To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #633


oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 26 April 1997      Volume 01 : Number 633

Parts wanted
Re: Question
Re: Mondello's 493
No more VINs please
Re: 8-track Tip
Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!
Re: No more VINs please
Re: Parts wanted
One more take on Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!
Re: '67 88 window gasket
Re: Re[2]: "Collectable Automobile" Special Ed - Indy Pace Cars
Re: No more VINs please
Re: Reply to comment
Re: Rodchester Qjet Float bowl
Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.
Old maps
Re: Old maps
Re: Reply to comment
Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!
VIN Cost
Water Pump Gaskets - was Reply to comment
Re: WS-30 455?
Re: Reply to comment
Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!
[Fwd: Olds Today Article] (fwd)
64 and 65 F-85 parts
Re:
DOHC Hemi 455 Replica
Re: Water Pump Gaskets - was Reply to comment
Clarification on No More VINs
Re: DOHC Hemi 455 Replica
Re: Open Air Filter Element Question
307 KABLOOM???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M. Taylor" <chef@citynet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:51:31 -0300
Subject: Parts wanted

Year:1969
Make:Oldsmobile
Model:cutlass
Style:350

Description:Looking for sun visors, light blue, both sides

                        also: Right Front Brake Drum

Thank you...
Life is like a box of chocolates...........

------------------------------

From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:08:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Question

DaWolf77@aol.com wrote:
>
> will any one respond to help me
> i want to be involved with the list but noone talks to me
> or responds to my cries for help

You are subscribed, right?  You can send mail to the list without
subscribing, but you won't receive any until you subscribe.

Hope this helps.

- --

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 OCA ª028044
 adcockjk@erols.com

 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
 75K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
 Also viewable through http://www.442.com

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:22:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello's 493

At 10:13 AM 4/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>
>OL>        I've built and ran one of these before. They are very potent
>OL>engines.
>OL>Jim Chermack
>
>What did it run? How was the car set up?
>
>Daren
>
>O.C.A. ª23571
>daren@qconline.com
>
>
>
Daren

        The setup of this car was a 68 Coupe with a 4.33:1 rear, TH400 w/
2800 stall converter with all heavy duty parts and a shift kit, 275/60-15
Hoosiers, skinnies on the front. Some engine specific parts: Dale Smith cam
solid lifter (.600 lift, 332 duration @ .005 lift.) roller rockers, oil
restrictors, Toro oil pan and high volume Meling oil pump and pickup. stock
distributor with points set up to trigger a MSD 6A. 1050 cfm Holley
Dominator carb on a Torker intake with an adapter for the carb. 2.07 intake
valves, 1.71 exhaust, three angle valve job with lots of head work. C heads
were used. 2" Hooker race headers (require removal of inner fenders). Car
would run 10.83 @ 127 mph. Max RPM 6200. This engine idled at 1400 RPM. It
was built as a race engine but did see street action a few times when non
believers were abundant. Ask the guy in the Paxton supercharged 5.0 if he'll
race it again. It did move quite well. There wasn't much interior in the car
except for the dash and twoo buckets and some aluminum. This car did
eventually get tubbed out for some 16 inch race slicks.

Jim

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:29:40 -0300
Subject: No more VINs please

All,

Your response to my offer to run VINs has been almost overwhelming, but I
didn't mind doing it, I was glad to help,  until today.

Today the bill came....

My boss casually walked over to my desk with bill in hand and asked if I
knew what all these Oldsmobile VINs were for.  They weren't cars we had in
stock, and they were run after business hours.

So I explained the situation to him.  He was very understanding and said
he didn't mind if I used the service.  Now he wanted to understand who's
paying the bill (they turned out to be $12.50 a pop, something I didn't
know!  I thought it was a flat monthly fee.  Oops!)  So I replied, "Guess
I am".

For this reason, I won't be able to run VINs any longer, as it is too
expensive for me to upkeep, and I'm not sure that the information they
provide is really worth $12.50 anyway.  If you've sent me a VIN and
haven't heard from me yet, you won't be hearing from me at all.

Sorry, folks, I tried.

Wanna hear the best part?  This bill only covers a few of the VINs that
were run.  He'll love it when next month's bill comes...

