To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #646


oldsmobile-digest            Sunday, 4 May 1997         Volume 01 : Number 646

88 Cutlass Supreme Classic
Re: Electrical Question
69 Cutlass
Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??
Re: Motor Mounts
Re: Calling out for 50's owners
Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??
Re: Motor Mounts
Saturday and the salvage lot :)
Junkyard find..
442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)
Re: warriors better tire makers ????
Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??
alternator position on 455
Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires
Re: warriors better tire makers ????
Re: alternator position on 455
Re: 69 Cutlass
Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??
Re: Junkyard find..
Re: alternator position on 455
Re: Calling out for 50's owners
Re: Re[2]: Valves
Subscribe oldsmobile
Re: alternator position on 455
Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires
Re:  425's
Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)
Re: 69 HURST DIE CAST
Re: 425's   (+ small V.C. reference)
Re: warriors better tire makers ????
Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires (non-olds)
Re: Re[2]: Valves
Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)
Toro Virus -- Re: warriors better tire makers ????
Re: warriors, Darwin, and rambling
Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom & Jodie Martin <tmartin@genevaonline.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:28:27 -0300
Subject: 88 Cutlass Supreme Classic

I saw a rusty silver 88 Cutlass Supreme Classic with chrome rallys and
t-tops this morning.

They are out there!

I am in south east Wisconsin.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme 307 "Y"

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:40:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Electrical Question

I also have a 66 98 convertible and know the wiring pretty well. The radio,
fan blower and power windows should not work when the key is "shut off".
'Course
it depends on what "shut off" means.

Follow me

This key switch when turned _all_the way counterclockwise has an accessory
position which will power these accessories. The ordinary "off" position
is one position clockwise from that. With the key in that position, the
accessories should not have power. After the "off" position there is the
"run" position, followed by the "start" position. If you're really suspicious
about the switch, you can turn the key all the way counterclockwise and use
a paper clip through the hole on the front of the switch to remove the key
mechanism. Then replace the switch. After 30 years of high amp use, these
wires are sometimes quesstionable.

Yes the 66 98 is a rare car, they made 4500 of them. If you're just starting,
feel free to ask me any questions you have. I've had my car for 15 years (and
I'm 33). I know lots of great fixes, modifications and information about this
and some of the other 1966 models.
cf

>I own a 1966 Olds Ninety-Eight Convertible.  I have found that many things
>such
>as the power windows, radio, fan blower, etc. still work when the key is shut
>off in the car.  I had the ignition switch checked and they said it was
>working
>fine.  When I asked one person about it, they said that's the way it was
>suppose
>to be because the key didn't shut things off (such as power windows) till a
>couple of years later.  I have just started working on the car and don't
>have a
>whole lot of knowledge about it yet, but that just didn't seem right.  Could
>there be anything else wrong besides the ignition switch.  Also, is a 1966
>Olds
>'98 Convertible a rare car.  No matter how hard I try I haven't been able to
>find even a picture of another one.  Help Please...
>
>One of the Schaack's

------------------------------

From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:35:40 -0300
Subject: 69 Cutlass

<HTML><BODY>
Thanks Robert &amp; Gary for the advice. Although I wish I could do everything
I want at once, It just is'nt going to happen this summer. So the Preformer
Intake is on order and&nbsp; I'm going to look for a Carb. this week, but
the cam is going to have to wait.
<BR>I think it was Robert that said to jet the Carb. for a 69 W-31? Can anyone
tell me the spec's for this setup?
<BR>Thanks Again
<BR>Pat McDermott
<BR>69 Cutlass 'S'
<BR>
<BR>P.S.
<BR>Is there anyway I can get more Info about my car. Like build date, ª of
cutlass' built in 69, how many were Convertable? 350? 'S'. Is my car common?
<BR>I really don't know, I don't see many around here. Not that I care because
I love my Olds.
<BR>Vinª
<BR>336679M434242

</BODY>
</HTML>

------------------------------

From: "Steve Reed" <ssreed@ibm.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:48:10 -0300
Subject: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??

*** This is not an Oldsmobile Query but a GM product none the less and I
figured my fellow friends could help out ***  I recently (2 days ago
purchased a 1988 Pontiac Bonneville from an old man, who rarely drove the
car since his wife died (Wednesday 4/30/97).  After 2 days of great driving
perorfmance, the car began to skip & pop, and then die at an idle.  I first
thought fuel problem, bad gas I just filled up with (The car had a 1/2 tank
when I got it, and I ran it almost empty (1/4) untill I refueled.  I would
then restart the car (without any probnlem) and continue to next stop
light.  The car continued to do this to work.  On the way home.  The car @
1/2 tank of gas now stopped running completely and would not even attempt
to run.  It would turn over but nothing from there on.
I plan on draining the tank, and sloshing good fuel and re-draining the
tank.  Is there a product on the market that will Eat/dissolve the gelled
fuel that there may be in the system??

**Note:  This only started happening at 1/2 tank of fuel)

  My first idea was that the car sat for a while & that the original fuel
may have gelled (sp??) and clogged fuel filter sock (in tank) and filter.
I talked to the guy I got it from and he said that he had GM replace the
fuel pump & sock about a year ago (I don't know why, actually my dad
asked).
  Once I get the car home I will replace the fuel filter (Yes I know it's
under psi), and flush fuel lines.

Does ANYONE have any suggestions??  I would appreciate a reply via E-Mail
as well as the list as I am on digest mode here.

P.S.  Does anyone know where I can obtain a used service manual??  I
contacted the manufacturer for them and they want $90.00 for a new one!!!
I HATE chilton's with a passion and would like to have GM manual.

Steve Reed
Austin, TX
1970 4-4-2 Ragtop

------------------------------

From: "James Hopkins" <paradise@interl.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:04:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Motor Mounts

I am also trying to figure out the whole quandry concerning motor mounts

I recently visited a friend of mine who has 4 442's (2 69's 1 70 and 1 72).
 He was an Oldsmobile Dealer for 30 yrs.  After an extensive search through
many Olds books we came to the conclusion that there is no difference
between frame mounts for the 1969 Cutlass for big block and small block
motors.

