
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, October 12 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5054



Olds engine mount bolt boss
RE: Non Olds Humor
Re: Non Olds Humor
Re: Re:
Re: Re:
Re: Non Olds Humor
Re: Convertible top trim removal
Re: Non Olds Humor
Div.6 Summit finals pics
Re: Olds engine mount bolt boss
Re: Olds engine mount bolt boss
Re: Re:
TH 350 behind a 455
Re: Re:
Re: Non Olds Humor
Non Olds Humor
Re: more MSD headaches
Re: Non Olds Humor
Re: more MSD headaches

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:08:35 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Olds engine mount bolt boss

Steve,

I was looking at your website, and I suppose these words were in your post
to the List, and noticed this:

"But the more I looked at the bottom end of this Olds 307, the less
impressed I became with its design. For example, if you look very closely at
the exact center of the top of the fifth picture, you'll see one of the
engine mount bosses cast into the side of the block. All four of the engine
mount bolts have bosses like those; it doesn't take much imagination to
think that it really wouldn't take a whole lot of torque to break those
bosses right out of the block  ;o((((((((  I understand that 455 blocks have
similar engine mount bosses and tearing them out of the block is not all
that uncommon."

I've never heard of an Olds engine mount bolt boss breaking out in an Olds
block of any kind. Who has said that? That's a new one.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:07:22 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Non Olds Humor

The suspension & frame in my MR2 Spyder is from Porsche (same as the
Boxster).

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----

I have found it interesting the extent that GM and Toyota are in bed
together. Many of the parts in my Toys. are from GM, or from their
subsidiaries.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:13:39 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor

Well...., it's the era of the "world" car.

Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Non Olds Humor


> The suspension & frame in my MR2 Spyder is from Porsche (same as the
> Boxster).
> 
> John Nasta
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> I have found it interesting the extent that GM and Toyota are in bed
> together. Many of the parts in my Toys. are from GM, or from their
> subsidiaries.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:10:49 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

At 05:25 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>From a distance, it was getting difficult telling makes apart.

That's been true for we old farts since the first bubblemobile appeared in
the late '80s. Once I saw my 2nd one, I quit looking for more. It was
obvious the world had once again gone insane ;o(((((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:20:06 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

