
oldsmobile-digest       Saturday, July 24 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4962



rear view mirror screw
undercover car dealer article?
94 Olds Cut Conv 4 Sale
Re: undercover car dealer article?
Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair
Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair
Re: Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)
Original W31?
Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair
Sealed Power/Federal Mogul/TRW forged pistons - was: Re: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives
FW: YOUR PAYMENT INFO REQUIRED/455 Oldsmobile RACING ENGINE.
Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair
Re: Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)
RE: Original W31?  time to be realistic
Re: Re-bodied car

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:39:59 EDT
From: Roncutlass@aol.com
Subject: rear view mirror screw

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Anyone know the proper size screw for the top screw in a 70 ragtop rear view 
mirror?  Would it be the same as a hardtop?  Thanks, Ron

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Anyone know the proper size screw f=
or the top screw in a 70 ragtop rear view mirror?&nbsp; Would it be the same=
 as a hardtop?&nbsp; Thanks, Ron</FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:54:36 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: undercover car dealer article?

Guys,

A while back, someone posted an article about a journalist who went
undercover, posing as a car salesman.

I've apparently lost the link... anyone else still got it?

Thanks!

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:53:56 EDT
From: Rcktpwr2@aol.com
Subject: 94 Olds Cut Conv 4 Sale

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Red/white, white top. Fully loaded, good cond. 
 
 3.4 blown head gasket
 
 All options work except p/ant. Motor runs, mast doesn't move. If  that's 
replaceable then it shouldn't be a problem.
 
 Asking 2500.
 
 Car is in Cranford NJ
 
 Can deliver, depending on location. Have pic to send. I want to sell  to 
concentrate on my 2 67's. Thanks,
 
  Bernie NJ

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>Red/white, white top. Fully loaded, good cond. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;3.4 blown head gasket</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;All options work except p/ant. Motor runs, mast doesn't move. If=20
that's replaceable then it shouldn't be&nbsp;a problem.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;Asking 2500.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;Car is in Cranford NJ</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;Can deliver, depending on location. Have pic to send. I want to s=
ell=20
to concentrate on my 2 67's. Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; Bernie NJ</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1090551235--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:33:56 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: undercover car dealer article?

>http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:39:24 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

>George, while it IS your viewpoint, I have to agree with Chris Witt.  You 
>ARE on dope.

You come on the list, want to know what people think and then call them 
dope heads if their opinions or suggestions aren't what you'd like to hear?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:36:03 -0400
From: OldsEnuf@webtv.net (Mark Sopp)
Subject: Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

Chris,
  Get a grip....George isn`t on dope...I`m wondering about you
though.:-)
   I saw your car in Parsippanny in 2000.You are nowhere near a First
Place National winner,12 second W31...unless the car is at White Post in
Va.
  There were no 1969 12 second 320 HP Cutlass S models that left the
factory...
  Like all of us car guys...we like to dream.The restoration to show car
standards of that W31 is exactly that...and will cost you a
fortune.....probably twice what it`ll be worth when you are done...and
you ain`t gonna have no 12 second car.
   My forged crank,Chuck Kibler built 455/425+ HP 70 442 with 4:33
rear.~might~ hit the 12 second mark...a 69 350/320HP Cutlass is gonna
need Nitrous to do it.
   As far as the resto of your car is concerned...it`s a no brainer.Find
a nice clean shell and swap all the W31 parts over and save yourself a
~lot~ of money and time.
   You asked for opinions...here`s mine.

Good Luck!
Markas

http://community.webtv.net/vfquick442/My1970442

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:08:30 -0500
From: "Stephen Reed" <stephenreed@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)

Mick,

>> When you are referring to the seals, who is the supplier?
>> Steve Reed

>Steve,

>The Olds seals I was talking about are just the typical seals in the Felpro
>gasket kit. Both the black and white are a stiff hard plastic type
material.
>I want to us the more flexible 289 seals if possible.

>Mick Gillespie

I agree 100% use the black soft concave rubber Ford seals.  Or if you have a
machine shop locally they should have a various inventory of possible 11/32
seals for you to use.  As I wrote earlier, the brand I used to use was
"Toke", and the seals were green in color.


