
oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, November 18 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5094



RE: 350 engine in that 1969 Olds 442 convertible on ebay
Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
Re: R-12 replacement
Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
Re: R-12 replacement
Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
Re: R-12 replacement
Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
is the 425 the best olds engine?
Re: R-12 replacement
Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?
Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
RE: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?
Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?
RE: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
RE: R-12 replacement
Gots a Jeep
68 Toro tries to kill me
RE: R-12 replacement
Re: 68 Toro tries to kill me

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:52:06 -0500
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: 350 engine in that 1969 Olds 442 convertible on ebay

Search of seller list and completed items shows that this is the 3rd time in
30 days he has sold this same car.  Hmmmmm....

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Witt [mailto:rocketscience442@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:00 PM
> To: NYMUSCLECARS@aol.com
> Subject: 350 engine in that 1969 Olds 442 convertible on ebay
> 
> 
> >From: NYMUSCLECARS@aol.com
> >To: rocketscience442@hotmail.com
> >Subject: Re: 1969 Olds 442 convertible on ebay
> >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:43:55 -0500
> >
> >Hello again.
> >Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.
> >
> >The 69 Olds 442 Convertible on ebay ended at $11,100 but I 
> haven't heard 
> >from the high bidder and he has an unpublished number, so 
> I'm trying to get 
> >in touch with other bidders to see what they top offer is.
> >
> >Got some information that I found on the car:
> >
> >1) stamping on the heads is "8"
> >2) Intake has "411990" and "D2 AV" stamped on the rear
> >3) did not see the number on the front of the block, real hard to see
> >4) top of the water pump has "395558" on it with a large "2" 
> next to it
> =============
> That's what I was afraid of
> Engine looks way too narrow to be a 455
> That is -almost- the lamest 350 available. I guess the 
> 1977-up 350, or a 260 
> or 307 might be worse.
> 
> What you have there is a 1973-76 smog era low compression 350 
> engine. Worst 
> heads, heavy iron intake with EGR.
> 
> All these secrets are revealed in the FAQ files available via 
> 442.com.... 
> Please feel free to consult there with future Olds ID tasks.
> 
> 
> >COWL TAG:
> >
> >ST 69 33667   LAN  232549 BODY
> >TR 337               51 A PNT
> >    12C
> =============
> 12C = built 3rd week of December
> I could look up the trim and paint if it matters.
> 69 = 1969, duh
> 33667 = 3-Olds; 36- Cutlass V8 line; 67- Convertible style
> Despair not that the body tag does says "Cutlass" [3667 
> series] whereas the 
> VIN says "442" [4467 series]- (I believe) All the Lansing 
> built 68-9 442's 
> are body tagged as Cutlass. THAT IS NORMAL. [I have a '68 442 
> W30 Convert., 
> it's also a Cutlass body].
> 
> 
> >Thanks and please get back to me asap if still interested, 
> and let me know 
> >what your top offer would be.
> >I can be reached at (917) 749-4302
> >David
> ==============
> I cannot swing that, even if we value the engine at zero, 
> which is about 
> right- I just sold a similar engine on ebay last week for $30 
> or so. I do 
> however pass along to more wealthy acquaintances such deals. 
> It'd be a GREAT 
> car to put an original 400, or a 455 or better yet a 425 into 
> and do it up 
> right.
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
> 
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
> 
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:28:35 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"

Hey, wait a sec - the trans going south doesn't account for the "Random 
Misfire" code.
According to what I've been able to find, that basically means a lean 
misfire. So, I may still be looking at  a fuel problem.
Dang it, I'm probably going to have to go to the dealer for this...

krw
On Nov 16, 2004, at 10:58 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:02:10 -0600
> From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
>
> Crud.
> This was *not* what I wanted to hear. The bloody thing doesn't even
> have 100K on it yet. I just changed the fluid and filter in the trans
> (that thing holds 4 *quarts* of fluid!)
> Nuts. One of the most expensive items on the @#$% car, and we still
> have a couple of years to go on the note.
>
> krw
> On Nov 15, 2004, at 10:32 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:25:19 -0500
>> From: Jay Britt <jbritt67@cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
>>
>> I've seen this problem with several Astro vans at the company where I
>> used to work. Even the older models (95-96) had similar problems with
>> OD.
>>
>> Jay
>> - ----------------------------------------------------------
>> From: Joehume@aol.com
>>
>> Overdrive is going bad, had that problem with our Aurora.
>> JoeH
>>
>>
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:44:47 -0800
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement

Hadn't thought about that........, good point!

