
oldsmobile-digest      Monday, October 25 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5071



Re: M-22, or no?
RE: Be paranoid!
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
re:  Re: 1970 C/S Ragtop Wiper to Firewall Question
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
425 blows oil follow up
Man seeks affordable BB Dual xst Mans
RE: Steering Box Rebuild
cheaper MSD source
RE: M-22, or no?
Olds Sighting
RE: Man seeks affordable BB Dual xst Mans
Re: 425 blows oil follow up
RE: Be paranoid!
The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier
Muncie Gear Angles
307 balancer
Re: The M-22 DETAILS
Pistons change size?
Re: Pistons change size?
Re: The M-22 DETAILS
Re: Muncie Gear Angles
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 425 blows oil follow up
Re: Pistons change size?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:46:30 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: M-22, or no?

- -------------------------------1098715590
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=20




69-72 years only will have the letter "C" at the end of the serial  number
=20
A =3D M-20
B =3D M-21
C =3D M-22
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:41:30 AM Central Daylight Time, =20
TJPROD@aol.com writes:

=20

Let me correct my spelling
M-22 has straighter cut gears, it has 20 degree as opposed to 45  degree=20
angle of cut on gears
=20
=20
=20
=20
In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:01:01 AM Central Daylight Time, =20
rocketscience442@hotmail.com writes:

John,
First off I'm getting to  the email reply late.....But I am getting
my '70 C/S's M-22 rebuilt by  the guy who did the posi carrier and 3.73 ring
gear in my daily  driver.  I'll let you know what the costs were all done &
said  with.  But he quoted me $200-$250 in labor and that was to  replace
'The Works'.  The only difference in cost was the amount of  parts mine
requires.
1 rebuild kit  (Synchros only) W/Seals, Vs. another with more parts.

I'll let you  know real soon, as I just dropped with the guy Friday and
he'll be  tearing it apart this weekend, so I should have it back in 2 weeks
or  so.

My M-22 is also a Driver's side/left speedometer cable W/2 Drain  Plugs.

Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme  Ragtop
Austin, TX
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Interesting....
How do you  know it's an M-22?
Not to doubt you, it's just that I have heard and  heard and heard but never=
=20
SEEN an M-22.
Beginning to sound like the  SMW 403 block here. Except that some books=20
actually show pics of the  M-22.

Anyhow, how did you ascertain that your trans is "M-22" and not  say M-21 fo=
r=20
SURE?
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W.  Miller Rd.
Lansing MI  48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends  or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm  MI time most  days

_________________________________________________________________
Is  your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=AE =20
Security.  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963










- -------------------------------1098715590
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1">
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<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>69-72 years only will have the letter "C" at the end of the serial=20
number</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A =3D M-20</DIV>
<DIV>B =3D M-21</DIV>
<DIV>C =3D M-22</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:41:30 AM Central Daylight Time,=20
TJPROD@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Let me correct my spelling</DIV>
  <DIV>M-22 has <U>straighter</U> cut gears, it has 20 degree as opposed to=20=
45=20
  degree angle of cut on gears</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:01:01 AM Central Daylight Time,=20
  rocketscience442@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"=
><FONT=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
    size=3D2>John,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; First off I'm gettin=
g to=20
    the email reply late.....But I am getting<BR>my '70 C/S's M-22 rebuilt b=
y=20
    the guy who did the posi carrier and 3.73 ring<BR>gear in my daily=20
    driver.&nbsp; I'll let you know what the costs were all done &amp;<BR>sa=
id=20
    with.&nbsp; But he quoted me $200-$250 in labor and that was to=20
    replace<BR>'The Works'.&nbsp; The only difference in cost was the amount=
 of=20
    parts mine<BR>requires.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 rebuild k=
it=20
    (Synchros only) W/Seals, Vs. another with more parts.<BR><BR>I'll let yo=
u=20
    know real soon, as I just dropped with the guy Friday and<BR>he'll be=20
    tearing it apart this weekend, so I should have it back in 2 weeks<BR>or=
=20
    so.<BR><BR>My M-22 is also a Driver's side/left speedometer cable W/2 Dr=
ain=20
    Plugs.<BR><BR>Steve Reed<BR>'68 Cutlass<BR>'70 Cutlass Supreme=20
    Ragtop<BR>Austin, TX<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D<BR>Interesting....<BR>How do you=20
    know it's an M-22?<BR>Not to doubt you, it's just that I have heard and=20
    heard and heard but never <BR>SEEN an M-22.<BR>Beginning to sound like t=
he=20
    SMW 403 block here. Except that some books <BR>actually show pics of the=
=20
    M-22.<BR><BR>Anyhow, how did you ascertain that your trans is "M-22" and=
 not=20
    say M-21 for <BR>SURE?<BR>-----------------------<BR>Chris Witt<BR>1303=20=
W.=20
    Miller Rd.<BR>Lansing MI=20
    48911<BR><BR>RocketScience442@hotmail.com<BR><BR>Cell 517-449-0432 weeke=
nds=20
    or short weekday calls or leave message.<BR>Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11=
pm=20
    MI time most=20
    days<BR><BR>____________________________________________________________=
_____<BR>Is=20
    your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=AE=20
    <BR>Security.=20
    http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963<BR><BR></FO=
NT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1098715590--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:00:41 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Be paranoid!

