
oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, June 8 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4913



Re: Convertible top dash bezel
68-72 Cutlass/442 conv top assembly for sale
Re: Interior
RE: Intriguing Day
307 to 350...
Intrigue Headlights
Re: 307 to 350...
307 to 350...
Re: 307 to 350...
Re: Intrigue Headlights
For Sale
66 Cutlass Convert HEADER BOW same as what other years?
66 TriCarb details: Throttle Return Spring hookup?
Re: 66 Cutlass Convert HEADER BOW same as what other years?
76 Toronado For Sale

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:19:50 EDT
From: S61starfir@aol.com
Subject: Re: Convertible top dash bezel

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 6/7/2004 9:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
rabrams@bellsouth.net writes:

am  looking for an original style convertible top switch bezel.  I  tried
Year One's which was a thin piece of flat stock, very different from  the
original which has a raised edge around the bezel.  Anyone either  have one
that they would be willing to sell or know where I can get  one?

Thanks,




What year an model car??

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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/7/2004 9:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
rabrams@bellsouth.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
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  looking for an original style convertible top switch bezel.&nbsp; I=20
  tried<BR>Year One's which was a thin piece of flat stock, very different f=
rom=20
  the<BR>original which has a raised edge around the bezel.&nbsp; Anyone eit=
her=20
  have one<BR>that they would be willing to sell or know where I can get=20
  one?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; What year an model car??</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: 68-72 Cutlass/442 conv top assembly for sale

- --0-1708455553-1086641453=:71936
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have a convertible top assembly for sale.  The frame is fine, but the top material is torn.  rear glass is good.  It was removed from a 70 442.  Asking $300.  Located in the southwest suburbs of Chicago.  Can be picked up at the Olds Homecoming Show in Lansing, MI on Sat the 19th.
 
Email with questions.
Thanks,
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com

		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
- --0-1708455553-1086641453=:71936
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>I have a convertible top assembly for sale.&nbsp; The&nbsp;frame is fine, but the top material is torn.&nbsp; rear glass is good.&nbsp; It was removed from a 70 442.&nbsp; Asking $300.&nbsp; Located in the southwest suburbs of Chicago.&nbsp; Can be picked up at the Olds Homecoming Show in Lansing, MI on Sat the 19th.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Email with questions.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>Friends.  Fun. <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/">Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger</a>
- --0-1708455553-1086641453=:71936--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:53:28 -0400
From: "ftfunnyfarm" <ftfunnyfarm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Interior

Pat....oh i know the feeling about a car breaking down! Had the connecting
piston rod blow on my way home from buying her about 2 yrs ago....than had
electrical problems. and she would not start at the most worse
times....LOL.....think I have that worked out.....

Good luck with the brake lines....keep me posted!

Tami

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:41:49 -0400
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: RE: Intriguing Day

I know most of this list (including me) is not that impressed with more
modern performance cars, but the SCX Achieva does very much have the
fighter/cockpit dash.

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Andrew C. Green
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:38 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: Intriguing Day
>
>
> >GM needs to learn how to make good-looking interiors again.
>
> Heck, yes. The last good sporty one they did was inside the
> '73-'77 Cutlass.
> That was a _great_ dash layout, everything angled toward you on
> two banks of
> controls, some nice indirect floodlighting as well as backlighting (and a
> really ingenious way of lighting the console shift quadrant with a single
> bulb and fibre-optic spotlight), a useful console with a nice little
> roll-top hideaway compartment, with the only glaring omission
> being lack of
> a tachometer. I solved that by installing a flush-mount digital
> unit at the
> leading edge of the console catch tray, below the roll-top cover. In the
> next generations of Cutlaii after that, they went all corporate
> and lost the
> cool cockpit-fighter personality. Sad.
>
> -- Andy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers!
http://youroffers.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 18:49:05 -0500
From: "Scott White" <scottwhite98@hotmail.com>
Subject: 307 to 350...

