To:	"DDA.RFC-822=oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca/P=ABTLAB/A=ABTLAB/C=US" @ 
SSWGATE
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #551


oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 6 March 1997       Volume 01 : Number 551

Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off
Re: e-mail address problem
Re: turbos,heat,efficiency etc
Re: 64 Vista Cruiser
Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential
Re: Parts Car Needs a Home
Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential
Gravity Brake Bleeding
Control Arm Bushings for Sale
Control arm bushing crossover
Re: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)
'94+ B-body dual exhausts (Re: Turbos....)
Re: 1970 Cutlass
Re: Heat expansion. was 307 problems
Turbo Basics...  Part 3 (long, but good)
Turbo Basics....   Part 2 (long, but good)
Turbo Basics...   Part 1 (long, but good)
Re: T-3 Inquiry
4-4-2 Motor
Re: Control arm bushing crossover
Mondello
1972 Delta 88 Royale Convt. Parts
[none]
Bumper Stickers
3/6 Olds Item For Sale
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª550
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
shift indicator plate
Re: 7.5" rear end build up
63 starfire for sale
Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque...
Re: Bad News from yesterday
Re: Bad News from yesterday
jack color for '69
Test --- NON OLDS
Re[2]: 7.5" rear end build up
finishing 455 rebuild
Olds in Miniature - Racing Champions
Re: Re[2]: 7.5" rear end build up
Re: 63 starfire for sale
Re: finishing 455 rebuild
Re: Turbo Basics....   Part 2 (long, but good)
Re: Turbo Basics.... Part 2 (long, but good)
Re: finishing 455 rebuild
RE: finishing 455 rebuild
Re: Parts Car Needs a Home
Re: finishing 455 rebuild

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:29:48 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off

Hey, I just discovered 95 cubes with oldsmobile mail!

If this isn't considered getting off then you might want to consider whether
the oldsmobile mail server is for you!

Sorry Greg, it's not my place to rebuke but..


Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88  - now in 425!

Even duct tape can't add cubes to an Oldsmobile!

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:37:40 -0400
Subject: Re: e-mail address problem

At 07:58 PM 3/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ira H. Siegelman, trying to reach you about your radio, but your e-mail
>addresss does not work.
>


Jim

        Just to make sure it's right it's "  chermac@exis.net  ". Hope he
gets through.

Thanks

Jim

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:39:44 -0400
Subject: Re: turbos,heat,efficiency etc

At 08:22 PM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>A look through any textbook on thermodynamics will tell you that the IC
engine >cycle is only 27% efficient (thermodynamically).  That doesn't
account for the >fact that better than 50% of the gas you buy goes to heat up
your brakes! >Efficiency has come a long way, and aerodynamics have also
played a part.  I >believe that we are rapidly approaching a limit.  There
has to be a more >efficient way to get around. > >Pat >

The skeptic from Missouri says, "show me."

Last weekend I drove from Saint Louis, Missouri to Chicksha, Oklahoma to
look at a 1931 Buick Cabriolet, and I expect that I used the brakes fewer
than 20 times on the highway portion of the trip.  I did wish I had changed
out the computer chip, but baring that; I believe that less than 1% of the
42 gallons of fuel I purchased on the trip, went out thru the brakes, while
I'm quite sure than 1/4 went into each the exhaust, the oil and the radiator.

The rule of thumb on GASOLINE IC engines is that 1/3rd is used for forward
motion, and 2/3rds is removed as waste heat, but not in the brakes.  And you
must include diesel powered IC engines in your discussion, and they do
rather better than their gasoline powered cousins.

My rule of thumb can be arguably 27% efficency, and that I will allow to
serve as approximately satisfactory.  But it's going to be necessary for you
to 'show me' that the brakes use double the energy than the propulsion does.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:50:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 Vista Cruiser

At 08:10 PM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-03-04 20:37:41 EST, you write:
>
>> TRIM 398 - are you sure this isn't mistyped, and should actually read
>>  "938"?  If so, that would jive with what Paul said earlier in that your
>>  car's interior color was/is "saddle."  The fabric was/is "morocceen."
>>
>
>Dan
>
>398 is correct.  That' what my color and trim book says for Saddle.
>
>Paul


OK, Paul.  Thanks!


Dan

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:28:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

>3) This revelation brings me back to an initial question: rear differentials,
>someone refered me to my manual where it apparently says 80W-90 (I havent
>looked). Anyone care to mention whats involved

Yeah...you have to remove the rear cover of the differential, and let the
fluid drain into a pan.  Wipe out the gray sludge on the bottom of the diff
housing.  Replace the diff cover with a new gasket, if you can get one.  I
used Ultra-Blue Silicone on mine; haven't had any problems.   There should
be a refill hole with a plug in it located on the side of the pumpkin, on
the passenger side.  Remove the plug it, and fill the diff with the 80W-90
'til it comes out of the hole.  Put the plug back in.  That's it.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:41:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts Car Needs a Home

In a message dated 97-03-03 01:37:54 EST, you write:

<< The car in question here is a '63 Dynamic
 Station Wagon.  >>

Can anyone say whether a dash clock from a 63 Dynamic is the same part(s) ª
as a 65 Dynamic? I may settle for compatible, if anyone knows.

Thanks

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

I should be able to duct tape a grandfather clock to this dashboard....

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:01:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

At 08:28 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>radios, drywall, ...). Anyway, I looked at the pump motor and the check
>valves and they looked fine, just really dusty. So I gave it a superficial
>cleaning and put it back on. Then I checked to see if the hoses going to the
>fluid jets were clear of obstructions (hope nobody was watching - ick!), and
>attempted to prime the pump (again - ick!). Then I turned on the wipers and
>pushed on the button for fluid. Well, I've solved half the problem, one side
>of the windshield gets a forceful stream of fluid. And you can probably guess
>which side that is. (Muffled expletives!) Next step is to check driver's side
>tubing/jet more carefully.

That rubber diaphram check-valve is probably just plain worn out on the
driver's side. You might want to splurge the $9 for a pump rebuild kit, and
have both sides working.

>And lastly of new items, to Dr. R Barry; Woof, Woof, (pant,
>pant-drool-slobber).
>I opted to jog outside having just glimpsed your input. I didn't clear
>anything away to allow the tape measure to lie directly on the manifold, but
>with the hook end over one edge and the 14" mark about an inch above the
>other, I dont think I could have lost two inches in that 5-10 degree angle.

No, unless you are measuring across the top of the *valve-covers*, anything
near 14" across the top surface intake manifold makes you MR. BIG-BLOCK
MAN!!! (congratulations!)

>This brings up a notion, who in their right mind would put a Rochester 2GC on
>a 425?

