
oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, September 2 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5009



Cooling - More
Exhaust Loudness
GWB's Cutlass
Re: Piston Motion
Re: GWB's Cutlass
2004 Nationals
Re: GWB's Cutlass
1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx
Parts Place
Re: Parts Place
Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx
Re: Parts Place
Re: Piston Motion
Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx
Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx
Re: GWB's Cutlass
Lansing Toro XS f/s $900/BO very rusty
DADY award- Rocky's clutch cylinder
'93 Cutlass service - man needs H*lp
Re: Parts Place
RE: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:37:53 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Cooling - More

Watter Wetter is a product made by RED LINE. It improves the heat
transfer of the coolant.

Be Cool is a brand name of a high quality aluminum radiator.

Both can be purchased at Summit or Jegs

FYI

Paul Tumolo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:39:10 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Exhaust Loudness

The pipes on my system are the thickest I have ever seen! Top quality
aluminized pipe.

The loudness comes from the mandrel bending. No compression bent
restrictions.

Paul Tumolo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:21:42 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: GWB's Cutlass

Last night, in Lura Bush's speech, she talked about GW's first campaign for
Congress. She stated that she would never forget driving around the state in
George's ****Oldsmobile Cutlass****! I wonder what year the Cutlass was?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:29:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Piston Motion

> I still get acceleration behavior very much different near TDC than it is 
> near BDC. Magnitude differs by a factor of two, for one thing.


That's what Smokey Yunick said.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:59:11 -0400
From: "ftfunnyfarm" <ftfunnyfarm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: GWB's Cutlass

I just wrote the White House and asked...lets see if they answer....LOL

Tami

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:25:21 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 2004 Nationals

It wasn't the jumper; noise was coming in the battery lead 
and confusing it.  Bruce Roe

1 Sep 2004 Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net> writes:
> 8/31/2004 , you wrote:
> >I had some problems with my 79 Cutlass tach.  But it 
> >had nothing to do with age, it was a marginal design.  
> >I added a filter cap on the pc board, and now it's 
> >solid as a rock.  Bruce Roe
> 
> More likely, it was just the jumper. Happens on almost all of them
> eventually. The permanent cure is to solder a jumper in place of the
> plug-in thingy.
> 
> SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:06:26 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.us>
Subject: Re: GWB's Cutlass

On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 12:21:42PM -0700, Infinite Space Systems, Inc. wrote:
> Last night, in Lura Bush's speech, she talked about GW's first campaign for
> Congress. She stated that she would never forget driving around the state in
> George's ****Oldsmobile Cutlass****! I wonder what year the Cutlass was?

There's a thread on the '73-'77 list about it, as it was most likely from
those years.  I think I remember seeing some home-movie footage that was
broadcast on TV (don't know if it was from the 2000 convention or if it was
elsewhere), and that's what it looked like.

  _/_  Scott Alfter (scott@alfter.us)
 / v \ '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:07:29 -0400
From: b_thom@juno.com
Subject: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

Warning: lengthy.

My 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, VIN 1G3BP81Y6KRxxxxxx, with 26,300
miles (no, not 126,300 miles) and a 307 (5.0 liter) V-8, has failed two
emissions tests because of excessive at NOx level at 15 mph on the
treadmill. 

This is a car that never gets driven. It used to be my mom's, so it never
went on long trips. All trips were to the grocery store or doctor's
office. 

My parents held the belief that it was good for a car for it to be warmed
up daily during the winter. They observed this practice religiously, and
no amount of persuasion on my part could make them stop. Over the years,
I have been given a number of their old cars. Every one of them has had
engine problems at strikingly low mileage. Their 1963 Falcon had burned
valves. Their 1967 Country Squire needed a valve job at about 60,000
miles. Their 1976 Cutlass with an R-code 350 needed an engine rebuild at
46,000 miles.

