To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #529


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 21 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 529

Re: HEI Headaches... -still
Rocket 88 Song
Re: Olds 403
Re: Rocket 88 Song
Re: RadioShack equipment...
Re: Conv. Top Adjustment
Re: Water Wetter
Front Drive Differentials
Re: Olds 403
Re: No subject given
Re: exhaust again
455 engine swap
442
Re: RadioShack equipment...
Re[2]: Pronouncing 442
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Front Drive Differentials
vacuum switch
Re: HEI Headaches...
Re: Aftermarket wheels
Re: RadioShack equipment...
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Aftermarket wheels
RE: vacuum switch
Finding phone #s
Re: Fuel Injection
Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply
Re: Olds 403
Re: Some 442 ?s
Whats in a name??  was Re: 442
RE: Finding phone #s
Re: Finding phone #s
Re: Olds 403
Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply
Secret service automobile leasing (humor)
Re: RadioShack equipment...
Re: Rocket 88 Song
Re: Olds 403
RE: Some 442's
Re: Pronouncing 442
RE: Some 442's
Re: Front Drive Differentials
Re: Olds Starfire curiosities
RE: Fuel Injection
F*rd 9" Rears
Things that disturb escape442@aol.com (was: Pronouncing 442)
Re: Pronouncing Cornfed
Re: Water Wetter
Re: Front Drive Differentials
RE: Some 442's

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Headaches... -still

Etzel Bobby wrote:
>
> Since it has been working it sounds like you have it wired correct.

Agreed.

> Start by unhooking the connecters in the HEI. Try the wire to the
> pick-up coil first. I have seen these pick-up coils melt and
> short-out.

Yup.  Good plan.

> If that doesn't fix it, reconnect the connector to the module, than
> remove the coil.  The coil could be shorted out also.

Exactly.

> If all that fails you may have to replace the HEI.

Unfortunately, even if the pick-up or the coil was the original culprit,
the electronic module may have melted down by now.  Bobby's absolutely
right about disconnecting things.  If, with everyting disconnected, it
STILL gets hot, the innards of the HEI is surely screwed.  If I remember
right, you've had this happen before and your changed the module only to
have it fail again, right?  If so, this almost certainly points to one of
the devices external to the HEI.

I'd also consider taking the pick-up and the coil down to the parts store
and see if they can check them.  They should have a multi-meter around so
comparison to a known (new) good device would tell the story.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:20:00 -0400
Subject: Rocket 88 Song

Help Oldsheads,
What was the name of the jazz/blues group who did that Rocket 88 song. I
have a copy of the song for the Multimedia section but I dont know the name
of the group.

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:27:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

At 10:30 AM 2/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
>intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
>rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!

Hmm, I'll take it, but where are you? It's not worth mailing the parts.

>How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
>would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.

Well, I bought a rebuildable one for $60. Coulda probably got it for $50,
but...

>Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
>other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
>bolt up to it?

Well, I like mine. It will bolt up to any B-O-P pattern bellhousing.

>Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?

Not yet...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:35:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

bryceman@442.com wrote:
>
> Help Oldsheads,
> What was the name of the jazz/blues group who did that Rocket 88 song. I
> have a copy of the song for the Multimedia section but I dont know the name
> of the group.

Isn't that Jackie Brenston?

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:28:28 -0400
Subject: Re: RadioShack equipment...

>I have one of those multimeters that "looks as if it would self-
>destruct" and have had it for about 5 years. The only thing I've had to
>do to the meter is replace the battery that died because "some idiot"
>left the dang thing on.

Or you could do as "some other idiot" did and inadvertently try to do
a resistance test on a hot circuit, thus accidently recharging the
battery. Convenient, if slightly sparky...  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Jar Lyons <jarl@xactlabs.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:42:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Conv. Top Adjustment

When I replaced my top I went the extra mile and removed the
whole assembly, took it apart, and had it blasted/painted/ ...

As far as adjustments go, I believe the main bolts where the
assembly attaches to the car (behind the rear seat) will allow
the entire assembly to be either rotated forward/back, or moved
forward/back.

I personally wouldn't try adjusting either of these unless you're
in the middle of replacing your top.  You might find the adjustment
helps the mechanism anchor more tightly to the car, but I'd be
shocked if you didn't introduce wrinkles in the fabric.  Don't
forget, the material was installed TIGHTLY based on the current
bolt positions.

The only adjustment I know of that won't stretch the fabric is
the hold down bolts on the front bow.



Have you backed up your data today?
(FREE Trial) Atrieva Internet Backup Service http://www.atrieva.com

Jar Lyons
jarl@xactlabs.com
XactLabs  (www.xactlabs.com)
600 University Street, Suite 911
Seattle, WA  98101
Voice: (206) 749-2914,
Fax:   (206) 382-6615
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
                1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
                       455 Rocket Powered
                'How fast do you want to go today?'
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 04:24:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

     Okay, Water Wetter is a product made by RedLine corp that you add to
     your cooling system.  It's a surfactant that lowers the surface
     tension of your coolant, making bubbles less likely to form (makes it
     "wetter" or "runnier").  The manufacturer says it will improve cooling
     by elminating the tiny bubbles that like to stick to the walls of your
     cooling passages and radiator tubes thus improving heat transfer (Oh,
     no!  Not heat transfer again!).  You can even use it with plain water
     if you live somewhere that doesn't freeze.

