
oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, July 22 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4959



RE: Blown head gasket implications
cam hardness
Repo parts
Re: Repo parts
# 8 Olds Heads???
RE: Repo parts
RE: # 8 Olds Heads???
RE: Repo parts
Re: # 8 Olds Heads???
RE: '65 442 shifters, and other years.
Re: '65 442 shifters
Re: # 8 Olds Heads???
Re: Repo parts
Re: # 8 Olds Heads???
Reverse rotation Olds water pump
Headrests for 69 Cutlass 'S' available??
RE: VIN derivative stampings
Re: SX value and performance opinions wanted
Non - Olds "67 Pontiac Dual Gate Top Plate Needed"
dilemma - to rebody or repair
Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives
Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)
FS: 70-72 Cutlass/442 doors
Re: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives
Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:27:41 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: RE: Blown head gasket implications

>I know
>the heads will need to visit a machine shop, is there anything else I should
>look out for/be aware of/pray in honor of?

Dan:

Inspect the gasket, the head and the top of the block carefully to see 
where the leak occurred. If you ran for a bit with the blown gasket, the 
affected cylinder(s) will be rather clean, compared to the non affected 
one(s). The cylinder(s) will look almost washed. If you can see the path 
the water took, you can point out the spot to the machineshop to look 
closely in that area for warping...

If you can not pin point the water path and the gasket looks great, you 
want to look closely for a crack in the head or even the block. I had this 
happen to me on a 68 Cutlass w/ 350. Had no signs of failure on the gasket 
and it turned out to be a crack in the head. If I had resurfaced the head 
and slapped it back on, I would have been back to square one.

So, make sure you find the bad spot and have your machineshop check the 
heads for cracks regardless of what you find.

Good Luck!

George
71 C/S ragtop
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:15:39 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: cam hardness

Anybody know what the typical hardness spec (Rc) is for a camshaft? A friend
has an aftermarket cam that he dented a lobe on with little effort and he
says he can easily scratch the surface with a file. Is that normal? Maybe
they forgot to harden it?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:52:42 -0400
From: "Joe" <w30442@zoominternet.net>
Subject: Repo parts

A while back, I read that there were reproduction W30 Intakes and Rally pack
gauges being made. Does anybody have the name of the companies or web sites
for these?
Thanks,
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:31:29 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Repo parts

yr1 has gauges
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe" <w30442@zoominternet.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:52 AM
Subject: Repo parts


> A while back, I read that there were reproduction W30 Intakes and Rally pack
> gauges being made. Does anybody have the name of the companies or web sites
> for these?
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:35:50 -0400
From: Mearl Francis <mearl.francis@gmail.com>
Subject: # 8 Olds Heads???

Does anyone know if a set of #8 heads for an olds 350 are worth
picking up as spares?? A buddy has them. He said he had them rebuilt
several yrs ago and never used them. They are still in the plastic
bags from the mechine shop. He wants me to make an offer..... Are they
smogger, low compression  or are they ok?
I have # 6's on my  1969 350 engine now.
Thanks
Mearl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:39:15 -0400
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: RE: Repo parts

Joe,

The Parts Place also has these items for sale:
http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com

Enjoy!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

Joe [w30442@zoominternet.net] wrote:
>A while back, I read that there were reproduction W30 Intakes and Rally
pack gauges being made. Does 
>anybody have the name of the companies or web sites for these? Thanks, Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:44:34 -0400
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: RE: # 8 Olds Heads???

Hi Mearl,

I think those are '73 - '75-ish low compression smog heads with the big 79cc
combustion chambers.  Might be worth it if he accepts a low offer!?  Your
#6s are much better in stock form.

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

Mearl Francis [mearl.francis@gmail.com] wrote:

>Does anyone know if a set of #8 heads for an olds 350 are worth picking up
as spares?? A buddy has them. 
>He said he had them rebuilt several yrs ago and never used them. They are
still in the plastic bags from 
>the mechine shop. He wants me to make an offer..... Are they smogger, low
compression or are they ok? I 
>have # 6's on my 1969 350 engine now. Thanks Mearl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:55:50 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Repo parts

I saw the intakes in person up at the Homecoming show and they are nice.  
The Parts Place has some nice items.


Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:57:39 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: # 8 Olds Heads???

> Does anyone know if a set of #8 heads for an olds 350 are worth
> picking up as spares?? Are they
> smogger, low compression  or are they ok?
> I have # 6's on my  1969 350 engine now.

- ---------------------

'73-'76  heads with large chambers (78cc, IIRC).  Low compression unless you
do other things to compensate.  Fine for a daily driver (or a 403 if you
drill them out for the 1/2" head bolts), but not your best choice for a
performance engine.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:49:23 -0400
From: "Mike Stilwell" <Fleetsuper@msn.com>
Subject: RE: '65 442 shifters, and other years.

From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
>
> I have not been able to post for about a week,
> so I hope this gets through! Mike, there was
> actually a Husrt shifter in '65.  In Feb of '65,
> Olds introduced the rather obscure heavy duty 3
> speed manual (yes, the F*rd one) transmission,
> and it came with the floor shift Hurst
> transmission. '66 forward, all heavy duty 3-speed
> and 4-speed trans came with Hurst shifters, all
> 442s came with "442" abd "H" on the handle, and
> allelse had just the "H".  The yop of the handle
> is different in '66; '67 and up are the same at
> least theugh '69.
- --------------------------------------------------

This is good info to have, as I haven't researched 3-speeds as thoroughly as
the for 4-speeds.  However, I do know the early 3-speeds had the same type
of shifter as the 4-speeds.  Except they were not marked 442, obviously.

***************************************************


> No factory Olds shifter says "Hurst" on it.
- ---------------------------------------------------

If this is true, I'd like to know where all the shifters that have both the
442 and the HURST came from?  I have two of them, and I've seen two others
at car shows, both in 1970 442's.  This is one of the questions I have a
hard time getting a straight answer.  You are not the first person to tell
me that Olds did not have a shifter with the word HURST on the 442's.

Does anybody know if Hurst made aftermarket 442 shifters?

Mike Stilwell  OCA #13273
President - Capitol City Rockets
http://www.bigmikes442.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:29:59 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: '65 442 shifters

- --part1_d8.fae110f.2e2fd7e7_boundary
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In a message dated 7/20/04 9:59:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, imp@theriver.com
 writes:

> Mike stated the situation for GM shifters precisely. That's the way we saw
> it at the speed shop. The more rounded handle shifters were referred to as
> GM corporate shifters. The Hurst shifters made for GM were not the same as a
> Hurst Competition Plus shifter bought from a speed shop. GM couldn't and
> wouldn't afford that. The GM furnished Hurst shifter was mostly cosmetic and
> wasn't as strong as a real Hurst Competition Plus 4-speed shifter.
> Basically, the GM Hurst simply employed a flat shifter handle, but it did
> not attach the same way that a Competition Plus handle attached. The shifter
> bodies and the linkage design was also different between the two, with the
> Hurst Competition Plus being far stronger.

Milton, Listers,
        I don't know about the 65 442 shifters, but on the later models, like 
my 72, the Hurst shifter arm WAS connected to a Hurst Competition Plus 
shifter body, which I am almost 100% certain was factory installed.  As far as that 
goes, the 71 442 that I got the 3 speed heavy duty M15 transmission out of had 
the exact same shifter arm and body attached to it, only the shifter was for 
a 3 speed, instead of a 4 speed.  So GM DID use Hurst Competition Plus 
shifters in later years, in my opinion.
Steve D

