
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 23 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4998



Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
RE: Stroke calculations
Re: comp check
Turlock, California Car show, 65 442 body and parts, Brake kits supplier
Re: Transmission level and leaking through yoke
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: comp check, gone way OT now
FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
"GEN" Light
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
RE: buying a 4 door RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
RE: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: buying a 4 door RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
'78 Delta Build Sheet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:45:17 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> ???????  This implies the Pace Car has 11" front discs instead of
> 12"?? Or were 11" the largest until the '80s (and when did they appear)??

- ------------------------

I have never figured out how they did this.  the '77-'84 98, Custom Cruiser
and '77 - '78n 403 88 (ex pace car replica) were all 5 on 5 with 12" discs.
All other '77-'85 Delta 88 sedans and coupes were 4.75" pattern.  The pace
car replicas were 4.75" pattern.  Remember that the large intermediates were
still around in '77.  It is entirely possible that they dipped into the A
body wagon parts bin for the larger rotors.  I haven't examined a pace car
replica to determine what they did.   Brian, what came on the front of your
'77?

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:08:32 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:42 PM
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


The Pace Car does have 11" front discs.  11" discs on Oldsmobiles (perhaps
on all B-bodies?...entirely possible, as Chevys use 5x5...Buick Ralleye
wheels in a 403 car are definitely 5x5, witness the '77 LeSabre I got the
8.5" posi rear end out of, it had 12" front discs with 11" rear drums) were
only available in 4.75" bolt circle.  12" disc arrangements w/ 4.75" circle
are only possible with Camaro 1LE rotors...somebody on the list told me
about the Camaro swap, who was that...?  12" discs on Olds ('98s) have 5"
arrangement, just like the Buick I mentioned and just like 403-powered,
non-Pace Car 88s.

The Pace Car option included the alumninum hood.  Lots of regular Deltas
apparently also have alumnum hoods.  My '84 had an aluminum hood.

I do not know what a STOCK Ralleye setup in a '77 would look like...the
cruise control setup for that year is not totally contained on the stalk but
rather in a switch on the same upside-down u-shaped wood burl area above the
steering column.  There are no "dash pods" on this car - it is a single
horizontal speedo setup.  There are pictures on the web (within the Yahoo
group, "Ed's Project") of a '77 with the ralleye pack, but I doubt it's
original as a) the burl doesn't match and b) having the gagues there would
prohibit the use of the cruise module (which the car in the picture does
have in other pictures).  Putting a later Ralleye-pak u-shaped piece in a
'77 is not advisable as the wiper controls are also on the dash (to the
left, under the vent) - again, because the multi-function stalk hadn't
appeared in this line yet (in any line?).

It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise control
or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.

Information on the Pace Cars is hard to come across.  Don't believe
everything you read, there's lots of misinformation out there - but you
should definitely believe everything Fred Nissen says, as I've never seen
him be wrong about this particuar subject.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of SteveH
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:49 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


At Monday, 23 August 2004, you wrote:
>The big mechanical difference is that the pace car replicas
>were small pattern (4.75"), whereas the regular 403 88 used
>the large pattern (5") running gear like the 98. This was
>done so they could fit superstock wheels on the pace car
>replica without making a special run of the wheels with the
>5" pattern.

???????  This implies the Pace Car has 11" front discs instead of
12"?? Or were 11" the largest until the '80s (and when did they appear)??

I ran across another site last night that said the Pace Car had an
aluminum hood; but did the replicas also get that hood??

Also, were the replicas equipped with a rallye-gage setup as standard
or was that still an option as in the regular Deltas? For that year
of 1977, what would that gage option have been, the three gages installed
in the lower dash panels as was done during the '80s or gages installed
within the dash pods ala A-body? None of this was mentioned in the
other sites I found.

Thanks,
SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:58:55 -0500
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
Subject: RE: Stroke calculations

Right now it doesn't do piston speed, but I could add that easily.  Anyone
else want anything added to this?