Rick
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Wright" <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement


> Nope. Probably Propane-based, but I have no more info that what's on 
> their website.
> I choose not to worry about a few ounces of potentially flammable 
> refrigerant in a car carrying 30 gallons of gas and 4-6 quarts of oil, 
> among other things.
> 
> krw
> On Nov 16, 2004, at 10:58 AM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:41:25 -0800
> > From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> > Subject: Re: R-12 replacement
> >
> > Hey Kevin: It says it's a Hydrocarbon, do you happen to know which one?
> > Rick
> >
> On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...
> 
> Kevin Wright                                         
> krwright@sbcglobal.net
> Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
> http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html
> 
> '71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
> http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html
> 
> Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
> And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
> ...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
> parts if someone doesn't buy it!
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:40:26 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"

Thanks - my wife's research today yielded some mention of this 
phenomenon. I'll take a look at the link when I can.
The neat thing about the Vortec V6 is that all 6 injectors are easily 
reachable - they're at the rear center of the manifold, and feed to the 
intake ports via plastic lines with pintle valves on the ends. Strange 
setup. but since they're at the rear, all I have to do is pull the 
doghouse.
First, though, a few more bottles of Techron, and exclusive use of 
Chevron fuel.

krw
On Nov 17, 2004, at 1:50 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:26:24 -0500
> From: Greg Pruett <gregp@connect-one.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
>
> - --=======641661=======
> Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-67FB29D8; 
> charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> At 08:46 AM 11/15/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> My wife's 2000 Astro van is having a bit of an issue, and I'm not sure
>> what the heck is going on.
>>
>> Under light throtte and cruising the van will "stutter". It's just a
>> little series of pauses, not enough to cause any bucking. Almost feels
>> like being buffeted by a strong headwind, but, of course, it's not. It
>> does throw a code occasionally - random misfire on one or more 
>> cylinders
>> is what Autozones scantool says.
>
>
> I'm not much of a late-model "brain" but some late-model GM cars and 
> trucks
> are having trouble with sticky fuel injectors.
>
> http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic182246.htm
>
> I'm wondering if your random misfire code is from a sticky injector.  
> from
> what I've read, if you have a sticky injector(s), you can run some 
> techron
> through it.  If that doesn't help you can try getting them cleaned.  If
> that doesn't work, the injectors have to be replaced.
>
> Just a thought.
> Good luck.
>
> Greg Pruett
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:45:48 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT

I'll sell you a decent one for $500 - comes with the rest of a '71 'S' 
Holiday Coupe, minus engine and trans...
:)
Seriously - I'm really surprised that none of you up in the land of the 
fabled Steel Termite (insecticus rusticus) haven't jumped on this 
virtually rust free Texas body and chassis. C'mon - all I need is the 
quarter panel. I could probably make more that $500 selling the parts, 
but it's so *solid*...

krw
On Nov 17, 2004, at 1:50 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:36:23 -0600
> From: "Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca>
> Subject: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
>
>
> Greetings, list:
>
> I've been very quiet for the past year... work is really intense, and
> I'm sorting out many new responsibilities.
>
> However, I do find a bit of time to look after the slow restoration of
> my 442.  It's a 1970 442 with a muncie and a 455, w25 hood, 3.42,
> completely stock, 69,000 miles. The interior and the some of the sheet
> metal need the most attention.
>
> I really would like to find a usable deck lid for this car.  If anyone
> on the list has a line on one, please let me know.  With the rising
> value of CDN dollar I may actually be able to buy some stuff for my 
> car!
>
> P.S. Chris W. --->  I found a local sport wheel that is correct, and 
> the
> price was reasonable.  Thanks for looking for me.  I know that I 
> shoulda
> got back to you sooner, sorry.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ian Dixon
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:34:23 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement

Right, they talk about that on the Envirosafe website. There is no 
restriction on second generation replacement refrigerants. You can only 
replace R-12 with approved refrigerants, but you can replace R-134a 
with pretty much anything. The law says that you actually have to do 
the 134a conversion, and prohibits 'sham' conversions, where you just 
put the 134a fittings on and go straight to the second-generation 
stuff, but how are they going to tell?
Some states have outlawed hydrocarbon refrigerants in mobile 
applications, though. Purely a reactionary move, since it's unlikely 
that they really know what would happen in the event of an accident. 
There are several studies of HC refrigerants available on the web - 
most of them from Australia for some reason. The upshot is that an 
explosion is highly unlikely, and even if a leak somehow got lit in an 
accident, it would pretty much put itself out because the speed of the 
escaping gas is faster than the flame front. Certainly no more 
dangerous than that tankful of highly volatile fuel there in the 
back...
texas happens to be one of the states that has outlawed HCs, so I'm 
technically illegal. If my car didn't have a POA valve, or I had found 
out how to adjust it before I charged it (just found out that this 
year), I might have tried 134a. I've replaced all the o-rings in the 
hoses and fittings, but I'm still concerned about the seals inside the 
compressor (original A-6.) I've also read that it isn't even necessary 
to replace the hoses with barrier hoses to convert to 134a (I did, 
because my hoses were leaking.) apparently, they've discovered that the 
mineral oil in a 12a system soaks into the hose and provides an 
acceptable barrier to the 134a molecules.
A more efficient condenser core would be nice. The newest stuff is 
parallel-flow (like a radiator) rather than multi-pass back-and-forth 
like our OEM units.

krw
On Nov 17, 2004, at 1:50 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:59:40 -0500
> From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
> Subject: Re: R-12 replacement
>
> At 08:51 PM 11/15/04 -0600, krw wrote:
>> I'm using Envirosafe: http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm
>> It works with the POA valve on my '70. That's the only real reason I
>> went with it. Works fairly well.
>> FWIW - it only costs $20 to get the license (Section 609):
>> http://www.epatest.com/
>
> Isn't there some weird fluke in the law that says you can NOT use a
> hydrocarbon to replace R-12, but you *can* use a hydrocarbon to 
> replace a
> different refrigerant?
>
> Thus, technically, by the letter of the law, you'd have to convert your
> R-12 to R-134a or another legal substitute, then convert that over to 
> ES-12?
>
> Or at least, that it's supposed to use the R-134a fittings?  Something 
> like
> that...
>
> 	- Joe Vahabzadeh
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:00:06 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT

At 04:45 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>I'll sell you a decent one for $500 - comes with the rest of a '71 'S' 
>Holiday Coupe, minus engine and trans...
>:)
>Seriously - I'm really surprised that none of you up in the land of the 
>fabled Steel Termite (insecticus rusticus) haven't jumped on this 
>virtually rust free Texas body and chassis. C'mon - all I need is the 
>quarter panel. I could probably make more that $500 selling the parts, but 
>it's so *solid*...

You can't believe HOW MUCH I'd love to grab that car of yours, but you're 
half a country away. :(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:05:45 -0600
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement

The whole hydrocarbon refrigerant issue is political.  The 
COs with the patents are trying to get any competition 
outlawed.  The "flamability" thing is just an excuse 
(and a pretty poor one) to cover their real motives.  

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:34:23 -0600 Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
writes:
> Right, they talk about that on the Envirosafe website. There is no 
> restriction on second generation replacement refrigerants. You can 
> only 
> replace R-12 with approved refrigerants, but you can replace R-134a 
> with pretty much anything. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:55:12 -0600
From: Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"

Greg, my man, I think you hit it right on the head! The symptoms fit 
the bill exactly. Now if only I was in California, where the state, 
through CARD, has forced GM to fix the problem under an extended 
warranty. At least I can point them at the TSB, and I know about what 
to pay for the service. Way cheaper than a 4L60E.

