To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #585


oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 31 March 1997       Volume 01 : Number 585

'56 Holiday 88 for sale
Re: olds summer car show dates
Re: olds summer car show dates
LA Junkyards
Racing Champions '69 442
Cutlass Power Baby!
[Fwd: 4-sale 65 442 conv.]
Re: Oil Weight
Battery Volts
RE: Cutlass Power Baby!
Cutlass Clubs
Re: Cutlass Power Baby!
Cam question
Disc brake find
Re: Cutlass Clubs
Re: Cutlass Clubs
Re: Quarter Window Weatherstrip Replacement
Re: New Repro Shifter Lens has arrived
Pictures of my Olds
Re: LA Junkyards
Re: Battery Volts
SSIV polycast wheels
Re: Pictures of my Olds
Re: SSIV polycast wheels
Re: How do I fix noisy lifters?
Re: Battery Volts
RE: Carb Question
Re: Electric Cars
Re: Supercharger
RIMS/TIRES
RIMS/TIRES
442 in Missoula MT  and other babble...
Re: Battery Volts
Re: Oil Weight
RE: Carb Question
Re: 400 Motors
Re: How do I fix noisy lifters?
Re: 61 STARFIRE
TOYS
Re: LA Junkyards
RE: Rare Cars?
Re: Oil Weight
1967 Cutlass Sold!!!
Re: rear size
Pace car spotted
Misc comments and feedback
Re: RIMS/TIRES
F-body knuckle swap into A-body; handling improvements

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pteubel@safety1st.com (Peter Teubel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:05:06 -0400
Subject: '56 Holiday 88 for sale


        There's a guy in Wrentham, MA who has a '56 Olds Holiday 88 for
     sale.  I was over there a few weeks ago but he wasn't ready to sell
     it.  He called me up this weekend and said he NOW wants to get rid of
     it.  Too late for me....I'm committed to a '73 Imperial purchase.

        2-dr, 324 engine (completely rebuilt...looks brand new), frame has
     been sandblasted and etch-primed.  Loads of excellent chrome.  Body is
     in GC (some work needed).  Its completely dissassembled and this guy
     just wants it gone.  He's asking $2500.

        Contact him directly.     -->  Richard Fisher  508-384-8513


     Peter G. Teubel

     pteubel@safety1st.com
     '51 98 (50% complete....currently a driveway ornament)
     '52 Plymouth (Project-in-waiting....driveway ornament ª2)
     '73 Imperial (Coming soon...known as USS Enterprise)
     '82 98 (Also known as the USS Nimitz)
     '84 C10 P-up (junkyard hauler)
     '86 Ciera (Wife's car)
     '88 Subaru Turbo (Distainful communter vehicle that actually gets out
         of its own way)

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:04:17 -0400
Subject: Re: olds summer car show dates

Chris
  June 1st  Berijek Olds Highland Ave Needham, Mass GMO Chapter of Olds Club
Spring Dust Off

  August  20 - 23  100th Anniversery of Olds in Lansing Mich.

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:20:02 -0400
Subject: Re: olds summer car show dates

At 04:00 PM 3/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>i am planning my summer vacations and am wondering if anyone can give me
>the dates and locations of the best olds shows this summer.
>
>Thanks
>
>Chris Matthes
>73 cutlass

Chris,

It's a BIG country!  I know because I looked at a map of it once.  :)


What parts of it are you planning to vacation in?  Or were you going to see
where the shows are first and _then_ plan your vacation?  If so, you've got
one heck of a spouse (if you're married, that is).


Of course, it goes without saying that the ª1 Olds show of this or any year
would be the annual Mid-Ohio Chapter OCA All-Oldsmobile Car Show and Swap
Meet slated this year for September 21 in Columbus, Ohio.  A distant ª2
would be that 100th anniversary thing or some such in Lansing or
thereabouts I've been hearing about on and off over the last year or so.



Dan



************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: LA Junkyards

Yesterday I did a tour d'pick-a-part down in Wilmington (near Los Angeles
Harbor)  thought I'd pass on what I saw to our LA members.  At the one at the
north end of Blinn there was a very complete 68-70 98 with a bigblock
quadrajet intake (no carb) and C heads.  Man what a ride that must  have been.
Black brocade cloth everywhere.  I snagged a nice headrest for my 70 Cutlass
and the mercury switch trunk lamp (haven't tested it yet).  There was also a
near complete ~66 dynamic 88 2 door with A heads.  Several G body Cutlass all
with rust free doors (and fenders and bumpers 30 bucks each  BTW).  At the
yard on south Blinn I ran into the only 442 I've ever seen in a LA
pick-a-part.  Maybe about a 76 (top half of grill slopes at 45 degrees), Blue,
very complete and rust free,  reasonable console and buckets.  Also a 73
cutlass with 4 SSIII wheels (14x7) with trim rings but no centercaps.  Email
me direct to get directions on how to get to these yards.

Now for a question on rear anti-roll bars for my 70 Cutlass.  I've never seen
a 68-72 A body with an antiroll bar in the local yards but lots of 80's G
bodies (bar bolts to the side of the control rod) and lots of early-mid 70's
Monte Carlos which I think are very closely related to the A body.  On Monte
Carlos, an adapter fits inside the control arm, is clamped on with horizontal
bolts (my Cutlass has holes for this) and then the anti-roll bar bolts onto
the bottom of this adapter with 4 vertical bolts.

Which, if either, of these two syles of bars will fit my '70 Cutlass and are
these stock bars stiff enough to be worth adding.  Should I just go
aftermarket? Which aftermarket bars work well and bolt up easily?

