
oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, September 28 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5035



Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re:  Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems
Re:Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust
Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week
Re: Diagnostics-(long winded)
RE: How to remove a G-Body Speedo needle
Re: Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust
Re: Better deal than GM parts direct
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week
Re: Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION
Re:  Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
FS: NOS "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets
Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week
Re: Balancer Bolt Torque
RE: Balancer Bolt Torque
Re: FS: NOS "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets
Balancer Bolt Remover
Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems
balancer bolt torque
The Olds Engine's Advantages
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages
Re: Balancer Bolt Torque
RE:Olds Eng. Advantages/beehive
RE: Olds Eng. Advantages/beehive
How to remove a G-Body Speedo needle
Re: balancer bolt torque
Re: Better deal than GM parts direct

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:52:26 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

At Monday, 27 September 2004, you wrote:

>>The '65 shop manual shows only 50 fl for the 3/4" fine 
>>threaded bolt on both 330s and 425s. The '64 manual shows 
>>100 fl minimum for a 394. 250 is way too much.
>
>Milt,
>
>The '69 shop manual shows 160 minimum. The '78 shows 200 
>to 310. Those are the two I have handy at the moment.

I suppose it's asking too much to have anyone postulate why the increase 
in torque spec for Olds cranks, apparently after 1967. Perhaps it's 
related to the crank material: cast iron, nodular iron or forged?? 
If so, can we come up with spec for each? At present, it seems all 
the '76+ cranks were cast iron and had the incredible 200-310 ft-
lbs spec. What about the nodular and forged cranks?

And why would this make such a difference, anyhow? What's likely 
to happen should one tighten a cast crank's bolt to only, say, 120 
ft-lbs, in addition to sanding the inside of the balancer bore so 
it's just barely an interference fit (i.e.: almost, but not quite,
slides on without needing to be forced)?

Might one be able to reduce the torque while using modern thread-
locker compounds??

What about the Fluiddamper models: what do they spec the torque at,
and does it vary by engine?

SteveH



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:19:39 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:59:17 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

snip

> > After breaking the nub offn my 1/2" torque wrench,

snip

> I laid the far edge of the panels on the driveway and went to
> work with the torque wrench. The 19"-long panels wound up being twisted
> like pretzels and I pinned the torque wrench at over 150 ft-lbs  ;o((((


> Thanks,
> SteveH

Steve,

I recommend you get a large breaker bar to use for REMOVING the bolts, and 
save your torque wrench for INSTALLING them upon re-assembly. Don't make me 
have to report you to the authorities for "tool abuse".

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:34:34 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems

- -------------------------------1096302874
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
In a message dated 9/27/04 8:57:49 AM Pacific DaylightTime,   
rocketscience442@hotmail.com writes:


>  Coming down to the wire here
> About to notify the unresponsive OCA  members
> Apparently they think that if they ignore the problem it will  go away.
> Nothing could be further from the  truth.
>


Chris,
      I was told right after the Nationals ended  that all of the judging 
sheet information for each car was entered into a  computer, then the judging 
sheets were destroyed.  Then the computer  crashed.  Then the ensuing problems?  
Maybe this is the result of your  ongoing problem?  I also heard that they 
actually wanted the participants  at the awards dinner to "buck up" because they 
lost money on the deal.   Seems they paid for the celebrities' transportation 
and hotel expenses.   Sounds like my ex-wife, or one of her relatives, was in 
charge of the money and  the judging.
Steve D

