To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #575


oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 24 March 1997       Volume 01 : Number 575

Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
1954 Oldsmobile
"The Cars of Oldsmobile"
Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Date:Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:12:01 -0400
Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: A-frame question
RE: 87 Oldsmobile GT
Re: disappointing performance
Disappointing Olds Shopping
Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: Judging Rules
Re: found 76 442
RE: Simple '84 H/O question
Re: 16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?
New Toranodo's, and a couple of thoughts
wheels for Calais
paint clear coat problems - 86 "98"
Re: found 76 442
Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: 4-sale 65 442 conv.
Rear end rebuild kits
Judging
Re: 1954 Oldsmobile
Re: Judging Rules
Re: 1954 Oldsmobile
Re: Dual exhaust
Re: 1987 Salon 442 Different
Re: wheels for Calais
Re: wheels for Calais
Re: Judging Rules
Re: Judging Rules
1986 toronado parts
Re: Judging Rules
Re: Judging
Re: 1954 Oldsmobile
Re: Judging Rules
Re: Judging Rules
help!
'53 Olds Rear Window
Setting the pace
3.3 vs.3.8 v-6's
Re: 87 Olds GT
RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
1949 Salesman's Book For Sale (3/24)
Apology for the Porsche Post
Parts
Re: 69 H/O Rear Code
442 Wheels
87 Salon 442 diff.
Answers to the Porsche Tranny Problem!!!
Re: Setting the pace
Re: 69 H/O Rear Code
Re: wheels for Calais
1970 olds value
Dynomax for Ciera
Re: paint clear coat problems - 86 "98"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Casey Nicholls" <casey@datacom.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:51:06 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Hello,

I didn't realize the problems that I'd be causing by participating in the
conference in this matter.  I missed the discussion about this in previous
messages.

Please remove me from the mail list, as I have asked 4 times now!  I
obviously don't want to be a part of receiving 150 message/day.  Maybe
you're the one breaking mail systems!  I've been trying to get off this
list for two weeks now!  My system administrator has sent numerous messages
about this and nothing has been done.

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST!!!!!


- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
> Date: Sunday, March 23, 1997 3:59 AM
>
> On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Jari Porhio wrote:
> >  STOP DOING THIS! Don't you people understand what problems you cause
> > by sending these binaries. I have to do 10 minutes of extra work every
> > time someone breaks my mail system, not to mention the extra time to
> > download this data over the phone line, if I don't notice the garbage
> > in time. This is not your company net, where everyone just plays
> > tennis with attached files.
>
> Jari, you're absolutely right to yell in this case. Especially since the
> same thing happened only a couple of days ago, and there was discussion
> of it here at the time.
>
> I'm torn as to what to do in these cases. I can understand how it can
> happen accidentally and I don't want to be too harsh if that's the case.
> But I'm inclined to immediately dismiss people that do this from the list

> in the future. Right now it counts as one of the 3 strikes people get
> before they are tossed.
>
> As administrator I'm beginning to lose patience with actions by members
> that are just plain careless.
>
> One final advisory: DO NOT SEND PICTURES TO THE OLDS LIST!!!!
>
> <sigh>
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada
>
>

------------------------------

From: Merlina Tate <merlinat@televar.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:12:49 -0400
Subject: 1954 Oldsmobile

We are restoring a 1954 Olds and are looking for a picture that shows
the two-tone paintjob.   Jim Tate

------------------------------

From: Merlina Tate <merlinat@televar.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:22:33 -0400
Subject: "The Cars of Oldsmobile"

I did not easily see in your info how to get the book "The Cars of
Oldsmobile".  Please let me know.   Jim Tate

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:52:15 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Casey Nicholls wrote:
> Please remove me from the mail list, as I have asked 4 times now!  I

Not me, you didn't. Nor the list, as I see those bounces too. I don't get
jollies from keeping people here against their will.

> obviously don't want to be a part of receiving 150 message/day.

Then maybe you shouldn't have signed up once you read the welcome
message. Or gone to digest mode. You *did* read the welcome message,
didn't you? The one that told you not to send binaries, and how to sign
up and unsubscribe? The one that was reposted here 2 days ago? And gets
posted about once a month?

> Maybe you're the one breaking mail systems!

Funny, I didn't see Jari doing anything that stupid. You, OTOH...

> I've been trying to get off this
> list for two weeks now!  My system administrator has sent numerous messages
> about this and nothing has been done.

Either you or your sysadmin are telling fibs. Not nice.

> PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST!!!!!

Don't worry, you won't have to ask me twice...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:56:49 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Casey Nicholls wrote:
>
> Please remove me from the mail list, as I have asked 4 times now!  I
> obviously don't want to be a part of receiving 150 message/day.  Maybe
> you're the one breaking mail systems!  I've been trying to get off this
> list for two weeks now!

Not very hard.  See below.

> My system administrator has sent numerous messages about this and
> nothing has been done.
>
> PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST!!!!!

If you send a message of "unsubscr*be oldsmobile" (add the "i" to the
word - I have to avoid using it so majordomo won't have a fit) and send
it to majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca *NOT* oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca, you'll be
unsubscr*bed.

Just like it was explained to you in the mail list greeting message
 - DUH!

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth Busby" <kennybee@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:12:01 -0400
Subject: Date:Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:12:01 -0400

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

I think this should count as another endorsement for propsition by the
Wiz.
Add new list members to the DIGEST only.
The welcome message can contain the procedure for changing over to
real-time.