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:28:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 8-track Tip

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
>Turned out there
> is a nylon adjusting screw inside the thing on the capstan flywheel that
> acts as a brake of sorts presumably to fine-adjust tape speed. I tightened
> it up and to my shocked surprise it was back to normal again when I
> hooked it up. I was proud of myself... :)
>
> I was also able to discover that the case on this thing (not the exterior
> plastic shell but the metal case itself) is a good source of rattles.
>  I love it when I can do little things like
> that and solve a problem that was driving me nuts.
>
> Greg Beaulieu

Greg,

Congratulations.  You've beaten those pesky engineers at their own game
once again.

Hey, you!  Don't cower there in the corner.  Everyone knows it is YOU
that I am talking about.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:29:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!

Dustin Cross wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
> > > > All of you are hopeless.  Have I told the story of how I came to have
a > > > > barn full of 20 old cars? > > > > There really are 20.  They all
work to at least some extent.  I really > > only keep them around so that I
have an excuse for not mowing the lawn. > > > > OK now I'm confused you have
20 cars in your barn in which you have a > lawn?

Yeah.  The lawn keeps me from having to sweep up after working on the
cars.  I also know where every extra nut & bolt is when I am done.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:46:04 -0300
Subject: Re: No more VINs please

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
> All,
>
> So I explained the situation to him.  He was very understanding and said
> he didn't mind if I used the service.  Now he wanted to understand who's
> paying the bill (they turned out to be $12.50 a pop, something I didn't
> know!  I thought it was a flat monthly fee.  Oops!)  So I replied, "Guess
> I am".
>
> For this reason, I won't be able to run VINs any longer, as it is too
> expensive for me to upkeep, and I'm not sure that the information they
> provide is really worth $12.50 anyway.  If you've sent me a VIN and
> haven't heard from me yet, you won't be hearing from me at all.
>
> Sorry, folks, I tried.
>
> Wanna hear the best part?  This bill only covers a few of the VINs that
> were run.  He'll love it when next month's bill comes...
>
> Paul Hartlieb
> plh@leba.net

Paul,

That is a surprise!  That kind of thing has never happened to me, but it
could & probably will at some time.  Of course you are obligated to pick
up the charges.  Your company didn't authorize such work.

On the other hand, while no one is actually obligated to pick up any
part of your tab, it would be very nice to consider doing so if you
received this service.  No one knew about the cost, nor expected one.
It only seems reasonable that with a cost now a fact, the tab be divided
up among at least the participants.

It would be great if people would contact Paul to try to pay their fair
share if possible.  Paul has not asked for this, but he deserves the
consideration of us all.  If you think $12.50 is a shock for you, think
what multiples of this figure represent.

I am saying this and I am not a participant.  I would say this if I had
been a participant.  It is only a misunderstanding, but there are
obligations here.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:56:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts wanted

On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, M. Taylor wrote:
> Year:1969
> Make:Oldsmobile
> Model:cutlass
> Style:350
> Description:Looking for sun visors, light blue, both sides
>                         also: Right Front Brake Drum

You may already know this, but the Oldsmobile U.S.A. catalog that arrived
here today has these items. The sunvisors are available in light blue at
$72.50 a pair (part ªA10.203F) and front brake drums (part ªA5.809A) are
$72.05 each. Their phone ª is 800-872-2013.

I've never ordered anything from these guys but their catalog is among
the most comprehensive I've seen.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:59:04 -0300
Subject: One more take on Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!

Igor,
 You should have a good reason for swapping carburetors. This gives the
operation a greater sense of purpose, justifies spending money on something
more appropriate, and can enhance the research/planning in carburetor
selection. I have a 2bbl Rochester on my 425. In my estimation this setup is
akin to breathing through a bloody nose. In addition I want something on
which the fuel/air ratio is more adjustable. As a short-term solution I
rebuilt the carb, and paid my brother $50 for a 650cfm Holley with vacuum
secondary he was replacing. When I find a 4bbl manifold I will rebuild the
Holley. I will end up buying the Edelbrock Performer for $200 but in the
meantime I am looking for a used/junk one.
   One note about rebuilding old carbs. In my case (2GC) the rebuild kit will
be somewhat generic (i.e. 2 different versions of the same gasket) in order
to address variations in the same model carb over the years. In my case the
new needle and seat did not fit the carb so I put the old one back in. This
may be the case with kits for other carb makes/models. As for pollution
control systems, well those are a big reason why I bought a 1965 car; dealer
only computer chips at >$100 each (parents car.. two chips blew same time).
  One last note. As far as rebuild kits. It is a very good idea to have a
source of an exploded view of your carburetor other than what is supplied in
the kit. That way any confusing parts should be resolveable by comparing the
two (hopefully different) diagrams.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88      (Soylent Ocean Mist)
Chicago, IL

Duct tape; tends to restrict air flow- do not use for carburetor
applications.

