oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca 
02/10/97 05:01 PM
To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #510


oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 10 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 510

HEI rebuild
Re: oldsmobile parts
Re: HEI rebuild
RE: 1/4 Mile et question
Lansing-Car Ferry
Re: Olds 442
Re: Mid Engines
Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Headers, just say no!
Re: Quadrajet II : addle info
Re: Mid Engines
Re: Switch to Discks?
Re: Headers, just say no!
Re: Headers, just say no!
Re: Headers, just say no!
Re: New BF Goodrich tires
[NC]Re: Tin shacks and car projects
Re: The band "Chicago" is a 442 killer
Re: Headers, just say no!
455 HP
Re: Bill Porterfield's Work
Chicago Auto Show? Tonight? Tomorrow?
Re: The blower saga continues....
Olds lover unite!
Re: A Few Q's
Thoes wacky automatics...was Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Olds lover unite!
Re: Re[3]: Auto Tranny question
The Meaning of 442
RE: New member + TCS solenoid
Re: A Few Q's
Re: 455 HP
Re: Switch to Discks?
1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions
Changing E-mail Address
Re: Thoes wacky automatics...was Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Re[3]: Auto Tranny question
Re: Olds lovers unite!
Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Speaking of new BFG drag radials
Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions
Re: yet another muff question
Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions
Highway RPM
Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions
Re[2]: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 03:02:54 -0400
Subject: HEI rebuild


Can someone tell me how much I should pay for a rebuildable HEI core?
There are five or six small block HEI's at my local junkyard that I could
rebuild for my 455.  Also, how much time & money would go into rebuliding &
recurving one?  My original points distributor needs work, so I figured I'd
invest in an HEI.

Thanks,

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:46:20 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile parts

JC-Whitney sells "soft seal" weather stripping at the lowest prices I've
found.  If you're in a hurry for them, you'll pay the price somewhere
else.

shoe-man

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:11:31 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI rebuild

At 03:02 AM 2/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Can someone tell me how much I should pay for a rebuildable HEI core?
>There are five or six small block HEI's at my local junkyard that I could
>rebuild for my 455.  Also, how much time & money would go into rebuliding &
>recurving one?  My original points distributor needs work, so I figured I'd
>invest in an HEI.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul Rousseau
>*1967 442
>
>
Around here they usually ask $25 - $35. for a core, if that's all you're
buying.  Group deals usually work out better for you, on a price per piece
basis.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:01:00 -0400
Subject: RE: 1/4 Mile et question

Ken
rottin@coil.com  wrote:

If a car ran a best of 13.09@112 in the 1/4 with tons of wheel spin off
the line and sideways into second gear what would it run if it were to
hook up?  I have heard that MPH gives an indication of this. The car
would be a 68 Cutlass S (Gutless as my friends liked to call it) w/beefy
455, th400, 3.23 posi rear, BF Goodrich T/A 60 tires.  It was my high
school ride, was too broke to afford slicks or a real gear ratio.  Is
there any way to figure approx horsepower numbers from the above
combination?

>>>>>Based on what I have seen, you could have run high 11s or low 12s with
112 >>>>>MPH trap speed !!!!!

John Pajak  DR OLDS

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:50:21 -0400
Subject: Lansing-Car Ferry

To all who had interest in the taking the Car Ferry across Lake Michigan to
Lansing:

I recieved the brochure from the S.S. Badger this weekend. Turns out they have
a web page:

http://www.ssbadger.com

After reading it, I have concluded that this may not be the most effecient way
to travel to Lansing. Fun and interesting yes, economical and fast, no.

So, with that in mind, I am re-thinking my travel plans. I wouldn't mind
hooking up with a caravan coming from the West or Southwest somewhere in
Illinois or Indiana. I am still trying to avoid going through Chicago, but if
all else fails, I can time my departure and scoot through there in the wee
hours without any problems as I have done so many times before when I did the
Indy 500.

Besides, I'd rather DRIVE my car than have it in the hold of a boat or on the
bottom of the lake. Besides, I understand, that you can't park your own car
in the Ferry yourself either. Some high school car jockey will take your keys
(probably with one very big smile) as you watch it disapear into the bowels
of the hull. Once parked, you CANNOT access your car until you arrive to
Ludington. I'm not liking that.  ):

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:10:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 442

Hey there Vman!
          There's a book called DATA BOOK & PRICE GUIDE 4-4-2 1964-1986
compiled by R. Perry Zavitz. Library of Congress #ISBN 0-934780-75-7 It was
printed in 1985 and seems to be pretty authentic for the most part.
                                                  Ron Forsee  65 442-meister

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Mid Engines

Joe Padavano reports:

>      And while we're talking about mid-engined cars using Toro
>      drivetrains, my all-time favorite is from an ancient issue of
>      Petersen Publishing's Big Book of Engine Swapping (from ~1974).
>      A Porsche mechanic had taken a 912 (basically a 911 with a 4-cyl
>      (wait for it) HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED engine) and dropped in a Toro
>      drive unit (unfortunately with a mere 425 cu in).

<Details of the swap and the benefits snipped>

>     And, of course, you have to keep
>      the 912 emblems, 'cause it's only a little 4-cyl...


My first year outta college, way-y-y back in '82, my crazy aunt married
her third in a continuing series of husbands.  He had a nice original 912,
maybe around a '68 or so.  At one point, he talked about giving me the car.
I thought it OK, but nothing to salivate over; after all, it only had that,
err, 180 deg. V-4 :)  And, they got divorced w/o the Porsche ending up in my
driveway.

But had I known about a Toro drivetrain swap, maybe I would've been a bit more
agressive about it...

Also, here at Draper Lab, someone was advertising a '68 912 in the company
newsletter for not a lot of money... things that make you go "Hmmm" :)

Naw, it's probably a bad idea. I might as well bring home a blonde, as I'd
get the same reaction :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:34:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

Ouch, Charley... unfortunately, I've been in that situation too.  Coupla
times. And they always seemed to try to get away, too.

