
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, October 26 2004      Volume 01 : Number 5072



RE: Be paranoid!
HBal Installer
M-22 or not?
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: speaking of license suspensions..
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Re: Muncie Gear Angles
Re: HBal Installer
Re: Be paranoid!
Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
Skirt knock??
Re: Skirt knock??
Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier
Re: M-22, or no?
Re: M-22 or not?
Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier
Re: M-22, or no?
Fw: Bad Vendor Notice CTC auto ranch
Re: Skirt knock??
Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier
67 442 for sale
67 442 for sale
RE: 67 442 for sale
Re: 67 442 for sale
RE: 67 442 for sale
RE: 67 442 for sale
RE: 67 442 for sale
Re: RE: 67 442 for sale
RE: RE: 67 442 for sale
Re: 67 442 for sale
Re: Skirt knock??
Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:59:55 -0700
From: "Tom Lentz" <tom@pebkac.us>
Subject: RE: Be paranoid!

> >>Be careful out there, guys!

Boy, am I glad I chocked that rear tire last time I held the truck up with a
stick so I could weld on the gas tank...

http://tom.pebkac.us/dumbass.jpg

(no, that's not me, just some Darwin award contestant).

Tom.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:49:14 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: HBal Installer

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:51:21 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At 10:53 AM 10/25/2004, you wrote:
>That reminded me: there was a Tower Fasteners outlet somewhere locally.
>I just went hunting where I *thought* it was but no dice  ;o(((
>According to their website, the Connecticut outlet is now somewhere
>else than local  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

Oh, wait; you're in CT???

I've got those lengths of 3/4" fine-thread all-thread down at my parent's
place in Stratford. You can either wait until I'm down visiting them for
Thanksgiving, or I can give my pop the heads-up and have him get a length
of that all-thread out from the basement so you could pick it up from him.
Then all you'd need is the nut (a lot easier to find than all-thread) and a
couple washers.
=====================
I can donate a couple of used crank snout washers I guess
Might even have a 3/4 NF nut on hand.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:52:54 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: M-22 or not?

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:26:09 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: M-22, or no?

M-22's also have the large output shaft that uses the TH400 yoke.  Trust me,
I have seen a few of these in person over the years.  Usualy with a bunch of
big block chevy stuff at a swap meet.  THey are real, but somewhat rare.
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser
==============
that's just not true
I now recall the thing about the C suffix meaning M-22
A google search for Muncie info yielded much good stuff, including the fact 
that any of the 3 can come with either large or small output or fine or 
coarse input. Only a ck of the gear teeth angle can really discern an M-22- 
even a C stamped case can have different guts by now.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:33:54 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At 05:06 PM 10/25/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> What's sposed to keep it spaced back from that cap so it
>> doesn't wear into it?????  The '80s CSMs don't even seem to give
>> a spec on how far from the cap it should be located.
>
>
>There's a lip on the side of the gear that spaces it away from anything.
>Isn't the lip there?

Yes, but that means the gear's lip rides against the cap.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:30:18 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At 04:56 PM 10/25/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Steve,
>
>Did you try to install the balancer without the square key in place?
>Sometimes the slot for the square key is very tight, or there are 
>burrs on the key or in the key slot.

Yes; it's just real tight, apparently interference fit.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:38:18 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

At 05:10 PM 10/25/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>I'm going to  tear it down and inspect/replace this winter. The 
>>question is;
>>how do you get cam bearings out and in? I've never done this before 
>>and I envision a bushing tool the right size on a long extension/handle.
>
>
>A genuine cam bearing removal and installation tool, specifically made 
>for the job.

With the bearing edges squished like that, the tool may have trouble
gripping the old bearings to yank them out.

I wonder if the cam was not located inside the bores properly, and instead
riding on the edge. Wandy didn't build that engine, he bought it already
installed in the car. Wandy, you might stick the bump stick back in and see
whether it was sitting too far either way in the bearing bores. Is there
any noticeable wear on the front of the block where the cam gear rode
against the block?

