To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #621


oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 19 April 1997      Volume 01 : Number 621

Re: Stripe Options
Re: 66 VIN again
Re: test
Re: questions
Re: What is this? WAS attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners NON-OLDS!!!
Re: NO MORE OF THIS JUNK !
Re: New Toro VIN
75 olds cutlass s
Re: New Toro VIN
Re: New Toro VIN
Re: head games
Re: 81 cutlass & katana name...
Re: head games
Re: New Toro VIN
Re: Pony cars (WAS Re: "Real" Musclecars)
Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)
Re: "Real" Musclecars
Re: Headers For The 425?
Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)
Re: New Toro VIN
Looking for olds 442 w-30
72 Cutlass For Sale
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª619
Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)
Re: Clock...
Re: Headers For The 425?: OOPS !
Re: 81 cutlass & katana name...
New addition:  ~Rockit 6!~
some 455 questions
Re: Clock...
Re: some 455 questions
Re: head games
Re: head games
Re: attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners
Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)
Re: Non-Olds: Scary Sight (long)
Olds 78 tape
Re: 72 Cutlass For Sale
455 installed -- not runing yet though
Windowfelt
Anyone Going to Vallejo?
Re: Anyone Going to Vallejo?
Re: New Toro VIN
Re: Headers For The 425?: OOPS !
Re: 72 Cutlass For Sale

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:26:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Stripe Options

On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:

> Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
> Thanks Phil!

Look, I know this plh business confuses alot you, but my name is Paul,
like in my signature line and the above reply line.  plh are my intials :)

> If you don't mind me asking, what color stripes would have gone with
> Teal Frost (Option F)?  Thanks in advance

G.T. stripes where available in the following colors in Teal Frost cars:

A Black
C White
R Red

O Orange was the only color NOT available.

*Paul* Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:35:32 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 VIN again

On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, LAURA D. STEINKE wrote:

> While we are on the subject of decoding VIN numbers for 66 Delta 88's
> perhaps someone can finish this one...

> C - ??? (Sold in texas though)

C is the plant code for the plant in South Gate, Ca.

> Any takers?  Thanks.

Nah, you can have it.  I have enough cars already.


Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Blair Rendell <brendell@nfld.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:41:33 -0300
Subject: Re: test

At 12:49 AM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>This is a test
>
>
HEY!!!!  it works!  Now we can cyber message each utter...cool...

Blair......and Russ..    ;)>
>

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:45:35 -0300
Subject: Re: questions

On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Clayton Pierce wrote:

> Seriously, though, the '56 is one of my favorite year Oldses.  You might
> try 1-800-FAST-88S.  They carry a lot of parts for the mid 50's cars.
> Other than that, since you are from Kansas, I would have suggested Hall's,
> but sadly, they are no more :~-(

I advise you to go out at buy an issues of the latest Hemmings Motor News
and look at the Oldsmobile Parts for Sale ads.  I bought a transmission
seal kit about 5 years ago for my '52 from an ad in Hemmings.  There are a
few places that deal with transmission parts.  I was luck to be able to
get a rear clutch drum through the local transmission repair shop.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:51:52 -0300
Subject: Re: What is this? WAS attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners NON-OLDS!!!

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> **ATTENTION THIS IS VERY, VERY NON-OLDS RELATED. those with sensitive
> feelings should hit "delete" now before reading
> further.................................. Anyways it is odd
> having a Z/28 and a Mustang setting next to each other now.....I can feel
> the tension in the air.
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
> 93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
> 89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
> 80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293

Jason,

I saw your new addition a few days ago, but didn't think it
extraordinary considering that you have a Ch*vy.  Those are both fine
(though not superior) automobiles.  Let us know how they compare over
the long term.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:55:02 -0300
Subject: Re: NO MORE OF THIS JUNK !

> > >
> > > JFOWLER@capecod.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ossipee104@aol.com wrote:

> > > > > I REALLY DON'T CARE THAT JOE BLOW BOUGHT A NEW CAR, AND THAT IT IS
RED. > > > > > PLEASE DON'T SEND ME ANY MORE. I SEEM TO BE FINDING MORE OLDS
PART SOURCES ON > > > > > MY OWN THAN THROUGH THIS THING SORRY IF I OFFEND
YOU, I REALLY DID NOT MEAN > > > > > TO > > > > > > > > Joe Blow just bought a
new car?  When, he didn't tell me!!


I didn't even know that he was on the list.  He is probably one of these
quiet ones like me.  The car may not have been mentioned because it
isn't an Olds.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:03:39 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

Here is the VIN for my newest addition.  I accidentally sent this to Greg
alone (somehow) so I'll try again.