Kurt
71 442

Casey Nicholls wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I didn't realize the problems that I'd be causing by participating in the
> conference in this matter.  I missed the discussion about this in previous
> messages.
>
> Please remove me from the mail list, as I have asked 4 times now!  I
> obviously don't want to be a part of receiving 150 message/day.  Maybe
> you're the one breaking mail systems!  I've been trying to get off this
> list for two weeks now!  My system administrator has sent numerous messages
> about this and nothing has been done.
>
> PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST!!!!!

------------------------------

From: HGLYLE@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:30:00 -0400
Subject: Re: A-frame question

we missed the question,

post it again

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:37:18 -0400
Subject: RE: 87 Oldsmobile GT

You wrote:
- ------
From: "Matt Herrick" <mherrick@tir.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:49:55 -0400
Subject: 1987 Oldsmobile GT
Hello,=09
I just wanted to drop a line to the group and ask if you've ever
heard of this car. It's an '87 Cutlass with a "GT" package.Supposedly
ª32 of 400 made.I've never heard of it.I know the =
Salon,Brougham,Classic,
and 442. But no GT.Is this a rare model?
- --------------
I have seen an 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass GT at a dealership around here =
called
"Southern Motors".  It's in Pontiac, MI just northwest a bit from me.
It looks like a crappy dealer add-on package.  It caught my eye right =
away,
BUT upon inspection it looked to be an 1987 Olds. Salon with rear wing,
cheesy 442-like striping (with ALL chrome pieces still intact).  The =
striping was red and (?) and looked like it was actually some cheap =
tape. =20
It may have had t-tops, but I don't recall.  Anyway, it didn't even look =
close to anything that would come off of the assembly line and I =
wouldn't buy it.
IMHO, if you're in the market, get yourself a nice Salon, H/O, or 442 -- =
you'll be glad you did.

Bruce D. Brumm
'86 Olds. Cutlass Salon 307-Y (Black, t-tops, rally-pak, bucket seats, =
console, etc...)
'84 Olds. Cutlass Supreme 307-Y (Blue, rusty, trusty, for sale).
'75 Olds. Cutlass Supreme 350-? (Gone, but never forgotten)

------------------------------

From: Cashmore <cashmore@imt.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:25:30 -0400
Subject: Re: disappointing performance

Mike Hall wrote:
>
> >Well guys I was humiliated pretty bad today.
>
> Travis,
>
> Just one thing I want to remind you of...
>
> How many years since that Eclipse had been crushed in the year 2029? (The
> same age as your '65)
>
> Will anybody remember what a Eclipse was?
>
> Will anybody care?
>
> I do know that I will still remember 1965 442's in the year 2029, and
> Lord willing, will have one of those bad boys in my garage!
>
> Final thought, Oldsmobiles are more than just going fast, they last and
> enjoy a undieing brand loyalty. Let's only hope that Oldsmobile gets a
> clue as to what will bring that excitement back to their newer cars.
> Maybe Olds need to think about removing itself from GM instead of GM
> rumouring of letting go of Oldsmobile?
>
> Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
> Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
> The Oldsmobile Stable:
>      1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...
>      1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
>      1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Thanks for the insight.  I always thought of my car as more than
something for getting from a to b in a timely manner.  I guess I just
forgot about the rest for awhile.  Not just anyone can say they love
everything about their car.

Travis Adams
65 442

------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:06:42 -0400
Subject: Disappointing Olds Shopping

Well, it was time this week to trade my everyday work ride ('91 Taurus SHO,
5speed) for something new.  As I need to drive my car in Michigan winters
and carry customers on a regular basis, I needed a FWD, four door sedan...I
refuse to settle for a mundane 4 banger, it has to have a little zing to it,
or I won't drive it.  So, off to the Olds dealer I go....to look at what?  A
six-cylinder (albeit optionally supercharged) LSS that IS my father's
Oldsmobile stickered at $31000+ or an Aurora that pushes $40000.  I don't
think so.  The Intrigues aren't even on the lot here yet, so I can't say
much about those, but I needed a car now and couldn't wait until May 1 when
the dealer says they'll have them.  All in all, a very disappointing trip.

Anybody noting a recurring theme here?

So, Olds had an anxious buyer looking to spend bucks on a new car and
couldn't deliver.....as much as everyone here is going to hate hearing this,
I ended up buying a new V8 SHO with every single option for less than
$25000.  For that much of a price difference, I'll get used to the styling.

On the weekends, I can still roll out the BB tripower Cutlass and say to
myself "This is what is was like when Olds used to make cars!"
Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:27:38 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Kurt Heinrich wrote:
>
> I think this should count as another endorsement for propsition by the
> Wiz.
> Add new list members to the DIGEST only.
> The welcome message can contain the procedure for changing over to
> real-time.

Since they don't read the welcome message anyway (as evidenced by the
fact they don't know how to unsubscr*be), we'll just get bombarded with
"how can I change to real-time".  Eh?

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:02:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Lloyd Culp wrote:

>
> The owner can later get a general reading of the point deductions on his
> car in writing, but he will never receive that actual judging sheet.
> The judge who reveals the details of the actual judging could be banned
> from judging forever.  Anyone who says that they know the details of the
> deductions on his car is only guessing.
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
>
Are you sure about this point?  I showed my Cutlass for the first
time this past summer at the OCA Nationals and I believe everyone was able
to get their judging sheet back if they handed in an envelope with their
address on it.  Is their a difference between the actual judging sheet and
the piece of paper I received.
This paper I have has some details about where I went wrong and
what needed to be improved with some deductions itemized also.  Could the
judges have been leinient(sp?) because I am a a young beginner in this
hobby and I did not have a copy of the actual rules to go by?