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:01:02 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 88 window gasket

On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Nathan Fonder wrote:

> Thanks for your help.  I am really enjoying the Olds.  In response to your
> question regarding the 455, I called my insurance company.  After giving
> them the serial number, the isurance man informed me that the original
> engine is indeed a 455 Super Rocket.  Perhaps they are wrong.  I am about to
> visit the gentleman who sold me the Delta.  I'll ask him if that is correct.
> Before buying the car, he told me the engine was the orginal.  Once again,
> thank you for your comments.

I am amazed at how stupid insurance companies can be sometimes.  There is
nothing in the VIN of a '67 Olds that will tell you what size engine it
has in it.  They didn't start that until '72 I think.  No '67 Olds was
available with a 455, they were all 425s.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:05:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "Collectable Automobile" Special Ed - Indy Pace Cars

On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 JPADA@Orbital.COM wrote:

>           Ooh!  Ooh!  I'll bet the Aurora will be the first Indy pace
>           car which is _not_ an open car!!!!

What about the '84 Fiero pace car.  I don't think that was an open car
either?  Just saw a picture of one in a Pace Car book at Waldens the other
day.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:04:36 -0300
Subject: Re: No more VINs please

Hello all,

I've got a program that lets me decode any VIN's between 1981 and 1992.
Any make.  For free.  I will be perfectly happy to decode your VIN's for
you, and mail back the results.  I cannot, however, look up your car's
past history or any other such thing.  If you just want your VIN ª decoded
(any makes and models, 1981 throuh 1992) write to me.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
The ***OFFICIAL*** Editor of the Olds FAQ
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

Get a copy of the Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com
http://www.en.com/users/thall

Or FTP a "zipped" version from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.


On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Paul Hartlieb wrote:

> All,
>
> Your response to my offer to run VINs has been almost overwhelming, but I
> didn't mind doing it, I was glad to help,  until today.
>
> Today the bill came....
>
> My boss casually walked over to my desk with bill in hand and asked if I
> knew what all these Oldsmobile VINs were for.  They weren't cars we had in
> stock, and they were run after business hours.
>
> So I explained the situation to him.  He was very understanding and said
> he didn't mind if I used the service.  Now he wanted to understand who's
> paying the bill (they turned out to be $12.50 a pop, something I didn't
> know!  I thought it was a flat monthly fee.  Oops!)  So I replied, "Guess
> I am".
>
> For this reason, I won't be able to run VINs any longer, as it is too
> expensive for me to upkeep, and I'm not sure that the information they
> provide is really worth $12.50 anyway.  If you've sent me a VIN and
> haven't heard from me yet, you won't be hearing from me at all.
>
> Sorry, folks, I tried.
>
> Wanna hear the best part?  This bill only covers a few of the VINs that
> were run.  He'll love it when next month's bill comes...
>
> Paul Hartlieb
> plh@leba.net
> '67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
> '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:14:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to comment

   Nah,  just joshin -- i had a 67 442 in high school, but now im fiddlin
with a 67 F85 that ive just installed a 455 in.

       Just in case anybody else reads this --  what's the deal with the
FelPro water pump gaskets???  When i went to put water in my 455 it started
leaking right by the upper part of the pump -- Ok i figure i put it on wrong
and just in case i bought another gasket -- it turns out that the gaskets are
cut just abbout a 16th of an inch off right around one of the u-turns that
lead into the cylinder block -- has anybody else run into this little quirk
with water pump gaskets ?


               J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: kozhill@titanlink.com (Jo-Anne Hillier)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:12:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Rodchester Qjet Float bowl

Joe; don't worry, its not such a big problem. The fuel in the Q jet is
leaking out the mettering wells  below the bowl. Its a common problem with
this misunderstood carb. If you take the bottom plate off you will see two
staked plugs. These plugs are the metering wells. Sometimes you can restake
them. Or you can rough them up with sand paper and epoxy them. Or some kits
come with a rubber block that fits in the hole in the bottom plate and
seals the wells. In any case what ever you do, before you put the carb back
on, fill the bowl with gas and see if it still leaks.
Scott
kozhill@titanlink.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:37:34 -0300
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.