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:11:39 -0500
From: "Jeff Carter" <blue442@odsy.net>
Subject: Re: speaking of license suspensions..

Milton,

That was truly tragic.  I'm sorry.  You did a fine job indeed sir.

Jeff


> You see, there are more 9/11s than one might know.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:39:56 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net> wrote:

Wandy didn't build that engine, he bought it already
>installed in the car. Wandy, you might stick the bump stick back in and see
>whether it was sitting too far either way in the bearing bores. Is there
>any noticeable wear on the front of the block where the cam gear rode
>against the block?
>
>SteveH

>>>
Hello
I bought that motor with 2 weeks running on it and a cracked block due to no anti freeze. i swapped blocks.
The block is fine the bearings took the damage.
I dont really want to say what caused this until i am sure.
I am guessing mains clearances in correct so far?
I will let ya know crew chief i doin some more investigating.
Wandy H.
Maple Syrup B.C.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:45:45 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Muncie Gear Angles

- -------------------------------1098769544
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In a message dated 10/25/2004 6:29:10 PM Central Daylight Time,  
olds330@earthlink.net writes:

that's  why they called them "rock crushers"     
john
67 cutlass  supreme 4 speed....  
not stock... but sure is fun to drive this  way

Also with the gear < cut of the M-22's they will be a bit  noisier than the 
> M-20 & M-21  units.




OK, here's all the info you should need to indentify a Muncie 4 speed
 
_http://www.nastyz28.com/transid.html_ (http://www.nastyz28.com/transid.html) 
 
_http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.htm_ (http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.htm) 
 
_http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4633/Pictures/muncie.html_ 
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4633/Pictures/muncie.html) 

- -------------------------------1098769544
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/25/2004 6:29:10 PM Central Daylight Time,=20
olds330@earthlink.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>that's=20
  why they called them "rock crushers"&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>john<BR>67 cut=
lass=20
  supreme 4 speed....&nbsp; <BR>not stock... but sure is fun to drive this=20
  way<BR><BR>Also with the gear &lt; cut of the M-22's they will be a bit=20
  noisier than the <BR>&gt; M-20 &amp; M-21=20
units.<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>OK, here's all the info you should need to indentify a Muncie 4 speed</=
DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.nastyz28.com/transid.html">http://www.nastyz28.com/transi=
d.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.htm">http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.h=
tm</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4633/Pictures/muncie.html=
">http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4633/Pictures/muncie.html</A></=
DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1098769544--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:52:24 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: HBal Installer

At 10:49 PM 10/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:51:21 -0400
>From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
>Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings
>
>At 10:53 AM 10/25/2004, you wrote:
>>That reminded me: there was a Tower Fasteners outlet somewhere 
>>locally. I just went hunting where I *thought* it was but no dice  
>>;o(((  According to their website, the Connecticut outlet is now 
>>somewhere else than local  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\
>
>Oh, wait; you're in CT???
>
>I've got those lengths of 3/4" fine-thread all-thread down at my 
>parent's place in Stratford. You can either wait until I'm down 
>visiting them for Thanksgiving, or I can give my pop the heads-up 
>and have him get a length of that all-thread out from the basement 
>so you could pick it up from him. Then all you'd need is the nut 
>(a lot easier to find than all-thread) and a couple washers.
>=====================
>I can donate a couple of used crank snout washers I guess
>Might even have a 3/4 NF nut on hand.

Thanks to you both; nothing like Olds guys for coming to someone's rescue  :o)

Tower Fasteners may not have been where I was thinking of, Fastenal still
has an outlet where I thought the Tower place was so will stop by there
tomorrow and see what I can find. McMaster-Carr also has the stuff and at
reasonable prices, too, although bolts/nuts are packaged like 10/package
and the like.

I hope Fastenal might also have a Torrington needle thrust bearing; that's
be the cat's rear end and make it really smooooooth-operating. So we'll see
tomorrow.

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:54:28 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Be paranoid!

> Boy, am I glad I chocked that rear tire last time I held the truck up with
a
> stick so I could weld on the gas tank...
>
> http://tom.pebkac.us/dumbass.jpg
>
> (no, that's not me, just some Darwin award contestant).


