To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #535


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 25 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 535

Re: 64 4-4-2 info please
Re: Engine Refresh Options?
Re: Parts for sale -Reply
Re: (no subject)
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
Re: Parts for sale -Reply
Re: 64 4-4-2 info please
Re: 1971 350 engine paint
Re: 1971 350 engine paint
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog): addendum 307 build up
Re: 64 4-4-2 info please
Re: (no subject)
Oldsmobile Chat
RE: 65 F-85
Re: Hey, anything Olds is better than nothin'
Re: 1971 350 engine paint
Re: 2-doors vs. 4? (Was Re: 80 Cutlass grille)
Re: 1971 350 engine paint
Re: Repaired antenna..........not!
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: Re[2]: Remaking Olds engines:again
Re: window motor
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......
Re: more 307
Re: Rear main seal 455
Emissions regulations (Re: Finnally I found My Peers...)
subscribe
Re: Repaired antenna
Re: Cotter pin reuse
Re: (no subject)
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
Re: Re[2]: Remaking Olds engines:again
Re: 1971 350 engine paint
Re: Rear main seal 455
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)
mismatched engine building advice needed
Re: Emissions regulations (Re: Finnally I found My Peers...)
50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: M-21 problems
442 & Toro ads (was 64 4-4-2 info please)
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
RE: 64 4-4-2 info please
Re: Cotter pin reuse
Re: Water Wetter
Re[2]: 64 4-4-2 info please
Subject: Cotter pin reuse
Re: window motor
Re: Hey, anything Olds is better than nothin'
Re: 394 for sale...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:14:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 4-4-2 info please

jeff, the 4-4-2's from '64 thru '67 were an option on any f-85 or
cutlass. in 64 there were even a few 4 doors with the option, i think it
was B69?  its hard to document because the vin wont show the option. can
you find the build sheet? i think the car sounds like a great find
anyway!!! p/s after 64 you couldn't get a 4 door 4-4-2. boy just think
of the debates on proper pronunciation with that combo! any way maybe
supercars unlimited or others might the serial numbers of the carb to
verify its a 4-4-2.  good luck, doug '67 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:25:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Refresh Options?

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> At 09:54 AM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >     I have used the 2 piece 460 Ford rear main instead of the rope. It
works > >great and is not nearly as hard as the rope seal. I don't think you
could use > >a one piece seal if they made one( would't fit over the flywheel
flange). You > >can install this with the crank in the car you just have to be
paitent. > >
Steve > > > > > I went to F*rd, bought the part, but have not opened the
package.  I will > look at it the next time I'm in the shop however,
curiousity has my > attention over this one. > > The Wiz > 	folks,

	I used a ford  2 piece rubber rear main seal in my 67 400 cu in
442 engine and have had no problems.  I first read about it in HOT ROD
magizine.  They were building a sleeper 1972? cutlass with a 455
engine.  They also used the thicker oil pan gaskets for the olds 350
diesel th help prevent future leaks.

					John Foster

------------------------------

From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:25:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale -Reply

John Schumacher wrote:
>
> Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> >
> > >>> Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net> 02/22/97 08:55pm >>>
> > >>69 442 4 spoke aluminum sport steering wheel......$95
> > >
> > >Ninety five bucks?!  They're not ~that~ rare, are they??
> >
> > Dave, if you've been wanting one of those, I'd recommend snagging it.
> > They *are* getting harder to come by.  I paid $135 for mine (I'm probably
> > one of the poorest people on the list), and I had to paint the hub and
> > button to make it match... But I still think it was worth every penny --
> > because it was in excellent condition.  If I didn't already have one, I'd
have > > bought this one by now... > > > > If you still have doubts, try
calling Brother's Automotive and asking them for > > a price on a used one.
When I called 6 months ago, they were wanting > > $180.  I laughed and hung
up. > > > > -Blaine > > I thought the sport wheel for a '69 was a three spoke
plastic/rubber > type.  Although Art Fuller has never found me one to look at.


I have a 69 442 convertible.  It has a three spoked wheel....not four.
To the best of my knowledge the four spoke wheels came out in 1970.  The
three spoke wheels are pricey and go for as high as $150-200 at flea
markets and shows.....they are also rare.  wayne schwartz

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:21:08 -0400
Subject: Re: (no subject)

In a message dated 97-02-23 22:44:21 EST, you write:

> Does that car still have an "I" beam?  I can't imagine that.  It must have
IFS.
>
>
>  Huh says the Wiz
>

Independant Front Suspension.  I had to grasp for that one, it required a lot
of thought for a Sunday nite when it's time for bed.  Anyway, if I remember
right instead of having ball joints I think these older models have what are
called kingpins.  Does that sound right?  I think I remember my '52 having
these (or having whatever they were called).  Don't know when they stopped
using them.  My '52 also had the knee action from shocks instead of
tube-type.

Paul

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:42:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

 I would get some cylinder heads from a 67 330 and have them drilled to
accept the larger head bolts -- the heads would receive a Mondello brackett
porting job and be fitted with the 1.995 intake valves and 1.62 ex.
  The heads would be cc'd and milled for a true 9.5:1 compression ratio
  The camshaft would be a Mondello JM-22-25 cam which works out to 274 deg
intake duration and 280 deg exhaust duration, intake lift of  .523" and
exhaust lift of .541" and lobe ceters of 110 degrees.
  A full roller adjustable valve train will be installed.
  Complete Mondello oiling system with a full length windage tray and crank
scraper.
  The intake manifold will be a slightly modified Edlebrock Performer RPM
with the plenum divider ground away 2" wide and 1" deep.
600 cfm Holley double pumper and mechanical pump
Mallory Unilite distributor and coil
Hooker headders 1-5/8" pri and 3" coll.
the short block would receive the traditional hot treatment  ie. prepped
rods, forged pistons, zero gap moly rings, and of course a forged 330 crank.
  For the transmission i would use a full manual TH350 with a 3500 stall
converter and the differential would be a Ford 9" with gears ranging from
4.33:1 to 4.88:1 depending on the altitude at which i would race for
starters.
  I think that would be one hot little 307 and i would keep the shift points
between 6500 rpm and 7000
  So there you have it

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:44:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale -Reply

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
>
> John,
> That's pretty low. Okay, I got one for you to look at. Now, what are you
going > to comment about? I'll bring it Thursday evening. > > Art

Art,

I am also looking for a 1969 sport steering wheel in black.  Do you have
another one? and how much?

