oldsmobile-digest-owner @ chebucto.ns.ca 
02/08/97 11:55 AM
To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #507


oldsmobile-digest        Saturday, 8 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 507

shift indicator
The Mattea Project
Tim's friendly government
ADMIN: No Politics Allowed
Re: Tim's friendly government
Re: ADMIN: No Politics Allowed
Re: ADMIN: No Politics Allowed
New member + TCS solenoid
ADMIN: Posting Guidelines
Re: Mustangs vs. W-41
Re: Mustangs vs. W-41
Re: Axle mania
[Fwd: [Toro] Toro in "Automobile"]
Hydra Matic Super Drive
Switch to Discks?
Re: A Few Q's
Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst
Re: Flames
Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)
Re: So Cal Olds
Re: A Few Q's: Reply Again
Re: Performance !
Re: Switch to Discks?
Q-Jet Carb Question
Re: Switch to Discks?
Re: A Few Q's
Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)
yet another muff question
Ouch goes the Rockit  :(
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)
Re: yet another muff question
Re: New member + TCS solenoid
Lingenfelter auction
Re: Q-Jet Carb Question
1967 OLDS DELTA 88 ...61 OLDS WONDERBAR RADIO
Re: BUMPER STICKERS
Re: Newsgroup???
Re: yet another muff question
Non Olds but important
Re[3]: Auto Tranny question
Re: Mid Engines
Re: Chicago video (was: Kathy Mattea...)
Re[2]: DANGER..Coils Ahead
Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jim helle <helle@dbeach.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:55:31 -0400
Subject: shift indicator

I have a 72 cutlass, auto w/o dual-gate shift. My indicator markers were
wearing off making it almost impossible to know what gear I was in. I
set out to find a new one. Ha! nos part was non-existence, used ones
looked almost as bad as mine and cost $40 to $50. I found a friend who
works in plastic to make me one that fits the shifter plate and looks
like the original, and best of all it cost $30.(he used a computer). Its
so good he is sending one to a olds parts dealer in cal. He suggested
others might have same problem. Anyone interested and need info my
e-mail, helle@dbeach.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:12:19 -0400
Subject: The Mattea Project

Gang,

Here's a project for all of us! Below is a note from the webmaster of
Kathy Mattea's page that I received today. He wants our help! I'm *sure*
someone out there can enlighten him... any takers?

Progress.... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:19:06 -0400
From: John Begraft <johnraft@nac.net>
To: ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: 455 Rocket

Greg,

Unfortunately the spinning car was the best I could find on the Internet
and I do not have any stock images of an olds.  An animated graphic such as
that takes about 8 images at each angle.  If you or anyone on your e-mail
list can come up with a suitable alternative I would be happy to look it
over, and if appropriate, substitute it for the spinning Thunderbird.

Falling Forward,

John Begraft

**************************************************************
                    Eclectic Web Promotions

       Love Travels: The Kathy Mattea Home Page

                     http://www.mattea.com

                    webmaster@mattea.com
**************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:20:47 -0400
Subject: Tim's friendly government

In a message dated 97-02-07 08:43:22 EST, you write:

>After talking to some state reps, what we
>found  -- for NJ anyway -- was that cars only had to meet emission standards
>for their year of origin, not any 199* standards.
>
>Plus, it's my understanding that the constitutionality -- Believe it or not,
>Ed, there *is* still a Constitution in full force in the US, just ask the
>Supreme Court :) -- and this means both US and State constitutionality --
>of some of the more Draconian bills being put forth in other states (CA?)
are
>being challenged, and are not expected to pass; at least not as written.
>
>FWIW, here in Mass, any vehicle over 15 years old is exempt from emission
>tests, and AFAIK there are no bills in the State House pushing for anything
>more restrictive.

Tim,  Do you believe what those 2 faced liberal politicians are telling you?
 If you  want to talk about a "Constitution", lets go at it!   Our
constitution says it recognizes the existence of our natural right to own &
bear firearms. It does NOT give us that right.  Now, based on that, you still
can't walk into a gunshop and walk out with a loaded 44 magnum.  If you have
to kiss some bureaucrats ass to legally utilize a "Constitutionally
guaranteed right", is it really a freedom?
Tim,  You tell me where in the Constitution does it grant us the right to
drive a car of our choice?  If you honestly believe that these rabid
environmental politicians are going to give up before they have you riding an
electric bus, your fooling yourself.  If you do not believe me, take a look
around you.  Can GM legally build and sell a 1970 4-4-2 replica today?  Can
you legally remove pollution equipment from your car?  What is to stop the
Federal or State Govt. from telling you that:  "we are sorry, but your car is
not "environmentally friendly" it must be taken off the road."  Talk to your
lawyer, come back and quote for me the statute that will prevent this.  Have
you ever heard of the frog being dropped into a pot of hot water? It will
jump right out.  But if you place the frog in a pot of water and slowly crank
up the heat, it will be cooked before it can jump away!  That is the liberal
philosophy, they know they can't do it all at once, we would rebel.  If you
want to stoop to the level of insults, go ahead, I prefer to debate.  Ed
   Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:27:58 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: No Politics Allowed

Lads...

I don't care what side of the issue you're on with this one... don't
debate it here PLEASE! Political discussion is one of the things that you
WILL take outside the list at risk of being booted.

This applies to everyone and I'm afraid I will need to be ruthless on
this one. Courtesy, respect and on-topic please. Posting guidelines will
follow as a reminder to all.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:32:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim's friendly government

Escape442@aol.com wrote:

> Tim,  Do you believe what those 2 faced liberal politicians are telling
> you?

<JUMPINGIN>

Not to be confused with the 2 faced conservative politicians.

> If you  want to talk about a "Constitution", lets go at it!   Our
> constitution says it recognizes the existence of our natural right to
> own & bear firearms.

Amendment II says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the
security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
shall not be infringed."

> It does NOT give us that right.

