
oldsmobile-digest     Monday, September 27 2004     Volume 01 : Number 5034



Sound Deadening Project
Oldsmobile  VIN # question - 66 not much in there
Re: man seeks xst mans?
71 Cutlass S shell
Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: Oldsmobile  VIN # question - 66 not much in there
1958s New best time 15.74@ 86.23/
balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: 1958s New best time 15.74@ 86.23/
Balancer
Re: Sound Deadening Project
Re: balancer bolt torque
Re: Balancer
Re: balancer bolt torque
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Re: Balancer
Re: Balancer
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races  pics/gregs NW. Tour
Olds beehive valve springs
Re: Olds beehive valve springs
Re: Sound Deadening Project
Re: 71 Cutlass S shell
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust
Re: Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems
Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour
RE: Better deal than GM parts direct
A posi that works!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:50:49 -0400
From: "Paul Tumolo" <ptumolo@comcast.net>
Subject: Sound Deadening Project

Some of you may have seen my post on the loud exhaust I installed. It is
a Torque Tech 2.5" dual system from the manifolds back. It has the long
case DynoMax Super Turbo mufflers.

It is loud enough that I was thinking of taking it off......  

However, I did like the performance it gave, so I looked for another
solution.

Decided to pull the interior out and give the car the Dynamat treatment:
The Extreme foil backed stuff on the front floorpans, and the regular
DynaMat stuff on the rest of the floors and the trunk devider.

Man, the sound reduction in the car is absolutely amazing!!!!!!

The interior is not as hot too.....  

It was well worth the 3 hours and $250 to do it.

If you are redoing your interior, or want some sound reduction, DynaMat
is the way to go.

Paul Tumolo
1970 442 Hardtop
OCA # 31967

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:14:13 -0400
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Oldsmobile  VIN # question - 66 not much in there

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:26:58 -0700
From: Curt Brennan <cabrennan@charter.net>
Subject: Oldsmobile  VIN # question

Gents,
Is there a place on line I can type in my '66 442 VIN number to find out
more about my car.   I've noticed a couple "indicators" that it may have
originaly been a factory 4 speed car, and I would very much like to know.
If you can email me directly, off list, that would help (as I am in the
"digest" email mode here).
Thanks,
Curt
cabrennan@charter.net
===============
Alas, that info is not really embedded in the VIN back then. Not even the 
442 option was.
What is in there?
Basic body style
V8 or I6 [other] engine, but not WHICH V8
Year
Production plant
6-digit sequential number of course.

Now, if you have the exact car's Protecto-Plate, look in the glovebox... 
THEN you have the exact engine, trans, orig. owner's name, etc. Few of us 
are so fortunate as to have the car's original Protecto-Plate.

You are pretty much stuck with reliance on visual cues on your car- does it 
have the Z-bar's mtg tab welded on the frame, are there extenda-seats for 
the rear diff rubber bumpers, etc.

Get yourself an Assembly Manual [see ebay, $25 or so] and go thru the whole 
thing looking for parts like the above, specific to the SMT vehicles. See if 
yours has all of them.

Chris Witt
517-449-0432

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:33:57 -0400
From: "Trade 2000" <travelchile@manquehue.net>
Subject: Re: man seeks xst mans?

How good are those repros? Anybody tried them already?
TIA
Matt

> $399.00 a pair for reproduction.  They are expensive.  Should long outlast
a
> set of headers.
>
> Couldn't find any on a quick eBay search.
>
> Someone on the list might have some... Calling Chris Witt...
>
> Steve K.
> ===============
> I have a few on hand but mostly undivided X's and such or units with a
> broken ear or hole needs threads, the not so fresh ones.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:02:03 EDT
From: Roncutlass@aol.com
Subject: 71 Cutlass S shell