Hello list-

I realize they are a direct swap but, never having done this before, I have 
some questions.
The donor engine is a '77 350, I believe it is a 4bbl.  I know, it's a smog 
motor, but it's an easy 40 hp and some torque.

Should I stick with the TH-2004r or should I go with the TH-350 that is 
stuck to the end of it?  It will spend most of it's time as a driver and 
occasionally pull a trailer.

As the original car, an '86 Cutlass Supreme, came with the HD radiator (and 
towing option) will I need a 4 row radiator?  It does have A/C.

What are the pros and cons of using the '77 carb over the computerised one 
on the 307?

I have a 70 4bbl iron intake.  Would I be ahead in any way to swap this on?  
It would get rid of the EGR... this I'm guessing might cause problems with 
the computer.

Is there someone who has done a similar swap who might be kind enough to 
send me an e-mail privately detailing what needs to be done, and any of 
those tricky moments that the CSM forget to tell you about?

Lastly, are there any easy and cheap mods I might want to do while the motor 
is out of the vehicle?

Thanks for the help.

On digest mode
Scott White
04 Alero Final 500 (mom's *new* baby)
93 Cutlass Supreme S (POS driver)
86 Cutlass Supreme Brougham (Heart transplant??)
70 Cutlass Supreme  (crying tears of neglect)
55 Super 88 (Needs work. Volunteers?)

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:03:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Intrigue Headlights

Another Intrigue question... while washing & waxing the car yesterday I
noticed the headlights are not quite as "jewel-like" as they used to be.
There seems to be a film or deposit on the inside of the lenns and/or on
the reflector assembly. The headlight units themselves pop out of the car
easily, but does anyone know how easy/hard it is to remove the lenses from
the assemblies? It looks like they just snap on, but I dunno about
sealants, gaskets, hidden tricks, etc. Any assistance appreciated.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:36:58 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: 307 to 350...

At 06:49 PM 06/07/2004 -0500, Scott wrote:
>Hello list-
>
>I realize they are a direct swap but, never having done this before, I have 
>some questions.
>The donor engine is a '77 350, I believe it is a 4bbl.  I know, it's a smog 
>motor, but it's an easy 40 hp and some torque.
>

Never done it, but I know some of the theory.


>Should I stick with the TH-2004r or should I go with the TH-350 that is 
>stuck to the end of it?  It will spend most of it's time as a driver and 
>occasionally pull a trailer.

I personally would go with the 200-4R.  The thing does have some
weaknesses, but a 350 shouldn't give it too much more trouble.  An external
cooler might be recommended.  A list member has swapped a 403 in place of
the original 307 in I believe an 84 LeSabre, and stuck with the original
200-4R with 99k miles on it, and has had no problems yet.

>
>As the original car, an '86 Cutlass Supreme, came with the HD radiator (and 
>towing option) will I need a 4 row radiator?  It does have A/C.
>
I would imagine the HD radiator from the 307 would be sufficient.

Out of curiosity, does the car have a better gear ratio than the standard
2.56:1 when you get the towing package?


>What are the pros and cons of using the '77 carb over the computerised one 
>on the 307?

Not sure of the pros, but the cons are that you can't use the computer
system.  Or if you do, the check engine light will probably be on all the
time, I think.

>
>I have a 70 4bbl iron intake.  Would I be ahead in any way to swap this on?  
>It would get rid of the EGR... this I'm guessing might cause problems with 
>the computer.

The 86 has the roller-307, which has tiny ports for the heads and tiny
intake runners.  This will positively choke the 350.  Vacuum
characteristics, I'm told, are also much different when you have a roller
cam as opposed to a normal one, therefore, if you want to maintain the
computer, you should probably swap to a non-roller ECM.  I'm not sure if
you can get away with just changing the PROM and maintaining the same ECM
box though, as I haven't worked on these.  This would be from a pre-1985
307 (or pre-86 if you've got a 9-code 307 HO).

On the other hand, the intake from the earlier 307s I'm told will flow just
as good as any of the older ones from the 350, and is aluminum instead of
iron.

