To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #537


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 26 February 1997    Volume 01 : Number 537

Re: light covers
Re: Cotter pin reuse: RE Model T
Re: mismatched engine building advice needed
Truck wanted for project.....
350/200-4R/400 Trans in G-bodies....
Re: High RPM stress
CHAT GROUP
Re: Need help understanding brakes ?
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: Need help understanding brakes ?
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: 394 for sale...
Re: Water Wetter
Re: High RPM stress
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: Re: repaired antenna
Re[2]: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: Truck wanted for project.....
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: light covers
Q-Jet Carbs
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Re: Need Positraction
Re: Truck wanted for project.....
Re: Truck wanted for project.....
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Non-OLDS (Re: High RPM Stress con'd)
79 Cutlass Ralleye Pack
Re: Olds 403
Adjustable Valves
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
324 engine/transmission compatability

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:56:17 -0400
Subject: Re: light covers

At 04:23 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Junior627@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 97-02-24 17:20:28 EST, you write:
>>
>> << What exactly are "light covers"?  >>
>> they are the silver plastic things that go around your ligths and give your
>> blinkers anr brake lights color....
>
>
>Let me ask another way...  Is a "light cover" the same as a lense?
>
>John Schumacher
>NTOC#254
>OCA#021151
>64 D88
>69 442
>74 Supreme

No.

Anon. I

P.S. Take a sealed beam headlamp.  The lens is built into the bulb.  On your
car, if there is a cover over the headlamp assembly, for example, that is a
light cover.  Look at the dome light, it has a light cover over the bult,
but it certianly isn't a lens.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:56:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Cotter pin reuse: RE Model T

At 04:43 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
> Love those old planetary transmissions -- An old guy taught me how to drive
>one when i was twelve -- he he
>
>
I expect that that makes you one of the less than 10% on THIS list.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:11:59 -0400
Subject: Re: mismatched engine building advice needed

>
> So the parts I have now-        E block bored to 425 std pistons
>                                 400 crank, 425 pistons/rods
>                                 K heads rebuilt on the shelf
>                                 unknown cam/new(ish) lifters
>

I'll assume that the crank is the original one with the block. The E
casting is 66-67 which has a 3.975 stroke. I do not have the rod length
for the 425 in front of me. This combination could work. The operative
word is "could". You've got a good set of heads so if I were you I would
look for a good 455 core. I may get in trouble here but leave the doomed
pistons to the ch*vy guys. Get a good set of high compression small dish
pistons. And mind the tolerances. I had some pistons fall apart on a car
I had just bought and too tight tolerances were the culprit. If you
aren't planning to run this engine extremley hard then cast pistons will
be good and fairly cheap. The cam concerns me though, if it is to great
in lift then you may have valve train problems. If you do try to run
this current combination, try to get a set of 400 rods (if they are
different length than the 425) then you would have one of the best 400s
ever made.

Danny

------------------------------

From: Tom Millard <OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:57:33 -0400
Subject: Truck wanted for project.....

Bear with me guys, this is entirely OLDS related.  I am looking for an 81-86
Chevy pickup, 4WD, either 6' or 8' box, 1/2 or 3/4 ton, rust free.  The ideal
truck would be a Southern (N. or S. Carolina, Virginia, etc...) truck with a
bad motor (even a diesel would be fine...)

Here's my idea... I want to sell my one 79 Cutlass I use for winter
transportation.  To replace this, I want to buy a full size Chevy truck and
replace the engine with a 403 Olds I am getting soon. I plan on using an
adapter plate to mate the Olds bell patern the the Chevy trans.  I know some
of the earlier trucks had 5.7 diesels in them (OLDS DIESELS) so I plan on
finding a donor truck in the bone yard for the correct motor mounts.  The
rest of the accessories will be from a pass. car.

I also plan on using 78-88 Cutlass factory gauges to replace the original
dummy lights or guages.  I plan on filling the two 5" holes with the speedo
and tach and the 4 smaller holes will be filled with the water temp, oil
pressure, voltmeter, and gas gauges.

So I would have the best of both worlds... a full size OLDS POWERED pickup
that I can use in the winter and tow my red 79 Cutlass to the race track in
the summer....

Any thoughts or know of any trucks for sale???
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net (FORMERLY OLDSPWR@aol.com)
79 Cutlass - Street/Strip/Show
86 442 - Summer Driver
79 Cutlass - Winter Bomb
"Faithful to the Rocket Division"

------------------------------

From: Tom Millard <OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:57:42 -0400
Subject: 350/200-4R/400 Trans in G-bodies....

Al and all others:
A 400 is slightly longer than a 350/200.  When I put a 400 trans in my 79
Cutlass, I had to relocate the crossmember and shorten the drive shaft
approximately 1".  You also have to use the yoke from the 400 trans since the
output shaft of a 400 is larger than a 350.

Relocating the crossmember can be tricky though.  You CANNOT slide the
crossmember back on a 78 and up G-body.  The frame extensions end where the
crossmember bolts on.  Also keep in mind that the crossmemeber is mounted
'crooked' in the car and not straight across.  When I first put a 400 in my
79, I cut the extension off the front part of the crossmember and welded it
on the back.  I also had to extend back the mount of the trans, but it
worked.  I used this setup for 2 years, but I wasn't thrilled with it. Then
I decided to install a 200-4R in the 79.  A 200-4R's mount is in the same
place as a 400's and it will use a stock 350 driveshaft.  So here's my point:
Some late model G-bodies came with a 200-4R, so this crossmember should bolt
in the factory locations and mount up to a 400.  I have one in my garage and
will compare the 350 one to the 200-4R one.  Therefore all you would have to
do is aquire a 200-4R crossmember, set the proper pinion angle, and shorten
the driveshaft....(or you could use a dual hump cross member like I did...)

