
oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 22 March 1997      Volume 01 : Number 572

Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Desperately need A/C stuff for 67 Olds Cutlass
16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?
Good body work in Wash. D.C./VA area?
Last nights pic posting
Re: 442 W-30 Pics
Re: Tilt wheel, or not 
Re: 16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?
Re: 442 W-30 Pics
A-frame question
Re: Build Sheet ?????
Re: ADMIN: Follow the Guidelines Please!
Re: found '61 starfire
Re: Build Sheet ?????
Steering wheel swaps 
My 442  W-30 Homepage
TEST
The Automotive Air Conditioning Information Server
Re: Build Sheet ?????
[Fwd: Olds 455 w/ HEI - Dist. "Ticking" - Advice?]
RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Re: going to manual from TH-350
Re: Valve cover gasket sealing 
Re: BUMPER STICKERS 
Re: Need help finding an antenna
Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint) 
Re:Olds enthusiast booklet + Final notice 
Re: disappointing performance
Re: Parting into factory color. 
RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Olds build sheet
Olds removing itself from GM
Re: Build Sheet ????? 
Re: Dual exhaust
67 Cutlass for sale 
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #567 
Re: (2) Parting into factory color 
Re: (2) Parting into factory color
1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: [Fwd: Olds 455 w/ HEI - Dist. "Ticking" - Advice?]
1987 Oldsmobile GT
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Re: Need help finding an antenna
Re: IRC Tonight (TUE) and Tomorrow (Wen) at 7pm Central! 
Re: My 442  W-30 Homepage
found 76 442
found 76 442
Re: 442 W-30 Pics 
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 
Re: found 76 442
Re: 442 W-30 Pics 
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List) 
Re: 69 H/O Rear Code 
New Altenate Email Address 
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 
Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint) 
Re:  found 76 442
Re: Dual exhaust
Re: found 76 442
Re: Parting into factory color.
Re: found '61 starfire
Re: Breaking timing belt 
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:22:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Matthew Butler wrote:
> 
> I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
> thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
> 928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
> decide to floor it, the car doesn't downshift to 1st. 

<snip>

Never knew Olds made a 928S in '86.... gee, the things you learn here! 
;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "JOHN L. BERENYI" <berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:44:29 -0400
Subject: Desperately need A/C stuff for 67 Olds Cutlass

Before the hot weather gets here in Dallas I need a compressor, bracket,
associated bolts, and condenser.  If anyone has this stuff for sale
PLEASE get with me.  Last year I almost turned into bacon! If I can't
get this stuff I'll be forced to sell the car.


John Berenyi (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

------------------------------

From: Gregory M Zimmerman <gzimmerm@runet.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:45:43 -0400
Subject: 16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?

My '71 Cutlass has H-O racings sway bars, springs, poly bushings, etc. 
and I'm setting it up so it can corner like a modern sports car.  I have 
almost zero body roll, but the 14x7 rally wheels with 225-70-14 Eagle 
ST's are not up to the challange.

Anyone find any 16 or 17" wheels that look good on an old car?  I HATE 
Centerline's billet wheels that have tiny holes and covers for the lug 
nuts.  

I love American Racing's Torq-Thrust D's.  They only come in 15's, but I 
saw something in Car Craft that said there is a all polished version in 
16x8".  Anyone have any experience in using large rims?

I mostly just want to find what size tires will fit, width and 
backspacing of the wheels, etc.

I'm hoping to run 255-50-16 at all four corners. 

Thanks,
Greg

The local tire shops and mail order houses offer absolutly no help.  NTW 
says only 205-75-14 will fit my car (always beleive what the computer 
says?  Ha Ha)

The Tire Rack (Ad in Car and Driver) says no wheels they carry have the 
correct offset for older cars.

I was even wondering if the new Camero SS 17's would fit?

------------------------------

From: Gregory M Zimmerman <gzimmerm@runet.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:48:47 -0400
Subject: Good body work in Wash. D.C./VA area?

I want to get my '71 Olds painted this summer.  Any recommendation for a 
good but cheap paint job to get me by for 5 or 6 years until I can get my 
killer $3000 blue with pearl racing stripes done?

I'm looking for something in the $1000 range.  I will remove most of all 
the trim, door handles, emblems, etc.

thanks,

Greg

(I'm tired of looking at my primer grey W-30 hood that I installed)

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:55:20 -0400
Subject: Last nights pic posting

Hey group,  (to those of you I had caused a problem):

I apologize for the problems I caused you by trying to post to the list the
pictures of the 442.  I was unaware of the problems I would cause.  I
intended to post a message regarding the car for sale, and that I had some
photos of it as an attachment.  I warned that they were huge (in size), and
I figured that if this meant a problem for you, you would disregard the
message.  I didn't know what effects it would have on the digest form.

Again, sorry for the problem

T Cleeton
tcleeton@mcmsys.com

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:10:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-30 Pics

Heck Yeah!  Send 'em all mailto:old442@erols.com

Thanks,
Kurt 
71 442

Tracey Cleeton wrote:
> 
> Hey if anyone is interested, I have several pics of the 1970 442 W-30
> Convert. I am trying to sell.  The pics are of the Danbury Mint Co. doing
> field dimensions.
> 
> If you are interested, let me know, and I will private email you them back
> 
> Thanks
> 
> T Cleeton
> tcleeton@mcmsys.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:18:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Tilt wheel, or not 

>Can a tilt wheel sterring column from a '67 cutlass fit a '72?  Will the 
>steering wheel alone fit on my '72?  thanks for any,all help.

Wellll... the '67 has the switch on the dash. The '72 has the switch
on the column. If you put the '67 column in the '72 car, where are
you planning to put the switch?  :-)

The steering wheel alone might be a possibility if the shaft diameter
and number of splines are the same.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Travis Adams <cashmore@imt.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:42:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 16 or 17" wheels for '71 Cutlass?