- -------------------------------1096302874
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/27/04 8:57:49 AM Pacific DaylightTime,&nbsp;=20
rocketscience442@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2><BR>&gt;=20
  Coming down to the wire here<BR>&gt; About to notify the unresponsive OCA=20
  members<BR>&gt; Apparently they think that if they ignore the problem it w=
ill=20
  go away.<BR>&gt; Nothing could be further from the=20
truth.<BR>&gt;</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Chris,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was told right after the Nationals end=
ed=20
that all of the judging sheet information for each car was entered into a=20
computer, then the judging sheets were destroyed.&nbsp; Then the computer=20
crashed.&nbsp; Then the ensuing problems?&nbsp; Maybe this is the result of=20=
your=20
ongoing problem?&nbsp; I also heard that they actually wanted the participan=
ts=20
at the awards dinner to "buck up" because they lost money on the deal.&nbsp;=
=20
Seems they paid for the celebrities' transportation and hotel expenses.&nbsp=
;=20
Sounds like my ex-wife, or one of her relatives, was in charge of the money=20=
and=20
the judging.</DIV>
<DIV>Steve D</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1096302874--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:55:12 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: Re:Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust

Best way to stop underbody rust is the way I did it........move to Arizona. -)~

Joe Varley
       AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:27:52 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week

Greg! Greg! Steve is saying that he's going to play when you're not 
around...

...and... ...and...

...and Ron says he's going to start a political war...

...and... ...and...

...and Rick says he's gonna start emailing in HTML again...

...and I think Chris Witt is making funny faces at me when I'm not looking 
even though I didn't see him doing it but I know he's doing it because I 
just know it.

You gotta make them stop!

- -- Andy (who really needs to get out from babysitting duty because it's been 
three bloody days now and the spouse got to go to the Bears game in 
Minneapolis with her relatives and I said I would gallantly stay home and 
babysit while she gets a chance to get out of the house for a few days and 
jeez it's going to be quite some time before I agree to that again...)

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:34:52 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Diagnostics-(long winded)

>>First - After letting the car sit for a few days, I had a puddle about the
>>size of your head under the car. The weep hole on the water pump was
>>leaking. After driving it, it stopped and hasn't leaked since (couple of
>>weeks).

You're sure it was coming from the weep hole? If you don't have a surge tank 
(overflow tank) on the car, but instead just have an overflow tube down the 
side of the radiator, perhaps the car was burping its excess coolant (if 
any), which would only happen once. Our '69 Pontiac 350 had this 
configuration.

On the other hand, if it was definitely leaking from the weep hole, and you 
have a new one available anyway, I'd go ahead and swap out the old one. I 
doubt your mysteriously-sealed leak is going to stay that way indefinitely.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:38:06 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: How to remove a G-Body Speedo needle

>>I'm trying a little experiment and I need to get the needles off
>>of the gauges from a 1985 Cutlass Rallye Pack.
[...]
>I think I went to a twisting while pulling method on the speedo.

I was wondering the same thing, but I'm not following your answer here: Did 
you remove the needle from the shaft, or did you remove the needle _and_ 
shaft from the gauge assembly? And how do you reattach whichever piece(s) 
were separated? Just press straight back on, or what?

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:43:13 -0500
From: kc <clemke@email.toast.net>
Subject: Re: Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust

I like that idea for me personally, because I love sunny days, and in the
winter those are n short supply in this part of the country.

However, the car gets to "hibernate" all winter in a garage, so it's not the
Midwest snow or road salt that is a problem.



> From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
> Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:55:12 -0700
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re:Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust
> 
> Best way to stop underbody rust is the way I did it........move to Arizona.
> -)~
> 
> Joe Varley
> AZ
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:49:30 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Better deal than GM parts direct

> It bothers me to see that so often - it is simply not true. I was taught
in high school business class that "The customer is king." You can see the
difference here: while the customer can be very, very wrong, he is still
treated civilly and respectfully. It IS possible to tell a customer that he
is wrong, but it must be done tactfully.

The customer IS king. Without him/her, who's going to buy your crap? The
point of that tenet is to emphasize that alienating your customers will in
turn hurt your business. I think this is something that is being lost over
time now that businesses are taking on the belief that they are
indispensible and there is no better alternative for the customer..
At any rate, I was alienated by Dal and his gang. They didn't bother to call
me when they got the part in, and when I DID call to cancel the order, they
told me, "Oh, well, it's here, and you're stuck with it." You're right, I
should have known better than to rely on them to let me know when the part
arrives, that's not THEIR responsibility, right? WRONG...they lost my
business.
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:06:14 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

> I suppose it's asking too much to have anyone postulate why the increase
> in torque spec for Olds cranks, apparently after 1967. Perhaps it's
> related to the crank material: cast iron, nodular iron or forged??


