To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #540


oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 27 February 1997     Volume 01 : Number 540

Re: Meaningless BS
Re: Need Positraction
Re: Bummer
Re: Non-OLDS (Re: High RPM Stress con'd)
Re: Adjustable Valves
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Re: Vapor Lock (was Re: Meaningless BS)
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Starfires in JWO
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
Re: One question...  (was: ARP main studs)
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Re: High RPM Stress con'd: On Balance
Re: Where Olds is today
Re: 200-4R
Re: Meaningless BS (Vapor lock)
Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?
That place in Indiana. . .
Re: Vapor lock
Re: Adjustable Valves
Re: Many Thanks
Re: Where Olds is today
Re: cam specs
Re: Heads up.
Re: Meaningless BS (Vapor lock)
Re: Adjustable Valves
Re: Vapor lock
Re: 70' 442-W30
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
Re: High RPM Stress con'd
1970 Cutlass S
Re: 70' 442-W30
Attn MD Olds Nuts: OCC Mtg: 3/11/97
Z-Rated Tires (Was:Re: 70' 442-W30)
Re:  Vapor lock
Attn Maryland Olds Enthusiasts !!!
Re: cam specs
68 Conv. Power Windows?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:06:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Meaningless BS

>(ducks as Thoronado, God of Oldsmobile, hurls lighting bolts at him)

I'm disappointed.  I'd have figured Thoronado to hurl lightning ~rods~ not
bolts...   :)

As for the vapor lock thing....   A while back I'd disabled the carbon
canister in the Rockit, and plugged off the vent line to it.  On hot days,
when I'd open the gas tank, I'd get quite a hissing from it.  I got in the
habit of leaving the cap loosened a couple turns to prevent any problems (it
did act up at times, but never quit on me...)  Perhaps this is a similar
problem you may have encounterred?  Maybe someone put a sealed system cap on
the tank, when it should have had one of the old-leak-it-everywhere type of
cap...   ?

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:06:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Need Positraction

>buehner wrote:
>
>> affective trick is the suspension air bags in Summit.  Mine are the AirLift
>> brand, but I think there are others as well.  I have an open diff 3.42, and
>
>Give me more info....
>
Well, the car's white with black stripes, has a bench seat, casse---  Oh,
info about the bags...  :)

They sit right inside the rear coils and air up to assist the springs.
(actually, they resist the springs, making them harder to compress)  They
act similarly to air shocks, but they leave those mounting points free to
put useful shocks in their place -- Let's face it, air shocks leave a lot to
be desired for control and ride.  The air bags can be inflated independantly
and allow for preloading the right side of the axle.  This effectively puts
more weight on the drive tire, making it harder to break loose.  Result:
Instant posi.  Plus, without the air shocks, you can have more axle control
and less chance of wheel hop.  This is an aspect that makes them desirable
even with existing posi's.  They install --literally-- in minutes.  The most
time consuming part was running the air lines.  I took out the rubber stops
on the license plate pocket (the '69 should be similar, I'd guess) and stuck
the valves there.  I've got an air guage clipped to the back of the license
plate to make checking them a breeze.  Anyway, the bags just squish up and
you squeeze them in through the expanded coils of the springs.  You let them
go, and they pop back into shape, and then you simply plug them in to the
air.  I think you could do the whole thing with a jack and a pair of pliers.
The jack is probably optional.  Well worth my $60, and it's not too often
that I say that about stuff...  :)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:32:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Bummer

>Hi all,
>
>I have been trying to find someone to do a recurve on my distributor
>and finally found a few people.  The first said it would run between
>$40 - $75 depending on whether it gets rebuilt or not.  He also asked
>if the distributor had a nylon? gear in it.  Does any one know?
>
>The second person said $25 + parts (labor incl?).  He also told me
>that the recurving is not the panacea for curing the pinging in my
>engine.  He said I could lower the compression (Nooooooooooo! I
>resounded)  He went on say that recurving will help but I won't achieve
>the full potential out of my engine.  :-(

I'm not sure what nylon gear that would be.  I can't imagine the drive gear
being that way.  Many curve kits come with little nylon inserts for the
counterweights.  I found mine to be a severe pain in the butt, however I did
get them in there.

While recurving may not be the most obvious cure for the pings, it does have
its merits for it.  Usually through trial and error you can find a good
curve/initial timing setup.  (If the curve gives too much advance too soon,
you may retard the initial timing slightly to compensate, and still have
performance gains)  This is starting to sound ~really~ confusing.

If the engine has anything on it that isn't stock, I can see no reason to
avoid recurving.  Unless we're talking pre-'71, you're not likely to find a
distributor with a curve meant for anything but mileage and emissions.  Same
with the carbs.  They are severely detuned, and can stand to gain a lot by
tweaking or replacing.  I'm sure that one of the ch*vy mags (Hot Rod or Car
Craft) had an article about recurving distributors here about a year ago.
Maybe longer...  Anyone have more definate knowledge on that?  I'd recommend
doing the kit yourself unless you're ~completely~ mechanically declined, or
simply don't trust yourself to do it.  If you have someone else install it,
at least have them show you ~how~ to change the springs and weights so you
can play with it later.


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      500 4th Ave.          | "charley@rocketship.com"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:40:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-OLDS (Re: High RPM Stress con'd)

Snips

>Hmmm, this sounds more like catastrophic failure due to resonant=
 frequencies
>of the moving parts within the engines -- or perhaps their drivetrains to
>the generators? -- rather than the oil starvation or viscosity breakdown
>conditions Charley's talking about.  I'm no mechanical engineer, but it
>seems that it's not a good engineering practice to develop an engine that=
 has
>a 'critical' speed located *below* its redline, especially one that seems
>rather near what appears to be its designed operating speed (360 .vs. 420).