396876H521278

Don't have the cowl tag as I'm not picking it up until tomorrow.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project, '66 Toronado

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: DJV442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:16:36 -0300
Subject: 75 olds cutlass s

i recently purchased above vehicle.it is a 124 special new england
edition(badge on trunklid).if anyone knows what this edition is all about or
have heard of it,any info would be greatly appreciated...thanks....please
respond to DJV442@AOL.COM

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:47:54 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

Let's see what I can do Lisa

> 396876H521278

3 = Oldsmobile
9687 = Toronado Deluxe
6 = 1966
H = assembly plant (Flint, MI ?)
521278 = your Toro's "*special*" number :-)

I'm not sure on that assembly plant, I couldn't find any record of a plant
with the code "H" until later than your car... of course, if I was at home
rather than at work, then it would make things a lot easier as I could
consult my books :-)

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
The ***OFFICIAL*** Editor of the Olds FAQ
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

Get a copy of the Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com
http://www.en.com/users/thall
http://www.cybercity.hko.net/ulan_bator/gee/oldsfaq/oldsfaq3.html

Or FTP a "zipped" version from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:07:11 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Clayton Pierce wrote:

> Let's see what I can do Lisa
>
> > 396876H521278
>
> 3 = Oldsmobile
> 9687 = Toronado Deluxe
> 6 = 1966
> H = assembly plant (Flint, MI ?)
> 521278 = your Toro's "*special*" number :-)
>
> I'm not sure on that assembly plant, I couldn't find any record of a plant
> with the code "H" until later than your car... of course, if I was at home
> rather than at work, then it would make things a lot easier as I could
> consult my books :-)

I think that H must be a mistake, as all Toronados from '66 up thru I
think '77 came out of the Lansing plant, which is an M.

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:05:20 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

At 11:03 AM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
>> And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?
>
>Huh?  What are you trying to say here?
>
>Chris Sparks
>
>
>
Chris,

Get ahead of the game, and go down to your burette store and buy one, and
send it to the poor disadvantaged boy a mite east of you.

The Wiz

P.S. Just in case there are no burette stores nearby where you live, like
there is where I live; it is a piece of chemistry glass, graduated for the
dispensing of liquids.

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:09:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 81 cutlass & katana name...

In a message dated 97-04-17 23:26:46 EDT, you write:

<< Ahh, I see...  I'd stumbled upon a web page months ago that showed a newer
 streetbike and a 57 Buick (which I have also:) and I seem to recall he had
 his bike in his E-mail address somehow.  I guess that answers the question
 for me, sorry for any confusion...  (I personally feel speed should not
 sacrifice safety, comfort and luxury, and that those items simply cannot be
 achieved on two wheels only, therefore, I'm slightly biased against those
 crotch rockets, too...)  Never knew that about the swords, tho'

 Later :) >>

Hey!, Hey!...  Now watch what you say...   :).  You tired of getting "spanked
by the bike guys?  :)  Yeah, comforts are nice, there's just something about
finding some idiot kid in mommas new Vette, or Porche, or whatever, that
thinks he's King of the road, and wants to try and "run" ya.  A good lesson
in humility, and an appreciation for what's really fast out on the road.
 (Not much more fun than finding a guy in a new  '89 Corvette and showing him
what acceleration mean by starting at 45 mhp down the road and dropping into
first gear (my bike did 55 mph at redline in first, when you were shifting),
a lesson I'll bet he didn't forget too fast...).

Chris Ruper
Chris' Kawasaki GPz750 Homepage
http://members.aol.com/CRuper1/index.htm

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:19:23 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

At 12:53 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>At 12:15 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>>At 10:03 AM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>>>
>>>> And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?
>>>
>>>Huh?  What are you trying to say here?
>>
>>OK, it's a long tube with markings on it in cubic centimeters, and it has a
>>little valve on the bottom to measure out precise amounts of liquid. I have
>>*NO* idea where you would buy one of them.
>
>The Fisher Scientific Catalog has 11 pages worth of them.  A "standard"
>buret like you might find a chemistry lab with a capacity of 50 mL costs
>very roughly around $100.  Seems like a lot for a long glass tube until you
>realize that the cost comes in the precision volume measurements (typically
>to plus or minus 0.05 mL) that can be obtained from them.
>
>Who is thinking of doing some titrations?
>
>
>**************************************
>Daniel A. Gulino
>gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
>http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
>1975 Delta 88 Convertible
>**************************************
>
>
Wouldn't a titration be a Siamese Hindu: meditating?

Anon. I.

P.S. I think someone is going to measure the combustion chamber volumes in
Olds heads.

------------------------------

From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:21:29 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

Okay, that makes sense, it would be easy to mistake an "H" for and "M"

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
The ***OFFICIAL*** Editor of the Olds FAQ
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu

Get a copy of the Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com
http://www.en.com/users/thall

Or FTP a "zipped" version from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds.


