To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #630


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 24 April 1997      Volume 01 : Number 630

Re: Original Plates
WS-30 455?
1970 98/88 Owners Manual For Sale (4/24)
White Smoke in the Exhaust
Motor Mounts
'66 Toro for sale for $175
FW: NEW Darwin Award nomination (Non-Olds ~long)
Motor Mounts -Reply
Re: WS-30 455?
Re[2]: Factory HP ratings (was: Toropony?)
Open Air Filter Element Question
Hello all... and looking at a car!
Re: Cutlass/Toro/misc
Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.
Re: Original Plates
Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.
Re: Original Plates
Motion vs. Hurst (Was Re: Baldwin/Motion
Misc comments feedback!
Need identification on '455 Rocket'
Re: Open Air Filter Element Question
Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!
Re: Toro Parts Possibility
'61 215
Re: '67 88 gasket & '61 215
Re: Need identification on '455 Rocket'
Re: Original Plates
'75 Hurst Olds
Re: Open Air Filter Element Question
re:Palm_Springs_weekend
Re: '75 Hurst Olds
Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!
Re: Motion vs. Hurst (Was Re: Baldwin/Motion
No serial ª on block.
Re: Original Plates
Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!
Re: '75 Hurst Olds
Re: FW: NEW Darwin Award nomination (Non-Olds ~long)
'69 Toronado pil pan/windage tray/studs FOR SALE
Rearend gearing
Re: The Carburetor Shop Address
Re: No serial ª on block.
"Collectable Automobile" Special Ed - Indy Pace Cars
Re: Ft. Wheel Speedo Drive
Re: Rearend gearing
Re: Rearend gearing
Mondello's 493
Re:Need Identification
Classifieds - Lots of Olds
Re: Classifieds - Lots of Olds

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:50:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Original Plates

>.  Now they
>won't reinstate these plates for me (they've never left the car in 31 yrs)
>because I don't have a piece of DMV paperwork showing these plates orig.
>went to the car.  I argued that they (the DMV) TOOK that same paperwork
>from the prev. owner when he transferred it into his name!!  Why are these
>plates purged completely from the system?  It baffles me that they don't
>have an archive system of some kind to cross reference these old plate
>numbers to match to cars
>I can 'petition' the DMV to reinstate them and
>you bet I will.

Sheeesh, that's awful.  And it seems pretty pointless, too.  It's much
simpler in Virginia.  You walk up to the counter with the old plates you
bought at the flea market, and tell them you want to put them on the car.
If the years match they give you a "vintage" registration and put the
plate's numbers in the computer under your name.  You pay the standard $35
car registration fee, and then you walk out to the parking lot and slap them
on the car.  Of course, VA must have the record for the state with the most
stupid options availible when getting liscence plates.  (I swear, I think I
saw a "bowling" seal on a plate this morning.  It coulda been a sticker
though.)

BTW, pesonalized plates cost only $10 extra the last time I checked.
Needless to say, you can't get a plate to say anything intelligible anymore
because everything good is taken.  Just reccently I tried to get YELOSUB but
that was taken and even YEL SUB was taken.  I couldn't get anything even
close to yellow submarine that made sense so I just opted for some black
vintage tags.  A friend of mine out of desperation got MOK N 6 which is
supposed to mean "mark(martin) in six" but he has to explain it to everyone
so it's kinda pointless.  (The funniest plate i've ever seen, BTW, was
TIH2-HO.  You will have to look at your monitor in a mirror to get that one.
:) )

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Thomas Martin <marttj@pcmail1.css.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:48:20 -0300
Subject: WS-30 455?

I remember years ago seeing an engine called the WS-30, a DOHC 455 Olds,
marine engine.  Did I remember it right, and did it exist or was it a
plaster model?

Thomas Martin
85 Olds Cutlass Supreme
(Looking for a shortblock 350 for the Cutlass, got one in the N. Ill
area or SE WI?)

------------------------------

From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:31:24 -0300
Subject: 1970 98/88 Owners Manual For Sale (4/24)

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to sell:

1970 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight, Delta 88 Royale, Delta 88 Custom and Delta
88 Owner=B9s Manual.  First printing, August 1969.  Very good condition.
$20.00, including shipping to any address in North America.  (4/24/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
any of these items, or if you would like additional information about
any of them.  Thank you.

          =3D=3D=3D
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | | | =3D Tom Stoner =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         =3D=3D=3D    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D+

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:10:35 -0300
Subject: White Smoke in the Exhaust

There were several postings yesterday concerning white smoke in the exhaust.
Several of the answers were that it was commonly caused by either coolant or
automatic transmission fluid...being run thru the engine, and hence removed
thru the exhaust.

Over the years, and having had, coolant in the exhaust, I'm aware of that
source and agree 100%.

Never having had a/t fluid in the exhaust, I'm curious here.

Is a/t fluid water based?

Well, to answer my own question, no its not.  It's approximately the same as
10 weight motor oil, with some red dye and some additional transmission
specific additives.

The real question is: why would mineral oil that originated in the crankcase
burn blue, and if it originated in the a/t burn white?

As is often said of Missouri, 'Show Me.'

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "James Hopkins" <paradise@interl.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:23:08 -0300
Subject: Motor Mounts

I have a 1969 Olds Cutlass Convertable.  The car originally came with a
350.  2 years ago I replaced the motor with a 455 from a '72 98.  Which
motor mounts are correct?  I have been given conflicting information
lately.  I purchaced motor mounts from The Paddock and they only list one
type of mounts for 1969.  The mounting holes seem to be slightly different.
 The current motor mounts (which came from the old 350) are shot.  Could
this explain the differences?

I would like to know the specifics before I try putting the motor and
tranny back in.

Hopper

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:49:54 -0300
Subject: '66 Toro for sale for $175

I found an ad in my local paper for the above car.  It was listed in the
parts section with several other cars.  I have absolutely no idea of the
condition of this car.  I have never seen it.  All I can do is get you the
phone number if you are interested.  I can tell you that it is some where in
or around Wichita KS.  If anybody is interested e-mail me privately and I
will get you the phone number.  Perhaps someone who also belongs to the Toro
list could forward???