In fact, this Custom Cruiser was beginning to burn oil back in 2000. The
problem was with the number 7 cylinder. My mom took the car to a garage,
where it is said that new valve seals were installed. Just as soon as the
car came back from the garage, my older brother borrowed it and took it
on a trip of a little over two hundred miles. Upon its return, I checked
the oil level. The oil did not even come up to the dipstick. Soon after
that, my mom bought a 2000 Saturn, and the Custom Cruiser was given to me
in August 2000. The mileage then was 23,959, so I haven't been driving it
much either. The car kicks out a big puff of blue smoke when it is
started, and I have to add oil on a regular basis. I can't say for
certain how many miles I get per quart. On occasion, I have poured some
GM Top Engine Cleaner into the carburetor, but not lately. As an aside,
with the purchase of the Saturn, the practice of warming up the car every
day in the winter has been stopped.

Before I took the car in for its annual safety inspection last week, it
had been sitting for several weeks. It was hard to start and idled
poorly. Since it was already at the station for its safety inspection, I
figured I might as well see how it did on the emissions test too,
especially because I was allowed one free retest within fourteen days.
During the test, there was smoke coming from the car. The inspector
pronounced that it came from stuff burning off from the catalytic
converter and did not flunk it on the grounds of visible smoke. I'm not
going to argue with him on that point.

Here are the test results:

==============
Test date August 25, 2004
Data are presented in the form (treadmill speed: limit/reading/result)

HC ppm
15 mph: 97/44/pass
25 mph: 94/29/pass

CO %
15 mph: 0.54/0.02/pass
25 mph: 0.57/0.54/pass

NO ppm
15 mph: 719/1305/fail
25 mph: 655/65/pass

RPM and dilution are valid.
===========

Because the car sees so little use, the inspector suggested that I pour
in a bottle of some engine cleaner, drive the car around, and bring it
back. I put in a bottle of Chevron PRO-GARD right away and later put some
gas in the tank. Upon the addition of the PRO-GARD, the car immediately
started running better. I then drove the car for a week, including a trip
on a local parkway. The car was running so much better that I figured it
had to be capable of passing. I took it back in yesterday. It flunked
again, for the same reason.

==================
Test date August 31, 2004

HC ppm
15 mph: 97/43/pass
25 mph: 94/32/pass

CO %
15 mph: 0.54/0.02/pass
25 mph: 0.57/0.27/pass

NO ppm
15 mph: 719/1323/fail
25 mph: 655/144/pass

RPM and dilution are valid.
===============

A pamphlet handed to me by the inspector suggested that I look for a lean
mixture, an exhaust gas recirculation system failure, or a worn out
catalytic converter. Several posts at Usenet I saw during a search of the
archives for alt.autos.tech and similar groups, regarding vehicles that
have flunked emissions tests for excessive NOx, suggest that I direct my
attention first to the exhaust gas recirculation valve. 

In 1989, Oldsmobile used a solenoid to control sending a vacuum signal to
the exhaust gas recirculation valve. With the engine still hot from the
inspection procedure, and with the vacuum hose that connects the EGR
solenoid and the EGR valve disconnected at the EGR valve, I measured a
good 17" vacuum at the hose with my Mityvac hand pump at some substantial
engine rpm, maybe 2000 rpm, but that's a guess. There are holes in the
bottom of the EGR housing that allow me to actuate the EGR valve's
diaphragm by hand; it moves freely when I do that. With the engine hot,
the vacuum hose reattached to the EGR valve, and the EGR valve mounted on
the intake manifold, I can feel no movement in the diaphragm when I reach
under the air cleaner housing and open the throttle by hand. 

I took the EGR valve off the manifold. The passages were sooty, but there
was no obvious tear in the diaphragm. Applying the Mityvac hand pump to
the EGR valve, I couldn't make the diaphragm move. Bingo. That must be
it. I called AutoZone, to see if they had a replacement. They did, and
then the AutoZone clerk pointed out a footnote in the AutoZone computer
that notes it is not possible to test the EGR valve with a hand pump. The
Haynes manual for 1970-1990 full-size Oldsmobiles, Buicks, and Pontiacs
also says that positive backpressure type EGR valves cannot be checked
without special tools, and that the appropriate course of action is to
replace the valve. The part number for the OEM EGR valve on this car is
17085749. If I am not mistaken, all 1989 Oldsmobile V-8s used positive
backpressure EGR valves. I bought the new valve. It's a Wells part number
EGR122, made in the USA, Yes, that's the first thing I checked.

