
oldsmobile-digest      Thursday, August 5 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4976



Manifold Paint
RE: OT: AC dryer rejuvination
RE: engine knock
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
RE: Brake booster
Re: engine knock
307 to 350 swap, tripple check
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
Re: engine knock
Re: Vista Cruiser Front Suspension Questions
Re: Vista Cruiser Front Suspension Questions
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
Re: 65 "club coupe"
Re: 307 to 350 swap, tripple check
Re: 307 to 350 swap, tripple check
Re: engine knock
Re: Freeing pitman arm?
Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?
Re: Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?
Amusement: Scam the scammers: FW: Urgent........... payment due
Amusement: Scam the scammers: update
RE: more VIN swapping and cop -outs
Re: more VIN swapping and cop -outs
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
Re: Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:25:13 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Manifold Paint

I gave up on trying to get manifold paint to look good and last. It is
too hard to pull the manifolds off the 455 every couple of years to
reblast/repaint.

Now, I use JET HOT or HPC ceramic coating. Looks great, and lasts almost
forever. Worth the $$$, IMHO.

I also did the intake too....

Paul Tumolo
1970 442
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:52:58 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: OT: AC dryer rejuvination

> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:45:54 -0500
> From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: OT: AC dryer rejuvination
> 
> Apologies for the cross posting, but I know I read on one of the many 
> lists that I get something about rejuvenating an AC dryer by 
> baking the moisture out of it in an oven. I can't seem to find that 
> message in my archives, or even remember *which* list it was from.
> Any opinions on the subject? I could easily buy one, but if it's not 
> necessary...
> 
> 
> Kevin Wright                           krwright@sbcglobal.net
> Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX    

In theory it should work, since the heat will drive the moisture out of 
the desiccant. 

With that said, I should mention that I once had an AC fail because the 
bag inside the drier that holds the desiccant ruptured, and the loose 
desiccant pellets(?) ended up taking out the compressor and plugging up 
the expansion valve.

So my question would be, is it worth the risk? 
The last drier I bought from the auto parts store cost $23, if I remember 
correctly.  

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:57:39 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: engine knock

> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:56:25 -0400
> From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
> Subject: engine knock
> 
> ok gang,
>   I have a question,   I have a rebuilt 72 350 with a 330 crank and 7a
> heads.
> I asked for a RV cam, I put in a new HEI from summit, I have 
> had both big and small block olds for more years then I care to remember.. 
> this small block does not have the power that I think it should have, I 
> can advance the HEI as far as I want and can get no engine knock, I can even 
> run this on 89 oct and still no knock. This motor was rebuilt and sat for 14 
> or 15 years before I got it. I have no real way of knowing if they did 
> put the cam in that I asked for, but even with out an RV cam I would think I 
> should be able to get this motor to knock... and have more power then she 
> does...  any help would be great
> john
> 67 cutlass supreme

John,

The last rebuild on my 350 ended up with issues similar to what you describe - no 
low end power and the ability to run on low octane fuel without pinging. Turns out 
the camshaft that I installed with the dots on the timing gears aligned was over 8º 
retarded. I would really recommend you check the cam with a degree wheel and make 
sure it's installed correctly.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:15:11 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

OK, I combined posts to save space.

Matt wrote:
> The rim width should be close to the thread, to keep the 
> tire wall in a vertical position. The 245 on the 7" just 
> don't look perfect... in my opinion. One inch to the outside 
> will give a better look and a better grip,
> that is sure...

Yes, an inch wider rim would be perfect, but I don't have an inch 
wider rims. I think the sidewall looks very good on my setup, with 
the sidewall very nearly vertical. That's why I used 245-60-14s and 
not 265-50-14s. 


Milton wrote:
> As a rule of thumb, the ideal is having the tread wide 1" wider 
> than the rim width. However, 1/2" to 1 1/2" tread width wider 
> than rim width is fine, particularly with radial tires.
> 
> So, the $64 question, how wide is your tread?

I knew the answer to that at one time. The BFG site shows a 9.8" section 
width on a 7" rim, but that is not the tread width. Someone once wanted 
to know how wide the 245-60 footprint was, so I rolled through some water 
and measured the tread print width. I'll have to perform that measurement 
again and get back with the answer. 

