oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca 
02/19/97 11:22 PM
To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #524


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 20 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 524

Re: Early V8s
Re:1973  Olds 98
Re: #Oldsmobile--on Dal.net
Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation
Re: Build Sheets
RE: Seats
Re: 88' Rear Ends
Re: Full Size Anti Spin
RE: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation
Olds list archives (fwd)
Pronouncing 442
Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation
Re: Pronouncing 442
RE: transmission question
Re: Full Size Anti Spin
Re: Exhaust System
Re: Spline #
Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap
Re: Results from Myclassiccar.com
Lightning Rod Shifter
Re: Spline #
Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation
Disc Brake Conversion Costs
9" F*rd rears
Latest Car & Driver
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: 88' Rear Ends
Grilles
Squeak! Squeak! Squeak!....
Re: looking for a console
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: Spline #
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Lightning Rod Shifter
Re: Lightning Rod Shifter
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap
Re: #Oldsmobile--on Dal.net
Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap (was re: WTB 350 Exhaust Manifold &Question)
OLDSMOBILE CUTTLAS SALON 1974.
Re: 9" F*rd rears
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: block sizes revisited - the mini series
Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Exhaust System
Re: Exhaust System
Olds Starfire curiosities
350 engines, tell me...
Re: Nitrous on 84 Hurst...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:47:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Early V8s

At 04:01 AM 2/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>The Wiz wrote:
>
>> Did the Cadillac use fork and spade connecting rods?
>
>My book indicates they used fork and blade connecting rods with
>nonstaggered cylinder blocks.  How do these early style rods differ from
>later ones?  What engineering limitation assured their demise?
>
>Kevin Wong
>
>
>
The fork and spade con rods were unlike the rods of today.  The 'fork' rod
looked like a clevis socket, and the other was a thin blade.  The clevis
socket end had two rod caps, and the blade had one.  The fork bearing was
then split, and the blade rod went between the two halves of the fork.  Both
rods were centered on the throw so it was necessary to keep the cylinders
aligned, not staggered.  When the engine turned over, the blade rod went
between the two legs of the fork.

The design was ungainly, and when staggered cylinders were developed it
allowed for a very simple rod, the same basic design as used in inline
engines.

I think the fork and blade V type engines were engineered out of existance
by the simplicity of the staggered engines.  The fork and blade engines were
probably the same length as 4 cylinder engines of the same bore centers, and
staggered engines are about 5 cylinders long, so a little space was lost,
but apparently the simplicity and ruggedness of the staggered engines made
up for this small defficency (sp).

Some of the early V8 engines are of fairly unusual design, beyond the early
connecting rods.  I believe the 1917-18 Chevrolet, Model "D," V8 was made up
of two castings, basically split down the Center line of the crank.  They
were identical castings that were simply bolted together.  Mono-block V8's
didn't hit until much later.  Ford said they were the first to make a 'low
cost' mono-block V8, with their inception in 1932.  This indicates that one
or some of the higher priced V8s must have been mono-block prior to 1932.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "George S. Winistorfer" <gsw72@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:55:04 -0400
Subject: Re:1973  Olds 98

Hey,

The only smog stuff on that engine, (if its the same as mine) should be the
EGR valve and the extremely limiting cylinder heads, unless it is a CA car
which might have more smog crap on it.  My73 455 has no smog pump or header
tubes or anything, and the car its in is BONE stock, I dont think the
previous owner even changed the plugs, let alone removed smog equipment.

Have fun,

George

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:14:02 -0400
Subject: Re: #Oldsmobile--on Dal.net

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 evans1@serv01.net-link.net wrote:
> For those of us who have no idea of what to do or how to get there (like
> me)..could you tell us what is required to get to/participate in this?

You need to have a IRC client for your PC. One good one is called mIRC,
and you can download it free from a few places. It has versions for both
3.1 and Win95. There may also be a Mac version. If you do a web search for
"mIRC" it should turn up. Anyway, once you install it you can connect to
the net and then connect to one of the Dalnet servers. A list of servers
comes preloaded in mIRC and I don't think you would need to change that to
find Dalnet.

Before you connect you should configure mIRC with a nickname. Most people
on IRC use some kind of name different from their logon ID. You can set up
a nickname in mIRC to be whatever you want, although some of the more
popular ones might already be taken by other users. You won't know that
until you connect though. No problem changing it to something else.

Once you establish a connection into Dalnet, you need to join the
"#oldsmobile" channel. It *won't* be there after you install but you can
go into your channels folder and add it. Once you do, you can join the
#oldsmobile channel and hopefully find the others who are there. Chatting
with mIRC is pretty simple. You just type what you want at the bottom of
the screen. You can get fancy with advanced commands but you don't need
to. It can be fun depending on the group you join; IRC can also be pretty
nasty if you get in over your head. Stick with us for a while. :)


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:09:45 -0400
Subject: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

I was wondering, how would I swap cams with the lifters still in the block.

Josh
65 Jetstar 88 Convertible

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:58:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheets

Cecil asked where he can find the build sheet on his 91 Calais W-41.
Look between the foam rubber cusion and the metal pan of the front
seats.  Also check under the back seat.  I used to do upholstery repair
for the local B-O-P dealer and have found a ton (ok maybe a few ounces,
but certainly a lot)of build sheets in the late model GM cars.  Any I
found were in the seat to the point that you have to disassemble the
seat to get them.  They are usualy hog ringed to the foam.

I hope this helps,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Dan Miller" <Dsm137@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:50:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Seats

Hi Dan!!,
  I also have a 67 cutlass convertible. Please let me know about some of the
other parts available. I am looking for wheel covers or SS1 wheels, chrome
items, cigarrette lighter, and various other parts. You can e-mail me
privately at dsm137@gti.net  I would be very apreciative for all info you can
give me.

                                                   Thanks,
				      Dan.

