
oldsmobile-digest        Sunday, July 25 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4963



Engine needed
Painless wiring
Re: Painless wiring
(rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!
Re: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!
Re: Re-bodied car
Re: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!
Re: Re-bodied car
PB Blaster and MOOG
Re: Re-bodied car (way long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:34:06 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Engine needed

I need a 3.4  V6 for a '93 Cutlass convertible, hopefully on the west 
coast.  Anybody have or know of a good one?  I don't need any accessories, 
just a good engine. I am told they were available in '91 to '95 
Cutlasses.  Have not had a chance to see a Hollanders manual yet.  Will do 
Monday.  They may have been available in other GM cars. A complete wrecked 
car will do too, but must be within 300-400 miles. Not like this is a 
valuable piece or anything.

Thanks,

Joe Varley
        AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:45:27 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: Painless wiring

Anyone successfully use a painless wiring kit for a 67?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:31:43 -0400
From: <DaveS@Atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Painless wiring

I used a painless wiring kit on my 56 Olds, At the time we couldn't find a
wiring kit for a 56 Olds, so we used what was out there, Anyway the best
thing to do is read the book over a few times so you know were all the
wiring needs to go. In reading the book the wiring is numbered and color
coded, so these color's go to the right side and those colors go to the lift
side of the car. It will take you around a week more or less to do a car if
your wiring up the hole car. And Painless also make's a kit to do your dash
also, it's not that bad to do. That will take you a few hours to do, after
your done all you have to do is plug it right in to the painless wiring kit
and your done! I hope I helped you out some anyway?

Dave Smith
DaveS@Atlantic.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: Painless wiring


> Anyone successfully use a painless wiring kit for a 67?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:31:20 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!

So I had an appointment today for a guy to see my Olds at $4k. He was
supposed to be there at 4:00. I called him at 5:00, at which time he told me
that his wife decided that since they were renting a car and driving to Long
Island, they should stop at IKEA. Apparently that "turned out to be a bad
idea" (DUH) at my expense, be he insisted that they were on their way and
would be there in about an hour. So, I called him at 7:00 and they were
actually not far away. About 7:15 they arrived and were checking out the
car, when all of a sudden some guy pulls up, gets out of his truck, comes up
to the Olds and checks to see if the compressor is frozen (hood was open),
then proceeds toward the back of the car, hammering with his fist as he goes
along (to check for Bondo - but he hasn't even said hello yet). So he walks
up to my potential buyer and me and asks how much. I say "asking $5k". He
says quite loudly for all to hear that it's "not worth it". I responded by
saying that I've had an offer of $4k. He then goes into a story about how he
buys and sells these cars all the time and he just bought a 69 Eldorado for
$6k and it's mint and you have to see it to believe it and all of this. At
this point I raised my voice over him and said "good luck with it!" to give
him the slightest clue that A) I don't give a flying sh*t about his
Eldorado, and B) he just totally sabotaged my deal and my entire day because
he's looking for something that he can make a quick profit on and this isn't
it. Two hours each way to get there & back, and 3+ hours waiting for my
buyers to show up, and this guy killed it all in about 30 seconds. Now the
buyer is saying he doesn't know because he's a fanatic about his cars, and
he's going to want it to be really nice, and this car is going to take some
money to fix up, blah, blah, blah. Now he's thinking that for $4k it ought
to be a #2 car. We said we would talk during the week, but I'm pretty sure
the deal is blown beyond repair.

Yes, this is the same car that I successfully auctioned off on ebay. That
guy called me the next day and said he had to back out because he didn't
really have the money. He said "well, you can't get blood from a stone". I
also had a guy send me a $500 downpayment a couple of weeks ago and tell me
that he has a truck scheduled to pick it up next weekend, yet he hasn't sent
the balance. I've tried to contact him a couple of times and he hasn't
responded. Now I'm going to have to call the trucking company that he *says*
he hired and let them know that I don't care what they do, but the car isn't
going anywhere.

Unbelievable. I get the penniless, the unscrupulous, and an unscheduled
interruption by the clueless.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 06:02:39 -0400
From: "Pat Swanton \"swanny\"" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!

WOW.....thats all i can say......
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:31 PM
Subject: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!


