
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, May 10 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4883



Re: Intake decode needed
High torque starter?
Re: Intake decode needed
What's an M intake?
Off Topic - S10 Transmission Problem
Re: What's an M intake?
Re: What's an M intake? - and other stuff  
Re: High torque starter?
Re: Intake decode needed
Car Show Photos
Re: Off Topic - S10 Transmission Problem
it's getting closer
Re: Intake decode needed
Re: High torque starter?
Re: High torque starter?
Re: High torque starter?
GM's crappy V6's
Re: High torque starter?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 23:07:09 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed

In addition, a Toro intake manifold is literally sunken down across the
center, extremely low profile compared to a regular intake, so the carb and
air cleaner can clear the hood.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed


> DOHHHH  !!
>
> Make that a "K" ..................
>
> The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 00:26:14 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: High torque starter?

Anyone uses this?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D820311

The rebuilds I have never last long. I am getting real tired of them. Even 
with a hd solenoid and heat shield they don't do well. So, I figured I'd 
try this one next. Please let me know your experiences, on a daily driver!

Cheers, George
71 c/s (starter trouble)
71 442 (1966 original c/s starter 70k miles on it, works perfect!)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 06:48:09 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed

Hey Dan,

Do you remember if the carb had a divorced choke ????
Were there heat tubes running to the carb ????


The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 10:34:39 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: What's an M intake?

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 22:32:05 -0400
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed

DOHHHH  !!
Make that a "K" ..................
The General       patton442@verizon.net

So what year is an M manifold?
No M's listed on  442.com
=================
M is Toro for sure
I believe it's the 1970 version.
66-67 was C whilte other engines used maybe A, E, F [3x2]
68-9 was K while others used J or J or H [2-bbl]
70 was M while other cast irons units were L,or R thru 1972 or so. I think 
the T was 71-2 Toro.

Memory kinda hazy on that stuff, time to go peruse my museum and brush up I 
guess.

Hmmmm... No D intake? No G? No I... that's understandable. No N, O, or Q, 
but I have seen a P BB 2-bbl. There's a U also, and the W is the last of the 
BB units, with EGR. No S or V either I guess.

One of the things I could not yet bear to sell for scrap the other day was a 
#1 small block intake. First year of issue, 1964 330? NOPE... it was first 
of the NEXT GENERATION of SBO's 1976 or 1977 or so: Cast Iron, with EGR, and 
2 PUNY ports for... the QJet Lookalike Faux Four Barrel carb!!! I forgot to 
note whether it has puny ports at the heads too. Soon thereafter replaced by 
the aluminum version, the A2 intake.

Yet another instance of Olds using the same large ID on 2 different parts
1969 J intake vs the 1969 H/O J intake
W RH vs W LH xst manifolds
Two different types of X LH xst mans, at least 2 different types of #1 LH 
xmans.
Pretty sure I even have 2 water pumps with same large ID and differing 
6-digit numbers.

Please note that our computer is suffering and needs to go down for service 
approximately 5/10-5/14/04
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - 
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:58:19 -0500
From: Dave Popadic <davepopadic@core.com>
Subject: Off Topic - S10 Transmission Problem

I'm at wits end and was hoping someone could help me...

Last year my 88 s10 pickup started having problems shifting (all
gears).  I tried changing the fluid and all that did was make it start
to slip.

I parked the truck throughout the winter (didn't feel like messing
with it).  A month or so ago, I decided to try to get it going again.
I picked up a used transmission from a local junkyard.  It took me a
couple of weeks, but finally managed to get it in.  Warm the truck up,
added fluid and took it for a test drive.  Truck had problems shifting
again.  Came back and checked and the fluid was low (converter
empty, maybe?).  Took it for another drive.  Drove it just over 1
mile.  Shifted GREAT.  Ran into Kmart for like 15 minutes, came back
and it wouldn't shift out of first.  Stopped and fluid was low.  Not
really low or anything, but lower.  Added more fluid and drove it back
home and it still shifted poorly.  Parked it in the driveway and it's
leaking pretty good (dipstick perhaps?).  No matter, fluid isn't that
low, so I'm not wanting to spend lots of time looking for a leak.

Am I missing something here (electronic perhaps)?  Or did I just get a
bad transmission?

Any ideas?  I REALLY don't want to have to pull the tranny again....

Thanks,
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 16:11:57 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: What's an M intake?

At 10:34 AM 5/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>#1 small block intake. First year of issue, 1964 330? NOPE... 
>it was first of the NEXT GENERATION of SBO's 1976 or 1977 or 
>so: Cast Iron, with EGR, and 2 PUNY ports for... the QJet 
>Lookalike Faux Four Barrel carb!!!

You mean, 2 bbl for the Dual Jet Rochester??

AFAIK, those were only used on 260s, as there were no 2 bbl 350s, 403s or
307s.