Well, it was the "turnpike-cruiser" version of the motor; put out about 310
hp, and about 490ft/lbs of torque, I believe. Or somebody could have swapped
in on during one of those gas crises we suffered through. The thing to do
now is to track down the casting numbers of your current intake manifold and
block (on the shelf behind the water pump, all covered in grease by now;
look in the FAQ for the details), and see if the VIN derivative stamped on
the block matches your car's numbers.

>I mean really (oh, wait, its a four-door.) (Fortunately the oil pans are
>interchangeable with small blocks!) Wait, when my mechanic swapped it on he
>said it wasn't a 425 because of the 2bbl. Not going there again (now I need
>more tools....). This explains why all of those M*rc*d*s were dissapearing in
>my rear view mirror, and also my gas milage =(8~O){ - - - ] <===H

Hmmm, what did you do to need a new oil pan? (BTW, yes, a small-block pan
will fit like a glove). Oh, not to be impolite, but are you *sure* that you
have a 2-bbl on there? The stock carb would be a 4GC, which is physically
much smaller than a Quadrajet. Just a thought...

>1) 425, ins & outs anyone? Because the 330 is narrower than the 350 and my
>engine has just passed 80K, I was going to have it bored 0.010 - 0.030 over
>(providing I could find pistons) as I probably still would'n't have gone near
>the water jackets. Will this concept be the same for 425 with reference to
>455?

Great motor; are you sure it needs a rebuild? If it's burning oil, it may
just be valve seals. Check your compression before you go tearing into the
motor. If pistons are a little more difficult to find, you can use the
crank, rods and pistons from a 455, bore it +.030" and have a 462ci
four-door! Whatever the case, do a compression check, and then do it again
after squirting some oil in the cylinder; if the pressure goes up
significantly, then you do need rings.

>2) Another person mentioned that A heads were somewhat inefficient but that
>his were resurrected with only minimal porting.. comments?

Unless you are changing the cam and the rear gear in your car, the "A" heads
will be fine for now.

Assuming your short-block is fundamentally sound, a hot setup would be to
find a set of "C" heads with valves and rocker-arm assemblies, add high-rev
springs, a 3-angle valve job, and some minor porting (if you have lots of
time on your hands). Install these, along with a Mondello JM18-20 cam
(specially ground, of course, for your 425's oddball 45' lifter-bank angle),
Performer intake and 750cfm vac. sec. carb, an HEI distributor, and true
dual exhausts, and you'll have one hot machine.

>3) This revelation brings me back to an initial question: rear differentials,
>someone refered me to my manual where it apparently says 80W-90 (I havent
>looked). Anyone care to mention whats involved..wiz?

Jack up the frame and place on jackstands. Unbolt the rear cover, get
covered in the gear lube that gushes out, clean the cover and put on a new
gasket (or just make your own from some silicone sealant), and then fill the
rear axle back up with 80W-90 lube that you can buy wherever finer
lubricants are sold.

>4) And a 425 of 1965 would be backed up by what designation of three speed
>automatic transmission?

Hmmm, I believe that you've got a genuine TH400; if that's the case, it's
probably a switch-pitch converter, which improves performance off the line.
You can have a custom converter built for you by Ken-Belle, for blazing
acceleration off the line and low slip at all other times.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:16:46 -0400
Subject: Gravity Brake Bleeding

<<How do you gravity bleed?  Just open the bleeder screws and let it drip
out?>>

Yup, just like that.  "Course, you hafta watch it and shut if off before it
all bleeds out or you can start over again.

Been there, done that. :-)

Bob

------------------------------

From: David Nye <jdnye@norfolk.infi.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:31:21 -0400
Subject: Control Arm Bushings for Sale

Hey everyone, I've decided to go with poly control arm bushings on the
'71 Cutlass so I now have a full set (including 4 extra uppers)of
Perfect Circle standard bushings that I don't need (these are the ones
that have one oval bushing). I'll take $20.00 for the lot and pay the
freight within the U.S.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:59:06 -0400
Subject: Control arm bushing crossover

>Hey everyone, I've decided to go with poly control arm bushings on the
>'71 Cutlass so I now have a full set (including 4 extra uppers)of
>Perfect Circle standard bushings that I don't need

Does anybody know if these bushings will fit my Dad's '71 Nova??

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:20:27 -0400
Subject: Re: HP/torque comparisons (was: 200-4R)

> For be it for me to spread dissent or start arguments...but, how much
> HP/torque does a b*ick t*rbo v6 put out compared to the 455 Olds?
>
> Danny
>  >>
>
>I dunno on the actual number, and it will depend on what 455 you pick (high
>HP?, etc.).  The HP figures are going to be the closest in this comparison
>(if that's what you'd call it, more like a "stomping" I would think), and I
>would think the 455 wins there.  As far as torque is concerned, the 455 is
>gonna tear that v6 up pretty good.  The 455 is a stump puller, the v6 is a
>high RPM motor.
>
>Chris Ruper

Don't sell the little turbo V6 too short.  The 1987 Buick GNX (special
edition Grand National, 500 made) sports a V6 that makes 300hp@4400(245@4400
advertised) and 400(yes, FOUR HUNDRED) lb of torque at 3200rpm(355@3200
advertised).

The car runs 15 lb of boost and had an intercooler and uses the good 'ol
200-4R.  Curb weight is 3331 pounds and it had a 3.41:1 limited slip
rearend.  With that combo it was good for 13.47 in the quarter and 5.4
second 0 to 60 times stock off the showroom floor.  I'm afraid that even a
healthy 442 would have to try it's damedest to dust off a GNX.  Of course,
you're not likely to see a GNX at the local stoplight so no one else has to
know.  :)

The specs came from an old Hot Rod mag article that also proclaimed the car
"Last of the real muscle cars."  If I remember correctly it was the fastest
production car built that year and it's probably the fastest GM car that
wasn't an F-body since. Pretty sad really.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:41:17 -0400
Subject: '94+ B-body dual exhausts (Re: Turbos....)

> many factory pieces as possible. Is the dual exhaust a true dual exhaust,
> with two catalytic converters etc.? Or does it go through a single cat, and
> then split off into two just after the converter? I'd at least like to have
> the tailpipes to start with, and then perhaps fabricate the intermediate
pipe. > > One last thing: does your transmission crossmember have clearance
for dual > exhausts on both sides, or just one "hump" on the passenger side?

