
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, October 17 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5061



Re: Rear Disc Brakes
Re: 70 F-85 passes IL emissions
RE: which MSD distributor?/Vac Ad.
RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
Top Ten Signs your over doing the burnout
switching to manual transmission?
Oversize exhasut trumpets needed
ATTN Dennis Baker
70 F-85 passes IL emissions
Non Olds - Help wanted Chevy truck wheels
Re: switching to manual transmission?
Need opinion on Engine Wiring Harness
Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem
Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem
Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem
non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?
Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem
Re: switching to manual transmission?
Re: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?
museum visit
Re: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?
Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:31:36 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Disc Brakes

simply because most people never use it. if the brakes were flushed yearly and park brake used 
regularly. they would work just fine
Ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Rear Disc Brakes


>> On the 79-85 Toro/Riv/Eldo cars were built with either
>> drum or disk rear brakes.  I have owned both.  For
>> street use, the drums were perfectly OK.  The disks
>> were a service headache, because of the emergency
>> brake operation.  Also they were much more prone to
>> lock up.  My 79 Eldo was so bad, it was not safe to
>> drive in slippery weather.  I had to add a proportioning
>> valve, which was adjusted nearly to the end of its
>> range to get the car to stop straight.  I seriously
>> considered converting it to rear drums, and still might.
>
> --------------------------
>
> I agree with Bruce.  The GM rear disc have a really lousy parking brake
> design that causes lots of service headaches.  On the E cars, the Toro and
> Riv had rear drums standard from, '79-'81.  The discs were optional.  From
> '82-'85 the four wheel disc system was standard. Cadillac never offered the
> disc / drum system on the Eldo or Seville.  They did get the proportioning
> straightened out by '84.
>
> Autospecialty / Kelsey-Hayes makes a nice remanufactured loaded caliper for
> these.  If I were converting a RWD car to rear discs using salvage yard
> parts from a RWD Cadillac or T/A, I'd at least spring for a good set of
> rebuilt loaded calipers.
>
> Milt, what kind of parking brake provision does the Hurst / Airheart system
> use?
>
> Regards,
> Fred
>
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:59:20 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: 70 F-85 passes IL emissions

At 12:11 PM 10/16/04 -0700, Chris wrote:
<snip>
>to worry about.  See, I had/have until 10/20 to get
>both cars tested before my license gets suspended. 
>(rant mode on) See, never mind my 99 GMC Sierra past
>emissions with flying colors many months ago, they
>just suspend your license not the plates.  
<snip>
>one night.  I get pulled over, I'm screwed because
>they suspended my license.  NOT THE PLATES!!!!!  

I'll have to admit that this actually threw me for a loop.... and judging
that you repeated it more than once, I'm guessing it's not a typo....

Thus, one of the more stupid laws that I can think of in existence.  And I
mean, given the sheer number of stupid laws out there . . the law has to be
WAY up there on the stupometron meter to be officially called "stupid"...

I'm surprised that one hasn't had people nearly lynching the gov't offices
to get it changed.

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:01:34 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE: which MSD distributor?/Vac Ad.

John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net> wrote:

>I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice 
>on whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the 
>street, or do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with 
>vacuum advance, too? 
>>
Hello
With the stock J2 cam and exhaust manifolds the 371 did her best times with Vac advance.
Its on paper/time slips and log book. 
I could not get her times back until i went back to useing the vac advance.
She was makeing vacuum at the light off the line, and at the top of the 1/4 mile enough for the vac advance to help alot.
The 1/4 mile tells all in any car.
Now with a big cam like in my other car (THUMPA THUMPA THUMPA) There would be not much vac. due to the overlap of the valves,headers intake/heads ect....so only the mech advance is used.
Just wanted to throw in .02.
Good luck!
Randy H.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:34:10 -0700
From: "Albert Penello" <albert@albertpenello.com>
Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door

Did anyone contact the guy to see what the deal was? I'm on the opposite
side of the *planet* from this guy, but I'd like to see if someone got it!