Any thoughts?????
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net (FORMERLY OLDSPWR@aol.com)
79 Cutlass - Street/Strip/Show
86 442 - Summer Driver
79 Cutlass - Winter Bomb
"Faithful to the Rocket Division"

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:05:19 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM stress

At 05:03 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>If an engine fails at high rpms, I would think it's a combination of the
>>cylinder compression and the reciprocating mass, as well as the high
>>temperatures.  That's assuming no material flaws, and good machining and
>>tolerances.  The stress on not only the crankshaft, but also the rods,
>>pins, bolts, etc. increases exponentially as the engine speed increases.
>>It's been a few years since I've studied this sort of thing but I'll pull
>>out the ol' textbook and verify this info.  This is an interesting subject
>>and I'd also like to hear what everyone else thinks.
>>
>
>Yeah, I'm not too certain on the subject, but I'd suspect compression
>contributes very little to the problems.  The high RPM, high compression or
>no compression (theoretically speaking) will still have the same
>reciiprocating assembly going at the same speed.  The compression would
>factor in as sealing problems, I'd imagine, like blown head gaskets,
>pistons, etc.  Granted, it will put more pressure on the rods and cranks,
>but not where they generally tend to destruct.  The momentum and inertia of
>the reciprocating masses at the upper and lower extremes of the throw
>results in the rod assy. to keep going (remember Newton?)  When the crank
>tries changing directions, things flex a bit while the rod and cap try to
>keep going down (or up; opposite of their newly desired direction).  This, I
>hear, is when the proverbial feces becomes scattered by the air movement
>device (PC stuff, ya know...:)  The high compression will make the speed
>easier to reach, but the RPM at which self destruction occurs should remain
>relatively constant.  i.e. if you were to take a 4 speed f*rd, and remove
>the spark plugs so there is no compression at all (removing the plugs
>~there~ might be optional:) and then towed the car with your Olds, leaving
>the f*rd in first so the engine rotates, the engine would still reach
>critical RPM with ~no~ compression, and become even more dead-in-the-water
>than it started as.  It's my guess that the RPM it dies at would be the same
>with or without compression.  I've never seen any proving grounds to test
>that idea, though.  Any volunteers?  You can use my neighbor's f*rd, as long
>as you go in a straight line -- no keys, ya know... :)
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)
>
>
>

Charles,

With great political correctness, I believe that you have become part of the
Ms-Mr-Miss-Mrs-informed about 'critical RPM' which has nothing what-so-ever
to do with anything you were referencing in your post.

I doubt that any hydrocarbon fueled reciprocating engine manufacturer in the
world market an engine that is fueled by one of these products, namely,
gasoline that has a 'critical speed.'  He could not afford the warranty costs.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Todd Wallin" <twallin@grant.tds.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:10:02 -0400
Subject: CHAT GROUP

I am interested in either individual chat or hosting a conference for
oldsmobile chat.  Currently I use the powwow chat program but am open
to suggestions.  Let me know if anyone is interested and I will set
things up to work out the best for the most people.  Just want to
talk to people about these wonderful cars.

Todd Wallin
twallin@grant.tds.net

------------------------------

From: "Todd Wallin" <twallin@grant.tds.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:10:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Need help understanding brakes ?

about your brakes problem,

your front brakes do somewhere between 70-80% of you braking on the
ciera.  No it does not take brakes time to work if the guy at the
shop told you that I would never go back to that shop again, he is
either an unqualified idiot or is trying to get money out of you.  I
would suspect the front brakes, new pads should be about $20 for this
car and I would have the rotors turned or put on new ones.  This is
just an EDUCATED guess since I cannot inspect them myself from here.
I am an automotive technician just so you know my background.  If you
need anymore help let me know.  I don't claim to always be correct
but I usually shoot about 90%.

Todd Wallin
twallin@grant.tds.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:13:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

william goodnight wrote:
> >
> >And sir, I do know what '49-'50 Oldsmobiles
> >look like, and I think they are quite beautiful.
> >
> >To everybody else on the list -- sorry for the non subject, but he
> >got my dander up!
> >
> > '65 Starfire
> > '65 T-Bird -- original
> > '57 Buick Roadmaster ragtop
> > '73 Cougar convertible
> >
> >Shaun R. Guillermin
> >
> >
> >Hey!  At least I got more space for early Olds' than this page has seen in
> a year!  You're my kind of kid!
> Bill Goodnight


Bill,

I'm happy that you posted your complaint.  These cars haven't been
discussed.  I would discuss them if I had much information on them.  I
did a piece for Bryceman's page on a comparison of the '53 98
convertible & the '53 Fiesta but beyond something like this I only know
a little.

I have a good friend w/an original 38000 mi '55 Super 88 Holiday Sedan.
What a magnificent car!  They are so lovely, but I haven't had an
opportunity to own one that I can afford.

Tell us some about your cars.  I believe that you'll get a lot of notice
if you give it a try.  Don't wait for us who don't have the same fortune
as you to get the ball rolling.  Get it started & I believe that you'll
get results.

Topic suggestions:

Water wetter from the fifties.
Is that pronounced Super Eight Eight or is it Super Eighty-Eight?
Conversion of Hydra-Matics to Dynaflows.
Will the head on a flat head 8 fit on the ohv 8?


Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:23:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Need help understanding brakes ?

At 05:35 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>	The stopping distance on my 89 CUT CIERA had increased lately.
>Also I had to press the break quite hard to stop the car, so I took
>the car to shop and I got the rear breaks done( this include both drums,
>shoes and H/W kit). Within week time one  shoe had a crack, so under
>life-time warrenty got it replaced. But still the break feel has not
>improved. It still takes the same pressure and same distance to stop
>the car. The mechanic tells me it takes time for the new brakes to
>start showing the difference.
>
>	Does that mean there is no difference of putting the new brakes
>initially ? also there was no explanation about the crak on the shoe he just
>replaced it, can there be  other probelm  which he did not understood
>(there is no  cylinder leak)? The old drums had got thin on one side, so they
 >were not used evenly. > >	Also the mechanic suggested to replace front
breaks(rotars, pads and >shims), which I don't want to do because some other
shop has suggested >front breaks are OK for now. Also I want to differ this
activity till >I find out the rear break work has made any difference. >
>	Any help is appritiated. > >Thanks > > >Prashant > >-- >Prashant Ghude
>Bellcore RRC 4D-351  				email : 
ghude@iscp.bellcore.com >444 Hoes Lane
					Tel   : 908 699-8082 (W) >Piscataway, NJ  
08854-4182			 > > >
Well when the brakes break replace them.  What the mechanic was probably
trying to indicate to you, which he may have learned by experience is that
when drum brakes are new, they usually are not ground to the same diameter as
the drums.  On large trucks they often do grind the shoes to the same diameter
as the drums, but this is seldom, if ever the case with automobiles.  So the
shoes are usually slightly smaller in radius than the drums they are rubbing
against.  At the FIRST brake application there is but a fine line of contact,
which enlarges after the shoe lining wears.  It does not take a long time for
the shoes to take the same shape as the durms however, and should be well worn
in after a days driving; with brake action improving all the time.  If they do
not get better quickly then the problem lies elsewhere.  The drums were opened
up too large, or the shoes were not of the proper size to begin with.

