
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, April 5 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4845



Broke An A-Arm today... (long)
Re: long time owners
'70 SX convert
Re: long time owners
RE: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed...
Re: long time owners
Re: info on 1970 Cutlass SX conv???
Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)
Re: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed... 
site
Re: info on 1970 Cutlass SX conv???
Re: Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)
Re: Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)
Re: It's baaaaaack!
Re: long time owners
Re: No road test today
Re: sounds like rod knock
Re: long time owners
Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)
Re: More Dyno Stuff
Re: site
RE: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed...
Re: long time owners
Re: long time owners
Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)
Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)
Re: air filter
Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:12:05 -0700
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

With baby girl and wife in the car. 

We were going down a hill at about 25mph, and the car came to rest after
about 25 feet of skidding with nobody hurt. 

So now the big debate about whether to fix, how well to fix,  and whether to
keep the car.

This is the 3rd one I've had break on me in 23 or 24 years of driving these
cars, but it scares the h*ll out of me to think it might have gone at high
speed. Maybe with family in the car. I mean, if I take the risk that's one
thing, but I don't want to put them at greater risk for my hobby. You know?

All of these breaks were basically the same: a lower A-arm shears at low
speed in a turn right around the ball joint. This one sheared right at the
ball joint itself. I wouldn't be surprised if I could reuse the ball joint.
On my convertible I had rebar welded in around the lower ball joints to
strengthen the arm. So that's the fix, but my debate is now whether that's
just moving the problem to another section of the a-arm. 

The really permanent fix is to get some brand new (probably custom) A-arms
made up. Anybody know a company that does this? I really don't mind paying a
few hundred bucks (each?) to get these made up if I can be convinced they'll
really be rock solid. I'm guessing someone with racing connections might
have some ideas. 

My wife makes the point that hey, all those brand new, modern, Explorers had
tires blow up on the freeway so how danger can you really prevent? 

She's basically for keeping the car, but she won't feel comfortable riding
in it on longer rides anymore say to Napa or San Francisco from my house --
say an hour either way. That limits the utility of the car to me, since it's
fun to all go together in the old cars.

Naturally the wheel hit the fender, so there's a bit of body work to do, but
it's just labor & paint, none of the brightwork was damaged in a serious
way. But of course that makes the fix more $$ than just get another A arm
and bolt it in. 

On the plus side, this is an excuse to put disk brakes in the car and get
the rubber bushings put back in. I've been running polyurethane for years
and they're really too harsh for this kind of car in my view. So the
might-as-well's get me into another few thousand in parts & labor for 15"
wheels, disk brake parts, etc., etc.

Even if I do a bare minimum fix, I figure I could get maybe $8,000 -$12,000
for the car, but I have about $25,000 in it now -- including last year's
rebuilt motor. And that's not counting very accurately. So there's a
substantial loss here even after I spend a couple thousand getting it back
to safe & body work done. My inclination is to keep it, but not unless I can
make it as safe as possible. 

How many of you all have been through this debate with yourself and what
conclusions have you come to? 

Looking forward to thoughts & advice from a crowd that shares my interests &
concerns about these _great_ old cars. 

Thanks in advance,
Cf

PS: May I suggest you all have your front lower A-arms checked for cracks.
On or off the car you can magnaflux 'em and use a UV light to find the
fatigue. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:44:15 EDT
From: R4C442@aol.com
Subject: Re: long time owners

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Yo Tami!
       Go to 442.com
       Virtual Car Show
       1964-1969 (I think)
       Ron Forsee's 65 442 Holiday Coupe
 You can even download a wavefile of a 1/4 mil pass if you so desire.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Yo Tami!<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Go to 442.com<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Virtual Car Show<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1964-1969 (I think)<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ron Forsee's 65 442 Holiday Coupe<BR>
 You can even download a wavefile of a 1/4 mil pass if you so desire.</FONT>=
</HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:09:07 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: '70 SX convert

A local club member sold his '71 SX convert last spring for $23,000.00 from 
an ad, and did have a few responses.  The car was a rock solid Oklahoma car 
restored correctly with lots of options, dark blue, and paperwork.  So a 
nice one will bring 442 money.