     Personally, I think it works.  I put it in my '79 Cutlass which had
     chronic cooling problems, wanted to overheat going up mountain passes
     and such, and it helped some but didn't completely solve the problem
     (it's not a miracle pill).  I ran it for a year in my '84 H/O w/ 50%
     antifreeze and it helped to keep things cooler.  When I flushed the
     system last fall I didn't put Water Wetter back in.  Since then the
     car runs slightly warmer, perhaps 5 degrees.  I'll put it back in when
     the weather gets warm.

     Tom "Will Water Wetter cool off flaming posts?" Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442 Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/20/97 5:20 PM

Frank,  I would like to angrily debate "wetter water" with you,  however, I
first need to know what the hell that is. ~( : 3 )  What is it's formula?  H2
(OOOO)?


------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:44:58 -0400
Subject: Front Drive Differentials

I was wondering about the differentials in front wheel drive vehicles (i.e.
Tornados).  Is there one or is all gearing handeled in the trans?  If there is
one where do they put it?  I would imagine it would take up quite a bit of
space and with everything else going on up there it amazes me that they could
fit that along with a biger oilpan and still handle the power that the
Tornados put out.

Josh
'65 Jetstar 88 Convertible

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:52:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

Gerald Hughes wrote:
>
ad> I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
ad> intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
ad> rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!



 How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
 would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.

 Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
 other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
 bolt up to it?

 Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?

                                                 Gerald Hughes
                                                 79 Hurst/Olds


People...I'm sorry, I forgot to differentiate between the ad and my
text.  I will do that now.

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 04:51:18 -0400
Subject: Re: No subject given

     I think the part numbers are in the FAQ for the differences between
     the '84 VIN "Y" and VIN "9".  I'm sure it's very similar on the '87,
     but with a different camshaft due to the roller lifters.  If I can
     remember correctly, the difference is the cam, valve springs, harmonic
     balancer, carb, air cleaner, and dual cat-back exhaust.

     If you're trying to get a Y up to 9 power standards, I would start
     with a cam and valve spring change, but perhaps use a mild Mondello
     cam rather than the factory piece, and then rejet and retune your carb
     to match.  I have the spec sheet for the factory '84 HO cam, and I've
     been meaning to compare it to some of the aftermarket units available
     (like Mondello's JM16-18).  Next get a more free breathing air cleaner
     and cat-back dual exhaust.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: No subject given Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/20/97 6:34 PM


I need information on the differences between 87 307"Y"s and 307"9"s?


------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:02:30 -0400
Subject: Re: exhaust again

nmichelli@acl.nyit.edu wrote:
>
> from what i have heard the flowmasters are too loud i was wondering if
anyone knew anything about the thrush turbo muffelers or the summit
performance muffs...i know they say they can add at least 21 horses but i was
wondering about sound as well... > > 85 Delta 88 > V6 231 3.8L Rwd > 2 door,
Royale

With Flowmasters, higher compressions and valve lift have the largest
effect on their loudness.  Dynomax and Borla are effected the same.
Also I always thought Flowmasters make everything sound like the
Mustangs running around, but that's not the case.  I'm running
Flowmasters with a 455ci 9:1 472in. vavle lift.  At idle it sounds beefy
but with a deeper tone than turbo mufflers.  They are so much softer
than the "glass packs" that used to be under there.  A friend installed
Dynomax mufflers on his '70 and it wasn't loud either.  They sounded
great too.

Hope this helps...
John Schumacher
NTOC#254
OCA#021151
64 D88
69 442
74 Supreme

------------------------------

From: IRA_H_SIEGELMAN@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil (IRA H SIEGELMAN)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:14:17 -0400
Subject: 455 engine swap

     I will soon begin the swap of a 350 for a 455 and I would like to know
     if I can use the A/C, P/S, ALT. brackets and pulleys from the 350 or
     will I need to scrounge around for brackets and pulleys from a 455?

     Thanks in advance,

------------------------------

From: JOSE.TREJO@pactel.com (TELESIS.LEGTEL:JOSE TREJO)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:11:00 -0400
Subject: 442

      Date:  02/21/1997  09:11 am  (Friday)
      From:  Jose Trejo
        To:  SF-CCMAIL("oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at Internet")
   Subject:  442

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        Oldsmobile had a slight fixation on military/NASA
nomenclature.
Examples F-85, J-2, W-30, Rocket, Starfire etc. ad
nauseum. In the good
old pre PC world violent or agressive names sold.
Oldsmobile using stark
military sounding numerical designations was a
marketing ploy. Naming
the 4-4-2 was comprised of three seperate componets.
Therefore, I have
always said Four Four Two. It sounds like an
experimental plane that
Chuck Yeager would break mach I in.>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, then, what about the 747 Jet????  (pronounced
"four fourty seven")

p.s.  Perhaps a better way to use that excessively spare
time????!!!!

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:09:02 -0400
Subject: Re: RadioShack equipment...

> >>> Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com> 02/20/97 04:09pm >>>
> Go to Radio Shack and look at their digital DVM that fits in your shirt
> pocket. I bought one a few years ago, and it is MORE than you need for
> auto electronics. They also sell the DIY kind for a couple bucks. Haven't
> been to one of these places in years, but can't imagine that anything has
> changed...
>
> It's been my experience that RadioShack makes RadioSh*t.  I went in to
> our local RS la few months ago looking for a cheapo multimeter>
> -Blaine

FWIW, I bought a DVM at Radio Shack about 8 years ago, for around $25 on
sale... and it's held up pretty good so far, especially considering that 99%
of the time it's used for automotive applications.

