
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, July 12 2004        Volume 01 : Number 4948



Re: window regulators for a 1956 Olds
Re: Horsepower TV has 442
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Thrust Bearing
RE: Info from PartsAmerica.com regarding GMB water pump
RE: Electric fuel pump install
Transmission crossmember group purchase
RE: Electric fuel pump install
Re: '65 442 shifters
Re: Electric fuel pump install
RE: Electric fuel pump install
RE: Electric fuel pump install
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Re: Info from PartsAmerica.com regarding GMB water pump
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Re: Electric fuel pump install
Re: Horsepower TV has 442
distributor placement, various GM engines...
Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...
Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...
Re: numbers matched info needed
Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...
dist cap placement/phasing?/vac adv.
Re: distributor placement, various GM engines...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:13:32 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re: window regulators for a 1956 Olds

There is a company that rebuilds window tegulators for Corvettes, and they 
work like a new one.  Check Corvette publications or an NCRS Driveline 
magazine if you can find one. Can't see where there could be much 
difference in the guts of the two types.

Joe Varley
       AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:59:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Horsepower TV has 442

> I was REALLY shocked at how they removed the front springs by not using a
> compressor, and just having a jack underneath the lower CTRL arm, and
> lowering that to get the spring to 'just fall out'.


That really is SOP everywhere I've been. I do the same thing, with
confidence. There's a way to do it without a problem. On occasion, depending
upon the application, the front spring can be installed the same way.

If one happens to work in a dealership or garage, the way to make money is
to beat the flatrate. If the spring can be inserted into the frame pocket
and the lower control arm and rotated for correct alignment, then have 2 or
3 other mechanics sit on the front fender to add weight. Then the lower
control arm can be used to compress the spring by raising the control arm
with a floor jack until the lower ball joint enters the spindle and the nut
can be started. Then, an air wrench will finish the job. That can be worth
20-30 minutes off of flatrate. The more flat rate can be shaved in actual
time on the job, the more jobs one can do, and the more money one can make,
as long as there is no come-backs. Later, you will help another mechanic
with a similar time saving request. That's the reality of how it works. If
one has a co-worker who works simply for himself, he usually doesn't last
long, for no one will help him.


> I also have never seen what the engine builder did by "Aligning the thrust
> bearing" (After install of the crank, before torquing the main caps, he
gave
> the crankshaft counterweight a hit with the steel hammer back once, and
then
> forward once.  Then it looked like he had a pry bar, or screwdriver
sitting
> somewhere by a main, to push the crankshaft one way or the other before
> torquing the main caps.
>
>
>
> ***  Has anyone ever "aligned a thrust bearing" like this?  I never have.
> ***


Yes.

>From the '65 Olds shop manual, page 3-62, Crankshaft, Installation, Item #4:

"With block of wood (Fig. 3-102) bump shaft in each direction to align
thrust flanges of center main bearing."


However, today on the same show, I think, I saw some things I couldn't
believe.

In Mary's new Rehab Hospital for therapy from her strokes, they had cable on
the TV. I was watching a custom car show on the Discovery Channel (it was on
before the custom motorcycle show) where they were building a car with an
all-aluminum body for custom car designer Boyd Covington (maybe that's the
right name). I saw some machining practices that I couldn't believe, let
alone believe they allowed to be filmed. A spindle backing plate was being
heated while the spindle shaft was frozen to press in for an interference
fit. The guy doing it apparently has an upper lip that doesn't move when he
speaks (I'm not making fun of him, just mentioned for I.D. purposes) and
he's obviously competent enough to use an auto-cad program to design parts,
but he clutched the first try at a temperature differential press fit in a
way that I couldn't believe. He couldn't seem to adjust an Oxy/Acly torch
correctly, nor realize when he needed to clean the tip ports to keep it from
popping. He didn't wear dark welding glasses when using the torch. He wasn't
wearing protective gloves to keep from burning his hands or to keep the
warmth of his hand from bleeding heat into the cold spindle shaft. Then he
misaligned the shaft and galled it when he tied to press it in. When one's
hands are cold or burnt, one isn't going to precisely align anything. He did
it again, and it worked, but still without gloves. While using the press, he
never wore safety glasses. Then, they managed to mismachine a custom wheel
hub center. The operator misread the CNC program and entered a wrong number.
They junked the part and said they'd bill the owner anyway for the bad part
and simply build another one. What!?! I'm sorry, but if you screw up, you
screw up. One only bills the customer for correct parts. Bad parts you get
to eat. I can't believe that program.