Speaking of the TSB, does anyone have a subscription to Alldata? I'd 
like to see the full text of TSB 00-06-04-003B

krw
On Nov 17, 2004, at 1:50 PM, oldsmobile-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:26:24 -0500
> From: Greg Pruett <gregp@connect-one.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"
>
> - --=======641661=======
> Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-67FB29D8; 
> charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> At 08:46 AM 11/15/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> My wife's 2000 Astro van is having a bit of an issue, and I'm not sure
>> what the heck is going on.
>>
>> Under light throtte and cruising the van will "stutter". It's just a
>> little series of pauses, not enough to cause any bucking. Almost feels
>> like being buffeted by a strong headwind, but, of course, it's not. It
>> does throw a code occasionally - random misfire on one or more 
>> cylinders
>> is what Autozones scantool says.
>
>
> I'm not much of a late-model "brain" but some late-model GM cars and 
> trucks
> are having trouble with sticky fuel injectors.
>
> http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic182246.htm
>
> I'm wondering if your random misfire code is from a sticky injector.  
> from
> what I've read, if you have a sticky injector(s), you can run some 
> techron
> through it.  If that doesn't help you can try getting them cleaned.  If
> that doesn't work, the injectors have to be replaced.
>
> Just a thought.
> Good luck.
>
> Greg Pruett
On digest mode, so I'm a little slow...

Kevin Wright                                         
krwright@sbcglobal.net
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX                             
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/70Olds.html

'71 Cutlass S for sale, less engine and trans: 
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/olds/71_cutlass.html

Snoopy: 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Sports Coupe - It wants to be a W-31! 
And have EFI, 4-wheel discs, a 6-speed, a turbo or two... :)
...and a '71 Holiday Coupe less engine/transmission for sale - it'll be 
parts if someone doesn't buy it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:32:58 -0800
From: Jeremy Higdon <jeremy@sgi.com>
Subject: is the 425 the best olds engine?

Why is the 425 better than a 400 or 455?


> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:59:46 -0500
> From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
> Subject: 350 engine in that 1969 Olds 442 convertible on ebay
> 
> ==============
> I cannot swing that, even if we value the engine at zero, which is about 
> right- I just sold a similar engine on ebay last week for $30 or so. I do 
> however pass along to more wealthy acquaintances such deals. It'd be a GREAT 
> car to put an original 400, or a 455 or better yet a 425 into and do it up 
> right.
> - -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:53:00 -0800
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement

Well, I am sold; you fella's convinced me, Thanks for the advise. I
shuddered at being "forced" to put R-134a into my 76 98. It's air blows at
least 20 degrees colder than my 97 4Runner which uses R-134a. When it is 100
out, that big old car can give you goose bumps on max. cool. While there are
many technological improvements out that can really be a solid benefit for
the old Olds.. R-134a in my shade tree opinion is a step backward.  I really
hate politics!

Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe@juno.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: R-12 replacement


> The whole hydrocarbon refrigerant issue is political.  The
> COs with the patents are trying to get any competition
> outlawed.  The "flamability" thing is just an excuse
> (and a pretty poor one) to cover their real motives.
>
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:34:23 -0600 Kevin Wright <krwright@sbcglobal.net>
> writes:
> > Right, they talk about that on the Envirosafe website. There is no
> > restriction on second generation replacement refrigerants. You can
> > only
> > replace R-12 with approved refrigerants, but you can replace R-134a
> > with pretty much anything.
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:00:02 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?

At 07:32 PM 11/17/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>Why is the 425 better than a 400 or 455?

Large bore for unshrouded valves, short-stroke forged crank, .921 lifters 
and a good rod-length/stroke ratio.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:10:26 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT

At 04:45 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, Kevin Wright wrote:
>Seriously - I'm really surprised that none of you up in the land of the 
>fabled Steel Termite (insecticus rusticus) haven't jumped on this 
>virtually rust free Texas body and chassis. C'mon - all I need is the 
>quarter panel. I could probably make more that $500 selling the parts, but 
>it's so *solid*...


