
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, July 19 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4956



Re: '67 Supreme convert pics
Top won't go down all the way
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???
Re:  '98 Aurora problem
OT: EFI issues
OT: EFI question
UPDATE: 72 442 convertible, stolen in Sunnyvale, CA 7/11/04
Re: oil smoke on startup
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???
cause of backfiring
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Reproduction 1967 OAI air cleaner in 'glass
looking for a tutorial on timing
Re: EFI issues
Fuel peump replacement
Blown head gasket implications
Re: Reproduction 1967 OAI air cleaner in 'glass
Re: Blown head gasket implications
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Re: cause of backfiring
Re: Blown head gasket implications
Re: '67 Supreme convert pics
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:19 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: '67 Supreme convert pics

Greg,

The steering wheel on the '67 is a late 60's Buick Skylark, with the Olds 
center cap.  Thanks, glad you like the car.  It will be for sale soon.  Too 
many cars and projects.

Joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:14:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: mitzm@earthlink.net
Subject: Top won't go down all the way

The top on my 70 cutlass seems to jam about 3 inches before all the way down.  Even if I shove on it It just won't go.   Not a hydraulics problem.    Either the linkage or the way the top fabric is installed.    Does anyone have acess to a body manual that might give troubleshooting tips for this.     Perhaps a linkage adjustment.

I just feel a bit dorky with driving down the road with the top sprouting up above flush with the body sort of like the 80's Mustangs.  

Advice? (about the top, not the way I feel about myself ;)
Hans

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:05:25 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

At 07:23 PM 7/18/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Steve, did you notice that they REALLY "fixed" the oil return problem 
>on the late 307 7A heads?? When I opened up my 307, I thought that 
>something had smashed holes in the head castings!!
>For those who haven't looked at these heads before, the factory opened 
>up a BUNCH of material between the inner "wall" where the valve cover 
>seals and the valve guides, all the way across the head. A nice answer 
>to those pesky little oil holes on the sides!!!

????????????????????????????????????

My heads don't have anything "all the way across the head,". There ARE two
cast-in "holes" located right above, and right in between, the two center
cylinders. And while's it's apparent that the oil level inside the head has
gotten high enough to flow into those holes, they're WELL above the center
line of the head, being above even the upper row of head bolts. I just
looked at my Ka heads and those don't have those holes; the rocker arm bolt
boss extends across from one valve to the other, on each cylinder. These
cast-in holes would be located right in the center of those bosses between
the bolt holes.

So, can you get pictures of what you're talking about, if that wasn't it??

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 23:28:45 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

Yes, those are the holes I'm referring to. They're not nice, round machined
holes, though, to be honest they looked like casting errors to me...maybe
mine WERE casting errors? :) I'll try to get some photos...they honestly
look like someone at the factory took a hammer and chisel and decided to fix
the oil drainback problem once and for all...but they are exactly identical
on both sides.
In any case, they allow for a LOT more oil drainback than the two holes
present in any old Olds engine.
> My heads don't have anything "all the way across the head,". There ARE two
> cast-in "holes" located right above, and right in between, the two center
> cylinders. And while's it's apparent that the oil level inside the head
has
> gotten high enough to flow into those holes, they're WELL above the center
> line of the head, being above even the upper row of head bolts. I just
> looked at my Ka heads and those don't have those holes; the rocker arm
bolt
> boss extends across from one valve to the other, on each cylinder. These
> cast-in holes would be located right in the center of those bosses between
> the bolt holes.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:37:05 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re:  '98 Aurora problem

Peter Ferraro wrote:

<< I had what might be a similar situation.

Headlights were flashing at a rather erratic and high speed.  From inside 
the car there is a rather loud clicking noise (from the headlight solenoid) 
down near the e-brake.  The cause for me was contamination on the headlight 
switch.  I pullled the rubber boot back, sprayed the swicth with contact 
cleaner and it was okay.  The problem comes back about once per year in the 
summer as the heat seems to make something migrate on the contacts.  These 
swicthes are known to fail and are very expensive.

Not sure if you are experiencing the same thing or not but Good Luck.

<<Peter Ferraro

Peter, you hit it on the button.  Last night I looked through some 
automotive forums, and other Auroras have had the problem.  It seems that 
grease on the switch melts in the summer and causes multiple points on the 
switch to make contact when not desired.  Today I pulled the cover off the 
column and sprayed/blew out the headlight portion of the switch about 5-6 
times, alternating electrical contact cleaner with compressed air.  No more 
turn signal click, growl, lights flashing and staying on, or door chime 
telling me the keys are still in the ignition when they are actually in my 
pocket!!

