
oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, May 12 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4886



Re: Flexalite fan
Control arm bushing info websites needed
Re: Flexalite fan
RE: Flexalite fan
replacing AC condenser
RE: now its junk
Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?
RE: Name-Brand vs. Non-Name-Brand
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: replacing AC condenser
RE: Convertible top problems
RE: Flexalite fan
RE: replacing AC condenser
RE: Flexalite fan
Re: Convertible top problems
RE: Flexalite fan
RE: Flexalite fan
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: Convertible top problems
Re: Official Date of Last Olds Produced
Re: Flexalite fan
Re: Flexalite fan
Hood ornaments
Stock Fan Shroud
Re: Convertible top problems
Re: Convertible top problems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:04:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

That's a lot of amp draw. 28 amps continuous scares me. That's a lot of
continuous load on the alternator. That takes power from the engine. On the
dyno, a good clutch fan has shown near zero power loss at high RPM, because
the clutch then freewheels.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan


> Yeah... Me too however its 4" deep and for another 1/2 deep I like this:
> http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/monster-electric.html
>
>
>
>
>
> >>I like the looks of this...
>
> http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/27inch-electric.html
>
> >>Kevin
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Control arm bushing info websites needed

Hello I am going to be helping my Nephew change his
control arms bushings and ball joints soon. I recall
someone had a website on it and thought it would be
helpful to look it over first but I can't find it. 
Anyone know the link?  Thanks, Ken



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:07:39 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

I'm with Milton, I'v not found an electric fan that can keep up with a stout
v-8 in all conditions.
Although I am intreaged with the flexlites you guys posted. If they now have
a variable switch in them they will not draw full amprage except when you
are hot ideling, and not runn full bore every time it comes on.
Allen Schwartz
A&L Enterprises
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan


> > However... I still find while in heavy driving, traffic etc... @ an idle
> it
> > can get up to 220degrees ....
> > If I am driving 30 plus mph...no prob...it cools to about 190...
> >
> > I am assuming my 2500cfm is not enough airflow...
>
>
> Yes, not enough airflow. I don't think any type of electric fan
arrangement
> can draw enough air through a radiator for proper cooling at under 25 MPH
> with a V8 engine in a '60s-'70s vehicle.
>
> I believe a large fan blade on a good fan clutch inside a complete
radiator
> shroud with the fan properly spaced front-to-rear and side-to-side is the
> best cooling scheme.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:13:06 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

I have read in several places that a flex fan does not draw as much air as a typical stock clutch fan with a shroud.  

You said a couple of times that it does not cool well at idle.  Is this only at idle?  When the temp is at 220, will the engine cool down if you increase the RPMs to 1500 or so?  If not, then you have an air flow issue.  If the temp does drop, it is possible that timing or fuel mixture could be causing the over heating.

Question for the group.  I'm looking for recommendations, for or against using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to the clutch fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.   Will the electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not running.

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:16:53 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: replacing AC condenser

What is the easiest way to replace the air conditioning condenser on a 70 442 automatic?   It looks like the easiest thing would be to remove the radiator.  Removing the radiator may not be required, but it looks like it would make getting to the mounting bolts much easier.

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:22:35 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: now its junk

Not junk.  An opportunity for a project.

http://www.442.com/articles/hauler.html

     mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382


 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: John Kelsey [mailto:ribspot@pop4.net]
 > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:36 PM
 > To: toro list
 > Cc: olds list
 > Subject: now its junk
 > 
 > 
 > Hi all
 >      Well about an hour ago and for the second time in just 
 > over a week 
 > someone drove into the back of my 70GT while it was parked. 
 > I think its 
 > probably junk now and will be parting it out. If you need 
 > anything give 
 > a shout before I start puting stuff on e-bay.
 > thanks
 > John Kelsey
 > Dayton Ohio
 > 
 > 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:24:31 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone done [an intake manifold gasket] on a '96 Silhouette?

>All I can say is that I hope it works, because I can't afford
>to fix the leak the correct way. It's that simple.

