To:	"DDA.RFC-822=oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca/P=ABTLAB/A=ABTLAB/C=US" @ 
SSWGATE
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #552


oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 7 March 1997        Volume 01 : Number 552

Re: Control arm bushings
Re: Bad News from yesterday
Re: Mondello
J.C. you know who quality Q...
Re: finishing 455 rebuild
TPS
Re: finishing 455 rebuild
solid lifters ( was 455 rebuild)
Engine efficiency/brakes
Bad news
Intercooler info...Turbo Basics....(only one part)
Turbo Basics...  Part 4 (long, but good)
Turbo Basics...  Part 5 (Final part of article)
Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque...
Re: Bad News from yesterday
Re: Mondello
oldsomible
Re: Bad News from yesterday
56 Olds
I've got on and I can't get off
Re: TPS
RE: TPS
Re: J.C. you know who Q...
Re: J.C. you know who quality Q...
Discount City (was Re: J.C. you know who quality Q...)
3/7 Olds Item For Sale
Re: Bad News from yesterday
Re: Olds in Miniature - Racing Champions
Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential
Iola Wisconsin Car Show
Subject: Re: T-3 Inquiry
Re: Engine efficiency/brakes
Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show
RE: Iola Wisconsin Car Show
Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show
Well wishes
Re: Well wishes
Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential
Re: Well wishes
Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show
test
Re: Well wishes
Re: Well wishes
Poor BHap (was Re: Well wishes)
Re: Well wishes
see ya later guys
Re[2]: Well wishes
BHap
Re: Well wishes
Re: Well wishes
Olds Marketing
Olds Club of FL Car Show and Swap Meet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:20:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Control arm bushings

>Hey everyone, I've decided to go with poly control arm bushings on the
>'71 Cutlass so I now have a full set (including 4 extra uppers)of >Perfect
Circle standard bushings that I don't need

Will the person who posted these for sale please contact me privately at
dpauliso@gate.net

Thanks!


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:31:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

>Well my luck ran out.  I was involved in an accident yesterday in my
>68 442.

Ooooh!  Ouch!  That hurts!  Sorry to hear about your misfortune.  These
kinds of things are always a real bummer.  Hopefully you won't have any
trouble getting it fixed in a timely manner.  Good luck!

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:54:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Mondello

Shang wrote:
>
> Ya'll please don't cream me for this one, is there a Mondello web site
> and could someone please provide me an address to get one of his product
> catalogs?


Try:http://webs.tcsn.net/mondello/

Danny

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:11:28 -0400
Subject: J.C. you know who quality Q...

Hey guys-n-gals!

I'm getting ready to finish one of my "fix to sell" projects (so I
can put more $$ into my Olds of course) and I need to find a good header
pannel.  The car is an '82 Buick Century, white (there are literally
hundreds of these things around town, so I'm sure you see them all the
time).  Anyway, the thing had bad head gaskets (almost finished with that)
and a smashed header pannel.  Now, J.C. Whitney has them in their catalog
for something like $135.  Sounds almost too good to be true, when the
junkyard wants more than that.  I was just wondering if anybody else has
ever bought one from these guys, and if so how the quality was.  My main
concern here is that the thing wont fit right, or it will be one of thoes
"trim to fit" jobs that will never fit right now matter how much you
"trim".
I bought my gasket set for that motor from J.C., becuase the price
was right, and since it was a Fel-Pro set, I figured I could'nt go wrong.
And aside from the fact that it did'nt include an intake gasket (catalog
said it would have one) and it took two weeks to get here (I asked for
second day air) I guess I can't complain too much.

Thats actually a lot
better service than the last time I ordered from them--around 1990.  That
was back when I had a '71 Super Beetle, and I ordered a small fortune of
stuff form Whitney, all of which was late (to the tune of a month or
more), most was this cheap Brazillion stuff that was just basically junk
(bumper that rusted in two weeks, seals that split in 3 months, etc).  My
orders were also incomplete, and since it had been so long since I
ordered, I coul'nt figure out what was missing.

Anyway, enough rambling.  It's this kind of thing that has left me
weary of ordering anything that dosn't have a brand name I recognize from
these guys.  Any personal experience you could offer would be greatly
appreciated...
Thanks,

Scott
1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98


P.S.--Has anybody ever ordered a carpet set for their classic Olds
from them?

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:09:12 -0400
Subject: Re: finishing 455 rebuild

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 dedarnell@electro-matic.com wrote:

>
> My first question is, should I buy a bigger oil pan?  I've heard about hi
> volume oil pumps sucking the pan dry, and  I have not made any mods to
> reduce oil flow to the top end.
**
I would look for a Toronado oil pan, it will fit fine and it holds an
extra quart, otherwise Milodon and Moroso make either 7 or 8 quart pans
(although they are kind of pricey)

**
>
> My second question is, I am replacing a 350 in a cutlass, and the height of
> the 455 with the torqer on it makes the engine pretty tall.  Willl this
> setup fit under my hood?(71 cutlass)  I am planning on using the stock 350
> mounts right now.

**
WOW, this set up sounds familiar!!!!!! My 71 Cutlass also has a 455
equiped with the Torker manifold and it is sitting on 350 mounts..I am
not sure what hood you are using but clearance is tight on my car (I have
an OAI hood with the screen removed and a aftermarket open element 14x3
aircleaner)...
**

> number 3.   With a cam this size should I be thinking about an adjustable
> valvetrain, or can I get buy with what I have?
>

Check lifter preload at TDC, I believe its supposed to be +- .050,
although I could be wrong its been about 2 years since I built up my
engine. If its off then you will have to get some sort of adjustable
setup. The cheapest way out would be just shimming (or grinding) the
rocker bridges for the correct preload, otherwise you could spend some
big bucks on an aluminum roller rockers or maybe try those adjustable
steel roller tip rockers....

