To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #616


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 17 April 1997      Volume 01 : Number 616

Re: Used Olds Prices (was '86 442)
Re[2]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)
Re: Oldsmobile Custon Cruiser V8 Diesel
RE: ZL-1.
Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists
rear end bearings
Re: 1990 Vintage
Re: WANTED: 1966 Dynamic 88 Convertible
Re: Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists
Re: 1971 cutlass for parts
Re: ª's
Re: 70 cutlass
Re: ª's
Re: ª's
Re: Re[2]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)
Re: 66 -442 NOT '67!
Re: ª's
Re: ª's
Re: 66 -442 NOT '67!
4-barrel intake manifold for 69 350
Re: ª's
Re: ª's
Re: ª's
Re: ª's
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: ª's
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: ª's
Re: GM 3.4L V-6s
Cowl Numbers
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
69 Cutlass S convertable with 2 spd jetaway
Ralley Red for a 71 442?
Re: ª's
Re: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)
Re: ª's
[none]
Re: ª's
Re: Ralley Red for a 71 442?
Re: ª's
Re: NOS Rear Window Defoggers for Omega/88/98/Toronado
Re: ª's
Re: Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists
Re: rear end bearings
Re: Ralley Red for a 71 442?
Re: ª's
[none]
Re[2]: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for par
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re[4]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)
1970 Supreme conv-perfect!
Re: ª's
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: [2] Handling Problem
GM 3.4L V-6s
70 4-4-2 model
Re[2]: 66 -442 NOT '67!
Re: ª's
Re: 70 cutlass
Re: Misc. followups

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:55:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Used Olds Prices (was '86 442)

At 10:32 AM 4/16/97 -0300, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>Jason Labay wrote:
>>
>> For some odd reason it seems that every 85-87 4-4-2 that I see for sale
>> around here is at least over $10,000. There is someone here trying to sell
a >> 1986 4-4-2 with 98,500 miles for $11,000. Ok now if this car is worth >>
$11,000, I should ask $20,000 for my 1980 4-4-2, about 3,000 less were made >>
and it is the same G-body style, and it has the 350 as compared to the 307. >
>Wow just think what I could get for my 1968 4-4-2?  Hmmm.... :-)

Chris, this has always bothered me about car prices. As for the late 60's
early 70's 442's (at least around here) they are usually priced rather cheap
IMO. I hardly see cars of this vintage over $10,000. In fact just a month
ago there was a totally original 70 442 W-30, 4spd, W27 3.91, this car I saw
in person and looked immaculate and the guy had to "settle" for $6,900 he
said. I offered him the Z/28 for it but he wouldn't take it(lookin to buy a
new ford), I am kickin myself now for not having the money to buy it.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:15:57 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)

At 03:12 AM 4/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
>The good Dr. Robert Barry wrote:
>
>...If your car has *four* _round_ headlights and 400 or more cubic inches
>under the hood, you ARE driving a musclecar!
>
>     Excellent!  I couldn't have said it better myself!  I tried to think
>     up a factory 64-72 musclecar (as opposed to ponycar) that didn't have
>     four headlights, and all I could come up with were some of the early
>     Super Stock Chryslers.
>
>     BTW, I'll count the 427 Cobra as a sports car...  ;)
>
>     Joe Padavano
>     jpada@orbital.com
>

Joe

        What about 71-72 Ch*velles (SS454), 70-71 M*nte Carlos (SS454),
71-72 Gr*nd Prix, 71 Hemi Cuda's, and if you include Big Block pony cars you
car addtwo more. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim Chermack

     Er, well, I specifically left out ponycars (Cuda included) because I
     knew that would blow my theory - 68 Mustang CJ comes to mind, but I
     forgot about the Ch*velles (though many on this list would - Charlie B
     included - would disagree).  I did consider the GP and Monte SS, but
     hey, I'm allowed to be arbitrary and capricious every so often.  The
     68-70 AMX also doesn't make the cut (two headlights _and_ "only" 390
     cu in), but after riding in a friend's AMX, I'd consider that a
     musclecar too.  And like I said about the Cobra...

     But maybe we can use this as a new definition of 442 - four eyes, 400
     cubic inches, and too fast!

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30



------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:25:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Custon Cruiser V8 Diesel

- ----------
> From: Daren@qconline.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Custon Cruiser V8 Diesel
> Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 2:34 PM
>
> OL>The 7.3 has problems with pin holes in the rear cylinders
> OL>and is the worst engine on valve guides ever made. I love em.They make
me a
> OL>lot of money. If I had to make a living on 6.2 & 6.5 GM engines I
would
> OL>starve to death. Oh I don't make much on Olds V8's either those things
> OL>sometimes seem to run forever.
> OL>Walter
>
> You mean theres actually something worse than a s.b. chevy on valve
> guides. WOW!
>
>much much worse especilly if they are turbo'd or pull a heavy trailer (
which is what most people buy those things for around here) In less than
100,000 miles, sometimes a lot less, the exaust guides will be so big that
a .500 reamer for the replacement guide will bairly clean up the hole. I
have to center my seat and guide machine on the seat since the guide is so
bad the center is no longer defineable.  I have been useing bronze guides
to repair these with and so far I havent had any come back with the same
problem.
Walter

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:31:01 -0300
Subject: RE: ZL-1.

At 08:57 PM 4/16/97 -0300, hanthorn wrote:


>
>
>68 Hurst Olds was faster than the ZL-1 , Think of that!! a stipped down
>camaro, Aluminum engine and only half a frame?? And the Olds still
>kicked its ass........Thats Oldsmobile for ya!!!

