To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #532


oldsmobile-digest         Sunday, 23 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 532

ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: ARP main studs
Re: more 307
Re: Fuel Injection
Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale
Re: ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Olds vs Chevy
'85 Ciera - Parts
Re: Rocket 88 Song
65 98 Soon 4 Sale
Re: For Ohio Readers Only
Engine Refresh Options?
Re: Exhaust System
Re: more engine questions
Re: Buick in a ch*vy?  (was Re: Buick 350, 400)
Re: Olds vs Chevy
Fwd: parts needed
Re: Rocket 88 Song
Re: Water Wetter
Re: Engine Refresh Options?
Re: Pronouncing 442
Re: Rocket 88 Song
Re: Rocket 88 Song
Re: 307 problem history
Re: '85 Ciera - Parts
Re: Leaking Lena
power steering info
power steering conversion
Re: more engine questions
[none]
80 Cutlass grille
Re: (no subject)
Re: noisey 98
Re: 80 Cutlass grille
RE: Engine Refresh Options?
Thanks
Re: 307 problem history
307 again
Re: Olds vs. Chevy
Re: 307 problem history
Re: 307 problem history
Re: Olds 403
71 442 Questions
Re: Olds vs. Chevy
Re: 71 442 Questions
67' 4-4-2 convertible $$$...
Re: 71 442 Questions
Re: Parts for sale
Re: 67' 4-4-2 convertible $$$...
M-21 Troubles
Re: 71 442 Questions
Re: (no subject)
Re: Parts for sale
Re: Olds vs. Chevy
Re: Engine Refresh Options?
Re: 71 442 Questions
H*lp Needed for Parts
Re: M-21 Troubles
Re: H*lp Needed for Parts
Transmission Shavings
Re: more 307
Re: Engine Refresh Options?
Re: Parts for sale
Re: Water Wetter
Re: Transmission Shavings
Re: Engine Refresh Options?
Re: Leaking Lena

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 07:52:05 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442

On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 Escape442@aol.com wrote:
> Art, Get ready, now we are going on to airliner designations!  Let 'em
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> starve, or as Sam Kinison used to say "MOVE OUT OF THE DESERT!!!!"

No we're not!

I'm going to step in and declare this subject officially closed. Really
gang, it has gone on long enough. Continue it at the risk of receiving
admin warnings. 'Nuff said...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> No we're not!
>
> I'm going to step in and declare this subject officially closed. Really
> gang, it has gone on long enough. Continue it at the risk of receiving
> admin warnings. 'Nuff said...

I was wondering how long THAT was gonna take.   ;)

Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 04:18:24 -0400
Subject: Re: ARP main studs

Bob McElroy wrote:
>
	<snip>
>
> And finally, I apologize for the length of this reply, especially on a
> rather uninteresting topic such as bolt strength.

Bob,

Well, I liked the informatiion.  It sure helps me to understand the
reasoning behind this injuneering stuff.  I had heard that bolts under
this type stress were one time shots but I didn't really understand what
was meant by that.

BTW, do you say "A-R-P" or "arp" when you pronounce that name?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: more 307

Pat,
      I have been working on Cadillacs for the last 20 years and we used the
307 Y motor from 86-90. I have seen some of these motors use oil as you
describe. What it was was out of round cylinder bores that caused excessive
oil consumption. The blocks were not fully cured when bored and the cylinders
would go out of round. I have heard if you get one to 60k and it is not using
oil then it will not start. You will probably have to eithere rebuild the
motor you got or a replacement. I have replaced a number of these for this
problem. These are my experiences only and there could be other explanations
for this.





















                                                                        Steve


------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:07:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection

Ed,
      Cadiilac used a rail Electronic Fuel Injection from 76-79 on Seville
and Eldorado on a 350 Olds motor. It wasn't a bad system put parts aren't
cheat and are getting scarce. I would get holleys injection system or a good
intake and carb.
                                                                  Steve

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:51:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 1976 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

At 04:04 AM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Anyway your car is in a pretty shape!
>I hope the motor look like the body! :)
>
>
>Olivier
>Delta 88 Royale 1976

Thanks.  The engine is reasonable, but could definitely use a cleaning and
so forth.  I plan to do as much as possible before driving to Lansing in
August.




************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Matt Breitbach <mbreitba@iastate.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:08:13 -0400
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: Pronouncing 442

At 11:38 23-02-97 -0400, you wrote:
>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> No we're not!
>>
>> I'm going to step in and declare this subject officially closed. Really
>> gang, it has gone on long enough. Continue it at the risk of receiving
>> admin warnings. 'Nuff said...
>
>I was wondering how long THAT was gonna take.   ;)
>
>Mike
>
>
>--
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>
finally!!  that horse you have been beating has been dead for about three
days.  thank you greg.

matt

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:47:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs Chevy

At 04:43 AM 2/23/97 -0400, Frank Gonzalez wrote:
>I am by no means an expert on Chevy engines especially the newer ones.I
>do know
>that a couple of years ago I raced various(6) times a bone stock 70 w-31
>350 Cutlass against
>a then new 89 350 IROC belonging to my cousin and beat it every time.I
>know that the newer

The Z/28's and T/A's of the mid to late 80's did not exactly eat up the 1/4
mile in stock form. They made a great deal of torque and the HP was only in
the 230 range. I have driven a few of them and they will beat my LT1 nearly
every time from a launch. Mid to upper RPM's are a different story. Those
cars were starved due to their TPI runner configuration. A better comparison
to a 70 W-31 is a 93 or newer Z/28 or T/A . with 275hp (net) or 330hp (gross).


>.So you can keep youre chevy I will just wave at you as I go by.

Hey now lets be nice ;) I would love to match up against a car like a 70
W-31. Would be a good race...
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: rrpennjr@swbell.net
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:11:02 -0400
Subject: '85 Ciera - Parts

I have a 1985 Old Ciera that can use some sprucing up.

The adhesive bonding the fabric to the ceiling of the car has
apparently dried up, so that it droops all over the place.  Not a
pretty sight.

I have heard several different things that could be done to remedy the
situation, such as tack it back into place, find a spray adhesive that
will bond it back into place, and so on.

