
oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, March 10 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4811



Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Engine knocking
Re: bearing rolling
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
Re: Engine knocking
RE: bearing rolling
Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!
RE: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
Protect-O-Plate decode
Re: Engine knocking
Re: bearing rolling
Re: Engine knocking
RE: Low RPM, Max Torque 455
Re: Low RPM, Max Torque 455

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:37:37 -0600
From: "Bob" <macs63rd@iols.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Hello this is not a 442 it is a cutlass S does anybody look at the
pictures..
the side of the body looks like a cutlass S to me.
Bob

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!


> >Many people are novices and simply don't know they can or how to do it.
> >They
> >see something they want and fall for the hype. I'm sure that many eBay
> >sales
> >are that way and not just for cars and car related items.
>
> Right, Milton, but I meant that the _seller_, in this particular case, was
> going on and on ad nauseum about how gosh-darned _rare_ this thing is,
> trying to sound as knowledgeable as possible about the car, which leads me
> to wonder, if a simple VIN lookup would point out the fake, whether
they're
> being naive or crooked. Given the big long speech about Olds history and
> 442s (even though it seems to have been lifted from somewhere else), I'm
> leaning towards the latter.
>
> I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be fun to do a
Google
> search on selected excerpts from their Olds history essay in that ad and
see
> where else that writing can be found.
>
> -- Andy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:43:39 -0600
From: "Bob" <macs63rd@iols.com>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Does not have the right harmonic balancer either, looks like a basket case.
Bob
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!


> >Many people are novices and simply don't know they can or how to do it.
> >They
> >see something they want and fall for the hype. I'm sure that many eBay
> >sales
> >are that way and not just for cars and car related items.
>
> Right, Milton, but I meant that the _seller_, in this particular case, was
> going on and on ad nauseum about how gosh-darned _rare_ this thing is,
> trying to sound as knowledgeable as possible about the car, which leads me
> to wonder, if a simple VIN lookup would point out the fake, whether
they're
> being naive or crooked. Given the big long speech about Olds history and
> 442s (even though it seems to have been lifted from somewhere else), I'm
> leaning towards the latter.
>
> I've lost the original eVil site URL now, but it might be fun to do a
Google
> search on selected excerpts from their Olds history essay in that ad and
see
> where else that writing can be found.
>
> -- Andy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:58:42 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2464099361&category=15287

No reply from the seller as of right now. Would someone with an eVil site 
account like to send a note to the purchaser (link available on the sale 
page above) stating what we've learned? From yesterday's email to the 
seller:

The VIN of 336878M299810 for what is claimed to be a 1968 Olds 442 actually 
identifies it as a Cutlass, according to the VIN decoder page at 
http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/vin. (The 442 VIN code should begin 
with 34487.)

In addition, large portions of the text of that ad have been lifted from the 
copyrighted page at 
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442.shtml.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:17:21 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

rolling mean that  after you install the nail you turn the crank slowly and the olds brg rolls out,
the new one is then place on crank journel and slid as far as possiable you may have to apply prsi
on the brg half as you rotate crank . in some cases it can be a real pain. on the back side of brg
is the brg size, is original it just has p/n if undersized it will have 0.010  or approperate size.
 thats the purpose of the list is to help each other and talk  about our cars. we may get off topic
and not allways agree but  it just goes to show we are just individuals with our own opinions and
knowledge.
 you are welcome.
i have learned alot about performance from this list. milton has awsome knowledge, just like many
others
good luck. if you need to ask a quistion and cant wait for list response call me at 732-986-6388
thats my cell.
take care
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Engine knocking


