
oldsmobile-digest        Friday, July 16 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4953



Re: SX value and performance opinions wanted
Re: Engine ID tricks thru VIN derivative stampings
Fuel gone upon shutdown? 66-442 L69
H/O meet - not for me I guess, such is fate.
Re: dwell meter/EMP/clear dis Mr gasket
EMP kills diesels too, just ask movie producers
Re: Fuel gone upon shutdown? 66-442 L69
Re: EMP kills diesels too, just ask movie producers
Olds 403 from a 1979 T/A
Re: Olds 403 from a 1979 T/A
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Possible method to replace hard-to-find parts?
Autozone $29.99 Olds water pump (WP-455HD & D130-1260P) - the question is answered...
Re: Electric fuel pump install
1978 Olds Omega For Sale in New England
Re: Autozone $29.99 Olds water pump (WP-455HD & D130-1260P) - the question is answered...
Wide Band Commander - any interest?
Re: Electric fuel pump install

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:02:42 EDT
From: James244@aol.com
Subject: Re: SX value and performance opinions wanted

- -------------------------------1089990161
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kurt,
The SX came with a standard gear ratio of 2.56. While they are nice cars, I 
wouldn't pay 442 money for it. They are not 442's in sheep's clothing. I have 
done a little research on the SX and have found them to be a Cutlass with a 455 
& turbo 400 trans and a cutout bumper. They could be ordered with most of the 
442 options, but the drive train is not a performance combination.

If you want a 71 442 convertible, I would wait till you find the right car 
instead of settling for a SX. Cars you plan to keep always take some time to 
find the right car and usually worth the wait.

James Newton
71 442 Droptop
69 442 W30
84 GN

- -------------------------------1089990161
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Kurt,</DIV>
<DIV>The SX came with a standard gear ratio of 2.56. While they are nice car=
s, I wouldn't pay 442 money for it. They are not 442's in sheep's clothing.=20=
I have done a little research on the SX and have found them to be a&nbsp;Cut=
lass with a 455 &amp; turbo 400 trans and a cutout bumper. They could be ord=
ered with most of the 442 options, but the drive train is not a performance=20=
combination.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If you want a 71 442 convertible, I would wait till you find the right=20=
car instead of settling for a SX. Cars you plan to keep always take some tim=
e to find the right car and usually worth the wait.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>James Newton</DIV>
<DIV>71 442 Droptop</DIV>
<DIV>69 442 W30</DIV>
<DIV>84 GN</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1089990161--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:22:03 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ID tricks thru VIN derivative stampings

> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Engine ID tricks thru VIN derivative stampings
> 
> - --0-1322165689-1089899800=:93229
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> >George, your 71 455 would be 31R999999, which break down just like I 
> stated previously, except the R is I'm guessing the Arlington, 
> Texas plant.  
> And of course this number tells nothing about what car the engine 
> was put in or the size of the engine.
> 
> It starts with 1R, here you go 
> http://www.geocities.com/aigel.geo/vinlocation.jpg
> 
> Cheers, George
> - ------------------------------
> LOL, just as I suspected.  George, look closer at the 
> stamping.  closer.  look to the left of the 1.  I can see a 
> 3.  Do you?  scrap some paint away and look because it's 
> there.  So, there you have it.  George provided the evidence, 
> vin derivative stamping on the engine block does begin with 
> 3, just like I said.
>  
> In fact I even checked my 68 455 shortblock and it was 
> 38MXXXXXX (I checked it for a different reason)
>  
> Chris
> grp442@yahoo.com

There was a thread about the VIN pad location on ROP earlier this week, and someone 
posted a picture of the pad with distinctly visible numbers. Here's the link:

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11218&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Notice that the 3 out in front is larger than the rest of the stamped numbers. Anyone care 
to comment on that?

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:30:19 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel gone upon shutdown? 66-442 L69

OK all you experts
This has got me stumped

1966 442 Tri-carb setup
Glass fuel filter / sediment bowl mounted to the oil fill tube, of course.

upon warm engine shutdown, the fuel disappears from the bowl
within like a second or 2. Gone.

