
oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 27 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 539

Re: Many Thanks
Dave paulison's attitude on quality
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: Dave paulison's attitude on quality
Where Olds is Today 
BOP Swap Meet
positraction, FWD
Re: Need part for bucket seat... 
Re: BOP Swap Meet 
Tire Size (was: 70' 442-W30) 
engine weights
Mike Aldana's public flame (WAS: Dave paulison's...) 
Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it)
Car Book?
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 
Where Olds is today
RRAP
Re: Truck wanted for project..... 
Re: positraction, FWD 
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 
Re: engine weights 
Re: Adjustable Valves 
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: Truck wanted for project..... 
Re: Where Olds is today
Re: About that Ciera with the Brake Problem... 
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it) 
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it) 
Re: Where Olds is today
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: CHAT GROUP 
cam specs
200-4R
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: 200-4R 
Mexican workmanship 
Re: 200-4R
Re: 200-4R
Oldsmobile on DALnet
'70 4-4-2 W-30
Re: 65 F-85 
Re: Adjustable Valves 
Heads up.
Re: GM Parts
Re: 79 Cutlass Ralleye Pack
Re: Many Thanks
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: 200-4R
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: 200-4R
Re: more engine questions 
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
One question...  (was: ARP main studs) 
Junkyard 1970 Cutlass S...was a '72. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pteubel@safety1st.com (Peter Teubel)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:57:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Many Thanks

     Hold on there, pard!  There are a few like me out there who want a 
     classic or antique, but can only afford the cheaper 4dr models.  Not a 
     good investment, but still unique to drive and show.
     
     
     
     
     Peter G. Teubel
     pteubel@safety1st.com
     '51 98
     '82 98
     '86 Ciera (Wife's car)
     


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Many Thanks
Author:  Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com> at imail
Date:    2/26/97 5:12 PM

aspect, but as an investment.  Plus it will be tons easier to sell 
than my '61 Super 88 (nobody wants 4 doors...even hardtops!!).
I'm going to try and work out a swap with them, hopefully an even 
one...we'll see.
     
Happy Oldsmobiling!!
     
Jeff ('61 Super 88)
- -- 
===================================================================== 
Jeffrey W. King (N5PNU)     Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com 
Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org 
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM 
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!! 
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
=====================================================================
     

------------------------------

From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@quix.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:00:19 -0400
Subject: Dave paulison's attitude on quality

>This attitude of poor quality work coming from someone who hasn't even
found the time to write me a note asking what it is all about is something
that should not be said. Let's not put the horse before the cart! If dave
wants to burn somebody do directly with me ,the person concerned, or is
there a trace of racist attitude in that head?  mike aldana
maldana@quix.net

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:09:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

> 
> Clayton Pierce wrote:
> >
> > If it was me, I'd probably just get a set of Goodyears w/ raised white
> > letters, a good traction/tread rating, and "z" speed rating.  Probably I'd
> > put 245/60/15's on the back and 225/60/15's on the front, although I might
> > be able to be talked into going to a 65 series tire.  
>
> John Schumacher wrote:
> 
> I second Clayton's suggestion.  Although I would install 225's on all
> four corners to allow rotation.

I don't know about 225s all the way around.  I've got 245/60/14s all
around on mine, and they still look too small for the rear wheel well.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:32:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Dave paulison's attitude on quality

Mike Aldana wrote:
> 
> This attitude of poor quality work...
> ...or is there a trace of racist attitude in that head?  

Dave said "That wouldn't make me feel real confident about quality..."

I fail to see the connection.  By what magic formula does Dave's lack of 
confidence in quality translate in racism?  I would have similar concerns 
about something produced in Russia or number of other countries.

    66 Toro 
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:21:40 -0400
Subject: Where Olds is Today 

The bride and I had dinner last night with a member of our OCA Chapter who is
also in Olds middle management.  He told us some things that I think might be
of interest and explain why and where Olds is today.  Some of this was really
new to me.

1. The move from Lansing.  He confirmed this is happening. But, it only
involves about 100 people who will either have to move or commute from
Lansing.  The manufacturing plants are staying. It is only management moving.
 All GM Divisions will be in the same building now. Detroit, so Buick will be
moving too.

2.  As several of us have suspected it _is_ the marketing side that is
driving much of what has been happening.  There is heavy, very heavy,
reliance on focus groups of customers.  Believe it or not, it is this fellows
opinion that the reason there is not more public centennial promotion is that
these customers are very negative about the "old Olds".  In fact, the 98 was
not dropped just because of low sales, every model name, except one, received
negative appeal comments.  The only one with positive responses was
"Cutlass".  Well, at least they will save that name.

3.  The following nearly floored me.  GM has mandated which markets each
Division will focus on.  Olds literally got the leftovers.  He even said "and
we have been told we can't step on the toes of Buick and Pontiac."  The
market they have been left to focus on are the import buyers, particularly
the Honda, etc. buyers.  He told me flat out that the kind of cars built in
the 60-70's and even early 80's will never be produced again, at least by
Olds.  It is clear to me that if you want a personal, mid priced GM
"performance" car, go see Pontiac or Chevy. Olds will not make one for the
foreseeable future.

I expressed a lot of the same frustrations found here, 2 door models (they
don't sell), mid priced performance cars (nitch cars don't make the company
any money), etc.  I actually got him pissed at me!  He mellowed, he is as
frustrated as we are.  He still has his original owner 69 Cutlass.

Bummed me out for what was an otherwise nice dinner.

So guys, I for one give up.  I will keep the Olds wheels turning on muscle
era survivors and provide support to others seeking the same, for whatever
year Olds.  I won't be tilting any more windmills trying to get Olds to wake
up tho.  Their market is decided for them by marketing and corporate edicts.
 As much as at least some of them might desire, the market most of us
represent no longer belongs within Olds Division.