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of Dan Bennett
Sent: 	Tuesday, February 18, 1997 12:28 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Seats

Olds455cut@aol.com wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> If you can not use those 67 buckets and would like to sell them, let me
know.
>  My 67 convertible has buckets from a later Pontiac, I think.  I would even
> be interested inb what you paid for them.  This way I might be a little
> better armed at Carlise.  Thanks
>
> Jerry
>
> 67 Cutlass Supreme convertible 455/TH400
> 83 Cutlass Calais T-Tops 455/Th400

Jerry, I dont have them yet, but I know where they are.  The vinyl is
bad but the seat foam, chrome, and rails are excellent.  The Rear seat
is good to (with new vinyl that is).  This particular boneyard is really
reasonable, I will call for a price and write back.  In fact, this
particular '67 is really complete and has all the dash chrome, door
hardware, sheet metal that a '67 Cutlass owner would need.  I'll get
back to you on the prices.
- --
Daniel Bennett
Academic Advisor, Graduate Programs
Computer Science and Engineering
Arizona State University
dbennett@asu.edu
For more info visit our Webpage
http://www.eas.asu.edu/~csedept

------------------------------

From: PidgLanger@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:30:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 88' Rear Ends

On 2/18 Kevin Wong wrote..

>The B-car chassis was essentially the same from '77-'96.  Some full-size
>cars in the Eighties came with 7.5" ring gears despite having the larger
>brakes and 5" wheel bolt pattern.  This is true on most '82-'90 Cadillacs.
>My '83 Delta 88 has a 7.5" rear end, but uses the regular brakes and has
>the smaller 4.75" bolt pattern.  I've seen an '81 Olds 98 with a 7.5"
>rear end, but with HD brakes.  On the other hand, my Uncle's '88 Caprice
>has an 8.5" rear end, with the regular non-HD brakes.  9C1 Caprices
>(police cars) all have the 8.5" rear end; the only reason my Uncle's has
>the larger ring gear was because this car has the F41 suspension.
>
>Kevin Wong


Kevin are you sure they didn't change in 1991 when the body styles changed??

The reason I ask is I have a 1989 Caprice Police car and have been trying to
find out if I can swap a rear disc differential out of a 94+ ImpalaSS with
now success.  Do you or anybody else know if this is possible???

Cecil Smalley
PidgLanger@aol.com

------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:47:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Full Size Anti Spin

Tony,

Thanks for the clarification, had heard that the Jetstar 88 had Cutlass Drive
Train just din't belive it.  Sorry for being so thick though.  Are you saying
that all that I would have to do is get a drum to drum setup and bolt it in?

Thanks for the help.

Josh
1965 Jetstrat 88 Convertible
joshstrub@mail.att.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:46:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

You can't.

- ----------
From: 	joshstrub[SMTP:joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com]
Sent: 	February 19, 1997 7:09 AM
To: 	olds455cut@aol.com; oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

I was wondering, how would I swap cams with the lifters still in the block.

Josh
65 Jetstar 88 Convertible

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:55:24 -0400
Subject: Olds list archives (fwd)

Can someone provide me with some clarity on what to tell this person?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:41:09 -0400
From: Peter A Gaydos <gaydos@battelle.org>
To: ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Olds list archives

     Greg:

     I do not wish to subscribe to the Olds list because my only email
     account is at work.  However, someone told me about the Olds list
     archives site and I have enjoyed reading past questions and answers at
     my own pace.  I forget who maintains the archives list ("corncob" is
     in the email address), but since about 2 weeks ago I haven't been able
     to access the archives "The requested URL .... was not found on this
     server."  Do you know what's up with that?  Can you please forward my
     message to the appropriate person?

     Thanks,

     Pete Gaydos
     "gaydos@battelle.org"

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:16:20 -0400
Subject: Pronouncing 442

Ed (escape442@aol.com) wrote:

> If you want to propagate ignorance and say "Four-Forty-Two", that
> is your prerogative.
*****
Cool.  Thanks.

> Perhaps, you would like to explain how the 4 speed transmission
> translates to forty?
*****
Miles per hour, at the shift from second to third?

> I am one of those few people who believe in trying to master the
> English Language and speak it as well as it should be.
*****
Keep practicing and I'm sure you'll make progress.  By the way,
should "language" have been capitalized in that sentance?

          ---
 ------- | | | - Tom Stoner -----------------------
|        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ---    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
 --------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:18:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

At 07:09 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I was wondering, how would I swap cams with the lifters still in the block.

Well, assuming that you really wanted to do something like this, I suppose
you could unbolt the rockers, take out the pushrods, and pull the lifters up
in their bores enough to clear the cam journals. Once you are at that point,
however, you're only an inch away from pulling the lifter out of the bore
anyway. Besides, it'd be much less than fun if one of the lifters decided to
take a dive into the oil pan when you had the cam out.

Even assuming that you could do it, you wouldn't want to; the lifters
develop a wear pattern with the individual lobe of a camshaft, and will
cause excessive wear on a new cam's lobe.

Just spring the extra $35 for a new set of lifters (and $20 more for the
lifter extractor tool, if yours are stuck in the block good and *that's* the
reason you want to leave them in there).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:31:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

Gawd, y'all,

GIVE IT A REST!!!!!
I, and I'm sure other list members, could, at this point, care a lot less
how you pronounce 442!  If y'all want to continue this nonsense, I say
more power to you, but would you PLEASE do it privately!

Thank You,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu,

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:34:53 -0400
Subject: RE: transmission question

Thanks for all the info on the TH375 y'all.  From what I've seen, it
sounds like its somewhere in between a 350 and a 400, but has the 400's
internals!  Mine definitely does not have a lock-up torque converter
though, once I hit highway speed, I'm pretty sure my rev's just keep going
up the faster I go, but I don't have a tach, so I couldn't say "for sure".

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:00:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Full Size Anti Spin

>Tony,
>
>Thanks for the clarification, had heard that the Jetstar 88 had Cutlass Drive
>Train just din't belive it.  Sorry for being so thick though.  Are you saying
>that all that I would have to do is get a drum to drum setup and bolt it in?
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Josh
>1965 Jetstrat 88 Convertible
>joshstrub@mail.att.net


Josh --

The Jetstar 88 rear end shares the same width as the other full size 88's.
It is wider than a Cutlass drum to drum set up.  You have to put a
Cutlass/Lemans/Skylark carrier assembly into your Jetstar axle housing.  It
should be much easier to find a posi carrier out of a 442 or GTO or
something like that than to find a Jetstar 88 with anti-spin.

