To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #679


oldsmobile-digest           Sunday, 18 May 1997        Volume 01 : Number 679

Re: Radiators/Overheating
Re: 68
Factory Tire size
Re: Radiators/Overheating
'67 front glass needed
Re: Radiators/Overheating
Re: Radiators/Overheating
Re: T-Stats & Overheating
Directions and Info
Re: Head Gaskets-One or Both?
Re: Directions and Info
Re: Talladega
Wheel Hop
IVOC meet
PUBS
GTO
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: '67 front glass needed
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: '67 front glass needed
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: Wheel Hop
1970 cutlass moldings
Re: Factory Tire size
Re: Wanted: 61-62 Olds F-85 with a 4 speed manual
Re: Calling All OCA Members - Send Me Your URL
Re: GTO
Oil discrepancies....
70 Toro GT
GTO
IVOC meet
Re: 70 Toro GT
Re: GTO
Re: Overheating
Re: Overheating followup
Re: GTO
Re: GTO
73 cutlass headers
Re: 73 cutlass headers
Re: GTO
Re: 73 cutlass headers
Re: 73 cutlass headers
Re: Overheating

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Shang <shoover@flash.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:16:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators/Overheating

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Posts to this general thread has occured, and a remark or two have me
> wondering.  And after sleeping on it: that inate Missouri 'show me' is
> surfacing it's ugly head again, and let us say the show me syndrome needs to
> be satisfied.
>
> I am not going to buy 'a car will over heat because it doesn't have a
> t'stat.'  To those that may have bought this piece of data at it's face
> value OK, but I need to be lead by the hand to see the way.  (And more on
> this later).
>
> My problem with the possiblity of this being the cause of overheating
> trouble leads me to think back.  Say to before 1930 when NO car had a
> t'stat.  They just starting happening in the very late 1920s, and while the
> cars built prior to this certainly had overheating problems, IT COULD NOT
> HAVE BEEN THERMOSTAT RELATED...  Because they didn't have thermostats!
>
> Hell the Model T Ford didn't even have a water pump!
>
> The poster to this thread that said that removal of the t'stat would cause
> overheating because the water would circulate so FAST that it didn't spend
> enough time, in the radiator, to have the air remove the heat.  I know that
> the waterpump can handel a serious amount of volume, but seriously, if this
> thread were remotely accurate, it wouldn't spend enough time in the block to
> remove the heat there also.  The oil and exhaust would then be required to
> take up the slack...
>
> The heat removal TIME element in a Model T, was caused by the construction
> in the tubes, not the t'stat; why, because as I said above it doesn't have a
> water pump, but it does have the equivalent of 'tubes.'
>
> Now, having an open mind; anyone with a differeing opinion is certainly
> welcome to change it.
>
> Now for the 'and more on this later.'  The opposite is NOT true.  On a very
> cold winter's day, if you start your cold car, and notice the anti-freeze
> has run out, so you decide to replace it with plain water only, as the car
> is running and should keep the water hot, hence from freezing.  If it is
> cold enough the water may not circulate at all, and therefore allow the
> radiator to freeze, even though the engine is at t'stat temp.
>
> OK
>
> Let me have it.
>
> The Wiz
>
>

I missed the post about the car overheating without a thermostat, but I
was the one who originally suggested that the thermostat may be sticking
open. In the original post that I was reponding to, the owner stated
that his car was runing hot, but not overheating. Now I cannot speak for
anything pre-50's because that is not my area of knowledge, but I do
know that when it 100 outside, a vehicle without a thermostat will run
hotter than a vehicle with one (assuming all other cooling components
are functioning properly) Because the water is ciculating too fast to
cool efficiently. I used to work at Firestone, and I saw it lot. When I
took the thermostat out of my Pontiac it ran a consistent 220. When I
put one back in, it ran about 200. I am really not too sure how we went
from trying to help a fellow Oldsmobiler fix his cooling problems, to
arguing who is right and who is wrong, but regardless, it was just a
suggestion and nothing more.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:34:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 68

On Sat, 17 May 1997, Graham Cain wrote:
> >       All the info, besides the 'OS' typo, is in the exact same order on
> the plate as I showed you. 'BODY PAINT' is stamped across from the 1-5-24
> RR, and the car is red, so there may be some correlation. My car does have a
> bench seat aswell. In the way of options I have nothing extra except maybe
> the cigarette lighter or the stereo?  Unfortuanately I have no one else to
> ask about it. Are there any differences in the supreme version besides the
> crome 'S' symbols and and the larger engine?
  ^^^^^^^^^

Ah, maybe that's the confusion. A Cutlass "S" is not a Cutlass Supreme,
though lots of folks think that's what it stands for (including the
original owner of my "S", who advertised it as a Supreme when they wanted
to sell it. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered it was only a "S"
model -- with 28,000 miles! :)  ) To clarify, the "S" was the
bread-and-butter model for '68, slightly sporty, but a pretty
middle-of-the-road car. The Supreme was the luxo-barge of the group, with
a more posh interior featuring a fold-down armrest in front, carpeted
lower door panels, etc. A 350-4bbl was standard. Outside, it had chrome
moldings several inches above the rocker panels and wheel openings, with
contrasting paint below. A very rare model these days.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Aaron D Eoff <sheep542@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:43:16 -0300
Subject: Factory Tire size

Can Anyone tell me what size tires were originally shipped on a 77 olds
Cutlass? I did have the info located on a sticker on driver side door but it
was removed and never replaced when the car was recently painted.
 Thanks