- --part1_d8.fae110f.2e2fd7e7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/20/04 9:59:49=20=
PM Pacific Daylight Time, imp@theriver.com<BR>
 writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Mike stated the situation for G=
M shifters precisely. That's the way we saw<BR>
it at the speed shop. The more rounded handle shifters were referred to as<B=
R>
GM corporate shifters. The Hurst shifters made for GM were not the same as a=
<BR>
Hurst Competition Plus shifter bought from a speed shop. GM couldn't and<BR>
wouldn't afford that. The GM furnished Hurst shifter was mostly cosmetic and=
<BR>
wasn't as strong as a real Hurst Competition Plus 4-speed shifter.<BR>
Basically, the GM Hurst simply employed a flat shifter handle, but it did<BR=
>
not attach the same way that a Competition Plus handle attached. The shifter=
<BR>
bodies and the linkage design was also different between the two, with the<B=
R>
Hurst Competition Plus being far stronger.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Milton, Listers,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't know about the 65 442 shi=
fters, but on the later models, like my 72, the Hurst shifter arm WAS connec=
ted to a Hurst Competition Plus shifter body, which I am almost 100% certain=
 was factory installed.&nbsp; As far as that goes, the 71 442 that I got the=
 3 speed heavy duty M15 transmission out of had the exact same shifter arm a=
nd body attached to it, only the shifter was for a 3 speed, instead of a 4 s=
peed.&nbsp; So GM DID use Hurst Competition Plus shifters in later years, in=
 my opinion.<BR>
Steve D</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_d8.fae110f.2e2fd7e7_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:32:23 -0400
From: Mearl Francis <mearl.francis@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: # 8 Olds Heads???

Ok, Thats what i expected to hear...
Thanks
Mearl

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:44:34 -0400, Gerow, Daniel R.
<dgerow@stonehill.edu> wrote:
> Hi Mearl,
> 
> I think those are '73 - '75-ish low compression smog heads with the big 79cc
> combustion chambers.  Might be worth it if he accepts a low offer!?  Your
> #6s are much better in stock form.
> 
>  ~ Dan
> 
> -------------------------------------
> Daniel R. Gerow
> '70 W-31 4spd post
> dgerow@stonehill.edu
> http://www.oldsrocket.com
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Mearl Francis [mearl.francis@gmail.com] wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone know if a set of #8 heads for an olds 350 are worth picking up
> as spares?? A buddy has them.
> >He said he had them rebuilt several yrs ago and never used them. They are
> still in the plastic bags from
> >the mechine shop. He wants me to make an offer..... Are they smogger, low
> compression or are they ok? I
> >have # 6's on my 1969 350 engine now. Thanks Mearl
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:37:54 -0400
From: "Joe" <w30442@zoominternet.net>
Subject: Re: Repo parts

Thanks for the info everyone
Joe 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:43:06 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: # 8 Olds Heads???

79cc, low CR, had them cracked twice until swittching to #5 an later #4...
should have place for big valves and after some machinning and with flat top
pistons could run nicely..
Matt

> Does anyone know if a set of #8 heads for an olds 350 are worth
> picking up as spares?? A buddy has them. He said he had them rebuilt
> several yrs ago and never used them. They are still in the plastic
> bags from the mechine shop. He wants me to make an offer..... Are they
> smogger, low compression  or are they ok?
> I have # 6's on my  1969 350 engine now.
> Thanks
> Mearl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:42:13 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: Reverse rotation Olds water pump

Based on these pictures:

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/GMB/1301240.jpg
(Olds 4.3L v6 diesel water pump)

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/GMB/1301260.jpg
(Olds gas v8 water pump w/ HD cooling or AC)

it does appear that the 4.3L v6 diesel water pump (circa '82-'83) is a 
reverse rotation pump as compared to the gasoline versions but appears 
to have the same bolt pattern.  With the correct gasket it appears the 
diesel pump should work fine with a serpentine belt system (assuming you 
can adapt one to the Olds engine).

Anyone have a photo of the belt routing and bracket setup from the 4.3L 
diesels?  Anyone know the base to fan hub length of the diesel pumps?

I find this very interesting as I have considered trying to adapt a 
serpentine setup to the 403 that will be going into the '78 Cutlass, and 
have a NIB reverse rotation Delco fan clutch in the garage.....

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: frank iezzi <mrfiezzi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Headrests for 69 Cutlass 'S' available??

Hello to fellow Olds List members:

I usually lurk but was looking for suggestions,
opinions, lessons learned by others regarding
headrests for my 1969 Cutlass 'S'

The originals have developed cracks and was looking
for replacements. John Nasta mentioned some
reproductions were available, but thought they looked
more like hard plastic than the originals... has
anyone purchased these recently?

Does anyone have an original set in nice shape for
sale? If so, e-mail me at mrfiezzi@yahoo.com

Any and all help greatly appreciated!