I plan to revel in what I hope is a great Centennial celebration in Lansing
and, when a new car is possible, seek other brands.  I'll at least start with
GM.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:21:01 -0400
Subject: BOP Swap Meet

Olds and Toro lists, and RRAP members:

For those who may not be aware, there's a BOP swap meet at DuPage County 
Fairgrounds in Wheaton IL (Chicago suburb) on Sunday April 6.  My sister lives 
nearby and there's a chance that I can get a good deal on a plane ticket and 
boogie out there for that weekend.  If so, would like to try to meet face/face 
with anyone on the Olds and Toro lists and the Rocket Road Assistance Program 
who's gonna be there.

Therefore, I'll do the stint of keeping a list of those of us who might make it 
to this event.

If you think you may go, please email me _direct_ with your name, email address 
and phone, and I'll keep track and post the list shortly before the swap meet.  
Also, indicate whether you're a "yes" or a "maybe"... "Maybes", please keep me 
up to date when your decision is firm.  BTW, my email server seems to have an 
identity crisis, so use the address below!

I'm not on the Olds list, so not sure if there's been any traffic about this... 
if there has, and I'm duplicating somebody else's efforts, sorry about that and 
please let me know!

Hope to hook up with a bunch of you in April!

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

PS, I'm in Gaithersburg MD near Washington DC; there are two smaller AACA swap 
meets near here, 3/8 at Howard County MD Fairgrounds, and 3/22 at Frederick 
County MD Fairgrounds... anyone interested in these, let me know!

D

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:42:38 -0400
Subject: positraction, FWD

Speaking of positraction, I looked into a limited-slip setup for my '90
Calais when I noticed that the W-41 Calais had it.  The local Olds dealer
wanted 1,400 dollars for the unit and Checker wanted 1,100 for the same
unit.  It's a clutchless unit, but I really don't know much about these
posi-type things.  I don't remember the manufacturer, if it was a GM
division or some other supplier.  
Does anyone happen to know who made these and what their address is?
Is this a reasonable price range for such a piece of machinery?
Or how about where I might look for a decent used one?

As always, any input is appreciated.
Thanx!

           Jim

           '90 Calais W-40

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:46:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Need part for bucket seat... 

At 06:39 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I bought a set of bucket seats out of a '69 Cutlass yesterday.  They are in
>primo condition, except for a few little things.  On my passenger seat, the
>piece of metal that slides up the back (underneath the seat back) to latch
>the seat back is busted.  It looked like it was just bent, but when I took it
>off to straighten it, I found out that it was broken down inside the plastic
>sleeve.  Does anyone have a spare one of these lying around that they'd
>be willing to sell cheap?  Like maybe $5 or $10 bucks?  I also need a pair
>of good buttons.  The one on my passenger seat is broken, and the one on
>my driver seat is peeling.  Thanks...
>
>-Blaine
>
>
Blaine

        Hi, it's Jim. I found one of those clips you wanted. So I'll give
you my address. Just send my a check for $13.00 and that will cover the
shipping. 
Thanks,

Jim Chermack 
1132 Chatmoss Drive
Virginia Beach, VA 23464

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442>

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:58:56 -0400
Subject: Re: BOP Swap Meet 

At 07:21 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Olds and Toro lists, and RRAP members:
>
>For those who may not be aware, there's a BOP swap meet at DuPage County 
>Fairgrounds in Wheaton IL (Chicago suburb) on Sunday April 6.  My sister lives 
>nearby and there's a chance that I can get a good deal on a plane ticket and 
>boogie out there for that weekend.  If so, would like to try to meet face/face 
>with anyone on the Olds and Toro lists and the Rocket Road Assistance Program 
>who's gonna be there.
>
>Therefore, I'll do the stint of keeping a list of those of us who might
make it 
>to this event.
>
>If you think you may go, please email me _direct_ with your name, email
address 
>and phone, and I'll keep track and post the list shortly before the swap
meet.  
>Also, indicate whether you're a "yes" or a "maybe"... "Maybes", please keep me 
>up to date when your decision is firm.  BTW, my email server seems to have an 
>identity crisis, so use the address below!
>
>I'm not on the Olds list, so not sure if there's been any traffic about
this... 
>if there has, and I'm duplicating somebody else's efforts, sorry about that
and 
>please let me know!
>
>Hope to hook up with a bunch of you in April!
>
>Doug Kitchener
>dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us
>
>PS, I'm in Gaithersburg MD near Washington DC; there are two smaller AACA swap 
>meets near here, 3/8 at Howard County MD Fairgrounds, and 3/22 at Frederick 
>County MD Fairgrounds... anyone interested in these, let me know!
>
Doug,

        Hey it's Jim Chermack. I might be interested in one of those swap
meets up in MD. I have to see if I have anything going on. If you could can
you find out what a space price is? Thanks. Did you get me on the Rocket
Roadside Assistance Program? I just don't remember an e-mail back and I
didn't see a new list in the March JWO. I want to e-mail you a list of parts
I have for sale if you know anyone interested in buying or trading.

Thanks Again,

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:17:27 -0400
Subject: Tire Size (was: 70' 442-W30) 

Snip tire size discussion...
          
I don't know about 225s all the way around.  I've got 245/60/14s all 
around on mine, and they still look too small for the rear wheel well.
          
Kurt
71 442
          
          I agree.  I've run BFG 245/60-14s on a number of Olds 
          A-bodies over the years (65 442, 68 VC, 68 442, 70 W-30, 70 
          Supreme, and 72 442), using a variety of rims (primarily 
          SSIIs in both 14x6 and 14x7 sizes, but also some aftermarket 
          aluminum rims) and the tires always look too small in 
          diameter, especially in the rear wheel wells.  My 69 H/O 
          currently has BFG 255/60-15s on the stock H/O SSIIs and they 
          look much better.  I experience minimal rubbing on the 
          fronts on hard bumps at full steering lock, but it is a 
          minimal problem.
          
          One other thing I've noticed is that the backspacing on the 
          SSIIs results in less clearance problems on the front tires. 
          The aftermarket rims I've used all had a different 
          backspacing than the stock rims, resulting in excessive 
          front tire rubbing.  This isn't a condemnation of 
          aftermarket rims, only a reminder to get the correct 
          backspacing (as opposed to buying the rims which are sale at 
          the moment, like I did).  If you've got your heart set on a 
          factory look, get the 73-up SSIIIs.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:30:12 -0400
Subject: engine weights

Can anyone tell me the difference in weight between a small block and a big 
block (65-present)?
Pat

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:36:01 -0400
Subject: Mike Aldana's public flame (WAS: Dave paulison's...) 

