To:	"DDA.RFC-822=oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca/P=ABTLAB/A=ABTLAB/C=US" @ 
SSWGATE
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #550


oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 5 March 1997      Volume 01 : Number 550

I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
Re: Surreptitious subscriptions (was Re: )
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)
RWD (was:Re: Disc brakes)
Re: What's an EFI intake cost
Re:
3/5 Olds Item For Sale
Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque (eg Mercedes) for my wife's Cutlass Cierra
Re: Wiper adjustment
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)
RE: 1961 & 1957 manuals
RE: 1970 rear cutlass bumper
66 98 Rear Bumper
RE: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please
64 Vista Cruiser BIP
Re: Turbos & Heat
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)
For Sale Postings
[none]
Re: Wiper adjustment
Need info on '64 Olds 98
Re: Wiper adjustment
Re: Turbos & Heat
Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)
Re: Wiper adjustment
Re: Wiper adjustment
Found -- 65 Olds 98 -- it's gone but i got a few parts
Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)
65 98 Found
Re: 100th Ann. Info & more
65 98 Carb Tricks
Re: Fuel efficiency
Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off
Trans fluid changing
Re: 442 W-Dirty
Re:
e-mail address problem
Re: 64 Vista Cruiser
Re: Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)
More 100th Ann. info
turbos,heat,efficiency etc
Re: Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)
Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:34:00 -0400
Subject: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

>> I am getting 100's of email. I don't even own an olds. Some how I got on
your list by
>> enquiring about one. Please, take me off if you will. This is tying my
search >>practice up.  Please let me know you received this. Thanks so
much.

>A good example of why we shouldn't assume ignorance and take a "Serves
>'em right if they can't unsubscribe" attitude on this list, folks...



>Tim (Peace on Earth, Good Oil in Olds) Churchill

Off with his head!  No mercy!
Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:46:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Surreptitious subscriptions (was Re: )

Kevin Wong wrote:
>
> On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> > Finally, majordomo will not allow one email addres to subscr*be another.
>
> What if someone can 'speak' SMTP and knows how to use port 25 at
> favouritesite.com?  Can the majordomo software detect fraudulent mail
> headers?

Dunno, Kevin.  I don't have the code to majordomo, so I can't answer
that.  (Dave does, so maybe he knows.)  But I'd wager that it would not
be possible for *any* program to detect fraudulent data if that data was
in the exact format required.

But I was addressing the idea of accidental subscr*ption not email fraud.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:15:43 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, R Mullen wrote:
<original message quoted below>
> >> I am getting 100's of email. I don't even own an olds. Some how I got on
> your list by
> >> enquiring about one. Please, take me off if you will. This is tying my
> search >>practice up.  Please let me know you received this. Thanks so
> much.

Just FYI, this is not exactly true. I remember seeing the s*bscribe
notification come thru a couple of weeks ago from this address and
thinking that it seemed like an unusual domain name. But the guy *did*
s*bscribe himself.

Notice that you can't use the word "s*bscribe" in a message that
majordomo is handling. If you do, it bounces to me because it thinks you
are trying to sign up.

> >A good example of why we shouldn't assume ignorance and take a "Serves
> >'em right if they can't unsubscribe" attitude on this list, folks...
> >Tim (Peace on Earth, Good Oil in Olds) Churchill
>
> Off with his head!  No mercy!
> Scott Mullen

The only ones I have any sympathy for are those who have signed up and
now cannot get off easily due to some disfunction of their mail program.
I don't mind helping those folks, but if you're not reading the welcome
message or the periodic postings here about how this all works I fail to
see why it's my problem. But almost always, it eventually does become
one...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:24:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please

At 03:26 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Then I'm curious about tires: I have some 235 7? x 15 on it. I checked my
>>owner's manual and it says H78 x 15. What is the equivalence in metric size?
>>Where can I find such tires, and corresponding wheel hubcaps?
>
>The 235/75-15's you have are approximately what H78's would equate to; the
>metric measurement represents _size_, while the letter-system actually
>represents load-carrying capacity. Since you'd need a certain-size tire to
>carry a given load, and all tire manufacturers used approximately the same
>size tires, those letters came to be associated with specific sizes.
>Theoretically, however, you could have a well-designed tire that was
>smaller, but was still called an "H" because it could carry the load of a
>larger tire.
>
>Stick with the 235/75 or larger (255/70's should work as well, and give a
>"meaner" look to the car, if that's what you want) radial tires, and you
>should be happy.  BTW, the "75" and "78" refer to the "aspect ratio," or the
>ratio between the width of the tire and the height of the tire. The stock
>tires were specified as having a sidewall that was .78 or 78/100's the width
>of the tire. For all practical purposes, the 75-series or even a 70-series
>would fit the same.

I use 235/75R-15's on my '75 Delta 88.  I bought the "Broadway Classics"
from my local tire dealer, who was able to order them for about $80 each.
They have wide whitewalls look really sharp!



**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:55:57 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Just FYI, this is not exactly true. I remember seeing the s*bscribe
> notification come thru a couple of weeks ago from this address and
> thinking that it seemed like an unusual domain name. But the guy *did*
> s*bscribe himself.

Gee, what a shocker.

> I don't mind helping those folks, but if you're not reading the welcome
> message or the periodic postings here about how this all works I fail
> to see why it's my problem. But almost always, it eventually does
> become one...

Aye.  For everyones information, a copy of the Oldsmobile list welcome
message with the majordomo commands is posted on the Toro site at
http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/oldsrule.html (or for those sites that
are using it, you can click on the "List" button on the Oldsmobile side
of the Wonderbar).

So the next time somebody starts the unsubscr*be whine, send them
the URL and tell them to read it.  ...again

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mud Lab <dfsval@maracaibo.dowell.slb.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:07:24 -0400
Subject: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)

In addition to the message I sent last night:

The engine is a 455. It has 110 000 miles. I don't know if it had any major
repair done already.
I had a "tune-up" done last week, and everything was OK. They just replaced
the spark plug wires that were original and the distributor head.
What is HEI?
Is it difficult to change the transmission fluid on this type of car, can I
do it myself?