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:51:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door

Not on the list, respond to Tony.DosSantos@occ.treas.gov if you can
assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:   "DosSantos, Tony" <Tony.DosSantos@occ.treas.gov>
Subject: F 85 Deluxe Sedan

Gentlemen: I have a 1965 Oldsmobile F85 4 door Sedan, which has been in my
family since new. Unfortunately, I need to dispose of the vehicle. The
thought of turning it over to a salvage yard makes me ill. It was actually
my Mother's car. The car has been stored with a car cover in a garage for
the last 10 years. When it was put in the garage it was in perfect running
order. Unfortunately, I have allowed the car to remain parked in the garage
without ever cranking it over. The engine has 113,000 miles on it and it is
a 330 V8 2 barrel carb. I would like to find someone that may want it for
parts or attempt to turn into their daily driver. All they need to do is
pick it up and take it away.

The car is located in Tarrytown, New York, 28 miles North of New York City
in Westchester County. 

If you know of someone that might be interested I would appreciate it if you
would pass this email on to them.

Thank you.

Tony DosSantos
8saints@mindspring.com
cell phone: 914-420-2334. 

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:07:40 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Top Ten Signs your over doing the burnout

Hello
This made me laugh :)

10. You peel enough rubber off your quarter panels to build a new set of slicks weekly.
9. You are on EPA's "10 worst polluters" list
8. Track crew wears oxygen masks when you pull out of the lanes.
7. Tire store owner has framed picture of you in his office.
6. When you open your window for your ET slip, smoke rolls out of your car like a cheech and chong movie.
5. burn box guy sues you for second hand smoke
4. you get christmas cards from Goodyear.
3. You have to wait 2 minutes for the smoke to clear so you can see the tree
2. You get aroused only when your spouse wears your favorite "Eau de la Tiresmoke" cologne"
and the #1 sign your burnouts are excessive...
John Force walks up to you and says "Man, that was too much smoke!" 

>>
I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning,,smells like Victory!
Good luck!
Randy H. 

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:22:03 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: switching to manual transmission?

Purely in the interest of helping the environment through better gas 
mileage, I am strongly leaning toward changing my 442 over to a 
manual gearbox when I finally get around to putting in the new 
engine. It just doesn't seem right to have a 442 with an automatic, 
and I simply prefer a manual set up anyway.

So, here are some questions.

1. I like the calm highway cruising I currently get with my sub 3:1 
rear ratio. To do this swap without completely blowing the budget 
(and also somewhat for tradition's sake), I'm leaning toward a wide 
ratio Muncie. Given that gearbox's ratios, would keeping my current 
rear work? This is strictly for street use.

2. We get a fair number of used Muncies in the local classifieds. 
Some "rebuilt" some not. Any recommendations on which model to look 
for? Any experience with someone who supplies them rebuilt, off the 
shelf?

3. OPG has a "complete clutch linkage kit" for about $330.
https://www.opgi.com/product.asp?ProdCode=CL111AB&topcatid=240&grpcode=25083&yearrange=&chapterid=263
The Muncie linkage kit is another $225, although it shows years only up to '67.
https://www.opgi.com/product.asp?ProdCode=CHRZ51C&topcatid=240&grpcode=25084&yearrange=&chapterid=263 

Will these cover most of what I need, other than cables, clutch 
parts, and pilot bearing?

4. I had the engine components balanced already. If I take the crank 
back to have them drill it for the pilot bearing, will that affect 
balancing?

Any comments, thoughts, suggestions will be gratefully accepted.

John
68 442 convt.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:19:50 -0400
From: "Kurt Heinrich" <old442@adelphia.net>
Subject: Oversize exhasut trumpets needed

I'm changing my exhaust system over to a 2 1/2 inch system and need to find
trumpets to fit. I can cut off the small end of my existing trumpets and
slip them in the pipe and clamp them for now, but would really like to find
some that are made for 2 1/2 inch applications.  Steve (NUOLDSMAN@aol.com)
gave me a lead, but I haven't received a respone, so if anyone knows where
to find them please let me know.  Thanks.

