
oldsmobile-digest      Friday, October 15 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5059



Re: MSD Servicing Info
Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
Re: was Re: more MSD headaches; now HEI and coil information - very long
Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again
RE:'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car
Re: Conversion Utilities Web Page
which MSD distributor?
Rear Disc Brakes
Re: 468 blue smoke when cold
Re: 468 blue smoke when cold
Re: which MSD distributor?
Who needed the OP Sending unit?
Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again
Re: which MSD distributor?
Fw: which MSD distributor?
Defogger Wars (Was RE: End of an Era: The defogger kits must go...)
Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
RE: What year is this Cutlass? 77, 78......
Re: Toro AL intakes in the works
FS: Olds 350 and 2.93 open rear  (Chicago Area)
RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5058
Re: which MSD distributor?
Re: Rear Disc Brakes
Re: 468 blue smoke when cold
Re: Toro AL intakes in the works
Re: Rear Disc Brakes
Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
Re: Toro AL intakes in the works
Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again
Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5058

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:05:56 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: Re: MSD Servicing Info

Thanks, Ken. You'd mentioned that these folks tested units way back 
when I bought my ex N*sc*r unit. I went ahead today and ordered a new 
MSD box, but will see what Nelson wants to go over the GM unit. I 
sure like that blue paint better than the MSD red!

John
68 442 convt.

>Listmembers,
>
>Milton mentioned being hesitant regarding used MSD boxes -- I have what I
>feel is the best possible solution (next to giving all your broken 
>MSD boxes to
>me <smile>):
>
>Contact Nelson Specialties in Mooresville, North Carolina (website:
>www.nelsonspecialties.com) regarding their MSD box rebuild services. 
>Mr. Nelson
>Crozier rebuilds, converts and upgrades all sorts of MSD boxes 
>(Crane ignition boxes
>as well) in addition to building wiring harnesses for most of the top NASCAR
>and ARCA teams.
>
>When we went back east to buy the Red Bullet (1980 Starfire) we went through
>the Charlotte/Mooresville area to visit the race teams (a co-worker's son
>worked on one of them) and we went by their shop.  The level of 
>testing they do on
>each box is unbelievable, if he says it's good, it's good.  Nelson also said
>they have found areas where they can improve the reliability of the boxes by
>using better components than MSD used originally.  Using anything but genuine
>OEM (MSD or Crane) parts in an ignition box is forbidden by NASCAR, so if you
>were going to have them upgrade your box you'd have to tell them it wasn't
>destined for any NASCAR-sanctioned events (no big deal).
>
>The time I spent at their shop was really an eye opener!  Their upgrade
>service (converting a 6, 6A or 6AL box to 6TN or 6ALN configuration) is really
>reasonable, I intend to have them check and upgrade all the boxes I 
>have on hand. 
>In 2000 I installed a Nelson-rebuilt 6ALN box in Chelsea's RX-7 we
>autocrossed.  It's installed under the hood (heat and all), and has 
>never given us a
>single problem.
>
>Hope this helps, Take Care!
>SrA Ken Snyder
>Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:58:23 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application

> The entire interior of the truck's out, with the exception of the steering
> column, a couple of under-dash parts, windshield and rear glass.


Okay, that's clear.


> I could cut an access port in the ceiling large enough to get a squirt
bottle
> up in there, since I'm going to install the deluxe interior.  Once the
> headliner's in place you wouldn't know it was there.


I don't know what it looks like up there. If you think that will work...go
ahead.


> Is it imperative to "wash" out the solution and not just let it dry in
there?


Absolutely! It has a phosphoric acid base. I'm very familiar with that,
because parkerizing for firearms deposits either zinc phosphate or maganese
phosphate on the steel of the firearm to inhibit corrosion and lock
protecting oil to the steel surface. The parkerizing solution is made with
phosphoric acid and either zinc or magnaese in solution. It must be rinsed
off after the process is done. The same applies exactly to a rust conversion
solution using phosphoric acid as a base. After converting the rust to a
metal phosphate (that's actually what you are doing, usually iron
phosphate), the excess solution ****must**** be rinsed out completely to
stop any further reaction.

