To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #530


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 22 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 530

Re: Some 442's
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re[2]: Some 442's
Re: Some 442 ?s
Manuals
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Buick 350, 400
Re: 455 engine swap
Re: Early V8s
Re: more engine questions
307 problems
Holley Fuel Injection
Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Re: Front Drive Differentials
Re: Water Wetter
Re: Secret service automobile leasing (humor)
Re: more engine questions
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: more engine questions
Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Manuals
Re: 307 problems
Re: more engine questions
Re: Secret service automobile leasing (humor)
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: more engine questions
Re: Build Sheets
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: more engine questions
Re: more engine questions
Re: 442
Re: Front Drive Differentials
Re: Whats in a name??  was Re: 442
Re: more engine questions
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: more engine questions
Re: Olds 403
Re: more engine questions
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442
Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442
Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
4-42 vs. 4-4-2: Olds related but moronic
Re: Olds Starfire curiosities
Re: 4-*2 vs.: Olds related but moronic
Re: 455 engine swap
Re: Olds Request
Rear main seal 455
ARP main studs
307 problem history
RE: ARP main studs
[none]
[none]
Re: 4-42 vs. 4-4-2: Olds related but moronic
Olds vs Chevy
Remaking Olds engines
Re: Olds vs Chevy
Re: Olds vs Chevy
Buick in a ch*vy?  (was Re: Buick 350, 400)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:04:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Some 442's

>> I agree, except that (as far as I know) the '81-88 RWD G-body
>> Cutlasses did not have the rear bumper rust problem that the 78-80 models
>> did.  Could be wrong. If I am, someone will correct me! :)

Audience: YOU'RE WRONG!

The '81's and up here in the Chicago area are rotting out in the middle
of the chrome areas, usually between the outer corners and the little
bumperettes. Mine was a great example of that.

But I think they rust in a slightly different way: the '70's models
would rot out their backing plates, leaving nothing attached to the
gas pistons; Dad's '78 Delta and my '76 Cutlass both went that way.
My '82 rotted out the chrome lower panel but not the backing plate,
so if I wanted to spend $330 at the dealer's I could get a new chrome
cover to fix it.

For some reason mine didn't have the classic frame rot too bad, though.

>It may not be so bad, but I know that up here more often than not you see
>these cars with rot starting to appear in the chromed section of the
>bumper -- usually on the right side for some reason.

Well, that's where all the roadside puddle splash is. I always have a
lot worse time getting right-side headlamps replaced for the same reason;
the buckets are all rusted into one big lump.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:27:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 05:30 PM 2/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>At 11:50 PM 2/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Tired Of the 442 debate?  How about change it to " Is it a Delta eighty
>>>eight, eight eight, or 8-8 ?"  I know one thing mine has ate lots of
>>>recycled Dinosaur's
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Recycled dynosaurs, please explain!
>>
>>The Wiz Wonders
>
>I think he means gasoline Wiz.  Fossil fuels and all that.
>
>Greg Pruett
>`72 Vista-Cruiser
>
>
>

Thanks Greg, I completely missed the connection; and a not so tenuious(sp)
one at that.  I remember the gasoline company advertising of a couple of
decades ago!  And it's interesting, save for the fact there is NO truth to
the conception that oil came from pools of decaying dynosaurs, or is it
dinosaurs!  And every kid that remembers that advertising will swear
differently.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:26:41 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Some 442's

     Man, you guys have it tough over there with all that salt!  Arizona
     isn't the only place to find good cars.  Come over to the E. WA, N. ID
     area and you'll see plenty of them.  Sure we get snow, but no salt.

     I've heard of the classical rusted doors, bumpers, and frames before
     on the G-body.  I see rusted through bumpers occasionally.  I
     *finally* saw the rusted door bottom syndrome on *one* car after
     looking at every G-body I saw for a month.  I have never seen one with
     a rotted frame other than surface rust or perhaps slight pitting, even
     in a junkyard.  My '79, that had 180k miles and a very abused life
     (bought here locally by my uncles in-laws), had no rust on it anywhere
     when I sold it.  The junkyards here are crammed with rust-free
     G-bodies.  Unfortunately, all the yards around here tend to crush
     anything Pre-1980.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: RE: Some 442's Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/21/97 2:05 PM

Well I was going to take an 83 Cutlass out of the salvage yard and fix it up
to drive until I discovered it had no frame from the rear wheels back...so
yes the early 80's G-body cars have the problem also.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:35:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Some 442 ?s

At 10:36 AM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, I found another Olds I'm interested in.  I passed up a '84 Hurst
>a few months ago because it didn't have t-tops (thanks to those who
>helped me with that one).  This one's an '86 442, silver on silver w/
>the grey interior.
>
>It has the posi rear.  What's the ratio for this one?  I believe it's
>3.7 from what I've read here.
>
>It has the 200-4R tranny.  I think I read that the '86 and '87 200-R4s
>were built a litter tougher than previous years.  Is this true or is
>there not any difference?
>
>I know Hurst striping is near impossible to get.  Is the 442 striping
>just as rare?
>
>And finally, I'm not so sure I like the silver/silver, grey interior.
>I've got an '85 Cutlas Salon with the burghandy interior that I like.
>It's still in good shape even if the rest of the (MI) car is falling
>apart.  How hard would it be to swap this interior in?  Seems like it'd
>be relatively easy, but time consuming.  Anyone done it before?  Just
>wondering if I should wait for the color I want.
>
>Some info:
>
>asking $4700 obo
>116,000 miles  (not too concerned as I'm planning a 350 swap soon anyways)
>t-tops
>posi
>no rear wing
>15" gold trimmed 442 wheels
>new AC compressor
>power everything works
>cruise control does not
>AZ car (no rust!!!)
>
>It's about 2hrs away, but he's gonna meet me half way this weekend for
>a look-see.  Whaddya think?  Anything in particular I should look for?
>
>thanks
>--Dan
>
>

That sounds like an awful lot of money for an 11 year old ride, w/116K miles.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:02:00 -0400
Subject: Manuals

thought you all would like to know that Lansing Lithographers doesn't
carry the GM Manuals anymore.  The new company is Helm Printing.  Nu,ber
is 800-551-4123.  Just called and ordered up a set of manuals for my
442!

