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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #680


oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 19 May 1997        Volume 01 : Number 680

Re: 68
1984 H/O For Sale in SW Michigan
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: 1984 H/O For Sale in SW Michigan
Re: 73 cutlass headers
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: Wheel Hop
new papa-again!!
Re: 70 Toro GT
Re: 68
Re: Wheel Hop
Rearend Codes and cams?
Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)
79 H/O for sale
Re: Wheel Hop
wheel hop cure
Re: new papa-again!!
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: 1970 cutlass moldings
Just what is the difference
Re: wheel hop cure
Re: Just what is the difference
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: 73 cutlass headers
Overheating
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)
Re: 70 Toro GT
Re: Overheating followup
Re: wheel hop cure
Torq. Spic's.  &  Other questions
Re: 68
Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: 1970 cutlass moldings
RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª679
One for the Cutlass folks
Re: One for the Cutlass folks
Web Page Update - OCA
Re: Radiators/Overheating
'67 442 ?'s
One for the Cutlass folks
Re: Just what is the difference
Re: Wheel Hop
Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:45:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 68

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> You've got me stumped also with the "1-5-24 RR" bit too. Can anyone else
assist?

I think the RR is the color code for Scarlet (Red) upper and lower
paint.  1-5-24 sounds like some kind of build code.  You're probably
right about the option codes.

Paul

- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:56:52 -0300
Subject: 1984 H/O For Sale in SW Michigan

Earlier today I observed a 1984 Hurst/Olds parked in a yard with "For
Sale" signs on it, in southwestern Michigan.  I did not have time to
stop and inspect or otherwise investigate this car, but thought I would
post what little information I have here anyway, in case someone from
that area might be interested.  The location is approximately six miles
north of Vicksburg, Michigan on Sprinkle Road, south of Kalamazoo.  The
car was parked in a yard on the west side of the road and would be hard
to miss, at least if you were southbound on Sprinkle, as I was.  If
anyone needs more detailed directions into that area, I can probably
provide them, but other than that I'm afraid that I can't provide much
more in the way of details.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: Hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:25:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

Andy Lawrence wrote:
>
> I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
> Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
> have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
> but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
> I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
> it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
>
>   Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
Traction bars..........they don't help traction, but they eliminate
wheel hop.     run around $125.00  by lakewood.
Marty
68 442
72 nova
69 nova
81 chevette ET 12.98.(50 ft time)
78 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 for sale $1500
84 Allis-Chalmers garden tractor, mowes lawn in 4 hours flat!!

------------------------------

From: "Douglas J Harkema" <harkema2@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:28:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 1984 H/O For Sale in SW Michigan

Thanks Tom I am going to be in that area tomorrow

Doug

>
> Earlier today I observed a 1984 Hurst/Olds parked in a yard with "For
> Sale" signs on it, in southwestern Michigan.  I did not have time to
> stop and inspect or otherwise investigate this car, but thought I would
> post what little information I have here anyway, in case someone from
> that area might be interested.  The location is approximately six miles
> north of Vicksburg, Michigan on Sprinkle Road, south of Kalamazoo.  The
> car was parked in a yard on the west side of the road and would be hard
> to miss, at least if you were southbound on Sprinkle, as I was.  If
> anyone needs more detailed directions into that area, I can probably
> provide them, but other than that I'm afraid that I can't provide much
> more in the way of details.
>
>           ===
> +======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
> |        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
> |        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
> |        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
> |         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
> +==================================================+
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Keith455@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:38:20 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 cutlass headers

Get rid of the headers, there not worth the trouble..If you keep them get
soild motor mounts. The pass. side header will hit the control arm if you
don't.

Keith

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:00:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

    Howdeeeee,
                        From the sounds of it and judging by the size of your
tires, it would be a safe guess that you have the rear end jacked up or
raised to clear the 295-50s.
The best easiest cheapest way to get rid of your wheel hop is to lower the
rear of your car to the point that the lower rear controll arms are parrallel
to the ground.  Your second choice -- especially if you are running air
shocks is to get rid of the air shocks and install a set of heavy duty or tow
type springs -- the particular springs that i have always used are made by a
company by the name of Cargo Coil and the part number is CC-507 they usually
run about $80 a pair and they will raise the rear of the car enough to clear
the tires --  for anybody listening in -- these springs will fit 67 to 72
cars and will fit 66 cars if some modifications are made to the spring
perches --  Anyway the next thing to do is to install a set of shock
extensions so that you wont end up hyperextending your shocks when you catch
air going over certain bumps and stuff like that and end up pulling your
shocks apart.  If you want to go one step further you could install a set of
premium gas charged shocks or spend a little bit more for some drag shocks
50/50 dampening split is your safest bet if you don't want to spend a lot of
time tuning the suspension.  The third thing you can do is to install a pair
of Alston Hop Stop upper controll arm relocators which will raise your upper
rear controll arms up off of the differential which will change the geometry
of your rear suspension and stop the wheel hop.  Hop Stop bars usually run
about $111 or so last time i checked.

        Hope that helps some,

                                                   J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:56:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

In a message dated 97-05-18 01:58:52 EDT, you write:

<< I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
 Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
 have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
 but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
 I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
 it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...

   Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes... >>

Buy a set of Air Bags and put them in the coil springs.  Inflate driver side
to 20 psi and passenger side to 5 and that should cure it.  If not then you
have to buy the
lakewood no-hop bars that install on top of the axel housing and will prevent
wheel hop

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:57:10 -0300
Subject: new papa-again!!

Just sent my plea for re-s*bsription in. We brought home a new baby girl
yesterday and She is prettier than a 66 W-30!! She weighed in @ 8lb 11oz.
This is our third/last. I must inspire one of them to become a motor-head.