On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Paul Hartlieb wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Clayton Pierce wrote:
>
> > Let's see what I can do Lisa
> >
> > > 396876H521278
> >
> > 3 = Oldsmobile
> > 9687 = Toronado Deluxe
> > 6 = 1966
> > H = assembly plant (Flint, MI ?)
> > 521278 = your Toro's "*special*" number :-)
> >
> > I'm not sure on that assembly plant, I couldn't find any record of a plant
> > with the code "H" until later than your car... of course, if I was at home
> > rather than at work, then it would make things a lot easier as I could
> > consult my books :-)
>
> I think that H must be a mistake, as all Toronados from '66 up thru I
> think '77 came out of the Lansing plant, which is an M.
>
> Paul Hartlieb
> plh@leba.net
> '67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
> '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:23:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Pony cars (WAS Re: "Real" Musclecars)

At 01:01 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>> > A pony car is one of the Mustang genre.  Mustang = pony.  It all started
>> > with the 1964-1/2 Mustang.  A pony car is one that emulates the
Musgang.  It
>> > is not necessarily one of great power and performance.  A muscle car
>>
>> <Muscle car anecdotes snipped>
>>
>> OK, here's what I've understood to be the definition of a 'pony car':
>>
>> When Lee Iacoca's group came up with the Mustang, it was conceived as
>> a small sporty car based upon the Falcon/Comet floorpan and drivetrains,
>> their compact unibody lines.  This made for a very light car.
>
>Yup.  The way I've always understood it, a ponycar was just a
>sporty car that had a long hood, and short trunk following the lines of
>the Mustang, or GMs equivilant.  I think the 'Cuda would fit into this
>catagory as well.
>
>Scott
>1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
>
>
>
Scott,

Now I think you are confusing what some pony cars are, instead of where the
term originated.  My explaniation was simply that; as well as a small amount
of related history.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:34:09 -0300
Subject: Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)

At 01:29 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>> >Check any science supply stores. You might need to go mail order to one of
 >> >these places. The big sci. store near myself only has 40cc and they want
 >> >big bucks! > >Doc Bob muses: > >> Hmmm, I guess I've never noticed a
"Beakers 'R' Us" in any of the nearby >> malls. I'll have to look harder
(seriously, I didn't know that stores such >> as this existed). > >Bob, if you
really want one, I could ask my wife, the biologist (her name >is Ruth, and
she *hates* it when I call her Dr. you-know-who :) ) to maybe >find an old
100ml one at work, assuming they're not really worth $100. >White collar crime
and all that.  Then, when I finally do make it to one of >those Berejik meets,
I could bring it. > > > >Tim Churchill >------------- >'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red' >'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der
KinderWagen' >'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced' > > Tim,

Do you realize that these are the same people that were waxing friviously
about buying a 'cheap' Radio Shack VOM?  Years ago, when I bought my Simpson
Meter I felt it would have been cheap at twice the price, although the
little roll top cover has disintigrated after 30+ years use, and it isn't
digital either; one must read between the lines to get a reading.

I really don't believe that they need such a precision instrument.   Do you
think that they can really get the head perfectly level to work on?  On a
combustion chamber that large, how do you develope and gauge the meniscus?
A 10% error isn't even problematical with this project.  I guess I just
don't know.  This is going to be 50/50 guess work, and a good metric
measuring glass should suffice, with an eyedropper to dispense the liquid.

The Wiz really wonders this time?

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:45:54 -0300
Subject: Re: "Real" Musclecars

At 06:52 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>> With the instant success that these cars provided, it was not long before
>> Chevy, and Olds joined in too.  At that time, Buick had just introduced
>> their Riveria, and it seemed to placate the Buick group.  And the other
U.S. >> makers joined in too.  Even, AMC built a car that sort of competed. >>
 >> The Wiz >> > > >"AMC built a car that SORT OF competed"???? .....
Drive an 68-70 AMX >390 sometime :) > > As I recall the AMX did not have a
back seat.  It's been 20-25 years since I was in one, so that part may be a
bit hazy; but it was the 2 seaters aspect that I was refering too as 'sort of'
as it would only 'sort of' compete with a 4 place car.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: Tony Waldner <tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:04:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers For The 425?

At 09:08 PM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>  There are plenty of headder manufacturers that make headders that will fit
>your application such as Hooker, Heddman, Cyclone, Eagle, and Doug Thorley --
> the 425 Olds engine is externally the same in every dimension as the 455.
>
>              Hope that helpls some,
>
>                                                 J2RKT@aol.com
>
>Sorry Gang....

There are NO header manufacturers for the '65-70 B body cars due to the
location of the stearing gear.  If you look at the tight fit between the
engine and the behind the front wheel location of the steering gear you can
see why.  In  1971 GM put the steering gear in front of the wheels like the
Cutlass cars, so you will see headers available for '71 to '76 Delta cars.
These will NOT fit the earlier models.

