
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, August 27 2004       Volume 01 : Number 5003



Caddys with the Olds motor
Caddys with the Olds motor
Caddy and FI: was Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys
Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys
Re: 1980 Olds Starfire 4 sale
Re: 403 Throwing Belts
Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys
cowl screen
Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: cowl screen
Re: 403 Throwing Belts
Re: 403 Throwing Belts
WTB - 1970 Cutlass S
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: cowl screen
RE: 403 Throwing Belts
70s Caddys with EFI Olds motor
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Caddys with the Olds motor
MSD Tech$ points conversion/tach
Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question
The sad end of a fellow bracket racer
correction - Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question
Re: The sad end of a fellow bracket racer
Re: 403 Throwing Belts
Re: The sad end of a fellow bracket racer
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Pulleys and such
Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
Re: Pulleys and such

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:24:45 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Caddys with the Olds motor

After checking pulley alignment, I would look into 
the 81 up 5.0 belt arrangement, which uses a much 
shorter alternator belt and a single pulley power 
steering pump.  Gives a lot less alt slipping and 
is very common in the yards.

That flapping A/C belt can use an idler down by 
the fuel pump (Olds put one on a few cars, later 
an air pump was there).  

Bruce Roe

26 Aug 2004  "Christian Sager" <chris.sager@cox.net> writes:

> Still trying to finish up my 403 Caprice Wagon project.  

> The engine can rev so quickly to 6000 RPMS that it 
> routinely throws all the belts off of it.  I am
> hoping to keep A/C and Power Stearing.

> I need to find a solution.  I know that Dick Miller has 
> a kit for about $550 to put a serpentine belt system 
> on the engine.  Is there any cheaper way?  Can anyone
>  get Dick Miller products below retail???

> Christian Sager

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:13:57 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Caddys with the Olds motor

The injected Olds 350 was 76-79 Seville, and 
79 & 80 CA Eldorado.  The engine performed OK 
compared to a carb, but Seville was 4400 lb and 
geared badly for performance.  A 403 would have 
been a much better choise for the car.  There was 
no electronic spark map.  It was also an option on 
the big block Cads, including the 500.  

26 Aug 2004  "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net> writes:
> Caddie's used a fuel injected version of the 350 olds engine
> about  the 1979 model year, in Seville's as I remember. Not 
> much performance, and due to the early computer system, 
> it was not that successful. 

> it needed a higher performance ECM, something that 
> would be possible now with today's ECM's

> I can't help wondering if a later style TBI unit would be 
> adaptable to the intake (look about the same) and then 
> all that would need tweaking would be the fuel mapping. 
> Of course, first one would have to find a complete one 
> of these to play around with..

The 8 port peak and hold injectors were superior to 
many systems built since then.  But the intake did not 
have runners to improve torque.  There are a lot of those 
systems around.  Most modifications are to use a 403 
block and a modern ECU, with electronic spark advance 
and lots of closed loops.  At my house the system has 
been converted to sequential injection, which allows 
individual cylinder tweaking, better idle, and lower 
emissions.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:40:02 -0400
From: Joe Vahabzadeh <king_v@mindless.com>
Subject: Caddy and FI: was Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

I think the first engines in Cadillacs with multiport FI were, in the same
year, 1976, and were:

1) The 500ci Cadillac motor
2) The Olds 350 for the Seville.


The former was only in 1976, though the 1977 to 1979 425 used injection as
well.  I don't know if they simply bolted the same system on, but I would
think so, considering that the pieces would fit.  Maybe just an adjustment
to the controller for the smaller displacement?

Don't recall about the 368, but considering it's the same block, it
probably could've used the same FI system.

The Olds 350 FI was used up to and including 1980 if I am not mistaken.

The HT4100 was DFI (Digital Fuel Injection) and was a throttle-body type
system IIRC.

	- Joe Vahabzadeh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:39:56 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys

Travis!

> Second, what are the spindle nuts supposed to be torqued to?  I torqued
> them down to 50ftlbs and then backed them off so the pin would fit.  The
> rotors turn freely and there is no play.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

They are not torqued!