Hope this helps..;-)

> Advice would be greatly appreciated.
> Dave Darnell ('71 cutlass convertible)
> email - dedarnell@electro-matic.com
>

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:21:54 -0400
Subject: TPS

All,

Today I replaced the Throttle Position Sensor on my Quad4 thinking it
would solve the problems I described several days ago.(rough operation,
high idle, etc.)  Well, I'm sorry to
say, the situation is still the same.  The new TPS didn't make a
difference.  About the only thing I can think of that might be wrong with
the motor is that it is something in the fuel system.
Maybe bad injectors or something...

                 Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:28:25 -0400
Subject: Re: finishing 455 rebuild

At 11:09 PM 3/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>setup. The cheapest way out would be just shimming (or grinding) the
>rocker bridges for the correct preload, otherwise you could spend some
>big bucks on an aluminum roller rockers or maybe try those adjustable
>steel roller tip rockers....

Beware! I think that some of those steel-tip rockers work on the stock
bridge setup, so they would be no more adjustable than the standard set of
rockers. Check over the archives to see who bought a set of rockers from
Mondello that were advertised as "adjustable valvetrain, no machining
required", only to find out it was the stamped rockers with shims (which
Crane sells for $9). That was one _unhappy_ customer!

Even with the adjustable rockers, however, isn't there the need of
special-length pushrods to maintain the proper rocker geometry?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:39:19 -0400
Subject: solid lifters ( was 455 rebuild)

Someone asked how solid lifters oil the valve train.
Solid lifters oil the upper valve train the same way hyd. lifters do. Thre
are a couple of different designs one is the inerta valve insert type made
by Eaton. The c*evy solid is called a edge orficing type. I think there is
also one called the piddle valve type. The edge-orfacing type doesn't let
as much oil reach the pushrod. I don't know if these different types are
available for Olds engines or not. Since they don't have easily adjusted
valve trains I don't imagine many people use solids in them.
A few engines such as the FE F*rd (352-428) and the B/B Chrysler don't oil
the valve train through the pushrods. These engines can use a shell lifter
which is hollow and the pushrod sits in the bottom of the lifter. This
makes the lifter much lighter and gives a few more rpm with a given valve
spring.
Walter

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:46:14 -0400
Subject: Engine efficiency/brakes

In response to what the Wiz said:
The energy the brakes gain from stopping the car is the kinetic energy the
car has built up by being propelled by the motor, is it not?
I don't think one can make a comparison between how much energy the car
requires for propulsion, especially when the car is cruising at a constant
rate down the Interstate, and how much energy the brakes absorb.  The
kinetic energy of the car is a function of it's mass, which is constant
(unless you are counting the gas that's being consumed), and the square of
its velocity.  So, the speed of the car is what's going to determine how
much energy the brakes will have to deal with, not how much energy the
motor produced to move the car.
What do you all think?

                 Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:01:14 -0400
Subject: Bad news

Chris,

Glad to hear you weren't injured in the accident!

However, I'm sad to hear about your pride-and-joy.

Anyway, It'll all work out.  At least your machine wasn't totally
destroyed! :)

May the Lord continue to richly bless you!!

                   Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:13:36 -0400
Subject: Intercooler info...Turbo Basics....(only one part)

In a message dated 97-03-01 13:31:47 EST, you write:

<< > I am going to have to go with the Wiz on this one. I think the heat is
 simply a unavoidable result of the combustion and doesn't help drive the
 turbo except from what ever expansion it gives the exaust gasses. The turbo
 would probably be a lot happier and the intake air cooler if the exaust gas
 wern't hot. I am sure some of the heat is transfered into the intake side.
 The cooler the intake side can be kept the more power the engine will make.
>>

Ummm, the article I've just posted say heat is part of driving the turbo.
 The next step is that there are "intercoolers" to go with the turbos, which
are part of the system.  I realized that I am missing some of the article,
but the basic idea is that an intercooler is nothing more that an air-to-air
cooler similar to a radiator, except it carries air going into the
carb/manifold.

Here are the basic "interesting points from the article:

You are not concerned with cooling the exhaust gasses, since that is not what
you pump into the intake, you want the intake charge as cool as possible.

Intake charge temp. is increased in several ways such as just by compressing
the gass it gets hotter.  Other reasons are friction and leakage inside the
blower, and in a torbo, part is tranferred from the hot exhaust turbine,
through the shaft to the impeller, to the intake charge.

A blower making 15 pounds of boost can easily raise intake charge temp. by
180 degrees (60 degrees ambient temperature going into the blower, 240
degrees going out).

When you heat the intake charge, you lose air density, hence losing something
in the process (good air density can make a car run much better, similar to
using a fresh air intake would).  So your increased boost of 15 pounds may
only be equivalent to 10 pounds after figuring in the density change.

Intake charge temp under full boost can get up to 250 degrees, so even using
70 to 90 degree air from the outside will help alot.

No intercoolers are 100% effective in cooling the charge, but depending on
size, etc., they can be 70-80% effective.


There are some rules which apply to them, and they are....

1) Use the largest intercooler pratical for maximum heat tranfer and minimum
pressure drop.

2) Position the intercooler in a fresh-air stream, prefereably at the front
of the vehicle, and unrestricted airflow ahead, and behind it.