Aaron D Eoff
   ///////  ///////
       //       //
      //       //
     //       //
    //       //  'twas a goodyear

1977 Olds Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Travis Adams <cashmore@imt.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:47:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators/Overheating

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Posts to this general thread has occured, and a remark or two have me
> wondering.  And after sleeping on it: that inate Missouri 'show me' is
> surfacing it's ugly head again, and let us say the show me syndrome needs to
> be satisfied.
>
> I am not going to buy 'a car will over heat because it doesn't have a
> t'stat.'  To those that may have bought this piece of data at it's face
> value OK, but I need to be lead by the hand to see the way.  (And more on
> this later).
>
> My problem with the possiblity of this being the cause of overheating
> trouble leads me to think back.  Say to before 1930 when NO car had a
> t'stat.  They just starting happening in the very late 1920s, and while the
> cars built prior to this certainly had overheating problems, IT COULD NOT
> HAVE BEEN THERMOSTAT RELATED...  Because they didn't have thermostats!
>
> Hell the Model T Ford didn't even have a water pump!
>
> The poster to this thread that said that removal of the t'stat would cause
> overheating because the water would circulate so FAST that it didn't spend
> enough time, in the radiator, to have the air remove the heat.  I know that
> the waterpump can handel a serious amount of volume, but seriously, if this
> thread were remotely accurate, it wouldn't spend enough time in the block to
> remove the heat there also.  The oil and exhaust would then be required to
> take up the slack...
>
> The heat removal TIME element in a Model T, was caused by the construction
> in the tubes, not the t'stat; why, because as I said above it doesn't have a
> water pump, but it does have the equivalent of 'tubes.'
>
> Now, having an open mind; anyone with a differeing opinion is certainly
> welcome to change it.
>
> Now for the 'and more on this later.'  The opposite is NOT true.  On a very
> cold winter's day, if you start your cold car, and notice the anti-freeze
> has run out, so you decide to replace it with plain water only, as the car
> is running and should keep the water hot, hence from freezing.  If it is
> cold enough the water may not circulate at all, and therefore allow the
> radiator to freeze, even though the engine is at t'stat temp.
>
> OK
>
> Let me have it.
>
> The Wiz
>

        Nice try but the facts are this.  Not having a thermosat will do
a couple of things.  ª1 it DOESN'T allow the coolant enough time in the
engine to pick up the latent heat it is trying to remove.  Coolant does
not instantly remove the heat from areas it is in contact with.  Keep in
mind that the heat is not just on the surface of the cooling passages.
It comes from deep within the entire block which takes some time to
transfer. Nor does it allow the coolant enough time in the radiator to
remove that heat that it has taken from the engine.  Which also takes
time to "radiate" that heat away from the coolant to the atmosphere.
ª2  the faster you move that coolant through this twisting turning maze
you call a engine,  the greater the opportunity for cavitation.  As we
all no when you cavitate a coolant system in an engine it causes steam
pockets.  Now you have lost an even greater portion of your cooling
ability.  Thus you have the domino effect and an overheating engine.

                                                        Travis
                                                        65 442

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:57:14 -0300
Subject: '67 front glass needed

To any of you Olds guys up here in Washington/Oregon/Idaho area I need a
good front windshield for my '67 442 after a VERY BAD day.  I'm not sure if
only '66-67 will work, or if other years use the same glass.  You're call.

Thanks..

Paul Rousseau
*1967 'Glassless' 442

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:55:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators/Overheating

At 08:16 PM 5/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>C.R.F. wrote:
>> wondering.  And after sleeping on it: that inate Missouri 'show me' is
>> surfacing it's ugly head again, and let us say the show me syndrome needs
to >> be satisfied.

>are functioning properly) Because the water is ciculating too fast to
>cool efficiently. I used to work at Firestone, and I saw it lot. When I
>took the thermostat out of my Pontiac it ran a consistent 220. When I
>put one back in, it ran about 200. I am really not too sure how we went
>from trying to help a fellow Oldsmobiler fix his cooling problems, to
>arguing who is right and who is wrong, but regardless, it was just a
>suggestion and nothing more.
>
>Stephen Hoover

Well, that's really the way to do it; run a car back to back, with and
without a thermostat, and measure the temperature difference.

C.R.F. also wrote:
>> My problem with the possiblity of this being the cause of overheating
>> trouble leads me to think back.  Say to before 1930 when NO car had a
>> t'stat.  They just starting happening in the very late 1920s, and while the
>> cars built prior to this certainly had overheating problems, IT COULD NOT
>> HAVE BEEN THERMOSTAT RELATED...  Because they didn't have thermostats!
>> Hell the Model T Ford didn't even have a water pump!

Well, if they overheated due to an inefficient cooling system, that would
have been made more efficient with a thermostat (doubt it would have,
though; w/o a water pump, the thermosiphon cooling system needed as little
restriction as possible), then the absence of a thermostat would have caused
the overheating (just as the absence of a lugnut will cause a wheel falling
off).

>> The poster to this thread that said that removal of the t'stat would cause
>> overheating because the water would circulate so FAST that it didn't spend
>> enough time, in the radiator, to have the air remove the heat.  I know that
>> the waterpump can handel a serious amount of volume, but seriously, if this
>> thread were remotely accurate, it wouldn't spend enough time in the block
to >> remove the heat there also.  The oil and exhaust would then be required
to >> take up the slack...

Well, the block would then get hotter and hotter, and start to overheat;
thus supporting the original claim.

