To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #589


oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 1 April 1997       Volume 01 : Number 589

Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
Re: Engine weights
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª588
Re: Bodies
Re: Underhood Lights
'78 442
Re: Fast reactions
Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
Re[2]: Bodies
Re: Bodies
Re: Re[2]: Bodies
Re: horn fuse
Re: '78 442
Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
330 Jetfire mods...
Re: '78 442
Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts & 442 Headers
Re: Fast reactions
Manual tranny questions
Re: '78 442
Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
Re: 502 swap into '71 cutlass
Re: OLDS 510 FOR BUILDUP
Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
Re: 442 in Missoula MT  and other babble...
Re: Looking for parts
Fake 442?
Re[2]: Fast reactions
RE: Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts
Re[4]: Bodies
Conversion
FYI HEI
Switched from power to manual steering
Re: Air Compressor Deal [was Re: Good Welder]
Re: Fake 442?
RE: Looking for SSI wheels
RE: Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts
Re[2]: '78 442
Well, one thing do to a Toro
Re: 85 Toronado Heater
Remove Power Accys?
Re: More on Knuckle Sandwiches
Re: Toro rod bolt nuts
'69 4-4-2 air cleaner color
Well, one OTHER thing do to a Toro
Engine weights
'56 Olds seatbelts
Re: Remove Power Accys?
RE: 82 Cutlass/455 - was Re: Misc comments and fee
Re: Re[2]: '78 442
Ohio Swap Meets...[Non Olds]
re:85 heater problem
Another Emissions Question...
Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro
502 swap into '71 cutlass
Re: More on the Knuckle Sandwich
Re: '69 4-4-2 air cleaner color
Power top
Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro
Re: Power top
Quantity of Oldsmobiles found !
Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro: Hurst Hairy Olds

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 04:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips

>> What was the change, you ask?  The secret is in the
>> first generation Toronados.  Everyone knows those cars were extremely fast.
>> Well, we replaced the rear-end on my Cutlass with the rear-end from a 67
Toro.
>>
>> I don't even know what's in that rear-end.  I know that my Cutlass had the
>> standard 2.56 gears.  The difference in performance is like night and day.
>> And the swap was so easy.
>>
>> My car was fun to drive before, but now it's undescribable.

My best time increase came from slapping one of thoes "NO FEAR" stickers on
the front windshield and a "FEAR THIS" sticker on the back glass of the
Vista-Cruiser.  Worth a good second of ET.  Then I picked up an unbelievable
2 seconds by adding the JC whitney "universal fit"  hood scoops, ground
effects, and testa-rosa style door scoops.  And that fake crown air freshner
and personalized door lock guards are great for picking up chicks.  (sorry
for that somewhat derogatory term there ladies, but I was on a roll)

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:19:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine weights

> Kevin, got any weight data.  "Setting the Pace" says that my Delta weighs
> 3561ª, and if we add 200ª for the BB, we have a 3761ª ride.  Any idea on

Hmmmm... to get a better idea your Delta's weight, look at the GVWR and
subtract the maximum permissible cargo (1100 lbs for late model B cars).
3561 lbs sounds like the minimum weight they usually publish in brochures.
This excludes things like A/C and various optional equipment.  My '83
Delta 88 weights a hair under 4000 lbs, and that's without power windows,
locks, and seats, but it has A/C and the Brougham package.

> A 350 SB weighs in around 575 lbs "wet", BB is about 700 lbs.
>
> I think the 500 Cadillac is 750

As I recall, an LT4 crate engine weighs 612 lbs.  The Wiz's
Roadmaster has the iron head LT1, so add 50 lbs to this.  The Cadillac 500
weighs significantly less than BB Chevr*lets, but I can't find any exact
data right now.  The local "Caddy Shack" converts a lot of Ch*v pickups to
Cadillac engines, which offer superior torque and lower fuel consumption.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Thomas Martin <marttj@pcmail1.csg.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:44:03 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª588

> From: senko@reston.ans.net (Andrew A. Senko)
> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:11:38 -0400
> Subject: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As some of you know, I have a 71 Cutlass Supreme convertible.  An old
> friend of my father's who used to do some racing was sharing some of his
> old tricks with me.  I think that some of these tricks have been forgotten.
> Anyway, he told me I could shave a few seconds off my track times, with
> simple bolt-ons!!
>
> I didn't believe it either, but I was willing to try.  My previous best
> time was about a 14.45.  After we made the change to my car, I ran a 11.97!
> I lost 2.5 seconds!  What was the change, you ask?  The secret is in the
> first generation Toronados.  Everyone knows those cars were extremely fast.
> Well, we replaced the rear-end on my Cutlass with the rear-end from a 67
Toro. > > I don't even know what's in that rear-end.  I know that my Cutlass
had the > standard 2.56 gears.  The difference in performance is like night
and day. > And the swap was so easy. > > My car was fun to drive before, but
now it's undescribable. > > I know this is a bold statement, but if you make
this swap, there is just > no comparison in perfomance between a Toro rear-end
and your current > rear-end.  Your times will change dramatically.


If anyone is interested, the same swap is availible to the 73-76 88/98
guys.  Just borrow the special 1:1 rearend from a 72-78 Toro/Eldo and go
for it!  It is a direct bolt in.  I knew I saw something of it when I
was spying on GM in the 70's.

If you are a good eye, the 76-78 Eldo's had availible disc brakes to
slow you down from those insane speeds.......They had water injection
spray to cool the rear disc brake surface......

Tom Martin

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:49:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Bodies

Yes to all of the above except the GTO which was on an "A" body, I'm not
really sure about the Nova but I think that was an "X" body

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 05:52:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Underhood Lights

     Just remember to check for light peeking out from under your hood
     cracks if you ever park on a hill!

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Underhood Lights Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/31/97 7:22 PM


     Those of you who have been here a while might recall the debate a
     while back about why Olds underhood lights (at least ones in the 60s
     and 70s cars) are wired into the parking light circuit. Today while I

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 06:00:02 -0400
Subject: '78 442

     I just saw a '78 442 in the paper.  Sounds like it might be worth
     looking it.  "In good shape and runs excellent".  Cheap too, $800.  I
     was wondering if it was legit though?  Did olds make a 442 in '78?
     The ad says it's a V8, 5 speed.  I know you could get the 260 with a
     5-speed in '78, so I'm assuming that's what it is, but why would olds
     make their 442 model with a dinky 260?