This story was used to illustrate "Critical Speed" not oil related problems.
I'm sure Charley never heard the term before, but it is a genuine bit of
automotive jargon, long in existance; and, I feel, should only be used to
describe the speed of an engined where it will self destruct.  You have
drawn out a sample explanation in the first sentence in the paragraph above.
Also, I believe that the condition happens between the fan and the flywheel,
without concern to what the engine is driving. =20

>Unless the implication here is that oil pressure was insufficient at 360=
 rpm,
>but *was* at 420; which methinks would also be a result of poor design as=
 well
>as possibly the other reasons Wiz lists in the below paragraph:

It would benefit you to rethink this question, as it occurs in engine
design.  When an engine is designed of a certain size, it will have within
reason a specific rotating mass, and may have a critical speed within the
operating range.  It is not poor design, because the problem cannot be
designed out!

Are there any railroad locomotive engineers on this list?  If so, and you
have EMD experience, and can speak to the following observation, please add
about 10=A2 worth.

When I was a kid, the father of one of my best friends was a hogger for the
MOP.  We had numerous occasions to ride in the cab on trains that were being
worked around town.  Usually they were locals, but occasionally we would get
a longer ride.  The EMD covered wagons had a 'critical speed' problem, and
it was addressed by NEVER allowing the engine to run (as I remember) the 7th
notch of the throttle.  (It may have been another notch).  The point is,
they made thousands of these locomotives and it was easily handled by
operating proceedure.  A long time has gone by since the last time I rode
with them, and things may be a bit hazy, but this is as I remember it, and
anyone with railroad experience please add on.

>> Heat and oil starvation are not allowed on this thread.  The original=
 thread
>> to which you make reference said, engine failure can occur because of
>> problems with viscosity and oil pressure at high speeds.  If all the oil
>> goes into the rocker valley, and fails to return to the oil pan, the=
 failure
>> was caused by a combination of some of the following: poor design, poorly
>> executed oil return passsages at manufacture, sludge in the engine, and
>> probably others--not problems with low oil pressure or viscosity.
>>=20
>> If an engine fails at high RPM because all the oil has been retained in=
 the
>> cylinder heads, the problem in NOT LOW OIL PRESSURE!  But rather the=
 problem
>> is oil retention in the cylinder heads.
>

>I guess this is splitting hairs, but the oil retention in the heads is=
 *not*
>what causes the failure in this case; rather, it's the low oil pressure

If there is oil starvation caused by oil retention over the heads, then the
cause IS oil retention NOT oil starvation!

>resulting from oil starvation that causes the parts to lose their=
 lubrication
>and fail.  The ultimate reason(s) are varied, and the Wiz lists some of=
 them;
>but heat and starvation *are* germaine to this thread...
>
>An analogy here might be that it's not the AIDS virus itself that kills a
>person; rather, it's the dieases that are allowed to ravage their body when
>their immune system is turned off by the virus.

Interesting analogy, and the today the principal thearpy, treat a patient
with HIV (not aids) is to artifically attack all the anchillary problems,
ie, by keeping the a threat problem at bay, say with an anti-biotic, and not
subject the patients immune system to it. =20

And I still say, if you get oil starvation because the oil is being retained
in the heads, the problem is oil retention in the heads, not oil starvation.=
 =20

>(Analogies like this pop in yer head when you're married to a bio-chemist=
 :) )
>
>> The Wiz Suggests
>
>> P.S. And I am curious about oil pressure and viscosity problems that=
 might
>> cause an engine to fail at high RPM, but I am not interested if that was
>> supposed to imply that all the oil can be pumped out of the oil pan at=
 high
>> RPM, that can cause engine failure.  I know that can cause engine=
 failure.
>> I'm much more interested in discovery of new areas of interested, not
>> rehashing the simply obvious.
>
>Well, given the discussion above, I guess concluding that highly viscous=
 oil
>might cause oil retention in the heads and oil starvation at high RPMs is
>simply obvious, as are the cases the Wiz lists above; so we should just=
 drop
>the subject and never ever ever discuss it again, hmm?

If indeed the oil WAS highly viscous, would that infact help defray oil
retention, I would think LOWLY viscous oil would be more likely be retained.

>Sometimes rehashing the 'simply obvious' is a good thing; like history, if=
=20
>obvious facts aren't re-visited, they are doomed to be repeated...
>

Ok, lets rehash how you pronounce 4-4-2.



>Tim Churchill
>-------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'
>

When the original post to this thread was read, I thougt we might be getting
into a new area.  I have been around the oil business since I was old enough
to walk, and I still find it fastenating(sp). =20

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:48:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Adjustable Valves

Snips

>Also, Do oil pumps gradually go bad, or do they just quit.
>
>						Gerald Hughes
>
The oil pump in an automobile engine is of the positive displacment type.
You can think of it as two gears that run together, and as the gap between
the gears closes it forces the oil out into the oil distribution system.

As the gears wear, the gap enlarges, and less oil is forced into the
distribution system.  The wear is very slow, but the volume of oil
distributed is probably exponental, not linear.  A little change in the gap,
causes a larger (prorata) volume loss.  Your clicking tappets is most likely
worn out tappets, which will not be fixed by a new oil pump.  However, at
100,000 miles it would not hurt to replace both.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:04:54 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

Snips

>    Given these facts -- a turbocharged small block can make 1100hp because a
>turbo charged engine is less prone to detonation than an 800 hp supercharged
>small block, and that 800hp supercharged small block is less prone to
>detonation than a 600hp high compression small block.
>
>
It's late, and I'm not going into this one very far, even though it really
looks like fun.

I have a simple question.  How does an engine know that it is turbo charged
instead of being supercharged?

(Assuming that by supercharging, you mean, you are providing the engine with
an inlet air boost, by a device, mechanically driven by the engine, and by
turbo charging the device is exhaust driven).

