To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #567


oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 19 March 1997      Volume 01 : Number 567

Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...
Re: rare 'new' Olds
Re: [Toro] Re: Junkyard Idiots
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª565
Drum Brake Parts For Sale
Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line
Re: Happy Springtime! (non-Olds)
Back Again
Dr. Bob's Pinto
Re: Hesitation and Thumping Problems (long-ish)
Re: Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...
Re: Hesitation and Thumping Problems (long-ish)
Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line
Re: Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...
66 smog pump
Re: Water Marks
Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line
To part or not to part...
Speaking of V-C's
Re: Subscriber Info Needed
Re: '67 Delmont
Re: Club for 73-77 Cutlass
Re: `67 Cutlass Supreme lives!
Subject: OOPS, plus additional mileage question
RE: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)
RE: 307 OLDS INFO
WTB: center console (fwd)
Re: dash painting
RE: 307 OLDS INFO -Reply
Subject: rare 'new' Olds
1990 I-Series Calais
Build Sheet ?????
Re: Build Sheet ?????
Re: Sightings
Re: Speaking of V-C's
Re: Insurance
To Part or not to Part--part 2
Re: Speaking of V-C's
Re: Speaking of V-C's
87 442 W-42??
Upper A-frames

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:26:03 -0400
Subject: Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...

Hey Vista Cruiser people, I've spotted something this last weekend that I
think was a Vista Cruiser, but it had 6 (yes, six!) doors total (three per
side).  Holy Sh*t!  Was that thing huge....   I like it!  It was
awesome........   From the looks of it, it was a late 60's, early 70's maybe.
 Is that what I saw (a Vista?)?  The nose on it looked like the '67 model
year (after checking my "Setting the Pace" to guage the year, I'm getting
better, but not THAT good to spot the years... yet).  I only caught it as I
passed it at a stoplight, and I didn't notice it had so many doors until
after I went past it, otherwise I would have chased it down.  It looked in ok
shape from what I could tell, would be an interesting "project" car to get a
hold of.  Now, I've gotta keep an eye out for it, or go cruising (pardon the
pun) around the back streets to find it.

If this actually was a Vista, would this have been the "three seat" option
listed in the back of "Setting the Pace"?

There is also a shop North of here that has a few Toros hanging around all
the time.  There are two mid-60's or so, look in halfway decent shape, and a
few newer ones (70's maybe?).  There were quite a few in total, and the older
ones looked like they were being driven on a regular basis.  May stop by
there one of these days.....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:47:01 -0400
Subject: Re: rare 'new' Olds

SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK wrote:
>
> I was over in Jersey at a used car lot and saw a RARE Olds. It was a 92
> Cutlass Supreme (not the Ciera A body) 4 door powered by a 3.4 dohc
> *5 speed* Never even knew they came so eqipped. It was red w/ gray leather
> interior. It had 69k miles on it and they wnated $9000 for it. Too high
IMHO. > It was weird to see a clutch in such a car. > Betcha only about a 100
or so were made like that. > > FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special
Edition..one of 955 (every day driver) >          65 El Camino (show car,
cruiser) >          95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car) >          95 Dodge Ram 4x4
v-10 (company truck)....

I saw a 91 or 92 covertible Cutlass supreme with same combo at dealer
couple years back,suprised the h$ll out of me.Car was slow considering
200 horse engine though.

Frank
70 442
71 442 W30 convt
72 Cutalass S
90 LSC

------------------------------

From: "Don Hilliker" <dbh3@spitfire.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:23:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [Toro] Re: Junkyard Idiots

Dave:

That is a shame about Hall's. While you are there , if he has a driver door
mirror for my 66 toro I would give $20 for it. Just let me know. Thanks a
lot!

========================================>> Don


- ----------
> From: David Brown <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
> To: toro@armchair.mb.ca; oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: [Toro] Re: Junkyard Idiots
> Date: Monday, March 17, 1997 2:19 PM
>
> This is sad to hear about. April 1st, huh, maybe it's a joke?
>
> I'm planning on making a trip to Hall's the weekend of the 29th, that's
the
> weekend after next. I don't have all the particulars yet, but if anyone
is
> interested in joining me, let me know. Reply to my address below.
>
> I'll be taking the new Dakota 4x4. Ooops, now the garage is only 75%
Olds.
> If Olds made a pickup that was a bit larger than the S-10, and pretty
close
> in price, I would have gone that route. I don't have a lot of free cash
> right now, but this is a major dent in Olds part availability.
>
> I'm located 50 miles west of Chicago. Let me know. I'll post more details

> later.
>
> Bryce, do you think Hall's your typical mud swamp about this time of
year?
>
> David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
> ------------
>
>   I was in Kansas recently at Halls Auto Salvage in Soldier Kansas.
>
>   Well he is closing April 1st. He has contracted a guy to come in and
crush
> yes crush all those Oldsmobiles. Thousands of good usable parts gone for
> good. I wish I had the ability to buy these but no way.
>   Is there anybody who could or know somebody that might be interested
before
> the ball falls. There are 200 acres of clean land with around 3000
> Oldsmobiles plus at least 2000 "other" cars.
>    Or if you need something call before its too late.
>
>     Halls Auto Salvage, Soldier Kansas.
>     1-913-924-3748
>      1-913-924-3315
>
> BEFORE ITS TO THE CRUSHER
>
> Everett Horton  OCAª 1961

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:51:33 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª565

> Frank,
>   Thanx for the reply.  I was always pleased with the performance on my
> dad's 1976 Delta 88, 455 & towing package.  I have also always heard good
> things about Quadrajets on Olds engines too.  I guess it's time to start
> searching for a good unit.