Gregory M Zimmerman wrote:
> 
> My '71 Cutlass has H-O racings sway bars, springs, poly bushings, etc.
> and I'm setting it up so it can corner like a modern sports car.  I have
> almost zero body roll, but the 14x7 rally wheels with 225-70-14 Eagle
> ST's are not up to the challange.
> 
> Anyone find any 16 or 17" wheels that look good on an old car?  I HATE
> Centerline's billet wheels that have tiny holes and covers for the lug
> nuts.
> 
> I love American Racing's Torq-Thrust D's.  They only come in 15's, but I
> saw something in Car Craft that said there is a all polished version in
> 16x8".  Anyone have any experience in using large rims?
> 
> I mostly just want to find what size tires will fit, width and
> backspacing of the wheels, etc.
> 
> I'm hoping to run 255-50-16 at all four corners.
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg
> 
> The local tire shops and mail order houses offer absolutly no help.  NTW
> says only 205-75-14 will fit my car (always beleive what the computer
> says?  Ha Ha)
> 
> The Tire Rack (Ad in Car and Driver) says no wheels they carry have the
> correct offset for older cars.
> 
> I was even wondering if the new Camero SS 17's would fit?
I can't help with your problem really.  But I was wondering how much of
a difference the H-O sway bars made.  I have already finished the front
suspension with all new poly components.  I have successfully put
255/60R15's all the way around on my 65 442.  I still have plenty of
room out back but she is as tight as can be up front.

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:08:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-30 Pics

SORRY!  That was supposed to go private.

> Heck Yeah!  Send 'em all mailto:old442@erols.com
> 
> Thanks,
> Kurt
> 71 442

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:58:15 -0400
Subject: A-frame question

I'm suprised no one replied to my question.  I guess I stumped the whole
list.  Does this happen often?

- -- 
John "Shoe-Man" Schumacher                                       
North Texas Olds Club #254	64 Dynamic 88         
Dallas, Texas			69 442                     
OCA #021151			74 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:15:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheet ?????

Jason Adcock wrote:

> >The sticker on your trunk will have all of the options on your car,
> >so, if that's all you need, I'd just use that. I'm sure there is >somebody on the list that has a chassis manual for that
> >year, and can decode your options list for you, just make a request.
> 
> Is there a book available for this? Or an online site?  Thanks.
> 
Jason,
  My '86 service manual has these codes, but my '82 doesn't.  Unsure if
they had them in there for the '84.  Also there was a thread on the list
a week or so ago about the GM RPO book that has these codes...I will
forward you a copy to private e-mail

- ---Matt
'86 442

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:24:33 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Follow the Guidelines Please!

Hey Greg, 

GET WELL!!!!!!!

WE MISSED YOU WHILE YOU WERE "OUT"  :-)

If you want to take a health trip down south, I'd be happy to put you up
;-)  

Actually, the weather (re: my message earlier) has been absolutely
beautiful here today.  I've got the same sunshine as 'Bama Bill, but the
mountains make the temperature a WHOLE lot more temperate!


On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> 
> Geez, I get sick for a few days and all hell breaks loose here! 
> <sneeze, hack, cough, wheeze, sniffle>
> 

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:34:00 -0400
Subject: Re: found '61 starfire

Well, considering there is a '62 Starfire (non-convert.) here with little
rust, no engine or tranny for $300, I'd say that the price might not be
TOO out of line for a convertible with the full drive line.  My first
though is, though, like Greg's, that it sounds like a parts car.  I think
that it would make a good parts car, but if you are planning on fixing
something to drive, I'd probably pass on that one!  If however, you find
something like the Starfire I mentioned, without too much rust and a
fixable interior (its even got the A/C dash!) w/out motor tranny cheap,
THEN I might buy the car...

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, joshstrub wrote:

> I've found a 1961 Starfire convertible with the full drive line.  Not running 
> because sitting more than ten years.  The top is shot and all crome has been 
> removed.  Both quarters have a lot of rust and so do the front fenders.  Frame
> is solid.  The guy wants $700 for it, is this reasonable.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.feith.com (Peter L. House)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:31:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheet ?????

> 
> Jason Adcock wrote:
> 
> > >The sticker on your trunk will have all of the options on your car,
> > >so, if that's all you need, I'd just use that. I'm sure there is >somebody on the list that has a chassis manual for that
> > >year, and can decode your options list for you, just make a request.
> > 
> > Is there a book available for this? Or an online site?  Thanks.
> > 
> Jason,
>   My '86 service manual has these codes, but my '82 doesn't.  Unsure if
> they had them in there for the '84.  Also there was a thread on the list
> a week or so ago about the GM RPO book that has these codes...I will
> forward you a copy to private e-mail
> 
> ---Matt
> '86 442
> 
> 
Are the codes for the 1987 the same for the 1986. I have the 1986
GM service manual but not the 1987..
phouse@feith.com

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:37:41 -0400
Subject: Steering wheel swaps 

>Can a tilt wheel sterring column from a '67 cutlass fit a '72?  Will the 
>steering wheel alone fit on my '72?  thanks for any,all help.
          
Wellll... the '67 has the switch on the dash. The '72 has the switch 
on the column. If you put the '67 column in the '72 car, where are 
you planning to put the switch?  :-)
          
The steering wheel alone might be a possibility if the shaft diameter 
and number of splines are the same.

          Nope, sorry.  Due to the incorporation of the column-mounted 
          ignition lock, the diameter of the steering column itself is 
          different.  The actual shaft and splines should be the same, 
          however, so you could physically install the wheel on the 
          later column, it will just look funky.  I've actually done 
          the opposite and installed a 70-72 4-spoke wheel on a 68 
          (small-diameter) column.  Again, the hub of the wheel was 
          larger in diameter than the steering column, but in this 
          case the hub covered the turn signal switch, so it didn't 
          look quite so bad.  Since that time, I've found a neat 
          trick:  the hub for the 68 and older 3-spoke "wood" steering 
          wheel has the same six-bolt pattern as the later 4-spoke 
          wheel.  It is a simple matter to use the early hub with the 
          later wheel and bolt a 4-spoke wheel onto an earlier column.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:53:29 -0400
Subject: My 442  W-30 Homepage

To everyone who wanted my 442 W-30 pics, I can't possibly send them to
everyone who asked, but I have set them up on my home page so you can see
them.