Heck Kevin.  I'd buy it myself, except for the various unfinished projects 
around here ('68 442, '83 bmw, '65 caddy, new house, bare acre of dirt)
If I drug home another one, I'd have a widowed wife looking for a new 
hubby. : )

M


Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:17:53 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: OT: Astro van "stuttering"

At 07:55 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, Kevin Wright wrote:
>Speaking of the TSB, does anyone have a subscription to Alldata? I'd like 
>to see the full text of TSB 00-06-04-003B


Kevin,
Alldata has a 1 vehicle subscription rate of $25 or so per year ($15 for 
subsequent vehicles).  I've considered the subscription for my '92 F*rd, 
but I'm leery of their info for 30-40 yr old cars. I met a guy at a recent 
car show/swap meet who may have info like that.  No guarantees, but 
business card as follows:

Obsolete and Hard to Find Oldsmobile Parts
Bob Bakinowski
1524 S St Tropaz Pl
Tucson, AZ 85713
(520) 624-8029




Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:22:04 -0500
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT

Hello
I rememeber the name Ian but(i must be gettin old:) what is your exact location again?
I have a lid that could be used..its not the best,,but when in need.
I could take pics.
Hope everything is workin out ok.
Good luck!
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.
58 88 J2
72 Cutlass Convert.
72 Cutlass(Bu*ck430)

"Ian Dixon" <IDixon@sbrc.ca> wrote:

> 
>Greetings, list:
>
>I've been very quiet for the past year... work is really intense, and
>I'm sorting out many new responsibilities.  
>
>However, I do find a bit of time to look after the slow restoration of
>my 442.  It's a 1970 442 with a muncie and a 455, w25 hood, 3.42,
>completely stock, 69,000 miles. The interior and the some of the sheet
>metal need the most attention.
>
>I really would like to find a usable deck lid for this car.  If anyone
>on the list has a line on one, please let me know.  With the rising
>value of CDN dollar I may actually be able to buy some stuff for my car!
>
>P.S. Chris W. --->  I found a local sport wheel that is correct, and the
>price was reasonable.  Thanks for looking for me.  I know that I shoulda
>got back to you sooner, sorry.
>
>Kind regards,
>Ian Dixon
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:08:41 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?

All true.

Good to note that Mr. Witt was speaking to the ebay seller about the 1969
400 that would have come stock in a '69 442 (similar for production
purposes, yet definitely inferior, to the 455) and not about the "early
400", which I am led to believe is a) very hard to come by and b) a very
nice mill.  I am further inclined to say that you'll never find anyone who
knows what they're talking about say the '68-'69 400 was better than a 425
or 455 in any way, but not the same story with the early 400.

Somebody who actually owns one may want to add more...

At 12:00 AM 11/18/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>At 07:32 PM 11/17/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>>Why is the 425 better than a 400 or 455?
>
>Large bore for unshrouded valves, short-stroke forged crank, .921 lifters 
>and a good rod-length/stroke ratio.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:03:12 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: is the 425 the best olds engine?

> Why is the 425 better than a 400 or 455?


For these reasons, in the following comparison of engine parameters:

425 =
1) 4.125" bore with a 3.975" stroke. Slightly over-square in displacement
for the best balance of torque generation and top-end HP.
2) Forged steel crank. That says it all right there.
3) 1.76 rod length to stroke ratio. With 1.7 ratio being the ideal lower
number, the 425 fits perfectly. ?If custom rods with a 7.25" rod length are
used, one gets a 1.82 RL/S. With a 7.312" rod length, 1.84 RL/S. That puts
the 425 in the same class as 426/440 MOPAR wedges, but the Olds has much
better heads.
4) The distance across the largest valves for an Olds head will be about 4".
That fits inside a 4.125" bore without shrouding.

Early 400 ('65-'67) =
All the advantages of the 425, but with 25 less cubes. The engine is
basically square with a 4" bore and a 3.975" stroke, which is not quite as
efficient as being slightly over-square, but it will do if that's what
you've got. The largest size valves still fit, barely, with just a little
bit of shrouding due to the 4" bore.

