To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #667


oldsmobile-digest            Friday, 9 May 1997         Volume 01 : Number 667

Re: Electrical problems
Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.
Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut
OCA Dustoff - Cincinnati
Finding  a Q-Jet
Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut
Re:Electrical Question
All kinds of responses and a dumb balancer question
Re:  Ideal Q-Jet
69 Delta 455
Re: Engine Hoist
79 Olds 442 for sale
Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.
Re: OCA Dustoff - Cincinnati
Re: A/C question
RE: A/C question/found a Ram Air Hood
Air conditioning condensation?
Re: G-body interior chrome
RE:Wanted: 66 Cutlass rear bumper
RE: Air conditioning condensation?
RE:Wanted: 66 Cutlass rear bumper
Finding  a Q-Jet
Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.
Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut
RE:Engine Hoist
Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
Maryland Olds Club Mtg - 5/13
Saved From Demolition Derby
Alternator belt problem
Re: A/C question
Information on a 61 F-85
Re: Abandoned Tows, was Re: Rockit ran again
Re: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
Re: Saved From Demolition Derby
Re: Alternator belt problem
Re:  Ideal Q-Jet
Re: 1964 V.C. Hood Letters - A Challenge!
Re: 1964 V.C. Hood Letters - A Challenge!
Exhausting Possibilities
Mailing list
Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.
RE: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
Re: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
Re: Car apprasials - auto insurance

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:00:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical problems

Paul; My wire diagram said your wired right. I'd say replace the starter
solenoid.
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:03:41 -0300
Subject: Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.

Dan; Do you have an adjustable APT valve? ( the piston that controls the
primary metering rods)
Scott

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:07:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut

The reason that vise grips work is because they crush the nut and break the
threads free. Try taping the nut with a hammer all around or wear you can,
This with change the structure of the metal and loosen the threads. Good
luck!
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:27:48 -0300
Subject: OCA Dustoff - Cincinnati

Just wondering if anyone here is going? There aren't many shows close
like this one:-[. Cinn. is only a couple hours from Louisville and I
don't know if it'll be worth it(never been to an OLDS' show)? I'd hate
to ride up there and there only be 80's & 90's cars or a bunch of
Toro's(No offense I like Toro's I
just don't have one) and 2 or 3 Cutlass'.

Pat McDermott
69 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:27:37 -0300
Subject: Finding  a Q-Jet

I ordered a preformer 4Bll intake for my 350, like I mentioned here last
week. Then I started calling places to find a carb. I can go the used
route, there are plenty at the yards in town, then have it rebuilt.
Or I can buy new. Well the same place that sold me the
Intake(SuperShops) will sell me what he called an after market Q-Jet
carb. for 250.00. The local NAPA's price is 140.00. Are these different
carbs? Also other than gaskets what else do I need to pull this off? New
fuel line ect...?

Thanks
Pat McDermott
69 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:37:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut

Vice grips on a tubing line nut = instant destruction.  Fine if you want
to replace the nut - but be carefull, the vise pressure turns the nut
into an oblong rather than a circle and if this happens to be turning
into an aluminum carb inlet good luck sealing your inlet.  Be patient a
tubing (or flare nut wrench) is all you should use.  File the nut points
if they are not sharp and sides flat and try putting some electrical
tape around the nut to make the wrench tighter.  Be sure the other nut
is held by a wrench also - sometimes a quick snap with a plastic tipped
hammer on the wrench will break it loose.  We all use vice grips as last
resort sometimes and this usually results in more work.

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 04:57:32 -0300
Subject: Re:Electrical Question

Schaack Family had all accessories left on even with the ignition key in
OFF position.

The ignition switch (in our Olds anyway) has four possible positions.
Here is a list of them from fully counterclockwise to clockwise:

ACC   - Accessories are on but the ignition circuits get no juice
OFF   - Nothing except the headlights work
RUN   - Everything except the starter works
CRANK - This position temporarily enables the starter too

I'm pretty sure Your electrical system is not right. Try the following
to check if
the ACC position is working as it should:
Start the engine
Rev the engine (a little bit) and turn the ignition key rapidly (don't
force it)
into ACC position. If the things are right, the engine should stop.

There is a possibility that somebody wanted the things to be this way.
It would be cool
to listen to the radio without accesories on, wouldn't it ?

Seek for a jumper wire in the fuse box. If You find one that does not
look like a family
member remove it (gently so that You can put it back) and see what
happens.

Hope this helps !

- --
Esko & Anneli Ilola

Mail:  Flintstensstigen 7B5     Tel: +358 2040 3439
       01610 VANDA FINLAND           +358 40 5575 116

Email: esko.ilola@tele.fi         \\\___
                              0\\\  o  ;/\\
Oldsmobile Ninety Eight       \\        \/ \
1964 4D HT                    //////\ //\   \
Holiday Sports Sedan                // \\   \

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 07:49:07 -0300
Subject: All kinds of responses and a dumb balancer question

Hope that nobody noticed the AGE of our Olds. Sorry about the 1664-model
=o)

*----------------------------------------------------------------

Jaakko Mustakallio (try to pronounce that one) was looking after  -65
Starfires

These are rare ones. Especially here in Finland. In general the sixties
Oldsmobiles
are not so usual here. For example my Niny is the Only one here. I think
that this vechile
is quite usual at USA. Right ?

*----------------------------------------------------------------

Digest ª643 Jpeg Image........

I quess this is THE price of otherwice nice and useful list !

*----------------------------------------------------------------

Greg was unable to interrupt the overwhelming digests until 14 of them
was gone......

> I have removed him from the list and hopefully the problem will have
> stopped now. Apologies for the inconvenience. Why these things always
> happen overnight is one of the mysteries of modern times.

The first thing I was thinking when I opened my mail was something like:
" No, NOT again. I just finished reading the bunch of old digests..... "

Actually it was a relief to notice that ALL these messages were just
duplicates.

*----------------------------------------------------------------

Is it a "nasty" job to replace a wobbling harmonic balancer ?

