
oldsmobile-digest        Friday, July 30 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4969



Re: Overhaulin' '68 442 - whole episode
Re: The Fast Lane
Headers for 67 330
83 delta 88 misc parts
65 442 chrome
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: Re-bodied car (way long)
Re: Headers for 67 330
Re: more VIN swapping
BB crank ID-ing
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: Re-bodied car (way long)
Re: more VIN swapping
TH350 upshift adjustment
Re-bodied car (way long)
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: Headers for 67 330
UNBOUNCE: '64 3-Sp tranny x-ref
Re: Q-jet IDing websites...
New Radiator Results
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
350 OK for Daily Driver?
WTB: pair of 14x6 SSII rims
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff
Re: more VIN swapping
Re: 350 OK for Daily Driver?
Re: more VIN swapping h/o frames?
cheap G-body
Re: 350 OK for Daily Driver?
Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:10:26 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Overhaulin' '68 442 - whole episode

At 02:42 PM 7/29/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Daniel R. Gerow wrote:
>
>> Here ya go:
>> 
>> http://megatron.stonehill.edu/video/overhaulin_68442.wmv
>
>Thanks Dan.
>
>Is it socially acceptable to prefer the "before" car to the "after" car?
>-- 
>
>Cliff "Pimp this Overhaulin!" Simpson

It better be, because I certainly do.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:38:06 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: The Fast Lane

> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:46:10 -0300 (ADT)
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Re: The Fast Lane
> 
> So #1 on his list is: a "'69-'72 Olds Cutlass 4-4-2".

snip

"... only three 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 convertibles are known to exist."
Really? I didn't know they were that rare. 

But then how about #5 on his list: the 1966-69 Chevrolet Camaro. 
Sure wish I had one of those ultra-rare '66s. 
Probably even fewer of those than the '69 442 convertibles.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:50:30 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: Headers for 67 330

Please send replies to the below address.
I am forwarding this to the list.

From: eboodoo [mailto:eboodoo@comcast.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:05 PM
To: PartsWanted
Subject: headers 


Need headers for my 67 cutlass, 330 cub. thank you

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:52:16 -0700
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
Subject: 83 delta 88 misc parts

Another one. Please send replies to the below address.
I am forwarding this to the list.




From: Canlish [mailto:canlish@rogers.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 9:57 PM
To: PartsWantedOldsNet@Oldsmobile.net
Subject: hello


I have a beauty- 1983 Olds Delta 88, rides sooo nice but needs paint job and
other knick knacks, hence the email, I'm looking for good condition hood
emblems and Tire hub cap locking emblems, outer silver trim pieces on
quarter panel etc...Should I send you a pic of her know, since im planning
on giving her a black high gloss coat with some medium tint to dark tint
windows.

You know of a part source besides scrap yards where I can pick up some GM
parts


Anyways, you have a wicked ass car man, and hope you can help me

Future Sleeper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:54:08 -0400
From: "sherman f higgins" <goodfoot@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 65 442 chrome

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Does anybody know where i could get the chrome molding for the front fender on a 65 442.
 I'm about to bring it in for some beauty work, and I can't seem to find 


sherman f higgins
goodfoot@ix.netcom.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Does anybody know where i could get the chrome molding for the front fender on a 65 442.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I'm about to bring it in for some beauty work, and I can't seem to find </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>sherman f higgins</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:goodfoot@ix.netcom.com">goodfoot@ix.netcom.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:46:14 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

Finally found time to reply.....

> OK, that works for you, but not all of us are willing to let go of the
> rarest and most fun of the breed that easily.

Easily? It took 3 years before reality set in and I started to part her out.
The fact that I had a business going under and was broke at the time...along
with the township on my @ss about the 13 cars I had in the yard helped
persuade me also. ;-) The sunroof was the last car to be parted...all of the
ordinary Cutlass' went first.

>WHY ARE YOU KEEPING THE TAGS?

I still have the rusted sunroof also.....I may not have the car, but the
title and tags are mine!!! Call it what you will....a momento or whatever.

