
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, October 1 2004       Volume 01 : Number 5042



Re: digital instrument cluster for 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
4.057- what the hell is that?
RE: Hot strippers and such
RE: Hot strippers and such
Re: Sue the OCA?
Re: Hot strippers and such
Re: Hot strippers and such
Re: Hot strippers and such
1968  98 rear
RE: 1968  98 rear
Tricked Out '61 Oldsmobile
Message-ID: <BAY10-F47xnlb23ey8R0001e772@hotmail.com>
RE: Sue the OCA? Get up to speed before you comment!
RE: Sue the OCA?
RE: trunk seal
OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details
OCA Reply?
RE: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details
Re: Sue the OCA?
Re: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:44:28 -0500
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: digital instrument cluster for 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL

The Pick 'N' Pull in my area (Dallas, TX) has at least two of the 
Supremes with the 'full' digital dash (analog style speedo and tach, 
full gauges), and a bunch more with the 'basic' digital dash.
I wouldn't have any problem buying it from them, if I purchased the 
warranty. I would probably take the car to the wrecking yard with the 
gauge cluster loose, so I could swap it out there in the parking lot to 
check it.
I actually have one of those gauge clusters - I'm going to attempt to 
put it in my '70 Cutlass. The only thing I need is a circuit to drive 
the tach, sinc it actully pulls data off of the ALDL stream from the 
ECU, rather than a dedicated tach line. Everything else uses normal 
gauge senders, and a pulse generator for the speedo. I got my cluster 
from eBay, by the way.

krw
On Sep 29, 2004, at 1:31 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:15:01 -0500
> From: Bob Edwards <bedwards@uark.edu>
> Subject: digital instrument cluster for 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL
>
> I post this to solicit advice from those wiser than I in the Oldsmobile
> way. I have just purchased a '89 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL that has a 
> digital
> instrument panel. The Center most portion (speedometer, gas gauge, etc)
> does not work.  Any thoughts on whether it is best to buy one from a
> salvage yard or find a source for a new or rebuilt ?  This car is my 
> baby,
> and I plan on keeping it for many years to come.
>
> Respectfully,
> Bob Edwards
> Fayetteville, Arkansas
>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:59:36 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 4.057- what the hell is that?

Hey, the 403 is as big as possible, and still hold a head 
gasket between the siamezed cylinders.  Biggest small 
block, bigger bore than a Cad 500.  Bruce Roe

30 Sep 2004  "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:

> Where DO they come up with these numbers? Why 3.385" ??
> 
> Then comes the 350... apparently, they stuck with the magic 
> number  "350" plus or minus 1 or 2 CID, across the GM lines. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:51:08 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Hot strippers and such

Casite (a.k.a. generic cheapo) filters are made by Hastings.

John Nasta


- -----Original Message-----

now beat youre head  against the wall and repeat i will only use a/c delco
on my gm car.lol
i used to like hastings but had one clogg, then purilator blew appart,
baldwin was the ticket.
ron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:55:50 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Hot strippers and such

Framaholics anonymous does not ask for last names. Rick or Rick M. would
have been enough. Now you are guilty of T.M.I.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----

I thought about this all last nite, and today. Since I got a good "rubbing"
about my Fram fettish. I should come clean.

My name is Rick Messenger, and I am a Framaholic ;  I feel so much better
now.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:05:25 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Sue the OCA?

I have been reading all of the give and take on the OCA .And I have to say,
sumpin is wong. Either Chris is wrong, or the OCA is. Some one please
correct me but ; I found this list from the OCA site. I assume that most of
you fella's are members of the OCA; because of that assumption, and the fact
that this list comes from the OCA site, I can only assume that they must be
reading what has been written so far on this subj.. I don't know about you
guys, but I am hooked to the list, I love the give and take........., it's
been a real hoot! Having said all of this............, Where is the OCA
rebuttal to what has been written so far? I have not seen it.........., or
have I missed it?