Charles Bronson in Death Wish V.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:01:19 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1/2 O.T.430 Peel away cam bearings

> >There's a lip on the side of the gear that spaces it away from anything.
> >Isn't the lip there?
>
> Yes, but that means the gear's lip rides against the cap.


Okay, then what was happening previously? What prevented the gear from
rubbing on the front main cap before? Is there wear marks there now? What
was it like when you disassembled? The only thing I can think of is the back
side of the thrust bearing is nicely worn and the crank set back to the rear
a bit, moving the timing gear into close proximity to the front main cap.
Possible?

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:08:58 -0500
From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
Subject: Skirt knock??

<<  I'll bet the individual who said that had some piston skirt knock in 
his engine. >>

That's the first time I've heard that term.
(I'd remember a phrase like "skirt knock" - it sounds naughty)

What would that sound like?

K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:23:56 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock??

> What would that sound like?


It can be mistaken for a bad rod bearing, if only one or two pistons are
knocking. Also may sound like custom forged racing pistons that have a wide
clearance when cold, then after they become hot, they have expanded to fit
the bore. Except in the case of most or all of the pistons having collapsed
skirts, then the noise never goes away, no matter how hot the engine gets.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:23:46 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier

In a message dated 10/25/04 5:39:31 PM Pacific  Daylight 
Time,ssreed@direcway.com writes:
Michelle was a breeze to work with,  and made everything easy between me 
giving her my order, plus having her  confirm it with my rebuilder, and 
calling me back for billing & shipping  info.  My parts should be here 
tomorrow, and I should prob. a  functional M-22 by the weekend, although the 
engine is on the garage floor  :(
Hey Steve,
Have you, by chance, ever  heard of the Auto Gear Super Case for the Muncie 4 
speed transmission?  It  is a newer, beefier version of the main case-the one 
Muncie should have made in  the first place.  It has provisions for bigger 
bearings and is actually  about .25 inch longer than the stock main case. It 
makes the old maincase look  frail by comparison.  I bought one for my M 22 and 
had no problems  whatsoever when reinstalling it in the car.  Adding this was a 
no brainer  after the addition of the Lakewood scattershield bellhousing and 
block saver,  the billet flywheel and the Centerforce clutch.  Just thought I 
would  mention this since you already have the gearbox out and you're having 
it  rebuilt.
Steve D  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:28:11 EDT
From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: M-22, or no?

- -------------------------------1098782891
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In a message dated 10/25/04 5:39:31 PM Pacific Daylight  
Time,wyattolds@hotmail.com writes:

M-22's  also have the large output shaft that uses the TH400 yoke.  Trust me, 
 
I have seen a few of these in person over the years.  Usualy with a  bunch of 
big block chevy stuff at a swap meet.  THey are real, but  somewhat rare.


Dave,
     The original M 21 that was in my 72 442 from the  factory has the same 
large output shaft that uses the T 400 yoke.  It's now  sticking out the back 
of a newly built M 22 tranny, so I know it's the  same.
Steve D

- -------------------------------1098782891
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/25/04 5:39:31 PM Pacific Daylight=20
Time,wyattolds@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>M-22's=20
  also have the large output shaft that uses the TH400 yoke.&nbsp; Trust me,=
=20
  <BR>I have seen a few of these in person over the years.&nbsp; Usualy with=
 a=20
  bunch of <BR>big block chevy stuff at a swap meet.&nbsp; THey are real, bu=
t=20
  somewhat rare.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Dave,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The original M 21 that was in my 72 442 from t=
he=20
factory has the same large output shaft that uses the T 400 yoke.&nbsp; It's=
 now=20
sticking out the back of a newly built M 22 tranny, so I know it's the=20
same.</DIV>
<DIV>Steve D</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1098782891--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:28:20 -0500
From: Stephen Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: M-22 or not?