Back in the late '70's I spent a whole weekend trying to put headers on my
Father's '65 Jetstar 88 that I put a '67 425 into.  The passenger side fit
perfect.....But forget that divers side!  Headers by Ed would custom make a
set....700 bucks!    Forget it!

Hope this helps too.......

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-spd
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS
>

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:16:12 -0300
Subject: Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)

At 11:34 PM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I really don't believe that they need such a precision instrument.   Do you
>think that they can really get the head perfectly level to work on?  On a
>combustion chamber that large, how do you develope and gauge the meniscus?

I did wonder (and still do) where all the air in the chamber is supposed to
escape to, when the water is measured in. Should there be a vent hole
drilled in the plexiglass?

>A 10% error isn't even problematical with this project.  I guess I just

Well, 10% of 80cc is 8cc, which is enough to raise or lower compression by a
point or two. That might be a problem. +/- a cc or so is not a biggie, though.

>don't know.  This is going to be 50/50 guess work, and a good metric
>measuring glass should suffice, with an eyedropper to dispense the liquid.

Hmmm, how many dropperfuls does it take to measure out 80cc.

Actually, an accurate turkey-baster would work just fine; anyone got one
graduated in cc's?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:35:29 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

Since this was read to me over the phone - its entirely possible!  I'll see
tomorrow and post the cowl tag also.

Did they make 30,000 something Deluxe's in '66?  Trying to remember what I
read in Setting the Pace......


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project, '66 Toronado

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Al Sutton <alsutton@xl.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:51:40 -0300
Subject: Looking for olds 442 w-30

To all you Olds enthusiasts,

I am looking for a 1970, 442 W-30, 4-speed, hardtop. Must be numbers
matching and in good to excellent condition. I currently own a 1972, W-30,
convertible that has been in my family since 1979 (love those Oldsmobiles!).
My father is into the fifties stuff and my brother has the sister car to
mine, a 1972, W-30, 4-speed, convertible. So, I need to find my '70 to
complete my collection.

Any good tips would be appreciated!

Al Sutton
Vancouver, BC, Canada.

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:54:10 -0300
Subject: 72 Cutlass For Sale

We have a beautiful 72 Cutlass Supreme 2dr for sale. 350 4bbl, Auto, A/C,
SSII's, Disc Brakes, Dual Exhaust, NOS Grilles, NOS Rear Bumper, Recent
Eagle ST tires, shocks, brakes, front end, exhaust. 350 has mild cam and 3
angle valve job with new carb, TH350 rebuilt with shift kit, electronic
distibutor conversion. Car is green with white PAINTED roof (documented).
All paperwork from day one. Asking $6500.00 obo.

Jim Chermack
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: MPN1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:38:19 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª619

please remove

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:46:17 -0300
Subject: Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)

At 01:16 AM 4/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>At 11:34 PM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I really don't believe that they need such a precision instrument.   Do=
 you
>>think that they can really get the head perfectly level to work on?  On a
>>combustion chamber that large, how do you develope and gauge the meniscus?
>
>I did wonder (and still do) where all the air in the chamber is supposed to
>escape to, when the water is measured in. Should there be a vent hole
>drilled in the plexiglass?
>
>>A 10% error isn't even problematical with this project.  I guess I just
>
>Well, 10% of 80cc is 8cc, which is enough to raise or lower compression by=
 a
>point or two. That might be a problem. +/- a cc or so is not a biggie,=
 though.
>
>>don't know.  This is going to be 50/50 guess work, and a good metric
>>measuring glass should suffice, with an eyedropper to dispense the liquid.
>
>Hmmm, how many dropperfuls does it take to measure out 80cc.
>
>Actually, an accurate turkey-baster would work just fine; anyone got one
>graduated in cc's?
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>

Isn't this an Imperical study to determine about the volume of the
combustion chambers.  If one is 80ml +/- 10%, and another is 125ml +/- 10%
you will be able to get some approximations as to the relative values of the
alphabet heads.  Of course you need some accurate standard to benchmark the
work.  Where does one find that, where it is better than 10%.  I'll bet the
Oldsmobile figures lie by this much.

Also, a turkey baster might work just fine.  The baster doesn't need to be
graduated at all, but the measuring cup does.  Load the baster, fill up the
combustion chamber, and then put the balance back in the cup.  If the head
is level, and the meniscus is accurately plumed, then this method should
come well within 10%.

If I was doing this measuring, I would do all 4 holes, and then run a
average.  In truth I'll bet the castings can vary the combustion chamber by
several percent.

Also, I missed finding out what kind of car, Joe Blow bought today?

The Wix

OK, I've got it.  Buy a accurate scale, a very accurate scale.  Put the head
on, and then add water until the chamber is full.  Take the first weight
less the second weight, and you have exactly 1ml/gram.  Also make the water
and he ambient 20=BAC I think, so that water does weight 1 gram/c.c.  The
temperature must be standardized for the water measurement method too.  How
much outage will that cause, if the ambient is 7%=BA F?

