To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #571


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 21 March 1997       Volume 01 : Number 571

Re: Parting into factory color.
Re: Hurst Olds Needs A Home
Re: Hurst Olds Needs A Home!
Re: Valve cover gasket sealing
canadian car again
Re: 3-spd column shifters, and trivia [was Re: Speaking of V-C's]
Re: Manual Steering Box Lube:  Lube oil weight????
List returns and other digest peculiarities
Olds 307 swap-out to Olds 350 or 403??
Re: Shift kit
Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Breaking timing belt
RE: Hurst Olds Needs A Home!
Hurst Olds
Re: Car Records
shop manuals
Re: (2) Parting into factory color
Re: Parting into factory color.
Re: Valve cover gasket sealing
Re: 1970 442 W-30 Convert. Pics
Re: Dual exhaust
Re: Dual exhaust
good day
3.3 vs.3.8 v-6's
Re: Cutlass Spotted
Re: (2) Parting into factory color
Re: Hurst / Olds Brouchure For Sale (3/19)
Timing Again
Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: Hurst Olds
found '61 starfire
Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Large H/OCA Patch For Sale
Tilt wheel, or not
Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Re: Parting into factory color.
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: Cutlass Spotted
Re: Breaking timing belt
Re: Valve cover gasket sealing
Re: Timing Again
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: Dual exhaust
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Re: 3.3 vs. 3.8 v-6's
RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)
Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto
Re: Timing Again (Vacuum Advance)
Re: Breaking timing belt (non-interference engines)
ADMIN: Follow the Guidelines Please!
Re: Tilt wheel, or not
442 W-30 Pics
Re: found '61 starfire

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:05:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Parting into factory color.

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>
> I have never had any of my Oldsmobiles in a show where they bothered to
check > the trim tag to verify the correct color for the car. > > AACA says
that if the car is painted a color that was available the year the > car was
produced that it is acceptable.  A non stock color would be a point >
deduction (don't know how much).  The burden of proof lies on you. > > Don't
know where OCA stand on this issue, but no OCA judge has checked my > trim tag
yet. > > Paul

Paul,

In AACA national judging, changing to an unoriginal color for that year
or using a loose approximation of an available color causes an automatic
10 pt deduction out of a total of 400 judging points.

Of course all of this is assuming that the judge on exterior can tell
that the color is not authentic for that car that year.  I was judging
at the Venice, FL AACA national meet where the chief judge did not know
that a 1950 Dodge could be painted a metallic color.  He would have
deducted for that paint even though it correct for Dodges of that era.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Thomas Waldron <tommyw1@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:41:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds Needs A Home

Sorry, I forgot to say that I live in Jersey.

------------------------------

From: Keith455@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:25:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds Needs A Home!

where do you live? I've always wanted a '84.

Keith

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:32:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve cover gasket sealing

At 11:35 PM 3/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>What's the trick to getting valve covers (with rubber gaskets) to seal
>        I use hardening permatex on the valve cover side only, after
>cleaning them real well. I put nothing on the engine side and use a nut
>driver to tighten the bolts. This prevents overtightening which WILL cause
>leaks. I've had mine done for 4 years that way with no leaks.

I've always used a thin layer of goo on the valvecover side of the gasket,
but mainly to stick it on there; I've always relied on a smooth surface on
the head and the pliability of the cork to seal down there.

One thing I found when I changed over to synthetic oil, is that I hadn't
tightened my valvecovers down *enough*. On a freshly rebuilt engine, I had
lots of oil running down the back of the head. Once I tightened it up, it
was fine. So I proved that you *can* undertighten them, though it is more
likely that you will *overtighten* those bolts and bend your valvecovers
beyond recognition.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 02:38:57 -0400
Subject: canadian car again

Another question? When I was redoing the front fenders I found two emblem
holes on the front of each fender. Under bondo. When I asked the original
owner, he said that there was a circular emblem there at one time. Can
anyone tell me what they look like? I saw a picture of a car with 442
emblems on a 64 conv. before, but not the ones he was taking about.
scott
64 olds cutlass F-85 conv.
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:41:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 3-spd column shifters, and trivia [was Re: Speaking of V-C's]

At 11:09 PM 3/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-03-19 22:37:34 EST, you write:
>
>> >> 1) What was the year of the the first US column-shifted manual
>transmission
>>  >> car?
>>  >
>>  >1937.
>>
>>  OK, in what?
>
>Buick
>

NO - NO - NO - NO - NO - NO

Before I found 1932 Cars I owned several 1938 Buicks, and they WERE ALL
floor shifters!

Snips
>
>Paul
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:46:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Manual Steering Box Lube:  Lube oil weight????

At 11:16 PM 3/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
>
>>         Finally --- i got a manual steering box out of a 64 Le Mans ---
every >> thing seems OK with it so far --- but ---- it's bone dry inside ---
what >> weight gear oil do i use in this thing????   Ive got a ton of 90
weight but >> if it is too light i don't want that vile smelling stuff
drooling all over my > >   I can't find my chassis manual, but I thought that
manual boxes were >packed with some kind of grease.  Probably something good
and heavy... > >>                            J2RKT@aol.com > >
-->   Bob Valentine  <-- >                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <-- >
"Experience varies directly with equipment ruined" > > > > If memory serves,
manual steering boxes USUALLY contain 90W axle grease.  If you put in solid
bearing grease, as soon as it gets hot it will melt,and go to the bottom of
the housing; of if you completely fill it up, you will not be able to turn it
when it's cold.  It requires liquid grease, like a manual tranny or the
differential unit.