50 pounds runs the risk of dimples in the races from the bearing rollers!

Directly from the Olds shop manual, emphasis is mine except for one.

ADJUSTMENT

The adjustment of front wheel bearings should be made (Olds emphasis) WHILE
REVOLVING THE WHEEL AT LEAST THREE TIMES THE SPEED OF NUT ROTATION when
taking the torque readings as follows:

1. Tighten adjusting nut with a torque wrench ***25 to 30 ft. lbs.*** to
insure that all parts are properly seated and threads are free.
(Most people usually use a crescent wrench and firm hand tighten. It's easy
to feel.)

2. Back off ***1/2 turn. Retighten nut finger tight.***

3. If unable to install cotter pin at finger tight position, ***back off to
first notch and install cotter pin.***


Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:58:37 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys

According to my CSM, spindle nut should be torqued to 12 ft lbs, while
turning the wheel forward to avoid bind, and then backing off and finger
tightening. This is for a 1987 B-body.
> Second, what are the spindle nuts supposed to be torqued to?  I torqued
> them down to 50ftlbs and then backed them off so the pin would fit.  The
> rotors turn freely and there is no play.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:58:05 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1980 Olds Starfire 4 sale

Darren,

Is this the one you were going to send me pictures of before?????????????

Could it be delivered to KC?

Take Care,
SrA Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
Already have 2 1980 Starfires.......

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:03:19 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 403 Throwing Belts

Christian,

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you.


> I've checked for all the pulley's to be true and they seem to be so.
> The pulley setup on the engine was off my '89 307 and I feel this may be
> part of the cause as its set up for a fairly fast belt speed.


I don't understand what you mean by "fairly fast belt speed?" What is the
diameter of the crank pulley, the water pump pulley, the alternator pulley,
the AC pulley, and the PS pulley? The crank pulley sets the basic belt
speed. Everything else spins at whatever speed their individual drive pulley
produces.


> When
> switching to the short stroke large displacement 403 the ability of the
> engine to rev will routinely blow perfectly aligned brand new belts off
> the motor.


No. In gear at WOT, it doesn't matter one bit. Something mechanical is
causing the problem.

With a first gear of 2.5 and a 4.11 rear axle and an engine at 6000 RPM,
disregarding tire slip, the time from point A to point B is identical for an
engine with a 3.5" stroke and one with a 4.25" stroke. It's the laws of
physics. Where the differences occur is in all the other varibles inside the
engine that makes power.

Thunder sees 6800 with her 57" belt around a 6 1/4" crank pulley, a 6 1/4"
water pump pulley, and a 2 3/4" alternator pulley. She's ***never*** lost a
belt. Ask Mark Mullins, Karl Sup, and Stephen Hoover how fast she
accelerates and how fast her engine winds up.


> The engine is making around 410HP and high 400's in torque.
> I am spinning the engine to around 6000 RPM.


I understand. However, your belt problem must be something mechanical to do
with alignment or positioning that's been missed.


> I wish it was not happening but I cant really drive the car without
> getting some sort of fix.  There are lots of smaller two groove pulley's
> out there but few 3 groove options as I'm hoping to keep P/S and A/C.


There's no reason why you can't have PS and AC. Please get me all of your
pulley diameters, groove widths, and belt widths.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:06:31 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys

That's close enough for government work. I was quoting out of the '65 shop
manual. The point is, 50 pounds was way too tight, plus the other finesse to
adjusting the spindle nut.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: B-Body spindle conversion FIXED !!! Thanks Guys


> According to my CSM, spindle nut should be torqued to 12 ft lbs, while
> turning the wheel forward to avoid bind, and then backing off and finger
> tightening. This is for a 1987 B-body.
> > Second, what are the spindle nuts supposed to be torqued to?  I torqued
> > them down to 50ftlbs and then backed them off so the pin would fit.  The
> > rotors turn freely and there is no play.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:22:24 -0500
From: "Bob" <macs63rd@iols.com>
Subject: cowl screen

I am looking for a cowl screen for a 1970 cutlass-no rips,
no runs, and no tears in it? Send a picture and price
Bob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:49:49 -0400
From: jp <limitedattention@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question

Thanks Milton,

I talked to the GMB tech and the pump I have is a High Performance 
model ... meaning about 10%-15% better flow.