The switch and labor at the dealer are $500.00+.  This fix took 75 minutes 
and 50 cents worth of contact cleaner.

Joe Varley

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:12:12 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: OT: EFI issues

Got a problem for those of you familiar with EFI....

My mother has a 95 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi Eclipse) with a 1.5 Mitsu engine. Car has 86k on it, all original with the
exception of cap, rotor, plugs, air filters, etc.

It seems to be stumbling, (not quite a misfire, but a surging type hesitation) under anything other than a high manifold
situation. If revved while idling, it stumbles and then smoothes out providing throttle position is not increased. When
accelerating in any gear, the car stumbles until speed is reached and then smoothes out. At about 120 kmh (70 mph) there
is nothing left....its like there is a rev limiter, it just seems to burp and fart along until you slow down below about
110 kmh. It will cruise smooth until you come to a slight hill, or give it a little more throttle, then it stumbles
again until you lighten up on the throttle, or the top of the hill is reached. It is always smooth when decelerating.

I don't think the fuel filter has ever been changed. I suspect this could be the problem but neither I or my mother can
really afford to guess. There also seems to be a vacuum sensor ( a sensor in the top of the manifold on the intake valve
side of the throttle body / TPS)

Plugs are good, wires good, cap and rotor good.

Any ideas ???

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:46:33 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: OT: EFI question

Got a problem for those of you familiar with EFI....

My mother has a 95 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi Eclipse) with a 1.5 Mitsu engine. Car has 86k on it, all original with the
exception of cap, rotor, plugs, air filters, etc.

It seems to be stumbling, (not quite a misfire, but a surging type hesitation) under anything other than a high manifold
situation. If revved while idling, it stumbles and then smoothes out providing throttle position is not increased. When
accelerating in any gear, the car stumbles until speed is reached and then smoothes out. At about 120 kmh (70 mph) there
is nothing left....its like there is a rev limiter, it just seems to burp and fart along until you slow down below about
110 kmh. It will cruise smooth until you come to a slight hill, or give it a little more throttle, then it stumbles
again until you lighten up on the throttle, or the top of the hill is reached. It is always smooth when decelerating.

I don't think the fuel filter has ever been changed. I suspect this could be the problem but neither I or my mother can
really afford to guess. There also seems to be a vacuum sensor ( a sensor in the top of the manifold on the intake valve
side of the throttle body / TPS)

Plugs are good, wires good, cap and rotor good.

Any ideas ???

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:42:24 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: UPDATE: 72 442 convertible, stolen in Sunnyvale, CA 7/11/04

Here an update on the stolen 442. Sad news, but bette than a complete loss 
- - I suppose. Looks like the crooks know their cars! Maybe want to watch out 
for things showing up on ebay ...

Recovered (sort of)
Posted on July 14, 2004 at 12:46:05 PM by Nick Davis

The San Jose PD recovered my car on Tuesday the 13th. It's now in pieces 
and the W-27 rear end is missing. "Some assembly" is going to be required. 
However, when put back together and detailed, it's apparently worth 3-4 
times what I paid for it new in '72, so I think it's worth the time and 
effort. Thanks to all who forwarded my plea to other boards.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:56:16 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: oil smoke on startup

> I found the reciept. I have not looked up the part number yet but the
> reciept says total seal street which would make it a "regular tension" oil
> ring and not the light tension ones according to there site


Hmmmm.

I guess it's probably just the long wait for chrome rings to seat. It could
be something strange with the valve seals and/or valve guides. The only
other possibility could be a leaking intake gasket that is allowing oil to
be sucked into the intake passages upon engine shutdown.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:13:10 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

Steve,

> Here's the PNs I have (application for the Frods is '66 Stang 289 4 bbl,
> non-hi po; application for the Olds is '88 Crapice w/307 Olds V8) and some
> prices (prices of the Frod seals are for a set of eight each; the Olds
seal
> kit contains 8 intakes, 8 exhaust):
>                                   NAPA            Pick
>                   Rock   Advance Levine's  DAP  Pro Parts
> Intake SS13364-1  $5.51   $7.48  I ferget $5.30 not listed
> Exhaust SS72562   $5.68   $7.38  $10.99   $5.46   $6.01
> Olds 307 SS70393 $10.06  $10.48  I ferget $9.67  $10.64


>From my 2001 CLEVITE engine parts catalog:

Ford 289
#216-1033 = intake and exhaust valve seal, except special 4 barrel carb
1963-1968, also 1962-1963 221 V8 and 1962-1965 260 V8 and 1968-1980 302
#216-1052 = intake and exhaust valve seal special 4 barrel carb 1963-1967

I would have to see them both to tell which ones I use.