The reason this process works so well to convert rust into a coating that
you can use is that zinc phosphate, manganese phsophate, and iron phosphate
are perfect substrate metal primers to hold paint to seal a metal surface.


>  That means I'll have to wait to do it until I get the truck back on all 4
> wheels.


Hmmmmm

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:28:07 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: was Re: more MSD headaches; now HEI and coil information - very long

Kenneth,

> So there you go - all you ever wanted to know about ignition coils, plus
some.


That was very interesting and valuable info, but one small item was left
out. He just didn't know it.

Decades ago, we discovered the *real* truth in the saying, "If it don't go,
chrome it."

A chrome coating is an internal heat insulator. Any item or device that has
heat inside it will get hotter if the exterior surface is chromed.
Therefore, chromed oil pans, chromed alternator covers, chromed coil covers
or chromed coil housings, and even chromed valve covers are a bad idea.

Don't use chromed ignition coils, no matter who makes them.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:37:39 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again

John,

> BTW I've been using some of those Summit Posi-Lock wiring connectors
> while doing all this. They seem to work very well and are ideal for
> us rubes who aren't sure we'll get it right the first time. Once
> everything is in and working right, you can remove the PosiLocks and
> solder everything up.


Those look like a neat deal. It looks like they can be permanent. I'd leave
them on. They're self-insulated. If you solder, then you have to insulate
with messy electrical tape. I wised up and stopped soldering decades ago. I
use crimp on connectors for everything and have never had a failure. I've
had soldered connectors fail from vibrational fatigue.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:56:02 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: RE:'54 Olds F-88 Concept Car

Hello
We have covered this a while back...seems there are diff. pics and some pics missing from the GM  store?

http://www.gmphotostore.com/source/Detail.aspx?L1=GM%20Collections&L2=12115&imageId=2508371&action=&ss=

http://www.gmphotostore.com/source/Detail.aspx?L1=GM%20Collections&L2=12115&imageId=1897267&action=&ss=

http://www.gmphotostore.com/source/Detail.aspx?L1=GM%20Collections&L2=12115&imageId=1897592&action=&ss=

http://www.gmphotostore.com/source/Detail.aspx?L1=GM%20Collections&L2=12115&imageId=1897592&action=&ss=

http://www.gmphotostore.com/source/Detail.aspx?L1=GM%20Collections&L2=12115&imageId=2389671&action=&ss=

Good luck,,,sweet dreams.
Randy H.
Maple Syrup B.C.




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:53:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Conversion Utilities Web Page

> http://www.flw.com/datatools/


Thanks Ken. I put it in favorites. It looks like it could be useful.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:16:48 -0400
From: John Livingston <johnliving@cox.net>
Subject: which MSD distributor?

I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice 
on whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the 
street, or do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with 
vacuum advance, too? Given my recent experiences, I'd really like to 
have a nice, new distributor in there, with the current HEI unit 
safely stored in the trunk, just in case.

The MSD 8529 with both advances, is $340. The 8566 is $250.

John
68 442 conv.
- -- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:54:41 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Rear Disc Brakes

Thinking of converting to rear disc brakes.

Anyone have direct experience doing this?

Thanks

Paul Tumolo 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:00:03 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 468 blue smoke when cold

Hello dear Milton science man!
pistons are forged TRW with their std rings
clearance should be about 001 as said in their instructions
seals are from Frod, rubber with steel rings
the micro pattern was for the std iron rings
Now, I remind that if I use the car every day there is no perceptible smoke,
only when I move the car around a couple of  times...
best regards
Matt
> > hi all, I'm very happy all day long with the 468 in my 81CS, but this
blue
> > smoke of burn oil starts to worry me.
> > Occurs only in the morning, after I moved the car a couple of time in
and
> > out of the house during the previous day. Could it be normal with
forgged
> > pistons? In 1500mile there is a very little less oil on the dipstick and
> the
> > engine has only ... 1500 mile since rebuild.
> > any experience to share about big engine with forged slugs?
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Several questions. First, what type of valve seals did you use? Second,
what
> wall clearance on the piston skirts did the machine shop use? Third, what
> brand and part number of forged piston did you use? Fourth, how was the
> cylinder walls honed and what size micro-pattern was put on the walls?
> Fifth, what type and brand of piston rings did you use?
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:02:05 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: 468 blue smoke when cold

