of GM aluminum V6's come thru the scrap yard. Not real ugly old 
oily ones either, but like 2000-2002 model fairly pretty warranty returns?  
Numerous examples. I bought 1 or 2, have pix. Hard to tell apart, to me, 
sometimes the cover says "3.1L" or whatnot.

Buy any extra warranty they offer, I guess.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:48:49 -0700
From: "Karl Sup" <droldslives@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Um... er... looks like it says 336... VIN to me...
Last time I checked, that's a Cutlaii. :-)

Karl Sup
Mesa, AZ


>From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:07:53 -0500
>
>And I thought that 442's had 344... VIN's, and the W31 pkg was not 
>available on the 442 ?!?!?

_________________________________________________________________
Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. 
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:47:00 EST
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

- -------------------------------1078771619
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Chris, last time I checked, a 336 VIN number was a Cutlass VIN, not a 442 
VIN. 

Karl Sup

- -------------------------------1078771619
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Chris, last time I checked, a 336 VIN number was a Cutlass VIN, not a 4=
42 VIN. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Karl Sup</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1078771619--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:08:36 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: NOS OAI Hood

At least $2500......Possibly $4000 on E-bay......

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 with OAI
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:12:56 -0500
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Can't Spin the Tires....

One of the most overlooked areas for performance is the distributor.
Having the optimum ignition curve really makes a big difference on how
the car runs. And, a lot of overheating problems come from the wrong
ignition curve. To dial in the mechanical advance and the vacuum
advance, you need a SUN distributor machine and a good technician. I had
my distributor done, and my car feels like it gained 30 HP. The throttle
response and performance were increased significantly.

Add this to a Sparky rebuilt Q-jet, and you have a great combination for
the street.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:26:27 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mass. Emissions

new jersey would be correct 
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Mass. Emissions


> At 07:09 AM 03/06/2004 -0500, Paul wrote:
> >"ACTUALLY ANY CAR  ANY YEAR WITH REGURLAR REGISTRATION GETS A EMSSION
> >TEST."
> >
> >Not true. Cars made before 1984 get no emissions test. Safety only.
> 
> Actually, I think Ron's comment was NJ-specific.  When I had regular
> registration on my 1972 Olds 98, 1972 Delta Convertible, and 1979 Cutlass,
> all were given the sniffer test.  At idle, and at a higher RPM, though
> frankly I have no idea what arbitrary RPM they chose, I was just
> uncomfortable with them revving my car.
> 
> 
> - Joe Vahabzadeh
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:37:00 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes lower oil psi. i have driven  some
455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas and others blew in days.
its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank is smooth and no ridges on
journals
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Engine knocking


> Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it to
> ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
> up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> paulbunyan
>
> jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
>
> >Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a daily
> >driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used engine
> >is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know what your
> >getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours will take
> >a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> >[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> >To: Oldsmobile
> >Subject: Engine knocking
> >
> >
> >All,
> >Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask the
> >list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I heard
> >the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> >screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the bottom as
> >well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking. The
> >knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the valve
> >covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im thinking I
> >spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> >
> >Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> >should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get fixed.
> >Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save this
> >engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth taking
> >to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on having
> >to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the knocking
> >noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or anything. I
> >will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its probably
> >trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the machine
> >shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of my
> >neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his parts
> >and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any trouble yet.
> >
> >paulbunyan
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

A couple of interesting things about this car... it does not have a cutout
rear bumper or exhaust trumpets. No red inner fenders either. The shifter
says 4-4-2, but the car is definitely a Cutlass. Regardless, I'd love to
have it...


Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:56:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

> How hard is it to
> ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
> up as soon as you hear it knock a few times?


If you hear an engine knock **in any engine** from a main or rod bearing
going bad, the crank already will need to be turned 0.020" for cleanup. If
you keep running the engine, you can easily freeze a bearing on the crank
and lockup the engine. At that point, the crank is ruined at a minimum. At a
maximum, you can break a rod and send it out through the side of the block.