One fella told me that the ceiling of the interior is installed as a
single piece, that if the molding around the doors and the dome light
is removed, it will come out in one piece.  Is that true?

If it is true, how would I go about finding a replacement?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob Penniston
Kansas City, MO

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:21:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

One version of the song was by a bay area band called - get this-

Mitch Woods & His Rocket 88's.

cf

>Help Oldsheads,
>What was the name of the jazz/blues group who did that Rocket 88 song. I
>have a copy of the song for the Multimedia section but I dont know the name
>of the group.
>
>           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
>'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
>            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:21:42 -0400
Subject: 65 98 Soon 4 Sale

Yesterday I happened by the St.Vincent DePaul Society thrift store in San
Jose, Ca. and came across a pretty o.k. 65 98 4 door. SVDP is a charitable
org. The
98 was complete in apparently running condition, but had not been smogged.
No price on it. It will be for sale

There were a heck of a lot of good parts on it and only minor body damage.
Fenders and doors good, some fixable rear 1/4 damage and it needs a new
right taillight bezel.

Does anyone have any interest in it? It was white with beige cloth/vinyl
interior, no tilt/tele, aftermarket air, non-smog heads 425 with a 4GC
carb on the intake. Original thru & thru 'cept the a/c.

While looking it over, I kept thinking of the kid with the stray saying
"can I keep it?" Anyway, even if you don't need the car, it could be
great for parts.

There was an even better 2 bbl 67 P*ntiac Catalina convert there for $2750
or so. Complete but interior disassembled.

Reason for the cars, I think, is that this time of year everyone donates
them for the tax write off. Search your own communities for this kind of
treasure trove, I'd be surprised if the same phenomenon weren't happening
across the US in December of each year for the writeoff.

FWIW
cf

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:19:51 -0400
Subject: Re: For Ohio Readers Only

Hi Paul,
     I am curious as to why you want to go so far east to stop (or even why
you want stop except to rendezvous with other caravans). I should think that
straight up Rt 127 would be the best way. Tell me more.
                                                                  Ron Forsee
65
                                                                  65
442-meister

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:21:38 -0400
Subject: Engine Refresh Options?

Ladies & Gentlemen,
The dreaded blue smoke is starting to come out of my 98 when cold. I know
I have some bad rings among the 8 cylinders and some crud built up in
the heads from running the Holley too rich.

The motor has been rebuilt once .030 over about 100,000 miles ago, the
heads were ported and setup for unleaded at that time. I don't want to
discard the heads, crank or block, unless necessary.

What are my options from here regarding rebuild or refresh? I recall hearing
about a ring & valve job when I was younger, does such a thing exist short
of a rebuild? How could you change rings without yanking the pistons?

Look forward to your advice on this. Also many thanks for your comments
on the Fuel Injection question. Don't think I'll do that unless I get the
bottom end and valves sorted out. Seems sort of pointless.
TIA
cf

------------------------------

From: Junior627@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:35:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Exhaust System

In a message dated 97-02-19 12:53:48 EST, you write:

<<   I have 2 1/4" Walkers on my '87 Cutlass and they sound pretty good. I
 don't know about the performance differences between Flowmaster or Walker.
 I'm happy with mine though. >>

how much did you pay for these and from where...

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:38:36 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

the chevy 350 is a good engine, but the real reason it the main gm
powerplant is corporate politics. olds mngt the last few years lost the
olds identity and spirit. its also a numbers game if gm wants to reduce
its v8's the chevy has the most mnfg ability and cost effect. i hope the
"aurora spirit" re-stores the rocket div. wouldnt it be great to see a
new cutlass w a 4.0 aurora v8. think of the debates we could have naming
it. 4-4-2?

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:44:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Buick in a ch*vy?  (was Re: Buick 350, 400)

the 455 bore is the same as the 425, the is the difference. modello has
tech book the has lots of good info on this subject.

------------------------------

From: Frank Gonzalez <PLPAUDIO@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:59:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs Chevy

>
> Hey now lets be nice ;) I would love to match up against a car like a 70
> W-31. Would be a good race...
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
> 93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
> 80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

Different strokes for different folks.
No offense meant,I just think that there was a lot of potential in
the Olds and dont think that the basic design of Chevy is better.
I myself own cars by other manufacturers but my one true love
will always be pre 90's Olds.
Unfortunately I dont own the W-31 anymore but do have W-30 although on
street tires I think the 31 was faster stoplight to stoplight.
In case your wondering about my info I have owned 17 4-4-2's in past
18 yrs and have taken roughly half of them to track.The one I regret
selling most was my high school car a 72 W-30 Convt.I tracked the
owner down but he has done a full resto of car and does not want to
sell.
Later,
Frank Gonzalez
70 4-4-2
71 4-4-2 W-31 convt
72 Cutlass S
90 LSC

------------------------------

From: Junior627@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:12:14 -0400
Subject: Fwd: parts needed

- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    parts needed
Date:    97-02-23 13:10:18 EST
From:    Junior627
To:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ca.ns

i was looking for replacement light housings for my 85 delta 88(2 door) i
need all four but would be happy with just the right rear and the
front(hopefully both)...i was also wondering if anyone was selling rims that
will look nice on my delta...does anyone have the price for a dual output
dynomax muffeler with about 2 1/4 in/outs...one more thing what is involved
if i where going to try and repaint my car...it has some rust and all the
paint is chipping and fadding...
thanx in advance...

- ----------------------------
Nicolo A. Michelli Jr.
junior627@aol.com
85 Delta 88
V6 231 3.8L Rwd
- ----------------------------

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:22:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

Since y'all are on the topic anyway....

Howling Wolf (a.k.a. Chester Burnett) wrote a song in which he raves about
his Rocket Oldsmobile...

"My Mind is Ramblin' "  (2:45)

Recorded in Chicago (presumably at the Chess studio) ca. 1966
The known musicians were Herbert Sumlin on guitar, Henry Gray on piano, and
Sam Lay on drums, with others unknown.

This song was allegedly unissued/unreleased until the 1984 LP "Chess Blues
Rarities"  # CH-2-9230

Anyone who is genuinely interested need only E-mail me to recieve a tape of
this song via snail mail.