Oh, okay, then you _do_ have a leak. Go ahead and try the Bar's Leak per its 
directions.

I didn't recommend you dumping it into a non-leaking cooling system, given 
the unusual black color that it turns the coolant, which would then look a 
little suspicious to any mechanic or knowledgeable car person looking over 
the car as a prospective purchase further down the road.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:52:15 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Name-Brand vs. Non-Name-Brand

Steve Harrison wrote:

[...snipping a marvelously good essay on why he buys name brands...]

>Take, for example, the line that Autozone tried to introduce a cupla
>years ago, Deutsch or whatever it was called. NOBODY... but NOBODY...
>had the vaguest idea what that stuff really was. A few would buy,
>perhaps... but the majority of us simply asked for Delco or whatever
>and if they no longer had it in stock, we went elsewhere.
>
>Now, Autozone has seemed to back off on all the Deutsch stock that
>they USED to have, and the shelves are once again carrying SOME of
>the name-brand stuff.

Ah, yes, Deutsch again. That name sounded familiar, so I sent the computer 
off on a search through the Olds postings, and look what I found. I turned 
up this from October, 2000. Excerpts from our discussion are below:

[quote]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 3:23 PM
Subject: Parts Clerk Story #682 (rather non-Olds)

[Our Trans Sport minivan was due for its emissions test.]
Checked the air filter in the garage and decided to buy a new one, and do 
some highway miles on the way to the testing station to flush out the pipes 
a little before the test, so I pulled into the local Auto Zone outlet:

ME: I'd like an AC A974C air filter please.

CLERK: (As if hearing this for the first time) A... C... Oh! I know!

(He brings up a PART NUMBER SEARCH screen on his computer and types ACA974C 
on it.)

ME: No, no, AC is the _brand_name_, A974C is the part number.

CLERK: (Baffled again) A... C...?

ME: Yeah, you know, like AC Spark Plugs? AC-Delco? (Trying hard to stay 
patient here) The General Motors original equipment brand name???

CLERK: Oh! Like AC oil filters, right? We have those!

ME: Good! Where?

CLERK: Oh, no, we don't have the air filters, just the oil filters. So they 
make air filters, too?

ME: (_Very_ patiently now) Yes, they're the original equipment suppliers to 
General Motors. They make rather a lot of stuff.

CLERK: Well, we have Deutsch air filters. They're real good!

ME: I'm sorry but I've never heard of "Deutsch" in my life.

CLERK: Hey, I can order you an AC air filter; we'll have it in a couple of 
days...?

I ended up going to Wal-Mart instead and pulling a filter off the shelf 
myself. I _hate_ it when I'm the most qualified person in the parts store.

[...]

>When I lived in Charlotte the Auto Zone used to run a special where
>you could buy 5 qts. of a decent brand oil at a good price and get
>a free Deutsch oil filter. So, they are most likely the cheapest
>available, and probably not the best.

One of the other clerks was explaining to me that Deutsch was made by 
"Deutsch Champion" or some such company down south, which he said was a 
division of Champion, and that it was Auto Zone's house brand. I wasn't much 
interested in continuing the conversation at that point, though, since I was 
way too annoyed at listening to Doofus Clerk #1 by then.

I remember that Forest City Auto Parts, at least before they were swallowed 
up by Trak Auto, gave its prospective employees a written test on auto 
knowledge. I saw it, it was no real challenge, but I think this guy would 
have flunked it...

[...]

>While "Deutsch" means "German" in German, this is not a German
>oil filter brand. I doubt that there is a German production oil
>filter that fits Olds 455s.

Probably not, though FWIW the replacement oxygen sensor for my Cutlass was 
made by Bosch.

>They sell the Deutsch brand at AutoZone here and it is a decent
>quality filter. (Almost close to a German one....)
>
>That's the only place I've ever seen them. I think they're from
>Illinois, but I'm not sure.