Then at Marcels Body Works (?), those guys didn't use one common safety
device for machinery that I saw. Also, they had never heard of wearing a
welding helmet while using a TIG welder. Real winners. There's sometimes
when one does something that might be seen as unsafe, but the observer may
not know the whole story. There are other times, like looking into a welding
flame or plasma arc without safety lenses, that's simply an universal
no-brainer for excessive risk. Go figure.


Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:06:22 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

> they mention a
> relay set up and oil pressure switch. Did you use either of those?


Not to horn in, but I don't. 12 gauge wire from the junction terminal on the
horn rely to the switch on the dash, 12 gauge wire from that switch to the
trunk where a bracket holds another switch, and twin 12 gauge wires with
inline fuses to the 2 pumps. I fuse as close to pump(s) as possible, for
that's where I expect a short to occur, if it happens.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 07:38:52 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Thrust Bearing

Using a BFH to whack the crank back and forth to align the thrust
bearing (#3 on an Olds) is standard operating procedure.

The shop manual shows it being done. 


Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:02:21 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Info from PartsAmerica.com regarding GMB water pump

"I recently bought one of the ASC pumps from Autozone for my 67 330. The
impeller didn't have enough clearance and would rub on the timing chain
cover when torqued down. After checking two others from their warehouse,
I gave up and used an AC Delco pump instead."

I had something similar happen with a parts store replacement water pump for an Isuzu a few years back (do not remember the brand though).  I just placed the water pump nose-down on the concrete floor, placed a socket on the impeller around the water pump shaft and gave it a couple of love taps to seat the impeller further on the shaft (of course, this was at about 2AM whan we got to that point, and I needed to leave for work at 7).  Only needed to press the impeller about 0.060-0.080" further onth the shaft to create the needed clearance and it ran fine for another 30k miles until I finally sold the car.


As far as the GMB water pumps, there has been some debate going on over on the Gmail list about this.  The 130-1260 and 130-1260P are 6" from base to fan mounting surface and hte 130-1360 and 130-1360P are 5.57".  The 6" pumps are for AC and HD cooling and trailer towing pkgs.  The 5.57" pumps are strictly for non-AC applications (I believe 1971 and later).  The pumps ending in "P" ar ethe performance pumps, with an extra plate welded to the back of the impeller to prevent pump cavitation and they are aluminum bodied pumps to reduce weight (at least the 1260P is aluminum, I have not seen a 1360P in person to confirm).  A couple years ago the 1260P pumps were in the $90 range.  Recently it was noted they were about $55 on PartsAmerica.com, but this $29.99 price from Autozone (although possibly an error on their part) is too good to pass up IMO.

Autozone also lists an ASC WP-455 which is the standard cast-iron replacement pump and an ASC WP-455HD, which appears similar to the 130-1260P based on price and description and weight, but the WP-455HD is not even listed on ASC's website and no other info has been located on this pump yet.  Entirely possible that this is the same pump being marketed under another brand name.  It has also been noted that the GMB pumps are being marketed by NAPA under the Duro Pro brand name. 

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:24:30 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump install

"Did you ever get your electric fuel pump installed? I'm thinking about
putting one in myself and was wondering how it went. I looked at Summit for
the Carter pumps Milton recommended and they mention a relay set up and oil
pressure switch. Did you use either of those?"

John, the main reasons for the oil pressure switch are:
1. to cut the fuel supply and therefore stop the engine in the event of oil system failure
2. to cut fuel supply if the engine stalls/stops (fuel line springs a leak causing fuel starvation, vehicle is involved in a collision causing engine to stall, etc)

The first reason is the best one to use the switch, but if you are using the electric pump as a booster to feed a mechanical pump then the fuel supply will not stop immediately just by shutting down the electric pump.

The switch itself cannot handle enough current to run the pump, so the relay is needed.

Also, depending on the pump, a pressure regulator (preferably the return-style) may be a good idea.

Another thing to consider is that electric pumps push much better than the suck.  They should be mounted as close as possible to the fuel tank and as low as possible also.