Chris,

 >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:26:09 -0500
 >From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: RE: M-22, or no?
 >
 >M-22's also have the large output shaft that uses the TH400 yoke.  Trust me,
 >I have seen a few of these in person over the years.  Usualy with a bunch of
 >big block chevy stuff at a swap meet.  THey are real, but somewhat rare.
 >Dave Wyatt
 >70  4-4-2
 >67 Vista Cruiser
 >==============
 >that's just not true
 >I now recall the thing about the C suffix meaning M-22
 >A google search for Muncie info yielded much good stuff, including the fact
 >that any of the 3 can come with either large or small output or fine or
 >coarse input. Only a ck of the gear teeth angle can really discern an M-22-
 >even a C stamped case can have different guts by now.

Yup you're right.  After doing a lot of reading last night myself I saw 
that the ~only~ way to real I.D. an M-22 is by the
20 degree helix angle on the gearset as opposed to a 45 degree angle. Also 
M22 gear sets were of a higher nickel alloy.

Now I'm gonna ~have~ to take some digital pictures before reassembly, just 
to document this sucker.




Steve Reed
'68 Cutlass
'70 Cutlass Supreme Ragtop
Austin, TX 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:38:06 -0500
From: Stephen Reed <ssreed@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier

At 04:23 AM 10/26/2004, you wrote:
 >In a message dated 10/25/04 5:39:31 PM Pacific  Daylight
 >Time,ssreed@direcway.com writes:
 >Michelle was a breeze to work with,  and made everything easy between me
 >giving her my order, plus having her  confirm it with my rebuilder, and
 >calling me back for billing & shipping  info.  My parts should be here
 >tomorrow, and I should prob. a  functional M-22 by the weekend, although the
 >engine is on the garage floor  :(
 >Hey Steve,
 >Have you, by chance, ever  heard of the Auto Gear Super Case for the 
Muncie 4
 >speed transmission?  It  is a newer, beefier version of the main case-the 
one
 >Muncie should have made in  the first place.  It has provisions for bigger
 >bearings and is actually  about .25 inch longer than the stock main case. It
 >makes the old maincase look  frail by comparison.  I bought one for my M 22
 >and
 >had no problems  whatsoever when reinstalling it in the car.  Adding this
 >was a
 >no brainer  after the addition of the Lakewood scattershield bellhousing and
 >block saver,  the billet flywheel and the Centerforce clutch.  Just 
thought I
 >would  mention this since you already have the gearbox out and you're having
 >it  rebuilt.
 >Steve D

Steve,
	Do you remember what you paid for your SuperCase?  Just curious before I 
goto work, if you get this.


- -Steve

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:01:16 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: M-22, or no?

Ah yes, the later style Muncie from 71 up.  I had forgotten about them.  
Cousin had one in his 72 Chevelle with the 23 spline input and the small 
tail shaft, it was an M-21.  I sometimes think those were made up from 
leftover parts.  From 70 on back, they were not bastardized as much.  M-20 
and 21 had the 10 spline input, higher angled gears, and small tail shaft.  
You could count on it.



Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser




>From: NUOLDSMAN@aol.com
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: M-22, or no?
>Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:28:11 EDT
>
>

>
>Dave,
>      The original M 21 that was in my 72 442 from the  factory has the 
>same
>large output shaft that uses the T 400 yoke.  It's now  sticking out the 
>back
>of a newly built M 22 tranny, so I know it's the  same.
>Steve D

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:17:49 +0000
From: Oldscarguy@comcast.net
Subject: Fw: Bad Vendor Notice CTC auto ranch

- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24949_1098796669_0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



Hello,
Here is an e-mail I just received from my father on the Riviera mailing list about a bad vendor CTC Auto Ranch. 
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "billsodt" 
To: "Riviera" 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:24 PM 
Subject: Bad Vendor Notice CTC auto ranch 


 I don't usually do this but this experience was just too much to let 
slip. 

I have bought from http://www.ctcautoranch.com/home/index.shtml before and was accused of stealing by them because I had my car keys in my hand as I left, which they thought was a part I guess. Being a honest person 
 and understanding that junk yards do have some theft issues at times I 
 let that slide. 
 