Thanks.

A. LACHATRE
Mud Lab Maersk Valiant
dfsval@maracaibo.dowell.slb.com

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:41:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)

At 10:07 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In addition to the message I sent last night:
>
>The engine is a 455. It has 110 000 miles. I don't know if it had any major
>repair done already.
>I had a "tune-up" done last week, and everything was OK. They just replaced
>the spark plug wires that were original and the distributor head.
>What is HEI?

HEI is High Energy Ignition.  Beginning in 1975 (at least for GM, I
believe), the old points-condesor distributor was replaced with an all
solid-state unit which gave better performance and needs no maintenance.
Even the timing rarely needs adjusting.

>Is it difficult to change the transmission fluid on this type of car, can I
>do it myself?

It's only difficult in sense that it's messy.  Put the car on jack stands
or ramps, loosen the transmission pan bolts, clean up the big mess of
spilled transmission fluid that invariably gets all over the floor no
matter how carefully you do it and how big a catch-pan you have, remove the
pan, replace the pan gasket (and filter, if appropriate), replace the pan
on the car, being careful to tighten the bolts in a cross-pattern and only
to the specified torque (a torque wrench is a great help here, as is a
service manual with the correct torque specs), and put in new fluid.  If
you don't have a torque wrench or service manual, just tighten the bolts
snug.  Or, as I once heard, just "snug" it, don't "fug" it.  Usually a
fluid replacement in this way requires only 3 quarts of fluid because it
doesn't get all the fluid out.  A full transmission overhaul would require
about 9 quarts, but no one ever does this unless the transmission needs the
overhaul.




**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:32:19 -0400
Subject: RWD (was:Re: Disc brakes)

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>

>I remember last year Car Craft ran a story on a RWD prototype Monte Carlo
>with a small-block 400 that Chevy was playing with.  Car Craft was putting
>together a petition to send to Chevy to encourage them to put the car into
>production.  Anyone know about that or about how Chevy responded? (Or IF
>Chevy responded.)  If something like that happens over at Chevy, it might
>spread to the other carmakers.

Speaking of rear wheel drive, a couple weeks ago in Autoweek, they mentioned
that the redesigned Eldorodo may be a rwd car.  They quoted the GM of Cadillac
as saying that the packaging style they were looking for dictated rwd.  If
they go to rwd, it may push back the redesigned car a year or two, to around
the year 2000.

So, Cadillac may have a 2 door rwd car soon.  Lets hope it comes with
a version of the Northstar engine.

- -Jeff

jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
1970 442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:44:24 -0400
Subject: Re: What's an EFI intake cost

At 10:33 AM 3/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Just got back from a junque yard this afternoon.  Had a question about olds
>multi-point EFI manifolds.  What is one worth.  The guy at the junk yard
>wanted $50 for the manifold and the throttle body.  I thought maybe this was
>kinda steep because the manifold really has no use and I doubt if he's ever
>gonna sell it.  I was thinking maybe $35 and I'm wondering if maybe i'm just
>cheap.  BTW does anyone know how to tell the difference between an aluminum
>EFI intake and cast Iron?  Is maybe the cast Iron one painted and the
>aluminum isn't?  I guess I'll have to take a magnet back to the yard.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Pruett
>`72 Vista-Cruiser
>
>
>
Greg,

Thats the kind of thing that's worth $50. or $100. maybe if you need it, and
worth zilch if you don't.  If you think it's worth having, for $35. and not
$50. then stick by your guns and offer $35. if not pay the $50. or forget
about it.  If you need one one day, you will probably be able to find it.

Cast iron weighs between 2 and 3 times as much as Aluminum, and is easily
discerned by picking it up.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:57:22 -0400
Subject: Re:

At 12:41 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>>
>> ...seem to have gotten themselves on by circuitous means--in other
>> words they didn't do it intentionaly.
>
>Kinda hard to belive that they did it by accident.  Since I've shared the
>administrative duties for the Toro List with Dave Voorhis, I know a
>little bit about this.
>
>You can't accidentially subscribe.  Period.  First, you must send a
>message to "majordomo" at (@) the domain name in question.  Second, you
>must send a message test of "subscr*be list name", such as "oldsmobile"
>or "toro-digest".
>
>Finally, majordomo will not allow one email addres to subscr*be another.
>If you try, the message is bounced to the list administrator for
>resolution.
>
>So while I agree we should let them loose whenever they request it, I
>wouldn't feel badly at all that they've swamped thenselves with email.
>It is a self-inflicted injury.
>
>    66 Toro
>The /\   /\ and Mike
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
Mike,

I agree with the your points.  However, my point was, people that are 1 of
the following:

1. Put on the list by a good friend, remember the Vermont College students a
couple of months ago.  I think this deed was done in the computer's owner's
absence.

2. The guy of two days ago that maybe got on himself, but was looking for
info on new Oldsmobiles, as he wanted to buy one.  He expected that he would
get a brochure from Oldsmobile, instead of 200 emails, mainly dealing with
silicone brake fluid and turbo-supercharging.  Anyway, I got 200 emails
Monday.

3. The people that join everything they find on the Net and have no idea of
what they are doing.

Instead of getting more and more irate messages from the miscreants, It
would be fine by me, if the powers that be, just removed them when their "I
can't figure out how to get out of this" messages start to appear.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Stoner" <tgstoner@mailgw2.pmr.med.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:29:49 -0400
Subject: 3/5 Olds Item For Sale

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to
sell:

1975 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual.  I bought this one new in
1975 and it's still quite clean and not very worn.  $40.00, plus
shipping. (3/5/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to
purchase this item or if you would like additional information about
it.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, MI                     |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:53:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Need a 200,000 mile plaque (eg Mercedes) for my wife's Cutlass
Cierra

At 03:34 AM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>My wifes' 1985 Cutlass Cierra is approaching the 200,000 mile mark.
>She's the original owner (first and only car).  The car is a bit lighter
>(read lots of rust) but still gets around.  Early-on, the car survived
>an insurance "totaling" accident, and for the past five years has
>withstood my maintenance activities.  I'm trying to obtain a plaque
>similar to those given to Mercedes that reach various mileage
>milestones.  I doubt Oldsmobile has an official mileage plague program,
>but was wondering if there were any ideas out there about obtaining a
>plaque.  Does anyone have an e-mail address for customer support at
>Oldsmobile?