Hmmmm, you've got a point! Consisder this:

394s, '64-'65 330s, '65 425s, all with a torque spec not exceeding 100
pounds, and all have forged steel cranks.

Then, Fred Nissen with a '69 torque spec of 160 on nodular iron cranks and
Pop Hot Rod saying 130 pounds for a 455, which means nodular iron.

Finally, the '79+ spec of 200-310 for cast iron cranks. That's a pattern,
but there's something else.

The '64-'65 V6 did **not** have a forged steel crank and had a torque spec
of 160. I don't know if the V6 crank was nodular iron or straight cast, I
suspect nodular, but I know it wasn't forged.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:11:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week

Andy,

Hear that? The world's smallest violin. :-)



> Greg! Greg! Steve is saying that he's going to play when you're not
> around...
>
> ...and... ...and...
>
> ...and Ron says he's going to start a political war...
>
> ...and... ...and...
>
> ...and Rick says he's gonna start emailing in HTML again...
>
> ...and I think Chris Witt is making funny faces at me when I'm not looking
> even though I didn't see him doing it but I know he's doing it because I
> just know it.
>
> You gotta make them stop!
>
> -- Andy (who really needs to get out from babysitting duty because it's
been
> three bloody days now and the spouse got to go to the Bears game in
> Minneapolis with her relatives and I said I would gallantly stay home and
> babysit while she gets a chance to get out of the house for a few days and
> jeez it's going to be quite some time before I agree to that again...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION

- --0-461871524-1096313158=:76729
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Coming down to the wire here
About to notify the unresponsive OCA members
Apparently they think that if they ignore the problem it will go away.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

<snip>
ANY stories of Problems Fixed, or even not fixed, would be most 
appreciated.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The only issues I've had were more of just me being anal.  I registered my 69 W-31 for Springfield, IL in 98 and NJ in 2000.  Both times the car was listed (in their records) as a 69 442.  yeah, whatever.  I lived with it.  I figured it was useless to try and convince the OLDSMOBILE club of america that this OLDSMOBILE was a W-31 and NOT a 442.  both times, I sent in my registrations well in advance.
 
Chris Smetana
grp442@yahoo.com




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
- --0-461871524-1096313158=:76729
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Coming down to the wire here<BR>About to notify the unresponsive OCA members<BR>Apparently they think that if they ignore the problem it will go away.<BR>Nothing could be further from the truth.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>ANY stories of Problems Fixed, or even not fixed, would be most <BR>appreciated.</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The only issues I've had were more of just me being anal.&nbsp; I registered my 69 W-31 for Springfield, IL in 98 and NJ in 2000.&nbsp; Both times the car was listed (in their records) as a 69 442.&nbsp; yeah, whatever.&nbsp; I lived with it.&nbsp; I figured it was useless to try and convince the OLDSMOBILE club of america that this OLDSMOBILE was a W-31 and NOT a 442.&nbsp; both times, I sent in my registrations well in advance.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris Smetana</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV><p>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com 
- --0-461871524-1096313158=:76729--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:58:50 +0000
From: 62oldsfan@comcast.net
Subject: Re:  Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19899_1096315130_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> I was told right after the Nationals ended that all of the judging sheet 
> information for each car was entered into a computer, then the 
> judging sheets were destroyed.
Uh, I don't think so.  I received mine in the mail about a week and half ago.  Didn't even have to ask for it, or pay the postage.
Paul
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19899_1096315130_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html><body>
<P><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>&gt; I was told right after the Nationals ended that all of the judging sheet <BR>&gt; information for each car was entered into a computer, then the <BR>&gt; judging sheets were destroyed.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Uh, I don't think so.&nbsp; I received mine in the mail about a&nbsp;week and&nbsp;half ago.&nbsp; Didn't even have to ask for it, or pay the postage.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Paul</P></FONT></body></html>

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19899_1096315130_0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:50:00 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

At Monday, 27 September 2004, you wrote:
>Steve,
>
>I recommend you get a large breaker bar to use for 
>REMOVING the bolts, and save your torque wrench for 
>INSTALLING them upon re-assembly. Don't make me have 
>to report you to the authorities for "tool abuse".