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-spd
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:37:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Exhaust System

At 11:31 AM 2/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Steve Wieczorek wrote:
>>
>>         Does anybody have experience with the 3 chamber Flowmaster
>>         mufflers?
>>
>>         How would 2&1/2 in. Flowmasters compare to 2&1/4 in. Walkers?
>>
>>                 *  For performance?
>>
>>                 *  For sound?
>>
>>         I have a '70 Cutlass 350 rebuilt to about 300 hp, 3:23 gears and
>>         a 3200 stall convertor.
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>
>>         steve
>>         '70 Cutlass conv.
>>         '83 98 4-dr.
>> Stevew@atsmail.lucent.com
>> 703-271-7380
>
>Steve, I got a hold of my first flowmaster almost 4 years ago, on
>Ponti*c Lemons (LeMans) w/ a 350. Now, I admit that some of Borla's
>stuff is probably a bit better, but truly I wouldn't run any other
>muffler. They have a distinct sound that you can't mistake for anything
>else and they make good power. I had a friend that was beat by a
>comparable setup, only my friend was running open pipes and the guy that
>beat him was running full-length exhaust with 3" flows. I run 2 2.5" 3
>chamber flows on my '70 Cutlass and it really sounds nice behind an Olds
>smallblock.
>
>Stephen Hoover
>Dallas, Texas (No we were not hit by an Asteroid)
>'70 Cutlass "S"
>
>
Steve,
     I have 2 1/4" Walkers on my '87 Cutlass and they sound pretty good. I
don't know about the performance differences between Flowmaster or Walker.
I'm happy with mine though.

Andy Geeting
'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible
'78 Caprice wagon
'36 Plymouth coupe

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:40:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Spline #

Brad wrote:

>What is the number of splines on an Olds '70 12 bolt rear end?

Depends on the ratio.  My '70 3.23 12 bolt posi has 28 splines (I have
it apart right now so I'll double check on this number).  I think 3.42
or numerically higher ratios were considered "heavy duty" and had the
"big" car (54 & up series) (31 splines?)axle shafts in them.  I
postulate this based on a picture in Roger Huntington's "American
Supercar" book and on factory literature that says 3.42 and higher axles
had special heavy duty axle shafts.  My '70 shop manual shows two
different differentials used for that year, one for A-bodies and one for
B/C bodies.  All of this assumes you have a bearing retainer plate style
of axle, not a c-clip retention style.

>When someone refers to a 9" rear end, what is 9"?

That one has been answered

>Does anyone make an aftermarket posi/limited slip/anti-spin unit for an
>Olds '70 12 bolt?

Check out offerings from Auburn in Summit's catalog.  Alot of what is or
is not available depends on the ratio (and thus carrier size) of your
axle.  For the cost, you're better off finding a posi axle in the ratio
you want at a salvage yard.

>I have heard an Olds 12 bolt is not really 12 bolts, but 10.  How is
>this?
The number of bolts refers to the ring gear/carrier attachment bolts.
In c-clip rears, this apparently is identical to the number of bolts
retaining the rear axle cover.  I too have heard that Olds (bearing
retainer style) axles have 12 bolts on the cover but only 10 on the ring
gear (I've never counted mine because it has never really concerned me).
 The 12-bolt ring gear is bigger/stronger than a 10 bolt one.  However,
Olds put these "12/10 bolt" axles behind their most powerful 1970
engines (the shock load of 500 lbs.ft of torque going through a 4 speed
is pretty severe treatment) and warrantied them.  FWIW, I have never
broken an axle, nor heard of any of my many GM-owning friends breaking
one.  In fact, one friend of mine has a rather stout 454 CID Chevy in
his '79 Z28 with a Muncie 4 speed and the stock 3.73 1979 10 bolt Camaro
axle.  He runs super-gooey M&H Racemasters and has never had a problem.

Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> I purchased two of these from my Oldsmobile dealer on 7/8/92.  Sorry, they
> have both been installed.  My parts invoice simply describes this as a
> "cover".  Part # 382636 (group # 3602?).  List at the time was $6.85.
382636 > is the part # listed in the '72 assembly manual as a "cap - N10
only".  N10 > was the dual exhaust code.    My parts people hate it when I
know the part > #s!  I will check with my parts people on Wednesday and see if
it is still > available.  Will report the results Wed. evening.  But don't be
afraid to > call your favorite dealer on your own today to get one.  These
were still > listed in the GM parts and accessories schedule as of 10-1-93.
List at that > time was $9.14.  This part is used by Chevrolet, Oldsmobile and
GMC Truck.

I called the dealer today, gave them the #, and the guy said "That must
be an Oldsmobile part". So far, so good. He looked it up and reported
that it was no longer listed in Canada but still showed up as a good
number in the US. He would have to actually place an order to see if it
was still available, and told me the price was $16-$17. I passed, but it
would be interesting to know if the part is still available south of the
border.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:24:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Results from Myclassiccar.com

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>

>The '56 Olds lost... :(

>Got about 46% of the vote, the '55 Ch*vy got the majority. In numbers, we
>were 25 or 30 short. At least we tried...

Speaking of voting, the new Muscle Car Review came and it had the readers
top 10 picks.  Suprisingly the '69 Hurst Olds made it and a 1970 442 W-30
was number 2.  The 1970 Chevelle was number one.

Chevy over Olds.  Hmmm.  I'm starting to see a trend here... :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-speed
see the archives at http:www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:41:58 -0400
Subject: Lightning Rod Shifter

Does anyone know what a good price for one of these are?  I have a friend
looking to put one of these into an 83 Cutlass.  How does it work?

Josh
65 Jetstar 88 Convertible(455/400 w/3X2)

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:44:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Spline #

You wrote:
What is the number of splines on an Olds '70 12 bolt rear end?

Depends on the ratio.  My '70 3.23 12 bolt posi has 28 splines (I have
it apart right now so I'll double check on this number).  I think 3.42
or numerically higher ratios were considered "heavy duty" and had the
"big" car (54 & up series) (31 splines?)axle shafts in them.

>>No. When I broke an axle shaft in my '70 3.42 Anti-Spin 12 bolt Olds rear,
I used one from a '70 3.23 open rear to replace it !!!!!!!!!