Kurt Heinrich
OCA# 30442
71 Cutlass Supreme SX Convertible (soon to SOUND like a big block!)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:23:57 -0400
From: "Erwin Mendoza" <olds6887442@hotmail.com>
Subject: ATTN Dennis Baker

Dennis Baker from Clovis, Ca................if you're still on this list and 
see my post.................please E-mail me off list 
olds6887442@hotmail.com Thanks!! :)



Erwin Mendoza
OCA#29671
Bakersfield, Ca
No Oldsmobiles for now :(
mailto:olds6887442@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:14:09 -0600
From: ilo@kwom.com
Subject: 70 F-85 passes IL emissions

Chris,

Better be careful with that suspended license issue, you will
be arrested and handcuffed and taken downtown. You should
have had the option to get your plates suspended instead of
your license. 
Happened to a friend of mine put off the testing and forgot about
it got pulled over and bam without warning got arrested for 
suspended license. They never told him he was suspended! It
is up to you to know if you are or not. Nice! 

You can get a special permit to drive your car to the emmisions
testing facilitie and back that's it, then reaply for your plates.
I just found out that I'm about 25 miles east away from not haveing
to test my cars!! dooh!!!

James Aiello

70 442 (not licensed or reg.)
74 98 (suspended plates)
68 GTO (not licensed or reg.)
96 Ram (this month testing)
91 Accord (who cares!)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:34:15 -0400
From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
Subject: Non Olds - Help wanted Chevy truck wheels

Howdy Gang...

Sorry for the non-olds post.

Does anybody on the list know of a source for one-piece wheels for a 1963
Chevy ton truck (C30)?  It has the standard Chevy big truck pattern but only
has 1/2 inch lugstuds.  This is for my friends' truck.  Only Olds content is
that it has a wrecker bed and has towed my Olds's several times :-)

The factory two-piece wheels have been a pain in the butt ever since he got
the truck.  First he bought a set of new tires ($$$) but we couldn't find
anyone to actually mount them as everyone was confusing them with the
infamous split rings (these are solid rings still a tad on the dangerous
side, but not as bad).  Everyone suggested we find some one-piece wheels for
the truck but they are nowhere to be found.  We finally got them mounted
(this was a little over a year ago) and now yesterdy he just had his first
flat... usually no big deal... we installed the spare... then hit the phone
book.  15 mins. later determined that... again... nobody would touch them.
So we went outside and dismounted it ourselves (about 45 mins. without
proper tools) removed the nail... and replaced the tube... then remounted it
(about another 45 mins.)  Anways... a real aggravation... if anyone knows of
a source for one-piece wheels... let me know.  If we don't find anything...
I guess the next option is to drill the lugstud mounting holes oversize for
the '67 and up style studs.

Thanks,
Clayton Pierce,
1979hurstolds@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:23:10 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: switching to manual transmission?

> Purely in the interest of helping the environment through better gas
mileage,


I have a hunch that you will find no difference in MPG.


> 1. I like the calm highway cruising I currently get with my sub 3:1
> rear ratio. To do this swap without completely blowing the budget
> (and also somewhat for tradition's sake), I'm leaning toward a wide
> ratio Muncie. Given that gearbox's ratios, would keeping my current
> rear work? This is strictly for street use.


A wide ratio Munice has a 2.54 first gear. Currently with the TH400, you
have a 2.5 first gear with 2.2 torque multiplication from the converter. You
will loose the torque multiplication from the converter.


> 2. We get a fair number of used Muncies in the local classifieds.
> Some "rebuilt" some not. Any recommendations on which model to look
> for? Any experience with someone who supplies them rebuilt, off the
> shelf?