Straight line yes, but wait til the curves come......The 68 H/O had a
factory time of 12.93 if I recall right. I know the ZL-1's could move but
can't remember the exact factory times on that car.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293

------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:28:09 -0300
Subject: Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

- ---559023410-758783491-861236889=:7722
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I just received this.  It's not Olds-related(sorry), but it's very
appropriate(sp?).  Hope you all get a laugh outta this! :)

    Jim Townsend

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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:22:26 -0400
From: tuck@cstone.net (Tuck Landry)
Subject: AFS-Alumni> Humor: Mailing lists
Sender: owner-afs@ra.abo.fi
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Found the following on another list...thought you folks might like
it.....Reminds me of a number of lists I'm on......

Take care,
Tuck
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Q:  How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
    to change a light bulb?

A:  1,331:
        1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
          list that the light bulb has been changed
       14 to share similar experiences of changing light
          bulbs and how the light bulb could have been
          changed differently.
        7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
       27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
          changing light bulbs.
       53 to flame the spell checkers
      156 to write to the list administrator complaining about
          the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness
          to this mail list.
       41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
      109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
          to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
      203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,
          alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing
          light bulbs be stopped.
      111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we
          are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts
          **are** relevant to this mail list.
      306 to debate which method of changing light
          bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,
          what brand of light bulbs work best for this
          technique, and what brands are faulty.
       27 to post URLs where one can see examples of
          different light bulbs
       14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
          to post corrected URLs.
        3 to post about links they found from the URLs that
          are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs
          relevant to this list.
       33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote
          them including all headers and footers, and then
          add "Me Too."
       12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing
          because they cannot handle the light bulb
          controversey.
       19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
        4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
        1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
       47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
          was meant for, leave it here.
      143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.


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- ---559023410-758783491-861236889=:7722--

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@nfld.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:46:34 -0300
Subject: rear end bearings

Hello all!

    I am having big problems trying to find the correct side axle bearings
 for my 71 442 W30 stick. It has a 10 bolt rear axle with TO stamping. WHAT
are the PNs for these bearings????? I have tried 3 times to get them and
they are incorrect each time!
      Help please!   Thanks!  Blair Rendell

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:52:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 1990 Vintage

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 User552217@aol.com wrote:

> A couple of years ago i purchased a 1991 Cutlass Supreme Covert.  Have been
> pleased with it. Leaks a little during heavy rain but otherwise is a fine
> machine.  I have been looking for production numbers for this model and if
> anyone has any info i could get  i would be forever grateful. thanks for the
> help!

'91 convertible production was 1515.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Jerry Chrostek <jchroste@pond.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:18:07 -0300
Subject: Re: WANTED: 1966 Dynamic 88 Convertible

On  4/15 Greg Yonge wanted to know if any one had a '66 Dynamic
88 Convert. for sale.  I have a '62 Starfire Convert. for sale.  Let me
know if your interested.
Jerry in Oregon   jchroste@pond.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:00:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists

<very appropriate description snipped>

Jim,

The mail list analysis really hit home with me after nearly 2 years of
administering the Olds list. I laughed out loud! Well done, and thanks. :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:06:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 1971 cutlass for parts

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:

> In checking with the 1968 Oldsmobile wholesale car order sheet, the
> option U29 (Courtesy lamps) came standard on convertibles.  On the
> sports/holiday coupes they were included with options M14 (Heavy duty
> 3 speed fully synchonized transmission), M20 (4 speed wide ratio fully
> synchronized transmission), or M21 (4 speed close ration fully
> synchronized transmission) when D55 (Sports console - with floor shift)
> was ordered.  So I guess this light wasn't meant for my car since it
> is a automatic.
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442

Chris,

Me thinks your ordering sheet doesn't give you enough information.  The
SPECS books says this.

Standard equipment:
Lamps, Instrument Panel and Rear-Armrest Courtesy (Convertible)
This much you have right.

Optional equipment:
D55 Console, Sports - Includes lockable map case with M14, M20, or M21;
plus map case and *front and rear console lamps with M40*.  N.A. with
A52.......................$57.93
Courtesy Lamps and console lamps are two different things.

Transmission options make no mention of availability of any lamps.

U29 Lamps, Instrument Panel Courtesy and Map.  Coupes............$6.32
The map light would be the one above the radio, which I'm sure you know.
The I/P courtesy lamps would be one under each end of the dash board.  Do
you have these, or just a dome lamp on the roof.

Is your automatic on the console?  Then you should have console lamps.

If you have a coupe it would be possible to have a dome lamps, I/P
courtesy lamps, map lamp, and front & rear console lamps, all at one time.
Sunglasses optional.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:08:24 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
> located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
>

Let me see if I can beat Hartlieb to this one... ;-)

> ST69  33667LAN416187
1969 Cutlass V-8 convertible, body sequence ª 416187 for the Lansing
plant (I think they started with 100001)

> TR  934        75B
>     06B

934 = gold strato-bucket seats
75 = aztec gold paint
B = dunno. Could it be a 6? That would be a gold convertible top

06B = 2nd week of June build date

How'd I do, Paul? :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:29:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 cutlass

James & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>
> At 01:09 AM 4/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >Are the dash pads and accessories the same in a 4 dr. and coupes?
> >
>
> Yes they are.
>
> Jim Chermack

On a similar line, I found out something interesting. The kick panels
for F-85 non a/c cars are different than for a non a/c Cutlass or 4-4-2.

