
oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, April 21 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4864



Re: Harmonic Balancer Bolt
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #4863(Good Read)
Re: Harmonic Balancer Bolt
UNBOUNCE: 6 carb setup - Olds 324
RE: Silhouette/Transport/etc Turn Signal Problem
Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?
Re: Large Olds Toy Collection For Sale
Scamming the scammers
Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?
65-70 Big Car center links
Trim that post, mister!
RE: [OT] Scamming the scammers
New stuffs - 66 Cs misc, 68? Chevy Big Car MT pcs?, Runner 72 455 
RE: [OT] Scamming the scammers
Re: New stuffs - 66 Cs misc, 68? Chevy Big Car MT pcs?, Runner 72 455 
71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
RE: Holley 750 DP too rich
Re: Holley 750 DP too rich
Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
Re: Front end alignment questions
Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?
Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?
Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
Re: Toro Pickup on Evil Site
Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:44:12 -1000
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Harmonic Balancer Bolt

All,

I got the bolt off.  My neighbor had an air compressor and impact gun.
Charged up the tank to 150 lbs pressure and bvvvpt bolt came right off.
Thanks for the info and advice to everyone.

Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme (Will roll once again after I return from the SNCO Career
Course)
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: Harmonic Balancer Bolt


> > On my old '72 LeMans, there were some counterbalancing holes in the edge
> of
> > the balancer, into one of which I dropped a 5/32" socket on a 1/4"-drive
> > ratchet handle, and swung the handle around to jam it against the block.
> > This locked the engine solidly enough that I could crack loose the
> balancer
> > bolt.
>
>
> That can be dangerous if those holes are in the outer rubber mounted
> harmonic ring. You could break the ring loose and destroy the harmonic
> balancer. If there is a crank balance mass on the back side of the center
> nub of the harmonic balancer that has balance holes in it, one could use
> those holes, but don't use any holes in the outer ring.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:47:28 EDT
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #4863(Good Read)

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:52:45 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Harmonic Balancer Bolt

>My neighbor had an air compressor and impact gun.
>Charged up the tank to 150 lbs pressure and bvvvpt bolt came right off.

Chris:

Time to run a line over to his house. Hew wouldn't mind, would he? ;)

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:25:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 6 carb setup - Olds 324

Not on the list, respond to srtenney@comcast.net if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   "srtenney" <srtenney@comcast.net>
Subject: 324 CID ENGINE

I have a 6 cabs set up for a olds 324?  It was told to me that it fits =
this engine.  It is a offenhuser manifold with 6- 2 barrel stormbergs.  =
I have not been able to find out anything about this set up.  Is there =
anyone out there that might know.   Thanks
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:48 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Silhouette/Transport/etc Turn Signal Problem

> 62oldsfan@comcast.net writes:
> >[...nothing...]
> 
> Check your battery connections.  :-)

What the heck!?  The screen was full when I pushed send.  Now if I could just
remember what I said.  I think it had something to do with not knowing for sure
what year vehicle was involved and the possibility of the tail light circuit
boards being junk - a typical GM problem lately on APVs and smaller SUVs.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:07:41 -0400
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?

Good day all,

I've been browsing what 4 wheel disc brake options exist for our beloved A
Bodies.  Of course doing so generated a number of questions.  I haven't
spoken to any particular manufacturer's tech support yet as my question is
more Olds/make related than brake related.

Just about every kit out there notes that it is intended for use with "C
clip axles only".  This has always been a weak area for me knowledge-wise,
so please bear with me here. I'm fairly certain the factory rear end in my
W-31 is a 12 bolt "O" type.  And if I'm not mistaken, it does not use C
clips, correct?  Ergo, will none of these brake kits will work with my
current setup?  If so then non-O-type Olds rears must use C clip?

Also, I have heard that any Olds rear end requires some type of machining on
the axle ends/housing ends for the DB install, but I'm not sure that is
true??

Lastly, I know the Olds 12 bolt isn't a "real" 12 bolt and parts are
somewhat difficult to find (esp. gears) thus it seems as if a (gasp, shriek,
horror) Chebby rear may be the way to go, so if I brake it, I won't cry.
And all brand C 12 bolts use C clips, right?  What about others from the
B.O.P. lineup, are they all the same?

Any experience/info is mucho appreciato.

  ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:36:42 -0700
From: Greg Tjosvold <tjosvold@polar7.com>
Subject: Re: Large Olds Toy Collection For Sale

By any chance do you have a 1958 Olds Wagon?