(Example here is the Purolator universal electric pump I had on my '85 Isuzu - replaced the mechanical pump which failed because the replacement mechanical pump was going to take 5 days to get.  The electric pump was rated for 6.5 psi, but would flood the carburetor during extended idling.  I installed a little generic non-return regulator just before the carburetor and had to set it below 2 psi to keep the carb from flooding.  This may have been partially due to a worn needle & seat in the carb but I never had a problem with the mechanical pump until the diaphragm ruptured and it began pumping gasoline into the valve cover area!  The Purolator pump also was NOISY on initial start-up in hot weather - seems like it got a little vapor-bound and had to recover its prime.  The pump was mounted on the left frame rail in the engine bay, below the brake master cylinder.)

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:32:15 -0400
From: Michael Ecker <ecker567@comcast.net>
Subject: Transmission crossmember group purchase

I contacted Rick Fisher (Monte group did a group purchase on 
crossmembers from him and gave good reviews) and here is his reply:

"Hi - yes, I would do a group buy for 5 or more people at $93 ea plus 
shipping or I do offer a discount to $118 for 2 or more.  These can be 
shipped individually but I need zips on each and one person handling the 
list of who's in on the group buy.  Each person can pay individually but 
I usually set a time limit for payment so it doesn't get too confusing.  
Let me know if either scenario works for you.  I'm attaching some pics 
for you of a t350/200 and a t400/200r4. I also make 4l80E, 700r4, 3 spd, 
4spd and "A" body crossmembers.  I do have a combo deal going with with 
control arms (both upper and lower) and a crossmember for $275.  Thanks 
- - Rick"

I'm definitely in, at that price I may get a T350 and a 200-4R 
crossmember.  Anyway, we have a volunteer to be the point person for the 
group purchase, so if you are interested email :  Spader13@aol.com

At $93 each, this is a steal!  And the combo package is attractive also....

Email me directly at ecker567@comcast.net is you want to see the pics 
Rick sent with the above note - they are pretty stout looking units.

There are also pics on his web site at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/rhfisher57

- -- 
Michael Ecker
Lehigh Acres, Florida
ecker567@comcast.net

1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)

1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:38:40 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump install

I'm considering an electric pump primarily because it seems to take 
the carb a long time to get sufficient gas from the mechanical pump 
for the engine to fire if the car's been unused for a while. I'm 
hoping an electric pump will get fuel to the carb more quickly.

The oil pressure switch seems a good idea, but I wonder if normal 
cranking oil pressure is sufficient to keep the fuel pump circuit 
closed. I guess it must be or the car would never start if the carb 
was dry.

John
68 442 convt.

>
>
>John, the main reasons for the oil pressure switch are:
>1. to cut the fuel supply and therefore stop the engine in the event 
>of oil system failure
>2. to cut fuel supply if the engine stalls/stops (fuel line springs 
>a leak causing fuel starvation, vehicle is involved in a collision 
>causing engine to stall, etc)
>
>The first reason is the best one to use the switch, but if you are 
>using the electric pump as a booster to feed a mechanical pump then 
>the fuel supply will not stop immediately just by shutting down the 
>electric pump.
>
>The switch itself cannot handle enough current to run the pump, so 
>the relay is needed.
>
>Also, depending on the pump, a pressure regulator (preferably the 
>return-style) may be a good idea.
>
>Another thing to consider is that electric pumps push much better 
>than the suck.  They should be mounted as close as possible to the 
>fuel tank and as low as possible also.
>
>(Example here is the Purolator universal electric pump I had on my 
>'85 Isuzu - replaced the mechanical pump which failed because the 
>replacement mechanical pump was going to take 5 days to get.  The 
>electric pump was rated for 6.5 psi, but would flood the carburetor 
>during extended idling.  I installed a little generic non-return 
>regulator just before the carburetor and had to set it below 2 psi 
>to keep the carb from flooding.  This may have been partially due to 
>a worn needle & seat in the carb but I never had a problem with the 
>mechanical pump until the diaphragm ruptured and it began pumping 
>gasoline into the valve cover area!  The Purolator pump also was 
>NOISY on initial start-up in hot weather - seems like it got a 
>little vapor-bound and had to recover its prime.  The pump was 
>mounted on the left frame rail in the engine bay, below the brake 
>master cylinder.)
>
>--
>Michael Ecker
>Lehigh Acres, Florida
>ecker567@comcast.net
>
>1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
>   (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)
>
>1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
>   (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
>    be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:45:29 EDT
From: R4C442@aol.com
Subject: Re: '65 442 shifters

