
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, March 22 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4826



1958 website/58 owners list
W/Zs on $bay ...
Re: Looking for neighbors
Re: Looking for neighbors
Re: Lead additive/Non hardened seats
Re: Looking for neighbors
Re: 65 442 Question
Re: Lead additive/Non hardened seats
Looking For Interior Parts -- 75/80 Starfire
65 head light switch wireing
lead additive
Re: 65 442 Question
Seeks 4V carb 1965
[none]
Typical GM confusion from Type F person
Re: lead additive
quadrabog help
Re: quadrabog help
Wheel bearing races - replace?
RE: quadrabog help
Re: quadrabog help
Fw: thoughts on rear gears
RE: quadrabog help
Re: quadrabog help
J&S Machine was Re: W-31 heads - COMPLETE!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:47:48 -0500
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net (Randy Hermsen)
Subject: 1958 website/58 owners list

Hello
Got this in the mail yesterday,,,,kewl pics.
Any other 58 owners out there?
Randy H.



Hi,
 
I found your site on the internet. How is the restauration going ?
 
I just started a new Olds 58 website
www.oldsmobile1958.com
 
If you have time please visit my page and the forum.
 
I am making a list of all the existing 58 Oldsmobiles.
Can I ad yours to the list ? If yes can you tell me your hometown and state in the US ?
 
Best regards,
 
Dennis
dennis@oldsmobile1958.com


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:22:13 -0500
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: W/Zs on $bay ...

Hey List,

        I just put a set of W/Zs on $bay.
Very nice originals - no pits - common cracks
in deviders. All tabs intact.

The General       patton442@verizon.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:01:53 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: Looking for neighbors

- -------------------------------1079913713
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
swannys78@adelphia.net writes:


> In a message dated 3/20/2004 9:16:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> goodfoot@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> I just moved to Atlanta from Boston, does anybody on this list happen to
> be local.
> Just curious
> I am in Rumford RI just outside Providence, about 40 mi from Boston. I
have a
> warehouse full of Olds parts, what year are you into
>
> Everett    OCA# 1961     1961 Starfire
   I read the message backwards, I thought you moved to Boston, should read 
things better. O Well



Everett

- -------------------------------1079913713
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, swannys7=
8@adelphia.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial>&gt; In a message dated 3/20/2004 9:16=
:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>&gt; goodfoot@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR>&gt;=
<BR>&gt; I just moved to Atlanta from Boston, does anybody on this list happ=
en to<BR>&gt; be local.<BR>&gt; Just curious<BR>&gt; I am in Rumford RI just=
 outside Providence, about 40 mi from Boston. I<BR>have a<BR>&gt; warehouse=20=
full of Olds parts, what year are you into<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Everett&nbsp; &nb=
sp; OCA# 1961&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; I read the message backwards, I thought you moved to Bosto=
n, should read things better. O Well</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1079913713--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:03:38 EST
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: Looking for neighbors

- -------------------------------1079913818
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
swannys78@adelphia.net writes:
should have scrolled down to this message....
I moved from North Smithfield RI 2 years ago. You probably are familiar with
Woonsocket. Do you have any '78 Cutlass parts? I have to come down soon to
get my other '78.
  I have a 2 door 79 Supreme a great parts car. Have a lot of misc NOS pieces

Everett    OCA# 1061   1961 Starfire

- -------------------------------1079913818
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, swannys7=
8@adelphia.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>should have scrolled down to this message....<=
BR>I moved from North Smithfield RI 2 years ago. You probably are familiar w=
ith<BR>Woonsocket. Do you have any '78 Cutlass parts? I have to come down so=
on to<BR>get my other '78.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; I have a 2 door 79 Supreme a great parts car. Have a lot of misc=
 NOS pieces</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Everett&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OCA# 1061&nbsp;&nbsp; 1961 Starfire</DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1079913818--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:45:07 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: Lead additive/Non hardened seats

At 03:20 AM 03/21/2004 -0500, Randy wrote:
>Wonder how well my valves are going to hold up for how long?
>I dont tow...but she is WOT  most times :)

I have HEARD . .  but this is all secondhand information . . that unless
you're doing heavy towing, even with a lot of hard driving, lead additive
isn't needed.

