
oldsmobile-digest      Saturday, August 7 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4978



Re: Latest Ebay Scam
Re: Ride Height Question
RE: the most comfortable Oldsmobile
Re: anyone see overhauling last night
Re: anyone see overhauling last night
1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California
OT: Some Batman car sightings...
RE: Some Batman car sightings...
RE: Some Batman car sightings...
Re: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California
72 445 f/s
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
RE: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California
Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again
Re;The most comfortable Oldsmobile
timing fluctuations
Re: Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again
Re: Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again
Re: Ride Height Question
Hood Spring/Support Color
RE: timing fluctuations and why the Olds design excels
Re: engine WON'T knock
Re: Ride Height Question
engine WON'T knock
Ride Height Question
RE: timing fluctuations and why the Olds design excels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:12:48 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Latest Ebay Scam

Greg,

You can always go to http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp and file an internet
fraud complaint. It's better than nothing. When enough complaints have been
filed to make a Federal criminal case, the suspect gets an unwelcome visit.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Beaulieu" <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: "Oldsmobile" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: Latest Ebay Scam


> There have been a lot of phishing scam emails floating around lately, but
> overnight I got one (addressed not to me, but to the list owner, so I knew
> it was a scam right away) with the title of "Your account at eBay has been
> suspended". It spoofs a real ebay email address and uses several embedded
> links to legit ebay pages, but the money link takes you elsewhere and asks
> for all sorts of personal info, even bank PIN codes, which is a dead
> giveaway. But there are unsuspecting people out there, so beware. I just
> wish I could send a virtual cruise missile back at these criminals.
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>           Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:21:14 -0400
From: "73H/O OLDSRIP" <jtmwalt@netsync.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

Hi all,

Greg, It is possible they installed the coil spring  wrong, it has to sit in
a specific spot in the pocket of the control arm. Check your service manual
and you will see what I mean. If it is installed correctly, Miltons answer
is probably right on.


Joe Walters
73 H/O



- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Beaulieu" <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: "Oldsmobile" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Ride Height Question


> Here's one for the suspension gurus out there.
>
> On my '68, the front end control arm bushings were basically shot. On the
> lower arms, one of the bushings was split and falling out, so repair was
> called for. With the idea of saving some time and doing it myself, I found
> a set of NOS lower control arms complete with bushings and ball joints.
>
> I soon lost interest in the idea of doing it myself, so I recently got my
> friendly mechanic to install them. They are now installed and have solved
> several issues that I had, and I'm happy with them. Except - the front
> end of the car now rides higher than before. The shop says they will
> probably settle in over time. But I can't understand why it is riding
> higher in the first place. The arms looked identical. Can anyone offer a
> theory as to the cause and/or a cure? TIA...
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>           Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:22:33 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: the most comfortable Oldsmobile

>Hi guys, here I go with another topic... which Olds would be the most
>plushy, silent, comfy... bad roads swallowing?

Oh, that's easy: An 88/98 series from practically any year.

- -- Andy (who remembers the "loose-cushion" look... :-)

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:27:44 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: anyone see overhauling last night

OldsGuyGA@aol.com wrote:

> any one see overhauling last night they did the 68  442
No, did they drive it nicely to the shop, paint it a tasteful original 
colour, and install an awesome factory sport wheel?

Or did the show end like it did the first time it ran about a week ago?

The phrase "trying too hard" comes to mind when I see a paint job like 
that :0
- --

Cliff "Beauty is more than paint deep." Simpson & Kermit
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:40:20 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: anyone see overhauling last night

- -------------------------------1091821219
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/6/2004 3:32:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
csimpson@ucalgary.ca writes:

No, did  they drive it nicely to the shop
And blow a rad hose on the way?  Then refill with cold water while it  was 
still steaming?

paint it a tasteful original colour, 
Totally ruining the character of the car?
 

and  install an awesome factory sport wheel?
Just to top it off?
 
No, I didn't see that show either. 
BTW was anyone charged with Defamation of Character?