Cecil Smalley
1991 W-41
notdads442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Denney J Keys <Denney.J.Keys.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:51:03 -0300
Subject: FW: NEW Darwin Award nomination (Non-Olds ~long)

I don't know if I believe this myself, but thank goodness it wasn't a
Bravada...

>Michigan, USA.
>
>Guy buys brand new Grand Cherokee for 30 some thousand dollars
>and has 400+ dollar monthly payments.  He immediately gets ahold
>of his friend and they go do some male bonding.  They go duck
>hunting and of course all the lakes are frozen.
>
>These 2 Atomic Brains go to the lake with the guns, the dog, the
>beer and of course the new vehicle.  They drive out onto the
>lake ice and get ready.  Now, they want to make some kind of a
>natural landing area for the ducks, something for the decoys to
>float on.  Remember, it's all ice and in order to make a hole
>large enough to look like something a wandering duck wants to
>fly down and land on, it is going to take a little more effort
>than an ice hole drill.
>
>Out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of
>dynamite with a short, 40 second fuse.
>
>Now these 2 Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that if
>they place the stick of dynamite on the ice at a location far
>from where they are standing (and the new Grand Cherokee), they
>take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
>burning fuse and possibly going up in smoke with the resulting
>blast.  So, they decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw
>the dynamite which is what they end up doing.
>
>Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the
>vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG ????
>
>Yes, the dog.  A highly trained Black Lab used for retrieving,
>especially things thrown by the owner.
>
>You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed
>on the ice and gets the stick of dynamite with the burning 40
>second fuse about the time it hits the ice all to the woes of
>the 2 idiots yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering what
>the hell to do now.
>
>The dog, well it is happy and heads back from where it came from
>moments before, with the stick of dynamite, only to the mounting
>woes of the 2 bozo's now really waving their arms, yelling even
>louder and jumping to new heights than ever before.
>
>Now one of the guys decides to think, something that he has
>never done before this moment, grabs a shotgun and shoots the
>dog.  The shotgun is loaded with ª8 duck shot, hardly big enough
>to stop a Black Lab on its appointed rounds.  Dog stops for a
>moment, slightly confused and continues on.  Another shot and
>this time the dog, still standing, becomes really confused & of
>course scared, thinking these 2 Nobel Prize winners have gone
>insane and takes off to find cover, with the now really short
>short fuse burning on this stick of dynamite.
>
>The cover the dogs finds?  Underneath the brand new Grand
>Cherokee 30 some thousand dollar 400+ monthly payment vehicle
>sitting on the lake ice.
>
>BOOM !
>
>Dog dies, and it and the brand new Grand Cherokee 30 some
>thousand dollar 400+ monthly payment vehicle sink to the bottom
>of the lake leaving the 2 candidates for Co-leaders of the Known
>Universe standing there with this "I can't believe this
>happened" look on their faces.
>
>Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance company
>which tells him that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal use
>of explosives is not covered.  He had yet to make the first of
>those 400+ a month payments.
>
>I felt pretty sorry for the dog myself.

------------------------------

From: GARY RUBRICH <RUBRICH@bwaafs.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:55:45 -0300
Subject: Motor Mounts -Reply

Hopper,
 The 455 mounts are what ya need, but they also use a different frame
mount than the 350's. This frame mount (the 455) is much more heavy
duty and mounts in a different position in the frame to allow the
engine to sit at the correct height. It also has a clearance divot in
it to clear a tab on the 455 mount. The 455 mount itself is also much
more heavy duty to handle 455's awesome torque. Hope this helps.

                                                    Gary
                                                    72 442 (350)
P.S. Are you looking for any 69 cutlass conv. parts?

>>> "James Hopkins" <paradise@interl.net>  4/24/97, 07:23am >>>
I have a 1969 Olds Cutlass Convertable.  The car originally came with
a
350.  2 years ago I replaced the motor with a 455 from a '72 98.
Which
motor mounts are correct?  I have been given conflicting information
lately.  I purchaced motor mounts from The Paddock and they only list
one
type of mounts for 1969.  The mounting holes seem to be slightly
different.
 The current motor mounts (which came from the old 350) are shot.
Could
this explain the differences?

I would like to know the specifics before I try putting the motor and
tranny back in.

Hopper

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:56:39 -0300
Subject: Re: WS-30 455?

I remember years ago seeing an engine called the WS-30, a DOHC 455 Olds,
marine engine.  Did I remember it right, and did it exist or was it a
plaster model?

          Is this another name for the W-43 and OW-43, the four-valve
          and four-valve DOHC (respectively) 455 engines which were
          developed by Olds in the late 60s, originally for passenger
          car use?  I have a copy of an article from a 1969 issue of
          Hot Rod which covers this engine development program in some
          detail, including the GM corporate decision to pull the plug
          just as the motors (well, the pushrod version, at least)
          were being readied for production.  They were due out in the
          1970 model year, but the advancing emissions requirements
          spelled the end of performance activities at GM, as we are
          all painfully aware.

          I can fax you a copy of the article if you email me your fax
          number.  Prototypes of these engines are on display at the
          RE Olds Museum and pictures are on Bryce's web page, under
          the REO Museum link.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:04:28 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Factory HP ratings (was: Toropony?)

If your saying the fact. specs are not correct, how many horses is my 68
442 pushin if it was advertised as a 325hp 400, how about torque??
Marty           http://hanthorn@inwave.com
68 442

          Well, what I am saying is that the factory sometimes, but
          not always, fudged the HP numbers when it suited them.  I
          suspect that this was more prevalent on the upper-end motors
          (ie, W-30s) than the more common cars, again, mainly to stay
          within the GM corporate guidelines of 10 lbs per HP.  This
          would not have been a problem for a 325 HP base 442, but
          would certainly have been the case if, as other magazine
          articles have suggested, that the W-30 engine in 1970
          actually put out more like 440 HP than the factory-rated
          370.  In the latter case, this would have been a direct
          violation of corporate policy.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:19:32 -0300
Subject: Open Air Filter Element Question

OL>I was under the impresion that open end air  cleaners are supposed to
OL>increase horespower.  I installed a open-end air elemet from Edelbrock on
OL>my 1981 Delta 88 307 and all I got was hesitation and lousy performace.
OL>When I press the gas, it feels like it will stall.  It is better when
OL>warmer, but the weather has been pretty good (15 Celsius or so) and I don't
OL>understand why.  There is no vacume leaks.  What could the problem be.