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:21:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Vapor Lock (was Re: Meaningless BS)

At 03:47 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I had the same problem with my 1969 Chevelle SS.  I tried pretty much the
>>same things you did, and then I installed the fuel lines (including the
>>return line, which the Chevelle did not have) from a 1968 442.
>
>Hey Bob,
>
>My '69 Cutlass has no fuel return line.  How hard would it be to add one?
>My (newer) mechanical fuel pump has a provision for one.  When I replaced an
>old leaking pump, the only one they had at the auto parts store had a return
>port on it, so I just capped it off.  Where would you put the return line
>into the tank?  Into one of the vents?
>
>TIA
>
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@gate.net
>
The full circuit fuel system, and improved gasoline, are the reasons that
very few cars have vapor lock problems today.  (I think the '72 Vette
mentioned earlier, had fuel filter problems, not vapor lock problems, but he
isn't listening here).  Also, it allowed the fuel pump to be simplified.
You need to find out if your NEW fuel pump is designed to be used on the old
style fuel system.  On older fuel pumps the arm is spring loaded, so that
when the fuel system is blocked by the carb. the arm can still travel to its
limit as dictated by the cam lobe.  On new fuel pumps, the spring is not
necessary because it pumps fuel for the entire travel, either into the carb.
or back to the tank.

The gas gauge adapter in the top of the tank, usually has the fuel lines
attached to it.  If you replace this unit with a newer one, you can then add
the return line.  Also, with the full circuit type fuel system, the tank is
NOT vented.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:39:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

At 09:47 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> I second Clayton's suggestion.  Although I would install 225's on all
>> four corners to allow rotation.
>>
>> John Schumacher
>
>I agree...except....don't tires rotate when the car is moving?!?!?? :)
>
>Danny
>
>
>> NTOC#254
>> OCA#021551
>> 64 D88
>> 69 442
>> 74 Supreme
>
>
How do you keep the tires from rotating when the car is moving?

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:54:40 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

Snips

>
>> In order to make 60 cycle (sorry Mr. Hertz) but this story took place
>> many years ago, they ran the engines at something like 360 RPM instead
>> of the usual 420 RPM.  And as it worked out, 360 RPM was the engines
>> critical speed.
>
>I imagine that this is some sort of large, in-line 6 diesel engine?
>This is where the benefit of a V8 design comes in - it has the short
>crankshaft of a 4 cylinder engine, but with twice as many cylinders for
>power and smoothness.  Large displacement in-line 6's and 8's have
>tremendous problems with crankshaft vibration at higher rpm's; witness the
>soon to be discontinued 6's by Merc*des and B&W, their largest engines
>have piston sizes in the 3.5" range, which is about the limit for that
>configuration to work well.
>

The size of the engines I have no clue, save for the fact that I THINK they
were 32" x 30" (B&S) three cylinders, the largest engine this manufacturer
made.  I understand that today, they make better beer.

A 6 cyl. 290 HP Cummins diesel engine has a B&S of about 6" square, roughly
100 ci per cylinder I think, an they run reasonably smooth.  Cummins V8 was
a commercial failure, because it was considered to run too rough.  I exect
that there are a lot of designe characteristics that can make or break an
engine design, and in all actuallity, have little to do with displacment.

The beauty of a V type engine over an inline is that the shorter crankshaft
is likely to wind up with the cranking motor, making them much easier to
turn over (all other aspecs of the engine being the same), ie, start.

>>   Anyway.... The laws of physics dictate that a reciprocating assembly
>> can only be truely in balance at one engine speed.
>
>J2RKT@aol.com, I'm having trouble picturing when an assembly, such as a
>tire and wheel, can be in balance at one speed, and out of balance at
>another.  Doesn't a state of balance indicate that all the participating
>forces cancel each other?  At very high speeds, tires distort (analogous
>to long, flexible crankshafts), but these forces cannot be compensated for
>by balancing, and are related to the basic engineering of these components.
>

Kev, I don't buy this one either.  If an engine is balanced a 10,000 RPM,
why would it go out of balance at 5K?

>Kevin Wong
>

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:02:07 -0400
Subject: Starfires in JWO

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> I'd just love a '61.  What is a real world price on a good #3 car w/out
> cancer?  Are you saying the complete interior was leather like the Mark
> II Continentals?
>
> What would a fair set of '62 chrome/aluminum be worth?  What would it
> cost to repair a set w/the usual dings?

There are several 60's Starfires in the March JWO. A '62 hardtop (no
price), a '63 convertible $12.5, a '63 hardtop, needs restoration $1500
(Doug Kitchener who posts to this list is selling it), another one for
$4K, then at the very end of the section, a '61 convertible (restored)
and both a '62 convertible and hardtop (restorable), again no prices. If
you don't get JWO but are interested in phone #s, etc. let me know and
I'll pass along the info.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

At 01:10 AM 2/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I think this 1950's list is a great idea, but i think we already have a
problem.
>i noticed in the past couple of messages people talking about '61, '62,
>and '65 olds' and refering to them as "These early convertibles"....
>This is what i think the guy was refering to when he said "those kids
>don't remember what a 1950 olds looks like" (sorry i forgot your name).
>
>the 1960's are not early cars!
>
>i bought my second oldsmobile by age 19 (a 1947 and a 1948 olds)...
>this is "early" but even that is a risky term.
>
>the 1950's list i think it is a good idea, but what are the "cut off dates"
>
>
>basically, the cars from the 1890's-late 1950's dont get the attention that
>the cars from 1960's through the present get on the list.
>
>If there is no "cut off date" to limit the postings, i think the list might
losesome of it's "glitter"
>
>if you look at the time span and compare the type's of re: on this list,
>a bulk of the re:'s are from 1960-early 1980's  --a span of about 20
>years.
>
>b]w
>i wanna join the "early olds" list once it is established what
>early is.
>
>--jj
>
>
Wouldn't an early Olds be a '97 or a '98?  (and read that as 1897 and 1898)?

