
oldsmobile-digest     Sunday, September 19 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5027



Re: 61 Dynamic 88
Re: 81 Cutlass Diesel
Re: 81 Cutlass Diesel
SSII brake clearance questions
Bumper Shocks.
50 + 50 != 100
Diesel Questions
HEI too Big!!!
81 Cutlass Diesel
Bumper Shocks.
81 Cutlass Diesel
Re: Ebay '65 Riveria
Lock
Quick Clay Endorsement
RE: Lock
RE: Quick Clay Endorsement

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:38:00 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 61 Dynamic 88

> On my 67 Delta 88 I keep going through RF wheel bearrings. I just don't
get it, I'm lucky if I get a year out of that side, which equals around 5,00
miles.Left side no problem, In the 30 or sooooooo years of greasing and
replacing them on my other vehicles, I have never had this problem before.
Each time I replace I use a different manufacture's, which means several
different countries too. I've tried different drums, no difference. I'm
leaning towards the axle, but don't know how to check for.  I could use some
suggestions on what to look for..


Sounds like the spindle shaft is bent. There could be something wrong with
the wheel hub internally, but when you spin the wheel, you should be able to
visually detect some runout on the wheel rim. Don't look at the tire, for
its edge probably isn't true. A front end alignment shop should be able to
detect any runout problems or a bent spindle shaft on their alignment
equipment. Have you seen any unusual wear patterns on that tire tread? You
should see something different for that wheel/tire.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:47:45 -0700
From: "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 81 Cutlass Diesel

Milton,

I agree to a point with you on the carbs, like I said the 1983 88 runs
pretty well cold, but not like a EFI engine or diesel. (although diesels
will not produce max HP until the combustion chamber temp is at the design
temp, IE fully warmed up engine)

But, since there is no choke on the secondarys, as soon as those start to
open when the engine is cold it will stumble. GM did and has put the little
tang on the choke linkage to keep the air valve closed until the choke is
off, but then the car has no power when you need it. I have experienced this
myself on a number of occasions. When I pull out into traffic, I feel it is
my responsibility to get up to speed without forcing other drives to slow
down for me to accelerate up to speed.

There is one other issue with carbs, and mechanically injected engines such
as older diesels and even the early GM Rochester fulies and that is that
they are simply not capable of dynamically changing the fuel mixture to
accommodate changes in engine temp, altitude (density), incoming air temp
etc. Not a problem comparing peak horsepower to peak horsepower (doesn't
matter on a dyno if it is carb'd or EFI'd) but it sure makes a world of
difference in day to day driving. Some late model Quads have a basic
computer control to them, but the mixture part of it is only for low and
part throttle speeds, once those secondarys open the computer might as well
be disconnected as far the fuel mixture is concerned.

Of course the choke does make a attempt at dynamically adjusting the end
fuel mixture for a cold engine, but it does not take into account the
incoming ambient air temp which will change even with the preheated air off
of the exhaust manifold. At best, you are taking a guess at the optimum
setting for the choke, but the optimum setting for a particular day will not
be the same as the optimum setting for the next day.

Once again my two cents worth, David

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: 81 Cutlass Diesel


> > plus I want a engine that I can start up and
> > give it a fair head of throttle without the stalling/poor running that
> carbs
> > are famous for.
>
>
> That shouldn't be happening with a good carb, unless we're not talking
about
> the same thing. Cold engine with the proper choke setting, the carb should
> work fine, and the car will accelerate.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:08:48 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 81 Cutlass Diesel

> But, since there is no choke on the secondarys, as soon as those start to
> open when the engine is cold it will stumble. GM did and has put the
little
> tang on the choke linkage to keep the air valve closed until the choke is
> off, but then the car has no power when you need it. I have experienced
this
> myself on a number of occasions. When I pull out into traffic, I feel it
is
> my responsibility to get up to speed without forcing other drives to slow
> down for me to accelerate up to speed.


AFBs seem to work much better than Q-jets in that area, particularly with an
electric choke on the AFB. However, I prefer AFBs over any Rochester or
Holley, anyway, for any automotive application.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:36:23 -0700
From: "mike jones" <spazzer@comcast.net>
Subject: SSII brake clearance questions

Has anyone run 12" brakes with Olds SSII wheels and used/not used a spacer?  I know the centers of
the SSII wheels are the same for the 14" and 15" wheels.