I will start right back w/ asking for advice/info on a couple of different
issues.

        1. Before I left to pace the horse-pittal, there was much discussion
about the code stamped on the passenger side axle. I have looked and have
found a stamp that appears to read CL or GL. Does this jive with 65 axle
codes?

        2. Also read alot about Quadrajet numbers. I have 2 Q-jets. I would
like to know the correct applications for them. Numbers are: 7040202 and
7043252

        3. Does anyone out there know the most reasonable vendor for rebuild
kits and olds bronse paint.


Thanks in advance for the help!


Jim Smith

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:34:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Toro GT

I've compared the specs on this engine, VERY similar to a '69 H/O.  Other
then casting ª of the heads a lot is identical. Might be a good basis for
a rompin' machine!

On Sun, 18 May 1997, Verkleeren wrote:

>
> Spotted a 70 toro GT in the boneyard this weekend. a real cheap place too.
> all the parts are inventoried and prepriced, so they can't charge you more
> for
> fine olds parts. the entire driveline is there, except the carb. looks all
> original
> but crashed. it has a 455 4brl? E heads! Are these big Valve? i can get the
>
> motor for a 100 bux. any motor there is 100 bux. sounds like a deal. can
> anyone
> tell me if this is a high compression engine, or has a steel crank?
>
> thanks
> Jeff
>
>

------------------------------

From: Graham Cain <gcain@uvic.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:15:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 68

At 09:34 PM 5/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On Sat, 17 May 1997, Graham Cain wrote:
>> >       All the info, besides the 'OS' typo, is in the exact same order on
>> the plate as I showed you. 'BODY PAINT' is stamped across from the 1-5-24
>> RR, and the car is red, so there may be some correlation. My car does have
a >> bench seat aswell. In the way of options I have nothing extra except
maybe >> the cigarette lighter or the stereo?  Unfortuanately I have no one
else to >> ask about it. Are there any differences in the supreme version
besides the >> crome 'S' symbols and and the larger engine? >  ^^^^^^^^^ >
>Ah, maybe that's the confusion. A Cutlass "S" is not a Cutlass Supreme,
>though lots of folks think that's what it stands for (including the
>original owner of my "S", who advertised it as a Supreme when they wanted
>to sell it. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered it was only a "S"
>model -- with 28,000 miles! :)  ) To clarify, the "S" was the
>bread-and-butter model for '68, slightly sporty, but a pretty
>middle-of-the-road car. The Supreme was the luxo-barge of the group, with >a
more posh interior featuring a fold-down armrest in front, carpeted >lower
door panels, etc. A 350-4bbl was standard. Outside, it had chrome >moldings
several inches above the rocker panels and wheel openings, with >contrasting
paint below. A very rare model these days. > >Greg Beaulieu
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > > You must be
right, I don't a own Supreme, but does the Cutlass 'S' have a different hood
and tail lights depending on the engine, because I am pretty sure I have a 442
hood and tail lights and only a six cylinder. Any additional info you have on
the 'S' with this configuration, as well as any other location where I can
obtain other information on my car would greatly appreciated. > > >

------------------------------

From: Andy Lawrence <andrew@abcs.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:05:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

Josh J. Haviland wrote:
>
> Reply to message from andrew@abcs.com of Sat, 17 May
> >
> >I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
> >Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
> >have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
> >but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
> >I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
> >it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
> >
> >  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
> >
> >
> >
>   Hi Andy, sounds like a bit of a problem, have you hears of or tries
> traction bars yet? they bolt on to the leaf springs and are supposed tro
> stop wheel hop, I haven't ever used them myself since nonw of my cars have
> 4 link rears, but around the cleveland area there pretty cheap (30-50?)
> bucks a pair, but don't take my word on these, maybe someone who uses them
> could give some input..
>
> and by the way, how did those tires fit on the car? i'm getting a '72 in a
> few weeks and would like to put 50's on the rear, but if worse comes to
> worse i might narrow it a bit when i redo the frame ;)
>
> '70 delta 88
> '79 cutlass (parting out)
> comming soon '72 cutlass supreme
>
> --
> __/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
>   \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
> =================================================================

    Well, I can't try the leaf traction bars bacause I don't have leaf
springs!!  It is a coil spring car, I know that they make the same type of
thing but am not sure how well they will work..  As for the tires I am not
sure about the backspacing on the rims, they were on the car when I got
it(Centerline 15" by 8.5") they are only about 2 inches away from the frame
rail...The car has been lifted a couple inches, but the tries don't stick out
of the wheel well...

    Andy 'S'

------------------------------

From: "dayc" <dayc@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:55:52 -0300
Subject: Rearend Codes and cams?

Evening Folks,

How accurate are the 2 digit codes stamped on the axle tubes?
Were there ever cases in which different "ring sets" were placed in?

In cases in which cars are equipped with gear ratios of 2.56/2.78/3.08
What camshaft enhancements would be recommended, if any?

Thanks

Corey D
70 Olds Cutlass S (455)
68 Delta 68-455 2bbl!!!!! WHoa! My 17.8 sec street machine!
dayc@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: Hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:49:17 -0300
Subject: Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)

LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3 X7402 wrote:
>
> I am looking for any publications on the Pontiac GTO any where from
> 67-71. All books and manuals pertaining to the GTO for maintenance
> perposes. that is my next project car.
> much appreciated, and please send replies directly to me
> Ben
>
> j3910@boxer.navy.mil

Why don't you get on a GTO mailing list?
This is Olds country. No offence, but I get enough junk mail allready.
Marty
68 442

------------------------------

From: Hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:34:32 -0300
Subject: 79 H/O for sale

just north of Janesvile WI on hwy 26 I'll get phone ª .
paint is good dash is cracked they're asking 3300.