			John Foster

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:44:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 4-4-2 info please

At 08:32 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok kids, here's the deal...
>
>I found a '64 Olds 442 over the weekend.  It has (1)20,000 miles on
>it according to the odometer.  It's in pretty good shape.  Probably
>#4 condition.  2 door hardtop, buckets, console, factory tach,
>factory 4 speed, dual snorkle(?) aircleaner, etc.  However, it seems
>to be based on an F-85 as opposed to the Cutlass.  It has F-85 badges
>on the front and the steering wheel, along with 442 emblems on the
>front fenders.
>
>The car looks to be very original.  Everything is worn evenly.  That
>is to say, no shiny emblems on dull fenders and such.  Seats are a
>little threadbare, but not torn up.  No aftermarket add-ons or
>amature "customizing" that I can see.  Body is straight, but right-
>front fender appears to have been repaired at some time.  No rust
>that I can see (I didn't crawl under it or anything).
>
>My question is... does it sound like an real 442 to you experts out
>there?  For some reason, the flyer that went with the car has it
>listed as a " '64 F-85 4-speed " and not a 442.  I copied the S/N,
>but forgot to bring it into work with me.  Seemed to me it had
>3 numbers, then the letter "H", then a 6 digit number.
>
>They were asking $3750 for the car.  Opinions anyone???
>
>Jeff King ('61 Olds Super 88)
>

Jeff,

        I've had one of these cars and I also grew up around one. I came
home from the hospital in a brand new Blue/Green 64 442 F-85 Club Coupe. I
was always fascinated with that car. Yes you could get the 442 option (B09)
on any A-Body 2 door and 4 door. No wagons. Olds lists 8 civilian models of
the F-85 Deluxe 4 door being built. This was basically a police car option.
Some things to do to verify the 442 status are (some of the items you
mentioned plus):

1) Look for any type of documentation for the car. (Window Sticker, invoice
etc.) This is really then only true way to verify this car. The are very
easily copied.

2) Do a title search and try to find the original owner and ask him some
questions.

3) Engine should have #1 cylinder heads if original and look at the date
codes on the intake manifold for the year produced.

4) Should have boxed lower rear control arms and a sway bar. These were
usually the only cars of this series to get one.

That's what I had to do to find some of the original paperwork for the car.
He had the invoice for the car still after all those years. Overall the
price doesn't sound too bad as long as it's intack. Hope this info helps some.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:50:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 1971 350 engine paint

  Check Plasti-kote Cadillac gold -- its a little bright at first but it
mellows out after a couple of days --- don't ask me why i don't know
  You can get it at Pep Boys -- Kragen, Checker, or Shucks
hope that helps
  by the way Ford red is real close to Oldsmobile red

------------------------------

From: "Todd Wallin" <twallin@grant.tds.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:08:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 1971 350 engine paint

For correct color engine  paint for muscle era and after oldsmobiles
try

Supercars Unlimited
8029 A SW 17th
Portland, Oregon 97219-2857
phone 503-244-8249

they guarantee the correct color and price isn't bad
$7.99 per can
64-76 330/350 gold  p.n. 14-214
65-69 400  bronze p.n. 14-218
68-69 455 red (Hurst/Olds) p.n. 14-260
70-76 455 blue p.n. 14-216

Todd Wallin
twallin@grant.tds.net

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:15:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog): addendum 307 build up


 I ran the 307 on my engine dyno simulator and it made 421 hp @ 7000 rpm and
355 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm.
  I then grabbed my handy dandy calculator kit at did a little automotive
math.
In a 3700 lb car that little engine theoretically could run around 12.02 ET
at about 113 mph
 And in a 3400 lb car it could theoretically run around 11.68 ET at about
116.63 mph
 Not bad i would think for just a schmucky little 307 eh?

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:19:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 4-4-2 info please

  Who cares -- 4spd 64 Olds? -- maaannn if i had a place to put it and the
cash that car would be mine  --- anybody want to buy a couple of cats and
some Olds parts???

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:25:21 -0400
Subject: Re: (no subject)

  My 56 had the independant kingpin suspension -- but i think the kingpins
were starting to seize up because it was a little bit like driving a boat in
a straight line -- you have to kind of bump it left right left right to go in
the general direction you want

------------------------------

From: "Todd Wallin" <twallin@grant.tds.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:33:39 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile Chat

If anyone is interested in chatting with me about oldsmobiles or cars
in general pick up a compy of powow at www.tribal.com and then my
address is twallin@grant.tds.net I would like to set up a conference
but can not dedicate my computer 24/7 so I guess I will just have to
organize it here if you need help just email adress is the same as
powwow address twallin@grant.tds.net

thanks,
Todd Wallin

------------------------------

From: Olds455cut@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:43:37 -0400
Subject: RE: 65 F-85

I came across a two door 1965 F-85 for $2,500.  The car has no rust, good
chrome and a straight body.  The guy said that the car belong to a guy who
died at 93 years old and sat for the last 7 years.  The car has 43,000 miles
and the guy selling the car has the original bias ply tires.  The car is in
NJ if any one is interested.

Is this car worth $2,500?  Also, can a 455/TH400 fit in this car?  Thanks.
  Jerry.

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:11:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Hey, anything Olds is better than nothin'

Gee, I get so few chances to actually use that three years of Latin in high
school and that wonderful Jesuit education.

So what does "De gustibus non disputandem est" mean?