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 02:24:07 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: long time owners

well i have had my first 1977 since 1988 its the one car that i will never give up.
 ron 
> Ron...now that is so kewl!! I wish I could keep a car that long....LOL The
> Cutty is the longest one I have ever owned besides my Benz and I sold that
> after almost 8 yrs of ownership to buy my Cutty back!!
> 
> Were can I see pics of your car??
> 
> Tami
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:27:41 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net (Randy Hermsen)
Subject: RE: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed...

"Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> wrote:

I might as well 
>NOT use the nice new but oldschool alternator, but change over to the newer 
>internally regulated type alt.
>
>But, what if THAT does not fix the problem either???
>
>This is turning into the Car From Hell.
>>>
Hi Chris
Sure sounds like me trying to wire a kill switch ON POS. SIDE in arse of race car a while back(Batt. in trunk).
I always let out the magic smoke from wires and it dont werk no mo.
My single wire alt kept the car running also,,,main charge wire on back of alt must route to batt, not the feed panel.
You will figure it out..be calm :)
Randy H.
Maple Ditch B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:37:35 -0500
From: "Doug Newman" <newmand@oldsgmail.com>
Subject: Re: long time owners

Tami asked Ron Forsee:

> Where can I see pics of your car??

In the Virtual Car Show at 442.com, where else?  :-)

http://www.442.com/vcs/1964_1972/forsee.html

"Oh yes!  It's verrah nyce!"   };-]


Doug Newman                  1987 442              OCA # 30311
Columbus, MS                    

http://store.oldsgmail.com                             The Store    
http://newmand.oldsgmail.com                       My Home Page

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:05:50 -0500
From: Texas442 <Texas442@Texas442.com>
Subject: Re: info on 1970 Cutlass SX conv???

>What to look for to authenticate it as genuine?

Frank,
If you can find the build sheet, then look for the Y79 package.  Also, most 
(or maybe all) SX cars came with posi track rear-ends.  I owned two SXs, 
and both had 2.56 Highway posi rear ends.
Ali 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 3:01:54 +0000
From: <frantok@charter.net>
Subject: Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)

Hello List, this is John M. Beach of Fort Worth, Texas. I've been a list member for well over a year by now, though not a regular poster; nonetheless I enjoy everyone's posts' and experiences with Oldsmobiles. I'm not a mechanic or a hot-rodder, simply an Oldsmobile owner/driver/lover. Currently, he is un-driveable and my wife's Geo Metro is taking me to work in the mornings...If you have the patience for such a long post, than please bear with me because it just might save my Oldsmobile from the wrecking yard!!!

Around the time I bought the 84' Custom Cruiser (Y-code 307) , I was advised by a mechanic that the "primary metering rods" were shot on the existing carb, causing it not to run well or at all at that time. I purchased a Holly remanufactured Q-Jet at the local O-Reily's for around $500; in turn I paid a mechanics-shop that still worked on carbs to install the part, and for a number of months it ran like a brand new Olds wagon...

(now the plot thickens.) Some number of months back it started having the same symptoms it had been having with the old carb; difficult or no starts in all weather, loss of power, high or low idle, excessive emissions, etc. Certainly I didn't expect it was the brand spankin' new carburetor, yet I take it in to the same mechanics-shop and they tell me, quote "We don't need to look at it over-night to tell you this is typical Rochester Q-Jet stuff...you got yourself a bad carb, just take the receipt/warranty to the retailer then bring the new one back here and he'll be good as new"......obviously I had to get a 2nd opinion...

Many months later, through everyday driving in it's sickened condition (and REALLY shoddy gas mileage), I finally found the retail receipt for that Q-Jet which I had actually misplaced (and this was just days ago.) Luckily, it was still under warranty and so they were glad to have another Q-Jet on order and in stock the next day. The gentlemen who ordered the carb patiently and graciously listened to my dilemma and then gave me a referral to an honest mechanic with very reasonable rates........remember the 2nd opinion?? Well here he was......

