To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #644


oldsmobile-digest            Friday, 2 May 1997         Volume 01 : Number 644

Re: 78 Cutlass Calais
Re: Re[2]: Valves
72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?
Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(
Re: 72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?
Re: Electrical Question
Re: Forged Crank!
Going, Going...
Who knew Craig Erickson?  (NON Olds!)
Thanks
Re: 1978 olds cutlass calais
Re: Electrical Question
Re: Begging for Links
Re: 1978 olds cutlass calais
Re: Re[2]: Valves
'88 Cutlass Supreme Classics
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª642
69 HURST DIE CAST
Re: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(
69 442
general pieces
Re: 69 442 ramrod
Re: 69 HURST DIE CAST
Re: 69 442
Re: I need more help 83 cutlass su
Re: '88 Cutlass Supreme Classics
Re: Re[2]: new member
Re: 83-4 H/O & 85-7 442 Exhaust NAPA ª's Please?
Re: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(
Re: Re[2]: new member
Re: 69 442
Re: Begging for Links
Re: 83-4 H/O & 85-7 442 Exhaust NAPA ª's Please?
Re: HEATER
Message-Id: <97May2.032020adt.37058(3)@chebucto.ns.ca>
Re:Jay H location
Re: Jay H location
Clearance Sale ª3 (5/2)
Early Toros for sale
Bugaboos Banished
Re: Stripe Options (fwd)
Re: 1983 Delta Royale Brougham question
Re: 83-84 H/O exhaust
'70 Cutlass dash pad
Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(
72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?
Re: Re[2]: new member

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:35:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 78 Cutlass Calais

At 08:02 PM 5/1/97 -0300, hanthorn wrote:

>> Yeah, my 79 Cutlass Supreme had a 305 Chevy, there was never an H.O.
version >> of it though that I can find.

>theres no such thing as a HO 305, sure they probably made them from them
>factory, but I've never seen the "High Output" 305 is not a performance
>engine. probably the worst small block made!!!
>Marty

Yeah, I agree there the Chevy 305 isn't exactly a great block to build a
serious engine from. The TPI 305's of the 91-92 era did manage 235 hp stock.
I know specifically in 1983 they made a H.O. 305 in the F-bodies that put
out 195hp, good for back then. It sure was alot easier and cheaper  to find
aftermarket performance parts for my 79 Cutlass 305 as compared to my 80 442
with the Olds block.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5, PEG2, TFX cat-back, Mobil 1(eng. & diff.),
http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30: show car... http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25:project car....


------------------------------

From: enowacki@titan.com (Erik Nowacki)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:46:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Valves

Thank you all for providing facts and opinions regarding the hardened
valve/seat question.  Although some of it was a little beyond my technical
capability, I seemed to get a consensus that saving money by skipping the
hardened valve seats is not a good idea on an engine that will see 200k of
street use.  I guess I will have to tighten the budget on something else
that is non-critical, like food or rent.

Again, thanks for your input.

Erik Nowacki
72 Vista Cruiser

BTW  I just picked up some Mercedes bucket seats for the VC, they are almost
a perfect color match too.  What a deal for $60 (for both) at the local
salvage yard.  They will look really nice when I get them in there instead
of the bench that is in there now.

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:47:36 -0300
Subject: 72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?

Ok, by now most of you know that I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme in decent shape
setting in our salvage yard and I am debating what to do with it. The body
and floors are great, frame great, the only rust is under the side rear
windows. Interior needs a makeover. The car runs strong, has factory duals,
an aftermarket Carter carb. etc. I am wanting to build me up a mainly
strip/some street car to have for fun. Would it be wise to do it with this
car or is it too valuable to put to torture as a drag queen ;-) I would
probably go with a 72 Toro 455 engine and get it built up to 70 W-30 specs
or better. My other option is to sell the car, which if I do decide to do
this I will be taking the car along with my 75 H/O to the Oldsmobile
Nationals at Norwalk, Ohio this summer.  Suggestions? Opinions?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5, PEG2, TFX cat-back, Mobil 1(eng. & diff.),
http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30: show car... http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25:project car....


------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 21:30:24 -0300
Subject: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(

     Got the beast running again last night, finally.  Ran like crap, but
that carb's always had a history of that, so I gave little extra attention
to that fact.  I ~did~ get it to idle, so I was happy.  Did a little playing
around with vacuum lines, and ~shwuck!~ up comes the one good headlight door
:)  Cool!  (I hate trying to make words look like sound effects!  They just
never work right!)  Clicked on low beams, and the one good light came on
bright as can be (it's an aftermarket, high intensity critter!)  Figure I'd
take a cruise around the block, since I'm in this good of shape:)  Put in
reverse, backed up about fifteen feet, engine sputtered, light fell, car
died :(  Started it again (slow process, there.)  It died about three times
while trying to go back forward, (light fell about ten times...) so I parked
it again, and called it a night.  Went out today, and Batt's dead (again).
Voltage reg's bad, and drains the battery overnight.  It's fine if I unplug
it, but I apparantly forgot that.  Got the charger out, fixed some other
light bulbs, and finally started it up again.  Yup, still rough.  Yup, still
smokes.  But, still idles, so it's good enough.  I let it get fairly warm,
so I can go to work with the degreaser (baadly needed!)  While idling, I get
the urge to see if both sides are smoking equally bad (just felt like
looking).  I happen to notice that only the driver's side exhaust is smoking
badly.  Wait, the pass. side isn't even blowing out exhaust :o  Uh, oh!
Maybe that explains part of the rough idle :o  I look underneath, and see no
noticable exhaust leaks (or no crossover to the other side, to make a single
exhaust system - some people ~are~ strange, ya never know...)  So, I shut it
off, and started degreasing the engine compartment.  While doing that, I
happened upon another frightening problem.