I have always loved that car, and the 69 Toro. GT, the 72 Buick Boat tail
Riv.. The 72 98 LS coupe, and the 58  98 coupe. I also wish I had an extra 7
large laying around , and I would take Johns convertible off his hands. One
sweet car!
Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> i would of loved to see a retro 69 hurst olds.
>  ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>
> > The wife still likes& loves me, luv handles and a chest that seems to be
> > sliding into my drawers! LOL
> > You know the old saying "what goes around , comes around". It seems to
me
> > that  the auto design departments are at the end of their "computer
aided"
> > design options for all the new stuff. I guess that they will have to
start
> > getting out the paper and (crayons), and really Draw! It would be nice
to
> > see some real artistic graceful lines again. Seems to me we may start
seeing
> > just that. I don't know about you, but I tire of all the "pinched off
turd"
> > designed cars. From a distance, it was getting difficult telling makes
> > apart.
> > Rick
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:58 AM
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> >> i wish i had a great body. lol
> >> some of the car designs are nice but whats funny look at concept cars
from
> > 50's-60's
> >>  there are alot of simularieties in todays cars except for now the
> > computors ,wireing,switches and
> >> ect. weigh more than the shell of the car.
> >> well off to work,
> >> take care
> >> ron
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 1:25 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >
<001b01c4ae24$10496e40$25278d45@D7KRQR11><000701c4ae2b$aacced00$0300a8c0@co
> >> >       mputer><000e01c4ae2f$c3eea770$25278d45@D7KRQR11>
> >> >
> >
<011d01c4aef5$57dd7bd0$0201a8c0@D12TVT41><000b01c4af1a$1d7f29a0$0300a8c0@co
> >> > mputer> <000c01c4af43$a5383390$25278d45@D7KRQR11>
> >> > Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor
> >> > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:25:36 -0700
> >> > X-Priority: 3
> >> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
> >> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
> >> > X-Scrubber-ClamAV: clean
> >> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >> >
> >> > Ron.........,when your right.....,your right. But my O my, what a
great
> >> > lookin body.
> >> > Rick
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:37 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> the bottom line is every manufacturer has there problems.
> >> >> to be fair you would have to compare total number of cars sold by
each
> > and
> >> > break the problems down
> >> >> by category and compare failure to sales ratio. chrysler has the
most
> >> > recalls per  car than any
> >> >> manufacturer ive seen
> >> >> ron
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> >> >> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:40 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Unfortunately, I am forced to agree with you. I prefer to buy
> > American,
> >> > but
> >> >> > unless it is a "hobby" car, I don't want to have to work on it any
> > more
> >> > than
> >> >> > is necessary. This is why I drive Toyotas for my regular
> > transportation.
> >> > I
> >> >> > have friends with Olds. Auroras, and I have been told that the
engine
> > is
> >> > a
> >> >> > de-tuned Northstar V8. Many have had serious trouble with these
cars.
> > I
> >> >> > guess it is not unusual for Cadillac's to have anywhere from 2 to
4,
> >> > even 5
> >> >> > computers on board them. Those who have kept their cars past the
> >> > warranty
> >> >> > period, have had to pay dearly for all the electronic problems.
While
> > I
> >> > like
> >> >> > some of the designs that are coming out of Detroit, I am leery. I
> > guess
> >> > that
> >> >> > new Chrysler 300 with the Hemi, is quite the car.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Let me say this about  Mercedes, they have been doing worse in the
> >> >> > reliability department, as have Audi, and all the Lawyers BMWs,
than
> >> > have
> >> >> > the American Luxury brands. If you want to go broke fast, marry a
> > "gold
> >> >> > digger", and get her a Mercedes! LOL
> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> > From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
> >> >> > To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:17 AM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Regardless of what I would make of it its still a Cadillac and
will
> >> >> > probably
> >> >> >> therefore be lucky to make it much over a100k miles... I swore
years
> >> > ago
> >> >> > I'd
> >> >> >> never own another Cadillac (unless it was a '59 and then I'd use
> > Olds
> >> >> > engine
> >> >> >> & tranny) after the POS 72 or 3 I had and then the POS 69 friend
> > had.
> >> > In
> >> >> >> fact most of the people I've known who've had Caddi's have had
some
> >> >> > serious
> >> >> >> difficulties ESPECIALLY with electronics (wonder how this thing
will
> >> >> > fare).
> >> >> >> My opinion on Caddi's in general - OVER-engineered and
UNDER-built!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Sorry for the obviously heavily biased post but... my experience!
> > If
> >> > you
> >> >> >> want a luxury car... get an fullsize Olds... if you want a NEW
> > luxury
> >> >> > car...
> >> >> >> get a Mercedes or a Lexus... if that's too expensive for you
Lincoln
> > is
> >> >> >> still around (but you'd be happier with a low mileage full-sized
> > Olds).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Later Gang...
> >> >> >> Clayton Pierce
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:46:00 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor

> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:40:02 -0700
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor
> 
>  Still though, with all the electronics on Cadillac's, and other 
> luxury brands; if you keep it long enough, it's gonna cost you 
> lost's of green. 

You don't even have to keep it long (or at all). I read an article in an Car and Driver about some high-end German cars that have a dozen or so processors onboard that had troubles right out the dealer's door. Most of the problems were due to software glitches in the processors (or between the various processors), which made them VERY difficult to troubleshoot. Some of the problems were so bad that after months of failing to correct the problems, the factory BOUGHT THE CARS BACK. Can you imagine paying upwards of $100K for a car that you couldn't even drive and the dealer couldn't find out why not? I would be totally peeved. The article went on to mention that most of the electronics in these new vehicles were not there because of customer demand for them, but because they were more "bells and whistles" that the factory could stuff into the car. Most of the folks surveyed by the magazine were just like us - very leery of electronics that could break down. Who really needs an onboard computer to monitor the tire pressure, or the gas cap, or the washer fluid level? I can do that myself, thank you, and without a software glitch.