HERE's where it gets hairy (and this is why my Olds is now out of comission and why my wife is risking her job just to get me to mine.). I visited this gentlemen and he struck me just as the type of person that Mario from O-Reilys said he was; besides that he had GREAT rates. I felt that I could trust this man to install the new carb which would arrive tomorrow, and so I left the car at his shop and he was even kind enough to drive us home....The next day, he goes to O-Reily and picks up the carb for me while I'm at work. I get home at around 6-7 PM, and on the phone he says, "Well John I got some baaad bad news on the Olds. I put in that new carburetor, gave it a full tune-up and everything else and it's still running the same. Hard starts, gas smell, uneven idle, etc. Now I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but I highly advise you to sell this car, or it is going to be a perpetual expense on you and your wife. The problem pertains to the heads and the intake of !
 the engine, and due to the age of the car parts for it will be next to impossible to find." unquote.

Well in conclusion, he drove the car home and didn't charge me a penny for labor, because he said that what he did didn't fix the car. (how nice of him, huh?) When my baby came rumblin' down the block it sounded and smelled worse than it ever has!!! When it made it into the driveway, it almost died before he could shut off the ignition. He said to me in person more or less what he said over the phone. The car needs a new intake and its got vaccum leak, etc. etc. (I'm not a mechanic so I don't quite understand all of the lingo)
I asked him if I could possibly have the engine rebuilt, or SOMETHING and he tells me that due to the age of the car parts will be hard to find, and I need to just part with it and get something newer.

***I have now gone through 2 brand new carburetors, about 3-4 mechanics and alot more money than I paid for the car. As of right now, I can't even keep it running long enough to get it out of the driveway and into the garage; you have to pump the gas to get it started and then you have to keep supplying gas to the engine or it dies instantly. It is now in FAR FAR worse condition than it EVER was before he installed the new carb and tune up. If I had not had the car serviced, me and my wife would have been able to have driven it to church last night, but alas it is now undriveable. For all that I know, it may be the engine or it may be the carb (even though I was told by the P.O./O.O. that the engine and tranny were rebuilt). I'm just an Oldsmobile owner and driver, so I unfortunately have to live with being taken for a ride by Joe Mechanic due to my ignorance.***

I love my Methuselah and I love Oldsmobiles. It would bring me to tears to part with that wagon, and I just KNOW that I shouldn't have to sell it simply because it's too old to fix. I hear about rebuilds and restorations of even older Oldsmobiles here on the list all the time, so why is my 84' 307 beyond repair? All I really need to know is what course of action to take from this point. I really didn't believe that man when he told me that it was the "intake--heads" because the car ran OK despite difficult starts and mucho smog BEFORE he worked on the car...All he did was install a new carburetor and tune up, so wouldn't logic suggest that I just need to find somebody that has some sense with Oldsmobiles and their carburetors??....That's all that I can suggest to myself.

Please excuse the length of this post, I understand it's long-winded but you all have always seemed to be so knowledgable and adept with the old Rockets when everyone I have ever consulted in my area has given me the run-around and wasted my time and hard earned $$$.

God Bless,
John Morgan Beach; Fort Worth, Texas.
(817-923-6740)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 03:32:13 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed... 

At 08:08 PM 4/4/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>No reason to suspect that simply addind a 
>friggin RELAY to run an HEI would lead to this.

Actually, there is. You're running the original ignition wire to the relay
now, right? The original guy had a draw of the ignition coil, which is
several amps. IIRC, you mentioned the relay coil's resistance is 70 ohms,
which will draw only about 170 milliamperes. That's about the resistance of
the alternator bulb, in fact, and if that bulb were in series with the
relay coil, would result in the voltage that you note, around 6 volts.

>If the new but externally regulated Alt'r will not do it, I might as well 
>NOT use the nice new but oldschool alternator, but change over to the newer 
>internally regulated type alt.
>
>But, what if THAT does not fix the problem either???
>
>This is turning into the Car From Hell.