> So I had an appointment today for a guy to see my Olds at $4k. He was
> supposed to be there at 4:00. I called him at 5:00, at which time he told
me
> that his wife decided that since they were renting a car and driving to
Long
> Island, they should stop at IKEA. Apparently that "turned out to be a bad
> idea" (DUH) at my expense, be he insisted that they were on their way and
> would be there in about an hour. So, I called him at 7:00 and they were
> actually not far away. About 7:15 they arrived and were checking out the
> car, when all of a sudden some guy pulls up, gets out of his truck, comes
up
> to the Olds and checks to see if the compressor is frozen (hood was open),
> then proceeds toward the back of the car, hammering with his fist as he
goes
> along (to check for Bondo - but he hasn't even said hello yet). So he
walks
> up to my potential buyer and me and asks how much. I say "asking $5k". He
> says quite loudly for all to hear that it's "not worth it". I responded by
> saying that I've had an offer of $4k. He then goes into a story about how
he
> buys and sells these cars all the time and he just bought a 69 Eldorado
for
> $6k and it's mint and you have to see it to believe it and all of this. At
> this point I raised my voice over him and said "good luck with it!" to
give
> him the slightest clue that A) I don't give a flying sh*t about his
> Eldorado, and B) he just totally sabotaged my deal and my entire day
because
> he's looking for something that he can make a quick profit on and this
isn't
> it. Two hours each way to get there & back, and 3+ hours waiting for my
> buyers to show up, and this guy killed it all in about 30 seconds. Now the
> buyer is saying he doesn't know because he's a fanatic about his cars, and

> he's going to want it to be really nice, and this car is going to take
some
> money to fix up, blah, blah, blah. Now he's thinking that for $4k it ought
> to be a #2 car. We said we would talk during the week, but I'm pretty sure
> the deal is blown beyond repair.
>
> Yes, this is the same car that I successfully auctioned off on ebay. That
> guy called me the next day and said he had to back out because he didn't
> really have the money. He said "well, you can't get blood from a stone". I
> also had a guy send me a $500 downpayment a couple of weeks ago and tell
me
> that he has a truck scheduled to pick it up next weekend, yet he hasn't
sent
> the balance. I've tried to contact him a couple of times and he hasn't
> responded. Now I'm going to have to call the trucking company that he
*says*
> he hired and let them know that I don't care what they do, but the car
isn't
> going anywhere.
>
> Unbelievable. I get the penniless, the unscrupulous, and an unscheduled
> interruption by the clueless.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:46:50 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car

I'm going to try this again as I didn't see my first reply come through.

Cris,  Would you repair my 70 or re-body it?  It need everything your car 
does, although at first glance, my 70 looks to be in far better condition.  
Most cars of that vintage are going to need quite a bit of body work to make 
them "right", so are you going to give up on every one of them?

A short list of my needs are, two rear 1/4's with inner and outer wheel 
houses, both trunk drop off's, deck lid, driver floor pan, bottom of both 
front fenders need patched, new seat covers, headliner, carpet, and the door 
panels could stand to be replaced as well.  Don't forget the rear roof 
section I cut out of that 69 parts car, it needs to go in.  Yes, my frame is 
probably in better condition, but is yours really all that bad?  Both 
bumpers need replaced/rechromed too.

Is there anything I missed?  It's always been my contention that the two 
cars were fairly similar in needs, once you got past the initial shock of 
rusted away sheet metal.  We are still going to replace the same parts to 
have the same results, but yours just looked worse at 20 feet away.

Yes', you could rebody, but then that nasty issue of illegal VIN swapping 
rears it's ugly head.  We all know there are probably more W-30's out there 
than should be at this time, so don't add to the confusion.  If you want a 
numbers matching car, either fix what you have or buy something different.  
If you want a clone created from another Cutlass body, find one with a title 
and swap the W-31 parts into it and have fun.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:27:09 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to you!

John, you have the worst luck I have ever seen. Especially for what appears
to be a decent car. I would love to have that thing to cruise around town in
but just don't have the money for it.
oh and by the way, ebay sucks. especially for selling autos. but selling
them any ways sucks too. The reason my barn is full of cars is because I
hate selling them and dealing with people.
Allen Schwartz
A&L Enterprises
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pat Swanton "swanny"" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to
you!