Now, ok, maybe it's supposed to run back down the fuel pump's return line
but... how does the fuel get UP to the top of the sediment bowl to get to 
the port?

Perhaps the filter is so fine it allows wicking upwards?

Anyone have one of these, does yours do this too?
I have the original fuel pump, was going to try to fit that on there, see if 
it behaves the same.
Current FPump is whatever AC Delco thing you can get nowadays.

Hmmmm... I see that the manuals say that the TC setup is SUPPOSED to have a 
FPump with 8psi [well, they say "8 lbs" technically, which is not a pressure 
unit at all], like other BB 2-bbl engines of 1966. Whereas, most engines got 
a "6 lbs" pump.

Wonder if that contributes to the surge at constant cruise speed we are 
seeing.

First, I ck for dirt in the carbs, have had that issue already in front 
carb, and we got the carbs from another person, I did not personally got 
thru and ck all their settings and remove all dirt.

Please cc responces to me, as I am slow, and on digest.
RocketScience442@hotmail.com

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! 
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:40:11 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: H/O meet - not for me I guess, such is fate.

From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: out with the old.  in with the .... older

....I'm replacing front brake lines, cleaning and
detailing the tranny and may even install the NOS vacuum modulator I picked 
up
from a friend at the H/O meet this past weekend.
===============
Oh the cruelty of it all

Left Lansing Thursday nite for mini-vacation in southern IL
Passed thru Indianapolis about midnight.
Passed thru on the way back about 6pm Sunday night
Convinced wife to stop by the speedway just in case anyone is still there.

Closed up tight
Access gate to the track locked [no laps for the minivan...]
No H/O's to be seen anywhere.
Got a pic of me at the gate, that's about it.

Chris, any luck on that project I was hoping you could accomplish whilst 
there?
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in 
Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:51:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: dwell meter/EMP/clear dis Mr gasket

> Hello
> Is this the electro cannon we spoke of earlier?EMP=Elec Mega POOF?
> I think thats what those smokeys are shootin at me late nights runnin moon
shine at 100mph.


Yep, it's a continuous form of an electro-magnetic pulse. EMP is also
produced by energized particles from a solar flare interacting with the
ionosphere (which has been responsible for power outages in Canada and the
Northern U.S.) and from the detonation of a nuclear device. Three one meg
warheads, detonated over Utah, Kansas, and Ohio, at 200 miles up (LEO),
would take down every single unshielded electronic system in the continental
U.S. Yes, that was part of MAD during the Cold War for both sides, Mutual
Assured Destruction. The EMP is picked up by the wires in any system, acting
as antennae, and flows downstream to any electronic device in the high
energy spike's path, until the spike dissipates. Those wires include, but
are not limited to, anything from powerlines down to the speaker wires in an
audio system and the small connecting wires inside a computer tower and
inside the monitor and printer. Because there are no circuit chips in a
point/coil/battery ignition system, the EMP can't destroy anything in that
ignition system. The EMP would fry an alternator with internal regulator,
since the regulator is solid state, but an external regulator system should
survive.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:00:55 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: EMP kills diesels too, just ask movie producers

...Also, EMP will *not* stop a point distributor engine using a simple
a coil. EMP will take out any electronic ignition, either stock, MSD, etc.

Milton Schick
================
What?
But, Milton, in the movie "Amerika" they showed how an EMP from a 
nook-ya-lar blast stopped ALL vehicles... even Diesel Trucks...

:-)

I though that was a nifty trick. Interrupt the MECHANISM that delivers 
diesel fuel to the engine? RIGHT....

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! 
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:24:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gone upon shutdown? 66-442 L69

I would say either of the following:

1) If you have a return line on the fuel pump, then the hot engine is
causing gas vapor expansion from the top of the fuel bowls which pushes the
fuel out of the filter back to the gas tank via the return line.