455 =
1) With a 4.125" bore and a 4.25" stroke, the engine becomes under-square,
resulting in excellent torque while sacrificing top-end revving ability and
top-end HP. To get the top-end back, at lot of money has to be spent.
2) Only has a nodular iron crank. Mid-'70s engines had a cast iron crank.
That's not good. A high torque engine will flex a cast crank while a forged
steel crank will just stick it's tongue out, saying "Naya, naya, naya, can't
hurt me!" If you can find one of the very few forged steel cranks for a 455,
then you've got it made.
3) Crummy 1.58 rod length to stroke ratio. If you put longer 7" rods from a
425 into a 455 (using custom pistons), you can get a 1.65 RL/S. A 7.173" rod
length is the absolute longest rod that can fit in a 455, giving a 1.69
RL/S. That isn't even close to a stock 425 RL/S. (Stock rod length is
6.735".)
4) 30 more cubes than a 425, which with the proper engine mods and money, wi
ll help give incredible power.
5) Uses the same valve arrangement, exactly.

Late 400 ('68-'69)
1) Has a poor under-square arrangement with a 3.875" bore and a 4.25"
stroke. The engine will produce tons of torque, but above 5000, it can't
breathe.
2) The small bore drastically interferes with the largest valves available.
3) Has the same crank material and RL/S problem as a 455.
4) It's a good street engine and will last a very long time, but ultimate
power production is limited. The handicaps can't be overcome.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:30:47 -0500
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT

> You can't believe HOW MUCH I'd love to grab that car of 
> yours, but you're half a country away. :(

Same here.  I even have a 455 and TH400 sitting on the garage floor.  Anyone
driving from Texas to Michigan with an empty trailer ;-)

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Barry [mailto:rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:00 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Deck lid for 1970 442 2-door HT
> 
> 
> At 04:45 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >I'll sell you a decent one for $500 - comes with the rest of 
> a '71 'S' 
> >Holiday Coupe, minus engine and trans...
> >:)
> >Seriously - I'm really surprised that none of you up in the 
> land of the 
> >fabled Steel Termite (insecticus rusticus) haven't jumped on this 
> >virtually rust free Texas body and chassis. C'mon - all I 
> need is the 
> >quarter panel. I could probably make more that $500 selling 
> the parts, but 
> >it's so *solid*...
> 

> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:01:25 -0600
From: "Stephen Reed" <stephenreed@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: R-12 replacement

Kevin,

> There are several studies of HC refrigerants available on the web -
> most of them from Australia for some reason.

I'm sure you prob. know that there is "R-12" available in Mexico.  I have
heard about people getting scammed, when the container has propane instead
of R12 in it.

Buyer beware....

I'm holding onto my 12 1-Lb cans like gold!

Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:04:05 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Gots a Jeep

1988
has AC
Not rusty at all
runs OK, has electrical gremlins [turn signals] nothing to worry about
168,442 miles, just broke in
New tires worth a good $300-400 right there.

Rocky is now relegated fully to Olds Work Service
Maybe I can get a plow on him and save my back this year.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:20:08 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: 68 Toro tries to kill me

Finally got to attempt to extract the 68 Toro drivetrain from the frame 
cradle last night. It tried to kill me again. This is the '68 Toro that was 
dangling from a rope a week or 2 ago getting it removed from the back line 
of my collection. Separated the body from the engine/ trans/ front frame at 
the farm, got engine/trans/frame onto a hood, dragged it up to the tree and 
chain [boom truck went home].

Being more clever than industrious, like many, I decided to elevate the 
thing not by ratcheting 1000 lbs 3 ft with the power pullers, but using a 
steel cable and Rocky [the truck]. Only pulley block available is the puny 
things on the power pullers. Cable, however, is 5/16. A bit large. Sort of 
fits.

Lift one worked ok, but angle was wrong, Set it down and adjusted chains. 
Lift 2 got it almost high enough, then the pulley jammed... pulled harder... 
and cable snapped at the pulley. Branch sprang back up, flung pulley away 
and unlooped the chain. Cable came at Rocky, no damage though. Driveline 
dropped to the ground.

Back to Plan A. Slow and worky power pullers. Works great.

OK, now it's on the large trailer here in town. Takes up the whole driveway. 
Time to get it out of here. FORGED CRANK maybe!!! It is a 68 Toro!

Start work after dark, after dinner. Must be tired, yawning every 20 
seconds. Can't think good. Should be in bed. Gotta get this done...