3) Avoid sharp bends, especially right angles, in tubing to and from the
intercooler.

4) Do not mount the intercooler where it can absorb heat: in the engine
compartment, above the engine, near the exhuast, etc.

5) An auxiliary fan behind the intercooler will ensure a steady supply of
cool air, even when the car is not moving (at a stoplight; staging at drags).

6) To minimize response lag on timed fuel injection systems, prefereable
place the throttle close to the intake manifold.

7) Intercoolers are not recommended for draw through turbo systems.  Not only
is fuel condensation and separation a problem, but you also wouldn't want to
backfire into a cooler and ducting filled with pressurized fuel and air.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:13:32 -0400
Subject: Turbo Basics...  Part 4 (long, but good)

Here's part 4 of this....

The problem is that a centrifugal compressor has to spin at a very high speed
9around 10,000 RPM) to make a typical 10 to 15 pounds of boost.  that's why
it's so difficult to make a belt driven centifugal blower.  Using the
exhaust-driven turbine to drive the compressor solves most of those problems,
although it does contribute to the annoyance of "turbo lag": since it is not
directly driven, and must operate over such a wide RPM range (say 30,000 up
to 100,000 or more), the turbine/shaft/impeller must overcome the inertia of
it's own weight (among other things) between the time you open the throttle
and the turbine "spools up" to effective speed.

But the real complication of turbochargers is in the non-linear boost curve.
 let's say you want 15 pounds of boost at 5000 engine RPM.  No problem.  But
at half that speed (2500 RPM), roughtly speaking, the turbo will give only
about 4 pounds of boost; and if you rev the engine up to 7500 RPM, the boost
would skyrocket over 50 psi (bye, bye motor).  If the engine operates in a
narrow RPM band (such as a diesel truck, or an airplane), matching a turbo to
it is relatively easy.  But automobile engines-especially high performance
ones-need power through a wide RPM band.

This is where turbocharging gets complicated-matching turbo speed and output
with the engine speed and size.  There are lots of variables to juggle.  Just
consider the compressor side, each compressor has a certain efficiency range,
as well as a "surge" point (since it's not a positive displacement pump, at
certain low-flow/high pressure points the boost can begin to "back-up" or
"bleed back" through the rotor vanes).  The efficiency range of a turbo
compressor be shown on a "map", which is a graph plotted from three
variables: rotor speed, boost pressure (pressure differential across the
compressor), and airflow.  However compressor speed depends directly on
turbine speed, and this depends on exhaustgas flow and temperature.  Turbine
speed also increases exponentially compared to exhaust flow, and the turbine
has a given efficiency range.  Plus the compressor creates exhuast
backpressure, which should be offset by increased manifold pressure.  So you
need to match the compressor output to the engine's parameters, and you neeed
to match the turbine to the engine's exhaust output (compounded by the
turbo's input on the intake side), and you need to match the turbine to the
compressor.  The turbo's complexity curve is beginning to match it's boost
curve.

<snip... see part 5...>
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:13:37 -0400
Subject: Turbo Basics...  Part 5 (Final part of article)

Here's part 5...

Typical practice is to select a compressor (or pair of them) to deliver a
certain amount of boost to a given size engine in a certain engine RPM range
and in the turbo efficiency area.  These numbers are estimates that hopefully
get you in the ball park.  Then you can adjust turbo rotor speed by changing
the size of the exhaust turbine housing-this is roughly comparable to
changing pulley ratios on a belt driven blower.  for all turbos a range of
turbine housings is available, and they can be quickly swapped.  most are
designated by an "A/R Ratio" size, which is the ratio of the exhuast inlet
cross-sectional area to the scroll housing radius.  The smaller the inlet
opening, in proportion to housing size, the faster the turbo will spin.
 General practice is to start with a fairly lagre A/R housing, say 1.2, and
work down to a smaller size in safe increments of testing.  Over-boosting the
engine can be fatal.

The common method for protecting against overboost, and at the same time
giving a turbo a wider useable boost range, is to add a wastegate ahead of
the turbo inlet.  The wastegateis simply a pressure valve which diverts
exhaust gases above a certain pressure around the turbo.  Most wastegates are
adjustable.  Plus there are several other methods for adjusting or "trimming"
the turbo itself, as well as controlling the maximum boost by external means.

We haven't even begun to discuss particular turbocharger apllications, such
as dual versus single turbos, or "blow through" (the turbo pumps dry air into
the carb or injectors) versus "draw through" (carburetor mounted upstream of
the turbo, which pumps air/fuel mix into engine) installations.  For further
information, including examples of turbo maps and how to read them, we
recommend the recently revised book "Turbochargers" by Hugh MacInnes (HP
Books, P.O. Box 5367, Tucson, Az. 85703).  More than that we can't say here,
except that the more you know about turbochargers, the more you'll like 'em.

Well, that's it for this article, hope it comes in handy, or is
informational.

Chris (whew, that's finally done...) Ruper

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:49:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque...