One person who told me this worked in a machine shop, and said he hadn't
seen a case of valve recession, even in vehicles that had seen significant
WOT abuse.

I have also heard, again, secondhand, that most lead additive is pretty
much kerosene plus a little something that each company can call their own.

I personally have no experience with this.  My only soft-valve car was the
1970 Chrysler Newport I had.  When I had the gunk baked out of the heads,
the guy said my valves were fine and that I shouldn't bother with hardened
valves and seats.  Of course, I only drove the car around 2-3k miles before
selling it, but I tended to drive that thing with a bit of a heavy foot.


I don't know the chemistry nor the physics behind all this, I'm only
re-stating what I'd heard from others in the past.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:47:09 -0500
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for neighbors

Does it have a complete dash? Preferably red, with gauge package. I am
interested in the whole dash, plus gauge package, (tach, oil, water temp,
etc.) If so how much and would I have to take it out or are you selling the
whole car?
Thanks
Pat.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <S61starfir@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for neighbors


> In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> swannys78@adelphia.net writes:
> should have scrolled down to this message....
> I moved from North Smithfield RI 2 years ago. You probably are familiar
with
> Woonsocket. Do you have any '78 Cutlass parts? I have to come down soon to
> get my other '78.
>   I have a 2 door 79 Supreme a great parts car. Have a lot of misc NOS
pieces
>
> Everett    OCA# 1061   1961 Starfire
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:55:36 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 65 442 Question

One of the List members referred to the Ford 3-speed in an Olds A-body
again. I don't recollect any Ford transmission installed at the factory in
any GM passenger car from my work in the speed shop in the first half of the
'70s. In the Hurst online catalog at
http://mrgasket.com/pdf/hurst2001manual.pdf , the heavy duty fully
sychronized 3-speed for all GM A-bodies is a Saginaw, exactly what I
remember. The Hurst transmission I.D. chart at
http://mrgasket.com/pdf/hurst2001transid.pdf clearly shows what a Saginaw HD
3-speed looks like. My 1985 Hurst catalog agrees exactly with the 2004
online catalog.

Would somebody mind explaining what's going on? Hurst shows nothing for any
Ford transmission in a GM passenger car. Therefore, a Hurst shifter for a
Ford transmission in an Olds 442 doesn't make any sense, even though factory
Hurst shifters were not the same nor as strong as aftermarket Hurst
shifters. The Saginaw HD *was* the 3-speed of choice in the '70s for those
who wanted to run one in their GM A-body. The Saginaw 3-speed was built like
a tank. There is a Muncie 3-speed that's not as strong, but is fully
synchronized, and a Chevy 3-speed in which first gear is not synchronized.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:14:58 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Lead additive/Non hardened seats

Second hand info can be like gossip and old wives tales. Definitely not what
one wants to stake their money on. Does the sender of the second hand info
really care about the future of your car's engine, or might he have a vested
interest in seeing the engine fail?

Well, I've had one '76 350 Impala that ate multiple intake valves. I have
one Dodge van 318 that has eaten multiple exhaust valves and has been
sitting for 3 years last December because it can't pass emissions (1900 PPM
HC on the left side exhaust pipe with all 4 left side exhaust valves
recessed and leaking like a sieve). And finally, one '64 330 Cutlass with
multiple intakes leaking and popping back through the carb. I know the
damage is all from unleaded fuel, because of the history and circumstances
of the vehicles.

If one wants to play poker with Murphy and his family, then don't use a lead
substitute fuel additive. I won't play poker. I've been burned too many
times before. I use a lead substitute religiously in the two '65s and use 4
grams tetra-ethyl lead per gallon racing fuel, mixed with premium unleaded,
in Thunder Lizard.