>>I've always been pretty careful about proper safety
>>when working under the car, but I tell you now that
>>I will be completely paranoid about it. I know that
>>entropy and Finagle are out to get me!
>>
>>Be careful out there, guys!

Glad to hear you weren't badly hurt. Every little precaution you take can 
pay off, especially if one backup fails but you have a secondary...

My closest call with disaster under a rolling car was with a little '71 
Austin America I had many years ago. The starter solenoid on that car came 
with a little red button on it that allowed you to bump the engine over as 
needed, if you were working on ignition timing or whatever. This was a 
physical plunger button that shoved the solenoid contacts together, not an 
electrical button, a fact which would be significant in a moment.

So the car was nosed into a friend's garage, at the back of which are two 
workbenches against the back wall, with a gap down the middle between them. 
That gap would also be significant in a moment.

I'm under the hood doing some sort of tuneup work, and I pressed the button. 
I had, of course, left the car in gear.  :-(  Either the massive current 
flow through the starter or a just-plain-sticky plunger served to keep the 
solenoid engaged, and the car immediately lunged forward and knocked me off 
my feet. I grabbed the grille with both hands as the car dragged me forwards 
on my butt about two feet, stopping only when it rammed the workbenches at 
the end of the garage. I was left sitting in the gap between them. I have 
never forgotten the value of wheel chocks after that.

>>On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Oh, great, now whenever you stop posting, we're going to have to send 
somebody round to check on you.  :-)

>When do the Darwin awards get released? Suspect I might know
>a few future nominees.

http://www.darwinawards.com

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:53:56 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At Monday, 25 October 2004, you wrote:
>They won't have one specifically for the Olds, but if you can 
>dig up the specs of the kits they have, you're looking for an installation-
tool that has a 3/4"-NF thread adapter.

The NAPA site positively sucks: it gives you 50,000 Balkamp tool 
PNs and doesn't even bother to tell you what the hell they fit, or 
do.

>Or you can make your own from a section of 3/4"-NF all-thread. 
>Not on hand at Home Depot, but a better fastener place should 
>be able to get it for you.

That reminded me: there was a Tower Fasteners outlet somewhere locally.
I just went hunting where I *thought* it was but no dice  ;o((( 
According to their website, the Connecticut outlet is now somewhere 
else than local  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

>If you were local to me here in Providence, I'd let you borrow 
>mine or give you a chunk of all-thread to make your own (I 
>bought a couple feet of it, but you only need a section about 
>8" long).

Thanks, Bob! Along with the chunk, I'd need a nut. It'd sure be nice 
to go deluxe, complete with a Torrington needle bearing and cupla 
washers on each side.