Frank Iezzi
Columbus OH 
1969 Cutlass 'S'



		
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:14:05 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: VIN derivative stampings

> Notice that the 3 out in front is larger than the rest of the stamped
> numbers. Anyone care to comment on that?
> 
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ

> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:38:34 -0400
> From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
> Subject: RE: VIN derivative stampings
> 
> Stampings were done by hand, and often are not nice and neat. 
>  Obviously not an exact science.  Off-size and more often crooked and mis-spaced
> letters/numbers are more common on prefixes and suffixes, as they were
> additions to more "routine" numbers.
> 
> Sure, it could *imply*, a forgery, but especially in a case like this,
> there's not a motive.
> And to that end, I'm sorry to say that with prices going the way they are today, 
> forgeries are becoming and will be an ever increasing problem....
> 
> Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
 

Thanks for the info. Hand stamping explains the offset and larger 3. 

I wasn't even thinking about forgeries - as you stated, there's no motive to forge the VIN 
stamping of a 455 block out of a '74 Delta.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:17:16 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: SX value and performance opinions wanted

> This is true for the 71 model Olds SX, but they did make a few in 70 that
> had the W-32 package. The W-32 includes the TV code W-32 engine, OG code
> transmission, 3.23 gear.  Mine came with a positraction, FE2 suspension,
> Sport Steering wheel, Tac and gauges, Hurst Dual gate, etc.
>     http://members.trivergent.net/~cdhall/SXPage/SXPage.htm
>     http://members.trivergent.net/~cdhall/


So is that what a real-life 1970 build sheet looks like? Where did you find
it in the car? I only found my "broadcast sheet" in my 71 which didn't tell
me much except that the original convertible top was green and it came with
an AM/FM stereo (ironically, which is now missing.)

And what's with "N47 VAR PWR STRG?" Variable ratio? I didn't think they came
in these cars???
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:29:20 EDT
From: James244@aol.com
Subject: Non - Olds "67 Pontiac Dual Gate Top Plate Needed"

- -------------------------------1090430960
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Any one out there have a driver quaility top plate for a 67 Pontiac Dual Gate 
available? If so, Please reply to James244@aol.com.

Thank you,
James

- -------------------------------1090430960
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Any one out there have a driver quaility top plate for a 67 Pontiac Dua=
l Gate available? If so, Please reply to <A href=3D"mailto:James244@aol.com"=
>James244@aol.com</A>.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you,</DIV>
<DIV>James</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1090430960--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: dilemma - to rebody or repair

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So as I get my car ready for the Pure Stock meet, I've had some conversations with a few people about restoring my car. And the discussion/recommendation has again been brought up that I should just find a nice rust free shell and use that instead of trying to repair what I have. First a little history of the car. Actually for those interested in seeing pics from when I bought it, they can be seen here 1969 Cutlass S W-31 

It's a 69 Cutlass S W-31, automatic. Original engine freshly rebuilt, only things missing are the ram air hoses and scoops. original JO coded TH350 was rebuilt like 6 years ago. Original 3.91 anti-spin rear, which was recently swapped out for a recently rebuilt 68 TW coded 4.33 anti-spin. The 3.91 is being saved/stored. She's also an original paint car, code 80 which is powder blue. Of course, the paint is faded now and there are issues with the rear qtrs (brown and black primer in spots).

The body. She hasn't changed since I bought it, but being a Chicago car it's entire life, it needs extensive work. Panels that are shot and/or need repair include: trunk floor, drop offs, rear qtrs, inner and outer wheel houses, small patches on the panel in the trunk above the rear axle (someone drilled 4 access holes for the shock mounting hardware), repair or replace the doors, patch the front fenders (these have the original grease pencil W-31 marks so I'm fixing these), front windshield channel will need attention and it wouldn't surprise me if the back window does too. The floor pans are in surprisingly good shape, but they will probably need a small custom patch here and there. The is a hole in the rocker on the backside on the passenger side IIRC. Basically it needs a whole rear clip and patches to what is left. There is also 3 dents in the roof. A few dents in the hood, a couple rear small holes and a crack by the latch.

