
oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, October 27 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5074



RE: Engine Masters Challenge
HB Installer
RE: points alternatives
Skirt knock?
CTC Auto Ranch Pricing
Re: points alternatives
RE: 67 442 for sale
Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament
Stripped Muncie Input
Re: HB Installer
Re: Engine Masters Challenge
Re: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing
Re: points alternatives
Re: Stripped Muncie Input
Re: HB Installer
Re: Stripped Muncie Input
79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)
Re: 79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)
Re: Be paranoid!
Re: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing
Re: 79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)
Re: Skirt knock?
Re: Skirt knock?
HB Installer
CTC Auto Ranch Pricing
Re: Skirt knock?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Engine Masters Challenge

http://realoldspower.com

has a lot of info, including dyno sheets, on the EMC
Olds entries.

Dick Miller, Bill Trovato, and Terry Fritsch are all
members there.



=====
John Pajak

http://jspajak.tripod.com


		
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:01:24 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: HB Installer

I hope Fastenal might also have a Torrington needle thrust bearing; that's
be the cat's rear end and make it really smooooooth-operating. So we'll see
tomorrow.
=============
But, you'll still have the friction of the nut/rod threads.
Now, to really make it smooth, take a discarded steering box, salvage the 
recirculating ball worm drive mechanism...
:-)

I always thought a short special hydraulic operated unit would be the mat's 
meow. If one were doing 10 of them a day, then that would really pay off.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:09:17 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: points alternatives

The original Pertronix unit had issues with the magnets as discussed.

The newer version is called LSCC, or lobe sensing counter clockwise.

This version uses a sealed magnet that uses the lobes on the distributor
to trigger it.

MUCH improved design. I have had one in my car for 2 years. Works
flawlessly.

Be sure to feed it a full 12 volts. Do not use the resistor wire.

I went this route due to the OAI set up.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:08:43 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Skirt knock?

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:08:58 -0500
From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
Subject: Skirt knock??

<<  I'll bet the individual who said that had some piston skirt knock in
his engine. >>

That's the first time I've heard that term.
(I'd remember a phrase like "skirt knock" - it sounds naughty)

What would that sound like?
===================
Heh
Probably like

skt skt skt skt skt
oh, baby, yeah, baby, like that... ah, uhhhhh....

Let's see what google search of "skirt knock" turns up !
"Leather Look Basque Top, Leather Look Mini Skirt, knock 'em dead ..."
"Big Legs, Tight Skirt, Knock me offa my feet"
and
"Downloadable scottish-skirt
... long, thick nipples. The; skirt-movie right in front of her, who would 
knock her back onto her ass, land on her; mens-skirt Ozzie" and ... "

Hmmmm.... I know nipples are used in various vacuum and coolant circuits, 
but... I don't see any engine related information here.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:16:40 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing

I can relate to the message as I live very close to CTC and have had a 
similar
experience with a printed circut board for the back of my 66 Olds 98
speedometer.  He wanted $95 over the phone which was unreasonably expensive, 
but
where else do I find that part.
Tim Bender
OCA #036909
=====================
You might try calling *the* Rocket Scientist for such parts.
Any chance of fixing the old one?
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <ransomeliolds@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: points alternatives

Has anyone tried the Crane Electronic Ignition
Conversion Kit XR-i? 

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=5&prt=1973

It even has a rev limiter! Summit prices are about $70

It appears to just bolt in place of the stock points,
without needing to take the distributor out/apart.

I'm thinking about one for the 70 W-30 stick car, in
case I miss a shift, I won't over rev :)

=====
John Pajak

http://jspajak.tripod.com


		
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:30:36 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:36:55 -0400
From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
Subject: RE: 67 442 for sale

Sour grapes. There is at least one of our own list members who occasionally
claims to be selling his car for an outrageous amount (not naming names).
Oddly enough, he still hasn't sold it. There are some people who don't
really want to sell their car unless they can get an outrageous price for
it. If you think the price is too high, all you have to do is not buy it.
John Nasta
================
Yeah, like that ivory 68 98 convert for $3000?!?!? For a '68 Big Car? C'mon!
I have my 68 98 LS still for sale, too, only one inquiry at $1000, better 
off parting it out, there's just no market for them. Not even the lowrider 
crew.

