To:	"DDA.RFC-822=oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca/P=ABTLAB/A=ABTLAB/C=US" @ 
SSWGATE
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #549


oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 5 March 1997      Volume 01 : Number 549

Re: Olds Enthusist booklet
Gravity bleeding
Re: T-3's
Re: Wiper adjustment
64 Vista Cruiser
Re:
Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
OLDS Chat on IRC -- Tues & Wend at 7pm Central
[none]
Re: 100th Ann. Info & more
Re: Spring is near and Oldsmobiles are blooming
Re: 64 Vista Cruiser
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Olds 455 in '79 T/A
Re: 1970 Cutlass
Re: T-3's
Re: 442 W-Dirty
ªOLDSMOBILE on DALnet
how much to weld in new floor pans?
Re: 1970 rear cutlass bumper
Re: 100th Ann. Info & more
Re: Crank swap
My input on the balancing thread (was High RPM Stress)-long
Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)
HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)
10.46 sec. GN.?  Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)
RE: Parts for sale
Re: 7.5" rear end build up
Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)
Re: 10.46 sec. GN.?  Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)
Re: Olds 455 in '79 T/A
Re: Parts for sale
Re: 10.46 sec. GN.? Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)
Re: Turbos & Heat
Re: My input on the balancing thread (was High RPM Stress)-long
Re: 10.46 sec. GN.? Hmmm... Fbody-- 200R4
Bolt preload
Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds istoday)
Re: What's an EFI intake cost
Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds istoday)
Re: What's an EFI intake cost
Parts: Big Block Exhaust Manifolds
Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)
1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please
Surreptitious subscriptions (was Re: )
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please
Re: HP/torque comparisons - 200-4R torque capacity?
Need a 200,000 mile plaque (eg Mercedes) for my wife's Cutlass Cierra
ADMIN: Buying and Selling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:06:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Enthusist booklet

Jonah Kadish wrote:
>
> I' would like the free book thanks!!!!
> Jonah Kadish
> 3361 S. Wabash
> Chi, Il
> 60616
>
> On Mon, 3 Mar 1997 OldsHeidi@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I know it has been sometime since I last posted but I am still on the
digest. > >  My team of 4 downsized to a team of 2 so things here have been a
bit > > overwhelming keeping up with email and digest :-)   So if any of you
have any > > questions for me please post to the list and send me a copy it
will get read > > quicker (I'm a little behind in my digest reading *blush,
shuffle*) > > I have registration forms for the centennial celebration along
with a time > > line of events and  happenings. > > For those who have
recently joined the Olds list I also still have plenty of > > the Oldsmobile
Enthusiast booklets that I would be happy to send out.  This > > book offers
sources for hard to find parts and restration services.  It's > > free for a
name and mailing address.  When you email me please put "Olds > > Enthusiast"
in the subject line. > > > > Well, that's it for now.  Please don't hestitate
to let me know if you have a > > question or a concern and again I apologize
if I have missed any messages. > > > > Sincerely, > > Heidi Magyar > >
Oldsmobile Division > > Oldsheidi@aol.com > > > > > > You have not changed
your default password.  Please login to http://netaddress.usa.net/ to start
using NetAddress > >

Heidi, I'd love to receive the booklet you mentioned.  My address is:

Wayne Schwartz
6 Windsor Terrace
Port Colborne Ontario L3K 4C6

owner of 69 442 convertible

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:13:49 -0400
Subject: Gravity bleeding

>I still used a
>combination of gravity and vacuum pump bleeding.

Hey Bob,

How do you gravity bleed?  Just open the bleeder screws and let it drip out?
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:17:12 -0400
Subject: Re: T-3's

>I still think it's dumb.  Hopefully the repro T-3's will shed a little more
>light than the 30 year old used ones out there.  They have to.  But they
>still won't match the output of halogens.

Here's an idea -- why doesn't someone make a halogen headlamp that looks
like the T-3?  I'd probably buy those.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:18:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

>When did they start keying the wiper?

Dunno.  My '69 is keyed.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:27:40 -0400
Subject: 64 Vista Cruiser

Jim,

The Body Information Plate info you posted from your '64 Vista Cruiser
decodes as follows:

STYLE 64-3265 - 64 is the model year, 3265 is the series and body style,
with the 3200 series being the F-85 Cutlass and 65 referring to the station
wagon body style, custom 3-seat.

BODY LA 3372 - I believe this is a code for the body sequential production
number, but I could be incorrect.

TRIM 398 - are you sure this isn't mistyped, and should actually read
"938"?  If so, that would jive with what Paul said earlier in that your
car's interior color was/is "saddle."  The fabric was/is "morocceen."

PAINT R-R - the "upper" and "lower" colors on your car were/are "cashmere
beige," which, again, I believe is what Paul has already said.


By the way, the original base price of your car was $3,270, and it was the
most expensive station wagon offered by Oldsmobile that year.  It was the
highest production station wagon series that year, with the total
production for your car's series (3265, the 1964 3-seat Custom Vista
Cruiser Station Wagon) being 7,286.  This was more popular than the
two-seat version of the Custom Vista Cruiser, of which only 3,320 were
made.  These figures do not include Vista Cruisers that were not Cutlasses.
 There were both two-seat and three-seat Vista Cruiser station wagons that
were merely F-85s.  Production of the 2-seat F-85 Vista Cruiser for 1964
was 1,305, and for the 3-seat F-85 Vista Cruiser, it was 2,089.  There were
also several station wagon models (F-85's and F-85 Deluxe's) that were not
Vista Cruisers.  I can post those production figures, too, if you're
interested.


Dan


************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:41:22 -0400
Subject: Re:

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> ...seem to have gotten themselves on by circuitous means--in other
> words they didn't do it intentionaly.

Kinda hard to belive that they did it by accident.  Since I've shared the
administrative duties for the Toro List with Dave Voorhis, I know a
little bit about this.

You can't accidentially subscribe.  Period.  First, you must send a
message to "majordomo" at (@) the domain name in question.  Second, you
must send a message test of "subscr*be list name", such as "oldsmobile"
or "toro-digest".

Finally, majordomo will not allow one email addres to subscr*be another.
If you try, the message is bounced to the list administrator for
resolution.