- ---Matt
'86 442
mailto:mmayer@interaccess.com

------------------------------

From: olivier thibault <olivier@9bit.qc.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:12:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

Daniel A. Gulino wrote:
>
> At 06:33 PM 2/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >And if its in better condition than #3 ?
>
> My guess is it ain't gonna be!  :)  Unless it looks like the day it came
> out of the showroom, including pristine condition under the hood and
> underneath, it's #3.  Have you done anything to the car to bring it back to
> like-new condition?  It's hard to imagine a car with 70,000 miles of wear
> and tear on it will be better than #3, but I could be wrong.  The main
> source of my skepticism is that it is quite common for owners to
> overestimate the condition of their car.
>
> Anyway, in the same price guide I quoted from before, a 1976 Delta 88
> Royale 4-door hardtop in #2 condition is listed at $2800.  For #1 condition
> (and I KNOW your car ain't #1 <g>), it's value is listed as $4000.
>
> Here's the Old Cars Price Guide description of a #1 car:
>
> "Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every
> area, or perfect original with components operating as new.  A 95-plus
> point show car that is not driven.
>
> In national show judging, a car in No. 1 condition is likely to win top
> honors in its class.  In a sense, it has ceased to be an automobile and has
> become an object of art.  It is transported to shows in an enclosed
> trailer, and, when not being shown, it is stored in a climate-controlled
> facility.  It is not driven.  There are very few No. 1 cars."
>
> There you have it.  For all you guys and gals out there driving around in
> those objects of art, congratulations!
>
> For comparison's sake, here is the Price Guide's description of a #2:
>
> "Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent
> original.  Also, an extremely well-maintained original showing very minimal
> wear.  Except for the very closest inspection, a No. 2 vehicle may appear
> as a #1.  The No. 2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows,
> except when squared off against a No. 1 in its own class.  It may also be
> driven 800-1000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for
pleasure." > > And the description of #3: > > "Completely operable original
or "older restoration" showing wear.  Also, a > good amateur restoration, all
presentable and serviceable inside and out. > Plus, combinations of well-done
restoration and good operable components, > or a partially restored car with
all parts necessary to complete it and/or > valuable NOS parts. > > This is a
"20-footer."  That is, from 20 feet away, it may look perfect. > But as we
approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a > little thin
in spots from frequent washing and polishing.  Looking inside, > we might
detect some wear on the driver's seat, foot pedals, and carpeting. >  The
chrome trim, while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp, >
mirror-like reflective quality it had when new.  All systems and equipment >
on the car are in good working order.  In general, most of the vehicles > seen
at car shows are #3." > > Like I said, I bet yours is #3. > > Dan > >
************************************************ > Dan Gulino >
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu > http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html >
1975 Delta 88 Convertible > ************************************************

Yai think your right!
But Even at 5 feet my car seem to be new! :)

I see your Delta 88 royale 1975!
And mine is something like this! But mine don`t have white leather in
the
interior!Its black something like suede! :)

Olivier
Delta 88 Royale 1976

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:25:33 -0400
Subject: Buick 350, 400

The Buick engines in the late 60s were Buick engines.  They bolt on to Olds
transmissions.  The 350 was a small block and the 400 was a big block.
Pat

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:26:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 engine swap

At 12:14 PM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>     I will soon begin the swap of a 350 for a 455 and I would like to know
>     if I can use the A/C, P/S, ALT. brackets and pulleys from the 350 or
>     will I need to scrounge around for brackets and pulleys from a 455?
>
>     Thanks in advance,
>
>
Nominally, everything should bolt on, as a set.  Take all the 350 stuff and
put it on the 455 and it fits.  Just don't mix and match.

I've done this conversion numerous times, and always made it work.  Also,
you will need to change the motor mounts, the 455 sets lower when it's on
the proper mounts.  Otherwise the A/C may hit the hood.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:26:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Early V8s

At 04:02 AM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> I agree Bill, but I always like to read between the lines to see what is
>> actually being said, alas poor F*rd did do it cheaply.
>
>Everyone bemoaned the loss of the Classic Lincoln KBs & KAs as opposed
>to the Zephyrs, Packard Customs as opposed to the Clippers, the Cadillac
>V16s as opposed to the OHV V8s, wood body construction as opposed to
>steel, 110" wheelbases as opposed to 140" ones, computer controlled
>systems as opposed to mechanical, etc.  One factor in each change was
>cost (read cheap).  Who would buy the older expensive types if they were
>available today?  I believe that lower cost & better quality &
>performance can be achieved at the same time.  This has been proven over
>& over.  Cheaper has shown itself to be a benefit of quality thinking
>repeatedly.  It may have even been a major cause of the disappearance of
>slavery.
>>

I remember reading about the after effects of the Civil War.  The economic
effect from the loss of slavery as a labor class in Dixie.  Save for the
loss (slaves as chattel property) without compensation, the effect was
actually positive to the cotton farmers.  It was a lot less expensive to
hire back the ex-slaves than it was to purchase and provide for them.

>> I drove down to Spring Hill, Tennessee, to see the 'expanded foam' sand
>> casting that they gave a great deal of play too, in their annual report, a
>> couple of years ago.  Without calling ahead of course.  Alas Saturn did not
>> have plant tours.
>
>I know that GM is very proud of Saturn, but the whole thing doesn't
>impress me yet.  Possibly if I saw the processes there of envisioning
>constructing cars, I might change my mind.  The cars are not superior to
>anything of which I know.  Judging things by what they produce rather
>than what they talk about has always been my system.

I don't believe I would ever own a Saturn as my personal ride, but I thought
the inovative manufacturing techniques might be interesting to observe.  I
did see "B" body Chevrolets, Chevy trucks up to 1.5T, and Corvettes being
produced in a hands on sort of way; and I was curious about what the
contrast might be!


>> So the trip was wasted, actually, almost wasted; as we
>> did see the rather stupendous 'Stagerwing Museum' at Tulahoma, Tennessee;
>> itself worth the trip.  For the museum portion of the trip I did call ahead
>> to get the particulars of their location.  The directory assistance
operator >> said there was no such thing.  I asked her, "why?"  And she said
because >> their can't be such a thing.  Then discovered the number,
appologized and >> gave it to me. > >At least she didn't pretend that she was
right.  I'll have to visit that >place.  It sounds interesting. >

The Stagerwing Museum was well worth the trip, and would be for anyone that
likes Beech 17's.