Let me know what you think of them, and if anyone is interested.

the address is: http://www.mcmsys.com/~tcleeton/

Thanks

T Cleeton
tcleeton@mcmsys.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:57:52 -0400
Subject: TEST

Is this thing on?

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:06:46 -0400
Subject: The Automotive Air Conditioning Information Server

http://www.aircondition.com/

Hey folks,
  I thought some of you might find this site interesting....as summer is
coming and all.  It has info and links to sites about r-12
replacements...

- ---Matt
'86 442

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:12:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheet ?????

Peter L. House wrote:
<snip>
> Are the codes for the 1987 the same for the 1986. I have the 1986
> GM service manual but not the 1987..
> phouse@feith.com
 Should be pretty close, but maybe not excat.  Paging Paul Hartlieb,
Paging Paul Hartlieb,  Assistance needed in Aisle 4 (42)!

- ---Matt

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:49:20 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Olds 455 w/ HEI - Dist. "Ticking" - Advice?]

David Allen wrote:
> 
> Subj line says it all.
> 
> A rebuilt 455 with an HEI system developed a pronounced ticking soung
> -- like a sewing machine.
> 
> One fellow told me the early distribs had inferior heat treatment on
> shafts and only solution was replacement of the dist.
> 
> Another suggested it was centrifigal weights or shaft bushings that
> could be reasonably easily fixed -- obviously my preferred course.
> 
> Does anyone have any sage advice on diagnosis and repair.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dave Allen
> Falls Church, VA
> allent@mnsinc.com
fond this in Rec.autos.tech. Thought the list could come to his rescue. 
Drop him a note via private e-mail as he isn't on the list (yet...)

- ---Matt
'86 442

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:58:28 -0400
Subject: RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

Its hard to sell a cloned GT0 as an original, Pontiac Historical Society offers the original build sheets for most all the cars from 60 to 75.  It costs
$50, and takes two weeks to get it.  Just about everybody selling a real GTO 
has the PHS sheet to show to prospective buyers.  Its hard for me to believe
Oldsmobile doesnt have their build sheets tucked away somewhere.

Mike


____________________________________________________________________________

Dave Wyatt said:

>You don't see G.T.O. guys
>faking Judges all the time, although some do.

Boy, I don't know, the guys with '65-67 LeMans' used to like to convert to
GTO's !!

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee/FL



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:10:16 -0400
Subject: Re: going to manual from TH-350

True, these trannys are very similar, actually Richmond Gear bought out 
Doug Nash.

I have always toyed with the idea of installing one of the Doug 
Nash/Richmond gear 5 speeds in my Olds....Can they handle a 12 sec 455 if 
there not powershifted???? Anybody running one of these in there car??

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, david wyatt wrote:

> The posting about installing a 6 speed ZF tranny in an Olds is good
> info.  But isn't the 6 speed Richmond similar to the Doug Nash 5 speed?
> As I remember the 5 speed was more or less a bolt in.  It used the same
> trans. to bell housing bolt pattern as a T-10.  It seems that these will
> bolt to the original bell housing as well.  The only big problems with
> the 5 speed was overall length and not being able to use your console
> without major modification.  I may be all wet on this so feel free to
> correct me. (as if you guys need encouragement)
> 
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:19:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve cover gasket sealing 

Hi Guys,
             My 2 cents worth on valve cover sealing. I use fel-pro or mr.
gasket cork valve cover gaskets(the mr. gasket ones are a little thicker
which I prefer). I put hem on dry or stick them to the valve cover with 3m
spray glue. I haver had a set on my 67 442 since 89 and no leaks. The key is
to make sure the mating surfaces are clean and dry.
                              Steve
1967 442 
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:22:55 -0400
Subject: Re: BUMPER STICKERS 

Incidentally, I thought you might be interested in a n item the Wiz posted on
february eigth;

<< 
 Bumper Stickers found on various 4-42s.
 
         "Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine."
 
         "I love cats... they taste just like chicken."
 
         "Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."
 
         "Cover me. I'm changing lanes."
 
         "As long as there are tests there will be prayer in public schools."
 
         "Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot."
 
         "Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let him sleep."
 
         "I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather... Not screaming and
         yelling like the passengers in his car..."
 
         "I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a
vegetarian."
 
         "Don't blame me - I'm from Uranus."
 
         "Your kid may be an honor student but YOU'RE still an IDIOT!"
 
         "It's as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you."
 
         "Smile, it's the second best thing you can do with your lips."
 
         "Friends don't let friends drive Naked."
 
         "Wink, I'll do the rest!"
 
         "I took an IQ test and the results were negative."
 
         "Where there's a will, I want to be in it!"
 
         "Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check?"
 
         "If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"
 
         "Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students!"
 
         "It's lonely at the top but you eat better."
 
         "Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear."
 
         "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."
 
         "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be
happy."
 
         "Consciousness: That annoying time between naps."
 
         "I souport publik edekasion."
 
         "We are Microsoft. Resistance is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated."
 
         "Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home."
 
         "3 kinds of people: Those who can count & those who can't."
 
         "Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?"
 
         "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"
 
         "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find
         a rock."
 
         "2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2."
 
         "I like you, but I wouldn't want to see you working with sub-atomic
         particles."
 
         "The gene pool could use a little chlorine."
 
         "Forget about World Peace... Visualize Using Your Turn Signal!"
 
 
  >>
Almost LOL too hard to send this!