My only concern is that the smaller Water Pump pulley will be "too" 
efficient as it was designed for OEM Water Pumps & Radiators.

But I'm way out of my realm of real-time experience and understanding here.

So I'll start with your suggestion and adjust accordingly.

Thanks for your help.

jp



>  > Given the above information what would be the best size for the crank
>>  and water pump pulleys?  Larger ones or smaller ones or a combination?
>
>
>I'd use the smaller ones, 6 1/4" on both the crank and water pump, just like
>a W30. If you have any overheating problems, switch the crank pulley to a 7
>1/4" in order to handle the increased internal capacity of the aluminum
>radiator. Just be sure to have a good clutch fan and tight radiator shroud.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:38:00 GMT
From: "njot33@juno.com" <njot33@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

The HT4100 is an aluminum 4.1 liter V8 made by Cadillac.
This was not exactly the best motor in the world from what I understand.

In the early 80s, you could either get the V-8-6-4 (1981 only), the Olds diesel 350, the 4.1 liter Buick V6, or the aforementioned Cadillac 4.1 liter V8.  Not good years for Cadillac.  The Buick V6 was the best of the bunch, but of course it's a V6 in a rather large car.

Most had the 4.1 liter V8, but there were some reliability issues with that motor.  I forget what they were, though.

________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:41:26 GMT
From: "njot33@juno.com" <njot33@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

As someone else mentioned, if Cadillac used the Olds 350, it must have been the late 70s when the cars were being downsized.

In 1979 or 1980, they started using their own 368 V8.  This is what became the V-8-6-4 in 1981.  As a regular V8, the 368 was fine.  But obviously as a V-8-6-4, it wasn't.

Too bad, it was a really cool idea.
- -scott

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:34:59 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: cowl screen

> I am looking for a cowl screen for a 1970 cutlass-no rips,
> no runs, and no tears in it? Send a picture and price
> Bob
>

Isn't this just cut out of a window screen type mesh ??

If so, I have mine off the vehicle right now, I could make a template and mail it to you. Hit me offline at
kcolund@shaw.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:09:06 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 403 Throwing Belts

> > I've checked for all the pulley's to be true and they seem to be so.
> > The pulley setup on the engine was off my '89 307 and I feel this may be
> > part of the cause as its set up for a fairly fast belt speed.

MAKE SURE ALL brackets are present and all bolts are tight! Also, you may
want to take a close look at each of the accessories when you whack the
throttle open to make sure they're not wobbling around for any reason - I
had a similar problem when I ran without the rear alternator bracket (bad
idea.)

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:27:50 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: 403 Throwing Belts

> > > I've checked for all the pulley's to be true and they seem to be so.
> > > The pulley setup on the engine was off my '89 307 and I feel this may be
> > > part of the cause as its set up for a fairly fast belt speed.

Sometime's it seems a batch of belts comes out that is a harder rubber than others and seems to toss easier. I ran
goodyear belts for years and then suddenly started puking them after a belt change. I went through three belts in two
weeks before switching to Dayco, which fixed the problem.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:45:34 -0400
From: "David Popadic" <davepopadic@core.com>
Subject: WTB - 1970 Cutlass S

Still have a friend looking to buy a 1970 Cutlass S.  Looking somewhere 
around the midwest (anywhere around 10-15 hours away from WI).

Thanks,
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:23:26 -0400
From: robert.demuth@prudential.com
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

I am responsible for sending one of these EFI units to never-never land
(and no, not where that creepy pop singer lives).  After a list member
expressed interest in it, I tried to get it out of the auto body scrap
dumpster into which I put it, but alas, the dumpster had already been
emptied.  It would have needed quite a bit of work to function in any
capacity anyway ... the throttle body was siezed closed with corrosion.
The ports looked quite small on it, and I doubt it would make a good
performance EFI intake.

The engine it came from is a '79 350, and I was told it came out of an
Eldorado.  I wish I could send it back to that Eldo, but it's probably been
turned in to about 8 Toyotas bodies by now ... lol.