So what is the bottom line? What will be sacrificed if the tire width 
to rim width is not a 100% perfect fit? I know if the tire is way too 
wide it will bow and wear the tread out in the center. This has not 
been the case with two sets of BFG 245-60-14s on 7" rims and any of 
the tire brands that I have used in the past in 255-60-15 on 7" rims 
(many, many sets of tires). They have all worn evenly, and appeared 
(to me) to handle well. 

So what are the drawbacks to this tire/rim "mismatch"?

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:51:33 -0400
From: "Chris Urban" <urbanch@ca.inter.net>
Subject: RE: Brake booster

Yes I've heard that as well but I was hoping some one here had been through
it or at least knew exactly what was required. I was thinking of the master
power route as well but it might be on the expensive side. Junk yard parts
are a lot more affordable! 

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Gerow, Daniel R.
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:49 PM
To: Olds List
Subject: RE: Brake booster

Hi Chris,

I have not done this yet, but am interested in it as well.  I have seen a
number of A-Bodies with power brake boosters and master cyls out of early
90s Chebby S-10s.  Not sure what was required to make said equipment fit,
but it looked damn nice with the updated booster & master.  That being said,
a few companies (Master Power Brakes being one of them: www.mpbrakes.com)
make factory style boosters in smaller form factors.  MP Brakes lists an 11"
reproduction model, 9" slimline, and 8" & 7" dual diaphragm units (to clear
tall valve covers).  These are ALL direct swaps using the factory firewall
bolts/location with no modifications necessary.  Each unit is for a specific
application (drum/drum, disc/drum, etc.) and each requires a specific amount
of available vacuum, of course.  Hopefully, one of those may work for your
application!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Urban [mailto:urbanch@ca.inter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: Oldsmobile
Subject: Brake booster


Has anyone here retrofitted a smaller brake booster to their A- body? If so
what did you have to do to make the change? Are there any direct bolt on
swaps available from say a later model vehicle?

Chris Urban 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:22:15 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: engine knock

>  I would really recommend you check the cam with a degree wheel and make 
> sure it's installed correctly.
> 

Exactly what I'd recommend.

Kevin 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:44:21 -0500
From: "Scott White" <scottwhite98@hotmail.com>
Subject: 307 to 350 swap, tripple check

O.K... I think I've got this buttoned down...

I can keep the ECM and the CCC if I don't have a cam that's too crazy.  
Easy.  TH-2004r is O.K. Transmission, just don't tow in overdrive. Oil 
cooler can't hurt. Check.

Lots of gears available. Might help. Might also cost $$. Check.

I always thought the '86 307 *had* an A-4 aluminum intake.  What years do I 
need to look for to find this beast?

Since I haven't actually *seen* this 350 yet,  It's  going to have those 
damn A.I.R. tubes, isn't it?  In a non-emissions state is there any conflict 
of drivability by removing this system?

Thanks for the help again.

On digest mode
Scott White
93 Cutlass Supreme S (POS driver)
86 Cutlass Supreme Brougham (front end hurt)
70 Cutlass Supreme  (crying tears of neglect)
55 Super 88 (Needs work. Volunteers?)

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:12:18 -0400
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

