
oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, July 1 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4938



RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl
More on cluless mechanics
RE: Dist'r vacuum
Subject: timing tabs - plastic [large-damper] = steel
RE: Dist'r vacuum
RE: Timing Gear - Nylon or Metal ?
Distributor gear wear problems- use the correct plugs.
RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl
nylon timing gear
RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps
RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl
W/Z manifolds, handling, induction 1970 442
Re: nylon timing gear
RE: Dist'r vacuum
Re: The Delta Returns
Re: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps
Re: Dist'r vacuum
Stock vs. Restified
2 problems fixed
RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps
15x10 Olds SSII rims from Coker...
Re: 15x10 Olds SSII rims from Coker...
RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps
Re: Tubing Connections
Seeking pre-68 Throttle rod
the W-31 is now legal AND my personalized IL plate

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:36:46 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl

"Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
>must... stop... acquiring... engines...

Do you ever run any of them? I mean, I know they're all just sitting around 
loose, but have you tried making some sort of factory-style test bed, with 
quick-release connections for gas (or propane), coolant and exhaust, that 
would allow you to try starting up the complete ones? I know it wouldn't be 
a small undertaking, but you of all people...  :-)

P.S. There are some great shots of engine testing in "The American Auto 
Factory" by Byron Olsen and Joseph P. Cabadas. If you're anywhere near a 
bookstore, go in and find that book. I doubt you will leave without it.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:37:24 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: More on cluless mechanics

Oy
Latest 1968 350 engine... turns out has the F1 block, and rebuilt heads.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2483457469&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Clueless Mechanic did the valve job? Used a TON of silicone to seal intake 
at the rear. Lost a few items like plug wire looms. Lost a rocker cover 
bolt, and replaced it with... METRIC- which requires 10mm socket, neither 
3/8 nor 7/16 will do... and put TAPER SEAT plugs in. Sheesh. I guess heat 
transfer is not important from the plugs?

At least I saved it from further offenses.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:40:35 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Dist'r vacuum

>If a car over heats at 8 degrees initial advance, will it run
>cooler by setting it to 12 degrees initial advance?  I don't
>think so.

I believe it does. I'm not claiming expertise on this but I recall reading 
somewhere that if the car is running hot, one thing to be checked is the 
timing. Maybe it has to do with the amount of heat transfer that occurs due 
to the ignited mixture being in the cylinder just a little bit longer. (If 
Milton chimes in on this topic, ignore me. :-)

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:45:38 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Subject: timing tabs - plastic [large-damper] = steel

Preliminary investigation confirms my initial stance that the timing tabs 
are functionally identical for any 1968+ Olds engine with the large diameter 
rubberized balancer. Since they all use the same balancer, the tabs must 
bear the marks in the same places.

I held the large-bal plastic unit up to the mockup engine which wears the 
steel tab. Both the 0 and 12 degree marks appeared to be in exactly the same 
position.

If you insist, I will photgraph the metal tab at 0, remove the metal tab and 
install the plastic unit, and photograph it also showing zero, and repeat at 
12 degrees.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
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Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:48:20 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Dist'r vacuum

>If a car over heats at 8 degrees initial advance, will it run
>cooler by setting it to 12 degrees initial advance?  I don't
>think so.

Pardon me following up yet again, but I've got a cite now: In my Motor 
"National Service Data" book from 1973, under "Engine Cooling Systems:"

>Some models, with exhaust emission control, use a thermostatic
>vacuum switch to advance ignition timing in the event of overheating.

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:50:10 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Timing Gear - Nylon or Metal ?

From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Timing Gear - Nylon or Metal ?

Some of them are metal with a nylon backing. AFAIK the nylon is to prevent
the gear rattling against the block.
==============
I believe all the factory sprockets use nylon teeth
I have a nice NOS one if you like the silent operation as the factory used.
True, they "only" last about 10 years.

" prevent the gear rattling against the block" ????!!?!?!?

If the sprocket is hitting the block, you got problems.
Problems that the use of Nylon for teeth ain't gon' fix.
Maybe you meant against the CHAIN...
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:58:44 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Distributor gear wear problems- use the correct plugs.

Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:05:53 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>

The inner rear oil galley plug (I think the left side one) is supposed
to have a 0.040" hole in the center to squirt oil on the distributor
gear when the engine is running.  If your engine was rebuilt just prior
to starting to have the problems with distributor gears wearing out, is
it possible that this plug was replaced with a solid plug without the hole?
====================
I see this ALL THE TIME on engines that have been apart before.
Typical Clueless Moron Mechanic trick
Use all the plugs that came in the new kit, regardless of whether they are 
idenitcal or not.
Hole, what hole?

Thank God the front plugs are a) nonstandard, and b) not interchangeable.

Anyone need a 5/16 square male drive tool for removing and installing that 
plug?
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:14:34 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl

<snip> have you tried making some sort of factory-style test bed

You mean like a pallet with some lengths of 4x4 bolted to it to keep it from
resting on the oil pan or moving around? Having a cherry picker attached
helps too.

>with quick-release connections for gas

Like a fuel line running into a gas can next to the palette?

>coolant

You don't even need that unless you want to run it for more than a minute or
two. If you just want to see whether or not it will start, you're ok w/o it.
Again it's not that hard to run some hoses into a bucket though.

> and exhaust

Don't need that either. Hopefully the neighbors won't mind.

>That would allow you to try starting up the complete ones? I know it
wouldn't be
>a small undertaking

It actually is a pretty small undertaking, especially if you just want to
run them for a minute to see if they start.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:22:02 GMT
From: "njot33@juno.com" <njot33@juno.com>
Subject: nylon timing gear

The timing gear is usually metal with nylon coating the teeth to keep the noise down.

They strip out sometimes but not very often.

I had an 81 Buick Skylark with the 4 cylinder engine, which had meshed gears (no chain), one of which had nylon teeth.  I never had any trouble with the gears in 210,000 miles.

I wouldn't wory about it unless you're seeing bits of nylon in the oil when you drain it.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:36:03 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps

> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:05:26 -0500
> From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
> Subject: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps

snip 
 
> Front disc brakes are not an option, nor is improved handling 
> and I'm in the middle of this work.  

Hmm, I don't understand about the disc brakes, but I won't question 
you on that. 

Why is improved handling not an option? You could do something as 
simple as better springs and sway bar to improve handling, or maybe 
also add polygraphite bushings. None of those things will look any 
different than the stock parts and will drastically improve handling.

 
> The final question is with regard to induction and exhaust.  

You set out some exhaust options, but there was no mention of your 
induction dilemma. Care to elaborate on that?

snip


> Would you:  1. use the stockers - avoid all the headaches of headers
>             2. buy a set of new Kooks or Hooker Comps and 
> keep the stock parts

"All the headaches of headers"??? I really don't know what you mean. I put 
headers on my car back in 1982 and have never regretted it. Maybe I'm just 
lucky and over the last 24 years have never had any of the "headaches" that 
you're referring to. 

Well anyway, my vote is for headers.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:07:26 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yet another engine in- 1968 350-2bbl

>It actually is a pretty small undertaking, especially if you just want to
>run them for a minute to see if they start.

Well, okay, point taken (heck, I remember running a 5HP Briggs&Stratton 
go-kart engine on a picnic table once, held down with precisely one 
C-clamp), but I kind of like the methodical, engineering-y approach of 
making the whole thing look official instead of just fun...  :-)

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:28:45 -0500
From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
Subject: W/Z manifolds, handling, induction 1970 442

List,

This is a partial reproduction of a private response to clear up my
messed up post.   I was very tired when I wrote the initial poll, and of
course I was really talking about W/Z manifolds vs. headers in my 1970
442.

1st issue:
>> Front disc brakes are not an option, nor is improved handling and I'm

>> in the middle of this work.

That was poorly written - what I meant is that both systems are being
upgraded.  Tall spindle/big brake as well as bigger sways, better
springs, bushings, shocks, etc.   Any info you have is greatly
appreciated.

2nd issue:
>You set out some exhaust options, but there was no mention of your
induction dilemma. Care to
>elaborate on that?

I will try to keep the OAI system.  My only option seems to be the
virtually stock Edelbrock performer which maintains the stock geometry -
the stock design may not allow for much in the way of improved
aftermarket manifolds.  

Thanks, apologies for the garbled request in yesterday's post.

One thing - we have a nearly even split in opinions on headers vs iron
manifolds.