By this time, the car had cooled to the point that I could no longer
obtain a vacuum signal from the EGR solenoid. I attached the replacement
EGR valve, not mounted on the manifold, to a hose that provided a known
vacuum signal. The diaphragm did not actuate, but maybe with this hose, I
did not obtain a good seal where the hose attaches to the EGR. I'd have
to say the results were inconclusive. The price of this EGR valve, higher
than I would have guessed,  makes me wonder if there is more to the valve
than a housing and a diaphragm. Could there be a bimetallic spring inside
the EGR as well? 

Both the new valve and the original have an intentional leak in the
diaphragm when tested, not on the engine, for vacuum. I am guessing that
this leak is shut off or diminished when the EGR valve is at its
operating temperature, and that the only way to test this type of EGR
valve is to mount it on the manifold, attach the hose from the EGR
solenoid, and let the engine get warm. In other words, the only way it
can be tested is under actual running conditions. I believe that if I can
feel the diaphragm retract when the EGR valve is in place on the
manifold, the hose is connected, and the engine is hot, then and only
then will I know that it is working. I was hoping there must be an easier
way to do this, but apparently not.

Here is some other information that may be pertinent. I have not found
any leaks in any vacuuum hoses. All the emission control parts that the
car is supposed to have are installed and, to the best of my knowledge,
functioning. The catalytic converter is original. The air filter is
clean. The fuel filter is less than a year old. The timing is 20 degrees
BTDC, as specified. I am getting no error codes from the CCC ECM. When I
drive the car, there is nothing about its operation that would make me
think there's anything wrong with it, other than a lack of power that I
feel is not to be unexpected in a 4076 pound car with a 307. I have the
Haynes manual for the car and a couple of Motor manuals, but not the GM
factory manual. I am not particularly knowledgeable about emissions
controls. I had heard of EGR valves, but until now, I had not known that
the EGR valve's function was to reduce NOx emissions.

Gas mileage while I was driving around last week was abysmal. I used up
some five gallons of gas in 46 miles of driving. Two-thirds of the
driving was in the city, and one-third was on a parkway with the cruise
control on.

Here are test results from 2002:

================
Test date August 29, 2002
Data are presented in the form (treadmill speed: limit/reading/result)

HC ppm
15 mph: 128/48/pass
25 mph: 124/70/pass

CO %
15 mph: 0.72/0.00/pass
25 mph: 0.79/0.00/pass

NO ppm
15 mph: 919/819/pass
25 mph: 859/444/pass

RPM and dilution are valid.
===========

Yes, the standards were looser in 2002. I note that the CO level at 25
mph is increasing. I don't know when the Commonwealth of Virginia started
testing cars in northern Virginia for NO, but as late as 1997, it was not
part of the test.

My obvious next step is to install the new EGR valve; that and pour in
some more PRO-GARD or Top Engine Cleaner. If I can feel the diaphragm
actuate on a hot engine at high rpm, then I'm going back in and paying
another $28 for another emissions test. I'm not sure how I would go about
checking for a lean mixture. Some sources suggest that a new catalytic
converter may help reduce NOx emissions as well. If I flunk again, I
guess I'll try that next.

As of midnight last night, the plates have expired, so I can't road test
the car with a long trip. I have the car off the street and in a
driveway. For the retest, I'll have to sneak it down to the inspection
station hoping that the city's fine law enforcement personnel happen not
to notice the expired plates. The odds that a Custom Cruiser with a 307
can outrun a Crown Vic with a Police Interceptor package are slim to
none. There's the pesky matter of those radios they have too.

