
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, November 7 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5084



Funky Oil Pan drain plug is 1965 issue
Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????
Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????
Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????
dual engine Toro - 4501979523 (Ends Nov-12-04 164847 PST)
de beaming rods / Shot peening
Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????
OT- water injection
RE: OT- water injection
SE
Water Pump
UPDATE: Check engine light on/strong exhaust fumes
Re: Water Pump
Re: Water Pump
[OT] today show set

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:02:22 -0500
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Funky Oil Pan drain plug is 1965 issue

Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 04:59:50 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????

So, I just acquired a 425 pan from one of our more illustrious members, and
it's got this humungous drain plug with the 8-point (octagon) wrench
"goes-into", see here:
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/425_Pan_Cleaned_Up-a.jpg

Problem is, it doesn't have a magnet on it. I want a magnet on my drain
plug. Does anybody happen to make one that'll fit these pans??? I don't
know what size that bung is yet, will take it out after the paint dries
tomorrow:
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/425_Pan_Painted-a.jpg

Thanks,
SteveH
=====================
Ooooh, ooooh, me!
That's a 1965 BB pan.
I have the Special Tool to fit that plug too. Bought a card of them at the 
Nats. Bonney brand 8-point.
Impact might be the way to remove it if really stuck [and no oil to gush 
out]

Otherwise, use a solid member square drive tool- ratchets and breakers have 
that ball retainer thing, which severely weakens the square member.

Since the pan is off, just glue a magnet inside on the wall. Who cares if 
you never get to see the stuff? It works for just about every Auto Trans on 
the road. When I was working at Trans R&R, I noticed they had 100's of 
magnets stuck to the ceiling in the teardown room.

Barring that, get one of the REALLY GOOD magnetic pickup tools, like Mac or 
Snap-on, and extract its magnet and glue it to the drain plug that you have.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:19:50 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????

> I just measured it: it's 7/8" and a very fine thread, 20 TPI according to
> the calipers.
> Wonder what years 425s used this drain plug???


Yeah. That's the same drain plug in the oil pan of our '65 F-85 330, stock.
I couldn't remember which car had what, so I went out and squiggled under
and looked. Also, the oil pans on the '65 Vista Cruiser 330 and the '64
Cutlass 330 are the same, 7/8". The oil pan off the '66 425 and the '68
Toronado sump bottom welded onto the bottom of Thunder's oil pan are the
smaller 1/2" drain plug.

I would have to look out at the land to see what type of drain plugs the 2
403s and the 2 350s stored there have in their oil pans.


> It has a copper washer.


Yup. Very effective sealing.


> I had been thinking I could drill it out, and tap it for a standard 1/2"
> type. Unfortunately, it's too thin on the inside surface to withstand
being
> tapped. If it could be filled with braze or weld, then that would work.


You don't want to do that. That big drain plug is a nice drain plug.

What you could do, since you do have a fairly wide surface on that large
drain plug, is to epoxy a magnet to its baskside. There's enough room. Devon
Epoxy Steel Putty should be chemically stable enough to withstand continuous
hot oil emmersion. The Right Stuff gasket sealer might also work to glue a
magnet to the drain plug.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:46:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????

OK, so both Chris and Milton agree the '65 BB oil pan had the 7/8" bung
plug. And both suggest using a good hi-temp, oil-resistant epoxy to attach
a magnet to it. Jim Zito mentioned Barco or something like that last night
that's used to attach thermistors to turbines. I wonder if there's another
usable epoxy I might find locally?

Now, let's discuss oil pump pickups  ;o|  The old-looking pickup in the 3rd
picture below is my original; the shiny, new one is what I bought several
weeks ago. I won't mention brand names right now to avoid anyone picking
one design over the other just going by brand.

The thing is.... notice the opening of the old and new pickups aren't in
the same place. The opening in the new pickup is actually at the rear of
the pan which seems to make perfect sense to me. The brand new pickup I
just received the other day was packaged exactly the same way: in a sealed
blue plastic bag, with a small sheet of installation instructions. The
exact same sheet of instructions, in fact: right down to the "critical"
dimension of the height of the bottom of the pickup actually being obscured
and unreadable on both sheets.

BUT... the latest new pickup has the opening exactly where my old stock
pickup does.  The location of that opening is the ONLY difference I can
really see between the two new pickups; that is, the latest new pickup has
the opening where my old pickup does. Furthermore.... I found two other old
oil pumps in the basement, one from a '68 350, the other from an '84 307.
Both have the opening just as it is on my old pickup.

I'm wondering whether anyone thinks the relocation of that opening toward
the rear of the pan might have been a manufacturing mistake?? Wouldn't it
seem that having the opening at the rear, where it would be submerged in
the pool of oil under acceleration, make more sense??

