
oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, June 17 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4922



Who's going to Carlisle All-GM this Fri-Sun?
468 in the 81 CS...
Re: Carter Fuel Pump
RE: 468 in the 81 CS...
Front end alignment for 68 442
brakes lines: stainless vs oem
F-85, no longer my daily driver
Re: Front end alignment for 68 442
Re: 468 in the 81 CS...
RE: 455 Fuel Line
Re: 468 in the 81 CS...
RE: Brake line woes revisited.
Re: Carter Fuel Pump
Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]
Fuel pump M6109 is the ticket
Re: 468 in the 81 CS...
'70 C/S Ragtop Question
brake line rust prevention, and in general
Re: Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]
Re: 468 in the 81 CS...
Toro List?
Re: Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]
Re: Toro List?
More on Fuel Pumps

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:44:03 +0000
From: brad442@comcast.net
Subject: Who's going to Carlisle All-GM this Fri-Sun?

I'll be in the showfield at the Oldsmobile Club of America tent.  The first 50 OCA members w/ their Olds Saturday will receive a commemorative dash plaque from OCA. Also the tent is available to get out of the sun & there will be cold water available.  At 11am Saturday, Hot Wheels Drag Races for kids & adults alike w/ prizes (1st 20 kids get a free Hot Wheel).  Also Saturday night there will be an OCA Ice Cream Cruz' to the Dairy Queen in Carlisle at 221 Penrose Place, Carlisle, PA 17013-4014, across from Wal-Mart.  Feel like going down Carlisle's Main Street showing off your Olds!.  Meet at the OCA tent in the show field.  Time & map to be posted at the OCA tent & swap meet roadshow locations.  I'll get to Carlisle about 10am Friday and will be there thru the Ice Cream Cruz.  SEE YA THERE!


===================================
 ---
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 & 2001 Intrigue GLS
|/|\|  brad442@comcast.net
| | |  mywebpages.comcast.net/brad442
 ---

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:49:07 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: 468 in the 81 CS...

Hi guys,
The 468 is in, but the hood is in conflict with the air filter... anybody
has solved already this problem? I mean a 455 in 81CS originally equipped
with a 260ci? TIA!
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:55:51 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Carter Fuel Pump

sorry, I didn't post that but you are right.
Upon driving my car about 90 miles the other day, It appears I still have
problems with power loss athigher rpms though. I think I may have a problem
with ignition system.

Allen Schwartz
A&L Enterprises
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Ecker" <ecker567@earthlink.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Carter Fuel Pump


> By the way gang, I checked with Summit and the part# for the Carter fuel
> pump without the return line fitting is M6108 (the one with the return
> line is M6109.  Just thought this might help someone.  I definitely plan
> to order one myself.
>
> Michael Ecker
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:01:40 -0400
From: Mearl Francis <Mearl.Francis@TRACO.COM>
Subject: RE: 468 in the 81 CS...

Matt
  Your probably going to be looking at a Cowl Induction hood or another
raised center hood. I'm looking for one for my 86 CS. I have found some
internet links for new ones. Let me know if that is the direction you go..
Mearl

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000 [mailto:travelchile@manquehue.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:49 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 468 in the 81 CS...

Hi guys,
The 468 is in, but the hood is in conflict with the air filter... anybody
has solved already this problem? I mean a 455 in 81CS originally equipped
with a 260ci? TIA!
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:57:22 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Front end alignment for 68 442

Good Morning folks,

I would like to get an alignment for my 68 442.  Local shops do not appear
to have the specific settings going back this far and do not seem to have
the needed numbers to perform the alignment.  I have a CSM but cannot locate
the info showing the settings for alignment.  Would anyone have alignment
info, or share with me where in the CSM this info is?

Thanks!
Rob
Free Olds classifieds and Olds car registry at www.allolds.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: brakes lines: stainless vs oem