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:13:59 -0400
Subject: Re: found 76 442

One question?  Does the 442 follow the same grill and gage changes for
'76 (I've looked at some '76 Cutlasses for my collection, and the Grilles
with the 90 deg bend in them + the square headlights/gages just won't
allow me to buy such a piece of machinery.)  I know I am not the only one
who feels this, and that's gotta drop a bit of price.  Of course, I am
only me and do not represent any majority in car/music/technology
tastes.  ( I am currently boycotting micorsoft and dance music ).

Does anyone else share my opinion of those crazy '76 grilles (or the
great '77s with no 'curvy' doors) ?


EA~

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, jones wrote:

> I stumbled on to a 76 442 sittiing in a yard about 10 miles from here. The
> owners dad lives where the car is and he is suposed to call me tomorow with
> a price. The body is fairly straight with the usual K-mart rash and the
> original paint ( kind of a burnt orange with big white 442 letters) is
> faded from the Texas sun. One head was of the 350 was in the trunk the dad
> said it had a broke ring on that side but whatever was wrong it will now
> need a engine or at least boreing since the cylinders are rusted. The
> interior seemed to all be there but the Texas sun has taken its toll on it
> too.
> I will have a good 350 when I finish the 455 for our 66 and my wife does
> interior work so I could get it running fairly inexpensively. What would
> this car be worth running? It still wouldnt be a cream puff because I don't
> do paint and body work. I looked in the Olds adds and the regirstry and
> couldnt find any 76's. Is it brcause they didnt make a lot of them or
> because no one likes them? I am trying to decide if I want this one or if I
> should pass it up. What do Y'all think?
>
>

------------------------------

From: Thomas Waldron <tommyw1@ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:37:31 -0400
Subject: RE: Simple '84 H/O question

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC37A0.36A354A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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You're right, it is silver.Tom

- ----------
From: Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 2:06 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Simple '84 H/O question


     I have a simple question for any other '84 H/O owners out there.  On
     the front bumper, just above and below the red stripe decal there are
     rubber strips that run the length of the bumper, 1/4" or maybe just a
     bit wider.  What color are they?  How about the corresponding ones on
     the back bumper?

     The reason I'm asking is that I just got my car back from the dealer,
     fixing the front-end damage that happened in February.  They only have
     the top rubber strip on right now, and it's black.  I could have swore
     that they were silver, but the dealer showed me the manuals with the
     part number, and the part they got by that number is black.  The
     bottom one hasn't arrived yet, but should be here in a few days (along
     with the bumper guards).

     I still have a small piece of the bottom rubber strip that I pulled
     off after the accident (it was flappin' in the breeze) and it's
     definitely silver.  The back ones on my car almost seem white, but
     maybe the paint is just worn off.

     My baby is almost together again!  The airdam _was_ the last major
     piece that I needed (got a lead on one, just a matter of time now),
     but the dealer mangled my H/O hood plaque up pretty good so they're
     going to have to find me another one of those.   AAARRRRGHHHH!!!

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com




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------------------------------

From: Keith455@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:54:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?

My brother had a '71 Cutlass, and he put 16" Corvette rims on it.  All you
have to do is buy wheel spacers for them and they'll go right on.  I have a
pic of it somewhere. When I find it I will send you a copy or put it on my
web page.

Keith
http://www2.combase.com/~keith455

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:54:53 -0400
Subject: New Toranodo's, and a couple of thoughts

I was just thinking again into the future when the horrible day arrives
when I might actually need a newer, more than $500 car (I have only paid
more than $500 for one car, which one month later ended up upside down at
a local reserve along with many other local car's).  My theory is that if
I get a new car, I'm gonna make it worth my while, and that's why I'd
like to know about the new(er) Toranodo's.  Does anyone on this list
drive one, and what are they like for traction, interior, and 'newness.
(By newness, I mean all the little things, from light switches to power
seats to heater, and the annoying trend of car-makers to eliminate all
the driving experience from cars.)  It is hard to gather this information
from adds, etc..  I enjoy driving a car, where I turn the lights on/
adjust the heater/ use the brakes/ etc..  (I despise ABS/Airbags/Traction
Control etc)  How much of this stuff had made it to the new Toro's, and
are they still an awesome car to ride in (and not slow either).


Also, (sorry about length), my .02 on 'faking':

I do NOT like old cars for their rarity/etc..  I like old Oldsmobiles
because I like the cars.  If their was a company
which produced an old car from entirely new metal from another planet, I
would like/value/pay as much for it as any 'original'.  Of course, the
sport of collecting and restoring cars is somewhere where 'faking' could
be considered bad.

(With today's better designing techniques, I could only dream of what a
car the size of my '76 98 4dr would be like, perhaps as big as a small
house?)


EA~

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:58:16 -0400
Subject: wheels for Calais

Speaking of different-sized wheels, does anyone know if Olds produced any
15- or 16-inch diameter wheels for the Calais?  Mine has factory
14-inch wheels.  They are the alloy, five spoke design.
I would like to keep the same style as the ones I have, but have a little
bit larger diameter wheel to someday swap in some larger brakes.  I think
a slightly larger wheel would look a little nicer, too. The 14-inchers
look a little dinky. (Sorry, I DON'T mean to sound ungrateful!)
I've seen some nice aftermarket designs, but I'd prefer to stick
with a factory-made design that looks like the ones I already have.

Thanx for your input!

         Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: jkpkobin@discover-net.net (Jeff & Patti Kobinsky)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:01:27 -0400
Subject: paint clear coat problems - 86 "98"

I have a 86 olds "98" (white) that has the clear coat finish coming off in
sheets.

It is in different areas, no rust or dings involved.

My question - How do I repair this finish? - Do I need to refinish the
entire car?

The original paint is still on my 65 - F85 and looks better than the 86.

I hope to keep the car for at least another year before I sell it (and buy
another olds of course.)

Any info appreciated.