Thanks, Hans
'70 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:28:00 -0400
Subject: Racing Champions '69 442

A little while back someone on the list posted about Racing Champions
releasing a '69 442 soon.  I checked out their page and found out it was
going to be a maroon car with only 19,997 produced.  I had looked at
their cars in the past, and they all seemed to have good detail for 1:58
scale (engines and aircleaners right color, decals and emblems legible,
etc).   Imagine my surprise when I went to the local Wal-Mart and found
one that was white with gold stripes!  Apparently they will be releasing
a number of different "issues", each with different colors.  Anyway, the
car is CRAP!  If the engine bay in our cars matched the model, it would
take you 2 days to change all eight spark plugs!  The aircleaner looks
like a GSX aircleaner (put on backwards at that) and the car looks like
a lowrider   I was so disappointed I went to their page and sent them my
opinions:

"I was very disappointed with the '69 Olds 442.  I have seen other cars
in the series which had very good detail, which the 442 lacked.  Some
examples are: grill should be blacked out, not chrome; wheels sit way
too high in the wheel wells; engine should not be chromed; aircleaner is
incorrect (and should not be chromed).  These are items I have noticed
on other cars in the series which were correct.  If your going to make
the product, DO IT RIGHT!"

Bottom line: Don't waste your time looking for this, you will be sorely
disappointed.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: nino@icanect.net (Jose A. Nino)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:44:52 -0400
Subject: Cutlass Power Baby!

I would like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Jose Nino. I am
16 and live in Miami, FL. I bought myself a '94 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
Coupe with the optional DOHC 3.4L 220hp V6. Wow, the power this engine
produces is incredible. I love it when others challenge me at red lights
with their Japanese "so called" muscle cars.

Anyways, I look forward to engaging with this group. Thanx.
take care
- -jose nino
nino@icanect.net

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:01:37 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: 4-sale 65 442 conv.]

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 08:52:33 -0800
From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 4-sale 65 442 conv.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

65 442 CONV 4-SALE.  POWER EVERYTYHING(SEATS, WINDOWS, ANTENNA), AIR,
TACH, AND  TOTALLY RESTORED INCLUDING PAINT, ENGINE, SUSPENSION,
INTERIOR, TIRES, CHROME, AND TOP. ALL PROFESSIONALLY DONE. 12,000 B/O.
CAR IS WHITE WITH A WHITE INTERIOR AND TOP.  IT'S LOCATED ON CAPE COD,
MASS. E-MAIL: JFOWLER@CAPECOD.NET

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:01:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Weight

> |                        |---- 20W,10W-30,10W-40,20W-40 ----->      |
> |               |- 10W,5W-30,10W-30,10W-40-|                        |
> | <---- 5W-20, 5W-30 ----|                                          |
> |      |        |        |        |        |        |        |      |
> |    -20        0       20       40       60       80       100     |

This table, as Kurt has kindly provided, really shows how oil technology
has changed in the past 26 years.  Today, 5W-30 is preferred for year
round use, since it now resists breakdown far better than in 1971.
According to a 1995 GM manual, 10W-40 and 20W-50 or any other grade aside
from 5W-30 and 10W-30 are not recommended for use.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:27:43 -0400
Subject: Battery Volts

I have a question for the electrical gurus out there.

I'm bringing my '64 out of winter hibernation. Even though the battery
was out of it all winter, I checked it today before putting it back in
the car and it shows only about 9 volts. Not good for a 12-volt battery.
Do I have a dead cell or two, or is it just discharged? Any advice
greatly appreciated...hope my DieHard hasn't died!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Yonge <gsyonge@genesisnetwork.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:50:10 -0400
Subject: RE: Cutlass Power Baby!

Wow!! Would I love to get my hands on one of those!! It's really a shame that
Olds quit making them with that engine. ~sigh~ What would really be nice is a
Supreme with the 3800 series II Supercharged!  Anyone else agree?

Greg
'92 Achieva SC Quad4 HO 5spd.

- -----Original Message-----
From:Jose A. Nino [SMTP:nino@icanect.net]
Sent:Sunday, March 30, 1997 4:45 PM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Cutlass Power Baby!

I would like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Jose Nino. I am
16 and live in Miami, FL. I bought myself a '94 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
Coupe with the optional DOHC 3.4L 220hp V6. Wow, the power this engine
produces is incredible. I love it when others challenge me at red lights
with their Japanese "so called" muscle cars.

Anyways, I look forward to engaging with this group. Thanx.
take care
- -jose nino
nino@icanect.net



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: JSalavar@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:10:44 -0400
Subject: Cutlass Clubs

I'm trying to find out about Cutlass Clubs in Fort Worth, Texas.  Can you
help?

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:13:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Power Baby!

Jose A. Nino wrote:
>
> I would like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Jose Nino. I am
> 16 and live in Miami, FL. I bought myself a '94 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
> Coupe with the optional DOHC 3.4L 220hp V6. Wow, the power this engine
> produces is incredible. I love it when others challenge me at red lights
> with their Japanese "so called" muscle cars.
>
> Anyways, I look forward to engaging with this group. Thanx.
> take care
> -jose nino
> nino@icanect.net

Sounds good...I always loved the 90's Cutlasses, especially with the
DOHC V6 and the five star rims.  I'm still watching out for an 87 442,
though.  Maybe even a 69 Hurst/Olds   :)

- --

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 OCA ª028044
 adcockjk@erols.com

 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
 73K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
 Also viewable through http://www.442.com

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:07:30 -0400
Subject: Cam question

I'm putting a cam (.540/.540 252@.050) in my 455.  My quesion is does
anyone know how much my heads can be milled before I risk introducing a
valve into a piston?  I'm using the "10.2:1" TRW shallow dish forged
pistons.  I would like to mill approx .050 off the heads to get
compression close to 11:1.  Think this'll be possible without notching
the pistons?

Thanks,
rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: David Nye <jdnye@norfolk.infi.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:24:46 -0400
Subject: Disc brake find

Hey everyone, This weekend while in search of a harmonic balancer, I
found a '71 Cutlass in a bone yard with the disc brakes intact. Rotors,
calipers, spindles, M/C, distribution valve... the works. If anyone is
interested, it's in a yard in Virginia Beach. The guy said that he'd
take $200 for the works. If I can be of any help, drop me a line. (By
the way, I found my balancer!)
David Nye
'71 (motor to drop in next week) Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:52:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Clubs

There is no Cutlass club in Ft. Worth, but the North Texas Oldsmobile Club
usually meets in Dallas. Email me at my address and I'll tell you more.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com
Chapter Rep.
North Texas Oldsmobile Club

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Clubs

jsalavar,
            you might check with the north texas olds club, sonny
morgan, president. his work number is 972-385-7575.

