To:	"DDA.RFC-822=oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca/P=ABTLAB/A=ABTLAB/C=US" @ 
SSWGATE
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #556


oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 11 March 1997       Volume 01 : Number 556

Axle Code
Re: Parts Swapability
Re: seat cover mfrers?
Re:Axle shaft and oil seal
Still in Stock -Reply
Finally, Olds content in Car Craft
Re: Accident
Re: Shift Plate Indicator
Re:Axle shaft and oil seal
Re: Brake parts
Re: Finally, Olds content in Car Craft
Re: Brake parts
More Timing Q's
ADMIN: Security Advisory
Re: More Timing Q's
Re: Brake parts
Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory
Where is everyone
Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: 67 parking lights
Re: '92 Achieva w/H.O. modifications
no mail
Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: Parts Swapability (brake shoes)
Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: Axle shaft and oil seal
Re: Dash removal-reinstall
Re: seat cover mfrers?
Re: 307 again
Hot New Parts
Re: Axle shaft and oil seal
Internet Thought for the Week (Non-Olds)
Re: Extra Capacity Oil Pans
Re: 442 W-Dirty
Re: Seat cover mfrers.
Re: Subject: Re: T-3 Inquiry
Re: turbos/RPM stress
I'll be back
test (don't bother reading, just no mail from list in many hours)
Die and sell oil pans
1981 Delta 88
ADMIN: Back in Business
Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
1987 Calais GT
Re: Bad News from yesterday
Re: Well wishes *NOT*
Dennis Casteele
Re: jack color for '69
Re: Timing Q's
'66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible
newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory
newbie Cutlass Ciera question
GM RPO books for free
Brake Hardware: Good Idea! [was Re: Parts Swapability (brake shoes)]
Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question
Re: 67 parking lights
Re: 1987 Calais GT
Re: '66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible
Re: '66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chuck kapigian <chuck@mhbc.hbocvan.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:38:17 -0400
Subject: Axle Code

I was wondering if anybody has knowledge of this axle code { 2 AF O 070
}. It is from an '83 Hurst/Olds. I have a Chassis Service Manual for all
'83 Oldsmobiles but it is not in there. It displays three pages of
charts of different varieties, but not the code I posses. Thanks

- -Chuck

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:53:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts Swapability

>Hey everybody, I've pretty much been lurking lately. Just a quick question:
>I am searching for a set of rear brake shoes for my 1965 Olds 98, but no
>store in Dallas has them, nor does JC Whitney. I was thinking about
>contacting Kanter, and maybe Fusicks if necessary. Does anyone know of a
>set of rear shoes from another car that could be used? I would like any
>help, thanks!
>Dominic
>
>     One rude boy can only take so much.
>     He's had enough and he's ready to ruck.
>     He's an angry young man but he's only a boy.
>     He's running down the street shouting "Oi! Oi! Oi!"
>                       -The Grown-Ups, 'Rampage'

I have the same car (well, not the "same" car, but a '65 98 ;-)

I never had trouble finding them. My local parts store did have rears in
stock, but had to get the fronts from a warehouse. PepBoys parts stores had
the fronts in stock, but the rears were in a warehouse! Go figger...

You need to find a better parts store!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:48:22 -0400
Subject: Re: seat cover mfrers?

Jeff,

When you redid your seats, did you replace the foam?  If so than where
did you get the foam from?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:54:39 -0400
Subject: Re:Axle shaft and oil seal

From: KarlAunan@aol.com

>Mr. Paulison was kind enough to give the short course on changing rear diff
>fluid. I believe I've located the drain plug, but couldn't budge it. It is a
>plug with a recess for a square 3/8" key, right? Just like the 3/8" drive on
>a socket wrench. Again, is there a tool for this, Craftsman didn't have -any-
>kind of square keys, or square key bits, or square key sockets. I can guess
>that a lot of you out there probably just use the drive key of a 3/8" socket
>wrenches, but I would prefer to find the proper tool (the drive keys tend to
>have edges that are subtly rounded, and I would rather not have the wrench
>slip out of the plug when I have 1 ton of car suspended above me!)

Let me know if you find a key.  I tried the same thing last fall on my
442.  The ratchet extention has slightly rounded edges and would'nt
bite the plug's 3/8" hole enough to budge it loose.  I gave up and
figured I'd try again this spring.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:59:20 -0400
Subject: Still in Stock -Reply

>My most recent trip to the Olds dealer led me to some pieces that are
>still available from Olds fopr a '71-'72 Cutlass, FYI
>power steering pump kit
>fan shroud
>exhaust manifold tab locks
>firewall grommets

Sweet!  I need all those things.  How 'bout some part numbers?

BTW, the part ª for those Rear Coil Spring Insulators is:  1366500

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:11:07 -0400
Subject: Finally, Olds content in Car Craft

I was amazed to see an article in the new issue of Car Craft
on restoring your OAI air cleaner assembly...

...until I got to the part where they applied the non-OAI
silver 455 Rocket decal in the flapper lid assembly, with a caption
stating that it was optional for OAI cars...

Several of the pictures do clearly show the 3/8" hole in the lip of the
snorkle, that was discussed here awhile back.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:05:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Accident

Hi all,

Went to doctor on Friday and found out that I did get a little hurt
as a result of the accident.  It seems my back did get a little
wrenched and I do have a mild whiplash.  I guess I never realized how
important head rests/shoulder harnesses are!  I am not in treatment and
hope that this whole nightmare will soon end.

On the car front:  Mr. Nakasone (the driver of the car that started
this whole mess) claims no responsibility.  I guess I could have
figured that one out.  I was talking with his agent on Friday and
he wanted to see my car.  I gave him a one chance look at the car.
I brought it to the dealer and is on display today (Monday) only.
He better get a good look....  It saddens me to look at the damage.