Sometime after I set up my web page I'll try to see if I can't include this
song as a music option (if that is possible).

If anyone has experience in recording/sending as E-mail *.wav files I would
welcome the input. (I've got plenty of patch cords lying around here)

Oooops! I seem to have rambled on some, sorry.

Karl Erik Aune
6219 N. Greenview #2
Chicago ,IL
60660
1965 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88

"Real men can do anything with duct tape."

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:41:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

Gentlemen and Oldsmobilers (sometimes separate entities). Being a chemist, I
can say that a surfactant does affect surface tension, but I won't bore you
with the details. However, could someone pass along the name of a shop which
is likely to have a branch in Chicago that might carry "watter wetter" ?
Perhaps Pep Boys (Parts USA), or Murray's, or even (ugh) Forest City Auto
Parts?

Thanks

Karl Erik Aune
Chicago IL
1965 Dynamic 88

Duct tape forever

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:45:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Refresh Options?

- ----------
> From: Christian Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
> To: Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Engine Refresh Options?
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 11:21 AM
>
> Ladies & Gentlemen,
> The dreaded blue smoke is starting to come out of my 98 when cold. I know
> I have some bad rings among the 8 cylinders and some crud built up in
> the heads from running the Holley too rich.
>
> The motor has been rebuilt once .030 over about 100,000 miles ago, the
> heads were ported and setup for unleaded at that time. I don't want to
> discard the heads, crank or block, unless necessary.
>
> What are my options from here regarding rebuild or refresh? I recall
hearing
> about a ring & valve job when I was younger, does such a thing exist
short
> of a rebuild? How could you change rings without yanking the pistons?
>
> Look forward to your advice on this. Also many thanks for your comments
> on the Fuel Injection question. Don't think I'll do that unless I get the
> bottom end and valves sorted out. Seems sort of pointless.
> TIA
> cf
>	 There has been many a engine "refreshed" by pulling the heads and 
pan,
honeing the cylinders replaceing the rings and haveing the valves and seats
reground. Sometimes this will last for lots of miles but that is only if
the block isn't worn beyond about .006 and the main bearings and cam
bearings are still in good shape, You still have a timeing chain and lots
of other parts with 100.000 miles in them to worry about.I am not sure how
hard it is to remove the pan with your engine still in the car and it is
hard to get the residue left from honeing all out with it still in the car.
	Probably the best way to go about it is to pull it out. Tear it 
completely
down. Have the block and crank checked if you don't have a micrometer. If
the cylinders and crank are ok clean the ring grooves and reuse them. 455
pistons are pretty expensive compared to most engines. If reboreing is
nessasary have them put the new pistons on the rods for you. For a few
extra bucks most shops will clean all your sheet metal which can save hours
of scrubbing on your part. Have the block vatted honed and new cam bearings
and freeze plugs installed. Have them do a valve job too of course They
should also check for cracks worn guides ect.  Replace the cam,lifters,
timeing gears and chain, oil pump, rod and main bearings. Look the rocker
arms and pushrods over to make sure they are ok  Clean every thing until
you would eat off it and put it back together and enjoy lots more miles of
good service.
	I haven't tried the 460 rear main seal tip that the wiz has posted but
most 455 gasket sets come with a rope seal that is difficult to install
properly so it sounds  like a good idea. He said a one piece seal. I know
the older 460 had a 2 piece seal I guess they changed like they did on
their smaller engines. If this one piece seal would work it would have to
be put on the crank before the crank was installed in the block and
couldn't be changed without pulling the crank. It still would be worthwhile
in my opinon.
Walter

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:56:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronouncing 442

>I think if this subject is discussed ten or fifteen more days then all the
>hungry people of the Earth will be fed, the homeless will have shelter, and
all
>the warring nations will declare peace. That's just how important this
subject >is. > >Art Fuller >'70 442 Convt. >'70 four forty-two coupe, or
whatever anybody wants to call it.

Umm, is that coupe a "coop" or a "coop-ay" or is the "p" supposed to be
silent? :)

	Oh dear.  I guess it's my turn.

	Q.  Why does a chicken coop only have two doors?

	A.  If it had four doors it would be a sedan.

	Well, it was car related, sort of...

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\ (810)
825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/ Sterling Hts.,
MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:55:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

- ----------
> From: KarlAunan@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 12:22 PM
>
> Since y'all are on the topic anyway....
>
> Howling Wolf (a.k.a. Chester Burnett) wrote a song in which he raves
about
> his Rocket Oldsmobile...
>
> "My Mind is Ramblin' "  (2:45)
>
> Recorded in Chicago (presumably at the Chess studio) ca. 1966
> The known musicians were Herbert Sumlin on guitar, Henry Gray on piano,
and
> Sam Lay on drums, with others unknown.
>
> This song was allegedly unissued/unreleased until the 1984 LP "Chess
Blues
> Rarities"  # CH-2-9230
>
> Anyone who is genuinely interested need only E-mail me to recieve a tape
of
> this song via snail mail.
>
> Sometime after I set up my web page I'll try to see if I can't include
this
> song as a music option (if that is possible).
>
> If anyone has experience in recording/sending as E-mail *.wav files I
would
> welcome the input. (I've got plenty of patch cords lying around here)
>
> Oooops! I seem to have rambled on some, sorry.
>
> Karl Erik Aune
> 6219 N. Greenview #2
> Chicago ,IL
> 60660
> 1965 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88
>
> "Real men can do anything with duct tape."
>
> Wav files are pretty easy to make with a PC and probably with a Mac too.
Sound blaster 16 comes with the software. I would think other sound cards
do too. I can make them direct from my CD Rom or by patching from the
earphone jack on a tapeplayer  to the input on the sound card. If you have
a option in your software set it for mono or the file gets pretty big and
takes forever to send dcc. Wav files can be sent E-mail or DCC.

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:09:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Rocket 88 Song

In a message dated 97-02-23 14:04:18 EST, jones@morgan.net wrote:

<<  Wav files are pretty easy to make with a PC and probably with a Mac too.
 Sound blaster 16 comes with the software. I would think other sound cards
 do too. I can make them direct from my CD Rom or by patching from the
 earphone jack on a tapeplayer  to the input on the sound card. If you have
 a option in your software set it for mono or the file gets pretty big and
 takes forever to send dcc. Wav files can be sent E-mail or DCC.
  >>

Thanks, will let y'all know if/when *.wav file is available.