As for a '67 442 for $37K.... much different market for 442's, many buyers. 
Go ahead and try to restore one. Let's start with Memmer's NOS bumpers at 
$2000 the pair. Figure at LEAST $2000 for the engine. Another $1000 easy for 
the trans and diff, and body and paint can just shoot thru the roof if you 
have ANY problems hidden under the paint/ bondo. I was not privy to all the 
details of the '66 442 resto, but pretty sure it came in around $30,000 all 
told. And, that's with the owner crew doing the work [exc. body/paint], no 
professional resto shop. Engine rebuild and L69 setup ran about $5000 I 
believe.

For those who haven't the time or talent to restore a car themselves, but do 
have cash, buying such a car is a very nice option. You can get a newer car 
for that kind of money, but that's a whole 'nother ball game.

Sme things of course you cannot buy, you have to make yourself. Like that 
1970 W30 ElCamino that came out a year or 3 ago. Or Dr. Oldmobile's 1964 "El 
Cutlass". Or, my 1967 4dr Cutlass ==> El Camino.
- -----------------------
Chris Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing MI 48911

RocketScience442@hotmail.com

Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:38:48 -0400
From: "Tom Stoner" <tgstoner@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament

Andy,

I'm afraid that I have to admit deleting the digest that contained your
original posting of the '79 H/O hood ornament questions, but I just read the
replies in digest #5073.  As a former '79 H/O owner I can offer the
following information and possible assistance.  As someone else has already
mentioned, the 1979 Hurst/Olds was indeed based upon the Calais model for
that year.  One of the minor differences between a standard Calais and an
H/O in 1979 was the background color of the hood ornament.  Both used the
same "stand-up crest" design; with a red background color on the Calais and
a black color on the H/O.  I don't know if that same black emblem was used
on anything in later years, or not.  For what the information is worth, the
same color difference for the '79 H/O was true for the rectangular Olds
rocket emblem at the center of the front header panel too.

Now, one of the random 1979 Hurst/Olds spare pieces that I think I still
have here in storage happens to be a NOS hood ornament crest piece.  Not the
whole hood ornament mind you, but just the stand-up piece.  It may not be
perfect, due to "storage wear", but is probably much better than any used
piece might be.  I bought it as a spare at an Olds meet in Lansing one year,
and there wasn't a box for it.  That lead me to believe that it probably
left the factory in some production worker's back pocket in 1979, which all
things considered doesn't particularly bother me.

That's a spring loaded hood ornament design, and I think that the crest
could easily be put onto an original base.  Since I'm on the digest mode and
obviously don't occasionally do more than just a quick scan of Olds list
messages, anyone who might be interested in this crest should probably
contact me directly so I don't overlook your message.

By the way, I also still have a fairly nice but used Dual Gate console trim
panel from my '79 H/O.  As everyone probably already knows, that piece is
unique to the 1979 model.  There is some damage on the bottom side, where
the quadrant illumination lamp socket is supposed to snap in, which is what
made me replace this piece on the car.  I could shoot a digital picture or
two to send anyone interested.  Anyone interested enough to make an offer?
Help me clean out another cabinet in the garage.

Thanks.
TGS

Tom Stoner
Ann Arbor
1998 Catalina 30 MkIII (for sale)
2001 Chris Craft 26 Constellation (You think your Olds uses fuel fast? -
also for sale)
2002 Ford Explorer XLT (possibly my last Ford - what a POS - lease ends
soon)
2004 Newmar Kountry Star 3352 (home away from home)
tgstoner@sbcglobal.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:38:13 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Stripped Muncie Input

Steve,

Did you ever figure out why you stripped these gears?  I just stripped my 
3rd set in 30 years and for the moment, I am guessing fatigue was the cause, 
but I'm looking at other possibilities.  This last gear set was installed in 
1988 and did have a fair amount of abuse.


Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser




>From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: The M-22 DETAILS + Great Supplier
>Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:22:12 -0400
>I always stripped input shafts and cluster gears. Never
>actually broke any, just stripped teeth off them. It got to where
>Performance Center in Torrance, CA almost put aside my very own spare
>parts shelf in the back  ;o|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:52:26 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: HB Installer

At Wednesday, 27 October 2004, you wrote:

>I hope Fastenal might also have a Torrington needle thrust 
>bearing; that's be the cat's rear end and make it really 
>smooooooth-operating. So we'll see tomorrow.
>=============
>But, you'll still have the friction of the nut/rod threads.

They had no bearings at all  ;o(((  For awhile, I thought of using 
an ordinary wheel bearing until I rembered the edges of the inner 
race won't allow use like that. But something just occurred to me 
about the outer race, will hafta have a looksee when I get home..
. Nice thing bout wheel bearings is finding one with 3/4" ID should 
be real easy. I bet the spindle of my BBA is at least 3/4", in fact.
.

>I always thought a short special hydraulic operated unit would 
>be the mat's meow. If one were doing 10 of them a day, then 
>that would really pay off.

Thinking of that made me suddenly wonder what kinda machine Olds 
had that pressed those balancers on 1500 V8 cranks each day.

Chris: in general, have you found balancers to begin slipping over 
the snout straight, or have you always had to press just to get them 
started?

I'm thinking to get mine started straight, I'll heat it up in the 
oven to, say, 150-175 degrees. That wouldn't burn off grease on the 
inside or on the snout and might at least let me get it started straight 
over the snout.

And lest thou protest the heat will destroy the rubber ring.... this's 
a *307* balancer; it hath no rubbereth ringeth  ;o)))))))))))))))

SteveH



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris smetana <grp442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Masters Challenge

- --0-562502227-1098885783=:20373
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Dick Miller did indeed finish the competition this year, after being
> plagued by 2 failures on the dyno in the last 2 years (both BB and SB
> challenges) (dyno sheet @
> http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14949 )


I sure want to know what Dick Miller did to that 403. 531 pounds of 
torque
at 5100 indicates a very big duration cam with a bunch of overlap. 599 
hp at
6500 is sure stressing the main webbing. I really love power figures 
=================================================
Milton et al,
I believe Dick Miller's website lists more info.  One thing I do know is Jim Lapikas of J&S Machine supplied Dick Miller with the block and Halo Girdle, which helps strengthen the bottom end.
 
As a side note, one of the guys in the EMC I know, Dave Himes of Automazing Race Cars in Fishers, IN.  He's a BIG Pontiac guy but choose to build a short stroke chevy for the competition.  I'm curious to see how he did, so I'll have to check out the results.
 
Chris (always in lurk mode) Smetana
grp442@yahoo.com
 
1969 Cutlass S W-31 with a J&S Machine built 355

		
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>&gt; Dick Miller did indeed finish the competition this year, after being<BR>&gt; plagued by 2 failures on the dyno in the last 2 years (both BB and SB<BR>&gt; challenges) (dyno sheet @<BR>&gt; <A href="http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14949" target=_blank><FONT color=#003399>http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14949</FONT></A> )<BR><BR><BR>I sure want to know what Dick Miller did to that 403. 531 pounds of <BR>torque<BR>at 5100 indicates a very big duration cam with a bunch of overlap. 599 <BR>hp at<BR>6500 is sure stressing the main webbing. I really love power figures <BR>=================================================</DIV>
<DIV>Milton et al,</DIV>
<DIV>I believe Dick Miller's website lists more info.&nbsp; One thing I do know is Jim Lapikas of J&amp;S Machine supplied Dick Miller with the block and Halo Girdle, which helps strengthen the bottom end.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As a side note, one of the guys in the EMC I know, Dave Himes of Automazing Race Cars in Fishers, IN.&nbsp; He's a BIG Pontiac guy but choose to build a short stroke chevy for the competition.&nbsp; I'm curious to see how he did, so I'll have to check out the results.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Chris (always in lurk mode) Smetana</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:grp442@yahoo.com">grp442@yahoo.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1969 Cutlass S W-31 with a J&amp;S Machine built 355</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:01:40 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing

At Wednesday, 27 October 2004, you wrote:

>I can relate to the message as I live very close to CTC 
>and have had a similar experience with a printed circut 
>board for the back of my 66 Olds 98 speedometer.  He 
>wanted $95 over the phone which was unreasonably expensive, 
>but where else do I find that part.
>Tim Bender
>OCA #036909
>=====================
>You might try calling *the* Rocket Scientist for such parts.
>Any chance of fixing the old one?