- -------------------------------1096250523
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
Reluctantly giving up on trying to repair my Northeast 71 Cutlass S  shell.  
I have all the sheetmetal except the actual shell.  Anyone  have any leads?  
Thanks, bought this baby new and really didn't want to  give up on her......Ron 
 If possible, please reply to  roncutlass@aol.com





- -------------------------------1096250523
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000=
000=20
size=3D2>Reluctantly giving up on trying to repair my Northeast 71 Cutlass S=
=20
shell.&nbsp; I have all the sheetmetal except the actual shell.&nbsp; Anyone=
=20
have any leads?&nbsp; Thanks, bought this baby new and really didn't want to=
=20
give up on her......Ron&nbsp; If possible, please reply to=20
roncutlass@aol.com<BR></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- -------------------------------1096250523--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:04:21 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

So, it looks like my timing chain needs replacement. No biggie... except
that dang balancer bolt. Never had a car with a balancer bolt torqued to
250 ft-lbs before  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\

After breaking the nub offn my 1/2" torque wrench, I splurged and bought a
3/4"-drive socket and slider bar. But how the HECK can I hold the
crankshaft from turning?? I broked the torque wrench doing the starter-bump
trick; don't really wanna do that agin as I don't wanna take a chance of
the starter or flywheel teeth shearing off. Just swapped the tranny last
weekend and aren't really feeling up to dropping it agin to replace the
flywheel  ;o\

Have the same problem breaking loose a pinion nut on a rear end that's not
in the car now; I gess I may have to put the carrier back in to jam
something into it to butt against the rear end housing  ;o(

Does the balancer bolt HAVE to be that tight?? My Ponchos only needed
something like 165 ft-lbs IIRC and were no real problem to break loose. The
balancers slid right into place albeit perhaps with just a tiny bit of
interference fit. Can't the Olds balancer bore be sanded just a bit to make
them easier to remove??

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:06:19 -0700
From: Kevin & Casey Olund <kcolund@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile  VIN # question - 66 not much in there

> Now, if you have the exact car's Protecto-Plate, look in the glovebox... 
> THEN you have the exact engine, trans, orig. owner's name, etc. Few of us 
> are so fortunate as to have the car's original Protecto-Plate.

If you do, where can you get the codes for them?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:57:51 -0400
From: Cutlass7276@netscape.net
Subject: 1958s New best time 15.74@ 86.23/

Hello
Who cares about my red light today,i made 4400 pds of stock cammed 1958 go 15.74@86.23mph  :)
With the sun we had this weekend,and good times i could not ask for more.
Good luck!
Randy H.
Maple Ridge B.C.
 http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1084780023456_Untitled3.jpg 

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:37:40 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

Steve,


> So, it looks like my timing chain needs replacement. No biggie... except
> that dang balancer bolt. Never had a car with a balancer bolt torqued to
> 250 ft-lbs before  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\


The '65 shop manual shows only 50 fl for the 3/4" fine threaded bolt on both
330s and 425s. The '64 manual shows 100 fl minimum for a 394. 250 is way too
much.


> After breaking the nub offn my 1/2" torque wrench, I splurged and bought a
> 3/4"-drive socket and slider bar. But how the HECK can I hold the
> crankshaft from turning??


It will take 2 people and buying (or borrowing) a flywheel turner. A
flywheel turner is like a huge set of pliers. It has a 90 degree tooth on
each end of the lever arms to grab 2 flywheel teeth about 120 degrees apart
from each other. Your helper will hold the flywheel while you take the
balancer bolt off. Your helper will have a great deal of leverage with the
flywheel turner. You should have no problem.

You could also find a long steel rod that will fit inside one of the balance
holes drilled into the counterweight on the back of the balancer center hub.
Lock the rod against the frame, and remove the balancer bolt against the rod
locked to the frame.


> Have the same problem breaking loose a pinion nut on a rear end that's not
> in the car now; I gess I may have to put the carrier back in to jam
> something into it to butt against the rear end housing  ;o(


Buy (or borrow) a spanner wrench for holding the u-joint yoke while you take
the pinion nut loose.