An easy way to tell is if the engine goes right in and the fan is centered
within the fan shroud then the motor mounts and frame mounts are correct.
Note that there is a difference between big block and small block motor
mounts.

I would welcome any comments and part numbers/source if I am wrong.  I
don't want to put the wrong pieces in my 69 Olds Cutlass Convertable (ie:
prove me wrong ... please).

I have found several sources for 455 frame mounts (all from 70 - 72 Olds
442's).  They want from $80 to $150 per pair.  It is to bad there is so
much greed in the world.

Hopper

- ----------
> From: WMACHINES@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Motor Mounts
> Date: Sunday, April 27, 1997 8:24 PM
>
> In a message dated 97-04-27 18:55:16 EDT, you write:
>
> << After reading about motor mounts for the past few months on and off
I'm
>  confused as ever..  I have a 1968 442 with no motor and no mounts on the
>  frame for the rubber mounts to bolt to.. Question is can I use 68-72
>  frame mounts, and is there is a difference in engine location between
>  small block and big block rubber motor mounts.  Which would be best to
>  use so the motoer sits right for headers?
>   >>OK, let me clear this up for you.    small Block and big block olds
frame
> mounts
> mount in the same position.  The difference is in the size of the frame
> mount.  Both BB and Sb have two bolt holes on top and on on the bottom.
Now
> this applies to
> 68-72 A body cars (Cutlass's)  as long as you match bb motor mount to bb
> frame mount and sb motor mount to sb frame mount, no problems will arise.
 If
> you need the frame mount described in further detail, call me after 4:00
> eastern time and ask for Mark, i will describe the differences.
>
> W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
> 72 442 W-30
> 313 336 8135

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:32:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Calling out for 50's owners

At 09:44 AM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Hey 50's onwers,
>
>        WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?  I feel like I'm the only one on the list that
>owns and older car.  The list certainly doesn't see its fair share of older
>owners.  I have a '53 Super 88 and rarely see anything on any car near that
>time period.  I would just like to see a little more involved in all of the
>massive mail that goes around.
>
>                                In wonderment,
>                                               Youngin'
>                                                '53 Super 88

Hey, I agree, but the problem is that it's hard enough to find ~new~ (60's &
70's) Olds's around anymore, and the older ones are getting to be truly
rare.  I own a '57 Buick, and I think it's just the coolest thing ever.
It's a complete project car, however, and has yet to be really started.
Someday I'll find another one for parts, and have time to make it a runner
again, but until then, I have to be satisfied living in the 60's :)  Good
luck with meeting the other lucky ones with true classics still going, I do
admire that old steel!  :)

As for the upholstery, maybe keep trying different upholstery shops.  When
we did that sort of work, we had books upon books of old fabric samples.
(That stuff is ~long~ gone to me, now) Perhaps some outfit specializing in
custom interiors will still have some sources?  Good luck, regardless.



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:55:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??

>**Note:  This only started happening at 1/2 tank of fuel)
>
>  My first idea was that the car sat for a while & that the original fuel
>may have gelled (sp??) and clogged fuel filter sock (in tank) and filter.
>I talked to the guy I got it from and he said that he had GM replace the
>fuel pump & sock about a year ago (I don't know why, actually my dad
>asked).
>  Once I get the car home I will replace the fuel filter (Yes I know it's
>under psi), and flush fuel lines.
>
>Does ANYONE have any suggestions??  I would appreciate a reply via E-Mail
>as well as the list as I am on digest mode here.
>

Steve, I think you'd be correct in changing the fuel filter first.  It seems
like a safe first step, especially if there's any question of it's quality.
As for the fuel "gelling" up, I don't think that'd be a major concern.
(Usually gelling refers to a diesel phenomenon when it get really cold)  I
just started a car that hadn't moved in eight years.  The gas still burns
OK, it's just not the best stuff.  I imagine the fuel injection would be
more susceptible to gumming up, but it depends on how long this "while" was
that the car sat for.  I'd try running some injector cleaner through it, and
don't forget to reset the ECM.  Often, if something happens to make a
computer controlled car run poorly, the computer will try to correct (Block
Learn/Fuel Trim functions) and compensate.  Once the problem is fixed, the
computer may still retain the faulty calibrations.  To correct this, you
need to reset the ECM by either disconnecting the battery (neg term.) or by
pulling the ECM fuse.  Either way, leave it powerred down for at least
thirty seconds.  Dustin had this happen on his sister's Cutlass last
weekend, he can readily attest to the difference it makes.  This also erases
any stored ECM diagnostic codes, so read those first, just in case. (Jumper
A to B on the ALDL Connector)  Good luck.  If you need help deciphering the
codes you find (code 12 is normal) feel free to ask.  Between us, we should
all be able to come up with a close approximation.  I don't know about used
manuals, but I've got a '93 Pont. Gran Prix manual that seems to be close
enough for many code related issues.  Good luck :)


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:55:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Motor Mounts

All conventional Olds Big and Small block motor mounts will interchange on
the blocks, as far as I'm aware.  There are six mounting holes (three per
side, two used per application) to choose from.  In the late 60's early 70's
they had the single bolt going down to the frame mount, somewhere along the
line they switched to the crossbolt that runs front to back.  I'm not sure
when that change took place, or how it relates to BB vs SB, but I hope it
helps a little bit.  My '81 came with the small block (~very~ small) and the
455 bolted right up.  No changes necessary, motor mount wise.