- --
Eric Beaupre

Engineering
eServ LLC
8200 N Allen Rd
Peoria, IL 61615
ofc: 309-691-4957 X1034
fax: 309-691-4960
cel: 309-453-3895
eml: ebeaupre@eserv.biz

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Infinite Space
Systems, Inc.
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:50 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Stroke calculations


Eric,

I'd like a copy, if you would like to send it to me as an attachment via
E-mail, privately. That would be handy for evaluating different rod lengths
and how length affects piston speed.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Stroke calculations


> I'm sorry about my earlier post, I thought you wanted to know the distance
> between the top of the piston and the top of the deck at TDC.  I now read
it
> as you want to know the distance below the TDC piston height at a given
> crank angle.
>
> I have an excel sheet with the trig done for this for anyone who's
> interested, just plug in your stroke and your rod length.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Steve Harrison
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 7:02 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Stroke calculations
>
>
> At 11:46 AM 8/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >> Figure out the distance from TDC to the piston at 30* BTDC. Basically,
> set
> >> timing with a dial indicator gage.
> >
> >
> >Unfortunately, the piston changes speed, and therefore distance traveled,
> >during the complete piston stroke cycle. At TDC, there's even a short
dwell
> >time when the piston is stopped and the rod is changing direction from up
> to
> >down. So, the speed isn't constant and that makes calculating the piston
> >position at 30 BTDC very interesting to determine.
> >
> >I just looked in my copy of Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets. I didn't find
> >anything. Of course, if the engine was apart, with the short block
mounted
> >on an engine stand, it would be easy to find out. Just rotate the
harmonic
> >balancer with a timing tape to 30 BTDC and measure the distance from the
> >piston top to the block deck. But calculating it, I don't know.
>
> It would comprise simple trigonometry although unless yer Einstein, you'd
> likely have to draw the whole thing out from crankshaft to piston-top and
> block deck, and calculate the appropriate hypotenuse lengths and the like.
> Yeah, 'twud be inneresting alright. Only DaveC could come up with
something
> like this  ;o)))))))))))
>
> Boy, talk about something to think about while lying in bed, trying to get
> to sleep. Definitely better than counting sheep  :o)))))))))))
>
> SteveH
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:15:09 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: comp check

> This is why, when you're fooling around with an older engine that
> is misfiring occasionally, you're much more likely to get zapped
> when you grab or brush the spark plug wires: the non-firing plug > allows
the coil's output voltage to rise very high, enough to arc
> through deteriorate plug wire insulation.
> Notice that until the spark plug actually fires and the arc's plasma
> builds up (which is what causes the low-resistance "short circuit"),
> the coil's output voltage is still several hundreds to thousands
> of volts.


There's a funny incident to the above that happened a long time ago.

When a Vertex Magneto is placed in a distributor machine to spin up for
advance check or point setting check, a solid core spark plug wire is
attached with an alligator clip to the heavy vertical lead that comes out of
the magneto body and enters the cap. The other end of the plug wire is
attached to a spark plug that is grounded to something metal in the building
that will bleed to Earth ground. In the machine shop at the speed shop, the
Sun distributor machine was setup next to a steel vertical post that was a
floor support carrying into the foundation. A spark plug was attached to the
steel post with a very big worm gear hose clamp. A solid core plug wire
dangled off the end of the spark plug. It was there to bleed off energy from
a magneto when it was spun in the machine.

Sharky was in his late 50s - early 60s and very rich, from royalties accrued
from 3-4 industrial patents. He bought a race ready Plymouth Hemi Cuda in
the white, had it prepared, and we sponsored him. Yes, he was in his second
childhood. One day, he brought in his Ronco Vertex Magneto and asked if he
could use the distributor machine to check his advance curve. We told him,
"Yes, go ahead." A little while later, Gary called up and said I should come
down to the shop and see something very funny. Gary Kimball, who ran the
shop, could barely contain his laughter.

I walked it the shop and immediately saw the 3" diameter blue ball of
electrical energy centered on the main lead out of Sharky's magneto. He
hadn't attached the energy bleed wire. Sharky's hair was standing up on his
arms and head, and he was asking Gary what was wrong. Gary and John (my
cousin and Gary's right-hand man) were rolling on the floor in laughter. The
distributor machine had the magneto at 7500 RPM, which meant the full
100,000+ volts DC were being generated.