Karl Aune 
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Rene Descartes on home repair; "I think, therefore, I will use duct tape"

(or something)

------------------------------

From: "Teresa" <tstump@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:28:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Need help finding an antenna

Ok guys (and gals)...if anyone can help me with this I know you can.
I have only written a couple of times.  I have a 63 Dynamic 88.
We can't find an antenna that will fit it anywhere.  Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Teresa Stump
tstump@pacbell.net

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:39:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint) 

Hi,
     I am currently restoring a 70 442 that is not a numbers matching car. It
has a 69 455, the turbo 400 I have no idea what it is out of the rear end is
out of a 71 442 W-30. The body was kinda rough replaced the righ quarter with
a year one replacement which I will never do again,patched the left quarter
and both inner wheelhouses,replace both doors.both front fenders,replaced
decklid. The floor was real solid and if the car had not been in the family
for the last 10 years I would not have got it. I am adding the W-30 stuff
because I always wanted one and if I had a real one I probably would not want
to drive it and i want to drive this car. If I was to sell it it would be
advertised as to what it is. I no of a lot of 442 W-30's that aren't even
442's. I say as long as someone don't try to sell it as a real W-30 it is ok
to add the package. I couldn't see the harm in converting this car because
the original drive train is missing and the body was so rough. Just my
opinion.














                                                                        Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:39:20 -0400
Subject: Re:Olds enthusiast booklet + Final notice 

Oooops! I owe everybody an apology. I tried to send the bumper stickers
message to someone who unsubscribed, but I forgot to change the addressee.
Well now those of you who didn't save it for posterity have an opportunity to
do so.

In other news, I finally recieved the Oldsmobile enthusiast booklet, and it
is killer!

Well, what it really is, is a compedium of various companies addresses and
telephone numbers who provide services that would be of value to people such
as are on this mailing list. It is grouped in categories such as reproduction
parts, carburetors, convertible tops and service, and sheet metal, among
others.

Which allows me to veer to my next subject. Under sheetmetal, the booklet
provides the address and telephone number of Hall's Olds-Salvage (abject
misery). As I only read my E-mail every other day or so, consider this a
final notice. I will be spending all day on March 29th at Soldier, KS. If you
have a need, and are willing to pay me  for cost and shipping, then Email me
ASAP with specifics. I will be going in my 4dr hardtop so the smaller the
part, the better (i.e. I can only cram so many panels in the back seat!).
KarlAunan@aol.com. In most cases I will try to Email you back to confirm.

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

Goin' to Soldier, Kansas. Soldier, Kansas here I come. There's one metric
s***load
         of Oldsmobiles there and I'm gonna...pick thru 'em

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:44:21 -0400
Subject: Re: disappointing performance

>Well guys I was humiliated pretty bad today.

Travis,

Just one thing I want to remind you of...

How many years since that Eclipse had been crushed in the year 2029? (The 
same age as your '65)

Will anybody remember what a Eclipse was?

Will anybody care?

I do know that I will still remember 1965 442's in the year 2029, and 
Lord willing, will have one of those bad boys in my garage!

Final thought, Oldsmobiles are more than just going fast, they last and 
enjoy a undieing brand loyalty. Let's only hope that Oldsmobile gets a 
clue as to what will bring that excitement back to their newer cars. 
Maybe Olds need to think about removing itself from GM instead of GM 
rumouring of letting go of Oldsmobile?


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:01:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Parting into factory color. 

In a message dated 97-03-21 09:37:57 EST, you write:

<< 
 I have a friend in CA that says there is a person out there that
 reproduces the body tags with whatever you want on it.  Apparently there
 are a few groups out there that are ~really~ concerned about the tags -
 that their tag match the car, not that the car match the tag ;)
 
 Kurt 
 71 442
 
  >>
I suppose that the extreme form of this would be reproducing VIN plates to
create matching numbers vehicles (along with some creative engraving on
various parts).
I hope I never see a matching numbers Omega with 442 options!

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@Direct.CA>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:14:03 -0400
Subject: RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

At 07:58 PM 3/21/97 -0400, Mike wrote:
>
>Its hard to sell a cloned GT0 as an original, Pontiac Historical Society
offers the original build sheets for most all the cars from 60 to 75.  It
costs
>$50, and takes two weeks to get it.  Just about everybody selling a real GTO 
>has the PHS sheet to show to prospective buyers.  Its hard for me to believe
>Oldsmobile doesnt have their build sheets tucked away somewhere.

As far as I have heard, Pontiac Historical Society has no affiliation with
the Pontiac Division of GM.  Years ago a fellow purchased or got hold of
all of the build sheets for most of the Pontiacs from 60-75 directly from
Pontiac and it is his company that now sells them.  Do not quote me on this
but I am 99% sure.  I would think that Oldsmobile (USA) tossed them out
since no one wanted them at that time as would Pontiac have done if no one
wanted them also.  Again, in Canada its an entirely different story.


Nick DiGiovanni
ndigiova@Direct.CA
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:45:21 -0400
Subject: Olds build sheet

Does anyone know if Olds has their build sheets available to customers, or
if some other organization has them?

              Jim Townsend

              '90 Calais

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:54:21 -0400
Subject: Olds removing itself from GM

I think this is not a bad idea since there would no longer be any
"corporate" parts, and any Olds car would truly be an Olds car.
On the other hand, there would no longer be any "corporate" money either.

      Jim Townsend

      '90 Calais

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:56:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Build Sheet ????? 

In a message dated 97-03-21 18:25:18 EST, you write:

> Should be pretty close, but maybe not excat.  Paging Paul Hartlieb,
>  Paging Paul Hartlieb,  Assistance needed in Aisle 4 (42)!
>  

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Huh?  What?  Sorry, dozed off.  It was strange.  I was
dreaming about Buicks with floor shifters...

Anyway, Yes, GM option codes from '86 and '87 should be the same.  In fact,
the option codes GM uses today are the same ones Olds started using back in
'63.  C60 has meant air conditioning for over 30 years now.  Of course, there
have been additions and deletions to the list over the years.

Paul

------------------------------

From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:02:53 -0400 
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

>The
>$15-$25 mufflers you mentioned are probably just "glass packs".  

No, they're not.  They're mufflers.  I ~do not~ want glasspacks.  
I think I might go with the Dynomax Super Turbo's...