At 04:04 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I am also trying to figure out the whole quandry concerning motor mounts
>
>I recently visited a friend of mine who has 4 442's (2 69's 1 70 and 1 72).
> He was an Oldsmobile Dealer for 30 yrs.  After an extensive search through
>many Olds books we came to the conclusion that there is no difference
>between frame mounts for the 1969 Cutlass for big block and small block
>motors.
>
>An easy way to tell is if the engine goes right in and the fan is centered
>within the fan shroud then the motor mounts and frame mounts are correct.
>Note that there is a difference between big block and small block motor
>mounts.
>
>I would welcome any comments and part numbers/source if I am wrong.  I
>don't want to put the wrong pieces in my 69 Olds Cutlass Convertable (ie:
>prove me wrong ... please).
>
>I have found several sources for 455 frame mounts (all from 70 - 72 Olds
>442's).  They want from $80 to $150 per pair.  It is to bad there is so
>much greed in the world.
>
>Hopper
>
>----------
>> From: WMACHINES@aol.com
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: Motor Mounts
>> Date: Sunday, April 27, 1997 8:24 PM
>>
>> In a message dated 97-04-27 18:55:16 EDT, you write:
>>
>> << After reading about motor mounts for the past few months on and off
>I'm
>>  confused as ever..  I have a 1968 442 with no motor and no mounts on the
>>  frame for the rubber mounts to bolt to.. Question is can I use 68-72
>>  frame mounts, and is there is a difference in engine location between
>>  small block and big block rubber motor mounts.  Which would be best to
>>  use so the motoer sits right for headers?
>>   >>OK, let me clear this up for you.    small Block and big block olds
>frame
>> mounts
>> mount in the same position.  The difference is in the size of the frame
>> mount.  Both BB and Sb have two bolt holes on top and on on the bottom.
>Now
>> this applies to
>> 68-72 A body cars (Cutlass's)  as long as you match bb motor mount to bb
>> frame mount and sb motor mount to sb frame mount, no problems will arise.
> If
>> you need the frame mount described in further detail, call me after 4:00
>> eastern time and ask for Mark, i will describe the differences.
>>
>> W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
>> 72 442 W-30
>> 313 336 8135
>
>

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:07:32 -0300
Subject: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

     Went out to the local lot today, but instead of bringing my normal
toolbox, I brought two items.  A camera and an extra roll of film.  I shot
pics of many of the Olds's they had, and all that I thought might be of
interest to anyone here.  When I get them developed, I'll scan them in, and
put them up on a page for all to see.  I also made arrangements to take home
that certain '66 Toro they have sitting out there :)  There's a '67 and a
'68 or 9 Delmont 88 out there, the newer one being a two door.  There's an
early 60's Dynamic 88 (can't remember year)  A couple 77 Cutlass 2 doors, a
76 4 door (Shot these mainly for grill ID purposes, some have mentioned that
it might be useful) an '80 Cutlass, and a few others.  Oh, a '71 Cutlass, no
front clip.  And a '79 Toro, black.  Body not bad.  Looks like it used to be
a really sharp car.  Took a ton of pic's of the 66 Toro, too, but I decided
to buy it.  I will most likely be parting it out, though, as there is a lot
of it I need on the '67.  No engine in it, but Tranny's there.  Front clip,
Doors, and Dragster steering wheel are ~mine~!!!  Much of the rest will be
up for grabs, for anyone interested.

Like I said, I'll get pics up, soon, but here's a quick primer, at any
rate:)  No other news on the '67 Toro or the Rockit, but I did find a "71"
455 with C heads/F block.  Marked as 71, anyway.  Cracked block.  Might end
up taking it home someday, as I seem to need a 455 crank and possibly
rods... "C" heads would be a nice bonus :)



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth G. Holland Jr." <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:47:57 -0300
Subject: Junkyard find..

I found a "D" block with "B" heads sitting in the weeds at a junkyard
near me.  The stamp on the head is N________S.. I'm thinking it's
a 1966 425 out of a Starfire.  The Old's FAQ talks about the 442's and
Toro motors having larger valves.. wouldnt a Starfire also have large
valves?

Thanks,
Ken

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:05:54 -0300
Subject: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

The following is a list of 64-72 Olds Cutlass/442, 66-69 Toronado parts for
sale.

**** New stuff to list****
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $50.00
69 Cutlass RH Grille (N.O.S.) $60.00 ea
71-72 Turn Signal Lens (N.O.S.)  $90.00 pr
71-75  Cutlass Fender Emblems (N.O.S.)  $19.50 ea
70-72 Cutlass/442 LH Fenders (N.O.S.) $400.00 ea
66-72 SSI Center Caps (N.O.S.) $40.00 ea
68-75 SSII/III Center Caps (N.O.S.) $40.00 ea
71-72 Stone Shields (N.O.S.) $50.00 ea
71-72 Headlight Housings (plastic) (N.O.S.) $100.00 pr
71-72 Cutlass Rear Bumpers (N.O.S.) $380.00 ea
72 442 RH Grille (N.O.S.) $300.00
71 Cutlass Supreme Grilles (nice)  pot metal  $125.00 pr
71 Cutlass S Griles (very nice)  $110.00 pr
68 Cutlass/442 Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
72 Cutlass/442 Owners Manual  $7.00
70 Oldsmobile Options Folder  $5.00
66 Cutlass Grille (nice used)  $40.00
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Set (black, mint) $50.00 pr
70  12 Bolt Posi Ch*vy Rear 3.73:1 (Posi rebuilt)  $500.00
68-72 Rear Hood Molding  $40.00 ea
68-72 Cowl/Windshield mouldings  $25.00ea
66-? Toronado Front Brake Drum  $15.00
66-69 Toronado Interior Moldings (Ivory)  $5.00 ea
66-69 Toronado LH & RH Rear Side Windows  $30.00 ea
66-68 Toronado Back Glass  $40.00
68-69 Toronado Headlight Vacuum Module  $40.00
68 Toronado Air Cleaner Pie Tin  $5.00
66-68 Toronado Trailer Hitch Assm.  $20.00

64 Cutlass/442
RH Headlight Bezel  $25.00
Front Bumper Core  $50.00
Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea
F-85 Fender Emblem (nice)  $10.00
V-8 Emblem  $5.00

66 Cutlass/442
66-69 SSI Wheels  $40.00 ea
Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr
Front Grille  $40.00
LH Rear side molding  $10.00
Glove Box Door  $35.00
Front Bumper Cores  $65.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $65.00 ea
Rear Window Molding Set  $75.00 set
A-Pillar Chrome Moldings  $15.00 ea
F-85/Cutlass Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea

67 Cutlass/442
N.O.S. Cutlass Headlight Bezels  $130.00 pr
Used Cutlass Headlight Bezels  $65.00 pr
Supreme/442 Side Moldings  $15.00 ea piece
Rear Window Molding Set  $75.00 set
Front Bumper Cores  $65.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $65.00 ea
A Pillar Moldings  $15.00 ea
Glove Box Door  $35.00
(2) Deluxe Full Wheel Covers  $20.00 ea

68 Cutlass/442
68-72 Cutlass S LH Rear Side Glass (clear)  $45.00
442 Fender Emblem (1 set)  $20.00
442 Grille Emblem  $20.00
Headlight Plastics  $100.00 pr
Hood Hinge Set  $50.00 pr
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set

69 Cutlass/442
442 Grilles (nice)  $180.00 pr
69 442 Rear Bumper (nice)  $130.00
Hood Tongue  $15.00 ea
Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
Hood Louver Chrome  $40.00 pr
Hood Louver Moldiings  $40.00 pr
Windshield Molding Sets  $65.00 set
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set

70 Cutlass/442
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 5)  $200.00 / (set of 4)  $160.00
S Hood Chrome Grilles  $40.00 pr
Hood Grille Moldings  $40.00 pr
Hood Tongue  $25.00 ea
Cutlass Supreme RH Door (rust free)  $110.00
"S" Black Pillared Coupe Door Panels (good cond)  $45.00 pr
Trunk Edge Moldings  $35.00 ea
Windshield Molding Sets  $85.00 set
Short Wheel Moldings  $100.00 set 4
Rear Upper Control Arms  $50.00 pr
Front Bumper Core  $100.00
Cutlass Rear Bumper Core  $100.00
442 Coupe Trunk Lid (little rust)  $75.00
Black A/C and Non A/C Dash Pads  $100.00 ea
(1) Blue Auto Shift Console  $125.00 (w/shifter)

P.S.  We have more parts in stock, and more coming!  The reproduction 70-72
Cutlass/442 Auto Trans Console Indicators are here. They look great.
$24.00 ea. plus $3.00 shipping.  We have also reproduced the 63 Starfire
console shift lens. Beautiful reproduction. $35.00 plus $3.00 shipping.  We
are getting ready to tool up for the 70-72 Hurst Dual Gate shift lens for
reproduction soon.

Jim Chermack
'70 SX W-32
'72 442
'86 Ninety Eight
'94 Cutlass Supreme
'96 C-1500
Virginia  Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: Aaron D Eoff <sheep542@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:28:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

At 08:07 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
)  A couple 77 Cutlass 2 doors, a

Charlie,

What color were the 2 77 Cutlass 2 doors?? Would love to get some parts off
of them. Were any of them with the center console on the floor? CAn't wait
to see the pixs!!

>
>
>             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
>             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
>             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
>             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
>                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!
>
>
>

Aaron D Eoff
   ///////  ///////
       //       //
      //       //
     //       //
    //       //  'twas a goodyear

1977 Olds Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:16:50 -0300
Subject: Re: warriors better tire makers ????

All that historical - ? - came from a tire question?  And we thought the
Toro virus was bad.

Much hand clapping here for Wiz's reply.

Back to Oldsmobiles.........

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:56:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??

At 04:48 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>*** This is not an Oldsmobile Query but a GM product none the less and I
>figured my fellow friends could help out ***  I recently (2 days ago
>purchased a 1988 Pontiac Bonneville from an old man, who rarely drove the
>car since his wife died (Wednesday 4/30/97).  After 2 days of great driving
>perorfmance, the car began to skip & pop, and then die at an idle.  I first
>thought fuel problem, bad gas I just filled up with (The car had a 1/2 tank
>when I got it, and I ran it almost empty (1/4) untill I refueled.  I would
>then restart the car (without any probnlem) and continue to next stop
>light.  The car continued to do this to work.  On the way home.  The car @
>1/2 tank of gas now stopped running completely and would not even attempt
>to run.  It would turn over but nothing from there on.
>I plan on draining the tank, and sloshing good fuel and re-draining the
>tank.  Is there a product on the market that will Eat/dissolve the gelled
>fuel that there may be in the system??
>
>**Note:  This only started happening at 1/2 tank of fuel)
>
>  My first idea was that the car sat for a while & that the original fuel
>may have gelled (sp??) and clogged fuel filter sock (in tank) and filter.
>I talked to the guy I got it from and he said that he had GM replace the
>fuel pump & sock about a year ago (I don't know why, actually my dad
>asked).
>  Once I get the car home I will replace the fuel filter (Yes I know it's
>under psi), and flush fuel lines.
>
>Does ANYONE have any suggestions??  I would appreciate a reply via E-Mail
>as well as the list as I am on digest mode here.
>
>P.S.  Does anyone know where I can obtain a used service manual??  I
>contacted the manufacturer for them and they want $90.00 for a new one!!!
>I HATE chilton's with a passion and would like to have GM manual.
>
>Steve Reed
>Austin, TX
>1970 4-4-2 Ragtop
>
>

With a stop/run/stop situation, the absolutely first thing to do is replace
the fuel filter.  On a GM car there will usually be one at the carburetor,
on carbuerated engines, and somewhere in the fuel systems on fuel injected
systems.  They cause the sort of problem that you describe, are easy to
change, and cost very little.

Gasoline will never 'jell.'  It will evaporate leaving a bit of a varnish
like residue.  I have no idea what this new 'reformualted' gasoline has in
it, so I'm talking about the older kind.

There are several sources of shop manuals, and some of the other guys that
have aquired them can help you there.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Mike Lowe <mlowe@pop.erols.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:06:08 -0300
Subject: alternator position on 455

I just bought a 1968 442 convertible that has been much modified (455
automatic that still has a clutch pedal).  I haven't figured out exactly
what I have yet, but my first problem is the alternator belt broke on the
drive home.  I replaced it and the other (short) belt broke.  When I opened
the hood I saw the alternator belt (long) is about to break again!  It looks
like the belt is lined up correctly to me but now I'm confused.

The alternator is on the driver side , with the power steering pump below.
I'm not an expert on 455's but I thought that the alternator was usually on
the other side and the power steering pump was usually mounted high.  Am I
mistaken? How many belts should I have and how should they be routed?  Could
the alternator belt get destroyed for some reason because the other belt
broke?