Karl Erik Aune
Chicago IL
1965 Dynamic 88

(Duct taping .wav files to E-mail!)

------------------------------

From: "Todd Wallin" <twallin@grant.tds.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:23:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 problem history

Pat,
   Maybe you already have the answer to your question but here is a
thought from me.  I am an automotive technician, I'm only 20 yrs. old
though and missed the hayday of these wonderful vehicles.  I have
worked on quite a few of them though, being it is the second love of
my life, and I have found that about a quart ever 3000 miles is
normal for these engines and you usually can't find where it is
going.  You are using much more though!  You don't say what year the
307 is.  Certain years they used chrome/moly rings and they were so
hard that they trashed the cylinder walls.  I doubt that this is the
case though because when they usually went it was almost always
between 80-100 thousand miles, and they blew smoke terrible.  If you
had a head gasket or cracked head problem you would get coolant in
your oil not oil in your coolant.
   Try this simple test find a big hill.  Before the top of the hill
let off the gas and coast from about 45 at the top of the hill.
About halfway down the hill watch the rearview mirror for smoke and
give it some gas, don't floor it but don't baby it either.  This will
sometime show the problem.  Also from the bottom of the hill start
out at about 45 and give it the pedal under load while climing the
hill, trying to increase speed, again watch your rearview for smoke
from the tailpipe.  Also you can try having someone hold a piece of
white paper behind the tailpipe, not touching it, when you start the
car.  any water or gas that is spit out will evaporate off of the
paper after a bit but oil will stay behind.  It would not be uncommon
for this car to use that much oil just on start ups and once the
engine warms up the rings seal, within 30 seconds to a couple
minutes.

   These are just some ideas, I have more if you can tell me what
year the engine is and what the orriginal car is that it is in or
from.  Hope it helps.

Todd Wallin
twallin@grant.tds.net
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:54:05 -0400
Subject: Re: '85 Ciera - Parts

Bob Pennington,
What has happened to your headliner is that the foam core to your headliner
has deteriorated. They will not glue back up. The headliner has to come out
and a new one installed. This is easier than redoing a bows and listing
headliner found in older cars.
When you remove the molding the whole top will come  down. If the molding
has screws that is the easiest. If not you will have to gently pry the
clips out and they usually break. So plan extra time down so that you can
order the clips. If you get the molding out without breaking clips you get
a medal! The clips are more or less made to break not to be removable.
Carefully pull the fabric off of the board. If it is cardboard it is not so
delicate--if it is layered fiberglass if is a bit more delicate. Then
gently using an old scrub brush (clean) or a rag 'scrape' the old foam off
of the board.
It is very important to get it all off as the new headliner will not stick
well if the old foam is left on. It is like glueing to sand.
To figure your material measure from front to back and add about six inches
just for luck.The headliner material is a bit wider than most cars but
measure and check just to be sure. If you can take a sun visor (if it is
the same material) and try to match that. If you have to have the visors
recovered plan on getting a little extra material and having a professional
do them.The headliner material comes foam backed all you have to do is glue
it to the board.
Use 3M 8080 spray glue. It will take about two cans. Lay out your material
and have a helper and both of you must have CLEAN hands. Fold back half of
the material--over itself--and spray about a foot or so of the board and
material. Then gently lay the material back down and smooth it as you lay
it down on the glue. Smooth out wrinkles as you go and DON'T  pull it at
all. Then lay the other side of the material over the part you just glued
and repeat --glue only as large a section as you feel comfortable with.
After glueing the whole thing down let it set for about an hour or so then
trim the edges and cut only the interior light hole out. Keep your helper
as you will need their hands when you put the board back in the car. I put
the light back first as it is usually in the middle of the top and  helps
to hold the board, then I start with the trim as long  as the visors don't
need to be put in first. When you get ready to do the visors  find the hole
in the car itself  and cut a small x in the material with an exacto or
sharp knife, use a long needle to find your screw holes. Tighten the screws
slowly--watch for the screw to catch the material, if it does unsrew it and
make a small cut and then start over. Using a needle instead of a
screwdriver or ice pick is best as a needle won't leave a hole the other
items will leave an ugly little hole.
Be sure and use plenty of glue and take your time. The material can be
bought from an upholstry shop or better yet from the warehouse itself. Most
of them will sell to the general public, but shops get better
prices---shops will not always pass the price  break to you though.
These are easy to do in a day (less really) and not that hard to do. The
hardest part is if you have clips holding the molding on. These are
impossible to remove with out breaking most of them. It is the way they are
made and their age. Be prepared to get new ones. It is also very hard to
get new ones ahead of time as they usually use different ones for the sides
 and the front and back. Car manufactures---go figure!
If you have any other questions I will be glad to help.
Mary Jones
jones@morgan.net
- ----------
> From: rrpennjr@swbell.net
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: '85 Ciera - Parts
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 1:11 PM
>
> I have a 1985 Old Ciera that can use some sprucing up.
>
> The adhesive bonding the fabric to the ceiling of the car has
> apparently dried up, so that it droops all over the place.  Not a
> pretty sight.
>
> I have heard several different things that could be done to remedy the
> situation, such as tack it back into place, find a spray adhesive that
> will bond it back into place, and so on.
>
> One fella told me that the ceiling of the interior is installed as a
> single piece, that if the molding around the doors and the dome light
> is removed, it will come out in one piece.  Is that true?
>
> If it is true, how would I go about finding a replacement?
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Penniston
> Kansas City, MO
>

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:04:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Leaking Lena

In a message dated 97-02-12 23:45:22 EST, Dennis J. Sytsma wrote:

<< If the engine has excessive blowby from bad rings it will leak no matter
 what you do.  To check for excessive blowby remove the oil filler cap.
 start the engine and observe for excessive gases. hold your hand over the
 filler tube.  If you have lots of wind past your hand its bad news.  >>

So.... then there is an innocuous gas flow rate from the filler cap? Would
someone care to comment on this? What rate of gas/vapor flow would be bad?