I really hate to see lawyers get involved with any thing. They just heighten
the pissing match to very expensive levels. I have a "what if", what if as
many who are willing from the list, wrote letters to the OCA big whigs in
support of Chris Witts position. I would think that should be worth
something, especially those letters coming from "non-members" (such as
myself), threatening to never join the OCA unless they capitulate and do the
right thing. Seems like a no brainer to me.

But then coming from me that ain't saying much.

Rick Messenger
76 98 Coupe


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Sue the OCA?


> on the note about oca, im not pleased about a few of there so called
rules.  and second they really
> offer spit.
> they axed the ralley 350 club in nj. so now i have to join a club in
another state. and for a olds
> club to be reconized by them they  have to follow oca guid lines, and pay
$. thats what it boils
> down too. funny since oca axed the ralley 350 club we have not had a
sponsored olds day here in
> nj.where is oca.
> i missed the part about not giveing him his score sheet. that is b/s. but
once again they make and
> break the rules its okay. chris you can retaliate by writeing every car
mag, even  write a letter in
> the oca home town paper. be a thorn in there ass.  and by all means do not
expect fair judgement
> next round.
> just my 2 cents
> ron
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michelle Angus" <mangus@neb.rr.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Sue the OCA?
>
>
> > Hey Jack,
> >
> >     If the OCA would just man up and give Chris his score sheet like
> > everybody else got, and quit being so darn pig headed, this wouldn't
> > have to go like this.  I don't believe in grabbing for the lawyers
> > unless nessacary, but if they had just listened and understood in the
> > first place, everyone would be happy, and Chris could make the
> > corrections to his car, and wouldn't feel like he wasted his time and
> > money.
> >     It is the OCA's attitude towards this whole situation that I  find
> > disturbing.
> >
> >    Just my 2cents worth, take it or leave it.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Jack Kopf
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:33 AM
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: RE: Sue the OCA?
> >
> > This is sad.  You voluntarily submit your car to be scrutinized by
> > others.
> > Maybe
> > they're not as well informed, maybe better but without malice. When the
> > judges don't
> > see it your way you want a lawyer?
> >
> > This is the attitude that kills things. Why do something as innocuous as
> > a
> > club meet
> > if you have to watch out for the trial lawyers. So the price for all
> > goes up
> > and the
> > # of events goes down.
> >
> > Get over it.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Christopher Witt
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:35 AM
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: Sue the OCA?
> >
> >
> > Let's hope that they man-up and do the Right Thing
> > I damn well want my 2 cent trophy
> >
> > I mailed the corrections/ rebuttals to their misinformation/ list of
> > demands/ notice of intent to file suit if not resolved to my
> > satisfaction
> > via certified mail on Monday. Just e-mailed the same thing. Went to OCA
> > president, meet organizer [if you can call that "organized"], meet head
> > judge and OCA chief judge [I suspect he got the title "chief" because of
> > the
> > Smoke Signals from burning his wacky terbaccy... 'cause he is the most
> > confused and misinformed of the lot].
> >
> > Should be interesting to see how fast they backpedal and arse-cover now.
> > Circle the wagons!
> >
> > Heck, maybe they WILL get some sense and take care of things properly.
> >
> > If not... see ya in court.
> > I am gonna act just like them... as UN-friendly as I can be. Unless they
> > change course...
> > It's a cryin' shame they have behaved so irresponsibly that it has come
> > to
> > this.
> > Politics. Bah!
> >
> > Chris Witt
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> > FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:09:15 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such

Thanks Mark for your support, I also have hemorrhoids............, man are
they a problem!
Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Mullins" <mark@marineaviation.org>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such


> The first step, is admitting you have a prolem.... LOL
>
> M
>
> At 04:23 PM 9/30/2004 -0700, Rick wrote:
> >My name is Rick Messenger, and I am a Framaholic ;  I feel so much better
> >now.
>
> Mark Mullins
> Tucson, Az
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:11:59 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such

Ron, you been talkin to my wife haven't you. She has been reading all of
this and she said, "See, I know somthing after all about cars". She has
bought AC filters for me many times.

Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such


> now beat youre head  against the wall and repeat i will only use a/c delco
on my gm car.lol
> i used to like hastings but had one clogg, then purilator blew appart,
baldwin was the ticket.
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such
>
>
> >I thought about this all last nite, and today. Since I got a good
"rubbing"
> > about my Fram fettish. I should come clean.
> >
> > My name is Rick Messenger, and I am a Framaholic ;  I feel so much
better
> > now.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:18 PM
> > Subject: RE: Hot strippers and such
> >
> >
> >> That's like going into a hardware store and asking the guy where his
> > "caulk"
> >> is (gotta pronounce it just right). Then tell him you plan to do a lot
of
> >> caulking and you want to you want to make sure you have the right caulk
> > for
> >> the job, etc...
> >>
> >> John Nasta
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> I saw a can of "Fogging Oil" at the store the other day.
> >> Hey, you guys got any FOGGING OIL in here?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:14:46 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Hot strippers and such

Does this mean that as soon as I switch back over to HTML, I am going to get
Framaholics pop up's on my internet explorer.
Dang!

Rick M
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: RE: Hot strippers and such


> Framaholics anonymous does not ask for last names. Rick or Rick M. would
> have been enough. Now you are guilty of T.M.I.
>
> John Nasta
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I thought about this all last nite, and today. Since I got a good
"rubbing"
> about my Fram fettish. I should come clean.
>
> My name is Rick Messenger, and I am a Framaholic ;  I feel so much better
> now.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:49:30 -0400
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: 1968  98 rear

This question is specific to a 1968 Olds 98. Are the ring/pinion and
differential the std GM corporate 12 bolt? Looking to change gears and add a
EATON posi. Seems that the guts of the unit are std GM 12 bolt hardware.
Don't want to get the wrong stuff.

Thanks in advance

Jack

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:58:53 -0400
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: 1968  98 rear

Sorry it is a "O" type.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Jack Kopf
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 1:50 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 1968 98 rear



This question is specific to a 1968 Olds 98. Are the ring/pinion and
differential the std GM corporate 12 bolt? Looking to change gears and add a
EATON posi. Seems that the guts of the unit are std GM 12 bolt hardware.
Don't want to get the wrong stuff.

Thanks in advance

Jack

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 6:50:58 -0400
From: Jay Britt <jbritt67@cox.net>
Subject: Tricked Out '61 Oldsmobile

Here's one more TV show to add to the list of car overhaulin', pimp'n, tricking, etc. At least it's an Olds.

http://www.trickanything.com

Jay

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 2004 05:17:01 -0700
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Message-ID: <BAY10-F47xnlb23ey8R0001e772@hotmail.com>

Subject: RE: Trunk seal...or not...
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:16:23 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:09:17 -0500
From: "Clark, Pat" <PClark@Ignition.com>
Subject: RE: Trunk seal...or not...

I have the exact same issue on my 69 442. Doesn't seem to hurt it.
If you can figger out a way to fix it, let me know.

Pat Clark
IGNITION INC.
P 972-516-8700
F 972-516-8690
=====================
Hey Pat, need an ignition fault generator? I have a nice used one...

anyhow... if the decklid is not sealing at the rear, how about adjusting the 
latch downward a bit? If you go too far, then it will be hard to shut, gotta 
slam it, but in between should be Just Right.

PS for finding leaks and stuff, light works great. Wait until sun goes down, 
or work in dark building. Put light such as halogen work light on other side 
of the panels, holes will be quite obvious if not around a corner. We found 
100's of floor pinholes this way and 3 huge holes in the rear wheel house 
liner on the 1966 442 restoration. Chasing the floor holes proved a 
neverending task, and seam sealer was the only way to close them all.

Chris Witt

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:27:46 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Sue the OCA? Get up to speed before you comment!

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:33:28 -0400
From: Jack Kopf <jkopf@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Sue the OCA?