2) If no return line, then there is a small leak in the pump diaphragm that
is causing the same affect as in #1, with hot, expanding gas vapor.

3) However, you have a little surging going down the road, coupled with gas
drainback on shutdown? I would suspect a bad fuel pump with a leaking pump
diaphragm, regardless if you have a gas return line.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:30 AM
Subject: Fuel gone upon shutdown? 66-442 L69


> OK all you experts
> This has got me stumped
>
> 1966 442 Tri-carb setup
> Glass fuel filter / sediment bowl mounted to the oil fill tube, of course.
>
> upon warm engine shutdown, the fuel disappears from the bowl
> within like a second or 2. Gone.
>
> Now, ok, maybe it's supposed to run back down the fuel pump's return line
> but... how does the fuel get UP to the top of the sediment bowl to get to
> the port?
>
> Perhaps the filter is so fine it allows wicking upwards?
>
> Anyone have one of these, does yours do this too?
> I have the original fuel pump, was going to try to fit that on there, see
if
> it behaves the same.
> Current FPump is whatever AC Delco thing you can get nowadays.
>
> Hmmmm... I see that the manuals say that the TC setup is SUPPOSED to have
a
> FPump with 8psi [well, they say "8 lbs" technically, which is not a
pressure
> unit at all], like other BB 2-bbl engines of 1966. Whereas, most engines
got
> a "6 lbs" pump.
>
> Wonder if that contributes to the surge at constant cruise speed we are
> seeing.
>
> First, I ck for dirt in the carbs, have had that issue already in front
> carb, and we got the carbs from another person, I did not personally got
> thru and ck all their settings and remove all dirt.
>
> Please cc responces to me, as I am slow, and on digest.
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> ----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide!
> http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:47:13 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: EMP kills diesels too, just ask movie producers

> What?
> But, Milton, in the movie "Amerika" they showed how an EMP from a
> nook-ya-lar blast stopped ALL vehicles... even Diesel Trucks...
>
> :-)
>
> I though that was a nifty trick. Interrupt the MECHANISM that delivers
> diesel fuel to the engine? RIGHT....


If the Diesel engine uses an electronic controlled fuel pump, it would stop,
but if the fuel pump is a simple electric motor or is mechanical, it'll keep
on going, like an energizer bunny.

Sure, if somebody could generate enough raw power, they could fry anything,
and wind up frying themselves. Fortunately, we can't get anywhere near those
power levels right now.

A good friend of mine calls Hollywood "Whorrywood." He has good reason to
say that.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:59:30 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: Olds 403 from a 1979 T/A

A friend of my is looking for information on improving the performance of
the Olds 403 in his 1979 Anniversary Edition Trans Am.  He wants to keep it
fairly stock looking so no headers or major add-ons.

Can anyone offer any suggestions or point him to a site/list that deals with
this motor?

Thanks,
Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:17:24 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Olds 403 from a 1979 T/A

The 403 is just like any other Olds engine. If he doesn't want to alter the
appearance very much, then a cam and kit and adding a MSD is about it. The
next item would be a better intake manifold. After that, change to a better
carb. Now the only thing left is serious internal engine mods, which would
require headers to get the full benefits.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Bejma" <tomcb@prplastics.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 11:59 AM
Subject: Olds 403 from a 1979 T/A


> A friend of my is looking for information on improving the performance of
> the Olds 403 in his 1979 Anniversary Edition Trans Am.  He wants to keep
it
> fairly stock looking so no headers or major add-ons.
>
> Can anyone offer any suggestions or point him to a site/list that deals
with
> this motor?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Bejma
> Harrison Twp., MI
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:17:18 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

Perhaps I missed it, but what particular part #/application is the oil 
pressure switch? This sounds like a useful bit to have.