Well, the original comment by someone, who I will kindly not name, that hated
the Kathy Mattea 455 Rocket song prompted me to remember that phrase stuck
back in my cob web ridden brain.

It translates to "concerning taste, there is no disputing" or more along the
lines of spoken North American, "there is no accounting for taste." As in one
fellow's passion in another's dislike.

Some other goodies are:

semini sectores - splitting hairs

illegitimi non carborundum - don't let the bastards get you down.

We could have some fun with that one.  You could insert your least favorite
group in the beginning of the phrase and change it to, oh, how about  "Chevi
illegitimi non carborundum", don't the C*evy bastards get you down.

One more, this is fun.

Well, this isn't real Latin.  It was not proper to use profanity in the
presence of ordained priest professors so we made up one they never did
catch. The word is "bomnias".  The word for "all" in Latin is onmia.  Every
time we screwed up something, like an experiment in the physics or chem lab,
we'd yell BOMNIAS!   You figure it out.

End of Olds realted Latin lesson.

After all, this is an _Olds_ list.  :-))  A little culture can't hurt.  Heh,
heh.

Isn't it amazing the things one remembers, particularly when compared to what
you've forgotten?!

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:08:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 1971 350 engine paint

In a message dated 97-02-24 18:41:51 EST, you write:

<< I Don't want to spend nine-bucks a can for Fusick paint... anybody got a
 brand name and a color code for me for gold 350 engine paint?
 				David Nye
 				'71 Cutlass Droptop
  >>
Go to Murry's or simalar auto parts store and buy Ford Gold engine paint.  It
is very
close to the orig color.  Its made by Dupli-color

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:21:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 2-doors vs. 4? (Was Re: 80 Cutlass grille)

>
> Well, I'm not going to try to speak for most people, but IMHO, I've
> owned 2-doors and 4-doors, and if the company can style a nice and
> attractive 4-door, I'll buy it.
>
> The advantage to 2-doors is often that the car _looks_ better: smoother
> or swoopier or something; if you put four doors on it, your roofline
> has to be kicked up a bit higher in the back since you may actually
> have people back there. But with a 4-door, I can have people entering
> and exiting my car without having to climb all over the seatbacks and
> generally contort themselves into weird positions to get there. And I
> like my cars, so I _want_ people to ride in them and enjoy them, too.
> And finally, the driver's door of a 4-door is usually a lot shorter
> than a 2-door, making my entry and exit a lot easier in tight areas.


I agree with what you say. However, my point was that "you are getting a
four door whether you like it or not" attitude.

Danny

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:36:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 1971 350 engine paint

David Nye wrote:
>
> I Don't want to spend nine-bucks a can for Fusick paint... anybody got a
> brand name and a color code for me for gold 350 engine paint?
>                                 David Nye
>                                 '71 Cutlass Droptop


NAPA used to carry Olds gold and blue engine paint. I think you would
have to special order it. It cost about 4 or 5 bucks.

Danny

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:23:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Repaired antenna..........not!

At 00:27 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey guys, need your help again with my '84 Hurst. I replaced the antenna
>lead that wraps in to the spool on the motor,old one snapped and antenna
>wouldn't move. When I put it all back together, I plugged the motor back to
>its harness and it immediately wound up and retracted the antenna like it
>should when radio is off and antenna is extended. After almost completely
>buttoning everything back up, I figured I should try and see if it extends
>correctly when I turn the radio on. Don't you knoww......nothing. Checked
>all fuses, connections and plugs. Appears nothing out of place. Tried a few
>more times, no luck. I undo everything again and pull the motor back out.
>Opened motor back up and checked
>what I could. I cleaned the armature and brushes, cleaned the two sets of
>contact points, cleaned and lubed worm and gear and made sure everything
>worked manually. I reassembled it again with antenna half extended, or for
>you pessimists here, half retracted :). When I plugged it back up (I was
>smart this time, I didn't remount under fender, just in case!!!!) it again
>reeled in the
>retracted mast like it should. I turned the radio on and......nothing. When
>the mast stopped working a while back I noticed the antenna motor ran on
and on.
>It took me about 4-5 minutes to what was going on and what to do about it. I
>unplugged the 3 prong plug going to the motor assy. I've disconnected
>nothing else so I'm at a loss as to why it doesn't extend the mast, but will
>retract it.
>Any ideas would be appreciated and put to use.
>
>
 At this point the next thing to do is go after the relay that supplies the
power to the motor.  A burnt or bad contact can cause the same condition.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: olivier thibault <olivier@9bit.qc.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:49:01 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

Daniel A. Gulino wrote:
>
> At 04:04 AM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Anyway your car is in a pretty shape!
> >I hope the motor look like the body! :)
> >
> >
> >Olivier
> >Delta 88 Royale 1976
>
> Thanks.  The engine is reasonable, but could definitely use a cleaning and
> so forth.  I plan to do as much as possible before driving to Lansing in
> August.
>
> ************************************************
> Dan Gulino
> gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
> http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
> 1975 Delta 88 Convertible
> ************************************************

Cool! :)

Do u have any idea what worth an Olds delta 88 1973 2 doors ?
In a very good condition ?

Ive see one near my town who was on sale i will buy it too i think!
I will have 2 olds delta 88! :)

But my mother say that cars take too more place :(((
She said:No more than 2 of your car in the parking :(((
And i already got 2 so... :(

(In case your wondering:Yes i stay at the familial house,
and i have only 19 years,and yes English is not my primay language!
I speak French! :) )

But i have found some parkings near me, i have a lot of friends! :)

Olivier
Olds Delta 88 Royale 1976

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Remaking Olds engines:again

At 01:13 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>  If there is anybody out there who knows of  any foundries or has any info
>on founding or on the casting process -- Please let me know.  Ive been
>surfing the net and sending email but so far no response to any of my
>inquiries.
>  And for that matter ---- any pattern makers out there???
>
>
Go on the Altavista search engine.  www.altavista.digital.com

In the search space, look for "Thomas Register."