<snip> factory literature that says 3.42 and higher axles
had special heavy duty axle shafts.

>>Maybe in the earlier years ?????

John Pajak     "DR. OLDS"
Lexington Park, MD
Pajak_John%PAX1@MR.NAWCAD.NAVY.MIL

65 Delta 88
66 Toronado
69 Cutlass S
70 Cutlass S W31
70 442 W30 convert (That's four-four-two)
72 442 W30 convert
72 Delta 88 convert
+ others

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:03:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

At 08:09 AM 2/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I was wondering, how would I swap cams with the lifters still in the block.
>
>Josh
>65 Jetstar 88 Convertible
>
>
It might be possible...  Remove the rocker covers, un-bolt the rocker arm
supports, remove rocker arms, supports, bolts and push rods.  With a thin
hook hold the lifters up, actually you will probably need 16 thin hooks.
Then change out the cam shaft.

If the lifters are left unsupported they can fall into the shaft alley, and
would probably prove to be very difficult to push back into their supports.

I expect that it is still easier to remove the intake and then remove the
lifters.  You will still need to remove the push rods, and all the other
parts in the valve train.

All in all, an interesting question that is probably possible, but very
difficult.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:16:33 -0400
Subject: Disc Brake Conversion Costs

I've missed several weeks but have been lurking the last few days.  The
messages on disk brake conversions prompted me to tickle the keys.

Cost:  I bought two complete systems, one for a '70, the other a 71-2, at the
OCA Nats in Atlanta.  Each, complete setup cost $125.  Plan on another $2-300
dollars if new rotors, master cylinder, calipers, pads, bearings, seals are
planned.  I would assume you need these things so plan on that total.  I
tried using the sorry rotors on my first conversion, it didn't work,  Plan on
new ones, they work a bunch better than rusty originals or older ones turned
too thin.  FYI the nominal thickness is 1 inch with a discard limit of .960
inch.  Is it _very_ doubtful that a 25+ year set of rotors will meet that
spec.  Of course, you could be lucky but don't count on it.

You can purchase a complete new system from Stainless Steel Brakes for ~$700.
 They claim that everything is _new_, not rebuilt.  That's interesting in
that items such as GM spindles are no longer available.  I wonder what they
are using?

A member of the Olds Club of FL purchased this setup.  He had never installed
or converted a brake system before and had some problems which, IMO, were
part of the learning process.  In any case, such an (expensive) conversion is
not correct or stock, if that matters to you.

A recent post seemed to indicate that taking all the items off the donor car
are not necessary because they should be replaced.  Take note that
new/rebuilt factory proportioning/metering valves are _not_ available from
any source I can find.  You can use an add-on valve from Summit, et al., but
again, it ain't "correct".  I would take everything off the car because there
are other little glitches such as the bracket which holds the flex line to
the frame is different drum vs. disc.

Pardon the shouting but GET A FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL and read it before
searching out, buying and installing such a system.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:16:37 -0400
Subject: 9" F*rd rears

<<Not all the 9" Fords are gone from the Junque Yardes, they're still fairly
plentiful.  Look under full size pickups too.>>

They surely are plentiful having been used for many years in many cars.

The tech editor of one of the major mags recently answered a question from a
reader who asked whether he should use a 12 bolt "C" or the 9".  His response
was very interesting.

He stated that the 9" rear is significantly _weaker_ than the  12 bolt.  The
9" housings are welded sheet metal, not a large casting like the 12 bolt.
 Just look at pictures of naked 9" housings in many of the ads being run by
the folks that adapt and sell them.  They look weak.  Also, note the
strengthened housings and even built from scratch housings now available.
 They wouldn't be making them if there wasn't a need/market.

His final words were that the 12 bolt "C" is stronger overall, has a load of
parts availability and, when equipped with a "C" clip eliminator package, is
much better.

The advantage of the 9" is that you can swap gears very quickly since you can
have multiple setups.  No need to set up a new gear set every time.

Actually, you can swap gears in a Salisbury rear (which include all the GM
and other rears with a rear cover) almost as quickly if you keep the gear
sets and shims married.  Pull the axels, pull the diff unit, pull the pinion,
install new pinion already with the proper shimon the rear bearing, install
the ring gear/diff unit with the perviously determined side shims, install
axels, etc. and haul it back to the start line.
I've seen it done much less than 30 minutes.

Anyway, the 9" is popular.  That doesn't make it the best. I mean, look at
C*evy.  Popular, but it ain't an Olds. :)

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:11:18 -0400
Subject: Latest Car & Driver

I'm letting my subscription to this run out for any number of reasons,
but the latest (March) issue arrived today and it had a couple of
interesting things. They previewed the Olds Intrigue and gave it a
positive report. One of the interesting things they mention is that while
it will initially have the GM 3800 V-6, in a year or so it'll receive a
3.5 litre DOHC V-6 derived from the Northstar V-8 and therefore,
presumably, from the Aurora V-8. They also describe the current 3.4 DOHC
V-6 (the "Twin Dual Cam") as "unsuccessful" without describing why. I
haven't heard anything bad about this engine so I find that curious.

They also report on the similar Buick Regal which comes with the
supercharged 3800. Sounds interesting.

Finally, I noted with interest in an article on GM's EV-1 electric car
that GM was exempted from "laws requiring automakers to produce and stock
spare parts for 15 years". Is there such a law? If so, why is it so hard
to find certain parts for cars like the later H/Os, or even the
last-generation rear-drive full-sizers? Just curious...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:09:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

In a message dated 97-02-19 11:29:04 EST, you write:

>> I am one of those few people who believe in trying to master the
>> English Language and speak it as well as it should be.
>*****
>Keep practicing and I'm sure you'll make progress.  By the way,
>should "language" have been capitalized in that sentance?
>
>          ---
> ------- | | | - Tom Stoner ----------

Tom, Thank you for bringing that to my attention.  Your inquiry caused me to
look it up to be sure, I was wrong.  I am now one step closer to my goal.  I
was wrong and have learned something, now will you be big enough to do the
same?  Aren't you embarrassed to say "Four Forty Two"?  How can you expect
people to take you seriously, if you are wrong on something so elemental?
  BTW, this is the correct spelling of sentence. ~( : 3 )  Ed
   Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:20:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