Steve,just post here that you are looking for one.Am sure some of the
helpful folks here have one or can guide you in right direction.,
Later,
Frank

------------------------------

From: David Nye <jdnye@norfolk.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:41:44 -0400
Subject: Drum Brake Parts For Sale

I'm just finishing up my disc brake conversion on my '71 Cutlass Supreme
and have some drum brake stuff that I don't need,
1) New, Brake Pro (Tenneco) drum master cylinder still in box$25
1) Reman drum brake master cyl - uninstalled$152) Drum brake
spindles/ backing plates$502) Hubs/ drums(finned-original)$25
David Nye
'71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:48:19 -0400
Subject: Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line

In a message dated 97-03-18 08:40:25 EST, you write:

> Ford Motor Co. will shut down its Thunderbird
>  and Cougar car assembly line here as
>  part of a plan to kill off four slow-selling vehicles by the end of the
>  1997 model year.

So I'm wonder what the NASCAR guys are gonna race in it's place?

Paul

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:05:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Happy Springtime! (non-Olds)


>
>                    Stupid is as Stupid Does
>
>      ************************************************************
>      The Chico, California, City Council enacted a ban on
> nuclear weapons, setting a $500 fine for anyone detonating
> one within city limits.
>
>      ************************************************************
>
> Police in Wichita, Kansas, arrested a 22-year-old man at
> an airport hotel after he tried to pass two (counterfeit) $16
> bills.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      A man in Johannesberg, South Africa, shot his
> 49-year-old friend in the face, seriously wounding him, while
> the two practiced shooting beer cans off each other's head.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      A company trying to continue its five-year perfect safety
> record showed its workers a film aimed at encouraging the
> use of safety goggles on the job. According to Industrial
> Machinery News, the film's depiction of gory industrial
> accidents was so graphic that twenty-five workers suffered minor
> injuries in their rush to leave the screening room.  Thirteen
> others fainted, and one man required seven stitches after he cut
> his head falling off a chair while watching the film.
>      ************************************************************
>      A bus carrying five passengers was hit by a car in St.
> Louis, but by the time police arrived on the scene, fourteen
> pedestrians had boarded the bus and had begun to complain
> of whiplash injuries and back pain.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      Swedish business consultant Ulf af Trolle labored 13
> years on a book about Swedish economic solutions. He took
> the 250-page manuscript to be copied, only to have it
> reduced to 50,000 strips of paper in seconds when a worker
> confused the copier with the shredder.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      A convict broke out of jail in Washington D.C., then a few
> days later accompanied his girlfriend to her trial for robbery.
> At lunch, he went out for a sandwich. She needed to see
> him, and thus had him paged.  Police officers recognized his
> name and arrested him as he returned to the courthouse in a
> car he had stolen over the lunch hour.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      Police in Radnor, Pennsylvania, interrogated a suspect
> by placing a metal colander on his head and connecting it
> with wires to a photocopy machine. The message "He's
> lying" was placed in the copier, and police pressed the copy
> button each time they thought the suspect wasn't telling the
> truth. Believing the "lie detector" was working, the suspect
> confessed.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      When two service station attendants in Ionia, Michigan,
> refused to hand over the cash to an intoxicated robber, the
> man threatened to call the police. They still refused, so the
> robber called the police and was arrested.
>
>      ************************************************************
>      A Los Angeles man who later said he was "tired of
> walking," stole a steamroller and led police on a 5 mph
> chase until an officer stepped aboard and brought the vehicle
> to a stop. >>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:13:10 -0400
Subject: Back Again

Well guys, I hope you enjoyed the break, but I'm back, after a short 2000
mile trip of Merry Oldsmobiling.



Clayton Pierce,
Late last week, I saw a '55 or '56 Olds 2-dr HT in a driveway about 20 miles
from Greenville, TN.  I seem to remember that you have a '56 on your want
list.  I'll E/M directly as soon as I find your E/M address.  I came home to
356 pages of E/M to read, and have only gone thru about 1/3rd.


Matthew Mayer,
I wondered why GM changed their keys at all.  In the good old days, one key
fits all was the rule, and it could be removed from the ignition at any
time.  You could leave the ignition unlocked if you wished too.  I would be
happy with a one key car.


Eric Aksomitis,
Yes, GM forgot to elaborate on the 'corporate engine' policy, and was sued.
The next day signs came down, and advertising went up.