Glad that you and yer buddy weren't hurt, that's the most important thing.
Keep us posted on the repairs!

Why am I not surprised she did this in a Fiero?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:42:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>      Sorry to hear it happen you you, Charlie.  I'm sure the rockit will be
>      back to life soon though, with your skills.  I know how you feel,
>      since the same thing just happened to me.

	<snip>
>
>      Tom Lentz
>      tlentz@teknon.com
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ > Subject: Ouch goes the Rockit  :( >
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET > Date:    2/8/97 2:49 AM > >
Well, it was bound to happen, and tonight it finally did.  While >
cruising

Tom,

You and Charlie are lucky to be unhurt.  We are glad tehat the olds' are
salvageagle.  Good luck on the parts search.  I know little about these
cars & am too far away to be of much help.  We'll be thinking of you
both.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: David Wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:14:36 -0400
Subject: Headers, just say no!

Well I did it.  I finally got around to installing the new headers I
purchased last fall.  I will now swear an oath (I've already sworn at
the headers) with all of you folks as my witness.  I Dave Wyatt, will
NEVER install another set of headers on my 4-4-2.  I installed a set of
Dynomax headers that have been Jet-Hot coated.  They look real nice and
fit so-so.  The drivers side appeared to have the same bends as the old
Caslers I replaced.  There were some differences.  The tubes came out
from the flange on the head a little further wich gave me some needed
room for installing the bolts.  Now the tubes almost touch the steering
shaft.  The rear tube that goes over the top of the clutch equalizer
shaft did not clear.  I could hook everthing up, but the shaft was hard
to move when I tightened the headers.  I had to remove them and massage
that one tube.  Since the tubes came out from the head further, I lost
some clearance next to the starter.  Not a lot, just about 1/4 inch
closer, making the starter a little tight to install with the clutch
spring in place.  The passenger side had a different tube layout then
the old set.  One of the middle tubes runs straight back, blocking the
direct access to the two rear bolts.  No more socket for these two, only
wrench.  The passenger side is also a little closer to the chassis.  I
may or may not have better access to the oil filter.  I did not try it
out since I left the filter attached to the mount.  I was able to
re-install the oil filter mount to the block easier due to better bolt
access.  Now I am ready to go to the muffler shop for the new pipes.  I
will be installing 2.25 inch so I can (hopefully) use my exhaust tips.
I am getting to old (no patience) and too fat to be installing headers
on a street car.  The next time will be manifold time.  And any of you
youngsters out there who may want to run headers, go ahead and go for
it.  Everyone should experience this at least once in life.  This was my
sixth vehicle with headers.

Dave (slow learner) Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:39:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Quadrajet II : addle info

 Edlebrock also sells most of the the high performance parts needed for the
Q-jet, they have metering rods, secondary rod hangers, secondary rods, high
flow inlets, primary jets and metering rods and they also have an adjustable
vacuum dashpot for the secndary air valve.
  Just from my own experience the Q-jet primary jets also fit in the
Rochester 2gc carbureters also - so if you guys have any middle to late
''70's cars with the 2bble carbureter you can tune out that surging you might
feel on the freway by richining it up a notch or two

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:48:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mid Engines

At 09:26 AM 2/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Also, here at Draper Lab, someone was advertising a '68 912 in the company
>newsletter for not a lot of money... things that make you go "Hmmm" :)

Hmm, doing the swap on a car that size wouldn't consist of swapping the
motor into the Porsche, as much as it would be bolting a Porsche to the
front of the Toro's engine!

Here's an idea, however: park the 912 in a vacant parking lot, get a '72
Toro up to speed, ram into the back of the Porsche, cut the Toro off just in
front of the firewall and _voila_! Painless, instant engine-swap (as long as
you're not sitting in the Porsche! :)

>Naw, it's probably a bad idea. I might as well bring home a blonde, as I'd
>get the same reaction :)

ROTFLMOL! If it weren't for that little fact of life, my new house would
consist of a small tin shack on an acre of land covered with non-running
"project" cars... :)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch to Discks?

>The car is a '68 4-4-2 conv, it has manual drum brakes all around....Is it
>practical to convert the front end to disks without adding the booster?

>     This was the factory setup on W-30s and W-31s.  The cam didn't provide
>     enough vacuum for the power booster.

FWIW, My 69 W-31 came from the factory with manual front drums.  Not sure if
you meant the factory setup on W-30 and W-31 cars was manual drums or manual
discs, so I thought I would add my 2 cents.  Not sure if manual discs was an
option on 69 W-31's, I think it was standard on 70's though.
I plan on keeping my manual drums on my car, since I'm concerned with keeping
it original.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris_r._smetana@dadc.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertable
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:08:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers, just say no!

David Wyatt wrote:

	<snip>

> I am getting to old (no patience) and too fat to be installing headers
> on a street car.  The next time will be manifold time.  And any of you
> youngsters out there who may want to run headers, go ahead and go for
> it.  Everyone should experience this at least once in life.  This was my
> sixth vehicle with headers.
>
> Dave (slow learner) Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2

It only took one for me - but then I lived with it for 10 years.  I
don't know if that is better or not.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:26:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers, just say no!

In a message dated 97-02-10 09:56:15 EST, you write:

<< And any of you
 youngsters out there who may want to run headers, go ahead and go for
 it.  Everyone should experience this at least once in life.  This was my
 sixth vehicle with headers.

 Dave (slow learner) Wyatt
 70  4-4-2 >>

I just bought a pair for my 70 350 Cutlass.  My stomach is knotting up
already!

Paul (youngster) Pate
70 Cutlass S

------------------------------

From: Harry Mulligan <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:27:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers, just say no!

And any of you
youngsters out there who may want to run headers, go ahead and go for
it.  Everyone should experience this at least once in life.  This was my
sixth vehicle with headers.

Ohhh come on1 It can't be that bad! i think someone may be exagerating just
a bit....after all it's only a matter of 10-12 bolts and a little patience!
right?