Well, heck's bells: how come torque wrenches have scales for both 
CW and CCW direction, then, eh  ;o(((((((  I thot it was so afterward,
you could check into yer fav automotive reflector and brag how much 
it took to break something loose.

:o)

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:18 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: FS: NOS "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets

I have 5 NOS Holley "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets that I bought for
my 455 and never used.

$25 for all 5 of them plus actual shipping to the first person who responds.

You do have to buy all 5. I don't want to sell them piecemeal at this price.

Thanks,
John Nasta

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:28:51 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week

 as they say while the cats away the mice will play.
 lol
unfortunately between cheer leading and foot ball i'm very tired. plus the nylons just crawl all up 
on me. only kidding the girls cheer leading and boy in foot ball so I wont have much time to start 
anything. but always willing to partake.
 lol
Ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Limited Admin Possible Next Week


> Greg! Greg! Steve is saying that he's going to play when you're not around...
>
> ...and... ...and...
>
> ...and Ron says he's going to start a political war...
>
> ...and... ...and...
>
> ...and Rick says he's gonna start emailing in HTML again...
>
> ...and I think Chris Witt is making funny faces at me when I'm not looking even though I didn't 
> see him doing it but I know he's doing it because I just know it.
>
> You gotta make them stop!
>
> -- Andy (who really needs to get out from babysitting duty because it's been three bloody days now 
> and the spouse got to go to the Bears game in Minneapolis with her relatives and I said I would 
> gallantly stay home and babysit while she gets a chance to get out of the house for a few days and 
> jeez it's going to be quite some time before I agree to that again...)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:21:05 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Balancer Bolt Torque

Listmembers,

Just checked the 1968 Chassis Manual, it only lists "All V-8 Engines" (exact 
quote follows):

Crankshaft Balancer or Hub to Crankshaft Bolt -- 160 Min.   (Ft. Lbs. is 
above the value column)

An interesting side note: in the L-6 section it shows removal and 
installation of the "torsional damper" with no mention of a center bolt at all.  As has 
been my observation from when Uggy had a L-6 installed these engines used the 
outside of the "damper" as the lower belt pulley.

I happened to have the 1968 manual here by the 'puter, all the rest are out 
in the garage.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:32:50 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Balancer Bolt Torque

My El Camino has a 1958 block and there was no hole in the crank for a
damper bolt. Crazy man. Well, 100 miles on the engine and so far the damper
hasn't flown off.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
<snip>
An interesting side note: in the L-6 section it shows removal and
installation of the "torsional damper" with no mention of a center bolt at
all.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:39:21 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: FS: NOS "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets

At 05:12 PM 9/27/2004, you wrote:
>I have 5 NOS Holley "turkey tray" intake manifold gaskets that I bought for
>my 455 and never used.
>
>$25 for all 5 of them plus actual shipping to the first person who responds.
>
>You do have to buy all 5. I don't want to sell them piecemeal at this price.
>
>Thanks,
>John Nasta

Heck, I'll take them all at that price, as long as shipping doesn't double 
that cost! Find the cheapest way to ship them to 02908, e-mail me directly, 
and I'll cut you a check. :)


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:09:15 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Balancer Bolt Remover

Listmembers,

I went out to the local "tool liquidator" store and bought a cheapie Chinese 
set of 3/4" drive "impact" sockets, 9" extension and 2 & 1/2-foot breaker bar. 
 With the flywheel/flexplate locked in place that bolt doesn't stand a chance!