NOTE: If you don't have the computer, the lockup won't work on the trans.
You'd need to either get a switch to do the lockup manually, a
speed-controlled switch, or an aftermarket valve-body that will cause the
lockup to function without need of the computer.  Not having lockup engage
when you've got an overdrive trans will cause quite a bit of heat buildup
and seriously shorten transmission life.


>Lastly, are there any easy and cheap mods I might want to do while the motor 
>is out of the vehicle?

I would imagine a new timing chain would be a good bet.  Also, an
aftermarket camshaft, even an exceptionally mild one, as cam design has
improved since the 1970s.

>Thanks for the help.

Remember, I haven't done this, I just know theory!  But it at least gives
you a few quick things to think on.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:24:36 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 307 to 350...

7 Jun 2004  "Scott White" <scottwhite98@hotmail.com> writes:

> The donor engine is a '77 350, I believe it is a 4bbl.  I know, it's 
> a smog motor, but it's an easy 40 hp and some torque.

My preference is a 403, just as easy to do.  But trans and 
cooling upgrades should be done.

> Should I stick with the TH-2004r or should I go with the TH-350 
> that is stuck to the end of it?  It will spend most of it's time as 
> a driver and occasionally pull a trailer.

The THM200 might last a while, don't try towing in overdrive.  
A THM350 will have a much better outlook, the most I ever got 
out of one was 140,000.  A THM400 (switch pitch prefered) will 
run forever, but you'd need a lower differential # to optimize any 
3 speed.  

> As the original car, an '86 Cutlass Supreme, came with the HD 
> radiator (and towing option) will I need a 4 row radiator?  It 
> does have A/C.

With a fairly new radiator and 7 blade fan, the 350 should be 
fine.  Old radiators tend to lose capacity till recored.  I have put 
a 4 row in by welding 2 hold downs together to increase the 
depth 5/8", and different mounts at the bottom.  The shroud 
gets pretty close to the fan, but can be made to work.  

> What are the pros and cons of using the '77 carb over the 
> computerised one on the 307?

Kevin Wong managed to use a CCC electronic carb on a 455.  
But he also got into the computer and changed some stuff.  If
you don't know how to do that, might be better to use 77 carb/HEI

> I have a 70 4bbl iron intake.  Would I be ahead in any way to swap 
> this on?   It would get rid of the EGR... this I'm guessing might 
> cause problems with the computer.

A properly operating EGR will not hurt max power, and will allow 
more advance by reducing pinging.  I'd keep the 77 stock.

> Is there someone who has done a similar swap who might be 
> kind enough to send me an e-mail privately detailing what 
> needs to be done, and any of 
> those tricky moments that the CSM forget to tell you about?
 
> Lastly, are there any easy and cheap mods I might want to do 
> while the motor is out of the vehicle?

Put on a new timing chain (roller preferred), clean out all the 
covers, put on steel core valve cover gaskets.  Make sure the 
HEI is not badly worn at lower bearing and weights; pack 
with grease the upper bearing.  Check timing mark on 
harmonic balancer, bad rubber lets them slip.  I have 
replaced all mine with FluiDampers.  Check starter brushes.  

Bruce Roe

> Scott White

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 07:37:40 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 307 to 350...

> Should I stick with the TH-2004r or should I go with the TH-350 that is
> stuck to the end of it?  It will spend most of it's time as a driver and
> occasionally pull a trailer.

The 4 speed with overdrive and lockup would be my choice. Much better gas
mileage. You can keep the same rear gears as long as you don't cam up the
350. 307's were geared to run highway speeds around 1800 RPM.

> As the original car, an '86 Cutlass Supreme, came with the HD radiator
(and
> towing option) will I need a 4 row radiator?  It does have A/C.

Should be fine.

> What are the pros and cons of using the '77 carb over the computerised one
> on the 307?

