To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #681


oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 19 May 1997        Volume 01 : Number 681

Re: Wheel Hop
Re: Overheating
new papa-again!!
Re: '67 442 ?'s
Re: One for the Cutlass folks
Re: '67 442 ?'s
Re[2]: '67 front glass needed
Re: Overheating
Re: Just what is the difference
Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.
unscribe oldsmobile
Thermostat 2 cents
Re: Oil discrepancies....
Overheating
Wiz?
subscribe oldsmobile
Re: '67 442 ?'s
Re: Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.
4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters
Re: '67 442 ?'s
Re: Overheating
Re: Oil discrepancies....
Re: Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.
Re: '67 442 ?'s
Re: Web Page Update - OCA
Re: Overheating
Re: Overheating
Re: '67 442 ?'s
'69 Cutlass 4bbl Red Air cleaner paint
Re[2]: Oil discrepancies....
installing 455
Re: One for the Cutlass folks
My '70 Olds Cutlass 4-Door
RE: 4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters
Olds "Dust-off" (5/17), and List Members Meeting
Re: Overheating
Re: 4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:38:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Hop

At 06:53 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey Doc,
>
>> Actually, doesn't the revised rear-end geometry of the aftermarket
>> control-arm relocation kits cause the rear to _raise_, rather than lower,
on [snip] >Well you brought something to my mind.  When I first got my 68 442,
when >I punched >it from a dead stop I got the feeling that the rear of the
car was >lifting itself [snip] >The car has now since stopped that and I don't
know why.  Is this good? >bad? whatever?

Is this something that changed after the accident, or before?

The rear of the car lifting on launch is (generally) a good thing. It is due
to the supsension geometry. A change in that characteristic would be due to
a change in the suspension geometry and reaction, either through a lower or
higher rear ride height (did you finally empty out your trunk?;), a change
in the characteristics of the tires, shocks, bushings (due to replacement or
wear), or a change in the suspension mounting points (perhaps the accident
tweaked your frame?), or a change in the car's weight distribution (been
snacking on cheese-fries lately? ;).

Or perhaps it's still doing it, but you've just become so used to it.

As for why it's good for the rear to lift on launch, think of it in terms of
the car's chassis as a frame of reference, and consider the chassis an
immoveable object. The axle and tires can move in relation to the body, and
you want to increase the pressure on the tires to increase traction.

Now, which way would you imagine you would want the suspension's reaction to
torque to move the tires, towards or away from the body? Away, of course,
which would increase pressure; if the suspension's reaction to the torque
was to pull the tires up toward the body, then you're waiting for gravity to
kick in and lower the body of the car onto the tires.

Then again, the rear of a car may "squat" upon acceleration, even _if_ the
suspension geometry is pushing the rear of the car up. Here's why:

We discussed weight transfer here on the list (imagine the t-stat/no t-stat
discussion, just longer) about a year or so ago, and someone claimed that
weight doesn't really transfer (mass doesn't move around in the car). Well,
as we all learned back in high-school physics, weight and mass aren't the
same thing; the distribution of the mass of a car remains constant, but if
you could put a scale under the wheels of a 4000lb car when it is doing a
wheelstand, the front end would weigh 0lbs and the rear would weigh 4000lbs,
regardless of how the mass is distributed.

This weight transfer increases the effective weight of the car on the rear
suspension, so that the springs which might normally bear 1500lbs of the car
are now called upon to bear the full 4000lbs. Now, if the car was just at
rest and you added 2500lbs to the suspension, it might drop by, say, four
inches, due to the extra weight. Now, the same car undergoing weight
transfer upon launch, with a suspension geometry that "lifted" the car,
might still drop when the rear sees 4000lbs, but perhaps only by two inches.
That would be because the force of the rear axle twisting away from the body
due to engine torque partially offsets the added force downward from the
weight-transfer.

So though the rear of a car that is properly set up for maximum traction
might "squat", you don't want to design the suspension to squat; if you did,
the suspension that normally drops four inches under a 4000lb load would
drop by, say, _six_ inches, and you'd be quickly running out of suspension
travel (real bad thing, especially if you hit a bump).