Danny

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:09:41 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

At 08:49 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
>located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
>
>ST69

1969

>  3

Oldsmobile

>3667

V-8 powered Cutlass Convertible

>LAN416187

Body unit ª416187 (not related to the VIN) from the Lansing factory.

>TR  934

Your interior trim code; I don't have the details on that.

>75B

Aztec Gold, with a Black top (I'm guessing on the top color; it could be a
blue top instead, though it's definitely Aztec Gold)

>    06B

Built second week of June(?)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:14:31 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> > I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
> > located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
> >
>
> Let me see if I can beat Hartlieb to this one... ;-)
>
> > ST69  33667LAN416187
> 1969 Cutlass V-8 convertible, body sequence ª 416187 for the Lansing
> plant (I think they started with 100001)
>
> > TR  934        75B
> >     06B
>
> 934 = gold strato-bucket seats
> 75 = aztec gold paint
> B = dunno. Could it be a 6? That would be a gold convertible top
>
> 06B = 2nd week of June build date
>
> How'd I do, Paul? :)
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

It's definetly a B, it has the original top thats black.  Could B stand
for black?  Also it's a 442.

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:24:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)

At 10:15 AM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>...If your car has *four* _round_ headlights and 400 or more cubic inches
>>under the hood, you ARE driving a musclecar!
>>
>>     Excellent!  I couldn't have said it better myself!  I tried to think
>>     up a factory 64-72 musclecar (as opposed to ponycar) that didn't have
>>     four headlights, and all I could come up with were some of the early
>
>        What about 71-72 Ch*velles (SS454), 70-71 M*nte Carlos (SS454),
>71-72 Gr*nd Prix, 71 Hemi Cuda's, and if you include Big Block pony cars you
>car addtwo more. Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>     Er, well, I specifically left out ponycars (Cuda included) because I

Um, guys, I didn't say that you had a musclecar *only* if your car had four
round headlights and 400+ci; just that if your car did, I would consider
what you driving (such as that '72 455 Cutlass convertible) to be a musclecar.

And yes, a W-31 would be a musclecar, despite being only 350ci.

No, your 350/2-bbl 1970 Cutlass "S" is NOT a musclecar, despite how you
might see such a car advertised; it is just a classic car.

A 350/4-bbl automatic 1970 Cutlass "S" is NOT a musclecar, though the same
car with a manual transmission *might* be a musclecar, because the cam was a
good bit more radical than the automatic-equipped car. A Rallye 350 a
musclecar? Again, only with the manual tranny and its hotter cam; other than
that, it's just a decal package
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:31:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 -442 NOT '67!

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>

>At 05:20 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am looking for a 65, 66, 68-70 olds cutlass 2dr or 442 preferably a
>>66. around $1200-1500 one in need of care , w/ or w/o engine, please
>>send info.

>Hey! What's the matter with the '67??? It's those funny headlights, isn't it?

I've never been a big fan of the "parking lights between the headlights" style
either, but wouldnt the '68 fall into the catagory of "funny headlights" too?
:-)

You've got to admit, though, the W-30 forced air inlets around the parking
lamps
is a pretty cool idea...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:26:37 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
> At 08:49 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
> >located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
> >
> >ST69
>
> 1969
>
> >  3
>
> Oldsmobile
>
> >3667
>
> V-8 powered Cutlass Convertible
>
> >LAN416187
>
> Body unit ª416187 (not related to the VIN) from the Lansing factory.
>
> >TR  934
>
> Your interior trim code; I don't have the details on that.
>
> >75B
>
> Aztec Gold, with a Black top (I'm guessing on the top color; it could be a
> blue top instead, though it's definitely Aztec Gold)
>
> >    06B
>
> Built second week of June(?)
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

These numbers are under the hood, and are not the VIN ª.  I was wondering
what they represented.  The car is a 442 according to the VIN.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:37:47 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> It's definetly a B, it has the original top thats black.  Could B stand
> for black?  Also it's a 442.

If the code reads 33667, I'm afraid it's supposed to be a Cutlass
convertible. A 4-4-2 convert would be 34467 according to my books.

Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:42:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 -442 NOT '67!

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Easton,Jeffrey wrote:
> I've never been a big fan of the "parking lights between the headlights"
style > either, but wouldnt the '68 fall into the catagory of "funny
headlights" too? > :-)

Hey!!! Them's *fightin'* words!!! It's distinctive, maybe, but never
funny looking!!!

;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(owns a handsome, not funny looking, non-muscle car '68 Cutlass S 4-bbl)

------------------------------

From: Rich Scott <rich@qti.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:33:10 -0300
Subject: 4-barrel intake manifold for 69 350

        hello all,
does anyone know what the application for a steel 4 barrel manifold with an
egr,
 and tubes in the intake runner sticking straight up pointing at the smaller
throttle bores. the ª on the manifold is Y411990. my 350 motor will be done
any day and i don't want to use this manifold if it's from a 307.please e-mail
me.
                                thank you,
                                rich scott
                                rich@qti.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:48:47 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

You know, I just remembered something... we had a debate similar to this
a long time ago here. The mystery of the 4-4-2 vs. Cutlass body codes. I
seem to recall that while the 4-4-2 was indeed a separate series
according to the VIN, the body codes were the same as Cutlasses. No one
seemed to know why this was, but it doesn't mean your car isn't a 4-4-2
just because the body plate had a Cutlass code.

Sorry, I just had this memory flash after my last post...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:39:59 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> > It's definetly a B, it has the original top thats black.  Could B stand
> > for black?  Also it's a 442.
>
> If the code reads 33667, I'm afraid it's supposed to be a Cutlass
> convertible. A 4-4-2 convert would be 34467 according to my books.
>
> Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

O.K. ready for this?  The VIN reads 344679M417540.  From what I
understand the VIN says it's a 442.  What are these other ª's?