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:34:37 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: nylon timing gear

njot33@juno.com wrote:
> The timing gear is usually metal with nylon coating the teeth to keep the noise down.
> 
> They strip out sometimes but not very often.
> 
> I had an 81 Buick Skylark with the 4 cylinder engine, which had meshed gears (no chain), one of which had nylon teeth.  I never had any trouble with the gears in 210,000 miles.
> 
> I wouldn't wory about it unless you're seeing bits of nylon in the oil when you drain it.
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> 
> 
Hi
   Another point of view. I have seen quite a few nylon tooth timing 
gears fail. Not as many on olds as on pontiac. I replace the gears in my 
70 toro last summer. It would not start, the problem was jumped time. 
The plastic gear was completely shot. I replace the gears the oil pump 
and the screen. I have never and would never put anything but steel 
gears back in. I have never had a complaint or a problem with more noise 
from the steel gears. Just my 2 cents worth. By the way 30 years ago 
while working as an Olds dealership mechanic I replaced a set in a 
pontiac. My parts dept only had plastic gears and would not buy steel 
from an outside vendor since they had the parts in stock. I bought the 
steel gears myself. A couple days later a pontiac dealer called and said 
the timing gears were out of the car I had just put them in. I said 
maybe but I doubted it since steel gears were installed. I never heard 
from them again.
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:32:31 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Dist'r vacuum

At Wednesday, 30 June 2004, you wrote:

>>If a car over heats at 8 degrees initial advance, will it run
>>cooler by setting it to 12 degrees initial advance?  I don't
>>think so.
>
>I believe it does. I'm not claiming expertise on this but I 
>recall reading somewhere that if the car is running hot, one 
>thing to be checked is the timing. Maybe it has to do with 
>the amount of heat transfer that occurs due to the ignited 
>mixture being in the cylinder just a little bit longer. (If 
>Milton chimes in on this topic, ignore me. :-)

In the olden days of the mid-'70s in the Los Angeles area, they introduced 
a new emissions requirement where you HAD to install what was known 
as the "Echlin device". This gimcracky went into your upper radiator 
hose and consisted of a brass pipe with a Thermal Vacuum Switch. 
You hooked up your distributor vacuum advance line through the TVS.
What happened was that until the coolant exceeded some temperature 
above 220 degrees or so, the switch prevented your vacuum advance 
from working.

This had three severe and immediately-noticeable effects on a performance 
vehicle:
1. Without vacuum advance, you lost most of your performance.
2. Your engine also ran MUCH hotter, usually rising from a previous-
normal of 175-180 to over 200 degrees. By the time your temperature 
had climbed high enough for the dreaded Echlin device to open up 
your vacuum advance, you were usually overheating and boiling over 
;o|
3. Your gas mileage, if it sucked before now, REALLY sucked. Mine 
dropped from around 13 mpg on my commuter '64 Goat to less than 11 
mpg on a good day and more like 9.5-10 if I drove the car like I 
used to before having to put on the Echlin device.

The Echlin device supposedly significantly reduced NOx, particularly 
noticeable in the Los Angeles area where the natural confines of 
the LA basin caused still air to accumulate and not move out until 
evening off-shore breezes or Santa Ana winds arose.

It was VERY obvious to anyone that engines ran hotter without vacuum 
advance.

The way that we "savvy" racers got around the dang Echlin device 
was to install a wholly-mechanical distributor without vacuum advance 
;o)))))))

But the other way to get around the Echlin device was to simply modify 
your stock vacuum advance distributor by turning it into a wholly-
mechanical type and then plugging the vacuum line to make sure you 
NEVER got vacuum to the advance canister  ============8-O

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:56:39 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: The Delta Returns

Nick Dean wrote:
> Just saw Spiderman 2, and the Delta does make a return cameo.

You win :)

> Apparently Aunt Mae got the roof and everything repaired after 
 > all the mayhem in the first movie ...

Aunt May knows a good car is worth repairing :))

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:09:02 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps

I have to agree with Kenneth,

Hedman headers and no regrets on my SBO 350.


I did however use (2) Mr Gasket steel/fiber embossed header gaskets instead
of 1 gasket.

Pat Swanton
Winchester NH
1978 Cutlass Supreme
http://www.cardomain.com/id/swannys78

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:15:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Dist'r vacuum

> It was VERY obvious to anyone that engines ran hotter without vacuum
> advance.


