
oldsmobile-digest       Tuesday, July 20 2004       Volume 01 : Number 4957



RE: cause of backfiring
Re: '67 Supreme convert pics
Re: Blown head gasket implications
rolling on 4.33s
RE: horn cap p/n 399332
Re: 1964 Cutlass and parts collection for sale in NJ
Re: cause of backfiring
RE: '67 Supreme convert pics
RE: Blown head gasket implications
Blown head gasket
Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???
Re: cause of backfiring
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Available: 1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Silver Bullet
Re: horn cap p/n 399332
RE: horn cap p/n 399332
double hump crossmemberes
RE: horn cap p/n 399332
RE: Blown head gasket implications
Re: '67 Supreme convert pics PIC H*LP!!
Re: horn cap p/n 399332
Re: double hump crossmemberes
1969 442 Convertible Owners?
RE: horn cap p/n 399332
New convertible top (DYI installation)
Re: horn cap p/n 399332
lifters, formerly Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:44:04 -0500
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
Subject: RE: cause of backfiring

A common cause that I have seen for backfiring is an exhuast leak.  I
have seen this with a leak at the exhaust manifold gasket.  I assume,
fresh air is being drawn in through the leak, and mixing with unburnt
fuel, then being ignited from another cylenders exhaust.  This has
happened to me a few times.

    mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Cullen [mailto:david.cullen@snet.net] 
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:38 AM
> To: Olds List
> Subject: cause of backfiring
> 
> Generic motor question: Can a lean mixture cause backfiring 
> through the exhaust? Like at idle and when blipping the 
> throttle and getting backfire as the motor winds down.
> 
> Assume timing is correct and valves are good.
> 
> drc
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:57:04 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: '67 Supreme convert pics

The color is the original color, Crystal Blue Iridescent, code D.  It was 
available on Chev, Pont, Buick, and Olds.  The RM brand code was 
A-1899--lacquer.

Joe Varley
     AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:03:26 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Blown head gasket implications

i would not drive the car. you will take the chance of severly overheating it and causing more
damage.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
To: "Olds List" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: Blown head gasket implications


> Greetings,
>
> Had some fun car times this past Saturday...  On my way to a friend's house
> (to redo my front wiring harness) I had to get on the W-31 a bit to bypass
> some impending doom.  Upon reaching my destination, I noticed white smoke
> pouring from my left-hand tailpipe.  Upon further inspection, I could smell
> antifreeze from said pipe.  Took a look at my oil, no milkshake or any other
> noticeable differences.  So, my assumption here is a blew a head gasket!  :(
>
> Having never dealt with such an issue, I'm wondering two things:
>
> How long I can safely drive the vehicle in this condition?  Meaning, I don't
> plan on doing any daily driving, but since I don't have the $$ to fix the
> problem right now, I'd like to put the car to rest in my garage which is 90
> miles away.  I assume the answer to this question depends largely on the
> severity of the problem, but if I were able to keep the radiator filled, and
> the situation doesn't worsen for oil/antifreeze mixing, would I be ok
> driving it this distance?
>
> Also, are there any implications for not fixing the problem right away while
> the car is in storage?  The thought of water/condensation in a cylinder is
> bothering, but I'm not sure how bad it would be to let the car sit like
> this!?
>
> Once again, you're collective knowledge is much appreciated!
>
>  ~ Dan
>
> -------------------------------------
> Daniel R. Gerow
> '70 W-31 4spd post
> dgerow@stonehill.edu
> http://www.oldsrocket.com
> -------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: rolling on 4.33s

- --0-838088274-1090262390=:6175
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Greetings all,
Well, this weekend, after many an hour.  And several beers, especially Sat.  I was able to roll my car out of the garage sunday evening on the new 4.33 rear axle I just installed.  Most importantly this means I have also fixed my fuel line (what a PITA), I just need to add a couple clamps/clips and it's ready.  The next step is yanking the drivetrain, only have the trans cooling lines and the TH350 kickdown cable.  I'm not sure when I'll be able to do this as work will probably keep me rather busy these next two weeks.  But time will tell.
Putting the new axle under the car makes it look rear good since it's painted black.  Of course then I also realize man, those springs and control arms really stand out since they are, well, rust in color  :-)))   The springs will have to stay for now, but the lower control arms will be swapped out for boxed ones that will be powdercoated and have polygraphite bushings installed.  And a powdercoated rear sway bar will appear under the car too.
I also found some new parts in boxes sitting in the car, which I had forgotten I bought .... 4 years ago!!!!!
 