Go down the 'hits' until you find Thomas Register Home Page, last night I
found it early on the first page of hits, maybe nos. 2 or 3 or 4.

You will need to get a key word and pass word, which are free.

In the Register's search space put in 'foundry' 'casting' or 'casthing
equipment and supplies'

You will find several.

There is an outfit called 'International Foundry" I think in Phoenix.  I
spoke to him about casting some small parts for me.  He sounds very capable,
but the power went off, and I lost his phone number in my phone, so I do not
have it anymore.  There are lots of small foundries in the U.S. and finding
one should not be too difficult.  This lead came from my ad not the Thomas
Register, however.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: window motor

At 03:42 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>well my window is stuck in the down position and will not go up i was
>wondering if anyone had suggestions on how i could fix or replace it...(maybe
>someone is trying to sell one) still looking for the light covers too...
>
>
What kind of window is it?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......

At 04:01 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello everyone, I am a Oldsmobile owner . Until now I honestly thought I was
>the only person alive that wanted to do up his OLDS. I have searched high and
>low for parts info. Engine swap info, accesories and so on. Every magazine I
>picked up was for chevy,chevy,chevy. I got so annoyed at that. I own a 86
>Cutlass Supreme with a  307 in it. I want to either rebiuld my stock engine
>or find a suitable sub. My biggest problem is the ECM and the fact that I
>have to stay emission legal. I am in the military, and I move almost as much
>as you guys change your underware (ha-ha). I would like to keep my car a
>everyday driver, but I also want street performance. I have already done the
>interior and so forth. I have to admit, the car really looks cherry however,
>I need to make her healthy. PLEASE help me get there with this project. I
>have already found a bunch of info. on your site and for that I thank you.I
>have found Mondello's article on building a 307 and now I have to look up the
>actual article to see what he says about it. Anyway send me all your
>suggestions and believe me I will take it all to heart and appreciate all
>your help. Send it to OSSIPEE104@aol.com. Thanks again and this is a
>excellent site. Don't let anything happen to it because I at least will refer
>back to this often. Later !!!!!!
>
>
Build a 455 halfway between mild and and a wild child.  Shouldn't cost much,
to keep the more bang for the buck in mind, and performance will seem to
double.  Also, keep all the 307 stuff with the engine, like the carb air
cleaner with all those 307 decals.  Just make sure it meets emissions before
you have it 'offically' checked.

It takes a super Olds man to know that the 307 is gone, and something 'else'
under the hood, and as long as what is coming out the exhaust is within
specs, no one is going to look.  The first time I had an emissions check on
my 455 transplant, the checker said "not bad numbers, almost what they were
when the car was new, especially for a car with 100,000+ miles.

The Wiz


The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:16:19 -0400
Subject: Re: more 307

At 04:02 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Wiz,
>        These were warranty engine replacements. When out of warranty they
>become customer pay which pays about 16 hours if I remember right. Don't ask
>why warranty and customer pay is different it is still the same job. Also
>Cadillac had a tech bullentin that stated 1 qt per 1000 miles was considered
>normal oil consumption which I don't think is right. Try telling sombody who
>spent between 40-50k on a car this.
>                  Steve
>1967 442
>1970 442
>1973 442
>1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham
>
>
>
I have a piece of genuine Cadillac literature.  It says that one can expect
to get 100 miles on but a single GALLON of motor oil.

Times have changed.

Thanks for the update.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:20:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Rear main seal 455

At 04:58 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:
>>
>> I've got a 2 piece rear main seal.. Was wondering if anyone has any tips
>> on installation.  The motor is out of the car.  The seal has 2 rubber
>> pieces and 2 cloth pieces.  I assume the rubber pieces go half in the
>> cap and half in the engine block on either side of the crank and the
>> cloth pieces are trimmed to fit between the two rubber pieces.  My 1969
>> Motors Manual doesnt say squat about the seal and there were no
>> directions with it.  Can anyone help?
>>
>> rottin@coil.com
>
>I installed a two-piece "neopreme" (not sure of spelling) seal on my
>445.  Make sure the seal angle "\" is facing toward the motor. If not it
>will leak.  Also I wouldn't do any trimming on it, it will seal tight
>when the main cap is torqued.
>
>
I think is neoprene.  When a seal is backwards it often need not be there at
all.  I won't have a chance to look at the new one I bought until the
weekend, when I start to re-install my LT1.  And will tell you what I got
after looking.  I bought it from a F*rd parts counter from application, and
didn't bother to look as I have the 455 on hold.  I need to get the LT1 back
in, and I have no place for the 455 not that I disposed of the Caprice I
intended to get it.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:28:54 -0400
Subject: Emissions regulations (Re: Finnally I found My Peers...)

Charley Buehner wrote:
> to the laws.  Does the '86 have the smog pump going to the exhaust manifolds
> (The AIR system)  It seems to me GM gave up on it somewhere along the
> line...  You can get headers for it, and tap fittings for the air lines and

Oh my!  Charley has succumbed to the Ch*vy Propaganda Squad (CPS)!!  :)
Olds has AIR tubing leading to ports in the heads, Cadillac has the ports
and passages internal to the heads (there is a single tube entering at the
front) - what did Pontiac and Buick do?

> blueprint the assy. and do a mild port job on the heads (anyone have ideas
> on how headporting will affect emissions???)  Forged pistons would be

The emissions tests aren't concerned with WOT operation, so the
potentially increased NOx levels here wouldn't matter.  If porting removes an
EGR 'bump' in the exhaust port, there could be a slight increase in NOx at
part throttle (if that is tested for), but it may still be well within the
allowable limits; many people here and on other lists have reported having
no difficulty in passing the annual checks with missing control devices.  I
suspect the IM240 and other sniffer tests are far more lenient than the
controlled EPA test cycles that must be passed for new car certification.

