
oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, September 29 2004    Volume 01 : Number 5037



OCA judging worked for once?
Customer tact
digital instrument cluster for 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
Re: Sound Deadening Project
Re: OCA judging worked for once?
Specail Tool SP-001: HarBal and Diff Yoke
Recommendation on Engine/Transmission dolly for long-term storage.
Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages
Balancer Bolt Torque
dealing with customers
Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages
RE: Recommendation on Engine/Transmission dolly for long-term storage.
Re:  balancer bolt torque
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
RE: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages
Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages
Re: Better deal than GM parts direct
Re: Customer tact
Re: dealing with customers
balancer bolt torque
Re: dealing with customers
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races
67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?
RE: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?
Re:Olds Eng. Adv.371 rod
67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races
Re: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:00:27 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: OCA judging worked for once?

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:58:50 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re:  Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION
problems

- - --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19899_1096315130_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>I was told right after the Nationals ended that all of the judging sheet 
>information for each car was entered into a computer, then the judging 
>sheets were destroyed.
Uh, I don't think so.  I received mine in the mail about a week and half 
ago.
Didn't even have to ask for it, or pay the postage.
Paul
================
Please, expand on that
printout from the mysterious crashed computer, or the actual handwritten 
sheets that the judges used? What's it look like? How's it FEEL... to GET 
WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND WERE PROMISED?

Please, share!

Chris
517-449-0432

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:11:30 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Customer tact

... Once in a great while, not even that will work, then begins
the painstaking retracing of events that led up to the miss-understanding;
all done with loving tact and graceful charm.
====================
"loving tact and graceful charm"... Kewl, where can I get that? Is it 
costly?



Some times though, the business screws up, and I would hope that they would
have the gonads to fess up and make it right.
Rick Messenger
==============
THAT's what I been telling the OCA officials for oh a month now.
Fess up and make it right.
Quit the lies, confusion, and ass-covering backpedaling.
Man-up and do the Right Thing.
Otherwise, well, that's what small claims court is for.
I want all my travel expenses back, registration fees, etc.
And a written apology.

Chris
517-449-0432

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:15:01 -0500
From: Bob Edwards <bedwards@uark.edu>
Subject: digital instrument cluster for 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL

I post this to solicit advice from those wiser than I in the Oldsmobile 
way. I have just purchased a '89 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL that has a digital 
instrument panel. The Center most portion (speedometer, gas gauge, etc) 
does not work.  Any thoughts on whether it is best to buy one from a 
salvage yard or find a source for a new or rebuilt ?  This car is my baby, 
and I plan on keeping it for many years to come.

Respectfully,
Bob Edwards
Fayetteville, Arkansas

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:42:04 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Sound Deadening Project

Such as?
I already know about B-Quiet's stuff (Brown Bread) and Peel-n-Seal 
(roofing sealer), just checking to see if you know more that I don't 
know about.

krw
On Sep 27, 2004, at 10:55 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 07:18:18 -0400
> From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
> Subject: Re: Sound Deadening Project
>
>> It was well worth the 3 hours and $250 to do it.
>>
>> If you are redoing your interior, or want some sound reduction, 
>> DynaMat
>> is the way to go.
>
> Shudda inquired here first... there are alternatives to Dynamat that 
> are 1/2
> the price.
>
> drc
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:23:02 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: OCA judging worked for once?

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24054_1096395782_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> Please, expand on that 
> printout from the mysterious crashed computer,

No.

> or the actual handwritten 
> sheets that the judges used? What's it look like?

The actual handwritten sheet, I think.  I'd have to look for it.  But I don't think it's a photo copy.  I think it it had the information that I filled out in ink pen.  And it had the judges notations (and erasures) in pencil.

> How's it FEEL... to GET 
> WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND WERE PROMISED? 

Well, I don't know that I was promised anything...

I guess I got more than I paid for, as I was not even expecting to receive my judging sheet.