Installing an open element air cleaner will allow more air into the carb
and can cause the engine to run lean. So you need to richen up the carb
and it probable wouldn't hurt to change the fuel filter or even go to a
in line filter.

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qcoline

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:26:23 -0300
Subject: Hello all... and looking at a car!

Well hello all...

Yep, it's me again... I'm still around.
Well, it's spring now (though I think that somebody needs to tell the
weather that, it's been quite cold here in the southland) and I'm getting
that "bug".  You know... that "I wanna' buy another car - bug".  There's
one I'm looking at hear near home and I wanted to get some opinions from
you all.  The car is a Oldsmobile hearse (not Hurst) from the early 70's.
I think that I can afford to buy it (without even selling the Mercury...
yep Bill C. I've still got it :-)   ).  The only thing is, if I do buy it,
it would put off my buying a couple of parts (fender, hood, etc.) for
Lucille for another couple of months.  The hearse has a very light bit of
rust starting to "creep" through the paint.  Everything looks like it is
there on the body.  I haven't seen the motor yet, but I'm guessing that it
almost _HAS_ to be a 455 unless somebody has made a swap-- which I doubt.

Hmmmm so which is it?  Another Oldsmobile?  Or parts for my current
Oldsmobile?  Opinions?  Suggestions?  Donations?  :-)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
'84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350, 4bbl, TH375, 70k miles)
'80 Rover 3500 SD1 (215 -V8, EFI, BW-65, 85k miles)
'72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429, 4bbl, C-6, 110k miles)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:52:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutlass/Toro/misc

Charley Buehner wrote:
>
> Uh, Mike, ~don't~ tell me that kind of stuff!  After all, Manitoba
> really isn't all ~that~ far away...  :)   BTW, anyone remember what
> year his was?

I believe it was a 66.   :o

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:46:24 -0300
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.

Ray Moriarty wrote:
>
> At 10:11 PM 4/23/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >
> >If anyone can figure out any reasons why the block does't have any
> >identification ª's I would greatly appreciate it.
> >
>
> I'm sorry to say that removing engine IDª's is usually the work of a thief
> or charlatan.
>
Another possibility is that the engine was a replacement from GM.
Therefore no IDª stamped on the plate.  Of course, the mechanic at the
dealership is ~supposed~ to stamp the number there...

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:50:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Original Plates

Gee Lisa, don't get so upset, at least you have the option of using the
original plates (tags for you southerners).  Here in Indiana we have to
use the new plates each and every time.  It used to be annual, but we
are on a three year plate now.  The state does offer a Antique plate for
the same price, but I think they look stupid on anything newer than
1959.  We can get personalized plates for $45.00 extra, with the money
going to the political party in office at the time.  The good news is,
we only use plates on the rear, we can then use anything we want on the
front, including old expired plates.  I still have my first plate which
happened to be a 1970, I would love to be able to use it.  Count your
blessings.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

P.S.
When you get your originals on the car, go back and show the bimbo and
let her know she didn't know what she was talking about.

------------------------------

From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:01:01 -0300
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a 455 block.

At 09:23 PM 4/23/97 -0300, you wrote:
>OL>I'm sorry to say that removing engine IDª's is usually the work of a thief
>OL>or charlatan.
>
>OL>Ray
>OL>70 Cutlass Conv.
>
>
>GM Replacement block?
>
>Daren
>
>O.C.A. ª23571
>daren@qconline.com
>

I am under the impression that a GM replacemet block will have casting
numbers on it, and I got the idea from the original post that the block
didn't have any identification ª's.

Ray
70 Cutlass Conv.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:31:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Original Plates

Sounds like at least California will let you use the old 60's plates. Up
here you don't have that option. You can either:

1. Get a vanity plate for a $100/year premium over and above your normal
registration fee;

2. Get an antique plate if your car is 30 years of age or older (a real
deal, $15.00/yr.) This exempts you from annual inspections too. You do
need a certificate of roadworthiness, but they are easily obtained.

3. Get regular registration just like a new car if your old one can pass
a safety certification inspection each year. Cost of annual registration
here varies by weight. For my '64 it was something like $76/year, which
is why it now has antique plates on it. In another year or so, the '68
will also at those prices.

When I got the antique plates last year they gave me 2 of them, even
though we only require a rear plate here now. They said that rule didn't
apply to antique plates. This year the renewal sticker came in a quantity
of one only, so the front plate has come off. In its place is a 1964 N.S.
plate I found in an antique shop. They look extremely neat, almost like
the old California black plates, with yellow numbers. Unfortunately you
cannot reactivate them and use them for actual tags. Good luck, Lisa.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:28:00 -0300
Subject: Motion vs. Hurst (Was Re: Baldwin/Motion

Jason Labay wrote:
>Uhhh according to the book Hurst Heritage the 68 H/O ran a 12.93 in bone
>stock form.

On bone stock redline 6-inch tires?  Maybe running downhill with a tail
wind.  Sounds like the car was massaged to me, and at the very least was
cogged 4.+ and on slicks.  You don't mention the original source of the
road test data.  A book about H/O's, written for (and sold to) Hurst
enthusiasts is going to provide the fastest figure known, probably one
provided by Hurst.  Not very impartial.  I recall reading about a
mid-60's "stock" 389 GTO that was being loaned out for road testing to
magazines.   It was really a 428 CID car hand-built by Pontiac
engineers.  Sure was good at turning 12 sec. quarters and selling GTO's.
 Eventually the charade was uncovered, but it just goes to show that
there were some heavily massaged "stock" road test cars out there.

The Car Life test of the '70 W30 with AT and 3.42's was a 14.30 at
100.something mph.  Car Life was well known for accurate road tests, and
I think most everybody would agree that a 14.3 ET for a bone stock '70
W30 is pretty accurate.  Does anyone have a reputable road test of the
'68 H/O?    I think I have a few (including one from the icon of road
testing, Roger Huntington) that are in the 13.90-14.0 range, which
sounds about right, considering the lower weight and theoretically
better OAI of the '68/'69's.  I don't ever recall seeing ANY Oldsmobile
dipping into the 12's in bone stock form.  That time would put it in the
range of a well-tuned BB Chevy/Hemi , and while I love Oldsmobiles, they
just weren't THAT fast in factory stock form.