Thanks, I guess I must make a longer trip with the car... :-) ( can your
hear a YOOOOOUUUUPIIIIIII!!!! ?)
rgds
Matt
 I wouldn't be too concerned about it at this point.  Oil burning under the
> conditions you describe is usually from the top end.  Thick (cold) oil
> doesn't drain back as quick as thin (hot ) oil and thus tends to pool in
the
> heads.  This gives it more chances to seep past the stem seals and valve
> guides.  While I doubt they are the issue under the conditions you
describe,
> the rings are probably not seated yet either.  Tell us what is going on in
> another 4,000 miles.
>
> Regards,
> Fred
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:15:30 -0400
From: "M. Gillespie" <mick442@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: which MSD distributor?

>I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice on 
>whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the street, or 
>do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with vacuum advance, too?

Go with the vacuum advance unless this is a race car. The following article 
is a good explanation of timing and mech. vs. vacuum advance and ported vs. 
manifold vacuum.
http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2484

Mick Gillespie
1969 442 Conv. (clone)
1980 Toro
http://members.rogers.com/mick442/oldspage.htm 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:40:07 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Who needed the OP Sending unit?

Had a visitor recently who some time ago needed a factory OP sending unit.

found that on a recent incoming engine.

Who was that?

Visited with Harvey Lake?

Chris Witt
517-449-0432

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:47:45 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again

Infinite Space Systems, Inc. wrote:
 >
> ... If you solder, then you have to insulate with messy electrical tape.

Push some heat shrink onto the wires before soldering and then pull it 
over the (cooled) connection and shrink in place.  Mucho better than 
electrical tape.
- --

Cliff "Heat gives that nice tight fit you need!" Simpson & Kermit
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:47:53 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: which MSD distributor?

I can back up this with my own experience. When I switched from the timed to
the direct vacuum with my Mallory dist I noticed that the ildle was better
( not so mild 355ci with big intake and big exhaust ), but someone on the
list wrote about the timed vacuum being all around better, specially during
transitions from coasting to acceleration. So I went back and the seat of
the pants metter was 100% for the change, the car was responding better,
crispier and total performance was up.
rgds
Matt

> >I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice on
> >whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the street, or
> >do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with vacuum advance,
too?
>
> Go with the vacuum advance unless this is a race car. The following
article
> is a good explanation of timing and mech. vs. vacuum advance and ported
vs.
> manifold vacuum.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:03:20 -0300
From: "Tour Op & Travel Agency Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Fw: which MSD distributor?

oups, I have forgotten the most important... I had the can punctured in the
Mallory dist and the car was sort of sluggish- lazy in the city driving, the
mpg was low... till I sold the car but keeping the electronic distributor.
When I put it on the 468 I just tried to check how well the vacuum advance
works only to discover it didn't... sorry for the off topic line below...
Matt
> I can back up this with my own experience. When I switched from the timed
to
> the direct vacuum with my Mallory dist I noticed that the ildle was better
> ( not so mild 355ci with big intake and big exhaust ), but someone on the
> list wrote about the timed vacuum being all around better, specially
during
> transitions from coasting to acceleration. So I went back and the seat of
> the pants metter was 100% for the change, the car was responding better,
> crispier and total performance was up.
> rgds
> Matt
>
> > >I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice
on
> > >whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the street,
or
> > >do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with vacuum advance,
> too?
> >
> > Go with the vacuum advance unless this is a race car. The following
> article
> > is a good explanation of timing and mech. vs. vacuum advance and ported
> vs.
> > manifold vacuum.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:09:54 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Defogger Wars (Was RE: End of an Era: The defogger kits must go...)

>Yes, more oldtimer everyday, just like me!
>
>Those were some classic posts and I really miss those exchanges.