krw
On Jul 13, 2004, at 9:11 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:24:40 -0400
> From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install
>
> "The normally closed terminal goes to the ignition lead. That's the
> connection that'll get interrupted if the OP drops to zip."
>
> I've had drag racer friends use the oil pressure switches in that
> manner, to cut off the ignition (and fuel pump) in case of loss of oil
> pressure.  Easy enough to work out with some 12v relays triggered by 
> the
> switch.  I seem to remember one in particular that also mounted a
> momentary push button switch (turns off when released) so that the fuel
> pump could be operated at will when needed, such as to pre-fill new 
> fuel
> lines or carb bowls.
>
> - -------------
>
> "However, how many accidents have you seen where the engine doesn't 
> shut
> off and has to be killed with the key? I've never had a car accident
> where the engine shut  itself off."
>
> Milton, a good example is in a rollover accident.  The engine will
> quickly lose oil pressure if lying on its side or roof, and this will
> kill the engine and/or fuel pump (depending on how the safety switch is
> wired).  Many of the rollover vehicles I look at regularly have
> significant damage (have about 100 miles of an interstate highway
> running through our territory) and could very well have a fuel leak
> somewhere between the in-tank pump and the injectors.  At the very
> least, the engine being cut off immediately upon loss of oil pressure
> should save the engine (have looked at many vehicles over the years
> without engine cutoff switches linked to the low oil pressure sender
> where the vehicle would have been repairable had the engine not
> continued to run and fried the bearings/cylinders).
>
> - --
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net
>
> 1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
>    (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)
>
> 1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
>    (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
>     be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:22:06 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Possible method to replace hard-to-find parts?

An article on Slashdot mentioned a company called eMachineShop:

http://www.emachineshop.com/

I took a look around in there because I'll need to fab up some mounting
hardware for one of my old computers soon, but it also looks like it could
be of use in reproducing hard-to-find parts.  You'd need to create the
design yourself first (possibly patterned after your broken part), and I
doubt that it'd be cheap, but for something that you can't find in a Yarde
or through the usual vendors, it looks like it could be another option for
keeping your Olds on the road.  If it's something that several people
want/need at about the same time, I would think a group order would get the
unit cost down to something approaching reasonable.

The Slashdot article is at this link:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/16/2030222&mode=nested&tid=137&tid=216

  _/_  Scott Alfter (scott@alfter.us)
 / v \ '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:22:25 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: Autozone $29.99 Olds water pump (WP-455HD & D130-1260P) - the question is answered...

OK - here's the scoop.  I ordered the Apora D130-1260P water pump 
(actually 2) off of Autozone's web site about a week ago.  The pump is 
listed as 6.25 lbs, which would have to be aluminum.  I had seen the ASC 
WP-455HD pump on the website for the same price (and same advertised 
weight), but ordered the Apora pumps because it had been previously 
established that Apora was a brand name under which the GMB pumps were 
sold (or vice versa - I forget).  Anyway, the pumps arrived in a rather 
beat up box (one of the water pump snouts was sticking out of the side 
of the box).  The shipping label indicated 27 lbs (consistent with the 
feel of the box).  Opened the outer box, contained 2 ASC premium cast 
iron water pumps, with parts number decals on the boxes showing both the 
WP-455HD and D130-1260P part numbers!  The individual water pump boxes 
are worse for wear than the outer box, and contained the water pumps 
with a gasket and a hose fitting cap (for those people that have heater 
hoses that return to the radiator instead of the water pump).  One of 
the gaskets was torn inside the package form the rough shipping/poor 
packaging.  These "premium" water pumps have the same 6-blade open 
backed impellers as the stock replacement Perfect Circle cast iron pump 
I have in the garage.  They seem to have good solid castings and good 
quality bearings, but I see nothing "performance" oriented about them 
other than the part numbers.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I called GMB North America to make 
sure what the deal was with their 130-1260P pumps - they said they still 
make them, they are aluminum castings, and they also said that Autozone 
stopped buying their pumps almost 2 years ago!  Talk about false 
advertising!

I checked the ASC Industries web site, and they do list their WP-455HD 
pump as a replacement for the GMB 130-1260P, but give no details on 
their pump other than that.

