
oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, August 25 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5001



Re: I'm back!
shipping a bumper
Re: New 71 heap / smogger era heads and block...
Re: shipping a bumper
Removing the dash
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: Removing the dash
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 other
Re: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 other
'70 442 convert sold
Re: '70 442 convert sold
Re: I'm back!
Pulley Diameter Question
Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403
Re: Removing the dash
Oklahoma members
Re: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 others
Re: Removing the dash
Re: Removing the dash
Re: Removing the dash
Re: Pulley Diameter Question
Re: Pulley Diameter Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:02:57 -0400
From: "ftfunnyfarm" <ftfunnyfarm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: I'm back!

So glad that you and your family and your cars made it threw!!!

Tami

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:07:30 -0400
From: "Kurt" <wmachine@shubes.net>
Subject: shipping a bumper

I know this was covered before, but what is the best (read cheapest) way to
ship a bumper core?

Kurt mailto:wmachine@shubes.net
http://wmachines.shubes.net
'65 Jetstar 1 (4-speed)       '66 442 Sport Coupe (Tri-Carb, 4-speed)
'67 442 Convertible (4-speed) '69 442 Convertible (3-speed manual)
'92 Achieva SCX W-41(5-speed) '04 Expedition (no-speed)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:16:07 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: New 71 heap / smogger era heads and block...

That is likely a 77-80  350, with 1/2" head bolts.  Those are not
>ideal for souping up.  But in stock form, an excellant long life
>engine.  I have seen them past 200,000 miles with heads not
>removed, no oil use, good compression, and NO evidence of
>a ring ridge.  Bruce Roe

Bruce:

Sounds great. I'd keep it if it were more than the block and the heads. But 
if you go through the trouble if boring and building a block from scratch, 
I think you want to go with something stronger...

It's free if you pick up. ;)

George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:28:35 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: shipping a bumper

>I know this was covered before, but what is the best (read cheapest) way to
>ship a bumper core?

I had good luck with USPS parcel post. Definitely not expensive, but I am 
unsure if it is indeed the cheapest.

George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:28:39 EDT
From: SSpuehler@aol.com
Subject: Removing the dash

Well we went to Woodward Dream Cruise and had a blast looking at all the 
cars, but I didn't see any other 83 Hurst/Olds.  The official Dream Cruise photo 
book made up for it though featuring a 83 Hurst/Olds on page 51.  A real nice 
car except for the rims weren't stock.  

We almost didn't make it.  After my thermostat stuck I went to replace it 
Friday afternoon and snapped off a bolt in the intake.  Not having a screw 
extracter myself and not wanting to really screw things up beyond repair I took it 
into a local garage.  They had it done at about noon on Saterday and we started 
out late that same day.  

I tried to go to the Wendy's on Woodward Ave for a frosty but I couldn't even 
use the drive through.

On a different note I'd like to know how to go about removing the dash from 
my car.  I'm not really mechanically incllned and will probably have a friend 
help me also.  Any tips on how to take it out would be appreciated.

Steve Spuehler
83 Hurst/Olds
96 Dodge Ram Indy Sport

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:59:22 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

THAT's what I was fishing for.

I don't think I agree with you about a lot of non-automotive things, but I
certainly appreciate your point of view (that's why I asked for it).