Well, the only drawback would be a certain loss of the grip during
cornering, the tire wall not working at the perfect geometry for which the
tires was constructed. OTOH, it looks like too fat tire on too small wheel,
but this is already a personal point of view. I will drive for some time
with the 7" rims, but soon I will have them cut and enlarged to 8". Like
that I keep the SSIII look, and have some more stable body and nicer ( for
my taste ) look...
rgds
Matt
> OK, I combined posts to save space.
>
> Matt wrote:
> > The rim width should be close to the thread, to keep the
> > tire wall in a vertical position. The 245 on the 7" just
> > don't look perfect... in my opinion. One inch to the outside
> > will give a better look and a better grip,
> > that is sure...
>
> Yes, an inch wider rim would be perfect, but I don't have an inch
> wider rims. I think the sidewall looks very good on my setup, with
> the sidewall very nearly vertical. That's why I used 245-60-14s and
> not 265-50-14s.
>
>
> Milton wrote:
> > As a rule of thumb, the ideal is having the tread wide 1" wider
> > than the rim width. However, 1/2" to 1 1/2" tread width wider
> > than rim width is fine, particularly with radial tires.
> >
> > So, the $64 question, how wide is your tread?
>
> I knew the answer to that at one time. The BFG site shows a 9.8" section
> width on a 7" rim, but that is not the tread width. Someone once wanted
> to know how wide the 245-60 footprint was, so I rolled through some water
> and measured the tread print width. I'll have to perform that measurement
> again and get back with the answer.
>
> So what is the bottom line? What will be sacrificed if the tire width
> to rim width is not a 100% perfect fit? I know if the tire is way too
> wide it will bow and wear the tread out in the center. This has not
> been the case with two sets of BFG 245-60-14s on 7" rims and any of
> the tire brands that I have used in the past in 255-60-15 on 7" rims
> (many, many sets of tires). They have all worn evenly, and appeared
> (to me) to handle well.
>
> So what are the drawbacks to this tire/rim "mismatch"?
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:14:29 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: engine knock

sounds like a timeing issue, i would check  chain alignment, and dist alignment
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: engine knock


> ok gang,
>   I have a question,   I have a rebuilt 72 350 with a 330 crank and 7a
> heads.
> I asked for a RV cam, I put in a new HEI from summit, I have had both big
> and small block olds for more years then I care to remember.. this small
> block does not have the power that I think it should have, I can advance the
> HEI as far as I want and can get no engine knock, I can even run this on 89
> oct and still no knock. This motor was rebuilt and sat for 14 or 15 years
> before I got it. I have no real way of knowing if they did put the cam in
> that I asked for, but even with out an RV cam I would think I should be able
> to get this motor to knock... and have more power then she does...  any help
> would be great
> john
> 67 cutlass supreme
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 00:16:26 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser Front Suspension Questions

At 06:22 PM 8/4/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have a '72 Vista Cruiser and am planning front end overhaul.  Will the 
>front end components (ball joints, control arm bushings, etc)  be the same 
>as on the Cutlass?  Also, the car is garaged about an hour from where I am 
>now.  Is there a way to tell whether I have oval or round control arm 
>bushings by the year/model/etc or do I have to physically look at them?

They are interchangeable; in fact, I have a '72 VC suspension on the front 
of my '70 Supreme.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:19:28 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser Front Suspension Questions

Wagons and Vista Cruisers normally have different control arms that other 
Cutlass models.  They use larger bushings, but the same ball joints.  I 
bent a lower control arm on my '64 F85 wagon a few years ago, and only a 
wagon arm would work.  Ran into same thing for a '70 wagon years before. 
Wagon only arm.

Joe Varley
     AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 00:10:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

> I knew the answer to that at one time. The BFG site shows a 9.8" section
> width on a 7" rim, but that is not the tread width. Someone once wanted
> to know how wide the 245-60 footprint was, so I rolled through some water
> and measured the tread print width. I'll have to perform that measurement
> again and get back with the answer.


No, all you have to do is take a tape measure and physically measure the
tread width, from half way around the curved edge. That's it.


> So what is the bottom line? What will be sacrificed if the tire width
> to rim width is not a 100% perfect fit?


It doesn't have to perfect. The one thing you can't ever have is the rim
wider than the tread width. That will prevent the sidewalls from flexing in
a corner and wreck both the car and you. Also, a tread with 2" wider than
the rim width is verboten.


> This has not
> been the case with two sets of BFG 245-60-14s


That sounds like an 8" tread width.


> the tire brands that I have used in the past in 255-60-15


And that sounds like an 8.5" tread width.


> So what are the drawbacks to this tire/rim "mismatch"?


Excessive mismatch causes poor handling.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 00:52:43 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 65 "club coupe"

> In addition to what's already been mentioned.  I'm thinking maybe the club
coupe came with a standard bench seat and the sports coupe came with
standard buckets?
> Paul


In '64 and '65, the club coupe did have a bench seat, and Cutlass sport
coupes and F-85 V6 sport coupes had bucket seats. There were no other sport
coupes. A sport coupe was either a Cutlass or a F-85 V6.