I have the feeling this is the first of many questions.  I would only rate
myself about a 3 on a 10 scale as a mechanic, so I might be missing
something obvious.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mike Lowe
68 442 Convertible
72 442 Hardtop

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:08:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires

On Sat, 3 May 1997, Monson wrote:
> I'm amazed at the price of whitewalls.  I have a '53 Super 88 and wish I
> could get some good whitewalls for a descent price.  Does anyone know of
> any good places to try?  I also have another question.  I was once at an
> auction down in Las Vegas when I came across a handout on how to customize
> whitewall size.  Has anyone seen or heard about anything like this?  I've
> looked in a few books about it and have never found anything on it.

Re. the custom whitewalls, I know that tires used to be made with the
entire sidewall (or most of it, anyway) consisting of white rubber
covered by black. Whitewalls were/are made by removing a section of the
black outer rubber, so theoretically you could remove as much of that as
you wanted to get a customized whitewall. Exactly *how* you would do
that, however, is another question, and I don't have the answer to that.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:19:21 -0300
Subject: Re: warriors better tire makers ????

James Thingwold wrote:
>
> All that historical - ? - came from a tire question?

Stay tuned.  Coming next week: "Creationism vs Darwinism
and it's relationship to clogged fuel filters."   ;)

> And we thought the Toro virus was bad.

It is.  You should know.  ...and Charley.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:18:09 -0300
Subject: Re: alternator position on 455

At 10:06 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I just bought a 1968 442 convertible that has been much modified (455
>automatic that still has a clutch pedal).  I haven't figured out exactly
>what I have yet, but my first problem is the alternator belt broke on the
>drive home.  I replaced it and the other (short) belt broke.  When I opened
>the hood I saw the alternator belt (long) is about to break again!  It looks
>like the belt is lined up correctly to me but now I'm confused.
>
>The alternator is on the driver side , with the power steering pump below.
>I'm not an expert on 455's but I thought that the alternator was usually on
>the other side and the power steering pump was usually mounted high.  Am I
>mistaken? How many belts should I have and how should they be routed?  Could
>the alternator belt get destroyed for some reason because the other belt
broke? > >I have the feeling this is the first of many questions.  I would
only rate >myself about a 3 on a 10 scale as a mechanic, so I might be missing
>something obvious. > >Thanks in advance for your help. > >Mike Lowe >68 442
Convertible >72 442 Hardtop > >

Your parts are where they belong.  The alternator is high on the drivers
side, with the p/s pump blow it.  The a/d is high on the pass side with the
a.i.r. pump below it if the vehicle has one.

As to the belts, it is unlikely that the loss of one belt would cause
additional strain on another.  One reason belts brake is that they dry out,
and become brittle, and in short order disintegrate.  Miss alingment may
cause a belt of wear out pre-maturely.  But it wears at the edges, and you
can see this start to happen, even with new belts if the mis-alignment is
severe.

Put on new belts of the correct size.  Autozone and the like will often sell
you a 7/16" belt of the proper diameter, because the car should have a 1/2"
belt.  Get the correct sizes of belts.  Also, if the car has been sitting
for any time, replace the hoses too, they deterioriate with age too.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:19:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Cutlass

At 02:35 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I want at once, It just is'nt going to happen this summer. So the Preformer
>Intake is on order and&nbsp; I'm going to look for a Carb. this week, but
>the cam is going to have to wait.
>I think it was Robert that said to jet the Carb. for a 69 W-31? Can anyone
>tell me the spec's for this setup?

Well, if you are not changing the camshaft, then start with the jets for an
automatic 350/4-bbl car (these specs can be found on the Toro web page,
under First Generation, Carburetors, or I believe in the FAQ). That's what
cam you probably have in there now anyway (only the 4-bbl stick cars had a
hotter camshaft).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:00:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Stalling - Not Restarting / Fuel Problem??

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> At 04:48 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >*** This is not an Oldsmobile Query but a GM product none the less and I
> >figured my fellow friends could help out ***  I recently (2 days ago
> >purchased a 1988 Pontiac Bonneville from an old man, who rarely drove the
> >car since his wife died (Wednesday 4/30/97).  After 2 days of great driving
> >perorfmance, the car began to skip & pop, and then die at an idle.  I first
> >thought fuel problem, bad gas I just filled up with (The car had a 1/2 tank
> >when I got it, and I ran it almost empty (1/4) untill I refueled.  I would
> >then restart the car (without any probnlem) and continue to next stop
> >light.  The car continued to do this to work.  On the way home.  The car @
> >1/2 tank of gas now stopped running completely and would not even attempt
> >to run.  It would turn over but nothing from there on.
> >I plan on draining the tank, and sloshing good fuel and re-draining the
> >tank.  Is there a product on the market that will Eat/dissolve the gelled
> >fuel that there may be in the system??
> >
> >**Note:  This only started happening at 1/2 tank of fuel)
> >
> >  My first idea was that the car sat for a while & that the original fuel
> >may have gelled (sp??) and clogged fuel filter sock (in tank) and filter.
> >I talked to the guy I got it from and he said that he had GM replace the
> >fuel pump & sock about a year ago (I don't know why, actually my dad
> >asked).
> >  Once I get the car home I will replace the fuel filter (Yes I know it's
> >under psi), and flush fuel lines.
> >
> >Does ANYONE have any suggestions??  I would appreciate a reply via E-Mail
> >as well as the list as I am on digest mode here.
> >
> >P.S.  Does anyone know where I can obtain a used service manual??  I
> >contacted the manufacturer for them and they want $90.00 for a new one!!!
> >I HATE chilton's with a passion and would like to have GM manual.
> >
> >Steve Reed
> >Austin, TX
> >1970 4-4-2 Ragtop
> >
> >
>
> With a stop/run/stop situation, the absolutely first thing to do is replace
> the fuel filter.  On a GM car there will usually be one at the carburetor,
> on carbuerated engines, and somewhere in the fuel systems on fuel injected
> systems.  They cause the sort of problem that you describe, are easy to
> change, and cost very little.
>
> Gasoline will never 'jell.'  It will evaporate leaving a bit of a varnish
> like residue.  I have no idea what this new 'reformualted' gasoline has in
> it, so I'm talking about the older kind.
>
> There are several sources of shop manuals, and some of the other guys that
> have aquired them can help you there.
>
> The Wiz
If it is poping and missing it sound like an egnition problem. timing?
cap, rotor, maybe your plugs? doesnt sound fuel related unless your
choke is messed up(on) that could do it also... I'd start with the
choke.
Marty

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:15:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard find..