At 10:40 AM 4/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>OL>At 09:23 PM 4/23/97 -0300, you wrote:
>OL>>OL>I'm sorry to say that removing engine IDª's is usually the work of a
thi >OL>>OL>or charlatan. >OL>> >OL>>OL>Ray >OL>>OL>70 Cutlass Conv. >OL>>
>OL>> >OL>>GM Replacement block? >OL>> >OL>>Daren >OL>> >OL>>O.C.A. ª23571
>OL>>daren@qconline.com >OL>> > >OL>I am under the impression that a GM
replacemet block will have casting >OL>numbers on it, and I got the idea from
the original post that the block >OL>didn't have any identification ª's. >
>OL>Ray >OL>70 Cutlass Conv. > >I didn't receive the original post. The block
should have some kind of >casting number, not necessarily the correct casting
number for the car. >The only way to have the correct id number would be if
the person >replacing the block stamped the number into the block.Isn't the id
>number part of the cars vin number? Isn't the casting number for telling
>when the block was made the displacement and it's intended use? > >Daren >
>O.C.A. ª23571 >daren@qconline.com > > > The casting number is more akin to
the blocks part number than anything to do with a serial number, engine or
VIN.  When the patterns for the casting are made they include the digits of
the casting number so that when the block is poured these numbers will appear.
Occasionally the casting number will actually be the 'part's book' part
number.

It is done to identify the pattern from which the casting is made, and hence
it also identifies the casting.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:40:32 -0300
Subject: Old maps

For those of you out there who have a vintage Olds (or other car), here's
a lead on what might be an interesting accessory at car shows, I've
found a source (while searching for a 1948 map of Tennessee-- I collect
maps) for old maps from various states.  This guy is really pretty
cheap... He only wanted $8 plus shipping for my '48 map.  If anybody
has any requests, I'll relay them to this guy and get back to you with a
price.  He's got road maps (authentic) from just about everywhere going
from the 1920's and before to current maps.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:56:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Old maps

At 12:40 AM 4/26/97 -0300, you wrote:
>For those of you out there who have a vintage Olds (or other car), here's
>a lead on what might be an interesting accessory at car shows, I've
>found a source (while searching for a 1948 map of Tennessee-- I collect
>maps) for old maps from various states.  This guy is really pretty
>cheap... He only wanted $8 plus shipping for my '48 map.  If anybody
>has any requests, I'll relay them to this guy and get back to you with a
>price.  He's got road maps (authentic) from just about everywhere going
>from the 1920's and before to current maps.
>
>Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
>Clayton Pierce,
>zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
>
>

Clayton,

Thats an interesting bit of automobilia to collect.  But do you have any
idea what they used before roadmaps became commonly available, and they were
not yet commonly available in 1920?

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:07:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to comment

At 09:14 PM 4/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>       Just in case anybody else reads this --  what's the deal with the
>FelPro water pump gaskets???  When i went to put water in my 455 it started
>leaking right by the upper part of the pump -- Ok i figure i put it on wrong
>and just in case i bought another gasket -- it turns out that the gaskets are
>cut just abbout a 16th of an inch off right around one of the u-turns that
>lead into the cylinder block -- has anybody else run into this little quirk
>with water pump gaskets ?

I may have, but I usually just use the gaskets to hold the RTV blue, so if
mine was cut wrong, the resulting leak would have been covered up by the
sealant (which, I suppose, forms the real gasket in this case). I'll have to
check that out on the Fel-Pro front cover kit I've got out in the garage.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:32:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!

Actually it's gray & green - not quite sure what critter that would be!!

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:47:57 -0300
Subject: VIN Cost

Considering you gave me the info I needed & wouldn't have probably found
otherwise, I'll gladly forward you the cost for running mine.

Don't know quite how many you ran all told - !


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 05:40:24 -0300
Subject: Water Pump Gaskets - was Reply to comment

At 10:14 PM 4/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>   Nah,  just joshin -- i had a 67 442 in high school, but now im fiddlin
>with a 67 F85 that ive just installed a 455 in.
>
>       Just in case anybody else reads this --  what's the deal with the
>FelPro water pump gaskets???  When i went to put water in my 455 it started
>leaking right by the upper part of the pump -- Ok i figure i put it on wrong
>and just in case i bought another gasket -- it turns out that the gaskets are
>cut just abbout a 16th of an inch off right around one of the u-turns that
>lead into the cylinder block -- has anybody else run into this little quirk
>with water pump gaskets ?