I would check the owners manual to see if some specific steering gear uses
something different, but would not expect it to be so.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:47:10 -0400
Subject: List returns and other digest peculiarities

Wiz wondered:

> Any 'List' experts here than can explain why?  The =BA seemes to become
=3DB= > A > for example, and the =A2 get lost too, etc!

Wiz, You should see what this does to a beatiful picture !!!

At this particular digest ( ª570 ) I received over 300 Kb of garbage. I'm
lucky to have virtually unlimited mail capacity (in size terms). I can imagine
how this particular "mail" pushed the server near and perhaps over it's
limits. If there is somebody who wants a non-carbage version, I can include
that in reply of private mail.

I'm conserning to program a filter that can convert these digests for
something more useful. One solution would be a HTML:izer that would convert
this "carbage" into a more pleasing form. At the same time Wiz would have his
lost graphics back.

If You have usage for such a program, I'd like to spend some of my time and
skills in doing that. Can do it for both Mac and windows (NT, 3.1, and 95)
platforms.

It is hard to decide whether I should be angry or amazed of the "pictures"
I've received. The person who sent those didn't have any idea what they would
turn into at the digest.

Perhaps he has a good attitude and he is doing his best to please us.
Therefore I can't blame him but thank for the beautiful pictures.

So, thank You for the nice pictures !

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Robert G. Ahrens" <AlphaSig@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:30:48 -0400
Subject: Olds 307 swap-out to Olds 350 or 403??

I am contemplating an engine swap for my 87 Olds Cutlass. I am planning on
removing the 307 and replacing it with either an Olds 350 or a 403, but I
have a few questions that maybe some of you could help me with.

First, has anyone out there done this type of swap, or know of anyone that
has done it? I know that both the 350 and 403 will fit nicely in my
Cutlass, but what I am unsure of is if the computer will be able to handle
either of these two engines.

I am keeping all of the factory emissions controls and the only non-stock
items that I will add are an Edelbrock Performer intake and cam kit. The
engine will never get above 5000 RPM, so I am not concerned with the 403's
weak webs. I am just concerned about the computer being able to cope with
the larger engine and modified cam profile.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Bob Ahrens

------------------------------

From: "Robert G. Ahrens" <AlphaSig@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:20:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Shift kit

- ----------
> Hey everyone,
>
>  I was just wondering if I put a shift kit on my '87 Cutlass, with its
> 103,000 mile transmission, will blow anything up? Can this transmission
> handle it? And finally, will it chirp the tires like I heard it will?
Thanks!
>
> Andy Geeting
I am assuming you have the same TH200C that I have in my 87 Cutlass. I put
in a shift kit and everything is fine. I was having trouble with a sloopy
1-2 shift, but now I can bang the mud off the inside of the rear
fenderwells.

Bob Ahrens

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:35:20 -0400
Subject: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

The following is a list of Olds parts for sale.

64 Cutlass/442
(1) 64 F-85 Fender Emblem (nice) $15.00
(1) 64 V-8 Fender Emblem (good used)  $5.00
Grille Assm     $75.00
RH Headlight Door    $25.00
F. Bumper Core    $75.00
RH Tail Lens    $5.00ea
LH Tail Lens    $5.00ea
Tail Light Bezels (used) $15.00 ea
Steering Wheel Center   $10.00

65 Cutlass/442
(1) 65 V-8 Fender Emblem (good used)  $5.00

66 Cutlass/442
Headlight Doors    $45.00 pr
66-67 Golve Box Door (Mint, black)  $35.00
66 F-85/Cutlass Trunk Molding (Nice) $65.00
66-67 Rear Window Moldings (set)  $75.00 set
66 F-85 RH Taillight Lens and bucket (NIce)  $25.00
66 Cutlass LH Qtr Molding (Nice)  $20.00
66 Front Bumper Core (straight, needs chrome)  $65.00 ea
66 Front Fenders Cutlass/442 (small qtr size hole)  $50.00 ea

67 Cutlass/442
67 Front Hood Molding (Very nice, no pits)  $60.00
67 Front Bumper Core (straight , needs chrome)  $65.00 ea
67 C/S Rear Bumper Core (straight, needs chrome)  $65.00
67 C/S 442 Side Moldings (missing three pieces, in good to very good cond)
$inquire
400/425 NOS Fuel Pump    $50.00
Headlight Doors NOS   $125.00 pr (Cutlass)
(2) 67 Deluxe Full Wheel Covers  $15.00 ea

68 Cutlass/442
68 442 Grille Emblem (Very nice)  $25.00
68 442 Side Emblems (1 set)  $25.00
68 Lower Dash Panel (radio area) black (Mint)  $35.00
68-69 Left Quarter Panel (whole thing to roof, no rust w/inner wheelwell)
$325.00
68-72 Windshield Chrome Trim $45.00 Set
RH Headlight Plastic   $100.00 ea
Headlight Doors    $5.00 ea
Rear Bumper Core    $65.00 (cutlass)
Rear Window Moldings   $40.00 set
(4) 68 Std. Full Wheel Covers  $75.00 set

69 Cutlass/442
Headlight Doors   $50.00 pr
Hood Tongue   $15.00
Hood Hinges   $20.00 pr
LH Tail Light    $20.00
4 Row Radiator Top Plate   $75.00
Black Inner Fenders    $80.00 pr