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:46:17 -0400
Subject: 67 Cutlass for sale 

I recieved a letter today from a gentelmen selling his 89 year old mothers 67
Cutlass.
  Its a 2 door Cutlass gold w/black vinyl top 88,890 miles always garaged and
maintianed by local Olds dealer. Has minor rust and a dented trunk lid. Car
is loacated in Middletown Rhode Island. Asking $3000.00. Contact Michael
Tannert at 1-617-259-0194.  If you contact him but want someone to look at it
for you I will gladly contact him and check it out for you.

E-mail me privatly for further info   Everett Horton   ANTIQOLDS@aol.com

------------------------------

From: MPN1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:26:05 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #567 

Where is the newsgroup that you assemble this from?

MPN1@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:39:20 -0400
Subject: Re: (2) Parting into factory color 

At 09:53 AM 3/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>The Wiz wrote:
>>That's a judging curiosity that can only be answered by the rules under=
 which
>>the judging takes place.  Many clubs allow accessories to be added or
>>deleted, as long as they WERE available for the car when it was new.
>
>Does this mean someone who adds the W30 option to a 442 is allowed to
>show it as a W30?  After all, the W30 is not a separate series, but is
>rather an option package consisiting of various parts.  I think that the
>conversion, if it meets or exceeds factory standards, should be allowed.
> No one seems to complain if a W30 owner retrofits their car with a
>Ralley Pack, but heaven forbid if someone retrofits a 442 with W30
>parts.  What are the standards used in the big leagues?
>
>Scott  Mullen
>
>

There is a company in Michigan, that for a number of years made and marketed
a home made copy of the 1932 Chevrolet Roadster body.  I went to their plant
one day, and saw their work, and it was likely better than Chevrolets.  And
just to keep unknowing flamers quite: (Also this does NOT APPLY TO CADILLAC,
but does to the rest of the GM lines). After about 1928 Fisher discontiued
making ANY open bodies, so the car builders built their own; ie a 1932
Chevrolet Roadster has a Chevrolet body, not a Fisher.

This same company finished one of their bodies and placed it on a genuine
chassis, instead of making it a hot rod, the usual end for one.  It went to
the big AACA show at Hershey and won.

Is that out and out fakery?

I think I would have been a little critical about the judging, but then who
said how much is too much, and this I don't know, and I doubt will ever,
really be, answered.

There are three ways to replace a missing part on an old car restoration:

 1. Find a used one and restore it

 2. Find one N.O.S.

 3. Make one

Where does making one become fakery instead of ingenuous restoration.  I
don't know.

I believe that the old car club judging rules were mostly compiled in days
when the original manufacturers didn't make model changes, that were quite
so subtle, and valuable.  Hot rodding began with the 1932 Ford Roadster, but
old car restoration began with pioneer cars, where model varities were a
roadster or a touring car; not a W30 or W31 or some other, but all applied
to the same basic car.

I find it a difficult call.  Caveat emptor and all.

My 2=A2

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:44:05 -0400
Subject: Re: (2) Parting into factory color

R Mullen wrote:
> 
> The Wiz wrote:
> >That's a judging curiosity that can only be answered by the rules under which
> >the judging takes place.  Many clubs allow accessories to be added or
> >deleted, as long as they WERE available for the car when it was new.
> 
> Does this mean someone who adds the W30 option to a 442 is allowed to
> show it as a W30?  After all, the W30 is not a separate series, but is
> rather an option package consisiting of various parts.  I think that the
> conversion, if it meets or exceeds factory standards, should be allowed.
>  No one seems to complain if a W30 owner retrofits their car with a
> Ralley Pack, but heaven forbid if someone retrofits a 442 with W30
> parts.  What are the standards used in the big leagues?
> 
> Scott  Mullen

Scott,

This is probably done more often than we think.  As an option, it should
pass AACA scrutiny.  Supposedly the car should be as delivered to the
dealer; but then any option is allowed if it were available for that car
that year.

I presume that AACA is really dodging the problem of not being able to
decifer all data plates for all cars ever made that are 25 years of
age.  If there is a question, the owner is required to prove that his
car is correct.  That only requires a factory brochure or other factory
data.  It doesn't have to apply to that very car as in a build sheet. 
Build sheets are accepted though.

I would be curious to know what OCA does and for that matter, what do
the other clubs do?  OCA is in a position to verify Oldsmobiles.  AACA
must verify hundreds of car makes & that is probably impossible.  

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Matt Herrick" <mherrick@tir.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:49:55 -0400
Subject: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Hello,	
	I just wanted to drop a line to the group and ask if you've ever
heard of this car. It's an '87 Cutlass with a "GT" package.Supposedly
#32 of 400 made.I've never heard of it.I know the Salon,Brougham,Classic,
and 442. But no GT.Is this a rare model?

Thanks,
	Matt

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:54:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Olds 455 w/ HEI - Dist. "Ticking" - Advice?]

Had this problem several times. If none of the above, check if the ground
strap is in the coil. Ya I know you think its dumb, but I have seen it fool
many good mechanics.Its arcing out in side and it sounds just like the
wieghts are clicking against the side of the cap. Some new kits don't come
with this strap and many forget to putr it in.
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: "Matt Herrick" <mherrick@tir.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:54:13 -0400
Subject: 1987 Oldsmobile GT

Hello,
	I'm not sure if I sent this to the right address the first 
time, if so, I apologize for the extra mail...

	I just wanted to drop you a line and ask if you've ever
heard of this car. It's an '87 Cutlass with a "GT" package.Supposedly
#32 of 400 made.I've never heard of it.I know the Salon,Brougham,Classic,
and 442. But no GT.Is this a rare model?