Jeff

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:12:04 -0400
Subject: Re: found 76 442

- ----------
> From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: found 76 442
> Date: Sunday, March 23, 1997 2:13 PM
>
> One question?  Does the 442 follow the same grill and gage changes for
> '76 (I've looked at some '76 Cutlasses for my collection, and the Grilles

> with the 90 deg bend in them + the square headlights/gages just won't
> allow me to buy such a piece of machinery.)

I think the 442 has the same grill as the Cutlass and like you I dont think
its the prettiest thing but my wife kinda likes it. I dont know about the
gagues I havent paid that much attenton to the mid 70's cars  She likes me
too so maybe she has strange tastes.
Walter


------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:36:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Matt Herrick wrote:
>
> Hello,
>         I just wanted to drop a line to the group and ask if you've ever
> heard of this car. It's an '87 Cutlass with a "GT" package.Supposedly
> ª32 of 400 made.I've never heard of it.I know the Salon,Brougham,Classic,
> and 442. But no GT.Is this a rare model?
>
> Thanks,
>         Matt

Are you sure this isn't the FWD Cutlass Ciera GT?

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:39:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-sale 65 442 conv.

jay,
what transmission? how many miles? interested in any trades? my wife
will kill me if i buy another one before i've finished my current
project but i'm a 4-4-2 nut. i tryed to e-mail you, couldn't find.
respond and we'll talk. thanks , doug

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:50:32 -0400
Subject: Rear end rebuild kits

Dave Wrote:

<<Does anybody know what the new rebuild kits from Supercars Unlimited for
O-type axles costs?


Dave Paulison >>

Not exactly Dave but I would suggest shopping the other rear gear stuff
suppliers such as Drive Train Specialities as well.  Supercars Unlimited is
usually pretty proud of their stuff.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:50:36 -0400
Subject: Judging

Bill Culp wrote:

<<There must have been some doubt among the team on this point or the
owner would have never been approached about this item.  This is the
only type of discussion ever made between the team & the owner.  If the
judge of that area is certain, nothing is ever revealed to the owner
about deducting points.>>

That's not the way the Olds Club of America Official Judging Rules explain
it.

If a judge is not certain whether something is correct or not, _no_ points
are to be deducted.  Also, points being deducted can, maybe even should, be
discussed with the owner.  It's educational for all concerned.  If there is a
difference in opinion, the Chief Judge decides.  Where's the problem with
that?

My observation is that AACA judges are more interested in originality and
correctness than quality of restoration.  Evidenced by an acquaintance whose
car is Preservation Senior in AACA but couldn't get a best in class in
Atlanta at the OCA meet.  The car is very correct but with wavy side panels,
nondetailed fuel tank, etc.  It is a beautiful car and the owner was upset at
the OCA meet.

Judging can follow different styles which vary from club and club and brand
to brand.

The point is, if you are going to show your car, you would be well advised to
get a copy of the judging rules for the particular club or organization,
study them, attend a few judged shows, maybe volunteer to learn about judging
and be part of a team.

The effort can save you buckets of money, bad feelings and lost friends.

<<The owner can later get a general reading of the point deductions on his
car in writing, but he will never receive that actual judging sheet. >>

Again, not the OCA way.  An owner will not receive his judging sheet at the
show but can provide an SASE ª10 envelope and receive it _after_ the show.
 That seems fairer to me.  Both systems apparently seek to avoid serious
confrontations at the meet.  Considering how some owners attach their egos to
their cars, that's a good thing.

Neither OCA nor AACA look for matching numbers.  What a novel concept!  :-))
 Does that tell anyone what's really important?  Restore your car and enjoy
it.  It's only the museum and investment cars that this means ANYTHING to.
 And there are very few cars that meet that definition.

I disagreed strongly with the score my car received in Atlanta.  Particularly
since there were many points incorrectly deducted. Nevertheless, it's not
cause to quit a club, not go to any more shows or seek revenge on the judges.
 I've seen all those things happen.  Good riddance from the club frankly.

Rule ª1 of the OCA rules says in upper case letters that one of the prime
purposes of an OCA meet is TO HAVE FUN.  And we usually do!

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:21:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 1954 Oldsmobile

Merlina Tate wrote:
>
> We are restoring a 1954 Olds and are looking for a picture that shows
> the two-tone paintjob.   Jim Tate

Jim,

I have some pictures that I could send privately.  Which model & body
style are you working on?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:37:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

Barnacle Bill wrote:
>
>
> >
>         Are you sure about this point?  I showed my Cutlass for the first
> time this past summer at the OCA Nationals and I believe everyone was able
> to get their judging sheet back if they handed in an envelope with their
> address on it.  Is their a difference between the actual judging sheet and
> the piece of paper I received.
>         This paper I have has some details about where I went wrong and
> what needed to be improved with some deductions itemized also.  Could the
> judges have been leinient(sp?) because I am a a young beginner in this
> hobby and I did not have a copy of the actual rules to go by?
>
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme

Bill,

When you send the letter to AACA, you receive the summary from AACA
National Headquarters that is authorized by them.  They review the
actual judging form & then send you a sketchy evaluation for your use.
This allows you to work on the areas that the judges felt were deficient
in any significant way.

No one takes it easy on you - actually your car.  Cars are judged as
they appear with no concern for the owner.  The car speaks for itself.

Don't feel that you received any special treatment by OCA either.  You
must have a fine car & do nice work.  I suspect that you would have done
very well in AACA national judging also.  Please don't confuse local
AACA sponsored shows w/nationa shows.  The standards are much different.