- --0-2132685393-1087481347=:82079
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If you are buying stainless lines, here is what I found.  The idea 
is never to replace them again.  But the steel fittings corrode 
onto the stainless tube, and twist the end off when you try to 
replace parts like hoses and cylinders.  My solution is to 
REQUEST stainless steel fittings (you have to ask for them).  
Be sure and ask them to write it on the order; ask if there is 
an extra charge.  Otherwise they will just pretend they didn't 
hear you.  You can check everything with a magnet; I don't 
think the one into the prop valve is avilable in stainless, but 
that one should not require service.     
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
here's what I found regarding the use of stainless lines.  This applies to cars that are restored and not driven as often as they use to be in the last 60s early 70s and maybe even now stored in a climate controlled garage.  Back in the day these vehicles were driven year round, subjected to rain, sleet and snow.  Obviously this attacked the original steel line, it corroded and put a wrench to it, snap.  When these cars are restored, they are driven on nice days, never in the snow, seldom if at all in the rain.  For this, stainless lines are overkill and not needed.  If you've got money to throw around, sure get stainless, but oem is fine.  I also found out from a well know restoration shop in Michigan (we're talking big dollar muscle car restorations) that the stainless lines don't seal as well since they are harder.  IIRC, for those that remember the article in Muscle Car Review several years back on the correct colors of a restored chassis.  They used a 66 442 to show what was
 what.  The guy who did that owns the restoration shop.
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 

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<DIV>If you are buying stainless lines, here is what I found.&nbsp; The idea <BR>is never to replace them again.&nbsp; But the steel fittings corrode <BR>onto the stainless tube, and twist the end off when you try to <BR>replace parts like hoses and cylinders.&nbsp; My solution is to <BR>REQUEST stainless steel fittings (you have to ask for them).&nbsp; <BR>Be sure and ask them to write it on the order; ask if there is <BR>an extra charge.&nbsp; Otherwise they will just pretend they didn't <BR>hear you.&nbsp; You can check everything with a magnet; I don't <BR>think the one into the prop valve is avilable in stainless, but <BR>that one should not require service.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>here's what I found regarding the use of stainless lines.&nbsp; This applies to cars that are restored and not driven as often as they use to be in the last 60s early 70s and maybe even now stored in a climate controlled garage.&nbsp; Back in the day these vehicles were driven year round, subjected to rain, sleet and snow.&nbsp; Obviously this attacked the original steel line, it corroded and put a wrench to it, snap.&nbsp; When these cars are restored, they are driven on nice days, never in the snow, seldom if at all&nbsp;in the rain.&nbsp; For this, stainless lines&nbsp;are overkill and not needed.&nbsp; If you've got money to throw around, sure get stainless, but oem is fine.&nbsp; I also found out from a well know restoration shop in Michigan (we're talking big dollar muscle car restorations)&nbsp;that the stainless lines don't seal as well since they are harder.&nbsp; IIRC, for those that remember the article in Muscle Car Review&nbsp;several years&nbsp;back on the correct
 colors of a restored chassis.&nbsp; They used a 66 442 to show what was what.&nbsp; The guy&nbsp;who did that owns the restoration shop.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><p>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com 
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:57:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: F-85, no longer my daily driver

- --0-1160408990-1087484245=:47625
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Well, that was somewhat short lived.  One of my goals this year is to attend at least one local cruise per week.  Since I'm leaving for the Homecoming Show friday after work, I'll miss the friday cruise.  So I decided to partake in a cruise last night.  I'm driving the F-85 there and she's stuck on high idle the entire drive over (8 miles if that).  I'm thinking to myself, it gets stuck on high idle sometimes, but usually drops down, this time it didn't.  Then I get stuck in traffic and the brakes don't really stop the car, so I have to shift to neutral so I don't roll into the car in front of me.  So I finally get to the cruise and park.  I figured this isn't good, never went off high idle and I know she's running hot.  I pop the hood, yep she's boiling.  Crap, can't do anything now, I'll just lock the car (my laptop was on the front seat) and walk around.  Roll the window up and lock the passenger door.  Walk around to the driver door, roll window up BOOM!!!!!  slam door.  I knew
 something was going to happen.  Walk away because I didn't want to deal with it.  Meet up with James Aiello, walk around some more, finally go back to the car.  I show James the nicely ceramic coated exhaust manifolds I picked up Monday for my W-31.  We then pop the hood to see what went wrong.  James finds a nice 2 inch split in the heater hose that goes into the water pump.  So right by the water pump she blew.  Using my cell, I call my brother and tell him the sad story.  He's an ASE certified mechanic, I knew there was one good thing about losing my job and having to move back home.  He goes into the garage and scaveges the heater hose off my spare 69 350 2bbl motor.  He shows up, we swap hoses, pour in some coolant, which I at least had in the trunk.  I walk across the street to a restaurant and get some water to continue filling up the radiator.  Start her up, let her run and get any air bubbles out of the system.  All seems fine and the drive home was uneventful.  I did
 notice the lower radiator hose is suspect while we were looking under the hood.
 