Steve Reed
Austin, TX
'96 9C1 Caprice
'70 Ragtop Cutlass
'68 Cutlass (Unrestored)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 9:56:48 -0400
From: <old442@adelphia.net>
Subject: Original W31?

> In a message dated 7/21/04 10:45:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
> writes:
>
> It boils down to the originality. Is the car still the original car after
> you switch the entire body, including firewall with vin plate etc. Most
> people think that the car is NOT the original car and that vin swapping is
> illegal, unless it is disclosed if you sell the car.

Seems to be reminiscent of Chris Witts 'vette restoration story.  Chris, I
think you need to send that one out again, I can't find it and I'm sure many
would enjoy it.

Know for my spin on the discussion:

Suppose the passenger fender was damaged in transport to the dealer.  GM
told the dealer to put a new fender on, paint it and sell it.  Is the car
still original?

At age 2, the car is in an accident.  The front bumper, grill, hood and
drivers fender are replaced.  Is the car still original?

At age 15 there's rust in the quarters, trunk pan and doors.  These items
are replaced and the car is repainted.  Is the car still original?

At age 20 the dash, door panels, carpet and seat covers are replaced.  Is
the car still original?

At age 25 the frame has major rust and is reaplaced.  Is the car still
original?

At age 30 the car is converted from a bench with column shift to buckets and
console with a dual gate.  Is the car still original?

Now at the age of 35 Chris gets the car.  The only thing wrong is the
firewall has rust holes.  He gets out the plasma cutter and torch and
replaces it with one from a donor.  He moves the VIN tag from the old
firewall to the new one.  Is the car still original?

If you said the car was original until the firewall replacement then you
must think the firewall, and the firewall alone, represents the car since
the VIN tag is mounted on it.

If you said the car was original at every step, welcome to the real world,
cars are repaired AND modified during their life. A restoration is just a
lot at once.  It makes no difference (except to his wallet) if Chris were to
replace every body panel one at a time or swap the body entirely, you end up
with the same net result. Personally, I think the seat/shifter swap would
make it less "original" than everything else listed, but have no problem
with it.

Bottom line is Chris has everything that was unique to the W-31, namely the
drivetrain.  If he replaces ONE damaged or missing part with on from a
standard Cutlass there is no problem.  If he replaces ALL of the parts that
are the same as a standard Cutlass there should be no problem as long as
everything that made the W-31 unique is there.  Just my .02

Kurt Heinrich
OCA# 30442
old442@adelphia.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:37:24 -0400
From: james.zito@ps.ge.com
Subject: Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

>From Steve D:

Imagine what would happen to you if  you took your newly VIN'ed, nicely
restored W 31 into any highway Patrol station in the country and tried to
get them to verify it so you could get tags for it.
 "Yes officer, I would like to get my car inspected, and oh, by the way, 
put a new VIN tag on it because my old car was too rusted out to fix."  What
do
you think is going to happen to you?  Your car?  You are going to jail and
the
car would be impounded.  It is not legal to change VIN's on any car for any
reason. 

- ----------------------

Actually you don't even need to tell them since the VIN is also stamped into
the rear driver's side frame rail on the outside about 10" ahead of the
actual end of the rail.  In nice 3/4" tall letters and numbers.  At least
that is where it lives on the 68-72 cars.


Jim
69 442 conv
still in pieces....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:08:08 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Sealed Power/Federal Mogul/TRW forged pistons - was: Re: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives

> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:44:15 -0400
> From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Diesels And Serpentine Belt Drives
 
snip

> or: Speed Pro forged piston part# L2321F30 (0.030" overbore only), 
> 1.612" compression distance, pressed or floating pins, 0.076" deep x 
> 2.44" diameter dish (5.8cc), normal ring package

snip

> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net

For some unknown reason, Federal Mogul has those L2321F pistons still 
listed on their web site, even though they have been discontinued for 
many, many years. I was really disappointed to learn that 4 or 5 years 
ago when I was looking for a set of 10.25:1 replacement pistons. I called 
and asked about them, and was told they were no longer available. I asked 
about the L2412F (13.87cc dish) forged 350 pistons for my 400-E block project, 
and was told that there were 7 showing in warehouses across the country. 
Lotta good that does anyone. The ONLY forged 350 pistons they still make 
are the L2320F flat tops, and in STD and .030" over only. I guess we're not 
supposed to bore our blocks a second time. What a waste.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:16:44 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: YOUR PAYMENT INFO REQUIRED/455 Oldsmobile RACING ENGINE.

