
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, August 17 2004      Volume 01 : Number 4991



RE: 455
455
Re: 455
Re: 455
Re: 455
Re: 455
turbo 400
Switch pitch
455
turbo 400
Switch pitch
Re: 455
Re: oil pan bolt torqueing process
FYA: Cashed the check - ITEM - RACING ENGINE
Re: FYA: Cashed the check - ITEM - RACING ENGINE
Re: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability
Re: 455
Re: oil pan bolt retorque torque number???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:01:02 -0500
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
Subject: RE: 455

I think that alot of the w30 specific parts might be a bit on the pricey
side due to the demand from the "correct" type folks.  Any set of big valve
C-heads would probably be your best bet.  I think I just saw a set of
castings on 442.com for $1-200.  For intakes you'd deffinitely be better off
going aftermarket aluminum rather than the $500+ W30 iron stuff.

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Rick & Roxanne
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:59 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 455


Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 in my 98.  I would
like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
lbs. torque. The old 98s of 1968-71 had 455s that turned out 360 to 370 hp.
at around 450 ft. lbs. torque. I am a pretty good stock mechanic, but
frankly am overwhelmed by all the speed/power stuff, and do not really know
what is good from what is just ok. I still want to stay with a carbureted
engine, because if something goes wrong "I" can still fix it. I would like
to be able to stick with regular pump gas, and had roughly figured that new
pistons at 9.5 to 9.75-1 should work. I would like to make it as bullet
proof as possible, and intend to install headers and dual pipes. Any advise
about what to do along with what to buy, i.e.. namebrands, would be most
helpful and appreciated. Should I ditch the heads that are on it now for
some out of a W30 , or can my heads be reworked in order to breath better.
Thanks.

Rick Messenger

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:46:55 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 455

To get the max return from minimum investment, you 
need a really good crossover exhaust .  And a good 
air cleaner, I use  K & N diesel unit.  Get a new timing 
chain (if you haven't already) and make sure the HEI 
advance is working right.  And put in a switch pitch 
conversion on your (THM400 auto) trans.  That ought 
to get you into 15s around 90 mph 1/4 mile, without 
any economy loss or serious engine work.  Worked 
on my stock 403.  

Bruce Roe

16 Aug 2004  "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net> writes:
> Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 
> in my 98.  I would like to return this beautiful piece of 
> Detroit iron back to it's more powerful roots. Right now 
> this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
> lbs. torque. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:29:53 -0400
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 455

Anyway, start with a BIG double exhaust, hi po mufflers and a H pipe.. you
will feel the change in your seat as soon as you open the gas...remember,
that those 360 were GROSS... not SAE net numbers :-(
Next the cam, I think the 76 cam is short and low - I use now the 214/224-
.472/.496 from PAW usd 49...and it has low end AND the high end as well..
still not totally explorated, not even 600 miles on the new engine
Heads can be pocket ported, cleanned and made better just home - a Dremmel,
o better Bosh electric grinder, carbide bit and some time spent on those
heads... the 461 or 468 will make your car fly to the next redlight
rgds
Matt
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: 455


> I think that alot of the w30 specific parts might be a bit on the pricey
> side due to the demand from the "correct" type folks.  Any set of big
valve
> C-heads would probably be your best bet.  I think I just saw a set of
> castings on 442.com for $1-200.  For intakes you'd deffinitely be better
off
> going aftermarket aluminum rather than the $500+ W30 iron stuff.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Rick & Roxanne
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:59 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 455
>
>
> Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 in my 98.  I would
> like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
> powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375
ft.
> lbs. torque. The old 98s of 1968-71 had 455s that turned out 360 to 370
hp.
> at around 450 ft. lbs. torque. I am a pretty good stock mechanic, but
> frankly am overwhelmed by all the speed/power stuff, and do not really
know
> what is good from what is just ok. I still want to stay with a carbureted
> engine, because if something goes wrong "I" can still fix it. I would like
> to be able to stick with regular pump gas, and had roughly figured that
new
> pistons at 9.5 to 9.75-1 should work. I would like to make it as bullet
> proof as possible, and intend to install headers and dual pipes. Any
advise
> about what to do along with what to buy, i.e.. namebrands, would be most
> helpful and appreciated. Should I ditch the heads that are on it now for
> some out of a W30 , or can my heads be reworked in order to breath better.
> Thanks.
>
> Rick Messenger
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:31:10 -0400
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 455