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com


------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Fast reactions

Hi all,

On the way to work today I was challenged by a older F*rd truck.  Since
I was driving my L*nc*ln, the 442 is waiting to be fixed, I thought that
we were equally rated (IOW we both were slow).  The first time we were
neck and neck.  He pulled out first and I caught up and passed him.  The
second time I was ready and when the light turned green I was nearly
a car length in front of him.  A lot can be said about how fast one's
reactions are!  I guess it is true that ETs can be greatly enhanced
by the driver's reaction time.

Later...
Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Frank Gonzalez" <frank@tridentsound.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:27:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips

- ----------
> From: John M. Barnes <CHMPFISH@erols.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips
> Date: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 10:11 AM

Actually I think he forgot to mention that the TORO 455 was still attached
to the rear when he put it in.
Frank

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:17:49 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Bodies


Wouldn't this "X" style designation apply also to Buick Apollo's, Pontiac
Ventura's (& GTO's?), & Chevy Nova's?  They all share the same body (with
the possible exception of the GTO's & Nova's -- I haven't closely compared
them with the Omega, Apollo, or Ventura -- but they look similar).

- -Blaine

          Yes, although that applies only to the 74 GTO, previous year
          Goats were A-bodies.  Note also that the F-85 nameplate
          appeared on the Omega body for a while in the 70s.  Same
          with the Skylark on the Apollo.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@Lilly.COM>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:43:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Bodies

In 1974 the G.T.O. was based on the Nova/Appollo/Ventura/Omega platform.
They were widely dismissed as non-G.T.O.s by owners of early goats.  I
have seen a few with Pontiac 455s transplanted in place of the Pontiac
350s they came with.  They may never be worth the big bucks like their
early bretheren, but they are rare.  There is a drag racer around here
that has a 74 Omega with a real Oldsmobile 455 in it. (Olds content)

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "blaines" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:03:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Bodies

- ----------
> From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 11:17 AM
>           Yes, although that applies only to the 74 GTO, previous year
>           Goats were A-bodies.  Note also that the F-85 nameplate
>           appeared on the Omega body for a while in the 70s.  Same
>           with the Skylark on the Apollo.

Ah-ha!  I knew I wasn't crazy [thanks Joe].  My cousin owns a '74 Omega and
a '74 P*ntiac Ventura, and they are identical (including interior), except
for the front and rear clips, bumpers, and hood.  I'm 99% sure that the '74
B*ick Apollo is the same, since his Ventura has a rear hatch from one.  And
I'm 85% sure that '74 Nova's used this same body.  There is a nice '74 GTO
in town that has the same body style, too... which is the car I was
referring to in the original post.

Sorry for the very minor Olds content...

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Junior627@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:05:17 -0400
Subject: Re: horn fuse

In a message dated 97-03-29 00:22:49 EST, you write:

<< My horn doesn't work in my '77 442 for some reason and i can't figure out
 why.  I think i'm missing a fuse for it.  What fuse conects to it? >>

check the horn relay because i had the same problem and there was no fuse the
problem turned out to be a bad ground on the horns which caused them to blow
out...

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:03:50 -0400
Subject: Re: '78 442


     Tom Lentz queries:

     ...I know you could get the 260 with a 5-speed in '78, so I'm assuming
     that's what it is, but why would olds make their 442 model with a
     dinky 260?

          Uh, perhaps OPEC had something to do with it?

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:10:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> Rod Rickenbach wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Well, since we're spilling our performance secrets, I have one to share:
> >
> > Someone recently posted about an X crossover in the exhaust, which shaves
> > .5 seconds off of the 1/4 mile time.  Another exhaust upgrade will shave
> > another 1/2 second off - using '63 Ford Thunderbird muffler bearings.  I
> > know that alot of you will think I'm crazy for even suggesting putting a
> > Ford part on your Olds, but if you want to go fast, it's the only way to
> > fly!  The Ford muffler bearing is a full 1" larger in diameter, which
> > everyone know means quicker ET's!  You can try bearings from other years,
> > but from my experience, the '63 Tbird one is a direct bolt in and works
> > great!
>
> Do you have a part ª for that?

You can get the genuine FoMoCo brand muffler bearings at your local Ford
dealer.  I like the TRW replacements at about 1/2 the price.  Both work
the same.  (Plus, I'd rather give my money to TRW than Ford any day! :)

You might want to also invest in a left handed 7/16 open end wrench.  The
time it saves installing those bearings is hard to believe...


- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: TBLUMSTE@mailb.harris.com (TBLUMSTE)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:05:27 -0400
Subject: 330 Jetfire mods...

     Hi to all the Rocket Riders out there!

     I am looking for performance modifications specific to the 330 Jetfire
     engine in the '66 and '67 Cutlass.  Any good tricks for the 330 are
     well appreciated.  Is it really worth swapping the points ignition for
     an HEI?

     I also know of a '67 Toro with 65K miles 100% original sitting in a
     garage for sale.  The owner is asking $8500.00 but I am sure she will
     take less.

     Ted Blumstein
     tblumste@harris.com

     '67 Cutlass Conv.

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:36:23 -0400
Subject: Re: '78 442

At 05:00 AM 4/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>     I just saw a '78 442 in the paper.  Sounds like it might be worth
>     looking it.  "In good shape and runs excellent".  Cheap too, $800.  I
>     was wondering if it was legit though?  Did olds make a 442 in '78?
>     The ad says it's a V8, 5 speed.  I know you could get the 260 with a
>     5-speed in '78, so I'm assuming that's what it is, but why would olds
>     make their 442 model with a dinky 260?

Well, at least it was better than the V-6 equipped 442's of the same year!
Yes, they made a 442, on the fastback Cutlass body-style. Yes, it *was*
simply a stripe package (perhaps some handling improvements as well). Yes,
the 5-speed was only available with a 260ci V-8 (was the 307 even in
production then?).