Of course, it says the government can't keep you from owning them.

> Now, based on that, you still can't walk into a gunshop and walk out
> with a loaded 44 magnum.

Major logical and argumentative jump...

The Preamble: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more
perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide
for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the
blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and
establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

So preventing any looney from buying an automatic weapon may fall under
"domestic tranquility" and/or "promote the general welfare"

> If you have to kiss some bureaucrats ass to legally utilize a
> "Constitutionally guaranteed right", is it really a freedom?

In other words, you're saying that because you can't instantly purchase a
Saturday Night Special without demonstrating your not a kook, your right
to bear arms has been abridged?  Do you make these same arguments to the
DMV when your right to travel has been abridged by the necessity of a
licence plate?

> Tim,  You tell me where in the Constitution does it grant us the right
> to drive a car of our choice?

Amendment 442, isn't it?

> If you honestly believe that these rabid environmental politicians are
> going to give up before they have you riding an electric bus, your
> fooling yourself.

Rabid?  Kinda counter to you comment below about insults, is this Ed?

> Can GM legally build and sell a 1970 4-4-2 replica today?

A "replica"?  Legally, yes.  The identical car?  No.

> Talk to your lawyer, come back and quote for me the statute that will
> prevent this.

You're asking him to quote chapter and verse of statute that will protect
you from a non-existant law that *might* remove your car from the road?
Ever hear "You can't prove a negative"?

<SNIP OF FROG CRUELTY>

> That is the liberal philosophy, they know they can't do it all at once,
> we would rebel.

The liberals have no corner on this market, Ed.

> If you want to stoop to the level of insults, go ahead, I prefer to
> debate.

We won't if you won't (any more)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:37:55 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: No Politics Allowed

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> I don't care what side of the issue you're on with this one... don't
> debate it here PLEASE! Political discussion is one of the things that
> you WILL take outside the list at risk of being booted.

Oops!  Sorry...

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:37:55 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: No Politics Allowed

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> I don't care what side of the issue you're on with this one... don't
> debate it here PLEASE! Political discussion is one of the things that
> you WILL take outside the list at risk of being booted.

Oops!  Sorry...

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: scott or sharon <jerdan@Erols.Com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:39:11 -0400
Subject: New member + TCS solenoid

This is my second post.  I guess my first post was rather short.  Just a
little history, my first car was a 70 Cutlass SX which I gave to my brother
when I joined the service.  While in the service I bought a beat up 70 W-30
which I barely kept running due to meager finances and a heavy foot.
Finally, had to sell that car for a reliable econobox to get to and from
school.  Finally, having always regretted selling the W-30, finances allowed
me to get another one this summer.  Just like my first 442 this one had oil
pressure problems and after pulling the motor, discovered a pretty scratched
up crank.  Anyway, I just got great news today.  The machine shop called and
my motor is ready.  I'm planning on putting the motor back in next weekend.
Do have a question though, does anyone know where I can find a Transmission
Controlled Spark (TCS) solenoid?  Didn't see one in Year One, Brothers, or
Super Cars catalogs.

Thanks,
Scott Jerdan
70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:56:18 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Posting Guidelines

Here's a repost of some guidelines for posting I originally sent out a
month or so ago. Please read.

- - Please, trim those follow-ups when you're replying to a post. Try to
only quote those portions that are necessary to make your point. We'd all
appreciate it. A 2000-character message that contains only a "I agree"
type response at the end is frustrating to read!

- - Special request to AOL clients: please consider going to the digest
version. Apparently AOL restricts the number of messages in your mailbox,
but not necessarily the total amount of space. It seems this week all I've
been doing is removing AOL'ers whose mailboxes are full. And no, this is
not AOL bashing, and no, this is not an opportunity for others to do so
either....

- - I appreciate the attempts by some to keep stuff Olds-related, but a lot
of those connections are tenuous at best. Remember, this is an Olds list.
It's a fine line, but chat about Tauruses, tanks or politics (for example)
is probably out of line. I'm just trying to keep the message volume at a
reasonable level. I appreciate that this is difficult at times, and I'm as
guilty as anyone of violating this guideline. And this isn't aimed at any
one person, just a general reminder to think before posting.

- - ALL CAPS is equivalent to shouting. Not welcomed. And please use
courtesy and respect in any posts to the list about *any* subject (even
F*rds)... ;-)

- - Finally (and not that this is a particular problem at the moment, but
worth reminding folks about) use private email whenever you're requesting
info from an individual about parts they have for sale, or if you are
having a personal disagreement about a post. If you're buying parts,
great, but we don't all need to hear the back-and-forth between the buyer
and seller regarding the transaction.

Thanks as always, and please drop me a note if you have any problems or
questions.

Greg Beaulieu      ab348@chebucto.ns.ca      Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: jeff antonucci <antonj@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:53:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Mustangs vs. W-41

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> Aren't the new Z24's and Sunfire's with the "Twin Cam" Olds engine pulling
> high 14's to low 15's in the mag's? Thought I read that somewhere.
> - - - - - - - - - - -
I read that too, and they only have 150hp - vs - 190hp for W-41.

Jeff.

------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:16:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Mustangs vs. W-41

>Jason Labay wrote:
>>
>> Aren't the new Z24's and Sunfire's with the "Twin Cam" Olds engine pulling
>> high 14's to low 15's in the mag's? Thought I read that somewhere.
>> - - - - - - - - - - -
>I read that too, and they only have 150hp - vs - 190hp for W-41.
>
>Jeff.
>
Could someone with horsepower formulas calculate for us how light a 150
horsepower car would have to be to run high 14's?  I'm thinking it would
have to be some sort of medium to heavy go-cart....
Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:18:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Axle mania

Your cars were obviously made in Georgia.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:53:29 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [Toro] Toro in "Automobile"]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Forwarded from the Toro List.
Mike

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From: Ted Edin <athong@students.wisc.edu>
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FYI:

In accordance with "Automobile" magazines' 10th anniversary there is a
small article of interest-->

In the Feb. '97 issue, on pg. 120 there is a pic. of a light blue '66 Toro
in their "A Perfect Ten" column.  It is between the '55 Benz gullwing and
'60 something Ferrari (2nd row).