Sincerely,

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:46:16 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Scamming the scammers

Huh, I guess they could not get thru to me on the phone?
- -Hugh
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>From: alphamerit <alphamerit@voila.fr>
>Reply-To: alphamerit@voila.fr
>To: <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Attn. Hugh G. Rection
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:34:45 +0200 (CEST)
>
>
>  Dear Hugh G. Rection,
>
>I have the honour to acknowledge, with thanks the receipt of your mail of 
>Fri, 16 Apr 2004. I wish to state that the issues leading to your mail 
>under reference arose from my mail of  Thu, 15 Apr 2004  to you. I also 
>want to thank you for the effort you made to call me even though your call 
>couldn't go through. Having accepted to assist me in receiving this money 
>for me. I am assuring you that I will keep all our altivities in this 
>transaction secret.
>
>I am hereby sending to you a guide application which you will complete and 
>forward to the bank immediately. Once the bank honours your application, be 
>rest assured that we are going to have the money in your account 
>immediately. Bellow is the guide application;
>................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
>
>ATTN: Mr. Kiata Diop.
>The Assistant General Manager,
>Global Security and Finance,
>International Remmittance Department,
>Dakar-Senegal.
>E-mail <kiata.diop@globalsecurityandfinance.com>
>Date: ...................................
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>I humbly wish to bring to your notice that, I am the cousin of late Mr. 
>Sayed Suhail who lost his life in a auto crash some years back. The late 
>Mr. Sayed Suhail was my cousin and his next of kin. Before the death of my 
>Cousin, he informed me about the
>money he has with your bank Global Security and Finance, Dakar, Senegal 
>amounting to the sum of Three Million, Two Hundred Thousand United States 
>Dollars only, (US$3,200,000.00). I am hereby officialy applying for you to 
>use your good office to pay my brother's money to my bank account as stated 
>below:
>
>Name of your Bank:................................
>Address of your Bank:.................................
>A/C No.........................................
>Swift Code:.........................................
>ABA No............................................
>Bank Telephone No....................................
>Bank Fax No...........................................
>Bank Telex............................................
>
>I here also include my personal contact for any refrence as I will be ready 
>to answer any question relating to this my Cousin's money.
>
>My Name:..............................................
>My Official Address:.................................
>My Residential Address:..............................
>My telephone Number's.............................
>My Fax Number's......................................
>
>I shall be happy if this my humble application is given the attention which 
>it deserves.
>
>Yours Sincerely,
>
>Your Name.
>
>
>NOTE: Kindly notify me after sending the application to the bank, to enable 
>me follow it up. You can call me on my telephone number: +221 640 7184 for 
>further clarification. Once again, I want to emphasis on the urgency of my 
>appeal to you in this regard.
>
>I count on your maximum co operation.
>
>Regards,
>Alpha Merit.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE 
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:10:55 -0400
From: "73H/O OLDSRIP" <jtmwalt@netsync.net>
Subject: Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?

Hi Dan,

Your car may have a Cheby c clip axle if it was one of the W 31's made in
Canada.
 If it is a O type you are correct, it uses a bolt in axle. Better (safer)
in my opinion.

I haven't looked into the brake kits, but it sounds correct that you would
have to machine the flange to accept the hardware designed for the C type.

Type O rear parts are available, just not as good of a gear selection as the
more common type C.
There are only the 2 types of rears available to my knowledge.

Hope that helps a little.

Joe Walters
73 H/O





- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
To: "Olds List" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?


> Good day all,
>
> I've been browsing what 4 wheel disc brake options exist for our beloved A
> Bodies.  Of course doing so generated a number of questions.  I haven't
> spoken to any particular manufacturer's tech support yet as my question is
> more Olds/make related than brake related.
>
> Just about every kit out there notes that it is intended for use with "C
> clip axles only".  This has always been a weak area for me knowledge-wise,
> so please bear with me here. I'm fairly certain the factory rear end in my
> W-31 is a 12 bolt "O" type.  And if I'm not mistaken, it does not use C
> clips, correct?  Ergo, will none of these brake kits will work with my
> current setup?  If so then non-O-type Olds rears must use C clip?
>
> Also, I have heard that any Olds rear end requires some type of machining
on
> the axle ends/housing ends for the DB install, but I'm not sure that is
> true??
>
> Lastly, I know the Olds 12 bolt isn't a "real" 12 bolt and parts are
> somewhat difficult to find (esp. gears) thus it seems as if a (gasp,
shriek,
> horror) Chebby rear may be the way to go, so if I brake it, I won't cry.
> And all brand C 12 bolts use C clips, right?  What about others from the
> B.O.P. lineup, are they all the same?
>
> Any experience/info is mucho appreciato.
>
>   ~ Dan
>
> -------------------------------------
> Daniel R. Gerow
> '70 W-31 4spd post
> dgerow@stonehill.edu
> http://www.oldsrocket.com
> -------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:49:15 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 65-70 Big Car center links