So while I agree we should let them loose whenever they request it, I
wouldn't feel badly at all that they've swamped thenselves with email.
It is a self-inflicted injury.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> At 02:05 AM 3/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Anyone out there try silicone brake fuild?
> >
> >I am doing a frame off resto. The car will not be driven much except to
> >show and limited street driving.
> >
> >I've heard varying reports, like it doesn't seal well, doesn't stop well,
> >etc only advantage is it doesn't retain water.
> >
> >What's been your experience???
> >
> >Any brand preferences?
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >
> The military has gone to it 100%  A few years ago, however, I was talking on
> the phone to tech people at Wagner brake, and they said do not use it under
> any circumstances.  It attacks rubber.  You cnanot be sure that your brake
> system does not have rubber parts in it; so came their recomendation.
>
> The Wiz

Folks,

When the military converted to silicone brake fluid, all we did was
flush the brake systems on all types of vehicles, without replacing any
parts.  This includes the old (MFG early 60's) 2 1/2  and 5 ton trucks.
We did not have any problems.  Also, silicone brake fluid does not
attack paint like the standard brake fluid does.

John Foster

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:53:23 -0400
Subject: OLDS Chat on IRC -- Tues & Wend at 7pm Central

Just a reminder to join the Olds chat on Dalent on Tue and Thur at 7pm
central.  Just join the channel : /OLDSMOBILE.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: chray@Logical.Net
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:16:36 -0400
Subject: [none]

subscribe oldsmobile-digest

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:38:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Ann. Info & more

In a message dated 97-03-04 10:21:53 EST, you write:

> Hello Paul,
>
>  There are some awards for people and cars but there will be no "judging"
at
> this even.  Some special awards may go to cars, such as Governor's Choice,
> ect....  The first 2500 registrants of Oldsmobiles will be guaranteed a
> Special Goodie Bag.  (I do not know what will be in the bag... so I can't
> help you there)  There will be tours of the Lansing plant that produces the

> Achieva,  Grand Am, & Skylark.  Bob Jarboe can answer any specific tour
times
> for you at 1-517-885-1747.
>
>  Sincerely,
>  Heidi

Everybody

Above is Heidi's response to my post yesterday concerning tours and
Participation Awards.  Am I insane, or am I and my chapter members the only
folks who were left with the impression that there would be no judging, but
in it's place would be a Participation Award for every car in the field?
 Maybe we need to contact our club Presidents and ask them what happened
here.

Heidi

Please do some intense research on this matter.  This issue is going to
affect whether or not a lot of our chapter' cars will be going to Lansing.
 While I have not taken the time to find the article in question, I know that
it appeared in our JWO newsletter that there would be participation awards to
all entrants, in place of judging.  While I am not a trophy monger, I am
extremely disappointed that there will be no remembrance of my taking my
Oldsmobile "home" other than a goodie bag.  I can go across town for one of
those, and only pay $8-10.  There are going to many others, at least in my
chapter, that are going to be just as upset, if not more so.  This is
something that thought Olds would do a really first class job on, too.

Oldsmobile is inviting us to drive hundreds to thousands of miles in a
valuable classic (in our eyes) car, put up with the mob of people, fight all
the extra traffic, leave that valuable car on a field (of which we have no
idea at this time where that will be located) and take a shuttle back and
forth between the hotel, or drive a chase car if you'd be able to find
parking.  And pay $25 to do all that, so that you can have the publicity for
an anniversary that you don't even care to advertise to the general public at
this point.  I'm not generally a "what's in it for me" person, but for all
that I think the
Oldsmobile is going to stay home in the garage and I'll take the Monte Carlo
that I can park at the hotel every night and won't have to fight with the
insurance company if I'm involved in accident.  There doesn't seem to be a
whole lot of incentive here.

I'm afraid this all came across as rather harsh.  I didn't mean it to be.  A
year ago I was so excited about this anniversary I thought I'd bust.  Now I'm
thinking maybe I should stay home and visit Lansing sometime when there's
less comotion going on.

Everybody

Am I alone in my thinking on this subject?  Please tell me what you think.

Paul Hartlieb
Blue/Gray Chapter

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Spring is near and Oldsmobiles are blooming

In a message dated 97-03-03 23:50:53 EST, you write:

> The only sedan offered 72 in any of the brouchers I have is a F-85 4 door
>  sedan. 350 or 455 engine only. No sixes.

Sorry, my '72 sales brochure lists a Cutlass S Sports Coupe as being
available in '72, alongside the Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe.  Sports Coupe is the
post 2-door model, right?  Also, salesman's SPECS book says the 442 option
was available for either Cutlass S coupe.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:38:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 Vista Cruiser

In a message dated 97-03-04 14:07:32 EST, you write:

> Oldsmobile div. General Motors Corp.
>                    05A   Lansing, Michigan
>               STYLE  64-3265          BODY LA 3372
>               TRIM   398              PAINT R-R
>               ACC.   G

05A means it was built the first week (A) of May (05)

G was the option code in '62 for windshield washers, but they went to three
character codes in '63, don't know what that is

everything else we told you yesterday.

Paul

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

Jim
  I have that one coming from Bill and if I like it I will take 20 (twenty)
This is only to help you get the 50, otherwise I would take 10 pieces I will
let you know



Everett

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:55:33 -0400
Subject: Olds 455 in '79 T/A

Interesting note from AOL forum.  An Olds 455 in a Pontiac T/A??  You can
E-mail this person direct at CommandrCH@aol.com

Steve

Subj:  gears
Date:  97-03-04 02:34:08 EST
From:  CommandrCH

Just a quick question.  I have a '79 Limited Edition T/A with a 1970 Old's
455, a 4 speed Hurst shifter and a posi rear end.  My question is what
would be the best gears to run with this configuration?  Thanks in advance
for your help.

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:07:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 Cutlass

> > Does anyone know where I can get a neutral safety switch for a 1970
> > Cutlass which is equipted with a Hurst Dual/Gate Shifter. I have tried
> > many sources and haven't found any leads.

    Didn't these cars use a backdrive linkage which would use the existing
switch and park/lock utilities of the steering column?    When I converted
my '72 CS to floor shift I used a shift bracket (part that mounts on the
tranny) from a Camaro (gasp!) which allowed this to happen.