It is possible that a waiver can be obtained for the car, but not before
I can prove that I have spent $620 on repairs. It is not sufficient that
I spend $620 doing my own repairs; only "[r]epair and diagnostic work
performed at a certified Emissions Repair Facility (CRF), by or under the
supervision/approval of a certified Emissions Repair Technician (CRT),
can be applied towards an Emissions Inspection Waiver. Non-certified
repairs will not apply towards an Emissions Inspection Waiver. However,
reapirs by anyone or any facility that are successful and result in a
pass [sic] inspection are acceptable." Thus, a waiver is not an option.
Either the car passes the emissions test, or it has to be moved to
someplace that has no emissions test before it can get the plates
renewed.

You can just feel the happiness, can't you?

Comments are sought from one and all.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:47:06 -0400
From: "vze210y3" <vze210y3@verizon.net>
Subject: Parts Place

Is this place still in business.  'Looked for my catalog, but no luck.  I 
think they're in Chicago.  Contact info and any recent experiences would be 
a big help.  I heard they have a nice repro sport steering wheel.
TIA
Scott
71 442 Conv.
75 Delta 88 Royale 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:52:20 EDT
From: Oldz69442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parts Place

- --part1_c4.14cea473.2e67bab4_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have had a bad experience with them in the past.
I cannot recommend them.

Bob Iozia

- --part1_c4.14cea473.2e67bab4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I have had a bad experience with th=
em in the past.<BR>
I cannot recommend them.<BR>
<BR>
Bob Iozia</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_c4.14cea473.2e67bab4_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:13:34 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

At 06:07 PM 9/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>In 1989, Oldsmobile used a solenoid to control sending a vacuum signal to
>the exhaust gas recirculation valve. With the engine still hot from the
>inspection procedure, and with the vacuum hose that connects the EGR
>solenoid and the EGR valve disconnected at the EGR valve, I measured a
>good 17" vacuum at the hose with my Mityvac hand pump at some substantial
>engine rpm, maybe 2000 rpm, but that's a guess. There are holes in the
>bottom of the EGR housing that allow me to actuate the EGR valve's
>diaphragm by hand; it moves freely when I do that. With the engine hot,
>the vacuum hose reattached to the EGR valve, and the EGR valve mounted on
>the intake manifold, I can feel no movement in the diaphragm when I reach
>under the air cleaner housing and open the throttle by hand.

You have to get above about 1300-1500 rpm. The EGR operates from ported
vacuum which is the spigot underneath the TPS connector on the carb. It
should begin showing vacuum just above 1200 rpm or so but it may vary. It's
enough by 1500 rpm that the EGR will open. The diaphragm was broken on
mine, confirmed by sucking on the hose and not achieving any vacuum.

>I took the EGR valve off the manifold. The passages were sooty, but there
>was no obvious tear in the diaphragm. Applying the Mityvac hand pump to
>the EGR valve, I couldn't make the diaphragm move. Bingo. That must be
>it. I called AutoZone, to see if they had a replacement. They did, and
>then the AutoZone clerk pointed out a footnote in the AutoZone computer
>that notes it is not possible to test the EGR valve with a hand pump.

Baloney; that applies to the positive-types. Yours is the same as my '88
which is a negative type and it DOES actuate if you suck on the spigot.

>The Haynes manual for 1970-1990 full-size Oldsmobiles, Buicks, and Pontiacs
>also says that positive backpressure type EGR valves cannot be checked
>without special tools, and that the appropriate course of action is to
>replace the valve. The part number for the OEM EGR valve on this car is
>17085749. If I am not mistaken, all 1989 Oldsmobile V-8s used positive
>backpressure EGR valves.

That's strange; I'm convinced that 1988-1990 307s had the same EGR valve.
And they DO actuate on negative pressure: i.e., vacuum.

>By this time, the car had cooled to the point that I could no longer
>obtain a vacuum signal from the EGR solenoid. I attached the replacement
>EGR valve, not mounted on the manifold, to a hose that provided a known
>vacuum signal. The diaphragm did not actuate, but maybe with this hose, I
>did not obtain a good seal where the hose attaches to the EGR.

The positive type requires exhaust backpressure to actuate; that's why it
didn't.

>Could there be a bimetallic spring inside the EGR as well?