Thanks

Karl Erik Aune
Chicago IL
1965 Dynamic 88

------------------------------

From: "Bud & Sandy Walls" <jfreak@mail.bright.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:23:35 -0400
Subject: power steering info



------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:38:26 -0400
Subject: power steering conversion

i want to improve the steering ratio on 1967 4-4-2, year one list a gear
box to quicken the steering, but at hefty price. i've read of switching
gear boxes with the "g" body cutlass', has anyone done this, and what
years fit?

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:53:02 -0400
Subject: Re: more engine questions

> Comparing the last Oldsmobile engine to the current LT1 Chevy is like
> comparing apples to pineapples.
>
> Bob McElroy

The lt-1 was designed using a computer, robots and not to mention 50
years of development on overhead valve engines. The Olds 350 was
designed by men using slide rules and drafting tables. Pound for pound
I'll stick with the Oldsmobile because it is still user serviceable. If
the lt-1 stops running on the side of the road there is likely no way
(barring out of gas) that it can be repaired on the road-side. Don't get
me wrong, the technology is incredidable. The fixed the inherent flaws
of the ch*vy engine.

Danny

------------------------------

From: "Bud & Sandy Walls" <jfreak@mail.bright.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:42:57 -0400
Subject: [none]

I have a 55 Olds 98 and wheniturn rather sharply to the left, I get a
grinding noise.  there is no steering difficulty, just the noise.  Can you
help?

------------------------------

From: Ryan Hehn <RYANH@docker.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:48:24 -0400
Subject: 80 Cutlass grille

A friend of mine is looking for the driver's side grille for his '80
Cutlass 2-dr.  This is the chrome vertical slats pattern.  If anyone has
one or a lead on one, please email me directly.


On a sidenote, I recently read that Olds is dropping the Achieva.  No
big surprise there...but does this mean there will soon be no such thing
as an Olds 2-dr???

Ryan Hehn
ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:00:59 -0400
Subject: Re: (no subject)

can you give us more info, does the car have to be moving, have you
changed tire sizes, ad any work done on front end, etc?

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:10:34 -0400
Subject: Re: noisey 98

Bud & Sandy Walls wrote:
>
> I have a 55 Olds 98 and wheniturn rather sharply to the left, I get a
> grinding noise.  there is no steering difficulty, just the noise.  Can you
> help?

If the sound is coming from the front check the tires. An out of camber
tire might be rubbing the inside of the wheel well. Also, check the tie
rod ends and ball joints. If the sound is coming from the rear check
your differential fluid for level and bits of metal.

Danny

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:25:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 80 Cutlass grille

> On a sidenote, I recently read that Olds is dropping the Achieva.  No
> big surprise there...but does this mean there will soon be no such thing
> as an Olds 2-dr???
>
I was talking to an Olds salesman and he said that the two doors are on
the way out. Explaining he said " Olds is going to compete with l*xus
and the other sport/sedan companies." I think they have the fool idea
that people don't want two doors anymore. When you think about it
though, they (meaning product designers) have always been telling us
what we want. It just so happened 30 years ago they got it right.

Danny

> Ryan Hehn
> ryanh@docker.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:07:14 -0400
Subject: RE: Engine Refresh Options?

Without getting into a long drawn out explantion here as appears to be =
the norm here, it may seem that you may only need new valve seals. These =
are easy to put on and can be done without removing the head.

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:54:18 -0400
Subject: Thanks

I hope that I didn't get too snippy in my frustration to solve my 307Y
troubles. The people here have been terrific!  There's no way I could have
found this info without your help.  Many Thanks!

I have a two-ton wagon that needs a little more pep.  I'm thinking I should
either find a 307"9" or rebuild a 350 using my manifolds, carb, and
distributor. Any comments?  If I get a "rebuilt" 307"9" can I use my "Y"
harmonic balancer? Will my 307 parts work on a 350?  How much do the OEM
roller lifters/cam help my economy?  This thing has geven me 24 mpg on a trip
before; that's not too hard to take.  Which idea is the best?

Pat

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:54:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 problem history

Todd, its an 87 307Y in an 87 Pontiac Wagon.  SRB442 thinks I may have out of
round cylinders from a bad job at the factory.  It started with a qt/1000 at
36000 mi and is now a qt/400 as of 46000 mi.  I've heard of this (oil
consumption) before on another 87 and tend to believe SRB442.  I further think
 that the catalyst & the A.I.R. is controlling the smoke with the only
noticeable side effect is the soot on the bumper.

------------------------------

From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:55:26 -0400
Subject: 307 again

Many Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply.  I hope I haven't sounded
 ungrateful in my frustration to get my info.  I live in a small town with a
bad library.  I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed EVERYBODY's help--I'd
have never learned all this without you.

I'd love to hear any ideas on what any of you would do to get a little more
power, while keeping the fuel mileage up and the emissions down.  Nothin' like
 wanting one's cake and eating it too...

Again, many thanks,
Pat

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:21:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs. Chevy

> However, your quieter remark doesn't quite hit the mark, if one assumes that
> the adjustable valve train in the Chevy is responsible for the noise!  Where
> in, the noise has value in other departments.

The many LT1's I've listened to are fairly new, and each one has a
rhythmic clickety-click valvetrain noise at idle.  This hashy sound is
also faintly audible inside the car during light acceleration; this may be
more evident in cars like the Imp*la, which would have less sound
insulation than your Buick.  Some LT1's do exhibit abnormal noise, and a
service bulletin regarding insufficient lubrication of the exhaust valve
stems covers this.  C*rvettes have unique, heavy plastic rocker arm and
fuel rail covers that help to quell the racket quite effectively.  In my
experience, a 220,000 mile Olds 350, a couple 307's and several Cadillac
engines (one with over 300,000 miles, all have a non-adjustable
valvetrain) are all more mellifluous in operation.  Roller lifter 307's
do run a bit more noisily than older ones.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:20:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 problem history

You are correct in thinking oil can be burnt without any smoke. I have a
heater in my shop that burns motor oil and once it is at operating temp
there is nothing comeing from the chimney but heat waves.