I've actually been living on borrowed time for quite a while with this car.  The passenger front brakes last week, the heater hose this week.  The radiator has been suspect.  I had already replaced a bad water pump and leaking valve cover gaskets last fall.  Sooooo, my F-85 will be probably be parked until I can get some parts.  I have a 3 core radiator (Matt Crumley's original from his 70 S) that I'd like to see if it can get recored (been wanting to do this for like a year).  If so, then I can upgrade from the 2 core to a 3 core otherwise I may have to buy a new 3 core Modine from NAL ... unless someone has an original 3 core with good tanks they want to sell.  Also, since I'll be swapping my freshly rebuilt W-31 engine back into my W-31 and replacing all the current hoses and stuff, I can use those items on the F-85 because they were essentially brand new when the 455 was swapped in there.  But I still have those brakes to do.  And I found out the local CarQuest now carries KYB
 shocks.  Of course I can get them cheaper there because of my brothers garage account than I can through P-S-T.    The rear shocks on the car were replaced at some point, but the fronts are the original spirals.  123K miles on the car in case you are wondering.  (And now that I think about it, it's actually the vehicle in my fleet with the least miles. 155K on the mustang, 133K on the truck)  ahhhhh, it's only money right.
 
Chris (who's mustang also needs work to pass emissions, so he's back to driving his truck daily, not that there's anything wrong with that)
 
grp442@yahoo.com
1969 W-31  need to swap in rebuilt original motor
1970 F-85   need to change radiator hoses, radiator, shocks and front brakes.  oh did I mention the heater core is shot too  :-)
1969 442 parts car    nothing to swap or change, just donates parts
1970 F-85 parts car   still sitting in Ohio
1989 5.0L Mustang LX hatchback   need to swap on catalytic convertors to pass emissions
1999 GMC Sierra xcab Z-71   just did rear brakes on it, but need to check calipers
1971 LeMans parts car    nothing to swap or change, just strip parts including the front discs to put on the F-85
oh and a 93 Haulmark 24ft enclosed car trailer, which probably needs brakes on it too.