Tis true of course that other Radio Shack products don't have a great
reputation; their old TRS (AKA "Trash") 80 line of computers come to mind...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:04:53 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Pronouncing 442

     Hey, I agree completely, Danny!  I think it was all part of the
     "Rocket" image, with the rocket block, rocket logo, etc.  Back then,
     Olds knew who they were and they had a coherent marketing plan that
     they knew exactly what it was and where they were going with it.  I
     don't see anything resembling that sort of coherency in the new Olds.

     There, we've come full-circle back to the new-olds marketing thread.
     Can the four-four vs. four-forty thing die now, or do I have to make a
     Nazi reference to offically declare it dead?  :-)

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442 Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/20/97 6:35 PM

I may regret this but here goes my take on this mess.

 Oldsmobile had a slight fixation on military/NASA nomenclature.
Examples F-85, J-2, W-30, Rocket, Starfire etc. ad nauseum. In the good
old pre PC world violent or agressive names sold. Oldsmobile using stark
military sounding numerical designations was a marketing ploy. Naming
the 4-4-2 was comprised of three seperate componets. Therefore, I have
always said Four Four Two. It sounds like an experimental plane that
Chuck Yeager would break mach I in.

Danny


------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:06:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
>
> John, Secretary NTOC,
> I couldn't help but reply. What does all that mean?
>
> Art Fuller, Chapter Rep, NTOC

It's just for fun...that's all...

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:22:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Front Drive Differentials

joshstrub wrote:
>
> I was wondering about the differentials in front wheel drive vehicles
> (i.e. Tornados).  Is there one or is all gearing handeled in the trans?

The gearing is handled by transmission just like any other.  They took a
400 and split it aft of the torque convertor housing, reversed the
transmission and placed it along side the (offset) motor, then used a
MONSTER chaindrive to connect the torque convertor to the transmission
now designated the "425".

> I would imagine it would take up quite a bit of space and with
> everything else going on up there...

Not so bad.  Since the transmission sits next to the lower block, there's
enough room.  It's actually pretty roomy under that long hood.

> ...and still handle the power that the Tornados put out.

It's built like a tank.  ...and weighs almost as much.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: IRA_H_SIEGELMAN@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil (IRA H SIEGELMAN)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:24:14 -0400
Subject: vacuum switch

     Can someone PLEASE help straighten out the spaghetti like vacuum lines
     on the 455 I just bought. There is a vacuum control switch with 3
     ports screwed into the intake, where should they go? Also, the
     original is somehow electrically controlled (one green wire exiting
     the top running into the main harness). The replacement I bought does
     not have a place to connect this wire - help.

------------------------------

From: Death <dldeathe@mail.pittstate.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:21:40 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Headaches...

I have placed a HEI system in my 71 Cutlass Supreme.
What kind of problem are you having?

Deatherage



On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:

> I'm still in the process of troubleshooting my HEI system, and I'm starting
to > get frustrated.  When this topic came up several months ago, someone >
(Bob?) mentioned that the original voltage regulator should be replaced for >
a newer electronic one.  How do I tell the stinkin' difference between the >
original style and the replacement one?  The one that came off my car sure >
looks original.  It's got a capacitor and two strange little spring-like
things on > the bottom.  It's also crunched pretty badly on one side.  I took
it to the > parts store and had it tested, but they said it was fine... which
I find hard to > believe.  I'd apreciate any light that could be shed on these
things... > Thanks. > > -Blaine > '72 Cutlass Supreme > > >

------------------------------

From: "Craig J. Smith" <craigs@dancris.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:28:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Aftermarket wheels

Mark Cornea (R) wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 10:49am, Craig J. Smith wrote:
> > Subject: Aftermarket wheels
> > Does anyone know of any companies that make after-market wheels.  I've
> > been looking around the junkyards for Superstock I rims with no success
> > and was wondering if there are any alternatives.  Thanks
> >
> > Craig Smith
> > 68 442
> >
> >-- End of excerpt from Craig J. Smith
>
>         Craig,
>                 I had a set of Superstock I's made for my '70 from "SPECILTY
> WHEELS" in Oregon, and they look real nice.
>
>                                                        ___  ___
>                                               /     /    / /  /
>                                              / __  /  --/ /  /
>        Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/ Red
>
>              (MCORNEA@pt8244.pto.ford.com)

Mark,
Would you happen to have a phone number or address for them.  I called
information for the Oregon area codes and nothing was found under
"Specialty Wheels" thanks

Craig Smith
68 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:32:13 -0400
Subject: Re: RadioShack equipment...

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> Or you could do as "some other idiot" did and inadvertently try to do
> a resistance test on a hot circuit, thus accidently recharging the
> battery.

Also good for adding that jaunty twist to the needle in the analogs.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:29:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

> > Gerald, This whole subject started when I commented how some ignorant
people > > say > > "Four Forty Two" instead of Four- Four-Two.   Ed
Escape442@aol.com

Are you sure you don't mean 'uninformed', rather than 'ignorant', Ed?
For instance, what were they calling your car *after* you corrected them?

Just curious...