Sorry but I can't remember which issue of C&D that was, but it was earlier this year for sure.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:49:22 -0400
From: "Dan Roethel" <droethel@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible top trim removal

Decided to pass on the fun I had this afternoon removing the rear trim.
Part 1.Since all the screws where rusted and wouldn't move, I decided to try
and cut a slot in the screw since the Philips head were rounded. Time to use
that Dremel tool like in the commercial. One problem. Can't see the screw.
Solution get a mirror to see under the trim. Found and old round mirror and
tucked it under the trim. Now I can see every thing but it is reversed in
the mirror. A little dark in the garage so I get the trouble light to
brighten things up. Start to cut a groove in the screw but the mirror
vibrates loose and falls down. Put the mirror back but manage to snap off
the cutting wheel of the Dremel.
3 cutting wheels later I determine this isn't working.
Part2. Abandon the cutting wheel and decide to grind the screw heads off.
Grinding is slow but after about 15 minutes of trying by looking at the
reverse image in the mirror the screw head comes off. Mirror has fallen down
about 20 times at this point. Decide to use Duct Tape and tape the mirror to
the car.
Part3. Dremel is taking to long so I get the courage to use the air grinder
with a 3" cut off wheel. Next screw takes about 10 minute to grind down. The
next two screws only take about 5 minutes to grind off the heads. Finally
getting good at working with the reverse image in the mirror. Final screw
was not fully screwed in by the factory so I manage to grab the head with
Vise grips and out it comes. Factory forgot to install one screw (thanked
the factory worker for slacking off in this case!)
The trim finally is off. Miller Time!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:51:18 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor

> it is true that the mighty Japanese
> auto industry is beginning to slip. According to Consumer Reports, the
> American Auto industry has bested the mighty Germans, and now is in the
> number 2 spot where reliability is concerned. They still have to beat
Honda
> and Toyota, and if they start using that old fashioned Yankee know how,
they
> may pull it off.


Actually, the Japanese may help them when the Japanese economy really fails.

Japan is a small island nation with an unbelievable population density.
There are major streets in Tokyo where there's only room for one car to
drive down the street and the buildings are an arm's reach on each side of
the car. The majority of people live on top of one another, like in Boston,
but it's everywhere.

The Japanese infrastructure is slowly collapsing. The effects of moisture
corrosion from the sea are everywhere. There is fear that all the retrofits
of earthquake protection features are usless due to mositure deterioation of
the concrete in the buildings. They can't derust and clean and repaint
bridges fast enough to prevent structural damage from deep rust. The Bullet
trains depend on a vast network of tunnels throughout the extensive mountain
regions in Japan. Those tunnels are beginning to crack and have severe water
seepage problems. One of these days, a Bullet train doing about 140 is going
to be traversing a tunnel and a section of the tunnel will drop on the
train. Bullet train speed in tunnels is now restricted.

Finally, the extensive industrialization of Japan since WW2 to compete in
the world marketplace has created a recently recognized industrial pollution
problem. Before WW2, Japanese industry simply dumped their industrial
wastes. After WW2, nothing changed until the Green activists of the mid-60s.
However, the Japanese government ignored them. Now, environmental pollution
has caught up to the Japanese. There is nowhere left to build, except on top
of former industrial pollution dump sites. Concrete for new construction has
industrial pollution agents in it from the ground where the rock and sand
and other components were dug. There is no pollution free drinking water
from the ground anywhere in Japan. To clean up the environmental mess the
Japanese have made for themselves will take their entire gross national
product for an estimated next 100 years!

Soon, the Japanese may no longer be a viable economic competitor.


