
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 16 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4990



Book on Hurst Shifters
Re: Book on Hurst Shifters
Re: Book on Hurst Shifters
RE: Woodward Dream Cruise - Olds hotspots
RE: Sound deadening stuff
Re: oil pan bolt retorque torque number???
RE: so I got the non-Olds....
`82 Toro/Rivy reliability
RE: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability
Re: Sound deadening stuff
RE: so I got the non-Olds....
Re: Olds O type carrier, 67-70
Re: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability
`82 Toro/Rivy reliability
turbo 400
Re: turbo 400
455

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:06:07 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Book on Hurst Shifters

Relative to the recent discussion of Hurst shifters, I discovered this book
is available (although the price isn't very attractive, and there's no
indication how many pages): "Vintage Hurst Shifters - A Complete Guide -
Volume 1" Book by Pete Serio

https://www.kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm

Look for PN 6999.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:30:47 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Book on Hurst Shifters

I looked at it. For anyone using a 4-speed or 3-speed, that would be a
valuable book.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: Book on Hurst Shifters


> Relative to the recent discussion of Hurst shifters, I discovered this
book
> is available (although the price isn't very attractive, and there's no
> indication how many pages): "Vintage Hurst Shifters - A Complete Guide -
> Volume 1" Book by Pete Serio
>
> https://www.kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm
>
> Look for PN 6999.
>
> SteveH
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:02:07 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Book on Hurst Shifters

- -------------------------------1092632527
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just Released June 2004

This 144-page 8 1/2" x 11" book was written  by Pete Serio, after many years
of researching and personally rebuilding the  famous Hurst shifters. This
unique compilation is the first book ever  published containing in-depth
research on all types of vintage Hurst shifters  and is fully authorized by
Hurst  Performance.

$29.95

- -------------------------------1092632527
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>Just Released June 2004<BR><BR>This 144-page 8 1/2" x 11" book was writ=
ten=20
by Pete Serio, after many years<BR>of researching and personally rebuilding=20=
the=20
famous Hurst shifters. This<BR>unique compilation is the first book ever=20
published containing in-depth<BR>research on all types of vintage Hurst shif=
ters=20
and is fully authorized by<BR>Hurst=20
Performance.<BR><BR>$29.95</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1092632527--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:25:11 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: Woodward Dream Cruise - Olds hotspots

The Motor City Rockets Chapter of the OCA will be parked at the Wendy's on
Woodward between 12 and 13 Mile Roads.

Check out:  http://www.wideopenwest.com/~lorway/mcr/index.htm

You should consider joining the Club.  They are a great bunch of people and
there is always some kind of event going on in the summer.

HTH,

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
69 Cutlass S Convertible
[H/O Reproduction]


- -----Original Message-----
From: LooseCanno@aol.com [mailto:LooseCanno@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:35 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Woodward Dream Cruise - Olds hotspots


Hey gang, 
It's been a while since I've posted... probably 5 years since I was
lambasted for.... well, never mind.

Anyway, I've migrated to Michigan and brought my '69 Cutlass 'S'
convertible, and now I wanna know ---

Where do the Olds guys (and cars) hang out along Woodward?

If you tell me, I'll meet you there!

Thanks!
Erik

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:31:59 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: Sound deadening stuff

I used a product called "Brown Bread" when I installed a new sound system in
my Saturn VUE.  Very similar to Dynamat but MUCH cheaper.  Consists of a tar
like layer with an aluminum foil type cover.  Highly recommended.

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
69 Cutlass S Convertible
[H/O Reproduction]


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott White [mailto:scottwhite98@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:53 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Sound deadening stuff
> 
> 
> Hello all-
> 
> Since this year I'm doing the interior, I am stuck with the 
> decision of 
> sound deadening panels.  Dynamat, I guess, is the foremost in 
> this materiel 
> and the stuff is quite pricey, about $.06 (six cents) a square inch 
> ($8.64/sq. foot, if someone cares). .  Is there any other 
> alternative that, 
> while not being so great, might not also be so hard on the 
> pocketbook?    I 
> found an aerosol can of something called Dead Skin made by 
> Rockford-Fosgate 
> for sound deadening, but it was $30.00 (!!!!) and it didn't 
> say how much 
> area it covered.
> 
> On digest mode
> Scott "having four cars on life support really sucks" White
> 93 Cutlass Supreme S
> 86 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
> 70 Cutlass Supreme
> 55 Super 88
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:43:44 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: oil pan bolt retorque torque number???