> Thanks Ron!!!! Man if you have any Comfortron issues, you just let me
> know ;-) Ill run through hell or high water to get you an answer lol. A
> message like this is exactly what Im looking for. I dont have any
> friends or family that work on cars as much as you guys, so I dont have
> anyone to ask questions when things like this happen. I am going to try
> to do it your way probably this weekend or the next one. One question
> though...I know the bottom half of the bearing will probably drop out
> when I drop the caps, but how would I get the top half of the bearing out?
>
> Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know im a
> novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant do
> this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the world.
>
> paulbunyan
>
> 77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >do not under any cicumstances  DO NOT remove all the mains at once,
> >hers how i do it
> >place large hunk of carboaed ubder car  raise  car.position stands out of the way,
> >drain oil remove filter, leaving it drip for a while 30-60min.
> >install drain plug and tighten, disconect battery remove starter, on my car with headers i have
to raise engine and remove engine mounts i use a two 4*4 one on each side of each fender  with a
notch in each block to prevent 3/8 home gas pipe and chain secured to engine  usually a/c bracket
and alt bracket. i also have wedges cut to fit between frame and lower flange of headers just in
case. i then remove pan.remove oil pumpand pick up tube.
> >loosen all the mains after stampint the main and rod caps. i then pull each main first, if they
are are all good no signs of any irregularities i then snug the main caps. then i check each rod
brg, again must be smooth. i then remove  brgs one at a time and torque the main caps after each brg
is installed.be careful to install the caps  correctley, use assembly lube on new brgs before
installing them. keep hands clean and clean crank with break clean.
> >i use lint free rags and snake them around the journels to wipe them down.
> >you may need to insetrt a object in the oil hole in the crank to roll brg out, i use a nail with
a head thickness i/2 of brg  thickness, the thrust brg usually is the biggest pain. once thats done
on all except number 5 . i change the rope seal to the neopreme type, then roll that brg,   then do
the rods
> >reassemble fill with oil and fill oil filter with oil  dis able ignition crank it over a few
times to ensure oil is pumped into the brgs then i fire it up and let it warm up. listen for noises
and if all is well i let it down and take it for a drive.
> >remember  keep it clean. any dirt/foriegn matter can kill the brgs in a short period.
> >did i miss anything guys
> >ron
> >
> >
> >>Thanks!!!! Just the type of answer I was looking for. Too bad I dont
> >>know what rolling the bearings mean, but I am assuming it means to
> >>install the bearings with the crank dropped but the engine still in the
> >>car??? (am i right lol) But thanks again, maybe I wont have to by a new
> >>engine after all. Im thinking the machine shop'll replace the rings,
> >>bearings, etc for under $500...so If I can save the crank all ill have
> >>to windup spending is the money for a rebuild kit and the machining
> >>costs. I guess the first thing I should do is drop the crank and look at
> >>the bearing journals???
> >>
> >>paulbunyan
> >>
> >>
> >>77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes lower oil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>psi. i have driven  some
> >>
> >>
> >>>455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas and others
> >>>
> >>>
> >>blew in days.
> >>
> >>
> >>>its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank is smooth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>and no ridges on
> >>
> >>
> >>>journals
> >>>ron
> >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> >>>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> >>>>looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it to
> >>>>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
> >>>>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> >>>>paulbunyan
> >>>>
> >>>>jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a daily
> >>>>>driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used engine
> >>>>>is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know what your
> >>>>>getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours will take
> >>>>>a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> >>>>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> >>>>>To: Oldsmobile
> >>>>>Subject: Engine knocking
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>All,
> >>>>>Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask the
> >>>>>list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I heard
> >>>>>the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> >>>>>screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the bottom as
> >>>>>well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking. The
> >>>>>knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the valve
> >>>>>covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im thinking I
> >>>>>spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> >>>>>should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get fixed.
> >>>>>Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save this
> >>>>>engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth taking
> >>>>>to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on having
> >>>>>to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the knocking
> >>>>>noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or anything. I
> >>>>>will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its probably
> >>>>>trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the machine
> >>>>>shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of my
> >>>>>neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his parts
> >>>>>and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any trouble yet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>paulbunyan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:22:30 -0500
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: bearing rolling

i have done this several times on high mileage cars and trucks.  yes you can not mike the crank and
you can not garentee it will work. but in most of my experience its due just to wear,the brg did not
damage anything. new brgs and pump and pick up and clean the pan ,
we have a customer with a 1969 olds 88 with a 455  two brg rolls in its 326,451 miles and it still
runs strong. 35 psi at idle hot.
like i said to each his own
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marty Henson" <marty-henson@clayton-engineering.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: bearing rolling