In my life, I've frozen 2 Olds engines (a 394 and a 425) with spun rod
bearings, taken out the thrust bearing and spun one main bearing while the
engine kept running with Thunder's first 482 engine, and put a rod through
the side of the block on a 425 Olds.

Stop running your engine ***now** and get it fixed. Otherwise, you may wind
up with a different engine.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:04:28 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

So why does it have black valve covers and a bogus air cleaner? Notice the
left side where the ram air hose is attached.

How do sellers get away with this? Since it's across state lines, is it a
Federal crime?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!


> And I thought that 442's had 344... VIN's, and the W31 pkg was not
available
> on the 442 ?!?!?
>
> But, here it is, undeniably:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2464099361&category=15287
>
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from
bCentral.
> http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:11:53 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2464099361&category=15287

It now says that the seller has ended the auction early to accept the 
current high bid. If you're smelling a rat here, you might as well take some 
action now before money changes hands and/or the seller disappears (although 
they do have much handwaving on that page about how gosh-darned reputable 
they are). (On the other hand, if all they had to do was run the VIN to 
determine that they had a Cutlass and not a 442, one wonders if they did any 
checking at all.)

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:38:15 -0500
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

Thanks for replying Milton!

Im thinking im gonna drop the oilpan and then drop the crank and look at 
it...then ill take it from there. Do i have to pull the engine to drop 
the crank??? I mean, is there a shortcut or some other way I can check 
the crank without pulling the engine??? I can work on engines but i dont 
do it everyday   

paulbunyan

imp@theriver.com wrote:

>>How hard is it to
>>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
>>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times?
>>    
>>
>
>
>If you hear an engine knock **in any engine** from a main or rod bearing
>going bad, the crank already will need to be turned 0.020" for cleanup. If
>you keep running the engine, you can easily freeze a bearing on the crank
>and lockup the engine. At that point, the crank is ruined at a minimum. At a
>maximum, you can break a rod and send it out through the side of the block.
>
>In my life, I've frozen 2 Olds engines (a 394 and a 425) with spun rod
>bearings, taken out the thrust bearing and spun one main bearing while the
>engine kept running with Thunder's first 482 engine, and put a rod through
>the side of the block on a 425 Olds.
>
>Stop running your engine ***now** and get it fixed. Otherwise, you may wind
>up with a different engine.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:35:41 -0500
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

Thanks!!!! Just the type of answer I was looking for. Too bad I dont 
know what rolling the bearings mean, but I am assuming it means to 
install the bearings with the crank dropped but the engine still in the 
car??? (am i right lol) But thanks again, maybe I wont have to by a new 
engine after all. Im thinking the machine shop'll replace the rings, 
bearings, etc for under $500...so If I can save the crank all ill have 
to windup spending is the money for a rebuild kit and the machining 
costs. I guess the first thing I should do is drop the crank and look at 
the bearing journals???

paulbunyan


77w30442@comcast.net wrote:

>a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes lower oil psi. i have driven  some
>455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas and others blew in days.
>its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank is smooth and no ridges on
>journals
>ron
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
>Subject: Re: Engine knocking
>
>
>  
>
>>Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
>>looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it to
>>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
>>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
>>paulbunyan
>>
>>jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a daily
>>>driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used engine
>>>is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know what your
>>>getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours will take
>>>a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
>>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
>>>To: Oldsmobile
>>>Subject: Engine knocking
>>>
>>>
>>>All,
>>>Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask the
>>>list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I heard
>>>the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
>>>screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the bottom as
>>>well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking. The
>>>knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the valve
>>>covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im thinking I
>>>spun a bearing or something to that effect.
>>>
>>>Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
>>>should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get fixed.
>>>Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save this
>>>engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth taking
>>>to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on having
>>>to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the knocking
>>>noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or anything. I
>>>will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its probably
>>>trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the machine
>>>shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of my
>>>neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his parts
>>>and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any trouble yet.
>>>
>>>paulbunyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:42:46 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

> On the other hand, if all they had to do was run the VIN to
> determine that they had a Cutlass and not a 442, one wonders if they did
any
> checking at all.