- -------------------------------1092660224
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Try lock washers. Ratchet feel just slightly tighter than finger-tight.  
(just til the lock washer closes) and the "spring-back" effect of the lock  washer 
will prevent the bolt from loosening. 
 
 
Bruce
75  Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92  Eldo

- -------------------------------1092660224
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>Try lock washers. Ratchet feel just slightly tighter than finger-tight.=
=20
(just til the lock washer closes) and the "spring-back" effect of the lock=20
washer will prevent the bolt from loosening. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75=20
Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190 SL Conv.<BR>=
92=20
Eldo</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1092660224--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:55:52 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: so I got the non-Olds....

>Ok, between something of time pressure, and future potential and
>CHEAP availability of stuff... I got the 80K mile 1988 Thunderbird...
>V8 of course.
>
>So now here's my dilemma.  I bought a non-Olds.

You can get past this crisis. I did.  :-)  Olds list members are extremely 
forgiving of transgressions like this.

>Does anyone here either know of, or have membership to, an equally
>friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful email-list that might give me
>the same guidance with the Ford that I've had from this list with
>my Oldsmobiles?
>
>I'm not exaggerating when I say I feel slightly lost right now,
>having this car with potentially "neat-o" factor, but not knowing
>a darn thing about it!

First of all, get the factory manuals for this car. In particular, look for 
a copy of Volume H, the "Engine/Emissions Diagnosis" (E/ED) manual. This 
will enable you to do all the tuning, diagnosis and repairs needed on the 
engine, and particularly how you run the various self-tests that the engine 
control processors (EEC-IV in your case, I think) can do for you. Our 
company provided Ford's publishing systems that were used to create those 
manuals so we're rather proud of them.  :-)

(No, you don't also need Volumes A through G; they're not organized that 
way.)

Basic diagnostic testing is done by grounding a diagnostic connector under 
the hood; it's sufficiently fiddly that it's worth spending the $20 or so to 
get one of those aftermarket diagnostic boxes that will provide the 
necessary slide switch, LED blinking, etc. to make under-the-hood work a 
little less of a hassle. (Technologically it's on the same level as 
jumpering GM's ALDL connector with a paper clip, but more fiddly since 
you're messing around with a greasy/grimy open socket under the hood. You 
must not use an incandescent (light-bulb) tester on that connector; only an 
LED type.)

Have fun. Whatever problems you experience with your T-bird, you will 
invariably have to clean out a clogged EGR system to fix it. (e.g. Rough 
idle, stalling, burned-out taillight, etc. :-)

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:22:41 -0400
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@connect-one.com>
Subject: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

- --=======4CFE4177=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-79F25813; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I've been shopping for another beater to replace my wrecked `87 Cutlass and 
I've come across an `82 Buick Riviera.

Can you guys tell me anything about the transaxle in the `82 
Toro/Rivy?  How is it for reliability?   Is it based on the 200-4R?  Is the 
3-speed based on the TH-350?  How does all that FWD machinery (CV joints, 
wheel bearings, etc.) hold up?

I'm not so concerned about the motor for reliability, My wrecked `87 has 
a  running 3.8V6 I can use if all else fails.  I'm just looking for a daily 
driver, and would rather not set myself up for a transaxle rebuild in the 
near future. :P

Thanks.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
67 Cutlass Supreme 4-door
Roanoke, VA

- --=======4CFE4177=======--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:57:56 -0400
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

Any 22 year old car regardless of initial quality is currently the product
of how and where it was maintained during it's life.

But the more features on a car the more that can and will break. Luxo yachts
just break more. The Toro/Rivera are in that group.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Greg Pruett
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:23 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability


I've been shopping for another beater to replace my wrecked `87 Cutlass and
I've come across an `82 Buick Riviera.