Re, restocking charges:
Restocking charges can be made when a customer buys a part and returns same.
If the return is caused by damage, or if the part is incorrect this charge
is not applicable (you cannot charge your customer, when it is not their
fault!!!).  As a matter of fact, in the way described, it may in fact be
FRAUD.  I would RUN not walk to the telephone, and call your local Postal
Inspector.  The Postal Inspectors service is the oldest existing law
enforcment body in the U.S.  They will take details, and if warranted send
you a form.  After the form is filed  amazing things happen, including
proper action on the part of the vendor.  These guys can be nice, if they
get a proper response, or nasty if they do not.  I personally know of two
cases where the Postal Inspectors went to work, and both cases restulted in
prolonged stays in the crossbar hotel for the perpatrators.

You as the customer have the right to expect the correct part in un-damaged
condition.  If either of these conditions are evident in the parts you
acquire, you have the right to return them, for a full refund; or in the
case of damage, occasionally it is worked out with the carriers insurance:
this later case is conditional, and dependant on where the fault is found.

There are postal regulations that deal with many aspects of 'mail order'
businesses, and a vendor cannot post a rule that is counter to the postal
regulations.

If you live in a large city, the Postal Inspectors probably have an office.
If you are a bit remote, call your local post office branch and get the
number for the closest office, I'm sure that they will be happy to provide
you with the number, and any other assistance that you may require.

That's all for now, more when I get thru the rest of the posts.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:13:37 -0400
Subject: Dr. Bob's Pinto

Just last week in my G.E.D. study class they were discussing the mass of
photons.  Dr. Einstein would be proud to know that at least in a Pinto his
observations have been proven.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Hesitation and Thumping Problems (long-ish)

On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:40:45 -0400 pete <pete@img.net> writes:
>chech the accelarator pump adjustment..it may not be injecting the
>fuel
>on acceleration..mine did that..
>Pete
>At 12:06 AM 3/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>I am a long time lurker and owner (about 3 years) and finally have a
>problem to throw at the group.  First, my car :
>69 442 Convertible
>73-76 455, J Heads (I know I know), Holley 650 single pump. Holley
>Street Dominator manifold, factory (for the year) electronic ignition
>TH400 (fresh rebuild)
>Problem 1:
>The car has a hesitation whenever I tap the gas.  At any speed.  It
>bogs down for a split second and roars to life.  It does not matter if I
am
>at a light or doing 70.  However, it does not do it when the car is in
park
>(under no load).  Then I can punch the pedal and all I hear is the
>happy sound of the back barrels opening up.  If I am very very gentle on
the
>gas I can get it to move without the stumble .. more so at highway
>speed than at a stop.  I do not have to let off the pedal at all .. if I

>mash it to the floor, it stumbles and recovers .. all without lifting my
>(sometimes too heavy) foot.
>Things I have checked :
>1. Vacuum ... from the carb to the distributor .. using a vacuum gauge
>that my dad has (and not being able to figure out the scale) it shows
>very little vacuum at idle, then 50 "whatevers" at around 2000 rpm and
>the needle is very steady.  Vacuum from the manifold to the
>transmission is strong and steady as well.
>2.  Timing ... this is a tricky one.  The timing is currently set by
>"feel".  I only have the 1969 shop manuals and tried all the timing
>specs I could find.  Found one that seemed right (I don't remember what
it
>was).  Fine tuned it so it started easy and ran well.  Does anybody
>know the "right" number of degrees for this engine?
>3.  Timing advance ... I pulled the distributor cap and sucked on the
>timing advance hose .. the actuator seemed to move freely.
>My original thought was that the carb was doing it (flooding itself,
>the engine) but it seems that it would do that on the road or in park.
>Ed
>69 442 Convertible

My Thoughts are that the air valve that controls the secondaries is
either opening prematurely or opening too late for the timing setup on
the car. I experienced this with my Q-Jet. A while spent adjusting this
and a few test drives got the problem resolved. Of course, I had to find
a road that allowed me to WOT the car to a good speed. In these days and
times, that could present a small problem.

Rob Turner
Katana72         It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile !!!!        Hastings,
MN

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:40:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...

>Hey Vista Cruiser people, I've spotted something this last weekend that I
>think was a Vista Cruiser, but it had 6 (yes, six!) doors total (three per
>side).  Holy Sh*t!  Was that thing huge....   I like it!

Well it would be a really wierd one off deal if it was a V-C.  I've never
heard of a six-door, only four doors with tailgates but stranger things have
happened.

>It was
>awesome........   From the looks of it, it was a late 60's, early 70's maybe.
> Is that what I saw (a Vista?)?
> I didn't notice it had so many doors until
>after I went past it, otherwise I would have chased it down.

Did it have a roughly four foot by twelve  inch sunroof over the back( the
seat behind the front seat that is) seats?  Along with a raised rear roof
and little windows over the back side windows that sorta wraped around into
the roof?  That is the major difference between the Vista-Cruiser and the
base Cutlass Cruiser.  That and a longer overall legnth and wheelbase.  Six
doors would be a custom job or some other type of anomaly.  Still, it would
be kinda cool.
The third seat option means you could fit an extra two people in the very
back(preferably not very tall people, perfect for kids though) but they get
to climb over a folding 60/40 (more like 80/20) split bench second seat.
Even then you still have room for a couple of suitcases and a coleman ice
chest without blocking the view out the rear window.  Oh, and there's an
extra compartment for the spare tire, jack, and room for a small toolkit.
Twenty-three gallons to fill it up and you're ready for a road trip.  But I
digress.