Unfortunately, there is no commentary on the car.

A small victory for a monumental car!

BTW: I think this feature includes most of Bill's car collection. (:

- -Ted "Woodward" Edin




- --------------722C55955ABA--

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:18:58 -0400
Subject: Hydra Matic Super Drive

In a message dated 97-02-07 13:59:24 EST, you write:

> >Useless trivia: Doesn't the "S" in Park-R-N-D-S-L actually stand for
>  >"Super" in some cases, and not simply "Second"?

Oldsmobile started using the "S" range in '52.  They changed the name of the
tranny that year to Hydra-Matic Super Drive.  Hence the "S" stands for "Super
Range."  The quadrant read N-Dr-S-Lo-R.  No P.  Park was actually reverse
with the engine shut off.  Shutting the engine off threw out the parking
pawl.  Surprisingly, the '52 sales book doesn't tell you what "S" does, just
that it was to be used "when you want super performance."  The owner's manual
doesn't tell you much either.  I gave my shop manual to the guy who bought my
'52 Ninety Eight, but I think it said in there that S kept the transmission
in third up to something like 55 or 60 mph, then allowed it to shift into
fourth.  Lo was actually first and second, not just first.  Dr, naturally
allowed the trans to shift through all 4 ranges.  From a standing start,
these cars can go about 3 feet and they shift to second.  Then there's a long
pause until the shift to third.  Then just that quick they go into fourth.
 Super was evidently used to prevent the premature fourth gear upshift when
climbing hill and on powerful starts.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Escape442@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:23:29 -0400
Subject: Switch to Discks?

I would like some opinions on my restoration project.  The car is a '68 4-4-2
conv, it has manual drum brakes all around.  I would like to retain the
originality of the car, yet I plan on driving it quite a bit.   I have read
that this brake system is pathetic in road test articles.  I do not plan on
adding a power booster.  Is it practical to convert the front end to disks
without adding the booster?  Has anyone driven my original setup and have an
opinion to offer? Are there real soft linings which would help pedal effort.
I read that W-31's had a special lining material because of the lack of power
assist.  I also know that because of the asbestos crybabies, lining materials
have changed.  If I changed the spindles to get disk brakes, what years are
interchangeable? Just '68-'72?  Thanks,  Ed    Escape442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:31:36 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's

- ----------
> From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: A Few Q's
> Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 12:05 PM
>
> From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
>
> >   In my machine shop some of the cleanest engines I
> >have seen have had Castrol GTX and Quaker State in them and the nastiest
> >seem to always have Pennzoil in them. Maybe the Pennz users here just
don't
> >change their oil.
>
> Just curious, but by the time an engine gets to the machine shop, how
> do you know what mfg oil is in it?
Lots of the time I don't but I do a lot of work for the do it my self crowd
and it the engine is really clean or nasty I ask what oil they use.

------------------------------

From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:52:11 -0400
Subject: Re: What do these stand for ... S, 442, W-30, W-31, ..., Hurst

Jar Lyons wrote:

>Is there a simple correlation between these models and the
>configuration of the vehicle, or does it vary for each year.
>
>My understanding of 442 is that it evolved over the years
>to mean anything from ...
>   400 cu in
>   4 spd
>   2 (dual exhaust)
>to ...
>   455 cu in
>   4 barrel
>   2 (dual exhaust)
>depending on the year.

I think I read on the Olds FAQ that by the time the mid '80's 442's were
produced, it stood for 4 barrel, 4 wheels, 2 doors :-)

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:11:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Flames

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> > I have a brother at Harvard.  We have to send him care packages of brain
> > food as he seems to be losing cranial mass rapidly since moving there
> > last fall.  No one understands what is happening.
>
> Harvard has that effect on folks, particularly the Business school.
> Cranial Drain 101 is a pre-requisite to selling one's soul...
>
> BTW, what kind of brain food?  Grits, or hush puppies?  It's true there's
> no breakfast place around here that has grits, so I look forward to ordering
> them out when I'm south of the Mason-Dixon.  Of course, my Yankee upbringing
> always gives me away; since I was a kid I always put butter & sugar on 'em,
> never liked mixing in salt, pepper and my eggs like some of my Suthun
> relations...
>
> "Fish is good brain food!" -- Larry
>
> "You should eat a whale!" -- Moe
>
> Tim Churchill

Tim,

Poor Randy is a minister.  He is the white sheep of the family.  There
is a rumor that he is adopted.  There is this crazy streak though.  He
loves fast cars; especially Oldsmobile 442's.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:03:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)

david wyatt wrote:
>
> Mike,
> I was directly involved with the SM nats for the first 4 years.  At that
> time I said I'd never go back.

	<snip>
>
> On the plus side, some other club members went to the South Bend SM Nats
> the next year and enjoyed it.  Less people (under 2000), their ISCA
> winning Challenger won a trophy (a non tubbed car no less), and just a
> better atmosphere overall.
>
> Personally I will stick to antique type shows and musclecar shows with
> drag racing and stay away from the tubbed trailer queen crowd.  That is
> why the OCA appeals to me.
>
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2

Dave,

I have seen this attitude in every kind of event that you can name.
Sports can be only winning.  Restoring cars can be only getting that
trophy or discovering whether the hose clamp was 1/8 or 3/16" from the
lip of the hose.  It can go on & one

I personally never trailer my cars.  Cars are for driving.  If they
don't drive well, then I get rid of them.  Oldsmobiles usually drive
very well.

I love to get them as original or beautiful as I can.  They never quite
get as good as my imagination thinks that they can be, but they are fun.
When the fun stops, then so do I.