Many people are novices and simply don't know they can or how to do it. They
see something they want and fall for the hype. I'm sure that many eBay sales
are that way and not just for cars and car related items.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:59:50 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

> Im thinking im gonna drop the oilpan and then drop the crank and look at
> it...then ill take it from there.


You can look at the crank, and could perform a sub-Mexican rebuild by
replacing most of the bearings without doing anything else, but...


> Do i have to pull the engine to drop
> the crank???


To remove the crank, yes.


> I mean, is there a shortcut or some other way I can check
> the crank without pulling the engine???


You can check the rod bearing journals on the crank, sort of, but you can't
mike the main bearing journals nor remove all of the main bearing caps, with
the engine in the car. The engine **must** be pulled out to remove the
crank.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:56 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!! (HOW?)

Is there a site that can give detailed info just by giving the VIN # ?
 I,d also like to be able to get copy of the shipping and manufacturers
specs sheet that usually comes under the rear seat. But I don't think would
be possible.
Thanks.
Pat.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!


> > On the other hand, if all they had to do was run the VIN to
> > determine that they had a Cutlass and not a 442, one wonders if they did
> any
> > checking at all.
>
>
> Many people are novices and simply don't know they can or how to do it.
They
> see something they want and fall for the hype. I'm sure that many eBay
sales
> are that way and not just for cars and car related items.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:55:52 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

>Many people are novices and simply don't know they can or how to do it. 
>They
>see something they want and fall for the hype. I'm sure that many eBay 
>sales
>are that way and not just for cars and car related items.

Right, Milton, but I meant that the _seller_, in this particular case, was 
going on and on ad nauseum about how gosh-darned _rare_ this thing is, 
trying to sound as knowledgeable as possible about the car, which leads me 
to wonder, if a simple VIN lookup would point out the fake, whether they're 
being naive or crooked. Given the big long speech about Olds history and 
442s (even though it seems to have been lifted from somewhere else), I'm 
leaning towards the latter.

I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be fun to do a Google 
search on selected excerpts from their Olds history essay in that ad and see 
where else that writing can be found.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:05:53 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