Also, I don't consider a H/O to be a bone stock Oldsmobile, any more
than a Motion W31 is bone stock.  Both were new cars retrofitted with
non-original parts, but since they were modified prior to being titled
(sold) for the first time, they could be considered stock, but certainly
not assembly-line "bone" stock.   The H/O had (essentially) a Toronado
engine that was NOT stock to the A-body, and adding gears and headers to
a stock W31(the Motion method) is, IMHO, a lot less of a mod than adding
the whole engine-lada from a Toronado.  Both cars were modified by
someone other than the factory, sold as new and warrantied.  My
comparison of modified Oldsmobiles, which IMHO the mini-milled 350 CID
"Mach One" W31 wins hands down, was intended to show that Hurst was not
the top dog in selling modified Oldsmobiles.  Even though I don't like
headers on a street car,  make mine a Motion.  If I was going to buy a
hot rod Olds think I'd prefer a real man's hot rod to a gentleman's hot
rod any day.

Scott Mullen

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:19 -0300
Subject: Misc comments feedback!

ROAD Racing:
Ha-Ha, here in Saskatchewan we have more open, flat, empty highways than
car's to race on them (35 Highway, in particular, I often drive over my
usuall 5 mile stretch of it, during the day, and see NO cars!.  The
land's also flat, giving you sufficient vision of any road hazards, too
bad the quality of the highway is PATHETIC)

Motorcycle's
No, wouldn't wanna smash-up-derby with an olds on my bike, but they're
still one of the best designed production vehicles ever made (They have
to be small, and every inch/detail has to count, unlike a bigger car
which has room for some slack (They''res more wasted space between the
firewall and bell housing on my olds than all the bikes I've owned!))

Original Plates -> Saskatchewan's a new-plate only province, too!

66 Toro in Manitoba -> Finally, something that's closer to ME than a lot
of other people!!

Just my opinion (may or may not be true!)

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.0.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard of olds's: Current count : 5 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:00:13 -0300
Subject: Need identification on '455 Rocket'

I was forced last night (because of cheap draft) to sit in a lounge and
listen to CMT (Country Music Television).

I need a Country and 60's GM's fan to help me:
There was a song called 455 Rocket (all Iknow/wanna know), and the singer
kept talking about this big olds with the 455 (liked that part), but the
car in the video didn't look 68-76ish, it looked early 60's.  They showed
an obviously fake 455 decal on the fender, though.  I couldn't even
verify it was an olds (I'm more of a 70's cars kinda guy), so could
someone PLEASE get a positive identity on this car???????????????????

ANY help much appreciated (all these years trying to destroy country
music, now I am appealling to it's fans, but it's worth it for an olds!)

(BTW, no insult to anyone's taste's intended!)

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.0.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard of olds's: Current count : 5 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:06:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Open Air Filter Element Question

IT wrote:
>
> I was under the impresion that open end air  cleaners are supposed to
> increase horespower.  I installed a open-end air elemet from Edelbrock on
> my 1981 Delta 88 307 and all I got was hesitation and lousy performace.
> When I press the gas, it feels like it will stall.  It is better when
> warmer, but the weather has been pretty good (15 Celsius or so) and I don't
> understand why.  There is no vacume leaks.  What could the problem be.
IT,

Possibly you had such a restrictive air cleaner when your carb was set
up that now yoiu are getting too much air compared to the amount of
fuel.  You may have to readjust your carb to match the new conditions of
the air cleaner.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:18:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!

IT wrote:
>
> I have a simple question.  Would rebuilding a carburator with a rebuild kit
> from the local parts store put it in the same conditions as 'new' or
> profesionally rebuilt.  What are the advantages of buying a new carburator
> versus rebuilding one?  Is rebuilding a dificult job? And finally, would
> installing a Edelbrock aftermarket carb (around $500) make a big difference
> and in what way?  307 '81 Delta 88.  Thanks.
>
> Igor Todorovic
>
> 1981 Delta 88 307
> 1995 Intrepid 3.3

Igor,

A new carb may make absolutely no difference.  It could be even less
pleasing than the one that you have now.  I wouldn't purchase a new carb
unless you have unrepairable problems w/your present one.  Replacement
carbs aren't specifically set up for your car unless you send one to a
special service carb shop & so are just a crap shoot as to what you get.

One way to determine if your carb is repairable (I'm assuming that it
runs OK now) is to spray some starting fluid around the base of the carb
& the throttle shafts while the car is running.  If you have leaks, the
starting fluid should cause the engine to speed up or bog down.

If a change in rpm's occurs at the base of the carb & you should look to
condition of the base plate gasket on the intake or the tightness of the
mounting bolts.  If a change in rpm's occurs at the throttle shafts,
then you may need to have these bushed to renew the proper clearances.

When your carb passes these tests - I assume that it probably will -
proceed w/directions in the FAQ'a of both Oldsmobile & Toronado to
rebuild the carb & set it up properly.  Neither is hard to do, requires
only a few ordinary tools, & w/probably cost around $50.

Good luck,
Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:41:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Parts Possibility

Charley Buehner wrote:
>
> At 01:20 AM 4/24/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >Chris - are there any parts off the possible '66 parts Toro that might be
> >available for a poor needy Toro owner (poor and needy now that I bought
> >it)?  I need the horn center, driver side mirror & pass front wheel well
> >molding.
> >
> >Appreciate any and all assistance.
> >
> I checked on ~my~ possible parts car, the wheel well mdg is in good shape,
> but my ~new~ Toro needs one, too, so I guess that doesn't solve anything.
> The "Dragster" steering wheel is ~definately~ going in the '67, and I didn't
> notice the mirrors.  My '67 has cheap Kmart type chrome mirrors that look
> ok, but will have to go!  It's got the pass side visor with the bit---
> Oops! ~Vanity~ mirror with the "OLDSMOBILE" lettering on it.  Perfect shape.
> I know ~exactly~ what visor hole is getting coverred by ~that~ piece!
>
> One more Toro point/question.
>
>      Nobody warned me about the carbs on these things.  Who do I have to
> kill to get one!???!  I noticed tonight (after vaccuuming out the intake for
> 1/2 hour) that no normal carb in existance will mate up to that intake!
> (Unless I grind off half of the throttle linkage:)  I stuck around 8 of em
> in there and none came close.