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:18:09 -0400
Subject: Re: One question...  (was: ARP main studs)

Some sniperoonies

>Yeah, I understand what you mean here, and in some sense, you're right, 180
>lbs. is not excessive, but one thing came to mind.  Bear in mind I have never
>seen these particular studs before, so I'm asking a question here first.  Are
>these bolts supposed to have some type of "yeild" or stretch to them when put
>on?  There are bolts out there which are designed to "give" some at the
>proper torque, and I'm not sure you would want these in a crank bearing
>support, but my Kawasaki 750 (bike) has 2 bolts down inside the head/valve
>area which are this type of bolt.  This is a bolt that holds the head on in
>the chain galley area (front and rear of the motor) where there aren't any
>studs going through it.
>
>If they were his type (torque to yield) then they very well could break when
>applying too much torque.  If they are not (this type), then yes, there would
>most likely be a problem (heat treatment of the bolts possibly, or material
>specs are the most likely, as you stated).
>
>Chris Ruper
>
>BTW, these torque to yield bolts can be expected to break when too much force
>is applied, and basically, when you torque them, you are stretching them, and
>it is suggested that you replace the bolts when you have removed them.  Also,
>if I am incorrect on any of this, please let me know as it's been a while
>since I've dealt with some of this stuff on a regular basis (5 yrs., at
>least).
>
>
I never understood the point of using a fastner that you pulled tight, to
the point of yield.  I would prefer to use a size larger fastener and pull
it tight enough to withstand the load, but no where near yield.

On a pull to yield fastner, you have gotten all the fastner has to give.
It's like firing a proof cartridge in a gun, and no one wants to fire proof
cartridges every time.

As far as replacing them each time they are pulled tight, do as the
manufacturer recommends.

If you do not under stand yield, it is the point where the fastner starts to
pull apart.  The fastner will become a bit longer, and will have a reduced
section somewhere along its length.  This reduced section has greater tensil
strength than the rest of the fastner.  But it also has less cross section,
so if it is pulled to destruction, this is the point where it will fail.
When the item yields, the section that is reduced is made harder (work
hardening) and therefore will gain tensil strength.  But I sort of think
that this is a case where harder is not better.  Make it a bit harder yet,
and you've got glass.  Ever see a super hard piece of steel shatter like
glass, it will.


As far as the ARP studs, in this original post; I think they were really
faulty, and I would address the issue in that manner.  And I saw ARP's phone
number listed in a later post, and I would call them and talk it over.
There is opportunity here to learn a great deal, both about the quality of
fastners, and the quality of that company.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:39:59 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

  Hokay -- here it is
                             Turbochargers tend to have cooler inlet
tempuratures than super chargers -- inlet meaning the air inlet at the
cylinder head valve port --  A turbo charged set up can easily be fitted with
a device to cool the pressurised air entering the engine -- read intercooler
- -- whereas it is extremely difficult to do the same with a supercharger --
 Thus reasoning you can have two engines set up one with a supercharger and
one with a turbo charger and have both engines running with the same amount
of indicated boost -- but the turbo charger will have a cooler inlet charge
than the super charger -- the turbo will make more hp because it is receiving
a denser mixture of fuel and air.  That done --  A supercharger is driven
from the crankshaft or by something driven from the crankshaft  ie. it takes
horsepower to make horsepower with a supercharger --   A turbo charger
operates off of the heat created from the combustion process and passed
through the exhaust manifolds through the turbocharger turbine which is
connected by a shaft to a compressor turbine to create boost in the engine,
the turbocharger takes no hp to create hp its basicly free hp.
  To answer your question "how does the engine Know"  The camshaft profiles
are different for both a supercharged and a turbocharged engine --  Second a
super charger develops instant hp and torque when you stomp on the throttle,
a turbocharger takes a little time to build up maniflold pressure in the
exhaust to drive the compressor turbine and accelerate up to boost speeds --
Listen to a diesel cement truck sometime and you can usually hear the
turbocharger spooling up as the truck accelerates from a stop -- the turbo
pitch rises at a slower rate than the engine note.
   Hope that answered your question.


------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:13:35 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd: On Balance

  You are changing linear motion to circular motion --- a 10,000 rpm engine
will be overbalanced at low speeds.
   Here we go--- you have the reciprocating assembly  think of the connecting
rod as a two piece unit -- the upper half of the beam including the wrist pin
and piston assembly -- The motion of these parts will always be linear/ up
and down.  Then you have the big end of the connecting rod wich will be
travelling in a circular motion counter or oblique to the weights on the
crankshaft.
  Just like the tire on your car the weight of every thing moving in a circle
remains in the same relative position and will increase in potential weight
at the same rate as every thing else in that circle.  But top half of the
connecting rod, the wrist pin and the piston will weigh different amounts at
different moments during the rotational cycle of the crankshaft running at a
constant speed.  These forces are the ones that need to be accounted for in
balancing the reciprocating assembly.
   you will have to forgive me on this -- i don't balance crankshafts for a
living and its been awhile since ive brushed up on this --  I think i
remember that the weight to be considered in balancing an engine starts with
using the full weight of all of the parts that will be moving in a circular
motion and one half of the weight of all of the parts that will be moving in
a linear motion in order to calculate the correct weight of the counter
weights on the crankshaft and if the engine is going to be operated at high
rpms the change in the calculation will be in consideration of the increased
force of the piston end of the rod assembly -- for example  the full weight
of the circular motion parts and three quarters of the weight of the linear
motion parts -- making the counterweights on the crankshaft heavier than they
need to be to operated the engine at low speeds creating a condition of
overbalance and low rpm vibration.
  Anyway im tired and im going to bed -- i hope that helped you visualise why
a reciprocating assembly can only be balanced for a certain range of
operation, which is different than a tire wich is purely a circular motion --
that is unless you've let your car sit too long on those old PolyGlass GTs'
 -- anybody remember that???

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:42:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Where Olds is today

Thanks Bob for relaying this info.  If Olds is going after the buyers of
Japanese cars, it is no wonder I am not interested in ANY of their new
products.  It is also not suprising that the old Olds is of little
interest to the new Olds owners.  They were raised thinking rice
grinders are ok.  They might as well go ahead and sell the place to
Toyhonzda Inc.  I will be forever grateful that they did make great cars
in the past.