In a message dated 97-02-19 11:33:51 EST, you write:

>Gawd, y'all,
>
>GIVE IT A REST!!!!!
>I, and I'm sure other list members, could, at this point, care a lot less
>how you pronounce 442!  If y'all want to continue this nonsense, I say
>more power to you, but would you PLEASE do it privately!
>
>Thank You,
>Clayton Pierce,
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu,

Sorry to bore you Clayton, but it's a basic question of right or wrong.  We
have enough problems with other car people not understanding our "culture",
we certainly don't need confusion in our own ranks.  If you can't properly
enunciate the title of your car, how can you be taken seriously on larger
topics?    Ed   Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:47:09 -0400
Subject: Re: 88' Rear Ends

> Kevin are you sure they didn't change in 1991 when the body styles changed??
>
> The reason I ask is I have a 1989 Caprice Police car and have been trying to
> find out if I can swap a rear disc differential out of a 94+ ImpalaSS with
> now success.  Do you or anybody else know if this is possible???

One of the things that changed on '91 and up rear axles was that the 5"
wheel bolt pattern was used for all cars, even on those with 9" drums.
AFAIK, the 8.5" ring and pinion is identical to older GM units.  In 1993
when the rear wheel openings were altered on the C*price, there was an
increase in rear wheel track.  The '94-'96 Impala rear track is wider than
comparable 9C1 units.  Your '89 has open wheel wells and should
accommodate a slightly wider track easily (I think the difference is about
2 inches).  In fact, I've seen Ch*v sedans with wagon rear ends
transplanted into them!  Are you planning to swap in the whole rear axle
assembly to convert to disc brakes?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:09:32 -0400
Subject: Grilles

I painted my grilles yesterday, and boy, do they look sharp!  When I first
started driving the car about seven or eight years ago, and I was young(er)
and (more) ignorant, they looked like crap, so I painted them black, not
knowing or really caring what they looked like originally.  Well, Greg B.
posted a Krylon paint color (Dull Aluminum) he used for his car with, I'm
assuming, good results.  I found some, bought it, repainted the grilles, and
they really look great!  Even though they're cracked and broken in a few
places (well, OK, ~lots~ of places), they look much better.  Made a big
difference in the look of the car.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Timothy Carl Hietpas <thietpas@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:20:29 -0400
Subject: Squeak! Squeak! Squeak!....

	Does anyone have a cure to stop the air conditioning compressor
from continually squeaking when the engine is running?  The belt is new
and I cleaned the pulleys and the belt is not overtightened.  Is there a
lube techinique to quiet down the clutch assembly on the compressor. I
don't want to remove the belt because then the clutch would eventually rust
and lock up.  The squeak is very noticable especially at idle when the
defroster is on.  You can here the clutch assembly kicking in and out to keep
it from rusting tight during the winter.

	Tim

thietpas@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu
1987 Olds 442

------------------------------

From: Gregory M Zimmerman <gzimmerm@runet.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:38:05 -0400
Subject: Re: looking for a console

>
> I'm looking for someone who has a decent console and shifter for a 70
> cutlass.
> Also need bumpers, Ram hood, posi unit.
>
> thanks
>
I have a black center console with floor shifter (for TH-350) from my '71
Cutlass.  I replaced it with a Hurst dual-gate.  I'll be happy to sell
you the standard floor shifter one.  email me at gzimmerm@runet.edu

- -greg

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:42:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

>I
>was wrong and have learned something, now will you be big enough to do the
>same?  Aren't you embarrassed to say "Four Forty Two"?  How can you expect
>people to take you seriously, if you are wrong on something so elemental?

Sheesh, will you boys settle down?  Who cares how you say it (besides Ed)?

Just because someone may not be able to spell
superkalafragilisticexpialadocious (is that right Ed?) doesn't mean they
don't know anything about Mary Poppins.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: olivier thibault <olivier@9bit.qc.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:33:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

Daniel A. Gulino wrote:
>
> >ANNA HEBROWSKA wrote:
> >>
> >> I have a 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 with 70,000 miles in a
> >>  very good condition. Any idea what it may be worth?
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mixo@gnn.com
>
> I've got an Old Cars Price Guide that's about a year old (but I can't
> believe the price for something like this changes very drastically very
> quickly).  You don't say if it's a two-door or a four-door or whether it's
> a Royale or a "plain" Delta 88, but for either trim line, the highest value
> is for the 4-door hardtop, as opposed to the 4-door sedan or 2-door sedan.
> For a car in #3 condition, values range from about $1400 to about $1700,
> depending on body style and Royale or not.  If yours is in #4 condition,
> the value drops to the $700 to $800 range.  #3 condition means that, from
> about 20 feet away, the car looks brand new.  Any closer and you can see
> the scratches, dings, etc. that tell you that it's not.  #4 means that it
> looks used (faded paint, a bit of rust here and there, oxidized bumpers).
> I'm going to guess that your car is between #3 and #4 condition, and
> predict that it's worth around $1000 to $1200.  Of course, it ALL really
> depends on what someone is willing to pay you for it!

And if its in better condition than #3 ?

Olivier

Delta 88 Royale 1976 4 doors,Hard top

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:15:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Spline #

 I have been told that the differential in my car is from a '70 or later
Cutlass type.  It's a 12 bolt limited slip Olds unit with 4.33:1 gears and it
has the the 28 spline axles.
Go figure.

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:22:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

 Get this -- how many people have been approached by a non olds fan and been
told by the stranger about a buddy in highschool that had an olds with a four
forty two engine in it could whip just any  other car at the time???

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:20:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Cam Shaft Removal/Instalation

Here's an idea, but i really don't think it's worth the effort. How bout
using the spring loaded type clothes pins to wedge against the inside of the
lifter head and then raising all of the lifters slightly then running a piece
of piano wire through the spring holes in the clothes pins.  They use a
similar method on Bug engines.

