
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 23 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4997



RE: Man,brake prts needed/pin falls out?
Cruise in place/Fun or Frenzy
Re: Manual brake parts needed
Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?
UUNBOUNCE: '69 Cutlass trunk molding
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: B-Body spindle conversion gone awry, need advice.
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: B-Body spindle conversion gone awry, need advice.
How NOT to store an engine long-term
'67 98 2 dr hdtp
Re: How NOT to store an engine long-term
Re: '67 98 2 dr hdtp
New 71 heap / smogger era heads and block...
Re: '67 98 2 dr hdtp
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: comp check
Transmission level and leaking through yoke
Date:   Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:54:02 -0700
RE: OT: Return Receipts was - RE: Manual brake parts needed
RE: OT: Return Receipts was - RE: Manual brake parts needed
Excellent car web site
Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?
Re: comp check
Re: comp check
Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?
Re: comp check
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
RE: Stroke calculations
Re: comp check
Re: Stroke calculations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:09:52 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE: Man,brake prts needed/pin falls out?

Hello
Excuse me if i not following along with this proper...but is this again about the pin falling out from pedal to master cyl. ?
A little stainless steel  flanged cup was made for mine with a hole in it for this purpose.Cup(about 1 1/2"deep) is inserted through firewall into inter compartment then master is attached against flange of cup,pin cant fall out. I could take pics again as we did before if needed.
Good luck 
Randy H.
Maple Ditch B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:28:30 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Cruise in place/Fun or Frenzy

Hello
I not sure if anys of yous local peeps have atteneded the Java hut fri. nights recent?
2 fri. ago was outa control as far as i could see,,,many huge burn outs out of the driveway onto the street.
Many police pulling them over at the first light.
Low riders hailing sparks out the rear ect...5.0 stangs pulling U turns in burn outs with police behind them?
Then i guess the kids figured out if they got pulled over on the street they would just do the stand in one place brn out in the driveway beside the coffee hut.
There was a Huge row of peoples on both sides of the cars 5 people or more deep,,the cars were gettting sideways :),,some with cameras and vid would not move away but get closer?
To bring other up to speed, last yr. a girl was killed trying to cross the street where your not suppose to,,,with her boy friend holding her hand running across the street in frt of her.
So we went last fri,surprised there were not concrete barriers to get into the parking lot, sure enough there was a huge police presence on bikes, foot and cars.
Olds content would be the pics...
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1091822051660_0821_001.jpg 
  http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1093047213027_0821_002.jpg 
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1091929340245_0821_004.jpg 
  http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1093465421940_0821_003.jpg 
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1092775602002_0821_005.jpg 
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1094099812750_89600017.jpg
Good luck and play safe.
Randy H.
Maple Ditch B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:34:41 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Manual brake parts needed

> I'm sorry Steve but the PC I use does not give me the option to change 
> this.
> It has been locked down by the network admin staff. I apologize for any
> inconvenience this causes. Also Ron thanks for your info!
>
> Chris
> Chris: it is VERY bad form to have your posts to any reflector, especially
> large ones like this one, set to "Receipt Requested".
>

That's strange. Non of the posts from Chris have asked for a receipt on my 
system.
 I have Outhouse Express set not to return receipts in any case.

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:53:35 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?

> >
> >Assuming they are 15 x 7 they probably started life on an '85 Delta 88.
I
> >agree with George that $50 per wheel is reasonable if they are in really
> >nice shape.
>
> Did any of these come as 15x6 by any chance?  I'd rather have the 7

- ----------------

AFIK, all of the 15" from at least 1977 on were 7" wide.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:51:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UUNBOUNCE: '69 Cutlass trunk molding

Scott's having trouble posting; forwarding.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   "scott renea moss" <renea@sio.midco.net>
Subject: Chrome molding

My wife and I are new members and will be attending the Oldsmobile =
Convention this month and would like to find out if anyone has or knows =
where to get the chrome molding along the bottom of the trunk with the =
trunk key in the middle of the molding.  We have a '69 Cutlass S.  If =
you have any information please e-mail me.  We are looking forward to =
our first convention.
Scott & Renea Moss-OCA #036291

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 02:00:06 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

Anybody around here know the differences between a '77 Delta 88 with 403,
and the '77 Delta 88 Pace Car (which also had a 403)?? Yeah, I know the
Pace Car was a 2-door.