When I built my 350, the gasket set came with a water pump gasket.  The new
water pump ~also~ came with a gasket.  I didn't look, and yes, they were in
fact different.  When I filled the radiator, I noticed a bit of seepage from
the pass. upper side of the pump.  I swore a bit, but figured it wasn't that
bad.  It was the last day of the semester (class project...) and I had 1.5
hours to finish the car.  Soooo, I cranked it over.  Water shot out of that
hole at least fifteen feet away from the car!  I didn't fire it up that way.
I made record time changing that gasket, though.  About 45 minutes start to
start-it-up. (With air...) The hole in question was about 1/4 inch long,
where there's another "finger" style passage in the pump.  Near as I can
recall, it served no purpose, it was just a different design, or something.

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:53:47 -0300
Subject: Re: WS-30 455?

Jim Townsend writes:
>Hey, maybe Olds(or someone) would make a replica of this killer DOHC,
>multivalve 455!  Then the Viper would have something to worry about!
>Whoops, sorry...I'm back in Dreamland again.

Let's see...

Roll 3 cubic feet of sheet steel. Create a 3-dimensional model of the
block and CAM it with a 6 axis DNC Mill, Wire and plunge EDM as required
and finish grind where needed. Dreamland isn't that far away, just the
entrpreneur that has the cash to fund the project and the people to buy
this goodie. Since it is already designed, it is nothing more than
reverse engineering the manufacturing process. The questions are, how
many people would buy it and what would they pay to get it? I can't
imagine anything less than 10 grand to buy the block and maybe closer to
20... how many of us could afford that?

Now, if Oldsmobile did this and and marketed it at about 5 grand for the
block in order to increase sales, who could afford that? I'd save my
dimes and quarters to put one in a Olds! Who wouldn't want to put a
multi-valve Olds Hemi in their Oldsmobile?


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:16:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to comment

At 12:07 AM 4/26/97 -0300, you wrote:
>At 09:14 PM 4/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>       Just in case anybody else reads this --  what's the deal with the
>>FelPro water pump gaskets???  When i went to put water in my 455 it started
>>leaking right by the upper part of the pump -- Ok i figure i put it on wrong
>>and just in case i bought another gasket -- it turns out that the gaskets
are >>cut just abbout a 16th of an inch off right around one of the u-turns
that >>lead into the cylinder block -- has anybody else run into this little
quirk >>with water pump gaskets ? > >I may have, but I usually just use the
gaskets to hold the RTV blue, so if >mine was cut wrong, the resulting leak
would have been covered up by the >sealant (which, I suppose, forms the real
gasket in this case). I'll have to >check that out on the Fel-Pro front cover
kit I've got out in the garage.
>_______________________________________________________ >Dr. Robert Barry
MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu >Theology Dept, Providence College,
Providence, RI 02918 > > > I put a waterpump on last summer, and I was
dismayed at the fact that there were three gaskets included with the pump.
And they were all alike but different.  It took some imagination to determine
which was the correct one to use also.

I would look into two avenues of attach to this problem.

1. That you do not have the correct gasket,

2. That it has shrunk, but as they are usually paper, and not cork; very
unlikely.

I would go to Oldsmobile and get the proper gasket for your application.  I
would think that they would have the proper one available, and that you
would then have the proper gasket for the application, instead of getting
one from a 'set' for example; and the set is a one size fits all; which may
not actually apply!

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:27:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!

At 12:32 AM 4/26/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Actually it's gray & green - not quite sure what critter that would be!!
>
>Lisa Madsen
>
>Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
>, '72 Vista Cruiser project
>
>Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
>My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
>
>
Actually it sounds like my cat, he is grey with green eyes.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:02:20 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: Olds Today Article] (fwd)

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

- --------------11FE52A41B56
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii

The article attached is from the April 97 issue of "Olds Today". 43,000
copys were printed and sent to Oldsmobile employees (current and
retired), dealerships, and car club members.