Well, *I'm* of the opinion that any car which _doesn't_ make it to 200,000
miles should be fixed under warrantee...    ;)

I am absolutely certain that Olds doesn't have such a program, for a couple
reasons:

First, *so* many Oldsmobiles make it that far, that it's kinda
anti-climactic (if not by some superior quality in all cases, then at least
by sheer numbers; I'm sure that there are far more Oldsmobiles ten years or
older on the road today than Mercedes has *ever* produced for this country)

Second, it's apparent that the only interest Olds has in the owners of its
former products is convincing them that foreign cars are superior to
anything that Olds produced in the past (witness: "It's not your father's
Oldsmobile"), and that their new offerings are *almost* as good as those
foreign cars you might not be able to afford ("The Aurora: Thousands less
than a Lexus! [but the badge is almost the same!]").

I do think that they should have some kind of program recognizing a
quarter-million miles, a half-million miles, and so on. Of course, the
marketing wing of Oldsmobile (who seems to call the shots) would probably
see this as an embarrassment; after all, why would they be trying to
*reward* you with maintaining a car for 200,000 miles, when (in their eyes)
all that car is doing is preventing you from buying a NEW Oldsmobile?

See, traditions like that Mercedes one only develops customer loyalty, and
it is clear from their recent actions that Oldsmobile today doesn't want any
of that from _us_ (they have quite literally said that). They want customer
complacency, not loyalty.

I do admire anyone who can keep a car that they bought new on the road for
200,000 miles. Good job! Now, how much is it going to cost to bring the body
back into shape, so you can go for another 200,000?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Dana Taylor <dmtaylor@tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:04:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

>
> >When did they start keying the wiper?
>
> Dunno.  My '69 is keyed.

so is my 83 and 84 both.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:03:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)

At 09:41 AM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:07 AM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>In addition to the message I sent last night:
>>
>>The engine is a 455. It has 110 000 miles. I don't know if it had any major
>>repair done already.

I've got an untouched 109,000 mile 455 in my Toro, and aside from leaking
well-plugs in the carburetor (Oh, so *that* is why I'm getting 6mpg city...)
and the need for new valve seals, it runs beautifully.

If you have trouble starting the car after it has been sitting for a day or
so, your carburetor float bowls may be draining through a leak in the carb.
You'd know this, though, because of the excessive cranking to start the car
when cold.

[snip of explanation of HEI and its advantages over points-type ignitions]
>
>>Is it difficult to change the transmission fluid on this type of car, can I
>>do it myself?
>
>It's only difficult in sense that it's messy.  Put the car on jack stands
[snip of tranny drain procedure]

It is also possible (and messy) to get virtually all the fluid replaced by
disconnecting the trans cooler line to the radiator, directing its output to
a bucket, and adding fluid to the tranny as it pumps out the line. Some
shops do it this way (I forget who I heard did this), and this is certainly
something I'd pay someone else to do; it's not difficult, but it is messy
and tedious. Of course, you still have to remove the pan to get at the
filter; while the pan is off, perhaps you could install a pan with a drain
plug to aid in this procedure (which should be done every 15,000 miles, or
at least every other year if you don't drive that much).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "R.B. Short" <rbshort@barnessmithlewis.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:25:32 -0400
Subject: RE: 1961 & 1957 manuals

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC294F.9FD19900
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

   I would be interested in the 1956 Body parts manual - description,
condition, price ??
                         Thanks,
                         R.B. Short
                         rbshort@barnessmithlewis.com

- ----------
From: IRA H SIEGELMAN[SMTP:IRA_H_SIEGELMAN@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 1997 9:20 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 1961 & 1957 manuals

     Would anyone be interested in purchasing an original 61 parts and
     accessories (chassis edition) catalog and an original 56 master body
     parts manual?




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CoUVMQBZUAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcw4BzjjoEpvAFAAAgw4BzjjoEpvAEeAD0AAQAAAAUA
AABSRTogAAAAAMYN

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC294F.9FD19900--

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:44:52 -0400
Subject: RE: 1970 rear cutlass bumper

Everett, what is a good price to have straight bumper's rechromed?

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the....Past)
______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Tue, Mar 4, 1997 11:57 PM Subject: Re:
1970 rear cutlass bumper To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

Hi Stephen
  I have an NOS 70 front bumper $450.00 plus freight, I also have a rechromed
straight front bumper for $150.00 plus shipping. Only problem the rechrome
was on a car for two weeks and a small peel started in the center up near the
hood tongue. I had another one rechromed by another place and gave that one
to my customer and the original plater would not honor his warranty. The
bumper is real nice and the peel is very hard to detect.
  I will send a picture if you want. UPS is $20.00 for shipping


Everett


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------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:48:05 -0400
Subject: 66 98 Rear Bumper

Rennie
Suggest you call the Bumper Boys in LA, I just got one from them for (ulp)
$450 or 550 (can't remember, I didn't pay for it -- insurance co. did).
Anyway they seem to have them. If Hall's in Soldier, KS might have a decent
one for cheaper.

How did you wind up with a 66 98 convertible? Mine was my dad's.

cf

------------------------------

From: "Etzel Bobby" <Etzel.Bobby@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:07:34 -0400
Subject: RE: Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today)

I understand F*rd will bring back the T-bird in a few years based on the 57
T-bird. Just like they did with the Mustang. (Olds content) I still like my
442 better.