>This attitude of poor quality work coming from someone who hasn't even
>found the time to write me a note asking what it is all about is something
>that should not be said. Let's not put the horse before the cart! If dave
>wants to burn somebody do directly with me ,the person concerned, or is
>there a trace of racist attitude in that head? 

Whoa!  Take it easy there, partner!  Nothing personal intended.  It was just
a comment.  I am ~always~ wary of parts quality when they are manufactured,
repaired, rebuilt, or whatever outside the U.S.  'Scuse me for being
cautious.  It has nothing to do with racism (who would care if it did?);
that makes no sense.  I'm sure there are plenty of Mexican or Japanese or
whatever race people working in the U.S. at auto parts manufacturing plants.
It is based on my past experiences with parts manufactured in other parts of
the world.  Disc brake rotors made in China, fan belts and brake shoes made
in (wait for it) Mexico, as well as a multitude of other parts I used when I
started working on my own cars ten years ago (and none of my cars were horse
and carts).  I think my opinion (that's all it is; take it or leave it) is
based more on things like quality of parts and manufacturing processes.  

I wasn't intending to burn ~anybody~.  If I had, I *would have* done it
personally.  I never claimed to know anything about your operation or the
services offered.  But when you start a post with "All of our work is done
in Mexico", it sets off a little warning in my head to be ~very cautious~.  

Remember...opinions are like a**holes; everybody's got one.  Lighten up.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Terry Bradley" <Docolds@Magmacom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it)

The Doctor Lives

Looking for 70 cutlass parts mostly things like guage package, front 4 core
rad support, fenders, front bumper and for a 72 a front bumper.
interested in parts to use not cores as it is too expensive to rechrome
here.

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:27:01 -0400
Subject: Car Book?

Olds and Toro lists, and Road Assistance Program Members-

I've just had a phone call from a friend who is a photo-journalist and auto
enthusiast.  He is interested in doing a book about cars (or trucks or
motorcycles) which have been handed down in families for two or more
generations.  Vehicles could be as new as mid-'70s models, but the older, the
better, of course, and the more surviving "generations" that can be
interviewed, the better.  Vehicles don't have to be in "show" condition by any
means, but he's not interested in something that's up on blocks, either,
although a vehicle undergoing restoration would be considered.  Right now this
project is in the "dream/early planning" stage; he phoned tonight to describe
it to me and ask if I knew anyone who fit the profile.

If you're interested, please email me _privately_ with your name, address,
phone number and a brief description and history of the car; I'll forward all
this on to my friend who'll get back to you.  This guy's credentials are
impeccable, among the cars he's owned are a '57 Olds 88 Fiesta and a '67
Ninety-Eight convertible.  He's worked for one of the largest newspapers in
the country, and is currently employed by a well-known wire service.  If you
feel hesitant about providing any of this information, just let me know and
I'll give you his address and phone number and you can contact him!

Thanks,

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 

Hi Bob
  Starfire name was brought back to use in 61 as a midyear model in a
converable only, base car had powerwindows drivers powerseat power ant power
streering full leather interior bucket seat aond console, all other stuff was
options, There were only 7600 made in 61, 62 was a convert & coupe only
leather centers on seats and bucket seat and console were standard every else
was an option it was like this thru 65 but in 65 a rare option of a four
speed was offered, 66 was the last year for the Starfire and in a coupe only
and now even the bucket seets were an option, the car was replaced with the
Toro,
  The alum trim is real  tuff to come by, there in a guy in Indiana who
refinishes it and I understand he does a nice job.
  Pricing of these cars is difficult but if you find one I can help you
determine a fair price

Everett   61 Starfire 48,000 orig miles has original top and everything

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:48:30 -0400
Subject: Where Olds is today

Hey Bob, thanks for the insight!
I just read an article on the upcoming Olds Intrigue and it seemed like a
pretty neat car.  The AutoWeek article did also mention something about
the car being an import-fighter.  Too bad Olds killed off the High Output
Quad4 and W-40-series options.  They coulda used those in a
Prelude-fighter.  Woulda beat the snot outta them, too!
Sure wish the higher-ups at GM would wake up!

   Jim 

   '90 Calais

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:55:36 -0400
Subject: RRAP

Douglas,

What's the "Road Rocket Assistance Program"?

      Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:11:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Truck wanted for project..... 

Talk about a Bravada Pick Up

   I did it, a 90 s10  and a few dollars later, I was a parts manager for an
Olds dealership so I got parts for cost. since Bravada came out in 91 when
S10 nose was changed I has to even  change the radiator support, I put in a
leather steering wheel glove box emble even the Bravada taillights fit, the
rear bumber was a little project buts ok also. all the parts on the cap and
nose bolt up fine, I bought Cutlass convertible roker moulding to fabricate
the rear pieces and it worked, I put the skin fron a blaxer tailgate over my
tailgate and put locks on the inside and thers my Olds pickup

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:25:41 -0400
Subject: Re: positraction, FWD 

     Doh!  $1100 !?!?  I don't know how much different the FWD limited-slip 
     is from the RWD unit, but I just had a GM doublock limited slip rear 
     put in my '84 H/O.  Cost $250 for the unit, plus a few hundred more 
     for installation, new bearings (didn't absolutely need them, but 
     mightaswell since it's apart), fluid, etc.
     
     I have seen that limited slip diff. in the GM performance parts 
     catalog.  You might want to check the price in there.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: positraction, FWD
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET
Date:    2/26/97 4:03 PM


Speaking of positraction, I looked into a limited-slip setup for my '90 
Calais when I noticed that the W-41 Calais had it.  The local Olds dealer 
wanted 1,400 dollars for the unit and Checker wanted 1,100 for the same 
unit.  It's a clutchless unit, but I really don't know much about these 
posi-type things.  I don't remember the manufacturer, if it was a GM 
division or some other supplier.  
Does anyone happen to know who made these and what their address is? 
Is this a reasonable price range for such a piece of machinery?
Or how about where I might look for a decent used one?
     