Dave Wyatt
(borrowing a phrase from the cola industry)
70  4-4-2 it's the real thing

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:01:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 200-4R

>At 10:26 PM 2/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Would a 200-4R stand up to a 455?
>>
>>Pat
>
>
>After about $1500.00 in performace upgrades it might.>
>
Actually you can buy them now for about that much, then again, there might
be a core charge.  I've read in Hot Rod that they can withstand about as
much HP and torque as a 700-R4.  About 700hp and 600 lb ft of torque.  If
you just have a mild daily driver, and wanted to drop the RPM at cruise, I'd
say give it a shot if you can afford the trans.  You probably won't save
enough gas to have the transmission pay for itself for about 100,000 miles,
but the lower RPMs at cruise will be great if you're gonna take many long
trips or commute.  That .67 gear ratio would be nice to have at 80mph if you
have anything steeper than a 3.08 rearend.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:37:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Meaningless BS (Vapor lock)

david wyatt wrote:
>
> I used to have quite a bit of vapor lock trouble with my Olds when I had
> a Holley carb.  I switched back to the Quadrajet and vapor lock is no
> more.  I think my problem had to do with the heat sink efect caused by
> the float bowels hanging out over the manifold.  I was running the fuel
> return, had plugged the heat crossover, and had 2 thick insulating
> gaskets under the carb.  The only thing that did help the Holley was
> racing gas.  The racing gas seemed to be less troubled by the heat.  I
> switched back to the Quadrajet and have not had anymore trouble, even on
> the run of the mill pump gas.  I do try to use a name brand premium at
> all times.
>
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2


I have been reading these vapor lock messages for a while now trying to
figure out what vapor lock is.  Could anyone explain Vapor Lock to me?

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:44:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 50's Oldsmobile lists?

Bill
  Sorry to get riled up but I am thrilled but I'm happy I have this 61 it
took  5 bad one over the years before I found this nice one, I've had it
since 1980, it had 41,000 when I bought it and stole it off the  87 year old
original owner for $1500.00 now dosen't that make you sick.
  as for the interior the full seating area was leather not the lower panels
or door panels.
   NOS side panels if you could find them probably close to $2000.00 a real
mint set can get $1000.00. The place in Indiana I mentioned got $1800.00 to
redo a set and it came out nice. You have to do all 6 pieces as you couldn't
 put them side by side if not.
  A number3  Starfire could get  $6,000 to $8,000,

Everett

------------------------------

From: Jason Beres <jberes@eagle1.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:55:02 -0400
Subject: That place in Indiana. . .

Where is this place?  I live in Indiana, and would like to know of =
anyone who can do quality work on my Olds, as I am smack dab in the =
middle of F*rd country (aargh!)

Much appreciated

Jason Beres
jberes@eagle1.net
83 Olds 98 coupe
41 Chev Special Deluxe

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:14:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Vapor lock

Gerald Hughes asked if anyone could explain vapor lock.  I will try.
Vapor lock is a condition that usualy happens when the fuel vaporizes
in the fuel system.  It can happen in a fuel line or even a carburator.
The pump will pump liquid, but will not pump vapor.  Therefore the
incoming fuel is blocked by the "bubble" of vapor.  This will cause the
vehicle to starve for fuel.  You used to see spring loaded clothes pin
on fuel lines.  They served as a heat sink to absorb the heat and
prevent vapor lock.  At least that was the idea.  I ruined an electric
fuel pump on another car once when the fuel line was too close to the
tail pipe, this allowed the fuel to vaporize at the pump, causing the
pump to run dry.  I stayed away from gas with alcohol and had no more
trouble with that car.  When I had the Holley on my Olds it was fine
running down the highway.  When I was in town setting at a light the
carb would get hot and I would run out of fuel when I shifted to second
gear.  Fortunately the car would recover quickly and I would continue
down the road.  With todays fuel injected cars you probably won't see
too much vapor lock due to high delivery pressure and a constant reurn
to the tank.  The fuels with alcohol added seem to be more prone to this
due to the lower boiling point of alcohol.  It "boils" down to high
underhood temps, poor quality fuel and a fule delivery system that is
too close to the heat source causing the fuel to become vapor.

Sorry for the length!
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:38:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Adjustable Valves

At 11:50 PM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>As always, snippets of lore catch my eye. A pregnant pause. So, Dr Barry,
>were there particular pre-1966 engines that had adjustable valves? [ Of
>course the question that I am really asking is; do I have them in my 1965
>330?] I know, I know. I really should know more about this great beast that

Well, the first years of the 330's and 425's (and 400's too, I'd suppose)
had shaft-mounted rockers rather than individual pedestal-mounted rockers
like the later cars. Now, every shaft-mounted system I've seen was
adjustable in some way, but I'm not sure if the Olds units were. As for the
earlier-generation Olds V-8's (303, 324, 371 and 394), I believe that they
too had shaft-mounted rockers, but again, I'm not sure that they were
adjustable.

So, when I said all Olds V-8's after 1965 had non-adjustable valvetrains, I
was just covering myself in case any of these early shaft-mounted systems
were in fact adjustable...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:35:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Many Thanks

> aspect, but as an investment.  Plus it will be tons easier to sell
> than my '61 Super 88 (nobody wants 4 doors...even hardtops!!).
> I'm going to try and work out a swap with them, hopefully an even
> one...we'll see.
>
> Happy Oldsmobiling!!
>
> Jeff ('61 Super 88)

Peter G. Teubel sez:

>      Hold on there, pard!  There are a few like me out there who want a
>      classic or antique, but can only afford the cheaper 4dr models.  Not a
>      good investment, but still unique to drive and show.


My sediments :) exactly... Big Red is a 2 door of course, but 4 doors like
Jeff's '61 make excellent -- dare I say it? -- family drivers.  If you want
a classic everyday driver, but have a coupla kids, a 4 door makes more sense
in a lot of cases.  Plus, as has been stated many times before, you can buy
more & better car for the $$$ if its a 4 door as opposed to a 2.

I would assume the same applies to wagons over 2 doors... what say, VC owners?



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Where Olds is today

> Hey Bob, thanks for the insight!
> I just read an article on the upcoming Olds Intrigue and it seemed like a
> pretty neat car.  The AutoWeek article did also mention something about
> the car being an import-fighter.  Too bad Olds killed off the High Output
> Quad4 and W-40-series options.  They coulda used those in a
> Prelude-fighter.  Woulda beat the snot outta them, too!
> Sure wish the higher-ups at GM would wake up!

