
oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, May 11 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4884



FW:68 442 Switch Needed
Re: High torque starter?
#2 Water Neck
RE New T-shirt gets comments in Lansing
Re: GM's crappy V6's
RE: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?
Re: GM's crappy V6's
Re: New member to the stable, 1966 Dynamic 88 convertible
Re: High torque starter?
60,000 ???
Re: New T-shirt gets comments in Lansing
Re: 60,000 ???
More on Starters
'64 vs. "65 Console
ceramic coating exhaust manifolds - update
Re: '64 vs. "65 Console
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?
RE: High torque starter?
RE: What's an M intake?
Re: More on Starters
Re: More on Starters
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?
RE: What's an M intake?
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?
Re: High torque starter?
Re: Car Show Photos
RE: What's an M intake?
Re: High torque starter?
Re: ceramic coating exhaust manifolds - update
Re: More on Starters
how much freon pressure?
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?
RE: What's an M intake?
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96   Silhouette?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:21:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Jay Britt <jbritt67@mindspring.com>
Subject: FW:68 442 Switch Needed

Can anyone help one of my fellow EVOC club members with this part for his '68 442?. Reply directly to GWGurnee@webtv.net  

- -----Forwarded Message-----
Would you please forward this to the EVOC   membership? I need a 
Thermostatic Vacuum  Switch for a 1968 Olds 400 cu. in. engine. All '68 
Toros, 400 engines and cars with A/C have such a switch. My phone number 
is (757) 464-4347.      Thanks, George 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:29:33 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

- -------------------------------1084192173
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have it in my Cutlass. Summit had it on sale for $129. Best starter I've 
ever owned. Just put Thorley Headers on my 350 and this starter is easy to 
adjust to fit between them. Slips right in. Lots more torque. Buy it!

Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92 Eldo

- -------------------------------1084192173
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>I have it in my Cutlass. Summit had it on sale for $129. Best starter I=
've ever owned. Just put Thorley Headers on my 350 and this starter is easy=20=
to adjust to fit between them.&nbsp;Slips right in. Lots more torque. Buy it=
!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75 Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190=
 SL Conv.<BR>92 Eldo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1084192173--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:49:14 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: #2 Water Neck

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:56:10 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: What's an M intake? - and other stuff

While we are on numbers, I have a cast zinc Tstat housing
that has the offset neck, and carries the number "2".
Any ideas what it is ??
It uses the bent bypass hose. Me thinks it came from a 2 barrell 67'.

The General       patton442@verizon.net
====================
Typical 1966-67 era water neck
exact range of application not clear w/o consulting a real parts manual.
I have examples of [no number], #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 at this time, and one cast 
iron unit as well [requires the J shaped hose].

#2 was used on the L69 Tri-carb units, I believe.
Lately 1970 W30 folks have bee requesting the #5 in great condition for 
their restorations.
By the way, I think those are AL, not ZN, zinc is quite hefty in comparison, 
like a carb body.

This is one of the items that the washing machine works very well on.
Valve rotators, it does not do so well on....

As for scrapping A4 intakes, fear not, that will not happen unless they are 
broken a lot.
Shoot, I still have one A5 intake, because it's NOS. Now, to find the right 
buyer for it.....

Please note that our computer is suffering and needs to go down for service 
approximately 5/10-5/14/04
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:09:25 -0400
From: james.zito@ps.ge.com
Subject: RE New T-shirt gets comments in Lansing

They were indeed an eVil bay item.  I got 2 of them about 2 years ago.
Shortly after I bought mine they disappeared from eVil.  I suspect that
Grand Ma got wind of them and shut him down.  I have the gentleman's e-mail
addy on the other computer so if you'd like I can send that to you on
request, maybe he is still doing them just underground.  Kinda like Santa
Cleese and his old lady ......

Jim
69 442 conv

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:37:58 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: GM's crappy V6's

> Maybe they got the straight 6 right? The 
> Tlairbrazel engine?

All except for those disintegrating cylinder sleeves...

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:21:25 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?

Previously in our saga, we wrote:
>The Bar's Leak is now in per the directions, I added another
>half-gallon of coolant to get the level back where it's supposed
>to be, road-tested for 15-30 minutes, and parked it for the night.
>In a day or so I'll clean the engine again and look for leaks
>after that.