Also in a standard American automobile, and others I expect, the front
brakes do about 2/3rds of the stopping, and the rears about 1/3rd, so in
practice faulty rear brake action will not be as easily noticed as faulty
front (disc) brake action.  As pressure on the brake pedal increases action
on the front brakes is basically linear; while the action on drum brakes is
almost exponential, ie, on the rears; if you double brake pressure, you get
more than double pressure of the stopping shoe against the surface of the
drum.  The effect is less, because the rears do less of the total work.
Also, in a high "G" stop, more of the mass of the vehicle is pushed over the
front of the car, and the front brakes do an even greater percentage of the
work.  And the mathematics goes completely awry, when you have pushed hard
enough to lock the brakes, and the wheels stop turning.

The disc brakes pads should not need replacing until the rotor is all but in
striking distance of the rivets.  But at that time, they need replacing and
they need it fast.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:28:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

ANTIQOLDS@aol.com wrote:
>
> I'll join a 50's list as my 61 STARFIRE is getting lonely also
>
> Everett

Everett,

Seeing as how I love those '61 Starfires & this group needs to be
represented, why don't you tell us something about these cars?  I have a
'62 Jetfire which is a poor relative of the above.  I have also spent
part of the day scoping out a '62 Starfire for the 394 engine that Esko
may want.  Those are nice, nice cars.

Possibly you could tell us about Starfire values.  What does one look
for when wanting to purchase one of these?  Do you know of any that can
be found.  What do you do about that fancy trim?  Can the leather be
duplicated successfully?  I'd love one, but they are so rare & usually
expensive.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:34:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 394 for sale...

At 10:21 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>John
> I have a 64 Dynamic 88 I'm parting out, it is still running and driving, its
>body is real bad. I'll sell the eng & trans for 650.00 strap it to a pallet
>and plster pack it and ship it freight collect to Dallas by Yellow Freight
> truck line from Providence, R.I.
>
>
>Everett 401-435-7139
>
>
Wasn't one of the guys in Finland looking for a 394 too.  He may be a good
bet if you don't sell it in Dallas.  As I remember he can get a
trans-shipment thru Philadelphia.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:31:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

At 10:22 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-02-25 09:07:26 EST, you write:
>
><< Yup,  Saw it on the counter at Super Shops once.  I remember asking if
>they >>
>
>My thanks to others of the greater Chicago area for their input. I've never
>seen a "Super Shops", my favorites being Giant Auto, and when they
>dissapeared from my area, the Pep Boys. I shall have to visit the Super Shop
>(singular?) on Irving Park Rd. Incidentally, what in the nether reaches of
>perdition is Kodak "Photo Flo"?
>
>As always, Oldsgurus provide enlightenment...
>
>
>Thanks again
>
>Karl Aune
>Chicago,IL
>1965 Dynamic 88
>
>Duct tape; it sticks to children almost as well as napalm.
>
>(Oh all right! I apologize to those squeamish few who don't appreciate the
>dark humor. I am sorry. (Fortunately for me looks aren't everything!))
>
>
>
Photo Flo is a wetting agent used in the photographic industry.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:41:57 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM stress

At 11:31 PM 2/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-02-25 10:46:25 EST, you write:
>
><< If an engine fails at high rpms, I would think it's a combination of the
> cylinder compression and the reciprocating mass, as well as the high
> temperatures.  That's assuming no material flaws, and good machining and
> tolerances.  The stress on not only the crankshaft, but also the rods,
> pins, bolts, etc. increases exponentially as the engine speed increases.
> It's been a few years since I've studied this sort of thing but I'll pull
> out the ol' textbook and verify this info.  This is an interesting subject
> and I'd also like to hear what everyone else thinks. >>
>
>Engine failure at high RPM would also be determined by the oil and oil
>pressure.  If the oil viscosity is not sufficient or the oil pressure is not
>high enough, the fluid film that separates the bearing from the journal could
>be pushed out causing metal to metal contact.
>
>Paul Pate
>70 Cutlass S
>
>

I like this avenue of thought on this subject.  Can you elaborate on how the
viscosity or oil pressure can contibute to engine failure at high RPM, and
not caused something detremental at idle.  If there is insufficent oil
pressure at high rpm, it must have been in negative numbers at idle.

I guess I am not familiar enough with this aspect of gasoline engine
operation!  But would like to.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:54:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

>Topic suggestions:
>
>Water wetter from the fifties.
>Is that pronounced Super Eight Eight or is it Super Eighty-Eight?
>Conversion of Hydra-Matics to Dynaflows.
>Will the head on a flat head 8 fit on the ohv 8?
>
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>

Bill,

I like your topics for discussion.  I just have acouple of questions about
them.

1. Was water really wetter in the '50s

2. Did you notice the coinicedence of Oldsmobile models, and those of
McDonell-Douglas (although it may have been sans Douglas at the time).  The
F85, The Goblin),  was not much of a success, as Mac-Air only built two or
three; also the F88, known as the VooDoo, was also only built in the
handsful, neither never went into series production. And I'd opt of
eighty-eight.

3. Do you mean trying to get Dynaflo innards to fit in the TH case, or do
you mean conversion of an automobile from the TH to the DF.  If you mean the
latter, Oldsmobile already tried it in 1953.