> Note that the Olds kit comes with different seals for intake and exhaust,
> in separate plastic bags labeled 70393-Intake and 70437-Exhaust,


Always did for the funky OEM plastic valve seals.


> The intake
> seals are black hard-plastic, the exhaust are white hard-plastic. Both are
> the same dimension, roughly 1/2" long. The box also includes two
> drilled-out nylon rods that are used to tap the new seals down over the
> valve stems, because the seals are an interference fit with the valve
stem.


Correct for all Olds engines, as far as I know.


> One might therefore argue that since my seals are so tough to remove, they
> may not be worn out after all. I'm worried about that but nothing I can
do,
> eh?


Usually, those seals are broken up and laying at the bottom of the valve
spring.


> It may be my rings are shot but that wouldn't explain the large puffs
> of blue smoke when starting the hot engine. There's no way the oil could
be
> migrating UP past the piston's oil control ring into the combustion
> chamber. And I've never seen the blue cloud while starting the engine
cold.


Enough time has elapsed for oil to drain down past the rings on the cold
engine. If the rings are weak enough, not enough oil may be scraped off the
cylinder walls, but it should drain away on the cold engine.


> Which is also confusing: if oil is seeping down the valve stems after
> shutting off the hot engine, then where's it going that it doesn't burn
> when starting the COLD engine?? It must be seeping down the cylinder walls
> and perhaps seeping down past the rings.


Through the open valves and past the seats of the closed valves into the
cylinder and then past the rings.


> If you consider that the pistons
> and rings are at their largest size when hot, that could mean they
> effectively keep the oil from seeping past while the engine is still hot.
> But after they cool off, perhaps they contract sufficiently that the oil
> seeps past the rings and pistons back into the crankcase.


And the rings being old and worn.


> As you can see, there's only pennies difference with the larger intake
seal
> being slightly higher in two case, and slightly lower in the third case. I
> suspect they're the same rubber, just different lengths.


#216-1063 = intake and exhaust 1969-1970 Boss 302
Intake for 351 has 3 different seals listed for 1975-1979
Exhaust for 351 has 2 different seals listed for 1975-1979

Now that I look at the catalog, I think someone has 351 and 289 Ford valve
seals mixed up.


> DAP lists primarily Melling parts; what's your feeling of quality of those
> compared to Sealed Power (yes, I know: Melling is great for oil pumps
;o)??


Melling oil pumps are fine, but I wouldn't use their cams or lifters. What
else do they have?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:37:56 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: cause of backfiring

Generic motor question: Can a lean mixture cause backfiring through the
exhaust? Like at idle and when blipping the throttle and getting backfire as
the motor winds down.

Assume timing is correct and valves are good.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:44:58 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

On Jul 16, 2004, at 8:41 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:37:55 -0400
> From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install
>
>  From certain points of view, I agree with both sides of the fuse
> argument.  I believe that the circuit should be fused close to the
> battery with a fuse at least 5 amps less that the current carrying
> capacity of the smallest gauge wire in the circuit (which should be at
> least 15-20 amps greater that the theoretical current load of the
> powered item), to prevent wire overload and potential fire.  I also
> believe in fusing close to electrical items with a slow-blow  fuse 10
> amps greater than the maximum theoretical current draw of the item 
> being
> powered, to cut off power to the item in case of internal short causing
> excessive current draw.
>
> Milton, I have a very good example of the need to fuse at the source 
> end
> of the wire:
>
> I inspected a vehicle recently (2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition
> Group w/ under 3000 miles on it) which had the interior gutted/ruined 
> by
> fire.  The owner and his friend had installed a stereo system w/ amps
> and subwoofer box in the trunk, and had run a 4-ga power cable from the
> battery, along the right apron, behind the fender, in through the right
> front door jamb and down under the carpet, then on to the rear.  The
> fuse was placed just before the amps in the trunk.  The wire chafed 
> from
> the right front door being opened and closed, and finally rubbed 
> through
> the insulation when the door was closed at a restaurant one night.  The
> owner and his wife came out (after dark) and he noted his keyless 
> remote
> would not open the doors.  He also noted the windows were dark (said
> they looked tinted) but he thought it was just the light playing tricks
> due to the darkness.  He opened the door with the key and black smoke
> poured out.  Fortunately for him, the battery had been drained and the
> fire had self-extinguished due to the vehicle being closed up so there
> was no flash explosion, but the interior was completely ruined.  The
> arcing of the cable to the right hinge pillar and door was like a
> welder, generating localized heat which quickly caught the dash and 
> door
> trim on fire.  The vehicle (worth around $29000) was deemed a total 
> loss
> as not economically repairable.  The only external indication of the
> fire besides the soot-coated windows is the cracked & delaminated
> windshield glass on the right side by the hinge pillar (caused by high
> localized heat).