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:33:34 -0400
Subject: Re: New BF Goodrich tires

Steve wrote:

>       Is anyone using the new BF Goodrich radial racing tires. I would like
> to try some if they stick as good as they say they will. I have comp T/A now
> and thes will not stick at all. My short times are 2.2 for the most part and

Well I just put 4 new Radial T/A's on my car with SSII rims.  When I had
narrower
tires, they would chirp easily when I hit the gas from a dead stop.  The
new tires
barely chirp and grip real well.  On the way to work today I took a 30
mph off
ramp turn at 55 mph and the car hugged just nicely.  I was hoping not to
hit any
wet spots (weeeeeeeeeee).  Anyway I have 245-60-R14's and I am happy
with them.

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: qwik@ticipa.Works.ti.com (Jack Wendel MSGID QWIK)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:51:21 -0400
Subject: [NC]Re: Tin shacks and car projects

>ROTFLMOL! If it weren't for that little fact of life, my new house would
>consist of a small tin shack on an acre of land covered with non-running
>"project" cars... :)

You been lookin at my house again?!? :-)

L8R,

Jack (No SO to keep me under control!) Wendel

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:15:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The band "Chicago" is a 442 killer

Ed writes:

>Scott, If that's the way to drive a 4-4-2, then it might interest you to know
>that, there is one less 4-4-2 in the world, thanks to Chicago's destructive
>commercialism!   Ed   Escape442@aol.com

Ed,
I'd wager that the only car they ruined was a clapped out Cutlass for
the final jump scene.  If you pause the tape during the scene where the
woman is driving down the concrete river bed, you can see that the dash
of the car is gutted.  I'm sure, like Demolition Man, that there was a
nice close-up car and a sacrificial car.

I've reduced several sets of Eagles to tears with aggressive driving in
my 442.  Guess what?  It's still in existence and is stronger/ more
durable now than it was when I got it!  If you maintain it/restify it
well, you CAN drive it like you hate it.  Besides, I'd rather see one go
out in a blaze of glory than go silently into the crusher.

Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:02:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers, just say no!

At 10:27 AM 2/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>And any of you
>>youngsters out there who may want to run headers, go ahead and go for
>>it.  Everyone should experience this at least once in life.  This was my
>>sixth vehicle with headers.
>
>Ohhh come on1 It can't be that bad! i think someone may be exagerating just
>a bit....after all it's only a matter of 10-12 bolts and a little patience!
>right?

Well, it is only ten bolts (well, 16 total if you add in the three for each
collector); the problem isn't only the initial installation (though, of
course, that *always* is a problem), but the perpetual re-installation
required by bolts loosening up, having to almost remove the headers to get
at the starter or the oil-filter, and the reduced ground-clearance.

I ran a set of Blackjack headers on my 455-powered SX. They sat about
two-to-three inches lower than the stock exhaust, and with the weak shocks I
had on there (yeah, I put on headers before I put on decent shocks; I was
16, what else would I do?) they scraped going over every small bump. One
time I took a ride down to visit a friend in Greenwich Village in NYC for
the heck of it, and we went downtown on the freeway along the Hudson, back
when it was _under_construction. I mean UNDER construction, as there were
heaves, bumps, potholes, curves, etc. etc. that I thought would *rip* the
exhaust off more than once!

Being young, I didn't know a thing about wisely investing the little money I
had, or proper priorities for modifying a car. I hope that by now I've
learned something...

Besides that, and the fact that they contacted the brake junction-block on
the frame, and I had to unbolt the oil-filter adapter every time I wanted to
change the filter, and they rusted pretty severely despite my coating them
with VHT high-temp orange paint, and they needed to be tightened weekly, and
one of the bolts wouldn't go in no matter what I did, they were generally a
pain in the neck. I've still got the pair sitting in my basement, dented and
rusting; I would only run them again in an absolute emergency.

I would love to have a set of nice-fitting, mellow-sounding headers on my SX
when I put it back together, but I'm not going to sacrifice ground-clearance
or serviceability for a 20-hp gain (if it gains anything at all with a .500"
lift cam).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:14:54 -0400
Subject: 455 HP

I just went to the Bowling's WEB site and pluged in the information to
determine the HP for a 70 455 365 HP. I have always wanted to know if the HP
rateing is correct for this engine. Using the rough HP calculator here is the
results:

Bowling's Rough Horsepower
Calculator

Computation Results:

  Engine Displacement (CID) is 455
  Mean Compression ratio is 10.5
  Engine Revolutions Per Minute is 5000

Computation Results:

  Computed Engine HP is 435


Anyone else have any ideals?

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the......Past)

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:09:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Porterfield's Work

Joe Padavano said:

>  Between the Kelmark and the mid-engined 442, Porterfield also
>  built a Toro-powered mid-engined T-bucket.  Do you detect a
>  trend?

******

I believe that Bill Poterfield was also the engineer in charge of the
AeroTech project, which means that he was still working for the
factory as late as 1987.  It also means that he didn't just work
with doing wild projects using Toronado pieces.  I guess that I last
saw him in November of that year, at Indianapolis Motor Speedway when
they were running the two versions of AeroTech there.

          ---
 ------- | | | - Tom Stoner -----------------------
|        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ---    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
 --------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:09:11 -0400
Subject: Chicago Auto Show? Tonight? Tomorrow?

I know this is getting down to the wire but I'm still trying to
figure out who all is going on which night. Would like to meet
as many list members as possible. Is there a consensus yet on
who's going when?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:07:03 -0400
Subject: Re: The blower saga continues....

>Yet another blower problem maybe someone can help us with. We recently
>just lost all blower speeds except high on our '71 Cutlass Supreme. I
>think all these problems we've been having recently ultimately points to
>a tired blower motor drawing too many amps.

I don't think so. Second/third speed (whichever one is just below High)
is pretty high-voltage itself, so the blower should be able to keep
going at that setting if you start it off at High.

>We've checked all
>connections for melted wires and the resistor is good. Any ideas where
>the problem may lie?