     TORO BUFFS TAKE NOTE PLEASE...  (I'm not on the Toro list yet, so I
might need a bit of extra assistance here )

     The back cover on the tranny, the part that covers the drive chain, and
has a metal band around it, is coming off.  It looks to be warped or
something.  There's about 1/2" gap for about 8" along the sealing surface.
This is right above what's probably the input shaft.  I'm assuming this
isn't a normal situation.  I'm guessing it's not a good situation, either :(
The prev. owner said something about blowing out part of the transaxle when
it was new, and they replaced it with a 68's piece under warranty.  It
sounded to me like he meant somewhere farther down the powertrain tho' like
the differential assy.  I don't think he really knows, but who's to say.  It
is a '67 tranny, tho, with the switch pitch.  Anyone have any experience
with this cover coming off?  Is it a major concern?  Any advice?  (Gawd, all
the questions...)

     Anyway, my next step is to let the engine dry off (what a greasy mess!)
and then pull off the pass. side exhaust for a bit.  She's gonna be loud!
(Hopefully!)  Then I can try to pinpoint where and why I have no exhaust on
that side.  The cyl's are firing, that side's head is just as hot as the
other (if not hotter)  I hope it hadn't been like this when he parked it.
God only knows what those valves are like if that's the case :(

     Thanks to my generous server, I'll probably have a few more things done
before this is posted.  (I have something similar to America On Line, only
it's a college server, and I like to refer to it as America On Hold.)
Constant busy signals.  I'll be graduating in a week, so I will then have to
get another service provider.  The local one has I think 8 28.8's, so my
odds will be better.  Maybe if I get a good reliable connection, I'll be
able to sign up to the Toro list too.  (Maybe if I'm ~really~ lucky, I'll be
driving a Toro by then, too!  :)


     Wow, scratch that last part, I'm already logged in!  Ooooh!

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 21:27:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> Ok, by now most of you know that I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme in decent shape
> setting in our salvage yard and I am debating what to do with it. The body
> and floors are great, frame great, the only rust is under the side rear
> windows. Interior needs a makeover. The car runs strong, has factory duals,
> an aftermarket Carter carb. etc. I am wanting to build me up a mainly
> strip/some street car to have for fun. Would it be wise to do it with this
> car or is it too valuable to put to torture as a drag queen ;-)

Go for it!

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 21:44:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical Question

At 11:51 PM 4/30/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I own a 1966 Olds Ninety-Eight Convertible.  I have found that many things
such
>as the power windows, radio, fan blower, etc. still work when the key is shut
 >off in the car.  I had the ignition switch checked and they said it was
working >fine.  When I asked one person about it, they said that's the way it
was suppose >to be because the key didn't shut things off (such as power
windows) till a >couple of years later.  I have just started working on the
car and don't have a >whole lot of knowledge about it yet, but that just
didn't seem right.  Could >there be anything else wrong besides the ignition
switch.  Also, is a 1966 Olds >'98 Convertible a rare car.  No matter how
hard I try I haven't been able to >find even a picture of another one.  Help
Please... > Try the voltage regulator.  My '67 Toro is doing the exact same
thing to me right now, except it kills the batt. overnight, as well.  I unplug
the voltage regulator, and the windows don't work with the key off.  I don't
know about the factory correctness (i.e. if the key is supposed to kill the
windows or not) but that's my assumption on mine.  Good luck !


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:03:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Forged Crank!

At 03:46 PM 5/1/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>So someone please refresh my memory as to how to identify one of these
>>things...  I've never even seen a crank, forged or otherwise.
>
>
>According to Mondello Tech Ref Manual, forged cranks have an "L" shaped
>notch in the flexplate end of the crank. 425 and 455 have a different bolt
>pattern where the flexplate attaches to the crank.
>Cast Iron cranks have a shallow "U" shaped notch in this area instead of
>"L" shaped.
>Nodular Iron cranks have a large "N" cast into the side of the ª1
>counterweight.
>
>So...if you have a flexplate that is known to be from a 455 or 350 and its
>holes line up with the holes in the end of the crank
>And... the crank has an "L" shaped notch in the end
>Then it's a steel 455 crank (according to Mondello)

Uhh, my '70 455's crank had an "L" shaped notch in it, I'm almost certain.
I never examined it ~that~ closely, but I seem to recall seeing that notch
on the mounting flange.  I'm starting to feel sick.  I'll be OK, tho, but I
may have get some prozac or something.  That's the one I spun the two rods
bearings in.  I'll have to go find the block soon and verify those details.
:(


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:14:28 -0300
Subject: Going, Going...

Well all,

I've got to unsbuscribe (misspelled it y'a darned majordummy) from the
list for a little while as I will be without net access.  I'm certain that
while I'll miss my daily "oldsmobile fix" I'll just have that much more
time to spend under the hood of Lucille.  If you need to get in touch with
me, send mail to my other address (the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com) which I
will be checking once a week if possible, or if for some reason you need
to, feel free to call me at (423) 638-2780 (evenings mostly)

I will probably be resubscribing to the digest version of the list in
about a month, and probably the live version again this fall when I start
school again.

Ta Ta For Now,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com

The ***OFFICIAL*** Editor of the Olds FAQ

Get a copy of the Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com
http://www.en.com/users/thall
http://www.cybercity.hko.net/ulan_bator/gee/oldsfaq/oldsfaq3.htm

Or FTP a "zipped" version from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:24:04 -0300
Subject: Who knew Craig Erickson?  (NON Olds!)

     A while back someone sent me info about Craig Erickson.  Used to work
together at a Colorado radio station.  I lost the original post somewhere,
but I remember I was supposed to give him a hard time about some certain
apartments.  Anyway, I see Craig periodically at work, often twice a week.
He's getting married.  Sounds like a good time for a ribbing about his wild
and crazy youth, right?  Anyway, could whoever sent that (damn memory!)
please respond to this?  Thanks.