I work on my cars until the enthusiasm isn't there & I take a break.
The break may be until tomorrow or 3 weeks from now.  These cars are my
enjoyment.  They are in my barn for no other reason.  That competition
for competition's sake isn't for me.

Most local shows have one compete with his neighbor to see who is
better.  I prefer to go to have a good time & let the chips fall where
they may.

Most national shows have a standard to reach by every car.  Those who
reach certain standards are recognized by the awards.  Everyone has the
opportunity to win.  No one has to win.  There is no competition with
your friends.  The competition is with yourself to achieve the
standard.  I can live with that.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:36:43 -0400
Subject: Re: So Cal Olds

It's $12 a year and the rest of the info is on my web page.  I haven't
found any decent boneyards around this area since about '81 or so.  I have
a Canadian guy I get my parts from - I'll hunt around for his card & post
this info again (he is REASONABLE).


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:44:49 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's: Reply Again

  All i can tell you is what i know -- i have a Pinto that i have raced since
'93 the in the beginning i used nothing but Penzoil in it until i thought i
would try out some of that synthetic Valvoline stuff and promptly wiped my
camshaft out in less than 500 miles -- After making all of my repairs
including an aftermarket cam and springs and returning to Penzoil i've got
over 300 full power runs on the engine and about 30,000 miles with no oil
related problems.
  As far as oil weight if i run straight 30 weight versus 20/50 its worth a
solid tenth of a second in the quarter mile and two miles per hour.  My gas
mileage also increased from 20 mpg to 22 mpg when running straight 30 weight.
  So there -- dadburnit!!!

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:12:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Performance !

just a quikie response -- my 67 Olds with the 22ble 330 engine, Jetaway
trans, Pontiac 20 bolt posi with 3.36:1 gears, L60x15 tires, and a set of big
block headders ran 16.77 in the quarter running through headder mounted
glasspacks.
  I installed a Th350, and an Olds 12 posi with 4.33:1 gears leaving every
thing else the same the best time i ran was a 15.77 @ 87.98 mph -- i could
have run faster but the fuel pump died and didn't get to do any tuning to the
combo.

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch to Discks?

At 12:23 AM 2/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I would like some opinions on my restoration project.  The car is a '68 4-4-2
>conv, it has manual drum brakes all around.  I would like to retain the
>originality of the car, yet I plan on driving it quite a bit.   I have read
>that this brake system is pathetic in road test articles.  I do not plan on
>adding a power booster.  Is it practical to convert the front end to disks
>without adding the booster?  Has anyone driven my original setup and have an
>opinion to offer? Are there real soft linings which would help pedal effort.
>I read that W-31's had a special lining material because of the lack of power
>assist.  I also know that because of the asbestos crybabies, lining materials
>have changed.  If I changed the spindles to get disk brakes, what years are
>interchangeable? Just '68-'72?  Thanks,  Ed    Escape442@aol.com


Ed

        Any 68-72 would do, but really stay away from the 68's they have 4
piston calipers and are expensive and hard to find parts for. Try any 69-72
A-body GM, but get the entire system. I have done three of these conversions
and the results are great. The car will have much greater braking than those
crappy drums. Plus if they get real wet for some reason (like when my wife
flooded my 64 442 in 38 inches of water) it won't pull which ever way it
wants to. Like I said, make sure to get all the parts, brake lines,
spindles, proportioning block, and if you want to have manual  disc brakes
use a master cylinder for a W-30 stick or W-31. You can still find them at
you auto parts store.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
Virginia Beach,VA
(757) 474-0869 >

------------------------------

From: Chris & Robin Miller <cya442@INETWORLD.NET>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:23:23 -0400
Subject: Q-Jet Carb Question

I am in the market for a Q-Jet and have a question.  I am new to the
Q-Jet community but I do believe that they come in different cfm.
ratings.  Is there a way to tell or do I just look for a certain ID.
number and if so what is it and what cfm is it?  The carb will be going
on my '68 442 which has a 455 in it.

Thanks,
Chris Miller
cya442@inetworld.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:03:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Switch to Discks?

At 12:23 AM 2/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I would like some opinions on my restoration project.  The car is a '68 4-4-2
>conv, it has manual drum brakes all around.  I would like to retain the
>originality of the car, yet I plan on driving it quite a bit.   I have read
>that this brake system is pathetic in road test articles.  I do not plan on
>adding a power booster.  Is it practical to convert the front end to disks
>without adding the booster?  Has anyone driven my original setup and have an
>opinion to offer? Are there real soft linings which would help pedal effort.
>I read that W-31's had a special lining material because of the lack of power
>assist.  I also know that because of the asbestos crybabies, lining materials
>have changed.  If I changed the spindles to get disk brakes, what years are
>interchangeable? Just '68-'72?  Thanks,  Ed    Escape442@aol.com
>
>
In 1968 you could buy a Corv*tte with 4-wheel disc brakes, w/o power assist,
and I expect that the Vette would out weigh the 4-4-2 too.

Also in response to the asbestos 'problem' (is this too political?) clutch
and brake lining materials underwent change.  And I think in many cases for
the better.

Actually I doubt it is really that hard to add power to the disc brakes if
you're going to convert to discs.  You are doing quite a bit of work
already, and why not consider power too, as originality is obviously not in
question here.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:15:29 -0400
Subject: Re: A Few Q's

At 12:31 AM 2/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>> From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: A Few Q's
>> Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 12:05 PM
>>
>> From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
>>
>> >   In my machine shop some of the cleanest engines I
>> >have seen have had Castrol GTX and Quaker State in them and the nastiest
>> >seem to always have Pennzoil in them. Maybe the Pennz users here just
>don't
>> >change their oil.
>>
>> Just curious, but by the time an engine gets to the machine shop, how
>> do you know what mfg oil is in it?
>Lots of the time I don't but I do a lot of work for the do it my self crowd
>and it the engine is really clean or nasty I ask what oil they use.
>
>

Oil, oil filter, and air filter change intervals have a great deal more to
do with the condition of the inside of the engine than oil brand has (and
read this as BRAND not GRADE).  With 'major refinery brands' all the brite
stock and additives are pretty much the same (for the same grade).