Bob, the 1994-96 B/D-body cars with LT1 engines all have true dual
exhaust systems.  The driver's side catalytic converter is a bit forward of
the traditional location; it is incorporated into the downpipe, and sits at
about a 30 degree angle.  The frame crossmember has a dual humps.  It is
roughly twice as thick as the one on your Electra, with lots of
reinforcement ribbing.  The added width makes it difficult to gain access
to the rear transmission mount bolts.  The factory system is made out of
T-409 stainless steel - you may be able to purchase one fairly cheaply from
an Imp*la SS owner who has upgraded to an aftermarket system.  The LT1
was standard on the Imp*la, Roadmaster, and Fleetwood, and optional on
C*prices (L99 4.3 V8 was standard on these, single exhaust).  Interestingly,
there is a lateral brace that clamps to both left and right intermediate
pipes, and bolts directly to the transmission housing.  In addition to
serving as an exhaust hanger, I suppose this makes everything stiffer to
reduce resonance.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:48:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 1970 Cutlass

>
>     Didn't these cars use a backdrive linkage which would use the existing
> switch and park/lock utilities of the steering column?    When I converted
> my '72 CS to floor shift I used a shift bracket (part that mounts on the
> tranny) from a Camaro (gasp!) which allowed this to happen.
>
> > > Thank-you, Mark
>
>                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--
>                     --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
>         "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

The '70 model has a little switch hidden under the console. It hooks up
to the shifter. This piece was a one year only device on console
automatic cars.

Danny

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Heat expansion. was 307 problems

OK . Here's the short version.
All elements/metals/etc. have a different coefficient of expansion. This
means that different materials expand to different degrees under the same
change in temperature. This means that if you weld a thin strip of iron to a
thin strip of aluminium at room temperature, and heat them up, the composite
strip will develop a definite curve with the metal that expands more on the
outside of the curve. And yes, I know that aluminium is a "white" metal, this
is just an example.
Furthermore, a ball bearing (a sphere) will expand outwards in all directions
when heated. (here comes the pithy part)
Now, i don't believe any physicists have actually a V8 in terms of heat
expansion so I will describe what I know as the closest analog, and make
inferences that may or may not be justified.
Any flat washer, when heated, will expand outward, but only outwards. this
means that the outside diameter will expand, but the inside diameter will
- --not-- contract (as it might if it were to expand in all directions),
rather, the washers inside diameter -also expands-.
My interpretation of this is that as the engine heats up, the block itself
necessarily expands in size, and so do the cylinders. If my inference is
correct and not hindered by other factors (inserts, diferent metals in
contact), then the cylinders bore and stroke should expand by the same
percentage growth.
If this is true, then the only factor that might cause better compression in
a warm 307 or other engine is if the pistons (or perhaps only the rings) are
made of a different material that expands in heat to a greater degree than
the engine block itself.

(phew!)


Anyway those are some of the facts as I know them (feel free to disagree I am
known to be wrong)!

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Duct tape does contain metal but its expansion is contained by the tacky
cloth media in which it is embedded.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:53:50 -0400
Subject: Turbo Basics...  Part 3 (long, but good)

Here's part 3....

To help dispel some of  the ignorance, lets start with a simple description
of how a centifugal compressor works.  I like to use the analogy of a
playground merry-go-round.  If the kids are pushing the nerry-go-round at a
pretty good clip (a fast but constant RPM), but you're riding in the middle,
you won't be travelling very fast.  The farther out towards the edge you
move, however, the faster you go (because you have to travel a greater
distance to make one revolution).  The game "Crack the Whip" is based on the
same principle.  Think of the turbo impeller wheel as the merry-go-round.
 Air molecules enter the center, and move out to the edge of the spinning
rotor, where they are flung off into the scroll housing at a higher velocity.
 Moreover, as the air molecules travel along the blades of the spinning
rotor, they are flung outward by centrifugal force, which also increases
their velocity.  The centrifugal blower is thus an "energy multiplier".
 using a minimum of input energy, it multiplies the velocity of the air two
ways.  In the scroll housing or "diffuser", the velocity energy is converted
to pressure energy as the high speed molecules "stack up" like traffic-that
is, pack together to form higher-density air.  We call it "boost".

<snip - see part 4...  >

BTW, I am going to do this in two nights, long article, and I'm doing all the
typing, sooooo....   I will get to the other parts tom. night, and try and do
the "Intercooling" article afterwards.

Chris (the typing fool) Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:53:47 -0400
Subject: Turbo Basics....   Part 2 (long, but good)

Here's part 2 of this....

In terms of thermodynamic theory, the turbo sounds almost too good to be
true.  Remember, your small block Olds. (name changed to protect the ears of
others...) is a heat engine (combustion converts fuel energy to heat; heat
makes the air in the cylinder expand; this pushes the piston).  But what
comes out the exhaust?  Hot, pressurized air.  Any heat and pressure above
ambient that goes out the tailpipe is energy-horsepower and fuel
economy-wasted.  Thirty five percent or more of your engine's potential power
goes out the exhaust.  The turbocan't directly increase your engine's thermal
efficiency (percentage of potential heat energy in the fuel converted to work
at the crank), but it uses the wasted energy to greatly increase volumetric
efficiency.  a belt driven blower, by contrast, not only lets exhaust energy
escape, but it steals a further percentage of the engine's power directly
from the crankshaft.

A turbo not only increases the efficiency of the engine asa system, but it is
also  much more efficient at compressing air than typical positive
displacement blowers.  A Roots type blower, such as GMC, is lucky to achieve
50-percent overall efficiency at full boost.  That measne that it takes a lot
of energy (horsepower) to compress the air a given amount, and it transfers
some of this energy to the air in the form of heat, which expands the air.  A
centrifugal blower, like all turbos, can run at 60 to 70-percent efficiency
or more.

What's more, a centrifugal compressor will deliver increasingly more air
pressure the faster it's turned.  A positive-displacement type blower pumps
the same amount of air with each revolution of its rotors; its output is
directly proportional to its speed.  The output of a centrifugal blower,
however, increases exponentially (as the square) of its rotor speed.  Turn
the shaft three times faster and you get nine times more air; increase shaft
speed 10 times and output increases a hundredfold.

So far we have said nothing but great-nearly phenominal-things about turbos.
 So why doesn't every internal combustion engine have one?  Good question.
 An intermediate answer might be "ignorance".  You undoubtedly have noticed
how diesel trucks, piston airplanes, and most industrial engines have fully
accepted turbocharging in the last few years.  Additional component cost and
required owner maintenance (keeping engine oil fresh and clean) are two
reasons that some auto manufacturers have been reluctant to install turbos on
production cars.  But for automobile engines in general, ignorance (and hence
hesitance) about turbocharging is somewhat justified.  How to apply this
simple device to a high revving automobile engine can become complicated in a
hurry.

<snip....   see part 3... >
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:08:47 -0400
Subject: Turbo Basics...   Part 1 (long, but good)

Ok, while digging through my pile of crap that constitutes my collection of
old magazines which have been saved for various reasons, I happened to
realize I had an article on Turbos, and figured I'd post it for all.