>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>
The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:26:56 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

At 11:04 AM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Lloyd Culp wrote:
>>
>> sguiller@stumail.engr.udayton.edu wrote:
>> >
>> > Are the 350 and the 400 used in late 60's Buicks (in particular '69) a
>> > Buick/Olds/Pontiac motor?  I know it differs from the Chevy engine.
>> > What about the 455 big block used in Buick (like the Stage I's, GS's
>> > etc.)?  Was it the same motor Olds used as well?
>> > I noticed the intakes on the 350's are pretty wide -- will it accept
>> > the 400 or 455 intake?
>> >
>> >         Thanks
>> >                   Shaun R. Guillermin
>> >
>> Shaun,
>>
>> Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, & What's it's name all proudly
>> built their own engines.  Virtually nothing but the gas, oil, &
>> antifreeze were interchangeable.
>>
>> Bill Culp
>> Decatur, Alabama
>
>
>Shaun,
>	Is the same true for the late 70's? ('79)  Didn't Olds use Pontiac &
>Buick motors when their plant burned down?
>
>						Gerald Hughes
>						79 Hurst/Olds
>
>
The individual divisional identity began to slip in the late '70s.  I
believe it was a ploy to keep the corporation from being dismanteled (caused
by sabre rattling from Congress).  Today, everything is corporate, except
that Chevrolet has a Covette, Olds the Aurora, etc.  They seem to still
allow a little 'one offs manship' but not much.  Since the late '70s engines
began to appear in 'foreign' bodies, and today the attitude seems to be that
it's all 'corporate.'

Wouldn't it be interesting if the 'falling QC' of the early '80s, was also
part of the ploy, designed to lessen the overall impact of GM on the nations
economy?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:25:46 -0400
Subject: 307 problems

My 307Y has been well maintained and never abused.  It started using oil at
36000 miles.  By 46000 miles it is consuming a quart to 400 miles.  It seems
excessive for valve seals.  It is not the only 87 I've heard of doing this.
Any ideas or easy fixes? Thanks Pat

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:30:33 -0400
Subject: Holley Fuel Injection

The baseline Holley is an analog system with no oxygen sensor.  The Digital
systems employ feedback with an oxygen sensor.
Pat

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:54:01 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

The following is a list of Olds parts for sale.

64 Cutlass/442
(1) 64 V-8 Fender Emblem (good used)  $5.00
Grille Assm     $75.00
RH Headlight Door    $25.00
F. Bumper Core    $75.00
RH Tail Lens    $5.00ea
LH Tail Lens    $5.00ea
Tail Light Bezels (used) $15.00 ea
Steering Wheel Center   $10.00

65 Cutlass/442
(1) 65 V-8 Fender Emblem (good used)  $5.00

66 Cutlass/442
Headlight Doors    $45.00pr

67 Cutlass/442
400/425 NOS Fuel Pump    $50.00
400/425 NOS Water Pump   $75.00
Headlight Doors NOS   $125.00pr (cutlass)
(2) 67 Deluxe Full Wheel Covers  $15.00ea

67 Toronado
Dash Gauge Bezel   $55.00
Rear Glass    $50.00
Package Tray    $25.00

68 Cutlass/442
RH Headlight Plastic   $100.00ea
Headlight Doors    $5.00ea
Trunk Chrome Molding   $50.00set
Rear Bumper Core    $65.00 (cutlass)
Rear Window Moldings   $40.00set
(4) 68 Std. Full Wheel Covers  $75.00 set
68-69 Rear Defrost (complete)  $40.00

68 Toronado
Headlight Vacuum Actuator    $50.00
Headlight Switch     $10.00
Dash Gauges    $10.00ea
Front Bumper    $75.00
Rear Bumper    $75.00
Turn Signal Lens   $65.00pr
Radiator Top Plate   $35.00

69 Cutlass/442
Headlight Doors   $50.00pr
Hood Tongue   $15.00
Hood Hinges   $20.00pr
LH Tail Light    $20.00
4 Row Radiator Top Plate   $75.00
Black Inner Fenders    $80.00pr

70 Cutlass/442
(1) 69-70 Front Rocket  $10.00
(1) 70 Trunk Lock Rocket (nice)  $10.00
(1) 14x7 HD Steel Wheel  (for dog dish caps) $20.00
Hood Tongue   $20.00ea
Headlight Doors   $55.00pr
Hood Hinges  $20.00pr
442 Post Door Panels   $40.00pr
Cutlass S Grilles   $65.00pr
Rear Upper Control Arms   $75.00pr
Drum Brake Knuckles and Backs (complete)   $85.00
OAI Hood Pins (nice used)  $30.00pr
455 Distributor #1111978 (2nd design)   $25.00
455/425/400  Offenhauser 2-4bbl. low rise intake w/2 carter 550 cfm carbs.
(Complete setup w/ linkage) $350.00
70-72 Shifter Console (1 blue and 1 black)  $125.00ea
70 Cutlass "S" Side Moldings (set) $135.00
70 AM/FM Mono w/amp $85.00
70-72 Power Disc Brake Booster w/ master cyl. $75.00 as is
($135.00 rebuilt & detailed)
70-72 Bumper Bracket Sets $40.00 set

72 Cutlass/442
71-72 RH Sport Mirror (non-remote)  $50.00
71-72 LH Sport Mirror (remote)  $50.00 ea
New '72 Main Dash Woodgraining Kit  $20.00
(4) 72-74 Deluxe Wheel Covers (nice) $50.00set
72 Cutlass Supreme Side Moldings (set) 135.00
Boxed Lower Control Arms  $60.00pr
Column Shift Tilt (black)   $100.00
Auto Consoles (1 black, 1 blue)   $75.00ea
Dash Pads (A/C car, 2 black)   $125.00ea
Edelbrock Performer Intake (small block)  $100.00
Tail Light Lens   $15.00ea

Misc: 1986/87  88/98 Wire Wheel Covers   $125.00set

**** New stuff to list****
(1) 64 F-85 Fender Emblem (nice) $15.00
68 442 Hood Louver Set $50.00 set (3)
68 Hood Hinge Sets  $50.00 set
68 Front Hood Molding (small scratch, no pitts)  $15.00
68-69 Left Quarter Panel (whole thing to roof, no rust w/inner wheelwell)
$350.00
68-72 Lower Control Arms  (Oval Bushings)  $65.00 ea (used)  $120.00 ea
(rebuilt)
70-72 Dash Clocks  $20.00 ea
70-72 Dash Block Off  $5.00 ea
New Window Fuzzies 68-72 Holiday Coupe $40.00 set (Flat style)
71-7? 10 Bolt 2.73:1  Anti-Spin Rear End   $350.00
350 Exhaust Manifolds  $60.00pr (nice)
Rear Hood Molding  $50.00 ea
Cowl/Windshield mouldings  $35.00ea
T-3 Headlight Sets $40.00 set (nice working used)
14x7 SSII Wheel Set (4) (blot on cap) $200.00 set
14x6 SSIII Wheels (newer snap on cap)  $25.00ea

P.S.  We have more parts in stock, and more coming!