I'd check the supply fuse in the fusebox and the large plug under the
hood where it attaches to the resistor pack in the ductwork. The plug
in particular can get water in it and rot out, although if you're good
with fiddly bits you can release the connectors from the plastic housing
of the plug and clean them up again. Most likely you have some rotted
connections rather than a bad blower motor...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:41:29 -0400
Subject: Olds lover unite!

My Classic Car Video Magazine on-line has a contest for your favorite
classic car.  This week one of the pairings is between the evil bowtie
and the loveable Oldsmobile.  Please stop by the website and vote for
the Rocket before it gets strangled by a bowtie.
Go to: www.myclassiccar.com/funstuff/matchup11/html


Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:16:47 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's

The Wiz points out:

> Oil, oil filter, and air filter change intervals have a great deal more to
> do with the condition of the inside of the engine than oil brand has (and
> read this as BRAND not GRADE).  With 'major refinery brands' all the brite
> stock and additives are pretty much the same (for the same grade).

I definitely agree with Wiz on this one... performing 3K LOFs (as my ol' boss
when I worked in a garage through college called 'em -- LOF ==
Lube-Oil-Filter) is the best single thing you can do for the longevity of your
car's engine.

And as far as synthetic oils are concerned:

It is my understanding that their big selling point is that they don't break
down as easily as organic motor oil, so one can use the oil in the car longer.
But it is also my understanding that the synthetics still retain the
impurities that an automotive engine's oil will pick up over time -- gasoline,
moisture, dust, etc -- that are corrosive to the bearings, etc.; and in fact
it's these impurities that determine the lifespan of an engine more than oil
breakdown.

So running a car with the same oil for 12K miles, as I believe the synthetic
oil manufacturers recommend, just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Thoughts?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:30:27 -0400
Subject: Thoes wacky automatics...was Re: Auto Tranny question

> 'S' did stand for Super, and this terminology was used at least since
> 1952. My 1952 Oldsmobile sales brochure has a discussion of Drive and
> Super, like it was a new feature for 1952. Back then it was the four
> speed Hydramatic, which went up to 1963-64 or so. This was replaced
> by the Turbo-Hydramatic, a three speed with torque converter.
>
	According to my shop manual,from somtime before 1954 and until
'55 you got what they
call a "Dual Range Hydramatic" I'm not really too sure just what it was
but it sounds like maybe it was a two speed auto.  In 1956, the Dual
Coupling Four Speed Hydramatic was introduced, and was available until
1960.  During this time it was produced in two different versions--one
made from 1956 to 1959, the second had a run from '59 through 1960,
although the differences look minimal.  The latter is what my '60 98 is
equiped with.  In 1961, the book lists a "Three Speed Hydramatic" being
introduced, with a scaled down version used in the early F-85.  I'm pretty
sure it's unrelated to the TH-350, and I think it was used until 1963 or
'64, whenever the slim jim was introduced.
	

> The four speed Hydramatic was considerably different from more modern
> automatics... it had NO torque converter! I had two fluid couplings
> (from mid-1950s on), one of which was used for shifting purposed.
> It filled and drained to effect one of the shifts, along with
> regular plate clutches for other shifts. The shift involving the fluid
> coupling was very soft and slow.

	Interesting.  I knew that it was called a dual-coupling, and the
cutaway pictures in the shop manual clearly show the two fluid couplings,
but I always assumed that they served the same purpose as a tradational
torque converter (they look like one in the pics).  That, and the forward
coupling is a donut shaped unit that sits in the bellhousing and bolts to
the flexplate just like a regular torque converter does.  Weird.
		
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:37:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds lover unite!

> My Classic Car Video Magazine on-line has a contest for your favorite
> classic car.  This week one of the pairings is between the evil bowtie
> and the loveable Oldsmobile.  Please stop by the website and vote for
> the Rocket before it gets strangled by a bowtie.
> Go to: www.myclassiccar.com/funstuff/matchup11/html
>
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2


Make that:

http://www.myclassiccar.com/funstuff/matchup11.html

- --
Drew

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:36:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Auto Tranny question

> BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
> left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
> right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".
>
>
>      I guess if you're using the "LSD" side, you probably don't care about
>      whether or not you have "super performance" ;)
>

	Ha!  I've been waiting ever since this thread started for someone
to make a clever wisecrack about that.  Looks like you beat me too it :)
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:37:15 -0400
Subject: The Meaning of 442

Jar Lyons said:

> My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
> to mean anything from ...
>    400 cu in
>    4 spd
>    2 (dual exhaust)
> to ...
>    455 cu in
>    4 barrel
>    2 (dual exhaust)
> depending on the year.
>
> Is this close to accurate?

*****
In 1964, which was the first year of production for the 442 option,
the engine was only 330 cubic inches.  I believe that some of the
advertising that first year said that the designation stood for

   4 - 4 barrel carb
   4 - 4 speed transmission
   2 - dual exhaust

1965 saw the introduction of the 400 cubic inch engine, and I believe
the advertising for that year switched to saying that the first "4"
stood for the new engine's displacement.  Since 3 speed automatic
transmissions also became an available option on a 442 at about this
same time, this "numerology" became somewhat non-descriptive of the
cars being produced, and I don't believe that any further reference
to a meaning of "442" was made in sales literature after 1965 or
1966.

          ---
 ------- | | | - Tom Stoner -----------------------
|        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ---    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
 --------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:50:55 -0400
Subject: RE: New member + TCS solenoid

Here is the information on the TCS solenoid. I am replaceing mine also. They
are very hard to find. I have found one from a member of this list. I also
have a email from a dealer that has the solenoid also. If I get the one from
the list member I will send you the information from the dealer.

The TCS solenoid controls the vacuum to the distributor. When the tranmission
is in drive, the TCS solenoid is energized in first and second ( no vacuum to
dist.) It is not-energized when the tranmission is in third (vacuum to the
dist.). The control circuit includes a 150 ohn 5 watt (located at the
connector on the TCS solenoid) a TCS switch in the transmission and a pressure
switch also located in the transmission.

Here is a way to test the solenoid from the service manual.


