
oldsmobile-digest       Tuesday, June 22 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4927



Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good
69 Cutlass/442 Duct work
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Re:  Fuel Pump operation
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, weight details needed
Re: Oldsmobiles
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, weight details needed
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Hey guys, I'm Kustomizing it...
Re: Hey guys, I'm Kustomizing it...
4-core in 3-core tanks!
Interior part needed 70 Ragtop
RE: Interior part needed 70 Ragtop
Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good
RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Fellow Oldsmobile men contact me (S.Minore S.Winn)
World's Smallest Oldsmobile crankshaft
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis
RE: World's Smallest Oldsmobile crankshaft
Dash Speaker(s)
Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:56:36 -0600
From: eric <aksoe1@sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good

Well, I've just never had success with High rev's on a mid-70s motor.  I 
know before whenever I raced just for fun, leaving it in Drive always 
whipped holding it in Low and Second to get higher rev's.

Anyone got comments on the best WOT shiftpoint for a 74 455 with J heads 
but a little bit better CAM (Comp CAM rated at 1000 to 5000 RPM, 
Cruising RPM of 1600 to 2000).  Note this is not the high-end horsepower 
Cam grind, and still emission heads.

Thanx again everyone so far, I am packing all this into my head, and 
everything I'm adjusting so far is getting me better mileage and power !!!

Eric Aksomitis

Mike Schlottman wrote:

>Are you saying that it is shifting at 4500 to 5000 at WOT?  If so, this is about right.  3500 RPMs would be a realy low WOT shift point.
>  
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:35:26 -0500
From: "Michael D" <soonerfan_8@msn.com>
Subject: 69 Cutlass/442 Duct work

I am looking for the under dash duct work for a '69 Cutlass/442 reasonable 
priced.  You can e-mail me at soonerfan_8@msn.com

Thanks
Michael 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 03:16:09 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

At 01:55 PM 6/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Steve,
>
>> How do you set/achieve the proper setting for the clevis located on the
>> brake power booster rod (to brake pedal).
>
>> Tips are welcome before I check the service manual
>
>
>Well, without looking in the shop manual, and going by ancient experience on
>building hotrods, with a dry master cylinder, push the pedal down all the
>way to the floor, and adjust the clevis until the master cylinder piston is
>bottomed out in the master cylinder and there's about 1/4" of clearance
>between the back of the pedal and the hard floorboard.

I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go TOO far screws
it up and it requires another rebuild. That's why it's now recommended that
when bleeding brakes, one have a plank of wood placed under the brake
pedal: to keep it from bottoming out.

In the olden days with the older-design MCs, we didn't have that problem,
though.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:10:51 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re:  Fuel Pump operation

> Remember, it does take more engine power to run the 120 GPH or the 176 GPH
> (Chevy - Ford only) Carter mechanical fuel pump than that required for the
> stock mechanical fuel pump.
> ===========
> ????
>
> The more flow, the more work required, [pressure being held constant]
> ==========
> That is no doubt true.
> However, because a pump has more _capacity to flow_ does NOT mean that it
> DOES flow that much... and therefore require more power.


Obviously, I'm referring to the engine at maximum horsepower production at
high RPM where the maximium amount of flow capacity is being used, whether
or not that's at the maximum flow capacity of the pump. Actually, the ideal
configuration is to have the fuel pumping system, whatever it is, sized
about 25% greater than the actual maximum demand of the engine. That ensures
that one should never run out of gas.

However, if one compares a 25 GPH stock pump to a 176 GPH racing pump, it's
going to take more energy (power) to move that larger fuel mass at the same
pressure level.


> the more engine power required to run the pump off the front of the
> camshaft, and the
> more load that is on the front of the camshaft and the front cam bearing.
> ================
> The load on the camshaft is pretty negligible. Power well spent, anyhow.


I know how the pump works, but the eccentric out at the end of the long
fulcrum lever of the actuating arm on the fuel pump is doing work. The more
volume, read mass, flowing through the pump, the more load on the eccentric.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That also goes for
force. Have you ever seen the pad at the end of a fuel pump actuating arm
worn off? I have. That used to be a common failure mode on Holley high
volume mechanical fuel pumps.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:20:37 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

> I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go TOO far
screws
> it up and it requires another rebuild. That's why it's now recommended
that
> when bleeding brakes, one have a plank of wood placed under the brake
> pedal: to keep it from bottoming out.