I think our Niny has got that one. At least it seems to be wobbling
when the engine is idling and a not-so-healthy noice can be heard
when the engine revs up.

What kind of a balancer is suitable for my engine (a 394) and where
would be the
best place to ask for it ?


- --
Esko & Anneli Ilola

Mail:  Flintstensstigen 7B5     Tel: +358 2040 3439
       01610 VANDA FINLAND           +358 40 5575 116

Email: esko.ilola@tele.fi         \\\___
                              0\\\  o  ;/\\
Oldsmobile Ninety Eight       \\        \/ \
1964 4D HT                    //////\ //\   \
Holiday Sports Sedan                // \\   \

------------------------------

From: Thomas Martin <marttj@pcmail1.css.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:13:28 -0300
Subject: Re:  Ideal Q-Jet

On the carb info, for the record, my 1976 Olds Factory Service manual
says to go to 3 turns out from gently seated.  I have never had one be
far from that on any year Q-Jet that I have worked on.

I know a lot of people I have run across seem to think that the screws
at the bottom are the carb mixture adjustments.  They are the IDLE
mixture adjust, as the previous post said, change the primary jets to
change part throttle mixture, and the secondary rods to change full
throttle.

After a few years of scrounging carb in junkyards, I have seen dozens of
combinations by GM on many cars.  The 301/305 that had the Q-jet had
typically 51-55 rods.  Even my 301 Turbo met that, but had external
vacuum to the power piston.  Just remember, do not mix 4M carb parts
with M4 carb parts.  They made changes in length and other things.  I
think the jets are ok, but the rest is not.  I think the change from 4M
to M4 was 73-74? (Anyone know the changeover period on those?)

The Q-jet is still the most responsive carb made, maybe not the most
powerful, but the triple venturi design makes the carb very sensative to
throttle, and a strong accelerator pump circuit make it the best carb
for street driving.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme 307

------------------------------

From: Thomas Martin <marttj@pcmail1.css.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:16:08 -0300
Subject: 69 Delta 455

I have a friend at work who has a 69 Delta 88 4 Dr 455.  His grandma
bought it new, sold it to his mom, then to him, and now it just sits
rusting.  He thinks it has a blown head gasket now.  What sort of
performance value would this engine be?  What heads should be on it?  He
thinks it is a 4 BBL, but not sure.  It always ran for him.

I may be able to get the car cheap and want to make sure it is worth it,
it has sat for 5 years already.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme 307 "Y"

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:37:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Hoist

On Thu, 8 May 1997 15:00:38 -0300 "Chris R. Smetana"
<Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com> writes:
>Hi all,
>I am in the market for an engine hoist.  Unfortunately I don't have
>unlimited garage space and I don't want a fully assembled engine hoist
>taking up room and collecting dust.  I would like one that can be
>easily
>disassembled or folds up into a corner.  Does anyone have any
>recommendations of where I should look or who to call?  I checked a
>recent
>Summit catalog and saw their fold up hoist, but I'm curious if anyone
>has
>any info on a Blubird model or similar one that comes apart.  I
>thought I
>had info on one of these in a magazine but either can't find it or it
>was a
>model that folded up.
>Thanks in advance for any advice, recommendations, info, insight, etc,
>etc,.....
>Approx 105 days until "The Event"
>
>
>Chris Smetana
>Terre Haute, IN
>chris_r._smetana@dadc.com
>or
>csmetana@disc.sony.com
>
I bought an engine hoist at a place called, "Tools and More" in the Twin
Cities. It has a 3 ton ram and the legs detach and stow in
pocketsdesigned for them. It takes up about 3' of width on floor space
and about 2' of depth. The lifting arm also folds down to conserve space.
The store also offers an upgrade option to an 8 ton ram for $40.00 The
unit with out the upgrade cost me $219.00 plus tax.  Might be worth a
trip to the Minneapolis/ St. Paul area. If more interested, drop me a
line.

Katana72@ Juno.com or Katana72@ aol.com

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:37:24 -0300
Subject: 79 Olds 442 for sale

I was doing a service call the other day and was dicussing the cost of a
51 Chev. After we were done with the chev, the owner then informed me
that his son has a 79 442 for sale. Neither of us knew how many miles
were on the car. I was informed that it is an Arizona car, black and
gold, and his son is asking $3700.00 for the vehicle. If ANYBODY is
interested, drop me a line and I will get back to you with a ph. ª and
name

Katana72@ juno.com
or

Katana72 @ aol.com

------------------------------

From: DJV442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:10:26 -0300
Subject: Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.

i don't believe my carb has that but i am not a real pro concerning carbs.if
you could tell me location/where to look,i'll
try....thanks...DJV442@AOL.COM(DAN)

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:15:00 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Dustoff - Cincinnati

At 03:27 AM 5/9/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Just wondering if anyone here is going? There aren't many shows close
>like this one:-[. Cinn. is only a couple hours from Louisville and I
>don't know if it'll be worth it(never been to an OLDS' show)? I'd hate
>to ride up there and there only be 80's & 90's cars or a bunch of
>Toro's(No offense I like Toro's I
>just don't have one) and 2 or 3 Cutlass'.
>
>Pat McDermott
>69 Cutlass 'S'

Pat,

I've been to the Cincinnati show twice in the past three years.  I'd say
it's worth going.  There'll definitely be a few older cars, but the show is
not heavily attended (50-60 cars total I would say), so don't expect lots
to do.  I went last year, and the best of show was a '57 Starfire
convertible from Newark, Ohio that was literally resurrected from the dead.
 The owner had the restoration fully documented with lots of pictures, and
it was very impressive to see the extent of what she faced when she started.

About the Toros, come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a Toro of
any year at this show the two times I went.

I won't be able to attend this year, unfortunately, but perhaps next year.

If you go, give us a report.