Printed circuit boards?? If the thing's reasonably intact and not 
thoroughly burned up so that the original components are not totally 
obscured, then we Electronical Geniuses are always ready and willing 
fer a Real Challenge  ;o)))))))

Truthfully, presuming such a circuit board simply doesn't work...
AND that it doesn't have a special Delco-only part on it... then 
it probably is repairable. One never knows until consulting with 
said Electronical Geniuses  ;o)

Sometimes, the circuit was even published right in the CSM, with 
or without component values; witness the solid-state voltage regulators 
and some electronic ignition systems.

Bruce Roe, myself, Joe Vitek, are three of said EGs who come immediately 
to mind. I know there's several others here and on the G-body reflector,
too.

SteveH



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:06:16 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: points alternatives

At Wednesday, 27 October 2004, you wrote:

>Has anyone tried the Crane Electronic Ignition
>Conversion Kit XR-i? 
>
>http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=5&prt=1973
>
>It even has a rev limiter! Summit prices are about $70
>
>It appears to just bolt in place of the stock points,
>without needing to take the distributor out/apart.
>
>I'm thinking about one for the 70 W-30 stick car, in
>case I miss a shift, I won't over rev :)

A looonnnggg time back, in the distant early, wondrous days, electronic 
ignition systems were just coming into their own and there were scads 
and scads of add-on electronical Gadgets, Gimcrackies and Goodies 
(GGG) coming onto the market. I was once at Pep Boys, probly around 
'72, and came across an electronic ignition system for any GM that 
replaced the points with a magnetic pickup and slipped a special 
wheel with sharper lobes over the existing cam in the distributor.
It had an external box. Whole thing was, IIRC, $29.99 or therebouts.
Natcherly, I bought one. Put over 200K miles on it in half a dozen 
different cars up into the early '80s. Took maybe 20 minutes to install 
not including resetting the timing. Still have it, I think.

Another neato GGG found at Pep Boys was an electronic digital fuel 
mileage meter with speedometer, odometer, tripometer, clock, level 
of water in the kitchen sink and its pH (ok; maybe not the latter 
two, just seeing if anyone's awake and aware  ;o). It went for something 
like $34.95 IIRC right around 1979. I bought one for my cars and 
another for Dad. We both used them up into the mid '80s. I still 
have his but haven't used it for a long time.

SteveH



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:18:33 -0400
From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Stripped Muncie Input

At Wednesday, 27 October 2004, you wrote:

>Steve,
>
>Did you ever figure out why you stripped these gears? 

Yup.

>I just stripped my 3rd set in 30 years and for the moment, 
>I am guessing fatigue was the cause, but I'm looking at other >possibilities.
This last gear set was installed in 
>1988 and did have a fair amount of abuse.

Heh. Mine always blew during burnouts  ;o((((((((

"Fair amount" of abuse??? Heck: abuse is ALL mine ever saw (except 
when the synchros were so bad the thing wouldn't stay in some gear).
My creed was something like ifn it's got a V8, and it's got a 4-
speed, it's MADE to be used and abused  :o)))))))))))

That's why, in the '70s, we all grew arm/shoulder/leg muscles and 
reduced the number of things under the cars to be unbolted/unhooked/disconnected 
until we could change trannies within an hour  :o|

SteveH



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:40:14 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: HB Installer

At 09:52 AM 10/27/2004, you wrote:
> >But, you'll still have the friction of the nut/rod threads.
>
>They had no bearings at all  ;o(((  For awhile, I thought of using
>an ordinary wheel bearing until I rembered the edges of the inner
>race won't allow use like that.