------------------------------

From: Kabootski@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:58:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Clock...

Mike;

Good old JC Whitney, home of bad chrome and other tasteless, cheesy car
parts, doesn't offer that part anymore.  I even stopped in the store on
Cermak (Daley kicked 'em out of the State Street store to make room for more
condos) and they said they didn't have it.

I've been trying to talk a friend of mine who came to Chicago from Wyoming to
browse a JC Whitney catalog and go crazy with customizing stuff for her
truck.  She didn't get the joke 'till I went down Ogden with her and showed
her some of the lovely vehicles on the West side.  Now she gets the joke.

JC Whitney might be good for a few things, but you should hear how us
Chicagoans rip them a new... hole in the top for some of the things they
sell.

Duane

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 04:03:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers For The 425?: OOPS !

  Sorry about that folks -- i didn't think about the steering box location --
i should have known better especially since i just pulled a 455 and TH400
from a 70 Delta Royale.

       Just out of curiosity -- are Delta Royales very collectable ???

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:16:16 -0300
Subject: Re: 81 cutlass & katana name...

>Hey!, Hey!...  Now watch what you say...   :).  You tired of getting "spanked
>by the bike guys?  :)  Yeah, comforts are nice, there's just something about
>finding some idiot kid in mommas new Vette, or Porche, or whatever, that
>thinks he's King of the road, and wants to try and "run" ya.  A good lesson
>in humility, and an appreciation for what's really fast out on the road.
> (Not much more fun than finding a guy in a new  '89 Corvette and showing him
>what acceleration mean by starting at 45 mhp down the road and dropping into
>first gear (my bike did 55 mph at redline in first, when you were shifting),
>a lesson I'll bet he didn't forget too fast...).

Yeah, they're impressive, I'll openly give them that, but I just personally
don't trust them that highly (Old times, I know, but...) and I'd still
prefer my comforts, etc.  That, and I ~know~ if I ever actually drove one,
I'd be hooked on the extreme acceleration, and start ~another~ costly hobby,
and end up killing myself trying to hit 225 mph on first street...  This I
already know! :)  Soooooo, I just don't give myself the chance to start into
it.

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:18:18 -0300
Subject: New addition:  ~Rockit 6!~

     Well, I found the new engine for the Rockit today.  Another 425.  Early
next week I'll be picking up my "new" (yeah!) '67 Toro :)  Man those things
were cool!  This one hasn't moved in many years, tho, and has some pretty
severe front end damage.  It's gonna be hard for me to take the engine out
without being able to drive it first!  It's gonna be even harder to take it
out if I ~do~ get to drive it first!  Damn!  Loaded critter tho.  Original
engine, but supposedly ~very~ meticulously maintained.  I'll be the second
owner.  I'll post pic's (on my web page, not the list! :) when I get them
developed, because the front end damage is just unbelievable for the
strength of that car!  How similar (bodywise) are the '66 and '67s?  I have
access to a '66 parts car, and the temptation is there to do something about
that!  (Although I'd need a new hood)  Da**it! there I go again.  It's gonna
be tough stripping it out:(  Anyone have any preliminary parts requests?
Transaxle's supposed to be perfect.  I ~never~ knew Olds put a switch pitch
torque convertor in these things!  It's pretty interesting.  About that
Toro-virus innoculation:  Anyone have info about potential cures?  I'm
starting to show early warning signs...  Oh well, I guess.


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: ea154@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh J. Haviland)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:53:17 -0300
Subject: some 455 questions

  Hi, all. I am in the process of rebuilding a 68 455, possibly for racing
altho it may only see the track 10 times a year, I still want to build it
strong, and I have 2 questions.
1. is there any way to machine the main's to a 4 bolt setup? I have heard
it is possible, just curious as to how hars it is to do it, since I have
access to the equiptment i might need to do this and I would like to beef
up the bottom end of this engine.

2. to anyone who might have experimented, what would the maximum safe limit
for an overbore? I have heard it is possible to take it out .125 without
sonic checking, and if it is possible to go further can the right stroke be
obtained?
thanks for listening

'70 delta 88
'79 cutlass


- --
__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
=================================================================

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:56:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Clock...

Kabootski@aol.com wrote:
>
> Mike;
>
> Good old JC Whitney, home of bad chrome and other tasteless, cheesy car
> parts, doesn't offer that part anymore.  I even stopped in the store on
> Cermak (Daley kicked 'em out of the State Street store to make room for more
> condos) and they said they didn't have it.
>
> I've been trying to talk a friend of mine who came to Chicago from Wyoming
to > browse a JC Whitney catalog and go crazy with customizing stuff for her >
truck.  She didn't get the joke 'till I went down Ogden with her and showed >
her some of the lovely vehicles on the West side.  Now she gets the joke. > >
JC Whitney might be good for a few things, but you should hear how us >
Chicagoans rip them a new... hole in the top for some of the things they >
sell. > > Duane

Duane,
I never commended JC and the boys.....I just said that's where I got
THAT part, (and I'll buy any weatherstrip on sale, since they sell
soffseal).  At the time, they were the only ones that had that
particular item, and since it was cheap.......I couldn't lose....much.