Can you guys tell me anything about the transaxle in the `82
Toro/Rivy?  How is it for reliability?   Is it based on the 200-4R?  Is the
3-speed based on the TH-350?  How does all that FWD machinery (CV joints,
wheel bearings, etc.) hold up?

I'm not so concerned about the motor for reliability, My wrecked `87 has
a  running 3.8V6 I can use if all else fails.  I'm just looking for a daily
driver, and would rather not set myself up for a transaxle rebuild in the
near future. :P

Thanks.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
67 Cutlass Supreme 4-door
Roanoke, VA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gary Wiles <royale455@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sound deadening stuff

I'm an amateur sound guy and been looking into sound deadening products for a while
now.  I am partial to the liquid products (can be rolled, brushed or sprayed) as
they seem to perform better, do not trap water and are about half the weight of the
mats.  I was bored at work one day and calculated how much area the liquid would
cover if applied the same thickness as the mats.  The $/area of coverage is
basically the same as the more reasonably priced mats (not dynamat).

Here is a list of various products and links to them that I have found.

***There is a guy on evil selling "fatmat".  It's a long story but buy from him at
your own risk.***


Sound Dampening Products		
GM Sound Dampening
http://www.customvan.com/forums/CustomVan.com_Open_Forum/posts/152.html
			www.coatingsolution.com
			richards@latitude47.com	

Advanced Acoustical	http://www.advancedacoustical.com/
			http://www.trigonmanufacturing.com	VL-37
Cascade			http://www.cascadeaudio.com/	
Dynashield		http://www.dynamat.com/car_dynashield.htm	
Quietnoise		http://www.quietnoise.com/
Quiet Solution		http://www.quietsolution.com/
			http://www.quietcoat.com/
Second Skin		www.secondskinaudio.com	
e-dead			http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep2/edead.htm	
		
Peel and Seal	http://www.mfmbp.com/peelseal/	
nuprene		-unable to find manufacturer link

Also from the Thomas Register Directory-
	www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/noise_control

	www.soundproofing.org
	www.quietnoise.com
	www.soundcontrol.com
	www.industrialnoisecontrol.com
	www.soundseal.com
	www.industrialacoustics.com
	www.homasote.com
	www.eNoiseControl.com
	www.nonoise.org/products/industrial_noise_control
	www.acousticsfirst.com
	www.kineticsnoise.com/sabsorb.html



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:39:07 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: so I got the non-Olds....

> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:09:35 -0400
> From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
> Subject: so I got the non-Olds....

snip 
 
> 	Does anyone here either know of, or have membership to, 
> an equally friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful email-list 
> that might give me the same guidance with the Ford that I've 
> had from this list with my Oldsmobiles?

I don't know of an e-mail list, but I have a link to the Thunderbird and Cougar Club of America's (TCCoA)web site:
http://www.tccoa.com/cgi-bin/techbbs.cgi?

There's a message board and some really good technical pages. I got a lot of help from the site, even to the point of doing a valve body mod of the '95 T-Bird to correct the lazy up and down shifting at WOT. It sometimes took 1.5-2 seconds to downshift, which led to me nearly being run over multiple times when changing lanes on the highway. The info was provided by a fella who was a transmission engineer for Ford, and I have to say that it felt like a different completely car after the mods - instant up/down shifting and chirping second gear. The car went from a constant frustration to an absolute joy to drive. Fortunately, your '88 has the AOD trans and not the 4R70W trans that I had to fight with, so you're in good shape.