My hope is the article will serve to inform the public how anyone with
internet access or a homepage can help find missing kids.  The article
credits me more than it should have.  The web sites in the article are
the result of many internet webmasters and CEO's, law enforcement, the
national center for missing and exploited children, and america's most
wanted.  Please forward this information on to any company or person with
a internet homepage who would like to give a link to these sites.

or visit www.missingkids.org and click on the "how I can help icon".

thanks


Dennis Jon Sytsma

dsytsma@dc.seflin.org

or you can cc a copy to my full internet account at

sytsma@gzinc.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:06:49 -0400
From:sytsma@gzinc.com
To: dsytsma@dc.seflin.org
Subject: [Fwd: Olds Today Article]

- --
The Sytsma's,
mailto:Sytsma@Gzinc.com
Ruled by the Zapper,
mailto:ZapperI@Juno.com

- --------------11FE52A41B56
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:01:51 -0500 (EST)
From: SPheadrus@aol.com
Message-ID: <970303192137_-1406525672@emout12.mail.aol.com>
To: sytsma@gzinc.com
Subject: Olds Today Article

Dennis,

I wasn't sure if the fax went through, so I'm sending you a copy of the
article via e-mail. Please check it for factual accuracy and get back with me
via phone at the office. Thanks for your help.

[Headline]
[Info box]
400 words

 Twice, Dennis Sytsma, event coordinator for the Olds Club of Florida, was
touched by a horror that all parents dread: the abduction of a child.

 And though the children were not his own, the experience changed his life.

 The first incident occurred more than two decades ago when Sytsma's
best-friend's niece was kidnapped by her non-custodial father. For 20 years,
Sytsma watched the family suffer through countless runs of "Missing Child"
posters and days and nights waiting for a phone call or a tip. Eventually,
the girl escaped her abusive father and located her mother -- but 20 years
had passed and the daughter had only vague memories of her life before the
abduction.

 The second incident occurred in 1995, when a playmate of Systma's son Brian
was abducted in South Florida. In an effort to help the family locate the
missing child, Sytsma, a technical expert with the Federal Aviation
Administration, offered to apply his background with computers to the search.
Sytsma posted photos and information about the missing child on the Internet,
hoping someone would recognize the boy and contact authorities.
Unfortunately, the story had a tragic ending -- the child was eventually
found slain. But Sytsma has continued to look for ways to use the Internet to
locate missing and exploited children.

 One of Sytsma's approaches to looking for missing children has been to turn
to businesses and corporations for assistance. Many of today's companies have
their own Internet sites, and these pages can be easily connected through
"links" to other sites on the Internet. By clicking on an icon or piece of
text, a user is sent to another organization's page. Sytsma provides a
company's webmaster -- the computer programmer who maintains an
organization's Internet site -- with technical instructions on how to
incorporate links into a business's page. These links may include World Wide
Web sites established by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, America's Most
Wanted, and the National Centers for Missing and Exploited Children.

 "We really needed to find a way to focus people's attention on these sites,"
says Sytsma. "There's a tremendous amount of information on missing kids on
the Internet, but many people don't know the addresses or how to incorporate
links to these sites into their home pages. The National Centers for Missing
and Exploited Children now offer a "How You Can Help" page that provides
technical support to webmasters who want to add these kinds of links."

 In fact, the National Centers for Missing and Exploited Children recently
unveiled a new take on the search for missing children on ABC's Good Morning
America. The Web Link program asks corporations, businesses or any other
web-page providers to volunteer space on the bottom of their home pages to
display pictures and information on the 12 most recently missing kids
reported to the National Centers. The pictures and information change
automatically every 10 minutes. Sytsma hopes that Oldsmobile retailers will
help out with the effort by establishing links on their facility's home pages
to the missing-children web sites.

 "Through the Internet we can educate anyone with a personal computer and
access to the world wide web," adds Sytsma. "This signals a real shift in how
we look for missing children. Now, people across the country -- and the world
- -- can help out without even leaving home. Businesses can play an important
role in making this happen. The more links that are established, the greater
our reach is. If we can get these kids' pictures out there, we have a better
chance of finding them."