The Ontario government is actively pursuing the implementation of
annual vehicle emissions testing.  They will probably borrow heavily from
existing guidelines in many of the States.  I am wondering what the
regulations are like with regard to engine swaps, specifically,
retrofitting an older engine in a newer car?  Are casting ID's
checked at inspection time?  Currently, the collector car people are
in a frenzy, and are lobbying for special consideration for their cars.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Aaron D Eoff <sheep542@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:38:44 -0400
Subject: subscribe

please enter my new address in the mailing list
my former address sheep542@aol.com is no longer valid

------------------------------

From: Ossipee104@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:40:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Repaired antenna

Fellas, along with being a olds cutlass owner, I am also a master installer
in the car audio bus. The problem youare refering to is rather easy to fix.
It is a little time cosuming though. You don't have to take the front end
apart however, you do loosen the bolt on the side of the fender  between the
door and the fender itself. Then proceed to loosen the wheel well fender.
Afte you do that you hve a access point to the power antena. It is a little
cramped , but it is the best way to do it. Do not be scared to pull GENTLY on
the fender to give you some room. The antena loosens from the top of the mast
at the base by turning the cap. The rest of the antena is supported by a
bracket at the base. As far as the wiring, the system is a positive actuation
system and requires a few wire connections to make it work. On your
replacement antena, you have a ground, power and trigger. The factory trigger
is or should be pink. That is what tells the antenna the radio is on. I
recommend you replace the unit rather than trying to repair it, trust me it
is not worth your time. Harada makes direct replacement antennas and they are
better units. You could even get them in the black mast style if you wish. If
you have any problems, feel free to contact me. This is one area I am a pro
at. Car alarms, radios even high end installs. I wouldn't mind helping fellow
olds owners. If you would like to know the model antenna, just write back and
I'll get it to you. I don't have my manuals in front of me, but I will get
you the info. ASAP.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:34:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Cotter pin reuse

At 07:01 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>DO NOT reuse the cotter pin.
>
>Why not?  I sometimes do...
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@gate.net>
>

Rules of the road.  Based on my two years at Chevrolet Assembly Division.

1. Never reuse a cotter pin, ever.

2. Never reuse a lock washer ever.

3. Never turn the nut with a lock washer, always turn the bolt.  If the lock
washer is under the nut, reverse      if washer is under the bolt head.

4. Always leave the range selector leaver in 4 wheel drives in Netural, so
that the unwary, report them as      broken down.

Why? The boss said so, and he handed out the pay checks, that's why.

The Wiz

P.S. Actually I know the exact reason for the numbers 2, 3, and 4, and I can
speculate on No. 1.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:44:49 -0400
Subject: Re: (no subject)

At 09:21 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-02-23 22:44:21 EST, you write:
>
>> Does that car still have an "I" beam?  I can't imagine that.  It must have
>IFS.
>>
>>
>>  Huh says the Wiz
>>
>
>Independant Front Suspension.  I had to grasp for that one, it required a lot
>of thought for a Sunday nite when it's time for bed.  Anyway, if I remember
>right instead of having ball joints I think these older models have what are
>called kingpins.  Does that sound right?  I think I remember my '52 having
>these (or having whatever they were called).  Don't know when they stopped
>using them.  My '52 also had the knee action from shocks instead of
>tube-type.
>
>Paul
>
>
Generally speaking RWD GM cars can have three kinds of front suspension,
prior to the adoption of McPherson struts.

1. An "I" beam axle

2. Knee action a kind of shock/strut suspension

3. I.F.S. which is what you would see under your 1970 4-4-2.

I suppose a '52 Olds could still have knee action, I just though that that
was a little late for it.  '50-'60 is the decade I know the least about.
They were not old enough to be interesting, and they were not new enough to
be interesting.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:17:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

At 08:42 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I would get some cylinder heads from a 67 330 and have them drilled to
>accept the larger head bolts -- the heads would receive a Mondello brackett
>porting job and be fitted with the 1.995 intake valves and 1.62 ex.

Hmmm, would the small bores on the 307 shroud the valves when you get to
that size?

>  The camshaft would be a Mondello JM-22-25 cam which works out to 274 deg
>intake duration and 280 deg exhaust duration, intake lift of  .523" and
>exhaust lift of .541" and lobe ceters of 110 degrees.
>  A full roller adjustable valve train will be installed.
[snip]
>  I think that would be one hot little 307 and i would keep the shift points
>between 6500 rpm and 7000

You'd have to rev the snot out of a 307 to make it really move; the only
weakness, as with all post-'77 Olds gas V-8's, is of course the windowed
main webs, which would limit the total amount of time you could rev at the
desired 7000rpm (to about, oh, a minute and a half) before the engine became
self-disassembling.

Starting with an earlier 350 block would be cheaper and more reliable; if
you really are concerned with passing smog, grind off the original casting
numbers and use some JB Weld to "install" the casting numbers of your
choice...

Or is you are dead set on a 307, at least sleeve-down a solid-main
small-block to the 307's bore size; then shoot for 7000 rpm...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:34:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

  There is a distinct possibility of valve shrouding by such a small cylinder
bore -- what do you think about installing some stellite seats and putting in
some Chevy valves namely 1.94" in and 1.5" ex. or you could just stick with
1.88" intakes and the stock 1.5" exhausts -- Probably wouldn't effect the hp
in a real world situation

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

At 12:34 AM 2/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>  There is a distinct possibility of valve shrouding by such a small cylinder
>bore -- what do you think about installing some stellite seats and putting in
>some Chevy valves namely 1.94" in and 1.5" ex. or you could just stick with
>1.88" intakes and the stock 1.5" exhausts -- Probably wouldn't effect the hp
>in a real world situation

For a street 307, the 1.88"/1.5" combination would be plenty. I think the
upper rev-limit of any stock-block 307 would be 6000 rpm, both due to the
limits of its structural integrity as well as the necessity of small valve
sizes.

