oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca 
02/07/97 06:06 PM
To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #506


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 7 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 506

Re: A Few Q's & Environment
Re: Flames
Re: Spark plugs
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Axle mania
Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Newsgroup???
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Auto Tranny Question
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead
Auto Tranny & Super
Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead
My Olds is in Bryceman's registry
Re: Auto Tranny question
RE: 69 H/O Mirrors
Re: to everyone
Re: Auto Tranny Question
Re: Rear Spring Installation??
Re: Mustangs vs. W-41
Re: Auto Tranny & Super
Re: Mike Fisher
Re: Auto Tranny & Super
What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: Newsgroup???
Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: Auto Tranny question
Re: Kathy Mattea swaps a Rocket 455 into a  Ford Thunderturd
Pwr. Wndw. HELP!
Re: Auto Tranny & Super
"S" means "Superdrive"
Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)
Re: Kathy Mattea swaps a Rocket 455 into a Ford Thunderturd
Axle mania
What does, I mean did, 442, W-30, etc stand for?
Help!
NON OLDS: AOL & MSN Woes
65-66 88/98 Diagrams

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:45:44 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's & Environment

At 07:11 AM 2/7/97 -0400, mike fisher wrote:

>Craig, I use "Simple Green" to do most of my automotive and used parts
>cleaning.  this stuff works great and is environmental friendly.

I don't have anything against "Simple Green" or with the use of it, but you
must remember that just because a product claims to be environmentally
friendly, it doesn't mean that it is completely non-toxic and good for you.
For example, if you fed your pet dolphin or orca whale a diet of "Simple
Green", do you think they would survive for long.  The reason I bring this
up is that I once saw an 'environmentally friendly' soap commercial and they
had this ocean scene with dolphins jumping all around this product.  This is
so deceiving as it gives the impression that the product and all the sea
creatures are at one with each other when in fact a couple of spoonfuls
would make them quite ill.  Same thing goes for all those 'clear' products.
I mean isn't crude oil evironmentally friendly too - after all it comes from
the earth ;')
Simple Green is a good product as I have used it myself and find it to work
quite well on vinyl roofs but being that I work in the chemical industry I
always disregard any products claims about environmental friendliness (you
start to realize that not much is truly friendly).  It's a big selling plus
with the general public.

My 2 cents (which is about 1.4 US cents)

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:44:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Flames

At 11:49 AM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>> I have a brother at Harvard.  We have to send him care packages of brain
>> food as he seems to be losing cranial mass rapidly since moving there
>> last fall.  No one understands what is happening.
>
>Harvard has that effect on folks, particularly the Business school.
>Cranial Drain 101 is a pre-requisite to selling one's soul...
>
>BTW, what kind of brain food?  Grits, or hush puppies?  It's true there's
>no breakfast place around here that has grits, so I look forward to ordering
>them out when I'm south of the Mason-Dixon.  Of course, my Yankee upbringing
>always gives me away; since I was a kid I always put butter & sugar on 'em,
>never liked mixing in salt, pepper and my eggs like some of my Suthun
>relations...
>
>"Fish is good brain food!" -- Larry
>
>"You should eat a whale!" -- Moe
>
>
>
>Tim Churchill
>-------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'
>

I though pre-law 103 was a prerequisite to Cranial Drain 101?

Anyway, it would be fried Okra, right bill.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:43:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Spark plugs

At 11:55 AM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know of a spark plug cross referencing chart somewhere on the
Web? > > > No, but if someone does, please post it, instead of a direct
E-Mail.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:41:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

At 11:30 AM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I know we discussed "n"-speed trannys before, however, I got confused
>>last night looking over a book on GM muscle cars.  When I flipped to
>>the page on 68 442's it indicated that a 2 speed column shifter was
>>an available option.  Now please correct me if I am wrong but doesn't
>>2 speed mean Drive and Low.  I looked at my gear indicator on the dash
>>and it have Park-R-N-D-S-L.  Is this not a 3-speed???
>
>Um, I _think_ so. Our old 2-speed Pontiac form 1969 had P-R-N-D-L on the
>column shifter.
>
>Useless trivia: Doesn't the "S" in Park-R-N-D-S-L actually stand for
>"Super" in some cases, and not simply "Second"? Maybe the Wiz can answer
>that one 'cause I think I'm going back a ways here...
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>
>

First questions first: Yes a P-R-N-D-S-L would be a three speed automatic.
In the late 60s, GM, era it could have been either a TH350 or a TH400
depending on other options.  I suspect that the book you are quoting,
indicated that that car WAS available with a 2 speed (Powerglide variant) as
an additional option as well, and that, when equipped with the 2-speed, it
was column shifted.  As I recall, Dynaflos were P-N-D-L-R just to toss in
another Olds transmission variant.

At first Powerglides were P-N-D-L-R, I never had one in a car newer than a
'54 so I don't know if they were revised to P-R-N-D-L, but I suspect that
they were.  And I also believe that early 3 speeds were P-N-D-S-L-R,
although I never had one in those days, prefering 4-speeds.  Powerglides
thru 1962 were cast iron, and from '63 on aluminum.  Also, the cast iron PGs
had drain plugs in the pan and torque converter, so that they could be
drained; nothing like installing servicability!

I always thought 'S' WAS second.  I'm afraid I don't know for sure.  But
with the chauvanistic attitudes of each of the manufacturers, it is likely
some of them called it 'super' just to be different.

I'm afraid not much help, and not much of a discertation.

The Wiz

P.S. Should I do my GED discertation on the relative shift patterns, in the
transmissions of the American Automobile manufacturers?