Bobby

70 442 (Escape Back to the...Past)
______________________________________________________________________________
_ From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Wed, Mar 5, 1997 1:52 AM Subject: Re:
Rejected and Despondent Car Owner (was: Where Olds is today) To:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

jones wrote:
>
> > I know it's not an Olds, but we've lost yet another RWD car... Too bad.
> >
> > Ryan Hehn
> > ryanh@docker.com
>
> I hate to see th T-bird go but I would rather it die than become another
> rice burner wanna-be. <snip>

Ya, but I read that the T-bird may come back in 2000...  How much do you
wanna bet that it'll be based on the Taurus platform?  It's almost like
Ford is taking lessons from the 'new' Olds management.

Oh well, at least they won't get ahead of everyone's favorite car maker!
(who is that again???)

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com



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------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:39:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible info needed, please

  A 235-60x15 is equivalent to a G60x15
  And a 235-78x15 is equivalent to a L78x15

------------------------------

From: Jim Hoekendijk <jim.hoekendijk@pi.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:52:59 -0400
Subject: 64 Vista Cruiser BIP

Dan,

I did not mistype the TRIMª whick is on on the Body Information Plate,
it does read 398 (I've double-checked!). So, does that mean anything
else then I allready know from you?

Thanks again for the info!
- --
Jim Hoekendijk, jim.hoekendijk@pi.net

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:31:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbos & Heat

Many snips>>

>> excess heat obtained on the fuels firing in the cylinder.  This means=20
>> that heat is ultimately the source of operation for the turbo charger.
>
>Agreed, Wiz.  Since a supercharger also gets its power from the heat of=20
>combustion, how do the efficiencies of these two methods of forced=20
>induction compare?=20

By logic, all things being equal, efficiencies must therefore be equal.  The
turbocharger is obviously a very efficient device.  Providing for
substantial engine output at very little parisitic loss.

>=20
>While a turbocharger can increase specific output substantially by=20
>allowing for a high volumetric efficiency, I do not think turbocharging=20
>changes the overall efficiency of an engine by significantly utilizing=20
>wasted heat.  If that were the case, this thermodynamic wonder would be=20
>standard on every automobile sold today, as the drive for lower fuel=20
>consumption is prevalent amongst all the manufacturers. =20

I think the reason that the T.C. is not universally used that the HP it
provides, while likely fuel efficient is also done at considerable cost.  If
you need 100 hp to properly motivate a vehicle, it is less expensive to do
it with a 200 c.i. engine, w/o T.C.'ing, than say a 100 c.i. engine w/T.C.
Cost is almost always the universal delimiter in automotive considerations.
If they can SELL a T.C. as an option, and then take this aforementioned 200
c.i. engine that naturally aspirated runs at 100hp, and with the T.C. boost
give the customer 150 hp for a price it might then be done.  However, for
standard equipment they will always do it the less expesnive way.

>With current=20
>technology, the efficiency of the IC engine has reached a limit,=20

I'm sorry here, I don't agree with this at all.  Consider what one gets with
a improved LT1 today, compared to the Ch*vy 350 of 20 or 25 years ago.  Give
them another 25 years, and I think we will be amazed at what they have
acomplished.  Necessity is the mother of invention, and raising the price of
fuel from 6-7=A2 (wholesale) in 1973 to 75-80=A2 per gallon today=
 NECESSITATED
engine efficency improvments.  I suspect that they are but on the cusp of
what is yet to come.

>automakers have resorted to reducing weight to meet their goals.  I'd=20

With this I agree totally, but obviously weight reduction was but one of
many aspects designed into improved fuel economy.

>appreciate any comments/corrections!
>=20
>Kevin Wong
>
>
Also my Roadmaster is back on the street.  I have not yet addressed the
computer chip, but the rest is a resounding success.  My exhaust expert
thought that stainless is a bit of overkill at this point, but suggested
that when the factory exhaust needs replacing, do it then.  I believe I'm
getting well over 300 hp with the changes too.  My brother wants to take it
up to Cummins and run it on their dyno.  Just might do that. And thanks for
your help on this rebuild, you made it a lot easier for me.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:37:36 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off (non-olds)

>snips

>The only ones I have any sympathy for are those who have signed up and
>now cannot get off easily due to some disfunction of their mail program.
>I don't mind helping those folks, but if you're not reading the welcome
>message or the periodic postings here about how this all works I fail to
>see why it's my problem. But almost always, it eventually does become
>one...
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

There is always someone that does not get the word.  And to paraphrase Harry
Truman, the buck has to stop somewhere!  Or we are going to wind up with 50%
interesting threads, 50% buy and sell, and 50% I want off postings; and
that's about 50% too much.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:47:10 -0400
Subject: For Sale Postings

I would like to suggest to those people that put things for sale on the list
do the following:

1. Put a PRICE on things. Don't ask if someone wants it.  Price it, and see
if you can get a check!  Or in worst case an offer.  If you don't know what
to ask, then start your ad and ask for pricing help.

2. Put your direct E-Mail address on it too.  I read the for sale ads with
prices.  I buy things, just yesterday I received in the mail a 1928
Oldsmobile chassis parts book, in very nice condition.

3. Post them once, or as things change; once a week.  I know that you can
get tongue tied with your mouse and get things going crazy, at least I can,
and I don't have a mouse; but a track ball:  but try for once anyway.

And everyone please get off the CAPS LOCK key.  Don't put ten or twenty
spaces between paragraphs, and why do some of these postings have the phone
book for header data.  I don't care if your working with ASCII, Baudot, or
Braille, or whether you do or do not have a verified address.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Death <dldeathe@mail.pittstate.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:50:41 -0400
Subject: [none]

I am not familiar with irc or chat rooms.
How do i get on the oldsmobile channel at dalnet?