Tim (Wondering If He Should Be Sorry for Continuing this Thread) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <Unregistered_Address@ford.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:44:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Aftermarket wheels

On Feb 21,  1:28pm, Craig J. Smith wrote:
> Subject: Re: Aftermarket wheels
> Mark Cornea (R) wrote:
> >
> > On Feb 21, 10:49am, Craig J. Smith wrote:
> > > Subject: Aftermarket wheels
> > > Does anyone know of any companies that make after-market wheels.  I've
> > > been looking around the junkyards for Superstock I rims with no success
> > > and was wondering if there are any alternatives.  Thanks
> > >
> > > Craig Smith
> > > 68 442
> > >
> > >-- End of excerpt from Craig J. Smith
> >
> >         Craig,
> >                 I had a set of Superstock I's made for my '70 from
"SPECILTY
> > WHEELS" in Oregon, and they look real nice.
> >
> >                                                        ___  ___
> >                                               /     /    / /  /
> >                                              / __  /  --/ /  /
> >        Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/ Red
> >
> >              (MCORNEA@pt8244.pto.ford.com)
>
> Mark,
> Would you happen to have a phone number or address for them.  I called
> information for the Oregon area codes and nothing was found under
> "Specialty Wheels" thanks
>
> Craig Smith
> 68 442
>


	Craig,
		Specialty Wheels LTD
			phone # (503) 668-4793

	The ad is on page 66 in Muscle Car Review April/May 97

                                                       ___  ___
                                              /     /    / /  /
                                             / __  /  --/ /  /
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/ Red

             (MCORNEA@pt8244.pto.ford.com)



>-- End of excerpt from Craig J. Smith

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:12:01 -0400
Subject: RE: vacuum switch

Need a little more info here. What year car? Automatic or manual trans.
Orginal engine type for the car?

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the....Past)
______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Fri, Feb 21, 1997 12:33 PM Subject:
vacuum switch To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

     Can someone PLEASE help straighten out the spaghetti like vacuum lines
     on the 455 I just bought. There is a vacuum control switch with 3
     ports screwed into the intake, where should they go? Also, the
     original is somehow electrically controlled (one green wire exiting
     the top running into the main harness). The replacement I bought does
     not have a place to connect this wire - help.


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From:	IRA_H_SIEGELMAN@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil (IRA H SIEGELMAN)
Message-Id: <9701218565.AA856545854@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil>
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
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------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:44 -0400
Subject: Finding phone #s

Try www.the-yellowpages.com to look up companies like wheel
manufacturers.  This location can help you narrow down a search.  I
don't know if you can find Canadian locations, but the entire U.S. is
covered.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Gregory M Zimmerman <gzimmerm@runet.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:20:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection

I called Dick Miller Racing (517-782-2012) about their electronic ported
fuel injection system for Oldsmobiles.  I looks similar to a mustang 5.0
unit with the air going in the side, and long runners going into the
manifold.  I beleive it flows 1000cfm.  Anyway, he wants $4500 per
unit!!! OUch!

I'm interested if anyone has any experience in using Holley's dual quad
TBI injection set up.  I think if it would look cool on a Offey. low
profile dual quad intake on an olds big block.  And a lot cheaper than
$4500!  Probably could be done for $1500.

- -greg

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:14:25 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply

- ----------
> From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply
> Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 11:35 PM
>
> Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> >
> > >>> Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com> 02/20/97 08:39pm >>>
> > Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> > >> because the wire gets hot as soon as I turn the key on.
> >
> > >Ah!  A clue.  If you hooked 12V from the battery with the rest of the
car
> > >OFF and it still gets hot, the problem is internal to the HEI.  In
other
> > >words, if you janked the HEI and hooked it and the battery up on  the
> > >kitchen table and it STILL gets hot, the wiring harness is NOT the
> > >problem.
> >
> > Oh thank goodness!  Someone finally understands what I was trying to
say!
> > =)
> >
> > >Even if you have changed the module, I think there are still a few
other
> > >components in there that may be causing the problem, either directly
or
>
>
> I talked to a friend of mine who is a mechanic. He seems to feel that
> there is an internal short in the coil itself. Just my $.02
>
> Stephen Hoover
> Dallas, Texas
> '70 Cutlass "S"
> Since the 12 V lead is only connected to the primary side of the coil the
short would have to be there or in the wire itself. Disconnect the wire and
see if it still gets hot. If not make sure the leads that come out of the
coil are right. One is a ground. If it was touching the 12 v lead or the
prong is in the wrong hole in the cap connecting it to the hot lead theres
your short. If not then it would have to be in the coil itself.
As Dennis Miller would say "This is just my opinon I could be wrong"
Walter

------------------------------

From: pteubel@safety1st.com (Peter Teubel)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:16:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

     Where are you located?  I'll take it if you're in New England
     somewhere.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Olds 403 Author:  Gerald Hughes
<ghughes@cadvansys.com> at imail Date:    2/21/97 11:30 AM


I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!
How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.

Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
bolt up to it?

Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?

                                                Gerald Hughes
                                                79 Hurst/Olds


------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:18:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Some 442 ?s

     3.73:1 rear gears.

     Yes, the tranny is slightly improved.  I don't know the exact details
     but I think a 10-vane pump and a new governor are involved.  It's
     almost standard practice to upgrade an '84-'85 200-4R to these parts
     when rebuilding it.  BTW, the 200-4R is standard on the 442 (It really
     is a 4-speed 4-bbl 2-exhaust).

     Yes, 442 striping is almost as rare.  Fortunately, you don't have
     nearly as many stripes as the Hurst/Olds, and some aftermarket
     companies are starting to make repro kits (like Lauren Eng.).

     The interior should all swap across, but why?  IMHO, it's not worth
     the effort and you may be hurting the resale value of the car.  Some
     parts, such as the ceiling and carpet may be destroyed trying to
     remove them and you'll have to buy replacements.

     Personally, I don't think T-tops are worth the hassles from leaks,
     wind noise, and more chassis flex.  But if it's what you want, go for
     it!
     The 442's didn't come with a rear wing, only the H/O's.  I've seen
     many 442's that got a rear wing put on afterwards though, some maybe
     even by the dealer.
     Those wheels are stock for the 442, glad it still has them!
     Cruise is the same module as in any other '86 cutlass.  Shouldn't be
     too hard to find a replacement cruise brain at the junk yard, assuming
     the brain is the problem.
     Good price for the car, considering that you're going to replace the
     engine so you don't care about the mileage.