> Still though, with all the electronics on Cadillac's, and
> other luxury brands; if you keep it long enough, it's gonna cost you
lost's
> of green. This is why I like the old Oldsmobile's,,they are still a great
> ride, and fairly easy to work on. And still, in my humble opinion, one of
> the finest looking cars on the road!


You are soooooooooooooo absolutely right!

There's no damn reason for cars to be built like an exploration starship!
Not even are all the electronic controls and computer programming needed for
engine pollution control. It's just plain nuts. The best machine is the
simplest needed to do the job with a 1.5 to 2.0 safety factor built in.
That's all that's needed. That's what we had in cars from the '60s.

Like you Rick, I ***will*** stay with '60s Olds cars, that are easily
understood and easily fixed and maintained. That's the way to go for me.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:02:47 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Div.6 Summit finals pics

Hello
Lotsa kewl pics from the Div.6 Summit finals...some Olds :)
http://www.nwdragracing.com/Images/MissionWeb10-2-2004/index_2.html
Good luck!
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:01:02 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Olds engine mount bolt boss

At 06:08 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>I've never heard of an Olds engine mount bolt boss breaking out in an Olds
>block of any kind. Who has said that? That's a new one.

It's been awhile and I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, the
likelihood of having to worry about such esoteric occurrances occurring to
my own 307 being somewhat less than the chance of a snowball in h377  ;o)

But I recall reading of that happening on one of the forums with
tuff-talking "real" racers, the kind who post quarter mile times in the 8s
and 9s. Frankly, I can see it happening if, for example, one used solid
metal motor mounts and the car's chassis flexes sufficiently off the line;
no?  But with the stock rubber motor mounts, no way, Jose: too much give
and take in the rubber.

BTW, did I mention that I found ALL FOUR of the motor mount bolts in my
block less than finger-tight?? They weren't even tight, I simply reached up
there, dug through the grease and grime and found the bolt heads, then
rotated all four of them right out, easy as pie  ;o(((((  To their credit,
though, they WERE all still almost all the way into the block (that is, not
backed out so as to fall off tomorrow). I gess the last guy who replaced
the mounts (and also BTW, the ole ones looked pretty good, just really
greasy and grungy but not at all soft) simply forgot to tighten the four
bolts  ;o(((((

I'm STILL wondering where all the rest of the nylon from the timing gear
went. Have only found around half a dozen bits of nylon teeth, nothing
whatsoever larger than maybe 3/16", nothing whatsoever of the nylon that
was molded around the aluminum gear itself. And there's nothing inside the
pump pickup that I can see..... but I'm thinking maybe I better take it off
and shake it out, maybe they're WAY up there....  ;o((((((

I just cannot believe that the cam gear, as worn as it clearly was,
actually had just survived TEN runs, each seeing two upshifts between
4500-5000, and still lasted over a hundred miles before completely falling
apart. The old timing chain sure doesn't fit worth a dang over what's left
of that gear.

What's more, the next to the very last run was my best yet, and only half a
second behind an '88 Cutlass with a similar VIN Y roller 307. Not bad for a
240K-mile-old, 4600-lb wagon, eh  ;o)

But without any nylon bits and pieces, what else am I to conclude, eh  ?;-|
 Is that still another of those Olds-durability stories or what  :o)

Ya know, it was funny, at the strip... both that day and a year ago.
EVERYTIME I made a "backup" run immediately after a run, the car went
quicker (this was Drag Day, remember, where there was virtually no waiting
line and one could actually make a follow-up run within several minutes of
the preceding run). This time, I made three runs in quick succession, all
within a time span of five minutes, and the car got quicker each time. MPH
also went up. The temp gauge showed nominal; if it was getting hotter, the
coolant wasn't more than a few degrees hotter. The tranny temps were also
about the same on each run. The very last run, the car felt REALLY good,
even breaking the tires loose for a few feet (Yoko Avids aren't real quiet,
as Andrew will probably agree  ;o). It's too bad that the strip's timing
machine screwed up, registering my 1/8th mile speed as 107 mph whereas it
was actually somewhere in the 60's  ;o( Everything just felt perfect on
that run. In the next lane was a '69 or '70 Stang with 351 and the dang
thang crossed the line only two car lengths ahead of my big boatanchor  ;o)