> WOW.....thats all i can say......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:31 PM
> Subject: (rant) Where's a moron when you don't need one? Right next to
you!
>
>
> > So I had an appointment today for a guy to see my Olds at $4k. He was
> > supposed to be there at 4:00. I called him at 5:00, at which time he
told
> me
> > that his wife decided that since they were renting a car and driving to
> Long
> > Island, they should stop at IKEA. Apparently that "turned out to be a
bad
> > idea" (DUH) at my expense, be he insisted that they were on their way
and
> > would be there in about an hour. So, I called him at 7:00 and they were
> > actually not far away. About 7:15 they arrived and were checking out the
> > car, when all of a sudden some guy pulls up, gets out of his truck,
comes
> up
> > to the Olds and checks to see if the compressor is frozen (hood was
open),
> > then proceeds toward the back of the car, hammering with his fist as he
> goes
> > along (to check for Bondo - but he hasn't even said hello yet). So he
> walks
> > up to my potential buyer and me and asks how much. I say "asking $5k".
He
> > says quite loudly for all to hear that it's "not worth it". I responded
by
> > saying that I've had an offer of $4k. He then goes into a story about
how
> he
> > buys and sells these cars all the time and he just bought a 69 Eldorado
> for
> > $6k and it's mint and you have to see it to believe it and all of this.
At
> > this point I raised my voice over him and said "good luck with it!" to
> give
> > him the slightest clue that A) I don't give a flying sh*t about his
> > Eldorado, and B) he just totally sabotaged my deal and my entire day
> because
> > he's looking for something that he can make a quick profit on and this
> isn't
> > it. Two hours each way to get there & back, and 3+ hours waiting for my
> > buyers to show up, and this guy killed it all in about 30 seconds. Now
the
> > buyer is saying he doesn't know because he's a fanatic about his cars,
and
>
> > he's going to want it to be really nice, and this car is going to take
> some
> > money to fix up, blah, blah, blah. Now he's thinking that for $4k it
ought
> > to be a #2 car. We said we would talk during the week, but I'm pretty
sure
> > the deal is blown beyond repair.
> >
> > Yes, this is the same car that I successfully auctioned off on ebay.
That
> > guy called me the next day and said he had to back out because he didn't
> > really have the money. He said "well, you can't get blood from a stone".
I
> > also had a guy send me a $500 downpayment a couple of weeks ago and tell
> me
> > that he has a truck scheduled to pick it up next weekend, yet he hasn't
> sent
> > the balance. I've tried to contact him a couple of times and he hasn't
> > responded. Now I'm going to have to call the trucking company that he
> *says*
> > he hired and let them know that I don't care what they do, but the car
> isn't
> > going anywhere.
> >
> > Unbelievable. I get the penniless, the unscrupulous, and an unscheduled
> > interruption by the clueless.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:14:20 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car

> Yes', you could rebody, but then that nasty issue of illegal VIN swapping
> rears it's ugly head.


I haven't said anything about this issue, because the argument seemed wrong.
As an example, I don't know how many pickups I've seen in my life that were
rolled, smashing the cab flat to the bottom of the windows. The only way to
repair that kind of damage is to ***replace the entire cab and transfer the
VIN tag from the old cab to the new cab***. It's done all of the time. The
tags are switched. Bingo, a repaired truck. The exact same thing applies to
a car. That's what was done when I lived in Missoura, and it's what's done
in Arizona. It simply appears to not be a problem.

So, if one has to replace the frame on his classic car or replace the front
cowl section or even the entire body, do it. Just like Joe Varley said,
that's the way cars and trucks are repaired and rebuilt and restored. In our
case, it's mostly an act of restoration.

One comment about "illegal VIN swapping." In criminal law, both state and
Federal, there is a defining parameter called "intent" or "criminal intent."
If one is running a car theft ring and is taking VINs from junk cars about
to be crushed and attaching them to stolen cars in order to fence the stolen
cars, that's criminal intent, and will put someone in jail, if caught and
prosecuted. However, switching a VIN from a good body to replace a bad body
on your car is not criminal intent. It's restoration and repair.
Furthermore, one isn't switching the VIN by substituting an entire car. One
is just substituting part of a car that just happens to contain the VIN
attachment point. The rules and regulations were never intended to prohibit
or prevent legitimate repair of a vehicle.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 10:11:34 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: PB Blaster and MOOG

Two interesting items I just ran across.