Don't forget your documentation for anything that you feel might be
misinterpreted in a handy place for the judges.  Get a copy of the
judging rules from AACA.  I believe that they are free.  They are free
at every judging school which is a no cost event.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:27:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 1954 Oldsmobile

I know of a 54 Olds sales brochure for sale. Cover is the same pic on
Brycemans Olds Page. Not sure what all is inside. Interested?


1976 Cutlass S (1st owner)
1976 Cutlass S (2nd owner)
1983 Delta 88  (1st owner)

Marvin Friesen
Vancouver, BC, Canada

- ----------
> From: Merlina Tate <merlinat@televar.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 1954 Oldsmobile
> Date: Sunday, March 23, 1997 9:12 AM
>
> We are restoring a 1954 Olds and are looking for a picture that shows
> the two-tone paintjob.   Jim Tate

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:32:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

Jason Labay wrote:
> Now if you want the ultimate, mean as hell sound go with the SLP or Borla
> muffler. Just be prepared to pay alot of $$$ for them.

Or try the Edelbrock RPM series.  Again, tho, they are expensive $$$.

- --

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8

 adcockjk@erols.com
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:35:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 1987 Salon 442 Different

>>He went with the Salon because it was the same power (according to >>him)
with a more plush suspension. > > Hey, my '87 442 resembles that remark!  :-)
Seriously, he must have >been driving some VERY plush riding trucks, because
my '89 GMC rides >pretty good, but it's nowhere near as smooth as the 442.
Just my .02 >cents...

Also, doesn't the Salon have the 'Y' motor worth about 150 hp vs. the
442's 180?

- --

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8

 adcockjk@erols.com
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:38:05 -0400
Subject: Re: wheels for Calais

James William Townsend wrote:
>
> Speaking of different-sized wheels, does anyone know if Olds produced any
> 15- or 16-inch diameter wheels for the Calais?  Mine has factory
> 14-inch wheels.  They are the alloy, five spoke design.
> I would like to keep the same style as the ones I have, but have a little
> bit larger diameter wheel to someday swap in some larger brakes.  I think
> a slightly larger wheel would look a little nicer, too. The 14-inchers
> look a little dinky. (Sorry, I DON'T mean to sound ungrateful!)
> I've seen some nice aftermarket designs, but I'd prefer to stick
> with a factory-made design that looks like the ones I already have.
>
> Thanx for your input!
>
>          Jim Townsend

Do I remember correctly, you have a '90?  I don't think they put on
anything larger than 14", a friend of mine has 13" on her '85 Calais.
Many wheel manufacturers make similar style wheels, tho.

- --

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8

 adcockjk@erols.com
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:58:08 -0400
Subject: Re: wheels for Calais

>Speaking of different-sized wheels, does anyone know if Olds produced any
>15- or 16-inch diameter wheels for the Calais?  Mine has factory
>14-inch wheels.  They are the alloy, five spoke design.

Aren't there some alloy three spoke sixteen inch mags around on some late
model (~93 and up) cultasses.  I 've seen quite a few in parking lots and I
even saw some on a wrecked cutlass in a junkyard.  I checked the tire on one
once and they were 16" rims.  I like the looks of them and have toyed with
the idea of  finding a set for my V-C even if they do have the chicken-track
style rocket emblem in the center.  They had five bolts but I don't know if
they are on the same cn

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:11:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

Everyone is talking about AACA and the differnces between them and the
OCA, can someone tell me what AACA stands for?

Thanks,
Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:17:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

At 11:11 PM 3/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Everyone is talking about AACA and the differnces between them and the
>OCA, can someone tell me what AACA stands for?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Reilly
>'85 Cutlass Supreme
>
Antique Automotive Club of America

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: "Don DALE" <dale@pathcom.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:26:14 -0400
Subject: 1986 toronado parts

I was wondering if anybody has, or knows where I might find
a dash for my car.  It seems to have become loose because the screw holes
have pulled through.

I am also looking for a steering wheel.

Both of the above in navey blue please.

Thanks....

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

Barnacle Bill wrote:
>
> Everyone is talking about AACA and the differnces between them and the
> OCA, can someone tell me what AACA stands for?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme

It stands for Antique Automobile Club of America.  It is a club started
about 1936 to cover all cars 25 years of age or older.  It is also the
largest club both in terms of membership & US coverage.

It has problems though in that it must address the needs of a vast
range  of car eras as well as a vast range of automobile makes.  Most
clubs are not able to address this range properly.  OCA (Oldsmobile Club
of America) is catering to the newer Oldsmobiles & there is a vintage
Oldsmobile club to address the older ones.

Many of the AACA members are older.  They sometimes resent the newer
cars.  Much of the leadership is becomming younger & beginning to
address the needs of the '50s, '60s, & '70s car owners.  It isn't war,
but the feelings that "those new cars just aren't antiques" are
expressed to the crowd that wonders why anyone would get a thrill out of
"a set of slow lumbering flat head cars".

Even on this list there is a gender gap & Toros vs. 442s.  This is not
an easy alliance.  I am very happy that people co-exist here.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> That's not the way the Olds Club of America Official Judging Rules explain
> it.
>
> If a judge is not certain whether something is correct or not, _no_ points
> are to be deducted.

This is the same rule in AACA judging.  I was just referring to the
resolution of doubt.  If a judge is not sure, he can check w/the team
captain.  The team captain may ask the owner for documentation on this
point.  The team captain & that judge consult over the issue.  The judge
then decides on any points deduction.  He must feel certain if he is to
deduct anything.  Doubt goes to the owner.
 Also, points being deducted can, maybe even should, be
> discussed with the owner.  It's educational for all concerned.  If there is
a > difference in opinion, the Chief Judge decides.  Where's the problem with >
that?

Rarely will a chief judge overrule the judge on the site.  The problem
w/a great deal of discussion is arguement.  Since the show is for fun,
every effort is made to keep ill feeling to a minimum.  AACA uses very
discretion in any of it's approaches to the owner.