I have detailed pix showing the diffs between type T and type S center links 
for the 65-70 big cars. In case nyone needs. Are they still $180 plus 
shipping? When  I went shopping for a new one, most stores just said "not 
listed". the few places that could find one all apparently traced back to 
the same guy who has the world's supply, because the price was always 
identical, within a penny. No discount either. Makes a tight $100 used one 
look real good.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:50:53 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Trim that post, mister!

Would youse guys that reply to e.g. Milton's posts mind snipping your 
email's fwd'd historical text down to say just the pertinent 300-400 pages 
of previous text?

Thanks, that'd be just great.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:57:55 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [OT] Scamming the scammers

>Huh, I guess they could not get thru to me on the phone?

Huh? Read it again: Apparently you said you'd tried to call _them_:

>>I also want to thank you for the effort you made to call me even though 
>>your call couldn't go through.
[...]
>>I am hereby sending to you a guide application which you will complete and 
>>forward to the bank immediately. Once the bank honours your application, 
>>be rest assured that we are going to have the money in your account 
>>immediately.

Y'know, if the banks were able to simply set up accounts as Deposit Only, at 
least as far as wire transfers are concerned, it might prevent stupid people 
from doing themselves harm by giving out their account numbers in the hopes 
of getting rich...

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! 
http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:03:06 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: New stuffs - 66 Cs misc, 68? Chevy Big Car MT pcs?, Runner 72 455 

Holey moley what a day
Found nice running cond 1972 455, yours for $500/BO, can hold paid orders 
for a year. 4-bbl '250 carb, Ga heads of course, U intake, complete to air 
cleaner. Untouched, all details in place. Broken cast iron AC bracket, but I 
have more of those.

Stripped a '66 Cutlass yesterday:
Side trims, wheel well trims, most have SOME damage, of course. Some 
perfect.
front fender extensions w/ chrome trims
wiper motor w/ original white/ clear pump
hood hinges
trunk decklid springs
67 AM radio w/ knobs
Door panels
Kick panel
coppa-lean from bench seat
taillites- pitted DieCast of course
firewall to lighting WIRING
front turn signals
headlight asms with bezels, not bad at all.
Entire dash, switches, heater controls, etc.
Bracket that mounts starter guide tube to frame
master cyl down brake line
brake junction block
Fusebox and dash WIRING
Door locks, decklid lock and latch, glovebox lock, etc.
and about 100 things I forgot about so far.
Already running the bolts and such thru the washing machine.

Also available:
66-442 convert:
Pinchweld chrome trims, very nice
"442" 4-spd shifter, pretty grungy, needs re-chrome I would say

Running late, on the way out, brother spots 1968? Biscayne- the Big Car- 
still wearing its 4-speed Z-bar. 4dr factory 4-spd car? No time to grab 
that, have to go back later I guess.

ALL STUFF UP FOR GRABS
Interested parties please inquire via phone or DIRECT email, not a post to 
the list, which I may never see...  dirt cheap right away.

Otherwise, watch for it on eVil as I get time to clean/ photo/ post it.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:23:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Brooks <deaconblue1969@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [OT] Scamming the scammers

> Y'know, if the banks were able to simply set up
> accounts as Deposit Only, at 
> least as far as wire transfers are concerned, it
> might prevent stupid people 
> from doing themselves harm by giving out their
> account numbers in the hopes 
> of getting rich...
> 
> -- Andy
> 
Andy - there you go again, using logic.

Actually, I don't think they want to be prevented. 
Stupidity combined with greed can be powerful.  