Accordingly to agent, he says that noone would probably find me at
fault.  However, those are words I have heard before.  I guess that
since I am low man on the totem pole with regards to insurance, they'll
probably try to screw around with me.  We'll see...

Later....

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:47:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Shift Plate Indicator

>>You make them right, and you won't have any trouble with sales.
>
>        Sounds good. Looks like we'll go ahead and do them.

Never tried this kind of thing myself, but as restoration parts
go, wouldn't the rule be If You Build It They Will Come? I mean,
if you do a halfway-decent reproduction of the original, and you
(*ahem*) get licensing permission from GM to do it, what's to stop
you from supplying outfits like Year One or J.C. Whitney with your
product? These companies aren't being supplied by Fortune-500
companies making this stuff, after all, and people are telling you
that they've searched around and found no one else making this part.
Just my $.02, of course...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:56:28 -0400
Subject: Re:Axle shaft and oil seal

>>I can guess
>>that a lot of you out there probably just use the drive key of a 3/8" socket
>>wrenches, but I would prefer to find the proper tool (the drive keys tend to
>>have edges that are subtly rounded, and I would rather not have the wrench
>>slip out of the plug when I have 1 ton of car suspended above me!)

Well, as others have said, that _is_ the proper wrench, but you might want
to use a longer handle -- say, a 1/2"-drive with an adaptor. Despite its
appearance, I've never had problems getting the plug unscrewed, perhaps
because the inner end of it is immersed in an oil bath all its life. Not
like, say, trying to unscrew a sending-unit plug from the side of a
25-year-old cylinder head. Good luck there.

>>Incidentally, thanks to someone for suggesting swapping the
>>washer-pump-to-window-jets hoses, now I know I just have a clogged window
>>jet. Gee, just when I am about to solve the washer pump problem....
>
>I liked the logic of switching the hoses around too.  Sometimes the simple
>is the best.

Gee, thanks.  :-)  Coincidentally I had been trying to explain the same
concept that morning to a customer who'd got two printer setups, one balky,
and who couldn't figure out how to determine whether the printer or its
cable was at fault...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:19:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Brake parts

He does anyone know where I can find a "new" caliper mount.  It seems
that between Year One and Oldsmobile USA, I can almost piece together
front disc brakes with the exception of a caliper mount.  Any other
sources?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:52:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Finally, Olds content in Car Craft

In a message dated 97-03-10 15:17:53 EST, you write:

<< I was amazed to see an article in the new issue of Car Craft
 on restoring your OAI air cleaner assembly... >>
Its a reprint of an old Muscle Car Classics article.  I have the same article
from
1988 or 89 of that magazine.  I will look it up, it actually has more details
then what CC reprinted


W Machines

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:59:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Brake parts

At 04:19 PM 3/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
>He does anyone know where I can find a "new" caliper mount.  It seems
>that between Year One and Oldsmobile USA, I can almost piece together
>front disc brakes with the exception of a caliper mount.  Any other
>sources?

That "Caliper Mount" is in fact the much-sought-after disc-brake spindle.
Aside from that and the combination valve, yes, just about everything else
can be bought new or rebuilt. Though I don't believe you can find one new,
there are people advertising these spindles for sale, and they usually go
for $50-$100 just for the spindles.

There is a brake specialty place who claims to have a completely new setup
to do this conversion, but I don't know what their source is for the new
spindles and the combination valves, or if they are in fact just
rebuilt/refurbished used pieces.

You may also be able to use "dropped-spindles", which are designed for
lowering the front of the car; if they are designed to work with disc
brakes, then they must have the proper mounts. These aftermarket units are
advertised in most hot-rod type magazines (though they may be listed under a
Ch*vy Ch*v*ll* application...)

Finally, you may be able to piece together a system from parts still
available over the counter at your local parts store or through the GM
dealer; check their prices before you take advantage (or is that the other
way around...?) of the convenience that Year One and Olds USA provide by
listing all the pieces in one place.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:24:21 -0400
Subject: More Timing Q's

>>> <WMACHINES@aol.com> 03/10/97 12:28pm >>>
In a message dated 97-03-10 13:16:09 EST, you write:

>Yes your engine will run at 12.  As timing degree is advance, so is engine
>RPM. AS for 12 degrees, the engine will run faster so you will have to
>adjust the carb accordingly, such as reducing the idle speed.

OK, that makes sense.  But the problem I have is that at 4 deg. where it
now sits, my distributor is turned about an 1/8th of a turn clockwise.  If I
advanced it to 12 degrees, my distributor would be turned almost a 1/4
turn.  Could my distributor be one tooth off?

> If you look at your timing tab is reads as follow looking from the front of
>the engine compartment.

>          12  8  4  0  4
>          Before    l   After       0 represents Top Dead Center or the
>piston is at the very
>top of the cylinder.   Before is before the ignition stroke and After is
>after the ignition
>stroke.   My car runs 18 BTDC intial with 36 degrees total.  The total
>timing comes in with the car at higher RPM.  My 36 degrees comes in at
>1800RPM and I have it limited to that it goes no higher.

Hmm...  How do you measure that, when the marks only go to 12?
At what RPM are you supposed to measure BTDC timing?
Does the type of gas you use have an effect on timing?  For example, if I
switch from 89 octane to 92 octane, would I need to adjust my timing for
optimum performance?  And if so, in which way?

Thanks for the help.  The lights are starting to come on ;)

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:37:35 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Security Advisory

The message of a sexual nature sent last night from an account at Montana
State University was apparently the result of a member of this list not
having logged off their account properly and another unknown person taking
advantage of the situation to behave in a juvenile matter.

I forwarded the message to the postmaster at MSU and it in turn was
forwarded to their security administrator. They considered it to be a
violation of the university's sexual harassment policy (their
interpretation, not mine) and action was considered against the account
holder. This could have resulted in either civil or academic sanctions
being taken against him.