4. Of course that conversion can be made, but it may not run so well.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: Howard H <howardh@sundial.sundial.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:57:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: repaired antenna

On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 Ossipee104@aol.com wrote:

> Fellas, along with being a olds cutlass owner, I am also a master installer
> in the car audio bus. The problem youare refering to is rather easy to fix.
> It is a little time cosuming though. You don't have to take the front end
> apart however, you do loosen the bolt on the side of the fender  between the
> door and the fender itself. Then proceed to loosen the wheel well fender.
> Afte you do that you hve a access point to the power antena. It is a little
> cramped , but it is the best way to do it. Do not be scared to pull GENTLY
on > the fender to give you some room. The antena loosens from the top of the
mast > at the base by turning the cap. The rest of the antena is supported by
a > bracket at the base. As far as the wiring, the system is a positive
actuation > system and requires a few wire connections to make it work. On
your > replacement antena, you have a ground, power and trigger. The factory
trigger > is or should be pink. That is what tells the antenna the radio is
on. I > recommend you replace the unit rather than trying to repair it, trust
me it > is not worth your time. Harada makes direct replacement antennas and
they are > better units. You could even get them in the black mast style if
you wish. If > you have any problems, feel free to contact me. This is one
area I am a pro > at. Car alarms, radios even high end installs. I wouldn't
mind helping fellow > olds owners. If you would like to know the model
antenna, just write back and > I'll get it to you. I don't have my manuals in
front of me, but I will get > you the info. ASAP.
 Ossippee,
Thanks for the info, but I would not want to put a non-original item like
Harada or other substitute on my Hurst. The wiring you mention is not
consistent with the original equipment on my car. The harness connector on my
car consists of 3 wires. A white wire which supplies power to retract the
mast, a green wire to extend the mast and a center grey wire for ground. And
maybe you'll understand when I say there is no such thing as "not worth my
time" when it comes to repairing anything to keep everything original (as
everything currently is) on my Hurst. Perhaps you can answer the following
question. I've found, coming out of the car side of the harness I always have
power  to the white (retract) wire, but get no power to the green (extend)
wire when I turn the radio on. Stuck relay?? What do you think? And if so,
where is this relay? Thanks again.

      ___   ___ ___
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /
   /  HURST //  /
  /  /  /  //  /_______
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \
         /  //  /OLDS/  /
        /  / \  \___/  /
       /__/   \_______/

  Howard Hosenbold
  howardh@sundial.net
  1984 Hurst Olds
  Production # 2748
  OCA # 024551
  HOCA # 1259
  OCF # 24551
      ___   ___ ___
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /
   /  HURST //  /
  /  /  /  //  /_______
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \
         /  //  /OLDS/  /
        /  / \  \___/  /
       /__/   \_______/

  Howard Hosenbold
  howardh@sundial.net
  1984 Hurst Olds
  Production # 2748
  OCA # 024551
  HOCA # 1259
  OCF # 24551



------------------------------

From: pteubel@safety1st.com (Peter Teubel)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:39:10 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

     I'm selling my 1951 Olds Rocket 303 V8, if anyone is interested.  It
     got (supposedly) 48K miles on it.  Ran perfect when I removed it.  I
     regasketed the entire engine.  *VERY* clean inside.

     My '51 98 is going to have a 350 or 455 (budget dictates, you know) so
     the OEM motor is of no use to me.  Its complete from air filter to oil
     pan.  Anyone want it?  I'll cut anyone on this list a really good deal
     <g>.  What the hell, I'll throw in the engine stand too....<wow>.

     pteubel@safety1st.com
     '51 98
     '82 98
     '86 Ciera (Wife's Car)


------------------------------

From: pteubel@safety1st.com (Peter Teubel)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:30:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Truck wanted for project.....

     Cool!!!  Keep us (or at least me) posted on this project.  I have a
     1984 Ch*vy C10 with a bad motor (270K+ miles) and a spare 403 that I'm
     rebuilding.  I would LOVE to install it in Charlie (my truck....long
     story).  Plenty of power and halfway decent gas mileage (I'm getting
     16 with my '82 98 w/403 transplant)

     pteubel@safety1st.com
     '51 98
     '82 98
     '86 Ciera (Wife's Car)


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Truck wanted for project.....
Author:  Tom Millard <OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net> at imail Date:    2/25/97
11:57 PM


Bear with me guys, this is entirely OLDS related.  I am looking for an 81-86
Chevy
pickup, 4WD, either 6' or 8' box, 1/2 or 3/4 ton, rust free.  The ideal truck
would be a
Southern (N. or S. Carolina, Virginia, etc...) truck with a bad motor (even a
diesel
would be fine...)

Here's my idea... I want to sell my one 79 Cutlass I use for winter
transportation.  To
replace this, I want to buy a full size Chevy truck and replace the engine
with a 403 Olds I am getting soon. I plan on using an adapter plate to mate
the Olds bell patern the the Chevy trans.  I know some of the earlier trucks
had 5.7 diesels in them (OLDS DIESELS) so I plan on finding a donor truck in
the bone yard for the correct motor mounts.  The rest of the accessories
will be from a pass. car.

I also plan on using 78-88 Cutlass factory gauges to replace the original
dummy lights or guages.  I plan on filling the two 5" holes with the speedo
and tach and the 4 smaller holes will be filled with the water temp, oil
pressure, voltmeter, and gas gauges.

So I would have the best of both worlds... a full size OLDS POWERED pickup
that I can use in the winter and tow my red 79 Cutlass to the race track in
the summer....

Any thoughts or know of any trucks for sale???
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net (FORMERLY OLDSPWR@aol.com)
79 Cutlass - Street/Strip/Show
86 442 - Summer Driver
79 Cutlass - Winter Bomb
"Faithful to the Rocket Division"




------------------------------

From: olivier thibault <olivier@9bit.qc.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:54:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

Daniel A. Gulino wrote:
>
> At 11:49 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Do u have any idea what worth an Olds delta 88 1973 2 doors ?
> >In a very good condition ?
>
> I don't have my price guide in front of me, but I would expect the value
> would be a bit higher than for your '76.  It probably won't be a whole lot
> different, though.  They share a basic body style and are of similar
> vintage.  If the '73 is a convertible, that will bump up the price by
> several thousand dollars.  The '76 Delta 88 was not available as a
> convertible.
>
> **************************************
> Daniel A. Gulino
> gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
> http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
> 1975 Delta 88 Convertible
> **************************************


Thanks Daniel! :)

Olivier
Delta 88 Royale 1976
And in some weeks:Delta 88 1973

------------------------------

From: olivier thibault <olivier@9bit.qc.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:01:25 -0400
Subject: Re: light covers

John Schumacher wrote:
>
> Junior627@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 97-02-24 17:20:28 EST, you write:
> >
> > << What exactly are "light covers"?  >>
> > they are the silver plastic things that go around your ligths and give
your > > blinkers anr brake lights color.... > > Let me ask another way...
Is a "light cover" the same as a lense? > > John Schumacher > NTOC#254 >
OCA#021151 > 64 D88 > 69 442 > 74 Supreme


Sorry Alls!
Ill do a mistake!
By light cover i talk about lense!