How much for the switch pitch conversion and where from may I have it...
Matt
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe@juno.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:46 PM
Subject: 455


> To get the max return from minimum investment, you 
> need a really good crossover exhaust .  And a good 
> air cleaner, I use  K & N diesel unit.  Get a new timing 
> chain (if you haven't already) and make sure the HEI 
> advance is working right.  And put in a switch pitch 
> conversion on your (THM400 auto) trans.  That ought 
> to get you into 15s around 90 mph 1/4 mile, without 
> any economy loss or serious engine work.  Worked 
> on my stock 403.  
> 
> Bruce Roe
> 
> 16 Aug 2004  "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net> writes:
> > Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 
> > in my 98.  I would like to return this beautiful piece of 
> > Detroit iron back to it's more powerful roots. Right now 
> > this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
> > lbs. torque.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:49:12 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 455

guys remember its a big heavier car so a  higher lift cam n duration will  hurt it. a mild towing/rv
cam would pull harder with the crapy rear gears. i would use a performer intake shave 1 inch out of
center divider and run a 650-750 cfm carb
ron----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: 455


> Anyway, start with a BIG double exhaust, hi po mufflers and a H pipe.. you
> will feel the change in your seat as soon as you open the gas...remember,
> that those 360 were GROSS... not SAE net numbers :-(
> Next the cam, I think the 76 cam is short and low - I use now the 214/224-
> .472/.496 from PAW usd 49...and it has low end AND the high end as well..
> still not totally explorated, not even 600 miles on the new engine
> Heads can be pocket ported, cleanned and made better just home - a Dremmel,
> o better Bosh electric grinder, carbide bit and some time spent on those
> heads... the 461 or 468 will make your car fly to the next redlight
> rgds
> Matt
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 PM
> Subject: RE: 455
>
>
> > I think that alot of the w30 specific parts might be a bit on the pricey
> > side due to the demand from the "correct" type folks.  Any set of big
> valve
> > C-heads would probably be your best bet.  I think I just saw a set of
> > castings on 442.com for $1-200.  For intakes you'd deffinitely be better
> off
> > going aftermarket aluminum rather than the $500+ W30 iron stuff.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Rick & Roxanne
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:59 PM
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: 455
> >
> >
> > Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 in my 98.  I would
> > like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
> > powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375
> ft.
> > lbs. torque. The old 98s of 1968-71 had 455s that turned out 360 to 370
> hp.
> > at around 450 ft. lbs. torque. I am a pretty good stock mechanic, but
> > frankly am overwhelmed by all the speed/power stuff, and do not really
> know
> > what is good from what is just ok. I still want to stay with a carbureted
> > engine, because if something goes wrong "I" can still fix it. I would like
> > to be able to stick with regular pump gas, and had roughly figured that
> new
> > pistons at 9.5 to 9.75-1 should work. I would like to make it as bullet
> > proof as possible, and intend to install headers and dual pipes. Any
> advise
> > about what to do along with what to buy, i.e.. namebrands, would be most
> > helpful and appreciated. Should I ditch the heads that are on it now for
> > some out of a W30 , or can my heads be reworked in order to breath better.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Rick Messenger
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:50:36 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 455

h pipe x pipe, true dual , car craft did a nice article on exhaust based on a 1972 cutlass i believe
called brooklyn bridgeing the gap. was interesting on what did what
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe@juno.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:46 PM
Subject: 455


> To get the max return from minimum investment, you
> need a really good crossover exhaust .  And a good
> air cleaner, I use  K & N diesel unit.  Get a new timing
> chain (if you haven't already) and make sure the HEI
> advance is working right.  And put in a switch pitch
> conversion on your (THM400 auto) trans.  That ought
> to get you into 15s around 90 mph 1/4 mile, without
> any economy loss or serious engine work.  Worked
> on my stock 403.
>
> Bruce Roe
>
> 16 Aug 2004  "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net> writes:
> > Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455
> > in my 98.  I would like to return this beautiful piece of
> > Detroit iron back to it's more powerful roots. Right now
> > this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
> > lbs. torque.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:56:14 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: turbo 400

16 Aug 2004 "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com> writes:
> Any transmission experts on the list. What are the differences 
> between a 1969 turbo 400 and a 1976 turbo 400.  I'm thinking 
> of switching the transmission in my 69 Cutlass and have 
> come across two transmissions.
> My first impulse is to put the 69 transmission into a 69 car.