Being the cheap, imported stuff I got it really affordable and with this 
being just about all I use it for I don't expect it to break -- bought it back in 
1997 and it's still doing OK.  If it does, I'll just get another one -- saw a 
stack of them the last time I stopped by.......

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:23:57 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems

27 Sep 2004  NUOLDSMAN@aol.com writes:
> all of the judging sheet information for each car was entered 
> into a  computer, then the judging sheets were destroyed. 
> Then the computer  crashed. 

Ballots are saved after an election, in case there is a 
recount.  Maybe a good lesson there?  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:25:59 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: balancer bolt torque

27 Sep 2004  SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net> writes:
> What about the Fluiddamper models: what do they spec 
> the torque at, and does it vary by engine?

They leave that up to your engine spec. Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:21:57 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: The Olds Engine's Advantages

In a message dated 9/27/04 1:51:27 AM Central Daylight Time, imp@theriver.com 
writes:
- -- I never knew that beehive valve springs would work that well. What's 
interesting is that beehive valve springs are not new.

The valve springs on all 394 Olds engines are beehives! I guess Olds R&D were 
a bit ahead of their time. Too bad Olds didn't keep the beehive valve springs 
on the new second generation engines in '64 and '65. --

Milton,

Seriously, I'd really like to see you compile all the great points you've 
posted over the years regarding how the Oldsmobile engines (primarily those 
post-1964) are superior to, say the Brand C stuff.  I have this clown at work that 
likes to try to get under my skin about how Olds engines are inferior to "his" 
engines, and have pointed out a lot of what you've posted over the years as 
well as an observation or two of my own.  For example:

Take a look at the port spacing on the "latest and greatest" Brand C NASCAR 
engines, compared to the older, garden-variety Brand C's.  The newer heads look 
more like the port spacing on our beloved Oldsmobiles!  We could go on and on 
about exhaust exits versus spark plug locations, far superior valve cover 
sealing (four bolts don't cut it), better fuel pump operation (you have to use a 
bolt to hold in the fuel pump rod when you change the pump, they even have a 
hole in the block you take a short bolt out of to put the longer one in), my 
list has a couple of others.

With your background (wealth of info from the Can-Am days and all the work on 
Thunder) you'd be the one I'd pick.  So whaddya say?

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:29:04 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

'68 manual says the same.

M

At 10:10 AM 9/27/2004 -0400, Fred Nissen wrote:
>The '69 shop manual shows 160 minimum.

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:47:22 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Olds Engine's Advantages

i think he should write a book. what i like the most about milton when it comes to engine building 
he always gives us great advice,
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 7:21 PM
Subject: The Olds Engine's Advantages


> In a message dated 9/27/04 1:51:27 AM Central Daylight Time, imp@theriver.com
> writes:
> -- I never knew that beehive valve springs would work that well. What's
> interesting is that beehive valve springs are not new.
>
> The valve springs on all 394 Olds engines are beehives! I guess Olds R&D were
> a bit ahead of their time. Too bad Olds didn't keep the beehive valve springs
> on the new second generation engines in '64 and '65. --
>
> Milton,
>
> Seriously, I'd really like to see you compile all the great points you've
> posted over the years regarding how the Oldsmobile engines (primarily those
> post-1964) are superior to, say the Brand C stuff.  I have this clown at work that
> likes to try to get under my skin about how Olds engines are inferior to "his"
> engines, and have pointed out a lot of what you've posted over the years as
> well as an observation or two of my own.  For example:
>
> Take a look at the port spacing on the "latest and greatest" Brand C NASCAR
> engines, compared to the older, garden-variety Brand C's.  The newer heads look
> more like the port spacing on our beloved Oldsmobiles!  We could go on and on
> about exhaust exits versus spark plug locations, far superior valve cover
> sealing (four bolts don't cut it), better fuel pump operation (you have to use a
> bolt to hold in the fuel pump rod when you change the pump, they even have a
> hole in the block you take a short bolt out of to put the longer one in), my
> list has a couple of others.
>
> With your background (wealth of info from the Can-Am days and all the work on
> Thunder) you'd be the one I'd pick.  So whaddya say?
>
> Take Care,
> SrA Ken Snyder
> Kansas City, Kansas
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:08:11 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Balancer Bolt Torque