Sorry but im not speaking english usually!

Olivier
Delta 88 Royale 1976

------------------------------

From: Chris & Robin Miller <cya442@INETWORLD.NET>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:52:16 -0400
Subject: Q-Jet Carbs

Has anyone heard of  anything good or bad about Kenyon Carburetors
located in Phoenix, Arizona?  It is ran by a Gregg Kenyon.  I am in the
market for a rebuilt Q-jet 69-70 and he seems pretty reasonable and the
quality of his work looked pretty good!  As always - any tips are
greatly appreciated!!

CYA:)
Chris Miller
'68 442
cya442@inetworld.net

------------------------------

From: sguiller@stumail.engr.udayton.edu
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:02:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

> > I'll join a 50's list as my 61 STARFIRE is getting lonely also


> Everett,
>
> Seeing as how I love those '61 Starfires & this group needs to be
> represented, why don't you tell us something about these cars?  I have a
> '62 Jetfire which is a poor relative of the above.  I have also spent
> part of the day scoping out a '62 Starfire for the 394 engine that Esko
> may want.  Those are nice, nice cars.
>

>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama


Well, in that case, my '65 Starfire must be pretty lonely, too.  I've
seen a lot more '61's and '62's than '65's (I must admit, those early
convertibles are pretty neat, though)
Following this growing trend, I should join a '65 Starfire discussion
group myself,  However, I'm afraid I'd be the only one there!

"Carpe momentum"
Shaun R. Guillermin

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:23:37 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

>Charley, stop it... that made me laugh so hard my knee operation started
>hurting again... :)
>

Uh, oh...   Sorry, Greg!


>I like your idea about testing the  "compression/no-compression" theory.
>I would love to try it out!
>However, I believe the compression would be an important factor in the
>bearing stress.  If you have compressed gas (air, or fuel and air) in
>the cylinder, then the pressure it's exerting(sp?) on the piston would
>have the effect of making the reciprocating assembly weigh more, wouldn't
>it?  "Weight", after all, is not the measure of the assembly's mass, but
>the force of gravity acting on that mass. If the motor has no compression
>and is not running then all you would have acting on the bearings would be
>the weight of the assembly itself.  However, if you add the force from the
>compressed gas (let alone from a fuel-air combustion) then you increase
>the force applied to the piston, and thereby to the assembly; you have
>effectively made that assembly weigh more.  At least as far as the
>bearings and the oil are concerned.

The concept I've been led to understand is that the failure points are the
rod cap seperation and rod stretch.  (generally speaking)  On the power and
intake (down) strokes, the momentum of the upper components is contained by
the crankshaft, but the rod cap is only bolted on, with nothing solid
supporting its lower half.  On the compression and exhaust strokes (remember
the four strokes: Suck, Squeeze, Bang, and Blow... They teached us goodly in
colledge!) the upward strokes, all of the inertia is pushing up, but when
the crank says it's time to turn, and the piston wants to take it's time
doing so, the rod has a tendancy to stretch out.  I can't see compression
affecting these two failures at all.  I'm sure it plays a major role in
other catastrophic failures, but for these failures, I'm guessing the only
role higher compression plays is speed related.  By giving it that extra
weight and thereby increasing the inertia factor, it's also increasing RPM
(or for each stroke, linear velocity)  On power stroke, it will be
increasing the velocity, and on the compression stroke, it will be
decreasing velocity. both are determinants of RPM, so on the one hand, the
compression makes the critical RPM easier to attain, but on the other hand,
that RPM is still the same, high or low compression.  I can't say for sure,
but that's the light I'm viewing it in...


>I know this isn't really an Olds discussion.  Hope y'all don't mind a
>little "tech talk"!

Well, remember, it ~is~ an Olds pulling the f*rd. (Hang on Greg, this'll be
short!)  We'd still have to get ~really~ out of hand to top the 442
pronounciations...

          -------------------

more...

>Engine failure at high RPM would also be determined by the oil and oil
>pressure.  If the oil viscosity is not sufficient or the oil pressure is not
>high enough, the fluid film that separates the bearing from the journal could
>be pushed out causing metal to metal contact.
>
...causing the famous spun bearings we all love so much...  (I ~had~ a
fooour-fiiffttyy-fiiiiiiivvve Rocket...  till I spun a rod...)  The
experiences I'm questioning involve more catastrophic problems (like the
Space Shuttle Challenger... Ya know, when things really go bad fast.)  The
ones that allow you to visualize the problems ~without~ having to take the
oil pan off...

          ------------------
and more...

>
>With great political correctness, I believe that you have become part of the
>Ms-Mr-Miss-Mrs-informed about 'critical RPM' which has nothing what-so-ever
>to do with anything you were referencing in your post.
>
>I doubt that any hydrocarbon fueled reciprocating engine manufacturer in the
>world market an engine that is fueled by one of these products, namely,
>gasoline that has a 'critical speed.'  He could not afford the warranty
costs. > >The Wiz

The "critical speed" to which I'm referring is not published by any
manufacturer.  It's a hypothetical speed at which bad things begin happening
quickly.  Every engine has one -- I doubt there are ~any~ exceptions.  The
only differences is their location on the tach.  For stock Olds Big Block,
I'd guess this to be around 7000RPM, depending on mechanical condition.
(purely a guess...) The "Critical Speed/RPM" is a nickname I just came up
with because it seems to have almost everything to do with the post and its
referenced points (did I refer to anything else?  I don't know...)  The fact
is that after a certain RPM, ~anything~ will throw parts, and to me, that's
a fairly critical moment.  Hence the terminology...  Actually, most
manufacturers ~did~ come up with a similar concept, although they called it
a redline, and labelled it at a significantly lower location on the tach:)

          -------------------

Still more...