[Infobox]
How You Can Help

The following Internet sites offer information on missing and exploited
children.

http://www.missingkids.org
http://www.fbi.gov
http://www.amw.com
http://www.imlost.com
http://www.cyberdeas.com/misskid/missca.html
http://www.seflin.org
http://dbs-mia.com/%7Empd/mainpage.html
http://www.childlures.com

- --------------11FE52A41B56--

------------------------------

From: AllenDJ@aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:34:12 -0300
Subject: 64 and 65 F-85 parts

A Clearwater,FL salvage yard has a 64 4-door and a 65 4-door F-85 in the
yard.  They look to be in pretty good shape (fenders, hoods, trunk lids).
 Anyone familiar with the area can check them out at Cophers U-Pull-it.  I
may be able to pull some parts if anyone is interested.

David
69 "S" Convertible
70 F-85 Rally 350

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:56:46 -0300
Subject: Re:

- ----------
> From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:
> Date: Friday, April 25, 1997 5:12 PM
>
>
>
> the other day someone was looking for some emblems for a Dynamic 88
> I spotted some in a 'yard the other day 1 on a '64 (?)  and two on a '66
(?)   all
> were in pretty good shape   I dont know a price but if they will work
I'll
> check on it
>
> Was that 66 a two door or convertable? If so I sure could use trunk
Torque rod
a  four door wont work.
> Walter

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:17:19 -0300
Subject: DOHC Hemi 455 Replica

At 08:53 AM 4/26/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Jim Townsend writes:
>>Hey, maybe Olds(or someone) would make a replica of this killer DOHC,
>>multivalve 455!  Then the Viper would have something to worry about!
>>Whoops, sorry...I'm back in Dreamland again.
>
>Let's see...
>
>Roll 3 cubic feet of sheet steel. Create a 3-dimensional model of the
>block and CAM it with a 6 axis DNC Mill, Wire and plunge EDM as required
>and finish grind where needed. Dreamland isn't that far away, just the
>entrpreneur that has the cash to fund the project and the people to buy
>this goodie. Since it is already designed, it is nothing more than
>reverse engineering the manufacturing process. The questions are, how
>many people would buy it and what would they pay to get it? I can't
>imagine anything less than 10 grand to buy the block and maybe closer to
>20... how many of us could afford that?

Well, if we ~all~ pitched in $50 or $100...  Seems to me many were ready
with more when Hall's Salvage was going up for sale...  The only question
would be Who's car would get it!  Maybe if we all pitched in $5000 we could
get enough resources to manufacture them ourselves...  Or we could buy a
salvage yard.  Hmmm.  Anyone have plans?  Anyone have a CNC Mill in their
backyard...  Wait, DNC.  Unsure of differences, as that's not my field...

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:54:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Pump Gaskets - was Reply to comment

On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Charley Buehner wrote:

> >       Just in case anybody else reads this --  what's the deal with the
> >FelPro water pump gaskets???  When i went to put water in my 455 it started
> >leaking right by the upper part of the pump -- Ok i figure i put it on
wrong > >and just in case i bought another gasket -- it turns out that the
gaskets are > >cut just abbout a 16th of an inch off right around one of the
u-turns that > >lead into the cylinder block -- has anybody else run into this
little quirk > >with water pump gaskets ? > According to my knowledge, Olds's
have two water pumps, a two-pulley and 3-pulley pump.  The shaft stick's out
a bit more on the 3-pulley and the gasket's are just a bit different in the
upper-passenger side corner.  I have seen this happen, and usually keep a
supply of both.  I don't know what possesed them to do that (probably the
same engineer that put that nut/stud combo on the power steering bracket
that's SO hard to get off).

Does anyone know if the flow is different between these two pumps?

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.0.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard of olds's: Current count : 5 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:11:40 -0300
Subject: Clarification on No More VINs

Well, it seems as though Lloyd has put you all on the spot, and I have
been inundated with offers to pay for the VIN service that I used.  Thank
you.

The problem is, I'm getting messages from people who are wanting to
re-imburse me for decoding their VINs and firewall tags.  Please
understand that any information that I can supply as to decoding VINs and
firewall tags in TOTALLY FREE OF CHARGE.  This I do with my own knowledge
that I have gained over the past few years as well as the literature I
have here at home.  I do this for you folks to be neighborly and expect
nothing in return for it, as there was a time when I had to depend on the
knowledge of others when decoding my own cars.  Knowledge is meant to be
shared with no strings attached.

The problem I am having is with VIN numbers that I was provided with by
list members to check for accurate mileage and previous ownership.  This
service was in no way related to my being able to decode a VIN or a
firewall tag.