About 2 months ago I purchased a gas tank for the 71 from them for 150  bucks (did not include the sender either). I noticed a few GS boattails and inquired about a price for a GS rear end, the quote was $750 cash. 
 Well not having the cash at the time I passed. So I called them today as 
 a courtesy to see about purchasing one of the GS rear ends and setting 
 up a time to pick it up. He took my number to go check and call me back.  
 Well the call back stated that it was his last one and because it was 
his last one he now wanted $995 bucks, even though he remembered quoting  me 750 the other time. I stated that I was just there and you quoted me $750 why is it now $995? His response was quite rudely "well guess you should have bought it before I knew it was my last". 
 
 I have dealt with them 3 times all 3 were rude and bad, this was my 
last. Just wanted to pass this info on, we are automotive enthusiasts 
 and it is a shame that some of the people with the classic parts forget 
 that and just enjoy the money not the fun of it all. 
 
 Bill Sodt (thanks for letting me vent) 
 71 
 72 
 71 
 ROA10273 
  
 I can relate to the message as I live very close to CTC and have had a similar experience with a printed circut board for the back of my 66 Olds 98 speedometer.  He wanted $95 over the phone which was unreasonably expensive, but where else do I find that part.  When I went up there a week later to get the part he said $135.  I told him that only a week ago he wanted $95 and I said I would not pay any more than that.  He said "I don't know where you heard $95," like he was accusing me of trying to rip him off.  I told him that he himself gave me that price a week ago.  After a lot of grumbling, he finally sold it to me for $95.  Do not do business with this man.
Tim Bender
OCA #036909
- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24949_1098796669_0
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<P>Hello,</P>
<P>Here is an e-mail I just received from my father on the Riviera mailing list about a bad vendor CTC Auto Ranch.&nbsp;</P>
<P>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "billsodt" <BILL.SODT@MCI.COM><BR>To: "Riviera" <RIVIERA-L@REDEEMER.ON.CA><BR>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:24 PM <BR>Subject: <RIVIERA-LIST>Bad Vendor Notice CTC auto ranch&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR> I don't usually do this but this experience was just too much to let <BR>slip. <BR><BR>I have bought from http://www.ctcautoranch.com/home/index.shtml before and was accused of stealing by them because I had my car keys in my hand as I left, which they thought was a part I guess. Being a honest person&nbsp;<BR> and understanding that junk yards do have some theft issues at times I&nbsp;<BR> let that slide.&nbsp;<BR> <BR>About 2 months ago I purchased a gas tank for the 71 from them for 150&nbsp; bucks (did not include the sender either). I noticed a few GS boattails and inquired about a price for a GS rear end, the quote was $750 cash.&nbsp;<BR> Well not having the cash at the time I passed. So I called them today as&nbsp;<BR> a courtesy to see about purchasing one of the GS rear ends and setting&nbsp;<BR> up a time to pick it up. He took my number to go check and call me back.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;Well the call back stated that it was his last one and because it was <BR>his last one he now wanted $995 bucks, even though he remembered quoting&nbsp; me 750 the other time. I stated that I was just there and you quoted me&nbsp;$750 why is it now $995? His response was quite rudely "well guess you&nbsp;should have bought it before I knew it was my last".&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR> I have dealt with them 3 times all 3 were rude and bad, this was my <BR>last. Just wanted to pass this info on, we are automotive enthusiasts&nbsp;<BR> and it is a shame that some of the people with the classic parts forget&nbsp;<BR> that and just enjoy the money not the fun of it all.&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR> Bill Sodt (thanks for letting me vent)&nbsp;<BR> 71&nbsp;<BR> 72&nbsp;<BR> 71&nbsp;<BR> ROA10273&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR> I can relate to the message as I live very close to CTC and have had a similar experience with a printed circut board for the back of my 66 Olds 98 speedometer.&nbsp; He wanted $95 over the phone which was unreasonably expensive, but where else do I find that part.&nbsp; When I went up there a week later to get the part he said $135.&nbsp; I told him that only a week ago he wanted $95 and I said I would not pay any more than that.&nbsp; He&nbsp;said&nbsp;"I don't know where you heard $95," like he was accusing me of trying to rip him off.&nbsp; I told him that he himself gave me that price a week ago.&nbsp; After a lot of grumbling, he finally sold it to me for $95.&nbsp; Do not do business with this man.</P>
<P>Tim Bender</P>
<P>OCA #036909<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:18:42 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock??