Oh, well. Fortunately, Sharky didn't burn out the coil in the magneto with
that overload. Vertex Magnetos have always been very tough to hurt.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:16:46 -0700
From: "John Holt sr" <johnlholtsr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Turlock, California Car show, 65 442 body and parts, Brake kits supplier

I attended a car show over the weekend and saw a 65 442 front clip (black) 
and other parts for sale, sign says 650, not sure what all it includes. I 
took a few pics so if you want me to send you pics, email me and I will send 
pics upon request. Here is the guys info : Harold 209-524-2048. There was a 
62 Starfire convertible also, but 15k was way too much, but, I have a couple 
pics of that one too I can send upon request.
Hope someone can use the info...
Also, I found someone who supplies brake (master and cylinder) rebuild kits 
out of Sacramento Ca.
I bought 4 kits all 4 wheel cylinders for my 64 Super88, for 32$.  from Paul 
Yeagley  916-988-6319.



John
64 Super88 , found in a field sitting for 18 years.. really!!

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:31:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission level and leaking through yoke

> Uppon closer inspection, it appears that the fluid is coming from the
> center of the yoke.  Is there a hole through the center of the yoke?


Yes, there's a small hole in the end to allow air to escape when the
driveshaft is installed. I think only some TH400 yokes have the hole, for
I've seen them both ways. Thunder's has the hole. The ones in my '67 Delta
88s didn't have the hole.


> Once I got the car level again the drip stopped.


Yes, on a level surface, there will be no leak. However, I pluged the hole
on Thunder's yoke with silicone.


> I checked the
> transmission fluid level with the car running and in park.  There was no
> fluid on the dipstick.


You're about 1 quart low.


> With the motor off, it registers above the full
> level.


Yes, it will. Transmission fluid can only be checked with the engine running
(converter and front pump spinning) in park or neutral, only.


> I drove the car for about an hour yesterday after cleaning the
> transmission off, and when I parked it there was not a single drip.
> The car shifts normally and does not slip in any gear.


You're still 1 quart low, according to the dipstick.


> My suspicion is that my dipstick is not installed correctly and is
> incorrectly reading low.  This is possible because I did have the
> transmision out last year and I might have not gotten the dipstick tube
> in correctly.


If it wasn't in correctly, you would have a really good leak. The bracket
near the top that is clamped by one of the bellhousing bolts helps to center
the dipstick down into the transmission case.


> When I looked at the dipstick tube it did seem like it
> was in all the way, but I may pull it out and inpect it.   Now that I
> think about it, I gave the transmission to the trany shop, complete with
> dipstick and tube installed.  It is possible but not likely that I have
> the wrong dipstick tube.


Take your fingernail and feel for the lip on the tube that bottoms on the
transmission case. If the lip is down against the case, the dipstick tube is
in.

If it was the wrong tube, chances are it wouldn't bolt up to the rear of the
block correctly or clear the firewall correctly.

It's common for a TH400 yoke that has the hole in the end to leak fluid if
the car is facing up slope on an angle greater than 10-15 degrees, like on a
slopping driveway.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:29:36 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
> you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
> multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise
control
> or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.

Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and a
rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or rather,
marveled, from the outside of the car.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:55:11 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: comp check, gone way OT now

> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:40:38 -0400
> From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: comp check
> 
> 
> >Sorry for all the questions, but I work in Failure Analysis 
> >of electronic circuits, so it's just my nature to be curious.
> 
> Eh.... me, too, but as a manufacturing injunear now  ;o(
> 
> SteveH

My condolences. I transferred to this company and worked as a manufacturing 
injunear for a couple of years before being inducted into the FA Lab. 

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:14:16 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:08 PM
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


I'm confused, but only about the source of your confusion.

To my mind, the 4.75" 11" rotors are standard fare...am interested to know
why you think "larger rotors" are a part of the Pace Car deal - they are
not.  Not aware of any way to get stock (from the factory, not talking about
retrofitting) 12" brakes on a Pace Car replica due to the presence of the
Ralleye III wheels.  Note that the actual Pace Cars at Indy did not use
Ralleye IIIs, they used a different wheel (is it a SSIV?  Can't remember
now...) that may or may not have had 5x5 pattern and thus may or may not
have had 12" brakes.

The Pace Car I own came with 11" rotors on a US (standard) size spindle.
They differ from the '84 11" rotors in spindle diameter - the '84 is a
slightly larger, metric size.  My mind is failing re: exactly what mods I
have made to it at this point, I posted it to the list but that Outbox is at
home right now - however, I know my '77 now has an '84 booster/reservoir as
well as '84 "low drag" calipers - however, I believe it still has '77
spindles and rotors.  The spindles and rotors would have to stay together as
a pair due to spindle diameter.