I won't play unleaded fuel roulette with my engines.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "King V" <king_v@mindless.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lead additive/Non hardened seats


> At 03:20 AM 03/21/2004 -0500, Randy wrote:
> >Wonder how well my valves are going to hold up for how long?
> >I dont tow...but she is WOT most times :)
>
> I have HEARD . .  but this is all secondhand information . . that unless
> you're doing heavy towing, even with a lot of hard driving, lead additive
> isn't needed.
>
> One person who told me this worked in a machine shop, and said he hadn't
> seen a case of valve recession, even in vehicles that had seen significant
> WOT abuse.
>
> I have also heard, again, secondhand, that most lead additive is pretty
> much kerosene plus a little something that each company can call their
own.
>
> I personally have no experience with this.  My only soft-valve car was the
> 1970 Chrysler Newport I had.  When I had the gunk baked out of the heads,
> the guy said my valves were fine and that I shouldn't bother with hardened
> valves and seats.  Of course, I only drove the car around 2-3k miles
before
> selling it, but I tended to drive that thing with a bit of a heavy foot.
>
>
> I don't know the chemistry nor the physics behind all this, I'm only
> re-stating what I'd heard from others in the past.
>
>
> - Joe Vahabzadeh
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:17:41 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Looking For Interior Parts -- 75/80 Starfire

Listmembers,

As the title suggests I'm in the need of some plastic parts for the interior 
of the Red Bullet.  The South Carolina sun, along with regular wear and tear 
really did a number on some of the parts -- A-pillar covers are really needed 
right now, but others will be needed eventually.

The parts I need would be the same for any of the H-Body hatchbacks: Monza, 
Sunbird, Skyhawk and Starfire.  The years would be from 1975 to 1980 and white 
would work best.

After being off the road for over a year the car's about ready to hit the 
road again.  I'll document everything I've done in that time to the car on a web 
page addition soon, complete with pictures.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas (until 4/16 at the earliest)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:26:55 +0000
From: 77w30442@comcast.net
Subject: 65 head light switch wireing

i need pin locations and color codes along with the ckt it feeds
the switch is being used in a 1950,s volvo
thanks ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:48:22 -0500
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: lead additive

Hi All
    In response to (and without trying to start an argument) Someone said
a machine shop guy told him that he had never seen valve seat damage 
from running unleaded fuel in an older engine. Until I sold my business 
and retired I had an old (1949) Ford 8N tractor If you want to see valve 
seat damage from unleaded fuel go to any old tractor shop and ask them 
what happens when unleaded fuel is used in older engines. I faithfully 
add lead to my 70 and my 73 won't start either one without CD-2 in the 
tank. Since it is concentrated and uses one ounce per 10 gallons of gas 
I usually buy gas in 20 gallon increments. No guessing as to how much to 
add and the bottle has a one ounce measure built in. I've heard the 
argument many times that it is not necessary that needing lead is a myth
well I believe it is necessary and pulling heads is not all that much fun
Best of everything
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:51:33 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 65 442 Question

Think you could not include the entire digest next time, please?

krw
On Mar 21, 2004, at 1:31 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:27:33 -0800
> From: "Albert Penello" <albert@albertpenello.com>
> Subject: Re: 65 442 Question
>
> Well, I was looking through a 1965 Dealer Prices options, and came 
> across
> this "OLDSMOBILE MARKETING BULLETIN" dated 2-5-65 that may answer this
> question:
>
> M14 - Heavy Duty 3-Speed Floor Shift
> - ------------------------------------
> This is a heavy duty, fully synchronized, 3-speed floor shift 
> transmission
> with Hurst shift linkage.  It gives the driver a more positive "feel" 
> when
> shifting gears.  Available starting approximately March 1 as a factory
> installed option with 4-4-2 (W29) only.  Prices on M14 are as follows
>
>
> 						Dealer	List
> 						Net Price	Price
> E.O.H
> M14 HD 3-Speed Floor Shift 		$30.40	$40.00	$3.04
>
>
> ...So that might answer the question. If you car was built after March 
> 1st
> it was very likely optioned with a 3-speed floor shift.
>
> - ------------------------------
>
<snip of ENTIRE digest #4824>

> End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4824
> *********************************


On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:02:58 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Seeks 4V carb 1965

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:59:25 -0500
From: "Sherman Higgins" <goodfoot@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for neighbors

- - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I have a 1965 442, and I'm looking for a carburetor I think it's a 4mg
===============
Like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33550&item=2466294221&ssPageName=STRK:MESUS:IT

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by 
ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:10:12 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]

"> BTW, if you do not use a distributor body, there will not be good oil
>pressure. The distributor body is a channel for the oil."
================
Paul's name was attached to that, hoping he quoted it from somewhere. 
'Cause...