>From: james cole <carlinkautos2004@yahoo.com>
>To: Christopher Witt <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>Subject: YOUR PAYMENT INFO REQUIRED/455 Oldsmobile RACING ENGINE.
>Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
>
>DEAR Christopher Witt,
>                 I have just finalized payment issues with my customer this
>evening for the ENGINE,
===============
Oh, good, I need to sell that ENGINE, and would really very much like to 
give you the business. Not many ENGINES like that around, you know.


and he has informed me that he is expecting
>a refund payment of a vehicle that he had earlier ordered and paid
>for about a month ago, but the order was later cancelled, because
>when the agent went to pick up the vehicle, he inspected the order
>and discovered that vehicle was not in any good condition, so the order was
>cancelled, and then the he filed in, for a refund of his money.
=============
I am sorry to hear of your misfortune. I assure you, your experience with me 
will not be at all like that.


?> My customer now intends use this his refund to pay for this your ENGINE
>that he now wants to buy. Due to company policy and book keeping,
>this refund payment which he is expecting, can only be made out in
>this one whole amount, that is the full amount which he paid
>before,because the company policy only allows a refund payment in one
>cashier check, so he has to instruct for the check payment to be
>drawn to you. So he has informed me that payment will get to you in a
>cashier check.
=============
I understand. That happens a lot. I get a lot of customers that want to buy 
a car or an ENGINE with cashier's check. As long as the funds are US dollars 
on a US bank, we should be good to go.


>He is expecting a refund payment of $11,800, When payment gets to
>you, you are required to deduct the cost of your ENGINE which is
>$5,500 and return his remaining balance of $6,300. back to the
>customer for him to be able to offset shipping charges, tax and other
>commission charges.
===========
As I mentioned, I prefer the BUYER to take care of all the shipping 
arrangements.


After all payment has reached you and balance
>sent back to my customer, the agent will come for pick up, while you
>send the receipt and other title papers to my client via courier.
>You are required to forward your payment information (1) name,
>(2)address and (3) phone number for payment to be made to you
>immediately.
>Thanks,
>MR.JAMES
>DM CARLINK INC...........
=====================
Here's my contact info

Please provide me with your contact info as well.

I look forward to meeting you in person one day to see what use you devised 
for the this ENGINE.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days


>   <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hello,
>We have a customer interested in purchasing your RACING ENGINE for the
>price of $5,500.
>Please acknowledge our offer and indicate the present position of the
>item (send pictures in different views so we can access the face value
>of the order)
>On comfirmation we will instruct the buyer, to have the funds remitted
>to your account as soon as possible. We will arrange a pick up of the
>(item ), once payment is confirmed by you the seller.
>Thanks,
>JAMES
>===============
>James- Not a problem- how many pictures do you want?
>I look forward to doing business with you
>I prefer that the buyer take care of all shipping arrangements.
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE 
download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:18:53 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: dilemma - to rebody or repair

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In a message dated 7/22/04 7:18:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, grp442@yahoo.com
writes:

> Steve,
> agreed, not trying to start a flame war either.  But there are multiple 
> items wrong with specifics in your reply as it relates to my specific situation.
       
       Yeah, you're right Chris.  I guess what I should have said was that 
what you are thinking of doing is illegal is hell, and that if a body shop did 
what you are proposing, then THEY would go to jail and the car would be 
impounded if they got caught.  Sorry.
        All I am going to say about this is that if you ever decide to sell 
the car after swapping the VIN with another car, are you going to disclose this 
information with the buyer, or keep it your little secret?  You already said 
that you would never sell the car, unless someone offers ridiculous money for 
it, so how much are you going to get if you tell the guy that the car has the 
wrong VIN on it?   
       Like I said before, I'm sure this happens more than we like to think 
it does.  
Steve D