Because 69 W-31s (or any original and real W-car for that matter) are somewhat difficult to come by, my first gut instinct was to repair what I have, especially since the car is so original (albeit rough) So years ago I purchased a 69 442 parts car from AZ. This car/shell has some issues too, but a lot of it can be cut off and used to save my original shell.

Since I'm so anal and a stickler for details I want to save my car. However, after thinking about costs for all this body work, it's becoming quickly apparent that this kind of money I just flat out don't have. (I could VERY easily see $20K in the car for paint and bodywork and this doesn't even include the chunk of change I dropped for the engine rebuild and then there is interior and all the chrome) Of course, I could embark on a 10-15 year restoration, but I'm already working on that with my 66 GTO (for various reasons). so from a cost and time standpoint, the thought of finding a rust free shell, saving what I can from my original shell (interior, front fenders etc), and rebodying my car sounds like an ideal alternative, especially when my wallet is concerned. One problem I have with this, and this is just something I may have to get over and live with, is I would know my car has been rebodied. I guess I just need some time to weigh all the pros and cons and let this option sink
 in, before I give it serious consideration. One plus of going the rebody-route, is that the restoration could begin on the rust free shell and I could still enjoy driving and racing my current car until it's time to recover seats etc and swap things over.

The car also probably needs a frame too as the current frame has lots of scale and pits so it wouldn't look good after a blasting and painting/powdercoating. The rear frame rails are also a little thin.

So I guess I'm looking for some thoughts and opinions about what to do and what you guys would recommend.

Thanks for listening to me ramble on. and on. and on ......
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 
 

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>So as I get my car ready for the Pure Stock meet, I've had some conversations with a few people about restoring my car. And the discussion/recommendation has again been brought up that I should just find a nice rust free shell and use that instead of trying to repair what I have. First a little history of the car. Actually for those interested in seeing pics from when I bought it, they can be seen here </FONT><A href="http://gloryrestoparts.20megsfree.com/69w31.htm" target=_blank><FONT face=Verdana color=#000066>1969 Cutlass S W-31</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana> <BR><BR>It's a 69 Cutlass S W-31, automatic. Original engine freshly rebuilt, only things missing are the ram air hoses and scoops. original JO coded TH350 was rebuilt like 6 years ago. Original 3.91 anti-spin rear, which was recently swapped out for a recently rebuilt 68 TW coded 4.33 anti-spin. The 3.91 is being saved/stored. She's also an original paint car, code 80 which is powder blue. Of course,
 the paint is faded now and there are issues with the rear qtrs (brown and black primer in spots).<BR><BR>The body. She hasn't changed since I bought it, but being a Chicago car it's entire life, it needs extensive work. Panels that are shot and/or need repair include: trunk floor, drop offs, rear qtrs, inner and outer wheel houses, small patches on the panel in the trunk above the rear axle (someone drilled 4 access holes for the shock mounting hardware), repair or replace the doors, patch the front fenders (these have the original grease pencil W-31 marks so I'm fixing these), front windshield channel will need attention and it wouldn't surprise me if the back window does too. The floor pans are in surprisingly good shape, but they will probably need a small custom patch here and there. The is a hole in the rocker on the backside on the passenger side IIRC. Basically it needs a whole rear clip and patches to what is left. There is also 3 dents in the roof. A few dents in the hood,
 a couple rear small holes and a crack by the latch.<BR><BR>Because 69 W-31s (or any original and real W-car for that matter) are somewhat difficult to come by, my first gut instinct was to repair what I have, especially since the car is so original (albeit rough) So years ago I purchased a 69 442 parts car from AZ. This car/shell has some issues too, but a lot of it can be cut off and used to save my original shell.<BR><BR>Since I'm so anal and a stickler for details I want to save my car. However, after thinking about costs for all this body work, it's becoming quickly apparent that this kind of money I just flat out don't have. (I could VERY easily see $20K in the car for paint and bodywork and this doesn't even include the chunk of change I dropped for the engine rebuild and then there is interior and all the chrome) Of course, I could embark on a 10-15 year restoration, but I'm already working on that with my 66 GTO (for various reasons). so from a cost and time standpoint, the
 thought of finding a rust free shell, saving what I can from my original shell (interior, front fenders etc), and rebodying my car sounds like an ideal alternative, especially when my wallet is concerned. One problem I have with this, and this is just something I may have to get over and live with, is I would know my car has been rebodied. I guess I just need some time to weigh all the pros and cons and let this option sink in, before I give it serious consideration. One plus of going the rebody-route, is that the restoration could begin on the rust free shell and I could still enjoy driving and racing my current car until it's time to recover seats etc and swap things over.<BR><BR>The car also probably needs a frame too as the current frame has lots of scale and pits so it wouldn't look good after a blasting and painting/powdercoating. The rear frame rails are also a little thin.<BR><BR>So I guess I'm looking for some thoughts and opinions about what to do and what you guys would
 recommend.<BR><BR>Thanks for listening to me ramble on. and on. and on ......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><p>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com 
- --0-689458515-1090437229=:22829--