Somewhere, somehow, a wire got crossed.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:05:27 EDT
From: Flipx99@wmconnect.com
Subject: site

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Now that I am in the market for a "new" car since my 88 CSCB was totalled, 
did olds offer a  fastback type version of the cutlass in the pre-emmissions 
era? I know this like a silly question, but I am only used to the G body style 
and since I have this 350 laying around from the 88 project, I need something 
for it to fit into. I already have a mustang from the 60s so I know about rust 
and restoration. I have always been interested in fastbacks and was hoping olds 
offered something similar pre-emissions for me to drop the 350 into. I am not 
located in CA.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>Now that I am=
 in the market for a "new" car since my 88 CSCB was totalled, did olds offer=
 a &nbsp;fastback type version of the cutlass in the pre-emmissions era? I k=
now this like a silly question, but I am only used to the G body style and s=
ince I have this 350 laying around from the 88 project, I need something for=
 it to fit into. I already have a mustang from the 60s so I know about rust=20=
and restoration. I have always been interested in fastbacks and was hoping o=
lds offered something similar pre-emissions for me to drop the 350 into. I a=
m not located in CA.</FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:03:57 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: Re: info on 1970 Cutlass SX conv???

At 11:05 PM 4/4/2004, you wrote:

>>What to look for to authenticate it as genuine?

If the engine and tranny VIN derivatives match the car's VIN, it's an SX, 
since the 455 and TH400 could only be had in the Supreme body-style as part 
of the SX package.

People have e-mailed me claiming to have a factory non-SX 455 Supreme, but 
just like CW's solid-main-web 403's, no proof has ever materialized.


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:08:53 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)

At 11:01 PM 4/4/2004, you wrote:
>Hello List, this is John M. Beach of Fort Worth, Texas. I've been a list
[snip]
>and wasted my time and hard earned $$$.

Of course, the car is not so far gone as to need trading-in.

It could be an intake manifold leak, a burnt valve or a bad ignition.

There are hundreds of thousands of these engines available for parts; the 
parts won't be hard to get for another two or three decades.

The trick if you're not doing it yourself, of course, is to find a reliable 
person to do the work for you.


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 04:33:55 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Is my Olds 307 beyond repair??(long)

At 03:01 AM 4/5/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>"Well John I got some baaad bad news on the Olds. I put in that 
>new carburetor, gave it a full tune-up and everything else and 
>it's still running the same. Hard starts, gas smell, uneven idle, 
>etc. Now I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but I 
>highly advise you to sell this car, or it is going to be a perpetual 
>expense on you and your wife. The problem pertains to the heads 
>and the intake of the engine, and due to the age of the car parts 
>for it will be next to impossible to find." unquote.

What BS.

>The car needs a new intake and its got vaccum leak, etc. etc.

An intake from a junk Yarde would cost maybe $50 AT MOST. Installing it
would take the better part of a day but still...

>he tells me that due to the age of the car parts will be hard to 
>find, and I need to just part with it and get something newer.

He's so full of schooey, he looks like a Christmas turkey.

>I can't even keep it running long enough to get it out of the 
>driveway and into the garage

This last guy obviously didn't know what the heck he was doing.

>you have to pump the gas to get it started and then you have to 
>keep supplying gas to the engine or it dies instantly.

That does sound like a MASSIVE vacuum leak. My bet is this turkey didn't
have the vaguest idea what vacuum hoses he pulled off from wherever and
didn't pay the least bit of attention to any of them.

>it may be the engine or it may be the carb (even though I was 
>told by the P.O./O.O. that the engine and tranny were rebuilt).

EXTREMELY unlikely that either is at fault; VERY likely to be other
easy-to-fix things like misplaced or broken vacuum hoses. POSSIBLY, the
intake manifold gasket could have a leak but that's fairly unusual. More
likely, this turkey put the wrong carburetor base gasket on between the
intake manifold and carburetor, which would result in a good-sized vacuum
leak.

>why is my 84' 307 beyond repair?