As always, any input is appreciated. 
Thanx!
     
           Jim
     
           '90 Calais W-40
     
     

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:45:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

John Schumacher wrote:
> 
> Clayton Pierce wrote:
> >
> > If it was me, I'd probably just get a set of Goodyears w/ raised white
> > letters, a good traction/tread rating, and "z" speed rating.  Probably I'd
> > put 245/60/15's on the back and 225/60/15's on the front, although I might

I once looked for z or even h rated tires with raised white lettering
for my Olds
and could not find any.The best I found were BF T\A radials which are s
rated.
Where did you find yours and about how much?
Frank 70 442
71 442 W30 convt
72 Cutlass S
90 LSC

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:54:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 

In a message dated 97-02-25 19:45:03 EST, you write:

> When I win the 
>  lottery ;-) I think I might like to have a '50 98 convertible... 

Greg

Go for the 88 instead.  They're lighter, and prettier.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:04:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists? 

In a message dated 97-02-26 02:03:52 EST, you write:

> Following this growing trend, I should join a '65 Starfire discussion 
>  group myself,  However, I'm afraid I'd be the only one there!
>  
>  "Carpe momentum" 
>  Shaun R. Guillermin
>  

Shaun

Maybe you should join the Oldsmobile Club of America and join their
Starfire/Jetstar I chapter.

Paul

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:08:05 -0400
Subject: Re: engine weights 

At 07:30 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Can anyone tell me the difference in weight between a small block and a big 
>block (65-present)?
>Pat



Pat
        A typical 350 small block weighs approx. 595lbs dry. Big blocks are
pushin 700lbs.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442>

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:18:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Adjustable Valves 

 The  "R" engine code in an Oldsmobile Division built motor 

 The "L" engine code in a Chevrolet Division built motor that was used in
Olsmobiles in the late seventies

Everett

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:29:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

rdeeba wrote:
> 
> What are the best tires to put on the 1970 Olds 442-W30 for normal
> street driving.  Thanks for the opportunity to ask the question.
> 
> Rick Deeba

Exactly what do you consider "normal street driving"? Normal for me is
lighting the tires at any traffic light where there are no cops present.
I use Grand Am Radial GTs rwl. They are a fairly hard compound and are
not very sticky. I have had a set on my '70 4-4-2 for six years of hard
seconds and show very little wear. Now if you want more traction go with
the BF Goodrich or all the way with a set of MT DOT tires. Just remember
the trade off of sticky tires is short life and the trade for long life
is poor traction.

Danny

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:31:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Truck wanted for project..... 

In a message dated 97-02-26 05:36:54 EST, you write:

>  I've
>  >heard of dealers getting trucks of the carrier with Scotsdale on one
fender
>  >and Sierra on the other, though, so that supports the theory of them 
> running
>  >down the same line...  :)

When I worked for the Olds dealer in '87 we got in a new Toronado.  When you
opened the driver's side door, the sill plate said TORONADO.  When you opened
the passenger side door, the sill plate said RIVIERA.  And you'd never
believe the number of times that we get cars with owner's manuals from
another division.

As an aside to your GMC theory, the Olds dealer had GMCs as well.  We had an
old salesman that used to jokingly tell his customers that all these trucks
came down the same assembly line.  When they got to the end they were put
through a quality check.  The ones that passed got GMC emblems, the ones that
failed...  You wouldn't believe how many people thought that was true.
 Seriously, they come down the same lines, have the same parts and
insulation, etc.  Even the base prices and option prices are identical.  The
GMCs do usually have a fancier chrome grille, and sometimes the wheel options
are different.  GMC only has a perceived value over the generic brand.

Paul
used to sell 'em

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:37:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Where Olds is today

> I just read an article on the upcoming Olds Intrigue and it seemed like a
> pretty neat car.  

The problem with the Intrigue is that it is only available in 4 doors. 
I'd be tempted to buy a two door model with some power under the hood. 
I have also given up on Olds.  The best thing you can do is to buy that
new Shelby car.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:37:00 -0400
Subject: Re: About that Ciera with the Brake Problem... 

At 12:15 PM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In reading all the discussion about the work done on the rear
>brakes of that car, and how the front ones do most of the work,
>etc., I thought I'd mention one thing that I haven't seen others
>address yet: The original poster was complaining about high pedal
>effort, which is still there after a mechanic worked on the brakes.

Just occurred to me: An obstruction in the line, or a crimped line, or a
collapsed flexible hose, all sound like likely culprits on this one. Sounds
like only half or 3/4 of his brake system is working.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:47:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

> 
> I second Clayton's suggestion.  Although I would install 225's on all
> four corners to allow rotation.
> 
> John Schumacher

I agree...except....don't tires rotate when the car is moving?!?!?? :)

Danny


> NTOC#254
> OCA#021551
> 64 D88
> 69 442
> 74 Supreme

------------------------------

From: Oldsnut1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:41:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it) 

Doc Olds;
Sorry but I don't have any of the parts you are asking for .
depending on where you live I can try to hook you up w/someone I know.I've
got connections all over the country (esp. north east )I live in NY
Anthony B.
Oldsnut1@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:01:19 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

This has been a good discussion, with interesting ideas put forth by everyone.

> I can't see compression affecting these two failures at all.  I'm sure
> it plays a major role in other catastrophic failures, but for these
> failures, I'm guessing the only role higher compression plays is speed
> related.

Charley, with regard to the unique scenario you put forth earlier about
the Olds towing the F*rd, I agree that compression probably doesn't have
any effect on the rpm at which disintegration occurs.  Here, the engine is
basically free-wheeling, as the energy is coming from the Olds.  Has
anyone considered the role of piston size and material in high RPM
longevity?  Since the pistons are actually reversing direction twice per
engine revolution, I'd think this could be a failure prone area.  Picture
a piston made out of jello, then imagine how stressful sudden direction
changes manifest in vibration.  This leads to a point J2RKT@aol.com
brought up about preignition, which would seem to directly affect pistons,
although for this to occur, you'd need compression in the first place.
 