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bjbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:38:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Quarter Window Weatherstrip Replacement

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Last night on IRC we got to talking about replacing weatherstrip and
> someone asked me to post the results when I did mine. I just finished
> doing the quarter window w/s earlier today and it wasn't too tough. There
> were a couple of tricks, though.
>

> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

 Hey Greg, I was the one who asked about the w/s job. Sounds like the
job could even be done by someone like me!!:) Thanks for the info.
- --

Brad  '68 Cutlass S Convertible
MailTo:bjbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:14:27 -0400
Subject: Re: New Repro Shifter Lens has arrived

At 04:12 PM 3/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim,
>I am going to purchase one of your repro shifter lens. I want to know how
long >it will take you to ship it. If I like it, I will order more, but if I
do I will >need them pretty quick. Let me know. >I also need your private
Email address to do this busines. Thank You. > >Art Fuller >mefco@sprynet.com >


Art

        The first run should be in this week. I'll send you one and see if
you like it. Just let me know how many you would then like to get and the
order should take a week or two to get things rolling.

Jim Chermack

chermac@exis.net

------------------------------

From: Teresa stump <tstump@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:15:51 -0400
Subject: Pictures of my Olds

Hi all,
With some help from this group, I finally have a nearly complete Olds.
I just got the pictures up and would love some comments.  So, please go
and check her out and let me know what you think.
And...thanks to all who helped me.
Teresa
http://members.tripod.com/~tstump/olds.html

tstump@pacbell.net

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:23:27 -0400
Subject: Re: LA Junkyards

hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM wrote:
>

> Now for a question on rear anti-roll bars for my 70 Cutlass.  I've never
seen a > 68-72 A body with an antiroll bar in the local yards but lots of 80's
G bodies > (bar bolts to the side of the control rod) and lots of early-mid
70's Monte > Carlos which I think are very closely related to the A body.  On
Monte Carlos, > an adapter fits inside the control arm, is clamped on with
horizontal bolts (my > Cutlass has holes for this) and then the anti-roll bar
bolts onto the bottom of > this adapter with 4 vertical bolts. > > Which, if
either, of these two syles of bars will fit my '70 Cutlass and are > these
stock bars stiff enough to be worth adding.  Should I just go aftermarket? >
Which aftermarket bars work well and bolt up easily? > > Thanks, Hans > '70
Cutlass Convertible

Hans,

Niether of the ones you mentioned will work on your 70.  Any 68-72
Cutlass, 442, Hurst, or Chevelle, Buick GS, or GTO will work.  They are
all the same for those years only.  However, you must have the boxed
lower control arms for these to work.  You can get factory boxed lower
control arms, and swaybar, and shims/bolts from Year One in Tucker, GA.
They mail order Cutlass and other GM and Mopar stuff.  The toll free
number is 1-800-950-9503.  Out of all of them, they have the best prices
overall and fast shipping.  Just a few days and it's there!  Do NOT use
your existing (open bottom) lower control arms, for they would just be
twisted up when you install the bar and corner the first time.  The
boxed ones (flat bottom due to stiffening insert) MUST be used.  If you
belong to a car club, they usually give a 10% discount too.  Give them a
try, and let me know how it goes.

Good luck,
Mike Rothe

71&85 442, 69 Hurst/Olds

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:39:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Battery Volts

On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:27:43 -0400 Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
writes:
>
>I have a question for the electrical gurus out there.
>
>I'm bringing my '64 out of winter hibernation. Even though the battery
>
>was out of it all winter, I checked it today before putting it back in
>
>the car and it shows only about 9 volts. Not good for a 12-volt
>battery.
>Do I have a dead cell or two, or is it just discharged? Any advice
>greatly appreciated...hope my DieHard hasn't died!
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
>Canada
>
Take it out and recharge it. If the charge holds, your battery is ok. If
not, the Diehard died hard. I had the same happen to my car this year. I
took a freshly charged battery  to it , unhooked the old battery and
hooked up the charged battery. My 72 Cutlass fired right up!!  I then
unhooked the charged battery and hooked up the dead one (the one that
spent the winter in the car). The alternator recharged it while i re-
inflated a couple of tires and while I drove it home. The battery's been
in the car since I re-ignited the Rocket motor  and is holding strong!!!

Katana72
Hastings, MN
>
>

------------------------------

From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:43:12 -0400
Subject: SSIV polycast wheels

I have a set of the polycast SSIV wheels on my 1972 Delta 88 Royale
Convertible and I wish to restore them.  Throughout a lengthy search, even
contacting the Olds History Center, I have not been able to find much
information on these wheels. I am looking for the correct color paint to
use for their restoration, any suggestions to repair deep scratches and
small notches in the rubber cast, and the correct type of trim ring to use.
 I am also looking for NOS center caps and trim rings.  Thanks to anyone
who can help!



David Betz, OCA ª025924
dbetz@netwalk.com

1972 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
1978 98 Regency 2-door coupe (daily driver)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:05:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Pictures of my Olds

Teresa stump wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> With some help from this group, I finally have a nearly complete Olds.
> I just got the pictures up and would love some comments.  So, please go
> and check her out and let me know what you think.
> And...thanks to all who helped me.
> Teresa
> http://members.tripod.com/~tstump/olds.html
>
> tstump@pacbell.net

Teresa,

That car looks to be worth a little more than $1.  My '62 Jetfire
started life as that shade of metallic blue.  Maybe I should have kept
it that way.  Congratulations.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:11:46 -0400
Subject: Re: SSIV polycast wheels

DAVID BETZ wrote:
>
> I have a set of the polycast SSIV wheels on my 1972 Delta 88 Royale
> Convertible and I wish to restore them.  Throughout a lengthy search, even
> contacting the Olds History Center, I have not been able to find much
> information on these wheels. I am looking for the correct color paint to
> use for their restoration, any suggestions to repair deep scratches and
> small notches in the rubber cast, and the correct type of trim ring to use.
>  I am also looking for NOS center caps and trim rings.  Thanks to anyone
> who can help!
>
> David Betz

David,

I don't even know what these wheels look like, but I have an idea on
repairs & painting.  Get some of the flexible filler used for newer
bunpers.  It adhears well & paints well.  The only trouble might be
matching the texture on the wheels.  There is a full range of flexible
paints for this material too.  See a good paint dealer.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:41:33 -0400
Subject: Re: How do I fix noisy lifters?