Oh, and yes, a 455 and 4-spd would bolt right in there using the factory
clutch linkage, and nobody else would really be able to tell that it
*wasn't* a 260/5-spd factory combination. :)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:36:19 -0400
Subject: Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts & 442 Headers

At 09:53 AM 4/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>   Some time ago I picked up a '68 455 that was stuffed in a '65 Cutlass.  I
>finally got around to inspecting the bottom end and discovered that the rod
>bolts had 12 point nuts on them.  The block and intake numbers match a
>'68-'69 Toro(I haven't checked the heads yet) and the crank has the large
>"N" for nodular on it.  As I've never seen factory 12 point nuts on rods
>before, I'm wondering if they are aftermarket or was there an option for a
>beefed-up bottom end for Toro's?  Also, has anyone tried putting headers on

Well, the Toro used the best pieces available, but as far as 12-pt nuts on
the rod bolts, the 350 and two 403's I pulled had them from the factory
(ironically, the ARP bolts I replaced them with did not...). I think they
were standard Olds fare.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:57:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fast reactions

Chris Sparks wrote:

On the way to work today I was challenged by a older F*rd truck.  Since
I was driving my L*nc*ln, the 442 is waiting to be fixed, I thought that
we were equally rated (IOW we both were slow).  The first time we were
neck and neck.  He pulled out first and I caught up and passed him.  The
second time I was ready and when the light turned green I was nearly
a car length in front of him.  A lot can be said about how fast one's
reactions are!  I guess it is true that ETs can be greatly enhanced
by the driver's reaction time.

*************
At the track the ET clocks start when the front tires roll out of the
staging beams. That time ADDED to your reaction time is the TOTAL time it
takes to traverse that distance. The reaction time is the amount of time
between when the green light comes on and your front tires have broken the
beams

*************************************************************
John Pajak     "DR. OLDS"
Lexington Park, MD
Pajak_John%PAX1@MR.NAWCAD.NAVY.MIL

65 Delta 88
66 Toronado
69 Cutlass S
70 Cutlass S W31
70 442 W30 convert
72 442 W30 convert
72 Delta 88 convert
+ others

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:23:50 -0400
Subject: Manual tranny questions

I located a 65-66 buick with a manual trans when I called a local yard today
and I was interested in robbing parts to swap into my `67 Cutlass.  I'd like
to find out exaclty what will interchange.  Specifically, I am interested in
the bellhousing and clutch/brake pedal assemblies and linkage.  I was also
wondering if there is any way the flywheel would work.  And whether the
tranny crossmember is different in a manual trans car.

I'd like to get an overdrive trans for the `67.  I've heard that the 5 and
6-speeds from c*maros have a different bellhousing-to-trans bolt pattern
than the old 4-speeds.  Has anyone seen either of the o.d. trannys up close
and know whethere it could possibly be adapted for a BOP bellhousing?  If it
can't I might as well just skip the bellhousing and call trans-dapt when I
get the money.  I'll probably have to do that anyway if I go with the
6-speed since the clutch is a "pull" type.


Thanks for any info.  BTW I'm going to try and get to the yard after classes
tommorw, time permitting and see what the guy has lying around.  Anyone want
me to be on the lookout for a specific part that they seriously need?  The
man has no `60s cutlasses, so that's out, but I'll try and look for what I
can, time permitting of course.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:12:09 -0400
Subject: Re: '78 442

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> Well, at least it was better than the V-6 equipped 442's of the same year!
> Yes, they made a 442, on the fastback Cutlass body-style. Yes, it *was*
> simply a stripe package (perhaps some handling improvements as well). Yes,
> the 5-speed was only available with a 260ci V-8 (was the 307 even in
> production then?).

Egads!  My 1977 C/S Brougham had a 350 in it.  Wasn't a 350 at least
available
in 78?

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:27:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips

At 11:23 AM 4/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Am I missing something here.
>
>
>How do you put a front drive Toro unit into a rear drive Cutlass ????????
>
>
In the early days of Toronados someone put a second drive unit in the trunk.
You could model your Cutlass project after that job, and have sort of a
twin-ie mini-e Cutlass.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:30:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 502 swap into '71 cutlass

At 11:49 AM 4/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 3/31/97 5:27:50 PM, you wrote:
>
><<I just blew up my 350 trying to see how fast my car would go.  I got to
>128>>
>
>That 502 will probably be enough to get you going Stupidsonic.....
>
>
Sounds almost as good as a JATO boost.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:31:01 -0400
Subject: Re: OLDS 510 FOR BUILDUP

> Instead of putting a 502 chevy (yuch, puck!!!) in your Olds build a 510
> Olds based on the 455 block.  It can be done with off the shelf parts for
> the most part and should make tons of torque with a 4.500 stroke.  I am in
> the process of building one now and I think I can get it built for less
> than a 502 crate motor.  If anyone is interested in this project let me
> know and I'll keep you informed.  It sure beats the heck out of


Or, if you insist on having a 500 inch motor (and don't want to
spend major $$$) you could always spring for a Caddy 500.  It's got the
BOP bolt pattern, so all you would have to play with would be the engine
mounts.  Performance parts are fairly limited, but they are out there.
Building one of these motors to be hotter than stock can be fairly cheap,
but if you want to get really wild with them, it gets pretty expensive
quick.  Just an idea...

Scott
1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:34:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Shave 2 seconds off your timeslips

At 01:00 PM 4/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 4/1/97 2:24:46 PM, you wrote:
>
><<Everyone knows those cars were extremely fast.
>Well, we replaced the rear-end on my Cutlass with the rear-end from a 67
>Toro.>>
>
>I heard if you removed third gear from a turbo 400 that the resulting weight
>savings will shave 6-8 seconds of your quarter mile time as well.....
>
>
Justg think of all the weight you could save, and the time you would pick up
if you left all the gears out.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:36:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 in Missoula MT  and other babble...