This is sad.  You voluntarily submit your car to be scrutinized by others.
Maybe they're not as well informed, maybe better but without malice. When 
the
judges don't see it your way you want a lawyer?
==================
You, sir, are speaking out of ignorance. Since you obviously do not have a 
grasp of the Whole Scenario here, perhaps you should refrain from 
commenting. Maybe I should post the whole 12-page reaming here to get you up 
to speed. On the other hand, handling things which you are confused and 
clueless about well qualifies you.... for a top level post in the OCA. :-)  
Congratulations, Head Judge Kopf!



This is the attitude that kills things. Why do something as innocuous as a 
club meet if you have to watch out for the trial lawyers. So the price for 
all goes up and the # of events goes down.
Get over it.
Jack
==============
Yeah, I hear that. I was rather depressed, and ready to have the "by the 
pound sale" and just scrap all the Olds pieces and to hell you guys who need 
items for restorations anyhow. If it's not ANY FUN WHATSOEVER, then why do 
it? The OCA jerkoffs have done NOTHING in their power to HELP and EVERYTHING 
they can to SCREW. When folks behave like that, and lie and cheat and break 
promises, and do not live up to their word.... then, yeah, somebody has to 
call them on the carpet. Since they seem to think the "ignore it and it'll 
go away" aproach might work, we'll see what a court judgement does for that 
attitude.
.
I will glady "get over it", sir...
Just as soon as they start being NICE
.
I mean, c'mon, they enticed me to haul my UNEMPLOYED ass to MN by ASSuring 
me that the registration was OK, then they JUDGED THE CAR, and THEN LATER 
decided that they were just not gonna share the results with me. Even though 
they have the results, and it's no skin off their nose. AND it all stems 
from THEIR mistake. WTF is up with that?

I tried the friendly approach time and again. They refused to cooperate, 
they denied responsibility, and lied.

So, the gloves are off now.
CBWitt

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:41:14 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Sue the OCA?

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:25:00 -0500
From: "Michelle Angus" <mangus@neb.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Sue the OCA?

Hey Jack,
     If the OCA would just man up and give Chris his score sheet like
everybody else got, and quit being so darn pig headed, this wouldn't
have to go like this.  I don't believe in grabbing for the lawyers
unless nessacary, but if they had just listened and understood in the
first place, everyone would be happy, and Chris could make the
corrections to his car, and wouldn't feel like he wasted his time and
money.
     It is the OCA's attitude towards this whole situation that I  find
disturbing.
    Just my 2cents worth, take it or leave it.
John
=================
EXACTLY, and thanks for the support.
THEY made the mistake which they later used to "invalidate" the 
registration.
???????
Why would they choose to screw ANYONE, let alone one who has done so much 
FOR THE HOBBY, in that manner?  Why not, even if they want to insist that 
the car gets no official recognition, provide me with the results, on the 
sly, and I would go away less happy but quietly pacified? That's nothing 
short of stupid.

Disturbing is a very good word for it.

CBWitt

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:55:41 -0500 
From: "Clark, Pat" <PClark@Ignition.com>
Subject: RE: trunk seal

Chris,

Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass. Being a ME not an EE,
electricity is off-limits (can't torque it or break it, it don't exist!)

As for the latch adjustment, I have it down as much as I can and still get
the trunk to latch with a "light slam". I think it is just a manufacture
issue. Or maybe years of putting stuff in and out of the trunk and banging
it on the seal lip has slowly bent it downward?


Pat Clark
IGNITION INC.
P 972-516-8700
F 972-516-8690


- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Witt [mailto:rocketscience442@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:17 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 


Subject: RE: Trunk seal...or not...
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:16:23 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:09:17 -0500
From: "Clark, Pat" <PClark@Ignition.com>
Subject: RE: Trunk seal...or not...

I have the exact same issue on my 69 442. Doesn't seem to hurt it.
If you can figger out a way to fix it, let me know.

