
oldsmobile-digest    Saturday, September 11 2004    Volume 01 : Number 5018



RE: Arggggg Heater control valve again.
Heater control valve again.
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
Re: Arggggg Heater control valve again.
Re: GM HD ignition box connections?
Re: Arggggg Heater control valve again.
MSD and dieseling
Ignition probs2
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
Found Ransom's hat form?
Ignition problem? 65 Cutlass HEI
My N-MT-455 crank core on eVil site $55 or so
Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:56:58 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Arggggg Heater control valve again.

Mike, I had the same problem over 20 years ago on my '70 Supreme - heater valves kept going out and leaking coolant. It's hard for me to believe that this is caused by poor quality parts since the exact same thing happened over a span of 24 years or more. I think it is a design flaw in that the coolant is contained in the valve by the vacuum diaphragm - if the diaphragm ruptures, coolant leaks. If you look at the vacuum controlled heater valves on Chrysler vehicles, you will see that the vacuum diaphragm actuates a lever that then moves an external flow control valve, so if the diaphragm ruptures there is no coolant loss. 20 years ago I looked at adapting the Chrysler design valve to my Cutlass, but for some reason I didn't do it. The easiest (and most rugged) solution I found was to install an inline manual heater valve and completely do away with the vacuum controlled valve. Granted, I have to get under the hood and open or close the valve, but I do that only twice a year - close it for the summer, and then open it again in the fall/winter when it's cool enough to need the heat. But even if the valve is open, there is no heat added to the incoming air unless the Hot/Cold lever is moved to the Hot side. A bonus to the manual heater valve is that is extremely durable - I have had zero manual heater valve failures from about 1985 to present vs. three vacuum heater valve failures from about 1980-1986.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:30:03 -0500
> From: "Mike Schlottman" <mschlott@spe.org>
> Subject: Arggggg Heater control valve again.
> 
> The weather here has been great the last week.  It's been clear and in
> the 60s in the mornings.  I've been driving the W-30 to work the last
> couple of days and it's been a nice treat from my 91 Maxima beater.  I
> got tired of turning the AC on, then getting cold and turning the AC
> off, over and over.  So for the first time in months I slowly 
> moved the
> Hot/Cold lever to the right.  Immediately I smell coolant.  When I get
> to work I find that the heater control valve is leaking internally.
> 
> I have owned 2 different 70 442s since 1997 and neither had a heater
> control valve that lasted more than 6 months.  Granted I am 
> buying cheap
> parts but I can't find good parts.  They all seem to be made 
> by the same
> folks.  Would someone kindly tell me what I'm doing wrong.  
> If it's just
> cheap parts, tell me what to buy and I will buy it.
> 
> 
> AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Mike Schlottman
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> Society of Petroleum Engineers
> 222 Palisades Creek Drive 
> Richardson, TX 75083
> 972-952-9382

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:28:44 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Heater control valve again.

10 Sep 2004  "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com> writes:
> The easiest (and most rugged) solution I found was to install an 
> inline manual heater valve and completely do away with the vacuum 
> controlled valve. Granted, I have to get under the hood and open or 
> close the valve, but I do that only twice a year - close it for the 
> summer, and then open it again in the fall/winter when it's cool 
> enough to need the heat. 

I also converted to an in line valve, otherwise that little 
failure can disable the car.  But mine has a little vacuum 
cylinder on it, so the original function is not lost.  Lots of 
those in the junk yard.   Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:00:17 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:22 AM
Subject: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??


> Do u know of any where i can get headers that will fit my car ?
> will the headers for a 71-76 88 fit my 88 ?
> are the frames the same? thanks


What year Delta 88?????

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:07:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Arggggg Heater control valve again.

> I have owned 2 different 70 442s since 1997 and neither had a heater
> control valve that lasted more than 6 months.  Granted I am buying cheap
> parts but I can't find good parts.


I've had that problem decades ago. It's not new. That's why I throw away the
stock valve and replace it with a manual brass ball valve. I want heat, I
physically turn the valve on. I want no heat, I physically turn the valve
off. That way, I don't have to worry about it.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:29:48 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: GM HD ignition box connections?

> Hi, just a quick Q aout the MSD - if the engine runs after the ignition is
> turned off, there should be diode installed somewhere... anybody remembers
> where to?


Install a 1A 100V diode in the brown wire coming off an internally regulated
alternator or in the wire going to #4 terminal on the external regulator of
an earlier vehicle. Diodes are one way devices. Make sure the diode points
away from the alternator or regulator for electrical flow away from the
alternator or regulator. The wire in question is the one feeding the
charging light on the dash. The I.D. color band on the diode is at the rear,
the input end. The output end has no band.

Check out http://www.msdignition.com/ , tech support, trouble shooting,
engine run-on.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:37:16 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Arggggg Heater control valve again.

> Mike, I had the same problem over 20 years ago on my '70 Supreme - heater
valves kept going out and leaking coolant. It's hard for me to believe that
this is caused by poor quality parts since the exact same thing happened
over a span of 24 years or more. I think it is a design flaw in that the
coolant is contained in the valve by the vacuum diaphragm - if the diaphragm
ruptures, coolant leaks.