On Sat, 3 May 1997, Kenneth G. Holland Jr. wrote:

> I found a "D" block with "B" heads sitting in the weeds at a junkyard
> near me.  The stamp on the head is N________S.. I'm thinking it's
> a 1966 425 out of a Starfire.  The Old's FAQ talks about the 442's and
> Toro motors having larger valves.. wouldnt a Starfire also have large
> valves?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken

N...S on the head shows as a Starfire motor in the '66 shop manual.  But I
don't think the Starfire engine has bigger valves in the head.  Super
Rocket 425s have a 10.25:1 compression ratio and the Starfire was 10.5.
This was accomplished by the use of different pistons.  I believe the
Starfire and Toronado used the same pistons, but only the Toronado had
larger valves.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe (Aquamarine)
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (Sunfire Yellow)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:36:56 -0300
Subject: Re: alternator position on 455

At 09:06 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I just bought a 1968 442 convertible that has been much modified (455
>automatic that still has a clutch pedal).  I haven't figured out exactly

Ah, put back in the 4-speed! That'd be a fun-to-drive car.

>what I have yet, but my first problem is the alternator belt broke on the
>drive home.  I replaced it and the other (short) belt broke.  When I opened
>the hood I saw the alternator belt (long) is about to break again!  It looks
>like the belt is lined up correctly to me but now I'm confused.

Double-check this with a straight-edge. If the car has been modifed, things
may not line up properly, even if they look ok to the eye.

>The alternator is on the driver side , with the power steering pump below.
>I'm not an expert on 455's but I thought that the alternator was usually on
>the other side and the power steering pump was usually mounted high.  Am I

That would be on the non-A/C 400's and 425's before 1968. 1968 and after,
the PS pump is mounted low. Oh, and the alternator position on Olds cars
varied depending on whether it had A/C or not.

>mistaken? How many belts should I have and how should they be routed?  Could
>the alternator belt get destroyed for some reason because the other belt
broke?

Possible. I'd still check the alignment more accurately than by eye,
however. Also, this should be obvious, but don't *overtighten* the belts
either.

>I have the feeling this is the first of many questions.  I would only rate
>myself about a 3 on a 10 scale as a mechanic, so I might be missing
>something obvious.

With a much-modified car, you'll have the opportunity to encounter all sorts
of "learning experiences". Lots of good helpful people here with lots of
knowledge. Just give a holler if you've got any questions.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:36:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Calling out for 50's owners

At 08:44 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey 50's onwers,
>
>        WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?  I feel like I'm the only one on the list that

Boy, you must have joined in the last month or so, huh? Somebody asked this
question a couple months back, and then 75% of the daily posting consisted
of other early-Olds owners agreeing that there were no other early-Olds
owners on the list posting questions...

I guess the old-Olds owners have already figured out all their problems, and
therefore don't need to ask questions... ;)

Oh, and about the possible division of this list into separate ones for
appropriate eras, it just occurred to me that a neat division could be as
follows:

Real Old Cars (up to 1948)
Early Rocket V-8 cars (with engines from the 303/324/371/394 engine family)
"Modern" RWD Olds cars (from '65 with the full-size, but starting in '61 for
the Cutlass)
Transverse FWD cars (1980 Omega up to today)
Toronado (of course, in a class all by itself; besides, we already have our
own list for dealing with our "special" problems... ;)

So how's that for an arbitrary set of divisions (no worse than the others
proposed, I'd imagine).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:19:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Valves

GM has gone to S/S exaust valves in their 5.7 V8's. I have not seen
> >>much guide wear in these engines I wonder if this is why?
> >>Walter
> >>
> >>
> >Basically, the S/S valve has higher heat resistant properties and is
more
> >resistant to mechanical stresses and strains than the carbon steel
valve.
> >
> >
> I'm sorry guys I don't understand this one, at least not totally.  I will
> agree to the heat conductivity will be lower in S.S. but I'm a bit
> dis-agreeable about what happens to it.  I think that the lower heat
> condicutivity would only cause it to require a longer time to come up to
> temperature, and would not decrease the absolute temperature.  Also it
would
> decrease the heat bleed off to the oil (that's where it ultimately
goes)(as
> it will give up the heat harder as well).  Unless for some obtuse reason
it
> causes more to exit from the exhaust than the carbon steel valve, which
> would divert that component to the oil.
Some of it would also go into the water since water runs fairly close to
the seat and guide.
The exaust guides on the b/b chevy are water cooled and must be sealed if
removed and replaced. I  have never cut a Olds head apart to see how it is
made in this respect.
>
> I'm hard pressed to believe that a valve made of either matieral would
not
> be at the same ultimate temperature in the same engine after they was at
> operating temperature.  And this of course assumes everything else is the
same.

Ok this makes sence but wouldnt the guide stay cooler anyway if the S/S
gives off less heat?

> The principal components of S.S. are iron, chrome, nickle, and carbon.
> These ingrediants MAY have more natural lubricating properties when run
> against cast iron (the usual makeup up of the head and guides) than
carbon
> steel which is only iron and carbon.
Maybe thats why they last longer
>
> This arena is going to take a lot of thinking on my part, and I give it
some.
>
> So those not so metallurigally challenged, please expand this post.