I sent an email to Autozone customer support indicating my displeasure 
with the products I had been sent, the ones that I specifically did NOT 
order, and asked how to return the items (had gotten them on a free 
shipping deal and did not want to pay return shipping).  They stated 
that I could ship them back or return them to my local Autozone store 
and my credit card would be credited.  If I did not have a couple of 
new-in-box cast iron pumps in the garage I would probably keep at least 
one, as they look to be of good construction, but since I was only 
ordering on the premise of receiving the aluminum pumps at an 
exceptional price, I plan to return the ASC pumps to Autozone tomorrow.  
Good thing their return policy is decent.

Only good thing is that the 5664 front springs arrived at my office 
today (but I was oout on the road, so will pick them up tomorrow also).

Bottom line - if you want a good new (not reman'd) cast iron water pump, 
look into the ASC premium line at Autozone.  If you want an aluminum 
one, order from a vendor that still carries the GMB pumps (appears 
PartsAmerica still does).

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:37:55 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

 From certain points of view, I agree with both sides of the fuse 
argument.  I believe that the circuit should be fused close to the 
battery with a fuse at least 5 amps less that the current carrying 
capacity of the smallest gauge wire in the circuit (which should be at 
least 15-20 amps greater that the theoretical current load of the 
powered item), to prevent wire overload and potential fire.  I also 
believe in fusing close to electrical items with a slow-blow  fuse 10 
amps greater than the maximum theoretical current draw of the item being 
powered, to cut off power to the item in case of internal short causing 
excessive current draw.

Milton, I have a very good example of the need to fuse at the source end 
of the wire:

I inspected a vehicle recently (2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition 
Group w/ under 3000 miles on it) which had the interior gutted/ruined by 
fire.  The owner and his friend had installed a stereo system w/ amps 
and subwoofer box in the trunk, and had run a 4-ga power cable from the 
battery, along the right apron, behind the fender, in through the right 
front door jamb and down under the carpet, then on to the rear.  The 
fuse was placed just before the amps in the trunk.  The wire chafed from 
the right front door being opened and closed, and finally rubbed through 
the insulation when the door was closed at a restaurant one night.  The 
owner and his wife came out (after dark) and he noted his keyless remote 
would not open the doors.  He also noted the windows were dark (said 
they looked tinted) but he thought it was just the light playing tricks 
due to the darkness.  He opened the door with the key and black smoke 
poured out.  Fortunately for him, the battery had been drained and the 
fire had self-extinguished due to the vehicle being closed up so there 
was no flash explosion, but the interior was completely ruined.  The 
arcing of the cable to the right hinge pillar and door was like a 
welder, generating localized heat which quickly caught the dash and door 
trim on fire.  The vehicle (worth around $29000) was deemed a total loss 
as not economically repairable.  The only external indication of the 
fire besides the soot-coated windows is the cracked & delaminated 
windshield glass on the right side by the hinge pillar (caused by high 
localized heat).

By the same token, fusing at the front only with a fuse larger than the 
reasonable current capacity of the wiring in the circuit is inviting a 
fire in the event of a moderate-resistance ground or short, where the 
fuse can handle the current load but the wiring cannot.

Just a little food for thought....

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:01:18 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: 1978 Olds Omega For Sale in New England

>From the New England Olds club reflector.... please contact whomever is
listed below, NOT ME!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1978 Oldsmobile Omega same body style as 1969 Nova. Only 1850 cars
produced. have original motor, matching numbers. street/strip
motor and tranny work with dual exhaust and turnout pipes. Has
newer alternator, starter, holley carb, K&N air filter. Car is a
rocket and very reliable. 

Lost my job and need cash so car is being
sold to the highest bidder call Kevin 705-642-3694. Minimum bid of
$1800. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:10:56 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Autozone $29.99 Olds water pump (WP-455HD & D130-1260P) - the question is answered...