I first noticed this tendency to run a bit quicker on "back-up" runs last
year, same strip and same time of year. Dunno what was happening, it might
have just been psychological  ;o|

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:56:32 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Olds engine mount bolt boss

> But I recall reading of that happening on one of the forums with
> tuff-talking "real" racers,


Yeah, like Strange Magic...


> the kind who post quarter mile times in the 8s
> and 9s. Frankly, I can see it happening if, for example, one used solid
> metal motor mounts and the car's chassis flexes sufficiently off the line;
> no?


Possible, however, that would be a poorly designed car. A flexing frame from
engine torque takes energy...energy that needs to propel the car down the
strip. One does *not* want the frame or chassis the flex. The suspension is
a whole other story, for the suspension must be designed to transfer weight.


> But with the stock rubber motor mounts, no way, Jose: too much give
> and take in the rubber.


Except...


> BTW, did I mention that I found ALL FOUR of the motor mount bolts in my
> block less than finger-tight??


That ***will*** cause damage to the mount bolt boss quicker than anything
else. Why? As engine torque moves and rattles the rubber engine mount, the
mount bounces on the bolt shank, which yanks at the threads, sideways, in
the bolt boss. Enough of that and the boss can break. The mount bolts
***must*** be tight at all times. Use a very good grade 8 lock washer under
the heads of the mounting bolts.


> They weren't even tight, I simply reached up
> there, dug through the grease and grime and found the bolt heads, then
> rotated all four of them right out, easy as pie  ;o(((((


I've seen that before.


> To their credit,
> though, they WERE all still almost all the way into the block (that is,
not
> backed out so as to fall off tomorrow).


But they were loose. The hole in the mount flange was bouncing off the sides
of the bolts. Not good, no way.


> I'm STILL wondering where all the rest of the nylon from the timing gear
> went. Have only found around half a dozen bits of nylon teeth, nothing
> whatsoever larger than maybe 3/16", nothing whatsoever of the nylon that
> was molded around the aluminum gear itself. And there's nothing inside the
> pump pickup that I can see..... but I'm thinking maybe I better take it
off
> and shake it out, maybe they're WAY up there....  ;o((((((


Probaly grown up and was "removed" by sevral oil changes and being stuck in
the oil filter. Believe me, an engine will find trash bouncing around inside
the crankcase and cring it up. If the trash is relatively soft, probably no
damage will occur. If the material is hard, that can be a very different
story. Trash rarely stays put in the oil pan. Never rely on that happening.
Murphy won't allow it.
>  Is that still another of those Olds-durability stories or what  :o)


Yes. :-)))))))


> Ya know, it was funny, at the strip... both that day and a year ago.
> EVERYTIME I made a "backup" run immediately after a run, the car went
> quicker (this was Drag Day, remember, where there was virtually no waiting
> line and one could actually make a follow-up run within several minutes of
> the preceding run). This time, I made three runs in quick succession, all
> within a time span of five minutes, and the car got quicker each time. MPH
> also went up.


Your short block is loose enough with "controlled" wear to wind tight,
quickly, and your heads and valves were still good. It's not surprising.


> I first noticed this tendency to run a bit quicker on "back-up" runs last
> year, same strip and same time of year. Dunno what was happening, it might
> have just been psychological  ;o|


A good old, but loose, engine. It has happened before and will happen again.