At Tuesday, 26 October 2004, you wrote:
>Except in the case of most or all of the pistons having 
>collapsed skirts, then the noise never goes away, no matter 
>how hot the engine gets.

AHHhh... I was trying to rember..... one of the reasons for collapsed 
piston skirts IS severe overheating. You not only get galling of 
the aluminum on cylinder walls but the actual composition of the 
piston's aluminum can weaken, thus allowing the skirts to more-readily 
"collapse" inward.

SteveH



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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:22:12 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier

At Tuesday, 26 October 2004, you wrote:
>Have you, by chance, ever  heard of the Auto Gear Super 
>Case for the Muncie 4 speed transmission? It is a newer, 
>beefier version of the main case-the one Muncie should 
>have made in  the first place. It has provisions for bigger 
>bearings and is actually about .25 inch longer than the 
>stock main case. It makes the old maincase look frail by 
>comparison.

I'm sure some have; but I've never heard of a Muncie case breaking 
or cracking. I always stripped input shafts and cluster gears. Never 
actually broke any, just stripped teeth off them. It got to where 
Performance Center in Torrance, CA almost put aside my very own spare 
parts shelf in the back  ;o|

On the other hand, the Super T-10 that was stock in my '66 Frod Galaxy 
7-liter (428) convertible DID blow the case. Actually, the cluster 
gear split into several pieces and one piece apparently got caught 
in the other rotating pieces and shoved a nice 3" square hole through 
the bottom of the case. This was likely a fatique failure because 
I hadn't done any heavy pedal-tromping for some weeks in that car,
due to gas prices at the time and the on-going oil embargo  ;o\

The difference in size between the Super T-10 and Muncies was something 
else; the Super T-10 cluster gear would have made a VERY good hand/arm 
weight all by itself  ===========8-O

SteveH



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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:06:05 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: 67 442 for sale

  okay I will admit that the 67 442 that is for sale at 442.com is truly
a nice car....  "BUT" 37,500.00  is it me, or does this seem just a bit 
high?
what is there about this 442 that would make it worth that kind of money?

john 67 cutlass supreme 4 speed 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:09:23 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: 67 442 for sale

 okay I will admit that the 67 442 that is for sale at 442.com is truly
a nice car....  "BUT" 37,500.00  is it me, or does this seem just a bit 
high?
what is there about this 442 that would make it worth that kind of money?

john 67 cutlass supreme 4 speed 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:07:48 -0500
From: "MSRobson" <msrobson@ens.net>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

"Greed" comes to mind.

Mark 69 Cutlass S convertible

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of JOHN ORR
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:06 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 67 442 for sale

  okay I will admit that the 67 442 that is for sale at 442.com is truly
a nice car....  "BUT" 37,500.00  is it me, or does this seem just a bit 
high?
what is there about this 442 that would make it worth that kind of money?

john 67 cutlass supreme 4 speed 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:33:11 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: 67 442 for sale

  that's what I was thinking.... just did not want to come right out and say 
it... :-)

john


> "Greed" comes to mind.
>
> Mark 69 Cutlass S convertible
>
>
>  okay I will admit that the 67 442 that is for sale at 442.com is truly
> a nice car....  "BUT" 37,500.00  is it me, or does this seem just a bit
> high?
> what is there about this 442 that would make it worth that kind of money?
>
> john 67 cutlass supreme 4 speed
>
> 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:02:13 -0500
From: "MSRobson" <msrobson@ens.net>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

That's ok.  I'll say it.  

I'm sure it's nice, but there is also an old car salesman quote, "There's an
*ss for every seat."