70 Cutlass/442
70-72 Long Wheelwell Moldings  $80.00 set of 4
70-71 Short Wheelwell Moldings  $100.00 set of 4
70-72 Trunk Chrome Finish Molding  $35.00 ea
70-72 Dash Block Off  $5.00 ea
69-70 442/Cutlass S Hood Louvers $50.00 pr
69-70 442 Cutlass S Hood Louver Bezels $40.00 pr
(1) 69-70 Front Rocket  $10.00
(1) 70 Trunk Lock Rocket (nice)  $10.00
(1) 14x7 HD Steel Wheel  (for dog dish caps) $20.00
Hood Tongue   $20.00 ea
Headlight Doors   $55.00 pr
Hood Hinges  $20.00 pr
442 Post Door Panels   $40.00 pr
Cutlass S Grilles   $50.00 pr
Rear Upper Control Arms   $50.00 pr
455/425/400  Offenhauser 2-4bbl. low rise intake w/2 carter 550 cfm carbs.
(Complete setup w/ linkage) $350.00
70 Cutlass "S" Side Moldings (set) $135.00
70-72 Power Disc Brake Booster w/ master cyl. $75.00 as is
($135.00 rebuilt & detailed)
70-72 Bumper Bracket Sets $40.00 set

72 Cutlass/442
New '72 Main Dash Woodgraining Kit  (around radio area)  $20.00
(4) 72-74 Deluxe Wheel Covers (nice) $50.00 set
Boxed Lower Control Arms  $60.00 pr
Dash Pads (A/C car, 2 black)   $125.00ea

Misc: 1986/87  88/98 Wire Wheel Covers   $125.00 set

**** New stuff to list****
67 Front Hood Molding (Very nice, no pits)  $60.00
67 Cutlass Supreme/442 Side molding set (missing three pieces, in good to
very good cond.) $ inquire
66-67 Glove Box Door (Mint, black)  $35.00
66 F-85/Cutlass Trunk Molding (Nice)  $65.00
66-67 Rear Window molding sets. (Mint) $75.00 set
66 F-85 RH Taillight lens and bucket (Nice) $25.00
66 Cutlass LH Qrt Molding (Nice) $20.00
68 442 Grille Emblem (Very nice)  $25.00
68 442 Side Emblems (1 set)   $25.00
68 Lower Dash Panel (radio area) black (Mint)  $35.00
More 14x7 SSII's $150.00 set of 4
RH 70-72 Door 70-71 Cutlass Supreme tabs (complete, rust free)  $100.00
66 Front Bumper Core (straight, needs chrome)  $65.00
67 Front Bumper Core (straight, needs chrome)  $65.00
67 C/S Rear Bumper Core (straight, needs chrome)  $65.00
70-72 Long Wheelwell Moldings  $80.00 set of 4
70-71 C/S Short Wheelwell moldings  $100.00 set of 4
66-67 SSI (all chrome) 14x6 Wheels (good cond) $150.00 set of 4
70-71 Cutlass Supreme Side Moldings (nice)  $inquire
65?-70 B&C Body Rear Coil Springs (almost new)  $40.00 pr
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Set (black, mint) $50.00 pr
12 Bolt Posi Ch*vy Rear 3.73:1 or 4.10:1 (Posi rebuilt)  $550.00
71-7? 10 Bolt 2.73:1 Open Rear End  $125.00
71-7? 10 Bolt 2.73:1  Anti-Spin Rear End   $350.00
Rear Hood Molding  $50.00 ea
Cowl/Windshield mouldings  $35.00ea
T-3 Headlight Sets $30.00 set (nice working used)
14x7 SSII Wheel Set (5) (bolt on cap) $200.00 set
14x6 SSIII Wheels (newer snap on cap)  $25.00 ea


P.S.  We have more parts in stock, and more coming! The first reproduction
of the
70-72 Cutlass/442 Auto Trans Console Indicator is in. Looks Great. $24.00 ea
new.
Let us know if your interested.

Jim Chermack
'70 Cutlass SX W-32
'72 442
Virginia  Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:02:59 -0400
Subject: Breaking timing belt

<snip>
> driven by a timing BELT, not a double roller steel CHAIN.  I  was told
> that these belts are good for about 45,000-50,000 miles before they give
> out.  People thrash their turbo machines, unaware that their timing
belt<snip>

Some engines like those in Opel are designed to survive the belt breakdown.
The engines have enough clearance in their cylinders to rotate even if some
of the valves are constantly open.


- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Thomas Waldron <tommyw1@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:51:17 -0400
Subject: RE: Hurst Olds Needs A Home!

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Clifton, New Jersey

- ----------
From: Keith455@aol.com[SMTP:Keith455@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 12:25 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds Needs A Home!

where do you live? I've always wanted a '84.

Keith




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------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:38:14 -0400
Subject: Hurst Olds

Where in Jersey do you live.  I live in the Sommerville/Raritan area.  Near
the Bridgewater Commons Mall.

My number is 908.218.4306

Josh

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 02:15:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Car Records

I called the dealership that my '67 Delta was sold through & the
incredulous woman was astonished (her word) that I would be interested in
trying to find out any info on my car (I have the Protecto Plate).  I just
kinda wanted to see if the dealership was still there even.

They don't keep ANY records on ANYTHING for longer then 5 yrs. and I dared
to ask about 30 yrs. ago.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:39:00 -0400
Subject: shop manuals

Does anyone have a set of factory shop manuals for a 90 Olds Cutlass Ciera
that they like to unload?








FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: (2) Parting into factory color

The Wiz wrote:
>That's a judging curiosity that can only be answered by the rules under which
>the judging takes place.  Many clubs allow accessories to be added or
>deleted, as long as they WERE available for the car when it was new.

Does this mean someone who adds the W30 option to a 442 is allowed to
show it as a W30?  After all, the W30 is not a separate series, but is
rather an option package consisiting of various parts.  I think that the
conversion, if it meets or exceeds factory standards, should be allowed.
 No one seems to complain if a W30 owner retrofits their car with a
Ralley Pack, but heaven forbid if someone retrofits a 442 with W30
parts.  What are the standards used in the big leagues?