> I found a '72 cutlass supreme for sale in front of a church on reserve
> (must be the same car)  I was giving a quick look when the owner came out.
> (said he was minister assistant minister somthin' like that) the cutlass
> is light green with a dark green interior Yuck! but is fairly sharp (it
> would be really sharp if it wasnt green)  it has been painted once and it
> is straight but it has some rust (couple holes rest is surface) but
> nothing too serious for any decent bodyman  the care has AC,PS and power
> drum brakes but that is all for luxurys   the car has rocket 350 auto with
> a standard diff

I looked at this car yesterday too.  Like the man said, it's
fairly sharp (the body was stright as an arrow, with only one small dent
in the drivers door), but that color....BLEH!  Still, with a color change,
(red would look soooooo nice on this car) it would make a *really* nice
dirver.  I'd say it's worth the $$, but I'd add in the cost of paint and
an interior if I was serious about it.  But thats me, I'm sure there are
people out there who would keep it that pea-green :)  It'll probibly be
there for a while just because cars with that shade of green are a hard
sell.

Scott
1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:39:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Looking for parts

At 10:08 PM 3/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>James & Joanne Chermack wrote:

>>          I have the SSI wheel, and maybe a X manifold.
>>
>> Jim Chermack
>> 70 Cutlass SXW-32
>> 72 442
>How much for one, either, both, whatever.
>
>-Dan
>

Dan

        I haven't found the manifold yet, but I'll take $40.00 for a wheel.

Thanks,

Jim

------------------------------

From: Thomas Martin <marttj@pcmail1.csg.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:02:32 -0400
Subject: Fake 442?

Did Olds ever make a Post 442?  I saw one (1970 model) at a rinky dink
car dealer (in STL) several years ago and suspected it was a fake, was
it?  Had 442 badges, and the ram air hood (W-??).

If you are not well edumacated on 442's, what is the best way to spot a
fake?

Did all 442's up till 69-76 have 455's?

Thanks
Thomas Martin

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:56:04 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Fast reactions

Chris Sparks notes:

...I guess it is true that ETs can be greatly enhanced by the
driver's reaction time.

          Not at a drag strip.  The ET is measured by photocells at
          the starting line and the finish line.  The clock starts
          when the car's front wheels break the first beam and stops
          when the wheels break the second beam.

          Note that lowest ET _does not_ determine the winner,
          however, it is the car which crosses the finish line first
          (ignoring for the moment redlights and breakouts in handicap
          racing).  In this case, the reaction time of the driver
          _does_ effect the outcome.  Keep in mind that it is the
          combination of reaction time and ET which determines which
          car crosses the finish line first.  This is how a car with a
          slower ET can win a race - the driver had a quicker reaction
          time (aka pulled a holeshot).

          Reaction time is measured from the time the last yellow
          light on the tree comes on until the car's wheels break the
          first photocell beam.  Note that 0.400 seconds is a perfect
          reaction time.  This is due to the fact that there are 0.400
          sec between the yellow and the green, and a shorter reaction
          time (under 0.400) will cause the car to break the photocell
          beam prior to the green - resulting in disqualification (a
          "red-light").

          Good reaction times run in the high 0.400 - low 0.500 second
          range.  A driver who cuts a good light (say, 0.450 reaction
          time) and turns a 14.5 ET will win over the car that turns a
          14.4 ET with an asleep-at-the-switch 0.590 reaction time.
          Note also that reaction time is not only a function of the
          driver's reactions, it is also dependent on the car's
          reactions.  Suspension and driveline wrap-up and tire
          deflection all take up some finite amount of time before the
          car will actually move forward after nailing the throttle.

          Finally, although you didn't ask, the top end MPH is
          relatively unrelated to ET.  A separate set of timing lights
          (photocells) are located 60 ft in front of and 60 ft after
          the finish line.  It is the average speed of the car over
          this 120 ft timing trap which is the published MPH figure.
          If the driver of the winning car is ahead and lets off
          early, he will be coasting through the trap, whereas a
          driver intent on hitting a big MPH number will drive the car
          through the trap.  Neither of these will have a first order
          impact on ET.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:59:00 -0400
Subject: RE: Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts

You guys wrote:

Some time ago I picked up a '68 455 <SNIP>and discovered that the rod
bolts had 12 point nuts on them.  <SNIP> as far as 12-pt nuts on
the rod bolts, the 350 and two 403's I pulled had them from the factory
(ironically, the ARP bolts I replaced them with did not...). I think they
were standard Olds fare.

***************
Every Olds 350 and 455 I have pulled apart had 12 point rod nuts......

John Pajak
Lexington Park, MD

Lotsa cars
Garage soon

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:08:07 -0400
Subject: Re[4]: Bodies

...I'm 99% sure that the '74 B*ick Apollo is the same, since his Ventura has a
 rear hatch from one.  And I'm 85% sure that '74 Nova's used this same
body....

          Blaine,

          You can be 100% sure of both points.  The Nova, Omega,
          Ventura, and Apollo all used the same body shell (as, in
          fact, did the original Caddy Seville - the one with the
          fuel-injected 350 Olds motor - the first time all five GM
          car divisions shared a body shell).  And, as others have
          previously pointed out here, the first letters of Nova,
          Omega, Ventura, and Apollo all spell...VANO!  (as well as
          NOVA, of course)

          An interesting trivia point is that since the original
          Seville was based on the Nova, which, in turn used F-body
          suspension parts, one could build a real sleeper Caddy.  I
          seem to recall that Car and Driver built such a car in the
          70s, using Trans Am WS-6 suspension parts.  I don't recall
          if the car used a built 350 Olds motor or a 500 cu in Caddy.
          Anyone have the article?

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:34:00 -0400
Subject: Conversion

     I've seen kits to convert older GM external regulator cars to internal
regulator. The kit has an adapter harness for the alternator plug and also a
piece which plugs in place of the original regulator. I think J C Whitney
sells these. Nothing against them, but has anyone seen these kits for sale
elsewhere ?????
     Beats cutting up the original harness !!

John Pajak     DR OLDS
Lexington Park, Maryland

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:20:23 -0400
Subject: FYI HEI

Sorry to dredge up this HEI thing again but I thought this additional info
might be of value to some of you.