------------------------------

From: JFOWLER@capecod.net
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:57:06 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> You know, I just remembered something... we had a debate similar to this
> a long time ago here. The mystery of the 4-4-2 vs. Cutlass body codes. I
> seem to recall that while the 4-4-2 was indeed a separate series
> according to the VIN, the body codes were the same as Cutlasses. No one
> seemed to know why this was, but it doesn't mean your car isn't a 4-4-2
> just because the body plate had a Cutlass code.
>
> Sorry, I just had this memory flash after my last post...
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada


I was getting nervous. I just bought the car two weeks ago as a 442, at
least thats what the VIN said.  One more question please.  Did all 442's
come standard with stripes or was it an option?    Thanks again!!!

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:58:56 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?
>
> ST69  33667LAN416187
> TR  934        75B
>     06B
1969   I think the 33667 is the Cutlass convertible with V8,
it is the 31,687th car (out of all models) built at Lansing, Michigan in
1969. (the first one had a 100001 as a starting serial ª)TR 934 is Gold
vinyl buckets.   The 75B is Aztec gold exterior, with a black top.  The
only sticking point I see is the 06B.....I don't know what that code is,
since my books don't show anything for that code.  Unless I'm blind.....

I hope this helps.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:08:31 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Do you know what the option number is for the Map light?  I didn't
> see any reference to it in the 442 options order sheet.
>
> Chris Sparks

As per my other post, it's included in the Courtesy Lamp package.  Don't
mean to step on your toes, Greg.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:07:12 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

A FYI on 68 & 69 442s.  A lot of 68 and some 69 442's had cutlass numbered
trim tags, but have 442 vin ª's.  So dont be surprised to see cutlass trim
tags on 442 bodys.


Mike
66 442
69 H/0
70 W30
71 442 Convt.

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:17:10 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> Convenience Lamps and Mirror (Y60)
>
> I can't find any explanation of exactly what either of these included.
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada

Y60 includes an underhood lamp, trunk lamp, and glovebox lamp and a
passenger visor mirror.  On F85s and Cutlass Ss it included an ashtray
lamp, except on the S convertible, as it was standard.

Are you enlightened yet???????????

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:12:42 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> > It's definetly a B, it has the original top thats black.  Could B stand

> Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)
>
I agree.  It should be a 34467 since it was it's own body line that
year. (68-71).  For anyone that is interested, the convertible top color
numbers/letters for 1969 Cutlass body are as follows:

A = White
B = Black
C = Blue
P = Gold

The vinyl top color codes are as follows:

B = Black
C = Blue
E = Parchment
F = Sable
G = Green

These codes follow the body paint number.  Hope this will shed a little
light on the subject.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:23:41 -0300
Subject: Re: GM 3.4L V-6s

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>

[re:3100]
>Isn't this just the original 3.1 with sequential port fuel injection and
>roller rockers, instead of multi-port injection and stamped steel rockers?

There were other changes as well.  For example, I remember reading that the
oil pan
was now a cast stressed member, to help in bottom end rigidity.

>The power output of the "old" 3.4 in the Cutlass was around 210hp. I guess it
>was detuned for applications like minivans (like 160hp). Did the "new" 3.4
>also get SFI and roller rockers?

That 3.4 was a dual overhead cam w/ aluminum heads and high compression.  The
"new" 3.4 was a single cam, cast iron heads, lower compression, etc.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-speed


------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:16:56 -0300
Subject: Cowl Numbers

No one said what the VIN started with on this mystery car (Aztec gold 69
cutlass convertible with black top and gold buckets)  FWIW, it MUST
start with 344679M in the VIN to be a 442 from Lansing.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:26:21 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 Kabootski@aol.com wrote:

> I have such a map light on my '68 ragtop.  It is wired into the door jams,
> but it does not go on when the interior light swich is activated; only the
> rear courtesey lamps do.  With the doors closed, the map light only goes on
> by the map light switch, which also activates the front courtesey lamps.  My
> ''70 Cutlass convertible is the same way.  I am parting the '68 out, if
> anyone wants the lamp.  It does has a burn mark on the lens, however.
>
> Duane Ambroz
> 1970 Cutlass Supreme convertible
> 1989 Century T-type

Well, that has me confused.  I had a '68 Delta that had a map light above
the radio.  The headlight switch would turn on the two rear courtesy
lights, just like the switch on a new car does now.  The map light switch
turned on the map light and both front courtesy lights.  When you opened a
front door, all five lights would come on.  But if you opened a rear door
only the rear lights came on.  Wonder why yours is wired through the door
switched is it doesn't come on when a door's opened?

Never mind, I just re-read what you wrote and you wrote the same thing I
did.  My '72 has a map light near the radio and it's not connected to the
courtesy lights at all.  The headlight switch operates all four courtesy
lights on this one and the map light lights on its own with it's switch.

Now I've got a real hard question.  Mine came with the light near the
radio, but I got ahold of a parts car with the map light mounted on the
rearview mirror, so I installed it in mine.  When you have this options,
do you also still have the one near the radio?  I think the other car had
one, but I'm not sure.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: "James Hopkins" <paradise@interl.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:27:59 -0300
Subject: 69 Cutlass S convertable with 2 spd jetaway

Can any one tell me how many of these cars were built?

What is the correct engine size?

I recently installed a 455 bored .04 with a small cam.  I am interested in
finding a posi rear end (this is so my back tires wear evenly).

