
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 9 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4981



Re: Ride Height Question
Anyone need a 64 VistaCruiser
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Anyone need a 64 VistaCruiser
Re: Degreeing a cam
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Warped Q-jet
Re: A cutlass for Joe Vahabzadeh
Ride Height Question
Re: Warped Q-jet
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Warped Q-jet
Re: Ride Height Question
Re: Warped Q-jet
DynoMax Ultra Flow Mufflers
Re: Warped Q-jet
Re: Ride Height Question
Re: Warped Q-jet
Re: Hood Spring/Support Color
Re: Ride Height Question
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed
Re: Ride Height Question
Re: Ride Height Question
some things you just can't explain
Re: Buying: thoughts, an Olds vs a non-Olds...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:12:37 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

At 06:55 PM 8/8/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> Wel, I'm no mechanic, but I don't know this procedure, and since my upper
>> bushings are equally bad, I'd love to hear it.
>
>> How are the bushings removed from the control arm?????
>
>
>It's how one beats the flat rate.
>
>Replace one bushing at a time. Remove the nut and cup washer from one end.
>Drive the bushing out with an air chisel. It'll come out. .....
..........
>A mechanic who is real good doing this can install new upper bushings in 1/2
>to 1/3 the flat rate time.

Sounds like I need an air compressor, air chisel and impact wrench  ;o|

Since the upper A-arm's ball joint is held in with rivets (which you drill
out) or bolts, you can renew the upper A-arm altogether without removing it
from the car; cool. It used to be the lower A-arm's bushings and ball joint
lasted a lot longer than the upper's schtuff, meaning you could conceivably
get the car back on the road within a cupla hours.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:17:35 -0600
From: "Tom Atencio" <tom442@comcast.net>
Subject: Anyone need a 64 VistaCruiser

Anyone on the list looking for a 64 Vista Cruiser? I promised a friend I
would try to sell it for her.  Her husband was a mechanic and bought the car
new.  She says he rebuilt the motor but doesn't have any records.  It had an
aftermarket AC unit on it but the compressor is not there now. It has an
aftermarket radio installed.  The interior was re-done with cloth and is
very nice.  Original hubcaps are included as well as some extra VC top
glass.  I tried to talk her out of sinking any more cash into it but she did
anyway with new tires, new brakes and a new exhaust system.  Car runs great.
If the link doesn't work shoot me an email.  She is asking $9K for it.
There is some damage you can see in the pictures on the drivers quarter, and
there is a bubble on the roofline...very smooth even bubble...kinda weird
for rust? Car is located in Denver Colorado.

Tom Atencio
68 442 convt
70 F85
98 Aurora

http://aolsvc.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Start?event=DirectView&shareInfo=K
nVVBplenSPVN5Tl2EsBcR9W71FdSaccro7oofbEJSy%2fjFCnkV3ciA%3d%3d&pageName=Album
ViewFromEmails