************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Mullen, R. Scott" <r_mullen@merck.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:20:00 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C question

John Oder wrote:
>I have a problem with the A/C on my 70 SX, it work fine the problem is
>when you move the control to vent, heat or defrost the compressor cluch
>will not release until I turn off the switch.
John,
This is the correct operation.  My '70 442 (before I removed the A/C)
did the same thing.  It is written in the '70 shop manual (I think in
the A/C section) that this is normal.  I would speculate that either the
disengagement of the compressor clutch on a running engine was
impractical to engineer, or that once the A/C had been run, there was
some need to keep the compressor running.  This trait was one of the
reasons that I removed the A/C from the car (that and the 125 lb. weight
savings!)

Scott Mullen
'70 442

------------------------------

From: Etzel Bobby <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:37:13 -0300
Subject: RE: A/C question/found a Ram Air Hood

This is the correct way the AC should work. The relay on the fender is =
the "Hold In Relay". The following is from the service manual:

"When the compressor clutch is energized by positioning the control in =
either NORMAL or MAX., the compressor will continue to operate regardless =
of the control setting until the ignition switch is turned off."

My system works the same way. I have had to stop just to turn the A/C =
off. A switch can be wired into the wire going to the compressor to turn =
it off from inside the car if you wanted to. I dont know why they did it =
that way.


Bobby

70 442 Escape Back To The.....Past
__________________________________________________________________________=
_____
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Thu, May 8, 1997 11:53 PM
Subject: A/C question/found a Ram Air Hood
To: Oldsmobile Mailing List

Hi all,

I have a problem with the A/C on my 70 SX, it work fine the problem is
when you move the control to vent, heat or defrost the compressor cluch
will not release until I turn off the switch.  Any one have any Ideas
what might be causing this, also there is a relay mounted on the
passenger fender that appears to have something to do with the
compressor cluch, could someone tell me what this relay is used for.

A friend found a good ram air hood for me, it in pretty good shape
except on the very front just under the curve where it has some damage.
Other than that it is in good shape, it was on a 71 Cutlass S with a 70
front end standard dash with a tic-tock-tac which my friend Tom is going
to take, amazing what you will find out on some farms in the trees.

Later,

John Oder
70 Cutlass SX W-32
70 Cuda 383 Conv.


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Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:40:17 -0300
From: John Oder <jaoder@navix.net>
Subject: A/C question/found a Ram Air Hood
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------------------------------

From: Jeff Dick <JEFFREY.A.DICK@cpmx.saic.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:54:00 -0300
Subject: Air conditioning condensation?

Still looking for 442 type air cleaner housing for 86 cutlass

Looking for helpful advice on my newest problem.  I am getting water on the
inside passenger side of my car (carpet very wet).  Just like a heating core
release; however, that was replaced last year.   At first I thought I only
got water when it rained and that I had a leak.  But then noticed it when it
wasn't raining.  The common link was the defroster was on.   Also does it
when the air conditioning is on, but now when the heater is.

So how would condensation from the compressor get into the passenger
compartment????


 My first thought was rain draining in, but then I realized it didnt

------------------------------

From: kennelson5@juno.com (Ken D Nelson)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:55:32 -0300
Subject: Re: G-body interior chrome

I have found something you and maybe others will be very
interested in.  It is a metalized  mylar  tape. This stuff is like the
mylar they use in the balloons. It is chrome, 2" wide, and is sticky
back. We use it where I work to cover seams in sound foam  and I have
been planning on redoing all the interior chrome on my '75 H/O when I get
to the interior. I just contacted the company which we buy it from and
they can sell single rolls on a limited basis, they are:

Polymer Technologies
420 Corporate Blvd.
Newark, DE. 19702
Phone (302) 738-9001
Fax (302) 738-9085

It is Metalized Tape  ªPPT-200MP
it comes in a 72 yard roll 2" wide about .005 thick sticky back
a single roll is $32.95

Good luck

Ken Nelson
Kennelson5@juno.com



On Mon, 5 May 1997 11:52:47 -0300 MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net> writes:
>I was cleaning up my 85 442 the other day, and while I was in the back
>seat, to my horror, I saw the chrome coming off both rear side panel
>cloth insert trim.  I took one piece out, and took the trim off.  It
>had
>to be gently pried off, due to it being heat-stamped/glued to the
>velour
>insert.  The trim is still in excellent shape, except for what it
>looks
>like the mylar/chrome is shedding off.  My question of need is, how
>can
>I get these pieces re-chromed?  The trim is of a flexible-type
>plastic,
>and I don't think standard plastic re-chroming would work.  I figure
>I'm
>not the only one that has run into this, since the interior doesn't
>see
>the sun very often, and hasn't in over 10 years.  The rest of the
>interior remains mint.  ANY IDEAS??????
>
>Mike Rothe
>
>

------------------------------

From: scott or sharon <jerdan@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:04:49 -0300
Subject: RE:Wanted: 66 Cutlass rear bumper

>
> I have a friend who needs a good rear bumper for his 66 Cutlass drop top.
If anyone has one, they can e-mail me direct and I'll pass the info along.
Thanks.
>
> Jim Rabideau
> rabid@cybrzn.com
> 70 W30
Jim,
I don't know about quality, but the Bumper Boyz out of LA will have them for
$280 W/exch and $335 wo/exch.  Their phone ª is 1 800 815-9009.

Scott Jerdan
70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Etzel Bobby <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:05:34 -0300
Subject: RE: Air conditioning condensation?

Check the drain hose that is under the AC unit in the engine compartment. =
If this hose gets clogged up, water (condensation) will build up and run =
inside the car.

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back To The.....Past
__________________________________________________________________________=
_____
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Fri, May 9, 1997 8:52 AM
Subject: Air conditioning condensation?
To: 'olds mailing list'


Still looking for 442 type air cleaner housing for 86 cutlass

Looking for helpful advice on my newest problem.  I am getting water on =
the
inside passenger side of my car (carpet very wet).  Just like a heating =
core
release; however, that was replaced last year.   At first I thought I =
only
got water when it rained and that I had a leak.  But then noticed it when =
it
wasn't raining.  The common link was the defroster was on.   Also does it =

when the air conditioning is on, but now when the heater is.

So how would condensation from the compressor get into the passenger
compartment????