For those of you who dont have the time or inclination to go through all of
the  trial and error of the HEI recurve there is a place in Illinois called
B&H Speed & Custom. Popular Hot Rodding did an HEI article with them in the
January '97 issue. They provide HEI recurving as a service. You can send
them your dist. along with all the specs on your engine, camshaft, torque
converter, rear gears and driving style (towing, street or strip). They
return your recurved dist. with instructions on where to set base timing.

I assumed they would charge some astronomical figure for their service, I
was expecting their fee would be $200+ but called them just for the heck of
it. They said if they could do the recurve using your old parts (vac
advance, weights and so on) the cost would be around $25-$30 !  If they
have to totally rebuild your unit, install a new vac advance and etc., the
cost would be more like $50-$60. Still alot less than I was expecting.

They accept check or credit card...
B&H Speed & Custom
126 S. Prairie, Dept. PHR
Bethalto, IL 62010
(618) 377-1500

           Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
            Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:24:14 -0400
Subject: Switched from power to manual steering

   Howdeee Folks,
                             I couldn't believe it i just installed a manual
steering box from a 6 cylinder 64 Le Mans into my 67 F85 and everything
bolted right up -- including the pitman arm.  Now i have some surplus power
steering parts -- steering box, tin can style power steering pump, with hoses
and bracketts and i also have a power steering pump and bracketts for a 1970
Olds 455 -- if anybody wants the parts let me know -- id rather give them
away than chuck em -- i only have a driveway and a one car garage so they
won't be hanging around for very long.

   My next project is to get rid of the power brakes -- i checked the part
number differences between power and manual master cylinders and they are the
same, i think all i have to do is remove the vacuum canister, bolt the master
cylinder i have right now to the firewall and change the fulcrum on my brake
pedal and it's done --
  If anybody out there has done this -- i would really like to know if there
is anything else involved in this change over that i might need to know, if
for anything safetys' sake.

                 J2RKT@aol.com


------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:38:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Compressor Deal [was Re: Good Welder]

jones wrote:

> My shop air is plumbed with 1/2" PCV and it works great. Its cheap easy to
> run and will never rust out.
> Walter

Lloyd Culp wrote:

> Walter,
>
> Mine is also plumber with 1/2" PVC.  This makes for high pressure, but
> restricts the flow too much.  I would recommend 5/8" & will change mine
> later this year.  Another recommendation is that the PVC be mounted
> securely w/clamps as it will fatique under vibration.  Don't forget a
> water trap & consider several outlets.
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama


I'll be sure never to visit your workshops if I'm in the area. PVC/PCV,
whatever plastic you use is just a time bomb waiting to go off. You
might want to secure it from vibration, but no matter how much you
secure it, it it will always be subjected to vibration and thus will
fatigue...CAAABOOUUIII....

If steel is too difficult to deal with and it rusts, then use copper,
its the best thing. You're worried about cost? How much do you need to
run? The slight extra cost is very little to pay for safety. I use 5/8"
copper throughtout, and when I need to run a long line, say to my
basement, I just use rubber compressor line. It comes in all lengths.
Very flexible, inexpensive and much better suited for the job. The olds
content is that my compressor (built it myself) is used to work on my
'72 442 and both are in the garage.

Fernando
'72 442

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:39:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Fake 442?

   My high school car was a 1967 442 post coupe with a 4 spd transmission.
It was midnight metalflake blue with a black vynle top.  Maaannnn!!!! what a
car.
  It was kind of a wierd set up though -- no air conditioning or power brakes
but it did have power steering.  Never could figure that one out.

                                               J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Jim & Tina R." <rabid@cybrzn.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:45:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Looking for SSI wheels

Hi John,

I have some extra SSI rims to part with. LMK if he is looking for a set =
of 4 or 5. I have a set of 4 rims (complete and in pretty good shape) or =
will soon have a complete set of 5 with new repro Firestone Wide-Ovals =
mounted on them. You can e-mail me direct at rabid@cybrzn.com

Jim Rabideau

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:54:35 -0400
Subject: RE: Re:455 Toro Rod Bolts

>Every Olds 350 and 455 I have pulled apart had 12 point rod nuts......
>
>John Pajak
>Lexington Park, MD
>
    John,

  Thanks for the info.  Every Ford and Pontiac I've pulled apart had 6 point
nuts including  a Ram Air III with 4 bolt mains, so I was a little surprised
to see them.  This was my first Olds, be gentle.




  Paul Brillhart

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:13 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '78 442

     . . . except by following the trail of tranny parts you left behind as
     that 455 twists that 5-speed into pretzels.

     Another question:  What's a 260 equipped '78 442 worth?  I think for
     $800 it might make a nice backup car.

     Tom.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: '78 442 Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    4/1/97 12:02 PM

     Oh, and yes, a 455 and 4-spd would bolt right in there using the
     factory clutch linkage, and nobody else would really be able to tell
     that it *wasn't* a 260/5-spd factory combination. :)

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:21:16 -0400
Subject: Well, one thing do to a Toro

All this talk of Toro's and rear-wheel drive's reminds me of a plan my
uncle always talks about but will never do:
imagine a stock Toro frame/powertrain, with a complete RWD powertrain
replacing the backseat/trunk, possibly an extended frame.  I know he'll
never do this, but the idea doesn't sound that crazy or that hard.  Has
anyone else ever done this, or even thought about this?  (I always wanted
to 'jimmy up' a 4wd olds by adding a rearend and makeshift transfer
system to a Toro)


Oh, the fun you could have with a welder, some ducktape, and an infinite
supply of money and oldsmobiles!



EA~

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:30:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 85 Toronado Heater

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Scott Porter wrote:

> I have an 85 Toronado. The body is in great shape, but with 168K miles
> it's getting a bit tired, and some of the systems are going south.
> The one that's really bugging me is the heater. It is on constantly. The
> vaccuum is lost to the valve on the engine block that controls the flow of
> water to the heater core. The quick and dirty solution is to apply vaccum
> to the valve, disableing it in the summer.
>
Unless I am wrong (and I could be, I've never owned an '85), this valve
should not have to be working to disable the heater in the summer.  Is
their not a mixer door ran by a thermostat that controls air flow
through/around the heater core?  If this is the case for '85 still, that
valve should not be neccessary for a normal heater/cooling system.  This
would point to the problem being in the thermostat/mechanism which
controls that mixer door.  Of course that doesn't fix nothing, but should
allow you to find the problem.  I had a friend who had a 1/2 ton with
similiar problem, and the problem was something (OK, probably a bottle
cap) had managed to prop the door on heat-mode.