Good luck returning them to your local store. When I tried this they had
never heard of anything about the return to store policy. it took two days
before we got someone on the phone who told them t0 accept them. Nothing
like spending two six hour days at autozone. I think they need to put me on
payroll. Then again for what those monkeys get paid it wouldn't cover the
gas I spent
Allen Schwartz
A&L Enterprises
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Ecker" <ecker567@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; <oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Autozone $29.99 Olds water pump (WP-455HD & D130-1260P) - the
question is answered...


> OK - here's the scoop.  I ordered the Apora D130-1260P water pump
> (actually 2) off of Autozone's web site about a week ago.  The pump is
> listed as 6.25 lbs, which would have to be aluminum.  I had seen the ASC
> WP-455HD pump on the website for the same price (and same advertised
> weight), but ordered the Apora pumps because it had been previously
> established that Apora was a brand name under which the GMB pumps were
> sold (or vice versa - I forget).  Anyway, the pumps arrived in a rather
> beat up box (one of the water pump snouts was sticking out of the side
> of the box).  The shipping label indicated 27 lbs (consistent with the
> feel of the box).  Opened the outer box, contained 2 ASC premium cast
> iron water pumps, with parts number decals on the boxes showing both the
> WP-455HD and D130-1260P part numbers!  The individual water pump boxes
> are worse for wear than the outer box, and contained the water pumps
> with a gasket and a hose fitting cap (for those people that have heater
> hoses that return to the radiator instead of the water pump).  One of
> the gaskets was torn inside the package form the rough shipping/poor
> packaging.  These "premium" water pumps have the same 6-blade open
> backed impellers as the stock replacement Perfect Circle cast iron pump
> I have in the garage.  They seem to have good solid castings and good
> quality bearings, but I see nothing "performance" oriented about them
> other than the part numbers.
>
> Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I called GMB North America to make
> sure what the deal was with their 130-1260P pumps - they said they still
> make them, they are aluminum castings, and they also said that Autozone
> stopped buying their pumps almost 2 years ago!  Talk about false
> advertising!
>
> I checked the ASC Industries web site, and they do list their WP-455HD
> pump as a replacement for the GMB 130-1260P, but give no details on
> their pump other than that.
>
> I sent an email to Autozone customer support indicating my displeasure
> with the products I had been sent, the ones that I specifically did NOT
> order, and asked how to return the items (had gotten them on a free
> shipping deal and did not want to pay return shipping).  They stated
> that I could ship them back or return them to my local Autozone store
> and my credit card would be credited.  If I did not have a couple of
> new-in-box cast iron pumps in the garage I would probably keep at least
> one, as they look to be of good construction, but since I was only
> ordering on the premise of receiving the aluminum pumps at an
> exceptional price, I plan to return the ASC pumps to Autozone tomorrow.
> Good thing their return policy is decent.
>
> Only good thing is that the 5664 front springs arrived at my office
> today (but I was oout on the road, so will pick them up tomorrow also).
>
> Bottom line - if you want a good new (not reman'd) cast iron water pump,
> look into the ASC premium line at Autozone.  If you want an aluminum
> one, order from a vendor that still carries the GMB pumps (appears
> PartsAmerica still does).
>
> -- 
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net
>
> 1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
>    (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)
>
> 1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
>    (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
>     be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:25:54 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: Wide Band Commander - any interest?

Just for the heck of it, I contacted Dynojet about their receptiveness 
to a group purchase on these:

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

They list for $529.95 on the web site (ouch!) but this does include free 
lifetime software/firmware updates via website download.  They have a 
nice FAQ section on the website - check it out.

They responded that group purchases are welcome, with the following 
pricing structure:

5 units - $424 ea.
10 units - $403 ea.
25 units - $383 ea.
50 units - $363 ea.
100 units - $345 ea. 

For $345.00 (and possibly a little higher) I personally am interested - would be a fantastic tuning aid.  My thought here is to see how much interest there might be on these lists, and perhaps some of you can forward this email to other mailing lists (Ford/Chevy/Impala/etc) and message boards (ROP/oldspower/etc) you all participate in.  We can see how many people have an interest (feel free to specify "interested at $383 or less" or similar) and then see what we can work out.  If there is a strong interest I will seek out other message boards (possibly some racing boards like 4m.net or similar) to try and put us over the collective 100 unit mark.