I think you have made an interesting case about Penzoil, but the question,
even in your assesment, is change interval not brand.

Also, a day or two ago (I can't let this one go I guess) someone mentioned
that some particular brand of motor oil was the last one that was 'organic.'
If YOU were the one, please read.  As I remember in from my 'Organic
Chemistry' classes of about 30 years ago (the first time I worked on my GED
by the way) and (with time some things turn slightly grey) 'organic'
materials are those that contain CARBON.  And while there may be some
hi-tech lubricant that is based on some other molecule, such as silicon,
every can of motor oil that originated from an oil well is ORGANIC.  This
includes the synthetics such as Mobil 1; which in my opinoin is not worth
the cost.  I would rather see someone use less expensive brands and change
their oil more often.  I really believe that this provides much more bang
for the buck; and which preserves the engine better and longer.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:28:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Street Machine Nats (was Mid engines)

At 01:03 PM 2/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>david wyatt wrote:
>>=20
>> Mike,
>> I was directly involved with the SM nats for the first 4 years.  At that
>> time I said I'd never go back.=20
>
>	<snip>
>>=20
>> On the plus side, some other club members went to the South Bend SM Nats
>> the next year and enjoyed it.  Less people (under 2000), their ISCA
>> winning Challenger won a trophy (a non tubbed car no less), and just a
>> better atmosphere overall.
>>=20
>> Personally I will stick to antique type shows and musclecar shows with
>> drag racing and stay away from the tubbed trailer queen crowd.  That is
>> why the OCA appeals to me.
>>=20
>> Dave Wyatt
>> 70  4-4-2
>
>Dave,
>
>I have seen this attitude in every kind of event that you can name.=20
>Sports can be only winning.  Restoring cars can be only getting that
>trophy or discovering whether the hose clamp was 1/8 or 3/16" from the
>lip of the hose.  It can go on & one
>
>I personally never trailer my cars.  Cars are for driving.  If they
>don't drive well, then I get rid of them.  Oldsmobiles usually drive
>very well. =20
>
>I love to get them as original or beautiful as I can.  They never quite
>get as good as my imagination thinks that they can be, but they are fun.
>When the fun stops, then so do I.
>
>I work on my cars until the enthusiasm isn't there & I take a break.=20
>The break may be until tomorrow or 3 weeks from now.  These cars are my
>enjoyment.  They are in my barn for no other reason.  That competition
>for competition's sake isn't for me.
>
>Most local shows have one compete with his neighbor to see who is
>better.  I prefer to go to have a good time & let the chips fall where
>they may.
>
>Most national shows have a standard to reach by every car.  Those who
>reach certain standards are recognized by the awards.  Everyone has the
>opportunity to win.  No one has to win.  There is no competition with
>your friends.  The competition is with yourself to achieve the
>standard.  I can live with that.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>

Bill,

I'm the editor of the Willys-Overland-Knight Registry's newsletter, which
allows me some additional insight to why things are the way they are; when
dealing with the 'establishment' of car collector groups of long time
standing.  At the W-O-K-R, they only deal with Willys products, any vehicle
with a sleeve valve engine (especially Knights), and all Stearns cars,
whether Knight engined or not.  They limit their club to cars built thru=
 1942.

At their annual meets, everyone is REQUESTED to bring their cars.  EVEN cars
in PROCESS.  If you want to see an old car groups annual meeting that is
different, these are.  Many of the collectors would like to see a 50%
finshed job, as much; and maybe more, than a completely finshed job.  And
they DO NOT JUDGE the restorations.  They're just there to have a good time,
talk about a common thread; in this case mostly Knight engines and Willys
cars.  And I expect they all have a better time that the guys with the big
bucks that do a $125,000 restoration on a car that would not bring $50,000.
at auction; even though it's 100 points and perfect.

Cars show up at this National event that are highpoint restorations, to barn
fresh and parts cars.

They are there to have fun and do; not to see who spent the most $.

I hope that this was worth my 2=A2.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Junior627@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:36:14 -0400
Subject: yet another muff question

i want to put a high flow muff on my 85 delta 88 v6 231 3.8L but i have not
got an good enough answer...some say to go with the cherrybomb glasspacks,
some say go with a walker...i am looking for low cost with decent flow and
nice sound...i want to set it up something like this...

                         | |
                         | |
                       |     |
                       |     |  Cat.
                       |     |
                         | |
                         | |
                         | |
                       |     |
                       |     |  ?????Muff.?????
                       |     |
                       |     |
                        || ||
                        || ||    split pipes
                       //  \\
                      //    \\
                     //      \\
                     ||       ||
                     ||       || sorta dual exhaust

What do you think of this layout?

- --------------------------------
Nicolo A. Michelli Jr.
Junior627@aol.com
1985 delta 88
V6 231 3.8L Rwd
- --------------------------------

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 06:40:05 -0400
Subject: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