I have had this car since I was 16 (over 20yrs).  Any help would be
appreciated.

paradise@interl.net

------------------------------

From: Bryan Bodine <bbodine@matrix.uti.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:40:46 -0300
Subject: Ralley Red for a 71 442?

Hi all,

My dad has a '70 W-31 it came with the Ralley Red and black stripes
paint job.  I originally told him I would never get that color for my
car.  I actually think it would be cool to have those cars sitting side
by side with the same color, besides the color rocks.  I was wondering
if that color scheme was available for the '71 442, if so I would like
to get it and suprise him with it.  If not I want to keep it an original
color.

Bryan Bodine
'70 Cutlass S W-31 (My Dads)
'71 442 (Mine)

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:36:37 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:

> I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
> located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
>
> ST69

1969

> 33667

(3) Oldsmobile (3667) Cutlass S convertible V8

> LAN416187

Lansing built, body sequence number

> TR  934

(9) & (3) denote the type of seat and type of upholstery used.  I don't
know what those codes mean.  (4) is the code for Gold trim.  Gold was
avaiable only on a bench seat in the convertible, from what the trim book
says.

> 75B

(75) is the paint code.  This is where I always have trouble in '69,
'cause my book uses letters instead of numbers.  Another books says 75 is
Aztec Gold.  (B) would be the convertible top code, Black.

> 06B

Build date, (B) 2nd week of (06) June.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: MJTwist@unccvx.uncc.edu (Mike Twist)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:38:35 -0300
Subject: Re: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)

>In-Reply-To: <9703168611.AA861179265@hqgate.orbital.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Precedence: bulk
>
>
>
>On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 JPADA@Orbital.COM wrote:
>
>> The good Dr. Robert Barry wrote:
>>
>> ...If your car has *four* _round_ headlights and 400 or more cubic inches
>> under the hood, you ARE driving a musclecar!
>>
>
>what is it considered if your only at 350 cubic inches?

Or a 327?a 340? or (gulp!) a 351?

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:33:45 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
>
>> I was getting nervous. I just bought the car two weeks ago as a 442, at
> least thats what the VIN said.  One more question please.  Did all 442's
> come standard with stripes or was it an option?    Thanks again!!!

Come to think of it now, I agree with Greg.  I was nervous too so I went
out to check the body ª on my 69 Hurst.  It's got a Cutlass 2-dr hardtop
code, with the Hurst paint codes, and a 344879M VIN number. ???
WEIRD!

As far as the body stripes go, they were standard on the 442, and
optional for other series. However, I believe they could be deleted if
ordered that way.  The serial number does indeed reflect it is a gennie
442, and if it is all the same colors as the cowl tag, I think you can
rest assured it is indeed a real 442.  As Forrest would say, "That's all
I have to say about that!"

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "Steve Bento" <steveb@thecia.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:44:48 -0300
Subject: [none]

Hi Everybody,

It has been a while since I have sent anything to the list.  I have been so
busy with tax season that I hardly had time to read all the e-mail
messages... Well I made my first voyage to the dragway tonight, I was in my
"other" car which did ok with a best time of 14.66@95.03 mph.. I saw a
couple of Olds' up there also :-) , one was a 86-87 442 running 15.7's (I
am not to familiar with these cars so I am not sure if those times  are
good??). The other one was a really clean 71 Cutlass Supreme conv, blue
with blue interior, OAI hood, buckets, console and the 4 spoke wheel. So I
approach the owner and I started telling him about my car and the 455, etc,
etc...and the guy looks at me and just says "its got a Chevy in it, LS6
454"...Well my jaw dropped and I instantly changed the subject to OAI hood,
All I could think of was why did you do it!!!! Granted I think the Chevy
big block is one of the best engines out there but I don't think it belongs
between the fenders off an Olds.....Anyway after all the money this guy
spent on the car it only went 13.8's!!!  I wish I brought my Olds up there
tonight.......

On a side note, those 4th gen Camaro's are FAST!!! I saw a SS run 13.2's
and a couple of Z28's running mid 13's!! All of them were getting rubber in
2nd and 3rd gear, I didn't get a chance to talk to these guys and I am
wondering are these cars that quick stock???

Well its good to be back ;-)  I am sure I will be sending in some questions
now that I have time to finish up the Olds.......

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
e-mail: steveb@thecia.net
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:48:51 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> > I was wondering if anybody could decipher these codes for me?  They are
> > located on the firewall/cowl area.  THANKS!
> >
>
> Let me see if I can beat Hartlieb to this one... ;-)

Only 'cause all I've been doin all night is lookin' up VINs and typing
replies...

> How'd I do, Paul? :)

I was proud, you even got me on the vinyl buckets, although I gave that
some thought and came up with the same conclusion, but AFTER I sent my
reply.  You severely disappointed me on the convertible top though...

Still one step ahead of ya...

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:47:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Ralley Red for a 71 442?

Bryan Bodine wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> My dad has a '70 W-31 it came with the Ralley Red and black stripes
> paint job.  I originally told him I would never get that color for my
> car.  I actually think it would be cool to have those cars sitting side
> by side with the same color, besides the color rocks.  I was wondering
> if that color scheme was available for the '71 442, if so I would like
> to get it and suprise him with it.  If not I want to keep it an original
> color.
>
> Bryan Bodine
> '70 Cutlass S W-31 (My Dads)
> '71 442 (Mine)


Bryan, the 71 used a ª75 paint code for "Matador Red"  This is a very,
very close 1971 color for your dad's red 70.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:53:56 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> Also it's a 442.
>
> If the code reads 33667, I'm afraid it's supposed to be a Cutlass
> convertible. A 4-4-2 convert would be 34467 according to my books.
>
> Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia

Maybe we should all chip in and buy you a new book???? ;)

Seriously, you'd better what or you'll have your foot in your mouth like I
did a few months ago when we talked about the '68s and that VIN/bodyplate
thing.  This isn't the first '69 on the list to have two different numbers
too.  Can't explain it...