Unless I supplied you with specific odometer reading or title transfer
information, you don't owe me anything, but I appreciate your concern.
And even if you're one of the people that I did supply this information
to, you still don't really owe me anything.  I really don't think that the
information provided was worth $12.50.  I offered this service to be
neighborly also, and didn't expect any payment for it.  I feel bad at this
point in the game to say I expect any payment.  The purpose of my original
post was not to ask for payment, but to let folks know that I would no
longer be able to perform this service and why.  Lloyd was very kind to
post his message, but I don't want people to feel as thought I've roped
them into this dilemma to get money from them.  That was not the intention
here.

Lastly, please do not be concerned that I will no longer be providing
information to decode VINs and firewall tags.  This knowledge is mine, as
are the books.  I don't have to pay anyone for this information.  Neither
will you.  And it will continue to be offered.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:13:43 -0300
Subject: Re: DOHC Hemi 455 Replica

On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Charley Buehner wrote:
> salvage yard.  Hmmm.  Anyone have plans?  Anyone have a CNC Mill in their
> backyard...  Wait, DNC.  Unsure of differences, as that's not my field...

Oh yeah... sure...

It's right in my garage... right next to my hydraulic lift and DOHC HEMI
Olds 455 powered '49 98 Fastback Club Coupe.

(For those of you who don't realize I'm kidding, I don't even have a
garage) :-)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
The ***OFFICIAL*** Editor of the Olds FAQ
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

Get a copy of the Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com
http://www.en.com/users/thall

Or FTP a "zipped" version from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.

------------------------------

From: eppu@cc.tut.fi (Jari Porhio)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:33:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Open Air Filter Element Question

IT wrote:

> increase horespower.  I installed a open-end air elemet from Edelbrock on
> my 1981 Delta 88 307 and all I got was hesitation and lousy performace.
> When I press the gas, it feels like it will stall.  It is better when
> warmer, but the weather has been pretty good (15 Celsius or so) and I don't

 Your engine hesitates because the fuel mixture gets too lean.

 Your original air cleaner had a thermostat and a hot air pipe to keep
the intake air temperature constant and correct for that particular
carburetor setup.

 Now your air cleaner just takes the air surrounding the engine, and
that air could have whatever temperature depending on air flow inside
the engine compartment, from freezing cold to very hot. This also
changes the air density and therefore air to fuel mixture.

 One reason for such a big change could be that your thermostat was
adjusted to provide very hot air for the carb. My original system
warmed the air above 50 C, not very good for maximum performance.
Fortunately those thermostats can be re-adjusted.

 Vacuum controlled systems have those green/blue thermostats inside
the cleaner. Just turn the screw inside the thermostat. Actuator rods
on mechanical thermostats can be lengthened to lower the temperature.

 I don't think a 307 really needs bigger than stock intake system,
unless other engine modifications are done. My original air cleaner
housing was barely enough for the 350 Buick, and a 307 is real dog
compared to that engine.

 The cleaner I had had a really small resonator tube inlet, couple of
inches in diameter. I think the inlet tube size is usually the worst
restriction in an air cleaner, not the cleaner element surface
size. You could connect a vacuum gauge inside your cleaner, and see if
there is some pressure drop across the cleaner.

 If I were you, I would use the stock cleaner setup, maybe change it
or just the inlet pipe to a bigger one. Then I would lower the
thermostat set-point to something around 20 C, depending on your
ambient temperature. After this, a carb re-adjustment would probably
be needed.

__________________________________________________________________________
 Jari Porhio  eppu@iki.fi :                     No offence  :)

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:59:45 -0300
Subject: 307 KABLOOM???

Well, on my way to Mr. Transmission with my turbo 400 for my cutlass, my
mom's 83 Olds88/307 stalled, never to be started again.  Apparently today
in the daylight It was pointed out that the damper pulley is not in fact
solidly attached to the rest of the crank, meaning some serious
crank damage.  It is
unlikely this motor will ever be rebuilt (a 74 350 would wake the thing
up, anyways).  Has anyone ever heard of such a thing on a 307? (Mail me
for as complete of details as I can provide if you want)

Another thing, the going rumour is that 307's are twice as much to
rebuild as 350 olds's, is this true, and how could it be??

(Now the 83 Blazer, 6.2L diesel and 76 1/2ton trailer are gonna have to
pick up where the other car left off!)

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.0.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard of olds's: Current count : 5 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª633
********************************