One of the guys at Autozone told me it was their house brand and was made in 
Virginia or someplace like that by "Deutsch-Champion" or similar (probably 
listed on the box). But this was during the same conversation I told you 
about previously, where his buddy behind the counter was telling me that 
he'd never heard of AC-Delco, so I wasn't in a mood to be taking 
recommendations from those two rocket scientists.
[end quote]

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:50:59 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

Wouldn't you need rather a better way to let the heat out of the enclosed by
the hood space where the engine - escape sits? Yet another possibility could
be not enough flow in the water circuit at low engine speeds - happened to
me with a Matra Murena - there was rubbish blocking the entrance of the rad,
so at idle the temperature was climbing but rising the engine speed was
lowering it ok...
rgds
Matt
Subject: Flexalite fan


> However... I still find while in heavy driving, traffic etc... @ an idle
it
> can get up to 220degrees ....
> If I am driving 30 plus mph...no prob...it cools to about 190...
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:20:39 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: replacing AC condenser

Mike, you will need a propane low heat type of torch. The ones you can buy
at the local hardware store. You will need this to loosen the fittings so as
not to stress the aluminum lines. I must advise you that it is against the
law to release any freon into the atmosphere. You might want to have the
system recovered safely, unless there is already a serious leak that enabled
the gas and oil to escape. If you know for sure that the condenser is bad,
(like a hole in it) if not, you also might want to have the whole system
checked first so you don't waste time and $$ to find more leaks. If the
system has been down for a long period of time and the AC belt is still
turning the compressor, it could be the seals in back of the compressor. It
would my best advice, with the info you gave to have it checked for leaks
first. Have fun.
My .02 cents, Pat Swanton.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: replacing AC condenser


> What is the easiest way to replace the air conditioning condenser on a 70
442 automatic?   It looks like the easiest thing would be to remove the
radiator.  Removing the radiator may not be required, but it looks like it
would make getting to the mounting bolts much easier.
>
>     mike
>
> Mike Schlottman
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> Society of Petroleum Engineers
> 222 Palisades Creek Drive
> Richardson, TX 75083
> 972-952-9382
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:15:34 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Convertible top problems

> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:29:37 -0400
> From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
> Subject: Convertible top problems

snip

> I've gotten a suggestion from Bruce to replace the cables, 
> which I imagine has something to do with the laborious attempts 
> to move this scissor top.
> I'm guessing that, like the steering cable on my outboard 
> runabout, the cable probably corrodes inside so the square flex 
> shaft ceases to spin like it should.  

snip

> Scott
> 71 442 Convertible
> 75 Delta 88 NON-convertible

No, Scott, they are not the same. There is no outer sleeve and an 
inner moving cable like you're thinking. The cables on the convertible 
top are a length of cable that has a spring on the end. It is anchored 
at one end, slipped through a long loop (a tube sort of) in the side 
edge of the top fabric, then anchored at the other end. Its purpose is 
to provide tension from the front edge of the top to the back edge (above 
the windows) so it does not flap in the breeze. As long as the cables are 
not broken there shouldn't be a problem. AS was pointed out already, 
lubricating the hinge points may help. Another issue may be with the 
alignment of the various top frame sections, but I really don't have 
any experience with that - yet.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:27:27 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

I investigated this a couple weeks ago. All is clear...no debri or
blockage... Also while holding rpms higher in neutral while stopped did not
help and in fact heated it up more.
Thnx though
:) 

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Tour Op & Travel
Agency Trade 2000
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:51 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

Wouldn't you need rather a better way to let the heat out of the enclosed by
the hood space where the engine - escape sits? Yet another possibility could
be not enough flow in the water circuit at low engine speeds - happened to
me with a Matra Murena - there was rubbish blocking the entrance of the rad,
so at idle the temperature was climbing but rising the engine speed was
lowering it ok...
rgds
Matt
Subject: Flexalite fan


> However... I still find while in heavy driving, traffic etc... @ an 
> idle
it
> can get up to 220degrees ....
> If I am driving 30 plus mph...no prob...it cools to about 190...
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:30:27 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: replacing AC condenser

The system does not have any leaks, any more.  The condenser is being replaced because of a restriction that is causing the system to not cool properly.  The fittings are loose.  I have had all the fittings off recently.  I found a shop that rebuilt my hoses for me and now all my leaks  are gone.  I just need to replace the condenser.