The security officer has advised me that he has interviewed the (former)
list member and is satisfied that he did not send the message. The account
holder has apologized to me and I extend that apology to the list. I
suspect he has had a very bad day. He regrets the incident and has asked
to be allowed to rejoin the list.  I am inclined to let him do so,
provided there are not significant objections from the membership.

It is unfortunate that a careless oversight could potentially have
resulted in such serious consequences. Let it serve as a lesson for all of
us in the importance of being vigilant in the use of email accounts in a
shared environment.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:31:17 -0400
Subject: Re: More Timing Q's

[SNIP]

>At what RPM are you supposed to measure BTDC timing?

Remember, you have to disconnect the vacuum advance hose to the distributor
and plug it up. RPM won't matter too much at this point. Advance is linear
on the markings, so you could eye-ball it if you need more than what is
indicated.

>Does the type of gas you use have an effect on timing?  For example, if I
>switch from 89 octane to 92 octane, would I need to adjust my timing for
>optimum performance?  And if so, in which way?
>

You should adjust your timing for your desired performance and put in gas
that does not ping at these settings. I opt for best performance (more
advance) and always put in 90+ octane. I want the fuel cleaners that come
in the high octane stuff so I don't have to add it all the time.

>Thanks for the help.  The lights are starting to come on ;)
>
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:41:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Brake parts

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> He does anyone know where I can find a "new" caliper mount.  It seems
> that between Year One and Oldsmobile USA, I can almost piece together
> front disc brakes with the exception of a caliper mount.  Any other
> sources?
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Chris you can get that from Stainless Steel Brake Corporation. They are
$120 a piece, but they are brand new.

Stainless Steel Brake Corporation
1-800-448-7722

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:42:36 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> He regrets the incident and has asked to be allowed to rejoin the list.
> I am inclined to let him do so, provided there are not significant
> objections from the membership.

No objection here.

...provided he locates the real perpretrator
and forwards a JPEG of his battered body.   ;)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:37:41 -0400
Subject: Where is everyone

Boy

        I can't believe a week ago I was fighting though 83-100 messages
daily, not one this morning to even look at.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:52:46 -0400
Subject: Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK wrote:
>
> Please excuse this newbie question if it has been answered before.
> I am about to purchase an Olds tomarrow and I think its uncommon if not a
> bit rare. Its a 90 Olds Cutlass Ciera XC special edition. It is the only one
> I have ever saw. White w/ red bucket seat interior. Gauge/tach package,
> windows/locks, cassette, console, ac, tilt leather wheel. Original right
> down to its white hub caps. It is a 60k mile well taken care of car. It is
> 3.3 *non* od automatic powered.
> * is it uncommon(rare?)
> * what is included in the XC package?
> * is the 3 speed automatic common in these?
> * any production figures available?
> * Whats the difference between the 3.3 and the 3.8?
> BTW- it also has the FE3 suspension.
>
> Thanks, FRank

Personally, I've never seen one.  Is the 'XC' package factory
installed?  The "Setting The Pace" book lists no XC Ciera model for any
year.  Toronados (...oes?) used to have an XC package...

The 3.3 versus the 3.8: about 5 horsepower (3.3 = 160, 3.8 = 165).
Again, "Setting The Pace" lists the 3.3V6 ans the _only_ optional engine
on the Ciera, with the 3.8 only optional on the Delta 88's.  Sounds like
a nice ride, tho.

- --

+-----------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8

 adcockjk@erols.com
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason

+-----------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:14:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 67 parking lights

Thanks for putting me right Bob & Greg. Soylent Green's parking lights -do-
go out when the headlights come on. I had seen it happen, but had not thought
about it at the time.

So it should be possible, in theory, to alter the switch so that the parking
lights stay on. Sorry, briefly toying with an idea.

Karl Aune
Chicago IL
1965 Dynamic 88

"Soylent Green is made of people. It's people!"  --Yeah, and it'll be the
death of me!

------------------------------

From: James Pindar <jp@webspan.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:28:52 -0400
Subject: Re: '92 Achieva w/H.O. modifications

Greg Yonge wrote:
>
> Anyone know of any performance modifications that can be made to a '92
Achieva with the H.O. engine? Greg, does your engine race?

------------------------------

From: IBDEA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:32:24 -0400
Subject: no mail

hi all,
      haven't received any mail since this morning. just want to see how far
this bounces
             thanks
                    BOB PETERS

------------------------------

From: jeff antonucci <antonj@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:42:40 -0400
Subject: Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

Frank,

I don't have any numbers, but it seems pretty rare.  The Cieras had
International and GT editions with the FE3, sport interior etc., but I
thought all these had the 3.8 with overdrive.  The 3.8 is probably more
powerful.  A non OD in a 90 seems strange and rare to me.

The 3.8 is/was a buick motor, I think the 3.3 is a Ch*vy.  You can
contact Oldsmobile to get production figures.

Jeff.
'70 442 Conv.
'91 Quad 442 W-41

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:52:45 -0400
Subject: Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

In a message dated 97-03-10 08:09:52 EST, you write:

>  90 Olds Cutlass Ciera XC special edition. It is the only one
>  I have ever saw. White w/ red bucket seat interior. Gauge/tach package,
>  windows/locks, cassette, console, ac, tilt leather wheel. Original right
>  down to its white hub caps. It is a 60k mile well taken care of car. It is
>  3.3 *non* od automatic powered.

I remember these from when I worked for the dealer here in town.  I think
they came in charcoal gray and black, too.  They have a stripe that runs
around the bodyside molding, starts out red at the front and ends orange at
the back, or something like that.  I remember the gray one being particularly
unattractive.  Didn't think too much of the black either, what with the black
wheels and blackwall tires.  Come to think of it, I think we got one of these
in as a trade at my dealership about a month ago.  A white one.

>  * is it uncommon(rare?)

I don't think so.  We had 6 or 8 of them when they were new.  I think they
came as coupes and sedans.

>  * what is included in the XC package?

Get ready...

from the 1990 Oldsmobile salesman's SPECS book...