Also, I double checked and found I was wrong. All club coupes, sport coupes,
4-door sedans, and deluxe 4-door sedans had chrome and aluminum molding over
the window posts. The club coupe's main distinguishing feature was the vinyl
floor covering, no carpet.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 06:49:19 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 307 to 350 swap, tripple check

> I always thought the '86 307 *had* an A-4 aluminum intake.  What years do
I
> need to look for to find this beast?

'80 -'84 VIN Y, '83-'85 VIN 9.

> Since I haven't actually *seen* this 350 yet,  It's  going to have those
> damn A.I.R. tubes, isn't it?

Not unless it is CA spec or it originally came in a 1980 model.

> In a non-emissions state is there any conflict
> of drivability by removing this system?

No.  I'd ditch it.


Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:21:30 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 307 to 350 swap, tripple check

I always thought the '86 307 *had* an A-4 aluminum intake.  What years do I
need to look for to find this beast?
- -------------

Your intake will say A5 prominently on the casting. Pre-85 used the A4.

- -------------
Since I haven't actually *seen* this 350 yet,  It's  going to have those
damn A.I.R. tubes, isn't it?  In a non-emissions state is there any conflict
of drivability by removing this system?
- -------------

You can plug them with pipe fittings.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:50:58 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: engine knock

  thanks for all the input....  and if I have to go this far to check the
cam that's
already in there, I might as well change the cam while I am at it. I would
like some input as to what you guys think would be a good cam to install....
not looking to head to the drags with her, but would like to make sure these
Mustangs know I am there...  so if that means I need to do some head work
too, that would be okay too.
thanks again for the input
john

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:48:31 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Freeing pitman arm?

- -------------------------------1091710111
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
In a message dated 8/4/2004 6:44:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
tjosvold@polar7.com writes:


you do need a Pitman  Arm "pickle fork" remover. 




Came into this late. If you are trying to remove the steering gear (box)  
from the car, you do not need a pickle fork. Here's  how I recently did mine:
 
1) Remove the "Pinch screw" that secures the steering column to the  steering 
gear.
2) Remove the large nut securing the Pitman Arm to the steering gear  arm.
3) Place the Pitman Arm Puller over the steering gear arm and tighten. (It  
will force the Pitman arm bolt away from the arm. You will need to apply a lot  
of torque until the collar pops off the pitman arm.)
4) Remove the two hoses that connect from the steering gear to the power  
steering reservoir.
5) Remove the three bolts that connect the steering gear to the frame rail  
and your're done.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Bruce
75  Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92  Eldo

- -------------------------------1091710111
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
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face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/4/2004 6:44:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
tjosvold@polar7.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
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=3D2>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT size=3D2>you do nee=
d a Pitman=20
    Arm "pickle fork" remover. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Came into this late. If you are trying to remove the steering gear (box=
)=20
from the car, you&nbsp;<STRONG>do not need</STRONG>&nbsp;a pickle fork. Here=
's=20
how I recently did mine:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1) Remove the "Pinch screw" that secures the steering column to the=20
steering gear.</DIV>
<DIV>2) Remove the large nut securing the Pitman Arm to the steering gear=20
arm.</DIV>
<DIV>3) Place the Pitman Arm Puller over the steering gear arm and tighten.=20=
(It=20
will force the Pitman arm bolt away from the arm. You will need to apply a l=
ot=20
of&nbsp;torque until the collar pops off the pitman arm.)</DIV>
<DIV>4) Remove the two hoses that connect from the steering gear to the powe=
r=20
steering reservoir.</DIV>
<DIV>5) Remove the three bolts that connect the steering gear to the frame r=
ail=20
and your're done.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75=20
Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190 SL Conv.<BR>=
92=20
Eldo</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1091710111--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:05:01 -0600
From: eric <aksoe1@sasktel.net>
Subject: Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?

OK, I've got some questions here about a wierd Rev pattern when 
accelerating at WOT:

Car is a 1971 Cutlass, 74 455, TH2004R (built heavier).