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:43:03 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: New stuffs - 66 Cs misc, 68? Chevy Big Car MT pcs?, Runner 72 455 

    Hey Chris,
  That Chevy.....  they made those for cop cars  427 - 4 speed  striped
Biscayne,
damn things would hala$$..... rats out of the hole, but endless top end....
New York State Troupers had them on the turnpikes...  :-)
john
67 cutlass supreme

   Biscayne- the Big Car-
 still wearing its 4-speed Z-bar. 4dr factory 4-spd car? No time to grab
 that, have to go back later I guess.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:05 -0500
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions

Oil Usage:
My 71 rocket with 59 original is burning about 1 qt of oil per month. This
car is driven everyday 95% City.
Last year the thermostat stuck and we reached about 250degrees, every since
then the cars has used a quart or so a month...so I checdked her fliuds this
evening, like I do every month and she was was two quarts low this month!!
and I noticed a slight KNOCK when I started her. I added two qt of straight
40 and she stopped knocking. Power is still there...... I don't have any
blue oil smoke... Where is the oil going??? did the heat score the cylinder
walls? Is she worn out enough that it might be time for a rebuild???

Starter question:
I just replaced the starter, it's a remanunfacture and after the cars been
driven and stopped, it turns over REAL slow. I've had this occur on chebbies
(starter is too hot from exhaust). But the starter that was on the car
before never acted this way... what to do?

Sorry for multi questions..... but I'm affraid my Cutlass is dying.

JB Schuren
71Cutlass Conv Rocket 350 w/HEI.
03 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi QC
http://foggy.audioguy.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:51:15 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Holley 750 DP too rich

> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:34:25 -0400
> From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Holley 750 DP too rich
> 
> Hello listers,

snip 

> The carb I.D. # is 3310. 

I know it's a minor point, but from what I remember the 3310 is a 750 cfm 
vacuum secondary carb, not a double pumper as stated in the subject line.

> I also didn't get the secondary diaphragm with the rebuild kit

Again, that is a part for a vacuum secondary carb, not a double pumper.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:20:11 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Holley 750 DP too rich

Kenneth,
I think most of my problem right now is the secondaries. I should have
gotten the secondary diaphram with the kit. I posted a reply to DadsOlds,
and it sums up to the secondaries being the problem. I could just be a
coward and put an Edelbrock on there, but I don't give up that easy.
Thanks.
Pat Swanton.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Holley 750 DP too rich


> > Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:34:25 -0400
> > From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
> > Subject: Holley 750 DP too rich
> >
> > Hello listers,
>
> snip
>
> > The carb I.D. # is 3310.
>
> I know it's a minor point, but from what I remember the 3310 is a 750 cfm
> vacuum secondary carb, not a double pumper as stated in the subject line.
>
> > I also didn't get the secondary diaphragm with the rebuild kit
>
> Again, that is a part for a vacuum secondary carb, not a double pumper.
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:48:22 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions

JBS
Some rebuilt starters they give you at the auto parts store are not what
they seem. If the starter you have replaced has only one field going to the
solenoid it is a standard duty, if it has two feilds with a long post to the
solenoid it is a heavy duty. More often than not the difference in the
starter is more cranking ability for engines with either higher compression
or more cid. Are you using headers?

Check your plugs, if they are tan or grey most likley your not burning oil.
Blow by might another consideration. Check your pcv valve. Any puddles on
the garage floor? Is your inspection pan for your tranny (assuming it is an
auto) wet?
Pat Swanton.





- ----- Original Message -----
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions


> Oil Usage:
> My 71 rocket with 59 original is burning about 1 qt of oil per month. This
> car is driven everyday 95% City.
> Last year the thermostat stuck and we reached about 250degrees, every
since
> then the cars has used a quart or so a month...so I checdked her fliuds
this
> evening, like I do every month and she was was two quarts low this month!!
> and I noticed a slight KNOCK when I started her. I added two qt of
straight
> 40 and she stopped knocking. Power is still there...... I don't have any
> blue oil smoke... Where is the oil going??? did the heat score the
cylinder
> walls? Is she worn out enough that it might be time for a rebuild???
>
> Starter question:
> I just replaced the starter, it's a remanunfacture and after the cars been
> driven and stopped, it turns over REAL slow. I've had this occur on
chebbies
> (starter is too hot from exhaust). But the starter that was on the car
> before never acted this way... what to do?
>
> Sorry for multi questions..... but I'm affraid my Cutlass is dying.
>
> JB Schuren
> 71Cutlass Conv Rocket 350 w/HEI.
> 03 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi QC
> http://foggy.audioguy.net
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:29:07 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: Front end alignment questions

Pat,

This info is a little late, but here goes.