But it's a simple hydraulic cylinder??? What on Earth could be inside it
that would cause a malfunction on a dry cylinder? For that matter, after
rebuild, the rebuilder had better push the piston all the way forward to
make sure the piston and seals don't stick or there is no roughness in the
cylinder.


> In the olden days with the older-design MCs, we didn't have that problem,
> though.


Somebody would have to show me the difference between a master cylinder made
in 1970 and 2000 before I would believe that. It doesn't make logical sense.

Now, on a modern vehicle with various bake sensors and ABS, I could
understand why during on-vehicle service, it may be a good idea to not press
the master cylinder all the way to the floor, but it sure couldn't matter
during bench service.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:18:04 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

Steve Harrison wrote.....

> >Steve,
> >
> >> How do you set/achieve the proper setting for the clevis 
> located on 
> >> the brake power booster rod (to brake pedal).
> >
> >> Tips are welcome before I check the service manual
> >
> >
> >Well, without looking in the shop manual, and going by ancient 
> >experience on building hotrods, with a dry master cylinder, push the 
> >pedal down all the way to the floor, and adjust the clevis until the 
> >master cylinder piston is bottomed out in the master cylinder and 
> >there's about 1/4" of clearance between the back of the 
> pedal and the hard floorboard.
> 
> I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go 
> TOO far screws it up and it requires another rebuild. That's 
> why it's now recommended that when bleeding brakes, one have 
> a plank of wood placed under the brake
> pedal: to keep it from bottoming out.
> 
> In the olden days with the older-design MCs, we didn't have 
> that problem, though.
> 
> SteveH

Steve,
	Thanks for the reply.  I heard of the 2"X under the pedal from an
old mechanic, stating that when bleeding the brakes on a car with a used
master cylinder, you don't want to beyond the "Normal" path/distance of
travel the pistons & rubber boots make, because doing so would have the
first seal move past sediment built up in the bore of the master cylinder.
	He said that he had seen cars come back to the shop after bleeding
the brakes, needing a master if his mechanics didn't do that.

I can't say I've had personal experience in this, but it sounds logical.

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 04:08:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, weight details needed

At 08:49 PM 6/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>That's what I've been hearing is to change the Governor weights.  So I 
>phoned the Guy who is doing my transmission today to get them changed.  
>He said they only make one size of weight, but they could try welding 
>some washers to it, but he didn't know how much to add.
>
>So, Can I ask:
>1)  Is their somewhere where I buy the heavier weights, or does one weld 
>a washer to them, or reduce the Spring in the governor.
>2)  If one was supposed to add weight, about how much would one add, I'm 
>guessing I want around 3500 RPM shifts at WOT,

That is WAAAAYYY too low.

>(I have 4500 now).

That's ideal. Actually, for my stock 307, 5000 works pretty well.

There were different governors used on different 200-4Rs depending on the
application. For example, GNs used a governor allowing shifts way up there,
I dunno where.

Unfortunately, it looks like the www.gnttype.org web site is down for some
reason. That one had LOTS of 200-4R info. There may be other B*ick sites
with similar info. Try doing a web search for TH200-4R, 200-4R, 200-4R
governor, etc.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:27:29 EDT
From: ShadowForSale@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobiles

- -------------------------------1087878449
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi
 
I would like to make a calander of Oldsmobile cars.Cutlass and  442. 1972 and 
older. If you would be interested in seeing your car in  my calander, please 
submit to _ShadowForSale@aol.com_ (mailto:ShadowForSale@aol.com) 
 
If you include your snail mail address, I will send you a copy of the  
calander :)
 
Thanks
BK

- -------------------------------1087878449
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>Hi</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I would like to make a calander of Oldsmobile cars.Cutlass and=20
442.&nbsp;1972 and older.&nbsp;If you would be interested in seeing your car=
 in=20
my calander, please submit to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ShadowForSale@aol.com">ShadowForSale@aol.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If you include your snail mail address, I will send you a copy of the=20
calander :)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV>BK</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1087878449--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 04:31:34 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

At 09:20 PM 6/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go 
>>TOO far screws it up and it requires another rebuild. That's 
>>why it's now recommended that when bleeding brakes, one have 
>>a plank of wood placed under the brake pedal: to keep it 
>>from bottoming out.
>
>
>But it's a simple hydraulic cylinder??? What on Earth could be 
>inside it that would cause a malfunction on a dry cylinder?