Chris
grp442@yahoo.com
 
1969 W-31  temporarily discharged by the Dr.

		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
- --0-838088274-1090262390=:6175
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Greetings all,</DIV>
<DIV>Well, this weekend, after many an hour.&nbsp; And several beers, especially Sat.&nbsp; I was able to roll my car out of the garage sunday evening on the new 4.33 rear axle I just installed.&nbsp; Most importantly this means I have also fixed my fuel line (what a PITA), I just need to add a couple clamps/clips and it's ready.&nbsp; The next step is yanking the drivetrain, only have the trans cooling lines and the TH350 kickdown cable.&nbsp; I'm not sure when I'll be able to do this as work will probably keep me rather busy these next two weeks.&nbsp; But time will tell.</DIV>
<DIV>Putting the new axle under the car makes it look rear good since it's painted black.&nbsp; Of course then I also realize man, those springs and control arms really stand out since they are, well, rust in color&nbsp; :-)))&nbsp;&nbsp; The springs will have to stay for now, but the lower control arms will be swapped out for boxed ones that will be powdercoated and have polygraphite bushings installed.&nbsp; And a powdercoated rear sway bar will appear under the car too.</DIV>
<DIV>I also found some new parts in boxes sitting in the car, which I had forgotten I bought .... 4 years ago!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 W-31&nbsp; temporarily discharged by the Dr.</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/">Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!</a>
- --0-838088274-1090262390=:6175--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:46:05 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: horn cap p/n 399332

Nobody knows which Oldsmobile(s) this horn cap belongs to? Fred? Paul?

John Nasta


- -----Original Message-----

Whatever horn cap p/n 399332 is, that's what's on my El Camino. While I sort
of get a kick out of seeing the rocket emblem on my steering wheel, can
somebody tell me which car(s) this cap really belongs to? If anybody has
been desperately searching for this part for their Olds, let me know and we
can work something out (obviously I'd need to trade for or sell to buy a
replacement).

John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:08:04 -0500
From: SKammerer@alberto.com
Subject: Re: 1964 Cutlass and parts collection for sale in NJ

Gene,

Is your parts car a rolling/complete car?  I was wondering how easy it would be
to move.  How big a trailer would one need to move your collection with the
exception of a couple engines?

Thanks,  Steve K.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:05:59 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: cause of backfiring

Mike's right.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: cause of backfiring


> A common cause that I have seen for backfiring is an exhuast leak.  I
> have seen this with a leak at the exhaust manifold gasket.  I assume,
> fresh air is being drawn in through the leak, and mixing with unburnt
> fuel, then being ignited from another cylenders exhaust.  This has
> happened to me a few times.
>
>     mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Cullen [mailto:david.cullen@snet.net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:38 AM
> > To: Olds List
> > Subject: cause of backfiring
> >
> > Generic motor question: Can a lean mixture cause backfiring
> > through the exhaust? Like at idle and when blipping the
> > throttle and getting backfire as the motor winds down.
> >
> > Assume timing is correct and valves are good.
> >
> > drc
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:26:17 -0400
From: "Jay Britt" <jbritt67@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: '67 Supreme convert pics

I noticed that the shifter plate on the console is black instead of
chrome. Was it painted or powder coated?. I'd like to do something
similar on mine, but I'm not sure how it will look on a black console.

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:39:45 -0400
From: "Gerow, Daniel R." <dgerow@stonehill.edu>
Subject: RE: Blown head gasket implications

I don't think this made it through the fist time...

Thanks to all for your prompt and honest responses.  I figured as much, but
wanted to be certain.  At lunch I talked to a buddy who's going to let me
use a bay at his shop which is great when you live in an apartment!  I know
the heads will need to visit a machine shop, is there anything else I should
look out for/be aware of/pray in honor of?