Dunno, but wouldn't think so. Mine was around $40 back in 2000. They ain't
cheap. Also, you should have gotten washers with it to fit underneath to
control the exhaust "leakage". Mine didn't come with them and not knowing
they were missing, I installed it. At around 1500 rpm, it opens and lets
too much exhaust gas into the intake, causing a lean misfire that continues
up to around 2200 rpm where the air/fuel ratio comes back closer to normal
as the sheer volume of air and fuel "overpower" the EGR.

>Both the new valve and the original have an intentional leak in the
>diaphragm when tested, not on the engine, for vacuum. I am guessing that
>this leak is shut off or diminished when the EGR valve is at its
>operating temperature, and that the only way to test this type of EGR
>valve is to mount it on the manifold, attach the hose from the EGR
>solenoid, and let the engine get warm.

That does sound like you do have a positive type. I'm surprised.

>I believe that if I can feel the diaphragm retract when 
>the EGR valve is in place on the manifold, the hose is 
>connected, and the engine is hot, then and only then will 
>I know that it is working. I was hoping there must be an 
>easier way to do this, but apparently not.

Just install it, and be done with it.

>Here is some other information that may be pertinent. I have not found
>any leaks in any vacuuum hoses.

Measure your vacuum; it should be 20" to 22" in Park/Neutral at idle and
drop to maybe 19" to 19.5" in drive. If you leave the air cleaner thermac
hose disconnected, it will be roughly an inch lower. So if you have a
vacuum gauge in the car and see your vacuum at less than 19" while at a
stop light, you can guess you may have a vacuum leak somewhere... like, you
forgot to reconnect the thermac hose  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

Also, the idle speed will increase to above 600 rpm with the thermac hose
disconnected. The more hoses are disconnected, the higher the computer will
readjust the idle speed. When I had a cracked PCV hose, it would idle at
800 rpm most the time. Later, when I only had three broken smaller hoses,
it idled around 750 rpm, dropping roughly 75-100 rpm as I found and
replaced bad hoses.

Don't assume that because all your vacuum hoses still look new and shiny,
that they are good. They do dry up and crack where they're pushed over
spigots.

 All the emission control parts that the
>car is supposed to have are installed and, to the best of my knowledge,
>functioning.

An easy way to tell this is to check where the air is being sent from the
AIR pump's diverter and switching valves. If there's something awry in the
emissions system, it gets diverted from the cat to the air cleaner; you can
even hear this. It should only go the exhaust manifolds while the engine is
warming up; otherwise, after warmup, it should go to the cat at all times
except during deceleration. If you jog the throttle hard, you'll feel it
momentarily dump into the air cleaner while the engine rpm drops back down.

Also, I would check your AIR system check valves because with all the
idling your folks let the thing do during cold weather, a lot of
condensation probably formed in them as they cooled off. They rust open,
letting hot exhaust gases into the plastic AIR valves which melts those
things. If that should be the case for you, I strongly suggest you simply
get new valves from a Yarde car rather than buying new; new ones will run
you quite a few pretty pennies  ;o((((  In fact, at one time in 2000, new
valves were ONLY available when you bought a new AIR pump. If you have to
replace the one bolted onto the AIR pump, be aware that the angle of the
vacuum spigot is slightly different from those used on the Cutlass/Regal
307s; it aims further toward the passenger side to clear the valve cover
because the G-body 307s used a different AIR pump mounting bracket. The
G-body valve bolting to the AIR pump will hit the valve cover and you
cannot get the vacuum line over the spigot  ;o(

 The catalytic converter is original. The air filter is
>clean. The fuel filter is less than a year old. The timing is 20 degrees
>BTDC, as specified.

Try backing it off to 12 degrees for the test. After you pass, you can bump
it back up. In fact, I have had my EGR disconnected (to prevent that lean
misfire I mentioned earlier) for almost three years, and have been running
24 degrees of timing advance for the last 6 months. I rarely experience any
ping and have NEVER heard any detonation/knocking.

>a lack of power that I feel is not to be unexpected in a 
>4076 pound car with a 307.