It's now been five days, the van's been in constant use around town as well 
as a >100-mile round trip to see the relatives on Mother's Day, and I'm 
going to cautiously say: the Bar's Leak seems to have worked!

With this level of usage prior to the treatment, the van would have been due 
for another gallon of coolant by now, but as of this morning, the radiator's 
still full to the brim and the surge tank level is right where it should be. 
The oil is also clean (it was changed about 1700 miles back and has never 
showed signs of contamination) and at the right level, and the temperature 
gauge has been normal at all times.

So aside from the fact that the coolant is now a rather hideous black color 
due to the Bar's Leak, we have no further symptoms and can postpone an 
intake gasket job for a while. We'll just keep making regular donations to 
the ol' Rainy Day fund at the credit union: it'll end up going towards 
either an eventual repair or a down-payment on something else. I think the 
Something Else is more likely, but we're shooting for next year rather than 
this year to do that, prior to our Mount Rushmore trip in 2005...

Next up: A noisy lifter that drains down overnight and makes embarrassing 
noises for the first couple of minutes when cold. I'm thinking of upgrading 
from 5W-30 to 10W-30 and see if that helps. Comments welcome...

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. 
http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GM's crappy V6's

Hey Bruce, The way to go! I only have 20 big block
Olds and only ten 350/403's some diesels. I better get
some more. I only have 2 switch pitches, I figue I
have enough for my lifetime.  Later, Ken 
- --- bcroe@juno.com wrote:
> 8 May 2004 "Christopher Witt"
> <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> > What's NOT being seen anymore?
> 
> > No 330's, no 425's. Hardly every a 455 anymore.
> 
> > Chris Witt
> 
> Yea, that's why I stocked up on 403s, 455s, and Cad
> 500s in the last 
> few years.  Now I have to move dozens of engines and
> 40 switch pitch 
> transmissions to my new house.  Bruce Roe



	
		
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:19:18 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: New member to the stable, 1966 Dynamic 88 convertible

> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:21:34 -0400
> From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
> Subject: Re: New member to the stable, 1966 Dynamic 88 convertible
> 
> Either 65 or 66 in the light blue color is one of the 
> prettiest cars ever
> made in my opinion. Such wonderful body lines. Congrats.
> 
> >  It has a
> > 1971 Ga 455 engine, suppose to run.
> 
> Didn't they come with 425's?
> 
> drc

Just a minor detail, but in 1971 the 455 used G heads; in 1972 GA heads were used.
Should be essentially the same engine, though.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:26:37 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

> Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 17:00:58 -0700
> From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: High torque starter?
> 
> I need something that has been made new. Something 
> that hasn't been rebuilt ever - god knows where.
>
> 
> George

I agree that if you buy a $29.99 rebuilt starter at AutoZone or 
wherever you WILL be using that lifetime warranty, as you get 
exactly what you paid $29.99 for. 

I have always had very good results with having my original high 
torque starter rebuilt at a reputable electric shop that rewinds 
starter/armatures. Most of the time the cost is the same as 
purchasing a remanufactured unit, but you have YOUR unit rebuilt 
to factory specs with all new parts. 

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:41:16 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: 60,000 ???

   hey all,
  I was looking over the cars for sale at 442.com.....  Is me, am I missing
something
here, 60,000 for a 71 drop top W30??????
john
67 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:04:31 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: New T-shirt gets comments in Lansing

On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 11:46:37PM -0400, Christopher Witt wrote:
> My T-shirt for today got several positive comments as I went about my 
> business in town. The shirt front says
> 
> Before Chevy, before Dodge, even before Ford, there has been Oldsmobile
> 
> Back:
> General Motors Management SHAFTED!!! Oldsmobile

Somebody at the Olds show in Scottsdale this past February had one of those. 
A quick googling of the text on the shirt didn't turn up anything useful.

  _/_  Scott Alfter (scott@alfter.us)
 / v \ '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 60,000 ???

- --0-946069020-1084210293=:2650
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It's called fishing.
 
Maybe they can hook somebody?
 
But then again, these cars may be wrth the cash. Have you priced a Hemi Cuda lately?
 