------------------------------

From: Matt Breitbach <mbreitba@iastate.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:35:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 07:22 PM 19-02-97 -0400, you wrote:
> Get this -- how many people have been approached by a non olds fan and been
>told by the stranger about a buddy in highschool that had an olds with a four
>forty two engine in it could whip just any  other car at the time???
>
>
yeah, thats always nice..."hey buddy, whats that got in it, a 442?"  "no, a
400,455,307,(depending on your application)"  "then why do they call it a
442"  "its complicated, you ch*vy lovers wouldn't understand"

just my two bits worth

matt breitbach

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:18:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 07:22 PM 2/19/97 -0400, J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
> Get this -- how many people have been approached by a non olds fan and been
>told by the stranger about a buddy in highschool that had an olds with a four
>forty two engine in it could whip just any  other car at the time???

That was probably the same stranger I encountered last summer at a car show.
This guy I met claimed that his 70 Chevelle had "factory nitrous" ....uhhhh
ok whatever:) I bet it is REALLY rare, say 1 of 1?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28.........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:27:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Lightning Rod Shifter

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, joshstrub wrote:

> Does anyone know what a good price for one of these are?  I have a friend
> looking to put one of these into an 83 Cutlass.  How does it work?
>
> Josh
> 65 Jetstar 88 Convertible(455/400 w/3X2)
>
>
	Hurst still makes these for aftermarket use, although I don't
think they have a combo for Cutlass consoles (How ironic).  I
lightly looked into
this a couple of months ago. I didn't get a price quote but the guy at the
speed shop thought they would go for about $500.  I'm not sure how
accurate he was on that though.  They're probably hard to find in junk
yards, because in '83 only 3000 H/O's were made, probably about the same
for '84.
	As to how they work, I only have a rough idea. Perhaps someone who
owns an H/o with them could explain it better.  But left shifter has
 PArk, Neutral, Overdrive?, drive. Middle shifter shifts from 2nd to 3rd,
and far right shifts from 1st to 2nd.
	Supposedly they also were prone to breaking alot.  That doesn't
bother me, they still look cool and I hope to get one for my Cutlass,
eventually.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
wreilly@acad.bryant.edu
http://acad.bryant.edu/~wreilly/bill.htm

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:30:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Lightning Rod Shifter

Oh yeah I forgot, the left shifter also has reverse.

Bill

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:04:01 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

At 06:33 PM 2/19/97 -0400, you wrote:

>And if its in better condition than #3 ?

My guess is it ain't gonna be!  :)  Unless it looks like the day it came
out of the showroom, including pristine condition under the hood and
underneath, it's #3.  Have you done anything to the car to bring it back to
like-new condition?  It's hard to imagine a car with 70,000 miles of wear
and tear on it will be better than #3, but I could be wrong.  The main
source of my skepticism is that it is quite common for owners to
overestimate the condition of their car.

Anyway, in the same price guide I quoted from before, a 1976 Delta 88
Royale 4-door hardtop in #2 condition is listed at $2800.  For #1 condition
(and I KNOW your car ain't #1 <g>), it's value is listed as $4000.

Here's the Old Cars Price Guide description of a #1 car:

"Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every
area, or perfect original with components operating as new.  A 95-plus
point show car that is not driven.

In national show judging, a car in No. 1 condition is likely to win top
honors in its class.  In a sense, it has ceased to be an automobile and has
become an object of art.  It is transported to shows in an enclosed
trailer, and, when not being shown, it is stored in a climate-controlled
facility.  It is not driven.  There are very few No. 1 cars."

There you have it.  For all you guys and gals out there driving around in
those objects of art, congratulations!



For comparison's sake, here is the Price Guide's description of a #2:

"Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent
original.  Also, an extremely well-maintained original showing very minimal
wear.  Except for the very closest inspection, a No. 2 vehicle may appear
as a #1.  The No. 2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows,
except when squared off against a No. 1 in its own class.  It may also be
driven 800-1000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure."


And the description of #3:

"Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear.  Also, a
good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable inside and out.
Plus, combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components,
or a partially restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or
valuable NOS parts.

This is a "20-footer."  That is, from 20 feet away, it may look perfect.
But as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a
little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing.  Looking inside,
we might detect some wear on the driver's seat, foot pedals, and carpeting.
 The chrome trim, while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp,
mirror-like reflective quality it had when new.  All systems and equipment
on the car are in good working order.  In general, most of the vehicles
seen at car shows are #3."



Like I said, I bet yours is #3.


Dan



************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:25:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap

In a message dated 97-02-19 13:23:19 EST, you write:

> I called the dealer today, gave them the #, and the guy said "That must
>  be an Oldsmobile part". So far, so good. He looked it up and reported
>  that it was no longer listed in Canada but still showed up as a good
>  number in the US. He would have to actually place an order to see if it
>  was still available, and told me the price was $16-$17. I passed, but it
>  would be interesting to know if the part is still available south of the
>  border.
>

Well, that's interesting.  You're dealer tells you it's still available and
mine says not.  Maybe I need to ask another parts man.  There may have been a
part # change somewhere along the line.  I'll do some more research.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: #Oldsmobile--on Dal.net

The defacto standard on the Mac is called IRCLE.  Goto

http://www.dal.net/index.html

for more info on DALNET and

http://www.ballistic.com/~paisley/macircle.html

for more info on the Macintosh end of the whole thing.

- -Dan

> You need to have a IRC client for your PC. One good one is called mIRC,
> and you can download it free from a few places. It has versions for both
> 3.1 and Win95. There may also be a Mac version. If you do a web search

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:24:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap (was re: WTB 350 Exhaust Manifold
&Question)

In a message dated 97-02-18 22:10:31 EST, you write:

> Part # 382636 (group # 3602?).  List at the time was $6.85.  382636
>  is the part # listed in the '72 assembly manual as a "cap - N10 only".

Bad news guys,  Mr. Partsman told me that this part number is discontinued
according to GMSPO.  Dealers may be able to find one in another dealer's
inventory though.

Paul

------------------------------

From: konsta kauranen <bunny@sci.fi>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:37:50 -0400
Subject: OLDSMOBILE CUTTLAS SALON 1974.