So, improve weight transfer (actually, you want to keep around 5-10% of the
weight on the front tires; helps with steering and things like that...),
design in rear-end lift, and make sure all components are up to spec. What
exactly it takes to achieve all these goals, however, requires some
experimentation and experience, though the suggestions people have given
here make for a good baseline.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:40:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

C.R.F. wrote,

>Without getting overheated, I've decided that there are some positive
>aspects to having a thermostat to restrict, somewhat, the water flow;
>therein keeping the water in the radiator longer.  (I understand that the
>t'stat temperature is set to bring the engine to a certain operating point.
>Say 195=BA F, and keep it there.  It has applications, at this temperature,
>for both satisfactory engine operation, and emission control).  (This
>discussion is dealing with conditions where the t'stat is absent or
>inoperative, and not intended to perform for proper engine operation).
>
>I totally agree with the wetter water aspects.  I personally use a cap (of
>the bottle) full of Kodak Photo-Flo for that, and it works very well, at=
 low
>cost.
>
>I do not totally agree that the radiators' tubes are not 'somewhat
>constrictive' and would cause the flow to be disrupted in some manner or=
 other.
>
If you provide a sufficient amount of tubes in the radiator to maintain a
large free flow cross sectional area, you will minimize the pressure drop
across the radiator.  However, the tubes are of a small(relative to the
hoses) hydraulic diameter and the aspect ratio of tube length to diameter is
large enough on most to have a fully developed turbulent flow.  This results
in two boundary layers.  One thermal, the other velocity.  Both reduce the
effective heat transfer from the tubes to the fins.  If you want exact
numbers, use an undergraduate Intro to Fluid Mechanics book like Fox and
McDonald.  It explains how to calculate pressure drops, roughness factors,
use of the Modified Bernoulli Equation to calculate flow around bends and
restrictions(like the orifice plate used by racers).

>Here is where the my bottom line on this is:  if you constrict the flow,=
 you
>cause the fluid to 'speed up' past the constriction,that is it will
>increase speed and go thru the radiator even faster after passing the
>partially open t'stat (the constriction)!  WOULD NOT THIS BE DETREMENTAL TO
>GOOD COOLING?
>
You're talking about the face velocity of the fluid, not the volumetric flow
rate which would be reduced by an increase in in-line pressure.  Also, if
you want to know the how's and why's of heat exchanger cooling( the
engine-coolant relationship is one HX and the coolant-radiator-air is
another) check out Intro to Heat Transfer by Incropera and De Witt.  For a
more advanced look at radiators, batch heat exchange, heat generation
sources, ect.. look at Compact Heat Exchangers by Kays and London.  All
these books ae easy to understand, require a minimal amount of Math,(some
Calc.) and will cut through all the circular arguements. =20

Suffice it to say that increasing flow rate is good for heat transfer from
the engine to the coolant if the coolant inlet temperature is the same for
all flowrates.  IT IS NOT.  This is due to the coolant-radiator-air exchange
which falls off beyond a flowrate which is dictated by the inlet coolant
temp, the incoming air temp(sometimes humidity in really humid regions), the
air flow rate, the number of tubes and the fin pitch (number of fins per
inch), the thermal conductivity of the material the radiator is constructed
of and jprobably one or two things I forgot to mention. Contact resistance
etc... being gnored.  THE POINT is that increasing flow does not cause the
engine to run hotter becasue the engine-coolant are not in contact for a
long enough period of time as someone said.  That is plain bulls**%^&^%&t!!
Increasing the coolant flow rate of ANY heat exchanger, as long as that flow
is at the same inlet condion, will ALWAYS enhance cooling.  If anyone really
wants to know how and why, contact me directly.  I don't have time right
now, but I'll respond ASAP.

Also, someone suggested that the heat being removed from the engine was
latent heat.  This is incorrect, Latent heat is due to phase change.  Like
when moisture condenses, it gives off heat.  (Ref. Mollier diagram, any
thermodynamics book)  The heat involed hear is called Sensible heat.   Just
terminology.

To C.R.F., the last time I mentioned that stainless steel valves had a lower
conductivity than plain carbon steel and thus conducted less heat to the
valve seat, you had me miss-quoted as saying that stainless steel valves
caused the engine to run cooler.  Please don't do that again and please look
at a few references before confusing the subject further.


  Paul Brillhart
  Visiting Research Engineer
  Department of Mechanical Engineering
  University of Illinois at Chicago

  '67 442
  '65 442

BTW:  I read the Smokey Unich used to "pin" his main bearing caps before 4
bolt mains were readily available.  He used a 1/4 in.  steel pin between the
block and both sides of the main bearings.  He says that it helped to
prevent the bearing from "pinching"  during detonation and grabbing onto the
crank.  Anyone ever try pinning?

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:46:54 -0300
Subject: new papa-again!!

OL>Just sent my plea for re-s*bsription in. We brought home a new baby girl
OL>yesterday and She is prettier than a 66 W-30!! She weighed in @ 8lb 11oz.
OL>This is our third/last. I must inspire one of them to become a motor-head.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Why not all three motor-heads?

OL>        2. Also read alot about Quadrajet numbers. I have 2 Q-jets. I would
OL>like to know the correct applications for them. Numbers are: 7040202 and
7043252

7040202  '70 350(exc. hi-perf.)  396,400,454 chevy
7043252  '73 455 Olds
This info is from Hygrade carb. rebuild kit catalog I have.

OL>Thanks in advance for the help!