Amazing that people will pay $30K for a car, and then skimp on 
something like that.
It's not like electricity is a new thing, geeze....
>
> By the same token, fusing at the front only with a fuse larger than the
> reasonable current capacity of the wiring in the circuit is inviting a
> fire in the event of a moderate-resistance ground or short, where the
> fuse can handle the current load but the wiring cannot.

Agreed. I failed to note that qualification in my last response.
I forget if I mentioned it or not, but I was a mobile electronics 
installer for a number of years. I've seen some pretty heinous 
self-installs...

krw
>
> Just a little food for thought....
>
> - --
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net

On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:10:06 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Reproduction 1967 OAI air cleaner in 'glass

Just saw one; debuted at the Cruise nite Saturday
The only one so far

OAI 4" hoses
Looks GREAT painted, will not look like chrome of course [except the lid]

Lansing's "Dr. Old[rocket]mobile" [No "S"] has had the mold made

Comes with hoses, Black or white Gel-coated Air Cleaner body, lid, filter, 
and FLANGES for fwd end of hoses to adapt to say your inner headlight 
housings.

He is comfortable at a price of $455.88 for the package.
I told him I would take 2 or 3 of them.
Gotta sell a few engines I guess...

I can fwd a pic or 2 to those intersted.
Trying to get my web man to get a pic of it on a web site.
I could do another "fake" ebay ad I guess
some pinhead would probably bid on it despite instructions....

PS the 66-442 motor sold, also the 1970 350 core, and hopefully a 1968 350 
core

Driving across town yesterday hoping to find a REO before they all leave 
town [100th anniversary of REO this past weekend, more on that later]... A 
guy with a 455 on a trailer hollers at me, I execute a u-ie, and follow him, 
get his contact info, the whole thing with test stand/ trailer is for sale. 
Not too pricey, gotta buy that now...

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ‘Dig Yourself Out of Debt’ from MSN 
Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:46:25 -0400
From: "Bill Reilly" <william.reilly@comcast.net>
Subject: looking for a tutorial on timing

Hi Gang,

I was wondering if someone might be able to take some time and e-mail me a
detailed instruction for setting the timing on our engines. I know the
basics of setting it at the balancer, but how about fine tuning with the
distributer, etc.

I have a timing light and I just purchased some marked tape that displays
the degrees around the balancer. I also bought a distributor advance kit. I
know initial timing is usually 10-12 degrees btdc. After that I get lost
with how to adjust for the other 24 degrees of timing.

This is one of those areas I've always been hesitant to mess around with
because I've never really had any proper instruction.  I'm afraid I'll never
get the car running as good as before. Hopefully after a little instruction
I can get the car running better than before!

Details for my vehicle:
1985 Cutlass with 1972 455 and 200-4R
Mild rebuild. .30 overbore, edelbrock performer cam and intake. 1976 Q-Jet
Carb. True Dual exhaust with dual cats. Early non computer HEI distributor.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to reading the discussion on this topic.