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/22/04 7:18:56=20=
PM Pacific Daylight Time, grp442@yahoo.com<BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Steve,<BR>
agreed, not trying to start a flame war either.&nbsp; But there are multiple=
 items wrong with specifics in your reply as it relates to my specific situa=
tion.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, you're right Chris.&nbsp; I guess=
 what I should have said was that what you are thinking of doing is illegal=20=
is hell, and that if a body shop did what you are proposing, then THEY would=
 go to jail and the car would be impounded if they got caught.&nbsp; Sorry.<=
BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; All I am going to say about this=20=
is that if you ever decide to sell the car after swapping the VIN with anoth=
er car, are you going to disclose this information with the buyer, or keep i=
t your little secret?&nbsp; You already said that you would never sell the c=
ar, unless someone offers ridiculous money for it, so how much are you going=
 to get if you tell the guy that the car has the wrong VIN on it?&nbsp;&nbsp=
; <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Like I said before, I'm sure this happe=
ns more than we like to think it does.&nbsp; <BR>
Steve D</FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:13:18 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Ford 289 valve Seals (Again)

At 12:21 AM 7/22/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>From my 2001 CLEVITE engine parts catalog:
>
>Ford 289
>#216-1033 = intake and exhaust valve seal, except special 4 barrel carb
>1963-1968, also 1962-1963 221 V8 and 1962-1965 260 V8 and 1968-1980 302
>#216-1052 = intake and exhaust valve seal special 4 barrel carb 1963-1967
>
>I would have to see them both to tell which ones I use.

I will get pictures, perhaps as early as tomorrow.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:26:39 -0400
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: RE: Original W31?  time to be realistic

Now that we've had a little time to cool down about this issue, let's try to
take an objective view of this subject.  And this Kurt thinks that Kurt is
on the right track here.  And believe me, I have some very strong opinions
here myself: I *highly* value as original a car as possible.
That said, I've spent a lot of time thinking about and discussing this issue
with others.  I think we really need to alter our preconceived ideas and
vocabulary when it comes to descriptions.
As Kurt said, little by little as we change the car, we digress from
originality.  So originality is a matter of degree,and should be defined in
that way.  A good word to bring into this arena is "correct".  Correct is a
matter of degree, too, but differs in that a fender, say, can be correct,
but not original.
There is lots more to go into on this subject, but I'm just trying here to
get the thinking going in the right direction.
This isn't about who's right and who's wrong.  It is about the (accurate)
preservation of Oldsmobiles.  Which is what the Oldsmobile Club of America
is supposed to be about.  I don't feel they are doing enough, though.  With
a *very* weakly supported "Unrestored Class", and a judging system that
allows (for example)un-original color paint without deduction, well.......

Okay, off the soapbox.

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of old442@adelphia.net
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:57 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Original W31?
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/21/04 10:45:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
> > writes:
> >
> > It boils down to the originality. Is the car still the original
> car after
> > you switch the entire body, including firewall with vin plate etc. Most
> > people think that the car is NOT the original car and that vin
> swapping is
> > illegal, unless it is disclosed if you sell the car.
>
> Seems to be reminiscent of Chris Witts 'vette restoration story.  Chris, I
> think you need to send that one out again, I can't find it and
> I'm sure many
> would enjoy it.
>
> Know for my spin on the discussion:
>
> Suppose the passenger fender was damaged in transport to the dealer.  GM
> told the dealer to put a new fender on, paint it and sell it.  Is the car
> still original?
>
> At age 2, the car is in an accident.  The front bumper, grill, hood and
> drivers fender are replaced.  Is the car still original?
>
> At age 15 there's rust in the quarters, trunk pan and doors.  These items
> are replaced and the car is repainted.  Is the car still original?
>
> At age 20 the dash, door panels, carpet and seat covers are replaced.  Is
> the car still original?
>
> At age 25 the frame has major rust and is reaplaced.  Is the car still
> original?
>
> At age 30 the car is converted from a bench with column shift to
> buckets and
> console with a dual gate.  Is the car still original?
>
> Now at the age of 35 Chris gets the car.  The only thing wrong is the
> firewall has rust holes.  He gets out the plasma cutter and torch and
> replaces it with one from a donor.  He moves the VIN tag from the old
> firewall to the new one.  Is the car still original?
>
> If you said the car was original until the firewall replacement then you
> must think the firewall, and the firewall alone, represents the car since
> the VIN tag is mounted on it.
>
> If you said the car was original at every step, welcome to the real world,
> cars are repaired AND modified during their life. A restoration is just a
> lot at once.  It makes no difference (except to his wallet) if
> Chris were to
> replace every body panel one at a time or swap the body entirely,
> you end up
> with the same net result. Personally, I think the seat/shifter swap would
> make it less "original" than everything else listed, but have no problem
> with it.
>
> Bottom line is Chris has everything that was unique to the W-31,
> namely the
> drivetrain.  If he replaces ONE damaged or missing part with on from a
> standard Cutlass there is no problem.  If he replaces ALL of the
> parts that
> are the same as a standard Cutlass there should be no problem as long as
> everything that made the W-31 unique is there.  Just my .02
>
> Kurt Heinrich
> OCA# 30442
> old442@adelphia.net
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:29:25 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car