Your 69 has a 16 element sprage, much stronger than 
the '76 9 element.  69 has more metal parts too.  76 may 
have plastic spring retainers in the clutch packs, which 
eventually curl up (ask me how I know).  Some later front 
servo pistons were plastic (and break), not sure of the 
year.  

The early 400s had a problem with the center support  
wearing where it rests on the case.  This was fixed 
around 1969 by inserting a .040" protection ring 
ahead of a slightly thinner center support.  

You may notice a few less bolts in the 76 holding things 
like the front pump and valve body.  However this didn't 
seem to be a problem.  The later unit maybe tuned to 
shift at less torque and lower rpm for an emissions 
engine, but these things can be modified with the 
valve body, pressure spring, and governor.  

Check the dia of the output shaft yoke.  Early trans 
(esp the 65-67 switch pitch) may have a smaller 
(1.67") yoke, while later have a 1.89" yoke.  Shaft 
dia is the same, but some are made with an O ring 
for the yoke and some not.  Later tail housings 
use a smaller pair of metric bolts to the trans 
rubber mount.  

The speedo drive gear is usually steel on the 
earlier ones, the later plastic is a lot easier to 
change to get your speedo right.  Note that the 
driven speedo gear support comes in 2 varieties 
(marked), for 40 teeth or less, and 41 or more 
driven gear.  The earlier trans is likely to have 
much different gears to match the axle.

Regardless of mileage, a trans that age should get 
a new set of rubber seals, easy once its out of the 
car.  An old piston seal can get hard and fail to 
seal.  If a clutch pack losses pressure and starts 
to slip, it can burn up and fill the whole trans with 
poison.  A minor repair will become a major one.  
The kit from NAPA is only $20.

The number of plates in a clutch pack (5 or 6)  is mostly a 
function of engine torque/displacement, rather than year.  
The rebuild parts for essentially all years interchange, so 
do most others (plastic vs metal, etc.).  

There is a high flow filter available.  I would also 
put in a drain, to make fluid changes much easier.  
An extra deep pan was also made.  

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:04:15 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: Switch pitch

Can someone describe in laymans terms the diff between switch pitch and not
switch pitch th400.
Please?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:21:46 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 455

The usual way to get SWitch Pitch is find a 65-67 B/O/C 
trans with it, remove the critical parts (mostly front 
pump assembly and converter), and put them into 
your 400 trans.  New converters can be bought with 
custom mods, but you probably need to find your 
own old SWP trans.  A couple of outfits will build 
you a trans.  Lots of stuff about it on the web.  

A SWP conversion bolts right in and is as tough 
as any THM400 trans, slightly better mileage (way 
better economy & driveability than a fixed high stall).
I make an electronic control for the SWP function, 
works a lot harder and better for you than a toggle 
switch.  In a vehicle with marginal power or tall 
gears the SWP may reduce 0-60 by 7% to 10%.  
On a very powerful car, it won't do as much.  

Bruce (every car is a SWP) Roe


16 Aug 2004  "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net> writes:
> How much for the switch pitch conversion and where from may I have 
> it...
> Matt
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <bcroe@juno.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:46 PM
> Subject: 455
> 
> 
> > To get the max return from minimum investment, 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:26:01 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: turbo 400

OK, I forgot to mention.  The 69 will have steel rotating 
seals (which never fail), the later likely Tefl*n (which 
can fail).  Can be swapped out in seal kit.  Bruce

16 Aug 2004  bcroe@juno.com writes:

> Your 69 has a 16 element sprage, much stronger than 
> the '76 9 element.  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:55:51 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Switch pitch

16 Aug 2004  "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net> writes:
> Can someone describe in laymans terms the diff 
> between switch pitch and not switch pitch th400.
> Please?

Since you asked, here is my version.

A 68 up THM400 or 425 trans uses a 3 element torque 
converter, which at stall (vehicle not moving yet) puts 
out about 2 times the engine input torque.  As rpm and 
output speed increase, that gradulally reduces from 2:1 
to 1:1, stretching the useful range of each gear.  So the 
400/425 will easily outperform the old 4 speed hydramatic 
or a 3 speed manual, by providing a wider overall range 
of gear ratios. 