And as far as 2 doors go, there's a lot of 2 door mid-performance imports that
 Olds oughta be allowed to fight -- 2 door Honda Accords & Acuras are awfully
popular, for instance.  Not to mention Honda Quaaludes, I mean Play Rudes, I
mean... :)

But GM is not the company it used to be, it seems that corporate feels
downsizing the scope and targets of each of the divisions is necessary for
survival :P

Even so, each division should be allowed to have distinct personalities to go
with its specific target market, and that is sorely lacking...

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox... Next!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:46:42 -0400
Subject: Re: cam specs

At 09:25 PM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Anybody know the camshaft specs for an 87 307Y?  How about a late 70's 350?
I'd
>like to know where I'm starting from to know how radical to go.

All Olds passenger-car V-8's (except the '83-'84 H/O and '86-'87 442's)
after say 1973 ran the same mild cam grind: .400" lift/~260' duration.
Actually, some 260's and 307's may have had an even milder cam.

The H/O-442 cam in the 307's was a bit more radical: ~.430" lift, I recall.
Of course, you've got a roller-cam, so you can't just use the grind (and
especially not the actual cam) from a late-70's 350.

Call Mondello, and see what kind of grind he would have for you. You may
have to swap on earlier ('81-'84 307) heads to experience much of an
improvement, though.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:46:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads up.

At 10:59 PM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I am looking at some extensive head work. I would like to get some
>opinions on what my best course of action would be. My current situation
>is a set of C castings that need valve guides and valves, seals, seats
>and I was thinking some mild port work. My question is should I do the
>work on these heads or find another casting (K,D,F or E) I have access
>to a set of Ks and Es. The Fs I have are going on my W-30. I've heard
>that Cs are good castings but never really why.

Well, the C's that you have possess an extremely desireable quality (they
are paid for!). Besides that, the seemingly flow better in pure stock form
than all but the rare and expensive "D" and "F" heads.

Of course, if you are going to be doing any headwork whatsoever, then the
head you start out with makes no difference (though you'd have to do a bit
more grinding on a set of "J"'s to get them to flow, and the "A" heads are
to be avoided because of their shaft-mounted rocker systems.)

Stick with your C's, and modify them to your heart's content!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:26:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Meaningless BS (Vapor lock)

At 09:37 AM 2/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>david wyatt wrote:
>>
>> I used to have quite a bit of vapor lock trouble with my Olds when I had
>> a Holley carb.  I switched back to the Quadrajet and vapor lock is no
>> more.  I think my problem had to do with the heat sink efect caused by
>> the float bowels hanging out over the manifold.  I was running the fuel
>> return, had plugged the heat crossover, and had 2 thick insulating
>> gaskets under the carb.  The only thing that did help the Holley was
>> racing gas.  The racing gas seemed to be less troubled by the heat.  I
>> switched back to the Quadrajet and have not had anymore trouble, even on
>> the run of the mill pump gas.  I do try to use a name brand premium at
>> all times.
>>
>> Dave Wyatt
>> 70  4-4-2
>
>
>I have been reading these vapor lock messages for a while now trying to
>figure out what vapor lock is.  Could anyone explain Vapor Lock to me?
>
>						Gerald Hughes
>
>
Vapor lock is a condition were the fuel is allowed to vaporized in the fuel
line, between the fuel pump and the tank.  When the vapor hits the fuel
pump, you no longer get fuel to the engine, and the engine stalls.  The most
common occurance of this happened with older cars that did not have the
return line from the fuel pump, and it turned to a hot day, and you still
had winterized gasoline in your car.

Today, with the fuel beinging cycled back thru the gas tank, you tend to
keep all the fuel cooler, and greatly deminish; if not eliminate this
problem.  In the colder climes during the winter months, refiners disolve
larger amounts of the 'light ends' (butane, propane, etc) back into the
gasoline because it vaporizes easier than the heavier molecules, and makes
for easier winter starting.  However, on a hot day; these light ends are
still easier to vaporize, and...

Also, many of the current cars have electric pumps right in the tank, and
this should totally eliminate the problem.

The post you repeated above is a little complicated for me to understand,
because his problem was after the pump, and I do not believe he actually had
vapor lock with his Holley carb.  I expect the problem lay elsewhere in the
carb., BUT was cured by a change to a Q'jet.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:34:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Adjustable Valves

At 10:38 AM 2/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 11:50 PM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>As always, snippets of lore catch my eye. A pregnant pause. So, Dr Barry,
>>were there particular pre-1966 engines that had adjustable valves? [ Of
>>course the question that I am really asking is; do I have them in my 1965
>>330?] I know, I know. I really should know more about this great beast that
>
>Well, the first years of the 330's and 425's (and 400's too, I'd suppose)
>had shaft-mounted rockers rather than individual pedestal-mounted rockers
>like the later cars. Now, every shaft-mounted system I've seen was
>adjustable in some way, but I'm not sure if the Olds units were. As for the
>earlier-generation Olds V-8's (303, 324, 371 and 394), I believe that they
>too had shaft-mounted rockers, but again, I'm not sure that they were
>adjustable.
>
>So, when I said all Olds V-8's after 1965 had non-adjustable valvetrains, I
>was just covering myself in case any of these early shaft-mounted systems
>were in fact adjustable...
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>
>
Personally I can only remember working on one.  It was a ca. 1961 Olds
Covertible, the one with the large aluminum panels on the side, that my
across the street neighbor bought after he totalled his '57 Golden Hawk.  As
I remember there were not adjustments ala Chevrolet's shaft installed
rockers.  You just bolted the thing down, and that was that.  Much like the
little saddles that are on them now, just that you got all 8 valves worth to
work on at one time, instead of one holes worth.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Vapor lock