> > Thank-you, Mark

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:10:59 -0400
Subject: Re: T-3's

On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> I still think it's dumb.  Hopefully the repro T-3's will shed a little more
> light than the 30 year old used ones out there.  They have to.  But they
> still won't match the output of halogens.

    I wonder what a T3 with a halogen bulb implanted in it would do for
light?  Probably pretty good, but it would be hard to convince any
manufacturer to make them in limited quantities.

> Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
> '67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
> Oviedo, FL

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-Dirty

> I have heard of such horror stories.  Now I know they are not just stories.
>
> Brad Otto

I'll tell you one of mine. About five years ago I saw an ad in the local
advertiser for a '70 W-30 for $8,000. I skipped over it because A, I
already had a W-30 and B, I didn't have eight grand. Then, six months
later a very similar ad appeared except the price was $6,000. To make a
long story short, the ads kept returning for lower and lower asking
prices. Finaly, when it got down to four thousand I called the guy and
went to look at it. This is what I found. It was a '70 4-4-2. There was
a curious hole in the passenger side fender that looked like a antena
mount. The interior was redone in purple velure <sp> which, coupled with
being non a/c made the effect rather pungent. Under the hood was devoid
of any W machinations. The owner swore up and down that the Edlebrock
corp made the intakes for Olds and that G heads were the correct ones
for that year. It did have red inner fenders though. The rear and
quarter glass had designs etched in it. As you might guess, I did not
buy this car. If it was a real W-30 there wasn't enough original to
justify the price. BTW it was sebring yellow like about three thousand
other W-30s :)

Danny

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:23:19 -0400
Subject: ªOLDSMOBILE on DALnet

What's the deal?  I log on @ 10 and everyone is gone!
Does everyone have early bedtimes?

Just wondering......<:-(

I'll try again and maybe find a buyer for my 70 442 W-30 Convert.

See ya later (If you stay up that late!)

T Cleeton

tcleeton@mcmsys.com

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:18:08 -0400
Subject: how much to weld in new floor pans?

I just got my 75 H/O out of hibernation yesterday and was surprised how
easily  the car started. Ran as smooth as can be. Anyways I need to get my
floor pans welded in. The whole interior is gutted, only bare metal is in
there. How much should I expect to pay if I take the car to a body shop and
have my 4 new floor pans welded in?  The current floor is like a potato
chip:) All you gotta do is lightly step on it and it crumbles into many
pieces;(
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25..currently in pieces.....

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:36:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 rear cutlass bumper

Hi Stephen
  I have an NOS 70 front bumper $450.00 plus freight, I also have a rechromed
straight front bumper for $150.00 plus shipping. Only problem the rechrome
was on a car for two weeks and a small peel started in the center up near the
hood tongue. I had another one rechromed by another place and gave that one
to my customer and the original plater would not honor his warranty. The
bumper is real nice and the peel is very hard to detect.
  I will send a picture if you want. UPS is $20.00 for shipping


Everett

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:29:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Ann. Info & more

At 10:38 PM 3/4/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Everybody
>
>Above is Heidi's response to my post yesterday concerning tours and
>Participation Awards.  Am I insane, or am I and my chapter members the only
>folks who were left with the impression that there would be no judging, but
>in it's place would be a Participation Award for every car in the field?
> Maybe we need to contact our club Presidents and ask them what happened
>here.
>
>Heidi
>
>Please do some intense research on this matter.  This issue is going to
>affect whether or not a lot of our chapter' cars will be going to Lansing.
> While I have not taken the time to find the article in question, I know that
>it appeared in our JWO newsletter that there would be participation awards to
>all entrants, in place of judging.  While I am not a trophy monger, I am
>extremely disappointed that there will be no remembrance of my taking my
>Oldsmobile "home" other than a goodie bag.


Paul,

I think you're mistaken here and are upset about nothing.  As I understand,
each participant (up to the first 2500 registered) get a goodie bag, but
it's not your typical goodie bag at the local cruise-in containing a few
stickers and pens.  I don't know the particulars, but there will some sort
of commemorative plaque for each participant, which is what you're calling
the "participation award", and I think the goodie bag will contain some
sort of video and so forth.  There will not be judging, but as Heidi says,
there will be a few cars selected for special awards.


Dan



************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:51:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Crank swap

In a message dated 97-02-27 20:41:43 EST, you write:

<< Really?  I put a harmonic balancer from a junkyard '67 330 on my 350 a
year
 and a half ago when I did the main and rod bearings, because the old one on
 my 350 was coming apart.  I had to get one in a hurry (only had the weekend
 to work on the car), and all I could find was that one.  Will it cause harm
 to my engine?

 --
 Dave Paulison >>

If you've been running the car, I think you would have found out by now.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:51:29 -0400
Subject: My input on the balancing thread (was High RPM Stress)-long

In a message dated 97-02-27 20:07:47 EST, you write:

<< This thread has become very interesting.  This makes it sound like an
engine
 that is balanced at 10,000 RPM would stay in balance all the way down to 0.
 But an engine that was balanced at say 5000 would also stay in balance down
 to 0, but will probably go out as the ROM increases.

 The Wiz >>

We balance our cutting tools that we sell, and have a small balancing machine
in house.  You are correct in your observations.  An item balanced to say...
10,000 is still balanced at say... 5,000, and in fact, would be in balance at
5,000 than an item that was balanced at 5,000 (I'll explain in a minute, bear
with me for a sec.).  An item balanced at 5,000 may very well not hold
together at 10,000, and probably wouldn't for extended periods of time.

As for what I said earlier ("more in balance" statement), it is basically
this.

When you balance to the higher RPM, you are performing "finer" measurements,
in that you must have the part balanced very good, which requires a higher
degree of balance.  Thus if you work backwards, when you are at 5,000, you
are going to be better balanced than a part DONE at 5,000, because the
precision isn't required as much to balance at the lower RPM.

Hopefully I didn't lose anybody there.