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Robert Yasczak <VJTD@grove.iup.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:36:46 -0300
Subject: Thanks

I just wanted to thanks everyone for all of the help.  I am leaving on
Saturday for summer break and will not have access to the list.  With all of
the time that I now spend on the computer I just keep thinking about working
on my Oldsmobiles.  Again, thanks to everyone that has helped me with my
questions throughout the year. One final question, I plan on replacing my
T-tops seals this summer. Is this something I can do or should I let the
dealer do it?  If I let the dealer do it I will get the parts whole sale and
most likely a lower labor charge, since they are good friends of the family.
Thanks Again Robb Yasczak vjtd@grove.iup.edu 1969 Cutlass Conver. 1969 442
1976 442 1987 Cutlass Salon

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:52:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 1978 olds cutlass calais

By giving the vin number you can tell this car has a 260 cu in engine

3 olds
k calais
47 two door
F 260 engine
8  1978
D plant it was built in
422288 your car number

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:55:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical Question

On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Schaack Family wrote:

> I own a 1966 Olds Ninety-Eight Convertible.  I have found that many things
such > as the power windows, radio, fan blower, etc. still work when the key
is shut > off in the car.  I had the ignition switch checked and they said it
was working > fine.  When I asked one person about it, they said that's the
way it was suppose > to be because the key didn't shut things off (such as
power windows) till a > couple of years later.  I have just started working
on the car and don't have a > whole lot of knowledge about it yet, but that
just didn't seem right.  Could > there be anything else wrong besides the
ignition switch.  Also, is a 1966 Olds > '98 Convertible a rare car.  No
matter how hard I try I haven't been able to > find even a picture of another
one.  Help Please...

NOTHING in my '67 works with out the key ON.  No windows, no seat, no
blower, no radio.  In fact, my '61 was the same way.

There were 4,568 Ninety Eight convertibles built for '66.  There's one for
sale down the road from me for $10900!  It has the Starfire motor.  Has
32K original miles.  Very few options.  Target Red with a Black top and
interior.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:10:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Begging for Links

There is a book published by Crest Line written by the late Dennis Casteele
called the  CARS OF OLDSMOBILE,  it has pictures and production figures and a
lot of info on all Oldsmbiles built from 1897 to 1981. It is a great tool for
the Olds lovers
 It should still be available from larger book stores or from Fusick
Automotive
or from Al Sandy in NJ


Everett   OCA ª 1961

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:12:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 1978 olds cutlass calais

On Thu, 1 May 1997, Stephen Brown wrote:

> I have a 1978 olds cutlass calais, black and silver with t-tops, H.O. 305,
> and olds/hurst wheels all from the factory.  I have a few questions about
> this car that I can't seem to find answers to in any automotive book.
> First of all, all of the car books tell me that this type of cutlass was
> not produce until 1979 and was black and gold.  I was wondering if maybe
> the one that I have was maybe a special order car and if it is a rare one.

Cutlass Calais(s) were available for '78.  Many of them had two paint that
was similar to the paint scheme offered on the Hursts of '79 and '80.
What you are referring to as Hurst wheels are actually an Oldsmobile
factory aluminum wheel that was available on the '78s.  The Hursts used
these same wheels, but they were painted gold.  You'll have to be more
specific as to what you mean about H.O. 305.  What are you basing this on?
I have no knowledge of a high output option in '78, just a 305 2bbl and
305 bbl.  I don't know that what you have is rare, but I think the '78
Calais models  are certainly more desirable than a standard Cutlass
Supreme or Salon.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:18:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Valves

 Paul you said,
>   One mechanical engineer's point of view:
>
>   Stainless steels have thermal conductivities along the lines of 15 W/m
k,
> versus carbon steels that are aound 60 W/ m k.  This means that the
> stainless valve will not conduct nearly as much heat to the valve seat
when
> they are in intimate contact as the carbon steel valve.

Then does the S/S valve run hotter than its carbon steel counterparts since
it doesn't transfer as much heat to the seat & guide? If so I would have to
assume that this additonal heat doesn't harm Stainless like it would carbon
steel.  GM has gone to S/S exaust valves in their 5.7 V8's. I have not seen
much guide wear in these engines I wonder if this is why?
Walter

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:23:15 -0300
Subject: '88 Cutlass Supreme Classics

On Thu, 1 May 1997, Barnacle Bill wrote:

> >      BTW, I just saw my first ever '88 RWD Cutlass in the mall parking lot
 > >      the other week (are these really rare or is it just me?).  I'm not >
>      sure what to make of that new front end with the composite headlights. >
>       Part of me says "weird", another part says "hey, cool!". > > I think
about 2500 '88 RWD Cutlasses were made.  It will probably be a > collectors
item in the near future, but not as great as the '83-'84 H/O. > I've seen 4 or
5 '88 RWD Cutlasses around here (RI) and even found one in > salvage yard that
I picked a few parts from, and am hoping to back and get > a few more from it.


I sold these new in '87.  '87 was the first year for the composite
headlight thing.

There were 15,568 standard Cutlass Supreme Classics and 12,110 Broughams
built in '88.  We got one of these in in the fall of '87 and I think it
was the prettiest one I've ever seen.  It was white with a maroon landaus
top and maroon bucket seat interior.  It had rare cross-laced aluminum
wheels on it with whitewalls.  This is the only Supreme coupe I've ever
seen with these wheels.  It landed at out dealership while I was on
vacation and was immediately snapped up by a local doctor.  I watched that
car through our service department until Doc decided to trade it for a '92
Achieva.  I couldn't buy it though, as it was re-sold and delivered within
an hour of coming on the lot.  The new owners ran the hell out of it in no
time. :(

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:26:15 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª642

On Thu, 1 May 1997, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> Ermm... I don't think so, Wiz. Yes, there's an accessory position, but it
> usually activates only lower-power accessories like the radio. High-draw
> accessories like power windows and heater blowers only activate in the
> Ignition On position when the engine is presumably running.

Ermm...  Sorry, the electric windows and seat on my '67 do work with the
key in the accessory position.  It hasn't been modified.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: Chris Matthes <cdogg73@elknet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:57:11 -0300
Subject: 69 HURST DIE CAST

I know a lot of you out there have the Ertl 69 H/O die cast, and i just
bought it.  I think it is a great replica, but, being the scale auto
enthusiast that i am, I had to take it apart and detail it.  Can anyone out
there give me the details i need...

block color
air cleaner
intake(aluminum or no?)
heads(aluminum or no?)
inner fenders(red like the 442?)


thank you for any help

Chris Matthes
73 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:35:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(

At 08:30 PM 5/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>     Got the beast running again last night, finally.  Ran like crap, but
[snip]
>so I can go to work with the degreaser (baadly needed!)  While idling, I get
>the urge to see if both sides are smoking equally bad (just felt like
>looking).  I happen to notice that only the driver's side exhaust is smoking
>badly.  Wait, the pass. side isn't even blowing out exhaust :o  Uh, oh!