Here are the pics of the two pickups, along with the pile of nylon teeth I
found lodged at the rear of my old pickup:
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/88Crapice_Oil_Pickup-a.jpg
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/88Crapice_Oil_Pickup-b.jpg
http://members.dandy.net/~k0xp/Oldsmobile/88Crapice_Oil_Pickup-c.jpg

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:22:02 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????

> OK, so both Chris and Milton agree the '65 BB oil pan had the 7/8" bung
> plug.


Chris said big block and I have them on 3 330s.


> And both suggest using a good hi-temp, oil-resistant epoxy to attach
> a magnet to it. Jim Zito mentioned Barco or something like that last night
> that's used to attach thermistors to turbines. I wonder if there's another
> usable epoxy I might find locally?


Devcon is available locally. It should be in hardware stores in 2 small
carded tubes, at a minimum. However, buying a one pound kit would be an
investment, for you *will* use it.


> The thing is.... notice the opening of the old and new pickups aren't in
> the same place.


Use the new, shiny silver pickup. I have no idea why the old pickup is
configured the way it is.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:31:28 -0600
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: dual engine Toro - 4501979523 (Ends Nov-12-04 164847 PST)

That car is only a few miles from my new house.   It has 
a THM325 trans in the front, and a THM425 in the rear, 
I think both 2.73 ratio.  Not very appropriate ratio for a 
very powerful car with very high speed potential.  The 
rear engine has a radiator with a couple of electric fans, 
which don't stand a chance to cool it under load.  The 
original design ran both engines to a front radiator with 
road speed air, a better idea.  

He originally said it was lenghtened 11", now it says 
21".  The idea was that the rear engine was in the 
trunk, instead of sitting in the back seat, good idea.
I wonder where the gas tank is, it had better be a 
really big one.  

The guy who tried to sell it a few years ago has been 
over to my Aurora house.  I showed how I put a THM425 
trans in the front of my 79 E car.  He liked it, but I don't 
think he did it.  Better yet, a reversed CASPRO power 
drive could give a 2.40 ratio for that high speed run, 
and switch pitch is possible too.  

He said he had driven it with either engine, but not with 
both at the same time.  Getting those things to work 
together is a pretty serious problem, some people say 
they have done it, but I wonder.  

That car would be so blindingly fast and such a gas hog, 
I can't see much practical use for it.  It seems a shame, 
but from here it looks like a source of a couple new 455 
engines and other drive train parts.  I don't see much 
point in going over and trying to get it into my garage.  

6 Nov 2004  "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
> Yeat another 2-engine HHO-esque car !?!?!

> Chris Witt

> >From: "CutlassS" <CutlassS@halun.com>
> >To: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
> >Subject: eBay item 4501979523 (Ends Nov-12-04 164847 PST) - 
> Oldsmobile Toronado
> >Date:6 Nov 2004 
> >
> >Chris check this is out!
> >-harv

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=450197
9523&category=31865

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:02:15 -0500
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: de beaming rods / Shot peening

Hello
Spent a few hrs today de beaming my rods,,gets boring fast!
Read up on the net bouts how to do it and got the heads porter guru to show me last night.
The multi speed pedal with makita grinder and stone works great.
Then i used a 200 grit small dia. wheel to polish a bit,,,followed by some 220 grit sandpaper by hand a few passes.
Ya can see the cast ridge in the middle of the rod in one of the pics,,before and after.
I heard tell that some will charge you$$ for shot peening but really dont know what they are doin?
Shot peening is a lost art?
A certain number of passes or direction or something?
Took some pics today of rods.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1100967928900_1106_001.jpg
   http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1098483543127_1106_003.jpg 
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1101083470982_1106_002.jpg 
  http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1097736709714_1106_004.jpg 
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1100882697536_1106_006.jpg 
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1099154984692_1106_005.jpg 
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1098085218626_1106_007.jpg
Good luck!
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:03:31 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 425 Magnetic Oil Drain Plug?????

> I just measured it: it's 7/8" and a very fine thread, 20 TPI according to
> the calipers.

- ----------------

You got one of the early production '65 pans.  Odd.  Some later pans came
with a drain plug that looked similar on the outside, but were standard 1/2"
20 thread.  Try a truck or industrial supply place for a magnetic plug.
Since the pan is off, you could install a bung for a regular 1/2" plug.   I
think that is the approach I'd take.   Tack weld it to be safe.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:01:54 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: OT- water injection

A friend is intending on putting a supercharger on his motorcycle and wants
to know how to calculate how much water he'll need to inject in the mix for
cooling. The numbers he's seen are based on percentage of weight (about 1/3)
of the fuel consumed.

Is there a way to calculate the quantity and therefore weight of fuel that
will be used in any given engine under boost? Simplistically, I know you can
figure CFM of the engine at some RPM and by the assumed ratio of 14.1 figure
weight of air and fuel. But that would change with temperature and boost..