Hey, maybe this would be a good test of whether Jeff Easton's archives can 
turn them up...? (Am almost scared to find out how many years ago that was, 
though...)

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:56:25 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application

> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:03:39 -0700
> From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
> 
> Also, while Phosphoric Acid will work fine, 
> Hydrofluoric Acid is faster. What ever you do, make double sure that you 
> protect your eyes and hands......., especially your eyes. 

HF will etch glass and is VERY DANGEROUS to humans. It can cause burns at as low as 2% concentrations. If it gets on you, it will penetrate the skin and attack the underlying tissue and bones (it has a very high affinity for Calcium). Inhalation of HF vapor is even worse, causing nose and throat burns, lung inflammation and pulmonary edema. If not promptly treated it can cause death due to hypocalcemia. 

The bad part is that there can be a delay of several hours before you become aware of acid burns on the skin. Special treatment is required for HF burns, including either topical application or subcutaneous injection of calcium gluconate (the HF will go for the calcium gluconate instead of your bones). 

Now maybe I'm just paranoid about HF - here at work we use it, but under very controlled environments in fume hoods, while wearing protective equipment (face shield, gloves, and full-sleeve plastic apron) and we have calcium gluconate cream readily available just in case. I would never use it from sprayer inside of the cab of a truck, that's for sure.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:57:47 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: What year is this Cutlass? 77, 78......

13 Oct 2004  "Randy Geisel" <rocket455@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>it's an '80 Supreme and it's not a 307....but a '77- '80
>>350,
[...]
>Although I'm still confused as to the frontend
>configuration....doesn't match any pics I've seen
>anywhere. Hmmm.....

Well, don't forget the Image Search option of Google. Go to 
http://www.google.com, but before you type "1980 Cutlass" into the search 
window, select the Images tab instead. That'll return to you a whole bunch 
o' pictures, some (though certainly not all) showing a Cutlass with the 
headlight configuration we're talking about here.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:11:12 -0400
From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Toro AL intakes in the works

Correct me if I'm wrong guys... but as I recall I think that any other
intake and especially high-rise intakes won't fit under the hood of a Toro.

Later...
Clayton

>
> I don't doubt that the Toro intake is better than the regular factory
intake, but
> I really don't see how even a slightly modified one could be better than
the
> Edelbrock Performer 455 intake, which is a high rise design (semi-high
rise?)
> with much more plenum volume.
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:37:18 -0500
From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
Subject: FS: Olds 350 and 2.93 open rear  (Chicago Area)

Whoops, sent yesterday, but forgot all about the ~other~ F-word....

Chicago Area
~F.R.E.E.~ to anyone that can come and pick up, otherwise these are 
going to be reincarnated as Daewoo's very soon:

350 block (approx.1974) from a Cutlass with A/C (3-belt pulleys). Engine 
was a cheap Ebay victory several years ago. Corresponding 4v iron intake 
also available, #8 cylinder heads are present - not as cheap, but 
negotiable, carburetor has already emmigrated. Said to be running when 
pulled, dissection showed that it was more likely limping. Both valve 
covers were caked with sludge such that PCV valve could not possibly 
have been functional (valve covers were promtly thrown away). More oil 
sludge contributed to one stuck valve (freed with cleaning) and a 
deposit of  sludge on one piston. Points distributor I may keep - it has 
a uniset points set: one contact point is ON the condenser. Cam sprocket 
had only 4 broken nylon teeth, and not much play in timing chain (still 
have both if anyone is curious). No sign of damage or wear in bottom 
end. Motor is dissasembled; I dont have a hoist to move the critter. 
During dissembly I did mark the pistons, but in my zeal neglected to do 
same with the rod caps. I cannot discern a ridge in the cylinders. 
Engine sat outside for approx 4 years covered by a VERY contrary 
tarpaulin, so there is surface rust in the cylinders.