And if you're really lucky, engine vacuum will suck anti-freeze into the
combustion chamber where it can turn into goo, if not corrected quick
enough.


> If you look at the vacuum controlled heater valves on Chrysler vehicles,
you will see that the vacuum diaphragm actuates a lever that then moves an
external flow control valve, so if the diaphragm ruptures there is no
coolant loss.


Absolutely correct.


> 20 years ago I looked at adapting the Chrysler design valve to my Cutlass,
but for some reason I didn't do it. The easiest (and most rugged) solution I
found was to install an inline manual heater valve and completely do away
with the vacuum controlled valve. Granted, I have to get under the hood and
open or close the valve, but I do that only twice a year - close it for the
summer, and then open it again in the fall/winter when it's cool enough to
need the heat. But even if the valve is open, there is no heat added to the
incoming air unless the Hot/Cold lever is moved to the Hot side. A bonus to
the manual heater valve is that is extremely durable - I have had zero
manual heater valve failures from about 1985 to present vs. three vacuum
heater valve failures from about 1980-1986.


And that's why I did exactly the same thing, with 0 control valve failures
for twice that long.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:09:09 -0400
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: MSD and dieseling

THANKS A LOT, MILTON
Matt

> > Hi, just a quick Q aout the MSD - if the engine runs after the ignition
is
> > turned off, there should be diode installed somewhere... anybody
remembers
> > where to?
>
>
> Install a 1A 100V diode in the brown wire coming off an internally
regulated
> alternator or in the wire going to #4 terminal on the external regulator
of
> an earlier vehicle. Diodes are one way devices. Make sure the diode points
> away from the alternator or regulator for electrical flow away from the
> alternator or regulator. The wire in question is the one feeding the
> charging light on the dash. The I.D. color band on the diode is at the
rear,
> the input end. The output end has no band.
>
> Check out http://www.msdignition.com/ , tech support, trouble shooting,
> engine run-on.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:37:14 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Ignition probs2

Jeff,

> When I came out I tried to start it and nothing, no trying to turn over or
anything.


Only the first half of the sentence registered on my feeble brain. I missed
the second half.


> Yes, I checked all the connections still all good?  Still wont start?


Steve Harrison is right. It sounds like something failed suddenly in the
starting circuit, like the solenoid, or it could be the starter itself. I'd
pull the starter and test the components and go from there.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:38:28 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

Hi Olds. experts; I have a similar question, will headers fit in my 1976
Olds.98 LS coupe. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same under the hood
as an Olds.88, either 4door or 2door. Every place I have checked sells
headers for  an 75 88(same as 76), but list nothing for a 98. There is this
place on E-bay that sells ceramic coated headers for under 250$, but only
for 88s. It's called headers for less, and truly the prices are less. But
before I bite, I would like a little more education from all of you seasoned
Olds. experts. Thanks for the advise........., in advance!

'76 Olds. LS coupe 98
Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??


> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:22 AM
> Subject: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??
>
>
> > Do u know of any where i can get headers that will fit my car ?
> > will the headers for a 71-76 88 fit my 88 ?
> > are the frames the same? thanks
>
>
> What year Delta 88?????
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:20:26 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

At 10:38 PM 9/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Olds. experts; I have a similar question, will headers fit in my 
>1976 Olds.98 LS coupe. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same 
>under the hood as an Olds.88, either 4door or 2door. Every place I 
>have checked sells headers for  an 75 88(same as 76), but list nothing 
>for a 98.

The D88 was B-body, the 98 C-body (IIRC: possibly D-body??). But the frames
are identical up front so I'd venture the guess yes, they outta fit. The
C/D-body frames may have had additional reinforcement struts between the
rear of the lower control arm brackets and frame, as the later fullsized
B-body wagons do.

BTW, I found a set of '71 Cutlass SBO headers fit my '88 fullsized wagon
with 307 but I wudda had to remove those reinforcement struts. Those are
bolted on so that's not a big deal; but the car likely wudda gotten more
squirrely on the road although it may not make much difference on the drag
strip.

If you have a chassis manual, you might check the drawings/dimensions of
the frame in the front section somewhere.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:26:31 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

> Hi Olds. experts; I have a similar question, will headers fit in my 1976
> Olds.98 LS coupe. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same under the
hood
> as an Olds.88, either 4door or 2door. Every place I have checked sells
> headers for  an 75 88(same as 76), but list nothing for a 98.


Rick, you're saying that '75 is the same as '76, but Hooker lists *only*
'71-'75 for a Delta for either header set 3101 or 3202. So why does Hooker
say those headers don't fit a '76? As far as the issue between an 88 and a
98, the engine compartments for '71-'75 88s and 98s are the same. But for a
'76, I don't know, and Hooker is saying no.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:40:30 -0400
From: "Mike Evans" <mevans@jasnetworks.net>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

I've no idea about Delta header fitting, but....Hooker also lists the 3902
Competition header as fitting '65-'75 Cutlasses only, and I can tell you
that they are the best fitting header I've ever run on my '76 Cutlass that
I've had since 1981.  It's hard to put much faith in CatalogWriters who
still publish the "Cutlass Supreme with offset engine only" disclaimer,
methinks. ;-)

Mike Evans
Richland, MI
'76 Cutlass S/461
www.time-save.com/cutlass.htm
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??