		
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<DIV>Well, that was somewhat short lived.&nbsp; One of my goals this year is to attend at least one local cruise per week.&nbsp; Since I'm leaving for the Homecoming Show friday after work, I'll miss the friday cruise.&nbsp; So I decided to partake in a cruise last night.&nbsp; I'm driving the F-85 there and she's stuck on high idle the entire drive over (8 miles if that).&nbsp; I'm thinking to myself, it gets stuck on high idle sometimes, but usually drops down, this time it didn't.&nbsp; Then I get stuck in traffic and the brakes don't really stop the car, so I have to shift to neutral so I don't roll into the car in front of me.&nbsp; So I finally get to the cruise and park.&nbsp; I figured this isn't good, never went off high idle and I know she's running hot.&nbsp; I pop the hood, yep she's boiling.&nbsp; Crap, can't do anything now, I'll just lock the car (my laptop was on the front seat) and walk around.&nbsp; Roll the window up and lock the passenger door.&nbsp; Walk around
 to the driver door, roll window up BOOM!!!!!&nbsp; slam door.&nbsp; I knew something was going to happen.&nbsp; Walk away because I didn't want to deal with it.&nbsp; Meet up with James Aiello, walk around some more, finally go back to the car.&nbsp; I show James the nicely ceramic coated exhaust manifolds I picked up Monday for my W-31.&nbsp; We then pop the hood to see what went wrong.&nbsp; James finds a nice 2 inch split in the heater hose that goes into the water pump.&nbsp; So right by the water pump she blew.&nbsp; Using my cell, I call my brother&nbsp;and tell him the sad story.&nbsp; He's an ASE certified mechanic, I knew there was one good thing about losing my job and having to move back home.&nbsp; He goes into the garage and scaveges the heater hose off my spare 69 350 2bbl motor.&nbsp; He shows up, we swap hoses, pour in some coolant, which I at least had in the trunk.&nbsp; I walk across the street to a restaurant and get some water to continue filling up the
 radiator.&nbsp; Start her up, let her run and get any air bubbles out of the system.&nbsp; All seems fine and the drive home was uneventful.&nbsp; I did notice the lower radiator hose is suspect while we were looking under the hood.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I've actually been living on borrowed time for quite a while with this car.&nbsp; The passenger front brakes last week, the heater hose this week.&nbsp; The radiator has been suspect.&nbsp; I had already replaced a bad water pump and leaking valve cover gaskets last fall.&nbsp; Sooooo, my F-85 will be probably be parked until I can get some parts.&nbsp; I have a 3 core radiator (Matt Crumley's original from his 70 S) that I'd like to see if it can get recored (been wanting to do this for like a year).&nbsp; If so, then I can upgrade from the 2 core to a 3 core otherwise I may have to buy a new 3 core Modine from NAL ... unless someone has an original&nbsp;3 core with good tanks they want to sell.&nbsp; Also, since I'll be swapping my freshly rebuilt W-31 engine back into&nbsp;my W-31&nbsp;and replacing all the current hoses and stuff, I can use those items on the F-85 because they were essentially brand new when the 455 was swapped in there.&nbsp; But I still have those brakes
 to do.&nbsp; And I found out the local CarQuest now carries KYB shocks.&nbsp; Of course I can get them&nbsp;cheaper there because of my brothers garage account than I can through P-S-T.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The rear shocks on the car were replaced at some point, but the fronts are the original spirals.&nbsp; 123K miles on the car in case you are wondering.&nbsp;&nbsp;(And now that I think about it,&nbsp;it's actually the vehicle in my fleet with the least miles. 155K on the mustang, 133K on the truck)&nbsp; ahhhhh, it's only money right.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris (who's mustang also needs work to pass emissions, so he's back to driving his truck daily, not that there's anything wrong with that)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>1969 W-31&nbsp;&nbsp;need to swap in rebuilt original motor</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85&nbsp;&nbsp; need to change radiator hoses,&nbsp;radiator, shocks and&nbsp;front brakes.&nbsp; oh did I mention the heater core is shot too&nbsp; :-)</DIV>
<DIV>1969 442 parts car&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nothing to swap or change, just donates parts</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85 parts car&nbsp;&nbsp; still sitting in Ohio</DIV>
<DIV>1989 5.0L Mustang&nbsp;LX hatchback&nbsp;&nbsp; need to swap on catalytic convertors to pass emissions</DIV>
<DIV>1999 GMC Sierra xcab Z-71&nbsp;&nbsp; just did rear brakes on it, but need to check calipers</DIV>
<DIV>1971 LeMans parts car&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nothing to swap or change, just strip parts including the front discs to put on the F-85</DIV>
<DIV>oh and a 93 Haulmark 24ft enclosed car trailer, which probably needs brakes on it too.</DIV><p>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:02:05 -0400
From: Larry <kajrav@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Front end alignment for 68 442

      Isn't what you are looking for on page 3-22 of the '68 CSM?

Larry

RobV wrote:
> Good Morning folks,
> 
> I would like to get an alignment for my 68 442.  Local shops do not appear
> to have the specific settings going back this far and do not seem to have
> the needed numbers to perform the alignment.  I have a CSM but cannot locate
> the info showing the settings for alignment.  Would anyone have alignment
> info, or share with me where in the CSM this info is?
> 
> Thanks!
> Rob
> Free Olds classifieds and Olds car registry at www.allolds.com
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:20:38 -0400
From: "Bill Reilly" <william.reilly@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 468 in the 81 CS...

Matt,

What intake and air cleaner are you using?
What motor mounts did you use?

I'm using an Edelbrock Performer intake with a dual snorkel air cleaner from
an early 80's Firebird/TA. It's a fairly low profile air cleaner and I still
get a little rub on the underside of the hood. I don't have any hood
insulation installed either. Otherwise the wing nut would have probably
ripped through that by now.

Different motor mounts might make some improvement also. I went with the 307
frame pads and motor mounts.

Your best bet is to find an aftermarket drop base air cleaner or spend some
big money for a cowl inductoin hood or scoop.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme w/ 455

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000"


> Hi guys,
> The 468 is in, but the hood is in conflict with the air filter...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:39:02 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: 455 Fuel Line

Roy,

> List,
> I'm restoring a 70 Cutlass SX and I need the metal fuel line 
> that runs from the fuel pump to the carb. Anybody have the 
> metal fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb for a 1970, 
> 455, 2 barrel (right, 2 bbl) Rochester carb they want to 
> sell? Inline and Classic only have the lines for a 4 bbl. 
> Need one in reasonably good shape, no kinks, cracks, etc. 
> Offlist response is fine, relax99@qwest.net
> 
> Thanks,
> Roy Lack

I'd try contacting the guys @ 'The Right Stuff Detailing'.  That's where I
got my complete stainless brake & fuel lines for my 1970, bent perfectly.

http://www.rightstuffdetailing.com/


Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:42:04 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 468 in the 81 CS...