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:25:21 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion gone awry, need advice.

- -------------------------------1093227921
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spacers are dangerous in my opinion, I lost a friend to a spacer/adapter  
made from aluminum, years ago. It broke and he hit a tree, head on. So if you  
make one, be sure you can trust it.
That, unfortunately, is my 2 cents.
 
TJ

- -------------------------------1093227921
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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<DIV>Spacers are dangerous in my opinion, I lost a friend to a spacer/adapte=
r=20
made from aluminum, years ago. It broke and he hit a tree, head on. So if yo=
u=20
make one, be sure you can trust it.</DIV>
<DIV>That, unfortunately, is my 2 cents.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>TJ</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1093227921--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:44:34 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

???

They're the same car.  Interior is red on the pace car, also has specific
red "leather" (they're not leather) door-handle screw covers (instead of
wood burl items)...To my knowledge the 403 in the PC isn't hopped up any
more than your standard 403.

Which is of course too bad, especially if you happen to own one...

At 02:00 AM 08/23/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>Anybody around here know the differences between a '77 Delta 88 with 403,
>and the '77 Delta 88 Pace Car (which also had a 403)?? Yeah, I know the
>Pace Car was a 2-door.
>
>Thanks,
>SteveH
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:45:01 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion gone awry, need advice.

> Spacers are dangerous in my opinion, I lost a friend to a spacer/adapter
> made from aluminum, years ago. It broke and he hit a tree, head on. So if
you
> make one, be sure you can trust it.


If it was a wheel bolt circle adapter, changing one bolt pattern to another,
you have a point. The new bolt circle has wheel studs anchored in the
aluminum of the adapter. The aluminum could yield under extreme stress.
However, a wheel spacer is just that, a wheel spacer between the brake drum
or hub and the backside of the wheel. As long as there is enough thread for
the lug nuts, minimum of 7/16" thread engaged on 7/16" wheel studs and 1/2"
thread engaged on 1/2" wheel studs, and the spacer fits the backside of the
wheel properly (like Ken stated) and the aluminum is either extruded or
forged but *not* cast, there should not be any problem with a simple wheel
spacer.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:23:56 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: How NOT to store an engine long-term

Got 3 engines the other day
One 425 parted out already, block sold, crank sold.

Another 455 was "good running" smogger Toro engine
yeah, 10 yrs ago, when they pulled it out and stored it in a trailer - 
UPSIDE DOWN

Third is another smogger Toro motor. Siezed from bad weathering.

425 crank and rods ok, block ok... C heads, the jury's still out on, not 
badly weathered, the pistons came out easily, breaking only one.

"runner" 455 was stored upside down for oh 10 yrs in a trailer. [no favor, 
if you ask me] Turns out to be 1975 block with 1971 heads, 1973 rocker 
covers. EGR intake. Has been rebuilt, non-stock pistons and timing set. 
Enough rust in 2 cylinders to prevent full rotation. Took the heads off to 
assess the condition. Engine tips, spills oil all over the truck/ ground. PO 
said there was "no oil in them". Grrrrrrr..... Lift, drain oil. More oil in 
the intake. More in some of the cylinders. What a mess. Got that one down to 
short block and heads now. 5 xst bolts snap off. Mouse nests in the 
bellhouse and air cleaner and xst manifold. Intake bolts so badly rusted 
that they must be chiseled loose.