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:48:01 -0300
Subject: Re: NOS Rear Window Defoggers for Omega/88/98/Toronado

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
> Finally, I have one example of the same thing for an Olds Omega
> (or Nova/Apollo/Ventura) hatchback. Group 9.778, Part No. 994793.
> Equally complete, kind of an ingenious design which snuggles the
> whole fan/motor assembly into the left side trim panel over the
> left rear wheel in the tailgate area, and it blows air up at the
> rear window from a small square outlet at the side. Design dated
> 5/3/74, "Initial run approved 8/5/74".
>
> When you look at this stuff, especially the amount of effort that
> went into just producing the instruction sheet, you get a sense
> that even though it was a cheesy option that no one would get that
> interested in, they took it seriously and put a lot of engineering
> effort into it. I have no idea what these things are worth (okay,
> I do ;-) but will accept any reasonable offers.
>
> Don't all jump at once.  :-)
>
> Andrew C. Green

Andy,

I had forgotten, but my '73 Vista Crusier had one of those in the tail
gate.  It got it's air supply from the small grill I blew air up to the
window through a slit cut in the genuine plastic trim at the center
lower edge of the glass.  It worked just fine.  They are nearly as good
as the imbedded wire type w/no maintenance problems.  That is more than
I can say about the 2 grid ones that I have owned since.

The ones in my '67 Toronado, '70 Buick GS, '63 Grand Prix, & '62 Jetfire
seem indestructible.  They do the job too.

BTW.  I have seen one in a 1955 Studebaker, so they aren't new to the
world.  Too bad I haven't found one for my '55 Studebaker.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:00:01 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:

> I was getting nervous. I just bought the car two weeks ago as a 442, at
> least thats what the VIN said.  One more question please.  Did all 442's
> come standard with stripes or was it an option?    Thanks again!!!

G.T. hood stripes were standard.  W42 Dual Hood Stripes (part of the W30
package) were and option and not available with the standard stripes.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:55:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Non-Olds/Humor: Mailing lists

James William Townsend wrote:
>
> I just received this.  It's not Olds-related(sorry), but it's very
> appropriate(sp?).  Hope you all get a laugh outta this! :)
>
>     Jim Townsend
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> By default your reply goes only to the sender. Replace the address
> with afs@ra.abo.fi to reply to the list. To unsubscribe send a
> message with the text 'unsubscribe afs' to majordomo@ra.abo.fi.

Jim,

I've seen all of these thing somewhere before.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:59:18 -0300
Subject: Re: rear end bearings

Blair Rendell wrote:
>  WHAT
> are the PNs for these bearings????? I have tried 3 times to get them and
> they are incorrect each time!
>       Help please!   Thanks!  Blair Rendell

Blair,

If you have an old bearing handy, it has the ª on the race that can be
used to get a replacement.  This ª is a standard that can be found in
any bearing parts shop or even at the usual auto parts place that you
frequent.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Bryan Bodine <bbodine@matrix.uti.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:14:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Ralley Red for a 71 442?

MROTHE wrote:
>
> Bryan Bodine wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > My dad has a '70 W-31 it came with the Ralley Red and black stripes
> > paint job.  I originally told him I would never get that color for my
> > car.  I actually think it would be cool to have those cars sitting side
> > by side with the same color, besides the color rocks.  I was wondering
> > if that color scheme was available for the '71 442, if so I would like
> > to get it and suprise him with it.  If not I want to keep it an original
> > color.
> >
> > Bryan Bodine
> > '70 Cutlass S W-31 (My Dads)
> > '71 442 (Mine)
>
> Bryan, the 71 used a ª75 paint code for "Matador Red"  This is a very,
> very close 1971 color for your dad's red 70.
>
> Mike Rothe
Mike,

Thanks alot for the info, I appreciate it!

Bryan

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:09:06 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

At 12:39 AM 4/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
>> > It's definetly a B, it has the original top thats black.  Could B stand
>> > for black?  Also it's a 442.
>>
>> If the code reads 33667, I'm afraid it's supposed to be a Cutlass
>> convertible. A 4-4-2 convert would be 34467 according to my books.
>>
>> Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)
>>
>> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada > >O.K. ready for this?  The VIN reads 344679M417540.  From what I
>understand the VIN says it's a 442.  What are these other ª's? >

Ok guys. I've been reading from a distance and want to inject my thoughts.
There's a MAJOR problem with this car. The data plate and the VIN tag don't
match. Someone got screwed. Remove the platic frame for the VIN tag and I'll
bet you find NEW rivets. I've seen this done a couple times. That's whats
causing the confusion. I'll bet one tag or the other has been changed on
that car.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From:
Date:
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:09:02 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for par


P.S.  Joe Padavano can you tackle this one?

     I'd like to try, but I'm in Phoenix and all my documentation is back
     in Virginia.  Unfortunately I won't be home until Friday.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:13:07 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
>
> Now I've got a real hard question.  Mine came with the light near the
> radio, but I got ahold of a parts car with the map light mounted on the
> rearview mirror, so I installed it in mine.  When you have this options,
> do you also still have the one near the radio?  I think the other car had
> one, but I'm not sure.
>
> Paul Hartlieb


Paul,

1969 was the first year of the map light in the base of the mirror.
This would have replaced the dash mounted map light.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:59:22 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)

Um, guys, I didn't say that you had a musclecar *only* if your car had four
round headlights and 400+ci; just that if your car did, I would consider
what you driving (such as that '72 455 Cutlass convertible) to be a musclecar.

