
oldsmobile-digest        Friday, July 9 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4946



3800 and plastic intake question
Re: Tires
Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs
Re:  Tires
Re: 3800 and plastic intake question
Re: Tires
Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs
Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs
RE: [Fwd: R134]
Re: Troubleshooting '72 H/O
Re: Trans Cooler Attachment Info
Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs
Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs
EGR: was Re: 3800 and plastic intake question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 21:52:20 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: 3800 and plastic intake question

All,

What was the first year that the 3800 engine came with the plastic intake
manifold?  Am I correct in assuming all 3800s of the given model year had it?

Thanks!

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:58:03 EDT
From: WlJam5@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tires

- -------------------------------1089338283
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



- -------------------------------1089338283
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f"></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1089338283--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:48:54 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs

> Just take a chisel and hammer on one side of the plug so it will turn
> enough that you can grab it and pull it out.  Even if you push the whole
> plug into the engine I don't believe it will go far and you will be able
> to grab it with pliers or channel locks and pull it out.


You said it perfectly. That's the way to do it.


> Then you can
> either buy stock metal ones or the rubber type that expand as you
> tighten a nut.


Don't use the rubber ones. I had them pop out. Not cool in the middle of a
highway.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 21:55:21 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re:  Tires

Joe:

Looks like you are excited about the new wrapping! However, I think you 
really shouldn't compare your brand new rubber to 58k mile material! Even 
if you'd bought the exact same tire, it would have been like day and night. 
As tires age, they get hard and loud, even unbalanced. 7 years is very old 
for tires IMHO. For yoru safety, you should throw them out after 5, 
regardless of tread wear.

No, I don't sell tires for a living... ;)

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 05:19:36 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 3800 and plastic intake question

> What was the first year that the 3800 engine came with the plastic intake
> manifold?  Am I correct in assuming all 3800s of the given model year had
it?

1993.  Yes, all of them I can think of had it.  They didn't have trouble
with them until 1995 when EGR was needed for emission compliance again.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 06:27:26 EDT
From: WlJam5@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tires

- -------------------------------1089368845
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

NOBODY said u did. question is the manufacturers warranty/guarantee  also 
inclusive of time limit as it is of wear and mileage.? the concern of safety 
intrisically after /beyond 5 years in a tire your opinion is the first on that;but 
it does bring up the serious safety factor which generates the question do 
the tire companies speculate on that or is it a integral fact about tires

- -------------------------------1089368845
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">NOBODY said u did. question is the manufacturers warranty/guarantee&nbsp;=
 also inclusive of time limit as it is of wear and mileage.? the concern of=20=
safety intrisically after /beyond 5 years in a tire your opinion is the firs=
t on that;but it does bring up the serious safety factor which generates the=
 question do the tire companies speculate on that or is it a integral fact a=
bout tires</BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1089368845--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 03:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs

Hello  Speaking of freeze plugs, I normally use the
steel thicker plugs that cost $.75 a piece but I was
buying some parts from Jegs and while I was at it I
bought a brass set from Pioneer. They were "thin" on
the sides, depth-wide. I put them in with prematex
sealer. Well to make a long story short, one poped
out! It was on the passenger side, middle one. I was
able to get to it, cleaned it up and installed a
steel, deeper plug. I used gasket-cinch this time. I
did feel a minor casting flaw and I thinking it may
have contributed to the thinner-depth plug coming out.
It may have been a fluke, the engine was cold and only
ran a minute before poping. I have had good luck with
gasket-cinch for other purpose and I think I will use
it on soft-plugs in the future.  It is hard to find, I
get it at the  Honda motorcycle shop. I will never use
a thin-sided soft plug again and will only use steel
ones.  LATER, Ken

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:56:19 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs

>>Installing one involves using a drift that's roughly the diameter
>>of the plug itself, so that you drive it in by its flange rather
>>than by its center.
>
>I always used a large socket pounded by a 2x4.

Certainly; that would install it exactly right. (I love it when the Haynes 
manual shows a procedure that _doesn't_ involve using Unobtainium Special 
Tool #XYZ387, and instead shows them whacking on something with an old 
screwdriver and a block of wood...  :-)

Y'know, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes for the freeze 
plug to be installed concave-side-in: as pressure on it increases from 
inside the block, its grip on the perimeter of the hole would _decrease_. If 
installed convex-side-in, block pressure would _increase_ its seal instead, 
which is what you want.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:41:13 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: R134]

> From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
> Subject: RE: [Fwd: R134]
> 
> When I had my Grand Wagoneer converted to R134a, the A/C 
> mechanic (that's all this shop does) said that R-134a works 
> better at lower pressure