The switch pitch (SWP) THM400 and 425 of 65-67 had 
a torque converter 3rd element (stator) with VARIABLE 
VANE angle, changeable between performance and 
economy (instead of a compromise) as you drive.  This 
gave 2.5 times torque multiplication, a 25% increase.  
It also gave a bit better mileage in the other mode.  In 
a heavy vehicle this can provide a reduction of 0-60 
time of up to 10%, and also give smoother shifts.  

The switch pitch is most effective at getting engine rpm 
into the power range at low speeds.  At maximum rpm 
all torque converters become 1:1 torque transmitters, 
so switch pitch makes no difference here.  It is very 
effective at max throttle, low to medium rpms, with up 
to 25% more torque delivered.   

The SWP is also great stopped at a light.  In the 
loose "performance" mode, it lets the engine turn 
with less resistance, less gas, less creeping.  If 
you were to change modes, the car will walk away.  

Some of us have been busy converting later vehicles 
to get SWP benefits, the parts bolt in if you can find 
them.  An electronic control has been added for max 
benefit.  Read about work on 70s GMC motorhomes 
and other links at 

   http://www.california.com/~eagle/SWITCH.html



To see a picture of a SWP input shaft setup, go to

   http://www.buickperformance.com  

   Enter

  Find article "whats a switch pitch transmission" 

  About the 6th picture "this is the input shaft of a 67 LeSabre"   
  clearly shows the 1/2" long outer splines.  About the 10th 
  picture compares SWP to standard. 

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:34:22 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 455

> I would
> like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
> powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375
ft.
> lbs. torque.
> I am a pretty good stock mechanic, but
> frankly am overwhelmed by all the speed/power stuff, and do not really
know
> what is good from what is just ok. I still want to stay with a carbureted
> engine, because if something goes wrong "I" can still fix it. I would like
> to be able to stick with regular pump gas, and had roughly figured that
new
> pistons at 9.5 to 9.75-1 should work. I would like to make it as bullet
> proof as possible, and intend to install headers and dual pipes.


What you need to do is concentrate on the details to make power as opposed
to using high compression and a big cam. There are ways to do that:

1) Block = complete blueprint including in order: align bore the crank
mains, decking block parallel to the new crank centerline, bore block
perpendicular to crank centerline, final hone done on a Sunnen Cylinder King
or equivalent which will also be perpendicular to crank centerline, and
measure to +/-0.001" the deck height, i.e. the distance from the crank
centerline to the block deck head surface.
2) Engine Oiling = run 0.0035" clearance on the mains and 0.0025" on the
rods. Use full oil groove main bearings with the bottom half of #1 main
being solid without a groove. Rod side clearance is 0.018". Thoroughly
grind, deburr, and polish the inside of the block and heads. Open up all oil
drain back holes to maximum size, with special attention to the interface of
head and block. Paint the entire inside of the heads and block with Glyptal
red electric motor paint. Throw away the sheet metal baffle over the
lifters. Now, the oil will race back to the pan. Use the high volume Melling
oil pump that has provision for bolting the oil pickup to the pump body. Use
either appropriate Milodon bolt-onto-the-oil-pump oil pickup that goes with
either the Milodon 7 or 8 quart oil pan. You're going to use a Milodon 7 or
8 quart pan anyway. Use either the original W30 windage tray set or the
Milodon windage tray for an Olds. Use a very good oil cooler. Use 40 weight
or 15/40 Shell Rotella oil or 20/50 Mobil 1 synthetic. Port out the oil
passage volume in the #5 main cap below where the oil pump sits. Go in with
a good carbide 3/8" diameter burr with a hemi-sphere tip and open up the
passage and smooth away all sharp angles and twists and turns. You want the
oil to shoot through the passage in the main cap in the same way Gen. George
Patton said he wanted to see U.S. Troopers moving
through German resistance, "Like s**t through a goose."
3) Heads = use a stainless steel 2.0" intake and a stainless steel 1.75"
exhaust, swirl polished (S.I. Industries). Install hardened valve seats and
open up the exhaust port and valve pocket for the larger exhaust valve.
Polish the valve pockets. Leave intake passages rough, but polish the
exhaust passages. CC and equalize the combustion chambers and polish the
combustion chambers to a very high luster.
4) Rods = either use the original 455 6.735" rods or use 425 7.0" rods for a
long rod engine with more torque and better breathing via increased
volumetric efficiency. Your choice. Whichever you do, have the rods resized
to exact center-to-center length and install ARP rod bolts, polish the rod
side beams to baby soft smooth and shotpeen to relieve stress. Install
bronze oillite bushings in the pin bore sized to a 0.927" piston pin. Drill
a hole in the end of the rod to help get oil to the pin.
5) Crank = match stroke on all rod pins. ?Thoroughly cross drill the crank
main journals. Chamfer all oiling holes. Grind the crank
10/10, even if it doesn't need it, so that each main and rod journal can be
radiused an extra 0.010". Clevite 77 bearings for an Olds already have extra
chamfer on the edges to accommodate extra journal radius. Polish crank.
6) Pistons = use a custom designed and manufactured forged aluminum piston.
By using the new precise deck height of the block, the combustion chamber
CCs, the new center-to-center length of the rods used, the new exact stroke
value, and the chosen 9.5 compression ratio, design your new ultra
lightweight pure flattop pistons and use 0.927" short pins instead of the
stock 0.980" long pins. The piston pins will now be retained with pin locks
instead of being press fit. Your new full floating piston pins are worth
about 5 HP from decreased friction. (Remember the details.)
7) I would use an Offy 360 Equa-Flow single quad highrise intake manifold
with an Edelbrock/Carter 750 or 800 CFM AFB with electric choke.
8) Cam and valve train = use Crane cam #803901 H-260-2 POWERMAX HYDRAULIC
with Crane's kit. Use full roller rocker arms, Harlan Sharp billet being the
best or the Crane billet. Use pushrod guide plates from Comp Cams and 5/16"
pushrods from Smith Brothers.
9) Ignition = MSD billet distributor with a total mechanical advance of 28°
@ 3000 rpm. With 8° added to the crank, total timing is 36° @ 3000 rpm. Use
a MSD 6A ignition module and Blaster coil. Use Taylor Spiro-Pro ignition
wires, at minimum.
10) Exhaust system = unfortunately, Hooker makes headers for a '75, but not
a '76. Your best bet would be to get a pair of W30 WZ exhaust manifolds and
use them. Run 2.5" exhaust pipes back to good (Flowmaster) free flowing
baffle type mufflers and 2.5" tailpipes. Seriously consider having the
tailpipes as short as possible, like exiting right behind the rear wheels.
Shorter is better for the tailpipes. Use either a "H" or "X" crossover on
the exhaust pipes placed at the cool exhaust point.