Jim Chermack
'70 Cutlass SX W-32
'72 442
Virginia  Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:53:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Front Drive Differentials

yes toros do have diffs and the early ones are getting to find.

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:55:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

i havent had that exp, ive been using a similar product from bg co. with
any problems. re vht, have you had problems with paint peeling above the
center exh ports?

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:11:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret service automobile leasing (humor)

>      The vehicles required shall be Model year 1997 or later, and shall be
>      equipped with the following: V8 engines with 275 or more horsepower;
>      Rear wheel drive; Four (4) wheel anti-lock breaking system; The wheel
>      base shall be less than one-hundred and five (105) inches; Four (4)

Why don't they just come out and say they want a Must*ng C*bra, Camar*
Z28, Fir*bird, or C*rvette?  Do they honestly think they'll be offered a
Ferr*ri F355, B*nz SL500, Jagu*r XK8, L*tus or any other high priced auto
to be subject to the follies of some driving course?  Wait a minute... the
car needs to be capable of using P245/50 tires, so maybe they really want
the Jagu*r, but I don't think the leather seats will fit in with their
cloth seat requirement.  Oh, another limitation: "Limited slip rear axle".
I guess that excludes all the IRS cars.  If that didn't discount them, the
4 speed automatic transmission stipulation would have eliminated the
Ferr*ri, Jagu*r, L*tus, and SL500 anyways.  So, back to my original point:
why didn't they just say "give us the best lease" on a C*bra, Z28, or
F*rmula?  BTW, does anyone know if the snake comes with leather only
seating?  If that is the case, they should have made an LT1 engine
mandatory. :)

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:34:23 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

no, they are not the same. b-o-p's in those days built their own engine
except fot l6'. they did share transmissions and some rear-ends. having
their own engines gave each div their own identity and made for great
racing and bragging.

------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:46:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

>In a message dated 97-02-21 09:55:57 EST, you write:
>
>>>Gerald, This whole subject started when I commented how some ignorant
>people
>>>say
>>>"Four Forty Two" instead of Four- Four-Two.   Ed    Escape442@aol.com
>>>
>>>If I have to read one more message on this non-subject, I'm going to
>>scream.  Who cares?  At least they're all discussing Olds stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>Mike Evans
>>Richland, MI
>>evans1@net-link.net
>>
>>
>
>Mike,  Start screaming man, cause, a couple of us care.  If you don't think
>it's important to correctly say the name of your coveted car, what do you
>think is important?  What really makes me want to scream is when I see a post
>entitled "No Subject".  That's absurd, who can't be creative enough to title
>their remarks so we can decide if we want to read them.  Escape442@aol.com
>
>Ed--

When the primary focus of your life becomes whether someone says "Four Four
Two" or "Four Forty Two"...you just have way, way too much free time on your
hands, man!
Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:21:15 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

 Buick had it's very own engine designs all through the v-8 era up until
about 1976 when GM really started to swap engine makes between GM model cars.
 as far as i know BOP only refers to the bolt patterns on the rear of the
engines for the transmission bellhousings

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:29:48 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply

 hey Folks just read an article in Popular Hot Rodding -- they said something
about the reluctor losing it's magnetic charge thus causing hard starting and
high speed miss.
 have you thought about running a Mallory Unilite i had one since '82 and i
bought it from a flea market used, it's been swapped  between six different
cars and has run without missing a beat, every car that it has been installed
into has started better and gotten at least 2mpg per gallon better gas
mileage and is usually worth about a 10th in the quater.  Mallory even makes
a point type distributor conversion kit.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:44:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

In a message dated 97-02-21 09:57:55 EST, you write:

> Is it a Delta eighty
>  eight, eight eight, or 8-8 ?"

That depends on the year.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:44:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Manuals

In a message dated 97-02-21 20:33:37 EST, you write:

> thought you all would like to know that Lansing Lithographers doesn't
>  carry the GM Manuals anymore.  The new company is Helm Printing.  Nu,ber
>  is 800-551-4123.  Just called and ordered up a set of manuals for my
>  442!
>
>  ---Matt
>

Thanks, Matt.  I was looking for a number to contact LL to get an owner's
manual for my Dad's 92 Eighty Eight Royale.  Now I know where to call.  You
can take great satisfaction in the fact that you helped out a fellow
Oldsmobiler today!

Paul

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:46:02 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 problems

At 06:25 PM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>My 307Y has been well maintained and never abused.  It started using oil at
>36000 miles.  By 46000 miles it is consuming a quart to 400 miles.  It seems
>excessive for valve seals.  It is not the only 87 I've heard of doing this.
Any
>ideas or easy fixes?
>Thanks
>Pat
>
>
Everything is usually an easy fix.  The hard part is figuring out what is
wrong, to fix!  If you've got worn valve guides, and need seals, you car
will usually look like a mosquito fogger when it moves down the lane,
especially with a loss rate of 2.5qt/1k miles.  If you don't have a blue
exhaust look elsewhere.

Is the car dripping?  Put a sheet of newspaper centered under the engine
over night, after having been well run.

The most common 'leaking' area on an GM V8 is the rocker cover gaskets.  A
fuel pump that is going bad, has some crazy symptoms too, which include
leaking oil.  Oil can leak right thru the cast iron of the block, fairly
rare, although not unheard of.  Pan gaskets and main seals can leak but that
is fairly rare, although not unheard of either.

Send us some additional data, and we can supply more answers.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:54:13 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

At 10:21 PM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
> Buick had it's very own engine designs all through the v-8 era up until
>about 1976 when GM really started to swap engine makes between GM model cars.
> as far as i know BOP only refers to the bolt patterns on the rear of the
>engines for the transmission bellhousings
>
>

Ok guys, transmission question.  Why is it called a BOP flange, as Cadillac
uses it too?