- -------------------------------1096333691
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
In a message dated 9/27/2004 5:25:33 PM Central Daylight Time,  
KS7RACING@aol.com writes:

Listmembers,

Just checked the 1968 Chassis Manual, it only lists  "All V-8 Engines" (exact 
quote follows):

Crankshaft Balancer or Hub  to Crankshaft Bolt -- 160 Min.   (Ft. Lbs. is 
above the value  column)

An interesting side note: in the L-6 section it shows removal  and 
installation of the "torsional damper" with no mention of a center  bolt at 
all.  As has 
been my observation from when Uggy had a L-6  installed these engines used 
the 
outside of the "damper" as the lower belt  pulley.

I happened to have the 1968 manual here by the 'puter, all the  rest are out 
in the garage.

Take Care,
SrA Ken Snyder
Kansas  City, Kansas



OK, I just checked the two manuals I have here at the house, I have more  
years at the office, I can check them tomorrow.
 
1969 Chassis Service Manual
page 6B-24  
Balancer to crankshaft fit is .001 tight to .0007  loose
3. Install washer and bolt. Torque 160 ft. lbs.
 
1971 chassis Service Manual
page 6B-28
Balancer to crankshaft fit is .001 tight to .0007  loose
3. Install washer and bolt. Torque 160 ft.lbs.
 
More to come tomorrow
 

- -------------------------------1096333691
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/27/2004 5:25:33 PM Central Daylight Time,=20
KS7RACING@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
  size=3D2>Listmembers,<BR><BR>Just checked the 1968 Chassis Manual, it only=
 lists=20
  "All V-8 Engines" (exact <BR>quote follows):<BR><BR>Crankshaft Balancer or=
 Hub=20
  to Crankshaft Bolt -- 160 Min.&nbsp;&nbsp; (Ft. Lbs. is <BR>above the valu=
e=20
  column)<BR><BR>An interesting side note: in the L-6 section it shows remov=
al=20
  and <BR>installation of the "torsional damper" with no mention of a center=
=20
  bolt at all.&nbsp; As has <BR>been my observation from when Uggy had a L-6=
=20
  installed these engines used the <BR>outside of the "damper" as the lower=20=
belt=20
  pulley.<BR><BR>I happened to have the 1968 manual here by the 'puter, all=20=
the=20
  rest are out <BR>in the garage.<BR><BR>Take Care,<BR>SrA Ken Snyder<BR>Kan=
sas=20
  City, Kansas<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>OK, I just checked the two manuals I have here at the house, I have mor=
e=20
years at the office, I can check them tomorrow.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 Chassis Service Manual</DIV>
<DIV>page 6B-24&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Balancer to crankshaft fit is .001 tight to .0007=20
loose</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>3. Install washer and bolt. Torque 160 ft. lbs.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1971 chassis Service Manual</DIV>
<DIV>page 6B-28</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Balancer to crankshaft fit is .001 tight to .0007=20
loose</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>3. Install washer and bolt. Torque 160 ft.lbs.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>More to come tomorrow</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1096333691--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:24:42 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE:Olds Eng. Advantages/beehive

Hello
Some of the 1958 371s came with beehive and some with the dampner inside the spring,i think they started to swich over mid year.
This is even mentioned in the 58 Shop man.,the retainers are diff.
I converted to beehive.
My fav. Olds Advantage was the recent thread, Cam walking into the frt cover of the C brands due to Dis. direction.
I hit the hard headed Chebbie buddy at work with this one also.
Next fav, would be C brand has to rev like crazy to get the torque our lower revs make :), sounds like Olds would last longer eh.
But what would be really kewl is to just give him a whole list and sit and smile while he reads :)
Oh right the "cats" away.......I cjhgd uje a bhgw jhb.
Wandy H.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:35:36 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: Olds Eng. Advantages/beehive

Me too. Where are those things when you need them?