>Swap tags.....you just made a different car.

> Does that only apply to certain classic cars, or aged cars?

Nope, anytime you do it.

 > previously here, when a late model truck gets rolled, it gets repaired by
> putting on a new body [cab and/or bed]. Is that fraud?

Guess that depends on where you live. Here in PA, that truck would get a new
"reconstructed" title and vin. It's a different car according to PA law.
Just a coincidence that I agree with it.


> I know vin swapping happens all the time. A few years ago, I unknowingly
> delivered a set of tags from a '70 442 to a well respected local Olds
resto
> person. Would I buy one of his restorations, should I have the cash and he
> has one up for auction at Atlantic City in January.....nope! >
====================
> Except for quality of work... what the hell difference does it make?
Whether
> a 442 was assembled from bits and pieces out of various bins at the
factory,
> or from bits and pieces in some restoration shop 30 years later... It's
the
> SAME PROCESS. Same parts. Same result.

Nope, I disagree. It's not an original car! Let's put it this way. There's
enough aftermarket parts to make a Mustang from scratch. Is it a true
Mustang? No, it would be nothing more than a kit car! Is my dad's '62 Austin
Healey kit car a real Healey? "F" No!! Is a 442 made from 20 other Cutlass'
and a some 442's real? Not in my opinion....it's a fake.

> Then... DESTROY THOSE TAGS.

WHY? They may look good framed on my wall someday. For now, they're staying
in my desk drawer.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:53:30 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

> Nope, I disagree. It's not an original car! Let's put it this way. There's
> enough aftermarket parts to make a Mustang from scratch. Is it a true
> Mustang? No, it would be nothing more than a kit car! Is my dad's '62
Austin
> Healey kit car a real Healey? "F" No!! Is a 442 made from 20 other
Cutlass'
> and a some 442's real? Not in my opinion....it's a fake.
Why do people make such a big deal out of whether a car is "real" or not? It
performs all the functions of a car, right? It goes from point A to point B?
Really, "real" 442s and H/Os are getting rarer and rarer every day. It's
getting to be that time that splitting hairs about whether a re-bodied car
like this is "real" or not. I tell you one thing, I'd get a lot more kick
out of restoring a H/O than a plain-jane Cutlass....even if it doesn't have
all the original bolts, tires and fluids! (Oops, I snapped a bolt, haul it
off to the junkyard, it wouldn't be "real" if I replaced it with another!)
Taking the modification route further, if my Cutlass came with a 350 from
the factory, am I limited to it forever? Does putting in a 455 make it a
"fake"? I don't think so; an engine is just as integral to the "realness" of
the car as the body shell is.
Sure, if you restore all your cars to Concours specs and expect it to win
shows with all your firewall stampings and grease pencil marks and correct
date-coded spark plug wires, fine, you can say it isn't "real", but for the
everyday guy who JUST WANTS TO DRIVE HIS CAR AND BE SEEN IN IT, it really
doesn't matter nearly as much.
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:06:59 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car (way long)

Milton,

> I have a question as to the above comment. It's one thing to have a
removed
> VIN tag sitting in a drawer without a car that it belongs to, and quite
> another thing to have that same VIN tag waiting to be installed on a
> replacement body for the restoration of the original car the VIN tag
belongs
> to. It goes back to lawful intent.

If you were to follow the law 100% here in PA, then the vin from the
original car and the donor car (along with both titles). The rebodied car
would then be inspected by State Inspection garage AND the State Police,
then when they say it's ok.....you would get a "reconstructed" title and new
vin from the DMV so it could be registered to drive.

Same thing with a car that has a salvage title and you repair. PA would
consider it a whole different car.

I have a friend that just went through this with a pick up truck. He took
two and made one good one. If he hadn't had it done at a bodyshop, nobody
would have been the wiser and he could have just used the title that matched
the cab vin and been done with it. Hell, I would have done the same
thing....it was only a mid '70's Chevy POS truck anyway. Not a 442, W31,
W-anything, not a rare car.