1. Disconnect hoses and electrical connector.

2. Connect a hose to the distributor vacuum port on the solenoid and blow into
it. (This is the port that points up and goes to the dist.).

3. Air should come out the vacuum port that was connected to the carb. ( This
is the port on the same side as the electric connector and goes to vacuum port
on the carb)

4. Plugging this port should shut off air through the solenoid.

5. Connect a jumper from one terminal to ground. Connect the other terminal to
12 volts.

6. Air should now come out the vent port. Plugging the vent port should shut
off air through the solenoid. (This is the port that comes stright out on the
same side as the dist. vacuum port and goes to the vent port.)

To Vacuum port on carb.
           |
           |   12 volts connect to this side.
       ----|-||-
       |       |
       |       |
       |       |
       ----|----
To dist----|
vacuum     |
           |
       Vent Port

Hope this helps

Bobby

70 442 (Esacpe Back to the.....Past)

______________________________________________________________________________
_

>does anyone know where I can find a Transmission
>Controlled Spark (TCS) solenoid?  Didn't see one in Year One, Brothers, or
>Super Cars catalogs.

>I ~don't~ have one of these solenoids, but I would like to know what it
>does.  Can someone please explain its purpose and function?

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:27:31 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's

>So running a car with the same oil for 12K miles, as I believe the synthetic
>oil manufacturers recommend, just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

12K? Definitely not, unless the car in question was running endlessly
on a test bed or something. Even 12K of highway miles is a bit much.
I change my cars at (wait for it...) 1,500-mile intervals (gasp! :-)
which at our levels of usage works out to 2-3 months apart for both
cars. So I guess you could say we're doing it by recommended time
intervals instead of mileage... whatever... The sight of an '86 Aries
K wagon that purrs smoothly at 108K is getting to be a conversation
piece these days. (I use Valvoline, for the record.)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:30:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 HP

At 10:14 AM 2/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I just went to the Bowling's WEB site and pluged in the information to
>determine the HP for a 70 455 365 HP. I have always wanted to know if the HP
>rateing is correct for this engine. Using the rough HP calculator here is the
>results:
>
>Bowling's Rough Horsepower
>Calculator
>
>Computation Results:
>
>  Engine Displacement (CID) is 455
>  Mean Compression ratio is 10.5
>  Engine Revolutions Per Minute is 5000
>
>Computation Results:
>
>  Computed Engine HP is 435

Hmmm, I don't doubt at all that a stock 365hp 455 creates that much hp; I
also think that the friction from the internals of the engine, the
resistance of the oil pump, the engine accessories and the transmission eat
up at least 100 of those ponies before you get anything from the driveshaft.

That 435 hp result must be based on assumptions made about the engine, which
may or may not hold true for the 365hp motor (i.e. Volumetric efficiency,
friction losses, actual compression ratio [as opposed to rated], spark
timing, etc.). Since a given unit of gasoline has a specific amount of
energy, you can come up with a formula that, based on an assumed efficiency
of an engine, gives an estimate of power output based on that energy
content. Since one of the big variables for engine efficiency is the
compression ratio, Bowling's formula takes that variable out of the presumed
or estimated area and makes it a known; if it took more variables, it would
be more accurate.

>Anyone else have any ideals?

Well, I believe world-peace and a living wage are worthy ideals...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:28:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch to Discks?

FWIW, I am using the '70 W-30 stick cam in my car with power disc
brakes.  If I set the idle below 1000 rpm, I have trouble with the
vacuum for the brakes.  I keep it above 1000 and do not have any
trouble.  I am also running a Holley Street Dominator single plane
intake which does not promate a good vacuum signal at low rpm.  The big
question I would ask myself is, am I really going to push the car hard
enough to need the disc brakes or will the drums with hi-performance
linings suffice?

My $.02
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Brandon & Gilbert Russell" <russellg@dmv.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:00:37 -0400
Subject: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions

I own a 1984 H/O and would like put my problems to the group and see what
you come up with.


First here are some of the specs on the car

307 4bbl code Y
104,000 miles
Air-conditioning

I've had the car since May of last year and have been unable to get any
records of repairs that have been made before.

Problem #1

Erratic instrument panel.

90% of the Time the Tach Seems to read about 4000 Rpm's Crusing 1500 idle
Other times it seems to read correct at about <= 2000 Rpm's crusing and 750
idle.  Tach sits at zero when key is in on position but engine is not
started at all times.

The rest of the cluster Temp,Oil, Fuel and Voltmeter only work about 10% of
the time. When they are working it seems to read correctly, with the
exception of the Voltmeter when working and the engine running it shows
about 10 volts reading in the yellow area of the gauge.  When they are
working with the key on but engine not started they seem to read correctly
, again with the exception of the voltmeter which only goes up to the 10
volt area.

I put a tester on the electrical system and it shows output between 13-14
volts.

Okay where would you start? , What would you do?


Problem #2

Rough Idle,  High Hydrocarbons, can smell gas fumes.  runs better but not
what I would call good after warming up, engine dies if you don't let it
warm up.

I've replaced the CAP and Rotor and plugs
I've also replaced the small vacuum lines runing to the carb that improved
the performance some.

Went down to PEP boys to have them run a diagnostic on the engine below are
the results:
(da)=down arrow
(ua)=up arrow

CRANKING

		MIN		RESULT		MAX
RPM		140		155		340
DWELL		0.90		8.56		45.0	
SEC KV		5.00		8.6		--
COIL +		9.10		10.4		12.1
COIL -		0.10		0.99		1.60
VOLTS		9.60		11.2		12.8
AMPS		-50		-190		-250
HC PPM		1000		4428		------
VAC "HG	0.5		1.2		25.00
TEMP F		145		193		239