Mike

------------------------------

From: "John M. Barnes" <CHMPFISH@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:09:50 -0300
Subject: Re: some 455 questions

Josh J. Haviland wrote:
>
>   Hi, all. I am in the process of rebuilding a 68 455, possibly for racing
> altho it may only see the track 10 times a year, I still want to build it
> strong, and I have 2 questions.
> 1. is there any way to machine the main's to a 4 bolt setup? I have heard
> it is possible, just curious as to how hars it is to do it, since I have
> access to the equiptment i might need to do this and I would like to beef
> up the bottom end of this engine.

Mondello offers a four bolt set up. If you are running a carburated engine,
don't bother. In my opinion it's not worth the extra money.


>
> 2. to anyone who might have experimented, what would the maximum safe limit
> for an overbore? I have heard it is possible to take it out .125 without
> sonic checking, and if it is possible to go further can the right stroke be
> obtained?

I do beleive sonic testing is necessary for .125 over bore. That's a 482 with
stock stroke! I beleive you can go as big as 510 though.

John

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:22:56 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

OL>Well, the "J" heads and the "C" heads (as well as the A,B,E,G and H heads)
OL>had the exact same compression, since they shared the standard 80cc
OL>combustion chambers.

My '94 Mondello catalog says:   casting                cc
                                                             c
          80
                                                             e
          77
                                                              j
            82

These are the only b.b. heads listed in the catalog. It also says that
milling .006 is equivelant to 1 cc on the calculated average.

Daren

O.C.A. 23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:30:02 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

OL>My '94 Mondello catalog says:   casting                cc
OL>                                                             c
OL>          80
OL>                                                             e
OL>          77
OL>                                                              j
OL>            82

That didn't come out right .   c - 80cc   e - 77cc   j - 82cc

Daren

O.C.A. 23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:49:27 -0300
Subject: Re: attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> Question: Have any of you got replacement upper door panels from a
> dealership recently? A 1987 442 is only 10 years old so I have to think that
> there are some door panels left in the old GM parts bin. I need camel tan
> upper door panels for my 80 442, but any year up to 1987 should work. Also,
> has any 442 owners been able to order the inner door panel "442" emblems?
> Curious. Thanks.....
> - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason,
   the 442 emblems are long since gone...I did get a pair from a guy in
NJ a few months ago.  They were in OK shape, they were either factory
rejects or bounced around in a box alot as the black edging around the
nu,bers was all chipped up.  I haven't attempted to touch them up yet to
see if I can make them look good.  E-mail me privately and I will try to
dig up his address...

- ---Matt
'86 442
mailto:mmayer@interaccess.com

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:06:19 -0300
Subject: Re: "She Wore a Raspberry Buret" (WAS head games)

.   Do you
> >think that they can really get the head perfectly level to work on?  On
a
> >combustion chamber that large, how do you develope and gauge the
meniscus?
>
> I did wonder (and still do) where all the air in the chamber is supposed
to
> escape to, when the water is measured in. Should there be a vent hole
> drilled in the plexiglass?
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

The process to CC a chamber goes like this. You put the head on something
that is so you can move it, V- type stands work well. Put some grease on
the valves and drop them in. Install a spark plug and tilt head so you have
a high side. The plexeglass has a countersunk hole.
Grease the area around the chamber and place the hole at the high edge of
the chamber. I just use water with some dish soap ( helps to break the
surface tenson of the water) the air will self purge as you fill the
chamber. Sometimes you have to tap the head a little to get the bubbles
out.
Walter

------------------------------

From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:36:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Non-Olds: Scary Sight (long)

Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:

. . . As I rounded a curve I saw a disturbing sight.

One of those mid to late 80s Chrysler LeBaron convertibles was parked by
the curb on the other side of the boulevard. The drivers window was down
about halfway (the top was up) and thick, brownish gray smoke was
absolutely pouring out of it. . .

. . . By the time I got turned around the fire had consumed all of the
convertible top - just black shards of fabric hanging from the frame -
and all of the dash and interior. . . .I gotta pick up an extinguisher
real soon to keep in the car.

******************************
A fire extinguisher is certainly a good thing to carry in your car but
as this fire demonstrated, a vehicle fire can spread very rapidly due to
all the highly combustible materials.  Unless you can get to the source
of the fire with your extinguisher within a minute or two of the start,
a hand carried device probably isn't going to stop the fire.