P.P.S. What fun it would have been if the S.A.E. had never come along, and
each of the manufacturers had been able to institute it's own set of thread
standards.  Wouldn't that be fun today.  I need a 25/77th, 22.5 tpi
Hupmobile lug nut, left hand thread.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:50:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Axle mania

At 12:27 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Well I was able to wriggle myself under my car looking for the elusive
>axle code.  No code to be found anywhere.  In front of the axle, in
>back, on the bottom (not top).  Where in God's green earth is it.  I
>am frustrated since I am dying to know.  (I know too much caffiene sp?)
>You would think that GM/Olds whatever would have stamped this number
>of the differential assembly.  Egads!  Any advise out there.
>
>Chris Sparks
>68 442
>
>

I think that it also on a small tag that was over one of the lug nuts when
the car was assembeled.  It is usually lost the first time the brake drum is
removed for service however.

And in case it was lost, you car is a 3-speed.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:47:58 -0400
Subject: Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead

At 12:08 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 09:49 AM 2/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>I guess I forgot to mention that I used a pair of hook/bolt compressors
>>that the parts store called "strut compressors".  The only thing is once I
>>got the spring compressed I couldn't fit the spring compressor into the
>>indention in the upper control arm.  I guess I should invent a spring
>>compressor that will fit up or down through one of the shock absorber
>>holes...hmmm...maybe it's an idea....
>
>Yeah, they did; it's got two pairs of claws, one hooks over some coils near
>the top and the other pair hooks over the coils near the bottom of the
>spring. They both have threaded holes in them, so you use a large (3/4" or
>so) threaded rod to draw them together.
>
>It is specifically designed to do this job. BTW, it is designed to *just*
>fit in there; every time I do it, I always get the impression that the
>spring compressor will _NEVER_ fit through the shock-absorber hole in the
>lower control arm (it inevitably does, but not without a lot of wrangling),
>and when you tighten the threaded portion (the hex must face down), the
>threaded rod will gradually extend up through the upper shock-mount hole,
>but just _barely_ (it's pretty tight). It helps to have a jack to raise and
>lower the A-arm to position the tool inside the spring (i.e. to lower or
>raise the bottom of the spring, and thus change the relation of the tool to
>the upper and lower shock mount).
>
>I went ahead and bought one of these tools (not cheap; ~$55 or so) since I'm
>going to be using it so much, but there is *only* one way that it will fit
>in there and work, and every time I use it I have to reinvent the *exact*
>position for installing and using it. Tedious, real tedious.
>
>BTW, the "other" type of spring compressors (that hook on the outside of the
>spring) will not work AT ALL. First off, I challenge anybody to install
>these on the outside of the front spring on a RWD A-body (the coils are not
>that accessible). As noted above, they won't work on the inside either. I
>ruined a pair of my neighbor's trying this when I didn't know any better.
>(yeah, don't believe the advertisement that they "work on all coil springs";
>sure, you can compress any coil spring with them, but don't expect to be
>able to install that compressed spring on anything but a Macpherson Strut!).
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>
>
A MacPherson what?

A MacPherson strut sounds more like a dance that goes on when bag-pipes are
playing.

Are those the things I removed from my '30 Olds Viking and threw away!  Do
you mean they really must go back on?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:54:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

At 12:54 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Andrew C. Green wrote:
>>
>> Useless trivia: Doesn't the "S" in Park-R-N-D-S-L actually stand for
>> "Super" in some cases, and not simply "Second"? Maybe the Wiz can answer
>> that one 'cause I think I'm going back a ways here..
>
>My '71 owners manual calls it "Super".  I don't have the manual with me,
>but I recall it states something like this:
>"S stands for super, use when super performance is required".
>The only reason I recall any of this is because it made me laugh when I
>read it the first time.
>BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
>left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
>right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".
>
>Kurt
>71 442
>
>
L-S-D AND 1-2-3.

Sounds like your counting old British money.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:56:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Newsgroup???

At 01:21 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Has anyone thought about making this a newsgroup?  I know Oldsmobiles are THE
>most important things in the world, but my messages of lesser importance seem
>to get drowned in a sea of subjects such as: "Mice in my intake."
>
>Just thought I'd ask.
>
>Paul Pate
>70 Cutlass S
>
>
What a nice variety, what did 'your' mice leave behind.  Over the alst few
days it was mice in exhausts, with a lot of un-popped corn left behind.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:05:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

> At first Powerglides were P-N-D-L-R, I never had one in a car newer than a
> '54 so I don't know if they were revised to P-R-N-D-L, but I suspect that
> they were.

I once had a '69 Malibu ("Barbie") convertible with a Powerglide -- 6 cylinder
250, no less! And no more :) -- and it was a "PRNDL".

BTW, last time I talked to the guy I sold it to -- and it had 220K on it
when I sold it -- he was still driving it.  Finally got around to rebuilding
that slipping Powerglide, too... well, after all, it's the same 250 inline 6
Olds used back then, ain't it?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:09:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny Question

Chris Sparks wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I know we discussed "n"-speed trannys before, however, I got
> confused last night looking over a book on GM muscle cars.  When I
> flipped to the page on 68 442's it indicated that a 2 speed column
> shifter was an available option.  Now please correct me if I am
> wrong but doesn't 2 speed mean Drive and Low.  I looked at my gear
> indicator on the dash and it have Park-R-N-D-S-L.  Is this not a
> 3-speed???  Please clear my cloudy mind!!