> The
> balancers slid right into place albeit perhaps with just a tiny bit of
> interference fit. Can't the Olds balancer bore be sanded just a bit to
make
> them easier to remove??


Of course. Most 330 balancers will slide off in my hand, even ones in a
salvage yard. Usually the only reason the balancer is tight is interference
drag from the square key. The balancer doesn't need to be that tight. It's
locked on with the 3/4" crank bolt, anyway. If you do any sanding, just be
sure it's uniform. Check the keyway for burrs on both the crank snout and
the inside of the balancer hub.

The *maximum* amount of force that should be required to install a balancer
on a crank snout should be light tapping with a plastic or rubber mallet.
That's all. Obviously, there should not be any wobble between the crank
snout and the balancer hub. A light coating of oil will prevent drag and
binding.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:42:42 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: 1958s New best time 15.74@ 86.23/

Randy,

I can't get over how much your '58 reminds me of a moonshine tanker. I hope
you have a copy of THUNDER ROAD with Robert Mitchum.

I saw it originally in the old Vogue theater in my hometown when I was 11 or
12 at the 25 cent Saturday matinee.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Cutlass7276@netscape.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:57 PM
Subject: 1958s New best time 15.74@ 86.23/


> Hello
> Who cares about my red light today,i made 4400 pds of stock cammed 1958 go
15.74@86.23mph  :)
> With the sun we had this weekend,and good times i could not ask for more.
> Good luck!
> Randy H.
> Maple Ridge B.C.
>  http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596099/1084780023456_Untitled3.jpg
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
> As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
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>
> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>
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> Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
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>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:29:03 -0500
From: bcroe@juno.com
Subject: Balancer

One of my (handmade) tools is an 18" long piece of 
angle iron, about 1.5".  At one end are 2 @ 5/16" holes
spaced to bolt into the pulley mont on the balancer.  To 
bolt it flush, I ground out a partial circle for the center.  

With this bolted on, the crank can only go so far before 
the angle iron hits the frame.  Then torque away.  

The balancer might be a slide fit to 1/2 mil interference 
fit on the crank.  I had some FluiDampers that were a 
bear to get on (with the right tool), because they were 
1.5 mil interference.  This turned out to be the finishing 
anodised coating inside the hole, which could be 
sanded out of the hole for a proper fit.  Bruce Roe

27 Sep 2004 Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net> writes:
> But how the HECK can I hold the crankshaft from turning??

PS.  I tighten the balancer as tight as I practically can.  
With interference fit, I don't really care if it's a little less 
than 250 ft lb.  That same tool has a couple 3/8" bolts 
sticking out of it.  Hook one into the back of my R4 
A/C compressor, the other against the outside, and 
its a nice lever for tightning the belt.  

J C Wit*ey sells a great tool, which makes balancer 
work a simple wrench turning job.  BR

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Frank Fellman <frank.fellman@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Sound Deadening Project

- --0-1966495799-1096257288=:57387
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hmmm... wonder how much cooler and quieter it'd be with some of
that under the headliner, too...     :o))))
 
                                                      Phantom455
================================================

Paul Tumolo <ptumolo@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>

Decided to pull the interior out and give the car the Dynamat treatment:
The Extreme foil backed stuff on the front floorpans, and the regular
DynaMat stuff on the rest of the floors and the trunk devider.

Man, the sound reduction in the car is absolutely amazing!!!!!!

The interior is not as hot too..... 

It was well worth the 3 hours and $250 to do it.

If you are redoing your interior, or want some sound reduction, DynaMat
is the way to go.