Car is a '77 Delta pacecar, thinking of using 1LE rotors on it but I'm afraid the calipers might hit
the inside of the wheels.

TIA, Mike.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:18:12 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Bumper Shocks.

Here is a question for the list. Can the 5 mph.bumper shocks on my '76 98
coupe be either rebuilt, or purchased new some where? The ones at the rear
have been welded solid, and I am thinking of leaving them that way, since I
have fiberglass taillight extensions installed in place of the ABS. But It
might be nice to have working ones for the front. Any advise would be
appreciated. Also, I realize I may have been sleeping during class, but ;
could one of you experts describe to me in detail exactly how to convert my
TH400 to a switch pitch tranny. It seems that the shops I have talked to
aren't up on that one; that sounds like something that might work well with
this car, for power and economy. Also since I am on the subject, would it be
better to just convert it to a 4 speed automatic. I had a 91 Chev. sportside
4X4 with the 700R4, it was an OK unit, it just couldn't make up it's mind
about what it liked better, 3rd or 4th. It would shift between both at
random, when it shouldn't..........,very annoying . The dealership said this
was normal, and not to worry; just like it said that the clunky rearend was
set up according to factory specs., even though it sounded like a gremlin
was hitting the diff. housing, with a ball peen hammer, between 3rd and 4th.

I promise to be paying attention this time! Thanks in advance for the help.
Rick
76 98 coupe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:48:48 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 50 + 50 != 100

Chris is absolutely right.  Crash at 50 into an identical weight 
going 50 the opposite way, is the same for you as crashing 
into a "brick wall" at 50, think about an invisible wall between
the 2 vehicles where they meet.  Bruce Roe (not "Bruce")

18 Sep 2004  "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
> What you say is true. However, if you're traveling 50mph and hit 
> another
> vehicle doing the same speed head on, nothing is going to save you. 
> Air 
> bags,
> crumple zones, nothing will protect you at 100mph collision.
> Bruce
> ==================
> uhm, let's iron that out
> 50 plus 50 does not equal 100 mph. It does not work that way
> We went thru this on the list a year or 3 ago.
> 
> To the occupants of a given car, assuming the vehicles have 
> identical [or 
> nearly so] mass, a head-on with both going 50 results in each 
> decellerating 
> from 50 to 0 in the amount of time the crash takes to occur. That's 
> where 
> crumple zones help, too, spreading the decelleration over longer 
> time.
> 
> Anyhow, that is VERY, VERY different from a single car going 100 mph 
> to 0 by 
> crashing into the immovable object:

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:15:39 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Diesel Questions

I got a diesel (actually 3 cars) because the 20% lower fuel price 
plus the 20% better mileage added up to big bucks.  Plus 
the extra fuel capacity gave huge range (remember no gas 
sales on Sunday?).  With diesel above 87 octane,and the 
service problems, there just isn't much reason to go that 
way anymore.  The last GM diesels were far better then the 
first, and you can do even more (head studs instead of 
bolts for example).  I don't have any running diesels now, 
but the chassis converted to gas is a fabulous cruiser, 
and no emissions testing!

Bruce Roe

18 Sep 2004  Greg Tjosvold <tjosvold@polar7.com> writes:
>  >the it has the pep of a regular car in town,
>  >still can hit 30 mpg even without the lockup converter
> 
> Bruce and Other Diesel Owners,
> 
> Any idea what kind of HP/torque the engine has? How easy was it to 
> service? 
> Are parts still available? Did it have mechanical or EFI?
> 
> I'm still humming and hawing about what motor to put in our 1958 
> custom 
> wagon. The basic objective is to create a unique long haul vehicle 
> for my 
> son's band using mostly Olds parts that can be serviced in smaller 
> cities 
> on tour. I'm leaning towards putting in a 455, but a diesel might 
> have some 
> interesting advantages (especially if we installed a "grease car" 
> option 
> [http://www.greasecar.com/]). However, I've yet to hear from anyone 
> that actually likes their Olds diesel.