>I forgot to note whether it has puny ports at the heads too.

If it was for the 260, it had the small ports.

>Soon thereafter replaced by the aluminum version, the A2 intake.

You mean the A4?  AHH... Yes, I seem to recall there was an aluminum 2-bbl
on some 260s, I think I saw one once.

There was also the #16 cast iron Q-jet intake, thought to be the iron
version of the A4, which came out apparently in '82/'83 on the 307. Problem
is, I've never been able to pinpoint just when the A4 was actually
introduced: could have been as early as '80. I've heard of the #16 used as
late as '83, I think.

If you find A4s, PLEASE don't scrap them: there are folks here and on the
G-body reflector who are ALWAYS looking for them. Far too many of us missed
digging those off the old Deltas and 98s back when the Yardes had plenty of
them  ;o((((((

>Please note that our computer is suffering and needs to go down 
>for service approximately 5/10-5/14/04

Why are you having so much computer trouble???? Seems every few months,
you're having to have it redone or something.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:56:10 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: What's an M intake? - and other stuff  

While we are on numbers, I have a cast zinc Tstat housing
that has the offset neck, and carries the number "2". Any ideas what it is
???
It uses the bent bypass hose. Me thinks it came from a 2 barrell 67'.


The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 11:40:13 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

First, I've never had any trouble with any rebuilt starter, as long as it
was a high torque with ***two*** flat leads attaching the starter windings
to the solenoid. However, my small gear reduction starter spins the engine
on Thunder very fast. I went to it when the main battery cable fatigued at
the terminal end and broke off the starter, after 20 years. I had to reroute
the cable due to the headers being in the way. The small starter allowed me
to do that. The only problem that I had with the small gear reduction
starter was occasional failures to engage the flexplate teeth. The
out-of-roundness theory of the flexplate is the best explanation, but I
haven't checked it yet. Lately, the starter hasn't given any problem, and I
haven't had any time to check it out since Mary had her first strokes on
Christmas Eve.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: High torque starter?


> Anyone uses this?
>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D820311
>
> The rebuilds I have never last long. I am getting real tired of them. Even
> with a hd solenoid and heat shield they don't do well. So, I figured I'd
> try this one next. Please let me know your experiences, on a daily driver!
>
> Cheers, George
> 71 c/s (starter trouble)
> 71 442 (1966 original c/s starter 70k miles on it, works perfect!)
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:51:11 -0400
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed

Hey Dan,

Do you remember if the carb had a divorced choke ????
Were there heat tubes running to the carb ????
The General

The manifold didn't have heat tubes running to the carb, but was set up for
them. The housing was oval shaped and not square like the 69's I've seen in
the past. It is definately a Toro intake because the carb base was a almost
level with the bottom of the heads. The engine block has C heads and the
block number matches the 68-69 with a regular style "F" with out the serifs.
The engine is currently in a  Trans AM. The owner want to put a 400 Poncho
back into the car. Should be able to pick up the engine in about 2 weeks.
Once I have the engine I will try to post more info about it.
Thanks Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 14:53:51 -0500
From: "Doug Newman" <newmand@oldsgmail.com>
Subject: Car Show Photos

Hi folks, and Happy Mother's Day...

Saturday, (5/8) I took my '87 up to Guin, Alabama for their 11th Annual
Mayfest car show.  Not a cloud in the sky, and the high temp reached
around 90º.  ("Spring is here!"  :-)  They had about 65 registered
entries in 40 classes with First and Second place trophies awarded in
each class.  We wound up getting the same shady parking spots as last
year, miraculously.  (Of course I had the only Olds there.)  There was a
'96 Mustang and a 200? PT Cruiser in the '81-'04 Production Class along
with my car.  The Mustang and the PT tied for second.      

Many of the same cars and trucks that I got photos of last year were
there, so I tried not to have any "repeats".  (Last year's page is
http://newmand.oldsgmail.com/carshow2.htm.)  There were a couple of
stunning '57 Pontiacs there owned by a guy and his brother from Carbon
Hill, AL - one was a white Star Chief and the other a coral-colored
Chieftain.  The link is http://newmand.oldsgmail.com/carshow5.htm

Thanks to Mark Tupper for posting that page, too.  :-)

Later, 


Doug Newman                  1987 442              OCA # 30311
Columbus, MS                    

http://store.oldsgmail.com                             The Store    
http://newmand.oldsgmail.com                       My Home Page

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:05:21 -0400
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic - S10 Transmission Problem

 Parked it in the driveway and it's
leaking pretty good (dipstick perhaps?).  No matter, fluid isn't that
low, so I'm not wanting to spend lots of time looking for a leak.
Dave