At the crank, you could develop an honest 400 HP with 450 pounds of torque
with the above combination.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:15:23 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: oil pan bolt torqueing process

Try lock washers. Ratchet feel just slightly tighter than finger-tight.
(just til the lock washer closes) and the "spring-back" effect of the lock
washer will prevent the bolt from loosening.
============
Factory issue pan bolts have a mildly serrated underside designed to prevent 
reverse rotation when properly installed. Use the factory issue correct 
bolts, there's millions of them in the world.

Have the set of fasteners cleaned and ready to rock before you apply the 
sealer/ gaskets. :-)  Make sure your pan's flange is flat; gently hammer the 
metal around the smaller holes back towards the screw head if previous 
gorilla has over tightened them and bent the metal.

I find that technique is crucial.
You establish the torque level by feel, yes.
You _do not_ tighten all the bolts in a circle from one all the way 
'round... and call it done.
That leaves some loose.
Kinda like how adjusting one string of a guitar throws the others a bit out 
of whack.

I start at the corners, snug down to very light tork with the 1/4" drive 
tool. Just a litte more than enough to touch the pan. Then, do every other 
one [or every 3rd one]  of the fourteen 3/8 drive screws to the same 
not-really-tight level, until all have been tended.

Notice at this point that the 4 corner units are now loose, or... not as 
snug as previously set to. The 14 little guys drew the pan down more.

Repeat the process, corner Fat Boys first and then skip-pattern on the 
smaller units, each time applying a tad more torque, until little or no 
additional turning is required to attain the desired torque. That final 
torque level I have no number on, nor is it really worth putting a number 
on, and chasing that number with a numbered tool [tiny tork wrench]. You can 
feel, if you are attempting to, the serrations on the underside of the bolt 
digging into the paint/ pan. Finger tip action here, these are 1/4" 
screws...

The gasket will be squeezed out a little bit, more noticeable at each bolt. 
If you get more than a little bit on squeeze out, you have something wrong. 
Excess torque or a bad gasket.

For sealer, I like to use Permatex 3H aviation liquid on the whole thing. On 
block, then install gaskets, then more sealer, then the pan. It is possible 
to not use any sealer on the rubber to metal [semicircle ends'] parts... I 
guess. Do not use silicone.