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:34:40 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Milton this is how we got to know each other.
 the bushings are designed with elasticity. the sleeve on factory bushings has a pointed crevasses
designed to lock them into the control arm shaft on the uppers. that was why ride height torking was
recommended. it prevented bushings from twisting excessivly and tearing the rubber.
that's how it was explained to me, but every one has there own method. besides poly is better.
Ron
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> > 1965 only thing? I recall most of my CSM's specifying torking the bolts-
> > *all* the suspension bolts- with the suspension weighted. Yes, I have 1964
> > thru 1990 or so versions of the CSM's, and yes, I have read just about all
> > of them just about all the way thru. Are you gonna make me go look up this
> > point year by year and see what the consensus is?
>
>
> Yes, I am. The upper control arms mount with a cross shaft through the
> control arm. It's a completely different configuration from the lower
> control arms. The rebuild of the upper is completely different. It does not
> apply.
>
>
> > Until
> > and unless the forces of use cause the inner steel sleeve to move in
> > relation to the frame that grips it at its ends.
>
>
> Got you. If the inner steel sleeve was locked to the frame, *you would never
> be able to remove the control arm in the future*. It doesn't work that way.
> Also, your statement just inferred the rubber bushings are part of the load
> carrying system, represented by the springs and shocks, and the bushings are
> not and were never intended to be.
>
>
> > I assert again that the bushing's inner steel sleeve is bonded to the
> > rubber, as is the outer steel sheath.
>
>
> Of course it is.
>
>
> > Outer steel ring is gripped tightly by
> > the A-arm [or rear control arm]. Inner steel bushing is gripped tightly by
> > the pinch of the nut and bolt.
>
>
> NO.
>
>
> > Neither sleeve is SUPPOSED TO ever move
> > w.r.t. its attachement point. ALL motion in the joint is *supposed to*
> come
> > from the torsional flexing of the rubber between its bonds to the inner
> and
> > outer steel parts.
>
>
> NO. That's why lcok nuts are applied to the bolts at the factory. By your
> discription, there would be NO requirement for lock nuts, since there would
> never be a chance the bolts could rotate.
>
>
> > Where, then, would you have us believe the rotational motion, required at
> > this joint as the suspension moves, *should* occur, sir?
>
>
> Around the bolt. That's why it has a factory lock nut.
>
>
> > what? If your bushings loosen, you got problems. Are you asserting that
> the
> > rubber is supposed to turn or spin on the inner steel core and/or the
> outer
> > steel sheath?
>
>
> No, I've already said it bonded together on previous posts. You aren't
> reading.
>
>
> > Or, that the inner steel sleeve is supposed to spin/turn on
> > the bolt? That's absurd.
>
>
> Yes, it rotates on the bolt, the movement is very small relative to the
> diameter, it's NOT absurd, and that's the reason for the factory lock nuts.
>
> To further prove the point, guess what, ***poly bushings rotate on the
> bolt***.
>
>
> > Well, no, actually. Usually here in MI it's a Grade-A B*tch to remove old
> > CA's. You have to pry the arm to get it to move more than an inch or two.
> >    THE ONLY MOTION OF THE SUSPENSION IS THAT ATTAINED THRU FLEXING OF THE
> > RUBBER. THERE IS NO BUSHING-TO-FRAME OR BUSHING-TO-ARM OR RUBBER-TO-SLEEVE
> > OR RUBBER-TO-SHEATH MOTION WHATSOEVER.
> >   The bolt is typically rusted solid to the steel inner core of the
> bushing.
> > One part now. Often cannot be slid out or hammered out at all, but the
> frame
> > must be cut or pried apart enough to extract the [now] headless and
> tailless
> > bolt from its grip. The remains of the bolt stays in the bushing, and the
> > entire bushing is replaced. Probably the arm too if the rust is that bad.
>
>
> I guess I've just been real lucky. In Missoura, after removing the 2 bolts
> from the lower control arm, just pull the arm straight out. Just a little
> tug is all that is necessary.
>
>
> > If you have more than the teensiest motion of that bolt, one time, as the
> > suspension settles into use, you got a problem. Alas, the bolt/ nut can
> > loosen even with the teensiest motion of the bolt [if it is more than a
> > solitary instance], thus the special prevailing-torque nuts the factory
> > used.
>
>
> Not with a steel pinch locknut.
>
>
>  {INITIAL INQUIRER: REMEMBER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FELLERS THAT WORKED
> > ON YOUR CAR USED THE CORRECT NUTS DURING ASSEMBLY. -NEW- [PLAIN] NUTS FROM
> > THE HARDWARE STORE ARE _NOT_ BETTER THAN THE OLD FACTORY CORRECT PARTS. A
> > common fallacy among common mechanics who do not understand fastener
> > variations.}
>
>
> One's local industrial bolt supply house can help with any bolt and nut
> requirement.
> > are you thinking of the bushings' ENDS??? That would explain a lot.
>
>
> That's the only thing I've been talking about. The ends.
>
>
> > Where on the rubber bushings? On the ends?
>
>
> For the last time, I've only been talking about the ends.
> > Thus, the arm is tied rigidly to the frame, with the exception of any
> motion
> > attainable thru the *flexing acton of the rubber portion of the bushing*.
> >    THAT is why the bushings MUST be tightened while the suspension is
> loaded
> > [mid-travel]- so that the range of motion attainable [w/o overpowering the
> > friction fit of the inner steel sleeve at the frame and thus causing the
> > sleeve to move and/ or the bolt to turn and loosen]- is within the range
> of
> > motion required as the suspension is used.
>
>
> Then you belong to the school of thought that states the rubber suspension
> bushings are part of the load bearing components of of the front suspension,
> i.e., the springs and shocks. With the bushing acting in the mode you
> described, there will be constant flex of the rubber, the rubber will
> contribute to the resistance of the shock absorber to road forces, and the
> rubber will fatigue and fail in a short time. Rubber can't do the job of a
> hydraulic or gas cylinder. What's interesting is that by your description,
> what are poly bushings supposed to do? Poly bushings do rotate around the
> bolt, period. Poly bushings do not flex. Poly bushings are an order of
> magnitude firmer than rubber bushings. Poly bushings do exactly the same job
> of a rubber bushing, they mitigate suspension flex without having a solid
> steel bushing suspension when the suspension is subjected to road shocks.
> Maybe you should look at the function of the ***steel*** suspension bushings
> in the upper control arms of a '64 A-body.
>
>
> > Soon after that, the car went like 3" sideways [dog-tracking] when I let
> off
> > vs applied the throttle. Look underneath, WHT, a rear [upper?] control arm
> > bolt FELL OUT and the others are loose. So, you see, sir, it matters....
> in
> > some cases, very much so.
>
>
> Sorry, bolt failure for another reason. Didn't use lock nuts. By the way,
> Energy Suspension supplies both Nyloc nuts and lock washers with their
> suspension bolt sets. So does Edelbrock. Both are to be used. There's a very
> good reason.
>
>
> > It appears you are simply confusing the ENDS of the rubber bushings with
> the
> > true gripping surface- their ID and OD, where they meet the inner steel
> > sleeve and outer steel sheath, respectively.
>
>
> I didn't confuse anything. I discussed *****ONLY***** the ends of the
> bushings. Re-read what I wrote.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:54:51 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone need a 64 VistaCruiser