- ------------14083D121F440
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by id4.sci.fi id DAA25689


THE OLDMOBILE THAT I HAVE HERE IN FINLAND IS THE ONLY ONE OF THIS YEAR
AND MODEL.HOW COMMON IS IT IN USA.
I HAVE SEEN A COUPLE OF THEM IN OLD MOVIES AND IN ONE NEW MOVIE "THE
ACCIDENTAL HERO"WITH GENA DAVIS,CHEVY CHASE AND DUSTIN HOFFMAN.
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FRONT SEATBELTS.THE PASSANGER SIDE HAS BROKEN
FROM "LOCK" AND I HAVENT FOUND A MATCHING ONE YET.THEY SEEM TO BEE
DIFFERENT THAN IN OTHER GM CARS MADE IN THE "70`s.
IF ANYBODY CAN HELP ME,PLEASE DO.

- --
MZ=90


- ------------14083D121F440
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><BODY>

<DT><BR>
THE OLDMOBILE THAT I HAVE HERE IN FINLAND IS THE ONLY ONE OF THIS YEAR
AND MODEL.HOW COMMON IS IT IN USA.</DT>

<DT>I HAVE SEEN A COUPLE OF THEM IN OLD MOVIES AND IN ONE NEW MOVIE &quot=
;THE
ACCIDENTAL HERO&quot;WITH GENA DAVIS,CHEVY CHASE AND DUSTIN HOFFMAN.</DT>

<DT>I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FRONT SEATBELTS.THE PASSANGER SIDE HAS BROK=
EN
FROM &quot;LOCK&quot; AND I HAVENT FOUND A MATCHING ONE YET.THEY SEEM TO
BEE DIFFERENT THAN IN OTHER GM CARS MADE IN THE &quot;70`s.</DT>

<DT>IF ANYBODY CAN HELP ME,PLEASE DO.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>--&nbsp;<BR>
MZ=90<BR>
&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------------14083D121F440--

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:22:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 9" F*rd rears

Bob Handren wrote:

The tech editor of one of the major mags recently answered a question from a
reader who asked whether he should use a 12 bolt "C" or the 9"...

He stated that the 9" rear is significantly _weaker_ than the  12 bolt.  The
9" housings are welded sheet metal, not a large casting like the 12 bolt...


     Sorry Bob, I disagree.  I can't say that I've ever seen an axle
     housing failure.  The primary loads in any rear end are between the
     pinion and ring gears.  In both cases (9" and Salisbury housings, the
     portion of the assembly which takes the load is a substantial casting.
     The 9" goes even further with the availability of the nodular carrier.
     The Salisbury rear only uses the casting to the minimum extent
     possible; it is necessarily larger than the Ford pumpkin due to the
     need to attach the _sheet metal_ axle tubes and rear cover.

     The only other area of high load in a rear axle housing is the
     suspension attach points, which for both units is typically on the
     outboard ends of the sheet metal axle tubes (yes, I'm aware that the
     GM coil spring upper a-arms attach to the center casting, but this is
     primarily due to manufacturing simplicity, not any strength
     requirement).

     The real difference in strength between the two designs is in the gear
     set.  All else being equal (that is, gear cross section, material
     properties, axle shaft diameter, etc), the 9" diameter gear will carry
     a higher load than the 8 7/8" diameter gear in the 12 bolt; the
     increased lever arm of the larger diameter gear will reduce loads on
     the gear teeth and bearings.

     Note that this does not account for specific manufacturing weaknesses
     in the respective Ford and Chevy axles, such as number and shape of
     splines, number of differential pinions, and bearing diameters or
     materials.  I don't know the design specifics of the two units to
     fully understand the weak links.  I can guarantee, however, that the
     actual housing is a long way down the list of weak points in either
     design.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:03:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 06:22 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Get this -- how many people have been approached by a non olds fan and been
>told by the stranger about a buddy in highschool that had an olds with a four
>forty two engine in it could whip just any  other car at the time???

Yeah, people have sworn that the motor in my '69 Toro was a 442ci motor. I
want to destroke it just to prove something....

I've also heard people speak highly of the "Wildcat 445 cubic inch" engine
they had in their mid-60's Buick. FWIW, the "445" designation referred to
the torque output, while the engine was actually a 425ci motor.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: block sizes revisited - the mini series

O.K. I am an Idiot. I even qualify for the final runoff for definitive title
"the Idiot".

In the message I sent (below) two days ago, I wrote 396 inplace of the actual
number, which was actually 394. If 394 is a proper Olds ci value, would the
intake manifold be interchangeable?

I know Edelbrock offers the same part for a variety of engine displaces, but
had not thought about it being the same part.
Thanks again!
Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88

In a message dated 97-02-17 19:47:17 EST, I wrote:
<< Sorry to interrupt ongoing convo's, but I have a quick question for the
olds Guru's.

 Afew days back (OK I just read it), one of you pointed out that all Olds
small blocks were made from the same size block stock (if you'll forgive me
for describing it that way) and that the widths of all Olds smallblock intake
planes (and I presume necessarily the lengths) were the same. Does this mean
that it is possible to transplant a 4bbl intake for a 396 where there had
been a 2bbl intake on a 330?
 I understand the difference between mounts for 2 and 4 bbl carbs- that's
actually the reason for the question. (or is the 396 actually a big block,
or, heaven forfend, a non-Oldsmobile part? (gasp)). >>

------------------------------

From: daveleck@atlcom.net (David Leck)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:12:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual-exhaust exhaust cap

Year One does, indeed, sell a block-off assembly.  It is a flange with a
short piece of blocked off pipe on it.  Not exactly a beauty, but it works!

The part number is JF86.  I'm not sure about the price.