On another subject: I slipped the new crank gear over the snout last 
night, with the keyway. Hadda rotate the gear a cupla-three times 
without the keyway to get the burrs in the keyway worn down but now 
it slips back and forth nicely. All the way up to the #1 main bearing 
cap  ;o\ What's sposed to keep it spaced back from that cap so it 
doesn't wear into it?????  The '80s CSMs don't even seem to give 
a spec on how far from the cap it should be located.

Thanks,
SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:03:02 -0500
From: "Stephen Reed" <stephenreed@austin.rr.com>
Subject: re:  Re: 1970 C/S Ragtop Wiper to Firewall Question

Milton,

>Steve,

>> QUESTION>>  There is a large DIA copper ground TAB/STRAP going from the
>> motor down to one of the anchor points.  Should I be putting an internal
>or
>> external toothed washer on this one bolt to make use of the wiper's
ground
>> strap?
>> I don't recall how this went together.


>I looked on the '65 Vista Cruiser that has a dual speed wiper and a washer
>on top the wiper motor. The ground strap "appears" to be under the top half
>of that grommet. I also looked in the '65 shop manual. I'm guessing the
>center metal portion of the grommet makes contact with the ground strap,
the
>head of the bolt makes contact with the center metal portion, and the bolt
>threads make contact with the body. There is no lock washer of any kind
>against the strap. Is this the same as your '70?

>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com

This sounds exactly like my setup.  It just didn't make common sense to me
for that strap to be insulated by the rubber bushing.

Yes, the head of the HEX W/SEMS fastener does make contact with the steel
center of the washer.

I was digging thru my assembly manual last night but didn't see anything
with that much detail.

Thanks for the Info,

Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:33:29 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

> we figure one more pass on the strip  / street she may have siezed the cam 
> :O,,,sure glad buddy convinced me to stop when we did....rule,listen too 
> yer friends.
> Although any damage is not fun$ i am happy to see most other parts are 
> fine.

I hope mine don't look like that but they are making a kind of "whirring" 
noise that sounds like gears running without lube. I didn't replace them 
when I freshened up my 425 but I sure wish I had. With a stethescope (sp?) I 
can hear a slight knock at the ledge over the water pump.

I'm going to  tear it down and inspect/replace this winter. The question is; 
how do you get cam bearings out and in? I've never done this before and I 
envision a bushing tool the right size on a long extension/handle.

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:51:21 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At 10:53 AM 10/25/2004, you wrote:
>That reminded me: there was a Tower Fasteners outlet somewhere locally.
>I just went hunting where I *thought* it was but no dice  ;o(((
>According to their website, the Connecticut outlet is now somewhere
>else than local  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

Oh, wait; you're in CT???

I've got those lengths of 3/4" fine-thread all-thread down at my parent's 
place in Stratford. You can either wait until I'm down visiting them for 
Thanksgiving, or I can give my pop the heads-up and have him get a length 
of that all-thread out from the basement so you could pick it up from him. 
Then all you'd need is the nut (a lot easier to find than all-thread) and a 
couple washers.

Let me know if you want to do that; I'm not going to be using that 
all-thread for anything else soon (or ever, I bet).


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:44:43 +0000
From: Oldscarguy@comcast.net
Subject: 425 blows oil follow up

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7856_1098722683_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Milton,

The car has been driven back and forth on the same TX to KS route twice with no problems since the engine rebuild.  It still runs perfectly smooth and the same performance as before it started pumping oil out.  The car has the breather on the passenger valve cover and a breather on the filler tube.  I will look for the deflection baffle this afternoon.

Thanks,
Tim Bender
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7856_1098722683_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html><body>
<DIV>Milton,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The car has been driven back and forth on the same TX to KS route twice with no problems since the engine rebuild.&nbsp; It still runs perfectly smooth and the same performance as before it started pumping oil out.&nbsp; The car has the breather on the passenger valve cover and a breather on the filler tube.&nbsp; I will look for the deflection baffle this afternoon.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Tim Bender</DIV></body></html>

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7856_1098722683_0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:43:17 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Man seeks affordable BB Dual xst Mans

Anyone got some not so fresh W-X-Y-Z's they can help out this guy?