Oooo, ooo, I know, I know! You mean out of the tailpipe under the rear
bumper? (my '68 doesn't get nearly that far...) Here's what's happening:

The Toro runs a single cross-flow muffler, so the stuff coming out (or not
coming out) the passenger-side exhaust is the stuff that should be coming
out the driver's side cylinder bank, and vice-versa. Do you know what's on
the driver's-side exhaust manifold, but not the passenger side? That's
right, the HEAT RISER VALVE! Yours is stuck closed. Common problem for cars
sitting for any length of time (I had to free mine up on the '68 before I
tried to start it). Soak the shaft on the spring-side of the valve with some
penetrant, gently tap the end of the shaft with a drift and a hammer (be
careful not to break off the counterweight), and you should slowly be able
to work free the valve. Don't bother spraying penetrant on the side of the
shaft opposite the spring; that's just a plug, and doesn't move. Be patient,
and you should be able to free it up.

>Maybe that explains part of the rough idle :o  I look underneath, and see no

That would explain it; all the exhaust from the driver's side has to run
through the intake-manifold crossover!

>     TORO BUFFS TAKE NOTE PLEASE...  (I'm not on the Toro list yet, so I
>might need a bit of extra assistance here )
>
>     The back cover on the tranny, the part that covers the drive chain, and
>has a metal band around it, is coming off.  It looks to be warped or
>something.  There's about 1/2" gap for about 8" along the sealing surface.
>This is right above what's probably the input shaft.  I'm assuming this
>isn't a normal situation.  I'm guessing it's not a good situation, either :(

Actually, it's a fine situation (and *why* are you not on the Toro list yet?
;). What you are seeing is a sound insulator/deadener that is attached by a
band-type clamp. Being loose like that won't hurt anything at all. Don't
sweat it!

>The prev. owner said something about blowing out part of the transaxle when
[snip]
>with this cover coming off?  Is it a major concern?  Any advice?  (Gawd, all
>the questions...)

Perhaps he blew out the planetary differential, and it was replaced with the
later-style bevel-gear differential. In any case, don't worry about the
tranny; just keep the fluid-level up, and it will treat you like royalty.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Douglas J Harkema" <harkema2@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:43:47 -0300
Subject: 69 442

I found an orignal ª's matching 69 442 with the ram rod 400.  They want 13
grand.  the car has been painted but is correct and awesome 72,000 documented
miles.  What is the going price for a car like this?  The problem is that I
live in an olds town--LANSING--every olds is more here!!

Also looking for a 1970 cutlass s  body good condition doesn't need to be
running.

Thanks for all your help

------------------------------

From: mwalker@hadco.com (Mike Walker)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:43:55 -0300
Subject: general pieces

 Everett,

 I was just wondering if you ever did find the matching piece to the
 lower body, front spear for my 67 cutlass. Also have you found any
 wheel moldings yet ? I had a guy from Tamraz's (in Ind I think) get
 ahold of me yesterday. He has located a set of used one AND a set of
 NOS. $85/ + shipping for the used (*OUCH*) and $175/ wheel for NOS.
 (***DOUBLE OUCH***).

 If you have them, can you do any better ? I told him I was going out
 of town for a few days, and wouldnt send him money til next Wed or
 so. If I dont hear from you, I will have to buy them from him. My car
 is all done, just waiting for them.

 Will be in touch. Take care     Mike Walker

 ps  I WILL be out  of town til next Tues. Will be in touch then if
 you come up with those. I still need the spears too !


------------------------------

From: hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:58:26 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 442 ramrod

Douglas J Harkema wrote:
>
> I found an orignal ª's matching 69 442 with the ram rod 400.  They want 13
> grand.  the car has been painted but is correct and awesome 72,000
documented > miles.  What is the going price for a car like this?  The problem
is that I > live in an olds town--LANSING--every olds is more here!! > > Also
looking for a 1970 cutlass s  body good condition doesn't need to be >
running. > > Thanks for all your help Ramrod 400???? the ramrod was a 350 and
not a 442, a limited production in 68 not sure on figures but around 500 made,
a friend of mine told me that his uncle had one back then and it could keep up
with the dodge 440's and could pull the front wheels off the ground. they are
not very popular cause they were a plain jane cutlass not a 442. Marty

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:03:49 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 HURST DIE CAST

At 01:57 AM 4/29/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I know a lot of you out there have the Ertl 69 H/O die cast, and i just
>bought it.  I think it is a great replica, but, being the scale auto
>enthusiast that i am, I had to take it apart and detail it.  Can anyone out
>there give me the details i need...
>
>block color

Red

>air cleaner

dunno...

>intake(aluminum or no?)
>heads(aluminum or no?)

Red

>inner fenders(red like the 442?)

dunno...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:11:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 442

At 10:43 PM 5/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I found an orignal ª's matching 69 442 with the ram rod 400.  They want 13

Never heard it called a "Ram Rod" before, I thought only the W-31's used
that name, and only in 1968. Oh well, live and learn.

Perhaps it has the OAI scoops and dual-snorkel air-cleaner? That would make
it a W-30 or W-32 car.

>grand.  the car has been painted but is correct and awesome 72,000 documented
>miles.  What is the going price for a car like this?  The problem is that I
>live in an olds town--LANSING--every olds is more here!!