>
>You have a valid point. The auto makers were in it just for the buck. Their
>only questions were how to make it fast, how to make it cheap, and what's
>the most money we can get. The GM quality plate didn't mean much anymore.
>
>However, the environmentalists were screaming then about both environmental
>damage from oil drilling and how we would very shortly run out of oil
>**before** the end of the century. Our big engine gas-guzzling cars were the
>root-of-all-evil. And hot-rods....jeezeee, they hated hot-rods.
>
>I remember the National Highway Traffic & Safety Administration were
>wringing their collective hands over all the "high-powered race cars" the
>manufacturers sold on the streets and the carnage these high horse power
>monsters caused. Sounds like the same stupid arguments for firearms control.
>The inanimate object causes all the death and destruction, not the human
>mind using the inanimate object. Talk about a failure to take personal
>responsibility for one's action, as promoted by the attitude behind LBJ's
>Great Society.
>
>The insurance companies jumped on the NHTSA bandwagon, hoping to force the
>auto manufacturers to do away with "performance" in favor of "mom-and-pop"
>rolling bread-boxes. That way, the insurance companies could still charge
>the same rates but should be able to lower the claim rates, which would mean
>more money in their pockets in the long run.
>
>Then we have the gutless wonders for our presidents. Isn't it convenient for
>the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 to occur when we are winding down from our
>engagement in Viet Nam and using less and less petro-based fuel due to a
>decrease in operational missions? When a F-4 Phantom left the runway on a
>typical attack mission, it carried the same number of gallons 6 average
>automobiles use in 1 year. That doesn't count any aerial refueling. So how
>are the oil suppliers going to make up for that revenue loss? Use a
>convenient Arab-Israeli war to declare an oil embargo and drive up prices.
>The partners in OPEC will take care of each other.
>
>Now, if you are an American president who has just had his administration
>hit with a devastating economic oil embargo, what do you do? Do you just
>roll over and do nothing, like Gerald Ford did, and later the same as Jimmy
>Carter, or do you cut off all of the massive military aid sales to the Arab
>oil producers, along with food and other types of industrial shipments. If
>you have guts, you do the later, fight an economic boycott with your own
>economic boycott. Christ, a bunch of cowards. If Nixon hadn't blown both of
>his feet off with Watergate, he might have had the guts to stand up to OPEC.
>We'll never know.
>
>Just remember, when Jimmy Carter failed to go ahead with the Iranian hostage
>rescue mission, especially after he got the phone call from the Soviets
>telling him to stand down, when Reagan was inaugurated, the Iranians
>literally turned the hostages over minutes later. If OPEC tried to pull an
>oil embargo on Reagan, what would Reagan have said? "Over my dead body," or
>something like that.
>
>So there's many facets to the decline of the American automobile performance
>machine from the mid-'70s. I'll stick to the '60s Olds stuff.
>
>Milton Schick
>1964 442 Cutlass
>imp@theriver.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:06:30 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Removing the dash

At 10:28 PM 8/24/2004 EDT, you wrote:
>On a different note I'd like to know how to go about removing 
>the dash from my car.  I'm not really mechanically incllned 
>and will probably have a friend help me also.  Any tips on how 
>to take it out would be appreciated.

How much of the dash do you want to remove: the whole thing going all the
way across, or just the gage cluster? Cluster removal is very simple, once
you know where the screws are, you can do it in a cupla minutes. It's
detailed here:
http://tech.oldsgmail.com/eint_cluster.html

Removing the entire dashboard all the way across isn't for the
faint-hearted. It's not really all that tough but once apart, you'd dang
well better want to put it back in again before long or you'll forget how
it all goes together  ;o\

Basically, you remove the dashpad and cluster first. Then you need to
remove the radio/heater control faceplate. This simply pulls out but it'll
seem like it doesn't. You also need to remove other faceplates like the one
above the radio/heater controls: pull it off. You probably need to pull off
the faceplate on the left side of the dash but I can't rember exactly.

With all the faceplates removed, you can see some phillips-head screws
securing the dash; those come out. Then you need to remove the radio and
get the heater/AC control panel loose. You CAN leave them in but the
radio's heavy and makes handing the loose dash awkward. The cables on the
heater/AC control can cause the brittle plastic to break so you do need to
get that panel loose. IIRC, there's screws in the back holding it in and
it's not that tough, especially with the radio out. The tough part about
getting the radio out is loosening the nut holding the side bracket(s) to
the radio; not much room and you'll scratch up yer hand a bit  ;o(

Now, the whole dash should be loose at the top end. There are also three
bolts/nuts holding the lower part of the dash to steel brackets bolted to
the firewall; those have to come out. There will be one or two ground wires
under those bolts and it's very important that you put them back when you
reassemble the dash.

I believe you also have to disconnect the parking brake cable from the
lever on the left side.