TIA!!

 ~ Dan

- -------------------------------------
Daniel R. Gerow
'70 W-31 4spd post
dgerow@stonehill.edu
http://www.oldsrocket.com
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:52:08 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Blown head gasket

Are head-gaskets that expensive? I got good at doing them on my 403; only
an afternoon's work and a trip to the machine-shop to surface the head
(that only cost $35).
===============
Dang, dude, how far away is that machine shop?  I hope $35 is the round trip 
cost
:-)

I would not be surprised to find a cracked head and/or blown head gasket; be 
sure to have the head ck'd for cracks while it's off.

It should be drivable to storage- I'd wanna pull the head immediately to 
clean out the cylinders, prevent more coolant intrusion.

I would be worried about green juice being forced into the engine after 
shutdown by cooling system pressure. If you cannot remove the heads right 
away, at least drain radiator and block [both sides] as soon as it cools 
down enough. Better yet, pull the head right away, wipe out any coolant, and 
apply heavy oil to the cylinders to ward off oxidation. Mitaswell change the 
oil and filter too. Looking at intake gasket set, head gasket, oil change, 
coolant, and some time. Maybe $100 with machine shop costs and your labor.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ‘Dig Yourself Out of Debt’ from MSN 
Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:32:14 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

At Monday, 19 July 2004, you wrote:

>>Indeed???? Their lifters used to be what most the aftermarket 
>>cam grinders provided.
>
>That I have to disagree. The Johnson Lifter Company, now 
>owned by an overseas group, supplied most of those lifters.

Hmmm... I don't recall hearing of Johnson Lifter Company. But I do 
recall all my Sig Erson and Crane cams that I bought during the '70s 
coming with Melling lifters, in the Melling box.

>> Melling makes most the other engine parts, too like rods and piston
>> pins.
>
>I wouldn't say that.

I was guessing at the rods/piston pins; apparently, from their web 
site, they don't make those.

>>My feel is Melling apparently concentrates on replacement 
>>parts rather than aftermarket or new parts, per se.
>
>??? Non-OEM dealer replacement = aftermarket. OEM dealer 
>replacement and OEM = OEM, no matter who makes it for the 
>car company. All auto parts stores and speed shops are both 
>replacement parts and represent the aftermarket.

I was somewhat-loosely using the term "aftermarket" as meaning parts 
that aren't exact original-equipment replacements; for example, "speed" 
parts, if you will. Add-ons that weren't available from the factory.
GMB aluminum water pumps, for a specific example.

But you're right: a strict application of "aftermarket" would cover 
any part that's not what you would be able to obtain from the dealer,
whether it's "exact-replacement" or not.

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:43:02 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: cause of backfiring

At Monday, 19 July 2004, you wrote:
>>A common cause that I have seen for backfiring is an exhuast 
>>leak. I have seen this with a leak at the exhaust manifold 
>>gasket.  I assume, fresh air is being drawn in through the 
>>leak, and mixing with unburnt fuel, then being ignited from 
>>another cylenders exhaust.  This has happened to me a few 
>>times.

Another source of this, on later engines with the AIR pump, is from 
a bad or inoperative diverter/switch valve that's allowing the AIR 
pump to pump fresh air into the exhaust manifold. After the engine 
warms up, the AIR pump's output is supposed to be switched to the 
catalytic converter. If there's a problem in the ECM system, it's 
supposed to be routed to the air cleaner. At NO TIME is the AIR pump 
supposed to be dumping air into the exhaust manifolds/heads once 
the engine warms up.

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:25:29 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

Thanks - good info.
A nifty additional feature of the MegaSquirt EFI controller that I will  
be installing is that it cut's power to the fuel pump relay if it  
doesn't "see" a tach pulse for 3 seconds. Still, I like the additional  
security of the oil pressure and inertial switches. Belt and  
suspenders, as it were.