Pros are that the CCC carb tends to be a bit small for good drivabilty on a
350. Stay with a stock cam and it'll be adequate. Cons are that the ECM
needs throttle position sensor, so if you want the computer at all you need
the electronic carb. If you decide to ditch the computer altogether you'll
need the 77 distributor too. And you'll lose TCC lockup on the tranny.

> I have a 70 4bbl iron intake.  Would I be ahead in any way to swap this
on?
> It would get rid of the EGR... this I'm guessing might cause problems with
> the computer.

Computer doesn't particularly care. You'll have to change timing to avoid
ping. My preference would be an aluminum A4 manifold from an earlier 307, so
all the ECM sensors have a place to go without tee's.

Note that you'll need to get an ECM from a pre-85 307 because the '86 'puter
would be calibrated for the roller motor's high vacuum. You might be able to
use a PROM from an 87 442 instead, I'm not sure.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:32:38 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Intrigue Headlights

> The headlight units themselves pop out of the car
> easily, but does anyone know how easy/hard it is to remove the lenses from
> the assemblies? It looks like they just snap on, but I dunno about
> sealants, gaskets, hidden tricks, etc. Any assistance appreciated.

Um, GM does not service these lamps in pieces.  You buy a whole assembly.  I
don't think it's something I'd want to be taking apart...

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 08:16:49 -0500
From: "JBS" <jbschuren@houston.rr.com>
Subject: For Sale

It's time for me to sell the cutty. I'm doing so unwillingly :-(, but I have
too many vehicles and not enough space.

1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible.
White on Blue, Texas Car, Good Driver.
The link below provides more information on the car, I'll be updating this
info for the next couple of days (more pics)
http://home.houston.rr.com/jbsnet/

Thanks
JB Schuren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:41:41 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 66 Cutlass Convert HEADER BOW same as what other years?

I have this header bow in nice condition, would rather not sell it if it 
also fits my 1968.
Ditto for the Latches and handles.

Anyone have a manual like say Mitchell's that would tell range of models and 
years that these 1966 Cutlass/442 pieces fit?

My parts manual says:

Header bow = 7615002
Latch & Handle Ams = 7590745 RH; 7590746 LH

cc directly to me per the eddress below, please, as I am slow, therefore on 
Digest mode. Or, is that the other way 'round?
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! 
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:45:38 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 66 TriCarb details: Throttle Return Spring hookup?

I can no longer search my computer for files by name :-(

Have pix, cannot locate them.

CSM and Asm. Manual are of no use in this respect

Anyone have pic or verbal description even of how the tri-carb throttle 
return spring attaches?

CC directly to me, please, as I might never see the reply on a Digest.

FINALLY got the backup lights wiring squared away, what a PITA. Never did 
find the right connector for the upper end of the wires from the trans-mtd 
switch. Used 2 individual female spade connectors instead. The correct 
connector is apparently not used on any other GM car anywhere- Just MT 
applications.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! 
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:42:11 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 66 Cutlass Convert HEADER BOW same as what other years?

Will fit all 66-67 "A" bodies .....

The General


> I have this header bow in nice condition, would rather not sell it if it
> also fits my 1968.
> Ditto for the Latches and handles.
>
> Anyone have a manual like say Mitchell's that would tell range of models
and
> years that these 1966 Cutlass/442 pieces fit?
>
> My parts manual says:
>
> Header bow = 7615002
> Latch & Handle Ams = 7590745 RH; 7590746 LH
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:25:16 -0700
From: Michael & Joanne Dekkers <dekkers@shaw.ca>
Subject: 76 Toronado For Sale

76 Toronado for sale. Original 455 motor and turbo 400 tranny.  Outside is
custom black paint with purple ghost flames (not decals).  Interior is
gold/tan and is in good shape.  Good set of rubber, well maintained, and
only 128,000 miles on it.  Current AirCare certificate (local government
emissions testing program), ready to drive away.  Pictures available on
request, please email with any questions.  Moving to townhouse, must sell.
$1800 obo.  Chilliwack, BC 1-604-795-7004.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4913
*********************************