I believe, in the '65 Factory Service Manual anyway, that it give an inital
stock shimming of the upper control arms.  If these shims weren't in place after
the rebuild, It would be harder for the shop to get the alignment right in the
first place.

Steve K.



Rebuilt the 69 442 front end this past weekend.... I drove it home
and noticed these things.

It seems to want to center up and drift to the right.

Turning left, I get smooth steering action (sounds like an ad slogan)

Turning right, I get an initial resistance, then smooth turns.

Any ideas on this? Could this resistance be caused by any settings or is
something binding up? What does negative castor effect?


Pat Clark
IGNITION INC.
P 972-516-8700
F 972-516-8690

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:35:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?

> I've been browsing what 4 wheel disc brake options exist for our beloved A
> Bodies.
> Just about every kit out there notes that it is intended for use with "C
> clip axles only".  This has always been a weak area for me knowledge-wise,
> so please bear with me here. I'm fairly certain the factory rear end in my
> W-31 is a 12 bolt "O" type.  And if I'm not mistaken, it does not use C
> clips, correct?  Ergo, will none of these brake kits will work with my
> current setup?  If so then non-O-type Olds rears must use C clip?


At least for Wilwood, what they are actually referring to is the mounting
brackets for the calipers. Those mounting brackets must bolt onto the flange
at the end of the axle housing. Since we're dealing with older vehicles and
the Chevy 12 bolt would be the choice for performance work, the rear disc
kits are made for the Chevy 12 bolt housing, which is a bolt in on any GM
A-body.


> Also, I have heard that any Olds rear end requires some type of machining
on
> the axle ends/housing ends for the DB install, but I'm not sure that is
> true??


If one were to try to install a Chevy 12 bolt rear disc brake kit on an Olds
axle housing, I can guarantee machine work on the Olds axle housing would be
involved.


> Lastly, I know the Olds 12 bolt isn't a "real" 12 bolt and parts are
> somewhat difficult to find (esp. gears) thus it seems as if a (gasp,
shriek,
> horror) Chebby rear may be the way to go, so if I brake it, I won't cry.


You won't break a Chevy 12 bolt, unless you plan on putting 1000+ HP through
it without a stronger carrier.


> And all brand C 12 bolts use C clips, right?  What about others from the
> B.O.P. lineup, are they all the same?


The hot set up would be to use the C-clip eliminator so that you can use
axle retention at the wheel bearing flanges or to use an aftermarket equal
traction differential that doesn't use C-clips and comes with wheel bearing
retention flanges and different wheel bearings. For that matter, I'll bet
dollars-to-donuts that Wilwood will provide rear caliper mounting brackets
that will also retain the wheel bearings, automatically. That's exactly what
Hurst/Airheart (no longer exists, unfortunately) did for my rear wheel disc
brake system for my Chevy 12 bolt and for my '59 Olds housing.

I would seriously consider Wilwood for your disc brake system supplier.
Since Hurst/Airheart is gone, Wilwood is now the best.
http://www.wilwood.com/products/kits/kits.asp

I also think I need to explain the difference in the rear axle housings. The
only weakness in the Chevy 12 bolt is the C-clips. The reason for the C-clip
is the axle bearing at the wheel is not pressed on. It slides on and the
rollers ride directly on the axle, itself. That's a very stupid idea. Your
axle, and just about every other axle out there has the wheel bearing
pressed onto the axle, with a pressed on locking collar as back up, and the
pressed on bearing/collar holds the axle in the axle housing, via the
bearing retention flange bolted onto the end of the axle housing. The Chevy
12 bolt uses a stupid C-clip snapped on a pin machined onto the differential
end of the axle to hold the axle in the housing. The wheel bearing
free-floats. I've seen several people break a C-clip and watched as the
wheel, brake drum, and axle marches out of the axle housing as the car goes
down the road or track. That causes all sorts of problems. Whatever you do,
you will be very intelligent to install some sort of C-clip eliminator in a
Chevy 12 bolt. There's various ways to do it, including the overkill of
welding on '59-'64 Olds axle housing flanges to your Chevy 12 bolt. That's
what I did, but I had to shorten the 12 bolt by 1.5" on each side anyway for
it to fit properly under Thunder's rear frame and body.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:42:59 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?