I'm not sure what happens when you are balancing engine parts, and what RPM's
you balance at, since you have problems with spinning mass, etc. when you
start turning that fast.  It may just be that for the most part you wouldn't
balance up to say... 10,000, even though you may turn it on the track, etc..
 You balance it up to say 5,000, and figure that would be the closest you are
going to get in terms of balance.  You may also find that these figures are
all the better you NEED to balance it anyways, since what you gain in a
better balance job becomes negligible in gains.

One other thing, while I'm thinking of it.  In terms of a gas engine where
you have forces acting upon the rotating mass, you may not be any better off
with the better balance since the minute you put it in the car and start it,
and find say... one cylinder working more than others, you are already back
out of balance anyways.  Hmmm....  this'll consume some brain power for a
while.....

Just some thoughts to kepp all of you up at night thinking Olds. thoughts....
  :)

Chris (not so balanced) Ruper

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)

> I know it's not an Olds, but we've lost yet another RWD car... Too bad.
>
> Ryan Hehn
> ryanh@docker.com

I hate to see th T-bird go but I would rather it die than become another
rice burner wanna-be. Ford tried to do that to the Mustang a few years ago
and the pony guys (and gals) raised so much hell they left it RWD ......
for now anyway.  I wonder how many people that complain about the changes
the big 3 are makeing have one of the FWD 4 valve ohc aluminum head jelly
bean looking things in their drive? If everyone would quit buying them they
would quit makeing them. The only thing around my house that can pull it
self with its front wheels is my 82 Blazer. Please forgive me Quad 4 guys
Walter
56 Belair 2d/ht
65 PU
66 88 ragtop
67 Dodge Charger
67 Cougar
79 GMC van
82 Blazer full size 4wd

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:51:21 -0400
Subject: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)

In a message dated 97-02-27 21:28:52 EST, you write:

<< Jason Labay wrote:
 >
 > At 10:26 PM 2/26/97 -0400, prlmteed@idcnet.com wrote:
 > >Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?
 >
 > Well if it can stand all the power from a GN Turbo Buick V6 I don't see
why
 > not.....?

 For be it for me to spread dissent or start arguments...but, how much
 HP/torque does a b*ick t*rbo v6 put out compared to the 455 Olds?

 Danny
  >>

I dunno on the actual number, and it will depend on what 455 you pick (high
HP?, etc.).  The HP figures are going to be the closest in this comparison
(if that's what you'd call it, more like a "stomping" I would think), and I
would think the 455 wins there.  As far as torque is concerned, the 455 is
gonna tear that v6 up pretty good.  The 455 is a stump puller, the v6 is a
high RPM motor.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:51:24 -0400
Subject: 10.46 sec. GN.?  Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)

In a message dated 97-02-27 23:14:31 EST, you write:

<< >For be it for me to spread dissent or start arguments...but, how much
 >HP/torque does a b*ick t*rbo v6 put out compared to the 455 Olds?

 I am not sure. Stock I think the torque is in the 300 range. I am just going
 by two cars that I know of around me. One 87 GN runs 10.46@123 in the 1/4
 with the only mod to the tranny being a shift kit, rest is stock internals.
 Other is an 86 T-Type running 11.24@118, this on a totally stock tranny with
 86,000 miles as of last summer. Those engines have to be putting out a good
 amount of torque to post those e.t's and trap speeds. I don't know, I could
 be totally off the mark it  has happened once before:)
 - - - - - - - - - - -
 Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) >>

Hmmm...  I know the GN's were fast and all, but that doesn't sound right...
(10.46's on a totally stock car with nothing more than a trans kit in
it?.....)  You're talking some awfully steep numbers here for just about any
stock car (no less one of these flying shoeboxes, as fast as they may be... )
 It sounds like there is something else done to that car than what you're
saying.  Anybody got an idea what some of the faster 1/4 mile new cars are
doing these days?

Ok., after some digging, I found something worthwhile here....

Hot Rod Mag., August 1986  Car Test

1986 Pontiac Trans-Am, 305 cid motor, 205 h.p. at 4400 RPM, 270 ft-lbs.
torque at 3200 RPM, car weight-3487 lbs.

1/4 mile time - (drumroll please...) 16.23 sec. @ 87 mph.  (0-60 in 8.2 sec.)

(one other note here, they tested an '86 Toyota Supra here too, 200 HP @ 6000
RPM, 185 ft-lbs. torque @ 4800 RPM, 3550 lbs. weight, 15.6 sec. @ 89 mph. in
1/4 mi., 0-60 in 7.6 sec.)

Granted, this is the Trans-Am, and not the GN, and the GN had better times.
 BUT.....  You're talking quite a step up from this to 10.46's, in a car that
I'm sure weighs in around the same.  I have some doubts as to that car being
as stock as is said.

Chris Ruper

BTW, maybe someone can use their math skills to figure out what kind of HP it
would take to put this T/A into the 10's.  Based on the numbers Hot Rod has
given.

------------------------------

From: "Dan Miller" <Dsm137@msn.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:55:49 -0400
Subject: RE: Parts for sale

- ----------
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of Dan Bennett
Sent: Friday, February 28, 1997 1:09 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Parts for sale

Dan Miller wrote:
>
> ----------
> From:   oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of James & Joanne Chermack
> Sent:   Sunday, February 23, 1997 9:49 PM
> To:     oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:        Re: Parts for sale
>
> Hi there again!!,
>
>        Want to know about the ' 67 wheel covers. If they are good I would
love
> to buy them!!! Send me some info at:
>
>                                 dsm137@gti.net
>
>                                 Thanks ,Dan.


Dan, that '67 I located in the junk yard has a complete set of
wheel covers available.  Let me know.
- --
Dan Bennett
'72 Cutlass Supreme


Hey Dan,

If those are in good shape let me know and I would be willing to get them if
they are reasonable. Its a damn shame That I don't have my old cars of my
youth any longer, I had two 1972 Cutlass' when I was younger. Unfortunately,
one ended up around a pole, and the other on a local police station
lawn........those days are gone. The one I had was a fast one, had put on two
four barrels on the high rise manifold, only because I got the Idea from my
brothers 1964 GTO, which had the six pack in it. Well any way, Let me know
about the wheel covers, I need to do something with my ' 67, which amazingly
enough, I tend to drive like an " old man " these days!!!!!

babblin' tonight!
      Dan.
      1967 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

From: Matt Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:16:52 -0400
Subject: Re: 7.5" rear end build up

Andy Geeting wrote:
<snip>
> good limited slip unit? Any suggestions on what kind? Also plan on changing
> to 3.73:1 rear gears. Will these be fairly good on gas mileage with the
> overdrive tranny? What is the ratio I have now?