...snip discussion of what is and isn't a musclecar...

     You've obviously taken this much more seriously than I have.  As I
     noted in my follow-up, even an A-body snob like myself must admit that
     there are other musclecars which don't fit my rather narrow
     definition.  As has been posted here in the past, it's a musclecar if
     you think it is.  Drive it and have fun with it.

     Joe (anything less than 400 cu in isn't an engine) Padavano
     jpada@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:24:24 -0300
Subject: 1970 Supreme conv-perfect!

hi all...sorry to say, my 96 OCA champion aegean aqua is likely to sell soon
at well below my asking price.  it's listed on the Bryceman's page,
http://www.442.com:80/  posted under cars for sale, 3/13/97.  it's gotta go,
beat 16K and it's yours.  anyone who saw it at Atlanta can vouch for the
quality, it's loaded, gorgeous and drives better than new.  I drove it round
trip to the Nats, nearly 1400 miles at 80 mph with the a/c on, nonstop each
way.  Expensive legal bills mounting on other fronts, anyone interested?
 email here or FBrussee@aol.com or call 314-207-0960, it's gonna be gone by
next weekend .

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:57:02 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

At 11:09 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> If the code reads 33667, I'm afraid it's supposed to be a Cutlass
>>> convertible. A 4-4-2 convert would be 34467 according to my books.
>>
>>O.K. ready for this?  The VIN reads 344679M417540.  From what I
>>understand the VIN says it's a 442.  What are these other ª's?
>>
>Ok guys. I've been reading from a distance and want to inject my thoughts.
>There's a MAJOR problem with this car. The data plate and the VIN tag don't
>match. Someone got screwed. Remove the platic frame for the VIN tag and I'll
>bet you find NEW rivets. I've seen this done a couple times. That's whats
>causing the confusion. I'll bet one tag or the other has been changed on
>that car.

I wouldn't be so sure. After all, these were just humans who built this car,
so it's conceivable that a body destined for a regular Cutlass ended up
being assembled as a 442. When you've got three plants producing these cars,
each at times with its own peculiarities in procedures,it's certainly a
possibility. You could always search out the title on the car to see where
that VIN has been, and what it's been affixed to. Also, check that the
engine stamping matches the VIN.

Besides, who would replace a 442 trim tag with a regular Cutlass trim tag?

Oh, and the fact that the body unit ª doesn't match the VIN serial number is
not unusual either; it's the sequential number of that body, not the whole
car that the body sits on.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Kabootski@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:33:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

Oh, it does come on when the doors are open.  But remember, I only have two
doors.  Hey, it was the '60s when they designed this thing.  Who knows what
they were smokin'?

Duane Ambroz
1970 Cutlass Supreme convertible
1989 Century T-type (much faster than the Cutlass with the h.o. 350, if you
can believe)

------------------------------

From: James Pindar <jp@webspan.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:02:03 -0300
Subject: Re: [2] Handling Problem

After loosening the lock nut around the center screw, I used to use just
the tips of my index finger and thumb to make the adjustment so as not to
over tighten. And make damn sure that the screw does not tighten while
tightening the lock nut. I had a truck steering box lock up on me (that I
had over tightened) on Rt 22 in New Jersey while in the middle of a left
curve at 65mph. I managed to yank the wheel back (with one foot on the
driver's door) just before hitting the center divider.
Point is, don't do it unless you are really careful.
Tom Lentz wrote:
>
>      Could be.  I think the loose bearing theory is a good candidate too.
>      Do you have a lot of slop in the steering box?  That is exceptionaly
>      easy to fix, just loosen the nut on top (the one with the allen screw
>      in the middle of it), tighten the allen screw _a_little_bit_ and then
>      tighten the nut back down.  Be careful, this is very easy to
>      over-tighten.  Fortunately, it's easy to re-adjust if you get it too
>      tight.  Also, if it's too tight you can damage the gears in the
>      steering box.  Too loose and you have slop in the steering.
>
>      Tom Lentz
>      tlentz@teknon.com
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ > Subject: [2] Handling Problem > Author:
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca at INTERNET > Date:    4/16/97 2:22 PM > > OL>at
lower speeds (25-40 mph).  I just don't know what else to look at. > > Rear
control arm bushings? >

------------------------------

From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:59:06 -0300
Subject: GM 3.4L V-6s

My first message seems to have created more questions than it has
 answered, so I will try this again.

The 3.4L in the Camaro (SOHC 160HP), Cutlass (DOHC 215 HP),
and Venture (SOHC 185HP) are all completely DIFFERENT
engines.  The list below will describe the evolution of the
Chevrolet 60-Degree V-6 engine since the beginning.  For
history of Buick 3800 V-6, refer to GN/T-Type web site.

Engine: 2.8L V-6 (Gen I) 105-135 HP
Fuel: Carburetor, TBI   Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Cast Iron
Usage: X (Citation,Omega), A (Celebrity,Ciera),
       S/T (S-10, Blazer), F (Camaro)
- --------------------------------------------------------
First Generation 60-Degree Chevy V-6 used in early to
mid 80's.  Corporate engine used in many vehicles - spawned
Gen II design.