B2E "XC Special Edition" Package - includes Painted Wheel Covers, Color-Keyed
to 3 Exterior Colors: 40 White, 15 Medium Gray Metallic and 41 Black; Special
Color Body Side and Fascia Rub Strip Molding Inserts; Special Black Paint
Treatment for Grille Bars, Belt Moldings, Roof Drip and Window Frame
Moldings, Lock Cylinders, Outside Mirrors, Mast Antenna and Door Handles with
Body Color Inserts; Special Silver Stripe Decals applied to Body Sides;
Special Front Door "XC Special Edition" Decals.  Also includes Floor Console
and Shifter, Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel; and Instrument Panel Rallye
Cluster (UB3).  (Floor Console and Shifter, and Leather-Wrapped Steering
Wheel are deleted from BWE when AM6 Seat is ordered.)  Available with AR9
Bucket Seat Trims 25 Dark Garnet Red or 24 Medium Slate Gray; or AM6 Divided
Bench Seat Trims 65 Dark Garnet Red or 64 Medium Slate Gray.  (N.A. with D90,
N91, QFF or Option Package 1SA............................$489.00

D90 is the Body Side Accent Stripe option
N91 is the Simulated Wire Wheel Disc option
QFF is the White Stripe Tire option
1SA is the "base car with standard equipment" option group

>  * is the 3 speed automatic common in these?

MX1 Automatic Transmission was the standard transmission and I would say it
is pretty common.

>  * any production figures available?

Maybe the Olds History Center could tell you how many Cieras where built with
this option code.  This option was available on the Cutlass Ciera S range:
Coupe J37AL, Sedan J69AL.  There were 2203 S coupes built and 54549 sedans.
 I remember having more SX sedans than coupes.

>  * Whats the difference between the 3.3 and the 3.8?

The biggest difference is that the 3.8 wasn't available in '90.  It was the
2.4 I4 or the 3.3.  Cieras used to offer the choice of a 2.8 V6 or the "big
car" 3.8, but they stopped that in '88.  My parents have a Cutlass Ciera SL
Coupe with the 3.8.  For '89 you had the choice of the 2.8 or the 3.3.  They
dropped the 2.8 option for '90.

>  BTW- it also has the FE3 suspension.

FE3 Level III Touring Car Ride and Handling Suspension System - consists of
Special Suspension Components and Special Steering Gear, plus Wheels,
Aluminum Styled with Locks and Tires, P215/60R14 Performance Steel-Belted
Radial-Ply, Blackwall - All-Season (N.A. with QFF, N91 or
LR8.............$505.

LR8 was the 2.5 L4 (Tech IV)

Paul

(and that BHap guy didn't think he could get any good information here!)

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:29:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts Swapability (brake shoes)

In a message dated 97-03-09 23:59:41 EST, you write:

<< Hey everybody, I've pretty much been lurking lately. Just a quick
question:
 I am searching for a set of rear brake shoes for my 1965 Olds 98, but no
 store in Dallas has them, nor does JC Whitney. I was thinking about
 contacting Kanter, and maybe Fusicks if necessary. Does anyone know of a
 set of rear shoes from another car that could be used? I would like any
 help, thanks!
 Dominic
  >>
Dominic,
 My recent repair experience has shown me that many 1965 models have the same
rear axle (at least use the same part ª for oil seal!) with the exception of
the J-88's. This suggests to me that most other models of the same year
should havethe same rear brake shoes. I am in no position to comment about
other years.

 I've been taking my 1965 Dynamic 88 to CarX for brake work. Especially
because I don't feel like staking my life and my car on my perception of
talent in the feild of brake systems. They have been able to provide me with
brake shoes, and did not say anything about any modifications, (although they
did install "brake hardware",very vague and somewhat disturbing). I can say
for certain that the rear wheel cylinders appropriate for most 1965 models is
available only from Kanter (and possibly a few other places, but not many!)

 Actually, I would think that the rear shoes should be more common, and that
if any are likely to be discontinued it would be the smaller front shoes. I
have to admit that I don't know the part ªs for the shoes that I use, but I
really should.

Just adding my spare change.

KA
Chicago,IL
1965 Dynamic 88

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:54:03 -0400
Subject: Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

> * Whats the difference between the 3.3 and the 3.8?

The 3.3, or '3300', was derived from the '3800'.  GM probably used a
reduced bore to achieve the smaller displacement.  The 3.3 should not be
confused with the 3.1, which is a stroked 2.8.  The latter two engines
are 60 degree V6's, and represent a separate family of engines from the
90 degree 3800.  By 1990, the 3800 had received a balance shaft to reduce
first order imbalances inherent in the unnatural 90 degree design; I'm
not sure if the 3300 was so equipped.  What was the last year for the 3.3?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:58:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Axle shaft and oil seal

In a message dated 97-03-10 01:13:06 EST, you write:

<< The Wiz

 P.S. I've got some duct tape for sale.  Not that sliver grey kind, but some
 in camoflage green, just in case you need to fix something and you don't
 want anyone to see it.
  >>

But Wiz, it's before objects are fixed that I don't want to see them! Case in
point: a 1965 Oldsmobile...

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Ad astra per aspera duct tapem.  (To the stars trough our dreams of duct
tape. (!?!))

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:52:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Dash removal-reinstall

In a message dated 97-03-10 00:26:43 EST, you write:

>  I dont have a
>  body or chassis manual for my car and I am wondering if anyone has some
>  advice.  Its looks pretty complicated and I'm not sure where to start in
>  order to take it apart correctly and do no further damage.

I looked at my '72 assembly manual.  It doesn't give anything specific, but
it looks like you would have to remove the whole pad assembly, and then
replace the piece you're talking about from the back and reinstall all of it.
 I have always thought that the removable part of the dash is in two pieces,
but it looks like you have to remove the whole thing to get the pieces apart.