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Frederick Nissen
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:45 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


> ???????  This implies the Pace Car has 11" front discs instead of
> 12"?? Or were 11" the largest until the '80s (and when did they appear)??

- ------------------------

I have never figured out how they did this.  the '77-'84 98, Custom Cruiser
and '77 - '78n 403 88 (ex pace car replica) were all 5 on 5 with 12" discs.
All other '77-'85 Delta 88 sedans and coupes were 4.75" pattern.  The pace
car replicas were 4.75" pattern.  Remember that the large intermediates were
still around in '77.  It is entirely possible that they dipped into the A
body wagon parts bin for the larger rotors.  I haven't examined a pace car
replica to determine what they did.   Brian, what came on the front of your
'77?

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:14:30 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:13 PM
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


My query re: this point would be, "When did the multi-function stalk become
available?".  I don't know the answer, but if it's "1978" then that would
explain it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of RobV
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:30 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


> It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
> you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
> multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise
control
> or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.

Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and a
rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or rather,
marveled, from the outside of the car.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:05:49 -0400
From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
Subject: "GEN" Light

On a recent road trip, the GEN light in my 75 Delta 88 gradually lit up,
stayed at full intensity for 3-5 seconds, then faded out.  This repeated
every 10-15 minutes or so at highway speed.  Lights worked fine and battery
starts her right up.  I thought that when an alternate goes, it just goes.
And the belt seems fine.  Any tips (and advice on belt tightness)
appreciated.
Thanks.
Scott Parker
71 442 convertible
75 Delta 88 Royale convertible

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:18:49 -0700
From: "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

As to the turn signal lever, the multi function (with wiper/washer) started
with the 1982 model year. Olds up to and thru 1981 have a dash mounted
wiper/washer switch. At least the Cutlass and 88/98 models. I have never
owned a Omega so I can't speak from experience there.

There are also two different (functionally) cruise control stalks made from
1977 to 1981, one has the full cruise control functions on it
(on -off-resume) and one for the older models that only has the set
functions, and it is used with a separate dash mounted cruise on off switch.

David

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:13 PM
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> My query re: this point would be, "When did the multi-function stalk
become
> available?".  I don't know the answer, but if it's "1978" then that would
> explain it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of RobV
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> > It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
> > you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
> > multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise
> control
> > or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.
>
> Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and
a
> rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
> those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or
rather,
> marveled, from the outside of the car.
>
> Rob
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:45:59 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

So...with David Manly's information below, one could hypothesize that a
Holiday 88 (or rather, any '77 - '81 Delta with a Ralleye pack and cruise
control) must have had the stalk with all the cruise-control functions on it
and not the two-piece cruise arrangement which came on my Pace Car.

This implies a wider availablity of the '77-'81 Ralley-pack specific left
hand dash piece (with provision for the guage package as well as the wiper
controls) than I had previously believed existed.  Still haven't seen one in
person, though...

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of David Manly
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:19 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


As to the turn signal lever, the multi function (with wiper/washer) started
with the 1982 model year. Olds up to and thru 1981 have a dash mounted
wiper/washer switch. At least the Cutlass and 88/98 models. I have never
owned a Omega so I can't speak from experience there.

There are also two different (functionally) cruise control stalks made from
1977 to 1981, one has the full cruise control functions on it
(on -off-resume) and one for the older models that only has the set
functions, and it is used with a separate dash mounted cruise on off switch.

David

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:13 PM
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> My query re: this point would be, "When did the multi-function stalk
become
> available?".  I don't know the answer, but if it's "1978" then that would
> explain it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of RobV
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> > It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
> > you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
> > multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise
> control
> > or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.
>
> Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and
a
> rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
> those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or
rather,
> marveled, from the outside of the car.
>
> Rob
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:56:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
> I do not know what a STOCK Ralleye setup in a '77 would look like...the
> cruise control setup for that year is not totally contained on the stalk but
> rather in a switch on the same upside-down u-shaped wood burl area above the
> steering column.

I don't think this is totally correct. Going from my departed '78, the
cruise switch was on the dash, but not in the vicinity of the steering
column. It was over towards the center-right side of the dash, right of
the radio in an area that also could have switches for the rear window (on
wagons) and the rear defrost. An ergonomic disaster.