Hope it helps!


EA~

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:31:23 -0400
Subject: Remove Power Accys?

J2RK,
Why are you removing power accessories? Is this a racing vehicle? If not
won't that make it less pleasant to drive?

Confused
cf

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:49:00 -0400
Subject: Re: More on Knuckle Sandwiches

Greg P. wrote in asking the knuckles to use for 12" disc brakes.  I used
a set from a late 80's Olds wagon.  You can tell in a second if the car
has the right knuckles by looking at the wheel studs.  1/2" studs on a 5
x 5" bolt circle indicate a 12" rotor.  I will look at my knuckles the
first chance I get and get a part number off of them.

Another person wrote in about rear disc brakes on a budget.  I
researched the availablity of the late 70's/early 80's Trans Am rear
disc set-ups.  Most of the parts were available but the cost from GM was
more than the $625 that the Wilwood kit costs from Summit.  At least the
Wilwood kit gives you 12 3/16" rotors and aluminum 4-piston calipers  I
bought this kit and am in the final stages of installation.  VERY nice
quality.  I was surprised at the vast quantity of disclaimers all over
every component.  Must be Wilwood got sued.  Wilwood specifically states
(about 300 times) that the kit is for racing use only, and yet Summit
advertises it as "Race car stopping power for the street......".  Go
figure.

Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro rod bolt nuts

My stock 1970 442 455 cid engine had the 12-point rod bolt nuts.  I
don't think they are a special heavy duty part.

Scott Mullen

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:06:33 -0400
Subject: '69 4-4-2 air cleaner color

        Someone here mentioned a match for the red that's on the '69 4-4-2
air cleaner. They said it was a Volwswagon red.  It may have been Greg but
I'm not sure.  Anyway I checked the VW color charts and I found a couple of
reds.  I need to know which red it was that was referred to.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:07:13 -0400
Subject: Well, one OTHER thing do to a Toro

          Well, this may be sacrilege, but...

          (Note to Mike F:  Please ask the 66 to cover her ears)

          The first generation Toros and the Buick Riviera were both
          E-body cars, based on the same basic body shell.  One
          theoretically should be able to graft the floor pan and
          subframe from a Riv onto the body shell of a Toro and build
          a RWD Toro!  I'd be willing to bet that the stock rear
          suspension attach points for the Toro will accept the
          Riviera springs and rear axle.  I'd also bet that the Riv
          front subframe will bolt to the Toro attach points.  The
          major difference may just be the transmission and driveshaft
          hump.  The subframes and inner structure on the two cars
          look similar in the (admittedly cartoonish) drawings in the
          Fisher Body Manual.  All April foolishness aside, I bet
          someone could do this.  Why one would want to do this is
          another question, but I'll bet it is possible.

          Joe (an admitted RWD snob) Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:22:20 -0400
Subject: Engine weights

OL>> Kevin, got any weight data.  "Setting the Pace" says that my Delta weighs
OL>> 3561ª, and if we add 200ª for the BB, we have a 3761ª ride.  Any idea on
OL>> what my 350 Ch*vy weighs.



OL>A 350 SB weighs in around 575 lbs "wet", BB is about 700 lbs.

OL>I think the 500 Cadillac is 750

OL>The Pontiac 455 is about 600 lbs.

I wieghed a 425 with everything on the motor (flywheel,exhoust
manifolds,cross over pipe,starter,water pump,alternater,carb,5 quarts
oil,distributer,etc.) at work and it wieghed 660 lbs.

Daren  '65 Dynamic "88"

------------------------------

From: chray@Logical.Net
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:31:51 -0400
Subject: '56 Olds seatbelts

I'm going to be putting seatbelts in my 56 rocket 88.  Can I put shoulder
belts in this car?  Has anyone done this before?  Does anyone have any
insight or suggestions as to what are the safest seatbelts to install and
where I can find them?

Ray Rettig
www.logical.net/users/cttnhill/

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:33:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Remove Power Accys?

   To answer your question,
                                         Yes the car is going into racing
service, but it will also be a street driver.  I have already suffered the
consequences of snapping a bolt on my Olds power steering system in the past
- --  the bolt broke, the power steering pump bent the other bracketts and hit
the fan wich broke the water pump shaft wich then took out my radiator -- it
was not a fun night, except to talk about. Besides i don't really liker power
steering.  Having power brakes limits me to only a certain number of
camshafts with a lobe center of about 110 degrees or more in order for the
engine to develop enough vacuum to operate the power system reliably -- so
 buh bye to the power booster -- i prefer the feel of manual brakes over
manual brakes anyway.

   To any Olds purists or restoration buffs -- don't worry the car was a $150
basket case when i first got it and most of the detail items were damaged or
missing when i got the car and it's still got the yucky late 70's baby blue
custom terry towel interior in it -- im just glad the dash didn't get covered
with blue nylon fur.

I think a cool tow car for this would be a fully restored 69 or 70  98
painted to match the 67 -- all the power accessories would work on that one.

                                J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:37:20 -0400
Subject: RE: 82 Cutlass/455 - was Re: Misc comments and fee

OL>And may I get smited for this, It is still my opinion:
OL>In My opinion, a 455 in such a light car as an '82 cutlass in stock
OL>revving form, and 2.4 gears is a remarkably inneficient system.  I
OL>believe that this car would not be too fast, but assuming the car would
OL>hold togethor, it would probably tow an entire lineup of m***tangs, and a
OL>small village, just as fast.  I believe that, without excessive RPM,
OL>big-block's with lots of torque just won't move those cars.  My friend
OL>did this, resulting in an all-show-no-go machine.  He later dropped to a
OL>'74 350 olds, ending up with more speed (I convinced him to 'settle' for
OL>this option).  As for a '75 cutlass though, I hope to use some of my
OL>motors torque.

OL>Note, all who disagree may smite me privately or publicly, as these are
OL>the things I believe.