Just curious,

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret service automobile leasing (humor)

Kevin Wong wrote:
>
> >      The vehicles required shall be Model year 1997 or later, and shall be
> >      equipped with the following: V8 engines with 275 or more horsepower;
> >      Rear wheel drive; Four (4) wheel anti-lock breaking system; The wheel
> >      base shall be less than one-hundred and five (105) inches; Four (4)
>
> Why don't they just come out and say they want a Must*ng C*bra, Camar*
> Z28, Fir*bird, or C*rvette?  Do they honestly think they'll be offered a
> Ferr*ri F355, B*nz SL500, Jagu*r XK8, L*tus or any other high priced auto
> to be subject to the follies of some driving course?  Wait a minute... the
> car needs to be capable of using P245/50 tires, so maybe they really want
> the Jagu*r, but I don't think the leather seats will fit in with their
> cloth seat requirement.  Oh, another limitation: "Limited slip rear axle".
> I guess that excludes all the IRS cars.  If that didn't discount them, the
> 4 speed automatic transmission stipulation would have eliminated the
> Ferr*ri, Jagu*r, L*tus, and SL500 anyways.  So, back to my original point:
> why didn't they just say "give us the best lease" on a C*bra, Z28, or
> F*rmula?  BTW, does anyone know if the snake comes with leather only
> seating?  If that is the case, they should have made an LT1 engine
> mandatory. :)
>
> Kevin Wong

They (U.S.Government) are looking for the lowest bidder to save taxpayer
dollars for there training program.  I would like to see who gets the
bid.
					John Foster

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:00:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 09:46 PM 2/21/97 -0400, evans1@serv01.net-link.net wrote:

>>Mike,  Start screaming man, cause, a couple of us care.  If you don't think
>>it's important to correctly say the name of your coveted car, what do you
>>think is important?  What really makes me want to scream is when I see a
post >>entitled "No Subject".  That's absurd, who can't be creative enough to
title >>their remarks so we can decide if we want to read them.
Escape442@aol.com >> >>Ed-- > >When the primary focus of your life becomes
whether someone says "Four Four >Two" or "Four Forty Two"...you just have
way, way too much free time on your >hands, man!

Amen! There are so many more things in life worth worrying about that how
someone pronounes the name of my car. My view on it is this: I paid for the
car, the car is mine, so I will pronounce it the way I want to. If someone
pronounces the name of my car wrong what will I do? Whip him/her with the
aluminum driveshaft off my Z/28 until they get it right:) This reminds me of
a discussion on the f-list a year ago on whether or not it should be Z28,
Z/28, Z-28, or Zee28....ugh!
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason (call my car four-hundred forty two and I will kick your @ss:) Labay
93 Camaro Z/28.........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:09:19 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
>
>  Buick had it's very own engine designs all through the v-8 era up until
> about 1976 when GM really started to swap engine makes between GM model
cars. >  as far as i know BOP only refers to the bolt patterns on the rear of
the > engines for the transmission bellhousings

Sir,

	Oldsmobile was sued for putting chevy engines in 1973 cutlass's
when olds could not keep up with consumer demand(in the olds engine
department).

					John Foster

------------------------------

From: Lance Mackey <lamackey@sns-access.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:26:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheets

At 08:58 AM 2/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Cecil asked where he can find the build sheet on his 91 Calais W-41.
>Look between the foam rubber cusion and the metal pan of the front
>seats.  Also check under the back seat.  I used to do upholstery repair
>for the local B-O-P dealer and have found a ton (ok maybe a few ounces,
>but certainly a lot)of build sheets in the late model GM cars.  Any I
>found were in the seat to the point that you have to disassemble the
>seat to get them.  They are usualy hog ringed to the foam.
>
>I hope this helps,
>Dave Wyatt
>70  4-4-2

On my '86 Camaro I found a build sheet under the drivers seat, one under
the rear bumper facia, and one stuffed in the engine compartment where the
fenders meet the firewall. They were all for different sections of the car.
Look around, you might get lucky and find a goldmine.


Happy Cruzin'

Lance Mackey
lamackey@3rdplanet.com
http://www.3rdplanet.com/~lamackey/hurst_hp.html ('68 Hurst/Olds website)

'67 Supreme post UHC 330
'68 Hurst/Olds (original family)
'59 Chevy Viking
'63 Nova 400
'69 Camaro SS396
'70 Camaro 350/300hp
'86 Camaro 502 (original owner)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:23:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

I think if this subject is discussed ten or fifteen more days then all the
hungry people of the Earth will be fed, the homeless will have shelter, and
all the warring nations will declare peace. That's just how important this
subject is.

Art Fuller
'70 442 Convt.
'70 four forty-two coupe, or whatever anybody wants to call it.

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:24:54 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
>
>  Buick had it's very own engine designs all through the v-8 era up until
> about 1976 when GM really started to swap engine makes between GM model
cars. >  as far as i know BOP only refers to the bolt patterns on the rear of
the > engines for the transmission bellhousings

Gentlemen,

	Oldsmobile was sued and lost for putting chevy engines in some 1973
Cutlass's.  Olds could not keep up with comsumer demand
in the engine department, so some owners sued olds for putting chevy
engines in their Oldsmobiles and won.  The Olds 350 is better than the
chevy 350.

					John Foster

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:36:09 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, John Foster wrote:
> 	Oldsmobile was sued and lost for putting chevy engines in some 1973
> Cutlass's.  Olds could not keep up with comsumer demand
> in the engine department, so some owners sued olds for putting chevy
> engines in their Oldsmobiles and won.  The Olds 350 is better than the
> chevy 350.

Actually, it was 1976. They settled out of court, no verdict was reached
as far as I know. No argument on the last point you make though.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:54:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 442

>
> Well, then, what about the 747 Jet????  (pronounced
> "four fourty seven")
>
> p.s.  Perhaps a better way to use that excessively spare
> time????!!!!

What does 747 stand for? I know that it was preceeded by the 707 so that
sounds sequencial. There were no 4-4-0s or 3-3-1s. Four bbl, Four speeds
and Two exhaust. Later 400 cubes, 4 bbl, 2 exhaust.

P.S. I say 7-4-7. :)

Danny

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:54:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Front Drive Differentials

doug thompson wrote:
>
> yes toros do have diffs and the early ones are getting to find.

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:14:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Whats in a name??  was Re: 442

Scott R Clark wrote:
>
> >         Oldsmobile had a slight fixation on military/NASA
> > nomenclature.
> > Examples F-85, J-2, W-30, Rocket, Starfire etc. ad
> > nauseum. In the good
> > old pre PC world violent or agressive names sold.
>
>         Has anybody else noticed that Dodge (of all makes) has been using
> thoes types of names for cars again?