>
>I like this avenue of thought on this subject.  Can you elaborate on how the
>viscosity or oil pressure can contibute to engine failure at high RPM, and
>not caused something detremental at idle.  If there is insufficent oil
>pressure at high rpm, it must have been in negative numbers at idle.
>
>I guess I am not familiar enough with this aspect of gasoline engine
>operation!  But would like to.

Heat and oil starvation are the big culprits here.  The excess heat of high
rpm use can break down the oil, and the high rpm ranges are more susceptible
to damages here.  Worst case scenario would be zero oil pressure...  Similar
to sideswiping another car, perhaps...  At idle, it would be a slow metal to
metal process, and the damage would take longer to complete.  At high
speeds, it's nothing but a flash of sparks and a thundering noise, with a
pile of parts leftover.  A loose analagy, anyway...  The other aspect is oil
starvation.  If the oil level is low, for some reason, and the engine is at
high speeds, the pump may start sucking air because there isn't sufficient
oil drainback to the pan.  Or at least the drainback isn't fast enough.
Soooo, for a brief moment, the engine is running with no oil at high speeds.
Ouch.  Often it may be quick enough for the oil guage to not even register a
dip, but it's still just as painful to the bearings.

          -----------------

Looks like that's all the posts on the thread so far...  how's that knee
doing, Greg?


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:23:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Need Positraction

>When I come off the line my right rear tire just spins. Even when I hit 2nd
>I still see smoke coming from the right tire. I need Posi. Does anyone know
>where I could get the gears? (I have no idea how to spell Positraction)
>
Spelling looks right to me, if all else fails, "posi" works well too.  If
you're ~really~ at a loss, just say "  |  |  As opposed to  |
                                |  |                 |       "

Sorry, long night!  If you have trouble getting gears, a cheap but ~really~
affective trick is the suspension air bags in Summit.  Mine are the AirLift
brand, but I think there are others as well.  I have an open diff 3.42, and
I spin posi's constantly now.  They're really impressive.  If you'd like
more info on 'em, just let me know.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:34:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Truck wanted for project.....

>     Cool!!!  Keep us (or at least me) posted on this project.  I have a
>     1984 Ch*vy C10 with a bad motor (270K+ miles) and a spare 403 that I'm
>     rebuilding.  I would LOVE to install it in Charlie (my truck....long
>     story).  Plenty of power and halfway decent gas mileage (I'm getting
>     16 with my '82 98 w/403 transplant)

Uhh, wait a minute.  If you're naming the truck after ~me~ how 'bout a
BigBlock stuffed in there, instead!   :)

I like the idea completely.  I've seen many people put 455's in their
pickups, and are quite happy with 'em.  I like the idea of getting the Olds
interior into the dash, too.  I've always wanted to find an S15 (no bowties,
remember...) and swap in a 455 (or should I say ~squeeze~ in...) and then
strip off the front end and half of the interior, and a few other select
body trim pieces.  ~Then~ go to the GM parts counter with parts list in hand
(or get lucky enough to find one in a junk yard) and buy the front end, dash
trim, and emblems for the Olds Bravada.  Presto!  An Olds Pickup.  As far as
I could tell, all this stuff would bolt together.  Piece of cake (except
maybe the big block...)  I think the S series trucks used the same axles as
us, too.  (for the 2WD folks who want a race truck...)

On the lines of the ch*vy diesels...  Were they ~all~ Olds diesel engines in
there?  I'd heard this was true, but never verified.  The reason for asking,
is that some of the newer diesels that were plugged onto the 4L80 and 4L80E
trannys may offer us some ~really~ cool alternatives.  We'd beaten the idea
to death before, that BOP never made a RWD using the 4L80 series tranny (the
4L80 is basically a TH400 with O/drive)  But we never considerred the diesel
ch*vy's.  If these have the BOP bolt pattern we'd really have a good thing
going on...  There's always adapter plates, but I'd rather see something
stock looking.

On the lines of pickups...  I've always swore to only own a GMC, and no
ch*vys.  For two reasons.  One, 'cuz they're ch*vys! :)  And the second,
because GMC trucks seem to be built alot more solid.  I'd heard it rumored a
few years back that GMC and ch*vy trucks do go down the exact same assembly
line, but that the GMC trucks spend an extra eight to twelve hours there
getting extra trim, insulation, and other goodies like that.  I've never
been able to verify that, but every GMC I've been in has given me the
impression that it could well be true.  Steve, any insights here?  I've
heard of dealers getting trucks of the carrier with Scotsdale on one fender
and Sierra on the other, though, so that supports the theory of them running
down the same line...  :)  Enough Non-Olds from me now...



>
>Bear with me guys, this is entirely OLDS related.  I am looking for an 81-86
>Chevy
>pickup, 4WD, either 6' or 8' box, 1/2 or 3/4 ton, rust free.  The ideal truck
 >would be a >Southern (N. or S. Carolina, Virginia, etc...) truck with a
bad motor (even a >diesel

Yup, they say they don't get much worse than that!  :)

  ---Can't believe he's thinking of selling off the Olds...  :(


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:31:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Truck wanted for project.....

Snips & more snips>

>On the lines of pickups...  I've always swore to only own a GMC, and no
>ch*vys.  For two reasons.  One, 'cuz they're ch*vys! :)  And the second,
>because GMC trucks seem to be built alot more solid.  I'd heard it rumored a
>few years back that GMC and ch*vy trucks do go down the exact same assembly
>line, but that the GMC trucks spend an extra eight to twelve hours there
>getting extra trim, insulation, and other goodies like that.  I've never
>been able to verify that, but every GMC I've been in has given me the
>impression that it could well be true.  Steve, any insights here?  I've
>heard of dealers getting trucks of the carrier with Scotsdale on one fender
>and Sierra on the other, though, so that supports the theory of them running
>down the same line...  :)  Enough Non-Olds from me now.
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)
>
>
>
Charley,

I love you tonight.  You're more fun than the Pidgeon sisters, and until now
I thought they were unbeatable.

And, I get to speak again, for my two years at Saint Louis Chevrolet
Assembly Division, truck department.