- -------------------------------1091821219
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/6/2004 3:32:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
csimpson@ucalgary.ca writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>No, did=20
  they drive it nicely to the shop</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>And blow a rad hose on the way?&nbsp; Then refill with cold water while=
 it=20
was still steaming?</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;paint it a tasteful original colour, </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Totally ruining the character of the car?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>and=20
  install an awesome factory sport wheel?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Just to top it off?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No, I didn't see that show either. </DIV>
<DIV>BTW was anyone charged with Defamation of Character?</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
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FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1091821219--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:46:31 -0700
From: <postmaster@biglow.iwarp.com>
Subject: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California

I'm inquiring on behalf of a (clueless!) friend about how best to dispose 
of an original owner, 1964 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser, original paint, 
always in California wagon.  The car was a family car to which the one 
emotionally attached to it recently died.  The body is virtually flawless 
as far as dings and rust go.  The paint at the least needs a good cutting 
and waxing but is also otherwise essentially unchipped and original.  The 
car was never in an accident.  The interior is well-used (restoration 
would be needed), as over the years it served as the kidmobile for the 
children of the family and their friends as they were growing up with 
lots of activities. The car hasn't been driven for a few years, really, 
as the engine is in need of at least a good thorough tune-up but is not 
broken as of its being "retired" from daily service.

The questions being pondered are how best to dispose of the car for its 
maximum value, and what is the approximate fair market value, and in what 
part of the country would the market be the best, and where would one 
best find out such information? And any other answers to questions 
unasked which you wise ones might think we should have!

Thanks

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:47:38 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: OT: Some Batman car sightings...

This is unfortunately non-Olds but I thought it of interest to this list 
anyway: They're busy filming chase scenes for the next Batman movie in and 
around the elevated train tracks here in downtown Chicago. There's been some 
footage on the news of the new Batmobile, which I haven't seen myself yet, 
but the rest of the crew has set up a staging area in the vacant lot next to 
our high-rise office building. (The Batmobile may have been under a rather 
large white tent that they'd set up, but that's gone now.) In among the 
usual film-crew trucks and trailers are some movie vehicles, including 
several Gotham Police Department squad cars.

For the record, they're F*rd Crown Victorias, with some very thorough 
police-type paint jobs (even including unit numbers painted on the roof) and 
large "GPD" logos and shields on the sides. Someone else in the office was 
checking them out up close and reports that they even sport Gotham City 
license plates. He was tempted to go back down there with a screwdriver and 
grab one, but we suggested not. ("Where's Ernie?" "Dunno. Last I saw of him, 
he was yelling, "I got it! I got it!" and six teamsters were chasing him 
down Wacker Drive...")

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:02:44 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Some Batman car sightings...

I presume that's upper Wacker? Lower Wacker is strictly Blues Brothers
territory. IIRC it's also where the Billy Goat Tavern is (no Coke, Pepsi).

Here's a bit of trivia for you. The original Batmobile was a modified Ford
Futura.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----

<snip>
he was yelling, "I got it! I got it!" and six teamsters were chasing him
down Wacker Drive...")

- -- Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:33:19 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Some Batman car sightings...

>I presume that's upper Wacker? Lower Wacker is strictly Blues
>Brothers territory.

Yes (and also "Code of Silence" filmed some good action down there). Our 
building's in the background of that shot where the Bluesmobile jumps over a 
State Police car and skims its Mars lights off the top.

It's a little hard to tell where they're filming at the moment, except that 
it's taking place mostly at night and at various locations around here. 
Within the past hour some teamsters loaded up one of those little golf carts 
with extra electrical cables and tootled off down the sidewalk past our 
building in the direction of North Wacker Drive, and my guess is that 
they're filming on Lower Wacker tonight.

In fact they're feeling right at home this week here in the Loop, to the 
extent that I keep seeing random bits of electrical equipment parked 
casually here and there on the sidewalk, apparently unattended: a bank of 
arc lights leaned up against a building on Wells St., a long run of 
heavy-gauge cables tucked against the curb on Washington, etc. When all us 
daily workers head home at 5:00, the movie people come out to play.

>IIRC it's also where the Billy Goat Tavern is (no Coke, Pepsi).

The original is north of the river on Lower Michigan, actually, but they do 
have a branch downtown on West Washington. I met Don Sowers there one day. 
(Hi, Don!)

>Here's a bit of trivia for you. The original Batmobile was a
>modified Ford Futura.