In a message dated 97-03-30 13:34:47 EST, you write:

<< My lifters are getting noisy in my 350 Rocket.  Do I remove the intake
manifold and replace them or is there some way of adjusting them?  I have a
stock 71' Cutlass Supreme.
  >>
could be noisy due to broken pivots or sticking lifters.  If all the pivots
check out, then i would suggest in draining your oil change oil filter, add 4
fresh quarts of oil and 1 quart of transmission fluid.  Trans oil is highly
detergent oil and will unstick sticky lifters. Now this depends also how many
miles you have on the car.  I have done this to cars up to 96,000 miles on
them.  Run the engine for about 15 to 30 minutes.  drain oil and change
filter, and add 5 fresh quarts of recommended oil, which would be 10w-40 for
summer and 10w-30 for winter. If this doesnt fix the problem, then you will
have to probably replace the lifters, if you go that route, check the timing
chain and check the lobes on the cam.  EMAIL OR CALL ME AT 313 336 8135 AFTER
4:30 eastern  By the way, use Dextron III oil instead of type F trans oil

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:53:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Battery Volts

At 21:27 3/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I have a question for the electrical gurus out there.
>
>I'm bringing my '64 out of winter hibernation. Even though the battery
>was out of it all winter, I checked it today before putting it back in
>the car and it shows only about 9 volts. Not good for a 12-volt battery.
>Do I have a dead cell or two, or is it just discharged? Any advice
>greatly appreciated...hope my DieHard hasn't died!
>

  You will want to trickle charge the battery. Put it on a charger set at 2
amps for 24 hours.  Taking it out of the car that is being stored for a
considerable period of time is a good idea but you have to make sure that it
isn't put away on a concrete floor or such because it will drain off due to
the moisture through the floor. It is best kept sitting on a couple of 2x4's
for insulation sake.  After you trickle charge it you can test it with a
hydrometer in each cell if it is an open type battery.  As long as all cells
read 1100 to 1300 your good to go.  If you find a cell that falls well below
then its probable that the battery is shot.

 Glenn
 '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Aaron R. Weimer" <aweimer@ameritech.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:05:08 -0400
Subject: RE: Carb Question

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3D67.3299D740
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- -----Original Message-----
From:John Oder [SMTP:jaoder@navix.net]
Sent:Saturday, March 29, 1997 10:53 PM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Carb Question

Being new to Old's Muscle cars I was wondering if they ever used Holley
carbs on any of them?  Also did they have a power drum brake system on
70's Cutlass's?

John Oder
70 Cutlass SX W-32

[Aaron R. Weimer]  =09
Sure do bud.. I have a 750 Holley Double Pump W/ Mechanical =
Secondaries.  Love it and works very well.. 10 X better then those old =
quadrajunks.

Aaron=20
1972 4-4-2 W30
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3D67.3299D740--

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:34:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Electric Cars

>Even if they build electric cars out of tissue paper, and find a low weight
>high efficency battery, in the end all they are going to do is move, (as
>suggested in several other contributions to this post) the problem away from
>the source.

Well it would be mainly a displacement of the pollution, but don't
completely dismiss the idea.  Depending on how efficient and clean the
actual power plants are at burning coal and delivering electricity, an
improvement in emissions and efficiency could still be realized.  If the
power plant is efficient as a conventional car at producing power output,
the electric car will have an advantage when it comes to miles traveled per
amount of fuel burned. This is due to the operating characteristics of an
electric motor as opposed to an IC engine.  In addition, it can "regenerate"
some of the energy used to propel the car when it slows down by way of
regenerative braking.  It's worth a substantial amount of energy.

The same goes for pollution.  If the power plant produces the same amount of
pollution as conventional car in generating x watts of power, the elecric
car will be able to go farther for the pollution produced.

>Also, gasoline engines are substantially better than 20%
>efficient.

Well if you ever come across the exact numbers, I'd like to know what they
are.  It's been so long I can't remember but I think it was in the 15%-25%
range.


>
>Also, electric cars are nowhere near as efficient as a gasoline one,
>considering all aspects of energy production, use and delivery.

Well I wouldn't say that.  There is a Ch*vy lumina that has been converted
to a hybrid electric vehicle that can travel 50 miles on the equivalent in
propane to 1 gallon of gas.  This is accomplished by using an onboard
generator that provides power to run the car while charging a bank of
batteries that provide high voltage and current for periods of acceleration.
The generator is powered by a propane-burning internal combustion engine
running in the rpm range where it achieves peak efficiency.  Since the
electric motor does the legwork, the IC engine can operate at a steady rpm
where it can be tuned for maximum efficiency and emissions.  Better than it
could ever get if it were connected directly to the transaxle and made to
run the entire rpm range between 500-4000rpm as seen in everyday driving.