not sure about flange bolt pattern on 68-72 a bodies but on my 199777 supreme olds bolt in axles i used the set up off a 1979 turbo t/a with c clips, there was no machining required or problems encountered. but this was for 1973-1977 rear axles. 
mp brake kits use as much oem stuff as possable to keep cost down. i would check with them
ron 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Your car may have a Cheby c clip axle if it was one of the W 31's made in
> Canada.
>  If it is a O type you are correct, it uses a bolt in axle. Better (safer)
> in my opinion.
> 
> I haven't looked into the brake kits, but it sounds correct that you would
> have to machine the flange to accept the hardware designed for the C type.
> 
> Type O rear parts are available, just not as good of a gear selection as the
> more common type C.
> There are only the 2 types of rears available to my knowledge.
> 
> Hope that helps a little.
> 
> Joe Walters
> 73 H/O
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
> To: "Olds List" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:07 AM
> Subject: Rear disc brakes/C clip axles?
> 
> 
> > Good day all,
> >
> > I've been browsing what 4 wheel disc brake options exist for our beloved A
> > Bodies.  Of course doing so generated a number of questions.  I haven't

> > spoken to any particular manufacturer's tech support yet as my question is
> > more Olds/make related than brake related.
> >
> > Just about every kit out there notes that it is intended for use with "C
> > clip axles only".  This has always been a weak area for me knowledge-wise,
> > so please bear with me here. I'm fairly certain the factory rear end in my
> > W-31 is a 12 bolt "O" type.  And if I'm not mistaken, it does not use C
> > clips, correct?  Ergo, will none of these brake kits will work with my
> > current setup?  If so then non-O-type Olds rears must use C clip?
> >
> > Also, I have heard that any Olds rear end requires some type of machining
> on
> > the axle ends/housing ends for the DB install, but I'm not sure that is
> > true??
> >
> > Lastly, I know the Olds 12 bolt isn't a "real" 12 bolt and parts are
> > somewhat difficult to find (esp. gears) thus it seems as if a (gasp,
> shriek,
> > horror) Chebby rear may be the way to go, so if I brake it, I won't cry.

> > And all brand C 12 bolts use C clips, right?  What about others from the
> > B.O.P. lineup, are they all the same?
> >
> > Any experience/info is mucho appreciato.
> >
> >   ~ Dan
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > Daniel R. Gerow
> > '70 W-31 4spd post
> > dgerow@stonehill.edu
> > http://www.oldsrocket.com
> > -------------------------------------
> >
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:52:48 -0500
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions

Not sure about the starter being HD or not, I'll check. stock exhaust
manifolds are in use. I should mention that after the starter install (about
3 months ago) I had to tape the insulation on a "brown" wire to get the
starter to work. This insulationt was rubbed, or burnt through and was
ARCHING when I tried to start the car. I'm not sure if this is still the
issue with slow cranks after the cars been running.

Thanks for the suggestions. The PVC valve is a year old, but that means
nothing. I'll just go ahead and replace that.
Come to think of it, I do believe the tranny pan you mention is rather
wet.... rear main seal?

I'll check the plugs tonight and report back. I will also get the car on the
rack this weekend to investigate the starter and the wet tranny pan
further... any other suggestions are welcome.


JB Schuren.... this list is great... such a wealth of knowledge.

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions


> JBS
> Some rebuilt starters they give you at the auto parts store are not what
> they seem. If the starter you have replaced has only one field going to
the
> solenoid it is a standard duty, if it has two feilds with a long post to
the
> solenoid it is a heavy duty. More often than not the difference in the
> starter is more cranking ability for engines with either higher
compression
> or more cid. Are you using headers?
>
> Check your plugs, if they are tan or grey most likley your not burning
oil.
> Blow by might another consideration. Check your pcv valve. Any puddles on
> the garage floor? Is your inspection pan for your tranny (assuming it is
an
> auto) wet?
> Pat Swanton.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:43 AM
> Subject: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
>
>
> > Oil Usage:
> > My 71 rocket with 59 original is burning about 1 qt of oil per month.
This
> > car is driven everyday 95% City.
> > Last year the thermostat stuck and we reached about 250degrees, every
> since
> > then the cars has used a quart or so a month...so I checdked her fliuds
> this
> > evening, like I do every month and she was was two quarts low this
month!!
> > and I noticed a slight KNOCK when I started her. I added two qt of
> straight
> > 40 and she stopped knocking. Power is still there...... I don't have any
> > blue oil smoke... Where is the oil going??? did the heat score the
> cylinder
> > walls? Is she worn out enough that it might be time for a rebuild???
> >
> > Starter question:
> > I just replaced the starter, it's a remanunfacture and after the cars
been
> > driven and stopped, it turns over REAL slow. I've had this occur on
> chebbies
> > (starter is too hot from exhaust). But the starter that was on the car
> > before never acted this way... what to do?
> >
> > Sorry for multi questions..... but I'm affraid my Cutlass is dying.
> >
> > JB Schuren
> > 71Cutlass Conv Rocket 350 w/HEI.
> > 03 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi QC
> > http://foggy.audioguy.net
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:28:43 -0400
From: james.zito@ps.ge.com
Subject: Re: Toro Pickup on Evil Site