I'd like that too - I'm sure my Vista Cruiser would think she deserves *at
least* a plaque for hauling people that many miles (+18,000)


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:49:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

I don't suppose its a good idea to ask you if you ever got your insurance
figured out?  Sympathies on your baby being damaged and we wish you
Godspeed to getting her back together and on the road.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:15:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mondello

theogns wrote:
>
> Shang wrote:
> >
> > Ya'll please don't cream me for this one, is there a Mondello web site
> > and could someone please provide me an address to get one of his product
> > catalogs?
>
> Try:            http://webs.tcsn.net/mondello/
>
> Danny


Thanks man

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Wayne & Linda McKenna <wamlmbmckenna@sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 06:00:19 -0400
Subject: oldsomible

I would like to know wher Ican find chrome dress up parts for my 1973
rocket motor.also looking for t-top molding for 1984 cutlass calia
write me at fkjw67e@prodigy.com

------------------------------

From: Chris & Robin Miller <cya442@INETWORLD.NET>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:10:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

Chris,

Sorry to hear about you 442:(  I swear that since I have been out here
in CA. the drivers here are worse than in Wash. DC.  I'm definitely
going to try and stay away from the Hwy.  Glad to here you were OK and
good luck on the rebuild.

Chris Miller
cya442@inetworld.net

------------------------------

From: chray@Logical.Net
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:52:28 -0400
Subject: 56 Olds

Ira Siegelman - trying to reach you about the 56 Olds manual.  You're e-mail
address does not work.  Please contact me at chray@logical.net
Ray Rettig
'56 Rocket 88

------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:26:27 -0400
Subject: I've got on and I can't get off

I think we should all be thankful that some one has taken the time to =0D=

establish this forum for us to discus our interest/love of Oldsmobiles.  =
It =0D
should be left up to that person=92s own discretion on how they would lik=
e to =0D
manage the process of  enrollment and un-enrollment as the case may be.  =
=0D
Saying scr*w-um does not add value to the forum or our reputation.  Part =
of =0D
what I like about the Oldsmobile community is that they tend not to be a =
bunch=0D
of young punk kids that say scr*w you when some-one has a problem.  I=92v=
e found=0D
our network to be very useful and friendly.=0D
=0D
Thanks=92=0D
=0D
My 2=A2=0D
=0D
Josh=0D

------------------------------

From: DUKEOFBLUZ@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:29:06 -0400
Subject: Re: TPS

My bosses truck was acting the same and he replaced the TPS also, what it
turned out to be was that the intake was sucking air around the base gasket
of the Central port injector. "it was a Vortec", so if you have'nt yet tried
it , spray some carb cleaner around and see if your sucking air in.

Jeffrey T. Fieldsend
75 Hurst/Olds W25
75 Hurst/Olds W30

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:46:58 -0400
Subject: RE: TPS

Jim, this is just a thought, try cleaning/replaceing the idle control valve. I
dont know where it is located on the Quad4. I dont have any doc's on this
engine. It is a valve that controls the idle, from the computer, and can get
carboned up. This part can cause the trouble you are haveing.

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the.....Past)
______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Thu, Mar 6, 1997 11:32 PM Subject: TPS
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

All,

Today I replaced the Throttle Position Sensor on my Quad4 thinking it
would solve the problems I described several days ago.(rough operation,
high idle, etc.)  Well, I'm sorry to
say, the situation is still the same.  The new TPS didn't make a
difference.  About the only thing I can think of that might be wrong with
the motor is that it is something in the fuel system.
Maybe bad injectors or something...

                 Jim Townsend



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------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:38:07 -0400
Subject: Re: J.C. you know who Q...

I almost forgot, you asked about a carpet set from them.  I know a guy
who bought a "molded" carpet for his pick up from Whitney.  It was more
or less flat and would not lay down in the truck.  It reminded me of a
piece of plywood.  He could have gotten a molded carpet through a trim
shop and it would have fit for a few dollars more.  You get what you pay
for.  Call Auto Custom Carpet in Anniston, Alabama, they sell direct and
have adds in all of the car magazines.  I have installed many of their
sets and they fit.

Dave (who used to be in the upholstery business) Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:29:25 -0400
Subject: Re: J.C. you know who quality Q...

I have ordered VW body parts from them and did not have a good time.
They sent two left side floor pans instead of a left and a right.  I did
manage to get them to pay for the return shipping since it was their
mistake.  As you mentioned it was all Brazillian made and beer can
thick.  Based on my experience I would never buy anything for the Olds
from them.  I go to NAPA and get the right parts the first time with no
hassle.  I may pay a few dollars more, but I have someone to work with
if there is a problem.  With J.C. Whitney you get a recent imigrant who
can barely speak english.  Another thing about dealing with NAPA or any
other good auto parts store is that you can get parts the next day if
they are out of stock locally.  As far as your Buick is concerned, go to
the local wrecking yard and get the part you need.  It will fit and save
you a lot of time.  Time is money, right?

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:56:44 -0400
Subject: Discount City (was Re: J.C. you know who quality Q...)

Somebody should get in touch with some of the other mail-order companies
besides JC and see if we can get Olds list members a group discount!  One
of the other lists I'm on has a group discount with Year One (with whom
I've never had particularly bad quality problems), so I get 10% off of
anything I order.  Hmmm, I wonder if I could get a 20% off if the Olds
list joined too?  :-)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, david wyatt wrote:

> from them.  I go to NAPA and get the right parts the first time with no
> hassle.  I may pay a few dollars more, but I have someone to work with
> if there is a problem.  With J.C. Whitney you get a recent imigrant who

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:26:55 -0400
Subject: 3/7 Olds Item For Sale

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to
sell:

1971 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual.  Shop dirty, but not worn out
or torn up.  $40, plus shipping. (3/7/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to
purchase this item or if you would like additional information about
it.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:45:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

Hi Lisa,

> I don't suppose its a good idea to ask you if you ever got your
> insurance figured out?

It's ok to ask.  No it didn't get straightened out.  I am on pins
and needles worrying about who will be found at fault.  I certainly
wasn't at fault.  One good thing though is that the person who started
this whole mess is with the same insurance company.