Thanks,
	Matt

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:47:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

Matthew Butler wrote:
> 
> Howdy All!!!
> 
> I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
> thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
> 928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
> decide to floor it, the car doesn't downshift to 1st.  It just works itself up
> to speed in 2nd.  Which, as you can imagine, take a little longer than
> expected since the engine is below 2000rpm at 20 mph in 2nd gear.
> When I am on the highway, downshifting from (4 to 3) or (3 to 2) is no
> problem, but at the lower speeds the downshift from (2 to 1) hasn't ever
> happened.  How is this controlled on the 928?  Is it a mechanical linkage
> or vacume?  It seems at though there is some sort on mechanincal
> linkage that controls this.  I can feel the downshift points with the
> accelerator pedal.  As a matter or fact I feel the (2 to 1) downshift point,
> but it doesn't happen.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
> 
> Matt Butler

I don't want to sound any dumber than I appear to but, What the %$#% is
a 928s

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:08:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

I say as long as someone don't try to sell it as a real W-30 it is ok
> to add the package. I couldn't see the harm in converting this car because
> the original drive train is missing and the body was so rough. Just my
> opinion.

I agree with you up to a point. Caveat emptor goes a long ways in this
case. However honest a person is and up front about a car the question
remains "what happens to the car after it leaves your hands?". The next
owner may not be as honest. Documents will determin the real high price
cars in the future. There might be twice as many W-30s on the road as
there were built, but there are only a few documented cars. So I say if
you want to build a W-30 build one, have fun. 

Danny

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:55:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Need help finding an antenna

Teresa wrote:
> 
> Ok guys (and gals)...if anyone can help me with this I know you can.
> I have only written a couple of times.  I have a 63 Dynamic 88.
> We can't find an antenna that will fit it anywhere.  Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
> Teresa Stump
> tstump@pacbell.net

Teresa,

Those things are corperate.  You might try Buick or Pontiac parts
dealers for that general year group('60-70). I believe that they are
stainless masted things that have a black plastic screw on base.  It may
be that the mast also screws on to the mounting hardware or fits into
the mounting while that black plastic holds it on.  The
F85/Tempest/Special should also be that same in that era.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:10:37 -0400
Subject: Re: IRC Tonight (TUE) and Tomorrow (Wen) at 7pm Central! 

In a message dated 97-03-20 21:24:29 EST, you write:

<< Sorry, I couldn't make it last night.  The "attendance" has been very
 poor.  Would a different night/time be better for everyone?
 
 -Dan
 
 > I went there about 7:30 and no one was there ????? whats the deal was I
too
 > late?
 > Walter
  >>

Whatever you all do, do not give up on this. I wish to participate but will
be unable for perhaps as many as three more weeks.

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: My 442  W-30 Homepage

Tracey Cleeton wrote:
> 
> To everyone who wanted my 442 W-30 pics, I can't possibly send them to
> everyone who asked, but I have set them up on my home page so you can see
> them.
> 
> Let me know what you think of them, and if anyone is interested.
> 
> the address is: http://www.mcmsys.com/~tcleeton/
> 
> Thanks
> 
> T Cleeton
> tcleeton@mcmsys.com

That was an interesting set of pictures.  I love the car.  There are
probably very good reasons for selling such a lovely car, but it can't
be an easy thing to do.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:19:38 -0400
Subject: found 76 442

	I stumbled on to a 76 442 sittiing in a yard about 10 miles from here. The
owners dad lives where the car is and he is suposed to call me tomorow with
a price. The body is fairly straight with the usual K-mart rash and the
original paint ( kind of a burnt orange with big white 442 letters) is
faded from the Texas sun. One head was of the 350 was in the trunk the dad
said it had a broke ring on that side but whatever was wrong it will now
need a engine or at least boreing since the cylinders are rusted. The
interior seemed to all be there but the Texas sun has taken its toll on it
too.
	I will have a good 350 when I finish the 455 for our 66 and my wife does
interior work so I could get it running fairly inexpensively. What would
this car be worth running? It still wouldnt be a cream puff because I don't
do paint and body work. I looked in the Olds adds and the regirstry and
couldnt find any 76's. Is it brcause they didnt make a lot of them or
because no one likes them? I am trying to decide if I want this one or if I
should pass it up. What do Y'all think? 

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:22:53 -0400
Subject: found 76 442

 From: jones <jones@morgan.net>
 To: olds list <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
 Subject: found 76 442
 Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 11:19 PM
 
 	I stumbled on to a 76 442 sittiing in a yard about 10 miles from here.The
 owners dad lives where the car is and he is suposed to call me tomorow
with
 a price. The body is fairly straight with the usual K-mart rash and the
 original paint ( kind of a burnt orange with big white 442 letters) is
 faded from the Texas sun. One head was of the 350 was in the trunk the dad
 said it had a broke ring on that side but whatever was wrong it will now
 need a engine or at least boreing since the cylinders are rusted. The
 interior seemed to all be there but the Texas sun has taken its toll on it
 too.
 	I will have a good 350 when I finish the 455 for our 66 and my wife does
 interior work so I could get it running fairly inexpensively. What would
 this car be worth running? It still wouldnt be a cream puff because I
don't
 do paint and body work. I looked in the Olds adds and the regirstry and
 couldnt find any 76's. Is it brcause they didnt make a lot of them or
 because no one likes them? I am trying to decide if I want this one or if
I
 should pass it up. What do Y'all think? 
 Walter

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:05:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-30 Pics 

>Hey if anyone is interested, I have several pics of the 1970 442 W-30
>Convert. I am trying to sell.  The pics are of the Danbury Mint Co. doing
>field dimensions.

I'd love to have 'em. Send them along please. Shouldnt we have you in the
Owners Registry?

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:05:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 

At 10:47 PM 3/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Matthew Butler wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy All!!!
>> 
>> I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
>> thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
>> 928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
>> decide to floor it, the car doesn't downshift to 1st.  It just works
itself up
>> to speed in 2nd.  Which, as you can imagine, take a little longer than
>> expected since the engine is below 2000rpm at 20 mph in 2nd gear.
>> When I am on the highway, downshifting from (4 to 3) or (3 to 2) is no
>> problem, but at the lower speeds the downshift from (2 to 1) hasn't ever
>> happened.  How is this controlled on the 928?  Is it a mechanical linkage
>> or vacume?  It seems at though there is some sort on mechanincal
>> linkage that controls this.  I can feel the downshift points with the
>> accelerator pedal.  As a matter or fact I feel the (2 to 1) downshift point,
>> but it doesn't happen.
>> 
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
>> 
>> Matt Butler
>
>I don't want to sound any dumber than I appear to but, What the %$#% is
>a 928s


Hey All

        Isn't this an OLDSMOBILE E-mail site? Thought so last I checked.
>

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:10:01 -0400
Subject: Re: found 76 442

At 01:19 AM 3/22/97 -0400, jones wrote:

>	I will have a good 350 when I finish the 455 for our 66 and my wife does
>interior work so I could get it running fairly inexpensively. What would
>this car be worth running? It still wouldnt be a cream puff because I don't
>do paint and body work. I looked in the Olds adds and the regirstry and
>couldnt find any 76's. Is it brcause they didnt make a lot of them or
>because no one likes them? I am trying to decide if I want this one or if I
>should pass it up. What do Y'all think? 