Because without the vacuum advance working, the engine lost timing advance,
ran retarded in timing, which in turn caused the engine to overheat. That
does not mean that a vacuum advance is the best for an engine, it just means
that some mechanism for providing proper timing advance to the engine at all
RPM ranges and load must be in place.


> The way that we "savvy" racers got around the dang Echlin device
> was to install a wholly-mechanical distributor without vacuum advance


Precisely correct.


> But the other way to get around the Echlin device was to simply modify
> your stock vacuum advance distributor by turning it into a wholly-
> mechanical type and then plugging the vacuum line to make sure you
> NEVER got vacuum to the advance canister


Again correct. The only thing that matters is the engine is getting the
correct timing advance it needs at the RPM at which it needs it, for power,
fuel economy, and proper operating temperature. Any system that provides
that correct timing advance curve is okay, and both straight mechanical
systems and hybrid vacuum/mechanical systems are equally capable of doing
that. It's all in how the timing advance curve is programmed.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:27:44 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Stock vs. Restified

Hi Ian,

Nice score on the 442!

My humble opinion is that any modification made for performance and
safety can made as long as it can be reversed with hand tools. An
example would be headers. You could easily swap in the cast manifolds
later if you wanted to. But if you cut the roof to put in a cheap pop up
sun roof, then that would violate my rule. I also like to keep the paint
and interior to match the data plate.

Here is what I would do /have done:

1. Disc brakes are required for safety
2. Radial tires
3. Gas shocks
4. Sway bars
5. Electronic ignition
6. Turbo mufflers
7. Internal engine mods (cam, roller rockers, HV pump, etc.)

I like the stock look, so I do not go for aftermarket wheels or any body
mods. Same for the interior. I have my car stock looking but improved
for safety/performance/fun.

99% of the folks out there would not know the difference anyway!

Good luck with the car.

Paul Tumolo, Principal
Edusult Performance Systems
6 Clark Street
Medway, MA 02053
Office: 508-482-0184
Mobile: 508-789-8191
E-mail: ptumolo@comcast.net
Website: www.edusult.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:59:39 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: 2 problems fixed

Last week I completed the body on resto of our '67 Cutlass Supreme convert, 
except for the ongoing carb problem.  I wrote about a month ago, and the 
new float seemed to fix the flooding problem.  After the new float, it 
seemed fine, but would flood again after sitting for 3 hours or 3 days--on 
the next start-up.  Pulled top of carb off 4-5 more times, all looked 
OK.  Seemed like the needle wanted to hang up in the seat, so I removed the 
hanger thingy on the needle, dropped the float setting another 1/8", and it 
has been fine for a week.

Next problem was it failed the idle portion of the AZ emissions test--way 
high on hydrocarbons.  I figured it would when I went in since the tail 
pipe odor was bad.  At least I got a baseline for  the problem.  Ruled out 
poor ignition. Seemed like a vacuum leak, but all hoses, etc. looked 
good.  Another list member, Roy Lack came over on Sunday morning and we 
messed with it. Carb spray at the base of the carb made the idle surge, so 
we knew where the problem was.  He said he had a warped Qjet a few years 
ago, so we went that direction. Pilled carb and the carb, gasket, and 
manifold looked fine.  After a dew minutes, I wondered about the length of 
the bolts holding the front of the Quadrajet down.  They were 4" long, and 
were bottoming out about 1/16" shy of pulling the carb base to the 
gasket.  Put 3 1/2" bolts on the carb, adjusted the idle settings and it 
seemed fine.  Passed emissions yesterday with no problem.  Runs great now.

After owning a lot of cars, I have never seen these 2 problems, and never 
ran a needle and seat with no "hanger".  Makes no differnce.

Just thought i would share a couple of odd problems with the group.

Will have pics of the car up in a couple days for those who have asked.

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:09:18 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps

>"All the headaches of headers"???

How do you get to your starter? Simple in and out?
No rerouting starter wiring not to cook it?
Your motor mounts, don't they look like roasted marshmellows?
You undrhood temps, are they what they were before?
Have you done the lower suspension cotrol arms? The long bolts sometimes 
hit the headers.

Just a few things I'd call a headache. I had them with my hooker super 
comps on the 68 S.