1965 rear end assembly from a Dynamic 88 or Delta 88 (do not remember 
which) complete from backing plate to backing plate [I removed the brake 
hardware years ago] {AHA! THATS where the extra set of drums came from, 
I had puzzled about that for the longest time. You know you're a serious 
car enthusiast when parts have no verifiable origins: "Um, I dunno 
honey. Wasn't that there when we moved in????"}. Diff code is "QC": 2.93 
open. Have never opened cover. This was to be a replacement for my 
departed Dynamic 88 which had a leaky seal surface at the end of one 
tube. Rust on the unit should be considered to be more advanced than 
"surface" though it should be structurally stable. I have never been 
able to properly verify the gear size, but I beleive it to be 8.2"

Large number of pictures can be provided, including detail shots.
Shots can be provided, lead only.

I am willing to part & ship (within reason). I don't really expect 
anyone to come and haul off the rear end (not that I'm discouraging 
anyone from doing that), so I'll be happy to sell the axle shafts or 
gears out of the rear and scrap the housing.

Did I mention each is F.R.E.E. if you can come and take the whole thing?

Interested parties reply *~ONLY~* to
KarlMonster@ameritech.net

Persons with only passing interest should watch your local Daewoo dealer 
for Oldsmobile markings or signs of intelligence in future products.

Persons reading this at work should delete it immediately; your boss 
just walked in and is reading over your shoulder.

K

Note: F.R.E.E. may denote the Fraternal Regiment of Excrement Embellishers.
          Or not.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:04:09 -0400
From: "Daniel Burk" <dan@ws6transam.org>
Subject: RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5058

No Kurt, I'm not testing you. It's just my ignorance showing. What I have is
what appears to be someone's 1980's restoration who thought the car would
look better in gold, with an F85 Deluxe interior. Is it a post coupe? I
don't know. This is my first foray into something OTHER than an F-body. For
what it's worth, Here's the pictures before I started removing interior in
preparation for cleanup & repaint.
http://www.ws6transam.org/f85

It was originally Nocturne Mist with white top, I guess. I don't know about
the interior. I am going to do the interior in white & black.
>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:41:02 -0400
>From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
>Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
>
>Okay, Daniel, I know you're just testing us.  There is no '65 F-85 Deluxe
>Coupe.  With or without post.

>Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
>http://wmachines.shubes.net
>'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
>'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
>'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Daniel Burk
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:25 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
>
>
> Sounds like the perfect donor car to fix up my '65 post coupe F85 Deeluxe.
> Road trip anyone?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:11:11 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: which MSD distributor?

> I promise to give everyone a break from me shortly, but I need advice
> on whether the mechanical advance MSD distributor is fine for the
> street, or do I need to save up another $100 and get the one with
> vacuum advance, too? Given my recent experiences, I'd really like to
> have a nice, new distributor in there, with the current HEI unit
> safely stored in the trunk, just in case.


I agree 1000%. When (notice how I say that) I build the 403 for the '65 F-85
4-door, build the 425 for the '65 Vista Cruiser and restore the rest of the
car, and build either a 403 or 425 for the '64 Cutlass and restore that car
to a mild version of Thunder (I think this idea will be a real sight gag and
play with people's minds; they see the '64 Cutlass, then I go home and bring
out Thunder as a switch and bait), I will install a MSD distributor in each
engine. Right now, I have an Accel distributor in the '65 F-85, set up with
the MSA 6A and Blaster II coil and MSD HEI coil-in-cap eliminator, installed
in '94. It's given no problems, and it does have vacuum advance. The advance
curve was set up by a local distributor Wizard. However, the '65 F-85's 330
is stock, except for the crummy Edelbrock intake and excellent AFB. I do
have the '65's stock point distributor available to reinstall if the Accel
distrubutor gave problems. However, I've got about 90,000 miles on the
Accel, and there have been no problems. In '94, MSD hadn't made an Olds
distributor yet.


> The MSD 8529 with both advances, is $340. The 8566 is $250.


I believe the way to go is to use a vacuum advance distributor on a mostly
stock engine, but use a straight mechanical advance distributor on a
modified engine. Some say that vacuum advance will give better MPG, but I'm
not sure about that in all cases. I believe it depends on how the engine is
set up and how closely the distributor advance system is tailored to engine
demands.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:20:21 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Disc Brakes

Paul,

From past experience, the companies who do have rear disc brake kits (not
many supply them) have **everything** you need to do it in the brake kit.
The mods are very straight forward and usually easier to do than installing
disc brakes on the front.