I think d*dge had some of the most agressive sounding names b*rr*cud*,
ch*llenger, d*rt, s*per c*mmando, s*voy, imp*rial, ch*rger ad nauseum.

c*rvette, lightly armed warship. Cutlass, curved steel weapon. Sound
aggresive? You bet!

Danny

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:37:08 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

  Sir,
          A law suite is just fine -- please explain the Olds 350 in my 78
Seville or the Buick 231 V6 in many many post '76 Monte Carlos and Cutlasses,
or even the Chevy 305's and 350's in 83 up firebirds

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:54:08 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

At 07:12 PM 2/21/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Yai think your right!
>But Even at 5 feet my car seem to be new! :)

I think we all think that way!


>I see your Delta 88 royale 1975!
>And mine is something like this! But mine don`t have white leather in
>the
>interior!Its black something like suede! :)

Thanks, but mine's not leather, either.  It's white vinyl.



Dan




************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

At 12:37 AM 2/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>  Sir,
>          A law suite is just fine -- please explain the Olds 350 in my 78
>Seville or the Buick 231 V6 in many many post '76 Monte Carlos and Cutlasses,
>or even the Chevy 305's and 350's in 83 up firebirds
>
>

It's simply that GM has gone corporate.  It may have been a Ch*vy 305 or
350, but it's a GM Corporate 305 or 350 now.  They looked at Chrysler and
just fell into line I suspect.

And I suspect that a Ch*vy 350 was less expensive than the Olds.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:04:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

At 01:38 PM 2/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
> The 403 has very thin cylinder walls and the bore is so big that it can
>only be safely bored .020. Even at this you must leave off the chamfer to
>help start the rings in or the head gasket will over hang the bore. I don't
>know if anyone has come up with a special gasket to help overcome this
>problem or not.

Hmmm, I had absolutely no problem putting together my .030" over 403 last
summer, and the headgasket cleared the cylinder bore quite well, so
apparently the "special" gasket needed is simply a 403 replacement.

The ones in good condition I saw were ranging from about $200, through $2000
for fully-built and heavily modified ones.

Look in the big BOP cars from 1977-1979; _ALL_ the 403's are essentially the
same (no hp version, even when put in the Trans Am).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: HippieJ@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:40:50 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

In a message dated 97-02-21 09:53:57 EST, you write:

<< Are the 350 and the 400 used in late 60's Buicks (in particular '69) a
 Buick/Olds/Pontiac motor?  I know it differs from the Chevy engine.
 What about the 455 big block used in Buick (like the Stage I's, GS's
 etc.)?  Was it the same motor Olds used as well?
 I noticed the intakes on the 350's are pretty wide -- will it accept
 the 400 or 455 intake?
  >>
I'm not an expert on this, but I'll put in my thoughts/two cents. The
Buick/Olds/Pontiac all share a common bellhousing pattern. That's pretty much
is were all similarites end. The Buick 455 has the distributer mounted on the
front of the block, whereas Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs are rear mounted.
Pontiac 455
4 bolts holding valve covers
6 bolts for the exhaust manifolds
seperate lifter valley pan/intake manifold
Oldsmobile 455
10 bolts for valve covers
5 bolts for exhaust manifolds
Buick 455
thermostat housing faces forward
4 bolts for valve covers

Olds big blocks have a taller deck height then the small blocks. A 455 intake
probably  wouldn't fit without some sort of spacer.
Hopefully I've remembered all of this correctly, if not I'm sure someone will
point out where I went wrong.

John
84 Olds Cutlass Supreme  307 V-8
the 79 Cutlass finally died and went to "heaven"

As usual, a knife wielding maniac has shown us the way. - Bart Simpson

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:01:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 11:00 PM 2/21/97 -0400, Jason Labay wrote:
<Snip>
>This reminds me of
>a discussion on the f-list a year ago on whether or not it should be Z28,
>Z/28, Z-28, or Zee28....ugh!

If its a 4th generation Camaro, then it *is* pronounced "Zed28".  Remember
that those f-bodies are all made in Quebec, Canada ;')

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:06:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442

In a message dated 97-02-21 18:15:41 EST, you write:

<< 	Has anybody else noticed that Dodge (of all makes) has been using
 thoes types of names for cars again?  Things like Avenger (sounds cool,
 was also a WWII torpedo bomber) and the Intrepid (as in U.S.S Intrepid)
 and Viper (again, sounds *very* cool, and even has car to match!)
 Oldsmobile still has a couple of good ones, like the Aurora, Cutlass, and
 even Intrigue sound cool (and we'd all like to see the return of 442
 however you want to say it :). Still, it's hard to top names like
 Starfire, Jetfire, Satalite, Wildcat, etc.
 	
 				Scott
 			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
  >>

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:08:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442

In a message dated 97-02-21 18:15:41 EST, Scott wrote:

<<
 	Has anybody else noticed that Dodge (of all makes) has been using
 thoes types of names for cars again?  Things like Avenger (sounds cool,
 was also a WWII torpedo bomber) and the Intrepid (as in U.S.S Intrepid)
 and Viper (again, sounds *very* cool, and even has car to match!)
 Oldsmobile still has a couple of good ones, like the Aurora, Cutlass, and
 even Intrigue sound cool (and we'd all like to see the return of 442
 however you want to say it :). Still, it's hard to top names like
 Starfire, Jetfire, Satalite, Wildcat, etc.


Well... aren't aurora just pretty lights seen from a distance??