Marty
68 442

------------------------------

From: Andy Lawrence <andrew@abcs.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:09:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

James & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>
> At 10:00 PM 5/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
> >Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
> >have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
> >but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
> >I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
> >it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
> >
> >  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
> >
> Andy
>
>         A couple of things to look at. I agree with some of the others (you
> may air bag the rear coils) but I would look at how old the coils are and
> what condition the shocks are in. With the tires your running you need the
> rear up just slightly so I would install a set of Carco coil springs and a
> new set of the basic replacement shocks. If you put too much shock absorber
> on it, it can be too stiff and cause some wheel hop. You can replace both
> those items for around $75-85. I've got a built 455 in my car and have never
> experienced any wheel hop. I have seen weak springs contribute there share
> to wheel hop. So if you haven't ever replaced them I would look at that
> first. Air bag setups will run around $100 for the good ones.
>
> Jim Chermack
> 70 Cutlass Supreme SX W-32
> 72 442 (350)
> 86 Ninety Eight
> 94 Cutlass Supreme
> 96 C-1500

   Thanks Jim

   I has bought new spring from JC Whinteny(few inch lift), and have a new
set of 3 way adjustable shocks set on the stiffest setting...I will have to
try a new setting.

   Andy 72 'S'

------------------------------

From: Hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:59:33 -0300
Subject: wheel hop cure

Robert Knowles wrote:
>
> At 07:37 AM 5/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >Reply to message from andrew@abcs.com of Sat, 17 May
> >>
> >>I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
> >>Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
> >>have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
> >>but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
> >>I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
> >>it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
> >>
> >>  Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  Hi Andy, sounds like a bit of a problem, have you hears of or tries
> >traction bars yet? they bolt on to the leaf springs and are supposed tro
> >stop wheel hop, I haven't ever used them myself since nonw of my cars have
> >4 link rears, but around the cleveland area there pretty cheap (30-50?)
> >bucks a pair, but don't take my word on these, maybe someone who uses them
> >could give some input..
> >
> >and by the way, how did those tires fit on the car? i'm getting a '72 in a
> >few weeks and would like to put 50's on the rear, but if worse comes to
> >worse i might narrow it a bit when i redo the frame ;)
> >
> >'70 delta 88
> >'79 cutlass (parting out)
> >comming soon '72 cutlass supreme
> >
> >--
> >__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
> >  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
> >=================================================================
> >
> >Can't put traction bars on a tortion bar/ ciol spring suspension...use air
> bags inside the springs.....or ladder bars....keep asking.....or consult
> Chevelle racers...same rear setup as ours

- -Are you nuts??? Gm never used tortion bars on the rear or the front of
any car, Mopar used them on the front.
and you can get traction bars for coil-spring cars.  I had them on my 79
they stopped the wheel hop but didn't cure the tracton prob.
try boxing in your lower control arms,that will make a day/night
difference or get some 442 ones
they are boxed from the fact.

___________Marty_______68 442_________

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:07:28 -0300
Subject: Re: new papa-again!!

At 07:57 PM 5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Just sent my plea for re-s*bsription in. We brought home a new baby girl
>yesterday and She is prettier than a 66 W-30!! She weighed in @ 8lb 11oz.

Congratulations!!! But then again, this is your third, so you must be
getting used to it by now...

>        2. Also read alot about Quadrajet numbers. I have 2 Q-jets. I would
>like to know the correct applications for them. Numbers are: 7040202 and
7043252

It's too late to thumb through the books right now for the exact application
of the first, but I can tell you that it is a 1970 carb, but not an Olds.
The second is a 1973 Toronado carb (from '68-'73, they all ended with "252").

>        3. Does anyone out there know the most reasonable vendor for rebuild
>kits and olds bronse paint.

A few that you want to try are Northern Auto Warehouse, PST/Kanter (same
prices), and Performance Automotive Wholesale (aka PAW). What engine,
specifically, are you looking for a kit for?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Sean Edwards <sean@wwonline.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:12:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 11:25 PM 5/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Andy Lawrence wrote:
>>
>> I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
>> Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions? I
>> have seen many advertisments for the wheel hop cure on leaf spring car,
>> but what about coil rears? It is nice to be able to smoke the tires, but
>> I would really like to stick them to the ground...I would like to keep
>> it stock looking for the most part(no 4 link)...
>>
>>   Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
Well Andy, that all depends on how you want your machine to handle.
If you want a good hard launch here are a few cheap and easy ideas.
   1. Take the anti-sway bar off
   2. Remove the bump-stops from under the upper con-arm
   3. Try some higher\lower air pressure
   4. Put some really soft springs in the rear
The big picture here is to get the car to lift in the front and sit down at
the back. These tricks really helped my 72 S(black,455 40 over,3.70 gear)to
stick to the road.

Sean
Toronto ON.Canada

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@Prodigy.Net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:59:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass moldings

mtpoole wrote:
>
> I have a 1970 cutlass supreme:
> Looking for the 3/4 inch chrome moldings for outer sill that runs next
> to the door window and 1/4 glass window. does anyone know where I can
> get any NOS parts.or can these moldings be rechromed?


FWIW, these moldings are made of stainless steel, and I do believe they
are not available from any source that I know of.  Try Hemmings Motor
News, and if they aren't in REAL bad shape, there are numerous metal
finishing places (check locally, and again, in Hemmings) that can
repair/repolish your old stainless moldings and make them look like new
again.  As for the window "fuzzy" mounted on them, I have no idea......