Pat Clark
IGNITION INC.
P 972-516-8700
F 972-516-8690
=====================
Hey Pat, need an ignition fault generator? I have a nice used one...

anyhow... if the decklid is not sealing at the rear, how about adjusting the

latch downward a bit? If you go too far, then it will be hard to shut, gotta

slam it, but in between should be Just Right.

PS for finding leaks and stuff, light works great. Wait until sun goes down,

or work in dark building. Put light such as halogen work light on other side

of the panels, holes will be quite obvious if not around a corner. We found 
100's of floor pinholes this way and 3 huge holes in the rear wheel house 
liner on the 1966 442 restoration. Chasing the floor holes proved a 
neverending task, and seam sealer was the only way to close them all.

Chris Witt

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement



******************************************************
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:15:03 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details

Just so's we're on the same page here...

here's the Whole Story from my perspective.
Well, this is the Short Version....
The footnotes constitute another 10 pages of detailed info.
Available upon request.
CBWitt
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
9/27/04
To:
Steve Mestad
Bill Blood
Pat Yancey
Bob Casey

Since it appears that friendly [footnote 001] requests fall on deaf ears, I 
must re-state my position, rather more assertively. Please pay special 
attention to the last part just before the footnotes. I am sorry that it has 
come to this, but repeated simple requests have led nowhere. If you think 
that ignoring this matter will make it go away, let me assure you that is 
not the case. This notice is being sent by Registered US Mail to any of the 
above persons for whom I have a US street address, and also via email to 
all.
============== What DID Happen ====================
Summary of the scenario:
I registered a car [footnote 002] for judging at the 2004 OCA National Meet 
in Bloomington, MN. Because I was short of time and money at the time, I had 
my friend Joe Murphy call in the inquiry [to check if it was still possible 
to register] 7/23/04, and proceed with the registration if at all possible. 
Later in the day, I phoned Mr. Mestad to inquire whether Joe had made the 
inquiry and set up the payment for my registration. I was assured over the 
phone by Mr. Mestad that he had indeed been contacted by Mr. Murphy, and 
furthermore that, as long as the registration forms and payment were 
promptly mailed, there would not be a problem. Indeed, a short time later, 
we received a confirmation letter [see attached] stating that the car was 
registered to be judged.
I am quite certain I made it clear to Mr. Mestad in that phone conversation 
that the car was my presentation, and that my OCA number was to be used, but 
I simply needed Mr. Murphy to send in the money, because I was short of time 
and money that day.  [see Footnote 003 for all the details]

Based ENTIRELY on that verbal (and subsequently written) agreement that the 
car would be judged properly, I undertook the journey, at considerable 
hardship and expense, to transport the car and ourselves to the 2004 OCA 
meet in MN. [Footnote 004]

Thursday 8/26/04: We arrived at the event area, proceeded to the check-in 
area, and were presented with the usual paraphernalia handed out to folks 
showing a car, including a JUDGING SHEET. It was found under the name of Joe 
Murphy. Not a problem. We then washed the car, and placed it on the 
appropriate spot in the show area. At no time was there any indication that 
there might be a problem with the car’s judging registration. I believe it 
was this night when the judges came along and placed a sticker on the car’s 
windshield, indicating that it was among those to be judged, not just here 
for show only.

Friday 8/27/04: Detailed the car, waited for judges to arrive. Judges spent 
an estimated 30-45 minutes going over it. At no time was there any 
indication that the car was not being judged in the usual manner, for any 
reason.

Saturday, 8/28: First indication of any problem was when, upon going to see 
what award the car had won, we found that it was not on the list, under any 
name. I was told that if the car was judged, the registrant would be getting 
at least something, yet no one could explain why this car was not on the 
list. We decided to pack up and head home. I left a phone number for the 
folks in charge to contact me when they figured out what the problem was.
I was soon thereafter approached by Mr. Blood in the parking lot/ swap meet 
area. He proceeded to inform me that the car was not on the list… because 
its registration was somehow incorrect, and that, therefore, no judging 
results would be made available to me. [Footnotes 005, 001].
That sums up the scenario to this date, except for a few inquiries by e-mail 
as to when I would be getting the judging results, and when the 
“registration problem” would be set right.