Bob DeMuth.
'72 88 conv.

>>>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:20:54 -0700
From: "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

Caddie's used a fuel injected version of the 350 olds engine about the 1979
model year, in Seville's as I remember. Not much performance, and due to
the
early computer system, it was not that successful. Seems that just like the
8-6-4 it needed a higher performance ECM, something that would be possible
now with today's ECM's

I can't help wondering if a later style TBI unit would be adaptable to the
intake (look about the same) and then all that would need tweaking would be
the fuel mapping. Of course, first one would have to find a complete one of
these to play around with..
<<<

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:09:27 -0400
From: "The General" <patton442@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

> I am responsible for sending one of these EFI units to never-never land
> (and no, not where that creepy pop singer lives).  



Meatloaf is not creepy ............

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:22:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: cowl screen

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Kevin & Casey Olund wrote:
> > I am looking for a cowl screen for a 1970 cutlass-no rips,
> > no runs, and no tears in it? Send a picture and price
> > Bob

Bob, I got one from Everett Horton (antiqolds@aol.com) who is usually a
member of this list but currently is taking a break. Give him a try. 

> Isn't this just cut out of a window screen type mesh ??

I thought so too, but when I was trying to find the right kind of mesh
around here it was impossible. They either had stuff that was way too fine
or way too coarse. Plus, the factory screen has 1 or 2 places where it is
slightly formed, not that that would be impossible to duplicate.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
          Olds List Admin Info: http://oldslist.oldsgmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:37:28 -0400
From: "Christian Sager" <chris.sager@cox.net>
Subject: RE: 403 Throwing Belts

Thanks for the quick response Milton,

I believe the crank pulley is of the larger variety, 7 1/8"?  I'm not
with the car now so I'm not sure its exact measurement.  I have had a
really hard time trying to find a smaller one with 3 grooves.  I know
the W30's had a smaller, maybe much smaller, pulley but did they have 3
grooves?  Maybe just changing the crank pulley would slow the belts down
enough to keep them on the front of the motor.  Does anyone have such a
thing around?  An old pulley would certainly be far more economical than
the whole serpentine kit.

I've tried several different kinds of belts and they run fine until I
rev it really good in 1st gear.  All the brackets are correctly
installed and tight and there's no visible wobbles at any engine RPM.

Thanks guys!

Christian

P.S.  If a small 3 groove pulley exists I'll send a check for one on
Monday if someone has an extra!



- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Infinite Space
Systems, Inc.
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:03 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: 403 Throwing Belts

Christian,

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you.


> I've checked for all the pulley's to be true and they seem to be so.
> The pulley setup on the engine was off my '89 307 and I feel this may
be
> part of the cause as its set up for a fairly fast belt speed.


I don't understand what you mean by "fairly fast belt speed?" What is
the
diameter of the crank pulley, the water pump pulley, the alternator
pulley,
the AC pulley, and the PS pulley? The crank pulley sets the basic belt
speed. Everything else spins at whatever speed their individual drive
pulley
produces.


> When
> switching to the short stroke large displacement 403 the ability of
the
> engine to rev will routinely blow perfectly aligned brand new belts
off
> the motor.


No. In gear at WOT, it doesn't matter one bit. Something mechanical is
causing the problem.

With a first gear of 2.5 and a 4.11 rear axle and an engine at 6000 RPM,
disregarding tire slip, the time from point A to point B is identical
for an
engine with a 3.5" stroke and one with a 4.25" stroke. It's the laws of
physics. Where the differences occur is in all the other varibles inside
the
engine that makes power.

Thunder sees 6800 with her 57" belt around a 6 1/4" crank pulley, a 6
1/4"
water pump pulley, and a 2 3/4" alternator pulley. She's ***never***
lost a
belt. Ask Mark Mullins, Karl Sup, and Stephen Hoover how fast she
accelerates and how fast her engine winds up.


> The engine is making around 410HP and high 400's in torque.
> I am spinning the engine to around 6000 RPM.