Tom,

When I try to get the pictures, I get this:

"Error

Please Try Again.

We're sorry. An unexpected system error has occurred.

If you continue to receive this message, please send an e-mail to
AOLPicturesHelp."

Yes, I pasted in the rest of the URL that didn't go automatically.

However, without seeing the pictures, 9K sounds a bit high for no factory
air and add-on air that's missing the compressor, add-on radio, damage to a
quarter panel, and a bubble in the roof. I need to see the pictures.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Atencio" <tom442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:17 PM
Subject: Anyone need a 64 VistaCruiser


> Anyone on the list looking for a 64 Vista Cruiser? I promised a friend I
> would try to sell it for her.  Her husband was a mechanic and bought the
car
> new.  She says he rebuilt the motor but doesn't have any records.  It had
an
> aftermarket AC unit on it but the compressor is not there now. It has an
> aftermarket radio installed.  The interior was re-done with cloth and is
> very nice.  Original hubcaps are included as well as some extra VC top
> glass.  I tried to talk her out of sinking any more cash into it but she
did
> anyway with new tires, new brakes and a new exhaust system.  Car runs
great.
> If the link doesn't work shoot me an email.  She is asking $9K for it.
> There is some damage you can see in the pictures on the drivers quarter,
and
> there is a bubble on the roofline...very smooth even bubble...kinda weird
> for rust? Car is located in Denver Colorado.
>
> Tom Atencio
> 68 442 convt
> 70 F85
> 98 Aurora
>
>
http://aolsvc.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Start?event=DirectView&shareInfo=K
>
nVVBplenSPVN5Tl2EsBcR9W71FdSaccro7oofbEJSy%2fjFCnkV3ciA%3d%3d&pageName=Album
> ViewFromEmails
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:05:01 -0400
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Degreeing a cam

Thanks a lot
Matt

> Hard to tell. If yer wanting max performance, a cupla degrees is too much
> but most chains will stretch that much after a few thousand miles. For a
> fambly car/grocery-getter, 10-12 degrees is probly unnoticeable. I'm
> looking forward to getting a new chain/gears on mine and see how much
> difference it makes. As well as it runs now, hard to believe it can be
even
> better ;o)
>
> SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:58:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Ron,

> but every one has there own method.


Yeah, I know.


> besides poly is better.


Absolutely!!!!

All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:16:12 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

you once mentioned another bushing that was better than the poly
what were they. im looking to  replace the destroyed bushings in my chevy k2500 4*4 pick
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> Ron,
> 
> > but every one has there own method.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know.
> 
> 
> > besides poly is better.
> 
> 
> Absolutely!!!!
> 
> All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:55:28 -0500
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
Subject: RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Global West makes a “Delalum” bushing.  I don’t know if it’s better but they
claim it is.  If I remember right it’s mostly aluminmum with some thin
sleeves of non-metallic bearing material to allow for low friction movement.