- --0-1966495799-1096257288=:57387
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Hmmm... wonder how much cooler and quieter it'd be with some of</DIV>
<DIV>that under the headliner, too...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :o))))</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Phantom455</DIV>
<DIV>================================================<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Tumolo &lt;ptumolo@comcast.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<P>&lt;snip&gt;</P>
<P>Decided to pull the interior out and give the car the Dynamat treatment:<BR>The Extreme foil backed stuff on the front floorpans, and the regular<BR>DynaMat stuff on the rest of the floors and the trunk devider.<BR><BR>Man, the sound reduction in the car is absolutely amazing!!!!!!<BR><BR>The interior is not as hot too..... <BR><BR>It was well worth the 3 hours and $250 to do it.<BR><BR>If you are redoing your interior, or want some sound reduction, DynaMat<BR>is the way to go.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
- --0-1966495799-1096257288=:57387--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:30:46 -0400
From: "Chris Carson" <fastcarson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque

The 1971 CSM goes out of its way to mention that the balancer is an
interference fit, must be installed with a hub installer, and that the crank
snout cannot be sanded anything more than polishing; lack of an interference
fit will cause unwanted vibrations. I don't have it in front of me, so I
can't say anything about torque requirements; I seem to remember 165,
though.
My favorite method of stopping the engine from turning is to shove a the
handle of a wood hammer into a hole on the flywheel. It'll eventually brace
itself against the engine and stop it the crank from.
Chris
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:37 PM
Subject: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW.
Tour


> Steve,
>
>
> > So, it looks like my timing chain needs replacement. No biggie... except
> > that dang balancer bolt. Never had a car with a balancer bolt torqued to
> > 250 ft-lbs before  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\
>
>
> The '65 shop manual shows only 50 fl for the 3/4" fine threaded bolt on
both
> 330s and 425s. The '64 manual shows 100 fl minimum for a 394. 250 is way
too
> much.
>
>
> > After breaking the nub offn my 1/2" torque wrench, I splurged and bought
a
> > 3/4"-drive socket and slider bar. But how the HECK can I hold the
> > crankshaft from turning??
>
>
> It will take 2 people and buying (or borrowing) a flywheel turner. A
> flywheel turner is like a huge set of pliers. It has a 90 degree tooth on
> each end of the lever arms to grab 2 flywheel teeth about 120 degrees
apart
> from each other. Your helper will hold the flywheel while you take the
> balancer bolt off. Your helper will have a great deal of leverage with the
> flywheel turner. You should have no problem.
>
> You could also find a long steel rod that will fit inside one of the
balance
> holes drilled into the counterweight on the back of the balancer center
hub.
> Lock the rod against the frame, and remove the balancer bolt against the
rod
> locked to the frame.
>
>
> > Have the same problem breaking loose a pinion nut on a rear end that's
not
> > in the car now; I gess I may have to put the carrier back in to jam
> > something into it to butt against the rear end housing  ;o(
>
>
> Buy (or borrow) a spanner wrench for holding the u-joint yoke while you
take
> the pinion nut loose.
>
>
> > The
> > balancers slid right into place albeit perhaps with just a tiny bit of
> > interference fit. Can't the Olds balancer bore be sanded just a bit to
> make
> > them easier to remove??
>
>
> Of course. Most 330 balancers will slide off in my hand, even ones in a
> salvage yard. Usually the only reason the balancer is tight is
interference
> drag from the square key. The balancer doesn't need to be that tight. It's
> locked on with the 3/4" crank bolt, anyway. If you do any sanding, just be
> sure it's uniform. Check the keyway for burrs on both the crank snout and
> the inside of the balancer hub.
>
> The *maximum* amount of force that should be required to install a
balancer
> on a crank snout should be light tapping with a plastic or rubber mallet.
> That's all. Obviously, there should not be any wobble between the crank
> snout and the balancer hub. A light coating of oil will prevent drag and
> binding.
>
> Milton Schick
> 1964 442 Cutlass
> imp@theriver.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:43:28 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: Balancer

At 10:29 PM 9/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>One of my (handmade) tools is an 18" long piece of 
>angle iron, about 1.5".  At one end are 2 @ 5/16" holes
>spaced to bolt into the pulley mont on the balancer.  To 
>bolt it flush, I ground out a partial circle for the center.  