Cursory inspection shows c notch in crank. Darn. Not forged. Also, one 
piston is 6" down in the bore. Since the stroke is 4.25", that does not seem 
right. F3 block is presumably history, maybe not.

Gotta get engine/ transaxle out of the cradle in order to a) put the framey 
thing to use, and b) get at any good parts lieft in there.

Engine no turn because of rust and such. Therefore tork converter does not 
come off. Therefore engine has to go fwd about 6" to disengage trans. Axle 
to rH side prevents that. Gotta disco the axles from the trans.

To do that, gotta turn axles to gain access to all the bolts. Which came out 
surprisingly easy.

Axles no turn. Disk brakes [RARE 4-piston type calipers] got death grip on 
the rotors. Calipers gotta come off. 2 bolts. One blocked by the small hard 
brake line running from rubber line to caliper. Loosen brake line, w/o 
destroying it, trying to save ALL Parts for the dual-engine '58 wagon 
here.... Will not come off  the rubber line.

Gotta remove rubber line's anchor- a strap held under the top Ball Joint's 
nut. Get them big nuts off- BARELY enough clearance to get them parts out 
with axles in place- WHEW

An hour just to get the axles to rotate. Remove axle to trans bolts, split 
them joints, Trans mounts not a problem, READY TO LIFT.

Position crane. Extend boom and legs as far as possible to access it. Well, 
one leg not all the way out, and I never move the rear legs out. Lift from 
back of engine, approx balance point of the eng/trans asm. Got it up a few 
inches, REALLY tired by now. Success. Step back to admire the work.

Crane tips over sideways. Drops 600lbs of eng/trans on the trailer. luckily 
shot the crane bottom away from me, trailer prevented too much crane 
movement. Scary though. Re-set crane with all legs extended properly. At 
back of trailer. Does not reach the unit, but drags it over and lifts it OK.

Remove RH axle unit, and voila, the 455 slides right on out, just had to 
sacrifice the flexplate to remove the tork converter.

Got as far a oil pan off, nasty watery oil mix, but NOT RUSTY, so crank 
should come out OK. Nodular AT of course, just sold the last one I had, so 
that's a good thing to have.

Original timing sprocket still in place, still has its plastic teeth?!?!?

Anyone need a Toro oil pan, $50? Orphan main caps? Cheap block with caps? 
Toro Final Drive 3.08 ratio? Transaxle for internal parts [busted 
bellhouse]?

Contact me directly if so.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:06:16 -0500
From: Tom Bejma <tomcb@prplastics.com>
Subject: RE: R-12 replacement

Was just in Tijuana and San Louis (Yuma, AZ boarder town) for business.
Residents at both places said you can bring your car over the boarder and
have your R-12 recharged for $20 while you wait.  One guy had his compressor
replaced and a re-charge for $40.  I'm sure not having any evacuation
equipment and simply venting into the atmosphere keeps the price down ;-)

Tom Bejma
Harrison Twp., MI
69 Cutlass S Convertible
[H/O Reproduction]


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Reed [mailto:stephenreed@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:01 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: R-12 replacement
> 
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> > There are several studies of HC refrigerants available on the web -
> > most of them from Australia for some reason.
> 
> I'm sure you prob. know that there is "R-12" available in 
> Mexico.  I have
> heard about people getting scammed, when the container has 
> propane instead
> of R12 in it.
> 
> Buyer beware....
> 
> I'm holding onto my 12 1-Lb cans like gold!
> 
> Steve Reed
> '68 Cutlass
> '70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
> Austin, TX
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:06:29 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 68 Toro tries to kill me

> Lift 2 got it almost high enough, then the pulley jammed... pulled
harder...
> and cable snapped at the pulley. Branch sprang back up, flung pulley away
> and unlooped the chain. Cable came at Rocky, no damage though.


Good thing it didn't snap at you. It'd be all over in a nanosecond.


> Crane tips over sideways. Drops 600lbs of eng/trans on the trailer.
luckily
> shot the crane bottom away from me, trailer prevented too much crane
> movement.


That's what happens when you're too tired.

So what's the deal with that piston being 6" down in the hole???

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5094
*********************************
