
oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, October 14 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5057



What year is this Cutlass? 77, 78......
Re: Re:
Re: Re:
Re: more MSD headaches
'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car
Re: Re:
Re: Re:
'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car
RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
Anti-Rust Solution Application
Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
RE:'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car
Re: more MSD headaches
Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault
Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault
Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault
Toro AL intakes in the works
49 Olds 88
on the verge of having OCA Judging results!
76 98 jack, couple of steering wheels, etc. on eVil now

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:19:00 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: What year is this Cutlass? 77, 78......

The configuration was 2 headlights with turn signals 
beside them, later (I think 1980) 4 headlights with the 
signals in the bumper (no room beside the headlights).

Bruce Roe

13 Oct 2004  "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> it's an '80 Supreme and it's not a 307....but a '77- '80 
> 350,
> thanks Steve H.
> 
> Although I'm still confused as to the frontend 
> configuration....doesn't
> match any pics I've seen anywhere. Hmmm.....
> 
> Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:20:29 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

Thanks so much for your concern.......,Ron!
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> just checking.
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>
> > No, just scouting around. Ha
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:39 PM
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> >> what were you explore,life in handcuffs . lol
> >> Ron
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:46 PM
> >
> >> > Ah yes the Matador; the cops from my home town had them for awhile.
They
> > had
> >> > a police special 409 (I think), and they were run on propane.I used
to
> > ride
> >> > with them once in awhile( I was an explorer scout) , and they would
> > scare
> >> > the pebbles out of me in those cars. Those ole (Ramblers) could
really
> >> > scream,to bad they were such a POS; all kinds of electrical trouble.
2
> > of
> >> > the cars they had set up with nitro methane, and when they hit that
> > button,
> >> > you best hold on to your butt. I watched them run down Vetts. and
> > Mustangs
> >> > all the time. They were funky cars, as were the Gremlins. I knew a
guy
> > that
> >> > shoe horned a big block AMC engine in one of them, it was lime green
and
> > ran
> >> > like a scalded cat. Here's one for you, Plymouth Valiants are really
hot
> >> > over here all of the sudden. I used to hate those cars, now it's
kind'a
> > neat
> >> > to see them on the road.
> >> >
> >> > Rick Messenger
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:23 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Re:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> At 09:55 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >> >What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the
AMC
> >> >> >Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. That was designed and made here in the good ole US of A.
> >> >> 2. It was RWD.
> >> >>
> >> >> But no, I didn't think of the Pacer and no, I never liked the looks
of
> >> >> them. However, I DID sorta like the exterior looks of the ole
Matadors
> > the
> >> >> LA cops used to have. Those could be fairly quick, a guy I used to
know
> >> >> with a '69 Z28 got run down by one  ;o(((
> >> >>
> >> >> SteveH
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:25:28 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

Hey Ron, do you use "Potty words" when changing plugs, or when your (gasp) ,
check engine lite comes on. Do you say," Poo Poo, there's that darn light
again"; heck, I wonder why? LOL, titer, and giggle uncontrollably.
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> just checking.
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>
> > No, just scouting around. Ha
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:39 PM
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> >> what were you explore,life in handcuffs . lol
> >> Ron
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:46 PM
> >
> >> > Ah yes the Matador; the cops from my home town had them for awhile.
They
> > had
> >> > a police special 409 (I think), and they were run on propane.I used
to
> > ride
> >> > with them once in awhile( I was an explorer scout) , and they would
> > scare
> >> > the pebbles out of me in those cars. Those ole (Ramblers) could
really
> >> > scream,to bad they were such a POS; all kinds of electrical trouble.
2
> > of
> >> > the cars they had set up with nitro methane, and when they hit that
> > button,
> >> > you best hold on to your butt. I watched them run down Vetts. and
> > Mustangs
> >> > all the time. They were funky cars, as were the Gremlins. I knew a
guy
> > that
> >> > shoe horned a big block AMC engine in one of them, it was lime green
and
> > ran
> >> > like a scalded cat. Here's one for you, Plymouth Valiants are really
hot
> >> > over here all of the sudden. I used to hate those cars, now it's
kind'a
> > neat
> >> > to see them on the road.
> >> >
> >> > Rick Messenger
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:23 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Re:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> At 09:55 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >> >What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the
AMC
> >> >> >Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. That was designed and made here in the good ole US of A.
> >> >> 2. It was RWD.
> >> >>
> >> >> But no, I didn't think of the Pacer and no, I never liked the looks
of
> >> >> them. However, I DID sorta like the exterior looks of the ole
Matadors
> > the
> >> >> LA cops used to have. Those could be fairly quick, a guy I used to
know
> >> >> with a '69 Z28 got run down by one  ;o(((
> >> >>
> >> >> SteveH
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:31:45 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches

I have been watching this conversation , and I am thinking about boosting my
ignition. I have not seen any one mention Jacobs; what is the difference
between MSD and Jacobs. Is Jacobs any good or not, they recommend replacing
the stock HEI coil, with one of theirs.  Just wondering what you all think.
Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches


> > Hmm. I guess I'd really better try the original HEI setup before
> > yanking the engine. I don't think I want to tell you where the
> > Blaster coil is currently placed. Steve would not only insist on my
> > shade tree license; he'd probably also want my car keys.
>
>
> Murphy and his family happen sometimes.
>
> I had been resisting saying this, because I didn't want to risk hurting
> anyone's feelings. However, buying used and refurbished NASCAR MSD modules
> makes me very uncomfortable. First, one has no idea what has happened to
the
> electronics while in its former use. Second, one doesn't know how well any
> electronic problems were uncovered or diagnosed during electronic bench
> testing by whomever refurbished the unit. Third, if MSD themselves didn't
> refurbish the unit, I would hold the third party entity who did as
suspect.
> Finally, fourth, Murphy and his family just love to play with refurbished
> electronic devices. That's always a given.
>
> I hate to say this, but purchasing a brand new MSD 6A unit and all the
> necessary MSD conversion parts for a GM HEI would have been the best way
to
> go. The MSD instruction manual is just that...it's a complete book. You
> simply can't go wrong with it. Absolute worst case is the excellent MSD
> trouble-shooting support available by phone.
>
> I'm sorry, but compared to my past 15 years experience with 3 MSD units,
> Thunder, the '65 F-85, and the '77 Dodge van, and replacing a couple due
to
> very high mileage use, I'd say that refurbished NASCAR MSD unit is bad.
>
> In building a high performance car, cutting corners on price generally
> doesn't work out well.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:39:36 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: '54 Olds F-88 Concept Car

Olds made 2 of the F88 concept cars.  One burned at the end of the show 
season.  It seems an Olds employee bought all the extra parts Olds had for 
them, forget if it was before or after he got the F88.  Anyway, the car was 
body-off restored at a resto shop in Tempe, AZ about 6-7 years ago.  I 
stopped a few times to check it out in the process.  Car was perfect when 
completed. Like a dumbass, I didn't take any pics after it was finished. It 
has changed hands a couple of times since then. I heard not too long ago 
that it was in some high dollar museum in the Northwest US.

Joe Varley
       AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:40:03 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

hell i remember the days when i got arrested for my  1969 w30 442. and raceing it behind piscataway 
votech. in nj
ron