Chris S. wrote
<<<Now here is where I have an issue.  HOW is the car a fake??????  Please 
someone, ANYONE explain to me how the car is a fake and what the difference 
is if, for discussion purposes, the car is rebodied versus replacing 99% of 
the sheetmetal on the existing shell????  In both instances, the vin on the 
dash matches the vin on the title.  From a collector car person standpoint, 
the vin derivative stamping on the block and tranny match the vin on the 
dash, which matches the vin on the title.  Is it a fake???  It's got the 
correct carb, air cleaner, W31 grease pencil marks on the inner fenders 
(not all W cars had these), I have the W-31 specific balancer and the 
original pistons that were removed from the engine since it had to be bored 
30 over.  How is the car still a fake?

Now lets assume I had a plain jain 69 Cutlass S, that I decided to rebody 
and then ADD all the W-31 specific parts.  I represent the car as a 
W-31.  THEN the car is a fake and IF I sell it and IF it gets back to me, I 
have committed fraud and THEN I go to jail.  but this is starting with 
something that is NOT a W-31 as it left the factory.

I'm just trying to find out at what point is the car a) not original 
anymore and therefore why someone would not consider it a W-31 b) why 
someone would consider the car a fake when it is infact a W-31 that has had 
a MAJOR restoration (ie replacing 99% of the sheetmetal on the existing shell).

signed,
confused and perplexed in Chicago>>>

Chris,

I agree with you 100%.  If a guy finds/has a REAL 442, GTO, Corvette, etc 
with the correct mechanicals, interior, body, etc, ie a REAL car, with a 
POS body, I personally like the fact that he resurrects this REAL car with 
another clean body.  The owner and any onlooker can then enjoy the car for 
the forseeable future.  Do all of you realize how many "nice" cars are out 
there that have parts from many, many other cars, re-stamped power trains, 
repo or all kinds of fake shit on them?  I am from rust country (Ohio) 
originally, and there are hundreds of nice show cars in the east and 
midwest running around that are rebodied with the original vin tags and 
trim tags on them, all matching the titles, with no stolen/bogus parts on 
them.  I helped do some of them. They are honest "Restorations" of REAL 
cars. No cops were ever involved with anything regarding these cars, since 
there is no fraud.  I know original owners of muscle cars that have "new" 
bodies on them simply because the original was rotten beyond common 
sense/monetary limits regarding body work. So, a nice car with a frame from 
another car is fake???????  Happens every day.  Some of our cars were 
thrashed and wrecked when new by original owners, and had new frames put 
under the when nearly new.  Saw it happen multiple times.  They are fakes, 
or not valuable?  Bull shit.
Taking a run of the mill Cutlass and making it a 442, W31, or Hurst is 
fraud, I agree. But, an extreme restoration of a REAL car is not. If 
Chevrolet had the paperwork for all the Corvettes built and it came out 
there would be chaos in the Corvette industry.  There are more big block 
Vettes around today than they built in the 60's. Many trucks have lost 
their 396's and 427's to Corvette "restorations".  That is 
fraud.  Re-stamping is easily done, and virtually undetectable if the doer 
does his homework. You can buy stamps with the GM style font and go to it. 
Epoxy works wonders on casting numbers.  That is fraud.
Look up restoration in the dictionary.  It means to remake or resurrect to 
as new.  It doesn't say to what degree.

Do up the car Chris, and enjoy it.

Joe Varley
      AZ

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4962
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