At all of my previous employers, I could always find such handy pieces of
steel or aluminum scrap almost anywhere in the building. This employer is
the first where, from time to time to do my job within a reasonable amount
of time and minimal cost, *I'm* the one donating scrap from my stock ;o\
;o\  ;o\

Thanks, Bruce; I gess I'll just break down and pick up a big piece of angle
iron at Home Despot tomorrow  ;o( But the other end can be drilled to hold
the pinion yoke  :o))))

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:10:52 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque

At 12:30 AM 9/27/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>My favorite method of stopping the engine from turning is to shove 
>a the handle of a wood hammer into a hole on the flywheel. It'll 
>eventually brace itself against the engine and stop it the crank from.

Heh.... I still rember this USAF airman who was working for grandad at his
auto shop in Belton, Missoura next door to Richards-Gebaur air station. The
guy was trying to get the crankshaft bolt outta some large truck engine
with an automatic and jammed grandad's axe handle in a hole in the
flywheel, the one grandad kept by the front door to discourage unwanted
"visitors". The guy had a huge 1" breaker bar he'd borrowed from the air
station's motor pool with a 6 foot length of pipe on the end. He and I were
grunting and groaning, trying to get the damb thang loose, when the axe
handle snapped in half  ===================8-O  We lost control of the pipe
which went flying up and landed on the truck windshield  ;o((((((

He eventually got the bolt loose after an hour with an impact driver. And
it turned out the threads in the crank bore were crossthreaded  ;o(((((((((((

SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:59:17 +0000
From: Steve Harrison <k0xp@dandy.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

At 08:37 PM 9/26/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>Steve,
>
>
>> So, it looks like my timing chain needs replacement. No biggie... except
>> that dang balancer bolt. Never had a car with a balancer bolt torqued to
>> 250 ft-lbs before  ;o\  ;o\  ;o\
>
>
>The '65 shop manual shows only 50 fl for the 3/4" fine threaded bolt on both
>330s and 425s. The '64 manual shows 100 fl minimum for a 394. 250 is way too
>much.

That's odd; my 1988 Olds CSM gives the torque range for the balancer bolt
as 200 to 310 ft-lbs  ;o((((((  This is also true as far back as 1979 where
the same spec is given for the 260, 307, 350 (both gas and dissel) and 403
Olds engines. But the Ch*bby 305/350 engines are speced at only 60 ft-lbs.

I wonder if this spec was increased with the advent of the Olds 350 in
1968? Wonder what the 455 is speced at??

>It will take 2 people and buying (or borrowing) a flywheel turner. 

I've always resisted buying one of those BECAUSE you still need two people
to use it for crank bolts. And I've just never needed one before on my
Ponchos, anyhow.

>You could also find a long steel rod that will fit inside one of the 
>balance holes drilled into the counterweight on the back of the balancer 
>center hub. Lock the rod against the frame, and remove the balancer bolt 
>against the rod locked to the frame.

I'll look again at the flywheel but IIRC when I looked just last weekend,
there weren't any holes near the outer edge that weren't obscured by the
torque converter. But I wasn't expecting to have to do a timing gear set so
soon so I really didn't look real hard  ;o\

>Buy (or borrow) a spanner wrench for holding the u-joint yoke while 
>you take the pinion nut loose.

When I first got this rear end from the Yarde, I found a cupla sheets of
1/8" 6063 (IIRC) aluminum panel and drilled holes in the end for bolts into
the yoke. I laid the far edge of the panels on the driveway and went to
work with the torque wrench. The 19"-long panels wound up being twisted
like pretzels and I pinned the torque wrench at over 150 ft-lbs  ;o((((
And of course, the nut STILL didn't break loose. But I'll pick up some
heavy angle iron this week and fix one end for the balancer and the other
end for the yoke.