1. Unfortunately, there should be a F*rd or R*m pickup in your schedule, but
each and every GMC pickup on the street today was run on the same assembly
lines as its Chevrolet brethern.  Yes, there are trim differences, and
possible some items may be standard on one, and optional on the other, but
that's where it ends.

2. GMC and Chevrolet pickups are made out of exactly the same parts, by
exactly the same people as Chevrolets.  And again, save for trim and option
differences, the only thing you could get on a GMC that you couldn't get on
a Chevrolet was the GMC V6 engine, and I guess that that is actually on
option.  Of course this was between, March 22, 1968 and March 21, 1970, ie
my two years at Chevrolet.

3. Kid youself all you want, but next time buy a F*rd or R*m and leave the
people at Chevrolet alone.  Or better yeat, have you seen that almost full
sized Toyota?  Drop your hot 455 in one of those, and it should run in the
high sixes.

The Wix Waxes

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:31:08 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

Snips

>>
>>With great political correctness, I believe that you have become part of the
>>Ms-Mr-Miss-Mrs-informed about 'critical RPM' which has nothing what-so-ever
>>to do with anything you were referencing in your post.
>>
>>I doubt that any hydrocarbon fueled reciprocating engine manufacturer in the
>>world would market an engine that is fueled by one of these products,
namely, >>gasoline, that has a 'critical speed.'  He could not afford the
warranty costs. >> >>The Wiz >

Snips

>The "critical speed" to which I'm referring is not published by any
>manufacturer.  It's a hypothetical...

Unfortunately "critical speed" is not hypothetical, and can be calculated
mathematically.  It is an exact science, and concerns itself with the moving
mass of the engine and the speed at which it is operating.

read on

>Every engine has one -- I doubt there are ~any~ exceptions.  The
>only differences is their location on the tach.  For stock Olds Big Block,
>I'd guess this to be around 7000RPM, depending on mechanical condition.
>(purely a guess...) The "Critical Speed/RPM" is a nickname I just came up
with

lots of snips>

Charley,

When you 'invent' a new bit of 'jargon' it is usually BEST to use a term
that is NOT already in EVERDAY usage, like 'critical speed.'  Critical speed
has been with us, probably just a few days short of Dr. Otto's invention.  I
suppose I was a little abrupt in saying that some engines do not indeed have
a critical speed, it is just that no one markets a gasoline engine for
automotive use that has its' critical speed anywhere close to it useful
operating speeds.

Critical speed is the RPM where an engine goes into instability.  In a
simplified statement, one end of the engine is running against the other,
end of the engine, and they are fighting with one another instead of doing
useful service.  And catastrophic engine failure is eminent.  Large diesel
engines often have a critical speed down in the operating range.  However,
large diesel engines are usually run at or near the yellow line, on a
continuous duty type of operation.  I know the story of a small town out
your way that bought a pair of large diesel engines to generate the city's
electric power.  They had great problems with the engines.  The manufacturer
sent a field engineer to study the problem.  In order to make 60 cycle
(sorry Mr. Hertz) but this story took place many years ago, they ran the
engines at something like 360 RPM instead of the usual 420 RPM.  And as it
worked out, 360 RPM was the engines critical speed.

In practical use, if they would have accelerated right past the 360 RPM
level, they would not have experienced any trouble, but the engine could not
be run at 360 continuous, because of the fore mentioned problem.

>Still more...
>
>>
>>I like this avenue of thought on this subject.  Can you elaborate on how the
>>viscosity or oil pressure can contibute to engine failure at high RPM, and
>>not caused something detremental at idle.  If there is insufficent oil
>>pressure at high rpm, it must have been in negative numbers at idle.
>>
>>I guess I am not familiar enough with this aspect of gasoline engine
>>operation!  But would like to.
>
>Heat and oil starvation are the big culprits here.  The excess heat of high
>rpm use can break down the oil, and the high rpm ranges are more susceptible
>to damages here.  Worst case scenario would be zero oil pressure...  Similar
>to sideswiping another car, perhaps...  At idle, it would be a slow metal to
>metal process, and the damage would take longer to complete.  At high
>speeds, it's nothing but a flash of sparks and a thundering noise, with a
>pile of parts leftover.  A loose analagy, anyway...  The other aspect is oil
>starvation.  If the oil level is low, for some reason, and the engine is at
>high speeds, the pump may start sucking air because there isn't sufficient
>oil drainback to the pan.  Or at least the drainback isn't fast enough.
>Soooo, for a brief moment, the engine is running with no oil at high speeds.
>Ouch.  Often it may be quick enough for the oil guage to not even register a
>dip, but it's still just as painful to the bearings.

Heat and oil starvation are not allowed on this thread.  The original thread
to which you make reference said, engine failure can occur because of
problems with viscosity and oil pressure at high speeds.  If all the oil
goes into the rocker valley, and fails to return to the oil pan, the failure
was caused by a combination of some of the following: poor design, poorly
executed oil return passsages at manufacture, sludge in the engine, and
probably others--not problems with low oil pressure or viscosity.

If an engine fails at high RPM because all the oil has been retained in the
cylinder heads, the problem in NOT LOW OIL PRESSURE!  But rather the problem
is oil retention in the cylinder heads.

>          -----------------
>
>Looks like that's all the posts on the thread so far...  how's that knee
>doing, Greg?
>
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)
>
>
>
The Wiz Suggests

P.S. And I am curious about oil pressure and viscosity problems that might
cause an engine to fail at high RPM, but I am not interested if that was
supposed to imply that all the oil can be pumped out of the oil pan at high
RPM, that can cause engine failure.  I know that can cause engine failure.
I'm much more interested in discovery of new areas of interested, not
rehashing the simply obvious.

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:20:51 -0400
Subject: Non-OLDS (Re: High RPM Stress con'd)

The Wiz sez anecdotally:

>  I know the story of a small town out
> your way that bought a pair of large diesel engines to generate the city's
> electric power.  They had great problems with the engines.  The manufacturer
> sent a field engineer to study the problem.  In order to make 60 cycle
> (sorry Mr. Hertz) but this story took place many years ago, they ran the
> engines at something like 360 RPM instead of the usual 420 RPM.  And as it
> worked out, 360 RPM was the engines critical speed.
>
> In practical use, if they would have accelerated right past the 360 RPM
> level, they would not have experienced any trouble, but the engine could not
> be run at 360 continuous, because of the fore mentioned problem.