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:55:49 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: 15x10 Olds SSII rims from Coker...

I wasn't aware these were available - here is the link:

http://www.coker.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16997&cat=&page=2

Also available in the SSI style:

http://www.coker.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17003&cat=&page=2

May be worth consideration for the back of the '78....  although 
clearance would likely be an issue.

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:27:20 -0400
From: "swanny" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 15x10 Olds SSII rims from Coker...

~snip~May be worth consideration for the back of the '78....  although
> clearance would likely be an issue.
>
I was thinking the same thing.

I still have the painted SS II as winter put awayers ;-).......

Pat Swanton
Winchester NH
1978 Cutlass Supreme
http://www.cardomain.com/id/swannys78
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Ecker" <ecker567@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; <oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: 15x10 Olds SSII rims from Coker...


> I wasn't aware these were available - here is the link:
>
>
http://www.coker.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16997&cat=&page=2
>
> Also available in the SSI style:
>
>
http://www.coker.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17003&cat=&page=2
>
> May be worth consideration for the back of the '78....  although
> clearance would likely be an issue.
>
> --
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net
>
> 1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
>    (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)
>
> 1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
>    (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
>     be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 02:37:01 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: YZ exh vs. Hooker comps

At 06:09 PM 6/30/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>"All the headaches of headers"???
>
>How do you get to your starter? Simple in and out?

Mine was.

>No rerouting starter wiring not to cook it?

No more than the usual routing to clear the cast iron guys and pipes.

>Your motor mounts, don't they look like roasted marshmellows?

Mine never did.

>You undrhood temps, are they what they were before?

Hood?? you use a hood??  :o)))))))

>Have you done the lower suspension cotrol arms? The long bolts sometimes 
>hit the headers.

Mine didn't.

>Just a few things I'd call a headache. I had them with my hooker super 
>comps on the 68 S.

AHHhhh... I was thinking bout my ole '64 and '66 Goats with the 421s, way
back yonder in the medieval '70s  :o)))))))

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 03:40:34 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Tubing Connections

At 06:18 PM 6/26/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>The neatest tube adapter fitting is made by Aeroquip. It is called the
>"Versil Flare", and allows steel tubing to be attached together without
>flaring.
>
>I also found a way to connect an aftermarket trans cooler to the GM hard
>lines without using any rubber hose or clamps.....

Well, don't keep the secret, eh  ;o\

I acquired a pair of the Crapice 9C1 oil coolers and have been wanting to
use one as a trans cooler. But I have no idea whatsoever what size fittings
these things have. I got the original lines that screwed into the coolers
but those are about 1/2" diameter with their own huge massive fittings.
Looks like I'll have to find step-down adapters to mate with the cooler
fittings then bend some steel line to join the cooler inlet/outlet with my
existing lines from the radiator cooler.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 08:17:58 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Seeking pre-68 Throttle rod

Hey folks
This time I need to BUY parts

Anyone got one of them throttle RODS used in the days of yore, before cable 
actuation?
Can be just about any model. Cutlass, 88, 98, Toro.
Has to have that adjustable swively ball end fitting about 2-3" long.
90 degree pin fitting on other end would be nice, but not necessary
Bent and mangled OK if priced accordingly.
I need a few of them actually.
Even the plain rods used on Cruise systems, w/o the adjuster but with formed 
90' end

Like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=2483259423&rd=1

THANKS!
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! 
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: the W-31 is now legal AND my personalized IL plate