Paul

------------------------------

From: jeff antonucci <antonj@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:59:46 -0400
Subject: Re: seat cover mfrers?

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> When you redid your seats, did you replace the foam?  If so than where
> did you get the foam from?
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Chris,

I've only done the rears so far, and I used some carpet underlayment
foam to make up for the compression of the old foam.  I sprayed some
Silicone on the foam to make the covers slide on better.  I will be
doing the fronts in a couple of weeks.  I don't want to pay the high
prices for the molded front seat foam buns.

Jeff.

'70 442 Conv.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:02:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 again

In a message dated 97-03-01 19:06:01 EST, you write:

<< At 05:42 PM 3/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
 >Well guys, I bought myself a new compression tester and checked out the
 307.  On
 >a cold engine I got: 1-155, 3-150 5-150, 7-145 2-155, 4-145, 6-148, 8-148
 >sounds good huh?  I rechecked it warm and saw the numbers drop off 5-20 ª.
 I
 >added some oil to the worst two and saw the compression go up 35 and 40 ª.

 >
 >When I started it up, I remembered what oil smoke looked like!
 >
 >I'm not used to seeing an oil burner with this much compression but the
35-40ª
 >difference sounds like rings yes?
 >
 >I value your opinions
 >
 >Pat


 Pat

         With an increase of that much it is definitely rings. There can be
 no questions about it. Sorry it sounds like your going to have to go though
 it to do it right.

 Jim Chermack >>

Do the compression check again.  You may have messed it up doing those.  It's
odd that only two would be off, when the rest are decent.  I would think that
if you have wear on the rings from oil problems, you're gonna have it in all
of them.

(Besides, you'd hate to, through any fashion such as checking the bores,
etc., find out everything was still fine, and you may have messed up the
check.)

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:23:46 -0400
Subject: Hot New Parts

Hey All,

         Just got some new stuff in that some people were asking about so I
thought I would put it up on the list.

68-69 Wheelwell Moldings (MINT)  all 4  $200.00
68 442 Cut-out Rear Bumper (needs chrome)  $135.00
66-69 SSI's (set of 4) nice but not perfect with thin pin stripe whitewalls
$300.00 set
70-71 Cutlass Supreme Chrome Trim (complete excellent cond)  $225.00 set
'C' Heads  $350.00 pr
'E' Heads  $350.00 pr

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442
Virginia Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:54:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Axle shaft and oil seal

In a message dated 97-03-10 01:13:06 EST, you write:

<< The Wiz

 P.S. I've got some duct tape for sale.  Not that sliver grey kind, but some
 in camoflage green, just in case you need to fix something and you don't
 want anyone to see it.
  >>

------------------------------

From: Bob McElroy <rmcelroy@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:49:50 -0400
Subject: Internet Thought for the Week (Non-Olds)

Thought for the Week
- ---------------------------
Q: How many Internetters does it take to change a light bulb:
A: 435,235
    1 to change the bulb
    4 to tell him he should have done it differently
    365 to point out spelling/grammar errors in first 5 posts
    1834 to flame the spell checkers
    4598 to correct spelling in spelling flames
    6785 to say please move to alt.spelling.lite.bulb
    15,467 to say stop cross posting to soc.women and alt.all.men.are.scum,
alt.adoption, and s.a.a.(m)
    23,456 to endlessly debate which method is superior
    236,789 to concatenate all articles to date, then quote them, only to
say, "Me Too"

    106,345 to quote the "Me Toos" to say, "Me Three"
    1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup
    89,345 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for,
leave it here
   10,584 votes for alt.lite.bulb



/=AF\   /=AF\   /=AF\   /=AF\   /=AF\   /=AF\   /=AF\
   \_/   \_/   \_/   \_/   \_/   \_/   \_/
Bob McElroy

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:52:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Extra Capacity Oil Pans

Hmm...this is interesting, I heard that the diesel engines held more oil
due to there external oil cooler, I guess this rumor is untrue????

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, C.R.F. wrote:

> I had a thought about a source of extra capacity oil pans for the 260-455
> series of engines, at LOWER PRICES...
>
> TRY DIESEL PANS, the diesel used a larger pan than the gasoline engine.  How
> many abandoned diesels have you seen...
>
> Remember too, when using a larger pan, it usually has greater depth, and
> will require attention to the oil pump pickup.  It does much less good to
> have the pickup high in the pan, instead of near the bottom.
>
> The Wiz
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:02:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-Dirty

In a message dated 97-03-03 15:56:46 EST, you write:

<< Another point for the good guys,well done Brad.
 I have spent four hours on the road to see what the owner swore was a 70
 W-30 convt
 that he had owned since new and was all original.It had right
 engine,ram-air hood,
 rallye pac,emblems. It also had four wheel drum brakes,a 350 tranny,open
 rear,holley carb
 ,and NO 44 in vin.I tried explaining this to him in the nicest way I
 could
 after wasting my Sunday and he said I did not know what I was talking
 about. I heard he
 ended up parting car out.It takes all kinds.

 Frank
 70 442 >>

These are the kinda guys that:

A) Hopefully aren't stupid enough to just "trash" the car if it's in remotely
rough shape
(but something useable for someone like me up North where "decent" cars are
hard (read expensive) to come by).

B) Hopefully sold all the parts off to a good Olds owner, who loved them, nad
cared for them, etc. like they were supposed to be.

C) Also, lets hope this guy sold all of his old parts when he bought his
"originals" he was telling you about.  So when he goes and parts this out,
here loses money, and can't afford another good car to trash (due to losing
money on the last deal).

The unfortunate truth probably is more like after he sold the parts and car,
some old lady his family knew, has died, and he happens to pick up an
excellent car that he proceeds to beat the crap out of, then tire of, and
still want a mint for it (if he doesn't drive it into the ground first).

Ugghhhh....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: GABowles@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:35:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Seat cover mfrers.