I have only pretty bad or too good to sell at this time.

Contact HIM directly please:
>From: "harv lake" <halnhiwater@military.com>



>From: "harv lake" <halnhiwater@military.com>
>To: rocketscience442@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: Notchy plate for -3- spd AT console shifter- and Xmans
>Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:38:50 -0400
>
>Chris if you get those 442 manifolds I will buy them from you, they
>want 399 dollars at parts place for new ones! I cant addford that,
>but will buy anyhting you have that will fit my car for the toro
>engine. It doesnt have to be in great shape, just ok shape I guess
>and as long as it works! I will do it later when I have more funds/
>thansk. But I need manifolds help please!:)
>-harv

- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Military.com: your address for everything military http://www.military.com
>Free email. Personnel Locator. Thousands of homepages for units, ships, 
>squadrons, and more.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:46:12 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: Steering Box Rebuild

See Below...
 
> Paul,
> 	I've been away from the PC and basically my cars this 
> summer.  What was 
> the vendor for the P/S rebuild?  I didn't see it searching 
> thru my Real 
> time olds posts.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Steve


Update on the Steering Box...

Sent it out UPS Ground last Monday, got the call back that it was done on
Thursday.  Ended up that they had a '69 box on the shelf with the ratio
already done, I just paid for the firm feel conversion ($125)!

This Monday the FedEx guy dropped off a freshly sandblasted steering box
including the rubber coupler (sent mine without it).

It will probably be a couple of months before I get to actually try it on
the car, but if service is any indication, it should perform very well.

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
69 Cutlass S Convertible
[H/O Reproduction]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Bejma [mailto:tomcb@prplastics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:17 AM
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: steering gear box rebuilds
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with Tom at Stear and Gear.  Nice guy. 
>  Discount
> honored.  My box will be going out this week.  Definitely a 
> MUST to go with
> my Global West Upper/Lower Tubular Control Arm/Coil-Over set up.
> 
> In case anyone needs the shipping information it's:
> 
> Steer and Gear
> 1000 Barnett Rd.
> Columbus, OH  43227
> 
> Send UPS/FedEx and include:  Name, address, phone, year, 
> model, quoted price
> (just in case Tom doesn't open it).
> 
> GREAT price for my '69 box.  Even a local company wanted $200 
> for the same
> job.  Thanks Joe for helping us out.  Will update the list 
> when it gets
> back.  
> 
> How did yours turn out Joe? (guess I should have asked before 
> I decided to
> go with these guys ;-)
> 
> Tom Bejma
> Harrison Twp., MI
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 73H/O OLDSRIP [mailto:jtmwalt@netsync.net]
> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:18 AM
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: steering gear box rebuilds
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Last year at this time I set up a discount for steering gear 
> > box rebuilds from a place called Steer & Gear in Coloumbus,
> > Ohio. I just got off the phone with him and our discount is
> > still good.  I am sending him a box for his firm feel
> > conversion and rebuild/reseal.
> > The firm feel conversion is where he changes the torsion rod, 
> > (I think thats correct) in the box.
> > He can also change the ratio if you want that.
> > 
> > The prices are:
> > 
> > Firm feel conversion and rebuild is $125.00, regular price 
> is $165.00
> > The faster ratio and firm feel rebuild is $165.00, regular $ 210.00
> > 
> > Call Tom at 1-(800) 253-4327, tell him that your from the 
> > Olds internet list.
> > 
> > Joe Walters
> > 73 H/O
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:43:10 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: cheaper MSD source

Folks,

I've been lusting after a new MSD distributor for my 
ignition-challenged 442. I was having a hard time coming up with the 
$340 Summit and Jegs were asking for the 8529 model.
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=MSD%2D8529&N=100+400122&Ntk=P%5FManufacturerPartNumber&Ntt=8529

I found it for a bunch less ($260) at carshopinc.com
http://msdignition.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/40466/8529?osCsid=20d401130929e070636141637a298742

First time I've dealt with them. They shipped promptly, packaged it 
well, and it arrived in just a couple of days.