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So, I took half a day yesterday to spend it at the local BMV (always a fun time).  I needed to get a sticker for my trailer, FINALLY get an IL drivers license and then apply for an IL title and plates for the W-31.  I'll skip the stories about the 2 rather unhelpful people I talked to and go right to the title/registration for the W-31.  An attractive woman auditor was helping me, so that was a plus.  She looked at the tax form and said nice car, I replied thanks.  I found out some interesting things regarding IL personalized plates.  You can't start with "W", those signify handicapped.  So that throws out like half my choices (have about a dozen).  I also found out for a passenger car plate you can't start with a number either.  Personalized plates for a B class truck CAN start with a number.  DOH!!!  So throw out a few more of my choices.  But Tina (her name is Tina in case you were wondering) said she could check to see if my choices were available.  COOL!!!!!  Finally something
 good about the IL process.  Indiana is sooooooo much easier in this area, I think.  So my choices in order of preference are 1. "OAI 69"  2. "I B STK 2"  3. "ITSA W31".  I should be getting a letter in about 2 weeks stating which choice I received.  Then in approx 2 months I'll get the plates.  However, I do have my temporary plate which is good for 3 months, so I can now drive the W-31.  The only problem with this is a) no insurance b) the original engine isn't in (at least not yet).  But hopefully James Aiello lets me come over this weekend and start that process.  I also asked Tina what advantages there are to getting an antique vehicle plate.  Well, there really aren't any other than the plate is good for 5 years.  I asked if this plate means I'm exempt from emissions testing and she replied no.  :-(    But, she did let me in on a little secret.  I can talk to my insurance agent and get 'show car' insurance and this would exempt me from emissions testing.  Hmm, interesting. 
 Insurance is the next major paperwork item to take care of with this car.  But the clock has begun.  My goal is to have her on the road before the end of the month.  Although, I may not get a few items back from the powder coater in time and I haven't even called them to see about a time frame.  So we shall see.
 
Chris Smetana
grp442@yahoo.com
 
1969 Cutlass S W-31   now legal to be on the roads
1970 F-85   always been legal, but have to pass emissions by end of the month.
1969 442 parts car
1970 F-85 parts car
plus a whole mess of parts for sale

		
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
- --0-2120608639-1088696266=:88616
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>So, I took half a day yesterday to spend it at the local BMV (always a fun time).&nbsp; I needed to get a sticker for my trailer, FINALLY get an IL drivers license and then apply for an IL title and plates for the W-31.&nbsp; I'll skip the stories about the 2 rather unhelpful people I talked to and go right to the title/registration for the W-31.&nbsp; An attractive woman auditor was helping me, so that was a plus.&nbsp; She looked at the&nbsp;tax form&nbsp;and said nice car, I replied thanks.&nbsp; I found out some interesting things regarding IL personalized plates.&nbsp; You can't start with "W", those signify handicapped.&nbsp; So that throws out like half my&nbsp;choices (have about a dozen).&nbsp; I also found out for a passenger car plate you can't start with a number either.&nbsp; Personalized plates for a B class truck CAN start with a number.&nbsp; DOH!!!&nbsp; So throw out a few more of my choices.&nbsp; But Tina (her name is Tina in case you were wondering) said she
 could check to see if my choices were available.&nbsp; COOL!!!!!&nbsp; Finally something good about the IL process.&nbsp; Indiana is sooooooo much easier in this area, I think.&nbsp; So my choices in order of preference are 1. "OAI 69"&nbsp; 2. "I B STK 2"&nbsp; 3.&nbsp;"ITSA W31".&nbsp; I should be getting a letter in about 2 weeks stating which choice I received.&nbsp; Then in approx 2 months I'll get the plates.&nbsp; However, I do have my temporary plate which is good for 3 months, so I can now drive the W-31.&nbsp; The only problem with this is a) no insurance b) the original engine isn't in (at least not yet).&nbsp; But hopefully James Aiello lets me come over this weekend and start that process.&nbsp; I also asked Tina what advantages there are to getting an antique vehicle plate.&nbsp; Well, there really aren't any other than the plate is good for 5 years.&nbsp; I asked if this plate means I'm exempt from emissions testing and she replied no.&nbsp; :-(&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But,
 she did let me in on a little secret.&nbsp; I can talk to my insurance agent and get 'show car' insurance and this would exempt me from emissions testing.&nbsp; Hmm, interesting.&nbsp; Insurance is the next major paperwork&nbsp;item to take care of with this car.&nbsp; But the clock has begun.&nbsp; My goal is&nbsp;to have her on the road&nbsp;before the end of the month.&nbsp; Although, I may not get a few items back from the powder coater in time and I haven't even called them to see about a time frame.&nbsp;&nbsp;So we shall see.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris Smetana</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 Cutlass S W-31&nbsp;&nbsp; now legal to be on the roads</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85&nbsp;&nbsp; always been legal, but have to pass emissions by end of the month.</DIV>
<DIV>1969 442 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>1970 F-85 parts car</DIV>
<DIV>plus a whole mess of parts for sale</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html">Yahoo! Mail</a> - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4938
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