3rd engine is BADLY oxidized on top- was also stored upside down apparently. 
Drain what oil will come out. *10 minutes* of hammering to remove the 
distributor hold clamp- it was that badly rusted. Intake bolts also rusted, 
no longer hex. Just got to the carb removal last nite, have to have pix of 
that, the whole carb body is turned to white dust. Intake is not 
salvageable. Oh, spark plug removal  reveals rust, WATER, gunk, OIL, lots of 
oil, more WATER, etc. This is gonna be a real fun one. Fully dismantled now, 
water froze in one cylinder, lost another F1 455 block over that. STORING 
UPSIDE DOWN IS NO FAVOR TO AN ENGINE regarless of what the old-timers say. 
Crikey. Distributor froze in place real bad, hammering on the drive rod 
moves the shaft out but not the body. It's numbered 1112915, dated 
4D-sumthin, I cannot find that '915 number in the '74  or '74 CSM- anyopne 
know what a 1112915 dist'r is for? Not '951, for sure, have pix.

Anyhow, I managed to save the virgin unpounded Nodular crank and maybe 4 
rods. And maybe a set of fair to middlin' rusted J heads.

What to do? The best bet to actually protect an engine for long term 
storage: Sit it upright. Close all the openings with oily rags and/ or AL 
foil balls. LOOSEN ALL THE ROCKER BOLTS 5 turns, so that no valves can be 
open. That will keep the cylinders sealed. Put some oil in the cylinders, 
and maybe dump a qt right down the intake to make life unpleasant for 
critters that might try to nest in there.

Upside down storage is no solution. Ask me about the 425 that the "clever" 
PO did that for.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 00:00:41 EDT
From: WJone65300@aol.com
Subject: '67 98 2 dr hdtp

- --part1_8d.12f78284.2e5ac5e9_boundary
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Hi all. I might need to reintroduce myself. I'm Will Jones and have been on 
the list for quite a few years, usually in deep lurk mode. I still have my '67 
98 LS that is a low mileage Texas car that I custom fabricated a tow hitch 
for. I have used this car to tow my 16' side console boat up to Lake Ontario for 
the past 6 years, with never a problem, thanks in part to the wealth of 
information gleaned from this list. I have located a '65 Starfire coupe with a '69 
455, B+M shift kit on the Turbo 425, rebuilt front end, rebuilt Q-Jet, new 
brakes and dual glass packs, fairly new acrylic enamel paint, fair interior. Seems 
to have some tuning issues, and I think the guy was running 87 unleaded. I 
have also located a '67 98 coupe with 67K on the odo. Newer acrylic enamel 
paint, duals in good shape, 425 runs as smooth as my 98 LS. Fair rubber, decent 
chrome, interior good, Climatron working!! Brakes may be a problem, peddle is 
squishy but the car does stop. Which car would you OLDS GUYS choose, and what 
would a fair price for the both of them be. I really want a 2 door hardtop Olds, 
and I've always been a full size OLDS GUY! Thanks for your input. Will Jones.

- --part1_8d.12f78284.2e5ac5e9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Hi all. I might need to reintroduce=
 myself. I'm Will Jones and have been on the list for quite a few years, usu=
ally in deep lurk mode. I still have my '67 98 LS that is a low mileage Texa=
s car that I custom fabricated a tow hitch for. I have used this car to tow=20=
my 16' side console boat up to Lake Ontario for the past 6 years, with never=
 a problem, thanks in part to the wealth of information gleaned from this li=
st. I have located a '65 Starfire coupe with a '69 455, B+M shift kit on the=
 Turbo 425, rebuilt front end, rebuilt Q-Jet, new brakes and dual glass pack=
s, fairly new acrylic enamel paint, fair interior. Seems to have some tuning=
 issues, and I think the guy was running 87 unleaded. I have also located a=20=
'67 98 coupe with 67K on the odo. Newer acrylic enamel paint, duals in good=20=
shape, 425 runs as smooth as my 98 LS. Fair rubber, decent chrome, interior=20=
good, Climatron working!! Brakes may be a problem, peddle is squishy but the=
 car does stop. Which car would you OLDS GUYS choose, and what would a fair=20=
price for the both of them be. I really want a 2 door hardtop Olds, and I've=
 always been a full size OLDS GUY! Thanks for your input. Will Jones.</FONT>=
</HTML>

- --part1_8d.12f78284.2e5ac5e9_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:33:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: How NOT to store an engine long-term

> STORING
> UPSIDE DOWN IS NO FAVOR TO AN ENGINE regarless of what the old-timers say.