Anyways the big d*mn sunroof is the best way to spot a Vista.  Still, I'd
love to see the six door.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:38:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Hesitation and Thumping Problems (long-ish)

At 12:05 AM 3/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:40:45 -0400 pete <pete@img.net> writes:
>>chech the accelarator pump adjustment..it may not be injecting the
>>fuel
>>on acceleration..mine did that..
>>Pete
>>At 12:06 AM 3/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>I am a long time lurker and owner (about 3 years) and finally have a
>>problem to throw at the group.  First, my car :
>>69 442 Convertible
>>73-76 455, J Heads (I know I know), Holley 650 single pump. Holley
>>Street Dominator manifold, factory (for the year) electronic ignition
>>TH400 (fresh rebuild)
>>Problem 1:
>>The car has a hesitation whenever I tap the gas.  At any speed.  It
>>bogs down for a split second and roars to life.  It does not matter if I
>am
>>at a light or doing 70.  However, it does not do it when the car is in
>park
>>(under no load).  Then I can punch the pedal and all I hear is the
>>happy sound of the back barrels opening up.  If I am very very gentle on
>the
>>gas I can get it to move without the stumble .. more so at highway
>>speed than at a stop.  I do not have to let off the pedal at all .. if I
>
>>mash it to the floor, it stumbles and recovers .. all without lifting my
>>(sometimes too heavy) foot.
>>Things I have checked :
>>1. Vacuum ... from the carb to the distributor .. using a vacuum gauge
>>that my dad has (and not being able to figure out the scale) it shows
>>very little vacuum at idle, then 50 "whatevers" at around 2000 rpm and
>>the needle is very steady.  Vacuum from the manifold to the
>>transmission is strong and steady as well.
>>2.  Timing ... this is a tricky one.  The timing is currently set by
>>"feel".  I only have the 1969 shop manuals and tried all the timing
>>specs I could find.  Found one that seemed right (I don't remember what
>it
>>was).  Fine tuned it so it started easy and ran well.  Does anybody
>>know the "right" number of degrees for this engine?
>>3.  Timing advance ... I pulled the distributor cap and sucked on the
>>timing advance hose .. the actuator seemed to move freely.
>>My original thought was that the carb was doing it (flooding itself,
>>the engine) but it seems that it would do that on the road or in park.
>>Ed
>>69 442 Convertible


Ed

        Try replacing the accelerator pump first. This should get rid of 90%
of your problem. They are very easy to replace on a Holley carb. IF that
doesn't cure it the power valve is shot. This will happen almost everytime
you have a backfire though the carb. It still may run but your mileage will
go to heck, and may cause a stumble when transitioning from primary to the
secondaries. For easy maintenance I would definitely switch to a Q-jet. A
good starting pooint there would be to find a earlier big block carb try a ª
7040251. Initial settings in this carb should put all the life back in you
Olds and improve your fuel economy.  Hope this helps.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:54:05 -0400
Subject: Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line

>In a message dated 97-03-18 08:40:25 EST, you write:
>
>> Ford Motor Co. will shut down its Thunderbird
>>  and Cougar car assembly line here as
>>  part of a plan to kill off four slow-selling vehicles by the end of the
>>  1997 model year.
>
>So I'm wonder what the NASCAR guys are gonna race in it's place?

Oh gawd.  Here come the two door Tauruses (Tauri?).  And yet there are so
many NASCAR fans who dismiss indy cars and formula one because "They ain't
real cars."  I just don't understand.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:46:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser.....   sighting I think....  And a few Toros...

At 10:26 PM 3/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey Vista Cruiser people, I've spotted something this last weekend that I
>think was a Vista Cruiser, but it had 6 (yes, six!) doors total (three per
[snip]
>If this actually was a Vista, would this have been the "three seat" option
>listed in the back of "Setting the Pace"?

Well, if it was a VC, it didn't come from the factory that way. That sounds
like an airport-limousine type conversion. I imagine that this would look
good with the lines of the VC (unlike the *Toro* airport limo, which didn't
really retain much of the Toro's lines. Of course, it is better-looking than
the Toro-based airport pushtruck. Pics of all these odd things are available
on the Toro FAQ page)

The third seat was in the rear luggage compartment, and unlike the
next-generation wagons, it faced forward. With the raised roof of the VC, it
was like being in the balcony. The car you saw would have been a
_four_seater, and could have fit twelve people.

>There is also a shop North of here that has a few Toros hanging around all
>the time.  There are two mid-60's or so, look in halfway decent shape, and a
>few newer ones (70's maybe?).  There were quite a few in total, and the older
>ones looked like they were being driven on a regular basis.  May stop by
>there one of these days.....