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> Thanks so much for your concern.......,Ron!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>
>> just checking.
>> ron
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
>> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re:
>>
>>
>> > No, just scouting around. Ha
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
>> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:39 PM
>> > Subject: Re:
>> >
>> >
>> >> what were you explore,life in handcuffs . lol
>> >> Ron
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
>> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:46 PM
>> >
>> >> > Ah yes the Matador; the cops from my home town had them for awhile.
> They
>> > had
>> >> > a police special 409 (I think), and they were run on propane.I used
> to
>> > ride
>> >> > with them once in awhile( I was an explorer scout) , and they would
>> > scare
>> >> > the pebbles out of me in those cars. Those ole (Ramblers) could
> really
>> >> > scream,to bad they were such a POS; all kinds of electrical trouble.
> 2
>> > of
>> >> > the cars they had set up with nitro methane, and when they hit that
>> > button,
>> >> > you best hold on to your butt. I watched them run down Vetts. and
>> > Mustangs
>> >> > all the time. They were funky cars, as were the Gremlins. I knew a
> guy
>> > that
>> >> > shoe horned a big block AMC engine in one of them, it was lime green
> and
>> > ran
>> >> > like a scalded cat. Here's one for you, Plymouth Valiants are really
> hot
>> >> > over here all of the sudden. I used to hate those cars, now it's
> kind'a
>> > neat
>> >> > to see them on the road.
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick Messenger
>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> > From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
>> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> >> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:23 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: Re:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> At 09:55 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> >> >> >What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the
> AMC
>> >> >> >Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. That was designed and made here in the good ole US of A.
>> >> >> 2. It was RWD.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But no, I didn't think of the Pacer and no, I never liked the looks
> of
>> >> >> them. However, I DID sorta like the exterior looks of the ole
> Matadors
>> > the
>> >> >> LA cops used to have. Those could be fairly quick, a guy I used to
> know
>> >> >> with a '69 Z28 got run down by one  ;o(((
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SteveH
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:37:23 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

just curse when my arms get stuck. or when i cant figure out what the heck the  jack ass engineer 
was thinking. but as check engine light. i just grab my scanner and scan it. since my own cars  that 
have ecm and pcm are a 89 k2500 chevy and a 94 caprice its not to bad but i love the imfamous po420 
cat effienciency code. comes on in the 96- present cars. the look on custmors face when you say o2 
sensor or cat may be bad. then you tell them toyota gets 300 for o2 and over 1000. for cat.
but generally i love troubleshooting. it keeps me on my toes.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> Hey Ron, do you use "Potty words" when changing plugs, or when your (gasp) ,
> check engine lite comes on. Do you say," Poo Poo, there's that darn light
> again"; heck, I wonder why? LOL, titer, and giggle uncontrollably.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>
>> just checking.
>> ron
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
>> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re:
>>
>>
>> > No, just scouting around. Ha
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
>> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:39 PM
>> > Subject: Re:
>> >
>> >
>> >> what were you explore,life in handcuffs . lol
>> >> Ron
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
>> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:46 PM
>> >
>> >> > Ah yes the Matador; the cops from my home town had them for awhile.
> They
>> > had
>> >> > a police special 409 (I think), and they were run on propane.I used
> to
>> > ride
>> >> > with them once in awhile( I was an explorer scout) , and they would
>> > scare
>> >> > the pebbles out of me in those cars. Those ole (Ramblers) could
> really
>> >> > scream,to bad they were such a POS; all kinds of electrical trouble.
> 2
>> > of
>> >> > the cars they had set up with nitro methane, and when they hit that
>> > button,
>> >> > you best hold on to your butt. I watched them run down Vetts. and
>> > Mustangs
>> >> > all the time. They were funky cars, as were the Gremlins. I knew a
> guy
>> > that
>> >> > shoe horned a big block AMC engine in one of them, it was lime green
> and
>> > ran
>> >> > like a scalded cat. Here's one for you, Plymouth Valiants are really
> hot
>> >> > over here all of the sudden. I used to hate those cars, now it's
> kind'a
>> > neat
>> >> > to see them on the road.
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick Messenger
>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> > From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
>> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> >> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:23 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: Re:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> At 09:55 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> >> >> >What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the
> AMC
>> >> >> >Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. That was designed and made here in the good ole US of A.
>> >> >> 2. It was RWD.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But no, I didn't think of the Pacer and no, I never liked the looks
> of
>> >> >> them. However, I DID sorta like the exterior looks of the ole
> Matadors
>> > the
>> >> >> LA cops used to have. Those could be fairly quick, a guy I used to
> know
>> >> >> with a '69 Z28 got run down by one  ;o(((
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SteveH
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:31:10 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: '54 Olds F-88 Concept Car

The 53 Vette was also stuck with a 2 speed automatic.  
Olds was doing 4 speed Hydramatic or stick.  I saw 
an ad asking a fortune for an "original" 53; if you want 
a Vette, why would anyone buy a 53?   Bruce Roe

13 Oct 2004  Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org> writes:
> At 10:47 AM 10/13/04, John Orr wrote:
> >   not sure here, but pretty sure the vette came out in 53

> Yup, but the '53 vettes were stuck with a 6 banger.  The F88 had a 
> v-8.