My 1.5 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:15:20 -0300
Subject: Just what is the difference

Ok, this has been bugging me for too long:  I'm always being told that a
pontiac 455 from a TA is the same as an oldsmobile, basically. I know
the distributor's are in front, but just what are the majour internal
differences (bore/stroke/degree of V?)

  Just wondering.....

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.1.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:27:29 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel hop cure

At 11:59 PM 5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Can't put traction bars on a tortion bar/ ciol spring suspension...use air
>> bags inside the springs.....or ladder bars....keep asking.....or consult
>> Chevelle racers...same rear setup as ours
>
>-Are you nuts??? Gm never used tortion bars on the rear or the front of
>any car

Well, the Toronado owners here on the list would like to refute that claim;
we've had torsion bars since 1966 (tough to run a halfshaft through a coil
spring). Then again, I think traction bars on the front of our cars would
look pretty silly (though wheelhop is definitely a problem we can face as
well).

Anyway, the operation of traction bars on a GM 4-link is unlike that of
"slapper" bars. The stock 4-link is very resistant to wheelhop, when it is
in good shape. Before "masking" any traction problems with add-on traction
devices, make sure that the bolts, bushings, shocks, springs, tires,
control-arm defects (cracks, flex, etc) or improper geometry (lifted or
lowered rear or front suspensions) are not the contributing factor to the
wheelhop.

Then, once you are sure that everything performs up to factory specs, you
can begin to investigate aftermarket solutions.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:35:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Just what is the difference

At 12:15 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok, this has been bugging me for too long:  I'm always being told that a
>pontiac 455 from a TA is the same as an oldsmobile, basically. I know

No, it's completely different. The 403 from the T/A is the same as an Olds
because, well, it is an Olds motor, used from '77-'79. And you can bolt in
an Olds 455 using the 403 mounts. But all factory T/A 455's were purely
Pontiac motors.

>the distributor's are in front, but just what are the majour internal

Only Buick's 455 had the front-mounted distributor.

>differences (bore/stroke/degree of V?)

Well, the bore and stroke are different, as are the castings, the bore
centers, the bearing sizes, the rod length, the valvetrain, intake and
exhaust manifolds, everything (ok, distributor caps interchange, but that
and the carb are *it*).

Who has always been telling you these shameful lies? ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:41:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 12:12 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
[snip]
>>>   Andy 72 'S' Red with Black stripes...
>Well Andy, that all depends on how you want your machine to handle.
>If you want a good hard launch here are a few cheap and easy ideas.
>   1. Take the anti-sway bar off

Front anti-sway bar, correct? The rear bar would help maintain traction.

>   2. Remove the bump-stops from under the upper con-arm

Again, you're talking the front here as well?

>   3. Try some higher\lower air pressure
>   4. Put some really soft springs in the rear
>The big picture here is to get the car to lift in the front and sit down at
>the back. These tricks really helped my 72 S(black,455 40 over,3.70 gear)to
>stick to the road.

Actually, doesn't the revised rear-end geometry of the aftermarket
control-arm relocation kits cause the rear to _raise_, rather than lower, on
launch? The idea behind this is to get the rear axle pushing down on the
tires, in relation to the car's body, rather than lifting the tires up into
the body, as the stock geometry does. In fact, the Buick GNX's torque arm
caused the rear to raise on launch, helping to plant the tires.

I'm not disputing the need for improving weight-transfer (which is what the
mods described above accomplish), but the contention that the best sign of
improved weight transfer is rear-end squat. That squat might just be wasted
energy.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 02:03:07 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 cutlass headers

> 2 bolts broke off in the head, so what i wound up doing was pulling the
> heads to have those bolts tapped out, while doing that i cleaned the rest
> of the engine compartment and made it look a whole hell of a lot better.
I
> figured that I would slide the header into place then put the head back
on,
> but even with that, i am still coming up a hair short, we just cant seem
to
> get that bitch in there...i know the damn headers arent worth all this
> trouble, but does anyone out there have a solution for me that doesnt
> involve dynamite and/or selling the car?

Find something that has no value, like an empty mayonaise jar, and smash it
to pieces.  That's what I do in a situation like this.  :)

No seriously, check to see what is causing the header not to fit.  You may
be able to dent the tubes slightly to make them fit.  Under HEDMAN HEDDERS,
small dents do not void the warranty.  I installed them on my '67 442 and
had to dent once on each side to clear the upper control arms.  If nothing
else, contact the manufacturer and see what they can do for you.  They can
offer advice to help you out.  When I contacted HEDMAN HEDDERS they
thoroughly answered all my questions.

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 02:09:53 -0300
Subject: Overheating

Without getting overheated, I've decided that there are some positive
aspects to having a thermostat to restrict, somewhat, the water flow;
therein keeping the water in the radiator longer.  (I understand that the
t'stat temperature is set to bring the engine to a certain operating point.
Say 195=BA F, and keep it there.  It has applications, at this temperature,
for both satisfactory engine operation, and emission control).  (This
discussion is dealing with conditions where the t'stat is absent or
inoperative, and not intended to perform for proper engine operation).

I totally agree with the wetter water aspects.  I personally use a cap (of
the bottle) full of Kodak Photo-Flo for that, and it works very well, at low
cost.

I do not totally agree that the radiators' tubes are not 'somewhat
constrictive' and would cause the flow to be disrupted in some manner or=
 other.

Here is where the my bottom line on this is:  if you constrict the flow, you
cause the fluid to 'speed up' past the constriction, that is it will
increase speed and go thru the radiator even faster after passing the
partially open t'stat (the constriction)!  WOULD NOT THIS BE DETREMENTAL TO
GOOD COOLING?