krw
On Jul 17, 2004, at 7:07 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:17:18 -0400
> From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install
>
> "Perhaps I missed it, but what particular part #/application is the  
> oil pressure switch? This sounds like a useful bit to have."
>
> Some examples of fuel & ignition cutoff switches:
>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-G1438&N=120  
> 302432
>   (7 psi switch, appears for ignition but could be wired to relay for  
> use with fuel pump)
>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MRG-7872&N=120 304679
> (also here for less:  
> http://go.mrgasket.com/ProductDetails.aspx? 
> brandID=1&productID=25724&txtSearch=7872  although photo is wrong -  
> this is a 15 psi switch for fuel pump)
>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-12-810&N=120  
> 300719
>   (fuel pump safety switch, cut-off pressure not specified but has  
> screw-type terminals rather than just male spade ends)
>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-4120223
>   (15 psi ignition cut-off switch from Mopar performance, can be seen  
> here:
>     
> http://www.mopar.com/m_perf_parts_product_part.jsp? 
> categoryID=10013&itemID=343  )
>
> Fuel cutoff also available from Carter, part# A68301, no other info  
> available on this part.
>
> In reality, any of these switches should be fine if wired to 2 relays  
> - one for the ignition power lead and one for the fuel pump, or  
> without a relay if used for the intended application.  The fuel pump  
> switches would be fine for ignition cut-off use, but the ignition  
> switches like the Summit brand unit may not be able to handle  
> sufficient current for the pump.  Given the 7 psi rating of the summit  
> switch I think I personally would go with that switch wired through  
> relay(s), although I do like the security of the screw connections on  
> the Holley switc(probably overkill there, though).
>
>
> For the record, I like the use of the inertia switches also, like the  
> Fords have - I believe many of the cars have it in the left rear trunk  
> area, while the later suv's were under the dash behind the center  
> console and the later trucks were behind the right kick panel - of  
> course this is subject to variation by year & model but I looked at a  
> 2001 F150 today and the switch was behind that kick panel - needed to  
> locate it to get the truck running after a crash.  I think most of  
> those switches can be easily retrofitted into a generic electric fuel  
> pump application, but they need to be accessible so that the reset  
> button can be reached in the event they are tripped.  They can be a  
> bit of a pain at times though, and if you add one of these I would  
> strongly suggest a little label on the dash or at least in the glove  
> box door advising of the switch's presence and location, in case you  
> are not the one driving one day when it is set off.
>
>
> - --
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                          
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                              
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans:  
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31!  
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be  
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:41:58 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Available: 1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Silver Bullet

Listmembers,

I received an e-mail from Dr. Arlene Marshall regarding one of these that's 
for sale up in Iowa, here's some of the details provided:

- -- All I know is the engine is 350 cubic inch ~ 1977 (the last year for this 
body style) Silver Bullet Cutlass (and then a letter; I will have to call him 
as I can't remember the letter) - automatic transmission.  It was an 
Anniversary limited release.  Most dealerships only got a couple each.  But the Des 
Moines Olds dealership was very large and they got 10 or 20.    Some in silver 
and some in this red.  It has a V-8 Engine.  It has red leather seats in perfect 
condition and the paint job is original; he has kept it in a garage and 
covered.  If you look in the door jam it is amazing that over that many years it 
has hardly faded.  I
always thought red was the worst for fading.  The paint has a sparkly silver 
in it and the red is not like "candy apple" red.  It makes me think persimmon.
This car has only 28,000 miles on it. --

Upon looking at the picture provided (and it's BEAUTIFUL!) I realize it is a 
'S' model.  I think I've heard listmembers mention Gallant Men of Oldsmobile 
models and we had KC One models, could this be one of these?

Either way, this is one excellent-looking car.  Dr. Marshall is looking to 
find out more information about these cars, including what would be considered a 
fair price.  So if you can assist, please contact Dr. Arlene Marshall at:
arlene@evertek.net

I'm sure if you e-mail her she would be more than happy to send you the 
picture file (162K size), it's an excellent example of the last big Cutlasses 
produced.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:47:27 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: horn cap p/n 399332

John,

Do you have a picture of the creature?  My Starfires have a smaller version 
of the early 70's Cutlass sport steering wheel, but I don't have one of the 
Cutlass models to compare the horn cap to -- maybe it's different.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:56:06 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: horn cap p/n 399332

I can get a pic next weekend.