============== What Should Have Happened ====================
The officials in charge should have done as they said they would, as the 
paperwork indicates that they did- compose a proper registration out of the 
names and materials submitted. Then, after the judging was complete, provide 
the appropriate “place” award, and send the results to the entrant.
In the event that any sort of “problem” was deemed to exist, the officials 
should have NOTIFIED ME IMMEDIATELY and made every attempt to correct the 
problem to the satisfaction of all involved. That is, to make the 
registration whole and correct, based on the information submitted.
Any such “problem” with the registration should have been resolved, in a 
friendly manner, as soon as it was deemed to exist. I had proof of 
pre-registration; surely the organization that runs the affair also had such 
records. Included in the friendly aspect of resolving the problem would have 
been to share the blame. Is there a scenario in which a problem occurs, and 
only one party bears all the blame?
I know there is a method to resolve such issues- see Footnote 006. I do not 
understand why you would choose instead to make life as difficult and as 
little fun as possible for all concerned. No one ever even bothered to find 
out if maybe this was my first experience with the judging process, or if 
there’s maybe any other reason why maybe I should get some slack. [footnote 
007]

============== What Should Happen Now ====================
Attached/ included are the photos/ copies and such that show that the car 
was indeed registered to be judged.
I initially wanted no more, nor less, than what we agreed to initially- a 
proper judging of the car and the accompanying results to assist in making 
the car more nearly correct. Now that you have elected to drag this out to 
such an extent, and make me round up the proof of registration and such, my 
position is as follows:
1) I expect you to each, and jointly, explain the following details:
1a) Exactly when the registration went from correct to “invalid”?
1b) Who made the decision to “invalidate” the car’s registration, rather 
than to simply use the established procedures to fix the problem, and 
observe the OCA number that was used to register it?
1c) At what point in the process was that decision made?
1d) Who else was made aware of that decision, and, more importantly,
1e) why was I not made aware of it? What possible excuse could you have for 
that action, or lack thereof?

2) Fix the problem, and make it right.
2a) I expect the registration to be officially recognized as valid, as the 
accompanying paperwork proves. [Footnote 008]
2b) The judging score sheet will be provided to me, so that I will know what 
areas of the car need improvement. [footnote 009].
2b) Any award the car should have gotten will also be made, and
2c) such award shall be noted in any story concerning the event published in 
Journey With Olds. If necessary, a correction/ addition will be thus 
published..

3) I expect a written apology for your asinine behavior.

============== If That Does Not Happen ====================
If the response to this letter is not satisfactory, then you can take this 
letter as your notice of my intent to file suit against the OCA and the 
individuals involved. In addition to the points set forth above, and others 
as develop in further consultations with counsel, I will be asking for you 
to reimburse me for all expenses associated with the travel to and from the 
meet, and compensation for the now considerable amount of time and effort to 
set forth my case. Of course, court costs and attorney fees, and any other 
associated expenses. The damage to my reputation [footnote 4] might be tough 
to put a monetary value on, but it’s not going to be zero, nor a negligible 
amount, I assure you. I must have an entire day’s worth of time just into 
composing this letter and setting forth all the facts and correcting all 
your misunderstandings.
I have repeatedly asked you folks NOT to go that route, but to instead 
simply fix the problem and live up to your word. Since that has gotten me 
nothing but cold indifference, I am forced to resort to stronger measures.   
Again, I reiterate that I would MUCH prefer to resolve this matter in a 
friendly matter. However, not one of you has thus far shown any propensity 
to friendliness whatsoever. Unless I start hearing things like “Looks like 
we made a mistake, how can we make it up to you?” or the like, this is just 
going to get uglier. I am ready to drop the weapons and proceed in a much 
more friendly manner, but you are going to have to admit to your share of 
the blame, and then use your resources to fix the problem as best it can be. 
This amounts to no more than asking you to live up to our agreement. I am 
calling upon each of you, as a man of your word, to do so at once.
Otherwise, I intend to hold you, individually and as a group, to the 
agreement, no matter what it requires for you to do so [Footnote 009], and 
also hold you responsible for the expenses I incurred as a direct result of 
the agreement we made to have this car judged. Your actions (or lack 
thereof) have consequences, and you must bear the responsibility for your 
actions. The more you folks deny your responsibility, the more determined I 
am to see to it that you do the Right Thing, by any means necessary. Many 
have urged me to simply not renew the OCA registration. I would prefer not 
to do that, but I can hardly in good conscience tell new recruits that 
joining the OCA is a Good Idea, if the officials are going to run the club 
in a manner designed to minimize the fun factor for participants.