Wow. $13,000? It'd better be PERFECT for that price! Everything ought to be
there in absolutely perfect condition. Still, unless it is a W-30 or W-32,
or that and a convertible, or it is a ª1 or high ª2 showcar, that sounds a
bit high. It's definitely too high for a daily-driven, or even
regularly-driven-for-pleasure-on-weekends car, especially if it's simply a
non-W, non-convertible 442.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: DaWolf77@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:34:08 -0300
Subject: Re: I need more help 83 cutlass su

Thanks I'll try that and let you know

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:41:33 -0300
Subject: Re: '88 Cutlass Supreme Classics

On Thu, 1 May 1997, Paul Hartlieb wrote:

> On Thu, 1 May 1997, Barnacle Bill wrote:
>
> >
> > I think about 2500 '88 RWD Cutlasses were made.  It will probably be a

Uh Oh.  My mistake.  That's 2500 for EXPORT.  And all this time I tought
they were "rare". Paul you're right with those production numbers. I guess
I should look a little closer next time :)

> There were 15,568 standard Cutlass Supreme Classics and 12,110 Broughams
> built in '88.  We got one of these in in the fall of '87 and I think it
>

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:45:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new member

On Thu, 1 May 1997, Peter L. House wrote:

> Is there a differance between the '88 and the '87 Cutlass Supreme,
> Salon & 442. I thought that the only differance, was the headlights
> from 2 lamp system to composite light and the turn signal reminder
> which the '86 did not have..
>

I don't think there was a differnce between the 87 and 88 Cutlasses.  I
know that 87 was the last year for the 442, and that from 86 to 87 the
only differnce is the front fascia (sp) and head lights.  Someone correct
me if I'm wrong.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:55:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 83-4 H/O & 85-7 442 Exhaust NAPA ª's Please?

On Thu, 1 May 1997 brad.nicholson@ssa.gov wrote:

>
> 1 - Who had the NAPA part ª's for the replacement exhaust
> 2 - Anyone done a system w/ turbo style mufflers and what
>     did ya use (NO 3" systems please)
> 3 - any thoughts on mufflers (Not flowmasters, out of my
>     price range)
> 4 - Did anyone replace their Cat. Conv. w/ a new high flow
>     model and if so which one and your opinion.

One exhaust guy I talked to said that the cat on the car already
is of the same design as the "high flow" meaning it's honeycomb and not
pellet style.

> 5 - Y-pipe used: was is custom bent or production piece.
> 6 - Any TOTAL custom bent systems and how much did it run

I had a custom Y pipe and total custom bent system for my '85 Cutlass. I
used dual Supertrapp mufflers exiting like the Monte SS (I know, I
know, but that's the only way they would fit) The mufflers were about $100
each and the custom bent aluminized pipes cost me about $300 at a Midas
shop. They did a great job on it too. (It got compliments from my
mechanics!!)

Hope this helps.  I don't think I'll use the same setup again though, only
'cause I don't want to cut into that cool Hurst/Aero effects that I'm
getting :) (real BIG grin)

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

>

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:14:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(

>Oooo, ooo, I know, I know! You mean out of the tailpipe under the rear
>bumper? (my '68 doesn't get nearly that far...) Here's what's happening:
>
>The Toro runs a single cross-flow muffler, so the stuff coming out (or not
>coming out) the passenger-side exhaust is the stuff that should be coming
>out the driver's side cylinder bank, and vice-versa. Do you know what's on
>the driver's-side exhaust manifold, but not the passenger side? That's
>right, the HEAT RISER VALVE! Yours is stuck closed. Common problem for cars
>sitting for any length of time (I had to free mine up on the '68 before I
>tried to start it). Soak the shaft on the spring-side of the valve with some
>penetrant, gently tap the end of the shaft with a drift and a hammer (be
>careful not to break off the counterweight), and you should slowly be able
>to work free the valve. Don't bother spraying penetrant on the side of the
>shaft opposite the spring; that's just a plug, and doesn't move. Be patient,
>and you should be able to free it up.

Well, good thought, but alas, not for this car.  The factory muffler and two
resonators have been replaced with two glasspacks (in the resonator
postitions), and the pipe coming out the pass side goes straight (well, with
a ~few~ curves!) to the pass. side ex.man.  The heat riser is on the
driver's side, and I checked it out a couple days ago.  Sticky, but open,
and moveable.  All the ~pass~ exhaust must go through the X-over, and then
out the driver's side, through the heat riser valve.  (Gawd, if ~that~ stuck
shut now, I'd have ~real~ idle problems!!!)

>Actually, it's a fine situation (and *why* are you not on the Toro list yet?
>;). What you are seeing is a sound insulator/deadener that is attached by a
>band-type clamp. Being loose like that won't hurt anything at all. Don't
>sweat it!
>

Ah, good.  (whew!~)  Well, I've always got these 100 or so messages to bring
in, and I ~usually~ can't get on before 2:00 AM, thanks to our extremely
busy school server (we have 6 modems, I think, on a total of 8 access lines,
with 8 phone lines going in to the building the server's located in.  Those
8 phone lines connect to some twenty or thirty extension phones in offices,
classrooms, etc, PLUS the network.  Soooo, if three teachers are on the
phone to students, two students are on the phone to parts suppliers, and one
janitor is fighting with his girlfriend at home, there are only two phone
lines left for some 200+ student accounts!  (Damn!)  Anyway, it's tough at
times to log on to get the mail.  Sooo, I figure I'd be better off having
fewer messages to deal with at 2am.  Aw screw it.  I just subscribed!  I'd
better go take my medication again, that **** Toro virus is taking hold again!


Thanks for the info!  Catch ya later :)


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:12:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new member

Bill Reilly wrote:

>I don't think there was a differnce between the 87 and 88 Cutlasses.  I
>know that 87 was the last year for the 442, and that from 86 to 87 the
>only differnce is the front fascia (sp) and head lights.  Someone correct
>me if I'm wrong.

Bill,
      I believe the '88 Supreme Classic had a slightly different grill and
tail-light trim than the '87.  Then again, I'm probably wrong, also. :-)

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:30:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 442

In a message dated 97-05-02 00:09:04 EDT, you write:

<< I found an orignal ª's matching 69 442 with the ram rod 400.  They want 13
 grand.  the car has been painted but is correct and awesome 72,000
documented
 miles. >>
I would pay no more than 10,000 for it.  Unless it says Ramrod W-32 then its
worth the 13 and if only he has the paper work for it.