I don't claim to understand all of it either. I know how to fix em but I
dont always understand exactly why they do or do not give good service, but
If they dont I am always curious as to why. The earlier S/B Chevys were
fairly hard on guides but these new ones seem to last forever. If this is
caused by the valve material either because of the heat thing or the
lubricating qualitys then retro-fitting S/S valves in the older heads would
be a good idea.  Of course GM might have changed something that isnt
obivous like the water jackets inside the head or the amount of nickel in
the cast iron. I realise we have gotten away from Olds content but if they
help one engine they would help another, and some of the mid 70's Olds had
chevy engines in them anyway.
Walter

------------------------------

From: Midn Ronnie D Merrill <m984488@nadn.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:28:46 -0300
Subject: Subscribe oldsmobile

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:32:02 -0300
Subject: Re: alternator position on 455

Mike Lowe wrote:
>
> I just bought a 1968 442 convertible that has been much modified (455
> automatic that still has a clutch pedal).  I haven't figured out exactly
> what I have yet, but my first problem is the alternator belt broke on the
> drive home.  I replaced it and the other (short) belt broke.  When I opened
> the hood I saw the alternator belt (long) is about to break again!  It looks
> like the belt is lined up correctly to me but now I'm confused.
>
> The alternator is on the driver side , with the power steering pump below.
> I'm not an expert on 455's but I thought that the alternator was usually on
> the other side and the power steering pump was usually mounted high.  Am I
> mistaken? How many belts should I have and how should they be routed?  Could
> the alternator belt get destroyed for some reason because the other belt
broke? > > I have the feeling this is the first of many questions.  I would
only rate > myself about a 3 on a 10 scale as a mechanic, so I might be
missing > something obvious. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike
Lowe


Mike,

You may have an AC car.  The AC compressor is on the passenger's side &
the alternator is switched to the driver's side.  Double check those
pulley alignments, proper V-belts for the size pulley grooves, & the
matching pulley groove sizes from balancer to alternator.

Don't feel alone on the end of that scale.  Possibly if enough 3's & 2's
can get together, we can make a 10!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:37:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> On Sat, 3 May 1997, Monson wrote:
> > I'm amazed at the price of whitewalls.  I have a '53 Super 88 and wish I
> > could get some good whitewalls for a descent price.  Does anyone know of
> > any good places to try?  I also have another question.  I was once at an
> > auction down in Las Vegas when I came across a handout on how to customize
> > whitewall size.  Has anyone seen or heard about anything like this?  I've
> > looked in a few books about it and have never found anything on it.
>
> Re. the custom whitewalls, I know that tires used to be made with the
> entire sidewall (or most of it, anyway) consisting of white rubber
> covered by black. Whitewalls were/are made by removing a section of the
> black outer rubber, so theoretically you could remove as much of that as
> you wanted to get a customized whitewall. Exactly *how* you would do
> that, however, is another question, and I don't have the answer to that.
>
> Greg Beaulieu

Greg,

I have seen this done on bias tires by using a motor to turn the
tire/wheel while a blade is fixed lathe-like on a pedistal to cut the
black off the sidewall.  It worked just fine.  The problem today might
be that radial tires have such a flexible side-wall that this isn't so
easily done.

Included in this process is a white rubberized paint to cover the
whitewalls smoothly.  A very sharp blade is also needed so as not to
scuff the white rubber.  It must be cut very cleanly.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:42:19 -0300
Subject: Re:  425's

In my Setting the Pace book, I noted that there is an optional higher HP
425 listed for '67 Delta & Delmont's - is there a reference to this on the
Olds FAQ or does someone know how I might see if I have this 425 in my Delta?

I've driven a whole lotta cars in my life and my 425 runs HARD,  I mean it
has quite a bit of power.  Now I noted its rated with 300+ horsepower, but
I'm serious that this thing is FAST for its  size.  I've driven many big
blocks with this same ratio HP and this thing just has more ba*ls then
seems normal.

No I'm not having drag racing flashbacks - the Toro virus cleared those
right up.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:36:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

Charley - if your REALLY going to part out that '66, could I please put
dibs (& $) on a front pass wheel well molding if its in decent shape, rear
view mirror & horn button?  Please Please Please?  Oh and if it has a clock
in the dash I'd take that too.

Let me know about these things, they're all I need at the moment for my new
'baby'.
OHHHHH, and also is there a rear pass wheel well molding on that Delmont -
'67?


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:13:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 HURST DIE CAST

I filled out the details  below have fun!

Jeff Stanish
69 H/O Frame Off Resto in progress



On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Chris Matthes wrote:

> I know a lot of you out there have the Ertl 69 H/O die cast, and i just
> bought it.  I think it is a great replica, but, being the scale auto
> enthusiast that i am, I had to take it apart and detail it.  Can anyone out
> there give me the details i need...
>
> block color    Red
> air cleaner     Ram Air Shroud- Gray Phosphate  Air Cleaner- Orange/Red
> intake(aluminum or no?) Same as Block color
> heads(aluminum or no?)  Same as block color also  water pump
> inner fenders(red like the 442?) Black like 442  Red is W30 option
>
>
> thank you for any help
>
> Chris Matthes
> 73 Cutlass
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:26:11 -0300
Subject: Re: 425's   (+ small V.C. reference)

Yes, 425 can be quite spunky. It is my understanding that the 425 was
available in low and high compression configurations. I do not know if this
went beyond piston/head volumes. Mine is temporarily restricted by the stock
2bbl and single exhaust. Once these problems are relieved, I expect Soylent
Ocean Mist to take the S-curve at speeds exceeding 55mph (although that feat
also involves suspension hop-ups). According to my shop manual, different
tranny codes refer to 2bbl high compression, 4bbl high compression, 2bbl low
compression, and another for the Jetstars. I cannot help but wonder if these
are all TH400 variants as I can find no evidence of TH350 being offered in
1965.

Incidentally, who was looking for Vista Cruiser script? There may be an ad in

Hemming's that can supply this.

Karl Aune          KarlAunan@aol.com
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

This space reserved for duct tape witticisms.

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:18:59 -0300
Subject: Re: warriors better tire makers ????