Later...

Chris Sparks
68 442 (Still running, a little hurt)

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:56:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds in Miniature - Racing Champions

BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov wrote:
>
>      All,
>      Saw in the April "Hot Rod" that Racing Champions is issuing a 1969
>      Oldsmobile.  Hope it's the 442 from their latest Collector Gift box
>      from this past Holiday.  There will be 3 issued, I guess different
>      colors. One each month of March, April & May at K-Mart, WalMart,
>      Target, ToysRUs and "other fine stores".  They have a web page @
>      www.racingchampions.com
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I tried this URL and it didn't work....

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:58:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

>>attempted to prime the pump (again - ick!). Then I turned on the wipers and
>>pushed on the button for fluid. Well, I've solved half the problem, one side
>>of the windshield gets a forceful stream of fluid. And you can probably
guess >>which side that is. (Muffled expletives!) Next step is to check
driver's side >>tubing/jet more carefully. > >That rubber diaphram check-valve
is probably just plain worn out on the >driver's side. You might want to
splurge the $9 for a pump rebuild kit, and >have both sides working.

I would suggest as a first step simply swapping the right and left hoses
at the pump outlet. If the problem changes sides, it's a bad valve in the
pump; if it does not, it's a clog somewhere in the driver's-side tubing.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:19:28 -0400
Subject: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

Anybody planning on going to the big car show in Iola Wisconsin
this July?  I originally dismissed this show as; a> I had no idea
where it was and b> it didnt sound interesting.

Well, I just read that they are celebrating the olds centennial
this year and that they plan to have a model from each of Olds
100 years there.  Hmmm.  Sounds like a warm-up to the Lansing
event.  I looked it up on a map and Iola is a tiny town about
in the center of the state.  Kinda west of Green Bay and south
of Wasau.  Hard to believe they can hold a huge car show there.

Anybody going this year or have gone in the past?  Is it worth
a 200 mile ride to get there? :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:07:04 -0400
Subject: Subject: Re: T-3 Inquiry

>Thanks - I'm taking Dave up on his offer - as long as they arent the horror
>movie orange versions like I've got now.

They're _orange_? The only time I've seen headlamps that dim was when a
bad ground allowed the low and high beam filaments in the bulb to burn
in series -- that will get you that color. Have you swapped in a newer
bulb to verify that the T-3s are at fault here?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:29:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine efficiency/brakes

At 12:46 AM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In response to what the Wiz said:
>The energy the brakes gain from stopping the car is the kinetic energy the
>car has built up by being propelled by the motor, is it not?
>I don't think one can make a comparison between how much energy the car
>requires for propulsion, especially when the car is cruising at a constant
>rate down the Interstate, and how much energy the brakes absorb.  The
>kinetic energy of the car is a function of it's mass, which is constant
>(unless you are counting the gas that's being consumed), and the square of
>its velocity.  So, the speed of the car is what's going to determine how
>much energy the brakes will have to deal with, not how much energy the
>motor produced to move the car.
>What do you all think?
>
>                 Jim Townsend
>
>
>
I agree with this.  The original poster to this thread said that 50% of the
total fuel consumed was being absorbed by the brakes.  Maybe at rush hour in
all but non-moving traffic, and even then I would assume it was being used
with the engine at idle.

I remember reading an article about tractor trailer combinations that had
300 hp engines, and 3000 hp brakes, which indicates that the brakes are
involved with considerable BTU development, I can't believe that that number
is anything but insignificant; in anything but the severest vehicle
operations, in the negative sense.

My query was from the position that I believe that it would take some
extreme driving conditions for an operator to be using anything but a very
small portion of the engines output being consumed by brakeing.  I think
that even everyday driving, which has more brake applications than highway
would still show very small numbers of fuel consumption devoted to brake
application.

And I am assuming that the original intention of this thread was to equate
the BTU developed by the brakes to the BTU of the fuel consumed to move the
vehicle that is wasted as far as a MPG figure is concerned.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:45:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

At 11:19 AM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Anybody planning on going to the big car show in Iola Wisconsin
>this July?  I originally dismissed this show as; a> I had no idea
>where it was and b> it didnt sound interesting.
>
>Well, I just read that they are celebrating the olds centennial
>this year and that they plan to have a model from each of Olds
>100 years there.  Hmmm.  Sounds like a warm-up to the Lansing
>event.  I looked it up on a map and Iola is a tiny town about
>in the center of the state.  Kinda west of Green Bay and south
>of Wasau.  Hard to believe they can hold a huge car show there.
>
>Anybody going this year or have gone in the past?  Is it worth
>a 200 mile ride to get there? :-)

I'm not planning to go because it's out of the way.  But to answer your
apparent question, the reason there is a car show in Iola, Wisconsin, of
all places, is because Iola is the home town of Old Cars Weekly, a weekly
newspaper-type publication covering the old car hobby.  They also publish
the Old Cars Price Guide, which has discussed on here recently.