Taken from Hot Rod mag. April '86

Turbo Talk - Getting to Know One

A turbo is a blower, like a GMC, a B&M, or more similarly, a Paxton.  It
gives the engine more power by delivering a supercharge of air (to which you
add proportionate extra fuel) on the intake stroke.  The blower pumps more
air into the motor than normal atmospheric pressure-about 14.5 psi-can push
in.

Remember, an engine runs on air-the expansion of air.  Air expands when it is
heated.  Combustion in the cylinder heats the air.  The expanding air pushes
(creates pressure) on the piston.  This pressure is converted to work by the
engine; we like to call it power.

The more air you get in each cylinder on the intake stroke, the more it will
try to expand-that is, the more pressure it will exert on the piston-and,
consequently, the more power the engine will make.

You all know that a supercharger's job is to blow more air into the engine.
 we're telling you why you want more air in the cylinders.  It's simple
physics.

One reson we're making this point is to help describe a turbocharger.
 There's an old saw about an internal combustion engine being basically an
air pump.  not exactly.  An engine doesn't pump air, it gets pumped by air.
 Our analogy isn't perfectly accurate, but it does relate to the two primary
components-and the operating principle-of a turbocharger.  A much better
analogy is the contrast between a water wheel (as used to run an old grist
mill or modern hydroelectric generator) and a paddle wheel (as on an
old-fashioned stern-wheeler steamboat, or like the prop on your ski boat).
 In one case we have a source of potential energy-runnin water-going to waste
until we put the "water wheel" in it to convert that energy to work.  In the
other case we want to move a vehicle through the water; we can use basically
the same methods of power transformation (a paddle wheel of some sort), but
this time we have to supply the energy to do the work.  It's the same
principle of energy transfer, but the opposite direction of power flow.

In fluid mechanics, the paddle wheel (or prop, fan, crew, etc.) that does the
work usually called a pump.  One that gets worked on, or driven, by the fluid
is called a turbine.  If air is the medium instead of water, since it's
compressable, the pump is usually called a compressor.  We might call it a
blower that is driven by a turbine placed in the readily available and
usually wated exhaust stream, rather than by a belt or other mechanical means
from the crankshaft.  You can see where it gets its name.

In all turbocharger examples we know of, both the turbine and the compressor
are similar in design-though opposite in direction of airflow-using a
multi-vane "wheel" inside a snail-like housing.  The two units are mounted
next to each other, and the two "fans" are solidly attached to opposite ends
of the same shaft.  Thus the exhaust driven turbine transmits it power
directly to the compressor, and both "wheels" always turn at the same speed.
 Mechanically a turbocharger is utterly simple.  It has one moving part!

<snip - see part 2...>
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:15:10 -0400
Subject: Re: T-3 Inquiry

I *rarely* drive this car and even less often at night.  Just to shows and
back and when one of the other daily drivers is down.  So I don't need to
see - haha - that often.


Thanks - I'm taking Dave up on his offer - as long as they arent the horror
movie orange versions like I've got now.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:25:51 -0400
Subject: 4-4-2 Motor

I have located a 400 out of a '67 4-4-2.  My question is, in the Setting
the Pace book, they list 2 400's for the Cutlass series that year, but only
one has the 442 reference, as the L78 option.  It said 350 hp, plus the
bore and stroke.  I know the compression ratio is 10:5:1, what else is
there to know about this motor?  Its been out of the car for 12 years in a
guys shop (he never used it) and I plan on putting it in one of my '72 V-C's.

Thanks in advance -

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:24:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Control arm bushing crossover

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> >Hey everyone, I've decided to go with poly control arm bushings on the
> >'71 Cutlass so I now have a full set (including 4 extra uppers)of
> >Perfect Circle standard bushings that I don't need
>
> Does anybody know if these bushings will fit my Dad's '71 Nova??
>
> --
> Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
> Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
> dpauliso@gate.net


ALl of them except the oval ones.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Shang <Shang@dfwmm.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:35:17 -0400
Subject: Mondello

Ya'll please don't cream me for this one, is there a Mondello web site
and could someone please provide me an address to get one of his product
catalogs?

Thanks

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:01:16 -0400
Subject: 1972 Delta 88 Royale Convt. Parts

I am looking for various NOS and used parts for above referenced Olds.
Please let me know what you have for sale.  THANKS!

------------------------------

From: chray@Logical.Net
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:01:49 -0400
Subject: [none]

subscribe oldsmobile-digest

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:22:13 -0400
Subject: Bumper Stickers

A while ago there was a list of bumper stickers on this list. I printed them
out and my lovely wife threw them away. I would like to obtain a copy of that
again. Can anyone tell me where I might find a copy of those quotes and
quips? Thanks

Rob Turner
Katana72@Aol.com       It's NOT your Daddy's Oldsmobile!!!     Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:40:52 -0400
Subject: 3/6 Olds Item For Sale

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to
sell:

Oldsmobile Racing Cap.  White, with rocket logo and "The New
Generation of Oldsmobile Motorsports" silkscreened on the front in
black, maroon, red, and orange.  Mesh back.  1991 North Wilkesboro
Victory Lane souvineer.  Used, but in very good condition.  $15.00,
including shipping to addresses in the United States. (3/6/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to
purchase this item or if you would like additional information about
it.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:01:31 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

>I don't mind helping those folks, but if you're not reading the welcome
>message or the periodic postings here about how this all works I fail to
>see why it's my problem. But almost always, it eventually does become
>one...

What if we did this: Automatically sign up all subscription requests for
the _digest_ version only. That deals with the same quantity, but in a
much more manageable fashion message-header-wise, one vs. 200+. Within
the welcome message you can then embed a paragraph on how to go about
getting real-time, single-message distribution. No one can then be
inundated with individual postings without full knowledge of how to
get into that mode to begin with.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª550

>The service manual stated that either a bad wiper switch or poor
>connections in the wiring can be the cause of many wiper problems.
>I am going to take the cover off the wiper unit and see if the relay
>switch is working properly as this should be fairly easy to see if the
>unit is working.

I'm a bit confused here; is the problem that the park motion isn't
engaging? (i.e. The motor isn't doing that little reverse maneuver
on shutdown that pushes the wipers down to the cowl?)