IIRC, the MCs I'm speaking of have valves built into them, or something
like that. I've not bothered to look into them to find the exactly mechanism.

>Somebody would have to show me the difference between a master 
>cylinder made in 1970 and 2000 before I would believe that. It 
>doesn't make logical sense.

Someone else will have to do that; master cylinders have never been one of
my favorite subjects of study  ;o\

>Now, on a modern vehicle with various bake sensors and ABS, I 
>could understand why during on-vehicle service, it may be a good 
>idea to not press the master cylinder all the way to the floor, 
>but it sure couldn't matter during bench service.

Got me, Charlie  ;o\ I was just passing on what I'd been told by guys
installing new MCs into their '80s vehicles.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 04:37:10 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

At 11:18 PM 6/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Steve,
>Thanks for the reply.  I heard of the 2"X under the pedal from 
>an old mechanic, stating that when bleeding the brakes on a car 
>with a used master cylinder, you don't want to beyond the "Normal" 
>path/distance of travel the pistons & rubber boots make, because 
>doing so would have the first seal move past sediment built up 
>in the bore of the master cylinder.
>He said that he had seen cars come back to the shop after bleeding
>the brakes, needing a master if his mechanics didn't do that.

Ah yes, that's what it was.

>I can't say I've had personal experience in this, but it sounds 
>logical.

I used to go all the way to the floor up to about 4 years ago when I got
back into cars and joined all these reflectors. Never had to replace any of
my own MCs but I do know the one in my BBA isn't in great shape. Of course,
it's got 235K miles on it, lots of use, probly due for rebuilding.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:46:23 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, weight details needed

Eric,

> That's what I've been hearing is to change the Governor weights.  So I
> phoned the Guy who is doing my transmission today to get them changed.
> He said they only make one size of weight, but they could try welding
> some washers to it, but he didn't know how much to add.


I don't think you want your transmission guy doing this.


> 1)  Is their somewhere where I buy the heavier weights, or does one weld
> a washer to them, or reduce the Spring in the governor.


It wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn the stock governor weights for a
stock engine and transmission have a WOT shift point of 4500 RPM. That
should be normal.


> 2)  If one was supposed to add weight, about how much would one add, I'm
> guessing I want around 3500 RPM shifts at WOT, but I really don't know
> (I have 4500 now).


Why would you want the engine to rev to only 3500 at WOT before the trans
automatically shifted??? With the shift kit in your trans, am I correct in
assuming that if you hold the trans in second, it will not shift out until
you move the lever to third, as an example???


> Well, I've just never had success with High rev's on a mid-70s motor.


Huh????


> I know before whenever I raced just for fun, leaving it in Drive always
> whipped holding it in Low and Second to get higher rev's.


That only applies to a stock trans. Didn't you say that you had a shift kit
installed? If so, by manually shifting your automatic trans, you now have a
4-speed manual that doesn't use a clutch...that's how well it will work!


> Anyone got comments on the best WOT shiftpoint for a 74 455 with J heads
> but a little bit better CAM (Comp CAM rated at 1000 to 5000 RPM,
> Cruising RPM of 1600 to 2000).  Note this is not the high-end horsepower
> Cam grind, and still emission heads.


You just answered your own question. If you are using a cam that will work
to 5000 RPM, then your WOT shift point should now be 5000 RPM. Otherwise,
you should have used a smaller cam, for you would be wasting the upper end
of the cam's capability.

The way your trans is set now, I would believe your shift point at 3/4
throttle would be at around 3500 RPM. There, you've already got it. Regulate
the automatic shifting with your foot. Then, when that Mustang comes up
beside you and you want to nail him to the pavement, you've got the
capability to do it.

The following are the revs limits for second generation Olds engines:

Any cast iron crank engine = 5500 RPM MAXIMUM.
Any nodular iron crank engine = 6000 RPM MAXIMUM.
455 or long stroke 400 with a forged steel crank = 7000 RPM MAXIMUM.
425 or short stroke 400 with a forged steel crank = 7500 RPM MAXIMUM.
330 or 350 with a forged steel crank = 8000 RPM MAXIMUM.
403 with a forged steel crank = 6000 RPM MAXIMUM.