Only that you need to stay with a wide ratio to get the deeper first gear.


> 3. OPG has a "complete clutch linkage kit" for about $330.
>
https://www.opgi.com/product.asp?ProdCode=CL111AB&topcatid=240&grpcode=25083
&yearrange=&chapterid=263


That sounds fine.


> The Muncie linkage kit is another $225, although it shows years only up to
'67.
>
https://www.opgi.com/product.asp?ProdCode=CHRZ51C&topcatid=240&grpcode=25084
&yearrange=&chapterid=263


Buy a complete Hurst Competition Plus shifter kit. You will use one for a
Chevelle. If you run into any handle interference, you will be allowed to
swap out the handle for a different one. The handle bolts onto the shifter
mechanism. The swap is simple and easy.


> Will these cover most of what I need, other than cables, clutch
> parts, and pilot bearing?


There's no cables.


> 4. I had the engine components balanced already. If I take the crank
> back to have them drill it for the pilot bearing, will that affect
> balancing?


You ***will have to*** rebalance the engine assembly to the new flywheel, so
worry about the pilot bearing is immaterial.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:22:16 -0700
From: "Jeff and Sherie Stanish" <stanishj@svpal.org>
Subject: Need opinion on Engine Wiring Harness

Has anyone out there bought any repro engine wiring harness??? or
> know someone that did?
>
> What was their experience?
>
> Who did they buy it from??
>
> Other stuff I should know??
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
> 1969 442
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:49:13 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem

Forwarded from the OldsGMail reflector; please reply directly to Jen at
jemignard@mail.comcast.net although I can forward any replies.

Thanks,
SteveH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>X-Sender: jemignard@mail.comcast.net
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1
>Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:30:00 -0500
>To: oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca
>From: Jen Mignard <jemignard@comcast.net>
.......
>Let me just say that they don't make 'em like they used to.  I have a 
>question pertaining to the Intrigue.
>
>My Intrigue is a 2000 with the 3.5 V6 and 50,000 miles. Last November both 
>the battery and the alt. were replaced.  The reason they were replaced was 
>because when it gets 50 degrees or cooler my electrical system 
>flickered.  It seemed to help a bit, but didn't fix the problem.  Last 
>night was the first "cool" night I've been driving and it was about 40 
>degrees out.  When accellerating, the electrical system would flicker and 
>dim until the trans shifted into 4th.  Then it seemed ok.  Turning the heat 
>and blower motor off doesn't effect the problem.  Driving in the summer 
>with the A/C on doesn't do a thing to it.  This problem only happens when 
>its cold out- the colder it is the worse the problem.  The problem 
>continues as long as I drive, regardless of how warm the engine it. The car 
>isn't throwing any codes and there isn't anything else wrong with 
>it.  We're kind of stumped at this point.  Any ideas?
>
>Jen
>00' Intrigue
>78' Cutlass Supreme Brougham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:37:51 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem

> >My Intrigue is a 2000 with the 3.5 V6 and 50,000 miles. Last November
both
> >the battery and the alt. were replaced.  The reason they were replaced
was
> >because when it gets 50 degrees or cooler my electrical system
> >flickered.  It seemed to help a bit, but didn't fix the problem.  Last
> >night was the first "cool" night I've been driving and it was about 40
> >degrees out.  When accellerating, the electrical system would flicker and
> >dim until the trans shifted into 4th.  Then it seemed ok.  Turning the
heat
> >and blower motor off doesn't effect the problem.  Driving in the summer
> >with the A/C on doesn't do a thing to it.  This problem only happens when
> >its cold out- the colder it is the worse the problem.  The problem
> >continues as long as I drive, regardless of how warm the engine it. The
car
> >isn't throwing any codes and there isn't anything else wrong with
> >it.  We're kind of stumped at this point.  Any ideas?