4076 pounds?? Try more like 4600 with a 200 lb driver and half a tank  ;o(
Mine has run 18.04 at 74 mph on the drag strip. But it's got 3.23 gears and
that helps a LOT. If you have the typical 2.93 gears, you might consider
swapping in 3.42s or even 3.73s. It won't even drop your mileage more than
maybe 3% to 5%; but you'll be able to scoot across an intersection when the
light turns green before the ricer beside you has released his clutch pedal
 ;o))))

>I have the Haynes manual for the car

The Haynes is really bad.

>and a couple of Motor manuals, but not the GM factory manual.

They're extremely plentiful on xXxx, and you'll notice that 1989 seems to
be a common year for them. In fact, I've only seen one '88 manual and it
went for the astronomical sum of $30. I've never paid more than $18 for any
of mine including shipping; and I have them all from 1979 through 1989
except 1987.

>Gas mileage while I was driving around last week was abysmal. I used up
>some five gallons of gas in 46 miles of driving. Two-thirds of the
>driving was in the city, and one-third was on a parkway with the cruise
>control on.

Sheese, that's BAD. I get maybe 13 to 14 in the coldest weeks of the year
and part of that is from sitting in the parking lot with the heater
running. On the freeway, whether winter or summer, and with up to 800 lbs
besides myself in the car, we'll easily get 19.5 to 20.5. During the summer
commuting to work part-highway/city, I'll get 16 to 17.5 mpg.

>My obvious next step is to install the new EGR valve; that and pour in
>some more PRO-GARD or Top Engine Cleaner.

I would NOT pour any more of that stuff in there; every time you do, you're
washing down the cylinder walls. One can per year is sufficient. Mine had
never had the stuff before I bought it in 2000 and one can was sufficient
to clean it out.

 If I can feel the diaphragm
>actuate on a hot engine at high rpm, then I'm going back in and paying
>another $28 for another emissions test. I'm not sure how I would go about
>checking for a lean mixture. Some sources suggest that a new catalytic
>converter may help reduce NOx emissions as well. If I flunk again, I
>guess I'll try that next.

No. Do you have an old-fashioned dwell meter? If so, hook it up to that
green connector that's lying on the intake manifold in front of the
carburetor and set it on the 6 cylinder (yes, I said six cylinder) setting.
That connector is in parallel with the Mixture Control Solenoid (MCS) and
will monitor the ECM signal to the MCS. It normally reads between 25 and 35
degrees, about in the middle of the scale, when the exhaust is "neutral"
(that is, neither rich nor lean). However, the exhaust from these engines
with three-stage catalytic converters is supposed to be slightly lean. So
the signal to the MCS from the ECM will be slightly higher duty cycle than
in the middle of the scale, or about 35 degrees... normally. If you see
that, THEN I'd say you're probly ready for another test. Also, try sniffing
your exhaust. You can easily tell whether it's rich or lean or neutral. If
it "smells" like you could breath it, then it's at just the right point....
at curb idle, that is. Whether it remains there with the throttle open on
the treadmill is another matter, but it should be.

>The odds that a Custom Cruiser with a 307 can outrun a Crown 
>Vic with a Police Interceptor package are slim to none.

Oh, don't be so sure about that  :o))))  Most of those things can't even
run 16s on the strip  ;o((((

>It is possible that a waiver can be obtained for the car, but not before
>I can prove that I have spent $620 on repairs.

You'll never get there from here. If you consider the shop labor and parts
charges, you just about can't do it  ;o(((((

>Either the car passes the emissions test, or it has to be moved to
>someplace that has no emissions test before it can get the plates
>renewed.

I spent over two months trying to get mine back into shape and past the
emissions tests in Massachusetts and then Connecticut. It all boiled down
to having to understand how the carburetor, itself, actually worked. You
won't have the problem I or most others have: the holes in your throttle
plate for the throttle shaft are undoubtedly still like new and aren't
leaky like we who have 240K mile-old 307s  ;o((((( What that does is to
allow just enough air leakage past the throttle shafts to throw off the
carburetor calibration sufficiently to require it to be completely retuned.