- --part1_53.1046ac8f.2e22c8a9_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Fire away Eric...what would you like to know?
                                                 Ron Forsee
                                                 65-442 Original Owner

- --part1_53.1046ac8f.2e22c8a9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Fire away Eric...what would you lik=
e to know?<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;   =20=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =20=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =20=
 Ron Forsee<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;   =20=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =20=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =20=
 65-442 Original Owner</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_53.1046ac8f.2e22c8a9_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:51:52 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

Thanks, Milton. Sure seems like your wiring solution would be more 
than sufficient.

I checked a bit further on the oil pressure switch. It has three 
connections: ground, normally open, and normally closed. The normally 
open connection goes to the lead to the starter, so the pump gets 
juice when you're cranking. The normally closed terminal goes to the 
ignition lead. That's the connection that'll get interrupted if the 
OP drops to zip.

John

>  > they mention a
>>  relay set up and oil pressure switch. Did you use either of those?
>
>
>Not to horn in, but I don't. 12 gauge wire from the junction terminal on the
>horn rely to the switch on the dash, 12 gauge wire from that switch to the
>trunk where a bracket holds another switch, and twin 12 gauge wires with
>inline fuses to the 2 pumps. I fuse as close to pump(s) as possible, for
>that's where I expect a short to occur, if it happens.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:37:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump install

At 12:38 PM 7/11/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>The oil pressure switch seems a good idea, but I wonder if normal 
>cranking oil pressure is sufficient to keep the fuel pump circuit 
>closed. I guess it must be or the car would never start if the carb 
>was dry.

IIRC, those particular switches operate at about 7 PSI oil pressure; might
be higher, like 12 PSI but I believe it's 7.

So if you're seeing your oil pressure light flickering while idling, you'd
dang well better check the pressure with a gage and make sure the switch is
right ===========8-O

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:33:16 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump install

Simple solution to that: bump up the idle to boast the psi. Then, 
when the wife complains about the car creeping at stop lights. you 
feel fully justified in putting in that manual gearbox you've always 
craved!

John
68 442 convt. temporarily with a TH400

>
>
>So if you're seeing your oil pressure light flickering while idling, you'd
>dang well better check the pressure with a gage and make sure the switch is
>right ===========8-O
>
>SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:52:24 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

> Simple solution to that: bump up the idle to boast the psi. Then, 
> when the wife complains about the car creeping at stop lights. you 
> feel fully justified in putting in that manual gearbox you've always 
> craved!

Sounds like a win / win situation to me.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:26:43 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Info from PartsAmerica.com regarding GMB water pump

> "I recently bought one of the ASC pumps from Autozone for my 67 330. The
> impeller didn't have enough clearance and would rub on the timing chain
> cover when torqued down. After checking two others from their warehouse,
> I gave up and used an AC Delco pump instead."
>
> I had something similar happen with a parts store replacement water pump
for an Isuzu a few years back (do not remember the brand though).  I just
placed the water pump nose-down on the concrete floor, placed a socket on
the impeller around the water pump shaft and gave it a couple of love taps
to seat the impeller further on the shaft (of course, this was at about 2AM
whan we got to that point, and I needed to leave for work at 7).  Only
needed to press the impeller about 0.060-0.080" further onth the shaft to
create the needed clearance and it ran fine for another 30k miles until I
finally sold the car.


That makes perfect sense.


> As far as the GMB water pumps, there has been some debate going on over on
the Gmail list about this.  The 130-1260 and 130-1260P are 6" from base to
fan mounting surface and hte 130-1360 and 130-1360P are 5.57".  The 6" pumps
are for AC and HD cooling and trailer towing pkgs.  The 5.57" pumps are
strictly for non-AC applications (I believe 1971 and later).


What I'm really courious about is who is now making a 5.1" water pump for
'64-'65 applications required for both small and big blocks in the shorter
'64-'65 A-body engine compartments.


> The pumps ending in "P" ar ethe performance pumps, with an extra plate
welded to the back of the impeller to prevent pump cavitation


And my Sealed Power PC-320 HD AC 5.1" cast iron water pumps came with a cast
iron impeller that already has a back plate incorporated into the impeller
casting for that reason. The back plate isn't new.