Ayup. Looks a lot like this, I suspect...  :-)

http://www.datalogics.com/newdlwebsite/documentation/acg/FullSize/IMG10.JPG

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:54:42 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California

Mike,

I might be interested in the car. It all depends on what condition the car
is in, options, and what the seller wants for it.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <postmaster@biglow.iwarp.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California


> I'm inquiring on behalf of a (clueless!) friend about how best to dispose
> of an original owner, 1964 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser, original paint,
> always in California wagon.  The car was a family car to which the one
> emotionally attached to it recently died.  The body is virtually flawless
> as far as dings and rust go.  The paint at the least needs a good cutting
> and waxing but is also otherwise essentially unchipped and original.  The
> car was never in an accident.  The interior is well-used (restoration
> would be needed), as over the years it served as the kidmobile for the
> children of the family and their friends as they were growing up with
> lots of activities. The car hasn't been driven for a few years, really,
> as the engine is in need of at least a good thorough tune-up but is not
> broken as of its being "retired" from daily service.
>
> The questions being pondered are how best to dispose of the car for its
> maximum value, and what is the approximate fair market value, and in what
> part of the country would the market be the best, and where would one
> best find out such information? And any other answers to questions
> unasked which you wise ones might think we should have!
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Crumley <crumleym_50@yahoo.com>
Subject: 72 445 f/s

Hello list,
I have a 72 455 out of a toronado for sale.  It is
complete minus the carb.  It needs a crank b/c someone
welded the balancer to it.  I have an extra crank that
has never been cut or turned for a rebuild that goes
with the motor.  I'm asking $275.  Crank can be
purchased seperately for $75. Must be picked up.  It's
a cast crank from a 73 455.  It's in STL and would
have to be picked up.  Act soon b/c otherwise I'm
going to strip it down to the shortblock and haul it
to the junkyard.  I just don't need this big
paperweight in my garage. (Smaller paperweights like
heads, toro oil pan and carb are ok:):). I don't even
have a car for it at the moment.  Hit me privately at
crumleym_50@yahoo.com.

Matt C.
STL, MO


	
		
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:03:42 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

Murphy's law wasn't actually written by Murphy... It was another guy with 
the same last name...  (Just goes to show, ya can't even trust Murphy!!!!)

M

At 11:20 PM 8/5/2004 -0700, Milton wrote:
>Yup, just the kind of thing that Murphy and his family loves.

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:05:08 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 1964 Vista Cruiser-Clueless in California

Mike,

Check with the Vista Cruiser group over on Yahoo.  They are a pretty active 
bunch and someone is always looking fo a Vista.  A California car is always 
popular due to the lack of rust

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:16:54 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again

Hello
I could only get the MSD wires today 8mm...tach still jumps around :(
The dwell meter still not work on neg. side of coil and neg. batt?
Dwell meter reads 15 degrees.....points are feeler gauged at .016 now that should be bigger then 15 degrees.
I read somewhere to dwell a new set of points before installing the msd with old ign. sys.
I am sure they are fine where ever they are as they are only a trigger now.
Not sure what i gonna do bouts the tach,,i will investigate some more this weekend at the track,,,prolly have to invest in a tach adapter$.
I was told to jet larger due to new ign sys.
I see stock jets as 58s in the center and 59s in the ends from old reading material.
Seems most peoples i talk with that have a J2 Have 65s in there ends as i do and 59s in the center.
I have been told nowadays gas dont show much on the plugs?
Chevron 94 octane.
My plugs are clean not much color...some brn tan almond but not as much as i would like.
I have no selection of 2 barrel jets.
The only jets i can get so far are for Qjets/Edelbrock,,,they do fit i have tried them,,,,i put a pair of 65s from the ends in the center and 74s(qjet)in the ends,,,idle stunk a bit so i took them out,,,but i bet the msd would burn it up at idle now,,,i did do my best times with the fatter jets,15.75
The 2 barrel jet has a tapered seat and the qjet has a flat seat,,,wonder if 2 barrel jets are still avail?
She sure would like the headers right now. 
Tanks agin fer any hints.
Good luck!
Rand H.
Maple Ridge B.C. 