I have some ICP crown seat covers on my 70 W30 and Ralley 350. I have had
problems since day one.  I bought these back in 1986 directly from ICP. The
button covers keep popping off.  The only thing I can figure is that I wear
Levi's 99.9 of the time when I drive the cars and the rear pockets lift the
button covers off. I called ICP and they sent me a box of the button.  I took
the seat covers back off and replaced all the buttons.  The new buttons were
popping off in less than a week.  Finally I bought some buttons from a local
upholster shop and have had no problems since.  I realize that it has been
ten years, so maybe they have gotten better.  Just thought I would add my
experience with the company.

Greg Bowles

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:14:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: T-3 Inquiry

And there is still the dead-center rock hole that can't be fixed!


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:03:10 -0400
Subject: Re: turbos/RPM stress

In a message dated 97-03-01 18:20:23 EST, you write:

<< On another related topic, why is an intake manifold-mounted blower
 called a "supercharger", and a gas driven turbine called a "turbocharger",
 since they both "supercharge" the incoming air? By supercharging I mean
 they both create a higher-than-normal intake pressure condition for the
 engine.  Couldn't they both be accurately called superchargers?  Or are
 they labelled differently just to distinguish between a gas driven-charger
 and a belt-driven charger?

                            Jim Townsend >>

I would say that, yes, they both "supercharge" the air mixture going in, (or
just air depending on the case), but since the Turbo is based on a "turbine"
principle (one side driven, one side driving), I'd bet that is the reason for
the nomenclature.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:59:40 -0400
Subject: I'll be back

I must depart the land of the silver arch for the Cumberland Gap.  I'm
leaving 3/11 and will be back 3/18, so I'm sure that many of you can breath
a sigh of relief.  I'm going on the Digest until then.

I've discovered that you the strangest things when it's you pay check.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:51:42 -0400
Subject: test (don't bother reading, just no mail from list in many hours)

hey, what are you guys doing to the listserv up there? those darn
Canadians... ;)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:14:49 -0400
Subject: Die and sell oil pans

I am pretty sure that the diesel oil pans are _not_ any larger.

There is an oil reservoir that adds and extra quart, not the pan.

To the best of my knowledge the only stock oil pan olds made with a larger
capacity was the Toronado.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "IT" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:47:10 -0400
Subject: 1981 Delta 88

I have a 1981 Delta 88 Royal Brougham.  4-door,307, lt. waxbery irid color
and tan interior.  My problem is that I have hard time finding ideas and
examples of this car in terms of body upgrades, spoilers, airdams, etc.  I
know that this car is seldom given special treatment, however with little
work, I think it has potential. I have already done some upgrades.  My main
work focused on stereo upgrades (amp, equi. sub) and minor engine work
(mainly tuning and performace ignition).  I also got a set of BF Goodrich
Radial TAs 255/60/SR15. If anyone has any suggestions, please e-mail me at
todorovb@cadvision.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:44:37 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Back in Business

Sometime last night Chebucto (home of this list) experienced
difficulties. They weren't totally down, but mail was nonexistent and
dial-in access was very slow. Looks like we're back now. I assume this
explains the lack of posts overnight; hopefully we'll be back to normal
now. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(putting up sandbags around his inbox anticipating a flood of Monday posts)
;-)

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:42:11 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory

> Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> >
> > He regrets the incident and has asked to be allowed to rejoin the list.
> > I am inclined to let him do so, provided there are not significant
> > objections from the membership.
>
    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike replies:

> No objection here.
>
> ...provided he locates the real perpretrator
> and forwards a JPEG of his battered body.   ;)

I've got no problems with his return either; there but for the grace of God
go I, yaddya yaddya yaddya... :)

And that JPEG better be detailed enough to show imprints of T3 headlights
in the guilty party's battered remains :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Jonah Kadish <kadijon@charlie.cns.iit.edu>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 19:42:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

I'm not getting the olds news letter anymore can someone write me and let
me know what's going on with the list!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
Thanks

On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jonah Kadish wrote:

> I was wondering if you can get a hold of some chrome trim for a 1964
> dynamic 88.
> Thanks,
> Jonah
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Casey Nicholls" <casey@datacom.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:42:33 -0400
Subject: 1987 Calais GT

Hello,

I have a 1987 Oldsmobile Calais GT.  I am looking for a rear spolier with a
brake light.  Nobody aftermarket made one specifically for this model year.
 Has anyone ever heard of one comparible that may fit - or have any
suggestions about a company that may custom fit?

- -----
Casey J. Nicholls - Computer Sense, http://www.computersense.on.ca

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:07:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

Chris,

Sorry to hear about Your accident.

The best thing in this was that You were intact.

Aren't some drivers unpredictable and careless !

It's Your luck that You live in the USA. Otherwise this would
cost You the arm and the leg.


Esko and Anneli

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:50:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes *NOT*

BHap wrote:

> welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds info<
SNIPPED REST OF THIS CARBAGE >

This list is much like we, the writers are. We are not machines but ordinary
living human beings. Thus this list contains a lot of "SOAP". It also contains
a vast amount of valuable information in appetizing form.

The value becomes even greater because there is a bunch af readers of every
single article written on this list. So erroneous and not-corrected
information is rare if not non existent.

And finally these people CAN help.

So BHap, try to separate the "SOAP" from the grains. Would this list be purely
technical, there would be nothing to read in it, You would just go to library
instead. As it is now this list serves also those people who don't have so
very technical relationship with their olds.

I like the smell of testosterone, whiskey and cigarettes in this list.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: George Wallace <jwallace@weir.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:16:45 -0400
Subject: Dennis Casteele

Memories...met Dennis while he at Board of Water & Light. Later, annual
meeting at Carlisle and opening of spring circuit....bookshelf full of
his books, gifts from The Olds Man...helped me buy  1968 4-4-2 @
Carlisle..thaks for the page..I miss him.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:57:40 -0400
Subject: Re: jack color for '69

I have to do the same thing for my 69 H/O.  I don't have a color code but
I know its gray.  I was just going to go to the local hobbie shop
 and match it as close as I can. Maybe mix some colors theoretically you
only need black and white.