Your engine should NOT be misfiring whatsoever at idle; if it is, then it's
not ready for emissions. Olds 307s, particularly the roller-cammed engines
of 1986-1990, idle more smoothly than a baby's butt  ;o) If yours has a
slight misfire at idle, you very likely either have dirty ignition
components (new cap/rotor/plugs and possibly even wires are one thing to
change) or a small vacuum leak. Again, don't trust the appearance of your
still-new-looking hoses; test each one individually and if all are OK,
check whatever they're plugged into.

You might be slightly innerested in my experiences with my '88 fullsized
wagon as told here:
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/88CapriceWagonProject.htm

(about halfway down the page)

SteveH

P.S. Sign your name, please: everybody likes to have names to connect with
e-mail addies  :o))

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:14:12 -0400
From: "Joe" <w30442@zoominternet.net>
Subject: Re: Parts Place

Yes they are still in business. I just bought a whole bunch of stuff from 
them and had no problems. I am happy with the quality of the items I bought 
too. I had to call them on the phone about some shipping mix ups and they 
were easy to deal with.
Joe
http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com



> Is this place still in business.  'Looked for my catalog, but no luck.  I 
> think they're in Chicago.  Contact info and any recent experiences would 
> be a big help.  I heard they have a nice repro sport steering wheel.
> TIA
> Scott
> 71 442 Conv.
> 75 Delta 88 Royale
>
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:27:59 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Piston Motion

At 12:29 PM 9/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> > I still get acceleration behavior very much different near TDC than it is
> > near BDC. Magnitude differs by a factor of two, for one thing.
>
>
>That's what Smokey Yunick said.

BTW, what equation are you using to calculate this acceleration? I thought 
I saw you calculating it at a series of points, but I would imagine that 
you could construct a differential equation to determine the rate at any 
given point in the crank's rotation. Of course, it's been so long since 
I've had calculus that there's no chance I'd be able to do it, or at least 
not until my daughter starts taking calculus in high-school in about six 
years... :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:50:50 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

Well, well, well, I just went through this very same thing on a friend's
car - a 1990 Custom Cruiser. Failed e-check for NOx. I replaced the EGR
valve with a good one I had that came off my Cadillac EFI manifold (olds
350) which was in mint condition and FUNCTIONAL, and the car passed
emissions with flying colors. Piece of cake, cost: $0.

My favorite way to test an EGR valve is to remove the vacuum hose, compress
the diaphragm all the way, place my thumb over the vacuum nipple and release
the diaphragm. If the diaphragm doesn't move, the valve holds vacuum, and is
good. If not, well, it needs replacement. It IS a vacuum-type valve, it's
just that, as Steve said, exhaust backpressure must be present in order for
the relatively small amount of vacuum to move the valve. Maybe that's why
they call it "positive", I don't know, I can't see any power source under
the hood that would actually provide positive pressure.

Hey, if it keeps giving you trouble, do you want to sell??? I've been
looking for a full-sized wagon to do stints from Ohio to Florida with a full
load of school-related items in the back :) :) :)

Chris


> 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

>1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, VIN 1G3BP81Y6KRxxxxxx, with 26,300
> miles (no, not 126,300 miles) and a 307 (5.0 liter) V-8, has failed two
> emissions tests because of excessive at NOx level at 15 mph on the
> treadmill.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:42 EDT
From: Allen_R_MONROE@umail.umd.edu (am39)
Subject: Re: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

I had an 86 Custom Cruiser with the 307 that I would assume is similar to
yours. Mine had dangerously poor pickup (like a slug) Made alot of noise,
but no go! Anyway, I found that the timming was not set correct. On mine you
must take the computer off-line to set timming. If you don't take the
computer off-line you cannot tell if timming is set correctly.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Brooks <deaconblue1969@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GWB's Cutlass

I've seen the footage and remember it as a '70, '71 or
'72 convertible....or maybe I'm thinking about
KingPin.