I once stopped at a car which had just pulled over with a carb fire and
because it was a Cadillac and the grill latch was about five feet from
the location of the fire, the driver was able to get the hood open.  I
first confirmed that he really wanted the fire put out (you never know)
and then shot the top of the engine as best as could be done with my
little dry chemical extinguisher.  Even though the fire had really only
started, I didn't have enough capacity to put it out before the
extinguisher ran dry.  A much larger carbon dioxide extinguisher from
the pizzeria we were in front of didn't completely put the fire out
either.  Between the two however, it did slow the fire down enough so
that damage was relatively minor yet when the fire department arrived
from their station about a mile away. (The pizzeria employees had
called, at about the time I was stopping.)

On another occasion about three years ago I pulled into the parking lot
of a local corner grocery store and as I started to get out of the
truck, noticed a Corvair parked by the street with "For Sale" signs on
it.  The car's horn was blowing weakly, and I could see that the
taillights were also on dimly.  A second look confirmed that the
interior was starting to fill with smoke; another indication of an
electrical fire which had started under the dash.  Using my cellular
phone I called the fire department, which was again about a mile away,
and sat back to watch the show.  There still were no visible flames when
the fire engine arrived, and they got in position with an inch and a
half hose before opening the car up.  When they did open the driver's
door of the car the dash burst into flame, but just as quickly it was
out as they drenched the whole interior with water.  A couple of minutes
worth of spray for good measure, and the show was over.  The lesson here
is if you have an interior fire, try to close the windows before you
bail out.  It might slow the fire down enough that there will be
something left by the time the fire department gets there.

Finally, for two of the years that I worked at Hydramatic's Ypsilanti
Michigan plant, I was on the company fire brigade.  I guess that ever
since 1953 when their one year old transmission plant burned to the
ground in Livonia Michigan, they've been quite sensitive about fires.
The company fire brigade are production workers who are trained to
assist the company fire department with fires which might occur in their
work areas.  In a plant of that size, there are fires daily, so being on
the fire brigade isn't just a monthly training session which you never
get to use.

During one of those training sessions, we went out to a corner of the
parking lot and intentionally set fire to a two year old or so Citation
(they were good for something!) which had spent its short life as a much
abused engineering test vehicle.  The drive train and fuel system had
been removed, but it was otherwise a complete car.  The fire department
trainers poured some light oils around the interior, struck a match and
let 'er rip.  After the fire has gotten a couple of minutes to settle
in, each of us trainees had the opportunity to shoot a water mist
through an open door or the melting windshield from an inch and a half
hose, assisted by a real fire fighter.  They would stop us after a few
seconds, so the fire could get reestablished.  It didn't take too long
for all that plastic to start spreading the flames once again, even
after having been hit with several gallons of water.  Even when they
wanted to end the training and completely put the fire out, it took a
couple of trys because the fire would hide under the seats or dash and
start spreading again once the cooling from the water stopped.  Even
with the "big tool" of a tanker fire engine, repeated "hits" were
necessary to get the job done.

The bottom line to all of this is that vehicle fires can start for a
wide variety of reasons, will probably spread quickly, and once they've
gotten a start are pretty hard to put out.  Again an extinguisher is
definately a good idea for your car but if the situation ever happens to
you, remember that heroics may well not make much difference in the
final result so don't commit yourself to any really big risks.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: Yannick Simard <Yannick.Simard@enter-net.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:19:13 -0300
Subject: Olds 78 tape

Hi, my name is Yannick Simard,i'm working in GM
dealer          as a mechanic,i'm a canadian french from Quebec so
excuse my english. In 78', my father buy a brand new olds 88, and
he receive a tape with the car "olds 78". The tape was a eight track
and after fiew year, we lost the tape. Me and my sister, try to find
all songs was on the tape, because is all beautifull songs, if you
know the tittle of songs, please send me the list.

                                    Thank you. Yannick

------------------------------

From: "Steve Bento" <steveb@thecia.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:44:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 72 Cutlass For Sale

- ----------
> We have a beautiful 72 Cutlass Supreme 2dr for sale. 350 4bbl, Auto, A/C,
> SSII's, Disc Brakes, Dual Exhaust, NOS Grilles, NOS Rear Bumper, Recent
> Eagle ST tires, shocks, brakes, front end, exhaust. 350 has mild cam and 3
> angle valve job with new carb, TH350 rebuilt with shift kit, electronic
> distibutor conversion. Car is green with white PAINTED roof (documented).
> All paperwork from day one. Asking $6500.00 obo.
>
> Jim Chermack
> (757) 474-0869
>
>
>

Interesting, my car also came from the factory with the white painted roof,
was this rare???????