Kenneth 
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:43:04 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Olds O type carrier, 67-70

> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:19:34 EDT
> From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Olds O type carrier, 67-70
> 
> - -------------------------------1092500374
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Anyone have an Oldsmobile O type posi carrier with a 671 
> casting  number for 
> sale or trade?  I have a 672 and a 673 that I would offer  
> up.  The 673 is for 
> 2.56 or 2.78 with 28 spline axles, and the 672 is for  3.42 
> and up with 31 
> spline axles.  Or I will purchase outright for cash.  
> Thanks,
> Steve

I would suggest you contact Brian Trick. He has lots of Olds diff parts 
and would likely be very happy to trade for the 672 carrier.

bltrick@aol.com

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:51:03 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

> I've been shopping for another beater to replace my wrecked `87 Cutlass
and
> I've come across an `82 Buick Riviera.
>
> Can you guys tell me anything about the transaxle in the `82
> Toro/Rivy?  How is it for reliability?   Is it based on the 200-4R?  Is
the
> 3-speed based on the TH-350?  How does all that FWD machinery (CV joints,
> wheel bearings, etc.) hold up?

I've got an 80 Toro that I drive everyday and have never had a problem with
the FWD. Mine is a three speed based on the TH350. Going on eight years now
as my daily driver and the only problems have been electrical gremlins when
the old contacts etc. get corroded with age. Nothing critical, just
windshield washers, automatic leveling etc.
It's a great car for reliability.
Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:24:34 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

Behalf Of Greg Pruett
> Sent: Aug 16, 2004
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

> I've been shopping for another beater to replace my 
> wrecked `87 Cutlass and
> I've come across an `82 Buick Riviera.
> 
> Can you guys tell me anything about the transaxle in the `82
> Toro/Rivy?  How is it for reliability?   Is it based on the 
> 200-4R?   Is the 3-speed based on the TH-350?  How 
> does all that FWD machinery (CV joints,
> wheel bearings, etc.) hold up?

I've had a 79 Toro/Eldo around for over 2 decades.  I found 
the 79-81  3 speed to be a pretty reliable trans, once you put 
in the mandetory shift kit.  This does include adding a drain 
plug so I can do oil/filter every 10K or so.  However, I have 
had 2 differentials fail, a couple of crystalized teeth break 
off the ring gear and make a mess.  

I don't know about the 82-85 4 speed, but I'd rather have 
the 3 speed.  The half shafts/wheel bearings need the 
usual maintenance, which is to say more than a RWD car.

The 350 Olds engines last forever if taken care of.  The 
5.0 is probably comparable.  

Oh yea, all that fancy stuff in the body (power windows, 
antenna, etc) will break down all the time, but won't 
keep you from getting where you're going.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:43:09 -0400
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: turbo 400

Any transmission experts on the list. What are the differences between a
1969 turbo 400 and a 1976 turbo 400.
I'm thinking of switching the transmission in my 69 Cutlass and have come
across two transmissions.
My first impulse is to put the 69 transmission into a 69 car.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:04:18 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: turbo 400

it depends what the application is.
that will dictate what  number of clutchs are used in each pack, the  drum thickness ect.  example a
trans out of a hurst/olds and a trans from a big heavy  caddy, short tail will most likely use
heavier drum,more clutch's in the pack, heavier sprags, ect, where a th 400 in lets say a omega will
have lkess cluth's per pack,lighter drum and sprag assy.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:43 PM
Subject: turbo 400


> Any transmission experts on the list. What are the differences between a
> 1969 turbo 400 and a 1976 turbo 400.
> I'm thinking of switching the transmission in my 69 Cutlass and have come
> across two transmissions.
> My first impulse is to put the 69 transmission into a 69 car.
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:59:19 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: 455

Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 in my 98.  I would
like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
lbs. torque. The old 98s of 1968-71 had 455s that turned out 360 to 370 hp.
at around 450 ft. lbs. torque. I am a pretty good stock mechanic, but
frankly am overwhelmed by all the speed/power stuff, and do not really know
what is good from what is just ok. I still want to stay with a carbureted
engine, because if something goes wrong "I" can still fix it. I would like
to be able to stick with regular pump gas, and had roughly figured that new
pistons at 9.5 to 9.75-1 should work. I would like to make it as bullet
proof as possible, and intend to install headers and dual pipes. Any advise
about what to do along with what to buy, i.e.. namebrands, would be most
helpful and appreciated. Should I ditch the heads that are on it now for
some out of a W30 , or can my heads be reworked in order to breath better.
Thanks.

Rick Messenger

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4990
*********************************