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:06:42 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives

Michael,

Based on those two pictures it appears the impellers rotate in the same 
direction -- I put them up side-by-side and the difference was the number of blades 
on the impellers.

If they had a serpentine belt system (I've never seen one of the V-6 Diesels 
myself) I'd think it'd be easy to adapt if the V-6 shares most of the external 
hardware up front.

On a related note, is the bore and stroke the same from the Diesel V-8 to the 
V-6?  I've had a really twisted idea for years regarding the Diesel piston 
and rod assembly being refitted to a gasoline engine -- I measured a gas and 
diesel piston and they had the same compression height with no dish in the top, 
and the diesel rod's factory-equipped with a fully floating wrist pin.  While a 
sizable rebalancing would be in order (as well as cleaning up and polishing 
the diesel rods and new bolts), if this could be accomplished you could make a 
"low budget" Olds 350 with serious compression for "claimer" class 
circle-track racing!

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:34:05 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)

I'm just in the process of rebuilding G heads for my 425 and wanted to use
the softer material Ford seals.
Unfortunately, I think I've gotten totally confused after Milt and Steve's
discussion last week.

Can anyone spell out exactly which 289 seals to buy? Are there two different
types, one for exhaust and one for intake? Do I need Hi-Po 289 seals or the
non perf. version?
Most Olds gasket kits come with white ones and black ones and I've always
used white for exhaust and black for intake. The heads I took apart had all
back seals.

If I use Olds seals, I've also heard that it's better to use all white
(Exhaust) because they're made from better material. Can anyone verify this?

Milt mentioned that the Ford seals are .5" long and .75" dia. The Olds seals
are .45" long and the dia. tapers from about .78" to .84". Are the Ford
differences significant?

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: FS: 70-72 Cutlass/442 doors

- --0-2052825732-1090462937=:78601
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

All,
I have a pair of doors from a 70 442 convertible.  The car was involved in a trailering accident.  The driver door is perfect, while the passenger door has a dent near the (damaged) sport mirror.  NO RUST ANYWHERE on either door.  The glass from both doors is busted.  Asking $500 for the pair.  Located in the suburbs of Chicago.  email with any questions.
 
Thanks,
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com

		
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>All,</DIV>
<DIV>I have a pair of doors from a 70 442 convertible.&nbsp; The car was involved in a trailering accident.&nbsp; The driver door is perfect, while the passenger door has&nbsp;a dent near the (damaged) sport mirror.&nbsp; NO RUST ANYWHERE on either door.&nbsp; The glass from both doors is busted.&nbsp; Asking $500 for the pair.&nbsp; Located in the suburbs of Chicago.&nbsp; email with any questions.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:33:56 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives

Can we watch the crossposting from OldsGMail? It's getting irritating trying
to follow threads that are accidentally crossposted across the lists.
Thanks,
 Chris
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:39:54 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

Chris:

It boils down to the originality. Is the car still the original car after 
you switch the entire body, including firewall with vin plate etc. Most 
people think that the car is NOT the original car and that vin swapping is 
illegal, unless it is disclosed if you sell the car.

Here is my view: You must get a kick out of owning an original W-31. If 
that's the case, and if you change the body, you will not have an original 
W-31 any more. I would either keep the body or just sell the W-31 and build 
your Cutlass w/ 455 and all the works, making it a faster and better car 
than what olds could make in 1969.

George

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4959
*********************************