There are air conditioning/heater ducts that will have to come out at some
point while doing all the above, I don't rember the exact sequence.

Altogether, count on several hours of unscrewing/unbolting and looking for
other screws holding things together before you get the thing loose. But
you ain't done. Now you've got a few wiring harnesses attached to the back
side of the dash that you have to disconnect at the ends. DON'T remove the
harnesses from the dash, leave them attached. Instead, trace them out and
unplug them from wherever you have to. You will have to unbolt the fuse box
to get the main dash harness disconnected (and if it wasn't obvious,
DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE STARTING ANY OF THIS!!!).

Try not to disconnect the AC/heater control panel's cables, so you won't
hafta monkey around trying to figger out how it goes back together. And
don't disconnect the ends of the cables, either, unless you have other
reasons to do so.

If you have one, use yer digital camera to document what you remove, and
where. I find it helpful to put certain screws/hardware in plastic baggies
and label them: "Defroster duct", "Cluster screws", etc. Then you'll more
likely to put the right screws back in the right holes  ;o)  It wouldn't
hurt to also make a rough sketch as you go along, listing what you're
taking out and when, along with where it came from. Since you don't have a
whole lot of confidence yet in what you're doing, this will help greatly
when the time comes to put it all back together.

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:47:46 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

> THAT's what I was fishing for.
>
> I don't think I agree with you about a lot of non-automotive things, but I
> certainly appreciate your point of view (that's why I asked for it).


Brian,

And that's what makes a horserace, a society, and a culture. Different
opinions and life experiences all trying to find a common ground while
preserving individual Freedom and Liberty, which must be preserved at all
costs.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:27:51 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 other

Jim Buckley was a Chicago resident and a member of the OCA.  Didn't know 
him, but he is listed in the OCA member directory with that car and a 
Chicago address.

Joe Varley
      AZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:36:02 -0400
From: "ron fama" <77w30442@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 other

he will be missed by family and friends.
ron
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe & Gloria Varley" <carcouple@cox.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 other


> Jim Buckley was a Chicago resident and a member of the OCA.  Didn't know 
> him, but he is listed in the OCA member directory with that car and a 
> Chicago address.
> 
> Joe Varley
>       AZ
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:51:24 -0700
From: Joe & Gloria Varley <carcouple@cox.net>
Subject: '70 442 convert sold

The black '70 442 convert for sale on 442.com sold today for 
$45,000.00.  Car is the one in Arizona. Owner is a club member here.  Damn, 
is this getting crazy or what??????????

Joe Varley
       AZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:35:50 -0700
From: geo.aigel@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: '70 442 convert sold

Once the baby boomers are going over the rainbow bridge, one can expect 
their widows unloading the toys for a bunch less. I just can not imagine 
that these cars are as hot for as many people that didn't grow up with them 
as they are for the ones that were there. Car Craft just has an article on 
muscle car craze. It is amazing.

I am tempted to sell the 442. On the other hand, it now looks better than 
ever, to restore it. You won't get a nice one for under 15-20k as you were 
still able to 5 years ago. For that, I can redo mine ...

Aren't 40s cars (minus hotrods) less desirable today than they were in the 80s?

George

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:42:19 -0400
From: "Pat Swanton \"swanny\"" <swannys78@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: I'm back!

Glad you and your family are safe.

Cheers
Pat Swanton
Winchester NH
1978 Cutlass Supreme
http://www.cardomain.com/id/swannys78
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Ecker" <ecker567@comcast.net>
To: <oldsgmail@spots.ab.ca>; <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>;
<gbody@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: I'm back!