ACTUALLY..... ahha, I just rembered a piece I've got that'll do just
fine....  :o))))

>Of course. Most 330 balancers will slide off in my hand, even 
>ones in a salvage yard. Usually the only reason the balancer is 
>tight is interference drag from the square key. The balancer doesn't 
>need to be that tight.

I'd think so. But on the G-body reflector, several guys have commented on
breaking harmonic balancer pullers while trying to get the balancer off an
'80s 307 crank  ;o|

Sometimes, one has to ask questions of someone else, who might not have the
exact answer yer looking fer but something they say might trigger yer own
thoughts and you come up with just what you need  ;o)

Thanks,
SteveH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:20:49 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Balancer

> One of my (handmade) tools is an 18" long piece of 
> angle iron, about 1.5".  At one end are 2 @ 5/16" holes
> spaced to bolt into the pulley mont on the balancer.  To 
> bolt it flush, I ground out a partial circle for the center.  
> With this bolted on, the crank can only go so far before 
> the angle iron hits the frame.  Then torque away.  


Yup, that would also be a great tool.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:24:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Balancer

> I gess I'll just break down and pick up a big piece of angle
> iron at Home Despot tomorrow  ;o( But the other end can be drilled to hold
> the pinion yoke  :o))))


That'll work. Make a specialized tool for accomplishing 2 different tasks.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:43:24 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races  pics/gregs NW. Tour

Steve,

> That's odd; my 1988 Olds CSM gives the torque range for the balancer bolt
> as 200 to 310 ft-lbs  ;o((((((  This is also true as far back as 1979
where
> the same spec is given for the 260, 307, 350 (both gas and dissel) and 403
> Olds engines. But the Ch*bby 305/350 engines are speced at only 60 ft-lbs.
> I wonder if this spec was increased with the advent of the Olds 350 in
> 1968? Wonder what the 455 is speced at??


No, I was just making the observation that 250 was rather excessive, and I
never recollected that torque spec being that high. From the Engine
Builder's Torque & Clearance Handbook from POPULAR HOT RODDING, Olds
big-blocks use 130 fl on the balancer bolt.


> >You could also find a long steel rod that will fit inside one of the
> >balance holes drilled into the counterweight on the back of the balancer
> >center hub. Lock the rod against the frame, and remove the balancer bolt
> >against the rod locked to the frame.
>
> I'll look again at the flywheel but IIRC when I looked just last weekend,
> there weren't any holes near the outer edge that weren't obscured by the
> torque converter.


Ahhh, that's not what I said. I said, "one of the balance holes drilled into
the counterweight on the back of the balancer center hub." Not the flywheel.


> But I'll pick up some
> heavy angle iron this week and fix one end for the balancer and the other
> end for the yoke.


I didn't think of that, but that's a better idea from Bruce. I should have,
because we did that for differential yokes. I forgot about it.


> I'd think so. But on the G-body reflector, several guys have commented on
> breaking harmonic balancer pullers while trying to get the balancer off an
> '80s 307 crank  ;o|


That makes no sense to be that tight. Can you imagine trying to beat that
balancer onto the crank snout? Too much hammering can damage the balancer,
yet alone what it might do to the thrust bearing.

Chris commented about the '71 manual stating the balancer must be an interfe
rence fit, which also seems to be implying tight. I just rechecked both the
'64 and '65 manuals. Nothing is said about a tight interfernce fit for 394s,
330s, 425s, and V6s. Furthermore, on the V6, it specifically states to tap
the balancer from behind with a plastic mallet to start movement for
removal, which I assume means to facilitate hand removal. Interestingly, the
torque specs chart in the '64 manual said 50 for a 330 and 100 for a 394.
That agreed with the 50 for 330 and 425s in the '65 manual for both the
torque spec chart and the text. However, the text in the '64 manual said 100
for a 330. Go figure.