Dan



>
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>1970  442  4-Speed
>see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton
>
>
>
**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

From: "R.B. Short" <rbshort@barnessmithlewis.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:47:47 -0400
Subject: RE: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2ADC.A56D32A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would love to go to the Iola show as well as Lansing, but I'm so far =
away I can only make one (it'll have to be Lansing). Iola is where Old =
Cars newspaper is located and is in some real  "Old Car Country" from =
what I can tell. My daughter used to live in Madison and I made sure to =
visit her when a car show was in the area. That was nearly any summer =
weekend.
     We attended a really neat Chevy show & swap meet (yeah, I know) in =
Elkhorn, WI one summer. It is a tiny town but put on a really fabulous =
event. I suspect Iola will be a great one, particularly for Olds guys. =
(by the way, if you don't subscribe to Old Cars newspaper, you might =
give it a look. The nicest thing about it is it comes every week - a =
regular infusion of new hobby blood!).
                               R.B. Short, OKC, OK
                               '56 Olds 98

- ----------
From: Easton,Jeffrey[SMTP:Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 1997 9:19 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

Anybody planning on going to the big car show in Iola Wisconsin
this July?  I originally dismissed this show as; a> I had no idea
where it was and b> it didnt sound interesting.

Well, I just read that they are celebrating the olds centennial
this year and that they plan to have a model from each of Olds
100 years there.  Hmmm.  Sounds like a warm-up to the Lansing
event.  I looked it up on a map and Iola is a tiny town about
in the center of the state.  Kinda west of Green Bay and south
of Wasau.  Hard to believe they can hold a huge car show there.

Anybody going this year or have gone in the past?  Is it worth
a 200 mile ride to get there? :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton




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------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:50:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

At 11:19 AM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Anybody planning on going to the big car show in Iola Wisconsin
>this July?  I originally dismissed this show as; a> I had no idea
>where it was and b> it didnt sound interesting.
>
>Well, I just read that they are celebrating the olds centennial
>this year and that they plan to have a model from each of Olds
>100 years there.  Hmmm.  Sounds like a warm-up to the Lansing
>event.  I looked it up on a map and Iola is a tiny town about
>in the center of the state.  Kinda west of Green Bay and south
>of Wasau.  Hard to believe they can hold a huge car show there.
>
>Anybody going this year or have gone in the past?  Is it worth
>a 200 mile ride to get there? :-)
>
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>1970  442  4-Speed
>see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton
>
>

Isn't Iola the home of Kruse(sp) publishing company?

If so, they can probably advertise the heck out of it, and get some decent
turnout.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:50:16 -0400
Subject: Well wishes

I would like to personally thank all of you who have expressed your
sympathy and well wishes for my dilemma.  I feel that there is a
special friendship between all of us.  This makes me feel good to know
that I can count on the moral support provided.  Being friends I know
that we can share the technical and some non-techincal experiences
with each other.  I was dissappointed in one reader on the list who
callously wrote this:

Subject: your loss
   Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:38:20 -0500 (EST)
   From: BHap@aol.com
     To: sparks@wanchai.aisf.com

sorry to hear about your loss - but this is supposed to be like a
tecnical page - not a soap opera......

I don't feel that I abuse the bandwidth and I try to be very respectful
of others on this list.  If I am then maybe I should be banned from
this list.  Yes I may appear overly sensitive on this issue, however,
I am quite upset about the accident.  I have NEVER been in an accident
before and the whole process shook me down to my core.  Well enough on
this.  I will let all of you know my progress, regardless of what
"BHap" thinks (cowardly I think in not identifying yourself).

Status: I got an estimate and it is about $3,000.00.  Ouch!!!!!!!!

Later...

Chris Sparks
68 442 (She should have an account called "BMean")

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:17:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

> I would like to personally thank all of you who have expressed your
> sympathy and well wishes for my dilemma.  I feel that there is a
> special friendship between all of us.

My belated condolences, Chris... damage to a beloved vehicle are all
the more painful when it's totally (sorry -- no pun intended) not your
fault.

> I was dissappointed in one reader on the list who
> callously wrote this:

<snipped>

> I don't feel that I abuse the bandwidth and I try to be very respectful
> of others on this list.  If I am then maybe I should be banned from
> this list.

You definitely do not waste bandwidth; we are all (ok, *mostly* all :) )
are friends here, and we all like to know about events concerning other
members' Oldses, whether the news is good or bad.  There have been too many
sad stories of late vis-a-vis collisions (one is too many, anyway), but even
disregarding the sympathy factor, others on the list might have parts to help
repairs!  A valid reason for talkin' about it on the list -- maybe BHap has
seen one too many soaps in hir lifetime that (s)he relates everything in those
terms? :)

> Yes I may appear overly sensitive on this issue, however,
> I am quite upset about the accident.  I have NEVER been in an accident
> before and the whole process shook me down to my core.  Well enough on
> this.  I will let all of you know my progress, regardless of what
> "BHap" thinks (cowardly I think in not identifying yourself).

Maybe BHap is actually the driver of that Hackura (I forgot if it was a Honda
or an Acura, hence the amalgamation -- or is that abomination? -- of the
make).

:) :) :)

> Status: I got an estimate and it is about $3,000.00.  Ouch!!!!!!!!

Hopefully completely covered by the offender's insurance...
at least there are no hospital costs there, too, Chris.  And the car does
move under it's own power; it could've been worse, for you and the car.

Later bro...


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 03:39:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

>I would suggest as a first step simply swapping the right and left hoses
>at the pump outlet. If the problem changes sides, it's a bad valve in the
>pump; if it does not, it's a clog somewhere in the driver's-side tubing.
>
>Andrew C. Green

Not a bad idea.  I can't tell you how many old hoses get plugged up around
here just by sitting...