If we were just talking about some plain jane Cutlass, I would
say.....rebody the damn thing and be done with it. BUT how many people would
go to that trouble for a plain jane Cutlass that has no real significance in
the scheme of things.

I'm done now,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:24:07 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Headers for 67 330

http://www.kookscustomheaders.com/ is your only choice.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "67Oldz" <67@oldsmobile.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Headers for 67 330


> Please send replies to the below address.
> I am forwarding this to the list.
>
> From: eboodoo [mailto:eboodoo@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:05 PM
> To: PartsWanted
> Subject: headers
>
>
> Need headers for my 67 cutlass, 330 cub. thank you
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:33:15 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

> Taking the modification route further, if my Cutlass came with a 350 from
> the factory, am I limited to it forever? Does putting in a 455 make it a
> "fake"? I don't think so;

Ok, take a '70 Rallye 350. Add a 455...fake or real?

If this question started with someone swapping bodies on a plain jane
Cutlass...do you really think we would be having this discussion? Do you
think anyone would have replied? Hell, do think the question would have been
asked in the first place?

Modify the ordinary cars as much as you want, just don't pollute the gene
pool with fakes so that there's more "rare" cars out there.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:28:56 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: BB crank ID-ing

The crank has the following numbers: 39736, CN, CF, 179, 26

All numbers on different counter weights - according to the seller.

What is this?

Cheers, George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:42:05 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

> but for the
> everyday guy who JUST WANTS TO DRIVE HIS CAR AND BE SEEN IN IT, it really
> doesn't matter nearly as much.
> Chris


Right! That's exactly what Thunder is. She's only a 442 in name only,
because everything else got changed. She purposely is one of the last of the
true original late '60s - early '70s "Street Machines" and built in that
time period. Back then, Street Machine meant the same thing as Pro-Street
means today, just a different way of going about it. That's why her name is
"Thunder Lizard," for she is a dinosaur compared to today's Pro-Street
crowd, even though some of those folks can't seem to understand that early
'70s technology and today's technology are still based on the exact same
laws of physics and gets the job done in the same way with the same
efficiency.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:49:58 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Re-bodied car (way long)

> I'm done now,
> Randy


That's okay. :-) Just different jurisdictions. Oh God, you have to trust the
State Police to get the inspection done right.

A few years ago, I was involved in a car accident. Without going into
details, the AZ Highway Patrolman misread and misunderstood the statute and
gave me a ticket. I knew he had to be wrong. A close friend of mine is a
Tucson Police Department Traffic Detective. I asked Marty about it, he
reviewed the accident report from the Highway Patrol, the report itself
proved the patrolman screwed up, Marty went to court with me, and I won. I
sure wouldn't want an AZ Highway Patrolman inspecting my rebuilt vehicle.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 02:00:55 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

> Modify the ordinary cars as much as you want, just don't pollute the gene
> pool with fakes so that there's more "rare" cars out there.

Why is there so much infatuation with the rear sheetmetal of the car? Why is
it that a body shell isn't as replacable as an air filter? In the north,
sheet metal rusts just as an air filter becomes dirty or points wear
out...just takes a bit longer. Would anyone kill a car because of a bad
distributor or air filter? I don't think so. Why should the body shell be
any different? My car wasn't the same after I rebuilt the points...it was
BETTER.
A Hurst/Olds is made a Hurst/Olds by all the parts that accompany the
package. Bitch and moan about originality all you want, but when it comes
down to it, you're paying for the privilidge to have a dual gate shifter and
the H/O badge on the sail panel. Your comment of "polluting the gene pool"
really has its roots in selfishness; the more clones out there, the lower
the value of your car...I speak hypothetically, this seems to be the
attitude of the general populus. But what about those who do not have a 442
or a H/O? I'd settle for a rebodied (or even....god forbid...CLONED!) 442 or
H/O over a plain-jane Cutlass ANY DAY - so long as it's done well and with
care. -THAT- is what counts in the classic automobile market.
My car stopped being original 32 years ago, when the original owner changed
the oil.
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:40:37 -0500
From: Bruce Roe <bcroe@juno.com>
Subject: TH350 upshift adjustment