>> The heat removal TIME element in a Model T, was caused by the construction
>> in the tubes, not the t'stat; why, because as I said above it doesn't have
a >> water pump, but it does have the equivalent of 'tubes.'

I think this is it; the older cars didn't need a thermostat, because the
cooling system probably had enough restrictions built in to keep the cooling
system operating at its best (which, again, wasn't that good; most old
movies with people on a vacation, you see the drivers regularly adding water
to the cars when they stop for gasoline).

>> Now, having an open mind; anyone with a differeing opinion is certainly
>> welcome to change it.

Since this is a slow day, I'll add a few whip marks to this *very* dead
horse...

About this problem of overheating, it's tough to say what effect an
improvement or decline in heat transfer would have on a car "overheating",
because the temperature gauge and warning light measure the _coolant_
temperature, not the _engine_ temperature. If the heat transfer quality of
the coolant is improved by a product like Redline's "Water Wetter", then
shouldn't the coolant get *hotter*, since more heat is being transferred to
the coolant?

Now, you may say that the improvement in heat transfer would also take place
in the radiator, thus the radiator would be more efficient and thus the
coolant would be, well, cooler. But, the theory behind Water Wetter's
improvment in efficiency seems to be that it prevents the buildup of
"bubbles" on hot surfaces, such as inside the water passages on the head,
and thus improves cooling. This would seemingly have no effect on heat
transfer between the hot water and the cooler metal surfaces in the
radiator, so the water should get hotter, even though the motor (its metal
parts) would stay cooler.

Think of it this way: assume your engine's metal surfaces are 500', and 100'
water is run through the cooling passages, cooling the engine down to 400'
while the water increases in temperature to 200' (ok, numbers like this
never happen, just bear with me, I'm trying to make a point). If you could
increase the efficiency of the heat transfer of the coolant, such that the
engine was cooled down to 300', then all that heat would be in the water,
which would then be 300'. It would appear that your engine is hotter, since
you are measuring _coolant_ temp, even though the metal parts are actually
much cooler. So if you see lower coolant temps after using Redline "Water
Wetter", maybe you've decreased the coolant's efficiency??? ;)

Then again, if the coolant is more efficient, then an engine whose cooling
system was efficient enough to cool it to 200' in 80' weather under average
load, might never see more than 180' under the same conditions. Thus, when
extra load is added (and more heat is created, which is when most
overheating conditions occur), the system at 200' would increase by, say,
30' and overheat, while the system at 180' might increase by a similar
amount, yet remain within acceptable limits.

This is all very interesting to me because my rebuilt 403 runs a bit hot on
hot days, not on the highway but in city driving. I bought a bottle of Water
Wetter, but wanted to diagnose the overheating problem better before adding
it, just so I wouldn't be masking the real culprit. The 3-row radiator and
water pump are brand-new unit, and the heater core is recent as well.

The first problem was the fan clutch. A thermostatic unit won't lock up
until a certain temp, so it will appear to "freewheel" a bit when cold. To
test it, get the engine good and hot, and then shut it off; the fan should
spin noticeable less than when you shut off the engine cold. Also, there's a
noticeable "roar" when the thermostatic clutch engages; my car had lost that
characteristic noise.

A second problem that I have to address is my transmission cooler. With a
high-stall converter, the tranny fluid must be getting hotter, and adding a
lot of heat to the coolant. I need to add an external cooler to keep those
calories out of the engine coolant, but there's a problem with the standard
mounting location of tranny coolers, right in front of the radiator; all the
heat that isn't getting transferred to the coolant through the in-radiator
cooler, would now be transferred through the air passing over the radiator.
So I've got to devise a mounting system with airflow away from the raditor
itself.

After all this, then I'll add the Water Wetter.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:23:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators/Overheating

> A second problem that I have to address is my transmission cooler. With a
> high-stall converter, the tranny fluid must be getting hotter, and adding
a
> lot of heat to the coolant. I need to add an external cooler to keep
those
> calories out of the engine coolant, but there's a problem with the
standard
> mounting location of tranny coolers, right in front of the radiator; all
the
> heat that isn't getting transferred to the coolant through the
in-radiator
> cooler, would now be transferred through the air passing over the
radiator.
> So I've got to devise a mounting system with airflow away from the
raditor
> itself.

You can get a tranny cooler that is long and skinny that will mount on the
frame rail.  I don't how well these work, but they are available, probably
from Summit or Jegs.

Paul Rousseau

------------------------------

From: Kevin O'Brien <obrienk@sunynassau.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 01:56:55 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Stats & Overheating

Never had an engine overheat when running without a T-stat.
Read somewhere that F*ord engineers claimed engine cylinder walls wear
out ten times faster running their engines without a thermostat since
the cylinder walls run colder and oil doesn't coat/wet the walls as well
as at design temp.
I've always used a T-stat since I read that article-besides I believe in
OEM.
My T-stat failures have always been "closed position", loss of charge in
the element I guess.
When this happens and I want to keep going, I let the engine cool
off-remove the hose from the T-stat housing-insert a screwdriver and
violate the stat so it is stuck open-put the radiator hose back on-start
the engine-top off and hit the road again-great since this only requires
a screwdriver. Replace the stat later.
Does anybody know the best stat on the market??
The best I've done so far is a "Heavy Duty Robertshaw" which only $2
more than the standard $5 RobtShaw which is a piece of crap. Who
wouldn't pay 2X the price for a t-stat of quality?
Kevin O'Brien 78-98

------------------------------

From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 00:07:28 -0300
Subject: Directions and Info

Its Saturday night and I'm 99% sure I'm headed for sunny Cincinnati
tomorrow. I'm not very familiar with Cinn. so if anyone here lives
around there or has been in the past, how do I get there? I'll be coming
in from the South on 75. I know its at Terry Olds on Springfield Pike.
Also what time does it really start and end. I have got to be back early
so I want to get there and see as much as I can before I have to turn
around.