Andy,
  I have an '86 442 with the 3.73 rear end TH200-4R combo. (no anti-spin
tho.. :-(  )  I just filled up today..got 200 miles on 16 gallons so
about 12.5 on this tank.  And that's all stop and go city type driving
with little highway...hmm..well maybe about 50 miles highway this
tank...looking back at my spreadsheet (yes, I punch the numbers from my
mileage book into Excel...) my range is about 10.5 all the way up to
17.5 (that was ALL highway..)...hmm, maybe it's time to replace the O2
sensor..

Hope this helps...

- ---Matt
86 442

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:31:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)

At 11:34 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> I know it's not an Olds, but we've lost yet another RWD car... Too bad.
>
>I hate to see th T-bird go but I would rather it die than become another
>rice burner wanna-be. Ford tried to do that to the Mustang a few years ago
[snip]
>would quit makeing them. The only thing around my house that can pull it
>self with its front wheels is my 82 Blazer. Please forgive me Quad 4 guys

Well, those Quad4 guys are pretty forgiving, but the Toro owners just had a
meeting, and we want the 425 from your 88 ragtop as ransom (or else you'll
have some indentations from some *very* heavy FWD cars all across the roof
of that van of yours...)

;)

BTW, while I'm not necessarily biased against FWD, I do miss the passing of
affordable good-performing RWD cars. AND since the '78 Electra in my yard is
our "new" car, I think I probably fall into the category of people who would
rather spend $15,000 on a *couple* nice vintage 442's than on a *single* V-6
current-model Cutlass sedan. Who needs absolute reliability, when you've got
backups!

Bob Barry
'78 Buick Electra (409ci Olds SMALL-block powered)
'69 Toronado (a car as green as you've ever seen)
'70 Cutlass Supreme SX (hey, I'm *working* on it...)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:16 -0400
Subject: Re: 10.46 sec. GN.?  Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)

At 12:51 AM 3/5/97 -0400, CRuper1@aol.com wrote:

>
>Hmmm...  I know the GN's were fast and all, but that doesn't sound right...
>(10.46's on a totally stock car with nothing more than a trans kit in
>it?.....)

When I said stock I meant the tranny and such. The engine has lots o mods
(bigger turbo, larger intercooler, internal engine work, etc.) I know he had
the block bored out and had the bottom end stiffened.

>Granted, this is the Trans-Am, and not the GN, and the GN had better times.
> BUT.....  You're talking quite a step up from this to 10.46's, in a car that
>I'm sure weighs in around the same.  I have some doubts as to that car being
>as stock as is said.

Yea, that 86 T/A was a real dog. The 89 Turbo Trans Am had the Buick GN
engine with better heads, turbo and intercooler and was good for 13.1 to
13.3 in the 1/4 in stock form. It has the 200 4-R I believe.

>BTW, maybe someone can use their math skills to figure out what kind of HP it
>would take to put this T/A into the 10's.  Based on the numbers Hot Rod has
>given.

Well we have someone on the f-body list that *claims* to have a 633 hp
(dynoed) LT1 (block bored to 383) that has run some 11.21's at 123 with 1.90
60 foot times on a 4L60E tranny with a Trans-Go shift kit as the only mod to
it. (the 4L60E is an electronicaly controlled 700R-4 basically) Those times
sound right???
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25..currently in pieces.....

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:35:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 455 in '79 T/A

At 09:55 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Interesting note from AOL forum.  An Olds 455 in a Pontiac T/A??  You can

Not too uncommon of a swap; use the mounts from a 6.6 liter (403-Olds)
powered T/A, and you can have any Olds engine of your wish in a
second-generation Firebird or Camaro. Come to think of it, given the fact
that X-bodies used 350's, pickups came with diesels, and the large FWD cars
at GM were *pioneered* by Olds, is there any body style that you _can't_
swap an Olds engine into?

>Just a quick question.  I have a '79 Limited Edition T/A with a 1970 Old's
>455, a 4 speed Hurst shifter and a posi rear end.  My question is what
>would be the best gears to run with this configuration?  Thanks in advance
>for your help.

Oh, and for his question, I'd say that 3.42's would be more satisfying than
the 2.41's he's probably got now.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Dan Bennett <dbennett@asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:38:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale

Dan Miller wrote:
>
> ----------
> From:   oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of Dan Bennett
> Sent:   Friday, February 28, 1997 1:09 PM
> To:     oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:        Re: Parts for sale
>
> Dan Miller wrote:
> >
> > ----------
> > From:   oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of James & Joanne
Chermack > > Sent:   Sunday, February 23, 1997 9:49 PM > > To:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca > > Subject:        Re: Parts for sale > > > > Hi
there again!!, > > > >        Want to know about the ' 67 wheel covers. If
they are good I would > love > > to buy them!!! Send me some info at: > > > >
dsm137@gti.net > > > >                                 Thanks ,Dan. > > Dan,
that '67 I located in the junk yard has a complete set of > wheel covers
available.  Let me know. > -- > Dan Bennett > '72 Cutlass Supreme > > Hey
Dan, > >         If those are in good shape let me know and I would be
willing to get them if > they are reasonable. Its a damn shame That I don't
have my old cars of my > youth any longer, I had two 1972 Cutlass' when I was
younger. Unfortunately, > one ended up around a pole, and the other on a local
police station > lawn........those days are gone. The one I had was a fast
one, had put on two > four barrels on the high rise manifold, only because I
got the Idea from my > brothers 1964 GTO, which had the six pack in it. Well
any way, Let me know > about the wheel covers, I need to do something with my
' 67, which amazingly > enough, I tend to drive like an " old man " these
days!!!!! > >                                 babblin' tonight! >
Dan. >                               1967 Cutlass Convertible

They are in good condition and have like a 8 inch black insert in the
middle.  I'm not to familiar with pre-1970 stuff, but they are asking
$100.00 for the set (I checked this last weekend)  They also have a
floor console for auto trans, complete and in excellent shape for
$100.00, once again I dont know if this a good price or not, it seems
good.