Well, it was bound to happen, and tonight it finally did.  While cruising
town (at ~2 AM) I noticed a car behind me having troubles finding the
centerline, although it appeared it was trying fairly hard.  I commented to
the guy riding with me to check out that car behind us...  He's ~loaded!~  I
sped up a bit and got closer to the car in front of me...  About the time
the light in front of him turned red.  He stopped.  I stopped.  I looked in
the mirror and waited.  Will they see me?  They seemed to be slowing down...
Uh, oh.  Bang...Ouch...  I got nailed hard.  Hard enough to knock my CD
player out of its mounts, and the woodgrain trim (that normally covers the
radio) came out with it.  My lighter plug ended up on the console.  I was
impressed, it was a good hit!  :(  She apparantly didn't plan on sticking
around, though, 'cuz she put it in reverse and backed out of my car, but
stopped because there was a pickup right behind her.  She wouldn't have
gotten far, though, cuz there was a cop behind the pickup, and the cop told
me that ~they~ saw the parts flying from clear back there!  (They were, of
course, all ~her~ parts!  Mine stayed on...)  I'm fairly certain she got a
DUI.  Expired plates, but (supposedly...Hopefully) current insurance.  Her
early 90's Fiero took quite a beating out of the deal.  Her lights were on,
and the headlight covers ended up on the street, along with her license
plate (which would have ~really~ amused the hell out of me if she did
succesfully take off...)  Her hood is wrinkled pretty good.  She got the
worst of it.  My bumper is bent in and down about three inches, and the
plastic bumper cover is close to a(n) historic relic.  Its still there, but
it looks rather odd.  There are two wide red stripes running up it, and two
matching stripes on the bumper.  The trunk and wing didn't get hit directly
as far as I can tell in the dark, but the trunk does seem crooked in it's
opening.   I'll know more in a day or so, when I can inspect in the light.
Structural damage is unknown at this time.  I'm praying this lady has a good
insurance company/policy.  I'm wondering how they're going to match up to
that dull, faded green...

I left three foot skidmarks from her shoving me foreward.  She left ~none!~
Her night on the town is gonna cost her quite a bit.  It was kind of amusing
when the cop went up to her car.  She was fidgeting around under the seat
when he got there.  He told her "Forget it, ma'am, I've already seen the
bottle down there."  She had a puzzled/dissappointed/scared look on her face
about that time....  Gotta pay to play, lady.  I just hope her insurance
can!  Better go now, I'll keep ya'all posted.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 06:41:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

I sent this once before, but never noticed it come back up.  Never saw any
responses, either, so I'll send it again, just in case...


          < < < S N I P > > >


>455/425/400  Offenhauser 2-4bbl. low rise intake w/2 carter 550 cfm carbs.
>(Complete setup) $350.00

Anyone have any experience with this setup?  It sure sounds interesting, but
I can't see it being very streetable on the low revving (as compared to the
10000 RPM that dual quads are reputed for...) big blocks.  In decent shape
I'm sure it's worth that, but I have to wonder if it'd be feasible to wring
out any more power from it than from a standard four and decent intake.  The
low rise makes me think it's not much of a "tunnel ram" which may make a
more low end performer, but I guess that would depend on the plenum design,
mainly.  I'm sure tempted, for no other reason than to say I have it, ya
know, 'cuz it sure would look awesome polished up and buried under the hood
in the Rockit.  Any thoughts, clues, ideas, suggestions?   Thanks...

Later.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:43:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Parts For Sale (New List)

At 06:41 AM 2/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
455/425/400  Offenhauser 2-4bbl. low rise intake w/2 carter 550 cfm carbs.
(Complete setup) $350.00

Anyone have any experience with this setup?  It sure sounds interesting, but
I can't see it being very streetable on the low revving (as compared to the
10000 RPM that dual quads are reputed for...) big blocks.  In decent shape
I'm sure it's worth that, but I have to wonder if it'd be feasible to wring
out any more power from it than from a standard four and decent intake.  The
low rise makes me think it's not much of a "tunnel ram" which may make a
more low end performer, but I guess that would depend on the plenum design,
mainly.  I'm sure tempted, for no other reason than to say I have it, ya
know, 'cuz it sure would look awesome polished up and buried under the hood
in the Rockit.  Any thoughts, clues, ideas, suggestions?   Thanks...

Charlie

        I've run it on the street. The W-30 it was on was dragged alot and
turned some low 12 sec ET's, but was driven pretty regularly. It sucks more
fuel of couse, but the low end torque with the smaller 500-550 cfm carbs
keeps throttle response up. This Offenhauser is called the 360 degree. It
has no other markings other than brand name. By the way I found all the
linkage.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:46:24 -0400
Subject: Re: yet another muff question

Flowmaster sells a three chamber muffler for the Chevy truck that may suite
your needs, it a 3" single inlet and dual 2 1/4" outlets.  It's kinda pricey
though, last time i checked it was around $80.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:52:45 -0400
Subject: Re: New member + TCS solenoid

>does anyone know where I can find a Transmission
>Controlled Spark (TCS) solenoid?  Didn't see one in Year One, Brothers, or
>Super Cars catalogs.

I ~don't~ have one of these solenoids, but I would like to know what it
does.  Can someone please explain its purpose and function?

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:02:59 -0400
Subject: Lingenfelter auction

Got a flier from Lingenfelter Engineering yesterday.  They're having an open
house and auction February 21 & 22.  I wouldn't have posted anything about
it here, but as I was glancing through the flier, I saw that they had a Quad
4 engine listed.  It says "Olds Quad Four HO take out engine w/injection and
transaxle very low miles".  No price listed for a starting bid.  Might be
worth looking into for someone looking for a Q4 engine.

Lingenfelter has a WWW page at:

www.lingenfelter.com

and their phone number is 219-724-2552, and you can request a full list of
items by calling them.  The open house will be Thursday, Feb 20, 9:00a -
5:00p.  The auction will be Friday & Saturday, Feb 21 & 22, starts 10:00a
Friday, 9:00a Saturday at their facility in Decatur, Indiana.

- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:28:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Carb Question

>I am new to the
>Q-Jet community but I do believe that they come in different cfm.
>ratings.  Is there a way to tell or do I just look for a certain ID.
>number and if so what is it and what cfm is it?

Yes, they do come in different CFM ratings.  750 and 800 or 850 I believe.
The lower CFM carb has a 1 3/16" primary venturi throat, the higher rated
carb has a 1 7/16".  That's the only way I know to tell them apart.

Someone else may know an easier/better way...