As far as having fun I hope this is the end of the fun.   I should have listened 2 years ago when everyone suggested replacing the condenser when converting to R-134a.

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382


 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: swanny [mailto:swannys78@adelphia.net]
 > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:21 AM
 > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 > Subject: Re: replacing AC condenser
 > 
 > 
 > Mike, you will need a propane low heat type of torch. The 
 > ones you can buy
 > at the local hardware store. You will need this to loosen 
 > the fittings so as
 > not to stress the aluminum lines. I must advise you that it 
 > is against the
 > law to release any freon into the atmosphere. You might want 
 > to have the
 > system recovered safely, unless there is already a serious 
 > leak that enabled
 > the gas and oil to escape. If you know for sure that the 
 > condenser is bad,
 > (like a hole in it) if not, you also might want to have the 
 > whole system
 > checked first so you don't waste time and $$ to find more 
 > leaks. If the
 > system has been down for a long period of time and the AC 
 > belt is still
 > turning the compressor, it could be the seals in back of the 
 > compressor. It
 > would my best advice, with the info you gave to have it 
 > checked for leaks
 > first. Have fun.
 > My .02 cents, Pat Swanton.
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
 > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
 > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:16 AM
 > Subject: replacing AC condenser
 > 
 > 
 > > What is the easiest way to replace the air conditioning 
 > condenser on a 70
 > 442 automatic?   It looks like the easiest thing would be to 
 > remove the
 > radiator.  Removing the radiator may not be required, but it 
 > looks like it
 > would make getting to the mounting bolts much easier.
 > >
 > >     mike
 > >
 > > Mike Schlottman
 > > Sr. Systems Administrator
 > > Society of Petroleum Engineers
 > > 222 Palisades Creek Drive
 > > Richardson, TX 75083
 > > 972-952-9382
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:44:15 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

Do you have your fan wired to run all the time or is it thermostatically switched?  If it is on a thermostat, are you sure it is running when you are over heating?  I suspect it is running but if you are not sure, it is worth checking.

Now that you have ruled everything out but the fan, here is a page I came across where a guy talks about replacing a clutch fan in an RX7 with an electric fan.  He recommends a minimum of 2500 CFM for that engine. http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efanmyth.htm   If you assume he knows what he is talking about, I would suspect you need to be in the 3500 CFM range.  I have never seen anyone replace the stock fan with an electric in a car with a big olds engine.  I would hope someone here has done it successfully and be able to tell you what they used.

     Good Luck
     mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:42:38 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

> > 75 Delta 88 NON-convertible
>Its purpose is
> to provide tension from the front edge of the top to the back edge (above
> the windows) so it does not flap in the breeze. As long as the cables are
> not broken there shouldn't be a problem. AS was pointed out already,
> lubricating the hinge points may help. Another issue may be with the
> alignment of the various top frame sections, but I really don't have
> any experience with that - yet.

- -------------------

Ken is correct when talking about a conventional hydraulic top like that on
his '71 Cutlass or my '69 98.  The car in question here is a '75 Delta 88.
Like all of the '71-'76 B and E body convertibles, it uses the "scissor" top
mechanism.  There are no hydraulics.  The motor acts on the cables via a
pulley to raise and lower the top.  I'd check the cables carefully and lube
all of the pivot points.  You may need to replace the cables, but I kind of
doubt it given the low mileage if the car was stored in a dry environment.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:05:10 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

I think I simply do not have enough airflow.
The 3 pass forced alluminum radiator is what I believe has helped me get
closer to my cooling needs.

So...btw....

I now have 2 flex-a-lite fans I will be putting on *b*y soon.
The model 220 which is in my car now and slightly used and a new black magic
without mounting accessories.
I am looking for $100 each but will take $75 from someone on list.


Oh yeah... They are thermostatically controlled but definitely ARE running
as I notice the draw of juice .