I should have wrote this a couple days ago, Sorry.

Thanks for any Info.
Pat McDermott
69 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: Kevin O'Brien <obrienk@sunynassau.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 03:21:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Head Gaskets-One or Both?

This goes back to comments about head gaskets in dig'st ~669.
Seems engine that started it all got away with valve cover gaskets.
But contributors suggested, that if it was a head gasket, change both
head gaskets if only one was blown.
Being an owner of a gasket blowing 5.7 diesel daily driver, and
veteran of this job, 19-21 hrs flat rate, I'd like some serious back up
on that philosophy.
Unless the engine was overheated, warrants a valve job, or there has
been a head bolt or serious gasket material upgrade, I don't see the
point.
I don't like my engine open, I don't like to risk debris in the
cylinders, and "You're half way there" doesn't cut it since in a sense
I'm half way to a ring job too and I'm not going there either unless I
have to. You should see what blows out of the pipes and drains out of
the pan after a head gasket job!
I've done it both ways but I can't convince myself I did the right thing
changing the unblown gasket. So for now, I'm in the "do the blown side
only" camp.
My most recent failure was a parted head on ª10 "New and improved GM
diesel head bolt" which was the worst failure yet. The engine is in a
crate awaiting my spare time. Spare plant is in the 98. The bolt head is
in my desk as a reminder to contact OLDS and find out what thye will do
for my wasted efforts ($110 gasket set + ~$100 new and improved head
bolts + $200 valve recondition + $ 80 injector gaskets + 21 hours labor
+ misc & etc.)
Since I'm a bit long winded a bonus for anyone who read this far, and is
interested in quality fasteners, try a call to ARP (Automotive Racing
Products), 800-826-3045 for a really interesting catalog. I got their ª
from an interesting article in a hot rod magazine. Sent for the catalog
which is very very good. I think I may ask them if I can send them the
dead head bolt and see what they think. They surprised me by a listing
5.7 diesel head bolts and mains in their catalog of supposedly superior
fasteners. They list some other Olds engines also. I have no idea of
their prices. I am certain that I will be getting my head studs or bolts
from them when I ressurect the crated 5.7.
The catalog alone, free, is worth a toll free call. It has a lot of
broad range of technical information: +Technical data and How-To for rod
bolt, head bolt, head stud, main bearing bolt, flywheel/flexplate bolt
installation, "how bolts work", "how gaskets work", all in plain
English.
Kevin O'Brien 78-98

------------------------------

From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 01:58:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Directions and Info

Pat,

Take I-75 north to exit 9, which is Springfield Pike.  Head north and you
will eventually come to the dealership on the right.  I am not sure of the
hours, but I believe 9-4 is about right.

I may be there with my 72 88 convt., but family things might get in the
way.  Hope you can find it!  Have fun!

Dave Betz
dbetz@netwalk.com


- ----------
> From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Directions and Info
> Date: Saturday, May 17, 1997 11:07 PM
>
> Its Saturday night and I'm 99% sure I'm headed for sunny Cincinnati
> tomorrow. I'm not very familiar with Cinn. so if anyone here lives
> around there or has been in the past, how do I get there? I'll be coming
> in from the South on 75. I know its at Terry Olds on Springfield Pike.
> Also what time does it really start and end. I have got to be back early
> so I want to get there and see as much as I can before I have to turn
> around.
>
> I should have wrote this a couple days ago, Sorry.
>
> Thanks for any Info.
> Pat McDermott
> 69 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 02:17:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Talladega


Hey Bill Culp,

    I made it to the Talladga show Sat, it was well worth the trip.
There were not many Oldsmobiles, but just to go in the Motorsports Museum
was worth the trip. A lot of neat Hemi race cars.

I took my 71 442 ragtop and never thought I would find a nice 71 Ram Air hood
for $250 in the swap meet.  I bought it before I thought about how I was
going to get it home.  Believe it or not I bought some straps from a vendor
and I strapped that baby facing backwards on my trunklid.  I got a lot
of looks from yall Alabama boys.  They never saw a Ram Air on front and
back of car before.  Scratched the heª$ out of my paint, but it needed
painting anyway.

Mike
66 442
69 H/0
70 W30
71 442 Convt (front and rear ram air)

------------------------------

From: Andy Lawrence <andrew@abcs.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:00:22 -0300
Subject: Wheel Hop

I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...

  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 04:08:39 -0300
Subject: IVOC meet

Hey all,

And Daren, wherever you are/was/is.
I rather hope you were working, because we did not see you there. C. Ruper,
D. Brown and I went to A&B's junque yarde immediately after the meet (they
close at 5PM)even though we persuaded them to give us a few more beers (I
mean minutes). it was because of this that we completely missed the 4PM meet
at C.B.'s. But we rather assumed that missing the antique car show was
admission of inability to attend (OK that was my slat on the situation and I
imposed it on the others so there, nah!)