??????
Outside of salvage yards stacking engines upside down, sideways, on end, and
occasionally rightside up, because they simply don't care, I've never heard
anyone claim that an engine should be stored upside down. Why would anyone
say that? At the very least, all the trash in the bottom of the oil pan
winds up in the bottoms of the pistons and on the cam and might find its way
to a valve seat or two. Not cool.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:38:39 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: '67 98 2 dr hdtp

It sounds like the '67 98 might be more reliable and trouble free. The '65
Starfire has been run hard and fast (that's a TH400). That's why she has
another engine. I would expect to do a little work on the Starfire. I have
no clue as to value.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <WJone65300@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 9:00 PM
Subject: '67 98 2 dr hdtp


> Hi all. I might need to reintroduce myself. I'm Will Jones and have been
on
> the list for quite a few years, usually in deep lurk mode. I still have my
'67
> 98 LS that is a low mileage Texas car that I custom fabricated a tow hitch
> for. I have used this car to tow my 16' side console boat up to Lake
Ontario for
> the past 6 years, with never a problem, thanks in part to the wealth of
> information gleaned from this list. I have located a '65 Starfire coupe
with a '69
> 455, B+M shift kit on the Turbo 425, rebuilt front end, rebuilt Q-Jet, new
> brakes and dual glass packs, fairly new acrylic enamel paint, fair
interior. Seems
> to have some tuning issues, and I think the guy was running 87 unleaded. I
> have also located a '67 98 coupe with 67K on the odo. Newer acrylic enamel
> paint, duals in good shape, 425 runs as smooth as my 98 LS. Fair rubber,
decent
> chrome, interior good, Climatron working!! Brakes may be a problem, peddle
is
> squishy but the car does stop. Which car would you OLDS GUYS choose, and
what
> would a fair price for the both of them be. I really want a 2 door hardtop
Olds,
> and I've always been a full size OLDS GUY! Thanks for your input. Will
Jones.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:48:01 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: New 71 heap / smogger era heads and block...

List:

I am a proud new owner of a 71 Cutlass S. I think this car will be a donor 
for the 442's body, since it came somewhat in baskets and buckets. Body and 
interior are about complete, but the drive train is completely out, rusted 
and scattered... But now to my actual question:

With the car came a bunch of junk that needs to go. Besides the things I am 
sure I can toss, I now have a pair of 3A and J heads. I also have a 350 
bare block from very late, it says 350 on it in cast numbers o the side and 
it has windowed mains! I take it that this stuff is scrap? Anyone disagree? 
I'll haul this stuff off pronto unless you complain.

Cheers, George
71 442 holiday
71 C/S rag
71 S

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:30:12 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: '67 98 2 dr hdtp

Starfires are neat, but it sounds like the '67 98 is the better car of the
two.  A 67k original car beats one that was run hard and put away wet.  You
also get a lot of parts interchange with your LS.  Value is tough to
guesstimate without seeing the cars and knowing more of the local market in
your area.  The summer is winding down, and there would be some deals out
there before stuff has to be stored for the winter.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:21:35 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> Anybody around here know the differences between a '77 Delta 88 with 403,
> and the '77 Delta 88 Pace Car (which also had a 403)?? Yeah, I know the
> Pace Car was a 2-door.

The big mechanical difference is that the pace car replicas  were small
pattern (4.75"), whereas the regular 403 88 used the large pattern (5")
running gear like the 98.  This was done so they could fit superstock wheels
on the pace car replica without making a special run of the wheels with the
5" pattern.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:53:06 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: comp check

okay, but why?

Also remember to have the throttle opened fully when cranking.
john
67 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:42:15 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: Transmission level and leaking through yoke

My 70 442 has been leaving a large puddle of transmission fluid when
parked.  I could not see where it was coming from because it was
everywhere from the front of the pan back to the yoke.   Yesterday, I
cleaned it with gunk engine cleaner and hosed it off.  With the front of
the car jacked up fluid was slowly dripping from the front U joints.
Uppon closer inspection, it appears that the fluid is coming from the
center of the yoke.  Is there a hole through the center of the yoke?
Once I got the car level again the drip stopped.  I checked the
transmission fluid level with the car running and in park.  There was no
fluid on the dipstick.   With the motor off, it registers above the full
level.