BASE TIMING

		MIN		RESULT		MAX	
RPM		1050		1099		1150
TIMING(L)	18.0		20.2		22.0
TEMP		145		218		239

MISCELLANEOUS

		MIN		RESULT		MAX
PEAK AMPS	2		22		100
COIL OSC	2		3		----
CO CHANGE	1.00		0.07(da)		----
POWER BAL RPM -		770		----


HIGH CRUISE

		MIN		RESULT		MAX
RPM		2400		2520		2600
DWELL DEG	11.2		32.6		38.2
TIMING (L)	26.00		31.4		70.00
VOLTS		13.0		14.0		15.0
AMPS		1		3		25
RIPPLE		0.00		0.03		0.12
HC PPM		0		62		200
CO %		0.00		0.62		1.50
O2%		0.00		0.77		2.50
CO2%		11.00		14.4		----
A/F Ratio	----		14.9		----
VAC HG		16.0		22.1		25.00
TEMP F		145		217		239


LOW CRUISE

		MIN		RESULT		MAX
RPM		1400		1540		1600
DWELL DEG	9.00		22.5		33.8	
TIMING (L)	24.0		31.3		65.0
VOLTS		13.2		14.0		15.0
AMPS		1		2		25
RIPPLE		0.00		0.02		0.12
HC PPM		0		178		250
CO %		0.00		0.56		2.00
O2%		0.00		0.97		2.50
CO2%		11.00		14.3		----
A/F Ratio	----		15.0		----
VAC HG		17.0		21.7		25.0
TEMP F		145		219		239


IDLE

		MIN		RESULT		MAX
RPM		750		753		850
DWELL DEG	4.5		13.2		33.8
TIMING (L)	----		----		----
VOLTS		13.0		14.0		15.0
AMPS		1		0		25
RIPPLE		0.00		0.00		0.12
HC PPM		0		466(ua)		350
CO %		0.00		0.51		2.50
O2%		0.00		8.00 (ua)		2.50
CO2%		10.00		8.75 (da)		----
A/F Ratio	----		22.2		----
VAC HG		13.0		19.8		25.0	
TEMP F		145		209		239



CYL	RELATIVE	POWER		HC	FIRING		SPARK		SPARK		KV		CYL
	COMPRESSION	BALANCE	CHG	  
KV		KV		DURATION          CHG
1	95		95			5.7		1.08		2.14		9.0(UA)		1
8	100		92			6.7		1.14		2.14		10.3(UA)	8
4	99		100			5.2		1.00		2.29		9.7(UA)		4
3	100		100			5.9		1.02		2.24		9.4(UA)		3
6	99		70(DA)			5.5		1.06		2.15		10.0(UA)	6
5	100		100			5.6		1.26		1.74 
(DA)	10.9(UA)	5
7	100		100			6.3		1.09		1.99		9.0(UA)		7
2	97		100			5.6		1.04		2.22		9.0(UA)		2


	

Summary

ENGINE SYSTEM		DIAGNOSIS
STARTING			OKAY
CHARGING			OKAY
IGNITION			PROBLEM
COMPRESSION			OKAY
FUEL/EMISSIONS		PROBLEM
COOLING			OKAY


They couldn't tell me what was wrong and I did not pay for the diagnostic.

What do you think is the problem and what action do you recommend taking.

------------------------------

From: "Brandon & Gilbert Russell" <russellg@dmv.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:04:16 -0400
Subject: Changing E-mail Address

How do I change the E-mail address that the digest is being sent to.

Gil

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:21:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Thoes wacky automatics...was Re: Auto Tranny question

Scott R Clark wrote:
>

>         According to my shop manual,from somtime before 1954 and until
> '55 you got what they
> call a "Dual Range Hydramatic" I'm not really too sure just what it was
> but it sounds like maybe it was a two speed auto.  In 1956, the Dual
> Coupling Four Speed Hydramatic was introduced, and was available until
> 1960.  During this time it was produced in two different versions--one
> made from 1956 to 1959, the second had a run from '59 through 1960,
> although the differences look minimal.  The latter is what my '60 98 is
> equiped with.  In 1961, the book lists a "Three Speed Hydramatic" being
> introduced, with a scaled down version used in the early F-85.  I'm pretty
> sure it's unrelated to the TH-350, and I think it was used until 1963 or
> '64, whenever the slim jim was introduced.
>
>
> > The four speed Hydramatic was considerably different from more modern
> > automatics... it had NO torque converter! I had two fluid couplings
> > (from mid-1950s on), one of which was used for shifting purposed.
> > It filled and drained to effect one of the shifts, along with
> > regular plate clutches for other shifts. The shift involving the fluid
> > coupling was very soft and slow.
>
>
>
>                                 Scott
>                         1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

Scott,

All of the first Hydra-Matics were 4 speeds from 1939 through the middle
'50s.  Dual range meant that you had several drive ranges on the shift
quadrant & could lock in certain shifting patterns such as 2nd gear
start for snow & ice or locking the car in 3rd for decending hills.

The Slim Jim was a 1964 feature.  That is a main difference between a
1963 & '64 Grand Prix.

My Jetfire has one of those miniature Hydra-Matics.  It is a slow
shifting 3-speed.  The Buick & Pontiac of those years (215 aluminum V8s)
got a version of the Power Glide.  There is just not enough torque in
that 215 for any spirited performance out of a 2-speed.  Mine takes a
3.36 rear & that 3-speed to get "good" performance (0-60 in 8.4 as
compared to 11.5 for the Buick 4-barrel w/2-speed).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:11:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Auto Tranny question

At 12:36 PM 2/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>> BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
>> left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
>> right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".
>>
>>
>>      I guess if you're using the "LSD" side, you probably don't care about
>>      whether or not you have "super performance" ;)
>>
>
>	Ha!  I've been waiting ever since this thread started for someone
>to make a clever wisecrack about that.  Looks like you beat me too it :)
>	
>				Scott
>			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
>
>
>
Is someone suggested that they got their transmission shift, so that this
time it's 'cross threaded.'

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:48:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds lovers unite!

Thanks for  the correction Drew.  I had it written down correctly.  I
had a lapse between my brain (imagine that) and fingers when typing.