And it's not uncommon for an Olds engine, urban legend be damned. :-))))))

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:55:21 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the AMC
Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL
Rick M
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Harrison" <k0xp@dandy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


> At 05:25 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >From a distance, it was getting difficult telling makes apart.
>
> That's been true for we old farts since the first bubblemobile appeared in
> the late '80s. Once I saw my 2nd one, I quit looking for more. It was
> obvious the world had once again gone insane ;o(((((
>
> SteveH
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:10:06 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: TH 350 behind a 455

11 Oct 2004  "Brian J Kerr" <bkerr@ecologistics.com> writes:
> My concern is durability, not performance.

If you want durability, use a THM400, esp behind a 455.

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:23:16 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Re:

At 09:55 PM 10/11/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>What.........? Steve, you mean to tell me that you didn't like the AMC
>Pacer?  Why , that's a classic! LOL

1. That was designed and made here in the good ole US of A.
2. It was RWD.

But no, I didn't think of the Pacer and no, I never liked the looks of
them. However, I DID sorta like the exterior looks of the ole Matadors the
LA cops used to have. Those could be fairly quick, a guy I used to know
with a '69 Z28 got run down by one  ;o(((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:25:23 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor

You know Milt, I know a guy here in Spokane who was recruited by a major
Japanese construction firm. He was a contracting civil engineer, who
specialized in building design. He said much the same thing when he
returned; he said that rust stains are everywhere, and even buildings that
were 10 years old were in serious trouble because of cancer. About the only
things in Japan that weren't rusted out were the cars. He said that there is
a national 30,000 mile law in Japan. Which means, that once your car reaches
that point, you are forced to turn it in. It's no wonder there are so very
many used Jap. engine, and engine parts places around. I guess that the only
way they have to really test the durability of their cars in outside of
Japan.

Over here, not every thing that comes from Japan is all that great. Just
talk to some of the heavy equipment owners, and they have a different story
to tell. But not to worry........, I was talking to a self made prophet the
other day, and he tells me that as soon as every Chinese owns his own car;
God is going to come back and take His people home. So get ready Brother!


P.S  I was wondering what the gravitational constant of a bullet train is,
when it strikes a fallen concrete wall. Would that be the same as throwing
sushi at a fan?................Hmmmmmmmmmm  Frankly, I think this electronic
world of ours, costs us far more, than any of the convenience it was
supposed to make. Have a great evening!
Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor


> > it is true that the mighty Japanese
> > auto industry is beginning to slip. According to Consumer Reports, the
> > American Auto industry has bested the mighty Germans, and now is in the
> > number 2 spot where reliability is concerned. They still have to beat
> Honda
> > and Toyota, and if they start using that old fashioned Yankee know how,
> they
> > may pull it off.
>
>
> Actually, the Japanese may help them when the Japanese economy really
fails.
>
> Japan is a small island nation with an unbelievable population density.
> There are major streets in Tokyo where there's only room for one car to
> drive down the street and the buildings are an arm's reach on each side of
> the car. The majority of people live on top of one another, like in
Boston,
> but it's everywhere.
>
> The Japanese infrastructure is slowly collapsing. The effects of moisture
> corrosion from the sea are everywhere. There is fear that all the
retrofits
> of earthquake protection features are usless due to mositure deterioation
of
> the concrete in the buildings. They can't derust and clean and repaint
> bridges fast enough to prevent structural damage from deep rust. The
Bullet
> trains depend on a vast network of tunnels throughout the extensive
mountain
> regions in Japan. Those tunnels are beginning to crack and have severe
water
> seepage problems. One of these days, a Bullet train doing about 140 is
going
> to be traversing a tunnel and a section of the tunnel will drop on the
> train. Bullet train speed in tunnels is now restricted.
>
> Finally, the extensive industrialization of Japan since WW2 to compete in
> the world marketplace has created a recently recognized industrial
pollution
> problem. Before WW2, Japanese industry simply dumped their industrial
> wastes. After WW2, nothing changed until the Green activists of the
mid-60s.
> However, the Japanese government ignored them. Now, environmental
pollution
> has caught up to the Japanese. There is nowhere left to build, except on
top
> of former industrial pollution dump sites. Concrete for new construction
has
> industrial pollution agents in it from the ground where the rock and sand
> and other components were dug. There is no pollution free drinking water
> from the ground anywhere in Japan. To clean up the environmental mess the
> Japanese have made for themselves will take their entire gross national
> product for an estimated next 100 years!
>
> Soon, the Japanese may no longer be a viable economic competitor.
>
>
> > Still though, with all the electronics on Cadillac's, and
> > other luxury brands; if you keep it long enough, it's gonna cost you
> lost's
> > of green. This is why I like the old Oldsmobile's,,they are still a
great
> > ride, and fairly easy to work on. And still, in my humble opinion, one
of
> > the finest looking cars on the road!
>
>
> You are soooooooooooooo absolutely right!
>
> There's no damn reason for cars to be built like an exploration starship!
> Not even are all the electronic controls and computer programming needed
for
> engine pollution control. It's just plain nuts. The best machine is the
> simplest needed to do the job with a 1.5 to 2.0 safety factor built in.
> That's all that's needed. That's what we had in cars from the '60s.
>
> Like you Rick, I ***will*** stay with '60s Olds cars, that are easily
> understood and easily fixed and maintained. That's the way to go for me.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:39:04 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Non Olds Humor