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----

Oh right the "cats" away.......I cjhgd uje a bhgw jhb.
Wandy H.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:13:12 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: How to remove a G-Body Speedo needle

27 Sep 2004  "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com> writes:

> >I think I went to a twisting while pulling method on the speedo.
> 
> I was wondering the same thing, but I'm not following your 
> answer here: Did you remove the needle from the shaft, or 
> did you remove the needle _and_  shaft from the gauge 
> assembly? And how do you reattach whichever piece(s) 
> were separated? Just press straight back on, or what?
> 
> -- Andy

The needle comes off, so you can remove the face, to get 
at the works.  I press needle back on.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:54:31 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque

Made a crank holder tonight, got the bolt loose, the balancer off, timing
cover off, and lo and behold: cam gear's wasted. Tis a wonder it ran as it
did.

Pictures tomorrow of the crank holder and wasted cam gear and how sloppy
the timing chain was; too late tonight.

BTW, I don't spose anybody would happen to have an '86/'87 442 roller cam
available, would you? I'm half-way there already, mebbe I outta swap the
cam while I'm at it.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:08:23 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Better deal than GM parts direct

I guess I will stick my nose in on this one, and give my "for what it's
worth". Being a small business owner, for all of 20 years, I can tell you
that the customer in not always right.  If you let them get away with
thinking that they are, you will soon find your self in front of the
Bankruptcy court. You will be telling the Judge, that I was taught at
College, "the customer is always right".  While the customer should be
considered like a "king", even the king can be wrong, and should be kindly
and politely told so.I have done this for years, and my problem customer
rate is still below 5%, and I am in a service industry. Most of the time a
problem is very fixable, and requires tact and patient skill. I usually
consider all my customers as blithering idiots who have a difficult time
comprehending plain English,(K-12 school teachers being the worst); I NEVER
let them eeeeeeeevvvvvvvveeen get a whiff of that attitude, I use dripping
charm, and far more words than can possibly be contained in a short
sentence. And then repeat it in several different ways so every one is on
the same page. Once in a great while, not even that will work, then begins
the painstaking retracing of events that led up to the miss-understanding;
all done with loving tact and graceful charm.

If the business owner has done his work properly, and has not actually
screwed up him/herself, you can get the customer to admit it was their fault
; which I can in all truth and honesty say usually happens 90% of the time.
The other 10% I blame it on the wife, and she feeds me crow for the next
week.

In all seriousness, as a business man, some of the time, it is a partially
unscrupulous customer who knows that they screwed up and is trying to get
the business owner to take it in the shorts. I don't know about the other
business owners on the list, but I for one refuse to put up with that. And
what I wrote above, actually works, if done properly. Communication is an
absolute must, and most men are not very good with it. My greatest fault is
probably in over communicating, for that I blame on my mother ; it's her
fault.............., making me tell about eeeeeeevvvvvveeeerrryyyy thing
that went on in school.

I never did tell her about Roxanne!   LOL

Some times though, the business screws up, and I would hope that they would
have the gonads to fess up and make it right.

Rick Messenger
76 98 LS coupe
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: Better deal than GM parts direct


> > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:43:36 -0400
> > From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
> > Subject: RE: Better deal than GM parts direct
> >
> snip
>
> > Of course the customer is always right, right?
> >
> > John Nasta
>
> It bothers me to see that so often - it is simply not true. I was taught
in high school business class that "The customer is king." You can see the
difference here: while the customer can be very, very wrong, he is still
treated civilly and respectfully. It IS possible to tell a customer that he
is wrong, but it must be done tactfully.
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5035
*********************************