Engine: 3.1L/2.8L V-6 (Gen II) 130-145 HP
Fuel: Multi-Port FI, TBI  Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Aluminum
Usage: A (Celebrity,Ciera), J (Cavalier,Sunbird),
       L (Corsica,Beretta), W (Lumina,Cutlass), P (Fiero),
       F (Camaro), U (Lumina APV,Silhouette)
- --------------------------------------------------------
Second generation 60-Degree Chevy V-6 used from mid-80's
until 1994.  Basically a revised Gen I design. Millions
of these were made for many carlines.  Good output engine
but somewhat noisy.


Engine: 3100 V-6 (Gen III) 155-160 HP (L82)
Fuel: Sequential-Port FI   Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Aluminum
Usage: N (Grand Am, Achieva), W (Lumina,Cutlass)
       L (Corsica,Beretta), A (Ciera,Century)
- --------------------------------------------------------
A totally NEW design for the 1994 model year.  Completely
different from Gen I and II designs used previously. Some
significant features include: 1) sequantial port fuel
injection, 2) 24x crankshaft ignition reference for improved
idle quality, 3) steel assembled camshaft - camshaft lobes
positioned on hollow steel tube and a steel ball larger
than the i.d. of the tube is passed through "ballizing",
4) die-cast aluminum oil pan which is cross bolted into
powdered metal main bearing caps for improved lower end
stiffness and reduced noise, 5) aluminum valve covers
for reduced noise, 6) roller lifters for reduced noise
and lower friction (3-5% increase in MPG), 7) improved
induction system, 8) 66U dual processor PCM, 9) additional
block sturctural members, 10) improved lubrication system


Engine: 3.4L SOHC V-6 (Gen II 1/2) 160 HP (L32)
Fuel: Sequential Port FI  Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Cast Iron
Usage: F (Camaro, Firebird)
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Based on Gen II 3.1L V-6.  Increased displacement by
increasing bore from 3.51" to 3.62".  Has some of Gen III
improvements such as SPFI and 24x ignition.  Only used from
1993 1/2 to 1995 1/2.


Engine: 3.4L DOHC V-6 (Gen II) 210 HP (LQ1)
Fuel: Sequential Port FI   Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Aluminum
Usage: W (Lumina, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass)
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Based on Gen II 3.1L V-6.  Has 4-valves per cylinder (24 total)
and 2 camshafts per head.  Chain/sprocket system used for
crankshaft to intermediate shaft.  Cog belt system used from
intermediate shaft to camshafts.  Good power output but because
of Gen II design basis, is noisier than world class and QRD
(quality, reliability, durability) is lower than 3800 V-6.
1997 will be last model year.  Replaced by 3800 V-6,
3800 SC V-6, and new for 1998 3.5L DOHC V-6.


Engine: 3.4L SOHC V-6 (Gen III)  185 HP
Fuel: Sequential Port FI   Block/Heads: Cast Iron/Aluminum
Usage: U (Venture, Trans Sport, Silhouette)
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Based on Gen III 3.1L V-6 and used exclusively in new U-vans.
Not related to other 3.4L engines.


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:07:51 -0300
Subject: 70 4-4-2 model

I have lost the info regarding the 70 4-4-2 model kits that are supposed
to be available.  I was in the local hobby shop and they were no help.
Does anyone have the info on it?  I am needing the manufacturers name
and any other details.  The "rocket scientist" at the hobby shop offered
to order it for me with out any information.  I thought that would be
difficult at best.  How can you order if you don't know what you are
ordering?

Thanks,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:04:24 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 66 -442 NOT '67!

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Easton,Jeffrey wrote:
> I've never been a big fan of the "parking lights between the headlights"
style > either, but wouldnt the '68 fall into the catagory of "funny
headlights" too? > :-)

Hey!!! Them's *fightin'* words!!! It's distinctive, maybe, but never
funny looking!!!

     Since my first Olds (in fact, my first car) was a 68 Vista Cruiser, I
     certainly have always considered the parking-lights-between-
     the-headlights to be a very cool and distinctive look.

     And BTW, I just _had_ to stuff a 425 in place of the anemic 350 2bbl
     that the VC was born with...

     Joe (you can't be too rich or have too many cubic inches) Padavano
     jpada@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:55:14 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Paul Hartlieb wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> > Then again, they didn't show a B for a black top... :)
> >
> Maybe we should all chip in and buy you a new book???? ;)

Hey now, I removed my foot immediately after I inserted it in my mouth... ;-)

Funny thing about those convertible top codes. I've got 2 or 3 different
charts for a '69 and they all show the same codes:
1= white, 2 = black, 3 = blue, 6 = gold

Wonder why they use letter codes on the plate?


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:29:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 cutlass

At 08:29 PM 4/16/97 -0300, you wrote:

>On a similar line, I found out something interesting. The kick panels
>for F-85 non a/c cars are different than for a non a/c Cutlass or 4-4-2.
>
>Danny
>
Danny

        F-85's have a few things that are different than a Cutlass or 442.
Steering wheel is another and the rubber floor mat.

Jim

------------------------------

From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:49:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. followups


> From: JPADA@Orbital.COM
> Subject: Re[2]: Need Favor - '68/'69 Owner
>
>     But you fail to point out the insulating properties of all the air
>     bubbles in the aftermarket grid-type units...     ;)

Hey! What are _you_ doing in this argument? Has Mike got the flu?

     (Indignantly) Well!  I was the one who suggested using the soapy water
     in the first place.  Besides, Mike's been awfully quiet lately, so
     _somebody's_ got to do it.

     Joe Padavano
     jpada@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª616
********************************