The logic here, seems to have become a totally obscured.

I believe that that the analogy between the racers constrictor plate, and
the t'stat are not at all comperable.  In a race engine, I believe that
there is a desire to have a constant and equal coolant flow, hence a
perforated plate added in the coolant passage ways.  I think that for racing
lower operational temperatures would be the main, as it allows more fuel
(cooler fuel is denser, hence greater b.t.u./gallon{or is it there's no fuel
like and old fuel}). [With the U.S. gallon anyway].  The higher temperatures
in everyday cars is emissions driven.

And the person that pointed out that the older cars were always having their
radiators topped off is entirely correct.  But then they were open to the
atmosphere, and any overflow left the car, and did not go into an overflow
bottle, where it could be returned to the cooling system.

Still not convinced.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 02:49:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 10:25 AM 5/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Andy Lawrence wrote:
>>
>> I have a 72  'S' with a severe wheel hop problem...It is a 10 bolt
>> Posi with 3.42 gears and 295-50-R15 Tires...Any cheap suggestions?
>
> Lakewood "NO HOP" bars work well and are undetectable unless ya lay
>under the car.  They relocate the upper rear control arms about 5 inches
>higher changing
>your cars center of gravity for the better.  A fairly easy bolt on and
>cheap too.
>

Yes.  I think Mr Gasket offers a set, as well.  My airbags ran about $60,
and I positively swear by them.  The Hop Stop bars relocate the upper mount
of the upper control arms, thereby moving the vehicle's instant center (I
think that's how it works...)  This in turn plants the tires harder, I
guess, and gives less chance of traction loss.  These are ~partially~
band-aids, but are very good ones at that.  The rear control arm bushings
should be checked, as should the stability of the control arms.  Stock ones
have a tendancy to flex a bit, and can lead to oscillations that can cause
hopping.  Good shocks can limit these oscillations also.  Air shocks don't
do them any justice.  If the back end is low enough to need a lift, either
get the air bags or taller springs, and leave the shock mounts alone to hold
something of value.  (Many of the worst wheel hop cases I've seen had air
shocks installed)

My recommended shopping list would be the AirBags, Monroe Sensa-Tracs (or
decent equivalent) Energy Suspension polyurethane rear control arm bushings,
and the Hop stop bars possibly.  You might consider going with a different
rear suspension system, also.  Lakewood and Hotchkiss (sp?) I believe both
offer modified control arm kits that not only offer stronger, flexproof
components, but also relocates the instant center to aid in planting the
tires stronger.

I remember those 295's.  God I loved those tires.  Nice footprints :)

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:24:25 -0300
Subject: Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)

At 12:49 AM 5/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3 X7402 wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for any publications on the Pontiac GTO any where from
>> 67-71. All books and manuals pertaining to the GTO for maintenance
>> perposes. that is my next project car.
>> much appreciated, and please send replies directly to me
>> Ben
>>
>> j3910@boxer.navy.mil
>
>Why don't you get on a GTO mailing list?
>This is Olds country. No offence, but I get enough junk mail allready.
>Marty
>68 442
>


Which is exactly why he added the "please send replies directly to me" line
there.  Perhaps, if there ~is~ a GTO mailing list, someone here might know
about it, and inform Ben of their address.  That way he could join one.  As
for the junk mail, it's all a matter of perspective.  I'm sure many of the
readers consider your reply junk mail, as well - perhaps more than his post.
Ben at least has a legitimate concern and a need for assistance, whereas you
are just complaining about the number of messages you see come across your
screen every day (with this being a particularly slow weekend, list-wise, I
don't even see any reason to take issue on it)  One of the main functions of
this list is to help fellow Olds enthusiasts, which he currently is.  The
desire to sell his faux-W30 concerns me, however, and I'm more inclined to
argue that point, instead of crying about his desire to learn about a future
purchase.  He also voiced a last minute plea (You may have noticed, you
apparantly weren't ~too~ busy deleting the off-topic posts:) that he would
like to find a ~real~ W-30.  A genuine plea for help that ~we~ could
adequately address here.  Instead, with a reply like that, he'd easily be
led to believe that Olds owners are, as a rule, a*sholes.  Which would give
him one more reason to buy a GTO.  Do we really want him to think that?
Yes, you're right, this ~is~ Olds country here, but I readily welcome any
Buick or Pontiac that cares to come for a visit, and will ~gladly~ allow
them to park right beside ~my~ faux-442 anyday.  (although I'd make 'em stay
about 1 fender length behind;)  The Buicks, Olds's, and Pontiacs are all
part of a under-represented group, and in my eyes, all three have well
earned my respect.  Now, ch*velles, on the other hand..... ;)  Well, I guess
they can park behind by neighbor's cam*ro :)

As for the junk mail problem, I'd say that's not our problem, either.  I
don't know what you consider junk mail, but I'm sure there's an unsub*
command that would clear up some of that problem.  I'm currently linked to
three majordummy list-servers, and if any of them send me too much junk, all
I have to do is type two words.  Not too tough to deal with.  One of the
servers sends me garbage every now and again, but I don't mind.  When
nestled in with the thousand or so quality posts I get here, those two or
three all-list deals really don't amount to much at all.  I don't want to
start any flames here, but I don't see anything wrong with Ben's post,
except that he could have put GTO Pubs in the subject line, instead of just
PUBS.  Even so, it was short and to the point, so I have absolutely no
problems with it, and I'd venture to assume that many others here are in
complete agreement.