> In case anyone is interested, we weathered Hurricane Charley and finally
> got our internet service back today.
>
> I have almost 2 weeks of emails to catch up on - this may take a bit!
>
> Hope everyone else is well, will catch up on all of the topics as
> quickly as possible.
>
> --
> Michael Ecker
> Lehigh Acres, Florida
> ecker567@comcast.net
>
> 1978 Cutlass Supreme - $500 purchase, being slowly fixed up
>    (in line for V6-to-403 swap soon, and maybe 200-4R and gears...)
>
> 1979 Cutlass Supreme Brougham - becoming a circle track car
>    (bought without title, had Certificate of Destruction so can never
>     be re-registered, but will uphold the Oldsmobile name with honor)
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:04:13 -0400
From: jp <limitedattention@mac.com>
Subject: Pulley Diameter Question

Does anybody know where I can find a listing of the diameters for the 
various pulleys offered on the 350 & 455 engines in the 69-72 A Body 
cars.

I recently asked Chris Witt and he said that he thought they were in 
the Assembly Manual.

I've looked all over my '72 Assembly Manual as well as the 
Illustrated Parts Book.

Nothing that I can find.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

jp

'72 Cutlass Convertible
Vermont

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:57:10 -0400
From: "JOHN ORR" <jorr@paylessequipment.com>
Subject: Re: F/S: 1977 Delta 88 4dr 403

Milton,
  can't say it any better then that!!!!!
john 
67 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:06:30 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Removing the dash

> The tough part about
> getting the radio out is loosening the nut holding the side bracket(s) to
> the radio; not much room and you'll scratch up yer hand a bit  ;o(
I just remove the four 7mm screws under the radio bezel and slide the radio
forward, with side brackets still attached.

> I believe you also have to disconnect the parking brake cable from the
> lever on the left side.
The problem I seem to have, and I dont know if I have found a way around
this, is on either side of the AC vent under the steering column, there are
two attachment points at the bottom of the dash.  They are not screw heads,
but more like smooth top rivets or something.  How do you get that part off
without cutting the metal supports or breaking them off?

Rob
Free Olds classifieds and Olds car registry at www.allolds.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Crumley <crumleym_50@yahoo.com>
Subject: Oklahoma members

Hello all,
I have moved back home to the OKC area.  Interested in
meeting some list members and finding out the local
hot spots for cruising.  Hopefully in the next few
months I'll also be in the market to purchase another
Cutlass.  You can reach me at crumleym_50@yahoo.com.

Matt C.
Choctaw, OK


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. 
http://messenger.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:51:09 EDT
From: TJPROD@aol.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Crash kills fire chief, 4 others

- -------------------------------1093445469
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was at that accident site Sunday, it was horrible, I was on the  way to 
Chicago. It was a very fiery crash, bodies on the roadway. I came upon  it after 
it happened, I saw the explosion ahead but didn't realize what it  was at 
first, the emergency vehicles were just getting there to put it  out. Completely 
shut down the South bound lane, traffic was backed up for  miles. 
My heart goes out to the family and friends.
 
TJ

- -------------------------------1093445469
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>I&nbsp;was at that accident site&nbsp;Sunday, it was horrible, I was on=
 the=20
way to Chicago. It was a very fiery crash, bodies on the roadway. I came upo=
n=20
it&nbsp;after it happened, I saw the explosion ahead but didn't realize what=
 it=20
was at first,&nbsp;the emergency vehicles were just getting there to put it=20
out.&nbsp;Completely shut down the South bound lane, traffic was backed up f=
or=20
miles.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My heart goes out to the family and friends.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>TJ</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1093445469--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:50:55 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Removing the dash

At Wednesday, 25 August 2004, you wrote:
>The problem I seem to have, and I dont know if I have 
>found a way around this, is on either side of the AC 
>vent under the steering column, there are two attachment 
>points at the bottom of the dash.  They are not screw heads,
>but more like smooth top rivets or something.  How do you 
>get that part off without cutting the metal supports or 
>breaking them off?

I think I know what yer talking bout but not positive. If those are 
what I think they are, they're rivets holding the bottom part of 
the dash to a steel bracket running behind the dash underneath the 
steery column. This steel bracket is what is held up by the steery 
column bolts (studs, actually). It remains attached to the dash, 
you can't remove it. But you have to unbolt it from the firewall 
brackets in order to pull the dashboard back from the firewall and 
remove it from the car.

ANYTIME you see what looks like a rivet, STOP and do not proceed.
There will always be another removable fastener somewhere. Rivets 
are used where assembly is intended to be permanent.