Bill, thanks for the answere.
We use the 76 455 motor mounts from a 76 Brougham to clear the chassis, guys
say no way to lower the engine any more. The filter is from the same 76 car.
I have the hood insulation still installed, but it looks like the carb almos
touches it... the intake is a Ed Performer which I would like to keep... I
guess the hood will have to be cut and a reverse scoop intalled or a
snorkel... but I wanted a sleeper...
thanks again - best regards
Matt

> What intake and air cleaner are you using?
> What motor mounts did you use?
>
> I'm using an Edelbrock Performer intake with a dual snorkel air cleaner
from
> an early 80's Firebird/TA. It's a fairly low profile air cleaner and I
still
> get a little rub on the underside of the hood. I don't have any hood
> insulation installed either. Otherwise the wing nut would have probably
> ripped through that by now.
>
> Different motor mounts might make some improvement also. I went with the
307
> frame pads and motor mounts.
>
> Your best bet is to find an aftermarket drop base air cleaner or spend
some
> big money for a cowl inductoin hood or scoop.
>
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme w/ 455
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000"
>
>
> > Hi guys,
> > The 468 is in, but the hood is in conflict with the air filter...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:56:39 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: Brake line woes revisited.

Pat,

> Hello list,
> Does anyone know of a website or manufacturer for complete, 
> bent brake lines for my '78 Cutlass. I need the line from the 
> prop valve to the rear junction. It runs the whole length 
> along the frame, over the top of the upper rear control arm. 
> The threading into the prop valve is different from regular 
> brake lines. I'd rather get the whole line so I don't have to 
> put lines together and end up with a squishy pedal.
> TIA
> Pat Swanton.

Like I just wrote earlier for a fuel line question.  I'd try contacting the
guys @ 'The Right Stuff Detailing'.  That's where I got my complete
stainless brake & fuel lines for my 1970, bent perfectly.

http://www.rightstuffdetailing.com/


Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:59:02 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Carter Fuel Pump

> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:06:36 -0400
> From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Carter Fuel Pump
> 
> By the way gang, I checked with Summit and the part# for the 
> Carter fuel pump without the return line fitting is M6108 (the 
> one with the return line is M6109.  Just thought this might help 
> someone.  I definitely plan to order one myself.
> 
> Michael Ecker

Again, why order it? The local NAPA store should have it in stock - I bought one 
a couple months back for under $20, including tax. 

It's not that I don't like doing business with Year One or any of the other resto 
houses, but if folks keep buying these type items from them instead of the neighborhood 
parts stores, then eventually the parts stores will stop carrying them due to slow sales. 
Also, I just don't see any benefit in mail ordering a part and waiting a week for it to 
show up if I can get the exact same part in 20 minutes by driving to the local parts store.

Kenneth 
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:59:02 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]

Crikey
Engine ran fine last October when fired up for first time
Gas tank in, with my fitted proper vent tube.
Prime carb, fire it up, dies after 5 seconds. No fuel in filter bowl.
Repeat 10x. :-(

Pressurize tank, air but no fuel comes out the line at the FPump. ????
Blow into line at pump, air but no bubbling is observed at tank.  ???

Add more gas [was 3g in tank]
Same result. ?????

Elevate car, look at sending uint.
I know there is an indexing tab to ensure that the sending unit is aligned 
correctly. I recall putting that tab into its slot.

WTH?
Sending unit is askew
That should not even be POSSIBLE.
turns out there are TWO tabs to ensure proper alignment. Only ONE of them 
was in a slot, and the wrong slot at that. That should not even be POSSIBLE 
TO DO. Apparently, the concept of holding tolerances is lost upon the makers 
of gas tanks and sending units [SU was at least Made in USA].

Upshot- the inlet sock was at or near the TOP of the tank.
DOH!

Drained the gas out, removed the SU, re-installed it the CORRECT 
orientation.
MUCH BETTER
Gas fills bowl within 2 sec of fire-up. Car runs great now.