Thunder has rear disc brakes from Hurst/Airheart in 1970. Even back then,
the disc brake kit had everything. It was simple.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:47:17 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 468 blue smoke when cold

Matt,

> pistons are forged TRW with their std rings
> clearance should be about 001 as said in their instructions


Okay.


> seals are from Frod, rubber with steel rings


Steal ring? The correct Ford 289 valve seal rides up and down on the valve
stem. It does *not* use a steal ring that secures it to the top of the valve
guide. For some unknown reason, an Olds seems to require more oil
lubrication to the valve stem than other engines. It may be because the
valves are almost straight up with an extremely shallow valve angle compared
to all other engines. If the valves were canted sideways, like a small block
Chevy, much more oil splash will get on the valve stems and in the valve
guides. Therefore, valve seals that are attached securely to the top of the
valve guide seem to starve oil to the valve guides on an Olds and can cause
premature valve guide wear.


> the micro pattern was for the std iron rings


Didn't you use moly rings? If so, moly rings use a different micro hone
pattern than for cast iron rings.


> Now, I remind that if I use the car every day there is no perceptible
smoke,
> only when I move the car around a couple of  times...


That sounds like oil drain down from the valve guides.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:45:09 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Toro AL intakes in the works

i believe thats why the torointake was actually lower in the center than any other intake at least 
on bb olds powered toro's
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Toro AL intakes in the works


> Correct me if I'm wrong guys... but as I recall I think that any other
> intake and especially high-rise intakes won't fit under the hood of a Toro.
>
> Later...
> Clayton
>
>>
>> I don't doubt that the Toro intake is better than the regular factory
> intake, but
>> I really don't see how even a slightly modified one could be better than
> the
>> Edelbrock Performer 455 intake, which is a high rise design (semi-high
> rise?)
>> with much more plenum volume.
>>
>> Kenneth
>> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
>> Phoenix, AZ
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:47:19 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Disc Brakes

on what i converted my 77 cutlass to rear disc thanks to a donor 79 turbo t/a.
 most kits use the  toro,buick and cady front wheel drive stuff.
 mp brakes  bases there kits off everday  gm parts for easier access to replacement parts.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
To: "Oldsmobile-Digest" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 8:54 AM
Subject: Rear Disc Brakes


> Thinking of converting to rear disc brakes.
> 
> Anyone have direct experience doing this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul Tumolo 
> 
> 
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:55:57 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application

> Now maybe I'm just paranoid about HF - here at work we use it, but under
very controlled environments in fume hoods, while wearing protective
equipment (face shield, gloves, and full-sleeve plastic apron) and we have
calcium gluconate cream readily available just in case. I would never use it
from sprayer inside of the cab of a truck, that's for sure.


No, you're not paranoid about HF acid. Pour one gallon of HF acid on the
ground, and it will start burning itself toward the center of the Earth,
until it runs out of reactivity. Remember the acid blood in the alien
creatures in Alien(s)? Remember how the affects of their blood was shown on
various things, metal and people? HF acid works exactly the same way. That's
no exaggeration.

Stick with using phosphoric acid. That's about as high a reactivity as one
wants to get for de-rusting applications. That's much safer for humans.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:57:27 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Toro AL intakes in the works

> Correct me if I'm wrong guys... but as I recall I think that any other
> intake and especially high-rise intakes won't fit under the hood of a
Toro.