Paul
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24054_1096395782_0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html><body>
<DIV>&gt; Please, expand on that <BR>&gt; printout from the mysterious crashed computer,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&nbsp;or the actual handwritten <BR>&gt; sheets that the judges used? What's it look like?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The actual handwritten sheet, I think.&nbsp; I'd have to look for it.&nbsp; But I don't think it's a photo copy.&nbsp; I think it it had the information that I filled out in ink pen.&nbsp; And it had the judges notations (and erasures) in pencil.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&nbsp;How's it FEEL... to GET <BR>&gt; WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND WERE PROMISED? <BR></DIV>
<DIV>Well, I don't know that I was promised anything...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I guess I got more than I paid for, as I was not even expecting to receive my judging sheet.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Paul</DIV></body></html>

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24054_1096395782_0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:05:01 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Specail Tool SP-001: HarBal and Diff Yoke

28 Sep 2004  "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
> One small problem with that is that the hole weakens 
> the part, where you most need the strength. 

Don't bolt across thecenter of the damper, use 2 adjacent 
holes on one side.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:25:24 -0400
From: Michael McDonald <McDonald_M@72ho.com>
Subject: Recommendation on Engine/Transmission dolly for long-term storage.

Hello fellow Olds fans,

I looking to purchase an engine / transmission dolly(ies) to 
store my 455 and turbo 400 while doing a frame off 
restoration.  Any recommendations on brand or where to 
purchase? 

Best wishes,
Mike McDonald
McDonald_M@72ho.com

1972 Hurst/Olds sunroof coupe
    "as seen on Speed TV"
   The American Musclecar    
            or
        www.72ho.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:33:31 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages

> hers one for you milton
> the dyna rev idea.
> we talked about this and i even found the guy who did it. every one i
talked to either had no clue
> or just said its not benni ficial to the engine. again youre dyno numbers
do not lie.
> the few guys who remember the concept flat out said it was to increase
strength on the ctr of crank.


Sure, those 2 center counterweights drastically increased the strength of
the crank at the center, but if that's all it did, Crankshaft Company
wouldn't have called the modification Dyna-Rev. Instead, CC may have caled
it "Center-Strength" or some such descriptive terms. Nope, CC meant to boost
revving capability with an internal torque dump, just like on a manual trans
car using a 60 pound flywheel. That's where the word "Dyna" comes from, as
in "dynamic," dynamic revving capability. If one had an automatic car, like
a great many of the drag racers were switching to back then, then no
flywheel. The Dyna-Rev crank substituted in principle for not having a 60
pound flywheel and strengthened the crank at the same time. Where are these
guy's memories, or in other words, how much technology have we forgotten
because we stopped using it for no damn good reason.

I harp on all we've lost and now have to relearn concerning nuclear
propulsion to get to Mars in a reasonable time. We threw away the excellent
ROVER and NERVA nuclear propulsion programs for political reasons in 1970.
Now, we literaly have to start from scratch.


> its not in any way to  be a dig at you but to show the vast kind of
responses i get.


Don't worry about it. I get the exact same unwillingness to listen to and
evaluate new ideas from DOD and NASA. It's actually scary, especially when
one considers our combat warrior's lives could depend on new, advanced
technology, not to mention the lives of NASA astronauts. I get people who
should know because of their job responsibilities but don't know what DOD or
NASA did 10 to 15 years ago or where they're heading now and can't
understand how to fix current and future problems.


> a friend  told me to build it like he did his 454 and when he said to fly
cut the pistons i laughed,
> he asked why. i said olds dont need  high domed to buils compression.


And then tell him that you can build an open combustion chamber 80+ cc
headed Olds engine with straight flattop pistons and get 13-1 compression.
He'll drop his jaw. That's ideal, for there's nothing to shroud the valves
and turbulence and mixing will be total.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:32:11 -0700
From: "John Holt sr" <johnlholtsr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Balancer Bolt Torque

<<snip>>
Balancer Bolt Torque

My El Camino has a 1958 block and there was no hole in the crank for a
damper bolt. Crazy man. Well, 100 miles on the engine and so far the damper
hasn't flown off.

John Nasta
*********************

Thot I should tell about the time my 70 Nova , lost a balancer on an old 
283,,
it was a very expensive lesson learned. When all was said and done, new 
radiator, new battery, new front cover, etc etc, and definetely a new hole 
drilled and tapped in the crank for a bolt to hold the dampener on. 
Apparently one or more of the pulley bolts backed out and caused an 
imbalance that eventuall caused the dampener to exit and scatter (at freeway 
speed of course. )
The machine shop drilled and tapped the hole for 20$, of course the crank 
was out of the engine.