Uh, oh, call the CDC; looks like another outbreak in the making... ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Steve <smickle@ismi.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:54:35 -0400
Subject: 66 smog pump

The gentleman has advised you incorrectly.  My understanding is that
beginning at some point in the 66 model year all the B heads were
drilled and plugged.  I have had more 66's that were drilled and plugged
than those that weren't, and none of the cars were CA cars....  My
current car is a 66 442, protecto plate car, I am the second owner, a MI
car always, and the bosses are drilled and plugged.  As far as what you
are really trying to find out I cannot shed any light...  One clue might
be that the factory plugs were hexagonal at the top while most plugs
that you would buy will be square.


Steve

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:53:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Marks

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Robert Yasczak wrote:
> > My 1987 Cutlass Salon has acid rain marks on the hood, roof, and trunk is
there > > any way of removing them without having to repaint the car.  It is
all black, > > and other than tis problem the paint is near perfect.  I was
planning on > > showing this car on a limited basis along with my other
Oldsmobiles.  Any help > > would be appreciated. > > Are these water marks
basically transparent, basically white, or > something else altogether? Not
sure I'd know how to ID an acid rain mark... > > Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Acid rain marks look like water spots.  It has the same look as if you
washed the car, but did not wipe it dry.

If the marks aren't deep, they can be block sanded out using very fine
1200 wet or dry paper.  Buffing then finishes the job.  This is assuming
plenty of paint & shallow spots.  If this won't get it, only a repaint
on those damages sections will help much.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:29:12 -0400
Subject: Re: (Non-Olds) end of the line

At 03:54 PM 3/18/97 -0400, Greg Pruett wrote:
>>In a message dated 97-03-18 08:40:25 EST, you write:
>>
>>> Ford Motor Co. will shut down its Thunderbird
>>>  and Cougar car assembly line here as
>>>  part of a plan to kill off four slow-selling vehicles by the end of the
>>>  1997 model year.
>>
>>So I'm wonder what the NASCAR guys are gonna race in it's place?
>
>Oh gawd.  Here come the two door Tauruses (Tauri?).  And yet there are so
>many NASCAR fans who dismiss indy cars and formula one because "They ain't
>real cars."  I just don't understand.

They will use the Lincoln Mark VIII I think. Last year they tested a new
Frod body style when the Thunderbird was consistently getting beat by the
Monte Carlo. Killing the Thunderbird is REALLY going to affect the economy
by me in Lorain, Ohio. All over the news here, lots of secondary jobs will
be lost due to the lack of business in and around the plant.

Olds Content: Olds is probably not far behind unfortunately.................

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:38:31 -0400
Subject: To part or not to part...

How fitting you should mention that old Eastern rust factor - the car I'm
trying to help a lady sell out here (1970 Cutlass Supreme, 84,000 miles,
never been hit but has oxidized paint & rust around the back window) has
gone unsold for 2 1/2 months because of that rust.  Here in Calif. people
forget these beach kept cars are just as prone to cancer as your
salt-exposed cars.  Still, in New York I'll bet this car would be gone in
about 10 min. flat.

I rescued my project V-C because I am an eternal optimist with cars - I see
the potential rather than the drawbacks.  The way it looks now I'll be able
to put her back together and keep her going for another 25 years which
makes me feel good.  At the rate I get inquiries, compliments and interest
in my daily driver wagon, I cannot forsee having a problem selling this car
when I'm done.

Humorously, I live in a rather 'ethnic' area and there is this 4 door,
shiny green  '69 Cutlass that this ethnic gentleman has that is obviously
his pride and joy -  embellished but obviously pampered as well and he
beams proudly whenever he's out with it!  It makes me smile whenever I see
him - I doubt too many other people would look at that ugly duckling model
and treat it as well.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:44:07 -0400
Subject: Speaking of V-C's

Speaking of rare V-C's - on the Trader Online listing there was a '72 Vista
Cruiser, 2 seat model, 6 cylinder, three on the tree.  How many of THOSE
were produced?  It didn't offer many more details but the price was
- --------- yes we're glad Lisa can't drive that far ------- $250.00.  I'd of
been there in a flash (it was in the South somewhere I think, poor memory
fading as we speak).  I know in '67- '70 they list like 300 produced of the
2 seat model.  Whimper whimper.

Lisa (I need another car like I need more children) Madsen
'67 Delta 88 Custom, '72 Vista Cruiser, '72 Vista Cruiser project (so far
nicknamed the Green weenie)

------------------------------

From: OldsDr@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:50:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Subscriber Info Needed

oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca   should get you on the mailing list.  Or if you
you go to 442.com  you can find out for sure.

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:49:59 -0400
Subject: Re: '67 Delmont

Kurt - I advised Dave I'm looking for a pass. rear wheel well molding in as
mint condition as possible.  Also inquiring into those pesky rear interior
light lens covers (looking for ones not cracked or yellowed - if such a
thing is poss. after 30 years!)


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:59:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Club for 73-77 Cutlass

I'll be glad to add you as a link - and no, it won't go to Hemmings.....


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:57:10 -0400
Subject: Re: `67 Cutlass Supreme lives!

But bless her heart - she did start for you!  Maybe if this 350 turns out
to be fairly trashed you can hunt up an orig. 330  - they are great little
motors you know.