Scott  Mullen

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:05:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Parting into factory color.

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-03-20 20:22:38 EST, you write:
>
> > Just the other day I read here that a color other than original will incur
> >  penalty in scoring for car shows. This is because the color won't match
> the
> >  color code on the tag with the body specs, right.
>
> I have never had any of my Oldsmobiles in a show where they bothered to
check > the trim tag to verify the correct color for the car.

I have a friend in CA that says there is a person out there that
reproduces the body tags with whatever you want on it.  Apparently there
are a few groups out there that are ~really~ concerned about the tags -
that their tag match the car, not that the car match the tag ;)

Kurt
71 442

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:37:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve cover gasket sealing

scott wrote about sealing valve covers:

> them set up for half an hour before installing them.Or use silicone only,
> putting a good bead of silicone around your valve cover , install, then let
> set up for half an hour before tightening them to factory specs.

I personally would NOT put silicone anywhere near oil. Silicone can be used to
glue the gasgets on the cover but if You intend to open the covers and put
them back again, don't glue the covers on Your block.

Silicone can tear off (after some years in hot conditions) in pieces that may
clog the oil paths. In the case of valve cover, they usually clog the oil
return holes. You might imagine the rest of this story.

So, when you use silicone as a sealing agent, use it in such places where it
can't run away even if it has lost some (or all) of it's plastic properties.

Luckily silicone is quite stabile in chemical means. It can withstand most
solvents. However, it is sensible for alcohol. For example glycol (the
antifreeze fluid) makes silicone to loose it's elstic properties pretty fast
(1 year or so). This makes use of silicone questionable in intake manifolds.

If You have access to nitrile rubber plates (I can send You some if these
can't be found in USA), make Your cover gasgets of this material. It is not as
resistant against heat (tolerates only about 210 degrees celsius) but it is
virtually insolveable and does not loose it's elastic properties. I think most
of the better quality gasgets are made out of this material.


- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:51:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 442 W-30 Convert. Pics

Mr. Tracey Cleeton (tcleeton@mcmsys.com) wrote:

> Hey, here are a few pics of the 1970 442 W-30 I am trying to sell.

Is this an ad or what ?

> Let me know what you think

I know that Your meaning was NOT to fill our mail boxes. Anyway You succeeded
in doing that.

I know that You have received a million postings (mostly angry) and that You
feel sorry about this thing.

We REALLY want the 1000 words in place of a single picture.

- --
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
*       +358 4055 75977                      *
*       +358 9537 430                        *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 1964               *
*            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:15:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

Dave-Last year I bought an H/O with the Flowmasters and they were terrible.
 Way to loud for an old man like me....Several of the Olds only venders sell
aluminized exhaust sets for approx $200.00.  The one I got from Brothers Auto
had IPC (International Pipe Corp.) mufflers (as originally used by GM) and
perfectly recreated the original exhaust tone.  Not to lound or quiet.  The
aluminized exhaust will last 4 or 5 times longer than mild steel.  The
$15-$25 mufflers you mentioned are probably just "glass packs".  The glass
will burn out in six months and your Olds will sound just like all those
"racecar" C*evys!  If your near Kansas City Brothers will even install the
system for you-their restoration facility is second to none-hope this helps.

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:19:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

In a message dated 3/21/97 3:20:32 AM, you wrote:

<<In a message dated 97-03-20 20:52:22 EST, you write:

>  Dynomax Super Turbo's,

I have these on my convertible.  You'll like them.

Paul>>

Paul is correct-I also have these on my 69 conv and they are nice.  Not too
loud, soft or tinney.

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:20:05 -0400
Subject: good day

Hello all,

I've had such a nice morning today that I thought I'd give you-all a
little monologue.

The morning dawned beautifully and cloudless.  I decided to take the
back-road to school today because of the lovely weather; 50 miles of two
lane road, forests, farms, and lots of curves.  The mountains loomed above
the morning mist to the East as if rising out of a cloud.  Lucille seemed
happy too, I tuned her up last night, and it would seem that I've gotten
her carburretor "PERFECT" (or at least as perfect as you can get a car
with well-plug problems).  Even on mid-grade she seemed much peppier that
normal.

I spotted several interesting cars while navigating the curvy state
highway.  There was a 1947(?) Nash, an early 50's Buick, a 1966(?)
Rambler 2 door (perfect shape and it had a for sale sign on it!), what
looked to be an early 70's Toronado, a '72 or so V-C-, an old Lincoln
Limo, several 60's Impala's and Chevelles, a mid-60's Mer. Comet
Caliente; briht red and with a for sale sign on it), and what looked like
2 late 30's early 40's MOPAR's; both of them 2 doors (I think I might try
to talk to this guy).

My car handled wonderfully in the curves.  The extra weight of the 350 in
the '84 Cutlass, gives the car a nice "roll" in the curves that makes the
front end sort of "squat" in the direction of the curve, and then just
pulls the car around it.

In other news, I finally got some pictures of Lucille scanned, and will
give them to Bryceman today to post on his page.  The pictures were all
taken at my trailer, so you all get a chance to see the East Tennessee
mountains as well.

Have a nice day,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Cutlass Supreme (350, 4bbl. TH375, 70k miles)

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:19:00 -0400
Subject: 3.3 vs.3.8 v-6's

I was looking up the specs on my 3.3 in my Ciera and compared it to the 3.8
that is much more common. Wow. The highest hp in the 3.3 was reached at 5300
rpm and torque was reached at something like 3400. The hp (roughly the same)
in the 3.8 was reached at about 2000 rpm lower. The torque was reached at a
much lower rpm too. The 3.3 looks like a revver while the 3.8 looks like
a tractor motor:-)
My 3.3 gets to the 5500 redline in a flash. Now I know why.