John Holt Sr.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:38:12 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: dealing with customers

Just my 2 cents worth on this. I just recently retired from 20 years as 
a small businessman and I can tell you that good businessmen always 
treat each customer like he their only customer until he starts acting 
like he is your only customer then you don't want him anymore. Just an 
observation. I can tell you since retiring I don't miss dealing with 
customers at all
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:46:29 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages

> i fully understand what youre saying but when i asked the machine shop
about installing the 425 rods
> in my 455 i was handed a  tech article from car craft called trueth about
rod lengths.


Well, all I can say is that Smokey Yunick would have been the type of guy to
hunt down the idiot authur of that article and personally hang him, to
cleanse the gene pool. Smokey said to run the longest rod that will fit the
crankcase of the engine, period. And who had the best winning record?
Smokey. The type of engine does not matter, for the laws of physics
governing how long rods work are universal. Long rods will improve any
engine. Even Volvo proved it and did it on their production engines starting
in the late '80s.


> in the end
> they  said it did not matter,
> what is the deal with that. one note it was  on a chevy, i have seen youre
dyno results .


Because they don't know and won't admit it.


> good grief  just ask any 4 guys how they port olds heads and forget it.
not 1
> person has agreed. but say on the wet flow bench the numbers speak.


Again, it's the same problem, but with heads, one has to be very careful.
It's real easy to misread what the flowbench is telling you. One has to be
real careful. Preferably, the output should be fully instrumented with data
fed into a computer via LabView or some other such program. To really do it
right, a computational fluid dynamics program also needs to be running.

I haven't found anyone to do Olds heads either. To bad AFR won't do custom
work anymore, as if I would ever have the money again.


> it just bothers me that i get mixed answeres about certain area's of the
olds engine.


Too many people simply don't know and won't admit it, so they make up
answers.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:03:06 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Recommendation on Engine/Transmission dolly for long-term storage.

I recommend that you buy 2 used furniture dollies from a moving company for
about $5 to $10 each and use some lumber on the sides to keep the engine
from resting on it's oil pan.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Michael McDonald
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:25 PM
To: Hurst Olds List; Olds 442 List; OLDS List; Olds Rocket Power List
Subject: Recommendation on Engine/Transmission dolly for long-term storage.

Hello fellow Olds fans,

I looking to purchase an engine / transmission dolly(ies) to
store my 455 and turbo 400 while doing a frame off
restoration.  Any recommendations on brand or where to
purchase?

Best wishes,
Mike McDonald
McDonald_M@72ho.com

1972 Hurst/Olds sunroof coupe
    "as seen on Speed TV"
   The American Musclecar
            or
        www.72ho.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:13:08 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re:  balancer bolt torque

> CW: 1965 425s, in my experience, use a puny girly 1/2" NF bolt. Obviously
> inadequate, for every year after that they used the 3/4" NF bolt. The
specs
> on THAT vary, typically "160 min" to "250 min".


Unfortunately, they must have used both. I've got one '64 330 with the 3/4"
bolt, two '65 330s with the 1/2" bolt, and one '65 330 with the 3/4" bolt,
plus another 330 crank that has the 3/4" bolt. Since both '65 330 and 425
engines are lumped together in the torque spec, of 50 fl, what can I say. I
have two 425s that have 3/4" bolts and I know 394s used the 3/4" bolt. The
'64 spec for the 394 was only 100 fl. None of that explains why in '68 the
torque spec was 160, and it jumped to 200-310 11+ years later. Doesn't make
any engineering sense.


> CSM recommends sealant on the blancer ID/ snout OD, to prevent possible
> leaks thru that void. I use a SMALL amount of say Permatex aviation 3H
runny
> goo. Place it at the fwd joint of the snout and the lower timing sprocket
> then install the oil slinger, timing cover, balancer. If the balancer is
> just off, apply sealer to the bottom of the balancer where it meets the
oil
> slinger.