!@ª$%&* mud daubers will pack anything full of dirt and dead spiders.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: BHap@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds info
and help in technical areas - which I have gotten from a few knowledgable
members on this list.  Instead I have been bombarded with stupid comments,
melodramatic stories and generally have wasted a good deal of time sorting
through the glut of junk-e-mail to find the few pieces that actually say
something useful.  Well it was worth the effort - but in the future - I'll go
to real sources of information and not a bunch of losers and wannabe's

BHap

------------------------------

From: Timothy Carl Hietpas <thietpas@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:50:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Iola Wisconsin Car Show

On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Daniel A. Gulino wrote:

> At 11:19 AM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Anybody planning on going to the big car show in Iola Wisconsin
> >this July?  I originally dismissed this show as; a> I had no idea
> >where it was and b> it didnt sound interesting.
> >
> >Well, I just read that they are celebrating the olds centennial
> >this year and that they plan to have a model from each of Olds
> >100 years there.  Hmmm.  Sounds like a warm-up to the Lansing
> >event.  I looked it up on a map and Iola is a tiny town about
> >in the center of the state.  Kinda west of Green Bay and south
> >of Wasau.  Hard to believe they can hold a huge car show there.
> >
> >Anybody going this year or have gone in the past?  Is it worth
> >a 200 mile ride to get there? :-)
>
> I'm not planning to go because it's out of the way.  But to answer your
> apparent question, the reason there is a car show in Iola, Wisconsin, of
> all places, is because Iola is the home town of Old Cars Weekly, a weekly
> newspaper-type publication covering the old car hobby.  They also publish
> the Old Cars Price Guide, which has discussed on here recently.
>
Dan,

I have been going to the Iola car show for the last 7 years.  I
will never miss this show if I could ever help it!!  The show has been
getting so big that people start camping there Wednesday night!! The show
does not officially start until Friday morning.  The cars that enter come
from as far away as California.  Also, this is my favorite part, the
"SWAP MEET"!!!  This is one of the midwests largest swap meets.  I spend
all day Friday and Saturday looking through other peoples junk for my
treasures.  Onfortuntally, ch*vy parts are everywhere and our beloved
Olds parts are for and far between.  The upside of this story is though
the vendors usually bring the parts they know they will be able to sell
but usually leave the less demanded parts in the trailer or back home.
They are always more than willing to make deal for these parts.  If you
love cars I would not miss this event.  The cars the show attracts are
beautiful and the with this year being dedicated to Olds I would make
sure to bring extra film!!  Hope to see you there!!!

Tim

thietpas@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu
1987 Olds 442

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:54:27 -0400
Subject: test

not getting mail, just a test.

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:19:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

At 12:41 PM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds info
>and help in technical areas - which I have gotten from a few knowledgable
>members on this list.  Instead I have been bombarded with stupid comments,
>melodramatic stories and generally have wasted a good deal of time sorting
>through the glut of junk-e-mail to find the few pieces that actually say
>something useful.  Well it was worth the effort - but in the future - I'll go
>to real sources of information and not a bunch of losers and wannabe's
>
>BHap
>
>


   BHap,


  I've gotta admitt, I delete 90%+ of the mail without reading it, however I
have found several useful mailings from it.  The latest is a new 45 degree
cam that I just got from John Berenyi for my '65 442.  Chriss Brown Witt was
good nouggh to steer me in the right direction for Olds web pages, Mondello
Performance, and the FAQ section when I had just bought my first Olds ('67
442) .  I've found everyone I've talk to through this list to be a true Olds
person.  Granted not everything printed is Olds tech related, but so what?
It takes less than a minute to wade through the ones you don't want and
trash them.  I'll bet it takes even less time to get off the list.


   Paul Brillhart

   '67 442 Auto
   '65 442 4-spd.

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 04:39:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

>welcome to the losers club.......

.  Well it was worth the effort - but in the future - I'll go
>to real sources of information and not a bunch of losers and wannabe's
>
>BHap
>
Oh no!  Please don't call us losers!   Ooooh!   He called me a looser!
Careful everyone!  He might start insulting our mothers next.  And then
he'll tell us our cars suck, and he'll make fun of our genitals!  And if it
escalates he might stack our lockers or give us wedgies!

Greg Pruett

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:49:06 -0400
Subject: Poor BHap (was Re: Well wishes)

It sounds like someone has their panties in a bunch!  Hey there BHap,
take it easy.  Some of us care about our Oldsmobiles more than you can
ever imagine.  I have had mine for 24 years this October and I'm a
little attached to it.  I have the same feelings towards it that I do
towards my two sons.  Maybe that is extreme to you, but not to me and
some others on this list.  Yes there is a fair amount of B.S. in some of
these notes, but I can always find time to laugh about it.  I have been
on the list since last summer and I have picked up a ton of info.  As
far as losers and wannabes goes, most of us are dedicated car nuts with
a good life ahead of us and some with a good part already behind us.  I
hope you stick around so you can change your mind and eat your words.
Try to BHappier in the future, you will feel better.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:18:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

At 12:41 PM 3/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>... I'll go...
>
>BHap


Yes Please!


Thank You, Drive Through

Ray

------------------------------

From: Matt Breitbach <mbreitba@iastate.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:32:41 -0400
Subject: see ya later guys

well guys, spring is here, and i will be off the list for a week or so.
talk to you later.

matt breitbach

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:34:11 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Well wishes

Since you must obviously be an expert on where to obtain the best Olds info,
maybe you would like to expertly enlighten us, as you have expertly told us
that we only share drivel.

Don't recall seeing any questions from yourself that needed "expert" advise.
Did you forget how to unsubscribe?