Dan Bennett
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:46:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 10.46 sec. GN.? Hmmm... (was: 200-4R)

For a 3487 lb car the ET would be approximatly 10.91 with a 530hp engine and
it would be running around 125 mph.

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:52:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbos & Heat

> denser than said air mass, then it would lose or transfer
> heat much more slowly.

Agreed.  Once the engine has warmed up, exhaust gas temperature will be
higher due to reduced heat loss to the warmer passageways.

> Given this information, it would logically dictate
> that much of the energy(heat) supplied by combustion would
> remain to keep the air "charged" or in a state of expansion
> in volume. Furthermore, this would also suggest to me that

There have been a lot of good ideas put forth regarding this topic.
Here is my current understanding: my post earlier today treated a turbo as
a windmill, hence, it disregarded that the turbo provides enough of a
restriction to create backpressure between itself and the engine.  The Jet
engine analogy, as Wiz pointed out, really adds a lot of insight.  In these
gas turbines, the hot gases from combustion act directly on the blades via
nozzles.  The path appears to be far more circuitous for turbocharged
piston-type engines.  Combustion energy spins the engine, some of
this energy is used to force out exhaust gases, and since the turbo is
restrictive, enough backpressure is developed to run the turbine.
I feel that gas expansion as a result of combustion works directly on the
pistons, versus directly on the turbine as in a jet engine.  The heat
build-up between the turbo and engine appears to be a result of the
increased exhaust pressure, which comes from a running engine, which
is a result of rapidly expanding gas from the ignition of air and fuel.
How circular does all of this sound?

> excess heat obtained on the fuels firing in the cylinder.  This means
> that heat is ultimately the source of operation for the turbo charger.

Agreed, Wiz.  Since a supercharger also gets its power from the heat of
combustion, how do the efficiencies of these two methods of forced
induction compare?

While a turbocharger can increase specific output substantially by
allowing for a high volumetric efficiency, I do not think turbocharging
changes the overall efficiency of an engine by significantly utilizing
wasted heat.  If that were the case, this thermodynamic wonder would be
standard on every automobile sold today, as the drive for lower fuel
consumption is prevalent amongst all the manufacturers.  With current
technology, the efficiency of the IC engine has reached a limit, and
automakers have resorted to reducing weight to meet their goals.  I'd
appreciate any comments/corrections!

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:53:11 -0400
Subject: Re: My input on the balancing thread (was High RPM Stress)-long

At 11:51 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
><< This thread has become very interesting.  This makes it sound like an
>engine
> that is balanced at 10,000 RPM would stay in balance all the way down to 0.
> But an engine that was balanced at say 5000 would also stay in balance down
> to 0, but will probably go out as the ROM increases.
>
>10,000 is still balanced at say... 5,000, and in fact, would be in balance at
[snip]
>One other thing, while I'm thinking of it.  In terms of a gas engine where
>you have forces acting upon the rotating mass, you may not be any better off
>with the better balance since the minute you put it in the car and start it,
>and find say... one cylinder working more than others, you are already back
>out of balance anyways.  Hmmm....  this'll consume some brain power for a

I think that a few things are going on here in a reciprocating engine.
First, as to "critical speed", I understand that to refer to the speed at
which the harmonics of the engine combine to create exagerrated forces at a
weak point in the stucture of the engine. There are a lot of forces at work
on a reciprocating engine, what with the parts going up and down, round and
round, never mind the forces from combustion, exhaust and intake strokes.
*And* the vibrations introduced by the valvetrain, balance-shaft (if so
equipped) and accessory systems. When you get all these forces together, and
add them up, you get vectors acting on the crankshaft (to take one
focal-point of the forces; you can use any item of the engine as a point of
reference, actually) in some sort of sine-wave.

Now, you want the crests of this wave to be at the places where the crank is
best supported (the main bearings), and the point where the forces are
cancelling themselves out to be at the weakest portions (the throws). Of
course, these vectors will be three-dimensional, so it is unlikely that any
point of the crank will be absolutely without any forces acting on it
whatsoever.

Now, bad things begin to happen when the crests of this wave fall on the
*weakest* point in the crankshaft; you have the same effect as those French
soldiers marching over the bridge that could support all their weight, but
which was set into vibrating at a "critical frequency" by their marching
in-step, until the laws of wave-motion gave over to the laws of gravity... ;)

In reality, I think that the bottom-end of an internal combustion engine
must be rotated to take the sum of the rotating and reciprocating forces as
much *out* of the equation as possible. Then the bottom-end can be built
primarily to withstand the combustion forces, whether they are even or not.

And, since no engine runs at an *absolutely* constant speed, even if the
critical speed of an automotive engine does fall within its normal operating
range, it's unlikely that anyone would ever run their engine at that speed
more than momentarily.

And yes, the multiples or even fractions of that critical speed would likely
cause the same damage, since some of the crests of the wave would still fall
where there are weak points in the crank.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:59:48 -0400
Subject: Re: 10.46 sec. GN.? Hmmm... Fbody-- 200R4

   This is just a guestimate on that F body car -- i don't know the weight
but assuming it is around 3500 lbs --  with a 633 hp engine it should be
running around 10.30 in the quarter at around 132 mph.
   Given the ET of the car -- assuming a car weight of 3500 lbs the hp works
out to around 490 hp
   Given the MPH of the car -- assuming a weight of 3500 lbs the hp works out
to around 510 hp.
   It's just my opinion that the 490hp and the 510hp figures are more
believable thant the 633ph figure -- given the nature of the engine being a
small block

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:06:21 -0400
Subject: Bolt preload

All,

Here's what I found on the subject of bolt preload.  It's taken from a
textbook called "Mechanical Engineering Design", 5th ed., published by
McGraw-Hill.  Please bear with me.  It might be a bit much in the area
of "technical" lingo, but I hope it makes sense.