Isn't there an ambient temperature sensor that gives ambient temperature
data to the computer so the correct air/fuel ratio is maintained under all
air density conditions, as affected by temperature? If so, could there be a
short in the sensor system leading back to the computer and the computer is
laying down and affecting the electrical system when it gets the faulty data
link at temperatures below as 50F? Therefore, replace the computer.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:55:19 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem

Not that I am an expert with all the auto computer problems, but I had a
friend that was having a similar problem with his Buick, only his problem
was not only flickering but surging when it got cold. After a new computer
and other peripherals, they narrowed it down to the neg. battery connection,
and found it was corroded, and the computer was "starving" for juice. Milt
is probably right, but to be on the safe side, check that first just to make
sure.
Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Cc: <jemignard@mail.comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem


> > >My Intrigue is a 2000 with the 3.5 V6 and 50,000 miles. Last November
> both
> > >the battery and the alt. were replaced.  The reason they were replaced
> was
> > >because when it gets 50 degrees or cooler my electrical system
> > >flickered.  It seemed to help a bit, but didn't fix the problem.  Last
> > >night was the first "cool" night I've been driving and it was about 40
> > >degrees out.  When accellerating, the electrical system would flicker
and
> > >dim until the trans shifted into 4th.  Then it seemed ok.  Turning the
> heat
> > >and blower motor off doesn't effect the problem.  Driving in the summer
> > >with the A/C on doesn't do a thing to it.  This problem only happens
when
> > >its cold out- the colder it is the worse the problem.  The problem
> > >continues as long as I drive, regardless of how warm the engine it. The
> car
> > >isn't throwing any codes and there isn't anything else wrong with
> > >it.  We're kind of stumped at this point.  Any ideas?
>
>
> Isn't there an ambient temperature sensor that gives ambient temperature
> data to the computer so the correct air/fuel ratio is maintained under all
> air density conditions, as affected by temperature? If so, could there be
a
> short in the sensor system leading back to the computer and the computer
is
> laying down and affecting the electrical system when it gets the faulty
data
> link at temperatures below as 50F? Therefore, replace the computer.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:16:42 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?

Folks,

I've been renting a fair number of cars lately (wonder why that might 
be!) and I always forgo the insurance and other add-ons they try to 
stick you with. However, this last time my wife was going to be doing 
a fair amount of driving, and so I paid the additional $7 or $8 a day 
surcharge for a second driver. Any opinions out there about whether 
or not this is a waste of money?

John
68 442 convt. taking me to work tomorrow - keep your fingers crossed

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:35:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem

This flicker is well-documented with Intrigues with the 3.5. There is no
sure-fire cure. I have followed this for a few years in the forums on
edmunds.com and have also done some web research on it.

There was a complaint filed with the NHTSB which they eventually closed
because they determined it was not a safety issue. There have been several
redesigns of the Intrigue alternator with varying degrees of success. The
problem seems related to cold weather, but not extreme cold. There are
other theories as to the cause. One is that the Intrigue has an electic
air pump for emissions purposes and that when it kicks in that causes the
flicker. Another theory was the 3.5 engine develops certain harmonics at
certain RPMs that causes the alternator to continually reset itself. 

I have seen reports that the negative battery connection needs to be
absolutely pristine to prevent the problem, so that might be worth a try.

I finally experienced it myself for the first time 2 weeks ago. I left my
car at the airport for a week when I went away. The night I came home the
headlights were flickering with a vengeance on the drive back home,
although only when in OD on the highway - if I kicked the trans down and
held the revs up it did not do it. Nor has it done it since. I wonder if
the battery was slightly run-down after sitting for a week and contributed
to the problem. I had the car in for service on Friday and reported the
problem, but they could not find anything wrong. I will check the negative
battery cable connections myself when I get a chance. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:52:26 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: switching to manual transmission?

>  > Purely in the interest of helping the environment through better gas
>mileage,
>
>
>I have a hunch that you will find no difference in MPG.

Darn! There goes that excuse with the wife.