Just remembered that I still have a '78 Delta owners manual here and
checked it - what I wrote above is correct. Presumably those right-side
dash appliques came in different flavors, for no switch or some
combination of options with 1, 2, or 3 switches.  

The stalk on my '78 had a single button recessed in the end that was used
for a set/coast function once the cruise was turned on by the dash switch. 

As to the rallye pack, the manual shows a variation that had a single
"gage" on the right side of the lower dash next to the steering column.
It's a fuel economy (vacuum) gage. It also shows a different variation
that has 3 gages - a voltmeter in the lower area left of the column, and
temp and oil pressure gages to the right of the column.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:12:10 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: buying a 4 door RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

So...it would seem that the buyer of a 4-door, originally 403-powered car
would get a b*tchin' set of 5x5 12" rotors, brakes, spindles and (possibly
unique) upper and lower arms as well as a proportioning valve setup for 12"
in the front.  These could then be put on a Pace Car replica, but it would
require running 5x5 wheels - which (as I pointed out) may actually have been
the way the real Pace Cars ran anyways.

Interesting thoughts...I went out of my way to repaint SSIIIs and have
actually passed on several sets of SSIVs...have heard that the Camaro 1LE
rotor setup may not work with an SSIII anyways, which would be really,
really unfortunate...

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of
b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:46 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


So...with David Manly's information below, one could hypothesize that a
Holiday 88 (or rather, any '77 - '81 Delta with a Ralleye pack and cruise
control) must have had the stalk with all the cruise-control functions on it
and not the two-piece cruise arrangement which came on my Pace Car.

This implies a wider availablity of the '77-'81 Ralley-pack specific left
hand dash piece (with provision for the guage package as well as the wiper
controls) than I had previously believed existed.  Still haven't seen one in
person, though...

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of David Manly
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:19 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


As to the turn signal lever, the multi function (with wiper/washer) started
with the 1982 model year. Olds up to and thru 1981 have a dash mounted
wiper/washer switch. At least the Cutlass and 88/98 models. I have never
owned a Omega so I can't speak from experience there.

There are also two different (functionally) cruise control stalks made from
1977 to 1981, one has the full cruise control functions on it
(on -off-resume) and one for the older models that only has the set
functions, and it is used with a separate dash mounted cruise on off switch.

David

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ammons [mailto:bammons@oxcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:13 PM
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> My query re: this point would be, "When did the multi-function stalk
become
> available?".  I don't know the answer, but if it's "1978" then that would
> explain it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of RobV
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
>
>
> > It is possible that the ralleye setup you speak of (I know exactly what
> > you're talking about, by the way) was not availabe until a) the
> > multi-function stalk became standard or b) not available with cruise
> control
> > or c) available in some super-rare combo that I've never seen.
>
> Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and
a
> rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
> those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or
rather,
> marveled, from the outside of the car.
>
> Rob
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:19:29 -0500
From: <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

Greg -

But as you pointed out, that's a '78.

The '77 PC I have has the cruise switch (I'm sure it's the same switch that
you speak about being on the right-hand dash piece on your '78) on the
driver's side dash piece, in the same area of the 3-guage ralleye pack.

Pace Cars would have been towards the beginning of the '77 production run,
right?  Is it possible that we're discovering the part non-interchangability
that the production engineers discovered 27 years ago and slowly overcame by
a) moving the cruise switch and b) eliminating the cruise switch all
together?

Isn't this fun?  Beats the h*ll out of working...

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Greg Beaulieu
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:57 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: FW: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403


On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
> I do not know what a STOCK Ralleye setup in a '77 would look like...the
> cruise control setup for that year is not totally contained on the stalk
but
> rather in a switch on the same upside-down u-shaped wood burl area above
the
> steering column.

I don't think this is totally correct. Going from my departed '78, the
cruise switch was on the dash, but not in the vicinity of the steering
column. It was over towards the center-right side of the dash, right of
the radio in an area that also could have switches for the rear window (on
wagons) and the rear defrost. An ergonomic disaster.

Just remembered that I still have a '78 Delta owners manual here and
checked it - what I wrote above is correct. Presumably those right-side
dash appliques came in different flavors, for no switch or some
combination of options with 1, 2, or 3 switches.

The stalk on my '78 had a single button recessed in the end that was used
for a set/coast function once the cruise was turned on by the dash switch.