I would also consider a trade for both my fans xchange for one of the 2
other models I sent in links earlier. 

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Mike Schlottman
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:44 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

Do you have your fan wired to run all the time or is it thermostatically
switched?  If it is on a thermostat, are you sure it is running when you are
over heating?  I suspect it is running but if you are not sure, it is worth
checking.

Now that you have ruled everything out but the fan, here is a page I came
across where a guy talks about replacing a clutch fan in an RX7 with an
electric fan.  He recommends a minimum of 2500 CFM for that engine.
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efanmyth.htm   If you assume he knows what he
is talking about, I would suspect you need to be in the 3500 CFM range.  I
have never seen anyone replace the stock fan with an electric in a car with
a big olds engine.  I would hope someone here has done it successfully and
be able to tell you what they used.

     Good Luck
     mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:03:51 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Flexalite fan

At Wednesday, 12 May 2004, you wrote:
>I have never seen anyone replace the stock fan with an 
>electric in a car with a big olds engine.  I would hope 
>someone here has done it successfully and be able to tell 
>you what they used.

Here's a page containing quite a bit of experiences of big Olds engines 
in A/G-bodies and their owners who tried electric fans:
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/OldsCooling/Issues.htm

The bottom line is that it's been difficult for most to get adequate 
cooling using electric fans, and most have gone back to the stock 
clutch fan setup.

I got a real kick a cupla weeks ago when a few folks here at work 
drove their "antiques" in for the day; it was sunny and the temp 
was the highest of the year at around 84 degrees. One guy has a '69 
Skylark with B*ick 455, mostly stock but with some aftermarket electric 
fan. He had it idling when I wandered up to see what it looked like 
and noticed the electric fan. I mentioned to him that I'd heard a 
LOT of folks have difficulty with those things, keeping their engines 
cool in stop n' go traffic in particular. At road speed, things are 
usually OK due to the increased air flow at speed. He was ADAMANT!!!! 
;o\  that electrics were the ONLY!!!!!  ========8-O  way to go on 
those older cars: he'd tried a series of aftermarket fans and could 
NEVER get adequate cooling. I asked him what he meant by "aftermarket" 
and he said flex-type fans... the skinny things intended only for 
race cars and the like.  No wonder he can't keep his engine cool.
.  ;o\

Later that day, I left work and hopped on the local highway to go 
home when lo and behold, there was the Skylark owner parked underneath 
a bridge on the side of the road, hood raised. Pulling over to help,
I noticed a little cloud of steam wisping out of the open engine 
bay...  ;o))))  Turns out that not only didn't this guy believe in 
the original, OEM cooling system: he also didn't believe in antifreeze.
He was running only water and it'd boiled over  ;o((((((((

Some people are simply astounding...

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:30:39 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

Hmmmm... toughe problem!
Is the heat captured under the hood without a possibility to escape to the
outside? Is the fan taking the hot air from inside and "recirculating" it
through the rad when the car is stopped? Does it happen ( overheat ) with
the hood open?
I'm so used to the fact that my 74 CS NEVER overheats! Well, it does
overheat with no water or with heads blowing through some cracks.... but
these are exeptions to the rule.
I have a stock rad, no shroud, 10:1 CR 355ci 350HP with a flex fan 19" or
the stock 4 wing fixed fan and I can sit in a traffic jam for an hour at 40
degrees Celcius with 180-190 F engine temperature. Just the termostat
cycling close - open.
good luck
Matt
74CS
81CS
468 getting ready...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:38:54 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

> Question for the group.  I'm looking for recommendations, for or against
using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to the
clutch fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.
Will the electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not running.