 My first thought was rain draining in, but then I realized it didnt


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Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 09:54:00 -0300
From: Jeff Dick <JEFFREY.A.DICK@cpmx.saic.com>
Subject: Air conditioning condensation?
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------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:27:10 -0300
Subject: RE:Wanted: 66 Cutlass rear bumper

On Fri, 9 May 1997, scott or sharon wrote:
> I don't know about quality, but the Bumper Boyz out of LA will have them for
> $280 W/exch and $335 wo/exch.  Their phone ª is 1 800 815-9009.

I've mentioned this previously, but I've had a not-so-good experience with
these guys. They provided the bumper for the rear of my '68 and the plating
was not done very well at all -- copper showing through in spots, and after a
few weeks some of the chrome started flaking off. If I could have returned it
easily, I never would have accepted it. But as it was, they were 3000 miles
away and it just wasn't worthwhile.

I'd say go anywhere else unless it's a last resort.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:51:04 -0300
Subject: Finding  a Q-Jet

OL>I ordered a preformer 4Bll intake for my 350, like I mentioned here last
OL>week. Then I started calling places to find a carb. I can go the used
OL>route, there are plenty at the yards in town, then have it rebuilt.
OL>Or I can buy new. Well the same place that sold me the
OL>Intake(SuperShops) will sell me what he called an after market Q-Jet
OL>carb. for 250.00. The local NAPA's price is 140.00. Are these different
OL>carbs? Also other than gaskets what else do I need to pull this off? New
OL>fuel line ect...?
OL>
OL>Thanks
OL>Pat McDermott
OL>69 Cutlass 'S'

Ask them what the intended application is for the carbs or if there just
a universal carb. Warranty? I think the performer intake is designed for
both spread and square bore carbs, if so an Edelbrock performer series
carb would fit. Try calling Edelbrocks tech line to see what they
suggest 310-782-2900 or try their web site. Or you could find a Q-jet
from around the same year as you car and rebuild it yourself. It's not
hard to do. Just be sure the kit has a good exploded view of the carb.
If you go looking for a Q-jet make sure every thing moves freely. And a
couple cans of carb cleaner you'll be all set to go.  Around here Q-jets
go for $15-20 rebuild $10-15  carb cleaner $2.50 So you'd be looking at
about $30-40.

Good Luck!

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:52:00 -0300
Subject: Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.

OL>i don't believe my carb has that but i am not a real pro concerning
carbs.if OL>you could tell me location/where to look,i'll
OL>try....thanks...DJV442@AOL.COM(DAN)

Has what?

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:59:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter Flare Nut

OL> A friend of
OL>mine changed his Ranger's filter a few years ago.  Of course it's only a
matter of OL>intelligence to ~check~
OL>for leaks, but I guess he was severely lacking that day.

Ford - intelligence Is it possible for these words to actually go
together?

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:09:16 -0300
Subject: RE:Engine Hoist

My hoist collapsed is 30" x 22" it's rated for 4000lb. got it at Witlock
auto supply (the store thats always going to give you the wrong part no
matter what).It has a telescoping arm. Paid $200 for it. Excaliber of
Greenville South Carolina is the manufacture.

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: "Paul L. Fikaris" <fikaris@en.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:17:12 -0300
Subject: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!

A co-worker of mine drives a 1995 Cutlass Supreme and was unfortunately hit
on the driver's side along the rear of the door and onto the rear quarter.
Nothing extremely major, one of those 15mph things that wound up costing
(the other j*rk's insurance company) around $3300. She took it to a local
Olds dealership here in Cleveland where she purchased it. The dealer (which
has its own bodyshop) assured her in no uncertain terms that they'd return
the 7,000-mile car to new or better, no problem. She went to them before
receiving an estimate from the J*rk's insurance company. The Olds dealer's
estimate was around $200 less then the insurance cut her a check for.
Welp, she goes to pick up the car (at night, in the rain - mistake) and
they didn't pull the car inside to show her the work. First the manager
sez, that the bill had been revised and now equals the amount of the
insurance check (to the penny!) Next, (after beefy cop-boyfriend gives
manager the whatfor) she drives car home (2-3 miles) and discovers the turn
signals don't work, neither do the PDLs. The interior molding around the
rear window shows a 2" gap, and the bozos got grease all over the gray
leather seats. Of course, when she returned the car, the manager asks if
these problems existed BEFORE she got hit (typical car
salesman-d*cknose-to-young-woman-customer thing to say) She said no, it has
only 7,000 miles on it, why would these things go bad? So manager promises
to "look into it" and call back today.

My question/point here: Does anyone knoe how she can get in touch with an
Olds Dealer District Office or something of that nature. Seems I remember a
neighbor really kicked up a storm over a poor paint job and finally got
results when she took it to a higher level.

I'd appreciate any help or advise. Why do dealers continue to screw
themselves out of YEARS of business by passing off shoddy work and then
playing dumb? It is unbelievable that providing services as promised is a
dying practice here in the 90s. You don't need an MBA to figure out that
you''ll make $$ and keep customers if you do what your going to say, why
are there so many cranial/anal inverts who run businesses that can't figure
it out. It sad to know that this is an OLDS dealer as well.

Thanks
(only rented the soapbox for an hour, so I'm done)

P.S. for you NE Ohioans, aviod EARL OLDSMOBILE (11300 Brookpark Rd.
216-433-7100) like you would a Dennis Rodman Daycare Center


Paul Fikaris
fikaris@en.com
'69 Delta 88 Conv 455

------------------------------

From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:51:40 -0300
Subject: Maryland Olds Club Mtg - 5/13

The next meeting of the Oldsmobile Centennial Club will be on:
Tuesday May 13, 1997 starting at 7PM.

The meeting will be held at :
ERNIE SWANSON OLDSMOBILE
410 N. CRAIN HIGHWAY, GLEN BURNIE, MD 21061-3009
Phone: (410) 768-8800
Fax: (410) 768-1948

All we ask is that you NOT park in front of the dealership as they will be
open. Please park to the right of the showroom, down in front of the
service bays, there is plenty of room.  We have a meeting room in the back
and to the left in the showroom building.  Someone will be in the showroom
to show you where the meeting is. We shouldn't run past 8:30PM.