FRank... 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955 (every day driver)
         65 El Camino (show car, cruiser)
         95 Plymouth Neon (wifes car)
         95 Dodge Ram 4x4 v-10 (company truck)....

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:25:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Spotted

What is this, I assume it's a graphic, but PINE won't let me see it, it
usually handles attachments awesome.  If it is a graphic, is it online?
at what http: or ftp:.


Thanx




EA~

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:29:46 -0400
Subject: Re: (2) Parting into factory color

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, R Mullen wrote:
> Does this mean someone who adds the W30 option to a 442 is allowed to
> show it as a W30?  After all, the W30 is not a separate series, but is
> rather an option package consisiting of various parts.  I think that the
> conversion, if it meets or exceeds factory standards, should be allowed.
>  No one seems to complain if a W30 owner retrofits their car with a
> Ralley Pack, but heaven forbid if someone retrofits a 442 with W30
> parts.  What are the standards used in the big leagues?

Scott, IMHO, that would be an entirely different circumstance.  The W30
option makes the car MUCH more rare than merely the 442 option.  Again, it
goes back to what you feel comfortable doing I suppose.  I would be
HAPPY to make a W-30 out of a normal 442, probably even out of a
plain-Jane Cutlass, _for my own use_, but, I would NOT feel right about
showing the car as a W-30!  Also, is there anything for you to gain by
showing the car as a W-30?  Assuming that the judging is fair, a 442
should have just as much a chance of winning as a W-30 would have!  It
seems to me, that changing the paint/interior should be okay (e.g.
improving the appearance of the still "original" car), but adding W-30
options _and passing it off as a W-30_ would be _creating a FAKE_!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldmsobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:28:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst / Olds Brouchure For Sale (3/19)

I did not see the message on the h/o brocheure, but if its 1972 I would like
to buy it.  E-mail me at oldoldsguy@aol.com with price and condition please.

------------------------------

From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:07:46 -0400
Subject: Timing Again

With the recent interest and discussion of timing it seems that the way
to go is set up the mechanical advance in order to get as much advance in
(winthout detonation) as quickly as possible.  This raises some questions
about vacumn advance and factory specs.
1.  Some factory specs do not set up a constant advance curve ie. 260 V-8
(mom's grocery getter ;-)) sets up 0deg @ 910, 17 deg @ 2245 and 26 deg @
4465 with 0 deg vacumn advance at 4" HG and 30 deg at 11" of vacumn.
Nothwithstanding the fact that a 260 is likely to blow up at 4465 rpm how
in the world can it require 30 deg advance at part throtttle.?
2.  Mondello recommends 8-12 intial advance and 28 mechanical for a
total advance of 35 +/- with very little vacumn advance. Is this streetable?
3.  For the stupid question of the day.. Is it correct that the way to
set total advance set up is to degree the harmonic balancer, take the
engine to 3000 rpm and set the timing for the total advance necssary?
And, how does one figure out what the total timing should be (for both
economy and performance)? (I guess that may be two or more dumb q's) I
assume in doing so one would plug the vacumn advance and then set the
vacumn advance for best part throttle operation.

Thanks for all the information .. This is a great place to learn from
very knowlegable folks.

Al Varhus


  http://www.infinet.com/~avar



------------------------------

From: Matthew Butler <matthewbutler@oscsystems.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:17:21 -0400
Subject: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

Howdy All!!!

I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
decide to floor it, the car doesn't downshift to 1st.  It just works itself up
to speed in 2nd.  Which, as you can imagine, take a little longer than
expected since the engine is below 2000rpm at 20 mph in 2nd gear.
When I am on the highway, downshifting from (4 to 3) or (3 to 2) is no
problem, but at the lower speeds the downshift from (2 to 1) hasn't ever
happened.  How is this controlled on the 928?  Is it a mechanical linkage
or vacume?  It seems at though there is some sort on mechanincal
linkage that controls this.  I can feel the downshift points with the
accelerator pedal.  As a matter or fact I feel the (2 to 1) downshift point,
but it doesn't happen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Matt Butler

------------------------------

From: The Unsilent Majority <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:24:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurst Olds

At 08:38 AM 3/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Where in Jersey do you live.  I live in the Sommerville/Raritan area.  Near
>the Bridgewater Commons Mall.
>
>My number is 908.218.4306
>
>Josh

take this stuff private fellas!

------------------------------

From: joshstrub@csgnyc1.attmail.com (joshstrub)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:48:58 -0400
Subject: found '61 starfire

I've found a 1961 Starfire convertible with the full drive line.  Not running
because sitting more than ten years.  The top is shot and all crome has been
removed.  Both quarters have a lot of rust and so do the front fenders.  Frame
is solid.  The guy wants $700 for it, is this reasonable.