I hauled home my '67 400 motor this weekend and am chomping at the bit to
get STARTED.  Pulled the valve cover off & all is clean and looks good (its
sat 12 years) & the oil level is still full & looks clean - not new, but
clean.  Going to pull it apart & replace all that isn't easy to replace
when its out of the car, etc. etc. etc.

Good luck -

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: "Greg Sage" <tootall@cadvision.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 02:29:55 -0400
Subject: Subject: OOPS, plus additional mileage question

At 17:00 16/03/97 -0400, you wrote:
>First, 1 US gallon = .8326 Imperial Gallons
>
>My daily driver is 83 Olds 2 door 307 4sp auto. Under ideal conditions I
>get 22.5 mpg (27 mpg imperial) highway. Ideal is hot (85+ F), no wind,
>empty. Car seems to run on vapours when the weather is hot.
>
>I have a non standard rearend. 3.43? It was ordered to make it more
>drivable and I think it makes a difference. (Very nice setup for stop and
>go city driving too). This car feels like it floats on the highway under
>ideal conditions. Ideal speed for this set up I feel is around 65-70 mph
in
>od.
>
>Average is 21 mpg (25 mpg imperial).
>
>But, give it a load or headwind and milage suffers badly. Hill climbing
>means manual shifting down to 3rd early regularily because otherwise
>transmission wants to lockup and lug a while before it will shift. I'd
hate
>to tow a travel trailer.
>
>Worse ever: on a 1000 mile trip, 17 mpg (imperial) towing a small utility
>trailer (1500 lbs) in mountainous terrain, 32 F.
>
>
>BTW, my 76 350 3 spd Cutlass gets 19 mpg (23 mpg imperial) but much more
>consistently. Worsever: 11 mpg towing 1500 lbs in a moderate headwind at
>-30 F.
>
>1976 Cutlass S (1st owner)
>1976 Cutlass S (2nd owner)
>1983 Delta 88  (1st owner)
>
>Marvin Friesen
>Vancouver, BC, Canada

Marvin, I have a 1982 Cutlass 267(Candian motor which I found out) and it
runs about the same.  Took it down to the Oregon coast last summer, and it
got about the same miliage going through the canyons.  Really sucked it
back on a hot day uphill.

Greg Sage
Calgary, Alberta
1982 Olds Cutlass(second owner)
"Cheers to the 80's Babies!"

------------------------------

From: Albert Levi Ball <alball@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 02:38:01 -0400
Subject: RE: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3400.F6D17DE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cant remember the issue but Buick had some spare engines left over after =
the GNX and Pontiac threw them in the Turbo GTA. Car Craft or Hot Rod =
(cant Remember which) put both against each other and the F body won out =
but only by hairs. Used to have the article around the house but I think =
I threw it away.
Albert Levi Ball
Weekly Quote
"Some things with the Number 7 are just better"
1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic


- -----Original Message-----
From:Greg Pruett [SMTP:grpruett@vt.edu]
Sent:Wednesday, March 05, 1997 1:20 PM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)

> For be it for me to spread dissent or start arguments...but, how much
> HP/torque does a b*ick t*rbo v6 put out compared to the 455 Olds?
>=20
> Danny
>  >>
>
>I dunno on the actual number, and it will depend on what 455 you pick =
(high
>HP?, etc.).  The HP figures are going to be the closest in this =
comparison
>(if that's what you'd call it, more like a "stomping" I would think), =
and I
>would think the 455 wins there.  As far as torque is concerned, the 455 =
is
>gonna tear that v6 up pretty good.  The 455 is a stump puller, the v6 =
is a
>high RPM motor.
>
>Chris Ruper

Don't sell the little turbo V6 too short.  The 1987 Buick GNX (special
edition Grand National, 500 made) sports a V6 that makes =
300hp@4400(245@4400
advertised) and 400(yes, FOUR HUNDRED) lb of torque at 3200rpm(355@3200
advertised).

The car runs 15 lb of boost and had an intercooler and uses the good 'ol
200-4R.  Curb weight is 3331 pounds and it had a 3.41:1 limited slip
rearend.  With that combo it was good for 13.47 in the quarter and 5.4
second 0 to 60 times stock off the showroom floor.  I'm afraid that even =
a
healthy 442 would have to try it's damedest to dust off a GNX.  Of =
course,
you're not likely to see a GNX at the local stoplight so no one else has =
to
know.  :) =20

The specs came from an old Hot Rod mag article that also proclaimed the =
car
"Last of the real muscle cars."  If I remember correctly it was the =
fastest
production car built that year and it's probably the fastest GM car that
wasn't an F-body since. Pretty sad really.=20

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser    =20


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------------------------------

From: Albert Levi Ball <alball@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 02:29:33 -0400
Subject: RE: 307 OLDS INFO

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I would also like to know of his set up too. Shoot I would be plenty happy if
I can get near the 12 sec ball park. Thanks Albert Levi Ball 1988 Olds Cutlass
Supreme Classic Brougham


- -----Original Message-----
From:GARY RUBRICH [SMTP:RUBRICH@bwaafs.com]
Sent:Tuesday, March 18, 1997 7:33 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:307 OLDS INFO

Hey Brad,

  My name is Gary Rubrich and I'm an avid Olds enthusiast,
especially small blocks. I believe I have the articles you are
looking for on the 307 buildup and the SS/GTK Olds cutlass. I
also have a friend who raced NHRA stock & super stock with a 307
cutlass and has some parts he is interested in getting rid of .
 His car in L/SA went 12.20's and in SS went 11.60's. Let me know
if your interested.