> > Hi Olds. experts; I have a similar question, will headers fit in my 1976
> > Olds.98 LS coupe. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same under the
> hood
> > as an Olds.88, either 4door or 2door. Every place I have checked sells
> > headers for  an 75 88(same as 76), but list nothing for a 98.
>
>
> Rick, you're saying that '75 is the same as '76, but Hooker lists *only*
> '71-'75 for a Delta for either header set 3101 or 3202. So why does Hooker
> say those headers don't fit a '76? As far as the issue between an 88 and a
> 98, the engine compartments for '71-'75 88s and 98s are the same. But for
a
> '76, I don't know, and Hooker is saying no.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:25:57 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Found Ransom's hat form?

Found a wooden hat making form yesterday at yard sale
Looks like it was made to make Ransom E. Olds's hats
Ladies' version too.
I see on eBay they sell for $5 to $200 depending on style and such.

If I can just link Frank A. Buck's name on the man's hat form to Ransom 
Olds' actual hats... there's a "spirit item" for the car display!
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:45:36 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Ignition problem? 65 Cutlass HEI

From: JEFFREY LISLE <jeffslisle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ignition problem?

- - --0-317379382-1094793382=:4792
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi all,

My '65 Cutlass wont start!  I drove it around for about 20 min today and 
when I
got home I decided maybe it could use a tune up.  I was going to
pull the rotor and distributor cap to take to a parts store and get a new 
set
since I don't really know what year the engine is.  Well the wife came home
before I pulled anything (had groceries) all I did was unclamp the cap look
under and clamp the distributor cap back on.  I have never had an HEI engine
until I swapped in this 350 which drives great until today.  So
===================
OK, minor ign system fiddling


When I came out I tried to start
it and nothing, no trying to turn over or anything.  Batt is good, all the 
ACC
and lights work but it  just wont start?  I don't know much about HEI is 
there really any big difference?  I am stumped.
============
STARTING system and IGNITION system are 2 totally separate aminals. Well, 
except for the starter feeding the coil on pts-ign systems. You just 
described a STARTING SYSTEM problem. No amount of fiddling with the ignition 
system is going to affect that. Not much to the HEI system, you supply volts 
and it makes spark when you turn it. Unless the coil or module [more 
frequently] or the pickup wires/ coil go bad.



I checked all the wires and they are all still snug.  I am not sure but I 
was thinking the ignition switch?
================
Now we're talking. The "ignition" switch also runs the STARTING. circuit. I 
guess they are sort-of interconnected at that point too. You can simply ck 
for volts at your purple wire near the horn relay, there should be volts 
present from the car feed side whenever the key is held to START. If not, 
the you need to ck back to the.... NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH if your car is Auto 
trans... is gear selector  in PARK or Neutral? Next step before that is the 
Ign/Start switch in the dash. Then the battery feed to that switch. If, 
OTOH, you have volts at the violet wire by horn relay when START is keyed, 
your starter itself or the wiring to it is at fault.



The black box on the drivers side is that the voltage regulator?  Could that 
cause a
problem maybe it just went out?  Sorry if I sound like
I dont know anything but I am still new to classic cars and I really
appreaciate all the info I have received thus far.  Thanks Jeff
====================
The Charging system is yet another separate system. Leave that out of it. 
First, get the starting system to crank the engine.
- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:27:36 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: My N-MT-455 crank core on eVil site $55 or so

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2489547169&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Unless you need ebay feedback, please just write or call me and we will 
arrange a sale.

Thanks fer lookin'

- ----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:06:50 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??

So Milt; Steve H, thinks that they will fit in my car, and since the engine
compartment according to my eyeballs, says the Delta 88, and the 98 appear
exactly the same. Would you venture to say then that it should work? And are
ceramic coated headers the way to go, or if they need to be tweaked , would
opting on a good set of un-coated be better. I think my car would run sooooo
much better with headers and duel pipes.
Rick Messenger
'76 98 coupe
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Headers for the 19__ Delta 88 with SBO ??


> > Hi Olds. experts; I have a similar question, will headers fit in my 1976
> > Olds.98 LS coupe. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same under the
> hood
> > as an Olds.88, either 4door or 2door. Every place I have checked sells
> > headers for  an 75 88(same as 76), but list nothing for a 98.
>
>
> Rick, you're saying that '75 is the same as '76, but Hooker lists *only*
> '71-'75 for a Delta for either header set 3101 or 3202. So why does Hooker
> say those headers don't fit a '76? As far as the issue between an 88 and a
> 98, the engine compartments for '71-'75 88s and 98s are the same. But for
a
> '76, I don't know, and Hooker is saying no.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5018
*********************************