Yeah, I saw that in the text in some listings, but not in others. It wasn't
consistent through either the '64 or '65 manual for each engine type.
Anyway, the presence of the sealer will make it very interesting to remove
the balancer and re-installing the balancer with the old, dried sealer in
there. I don't use the sealer and have never had an oil seep problem.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:18:09 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

> I suppose I won't report you for tool abuse just yet, but don't let me
find
> out you're using a screwdriver for something other than turning screws!


What! You mean I can't punch holes in cans with a screwdriver and a hammer?
I can't use a screwdriver as a chisel anymore?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:23:56 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

You mean I can't jam a big screwdriver through a stuck oil filter to get it
to turn? I actually had to do that once and it worked.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----

> I suppose I won't report you for tool abuse just yet, but don't let me
find
> out you're using a screwdriver for something other than turning screws!


What! You mean I can't punch holes in cans with a screwdriver and a hammer?
I can't use a screwdriver as a chisel anymore?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:39:52 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages

as for the heads mid am sounds knowledgable, but  before i spend a dime im also waiting on dave 
smiths response since he was part of olds r&d program. so when can we see youre book on stands. 
before or after  i waiste my  cash. lol
take care milton , hope things are well with  you and youre wife's health
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages


>> i fully understand what youre saying but when i asked the machine shop
> about installing the 425 rods
>> in my 455 i was handed a  tech article from car craft called trueth about
> rod lengths.
>
>
> Well, all I can say is that Smokey Yunick would have been the type of guy to
> hunt down the idiot authur of that article and personally hang him, to
> cleanse the gene pool. Smokey said to run the longest rod that will fit the
> crankcase of the engine, period. And who had the best winning record?
> Smokey. The type of engine does not matter, for the laws of physics
> governing how long rods work are universal. Long rods will improve any
> engine. Even Volvo proved it and did it on their production engines starting
> in the late '80s.
>
>
>> in the end
>> they  said it did not matter,
>> what is the deal with that. one note it was  on a chevy, i have seen youre
> dyno results .
>
>
> Because they don't know and won't admit it.
>
>
>> good grief  just ask any 4 guys how they port olds heads and forget it.
> not 1
>> person has agreed. but say on the wet flow bench the numbers speak.
>
>
> Again, it's the same problem, but with heads, one has to be very careful.
> It's real easy to misread what the flowbench is telling you. One has to be
> real careful. Preferably, the output should be fully instrumented with data
> fed into a computer via LabView or some other such program. To really do it
> right, a computational fluid dynamics program also needs to be running.
>
> I haven't found anyone to do Olds heads either. To bad AFR won't do custom
> work anymore, as if I would ever have the money again.
>
>
>> it just bothers me that i get mixed answeres about certain area's of the
> olds engine.
>
>
> Too many people simply don't know and won't admit it, so they make up
> answers.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:42:29 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages

the reason i said it that way is because sometimes i come across the wrong way.
 thanks milton
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages


>> hers one for you milton
>> the dyna rev idea.
>> we talked about this and i even found the guy who did it. every one i
> talked to either had no clue
>> or just said its not benni ficial to the engine. again youre dyno numbers
> do not lie.
>> the few guys who remember the concept flat out said it was to increase
> strength on the ctr of crank.
> 
> 
> Sure, those 2 center counterweights drastically increased the strength of
> the crank at the center, but if that's all it did, Crankshaft Company
> wouldn't have called the modification Dyna-Rev. Instead, CC may have caled
> it "Center-Strength" or some such descriptive terms. Nope, CC meant to boost
> revving capability with an internal torque dump, just like on a manual trans
> car using a 60 pound flywheel. That's where the word "Dyna" comes from, as
> in "dynamic," dynamic revving capability. If one had an automatic car, like
> a great many of the drag racers were switching to back then, then no
> flywheel. The Dyna-Rev crank substituted in principle for not having a 60
> pound flywheel and strengthened the crank at the same time. Where are these
> guy's memories, or in other words, how much technology have we forgotten
> because we stopped using it for no damn good reason.
> 
> I harp on all we've lost and now have to relearn concerning nuclear
> propulsion to get to Mars in a reasonable time. We threw away the excellent
> ROVER and NERVA nuclear propulsion programs for political reasons in 1970.
> Now, we literaly have to start from scratch.
> 
> 
>> its not in any way to  be a dig at you but to show the vast kind of
> responses i get.
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it. I get the exact same unwillingness to listen to and
> evaluate new ideas from DOD and NASA. It's actually scary, especially when
> one considers our combat warrior's lives could depend on new, advanced
> technology, not to mention the lives of NASA astronauts. I get people who
> should know because of their job responsibilities but don't know what DOD or
> NASA did 10 to 15 years ago or where they're heading now and can't
> understand how to fix current and future problems.
> 
> 
>> a friend  told me to build it like he did his 454 and when he said to fly
> cut the pistons i laughed,
>> he asked why. i said olds dont need  high domed to buils compression.
> 
> 
> And then tell him that you can build an open combustion chamber 80+ cc
> headed Olds engine with straight flattop pistons and get 13-1 compression.
> He'll drop his jaw. That's ideal, for there's nothing to shroud the valves
> and turbulence and mixing will be total.
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 
> 
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:40:49 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Better deal than GM parts direct

Ya John ; I married her , and for 24 wonderful years, that's all mamma's
gonna know.

Until some one has been in business for themselves, they usually do not
under stand the problems that business owners MUST contend with. I swear it
gets worse every year, and some of these PHDs teaching business ed. ( Piled
Higher and Deeper), tend to make matters worse. Several business folks I
know have to un-train some of the kids coming out of college, just so they
can keep a wise work force. I hate being a turd ( can I say turd while Greg
is gone), to customers and most of the time they don't know it. But if you
do not watch your own "6", no one else will.

Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: Better deal than GM parts direct


> Does she know about Roxanne now? :)
>
> I also have had to become much stricter about returns, especially when A)
I
> had to order the part especially for the customer B) it is a slow mover or
> it's the only time the part has ever been requested and/or C) it's not my
> fault.
>
> I recently had a customer return a set of wheel well moldings for a
Caprice
> because "when the car came out of the paint shop he decided he liked the
way
> it looked without them". I was able to return them but I lost about $15 on
> shipping just because the guy changed his mind. That's exactly the type of
> thing I have had to get tougher about. There are lots of other stories
like
> that but I'll spare you the diatribe.
>
> I don't even want to know the value of the parts here that are returns
that
> I may never sell. I've even tried to put some of them on ebay at cost or
> barely above cost w/o them selling. I've found that ebay is no good for
> high-dollar repro items unless you are practically giving them away.
Anybody
> need a deluxe set of OEM-style window felts for a 1963 Impala convertible?
> How about a header panel for a 67-69 Camaro?
>
> John Nasta
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:45:55 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Customer tact

Hey Chris, any word about the "little do-hickys" we have talked about off
line?  About the "loving tack and graceful charm"......, I have large lips.
Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:11 AM
Subject: Customer tact


> ... Once in a great while, not even that will work, then begins
> the painstaking retracing of events that led up to the miss-understanding;
> all done with loving tact and graceful charm.
> ====================
> "loving tact and graceful charm"... Kewl, where can I get that? Is it
> costly?
>
>
>
> Some times though, the business screws up, and I would hope that they
would
> have the gonads to fess up and make it right.
> Rick Messenger
> ==============
> THAT's what I been telling the OCA officials for oh a month now.
> Fess up and make it right.
> Quit the lies, confusion, and ass-covering backpedaling.
> Man-up and do the Right Thing.
> Otherwise, well, that's what small claims court is for.
> I want all my travel expenses back, registration fees, etc.
> And a written apology.
>
> Chris
> 517-449-0432
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
> School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:58:50 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: dealing with customers

Hey John, I'm curious what you did with the customer who acts like they are
your only customer, then you don't want him anymore. Customers are a pain,
and if I could do without them I would....................., unfortunately I
like to eat, live in a house, and work on my Olds. 98 in my spares.  If you
have retired from small business, you must have some "loving tactful charm"
wisdom to impart, to the rest of us working stiffs. Share the luv.

Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Kelsey" <ribspot@pop4.net>
To: "olds list" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: dealing with customers


> Just my 2 cents worth on this. I just recently retired from 20 years as
> a small businessman and I can tell you that good businessmen always
> treat each customer like he their only customer until he starts acting
> like he is your only customer then you don't want him anymore. Just an
> observation. I can tell you since retiring I don't miss dealing with
> customers at all
> John Kelsey
> Dayton Ohio
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:01:27 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: balancer bolt torque

28 Sep 2004  "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com> writes:

> You mean I can't jam a big screwdriver through a stuck 
> oil filter to get it to turn? 


And what tool are we supposed to use on oil filters, now 
that the standard size I always used seems to be gone?  

Bruce (used a huge channel lock last night) Roe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:34:35 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: dealing with customers

Rick & Roxanne wrote:
> Hey John, I'm curious what you did with the customer who acts like they are
> your only customer, then you don't want him anymore. Customers are a pain,
> and if I could do without them I would....................., unfortunately I
> like to eat, live in a house, and work on my Olds. 98 in my spares.  If you
> have retired from small business, you must have some "loving tactful charm"
> wisdom to impart, to the rest of us working stiffs. Share the luv.
> 
> Rick Messenger
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Kelsey" <ribspot@pop4.net>
> To: "olds list" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:38 PM
> Subject: dealing with customers
> 
> 
> 
>>Just my 2 cents worth on this. I just recently retired from 20 years as
>>a small businessman and I can tell you that good businessmen always
>>treat each customer like he their only customer until he starts acting
>>like he is your only customer then you don't want him anymore. Just an
>>observation. I can tell you since retiring I don't miss dealing with
>>customers at all
>>John Kelsey
>>Dayton Ohio
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Oh the usual things. Slow service no favors and general chilly 
receptions until they get the message. They usually did. And were 
welcomed back into the fold.
JOhn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:32:48 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

At 09:48 AM 9/28/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>I suppose I won't report you for tool abuse just yet, but don't 
>let me find out you're using a screwdriver for something other 
>than turning screws!

....  but... but.... once the new timing set's on, I wanna get the
catalytic converter off. Ordinary chisels are both too wide and too fat.....

;o)))))

Steve "whose tailpipes have lots of screwdriver indentations of various
sorts and loves drinking screwdrivers" H

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:40:07 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

Infinite Space Systems, Inc. wrote:

>>I suppose I won't report you for tool abuse just yet, but don't let me
> 
> find
> 
>>out you're using a screwdriver for something other than turning screws!
> 
> 
> 
> What! You mean I can't punch holes in cans with a screwdriver and a hammer?
> I can't use a screwdriver as a chisel anymore?
> 
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
Tool abuse.
  I took a broken water pump plier back to sears once (these are really 
large channel lock type pliers for any who don't know) They needed to be 
replaced. The clerk took one look at them and said these look like 
someone has been hammering with them. Whats the matter with you what do 
you think rachets are for! We shared a good laugh and he got me new pliers
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:04:13 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races

What tool do you use when your muffler bearings freeze up and the
catastrophic converter goes south?
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races
pics/gregsNW. Tour


> At 09:48 AM 9/28/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >I suppose I won't report you for tool abuse just yet, but don't
> >let me find out you're using a screwdriver for something other
> >than turning screws!
>
> ....  but... but.... once the new timing set's on, I wanna get the
> catalytic converter off. Ordinary chisels are both too wide and too
fat.....
>
> ;o)))))
>
> Steve "whose tailpipes have lots of screwdriver indentations of various
> sorts and loves drinking screwdrivers" H
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:49:31 -0700
From: Greg Tjosvold <tjosvold@polar7.com>
Subject: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?

Hi Gang,

'Newby question of the day. Would the innards of a running 1967 OLDSMOBILE
DELTA 88 (assuming a 425) be of any use in our efforts to eventually put a
455 into our 58 wagon/rod? i.e. How different are the engine in size, motor
mounts and such? Would it be of any use for the design process?
(Measurements, etc.) Anything else on the car that you think would be useful?

The car is going dirt cheap so it got me wondering.

'Best,

Nanook
http://www.car-diaries.com/oldsmotron/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:28:28 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?