If you know of anyone else who might be interested, and not on the
newsgroup, please pass the word along and or bring them with ya.  There are
25+ current members in the club and 1 event has been scheduled ( the cruise
@ the Big M Drive-In in September), another on the drawing board for this
summer, (date to be finalized that night) and even a picnic is in the
works.  There is a wide variety of Oldsmobiles represented, add yours to
the list.  We will be discussing the upcoming summer show, other local
events, club logo design , name the newsletter contest, Cruise Nite events
planning and whatever else comes up.

There is still the opportunity to be a founding father in a car club, as
anyone who joins before June 1 will be able to sign the bylaws.  Anyone who
joins this year will be considered a Charter Member.

Anyone interested in joining, or know of someone who might be interested,
drop me some e-mail.  I have directions to the meeting.  If you plan on
coming, please e-mail me so we have a head count for refreshments.  There
will be a deli tray for anyone who misses dinner at their house.


Thanks for the bandwidth.

 ---
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42 ( IT'S FINISHED BEING PAINTED! )
|/|\|  1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | |  Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---   Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
(H) brad442@erols.com
http://www.erols.com/brad442 (Frames coming this weekend - I hope!)

------------------------------

From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:42:02 -0300
Subject: Saved From Demolition Derby

Hi Gang --

I usually write only about tech items and engine building tips and to chastise
the occasional Chevy basher.....but now,  according to my spouse,  I have
done the ultimate "dumb guy " move.

My Cousin knew that I am totallly into Oldsmobiles and he told me of a car
that he knew of.  It was a '65 Jetstar 88.  His Father-in-law had inhereted
it from his mother.  He told me it was a 2-door,  so I was excited to see
it.  We went over and took a look,  It was a 4-door and had a rusted frame
by the back wheel control arm.  I hmmed and hawwed and offered him a
hundred bucks.  He wanted two hundred and he kept the battery.  It has
73,000 actual miles,  a 330 2bbl that runs PERFECT and a decent interior
and drive train.  The body is of little use to me because my 4-speed car is
a 2-door,  as is my Fathers Jetstar 88 is a 2-door also.  BTW --  Dad
bought it NEW in '65!  (That is the car that I grew up with and got me into
Oldsies!)

Anyway...back on the subjeect....The guy refused my offer because his son
wanted to use the car in a local demo derby at the end of the month.  This
got me right where it hurts.  I just couldn't stand to see that car smashed
in a derby!  I really don't need anything for my cars,  but Jetstars are
few and far, and I figure that a donor car for the two we have is better
than a derby smash any day.  I gave the man the 200 bucks and drove the car
home.  Now I have a extra car and a pissed wife!

This is a wase of bandwidth I know...,  but I figure if I show my wife a
few of your posts,  she might have a better understanding for the love of
these cars and the difficulty locating parts.  Especially since this one
"fell into my hands"

Take care...

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS
65 Jetstar 88 Donor Car

------------------------------

From: mplowe@pepco.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:08:54 -0300
Subject: Alternator belt problem

Thanks to all who responded to my mystery belt breakage on my newly
purchased '68 442 Convertible.  I think that I determined that the
alternator and power steering pumps are in the correct position, and that
the pulleys are aligned correctly.

I think it was interesting that the belts I purchased from the local
discount auto store were not as wide as they should be (I never would have
thought to measure if it was not brought to my attention by the list), but
since I had already purchased new belts I decided to put them on and start
the engine.  After a minute of watching I think I figured out the problem:
the threads on the alternator housing are stripped.  The adjustment bolt
appears to tighten down ok, but in operation it loosens just enough to let
the alternator slip, the (not wide enough) belt loosens and twists and
starts to destroy itself.  I tested this by putting a wrench on, and sure
enough after it is "tight" you can continue to turn it endlessly.

I took the alternator off and noted the number and ordered a new one.  As I
was about to upgrade my mechanic rating from a 3 to a 3.01 I was shocked to
find I got the wrong alternator (no upgrade).  My parts guy says if it was
rebuilt they might use any housing so you can't rely on the Delco number.
By looking at a few I think I now have the right one, but I have a new
question:

     Does anyone know what the correct alternator is for a 1968 442
convertible that was originally a 4 speed, 400,  air car?  What should the
amperage be?

To the guy that wanted to know if I wanted to sell the clutch and linkage:
no, I think it's kind of cool, gives the illusion I might convert it back
someday (did I mention it also has a nitrous bottle in the trunk)

Mike Lowe
68 442 convertible
72 442 hardtop

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:41:22 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C question

>I think I read something about this somewhere a long time ago,(always
>say you READ it somewhere, it sounds smarter than if you say you saw it
>on TV....)  in a land far away it seems, that up until 1971, once the
>defroster/AC is turned on, and the compressor clutch engages, it stays
>engaged until the lever is placed in "OFF".

As another data point from the same era: our late '72 LeMans has a similar
setup, with an extra slide lever on the HVAC panel labeled "VENT -- NORM".
VENT switched the compressor off; NORM switched it on. The lever was
spring loaded so that whenever you moved the main function lever (to A/C,
VENT, HEAT or whatever), the VENT/NORM lever would always snap over to
NORM and turn the compressor on. You'd have to manually switch it off
each time, a real pain. I suppose the theory was that most of the time,
breathing dehumidified air as processed by the compressor was more comfortable
than the alternative, regardless of gas mileage penalty or wear and tear. I
soon got used to holding the VENT/NORM lever off with one finger while making
adjustments to the main function lever with another finger.

Another little factoid which may have been true for only the '72 model year
was that a timer engaged the A/C compressor for seven seconds during engine
shutdown, in order to add a load to the engine which would help minimize
problems with running-on ("Dieseling").