Whoever wrote that has no business working on Olds, or anything.
That shows an astonishing, appalling lack of understanding of the workings 
of the Oldsmobile V8.

It's also a damn lot of wasted effort and a ridiculously heavy and bulky 
tool to do what a 1/4" rod and a 5/16 6pt 1/4 drive socket can do as well.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:26:42 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Typical GM confusion from Type F person

From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Proper" OP Priming Tool!

Brand C engines do actually need the housing in place, from what my
"roundy-round" friends have told me.  More than one has an old distributor
they've  fashioned into an O/P primer by grinding off the teeth on the gear 
and
cutting off  the top parts, leaving a top part you chuck into the drill.
Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas (for now.......)
================
Imagine that, yet another instance of "Chevy works that way, therefore all 
GM are like that"
Recall the original stooopid quote came from an eVil member, an admitted 
Type F person, even further removed from any first-hand knowledge... that's 
how BS gets spread until it's Gospel.

I see on eBay a gasket set, Intake manifold for the Olds small block. In the 
pkg is obviously a dist'r seal. Round, flat gaskety thing. So, we have 
either 1) typical slovenly use of C type photo to show ANY part, regardless 
of brand actually sold, or 2) even gasket makers cannot grasp the concept 
that Not all GM is exactly like Ch*vy.

PS I stopped at the scrap yard last week [no kidding!], and did have 
occasion to examine a C type engine. Astonishingly enough, I saw that... it 
is true. They put the dist'r thru the intake... on the RH side [that's 
Passenger side] of the engine. On the side of the cam which is traveling 
UPwards. Therefore, the cam is continually forcing the dist gear and shaft 
upwards during operation, and a thrust washer is NECESSARY between gear and 
AL housing. Seemed like a good idea at the time? Thus, in order to make the 
thrust on the camshaft be "rearward" for that configuration, the distributor 
must be made to operate clockwise as viewed from above. That explains that 
one.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by 
ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:59 -0500
From: King V <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: lead additive

At 06:48 AM 03/22/2004 -0500, John wrote:
>Hi All
>    In response to (and without trying to start an argument) Someone said
>a machine shop guy told him that he had never seen valve seat damage 
>from running unleaded fuel in an older engine. Until I sold my business 
>and retired I had an old (1949) Ford 8N tractor If you want to see valve 
>seat damage from unleaded fuel go to any old tractor shop and ask them 
>what happens when unleaded fuel is used in older engines.

Erm, that was me . .

I, uh, did sort of neglect to mention that the machine-shop guy said that,
while he hadn't seen it happen in cars, heavy equipment such as tractors,
construction vehicles, and the like, did in fact suffer from valve
recession problems.

I probably should've mentioned that bit...  

Given the experience, in car engines, from various people on this list, I
will definitely take their advice, and should I be in posession of a car
with the lead-type heads/valves, will use the additive myself.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:51:53 -0600
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: quadrabog help

This weekend I replaced my intake manifold gaskets to correct an oil leak.  I used Mr. Gasket brand gaskets, and left the exhaust crossovers blocked.  Previously they were open.

When I took the car for a test drive, it bogged any time I floored it.   I checked the timing and set it at 10 degrees BTC.  Vacuum advance is connected to carburetor ported vacuum.  I tried advancing the timing to as far as 14 degrees and it made no difference.

Before I replaced the gaskets, the timing was somewhere around 10 deg BTC.  Throttle response was perfect.  

I removed the air cleaner so I could get at the carb.  I went for a test drive and it seemed a little better.  I adjusted the secondary butterfly valve spring wrap to be a little tighter.  This helped a lot, but it is still bogs a little when I floor it.  

I drove the car home and had to put it away, so I put the air cleaner back on and parked it.
The next day, I took it for a drive and the bog was back.  It looks like having the air cleaner on makes the bog worse.  I didn't closely inspect the air cleaner, but I know it has less than 500 miles on it, and it is the same air cleaner that I used before replacing the intake gaskets.  