*****

Chris,

As I recall from 1968, when I was shopping for my 442, the 3 speed
Hydramatic automatic transmission was used in the 442, but that the
Jetaway 2 speed automatic was offered in the F-85 and Cutlass.
Perhaps the Jetaway was also available in the 442, when the low
compression turnpike cruiser package was ordered.  I'm not sure why
anyone would have wanted one that way though.

By the way, the gear indicator in a Jetaway equipped car read
Park-R-N-D-L, and sure looks funny when you're used to having that
Second (or Super) gear in between Low and Drive.

          ---
 ------- | | | - Tom Stoner -----------------------
|        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ---    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
 --------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:23:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

  "C.R.F." (wizkid@inlink.com) writes:

> I always thought 'S' WAS second.  I'm afraid I don't know for sure.

'S' did stand for Super, and this terminology was used at least since
1952. My 1952 Oldsmobile sales brochure has a discussion of Drive and
Super, like it was a new feature for 1952. Back then it was the four
speed Hydramatic, which went up to 1963-64 or so. This was replaced
by the Turbo-Hydramatic, a three speed with torque converter.

Note that "Super" and "Second" may have different connotations... I seem
to remember "Super" may have limited the transmission to first and second,
with a different shift point between them than if left in "Drive".
There were other automatics (Ford?) where the selections were "D-2-1",
and 2 did mean second much more literally. Another set of selections were
"D-L2-L1", which might have meant the same as "D-S-L". The current
Chrysler Auto-Stick is another transmission where the gears are much
more directly controlled while in that mode... 1-2-3-4 I believe can be
selected more or less directly, as long as speed and rpm are not completely
out of range.

The four speed Hydramatic was considerably different from more modern
automatics... it had NO torque converter! I had two fluid couplings
(from mid-1950s on), one of which was used for shifting purposed.
It filled and drained to effect one of the shifts, along with
regular plate clutches for other shifts. The shift involving the fluid
coupling was very soft and slow.

There were a lot of very interesting automatics in the 1950s, the
Triple Turbine Dynaflow probably being the most unusual. It did no
"shifting" whatsoever for normal driving, at least not in the normal
sense. It had a multiple element torque converter (triple turbine),
where each turbine was connected through a separate concentric shaft
to a different gearset. During driving, as speeds and loads changed,
the fluid flow through the torque converter would hit the different
turbines in different proportions. So you never really shifted...
you might have 60% of the torque delivered through third and 40% through
second, with the proportion through third increasing as speed increased.
Obviously this was a very smooth transmission, but the car was slow
and the fuel economy was poor compared to more normal automatics.

- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:14:56 -0400
Subject: Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead

>>>I guess I forgot to mention that I used a pair of hook/bolt compressors
>>>that the parts store called "strut compressors".

Jeez, I missed this line the first time I saw it. Basically you had the
wrong tool there: it's meant for external attachment on a MacPherson
strut spring, not internal attachment on a coil spring.

>>>The only thing is once I
>>>got the spring compressed I couldn't fit the spring compressor into the
>>>indention in the upper control arm.

Well, no wonder.  :-)

>>BTW, the "other" type of spring compressors (that hook on the outside of the
>>spring) will not work AT ALL.

Yup, that seems to be the case here.

>A MacPherson strut sounds more like a dance that goes on when bag-pipes are
>playing.
>
>Are those the things I removed from my '30 Olds Viking and threw away!  Do
>you mean they really must go back on?

I think they _are_ a lot older than just late-'60's-early-'70's, but
I was counting on _you_ to be Class Historian on that subject...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:42:55 -0400
Subject: Auto Tranny & Super

At 12:54 PM 2/7/97 -0400, Kurt wrote:

>My '71 owners manual calls it "Super".  I don't have the manual with me,
>but I recall it states something like this:
>"S stands for super, use when super performance is required".
>The only reason I recall any of this is because it made me laugh when I
>read it the first time.

Yes, 'S' stands for "Super" or according to the Systematic Trouble Shooting
Hydramatic (400 & 425) Manual that I have... "Intermediate".  I'm sure this
is similar for the THM-350 also.
Actually, there is a difference in the shifting and strength (for lack of a
better word) in 2nd gear if you have the shifter in Drive or in Second.  In
Drive, the 2nd gear has the Forward Clutch - ON, Direct Clutch - OFF, Front
Band - OFF, Intermediate Clutch - ON, Intermediate Sprag - Effective, Lo
Roller Clutch - Ineffective, Rear Band - OFF.  In 'S' (Super) the 2nd gear
has the Forward Clutch - ON, Direct Clutch - OFF, FRONT BAND - ON,
Intermediate Clutch - ON, Intermediate Sprag - Effective, Lo Roller Clutch -
Ineffective, Rear Band - OFF.  As you can see the Front Band is ON when you
are manually in 'S' as opposed to 'D'.  Therefore the 1-2 shift will be
somewhat firmer that in Drive.  Also no 2-3 shift point can be obtained in
this 'S' range.
This same sort of thing also happens when you place the shifter in 'L' for
Lo.  The Forward Clutch - ON, Direct Clutch - OFF, Front Band - OFF,
Intermediate Clutch - OFF, Intermediate Sprag - Ineffective, Lo Roller
Clutch - Effective, Rear Band - ON.  The Rear Band is not on when you have
the shifter in 'D' and thus you don't get as hard off a shift.  Technically,
you also should not get a 1-2 shift if the shifter is in 'L' range but if
you have a high numerical axle ratio and/or high engine RPM then it is
possible for the transmission to shift to 2nd gear even with the shifter in
'L' (I don't recommend trying this).  Thus you can see that 'S' stands for
more than just the word "Super".
Also note that the Oil Pressure in the transmission in 'D' (with brakes
applied and 1000 RPM) will read between 60-90 PSI.  When in 'S' or 'L'(with
brakes and 1000 RPM) the line pressure will be 135-160 PSI.  This is
significantly higher oil pressure and will also cause a firmer shift by
pushing on the valves in the valve body that much harder.  Shift-Kits are
designed to change the speed of the valve movement (different springs,
different diameter holes in the spacer-control valve assembly etc.) and thus
firm up the shifts.

>BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
>left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
>right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".

I have the same shifter in my car and "1 2 3" would be the same as "L S D"
except that in the "L S D" side it is harder to go into 'N' and overrev the
engine while racing.

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:47:12 -0400
Subject: Re: DANGER..Coils Ahead

My local parts store will rent spring compressors. If you buy the springs
there, they let you use it for free!!

I would go back to the parts store and ask to use this "forgotten" device
for free and see what happens...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:36:08 -0400
Subject: My Olds is in Bryceman's registry

Hey hey hey, it happened.  I finaly had a picture scanned and sent it to
Bryceman to add to the registry.  The old gal don't look too bad if I do
say so.  Check it out!

Dave(proud papa)Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:38:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

Paul Elosge sez:

> The four speed Hydramatic was considerably different from more modern
> automatics... it had NO torque converter! I had two fluid couplings
> (from mid-1950s on), one of which was used for shifting purposed.
> It filled and drained to effect one of the shifts, along with
> regular plate clutches for other shifts. The shift involving the fluid
> coupling was very soft and slow.

Paul, did the other divisions use the same tranny?  You've got me wondering
what I had in my '53 Buick Riv; I used to think it was a 3 speed, but I'm
not so sure seeing the above... it shifted so smoothly (read: slushy :) ),
I couldn't tell for sure.

> There were a lot of very interesting automatics in the 1950s, the
> Triple Turbine Dynaflow probably being the most unusual. It did no
> "shifting" whatsoever for normal driving, at least not in the normal
> sense. It had a multiple element torque converter (triple turbine),
> where each turbine was connected through a separate concentric shaft
> to a different gearset. During driving, as speeds and loads changed,
> the fluid flow through the torque converter would hit the different
> turbines in different proportions. So you never really shifted...
> you might have 60% of the torque delivered through third and 40% through
> second, with the proportion through third increasing as speed increased.
> Obviously this was a very smooth transmission, but the car was slow
> and the fuel economy was poor compared to more normal automatics.

Sort of a pre-cursor to the CVAT in the Subaru Justy my sis-in-law used
to have?  Only I'm sure it (it meaning GMs) worked much better...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Robert K. Whitaker" <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:21:47 -0400
Subject: RE: 69 H/O Mirrors

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC14F9.F0B5F4C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You're exactly right -- you've got to be careful!.  The base of the =
mirrors on the English Ford were slightly different.  I have an article =
I kept from the Hurst OCA that's a least 2-3 years old about someone =
reproducing these mirrors.

Reproductions
#5 McMeen Drive
Columbia, TN   39401
(615) 381-8690 or (615) 292-5334

Complete mirror----------$350
Bullets (finished)---------$150
Globes (chrome only)--$150
Internal components----call
Kits----------------------------$225
Mirror Pads-----------------$10

Mike Lewis was the point of contact.  I don't know if they are still =
making mirrors.  Might be something to look into.  They were supposed to =
be exact duplicates of the 69 H/O mirror.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

- ----------
From: 	JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com[SMTP:JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, February 06, 1997 8:38 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: 69 H/O Mirrors

...I've seen these mirrors one other place besides the 69 H/O, that is =
=3D until=20
today!...
    =20
     Careful.  There are a large number of _similar_ mirrors which were=20
     made in England, however I have never found an _exact_ match with =
the=20
     69 H/O units.  I think a similar unit was used on the Shelby Cobra=20
     also.
    =20

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------------------------------

From: mmetal@chipsnet.com (Macon Metals)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:37:32 -0400
Subject: Re: to everyone

Please read and save this message.  Mike Fisher (mmetal@chipsnet.com) no
longer is at this address.  I was let go from my job this afternoon.
Please keep in touch and call me or write me.  I know some of you have
been dealing parts and such with me and would like to keep up with you
all.

Goodbye For Now!

Mike Fisher
RR 1 Box 160
Blue Mound, IL  62513
217-692-2019

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:03:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny Question

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Thomas Stoner wrote:
> As I recall from 1968, when I was shopping for my 442, the 3 speed
> Hydramatic automatic transmission was used in the 442, but that the
> Jetaway 2 speed automatic was offered in the F-85 and Cutlass.
> Perhaps the Jetaway was also available in the 442, when the low
> compression turnpike cruiser package was ordered.  I'm not sure why
> anyone would have wanted one that way though.

If you've got a big, lazy, torquey V-8 there's nothing wrong with a
2-speed (heck, a *one*-speed would probably work just fine!). Less
complex, less power consumption to make work, lighter, etc., etc.

> By the way, the gear indicator in a Jetaway equipped car read
> Park-R-N-D-L, and sure looks funny when you're used to having that
> Second (or Super) gear in between Low and Drive.

To me, a P-R-N-D-S-L looks absolutely bizarre... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(proud owner of a Jetaway equipped '68)

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:31:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Rear Spring Installation??

Thanks for the responses!!! I feel much more confident now!

I just replaced shocks and lower control arms last weekend, so taking them
off is a minor issue (but not one I want to fiddle with if I don't have
to).