Re: The keyed wiper shafts: Sorry about that wild goose chase. I must
have been thinking about the spouse's '86 K wagon, which has unkeyed
shafts that allow you to put the wipers on properly, almost properly
or completely wrong.  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:29:15 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

At 11:01 AM 3/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I don't mind helping those folks, but if you're not reading the welcome
>>message or the periodic postings here about how this all works I fail to
>>see why it's my problem. But almost always, it eventually does become
>>one...
>
>What if we did this: Automatically sign up all subscription requests for
>the _digest_ version only. That deals with the same quantity, but in a
>much more manageable fashion message-header-wise, one vs. 200+. Within
>the welcome message you can then embed a paragraph on how to go about
>getting real-time, single-message distribution. No one can then be
>inundated with individual postings without full knowledge of how to
>get into that mode to begin with.
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>
>

I think you've hit on a viable alternative, and possibly problem reducing
answer.

The Wiz Agrees

------------------------------

From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 05:48:39 -0400
Subject: shift indicator plate

Wanted for my '63 Starfire - the shift indicator lens found in the
console.  About a 3X7" flat clear plastic plate with P N D S L R
engraved and letters painted white.  New or used that can be restored-
please HELP!!!!   Part ª 588016  Thanks

------------------------------

From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:57:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 7.5" rear end build up

At 12:16 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Andy Geeting wrote:
><snip>
>> good limited slip unit? Any suggestions on what kind? Also plan on changing
>> to 3.73:1 rear gears. Will these be fairly good on gas mileage with the
>> overdrive tranny? What is the ratio I have now?
>
>Andy,
>  I have an '86 442 with the 3.73 rear end TH200-4R combo. (no anti-spin
>tho.. :-(  )  I just filled up today..got 200 miles on 16 gallons so
>about 12.5 on this tank.  And that's all stop and go city type driving
>with little highway...hmm..well maybe about 50 miles highway this
>tank...looking back at my spreadsheet (yes, I punch the numbers from my
>mileage book into Excel...) my range is about 10.5 all the way up to
>17.5 (that was ALL highway..)...hmm, maybe it's time to replace the O2
>sensor..
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>---Matt
>86 442
>
>
 Thanks Matt! Does anybody else have any information on what limited slip
unit would be good to use?
Thanks in advance.
Andy Geeting
'87 Cutlass Supreme
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
'74 Delta 88 convertible
'78 Caprice wagon
'36 Plymouth coupe

------------------------------

From: Travis Adams <cashmore@imt.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:54:56 -0400
Subject: 63 starfire for sale

I recently came across an ad for a 63 starfire for sale in "restorable
condition" for $450.  I think the location is Wyoming.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque...

>First, *so* many Oldsmobiles make it that far, that it's kinda
>anti-climactic (if not by some superior quality in all cases, then
at least
>by sheer numbers; I'm sure that there are far more Oldsmobiles ten
years or
>older on the road today than Mercedes has *ever* produced for this
country)
<snip>

You can count mine in...  We just turned 220,000.

<snip>
>I do admire anyone who can keep a car that they bought new on the
road for
>200,000 miles. Good job! Now, how much is it going to cost to bring
the body
>back into shape, so you can go for another 200,000?
<snip>

What about someone who has kept it on the road for the last 6 years
(with no major problems other than that darn HEI), after being
through a young couple (10 years), two teenage males (8 years
combined), and a large woman-in-law  (1 year) who quite often ran it
completely out of oil?  ;-)  Is it really the owner who should be
admired?  Or the cars?

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:03:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

Hi all,

Well my luck ran out.  I was involved in an accident yesterday in my
68 442.  Here is how it happened:

I was driving in lane 1 (closest to center divider) minding my own
business.  An acura in lane 2 was beside and forward of my car about
half a car length.  He decides to turn into my lane and I jammed on
the breaks.  My car was fishtailing to the left and right and I believe
I did a 270 when I came to a stop.  My driver's rear quarter panel
got smashed into, behind the wheel well.  Smashed my rear bumper at
the edge and dented that section of the frame.  My exhaust pipe was
bent completely around whereby the U-mounting bracket punctured two
holes in my gas tank, along with the frame moving the gas tank and
the strap causing a slit in the gas tank.  Needless to say gas all
over the place.  My tail lens is showing cracks.  Don't know if the
assembly is damaged or not.  My trunk looks like it needs replacement,
as well as the outer wheelhouse apron.  I'll probably have to replace
the wheel well molding as well.  Boy what a day.  Luckily I was able
to drive off to my mechanic (thanks to the fire department for patching
the holes).  Got the tank patched and drove the car over to a *hevy
dealership (Yes I know) for an appraisal (Well at least they are
respectful of my Olds).  Ball-parking about $3,000.00 repair including
painting.  Ouch!!!!!!!!!!  I wonder if my axle might have been affected
by the  damage to the frame?

I can't write any more on this for now.  Later :====(

Chris Sparks
68 442 (hurt'n bad)

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:24:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad News from yesterday

Chris,
Truly sorry to hear your bad news. My 98 got hit in December and I was really
unhappy, particularly since it was the rear which is harder to fix than,
say, a fender or bumper. Good luck on the fix! Mine came out better after
than it was before thanks to a new decklid and fixed taillight bucket.

Great job on the gastank fix, I'd have been incapacitated. Anyway glad to
hear you weren't hurt, one great thing about cars is that you can usually
fix 'em for a price, not true with people.

Look forward to hearing about the car cure.
cf

------------------------------

From: Mike Shokouhi <mikevs1@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:19:47 -0400
Subject: jack color for '69

Hi,

Does anyone know what the gray color is called (or equiv.) for the base,
head, and other gray parts on a '69 H/O jack assembly.  An old Musclecar
review paints a '71 Cutlass' semi gloss black.  Mine kind of looks like
a rally wheel gray?

Thnx

Mikee

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:48:36 -0400
Subject: Test --- NON OLDS

  Sorry 'bout this folks,  all of a sudden i wasn't receiving any mail ---
just checking to see if my mail is still working for the mailing list

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 05:57:40 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 7.5" rear end build up

     I must have missed the first part of this conversation while my e-mail
     was down earlier this week (Domain name?  We don't need no stinking
     domain name. . .), but here's my contribution. . .

     For comparison, the mileage out of my '84 H/O (3.73's w/ 200-4R) is
     very similar to what Matt gets.  I get 12-15mpg around town (usually
     average 13) depending upon how I drive, whether we have oxygenated or
     normal gas, and the phase of the moon as far as I can tell.  I get 19
     or 20 on the highway, once I got 21.  It's hard to judge highway
     mileage in this part of the country because not only is it not flat,
     but I can't drive any one direction for very long before hitting a
     mountain pass which totally goofs up your figures.  Since they raised
     the speed limits to 70mph, my mileage has definitely gone _down_.
     Cruising at 70mph I think I'm doing about 2500-2700 RPM's (tach is
     goofy).  At 85-90 (speedo only goes to 85, D*mn you Jimmy Carter!) I
     do 3500 RPM, and I don't feel comfortable holding it there for an
     extended period.