Referring to a stress-strain diagram for a good-quality bolt
material[steel]:
"Notice that there is no clearly defined yield point and that the diagram
progresses smoothly up to fracture, which corresponds to the tensile
strength.  This means that no matter how much preload is given the bolt,
it will retain its load-carrying capacity.  This is what keeps the bolt
tight and determines the joint strength.  The pre-tension is the "muscle"
of the joint, and it magnitude is determined by the bolt strength.  If the
full bolt strength is not used in developing pretension, then money is
wasted and the joint is weaker."[p.348]

Sorry, I know it may be difficult to visualize without actually having the
book and diagram in front of you.
To understand what the stress-strain diagram looks like that the text is
referring to,
imagine the left half of a typical Bell curve.  That is pretty much what
the diagram looks like, with the yield range beginning about 3/4 of the
way up on
the curve.  The fracture(breaking) point is at the top.  The vertical axis
is "stress" and the horizontal axis is "strain", or how much the bolt
stretches under the applied stress.  When the bolt reaches the yield
point, it will stretch.  But that's OK because the bolt also cold-hardens
as it stretches, and it's strength increases.

The text goes on to say:
"Good-quality bolts can be preloaded into the plastic range to develop
more strength. Some of the bolt torque used in tightening produces
torsion, which increases the principal tensile stress.  However, this
torsion is held only by the friction of the bolt head and nut; in time it
relaxes and lowers the tension slightly.  Thus, as a rule, a bolt will
either fracture during tightening, or not at all."
(The "plastic" range is the range where the bolt physically deforms, or
stretches.)

Again, I hope I didn't wander too far off into left field, or overkill the
explanation.  I thought a good text would explain better than I could.

Thanx for bearing with me and I hope I didn't stir up too much mud. :)

             Jim Townsend

             '90 Calais

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds istoday)


>
> Well, those Quad4 guys are pretty forgiving, but the Toro owners just had
a
> meeting, and we want the 425 from your 88 ragtop as ransom (or else
you'll
> have some indentations from some *very* heavy FWD cars all across the
roof
> of that van of yours...)


> Ahaa but who could ever say a Toro  a looks like a jelly bean? In my
opinon they are in the same  class as the Cord. The only bad thing I can
say about one of them is that I don't have one.



------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:12:38 -0400
Subject: Re: What's an EFI intake cost

Greg Pruett wrote:
>
> Just got back from a junque yard this afternoon.  Had a question about olds
> multi-point EFI manifolds.  What is one worth.  The guy at the junk yard
> wanted $50 for the manifold and the throttle body.  I thought maybe this was
> kinda steep because the manifold really has no use and I doubt if he's ever
> gonna sell it.  I was thinking maybe $35 and I'm wondering if maybe i'm just
> cheap.  BTW does anyone know how to tell the difference between an aluminum
> EFI intake and cast Iron?  Is maybe the cast Iron one painted and the
> aluminum isn't?  I guess I'll have to take a magnet back to the yard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Pruett
> `72 Vista-Cruiser

I have an aluminum one from a Seville with 350 Olds EFI I will never use
You can have it for free if you pay shipping.
Frank
70 442
71 442 W-30 convt
72 Cutlass S
90 LSC

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:24:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds istoday)

At 01:07 AM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> Well, those Quad4 guys are pretty forgiving, but the Toro owners just had a
>> meeting, and we want the 425 from your 88 ragtop as ransom (or else you'll
>> have some indentations from some *very* heavy FWD cars all across the roof
>> of that van of yours...)
>
> Ahaa but who could ever say a Toro  a looks like a jelly bean? In my
>opinon they are in the same  class as the Cord. The only bad thing I can
>say about one of them is that I don't have one.

*Bing*Bing*Bing*  Your answer is absolutely CORRECT! (as dozens of raised
headlights retract, and thousands of big-block horses poised for battle
slowly burble their beasts back into their garages...)

OK, now spin the wheel and pick another category...

;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:35:36 -0400
Subject: Re: What's an EFI intake cost

> > Just got back from a junque yard this afternoon.  Had a question about
olds > > multi-point EFI manifolds.  What is one worth.  The guy at the junk
yard > > wanted $50 for the manifold and the throttle body.  I thought maybe
this was > > kinda steep because the manifold really has no use and I doubt if
he's ever

    If the injectors are fresh, the fuel rail is intact, and most of the
harness is there it's worth it.

> > cheap.  BTW does anyone know how to tell the difference between an
aluminum > > EFI intake and cast Iron?

    About 40lbs.  ;^)  Visually they're identical, but most of the
aluminium ones I've seen have the paint flaking off, whereas the cast iron
ones still have paint intact.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Chris & Robin Miller <cya442@INETWORLD.NET>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:41:53 -0400
Subject: Parts: Big Block Exhaust Manifolds

Howdy all,

I am looking for a set of exhaust manifolds for my 455, which is in a
'68 442.  Anyone have any or know of any drop me a line!

Thanks,
Chris Miller
cya442@inetworld.net

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:44:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)

jones wrote:
>
> > I know it's not an Olds, but we've lost yet another RWD car... Too bad.
> >
> > Ryan Hehn
> > ryanh@docker.com
>
> I hate to see th T-bird go but I would rather it die than become another
> rice burner wanna-be. <snip>

Ya, but I read that the T-bird may come back in 2000...  How much do you
wanna bet that it'll be based on the Taurus platform?  It's almost like
Ford is taking lessons from the 'new' Olds management.

Oh well, at least they won't get ahead of everyone's favorite car maker!
(who is that again???)

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Mud Lab <dfsval@maracaibo.dowell.slb.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:04:49 -0400
Subject: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please

Hi guys,

I just bought a delta 88 convertible and didn't realise this 24 year old car
(it's a 1973) would take me to such an interesting world: restoration world!
One month ago I didn't know anything about classics, oldsmobile and delta 88s!
(I am french and just moved to the States)
But I'm learning... And I need cooperation!
I'm now trying to have the engine taken care of. Though it runs great, what
would you consider checking and changing right away?
Then I'm curious about tires: I have some 235 7? x 15 on it. I checked my
owner's manual and it says H78 x 15. What is the equivalence in metric size?
Where can I find such tires, and corresponding wheel hubcaps?
Finally if I have to change shock absorbers(coil springs), would any of the
ones sold at Midas for example, do the job, or do I have to buy some
specially designed for that car (classics spare sparts dealers)?
Any additional information, on known problems or whatever, welcome...