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:30:07 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: FYA: Cashed the check - ITEM - RACING ENGINE

carlinkautos2004@yahoo.com

OK, I got the check cashed yesterday
I will be bringing the racing engine into town later today for shipping 
preparations.

The bank says I might have to wait a week or three to ensure that the funds 
clear ok from the cashier's check.

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



>From: james cole <carlinkautos2004@yahoo.com>
>To: Christopher Witt <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>Subject: ITEM....RACING ENGINE/I WAIT FOR THE INFORMATION ASAP.............
>Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 05:01:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>DEAR Christopher Witt,
>               They said that agent is not parmanently based there in your 
>country, due the nature of their shipping jobs, and right now the agent is 
>almost through with all other jobs that he has over there in your country, 
>so it is very important that we speed up this business much faster so that 
>we can meet up with the time frame that the agent will be spending there to 
>conclude on other pick-up / shipping appointments that they have in their 
>different places.
>
>Unfortunately there had already been so much delay in the past, so my 
>customer is getting very worried because he needs this payment sent to the 
>agent earlier enough, so that he would be sure that the agent would stay 
>back and start making arrangements to finish all the customer's own pick-up 
>/ shipping jobs before he leaves your country.
>
>They have instructed that you try make the payment to the agent earlier 
>enough today, because as the situation is right now, it is most important 
>that we make a financial comittment with the agent, even if it means that 
>we have to make a half part payment first, so that we will have a 100% 
>guarantee that the customer has finally secured a booking with the agent 
>for their required services.
>
>We need you to go and transfer that payment to agent early enough and 
>immediately notify the agent and forward the payment transfer details to 
>agent via his email that i have given you below.
>
>AGENT'S EMAIL - ( sealand_delivery@your-house.com. )
>
>Please do remember that you are also required to forward the agent's 
>payment transfer details to this my own email too, this is very importand 
>for office records and as evidence to show the customer that payment has 
>been made to the agent. You know how these agents do behave sometimes. I 
>would be expecting your mail later today with all the details.
>
>Thanks.
>MR.JAMES
>
><rocketscience442@hotmail.com> wrote:
>OK, I should be able to get that check for $13,300 cashed on Monday.
>Then I can work on getting your excess sent back.
>I might have to send your excess back to him in the form of a cashier's
>check. I have one for $6500 and another for a similar amount.
>
>Say, what parts exactly was I supposed to get ready for shipment?
>I cannot recall... please refresh my memory, so I can start boxing up your
>items.
>----------------------
>Chris Witt
>1303 W. Miller Rd.
>Lansing MI 48911
>
>RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
>Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
>Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> >From: james cole
> >To: Christopher Witt
> >Subject: THE INFORMATION YOU REQUIRED...........
> >Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:08:55 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Nigerian/names_C.htm
> >
> >
> >Dear Witt,
> >
> >NAME - CHARLES. C. HARRIS
> >ADDRESS - 702 N Sam Houston Parkway East,
> >Houston 77060, Texas USA.
> > I wait to hear from you as the agent is waiting to start
> >work.
> >regards,
> >JAMES

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:13:12 EDT
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: FYA: Cashed the check - ITEM - RACING ENGINE

- -------------------------------1092751992
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Chris  


Tell him  you will give the agent his check  ONLY in person,  then crack him 
over the head with a 330 crankshaft!

:)

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Chris&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tell him&nbsp; you will give the agent his check&nbsp; ONLY in person,&=
nbsp; then crack him over the head with a 330 crankshaft!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>:)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:27:22 -0400
From: "Tom Stoner" <tgstoner@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: `82 Toro/Rivy reliability

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 "Mick Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com> wrote:

I've got an 80 Toro that I drive everyday and have never had a problem
with the FWD. Mine is a three speed based on the TH350. . . .
**********
Now granted, it has been many years since I was working at Hydramatic and
making parts for the THM325 transmissions that went into the 1979 and 1980
Toronados, Rivieras, and Eldorados, but my recollection is that this was a
front drive version of the THM200 and not the THM350.  The area where I
worked in the plant made quite a few parts that interchanged into both the
THM200 and THM325.