Dave(Mavis didn't teach me to type)Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:03:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

I'm in class right now, using Pine, so I'm leaving ~all~ the old post in
here.  I'm such a bandwidth killer :)

I may be interested in parts in the near future.  I found out this weekend
that my only local parts car was crushed :o, so I'm looking elsewhere.
There are a couple nearby places I'll check, first.  The big killer,
though, is that I got the report in my hand, and it says under her
insurance carrier:  NONE.  Ouch.  I haven't had a chance to contact her,
yet, but the proverbial feces may hit the proverbial fan soon!

Maybe we should fire up a ~wrecked~ Olds mailing list?.....

Thanks.

I'm not sure about the Hurst vs Cutlass parts.  I'm sure they'd
interchange, but I don't know what all is different.  I know they list
different part #'s for the rear bumper guards, and the reinforcement under
the bumper has two different styles, with the aluminum one being twice as
spendy....

I'll do some more digging when I make it home.



On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Tom Lentz wrote:

>
>      Sorry to hear it happen you you, Charlie.  I'm sure the rockit will be
>      back to life soon though, with your skills.  I know how you feel,
>      since the same thing just happened to me.  Perhaps not as bad,
but the
>      few parts I need might be a bit harder to find.
>
>      Wed. morning going to work in the '84 H/O (It's my only driver, aside
>      from the SO's truck) the guy in the left lane decided that he wanted
>      to occupy the same space as me.  My options at that point were to get
>      hit (he would have clipped about the front 2 feet of my car) or to
>      brake hard and swerve.  I chose the latter and avoided the car, but of
>      course there happened to be black ice right there which combined with
>      the violent manoever pictched the car slightly sideways.  Went
>      gracefully over the curb into the retaining wall headfirst at about
>      5mph.  Had I hit it myself (I mean me, not the car) Id'a just shrugged
>      it off, but no. . .  The front of the car is mostly plastic.  So now,
>      I'm looking for a new airdam, one grill, one headlight bezel, and both
>      turn signals (it was a very irregular, pointy, rough volcanic rock
>      wall).  I think I have a lead on most parts except for the grill (that
>      airdam is gonna be expensive, good thing I got the uninsured motorist
>      to cover it.  They're considering this a hit-and-run since I had two
>      witness', but nobody got a plate #).
>
>      Does anybody know if the grille and turn signals are different on the
>      H/O than a normal Cutlass?  Are they the same as the '84 Cutlass
>      Calais?  I've found two NOS headlight bezels, for a good price, and I
>      think I can get a used airdam, so all that leaves is the turn signals
>      and the grille.  The signals are amber and I think the plain Cutlass's
>      signals are clear with amber bulbs.  The grille is mostly black where
>      I think the normal grille is silver.  Anyone know for sure?  Anyone
>      out there with an '84 Calais?
>
>      Charlie, if there's any parts I can get you here in Spokane, let me
>      know.  There's a few junkyards with good 80's Cutlass's in them, one
>      in particular I'm sure has what you need.  I can ship small parts, and
>      I get over to Missoula a few times a year if you want to come down and
>      meet me for any larger parts.
>
>      Tom Lentz
>      tlentz@teknon.com
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ > Subject: Ouch goes the Rockit  :( >
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET > Date:    2/8/97 2:49 AM > > >
Well, it was bound to happen, and tonight it finally did.  While >
cruising >

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:04:16 -0400
Subject: Speaking of new BFG drag radials

Just received the latest Hod Rod in the mail today.  There is an article on
the new Drag Radial Street Tires from BFG.  I haven't read this article (if
that's what it's called, it's 1 page with pictures), but I have read other
articles on these tires.  I don't have any experience with them yet, key word
yet, but as I understand it they sound like a good tire for classic
musclecars.  As soon as I get my GTO back together I was planning on trying a
pair of them.  But that is a long way off as the body is off the frame, the
motor is apart waiting to go to a machine shop and I have yet to purchase a
muncie 4-sp tranny.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris_r._smetana@dadc.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's - one is a parts car
1971 Skylark custom convertable
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:51:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions

     Hi there!  It's hard to say exactly what it is, especially the second
     problem, but here's what I'd check.

     #1 sounds very much like a bad electrical connection, probably a bad
     ground.  The tach problem is _very_ common, see the FAQ on www.442.com
     about reseating the 6/8cyl clip on the back of the gauge.  I would
     take the gauge cluster out and clean and reseat all connections and
     grounds.  If that doesn't do it, then it may be a problem with the
     voltage regulator onboard the gauge cluster.  Dunno if you can replace
     these or not.

     #2 could be many things, and what route to take depends on what your
     mechanical ability is, and how much time you want to spend vs. how
     much money you want to spend.  The easiest way would be to take it
     down to a mechanic who can put it on a scope and tell you in more
     detail what's wrong.  If a cyl is misfiring he can pinpoint it exactly
     for you.  The rough idle combined with high HC's could be a misfiring
     cyliner.  Since you already changed the cap, rotor, and plugs, I would
     first try a new set of plug wires (pry could use 'em at that mileage
     anyways), and if that doesn't fix it then you're probably looking at a
     carburetor problem (could be the O2 sensor too, but I'd think you'd
     get a service engine soon light for that).  You could troubleshoot the
     carb, but with your high mileage I think it would be best to just have
     it rebuilt.  If you don't feel comfortable rebuilding the electronic
     carburetor on these, it's time to go down to the mechanics.  I got
     mine rebuilt for $125 over a year ago, shop around and you might find
     it for less (I was in a pinch, it was 10 below outside, no garage, car
     kept flooding and wouldn't start, and they offered free towing if they
     did the repair).  Don't exchange your carb for a rebuilt one, besides
     being more expensive than a rebuild, your car won't be numbers
     matching anymore.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions
Author:  Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/10/97 9:36 AM


I own a 1984 H/O and would like put my problems to the group and see what
you come up with.

Erratic instrument panel.

90% of the Time the Tach Seems to read about 4000 Rpm's Crusing 1500 idle
Other times it seems to read correct at about <= 2000 Rpm's crusing and 750
idle.  Tach sits at zero when key is in on position but engine is not
started at all times.