I'm not sure what you exactly mean here.  Unless someone has changed
your linkage, most Q-Jets of that era work on that end.  Possibly you
don't have the proper brackets on the intake for the linkage.

How many years did Toros have ~that~ low of
> an intake?

'66-70 all had the very low intakes.  I know of no substitute which
allows for a stock hood.

 My '77 small block has a normal carb on it (that ~also~ wouldn't
> fit on the '67:)  I've got a '73 Toro w/455 in Scobey, but that's quite a
> ways away, so I can't run check it out.  What are the chances of the
> throttle plates being right on that one?

This might be your problem on your cut-and -try carbs.
>
>              Charley Buehner

Charley,

You just need an ordinary Q-Jet w/the fuel inlet coming in on the
passenger side & a divorced choke.  Almost any '66-68 Olds carb like
this will do.  There are specific carbs for you car though.


66 Toronado

w/AIR    779B  identification 7026250 & 7041312
               Olds '66 w/o AIR; exc. Jetstar 88; 4BC
       Olds F85 '66 w/o AIR; 8-400 (442), 1-4BC, W/o AC
       Toronado '66 w/o AIR
w/o AIR  779A  Identification 7025152; 7025252; 7025253; 7025254;
7026052; 7026053; 7026054; 7036250
               Olds '66 w/AIR; 8-400 (442, 4BC)
               Toronado '66 w/AIR

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: BBraden@qualitybio.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:48:39 -0300
Subject: '61 215

     >>At 12:22 PM 4/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
     >>I just bought a '61 Olds F-85 with 58K miles, and am having a few
     >>problems - and a hoot! (limited knowledge of cars here!).

     >>If it is rings, I was thinking it may be better for me to drop in a
     >>new engine.  It currently has a 215 V8 aluminum block.  Someone
     >>suggested an Olds 350 might bolt right up - any ideas if this is the
     >>way I should go, and if so, what engine I should be looking for?
     >>Something a bit more common than the 215 would be ideal.

     I ran into this dilemma with my brother's '62 Cutlass Conv.  He bought
     the car after spotting it sitting next to a rural NC rd. and was
     hooked before he even walked up to it.  It was beautiful (red with
     white top, good chrome and stainless and straight body) and he
     "overlooked&didn't care" about the fact that the odometer was stuck on
     70K.  It ran and so did he minus $$$$.  Well after 6 months it
     developed a knock that turned into a cracked ª1 piston and block.
     After much debate, we ended up finding a hardtop parts car and
     rebuilding one good engine from two.  All of the standard rebuild
     parts are available, it's the auto trans. that was big bucks.

     At the time, I REALLY wanted to put a worked 350 / TH350 in the car
     and end up with excellent P/W like the early N*va conversions.  I have
     never seen this before and know it would be a screamer.
     But... originality won out.  It seemed a shame to radically change the
     unique character of this car. Plus, it was a Conv. and to get into
     that league performance-wise you would need a full cage or coupe.

     BTW: These engines were frequently swapped into MG's and Triumphs
     and the bad block made a COOL coffee table with a piece of glass
     across the top!

     PS We have enough '61/2 F85 parts to build another car if anyone needs
     anything from these years.

     Bob Braden (still lurking;)
     Hockessin DE
     bbraden@qualitybio.com
     71 442
     72 442 Conv.



------------------------------

From: BBraden@qualitybio.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:48:44 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 88 gasket & '61 215

     >>At 02:43 PM 4/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
     >>Two days ago, I bought a convertible 1967 Delta 88 with a 455 Super
     >>Rocket.  When it rains and I turn a corner, water seeps in along
     >>the windshield.  I have access to a window gasket for a 1967 442 and
     >>a 1967 Cutlass.  Will this fit the Delta?

     >The Delta is wider, so if the Cutlass gasket fit at all, it wouldn't
     >fit very well (i.e. you'd have more leaks).

     I had this problem on my daily driver '74 Delta Royale Conv. and
     didn't have the $ or desire to replace the gasket at the time.  My
     "Band-Aid" fix of putting a bike innertube (cut to fit) across the
     header worked like a charm all year round and was leak free...even in
     torrential rain at 70MPH.


     Bob Braden
     Hockessin DE
     bbraden@qualitybio.com
     71 442
     72 442 Conv.



------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:31:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Need identification on '455 Rocket'

On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Eric Aksomitis wrote:
> I need a Country and 60's GM's fan to help me:
> There was a song called 455 Rocket (all Iknow/wanna know), and the singer
> kept talking about this big olds with the 455 (liked that part), but the
> car in the video didn't look 68-76ish, it looked early 60's.  They showed
> an obviously fake 455 decal on the fender, though.  I couldn't even
> verify it was an olds (I'm more of a 70's cars kinda guy), so could
> someone PLEASE get a positive identity on this car???????????????????

The song is great IMHO, and it's done by Kathy Mattea. See www.mattea.com
for a full writeup on the song and video, with downloadable clips if
you're so inclined.

Unfortunately they took some artisitic license with the video. The large
blue car in the background is a '59 Olds, which never would have had a
455 in it since they didn't exist until '68. Perhaps we can assume a
hot-rodder swapped motors if we want to believe it's reasonably
authentic. The badges they show are from what looks like a Pontiac or
Buick.

There are also scenes where they sit in a car. That one uses a '66 or '67
Skylark 4-door junker. Too bad they didn't bother to use the real things,
but I still like the video and the song, and I'm not a huge C&W fan
either -- though either Ms. Mattea or Terri Clark can ride in my car
anytime! ;-)

Jim Chermack and I were speculating last night that maybe Ms. Mattea
might make an appearance at Lansing in August. Wouldn't that be great?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:49:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Original Plates

We're pretty lucky in Minnesote as we have several plate options:  A
Classic Plate (must be official classic according to some defined
rules).  A Minnesota Collector Plate (anything 20 years old or older).
And we can register any used plate that matches the year of the car.  In
the Classic and Collector you can personalize them for $100.00.  I got
so tired of people asking me what year my Starfire was that I bought a
Minnesota Collector Plate that reads "63 OLDS".  All these plates have a
onetime registration fee of $35.00 and no renewal or inspections
required.