I believe I have everything back the way it was before I started, but I could have missed something.  Any ideas?  


     mike

1970 442 W-30

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:06:01 -0800
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: quadrabog help

> This weekend I replaced my intake manifold gaskets to correct an oil leak.  I used Mr. Gasket brand gaskets, and left
the exhaust crossovers blocked.  Previously they were open.
>
> I believe I have everything back the way it was before I started, but I could have missed something.  Any ideas?
>

Was the choke opening all the way?

If not, it could be locking out the secondaries.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:15:25 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wheel bearing races - replace?

I purchased a set of fancy drilled-and-slotted rotors (no lectures on 
the merits/pitfalls of cross drilling or slotting, I'm well aware of 
the issues) for my tall spindle/big brake upgrade, and they came with 
bearing races installed. Should I just use those with the new bearings, 
or should I knock them out and install the races that come with the 
bearings? I've never had new rotors, so this is a first for me.

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:14:26 -0600
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: quadrabog help

 > Was the choke opening all the way?
 > 
 > If not, it could be locking out the secondaries.
 > 
 > Kevin
 > 
I forgot to mention that.  The choke was staying shut due to me blocking off the crossover.  I opened the choke all the way, so it is never holding the secondaries shut. 

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:20:06 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@providence.edu>
Subject: Re: quadrabog help

At 09:51 AM 3/22/2004, you wrote:
>This weekend I replaced my intake manifold gaskets to correct an oil 
>leak.  I used Mr. Gasket brand gaskets, and left the exhaust crossovers 
>blocked.  Previously they were open.
>
>When I took the car for a test drive, it bogged any time I floored it.   I 
>checked the timing and set it at 10 degrees BTC.  Vacuum advance is 
>connected to carburetor ported vacuum.  I tried advancing the timing to as 
>far as 14 degrees and it made no difference.
>
>Before I replaced the gaskets, the timing was somewhere around 10 deg 
>BTC.  Throttle response was perfect.
>
>I removed the air cleaner so I could get at the carb.  I went for a test 
>drive and it seemed a little better.  I adjusted the secondary butterfly 
>valve spring wrap to be a little tighter.  This helped a lot, but it is 
>still bogs a little when I floor it.
>
>I drove the car home and had to put it away, so I put the air cleaner back 
>on and parked it.
>The next day, I took it for a drive and the bog was back.  It looks like 
>having the air cleaner on makes the bog worse.  I didn't closely inspect 
>the air cleaner, but I know it has less than 500 miles on it, and it is 
>the same air cleaner that I used before replacing the intake gaskets.
>
>I believe I have everything back the way it was before I started, but I 
>could have missed something.  Any ideas?

Your intake is not being pre-heated any more. That means your intake-charge 
is cooler (denser), so you need more fuel, but also that the fuel your carb 
is dumpin in is not being vaporized as well as it was before. The two 
factors conspire to give you a lean bog on acceleration.

Slowing down the opening of the secondaries and advancing the ignition can 
only help so much; you'll probably have to richen up your accelerator-pump 
and perhaps use thinner-tipped metering rods in order to have enough fuel 
for throttle tip-in now.

_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:24:12 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: thoughts on rear gears

- --0-1767529423-1079969052=:38198
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trying again, as I didn't see any replies.
 

Greetings all,
I'm trying to determine what gears and possible rear end to run in my 
69 W-31.  Since I'm building this car to compete in Pure Stock Drag 
racing, I can run any gear ratio and either the current Type O or I can 
switch to a chevy 12 bolt.  The car is an automatic and will have a tight 
convertor (say something in the 800-1200 stall range).  I will also be 
running repro Goodyear Polyglas F70x14 tires on factory 14x6 SSII rims, 
roughly 26" tall from what I understand.  The engine will have no 
problem spinning to the 5700-5800 range.  Currently I have the factory Type 
O with 3.91 posi.  From looking at similar setups that currently run in 
Pure Stock, I need at least 4.10s.  I really would like to find some 
4.33, but lets assume I don't.  Would 4.56 (in a chevy 12 bolt) be too 
steep or would 4.10s be the best choice.  The more I think about it, the 
more I've decided to either a) run the current Type O, ONLY if I can 
find some 4.33.  b) run the chevy 12 bolt with c-clip eliminators (an
 allowed safety item) with 4.10 or 4.56.  I have a chevy 12 bolt that I 
can build but I've also got a line on one already built with 4.56 
gears.
 