- ----------
> From: prlmteed@idcnet.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 307 problem history
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 3:54 PM
>
> .  I further think
> that the catalyst & the A.I.R. is controlling the smoke with the only
noticeable
> side effect is the soot on the bumper.
>

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:40:57 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 problem history

> Todd, its an 87 307Y in an 87 Pontiac Wagon.  SRB442 thinks I may have out
of > round cylinders from a bad job at the factory.  It started with a
qt/1000 at > 36000 mi and is now a qt/400 as of 46000 mi.  I've heard of this
(oil > consumption) before on another 87 and tend to believe SRB442.  I
further think > that the catalyst & the A.I.R. is controlling the smoke with
the only > noticeable side effect is the soot on the bumper.

My '88 307 has used 1 quart every 3000 miles since new, despite a very
meticulous break-in.  In comparison, my '83 307 burns less than 1/3 of a
quart by the 3000 mark.  The A.I.R. system shouldn't have any impact on
controlling smoke.  I concur with you on the catalytic converter; it can
reduce the visible effects of burning oil.  I'm curious as to what others
have to say about the soot on the bumper, and its relationship to the
engine's oil consumption.  Perhaps the carburetor is producing too rich a
mixture under some conditions.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:49:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds 403

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Gerald Hughes wrote:

> I have an Olds 403 engine That I want to get ride of!!! If anyone is
> intrested please email me!!! It got every thing block, heads, crank,
> rods, pistons, manifold, everything a stock 403 came with!!!!!
> How much would this engine be worth running and not running?  How much
> would be considered a good price if one was to buy it to rebuild.
>
> Also,  Is this a good motor to rebuild for performance?  What kind of
> other block components are compatible?  What kind of transmission will
> bolt up to it?
>
> Has anyone seen a 403 run an Olds into the 12's?
>
> 						Gerald Hughes
> 						79 Hurst/Olds
>

Yes, actually I have seen a 403 run 12's. The car was a mid 80's Cutlass
with 3.73's, slicks, TH700R4 with an adapter plate to mount to the Olds,
3000 stall conveter and a bunch of Mondello goodies in the engine. The
car was a daily driver (which is why the owner installed the Th700) and
it was running 12.8's and 12.9's the night I saw it. Very clean too..

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
>

------------------------------

From: Joe Fauzio <galusha@postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:07:38 -0400
Subject: 71 442 Questions

My e-mail (Eudora lite) stopped working and I had to download a new
version. I thought the new version would install over the old one, but it
didn't. I lost all the messages that pertained to the few things that I
want to do to my car. I'm sorry to say that I'm going have ask questions
that were already answered. I hope nobody minds.
Tomorrow I'm going to order a HEI distributor from Mondello. I know I need
a solid state regulator, but what else do I need? I need a new exhaust
system. I didn't measure the pipe from the manifold to the muffler, but the
tail pipe is 2 inch.  Should I put 2 1/2 pipes all the way back and I don't
remember what was said about the Flowmaster muffler? Again, I want to
apologize to every one for asking these questions again.

Thanks

Joe 442

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:14:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs. Chevy

At 07:21 PM 2/23/97 -0400, Kevin Wong wrote:
>> However, your quieter remark doesn't quite hit the mark, if one assumes
that >> the adjustable valve train in the Chevy is responsible for the noise!
Where >> in, the noise has value in other departments. > >The many LT1's I've
listened to are fairly new, and each one has a >rhythmic clickety-click
valvetrain noise at idle.  This hashy sound is >also faintly audible inside
the car during light acceleration; this may be >more evident in cars like the
Imp*la, which would have less sound >insulation than your Buick.  Some LT1's
do exhibit abnormal noise, and a >service bulletin regarding insufficient
lubrication of the exhaust valve >stems covers this.

Interesting. My LT1 is as quiet as can be. Much more quieter than the 350 in
my 80 442. My LT1 has 21,000. A buddy of mine has a 95 Impala SS that I have
driven, it is as quiet as mine too? Noise inside my car is non-evident. In
fact my 80 442 has one of the noisest engines I have ever had in a car. It
has 92,000, doesn't leak or consume oil at all.

>Roller lifter 307's do run a bit more noisily than older ones.

The 307 in our 86 Buick Electra Wagon is a very quiet engine. Don't even
know if it is running half the time.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  f-list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28......Patriot Red, TFX cat-back, blackouts, Firehawk SVX tires
80 Olds 4-4-2  W-30..http://www.442.com/labay.html

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:20:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 71 442 Questions

if your alt has an internal reg you wont need another reg. just 12 volt
lead from ignition and remember that the hei dist, #1 position is diff.

------------------------------

From: "Brian Lorway" <blorway@rust.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:17:55 -0400
Subject: 67' 4-4-2 convertible $$$...

Does anyone have any ideas on what a 67' 4-4-2 convertible in show winning
stock condition would bring pricewise? Also worth noting... The vehicle has
only had two owners and all original documentation exists, such as the
window sticker etc. Does this model 4-4-2 have any notorious body / frame
rust problems that i sould be on the lookout for? Any info. would be
appreciated!

Regards,
Brian

1970 4-4-2 W-30

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:23:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 71 442 Questions

what kind of exh manifold are you using?

------------------------------

From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:33:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale

JOHN L. BERENYI wrote:
>
> Mondello cam NIB #JM16/18H.........$50
>
> 66 442 wheel well moulding..........$25
>
> 69 442 4 spoke aluminum sport steering wheel......$95
>
> John  (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)

	I need to know if this steering wheel is correct for the 1969 Cutlass.
I need to the color and if it comes with mounting hardware and
horn button.