------------------------------

From: "Craig J. Smith" <craigs@dancris.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:53:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

> >Hello all,
> >
> >My windshield wipers are resting about 3 inches high on the windshield
> >when in the "park" position.  I believe they should be on the cowl and
> >out-of-site.  Any advice on how to adjust these?
> >

I posted this yesterday and last night I did some work on the car.  I
first checked the distance of travel of the wipers and they appear to be
moving the correct distance.  So, if I was to remove the wiper and
replace it on the cowl the distance would be screwed up and the wiper
would hit the cowl everytime and not travel up high enough on the
windshield.  I read my service manual and it said that the when the
wipers are in the park position a cam type action takes place in the
relay unit and lowers the wiper onto the cowl.  In the trouble shooting
index it stated that if this problem was occuring the relay unit needs
to be replaced. :(


Craig Smith

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:15:46 -0400
Subject: Need info on '64 Olds 98

I'd like to hear from anyone who either owns one of these cars or
has what they consider to be expert knowledge of same for some off-line
questions that need answering. Please contact me directly at my email
address (see below).

                                        Thanks,
                                                Andy

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:50:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

>
> What year and model cars are having this trouble?
>
> The Wiz

Mine is a '69 442 Holiday Coupe.  My cam is keyed like a cam or crank on
the engine.  The key can not be relocated or removed.  Is there an
adjustment in the wiper linkage, or is the motor bad?  What do you
think?????

Shoe-Man

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:34:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbos & Heat

At 01:31 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Also my Roadmaster is back on the street.  I have not yet addressed the
>computer chip, but the rest is a resounding success.  My exhaust expert
>thought that stainless is a bit of overkill at this point, but suggested
>that when the factory exhaust needs replacing, do it then.  I believe I'm
>getting well over 300 hp with the changes too.  My brother wants to take it
>up to Cummins and run it on their dyno.  Just might do that. And thanks for
>your help on this rebuild, you made it a lot easier for me.

Congratulations on getting your Roadmasher back on the street! Let us know
how it runs on the dyno. Rumor has it that the rated hp of those LT1's comes
close to what that engine is putting out _at_the_back_wheels_!

Tell me, did they come with dual exhausts from the factory? The reason I ask
is that I'm looking to install true dual-exhausts on my '78 Electra, which
shares the same basic chassis with your Roadmaster, and I'd like to use as
many factory pieces as possible. Is the dual exhaust a true dual exhaust,
with two catalytic converters etc.? Or does it go through a single cat, and
then split off into two just after the converter? I'd at least like to have
the tailpipes to start with, and then perhaps fabricate the intermediate pipe.

One last thing: does your transmission crossmember have clearance for dual
exhausts on both sides, or just one "hump" on the passenger side? I'd like
to make my installation as factory as possible (well, aside from the head
pipes which must mate up to the Olds 403 exhaust manifolds, rather than to
the chevy manifolds).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:44:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 1973 Delta 88 convertible (addition)

> >Is it difficult to change the transmission fluid on this type of car,
can I
> >do it myself?
>
> It's only difficult in sense that it's messy ...
> Daniel A. Gulino

One (perhaps obvious) addition to Daniel's excellent advice: when changing
the tranny filter, be sure to use a new O-ring on the filter inlet tube. A
few years back a filter and gasket packages I've bought from did not
contain the O-ring.  I tried re-using the old one which soon resulted in
almost no drive or reverse while in gear (lack of fluid pressure from the
imperfect seal).  I could barely drive the thing (1975 88) up onto the
wooden ramps to re-do the procedure with a new O-ring.

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:38:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

Craig J. Smith wrote:
>
> the relay unit needs to be replaced. :(
>

Besides the relay, could a bad wiper switch cause this?

Shoe_Man

------------------------------

From: "Craig J. Smith" <craigs@dancris.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper adjustment

John Schumacher wrote:
>
> Craig J. Smith wrote:
> >
> > the relay unit needs to be replaced. :(
> >
>
> Besides the relay, could a bad wiper switch cause this?
>
> Shoe_Man

The service manual stated that either a bad wiper switch or poor
connections in the wiring can be the cause of many wiper problems.
I am going to take the cover off the wiper unit and see if the relay
switch is working properly as this should be fairly easy to see if the
unit is working.

Craig Smith

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:35:59 -0400
Subject: Found -- 65 Olds 98 -- it's gone but i got a few parts

  Well Folks i found a 65 Olds 98 in the junkyard on sunday -- the only thing
i was able to get off of it was the WCFB intake manifold and the carbureter
linkage -- it was gone when i went back on Sunday -- i think somebody bought
the whole car because it was the only car in the line that had disappeared
   Anyway... are there any carbureter adapters that will allow me to put a
Carter carbureter on it out there --- im thinking about experimenting with
the manifold like playing around with the plenum area just to see what
happens -- it only cost $5 what the heck right???
   Hopefully theres another Olds out there that's been saved from the fire
and brimstone of the crusher.
                                         J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:55:25 -0400
Subject: Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)

> I'm sorry here, I don't agree with this at all.  Consider what one gets with
> a improved LT1 today, compared to the Ch*vy 350 of 20 or 25 years ago.  Give
> them another 25 years, and I think we will be amazed at what they have

With regard to fuel economy, I believe most of the improvement (given
identical weight vehicles) is from lower overall gear ratios (overdrive),
and lockup torque converters.  Fuel injection can only add 5% at best.
When compared under similar driving conditions, the LT1 is no more
efficient than a 4bbl Olds 307; in fact the reverse can be true!
Although the sample is quite small, the cars are all in perfect
running order.  Here's an interesting comparison:

                Weight     Engine   Hwy MPG (U.S.)   Final drive
                --------   ------   --------------   -----------
'77 Fleetwood   4702 lbs    425       16-18 *19         2.28
'88 Brougham    4248 lbs    307       21-23 *26         1.96 (2.93*0.67)
'95 Fleetwood   4686 lbs    LT1       17-20 *21         2.39 (3.42*0.70)