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:12:50 -0500
From: Darryl Wright <leadfoot@wtd.net>
Subject: Re;The most comfortable Oldsmobile

My vote would go to the 1971-76 Ninety Eight, except for --maybe-- the "Bad Road" part,past a certain point,unless you put heavier duty shocks under it,and maybe a rear sway bar. Drove a gazillion miles in my 72 Ninety Eight LS 4dr,one of many reasons I liked this car,and still have it. It just eats up the road!!!  I also have heard many swear by the early Toronado,but I`ve never took a long trip in one,so that is for others to comment better upon.1977-84(85 Delta) also is a very comfy car as well,but there`s just something about a factory 455?..........                                            Darryl Wright,1972 Olds 98 (Under construction),Digesting mode (Burrrrrp!!!)
'Till Later; Darryl Wright 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 00:21:34 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: timing fluctuations

In trying to find info for Randy at the MSD website, I ran across this item.
It's for Chris W. concerning cam walk and relates to how cam walk is
prevented on an Olds, as opposed to a Chevy.

Timing Fluctuations
If your timing seems to be jumping all over the place, check the following
items:

On Chevrolet engines, if the (ignition) timing is retarding 10 - 20 degrees
inspect for cam-walk. This is especially prevalent on engines with a chrome
or stock timing chain cover that is actually bowing forward allowing the cam
to "walk".

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 00:24:45 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again

> I could only get the MSD wires today 8mm...tach still jumps around :(


Hmmmm, MSD Technical Brief: Top Ten Ignition Questions, Form #1453 blamed
your tach problem on the RFI/EMI from your solid core ignition wires.

Under the heading "General Information" on the MSD instruction sheet, it
says, "Some vehicles with factory tachometers may require a Tach Adapter to
operate with the MSD." On page 7, Tach Adapters are listed for various OEM
tachs and aftermarket tachs. What's funny, I didn't use or need one on
Thunder's former VDO tach.

You do have the tach trigger wire attached to the tach output terminal at
the end of the MSD box???


> The dwell meter still not work on neg. side of coil and neg. batt?
> Dwell meter reads 15 degrees.....points are feeler gauged at .016 now that
should be bigger then 15 degrees.
> I read somewhere to dwell a new set of points before installing the msd
with old ign. sys.
> I am sure they are fine where ever they are as they are only a trigger
now.


True, they are only a trigger. Are you sure the dwell tach isn't set for a 4
cylinder???

milton schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:48:50 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Re:wires/MSD/Dwell/tach jumps/371jets again

At Saturday, 7 August 2004, you wrote:

>> I could only get the MSD wires today 8mm...tach still jumps 
>>around :(
>
>Hmmmm, MSD Technical Brief: Top Ten Ignition Questions, Form 
>#1453 blamed your tach problem on the RFI/EMI from your solid 
>core ignition wires.
>
>Under the heading "General Information" on the MSD instruction 
>sheet, it says, "Some vehicles with factory tachometers may 
>require a Tach Adapter to operate with the MSD." On page 7, 
>Tach Adapters are listed for various OEM tachs and aftermarket 
>tachs. What's funny, I didn't use or need one on Thunder's 
>former VDO tach.

It will also depend upon the layout of the plug wires and the other 
wires to the distributor. The other wires to the distributor should 
be routed perpendicularly to the plug wires... that is, at right-
angles. This minimizes inductive current pickup into the other distributor 
wires. The tach wire should be routed as far away from the plug wires 
as possible consistent with running at right angles to them for as 
long as possible. The best scenario is for the tach wire to drop 
straight down from the distributor, hugging the block then straight 
through a hole in the firewall to the tach.

The tach "adapter" is just an electrical filter unit that filters 
out high-frequency electrical "noise" such as that generated by the 
coil's HV output. It must still pass AC (Alternating Current) because 
the distributor's signal to the tach is a pulse of electrical energy,
although at only 12 volts at max and very low current. The typical 
"Radio Noise Filter" at Radio Shack probably will not work for this 
application because it's designed to filter out all alternating current 
pulses such as from the plugs or the distributor points, because 
a radio is only supposed to get clean DC (direct current), which 
has no noise, from the electrical system.

GM had to build a stamped steel shield aroung the distributor on 
Vettes to prevent excessive electrical noise from the distributor 
getting into the radio. Randy could try wrapping the tach wire in 
aluminum foil, grounding it to the firewall at ONE POINT such as 
where it goes through the firewall. If that works, then replace the 
foil with a piece of braid... run the tach wire through the braid 
and connect one end of the braid to the firewall.