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:24:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Toro GT

At 01:42 PM 5/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Spotted a 70 toro GT in the boneyard this weekend. a real cheap place too.
>all the parts are inventoried and prepriced, so they can't charge you more
>for
>fine olds parts. the entire driveline is there, except the carb. looks all
>original
>but crashed. it has a 455 4brl? E heads! Are these big Valve? i can get the
>
>motor for a 100 bux. any motor there is 100 bux. sounds like a deal. can
>anyone
>tell me if this is a high compression engine, or has a steel crank?

If it's a runnable engine, get it!  That's should be the "biga*s bada*s"
motor of the era:)  They should be big valve, if original.  What were these
stock?  400 hp/510 ft.lbs, right?  Where are you at?  I might have to
visit.......  :)


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:24:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating followup

>
>Then, the check engine light comes on.  Pull over, check engine (yup,
>it's an engine all right ;-)  ), plug in my official GM diagnostic paper
>clip and pull a code 15, low coolant temp.  I just had to laugh, now the
>car's complaining because it's too cold!  I just checked all the
>temperature sensor connectors, and reset the computer and we'll see if
>that does the trick.  It shouldn't complain, since I've been running the
>same temp (180 degrees) and brand of thermostat for 1 1/2 years with no
>problems.  If it continues to complain I suppose I could always trade up
>my Hypertech chip for the Hypertech thermo-master version which expects
>a cooler thermostat.

Or, you ~could~ put a resistor in parallel with the coolant sensor, to trick
the computer into seeing a lower resistance, therefore a higher temp...  :)


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:34:19 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel hop cure

>-Are you nuts??? Gm never used tortion bars on the rear or the front of
>any car, Mopar used them on the front.

Never say never :)  The early Toros used torsion bar front suspension, but I
don't know how long they used them for.  I'd imagine they've gone to struts
now, but I don't know when the switch occured...


>and you can get traction bars for coil-spring cars.  I had them on my 79
>they stopped the wheel hop but didn't cure the tracton prob.
>try boxing in your lower control arms,that will make a day/night
>difference or get some 442 ones
>they are boxed from the fact.

Yeppppp....  Boxing 'em in helps reduce the tendancy to flex.

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: "Luke Hogan" <hogan442@c-gate.net>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:27:27 -0300
Subject: Torq. Spic's.  &  Other questions

Hi everybody,I have a few questions i need help with.1ST.
What  are the torque spic's for the  mains cap bearing, head bolts, torque
converter & intake?  I looked            in the facts but did'nt see any.
Oh it's a 455 w/ alum. w-30 intake .               2ND.  After i got
the engine out i noticed that there was two small vacuum hoses coming out
of the firewall, i know that they go to the a/c controlls inside & that one
goes to the vacuum canister on the firewall, but have no clue  where the
other one goes?  3RD.  From the factory was the water pump painted
the same color as the motor?THANKS  ALOT  FOR   ANY  HELP
            Luke

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:33:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 68

On Mon, 19 May 1997, Graham Cain wrote:
> > You must be right, I don't a own Supreme, but does the Cutlass 'S' have a
> different hood and tail lights depending on the engine, because I am pretty
> sure I have a 442 hood and tail lights and only a six cylinder. Any
> additional info you have on the 'S' with this configuration, as well as any
> other location where I can obtain other information on my car would greatly
> appreciated.

All '68 "S" models came with the 4-4-2 hood and the same taillights, as
you described. As for more info, you might be able to get some from GM
Historical Services in Oshawa. 1-800-263-3777, costs $42.80. According to
a another list member, you get a lot of information about it including all
the options that the car came with, where and when it was built, which
Dealership it was sold from, how many of that particular model were
produced for sale in Canada etc.  You also get a 30 page AMA
Specifications book on the car (ie. Upper Compression Ring - Cast Iron
with Crowned and Molybdenum Plated O.D., Width: 0.0770-0.0780, Gap:
0.013-0.023).  You also get a 67 page Vintage Vehicle Restoration Guide.
The table of contents is:  Introduction, General Motors - How it all
Began, In Canada - The Early Years, A General Motors Family Album,
Important GM Dates, Some General Information, A Word about Shop Manuals,
GM Restoration Parts Licensing Program, Car Clubs, Services (34 pages of
parts places and services with descriptions of what they specialize in),
Literature.

Also, check the FAQ at www.442.com (as always)... hope this helps.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:58:00 -0300
Subject: Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)

Charley Buehner wrote:
>
> ...and I'd venture to assume that many others here are in
> complete agreement.

At least one other.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:53:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

Hey Doc,

> Actually, doesn't the revised rear-end geometry of the aftermarket
> control-arm relocation kits cause the rear to _raise_, rather than lower, on
> launch? The idea behind this is to get the rear axle pushing down on the
> tires, in relation to the car's body, rather than lifting the tires up into
> the body, as the stock geometry does. In fact, the Buick GNX's torque arm
> caused the rear to raise on launch, helping to plant the tires.

Well you brought something to my mind.  When I first got my 68 442, when
I punched
it from a dead stop I got the feeling that the rear of the car was
lifting itself
up.  I thought something was wrong.  It was like the car was running
through a
puddle of water and not wanting to get her pants wet (I know it sounds
strange).
The car has now since stopped that and I don't know why.  Is this good?
bad? whatever?

Let me know.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:37:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass moldings

Those moldings of which you speak are not chrome, they're stainless. If you
don't have dents or major scratches, you can have them polished. Not cheap,
but considerably cheaper than buying an NOS set. Ron Memmer had a complete
set he had put together, but they will be expensive. Ron's number is
(219)583-9763.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Curt Salada <csalada@astea.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:53:12 -0300
Subject: RE: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª679

>From: Kevin O'Brien <obrienk@sunynassau.edu>
>Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 01:56:55 -0300
>Subject: Re: T-Stats & Overheating
>
>...
>Does anybody know the best stat on the market??
>The best I've done so far is a "Heavy Duty Robertshaw" which only $2
>more than the standard $5 RobtShaw which is a piece of crap. Who
>wouldn't pay 2X the price for a t-stat of quality?
>Kevin O'Brien 78-98
>
>------------------------------

Try a Gates thermostat.