I'm not sure that I agree w/that, but it does keep the arguing within
the confines of the trip home when that owner doesn't place as he/she
speculated.  It is probably an admission that judges are not perfect.
The issue is similar to a baseball umpire & the review that instant
replays allows.
>
> My observation is that AACA judges are more interested in originality and
> correctness than quality of restoration.  Evidenced by an acquaintance whose
> car is Preservation Senior in AACA but couldn't get a best in class in
> Atlanta at the OCA meet.  The car is very correct but with wavy side panels,
> nondetailed fuel tank, etc.  It is a beautiful car and the owner was upset
at > the OCA meet.

Preservation in AACA is much different than first place awards.
Preservation is only a sign that the car is being preserved to a very
good standard, but may not be up to the high standard of regular
competition.  As a matter of fact, a car need only score 350 pts out of
400 for a preservation, while it must score at least 375 pts out of 400
& be within 10 points of the highest scoring car in that class.

You are perfectly right in that originality is the key to winning in
AACA meets.  Originality not only means correct parts, but correct
workmanship on those parts.  The standard for workmanship will vary
though as the panels on a Corvette is much different than an Oldsmobile.
>
> Judging can follow different styles which vary from club and club and brand
> to brand.

You are so right.  I have seen many cars get an AACA Senior award that
might not do so well in a club that is devoted to that make.  T'Birds,
Model A's, & Corvette clubs come to mind as being very stringent.  On
the other hand, Hudson & Kaiser clubs may not judge at all.
>
> The point is, if you are going to show your car, you would be well advised
to > get a copy of the judging rules for the particular club or organization, >
study them, attend a few judged shows, maybe volunteer to learn about judging >
and be part of a team. > > The effort can save you buckets of money, bad
feelings and lost friends. > > > > Again, not the OCA way.  An owner will
not receive his judging sheet at the > show but can provide an SASE ª10
envelope and receive it _after_ the show. >  That seems fairer to me.  Both
systems apparently seek to avoid serious > confrontations at the meet.
Considering how some owners attach their egos to > their cars, that's a good
thing.

Too much is made of those awards.  I have often won when I didn't
deserve it & have just as often lost when I don't know what happened.
Don't get serious about this show business unless you want more stress
than you deserve.
>

>
> Rule ª1 of the OCA rules says in upper case letters that one of the prime
> purposes of an OCA meet is TO HAVE FUN.  And we usually do!
>
> Bob Handren

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:38:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 1954 Oldsmobile

At 01:12 PM 3/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>We are restoring a 1954 Olds and are looking for a picture that shows
>the two-tone paintjob.   Jim Tate
>
Buy a copy of "Setting the Pace," which is a history of Oldsmobile.  It
shows a number of pictures of '54s, including several of two-tones.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:56:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

At 11:11 PM 3/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Everyone is talking about AACA and the differnces between them and the
>OCA, can someone tell me what AACA stands for?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Reilly
>'85 Cutlass Supreme
>

Antique Automobile Club of America

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:40:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Judging Rules

Snips

>OCA (Oldsmobile Club
>of America) is catering to the newer Oldsmobiles & there is a vintage
>Oldsmobile club to address the older ones.
>
>Many of the AACA members are older.  They sometimes resent the newer
>cars.  Much of the leadership is becomming younger & beginning to
>address the needs of the '50s, '60s, & '70s car owners.  It isn't war,
>but the feelings that "those new cars just aren't antiques" are
>expressed to the crowd that wonders why anyone would get a thrill out of
>"a set of slow lumbering flat head cars".
>
>Even on this list there is a gender gap & Toros vs. 442s.  This is not
>an easy alliance.  I am very happy that people co-exist here.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>

Bill,

You've hit a number of sensative areas right one the nose.  At over 50, I
suppose, I've fallen into the group of 'old farts' that seem to abound in
every hobby.  I started to realized it when one of my car crazy neighbor
kids told me a 'deuce coupe' was some kind of '34 Ford!  And here last week
when 'three on the tree' became the question of profound significance.

There were two other totally absorbing happenings in my favorite local gun
sshop.  One, when a graduate of the same high school I attended, could not
read the 'yellow form' required when you acquire a firearm from a dealer.
The second, when one of his friends, that strangly could read, asked to use
the phone, and had never used a rotary dial, and asked what it was.

And to ge back to automobiles, for me there is only one year of 'modern' car
that is collectible, and that is unequivically(sp) '1932.'  The rest might
have some interest, but barely so.  This by axiom, makes 'brass cars'
collectible, regardless of who, what, when, where, or why?  But in the
modern era, ie post brass, it's 1932 or nothing.  With all of this regard,
the action word in this paragraph is 'collectible.'

I suppose it's hard to consider a car you've bought new, an antique; and the
first car I bought new was a 1968!

And I think in fact it just may be war, not quite the same hot war, as
between restorers vs hot rodders, but maybe a cold one.

Again, for me, the truth is I like lots of cars.  I believe that the most
attractive styling ever on an automobile occured on the 1932 Cadillac, and
this styling was borrowed; in reduced size by Chevrolet.  My favorite car
company is obviously, General Motors; but the most collected car company is
Ford.  I did a census of pre-war cars for sale one time, and came up with a
big four.  Ford, Chevrolet, Buick and Packard...and then the also rans.
There were nearly as many packards offered as all of the remainder combined!

I've never owned a BAD car.  I've never owned a jap car.  And I'm of the
opinion that Ford electrical system left a lot to be desired.  I think my
new Roadmaster is as powerful as my '68 Corvette w/427 was when it was new;
even though it did cost a bit more.  The Corvette was only $4656.65.  The
427 engine option was $200.15, and the poorest part on the car what the
AM/FM radio that seldom worked for $172.75.