Oddly enough, their price for the ignition box wasn't as good, so it 
pays to check around.

John
68 442 convt.
- -- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:26:09 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: M-22, or no?

M-22's also have the large output shaft that uses the TH400 yoke.  Trust me, 
I have seen a few of these in person over the years.  Usualy with a bunch of 
big block chevy stuff at a swap meet.  THey are real, but somewhat rare.



Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:28:30 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Olds Sighting

Coming back from a quick trip west yesterday and passed an eastbound 1954 
Olds 88 on a trailer.  Four door sedan that looked barn fresh, very stright 
and solid.

Someone is is going to have fun!  Just wish it was me.


Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:31:10 -0400
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: Man seeks affordable BB Dual xst Mans

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=249570208
1&category=42606

or

http://tinyurl.com/65ddd

Running out of time.

Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Witt [mailto:rocketscience442@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:43 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Man seeks affordable BB Dual xst Mans
> 
> 
> Anyone got some not so fresh W-X-Y-Z's they can help out this guy?
> 
> I have only pretty bad or too good to sell at this time.
> 
> Contact HIM directly please:
> >From: "harv lake" <halnhiwater@military.com>
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "harv lake" <halnhiwater@military.com>
> >To: rocketscience442@hotmail.com
> >Subject: Re: Notchy plate for -3- spd AT console shifter- and Xmans
> >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:38:50 -0400
> >
> >Chris if you get those 442 manifolds I will buy them from you, they
> >want 399 dollars at parts place for new ones! I cant addford that,
> >but will buy anyhting you have that will fit my car for the toro
> >engine. It doesnt have to be in great shape, just ok shape I guess
> >and as long as it works! I will do it later when I have more funds/
> >thansk. But I need manifolds help please!:)
> >-harv
> 
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
> 
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
> 
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------
> >Military.com: your address for everything military 
http://www.military.com
>Free email. Personnel Locator. Thousands of homepages for units, ships, 
>squadrons, and more.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:08:31 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <62oldsfan@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 425 blows oil follow up

> The car has the breather on the passenger valve cover and a 
> breather on the filler tube.  

Well, this is interesting.  My parts catalog list the same cap for use on '66 & '67 V8s (exc. 442 O.A.I.) as a 6420743.  The note reads "wire mesh element."  The 425 I had in my '67 98 (one previous owner, unrestored - even original plug wires) was a "hat style" cap - no wire element.  In fact, I pulled that cap and used it on my '62 Starfire for our trip to Iowa, just to keep the oil from blowing out of the tube.  The 98 was built late in '67, so maybe it's a '68 cap, which has a different number.  The '68 I had was too long ago.  I don't remember what it had for a cap.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:59:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: RE: Be paranoid!

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> My closest call with disaster under a rolling car was with a little '71 
> Austin America I had many years ago.

Good lord! The America... I thought we had the only ones sold on this side
of the pond. Can you believe our family owned two of the things? My oldest
brother bought one first, brand new, but he was an British car nut.
Inexplicably, my other brother bought another new one shortly afterwards,
which was a total surprise since he was not afflicted with that disease.

> I'm under the hood

A common position with those.

> I had, of course, left the car in gear.  :-(  Either the massive current 
> flow through the starter or a just-plain-sticky plunger served to keep the 
> solenoid engaged, and the car immediately lunged forward and knocked me off 
> my feet.

I didn't think they had enough torque to do that. ;-)

Oldest brother kept his running for a while (he is a good mechanic) before
trading it in on '70 Chevelle "Nomad" wagon. The other one succumbed to a
cracked aluminum gearbox case and went away for a pittance. Last British
car that brother ever owned.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:08:33 -0500
From: Stephen Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier

At 08:56 AM 10/25/2004, SSR wrote:

 >John,
 >         First off I'm getting to the email reply late.....But I am getting
 >my '70 C/S's M-22 rebuilt by the guy who did the posi carrier and 3.73 ring
 >gear in my daily driver.  I'll let you know what the costs were all done &
 >said with.  But he quoted me $200-$250 in labor and that was to replace
 >'The Works'.  The only difference in cost was the amount of parts mine
 >requires.
 >         1 rebuild kit (Synchros only) W/Seals, Vs. another with more parts.
 >
 >I'll let you know real soon, as I just dropped with the guy Friday and
 >he'll be tearing it apart this weekend, so I should have it back in 2 weeks
 >or so.
 >
 >My M-22 is also a Driver's side/left speedometer cable W/2 Drain Plugs.
 >
 >Steve Reed
 >'68 Cutlass
 >'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
 >Austin, TX


CBW Replied with......
 >=================
 >Interesting....
 >How do you know it's an M-22?
 >Not to doubt you, it's just that I have heard and heard and heard but never
 >SEEN an M-22.
 >Beginning to sound like the SMW 403 block here. Except that some books
 >actually show pics of the M-22.
 >
 >Anyhow, how did you ascertain that your trans is "M-22" and not say M-21 for
 >SURE?
 >-----------------------
 >Chris Witt

The M-22 has a 26 spline (fine) input shaft, with a TH-400 external 
yoke.  From an OLD YEAR ONE Cat. #R325, Pg 192:

The M-22 close ratio transmission is easily identified internally from the 
M-20 & M-21 versions by the angle of the gear teeth.

**THE FOLLOWING does not apply, as John Livingston writes  NOTHING is 
original on my car; same here **

The M-22 was only produced in a close ratio version, so it will not appear 
on models with high rear axle rations (3.55 or lower numerically).

The M-20 & M21's differ from the M-22:

1.  Input shaft
2.  Cluster Gear
3.  First
4.  Second
5.  Third
6.  Reverse idle gear

All other components interchange.

The above info I got from my guy Gene (rebuilder) today as well as the 
parts supplier, Michelle, in Dallas, TX:

Wade Transmission & Gear Co
2222 Sylvan Ave
Dallas, TX 75208-1800
Phone:  (214) 747-4868
1-800-783-8726

Michelle was a breeze to work with, and made everything easy between me 
giving her my order, plus having her confirm it with my rebuilder, and 
calling me back for billing & shipping info.  My parts should be here 
tomorrow, and I should prob. a functional M-22 by the weekend, although the 
engine is on the garage floor :(

I'm getting there....


Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
Austin, TX 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:20:19 -0500
From: Stephen Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Muncie Gear Angles

At 09:37 AM 10/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>Let me correct my spelling
>M-22 has straighter cut gears, it has 20 degree as opposed to 45 degree 
>angle of cut on gears

Using my adjustable triangle from my good ole' drafting days, I see that 
the M-20 & M-21's gears are cut @ an angle of ~31', and an M-22's are cut @ 
~21' from the photo in the old Year One catalog.

There is a visible difference, but it's not THAT much.

Also with the gear < cut of the M-22's they will be a bit noisier than the 
M-20 & M-21 units.





Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
Austin, TX 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:35:01 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 307 balancer

25 Oct 2004  SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net> writes:
> Does NAPA have a crank balancer installation tool?? Anybody have 
> the PN? Will one of those used with Ch*bbies/Frods work? I was 
> hoping 
> to be able to sand down the inside of my 307 balancer so it'd slip 
> on, at least with no more than gentle tapping. But can't even get 
> it started over the crank yet. Will try heating the thing in the 
> oven but am afraid that may just make it seize if I get it cockeyed.

> SteveH

Don't hammer on those, that's what I used to do before I 
was shown the light.  JCW has a $25 tool for putting those 
on with a couple of wrenches.  Come off the same general 
way.  No need to spend $50 for the same tool from someone 
else.  

Make sure things are cleaned up, check the interference 
fit.  Should be around 1/2 mil.     Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:32:26 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS

How much power can an M-20 handle, as opposed to an M-22?

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:58:34 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Pistons change size?

A couple of guys on another list I belong to say that pistons can somehow
become undersized because of heat and pressure. One guy swears that the
pistons in his motor measure .01 inch smaller now than when he put the motor
together. I contend that's impossible, unless they lost material somewhere..
which should show up maybe as galled aluminum in the bores. Is this an old
"mechanic's tale" maybe, or is there something that I'm missing?