11 Oct 2004  "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net> writes:
> the American Auto industry has bested the mighty 
> Germans, and now is in the number 2 spot where 
> reliability is concerned. 

What year were the Germans EVER as reliable as 
American autos, or Olds in particular?  My first 62 was 
German, and it was constantly broken.  Even their 
own mechanics couldn't fix it correctly.  What a piece 
of s**t, finished at 50,000 miles.  I got a 62 Olds and 
have been driving Olds ever since.  The Olds I drove 
today made 300, 000 miles without seeing a tow 
truck, and is still working for a living.  

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:46:09 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches

I put a brand new cap and rotor on it when I put on the MSD external 
coil, so that shouldn't be it. As you mentioned, the only wires now 
connected to the distributor are the pickup leads. I'm thinking it's 
time to get a bunch of neighbors to help me push the damned thing 
into the garage. It's probably also time to put that other engine 
together.

Congrats on the track laps. You got a dual ignition set up in the truck?

John
68 442 co - oh, forget it!


>In a message dated 10/11/04 4:44:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
>johnliving@cox.net writes:
>-- Secondly, now that I've got the orange wire from the GM ignition box going
>to the positive terminal on the Blaster coil, there doesn't seem to be
>anything going to the condenser inside the distributor. Is this correct? --
>
>Exactly.  It isn't needed anymore -- in fact, with removing the coil (from
>the HEI distributor) the only small wires on it should be the two connected to
>the pickup coil in the bottom of the housing.  Everything else should be
>connected to the MSD box and/or the external coil.
>
>Double check that you don't have distributor cap trouble -- with the added
>voltage from the Blaster coil any defect in the cap and/or rotor 
>would manifest
>itself quickly.
>
>Take Care,
>SrA Ken Snyder
>Kansas City, Kansas
>
>By the way, while driving one of the track clean-up trucks during the Banquet
>400 Sunday at the Kansas Speedway, I completed more laps around the track
>than the last place finishing car!  There's something to be said about driving
>alongside a NASCAR Nextel Cup car on the track, even if they're 
>behind the pace
>car.  Dale Jr. even blipped the throttle once as I was passing him (on my way
>back to my station in Turn 3), that was a rush!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:57:04 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Humor

> He said that there is
> a national 30,000 mile law in Japan. Which means, that once your car
reaches
> that point, you are forced to turn it in.


That's right. No Freedom.


> It's no wonder there are so very
> many used Jap. engine, and engine parts places around.


Correct. The cars are stripped and the used parts are shipped all over the
world.


> Frankly, I think this electronic
> world of ours, costs us far more, than any of the convenience it was
> supposed to make.