Target for the purchase is 60-90 days to give time to round up lots of interested people, and to give them time to save up the money!  Payment is required to be by credit card (although I'm sure Visa checkcard would also be acceptable).  If the credit card requirement is a problem for anyone we can arrange money orders sent to myself and I will issue the payments for those individuals once the money order is received.  If we do this I will volunteer to be the contact point person, so email me directly at ecker567@comcast.net if interested and I will begin keeping a list of interested persons.  Please include your name and contact info, and at what price level you would be interested in participating.

Related question.... can you change the baseplate on a 170xxxxx series pre-CCC quadrajet with one from a CCC era qjet to add TPS function?  Although not required this is one of the inputs that this unit can monitor and would provide tuning benefits to let it monitor this and track/save the data on a laptop.

(And yes, I know the Innovate LM-1 is only $349, but it does not include many of the cables/accessories that this kit does).

Related question.... can you change the baseplate on a 170xxxxx series pre-CCC quadrajet with one from a CCC era qjet to add TPS functionality?  Although not required this is one of the inputs that the above unit can monitor and would provide tuning benefits to let it monitor this and track/save the data on a laptop.

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:23:49 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

At 08:37 PM 7/16/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>By the same token, fusing at the front only with a fuse larger 
>than the reasonable current capacity of the wiring in the circuit 
>is inviting a fire in the event of a moderate-resistance ground 
>or short, where the fuse can handle the current load but the 
>wiring cannot.

I don't think any of us are disagreeing.

Back in the olden days when I had countless ham radio equipments installed
in various cars, I made a special fuse block from clear plexiglass that
also was a junction block to run power wherever it was needed for the
various radios. I used a large surplus 32V,  60 amp cartridge-type fuse. I
did NOT put a cover over the fuse as I couldn't figger out a way to fashion
one that would be easily and quickly removable in an emergency, but I
should have. Large wires carried power from this junction block into the
car's cabin and trunk and there were fuses in the cables at the entrance to
each of the equipment.

If I were to do it again, I'd probably snatch one of the
engine-compartment-mounted fuse blocks from some import and modify that to
run power to each of the equipments. But I'd still use an in-line fuse
close to each equipment solely for individual equipment protection. I might
also consider a single large fuse to feed the new fuse box but it shouldn't
be necessary; a fusible link would work as well and probably would have
less voltage loss.

One thing that folks are not aware of too much: fuses are designed and
built to work properly at low voltage, and at higher voltages. If you look
at the ratings of a fuse, you will ALWAYS find a voltage rating. That
voltage rating is critical. If you should use a 120/240 VAC fuse in a 12VDC
circuit, the resistance of that fuse may be excessive, causing unnecessary
voltage drop and perhaps, because of the fuse's resistance, causing the
fuse to overheat even though it may not be carrying sufficient current to
blow.

Similarly, DO NOT use a low-voltage car-type fuse in higher-voltage
applications. Fuses designed for 120/240VAC applications are designed so
that when the fuse blows, the blown bits of "filament" inside the fuse will
burn back far enough not to allow an arc. Any metalization that forms on
the inside of the fuse's glass tube is supposed to be small enough not to
allow an arc to form.

A low-voltage fuse that blows while carrying much more voltage than its
rating may continue to arc inside the fuse, both allowing current to
continue to flow into the fault, and causing the fuse itself to overheat
and possibly cause its fuseholder to catch fire.

This is why real, honest-to-God "high-voltage" fuses such as are used in
high power radio transmitters, are often several inches long even though
they may only be rated to carry a fraction of an ampere. They're designed
so that when they blow, the "filament" inside them will burn back far
enough that an arc cannot be formed.

ALWAYS use fuses (and circuit breakers) within their voltage ratings.

SteveH

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4953
*********************************