PS, good thing I had to remove the SU again.... the clever USA workers 
failed to properly solder the return line to the SU, the solder never wicked 
onto the SU plate properly. It had already cracked loose and was leaking. I 
soldered it well in place while it was out. Being a submerged joint with a 
full tank, that is NOT ACCEPTABLE. [SU mounts to the front wall of the fuel 
tank in 1967, not on the top surface.]

She drove under her own power to get gas last night for the first time in
- --22 YEARS--

Last registered in CA in 1982. That's before I bought my 1968 442 W30...

Might just make it to the show this weekend as a car after all.

Complete with correct PN tags on the front wheel ams, suspension springs, 
stabilizer bar, engine fan, etc.

Loose terminals in RH taillite plagues us yet, cannot seem to get the 
terminals out to fix them, might have to replace the whole socket with a 
better unit, hide splices under the wire wrap.

We have taken great pains to use as much of the car's original parts as 
possible. It still bears its original WWF reservoir and most of the rubber 
lines to the washer pump and nozzle as well. We re-colored the stripe on the 
hose to make it look like new. Original locking tabs on the xst bolts, etc.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:09:06 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel pump M6109 is the ticket

Just so you know for the future, that same Carter pump is available at
your local NAPA store. No waiting for the UPS man and no shipping charges.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ
================
I appreciate that tip, the right parts is hard to find sometimes
I just bought a kickdown cable for the 71 Cs last January... CANNOT find any 
record of it [PN]
Could have sworn it came from the NAPA store
Yet, now they are NO HELP.
NO mention of it in my personal PN list, nor in that car's paperwork.
Another feller came to the rescue with NAPA PN 17364.

HEY, if y'all need the correct "AC" logo for your fuel pumps, or the little 
boss with part number stamped in [current FP's do not even have that boss], 
I have those available from doing the restoration of the 1966 442. Yep, the 
new fuel pump bears the original FP's "AC" logo and boss with PN [located 
fwd of the upper attaching nut boss]

Pix upon request.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:52:13 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: 468 in the 81 CS...

Matt,

I believe I heard in the past that  one would have better hood clearance with an
air cleaner from a Toronado.  Because they were FWD. the engine sat higher so
the aircleaner sat lower.

Hope thiat helps,  Steve K.



Bill, thanks for the answere.
We use the 76 455 motor mounts from a 76 Brougham to clear the chassis, guys
say no way to lower the engine any more. The filter is from the same 76 car....


> What intake and air cleaner are you using?
> What motor mounts did you use?...
>

> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme w/ 455
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000"
>
>
> > Hi guys,
> > The 468 is in, but the hood is in conflict with the air filter...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:20:36 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: '70 C/S Ragtop Question

All,
    I'm in the process of finishing up the ragtop assembly in the '70.  I
have the pump which has two outlets, as well as two sets of hoses which plug
into the pump.
    Before I head to the local bone yard to take a look, I was wondering if
anyone can help.
 
One of the sets of hoses is shorter than the other.
 
Does anyone know whether the shorter lines go to the top of bottom of the
convertible cylinders, and whether it matters where they go attaching to the
pump, since there are to connections for the lines?
 
That's one of the things I didn't carefully note, and I'm confused right now
on the reassembly process.
 
Any thoughts?  Any one working on one as we speak I can see a digital
picture or two of?
 
Thanks,

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:37:54 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: brake line rust prevention, and in general

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:52:43 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Brake line woes revisited.

If you are buying stainless lines, here is what I found.  The idea
is never to replace them again.  But the steel fittings corrode
onto the stainless tube, and twist the end off when you try to
replace parts like hoses and cylinders.  My solution is to
REQUEST stainless steel fittings (you have to ask for them).
Be sure and ask them to write it on the order; ask if there is
an extra charge.  Otherwise they will just pretend they didn't
hear you.  You can check everything with a magnet; I don't
think the one into the prop valve is avilable in stainless, but
that one should not require service.
==================
No doubt the best solution is to have SS fittings.

However, I have found over the years that grease prevents rust. It's true. 
After my first rusted line experience which turned into a $300 [back 1978 
that was a lot of money] replacement of every wheel cylinder and line... I 
learned to GREASE THE FITTINGS.

Silvery Anti-sieze works great. Silicone grease works great. Even just plain 
wheel bearing grease is better than a dry fitting.