It's not; it's just that you got taken again, by someone who really didn't
know or care what he was doing. His parting words to you make it pretty
clear that he doesn't want to see the car again. And probably doesn't want
to see ANY older car again  ;o\

>All I really need to know is what course of action to take from this 
>point. I really didn't believe that man when he told me that it was 
>the "intake--heads" because the car ran OK despite difficult starts 
>and mucho smog BEFORE he worked on the car...All he did was install 
>a new carburetor and tune up, so wouldn't logic suggest that I just 
>need to find somebody that has some sense with Oldsmobiles and their
carburetors??....That's all that I can suggest to myself.

Yup, that's bout the size of it.

Where are you located? Perhaps one of us is close enough to be able to
render assistance.

>God Bless,
>John Morgan Beach; Fort Worth, Texas.
>(817-923-6740)

Ooopsss, there it is.... I'm in southwestern Connecticut so I'm out. Maybe
there's someone else down in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area who can help. I do
know a guy somewhere around there on the El Camino reflector who's very
knowledgeable on this era vehicle who works on anything that shows up; I'll
forward this to him and maybe he'll be able to help.

SteveH
1988 full-sized wagon w/235K-mile-old unrebuilt 307

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:22:33 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: It's baaaaaack!

> I
> reported that to eBay, but they reply only that it is up to all al buyers
to
> beware of scurrilous cheating sellers such as yourself.


Unfortunately for eBay, the FBI will disagree.


> What does it take to
> "convince" you to CORRECT YOUR LYING AD?


It will take filing a complaint with the FBI at
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp , and I am not joking.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to remind eBay of the FBI at
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp .

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:32:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: long time owners

And you still have her, correct?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <R4C442@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: long time owners


> My ordered 65-442 came in on my birthday (June 10) of 1965. Cost me $10
down
> to take 'er home.
>                                                  Ron Forsee
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:38:22 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: No road test today

Why not use a separate toggle switch to activate the 12 volt wire to the
HEI. Keep it simple.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: No road test today


> OK, diode across the relay's coil terminals did not help.
> On = On, Off = On
> There is no turning off the HEI except to remove wire from the relay...
> ?!?!?!
>
> Another relay behaves just the same.
> Any clues for me? I thought I knew how relays worked...
>
> So, I go out to try that new dioded relay... and it commences to SNOW
>
> Ran engine a minute, shut off - by yanking wire off relay- drained water
> from radiator and block.
>
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans
available.
>
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/
direct/01/
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:54:06 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: sounds like rod knock

> I recently installed a
> moderate cam (.484/.512)  and edelbrock heads (shaved .060). When I start
it
> up it has a regular knock like a rod knock.
> It sounds like a valve whacking a piston, but
> I am told that this is not likely.


And why did whomever say it was not likely that a valve was hitting a
piston? That cam has a lot of lift and the valves are now a lot closer to
the pistons with 0.060" off the heads. One other question, did you cut
material off the intake manifold so the intake ports and intake bolt holes
would line up properly with the heads, since the heads are now moved 0.060"
closer toward engine center?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:59:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: long time owners

> But of course I still have the car Tami. Chances are good I'll probably be
> buried in it!


Good!

You may have just won the title of the longest same Olds car owner on this
List.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:12:52 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

Chris,

To be completely honest, I've never seen a GM A-body break a lower control
arm, or an upper, and you've broken 3. I don't understand how that could be
happening.

Which model do you have again?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:44:44 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: More Dyno Stuff

Michael,

> It would roast the 245/60r15 Eagle ST at will from a standing stop
(sometimes would get both of them spinning if traction was limited),


That's correct, because the outside of the tire spins faster to get higher
speed, so the tire slips on the pavement easier. Tires spin for 2 reasons,
too much perimeter speed on the tire tread or too much torque down on the
pavement and there isn't enough friction to hold the tire.


> BTW gang - the Turbo 350 in the Cutlass works well when driving around,
but when sitting still in gear at idle (at a red light for example) it
sometimes seems to lose line pressure and releases out of gear.  I hit the
gas to go and the engine revs a bit, then the trans dumps into gear and the
car lurches forward.  Any ideas?