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@quix.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:48:19 -0400
Subject: 1967 OLDS DELTA 88 ...61 OLDS WONDERBAR RADIO

    To whom it may concern; i am parting out a 1967 delta 88. no motor or
trans, but no rust and  very decent rocker moldings, trunk end trim,
taillite lenses and housings.
  Also have nice wonderbar radio for ;61  98 and full set of gauges etc.
email to maldana@quix.net or 619-357-0713    thank you  mike aldana

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:00:40 -0400
Subject: Re: BUMPER STICKERS

Bumper Stickers found on various 4-42s.

        "Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine."

        "I love cats... they taste just like chicken."

        "Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."

        "Cover me. I'm changing lanes."

        "As long as there are tests there will be prayer in public schools."

        "Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot."

        "Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let him sleep."

        "I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather... Not screaming and
        yelling like the passengers in his car..."

        "I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a
vegetarian."

        "Don't blame me - I'm from Uranus."

        "Your kid may be an honor student but YOU'RE still an IDIOT!"

        "It's as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you."

        "Smile, it's the second best thing you can do with your lips."

        "Friends don't let friends drive Naked."

        "Wink, I'll do the rest!"

        "I took an IQ test and the results were negative."

        "Where there's a will, I want to be in it!"

        "Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check?"

        "If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"

        "Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students!"

        "It's lonely at the top but you eat better."

        "Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear."

        "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

        "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

        "Consciousness: That annoying time between naps."

        "I souport publik edekasion."

        "We are Microsoft. Resistance is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated."

        "Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home."

        "3 kinds of people: Those who can count & those who can't."

        "Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?"

        "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

        "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find
        a rock."

        "2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2."

        "I like you, but I wouldn't want to see you working with sub-atomic
        particles."

        "The gene pool could use a little chlorine."

        "Forget about World Peace... Visualize Using Your Turn Signal!"

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 06:05:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Newsgroup???

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
>
> > ...I have to read everything, even it's from Mike Frederick.  :-)
>
> ...and answer everthing.
>
>     66 Toro
> The /\   /\ and Mike
>

I believe that correct word is 'reply'.  I don't actually recall an
'answer'.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Of course this is based upon an 8 month observation.  Prior to this
there may have been an answer.

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:23:33 -0400
Subject: Re: yet another muff question

How about this????

	V-8  to get the true sound of a v-8,
              / /    \ \    you need a v-8
            / /        \ \  branching a v-6 will not make
           |  |         |  |   a great difference...
          (    )      (    )
          (    )      (    )  (2)cats
           |  |         |  |
           |  |         |  |
       |--   --|    |--  --|
       |        |    |        |  (2)turbos
       [_   _]    [_   _]
          |  |          |  |
         /   \        /    \

just a thought........  <;)

T Cleeton
'70 4-4-2 W-30 Convert.
- ----------
> From: Junior627@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: yet another muff question
> Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 2:36 AM
>
> i want to put a high flow muff on my 85 delta 88 v6 231 3.8L but i have
not
> got an good enough answer...some say to go with the cherrybomb
glasspacks,
> some say go with a walker...i am looking for low cost with decent flow
and
> nice sound...i want to set it up something like this...
>
>                          | |
>                          | |
>                        |     |
>                        |     |  Cat.
>                        |     |
>                          | |
>                          | |
>                          | |
>                        |     |
>                        |     |  ?????Muff.?????
>                        |     |
>                        |     |
>                         || ||
>                         || ||    split pipes
>                        //  \\
>                       //    \\
>                      //      \\
>                      ||       ||
>                      ||       || sorta dual exhaust
>
> What do you think of this layout?
>
> --------------------------------
> Nicolo A. Michelli Jr.
> Junior627@aol.com
> 1985 delta 88
> V6 231 3.8L Rwd
> --------------------------------
>

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:20:03 -0400
Subject: Non Olds but important

> To: Everyone on the list
> PLEASE READ AND ACT!  THIS AFFECT ALL OF US!
>
> List of House of Reps:
>
> 	http://clerkweb.house.gov/members/house.htm?57,22
>
> List of Senators' published email addresses:
>
> 	http://www.senate.gov/senator/membmail.html
>
>  I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter
>  currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has
>  filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
>  internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
>  operation of the telephone network.
>
>  It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were
>  required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an
>  email box for your comments, responses must be received by February
>  13, 1997. Send your comments to
>
> 	isp@fcc.gov
>
>  and tell them what you think.
>
>  Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak
>  it in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone you know here
>  this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.
>
> 	isp@fcc.gov
>
> Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all
> our voices may be heard!
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:52:03 -0400
Subject: Re[3]: Auto Tranny question

Kurt asked:

BTW, does this mean I can only have super performance when I use the
left side of my dual gate?  The left side is labeled "L S D" and the
right side (the performance side) is labeled "1 2 3".


     I guess if you're using the "LSD" side, you probably don't care about
     whether or not you have "super performance" ;)

     Joe "Timothy Leary's dead" Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:53:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mid Engines


Tom Stoner notes:

As I recall, the mid engined 442 WAS built by Bill Porterfield.  I
don't recall that he had any connection with Kelmark Engineering, but
he probably did.  I did visit Kelmark once, to look at their mid-
engined kit car.  I believe that it used a tube chassis with the
whole Toronado drive train and front suspension mounted in the rear.
I don't recall any VW heritage to the car at all, but perhaps it did
use the front suspension from a Beetle.  I might still have their
sales information in my files.  I'll have to see if I can find that,
this weekend.