Bill Reilly
william.reilly@comcast.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:21:15 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: EFI issues

it sounds like its breaking up under a load  check or replace fuel filter,and ignition system,when
was timeing belt last changed
does that car use a maf air sensor if so make sure the duct is not cracked,being a 95 it should have
set a check engine light.if it has not and the bulb works on the key on engine off position its most
likely a maintence problem not a computor or sensor problem.  if you have a way to monitor  the
management system it simplifies things
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin & Casey Olund" <kcolund@shaw.ca>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:12 AM
Subject: OT: EFI issues


> Got a problem for those of you familiar with EFI....
>
> My mother has a 95 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi Eclipse) with a 1.5 Mitsu engine. Car has 86k on it, all
original with the
> exception of cap, rotor, plugs, air filters, etc.
>
> It seems to be stumbling, (not quite a misfire, but a surging type hesitation) under anything
other than a high manifold
> situation. If revved while idling, it stumbles and then smoothes out providing throttle position
is not increased. When
> accelerating in any gear, the car stumbles until speed is reached and then smoothes out. At about
120 kmh (70 mph) there
> is nothing left....its like there is a rev limiter, it just seems to burp and fart along until you
slow down below about
> 110 kmh. It will cruise smooth until you come to a slight hill, or give it a little more throttle,
then it stumbles
> again until you lighten up on the throttle, or the top of the hill is reached. It is always smooth
when decelerating.
>
> I don't think the fuel filter has ever been changed. I suspect this could be the problem but
neither I or my mother can
> really afford to guess. There also seems to be a vacuum sensor ( a sensor in the top of the
manifold on the intake valve
> side of the throttle body / TPS)
>
> Plugs are good, wires good, cap and rotor good.
>
> Any ideas ???
>
> Kevin
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:28:09 -0400
From: Paul White <oldslist@netscape.net>
Subject: Fuel peump replacement

All,
Sorry I know this is off topic but im kinda in a bind here...Ive done 
fuel pumps before but Im just wondering, are there any common pitfalls I 
may run into when replacing a fuel pump on a 1988 Chevy Caprice?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:21:45 -0400
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: Blown head gasket implications

Greetings,

Had some fun car times this past Saturday...  On my way to a friend's house
(to redo my front wiring harness) I had to get on the W-31 a bit to bypass
some impending doom.  Upon reaching my destination, I noticed white smoke
pouring from my left-hand tailpipe.  Upon further inspection, I could smell
antifreeze from said pipe.  Took a look at my oil, no milkshake or any other
noticeable differences.  So, my assumption here is a blew a head gasket!  :(

Having never dealt with such an issue, I'm wondering two things:

How long I can safely drive the vehicle in this condition?  Meaning, I don't
plan on doing any daily driving, but since I don't have the $$ to fix the
problem right now, I'd like to put the car to rest in my garage which is 90
miles away.  I assume the answer to this question depends largely on the
severity of the problem, but if I were able to keep the radiator filled, and
the situation doesn't worsen for oil/antifreeze mixing, would I be ok
driving it this distance?

Also, are there any implications for not fixing the problem right away while
the car is in storage?  The thought of water/condensation in a cylinder is
bothering, but I'm not sure how bad it would be to let the car sit like
this!?

Once again, you're collective knowledge is much appreciated!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:30:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Jay Britt <jbritt67@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Reproduction 1967 OAI air cleaner in 'glass

This brought back a slightly fuzzy memory for me. Does anyone else remember when our ol' friend Jim Chermack was going to have these air cleaners reproduced in steel?. I guess it never happened, but I seem to remember he was close to having the GM licensing secured. I do know he was going to use the air cleaner from his drop-dead gorgeous W-30 Trac Pac car as a mock up. I would have sold my soul to the devil to buy that car (as if he wanted it).

Jay

- -----Original Message-----
Just saw one; debuted at the Cruise nite Saturday
The only one so far

OAI 4" hoses
Looks GREAT painted, will not look like chrome of course [except the lid]

Lansing's "Dr. Old[rocket]mobile" [No "S"] has had the mold made

Comes with hoses, Black or white Gel-coated Air Cleaner body, lid, filter, 
and FLANGES for fwd end of hoses to adapt to say your inner headlight 
housings.

He is comfortable at a price of $455.88 for the package.
I told him I would take 2 or 3 of them.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:01:28 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Blown head gasket implications

At 11:21 AM 7/19/2004, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Had some fun car times this past Saturday...  On my way to a friend's house
>(to redo my front wiring harness) I had to get on the W-31 a bit to bypass
>some impending doom.  Upon reaching my destination, I noticed white smoke
>pouring from my left-hand tailpipe.  Upon further inspection, I could smell
>antifreeze from said pipe.  Took a look at my oil, no milkshake or any other
>noticeable differences.  So, my assumption here is a blew a head gasket!  :(
>
>Having never dealt with such an issue, I'm wondering two things:
>
>How long I can safely drive the vehicle in this condition?  Meaning, I don't
>plan on doing any daily driving, but since I don't have the $$ to fix the
>problem right now, I'd like to put the car to rest in my garage which is 90
>miles away.  I assume the answer to this question depends largely on the
>severity of the problem, but if I were able to keep the radiator filled, and
>the situation doesn't worsen for oil/antifreeze mixing, would I be ok
>driving it this distance?
>
>Also, are there any implications for not fixing the problem right away while
>the car is in storage?  The thought of water/condensation in a cylinder is
>bothering, but I'm not sure how bad it would be to let the car sit like
>this!?