That governor could be duplicated exactly using a weight 
and spring kit.  Bruce Roe

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date:  29 Jul 2004 

Michael

> "go to your local Chevy dealer and order the entire governor assembly
for
a '69 Z-28 Camaro with a TH350"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:12:36 -0500
From: Bruce Roe <bcroe@juno.com>
Subject: Re-bodied car (way long)

While you guys are debating how many angels can stand on 
the head of a pin, I'll be busy racking up 200,000 or 300,000 
miles on as many Oldsmobiles as possible (using whatever 
parts needed to keep them on the road).  Bruce Roe

30 Jul 2004  "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Milton,
> 
> > I have a question as to the above comment. It's one thing to have 
> a
> removed
> > VIN tag sitting in a drawer without a car that it belongs to, and 
> quite
> > another thing to have that same VIN tag waiting to be installed on 
> a
> > replacement body for the restoration of the original car the VIN 
> tag
> belongs
> > to. It goes back to lawful intent.
> 
> If you were to follow the law 100% here in PA, then the vin from the
> original car and the donor car (along with both titles). The 
> rebodied car
> would then be inspected by State Inspection garage AND the State 
> Police,
> then when they say it's ok.....you would get a "reconstructed" title 
> and new
> vin from the DMV so it could be registered to drive.
> 
> Same thing with a car that has a salvage title and you repair. PA 
> would
> consider it a whole different car.
> 
> I have a friend that just went through this with a pick up truck. He 
> took
> two and made one good one. If he hadn't had it done at a bodyshop, 
> nobody
> would have been the wiser and he could have just used the title that 
> matched
> the cab vin and been done with it. Hell, I would have done the same
> thing....it was only a mid '70's Chevy POS truck anyway. Not a 442, 
> W31,
> W-anything, not a rare car.
> 
> If we were just talking about some plain jane Cutlass, I would
> say.....rebody the damn thing and be done with it. BUT how many 
> people would
> go to that trouble for a plain jane Cutlass that has no real 
> significance in
> the scheme of things.
> 
> I'm done now,
> Randy
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:58:46 -0400
From: OldsEnuf@webtv.net (Mark Sopp)
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

  My point to Chris was a point of economics...and practicality.
  I had to find out the hard..and expensive way during my rebuild of the
body.
  Changing...and restoring to EXACT factory detail....the quarter
panels,wheelhouses,trunk floor extensions, along with parts of the trunk
pan was an expensive proposition.add to that tthe labor and material to
both windshield channels and the cowl at the base of the channel of the
front windshield and...well...it got expensive...Quick!
   Chris` car has ALL these issues...and in 2004 dollars...a very costly
proposition.
  Swapping a body box,without all these problems is just good common
sense.
  Saves lots of money....loads of time and does a better job.
  Since when are the VIN ID parts not an original part?
  It still sits on the correct VIN stamped frame...and there is
absolutely no intent to mislead anyone..about anything.

  Miltons` comments....early on,were....as usual right on target.

Regards,
Markas 

http://community.webtv.net/vfquick442/My1970442

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 07:59:18 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

first off are you  aware that the 68-72 hurst olds  have a different frame.
secondly what makes the car  value is the fact its original.
i see what youre saying about cloneing a car,in every aspect  as long as done correctly it would
mirror the  442 or hurst olds, but  in the end its nothing more than a cutlass. 3rd if you try to
sell it with the correct vin and body tags  as a h/o or 442 for example and some how  new owner
finds out its not original. you will need a attorny and bail money.  i rolled my 1969 hurst olds in
mid 80;s some parts survived as so did vin and body tags. i had the remains  in storage. a fellow
paid me  alot of cash for the parts and wanted to purchase  vin and body tags. i would not sell
them. so he  stole them off my tool box. 4 months later i got a letter from virginia dmv asking if i
sold the car.i asked why. long story short.the person tried to tittle a 1969 cutlass ass my h/o, it
looked like a good copy, but in the end wrong chassis,missing rear sway bar, and other things, he
was fined and since it was wearing my vin tags i kept the car. virginia re vined it.  and in 30 days
after he got out of jail he came n got his car.
irony was i bought it back in 2 weeks and it was stolen along with my 68 hurst olds. while i was on
a med cruise.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping


> > Nope, I disagree. It's not an original car! Let's put it this way. There's
> > enough aftermarket parts to make a Mustang from scratch. Is it a true
> > Mustang? No, it would be nothing more than a kit car! Is my dad's '62
> Austin
> > Healey kit car a real Healey? "F" No!! Is a 442 made from 20 other
> Cutlass'
> > and a some 442's real? Not in my opinion....it's a fake.
> Why do people make such a big deal out of whether a car is "real" or not? It
> performs all the functions of a car, right? It goes from point A to point B?
> Really, "real" 442s and H/Os are getting rarer and rarer every day. It's
> getting to be that time that splitting hairs about whether a re-bodied car
> like this is "real" or not. I tell you one thing, I'd get a lot more kick
> out of restoring a H/O than a plain-jane Cutlass....even if it doesn't have
> all the original bolts, tires and fluids! (Oops, I snapped a bolt, haul it
> off to the junkyard, it wouldn't be "real" if I replaced it with another!)
> Taking the modification route further, if my Cutlass came with a 350 from
> the factory, am I limited to it forever? Does putting in a 455 make it a
> "fake"? I don't think so; an engine is just as integral to the "realness" of
> the car as the body shell is.
> Sure, if you restore all your cars to Concours specs and expect it to win
> shows with all your firewall stampings and grease pencil marks and correct
> date-coded spark plug wires, fine, you can say it isn't "real", but for the
> everyday guy who JUST WANTS TO DRIVE HIS CAR AND BE SEEN IN IT, it really
> doesn't matter nearly as much.
> Chris
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:22:24 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: Headers for 67 330

  just got mine from Nick.... they did a great job!
john
67 cutlass supreme


 http://www.kookscustomheaders.com/ is your only choice.
 
 Milton Schick
 1964 442 Cutlass
 imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:25:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: '64 3-Sp tranny x-ref

Not on the list, respond to Matthew.Scott@trw.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   "Matthew Scott" <Matthew.Scott@trw.com>
Subject: Hey guys.  I was wondering if you could let me know of a
        transmission that you can swap parts form.

Hey guys.  I was wondering if you could let me know of a transmission that =
you can swap parts form.  We have a 1964 Olds Dynamic 88 convertible 394 =
with a 3 speed synchromesh (series 34 and 35).  What has happened is that =
the input shaft bearing has worn the shaft out.  If you know of a trans =
that is similar enough that you can use parts from that would be great.  =
Or even a place that we could find a replacement trans.  Any info that you =
would have would be great.

Matthew D. Scott
Product Designer

TRW Chassis Systems
Linkage & Suspension Product Center
230 Louth Street, ST. Catharines
Ontario, Canada L2R 7B5

Tel 905-685-1931 Ext 310
Fax 905-641-7265
Email matthew.scott@trw.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:14:26 -0500
From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Q-jet IDing websites...

<<  I am now wondering whether one of those PN digits actually refers to
front or side-fueling rather than with which division's cars the carb 
was used.
Perhaps a close perusal of the Rochester 9A manual  will reveal that 
"secret"....  >>

Nope.
Descriptor of fuel feed direction was not part of the carburetor codes.

Possibly that had more to do with Q-jet casting series, as side-fed 
units needed some very specific machining, and just as obviously; a 
front feed didn't need a plug to be spun into the hole made by machining 
the inlet.

On the subject of related websites, it appears some domains do not check 
for domain inactivity....

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/thurlow/858/rochcode.html


Wow. I'd love to have that kind of spare time again......

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:33:03 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: New Radiator Results

I swapped out a stock 4 core radator for a Be Cool aluminum radiator in
my 70 442. The 455 is warmed over with a Engle 20-22 cam, ported heads,
and an Edelbrock O4B intake.