do not under any cicumstances  DO NOT remove all the mains at once,
hers how i do it
place large hunk of carboaed ubder car  raise  car.position stands out of the way,
drain oil remove filter, leaving it drip for a while 30-60min.
install drain plug and tighten, disconect battery remove starter, on my car with headers i have to raise engine and remove engine mounts i use a two 4*4 one on each side of each fender  with a notch in each block to prevent 3/8 home gas pipe and chain secured to engine  usually a/c bracket and alt bracket. i also have wedges cut to fit between frame and lower flange of headers just in case. i then remove pan.remove oil pumpand pick up tube.
loosen all the mains after stampint the main and rod caps. i then pull each main first, if they are are all good no signs of any irregularities i then snug the main caps. then i check each rod brg, again must be smooth. i then remove  brgs one at a time and torque the main caps after each brg is installed.be careful to install the caps  correctley, use assembly lube on new brgs before installing them. keep hands clean and clean crank with break clean.
i use lint free rags and snake them around the journels to wipe them down.
you may need to insetrt a object in the oil hole in the crank to roll brg out, i use a nail with a head thickness i/2 of brg  thickness, the thrust brg usually is the biggest pain. once thats done on all except number 5 . i change the rope seal to the neopreme type, then roll that brg,   then do the rods
reassemble fill with oil and fill oil filter with oil  dis able ignition crank it over a few times to ensure oil is pumped into the brgs then i fire it up and let it warm up. listen for noises and if all is well i let it down and take it for a drive.
remember  keep it clean. any dirt/foriegn matter can kill the brgs in a short period.
did i miss anything guys
ron
> 
> Thanks!!!! Just the type of answer I was looking for. Too bad I dont 
> know what rolling the bearings mean, but I am assuming it means to 
> install the bearings with the crank dropped but the engine still in the 
> car??? (am i right lol) But thanks again, maybe I wont have to by a new 
> engine after all. Im thinking the machine shop'll replace the rings, 
> bearings, etc for under $500...so If I can save the crank all ill have 
> to windup spending is the money for a rebuild kit and the machining 
> costs. I guess the first thing I should do is drop the crank and look at 
> the bearing journals???
> 
> paulbunyan
> 
> 
> 77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> 
> >a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes lower oil 
> psi. i have driven  some
> >455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas and others 
> blew in days.
> >its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank is smooth 
> and no ridges on
> >journals
> >ron
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> >To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
> >Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> >>looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it to
> >>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
> >>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> >>paulbunyan
> >>
> >>jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a daily
> >>>driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used engine
> >>>is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know what your
> >>>getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours will take
> >>>a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> >>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> >>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> >>>To: Oldsmobile
> >>>Subject: Engine knocking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>All,
> >>>Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask the
> >>>list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I heard
> >>>the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> >>>screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the bottom as
> >>>well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking. The
> >>>knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the valve
> >>>covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im thinking I
> >>>spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> >>>
> >>>Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> >>>should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get fixed.
> >>>Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save this
> >>>engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth taking
> >>>to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on having
> >>>to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the knocking
> >>>noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or anything. I
> >>>will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its probably
> >>>trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the machine
> >>>shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of my
> >>>neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his parts
> >>>and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any trouble yet.
> >>>
> >>>paulbunyan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:14:44 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: High-Tech Brake System Helps Drivers was: ABS, lifesaver or Satan's tool?

 From 
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=753&e=5&u=/ap/20040308/ap_on_sc/stability_control

By DEE-ANN DURBIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Drivers in cars with high-tech systems that apply the 
brakes to individual wheels maintained much better control of their 
vehicles in difficult driving situations, according a study conducted at 
a government lab.

Drivers lost control just 3.4 percent of the time when the "electronic 
stability control" system was on, compared to 27.9 percent when it 
wasn't, according to the study being released Monday at the Society of 
Automotive Engineers World Congress in Detroit.

The system automatically applies brakes when it senses the car isn't 
heading in the direction the driver intended. It is marketed under 
various names, including StabiliTrak, Dynamic Stability Control and 
AdvanceTrac.

University of Iowa researchers conducted the study using the federal 
government's National Advanced Driving Simulator. Continental Teves Inc. 
and Bosch Corp., the main producers of electronic stability control 
systems, provided software and paid for the tests, though researchers 
worked independently.

The study tested 120 male and female drivers 18 to 65. They drove a 2003 
Ford Expedition or 2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue and were given three 
scenarios: swerving to avoid a truck as it entered a highway with a 
65-mph speed limit; a curve simulating a highway onramp where drivers 
averaged 55 mph; and a gust of wind that pushed their vehicle into 
oncoming traffic. The braking system was turned off in half the cases.

The presence of electronic stability control was most dramatic in the 
wind gust test on the Oldsmobile Intrigue: 21 of 29 drivers without the 
system lost control, compared to just six of the 30 drivers with it.

No driver lost control in any of the scenarios when electronic stability 
control was used on the Ford Expedition, but nine of the 30 Ford drivers 
lost control on the curve when the system was turned off.

Loss of control was defined as a vehicle spinning off a highway at high 
speed or rotating 90 degrees or more.

Electronic stability control takes its cues from the driver. If the 
driver isn't steering, it's less effective, said Yiannis Papelis, one of 
the lead researchers on the Iowa study. During the test, most drivers 
tried to steer away from the danger, a good move when the braking system 
is engaged.

"People do fight for their lives," Papelis said. "That's what the system 
requires you to do."

Electronic stability control is available on 10 percent of vehicles sold 
in the United States and one-third of those sold in Europe.