     Good luck!

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:41:40 -0400
Subject: Whats in a name??  was Re: 442

>         Oldsmobile had a slight fixation on military/NASA
> nomenclature.
> Examples F-85, J-2, W-30, Rocket, Starfire etc. ad
> nauseum. In the good
> old pre PC world violent or agressive names sold.


	Has anybody else noticed that Dodge (of all makes) has been using
thoes types of names for cars again?  Things like Avenger (sounds cool,
was also a WWII torpedo bomber) and the Intrepid (as in U.S.S Intrepid)
and Viper (again, sounds *very* cool, and even has car to match!)
Oldsmobile still has a couple of good ones, like the Aurora, Cutlass, and
even Intrigue sound cool (and we'd all like to see the return of 442
however you want to say it :). Still, it's hard to top names like
Starfire, Jetfire, Satalite, Wildcat, etc.
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:47:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Finding phone #s

You can try the GTE SuperPages also:

 http://superpages.gte.net/

Good site, seems to be my favorite for some reason.

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the....Past)
______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Fri, Feb 21, 1997 1:26 PM Subject:
Finding phone #s To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

Try www.the-yellowpages.com to look up companies like wheel
manufacturers.  This location can help you narrow down a search.  I
don't know if you can find Canadian locations, but the entire U.S. is
covered.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2


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 21 Feb 1997 13:03:32 -0500 (EST)
Date:	Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:44 -0400
From:	david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Subject: Finding phone #s
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
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------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:39:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Finding phone #s

david wyatt wrote:
>
> Try www.the-yellowpages.com to look up companies like wheel
> manufacturers.  This location can help you narrow down a search.  I
> don't know if you can find Canadian locations, but the entire U.S. is
> covered.

Also try http://www.switchboard.com/

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:38:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

- ----------
> From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
> To: Oldsmobile Forum <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Olds 403
> Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 9:30 AM
>
> I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
> intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
> rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!
> How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
> would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.
>
> Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
> other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
> bolt up to it?
>
> Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?
>
> 						Gerald Hughes
> 						79 Hurst/Olds
> The 403 has very thin cylinder walls and the bore is so big that it can
only be safely bored .020. Even at this you must leave off the chamfer to
help start the rings in or the head gasket will over hang the bore. I don't
know if anyone has come up with a special gasket to help overcome this
problem or not.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:43:34 -0400
Subject: Re: HEI Headaches... -still -Reply

jones wrote:
>
> Since the 12 V lead is only connected to the primary side of the coil
> the short would have to be there...

It also powers the HEI itself.

> ...or in the wire itself.

Wires almost by definition are a short.

> Disconnect the wire and see if it still gets hot.

The wire?  If it's disconnected you have an open circuit.
No current flow = no heat

> If not make sure the leads that come out of the coil are right. One is
> a ground. If it was touching the 12 v lead or the prong is in the wrong
> hole in the cap connecting it to the hot lead theres your short.

Yes but this DID work.

> If not then it would have to be in the coil itself.

The general consensus.

> As Dennis Miller would say "This is just my opinon I could be wrong"

Thought I don't recall Miller ever admitting it.  ;)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:40:44 -0400
Subject: Secret service automobile leasing (humor)

          The following is a legitimate request from the Secret Service as
          posted on today's Commerce Business Daily.  Spelling and terminology

          is all theirs ("breaking maneuvers"?)...

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

     4. LEASE AND REPAIR OF HIGH PERFORMANCE V8 TYPE ENGINES WITH 275 OR
     MORE HORSEPOWERED AUTOMOBILES TO BE USED DURING PROTECTIVE OPERATIONS
     DRIVING
     COURSE - CBD   02-21-97   PSA#1787     NDN- 186-0117-1639-9

     NO-AUTHOR

     VOLUME TITLE- PSA#1787   1997-02-19   20005   SPONSORING AGENCY-
     Department of the Treasury (DY), U.S. Secret Service, Procurement
     Division, Suite 730, 1310 L Street, NW, Washington, DC 20005
     SUBFILE-U.S. GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENTS - Services   SUBFILE CODE- PSE

     SOL USSS970009 DUE 031297 POC Contact: Contract Specialist, Nellie
     A. Potocki-Reeves, 202/ 435-6940 The U.S. Secret Service has a
     requirement to acquire the leasing and maintenance/repair of twelve
     (12) high performance V8 type engines with 275 or more horsepowered
     vehicles to be used during the U.S. Secret Service's Protective
     Operations Driving Course. Vehicles will be used under highly
     stressful conditions including high speeds, vigorous and violent
     lateral weight changes and repeated turning and breaking >maneuvers<.
     The vehicles required shall be Model year 1997 or later, and shall be
     equipped with the following: V8 engines with 275 or more horsepower;
     Rear wheel drive; Four (4) wheel anti-lock breaking system; The wheel
     base shall be less than one-hundred and five (105) inches; Four (4)
     speed automatic transmission; Wheels shall accept 245/50 Z rated high
     performance tires; Limited slip rear axle; Gauge package with
     tachometer; Power windows; Air conditioning; Performance ride and
     handling suspension; Cloth bucket seats; and an extra set of keys per
     vehicle; current registrations and license plates; and shall provide
     bumper to bumper factory/manufacturer's warranty.  Routine maintenance
     will be required annually.  Emergency and towing services will be
     required on an as needed basis.  Vehicles shall be delivered within
     twelve (12) weeks following date of award. F.O.B. destination.  It is
     anticipated that a firm-fixed price contract will be awarded to
     include a base period of one year, with two (2) one year options, if
     exercised by the Government.  The leasing company shall be within a
     fifty (50) mile radius of the James J. Rowley Training Center, 9200
     Power Mill Road, Laurel, Maryland.  Funding will not be available
     until the next fiscal year for this procurement.  Only written
     requests for this solicitation package will be accepted.  The
     Government will not be responsible for any costs in the preparation of
     responses to this announcement.  Please see numbered note 1, which
     fully applies to this solicitation

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:28:16 -0400
Subject: Re: RadioShack equipment...