I understand. However, your belt problem must be something mechanical to
do
with alignment or positioning that's been missed.


> I wish it was not happening but I cant really drive the car without
> getting some sort of fix.  There are lots of smaller two groove
pulley's
> out there but few 3 groove options as I'm hoping to keep P/S and A/C.


There's no reason why you can't have PS and AC. Please get me all of
your
pulley diameters, groove widths, and belt widths.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:26:55 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: 70s Caddys with EFI Olds motor

I suppose you don't have the electronic control unit 
either?  I collect these in any condition, for parts to 
repair others.  Helps out all those people with 70s 
Cadillacs, having EFI problems.

I DO have some of those 78-79 aluminum intakes 
to spare.  Also still have a 70s alternator 80 amp 
conversion kit I would like to send toa good home. 

Bruce (trying gto move) Roe


On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:23:26 -0400 robert.demuth@prudential.com writes:
> I tried to get it out of the auto body scrap dumpster into 
> which I put it, but alas, the dumpster had already been
> emptied.  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:30:01 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

harries u pull it in P.A. has a few of those  crappy caddy cars with one strong 350 olds motor.
ofton wounder why olds did not develope it for there own cars
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <robert.demuth@prudential.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor


> 
> I am responsible for sending one of these EFI units to never-never land
> (and no, not where that creepy pop singer lives).  After a list member
> expressed interest in it, I tried to get it out of the auto body scrap
> dumpster into which I put it, but alas, the dumpster had already been
> emptied.  It would have needed quite a bit of work to function in any
> capacity anyway ... the throttle body was siezed closed with corrosion.
> The ports looked quite small on it, and I doubt it would make a good
> performance EFI intake.
> 
> The engine it came from is a '79 350, and I was told it came out of an
> Eldorado.  I wish I could send it back to that Eldo, but it's probably been
> turned in to about 8 Toyotas bodies by now ... lol.
> 
> Bob DeMuth.
> '72 88 conv.
> 
> >>>
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:20:54 -0700
> From: "David Manly" <dmanlyr@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor
> 
> Caddie's used a fuel injected version of the 350 olds engine about the 1979
> model year, in Seville's as I remember. Not much performance, and due to
> the
> early computer system, it was not that successful. Seems that just like the
> 8-6-4 it needed a higher performance ECM, something that would be possible
> now with today's ECM's
> 
> I can't help wondering if a later style TBI unit would be adaptable to the
> intake (look about the same) and then all that would need tweaking would be
> the fuel mapping. Of course, first one would have to find a complete one of
> these to play around with..
> <<<
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:45:04 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Caddys with the Olds motor

27 Aug 2004  "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net> writes:
> ofton wonder why olds did not develop it for their own cars
> ron

Primary reason was cost. It was an expensive system, much 
more than the cheap stuff that immediately followed it.  

Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:20:41 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: MSD Tech$ points conversion/tach

Hello
Well i finally cleared up the tach,,i had guessed that the tach wire should not be on neg. coil no more(it would pick up the multiple spark at the lower rpms)i figured it should go on the white trigger wire from points to the MSD box.
I was correct,upon phoneing MSD tech they simply told me to splice tach wire to the white trigger wire from points...problem solved tach is a smooth as a babys bum!.
Funny thing is if you read info from MSD supplied with the tach adapter or the #5MSD box it clearly states you will need the adaptor($38.oo without tax:O)if useing the points as a trigger.I will be returning the adaptor so i may git my hard earned cash back.
Also i had emailed them a while back..finally they sent me this...
>
>Dear Sir, 

For your application, you are going to need a tach/fuel adapter part number 8920.  This adapter is used to clear up the signal to your stock ECU.  This should take care of your problem.  It would be cheaper if you get pricing and availability through an MSD Dealer. Our prices are 30 to 40% higher because we are contracted not to undersell our dealers. You can obtain a list of dealers who can provide you with prices and availability off of our website at <www.msdignition.com> under AUTOMOTIVE DEALERS.

Thanks, 
MSD Tech 
>
>
Seems everyone trys to squeeze a extra buck or two outa ya when they can.
Good luck!
Randy H.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:34:14 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question

> I talked to the GMB tech and the pump I have is a High Performance
> model ... meaning about 10%-15% better flow.