     If you're looking to build up a 7.5" rear, I wouldn't.  I would
     recommend finding the 7 5/8" (I think that's the measurement) rear
     from a Monte Carlo SS.  They should be much easier to find than the
     8.5" from a 442, H/O, or GN.  I've been told that many Chevy S10
     trucks have this 7 5/8" rear too.  It should hold up to a built small
     block, but probably not a built-up big block.

     I think I'm about due for a new O2 sensor too.  I bought a new one
     last year but I can't get the *%&ª@ thing out to change it!  I think I
     just may pay my mechanic a few bucks to let him skin his knuckles,
     break his wrenches, and strip a few threads.

     As for posi recommendations, call around and ask different tranny
     places what they recommend.  I did this a few months ago on my H/O and
     ended up finding a place that could get a gen-you-whine GM Doublock
     limited slip rear for $250 (they said there was exactly one left, in a
     warehouse back east, but that could be the salesman talking).  The
     best quote I got on an Auburn unit was $20 _more_ than that.  I'm very
     happy with the unit so far, it definitely works.  In fact, on gravel
     or sometimes even wet roads, when I turn a tight corner at low speed I
     can hear the inside tire chattering as it skids 'cause the posi is so
     tight.  I don't mind though, I'd rather it be too tight than too
     loose.  It's an interesting sensation to learn that when you get on it
     too much, _both_ rear tires spin and your rear end starts fishtailing,
     rather than just one tire spinning and your rear staying in place.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: 7.5" rear end build up Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/6/97 9:20 AM


At 12:16 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Andy Geeting wrote:
><snip>
>> good limited slip unit? Any suggestions on what kind? Also plan on changing
 >> to 3.73:1 rear gears. Will these be fairly good on gas mileage with the
>> overdrive tranny? What is the ratio I have now? > >Andy, >  I have an '86
442 with the 3.73 rear end TH200-4R combo. (no anti-spin >tho.. :-(  )  I
just filled up today..got 200 miles on 16 gallons so >about 12.5 on this
tank.  And that's all stop and go city type driving >with little
highway...hmm..well maybe about 50 miles highway this >tank...looking back at
my spreadsheet (yes, I punch the numbers from my >mileage book into Excel...)
my range is about 10.5 all the way up to >17.5 (that was ALL
highway..)...hmm, maybe it's time to replace the O2 >sensor..

------------------------------

From: dedarnell@electro-matic.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:26:39 -0400
Subject: finishing 455 rebuild

... or so I thought.  This is my first oldsmobile project, but I'm learning
a lot about olds engines in the process.  I have a couple of concerns from
what I've learned from this list and from Mondello's Tech handbook.  The
engine is a '69 455 with C heads, I had the engine bored .030" honed and
decked, valve job with hardened seats, new valves, valve guides, and
springs, trw forged pistons, ground crank, new bearings, timing chain and
gears, high volume oil pump, and a big cam from Mondello (the lift is .496I
and  512E if I remember right).  The engine is together to the point that
the oil pan is on, and the intake will be put on next.

My first question is, should I buy a bigger oil pan?  I've heard about hi
volume oil pumps sucking the pan dry, and  I have not made any mods to
reduce oil flow to the top end.

My second question is, I am replacing a 350 in a cutlass, and the height of
the 455 with the torqer on it makes the engine pretty tall.  Willl this
setup fit under my hood?(71 cutlass)  I am planning on using the stock 350
mounts right now.

number 3.   With a cam this size should I be thinking about an adjustable
valvetrain, or can I get buy with what I have?

Advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Darnell ('71 cutlass convertible)
email - dedarnell@electro-matic.com

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:25:52 -0400
Subject: Olds in Miniature - Racing Champions

     All,
     Saw in the April "Hot Rod" that Racing Champions is issuing a 1969
     Oldsmobile.  Hope it's the 442 from their latest Collector Gift box
     from this past Holiday.  There will be 3 issued, I guess different
     colors. One each month of March, April & May at K-Mart, WalMart,
     Target, ToysRUs and "other fine stores".  They have a web page @
     www.racingchampions.com

      ---
     | | | Brad Nicholson   OCAª18984
     | | | 1987 442 W-42
     |/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
     | | | 76062.3042@compuserve.com
      ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:04:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 7.5" rear end build up

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Tom Lentz wrote:

>
>      For comparison, the mileage out of my '84 H/O (3.73's w/ 200-4R) is
>      very similar to what Matt gets.  I get 12-15mpg around town (usually
>      average 13) depending upon how I drive, whether we have oxygenated or


Lessee, it takes me $7.00 to drive from my house just south of Greeneville
to Johnson City for school.  Well, it's about 50 miles to JC. so...

50 + 50 = 100 miles (the $7 figure was for both ways)
Lessee, avg.  gas price is $1.40/gal. for premium

$7.00 of gas / $1.40 per gallon = 5.00 gallons of gas

100 miles / 5.00 gallons = 20 mpg.

Gosh, that ain't too bad!!!!
Y'all check my math, I'm a history major, not an engineer! :-)

My car is an '84 Cutlass supreme with a 350 4bbl. and TH375 transplanted
into it.  I have 2.41:1 open diff. gears, and 225/65/14 tires on the rear.
I normally travel between 60 and 75 depending on weather, and live in a
fairly mountainous area.  I'm wanting to go to a posi unit in the lower
3's:1 to improve my takeoff.  I don't need to worry about losing any top
end... with those low (numerically) gears, I have a REALLY high top end!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (must be them "airplane gears") Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:11:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 63 starfire for sale

At 01:54 PM 3/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I recently came across an ad for a 63 starfire for sale in "restorable
>condition" for $450.  I think the location is Wyoming.
>
>

There is an aire of bogustisity about that ad.  The ONLY car to venture up
there so far is a Kissel, I saw their ad, and it must be "...somewhere west
of Larame."

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:24:21 -0400
Subject: Re: finishing 455 rebuild

At 01:26 PM 3/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>... or so I thought.  This is my first oldsmobile project, but I'm learning
>a lot about olds engines in the process.  I have a couple of concerns from
>what I've learned from this list and from Mondello's Tech handbook.  The
>engine is a '69 455 with C heads, I had the engine bored .030" honed and
>decked, valve job with hardened seats, new valves, valve guides, and
>springs, trw forged pistons, ground crank, new bearings, timing chain and
>gears, high volume oil pump, and a big cam from Mondello (the lift is .496I
>and  512E if I remember right).  The engine is together to the point that
>the oil pan is on, and the intake will be put on next.
>
>My first question is, should I buy a bigger oil pan?  I've heard about hi
>volume oil pumps sucking the pan dry, and  I have not made any mods to
>reduce oil flow to the top end.
>
>My second question is, I am replacing a 350 in a cutlass, and the height of
>the 455 with the torqer on it makes the engine pretty tall.  Willl this
>setup fit under my hood?(71 cutlass)  I am planning on using the stock 350
>mounts right now.
>
>number 3.   With a cam this size should I be thinking about an adjustable
>valvetrain, or can I get buy with what I have?
>
>Advice would be greatly appreciated.
>Dave Darnell ('71 cutlass convertible)
>email - dedarnell@electro-matic.com
>
>
>
The A/C is the highest point on the engine, unless your intake manifold is
unreasonably taller than the factory unit, no A/C and you should be able to
use the stock SB mounts, with A/C I expect you will be required to buy new
motor mounts.