Umm... Milt? Chris?

p.s. He wants to make 100 hp from a 50 ci twin.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:19:56 -0600
From: "Eric Beaupre" <ebeaupre@eserv.biz>
Subject: RE: OT- water injection

I'm not sure what injection computer system he's using but the computer has
to figure out how much fuel to inject via lookup tables, 02 sensor readings,
etc.  It meters the fuel based on the length of time it opens the injector.

If you were using the same injector for water and fuel you would simply open
the water injector for (1/3)*(Density Fuel/Denisty Water) or whatever ratio
you desired.  However, I'm guessing that since you'll only need to flow a
fraction of water compared to fuel a smaller injector would be used for
water.  You'd have to then add that fudge factor in to the equation.

Eric


- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Dave Cullen
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 9:02 AM
To: Olds List
Subject: OT- water injection


A friend is intending on putting a supercharger on his motorcycle and wants
to know how to calculate how much water he'll need to inject in the mix for
cooling. The numbers he's seen are based on percentage of weight (about 1/3)
of the fuel consumed.

Is there a way to calculate the quantity and therefore weight of fuel that
will be used in any given engine under boost? Simplistically, I know you can
figure CFM of the engine at some RPM and by the assumed ratio of 14.1 figure
weight of air and fuel. But that would change with temperature and boost..

Umm... Milt? Chris?

p.s. He wants to make 100 hp from a 50 ci twin.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:19:05 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: SE

Just returned from 4 days working the Autobody Equipment trade show  (NACE) 
in Vegas. Had 2 passes to SEMA  show but was too busy at our show to take 
the time to go over there. Damn!!!  People coming from there said it was so 
busy on Friday that it was difficult to walk around and see the exhibits. 
They had 180,000 people there!! Our show had about 35,000, a good turnout. 
The guys said Leno's Toro was gorgeous.

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:12:38 -0600
From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
Subject: Water Pump

Working on replacing a water pump today.... Anyone know of any diagrams for
them?  Anything would probably be helpful even general information since
this will be a trial and error situation.

Year: 1989
Make: Oldsmobile
Model: Cutlass Cierra Cruiser (I think)
Engine: 2.8 V6

Wish me luck ;-)

~T


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:11:33 -0600
From: Branson Sparks <bsparks@gosparkle.net>
Subject: UPDATE: Check engine light on/strong exhaust fumes

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Thanks to everyone who replied.
Finally got around to going to AutoZone and borrowing their O2 wrench 
set... their loan-a-tool service is a great deal--put a deposit down and 
when you bring it back it's refunded.

Popped the sensor out, and it was encrusted in carbon and soot... that 
makes sense because when I first got the car it was running really 
badly. Replaced the sensor, disconnected the battery to clear the codes, 
then took it up on the interstate with no problems. Looks like it is 
fixed, though since it was so sooty, I'm thinking replacing the cat 
convertor might not be a bad idea.


Thanks, everybody! Once again, you've saved me trial-and-error.

- --Branson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:38:46 -0600
From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
Subject: Re: Water Pump

Update....

I've got all the bolts out of the old water pump and such, but it won't
budge...why?  Am I missing a bolt or something cause I didn't see anymore.

::counts down til sundown 2.5 hours:: hehe.

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 2:12 PM
Subject: Water Pump


> Working on replacing a water pump today.... Anyone know of any diagrams
for
> them?  Anything would probably be helpful even general information since
> this will be a trial and error situation.
>
> Year: 1989
> Make: Oldsmobile
> Model: Cutlass Cierra Cruiser (I think)
> Engine: 2.8 V6
>
> Wish me luck ;-)
>
> ~T
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
>


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:48:58 -0600
From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
Subject: Re: Water Pump

Nevermind.....was just stuck, had to beat it with a hammer and screwdriver
and all is well....car is now running....still overheating (as it was before
anyhow)...but running nonetheless LOL.


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Water Pump


> Update....
>
> I've got all the bolts out of the old water pump and such, but it won't
> budge...why?  Am I missing a bolt or something cause I didn't see anymore.
>
> ::counts down til sundown 2.5 hours:: hehe.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Torry Crass" <torryc@thinkingimpared.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 2:12 PM
> Subject: Water Pump
>
>
> > Working on replacing a water pump today.... Anyone know of any diagrams
> for
> > them?  Anything would probably be helpful even general information since
> > this will be a trial and error situation.
> >
> > Year: 1989
> > Make: Oldsmobile
> > Model: Cutlass Cierra Cruiser (I think)
> > Engine: 2.8 V6
> >
> > Wish me luck ;-)
> >
> > ~T
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:05:06 -0500
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: [OT] today show set

For anybody following the along, the set that I built for The Today Show
will appear tomorrow morning at 8:45 EST with Katie Kouric and Jim Miller
(author of "The Savvy Senior").

John Nasta

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5084
*********************************