It is standard on some luxury vehicles, including cars from Mercedes, 
BMW, Audi and Volvo. As an option, the price varies widely. For example, 
on a luxury version of the Expedition it's $795.

Safety groups want automakers to make electronic stability control 
standard equipment. The federal government could require that, but the 
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (news - web sites) is a 
long way from taking such a step. NHTSA officials have said the agency 
still is studying the systems to determine their effectiveness.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:19:33 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Andrew C. Green wrote:
 > ...
> I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be fun to do a 
> Google search on selected excerpts from their Olds history essay in that 
> ad and see where else that writing can be found.

From:
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442-history.shtml

There are those who claim that it was Oldsmobile that created ...
- --

Cliff "and on the 8th day God created Google" Simpson & Kermit
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:36:53 -0600
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Good call Andy.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442.shtml

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382


 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Andrew C. Green [mailto:acg_o@hotmail.com]
 > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:56 PM
 > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 > Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
 > 
  > I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be 
 > fun to do a Google 
 > search on selected excerpts from their Olds history essay in 
 > that ad and see 
 > where else that writing can be found.
 > 
 > -- Andy
 > 
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you 
 > click here. 
 > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 > 
 > 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:44:00 -0600
From: "Steven Saraceno" <steven@purplemonkey.com>
Subject: test

test

steven saraceno
1970 W-30 convertible

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:48:43 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

>>I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be
>>fun to do a Google search on selected excerpts from
>>their Olds history essay in that ad and see where else
>>hat writing can be found
>
>Good call Andy.
>
>http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442.shtml

Thanks! And hey, look at that little line at the bottom:

>All material © Copyright 2003 by Musclecarclub.com

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech 
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:08:17 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

I sent the following to the seller, FWIW. (They claim to be acting as a 
representative of the owner, to be specific...)

- ---------------
The VIN of 336878M299810 for what is claimed to be a 1968 Olds 442 actually 
identifies it as a Cutlass, according to the VIN decoder page at 
http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/vin. (The 442 VIN code should begin 
with 34487.)

In addition, large portions of the text of that ad have been lifted from the 
copyrighted page at 
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442.shtml.

Finally, as this vehicle is being listed as sold already, you may wish to 
see whether there are some details to clear up with the buyer and seller so 
that no one misunderstands what this car is, or is not.
- ---------------

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:32:30 -0700
From: "Karl Sup" <droldslives@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

I think what we have here is a problem with non-Olds people thinking all 
performance cars from Olds were 442's. That car is a CUTLASS. W31's aka Ram 
Rod's were only CUTLASS. If it had a 344... VIN number, I would laugh that a 
442 was being pawned off as a W31.

Ram Rods and W31's NEVER had red wells. NEVER. Only W30's and 1968 
Hurst/Olds had them.

As for the air cleaner and valve covers... the car wasn't being sold as a 
highly detailed engine bay. It's obvious that the engine was out of it at 
one time, and who knows, someone may have broken off the driver side 
snorkel. If it was being sold as a 100% correct engine compartment, I'd have 
a complaint. But it wasn't.

Only wrong thing I could see on that car was the shifter handle. It should 
not read 4-4-2, but only have the Hurst 'H' on it. Wrong handle... probably 
what led them to calling it a 4-4-2. You can't fault a dealer for not know 
their Oldsmobiles inside and out. Heck, this is the OLDSMOBILE list, and 
everyone can't keep W31/Ram Rod specifications correct!!

As to their content (Olds History) theft... shame on them!

Karl Sup
Mesa, AZ



>From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:08:17 +0000
>
>I sent the following to the seller, FWIW. (They claim to be acting as a 
>representative of the owner, to be specific...)
>
>---------------
>The VIN of 336878M299810 for what is claimed to be a 1968 Olds 442 actually 
>identifies it as a Cutlass, according to the VIN decoder page at 
>http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/vin. (The 442 VIN code should begin 
>with 34487.)

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4808
*********************************