 I was unwittingly drawn to two excellent examples of 1965 Starfires, and not
only because they are luxury versions of the Dynamic 88's. A blue convertible
illustrated to me what I was gaining in hood space by not having an A/C
system or the necessary ducting. A red hardtop not only hat the foot button
which operated the seek on the Wonderbar radio, but also had factory cruise
control (replaced once but still functional) which the owner uses to drive to
all meets that he shows the car at. There were also some good examples of
3x2bblcarburation, but I will leave the details of that to Mr. Brown, who
took (I hope) excellent notes.

I took some mental notes of my own. BB head stampings;

1965         A      383812      (invariably)
1966    B  and  F
1967-8      C
1976(?)     J

Sorry, no toros older than 1980. Actually there was one that was older, but
he was only on the grounds for 10-15 minutes, and it was only a 70's model.
At A&B I found the future donor car of Soylent Ocean Mist's new (old) bumpers
and was later informed that bumpers would cost me $75 each. Might just be
worth it. Was also told that a 1966 4bbl intake with remnants of a QJet still
on it would run me $100.
!
?!
!?!
???
!!!
@%&*!!!!!
For the price of gaskets I can run 600cfm. Who needs him. Maybe next
year.....

Ruper and Brown gawked at Soylent Ocean Mist. Amazing how they kept their
nausea in check.

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88
Chicago, IL

Erroneous Gear Ratio?

(Grind!!!!)

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 04:02:56 -0300
Subject: PUBS

I am looking for any publications on the Pontiac GTO any where from
67-71. All books and manuals pertaining to the GTO for maintenance
perposes. that is my next project car.
much appreciated, and please send replies directly to me
Ben

j3910@boxer.navy.mil

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 03:13:07 -0300
Subject: GTO

I am a tried and true oldsmobiler, but the w-30 is elusive and
expensive to take a 442 and "make over" the whole car top to bottom.
It still wouldn't be a w-30 by the numbers... In that event I will
eventually sell my '68 442 and am now proceeding to to the search for
a
69 pontiac GTO 455 4bbl 4.11 posi 4 spd. or if selling
a 68 Olds 442 w-30 4bbl 4spd with a good rearend I am listening.

I wont be purchasing for about 6 months, but I must start the search
early. I am looking in the California, Arizona area or in Washington
(state)
direct replies are encouraged as I will be leaving the list for a
month.

Thank you for listening
'62 Olds f-85
'68 Olds 442

------------------------------

From: ea154@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh J. Haviland)
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 07:37:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

Reply to message from andrew@abcs.com of Sat, 17 May
>
>I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
>Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
>have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
>but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
>I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
>it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
>
>  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
>
>
>
  Hi Andy, sounds like a bit of a problem, have you hears of or tries
traction bars yet? they bolt on to the leaf springs and are supposed tro
stop wheel hop, I haven't ever used them myself since nonw of my cars have
4 link rears, but around the cleveland area there pretty cheap (30-50?)
bucks a pair, but don't take my word on these, maybe someone who uses them
could give some input..

and by the way, how did those tires fit on the car? i'm getting a '72 in a
few weeks and would like to put 50's on the rear, but if worse comes to
worse i might narrow it a bit when i redo the frame ;)

'70 delta 88
'79 cutlass (parting out)
comming soon '72 cutlass supreme

- --
__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
=================================================================

------------------------------

From: Robert Knowles <bigrob@flash.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:02:33 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 front glass needed

At 10:57 PM 5/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>To any of you Olds guys up here in Washington/Oregon/Idaho area I need a
>good front windshield for my '67 442 after a VERY BAD day.  I'm not sure if
>only '66-67 will work, or if other years use the same glass.  You're call.
>
>Thanks..
>
>Paul Rousseau
>*1967 'Glassless' 442

66 or 67
Tempest, skylark , GS, Gto, LeMans, Chevelle will all work
>
>

------------------------------

From: Robert Knowles <bigrob@flash.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:07:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 07:37 AM 5/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Reply to message from andrew@abcs.com of Sat, 17 May
>>
>>I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
>>Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
>>have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
>>but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
>>I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
>>it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
>>
>>  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
>>
>>
>>
>  Hi Andy, sounds like a bit of a problem, have you hears of or tries
>traction bars yet? they bolt on to the leaf springs and are supposed tro
>stop wheel hop, I haven't ever used them myself since nonw of my cars have
>4 link rears, but around the cleveland area there pretty cheap (30-50?)
>bucks a pair, but don't take my word on these, maybe someone who uses them
>could give some input..
>
>and by the way, how did those tires fit on the car? i'm getting a '72 in a
>few weeks and would like to put 50's on the rear, but if worse comes to
>worse i might narrow it a bit when i redo the frame ;)
>
>'70 delta 88
>'79 cutlass (parting out)
>comming soon '72 cutlass supreme
>
>--
>__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
 >  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
>================================================================= > >Can't
put traction bars on a tortion bar/ ciol spring suspension...use air bags
inside the springs.....or ladder bars....keep asking.....or consult Chevelle
racers...same rear setup as ours

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:13:23 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 front glass needed

Hi,
     I have always had good luck getting glass from my local glass installer.
I will be getting a windshield for my 70 442 soon and he keeps it in stock.
The glass you get won't be date coded or anything but make sure it is a the
right manufacturer either L.O.F. or P.P.G.
                                                   Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:42:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 10:00 PM 5/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
>Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
>have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
>but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
>I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
>it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
>
>  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
>
Andy

        A couple of things to look at. I agree with some of the others (you
may air bag the rear coils) but I would look at how old the coils are and
what condition the shocks are in. With the tires your running you need the
rear up just slightly so I would install a set of Carco coil springs and a
new set of the basic replacement shocks. If you put too much shock absorber
on it, it can be too stiff and cause some wheel hop. You can replace both
those items for around $75-85. I've got a built 455 in my car and have never
experienced any wheel hop. I have seen weak springs contribute there share
to wheel hop. So if you haven't ever replaced them I would look at that
first. Air bag setups will run around $100 for the good ones.