The springs are OEM replacements from TRW (sounds like a reputable name?).

I purchased them because it is HARD to find affordable springs for this car
(prices ranged from $115 for these to $400. That's just the rears!!!).

I didn't want to fiddle with heavy duty springs (changes ride height) or
progressively wound springs (because I want to do this once and don't value
the knowledge gained thru experimentation in this area).

I choose to use OEM springs and install air-bags in the rear springs. That
way it can ride just like when new, and if I think that the springs should
be stiffer (I plan to drive it hard now and again, or load up for a trip),
I just get out the bicycle pump and add some "stiffness". The other reason
is because one of my co-workers did this on his '64 Chevelle (This thing is
a monster!) and it rides REAL nice. Comfortable ride, and when he wants to
drive it HARD, you just add air.

I don't know what to do about the front-end. I plan on OEM springs up
there. Once the whole suspension is re-sprung, I am going to try some mild
performance shocks like KYB's.

Later!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:28:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mustangs vs. W-41

On  7 Feb 97 at 1:29, Jason Labay wrote:

> Aren't the new Z24's and Sunfire's with the "Twin Cam" Olds engine
> pulling high 14's to low 15's in the mag's? Thought I read that

Those Twin Cams don't rev as high as the Quad4s or have the output,
FWIW.    Those numbers do sound familiar though.

The H.O. Quads and Mike: '91 442, '93 SCX

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:32:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny & Super

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
>
> At 12:54 PM 2/7/97 -0400, Kurt wrote:
>
> >BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
> >left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
> >right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".
>
> I have the same shifter in my car and "1 2 3" would be the same as "L S D"
> except that in the "L S D" side it is harder to go into 'N' and overrev the
> engine while racing.

Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic here...guess I should've put ;-) at
the end.

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:41:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Mike Fisher

A moment of silence for the passing of Mike's job.  May he go on to
bigger and better livelyhoods.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:43:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny & Super

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:

> I have the same shifter in my car and "1 2 3" would be the same as "L S D"
> except that in the "L S D" side it is harder to go into 'N' and overrev the
> engine while racing.

I just _really_read _ this and think you have it backwards

   _________
  |   |     |
  | P |     |
  |   |     |
  |   |     |
  | R |     |
  |   |     |_______
  |   |             |
  | N |             |
  |   |     ___     |
  |   |    |   |    |
  | D |    | 3 |    |
  |   |    |   |    |
  | S |    | 2 |    |
  |   |    |   |    |
  | L |    | 1 |    |
  |___|____|__ |____|


Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Jar Lyons <jarl@xactlabs.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:54:39 -0400
Subject: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

Is there a simple correlation between these models and the
configuration of the vehicle, or does it vary for each year.

My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
to mean anything from ...
   400 cu in
   4 spd
   2 (dual exhaust)
to ...
   455 cu in
   4 barrel
   2 (dual exhaust)
depending on the year.

Is this close to accurate?

I am clueless as to the W... models

Something tells me there's a lot of overlap in the model
names and the actual configuration of the car.

For example,
I would think that all convertibles would be built with
heavy duty frame rails, for obvious deflection reasons.
But to get heavy duty rails for a hardtop would be an
extra option.  Was this the case?


- --
Have you backed up your data today?
(FREE trial) Atrieva Internet Backup Service http://www.atrieva.com

Jar Lyons
jarl@xactlabs.com
XactLabs  (www.xactlabs.com)
600 University Street, Suite 911
Seattle, WA  98101
Voice: (206) 749-2914,
Fax:   (206) 382-6615
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
                1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
                       455 Rocket Powered
                'How fast do you want to go today?'
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:54:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

At 03:05 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> At first Powerglides were P-N-D-L-R, I never had one in a car newer than a
>> '54 so I don't know if they were revised to P-R-N-D-L, but I suspect that
>> they were.
>
>I once had a '69 Malibu ("Barbie") convertible with a Powerglide -- 6
cylinder >250, no less! And no more :) -- and it was a "PRNDL". > >BTW, last
time I talked to the guy I sold it to -- and it had 220K on it >when I sold it
-- he was still driving it.  Finally got around to rebuilding >that slipping
Powerglide, too... well, after all, it's the same 250 inline 6 >Olds used back
then, ain't it? > > > >Tim Churchill >------------- >'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der
KinderWagen' >'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced' > > > >

That basic engine was Ch*vy's mainstay since 1929.  The Powerglide hit in
1953.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:50:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

   Timothy A. Churchill (tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com) writes:

> Paul, did the other divisions use the same tranny?  You've got me wondering
> what I had in my '53 Buick Riv; I used to think it was a 3 speed, but I'm
> not so sure seeing the above... it shifted so smoothly (read: slushy :) ),
> I couldn't tell for sure.

I should have given a bit more info...

For the 1950's, Cadillac and Oldsmobile used the Hydramatic (4 speeds).
Buick used the Dynaflow (3 speeds). Chevrolet used the Powerglide (2-speeds).

I am not sure what Pontiac used, but it was one of the above (I think
the Hydramatic).

Chevrolet also used a Buick Dynaflow at one point for their higher
performance engine (for the 348 only (precursor of the 409)).

The Hydramatic used fluid coupling(s), while everything else used
torque converters.

There were several variants of the Hydramatic and Dynaflow over the
years. The early Hydramatic didn't have the second fluid coupling.
The early Dynaflow didn't have three turbines, and I believe did
actually shift through clutches for at least one of the shifts.