Most Oldses are absolute bargains compared to Shelby Mustangs and the Mopars
 
- -- John Pajak
 


JOHN ORR <jorr@paylessequipment.com> wrote:
hey all,
I was looking over the cars for sale at 442.com..... Is me, am I missing
something
here, 60,000 for a 71 drop top W30??????
john
67 cutlass supreme

		
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- --0-946069020-1084210293=:2650
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>It's called fishing.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Maybe they can hook somebody?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But then again, these cars may be wrth the cash. Have you priced a Hemi Cuda lately?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Most Oldses are absolute bargains compared to Shelby Mustangs and the Mopars</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-- John Pajak</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>JOHN ORR &lt;jorr@paylessequipment.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">hey all,<BR>I was looking over the cars for sale at 442.com..... Is me, am I missing<BR>something<BR>here, 60,000 for a 71 drop top W30??????<BR>john<BR>67 cutlass supreme<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>
		<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_footer_textlink/evt=23983/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover">Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs </a>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:04:45 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: More on Starters

I can tell you that the AC Delco starter that they claim is for a 455 IS
NOT a high torque starter. I bought one and installed it. The starter
could barely turn my engine over. And, I do have a Optima battery and
new cables.

I found a place in Pennsylvania (from Hemmings) that rebuilds starters.
I bought one for $60, and it spins my engine over like a mini
starter.....

Trying to find the receipt so I can post......

Don't buy the AC Delco starter!!!!!

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:38:28 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: '64 vs. "65 Console

Hello list,

How different are the '65 and '64 Cutlass manual transmission consoles?  I have
a '65 Cutlass and found a '64 console for sale.  My Cutlass is very stock, and
before spending the money I would want to know how correct or incorrect it would
be.

My experience is that '64 and '65 are similar, and '66 and changed quite a bit.

Thanks,  Steve K.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: ceramic coating exhaust manifolds - update

- --0-25317202-1084220189=:91254
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

A little while ago I mentioned my preference of having the factory exhaust manifolds ceramic coated.  I believe Jon Wessel asked if they also do the insides.  Well, today I dropped off my manifolds at Ram Air Restoration Enterprises and talked with Paul Delfeld.  He said they do coat the inside with a silver ceramic coating which is the same as the outside coating.  But to get the factory grey coating they put on a color topcoat.  My small block manifolds will be $150 and take about 2 weeks.  He said some of the pitting on the manifolds would be hidden by the grey color, which is good.  He also said they can coat the studs too, meaning I wouldn't have to remove them.  The coating is only a few microns so there wouldn't be any problems with having to strip it off the threads or the nuts not fitting.  BTW, he had a real nice (but dusty) white 70 RAIV Judge sitting at his shop.
I'll update everyone in about 3 weeks when I pick up the manifolds.
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 
1969 W-31
1970 F-85
1969 442 parts car
1970 F-85 parts car
plus a whole mess of parts for sale

		
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- --0-25317202-1084220189=:91254
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<DIV>A little while ago I mentioned my preference of having the factory exhaust manifolds ceramic coated.&nbsp; I believe Jon Wessel asked if they also do the insides.&nbsp; Well, today I dropped off my manifolds at Ram Air Restoration Enterprises and talked with Paul Delfeld.&nbsp; He said they do coat the inside with a silver ceramic coating&nbsp;which is the same as the outside coating.&nbsp; But to get the factory grey coating they put on a color topcoat.&nbsp; My small block manifolds will be $150 and take about 2 weeks.&nbsp; He said some of the pitting on the manifolds would be hidden by the grey color, which is good.&nbsp; He also said they can coat the studs too, meaning I wouldn't have to remove them.&nbsp; The coating is only a few microns so there wouldn't be any problems with having to strip it off the threads or the nuts not fitting.&nbsp; BTW, he had a real nice (but dusty) white 70 RAIV Judge sitting at his shop.</DIV>
<DIV>I'll update everyone in about&nbsp;3 weeks when I pick up the manifolds.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 W-31</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85</DIV>
<DIV>1969 442 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>plus a whole mess of parts for sale</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_footer_textlink/evt=23983/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover">Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs </a>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:17:49 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: '64 vs. "65 Console

Hey List,
    
    The 64-69 manual transmission
consoles are the same - basically ...........
The 64 and 65 consoles had a light in the rear - this was
discontinued late in 65. The lens and bezel was painted
over and the wiring dropped. Look in a parts catalog
for console wiring and it will list a light harness for 64-65
for the manual transmissions .......... as for the auto console
the 64-66 in much different than the 67-69 variety ...