I also think you can get “poly” bushing in more than one variety, mainly
with or without impregnated graphite.

I plan on doing a lot of suspension work over the winter on my 65 442.  Does
anyone have reccomendations?  Is there any chance of getting this solid rear
axle, big block pig to handle half as well as the BMW I used to have? :)

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of ron fama
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:16 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


you once mentioned another bushing that was better than the poly
what were they. im looking to  replace the destroyed bushings in my chevy
k2500 4*4 pick
ron
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> Ron,
>
> > but every one has there own method.
>
>
> Yeah, I know.
>
>
> > besides poly is better.
>
>
> Absolutely!!!!
>
> All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:14:56 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Poly what? Polyurethane? Polygraphite? Polyester? Polypropylene?
Polywannacracker?

What BMW? What "big block pig"? What driving conditions? There's a good
chance that the answer is no.


- -----Original Message-----

 >Is there any chance of getting this solid rear
>axle, big block pig to handle half as well as
>the BMW I used to have? :)


> All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:22:21 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Ron,


> you once mentioned another bushing that was better than the poly
> what were they.


Not me. I think the poly gives the best of all worlds. Some guys like the
Dul-a-lums from Global West. Now, we're back to your first statement, "but
every one has there own method."

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 00:37:05 -0400
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@connect-one.com>
Subject: Warped Q-jet

- --=======18127C09=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2CC44CBA; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I have a 70 series Q-jet with some major warpage!  Didn't know one could 
warp like this.  The air horn has a nice arch in it.  It's out at least 
.050" at it's worst.  Here's the best part:  The top of the bowl is warped 
to match.

I had figured out a few months ago that the air horn was warped.  It seeped 
just a little gas and the secondary air doors would hang up now and 
then.  I finally got a round tuit and cleaned up a straight spare air horn 
from a scrapyard carb.

Popped the old air horn off to find that it was warped .050" and the bowl 
has the same amount of warp.  They're a matched set. :)

I didn't plan on replacing a carb today so I put the old air horn back 
on.  Looks like I'll be  putting a kit in one of my other junkyard 
Q-jets.  I'll check for flat gasket surfaces next time. :)

Just thought you guys would find it interesting/funny.  I've no idea how it 
happened.  Fire maybe?  I've only had the carb a few years.  It's a $10 
junkyard special I bought and rebuilt for the 350 in my `80 Cutlass 
Calais.  It works very well all things considered;  starts cold, no 
stumble, 18 mpg on highway trips.

.050" air horn warp.  That must be some kind of record. :)

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
87 Cutlass Supreme 4-door
Roanoke, VA

- --=======18127C09=======--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:52:21 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: A cutlass for Joe Vahabzadeh

Joe, there is a decent looking '87 Cutlass Supreme Brougham for sale on 
ebay in New Jersey.  70,000 miles, 307 V8, loaded, no reserve.  It is only 
at $350.00 now, has less than 4 days to go.  I believe you are also in NJ, 
and may want to check it out. Item #  2486606435

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:43:02 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Ride Height Question

You guys and your air chisels.  I have a tool that looks 
like a really strong C clamp.  With a few adapters, it 
just pushes those bushings out and in.  I make up a 
curved piece of 1/8" metal to go around the bushing, 
to keep the A arm from collapsing.   Bruce Roe


8 Aug 2004 "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com> writes:
> Drive the bushing out with an air chisel. It'll come out. Start 
> on the outer rim and work around. You can hit the inner edge 
> as long as you don't balloon it. As the bushing starts to work 
> itself out, place a hydraulic jack under the lower control arm 
> and apply just enough pressure to keep the cross shaft
> centered in the bushing. That will take excessive load off of 
> the bushing, making removal easier. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 01:39:23 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Warped Q-jet

> I have a 70 series Q-jet with some major warpage!  Didn't know one could
> warp like this.  The air horn has a nice arch in it.  It's out at least
> .050" at it's worst.  Here's the best part:  The top of the bowl is warped
> to match.
> > Just thought you guys would find it interesting/funny.  I've no idea how
it
> happened.  Fire maybe?  I've only had the carb a few years.  It's a $10
> junkyard special I bought and rebuilt for the 350 in my `80 Cutlass
> Calais.
Yeah, right, Fire? These things warp just to piss you off!  Seriously, I
cleaned out the junkyards around here for old-style Q-jets and they were all
warped. The only good carb I have came off the 73 455 I bought. You must
live in some kind of junkyard heaven, too! $35 seems to be the magic number
around here...Gas tank? Carburetor? Door? Side-view mirror? $35!! Carbs seem
like they're worth their weight in gold (good thing they're light...)