Well they made 9,576 that year. It could be had with a Chevy v6, or Olds
260, 350 or 455. The 260 could be had with a 5-speed manual. Sounds like a
good project car. 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2, QLC, Mobil 1,
Fram HP4 oil filter, TFX cat-back, Firehawk SVX tires, blackouts (rear+t.s.)
80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346 made
75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293 made  

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:12:17 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-30 Pics 

>Hey if anyone is interested, I have several pics of the 1970 442 W-30
>Convert. I am trying to sell.  The pics are of the Danbury Mint Co. doing
>field dimensions.

"I'd love to have 'em. Send them along please. Shouldnt we have you in the
Owners Registry?"

Sorry about that Greg / guys. I didnt mean to send the above to the list.
Its getting late and I'm getting grogy.

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:16:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List) 

At 02:01 PM 3/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I am interested in parts. 1964 olds cutlass F-85 conv. I live in British
>Columbia, Canada. How would we arange payment and shipping? Contact me at;
>Scott
>kozhill@titanlink.com
>

Scott

        Anything you seee on the list let me know what you wnat be E-mail
and I'll get the shipping price for you to add to the cost of whatever you want.

My address is 

Jim Chermack
1132 Chatmoss Drive
Virginia Beach,VA 23464
(757) 474-0869

Thanks,

 Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:26:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Rear Code 

At 10:57 AM 3/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>James & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>
>>         What does the rear axle code SH signify. My 69 an 70 Service Manuals
>> show this to be a 3.42:1 Anti-Spin Axle avail in 3600-4400 series cars.
>
>> That's Cutlass all the way to a 442. Looks like he didn't shaft you
>> afterall. That was the std rear for the 69 H/O.
>
>When I had my car up on a platform, looking at the accident damage,
>I looked around for the blasted axle codes.  Couldn't find it anywhere.
>I guess they must have been worn away.  I dunno.
>
>Chris Sparks
>68 442


Chris

        Sometimes you almost have to be a magician to find them. I've seen
them upside down and on the front of the axle tube instead of them back
side. Take a small wire brush and some thinner and see if that helps.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:40:26 -0400
Subject: New Altenate Email Address 

Hi All

        Just wanted to let you know that you can Email me at either
chermac@exis.net OR chermac@rocketmail.com. Just thought it sounds better.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32 
72 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 03:00:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 

>I don't want to sound any dumber than I appear to but, What the %$#% is
>a 928s
>
That's easy, two 442s with 44 left over.

Anon. I.

P.S. If it looks like a Porsche, and it sounds like a Porsche, it likely is
a Porsche.  And don't forget the duck tape.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 03:10:08 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint) 

At 11:08 PM 3/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I say as long as someone don't try to sell it as a real W-30 it is ok
>> to add the package. I couldn't see the harm in converting this car=
 because
>> the original drive train is missing and the body was so rough. Just my
>> opinion.
>
>I agree with you up to a point. Caveat emptor goes a long ways in this
>case. However honest a person is and up front about a car the question
>remains "what happens to the car after it leaves your hands?". The next
>owner may not be as honest. Documents will determin the real high price
>cars in the future. There might be twice as many W-30s on the road as
>there were built, but there are only a few documented cars. So I say if
>you want to build a W-30 build one, have fun.=20
>
>Danny
>
>

After a rather random post on this thread earlier, I believe that it
constitutes fakery.  Also, just because you are never going to sell it,
doesn't mean that IT WILL be buried with you.

Also, when these cars pass thru a number of hands, statments of authenticity
become very blurred. =20

Another point that has been touched here a few times in the last couple of
months, about people that have had outright fakes for sale:

1. Occasionally the current owner THINKS he's got the 'rare bird' and not a
worked over common one, and they are offering it for sale as genuine,
without knowing.  They were cheated once, and just don't know.

2. Price is also a determing factor.  If a plain Jane '70 Cutlass is X
condition is worth $1K, and a W30 is worth $20K; and it being offered at $1K
its not fraud, even if it IS fakery.  If it is offered at $25k, then it
might very well be fraud, regardless of how you consider fakery!

3. A Plain Jane car that has had all the proper and necessary parts added is
worth more than the Plain Jane without, so it may even then be mute
considering just how bad the fraud or fakery is.

There is an old adage that applies, "what man has made, man can make again."
Even if it requires new firewall tags from California, a good bit of
scrounging for red fender liners, and a good engine with F heads.

Just another 1.5=A2

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:23:36 -0400
Subject: Re:  found 76 442

Walter,
I live in Texas, near Fort Worth, and I too am recently aware of a 76 442 for 
sale. I'm supposed to look at it Sunday. The owner says it has a factory 455 in 
it and it is his daily gas drinking driver.
If the car you're looking at doesn't develop, or you're not interested in it, 
Email me if you're interested in looking at this one.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

I'm sorry, he wants $800 for the car. That might be his starting point.

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:55:56 -0400 
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:02:53 -0400 dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
writes:
>>The
>>$15-$25 mufflers you mentioned are probably just "glass packs".  
>
>No, they're not.  They're mufflers.  I ~do not~ want glasspacks.  
>I think I might go with the Dynomax Super Turbo's...
>
DON'T use those cheap $15.00- $25.00 mufflers. Thwy work well, but suck
performance out of your car. I had to put something on my 72 a while back
due to a state vehicle inspection in Va. I couldn't afford Flowmasters
and Dynomax's weren't out quite yet, so I opted for the cheapies. I still
have good performance, but have noticed the difference when I put these
on.