What I don't like about the Roadmaster is that it has a bit less than the
necessary amount of head room, and on  the flip side, on my recent 2181 mile
trip it used 99.7 gallons of gasoline, for a fuel economy figure of just
short of 22mpg; which isn't all that shabby.  And when you floor it it
nearly leaves you breathless.  I know one of the Morristown, TN, city
policemen, and his personal car is 5.0 'stang.  We had a bit of a road race
when I was leaving, and he was surprised that a relatively big sedan, with 3
big adults people in it left him in the dust all the way to 100 mph.  I did
tell him I did do a little work to the engine.  Ha ha...  The Roadmaster
proves that you can have a decent sized car, with more than plenty of power
that can get respectible fuel economy.

Enough pontificating on Sunday night.  Didn't solve anything, but I enjoyed
it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: adamco@infowest.com (Monson)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:57:44 -0400
Subject: help!

Help!!  My 1953 Oldsmobile Super 88 has been a victim of vandalism.  I'm
looking for a replacement for a rear window.  It happened at school.  I
hope someone out there can here me and help me.

                                Desperate Looker,
                                             Youngin'

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:39:24 -0400
Subject: '53 Olds Rear Window

Forwarding... don't use the "H*lp" word in the subject line, please....

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

From:adamco@infowest.com (Monson)
Subject: help!

Help!!  My 1953 Oldsmobile Super 88 has been a victim of vandalism.  I'm
looking for a replacement for a rear window.  It happened at school.  I
hope someone out there can here me and help me.

                                Desperate Looker,
                                             Youngin'

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:18:22 -0400
Subject: Setting the pace

Where is the best place to buy Setting the pace? I have looked in the book
stores and none of them around here carry it.
Walter

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:00 -0400
Subject: 3.3 vs.3.8 v-6's

Kevin- I was comparing the 86-87 3.8 to the 90 3.3 when I called the 3.8's
a 'tractor engine' as compared to the 3.3. Maybe the later 3.8's changed that.
I figured this before I looked up the specs because my father in law has an
85 Ciera w/ the 3.8 and it don't rev like my 3.3 does.






FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 87 Olds GT

Matt- this car is the Cutlass *Ciera* not the RWD Salon, Broughem(sp) etc.
I have a factory Olds 'performance' brochure and it includes this car(also the
442 and Firenza GT) It had leather/pigskin interior and 3.8 v6 engine. Pretty
slick car. Came only in the coupe w/ all the rare options. I would say that it
was the predissor to the International Series Ciera.





FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:14:26 -0400
Subject: RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

I missed the beginning of this thread or at least parts of it, somehow
didn't receive the previous posts.

Anyway, Pontiac Historical Services has build sheets up to 81 I think, and
if the car is newer you can just call them and get the info over the phone.
It is $25, not $50, and usually takes about 3 to 6 weeks.  I've sent away
for copies of build sheets for 4 different GTO's, two I bought, one I
almost bought and the other one, well let's just say it was weird and I
passed although I have the actual vin plate from the door frame.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris_r._smetana@dadc.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertable
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback


>Its hard to sell a cloned GT0 as an original, Pontiac Historical Society
offers the original build >sheets for most all the cars from 60 to 75.  It
costs
>$50, and takes two weeks to get it.  Just about everybody selling a real
GTO
>has the PHS sheet to show to prospective buyers.  Its hard for me to
believe
>Oldsmobile doesnt have their build sheets tucked away somewhere.
>Mike

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:16:08 -0400
Subject: 1949 Salesman's Book For Sale (3/24)

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to
sell:

1949 Futuramic Oldsmobile salesman's Facts Book.  Over 200 4-1/2 x
7-1/2 inch pages of specifications and selling features of the 1949
Oldsmobile product line, including the "Rocket" V-8 and "Big Six"
engines, Hydra-Matic Drive, chassis, body, and accessories.  Bound in
original six ring looseleaf binder.  Very good condition.  $125.00,
including insured shipping to any address in the United States.
(3/24/97)

Please notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to
purchase this item or if you would like additional information about
it.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: Matthew Butler <matthewbutler@oscsystems.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:36:22 -0400
Subject: Apology for the Porsche Post

Sorry about that folks... Didn't mean to bother ya'll with a Porsche
question ;)  I wondered why no one had responded to me off of the
Porsche list serve.  Anyway, Sorry about that...

Matt Butler

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:15:00 -0400
Subject: Parts

     Jim Chermack are you still out there?? I'm temporarily off the Email
list so please respond privately. I need a few parts. Thanks !!!

*************************************************************
John Pajak     "DR. OLDS"
Lexington Park, MD
Pajak_John%PAX1@MR.NAWCAD.NAVY.MIL

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:43:02 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Rear Code

Jim Chermack wrote:

>         Sometimes you almost have to be a magician to find them. I've seen
> them upside down and on the front of the axle tube instead of them back
> side. Take a small wire brush and some thinner and see if that helps.

Here is the million dollar question:  Is the code embossed or etched in
the metal?
I was looking for embossed lettering.  Maybe that is the problem.

Chris

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.feith.com (Peter L. House)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:20:59 -0400
Subject: 442 Wheels

If anybody is looking for the 15 x 7 GM Chrome Oldsmobile wheels
that came on the 442 / Hurst in the 80's, The part number is GM
22528518 I don't have the center cap number. The last time that I
checked the price was $300 US

phouse@feith.com
87 Cutlass Salon 70K V8 (307)

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.feith.com (Peter L. House)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:26:21 -0400
Subject: 87 Salon 442 diff.