Except that you are using an aluminum radiator that has a greater internal
volume with larger volume in the tubes. It won't matter.


> My only concern is that the smaller Water Pump pulley will be "too"
> efficient as it was designed for OEM Water Pumps & Radiators.


No, the larger 7 1/4" water pump pulley was for AC and the larger radiator.
The 6 1/4" water pump pulley is for non-AC and the smaller radiator. That's
why Olds used 6 1/4" for both the crank and the water pump on W30s to give a
better balance for cooling a high performance engine that wouldn't see much
stop-and-go driving.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:36:15 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: The sad end of a fellow bracket racer

Hello
We lost a fellow bracket racer to a drunk driver Aug. 22.
Of course the 3 girls in the other car that hit John are ok now.
http://www.horsepowerheaven.com/memorial/heida/heidasheet2_hnf_100.jpg
http://www.horsepowerheaven.com/memorial/heida/heida01.ht
There is a link to a petition to upgrade the bridge like they did in Seattle here...
http://www.johnheidaproject.com/
,,,i not sure if it proper to sign if you are living outa town?
But if you or your loved ones ever visit here, would you not want a safe passage over the bridge?
Its been a very sad week :(
Please dont drink and drive!!
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.
Canada

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:48:31 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: correction - Re: Pulley Dia. --- Next Question

JP

I screwed this post up big time! I was thinking about you and Christian at
the same time. Big mistake.

I meant to say it this way:

> > My only concern is that the smaller Water Pump pulley will be "too"
> > efficient as it was designed for OEM Water Pumps & Radiators.


Again, with the much larger internal capacity of the aluminum radiator, it
shouldn't make any difference. If you start out with 6 1/4" for both the
crank and the water pump like Olds did on W30s, you can always switch to a 7
1/4" on the crank if necessary for more cooling flow. Olds did the 6 1/4" on
both to give a better balance for cooling a W30 high performance engine that
wouldn't see much stop-and-go driving.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:58:45 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: The sad end of a fellow bracket racer

- -------------------------------1093647525
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK, that's two now, not to be a pessimist but,it usually comes in three's, my 
heart goes out to family and friends.
TJ

- -------------------------------1093647525
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>OK, that's two now, not to be a pessimist but,it usually comes in three=
's, my heart goes out to family and friends.</DIV>
<DIV>TJ</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1093647525--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:05:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 403 Throwing Belts

Christian,

> I believe the crank pulley is of the larger variety, 7 1/8"?


That would make sense, because a factory AC system should use a 7 1/4"
pulley on the crank.


> I have had a
> really hard time trying to find a smaller one with 3 grooves.


For proper coolant flow velocity with AC and the larger AC radiator, the
crank pulley should be 7 1/4". A 6 1/4" crank pulley with 3 grooves might be
very scarce, since 6 1/4" isn't used for an AC crank pulley.


> I know
> the W30's had a smaller, maybe much smaller, pulley but did they have 3
> grooves?


Not that I know of. There's still only 2 diameters used, 6 1/4" and 7 1/4",
unless someone else has found something else out there in Olds used parts
land. The 6 1/4" W30 crank pulley is 2 groove and the 6 1/4" W30 water pump
pulley is single groove.


> Maybe just changing the crank pulley would slow the belts down
> enough to keep them on the front of the motor.  Does anyone have such a
> thing around?  An old pulley would certainly be far more economical than
> the whole serpentine kit.


I do have the 7 1/4" 4-groove AC crank pulley and the 6 1/4" 4-groove water
pump pulley from a '77 Toronado 403, if you wanted to try those.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:39:27 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: The sad end of a fellow bracket racer

> We lost a fellow bracket racer to a drunk driver Aug. 22.
http://www.horsepowerheaven.com/memorial/heida/heidasheet2_hnf_100.jpg


Is that a modified Cobra? Cool! What engine and drivetrain?


> There is a link to a petition to upgrade the bridge like they did in
Seattle here...
> http://www.johnheidaproject.com/


Typical government officials. We gotta get off this rock.