> Sort of a pre-cursor to the CVAT in the Subaru Justy my sis-in-law used
> to have?  Only I'm sure it (it meaning GMs) worked much better...

The Triple Turbine Dynaflow is nothing like the recent CVATs.
Those CVATs are based on two variable diameter pulleys with a belt
between them. The technology was originally developed by a Dutch
auto manufacturer by the name of DAF (since acquired by Volvo). The
1960s version had a rubber belt in tension between the pulleys. This
kind of worked for the car had something like 25 HP. The recent CVTs
use a steel belt in compression. This works pretty well with a higher
power engine, like 100+ HP.

The Dynaflow was a good automatic for the time, no one cared to much
about fuel economy back then. It wouldn't be good today. There also
was a performance penalty, but you could get around that with a bigger
engine. Only problem was Buicks competitors kept using bigger engines
too. There was a great horsepower race going on at the time.

The current steel belt CVT is supposed to be both good for performance
and fuel economy. The driving characteristics are supposed to be a bit
weird, at least compared to normal cars. The engine is somewhat constant
speed, where when you initially accelerate, the rpms go up and then
stay there pegged as the CVT slowly varies the ratio.

Other random automatic transmission notes... two speed automatics were
very common from the start in the early 1950s through the early 1970s.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler all had their variants. At the time of the
early Hydramatic when other companies were trying to catch up, it
was thought that a two speed automatic with torque converter was a
superior design compared to the four speed with fluid coupling design
of the Hydramatic. A torque converter does torque multiplication just
like a gearset does... a fluid coupling is strictly a pass-thru device.
Eventually every caught on that two speeds were not enough, some quicker
than others... Chrysler replaced the two speed Powerflite from 1953/54?
with the three speed Torqueflite from 1956. Others took longer. At the
bitter end, two speed automatics were seen only at the low end of the market
(early Vega, amongst others).

Now I think the number of speeds in an automatic may be getting out of
hand... five speeds on BMWs and such.

- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:04:33 -0400
Subject: Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

On  7 Feb 97 at 16:54, Jar Lyons wrote:


> My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
> to mean anything from ...
>    400 cu in>    4 spd>    2 (dual exhaust)
> to ...
>    455 cu in>    4 barrel>    2 (dual exhaust)
> depending on the year.

'90 and '91 meant:
4 cyl, 4 valves, 2 camshafts ...

> I am clueless as to the W... models

The W- stands for an option package.

For the '90, it was only in W-40 trim, a 180BHP Quad4H.O.
The '91 had two different levels of 442, the W-40 (essentially the
same), and a W-41 (much discussed here lately :-) ) which gained 10
hp (to 190), and a little different gearing (3.94:1 final gear
instead of 3.60:1, along with different 3rd and 5th gears).

The H.O. Quads and Mike: '91 442, '93 SCX

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:15:26 -0400
Subject: Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

Jar Lyons wrote:
>
> Is there a simple correlation between these models and the
> configuration of the vehicle, or does it vary for each year.
>
> My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
> to mean anything from ...
>    400 cu in
>    4 spd
>    2 (dual exhaust)
> to ...
>    455 cu in
>    4 barrel
>    2 (dual exhaust)
> depending on the year.

Actually, it first meant
     4 barrel carb
     4 speed
     2 (dual exhaust)

> I am clueless as to the W... models

"W" referred to a performance option. The most famous being W30 which
started as a "not for sale to the regular consumer" racing package.  The
W30, W31 and W32 were specific "built" engines, while W25 ('70-'72 OAI),
W26 (Hurst Dual Gate), W27 (aluminum rear axle carrier), W35 ('70-'72
rear wing), etc were performance parts.  There were more than this, but
after all I'm still at work, and working hard am I ;-)

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:34:24 -0400
Subject: Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

Mike Coccagna wrote:
>
> '90 and '91 meant:
> 4 cyl, 4 valves, 2 camshafts ...

Oldsmobiles future plan:

4saken, 4gotten, 2 bad.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:36:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Newsgroup???

At 01:21 PM 2/7/97 -0400, PaulP34167@aol.com wrote:
>Has anyone thought about making this a newsgroup?  I know Oldsmobiles are THE
>most important things in the world, but my messages of lesser importance seem
>to get drowned in a sea of subjects such as: "Mice in my intake."

Newsgroups are the exact reason why lists like this are created, to stay
away from the tons of dumb@ss posters that write stuff like "Olds Suck,
Dodge Rules", or like "my 91 442 runs 5.21 et's totally stock" The newsgroup
method would casue your posts to get lost even more.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......patriot red, A4, G92, PEG2, GSC,  currently bone stock
      planned spring mods: !Cat, !TB, 160stat, SLP cat back, GM Cold Air Kit
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30...white/gold...........3rd place '97 Cleveland Auto Rama

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:46:53 -0400
Subject: Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

At 04:54 PM 2/7/97 -0400, Jar Lyons wrote:
>Is there a simple correlation between these models and the
>configuration of the vehicle, or does it vary for each year.
>
>My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
>to mean anything from ...
>   400 cu in
>   4 spd
>   2 (dual exhaust)
>to ...
>   455 cu in
>   4 barrel
>   2 (dual exhaust)
>depending on the year.
>
>Is this close to accurate?
>
>I am clueless as to the W... models

Well Oldsmobile lied in 1980 with the 442 W-30. Mine is actually a 4-3-1.
4=4bbl, 3=3speed, 1=single exhaust split into two at the rear to simulate dual
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......patriot red, A4, G92, PEG2, GSC,  currently bone stock
      planned spring mods: !Cat, !TB, 160stat, SLP cat back, GM Cold Air Kit
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30...white/gold...........3rd place '97 Cleveland Auto Rama

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:36:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny question

>The current steel belt CVT is supposed to be both good for performance
>and fuel economy. The driving characteristics are supposed to be a bit
>weird, at least compared to normal cars. The engine is somewhat constant
>speed, where when you initially accelerate, the rpms go up and then
>stay there pegged as the CVT slowly varies the ratio.