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ----------

   From: BHap@aol.com

welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds info
and help in technical areas - which I have gotten from a few knowledgable
members on this list.  Instead I have been bombarded with stupid comments,
melodramatic stories and generally have wasted a good deal of time sorting
through the glut of junk-e-mail to find the few pieces that actually say
something useful.  Well it was worth the effort - but in the future - I'll go
to real sources of information and not a bunch of losers and wannabe's

BHap

------------------------------

From: Death <dldeathe@mail.pittstate.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:40:46 -0400
Subject: BHap

  BHap, you need to pull your head out of your anus and get
some fresh air.

 Junk e-mail?
The information that has been on the list lately represents
the interests of those who asked! And were EXTREMELY
VALUABLE TO THOSE WHO WERE INTERESTED!

Did you even bother to ask a question?
Or did you just suscribe and start complaining?


Try asking a question.  You may very well get an
intelligent answer, and maybe even some useful info.


Have a good day :)
Deatherage

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:54:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

- ----------
> From: BHap@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Well wishes
> Date: Friday, March 07, 1997 10:41 AM
>
> welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds
info
> and help in technical areas - which I have gotten from a few knowledgable
> members on this list.
> BHap
> I haven't seen you ask any techicnal questons. I have seen the poeple
here go to a lot of trouble to answer some of the questons that come up. I
hated reading about Chris's misfortune but I sure didn't think he was out
of line by telling us about it. I hope he has some good news to report
soon. I didn't say anything earlier because lots of people here already had
before I got a chance to read my mail. Good luck on geting your Olds back
in shape I hope its better than ever when you get done.
Walter

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:14:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Well wishes

>welcome to the losers club.......i joined hoping to get access to olds info
>and help in technical areas - which I have gotten from a few knowledgable
>members on this list.  Instead I have been bombarded with stupid comments,
>melodramatic stories and generally have wasted a good deal of time sorting
>through the glut of junk-e-mail to find the few pieces that actually say
>something useful.  Well it was worth the effort - but in the future - I'll go
>to real sources of information and not a bunch of losers and wannabe's
>
>BHap

BYE!

*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:34:38 -0400
Subject: Olds Marketing

Bob Barry wrote:

<<See, traditions like that Mercedes one only develops customer loyalty, and
it is clear from their recent actions that Oldsmobile today doesn't want any
of that from _us_ (they have quite literally said that). >>

Right on!

Loyal, long time customers don't seem to matter.  In their (marketing) view,
loyal customers are such a small group compared to the import lovers, that
the latter are obviously the target.

I thought it had been shown time and time again that failure to obtain
customer loyalty will lead to ultimate failure.

I also don't understand why both groups can't be courted.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:34:48 -0400
Subject: Olds Club of FL Car Show and Swap Meet

Just a reminder to the great folks on this list that the OCF show and swap
meet is set to happen April 25-27 in Orlando, FL.

We will have a Firday evening get together for those folks coming in a little
early. The show Saturday will feature OCA style judging. This means that cars
are judged against a 1,000 point theoretical perfect score. Every car that
receives a score of 900+ points will receive a 1st place award, 800+ a second
and 700+ a third.  Highest score is Best of Class as long as the score =
900+.

Best of Show, Best Engine, Best Paint, Long Distance, Best Interior and a few
other special awards will also be given.

We will have a live DJ, free door prizes, show T-shirts, hot food, dash
plaques, goody bags, craft booths, ample trailer parking and a bunch of door
prizes.  A 50/50 raffle and chances on two round-trip airline tickets donated
by Air-Tran airlines. These tickets are good between any cities they service.
 We expect _more_ goodies as the show date approaches.  Being it is the 100th
Anniversary of Olds, the 7 Orlando area Olds dealers are supporting this show
big time.

Saturday evening and Sunday have many other possible attractions.  The
Saturday Night Cruise at Old Town Kissimmee (next to Disney) is the largest
of it's type in the world!  They average 300-400 cars every Saturday.  The
cruise is open to all pre-73 cars. The added attraction of this cruise is
that it really is a cruise. At 8:30PM all the cars fire 'em up and drive down
a small brick road past thousands of tourists and fans.  It's a lot of fun
with every type of pre-73 vehicle you can think of.  Rods, customs, muscle
cars, special interest, kit cars, etc.

Orlando Speed World had drags Saturday night.  The Race Rock Restaurant off
of I-4 is great with complete race vehicles all over the place.  From Big
Foot style Monster Trucks to NASCAR racers to top fuel dragsters to a
Budweiser Unlimted Hydro boat to dirt bikes to you name it.  TV's all over
the place show live and taped racing action. And the food's actually edible!

Daytona Beach is also nearby with many auto related attractions including a
Corvette museum, the Daytona track itself and a new "ride" with user action
and trivia atractions.

And, of course, there is good ol' Disney, MGM and Universal Studios, Sea
World and all the other Orlando area attractions.

Sunday morning there will be a coffee and donuts farewell.  That assumes you
aren't already going somewhere else.

The meet will be held at the Holiday Inn Orlando East which is across the
street from the University of Central Florida campus. It is a beautiful treed
parking lot adjacent to a large open field (for swap spaces, trailer parking,
etc.) The special show rate is $65/nite. That's a great rate for Orlando and
it is a full service hotel.  Make your reservations before April 1st as after
that the rooms blocked and rate expire. Do NOT call the Holiday Inn 800
number.  They won't know what you are talking about.  You must call the hotel
direct to get the reduced rate for this show.  Their number is (407)275-9000.

Come on down!   If you can't make Lansing to celebrate the Olds Centennial,
try our show.  We are putting a phenominal amount of work into this show, it
will show that I promise.

If anyone would like more information and a show flyer, please e-mail me
direct and include your snail mail address.  Questions - please e-mail
direct.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª552
********************************