Jim Chermack
70 Cutlass Supreme SX W-32
72 442 (350)
86 Ninety Eight
94 Cutlass Supreme
96 C-1500

------------------------------

From: Diablo <olds442@en.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 10:25:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

Andy Lawrence wrote:
>
> I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
> Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions?

 Lakewood "NO HOP" bars work well and are undetectable unless ya lay
under the car.  They relocate the upper rear control arms about 5 inches
higher changing
your cars center of gravity for the better.  A fairly easy bolt on and
cheap too.

------------------------------

From: mtpoole <mtpoole@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:16:27 -0300
Subject: 1970 cutlass moldings

I have a 1970 cutlass supreme:
Looking for the 3/4 inch chrome moldings for outer sill that runs next
to the door window and 1/4 glass window. does anyone know where I can
get any NOS parts.or can these moldings be rechromed?

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:57:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Tire size

Aaron D Eoff wrote:
>
> Can Anyone tell me what size tires were originally shipped on a 77 olds
> Cutlass?  I did have the info located on a sticker on driver side door
> but it was removed and never replaced when the car was recently painted.

If I remember correctly I think that would have been 205-75-R15's.  It
has been a while since I had put tires on the 77 C/S I use to own.

Chris Sparks
68 442
82 DRB

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:23:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: 61-62 Olds F-85 with a 4 speed manual

Neal - there are 2-3 in the Southern Calif. OCA Chapter.  Also at the
Pomona (Calif) Swap Meet about 2 mos ago was a convert with a parts car for
$2500 both - rather rough shape but between the two all there.  I ran a
wanted ad for one off Bryceman's page and had a lady answer with a convert
at $9K!!!!  Are you keeping an eye out in Hemmings?


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:35:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Calling All OCA Members - Send Me Your URL

I'm not really good at the computer stuff - thats my other half's
specialty.  But I DO know my URL is listed in my address below (very
clever, ehhh?)  Anyway - short description for mine is Lisa Madsen's
Classic Oldmobiles.

I'll add yours as a link to mine also - I've gathered as many off the list
as I can.

Thanks !

Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '72 Vista Cruiser project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 10:05:58 -0300
Subject: Re: GTO

LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3 X7402 wrote:
>
> I am a tried and true oldsmobiler, but the w-30 is elusive and
> expensive to take a 442 and "make over" the whole car top to bottom.
> It still wouldn't be a w-30 by the numbers... In that event I will
> eventually sell my '68 442 and am now proceeding to to the search for
> a
> 69 pontiac GTO 455 4bbl 4.11 posi 4 spd. or if selling
> a 68 Olds 442 w-30 4bbl 4spd with a good rearend I am listening.
>
> I wont be purchasing for about 6 months, but I must start the search
> early. I am looking in the California, Arizona area or in Washington
> (state)
> direct replies are encouraged as I will be leaving the list for a
> month.

Are you saying that you will be selling your 442 that was modified
from a plain jain to be a W-30?  If so, how much are you looking to
get?

Let me know...

Chris Sparks
68 442
82 DRB

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@spoiler.interaccess.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:31:35 -0300
Subject: Oil discrepancies....

Things are a little slow around here, so I'll give you a mystery to
ponder while you drink your Sunday coffee.  You all know I have an '86
442, 307-9, etc..(gold plated rocker cover gaskets too... :-)  )
Changed the oil yesterday.  Got out a little over 4 quarts (filter
included..) not too unusual given the way this things dribbles...but
here's the weird part...I put four quarts back in and the dipstick reads
FULL!  Take it out drive it a little, let it sit a little, stickl still
reads FULL!  Pressure guage shows about 45psi on start up, stays fairly
high for a while and then after 15 min of driving or so, will drop to a
nice 15 psi at idle.  Any ideas on what lurks in my engine now??
Clogged passages??  I could see not getting all the oil out because of
some trapped up top, but they didn't say anything when about it when
they took the rocker covers off.  MAJOR sludge in the pan??  I don't
think so as I have always been good about changing the oil every 3,000.
Should I run some CD-2 through the system or would that be courting
disaster??

thanks for your ideas...
- --
- ---Matt
'86 442
- --------------------------------------------------------
mailto:mmayer@interaccess.com    |  VM: 800-481-1323
remove the "spoiler" for replies |
- --------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Verkleeren" <jev114@psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:42:19 -0300
Subject: 70 Toro GT


Spotted a 70 toro GT in the boneyard this weekend. a real cheap place too.
all the parts are inventoried and prepriced, so they can't charge you more
for
fine olds parts. the entire driveline is there, except the carb. looks all
original
but crashed. it has a 455 4brl? E heads! Are these big Valve? i can get the

motor for a 100 bux. any motor there is 100 bux. sounds like a deal. can
anyone
tell me if this is a high compression engine, or has a steel crank?

thanks
Jeff

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:39:48 -0300
Subject: GTO

OL>69 pontiac GTO 455 4bbl 4.11 posi 4 spd.

Wont you have to wait till '70 to get a real 455 powered goat?