The General

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:39:03 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?

Andy,

I haven't had time to put the Bars Leak in. I'll try to do it in the next
couple of days.


> Next up: A noisy lifter that drains down overnight and makes embarrassing
> noises for the first couple of minutes when cold. I'm thinking of
upgrading
> from 5W-30 to 10W-30 and see if that helps. Comments welcome...


Try the 10/30. It may help. Also, Mobil 1 seems to work wonders. I never
thought I'd ever say that about a synthetic engine oil after being
thoroughly burned by AmsOil many, many years ago.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:40:17 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: High torque starter?

I have this starter on my 69 350.  Almost flipped the engine on the test
stand ;-)

Very impressive.

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI


> -----Original Message-----
> From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net [mailto:geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:26 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: High torque starter?
> 
> 
> Anyone uses this?
> 
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D820311
> 
> The rebuilds I have never last long. I am getting real tired 
> of them. Even 
> with a hd solenoid and heat shield they don't do well. So, I 
> figured I'd 
> try this one next. Please let me know your experiences, on a 
> daily driver!
> 
> Cheers, George
> 71 c/s (starter trouble)
> 71 442 (1966 original c/s starter 70k miles on it, works perfect!)
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:44:12 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: What's an M intake?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Harrison [mailto:k0xp@dandy.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 12:12 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: What's an M intake?
> 
> 
> At 10:34 AM 5/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >#1 small block intake. First year of issue, 1964 330? NOPE... 
> >it was first of the NEXT GENERATION of SBO's 1976 or 1977 or 
> >so: Cast Iron, with EGR, and 2 PUNY ports for... the QJet 
> >Lookalike Faux Four Barrel carb!!!
> 
> You mean, 2 bbl for the Dual Jet Rochester??
> 
> AFAIK, those were only used on 260s, as there were no 2 bbl 
> 350s, 403s or
> 307s.

My 69 Cutlass Convertible was a 2 bbl 350 (now an Edelbrock Performer with a
Quadrajet).

See Webpage for original photo:
http://homepage.mac.com/tcbracing/PhotoAlbum1.html

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:54:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: More on Starters

Everyone,

If you buy a stock type high torque starter for an Olds, make sure it has
***two*** flat leads at the end of the case that are attached to the
solenoid. If the starter has only one flat lead, it is *not* a high torque.

Two flat leads means the starter has 3 field coils and one shunt coil, which
makes a high torque starter the GM way. One flat lead means the starter has
only 4 field coils and nothing else, which is not a high torque starter.

If the scanner module worked on my HP printer/copier/Fax/scanner, I could
scan and send the relevant pages from the '65 Olds shop manual which
illustrates this arrangement in great detail.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
To: "Oldsmobile-Digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:04 PM
Subject: More on Starters


> I can tell you that the AC Delco starter that they claim is for a 455 IS
> NOT a high torque starter. I bought one and installed it. The starter
> could barely turn my engine over. And, I do have a Optima battery and
> new cables.
>
> I found a place in Pennsylvania (from Hemmings) that rebuilds starters.
> I bought one for $60, and it spins my engine over like a mini
> starter.....
>
> Trying to find the receipt so I can post......
>
> Don't buy the AC Delco starter!!!!!
>
> Paul Tumolo
> 1970 442 hardtop
> OCA # 31967
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:04:49 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More on Starters

> I can tell you that the AC Delco starter that they claim is for a 455 IS
> NOT a high torque starter. I bought one and installed it. The starter
> could barely turn my engine over.

- --------------

What Delco No. did they give you?  My strong suspicion is that it was not
the correct listing for a high compression 455.  I have had excellent luck
with the Delco starter listed for the '68-'70 455.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:08:30 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?

At 01:39 PM 5/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Also, Mobil 1 seems to work wonders. I never thought I'd ever 
>say that about a synthetic engine oil after being thoroughly 
>burned by AmsOil many, many years ago.
>
>Milton Schick

Are you comparing Mobil 1 vs. Rotella?