I'm not sure whether or not your '74 455 has a nodular iron crank or a cast
crank. If nodular, she's safe to 6000 RPM. If cast, only 5500 RPM. 5000 RPM
is no sweat and 4500 RPM is nothing.

I'd leave your trans alone and drive your car.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:52:39 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

> because doing so would have the
> first seal move past sediment built up in the bore of the master cylinder.
> He said that he had seen cars come back to the shop after bleeding
> the brakes, needing a master if his mechanics didn't do that.


Yeah, if the car had 100K on it, if the brake system had never been
serviced, and if somebody allowed dirt to get in the system, otherwise, it's
a closed system and any residue should get pushed to the wheel cylinders,
contributing to the occasional leaking wheel cylinder.

But Steve, isn't your master cylinder either new or barely used???

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 01:24:56 -0400
From: AnTiCr0mBi@aol.com
Subject: Hey guys, I'm Kustomizing it...

Gone are the 16" GTA wheels and modified '64 caps. On now are 15" steelies, and just so I could never put the 16"s back on, it got lowered 1.5 coils in the front and 1 in the rear. Finish the bodywork, shave the Olds letters on the hood and the Cutlass scripts on the side, eventually paint it a bit raspberry-er than candy apple red, and have the wheels chromed.

Don't worry though, since eventually I'll own numerous '64 Cutlass' I'll make another into my badass road racing verison.

Before lowering:
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/oldspics/steely8.JPG

After lowering:
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering9.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering10.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering12.JPG

- -Eric Anderson
Denton, Tx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:51:48 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Hey guys, I'm Kustomizing it...

Eric,

I noticed that you have the tailpipe on the left side coming out at an angle
right behind the rear tire. Was there anything in the way to get it bent
correctly to exit that way?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <AnTiCr0mBi@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Hey guys, I'm Kustomizing it...


> Gone are the 16" GTA wheels and modified '64 caps. On now are 15"
steelies, and just so I could never put the 16"s back on, it got lowered 1.5
coils in the front and 1 in the rear. Finish the bodywork, shave the Olds
letters on the hood and the Cutlass scripts on the side, eventually paint it
a bit raspberry-er than candy apple red, and have the wheels chromed.
>
> Don't worry though, since eventually I'll own numerous '64 Cutlass' I'll
make another into my badass road racing verison.
>
> Before lowering:
> http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/oldspics/steely8.JPG
>
> After lowering:
> http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering9.JPG
> http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering10.JPG
> http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/lowering12.JPG
>
> -Eric Anderson
> Denton, Tx
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 01:08:19 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 4-core in 3-core tanks!

I tried one of those many years ago, but it eventually came 
apart/leaked.  Better to just add 5/8" to your mounts and put 
in a real 4 row, they are not that much more.  

Bruce (all 4 row) Roe


> > Last summer I had my original 3 core radiator re-cored with a 
> > high efficiency core. It has four rows of tubes, with more 
> > tubes per row than the original, and a higher fin-per-inch 
> > count. So it's the cooling of a high efficiency 4 core in a 3 
> > core package. 

> > Kenneth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:01:46 EDT
From: Roncutlass@aol.com
Subject: Interior part needed 70 Ragtop

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thought I'd post this one more time.  Anyone know of a 70-72 Supreme Convert. 
with the rear interior door/side panals?  The tops of mine are badly 
deterioriated and I'm re-upholstering them and just need the top back pieces?  Anyone 
ever try and repair them??
Thanks, please reply to roncutlass@aol.com if possible.    Ron

- -------------------------------1087909306
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Thought I'd post this one more time.&nbsp; Anyone know of a 70-72 Supre=
me Convert. with the rear interior door/side panals?&nbsp; The tops of mine=20=
are badly deterioriated and I'm re-upholstering them and just need the top b=
ack pieces?&nbsp; Anyone ever try and repair them??</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, please reply to <A href=3D"mailto:roncutlass@aol.com">roncutlas=
s@aol.com</A> if possible.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ron</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:54:29 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: Interior part needed 70 Ragtop

Ron,

+++[ORIGINAL TEXT]++++	
	Thought I'd post this one more time.  Anyone know of a 70-72 Supreme
Convert. with the rear interior door/side panals?  The tops of mine are
badly deterioriated and I'm re-upholstering them and just need the top back
pieces?  Anyone ever try and repair them??
	Thanks, please reply to roncutlass@aol.com if possible.    Ron
++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I'm in the process of acquiring the exact car I need; a 1970 C/S
'Ragtop.  The car is stripped of the engine, bumpers, gauges, and some other
components.
    It has a white Interior, and the ragtop MATL. is completely missing, so
it has been sitting out in the Texas sun for years.
 