TEST FIT THE LINES FIRST, do all your bending with a dry line.

Pull back the fitting, down the tube a ways. Grease the line where the 
fitting will reside. Put the fitting there, and grease the other side. Move 
fitting back n forth and turn it to spread the goo. Repeat until the threads 
and the fitting and the tube are all well coated. Try to avoid getting lube 
into the line.

Install the lubed line. Bleed the brakes.
SLATHER EVERYTING with even MORE anti-sieze or grease. Cover it right up 
with a gob of grease. Grease ain't never kilt no machine yet.

PS this goes for the BLEEDERS too. Would you like them to zip right open 
next time? Then, remove them, clean them thoroughly, and GREASE THEM. Yes, 
it takes a few more minutes. However, it saves a few HOURS later, and tons 
of money.

Professional mechanics do not do this.
Why?
* It takes time.
* The time/ aggravation it saves later will probably not be THEIRS anyhow.
* Besides, if car owner needs all new lines and wheel cylinders next time, 
it's more work [$] for them.
* Too bad, rust happens [yeah, if you fail to take precautions against it].

If -YOU- will be the one working on your car, go ahead and take the time to 
ward off rust with EVERY THING you work on. Light bulbs. Parking lite 
lenses- how many of us have broken a lens trying to remove it because it was 
permattached to its gasket? Or, twisted off the special screw that secures 
the lens in place? A slight coating of silicone grease prevents that 
sticking!  All electrical terminals. All bolts. EVERYTHING should be lubed.

Stainless fittings on stainless line- great.
Add anti-sieze: PERFECT. There will never be a problem.

PS one should _always_ use AntiSieze on stainless items anyhow, it has a 
tendency to gall severely on stainless or plain steel or cast iron 
otherwise. With no warning, you can sieze a fastener beyond all removal 
attempts. Been there, done that.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:15:52 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]

Chris,

Congrats on getting the car running.

As much touble as my machines are, I still get satisfaction out of finally
coming up with the solution.  I hope you feel the same way!

Question:  How does one recolor the stripe on the hoses?  Is it possible to
color stripe a non-colored hose?

Thanks,  Steve.



.... We re-colored the stripe on the
hose to make it look like new. Original locking tabs on the xst bolts, etc.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:40:12 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 468 in the 81 CS...

Thanks!
Matt
From: <SKammerer@alberto.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: 468 in the 81 CS...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:49:51 -0400
From: "Jay Honeycutt" <jay@buseng.com>
Subject: Toro List?

Can anyone tell me if the Toronado list is still active . . . and, if 
so, what is the current URL or address to join?

Thanks,

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:57:06 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Gas tank finally works, the 1966 442 is A CAR once again! [Just in time]

Christopher "If it's metal, grease it." Witt wrote:

> She drove under her own power to get gas last night for the first time in
> --22 YEARS--

Congratulations.

> We have taken great pains to use as much of the car's original parts as 
> possible. It still bears its original WWF reservoir and most of the 
> rubber lines to the washer pump and nozzle as well.

Spring is a lovely time for collecting that original tire dust. :)))
- --

90% of restoring is trying to find the parts that were replaced with 
newer, better parts by the previous owners.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:00:02 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: Toro List?

Jay Honeycutt wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if the Toronado list is still active . . . and, if 
> so, what is the current URL or address to join?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
Hi Jay
    Yes the toro list is still active. I am a member to subscribe send 
an e-mail with the word "subscribe" in the subject line to 
thelist@toronado.net
John Kelsey
Dayton ohio

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:01:56 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: More on Fuel Pumps

Here is my experiences lately: I posted my problems with the AC Delco
fuel pump, part # 41567. On the dyno, this pump could not supply the
fuel required over 4500 RPM. The engine would go real lean and lose
power. I went and took the fuel pump off the engine that was in the car.
I bought it from Fusicks as AC Delco # 41567. This pump worked well, and
had no problems over 4500 RPM. So I compared them. The Fusicks pump was
stamped 40712. It had a bigger and longer protrusion where the large
fuel line feeds in, as compared to the other pump.

The pump I put on my engine is an Airtex # 40736. This pump has a
diaphragm that is about 3X bigger than the AC Delco pumps.
It has no problems keeping up with the new engine, which is modified.

My recommendation for hi po street use would be the Airtex # 40736.
Their catalog says 442 application.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4922
*********************************