>
>A wide ratio Munice has a 2.54 first gear. Currently with the TH400, you
>have a 2.5 first gear with 2.2 torque multiplication from the converter. You
>will loose the torque multiplication from the converter.

Hmm. I suppose that's one reason folks spend bigger bucks going with 
deeper gears and a five speed.

>
>
>Buy a complete Hurst Competition Plus shifter kit. You will use one for a
>Chevelle. If you run into any handle interference, you will be allowed to
>swap out the handle for a different one. The handle bolts onto the shifter
>mechanism. The swap is simple and easy.

I've seen these at Jegs and the like. Thanks for that tip.

>
>
>>  Will these cover most of what I need, other than cables, clutch
>  > parts, and pilot bearing?
>
>There's no cables.

How about a different speedo cable?

>
>
>>  4. I had the engine components balanced already. If I take the crank
>>  back to have them drill it for the pilot bearing, will that affect
>>  balancing?
>
>
>You ***will have to*** rebalance the engine assembly to the new flywheel, so
>worry about the pilot bearing is immaterial.

I forgot about the flywheel rather than the flexplate. Definitely 
would be time for a rebalancing.

I hadn't mentioned a bellhousing in the parts list, either.

I probably should stick with the auto for this engine, unless I get 
all the parts together faster than I suspect will be the case. It's 
definitely something I want to work toward, though.

Worked a bit more on the current engine today. Dialed in a bit more 
advance and it really feels more responsive than before all the 
headaches. I found a cheaper source for the vacuum MSD distributor 
and have ordered that. If the company is any good, I'll let folks 
know. They had the vac advance unit for about $20 more than others 
were selling just the mechanical unit. I'm a bit suspicious, but it's 
worth a try.

John
68 442 convt.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:00:50 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?

Being that I was once a "Ned Ryerson" (Ins. salesman), the insurance
"add-on" is a push. It all depends on how long your going to have the car,
and if your Auto Insurance policy will cover rentals. Many policies do
(including mine), but make sure that if yours says that you are fully
covered; that it means you are fully covered outside of your state of
residence. Most folks make this honest mistake, and then drive a rental out
of their state of residence, and get in a wreck, only to discover that their
insurance will not cover out of state rental damage claims, if the wreck was
their fault. Lets suppose that yours does cover you, but you have a high
deductible to help lower your monthly ins. bill ; the "add on" coverage can
be purchased to help defray the deductible expense. Then you think, "the add
on should pay for all the expense", what most people do not know is that the
"add on" insurance will check to see, in the event of a mishap, if you carry
a multistate insurance policy that covers rentals; at which they will
"refuse" to pay for the main portion of the expense because there was a
"previous" policy in-force before their's was put into effect. I have seen
this happen many times; remember an insurance company looks out for
themselves first, and their Lawyers 2nd, and the Accountants 3rd, you come
in some where down the line. So it is a push, for me, if I am only going to
have the car a couple of days to maybe a week; pop for the add on insurance.
If you are going to have it for an extended amount of time, and the add-on
bill approaches what your deductible is, then don't buy it. But above all
else, check your auto policy first and find out EXACTLY what it will and
will not cover. Good Luck.
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Livingston" <johnliving@cox.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 4:16 PM
Subject: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?


> Folks,
>
> I've been renting a fair number of cars lately (wonder why that might
> be!) and I always forgo the insurance and other add-ons they try to
> stick you with. However, this last time my wife was going to be doing
> a fair amount of driving, and so I paid the additional $7 or $8 a day
> surcharge for a second driver. Any opinions out there about whether
> or not this is a waste of money?
>
> John
> 68 442 convt. taking me to work tomorrow - keep your fingers crossed
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:05:55 -0400
From: John Kelsey <ribspot@pop4.net>
Subject: museum visit