OL>On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 Daren@qconline.com wrote:

OL>>
OL>> OL>Olds content -> I'm not a huge performance freak, but when I get my
'75 OL>> OL>455 (stock) into my '75 cutlass, I'm sure I'll want to test it
out, can OL>> OL>anyone tell me what I might do against a early '80's 5 leeter
m***ang OL>> OL>(I'm not concerned overly either way, but enquiring minds DO
want to kn OL>> OL>> I had a '76 455 with a stock replacement melling cam &
headers in a '82 OL>> cutlass with lousy 2.4? gears it ran 15.7 - 15.9 e.t. in
1/4 mile. You OL>> might get lucky against a early '80's r*stang with an
automatic. OL>> OL>> Daren  '65 Dynamic "88" OL>> OL>> OL>>

It wasn't a very good set up but I was 19 and it was the first time I
ever did any mods to a car.

I don't understand why you need excessive rpm, and big blocks with lots
of turque wont move these cars?

Turque is what moves cars.Turque is what makes horsepower, becouse
horsepower is dependant of torque and rpm.

Daren   '65 Dynamic "88"

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:56:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: '78 442

At 09:07 AM 4/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>     . . . except by following the trail of tranny parts you left behind as
>     that 455 twists that 5-speed into pretzels.

No, no, no, just use the 5-speed shifter KNOB; you need an M-21 4-spd tranny
for this swap to work well (see my original response below). Of course, you
need to keep the 260ci stickers, perhaps even affix one to the air-cleaner
(which ought to be a single-snorkel unit, just for effect).

>     Another question:  What's a 260 equipped '78 442 worth?  I think for
>     $800 it might make a nice backup car.

If the body is not in bad shape, that wouldn't be a bad price; I'd say it's
worth that out of the curiosity factor alone!

>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>
>     Oh, and yes, a 455 and 4-spd would bolt right in there using the
>     factory clutch linkage, and nobody else would really be able to tell
>     that it *wasn't* a 260/5-spd factory combination. :)

_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: ar713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zuccaro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:59:59 -0400
Subject: Ohio Swap Meets...[Non Olds]

April 12-13, 1997  Norwalk Raceway Park, Norwalk, OH
                    [Route 18, 5 mi. east of Norwalk]
                    Test & tune each day on Summit Side
            Swap Meet on Bud Side
                    $5 to watch or shop, Kids under 6 free
                    $5 more to test & tune
                    Vendor swap space $35
                    Vendor info - 330 447-8506
                    Even info - 419 668-5555

April 25, 26, 27    Canfield Fairgrounds, Canfield, OH
                     [intersection of route 11 and route 224]
                     Admission $4, under 12 free
                     Vendor spaces $40
                     Info 330-477-8506 or 330 455-7565

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 20:09:48 -0400
Subject: re:85 heater problem

>
 <asst'd snips>
>
>From: Scott Porter <n1sp@adam.cheshire.net>
>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:40:32 -0400
>Subject: 85 Toronado Heater
>Hello,
>I have an 85 Toronado. The body is in great shape, but with 168K miles
>But I have yet to see any of my freinds solve the problem right. Most just
>shut the system down in the summer and let it run in the winter....
>As this is a very common problem with GM's automatic heaters. Has anyone
>got a cheap way for me to troubleshoot and fix this? (I'm sure the dealers
>would love to charge me $50 an hour plus $300 in parts to fix it!)
>Thanks for the help!
>Scott Porter in snowy NH!

My '84 307-Y Cutlass had the "feature" of a faucet valve in-line
with the heater hose--off in the summer, on in the
winter.
However, the fix was this:  I went to the Olds. dealer
and bought a new heater control valve; I also made sure
I had good vacuum to the valve.  Presto. No more problems.
The valve cost less than $20.00 (in 1992).

TRICK: to remove old stuck-in-intake valve: cut off top of
valve with a hacksaw, and simply use a socket to remove.
You WILL save time and effort this way.

It took about two hours start 'till finish.  I did lose some
coolant, but not much.

RELATED BONUS TRICK:  when replacing your radiator, promptly remove the
crummy valve supplied with your new radiator, and replace
with a "little brass valve" -- rather a pain to obtain, BUT well-worth
it when you have to drain off or change the coolant.
The "little brass valve" will let you easily drain into a pan
or attach a piece of sm. diameter rubber hose to control drainage.
I would describe the valve a little better, but I don't remember!
Hope this was helpful.

Bruce D. Brumm
'86 Olds. Cutlass Salon 307-Y, T-Tops, bucket seats, console, guage package,
etc. '84 Olds. Cutlass Supreme 307-Y, rusty. '75 Olds. Cutlass Supreme 350,
gone and NEVER forgotten!

------------------------------

From: GBodyTek2@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 20:16:13 -0400
Subject: Another Emissions Question...

Greetings all,
      I've been on the GN/T-type list for a few years now, and found this one
after having my 86 Cutlass for 4 years now, (I was the original owner, but
left if with my dad when I went overseas for a few years).  I have 155k miles
and the intake manifold gasket corroded through on the forward drivers side
water jacket. I replaced the gasket, and found that most of my vaccuum tubing
was dry rotting!  Well, I replaced all of the tubing, and now (you guessed
it), she runs like s*&t!
      Can someone e-mail me a picture or schematic of the sensors and
vaccuum/emissions tubing routes?  I took the intake in for cleaning, and I
think the shop may have crossed two of the sensors...
     How is it running like poo-poo?  Well, she either idles at 3k rpm or 30
rpm, but nowhere inbetween.  When I took my wife to work the other day, I was
doing 70 in OD, and my foot wasn't on the pedal.  I backed the idle screw all
the way out, so I know it's a vacuum problem, or maybe the controller.
 Ideas, suggestions?  Also, she feels like she's going to shake herself loose
when I come to a stop light, i.e. Scotty "She can't take much more of this!"
 All the plug wires and wiring to the distributor are connected, she just
runs RUUUFFFFFFF.
     Also, does anyone know where I can get a 1" spacer for my carb? It's a
Q-jet, and would need a 4 hole.