                                                                     66 Toro
In a message dated 97-05-03 21:24:24 EDT, the  ^    ^  and Mike wrote:
(how do you get those characters?)

>
>  Stay tuned.  Coming next week: "Creationism vs Darwinism
>  and it's relationship to clogged fuel filters."   ;)
>
Cool. When do we get to logical positivism versus metaphysics and why it is
good that you do not have alarming valve train chatter even though you could
not prove the chatter to exist as an a piori event anyway.

Karl Aune

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:32:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Custom Whitewalls and Tires (non-olds)

It occurs to me that in this day and age one should be able to buy a spray-on
(ar similarly easy to apply) substance which applies to rubber and cures to
become permanent or semi-permanent. In these times of sheep-cloning and
firearms with polymeric stocks/frames we should have such a product to
prevent the necessity of removing rubber ( I can not help but think this a
bad idea) from our tires in order to "create" white sidewalls. I personally
prefer to have the pathetically thin white striping found on some modern
radials face outwards out of some unfortunately outmodes sense that
whitewalls (or facsimilies thereof) should be facing out.

(suddenly realizes he has been posturing and attempts to slink away)

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:51:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Valves

For this one we need a metalurgist. I believe the Wiz is right (of course).
The engine ultimately reaches its running temperature regardless of what the
valves are made of. As far as heat conductivity of the valves/valve stem, by
the time you figure in the heat conductivity of the oil and the valve stem,
and that the valve stem moves within the valve guide (so at startup a warmer
part comes moves up and down within a cooler part), I mean really. We would
need someone with a degree in mathematics to work out the equations (and it
would take him two days to make sure he had all the right figures). When you
realize that after startup heat conductivity really does not mean much, the
only othe factor is strength and durability of the materials involved. And
although I do know, I will not bore you all with the exact composition of SS
or carbon steel. Now tool steel on the other hand......

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 04:52:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

At 09:28 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>At 08:07 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>)  A couple 77 Cutlass 2 doors, a
>
>Charlie,
>
>What color were the 2 77 Cutlass 2 doors?? Would love to get some parts off
>of them. Were any of them with the center console on the floor? CAn't wait
>to see the pixs!!
>
>>
>>
They were both brown (or whateever Olds called that color:)  I didn't look
that closely today at those.  (Nor did I shoot the interiors) However, I'm
almost certain (from a previous expedition) that one does have buckets
(swivel, I think) and console.  Not sure about shifter.  One had perfect
front end and rear end, with big collapsed drivers door and 1/4 panel just
behind it.  Other had front end damage, and a hole (not bullet, but similar)
in the driver's door.  I'll be back there early in the week, so let me know
what your looking for, and I'll snoop for ya...


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 04:52:34 -0300
Subject: Toro Virus -- Re: warriors better tire makers ????

At 04:16 PM 5/3/97 -0300, you wrote:
>All that historical - ? - came from a tire question?  And we thought the
>Toro virus was bad.

Ouch!  Who thought it was ~bad~?  Shame on you :)  Extremely contagous,
perhaps, but I wouldn't call it "bad"...

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 05:23:53 -0300
Subject: Re: warriors, Darwin, and rambling

At 03:18 AM 5/4/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>                                                                     66 Toro
>In a message dated 97-05-03 21:24:24 EDT, the  ^    ^  and Mike wrote:
>(how do you get those characters?)
>
>>
>>  Stay tuned.  Coming next week: "Creationism vs Darwinism
>>  and it's relationship to clogged fuel filters."   ;)
>>
>Cool. When do we get to logical positivism versus metaphysics and why it is
>good that you do not have alarming valve train chatter even though you could
>not prove the chatter to exist as an a piori event anyway.

Hmm, that brings up a good point.  If an electrical timer starts up an
engine that has no oil in it when nobody's around to witness it, do the
lifters actually rattle?  Hmm...

(Yup, that's right.  It's late!  :)


By the way, (speaking of pointless bandwidth wasting non Olds stuff:)  Did
anyone listen to Paul Harvey today (Sat. Noon)  He mentioned that it was on
this day in 1982 (I think) that Larry whatever did his lawnchair stunt.  He
went on to mention the Darwin society awarded him their award this year, and
that the Darwin society doesn't believe man descended from monkeys --
man(kind) still is (are?) monkeys, and they give awards to those that best
prove it!  Can't remember how he worded it, but I got a good laugh from it.

Anyone ever want to tell him to "shut up" when he starts bragging up those
"miracle leak seal" things?  "If it's a brown spot, use the stuff for brown
spots..."  I bet the service industry is just loving him.  All the heater
cores that get plugged up, and the tranny's that start acting up...  Hmm,
oil retaining rubber seals will expand slightly with brake fluid too.  Seals
the leaks (possibly) but can't be good for em....


Just more rambling.  Later :)



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 05:23:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Saturday and the salvage lot :)

At 12:36 AM 5/4/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Charley - if your REALLY going to part out that '66, could I please put
>dibs (& $) on a front pass wheel well molding if its in decent shape, rear
>view mirror & horn button?  Please Please Please?  Oh and if it has a clock
>in the dash I'd take that too.
>
>Let me know about these things, they're all I need at the moment for my new
>'baby'.
>OHHHHH, and also is there a rear pass wheel well molding on that Delmont -
>'67?
>


Well, like I said, I gotta have the front clip :(  That moulding is there,
and I think fine, but it's dangling loose (!?)  It only has the driver's
side mirror.  Can't remember if the windshield one is there or not, didn't
think to look, cuz it didn't dawn on me until just now that mine's broken
off :(  Really sorry, but ~no dice~ on the horn button, cuz the "dragster
steering wheel is mine!"  :)  Beats the hell out of that three spoke thing
the '67 gave me!

The '67 Delmont is a four door.  Will that make a difference?  Seems to me I
have a picture of that corner, though.  I'll look again when I get a chance.
It's got body damage, but I cant remember what side it was on.  It does have
the engine in it, though, regarding your high HP question earlier.  I'm
curious to find the responses to that.  (Might have to drag out the credit
card again...)  Hmm, maybe I ~should~ get one with an Olds on it!  :)

I think the Toro has a clock.  Mine doesn't work, but I haven't fogged it up
with WD-40 yet :)  Haven't dug that far into the dash, yet.


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª646
********************************