The * denotes the best figure recorded (60mph, cruise set).  The '95 would
be doing a bit better if it had the standard 2.56 or 2.93 rear gears, but
this one has a 7000lb trailering package.  I've found the LT1 to be an
inefficient cruiser if its RPM is 2000 or over (> 70mph in this car) - it
is breathing 'too well' for constant use here.  The Olds 307 in the '88
offers great highway economy, as long as I stay in overdrive (max. 85mph
if there is a headwind <g>); gearing and lighter weight are at work.
The most interesting comparison is between the Cadillac 425 and the LT1.
They can be within 1 mpg, and the '77 has no lockup converter (in fact,
the factory stall speed is fairly high to compensate for the 2.28 ratio),
is carbureted, has no computer controls, has a larger displacement and has
a drag coefficient of 0.50 compared to 0.36 for the '95.  As far as
specific ouput efficiency (HP per cubic inch), the LT1 wins at
higher RPM due to its better breathing and higher compression ratio.  In
this comparison, taking weight and final drive ratio into consideration,
I'd say the efficiency with which fuel is used is about the same for these
3 engines!

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:55:26 -0400
Subject: 65 98 Found

Just a simple reminder that I found a 65 98 4 door in o.k. shape at
the SanJose, Ca., StVincent de Paul society about two weeks ago.

No idea what the price is, but it seemed, maybe someone has my post
from that weekend.

cf

------------------------------

From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:56:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Ann. Info & more

Paul & Group,

The Participation Award is included in the "Goodie Bag" that is guaranteed to
the first 2500 registrants.  This show is following all the rules that are
set by the Club Presidents for the yearly car shows that are held.  You are
right, you  will be spending money to participate in this event and travel to
this show.   As much as we would love to have you it will be up to you to
determine if it is really something you want to do.  There are many other
events happening at the same time here in Michigan and in Lansing all geared
around the 100th Anniversary.
I talked further with the Centennial Committee Chair just to make sure all
information I had given you was up to date and it is.  If you would like to
talk to him directly you can write:
Bob Jarboe
920 Townsend
M.S. 489-070-081
Lansing, MI 48921
517-885-1747

Hoping you will join us,
Heidi Magyar
Oldsmobile Division

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:53:31 -0400
Subject: 65 98 Carb Tricks

65 was the only year for the square bore (i.e. non-qjet) intake
manifold for the 425/455 big blocks. In theory this would fit a any
squarebore carb as I think as carter is.  I've never had this intake on
my 66 since it came with a qjet manifold and I have to maintain smog
stuff in Ca.

My solution to run a square bore holley was to use an adapter plate which
can be found for about 25-30 bucks in most speed shops. It does exactly
the job you're looking for, but get a few extra gaskets just in case
this more-complex-than-stock setup generates vacuum leaks. It hasn't
for me.

Hope this helps.

cf

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:28:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel efficiency

> With regard to fuel economy, I believe most of the improvement (given
> identical weight vehicles) is from lower overall gear ratios (overdrive),
> and lockup torque converters.  Fuel injection can only add 5% at best.
> When compared under similar driving conditions, the LT1 is no more
> efficient than a 4bbl Olds 307; in fact the reverse can be true!
> Although the sample is quite small, the cars are all in perfect
> running order.  Here's an interesting comparison:
>
>                 Weight     Engine   Hwy MPG (U.S.)   Final drive
>                 --------   ------   --------------   -----------
> '77 Fleetwood   4702 lbs    425       16-18 *19         2.28
> '88 Brougham    4248 lbs    307       21-23 *26         1.96 (2.93*0.67)
> '95 Fleetwood   4686 lbs    LT1       17-20 *21         2.39 (3.42*0.70)
>

> Kevin Wong

Another Intresting note.I had a 78 Fleetwood with 425 which I replaced
with a 1970 500 (easy swap) and milage actually picked up by 2 mpg
overall.
Went like a bat outa hell too.
Frank
70 442
71 442 W-30 convt
72 Cutlass S
90 LSC

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:51:58 -0400
Subject: Re: I've subscribed and I can't get off

Well, anyone that *can* "get off" by reading Olds mail must have an
abnormally high hormone count and should see a specialist...  :-o

Sorry, couldn't resist... ;-)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@gate.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:29:11 -0400
Subject: Trans fluid changing

>It is also possible (and messy) to get virtually all the fluid replaced by
>disconnecting the trans cooler line to the radiator, directing its output to
>a bucket, and adding fluid to the tranny as it pumps out the line. Some
>shops do it this way (I forget who I heard did this), and this is certainly
>something I'd pay someone else to do; it's not difficult, but it is messy
>and tedious. Of course, you still have to remove the pan to get at the
>filter; while the pan is off, perhaps you could install a pan with a drain
>plug to aid in this procedure (which should be done every 15,000 miles, or
>at least every other year if you don't drive that much).

Yes, I've done this to both of my cars.  You will need two people to do it.
First I pulled the pan and changed the filter, then put the new gasket on
and bolted the pan back up.  I filled the tranny, then added a half quart
extra fluid.  I disconnected the top fluid cooler line (if I remember
correctly..) and directed the flow into one of the quart tranny fluid
bottles.  My wife started the car and ran the tranny through the gears.
When the bottle was close to full, I yelled for her to shut the car off.
Then I added another quart to the tranny, and filled another empty one up
with the car running.  I think I used about 12 quarts, and the last few were
pretty clean coming out of the return line.  It is a bit messy, but appears
to be effective.  Don't forget to top off the fluid level in the tranny!


- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@gate.net

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 W-Dirty

 ...BTW it was sebring yellow like about three thousand
other W-30s.

Danny
______________________________________________________________________________
__

Hey..Hey..Hey  Dont forget I know where you live!!

Mike
70 W30 Meller Yeller and proud of it!!