Before I made the engine changes, the stock 455 never went above 190
degrees. After the engine upgrades, the tempreture went up to 220-230
degrees. I attribute the added heat to more horsepower and a higher
stall Coan 11" converter.

My car has the factory transmission cooler, but I upgraded it to a
larger size.

The Be Cool radiator is part # 62008. The fit was good, but not perfect.
The hold down bracket on the top plate is about 1/2" too long. I did not
want to cut or alter it, so a small amount of "tweaking" made it fit.
The factory shroud fits perfectly.

The Be Cool radiator holds more coolant than the stock 4 core radiator.
It took almost 3 gallons of coolant to fill it.

The results are excellent: The car never goes above 190 degrees, and
stays between 180 and 190. This is with a Robertshaw hi flow 180 degree
thermostat.

The coolant mixture is 60% distilled water and 40% antifreeze. I also
added 2 bottles of Red Line Watter Wetter.

Paul Tumolo, Principal
Edusult Performance Systems
6 Clark Street
Medway, MA 02053
Office: 508-482-0184
Mobile: 508-789-8191
E-mail: ptumolo@comcast.net
Website: www.edusult.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:48:12 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

> Kevin and Eric,
> What carbs - distributors - advance do you run in your cars? I'm quite happy
> with my 11mpg in the city but I could have more with pleasure...
> TIA
> Matt
> 81CS 468

Sorry for the late response, I've been off line for about a week.

The carb is a 7029251 Jetted to 73 primaries with AX rods, fuel pressure is regulated to 5 lbs.

The cam is an Edelbrock performer with a comp cams roller rocker kit operating the valves in the #5 heads.

The ignition is a stock HEI distributor with an MSD module and in cap coil that fires through Taylor Spiro Pro wires to
plugs gapped at .060"

I run 20 degrees mechanical advance (distributor) set to 38 degrees total at 3000 rpm. Leaves the car idling at 18 BDC.
I run a 16 degree vacuum pot off of ported vacuum (not manifold). Total advance (all in) is 54 degrees at 3000 rpm.

TH350 trans with an 1800 stall turns a 2.71:1 rear. I plan on upgrading to a TH200 and a 3.55:1 rear for better
performance and hopefully a little more mileage in the future.

Fuel is always "Premium" (I prefer Shell Optimax) which pays for itself with the increase in mileage off this setup.

Any other questions, hit me off line at kcolund@shaw.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:22:15 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: 350 OK for Daily Driver?

Anybody have experience with the stock 350 4bbl in 77-80 Olds B or C Bodies?
Did it perform well for daily driver use? Climb hills without a whimper?
Terrible gas mileage?

The 307 in my Delta is about to turn 200K miles and it's tired. Won't hold
highway speeds up long hills. I wanna put a 350 in it but I don't want to go
through the effort if it'll still be a POS. My needs are (1) reliability (2)
economy and (3) emissions friendly. The late model smogger motors (A.I.R.
heads and low compression) will allow a stealth install that'd fool all but
the most Olds savvy inspector. I don't have time or inclination to tweak the
ECM to adapt anything radical. I don't want to spank ricers.

I only have one car - a big grey Oldsmobile. If the 350 won't fill my needs,
then there's a Saturn or Frod in my future. Please help me decide.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: WTB: pair of 14x6 SSII rims

- --0-452960023-1091203513=:28764
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm looking for a pair of the 68/69 14x6 SSII rims with bolt on center caps.  Trim rings and center caps aren't needed.  tires aren't needed either.  Just need good straight rims as I already have one that needs a lot of weight to balance it.  the other one I have could be used, but I'd prefer a real good pair.  I'm located in the Chicago area and my first preference is someone within a few hours driving distance.  Otherwise they'll have to be shipped.  Thanks.
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com