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Andrew C. Green wrote:
> > Or you could do as "some other idiot" did and inadvertently try to do
> > a resistance test on a hot circuit, thus accidently recharging the
> > battery.
>
> Also good for adding that jaunty twist to the needle in the analogs.

Or you could do what some *other* idiot (see below) did and try to
measure load with a RS multimeter that was rated for 0.1 amps... ;-)

At least they had the foresight to pack a spare fuse with the thing. I
like my RS multimeter, bought on sale also...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:33:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 bryceman@442.com wrote:
> What was the name of the jazz/blues group who did that Rocket 88 song. I
> have a copy of the song for the Multimedia section but I dont know the name
> of the group.

B'man, you're not referring to the current one by Kathy Mattea are you?
It's sort of bluesy... title is "455 Rocket" though.

Saw the video the other night. Great except they used (as someone pointed
out earlier) a junked Buick Skylark for some of the interior shots. Really
good song though. Anyone gotten an animated Olds for the song's web page
yet?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:32:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

jones wrote:
>
> ----------
> > From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
> > To: Oldsmobile Forum <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Subject: Olds 403
> > Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 9:30 AM
> >
> > I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
> > intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
> > rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!
> > How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
> > would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.
> >
> > Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
> > other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
> > bolt up to it?
> >
> > Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?
> >
> >                                               Gerald Hughes
> >                                               79 Hurst/Olds
> > The 403 has very thin cylinder walls and the bore is so big that it can
> only be safely bored .020. Even at this you must leave off the chamfer to
> help start the rings in or the head gasket will over hang the bore. I don't
> know if anyone has come up with a special gasket to help overcome this
> problem or not.


What would be the most I would pay for something like this?  What would
be the middle ground?  If I don't have enough info, can you give me a
guesstimate?

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:34:45 -0400
Subject: RE: Some 442's

>From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:19:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: Some 442 ?s
>
>I don't know much about the 442 version of the G bodies, so take my advice
>with a grain of salt :-)
Take mine with at least a grain or two more!! :)
I do know and love the G-bodies, though.

>First off, my impression is he's asking too much.  Try to talk him down at
>least a grand!  I didn't know they made 442's in '86, I thought only in
'>87.
Yes, Olds made 442's in '86. I believe in '85 also.
Also, if you have a RUST FREE item, it's worth WAY more than $4700 here
in Michigan.  I looked for months and couldn't even FIND one.  They'd appear
one day and be sold the same!
I paid $4800 for an '86 Cutlass Salon, 307-Y, T-Tops, Black w/grey interior,
bucket seats & console, rally-pack gauges, ~102K miles, & NO RUST.
I would kill (not really) for a 442 or 83 H/O -don't care for '84 color
scheme. 442's didn't have a wing, only the H/O's did.

>Finally, I wouldn't invest close to 5 grand in a car that your not sure
>you completely like (interior etc.) with that many miles.
Yes, but $5000 is piddley compared to most any new ride at $16,000+.
They're also not going down in value.

>Things to look for,
>rust on bottom of doors,
>really dry crackly seat back on on rear seat.
>look for any damage on the corners of the dash
>rust in rear bumper
I agree, except that (as far as I know) the '81-88 RWD G-body
Cutlasses did not have the rear bumper rust problem that the 78-80 models
did.  Could be wrong.  If I am, someone will correct me! :)

Also, engine-wise, look for coolant leaks around the front and rear intake
manifold seals - a VERY common thing, esp. with 100K+ miles.  It's also
fairly simple to replace.

My t-top seals are shot & need replacing. (Stored outdoors) :(

Hope you get it.  Hate to see a good 442 go to waste!

Is Chris Witt still in the Lansing area? I know he dropped off the list
awhile back.  I've been thinking about a 403 or 350 for my '86.


Bruce D. Brumm
bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com

'86 Cutlass Salon, 307-Y, T-Tops, black, gauges, power everything, etc.
'84 Cutlass Supreme, 307-Y, Blue, rusty, trusty, FORSALECHEAP!  (Good wheels,
new rubber)

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:18:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

In a message dated 97-02-21 09:55:57 EST, you write:

>>Gerald, This whole subject started when I commented how some ignorant
people
>>say
>>"Four Forty Two" instead of Four- Four-Two.   Ed    Escape442@aol.com
>>
>>If I have to read one more message on this non-subject, I'm going to
>scream.  Who cares?  At least they're all discussing Olds stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Mike Evans
>Richland, MI
>evans1@net-link.net
>
>

Mike,  Start screaming man, cause, a couple of us care.  If you don't think
it's important to correctly say the name of your coveted car, what do you
think is important?  What really makes me want to scream is when I see a post
entitled "No Subject".  That's absurd, who can't be creative enough to title
their remarks so we can decide if we want to read them.  Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:31:36 -0400
Subject: RE: Some 442's

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Bruce D. Brumm wrote:
> Yes, but $5000 is piddley compared to most any new ride at $16,000+.
> They're also not going down in value.