Yes, I believe the crossectional area of the electric fan assembly will
block at least some air flow, which could cause higher temperatures when the
fan is off. The trick will be to get the electric fan to increase air flow
over the amount the fan assembly blocks. Also, the irregular shape of the
assembly could cause turbulence, which will also interfere with air flow.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:47:48 -0400
From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

Thanks Ken for the tip, but as Fred stated, we're talking different kinds of
cables here for different kinds of top mechanisms.  I used a half a can of
spray lithium grease on everything that moves and I am getting some action
now.  When half way up or down, everything is pulling together to move the
top per design -- I think.  But the system really strains when the entire
weight of the frame needs to move.  It will not go up on its own and has
lots of trouble getting started going down, especially on the driver's side.
With the cables disconnected from the motor's gearbox, the motor hums nicely
in both directions.  So now I'm thinking the cables or the other gear boxes
they connect to at the main pivot point of the frame (just below the rear
quarter windows) are the problem.  The motor is hot as hell now, so I have
to stop playing for a while.  The mechanics of this thing seem fairly
straight forward, so if not cables I'm at a loss.  But what the heck could
go wrong with the cables?

Please keep talking...

Thanks again,
Scott
71 42 Convertible
75 Delta 88 SEMI-convertible


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems


> > > 75 Delta 88 NON-convertible
> >Its purpose is
> > to provide tension from the front edge of the top to the back edge
(above
> > the windows) so it does not flap in the breeze. As long as the cables
are
> > not broken there shouldn't be a problem. AS was pointed out already,
> > lubricating the hinge points may help. Another issue may be with the
> > alignment of the various top frame sections, but I really don't have
> > any experience with that - yet.
>
> -------------------
>
> Ken is correct when talking about a conventional hydraulic top like that
on
> his '71 Cutlass or my '69 98.  The car in question here is a '75 Delta 88.
> Like all of the '71-'76 B and E body convertibles, it uses the "scissor"
top
> mechanism.  There are no hydraulics.  The motor acts on the cables via a
> pulley to raise and lower the top.  I'd check the cables carefully and
lube
> all of the pivot points.  You may need to replace the cables, but I kind
of
> doubt it given the low mileage if the car was stored in a dry environment.
>
> Regards,
> Fred
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:48:27 EDT
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Official Date of Last Olds Produced

- -------------------------------1084387707
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send me a copy of  the issue where the last last olds was produced

jeff ...................

- -------------------------------1084387707
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>send me a copy of&nbsp; the issue where the last last olds was produced=
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>jeff ...................</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1084387707--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:56:26 -0400
From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

As I also have been told by many that the stock clutch fan and shroud is the
best way to go, I need to install that setup in my 71 442.  The clutch and
the shroud are in the Y1 catalog.  Do these things just bolt in, or would I
need to replace the fan and the top filler panel I have as well?
Thanks
Scott
71 442
75 Delta 88
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan


> > Question for the group.  I'm looking for recommendations, for or against
> using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to the
> clutch fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.
> Will the electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not running.
>
>
> Yes, I believe the crossectional area of the electric fan assembly will
> block at least some air flow, which could cause higher temperatures when
the
> fan is off. The trick will be to get the electric fan to increase air flow
> over the amount the fan assembly blocks. Also, the irregular shape of the
> assembly could cause turbulence, which will also interfere with air flow.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:03:01 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Flexalite fan

In a message dated 5/12/04 9:17:17 AM Central Daylight Time, mschlott@spe.org 
writes:
- -- Question for the group.  I'm looking for recommendations, for or against 
using an electric fan in front of the AC condenser, in addition to the clutch 
fan behind the radiator, to aid in cooling and air conditioning.   Will the 
electric fan significantly block airflow when it is not running. --

Mike/List,

I once owned a 1979 Starfire that came factory-equipped with the 305 Brand C 
engine and A/C.  Since these cars (in my opinion) were woefully inadequate 
when it came to radiator capacity they factory-equipped the car with a small 
electric fan in front of the A/C condenser that came on when the A/C was switched 
on.  It's probably no more than 12" in diameter.

I also had cooling "issues" with the V-6's in the 2 1980 Starfires here.  
What I found out was the factory fitted 2-row radiators in these cars when a 3 or 
4-row model was more likely what was needed.  After installing a brand-new 
3-row radiator the cooling issues were over!  Recently I installed a Black Magic 
electric fan to replace the factory clutch fan when I found out the stock 
clutch for this particular car was no longer available (really long shaft from 
the pulley mount area to the fan mount area) and the one on the car showed signs 
of leaking.  It's performed just fine, but I don't have a big V-8 in this car 
- -- yet.......