> I can't hold out anymore from putting in my two cents.  I don't believe
> anyone can properly check and replace rod and main bearings with the
> engine still in the car. The most likely problem is with the oil pump or
> crankshaft journals for it to be losing oil pressure and knocking. I
> suspect that you'll be repairing the engine in the near future, if you
> don't pull it out and rebuild it.  Remember Murphy's Law.
> Marty - '72 Cutlass
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of John Kelsey
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:30 PM
> To: olds list
> Subject: bearing rolling
>
> snip   Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know
>
> im a novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant
> do this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the
>
> world.
>
> Paul
>     I've been following this thread and thought maybe an explanation
> from someone else might help. Get the oil pan off, Unbolt the rod
> bearings,   (I usually do one at a time) Ease the bearing cap off. It
> may or may not have half of the bearing in it. If It does not reach up
> with your fingers and pull/pry the lower half of the bearing out and set
>
> it aside. Now the journal will have an oil hole in it. You will need a
> nail or a screw which will just fit into that oil hole. The head on the
> nail or screw should be no thicker than the bearing. You may have to
> grind it down a little to achieve that. Now turn the crank gently and
> the head of that nail/screw will ease the top half of the bearing out
> where you can get to it. You can usually just slip them back in.
> Remember they are slightly keyed on one end so they will only go in one
> way. I hope  you remembered to check the orientation of the bearing cap
> so you can reinstall it facing the right way. I always use plenty of
> assembly lube (available at any good parts store)
> Good luck and post again if any of this doesn't make sense to you
> John Kelsey
> Dayton Ohio
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:23:43 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

I did look at it (explaining things to my kid)  It in fact had a 344 VIN.

M

At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Yeah, I noticed that one, but I was too busy and forgot to have a
>look at the VIN to see if the owner was cloning the 442 part or the
>Ram Rod part (or both). At least it was parked in the "Modified" section
>and the owner wasn't trying to pass it off as the real thing.
>
>Kenneth
>1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
>Phoenix, AZ

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:28:00 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98

Did the '67's have the VIN deriviative stamped on the block?

M

At 07:56 AM 3/9/2004 -0800, Kenneth Treham wrote:
>  Now the
>mystery, E-block, (not D or F) C-heads 4/barrel.  So,
>did they put 400's in the 98's?  Was it an option? We
>don't think the engine was ever change. Later, Ken
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
>http://search.yahoo.com

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:30:00 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

I expect that about halfway through this job, you'll wish you'd pulled the 
engine.  But no problem.  If you run out of good cuss words to use, drop me 
an email.  LOL

At 11:35 AM 3/9/2004 -0500, Paul Bunyan wrote:
>Thanks Ron!!!! Man if you have any Comfortron issues, you just let me know 
>;-) Ill run through hell or high water to get you an answer lol. A message 
>like this is exactly what Im looking for. I dont have any friends or 
>family that work on cars as much as you guys, so I dont have anyone to ask 
>questions when things like this happen. I am going to try to do it your 
>way probably this weekend or the next one. One question though...I know 
>the bottom half of the bearing will probably drop out when I drop the 
>caps, but how would I get the top half of the bearing out?
>
>Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know im a 
>novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant do this 
>so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the world.
>
>paulbunyan

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:51:29 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: RE: bearing rolling

I don't doubt that ron can do this job.  Once in a great while, you learn 
some truly effective shortcuts that people say can't be done. It may not be 
the ideal way to do it, but sometimes it lasts, and can generally be more 
cost and time effective.

M

At 02:20 PM 3/9/2004 -0600, Marty wrote:
>I can't hold out anymore from putting in my two cents.  I don't believe
>anyone can properly check and replace rod and main bearings with the
>engine still in the car. The most likely problem is with the oil pump or
>crankshaft journals for it to be losing oil pressure and knocking. I
>suspect that you'll be repairing the engine in the near future, if you
>don't pull it out and rebuild it.  Remember Murphy's Law.
>Marty - '72 Cutlass

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:47:21 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: WOW, a Ram Rod W-31 1968 442 !!!

Does it still have the 442 in it?

At 02:44 PM 3/9/2004 -0600, Kevin Wright wrote:
>Geez, don't you know that *all* V8 cutlasses are 442s, even if they
>don't have badges or 442 equipment?
>:)

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:14:22 -0500
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: RE: Oddball engine in a 1967 98

No, the VIN stamping started in '68.