------------------------------

From: Ryan <aardvark2@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re:

At 02:50 PM 3/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I am not familiar with irc or chat rooms.
>How do i get on the oldsmobile channel at dalnet?
>
>
>
If you don't already have an IRC client (like mIRC or pIRCh) the first thing
you have to do is go get one of those.  I recommend mIRC and you can get
that from http://www.mirc.co.uk.  When you start up mIRC, a list of servers
comes up and just click on one of the dalnet servers and click connect.
When it connects (a bunch of stuff will scroll by in the main window) type
/join ªoldsmobile (if that's what the channel is called, if not replace
oldsmobile with whatever the channel is called but keep the ª there).  If
you have any more questions you can send them directly to me if you want
(aardvark2@earthlink.net).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+      ,-~~-.___.                            +
+     / |   ,    \       Ryan Winters        +
+    (  )         O  aardvark2@earthlink.net +
+     \_/-, ,----'     _                     +
+        ====         //                     +
+       /  \-'~;     //                      +
+      /__/~|       //                       +
+    =(_____| (======)                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: jim helle <helle@dbeach.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:58:40 -0400
Subject: e-mail address problem

Ira H. Siegelman, trying to reach you about your radio, but your e-mail
addresss does not work.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:10:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 64 Vista Cruiser

In a message dated 97-03-04 20:37:41 EST, you write:

> TRIM 398 - are you sure this isn't mistyped, and should actually read
>  "938"?  If so, that would jive with what Paul said earlier in that your
>  car's interior color was/is "saddle."  The fabric was/is "morocceen."
>

Dan

398 is correct.  That' what my color and trim book says for Saddle.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)

At 04:55 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>is breathing 'too well' for constant use here.  The Olds 307 in the '88
>offers great highway economy, as long as I stay in overdrive (max. 85mph
>if there is a headwind <g>); gearing and lighter weight are at work.
>The most interesting comparison is between the Cadillac 425 and the LT1.
>They can be within 1 mpg, and the '77 has no lockup converter (in fact,
>the factory stall speed is fairly high to compensate for the 2.28 ratio),
>is carbureted, has no computer controls, has a larger displacement and has
>a drag coefficient of 0.50 compared to 0.36 for the '95.  As far as
>specific ouput efficiency (HP per cubic inch), the LT1 wins at
>higher RPM due to its better breathing and higher compression ratio.  In

Something that has come up before, in regard to the gas mileage penalty of a
455 compared to a 350, is the fact that the mpg potential of these engines
is very close, and any difference disappears under a heavy foot (just for
comparison, someone earlier this week was talking about getting 12mpg in his
307-powered 442, and in high-school my buddy's 140hp 305-powered T/A would
get 14mpg, compared to my 455's 13mpg).

You've got to remember that a car of a given weight and wind resistance is
going to require a set amount of hp to maintain that speed. Since gasoline
has the same potential energy, whether it is being fed into a 350 or a 455,
the difference comes into play as to how efficient then engine in question
is at converting an amount of gasoline to that specific amount of hp
required to keep the car at that speed.

The difference between the 350 and the 455 will be the amount of
throttle-opening at which they produce that same amount of hp under the same
load, and their efficiency at that throttle opening. HP curves are usually
measured under wide-open throttle, but there are also hp curves for
half-throttle, quarter-throttle, etc., but of course these hp curves at
lower throttle openings are not exactly linear (i.e. max torque and hp will
not be at the same rpm as they are at WOT). What you want is design an
engine that produces its max hp at the rpm the car will be cruising at, with
the least amount of throttle opening.

Thus, if you need 10hp to drive a car at 55mph, the power curves for 1/16,
1/8 and 1/4 throttle may all pass the 10hp mark, but it is more likely that
the 1/16 throttle curve will have that 10hp point as its peak, whereas the
1/8 and 1/4 would ultimately produce more power.

Given the same volumetric efficiency, a 350 will require more throttle
opening to produce the same hp that a 455 would at a lesser throttle
opening. The problem of comparison, however, comes in because the max
efficiency of an engine, due to mixture distribution, fuel atomization, port
velocities, etc., makes it possible that an engine would be more efficient
in producing that 10 hp at 1/8 throttle rather than at 1/16 throttle.

So, the moral of the story is: ALWAYS swap in a 455 if it will fit!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:17:25 -0400
Subject: More 100th Ann. info

Ok everybody (list people and Heidi

Listen, to you hear that noise?  Listen carefully.  That is the fluttering
sound of the crow that I am about to eat.

My sincere apologies to Heidi for my nasty comments of yesterday.  I have
again leapt before I looked.  Thank you for doing some more research and
posting your findings to the list.  I understand that you are not part of the
Centennial Committee and cannot know all of the goings on.  I hope you didn't
take any of post personally, as it was not intended that way.

I had a very pleasant conversation today with Bob Jarboe, which is something
that I should have done before entering my post last night.

Here's what Bob had to say:

As of today, there are 815 registrations.

Plant tours will be on a first come, first served basis.  There will be a
sign up sheet located at the Lansing Center.  Sign up early if you want to go
on a tour.  One of these tours may include the plant where the electric car
is being built.

There will be an award ticket in your goodie bag.  The ticket can be taken to
the Lansing Center where you will exchange it for your Participation Award.
 Since I opened this can of worms, I may as well tell you all that I know
about it.  I don't think Bob would mind, as you could call him and he would
probably tell you the same thing he related to me.  The Awards will be
numbered 1 thru 2500.  Bob said that after 2500 are made, "they're going to
break the mold."  The awards are being kept at the Lansing Center because of
they're value and desirability.  While they are not "valuable diamonds" their
value is about $40 a piece.  Understandably, Bob did not want to tell me what
the award was, as it is to be a surprise to everyone.

Bob also told me that he believes the goodie bags and registration items will
be able to be picked up in your hotel lobby.  There will be a representative
of Oldsmobile at each hotel to take care of this.  I thought that was real
thoughtful, not making us run around looking for the registration area.