A little oil on the washers that I put under the nut is all that is 
necessary, unless you are aiming at the title "Master of Overkill". ;)

My balancers just start slipping on; no real trick to it.

>===================================================================

_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:19:52 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stripped Muncie Input

It seems like the parts are getting heavier than they were in 1973.



Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser




>From: SteveH <k0xp@dandy.net>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: Stripped Muncie Input
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:18:33 -0400
>That's why, in the '70s, we all grew arm/shoulder/leg muscles and
>reduced the number of things under the cars to be 
>unbolted/unhooked/disconnected
>until we could change trannies within an hour  :o|
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:13:30 -0400
From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
Subject: 79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)

Well Gang...

I don't know how the rumor that the 1979 H/O hood ornament was unique, and
different from the '80s Calais' got started... I know I've repeated it a few
times, myself, just repeating what I'd been told.  After I finally go to
check though... see for yourself... I can't find any difference between the
buggers.

Here you'll find a nice close-up of the hood ornament on my '79 Hurst/Olds.
I suppose its possible it might have been replaced somewhere through the
years except that it matches all other pics of '79 Hurst ornaments I've
seen... and it appears to perfectly match a couple I had taken shots of at
the H/O nats in Gatlinburg.  For me, that is proof enough that it is the
correct hood ornament for the 1979 H/O.  Here is the pic:
http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/upload/P1010001.JPG

Here you'll find a nice close-up shot of the hood ornament on my '84 Calais
T-top car.  Again, I guess theres a chance its been replaced sometime
through the years... but I would think... that if the H/O ornament HAD been
unique it would not be very likely to have been replaced with one!  I am
going to ASS U ME that this is the correct factory hood ornament for a 1984
Calais.  Opening them both up in photoshop side by side they look perfectly
the same.  The only possible difference I see is that perhaps, as the header
trim is different between the cars, the base of the emblems might be
slightly different, to accomodate the different trim - I don't know and
can't really tell from the pics... unfortuneately I did not think to look at
that at the time... and didn't take any specific pics of the base.  But its
close enough... and for me at least... this is one urban legend the that's
busted... :-) :-)
http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/upload/P1010007.JPG

Later Gang...
Clayton Pierce,
1979hurstolds@earthlink.net

1978 to 1980 Olds Web Site
http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/78-80olds/

1969 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe
1979 Hurst/Oldsmobile W30 (white/gold)
1984 Cutlass Calais Coupe (T-Tops)
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham Coupe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:31:48 -0400
From: <1979hurstolds@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)

Okay I went ebay hunting and found the following:
Please note that I'm not posting links to an active auction, I'm just
posting links to the pics in them!

http://i12.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/8f/75/69_1_b.JPG
Is a standard '78 to '80 Cutlass Supreme hood ornament (slightly worse for
the wear it looks like)  It has obviously got a square base... also evident
on the pic from my H/O below.

http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/b2/94/8b_3.JPG
Is an '80s (supposedly 442) Cutlass hood ornament.  It is quite obvious in
these pics that the two have different bases.  This one has a round base
that is not fully inset as the '79 one is.

So final verdict... the 1979 Hurst/Olds and the 1980 442 DID have a unique
hood ornament... but only in that the base is different!  Otherwise the
ornaments are exactly the same in appearance as the early 80's Calais
ornaments.  From Looking at this last picture I think it would be fairly
easy to modify one to fit with a dremel... but however it is not a bolt in
fit... so perhaps my last post was a bit hasty.

> check though... see for yourself... I can't find any difference between
the
> Here you'll find a nice close-up of the hood ornament on my '79
Hurst/Olds.
> http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/upload/P1010001.JPG
>
> Here you'll find a nice close-up shot of the hood ornament on my '84
Calais
> T-top car.  Again, I guess theres a chance its been replaced sometime
> http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/upload/P1010007.JPG
>
> Later Gang...
> Clayton Pierce,
> 1979hurstolds@earthlink.net
>
> 1978 to 1980 Olds Web Site
> http://www.442spot.com/cpierce/78-80olds/
>
> 1969 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe
> 1979 Hurst/Oldsmobile W30 (white/gold)
> 1984 Cutlass Calais Coupe (T-Tops)
> 1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham Coupe
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:01:12 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Be paranoid!