> Mark Mullins

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:24:42 -0400
From: "Daniel Burk" <dan@ws6transam.org>
Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door

Sounds like the perfect donor car to fix up my '65 post coupe F85 Deeluxe.
Road trip anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:14:21 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Anti-Rust Solution Application

Listmembers,

I'm in the process of rebuilding a 1985 GMC truck that will eventually be 
used to haul Grace and our other race cars around (Olds content) and need advice 
on getting the trick solution posted here recently (rust converter) applied in 
some hard-to-reach areas.

This particular truck had a fire that seems to have originated behind the 
seat.  Someone halfheartedly "repaired" the truck, only to have it wind up in a 
friend's tow lot.  I got it for cheap ($800 for a running truck didn't seem too 
bad) and have a 81 Brand C interior I'll mix-and-match for replacement parts. 
 Anyway, the paint was scorched off inside the cab in the back and on the 
ceiling.  While I can sand and repaint the areas visible, I want to make darn 
sure the areas I _don't_ see get treated so a few years down the road I'm not 
redoing the body work all over again.

If you're familiar with this era of trucks (as well as others) there's an 
inner ceiling and then the outside of the cab roof.  Also, below the rear window 
there's a doubled-up piece of steel that needs treated inside as well.  Since 
I'm installing a headliner removing part of the inside ceiling wouldn't hurt 
if needed, and I could drill some large holes in the part below the rear window 
- -- but how to actually get the solution inside?  Suggestions?

Oddly enough, the areas outside the cab that are scorched are in relatively 
good shape, requiring only some slight massaging, sanding, priming and 
repainting.  A couple of small rusted areas behind the rear tires on the bed sides and 
a driver's door that will be replaced and it'll be ready for a complete 
repainting.  Then it'll get everything put back together, a replacement engine and 
rebuilt 700R4, some new tires on repainted wheels and I can start getting back 
to working on Grace!

Thanks in advance for the assistance, Take Care!
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:17:32 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application

Ken,

Can you remove all of the interior in the section where you need to get the
de-rusting fluid? If so, use a plastic pump spray bottle and a plastic water
squirt gun for longer reach. Spray and squirt the de-rust solution
everywhere you need to get it. Then, flush it out with high pressure water.
You would have to use plastic for the spray and squirt guns, for the de-rust
solution would kill a metal one.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:14 PM
Subject: Anti-Rust Solution Application


> Listmembers,
>
> I'm in the process of rebuilding a 1985 GMC truck that will eventually be
> used to haul Grace and our other race cars around (Olds content) and need
advice
> on getting the trick solution posted here recently (rust converter)
applied in
> some hard-to-reach areas.
>
> This particular truck had a fire that seems to have originated behind the
> seat.  Someone halfheartedly "repaired" the truck, only to have it wind up
in a
> friend's tow lot.  I got it for cheap ($800 for a running truck didn't
seem too
> bad) and have a 81 Brand C interior I'll mix-and-match for replacement
parts.
>  Anyway, the paint was scorched off inside the cab in the back and on the
> ceiling.  While I can sand and repaint the areas visible, I want to make
darn
> sure the areas I _don't_ see get treated so a few years down the road I'm
not
> redoing the body work all over again.
>
> If you're familiar with this era of trucks (as well as others) there's an
> inner ceiling and then the outside of the cab roof.  Also, below the rear
window
> there's a doubled-up piece of steel that needs treated inside as well.
Since
> I'm installing a headliner removing part of the inside ceiling wouldn't
hurt
> if needed, and I could drill some large holes in the part below the rear
window
> -- but how to actually get the solution inside?  Suggestions?
>
> Oddly enough, the areas outside the cab that are scorched are in
relatively
> good shape, requiring only some slight massaging, sanding, priming and
> repainting.  A couple of small rusted areas behind the rear tires on the
bed sides and
> a driver's door that will be replaced and it'll be ready for a complete
> repainting.  Then it'll get everything put back together, a replacement
engine and
> rebuilt 700R4, some new tires on repainted wheels and I can start getting
back
> to working on Grace!
>
> Thanks in advance for the assistance, Take Care!
> SrA Ken Snyder
> Kansas City, Kansas
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:57:24 -0400
From: "Zito, James A (GE Energy)" <james.zito@ps.ge.com>
Subject: RE:'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car