Thoughts, criticisms, concerns?
 
Thanks,
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com


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<DIV>trying again, as I didn't see any replies.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Greetings all,<BR>I'm trying to determine what gears and possible rear end to run in my <BR>69 W-31.&nbsp; Since I'm building this car to compete in Pure Stock Drag <BR>racing, I can run any gear ratio and either the current Type O or I can <BR>switch to a chevy 12 bolt.&nbsp; The car is an automatic and will have a tight <BR>convertor (say something in the 800-1200 stall range).&nbsp; I will also be <BR>running repro Goodyear Polyglas F70x14 tires on factory 14x6 SSII rims, <BR>roughly 26" tall from what I understand.&nbsp; The engine will have no <BR>problem spinning to the 5700-5800 range.&nbsp; Currently I have the factory Type <BR>O with 3.91 posi.&nbsp; From looking at similar setups that currently run in <BR>Pure Stock, I need at least 4.10s.&nbsp; I really would like to find some <BR>4.33, but lets assume I don't.&nbsp; Would 4.56 (in a chevy 12 bolt) be too <BR>steep or would 4.10s be the best choice.&nbsp; The more I think about it, the <BR>more I've decided to
 either a) run the current Type O, ONLY if I can <BR>find some 4.33.&nbsp; b) run the chevy 12 bolt with c-clip eliminators (an<BR> allowed safety item) with 4.10 or 4.56.&nbsp; I have a chevy 12 bolt that I <BR>can build but I've also got a line on one already built with 4.56 <BR>gears.<BR> <BR>Thoughts, criticisms, concerns?<BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR>Chris<BR><A href="http://us.f808.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=grp442@yahoo.com&amp;YY=18918&amp;order=down&amp;sort=date&amp;pos=0">grp442@yahoo.com</A><BR></DIV><p><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html"><b>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center</a></b> - File online. File on time.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:32:52 -0600
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: quadrabog help

I had not heard this before but it makes sense.  Has anyone had experience with having to richen the secondary rods or jets after blocking the intake crossover?  I'll have to see if I have any smaller rods and give this a try.

Did I just ruin my performance by blocking the exhaust crossover ports?  I thought this would be a performance increase.

    mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382


  > Your intake is not being pre-heated any more. That means 
 > your intake-charge 
 > is cooler (denser), so you need more fuel, but also that the 
 > fuel your carb 
 > is dumpin in is not being vaporized as well as it was 
 > before. The two 
 > factors conspire to give you a lean bog on acceleration.
 > 
 > Slowing down the opening of the secondaries and advancing 
 > the ignition can 
 > only help so much; you'll probably have to richen up your 
 > accelerator-pump 
 > and perhaps use thinner-tipped metering rods in order to 
 > have enough fuel 
 > for throttle tip-in now.
 > 
 > _______________________________________
 > Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
 > http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 
 > 
 > 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:48:04 -0500
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: quadrabog help

Is the original W30 carb still there ?????
No primary rods on the 70 W30 carb .........

What Doc Bob said is dead on - you will have to adjust
and tune ................

The General

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:48:08 -0800 (PST)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: J&S Machine was Re: W-31 heads - COMPLETE!!!

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Didn't you say that Jim Lapikas of J&S Machine does head porting work 
on
Olds heads? If so, is he set in his ways on Olds heads, or is he open 
minded
and willing to do different things and not follow the crowd?