> Is this a real factory conversion?


No.

GM and Olds don't do that.


He!! they don't do nothing no more ....at least nothing right........
Of course that isn't an endorsment of a HIDEOUSLY ugly pimped out version of
a toro camino with a bleeping continental package....

Jim
69 442 conv

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:36:53 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions

JBS,
I have to correct myself on determing which starter you might have. One
feild (thin cooper wire about 1/4 ") coming from the starter body  to the
solenoid, is a low torque starter. A high torque starter has two fields, and
sometimes has an inch long shaft to the solenoid.

 Was the brown wire a fuseable link?




- ----- Original Message -----
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions


> Not sure about the starter being HD or not, I'll check. stock exhaust
> manifolds are in use. I should mention that after the starter install
(about
> 3 months ago) I had to tape the insulation on a "brown" wire to get the
> starter to work. This insulationt was rubbed, or burnt through and was
> ARCHING when I tried to start the car. I'm not sure if this is still the
> issue with slow cranks after the cars been running.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. The PVC valve is a year old, but that means
> nothing. I'll just go ahead and replace that.
> Come to think of it, I do believe the tranny pan you mention is rather
> wet.... rear main seal?
>
> I'll check the plugs tonight and report back. I will also get the car on
the
> rack this weekend to investigate the starter and the wet tranny pan
> further... any other suggestions are welcome.
>
>
> JB Schuren.... this list is great... such a wealth of knowledge.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:48 AM
> Subject: Re: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
>
>
> > JBS
> > Some rebuilt starters they give you at the auto parts store are not what
> > they seem. If the starter you have replaced has only one field going to
> the
> > solenoid it is a standard duty, if it has two feilds with a long post to
> the
> > solenoid it is a heavy duty. More often than not the difference in the
> > starter is more cranking ability for engines with either higher
> compression
> > or more cid. Are you using headers?
> >
> > Check your plugs, if they are tan or grey most likley your not burning
> oil.
> > Blow by might another consideration. Check your pcv valve. Any puddles
on
> > the garage floor? Is your inspection pan for your tranny (assuming it is
> an
> > auto) wet?
> > Pat Swanton.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:43 AM
> > Subject: 71 cutlass oil use and starting questions
> >
> >
> > > Oil Usage:
> > > My 71 rocket with 59 original is burning about 1 qt of oil per month.
> This
> > > car is driven everyday 95% City.
> > > Last year the thermostat stuck and we reached about 250degrees, every
> > since
> > > then the cars has used a quart or so a month...so I checdked her
fliuds
> > this
> > > evening, like I do every month and she was was two quarts low this
> month!!
> > > and I noticed a slight KNOCK when I started her. I added two qt of
> > straight
> > > 40 and she stopped knocking. Power is still there...... I don't have
any
> > > blue oil smoke... Where is the oil going??? did the heat score the
> > cylinder
> > > walls? Is she worn out enough that it might be time for a rebuild???
> > >
> > > Starter question:
> > > I just replaced the starter, it's a remanunfacture and after the cars
> been
> > > driven and stopped, it turns over REAL slow. I've had this occur on
> > chebbies
> > > (starter is too hot from exhaust). But the starter that was on the car
> > > before never acted this way... what to do?
> > >
> > > Sorry for multi questions..... but I'm affraid my Cutlass is dying.
> > >
> > > JB Schuren
> > > 71Cutlass Conv Rocket 350 w/HEI.
> > > 03 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi QC
> > > http://foggy.audioguy.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4864
*********************************