Josh

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:40:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

As the owner of a plain old 4-4-2, I think those that want to change
their 4-4-2s to W-30s should go ahead.  That way I will have the only
regular 4-4-2 in the world.  Why does everyone want to change?  If it is
the hood scoops, just go ahead and install a hood.  It was available on
4-4-2s as an option (W-25?) without getting into the W-30.  In fact all
of the W-30 trim except for the emblems, stripes and wheel wells was
optional.  Personally I think the red wheel wells are plain ugly with
certain colors.  I remember one W-30 that was originaly Sebring yellow
with a blue interior.  Luckily it had been repainted to white.  I almost
bought it just because it had been so unusual.  Now there was a combo,
yellow, blue, and red.  Oh well, enough rambling for now.  just go ahead
and explain why it is such a popular switch.  You don't see G.T.O. guys
faking Judges all the time, although some do.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:59:44 -0400
Subject: Large H/OCA Patch For Sale

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to
sell:

Hurst/Olds Club of America embroidered patch.  Black and red, on
white.  11 inches in diameter and perfect for the back of a jacket or
use on a car cover.  Mint original.  $20.00 including shipping to any
address in the United States. (3/21/97)

Please notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to
purchase this item or if you would like additional information about
it.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: Dan Bennett <DBennett@asuvax.eas.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:06:17 -0400
Subject: Tilt wheel, or not

Can a tilt wheel sterring column from a '67 cutlass fit a '72?  Will the
steering wheel alone fit on my '72?  thanks for any,all help.
- --
Dan  Bennett
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:11:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

david wyatt wrote:
>
> As the owner of a plain old 4-4-2, I think those that want to change
> their 4-4-2s to W-30s should go ahead.  That way I will have the only
> regular 4-4-2 in the world.  Why does everyone want to change?  If it is
> the hood scoops, just go ahead and install a hood.  It was available on
> 4-4-2s as an option (W-25?) without getting into the W-30.  In fact all
> of the W-30 trim except for the emblems, stripes and wheel wells was
> optional.  Personally I think the red wheel wells are plain ugly with
> certain colors.  I remember one W-30 that was originaly Sebring yellow
> with a blue interior.  Luckily it had been repainted to white.  I almost
> bought it just because it had been so unusual.  Now there was a combo,
> yellow, blue, and red.  Oh well, enough rambling for now.  just go ahead
> and explain why it is such a popular switch.  You don't see G.T.O. guys
> faking Judges all the time, although some do.
>
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2

Dave,
I think it has to do with the fact that the 442 is a bit
understated,mellow looking and the W30 with stripes and hood and wing
screams look at me.Just depends on if you like a sleeper or a screamer.
Frank

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:09:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Parting into factory color.

KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:

> Just the other day I read here that a color other than original will incur
> penalty in scoring for car shows. This is because the color won't match the
> color code on the tag with the body specs, right.
>
> Well, what if the car is repainted in a color that was also available for
> that year and model?
>
> Is the penalty the same?
>
> Just curious.

I am curious too.  How can these judges know what the original color
should
have been?  With today's paint, it might be hard to get the same color
as they
used in the 60's/70's.  You might come close but not exact.  I watched
"Carpool"
the other day.  The man who had the Mazda minivan had it painted
Turquoise Frost.
Well this sure looked close to the color I saw in my trunk of my 68
before I repainted
it.  My 68 was supposed to be Teal Frost.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Chris Sparks
68 442 (Sitting and collecting dust until she gets fixed)

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:04:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

We have a 4-sp auto too, in an '85.  The downshift linkage in our's is
electronic, with the switch on the gas pedal.  However, it will also not
shift to 1st (It has a terribly-mismatched rearend, making this
a slightly annoying feature).  I believe that this is intentional as per the
design of
the tranny.  Of course, I could be wrong (the only thing I know about the
workings of an automatic are how to remove/install and change oil in
them).  Does anyone have a 4-sp that will kick-down into 1st?



EA~

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Matthew Butler wrote:

> Howdy All!!!
>
> I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
> thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
> 928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
> decide to floor it, the car doesn't downshift to 1st.  It just works itself
up > to speed in 2nd.  Which, as you can imagine, take a little longer than >
expected since the engine is below 2000rpm at 20 mph in 2nd gear. > When I am
on the highway, downshifting from (4 to 3) or (3 to 2) is no > problem, but at
the lower speeds the downshift from (2 to 1) hasn't ever > happened.  How is
this controlled on the 928?  Is it a mechanical linkage > or vacume?  It seems
at though there is some sort on mechanincal > linkage that controls this.  I
can feel the downshift points with the > accelerator pedal.  As a matter or
fact I feel the (2 to 1) downshift point, > but it doesn't happen. > > Any
help would be greatly appreciated!!! > > Matt Butler > >

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:22:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

At 10:17 AM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I have started to notice something  about my 928 and I
>thought that I would ask the question and see if it is common.  In my 1986
>928S auto, if I am casually driving along at 20mph or a lower speed and
[snip]
>happened.  How is this controlled on the 928?  Is it a mechanical linkage

This is one of those furrin' cars, isn't it? Though somebody on this list
undoubtedly has the answer to this, I'd imagine this is clearly an off-list
topic!

Now, if you had converted over to a TH400, then maybe we could help you...
(hey, don't laugh! If it's good enough for Jag and Rolls...)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:11:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Cutlass Spotted

With regards to this message, what kind of mailer do you use?  I could=20
not view the message with pine.  It said it had an attachment, which it=20
then said it couldn't handle?  When I hit reply, the message 'appeared'=20
like magic in the reply section.  Where was it before (I usually have NO=20
problems using pine for my mail).  Did anyone else have any problems? =20

BTW -> although oldsmobile consistently makes incredible cars of all=20
types, I would consent that other nice vehicles have been made ('75=20
Impala, any chev truck, misc others, etc..)