					John Foster

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:35:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 67' 4-4-2 convertible $$$...

i saw advertised for $21000, saw pictues, but didnt see in person, saw
another sell for $16000, have you seen the car and how much would you
pay for it? all '67 's had leakage around lower winshield corners and
frames after years and caused floorboard rust problems. remove threshold
trim and pull bacl carpet from front floor corners to check. also check
trunk floors and side cavities. the lower edge of rear glass can leak.
front fenders behind the wheel wells at lower lip have a tendency to
trap dirt and moisture causing rust to eat thru below the bsm.  i hope
this helps. e-mail me more about this car, i'm a nut for the early
4-4-2's. doug


------------------------------

From: scott or sharon <jerdan@EROLS.COM>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:37:34 -0400
Subject: M-21 Troubles

Hello,
Hope someone can help me.  I just put the engine and transmission back into
my 70 W-30 after having both the engine and transmission rebuilt.  The
engine runs fine but I can't shift into 1,2,3, or 4th.  It will shift into
reverse with a little work.  When I had the engine and transmission out of
the car everything seemed to work ok.  The shifter moved the transmission
through the gears fine.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Scott Jerdan
70 W-30 (Almost on the road again)

------------------------------

From: Joe Fauzio <galusha@postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:37:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 71 442 Questions

At 08:23 PM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>what kind of exh manifold are you using?
>

It's the stock manifold. The car now has Midas mufflers on it. >
>

------------------------------

From: "Bud & Sandy Walls" <jfreak@mail.bright.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:36:17 -0400
Subject: Re: (no subject)

I HAVE NOT changed tire sizes.  Yes the car has to be moving.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAlso, a 55 )Olds does not have ball joints.
  I'm suspecting a problem in my steering box.  Is that any help?

- ----------
> From: doug thompson <DKTBAT@webtv.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: (no subject)
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 4:00 PM
>
> can you give us more info, does the car have to be moving, have you
> changed tire sizes, ad any work done on front end, etc?
>

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:37:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale

i didn't think the 4 spoke came out till '70 model, the '68 and '69 had
a 3 spoke similar to corvette.

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:55:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds vs. Chevy

> Interesting. My LT1 is as quiet as can be. Much more quieter than the 350 in
> my 80 442. My LT1 has 21,000. A buddy of mine has a 95 Impala SS that I have
> driven, it is as quiet as mine too? Noise inside my car is non-evident. In
> fact my 80 442 has one of the noisest engines I have ever had in a car. It
> has 92,000, doesn't leak or consume oil at all.

The hashy valvetrain noise is most apparent when listening to an idling
engine with the hood up.  Sorry, I wasn't clear about the listening
conditions.  I noticed a dramatic improvement when I added the C*rvette
rocker arm covers to my '95 Fleetwood, both inside (I am a nitpick for
even the slightest noise) and outside (had to lean over a lot closer to
the engine to hear the perturbance), which was surprising to me, as this
was beyond my expectations.  The idea for this modification came from the
Imp*la SS list; many members have added these covers with similar results.
What is the character and source of the noise in your 442?

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:56:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Refresh Options?

At 13:21 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ladies & Gentlemen,
>The dreaded blue smoke is starting to come out of my 98 when cold.

  If you are only seeing this at start-up it is very possible that it's just
valve guide seals that are needed.  With worn valve guide seals the oil will
drain down the valve stems to the cylinder over a short period of time,
usually after the car has sat for awhile. Therefore, when you fire it up you
end up burning off the oil that has seeped down the valve stems and into the
cylinders. Hence, the blue smoke.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:36:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 71 442 Questions

the year one co. has repro exhaust system that fits like the orig, but
is also the orig diam. for larger sizes that fit try torque tech. inc.
(800)408-0016, i have also used their products, and am satisfied. they
also have several different diam's avail. hope this might help. doug

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:36:41 -0400
Subject: H*lp Needed for Parts

 My brother has been providing me wih shipping of hard/large parts from all
over the country for a few years now for my 4-4-2. It hasn't cost me a cent
for shipping and I'd like to help him out in locating parts for his project.
I told him that I will do the searching for the parts that he needs because
he doesn't have the computer/net capabilities.  The parts he is looking for
are for a '64 Plymouth Valiant. I need to know where to search them for him.
Can anyone here direct me to a site that can aid me in searching out parts
for this type car?

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:39:48 -0400
Subject: Re: M-21 Troubles

make sure your clutch is giving enough release. check your free play at
clutch pedal, should move about 3/4 inch before feeling pressure. adjust
as needed. i hope this helps, doug

------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:56:20 -0400
Subject: Re: H*lp Needed for Parts

> My brother has been providing me wih shipping of hard/large parts from all
>over the country for a few years now for my 4-4-2. It hasn't cost me a cent
>for shipping and I'd like to help him out in locating parts for his project.
>I told him that I will do the searching for the parts that he needs because
>he doesn't have the computer/net capabilities.  The parts he is looking for
>are for a '64 Plymouth Valiant. I need to know where to search them for him.
>Can anyone here direct me to a site that can aid me in searching out parts
>for this type car?
>
>
>Hey, try this one:

www.worldparts.com

Was suggested by someone else on this list.  I haven't tried it yet myself,
but it came recommended.  Good luck!
Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:12:19 -0400
Subject: Transmission Shavings

Howdy folks,

This weekend, I changed the ATF and filter in my THM200C and found a
fair amount of shavings in the bottom of the pan.  I know some shavings
are normal, but I had enough to coat the bottom and a rather large pile
in the center of the pan.  Is this abnormal?  Also, it seems that my
torque converter locks up too low and stays locked up, even down to
about 25 mph.  This setting is not something I can change is it?  Thanks
for any answers.
- --
  /     ______________________________________     \
 /-----\                                      /-----\
 |     |             Jason Adcock             |     |
 |  |  |          adcockjk@erols.com          |  |  |
 |  |  | http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason  |  |  |
 | /|\ |       1984 Cutlass Calais RWD        | /|\ |
 |  |  |--------------------------------------|  |  |
 |     |------------/            \------------|     |
 \-----/____________|____________|____________\-----/
/                                                    \
\____________________________________________________/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:36:13 -0400
Subject: Re: more 307

At 11:02 AM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Pat,
>      I have been working on Cadillacs for the last 20 years and we used the
>307 Y motor from 86-90. I have seen some of these motors use oil as you
>describe. What it was was out of round cylinder bores that caused excessive
>oil consumption. The blocks were not fully cured when bored and the cylinders
>would go out of round. I have heard if you get one to 60k and it is not using
>oil then it will not start. You will probably have to eithere rebuild the
>motor you got or a replacement. I have replaced a number of these for this
>problem. These are my experiences only and there could be other explanations
>for this.
>
>
Steve

Ok, sounds plausible.  Would not this condition cause symptoms in the motor,
that were akin to badly worn rings, mainly 'blow by?'