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Neal28CA@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:32:08 -0300
Subject: Information on a 61 F-85

Hey all you F-85 owners,
I'm thinking of buying a 1961 F-85 and I have a few questions.  The stock
brakes seem not so great.  Has anyone tried to fit larger drums on the front?
 The springs are also really soft.  Are there any easy swaps for these?
 Finally there is the trans.  It's a 3 speed auto.  Any way to get rid of the
delay between shifts?

I'd appreciate any information,
Thanks,
Neal

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:29:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Abandoned Tows, was Re: Rockit ran again

> OL>This is how I got my 75 H/O. It was left abandoned behind a garage and
the > OL>cops had it towed and the owners never came after it. The 72 Cutlass
Supreme > OL>setting down at the junkyard now was the same way, abandoned and
the owner > OL>never claimed it. In fact we get in some real nice cars that
for usually > OL>some very fixable reason (tranny gone, blown radiator, etc. )
are not > OL>claimed by their owners. > > How does one find out about these
cars? Are they availible to the > general public?


I don't know about anywhere else, but here in Missoula all the
abandonded cars that are'nt claimed by their owners get auctioned off by
the Sheriff Dept. about every three months.  Sale is strictly as is, cash
only.  They always put an ad in the paper the week before the sale,
listing the years, makes, models, and VINs of all the cars that are going
to be there.  I've bought 2 cars at these things (three if you count my
Olds...well, the junkyard actually bought it there, and I bought it from
them two days later...anyway...)  I paid $160 for one, and $260 for the
other (I paid $350 for my Olds, but the yard paid $75 at the auction!!)
Most of these cars are in really rough shape, and have some sort of
problem (usually why they were abandoned in the first place) but I've seen
some drive away with no problem at all.  If you're looking for a parts
car, this would be an exellent place to look.  If you're looking for
something to drive, thats another story.  Since you can't make anything
more than a visual inspection, it's a total gamble with what you get.
Just make your best guess, fear the worst, and don't bid too high!

Missoula Auto Salvage actually outbids most people on the cars, so many of
them end up there.  Anyway, talk to your local law enforcement and see if
they have a similar program.  The Civil Process Dept. at the Sheriff
office takes care of the paperwork here.  Oh, and the city Health Dept.
also has a hand in it, since they will remove junk vehicles off your
property for free, and I think they go to the auction.

Anyway, good luck!

Scott
1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@Prodigy.Net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:32:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!

Paul L. Fikaris wrote:
>
> > My question/point here: Does anyone knoe how she can get in touch with an
> Olds Dealer District Office or something of that nature. Seems I remember a
> neighbor really kicked up a storm over a poor paint job and finally got
> results when she took it to a higher level.
>
> I'd appreciate any help or advise. Why do dealers continue to screw
> themselves out of YEARS of business by passing off shoddy work and then
> playing dumb?
> Thanks
> (only rented the soapbox for an hour, so I'm done)
>
> P.S. for you NE Ohioans, aviod EARL OLDSMOBILE (11300 Brookpark Rd.
> 216-433-7100) like you would a Dennis Rodman Daycare Center
>
> Paul Fikaris
> fikaris@en.com
> '69 Delta 88 Conv 455


Paul, In the owner's manual/warranty booklet there is a toll-free number
to call for Lansing and Consumer Relations.  This number (while off-hand
I don't know what it is, I don't have access to MY manuals right now),
netted my friend a free rental car on Oldsmobile while his SCX was being
repaired, because the jerks treated him the same way.  First, I would
try to contact the dealership OWNER!  That usually nets fair results.
Then I would call the toll-free number if not satisfied.  Remember,
Oldsmobile is a company looking to make a profit like any other
company.  If they can get away with it, they will.  It's just that if
the customer perceives they are getting the shaft, then the dealership
and Oldsmobile will look bad trying to make every penny they can.  She
bought the car from Oldsmobile in good faith, paid a lot of money for
the car, and tried to extend trust to the dealership in that they would
fix her car like it was supposed to be fixed.  Sorry to say, there are a
lot of shady car dealerships.

My 2 cents
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:39:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Saved From Demolition Derby

At 09:42 PM 5/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>My Cousin knew that I am totallly into Oldsmobiles and he told me of a car
>that he knew of.  It was a '65 Jetstar 88.  His Father-in-law had inhereted
>it from his mother.  He told me it was a 2-door,  so I was excited to see
>it.  We went over and took a look,  It was a 4-door and had a rusted frame
[snip]
>than a derby smash any day.  I gave the man the 200 bucks and drove the car
>home.  Now I have a extra car and a pissed wife!
>
>This is a wase of bandwidth I know...,  but I figure if I show my wife a
>few of your posts,  she might have a better understanding for the love of
>these cars and the difficulty locating parts.  Especially since this one
>"fell into my hands"

Well, you have my whole-hearted support. I get the same reaction when I
bring home "strays", but c'mon, $200 for a whole car? Ask your neighbor how
much they want for a brake job on her Honda, or what kind of monthly
payments the guy down the street is making on that "RAV4" he bought his kid...

Sometimes spouses just need to put things into perspective (after all, you
could easily spend that much money on a night out on the town; and just
think, when you're working on this car, your wife will know *exactly* where
you are! ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:51:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator belt problem

At 11:08 AM 5/9/97 -0300, you wrote:

>     Does anyone know what the correct alternator is for a 1968 442
>convertible that was originally a 4 speed, 400,  air car?  What should the
>amperage be?
>
>To the guy that wanted to know if I wanted to sell the clutch and linkage:
>no, I think it's kind of cool, gives the illusion I might convert it back
>someday (did I mention it also has a nitrous bottle in the trunk)
>
>Mike Lowe
>68 442 convertible
>72 442 hardtop
>
Mike
        The rating for A/C cars is 55 Amps. I think there was a H/D cooling
option or some thing that would bump that to 62 Amps.