                                                   Gary Rubrich
                                                   72 442 350

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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3400.F1E82AE0--

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:29:13 -0400
Subject: WTB: center console (fwd)

Forwarding to the list... if anyone can help please reply to this person
directly.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:24:28 -0400
From: don442@oz.sunflower.org
To: AB348@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: center console

Hi Greg,

Doug Newman referred me to you.  He said you might have a source for a
console for an '86 Cutlass 442.

TIA

Don Smith

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: dash painting

Go to your local automotive paint supplier and have them mix up a quart
of interior paint for your car.  They have the info for the inside
colors just like they have for the outside.  This way you will be
assured of getting the correct color and texture of paint.  I would
suggest laquer, as it is the easiest to paint IMHO.  Of course this is
assuming you do have spray equipment at home.  When you paint the dash
you may want to paint all of the remaining painted areas inside your car
so they match.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: GARY RUBRICH <RUBRICH@bwaafs.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:16:44 -0400
Subject: RE: 307 OLDS INFO -Reply

Albert,

  How does a 5.38 gear and 7200 rpm sound? I'm serious, NHRA
stock and super stocks run the ragged edge of desaster and definately
not streetable. A low 13 second recipe for you would be stock short
block 307 with ª5 68 350 heads ported with w-31 valves,mondello
jm-20/22 cam, performer rpm manifold, holley ª3310-1 780 cfm carb,
4.10 rear gears, m&h street tires or slicks.

                                                 good luck,
                                                 Gary Rubrich



>>> Albert Levi Ball <alball@mindspring.com>  3/19/97, 01:29am >>>
I would also like to know of his set up too. Shoot I would be plenty
happy if I can get near the 12 sec ball park.
Thanks
Albert Levi Ball
1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham


- -----Original Message-----
From:GARY RUBRICH [SMTP:RUBRICH@bwaafs.com]
Sent:Tuesday, March 18, 1997 7:33 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:307 OLDS INFO

Hey Brad,

  My name is Gary Rubrich and I'm an avid Olds enthusiast,
especially small blocks. I believe I have the articles you are
looking for on the 307 buildup and the SS/GTK Olds cutlass. I
also have a friend who raced NHRA stock & super stock with a 307
cutlass and has some parts he is interested in getting rid of .
 His car in L/SA went 12.20's and in SS went 11.60's. Let me know
if your interested.


                                                   Gary Rubrich
                                                   72 442 350

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:52:23 -0400
Subject: Subject: rare 'new' Olds

Frank you are right about this rare Olds.  I don't have the 92 figures.  But
in 1991 there were only 270 Cutlass Supremes made with the 5-speed.  None
were 4 doors.
The list I have also makes reference to a convertible model with the 3.4 dohc
the number under this column is 1!  Maybe a misprint?  I guess I would be
looking for that car!

Cecil

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:55:59 -0400
Subject: 1990 I-Series Calais

Anyone interested in this car.  I found it on a lot in my home town this last
weekend.  it's pretty rough. 109K miles, HO Quad4, MM5, 1SC Digital Driver
Info System.  Needs at least new tires, new paint. etc..  It's been in at
least two seperate fenderbenders that I could tell and is starting to get
some surface rust in a few places.  The place is asking $3300 or $3500.  Let
me know.  It was too rough for me or I would consider it myself.  According
to my papers from Olds it is one of 126 I-Series Coupes made with the 1SC
option.

Cecil
NotDads442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:58:33 -0400
Subject: Build Sheet ?????

Last night I went looking for the build sheet on my car.  Looked under the
seats etc. and found nothing.  In the trunk I found a sticker on the spare
tire cover.  It has my VIN and a whole bunch of three digit codes on it.
 Some I recognized..W41, MM5, FE3...  Is this the 1990's equivalent of a
build sheet????

Cecil
NotDads442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:13:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheet ?????

Sort of, but not really...

First off, I'll have to admit that my information is tainted by not ever
having owned a car newer than an '84 (I'm a poor college student y'know).