One problem I might have with any oil, regardless whether it breaks down by
3,000 miles or not, is that older engines with looser rings seem to suffer
considerable fuel contamination of the oil by that mileage. EVERY TIME I
change my Rotella from 2500 to 3500 miles, it STINKS of gas. Can't tell
whether it's also thinned out but I can tell the oil gage becomes somewhat
more active during the last 1000 miles or so.

So I'd be loathe to change to Mobil 1 only to continue to have to change it
at 3000 mile intervals at a cost more than double that of Rotella.

You've mentioned Wix oil filters as being the best available. I've always
stuck with Delco (PF58 for my '88 307) but they're getting harder and
harder to find so I'm willing to switch. What were the numbers for the Wix
filters again?? Sometime this summer, perhaps I'll finally get my 425
installed in the BBA and we'll go to town  :o)

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:12:25 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: What's an M intake?

At 04:44 PM 5/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> AFAIK, those were only used on 260s, as there were no 2 bbl 
>> 350s, 403s or
>> 307s.
>
>My 69 Cutlass Convertible was a 2 bbl 350 (now an Edelbrock Performer with a
>Quadrajet).

OOOKKK.... yup, you'll never guess how easily that right foot slipped into
my mouth on that one. I KNEW that, just didn't stop to think  ;o(((((

I *think* I was thinking about the later '76-'80 350s, though: were there
any 2 bbl versions of those??

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:47:02 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?

> with Delco (PF58 for my '88 307)

Wix: 51522
CarQuest: 85522
Napa Gold: 1522

By application, your '88 307 calls for a 85045 CQ#, which has metric threads
(18 x 1.5mm), while the 85522 which crosses from the PF58 has SAE threads
(13/16-16)....obviously something is amiss.

xx522 fits '93-'02+ GM cars, xx045 fits '77-'92

Olds V-8's from '49 - early '59 use a CQ 85121
Late '59 - '67 use a CQ 85049
'68 - '76 use CQ 85258

If you haven't figured it out....Wix makes the CarQuest Blue and Napa Gold
filters....all use the same last 3 digits.

Hope this helps,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:48:20 -0500
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

ken,

Thanks for your response.
I got my original starter in hand and I'm heading to the old auto electric
shop around the corner from me to get their advice.


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: High torque starter?


> > Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 17:00:58 -0700
> > From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
> > Subject: Re: High torque starter?
> >
> > I need something that has been made new. Something
> > that hasn't been rebuilt ever - god knows where.
> >
> >
> > George
>
> I agree that if you buy a $29.99 rebuilt starter at AutoZone or
> wherever you WILL be using that lifetime warranty, as you get
> exactly what you paid $29.99 for.
>
> I have always had very good results with having my original high
> torque starter rebuilt at a reputable electric shop that rewinds
> starter/armatures. Most of the time the cost is the same as
> purchasing a remanufactured unit, but you have YOUR unit rebuilt
> to factory specs with all new parts.
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:51:46 -0400
From: "ftfunnyfarm" <ftfunnyfarm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Car Show Photos

Doug...thanks for the link to the car show! Sure had very awesome
rides.....its hard to pick a favorite!!!!

Tami

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:46:37 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: RE: What's an M intake?

At 12:12 AM 5/11/04 +0000, you wrote:
>OOOKKK.... yup, you'll never guess how easily that right foot slipped into
>my mouth on that one. I KNEW that, just didn't stop to think  ;o(((((

I thought that Olds went with 4-bbls across the board on all 350's starting 
in '73.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:02:32 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: High torque starter?

>I have always had very good results with having my original high
>torque starter rebuilt at a reputable electric shop that rewinds
>starter/armatures. Most of the time the cost is the same as
>purchasing a remanufactured unit, but you have YOUR unit rebuilt
>to factory specs with all new parts.

Ken, but what if you got your car with a 29.99 starter already on it. ;). 
The solenoid is what's crapping out on me, and that's a $35 unit by itself, 
from Year One. The starter motor itself is just fine.

On the 442 I put a used OEM stater out of a 66 C/S with the high comp. 330. 
That starter is sweet! So, if that one ever goes, I will take your advice 
and have it locally rewound!