As soon as I can get this car, I'll let you know.  Are you looking for white
interior items?
 
Stay in touch with me off-line, for details.
 
Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com <http://www.sreed.0catch.com/>  

	
	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:17:26 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good

At 08:56 PM 06/21/2004 -0600, eric wrote:
>Anyone got comments on the best WOT shiftpoint for a 74 455 with J heads 
>but a little bit better CAM (Comp CAM rated at 1000 to 5000 RPM, 
>Cruising RPM of 1600 to 2000).  Note this is not the high-end horsepower 
>Cam grind, and still emission heads.

Well, assuming you have dual exhaust, my ratings for STOCK 455 engines in
1974 are as follows:


Engine					HP			Torque
- ------------				------------		--------------
455 single exhaust (T code)	215 @ 3600		350 @ 2400
455 dual exhaust (U code)		250 @ 4000		370 @ 2800

If I'm not mistaken, the U code is identical to the T code except for the
dual exhaust system.

Now, you've got a slightly better cam.  I would probably guess that peak
horse might be in the 4500 or so range, so you'd want it to shift there or
sligtly higher at WOT.

HOWEVER, if it feels like it's losing power before hitting that RPM, I'd
guess you have some sort of fuel delivery or ignition issues going on when
you get to the 4000 or so RPM range for some reason.  Fuel pump and fuel
lines okay?  How's the distributor?


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:34:22 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

Milton,

> > because doing so would have the
> > first seal move past sediment built up in the bore of the 
> master cylinder.
> > He said that he had seen cars come back to the shop after 
> bleeding the 
> > brakes, needing a master if his mechanics didn't do that.
> 
> 
> Yeah, if the car had 100K on it, if the brake system had 
> never been serviced, and if somebody allowed dirt to get in 
> the system, otherwise, it's a closed system and any residue 
> should get pushed to the wheel cylinders, contributing to the 
> occasional leaking wheel cylinder.
> 
> But Steve, isn't your master cylinder either new or barely used???
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com

Yes,
	I was replying to this particular question (quoted here) on a car
that was being serviced for a brake job at the Mechanic's shop when I grew
up as a teenager.

	To answer your other question, the Clevis adjustment question is for
my 1970 C/S.  

Now that my shoulder has healed I'm making some good daily progress.

Thanx for the reply.


Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:39:22 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

Milton replied with.........

> > I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go TOO far
> screws
> > it up and it requires another rebuild. That's why it's now 
> recommended
> that
> > when bleeding brakes, one have a plank of wood placed under 
> the brake
> > pedal: to keep it from bottoming out.
> 
> 
> But it's a simple hydraulic cylinder??? What on Earth could 
> be inside it that would cause a malfunction on a dry 
> cylinder? For that matter, after rebuild, the rebuilder had 
> better push the piston all the way forward to make sure the 
> piston and seals don't stick or there is no roughness in the cylinder.
> 
> 
> > In the olden days with the older-design MCs, we didn't have that 
> > problem, though.
> 
> 
> Somebody would have to show me the difference between a 
> master cylinder made in 1970 and 2000 before I would believe 
> that. It doesn't make logical sense.
> 
> Now, on a modern vehicle with various bake sensors and ABS, I 
> could understand why during on-vehicle service, it may be a 
> good idea to not press the master cylinder all the way to the 
> floor, but it sure couldn't matter during bench service.
> 
> Milton Schick

Milton,
	This is basically nothing more than what an Old timer taught me when
I was a kid.  I understand that we as car lovers, will maintain our vehicles
with great attention.  But, as an owner of a car who changes their oil, once
a year, I could see the brake system get contaminated with water and some
rust.

I do understand like you wrote that it's a closed system, but doesn't brake
fluid get water in it during the cycling of cold/hot (braking) operations,
and that's why it's suggested to flush the braking system every 2 years?

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:27:31 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Fellow Oldsmobile men contact me (S.Minore S.Winn)

Hey all,

	I am in the process of updating my web page, and would like to get
in touch with you two guys, whom I don't have an email addy. For.