If I'm not mistaken, all G-bodies (at least one's going back to '83) had
this sticker (mine does) as well as a build sheet (okay, so not ALL of
them had the build sheets).  As far as I've been able to ascertain, there
is no requrement that the build sheet must be put in the car, but rather,
it is up to the employee to dispose of it (normally by just tossing it in
the car somewhere).  Therefore, I'm sure not ALL cars will have the build
sheet.  Also, I know that my '81 Cutlass parts car I had, had 2 build
sheets in it, one for the next car on the line... perhaps this is the
case.  Also, I've heard that in some of the newer cars, the build sheets
can be located in rather inaccessible locations such as underneath the
lining on the front seat(s).  The sticker on your trunk will have all of
the options on your car, so, if that's all you need, I'd just use that.
I'm sure there is somebody on the list that has a chassis manual for that
year, and can decode your options list for you, just make a request.  It
is certainly not worth tearing you front seats apart to hunt for a build
sheet though!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 NotDads442@aol.com wrote:

> Last night I went looking for the build sheet on my car.  Looked under the
> seats etc. and found nothing.  In the trunk I found a sticker on the spare
> tire cover.  It has my VIN and a whole bunch of three digit codes on it.
>  Some I recognized..W41, MM5, FE3...  Is this the 1990's equivalent of a
> build sheet????
>
> Cecil
> NotDads442@aol.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:41:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings

Hi all,

Chris Ruper mentioned sightings and it brought to my mind an occurence
a couple weeks ago, right after my accident.  I saw a 68? 442 in a
darker teally color driving on Spring Street near the 405 freeway over
pass (Sorry for those who don't know what the heck I am talking about)
in Long Beach/Signal Hill area.  I honked at the individual but he
seemed to be looking for something and was paying attention to me.
Oh well.  I usually acknowledge others in 442/Cutlasses when I see
them.  Was this young man anyone on this list?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:51:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of V-C's

At 12:44 AM 3/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Speaking of rare V-C's - on the Trader Online listing there was a '72 Vista
>Cruiser, 2 seat model, 6 cylinder, three on the tree.  How many of THOSE
>were produced?  It didn't offer many more details but the price was
>--------- yes we're glad Lisa can't drive that far ------- $250.00.  I'd of

Wow, watta combination! [perhaps it had the emerald green exterior with red
vinyl interior as well? That'd be a one-of-a-kind, and for good reason...]

I thought that the last year for the 6-cylinder option was 1970, though, and
then only on the F-85? And I was certain, for some reason, that the VC had
the 350 2-bbl/auto as the standard engine package. And that the 3-seat
package became the standard setup on the VC at some point? Ah, perhaps I'm
just imagining...

I did drive a factory "three on the tree" 1972 Cutlass Supreme the other
weekend; odd thing to have in a car like that, especially since I'm used to
a 3-speed console automatic in my CS. The above VC would be one of those
cars that would be interesting to see, but not to drive on a daily basisa...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:59:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Insurance

Dan Miller wrote:
>
> Hey Folks,
>
>         I am looking for the phone numbers for these companies....Any help??
>
>                                 Dan.
>

Hagerty Insurance can be reached at 1-800-548-0858.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:56:00 -0400
Subject: To Part or not to Part--part 2

The replies I have seen regarding the "to part or not to part" question
have been more on the preservation side than the part it out side.  I
did not realize that you were allowed to change color or add/delete
accessories (this car does not have a Rally Pack, although it does have
a dual gate and the inside hood lock)and still show the car.  But then
again, car shows are not my thing.  I wish I had the unlimited capital
to buy the car and keep it for future restoration.  I may be able to do
that if I can get the car for an affordable price.

The outside appearance of the car is rough, but the parts of the trunk
pan that I could see (it is full of parts,boxes, etc.) looked pretty
solid, and the gas tank was in excellent condition.  Based on the faded
paint but solid looking undercarriage (that I could see) it appears that
the car was parked outside , on a hard surface for many years.  Those of
you who have seen the effects of parking a car on the grass will know
what I'm talking about here.  All of you have gotten me thinking about
keeping the car.  The clincher will be if I can find the build sheet,
and if the guy who is the quasi-owner will sell it to me before I die of
old age..  Boy, wait until the wife finds out........

Scott Mullen

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:25:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of V-C's

Robert Barry wrote:

> I did drive a factory "three on the tree" 1972 Cutlass Supreme the

Ok.  What is "three on the tree" mean?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:41:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of V-C's

As far as I know, 3 in the tree is a three-speed standard with shifter on
the steering column, same as 4-on the floor is a 4-speed floor-shifter
(didn't it used to be a CBC TV show two?)



EA~

On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:

> Robert Barry wrote:
>
> > I did drive a factory "three on the tree" 1972 Cutlass Supreme the
>
> Ok.  What is "three on the tree" mean?
>
> Chris Sparks
>

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:08:00 -0400
Subject: 87 442 W-42??

Tim - I was baffeled by your car. The 87 442 W-42. I looked up the "W-42"
in the GM RPO book and came up w/"performance package, high speed-export
vehicle" Wow. What is that? Was your 442 an export?







FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:25:19 -0400
Subject: Upper A-frames

I purchased new upper A-frame bushings for my '74 Supreme.  I thought I
recieved a mix set, they are not all the same.  Other sources confirmed
these I bought are correct replacements, but one bushing is larger.  The
original bushings are all be the same, and I'm unable to identify the
larger bushing in any diagrams I've found.

Do the larger bushings install on the rear of the upper A-frame like the
larger on the lower A-frame?

- --
John "Shoe-Man" Schumacher
North Texas Olds Club ª25464 Dynamic 88
Dallas, Texas69 442
OCA ª02115174 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª567
********************************