Thanks,
John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of KS7RACING@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:47 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: horn cap p/n 399332

John,

Do you have a picture of the creature?  My Starfires have a smaller version
of the early 70's Cutlass sport steering wheel, but I don't have one of the
Cutlass models to compare the horn cap to -- maybe it's different.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:00:44 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: double hump crossmemberes

I've found this:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/gforce_double_hump_crossmembers_.htm

any use to anybody?
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:11:31 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: RE: horn cap p/n 399332

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27417_1090278691_0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Well, since you put me on the spot...
399318 through 399323 are caps in various colors that fit the '68 F-85 wood grain wheel.  My book stops at '68.
The microfiche (dated '83) lists a cap for '70-72 with custom sport wheel as 410064 (disc. 5/91).  My modern electronic catalog history shows a bunch of previous numbers (colors superceding to black as stock ran out), none of which are even close to your number.
This would leave '69 as a possibility - since I have no listing to confirm or deny.
Or, 399332 might be a casting number for the part in general, with 399318 thru 399323 being actual part numbers based on color - not a stretch considering the similarity of the numbers.  I have no way of converting casting numbers on discontinued parts.
Or, you could be lysdexic and your part number really is 399323, which is a turquoise '68 wood wheel cap, and not 399332.
Hope that helps.
Paul
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27417_1090278691_0
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<html><body>
<P>Well, since you put me on the spot...</P>
<P>399318 through 399323 are caps in various colors that fit the '68 F-85 wood grain wheel.&nbsp; My book stops at '68.</P>
<P>The microfiche (dated '83)&nbsp;lists a cap for&nbsp;'70-72 with custom sport wheel as 410064 (disc. 5/91).&nbsp;&nbsp;My modern electronic catalog history shows a bunch of previous numbers (colors superceding to black as stock ran out), none of which are even close to your number.</P>
<P>This would leave '69 as a possibility - since I have no listing to confirm or deny.</P>
<P>Or, 399332 might be a casting number for the part in general, with 399318 thru 399323 being actual part numbers based on color - not a stretch considering the&nbsp;similarity of the numbers.&nbsp; I have no way of converting casting numbers on discontinued parts.</P>
<P>Or, you could be lysdexic and your part number really is 399323, which is a turquoise '68 wood wheel cap, and&nbsp;not 399332.</P>
<P>Hope that helps.</P>
<P>Paul</P></body></html>

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27417_1090278691_0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:34:39 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Blown head gasket implications

I'm not sure what to tell you on this one. I had a similar head gasket issue after my first engine rebuild way back in my early college years. I kept losing water, and everyone I asked about it said if there was white smoke out the exhaust then it was a head gasket. There was no white smoke, so everyone said "Then it's not a head gasket, it's something else". I kept looking for that "something else" for several months, during which time I took at least one 120 mile road trip (with lots of stops to top off the radiator). When winter came, I added a gallon of antifreeze to the radiator and - presto - there was white smoke out the exhaust. Turns out no one ever asked me if I had antifreeze in the radiator, they just assumed that a broke college kid would put antifreeze into a new engine rebuild before ever making sure there were no water leaks. Hah. I was smarter than that - heck, I was an engineering student. One who was too poor to buy a deep socket to properly torque the head studs that have the alternator and AC compressor brackets attached, thereby allowing the head gasket to blow.

Bottom line is that I drove for many, many miles with a blown head gasket without any damage to the engine. The difference here is that my car was a 12 year old 1970 Cutlass Supreme that Dad bought for $800 and not a 34 year old W-31 worth who knows how much.

Kenneth 
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:41:30 EDT
From: Rcktpwr2@aol.com
Subject: Re: '67 Supreme convert pics PIC H*LP!!

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In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
Rcktpwr2@aol.com writes:


http://www.members.cox.net/varleyequipment/pics2.html



Would somebody mind sending me the pics separately? All of them don't seem  
to download when the site opens. Thanks,
 
  Bernie

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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
Rcktpwr2@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"=
><FONT=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
    size=3D2>http://www.members.cox.net/varleyequipment/pics2.html</FONT></B=
LOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Would somebody mind sending me the pics separately? All of them don't s=
eem=20
to download when the site opens. Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; Bernie</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:53:11 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: horn cap p/n 399332

> Do you have a picture of the creature?  My Starfires have a smaller
version
> of the early 70's Cutlass sport steering wheel, but I don't have one of
the
> Cutlass models to compare the horn cap to -- maybe it's different.