When you punch it, it revs up to around 3600 Very quickly, then stays at 
that RPM for 1 or maybe a bit more seconds WHILE the car is still 
accelerating.  Then, the tack climbs again to around 3900 or 4000, when 
it shifts.

Is this torque slip?  Is this OK, desirable, or what should a guy do 
about it.  THe tranny has a couple thousand miles on it, so I can't see 
it being Tranny slip, or the oil would be black and I'd be 
hitch-hiking.  The torque is new as well, I believe its a stock one?

Thoughts ?

Eric Aksomitis

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:12:20 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?

At Thursday, 05 August 2004, you wrote:

>OK, I've got some questions here about a wierd Rev pattern when 
>accelerating at WOT:
>
>Car is a 1971 Cutlass, 74 455, TH2004R (built heavier).
>
>When you punch it, it revs up to around 3600 Very quickly, 
>then stays at that RPM for 1 or maybe a bit more seconds 
>WHILE the car is still accelerating.  Then, the tack climbs 
>again to around 3900 or 4000, when it shifts.

AH... a TH200-4R......

First: you need to know what torque converter you really have. There 
was a model D5 installed in GNs, 442s and MC-SS that has a stall 
speed, with the stock 307, of between 2400-2600 (can vary some).

HOWEVER... the torque of a 455 is WAY beyond what any 307 is ever 
gonna make, and so the TC is gonna show a REAL high stall speed. 
This is NOT GOOD for a stock 200-4R TC; they were never designed 
to withstand 400+ lbs-ft. during daily street use like this.

Otherwise.... Check your tach against another one, to be absolutely 
certain that when it indicates is 3600, that's what it actually is 
and isn't just 3000 or something. A stock 200-4R torque converter 
(not the D5 model) should stall well below 2000 rpm behind a stock 
307. I dunno what it'd do behind a stout 455 but could well go way 
up high to over 3000 as yours seems to be doing.

I was gonna suggest doing a power brake test but unless your 200-
4R was built with heavy duty parts to handle 400+ hp and 500+ lb-
st torque, I would NOT recommend it.

If it has been rebuilt to handle the 455, then you might try this:
1. Do a powerbrake test: hold onto the brakes for yer life, give 
it throttle until the rpm stops rising. That's the stall speed of 
your TC, AT THE TORQUE THAT YOUR ENGINE IS PRODUCING. It may not 
be the same number that the torque converter manufacturer claims;
it will vary depending upon how much torque is being applied to 
the TC. It will also vary somewhat if the TC has ballooned due to 
too much torque. In your example above, your description sounds as 
if your stall speed is somewhere between 3000 and 3600 rpm. If so 
and the TC is definitely stock, then the TC's not working right. 
You could have ballooned it already behind the 455. I WOULD NOT keep 
giving it full-throttle; the stock 200-4R TC was not designed to 
handle that kind of torque/power. Get an aftermarket model that IS 
built for that.
3. Shifting at 3900-4000 sounds a bit low but that will vary somewhat 
depending upon your tranny. It may also vary with the setting of 
the TV cable. I would expect and hope it would be more like 4500 
or just a bit higher. Go do a web search for the B*ick GN sites and 
read up on what those guys have gone through with the 200-4Rs when 
used in their 10-11 second GNs  ;o)))

>Is this torque slip?  Is this OK, desirable, or what should a 
>guy do about it.  THe tranny has a couple thousand miles on it, 
>so I can't see it being Tranny slip, or the oil would be black 
>and I'd be hitch-hiking. The torque is new as well, I believe 
>its a stock one?

Are you certain that it's not tire-slip? Some tires won't make much 
noise or smoke at all when they slip. It's likely that your engine 
is producing its max torque somewhere between 3000 and 3500. When 
you first step on the throttle, the torque converter should be limiting 
engine rpm to something lower, like no higher than maybe 2000-2500.
Once the car gets moving so the rpm rises to 3000-3500, the engine's 
now producing close to its maximum torque and that could be breaking 
the tires loose, allowing the rpm to rise to 3600. I don't really 
feel this is what's happening since you say it goes to 3600 all the 
time; I'd expect it to vary depending on road traction.