I'd say that an engine's "critical speed for destruction" would be a lot
different for an engine running on its own accord, under full load and
WOT.  If one pictures an end-on view of a 90 degree V type engine:
 
\         /     Crude ASCII aside, the resultant force vectors indicate
 \       /      that the exploding gases are generally acting downward on
  \ | | /       the crankshaft.  I would expect much higher main bearing 
   \| |/        loads on an engine running under some sort of load, with
  --+ +--       compression and ignition versus one just spinning because
                it was being towed and in gear.  Any other thoughts?
 
> In order to make 60 cycle (sorry Mr. Hertz) but this story took place
> many years ago, they ran the engines at something like 360 RPM instead
> of the usual 420 RPM.  And as it worked out, 360 RPM was the engines
> critical speed.
 
I imagine that this is some sort of large, in-line 6 diesel engine?
This is where the benefit of a V8 design comes in - it has the short
crankshaft of a 4 cylinder engine, but with twice as many cylinders for
power and smoothness.  Large displacement in-line 6's and 8's have
tremendous problems with crankshaft vibration at higher rpm's; witness the
soon to be discontinued 6's by Merc*des and B&W, their largest engines
have piston sizes in the 3.5" range, which is about the limit for that
configuration to work well.
 
Not all V8's were smooth.  From its inception in 1914, the original
Cadillac V8, while praised for smoothness and tractability, had a rough
period that occurred at about 2000 rpm.  Early V8's basically used a 4
cylinder crankshaft (180 degree throws) and despite meticulous balancing
of the reciprocating assemblies, the roughness persisted.  It wasn't until
1921 that Cadillac introduced an inherently balanced V8, using (as now) a
two-plane crankshaft with integral balance weights.  I'm sure the
flat-crank V8, running only at its 2000 rpm critical speed, would not be
very happy for long.  Crankshaft harmonics shouldn't be a factor in
inherently balanced V8's.
 
>   Anyway.... The laws of physics dictate that a reciprocating assembly
> can only be truely in balance at one engine speed.

J2RKT@aol.com, I'm having trouble picturing when an assembly, such as a
tire and wheel, can be in balance at one speed, and out of balance at
another.  Doesn't a state of balance indicate that all the participating  
forces cancel each other?  At very high speeds, tires distort (analogous
to long, flexible crankshafts), but these forces cannot be compensated for
by balancing, and are related to the basic engineering of these components.
 
Kevin Wong 

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:01:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

My 70 W30 currently has some p225 sears 24 inch jackstands on each corner.
Man that car handles solid as a rock!!! I have experienced very little tire
wear with this setup.

Mike
66 442
69 H/O
70 W30
71 442 Convt

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:03:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass supreme trunk(got it) 

 To the Doctor
     Ref your 70 Cutlass, I have an NOS front bumber $450.00 I have a
rechromed front one for a 72 Cutlass $400.00, I also have NOS original GM
Fenders but they are $1000.00 a pair. I have a set of used 70 Vista Cruiser
 fender for $500.00 rust free but they have the molding holes

Everett  401-435-7139

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:10:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Where Olds is today

> the car being an import-fighter.  Too bad Olds killed off the High Output
> Quad4 and W-40-series options.  They coulda used those in a
> Prelude-fighter.  Woulda beat the snot outta them, too!

I remember seeing a picture of a prototype Ch*v Cavalier.  The
accompanying text claimed it had a 190bhp variant of the 'Twin Cam', a
descendant of the Quad 4! 
 
Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:16:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
> 
> My 70 W30 currently has some p225 sears 24 inch jackstands on each corner.
> Man that car handles solid as a rock!!! I have experienced very little tire
> wear with this setup.
> 
> Mike
> 66 442
> 69 H/O
> 70 W30
> 71 442 Convt

Like a rock? I think I will not comment. :)

Danny

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:13:26 -0400
Subject: Re: CHAT GROUP 

Todd,
  A very commendable idea (isn't there something like this going on at a
#dalnet address, I've been soooo busy). I would be pleased to add my 5 mil
worth in such a forum. As I'm about to switch over from freeloading on my
roomates computer to use of one of my own in the near future, I am not at
liberty to download powwow (powdown?) at this time. Further problems arise
from my schedule. 40 hrs per plus working on my masters degree after work
leaves me only sufficient time to read my voluminous Oldsmobile mail, which
must be done as often as possible (ya snooze--ya lose, right group?).
Otherwise count me in!

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Have duct tape will travel.

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:25:28 -0400
Subject: cam specs

Anybody know the camshaft specs for an 87 307Y?  How about a late 70's 350?
I'd 
like to know where I'm starting from to know how radical to go.

Pat

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:26:51 -0400
Subject: 200-4R

Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?

Pat

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:32:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

Mike,
That comment is awful close to bordering on a placque removing instrument 
sometimes used for cleaning Oldsmobile parts.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:42:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R 

At 10:26 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?
>
>Pat


After about $1500.00 in performace upgrades it might.>

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (william goodnight)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:39:44 -0400
Subject: Mexican workmanship 

I will shortly report to all of you on the quality of Mike Aldana's metal
work.  I recently took my front and rear bumpers from my '49 Olds to him for
chrome.  He also had a rear fender gravel shield repaired and polished and
it came out super.  I will be picking up my chrome next week in Calexico,
CA. where he lives.  If the quality is right you won't find a better bargain.  

I was led to his service since I know that labor prices and environmental
laws are what make U.S. chrome so expensive.  At less than 1/2 the price of
domestic prices I am willing to take a chance.  I will keep you posted!

 
Bill Goodnight
idaholc@primenet.com
Boise, Idaho

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:49:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R

prlmteed@idcnet.com wrote:
> 
> Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?
> 
> Pat

Not for very long. A 455 puts out over 500 lb-ft of torque which is
about 200 lb-ft over what the 200 is rated. You might be able to beef it
up in some way, though in the long run it would be cheaper to find a
TH-400 or TH-350 and go from there. 