On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, joshstrub wrote:

> This is not really a one time spot of  a car.  I actually see it everyday=
 for=20
> about 1 second at a time, I ride a train that is going 70 mph and the car=
 has=20
> not moved in seven months.  This is what I=92ve picked up so far,  I beli=
eve it=20
> is a =9172 Cutlass Convertible, this is because of the tail light configu=
ration=20
> only (split into three parts).  The top is white, moldy brown, and the re=
ar=20
> window is all taped up.  The car has a single exhaust which leads me to=
=20
> believe it was not heavily modified.  The body is a blue and looks to be =
in=20
> good shape,  the interior would make me worry because of the top.  The wh=
eels=20
> are SSII and both rear tires are flat. The car is parked behind a factory=
 but=20
> if any one is interested I would be willing to inquire if the car is for =
sale=20
> as a hole or in parts (I really want an excuse to go look at it). =20
>=20
> I also see a =9167 GTX every day parked and going no where fast.  I know =
the=20
> Mopar S*cks comments are going to come rolling in but I would also like a=
n=20
> excuse to see this car as well.
>=20
> Josh
>=20

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:24:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Breaking timing belt

Wouldn't this sort of clearance give a super-low compression ratio?
I guess I don't understand how there could be a set up that would allow
the motor to survive such a belt failure.
If the valves are open while the pistons are cranking up and down, how do
you prevent them from banging into each other?  Deep valve reliefs in the
pistons?  Could you elaborate on this?
Thanx.

                 Jim Townsend

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Esko Ilola wrote:

> <snip>
> > driven by a timing BELT, not a double roller steel CHAIN.  I  was told
> > that these belts are good for about 45,000-50,000 miles before they give
> > out.  People thrash their turbo machines, unaware that their timing
belt<snip> > > Some engines like those in Opel are designed to survive the
belt breakdown. > The engines have enough clearance in their cylinders to
rotate even if some > of the valves are constantly open. > > > -- >
********************************************** > * Esko Ilola
* > * Email esko.ilola@tele.fi                   * > * X400  G=esko S=ilola
O=tele A=mailnet C=fi * > * Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       * > *
+358 4055 75977                      * > *       +358 9537 430
* > * Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   * > *       01610 VANTAA
* > *       FINLAND                              * >
********************************************** > * Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1964               * > *            Holiday Sports Sedan (4D HT)    * >
********************************************** > > >

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:31:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve cover gasket sealing

Gm themselves recomend silicone for valve covers.I don't know what kind of
silicone products you people have tryed but most ATV silicone such as GM,
or Permatex out perform any other sealant on the market. Silicones range
from 300 To 750 degress F. There is  silicone that won't effect your oxygen
sensors. Ask your local dealers and read the labels. I work in a industrial
area that has proven silicone over and over.Don't use silicone on carbs,
auto trans (except pan gasket, carefully). High temp ATV silicone is the
best on the end of intake manifolds, manual trans,diffs, and water pumps.
If you read the Locktite book it out performs most of their products on
antifreeze and oil. Its just like anything else , read instructions,  you
can apply too much of just about  anythingand plug ports gallerys etc. Most
racers even use silicone on exausts to prevent gases from excaping , though
it doesn't last forever, it out performs anything else.
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:47:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing Again

Vacum advance was designed for heavy autos, hills and loads the auto would
indure. Find a recomended curve and dial it up the factory recommended way.
Then do the old fashion way, loosen your distributor slightly and do some
full throttle runs and advance your distributor untill it pings, then back
it off. You have just found max. advance. If it runs good ,  leave it. If
it starts poorly, make sure your vacum adv. is hooked to a port on your
carb that doesn't open until part throttle. Most distributors have a tab in
them that can be tailored to limit max. advance.
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:53:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

Mosts autos that kick down electrically are hard to adjust without going
into the valve body itself.(eg. manual valve bodies) There is a trick I
have used before. Put a piece of hose around the electric switch post that
contacts your linkage to allow it to hit earlier than it did before.
scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: Death <dldeathe@mail.pittstate.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:59:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

>
>  and I need some help
> choosing a muffler.
> would like something that will last and sound good, but not loud.  >

Have you thought about 24 inch glasspacks
they are not expensive and not particularly loud.

Also, they have a nice deep rumble. :)

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:01:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

I am interested in parts. 1964 olds cutlass F-85 conv. I live in British
Columbia, Canada. How would we arange payment and shipping? Contact me at;
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:06:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 3.3 vs. 3.8 v-6's

> rpm and torque was reached at something like 3400. The hp (roughly the same)
> in the 3.8 was reached at about 2000 rpm lower. The torque was reached at a
> much lower rpm too. The 3.3 looks like a revver while the 3.8 looks like

Which vintage 3.8 were you comparing the figures to?  As I recall, peak
power on '89 and up 3800's occurs close to 5000 rpm.  Those V6's have a
very broad torque curve.  It is interesting to compare 2 recent engines,
the Gen III 3800, and Toy*ta's 3.0L V6.  GM's engine is lighter, cheaper
to build, has smaller external dimensions, produces similar horsepower but
more torque, all with 2 fewer valves per cylinder and cast-iron
construction, offers comparable smoothness, AND gets better fuel economy
(better torque production in the RPM range where most driving will occur).
Despite an OHV design, the Gen III 3800 can easily rev to 6000 rpm.  There
was a last minute change which resulted in the Olds Intrigue receiving
this engine in place of the 3.4L DOHC V6.  Hopefully, GM's next generation
"short North" V6's will offer comparable low-end torque despite their
multi-valve configuration.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <FBoerger@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:50:57 -0400
Subject: RE: 4-4-2 vs. W-30 (was somthing about orignal paint)

Dave Wyatt said:

>You don't see G.T.O. guys
>faking Judges all the time, although some do.

Boy, I don't know, the guys with '65-67 LeMans' used to like to convert to
GTO's !!

Frank Boerger//Tallahassee/FL

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:21:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Problem Downshifting to 1st In 86 Auto

Or you can do like I did and instead of wiring the switch to the gas
pedal, wire it to a toggle switch somewhere where you can reach it.  H*ll,
I can kick in my passing gear while idleing in drive (of course it doesn't
do anything then).  IMHO, it makes for much easier use, much more control,
and it makes people think you've got nitrous... :-)

I simply flick the switch to kick into passing gear, and flick it back to
kick it out.  Easy to install, and cheap...