Curt Salada
1971 Cutlass for sale -- see it at
http://scils.rutgers.edu/~djcohen/curt/olds

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:41:10 -0300
Subject: One for the Cutlass folks

Well, over the weekend at a vintage car race, I was walking into the
paddock area and a blue Ch*velle ragtop was pulling out.   Instantly,
thoughts of 442, SX, and Cutlass owners rushed into my head, reiterating those
 words hated by everyone ....  "Nice Ch*velle!".  Seeing the moment, I
turned to my friend and said (loud enough for the driver and his girlfriend
to hear) - "Gee, that's a nice looking CUTLASS!"  We proceeded a few steps
when the driver turned around and shouted "Sorry, this ain't no Cutlass!"

If you could only see the surprised look on his face!!!!  I'm sure he
was calling me all sorts of names afterwards, but it sure was worth
it!

Have a good day!

Mike
'91 442
'93 SCX

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:13:22 -0300
Subject: Re: One for the Cutlass folks

Mike was There For All of Us When He Said:

> Instantly,  thoughts of 442, SX, and Cutlass owners rushed into my head,
> reiterating those  words hated by everyone ....  "Nice Ch*velle!".
> Seeing the moment, I
> turned to my friend and said (loud enough for the driver and his
> girlfriend to hear) - "Gee, that's a nice looking CUTLASS!"  We
> proceeded a few steps when the driver turned around and shouted
> "Sorry, this ain't no Cutlass!"

Now, you got 'im good enough Mike, and hind-sight is always of 20/20 vision;
but a good 'slam-dunk' to his attempt at a retort would've been to then squint
at his car for a second, and then, with a look of disgust/contempt, say
"Yeah, yer right -- What a pity!" :)




Tim (Tired of Compliments on My Ch*v*lle Too) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Chev... err, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:36:26 -0300
Subject: Web Page Update - OCA

Attention : Anyone w/ bookmarks or links to the OCA web page at my site,
the address changed Sunday night.  The updated page is now:
"http://www.erols.com/brad442/ocahome.html"  I took out the capital
letters in the name.  (Just realized WWW naming convention standards
over the weekend)  The old page is still up and will be removed in a
couple months.  I'll put up a "detour" sign there tonight.  New stuff
at the OCA site:
- - FRAMES !
- - LINKS to a couple corporate sites and OCA members pages. (Any more OCA
members want a link there also, send me your URL and a short 1 line
description.  Also, Jeff Easton's link URL is all goofed up from the page,
it's not his fault.)
- - LINKS to the HOCA, Northern Lights Chapters and Oldsmobile
Centennial Club (The one I'm president of....shameless plug)

Remeber to set your dial to:
http://www.erols.com/brad442/ocahome.html

Also Steve DeNovi saw it for the first time about a week ago at Penny
Casteele's place.  Basically it was the first internet experience for
both him and his wife Sandi.  They were shown the current page and was
quite impressed w/ Bryceman's page, especially the Oldsmobile owner's
gallery of cars. Another tip of the hat to the innovator of
Oldsmobile's presence on the web.

Well, I'll see what I can add next weekend.  Baby's due tomorrow and
the wife isn't showing any signs of moving things along, but DANG is
she ready to get it overwith.  If it's a boy  - Elias Fredrick
(spelling's wrong).  I didn't realize 'till after we made final our
decision that Eli was Ransom Olds middle name, gosh how the
subconcious works.

Girl's name, Emma Ruth.  Delta was eliminated loooooooong ago. "We're
not naming our child after a dumb car!!" - Donna Nicholson, mother of
child

Any and all comments/critisisms appreciated.

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - Future Chapter of OCA
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
(H) brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442
OCA Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/OCAHome.html

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:39:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators/Overheating

Travis wrote about latent heat:
>         Nice try but the facts are this.  Not having a thermosat will do
> a couple of things.  ª1 it DOESN'T allow the coolant enough time in the
> engine to pick up the latent heat it is trying to remove.  Coolant does
> <SNIP>

If we assume that there is coolant in contact with the surfaces that
are to be cooled we can sure derive the facts below:
ª1 The cooling efficiency is dependent on the thermal conductivity
   of the coolant and the cooled material
ª2 The cooling efficiency is also dependent on the temperature
difference
   between the coolant and the cooled item

If the coolant would stay still in the engine block, everybody knows
what will happen, the coolant would turn into steam. That is because
the coolant itself does not conduct heat. That is the reason why
the coolant must be moved around.

On my opinion the cooling comes the better the faster You move the
coolant. Assuming that there is no dirt in bottom of the black and
that the hoses won't collapse etc...

Scenario:
There is sediment in bottom of the cooling system that begins to
circulate
with the coolant as it's speed rises. Depending on how huge pieces there
are they might glog some passages thus causing local overheating in
some parts of the engine.

Scenario:
The lower coolant hose may collapse if the water pump sucks more water
that the cooler core can put through. This is not serious as long as the
hose expands to it's original form. The slight under-pressure inside the
block causes some early boiling but this is not harmful as it actually
lowers the temperature inside the engine.