Now, even if there are conventional vehicles that could achieve 50mpg city,
could they run zero-to-sixty in 11.21 seconds?  With a curb weigh of 4390lb
and room for five?(Well, four if they're going to be semi-comfortable)  The
zero-to-sixty time is so low because the motor produces max torque at zero
rpm and then drops off as rpm increases.  So zero-to-thirty is abrupt but
the fun ends not long after as you wait for the motor to wind out and start
picking up again.  And since torque is somehting like 600ft/lb@0rpm at the
wheel, zero to thirty is (extremely) traction limited.  The l*mina in
question has a single-speed transmission.  Even though more gears would hurt
efficiency, Imagine what three more would do for 0-60 times, and top speed.
(68mph, redline limited)

The biggest problem with elecric cars is the battery weight.  600 pounds of
battery only gets you about 40 miles or so.  You can do that with 2 gallons
(maybe 8 pounds? I'm guessing) of gas in just about any conventional
vehicle.  But if you use an IC engine to run a generator and power a motor
you could stretch the mileage out to as much as 90-100 mpg.  If they develop
a compact device to convert gasoline or propane directly to electric energy
(some type of compact fuel cell) then efficiency and range will skyrocket.
Unfortunately there will probably still be a need for a few hundred pounds
of battery for accelerating.  Even so, the L*mina does help show the
potential that electric cars have.  And that they're not neccesarily less
efficient than conventional vehicles in terms of energy production, use and
delivery.  Allthough battery prices need to drop considerably before you see
two in every garage.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:22:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Supercharger

>.. Now this guy tells me on the phone I have to inclose my carborator in a
>BOX!  No way..
>
>If I understand it right on a blow through type turbo if you just
>pressurize the venturi area it throws all the carbs calibrated circuts off
>because of the pressure difference. When you enclose the carb in a box and
>pressurise the whole thing it works right without having to change
>anything. Also if the pressure is above ambient in the venturi the seals
>around the throtle shafts can leak fuel air mixture to the outside.

You could maybe look into a throttle body injection(TBI) fuel injection kit.
Like Holley Pro-Jection.  (I'm not endorsing it, it's just the only
aftermarket TBI I know of.)  It just mounts in place of the carb and has two
or four injectors on it, depending on how big you want it.  You might be
able to mount one of thoes air-cleaner looking covers over it and you
wouldn't have to worry about blowing venturi seals.  It's computer
controlled so you don't have to rely so much on vacuum like a carb.  I would
think you'd need a fuel pressure regulator from a turbocharged type car like
a Buick GN since you will be generating positive manifold pressure.  If the
TBI uses a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor  it will probably need
modification or relocation.  You could maybe mount it somewhere upstream of
the supercharger intake, like is done in a chrysler 2.2 turbo.  You migh
contact holley and see if they can help you with your application or ask
vortech or paxton if they have a kit for a TBI application.  The TBI starts
at around$550 for a 670cfm unit, and there are different sizes availible up
to a 1340cfm for about $1000.

>The draw through supercharger or turbo charger solves all these problems
>because the air isn't pressurised until after if goes through the carb.

The problem with draw through though is that it doesn't perform as well as
blow through. The farther gasoline has to travel in tubing, the more chance
it has to pool up.  Unless of course it's a straight shot like a tunnel ram.
Turbocharged cars didn't really work well untill fuel injection came along
and they didn't have to run the air/fuel mix though the turbo.  The FI also
made it easier to employ intercoolers.  They could be mounted after the
turbo to cool the air after it was compressed without worrying about pipeing
the fuel charge all over the place before it got to the cylinder.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: NjOlds@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:47:05 -0400
Subject: RIMS/TIRES

            Hello.  My name is Enio, I'm new to this group.  I have a 1987
Olds. Cutlass Sup. V-8,  307ci.  Can anyone tell me how big I can go on Rim &
Tire size without rubbing.
Please E-mail me at NjOlds@aol.com.

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:21:18 -0400
Subject: RIMS/TIRES

OL>Olds. Cutlass Sup. V-8,  307ci.  Can anyone tell me how big I can go on Rim
OL>Tire size without rubbing.

I rebuilt a wrecked '84 Cutlass a couple years ago. I put my 245/60/14
tires off of my '72 442. They fitted the front just fine butt were very
tight in the back. Either after market rims with different  offset or
spacers with longer and stronger studs but from experience I suggest
after market rims.

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 04:15:59 -0400
Subject: 442 in Missoula MT  and other babble...

This is mainly towards Dustin and Scott, but others nearby can take note
and follow the thread, too.  A friend (Powell...) was down there last week
and saw a 442 for sale.  He guessed a '72, but the body he described
sounded more like '67.  Anyway, he said it was really sweet, and he wished
that he had a camera with him to show me it.  It's in front of a church on
Reserve Street (?) if that helps out any.  Ya guys want to check it out?

Other news here...

Rebuilt a Qjet for the Rockit and got it in yesterday.  Much better!
Cleaned plugs today.  I'm still boasting a perfect record for the current
racing season (Ok, 2 for 2, but it's still 100%!) The GS is 1 for 1.  The
~quote~ hottest musclecar in town (yeah right!) made its debut appearance
a couple weeks ago.  A teal piece of Chiiiiiiivelle that used to sport a
496 or some oddball number like that under the hood.  As far as I know I'm
the only one who ever raced the car (I'm also the only one to ever kick
its a**) and the car was parked the next day.  (Heh heh...)  I guess he
sold the engine and put a used 350 in it...  And let his kid drive it as a
school car...  I saw it go by on a tow truck the other morning.  He
rearended someone, but it looked like he took out a big tree.  Dead center
in front.  I felt bad for the guy but I still kinda had to chuckle.
Couldn't have happened to a ~nicer~ guy :)  Poor kids probably getting
beat as bad as his car did!  :)

I spent part of the afternoon rewiring my roommate's dad's pickup.
Electrical fire.  Messy.  (Olds content, don't worry) It's a 68 (?) Ch*vy
2wd with --of course-- a 455 Rocket.  E heads.  Really low intake, so I'm
guessing it's Toro-sized.  Sure sounds nice.  Never thought you'd hear me
say that about a ~bowtie~ eh, Jason L.?  This Easter fix became a pressing
concern since their car got stolen this morning.  A Plymouth Horizon, of
all things!  The guy was drunk, and apparantly looking for a ride home
after a party.  Overall bad deal.  Two cars got stolen from that area of
town, about the same time, too.  One was recoverred that morning, trashed,
of course, but the other is still long gone.  This town has a bad theft
and vandalism problem (I've got a non-tinted window to prove that) but
usually they leave most of the car there.

I got a positive ID on the car responsible for my break-in, apparantly the
kid said he knew who broke my window.  My vow is to become this kid's
personal nightmare until I get a name from  him.