Scott A. Winn
Stephen Minore

Please shoot me an email offline.

Thanks,

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:14:48 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: World's Smallest Oldsmobile crankshaft

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7907163031

Go see, quick, before ebay decides that not-really-for-sale things violate 
one of their myriad of rules.

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:41:05 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

> I do understand like you wrote that it's a closed system, but doesn't
brake
> fluid get water in it during the cycling of cold/hot (braking) operations,
> and that's why it's suggested to flush the braking system every 2 years?


I get into a lot of arguments sometimes when it comes to conventional
reasoning.

The brake system is a closed system. That's illustrated by the flexible
sealing cap on the master cylinder cap. Brake fluid will seep past seals in
an extremely small amount over time. Also, the brake fluid will vaporize
with the hot/cold cycle and not all will recondense into the fluid state.
Those 2 items account for the brake fluid level inside the master cylinder
very slowly dropping, assuming no outright leaks. That, along with volume
shift when the brakes are applied, accounts for the center of the master
cylinder cap seal being distended downward to take up the air volume change
if and when the fluid level drops. When that flexibility of the cap seal is
working, that indicates there are no leaks or holes in the cap seal. As long
as the cap seal is sealing, both the old and the new brake fluid came out of
a sealed bottle so that it didn't absorb moisture from the air, and the
master cylinder cap is not left off the master cylinder any longer than the
time to either check the fluid level or add more fluid, there should not be
enough water vapor from the air going into the master cylinder to matter. It
does take some time for brake fluid the absorb a little water vapor through
hydroscopic action and for moisture laden air to flow into the air space
above the fluid level in a master cylinder to displace the brake fluid vapor
that is concentrated there. It takes time for that to happen, the amount of
water vapor that could be absorbed is extremely small in the very short time
the master cylinder should be open, and if proper precautions are taken,
moisture in the brake system should not be an issue. Finally, the master
cylinder is to be filled to within 1/4" of the top. That's easy on a
horizontal cylinder, but on an angled cylinder, try for 1/4" at the center
for the angle of the fluid surface. That's a very small amount of air to be
trapped in the cylinder with the fluid, and the protrusions on the bottom of
the cap seal will take up most of that space, forcing out most of the air
when the cap is installed. I know people who fill all the way to the top,
eliminating the air space as much as possible, so that cap installation will
force fluid overflow to ensure a minimal amount or no amount of air is
trapped in the cylinder with the fluid. Then, they hose off the firewall,
engine, and engine compartment to get rid of the spilled brake fluid. Those
people ignore the reason for the 1/4" fill level, which is to provide space
for hot, expanded brake fluid. Therefore, that practice is to be done at
your own risk. If hot, expanded brake fluid put too much pressure on the cap
seal, it could leak under pressure. Actually, everytime the cap is removed
on the master cylinder to inspect the fluid level, have the brake fluid
bottle there with you so the cylinder can be topped off to displace air
before you reinstall the cap.

Granted, I'm talking about good mechanics and vehicles owners who know what
they're doing. I've also seen a repair shop in Missoura where a master
cylinder cap was left off the master cylinder all day, in the middle of a
typical Missoura 95% humidity summer, while the idiots waited for a brake
part to be delivered. The brake fluid in that system *did* absorb some
moisture from the air. Who knows, those idiots may also never believed in
putting the cap back on a brake fluid bottle.

So I guess the whole issue is relative. It all depends on how the brake
system is cared for, and who does the caring. Most instructions of this
nature are for worst case situations.

Actually, that is one of the several reasons that silicone brake fluid
exists. It ignores water vapor and is idiot proof in that regard.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:06:13 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting/Setting P-Brake Booster Clevis