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:02:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Whats in a name?? was Re: 442

At 04:06 AM 2/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-02-21 18:15:41 EST, you write:
>
><< 	Has anybody else noticed that Dodge (of all makes) has been using
> thoes types of names for cars again?  Things like Avenger (sounds cool,
> was also a WWII torpedo bomber) and the Intrepid (as in U.S.S Intrepid)
> and Viper (again, sounds *very* cool, and even has car to match!)
> Oldsmobile still has a couple of good ones, like the Aurora, Cutlass, and
> even Intrigue sound cool (and we'd all like to see the return of 442
> however you want to say it :). Still, it's hard to top names like
> Starfire, Jetfire, Satalite, Wildcat, etc.
> 	
> 				Scott
> 			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
>  >>
>
>
>

In a time long long ago, the Royal house of of D*dge was staying at the
Meadowbrook Town and Country club, when they stood alone against the
Challenger.  Our Valiant Royal Lancer, now a Wayfarer for crown and country
was on his way to Monaco to present his Diplomat Medallion in his service to
the Senaca Dynasty.  He could tell the hour was getting late, as he was
casting a long Shadow, and now leading his fine Charger between the Aspen
trees, until he reached the summit, where the Crestwood was found.  As it
was the Custom since Pioneer days to attend a bullfight to honor the
Matador, as he completed his Conquest over the bull, always the finest
animal that the farm of Saint Regis could provide.  However, on this day, as
if the Phoenix was rising from the ashes, the bull did not die, but proved
to be a real Swinger.  The picadors stuck one Dart after another into the
bull, and still he would not be turned into 600 pounds of hamburger. One of
the crew went to his locker and got his Colt .44 Magnum and dispatched the
poor critter, but not before his Spirit was sent to the Polara, and his
ashes, reduced to 400 pounds of soot, was sent by Omni-bus to the mountains
of the western Sierra, where the Airflow was just right, and where his ashes
would not be bothered by the cross of African and domestic denizens of the
apairy; as this Super Bee would not let the poor bull have his final rest.
After the arena everyone whet to the beach for some sun, but arrived after
dark, and all that could be seen was the constellation of Aires in the night
sky.  This as every Tradesman knows, is the norm for Daytona Beach.  After
the beach they rode home in a Caravan of Broughams, up Mirada avenue to the
house at number 880.

If by cool, you mean 'not so hot!"

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
>
> If its a 4th generation Camaro, then it *is* pronounced "Zed28".
> Remember that those f-bodies are all made in Quebec, Canada ;')

So it would be classed as a Zed-Sled?

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
>
> I think if this subject is discussed ten or fifteen more days then all
> the hungry people of the Earth will be fed, the homeless will have
> shelter, and all the warring nations will declare peace. That's just
> how important this subject is.

Followed by a big celebration where we all email
each other the lyrics to "We are the World".

    Six-Six Toro
The /\        /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:00:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
>
> At 11:00 PM 2/21/97 -0400, Jason Labay wrote:
> <Snip>
> >This reminds me of
> >a discussion on the f-list a year ago on whether or not it should be Z28,
> >Z/28, Z-28, or Zee28....ugh!
>
> If its a 4th generation Camaro, then it *is* pronounced "Zed28".  Remember
> that those f-bodies are all made in Quebec, Canada ;')
>
> Nick DiGiovanni
> ndigiova@Direct.CA
> Port Coquitlam, B.C.
> 1970 4-4-2

Hey all, lets face it the car was a perfect "10".
Reg

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:04:00 -0400
Subject: 4-42 vs. 4-4-2: Olds related but moronic

I'm sure you've all been reading the posts on the now-infamous 4-42 vs.
4-4-2 debate, including Ed's latest reply to Mike Evans' plea for an end
to this inane debate:

>Mike,  Start screaming man, cause, a couple of us care.  If you don't think
>it's important to correctly say the name of your coveted car, what do you
>think is important?

Well, it's hard to covet what you already own.  Maybe "cherish" is more
appropriate.  Anyhow, Ed asks "what do you think is important"?  I
propose the following:

1)  Not only keeping the topic Olds-related, but keeping it above the
level of a fight in a sandbox.

2)  Allowing people like Mike Evans (and many others, including me) to
make a plea for cease-fire on a lame subject and respecting his/all of
our request(s).

3)  Remembering that when you stop educating others on a particular
topic (and this farce of a discussion on 4-4-2 vs. 4-42 is no longer
educational) you are probably starting to annoy/bore/anger others on the
list.

>What really makes me want to scream is when I see a post
>entitled "No Subject".  That's absurd, who can't be creative enough to title
>their remarks so we can decide if we want to read them.  Escape442@aol.com

Sometimes the real lack of creativity is shown in the body of the
message.  I know whose remarks I'll be skipping over in the future.

Scott Mullen
'70 Olds Four-Forty-Two

(Hey, it's my car, and I usually refer to it as "The Ghetto Cruiser".
"Four-Forty-Two" is an improvement, don't you think?)









------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:12:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Starfire curiosities

Escape - there is one in the Southern California Olds Chapter - guy is out
of Arizona and the car has absolutely no options, its a 65 and extremely
cool.  The guy wasn't around his car at the last show - I was dying to talk
to him.  It is bone stock, blue with blue cheapo interior, 394 & 4 speed
(posi if I'm not mistaken).

What a sleeper!

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:12:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-*2 vs.: Olds related but moronic

Go Ghetto Cruiser!!  Why don't we let them go on and on about this on a
more PERSONAL level, i.e. filling up each others private e-mail mailboxes?

Hey I love any and all Olds but even I'm getting a bit wearied by the 4*2
posts (and I HAVENT been reading them all)



Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:12:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 engine swap

Ira - the guy you got the VC from said the owners manual and orig.
paperwork (???) was in the glove box when it left him - do you have?  I
would like to have it if poss.

Lisa

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:45:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Request

I am forwarding this request I got to all on the list - it doesn't have
that magical 4*2 in it but hey, you guys are good at info on other things too.

Please reply to this person at their private e-mail: drosa@lix.intercom.es

Thanks to all in advance - help out our far flung Olds relations (no not
you guys in Canada) with your expertise.
I have contacted you on the Internet, and wanted to know if  you could
direct me somewhere  to oroder OLDS Omega 1980-81 13" wire hubcaps, if they
forward their wares internationally.