  Mark 69 Cutlass S convertible

 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:11:40 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

At Tuesday, 26 October 2004, you wrote:

>That's ok.  I'll say it.  
>
>I'm sure it's nice, but there is also an old car salesman >quote,
"There's an *ss for every seat."

All together now: "El MUCHO Greedo!!!!!"

Good: now, louder: "EL MUCHO GREEDO!!!!!!!"

Great   ;o)))

SteveH



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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:36:55 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

Sour grapes. There is at least one of our own list members who occasionally
claims to be selling his car for an outrageous amount (not naming names).
Oddly enough, he still hasn't sold it. There are some people who don't
really want to sell their car unless they can get an outrageous price for
it. If you think the price is too high, all you have to do is not buy it.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of SteveH
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:12 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

At Tuesday, 26 October 2004, you wrote:

>That's ok.  I'll say it.
>
>I'm sure it's nice, but there is also an old car salesman >quote,
"There's an *ss for every seat."

All together now: "El MUCHO Greedo!!!!!"

Good: now, louder: "EL MUCHO GREEDO!!!!!!!"

Great   ;o)))

SteveH



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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:12:41 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <62oldsfan@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RE: 67 442 for sale

> There is at least one of our own list members who occasionally
> claims to be selling his car for an outrageous amount (not naming names).

Is it that beige '68 98 convertible???

Paul

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:31:29 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: RE: 67 442 for sale

Do you mean the Ivory colored one that sold for $3k? Yeah, that was an
outrageous amount.

John Nasta



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Paul Hartlieb
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:13 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: RE: 67 442 for sale


> There is at least one of our own list members who occasionally
> claims to be selling his car for an outrageous amount (not naming names).

Is it that beige '68 98 convertible???

Paul

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:36:35 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: 67 442 for sale

  hey john,
   don't want to start anything here....  "NO SOUR GRAPES" just an 
observation!
all the power to him, if he can get the price.....who the h*ll am I to tell 
him/her what
they can sell anything for....
john
67 cutlass supreme 4 speed 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:32:47 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock??

> AHHhh... I was trying to rember..... one of the reasons for collapsed
> piston skirts IS severe overheating. You not only get galling of
> the aluminum on cylinder walls but the actual composition of the >
piston's aluminum can weaken, thus allowing the skirts to more-readily
> "collapse" inward.


Absolutely. I forgot to say that. I don't know why, except for age, because
I *know* the piston skirts in the 330 for our '65 F-85 4-door are collapsed
to an extent, since Mary overheated the engine so bad about 18 months ago.
Fortunately, the engine still works okay, but I've got to find the money to
build a 403 for her.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:12:18 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament

Hi all,

I got the following in email from someone who'd seen my NOS '82 Cutlass 
Supreme hood ornament that I'm auctioning on the eVil site (item #2497225987 
and hey, thanks for asking :-), and they're looking for h*lp in finding a 
replacement hood ornament for their '79 H/O.

What puzzles me is that the image of the broken one that they sent me (which 
I can forward to anyone who's interested) is not what I expected; it's an 
elongated-shield shape with a stylized wreath crest and "Calais" on a black 
background in the middle. To me it looks more like what Olds put on their 
little FWD Calais (wasn't it?) a few years later.

Anyhow, here's the original email; please contact jwarrington3@cox.net if 
you can assist:

>From: "John  & Jennifer" <jwarrington3@cox.net>
>Subject: Emailing: cutlass
>Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:40:14 -0500
>
>Andy,
>
>The hood ornament is for a 79 hurst olds.  My son recently purchased it and 
>we are trying to find a few parts that are
>either damaged or missing.  I have the hood ornament that
>came with the car but it is broken. (See attachment) The
>base is broke out where it attaches to a spring and holds
>it in the molding.  I don't have the spring either, so I could use the 
>whole assy.  I would like to keep the car
>original, so I need the black ornament with calais on it.
>If you could put the word out,  I would appreciate it.
>
>                                     Thanks,   Jon.

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5072
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