david wyatt wrote:
>
> Gerald Hughes asked if anyone could explain vapor lock.  I will try.
> Vapor lock is a condition that usualy happens when the fuel vaporizes
> in the fuel system.  It can happen in a fuel line or even a carburator.
> The pump will pump liquid, but will not pump vapor.  Therefore the
> incoming fuel is blocked by the "bubble" of vapor.  This will cause the
> vehicle to starve for fuel.  You used to see spring loaded clothes pin
> on fuel lines.  They served as a heat sink to absorb the heat and
> prevent vapor lock.  At least that was the idea.  I ruined an electric
> fuel pump on another car once when the fuel line was too close to the
> tail pipe, this allowed the fuel to vaporize at the pump, causing the
> pump to run dry.  I stayed away from gas with alcohol and had no more
> trouble with that car.  When I had the Holley on my Olds it was fine
> running down the highway.  When I was in town setting at a light the
> carb would get hot and I would run out of fuel when I shifted to second
> gear.  Fortunately the car would recover quickly and I would continue
> down the road.  With todays fuel injected cars you probably won't see
> too much vapor lock due to high delivery pressure and a constant reurn
> to the tank.  The fuels with alcohol added seem to be more prone to this
> due to the lower boiling point of alcohol.  It "boils" down to high
> underhood temps, poor quality fuel and a fule delivery system that is
> too close to the heat source causing the fuel to become vapor.
>
> Sorry for the length!
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2


Dave,
	Thanks for the explanation.

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:12:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>

>> I second Clayton's suggestion.  Although I would install 225's on all
>> four corners to allow rotation.

>I don't know about 225s all the way around.  I've got 245/60/14s all
>around on mine, and they still look too small for the rear wheel well.

Well, I've got 255/60 15's on the back of mine and they _still_ look too
small. :-)

Wes Fuji (whatever happened to him anyway?) once suggested I put
255's all around but I chickened out and put 245/60 15's on the front
as I thought they might rub the wheel well or sway bar on tight turns.
He had 255's all around on his '75 H/O.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:13:45 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

At 07:39 AM 2/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>  Hokay -- here it is
>                             Turbochargers tend to have cooler inlet
>tempuratures than super chargers -- inlet meaning the air inlet at the
>cylinder head valve port --  A turbo charged set up can easily be fitted with
>a device to cool the pressurised air entering the engine -- read intercooler
>-- whereas it is extremely difficult to do the same with a supercharger --
> Thus reasoning you can have two engines set up one with a supercharger and
>one with a turbo charger and have both engines running with the same amount
>of indicated boost -- but the turbo charger will have a cooler inlet charge
>than the super charger -- the turbo will make more hp because it is receiving
>a denser mixture of fuel and air.  That done --  A supercharger is driven
>from the crankshaft or by something driven from the crankshaft  ie. it takes
>horsepower to make horsepower with a supercharger --   A turbo charger
>operates off of the heat created from the combustion process and passed
>through the exhaust manifolds through the turbocharger turbine which is
>connected by a shaft to a compressor turbine to create boost in the engine,
>the turbocharger takes no hp to create hp its basicly free hp.
>  To answer your question "how does the engine Know"  The camshaft profiles
>are different for both a supercharged and a turbocharged engine --  Second a
>super charger develops instant hp and torque when you stomp on the throttle,
>a turbocharger takes a little time to build up maniflold pressure in the
>exhaust to drive the compressor turbine and accelerate up to boost speeds --
>Listen to a diesel cement truck sometime and you can usually hear the
>turbocharger spooling up as the truck accelerates from a stop -- the turbo
>pitch rises at a slower rate than the engine note.
>   Hope that answered your question.
>
>
>
A very enlightening answer.  Thank you.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Death <dldeathe@mail.pittstate.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:25:56 -0400
Subject: Re: High RPM Stress con'd

On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 J2RKT@aol.com wrote:
> the turbocharger takes no hp to create hp its basicly free hp.


What about the increased backpressure needed to run the
turbocharger?  Would not that coase you to have some
decrease in performance when the turbo was not engaged?

------------------------------

From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@cadvansys.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:13:51 -0400
Subject: 1970 Cutlass S

Hey Fellow Olds Techies,
	What does the "S" mean in a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S?  Is it better or
worse than a plain jane Cutlass.

	I am looking at buying one with a 455 in it for $1200.  Is that a fair
price w/ 133k and minor quarterpanel rust and minor body dents & dings?

	Any expert info on what I should be careful about or what I need to
look for would be appreciated.

	A swift reply is requested as I am going to look at it again today and
I would like to have all of this info in mind.

	Thanks in advance.

						Gerald Hughes

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:44:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30

On Feb 27, 11:12am, Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: 70' 442-W30
> From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
>
> >> I second Clayton's suggestion.  Although I would install 225's on all
> >> four corners to allow rotation.
>
> >I don't know about 225s all the way around.  I've got 245/60/14s all
> >around on mine, and they still look too small for the rear wheel well.
>
> Well, I've got 255/60 15's on the back of mine and they _still_ look too
> small. :-)
>
> Wes Fuji (whatever happened to him anyway?) once suggested I put
> 255's all around but I chickened out and put 245/60 15's on the front
> as I thought they might rub the wheel well or sway bar on tight turns.
> He had 255's all around on his '75 H/O.
>

	Jeff-
		On my '70 W30 I have 265/50x15's on the front (and they don't
touch the wheel wells) and 295/50x15's on the back, all are mounted on 15x8
(PO5) rims made by Specialty Wheel in OR. With the 15's, the wheel wells fill
up nicely and still give the car a nice stance.

                                                       ___  ___
                                              /     /    / /  /
                                             / __  /  --/ /  /
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/ Red

             (MCORNEA@pt8244.pto.ford.com)

> -Jeff
> jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
> 1970 442  4-Speed
> see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton
>
>-- End of excerpt from Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:35:47 -0400
Subject: Attn MD Olds Nuts: OCC Mtg: 3/11/97

The SECOND OFFICIAL meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on
Tuesday, March 11, 1997 starting at 7PM.  The meeting will be held at :

ERNIE SWANSON OLDSMOBILE
410 N. CRAIN HIGHWAY, GLEN BURNIE, MD 21061-3009
Phone: (410) 768-8800
Fax: (410) 768-1948

All we ask is that you NOT park in front of the dealership as they will be
open. Please park to the right of the showroom, down in fron of the service
bays, there is plenty of room.  We have a meeting room in the back and to
the left in the showroom building.  Someone will be in the showroom the
flock in the showroom as they come in. We shouldn't run past 8:30PM.