Thunder was the only '64-'65 A-body I had personally worked with for 2
decades. Her systems are based on her original OEM dimensions. Since her
building started in '68, of course I had access to the right components. But
even in the late '80s through '93 when I bought the last water pump, to
replace the one on the shelf for the '64 Cutlass, I was able to get the
correct 5.1" HD AC water pump. The '65 F-85 got the same pump in '92. Since
I've not had any water pump failures since '93, I've not had the "pleasure"
of comparing the new PC-320 on my shelf with the current crop of Olds water
pumps that are available. I'm a little concerned the 5.1" water pump might
not be available anymore.

With a 5.57" tall water pump, Thunder's 1970 red RV Flexilite fiberglass fan
blade (rated at 8000 RPM) will be projected .47" further into the fan
shroud, potentially initiating fan blade tip cavitation. Her fan is
correctly positioned now. For the '65 F-85, a .47" longer water pump will
put the fan clutch right by the radiator core fins. That won't work. The 6"
tall pump would never fit any of my cars in this universe.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:47:26 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

One thing that bugs me about the oil pressure shutoff switch. It's main use
is supposed to be for safety, in the event of a car accident and the engine
stops. Then, the fuel pump shuts off. However, how many accidents have you
seen where the engine doesn't shut off and has to be killed with the key?
I've never had a car accident where the engine shut itself off. That covers
a few, especially when I was younger. The comment from John about having the
oil pressure shutoff switch set low enough so the engine will start quickly
is also valid.

The use of the oil pressure shutoff switch is more of a personal comfort
decision, IMHO. :-)

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Livingston" <johnliving@cox.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install


> Thanks, Milton. Sure seems like your wiring solution would be more
> than sufficient.
>
> I checked a bit further on the oil pressure switch. It has three
> connections: ground, normally open, and normally closed. The normally
> open connection goes to the lead to the starter, so the pump gets
> juice when you're cranking. The normally closed terminal goes to the
> ignition lead. That's the connection that'll get interrupted if the
> OP drops to zip.
>
> John
>
> >  > they mention a
> >>  relay set up and oil pressure switch. Did you use either of those?
> >
> >
> >Not to horn in, but I don't. 12 gauge wire from the junction terminal on
the
> >horn rely to the switch on the dash, 12 gauge wire from that switch to
the
> >trunk where a bracket holds another switch, and twin 12 gauge wires with
> >inline fuses to the 2 pumps. I fuse as close to pump(s) as possible, for
> >that's where I expect a short to occur, if it happens.
> >
> >Milton Schick
> >1964 442 Cutlass
> >imp@theriver.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 19:40:31 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump install

In a message dated 7/11/04 11:43:41 AM Central Daylight Time, 
johnliving@cox.net writes:
- -- The oil pressure switch seems a good idea, but I wonder if normal cranking 
oil pressure is sufficient to keep the fuel pump circuit closed. I guess it 
must be or the car would never start if the carb was dry. --

John,

The oil pressure switch GM used in my 1980 Starfires was set up this way, and 
without a relay -- just straight through the switch.  However, they also 
connect it in a way so that cranking the engine causes power to back through the 
switch from a wire that's connected to the starter solenoid.

An idea might be to use the now-unused extra terminal on an older starter 
solenoid (when they bypassed the resistor wire going to the coil on start-up) to 
also trigger the pump relay (in addition to the wire through the oil pressure 
switch) when the engine is cranked.  As I wire up the road-race car I'm 
actually installing an additional switch to bypass the oil pressure switch for this 
purpose.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:51:58 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Horsepower TV has 442

I'v seen it done


Allen Schwartz
A&L Enterprises
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Reed" <ssreed@direcway.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Horsepower TV has 442