This may be old news, but still damn cool:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp
?id=178112

I've seen old pics of this car before, but do not know its history.
Who's down for some storytelling?  :)

 ~ Dan


IIRC 
In actuality this car marked the beginning of the end for Oldsmobile.  It
was a mid engined fibreglass bodied vehicle with great performance.  That
Grand Ma wouldn't let Olds build, because Ch*vy had the 'v*tt* on the
drawing boards at the time.  So GM told Olds  You  can't build this but we
will let you build front wheel drive cars instead (aka the Toronado).

I though that both of the F85's that were produced were still being sotred
in the GM vaults somewhere out west.  I guess if you have killed off the
brand there is no point to keeping the history around.......

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:35:27 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches

> I have been watching this conversation , and I am thinking about boosting
my
> ignition. I have not seen any one mention Jacobs; what is the difference
> between MSD and Jacobs.


I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about Jacobs. Christopher A.
Jacobs, Ph.D., E.E., has a very good book, THE DOCTOR'S STEP-BY-STEP GUIDE
TO OPTIMIZING YOUR IGNITION, that is excellent. The only thing I would say
is that Jacobs Electronics may not have the manufacturing and R&D capacity
of MSD, but that's the only downside I might see at this time.

However, MSD is very versitile in what they can do. At the Univ. of Arizona
for our continuing NASA hybrid rocket research contract, we used a specially
designed MSD continuous fire ignition unit modified by MSD from a 6A
ignition unit. It provided the continuous electrical plasma to fire our
hybrid rocket engine. I was very impressed in the way that continuous fire
unit worked, consistently without any malfunction.


> Is Jacobs any good or not, they recommend replacing
> the stock HEI coil, with one of theirs.


Yes, always replace the stock coil, even a GM HEI unit. That way, you will
know positively the new same brand coil will be compatible with the same
brand of ignition module you're using.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:32:26 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault

No hurt feelings here, Milton! I'm quite accustomed to serving as a 
fine example of what not to do. I should've phrased my subject a bit 
differently, so as to not cast any blame in MSD's direction. That was 
unintended. And I do agree that, should someone ask my opinion, I'd 
say get the 6A kit and be done with it. However, I'm still not sure 
my woes are the used ignition unit's responsibility. Pause to ponder, 
if you will, the chain of events:

1. I install the box but use the in-cap coil.
2. Car fires up immediately, but idles fast.
3. Dweeb that I am, I attribute fast idle to some fiddling I'd done 
with the throttle linkage.
4. I drive the car. Soon as I hit the throttle I get backfiring. Not 
horrible, but significant.
5. List tells me to adjust timing.
6. I bring that back from maybe 50 degrees to something between 10 
and 20. It runs pretty well.
7. List isn't happy (understandably) with my routing of the pickup 
wire. I pull the cap and reroute it. Backfiring, albeit a bit milder, 
returns under acceleration.
8. I pull the vacuum advance line and plug it. Try driving the car 
with just the centrifugal advance. It runs great. I can go full 
throttle, part throttle, no problems. We go for a drive.
9. Six miles into the drive the engine dies like someone had cut its 
throat. Attempts to restart get nothing other than an occasional, 
almost non-existent sputter.
10. I pull cap to put on MSD no-cap coil dustcover. Hook up the 
Blaster coil, lengthen some of the leads so everything is routed away 
from electrical interference sources. I get a bit more sputtering.
11. I loosen the distributor clamp. Rotate it a bit counterclockwise 
. I get one enormous backfire.
12. I rotate the distributor clockwise. The car starts but idles very 
rough and will take no additional gas. I try to set timing. It's 
showing maybe 30 or 40 degrees of advance (where it would run fine 
before at idle speeds). I try to get it lower and lose plug one 
entirely and just get rougher running. I resist the urge to set fire 
to the thing with myself in it.