As to the rallye pack, the manual shows a variation that had a single
"gage" on the right side of the lower dash next to the steering column.
It's a fuel economy (vacuum) gage. It also shows a different variation
that has 3 gages - a voltmeter in the lower area left of the column, and
temp and oil pressure gages to the right of the column.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:05:57 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> Didn't the 78 Delta 88 "Holiday" model come with buckets, floor shift and
a
> rallye pack?  I have only seen one or two of them around, and I thought
> those cars had some kind of rallye pack in them.  I only looked, or
rather,
> marveled, from the outside of the car.
- --------------------

The ones you saw may well have had the gage package, but it was not included
in the "Holiday 88" option.  The "Holiday 88" option was available on the
base (L-37) Delta 88 Coupe from 1978 through 1981 and included bucket seats,
sport mirrors, sport steering wheel, painted wheel covers, and a console
with floor shift.  The seats, console and steering wheel were borrowed from
the Cutlass.  The option was available on any base Delta 88 Coupe.  I.E.,
you could order one with a V6, if so inclined.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:18:46 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> So...with David Manly's information below, one could hypothesize that a
> Holiday 88 (or rather, any '77 - '81 Delta with a Ralleye pack and cruise
> control) must have had the stalk with all the cruise-control functions on
it
> and not the two-piece cruise arrangement which came on my Pace Car.
>
> This implies a wider availablity of the '77-'81 Ralley-pack specific left
> hand dash piece (with provision for the guage package as well as the wiper
> controls) than I had previously believed existed.  Still haven't seen one
in
> person, though...

- -------------------------------
There were many variations of the RH dash that allowed mounting of the
cruise and rear defog (as well as tailgate window) switches.   I don't know
why they did this, but I suspect it was for convenience on the cars without
the gages.    If you want to add the factory gages (which were first offered
in 1978, n/a in 1977) to a car with switches in the way, they can be
relocated, but it is a bit of work and you need to find the correct RH
panels in comparable condition to the other panels in the car..

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:21:17 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: buying a 4 door RE: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> So...it would seem that the buyer of a 4-door, originally 403-powered car
> would get a b*tchin' set of 5x5 12" rotors, brakes, spindles and (possibly
> unique) upper and lower arms as well as a proportioning valve setup for
12"
> in the front.

- ------------

Or the buyer of any '77-'79 98.....

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:28:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: '78 Delta Build Sheet

Interesting... in the sleeve with the aforementioned '78 Delta owners
manual was a build sheet for the car that donated it. I remember this car,
a blue 4-door - it was in a junkyard about an hour out of town and had
been somewhat picked over, probably because it was loaded. Interestingly,
it was built in the Fairfax, Kansas plant, which also built my Intrigue.
For the Delta fanatics out there here are the specifics, verbatim (some
are obvious, others not):

VIN: 3N69K8X086425 (K code = 403)

AK1 Deluxe belts
AU3 Elect dr lock
AO1 Tinted glass
A31 Power windows
A42 6 way pwr seat
A65 Notch bk seat
A90 Elec trnk rel
B32 Frt flr mats
B33 Rear flr mats
B84 Body side mdg
B90 Wdo frm mldg
B96 Whl opg mldg
CH1 Comp 6 axl
C49 El r wdw dfog
C65 Auto air cond
C81 Rr dr jamb sw
C91 Rdg lp 1 lens
D33 Rem ctl miror
D34 Rh v/van mir
F41 Hvy duty susp
GU1 2.41 axle
G80 Ltd slp diff
G87 Ring 8.50
JL1 Cust trim pad
K15 Fuel return
K97 80 amp alt
M33 350 trans
NA2 Fed emiss sys
NK8 96 ltr tank
N30 Dlx xtrg whl
N99 Hvy duty whls
PA3 Delux whl dis
L80 403 V8 4bbl
QDR GR78x15 w/w
T46 Steel hood
U87 Cluster asm
UN9 Rdo suprs grp
UP7 Inst prov mon
U25 Lug compt lmp
U26 Under hood lp
U29 I/p ctsy lmp
U63 Deluxe radio
U76 Wndshd ant
U80 Rear Speaker
VD6 Frt bpr reinf
VD7 Rr brp reinf
Z49 Canadian equp
**24X Big 4-blue

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4998
*********************************