Problem #2

Rough Idle,  High Hydrocarbons, can smell gas fumes.  runs better but not
what I would call good after warming up, engine dies if you don't let it
warm up.

I've replaced the CAP and Rotor and plugs
I've also replaced the small vacuum lines runing to the carb that improved
the performance some.

------------------------------

From: Junior627@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: yet another muff question

In a message dated 97-02-08 16:45:04 EST, you write:

<< Nicolo,

 	Your car should be the same underneath as the 1984 Hurst/Olds.  I
 have a 1985 Cutlass Supreme with the 231 V6 and I am considering putting
 the exhaust from the Hurst/Olds on my car.  It's a single cat, dual
 muffler.  The layout looks like this.


 			
 			| |      | |
 		         | |    | | Pipes from Engine
 			  | |  | |
 			   | || |
 			    |  |
 			    |  |
 			  --------
 			  |      |  Cat
 			  |      |
        			  --------
 			    |  |
 			    |  |
 			   / /\ \
 			  / /  \ \ Y-Pipe
 			 / /    \ \  (Intermediate Pipe)
 			/ /      \ \
 		       / /        \ \
 	  	      -----      -----
 		      |   |      |   |  Mufflers
                       |   |      |   |
 		      -----      -----
 		       | |        | |
 		      / /          \ \
 		     / /            \ \
 			Rear of Car

 	I hoped this helped.


 Brian Steinbach >>

what have you heard about gains from this system how does it sound...

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:13:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

There are a couple nearby places I'll check, first.  The big killer,
>though, is that I got the report in my hand, and it says under her
>insurance carrier:  NONE.  Ouch.  I haven't had a chance to contact her,
>yet, but the proverbial feces may hit the proverbial fan soon!

Hmm. Do you have to contact her at all? Do you have an Uninsured/Under-
insured rider on your policy? This sounds like what it's there for. You
claim with _your_ company (I know, I know...) and leave it up to them to
go after her.

Besides, she'll probably just tell you to talk to her lawyer (the one
she had to call about that pesky DUI charge) and the lawyer will probably
tell you to file a claim with your agent. At worst, there's always Small
Claims court but it sounds like you may be dealing with an uncollectible
loser anyway. How about offering to take her Fiero in trade?  ;-)

>Maybe we should fire up a ~wrecked~ Olds mailing list?.....

Let's not. Somewhere in the files I have color photos from the past when
assorted family Oldsmobiles were banged into on various occasions, and I
can't think of any reason to drag _those_ out and reminisce.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:16:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions

>Problem #2
>
>Rough Idle,  High Hydrocarbons, can smell gas fumes.  runs better but not
>what I would call good after warming up, engine dies if you don't let it
>warm up.

I kind of skimmed through the numbers quickly, but see no mention that
anyone dumped the computer codes to see if there was anything stored.
Given the age of car, I'd probably check for a worn-out oxygen sensor
and maybe a clogged catalytic convertor. The former would have one or
two error codes stored, the latter would show up in a vacuum check.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:55:25 -0400
Subject: Highway RPM

Hey, does anyone out there run a 3.23 rearend with 245/60R15 tires? I
want to go to 3.23 and that tire size , but I am concerned about highway
RPM. I did the Bowling math and came up with 3102 @ 80MPH. I am not real
pleased with that number. Gas milage is not an issue, I just don't like
my engine running that high. In Dallas, 80 miles an hour is "the flow".
Just curious is anyone runs this particular combo and could give me
there RPM numbers for the same speed. Also I was told, or more or less
heard that anything above 3200 RPM for a sustained amount of time was
the limit. Any thoughts on that?

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:58:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 1984 Hurst/Olds repair Suggestions

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> >Problem #2
> >
> >Rough Idle,  High Hydrocarbons, can smell gas fumes.  runs better but not
> >what I would call good after warming up, engine dies if you don't let it
> >warm up.
>
> I kind of skimmed through the numbers quickly, but see no mention that
> anyone dumped the computer codes to see if there was anything stored.
> Given the age of car, I'd probably check for a worn-out oxygen sensor
> and maybe a clogged catalytic convertor. The former would have one or
> two error codes stored, the latter would show up in a vacuum check.
>
> Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282


Might want to check the MAP sensor also, if it has developed a hole in
the diaphragm, it will cause this behavior, engine will run sour if the
Throttle position sensor is bad, which you should be concerned about if
the engine has ever been soaked, i.e. washing the engine.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:43:34 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

     Ouch is right if she doesn't have insurance.  Glad I got the full
     coverage w/ uninsured motorist.  I'm still paranoid that they'll say
     it costs too much to fix and it's totalled (car is still plenty
     driveable, just minus one turn signal and one crooked headlight).

     The funny part was when I was down at the dealer's body shop getting
     an estimate.  The estimator has a heavy Texan accent and kept calling
     it a "Hurt/Olds".  Which is about correct. . .

     Yes, all the cutlass parts will bolt onto a Hurst, but I think the
     factory makes them look just different enough so that they're a PITA
     to replace.  I have found out that the amber turn signals in front are
     the same as the Calais (normall cutlass has clear w/ amber bulbs), and
     I found a source for the headlight bezels ($19 each, NOS!  Yahoo!).
     Now I just have to figure out the grill.  Anyone out there with an '84
     Calais or Cutlass that wants to compare theirs for me?  The H/O's has
     vertical "teeth" on each grill (about 12 of 'em, haven't counted), and
     it's all black except for a chrome front to every other tooth, and
     chrome around the outside edge.

     E-mail me when you want to start the parts hunt. . .

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/10/97 12:21 PM

I may be interested in parts in the near future.  I found out this weekend
that my only local parts car was crushed :o, so I'm looking elsewhere.
There are a couple nearby places I'll check, first.  The big killer,
though, is that I got the report in my hand, and it says under her
insurance carrier:  NONE.  Ouch.  I haven't had a chance to contact her,
yet, but the proverbial feces may hit the proverbial fan soon!

Maybe we should fire up a ~wrecked~ Olds mailing list?.....


------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #510
********************************