This engine came in the car when I bought it five years ago. The 
owner of the time said he knew nothing of its origins, which 
generally means it's got plenty of miles. I've put 30,000 on it since 
then. Could it be that the backfiring weakened an already worn 
(probably cast iron) timing sprocket, and it finally just let go of a 
couple of teeth?

I will try restoring the original HEI set up this weekend, if I can 
figure out how to get it static timed. I've got a feeling, though, 
that that's not going to help.

Thanks for your patience!

John Who Should Probably Just Own Factory-Serviced Civics Livingston

>  > Hmm. I guess I'd really better try the original HEI setup before
>>  yanking the engine. I don't think I want to tell you where the
>>  Blaster coil is currently placed. Steve would not only insist on my
>>  shade tree license; he'd probably also want my car keys.
>
>
>Murphy and his family happen sometimes.
>
>I had been resisting saying this, because I didn't want to risk hurting
>anyone's feelings. However, buying used and refurbished NASCAR MSD modules
>makes me very uncomfortable. First, one has no idea what has happened to the
>electronics while in its former use. Second, one doesn't know how well any
>electronic problems were uncovered or diagnosed during electronic bench
>testing by whomever refurbished the unit. Third, if MSD themselves didn't
>refurbish the unit, I would hold the third party entity who did as suspect.
>Finally, fourth, Murphy and his family just love to play with refurbished
>electronic devices. That's always a given.
>
>I hate to say this, but purchasing a brand new MSD 6A unit and all the
>necessary MSD conversion parts for a GM HEI would have been the best way to
>go. The MSD instruction manual is just that...it's a complete book. You
>simply can't go wrong with it. Absolute worst case is the excellent MSD
>trouble-shooting support available by phone.
>
>I'm sorry, but compared to my past 15 years experience with 3 MSD units,
>Thunder, the '65 F-85, and the '77 Dodge van, and replacing a couple due to
>very high mileage use, I'd say that refurbished NASCAR MSD unit is bad.
>
>In building a high performance car, cutting corners on price generally
>doesn't work out well.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:55:32 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault

> I try to get it lower and lose plug one
> entirely and just get rougher running.


And that's exactly the reason I think there's something wrong with the
internal electronics. That screams electrical failure. The fact the problem
seems to alter itself almost at random indicates an intermittent and/or heat
buildup related failure of an electronic component(s). The MSD ignition unit
is capable of isolating individual plugs, and it just chucked current to
plug #1.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:08:12 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches that aren't MSD's fault

>  > I try to get it lower and lose plug one
>>  entirely and just get rougher running.
>
>
>And that's exactly the reason I think there's something wrong with the
>internal electronics. That screams electrical failure. The fact the problem
>seems to alter itself almost at random indicates an intermittent and/or heat
>buildup related failure of an electronic component(s). The MSD ignition unit
>is capable of isolating individual plugs, and it just chucked current to
>plug #1.

Okay. Then do you think if I just get the HEI pieces back in and use 
the current position of the distributor as a starting point to set 
timing, that it should fire up?

Thanks for hanging in there!

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:20:33 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Toro AL intakes in the works

From: cordax1964@att.net
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:16:53 +0000

My name is Gary Rockwell. I live near Dayton and have a GMC motorhome with 
the
Olds 455 drive train. I am reproducing the intake manifold in aluminum for 
this
engine. The new aluminum manifold fits the original profile, so you do not 
need
to raise the floor in the motorhome or the hood on a Toronado/Cutlass.

I have to order a minimum of 100 castings next month, so I wanted to know if
anyone in your group would be interested in a new aluminum intake manifold 
for
the olds 455. The price is $500.00 each complete.