Jim Chermack


------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:57:26 -0300
Subject: Re:  Ideal Q-Jet

At 08:13 AM 5/9/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On the carb info, for the record, my 1976 Olds Factory Service manual
>says to go to 3 turns out from gently seated.  I have never had one be
>far from that on any year Q-Jet that I have worked on.
>
>Thomas Martin
>85 Cutlass Supreme 307
>

Thomas

        I agree with your 76 carb specs. You should check out the older
ones. The service manuals did call for 4 turns on a small block and 6 on a
big block. I would guess that the 76 would have a leaner setting at idle for
the loads of smog stuff in the mid 70's.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: Jim Hoekendijk <jim.hoekendijk@pi.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:16:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 1964 V.C. Hood Letters - A Challenge!

Everett,

GREAT! You have the hood letters.
What took you so long? :)
Are you sure all '64 olds used the same hood letters? that could make my
quest a lot more simple!
Let me know what NOS letters you have, maybe I then can put together a
complete set with the one's Scott found.

Jim Hoekendijk, 1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista Cruiser
jim.hoekendijk@pi.net

------------------------------

From: Jim Hoekendijk <jim.hoekendijk@pi.net>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:16:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 1964 V.C. Hood Letters - A Challenge!

Scott (or is it Jo-Anne Hillier?),

So who are you? You sign with Scott, but the "from:" says Jo-Anne Hillier!

I've just sent Vic a message, see if he wants to make a deal for the
incomplete set of NOS hood letters. Thanks!

You wrote:
> I mailed you before on tires, what size do
>you run front and back?

You must be mistaken with some other Jim...

Jim Hoekendijk, 1964 Cutlass Vista Cruiser
jim.hoekendijk@pi.net

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:22:40 -0300
Subject: Exhausting Possibilities

It appears that 442 exhausts are somewhere between a science
and black magic.

  After spending a week thinking about my 442's impending
exhaust upgrade, I've come to the conclusing that this is
going to turn into a hack job.

  My original theory was to upgrade to a system that would
reduce backpressure.  Thus a 2.5" mandrel bent system w/
low backpressure mufflers sounded like just the ticket.

  So far, the only company I've found w/ mandrel bent
pipes it Torque Tech, and their system is meant for
headers, thus I'd have to fabricate the first couple
of feet of pipe from the manifold to their pipes.
Thus the first couple of bends wouldnt be mandrel
bends.  So much for that theory.

  Theory number two:  Buy 2.5" "normal" head
pipes and low restriction mufflers.  2.25"
tail pipes.

  Obviously you cant buy this out of a NAPA catalog.
King and Queen Mufflers out of Plumstead Pa, mentioned
earlier sounds like a possibility, however, I'd need
to supply them w/ dimensions for the mufflers I choose
and I' suspect that once I got the pipes to Chicago
they wouldnt fit just right, and I'd end up with
either a> cutting torch or b> lots of adapters.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'd rather have
a place close by to go to if there is a problem.
Then theres that issue w/ the trumpets being
only 2".

  Theory number three:  Go the the local Midas
and have them custom bend the pipes.

  No way I'd take my 442 there after seeing the
"custom" job a friend got for his old pickup.

  Theory number four:  Get a custom 2.5" head
pipe, toss the sears mufflers in favor if lo
backpressure mufflers, then just re-use the 2"
tail pipes which are still in fair condition.

  The theory here is that once it makes it past
the muffler, gains are limited anyway, so why
not just reuse the 2" tail pipes?  Bonus is that I
get to keep the trumpets.

  Drawbacks, I may end up w/ lots of adapters.

  This being the best theory so far, I went to
the local NAPA store.  Their Walker catalog
says the standard 1970 442 gets 2.25" head
pipes, a 4.25 x 9.75 oval 25" long muffler with
2.24" inlet and 2 7/8 (??!!) offset outlet,
and 2" tail pipes.

  In the Dynomax catalog, their listings dont have
either Ultra Flow or Super Turbo mufflers that meet
those specs exactly.  Looks like the best fit
would be a 2.5 in and out muffler.  Problem is
I dont know if there is enough room for adapters
between the tail pipe and the muffler (before the
pipe bends to go up over the axle).

  So, I'm still thinking this over.  The only
conclusion I've come to so far is that you could
make a killing in this market if you designed
your own 2.5" bolt up system.

  Also, I guess I need to start making friends at a local
muffler shop... :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Steven LaCrosse <lacrosse@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 03:09:46 -0300
Subject: Mailing list

Dear Sir, Please remove me from your mailing list. Thank You.

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:31:07 -0300
Subject: Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.

- ----------
> From: DJV442@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING/75 350/4 BBL.
> Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 6:10 AM
>
> i don't believe my carb has that but i am not a real pro concerning
carbs.if
> you could tell me location/where to look,i'll
> try....thanks...DJV442@AOL.COM(DAN)

The APT is the piston that controls the primary metering rods. On the later
models it has a rod extending out and rides on an adjustment screw. This
limits the depth or heigth the rods ride in the primary jets. most
rebuilders take this out to clean the carb and expect specs. to replace it
properly, fat chance! Most I have seen are put in approx. 5 turns from
starting the threads. Or flush with the top of the casting. The best way is
to remove the small plug from above the piston before you put your carb
together. Tap the hole for a screw in type of plug. This way you can adjust
it when the car is running. You can even adjust it for fuel milage, The
lower the rods the leaner, I f you want to race lift the rods.The point is
you can adjust it to get your hesitation out. Gm came out with millions of
carbs and aplications, when switching them around to different engines we
have the problem of matching them to the mods we have made.On carbs that
don't have the adjustment, the piston usually sticks all the time. I have
even had new ones do it. Take a small thin screw driver and insert it
through the primary vent tube and push gently down on the metering rod arm.
The arm with the metering rods on it should push down and bounch back on
it's own.( spring loaded) If this is your case remove the piston and clean
out the bore and piston and replace it. Hope this helps.
Scott Kozler
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: Etzel Bobby <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:43:28 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!

I would have the dealer repair the lights under the warranty and maybe =
the molding to. Talk to the body shop manager to see if they will clean =
the seats. If she is nice they will do more then for her. If they still =
will not correct the items, ask the dealer manager for the phone number =
of the district manager and his name. Ask the dealer how he spells his =
name and the body shop manager spells his. Go to the bathroom befor =
leaving for about 10 min. Make sure they see you befor leaving. If they =
dont do anything then then ask to use the phone.