It’s time to put away the Bag of Excuses, gentlemen, and start dipping into 
your Basket of Results. [Footnote 010] You have the power to make this 
right. You must do so, or face the consequences. I shall allot 30 days from 
the time you received this letter via US Mail.

Chris Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing, MI 48911

517-449-0432 cell (best weekends or 9-11pm MI time)
517-882-9747 home (leave msg)
RocketScience442@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:16:58 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: OCA Reply?

Oh, PS, the OCA reply so far?

Squat

Busy circling the wagons, no doubt.

The snail mail version went out 9/27, the email version oh 9/29 I believe.

CBWitt

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:31:30 -0400
From: "Carly Simon" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details

Repeat after me:

I haven't got time for the pain

I haven't got room for the pain

I haven't the need for the pain

Your pal,
Carly

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:35:16 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Sue the OCA?

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14350_1096637716_0
Content-Type: text/plain
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> they axed the ralley 350 club in nj.

Axed?  It is my understanding that the Rallye 350 club folded due to financial problems (and possibly some litigation) related to the '00 National Meet they hosted.  I could be wrong on that.

> and for a olds 
> club to be reconized by them they have to follow oca guid lines,

I believe chapters of any National organization will have guidelines to follow.  OCA provides insurance coverage for events to compliant chapters at no cost, as well as advertising the events in JWO free of charge.  In exchange for that, they require that all chapter members be OCA members.  Our chapter checked into getting our own insurance coverage.  Having all OCA members is a small price to pay as opposed to getting our own coverage and paying for it.  I am unaware of any other guidelines that we must follow.

> and pay $. 

Simply not true.  Our chapter does not pay $ to the OCA.  As Chapter Treasurer I know that for a fact.  I haven't paid a dime to the OCA in the 10 years I've held the position.

Paul 
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14350_1096637716_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html><body>
<DIV>&gt; they axed the ralley 350 club in nj.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Axed?&nbsp; It is my&nbsp;understanding that the Rallye 350 club folded due to financial problems (and possibly some litigation) related to the '00 National&nbsp;Meet they hosted.&nbsp; I could be wrong on that.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; and for a olds <BR>&gt; club to be reconized by them they have to follow oca guid lines,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I believe chapters of any National organization will have guidelines to follow.&nbsp; OCA provides insurance coverage&nbsp;for events&nbsp;to compliant chapters at no cost, as well as advertising the events in JWO free of charge.&nbsp; In exchange for that, they require that all chapter members be OCA members.&nbsp; Our chapter checked into getting our own&nbsp;insurance coverage.&nbsp; Having all OCA members is a small price to pay as opposed to getting&nbsp;our own coverage and paying for it.&nbsp; I am unaware of any other guidelines that we&nbsp;must follow.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&nbsp;and pay $. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Simply not true.&nbsp; Our chapter does not pay $ to the OCA.&nbsp; As Chapter Treasurer I know that for a fact.&nbsp; I haven't paid a dime to the OCA in the 10 years I've held the position.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Paul&nbsp;</DIV></body></html>

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14350_1096637716_0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:43:25 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details

Chris,

I read all the emails on this, including the short version you just sent
Let me say Chris, I think you are a good guy and have helped a lot of people
on the list with parts and advice. Your valuable contributions do not go
unnoticed.  Having said that, I say to you as a fellow Olds patriot and fan,
are you certain that bringing this to court is going to do anything?  I am
not a lawyer, but this looks a lot like a club dispute.  Does a court have
jurisdiction in a club dispute of this type?  I'll elaborate.