So there ya go.  Paul's made a fool of himself again.  Please don't clutter
up the list with responses to my original post, as I consider the matter to
be settled.

Paul
Falling off the soap box...

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:22:15 -0400
Subject: turbos,heat,efficiency etc

A look through any textbook on thermodynamics will tell you that the IC engine
 cycle is only 27% efficient (thermodynamically).  That doesn't account for
the fact that better than 50% of the gas you buy goes to heat up your brakes!
Efficiency has come a long way, and aerodynamics have also played a part.  I
believe that we are rapidly approaching a limit.  There has to be a more
efficient way to get around.

Pat

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:28:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel efficiency (Re: Turbos & Heat)

Snips-a-plenty

>                Weight     Engine   Hwy MPG (U.S.)   Final drive
>                --------   ------   --------------   -----------=20
>'77 Fleetwood   4702 lbs    425       16-18 *19         2.28
>'88 Brougham    4248 lbs    307       21-23 *26         1.96 (2.93*0.67)
>'95 Fleetwood   4686 lbs    LT1       17-20 *21         2.39 (3.42*0.70)
>
>I'd say the efficiency with which fuel is used is about the same for these
>3 engines!
>=20
>Kevin Wong
>

I agree that these three engines are probably fairly representative, and
similar in regards to fuel efficiency etc.  I have recent experience with
three very similar engines.  I have no idea as to the OAW or rear axle=
 ratios.

1. '84 Delta 88 w/307 4bbl TH200 20-22 highway mpg, less power than a Honda=
 50.

2. '84 Delta 88 W/455 4bbl TH350 16-18 highway mpg (same car as 1, engine
and tranny transplant) power more than plenty, and worth the fuel economy
degradation.

3. '96 Roadmaster w/LT1 about 22-23 highway mpg on short run figures (less
than 2000 miles after breakin) and no city driving to blurr the figures.  1
and 2 always had a little city driving to alter them slightly, number three
has not.  So far, for me, the best of both worlds.

My comments were not to say that given the fuel induction system developed
for the LT1 and transplanting it on a early '70s 350 would not make the
earlier engine perform quite like the new ones do.  My thoughts, even if
they were not expressed in my answer was that the engine package has become
a much more efficiently operating unit than was formerly available in the
older Ch*vy 350.  And I do believe that in 25 years, we will see a similar
performance upgrade over what we have today.  However I am not going to take
a guess at just what components of the entire engine package will go thru
substantial reformation to accomplish it.

I believe, other than the total elements of the camshaft, there is only
about 2=A2 worth of improvment in the short block of the LT1 over the 1970s
350.  Actually take a '70s 350, grind the cam to match and adapt the water
pump, that the earlier short block could be made to perform right along with
the LT1.  I believe that most of the magic involved with the LT1 engine
itself, revolves around the cam and the heads.  The rest is pretty much old=
 hat.

Anyway, I'm done pontificating on this thread, and am waiting for the next.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Pseudo-spring, oil filter part ª's, and rear differential

Update to Greg (ab348), D Brown, and other Oldsmobile-('C')heads;

 Sorry about the delay.

First of all, on the day following my initial missive I put everything else
back in and pulled out as much of the wiper motor/pump as I dared try before
creating future installation problems. I did this with confidence because of
a prior history of accidentally fixing things without prior knowledge (clock
radios, drywall, ...). Anyway, I looked at the pump motor and the check
valves and they looked fine, just really dusty. So I gave it a superficial
cleaning and put it back on. Then I checked to see if the hoses going to the
fluid jets were clear of obstructions (hope nobody was watching - ick!), and
attempted to prime the pump (again - ick!). Then I turned on the wipers and
pushed on the button for fluid. Well, I've solved half the problem, one side
of the windshield gets a forceful stream of fluid. And you can probably guess
which side that is. (Muffled expletives!) Next step is to check driver's side
tubing/jet more carefully.

Thanks to everyone who commented on the whole filter thing. Somebody
mentioned that Mondello recommends the AC PF-31 and it sounds like the AC
version of the monster STP filter that I started with, so that or the PF-24
should do me just fine.

And lastly of new items, to Dr. R Barry; Woof, Woof, (pant,
pant-drool-slobber).
I opted to jog outside having just glimpsed your input. I didn't clear
anything away to allow the tape measure to lie directly on the manifold, but
with the hook end over one edge and the 14" mark about an inch above the
other, I dont think I could have lost two inches in that 5-10 degree angle.

This brings up a notion, who in their right mind would put a Rochester 2GC on
a 425?
I mean really (oh, wait, its a four-door.) (Fortunately the oil pans are
interchangeable with small blocks!) Wait, when my mechanic swapped it on he
said it wasn't a 425 because of the 2bbl. Not going there again (now I need
more tools....). This explains why all of those M*rc*d*s were dissapearing in
my rear view mirror, and also my gas milage =(8~O){ - - - ] <===H

(take that, vile pictogrammers!)

Ok. To continue.. here are the obligatory querys based as always on new
dicoveries.

1) 425, ins & outs anyone? Because the 330 is narrower than the 350 and my
engine has just passed 80K, I was going to have it bored 0.010 - 0.030 over
(providing I could find pistons) as I probably still would'n't have gone near
the water jackets. Will this concept be the same for 425 with reference to
455?

2) Another person mentioned that A heads were somewhat inefficient but that
his were resurrected with only minimal porting.. comments?

3) This revelation brings me back to an initial question: rear differentials,
someone refered me to my manual where it apparently says 80W-90 (I havent
looked). Anyone care to mention whats involved..wiz?

4) And a 425 of 1965 would be backed up by what designation of three speed
automatic transmission?

BTW: If anyone has replied already, pay no heed to Q ª3. we don't need
rewrites here. I only skimmed through my mail just now in search of the same
subject heading.


Thanks All!

Karl Aune
Chicago IL
1965 Dynamic 88  (w 425!!)


Heading over to Bryceman's auto article with duct tape in hand...

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª550
********************************