SteveH



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===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:54:32 -0400
From: "RobV" <rv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Removing the dash

> I think I know what yer talking bout but not positive. If those are
> what I think they are, they're rivets holding the bottom part of
> the dash to a steel bracket running behind the dash underneath the
> steery column. This steel bracket is what is held up by the steery
> column bolts (studs, actually). It remains attached to the dash,
> you can't remove it. But you have to unbolt it from the firewall
> brackets in order to pull the dashboard back from the firewall and
> remove it from the car.

Thanks!  I'll have to remember that for next time!  [quietly puts the
sawzall away] ;)

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:12:29 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Removing the dash

At Wednesday, 25 August 2004, you wrote:

>>I think I know what yer talking bout but not positive. 
>>If those are what I think they are, they're rivets 
>>holding the bottom part of the dash to a steel bracket 
>>running behind the dash underneath the steery column. 
>>This steel bracket is what is held up by the steery
>>column bolts (studs, actually). It remains attached to 
>>the dash, you can't remove it.

I can get pictures of the rear of an '88 CSCB dash tonight in my 
basement. The steel bracket riveted to the plastic dashboard is actually 
a stiffener.

>Thanks!  I'll have to remember that for next time!  
>[quietly puts the sawzall away] ;)

Can't recall for certain now; but it seems to me that a long time 
ago, while working on either my '79 Cutlass Supreme or '79 MC, I 
did attempt to drill out those two rivets and was terribly disappointed 
to find that the dash still didn't come out. If I recall correctly,
the drill bit slipped off one the rivet heads, digging into the 
vinyl of the dash itself  ;o(((  Of course, in those days, only one 
owner outta a hunerd was the least bit innerested in "restoring" 
one of those cars, since they still comprised a large portion of 
the vehicles on the road at the time  ;o(

SteveH



===================================================================
EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:28:15 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Pulley Diameter Question

?The only difference in Olds pulleys are diameter and number of grooves.
Other than that, different part numbers and different subcontractor vendor
numbers and codes. The following are general pulley diameters, which will
vary about +/- 1/8" depending on subcontractor:
AC water pump pulley = 6 1/4"
AC crank pulley = 7 1/4"
non-AC water pump pulley = 7 1/4"
non-AC crank pulley = 6 1/4"
442 race water pump pulley = 6 1/4"
442 race crank pulley = 6 1/4"

I have found these general pulley diameters to be the same from 1964 330s on
up to 1977 403s, including all 350s, 400s, 425s, and 455s.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "jp" <limitedattention@mac.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 5:04 AM
Subject: Pulley Diameter Question


> Does anybody know where I can find a listing of the diameters for the
> various pulleys offered on the 350 & 455 engines in the 69-72 A Body
> cars.
>
> I recently asked Chris Witt and he said that he thought they were in
> the Assembly Manual.
>
> I've looked all over my '72 Assembly Manual as well as the
> Illustrated Parts Book.
>
> Nothing that I can find.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> jp
>
> '72 Cutlass Convertible
> Vermont
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:24:43 -0700
From: Mark Mullins <mark@marineaviation.org>
Subject: Re: Pulley Diameter Question

jp,
My '68 Assembly manual lists pulleys in section 6-1 (page 110, sheet 198.
It lists code number, pn, description, pulley diameter, outside diameter, # 
of grooves and car (a/c or std)
Also has a section on drive belts and drive ratios for th

At 08:04 AM 8/25/2004 -0400, jp wrote:
>Does anybody know where I can find a listing of the diameters for the 
>various pulleys offered on the 350 & 455 engines in the 69-72 A Body cars.
>I recently asked Chris Witt and he said that he thought they were in the 
>Assembly Manual.
>I've looked all over my '72 Assembly Manual as well as the Illustrated 
>Parts Book.
>Nothing that I can find.
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>Thanks in advance,
>
>jp
>
>'72 Cutlass Convertible
>Vermont

Mark Mullins
Tucson, Az

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5001
*********************************