Please let me know of any websites or clubs that may have people needing a
manifold.

I posted pictures of the project including the prototype manifold:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/gallery/showalbum.php?aid=738&uuid=grockwell

Thanks,

Gary Rockwell
937-367-3744
===================
WOW
i cannot afford such a piece at this time, but the thing is intriguing.
How much for one of the clear plastic prototypes? Maybe I can afford that... 
That would be damn cool to have.  Dennis- look at the link, ck the last few 
pics, the prototype unit. Maybe a nice AL tri-carb unit can be whipped up 
next. Why stop there? Four 2-bbls, one over each pair of cylinders!

Hey, since it's in the development stage, how about adding the boss for coil 
mounting aft of the carb, like non-toro intakes, in case someone wants to do 
that. Never easier than right now. Speaking of which, what with no heat 
crossover, and a blank sheet to start with.... I was wondering about the 
possibility of changing the runners' positon/ location to take more 
advantage of the open space available in the lifter valley, and smooth the 
bends and such as much as possible. Perhaps more gains are possible? No time 
like the present...

I was just reading up on the development of the Toronado in general*, and 
they say that the Toro intake, rather than inhibiting performance, was 
required to show GAINS**. That has been my experience, too, in actual use. 
You might sell a LOT of these to the G-body crew if you flow test and/or 
real world race test and show improvement over other similar competitors 
such as the Performer intake.

I worked on a race car that went from '69 Toro 455 with tallish AL 
[Performer?] intake and Holley carb to 67 toro 425 with stock intake, stock 
carb, that alone took 1 second off the 1/4 mile ET. Granted the 425 beats 
the 455 alone, but, the point is that the stock Toro intake flows very well.

I do get occasional requests for uncracked stock Toro intakes for motor home 
use, I can direct them your way if an AL manifold suits their needs.


* SAE publication 660154: "Toronado- new breed"

** "No compromise could be tolerated in reduced engine breathing capacity; 
rather, increased engine performance was demanded." [pg 29].  Also: "The 
intake manifold branch area was increased from 2.50 sq. in. to 2.60 sq. in. 
and the longitudinal runners was [sic] increased in cross sectional area 
from 2.67 sq. in. to 3.40 sq. in. These improvements, together with smooth 
branch design, resulted in a substantial reduction in intake manifold air 
friction losses." [pg. 31]

Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

517-449-0432

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: 49 Olds 88

I'm seriously considering buying this 1949 Olds 88:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2494066040&fromMakeTrack=true

Comments?

=====
John Pajak

http://jspajak.tripod.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:20:45 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: on the verge of having OCA Judging results!

Is it just me, or does this sound curt and PO'd?

:-)

CBWitt
+++++++++++++++++++

>From: "Bill & Liz Blood" <weblood@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>CC: "Bob Casey" <yellowbird@golden.net>
>Subject: Re: Update on 2004 Judging Results? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 
>01:39:45 -0500
>
>Mr. Witt- I am sending your judging form and attendant award via registered
>mail on  Thursday as informed by Chief Judge Bob Casey. You should receive
>it within a week.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
>To: <weblood@worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:27 AM
>Subject: Update on 2004 Judging Results?
>
>
> > Mr. Blood;
> >
> > As I understand it, you are forwarding the judging results and award for
>the
> > 1966 L-69 at the 2004 OCA national Meet, per my request. So I hear, from
>Bob
> > Casey. Have not heard from you directly on that matter, nor anything in
>the
> > last week or two, so thought I would ask for an update on the progress 
>of
> > that mission.
> >
> > Thanks, Chris
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:12:27 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 76 98 jack, couple of steering wheels, etc. on eVil now

Here ya go
76 98 Jack, 1966 red steering wheel, 4-spoke sport wheel, etc.
330 crank now cheaper, #3 heads also.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=*the*rocketscientist&since=30&sort=8&rows=25

or, if that's too much for you:

http://tinyurl.com/3mtr3

CBWitt
Thanks for looking!
clues appreciated of course.

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5057
*********************************