SteveH



===================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:55:14 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Amusement: Scam the scammers: FW: Urgent........... payment due

Olds List: for your amusement...


1a2b3c@keromail.com
===============
The latest address for "Ruth" who wants to buy my "parts" offa 442.com. 
Exactly WHAT "parts" has never been discussed, but "Ruth" wants them so 
badly that "she" is willing to pay $5500 for the lot, and entrust me with a 
check for $11,000 for them as well. Too bad I am a ripoff artist, and will 
be keeping that check and not sending "Ruth" anything whatsoever. Ha ha ha 
ha ha ha. Joke 'em...



payment for the parts must be in my hands by tomorrow, Friday 06August04 or
the other buyer gets dibs.
Thanks.
================
I sent the above today 8/5, to the new eddress
Since Yahoo actually took the initiative to kill "Ruth's" former eddress 
when I fwd'd a copy of the transacton to their postmaster.



Former details:
==========================================
>From: "tommy maxwell" <1a2b3c@keromail.com>
>To: rocketscience442@hotmail.com
>Subject: Urgent...........
>Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:26:50 +0800
>
>This e-mail is sent with high importance ok.
>   My name is Ruth
>
>Chris,
>
>      Pls am sorry for mailing you from this mail it's due to the problem 
>the previous e-mail box is having ok,this is your address below and your 
>check have been prepare ok,pls reply.
>      Regards,
>      Ruth.
>
>
>
>Chris Witt
>Box NCS-419
>1303 W. Millers Rd.
====================
"Box number" is for
Nigerian Check Scam - 419
That very similar scam is widely known as the "419 scam" based on the 
section of penal code it violates, I believe.

http://www.scamorama.com/

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:58:39 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Amusement: Scam the scammers: update

Olds List: for your amusement...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++



This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

       1a2b3c@keromail.com
=====================
Huh, no kidding?
Yesterday I wrote to Postmaster@keromail.com
and exposed "Ruth" again, to them.

I urged them to look into that acct and take appropriate action, such as... 
sending every one of the potential victioms mailed from that account a link 
to some scam alert sites. I even provided three easy links which a Google 
search generated. All with the EXACT SAME STORY of scam.

Score 2 for the good guys.
Chris

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:02:19 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: more VIN swapping and cop -outs

>>I can absolutely see a scenario where the outer shell of
>>a car is damaged beyond repair and a body swap is a
>>more financially and structurally sound decision than
>>fixing the damage.
>
>Do you know there was a time, many years ago, when you
>could order entire body shells through the dealership
>parts department?

This would be as good a time as any for me to butt in with my $.02.

In the Chicago Blizzard of '79, our garage collapsed on top of our 
virtually-new '78 Delta 88. The car was squished hard: firemen who crawled 
into the debris to check for gas leaks said that the bumpers were touching 
the ground. But once the debris was lifted off, the car sprang back up on 
its haunches, had no obvious damage to its hood or trunk, but did have a 
major cave-in of the roof and windshield, plus a hole punched in the top of 
the dash.

Allstate paid for a new roof and windshield, which were ordered direct from 
GM and shipped from Canada (apparently garages collapse a lot more often up 
there). This obviously required major surgery to complete, but our local 
body shop did just fine, and the car lived a long and happy life after that. 
The hole in the dash remained as a conversation starter for many years.

Given the circumstances: a high-value, nearly-new vehicle, (technically) 
repairable damage and replacement parts available, Allstate didn't really 
care _what_ parts needed replacement. That is, if the only part damaged was 
the part carrying the VIN, they would replace it and (I assume) swap the VIN 
over to the new part. Come to think of it, the dashboard was one such part 
holding a VIN, although that didn't get swapped out as part of the repair 
since its damage was confined to one spot.

You can get a real George-Washington's-axe scenario[1] going here if you 
work hard enough, and I don't think there's a clear-cut boundary beyond 
which you go from restoration to, um, fraud (especially since most cars 
carry their serial numbers in multiple locations, not just one or two, for 
security reasons). I would say that intent should be factored in: if you 
restored your beloved family-owned 442 by replacing practically everything 
on it but the dome light, it's still your 442, but if you turned a Cutlass 
into a 442 (even a mechanically correct 442) by altering its VIN 
appropriately, then you probably have some 'splainin to do.
Putting it another way, if the identity of a car (e.g. Cutlass vs. 442) is 
determined by its VIN, there's no valid reason to change the VIN unless you 
_want_ to change its identity. If it is not readily identifiable by VIN, as 
is true for some model years, then you're into the blurry area of an honor 
system regarding what you own now vs. what you started with.