If you know of anyone else who might be interested, and not on the
newsgroup, please pass the word along and or bring them with ya.  There are
around 20 current members in the club and 1 event has been scheduled ( the
cruise @ the Big M Drive-In in September), another on the drawing board and
even a picnic is in the works, along w/ a caravan to a local Oldsmobile
event.  There is a wide variety of Oldsmobiles represented, add yours to
the list.  We will be discussing events, club logo, newsletter stuff and
event planning.  Also, Ernie Swanson, owner of Glen Burnie Oldsmobile will
be attending.

There is still the opportunity to be a founding father in a car club, as
anyone who joins before June 1 will be able to sign the bylaws.  Anyone who
joins this year will be considered a Charter Member.

Anyone interested in joining, or know of someone who might be interested,
drop me some e-mail.  I have directions to the meeting.  If you plan on
coming, please e-mail me so we have a head count for refreshments.

Thanks for the bandwidth.

 ---   Brad Nicholson   OCA#18984
| | |  1987 442 W-42
| | |  1994 Eighty Eight LSS
|/|\|  (H) 76062.3042@compuserve.com
| | |  (W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
 ---   Oldsmobile Centennial Club

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:45:59 -0400
Subject: Z-Rated Tires (Was:Re: 70' 442-W30)

>I once looked for z or even h rated tires with raised white lettering for my
>Olds and could not find any.The best I found were BF T\A radials which
>are s rated.
>Where did you find yours and about how much?

Try Cooper Tires.  I was looking through thier catalog just the other day...
Z-rated tires are pretty expensive, and if you have 14" wheels, you don't
have much of a selection.  Z-rated tires are more for the 15" - 17" crowd...
I'm going off my clouded morning memory here, so don't hate me if I'm
wrong, but I'm sure you can get them for less than $150 ea.

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:28:23 -0400
Subject: Re:  Vapor lock

You know, after I sent that reply explaining vapor lock, I may have
figured out why the Holley gave me the trouble.  It was vapor lock in
the chrome plated steel fuel line feeding the float bowels of the dual
feed carb.  I bet it was getting hot from the intake while the car was
stopped.  It would also do this after a warm restart.  Once underway the
pump would have enough pressure to overcome the vapor.  Then the fuel
flow and the air movement  would keep it cool enough until I stopped
again.  Chrome has a nasty habit of holding in heat.  I would guess if I
had switched to a braided hose set up my troubles would have been
eliminated.  That would explain why the Quadrajet is not bothered, it
doesn't have a bunch of chromed steel line sitting over the hottest spot
of the intake.  The old flat head F*rds had a similar problem with the
fuel pump at the rear of the intake and the fuel line sitting over the
intake, they were bad about vapor lock also.  What do you think Wiz,
does that sound plausible?

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:29:52 -0400
Subject: Attn Maryland Olds Enthusiasts !!!

I'm sending this again, It didn't show up in the 2 digest, #538 & #539,
that I received overnight, so please excuse the extra bandwidth.  Just
trying too get some Oldsmobile enthusiasts together to celebrate the Good
Olds Days that the current mucketing people at Olds seem to be neglecting.

(This opinion is not reflected on the dealer that is hosting our club
meeting, he has a 55 88 Convertible and a 35k mile 77 Cutlas Supreme coupe,
triple dark green which is absolutely BEAUTIFUL)

===========================================================================

The SECOND OFFICIAL meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on
Tuesday, March 11, 1997 starting at 7PM.  The meeting will be held at :

ERNIE SWANSON OLDSMOBILE
410 N. CRAIN HIGHWAY, GLEN BURNIE, MD 21061-3009 Phone: (410) 768-8800
Fax: (410) 768-1948

All we ask is that you NOT park in front of the dealership as they will be
open. Please park to the right of the showroom, down in fron of the service
bays, there is plenty of room.  We have a meeting room in the back and to
the left in the showroom building.  Someone will be in the showroom the
flock in the showroom as they come in. We shouldn't run past 8:30PM.

If you know of anyone else who might be interested, and not on the
newsgroup, please pass the word along and or bring them with ya.  There are
around 20 current members in the club and 1 event has been scheduled ( the
cruise @ the Big M Drive-In in September), another on the drawing board and
even a picnic is in the works, along w/ a caravan to a local Oldsmobile
event.  There is a wide variety of Oldsmobiles represented, add yours to
the list.  We will be discussing events, club logo, newsletter stuff and
event planning.  Also, Ernie Swanson, owner of Glen Burnie Oldsmobile will
be attending.

There is still the opportunity to be a founding father in a car club, as
anyone who joins before June 1 will be able to sign the bylaws.  Anyone who
joins this year will be considered a Charter Member.

Anyone interested in joining, or know of someone who might be interested,
drop me some e-mail.  I have directions to the meeting.  If you plan on
coming, please e-mail me so we have a head count for refreshments.

Thanks for the bandwidth.

 ---   Brad Nicholson   OCA#18984
| | |  1987 442 W-42
| | |  1994 Eighty Eight LSS
|/|\|  (H) 76062.3042@compuserve.com | | |  (W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
 ---   Oldsmobile Centennial Club

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:12:58 -0400
Subject: Re: cam specs

> All Olds passenger-car V-8's (except the '83-'84 H/O and '86-'87 442's)
> after say 1973 ran the same mild cam grind: .400" lift/~260' duration.
> Actually, some 260's and 307's may have had an even milder cam.

An '87 service manual lists the VIN Y 307 as having an intake lift of
0.247" and the exhaust, 0.251", which agrees with the 0.400" valve lift
mentioned.  I wonder what changes in duration were made for these later
307's versus, say, an '83 Y engine.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:35:21 -0400
Subject: 68 Conv. Power Windows?

Hi All,

I'm hoping someone can help me answer a couple of questions. Did the 68 442
Convertable have a power windows option? If so, did a car equipped with that
option also have the hand cranks?

TIA,
Ray
34467x

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #540
********************************