I can't reiterate enough how much better, cheaper, more powerful, a swap of
a 350 block would be, compared to severely modifying a 307.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:50:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Remaking Olds engines:again

>  If there is anybody out there who knows of  any foundries or has any info
>on founding or on the casting process -- Please let me know.  Ive been
>surfing the net and sending email but so far no response to any of my
>inquiries.
>  And for that matter ---- any pattern makers out there???

There's a small foundry here in Salem Virginia.  They deal with the railroad
a lot making air compressors and dryers but they handle a lot of other stuff
too.  They use the sand molds for the casting process.  I know these little
details because we took a field trip to tour the plant in my mechanical
drawing class back in high school.  I'll look up their number just as soon
as I remember their d*mn name. Gawd, I think I'm gonna have to swing by
their place and read the sign. I'm going nuts trying to think of it.  I'll
have to get back to you.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:49:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 1971 350 engine paint

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-02-24 18:41:51 EST, you write:
>
> << I Don't want to spend nine-bucks a can for Fusick paint... anybody got a
>  brand name and a color code for me for gold 350 engine paint?
>                                 David Nye
>                                 '71 Cutlass Droptop
>   >>
> Go to Murry's or simalar auto parts store and buy Ford Gold engine paint.
It > is very > close to the orig color.  Its made by Dupli-color > > W
MACHINES

DAVID,
Try your NAPA store. Usually the have cans named in the Olds color you
want. Worth a try. I picked up my Olds Gray the other day.
Reg

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:05:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Rear main seal 455

Also remember to offset the split ends , slightly off the Main end caps,
and seal the two ends with some gasket sealer(Peramtex 700) Also put a
light covering of assembly lube or grease on the part that seals the
crackshaft so it doesn't burn up the seal on start up.


 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, C.R.F.
wrote:

> At 04:58 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >> I've got a 2 piece rear main seal.. Was wondering if anyone has any tips
> >> on installation.  The motor is out of the car.  The seal has 2 rubber
> >> pieces and 2 cloth pieces.  I assume the rubber pieces go half in the
> >> cap and half in the engine block on either side of the crank and the
> >> cloth pieces are trimmed to fit between the two rubber pieces.  My 1969
> >> Motors Manual doesnt say squat about the seal and there were no
> >> directions with it.  Can anyone help?
> >>
> >> rottin@coil.com
> >
> >I installed a two-piece "neopreme" (not sure of spelling) seal on my
> >445.  Make sure the seal angle "\" is facing toward the motor. If not it
> >will leak.  Also I wouldn't do any trimming on it, it will seal tight
> >when the main cap is torqued.
> >
> >
> I think is neoprene.  When a seal is backwards it often need not be there at
> all.  I won't have a chance to look at the new one I bought until the
> weekend, when I start to re-install my LT1.  And will tell you what I got
> after looking.  I bought it from a F*rd parts counter from application, and
> didn't bother to look as I have the 455 on hold.  I need to get the LT1 back
> in, and I have no place for the 455 not that I disposed of the Caprice I
> intended to get it.
>
> The Wiz
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:13:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

I completely agree with you on that -- I did the build up on the 307 as a
response to a request for ideas on what could be done with a 307.
  I must have been a little misguided on the high rpm thing with the weak
windowed cylinder blocks.  As far as i have understood its the extremely high
cylinder pressures in a high compression engine such as a diesel engine and
in a high compression drag engines that tends to blow out the mains in these
engines / not necessarily high rpm.
  I have also understood that it was the 76 and later crankshafts that were
the liability in high rpm situations -- ie the counter weight don't have
enough mass to counter the reciprocating inertia of the pistons and rods
hence the engine becomes unstable at higher rpms then BOOM.
  The same problems exist in the Fiero 4 cylinder engines.
  Anyway that is why i only gave the 307 9.5:1 compression and a forged crank
from a 330.
  But hey i could be completely wrong about all of this.

  More ideas and discussion would be appreciated from the whole group on
this.
at least that is on my part

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:07:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Finnally I found My Peers......(non-smog)

>Hey how about a non-smog legal 307?  Nobody ever attempts to explain
>what you could do with just a 307 without a computer or catalytic
>converter on it.  Come on lets hear it guys!!  Not everyone worrys
>about staying smog-legal.

Same as any other engine, then.  (Just smaller)  Cam, intake, headers, bore
:), carb(s), nitrous, ignition, heads, you name it...  Remember the Jack
McCormack '83 H/O that runs low 10's with a 307... ( That's 1/4 times, honest.
)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: "Scott Shannon" <scottnlisa@thurston.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:13:26 -0400
Subject: mismatched engine building advice needed

I have a '70 Cutlass S, and the engine has a dead cylinder for the second
time.  A little background will be necessary, please bear with me....

I've had the car since '82, (when I was young and foolish, and poor) and
when the 350 gave it up I decided to build a different motor I had aquired.
 This was a 425 of unknown origin, but turns out the block was no good.  I
had also gotten a 400 block with reground crank but with only 4
pistons/rods installed.  Due to the high cost of the other 4 pistons I
decided (and was told at the machine shop this would work) to bore the 400
to 425/455 std bore and use the pistons/rods from the 425.  I used the 400
crank and 425 rods.  At the time the 350 heads (6 casting) were fresh and
was told they would work, and as near as I can tell they do. (I have since
been told these will not work, no way, and I wonder if high compression has
caused the rings to break)

I think I have broken ring/s on #8 now.  I have pulled the motor once many
years past for broken rings on #1.  I also aquired a set of big block heads
and had them rebuilt years ago, but never installed them.  I think I have
about 5000 miles on this motor, but don't really know.

So the parts I have now-	E block bored to 425 std pistons
				400 crank, 425 pistons/rods
				K heads rebuilt on the shelf		
				unknown cam/new(ish) 
lifters			

Obviously I didn't end up saving any money with all this foolishness, and
now I sorta wish I had rebuilt the 350.   Now...(finally) my questions.....