Better go, I'm supposed to be doing homework, but I'm having trouble
thinking.  Something to do with getting no sleep last night. (the car was
stolen just before 4:00 AM, (that's when they had to go to work) and I've
been up since then.  I's 1:00 AM now, and my backspace key is getting one
hell of a workout, so I'm going to sign off here for the night!

Later, all...

- --Charley Buehner

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:02:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Battery Volts

At 09:27 PM 3/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I have a question for the electrical gurus out there.
>
>I'm bringing my '64 out of winter hibernation. Even though the battery
>was out of it all winter, I checked it today before putting it back in
>the car and it shows only about 9 volts. Not good for a 12-volt battery.
>Do I have a dead cell or two, or is it just discharged? Any advice
>greatly appreciated...hope my DieHard hasn't died!
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
Greg,

You can tell as much about the battery's condition by the specific gravity
of the acid in the cells.  Give that a look, and if the gravity is OK, then
check voltage between the cells.

It is always best to keep the battery charged.  They make some trickle
chargers that basically provide a bear minimum of power, but keep the batter
up.  Batterys do not do well if they've been allowed to go to absolute
discharge.  Also, the principal reason batterys fail is that flecks of junk
come off the metal parts and eventually short across the plates.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:13:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Weight

At 04:01 PM 3/28/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> |                        |---- 20W,10W-30,10W-40,20W-40 ----->      |
>> |               |- 10W,5W-30,10W-30,10W-40-|                        |
>> | <---- 5W-20, 5W-30 ----|                                          |
>> |      |        |        |        |        |        |        |      |
>> |    -20        0       20       40       60       80       100     |
>
>This table, as Kurt has kindly provided, really shows how oil technology
>has changed in the past 26 years.  Today, 5W-30 is preferred for year
>round use, since it now resists breakdown far better than in 1971.
>According to a 1995 GM manual, 10W-40 and 20W-50 or any other grade aside
>from 5W-30 and 10W-30 are not recommended for use. =20
>
>Kevin Wong
>
>
>
Kevin,

I'm not so sure that it is all an improvment in oil technology, but would
rather give some thought as to engine technology too.

Also on this list, there is a great deal more play concerning the weight of
the oil, instead of the grade; and grade is where the real improvments are.
The improved additives (where the technological improvments on the oil side
actually lay) find their way into the higher grades.

If you have a modern engine, in excellent condition, and you don't live in
Death Valley where the ambient is always over 100=BA F, you have no business
using 50 weight oil, ever.  If you live where the ambient never gets above
30=BA F, then use multigrade the year round.

Someone has obfiscated the true picture about the proper weights to use, and
those that have posted to this thread to not realize the relationship
between the ambient temperature and oil weight.  Also, if you live in
Alaska, and those parts of Canada where they have heater plugs on the
parking meters, and if they keep their oil warm that has value in regard to
oil weight too.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:20:28 -0400
Subject: RE: Carb Question

At 01:05 AM 3/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:John Oder [SMTP:jaoder@navix.net]
>Sent:Saturday, March 29, 1997 10:53 PM
>To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject:Carb Question
>
>Being new to Old's Muscle cars I was wondering if they ever used Holley
>carbs on any of them?  Also did they have a power drum brake system on
>70's Cutlass's?
>
>John Oder
>70 Cutlass SX W-32
>
>[Aaron R. Weimer]
>Sure do bud.. I have a 750 Holley Double Pump W/ Mechanical Secondaries.
Love it and works very well.. 10 X better then those old quadrajunks.
>
>Aaron
>1972 4-4-2 W30
>Attachment Converted: C:\WINSOCK\EUD1\RECarbQu
>
If you mean from the factory, yes to the power drum brakes; never used a
Holley.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:37:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 400 Motors

Lisa,

I think your message got to me and no one else. It wasn't addressed to
the list for some reason, but rather to the list owner.

Anyway, I can't help you on the question of heads -- maybe the FAQ can do
that for you -- but the '67 and '68 400s are different engines entirely.
The '67 is considered better and apparently is fairly rare. The '68 is a
stroker motor that has a stroke considerably larger than the bore and
wasn't welcomed by the drag racers at the time it was introduced,
although I've driven in a '68 that seemed pretty stout, so I guess it
just depends on how well it's built. I think you will find the
bore/stroke dimensions in the FAQ as well.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:43:22 -0400
Subject: Re: How do I fix noisy lifters?

I've done this... tried all of the fixes that would cure a gummed-up
lifter, engine cleaners, Marvel Mystery Oil, you name it, with no luck.
So we bit the bullet and swapped lifters last year. You need to pull the
intake to get at them and so you need a new intake gasket and since the
valve covers need to come off you probably need new gaskets for them
also.

The job is time-consuming but not particularly difficult. While you're at
it you might want to change the rockers and pedestals since they have to
come off anyway and they aren't particularly expensive. In my case these
were the real source of the ticky noise. This part of the job is easier
than changing the lifters themselves, and if you do this first you don't
need to pull the intake. Knowing what I know now, I'd do the rockers &
pedestals first and see if that fixes the problem.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: STLPENS@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:58:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 61 STARFIRE

THAT WOULD BR GREAT I WOULD APPRECIATE IT

THANKS

------------------------------

From: STLPENS@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:19:05 -0400
Subject: TOYS

I AM LOOKING FOR MODELS OR MATCHBOX TYPE CARS THE ARE REPLICAS OF 61 88, 98,
STARFIRES.  I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ITEMS OR LEADS.
CORGI MAN FROM UNCLE CAR ETC.

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:22:00 -0400
Subject: Re: LA Junkyards

You wrote:

 Now for a question on rear anti-roll bars for my 70 Cutlass.  <SNIP>
 Any 68-72 Cutlass, 442, Hurst, or Chevelle, Buick GS, or GTO will work.
 They are
all the same for those years only.  However, you must have the boxed
lower control arms for these to work. <SNIP> Do NOT use your existing (open
bottom) lower control arms, for they would just be twisted up when you
install the bar and corner the first time.  The boxed ones (flat bottom due
to stiffening insert) MUST be used.