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com still?

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 14:03:02 -0300
Subject: IVOC meet

OL>Hey all,

OL>And Daren, wherever you are/was/is.
OL>I rather hope you were working, because we did not see you there. C. Ruper,
OL>D. Brown and I went to A&B's junque yarde immediately after the meet (they
OL>close at 5PM)even though we persuaded them to give us a few more beers (I
OL>mean minutes). it was because of this that we completely missed the 4PM
meet OL>at C.B.'s. But we rather assumed that missing the antique car show was
OL>admission of inability to attend (OK that was my slat on the situation and
I OL>imposed it on the others so there, nah!)

I was their from 11am to 1:30 pm. I didn't go to A&B's because I was in
such a hurry to leave I forgot my tool box plus I was getting tired (I
work 3rd shift no sleep since Friday). I guess it's a good I didn't stay
around till 4 to meet you guys at Charlie Browns. Oh-well next show is
July 26 Uftring Olds fun show Washington, Il..  Next time we'll have to
meet at or before the show at a certain time so we will all be able to
get together. You didn't happen to be taking notes on the '66 or 7 black
tri powered Cutlass and the owner told you it wasn't entered in the
judging? 'cause I was standing right there.

OL> I was unwittingly drawn to two excellent examples of 1965 Starfires,

Did you notice were the exhaust exits at? rear 1/4 panel

OL> Was also told that a 1966 4bbl intake with remnants of a QJet stil
OL>on it would run me $100.

Seems kinda high.

OL>Karl Aune
OL>1965 Dynamic 88
OL>Chicago, IL

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com  still?

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:13:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Toro GT

At 12:42 PM 5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Spotted a 70 toro GT in the boneyard this weekend. a real cheap place too.
[snip]
>but crashed. it has a 455 4brl? E heads! Are these big Valve? i can get the
>motor for a 100 bux. any motor there is 100 bux. sounds like a deal. can
>anyone
>tell me if this is a high compression engine, or has a steel crank?

It is a high-compression (10.25:1), big-valve (2.07" intake), Nodular-iron
crank, 400hp V-8. So, 4hp/$1 seems to be a pretty good bargain, huh?

Where's it located, BTW? If it has four leaf springs on each side in the
rear, I'd be interested in them.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:41:56 -0300
Subject: Re: GTO

> Are you saying that you will be selling your 442 that was modified
> from a plain jain to be a W-30?  If so, how much are you looking to
> get?
>
> Let me know...
>
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442
> 82 DRB

Sorry Chris, but no it is a Plain Jane 442. I was just stating the
fact that if it was modified it still wouldn't be a w-30. I will be
selling my 442, but in about six months when I get back to the
states.

I am searching for a W-30 or a GTO to purchase though.

Ben

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:32:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

> >> Yes, OPEN, if the thermostat hangs open after warming up, the water will
> >> passs through the radiator too quickly to cool down. I have seen this
> >> mean times.
>
> Yeah, it's just hard to imagine a thermostat of any style, even fully open,
> that's even close to non-restrictive...  With the thermostat being ~gone~
> I'd consider this a possibility, although I've never actually encounterred
> it (knowingly:)  Just my cooling philosophies....

Well, besides that, if a fully open thermostat will cause a car to
overheat, we're all in a great deal of trouble.  The thermostats are
designed to be fully open when the car is hot!

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\ (810)
825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/ Sterling Hts.,
MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:45:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating followup

A followup on my '84 H/O overheating problem.  As I mentioned
previously, the timing was 8 degrees retarted, changing back to stock
didn't solve the problem (but it did help the car!).  After 2 rounds of
changing the thermostat (first time the housing leaked like a seive,
turned out that a flower pedal from the "shade tree" I was working under
landed on the gasket and stuck to the sealant and I didn't see it), it
looks like things are fixed!  Took it out for a test drive, temp rock
solid at 180 degrees just like it was before.  FYI, the one I took out
was closed when it came out, I haven't put it in boiling water yet to
see what it does at temp.

Then, the check engine light comes on.  Pull over, check engine (yup,
it's an engine all right ;-)  ), plug in my official GM diagnostic paper
clip and pull a code 15, low coolant temp.  I just had to laugh, now the
car's complaining because it's too cold!  I just checked all the
temperature sensor connectors, and reset the computer and we'll see if
that does the trick.  It shouldn't complain, since I've been running the
same temp (180 degrees) and brand of thermostat for 1 1/2 years with no
problems.  If it continues to complain I suppose I could always trade up
my Hypertech chip for the Hypertech thermo-master version which expects
a cooler thermostat.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 14:36:20 -0300
Subject: Re: GTO

Hi Ben,

> Sorry Chris, but no it is a Plain Jane 442. I was just stating the
> fact that if it was modified it still wouldn't be a w-30. I will be
> selling my 442, but in about six months when I get back to the
> states.
>
> I am searching for a W-30 or a GTO to purchase though.

Well when you are ready, let me know what you decide.  Where will you
be located?  I am in So. California.  If the car is too far for me
to get at, then I may want to pass on it.

Later...