Will this contraption work?  The block appeared to have enough 'girth' to
withstand this over-bore.  If I tear into it I will probably install new
pistons this time.  Or should I cut my losses and find a new shortblock BB
or 350?  I could perhaps sell the crank and lifters to offset cost.  I am
sorry to see in the FAQ the E block was probably worth some good $$$ before
I reamed it.

I look forward to your advice, and appreciate you reading this 'novel'-

BTW- I still have 4 new? pistons and rods for the E motor (domed pistons,
will have to check bore, .040 I think)  if anyone has read this far and is
interested in them....Thanks-

Scott Shannon
'70 Cutlass S, awaiting a new life

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:15:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Emissions regulations (Re: Finnally I found My Peers...)

>Charley Buehner wrote:
>> to the laws.  Does the '86 have the smog pump going to the exhaust
manifolds >> (The AIR system)  It seems to me GM gave up on it somewhere along
the >> line...  You can get headers for it, and tap fittings for the air lines
and > >Oh my!  Charley has succumbed to the Ch*vy Propaganda Squad (CPS)!!  :)

Uh, oh...  Mine were gone when I got the car, and I never cared to see how
they were supposed to look.  Sooo, I stand accused...

>Olds has AIR tubing leading to ports in the heads, Cadillac has the ports
>and passages internal to the heads (there is a single tube entering at the
>front) - what did Pontiac and Buick do?

>The emissions tests aren't concerned with WOT operation, so the
>potentially increased NOx levels here wouldn't matter.  If porting removes an
>EGR 'bump' in the exhaust port, there could be a slight increase in NOx at
>part throttle (if that is tested for), but it may still be well within the
>allowable limits; many people here and on other lists have reported having
>no difficulty in passing the annual checks with missing control devices.  I
>suspect the IM240 and other sniffer tests are far more lenient than the
>controlled EPA test cycles that must be passed for new car certification.
>

Actually, the proposed IM-240 did inspect under near WOT conditions, and I
think at least some states would have mandated NOx measurements with them,
as well.  I have copies of the proposed test procedures ~somewhere~ but I
can't find them right now.  It seems to me they involved idling for half a
minute or so, then up to 30 mph, then from 30 to 55 or 60 in x number of
seconds, equivalent to nailing it on an off-ramp, then 60 for a couple
minutes, then back to zero or something like that, with some other assorted
driving tricks in there, too.  It's one of those things where the car sits
on the chassis dyno, and the garage monkey reads the speedo, and watches the
display screen, and has to keep the vehicle speed set to the prescribed
speed, with close accuracy on speed and time, or the test is inaccurate.
Sounded to me like a big pain in the butt, but I guess it takes a fairly
complete emissions sample, anyway.  If anyone ever takes one of these
inspection tests, make sure the vehicle is warmed up before you pull it into
the shop.  If it's still cold, and the choke is set, you'll be looking at
taking the test over after you have "the problem corrected."

Wish I knew what I did with that OBD-II manual of mine...

Anyway, enough of that depressing crap.  I don't know what kind of
exemptions they'd allow for older vehicles as per those tests.  I haven't
heard if anyone is actually using the IM240 yet anyway.  (It's been a year
since I've dealt with any of it...)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us (Mark W. Eichin)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:36:00 -0400
Subject: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

Are there any lists out there specifically for 1950-1959 oldsmobile
models?  The volume and enthusiasm of the "youngsters" is getting to
be more than I have time to keep up with :-)  If there's interest I'd
consider hosting one, but if there's one already out there, I figure
this would be the place to find out...
			_Mark_ <eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us>
			The Herd of Kittens
			1956 Oldsmobile "88" Holiday Cruiser --
			  http://www.mit.edu/people/eichin/car.html

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 06:02:08 -0400
Subject: Re: M-21 problems

I hae a question..how do you use the "air gap" method with a Lakewood
bellhousing?

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:50:18 -0400
Subject: 442 & Toro ads (was 64 4-4-2 info please)

Jeffrey King wrote:
>
> Ok kids, here's the deal...
>
> I found a '64 Olds 442 over the weekend.

Well, over the weekend I found a magazine ad for the car you found.
I know, not ~quite~ as good as finding the car....
Anyway I found a few old magazines at a local antique (junk) shop -
mostly Car Life and Motor Trend.  I only bought two as they wanted $2
each.  I got a '64 442 ad (the one that reads "Oldsmobile built it.
Police proved it. Put this one on your most wanted list.") and a '69 W31
ad with the good Doc.  There were others with 442 ads, like the "442 was
here" and a full page ad that had a red background and only a small 442
emblem, but they didn't do anything for me.  There was one that had some
'66 TORO ads.  It had one page showing the nifty features of the new
Toronado, and a few pages later, another full page devoted to the
tilt-telescoping steering wheel (with a great angle shot of the car on
the top).  If anyone is really hard up for these ads, I can get them and
send 'em.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:44:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

At 11:49 PM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Do u have any idea what worth an Olds delta 88 1973 2 doors ?
>In a very good condition ?

I don't have my price guide in front of me, but I would expect the value
would be a bit higher than for your '76.  It probably won't be a whole lot
different, though.  They share a basic body style and are of similar
vintage.  If the '73 is a convertible, that will bump up the price by
several thousand dollars.  The '76 Delta 88 was not available as a
convertible.





**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:00:21 -0400
Subject: RE: 64 4-4-2 info please

Jeff, sounds like you have found a real 64 442. The 442 option B09 could be
ordered on the F-85 and Cutless. The 442 didn't become its own model untell
65. The chances of seeing one is slim, but to find one for sell "Wow". The
price is a steal, if it is in as good a shape as you say. It should have a
metallic gold 330 CID engine. There should be a number 1 cast on the FL and RR
heads. They only came in a 4 speed, 4-barrel, dual-exhaust  option.
Dual-sonorkel air cleaner with three 442 bands, one red 4, one orange 4, one
yellow 2. The 442 emblems are located in both front fenders and on the right
rear of the trunk. There were 2,999 sold.