>>Granted, its best to use the boxed lower control arms, but in a pinch you
can just bolt the rear anti-roll bar to the open arms. Fabricate 4 pieces of
pipe or conduit (or even stacks of washers) to keep the arms from squishing
when the attaching bolts are tightened. And most importantly, NO, THEY WILL
NOT TWIST. I've run rear anti-roll bars with the open arms on a 69 and a 70
Cutlass with NO PROBLEMS for many years. Don't wait until you change the
control arms......enjoy the benefits of a rear anti-roll bar TODAY !!!! You
can always put the boxed arms on later.

*************************************************************
John Pajak     "DR. OLDS"
Lexington Park, MD
Pajak_John%PAX1@MR.NAWCAD.NAVY.MIL

65 Delta 88
66 Toronado
69 Cutlass S
70 Cutlass S W31
70 442 W30 convert
72 442 W30 convert
72 Delta 88 convert
+ others

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:51:06 -0400
Subject: RE: Rare Cars?

The Wiz Quizzes:

> I have some technolongical type questions:
>
> 1. Where does the electricity that powers electric cars come from?

Why, from the sulphur-emitting power plants that don't have to maintain
the clean air standards of a typical modern gas-powered automobile!  And it
has to use more fuel energy to generate that electricity than if the car
burned fuel directly (that loss due to transmission over power lines thingie).

<SMART-ALECK MODE ON>

> 2. Insurance rates are determined by a demographacally contrived conception
> of risk.  From existing statistics the risks are far greater in the lighter,
> and more fragile cars (read that as more fuel efficient); than in the two
> ton old barges that were once commonplace.  Do you really think the
> insurance companies are going to pat you on the back with lower rates
> because you drive a more fuel efficient, and hence more dangerous car?

Sure, because you are less likely to survive a serious accident (see below)
and "waste" more of their ill-gotten gains on medical bills, etc

> 2a. Which would you rather be in, in an front end collision with 40 tons of
> truck: 1. A CRX or 2. Any two ton Detroit sedan?

Why, the CRX of course.  If I get into a front end (read: head on) collision
with 80,000 lbs (or more) of truck, I want to die quickly & painlessly; the
two tons of Detroit steel'll only prolong my suffering.

<SMART-ALECK MODE OFF>
>
> 3. After some period of time all cars become collectible.  Don't you think
> you are confusing collectible with desirable?

I would call this a semantic point.  If a car is collectible, doesn't that
indicate a level of desireability?



Tim (I Wonder If Any of Those 'Heaven's Gate' Folks Have Olds We Could
     Pick Up Cheap At Auction?) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Slowmobile@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:22:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Weight

It is worth noting in the oils discussion that the Mfr's recommendation is at
least partly effected by federal fuel economy regs.  Believe it or not, the
use of 5W-30
vs other options can make a crucial .1 mpg or so difference in the Federal
 (US)
fuel economy and with the cost of missing the federal mandates reaching
millions
of dollars per year, every trick in the book is fair.  This is at least some
of the rationale for the 5W-30 recommendation, along with the others
mentioned such as
improvements in oils, additives, etc.

------------------------------

From: "JOHN L. BERENYI" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:03:35 -0400
Subject: 1967 Cutlass Sold!!!

The Cutlass sold this weekend.  Thanks to all that responded.



John Berenyi

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:17:00 -0400
Subject: Re: rear size

T.H.- the 85 Olds will have the same 7.5" rear as you old 81. Unless you
have a 442 or a Grand national, the rears in all GM G bodies are 7.5/7.626".
This includes the Monte SS (someone thought they had the 8.5" too. They do
not)





=============================================================================
FRank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:24:57 -0400
Subject: Pace car spotted

Last night I saw one of the Aurora pace cars setting along the street in
Terre Haute.  That 4 door did not look right with the pace car graphics.
For years and years they have used two door cars to pace the race and I
think it should be a requirement.  Will Olds have a special two door car
for the actual pace car?

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:00:42 -0400
Subject: Misc comments and feedback

BTW, this weeks mail has been particulalarly cool, so I'd like to say/ask
a few things:

As per electric cars, don't trains use a diesel over electric system to
power them (heard that, no idea if true, don't laugh if I'm wrong!)

Also, with all this talk of engines running at peak effiency, etc., whatever
happened to
that CVT someone tried in a car (resembled ski-doo clutch, but in a car)

50W oil -> You do have bussiness using this oil in older, worn out motors
you can't afford to fix (Or in bikes, though the gears in a bike
transmission can really 'chop-up' the multiweights, requiring 800KM oil
changes)

Weight of gas -> someone guessed that 2 gallons of gas might weigh 8
pounds, while water is approx 10 pounds/gallon (I think) and gas weighs
less, I doubt it's 4lbs/gallon, does anyone know the actual number?

Olds content -> I'm not a huge performance freak, but when I get my '75
455 (stock) into my '75 cutlass, I'm sure I'll want to test it out, can
anyone tell me what I might do against a early '80's 5 leeter m***ang
(I'm not concerned overly either way, but enquiring minds DO want to know).



Just my 5 cents on the thoughts of the day (Join the revolution to
eliminate the penny, I mean a nickel's not even worth that much, let
alone a penny.)

EA~

(thanx also to everyone who makes this list so interesting, gotta say it
at least once)

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.feith.com (Peter L. House)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:19:22 -0400
Subject: Re: RIMS/TIRES

>
>             Hello.  My name is Enio, I'm new to this group.  I have a 1987
> Olds. Cutlass Sup. V-8,  307ci.  Can anyone tell me how big I can go on Rim
& > Tire size without rubbing. > Please E-mail me at NjOlds@aol.com. > > The
factory option was the 15 x 7 215 65 R15. I had the American Racing Outlaw II
on the Cutlass and it would rub the upper fender on the outside, I think that
the offset was wrong for that rim, but the factory Ralley wheels won't rub
because they have the right offset.