I drove the car for about an hour yesterday after cleaning the
transmission off, and when I parked it there was not a single drip.
The car shifts normally and does not slip in any gear.

My suspicion is that my dipstick is not installed correctly and is
incorrectly reading low.  This is possible because I did have the
transmision out last year and I might have not gotten the dipstick tube
in correctly.  When I looked at the dipstick tube it did seem like it
was in all the way, but I may pull it out and inpect it.   Now that I
think about it, I gave the transmission to the trany shop, complete with
dipstick and tube installed.  It is possible but not likely that I have
the wrong dipstick tube.

 

Any ideas?

     mike

Mike Schlottman
Sr. Systems Administrator
Society of Petroleum Engineers
222 Palisades Creek Drive 
Richardson, TX 75083
972-952-9382
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:54:02 -0700
From: "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net>
Subject: Date:   Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:54:02 -0700

Hello, I am Looking for a source of interior upholstery for my 1981 cutlass
T-Top. I am also looking for the optional diesel tach as used in the rally
pack. Any one have one from a gas conversion that they did? Thanks, David

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:42:32 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: OT: Return Receipts was - RE: Manual brake parts needed

>>Chris: it is VERY bad form to have your posts to any
>>reflector, especially large ones like this one, set
>>to "Receipt Requested".
>
>What mail client are you using?  If it's Outlook, there's
>no reason why you shouldn't be able to change some Options
>and uncheck read receipts as a default.

I believe it's also possible, as a recipient, to set your own copy of MS 
LookOut!™ to simply ignore all incoming receipt requests. I had to turn mine 
off not too long ago; I was getting tired of having to educate one clueless 
sender after another that there was no need to have that thing turned on in 
the first place.

I'm not sure whether any other third-party, professional-quality (i.e. 
non-Microsoft) email utilities even react to those read receipt requests, do 
they?

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:06:29 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: OT: Return Receipts was - RE: Manual brake parts needed

>I was getting tired of having to educate one clueless
>sender after another that there was no need to have
>that thing turned on in the first place.

*ack*

Pardon me following up my own post to what's an OT thread to begin with, but 
I want to emphasize that that was _not_ intended as a flame at Chris; I was 
referring to certain nitwits at my own company.

Chris is not a nitwit at my company! He works at a different company!

No, wait, I mean-- Oh, never mind; I'm going to go get more sleep now.  :-)

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:19:36 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Excellent car web site

Check out the Meguiars web site.  Lots of good info and links.  The paint 
care videos are also good.

http://www.meguiars.com/


Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:40:16 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?

At 08:53 PM 08/22/2004 -0400, Fred wrote:

>AFIK, all of the 15" from at least 1977 on were 7" wide.
>

Speaking of these rims in general, with the SS-type ones like I described,
what exactly are the "inserts"?  Are they actually physically separate
pieces?  Reason I ask is that on this vehicle, the black part simply seemed
to be painted on the wheel... and the term "inserts" was throwing me for a
loop.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:50:40 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: comp check

It needs to suck the air in from somewhere, to compress it for the test. I've often seen guys do it with the carb on the
idle stop which can result in an artificially low reading.


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: comp check


> okay, but why?
>
> Also remember to have the throttle opened fully when cranking.
> john
> 67 cutlass supreme
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:10:26 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: comp check

thanks kevin, now that I can understand....
john

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:57:39 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?

Joe,

The insert of the wheel is not a separate piece but more reflects the way
that area of the rim recesses inward.  Here is a picture of one of my 87 442
wheels:
http://maytag87.dyndns.org:8081/rob/87442/87442e40.jpg

You can see the "inserts" are painted gold, along with a accompanying gold
stripe.  All the 85-87 442 wheels are chrome as well, not body color

Rob
Free Olds classifieds and Olds car registry at www.allolds.com
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Vahabzadeh" <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: mid-80s 442 rims, value?