DO NOT try using one of the grounding braids that connects between 
the engine block and the firewall; when the starter is engaged, the 
current surge through those braids is so large that a very large/high 
voltage spike will be induced across teh length of the braid, which 
would be picked up by the tach and quite possibly could blow the 
tach. Any braided tach wire like this (we call it "shielded" should 
be grounded ONLY at one end; the other end of the braid doesn't connect 
to anything. Wrap tape or other insulation around the braid so it 
doesn't contact anything else. And keep it as far away from the other 
distributor wires as possible.

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 08:30:14 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

> > On my '68, the front end control arm bushings were basically shot. On the
> > lower arms, one of the bushings was split and falling out, so repair was
> > called for. With the idea of saving some time and doing it myself, I found
> > a set of NOS lower control arms complete with bushings and ball joints.
> >
> > I soon lost interest in the idea of doing it myself, so I recently got my
> > friendly mechanic to install them. They are now installed and have solved
> > several issues that I had, and I'm happy with them. Except - the front
> > end of the car now rides higher than before. The shop says they will
> > probably settle in over time. But I can't understand why it is riding
> > higher in the first place. The arms looked identical. Can anyone offer a
> > theory as to the cause and/or a cure? TIA...

One possible problem (and if it's a decent shop, I can't imagine they would 
do this) would be if the control-arm bolts were tightened when the front 
end was still up in the air. That would "fix" the inner portion of the 
bushings in place with the control-arms in a drooped condition, and create 
some torsion on the control-arms when the car is at its normal ride-height.

Those bolts should be left loose until the car is sitting at its static 
ride-height, and then tightened when the car is on its wheels.

You could try loosening the bolts/nuts and then torquing them to spec with 
the car on the ground, and see if that changes anything.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:29:59 -0500
From: "Dan Bodine" <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
Subject: Hood Spring/Support Color

Could anyone confirm the proper paint & color for OAI Hood Springs/Supports
for 1970 W31 or W30.  I've seen both light color anodized aluminum and
darker anodized gray.   Why anodized? Does anodizing make a difference and
are different springs for the A body different color&spring coefficients for
different hood weights?  I've painted mine when I restored my W31 but have
been told that the color is too light.

Thanks,

Dan Bodine
70 W31 4 speed, owned for 34 years
71 442
OCA & IVOC member

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:40:11 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: timing fluctuations and why the Olds design excels

In trying to find info for Randy at the MSD website, I ran across this item.
It's for Chris W. concerning cam walk and relates to how cam walk is
prevented on an Olds, as opposed to a Chevy.

Timing Fluctuations
If your timing seems to be jumping all over the place, check the following
items:

On Chevrolet engines, if the (ignition) timing is retarding 10 - 20 degrees
inspect for cam-walk. This is especially prevalent on engines with a chrome
or stock timing chain cover that is actually bowing forward allowing the cam
to "walk".

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com
==================
So, let me get this right... the "clever" Chevy design not only thrusts the 
distributor gear upwards against the distributor body... but thrusts the cam 
FORWARD, against that cheesy stamped 18 gage steel cover? No way...

I know the Olds design takes the distributor gear thrust on a heavy pad 
within the block, as that gear is thrust downward by action of the cam. I 
know the cam is similarly pulled rearward into the block by the action of 
the distributor/ oil pump drive gear, and its thrust is taken at the front 
of the block, by a rather large diameter thrust face on the OD of thge cam.

My careful finger-and-pen analysis of the foreign [Type C] configuration 
reveals [assuming the engine and cam turn CW as viewed from the front]:
1) In order to thrust the dist'r gear upwards, the Dist'r must be on the RH 
side [car's RH side, passenger side in the USA] of the cam
2) In order to turn the dist'r CW from above, the C type cam must pull fwd 
on the dist'r gear where they touch.
3) Therefore, the dist'r gear is pulling backward or rearward on the cam at 
that juncture.

So, if the cam is moving forward at all, there must be forces tending to 
push it forward. Forces greater than that produced by running the oil pump. 
The most likely source of such forces would be the action of lifters on the 
cam lobes- considerable force x16 of them. The lobe and lifter design to 
induce lifter rotation during use must generate fwd thrust on the cam. Sure. 
Plausible.