Peter L. House
87 Salon
phouse@feith.com

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:27:09 -0400
Subject: F-body knuckle swap into A-body; handling improvements

Swaping 70-79 F-body steering knuckles into 64-72 A-body for
handling improvements.

After seeing posts referring to this handling improvment, I did
some research to see what I could find out about it.  HO Racing
originaly did the swap, but they don't appear to be in business
anymore, can anyone verify this?  also,  if you've don't the
swap, let me know if what I have here jives with what you know.

A number of different steering knuckles can be installed into
64-72 GM A-bodies that can improve the car's handling by changing
it's steering geometry.  The stock steering geometry of these
cars creates a roll center below the ground level, which is not
as favorable as a roll center that is above ground. In 1987 or so,
HO Racing Specialties did this sway on a 64 GTO, with some seriously
heavy duty springs, sway bars, Goodyear Eagles 255/50VR-16S's, and of
course, the knuckle sway, they turned .94g on the skid pad. Hot Rod
Magazine wrote all this up in their June 1987 issue. Unfortunately,
HO doesn't seem to be in business anymore, at the time of the
publication of the article, HO was located at 4708J W. Compton Blvd,
Lawndale, CA, 90260 and at (213, which is now 312) 973-7078.  The
fellow at HO Racing was Dean Dodge, so maybe you can track down
further info if you can find him.

What parts are required for the swap?  Besides the knuckles and
the rotors and calipers, you'll need different upper and lower
ball joints.  The 64-72 A-bodies and the 70-79 F-bodies had different
tapers on their ball joint to knuckle mating shafts.  As of writing
this, I must say that I'm not sure if a 70-79 F-body ball joints
will fit 64-72 A-body upper and lower control arm ball joint sockets.
This is a problem, HO Racing supplied the ball joints.   The ball
joints do have different tapers, so using the 64-72 ball joints
with 70-79 knuckles is not a good idea for street or competition.
The other parts required are the tie rod ends, which, like the ball
joints, appear to have been offered only through HO Racing.  It
appears the F-body knuckles positioned the tie rod closer together
than the 64-72.  If this is the case, perhaps tie rod ends and the
A-body inter-tie rod ends can be adapted. Don't forget to add a disk
brake master cylinder and proportioning valve if you are converting
from single reservior front drum brakes.  Your best bet is to get
the entire brake system off of one car.

1970-79 F-body (Camaro/Firebird), 1975-79 X-body (Nova), and
*some* 77-79 full size GM's that come with the 5x4&3/4" lug
pattern wheels and 11" disks are the knuckles to get.  In 79,
the outer wheel bearing was changed, if you are working with
a 79 knuckle be sure to use the same year rotor/hub ( don't use
78 rotors with 79 knuckles... you can't even if you tried!).
By the way, GM didn't change the suspnesion geometry in 1980,
but they did go metric, so you'll have a difficult getting your
tie rod ends to thread (impossible..).    The best years for
these knuckles is 77-78, these knuckles were the lightest and
the strongest.

What is roll center and how does changing it make an A-body handle
better?  This is tough to answer without drawings, but I'll try.
Roll Center is the point around which the body of a car is rotating
when cornering.  The rear suspension has its own roll center
and the front suspension has its own roll center.  a line drawn
between these two points determines the roll axis.  With double
A-arm front suspensions, like the A and F bodied GMs, a roll center
above ground will provide better handling.  Not only does the roll
center determine the rotational axis of the body, it is also the
point at which the car's sprung weight is transferred to to the
outside unsprung weight in a turn.  Having the roll center above
ground isn't just an GM A-body avantage, its an avantage (and
a requirement) for any high performance handling vehicle.

To find the roll center, take one side of the front suspension,
draw two lines: one line should intersect the upper control arm's
ball joint and the upper control arm's inboard rotational shaft
center. The second line should intersect the same points on the lower
control arm.  You have just drawn lines describing the angles of
the control arms.  On a stock 64-72 A-body, these lines will intersect
on the outside of the car (the upper control arm points down and
the lower control arm's angle is more or less horizontal).  Now
draw a line from the point determined by the centerline of the tire
and the ground (the center of where the tire touches the ground),
continue this line to the point of the intersection of your two control
arm lines  (this is called the intantaneous center).  Continue
this same line so it intersects the  centerline of the automobile
(this "Same line" should intersect the instantaneous center point,
the center of the tire patch, and the centerline of the vehicle.
Where this line intersects the centerline of the vehicle is the
Roll Center!   A-bodies have a roll center below ground level
(bad).  The F-body knuckle is  1&1/4" taller than the A-bodies,
so the angle of the upper control arm is changed (now it points
upward, and the Roll center is moved above ground.

What other mods did HO Racing Specialties do to make a 64 GTO turn
a .94g on a skid pad?  HO supplied its own HD springs.  The
front springs carried a Wheel Rating of 480 lbs per inch
travel (as apposed to the stock rate of about 300 lbs), and
the rears were rated at a Wheel Rate of 156 lbs per inch travel
(stocks were 110-115 lbs).  They used their own anti-sway bars,
1 3/8" diameter front and rear.   HO used the same diameter
anti-sway bars claiming that the front bar's level arm is
is longer and most resistant to roll.  However this goes
against everything I've ever read about sway bar technology.
Then again, I didn't make an A-body turn a .94g!   Perhpas
the translation of why the front and rear bars are the
same diameter got lost in the article (or maybe I misunderstood
it).   Polyurethane bushings and Koni shocks rounded out the
package.

A side note about GM A-bdy spring interchangability. Marlan
Davis was so gracious as to describe the differences and
interchangability of the front and rear spings on A-bodies.
64-67 front springs have a different cup diameter that
than of the 68-72's.  64-66 rear's are "pigtailed" (turned
inward toward the spring's cup center) only on one end,
whereas the 67-72's are pigtailed on both ends.

Sources:
Hot Rod Magazine, Marlan Davis, "Knuckle Sandwich" June 1987.
How To Make Your Car Handle,  Fred Puhn, HP Books, 1981.


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª585
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