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:03:30 -0300
Subject: Re: GTO

> Hi Ben,
>
> > Sorry Chris, but no it is a Plain Jane 442. I was just stating the
> > fact that if it was modified it still wouldn't be a w-30. I will be
> > selling my 442, but in about six months when I get back to the
> > states.
> >
> > I am searching for a W-30 or a GTO to purchase though.
>
> Well when you are ready, let me know what you decide.  Where will you
> be located?  I am in So. California.  If the car is too far for me
> to get at, then I may want to pass on it.
>
Chris,

Where are you at in So. Cal??? I am stationed in Yuma, Arizona. 2.5
hours from San Diego. I know L.A. area and was born in Lancaster. So,
where ever you are it really isn't to far from me. The only catch is
that I am on deployment in the Gulf right now and won't be back till
September. I will do a lot of interior work and paint her before I
sell it. I am thinking of around 3,500 to 4,500 depending on how much
I spend when I get back. I bought it North of Seattle before I left
for the Marine Corps back in November of '95. I bought it in
september I think.

'68 Olds 442 400 4bbl 3spd (THM-400) 3.08 rearend
Will have: fresh interior and a new paint job.

I am hoping to have sold by December of this year.

Ben
'62 Olds F-85
'68 Olds 442

I am in search for any of these
67-71 Pontiac GTO (Judge desired) 454 4bbl 4spd manual w/ a good
rearend ratio
68-71 Olds 442 W-30 454 4bbl 4spd manual w/ high ratio rearend
68-70 Hurst/Olds

------------------------------

From: Chris Matthes <cdogg73@elknet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:20:41 -0300
Subject: 73 cutlass headers

it all started about 2 years ago...

my stock manifolds were cracked, the car sounded like hell, so i called up
summitt racing, ordered some headers.  They sent me 2 right side headers, i
should have know then that the project was doomed...

well, i got the correct pair of headers, and then proceeded to put the
drivers side on with little trouble, but that passenger side...

2 bolts broke off in the head, so what i wound up doing was pulling the
heads to have those bolts tapped out, while doing that i cleaned the rest
of the engine compartment and made it look a whole hell of a lot better.  I
figured that I would slide the header into place then put the head back on,
but even with that, i am still coming up a hair short, we just cant seem to
get that bitch in there...i know the damn headers arent worth all this
trouble, but does anyone out there have a solution for me that doesnt
involve dynamite and/or selling the car?

Thanks
Chris Matthes

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:46:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 cutlass headers

Hi,
     I have a 73 442 that I put headers on. The first set I put on were black
jack I believe and I had to remove the oil filter adapter to gert the right
header in place. I also put on set of 3202 Hooker 1 7/8" in the chassis
headers on and had to have a tube moved in order to get the right side on.
     Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brogham

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:01:33 -0300
Subject: Re: GTO

> From:          Daren@qconline.com
> To:            oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Date:          Sun, 18 May 1997 13:39:48 -0300
> Subject:       GTO
> Reply-to:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

> OL>69 pontiac GTO 455 4bbl 4.11 posi 4 spd.
>
> Wont you have to wait till '70 to get a real 455 powered goat?
>
> Daren
>
Even a 400 will do if 455 wasn't till '70. I don't know, I am in the
Red Sea and all my books and magazines are packed up in Arizona...
Just gonna have to take your words for it

Ben

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:16:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 cutlass headers

On Mon, 12 May 1997, Chris Matthes wrote:

> my stock manifolds were cracked, the car sounded like hell, so i called up
> summitt racing, ordered some headers.  They sent me 2 right side headers, i
> should have know then that the project was doomed...
Yeah, but that's never stopped me before, either!

> figured that I would slide the header into place then put the head back on,
> but even with that, i am still coming up a hair short, we just cant seem to
> get that bitch in there...i know the damn headers arent worth all this
> trouble, but does anyone out there have a solution for me that doesnt
> involve dynamite and/or selling the car?
If you mean that the header is still hitting something on the car, I'd
reccomend the 'heat it up with a small torch and bend it slightly
method'  Ok, actually the 'buy a used set of manifolds' would be the best
bet, but that's beside the point.
BTW, I've used mps gas, instead of propane, and it has no problem making
metal red-hot (I believe it's called mps gas).

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.1.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: "Drew K. Bengert" <dk.bengert@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:48:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 cutlass headers

Chris Matthes wrote:
>
> it all started about 2 years ago...
>
> my stock manifolds were cracked, the car sounded like hell, so i called up
> summitt racing, ordered some headers.  They sent me 2 right side headers, i
> should have know then that the project was doomed...
>
> well, i got the correct pair of headers, and then proceeded to put the
> drivers side on with little trouble, but that passenger side...
>
> 2 bolts broke off in the head, so what i wound up doing was pulling the
> heads to have those bolts tapped out, while doing that i cleaned the rest
> of the engine compartment and made it look a whole hell of a lot better.  I
> figured that I would slide the header into place then put the head back on,
> but even with that, i am still coming up a hair short, we just cant seem to
> get that bitch in there...i know the damn headers arent worth all this
> trouble, but does anyone out there have a solution for me that doesnt
> involve dynamite and/or selling the car?
>
> Thanks
> Chris Matthes



I have a 73 442 with a 455 and it has headers. I believe the headers are
Headman headers. What part of the car is the right side hitting. I will
look at my application and see if I can help in any way.

Drew

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:47:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

At 02:32 PM 5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, besides that, if a fully open thermostat will cause a car to
>overheat, we're all in a great deal of trouble.  The thermostats are
>designed to be fully open when the car is hot!

Good point. I think the claim to overheating is when the thermostat is
*completely* removed. Even when fully open, the thermostat presents quite a
bit of restriction. For racing, there are restrictor plates to take the
place of the thermostat; just a plate with a hole in it. So the idea that
there is *some* benefit to some restriction is not entirely off the wall.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

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