Also, another discrepancy. We've commented in the past about '64-'66? 330s
having a solid balancer crank hub that is *not* a harmonic balancer with an
outer rubber mounted ring. In the text of the '64 manual, specific mention
is made that only 2-barrel low compression 330s have the solid balancer hub
and all other 330s have a true harmonic balancer. Well...my '64 Cutlass that
is sitting in our driveway with her shot engine is an original 290 HP
4-barrel engine. I know she was original and stock when I bought her in '86,
as from the day she came off the assembly line. She only has the solid crank
hub, not a harmonic balancer, as stock. Again, go figure.

Oh, by the way, something else to twist your shorts in a bundle. Guess what
the torque spec is for the harmonic balancer on an Olds V6? '64 is 140-160
fl, and '65 is 160 fl. Makes no sense.

Milton

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:51:53 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Olds beehive valve springs

I've been meaning to chuckle about this item to the List, but had not got
around to it.

How many of you have seen the new Comp Cams adds for their new beehive valve
springs? They're more stable, no oscillations, and will pull higher RPMs. I
never knew that beehive valve springs would work that well. What's
interesting is that beehive valve springs are not new.

The valve springs on all 394 Olds engines are beehives! I guess Olds R&D
were a bit ahead of their time. Too bad Olds didn't keep the beehive valve
springs on the new second generation engines in '64 and '65.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:56:55 -0700
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <imp@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Olds beehive valve springs

http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=-
1373872784

http://www.compcams.com/Information/WhatsNew/Files/26120-Behive-Springs.jpg

http://www.compcams.com/Information/WhatsNew/Files/26120%20Beehive%20Spring2
.pdf

I just checked. The Comp Cams beehive valve springs will fit a second
generation Olds head.

Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
imp@theriver.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 07:18:18 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Sound Deadening Project

> It was well worth the 3 hours and $250 to do it.
>
> If you are redoing your interior, or want some sound reduction, DynaMat
> is the way to go.

Shudda inquired here first... there are alternatives to Dynamat that are 1/2
the price.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:12:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: kenneth treharn <kwt_1950@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 71 Cutlass S shell

Hello Ron  I can do u one better, I have a 71 S, it
was a Florida car. Frame rust-free, doors perfect,
shell in great shape-quarters had small repair on the
top of wheel lips and are fixed, floors almost perect,
only a couple of pin-holes on the pass-side where your
feet would rest. no holes in trunk. Pass. fender needs
small fix at bottom. Running 350/350 original
engine(70,000 miles) interior/ bumpers/grills missing.
This car is an easy fix and would be an easy clone.
Car is located near I-80 & I-76 near Lordstown, Ohio
(big GM plant}  Call if interested at 330 307 3376. 
Later. Ken 
- --- Roncutlass@aol.com wrote:

>  
> Reluctantly giving up on trying to repair my
> Northeast 71 Cutlass S  shell.  
> I have all the sheetmetal except the actual shell. 
> Anyone  have any leads?  
> Thanks, bought this baby new and really didn't want
> to  give up on her......Ron 
>  If possible, please reply to  roncutlass@aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:10:12 -0400
From: "Frederick Nissen" <fsnissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

> The '65 shop manual shows only 50 fl for the 3/4" fine threaded bolt on
both
> 330s and 425s. The '64 manual shows 100 fl minimum for a 394. 250 is way
too
> much.

Milt,

The '69 shop manual shows 160 minimum.  The '78 shows 200 to 310.  Those are
the two I have handy at the moment.

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:44:03 -0400
From: "" <clemke@email.toast.net>
Subject: Effective Way ot Stopping Underbody Rust

Hello

What products do you recommend for stopping underbody rust. I currently have minimal underbody rusting (a couple of places, looks like mostly surface rust) on a 1995 Cutlass convertible, and would like to know what you have found to be an effective treatment.

Any advice you can share would be appreciated.