------------------------------

From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:54:43 -0300
Subject: '75 Hurst Olds

Saw this ad in the paper: " 75 Hurst Olds  455 W-30, 33M, loaded, T-top,
must sell $3000.00 or best offer 612-929-9578 Pat"  is this a good price
if the car is in good shape?

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:14:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Open Air Filter Element Question

     There can be three reasons that I can think of.

     1) You say it runs better when it's warm.  That could have something
     to do with the fact that you no longer have a thermostatically
     controller air cleaner (Thermac in GM-speak) and your heat-riser is
     now non-existant.

     2) As mentioned by someone else, you may be running slightly leaner.
     I'd try one or maybe two sizes smaller (richer) metering rods in the
     secondaries as a starting point.

     3) The open element cleaner is now sucking in hot air from under the
     hood.  Hot air is less dense than outside air, so you make less power.
      The power you lose from the hot air may exceed what you gain from the
     open element.  Also, if the computer on this car has an ambient
     temperature sensor of some sort, the computer will be expecting the
     car to suck in outside air (at 60 degrees for example) but it's
     actually sucking in underhood air (at 110 degrees for example).
     Causing it to run bad.

     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Open Air Filter Element Question
Author:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET Date:    4/23/97 11:37 PM

I was under the impresion that open end air  cleaners are supposed to
increase horespower.  I installed a open-end air elemet from Edelbrock on
my 1981 Delta 88 307 and all I got was hesitation and lousy performace.
When I press the gas, it feels like it will stall.  It is better when
warmer, but the weather has been pretty good (15 Celsius or so) and I don't
understand why.  There is no vacume leaks.  What could the problem be.



------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:40:44 -0300
Subject: re:Palm_Springs_weekend

Hi Lisa,

> Is this held the same time every year?  We will definitely have to check it
> out next time.

The Chamber of Commerce would be a good bet to get dates for next year. This
was the 3rd or 4th year. Las Vegas has a similar event close to Christmas
and Palm Springs picked April for its south-country response to the success
of Hot August Nights.

We went to Hot August Nights a few years ago and had a great time. The
Avanti went on that trip and we lost the brakes just after leaving the
Donner Pass rest stop - and I had to drive downhill for several thousand
feet of the Sierras without brakes. There was nowhere and no way to stop the
car until we made it to the bottom.

Our room was in the center of Reno, but these days the event has gotten so
big that rooms downtown are booked out years ahead and the most likely place
to find space is in Sparks. Reno had traffic problems when we were there
with the relatively small attendance. Palm Springs was a nice sized event,
you'd enjoy it. If you get a room downtown you can walk to everything.

Dal

------------------------------

From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:27:46 -0300
Subject: Re: '75 Hurst Olds

I had the prettiest 75 H/O I ever saw...white on white with tan carpets, dash
and seat inserts.  Problem areas are rust (after all, it's a GM product) ,
interior sail panels (the ones behind and above the back seats- check for
flaking and cracking, they're almost impossible to find) , T-top seals (of
course) , rust under the landau top, and the seat inserts.  You might be able
to find close reproduction seat insert material, but it's not easy.  In the
final analysis, even when these cars are perfect they rarely bring much more
than $7500, so if you want one buy the nicest one you can find and stretch
financially to do it - don't expect to sell it for what you've got in it
unless you can do all the work yourself.  I wouldn't pay $3000 unless it's a
super nice original with no missing parts, no rust, and good sail panels.
 Good luck!

------------------------------

From: Barnacle Bill <wreilly@acad.bryant.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:32:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello all... and looking at a car!

Clayton,
Wow!! That's a tough choice.  The Hearse Olds are somewhat hard to
find I think.  Caddies were the most popular for that kind of vehicle.
The engine is definately a 455.  I think I'd go for the Hearse and let
Lucille wait for her stuff.
Just out of curiosity, how much is the seller asking?  I want to
try and find one of these in the near future.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Clayton Pierce wrote:

> Well hello all...
>
> Yep, it's me again... I'm still around.
> Well, it's spring now (though I think that somebody needs to tell the
> weather that, it's been quite cold here in the southland) and I'm getting
> that "bug".  You know... that "I wanna' buy another car - bug".  There's
> one I'm looking at hear near home and I wanted to get some opinions from
> you all.  The car is a Oldsmobile hearse (not Hurst) from the early 70's.
> I think that I can afford to buy it (without even selling the Mercury...
> yep Bill C. I've still got it :-)   ).  The only thing is, if I do buy it,
> it would put off my buying a couple of parts (fender, hood, etc.) for
> Lucille for another couple of months.  The hearse has a very light bit of
> rust starting to "creep" through the paint.  Everything looks like it is
> there on the body.  I haven't seen the motor yet, but I'm guessing that it
> almost _HAS_ to be a 455 unless somebody has made a swap-- which I doubt.
>
> Hmmmm so which is it?  Another Oldsmobile?  Or parts for my current
> Oldsmobile?  Opinions?  Suggestions?  Donations?  :-)
>
> Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
> Clayton Pierce,
> zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
> '84 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350, 4bbl, TH375, 70k miles)
> '80 Rover 3500 SD1 (215 -V8, EFI, BW-65, 85k miles)
> '72 Mercury Marquis Brougham (429, 4bbl, C-6, 110k miles)
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:30:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Motion vs. Hurst (Was Re: Baldwin/Motion

68 H/O's all came with whitewall polyglas tires on 7 inch rims, I think!!

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:40:26 -0300
Subject: No serial ª on block.

Now this is a topic of interest to me.  I just purchased a 1969 442
four-speed car.  All the numbers check out, except for the block.  The
block serial ª is 30X13.  That's it.  Now this looks like a 1970 block,
but I found the 455 casting numbers under a big wad of greasey gunk in
front of the intake.  Imagine, I thought it had a 400.  Everything else
seemed original, and it looks like the engine has been in there a long
time.

Is this typical of a GM warranty replacement block?  I haven't much
experience with replacement blocks.  I thought the dealer stamped the
numbers on the block when it was replaced.  I bought a C***y 502 engine
overt the counter for my truck last year, but it had a XXWW code on it.
What up with this?