> Speaking of these rims in general, with the SS-type ones like I described,
> what exactly are the "inserts"?  Are they actually physically separate
> pieces?  Reason I ask is that on this vehicle, the black part simply
seemed
> to be painted on the wheel... and the term "inserts" was throwing me for a
> loop.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:51:56 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: comp check

> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:09:00 +0000
> From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: comp check
>
> Open spark plug leads on an HEI can cause internal damage.
> 
> SteveH

Oh, great. I've been dangling spark plug wires for years while doing compression checks. 
What exactly can get damaged? The module, I'm guessing? Seems like the coil and reluctor would be fairly difficult to damage, and the Hall sensor (or whatever is used in the pickup) would be isolated from the high voltage circuits.
And how exactly does the damage occur? There's already a huge voltage flyback due to the charged coil, so does the open lead cause a higher flyback level that exceeds a Zener or other protection device's voltage rating?

Sorry for all the questions, but I work in Failure Analysis of electronic circuits, so it's just my nature to be curious.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:49:10 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

At Monday, 23 August 2004, you wrote:
>The big mechanical difference is that the pace car replicas 
>were small pattern (4.75"), whereas the regular 403 88 used 
>the large pattern (5") running gear like the 98. This was 
>done so they could fit superstock wheels on the pace car 
>replica without making a special run of the wheels with the
>5" pattern.

???????  This implies the Pace Car has 11" front discs instead of 
12"?? Or were 11" the largest until the '80s (and when did they appear)??

I ran across another site last night that said the Pace Car had an 
aluminum hood; but did the replicas also get that hood??

Also, were the replicas equipped with a rallye-gage setup as standard 
or was that still an option as in the regular Deltas? For that year 
of 1977, what would that gage option have been, the three gages installed 
in the lower dash panels as was done during the '80s or gages installed 
within the dash pods ala A-body? None of this was mentioned in the 
other sites I found.

Thanks,
SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:32:15 -0500
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
Subject: RE: Stroke calculations

I'm sorry about my earlier post, I thought you wanted to know the distance
between the top of the piston and the top of the deck at TDC.  I now read it
as you want to know the distance below the TDC piston height at a given
crank angle.

I have an excel sheet with the trig done for this for anyone who's
interested, just plug in your stroke and your rod length.

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Steve Harrison
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 7:02 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Stroke calculations


At 11:46 AM 8/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> Figure out the distance from TDC to the piston at 30* BTDC. Basically,
set
>> timing with a dial indicator gage.
>
>
>Unfortunately, the piston changes speed, and therefore distance traveled,
>during the complete piston stroke cycle. At TDC, there's even a short dwell
>time when the piston is stopped and the rod is changing direction from up
to
>down. So, the speed isn't constant and that makes calculating the piston
>position at 30 BTDC very interesting to determine.
>
>I just looked in my copy of Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets. I didn't find
>anything. Of course, if the engine was apart, with the short block mounted
>on an engine stand, it would be easy to find out. Just rotate the harmonic
>balancer with a timing tape to 30 BTDC and measure the distance from the
>piston top to the block deck. But calculating it, I don't know.

It would comprise simple trigonometry although unless yer Einstein, you'd
likely have to draw the whole thing out from crankshaft to piston-top and
block deck, and calculate the appropriate hypotenuse lengths and the like.
Yeah, 'twud be inneresting alright. Only DaveC could come up with something
like this  ;o)))))))))))

Boy, talk about something to think about while lying in bed, trying to get
to sleep. Definitely better than counting sheep  :o)))))))))))

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:40:38 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: comp check

At Monday, 23 August 2004, you wrote:
>> Open spark plug leads on an HEI can cause internal damage.
>> 
>> SteveH
>
>Oh, great. I've been dangling spark plug wires for years 
>while doing compression checks. 
>What exactly can get damaged? The module, I'm guessing? 
>Seems like the coil and reluctor would be fairly difficult 
>to damage, and the Hall sensor (or whatever is used in 
>the pickup) would be isolated from the high voltage 
>circuits.