Kenn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:19:16 -0400
From: "Bill Reilly" <william.reilly@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Seeking input from folks who have had car JUDGING REGISTRATION problems

Chris,

I remember when I had my car judged at a nationals you could leave a SASE
with the host club reps and they would mail the judging sheet back to you a
few weeks later.

Since the car was registered under your friend's name, could he request to
have the judging sheet sent to him and then he would give it to you.

Just a thought.

Bill Reilly
william.reilly@comcast.net

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Witt" <rocketscience442@hotmail.com>


> Coming down to the wire here
> About to notify the unresponsive OCA members
> Apparently they think that if they ignore the problem it will go away.
> Nothing could be further from the truth.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:39:42 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@postoffice.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: balancer bolt torque, formerly Re: Day at the races pics/gregs NW. Tour

At 11:37 PM 9/26/2004, you wrote:

> > Have the same problem breaking loose a pinion nut on a rear end that's not
> > in the car now; I gess I may have to put the carrier back in to jam
> > something into it to butt against the rear end housing  ;o(
>
>
>Buy (or borrow) a spanner wrench for holding the u-joint yoke while you take
>the pinion nut loose.

A big pipe-wrench holding the yoke in place is what we usually use on trucks.


_______________________________________
Bob Barry  MailTo:rbarry@providence.edu
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:42:54 -0700
From: "Schopen, Kenneth" <kenneth.schopen@medtronic.com>
Subject: RE: Better deal than GM parts direct

> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:43:36 -0400
> From: "John Nasta" <email@johnnasta.com>
> Subject: RE: Better deal than GM parts direct
> 
snip

> Of course the customer is always right, right?
> 
> John Nasta

It bothers me to see that so often - it is simply not true. I was taught in high school business class that "The customer is king." You can see the difference here: while the customer can be very, very wrong, he is still treated civilly and respectfully. It IS possible to tell a customer that he is wrong, but it must be done tactfully.

Kenneth
1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible
Phoenix, AZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:51:56 -0500
From: "Dave Wyatt" <wyattolds@hotmail.com>
Subject: A posi that works!

I decided to get off my butt and do some much needed repair to the 4-4-2 
before Mike, my youngest, came home on break from school.  I installed a new 
clutch, freshened up the four speed with new synchros, and rebuilt the posi 
with a kit from Supercars Unlimited.

The kit included one of their 300 pound springs, new clutches, some extra 
shims, and a bottle of GM Posi additive.  Never having been inside a GM rear 
this far, I didn't know what to expect, but I found it was fairly straight 
forward.  The  new clutches went in after a good coating of lubricant was 
applied.  I tried them dry, but couldnt get things to slide, so I pulled 
them out and lubed things up.  Then I could turn one side and get the spider 
gears  to roll back in.  The 300 pound spring popped right in with a few 
blows from the plastic hammer and then I was able to slip the shims back 
under the spider gears before I replaced the pin.  I did not use any of the 
extra clutch shims, as I couldn't get the spider gears back in with one on 
each side.  It did not seem to matter as the posi works well, spinning both 
tires equally on the street and strip.

My original clutches didn't seem all that worn, so I suspect the age, miles 
and heat had taken it's toll on the original spring, which was a 200 pound 
model IIRC.  That was more than likely causing the hit and miss posi action 
more than the clutches, but we'll never know for certain.

The good news is, both tires work together all the time, and that's what I 
was after.

We did go to the strip on the street radials and Mike got it to run a best 
of 9.51 @ 80 mph in the 1/8 mile.  There was more there to be gained as he 
pefected the launch, but we ran out of buy backs to go anymore rounds.  We 
are still fighting wheel spin, but are getting it down to a minimum.

Last year we had a type C 12 bolt under it with 4.11's and slicks which led 
to the demise of the clutch.  I now have the original 3.42 type O under it 
and we are staying with the street tires.  Once we get the wheel spin under 
control to the point it spins the same all the time, the car will be 
competitive.



Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
67 Vista Cruiser

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #5034
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