Thanks

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
e-mail: steveb@thecia.net
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:13:29 -0300
Subject: 455 installed -- not runing yet though

       Howdee  Folks,
                               Well.... i got my 455 installed in my 67 F85
and i discovered a few things along the way that might be of interest to a
few of you out there.  If there is something that is peculiar to my car it
would be interesting to know.
  First of all i learned that late model engine mounts look like they will
fit -- it appears that they are off in every dimension by about 1/8" -- so
after about a half an hour messing with those i ended up putting the early
mounts on the engine -- im waiting for some solid units in the mail.
  Second, for some reason the the transmission crossmember bolt holes in the
frame just barely don't line up with the TH400 tranny mount ; they cause the
tranny mount to bump againt the crossmember which prevents you/me from
threading the tranny mount bolts.
   Third, because the crossmember is now located about 6" farther back the
emergency brake system doesn't have enough adjustment in it to take up the
slack
so now i need to buy a Ebrake kit and install a shorter cable.
    Fourth, Edlebrock Performer intake manifold -- no matter what you do --
if you want to run an air cleaner -- it will not fit under the hood of a 67
Olds F85 unless you want to put a hood scoop on the car --  If some one knows
of an air cleaner that will fit let me know -- i hate the feeling that i
wasted about $200 on a manifold that will not fit my application.
     Fifth,  at this moment i am in the process of installing the Heddman
headders that i bought for the car --- the passenger side headder fit without
a problem -- i will need to file the rear part of the passenger side upper
control arm about 1/8" to account for any bushing flex so as not to put a
hole in the ª 6 primary tube, i did have to remove the oil filter adapter to
install the headder --  i haven't gotten the drivers side headder installed
yet but it looks like i wil have to pull the starter motor and install the
headder first just loosly and then put the starter motor in -- i might also
have to relocate my braking system junction box.
      Sixth, the driveshaft from the Delta Royale is the same length as the
driveshaft that was installed in the F85 with the TH350 transmission, anyway
from the looks of it i will need to have that shortened about 3 1/2".
      I think that's about it for now.

                                                  J2RKT@aol.com


------------------------------

From: shoover <shoover@flash.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:42:04 -0300
Subject: Windowfelt

Hey everyone, I have changed my email and I expect it to chang again
soon, but for now I am shoover@flash.net


I just received my windowfelt kit from Tamraz. I have the ones with the
side moldings. I cannot figure out how to install them. The original
windowfelt had a piece of rubber at the top that went up at an angle and
contacted the glass. These seem to have the same piece going down.
Should install them pointing down or flip them over and install them
with rubber going up? If I flip them over, then the rubber piece will be
at the bottom, instead of the top like the original. Have I confused you
yet?

Also my original has metal clips that fit into the molding anf bent
over. These only have holes, how should I attach them?

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:08:29 -0300
Subject: Anyone Going to Vallejo?

I think I may go up to Vallejo to the swap meet tomorrow. Anyone
else going? I don't usually go to these things, but thought it would
be fun to go. I'll get my mail tonight so I look forward to your private
replies  to  cfair@fairisaac.com. Hope to see some of you all there.

cf

------------------------------

From: hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:18:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Anyone Going to Vallejo?

Christian Fair wrote:
>
> I think I may go up to Vallejo to the swap meet tomorrow. Anyone
> else going? I don't usually go to these things, but thought it would
> be fun to go. I'll get my mail tonight so I look forward to your private
> replies  to  cfair@fairisaac.com. Hope to see some of you all there.
>
> cf
What city and state is this swap meet in????????????????????

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:22:12 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro VIN

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, James Thingwold wrote:

> Since this was read to me over the phone - its entirely possible!  I'll see
> tomorrow and post the cowl tag also.
>
> Did they make 30,000 something Deluxe's in '66?  Trying to remember what I
> read in Setting the Pace.

34,640

Paul Hartlieb
plh@leba.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:43:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers For The 425?: OOPS !

>  Sorry about that folks -- i didn't think about the steering box location --
>i should have known better especially since i just pulled a 455 and TH400
>from a 70 Delta Royale.
>
>       Just out of curiosity -- are Delta Royales very collectable ???

Not if the engine and transmission are missing. :)  Seriously, two doors are
collectable and somewhat desireable but 4-doors generally are not allthough
some people like them for towing the boat or the camper.(or car trailer for
that matter)  Especially since they can fit six adults and still have tons
of room for a coleman ice-chest in the trunk.   And there are probably a few
people around who have them just to cruise in.  So really, they're all
collectible, there are just some cars that are harder to sell than others.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:39:38 -0300
Subject: Re: 72 Cutlass For Sale

At 05:44 PM 4/19/97 -0300, you wrote:

>Interesting, my car also came from the factory with the white painted roof,
>was this rare???????
>
>Thanks
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve
>71 Cutlass S 455
>93 Mustang LX 5.0
>e-mail: steveb@thecia.net
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Steve

        The one we are selling was painted at the dealership because the
lady who bought it thought it was just a little too green. It's documented
on the purchase order from the dealer. I know that over the years that Olds
did offer tu-tone paint. It was applied like it was a vinyl top.

Jim

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª621
********************************