Danny

------------------------------

From: KUBALEK@uwplatt.edu
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:51:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R

I've read in Hot Rod that a stock 200-4R didn't last long behind a mild 3.8
Turbo.

Eric Kubalek
'72 98

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:04:20 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile on DALnet

Why is it everytime I look for you guys on DALnet, nobody is there?  Does
everyone turn in early?  I am wanting to chat with everyone concerning
selling my '70 4-4-2 W-30 Convert.  See my next post........

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:13:55 -0400
Subject: '70 4-4-2 W-30

Hey, it's me again..I have decided to finally sell my '70 4-4-2 W-30
Convert.  I know I have put this on the list before, but this time I have
made up my mind...<:-(
If you don't remember what it was like...I will remind you.
1970 4-4-2 W-30 Convertible.
All original (except paint...painted in 80's?)
Red with Black interior (both great shape)
New exhaust with tips
W-27 rear-end
Multi car show winner (small time)
Used for the production of the model by the Danbury Mint Co.
Only 264 made!
I don't have a set price, but am taking the highest offer..(reasonable)
Located in Moberly Missouri,  50 miles north of Jefferson City Mo.
email me if you are interested or have any ?'s

Thanks!

T Cleeton
'70 442 W-30 Convert. 'ol orange'

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:48:31 -0400
Subject: Re: 65 F-85 

Jerry,
  Realize that "sitting" for seven years (plus?) is only partially a good
thing because unused=unloved. Depending on overall wear and tear $2500 may be
slightly high, but to illustrate, let's go back a year. ATTENTION
OLDSMOBILERS: (too loud, sorry) here is yet another story of the rocket
reborn.

  Back in May 1996 I was looking for a daily driver/restorer in Chicago's
"Tradin' Times" The first car I looked at was a '67 Delmont 88 for $1200. The
rust was virtually crawling around under the paint but the machinery was well
maintained. I hemmed and hawed about whether I should take it just for
transportation. Fortunately for me, someone else bought it. Next car: mint
green 1965 Dynamic 88 four door hard top with 74k miles for something like
$1600. (I always preferred the low-profile cars to the built for speed models
like C*m*r* or Ch*rg*r ...) I brought my brother the auto body man (educated
but still amateur) on the next viewing. What little rust there was (car was
ca. condition 4-5) was only in patches along the bottom and only one small
area that might require addition of metal. Furthermore we established that
there were no rust holes in the floor (really quite solid). I bought it on
April 4.

  The only thing was that handling kinda stunk. Apparently it had sat for a
substantial time and the upper control arm grommets on one side had rotted
away. Add to that balding bias tires (I keep one for a spare!), and what may
be the wrong tie rod on one side and you end up with a real experience in
rainy driving on a narrow rural 2 lane-2 way with soft sholders! A few months
later I found out the hard way that the front brake lines were rotted out
(another interesting time) not to mention that I still need shocks and
probably springs on all four wheels (coming from Fusick's). Add to that the
fact that the oil pans from the circa 1965 era have drain plugs that require
a special tool (something akin to a tor-ex tool), and replacing the oil pan
requires lifting the engine up (VERY labor intensive, so I had my mechanic
replace the bad mounts too) and the only replacement to be had at short
notice was a chrome (with bad shocks, think about it!) pan which Forest City
Auto parts ordered for me.

  Other problems: windshield and rear window gaskets shot (rwg is literaly
petrified!); rear window ledge needs to be replaced; current weather has
forced me to decide that I definitely require some manner of rear window
defog/defrost; widshield wipers work, but problem with window wash pump/jets
(no squirt, ever); front bench seat is probably worn out. Furthermore, I
needed to have my rear wheel cylinders rebuilt (I even learned to do this in
high school) but no rebuild kits were available for the original cylinders so
I had the wheel cyliners replaced. If anyone knows a repro source of wheel
cylinder rebuild kits I would gladly have the stock cylinders back...

  In conclusion, Jerry, if I had it all to do over, I wouldn't change a
thing. Just from recent Oldsmobile conversations I've learned that my 330cid
is physically bigger that a ch*vy 350 and that it has a forged (therefore
possibly the strongest ever) crankshaft. My car is constantly talked about by
my coworkers (does anyone tire of this?). Quite frankly I derive an
undescribable peasure from driving an antique ((way over the limit)) car that
I am learning to maintain with my own hands.

  Back to Jerry's questions; as far as $2500, realise that original rubber
parts are probably screaming to be replaced, not to mention other initial
maintenance costs. As for me, I consider my $1600 well spent (maybe this is a
sign that I need a psychiatrist) because although there were a few problems,
I did get what I consider to be my money's worth. From what I've heard here
recently, a 455 will fit just fine but the a/c compressor, if present, might
require some ingenuity. Someone may correct me, but a TH400 should fit a 1965
F-85 just fine (I honestly don't know what the TH designation is on my
automatic three speed). And finally, if you don't buy it, I might!
If it runs and looks as good as you say then it would probably be a good buy
at about $1800...

Happy Oldsmobiling
And thank you everybody, for teaching me 70% of what I know.

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

World peace is only a roll of duct tape away (fixes everything)!

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:50:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Adjustable Valves 

In a message dated 97-02-26 10:06:57 EST, you write:

<< No. No Olds motors after 1965 have adjustable valves (or an adjustable
 valvetrain).
  >>

As always, snippets of lore catch my eye. A pregnant pause. So, Dr Barry,
were there particular pre-1966 engines that had adjustable valves? [ Of
course the question that I am really asking is; do I have them in my 1965
330?] I know, I know. I really should know more about this great beast that
I've been hauling around in...but let's face it; thats why I subscribe
oldsmobile...so you guys (great as you are) can tell me things that I am too
lazy (or too cheap to buy the books) to look up the information myself! 

P.S. That solliloquoy does not invalidate the question!

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Duct tape...for a better tomorrow.

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:59:05 -0400
Subject: Heads up.