The wise product engineer should know when to improve a product and when to
leave the product alone. Unfortunately, there aren't too many wise ones.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:57:05 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: more MSD headaches

>At 05:38 PM 10/11/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>>I sure hope it's misplaced plug wires, and not some missing timing
>>gear teeth or the like.
>
>Sure sounds like a stripped timing gear. Wanna read a true-life story bout
>that?
>http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/88%20Caprice%20Wagon/TimingChain.htm

Oh, boy. It's looking like I won't be taking the 442 to the beach this weekend!

I've had a 455 block all prepped and sitting in the garage for about 
a year. Guess I might as well get the remaining pieces together and 
see how badly I can screw up its assembly. The current engine is not 
original and there's no telling what cam it has in it. It's not a 
particularly potent beast, and it was showing signs of age. Time to 
bite the bullet.

I owe you at least a beer or two for typing all that CSM stuff below!

John

>
>>Any suggestions, other than turning in my shade-tree mechanic
>>license, would be appreciated.
>
>Too bad you messed with the distributor timing location already; you cudda
>told whether
>the cam had slipped just by removing the cap and looking at where the rotor
>pointed. For that reason alone, please do return your shade-tree mechanic
>license  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\
>
>Mine wound up halfway between the #1 and #8 cylinders with the timing mark
>on the balancer at TDC but I KNEW the distributor was set to 24* BTDC. When
>I reset the balancer to 24* BTDC, the rotor had crept slightly closer
>toward #1 but was still way off and nowhere near #1 in the cap.
>
>The CSM does give a description of how to determine whether the cam is
>outta time with the crank, lemme find it:
>AHHhhh...
>
>"CHECKING VALVE TIMING WITHOUT REMOVING FRONT COVER
>Remove or Disconnect
>1. Distributor cap
>2. R.H valve cover
>3. No. 4 cylinder intake and exhaust rocker arms and pivot. (SEE CAUTION
>BELOW)
>4. Wire from "Bat." terminal of H.E.I. distributor
>5. Turn ignition switch on. Crank engine until rotor is in line with No. 4
>spark plug wire position. No. 4 piston will be approximately at the top of
>the cylinder.
>
>MEASURE
>1. Measure from pivot boss on head surface to top of No. 4 intake push-rod.
>Record measurement. (Fig. 42)
>2. Slowly turn engine 1-1/2 revolutions until rotor approaches No. 1 spark
>plug wire position. Continue to turn engine until timing mark on crankshaft
>hub is aligned with "O" on indicator. This is top dead center of No. 1 piston.
>3. Again measure from pivot boss surface to top of No. 4 cylinder intake
>pushrod.
>    * Measurement should increase over the first measurement (Fig. 42)
>    * If measurement increase is not within 3.15mm (1/8") of that shown,
>camshaft is advanced or retarded."
>
>Although they refer to finding #1 and #4 TDC using the distributor rotor
>position, this is simply to be sure you aren't looking at those cylinders
>when the camshaft is 180 degrees out (rember the cam rotates once for every
>two revs of the crank). So you really only need to make sure the rotor is
>pointing basically toward #1 or #4 in general, above.
>
>The measurement you're doing above on the #4 intake pushrod is actually
>kind of clever  ;o)))))  What you're really doing is measuring #4's intake
>lobe on the camshaft at a point where a small amount of camshaft movement
>causes a large amount of lift difference on #4 cylinder. So what you are
>actually doing is bringing #4 to TDC then measuring the amount of lift of
>#4's intake lobe. Now bring #1 to TDC and again measure the amount of lift
>of #4's intake lobe. It's now supposed to be MORE, but by only about 1/8".
>
>Unfortunately, the above pertains to a 1984 307 VIN Y camshaft; yours very
>likely has different specs  ;o((((((((  Being a 442 cam, it could be almost
>anything.
>
>But maybe your CSM mentions a similar measurement; look in the section
>dealing with replacement of the timing chain and gears.
>
>SteveH

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5054
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