Milt?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:21:00 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Pistons change size?

At 06:58 PM 10/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>A couple of guys on another list I belong to say that pistons can 
>somehow become undersized because of heat and pressure. One guy 
>swears that the pistons in his motor measure .01 inch smaller now 
>than when he put the motor together. I contend that's impossible, 
>unless they lost material somewhere.. which should show up maybe as 
>galled aluminum in the bores. Is this an old "mechanic's tale" maybe, 
>or is there something that I'm missing? 

Ever hear of "collapsed piston skirts"? That's what happens: the skirts
essentially collapse.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:26:20 -0400
From: "John Orr" <olds330@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS

  they where made for road races.... so I am told...  not good for the 
drags...
john
67 cutlass supreme 4 speed


> How much power can an M-20 handle, as opposed to an M-22?
>
> Chris
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:24:56 -0400
From: "John Orr" <olds330@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Muncie Gear Angles

that's why they called them "rock crushers"     
john
67 cutlass supreme 4 speed....  
not stock... but sure is fun to drive this way

Also with the gear < cut of the M-22's they will be a bit noisier than the 
> M-20 & M-21 units.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:56:04 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

Steve,

Did you try to install the balancer without the square key in place?
Sometimes the slot for the square key is very tight, or there are burrs on
the key or in the key slot.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "SteveH" <k0xp@dandy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings


> Does NAPA have a crank balancer installation tool?? Anybody have
> the PN? Will one of those used with Ch*bbies/Frods work? I was hoping
> to be able to sand down the inside of my 307 balancer so it'd slip
> on, at least with no more than gentle tapping. But can't even get
> it started over the crank yet. Will try heating the thing in the
> oven but am afraid that may just make it seize if I get it cockeyed.
>
>
> Thanks,
> SteveH
>
>
>
> ===================================================================
> EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
> ===================================================================
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:06:37 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

> What's sposed to keep it spaced back from that cap so it
> doesn't wear into it?????  The '80s CSMs don't even seem to give
> a spec on how far from the cap it should be located.


There's a lip on the side of the gear that spaces it away from anything.
Isn't the lip there?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:10:15 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

> I'm going to  tear it down and inspect/replace this winter. The question
is;
> how do you get cam bearings out and in? I've never done this before and I
> envision a bushing tool the right size on a long extension/handle.


A genuine cam bearing removal and installation tool, specifically made for
the job.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:16:44 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 425 blows oil follow up

Tim,

> The car has been driven back and forth on the same TX to KS route twice
with no problems since the engine rebuild.  It still runs perfectly smooth
and the same performance as before it started pumping oil out.  The car has
the breather on the passenger valve cover and a breather on the filler tube.


You only need one inlet breather. There's a push-on solid cap also available
and used on Olds engines. I think I would use that on the oil fill tube.
However, that doesn't answer the question why you suddenly had the problem.
Where is the inlet filter for the valve cover inlet breather? Is it plugged,
forcing a buildup of internal gases? You're sure the PVC valve is free and
rattling? When the engine is running at idle, can you heard the PCV valve
rattling, indicating it is free and cycling?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:35:17 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Pistons change size?

> A couple of guys on another list I belong to say that pistons can somehow
> become undersized because of heat and pressure. One guy swears that the
> pistons in his motor measure .01 inch smaller now than when he put the
motor
> together. I contend that's impossible, unless they lost material
somewhere..
> which should show up maybe as galled aluminum in the bores. Is this an old
> "mechanic's tale" maybe, or is there something that I'm missing?


It's called piston skirt collapse. It's caused by the pistons being sized
way too tight in the bores during rebuild, poor quality piston material,
revving the engine way too tight, or a combination of the three. There's a
very good reason the abbreviated piston skirts on ultra-lightweight pistons
look like they do, very solid and prominent while being very compact, making
the piston look very unusual.

I'll bet the individual who said that had some piston skirt knock in his
engine.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5071
*********************************