I am looking at some extensive head work. I would like to get some
opinions on what my best course of action would be. My current situation
is a set of C castings that need valve guides and valves, seals, seats
and I was thinking some mild port work. My question is should I do the
work on these heads or find another casting (K,D,F or E) I have access
to a set of Ks and Es. The Fs I have are going on my W-30. I've heard
that Cs are good castings but never really why.

Danny

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:56:24 -0400
Subject: Re: GM Parts

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> I went to the Olds dealer today on my lunch break.  Turns out that one of
> my friends works at the parts counter.  He brought out all the old books
> and plopped 'em down on the counter for me to look at.  I tried to get him
> to let me sneak out with them, but he wouldn't go for that. :-(  I must have
> drooled a gallon!  I can't believe the wealth of knowledge that's contained
> in those books!  I mean, I know that the majority of those parts are
> discontinued, but just the pictures... oooh, just the exploded diagrams
> illustrating every single component on the car are invaluable!  I would
> LOVE to have one of those books.  I looked for an order form, but no luck.
> Lots of binder order forms, though.  I wonder if it's still possible to
get them
> from GM...
> 
> Anyway, what I was originally going to say is that I finally found the Coil
> Spring Insulators I was looking for.  This is the donut-shaped rubber piece
> that goes between the top of the coil spring and the coil spring mount on
> the body.  If you hear a rubbing sound coming from your trunk occaisionally
> when cornering or accelerating from a stop, these rotten things might be
> the cause.  Mine were so rotten that they just crumbled into dust.  They are
> still available from GM (and not at any of the parts stores that I
checked) for
> $3.51 ea.  Too bad I didn't own my Olds in 1987.  I could have picked up a
> NOS O.A.I. hood for $241.00 ;)
> 
> -Blaine
> '72 Cutlass Supreme

Dear Blaine,

	I buy most of my GM parts thru a dealer that sells at wholesale
and charges low shipping.  His telephone number is 1.800.747.7004 .  I
have bought many parts over the years and saved $$$.

					John Foster

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:56:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 79 Cutlass Ralleye Pack

At 02:50 PM 2/26/97 -0400, JOSEPH_W. BARKER wrote:
>> Does anyone know the market value for a new 79 Cutlass Ralleye Guage
>> Cluster Pack?  A guesstimate would be appreciated as well if you are not
>> sure.
>> 
>>                         Gerald Hughes
> 
>Maybe around $75-120?  Anybody else's opinion would be appreciated.

Sounds high to me. I usually sell the ones I get for $35 average shape to
$50 very good shape.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:55:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Many Thanks

Jeff I saw the car you are intrested in and I did notice it had #4 heads.
Someone here said it should have 1's. And from what I have seen these guys
know their stuff about these cars!  Maybe that is something you should look
at when you check it out. It might even give you a bargining point if you
get real serious about the car. Maybe you should get them to give you the
correct casting # for the block to see if the whole engine has been changed
or just the heads. I agree with you that it sure did look original. I
thought it would be a great ride. 
Good luck, Walter

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:53:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

ANTIQOLDS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob
>   Starfire name was brought back to use in 61 as a midyear model in a
> converable only, base car had powerwindows drivers powerseat power ant power
> streering full leather interior bucket seat aond console, all other stuff was
> options, There were only 7600 made in 61,
>   The alum trim is real  tuff to come by, there in a guy in Indiana who
> refinishes it and I understand he does a nice job.
>   Pricing of these cars is difficult but if you find one I can help you
> determine a fair price
> 
> Everett   61 Starfire 48,000 orig miles has original top and everything

Everett,

Guys like you make me sick.  I have lusted after one of those things for
many many years & there you go getting me riled up again.  It jsut isn't
fair.

BTW, thanks for the nice description.  I didn't realize that it was '65
before there was a 4-speed.  I did know about the Strato-bench seat in
1966.  It was probably big news then, but a little bit of a
disappointment today.  

I'd just love a '61.  What is a real world price on a good #3 car w/out
cancer?  Are you saying the complete interior was leather like the Mark
II Continentals?

What would a fair set of '62 chrome/aluminum be worth?  What would it
cost to repair a set w/the usual dings?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:08:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R

At 10:26 PM 2/26/97 -0400, prlmteed@idcnet.com wrote:
>Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?

Well if it can stand all the power from a GN Turbo Buick V6 I don't see why
not.....? 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:10:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

I think this 1950's list is a great idea, but i think we already have a problem.
i noticed in the past couple of messages people talking about '61, '62,
and '65 olds' and refering to them as "These early convertibles"....
This is what i think the guy was refering to when he said "those kids
don't remember what a 1950 olds looks like" (sorry i forgot your name).

the 1960's are not early cars! 

i bought my second oldsmobile by age 19 (a 1947 and a 1948 olds)...
this is "early" but even that is a risky term.

the 1950's list i think it is a good idea, but what are the "cut off dates"


basically, the cars from the 1890's-late 1950's dont get the attention that
the cars from 1960's through the present get on the list.

If there is no "cut off date" to limit the postings, i think the list might
losesome of it's "glitter"

if you look at the time span and compare the type's of re: on this list,
a bulk of the re:'s are from 1960-early 1980's  --a span of about 20
years.

b]w
i wanna join the "early olds" list once it is established what
early is.

- --jj

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:11:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R

At 11:51 PM 2/26/97 -0400, KUBALEK@uwplatt.edu wrote:
>I've read in Hot Rod that a stock 200-4R didn't last long behind a mild 3.8
>Turbo.

Interesting. That's not what I read on the GN/T-Type mailing list. The
200-4R seems like the Rodney Dangerfield of tranny's. It gets no respect ;) 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:21:59 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions 

In a message dated 97-02-21 22:32:29 EST, you write:

<< Sir,
 
 	Oldsmobile was sued for putting chevy engines in 1973 cutlass's
 when olds could not keep up with consumer demand(in the olds engine
 department).  
 
 					John Foster >>
Yes they were, but there was more to it in that they were still calling them
Rocket motors (still had the olds stuff on them, was the problem).  I think I
remember correctly (from my reading last night) that the Olds brochures even
had this noted in it in some way, but Olds. execs. kept hiding, and trying to
cover it up of sorts, and that made people even angrier (in the press).  