The Olds engine has a thick plate across the front of the cam, backed up 
with pressurized coolant, and a heavy water pump casting to boot. The Chevy 
controls fwd motion of the cam by what?

Of course, then, we get back to, why is it that of the 100's of Olds V8's I 
have dismantled, ONE or perhaps two at most have shown ANY CONTACT 
WHATSOEVER between the cam bolt/ forward motion preventer and the timing 
cover.... and that one engine was clearly due to the fact that the car hit a 
pole/tree while the engine was running, which forced the water pump impeller 
hard against the timing cover, and the timing cover hard into the cam bolt. 
Hard enough to break the block where the cam was pushed into it. Hardly 
typical running circumstances which require planning and compensation for.

Most Olds cams never touch the timing cover. Not enough to leave any 
indicaton of contact anyhow.

CBWitt

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 12:13:35 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: engine WON'T knock

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:17:22 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: engine WON'T knock

  Hey Chris,
   Yup, it's a 72 350 block, and 72 7a heads... and I know for sure she has
a steel crank.

  So... in answer to your question.... yes 1000 % sure it is a 72 350 with a
steel crank. Should I try and move the cap wire one hole to see if that
helps?
john
===================
How about first you find out what the timing IS set at, put a number on it. 
Just to be sure, you might wanna first see to it that the TDC mark reads at 
zero when the piston is really at TDC.

Then we're back to maybe the cam is a 45 degree cam for a 330, and/or 
installed a tooth off and/or machined 8' retarded. I hate guessing, that's 
why I always index a cam upon installation and document the figures.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 12:17:34 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:09:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Ride Height Question

Here's one for the suspension gurus out there.

On my '68, the front end control arm bushings were basically shot. On the
lower arms, one of the bushings was split and falling out, so repair was
called for. With the idea of saving some time and doing it myself, I found
a set of NOS lower control arms complete with bushings and ball joints.

I soon lost interest in the idea of doing it myself, so I recently got my
friendly mechanic to install them. They are now installed and have solved
several issues that I had, and I'm happy with them. Except - the front
end of the car now rides higher than before. The shop says they will
probably settle in over time. But I can't understand why it is riding
higher in the first place. The arms looked identical. Can anyone offer a
theory as to the cause and/or a cure? TIA...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
===============
Perhaps they tightened the bolts before applying the weight of the car to 
the suspension? That would add a certain amount of preload thru the 
bushings, tending to keep the suspension arms at their lowest position, and 
the car at its highest. It will also lead to loosened bolts. Ask them if 
they torqued the bolts with suspension weighted. If not, ask if they torked 
to the correct figure, or just hammered the nuts home with the brutal air 
gun until all seemed tight. "Torque specs? We don't need no steenking Torque 
Specs!"
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:43:09 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: engine WON'T knock

I have been suspecting the reason one of my 403s 
(77 Toro) is on the lazy side, is cam timing.  If I 
degree it, can you tell me where it should be?  

Bruce Roe

7 Aug 2004 "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:

> How about first you find out what the timing IS set at, put 
> a number on it.   Just to be sure, you might wanna first 
> see to it that the TDC mark reads at 
> zero when the piston is really at TDC.

> Chris Witt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:38:19 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Ride Height Question

Good advice, another reason I do my own wortk.  Bruce Roe

7 Aug 2004 "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:

> Perhaps they tightened the bolts before applying the weight 
> of the car to the suspension? That would add a certain 
> amount of preload thru the bushings

> or just hammered the nuts home with the brutal air 
> gun until all seemed tight. "Torque specs? We don't 
> need no steenking Torque Specs!"

> Chris Witt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:01:41 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: RE: timing fluctuations and why the Olds design excels

But, I think I recall reading in an article that, um, I think Dave Smith
Engineering (gotta go dig up the magazine to be sure) makes a thicker cam
button for Olds V8s because they do have a tendency to cam walk as much as
1/4 of an inch... which "plays havoc with your timing" if I recall right.

Now, I don't recall it being mentioned if this is a particular thing that
happens to Olds V8s at high RPM or low, or if RPM makes a difference or not.

I'll go see if I can find it...

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4978
*********************************