Depending on how bad the leak is, I suppose under the right conditions you 
could hydrolock the motor and bend a rod or break a piston from coolant 
filling the cylinder.

Are head-gaskets that expensive? I got good at doing them on my 403; only 
an afternoon's work and a trip to the machine-shop to surface the head 
(that only cost $35).


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:53:25 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

At Monday, 19 July 2004, you wrote:
>>From my 2001 CLEVITE engine parts catalog:
>
>Ford 289
>#216-1033 = intake and exhaust valve seal, except special 
>4 barrel carb 1963-1968, also 1962-1963 221 V8 and 1962-
>1965 260 V8 and 1968-1980 302
>#216-1052 = intake and exhaust valve seal special 4 barrel 
>carb 1963-1967
>
>I would have to see them both to tell which ones I use.

Yes, the Felpro listings did state "w/o hi-po" and had no separate 
hi-po listing. No idea what the hi-perf seals may be like.

>Usually, those seals are broken up and laying at the bottom 
>of the valve spring.

I really hope to find at least one broken up but so far, I haven't.
That bothers me a lot.

>#216-1063 = intake and exhaust 1969-1970 Boss 302
>Intake for 351 has 3 different seals listed for 1975-1979
>Exhaust for 351 has 2 different seals listed for 1975-1979
>
>Now that I look at the catalog, I think someone has 351 and 
>289 Ford valve seals mixed up.

Could be but remember there were two different 351s: the Windsor 
and Cleveland. The 351W was like the 289/302 whereas the 351C had 
the canted valves. Or vice versa, can't rember for sure now and with 
the way my memory's been working this past weekend when someone asked 
a question, I better hedge all my answers for the time being   ;o\ 
;o\  ;o\

>>DAP lists primarily Melling parts; what's your feeling of 
>>quality of those compared to Sealed Power (yes, I know: 
>>Melling is great for oil pumps
>
>Melling oil pumps are fine, but I wouldn't use their cams 
>or lifters. What else do they have?

Indeed???? Their lifters used to be what most the aftermarket cam 
grinders provided. Their cams are supposedly just regrinds, though.
According to the DAP site, they had all the other valve train parts:
springs, keepers, retainers, rocker arms and pivot bridges. Probably,
Melling makes most the other engine parts, too like rods and piston 
pins. My feel is Melling apparently concentrates on replacement parts 
rather than aftermarket or new parts, per se.

I really need to get a SP and Melling catalog.

Ordered the SP valve springs, rockers and pivot bridge assys, keepers 
and pushrods last night. Did get my old ones cleaned up nicely (except 
the springs, which will have to be done as I do each cylinder); carb 
cleaner with an acid brush did the trick on the rockers/pivot bridges 
but the pushrods had to have the dried, baked oil scrapped off. I'll 
just put them aside. Found most of the aluminum pivot bridges have 
at least slight galling but that undoubtedly won't affect the performance 
of a stock, high-mileage 307 in the least.

I wish someone made stock-type 1.75:1 rockers for Olds; would be 
a cheap/easy way to emulate a slightly-larger cam  ;o(

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:27:21 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

In a message dated 7/16/04 11:29:22 PM Central Daylight Time, 
ecker567@comcast.net writes:
- -- Answer: The orange wire is for the oil pressure.  The other two wires are 
for the fuel pump cutoff switch.  The function of the switch is to stop the 
electric fuel pump if you lose oil pressure while driving (saves the engine). --

Another place to look for this switch would be any 1975 -- 1980 Starfire, 
Monza, Sunbird or Skyhawk with either a V-6 or V-8 engine.  There isn't enough 
room in the engine compartment for a fuel pump on these engines, so the fuel 
pump is in the tank.  Oddly enough, the L-4 engines did get an engine-driven fuel 
pump -- so I'm casually looking for a fuel tank off of one of these in order 
to use an external electric fuel pump.