- ----------------------

Ken,

The horn cap, horn contact and wheel hub are the same.  The wheel itself is
smaller in diameter and has a different stitching pattern.  The Starfire
also had a color matched wheel rim while the Cutlass and big car 4 sport
wheels from '70-'77 all had a black rim.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:10:06 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: double hump crossmemberes

summit raceing sells them
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
To: "Olds digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; "G body Oldsmobile list List" <oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: double hump crossmemberes


> I've found this:
> http://www.transmissioncenter.net/gforce_double_hump_crossmembers_.htm
>
> any use to anybody?
> Matt
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:27:34 -0500
From: "Doug Newman" <newmand@oldsgmail.com>
Subject: 1969 442 Convertible Owners?

Hi All, 

Brad Bishop's 442 lineage poster is almost completed and ready to go to
the printer in time for sale at the OCA Nationals in Minneapolis at the
end of August.  (They'll also be available at the OCA merchandise
website at: http://www.carcrazymerchandise.com sometime beginning in
early September.)  He's changed up the format a bit because he's
received so many beautiful entries from '64 to '72 owners.  He's decided
to show a convertible and a hardtop version of each year from '64 to
'72, and the *only* one he's missing now is a stock-appearing example of
a '69 442 convertible.  He needs a digital shot of one with the top down
taken from a 3/4 angle from the front driver's side, no smaller than
1600 x 1200 pixels.    

Once again, If anybody owns a 1969 442; or you know of someone who
happens to own one and has access to a digital camera, please contact
Brad Bishop at both of the following addresses:

((Work)  mailto:BishopB@themarketingarm.com

(Home)  mailto:brad@batcreative.com

Or you can contact me off-list at mailto:newmand@oldsgmail.com.

The following is Brad's ad that appears in the July issue of JWO.  If
anyone needs to see an example of the required 3/4 angle mentioned,
please contact me off-list and I'll send you a low-res JPG of what he
needs.

Thanks again to all, 

Doug Newman                  1987 442              OCA # 30311
Columbus, MS                    

http://store.oldsgmail.com                             The Store    
http://newmand.oldsgmail.com                       My Home Page


This is the ad copy from this month's issue of Journey with Olds:

Hello, fellow Olds lovers. Do you have a spot on your garage wall that
needs something? Not just anything, but something Oldsmobile? Well,
worry no more as the solution is in the works. Graphic designer and OCA
member, Brad Bishop and new OCA merchandise coordinator, Ralph Gaines
have teamed up for a series of commemorative Oldsmobile posters coming
soon to a Nationals near you. 

Our first poster will be a 442 "lineage" poster that will capture all
the models of the 442 from the first one in 1964 to the last V8 rear
wheel drive model in 1987. The estimated size will be 24" x 36" and it
will be full color. 

Here is where you come in - we need your car! That's right; we are
opening the poster up for people to submit pictures of their cars and a
chance to be on the poster. We need all of the 442 models: 1964, 1965,
1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977,
1978, 1979, 1980, 1985, 1986, 1987. Your car must appear stock in closed
form. It does not matter what it looks like under your hood, or if you
have gauges mounted under the dash, etc. With the hood, doors and trunk
closed, it looks stock, including the wheels. The color of your car does
not matter either, just as long as it is a stock appearing color. 

The following are guidelines that must be followed. Any car submissions
that do not follow these guidelines will not be considered. Please
follow them carefully. 

A. All pictures of cars submitted must be taken from the front driver's
side corner at a three quarter angle shot. *Please see the image below
for reference. (*I'll send you an example Offlist if you need one for
reference.) 

B. Please be aware of reflections in your car's paint. The best way to
shoot your car is on an empty parking lot or road. The background will
not be included on the poster, your car will be stripped out, so be
conscious of the reflections and surroundings. 

C. All hoods, doors and trunks closed. No pictures of you with your car.
Your name will be on the poster under you car if yours is selected. 