Steve IS 100% right, the brake fluid always gets moisture inside which makes
rust parts and causes all type of domages.
Each 2 yrs you  must change your brake fluid if you want to keep your car
long time. My 74CS I kept 11 yrs ( just've sold it ) and never had any
problem with calipers or rear cylinders. But the first MC I changed lasted
little and the next one always was soft after air bleedenig in the workshop.
Looks like the end of the piston travel inside is not polished enough and
can spoil the piston o ring surface.
When you change the brake fluid in some new ( 2-3yrs old cars) there is A
LOT of dirt trapped inside]
rgds
Matt> Milton replied with.........
>
> > > I've heard that letting the piston in the master cylinder go TOO far
> > screws
> > > it up and it requires another rebuild. That's why it's now
> > recommended
> > that
> > > when bleeding brakes, one have a plank of wood placed under
> > the brake
> > > pedal: to keep it from bottoming out.
> >
> >
> > But it's a simple hydraulic cylinder??? What on Earth could
> > be inside it that would cause a malfunction on a dry
> > cylinder? For that matter, after rebuild, the rebuilder had
> > better push the piston all the way forward to make sure the
> > piston and seals don't stick or there is no roughness in the cylinder.
> >
> >
> > > In the olden days with the older-design MCs, we didn't have that
> > > problem, though.
> >
> >
> > Somebody would have to show me the difference between a
> > master cylinder made in 1970 and 2000 before I would believe
> > that. It doesn't make logical sense.
> >
> > Now, on a modern vehicle with various bake sensors and ABS, I
> > could understand why during on-vehicle service, it may be a
> > good idea to not press the master cylinder all the way to the
> > floor, but it sure couldn't matter during bench service.
> >
> > Milton Schick
>
> Milton,
> This is basically nothing more than what an Old timer taught me when
> I was a kid.  I understand that we as car lovers, will maintain our
vehicles
> with great attention.  But, as an owner of a car who changes their oil,
once
> a year, I could see the brake system get contaminated with water and some
> rust.
>
> I do understand like you wrote that it's a closed system, but doesn't
brake
> fluid get water in it during the cycling of cold/hot (braking) operations,
> and that's why it's suggested to flush the braking system every 2 years?
>
> Steve Reed
> '96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
> '70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
> '68 Cutlass Supreme
> Austin, TX
> http://www.sreed.0catch.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:33:34 -0400
From: "Jay Britt" <jbritt67@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: World's Smallest Oldsmobile crankshaft

You did store this upright and not lying flat, didn't you? ;-)

- -----Original Message-----
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7907163031

Go see, quick, before ebay decides that not-really-for-sale things
violate 
one of their myriad of rules.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:39:43 -0500
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Dash Speaker(s)

All,
	What have some of you done for having tunes in your rides?  Right
now my original doors are butchered for 6.5" speakers, but I don't know if I
want to hack up the new doors I get.
	I'm not looking for anything outrageous by any means, just something
to listen to occasionally besides the rumbling of the 455.

Thanks,

Steve Reed
'96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
'68 Cutlass Supreme 
Austin, TX
http://www.sreed.0catch.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:01:04 -0600
From: eric <aksoe1@sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: Turbo 200 Shifting at 4500RPM, what RPM is good

Thats interesting.  I have more lift, but I think the Duration was quite 
close to stock specs.  It doesn't feel like it has any more HP after 
4000, thats for sure.  The Cam guy said it would produce power up to 
5000, but its peak would be lower.  My second to 3rd shift hits around 5000.

I'd like a good GPS or something to graph the Acceleration.  It shifts 
to 3rd at about 70mph, and the next 10-15 mph climb looks and feels 
better than the previous.  With maximum Torque in the 2800 range, I'll 
never see that shifting at 4500 or 5000.  A 3500 Shift brings me right 
back in the Mid 2500 range (looking at the road, these are all 
approxomates).

I'm guessing my Peak HP to be no more than 4000, if not a wee bit less.  
I'm going to look more on Comp's site to see what they think, if they'll 
say.

The Fuel Pump and filter are new, Carb Sounds fine, and no noticeable 
sounds of bad running occur at the High RPMS.

AS FOR 1/4 M time:  I Got a stopwatch, and a roughed out measurement, 
and I come at around 17.2 Seconds for a quarter, with a little squealing 
off the line but otherwise good traction.  The takeoff feels great, but 
the end result, and top end of < 100 is not what I think I should get 
?????????  Can someone please comment on this, I'm expecting 15 or 16  ??

I'm going to proceed with the weights for now, see what it does.  Worst 
that'll happen is I'm a bit to put them back to stock.

Joe Vahabzadeh wrote:

>Well, assuming you have dual exhaust, my ratings for STOCK 455 engines in
>1974 are as follows:
>
>
>Engine					HP			Torque
>------------				------------		--------------
>455 single exhaust (T code)	215 @ 3600		350 @ 2400
>455 dual exhaust (U code)		250 @ 4000		370 @ 2800
>
>  
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4927
*********************************