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back To The....Past

__________________________________________________________________________=
_____
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca on Fri, May 9, 1997 10:52 AM
Subject: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
To: Reply to Olds Page


A co-worker of mine drives a 1995 Cutlass Supreme and was unfortunately =
hit
on the driver's side along the rear of the door and onto the rear =
quarter.
Nothing extremely major, one of those 15mph things that wound up costing
(the other j*rk's insurance company) around $3300. She took it to a local
Olds dealership here in Cleveland where she purchased it. The dealer =
(which
has its own bodyshop) assured her in no uncertain terms that they'd =
return
the 7,000-mile car to new or better, no problem. She went to them before
receiving an estimate from the J*rk's insurance company. The Olds =
dealer's
estimate was around $200 less then the insurance cut her a check for.
Welp, she goes to pick up the car (at night, in the rain - mistake) and
they didn't pull the car inside to show her the work. First the manager
sez, that the bill had been revised and now equals the amount of the
insurance check (to the penny!) Next, (after beefy cop-boyfriend gives
manager the whatfor) she drives car home (2-3 miles) and discovers the =
turn
signals don't work, neither do the PDLs. The interior molding around the
rear window shows a 2" gap, and the bozos got grease all over the gray
leather seats. Of course, when she returned the car, the manager asks if
these problems existed BEFORE she got hit (typical car
salesman-d*cknose-to-young-woman-customer thing to say) She said no, it =
has
only 7,000 miles on it, why would these things go bad? So manager =
promises
to "look into it" and call back today.

My question/point here: Does anyone knoe how she can get in touch with an
Olds Dealer District Office or something of that nature. Seems I remember =
a
neighbor really kicked up a storm over a poor paint job and finally got
results when she took it to a higher level.

I'd appreciate any help or advise. Why do dealers continue to screw
themselves out of YEARS of business by passing off shoddy work and then
playing dumb? It is unbelievable that providing services as promised is a
dying practice here in the 90s. You don't need an MBA to figure out that
you''ll make $$ and keep customers if you do what your going to say, why
are there so many cranial/anal inverts who run businesses that can't =
figure
it out. It sad to know that this is an OLDS dealer as well.

Thanks
(only rented the soapbox for an hour, so I'm done)

P.S. for you NE Ohioans, aviod EARL OLDSMOBILE (11300 Brookpark Rd.
216-433-7100) like you would a Dennis Rodman Daycare Center


Paul Fikaris
fikaris@en.com
'69 Delta 88 Conv 455


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Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:17:12 -0300
From: "Paul L. Fikaris" <fikaris@en.com>
Subject: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!
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------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:30:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Dealer Problems - Help!

This is an interesting story. I imagine Heidi Magyar of Olds will be
interested if she sees this too (maybe you should c.c. a copy of your note
to her at oldsheidi@aol.com). The reason I find it interesting is that the
"Olds Today" newspaper that the company sends to us OCA members is really
targeted at Olds dealers, so you get to see what the Olds division is
trying to do at that level to improve the behavior and image of their
dealers. It seems from the paper that they really are trying hard to get
their dealers to move away from the traditional image and more into a
Saturn/Lexus/Infiniti mold. The paper is always full of tips and
coaching-type material aimed at getting dealers to shape up in dealing
with their customers.  Sounds as though Earl Oldsmobile maybe hasn't
gotten the message.

You can see the problem facing the company from this story. They really
cannot do much about a dealer's behavior (short of revoking their
franchise) because dealers are independent businesses, and as was said
earlier, they are in it to make a buck, however shortsighted that may be
at times. But Olds gets a black eye because of a dealer's poor track
record. It really wouldn't hurt to try to get hold of the owner of the
place -- most of them are a little more willing to help in such cases
than staff people, in my experience -- but failing any action at that
level, you might try the Regional Zone Office listed in your owner's
manual. I haven't checked, but there might also be a toll-free number at
www.oldsmobile.com too. I think the slogan on the masthead of the
newspaper, "The Customer Caring Car Company", might ring a little hollow
if they do little or nothing to help in this situation, assuming the
facts presented are in fact accurate.

If you get to the point of writing letters, you might want to c.c.
anything you send to Darwin Clark, General Manager of Oldmobile, and
William E. Powell, General Sales and Service Manager. Good luck.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "C. Terrence Fletke" <fletke@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:20:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Car apprasials - auto insurance

Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
> Easton,Jeffrey wrote:
> >
> > I'm on vacation this week and have a lot of time on my hands (see
> > previous post) so I thought I'd get my 442 appraised, since that seems
> > to be the first step in getting antique auto insurance.
> >
>         <snip>
>
> >  I assume that since
> > they wrote it up at $12k, I can get it insured for that amount.  Since I
> > paid nowhere near that for the car, can I still insure it for less?  Does
> > it make the premiums go down significantly?
> >
> > -Jeff
> > jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
> >
> > 1970  442  4-Speed
>
> Jeff,
>
> Usually the underwriters will accept this apprasisal & insure it too.
> If something happens, they appraise it themselves & you get what you
> get. I suggest that you keep good records of any repairs or upgrades
> including pictures of the car all over.
>
> As to insurance, I would insure it for the real value for which you
> think that it could be replaced.  Paying for more insurance won't do
> anything but increase your premiums.
>
> There are several good companies such as Condon & Skelly (< 2500
> miles/yr & no regular use), Hagerty (I use that one because of no
> mileage or strict use restrictions), JC Taylor, American Collectors
> (<2500 miles/yr), Blueprint, Classic Collectors, plus a couple I must
> have missed.  All are priced similarly & except for Blueprint (haven't
> heard of the company before) are reliable.  Check them out.
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
 Bill,

 I found your information very useful as I am in the market for insuance
on my 56 Holliday.However, I was not able to find a phone number or an
address for your preference Hagerty. If you can help with a contact, I
would appreciate it.
Regards,

 Terry Fletke

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª667
********************************