The bigger the pan, the more oil you have to spread the heat around it, it
certainly can't hurt.

The valve train, adjustable, or factory will not accomodate too much length
in the valve train.  What that means is that the lift of the cam must not
cause a valve to strike the head of a piston when it reaches T.D.C., it
matters not whether you have adjustable valve train or factory=
 non-adjustable.

You should address your particular set of circumstances before you turn on
the key.  Your cam has considerable more lift than the one I used, so I
cannot help from experience.  I expect that this particular set of
circumstances has been addressed by another on this list, and can tell you
if 0.512" lift at the cam will bring the piston into contact.

I'm sorry I could only help at the 0.125=A2 rate, not the entire 2=A2, I=
 hope I
got you started.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:27:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbo Basics....   Part 2 (long, but good)

At 12:53 AM 3/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Here's part 2 of this....
>
>In terms of thermodynamic theory, the turbo sounds almost too good to be
>true.  Remember, your small block Olds. (name changed to protect the ears of
>others...) is a heat engine (combustion converts fuel energy to heat; heat
>makes the air in the cylinder expand; this pushes the piston).  But what
>comes out the exhaust?  Hot, pressurized air.  Any heat and pressure above
>ambient that goes out the tailpipe is energy-horsepower and fuel
>economy-wasted.  Thirty five percent or more of your engine's potential power
>goes out the exhaust.  The turbocan't directly increase your engine's thermal
>efficiency (percentage of potential heat energy in the fuel converted to work
>at the crank), but it uses the wasted energy to greatly increase volumetric
>efficiency.  a belt driven blower, by contrast, not only lets exhaust energy
>escape, but it steals a further percentage of the engine's power directly
>from the crankshaft.

COMMENT: If a direct drive supercharger were only parasitic, they would not
be used for inlet charge boost!  (The 6-71 supercharger for example, when
used as originally intended, scavanged the exhaust gases from the cyl. and
as an added advantage aided in the boost, but would have been necessary in
the exhaust portion of its operation, as the 6-71 engine only exhales at and
near bottom dead center, not T.D.C. like in ordinary automobiles).  I
believe that the use of a engine driven supercharger gives much more that it
takes, similar to the turbo in this regard, it is just that it 'takes' more
than the turbo.

>A turbo not only increases the efficiency of the engine asa system, but it is
>also  much more efficient at compressing air than typical positive
>displacement blowers.  A Roots type blower, such as GMC, is lucky to achieve
>50-percent overall efficiency at full boost.  That measne that it takes a lot
>of energy (horsepower) to compress the air a given amount, and it transfers
>some of this energy to the air in the form of heat, which expands the air.  A
>centrifugal blower, like all turbos, can run at 60 to 70-percent efficiency
>or more.

COMMENT: It is very difficult for me to grasp the concept that a positive
displacment pump is less efficient than a centrifugal.  A positive
displacment pump will displace 100% of its stroke volume, each stroke, and a
centrifugal will just spin its fool head off, going no where, when its
output is constricted.


>What's more, a centrifugal compressor will deliver increasingly more air
>pressure the faster it's turned.  A positive-displacement type blower pumps
>the same amount of air with each revolution of its rotors; its output is
>directly proportional to its speed.  The output of a centrifugal blower,
>however, increases exponentially (as the square) of its rotor speed.  Turn
>the shaft three times faster and you get nine times more air; increase shaft
>speed 10 times and output increases a hundredfold.

Where does the efficency go when you reach cavitation, which will occur in a
centrifugal pump.

>So far we have said nothing but great-nearly phenominal-things about turbos.
> So why doesn't every internal combustion engine have one?  Good question.
> An intermediate answer might be "ignorance".  You undoubtedly have noticed
>how diesel trucks, piston airplanes, and most industrial engines have fully
>accepted turbocharging in the last few years.  Additional component cost and
>required owner maintenance (keeping engine oil fresh and clean) are two
>reasons that some auto manufacturers have been reluctant to install turbos on
>production cars.  But for automobile engines in general, ignorance (and hence
>hesitance) about turbocharging is somewhat justified.  How to apply this
>simple device to a high revving automobile engine can become complicated in a
>hurry.

I think that 'cost' is the greatest drawback here, something that would fall
dramatically if 'every' engine were so equipped.

><snip....   see part 3... >
>Chris Ruper
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbo Basics.... Part 2 (long, but good)

> goes out the exhaust.  The turbocan't directly increase your engine's
thermal > efficiency (percentage of potential heat energy in the fuel
converted to work > at the crank), but it uses the wasted energy to greatly
increase volumetric

If 'wasted' energy is used, how much does this improve upon the ~27%
thermodynamic efficiency of normal engines?

> What's more, a centrifugal compressor will deliver increasingly more air
> pressure the faster it's turned.  A positive-displacement type blower pumps
> the same amount of air with each revolution of its rotors; its output is
> directly proportional to its speed.  The output of a centrifugal blower,
> however, increases exponentially (as the square) of its rotor speed.  Turn
> the shaft three times faster and you get nine times more air; increase shaft
> speed 10 times and output increases a hundredfold.

This means that for a given RPM, the centrifugal compressor will have a
greater output (more efficient at a certain RPM).  Wouldn't its power
consumption at this speed also be correspondingly higher than a
positive-displacement type blower (i.e. more drag)?

>  So why doesn't every internal combustion engine have one?  Good question.
>  An intermediate answer might be "ignorance".  You undoubtedly have noticed
> how diesel trucks, piston airplanes, and most industrial engines have fully

This is not a legitimate comparison!  A diesel powerplant works off
difference principles; it would seem that the lack of 'throttle' control
makes it better suited for forced induction.  Wiz makes a valid point
about cost, but if turbos significantly improved upon the approx. 27%
thermodynamic efficiency of piston based gasoline IC engines, I'd say
money wouldn't matter.  When the need has arisen, whether it be an energy
absorbing bumper requirement, mandatory supplemental inflatable
restraints, or public demand for anti-lock brakes, the automakers have
found solutions that minimize cost at all levels.