>>http://tom.pebkac.us/dumbass.jpg
[...]
>that is a dumb ass if i ever seen one

But hey, he _is_ using wheel chocks, so I guess it's all right...  :-)

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:05:54 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing

>Printed circuit boards?? If the thing's reasonably intact and not
>thoroughly burned up so that the original components are not totally
>obscured, then we Electronical Geniuses are always ready and willing
>fer a Real Challenge  ;o)))))))

Oh, heck, yeah; I run jumper wires all the time, and every now and then I 
find one that looks suspiciously factory-installed.

All the PC board does (especially in the case of the flexible ones pinned to 
the back of a plastic gauge cluster housing like the older GM designs) is 
connect one component to another without having to use wires. But if one or 
more traces on the board get damaged, there's usually someplace to attach a 
jumper wire to get around the bad spot(s).

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:31:56 +0000
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 79 H/O vs 80s Calais ornaments Final Look (Was Re: Looking for '79 H/O hood ornament)

>Okay I went ebay hunting and found the following:
>Please note that I'm not posting links to an active auction, I'm just
>posting links to the pics in them!

Duly noted...

>http://i12.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/8f/75/69_1_b.JPG
>Is a standard '78 to '80 Cutlass Supreme hood ornament (slightly worse for
>the wear it looks like)  It has obviously got a square base... also evident
>on the pic from my H/O below.

Right. (I don't think turning it sideways on its mount is a very flattering 
pose for it... :-)

>http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/b2/94/8b_3.JPG
>Is an '80s (supposedly 442) Cutlass hood ornament.

Gee, that looks familiar... Oh, yeah: it's mine.

I want to point out here that I am not claiming that it's a 442 hood 
ornament; I simply don't know. I think my wording is pretty clear:

>>It's correct for a 1982 Olds Cutlass Supreme 2-door,
>>which I bought it for but never installed, and probably
>>fits other Cutlasses or 442s from 1981 through 1986.
>>Use this to either replace an old or missing hood
>>ornament, or replace the blank ornament-delete trim
>>plate on a Cutlass or 442 that has no current hood
>>ornament. Please do your own checking to ensure
>>that it will fit your car; it is not returnable.

I agree with your conclusion:

>So final verdict... the 1979 Hurst/Olds and the 1980 442 DID
>have a unique hood ornament... but only in that the base is
>different!  Otherwise the ornaments are exactly the same in
>appearance as the early 80's Calais ornaments.

That seems likely, with the exception of the details about the background 
color that Tom Stoner has posted regarding H/O vs. Calais models. One thing 
I noticed on mine is that the part number on the underside of the base 
casting does not match what was printed on the box, almost certainly because 
the same base was used for different hood ornaments, and so by extension, 
the same hood ornament could almost certainly be installed on different 
bases, and/or different models of car.

- -- Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:44:09 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock?

Many moons ago, when I was 17 ; my Grandmother gave me her '51 Ford
Crestliner custom 2 door coupe. She was seafoam green and black ( chartreuse
& black). It had the 232cu. flathead V8, and made all of 115 hp. My
grandparents were terrible about changing oil, and when I got the car it had
44,000 miles and sounded like a sewing machine, that needed oiled real bad
when it ran. Which I was told by an ancient Ford Mechanic ( family friend) "
Son he said, this is not a good sound", that sound is coming from your
piston skirts slapping the side of the cylinder walls. And the real deep
knock is even worse! So I piled a ton of money into that over grown
lawnmower engine, and had it running at 150 horse, 200 and sumpin ft.lbs.
torque, just doing some minor little things. This guy was an old time
version of Milton Schick, (a true genius). He liked to say "it's not what
you put in that is so important, as how you prepare every thing". I was 17,
so what did I know. I have never heard that sound since, but then I have
always used Mobile One or Red line oil......., religiously.

Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:08 AM
Subject: Skirt knock?


> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:08:58 -0500
> From: Karl Erik Aune <425power@ameritech.net>
> Subject: Skirt knock??
>
> <<  I'll bet the individual who said that had some piston skirt knock in
> his engine. >>
>
> That's the first time I've heard that term.
> (I'd remember a phrase like "skirt knock" - it sounds naughty)
>
> What would that sound like?
> ===================
> Heh
> Probably like
>
> skt skt skt skt skt
> oh, baby, yeah, baby, like that... ah, uhhhhh....
>
> Let's see what google search of "skirt knock" turns up !
> "Leather Look Basque Top, Leather Look Mini Skirt, knock 'em dead ..."
> "Big Legs, Tight Skirt, Knock me offa my feet"
> and
> "Downloadable scottish-skirt
> ... long, thick nipples. The; skirt-movie right in front of her, who would
> knock her back onto her ass, land on her; mens-skirt Ozzie" and ... "
>
> Hmmmm.... I know nipples are used in various vacuum and coolant circuits,
> but... I don't see any engine related information here.
> -----------------------
> Chris Witt
> 1303 W. Miller Rd.
> Lansing MI 48911
>
> RocketScience442@hotmail.com
>
> Cell 517-449-0432 weekends or short weekday calls or leave message.
> Home 517-882-9747 thru 10-11pm MI time most days
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
> more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:07:19 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock?

> This guy was an old time
> version of Milton Schick, (a true genius). He liked to say "it's not what
> you put in that is so important, as how you prepare every thing".


Rick,

You're embarrassing me again. :-)

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:07:09 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: HB Installer

If you want a slightly used Torrington, I have plenty removed 
from THM400 transmissions.  

I have built a lot of tools when the official one cost hundreds 
(or thousands, can you say wide band O2) of $.  But I don't 
see why try to improvise something like this, when the ideal 
tool at    J C Whit*ey is $28  SL147601B.  Bruce Roe

27 Oct 2004  "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com> writes:
> I hope Fastenal might also have a Torrington needle thrust 
> bearing; that's be the cat's rear end and make it really 
> smooooooth-operating. So we'll see tomorrow.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:23:41 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: CTC Auto Ranch Pricing

27 Oct 2004 "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Printed circuit boards?? If the thing's reasonably intact and 
> > not thoroughly burned up so that the original components 
> >are not  totally obscured, then we Electronical Geniuses are 
> > always ready and willing fer a Real Challenge

> Oh, heck, yeah; I run jumper wires all the time, and every 
> now and then I 
> find one that looks suspiciously factory-installed.
> 
> All the PC board does (especially in the case of the 
> flexible ones pinned to the back of a plastic gauge cluster 
> housing like the older GM designs) is connect one component 
> to another without having to use wires. But if one or more 
> traces on the board get damaged, there's usually someplace to 
> attach a jumper wire to get around the bad spot(s).
> 
> -- Andy

This works well for me too.  In addition look for high 
resistance connections that will throw off your gauges.
A steel nut tightened onto a copper trace is not ideal in 
view of long term corrosion.  Just plain using more 
copper on a main run like ground can get rid of some 
voltage drop.  

Sometimes the twist in lamps are intermittent, partly 
because the plastic holding them is distorted from the 
heat.  I take a couple 2" very flexible wires and solder 
them to the socket.  The other ends solder to the printed 
circuit, and now the bulb works even floating in air.  Don't 
cross the wires twisting it in, or it shorts out.  Bruce Roe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:21:09 -0700
From: "Rick & Roxanne" <aremessenger@icehouse.net>
Subject: Re: Skirt knock?

That's the price of fame Milt! By the way, since you are a NASA engineer,
did you ever know Homer Hickam, another NASA training engineer. We have the
Movie "October Sky"( about Homer), and as I was watching it I thought of
you.If you haven't seen it, and like model rockets, it's a goodun! Take
Care.
Always faithful!

Rick Messenger
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Skirt knock?


> > This guy was an old time
> > version of Milton Schick, (a true genius). He liked to say "it's not
what
> > you put in that is so important, as how you prepare every thing".
>
>
> Rick,
>
> You're embarrassing me again. :-)
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5074
*********************************