W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:34:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Begging for Links

In a message dated 97-05-01 19:36:16 EDT, you write:

<< Wouldn't it be great to have a
 table sorted by year and model with pictures of some of these cars?

 Of course, I thought about buying every single model and year
 combination, but sobered up the next day and thought of a new plan: >>
THERE IS A BOOK CALLED "THE CARS OF OLDSMOBILE" written by Dennis Casteele.
 It will give you a picture and paragraph about the cars of olds from 1896
til
present.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:43:22 -0300
Subject: Re: 83-4 H/O & 85-7 442 Exhaust NAPA ª's Please?

At 12:55 AM 5/2/97 -0300, Barnacle Bill wrote:


>
>I had a custom Y pipe and total custom bent system for my '85 Cutlass. I
>used dual Supertrapp mufflers exiting like the Monte SS (I know, I
>know, but that's the only way they would fit) The mufflers were about $100
>each and the custom bent aluminized pipes cost me about $300 at a Midas
>shop. They did a great job on it too. (It got compliments from my
>mechanics!!)

Did you notice any performance gains/losses with the SuperTrapps? A few cars
that I have seen dynoed lost 5-15 hp with the SuperTrapp's installed.
>
>Hope this helps.  I don't think I'll use the same setup again though, only
>'cause I don't want to cut into that cool Hurst/Aero effects that I'm
>getting :) (real BIG grin)

No don't cut into those awesome effects ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5, PEG2, TFX cat-back, Mobil 1(eng. & diff.),
http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30: show car... http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25:project car....


------------------------------

From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 02:44:39 -0300
Subject: Re: HEATER



My '89 cutlass supreme has the digital climate control and has always
worked very good    slight difference between highway and in town driving
My one complaint is that there is no "vent"       lately I've been running
with the system off and I've noticed my gas mileage increased by 3-5 mpg
I'm assuming this is because the AC is cycling often in order to
maintain the temp  I've been toying with the Idea of toggling the power to
the compressor  so I can have "vent" for spring and fall driving (yea the
extra mileage looks good too)

Dustin

On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Paul Hartlieb wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Daniel A. Gulino wrote:
>
> > My '75 88 has the "tempmatic" air conditioner, too, and I've never been
> > able to figure out what makes it different from the "regular" air
> > conditioner, which just had a "hot-cold" temperature slide, or the
> > "comfortron," which had a dial indicator so that you could dial up a
> > temperature they way you do with your home thermostat.  The tempmatic has
a > > slide lever like the regular airconditioner, but it has temperature > >
markings, running from 65 to 85, instead of just the words "hot" at one end >
> and "cold" at the other.  I've never noted it to do anything other than > >
what a regular a/c system would do.  How is it "better" than the regular > >
A/C but not as good as the comfortron? > > > > Dan > > Dan, > > I always
thought the Tempmatic was a silly idea.  Comfortron, which proved > to be
troublesome, knew what the inside temperature and outside > temperature was,
as well as what the temperature was of the air coming out > of the ducts.  If
you had a cold outside temp, the system knew it had to > throw heat, and knew
it had to throw it out of the heater ducts.  If you > had a hot out temp, the
system knew it had to throw A/C and throw it out > of the A/C ducts.  It was a
totally automatic system.  You set it at 70 > degrees and it would maintain
that temp year round and pick the right mode > of delivery.  You only had to
set the controls once, and never had to > touch them again. > > I think
Tempmatic kept the same basic temperature control theory, but > ditched the
trouble automatic mode selection.  One of the big drawbacks of > the early
Comfortron system is that if the system was on, so was the > compressor, all
the time, no cycling.  There also was no vent setting, and > there was no
bi-level setting, which became quite popular.  By making a > hybrid of the two
existing systems, they maintained temperature control > while allowing a vent
setting along with manual control of the delivery of > air. > > With the 4
season air and the hot and cold setting, you naturally went in > the direction
of the temp that you wanted.  I've never run Tempmatic > system, but it's my
understanding that if you set it at 70, it would > maitain that temp,
regardless of outside temp, as the Comfortron system > would.  That's what I'm
getting out of my '76 owners manual anyway. > > Paul Hartlieb > plh@leba.net >
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine) > '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible
(Sunfire Yellow) > > > > >

------------------------------

From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:20:30 -0300
Subject: Message-Id: <97May2.032020adt.37058(3)@chebucto.ns.ca>

'78 Olds Delta 88 - dual exhaust?

Has anybody ever put dual exhaust on a '78 Olds delta 88?  I don't see
any around here..  (SF bay area, CA) The only cars that I see that even
come close are 9C1 caprices, Impala SS's, and one caprice that had a
Y-pipe after the pellet cat..

I'm looking for the performance potential of replacing my single
(varying sizes) single exhaust system, with single monolith cat.  If I
have to, I'll go with a G-body cat-back system and modify the pipes as
needed.

Mike jones
mjones@gleep.com

------------------------------

From: TURBO38@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 05:27:14 -0300
Subject: Re:Jay H location

Austin TX. where are you?

------------------------------

From: KRAUSE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:14:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Jay H location

Baltimore,Maryland
And looking for something a little closer to home.
Unless you'll be in the area sometime soon.
It sounds like the perfect deal for me!

68,70 442 Seeker
gck

------------------------------

From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:29:30 -0300
Subject: Clearance Sale ª3 (5/2)

- -- Clearance Sale ª3 --

I have reduced the price on the following Oldsmobile related items which
were previously advertised but which did not sell:

1949 Futuramic Oldsmobile Salesman=B9s Facts Book.  Over 200 4-1/2 x 7-1/2
inch pages of specifications and selling features of the 1949 Oldsmobile
product line, including the =B3Rocket=B2 V-8 and =B3Big Six=B2 engines,
Hydra-Matic Drive, chassis, body, and accessories.  Bound in original
six ring looseleaf binder.  Very good condition.  Originally advertised
at $125.00.  Now $100, including shipping to any address in North
America.