      Thanks in advance!!    Jeff Craig   /  GBodyTek2@aol.com
                                      Everett, WA
                                      <A HREF="GBT2">http://members.aol.com/GB
odyTek2</A>

------------------------------

From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 20:33:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro

in 1967 Hurst did a "funny car" using a '67 4-4-2, with a toro set up in
front and rear. 2 engines/transaxles and 4 wheel drive . It got a lot of
attention as a exhibition car on drag strips that year. I would like to
put a 455 Toro set up in the rear a late model Trofeo', and  explore
those possibilities.

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:42:00 -0400
Subject: 502 swap into '71 cutlass

OL>To me it sounds like the Olds motor is not the problem it's the person
OL>behind the steering wheel.

Greg I didn't mean this as an insult towards you just that the Olds
motor probably isn't the problem.

Daren    '65 Dynamic "88"

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:03:32 -0400
Subject: Re: More on the Knuckle Sandwich

OL>I am interested in how much of this will pertain to my '65 Olds 98...

OL>I am looking to rebuild the front suspension. Most people talk about 442,
OL>Cutlass, etc. but no one knows much about the 98's.


OL>Any other ideas???


OL>*************************************************************************
OL>* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
OL>*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
OL>* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
OL>*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
OL>*************************************************************************

Try p.s.t  p.o. box 396    montville, nj    07045
1-800-247-2288
I got front end rebuild for my '65 dynamic there. If you can't find a
center link let my know I know somebody that has a couple rebuilt units.

Daren     '65 Dynamic "88"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:37:41 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 4-4-2 air cleaner color

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Glenn Connors wrote:
>         Someone here mentioned a match for the red that's on the '69 4-4-2
> air cleaner. They said it was a Volwswagon red.  It may have been Greg but
> I'm not sure.  Anyway I checked the VW color charts and I found a couple of
> reds.  I need to know which red it was that was referred to.
>

VW had a color around 1985 called "Mars Red", which is what I found to be
a very good match.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:34:06 -0400
Subject: Power top

The power top on my 442 just barely makes it down, but won't even move
going up.  Can anyone tell me weather the pump or the pistons need to be
replaced, and is there a way to check these parts?

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:50:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro

doug thompson wrote:
>
> in 1967 Hurst did a "funny car" using a '67 4-4-2, with a toro set up in
> front and rear. 2 engines/transaxles and 4 wheel drive . It got a lot of
> attention as a exhibition car on drag strips that year. I would like to
> put a 455 Toro set up in the rear a late model Trofeo', and  explore
> those possibilities.

Affectionately known as the "Hurst Hairy Olds".  If you want to check
out what it looked like, go to: http://www.442.com/hairyoldsmodel.html
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:05:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Power top

On Wed, 2 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> The power top on my 442 just barely makes it down, but won't even move
> going up.  Can anyone tell me weather the pump or the pistons need to be
> replaced, and is there a way to check these parts?

The following is condensed from the GM body service manual. It doesn't
look like fun... :(

They suggest checking first for binding in the top assembly. You do this
by disconnecting the top mechanism from the hydraulic cylinders and
manually raising and lowering the top to check. This doesn't sound like
your problem though, so...

The next step is to check that the fluid in the pump reservoir. It should
be within 1/4" of the bottom of the filler hole.

Assuming that's OK, and that the pump functions from an electrical
standpoint (which I assume yours does), the next step is to check the
cylinders. To do this they say you need to remove the rear seat and side
panels. Operate the top and observe the operation of the cylinders. If
the movement is sluggish or uncoordinated, check the hoses from the pump
to cylinders for kinks. If one cylinder moves more slowly than the other,
they say the cylinder is defective and should be replaced. If *both* move
slowly, they say you need to check the pressure output from the pump
(although I suppose its possible both could be defective).

Here's where it really gets nasty. To check the pump you need a pressure
guage (or more likely, a hydraulics shop). You remove the pump and test
it on a bench. Plug one port and install the guage to the other. Pressure
specs are between 340 and 380 psi (this is for a '64 but I presume other
years would be the same). Then you check the other port. As long as both
are within the range specified its OK (they don't need to be exactly the
same). If they're out of spec, your pump needs repair or replacement.

Hope this helps...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bill Gochenour <billg@stjohns.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:24:46 -0400
Subject: Quantity of Oldsmobiles found !

If anyone out there is interested in seeing some restorable Oldsmobiles
for sale, I put the URL location on my web site. It contains six
pictures and information. The pictures are large high resolution images.
You'll like them.

Let me know !

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|

1997 Master Craft ProStar 190 Competition Ski boat
                              (w/LT-1 Vette Motor)

     Visit http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 3/31/97)

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:28:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Well, one thing do to a Toro: Hurst Hairy Olds

   I don't know if anybody knows but -- Monogram is now making or has been
making or remaking the model of the Hurst Hairy Olds -- how do i know???
 Because i am looking at the box right now sitting on my desk.  For those of
you who might not know -- the Hurst Hairy Olds was considered an exhibition
funny car at the time it was built and it was a 1967 Olds Cutlass with dual
blown and injected 425 cid engines connected to toronado transmissions front
and rear.
    There was also a 66 or 67 Toronado that was done up the same way as the
Hurst Olds  -- in '93 local rumor up in Salt Lake City had it that this
particular car was sitting, nearly complete, in a barn that was collapsing
all around it.  I never got to go and see it.
     Last bit of something interesting while i was up in Salt Lake City -- i
met this old guy at one of the rod runs who was pretty cool and was showing
me some pictures of a 53 Chevy Delivery that he built in the late 60's --  it
was done up in the old FX style with a tubular front suspension -- the
coolest part was that at the time he had a 6-71 supercharged GMC 12port 6 for
motivation -- Anyway to get to the best part of the story, he invited me to
go over to his house and see this same 53 Chevy Delivery and lo and behold
when i saw the Delivery he opened the back of it and guess what was mounted
in the rear???  A blown and injected Olds 425 on a Toro tranny!!!!!
 Apparently the engine was a left over Fueler unit from the 60's, he picked
up the engine in about 73 and didn't have anywhere to put it so he got
creative with the Delivery.

              True Story  J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª589
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