		
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Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
- --0-452960023-1091203513=:28764
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<DIV>I'm looking for a pair of the 68/69 14x6 SSII rims with bolt on center caps.&nbsp; Trim rings and center caps aren't needed.&nbsp; tires aren't needed either.&nbsp; Just need good straight rims as I already have one that needs a lot of weight to balance it.&nbsp; the other one I have could be used, but I'd prefer a real good pair.&nbsp; I'm located in the Chicago area and my first preference is someone within a few hours driving distance.&nbsp; Otherwise they'll have to be shipped.&nbsp; Thanks.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A><BR></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/10/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html">New and Improved Yahoo! Mail</a> - Send 10MB messages!
- --0-452960023-1091203513=:28764--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:20:03 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

Thanks Kevin for the answere - I write to the list as I bet we are not the
only ones interested in this topic ...
Looks we went the smiliar way ( Ed Perf cam & intake, Tylor wires, same gap,
MSD, Comp Cams kit ... )
My distributor is a Mallory magnetic one with vacuum advance connected to
the MSD 6A box...carb is still unknown inside, I will open it one of these
days, but I better have spares  before, like the power valve spring... I
must have a weeker one, openning at lower vacuum, not 13-14 like now, with
low gears the PV opens quickly...
I guess, with more cubic inches I will burn same more gas anyway, but I will
try to get the best mpg from the beast.
BTW - you mean a TH200-4R , right?

What tires do you use?
rgds
Matt


> > Kevin and Eric,
> > What carbs - distributors - advance do you run in your cars? I'm quite
happy
> > with my 11mpg in the city but I could have more with pleasure...
> > TIA
> > Matt
> > 81CS 468
>
> Sorry for the late response, I've been off line for about a week.
>
> The carb is a 7029251 Jetted to 73 primaries with AX rods, fuel pressure
is regulated to 5 lbs.
>
> The cam is an Edelbrock performer with a comp cams roller rocker kit
operating the valves in the #5 heads.
>
> The ignition is a stock HEI distributor with an MSD module and in cap coil
that fires through Taylor Spiro Pro wires to
> plugs gapped at .060"
>
> I run 20 degrees mechanical advance (distributor) set to 38 degrees total
at 3000 rpm. Leaves the car idling at 18 BDC.
> I run a 16 degree vacuum pot off of ported vacuum (not manifold). Total
advance (all in) is 54 degrees at 3000 rpm.
>
> TH350 trans with an 1800 stall turns a 2.71:1 rear. I plan on upgrading to
a TH200 and a 3.55:1 rear for better
> performance and hopefully a little more mileage in the future.
>
> Fuel is always "Premium" (I prefer Shell Optimax) which pays for itself
with the increase in mileage off this setup.
>
> Any other questions, hit me off line at kcolund@shaw.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:22:14 -0400
From: Michael McDonald <McDonald_M@72ho.com>
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping

On Friday, July 30th Ron wrote:

>first off are you  aware that the 68-72 hurst olds  have a different frame....

Hi Ron,

Could you please provide more details exactly how the 68-72 Hurst Olds frame is 
different than the other A-body frames?

Thanks and best wishes,

Mike McDonald
McDonald_M@72ho.com

1972 Hurst/Olds sunroof coupe
    "as seen on Speed TV"
   The American Musclecar    
            or
        www.72ho.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:35:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 350 OK for Daily Driver?

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Dave Cullen wrote:
> Anybody have experience with the stock 350 4bbl in 77-80 Olds B or C Bodies?
> Did it perform well for daily driver use? Climb hills without a whimper?
> Terrible gas mileage?

My departed '78 Delta had a 350 Rocket. It was a pretty good fit for that
car. I never had any complaints about power although I wasn't looking for
high performance out of it, but it never seemed strained. Truth be told it
didn't seem all that much different from the 403 in my Electra, although I
think the rear gear in the Electra was a lower numeric ratio so that might
have had something to do with it. My 350 was typical Olds i.e. always
started, always ran well, and had a leaky exhaust manifold. Gas mileage
didn't seem too bad, considering the size of the car. Can't see it being
too different from the 307.

If you can find a suitable donor, I wouldn't hesitate.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:26:14 EDT
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: more VIN swapping h/o frames?