I had a go-kart I built in high school (aaah, Metal Shop!) that had one
on it instead of a clutch. It was made by an outfit called "Max-Torque"
in Skokie, IL. It was a lot like the CVT in the Subaru: You had two big
pulleys with a V-belt connecting input to output pulley. At startup the
belt would be low on the input pulley and high on the output for high
torque but low speed. As you accelerated, centrifugal weights on the
outside of the dished, concave drive pulley would move outwards, forcing
the outer plate of the pulley towards the inner one. This would force
the drive belt, trapped between the two, to ride higher and higher on
the input pulley, increasing its linear speed towards the output pulley.
Since the belt itself doesn't stretch, this would yank the belt deeper
into the grooves of the output pulley (again there were springs to keep
pressure on the belt), thus turning it faster.

So basically you'd rev up the engine and it would go to a high speed and
stay there. The kart would start up smoothly and just keep going faster
and faster; in fact, you'd accelerate constantly until all the belt slip
from idle had been taken out of the driveline. Then just when you'd
think you were putt-putt-putting as fast as the little kart would go,
the centrifugal weights on the input would start forcing the belt to
change position, the drive ratio would start changing, and there'd be
this sudden whoooooosh of additional acceleration like a turbocharger
spooling up. What a blast to drive.  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:58:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Kathy Mattea swaps a Rocket 455 into a  Ford Thunderturd

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Yeah, I dropped a note to the webmaster there,
also; (webmaster@mattea.com)  I pointed out this nasty problem, maybe
the rest of us could do the same? (and provide other ideas...)  Maybe
while we're at it we could find an E-mail for the songwriters, and drop
them ideas for a new song?  I'm sure we could make an entire album
between all of us :)


R Mullen wrote:
>
> I checked out http://www.mattea.com/rocket.html for details on the
> much-talked about Kathy Mattea song.    This page shows what looks
like
> stills from the video.  Displayed above (sacrilege) the 455 Rocket air
> cleaner decal is a picture of a Ford Thunderbird.  Using a Ford
> Thunderbird for a video about a 455 Rocket soured me on the whole
thing.
>  Maybe Kathy never owned/drove/thrashed an Oldsmobile, but instead
> preferred engine swapping into her pet Ford?  I find it hard to
believe
> that there were absolutely no Oldsmobiles available for this video.
>From what I've heard, it ~was~ an Olds in the video, it's just the anim.
clip at the top of the page that's non-Olds.

                                   --

           Charley Buehner        | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
             500 4th Ave.         | "charley@rocketship.com"
               Box 1255           | Montana State University-Northern
          Havre, Montana 59501    | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
              "Rockit 1"          | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
              "BT UR 4D"          | '70 Buick GS 455
                     (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)


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<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Yeah, I dropped a note to the webmaster there,
also;&nbsp;(webmaster@mattea.com)&nbsp; I pointed out this nasty problem,
maybe the rest of us could do the same?&nbsp;(and provide other
ideas...)&nbsp; Maybe while we're at it we could find an E-mail for the
songwriters, and drop them ideas for a new song?&nbsp; I'm sure we could make
an entire album between all of us&nbsp;:)</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>R Mullen wrote:<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; I checked out http://www.mattea.com/rocket.html for details on the<BR>
&gt; much-talked about Kathy Mattea song.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This page shows
what looks like<BR>
&gt; stills from the video.&nbsp; Displayed above (sacrilege) the 455 Rocket
air<BR>
&gt; cleaner decal is a picture of a Ford Thunderbird.&nbsp; Using a Ford<BR>
&gt; Thunderbird for a video about a 455 Rocket soured me on the whole
thing.<BR>
&gt;&nbsp; Maybe Kathy never owned/drove/thrashed an Oldsmobile, but
instead<BR> &gt; preferred engine swapping into her pet Ford?&nbsp; I find it
hard to believe<BR> &gt; that there were absolutely no Oldsmobiles available
for this video.&nbsp;&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>From what I've heard, it ~was~ an Olds in the video, it's just the
anim. clip at the top of the page that's non-Olds.</DT>

<CENTER><DT><BR>
- --&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<TT>Charley Buehner&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
&quot;buehner@cis.nmclites.edu&quot;<BR> 500 4th
Ave.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
&quot;charley@rocketship.com&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Box
1255&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Montana
State University-Northern<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Havre, Montana
59501&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner</TT></DT></CENTER>

<CENTER><DT><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Rockit
1&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | '81 Olds
Cutlass
425&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR
> &quot;BT UR 4D&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;|
'70 Buick GS 455&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</TT></DT></CENTER>

<CENTER><DT><TT>(Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)<BR>
</TT>&nbsp;</DT></CENTER>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:16:24 -0400
Subject: Pwr. Wndw. HELP!

Both of the front windows mechanisms on my '65 98 are broken. This is a 2
door.

The gear driven from the motor is attached to the rest of mechanicals by a
small plate. The plate is riveted to this gear.

On BOTH windows, the rivet has fallen out...

What do I do???

A) Tear all the parts out and fix it right.

B) Some genius on the list knows a way to fix this while all the parts are
still in the door!!!