> Nanook

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:13:58 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: HEI too Big!!!

sure, there are 19 teeth.  Just advance it a tooth to get 
19 deg on the cam, which is 38 deg on the crank.  

You could also put it in an entirely different position 
by moving the spark plug wires around the circle.  
The total # of possible positions is 8 X 19 = 152, one 
of them should work for you.  

Bruce Roe

18 Sep 2004  "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com> writes:
> I finally got the new 425 for my 69 vert running today but still 
> have problems. I bought an Offenhauser 360 intake for this 
> engine and found the HEI won't fit. 

> With the dist. turned as far as it will go, I've got a total advance 
> of 20 deg. whereas I want 35.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:43:30 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 81 Cutlass Diesel

There is nothing in a 400 to cause a big horsepower loss.
With a 13" converter, and esp a SWP, there will be less slip 
than any smaller trans.  Of course a lockup has none,  but 
I could never see the difference.

What a 400 has is big milled out clutch housings, big 
clutches, a lot more weight.  On the drag strip, you not 
only have to move this weight up to speed, you also have 
to spin it up to max rpm.  This takes energy (once), which 
could cost you a tenth of a second, enough to lose a drag.  
However, in a cruising situation, there are not huge and 
frequent speed changes, so this "loss" is zero for all 
practical purposes.  There is no horsepower loss.

It is a lot cheaper to rebuild a 400, because there is 
never much wrong with them, and they are rather simple 
to work on.  The weaker trans can have all kinds of problems
to fix, and they will fail again much sooner.  A cross member 
is $100 or so.  

The diesel engine seem to be much worse for trans 
failures, I killed a brand new 200C in 9000 miles.  THM350 
does better.

There is the problem of no diesel vacuum for a 350/400 vac 
modulator.  However there is a vacuum valve on many diesels 
that seems towork fine to feed the modulator, on a couple 
of my cars.  

I ran a 350 in a car for some years; when it failed I put in a 
switch pitch 400.  Gas mileage improved slightly, and 0-60 
decreased from 10 seconds to 9 (350 gas, 2.41 axle Delta).
Made a believer out of me.

Bruce Roe

> Well, I understand that the TH400 *does* have more of a horsepower 
> loss
> than the TH350.  Not very much, certainly less than was popularly 
> believed,
> but maybe at most a 5hp difference from what I've gathered from the 
> list.
> 
> Though that might be significant given the fact that the engine only
> produces 105 horsepower net.
> 
> However, the torque, while really low end, isn't an incredibly high 
> amount
> (I wonder if I've got a typo in my tables), but does the diesel 350 
> produce
> only 205 ft-lbs?
> 
> Anyway, I'm thinking that the TH350 would be the "quick and easy" 
> solution.
>  Doesn't require any mucking around with the crossmember... just 
> have to
> run a vacuum line to the modulator.  I think otherwise it's almost a 
> direct
> bolt-in swap?
> 
> I definitely agree with Bruce though that the overdrive will need a 
> better
> set of rear gears, otherwise you might as well just never use the OD 
> . . .
> depending on what rear the car's got . . but given that it's likely, 
> as
> mentioned, 2.29 or 2.41 or thereabouts, you won't really need the 
> overdrive
> unless you get higher rear gears, or are routinely doing 80+ MPH.
> 
> 
> Anyway, going quick easy and cheap, the TH350 seems that it should 
> be far
> more than sufficient given the power produced by the diesel motor.  
> Going
> TH400 or TH200-4R requires getting a different crossmember.
> 
> 
> 	- Joe Vahabzadeh
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:07:07 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Bumper Shocks.

Ther are people who will build you a SWP.  If you find 
an old one, use the parts to convert your present 
THM400/425 trans to SWP.  There are a few tricks 
and special tools to any trans rebuild.  If you already 
know the 400, the SWP isn't much more.  