Hurst/Olds Club of America embroidered patch.  Black and red, on a white
backing.  11 inches in diameter and perfect for the back of a jacket or
use on a car cover.  Mint original.  Originally advertised at $20.00.
Now $15.00, including shipping to any address in North America.

1984 Hurst/Olds sales brouchure.  4 8-1/2 x 11 inch pages of photos,
drawings, descriptions and specifications of the =8C84 H/O which opens
into a 17 x 22 inch =B3Experience Lightning=B2 poster of a side view of the
car superimposed over a closeup of the Lightning Rods shifter.
Originally advertised at $15.00.  Now $12.00, including shipping to any
address in North America.

(5/2/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
any of these items, or if you would like additional information about
any of them.  Thank you.

          =3D=3D=3D
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | | | =3D Tom Stoner =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         =3D=3D=3D    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D+

------------------------------

From: "SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK" <FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:17:17 -0300
Subject: Early Toros for sale

I saw these in my local Philly paper--
*Toronado- 1966. runs great, needs body work. $500. after 5:00 pm (eastern)
*Toronado- 1967. body solid. needs some mechanical work. $250. After 5:00.
Both are the same guy. (215) 699-6709.





=============================================================================
Frank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:19:20 -0300
Subject: Bugaboos Banished

Did a couple of things last night that might go a long way to getting
rid of some long-term annoyances with the Cutlass. We tore down the
distributor and checked it out on the machine. There was a lot of
vertical slop in the shaft and that might be what was causing the dwell
to move around a bit. The old original grease in the thing was the
consistency of candlewax so that got replaced. Everything else got
cleaned, lubed and then checked on the machine. To my joy everything
checked right on spec after the work.

After we reinstalled it and discovered the timing light was missing in
action :o we timed it by hand as best we could and got it pretty close.
Then I suggested we check out the carb's well plugs to see if it was the
cause of the hard hot starting, somewhat lumpy idle and rich exhaust the
car has had since the carb was put on. Don was dubious but when we pulled
the carb and saw the puddles of gas in the intake he started to come
around. When he took the bottom of the carb of and saw it dripping gas I
felt vindicated! We used some Loctite Weld (like JB Weld I think) and
sealed up both sets of plugs. Driving it home after reinstalling it I
could definitely feel a difference in how it was running. A good night's
work.

Next week, the PS pump gets swapped and maybe that will finish this job
of sending the gremlins packing!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:04:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Stripe Options (fwd)

Hi all,

Paul Hartleib forwarded this back to me since it didn't get to the list.

>  > Well I am back folks from being off of work since last Wednesday.  Got
>  > through all of those 400+ messages! Whew! (Not all Olds related :-)
>  >
>  > This weekend as I was driving with a friend I saw the most gorgeous
>  > 70-72? 442 (I believe) coming out of a repair shop (brakes, etal).  She
>  > looked and sounded purrrrrrty.  She had a 68 H/O color scheme going on.
>  > Black body and Silver highlights or stipes?  She also was a convertible
>  > with a shiny black top.  Hearing her engine roar made me a little sad
>  > for my 68 442.  I nearly wrenched my neck trying to look at her.  Why
>  > are trucks on the road when a person is trying to look at an Oldsmobile?
>  > They outta be banned :-)
>  >
>  > Also this weekend I purchased another Oldsmobile.  Some of you may
>  > remember that I wanted to replace my L*nc*ln TC.  It is rusty and ugly!
>  > I saw this 1982 Delta Royale Brougham for sale for $1,500 (which I got
>  > for 1,400).  It was owned by one owner, a senior lady in her sixties.
>  > The car is verrrrry clean for its age.  She garaged it most of its life
>  > until she got her new Cutlass last year.  The car has all the power
>  > goodies and is a two door with opera windows.  Its has the Landau top
>  > which to my surprise is in excellant condition.  It is a Charcoal Gray
>  > metallic on the outside and light/medium grays on the inside.  The car

It also has the chrome strips along the rocker panel areas.

>  > is basically immaculate.  I am currently having my mechanic go over the
>  > car as I write this.
>  >
>  > One thing that bothered me about the car is that her nephew (under 25)
>  > replaced the valve cover gaskets.  This worries me since I don't know
>  > if he knows what he is doing.  I am hearing an exhaust leak sound and
>  > think maybe he had something to do with it.

At least there are no fluid leaks to date!

>  >
>  > According to my mechanic's son-in-law, this car is the kind that young
>  > degenerates like to steal.  Oh boy that sounds like fun ;-)  This guy
>  > was willing to give me a $500 finder's fee for the car if I sold it to
>  > him.  Verrrryy interesting.

A friend of mine is willing to buy this car from me if I don't like it.
Hmmmmm...

>  >
>  > Anyways I got the Fisher info from the car (Sorry I don't have the VIN.
>  > I checked out Drew Senko's VIN decoder site.  The only thing weird I

What happened to Drew site.  I checked today and nothing.

>  > found is that I had a style code of 47).  Here is the Fisher info:
>  >
>  > 82 11B 3BN37 M 638087
>  > 13E 84L 80T
>  > NB1 NB2 B4772 L (? don't know whether L is on line 2 or 3, can't read
>  > my handwriting)
>

Paul wrote:

>  82 = 1982
>  11B = build date, 2nd (B) week of November (11), that would be of '81
>  3BN37 = Oldsmobile (3) Delta 88 (B) Royale (N) coupe (37)
>  M = Lansing plant
>  638087 = body built code
>  13E = interior trim code, on the newer cars, these never match my order
>  books.  They called the gray interior Slate Gray and the name of the cloth
>  is Winslow velour.  A 60/40 divided bench seat was standard in the
>  Brougham.
>  84L = paint, Charcoal Met. (84), lower (L)

What does "L" stand for?

>  80T = vinyl top code, Slate Gray
>  the remainder of the codes must be option codes, which I can't decode.

Anyone else what to stab at these?

>
>  Even though your plate says the car is a "plain" Royale, it is probably a
>  Brougham, which was technically considered an option package, even though

Yup. It is a Brougham.