THANK YOU VERY MUCH

A. LACHATRE

P.S.: I love my car!!
Mud Lab Maersk Valiant
dfsval@maracaibo.dowell.slb.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:20:24 -0400
Subject: Surreptitious subscriptions (was Re: )

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Mike Frederick wrote:

> Finally, majordomo will not allow one email addres to subscr*be another.

What if someone can 'speak' SMTP and knows how to use port 25 at
favouritesite.com?  Can the majordomo software detect fraudulent mail headers?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:26:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please

At 02:04 AM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I just bought a delta 88 convertible and didn't realise this 24 year old car
>(it's a 1973) would take me to such an interesting world: restoration world!

Welcome! Nice car, too! (saw a '76 hardtop one of these in a parking lot
last week, and boy was that a sharp car!) Plan on signing over many
paychecks to the proprietors of the establishments in this new and strange
world... :)

>One month ago I didn't know anything about classics, oldsmobile and delta
88s! >(I am french and just moved to the States)

*That* ought to provide a new and interesting perspective to this Oldsmobile
list!

>But I'm learning... And I need cooperation!

We're here to help.

>I'm now trying to have the engine taken care of. Though it runs great, what
>would you consider checking and changing right away?

Well, a few details would help. Do you have the 350 or the 455? How many
miles on it? Has it ever had any major work on it? Both the 350's and the
455's are excellent engines and will give you hundreds of thousands of miles
of service before needing anything but oil and perhaps some valve-guide
seals. Have you had a compression-test done? Are the vacuum readings at idle
steady, or do they fluctuate?

The only modifications you may want to make in the near future, assuming the
engine is in good overall condition, is a swap over to an HEI distributor
(better driveability and reliability) and perhaps add dual-exhausts, if it
is not already equipped with them, for greater performance and economy (as
long as you don't take to much advantage of the greater performance... ;) .
There may even have been a factory-dual exhaust system for this car, but I
could be wrong.

One other thing: how is the transmission? A (complete) fluid and filter
change is standard operating procedure for any old car you buy. An ounce of
prevention is worth $450 of cure, in this case.

>Then I'm curious about tires: I have some 235 7? x 15 on it. I checked my
>owner's manual and it says H78 x 15. What is the equivalence in metric size?
>Where can I find such tires, and corresponding wheel hubcaps?

The 235/75-15's you have are approximately what H78's would equate to; the
metric measurement represents _size_, while the letter-system actually
represents load-carrying capacity. Since you'd need a certain-size tire to
carry a given load, and all tire manufacturers used approximately the same
size tires, those letters came to be associated with specific sizes.
Theoretically, however, you could have a well-designed tire that was
smaller, but was still called an "H" because it could carry the load of a
larger tire.

Stick with the 235/75 or larger (255/70's should work as well, and give a
"meaner" look to the car, if that's what you want) radial tires, and you
should be happy.  BTW, the "75" and "78" refer to the "aspect ratio," or the
ratio between the width of the tire and the height of the tire. The stock
tires were specified as having a sidewall that was .78 or 78/100's the width
of the tire. For all practical purposes, the 75-series or even a 70-series
would fit the same.

>Finally if I have to change shock absorbers(coil springs), would any of the
>ones sold at Midas for example, do the job, or do I have to buy some
>specially designed for that car (classics spare sparts dealers)?

You should have a wide selection available to you. Just choose a good set of
gas-shocks, geared either toward performance or luxury, whatever is your
pleasure.

>Any additional information, on known problems or whatever, welcome...

Check the sources available throught http://www.442.com . Especially check
out the Olds Historical Center; mail them a letter with the VIN (Vehicle
Identification Number) of your car, and they'll send you a packet of
information on your car, as well as a booklet of sources for parts and
services you might (will) be needing. BTW, this service is free.

Of course, feel free to post any questions you might have to this list.
Also, read the FAQ compiled by David Brown (and others), which is available
through the above web site.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:34:03 -0400
Subject: Re: HP/torque comparisons - 200-4R torque capacity?

> would think the 455 wins there.  As far as torque is concerned, the 455 is
> gonna tear that v6 up pretty good.  The 455 is a stump puller, the v6 is a
> high RPM motor.

A sub-11 second Buick GN should be putting out well over 500hp.  Due to
the torque/horsepower relationship, a 500hp 455 should be producing about
the same amount of torque as the V6, when both are at a relatively high
speed (say 5000rpm).  When are automatics most likely to disintegrate: at
WOT at peak horsepower (i.e. during a 1-2 or 2-3 shift) or WOT at peak
torque (~3000rpm)?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: kritzers@cvc.net (Matthew Kritzer)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:34:13 -0400
Subject: Need a 200,000 mile plaque (eg Mercedes) for my wife's Cutlass Cierra

My wifes' 1985 Cutlass Cierra is approaching the 200,000 mile mark.
She's the original owner (first and only car).  The car is a bit lighter
(read lots of rust) but still gets around.  Early-on, the car survived
an insurance "totaling" accident, and for the past five years has
withstood my maintenance activities.  I'm trying to obtain a plaque
similar to those given to Mercedes that reach various mileage
milestones.  I doubt Oldsmobile has an official mileage plague program,
but was wondering if there were any ideas out there about obtaining a
plaque.  Does anyone have an e-mail address for customer support at
Oldsmobile?

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:14:32 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Buying and Selling

I sent a message about this on Monday that apparently was widely ignored,
so I'm sending it one LAST time before I start issuing warnings and/or
booting people. Please read this:

Commercial buy/sell postings have always been acceptable here within
reason. However, if you are responding to a request for parts, or even
further, responding to an offer to purchase parts, DO SO IN PRIVATE
EMAIL. The rest of us do not need to see it, nor do we want to. Traffic
on this list is heavy enough without these messages.

I realize that some mail systems do not provide you with the sender's
individual address, just "oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca". If that is the
case, you will need to ask for the person's email address. This can be
avoided if everyone makes sure their email address is included in a
signature file at the end of their message, especially sellers of parts.

I don't want to discourage use of the list for finding parts, but we need
to reduce the volume of messages arising from this activity. So once you
find something, take it private. Failure to do so will result in warnings
from me, and three of them and you're gone.

Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª549
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