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:13:17 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

Eric,

> I also think you can get “poly” bushing in more than one variety, mainly
> with or without impregnated graphite.


Impregnated graphite is better.


> I plan on doing a lot of suspension work over the winter on my 65 442.
Does
> anyone have reccomendations?


Use Energy Suspension black poly exclusively everywhere.


> Is there any chance of getting this solid rear
> axle, big block pig to handle half as well as the BMW I used to have? :)


For all intents and purposes, both a '64 and a '65 A-body are identical.

Your car should only weigh 3300 pounds. You can make her corner like a
'vette. You could even match an AC Cobra. Do this:

1) front bushings replaced with black poly from Energy Suspension.
2) front 1965 F-85 air conditioning springs MOOG # 5272 (333 lbs. per inch).
3) front sway bar a 1 5/16" sway bar from Helwig.
4) Energy Suspension front sway bar mount bushings and brackets.
5) Energy Suspension front sway bar end stabilizers.
6) Edelbrock IAS front shocks.
7) rear 1964 to 1966 Chevelle station wagon springs MOOG # 5235 (143 lbs.
per inch).
8) rear sway bar a 1 1/8" sway bar from Performance Suspension.
9) new rear upper and lower extremely heavy duty control arms with black
polyurethane bushings and side braces from Edelbrock.
10) Edelbrock IAS rear shocks (which will also control wheel hop under
acceleration).

Finally, 11) Energy Suspension rear transmission mount.

The cornering performance of your car is now only limited by the traction of
the tires chosen (as mounted on your choice of wheels)and your driving
ability.

Both Thunder and our '64 Cutlass use this suspension set up. The cars will
corner on a dime, and give exact change.

Shortly, our '65 F-85 4-door will get the same treatment.

I have never seen the need to use different late model spindles to change
the front end geometry. The above setup works perfectly.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:15:16 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

John,

Black polyurethane, graphite impregnated.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> Poly what? Polyurethane? Polygraphite? Polyester? Polypropylene?
> Polywannacracker?
>
> What BMW? What "big block pig"? What driving conditions? There's a good
> chance that the answer is no.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>  >Is there any chance of getting this solid rear
> >axle, big block pig to handle half as well as
> >the BMW I used to have? :)
>
>
> > All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!
> >
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:07:05 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Warped Q-jet

> Just thought you guys would find it interesting/funny.  I've no idea how it
> happened.  Fire maybe?

I think with all the ones I've pulled apart & rebuilt, that probably 30-50% have this problem. I've never seen .050"
though ( .010-.020 is pretty common)

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:18:58 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

> You guys and your air chisels.  I have a tool that looks
> like a really strong C clamp.  With a few adapters, it
> just pushes those bushings out and in.  I make up a
> curved piece of 1/8" metal to go around the bushing,
> to keep the A arm from collapsing.   Bruce Roe


Bruce,

If you can use that tool on an upper control arm without removing the arm
from the car, great! I didn't know about it. It sounds like it could be
better than the old way I learned 40 years ago.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:32:40 -0400
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@connect-one.com>
Subject: Re: Warped Q-jet

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At 01:39 AM 8/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>Yeah, right, Fire? These things warp just to piss you off!
>Seriously, I
>cleaned out the junkyards around here for old-style Q-jets and they were all
>warped.

This was the first Qjet I rebuilt.  Didn't think warping could be that 
common.  Didn't know that pot metal could bend that much without 
cracking.  I was surprised the car drove so well when I found out how bad 
it was. :)


>You must
>live in some kind of junkyard heaven, too! $35 seems to be the magic number
>around here...

I've managed to scrounge three  70 series carbs for $10-$15 each.  One at a 
junkyard, two at a scrapyard.  I have a 170 lying around that I picked up 
for $15.  Around here it seems like most people toss the Q-jet for a 
Holley.   Qjets are hard to find, but if you find one, it's fairly cheap.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
87 Cutlass Supreme 4-door
Roanoke, VA




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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 05:08:27 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: DynoMax Ultra Flow Mufflers

Is anyone using these mufflers?