There are three diff. spring rates for the V8 Cutlass the soft
mushy one for the Brougham and there is the middle one I believe
for the 442 and then the really stiff one I believe for the trailer
pkg

phouse@feith.com
1987 Salon 70k V8 (307)

------------------------------

From: Matthew Butler <matthewbutler@oscsystems.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:38:25 -0400
Subject: Answers to the Porsche Tranny Problem!!!

Howdy All,

I don't think that I have laughed that loud in a long time.  Some of ya'lls
answers were absolutely histerical :).  I especially like the one about the
vista cruiser.  I beat the vista could give a 928 a good run for its money!  I
also liked the creative answers such as the dash mounted kick-down
switch and the hose installation to get the switch activated quicker.  I will
keep my eyes out for the Craig Breedlove at the bonneville salt flats as
well.

All in all, much better advice than I usually get from the Porsche list.

Thanks,

Matt Butler

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:36:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Setting the pace

At 09:18 AM 3/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Where is the best place to buy Setting the pace? I have looked in the book
>stores and none of them around here carry it.
>Walter
>
>
Try the Olds Museum at Lansing.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:44:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Rear Code

At 10:43 AM 3/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim Chermack wrote:
>
>>         Sometimes you almost have to be a magician to find them. I've seen
>> them upside down and on the front of the axle tube instead of them back
>> side. Take a small wire brush and some thinner and see if that helps.
>
>Here is the million dollar question:  Is the code embossed or etched in
>the metal?
>I was looking for embossed lettering.  Maybe that is the problem.
>
>Chris
>
>

Chris,

As I recall the letters are stamped in with metal letter die stamps.
Embossed to me means hitting the item in a die, and raising the letters to
the front, like on a Vin plate.  Sort of backwards metal stamping.  And
likely close to impossible, considering the weight of the axle housing tubes.

To find, get a wire brush, and clean the entire tube to bear metal with it.
Look to the rear first, passenger side first.  No luck, then to the front
drivers side, still no luck, then look to the front.

I think that they had a standard marking proceedure in the factory, but
sometimes things are rushed.  Also, as a remote possiblity, the marking is
put in before the housing is welded together, and the tubes are moved around
to the remote locations.

Good luck...

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:53:49 -0400
Subject: Re: wheels for Calais

On 23 Mar 97 at 18:58, James William Townsend wrote:

> Speaking of different-sized wheels, does anyone know if Olds
> produced any 15- or 16-inch diameter wheels for the Calais?

The '91 442 had (late production, I've only seen pictures) 15x6
wheels.  The service manual has pictures too.  They're brushed
aluminum, with a turned spoke, with gold inside.  They were pictured
in the '91 sales brochure.

All '90 and '91 International Series cars had 16" wheels.  They are
grey, with eye-drop holes.  Wouldn't be too attractive with the gold
stripe on your car (unless its grey too).

Olds saw a performance advantage with the wheels on your car.  Too
bad they look a lot like the 13" and 14" ones found on the Buicks.

> has factory 14-inch wheels.  They are the alloy, five spoke design.
> I would like to keep the same style as the ones I have, but have a
> little bit larger diameter wheel to someday swap in some larger
> brakes.

You will definitely need to replace the wheels if you go with a
larger diameter rotor.  Mantapart just came out with a larger brake
kit for the n-body.

> I think a slightly larger wheel would look a little nicer,
> too. The 14-inchers look a little dinky. (Sorry, I DON'T mean to

I still have the O.E. 14" wheels on my '93 SCX, and they do look a little
small compared to the 15" BBS 5 points on my 442.  But the 14" wheels
with BFG Comp T/A VRs sure do stick better than the 15" wheels with
Comp T/A HR4s.  Of course, the SCX has a lot fewer miles (23K vs.
117k), and a completely different suspension.  But you would think
the 442 would be better, with Koni struts, and Tokico shocks.

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

------------------------------

From: Fred Martin <fmartin@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:14:58 -0400
Subject: 1970 olds value

Does anyone have a good estimate of the value of a 1970 Olds Delta 88
with only 14000 miles? It's in very good condition and being driven
after being in a garage for years.

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:14:00 -0400
Subject: Dynomax for Ciera

I ordered a Walker Dynomax cat back for my 90 Ciera XC. I hope it won't bee
too loud. I had a Walker Dynomax on another car and set off car alarms when I
drove by 8-0.
Has anyone installed one on a FWD v-6?
I found out some more production ª's for the XC just for grins.
The 89 XC's were much more common. 4739 sedans and 1913 coupes.
The rarest is the 90 XC *station wagon*. Only 179 were built. Wow, I can see
some poor guy in 20 years trying to find parts to restore one<grin>


FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:15:04 -0400
Subject: Re: paint clear coat problems - 86 "98"

GM seemed to have a lot of paint problems in the late '80's.  I had a
'86 Ciera GT Coupe with Burgundy paint that spiderweb'ed, and a '89
Cutlass Supreme, whose white paint exhibited simular traits to yours.

The solution for both cars was to have ALL of the paint removed (to
bare metal) and repainted.  Olds picked up the tab on my '89, the '86
went to a local shop that did an outstanding job for $500.

Good luck.

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX

On 23 Mar 97 at 20:01, Jeff & Patti Kobinsky wrote:

> I have a 86 olds "98" (white) that has the clear coat finish coming
> off in sheets.
> It is in different areas, no rust or dings involved.
> My question - How do I repair this finish? - Do I need to refinish
> the entire car?
>
> The original paint is still on my 65 - F85 and looks better than the
> 86.
>
> I hope to keep the car for at least another year before I sell it
> (and buy another olds of course.)
>
> Any info appreciated.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª575
********************************