Something to look into, whether you're running an electric fan or 
engine-driven fan: you need to be sure as much of the air coming in the front of the car 
(through the grille and bumper openings) is forced _through_ the radiator.  
The factory had flexible rubber pieces, the plastic lower valence and 
weatherstripping-like material around the front of the radiator opening that did just 
that.  As Milton mentioned, a properly sized and placed shroud on an 
engine-driven fan is essential, the sealing of the opening to the radiator is just as 
important.  Kevin W. can back me up on the fact that first-generation RX-7's 
overheat easily when their lower cover in the radiator/engine area is left off, 
I'm sure our Oldsmobiles are no different.

So I don't think an electric fan in front of the radiator would be any 
hindrance.  If you want to just operate it when you turn on the A/C you could tap 
into the power wire to the compressor clutch and install one of Chris Witt's 
relays to power the fan.  I haven't researched everything regarding the 1979 
Starfire electric fan but I'd bet it was on some sort of relay set to operate like 
this.

Hope this helps, Take Care!
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:09:04 -0500
From: JulieM.Johnson@state.sd.us
Subject: Hood ornaments

Hello!  Are any of you aware of a source for antique Oldsmobile hood
ornaments?  Thanks!  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: Stock Fan Shroud

- --- vze210y3 <vze210y3@verizon.net> wrote:
> As I also have been told by many that the stock
> clutch fan and shroud is the
> best way to go, I need to install that setup in my
> 71 442.  The clutch and
> the shroud are in the Y1 catalog.  Do these things
> just bolt in, or would I
> need to replace the fan and the top filler panel I
> have as well?
> Thanks
> Scott
> 71 442
> 75 Delta 88

*************************
Scott, the factory shroud cars used a different
radiator top piece. It tilts the radiator a little
farther forward than the non ac top plate, plus has
the 2 extra holes needed to mount the shroud.

Also, there are little tabs welded to the bottom of
the core support to hold in the bottom of the shroud.

I do have a car where the previous owner retrofitted a
shroud. They drilled 2 holes in the top plate and used
wire to hold the bottom part of the shroud. The holes
look like crap becuase they ended up in a section of
the top plate halfway over a section that has a raised
'bump', so it looks obviously cheesy.

Actually there are 2 different top plates for shroud
usage, one for 2 or 3 core radiators and one for the 4
core radiators. The 4 core had wider tanks, hence the
need for a different top piece. The lower saddles in
the core support are different for a 4 core also.
These  are spot welded in place. I assume they could
be bent outwards at the ends to accept the 4 core
tanks, but the right way would be to find saddles off
another car, and then rivet or weld them in place of
the originals.








=====
John Pajak

http://jspajak.tripod.com


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:27:08 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

In light of Fred recent post, disrgard my earlier one..

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:18:59 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: Convertible top problems

...The top binds and twists and really pushes the motor to its limits.  Rather
than
burn out the motor, I figured I'd go to the experts...

****************************************************************

Well, I'm not an expert, but if the top is twisting, I would suspect it is
lifting unevenly.  Could be a bad lift cylinder or that the system needs to be
bled, the later seems more likely as the system has been dissasembled.  It is
not to diificult to bleed, find someone with a CSM.

I think your system use tranny fluid, but my '65 uses brake fluid, the two
should never be mixed.

Also, if your hydrualic lift lines are clear, you can look in the trunk and see
air bubbles moving them when the pump is operated.  If there are only a few
bubbles, I would not worry about it.

I also agree with the other listers to lube up the frame, and not worry about
the cables unless they are broken.

I had my whole top frame off and back, which I would not recommend, and I have
to get over my mental block to do the myriad of adjustments to get everything to
align properly.

Steve K.

Steve K.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4886
*********************************