D. Digital submissions are preferred and must follow these criteria: No
smaller than 1600 x 1200 pixel width at 72 dpi (dots per inch). Or,
6.75" x 5" @ 300 dpi. Basically, the larger the image, the better the
picture, as we will be scaling the images down in size. You can e-mail
the image to us. This will save some time. 

Your car does not have to be a perfect, best of class winner to be on
this poster. It must be a nice, stock appearing, presentable Oldsmobile.
We want everyone to participate. Although the true muscle car
performance didn't survive much after 1971, the 442 namesake did and we
want to capture that with this poster. 

We are under a tight timeline here as we are trying to have this ready
for the Nationals in Minnesota. Our deadline for photo submissions is:
July 27, 2004. Sorry, no exceptions. We have to allow for prepress and
printing time. Any submissions after this date cannot be considered. 

If you have any further questions, please feel free to send an email or
to email your entry: 

((Work)  mailto:BishopB@themarketingarm.com

(Home)  mailto:brad@batcreative.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:16:02 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: horn cap p/n 399332

Interesting. Mine is a 4-spoke wheel. I'm not sure what you mean by "big car
4 sport wheels".

John Nasta


- -----Original Message-----

The horn cap, horn contact and wheel hub are the same.  The wheel itself is
smaller in diameter and has a different stitching pattern.  The Starfire
also had a color matched wheel rim while the Cutlass and big car 4 sport
wheels from '70-'77 all had a black rim.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:25:36 -0500
From: "71 ragtop" <oldscutlass@cox.net>
Subject: New convertible top (DYI installation)

I got my new top for my '71  cutlass today. Been working on the frame off
restoration for almost 2 years now. I've done all the work myself, motor,
rebuilt trans, paint...So I may as well give the top a go as well. I figure
a person could screw up about 3 new tops before you get to the price a shop
will charge.

As I ready myself for the task. I wanted to ask if anybody has any good
input for me. Maybe some of you who have done this yourself might have some
good pointers for me. Like some Do's and Don'ts

Wish me good luck!
Tim
'71 cutlass convertible (soon to be completed)
http://geocities.com/twagor/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:20:29 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: horn cap p/n 399332

> Well, since you put me on the spot...
> 399318 through 399323 are caps in various colors that fit the '68 F-85
wood grain wheel.  My book stops at '68.
> The microfiche (dated '83) lists a cap for '70-72 with custom sport wheel
as 410064 (disc. 5/91).  My modern electronic catalog history shows a bunch
of previous numbers (colors superceding to black as stock ran out), none of
which are even close to your number.
> This would leave '69 as a possibility - since I have no listing to confirm
or deny.

I have a black one from a 69 Sport Wheel in my hand. The part No. on this is
403441.

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:39:20 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: lifters, formerly Re: Frod 289 Valve Seals???

> Hmmm... I don't recall hearing of Johnson Lifter Company. But I do
> recall all my Sig Erson and Crane cams that I bought during the '70s
> coming with Melling lifters, in the Melling box.


Johnson was the largest lifter manufacturer in the world. I don't know about
all of your speed shops, but all Sig Erson and Crane components came to us
from Sig and Crane in Sig and Crane boxes, including lifters. That was from
June 1968 to March 1975. My gut feeling would be that if someone sold you a
Sig or Crane cam and kit, and gave you lifters in a Melling box, the lifters
were substituted. That is not the way Sig and Crane lifters were packaged.

http://www.competitiveautoparts.com/direct_deals/toplineletter.htm

Competitive Auto Parts
... coupled with our purchase of the Hylift-Johnson Lifter Company, we are
in a very strong position to ... lifters (the "beautiful lifter") and
producer of Johnson tappets for over 50 ...
www.competitiveautoparts.com/direct_deals/toplineletter.htm - 29k - Cached

Competitive Auto Parts
... coupled with our purchase of the Hylift-Johnson Lifter Company, we are
in a very strong position ... to our OEM range. Hylift-Johnson:
World-renowned manufacturer of hydraulic lifters ...
www.competitiveautoparts.com/direct_deals/toplineletter.htm - 29k - Cached

Milton

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4957
*********************************