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:39:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Original Plates

Lisa,
Go to another DMV and deal with someone who you feel is going to be
helpful. As with all gov't agencies, it might take a while :).

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com, http://www.en.com/users/thall, or
http://www.cybercity.hko.net/ulan_bator/gee/oldsfaq/oldsfaq3.htm

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
Oh try explaining this to a bimbo with 4 1/2 inch fingernails who probably
wouldn't know a car if it bit her in the a**.

------------------------------

From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:23:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Carburator Rebuild Question!

>I have a simple question.  Would rebuilding a carburator with a rebuild kit
>from the local parts store put it in the same conditions as 'new' or
>profesionally rebuilt.  What are the advantages of buying a new carburator
>versus rebuilding one?  Is rebuilding a dificult job? And finally, would
>installing a Edelbrock aftermarket carb (around $500) make a big difference
>and in what way?  307 '81 Delta 88.  Thanks.
>
>
>Igor Todorovic
>
>1981 Delta 88 307
>1995 Intrepid 3.3

I have not done this on an Olds, so ....

But, if you want to "tune" a carb, some of the aftermarket carbs can be
better. Remember, this is going to take some experimentation and if you are
not into this, it will be frustrating... If you like tinkering tho, you can
get some excellant results. For the Edelbrock, you should probably get the
intake as well. Anyway, unless the carb is set up for EXACTLY your
application, you HAVE to buy the Edelbrock carb tuning kit. I think it is
about $50. It comes with instructions (for an engineer) and a bunch of
springs and rods. This is kind of work I only tackle on the non-emission
cars. When you have to take into account the pollution/computer stuff, I
just give up...

Where did you get the $500 price??? This will include an Aluminum manifold,
and the tuning kit to be a fair price.

Check out http://www.edelbrock.com for application specifics. I think you
could find a bolt on replacement for what you have. But then, why spend the
money when you can rebuild what you have, especially if you are only
looking for stock performance.


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:51:51 -0300
Subject: Re: '75 Hurst Olds

John M. Loban wrote:
>
> Saw this ad in the paper: " 75 Hurst Olds  455 W-30, 33M, loaded, T-top,
> must sell $3000.00 or best offer 612-929-9578 Pat"  is this a good price
> if the car is in good shape?

It's a good deal if all the parts are there.  Any 455 Oldsmobile is
worth a look.  If it isn't rusted out and just needs some TLC, then yes,
it is a good deal.  If it is rusty, or parts missing, then you could pay
hell trying to get those parts replaced or repaired.  It also depends on
what you are going to do with the car.  If you want to drive it or not.
A good price is what the customer percieves it to be.  Which do you
think is the better deal, a '78 AMC Pacer for $3000, or a '75 H/O for
$3000?

My 2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:30:17 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: NEW Darwin Award nomination (Non-Olds ~long)

Denney.J.Keys.1@gsfc.nasa.gov (Denney J Keys)----I am finally starting to
understand how NASA can put up a 60 million dollar mission only to bring it
home hours later.  Do you work half as hard at NASA with your GOVERNMENT
OWNED COMPUTER as you do on this OLDSMOBILE newsgroup?  Why don't you go
fetch and try us again from home after your next successful mission?

------------------------------

From: r_mullen@Merck.Com (R Mullen)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:12:00 -0300
Subject: '69 Toronado pil pan/windage tray/studs FOR SALE

I have a '69 Toronado oil pan (holds an extra quart), windage tray and
studs.  Give your Olds the best factory oiling system available.  $100
and I'll pay shipping.  Email me privately if you are interested.
Scott Mullen
r_mullen@merck.com

------------------------------

From: Steven LaCrosse <lacrosse@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:16:06 -0300
Subject: Rearend gearing

Can anyone tell me what they think is the best rearend gearing for a 69
442 with a 455 H/O. I have a 3:55 I believe. At about 65 mph I'm at
about 4100 rpm. This is to high for my likeing. I was thinking around
3:08 or 2:7?. I am able to trade even for a 3:31 but I don't think that
is gaining much.

------------------------------

From: Oldoldsguy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:45:02 -0300
Subject: Re: The Carburetor Shop Address

In a message dated 4/21/97 8:21:05 PM, you wrote:

<<Upon what do you base your low opinion? And can you recommend an
alternative?>>

OK Sorry to yell.  Many years back (5 or 6) I had the Carb Shop do a q-jet
for me.  It would bog, was missing pieces, would hardly idle, etc.  Three
years ago I bought a car and it came with a carb fresh from the carb shop.
 Same deal.  The carb shop would not fix the one they did for me or the one
that came with the car for the former owner.  So in my limited experience
they are a waste of a good carb core.

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:54:55 -0300
Subject: Re: No serial ª on block.

>Now this is a topic of interest to me.  I just purchased a 1969 442
>four-speed car.  All the numbers check out, except for the block.  The
>block serial ª is 30X13.  That's it.  Now this looks like a 1970 block,
>but I found the 455 casting numbers under a big wad of greasey gunk in
>front of the intake.  Imagine, I thought it had a 400.  Everything else
>seemed original, and it looks like the engine has been in there a long
>time.

>Mike Rothe
>


  Several years ago I bought a 1967 442 from a guy for $300(it was trashed)
that had been sitting of 10-15 years.  When I ran the engine heads and block
numbers(haven't done the intake yet) they it was a '66 425 out of a Delta 88
with a deuce.  It also looked like it had been there for a long, long time.
You have to keep in mind that these cars were severly beat on and were
affordable so that teenagers of that era could buy one new or recently used.
I can recall eight of my ten buddies who had muscle cars when they were 16
had wipped them out before graduation.  With that in mind, no wonder so many
of them don't have the original engines, but close cousins.

  Later.


  Paul Brillhart

------------------------------

From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:46:28 -0300
Subject: "Collectable Automobile" Special Ed - Indy Pace Cars

     Stopped in a bookstore today @ lunch and in the magazine section was a
     special edition of "Collectable Automobile" that covers ONLY the pace
     cars for the Indy 500, up through and including this year's Aurora.
     Cost was $6.95 (US Clinton green - Sorry Greg $7.95 Canadian).  They
     mention that Brookfield Mint will be issuing a scale model of the
     Aurora Indy 500 pace car just before the race (that means soon).  Nice
     picture book, but nothin' of real "meat" technically.  There is a
     picture of the '72 H/O w/ Linda Vaughn on the trunk platform inside.