>  it had it's own model code (3BY37) in the ordering book.  I ran across
>  this once before here on the list.

Is that a Y or an N?  Maybe I misread some of the numbers.

>
>  > Thanks in advance,
>  >
>  > Chris Sparks

Later all,

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:16:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 1983 Delta Royale Brougham question

Hi all,

I have another question.  I was driving home yesterday when I noticed
my low fuel light came on with me having more than half a tank of gas
still left in the car.  When I got home I turned the car off and
restarted it and the light stayed off.  What do you think caused the
light to mysteriously turn itself on?  My hypothesis is that maybe I
stopped the car a little to quickly, the gas in the tank relocated
itself thus causing a sensor to go indicating that the fuel was low.
The odd thing I thought is that if that were true, then why didn't the
sensor reset it self when the gas leveled out?

Oh well...

P.S.
I have been thinking about selling this car since it has no oomph.  If
I go midway on the gas pedal the car zips in first and then bogs down
into two and jumps to three and then eventually into four.  When I did
the 0-60 1001, 1002, ... 10xx test for speed it took 16 seconds.  When
you drive a car like the 68, it sours you to other cars.  Can there
be any easy mods to the car to improve what is currently in it.  If I
have to go to the trouble of a new engine or a new tranny, then I might
as well axe the car.  I wish I could find a car like my 77 C/S Brougham.
She could really haul.  Not a speed demon, however, decent for my
uses.  I think I remember doing an 8 second 0-60.  She had a 350 and
the best gas mileage was 15 mph.  I better stop.  I am getting
verclempt and getting schpilkas in my ganecticazoink (Sorry for any
misspellings) :-)

------------------------------

From: "SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK" <FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:03:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 83-84 H/O exhaust

Brad- The factory exhaust on the MCSS was the same diameter as the 442.
It was 2.25 id. I had an SS new. The Walker Dynomax system is the same 2.25
id. as is the Hooker. Either will work on your 442. How about the Walker GN
exhaust which exits like the factory 442's did?. The Hooker also exits like
the factory  442 did. Jegs wants $250 for the Hooker w/ Super Comps for
mufflers.




=============================================================================
Frank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:13:53 -0300
Subject: '70 Cutlass dash pad

Hi All,
I'm gathering the tools and donning the grubbies for a trip to the *yard*.
There is a '70 Cutlass with an excellent blue dash at a salvage yard near
me, and I was hoping to get some instruction on removing it. Actually all
I'm interested in is the dash pad, so if you need blue dash parts let me
know. Unfortunately the rest of the car has been canabalized. Any way, I
want to avoid learning how to remove a dash the hard way. Tips? Techniques?
Magic curse words?


TIA
Ray
70 Cutlass Conv

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:26:32 -0300
Subject: Ol' Toro now pessimistic :(

OL>I happen to notice that only the driver's side exhaust is smoking
OL>badly.  Wait, the pass. side isn't even blowing out exhaust :o  Uh, oh!
OL>Maybe that explains part of the rough idle :o  I look underneath, and see
no OL>noticable exhaust leaks (or no crossover to the other side, to make a
single OL>exhaust system - some people ~are~ strange, ya never know...) OL>
Wow, scratch that last part, I'm already logged in!  Ooooh! OL> OL>
Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu OL>             500
4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com OL>             Box 1255
| Montana State University-Northern OL>             Havre, Montana 59501  |
http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner OL>             "Rockit 1"            | '81
Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~ OL>             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS
455 OL>              "FAST FWD" (Soon)     | '67 Toronado 425 OL>
Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

Mice in the exhaust?

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:43:36 -0300
Subject: 72 Cutlass Suprere...what should I do?

OL>Ok, by now most of you know that I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme in decent
shape OL>setting in our salvage yard and I am debating what to do with it. The
body OL>and floors are great, frame great, the only rust is under the side
rear OL>windows. Interior needs a makeover. The car runs strong, has factory
duals, OL>an aftermarket Carter carb. etc. I am wanting to build me up a
mainly OL>strip/some street car to have for fun. Would it be wise to do it
with this OL>car or is it too valuable to put to torture as a drag queen ;-) I
would OL>probably go with a 72 Toro 455 engine and get it built up to 70 W-30
specs OL>or better. My other option is to sell the car, which if I do decide
to do OL>this I will be taking the car along with my 75 H/O to the Oldsmobile
OL>Nationals at Norwalk, Ohio this summer.  Suggestions? Opinions? OL>- - - -
- - - - - - - OL>Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since
5/95 OL>93 Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5, PEG2, TFX cat-back, Mobil 1(eng. &
diff.), OL>http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html OL>80 Olds 4-4-2 W-30: show
car... http://www.442.com/labay.html OL>75 Hurst/Olds W-25:project car.... OL>

Go ahead pull the stock drive train out stow it away. Drop the 455 in
and build it up. As great as  a W-30 is you can't beat technology put a
newer performance cam in it. With a cam, intake, carb, headers, small
stall, and a little more gear you shouldn't have any problems getting
into the 12s or at least low 13s. Or you could give me the car? (can't
hurt to ask)

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
Daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.FEITH.COM (Peter L. House)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:51:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new member

>
> Bill Reilly wrote:
>
> >I don't think there was a differnce between the 87 and 88 Cutlasses.  I
> >know that 87 was the last year for the 442, and that from 86 to 87 the
> >only differnce is the front fascia (sp) and head lights.  Someone correct
> >me if I'm wrong.
>
> Bill,
>       I believe the '88 Supreme Classic had a slightly different grill and
> tail-light trim than the '87.  Then again, I'm probably wrong, also. :-)
>
> Doug Newman
> Columbus, MS
> 1987 442
>
> http://www.442.com/newman.html
>
>
>
Does any body know where there are any pictures of the '88 RWD
Cutlass on the internet, I haven't seen any, that would clear up
any guesses. The '87 & '86 did have different front headers and the
front side markers don't blink like the '86 did, the rear lights
are the same '86 & '87.

Former '86 Cutlass Supreme
'87 Salon
Peter L. House
phouse@feith.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª644
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