Cheers, George





>Kenneth
>1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
>Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:05:45 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: ceramic coating exhaust manifolds - update

Chris:

Why coat exhaust manifolds on the inside? They will be covered with carbon 
soon after! ;)

George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:04:22 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: More on Starters

>What Delco No. did they give you?  My strong suspicion is that it was not
>the correct listing for a high compression 455.  I have had excellent luck
>with the Delco starter listed for the '68-'70 455.

Fred:

It is sad but true, but I think the Delco quality isn't what it used to be.

George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:16:08 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: how much freon pressure?

All,

	After charging up the A/C system in my Honda, I turned my sights on the
1989 Olds Delta 88.  It doesn't feel exactly weak per se, but doesn't quite
seem to have the oomph I  seem to recall.

	I was familiar with the location of the high and low side ports on the
1986 Delta, so I figured the systems were just about identical.


	So, digging under the hood of the 1989....  Hmm... well, there's the
high-side port, on that canister-thingy by the firewall (I'm sure it's got
a proper name), but where the heck is the low-side port?

	Ah well, I'll just monitor the high-pressure to see how much I've got.


	Odd, the little reference sheet only lists the full-size FWD cars up to 1988.

	Annoying, incredibly so, in that accessing the port is awkward because of
these bundled wires right by it which are hard to move!


	But, lo and behold!  When I hook up the manifold set, this supposed "high
pressure" port is actually low-pressure . . dropping whenever the
compressor turns on!

	I know there's a name for this other oddball type system, and I guess any
freon I add has to go in this port.

	But what amount of pressure should I be reading?  Should I be checking it
at a certain RPM?  (the "normal" type systems I'm used to suggest 2000 RPM).

	Any guidance anyone can offer would be very much appreciated!


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:31:59 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?

At 08:47 PM 5/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> with Delco (PF58 for my '88 307)
>
>Wix: 51522
>CarQuest: 85522
>Napa Gold: 1522
........
>If you haven't figured it out....Wix makes the CarQuest Blue and Napa Gold
>filters....all use the same last 3 digits.

Izzat a fact? But, are those filters actually made the same way as the
filters that Wix sells under their own name, or are they made more-cheaply?

I had to settle for a NAPA last Friday nite and took great pains to stress
to the NAPA counterman that I'd not buy any filters other than Delco, so if
they wanted my filter biz, they'd better start restocking Delco.

Personally, I have a real problem with companies that buy components en
masse and then have them rebranded in their own likeness. Unless you work
behind the scenes, you just never can be certain just what you are getting
(as if you could be any more certain that Delco products are not now being
manufactured by the lowest Indian bidder  ;o\

Whatever happened to the notion in this country that certain brands just
represent QUALITY and one hardly ever needs question their products?? I'm
not about to go assuming that a Carquest or Autozone or Advance-branded
filter has nearly the same construction and material quality as, say, Delco
or Wix. First, you'll have to prove it. Next, you'll have to prove that
they haven't simply downgraded the construction/material quality after
snagging a notable share of the market, in a desire to cut costs and
increase profits. THAT'S my main concern about shifting to an off-brand
product: I never know when they have changed something to cut costs.

That's not to say that Delco, et al don't do the same thing: it's just that
year after year, one hears and sees evidence of continuing quality in Delco
products that builds consumer trust. Off-brand products, especially those
that seem to pop up outta nowhere, don't.

As far as parts having the same or very-similar PNs goes: MANY suppliers do
that, purposely, in attempts to snag market share. That certainly doesn't
mean their product is simply a renamed quality-name product, mass-produced
and branded to reduce costs slightly and thus be sold under the price of
the quality product they're marketed to be "equivalent" to.

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:46:38 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: What's an M intake?

At 09:46 PM 5/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>At 12:12 AM 5/11/04 +0000, you wrote:
>>OOOKKK.... yup, you'll never guess how easily that right foot slipped into
>>my mouth on that one. I KNEW that, just didn't stop to think  ;o(((((
>
>I thought that Olds went with 4-bbls across the board on all 350's starting 
>in '73.

That's what I was thinking, too, and why I made that earlier statement.