     I would like to have a whole collection of the Olds pace cars someday,
     but for now I'll settle for my Johnny Lightings.

     Now for the Trivia Contest:

     1a) What years did Olds pace the race?
     1b) What was the car?
     1c) Who was the driver?
     2)  Which ones were NOT available in the configuration as they were on
         the track at the dealership. (mention main difference between pace
         car and replica)
     3)  What precident does this year's pace car make in the selection of
         past pace cars?
     4)  Does anyone know what this year's support vehicles (trucks) are
         suppose to be?  (This one I don't know the answer to).

     Answers on Mon.

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - Future Chapter of OCA
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
(H) brad442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:05:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Ft. Wheel Speedo Drive

Here's what I know from working on my 66 98:
1) This is a very simple setup one cable going from front wheel to
speedometer, unless you have cruise control inwhich case there are two cables:
wheel to cruise, and another cruise to speedo 2) On the big cars this setup
was used from 65-70, perhaps 71, but they changed spindles on the B&C bodies
in 71 so I've never looked further than 70. 3) It requires the special spindle
on the left front wheel which is drilled to accept a fitting to connect the
cable and its housing. The spindle itself is also hollow to allow the cable
inside it. The fitting is on the end of a flexible cable housing (think roto
rooter) 4) On the outside of the front left wheel (i.e. what you see when you
remove the hubcap), there is a special cover which has a square
hole-within-a-round extension. Since this is square inside, it grabs and holds
onto the squared off end of the speedo cable. That's how it drives the cable
at wheel speed. It's just like how it drives the speedo gear at the other end
-- square fits square and causes the rotation to be transmitted remotely via
the cable. 5) The non-cruise version is trouble free. I've had lots of
problems with cable length and speedometer oscillation with the cruise
installed. I finally gave up trying to futz with the special length cables,
etc. and went back to the non-cruise version. 6) All you'd need is the cable,
cable housing, special spindle (which means disassembling the front end, you
know...) and the special dust cap which holds on the cable end.

Overall a simple system when factory installed, but swapping over to it from
a tranny driven system doesn't sound so simple. I forgot to mention that
the speedo might need to be recalibrated too since it's used to reading from
the trans instead of wheel speed. That means new gears in the speedo head
unit. Haven't a clue where to get 'em.

Hope this helps.
cf



>Has anyone here ever done a serious matitneance on the front wheel speedo
>drive?
>
>I would like some opinions:
>
>1. Would it be readily adaptable to some other car?
>
>2. Is it a maintenance nightmare, or substantially trouble free.
>
>3. Exactly how is thie feet performed, ie, where to - and what - do and how
>do things bolt together.
>
>The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:14:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Rearend gearing

At 03:16 AM 4/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Can anyone tell me what they think is the best rearend gearing for a 69
>442 with a 455 H/O. I have a 3:55 I believe. At about 65 mph I'm at
>about 4100 rpm. This is to high for my likeing. I was thinking around
>3:08 or 2:7?. I am able to trade even for a 3:31 but I don't think that
>is gaining much.
>
>

  No way do you have a 3:55 unless you forgot to shift to fourth(or 3rd. in
an auto).  I had a 4:11 in a '69 Mach 1 and I did around 3600 RPM around 60
MPH. Also, my '67 has a 3:55 and I do in the low 3100-3200 RPM on the
highway. ........WAIT a minute....you left your lowriders on the rear!  Put
them back on the nearest Impala and you'll be fine.  Later.

  Paul Brillhart

------------------------------

From: Shang <shoover@flash.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:49:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Rearend gearing

Steven LaCrosse wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me what they think is the best rearend gearing for a 69
> 442 with a 455 H/O. I have a 3:55 I believe. At about 65 mph I'm at
> about 4100 rpm. This is to high for my likeing. I was thinking around
> 3:08 or 2:7?. I am able to trade even for a 3:31 but I don't think that
> is gaining much.


I think you have a bit more than 3.55, sounds more like 4.56 to me. I
would shoot for 3.23 - 3.42, if you go into 3.08 or lower, you are going
to have a bog off line that you will hate yourself for.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Paul Michael Junion <cutlass@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:08:27 -0300
Subject: Mondello's 493

I am currently working on restoring  a '77 Cutlass and I was wondering
if anybody has heard about Joe Mondello's 493 stroker motor?  I am just
curious of how this motor will hold up in the long run.  It will be used
primarily for a cruising car with a occasional visit to the local drag
strip.  I just want the motor to be relatively reliable, so I don't have
to work on it more than I drive it..........any input on this motor will
help.......thanks, Paul



- --
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Senior in Civil Engineering with emphasis in Transportation/Municipal
I am from Green Bay, Wisconsin.....graduated from GB Southwest in 1990
I also have another e-mail account....satan@watt.cae.uwm.edu
"FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, WE SOLUTE YOU"

------------------------------

From: "mcfrlan@bconnex.net" <mcfrlan@bconnex.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:10:40 -0300
Subject: Re:Need Identification

Hi, I saw the "455 Rocket" Country music video on TV the other day too!
The car in the video is a 1959 Olds and it never came with a 455. In the
song you hear her sing about how the car has wire wheels, and if you
look at the '59 Olds in the video they put wire wheels on it too! As far
as I know the '59's never had wire wheels. I think whoever produced the
video should have looked into the subject a little more because nothing
in the video really has to do with a "455 Rocket".
Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents!

Cliff McFarlane OCAª022782
62 Oldsmobile Starfire Conv.
63 Oldsmobile Starfire Coupe.

------------------------------

From: "Blaines" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:15:46 -0300
Subject: Classifieds - Lots of Olds

Just stumbled across the "Special Car Journal" homepage.  It's pretty neat!
 And best of all, the classified section has a lot of Olds.

http://www.specialcar.com/index.html

Sorry if everyone already knew about it... ;)

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Blaines" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:39:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Classifieds - Lots of Olds

I take that back.  The only redeeming feature of Special Car Journal is the
classified Oldsmobile ads.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª630
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