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '99 Expedition (no-speed)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Mark Mullins
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:28 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Oddball engine in a 1967 98
>
>
> Did the '67's have the VIN deriviative stamped on the block?
>
> M
>
> At 07:56 AM 3/9/2004 -0800, Kenneth Treham wrote:
> >  Now the
> >mystery, E-block, (not D or F) C-heads 4/barrel.  So,
> >did they put 400's in the 98's?  Was it an option? We
> >don't think the engine was ever change. Later, Ken
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> >http://search.yahoo.com
>
> Mark Mullins
> Tucson, Az
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:50:32 -0500
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: Protect-O-Plate decode

Can someone give me the decode from the following '72 Cutlass?:
TIA

Protect-O-Plate:  20-266               05-24-72

                  3J67K2M223931         00009

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '99 Expedition (no-speed)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:13:35 -1000
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

I am also having a serious knocking problem, mine is on a 350 in a 72
Supreme.  Is there a way to pull the pan and change the bearings  out
without completely pulling the motor??

Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme
(Right now the most beautiful paperweight I ever had)

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Engine knocking


> a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes lower
oil psi. i have driven  some
> 455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas and
others blew in days.
> its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank is
smooth and no ridges on
> journals
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Engine knocking
>
>
> > Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> > looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it to
> > ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it mess
> > up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> > paulbunyan
> >
> > jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
> >
> > >Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a
daily
> > >driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used
engine
> > >is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know what
your
> > >getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours will
take
> > >a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > >[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> > >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> > >To: Oldsmobile
> > >Subject: Engine knocking
> > >
> > >
> > >All,
> > >Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask the
> > >list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I heard
> > >the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> > >screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the bottom as
> > >well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking. The
> > >knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the
valve
> > >covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im thinking
I
> > >spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> > >
> > >Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> > >should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get
fixed.
> > >Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save this
> > >engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth taking
> > >to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on having
> > >to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the knocking
> > >noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or anything. I
> > >will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its probably
> > >trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the
machine
> > >shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of my
> > >neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his parts
> > >and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any trouble
yet.
> > >
> > >paulbunyan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:37:34 -1000
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: bearing rolling

This too??

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Kelsey" <ribspot@pop4.net>
To: "olds list" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:30 AM
Subject: bearing rolling


> snip   Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know 
> im a novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant 
> do this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the 
> world.
> 
> Paul
>     I've been following this thread and thought maybe an explanation 
> from someone else might help. Get the oil pan off, Unbolt the rod 
> bearings,   (I usually do one at a time) Ease the bearing cap off. It 
> may or may not have half of the bearing in it. If It does not reach up 
> with your fingers and pull/pry the lower half of the bearing out and set 
> it aside. Now the journal will have an oil hole in it. You will need a 
> nail or a screw which will just fit into that oil hole. The head on the 
> nail or screw should be no thicker than the bearing. You may have to 
> grind it down a little to achieve that. Now turn the crank gently and 
> the head of that nail/screw will ease the top half of the bearing out 
> where you can get to it. You can usually just slip them back in. 
> Remember they are slightly keyed on one end so they will only go in one 
> way. I hope  you remembered to check the orientation of the bearing cap 
> so you can reinstall it facing the right way. I always use plenty of 
> assembly lube (available at any good parts store)
> Good luck and post again if any of this doesn't make sense to you
> John Kelsey
> Dayton Ohio
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:36:19 -1000
From: "Christopher Brown" <Olds-Supreme72@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine knocking

Well,

Next time Ill just read the list all the way through.  You never know who
has the same issues you do.  Im working with a situation where I dont have
an engine puller, nor do I have an engine stand.  Im in the Marine Corps out
here in Hawaii, and can't guarantee that the Auto Hobby Shop on base has
what I need, nor do I trust leaving it there overnight or for a few days
(not that I think we jarheads steal, but things do tend to get reacquired
from time to time).  Ron, your advice looks sound, but what is the engine
chained too??  And where do I get this neoprene seal?  I remember hearing
something about a Fr0d seal, is that correct?

Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme
Hopefully running some day.
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Engine knocking


> rolling mean that  after you install the nail you turn the crank slowly
and the olds brg rolls out,
> the new one is then place on crank journel and slid as far as possiable
you may have to apply prsi
> on the brg half as you rotate crank . in some cases it can be a real pain.
on the back side of brg
> is the brg size, is original it just has p/n if undersized it will have
0.010  or approperate size.
>  thats the purpose of the list is to help each other and talk  about our
cars. we may get off topic
> and not allways agree but  it just goes to show we are just individuals
with our own opinions and
> knowledge.
>  you are welcome.
> i have learned alot about performance from this list. milton has awsome
knowledge, just like many
> others
> good luck. if you need to ask a quistion and cant wait for list response
call me at 732-986-6388
> thats my cell.
> take care
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Engine knocking
>
>
> > Thanks Ron!!!! Man if you have any Comfortron issues, you just let me
> > know ;-) Ill run through hell or high water to get you an answer lol. A
> > message like this is exactly what Im looking for. I dont have any
> > friends or family that work on cars as much as you guys, so I dont have
> > anyone to ask questions when things like this happen. I am going to try
> > to do it your way probably this weekend or the next one. One question
> > though...I know the bottom half of the bearing will probably drop out
> > when I drop the caps, but how would I get the top half of the bearing
out?
> >
> > Can you elaborate on this bearing rolling procedure a bit? I know im a
> > novice but I already plan on buying a new engine anyways if I cant do
> > this so if I mess this up Ill be pissed but it wont be the end of the
world.
> >
> > paulbunyan
> >
> > 77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > >do not under any cicumstances  DO NOT remove all the mains at once,
> > >hers how i do it
> > >place large hunk of carboaed ubder car  raise  car.position stands out
of the way,
> > >drain oil remove filter, leaving it drip for a while 30-60min.
> > >install drain plug and tighten, disconect battery remove starter, on my
car with headers i have
> to raise engine and remove engine mounts i use a two 4*4 one on each side
of each fender  with a
> notch in each block to prevent 3/8 home gas pipe and chain secured to
engine  usually a/c bracket
> and alt bracket. i also have wedges cut to fit between frame and lower
flange of headers just in
> case. i then remove pan.remove oil pumpand pick up tube.
> > >loosen all the mains after stampint the main and rod caps. i then pull
each main first, if they
> are are all good no signs of any irregularities i then snug the main caps.
then i check each rod
> brg, again must be smooth. i then remove  brgs one at a time and torque
the main caps after each brg
> is installed.be careful to install the caps  correctley, use assembly lube
on new brgs before
> installing them. keep hands clean and clean crank with break clean.
> > >i use lint free rags and snake them around the journels to wipe them
down.
> > >you may need to insetrt a object in the oil hole in the crank to roll
brg out, i use a nail with
> a head thickness i/2 of brg  thickness, the thrust brg usually is the
biggest pain. once thats done
> on all except number 5 . i change the rope seal to the neopreme type, then
roll that brg,   then do
> the rods
> > >reassemble fill with oil and fill oil filter with oil  dis able
ignition crank it over a few
> times to ensure oil is pumped into the brgs then i fire it up and let it
warm up. listen for noises
> and if all is well i let it down and take it for a drive.
> > >remember  keep it clean. any dirt/foriegn matter can kill the brgs in a
short period.
> > >did i miss anything guys
> > >ron
> > >
> > >
> > >>Thanks!!!! Just the type of answer I was looking for. Too bad I dont
> > >>know what rolling the bearings mean, but I am assuming it means to
> > >>install the bearings with the crank dropped but the engine still in
the
> > >>car??? (am i right lol) But thanks again, maybe I wont have to by a
new
> > >>engine after all. Im thinking the machine shop'll replace the rings,
> > >>bearings, etc for under $500...so If I can save the crank all ill have
> > >>to windup spending is the money for a rebuild kit and the machining
> > >>costs. I guess the first thing I should do is drop the crank and look
at
> > >>the bearing journals???
> > >>
> > >>paulbunyan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>77w30442@comcast.net wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>a knock is from worn bearings.the increased clearence also causes
lower oil
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>psi. i have driven  some
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>455 for a year before i pulled the engine but was easy with the gas
and others
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>blew in days.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>its a gamble. pull the pan and roll new brgs in ther provideing crank
is smooth
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>and no ridges on
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>journals
> > >>>ron
> > >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> > >>>From: "Paul White" <oldslist@netscape.net>
> > >>>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > >>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:02 PM
> > >>>Subject: Re: Engine knocking
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Im just looking to make it a reliable, quick, daily driver. Im not
> > >>>>looking to keep all the original engine numbers, etc. How hard is it
to
> > >>>>ruin a crank on a 455? Do you have to really dog it out or does it
mess
> > >>>>up as soon as you hear it knock a few times? Thats my main question.
> > >>>>paulbunyan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>jkopf@optonline.net wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>Depends, do you want to preserve the car as original, need it as a
daily
> > >>>>>driver, how important is cost, how fast do you need it done? A used
engine
> > >>>>>is probably the cheapest and fastest way to go. But you don't know
what your
> > >>>>>getting. Rebuilds start adding up fairly quickly. Rebuilding yours
will take
> > >>>>>a couple of weeks to have back on the road.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > >>>>>[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul White
> > >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM
> > >>>>>To: Oldsmobile
> > >>>>>Subject: Engine knocking
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>All,
> > >>>>>Since I havent purchased my new engine just yet, I thought id ask
the
> > >>>>>list's opinion on something. I have a bone stock 1970 Olds 98. I
heard
> > >>>>>the engine knocking form the bottom of the block, plus a little
> > >>>>>screeching noise once or twice about every 4 minutes from the
bottom as
> > >>>>>well. I drove the car for about 8 miles after I heard the knocking.
The
> > >>>>>knocking did not get any worse. As soon as I got home I pulled the
valve
> > >>>>>covers and there is no oil coming up through the pushrods. Im
thinking I
> > >>>>>spun a bearing or something to that effect.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Now, Im trying to figure out should I just buy a new engine orrrrr
> > >>>>>should I pull the old engine and take it to a machine shop to get
fixed.
> > >>>>>Now money is definately a problem here so I am hoping i can save
this
> > >>>>>engine. My question is...does anyone think this engine is worth
taking
> > >>>>>to the shop to see if it can get saved or should I just count on
having
> > >>>>>to trash it. It ran fine after it started knocking, just the
knocking
> > >>>>>noise and no oil through the pushrods. It wasnt pinging or
anything. I
> > >>>>>will be doing all this engine pulling in the street so if its
probably
> > >>>>>trashed i wouldnt try taking the engine out and taking it to the
machine
> > >>>>>shop, id just buy a new one. The shop does pretty good work. One of
my
> > >>>>>neighbors had his 67 Stang 302 rebuilt for  $500 (he took all his
parts
> > >>>>>and the engine up there still assembled) and he hasnt had any
trouble yet.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>paulbunyan
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:41:00 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: RE: Low RPM, Max Torque 455