> >Anyone catch todays episode of Horsepower TV?
> >They did some rear suspension and replaced a 350 with a 455 in a 442.
>
> Yeah I just watched it on my TiVo unit, after reading your post.  It's a
> nice looking '69.  I definitely would have stuck with the original wheels
> myself.
>
> Those TV car show guys always crack me up in the way in which they 'Just
> take this out, and put this back in' type of talk.  They don't tell you
that
> it'll take you an afternoon or so to do a rear end swap, or the drum to
disc
> conversion they showed.
>
> They also. NEVER tell you the cost of the upgrade.  OK that's well fine
and
> dandy that the car has had some serious suspension and drive train
upgrades,
> but what I think would be real beneficial to the person who has a car
> similar to what they are working on would be just that; a price tag.  I'm
> guessing they dumped in about $12,000 in today's show.
>
> I was REALLY shocked at how they removed the front springs by not using a
> compressor, and just having a jack underneath the lower CTRL arm, and
> lowering that to get the spring to 'just fall out'.
>
> I also have never seen what the engine builder did by "Aligning the thrust
> bearing" (After install of the crank, before torquing the main caps, he
gave
> the crankshaft counterweight a hit with the steel hammer back once, and
then
> forward once.  Then it looked like he had a pry bar, or screwdriver
sitting
> somewhere by a main, to push the crankshaft one way or the other before
> torquing the main caps.
>
>
>
> ***  Has anyone ever "aligned a thrust bearing" like this?  I never have.
> ***
>
> Just curious,
>
>
> Steve Reed
> '96 9C1 Chevy Caprice
> '70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
> '68 Cutlass Supreme
> Austin, TX
> http://www.sreed.0catch.com/html/cars.html
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:01:13 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: distributor placement, various GM engines...

All,

	I was pondering this the other day, and realized I didn't really know the
answer.

	I know the Olds small block and big block are externally the same except
for deck height.  Since the distributor enters the block directly behind
the intake manifold rather than through it, the same distributor can be
used on the BB and SB.

	Now, did the other marques do this?  Buick V6 and V8, Chevy V8, and
Pontiac V8 vs low-deck (265 and 301)....  do their distributors avoid the
intake, or go in via the intake?

	And yes, I think there's technically a small-block Buick V6 . . 3.0 and
3.3 are shorter versions of the 3.8, though I believe the 3.3 never had a
distributor.


	I know I've even had cars with some of these engines, I just have no
recollection whatsoever.


	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:30:40 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...

At 09:01 PM 7/11/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Now, did the other marques do this?  Buick V6 and V8, Chevy V8, 
>and Pontiac V8 vs low-deck (265 and 301)....  do their distributors 
>avoid the intake, or go in via the intake?

Poncho (except 301; I know nuthin bout that one) went in through the block.
All distributors were interchangeable from 389-onward, dunno about the 370
and earlier. There were slight differences between the pre-65
blocks/heads/intakes and I believe again even earlier pre-'59 but dunno
about the distributor. Not sure about that pre-'59 thing anymore.

Ch*bby SB and BB are interchangeable, go in through the intake. Seems to me
a Ch*bby and Poncho distributor were interchangeable, can't really rember
for sure. Somehow, I made up three Poncho all-mechanical-advance
distributors and one of those had the tachometer drive from a '57 Vette.
But I'm now not positive the bodies were actually the same: maybe I just
interchanged all the innards. I may be forgetting I had to use the Poncho
bodies and so just covered the openings left by the original vacuum advance
unit.

I'm sure the 229 Ch*bby V6 has the same dist as the SBC and BBC but dunno
fer sure.

Dunno anything about B*ick.

>I know I've even had cars with some of these engines, I just have 
>no recollection whatsoever.

Yeah, know what you mean. Seems to me now that I think of it the Poncho
distributor is longer than the Ch*bby, not interchangeable. But the guts
can be swapped. They both turn the same direction. Olds turns opposite and
so I doubt any innards would swap, they'd be mirror image of Poncho and
Ch*bby.

BTW, let's not be crossposting this kinda general inquiry to both the
G-body and classic reflector; the G-body reflector is fairly specific and
most those subscribers wouldn't have much idea about this kinda topic.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:22:42 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...

> I'm sure the 229 Ch*bby V6 has the same dist as the SBC and BBC but dunno
> fer sure.
>
I'm pretty certain that a V6 wouldn't/couldn't use the same distributor as a
V8, even  if Che*bbies have some peculiar traits. :-)

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 19:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: numbers matched info needed

- --0-860328818-1089600627=:89610
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 From that you can tell it was assembled in TX. Also, the vin 
derivative 
starts with 1, which can only be 1971 on a 455, since the weren't made 
in 
61 or 81. So, if you'd have my 455 out of the 442 all by itself, you 
could 
say it was a 71 455 that came in a car which was assembled in Tx. Hope 