I think you should buy this car NOW.

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the....Past)


______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Mon, Feb 24, 1997 7:51 PM Subject: 64
4-4-2 info please To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

Ok kids, here's the deal...

I found a '64 Olds 442 over the weekend.  It has (1)20,000 miles on
it according to the odometer.  It's in pretty good shape.  Probably
#4 condition.  2 door hardtop, buckets, console, factory tach,
factory 4 speed, dual snorkle(?) aircleaner, etc.  However, it seems
to be based on an F-85 as opposed to the Cutlass.  It has F-85 badges
on the front and the steering wheel, along with 442 emblems on the
front fenders.

The car looks to be very original.  Everything is worn evenly.  That
is to say, no shiny emblems on dull fenders and such.  Seats are a
little threadbare, but not torn up.  No aftermarket add-ons or
amature "customizing" that I can see.  Body is straight, but right-
front fender appears to have been repaired at some time.  No rust
that I can see (I didn't crawl under it or anything).

My question is... does it sound like an real 442 to you experts out
there?  For some reason, the flyer that went with the car has it
listed as a " '64 F-85 4-speed " and not a 442.  I copied the S/N,
but forgot to bring it into work with me.  Seemed to me it had
3 numbers, then the letter "H", then a 6 digit number.

They were asking $3750 for the car.  Opinions anyone???

Jeff King ('61 Olds Super 88)

- --
=====================================================================
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Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
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------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:49:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Cotter pin reuse

>From wizkid:

> Rules of the road.  Based on my two years at Chevrolet Assembly Division.
>
> 1. Never reuse a cotter pin, ever.
>
> 2. Never reuse a lock washer ever.
>
> 3. Never turn the nut with a lock washer, always turn the bolt.  If the lock
> washer is under the nut, reverse      if washer is under the bolt head.
>
> 4. Always leave the range selector leaver in 4 wheel drives in Netural, so
> that the unwary, report them as      broken down.
>
> Why? The boss said so, and he handed out the pay checks, that's why.
>
> The Wiz
>
> P.S. Actually I know the exact reason for the numbers 2, 3, and 4, and I can
> speculate on No. 1.

Oh, *do* fill us in on the reasons, Wiz.  I know knowledge is power 'n' all :)
but please share the wealth with us on the reasons for the Rules, whether they
be exact or speculative.

I know I've been guilty of all four acts, and I no longer wish to be ignorant
- -- following Escape442's definition of 'ignorant' as 'uninformed' :)

Seriously, I think we'd all benefit from knowing the 'Whys' for not reusing
cotters and lock washers...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:04:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

>>However, could someone pass along the name of a shop which is likely
>>to have a branch in Chicago that might carry "watter wetter" ? Perhaps
>>Pep Boys (Parts USA), or Murray's, or even (ugh) Forest City Auto Parts?

>As it happens I was just about to call Forest City anyway...

>They put me on Musical Hold for a minute, then came back to announce that
>they didn't carry it, but they were confident that Super Shops did. They
>suggested Elk Grove Village or Mount Prospect locations. Good luck...

Yup,  Saw it on the counter at Super Shops once.  I remember asking if they
carried the Redline Oil also.  The answer was a no (or a special order).
This was about a year ago...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:46:18 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 64 4-4-2 info please

...The 442 didn't become its own model untell 65...

          Actually, the 442 was a separate model (as in, a unique VIN)
          only for the model years 1968-1971.  In all other years
          (64-67 and 72-up) it was an option package available on
          certain F-85 and Cutlass models.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:57:58 -0400
Subject: Subject: Cotter pin reuse

There are several reasons not to resuse the cotter pin

1.  It's a 10 cent part.
2.  You bent that 10 cent part when you installed and removed it, thus
weakening it.
3.  10 cent parts fail at the worst possible times.
4.  That 10 cent part is holding your front rotor/wheel assembly on.
5.  Would you feel safer with a new cotter pin or not.

Reuse them if you wish.  But for my money and safety I will install a new
one.

Cecil
1991 W-41



>From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:01:14 -0400
>Subject: Cotter pin reuse
>
>DO NOT reuse the cotter pin.
>
>Why not?  I sometimes do...
>- --
>Dave Paulison

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: Re: window motor

>Both of the front windows on my 1965 98 had the rivets fall out!!!
>
>Can you just buy some bolts and locktite the nut on???

Don't know if I'd use locktite; a simple nut-bolt-lockwasher should
work fine.

>Can you buy just the bolts from a dealer/parts store??

Yup.

>Are they any different from just going to the hardware store?

Nope, plain old nuts and bolts. I forget the size that came with the
new motor but they were just short little ones. Nothing special. The
key is to use a proper lock washer with them so they won't back off
after you tighten them.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:06:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Hey, anything Olds is better than nothin'

>De gustibus non disputandem est.

"If you're long-winded enough, no one will argue with you."

(Except Mike Frederick, but he argues with everyone.)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:24:17 -0400
Subject: Re: 394 for sale...

Scott R Clark wrote:
>
>         Sorry to post this to the list guys, but I can't find Eskos e-mail
> address anywhere, and he has'nt posted in a couple days.
>
>         Anyway, for him and anybody else out there interested in a 394 V8
> core motor (thats a long-block with intake, valve covers, ex. manifolds,
> etc) the guy at the yard quoted me ~$250 (He must be the cheap guy...they
> guy I asked before told me $350.  I'll just have to make sure I go there
> when the cheap guy is working).  He said something like "394 Olds?  thats
> an old bird...that'll run ya about $250..."  Kind of a weird guy.  Anyway,
> if you or anybody else is still interested, just let me know, I'm always
> glad to help.
>
>                                 Scott
>                         1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98


Assuming the block has no cracks and is a good core, how would I get it
to Dallas?  Is it comming out of a '64?

John Schumacher
NTOC#254
OCA#021151
64 D88
69 442
74 Supreme

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #535
********************************