Katana72                            It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile!!   
       Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 03:43:57 -0400
Subject: Re: found 76 442

jones wrote:
> 
>         I stumbled on to a 76 442 sittiing in a yard about 10 miles from here.

	<snip>
>         I will have a good 350 when I finish the 455 for our 66 and my wife does
> interior work so I could get it running fairly inexpensively. What would
> this car be worth running? It still wouldnt be a cream puff because I don't
> do paint and body work. I looked in the Olds adds and the regirstry and
> couldnt find any 76's. Is it brcause they didnt make a lot of them or
> because no one likes them? I am trying to decide if I want this one or if I
> should pass it up. What do Y'all think?

Jones,

I bought a relative of that car new in 1973.  It was a 455 & a very
dependable smooth driver.  I had to modify the engine to get any
performance or gas mileage, but when I got that done it became a very
satisfying car that would keep up w/most anything w/out being totally
embarassed.  That car was a joy to my family for 14 years.

They are a heavy car though & feel much of that.  The nimbleness of a
modern car just isn't there although the steering is responsive & the
brakes work well.  A crusier is probably the best description I would
give that type car.

The looks are rather good although dated.  Many people don't like that
waterfall grill & the rather large graphics.  Buick, Pontiac, &
Chevrolet had trouble keeping this body fresh by 1976.  They are not the
most popular cars nor were many made.

The 442 option (W-29) included special body stripes, heavy duty springs,
form ride shocks, larger sway bars, & 7" wheels.   A 260, 350, or 455 V8
was available, but none had any real power as built in 1976.

I would suspect that value is minimal.  $200 or $300 should be plenty
for a non running in "well used" condition.  If you have the space,
time, & money, I would consider it.  They do drive nicely.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 04:05:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Parting into factory color.

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
> 
> KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Just the other day I read here that a color other than original will incur
> > penalty in scoring for car shows. This is because the color won't match the
> > color code on the tag with the body specs, right.
> >
> > Well, what if the car is repainted in a color that was also available for
> > that year and model?
> >
> > Is the penalty the same?
> >
> > Just curious.
> 
> I am curious too.  How can these judges know what the original color
> should
> have been?  With today's paint, it might be hard to get the same color
> as they
> used in the 60's/70's.  You might come close but not exact.  
> > 
> Chris Sparks

Chris,

> 68 442 (Sitting and collecting dust until she gets fixed)

The "exact" color match is a call that the judge makes in consultation
w/the team captain.  The things that cause a deduction will be either
obvious such as flames or less obvious such as extra metallic, much
darker or lighter shades, unusual color combinations, very noticeabale
shinyness or dullness, colors out of era such as purples in the '70s or
matallics in the '30s.  Over restoration is not a deduction.  Perfect
body work or perfect paint receives any extra credit above someone's
"factory" grade work nor is anything deducted.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  All comments are concerning AACA national judging.  Other clubs
have their own rules.  Corvette is particularly definitive about what is
"correct" & what isn't.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 04:10:14 -0400
Subject: Re: found '61 starfire

joshstrub wrote:
> 
> I've found a 1961 Starfire convertible with the full drive line.  Not running
> because sitting more than ten years.  The top is shot and all crome has been
> removed.  Both quarters have a lot of rust and so do the front fenders.  Frame
> is solid.  The guy wants $700 for it, is this reasonable.
> 
> Josh

Josh,

I wouldn't buy it unless I had a parts car w/the missing parts or
expected to get one.  Those missing parts are very hard & very expensive
to come by.  Rust like you describe isn't easy to fix either.  This is
probably the parts car for another.

I would love to have one of these cars, but the expense is gigantic. 
There is a rule that is economically sound - buy the best car that you
can afford.  It is much cheaper in the long run.  Some cars are too
expensive if they are given to you.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:45:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Breaking timing belt 

In a message dated 97-03-21 12:33:43 EST, you write:

<< Wouldn't this sort of clearance give a super-low compression ratio?
 I guess I don't understand how there could be a set up that would allow
 the motor to survive such a belt failure.
 If the valves are open while the pistons are cranking up and down, how do
 you prevent them from banging into each other?  Deep valve reliefs in the
 pistons?  Could you elaborate on this?
 Thanx.
 
                  Jim Townsend
 
 On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Esko Ilola wrote:
 
 > <snip>
 > > driven by a timing BELT, not a double roller steel CHAIN.  I  was told
 > > that these belts are good for about 45,000-50,000 miles before they give
 > > out.  People thrash their turbo machines, unaware that their timing
belt<snip>
 > 
 > Some engines like those in Opel are designed to survive the belt
breakdown.
 > The engines have enough clearance in their cylinders to rotate even if
some
 > of the valves are constantly open. >>

This would just be a matter of having valve pockets in the piston's top
surface (most motorcycle pistons have these on them due to the high
lift/compression, etc.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:24:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 

In a message dated 3/22/97 6:11:22 AM, you wrote:

<<>> thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my
1986
>> 928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and>>

mmmm...928s....I think thats a super rare, one off, built by honest Jack
Watson......2 455's bolted together and then bored out an additional 28 C.I.
 Designed to eliminate all Mitsu Eclipses etc.....those of you who think your
Olds is  fast beware of this street prowler!  Look for this unit at the
Benneville salt flats with Craig Breedlove behind the wheel............

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto 

>
>>I don't want to sound any dumber than I appear to but, What the %$#% is
>>a 928s
I seem to recall seeing one of thoes.  Ah yes, I was racing one up a
mountain on the interstate once.  He decided to let up after 105 or so and
It didn't seem like a bad idea for me to do the same.  Too bad though, the
Vista-Cruiser wanted to go faster. :)  (but then I don't think the driver of
the porche was trying very hard either)
 
Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #572
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