First, Tucson now has PB Blaster available. It seems that Rural Metro Fire
Department decided they wanted PB Blaster to aid in vehicle maintenance.
Since they have a fleet account with Merle's Automotive, they asked the guys
at the main store to stock it. Then, it wound up in the main computer as a
stock item. All Merle's stores should now have it. I got 2 cans from Al at
the East Ajo Road store. My first use, free up the sluggish shaft on the fan
motor on one of our room air conditioners. I've got the unit out, cover off,
and am soaking the shaft. It now turns like new. The air conditioner is
built in such a way that the fan motor is literally integral with the entire
air conditioner housing, with fan blade attachment points on the 2 ends of
the shaft that are proprietary. The manufacturer's intent was that if the
air conditioner goes down, replace the entire thing. I need to fix it,
instead.

Second, I must finally replace the suspension system on the '65 F-85 4-door.
I've only replaced parts as needed in the past, except for springs and
shocks. Now, I need to go trough everything. All the bushings will come from
Energy Suspension, but Al supplied the MOOG ball joints, tie rod ends and
sleeves, the idler arm, and the center link. It took a short while to get
everything in MOOG. It seems that Federal-Mogul MOOG's main warehouse burned
down about 9 months ago. Production is slowly building the inventory back
up, but some items were in short supply. So, if anyone has any problem
getting genuine MOOG parts, that's why.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 15:21:07 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car (way long)

> One comment about "illegal VIN swapping.

According to some PA State Trooper friends of mine.....I have a drawer full
evidence that would land me in jail if they weren't my friends and knew why
all of those cowl tags/vins are stashed there...especially the ones from my
'72 H/O sunroof car....RIP!

They tell me that as soon as you remove a vin or cowl tag.....you done broke
the law!

Speaking of that '72 H/O sunroof vin/cowl tag sitting in my drawer.....I
could have rebodied that car with another Supreme body and replaced the
vin/cowl tags and swapped over all of the H/O specific parts and called it a
restored car, but in my mind there is a time when a car is no longer a car,
but just a rustbucket on life support. When you have to pull the body and
swap tags.....it's time to pull the plug and let it rest in peace. It's
gone....

I've been offered $1,500 for those tags/title and the glovebox.....could I
use the cash? Sure! Am I going to let the tags/title out of my possession?
Not in my lifetime....

I don't understand how anyone could say that I would have a restored '72 H/O
if I swapped the body and frame. The only parts of the original H/O would
have been the drivetrain.....the car that left the factory is gone.

It's a personal thing that each of us has to decide on their own. Just how
much of a car has to be left, before it's no longer considered the car that
was built at the factory.

To me, it's up until the point where you end up swapping tags. Blow an
engine...replace it...you just repaired the car. Needs fenders, doors,
floors and 1/4's.....go ahead...replace them...you just repaired it. Frame
trashed...replace it.....just another repair. Replace the entire body one
piece at a time.....you just rebuilt it.....cost you more than the car will
ever be worth, but you didn't remove the tags. Swap tags.....you just made a
different car.

I know vin swapping happens all the time. A few years ago, I unknowingly
delivered a set of tags from a '70 442 to a well respected local Olds resto
person. Would I buy one of his restorations, should I have the cash and he
has one up for auction at Atlantic City in January.....nope! Not anymore
(atleast not 442, W car, or H/O).....his cars lost all credibilty with me
when I found out what was in that envelope. I'll buy and have bought (along
with sold parts to him) his repro parts, but never will I buy a car from
him. No matter how much documentation he has, I'd always wonder if he made
it or it was real.

I've seen Chris' car in NJ in 2000 also. Chris has that same infliction alot
of us has.....what's the term Don? Vehicular optimism. That's why it took me
almost 3 years before I parted out the H/O rustbucket. I seriously thought
about swapping bodies.....but reality finally hit....it's gone.....let it
go. Part it out to save some other H/O's. Well, that car now still lives in
atleast 6 other H/O's that were in need of missing original parts.

I'll step down now......

Just my .02,
Randy

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4963
*********************************