1st/reverse band is bad.
Low/reverse roller-clutch is bad.
Low fluid level.
Low oil pressure.
Forward clutch piston sticking.
Malfunction in the front pump feed circuits to forward clutch pack.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:38:06 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: Re: site

At 12:05 AM 4/5/2004, you wrote:
>Now that I am in the market for a "new" car since my 88 CSCB was totalled, 
>did olds offer a  fastback type version of the cutlass in the 
>pre-emmissions era? I know this like a silly question, but I am only used 
>to the G body style and since I have this 350 laying around from the 88 
>project, I need something for it to fit into. I already have a mustang 
>from the 60s so I know about rust and restoration. I have always been 
>interested in fastbacks and was hoping olds offered something similar 
>pre-emissions for me to drop the 350 into. I am not located in CA.

I've always thought of the '68-'72 Cutlass and 442 coupes as "fastbacks". 
The 350 would fit great!


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:42:51 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: RE: On = Off ? Changed alternator, not fixed...

Chris,

I forget where you sourced these relays from originally, but could it be 
that they're A/C relays? GM used "hold-in" relays (or whatever they were 
called) which stayed activated as long as current was passing through them. 
For whatever reason, they figured that once the A/C compressor was engaged, 
it should stay engaged  To shut them down, you have to cut the current to 
both (+) leads.



_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:44:33 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: Re: long time owners

I bought my SX back at the start of my senior year of high-school (1983). 
At that time it was just another Cutlass. I always heard stories of guys 
who "wish they never sold their car" from their high-school days, so I 
learned from them. :)




_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:51:08 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: long time owners

- -------------------------------1081176668
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 10:01:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
rbarry@providence.edu writes:
I always heard stories of guys 
who "wish they never sold their car" from their high-school days, so I 
learned from them. 
In those days, who thought they'd be worth anything. They were changing the 
design every two years. Most guys who sold their car did so because they got 
married, had kids and their priorities changed, and they needed the money. I 
know that was the case with me. So every time I hear a guy say, "I had one of 
those, never should have sold it," I know if he didn't have to, he wouldn't have. 
We're the lucky ones.

Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92 Eldo

- -------------------------------1081176668
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 10:01:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rbarry@p=
rovidence.edu writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I always heard stories of guys <BR>who "wish t=
hey never sold their car" from their high-school days, so I <BR>learned from=
 them. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>In those days, who thought they'd be worth anything. They were changing=
 the design every two years. Most guys who sold their car did so because the=
y got married, had kids and their priorities changed, and they needed the mo=
ney. I know that was the case with me. So every time I hear a guy say, "I ha=
d one of those, never should have sold it," I know if he didn't have to, he=20=
wouldn't have. We're the lucky ones.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190=
 SL Conv.<BR>92 Eldo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1081176668--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:05:28 -0400
From: "73H/O OLDSRIP" <jtmwalt@netsync.net>
Subject: Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

Hi all,

Mlton, Probably more common here in rust country. I have seen them a half
dozen times. Also has come up on the list a couple times over the years.
If you look at one you can see that  is the point of most stress in the
triangle. I have suggested to weld a plate for support on any arm that shows
rust and scale.
Or buy those fancy new tubular arms.

Later,

Joe Walters
73 H/O


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)


> Chris,
>
> To be completely honest, I've never seen a GM A-body break a lower control
> arm, or an upper, and you've broken 3. I don't understand how that could
be
> happening.
>
> Which model do you have again?
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:22:41 -0400
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

Wowserz!
Same thing happened to me in my 1970 Olds 98. My A frame broke right on 
the corner where the ball joint mounts. Like you, I probably could 
reuser mines if I wanted to. I have been through 2 in the 7 years I have 
had my 98. I found a guy local to me (Washington DC) that said he could 
weld some more metal in my arm. Also, depending on what kind of car you 
have you may be able to buy new arms from Hotchkiss engineering. In my 
case since I have a 'C' body nobody makes new lower control arms for 
mines so Ill have to get a hot rod shop to custom make some and Im 
thinking theyll be charging right around 4-500 bux a pop. Ouch. So Ill 
probably be going with the welder. But since I need an engine in my car 
right now and I do have a control arm on there now thats fine itll have 
to wait lol

paulbunyan

cfair@att.net wrote:

>With baby girl and wife in the car. 
>
>We were going down a hill at about 25mph, and the car came to rest after
>about 25 feet of skidding with nobody hurt. 
>
>So now the big debate about whether to fix, how well to fix,  and whether to
>keep the car.
>
>This is the 3rd one I've had break on me in 23 or 24 years of driving these
>cars, but it scares the h*ll out of me to think it might have gone at high
>speed. Maybe with family in the car. I mean, if I take the risk that's one
>thing, but I don't want to put them at greater risk for my hobby. You know?
>
>All of these breaks were basically the same: a lower A-arm shears at low
>speed in a turn right around the ball joint. This one sheared right at the
>ball joint itself. I wouldn't be surprised if I could reuse the ball joint.
>On my convertible I had rebar welded in around the lower ball joints to
>strengthen the arm. So that's the fix, but my debate is now whether that's
>just moving the problem to another section of the a-arm. 
>
>The really permanent fix is to get some brand new (probably custom) A-arms
>made up. Anybody know a company that does this? I really don't mind paying a
>few hundred bucks (each?) to get these made up if I can be convinced they'll
>really be rock solid. I'm guessing someone with racing connections might
>have some ideas. 
>
>My wife makes the point that hey, all those brand new, modern, Explorers had
>tires blow up on the freeway so how danger can you really prevent? 
>
>She's basically for keeping the car, but she won't feel comfortable riding
>in it on longer rides anymore say to Napa or San Francisco from my house --
>say an hour either way. That limits the utility of the car to me, since it's
>fun to all go together in the old cars.
>
>Naturally the wheel hit the fender, so there's a bit of body work to do, but
>it's just labor & paint, none of the brightwork was damaged in a serious
>way. But of course that makes the fix more $$ than just get another A arm
>and bolt it in. 
>
>On the plus side, this is an excuse to put disk brakes in the car and get
>the rubber bushings put back in. I've been running polyurethane for years
>and they're really too harsh for this kind of car in my view. So the
>might-as-well's get me into another few thousand in parts & labor for 15"
>wheels, disk brake parts, etc., etc.
>
>Even if I do a bare minimum fix, I figure I could get maybe $8,000 -$12,000
>for the car, but I have about $25,000 in it now -- including last year's
>rebuilt motor. And that's not counting very accurately. So there's a
>substantial loss here even after I spend a couple thousand getting it back
>to safe & body work done. My inclination is to keep it, but not unless I can
>make it as safe as possible. 
>
>How many of you all have been through this debate with yourself and what
>conclusions have you come to? 
>
>Looking forward to thoughts & advice from a crowd that shares my interests &
>concerns about these _great_ old cars. 
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Cf
>
>PS: May I suggest you all have your front lower A-arms checked for cracks.
>On or off the car you can magnaflux 'em and use a UV light to find the
>fatigue. 
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:28:03 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: air filter

> hey guys,where can i find a air filter for my 1960 super 88,394 c.i.i have
> tryed on line auto parts stores,but they keep sending the wrong ones.keith
> soden,oca#035738

2bbl uses an ACDelco A90CW, 4bbl uses an A85C.

Paul 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:27:39 -0400
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Broke An A-Arm today... (long)

Milton,
My 1970 98 has been through 2 so far and Ive only had it 7 years. 
Neither one of the control arms that broke were rusted out and I didnt 
hit any curbs or anything. The only weird thing upon inspection of my 
suspension was that the passenger side end link (the bolt that holds the 
sway bar to the lower control arm) was missing. The control arm that 
broke twice on me was the drivers side lower one...

paulbunyan

imp@theriver.com wrote:

>Chris,
>
>To be completely honest, I've never seen a GM A-body break a lower control
>arm, or an upper, and you've broken 3. I don't understand how that could be
>happening.
>
>Which model do you have again?
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4845
*********************************