Milton Schick
- ------------------
Milton,
While I can't speak for Jim, here is what I've gathered talking to and working with him.  A phone call or email would be the ideal thing to do.  Oh, obviously he does head work on Olds only.  There is at least one other person that I know of on this list who is familiar with his work.  I've gathered Jim has really only done engines/head that the owner wanted porting and more power (who doesn't right?).  Well, after talking with him about what I wanted regarding the Pure Stock setup he had some ideas on where to make some hp gains.  I also left him sets of the rules that were needed to follow to race in the Pure Stock series.  I talked with Jim after he had a chance to go over this and I got the impression this was new territory for him, but he quickly found out what needed to be done (and the general impression I've got when talking to others about setting up a motor for Pure Stock) and that is attention to detail.  I kinda got a break pricewise on my heads in that I wasn't going for
 a full stage II because porting work is not allowed (and can actually hurt performance in a Pure Stock engine).  But I did need all new seats and guides because they were real bad.  I basically got what I would call a Stage 1.5.  I got to see some of the other heads Jim was working on including his #5 going through Stage III work that are going on his 403 in a 69 Supreme.  I know nothing compared to you and others when it comes to the intricacies of modifying an Olds cylinder head as this engine is the first time I've had any first hand experience.  Before it's always been from this list, ROP, talking with Dick Miller or sitting in on the Mondello tech seminar or talking with others who have had work done before (basically being a sponge and soaking up knowledge so I could at least understand what an engine builder was telling me when he said he wanted to do this or that), but from what I've gathered Jim said the right things and knew the tricks.  And I asked around beforehand and
 Jim came highly recommended.  So I guess the point is, yes Jim is willing to try new things as this is (most likely) the first Pure Stock type engine he's put together.  But I would really recommend calling or emailing him (I have no problem if you want to say I recommended you talk with him, Jim's a real nice guy).  I don't have Jim's website or contact info with me at the moment, but you can check out 442.com the parts for sale section as he's one of the sponsors.  His ad will have his website and his contact info.  The link I sent previously showing my cylinder heads is his picture gallery.
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com


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<DIV>Didn't you say that Jim Lapikas of J&amp;S Machine does head porting work <BR>on<BR>Olds heads? If so, is he set in his ways on Olds heads, or is he open <BR>minded<BR>and willing to do different things and not follow the crowd?<BR><BR>Milton Schick</DIV>
<DIV>------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Milton,</DIV>
<DIV>While I can't speak for Jim, here is what I've gathered talking to and working with him.&nbsp;&nbsp;A phone call or email would be the ideal thing to do.&nbsp; Oh, obviously he does head work on Olds only.&nbsp; There is at least one other person that I know of on this list who is familiar with his work.&nbsp; I've gathered Jim has really only done engines/head that the owner wanted porting and more power (who doesn't right?).&nbsp; Well, after talking with him about what I wanted regarding the Pure Stock setup he had some ideas on where to make some hp gains.&nbsp; I also left him sets of the rules that were needed to follow to race in the Pure Stock series.&nbsp; I talked with Jim after he had a chance to go over this and I got the impression this was new territory for him, but he quickly found out what needed to be done (and the general impression I've got when talking to others about setting up a motor for Pure Stock) and that is attention to detail.&nbsp; I kinda got a
 break pricewise&nbsp;on my heads in that I wasn't going for&nbsp;a full stage II because porting work is not allowed (and can actually hurt performance in a Pure Stock engine).&nbsp; But I did need all new seats and guides because they were real bad.&nbsp; I basically got what I would call a Stage 1.5.&nbsp; I got to see some of the other heads Jim was working on including his #5 going through Stage III work&nbsp;that are going on his 403 in a 69 Supreme.&nbsp; I know nothing compared to you and others when it comes to the intricacies of modifying an Olds cylinder head as this engine is the first time I've had any first hand experience.&nbsp; Before it's always been from this list, ROP,&nbsp;talking with&nbsp;Dick Miller or sitting in on the Mondello tech seminar&nbsp;or&nbsp;talking with others&nbsp;who have had work done before (basically being a sponge and soaking up knowledge so I could at least understand what an engine builder was telling me when he said he wanted to do this
 or that), but from what I've gathered Jim said the right things and&nbsp;knew the tricks.&nbsp; And I asked around beforehand and Jim came highly recommended.&nbsp; So I guess the point is, yes Jim is willing to try new things as this is (most likely) the first Pure Stock type engine he's put together.&nbsp; But I would really recommend calling or emailing him (I have no problem if you want to say I recommended you talk with him, Jim's a real nice guy).&nbsp; I don't have Jim's website or contact info with me at the moment, but you can check out 442.com the parts for sale section as he's one of the sponsors.&nbsp; His ad will have his website and his contact info.&nbsp; The link I sent previously showing my cylinder heads is his picture gallery.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A><BR></DIV><p><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4826
*********************************