The coil. Normally, when the coil's triggered, the plugs provide 
a spark gap that arcs across and thus limits the peak output voltage 
of the coil. With no load (no plugs) on the coil, its output can 
rise to unreally-high voltages that can cause internal arcing, either 
inside the cap across the outside of the coil or even inside the 
coil.

In the worst case, arcing at the coil can get back to the module 
itself. Dust or dirt inside the cap and on the coil are Bad.

>And how exactly does the damage occur? There's already a 
>huge voltage flyback due to the charged coil, so does the 
>open lead cause a higher flyback level that exceeds a Zener 
>or other protection device's voltage rating?

It can. Ever notice that the peak output current specification on 
some aftermarket coils is in the amps range? If you limit the output 
voltage by a spark plug, the coil will then try to dissipate its 
energy with current. That is, when its high voltage output winding 
is unloaded, its output voltage will be at a maximum but when the 
output winding is shorted, the output current will peak. The resistance 
across a spark plug that is firing is very low because of the arc;
the voltage is a minimum.

A "fat spark" is one that is being fed with lots of current; a "weak" 
spark has little current being provided by the coil. Compare the 
spark that results from use of solid wires to that from resistive 
wires; resistive wires will limit the current available to the arc.


This is why, when you're fooling around with an older engine that 
is misfiring occasionally, you're much more likely to get zapped 
when you grab or brush the spark plug wires: the non-firing plug 
allows the coil's output voltage to rise very high, enough to arc 
through deteriorate plug wire insulation. On the other hand, you 
can grab the wires of an engine that is firing consistently and the 
voltage, since it's being limited by the firing plugs, usually doesn't 
rise high enough to break through the wire insulation and shock you.


Notice that until the spark plug actually fires and the arc's plasma 
builds up (which is what causes the low-resistance "short circuit"),
the coil's output voltage is still several hundreds to thousands 
of volts. Thus, bad/deteriorate wires on a perfectly-idling engine 
will still allow an arc through the insulation to yer hand/fingers 
and shock you.

>Sorry for all the questions, but I work in Failure Analysis 
>of electronic circuits, so it's just my nature to be curious.

Eh.... me, too, but as a manufacturing injunear now  ;o(

SteveH



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EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:50:15 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Stroke calculations

Eric,

I'd like a copy, if you would like to send it to me as an attachment via
E-mail, privately. That would be handy for evaluating different rod lengths
and how length affects piston speed.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Stroke calculations


> I'm sorry about my earlier post, I thought you wanted to know the distance
> between the top of the piston and the top of the deck at TDC.  I now read
it
> as you want to know the distance below the TDC piston height at a given
> crank angle.
>
> I have an excel sheet with the trig done for this for anyone who's
> interested, just plug in your stroke and your rod length.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Steve Harrison
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 7:02 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Stroke calculations
>
>
> At 11:46 AM 8/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >> Figure out the distance from TDC to the piston at 30* BTDC. Basically,
> set
> >> timing with a dial indicator gage.
> >
> >
> >Unfortunately, the piston changes speed, and therefore distance traveled,
> >during the complete piston stroke cycle. At TDC, there's even a short
dwell
> >time when the piston is stopped and the rod is changing direction from up
> to
> >down. So, the speed isn't constant and that makes calculating the piston
> >position at 30 BTDC very interesting to determine.
> >
> >I just looked in my copy of Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets. I didn't find
> >anything. Of course, if the engine was apart, with the short block
mounted
> >on an engine stand, it would be easy to find out. Just rotate the
harmonic
> >balancer with a timing tape to 30 BTDC and measure the distance from the
> >piston top to the block deck. But calculating it, I don't know.
>
> It would comprise simple trigonometry although unless yer Einstein, you'd
> likely have to draw the whole thing out from crankshaft to piston-top and
> block deck, and calculate the appropriate hypotenuse lengths and the like.
> Yeah, 'twud be inneresting alright. Only DaveC could come up with
something
> like this  ;o)))))))))))
>
> Boy, talk about something to think about while lying in bed, trying to get
> to sleep. Definitely better than counting sheep  :o)))))))))))
>
> SteveH
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4997
*********************************