My own TH325, in a 1979 Toronado, suffered a broken retainer ring groove on
either the drive or driven sprocket for the chain (don't remember which,
because it was 20 years ago), and had to be rebuilt.  That failure didn't
stop the car, although there was enough flex in the chain to allow the
broken sprocket to slide on the splined shaft far enough to rub on the
transmission's rear cover.  I drove it a couple hundred more miles, before
getting it fixed.  And for the fix I took it to a friend's Oldsmobile -
Pontiac dealership because he agreed to have his guys do the repair "for
cost" on a "time-available" basis.  In the meantime, he loaned me a couple
year old 1982 Toronado off the used car lot to drive.  I think I had the
loaner for nearly two months, but certainly didn't mind because it was a
nicer car than mine,

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor
tgstoner@sbcglobal.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:35:21 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: 455

At 06:59 PM 08/16/2004 -0700, Rick wrote:
>Hi, I am looking for upgrade info. on my 76 Olds. 455 in my 98.  I would
>like to return this beautiful piece of Detroit iron back to it's more
>powerful roots. Right now this engine turns out an anemic 218 HP at 375 ft.
>lbs. torque. The old 98s of 1968-71 had 455s that turned out 360 to 370 hp.
>at around 450 ft. lbs. torque. 

Well, my info actually says somewhat less power..... 190 HP and 350 ft-lbs
for 1976... but then again, I think that those numbers were always more of
a guideline than an absolute thing.  If you're getting more than that,
you're already ahead of the game (depending on where and how you're
measuring the power).

BUT . .  you can NOT compare the 1972 and later numbers directly to the
1971 and earlier!!  Up to 1971 the measurements were "gross" horsepower and
torque, which I believe was literally the engine standing alone with
nothing attached, and power measured at the crankshaft.

Starting in 1972 they measured as "SAE Net" which is installed, with all
accessories and the exhaust sytsem attached, and power measured at the end
of the transmission, if I recall correctly.

To wit, take a look at the specs I have at:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/king-v/engine_specs

In particular the lowest-powered 455 in 1971 and 1972.

Both motors produce exactly the same power and are built to the same specs,
but the numbers are very different due to net vs gross measurement.


That said, plenty of other people have offered advice for more power
already, so I'll leave that to the experts.  But I just wanted to point out
the net vs gross power ratings difference.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Grumblatt Jr <wgrumblatt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: oil pan bolt retorque torque number???

- --0-907868489-1092759492=:77502
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- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                                                                                                                 

>>At 11:28 PM 8/14/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>Reasonably hand tight with a 1/4" drive socket driver.
>>
>>Milton Schick

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:17:57 Steve H wrote:
>THERE we go: Milton, too, believes in the "mechanic's feel"  :o)))))

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found I could never use the "mechanics feel" on any import, seems I always broke, stripped or cracked something. I prefer the older "Heavy Metal" oldbiles. If one opts for the "T" wrench, I suggest you look up info your self, AKA Shop Manual.

 I learned the hard way, seems I was given wrong torque specs and I had to replace the rear main bearring cap. It was a $200.00 dollar mistake, machine shop had to make one. While waiting I ordered a manual from Fusiks. This was my first rebuild (and its still runnin) and I will always get a manual when I get a car, So I can sees for myself..

Bill G 

67 Delta 88 Custom, 87 Custom Wagon, seems we needs a 47, since there won't be a 2007.

- --0-907868489-1092759492=:77502
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>
<P>&gt;&gt;At 11:28 PM 8/14/2004 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Reasonably hand tight with a 1/4" drive socket driver.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Milton Schick</P>
<P>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:17:57 Steve H wrote:<BR>&gt;THERE we go: Milton, too, believes in the "mechanic's feel"&nbsp; :o)))))</P>
<P>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P>
<P>I found I could never use the "mechanics feel" on any import, seems I always broke, stripped or cracked something. I prefer the older "Heavy Metal" oldbiles. If one opts for the "T" wrench, I suggest you look up info your self, AKA Shop Manual.</P>
<P>&nbsp;I learned the hard way, seems I was given wrong torque specs&nbsp;and I had to replace the rear main bearring cap. It was a $200.00 dollar mistake, machine&nbsp;shop had to&nbsp;make one. While waiting I ordered a manual from Fusiks.&nbsp;This was my first rebuild (and its still runnin) and&nbsp;I will always get a manual when I get a car, So I can sees for myself..</P>
<P>Bill&nbsp;G </P>
<P>67 Delta 88 Custom, 87 Custom Wagon, seems we needs a 47, since there won't be a 2007.</P>
- --0-907868489-1092759492=:77502--

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4991
*********************************