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Jo-Anne Hillier wrote:

> Mosts autos that kick down electrically are hard to adjust without going
> into the valve body itself.(eg. manual valve bodies) There is a trick I
> have used before. Put a piece of hose around the electric switch post that
> contacts your linkage to allow it to hit earlier than it did before.
> scott
> kozhill@titanlink.com
>
>

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:45:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing Again (Vacuum Advance)

> Nothwithstanding the fact that a 260 is likely to blow up at 4465 rpm how
> in the world can it require 30 deg advance at part throtttle.?

Under light loads/throttle, the intake charge velocity is lower and has
less mass, therefore, it burns more slowly in the combustion chamber.  For
peak efficiency under these conditions, it is necessary to ignite the
mixture earlier, so that peak cylinder pressures coincide with TDC.  At
heavier throttle, when the intake charge is greater and cylinder pressures
are higher, less advance can be tolerated.  In other words, vacuum advance
units are used only for improved fuel economy, making better use of the
air/fuel mixture under light load conditions.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:02:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Breaking timing belt (non-interference engines)

> Wouldn't this sort of clearance give a super-low compression ratio?
> I guess I don't understand how there could be a set up that would allow
> the motor to survive such a belt failure.

Most North American designed engines are "free-wheeling", meaning that the
pistons will not contact the valves in the event of a timing chain/belt
related failure.  Even high compression engines can be free-wheeling, and
since providing recesses in piston tops for clearance has its limits, I'd
say combustion chamber design also plays a role.

Does anyone know when GM stopped using the plastic-covered timing chain
gears on 3800's, or other OHV V8's for that matter?  My mechanic friend
has seen numerous 3800's with bent valves after the chain jumped a couple
teeth.  The 3.8L used to be a non-interference engine, but now it seems
there's a chance that valve damage can occur.  He's also seen a
non-interference engine (Ch*v smallblock, not modified) bend a couple
valves when the timing chain slipped; I can only guess that this was due
to carbon buildup.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:15:52 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Follow the Guidelines Please!

Geez, I get sick for a few days and all hell breaks loose here!
<sneeze, hack, cough, wheeze, sniffle>

The last few days we've had some name-calling of certain brands, some
personal transactions and parts swapping, some foreign car questions, and
an attempt to post pictures. All of the above are not permitted on the
list. Please cease and desist.

For the edification of all, here is a repost of the list guidelines.
Please follow them. The way this virus I've got makes me feel, my good
humor is in short supply right now so I'm likely to not be very tolerant
of this sort of stuff if it continues. Enough said.

Oldsmobile Mailing List

Discussion Guidelines:

To post a message to the list, send email to:

oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

All postings should be Oldsmobile-related in some way. Net etiquette is
strongly encouraged at all times and the list is intended to be
self-managing. Postings are unmoderated and therefore the list requires
members to be responsible and courteous in what they post. Personal
discussions, "flames", profanity, or excessively commercial posts will not
be permitted. Violations of these guidelines will result in two private
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party being removed from the list. Any instance of overt mailbombing,
abuse or profanity shall result in immediate removal from the list. All
such actions shall be solely at the discretion of the list administrator.

Members who disagree with the appropriateness of a posting should first
contact the other party by private email and make their views known
directly. Please use courtesy, respect and discretion in any such
discussions. Public embarassment of any member via the list is not
permitted. Remember, the Olds list exists for both informative and
entertainment purposes and is intended to be enjoyable for all.

Follow-up discussions should only quote relevant passages of the original
posting. The daily volume of messages requires members to be responsible
in removing unnecessary text from follow-ups to efficiently use net
resources. Similarly, repetitive or "me too" postings are to be
discouraged.

Due to the nature of the list software, large individual postings cannot
be handled. Therefore members should not attempt to post graphics, sound
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instead be posted if distribution is desired, and mailings can be made by
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email.

A Frequently-Asked-Questions (FAQ) list is available. New members are
strongly encouraged to request and review the FAQ before posting. The FAQ
is available at ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds, http://www.442.com, and
http://www.en.com/users/thall/.


Membership Management:

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Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Tilt wheel, or not

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Dan Bennett wrote:

> Can a tilt wheel sterring column from a '67 cutlass fit a '72?  Will the
> steering wheel alone fit on my '72?  thanks for any,all help.
> --
> Dan  Bennett
> '72 Cutlass Supreme

Don't think so. The '67 had no ignition switch on the column so the
mechanism in the "bowl" area is very different, and the '67 hub is much
smaller than the '72. Sorry.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:21:41 -0400
Subject: 442 W-30 Pics

Hey if anyone is interested, I have several pics of the 1970 442 W-30
Convert. I am trying to sell.  The pics are of the Danbury Mint Co. doing
field dimensions.

If you are interested, let me know, and I will private email you them back

Thanks

T Cleeton
tcleeton@mcmsys.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:20:58 -0400
Subject: Re: found '61 starfire

On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, joshstrub wrote:
> I've found a 1961 Starfire convertible with the full drive line.  Not
running > because sitting more than ten years.  The top is shot and all crome
has been > removed.  Both quarters have a lot of rust and so do the front
fenders.  Frame > is solid.  The guy wants $700 for it, is this reasonable.

These are very valuable cars when they're restored, but is this one too
far gone for that? The chrome is very hard to come by, you've got a rust
problem, and if the top is shot how good can the interior be? From your
description it sounds almost like a parts car. Of course, around here,
$700 is what you'd pay for a parts car anyway.... if there were any to be
had in the first place (which there aren't!).

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª571
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