Delighted to have contacted you,>
> Thank you,
>
> Miguel Angel

Miguel A. De la Rosa,
URB. STGO. 5-8,
Garcilaso Vega, 40,
38005 SANTA CRUZ DE TENERIFE
Canary Is. (Spain)

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:12:21 -0400
Subject: Rear main seal 455

I've got a 2 piece rear main seal.. Was wondering if anyone has any tips
on installation.  The motor is out of the car.  The seal has 2 rubber
pieces and 2 cloth pieces.  I assume the rubber pieces go half in the
cap and half in the engine block on either side of the crank and the
cloth pieces are trimmed to fit between the two rubber pieces.  My 1969
Motors Manual doesnt say squat about the seal and there were no
directions with it.  Can anyone help?

rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:21:17 -0400
Subject: ARP main studs

I was torquing the mains down on my engine block to check clearance
with plasitgage. On the second main the brand new 1/2 inch ARP stud
snapped in half.  After alot of cursing and scratching my head I finally
decided to have my torque wrench checked.  Turns out when set at 120ft
lbs. It was torquing 180ft. lbs.. My question is this.. Yall think the
first set of studs I torqued to 180ft. lbs. can be reused?  They didnt
break. These studs are abit pricey.  Hopefully I will only have to buy
the one that broke.  Anyone have any experience with this?

rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:43:43 -0400
Subject: 307 problem history

I'd be happy to give the whole history.  I bought this car 2 1/2 years ago
with 26000 miles.  It was owned by an old couple in Milwaukee who also had a
cottage in Mercer, Wi.  It had most of its miles going to Mercer and back, a
good distance.  I have the service records. At about 36000 miles it started
using oil, about a quart every 1000 miles.  I have replaced the valve cover
gaskets, the intake manifold gaskets, and the oil pan gaskets.  All showed
signs of MINOR leakage, never even a spot of oil on the floor.  Believe it or
not, it does NOT smoke; the only signs of distress are some soot on the
bumper.  I have also gone through the entire exhaust system looking for some
signs of blockage.  I have replaced the PCV valve. I tried running a
compression test but have reasons to doubt my equipment.  If it was right,
I'm looking at about 80 psi.  I recently changed the thermostat and looked
for oil in the coolant. It doesn't leak and it doesn't smoke but its going
somewhere. Pat

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:57:36 -0400
Subject: RE: ARP main studs

Best bet is call ARP direct, no one can answer better than they can. The =
number is 1-800-826-3045. The are a very friendly and helpful bunch of =
guys.

- ----------
From: 	Kenneth G. Holland Jr.[SMTP:rottin@coil.com]
Sent: 	February 22, 1997 1:21 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	ARP main studs

I was torquing the mains down on my engine block to check clearance
with plasitgage. On the second main the brand new 1/2 inch ARP stud
snapped in half.  After alot of cursing and scratching my head I finally
decided to have my torque wrench checked.  Turns out when set at 120ft
lbs. It was torquing 180ft. lbs.. My question is this.. Yall think the
first set of studs I torqued to 180ft. lbs. can be reused?  They didnt
break. These studs are abit pricey.  Hopefully I will only have to buy
the one that broke.  Anyone have any experience with this?=20

rottin@coil.com

------------------------------

From: groves@rad.rochester.edu (John Groves)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:46:52 -0400
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe

------------------------------

From: groves@rad.rochester.edu (John Groves)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:47:43 -0400
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:04:31 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-42 vs. 4-4-2: Olds related but moronic

R Mullen wrote:
>
> 3)  Remembering that when you stop educating others on a particular
> topic (...) you are probably starting to annoy/bore/anger others on
> the list.

THAA-WANGGG!!! (sound of nail being hit on the head)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:53:24 -0400
Subject: Olds vs Chevy

  Hey Guys & Gals
                              I don't know if anybody paid any attention to
the article in Hot Rod magazine about the new Chevy 350 2nd generation LT1.
 I was looking at the pictures in the article an noted many similarities
between it and the Rocket engines we all love -- for instance GM opted to
step into the modern era with its' corporate small block by reducing the
number of bolts surrounding the cylinder from 6 to 4 -- that's someting Olds
did with the introduction of the 330 in 1964 -- Also take note that the new
GM corporate engine also has much taller and narrower intake ports much more
rectangular in shape than the traditional Chevy small block -- and finally
the shape of the combustion chamber is almost identical to almost every Olds
combustion chamber i have seen exept pre 64 engines, the only difference is
the location of the sparkplug.-- I know there are those out there that will
try to slam me on the exhaust port layout but hey ---  I still say the Olds
Rocket lives on in a varied form in the new GM corporate engine -- I'll keep
researching this

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:02:04 -0400
Subject: Remaking Olds engines

  Here i go again,
                           Just wondering what kind of market there would be
in remaking Oldsmobile cylinder blocks and head castings.  For instance an
upgraded version of all displacement blocks with 4 bolt mains and heavier
main webs or even possibly extending the main web up into the lifter valley,
or possibly the introduction of a big block Olds with a 403 cylinder bore.
 How about the reintroduction of  "C" and "F" casting heads for the big
block, and the reintroduction of  some of the better small block head
castings.
     Would there be any buyers out there -- what kind of price ranges would
be the most logical -- be reasonable.

   P.S.
           These blocks would also include the necesary oiling system
improvements that Olds engines tend to need.


------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:35:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs Chevy

At 04:53 PM 2/22/97 -0400, J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
>  Hey Guys & Gals
>                              I don't know if anybody paid any attention to
>the article in Hot Rod magazine about the new Chevy 350 2nd generation LT1.
> I was looking at the pictures in the article an noted many similarities
>between it and the Rocket engines we all love -- for instance GM opted to
>step into the modern era with its' corporate small block by reducing the
>
Interesting comparison. I never heard this brought up before, even on the
f-body list but this very well could be the case. They definitely didn't
take anything from an Olds engine with respect to changing spark plugs. On
the LT1 Z/28 if you can change all 8 in 12 hrs your are considered a pro:)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:01:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs Chevy

 er uh umm what's the F list?

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:26:57 -0400
Subject: Buick in a ch*vy?  (was Re: Buick 350, 400)

>The Buick engines in the late 60s were Buick engines.  They bolt on to Olds
>transmissions.  The 350 was a small block and the 400 was a big block.


This reminds me.  There's a hi-perf engine builder about 80 miles from me
(called Rev-Racing, as I recall)  I've never met the guy, but a friend is
having his Pont. 400 built there.  He described an engine that "would make
you sh*t, Chuck!"  It's a small v8 with Buick stamped in the rocker covers,
and ~looked~ extremely nasty.  Here's the trick:  It's a small block ch*vy
with Buick crank, rods, heads, and assorted other guts.  The guy talked
about ch*vy being GM's bastard child that used leftover parts from
everything (like AMC, I guess) so these parts are not too hard to go
together.  I don't know any other details about the engine, but it ~really~
got my imagination wonderring.  (However, I ~didn't~ have to take an
immediate trip to the restroom -- although I haven't actually ~seen~ the
engine yet...:)

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on an engine combo like this?  I don't
know much about Buick's guts, nor do I really care about ch*vy's, but it is
a really fascinating concept to me...

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #530
********************************