Hi All
   I just got back from Auburn Indiana. I spent most of the day at the
auburn, cord, duesenberg museum. I highly reccomend it! They have way 
over 100 cars most in perfect condition. They have 2 427 ford cobras
they have a 1966 duesenberg Yes a 1966 one of the original duesenbergs 
offspring decided to go back into the auto manufacturing business and 
built this beautiful car on a chrysler imperial platform then ran out of 
money before any went into production. Olds content. The 1930's cords 
were the last front wheel drive cars in this country until our own 
beloved 66 toronados. If you have the time its worth the trip.
for you toro guys I was interested in looking at the front wheel drive 
set up on the cord. No CV joints they used two back to back u-joints and 
no boots must have had to grease them real often. I imagine the turning
radius most not have been real tight also. Of general olds interest they
talked about a starter system called 'startix" These cars had an on/off 
switch no key to hold in the start position, Just turn it on and press 
in the clutch pedal the startix system would engage the starter. It used 
a signal (voltage) from the generator to determine whether or not the 
engine was running No voltage engine off voltage engine running. One 
other point of interest to me was on the duesenbergs many were 
supercharged. The supercharger was driven by a shaft off of the crank 
and produced a whopping 5 inches of boost!
John Kelsey
Dayton Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:19:56 -0400
From: "Roc88ket" <roc88ket@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: non Olds - rental car 2nd driver surcharge?

I recently asked my insurance agent the same question because I am doing a
lot of traveling. He informed me that rental cars are covered completely
under my auto insurance but rentals of trucks for moving etc, would not be.
I would bet the answer is state specific. I live in Nj.

John
'01 Aurora 4.0
'03 Aurora Final 500

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:21:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Need H*lp w/Intrique Electrical Problem 

Here's the TSB on this subject:

==

Headlamps/Interior Lights Dim Intermittently in Cold Weather (Replace
Generator) #01-06-03-001A - (04/11/2002)
Headlamps/Interior Lights Dim Intermittently in Cold Weather (Replace
Generator)
1999-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue with 3.5L V6 Engine (VIN H - RPO LX5)


This bulletin is being revised to add VIN breakpoints and to include
information on 2001-2002 vehicles which may exhibit a similar condition.
Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-03-001 (Section 06 -
Engine).


Condition

Important
Short term voltage drops (flickers/fluctuations of lights) may occur
whenever high demands are placed on the vehicle's electrical system. This
is considered a normal generator output characteristic and a repair may
not be necessary.

Some owners of the 1999-2001 model year Oldsmobile Intrigue built prior to
VIN breakpoint 1F237068 may comment on an intermittent condition where the
headlamps or interior lights may dim intermittently. This condition may
also be noted in the blower speed slowing or changing pitch
intermittently. Some 2001-2002 model year vehicles built after the VIN
breakpoint may exhibit a similar condition.

Cause
On 1999-2001 vehicles built before the VIN breakpoint, this condition may
be caused by intermittent low voltage. Transient engine vibrations may
induce the generator to experience field discontinuity. This state results
in a voltage spike that causes the voltage regulator to reset. During this
period, the electrical system drops to battery voltage.

On 2001-2002 vehicles built after the VIN breakpoint, the voltage drop may
be due to the electric AIR (Air Injector Reactor) pump cycling. This
electric pump causes a large current draw when it starts.

Important
At no time during the above conditions will the headlamps go out.

Correction
On 1999-2001 vehicles built before the VIN breakpoint, replace the
generator with a revised generator, P/N 10464469, that has circuitry to
inhibit the voltage regulator reset condition. Use the procedure below to
replace the generator. 

On 2001-2002 models built after the VIN breakpoint, do not attempt any
repair to the vehicle. This is a normal condition of the vehicle and does
not indicate the need for service. If the customer requires reassurance
that this is a normal condition, please refer to the AIR pump
demonstration section below. 