Hmmm, this sounds more like catastrophic failure due to resonant frequencies
of the moving parts within the engines -- or perhaps their drivetrains to
the generators? -- rather than the oil starvation or viscosity breakdown
conditions Charley's talking about.  I'm no mechanical engineer, but it
seems that it's not a good engineering practice to develop an engine that has
a 'critical' speed located *below* its redline, especially one that seems
rather near what appears to be its designed operating speed (360 .vs. 420).

Unless the implication here is that oil pressure was insufficient at 360 rpm,
but *was* at 420; which methinks would also be a result of poor design as well
as possibly the other reasons Wiz lists in the below paragraph:

> Heat and oil starvation are not allowed on this thread.  The original thread
> to which you make reference said, engine failure can occur because of
> problems with viscosity and oil pressure at high speeds.  If all the oil
> goes into the rocker valley, and fails to return to the oil pan, the failure
> was caused by a combination of some of the following: poor design, poorly
> executed oil return passsages at manufacture, sludge in the engine, and
> probably others--not problems with low oil pressure or viscosity.
>
> If an engine fails at high RPM because all the oil has been retained in the
> cylinder heads, the problem in NOT LOW OIL PRESSURE!  But rather the problem
> is oil retention in the cylinder heads.

I guess this is splitting hairs, but the oil retention in the heads is *not*
what causes the failure in this case; rather, it's the low oil pressure
resulting from oil starvation that causes the parts to lose their lubrication
and fail.  The ultimate reason(s) are varied, and the Wiz lists some of them;
but heat and starvation *are* germaine to this thread...

An analogy here might be that it's not the AIDS virus itself that kills a
person; rather, it's the dieases that are allowed to ravage their body when
their immune system is turned off by the virus.

(Analogies like this pop in yer head when you're married to a bio-chemist :) )

> The Wiz Suggests

> P.S. And I am curious about oil pressure and viscosity problems that might
> cause an engine to fail at high RPM, but I am not interested if that was
> supposed to imply that all the oil can be pumped out of the oil pan at high
> RPM, that can cause engine failure.  I know that can cause engine failure.
> I'm much more interested in discovery of new areas of interested, not
> rehashing the simply obvious.

Well, given the discussion above, I guess concluding that highly viscous oil
might cause oil retention in the heads and oil starvation at high RPMs is
simply obvious, as are the cases the Wiz lists above; so we should just drop
the subject and never ever ever discuss it again, hmm?

Sometimes rehashing the 'simply obvious' is a good thing; like history, if
obvious facts aren't re-visited, they are doomed to be repeated...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:56:35 -0400
Subject: 79 Cutlass Ralleye Pack

Does anyone know the market value for a new 79 Cutlass Ralleye Guage
Cluster Pack?  A guesstimate would be appreciated as well if you are not
sure.

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:59:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

Joe,
	It used to be in a 79 Olds Cutlass.  But that is not the original car.
So what ever 403 motor is compatible with a 79 Olds Cutlass components,
this would be the one.  Are you interested in buying it?

						Gerald Hughes



JOSEPH_W. BARKER wrote:
>
> What year is your 403?  And what did it originally come out of?
>
> > I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
> > intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
> > rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!
> > How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
> > would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.
> >
> > Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
> > other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
> > bolt up to it?
> >
> > Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?
> >
> >                         Gerald Hughes
> >                         79 Hurst/Olds
> >
> >

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:09:17 -0400
Subject: Adjustable Valves

On a 1979 350 4bbl VIN Engine Code R...Do the heads have adjustable
valves?

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:19:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

<soap-box mode>
As to their not being enough talk about 50's Olds' on the list, I'd like
to give a few reasons, at least, IMHO.  First off, I'm 20, and I've
always loved the 50's and 40's cars, Olds' and others' as well.  The two
cars that I would like to own more than anything else, are a 1949 Olds 98,
and a 1956 Olds Super 88.  Back to the reasons for the lack of 50's info
though.  50's cars, contrary to what it may seem like, have enjoyed quite
a popularity in recent years; most notibly Chevy's and Pontiacs.  You
can't buy a '57 Chevy, or '55-'57 Nomad wagon anymore in restoreable
condition for anywhere near what most people can afford to spend on a
collectors car.  The same has been happening, but to a lesser extent, with
our beloved Oldsmobiles.  I looked at a '59 88 over the weekend, but
givent that the man was wanting $500 for the car, and the only real thing
it had going for it was a 2bbl. 371, I easily passed that'n up.  Probably
the best deal currently on 50's cars, are the old Dodges, DeSoto's etc,
but I'd still rather have an Oldsmobile :-)  Also, along with the rising
prices for good project cars, our parts cars have dissappeared!  You've
got to remember that these cars are now 40 years old.  Junkyard parts
cars, in some cases, have been rusting in the 'yards for 20 years!!!
Parts are now expensive, and hard to find!  It seems to me, that the
current excitement for 60's cars, echos the feeling in the country 20
years ago for 50's cars.  People restore what they can afford to restore.
I don't think that most of us have an unlimited money supply, and
therefore, 50's cars are quickly becoming "out of reach" for some of us.
I don't think that anybody is trying to argue that the 50's cars aren't
some of the more elegant cars Olds ever made (1958 not included ;-) but
rather, there is a lack of interest simply because the general car
restoring world has moved towards newer cars as their supplies have begun
to run low.  I hope that I haven't offended anybody.  I'd like to close
this by saying that if a separate 50's list was formed, I'd certainly
join, but it might be "better" if not more enjoyable to keep the 50's
folks on the Olds list.   </soap-box mode>

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:23:00 -0400
Subject: 324 engine/transmission compatability

I've got sort of an odd-ball question that I'm asking here for a friend.
This person has got a lot of money in his TH350 tranny, but would like to
put an old Rocket 324 in his car.  While I'm sure that the newer TH350's
aren't a direct replacement for the old 324's tranny, is there an adaptor
plate that is made for this purpose?  Is there anything my friend can do
to keep the TH350 with the new (old) motor?

Thanks,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #537
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