And if so, would it not be possible to determine the nature of the offending
problem (either out of round bores, or worn out rings) be noticable as
either blue smoke in the exhaust, oily tail pipe and excessive fumes if you
checked in the motor oil inlet or EGR? (or these conditions in multiple.)

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:46:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Refresh Options?

At 01:21 PM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ladies & Gentlemen,
>The dreaded blue smoke is starting to come out of my 98 when cold. I know
>I have some bad rings among the 8 cylinders and some crud built up in
>the heads from running the Holley too rich.
>
>The motor has been rebuilt once .030 over about 100,000 miles ago, the
>heads were ported and setup for unleaded at that time. I don't want to
>discard the heads, crank or block, unless necessary.
>
>What are my options from here regarding rebuild or refresh? I recall hearing
>about a ring & valve job when I was younger, does such a thing exist short
>of a rebuild? How could you change rings without yanking the pistons?
>
>Look forward to your advice on this. Also many thanks for your comments
>on the Fuel Injection question. Don't think I'll do that unless I get the
>bottom end and valves sorted out. Seems sort of pointless.
>TIA
>cf

A ring and valve job is only short bearings to be a complete 'block'
overhaul.  With 100,000 miles, everything is going to be a bit loose, even
the bearings.  And if you're going to ring it, at least check the bearings,
and put new ones in, or even grind the crank, and put in new bearings, if
the oil gap is excessive.  Factory allowance for the oil is 0.0015" and that
is not a very large gap.  I don't think it is 'really' economically feasible
to tear the engine completely down and do a 50% job.

This is also a good time for a new fuel pump, and timing chain and sprockets.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:49:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Parts for sale

At 08:33 PM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>JOHN L. BERENYI wrote:
>>
>> Mondello cam NIB #JM16/18H.........$50
>>
>> 66 442 wheel well moulding..........$25
>>
>> 69 442 4 spoke aluminum sport steering wheel......$95
>>
>> John  (berenyi@texas.dseg.ti.com)
>
>	I need to know if this steering wheel is correct for the 1969 Cutlass.
>I need to the color and if it comes with mounting hardware and
>horn button.
>
>					John Foster
>

John

        No! The steering wheel has to be out of a 70 or newer. The 70-75
steering wheel everyone wants only came in black and had no stitching marks
around the rim. If it has stitching marks it's out of a mid 70's - early
80's Starfire. These also came in different colors and was usually color
coordinated to the interior. The 68 - 69 Sport Wheel is three spoked and is
identical to the early Camaro steering wheels. The Corvette wheel is deeper.
Hope this helps you.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:49:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Wetter

At 02:41 PM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Gentlemen and Oldsmobilers (sometimes separate entities). Being a chemist, I
>can say that a surfactant does affect surface tension, but I won't bore you
>with the details. However, could someone pass along the name of a shop which
>is likely to have a branch in Chicago that might carry "watter wetter" ?
>Perhaps Pep Boys (Parts USA), or Murray's, or even (ugh) Forest City Auto
>Parts?
>
>Thanks
>
>Karl Erik Aune
>Chicago IL
>1965 Dynamic 88
>
>Duct tape forever
>
>
>
>
Just for the h*ll of it, has anyone every tried Kodak 'Photo Flo' to make
their water wetter?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:55:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Transmission Shavings

At 01:12 AM 2/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Howdy folks,
>
>This weekend, I changed the ATF and filter in my THM200C and found a
>fair amount of shavings in the bottom of the pan.  I know some shavings
>are normal, but I had enough to coat the bottom and a rather large pile
>in the center of the pan.  Is this abnormal?  Also, it seems that my
>torque converter locks up too low and stays locked up, even down to
>about 25 mph.  This setting is not something I can change is it?  Thanks
>for any answers.



Jason

        This is NOT normal. It is common to find small shavings clinging to
the magnet in the pan. If it's any more than a thin coating there is some
major work coming in the near future. As for the torque converter, if it is
an early lock up unit al you have to do is unplug the connection at the
trans. This will make it just like all the early non-lock up trans. If it's
a computer job this function MUST be working properly otherwiae the trans
can burn up from it. There is a solenoid that signals the lock up and this
usually fails. It's about $40.00 from the dealer. Sorry I don't have a part
number handy.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:58:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Refresh Options?

	I haven't tried the 460 rear main seal tip that the wiz has posted but
>most 455 gasket sets come with a rope seal that is difficult to install
>properly so it sounds  like a good idea. He said a one piece seal. I know
>the older 460 had a 2 piece seal I guess they changed like they did on
>their smaller engines. If this one piece seal would work it would have to
>be put on the crank before the crank was installed in the block and
>couldn't be changed without pulling the crank. It still would be worthwhile
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>in my opinon.
>Walter
>
>
Curiosity makes me ask: can you change a 2 piece rear mail seal without
removing the Crankshaft?

The Wiz

P.S. I got the rear main seal tip, here, when I was acquiring parts to built
another 455.  I traded the car I was going to put the 455 in, so I have not
bothered to build it up yet; so it will be awhile, at least until warmer
weather, before I fool with it.  I'll post to here when I have more data on
this assembly.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:05:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Leaking Lena

At 04:04 PM 2/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-02-12 23:45:22 EST, Dennis J. Sytsma wrote:
>
><< If the engine has excessive blowby from bad rings it will leak no matter
> what you do.  To check for excessive blowby remove the oil filler cap.
> start the engine and observe for excessive gases. hold your hand over the
> filler tube.  If you have lots of wind past your hand its bad news.  >>
>
>So.... then there is an innocuous gas flow rate from the filler cap? Would
>someone care to comment on this? What rate of gas/vapor flow would be bad?
>
>Thanks
>
>Karl Erik Aune
>Chicago IL
>1965 Dynamic 88
>
>
In a properly running engine there will be virtually no volume of gases
exiting thru the oil filler cap, or the EGR valve hole.  In a properly
running engine the small volume of gases produced in the engine are sent
thru the engine and burned via the EGR.

The Wiz

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #532
********************************