Chris, thanks for taking the time to post the Hot Rod article.  I'm
looking forward to part 4.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:40:28 -0400
Subject: Re: finishing 455 rebuild

dedarnell@electro-matic.com wrote:
>
> My first question is, should I buy a bigger oil pan?  I've heard about hi
> volume oil pumps sucking the pan dry, and  I have not made any mods to
> reduce oil flow to the top end.
>
> My second question is, I am replacing a 350 in a cutlass, and the height of
> the 455 with the torqer on it makes the engine pretty tall.  Willl this
> setup fit under my hood?(71 cutlass)  I am planning on using the stock 350
> mounts right now.
>
> number 3.   With a cam this size should I be thinking about an adjustable
> valvetrain, or can I get buy with what I have?
>
> Advice would be greatly appreciated.
> Dave Darnell ('71 cutlass convertible)
> email - dedarnell@electro-matic.com

1. The stock pan will be fine for 1/4 mile runs.  For any longer high
rpm runs (circle track) well then a larger pan or dry sump might be
needed.

2. You should still be able to use a 3 1/5 inch tall counter sank air
cleaner that just mashes against the insulation on the bottom side of
hood. This will hide your carb some, but will give enough air flow with
16" in diameter. Use of spacers under the carb changes the story.
                  (Check with your neighbor for a jig-saw).

3. Is the cam hydrolic or solid?  Most cams over .500 are solid lift and
adjustable valve train is recommended.

Shoe-Man
OCAª021151
NTOCª254
64 D88
69 442
74 Supreme

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:50:29 -0400
Subject: RE: finishing 455 rebuild

You wrote:

You should address your particular set of circumstances before you turn =
on
the key.  Your cam has considerable more lift than the one I used, so I
cannot help from experience.  I expect that this particular set of
circumstances has been addressed by another on this list, and can tell =
you
if 0.512" lift at the cam will bring the piston into contact.

.512  lift will not even come close to touching valve to piston in an =
Olds. Even if the block is decked. The only time you may experience =
interferanc of this sort is when running cams bigger than .575  and 240 =
dur at 0.50 " or running domed pistons.

 Chris Urban

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:11:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts Car Needs a Home

In a message dated 97-03-06 18:23:13 EST, you write:

> Can anyone say whether a dash clock from a 63 Dynamic is the same part(s) ª
>  as a 65 Dynamic? I may settle for compatible, if anyone knows.
>

I don't think they are.  I'm pretty sure the '63 are square and the '65's are
round.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:18:24 -0400
Subject: Re: finishing 455 rebuild

At 12:26 PM 3/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>gears, high volume oil pump, and a big cam from Mondello (the lift is .496I
>and  512E if I remember right).  The engine is together to the point that
>the oil pan is on, and the intake will be put on next.
>
>My first question is, should I buy a bigger oil pan?  I've heard about hi
>volume oil pumps sucking the pan dry, and  I have not made any mods to
>reduce oil flow to the top end.

Well, HV oil pumps do pump *more* per/rpm than the standard volume oil
pumps, but what some forget is that the _pressure_relief_valve_ pops open at
a set pressure, directing all the excess oil back into the oil pan before it
goes up to the top of the block. Since the oil passages remain a constant
diameter, you are pumping exactly the same amount of 55psi oil at 4000rpm
using a HV pump as you are using a standard pump; the pressure relief valve
is just allowing *more* of the HV's output to go back into the pan.

I suppose that in theory, the pressure relief might not be able to keep up
with the extra output of the HV pump, but you would know this when you saw
the oil pressure climbing at high revs beyond what the pressure relief valve
spring is rated at (if you don't know what that is, you can figure it out
once you run your engine much above idle, as a HV pump will "max out" rather
quickly at a certain psi and stay there no matter how much you rev your
engine- for example, my 403's HV pump hits 55psi by about 2000rpm and stays
there, no matter what I rev it to). In that case, you would need some
reserve oil, because the drainbacks in the heads would be the bottleneck for
the extra oil going through the lifters (which are kind of "oil pumps"
themselves).

As for the restrictors, someone has pointed out (is this in the FAQ yet?)
that Mondello's restrictors only restrict flow to the cam _bearings_ (refer
to a diagram of the Olds V-8 oiling system to confirm this one), not to the
lifters or the pushrods or the upper end of the engine. A reversible way of
achieving the same thing is to drill a smaller hole in your cam bearings,
and install that hole facing the oil feed hole from the main journals. To
restrict flow to the upper-end of the engine, you need restricted pushrods
(btw, how do solid-lifter motors oil the top end?)

Now, the thing you *might* want to be concerned about is the oil foaming,
since the oil pressure relief valve is just SPRAYING the oil back into the
pan, and at a high rate at high rpm's, you could have your oil pickup
sucking oil bubbles. Not good.

Consider this: you can have a high-capacity oil pan in a couple days via
mail-order for about $200, including the extended pickup. How much have you
already sunk into the motor? Is it worth the extra peace of mind to have a
couple extra quarts of oil on hand to feed your engine? Then again, unless
you start running this engine at a constant 4000rpm, you really won't
encounter this problem. This is your call.

>My second question is, I am replacing a 350 in a cutlass, and the height of
>the 455 with the torqer on it makes the engine pretty tall.  Willl this
>setup fit under my hood?(71 cutlass)  I am planning on using the stock 350
>mounts right now.

How worn are those 350 mounts? How readily could you get 455 mounts? (which
supposedly have the motor sit 1" lower) As far as the air-conditioning
compressor being the highest point, I don't believe that's the case on all
455's; on my Toro's 455, with the low-profile air cleaner, the air-cleaner
is still the highest point in the engine.

>number 3.   With a cam this size should I be thinking about an adjustable
>valvetrain, or can I get buy with what I have?

Well, the first limit on the valve lift is when the retainer starts hitting
the top of the valve guide, at about .520". Now, you're pretty close on your
exhaust, so definitely check this clearance (unless you *like* bending
pushrods!). Though you should have thought of this before, you can machine
down the valve guide boss to increase this clearance (Mondello also sells a
tool to do this, which also allows you to install positive-seal teflon valve
seals).

The other thing to be concerned about is lifter preload; how much do you
have? If you have too much, you can use shims; if you have too little, you
can use longer pushrods combined with shims. Or, you can just spring for an
adjustable valvetrain, but you'd need one of the bolt-on systems, rather
than the 7/16" stud systems that require machining (unless you are ready to
take the heads off again). AFAIK, Mondello and Dick Miller Racing are the
only sources for these setups, and you're up in the $300 range with them.
Also beware, Mondello's low-price stamped-rocker adjustable valvetrain is
simply the stock setup with a pack of shims thrown in. Make sure you know
what you are getting.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª551
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