Hope this helps,
Dave

daveleck@atlcom.net

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

In a message dated 97-02-19 17:38:21 EST, you write:

>Sheesh, will you boys settle down?  Who cares how you say it (besides Ed)?
>
>Just because someone may not be able to spell
>superkalafragilisticexpialadocious (is that right Ed?) doesn't mean they
>don't know anything about Mary Poppins.
>
>--
>Dave Paulison

Dave,  I have sat here and read about guys arguing over the most trivial Olds
details.  In the restoration of these cars, some guys go to phenomenal
extremes of correctness.  Is it too much to ask that the name of the car be
enunciated correctly?  Most employers complain about the lack of a
communication skills in job candidates.  They figure that someone's execution
of the language is a representation of them.  I would not know anything about
that movie, I think it's cornball at best.  Ed    Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:25:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Exhaust System

Andy Geeting wrote:
>
> At 11:31 AM 2/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Steve Wieczorek wrote:
> >>
> >>         Does anybody have experience with the 3 chamber Flowmaster
> >>         mufflers?
> >>
> >>         How would 2&1/2 in. Flowmasters compare to 2&1/4 in. Walkers?
> >>
> >>                 *  For performance?
> >>
> >>                 *  For sound?
> >>
> >>         I have a '70 Cutlass 350 rebuilt to about 300 hp, 3:23 gears and
> >>         a 3200 stall convertor.
> >>
> >>         Thanks,
> >>
> >>         steve
> >>         '70 Cutlass conv.
> >>         '83 98 4-dr.
> >> Stevew@atsmail.lucent.com
> >> 703-271-7380
> >
> >Steve, I got a hold of my first flowmaster almost 4 years ago, on
> >Ponti*c Lemons (LeMans) w/ a 350. Now, I admit that some of Borla's
> >stuff is probably a bit better, but truly I wouldn't run any other
> >muffler. They have a distinct sound that you can't mistake for anything
> >else and they make good power. I had a friend that was beat by a
> >comparable setup, only my friend was running open pipes and the guy that
> >beat him was running full-length exhaust with 3" flows. I run 2 2.5" 3
> >chamber flows on my '70 Cutlass and it really sounds nice behind an Olds
> >smallblock.
> >
> >Stephen Hoover
> >Dallas, Texas (No we were not hit by an Asteroid)
> >'70 Cutlass "S"
> >
> >
> Steve,
>      I have 2 1/4" Walkers on my '87 Cutlass and they sound pretty good. I
> don't know about the performance differences between Flowmaster or Walker.
> I'm happy with mine though.
>
> Andy Geeting
> '87 Cutlass Supreme
> '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
> '74 Delta 88 convertible
> '78 Caprice wagon
> '36 Plymouth coupe

Guys,
I have a single Edelbrock muffler with two tailpipes (like the
Camaro...I'm sure J. Labay knows what I'm talking about).  Anyway, the
Edelbrock P/N 5519 sounds excellent!  Quiet at idle, yet, at speed,  it
truly sounds like a 403 or a 455 under the hood, rather than a smogged
307.
- --
  /     ______________________________________     \
 /-----\                                      /-----\
 |     |             Jason Adcock             |     |
 |  |  |          adcockjk@erols.com          |  |  |
 |  |  | http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason  |  |  |
 | /|\ |       1984 Cutlass Calais RWD        | /|\ |
 |  |  |--------------------------------------|  |  |
 |     |------------/            \------------|     |
 \-----/____________|____________|____________\-----/
/                                                    \
\____________________________________________________/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:08:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Exhaust System

At 01:25 AM 2/20/97 -0400, Jason Adcock wrote:

>Guys,
>I have a single Edelbrock muffler with two tailpipes (like the
>Camaro...I'm sure J. Labay knows what I'm talking about).  Anyway, the
>Edelbrock P/N 5519 sounds excellent!  Quiet at idle, yet, at speed,  it
>truly sounds like a 403 or a 455 under the hood, rather than a smogged
>307.

I know what your are talking about, they are nice mufflers. Any muffler made
for a 82-92 F-body will fit an 87-88 G-body that uses the same crossflow
design. I have personally never heard the Edelbrock, but have only heard
positive things about it.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28.........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: sguiller@stumail.engr.udayton.edu
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:06:24 -0400
Subject: Olds Starfire curiosities

Ok guys, I'm a new member here.  I joined because I've been thinking
about building up a '65 Olds Stafire.  Yeah, I'm sure you think its a
real oddball, but I think it would make a good runner and a hell of a
cruiser.  Does anybody out there have experience with these "bucket
seat luxury - performance" cars? Before I start on the project,
though , I've got a few questions:
Mine has the (TH400?) console shift auto trans.  I know the four
speed was available, but does anyone know where I can find the
complete setup to bolt it in? Will a Cutless or Four-Four-Two, etc., setup
work?  Did these utilize the Muncie M21's or
M22 's, or some other trans?
How can I tell what ratio rear I have -- is there a particular code
stamped on the carrier for ratio, etc.?
Anybody out there have a rust free dog - house or a nice, complete
dash (mine is missing the entire assembly!)
I know this seems like a hopeless project, but its really not that
bad (plus I can buy it for virtually nothing! A big enticement)
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated-- I'm new to
the world of Olds.
                                                            Thanks,
                                                Shaun R. Guillermin
Shaun R. Guillermin

------------------------------

From: FERRERO@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:31:16 -0400
Subject: 350 engines, tell me...

what year would you say olds produced the best 350 engine, and what
makes it so?

I am asking because I noticed that in 1972, the 350 olds had a 7/16 head bolt
on it.  what's the difference?

------------------------------

From: "Steven Bettis" <bettiss@empnet.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:52:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Nitrous on 84 Hurst...

Tom,
Why not go with the cheater system. You can always jet it down to powershot
levels, but have the flexibility to seriously step up if need or if you get
a different combination that can handle more power. Besides, the last time
I looked, the cheater plate had better distribution. Watch that fuel
pressure and have fun!
- ----------
> From: Tom Millard <OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Nitrous on 84 Hurst...
> Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 7:04 PM
>
> I just received NOS's latest full line catalog today.  I am planning on
> putting either a Powershot or Super Powershot on my 403 in my 79
> Cutlass.
>
> Under the Super Powershot page, they list a few examples, including the
> following:
> "1984 Olds Hurst, 307 CID - Before 14.9 @ 94.4, After 12.8 @ 104.4"
>
> It doesn't say what horsepower jets they used (either 100,125, or 150),
> but that's pretty good for a small shot of juice!!!
>
> Thought some of you guys might be interested in this...
> Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net (FORMERLY OLDSPWR@aol.com)
> 79 Cutlass - Street/Strip/Show
> 86 442 - Summer Driver
> 79 Cutlass - Winter Bomb
> "Faithful to the Rocket Division"
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #524
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