Important
2000 model year California and Northeast states emission equipped vehicles
and all 2001 Intrigues are equipped with the electric AIR pump. After
generator replacement, these vehicles may still exhibit very short dips
and/or headlamp dimming due to the AIR pump cycling. Refer to DTC P0410 in
the Engine Controls sub-section. If the generator has been replaced, any
short term headlamp dip should be considered normal. If the customer
returns a vehicle that has been corrected with a generator replacement,
you may reassure the customer by demonstrating the condition. Refer to the
AIR pump demonstration section below.

Open the hood and install fender covers. 
Remove the right front fender brace. 
Disconnect the negative and positive battery cables. 
Remove the underhood electrical center from the strut tower and reposition
the electrical center. 
Remove the engine mount strut bracket. 
Remove the main electrical connector to the cooling fans and the bolts
retaining the cooling fan assembly. 

Important
When removing the battery, do no tip it more than 40 degrees towards its
sides.

Remove the battery hold down bolt and remove the battery. 
Remove the bolts retaining the battery tray and remove the tray. 
Disconnect the IAT air tube. 
Remove the upper air filter housing and filter element. 
Remove the air filter housing assembly screws. Reposition the PCM and
remove the air box. 
Disconnect the cooling fan assembly cross-car wire harness clips and
reposition it, allowing the cooling fans to be lifted out of the vehicle.
Remove the fan assembly. 
The radiator drain will now be accessible from the engine compartment.
Place a catch pan under the vehicle. Drain the coolant. 
Disconnect the electrical connector from generator. 
Reposition the protective boot to access the generator output BAT terminal
nut. 
Remove the generator output BAT terminal nut and reposition the battery
positive lead. 
Remove the serpentine accessory drive belt. 
Remove the bolts from the thermostat housing and remove the housing. 

Important
Even with the radiator drain open and the coolant recovery bottle cap off,
a considerable amount of coolant will remain in the engine block. Place a
large recovery tray under the vehicle at the thermostat location to
capture this additional coolant.
Remove the radiator to thermostat coolant hose. 
Close the radiator drain valve. 
Remove the idler pulley through-bolt. 
Remove the two remaining generator retaining bolts and remove the
generator from the vehicle. 
Clean the mating surface on the engine block 
Install the new generator with the two bolts. 
Install the idler pulley with one bolt. Tighten
Tighten the generator and the idler pulley bolts to 50 Nzm (37 lb ft).

Notice
You must coat the threads of the thermostat housing bolts with Pipe
Sealant, GM P/N 12346004 (in Canadian, P/N 10953480) or the equivalent.
Coolant may walk up the threads creating a coolant leak if the sealer is
not applied. 

Install the thermostat housing and bolts. Inspect the reusable gasket when
reinstalling the housing. If any imperfection is shown on the O-ring
gasket, replace it with a new one. Coat the threads of the bolts with pipe
sealant, GM P/N 12346004 (in Canada, P/N 10953480) or the equivalent.
Tighten
Tighten the thermostat housing bolts to 9 Nzm (80 lb in).
Install the lower radiator hose to the thermostat housing. 
Install the serpentine accessory drive belt. 
Connect the electrical harness to the generator. 
Install the battery positive lead and the nut to the generator. Tighten
Tighten the nut to 20 Nzm (15 lb ft).
Reposition the BAT terminal nut protective boot. 
Install the cooling fans and secure with the bolts. Tighten 
Tighten the radiator bracket bolt to 10 Nzm (89 lb in). 
Tighten the cooling fan shroud bolts to 6 Nzm (53 lb in). 
Connect the cross-car wiring harness clips and attach to the top of the
radiator. Connect one engine cooling fan electrical connector. 
Install the air filter housing assembly and install the PCM to the air
box. 
Install the upper air filter housing and the filter element. 
Install the battery tray and the bolts. 
Install the battery. 
Install the battery hold-down bolt. 
Install the engine mount strut bracket. 
Install the front right fender brace. 
Connect the positive and the negative battery cables. Tighten
Tighten the negative and the positive battery terminal bolts to 15 Nzm (11
lb ft).


Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5061
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