Ford has recently had some problems with this also (Ford motor in a Mercury,
or other way around), but this was just within the last few years.  Got
tagged real heavy from what I heard (Ford employee that lived next door when
I lived in Findlay, Ohio., he worked at Ford's Lima, Oh. engine plant).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:25:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

also, those that say my '60's olds is getting lonely on this list...

look how many 1960's olds were "stired up" just from that comment!

now if i said "my 47 and 48 olds' are getting lonely", i'ld be lucky if there
is one or 2 owners that have an olds in those years...  let alone the models
(dynamic 76 2 dr. fastback, and dynamic 66 4-dr. sedan respectively)

it seems to be the same way for any vehicle 1959 and earlier.

this is just a guess, but maybe that is why NAOC has a cut off limit
of 1964.  (National Antique Olds Club).

maybe the "new list" follows some of the NAOC guidelines to establish
the list group???  just an idea.

- --jj

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:08:47 -0400
Subject: One question...  (was: ARP main studs) 

In a message dated 97-02-22 20:05:01 EST, you write:

<< >I was torquing the mains down on my engine block to check clearance
 >with plasitgage. On the second main the brand new 1/2 inch ARP stud
 >snapped in half.  After alot of cursing and scratching my head I finally
 >decided to have my torque wrench checked.  Turns out when set at 120ft
 >lbs. It was torquing 180ft. lbs.. My question is this.. Yall think the
 >first set of studs I torqued to 180ft. lbs. can be reused?  They didnt
 >break. These studs are abit pricey.  Hopefully I will only have to buy
 >the one that broke.  Anyone have any experience with this? 
 >
 >rottin@coil.com
 >
 >
 >
 1. If they are still new, as in, this is the first time they were used
 (especially if very recently purchased), return them from whence they came.
 Including the broken one.  Tell them you want a new set, as you are no
 longer confident that the set they shipped to you was from a satisfactory
 lot.  The trouble is more likely a bad production batch, than destruction
 from 'over torqueing.'
 
 1a. Do not reuse them in any case.  It really is more likely a bad batch of
 parts, than a case of Charles Atlas at the torque wrench.  If they have
 faulty heat treatment, or material specifications, the likelyhood is that
 they all do.
 
 2. I believe the manufacturer would like to have them returned.  I know that
 if I were manufacturing high Grade fasteners, and had one fail in the field,
 I would want it back, and all that were sold with it. I would want to know
 why it failed!  If the retailer balks, ask for the manufacturers name and
 phone number, and then go direct.  If the manufacturer balks then come back
 here and scream bloody murder.
 
 3. If it were me, and I was 'stuck' with them, I would call up one of the
 local Universities, that has an engineering department, and run the
 remaining studs thru their tensil strength machine; so see what the quality
 of the part really is.  It should take a minimum of 27,000 pounds raw pull
 to cause a 0.50" Gr. 8 fastener to fail.  One time we pulled some 0.50"
 Allen brand, Allen head cap screws apart, and they stayed together past
 30,000 pounds.  I no longer remember when they failed, but it was in the
 30,000 to 40,000 pounds range.  Also if I were pulling them apart, I would
 want to pull both ends of the one that failed apart too.
 
 3a. I don't believe that 180 '/#s of torque comes anywhere near equating to
 this value.  
 
 I would not tell them anything else, but I would be a 'just a bit' irate.
 
 The Wiz >>

Yeah, I understand what you mean here, and in some sense, you're right, 180
lbs. is not excessive, but one thing came to mind.  Bear in mind I have never
seen these particular studs before, so I'm asking a question here first.  Are
these bolts supposed to have some type of "yeild" or stretch to them when put
on?  There are bolts out there which are designed to "give" some at the
proper torque, and I'm not sure you would want these in a crank bearing
support, but my Kawasaki 750 (bike) has 2 bolts down inside the head/valve
area which are this type of bolt.  This is a bolt that holds the head on in
the chain galley area (front and rear of the motor) where there aren't any
studs going through it.

If they were his type (torque to yield) then they very well could break when
applying too much torque.  If they are not (this type), then yes, there would
most likely be a problem (heat treatment of the bolts possibly, or material
specs are the most likely, as you stated).

Chris Ruper

BTW, these torque to yield bolts can be expected to break when too much force
is applied, and basically, when you torque them, you are stretching them, and
it is suggested that you replace the bolts when you have removed them.  Also,
if I am incorrect on any of this, please let me know as it's been a while
since I've dealt with some of this stuff on a regular basis (5 yrs., at
least).

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 03:25:19 -0400
Subject: Junkyard 1970 Cutlass S...was a '72. 

	Hey guys!
Well, I went back to the junkyard to get the scoop on what I *thought* was
a '72 CS, (I remembered it having three taillights on each side...it only
has two, so it's a '70).  I guess that engine with the #6 heads isn't a
transplant after all.  Anyway, if anybody is looking for '70 parts, there
is still some good stuff.  Blain has dibs on the console/shifter, but
there are still some good parts on the car.  Front and rear bumper
are probibly usable (if anybody needs them let me know and I'll check them
out when I get that stuff for Blain), it still has most of the A/C stuff,
but the compressor and such are stuffed in the trunk.  It also has a nice
set of SS wheels (15" if I remember correctly) with all the center caps
and trim rings.  The meatball at the parts counter swears that they are
the original wheels for the car, but I've hear that 15" wheels were'nt
available until the mid-70s.  Either way, he wants $30 a wheel.  With some
polish on the trim rings and some cleanup, they would look pretty good I
think.  I think all the badges are still on it, at least I remember the
hood "S" being there, and I think the fender ones are too.  
	The engine looks like it's all there, but it's hard to tell since
half of it is in the trunk.  Oh, and I'll also check to see if it has a
posi, but it seems unlikely given the fact that it was a 2bbl car.

	Anyway, if anybody is looking for anything specific, let me know
and I'll see if it's on there.  



				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98   

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #539
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