One of the first things the court is going to want to know, is, was a
contract in place between you and the OCA.  If so, it will need to be
presented.  It sounds like, at best, you had a verbal agreement.  I question
how much time will the state want to spend on that?

Also, you indicate there were hardships you endured in going to the show to
be judged.  In your earlier email, you said, "they enticed me to haul my
UNEMPLOYED ass to MN by ASSuring me that the registration was OK, then they
JUDGED THE CAR, and THEN LATER decided that they were just not gonna share
the results with me."  I suspect the court will question how this form of
"enticement" correlates to an illegal act, or contractual breach, based on
presented facts and legal precedent.

Was the OCA in contractual breach when you made the choice, while
unemployed, to travel to MN?  While this was not easy, monetarily or
otherwise, you made the choice.  Maybe not the best choice, but you did it.
In court, one will always have to be responsible for the choices they made.
The OCA in no way forced you to comply with appearing at the car show.  What
illegal act or contractual breach will allow a court to find the OCA
responsible for your trip expenses or other time spent?  Do you have form
which you signed stating that you will bring your car, and for your fee, the
OCA will judge it and provide you a judging sheet back?  By your own photo
evidence, your car was in fact judged so they even delivered on that end.
But where in the contract, if there was one, did the OCA take on the
obligation to provide you a judging sheet?  Where exactly did the OCA not
deliver on what they stated in the contract?

Also, below, you state that, "Because I was short of time and money at the
time, I had my friend Joe Murphy call in the inquiry [to check if it was
still possible
 to register] 7/23/04, and proceed with the registration if at all possible.
Further, you said, "I am quite certain I made it clear to Mr. Mestad in that
phone conversation that the car was my presentation, and that my OCA number
was to be used, but I simply needed Mr. Murphy to send in the money, because
I was short of time and money that day."  It seems, from the initial
registration, we did not follow the proper procedure outlined by the OCA for
vehicle registration.  Many people have a shortage of time and money, but
they found a way to properly register their car in their name, with their
OCA number.  It is unfortunate that the registration problem was not
properly corrected, but in the future, I bet if you want your car properly
judged, you will do it right from the start regardless of time and money
shortages.  And if the OCA was in fact, responsible to provide you a judging
sheet, how will the failure to properly register your car in your name and
OCA number on the registration form affect the OCA's responsibility to
provide that judging sheet back to you?

In addition, when I read your letter, I see phrases, such as, "Because I was
short of time and money at the time," and "because I was short of time
and money that day" but then read later you state to the OCA to "It's time
to put away the Bag of Excuses."  How will this help the OCA decide to help
you and give you that judging sheet, rather than letting you take this to
court?

I suspect the court will find that you joined a club, you got your JWO
publication, and your OCA # is valid in good standing. Any person is free to
join a club or not to do so. And that would be that.  I think it would be
great if the OCA provided you the judging sheet.  But are they legally bound
to do so as stated in a signed contract?

However it goes, I wish you the best of luck, please do not take this as a
flame war, or personal attack.  Let us know what happens.

Rob
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: OCA Breach of Contract- Short Version of the Details


> Just so's we're on the same page here...
>
> here's the Whole Story from my perspective.
> Well, this is the Short Version....
> The footnotes constitute another 10 pages of detailed info.
> Available upon request.
> CBWitt

[snipped for digesters]

> It's time to put away the Bag of Excuses, gentlemen, and start dipping
into
> your Basket of Results. [Footnote 010] You have the power to make this
> right. You must do so, or face the consequences. I shall allot 30 days
from
> the time you received this letter via US Mail.
>
> Chris Witt
> *the* Rocket Scientist

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5042
*********************************