On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Mike Shokouhi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know what the gray color is called (or equiv.) for the base,
> head, and other gray parts on a '69 H/O jack assembly.  An old Musclecar
> review paints a '71 Cutlass' semi gloss black.  Mine kind of looks like
> a rally wheel gray?
>
> Thnx
>
> Mikee
>
>

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:49:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing Q's

At 02:03 PM 3/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>What exactly is "initial timing"?  My service manual says my timing should
>be at 12 deg before top dead center.  Say what?  My timing mark is at 4. =
 If
>I advanced it to 12, the engine wouldn't even run.  Besides that, my
>distributor would be turned half way around.  Could someone please
>explain to me the right way to time an engine, and what all those numbers
>mean?
>
>BTW, engine is a 350, if it matters.
>
>Thanks,
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme
>
>
The crankshaft rotates thru 360=BA at each revolution.  When the crank is at
B.D.C. it is 180=BA away from T.D.C.  If the engine is timed at 12=BA before
T.D.C., that simply means that when the crankshaft is 12=BA from turning to
T.D.C. that is where the distributor will fire the cylinder.  Also, the No.
1 cylinder is used for all timing observations.

If you are currently at 4=BA before, and you wish to move it to 12=BA=
 before,
you loosen the distributor and move it the opposite way the rotor turns.  To
go from 4=BA to 12=BA you would move it (12-4=3D8)/2=3D4=BA, which is not=
 very much.
It certainly would not move it so that it is nearly turned around.  The
distributor is about 6" in dia., so it is PIxD is the circumberence, or
3.14159 x 6 =3D about 18" and if you divide 18/360 you get 0.05"/=BA so a 8=
=BA
move will be 8/2 =3D 4 x 0.05 =3D 0.20" and that is less than 1/4 of an=
 inch.
And your engine should still run at 12=BA B.T.D.C.

Timing the old fashioned way is with a timing light.  You put the battery
leads on the battery posts, and the 3rd wire is connected to the No. 1 spark
plug wire.  There is a line scribed on the harmonic balancer, and a little
gadget bolted to the timing chain cover that has degree markins on it.
Loosen the distributor and run the engine at idle.  Remove the vacuum
advance, and plug it so that it doesn't leak.  Move the distributor until
the line is at the 12=BA mark, and you will now be firing at 12=BA B.T.D.C.
Refasten the distributor, and check the reading; it is amazing how much the
friction bolt can move things.

The Wiz

Remember: 1. No. 1 cylinder is used for the timing work

          2. The distributor revolves at 1/2 engine speed, ie, the engine
turns twice for each turn of the distributor.

          3. Vacuum leaks can cause un-reliable readings

          4. This is usually a set it and forget it operation.

------------------------------

From: Greg Yonge <gsyonge@genesisnetwork.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:25:11 -0400
Subject: '66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible

I have the opportunity to purchase a '66 Olds Dynamic (?) 88 Convertible
for approx $3600
Can anyone tell me about this type of Olds.  It doesn't sound very common,
(at least I've never heard about it before.) From what i can tell, it's in
pretty good shape as far as the body goes... I don't know about the
engine.. I don't even know what type engine is in it!!  Could somebody help
me out with some facts about this car?  Thanks!

------------------------------

From: FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:40:00 -0400
Subject: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

Jason- thanks for answering. The XC package is indeed a factory option.
I believe that it was simular to the International series package except
that inplace of the leather seating, cloth seats reside and there are no fog
lites or aluminum wheels. I am picking up the car today at noon. Can't wait.
The car is a one owner car too. Never smoked in. It has the wording "XC
Special edition" on the doors in small lettering just like the Toro.

About the 3.3 vs. the 3.8- The info I found pegged the 3.8 at 125 hp? This was
in 86 or so. Did the hp go all the way up to 165 soon after?

FRank

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:08:03 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Security Advisory

Greg, thanks for you diligence!

   Jim


------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:29:00 -0400
Subject: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

Jeff, Paul and Kevin- thanks for the great info on the Ciera XC I am picking
up today!

Jeff- the 3.3 is a Buick engine like the 3.8 Like Kevin said.

How can I contact the Olds historicial society to get some production ª's?

About the 3.8 vs. the 3.3- My father in law is an original owner of a Cutlass
Ciera (85) w/ the 3.8 and it is nowhere as smooth as the 3.3 in the 90 I am
getting. I assume this is because of the lack of balance shafts in the early
3.8's.

Would it be fair to assume that the 3 speed automatic is 'stronger' then the 4
speed auto due to the amount of parts stuffed into the same case size of the
odtrans case as the 3 speed thus making the parts (clutches etc) smaller in
the od trans? Speculation, on my part.

FRank

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:11:00 -0400
Subject: GM RPO books for free

Heres the deal of the century- Call (800) 222-1010 which is the Chevrolet
info line. Go thru all the recorded stuff and get to a live person. Tell em
you want a free copy of the GM Production Options book. In it are all GM's RPO
numbers for all codes. I don't leave home w/o it<grin> It gives VIN breakdowns
and all RPO definations. It fits in your top shirt pocket and is about 75
pages long.




FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition
         65 El Camino.......

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:31:23 -0400
Subject: Brake Hardware: Good Idea! [was Re: Parts Swapability (brake shoes)]

At 11:29 PM 3/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I've been taking my 1965 Dynamic 88 to CarX for brake work. Especially
>because I don't feel like staking my life and my car on my perception of
>talent in the feild of brake systems. They have been able to provide me with
>brake shoes, and did not say anything about any modifications, (although they
>did install "brake hardware",very vague and somewhat disturbing). I can say
>for certain that the rear wheel cylinders appropriate for most 1965 models is
>available only from Kanter (and possibly a few other places, but not many!)