- -- Andy

[1] -- "This is George Washington's axe. I've replaced the head twice and 
the handle three times, but it's still George Washington's axe."

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:32:40 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping and cop -outs

- -------------------------------1091719960
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
In a message dated 8/5/2004 11:10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
acg_o@hotmail.com writes:

I don't  think there's a clear-cut boundary beyond 
which you go from restoration  to, um, fraud 


There is. It is called INTENT, and it applies to everything we do. Not to  
get too philosophical here, but.....if what we do to our cars in the way of  
replacing, restoring, etc., to preserve, keep or sell them is  done honestly, 
then it becomes a simple matter of one's own  opinion as to what is "original" or 
not. 
If our intention is to defraud, then there is no amount of excuse or  
rationale that will make it acceptable, morally or legally.
 
Just my take from the soapbox.
 
Bruce
75  Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92  Eldo

- -------------------------------1091719960
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/5/2004 11:10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
acg_o@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>I don't=20
  think there's a clear-cut boundary beyond <BR>which you go from restoratio=
n=20
  to, um, fraud </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>There is. It is called INTENT, and it applies to everything we do. Not=20=
to=20
get too philosophical here, but.....if what we do to our cars in the way of=20
replacing, restoring, etc., to preserve, keep or sell them is=20
done&nbsp;honestly, then it becomes&nbsp;a simple&nbsp;matter of one's own=20
opinion as to what is "original" or not. </DIV>
<DIV>If our intention is&nbsp;to defraud, then there is no amount of excuse=20=
or=20
rationale that will make it acceptable, morally or legally.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Just my take from the soapbox.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75=20
Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190 SL Conv.<BR>=
92=20
Eldo</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1091719960--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:34:14 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:21:44 -0700
> From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
> Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
> 
> Kenneth,
> 
> As a rule of thumb, the ideal is having the tread wide 1" 
> wider than the rim width. However, 1/2" to 1 1/2" tread width 
> wider than rim width is fine, particularly with radial tires.
> 
> So, the $64 question, how wide is your tread?
> 
> On my '65 F-85 4-door and my not running '64 Cutlass, I have 
> 7 1/2" tread width on 6" wide 14" wheels. It works fine.
> 
> On Thunder, the fronts are 7" tread on 7" rims (the best I 
> could do to find a close enough tire to work right - I really 
> needed a bigger tire, but it wasn't available) and the rears 
> are 9" tread on 8.5" rims. But that has also worked out fine 
> with no negatives at all.
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com

Milton,

I measured one of my tires last night. The tread width is 8.25", which 
fits within the parameters you posted. 

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 09:46:23 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

> Well, the only drawback would be a certain loss of the grip during
> cornering, the tire wall not working at the perfect geometry for which the
> tires was constructed.

Most people couldn't apex a turn properly if they wanted to, therefore what's the difference. The biggest concern with
rim size in comparison to tire size (if memory serves correctly) is the tire's ability to maintain a proper bead against
the rim in order to avoid becoming unseated.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:11:09 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wierd RPM at WOT, torque slip?

> When you punch it, it revs up to around 3600 Very quickly, then stays at
> that RPM for 1 or maybe a bit more seconds WHILE the car is still
> accelerating.  Then, the tack climbs again to around 3900 or 4000, when
> it shifts.

That sounds standard for a car with a high stall converter. The converter will flash up to the stall speed and maintain
it until the drivetrain catches up in rpm. It will then accelerate normally.

What converter did you use. If it was the one from the 200R4's donor car, it is likely just flashing higher due to the
extra torque of the 455.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:55:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

> I measured one of my tires last night. The tread width is 8.25", which
> fits within the parameters you posted.


Kenneth, you're fine. I wouldn't be concerned about it.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4976
*********************************