Thanx in Advance!!!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:48:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny & Super

At 04:43 PM 2/7/97 -0400, Kurt wrote:

>I just _really_read _ this and think you have it backwards

Kurt, you are absolutely right!  Goes to show how many times I look down at
my shifter... There really isn't much time when you are looking at the car
you just beat in your rear view mirror ;')

Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:39:34 -0400
Subject: "S" means "Superdrive"

> Useless trivia: Doesn't the "S" in Park-R-N-D-S-L actually stand for
> "Super" in some cases, and not simply "Second"? Maybe the Wiz can answer
> that one 'cause I think I'm going back a ways here...

According to my 1961 factory repair manual, "S" stands for
"Superdrive".  When you put the car into "S", it will shift from
first to second, then stay there until the car hits about 85 mph.
it will then shift into third on it's own.  Also, when slowing
down (presumably from 100 mph?), it will downshift on it's own
into second from third at about 85 mph.  It's meant for improved
performance and such.

Jeff King ('61 Super 88)
- --
=====================================================================
Jeffrey W. King (N5PNU)     Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290            Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249             Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)         214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)         If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
=====================================================================
              http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
=====================================================================

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:53:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>


>On the plus side, some other club members went to the South Bend SM Nats
>the next year and enjoyed it.  Less people (under 2000), their ISCA
>winning Challenger won a trophy (a non tubbed car no less), and just a
>better atmosphere overall.

I went to the South Bend SM Nats for several years thru the early '90's
when I lived near there.  Although there were some tubbed cars a lot of the
cars were
"normal" cars.  I would have quit going if it was as you described for
DuQuion.


- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:02:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Kathy Mattea swaps a Rocket 455 into a Ford Thunderturd

In a message dated 97-02-07 07:38:26 EST, you write:

>IMHO, the only music groups that deserve credit for Oldsmobile usage are
>Chicago for their "Stay The Night" video (now THAT'S how to drive an
>Olds) and Anthrax (http://www.fanbase.com/anthrax/index.html - - look
>under parafanalia (sic)) for their "Stomp 442" T-shirts (I gotta get me
>one of those).
>
>Scott Mullen
>'70 442 (One of the many original homes for a 455 Rocket)

Scott, If that's the way to drive a 4-4-2, then it might interest you to know
that, there is one less 4-4-2 in the world, thanks to Chicago's destructive
commercialism!   Ed   Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:13:23 -0400
Subject: Axle mania

Chris,

  On all my cars only 2 have the code stamped where the service manual
shows it.  On my 71 the code is on the front of the tube, and on my
66 its actually on the drivers side tube.

Mike
66 442
69 H/O
70 w30
71 442 convt

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:23:34 -0400
Subject: What does, I mean did, 442, W-30, etc stand for?

Bad, Mike, bad.  Truthful but bad.  See Spot run.  See Spot soil the tire
of the Lansing Lexus.  Bad, Dave, bad.  Truthful but bad.

Pretty good Mike!!  I liked it!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
  FAQ 3.0 hopefully available Monday (2/10) !!!
- ------------

Oldsmobiles future plan:

4saken, 4gotten, 2 bad.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: qwik@ticipa.Works.ti.com (Jack Wendel MSGID QWIK)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:33:43 -0400
Subject: Help!

Unfortunately, my workload has gotten so high that I need to temporarily
drop off of the list.  But, I can't remember how to do it for this list.
Would someone PLEASE post me with that information?  I hope to be back
on shortly with the VIN and engine numbers from my '69 442 for decoding.

L8R,

Jack (I HATE to ask this, but I have to) Wendel

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:47:19 -0400
Subject: NON OLDS: AOL & MSN Woes

All,

As a followup to recent discussion about service providers and if some
of the more popular ones are any good, I thought some of you may be
interested in the following info on two of Edison3's clients.

1) Direct Link of Texas of Richardson, TX is using AOL.  Email sent by
them have taken from 55 minutes to over 3 hours to be delivered to the
CPEQ server.

2) Sony Performance Award Center of Dallas, TX send a post at 6:30pm CST
on Wednesday.  It was received by the CPEQ server on *FRIDAY* at 3:00pm
EST (see header below for verification.).  Yup, that TWO DAYS LATER!

Yikes!  And you think you have problems.  BTW, my posts through CPEQ to
the Toro list are usually return within 5 to 15 minutes. My posts to the
Olds list are typically returned within 30 to 45 minutes.  And both of
these list servers are loctaed in Canada.

Way to go MSN.  Your actually worse than AOL.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


SONY PAC HEADER:

Received: from upsmot02.msn.com (upsmot02.msn.com [204.95.110.79]) by
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Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:05:47 -0500
Received: from upmajb04.msn.com ([204.95.110.81]) by upsmot02.msn.com 	
(8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id PAA07855 for <edison3@cpeq.com>;
Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:01:49 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 18:30:17 UT
From: "J RUSSELL" <PERFORMANCEAWARD@msn.com>
Message-Id: <UPMAIL07.199702072259450486@msn.com>
To: "Mike Frederick" <edison3@cpeq.com>
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:48:51 -0400
Subject: 65-66 88/98 Diagrams

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Spent about 6 minutes last night @ Kinko's making copies of the vacuum
diagram for a/c cars, (not heater, not comfortron. I also made 4 color
copies of the wiring diagram for the 1966 Jetstar, 88 and 98 models.

I'm keeping one, Walt in Tx gets one (his request), but the other
two are unspoken for. They're yours for the asking. Just let me
know where to send 'em.

I'll even throw in the envelope and stamp for free.

First two responses win.
cf

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #506
********************************