The brake hardware mentioned would (should) include the springs, retaining
pins and plates, washers and adjusters that *should* be replaced every so
often. I've been able to clean up and re-use adjusters, but since the
hardware kits are so inexpensive (<$10-$15/wheel), and they have an
important function (i.e. holding the brake shoe in place and in proper
adjustment), it is _ALWAYS_ a good idea to replace them, especially if you
are buying an older car and have no idea when the parts were last replaced
(if they ever were replaced...).

Though other places may carry the wheel cylinders (I could get my Toro's
locally), Kanter's price of $80 for four wheel cylinders is rather hard to
beat (most places wanted between $23 and $30 for each wheel cylinder for my
car). Again, if you buy an older car and are unsure about the condition of
the wheel cylinders, REPLACE THEM! After all, you would eventually like to
stop, wouldn't you? (or at leat the guy ahead of you would like you to)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:09:44 -0400
Subject: Re: newbie Cutlass Ciera question

At 07:40 AM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Jason- thanks for answering. The XC package is indeed a factory option.
[snip]
>About the 3.3 vs. the 3.8- The info I found pegged the 3.8 at 125 hp? This
was >in 86 or so. Did the hp go all the way up to 165 soon after?

Yes, the power kept climbing, after sitting at about 110-120hp with a 2-bbl
carb for a number of years. In fact, the power from the 3.8L V-6 is now up
to 195-225hp naturally aspirated, and 250hp in supercharged form; makes for
nice family sedans that run the quarter in 15-sec flat! (btw, quicker and
faster than even the W33-equipped Deltas of days gone by).

The 3.3 is a decent motor; my father owned an earlier Buick Century with a
carbureted version of this motor. I thought it was totally gutless, until
the dealer did a diagnostic on it, changed a sensor, and apparently doubled
the hp output, since it was rather peppy (for a small 6-cyl sedan) after
that. I'd imagine that the fuel-injected 3.3 would make a nice daily driver.

Oh, and as for the non-OD 3-speed transaxle; count it as a blessing.
Apparently the heat from the OD units would cause their early demise, so the
one you'll be getting would be more durable. You might want to add a tranny
cooler just for insurance  sake (life insurance for the tranny, that is).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:46:02 -0400
Subject: Re: 67 parking lights

> Thanks for putting me right Bob & Greg. Soylent Green's parking lights -do-
> go out when the headlights come on. I had seen it happen, but had not
thought > about it at the time.

As do Big Red's; and yes, I didn't think of it until I read this thread.

> So it should be possible, in theory, to alter the switch so that the parking
> lights stay on. Sorry, briefly toying with an idea.

But then the bulbs'll burn out faster, right?  I'll have to replace 'em
more often than every 25 years -- whoops, sorry, that New England, uhh,
'thriftyness' is ingrained :)

> Karl Aune
> Chicago IL
> 1965 Dynamic 88
>
> "Soylent Green is made of people. It's people!"  --Yeah, and it'll be the
> death of me!

It'll be the death of you only if you're Edward G. Robinson (Soylent Green
was his last movie, BTW...)




Tim (Loves Old Cars and Movies) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:12:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 1987 Calais GT

Casey,

You may want to check and see if a spoiler from a '90 or '91 Calais
I-Series/442 would fit.  I think the trunks are the same.  My 442 has
a 3 piece spoiler (factory) with a brake light.

Mike
'91 W-40 Calais 442
'93 W-41 Achieva SCX


On 11 Mar 97 at 3:42, Casey Nicholls wrote:

> I have a 1987 Oldsmobile Calais GT.  I am looking for a rear spolier
> with a brake light.  Nobody aftermarket made one specifically for
> this model year.

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:21:30 -0400
Subject: Re: '66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible

Depends on the shape it's in. For 66 the dynamic series was the low buck
model, but easily upgraded with the electrical toys that distinguished the
Delta series. The convertibles were probably pretty small production numbers,
I wouldn't be surprised if they were <10,000 units for that year. The engine
should be a 425 either with a 2 barrel or 4 barrel Quadrajet. The transmission
should be a Turbohydramatic 400 with a switch pitch torque converter. Brakes:
4 wheel drum brakes, single master hydraulic cylinder (not a great system, but
upgradeable). Electrical system if it's not in great shape can be swapped with
either an 88 or 98 from that year from the dash forward. With some soldering
you can also adapt a 65 harness. Fenders and doors would fit from another 88
from that year, chrome trim (this is hard to find) is by series. That means
that 66 Delta 88 had different stuff than Dynamic 88.

The great thing about these cars is that almost no one is trying to keep them,
there is an available, but rapidly dwindling supply of junkyard parts for them
in Ca., so the deal is if you find the parts they're cheap, the trick is
finding them. Guess that's not news, main point here is that you're not
competing with other guys like you would in a C*maro or M*stang.

If you need more, just ask. I've had my 98 for years and there's not much
mechanical difference between the two for the major systems.

cf


>I have the opportunity to purchase a '66 Olds Dynamic (?) 88 Convertible
>for approx $3600
>Can anyone tell me about this type of Olds.  It doesn't sound very common,
>(at least I've never heard about it before.) From what i can tell, it's in
>pretty good shape as far as the body goes... I don't know about the
>engine.. I don't even know what type engine is in it!!  Could somebody help
>me out with some facts about this car?  Thanks!

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:01:08 -0400
Subject: Re: '66 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible

At 01:21 PM 3/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Depends on the shape it's in. For 66 the dynamic series was the low buck
model,

Actually, the Jetstar 88 series was "lower" than the Dynamic 88 series in
terms of price points and features.  There was no Jetstar 88 convertible,
though, for 1966, so the Dynamic 88 convertible was the "low buck"
convertible, in least in terms of full-sized cars, for that year.  Also,
1966 was the last year for both series.


Dan





**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

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