How loud are they?

TIA

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 now running Super Turbos
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:49:34 -0500
From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Warped Q-jet

<< I had figured out a few months ago that the air horn was warped.  It 
seeped just a little gas and the secondary air doors would hang up now 
and then.  I finally got a round tuit and cleaned up a straight spare 
air horn from a scrapyard carb. >>

Some time ago I was helping Sparky inventory his Q-jets (more Gen I 
Toros than you could sikh a sheik at) when he pointed out one with a 
very significant warp. Much more obvious with the air horn off, and 
indeed both the float bowl and the air horn would still seal fairly well 
together.

It hasn't been mentioned where, or what shapes these other warpages took.
This one was warped upward at the front of the float bowl, making a 
noticeable arch over the fuel inlet, and apparently symmetric to the 
long axis of the straight inlet fitting (if it was straight, I don't 
remember).

This quadrajet should also be perfectly useable, if a little weird 
looking with the aircleaner off. The Q-jet float, needle and seat all 
reside entirely within the float bowl and should be unaffected by 
warping at the top of the float bowl and the air horn.
A binding air valve can be cured variously, depending on where the 
trouble spot is.

Proper sealing of warped carbs is not that big a deal either.
There exist float-bowl-to-air-horn gaskets that are double (or treble, I 
didn't have a mic handy) the thickness of the standard ones.
They do, of course cost more than normal ones.

K

When in Washington D.C., do as the Romans do; indulge in worldly 
pleasures, blame the barbarians and praise Ceasar.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:42:14 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

> It's how one beats the flat rate.

- ------------------

<Snip of Milt's excellent description of upper bushing R&R as commonly
perfromed by front end mechanic's).

Milt is 100% correct on this.  I have seen this done countless times in
dealer and independent repair shops.   Works great as long as you can get
the air tools where you need them.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:48:01 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Warped Q-jet

> I have a 70 series Q-jet with some major warpage!  Didn't know one could
> warp like this.  The air horn has a nice arch in it.  It's out at least
> .050" at it's worst.  Here's the best part:  The top of the bowl is warped
> to match.

Not that uncommon.  Some idiot kept over torqueing bolts.  Heating and
cooling
during operation did the rest.  I have several like that.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:05:29 -0500
From: "Bob" <macs63rd@iols.com>
Subject: Re: Hood Spring/Support Color

Dan could you email me
Bob
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Bodine <danbodine@prairieinet.net>
To: OldsList <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 8:29 AM
Subject: Hood Spring/Support Color


> Could anyone confirm the proper paint & color for OAI Hood
Springs/Supports
> for 1970 W31 or W30.  I've seen both light color anodized aluminum and
> darker anodized gray.   Why anodized? Does anodizing make a difference and
> are different springs for the A body different color&spring coefficients
for
> different hood weights?  I've painted mine when I restored my W31 but have
> been told that the color is too light.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Bodine
> 70 W31 4 speed, owned for 34 years
> 71 442
> OCA & IVOC member
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:38:31 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

ball joint tool works just as good as bushing tool.
but lets face it air chisel is faster and uses little effort.
my boss has a bushing remover/installing tool it takes you longer to set it up than it does to r&r
the darn bushings
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe@juno.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:43 AM
Subject: Ride Height Question


> You guys and your air chisels.  I have a tool that looks
> like a really strong C clamp.  With a few adapters, it
> just pushes those bushings out and in.  I make up a
> curved piece of 1/8" metal to go around the bushing,
> to keep the A arm from collapsing.   Bruce Roe
>
>
> 8 Aug 2004 "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com> writes:
> > Drive the bushing out with an air chisel. It'll come out. Start
> > on the outer rim and work around. You can hit the inner edge
> > as long as you don't balloon it. As the bushing starts to work
> > itself out, place a hydraulic jack under the lower control arm
> > and apply just enough pressure to keep the cross shaft
> > centered in the bushing. That will take excessive load off of
> > the bushing, making removal easier.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:40:18 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

was not sure because that was one hell of a debate a while ago,on the entire suspension correct
install procedures.
Ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> Ron,
>
>
> > you once mentioned another bushing that was better than the poly
> > what were they.
>
>
> Not me. I think the poly gives the best of all worlds. Some guys like the
> Dul-a-lums from Global West. Now, we're back to your first statement, "but
> every one has there own method."
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:45:02 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed

yes there's a great chance of it. my 77 cutlass would and did out corner a 1980 corvette, its just a
matter of correct selection on parts. if the car is too stiff it fights you,wants to slide out. if
its too loose in a turn its like being on the ocean, bouncy and wants to use more road than is
available.
Ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Suspension bushing fallacies exposed