> Its been a very sad week :(


I understand. He's now with the Warriors.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:18:39 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

I GET THAT BUT  FACT IS OLDS WAS RUNNING EFI ENGINES, BEFORE CHEVY. ALL IT WOULD OF TAKEN WAS SOME
R&D AND OLDS COULD OF BEEN THE DOMINATE ENGINE.  BUT  GM HAD A BETTER IDEA.
RON
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe@juno.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 5:45 PM
Subject: Caddys with the Olds motor


> 27 Aug 2004  "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net> writes:
> > ofton wonder why olds did not develop it for their own cars
> > ron
>
> Primary reason was cost. It was an expensive system, much
> more than the cheap stuff that immediately followed it.
>
> Bruce Roe
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:08:51 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Pulleys and such

 From the '68 Assembly manual:

Code     PN            Description                P.D.       O.D. 
Grooves      Car
KA     401462         Fan & Water 
pump     6.98       7.075         2           Std (W30)
KB     399402         Fan 
Drive                   6.34       6.435         2           Std
KC     399405         Fan 
Drive                   7.32       7.415         3           A/C
KD     399399         Fan & Water 
pump     6.98       7.075         1           Std
KE     399401         Fan & Water 
pump     6.98       7.075         2           Std
KF     399404         Fan & Water 
pump     6.00       6.095         3            A/C
KG     399403         Pwr Steering 
pump     5.610     5.705         1            Std
KH     399406         Pwr Steering 
pump     6.480     6.575         2            A/C


Drive ratios:

Pulley                    Ratio                         usage
crank/fan                .9083 to 1                  Standard
crank/fan                1.22 to 1                    A/C
Crank/generator      2.536 to 1                   Standard
Crank/generator      2.928 to 1                   A/C
Crank/ P-S             1.130 to 1                   Standard
Crank/ P-S             1.1296 to 1                 A/C
Crank/compressor   1.718 to 1                  A/C
Crank/compressor   1.464 to 1                  A/C








Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:12:17 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Caddys with the Olds motor

At 09:18 PM 8/27/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>I GET THAT BUT  FACT IS OLDS WAS RUNNING EFI ENGINES, BEFORE CHEVY.

Ummm... EFI, but not FI. Ch*bby and Poncho both had fuel injection in 1957.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:33:19 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys and such

This is absolutely great! If more people have assembly manuals that have
this type of engine pulley listing, please post them. It's much more
accurate that using a tape measure. Also, these diameters are taken from
where the mid-section of the belt is supposed to ride and are uniform from
one pulley to another. The drive ratios are also valuable. I also see some
real differences in W30 pulleys. I wonder if I can find the old receipts
with my pulley part numbers? I just saved this list. I hope I see more
posted!

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


> From the '68 Assembly manual:
>
> Code     PN            Description                P.D.       O.D.
> Grooves      Car
> KA     401462         Fan & Water
> pump     6.98       7.075         2           Std (W30)
> KB     399402         Fan
> Drive                   6.34       6.435         2           Std
> KC     399405         Fan
> Drive                   7.32       7.415         3           A/C
> KD     399399         Fan & Water
> pump     6.98       7.075         1           Std
> KE     399401         Fan & Water
> pump     6.98       7.075         2           Std
> KF     399404         Fan & Water
> pump     6.00       6.095         3            A/C
> KG     399403         Pwr Steering
> pump     5.610     5.705         1            Std
> KH     399406         Pwr Steering
> pump     6.480     6.575         2            A/C
>
>
> Drive ratios:
>
> Pulley                    Ratio                         usage
> crank/fan                .9083 to 1                  Standard
> crank/fan                1.22 to 1                    A/C
> Crank/generator      2.536 to 1                   Standard
> Crank/generator      2.928 to 1                   A/C
> Crank/ P-S             1.130 to 1                   Standard
> Crank/ P-S             1.1296 to 1                 A/C
> Crank/compressor   1.718 to 1                  A/C
> Crank/compressor   1.464 to 1                  A/C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Mullins
> Tucson, Az
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5003
*********************************