Good point. What you can buy for $16K new around here is pretty sad.

> I agree, except that (as far as I know) the '81-88 RWD G-body
> Cutlasses did not have the rear bumper rust problem that the 78-80 models
> did.  Could be wrong.  If I am, someone will correct me! :)

It may not be so bad, but I know that up here more often than not you see
these cars with rot starting to appear in the chromed section of the
bumper -- usually on the right side for some reason.

> Is Chris Witt still in the Lansing area? I know he dropped off the list
> awhile back.  I've been thinking about a 403 or 350 for my '86.

Mr. Witt is reachable via email at wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bob McElroy <rmcelroy@pitnet.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:27:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Front Drive Differentials

>> I was wondering about the differentials in front wheel drive vehicles
>> (i.e. Tornados).  Is there one or is all gearing handeled in the trans?
<SNIP>   ^^^^^^^^

What with all the bandwidth about the pronunciation of 4-4-2, I cannot
believe that nobody bothered to point out that there is an "o" completely
missing from that post.  I really expected Mike F. to comment on that one.
Personally, I thought a Tornado (notice the capital first letter) was a
British fighter jet.  Now that would be some serious power to drive through
the front wheels. ;)

Bob McElroy

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:36:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Starfire curiosities

In a message dated 97-02-21 10:05:44 EST, you write:

>I may find one of these in a junque yarde this spring if that helps on
>parts.  I do live in AL though & you may find what you want near to
>home.  4-speeds would be very expensive to find for your car & the
>little parts such as console items & shifter may be nearly impossible.
>I would not stop looking though as they are always somewhere.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama

I have only seen ONE Starfire 4 speed, it was a black '66 HTP and at the Nats
several years ago.  I am curious if anyone else has ever seen another.
 Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Bob McElroy <rmcelroy@pitnet.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:27:38 -0400
Subject: RE: Fuel Injection

The DIY EFI group is a very knowledgeable group for the most part, and
should be able to give anyone a lot of good EFI advice.  The group tends to
be more into the Bosch, Delco, Ford, etc. systems that came from the auto
manufacturers.  There is a knowledge base in regards to most other EFI
systems also.

In particular, the Holley TBI system (referred to in the original post) has
been discussed on the EFI list.  As I recall, the general consensus was
that the Holley system was a decent entry level EFI system that was easy to
retro fit onto an application that originally had a four barrel carburetor.
 Some of the list members disagreed on the controllers that Holley is
using.  The base system contains an analog computer that is tuned by
potentiometers built into the computer enclosure.  More expensive systems
are available that have a digital computer and can be tuned by either a
stand-alone programmer (I believe its Holley that offers this feature) or a
personal computer.

Also, I don't believe the base Holley systems include an oxygen sensor,
which is an additional expense many people may not be aware of.  The EFI
system will certainly work without an oxygen sensor, however you may not be
able to achieve much of an economy increase at part-throttle speeds.

For more information regarding EFI systems, go to the DIY EFI home page at:

http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu

There are links to the EFI 332 project (sort of a joint development of a
fuel-injection system using an HC11 controller), and the searchable
archives of the DIY EFI mailing list.

Finally, if anyone here was signed onto the DIY EFI list a few months ago,
and has not received any mailings from the server in awhile, they
experienced a massive file corruption on the mail server.  I believe
several subscribers were lost in the process.  The list is still active, go
to the site above if you need to re-subscribe.

Bob McElroy

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:36:06 -0400
Subject: F*rd 9" Rears

Joe wrote:

<<Sorry Bob, I disagree.  I can't say that I've ever seen an axle
     housing failure. >>

First off, I was essentially reporting what someone with, I assumed, more
experience and knowledge than myself, was saying. I have never used a F*rd 9"
rear.  I haven't needed or desired to.

As for axel housing failures, Olds warrantied one for me back in ~'68.  I hit
second gear at the drag strip and noticed that the car made a funny lurch.
 Went through the traps ~103 and while pulling into my spot in the pits a guy
tells me my rear is leaking.  Can't remember which side but there was _one_
rear cover bolt and the suspension attachents holding the broken piece of
casting and tube onto the car.

:-0

Whew, raised my "pucker factor" quite a bit.  Glad I wasn't aware of the
problem at 100mph+.  Inspection of the pieces showed that a crack had been
there for some time.  About 1/4" of rusty casting on the surface and bright
new metal below. It held for hundreds of runs then broke.  So housings can
and do break.

<< The primary loads in any rear end are between the
     pinion and ring gears.>>

Absolutely agreed.

<<  In both cases (9" and Salisbury housings, the
     portion of the assembly which takes the load is a substantial casting.
     The 9" goes even further with the availability of the nodular carrier.>>

The 9" carrier has less support than a full casting like the GM Salisbury
rears which support the side bearings within a full casting. See below.

     <<The Salisbury rear only uses the casting to the minimum extent
     possible;>>

Doesn't every manufacturer?

<< it is necessarily larger than the Ford pumpkin due to the
     need to attach the _sheet metal_ axle tubes and rear cover.  >>

You know that for a fact? It seems to me they're essentially the same for
this aspect.  The differences are in the castings and how they _support their
components_.  Please explain to me how free standing bearing holders and caps
are stronger than fully supported designs?  It's like the windowed webs of
the 403.  They can't be as strong or rigid as fully supported designs.  Any
flexing of the carrier will affect the mesh of the ring and pinion gears
leading to increased wear and stress and earlier failure.

If the 9" is so strong, why is there a nodular carrier in the first place and
why are all those beefed up housings out there?