Well, that is in direct contradiction to every piece of information I have read or heard about R134A. For instance, the local Pep Boys has a handout about converting from R12 to R134A, and it states that in extremely hot environments an auxiliary electric fan on the condenser may be necessary to keep the pressure from spiking high enough to blow out the front compressor seal. That piece of information about higher pressures and blown front seals was verified by the AC tech at AAPAK in Tempe where I bought my reman compressor. Also, the auto manufacturers have to redesign the AC systems to incorporate a larger evaporator to get the same cooling out of the R134A systems, since the new R134A refrigerant didn't cool as well as R12. Sounds to me like that AC mechanic needs to brush up on his facts.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:50:06 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting '72 H/O

> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:58:27 -0400
> From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
> Subject: Re: Troubleshooting '72 H/O
>
> On GOOD engines, though, more often (at least, initially), the rod 
> bearing doesn't weld itself to either the crank or rod but slips 
> and spins and slips again. There is a knock that gets louder and 
> louder the longer you run the engine or the higher the rpm. 

That's exactly what happened to my 350 back in about 1987 or so. I had never heard a rod knock before, but I knew INSTANTLY what it was. Of course, the events that transpired immediately before the noise showed up were a big hint, too - a series of 6000+ RPM continuous burnouts on an oily blacktop road. Ah, the ignorance of youth. Upon engine teardown, it was obvious that the rod bearing halves had slipped a bit as the tang was no longer in the notch on the rod. 

Kenneth 
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:56:45 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Trans Cooler Attachment Info

> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:03:38 -0400
> From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Trans Cooler Attachment Info
> 
> I use the factory set up for the cooler plumbing.
> 
> Trans out to radiator cooler inlet
> Radiator cooler outlet to inlet of auxiallary cooler
> Auxillary cooler outlet back to trans
> 
> This is in the factory asembly manual.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul Tumolo

Just so I don't have to make a big mess trying to figure this out, which one of 
the lines on the tranny (or on the radiator cooler as that's where I would be 
working) is the pressure outlet and which is the return? 
And is it the same on the TH350 as on the TH400?

Thanks,

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:16:37 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs

At Friday, 09 July 2004, you wrote:
>Y'know, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes 
>for the freeze plug to be installed concave-side-in: as 
>pressure on it increases from inside the block, its grip 
>on the perimeter of the hole would _decrease_. If 
>installed convex-side-in, block pressure would _increase_ 
>its seal instead, which is what you want.

Perhaps. OTOH, that pressure inside the cooling system is less than 
20 lbs/in^2, virtually negligible in comparision to the pressure 
exerted upon the edges of the plug when its concave center is pounded 
in/displaced toward the center, which causes the edges to expand 
and thus grip the block. IIRC, the plugs are supposed to be of such 
a size that they can be readily fit inside the bore against the stops 
inside the block. Then the center is hit lightly to cause the plug 
to expand against the edges of the bore and thus grip the block.

The cups work much the same way and were what I was talking about 
by using a large socket to punch them into place. The cup's edge 
is slightly tapered so it's a tight fit in the bore to begin with.


SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:37:26 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: The awakening.....freeze plugs

- -------------------------------1089401845
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I replaced a leaky freeze plug on the Delta almost nine years ago. Used a  
steel replacement bottle cap type plug, concave to the outside. Put some 3M  
Yellow Gorilla snot around the rim, and a socket with rubber mallet to fit.  
Still good.
 
 
Bruce
75  Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)
72 Cutlass Conv.
56 190 SL Conv.
92  Eldo

- -------------------------------1089401845
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>I replaced a leaky freeze plug on the Delta almost nine years ago. Used=
 a=20
steel replacement bottle cap type plug, concave to the outside. Put some 3M=20
Yellow Gorilla snot around the rim, and a socket with rubber mallet to fit.=20
Still good.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Bruce<BR>75=20
Delta 88 Conv. (duals, of course)<BR>72 Cutlass Conv.<BR>56 190 SL Conv.<BR>=
92=20
Eldo</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1089401845--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:13:54 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: EGR: was Re: 3800 and plastic intake question

At 05:19 AM 07/09/2004 -0400, Fred wrote:
>> What was the first year that the 3800 engine came with the plastic intake
>> manifold?  Am I correct in assuming all 3800s of the given model year had
>it?
>
>1993.  Yes, all of them I can think of had it.  They didn't have trouble
>with them until 1995 when EGR was needed for emission compliance again.
>
Um, what years in the 80s-90s did not have EGR valves?  I know my 1989 3800
has one.

And, wouldn't the lack of EGR mean that you could have less timing advance?

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4946
*********************************