<SNIP>
> transfer. Nor does it allow the coolant enough time in the radiator to
> remove that heat that it has taken from the engine.  Which also takes
<SNIP>
The effiency of a radiator is dependant on the temperature difference
between it's surface and the air. It is essential to keep that
difference
as big as possible. That is, keep the radiator as hot as possible and
the air as cool as possible. ( Don't put a blanket over the radiator...
)

Also, the effiency is directly proportional on the area of the radiator.
If You remove all the leaves, bees, mice-poo etc, the cooling will
come better.

Also, the colour and surface structure can make a difference.

I can't find any physical facts, that would support the idea of an
engine running hotter when it's radiator's temperature is kept as close
as possible to the block temperature (==high velocity coolant).

Instead many facts support the idea that some particles are glogging
part of the cooling system causing spotted overheating->steaming.


- --
Esko & Anneli Ilola

Mail:  Flintstensstigen 7B5     Tel: +358 2040 3439
       01610 VANDA FINLAND           +358 40 5575 116

Email: esko.ilola@tele.fi         \\\___
                              0\\\  o  ;/\\
Oldsmobile Ninety Eight       \\        \/ \
1964 4D HT                    //////\ //\   \
Holiday Sports Sedan                // \\   \

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:57:00 -0300
Subject: '67 442 ?'s

Folks,

I went to look at a '67 442 conv. last Friday.  It had a D casting
425 in it.  As I was calling the man's bluff; he told me that a very small
number of late '67s had 425s as there were no more E casting 400s.

This car had a 07C build and a VIN ª above 400,000.  I think he was
pulling my leg, what do you all think??

Car was black, black, black and _very_ nice.

It had Y-2 paint code and 988-B trim code, aren't these the codes for
yellow ext., yellow int., and a black top??

Thanks,
Mike Turley      '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:15:04 -0300
Subject: One for the Cutlass folks

OL>Well, over the weekend at a vintage car race, I was walking into the
OL>paddock area and a blue Ch*velle ragtop was pulling out.   Instantly,
OL>thoughts of 442, SX, and Cutlass owners rushed into my head, reiterating
tho OL>words hated by everyone ....  "Nice Ch*velle!".  Seeing the moment, I
OL>turned to my friend and said (loud enough for the driver and his
OL>girlfriend to hear) - "Gee, that's a nice looking CUTLASS!"  We
OL>proceeded a few steps when the driver turned around and shouted OL>"Sorry,
this ain't no Cutlass!"

OL>If you could only see the surprised look on his face!!!!  I'm sure he
OL>was calling me all sorts of names afterwards, but it sure was worth
OL>it!

OL>Have a good day!

OL>Mike
OL>'91 442
OL>'93 SCX


Hip Hip Hooray!!!
Hip Hip Hooray!!!
Hip Hip Hooray!!!

When he told you "Sorry, this ain't no Cutlass" you should of replied
Yup just another Chevelle.

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:57:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Just what is the difference

Eric Aksomitis wrote:
>
> Ok, this has been bugging me for too long:  I'm always being told that a
> pontiac 455 from a TA is the same as an oldsmobile, basically. I know
> the distributor's are in front, but just what are the majour internal
> differences (bore/stroke/degree of V?)
>
>   Just wondering.....
>

The question is "what is the same?" The p*ncho and Olds 455s are
completely different. The distributor on an Olds is in the back. The
intakes are of differing designs and the heads cannot be interchanged.
The only thing that is similar is the displacement. I think what you are
talking about is the 403. p*ntiac used the Olds 403 in some of the late
'70s mas narTs (tr*ns *m as seen in the rear view mirror).

Danny (whose owned more Olds 455s than you can shake a shifter at)

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:26:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

OL>The big picture here is to get the car to lift in the front and sit down at
OL>the back. These tricks really helped my 72 S(black,455 40 over,3.70 gear)to
OL>stick to the road.

OL>Sean
OL>Toronto ON.Canada

On a 4 link suspended car if the rear squats when you launch the control
arms will lift the rear end. You want the rear of the car to lift so
that the rear suspention will push the rear end down. First and most
important you want to make sure the rear suspension is in good shape any
traction helping devices you add will put more stress on your suspension
parts. Then start adding traction aids if there still needed.

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:27:20 -0300
Subject: Re: PUBS (this isn't a GTO mailing list)

>>Why don't you get on a GTO mailing list?
>>This is Olds country. No offence, but I get enough junk mail allready.

>
 he'd easily be
>led to believe that Olds owners are, as a rule, a*sholes.  Which would give
>him one more reason to buy a GTO.  Do we really want him to think that?
>Yes, you're right, this ~is~ Olds country here, but I readily welcome any
>Buick or Pontiac that cares to come for a visit,




Kudos to you Charley!  I couldn't agree more!  There are very helpful
people on this list who are vested in many areas of expertese and are more
than willing to offer advice or even help with "connections" or whereabouts
of cars, parts and idividuals with certain knowledge that can solve
problems.

I felt a little gun shy about asking my question about bandwidth a few
weeks ago,  but all of the replys and help that came in were great.  It was
totally non-Olds, but help still arrived!  That is what makes this group so
great!  We for the most part will put in our 2 cents to anyone who asks!

I am an Olds enthusiast first, and a car enthusiast second.  We all have
something in common with ANYONE who is into preservation and care of
cars/trucks/boats/ whatever.  It is our hobby!

Coming across as you say...a*sholes is just what we can't have.  It give us
a pompus image like we are holier than thou.  I for one will offer any help
I can whenever I can!

Thanks again Charly for a great reply!  Now if I can just get you to stop
bashing Chevys!!  :)

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 W/4-speed
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS
65 Jetstar 88 Saved from demo derby!

 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_


                                        Tony Waldner
tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us                   Northeast Metro 916
                                         3300 Century Ave. N.
                                         White Bear Lake, MN
                                                       55110

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