- --- "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
wrote:

> Last night, in Lura Bush's speech, she talked about
> GW's first campaign for
> Congress. She stated that she would never forget
> driving around the state in
> George's ****Oldsmobile Cutlass****! I wonder what
> year the Cutlass was?
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:52:07 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Lansing Toro XS f/s $900/BO very rusty

Looks like a parts car to me
Rear seat floor is GONE
frame can't be far behind
XS with the folded glass rear window
Sunroof too
Black
Continental kit with fake "spare" on the decklid?
Lots of missing/ damaged trim, taillites, interior
Split bench seat?
Stock 4B block 403, air cleaner lid off
Recent fuel pump and water pump
OJ transaxle

Took lots of photos
Owner seeking $900/bo
Lansing MI

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:57:06 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: DADY award- Rocky's clutch cylinder

[Dolt] Design of the Year award goes to....
clever Chevy engineers !!!

Who designed the 1990 truck clutch master cylinder such that *when* it 
starts to leaking, the brake fluid dribbles out... not down the firewall 
onto the ground... but down the INSIDE of the firewall, in order to soak the 
carpet all the way to the door!

Modified mounting part now has a slot in it so that any juice that does come 
out the end stands a chance of making it to the outdoors side of the 
firewall.

It's only been a year and 3 months since the new one was installed. If this 
is gonna be a yearly thing, I am not gonna like that.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:00:39 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: '93 Cutlass service - man needs H*lp

My name is Don and I own a 1993 oldsmobile convertible cutlass.  I'm 
searching for parts/service because the frame on my car had some damage done 
to it.  I f you can be of some assistance please contact me at 
donaldellisjr2000@yahoo.com.  I would glady appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Don
==============
Don, that's about 30 years newer than the stuff I usually work with. My 
newest parts car is about 1986. I forwarded this to the 600 or so folks on 
the email list, maybe one of them can assist.  For parts in general, you can 
try a free WANTED ad on 442.com... Hemming's Motor News, of course. National 
Automotive Lines [1-800-428-4300] for std parts like brakes, taillites, etc.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:04:59 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Parts Place

I just bought some battery holdown hardware for the Vista from them, they 
were the only ones who had it.  I got great service and will order from them 
again.


Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:05:53 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 1989 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Fails Emissions for NOx

Just a couple observations here, since you're getting lots of additional 
feedback already:

>Both the new valve and the original have an intentional leak
>in the diaphragm when tested, not on the engine, for vacuum.
>I am guessing that this leak is shut off or diminished when
>the EGR valve is at its operating temperature,

No, this is what's referred to as a ported design of EGR valve, which 
operates on a steady vacuum draw (the "leak" you observe is not high enough 
to prevent the valve from operating when called on). The "leak" is actually 
what allows the valve to close when the solenoid cuts vacuum in the line.

That is, when you "turn off" a vacuum-operated device, you have to do so by 
allowing air in. When the solenoid turns off the vacuum line, the port in 
the EGR valve is what allows air in to close it. This is why you saw that 
warning in the store computer about how it couldn't be tested with a vacuum 
pump: its port will bleed air in faster than the hand pump can extract it. 
If you want to really test its operation, hook it up to a constant vacuum 
draw, such as a line run from the intake manifold of an idling engine, and 
you should see some action.

Two points you might want to check on here:

1) Is the solenoid actually functioning to open vacuum to the EGR at the 
right time(s)? On my '82, the computer does not operate the solenoid until 
several conditions are met, including that the engine is warmed up and 
possibly also depending on what gear it's in; I don't recall for sure. But 
you might want to do a little basic testing on the solenoid to be sure that 
it's functional, and not seized up or burned out. If you want to splurge on 
about 10' of extra vacuum line and a Tee fitting, it shouldn't be too hard 
to tee in the new line on either side of the solenoid, run the other end out 
from under the hood and into the driver's seat (through the side window 
should be okay), and plug into your MityVac, then go for a drive. See if (A) 
the solenoid is getting vacuum on its input side and (B) that it is actually 
switching the vacuum on at its output side at some point in time during your 
drive. For the record, I discovered that my solenoid had quietly died on me; 
a junkyard replacement did the trick.

2) Nowhere do I see a mention of your oxygen sensor; I'm wondering whether a 
replacement might help here.

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5009
*********************************