- -- Don't know if this sender would work with a Ralley Pac oil pressure gauge, 
but if so this would be an easy way to add this function. --
It won't -- warning light only.  It's odd to see a car with a full compliment 
of gauges and no oil pressure gauge.  In my Starfires I removed the clock and 
installed an AutoMeter 2-inch electric oil pressure gauge.  The sender is 
mounted on a T-fitting with the oil pressure switch, tethered to the engine by a 
steel braided line to the pressure port.

Hope this helps, Take Care!
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:01:24 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: cause of backfiring

> Generic motor question: Can a lean mixture cause backfiring through the
> exhaust? Like at idle and when blipping the throttle and getting backfire
as
> the motor winds down.
>
> Assume timing is correct and valves are good.


To backfire through the exhaust, one would need extra fuel available to
ignite. If the engine is lean, where would it come from? That's why exhaust
backfiring can be a sign of a burnt exhaust valve.

With the engine running at idle, hold a shop cloth dangling at the end of
the tailpipe. If the shop towel is periodically sucked into the tailpipe,
there's a burnt exhaust valve on that bank. If not, then the backfiring is
something else.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:09:02 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Blown head gasket implications

I don't know. The problem is severe enough that I couldn't advise, other
than fixing it, as soon as possible.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
To: "Olds List" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: Blown head gasket implications


> Greetings,
>
> Had some fun car times this past Saturday...  On my way to a friend's
house
> (to redo my front wiring harness) I had to get on the W-31 a bit to bypass
> some impending doom.  Upon reaching my destination, I noticed white smoke
> pouring from my left-hand tailpipe.  Upon further inspection, I could
smell
> antifreeze from said pipe.  Took a look at my oil, no milkshake or any
other
> noticeable differences.  So, my assumption here is a blew a head gasket!
:(
>
> Having never dealt with such an issue, I'm wondering two things:
>
> How long I can safely drive the vehicle in this condition?  Meaning, I
don't
> plan on doing any daily driving, but since I don't have the $$ to fix the
> problem right now, I'd like to put the car to rest in my garage which is
90
> miles away.  I assume the answer to this question depends largely on the
> severity of the problem, but if I were able to keep the radiator filled,
and
> the situation doesn't worsen for oil/antifreeze mixing, would I be ok
> driving it this distance?
>
> Also, are there any implications for not fixing the problem right away
while
> the car is in storage?  The thought of water/condensation in a cylinder is
> bothering, but I'm not sure how bad it would be to let the car sit like
> this!?
>
> Once again, you're collective knowledge is much appreciated!
>
>  ~ Dan
>
> -------------------------------------
> Daniel R. Gerow
> '70 W-31 4spd post
> dgerow@stonehill.edu
> http://www.oldsrocket.com
> -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: '67 Supreme convert pics

Very nice car!

What is the color name and code?

=====
John Pajak

http://jspajak.tripod.com


		
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:39:44 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

> Indeed???? Their lifters used to be what most the aftermarket cam
> grinders provided.


That I have to disagree. The Johnson Lifter Company, now owned by an
overseas group, supplied most of those lifters.


> Melling makes most the other engine parts, too like rods and piston
> pins.


I wouldn't say that. Federal-Mogul makes a tremendous amount of OEM and
aftermarket parts, especially now that they own almost everyone.
http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/homepage/index
Three decades ago, we had Sealed Power, TRW, Federal-Mogul, McQuay-Norris,
Clevite, I guess Melling, and a few others that I don't remember, all as
separate and distinct entities, fighting for a slice of the same pie. That
doesn't exist anymore with consolidation.
At http://www.melling.com/ , Melling appears to have only oil pump parts and
camshaft and timing parts, as per "products" on their website. The Yahoo
search engine blurb for Melling states, "Melling Industries, the number one
automotive supplier of oil pumps and high performance replacement engine
parts in United States and Canada." I would take that to mean the only OEM
stuff they do is oil systems, and everything else is aftermarket. See what
all their website says.


> My feel is Melling apparently concentrates on replacement parts > rather
than aftermarket or new parts, per se.


??? Non-OEM dealer replacement = aftermarket. OEM dealer replacement and OEM
= OEM, no matter who makes it for the car company. All auto parts stores and
speed shops are both replacement parts and represent the aftermarket.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4956
*********************************