I've never heard (doesn't mean they aren't out there) of heftier "C" housings
from the GM parts system. And the 12 bolt "C" has been used for some time in
many very serious cars with good results.  Maybe the GM castings are already
nodular?  I don't know.

 <<The real difference in strength between the two designs is in the gear
     set.  All else being equal (that is, gear cross section, material
     properties, axle shaft diameter, etc), the 9" diameter gear will carry
     a higher load than the 8 7/8" diameter gear in the 12 bolt; the
     increased lever arm of the larger diameter gear will reduce loads on
     the gear teeth and bearings.>>

I agree, metallurgy and some other factors aside, the diameter of the ring
gear equates with strength. At a tad under 9" (8.875?) the "C" is pretty
close.  I doubt very much that there are significant differences in strength
versus ring/pinion.  As noted earlier, some 10 bolt rears (8.2 qnd 8.5 ring
gears) take a bunch of abuse.  Like in built Buick GN's.  The 10 bolt "P" 8.2
inch ring gear 4 pinion posi case that came in my '67 has broken only twice
in 30 years.   One as noted above by way of a defective casting.  the second
when I hit second gear and a hole in the concrete roadway at the same time.
 Took two teeth of a brand new ring gear.  It has taken everything else I
have dumped into it.  I investigated the possbility of installing a 9" in my
'67.  After adding up all the expenses and, IMO, a questionable strength
increase without spending mucho more bucks, I'll keep the GM design thanks.

I still contend that much of the popularity of the 9" is availability of
cores and parts and, mostly, the "quick change" capability.  As noted, this
an advantage to drag and other racers time wise.  If the overall system can
be _made_ as beefy as needed, the 9" becomes even more attractive.   Also,
what works on race cars frequently becomes the "hot setup" for the street as
well.  It still doesn't mean it's better or the best.

<< I don't know the design specifics of the two units to
     fully understand the weak links.>>

That makes two of us and there are obviously other considerations as well.

<<  I can guarantee, however, that the
     actual housing is a long way down the list of weak points in either
     design.>>

Here we disagree.  My experiences and the open versus supported brearing
designs lead me to come to the conclusion that supported wins most every
time.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:48:26 -0400
Subject: Things that disturb escape442@aol.com (was: Pronouncing 442)

> What really makes me want to scream is when I see a post
> entitled "No Subject".  That's absurd, who can't be creative enough to title
> their remarks so we can decide if we want to read them.  Escape442@aol.com

I think this boils down to someone not putting an entry in the subject
field.  I know if you leave the field blank, Netscape will prompt you
for an entry upon sending the message.  If you ignore it, Netscape
inserts "(no subject)".  I believe that is _how_ we get "no subject"
e-mails, but in no way is intended as an excuse for not titling the
message.

BTW, did you noticed that I even replaced the subject line to properly
reflect the changing content of this thread? <g>

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:58:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Cornfed

Well, since I sense a floundering interest in the proper enunciation of
4-4-2, would anyone care to discuss Duckman's sidekick?  I have been tuning
in to this show to get a feel for the humor.  I kind of like it, but it is
not quite raunchy enough.  I do have a profound admiration for Cornfed, he is
the best piglet since Arnold.   The episode where Cornfed had to lose his
virginity in 24 hours was a classic. ~( ; 3 )   Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:07:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

Having used water wetter, I have but one complaint against it.  It reacts
with VHT engine paint and changes its color.   My engine is Chevy blue
(blasphemy! but it was free so...) and wherever my coolant mixture touches
it, it turns grey.  Maybe it's mad because it was painted a Chevy
color...hehe

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:27:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Front Drive Differentials

Bob McElroy wrote:
>
> > I was wondering about the differentials in front wheel drive vehicles
> > (i.e. Tornados).  Is there one or is all gearing handeled in the
> > trans?
> <SNIP>  ^^^^^^^^
>
> What with all the bandwidth about the pronunciation of 4-4-2, I cannot
> believe that nobody bothered to point out that there is an "o"
> completely missing from that post.  I really expected Mike F. to
> comment on that one.

It was noted but if I picked on anybody about their spelling, I end up
gettin e-bombed to death for my own mistakes.  At least he didn;t confuse
it with an El Dorado.   ;)

> Personally, I thought a Tornado (notice the capital first letter) was a
> British fighter jet.  Now that would be some serious power to drive
> through the front wheels. ;)

Hmmm...

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:38:45 -0400
Subject: RE: Some 442's

At 03:34 PM 2/21/97 -0400, Bruce D. Brumm wrote:

>Also, if you have a RUST FREE item, it's worth WAY more than $4700 here
>in Michigan.  I looked for months and couldn't even FIND one.  They'd appear
>one day and be sold the same!
>I paid $4800 for an '86 Cutlass Salon, 307-Y, T-Tops, Black w/grey interior,
>bucket seats & console, rally-pack gauges, ~102K miles, & NO RUST.
>I would kill (not really) for a 442 or 83 H/O -don't care for '84 color
scheme. >442's didn't have a wing, only the H/O's did.

Same here in Ohio. When I found my 80 442 for $4,000 I knew it was well
worth the price due to the fact it was 95% rust free, the only problem being
minimal surface rust on the frame.

>I agree, except that (as far as I know) the '81-88 RWD G-body
>Cutlasses did not have the rear bumper rust problem that the 78-80 models
>did.  Could be wrong.  If I am, someone will correct me! :)

Well I was going to take an 83 Cutlass out of the salvage yard and fix it up
to drive until I discovered it had no frame from the rear wheels back...so
yes the early 80's G-body cars have the problem also.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) f-list since: 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28.........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #529
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