George
- ----------------------
George,
A Chevy engine in your 442?!?!?!  SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!  The vin derivative stamping for an Oldsmobile starts with 3.  For example, 39M123456  breaks down as follows
3=oldsmobile
9=year of manufacture, in this case 1969
M=Lansing, MI  the assembly plant
123456=the last 6 digits of the VIN
 
Chris (no chevy engines in his Olds') Smetana
grp442@yahoo.com


		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
- --0-860328818-1089600627=:89610
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>&nbsp;From that you can tell it was assembled in TX. Also, the vin <BR>derivative <BR>starts with 1, which can only be 1971 on a 455, since the weren't made <BR>in <BR>61 or 81. So, if you'd have my 455 out of the 442 all by itself, you <BR>could <BR>say it was a 71 455 that came in a car which was assembled in Tx. Hope <BR><BR>George</DIV>
<DIV>----------------------</DIV>
<DIV>George,</DIV>
<DIV>A Chevy engine in your 442?!?!?!&nbsp; SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!&nbsp; The vin derivative stamping for an Oldsmobile starts with 3.&nbsp; For example, 39M123456&nbsp; breaks down as follows</DIV>
<DIV>3=oldsmobile</DIV>
<DIV>9=year of manufacture, in this case 1969</DIV>
<DIV>M=Lansing, MI&nbsp; the assembly plant</DIV>
<DIV>123456=the last 6 digits of the VIN</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris (no chevy engines in his Olds') Smetana</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A><BR></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/new/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail">Check it out!</a>
- --0-860328818-1089600627=:89610--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:10:31 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: [OldsGmail] distributor placement, various GM engines...

At 10:22 PM 7/11/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> I'm sure the 229 Ch*bby V6 has the same dist as the SBC and BBC but dunno
>> fer sure.
>>
>I'm pretty certain that a V6 wouldn't/couldn't use the same distributor as a
>V8, even  if Che*bbies have some peculiar traits. :-)

Yes, true. But I was thinking of the housing itself, and all but the
V6-specific parts like the magnetic reluctor. And, of course, the cap  ;o)

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:45:02 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: dist cap placement/phasing?/vac adv.

Hello
Did a 15.75@86mph in my 4400 pd 1958,the program is working.
Each time we have gone out this season we go faster.
Running the 371 with vac. plugged and total@3000 rpm was 36degrees did not make the car go faster 1/4 mile,she likes the vac. adv. plugged on and the timing a little less.
Jetting the car did not seem to help as much as i thought.
I believe the intake/distribution is not good on j2 intake.
Or maybe Milton is right and she needs the headers to breath right.
Some plugs are still lean looking and others have gotten alot more color.
I did hear tell of something today i have never done,,,phasing a dis. cap.
Take a old cap and drill/melt a hole in the top between #1 post and coil post.
With timing light and eng. on, see if the rotor points to post threw yer new little hole in top of cap.
I am guessing the little notch in the cap or dis body/points,variables could be not correct?
I got a old cap and believe i will try this tomorrow,,curious.
Thanks for any hints
Randy(needs a backyard dyno)H.
Maple Ditch B.C.


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:38:02 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: distributor placement, various GM engines...

> I know the Olds small block and big block are externally the same except
> for deck height.
> Now, did the other marques do this?


>From the Accel distributor catalog, engines that take the same distributor:

All standard deck height Chevy, '55 and up, except 348/409

Chevy 348/409/experimental 427 (used basic 409 block)

'62-'92 AMC/Jeep 290-401 V8

'55-'81 Pontiac 301-455 V8

'64-'90 Olds 260-455 V8

'61-'81 Buick 215-350 V8 (including '61-'63 Olds 215 aluminum V8)

'67-'76 Buick 400-455 V8

'68-'84 Cadillac 368-500 V8

'58-'76 Ford 332-427 & 428FE V8 big block

'62-'80 Ford 221-302 & 302 V8 Boss small block

'68-'95 Ford 351C (Cleveland), 351 Boss, 351M 400, 429, 460 V8 (big & small
block)

'69-'80 Ford 351W (Windsor) V8

'59-'79 MOPAR 413, 426, 440, 426 Hemi, all high big block RB engines V8

'65-'93 MOPAR 273, 318 ('67 & later), 340, 360, LA engines V8

'58-'79 MOPAR 350, 361, 383, 400, all low big block B engines V8

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #4948
*********************************