Motor's Manual can't be considered any kind of authoritive source of this
kind of info, although it's a hundred times more likely to be accurate than
Chilton's. That being said, my '83 Motor's Manual, which goes back to '77,
shows 2 bbls only on the 260, Ch*bby 305 and Poncho 301 V8 engines as
installed in Oldsmobiles. Very curiously, and what I believe to be a
mistake, it DOES list a 2 bbl 307 in 1981. This animal is listed alongside
a 4 bbl 307 and both have the same HP and torque ratings at the same rpms.
They are also both listed as 307-Y VIN codes. There is no other listing for
a 2 bbl 307 Olds engine that I've ever found.

My next-oldest Motor's Manual is 1968, going back to '62 and of course, it
shows the first year of the 350 as having one 2 bbl version, 9.0:1 CR and
rated at 250 hp @ 4400 rpm, 355 lbs-ft torque @ 2600 rpm. The other two 350
options were 4 bbls.

I don't have any other readily-available data from '69-'77.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:01:38 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96  Silhouette?

>
> As far as parts having the same or very-similar PNs goes: MANY suppliers do
> that, purposely, in attempts to snag market share.

They also go through great pains to have the product look exactly the same while using inferior materials. This is one
of the oldest profit grabs going, 'cause it works so well.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:01:09 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96   Silhouette?

> >Wix makes the CarQuest Blue and Napa Gold filters.
>
> Izzat a fact?

Yep

>are those filters actually made the same way as the
> filters that Wix sells under their own name,

Yep...they're identical filters. I've seen the cutaways

>Unless you work behind the scenes,

As I do, being a CarQuest store manager and soon to be owner.

> not about to go assuming that a Carquest or Autozone or Advance-branded
> filter has nearly the same construction and material quality as, say,
Delco
> or Wix. First, you'll have to prove it.

Not a problem.....time to fix my scanner or send you the WIX tech line
number.

So, if you were to go into a CarQuest or Napa, you wouldn't buy a chassis
part or belt/hose even though Moog makes the chassis products and Gates
makes the rubber? OR even plug wires from CarQuest, even though they are
made by Prestolite who manufacturers 90% of the OEM plug wires?

Something else to ponder...why would these companies risk their reputation
by having their names on the "aftermarket" stores boxing if they were
providing an inferior or lesser quality product? Don't you think that would
come back to bite them if the products weren't up to their standards? Also,
why would they offer lifetime gaurantees on many of the product lines if
they didn't expect them to last? It isn't CarQuest, Napa, AutoZone etc. that
takes the hit when a part comes back defective or under warranty.....it's
the manufacturer. The jobber sends them back to the distributor to get their
money back, then the distributor sends them back to the manufacturer. It's
also the manufacturer who ultimately pays for any labor claims that result
from defective products.

> As far as parts having the same or very-similar PNs goes: MANY suppliers
>do that, purposely, in attempts to snag market share.

Agreed....I can show you a line of inexpensive (like the crappy Purolator)
filter that the manufacturer sells under atleast 6 different "brand" names.
Same cheap filter (under $2 in most cases), very similar part
numbers.....different names. One of those is the CarQuest red filters and
you know....every dealership that I deal with requests those filters instead
of the more costly Blue box Wix filters when there is a choice. Why? Because
they meet OEM specs and are cheap!!

As far as market share....that's why suppliers such as Wix, Moog, Gates,
Raybestos, Gabriel etc. rebox their products under anothers name. It's
called, we'll buy x-amount of product from you yearly, for x-discount/price
BUT we want it relabelled under OUR name.

Pep-Boys puts out a bid every year for supplying their brand of oil. I'm not
sure who won the bid for this year, but I do know that last years second
place bid only lost out by .02 per quart.

Some suppliers are semi smart....they sell rebranded products, but the
jobber also has to sell their name brand item. ie. Permatex....same product
as the CarQuest brand hanging next too it....difference? CQ is 1/2 the
price. Matter of fact, you'll find the Permatex part number on the CQ
product along with the CQ part number. Gunk, CRC....same deal, just not with
their part #'s. Same with Napa.....actually Napa and CQ use many of the same
suppliers. Exhaust is one exception...Napa uses Walker.

Randy

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4884
*********************************