You're correct.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:56:07 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again

Isn't it also true that a soldered connection can actually increase the
resistance across the connection.Since current flows around wire instead of
through it. Does not soldering actually cut down current path.
Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: MSD headaches not MSD's fault - Milton right again


> John,
>
> > BTW I've been using some of those Summit Posi-Lock wiring connectors
> > while doing all this. They seem to work very well and are ideal for
> > us rubes who aren't sure we'll get it right the first time. Once
> > everything is in and working right, you can remove the PosiLocks and
> > solder everything up.
>
>
> Those look like a neat deal. It looks like they can be permanent. I'd
leave
> them on. They're self-insulated. If you solder, then you have to insulate
> with messy electrical tape. I wised up and stopped soldering decades ago.
I
> use crimp on connectors for everything and have never had a failure. I've
> had soldered connectors fail from vibrational fatigue.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:19:55 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application

All of what you say is true, and I have lost a couple of finger nails to
H.F. when it found a hole in my rubber glove. I work with the stuff every
day. However Phos. acd. in the proper solution will burn just as badly, as
will sulfuric( batter acid) . In the dry cleaners industry, H.F. is one of
the main acids for destaining certain materials from rust, and it is fast ,
fast, fast. I have used it for many applications, where very stubborn rust
is concerned.
Any time some one brings up the subj. of acid of any kind, there are always
several dangers involved , hence the need for extreme caution. The worst
acid burn I received was from phos.acd. when descaling a boiler,it got in my
boot......, hot foot! Should H.F. be used in derusting auto parts.........,
only if used very carefully. Phos. acd. is slower, on deep rust; but as
Milt. and others have stated, I does provide excellent anti rust protection
when properly used. I have use all 3, many times with excellent results, but
then I have worked around the stuff for over 20 years.  Your right Ken, and
maybe upon reflection, I should not of mentioned it; but then I have gotten
so used to thinking "outside" the box, it's second nature.
Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application


> > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:03:39 -0700
> > From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
> > Subject: Re: Anti-Rust Solution Application
> >
> > Also, while Phosphoric Acid will work fine,
> > Hydrofluoric Acid is faster. What ever you do, make double sure that you
> > protect your eyes and hands......., especially your eyes.
>
> HF will etch glass and is VERY DANGEROUS to humans. It can cause burns at
as low as 2% concentrations. If it gets on you, it will penetrate the skin
and attack the underlying tissue and bones (it has a very high affinity for
Calcium). Inhalation of HF vapor is even worse, causing nose and throat
burns, lung inflammation and pulmonary edema. If not promptly treated it can
cause death due to hypocalcemia.
>
> The bad part is that there can be a delay of several hours before you
become aware of acid burns on the skin. Special treatment is required for HF
burns, including either topical application or subcutaneous injection of
calcium gluconate (the HF will go for the calcium gluconate instead of your
bones).
>
> Now maybe I'm just paranoid about HF - here at work we use it, but under
very controlled environments in fume hoods, while wearing protective
equipment (face shield, gloves, and full-sleeve plastic apron) and we have
calcium gluconate cream readily available just in case. I would never use it
from sprayer inside of the cab of a truck, that's for sure.
>
> Kenneth
> 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> Phoenix, AZ
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:29:12 -0400
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5058

Okay, it is a V-8 F-85 Club Coupe.  The interior was blue originally.  And
it did come with the optional body side molding!

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Daniel Burk
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:04 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Cc: wmachine@shubes.net
> Subject: RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 #5058
>
>
> No Kurt, I'm not testing you. It's just my ignorance showing.
> What I have is
> what appears to be someone's 1980's restoration who thought the car would
> look better in gold, with an F85 Deluxe interior. Is it a post coupe? I
> don't know. This is my first foray into something OTHER than an
> F-body. For
> what it's worth, Here's the pictures before I started removing interior in
> preparation for cleanup & repaint.
> http://www.ws6transam.org/f85
>
> It was originally Nocturne Mist with white top, I guess. I don't
> know about
> the interior. I am going to do the interior in white & black.
> >
> >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:41:02 -0400
> >From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
> >Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
> >
> >Okay, Daniel, I know you're just testing us.  There is no '65 F-85 Deluxe
> >Coupe.  With or without post.
>
> >Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
> >http://wmachines.shubes.net
> >'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
> >'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
> >'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> > [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Daniel Burk
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:25 PM
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: RE: UNBOUNCE: '65 F-85 4-door
> >
> >
> > Sounds like the perfect donor car to fix up my '65 post coupe
> F85 Deeluxe.
> > Road trip anyone?
> >
> >
>
>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5059
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