- -------------------------------1091208373
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 7/30/2004 12:27:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
McDonald_M@72ho.com writes:
>first off are you  aware that the 68-72 hurst olds  have a different 
frame....
I have never heard this before,  should be same frame as cutlass/442. 

Vinny
68 H/O with correct frame (I think)

- -------------------------------1091208373
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/30/2004 12:27:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, McDonal=
d_M@72ho.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>&gt;first off are you&nbsp; aware that the 68-=
72 hurst olds&nbsp; have a different frame....</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>I have never heard this before,&nbsp; should be same frame as cutlass/4=
42.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Vinny</DIV>
<DIV>68 H/O with correct frame (I think)</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1091208373--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:19:40 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: cheap G-body

Last week I saw a G-body for sale for $375 in Newark, NJ. I'll be going by
there again on Monday. Anybody interested? If so, I'll check for a phone
number and see if I can take a quick picture or two.

It's got lots of dents & dings, and I don't know what the interior is like,
what size engine, or much of anything about it except that it's brown. It
was parked on the street though, so it must have a valid registration &
inspection or it would get ticketed. Might be a good parts car, track car,
station car, beater, etc.

John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:59:57 -0400
From: "Roc88ket" <roc88ket@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 350 OK for Daily Driver?

My dad's '78 Electra 350-4BBL went 300,000 miles. Best car the family ever
owned.


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Beaulieu" <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: "Olds List" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: 350 OK for Daily Driver?


> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Dave Cullen wrote:
> > Anybody have experience with the stock 350 4bbl in 77-80 Olds B or C
Bodies?
> > Did it perform well for daily driver use? Climb hills without a whimper?
> > Terrible gas mileage?
>
> My departed '78 Delta had a 350 Rocket. It was a pretty good fit for that
> car. I never had any complaints about power although I wasn't looking for
> high performance out of it, but it never seemed strained. Truth be told it
> didn't seem all that much different from the 403 in my Electra, although I
> think the rear gear in the Electra was a lower numeric ratio so that might
> have had something to do with it. My 350 was typical Olds i.e. always
> started, always ran well, and had a leaky exhaust manifold. Gas mileage
> didn't seem too bad, considering the size of the car. Can't see it being
> too different from the 307.
>
> If you can find a suitable donor, I wouldn't hesitate.
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>           Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:22:00 -0600
From: eric <aksoe1@sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: Without Driving off a Cliff

Sorry, been away a bit:
I went with non-fancy stock pieces, although I'm still working out some 
details.  My Current Carb is off a 1982 88 (it had the T200 Cable 
Linkage on it).  I actually have never managed to top 24-25MPIG on this, 
but it needs a rebuild (just picked up the kit).  Interstingly enough, 
My vacuum is far less on this under load than my old carb (2 inches).  
However, with the proper linkage the shifting is OK (I still am trying 
to get lower shifts).

For timing, I'm using a 1980 HEI Distributor, untouched, but way 
advanced of stock (+ an adjustable vacuum advance).  I want to get a 
recurved one, but I'm still learning on this.

As for carbs , I ordered a set of jets today, so I'm going to lean out 
my primary's some more.  From what I hear, any-speed drivability starts 
to suffer as you go away from the stock jets.  However, I only care 
about power at WOT, and highway mileage, so as long is it kind of runs 
at anything else, I'll learn how to deal with it (after all, you likely 
cant have everything).

So far, this project has been a huge success, and a lot of fun, so I 
intend to keep trying.  I figure I beat my goal of 25MPIG, so maybe I 
can hit 30 (though I reallly doubt it).

My next idea is some nitrous, so when you really want power, I can be 
right up there.


Cheers

Eric



Kevin & Casey Olund wrote:

>  
>
>>Kevin and Eric,
>>What carbs - distributors - advance do you run in your cars? I'm quite happy
>>with my 11mpg in the city but I could have more with pleasure...
>>TIA
>>Matt
>>81CS 468
>>    
>>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4969
*********************************