Dave try and find the source of the leak. A transmission need the correct
amount of fluid or it will not shift correctly
If your truck is parked on a slope the rear seal may allow the fluid to leak
out. Check the fly wheel shield for fluid. Your front seal may be leaking.
Does the dipstick tube have a good O ring on it?
If the trany doesn't shifts correctly when it has the correct fluid level
you may have a bad unit. Wouldn't be the first time someone sold a bad
trany.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 14:28:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: it's getting closer

Greetings all,
Well yesterday I finished blasting the last SSII to
make a set for my F-85.  And you thought I was going
to talk about my W-31 engine almost being ready to
breath life  :-)))  From what Jim told me last week,
he's going to try and get it running this Sat, the
16th.  Anyway, today I sprayed the backsides of the
rims black.  Came out pretty good.  I used SEM self
etching primer on the bare rims, then used Krylon 1613
semi-flat black.  The Krylon was recommended by Gary
Riley, who runs a restoration shop in Colorado.  He
recommended it as a do it yourself alternative for
front suspension parts instead of DP80(?) primer and
powdercoating.  Since this set of rims I wanted to try
some things, I figured I'll try this.  Now I just need
to get a couple cans of Dupli-Color DA-1612 that Dan
(his last name escapes me at the moment) recommended
as a close alternative to the correct SSII paint.  The
only problem is I'm having a little difficulty finding
it.  AutoZone carries Dupli-Color but didn't have
DA-1612, they had DA-1610.  Wal-Mart - no, Home Depot
- - no, Menards - no, Napa, which carries Dupli-Color
was closed today.  Soooo, I'm going to check with them
later this week and if I can't find it at a few other
places I'm going to try and check out today, I'll see
if Napa can order it assuming they don't have it in
stock.  I just need to clean 25 bezels and scrap
together a half way decent set of centercaps then I
can give them to my brother who will take them to work
to mount and balance the tires.  I'll be posting some
pics as soon as I find the DA-1612.

Chris
grp442@yahoo.com

1969 W-31 - sitting on jack stands
1970 F-85 - sitting on the rims and tires from the
W-31
1969 442 parts car
1970 F-85 parts car
plus a whole mess of parts for sale.


	
		
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http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:23:59 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed

The thick plottens ...........
The guy used a Toro intake so the shaker air cleaner would fit ....
Most likely a 70' Toro intake - IMOO

The General       patton442@verizon.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Intake decode needed


> Hey Dan,
>
> Do you remember if the carb had a divorced choke ????
> Were there heat tubes running to the carb ????
> The General
>
> The manifold didn't have heat tubes running to the carb, but was set up
for
> them. The housing was oval shaped and not square like the 69's I've seen
in
> the past. It is definately a Toro intake because the carb base was a
almost
> level with the bottom of the heads. The engine block has C heads and the
> block number matches the 68-69 with a regular style "F" with out the
serifs.
> The engine is currently in a  Trans AM. The owner want to put a 400 Poncho
> back into the car. Should be able to pick up the engine in about 2 weeks.
> Once I have the engine I will try to post more info about it.
> Thanks Dan
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:32:38 -0400
From: "John Orr" <olds330@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

   hey george,
   if you get that one let me know how it works out for you. my headers from
kooks will be here in a few weeks,  and nick has told me that I will need a
h.t. starter... he said try dick mill, but summit carries them as well...
nick gave me the part number, but left it at work.
john
67 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 17:00:58 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

John / Milton:

I have just installed one of these on my non olds,  and I like it a lot.

Milton is right, there are two kinds from the factory. However, my solenoid 
is what's giving trouble, and it's the HD ACDelco version that YearOne 
sells. I installed that along with a heat shield. I have manifolds. How 
hard can it be?

So, that's how I came up with buying a high torque unit. I don't need the 
torque. I need something that has been made new. Something that hasn't been 
rebuilt ever - god knows where. A starter that may work just more reliable 
than what I run into otherwise.

I will keep you posted.

George

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 22:50:20 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

George,

> and it's the HD ACDelco version that YearOne
> sells.


Heavy Duty AC Delco solenoid???? If I recollect correctly, D-969 Delco
solenoid fits just about everything.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 00:23:01 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: GM's crappy V6's

8 May 2004 "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:

> What's NOT being seen anymore?

> No 330's, no 425's. Hardly every a 455 anymore.

> Chris Witt

Yea, that's why I stocked up on 403s, 455s, and Cad 500s in the last 
few years.  Now I have to move dozens of engines and 40 switch pitch 
transmissions to my new house.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 23:45:12 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

> > and it's the HD ACDelco version that YearOne
> > sells.
>
>
>Heavy Duty AC Delco solenoid???? If I recollect correctly, D-969 Delco
>solenoid fits just about everything.

Well, they call it HD. It might as well be the part number above. It 
probaby is called HD over the mexican piece of metal you get with your 
29.99 rebuilt starter. And you can order a hd return spring with it at year 
one too.

I bought the aftermarket unit. I will report how it works.

George

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4883
*********************************