     Actually, I also had the hots for a Kelmark back in college.  I
     also ordered the info package.  The Kelmark was originally
     designed to fit on a VW floor pan, just like all the other kit
     cars, however, Mid Engineering (I'm pretty sure this was
     Porterfield's company) offered the aforementioned tube frame
     which accepted the Toro drive.  You are correct, it did use the
     whole Toro front suspension, including the a-arms and torsion
     bars, in the rear.  The tie rods were fixed to the frame,
     providing an easy way to adjust the toe-in on this IRS.  I
     believe you are correct about using the VW front suspension,
     also.  I also ordered the info package from Mid Engineering and
     have that buried somewhere.  I seem to recall that Porterfield
     took the Kelmark to a test track somewhere (Ohio, perhaps) and
     set a top speed record for a kit car.  In fact, I think Car
     Craft did a story about driving to the Street Machine Nationals
     with Porterfield and a convoy of Kelmarks (some Toro-powered,
     some VW).  I think they used a Custom Cruiser as the mothership.

     Between the Kelmark and the mid-engined 442, Porterfield also
     built a Toro-powered mid-engined T-bucket.  Do you detect a
     trend?

     BTW, I attended the Car Craft Steet Machine Nationals in 1980 at
     Devonshire Downs in Northrige, CA and I remember a Japanese mini
     truck with a Toro drive in the bed, under a cover.  He also
     grafted the whole Toro frame section onto his truck frame.  Under
     the hood was the gas tank and the nitrous bottle!

     And while we're talking about mid-engined cars using Toro
     drivetrains, my all-time favorite is from an ancient issue of
     Petersen Publishing's Big Book of Engine Swapping (from ~1974).
     A Porsche mechanic had taken a 912 (basically a 911 with a 4-cyl
     (wait for it) HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED engine) and dropped in a Toro
     drive unit (unfortunately with a mere 425 cu in).  Needless to
     say, he had to perform a bit of surgery on the Porsche floor
     pan, namely torching out everything behind the seats!  Of
     course, the sight of an Olds motor where the luggage space
     normally was tended to mar the sleeper image of the car, so the
     builder bought a bunch of old swap meet luggage, bolted the
     suitcases together, and cut out the underside to create a
     stealth engine cover.

     Even better, with the 425 balanced over the rear wheels instead
     of the 4 cyl hanging off the back, weight distribution of the
     car was _improved_, to the point that he was able to remove the
     100 lbs of lead ballast in the front bumper of the 912!  Hooking
     the Olds up the the stock Porsche muffler (OK, not the best for
     free flow, but keeping with the sleeper look), the car was
     actually quieter that stock.  And, of course, you have to keep
     the 912 emblems, 'cause it's only a little 4-cyl...

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Chicago video (was: Kathy Mattea...)

Scott, If that's the way to drive a 4-4-2, then it might interest you to know
that, there is one less 4-4-2 in the world, thanks to Chicago's destructive
commercialism!   Ed   Escape442@aol.com

     Naaaa.  Look closely at the video.  There are two different cars, a
     really nice 68 442 convertible for the closeups and what appears to be
     a Cutlass hardtop with the top cut off for the stunts.  The stunt car
     needs to be so radically modified to protect the driver that there
     almost always has to be more than one car for these types of filmings.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:52:53 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: DANGER..Coils Ahead

..I guess I should invent a spring compressor that will fit up or down
through one of the shock absorber holes...hmmm...maybe it's an idea....


     Sorry, they already exist.  I've got one.

     Another safety tip, by the way, is to wrap a chain around the bottom
     coil and the A-arm, just in case...

     The other thing to be aware of when installing springs is that there
     is a specific clocking of the end coil in the A-arm.  You will note
     that there is a small hole in the A-arm in the pocket where the lower
     spring coil sits.  The end of the spring should be visible in this
     hole.  The pocket in the A-arm is not flat but is contoured to accept
     the spring.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30



------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:13:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Ouch goes the Rockit  :(

I REALLY feel for ya' man.  I know how it feels!  Recently, a friend was
driving my '84 w/the 350 and had to go check on his car at the
transmission shop.  Well, the best local tranny shop is up on a narrow
(about 1 1/2 lane) hilly, twisty, road.  He crested the hill, and all of a
sudden there was a new-style mustang coming at him, quite fast.  I've got
to give him credit, he somehow managed to avoid a chain link fence, a
ditch and "most" of the Mustang at the same time.  She did, however, even
after he had moved enough out of her way where if she was going slower she
could have gotten by, nail the side of my car.  The guy at the tranny shop
said he saw her, and that she had "gapped it" at the botttom of the road
and didn't let off until she hit my car!  Unfortunately, I live in a
fairly rural town, and she is the police cheif's daughter.  No insureance
payments for me!  You should see the police report, it says "no fault"
plainly on the top.  She did get punished, particularly since this was
her 3rd wreck in a year since she got her license.  Her daddy took her
license until she passed a driver-safety course a coupla' month's ago, and
he didn't pay for her car to be fixed either.  After hitting my car, she
went on and sideswiped a tree.  You should see the poor squished up side
of that '96 Mustang she is still driving around.  Heh Heh Heh, best
revenge of all...  Of course, that's not quite so good when you consider
that I'm still driving around in MY Cutlass with the damadged 1/4 panel.
I was quoted $600 at the least for fixing it, but I know one guy that
sorta does body work (he's REALLY GOOD too) in his spare time that would
probably fix things for a case or 2 of a good brand of beer, plus the
price of parts.  Anyway, I hope that you are luckier than I was, and get
everything repaired from her insurance.  I hope that pretty lil' BB you
got under the hood is still O-K.

Peace Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu



On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, buehner wrote:

> I left three foot skidmarks from her shoving me foreward.  She left ~none!~
> Her night on the town is gonna cost her quite a bit.  It was kind of amusing
> when the cop went up to her car.  She was fidgeting around under the seat
> when he got there.  He told her "Forget it, ma'am, I've already seen the
> bottle down there."  She had a puzzled/dissappointed/scared look on her face
> about that time....  Gotta pay to play, lady.  I just hope her insurance
> can!  Better go now, I'll keep ya'all posted.
>
>
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>       500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
>       Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>       Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>       "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #507
********************************