> Poly what? Polyurethane? Polygraphite? Polyester? Polypropylene?
> Polywannacracker?
>
> What BMW? What "big block pig"? What driving conditions? There's a good
> chance that the answer is no.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>  >Is there any chance of getting this solid rear
> >axle, big block pig to handle half as well as
> >the BMW I used to have? :)
>
>
> > All vehicles should come from the factory with poly!
> >
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:56:19 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

At Sunday, 8 August 2004, you wrote:

>You guys and your air chisels.  I have a tool that looks 
>like a really strong C clamp.  With a few adapters, it 
>just pushes those bushings out and in.  I make up a 
>curved piece of 1/8" metal to go around the bushing, 
>to keep the A arm from collapsing.   Bruce Roe

That sounds like my kinda tool; whatzit and any pics?

Thanks,
SteveH



===================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:15:07 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ride Height Question

> You guys and your air chisels.  I have a tool that looks
> like a really strong C clamp.  With a few adapters, it
> just pushes those bushings out and in.  I make up a
> curved piece of 1/8" metal to go around the bushing,
> to keep the A arm from collapsing.   Bruce Roe

- -----------------

I use the same thing, but if I was trying to make a living as a line
mechanic it would be air chisel all the way.

Regards,
Fred
>
>
> 8 Aug 2004 "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com> writes:
> > Drive the bushing out with an air chisel. It'll come out. Start
> > on the outer rim and work around. You can hit the inner edge
> > as long as you don't balloon it. As the bushing starts to work
> > itself out, place a hydraulic jack under the lower control arm
> > and apply just enough pressure to keep the cross shaft
> > centered in the bushing. That will take excessive load off of
> > the bushing, making removal easier.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: some things you just can't explain

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2485993674&category=6405
 
item # 2485993674, since I'm guessing pasting the link didn't work
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com

		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
- --0-630407126-1092066888=:40911
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV><A href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;rd=1&amp;item=2485993674&amp;category=6405">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;rd=1&amp;item=2485993674&amp;category=6405</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>item # 2485993674, since I'm guessing pasting the link didn't work</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/50x/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html">Yahoo! Mail</a> - 50x more storage than other providers!
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:02:37 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Buying: thoughts, an Olds vs a non-Olds...

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> Were the trannies on the FWD cars as weak in 1987 as
> in 1986?
Yes.

> Particularly trouble prone?
Yes.  Like 100% failure rate initially.  Some of them were bad right off the car carrier.  Being a warranty clerk at the time, I remember many cars had multiple transmission replacements.  My parents had an '88 3800 Ciera that was pretty good except for "double clunking" into reverse.  We had that one replaced right before the 60,000 mile warranty ran out.  The replacement lasted at least as long.

>  Did they particularly change by 1989?
They started getting the bugs out by then.  By '90 they made a lot of updates and they were pretty good.  My '89 is pretty good, but it has a few "gray hairs" that are starting to show.  Gonna unload it and get a Trofeo.
> Or was my 1986 just a fluke?
No.
Paul
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<html><body>
<P>&gt; Were the trannies on the FWD cars as weak in 1987 as<BR>&gt; in 1986?</P>
<P>Yes.<BR><BR>&gt; Particularly trouble prone?</P>
<P>Yes.&nbsp; Like 100% failure rate initially.&nbsp; Some of them were bad right off the car carrier.&nbsp; Being a warranty clerk at the time, I remember many cars had multiple transmission replacements.&nbsp; My parents had an '88 3800 Ciera that was pretty good except for "double clunking" into reverse.&nbsp; We had that one replaced right before the 60,000 mile warranty ran out.&nbsp; The replacement lasted at least as long.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Did they particularly change by 1989?</P>
<P>They started getting the bugs out by then.&nbsp;&nbsp;By '90 they made a lot of updates and they were pretty good.&nbsp; My '89 is pretty good, but it has a few "gray hairs" that are starting to show.&nbsp; Gonna unload it and get a Trofeo.</P>
<P>&gt; Or was my 1986 just a fluke?</P>
<P>No.</P>
<P>Paul</P></body></html>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4981
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