Greg Tjosvold <tjosvold@polar7.com> wrote:

>Hi Gang,
eventually put a
>455 into our 58 wagon/rod? i.e. How different are the engine in size, motor
>mounts and such? Would it be of any use for the design process?
>(Measurements, etc.) 
>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Greg
Give me the 425 to put in my Buick powered Racecar so the guys(and Gurls) around here will quit buggin me :).
Then add a dual quad Hemi eating 394 4speed auto(a bolt in No Problem in your Kewl 58 wagon) and come to the strip next spring and we race?
Gee i git all excited just thinkin bouts it.
Must be the full moon?
Wandy the Werewolf.
Maple Syrup B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:37:28 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Re:Olds Eng. Adv.371 rod

Sorry if this was a double post,,first one didnt make it on my end?

"Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com> wrote:

Guess what the rod
>length to stroke ratio is on an Olds 394? 1.9 to 1. (7.0" long rod and
>3.6875" stroke, stock) Excess torque production anyone? Randy, are 371 rods
>the same length as 394 rods? I know the stroke is the same. Randy's 371
>could also be at 1.9 to 1 RL/S. If so, Randy's 371 J-2 really, really needs
>a good set of headers to let her breathe.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com
>
>
>Hello
371 rod center too center is 6.625,,,bore and stroke 4.00"x3.6875,, CR 10-1.
Too bad i missed that FREE 394 last summer, i will find one one day.
My headers will be done this winter,maybe get Offy to pour me alum. intake also if i feelin rich this winter,they still have a tri power mold/371 :)
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:35:58 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?

That car has a Switch Pitch THM400 trans.  Grab it, and 
use it for your 455.  However, it probably is the long tail 
with no speedometer output, which may require a case 
swap to fix.  Bruce Roe

28 Sep 2004  Greg Tjosvold <tjosvold@polar7.com> writes:
> Hi Gang,
> 
> 'Newby question of the day. Would the innards of a running 
> 1967 OLDSMOBILE DELTA 88 (assuming a 425) be of any 
> use in our efforts to eventually put a 455 into our 58 wagon/rod? 
> i.e. How different are the engine in size, motor mounts and
> such? Would it be of any use for the design process?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:15:52 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races

At 08:04 PM 9/28/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>What tool do you use when your muffler bearings freeze up and the
>catastrophic converter goes south?

The 11 lb Frod hammer or sometimes 30" Chr*sler pryer bar usually do the
trick. If I can't find either of those, I've been using the 1/2" ratchet
but now with the new 3/4" slider bar, I'll probly start breaking that in on
the more-stubborn bearings and converters  ;o}

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:32:13 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 67 Olds Delta 88 as a Donor?

Nanook

> 'Newby question of the day. Would the innards of a running 1967 OLDSMOBILE
> DELTA 88 (assuming a 425) be of any use in our efforts to eventually put a
> 455 into our 58 wagon/rod? i.e. How different are the engine in size,
motor
> mounts and such? Would it be of any use for the design process?


Olds big blocks are the same externally. It simply wouldn't matter. However,
if you don't have a 455 now, then seriously consider using the 425. In many
ways, the 425 is the better engine in stock form up to 90%-race modified
form. The only thing a stock 455 has going for it is 30 more cubes, which
only matters when those extra 30 cubes can be used to their full advantage.
The 425 had a forged steel crank and a much better rod length to stroke
ratio. Unless I either have a rare forged steel crank to use in the 455
and/or also using 7" 425 rods in the 455 to make a long rod engine, a 425
engine is probably better. The 45 degree cam bank angle and the possiblity
of a 0.921" lifter diameter doesn't matter one bit on the 425. At least one
of the three other '64-'65 A-bodies I have will eventually get a 425, and
maybe a second one will too. The last one, the '65 F-85 4-door *is* getting
a 403.


> (Measurements, etc.) Anything else on the car that you think would be
useful?


Use your imagination.


> The car is going dirt cheap so it got me wondering.


How cheap is dirt cheap? Like I said, if you don't have a 455 now, and the
deal on the Delta is good enough, use the 425.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5037
*********************************