At 11:21 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote:
[snip]
>         As you can see, the engine liked the smaller carb and intake valves
>BIG TIME.  I was real surprised, and it taught me a lot just swapping out
>parts, that bigger is not always better.
>         The engine had great torque for a small block, and the 4-speed
>tranny helped too, especially with the creeper low 1st gear.
>
>Man I miss that truck!

Steve,

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I figured the J-heads would be the hot 
ticket in this application.

And thanks to Milton, too; I'm going to be dropping it in as-is, with just 
a minor refreshening, so the machining will have to wait. I've never heard 
the specs for camshaft in an Industrial Olds engine; I'll be looking up the 
specs for that Crane cam.

>4) using a cam from the 455 Olds stationary industrial engine or marine
>engine would be ideal. Otherwise, use Crane's 800501 H-192/2667-2S-10 cam.
>It's basically a torque generating RV cam.
>5) use a 600 CFM Carter/Edelbrock AFB 4-barrel, electric choke.
>6) use stock 2" intake, 1 5/8" exhaust heads.

I will be using the stock Q-Jet (it's the best setup for running at the 
angles this truck will see off-road) and stock exhaust manifolds (no 
custom-fabbed headers for this low-rpm application).

These engines are surprisingly popular to swap into the full-sized Jeeps 
like my old Cherokee (basically a Wagoneer with different trim). A lot more 
power than you can affordably get from the increasingly-rare AMC 401's, and 
the 455 is not a lot larger than the AMC block.

________________________________________
Bob Barry           mailto://rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:25:23 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Low RPM, Max Torque 455

A lot more
> power than you can affordably get from the increasingly-rare AMC 401's,
and
> the 455 is not a lot larger than the AMC block.


Yes, we noticed that 30+ years ago. We had a couple of AMC racers we
sponsored from the local AMC dealership. One was the son of the dealership
owner.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4811
*********************************