If you go from a 3 speed to a 4 speed, the performance 
gain is about the same (see magazine article), but you 
need a different axle ratio to finish the job.  Don't try to 
tow in overdrive.  Bruce Roe

18 Sep 2004  "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net> writes:
> > could one of you experts describe to me in detail exactly how
> > to convert my TH400 to a switch pitch tranny. It seems that
> > the shops I have talked to aren't up on that one; that sounds 
> > like something that might work well with this car, for power 
> > and economy. Also since I am on the subject,  would it be
> > better to just convert it to a 4 speed automatic. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:59:03 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 81 Cutlass Diesel

That's why we now use EFI.  Bruce Roe

18 Sep 2004  "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net> writes:
> even the early GM Rochester fulies and that is that
> they are simply not capable of dynamically changing the 
> fuel mixture to accommodate changes in engine temp, 
> altitude (density), incoming air temp etc. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:48:11 -0500
From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Ebay '65 Riveria

it's been so many years I can't remember how they operate. I was looking at
rivs again a few years ago but bought my trans am instead. The clam shels
are a one year only deal and they very often are not working.

Allen Schwartz
Alpine Paving Services, LLC
mycj@tds.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Curt Brennan" <cabrennan@charter.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:12 PM
Subject: Ebay '65 Riveria


> > Sweet riv, shouldn't hat have the clam shels though?
>
> Actually it does have them.....they tuck up inside top and bottom.
> They are there.......but I'm not sure how to make them operate.....are
> they vacuum or electric operated?
>
> I found out the headlights, power windows, and original AM
> radio still work though.....
>
> Curt
>
>
> > From: oldsmobile-digest-owner@chebucto.ns.ca (oldsmobile-digest)
> > Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:44:14 -0300
> > To: oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5024
> >
> > Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:31:01 -0500
> > From: "Allen Schwartz" <mycj@tds.net>
> > Subject: Re: '65 Riviera for sale...............
> >
> > Sweet riv, shouldn't hat have the clam shels though?
> >
> > Allen Schwartz
> > Alpine Paving Services, LLC
> > mycj@tds.net
> > - ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Curt Brennan" <cabrennan@charter.net>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:16 AM
> > Subject: '65 Riviera for sale...............
> >
> >
> >> Incase anyone is interested or knows anyone who may be...........
> >>
> >> Solid restorable '65 Buick Riviera
> >>
> >>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2489145531
> >>
> >> 1965 Riviera......very little rust.....very restorable......West Coast
Car
> >> Located in Eastern Washington State
> >>
> >> Email me off list for more ephotos or info.  The auction is over
tonite.
> >>
> >> Curt
> >> Cabrennan@charter.net
> >>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:00:55 -0500
From: "Dan Sullivan" <Nevada100@comcast.net>
Subject: Lock

Greetings,
I am new to the list although I have been watching it for a while. I wonder
if anybody on the list knows how to remove the lock assembly from a glove
box on a 1966 442? The assembly manual shows the parts only not how to
install/remove them. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Dan Sullivan
1966 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:13:03 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Quick Clay Endorsement

I finally tried a clay bar cleaning on the Cutlass, and I must say I'm impressed.

I used to use a cleaner, polish then wax (all Meguires). This time I tried the quick clay system and topped it off with
a coat of Gold Class. Much less effort and better results. I'd definitely recommend this product to anyone who has paint
worth protecting.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:00:38 -0700
From: "Chris Fair" <cfair@att.net>
Subject: RE: Lock

Unscrew the retaining ring on the outside. The locking cylinder has threads
on it's outside and the inner edge of the bezel (?) screws over the locking
mechanism. I usually use pliers with a rubber glove over 'em to keep from
scratching anything old.  


Cheers,
cf 


- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Dan Sullivan
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:01 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Lock

Greetings,
I am new to the list although I have been watching it for a while. I wonder
if anybody on the list knows how to remove the lock assembly from a glove
box on a 1966 442? The assembly manual shows the parts only not how to
install/remove them. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Dan Sullivan
1966 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:20:01 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Quick Clay Endorsement

Keep in mind that clay is abrasive. Probably not good for clear coats.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Kevin & Casey Olund
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:13 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Quick Clay Endorsement

I finally tried a clay bar cleaning on the Cutlass, and I must say I'm
impressed.

I used to use a cleaner, polish then wax (all Meguires). This time I tried
the quick clay system and topped it off with
a coat of Gold Class. Much less effort and better results. I'd definitely
recommend this product to anyone who has paint
worth protecting.

Kevin

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5027
*********************************