OL>Jim Smith

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:50:06 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

At 09:57 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I went to look at a '67 442 conv. last Friday.  It had a D casting
>425 in it.  As I was calling the man's bluff; he told me that a very small
>number of late '67s had 425s as there were no more E casting 400s.
>
>This car had a 07C build and a VIN ª above 400,000.  I think he was
>pulling my leg, what do you all think??

I think that unless he has some actual documentation about this being the
case, assume that you'd be buying a 442 with a non-original motor.

What did he claim as his source for this information? Factory documentation?
An article in a trade or popular magazine? Discussions with factory
engineers? Confirmation from his friend, who is a devoted oldsmobile nut?
Unsubstantiated rumor? Wishful thinking? Outright deception? If he claims
this as a fact, he ought to be able to provide you with his source for such
knowledge.

Doesn't the OCA have an expert on this year car, who should be able to
provide the authoritative information on it?

What's he asking for the car, anyway?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:53:36 -0300
Subject: Re: One for the Cutlass folks

>Mike was There For All of Us When He Said:
>

He wasn't there for me........Ignorance is bliss and I for one am not!

I really get a kick out of people wh complement my Jetstar 88 by saying
"Nice Impala"  Then I kindly tell them what the car is.  I don't get
uptight about it.

Tony

70 442 W-30  (Nice Chevelle)
70 Toro GT W-34 (Nice Riviera)
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed (Nice Impala)
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer (Nice Monte Carlo)
92 Seville STS (Nice Caddy!!!)

 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/+++\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_


                                        Tony Waldner
tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us                   Northeast Metro 916
                                         3300 Century Ave. N.
                                         White Bear Lake, MN
                                                       55110

 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_+++_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:44:38 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

At 10:57 AM 5/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Folks,
>
>I went to look at a '67 442 conv. last Friday.  It had a D casting
>425 in it.  As I was calling the man's bluff; he told me that a very small
>number of late '67s had 425s as there were no more E casting 400s.
>
>This car had a 07C build and a VIN ª above 400,000.  I think he was
>pulling my leg, what do you all think??
>
>Car was black, black, black and _very_ nice.
>
>It had Y-2 paint code and 988-B trim code, aren't these the codes for
>yellow ext., yellow int., and a black top??
>
>Thanks,
>Mike Turley      '66 442
>turley@symplex.com
>
>

  Mike,


  My '67 also came with a 425, I didn't notice until later, but I only paid
$300 for the car so it didn't matter.  I always wondered if it was due to
the first owner blowing the 400 or the factory running shy(or the dealer
pulling a fast one) and putting in whatever was handy.  I'll check my VIN
and codes.

  Later

  Paul

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:49:12 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: '67 front glass needed

At 10:57 PM 5/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>To any of you Olds guys up here in Washington/Oregon/Idaho area I need a
>good front windshield for my '67 442 after a VERY BAD day....

      Sorry to hear that.  I recently purchased a brand new windshield from
     my local auto glass dealer for my 70 W-30 for something like $175.
     This was for the glass only, as I installed it myself (cost about
     another $20 for the installation kit - black adhesive putty tape).  I
     also checked about a windshield for my 66 442 (same as your 67).  It
     was still available and listed at $135.  Make sure that the glass
     company knows that you are paying for the windshield, as opposed to
     your insurance company.  Rates to insurance companies are 50%-100%
     higher, which you get to pay for in higher insurance rates.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com  (note new email address)

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:06:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

At 01:09 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Without getting overheated, I've decided that there are some positive
>aspects to having a thermostat to restrict, somewhat, the water flow;
>therein keeping the water in the radiator longer.

You want the water coming back into the engine as cool as possible; not only
does the amount of heat transfer in the radiator depend upon its size, the
heat-transfer properties of the coolant and the radiator tubes, and the
temperature differential between the two, it also depends upon the amount of
time the hot coolant is in contact with the cool tubes. Think of it this
way; it takes a few minutes to boil an egg, and the longer it sits in the
hot water, the hotter it gets (ok, heat transfer in reverse, but the
principle is the same).

OTOH, you *don't* want the coolant to move too slowly through the engine
block due to restrictions. If an engine can heat 2 gallons of water by 100
degrees on a pass through the coolant passages, then you're not increasing
the efficiency of heat-transfer by slowing the coolant so that the engine
would be heating 1 gallon by 200 degrees! In fact, efficiency would be
increased by having it heat 4 gallons by 50 degrees.

Of course, since the goal is to move the water through the radiator slower,
and through the engine block quicker, you have to come to some kind of
compromise.

>Here is where the my bottom line on this is:  if you constrict the flow, you
>cause the fluid to 'speed up' past the constriction, that is it will
>increase speed and go thru the radiator even faster after passing the
>partially open t'stat (the constriction)!  WOULD NOT THIS BE DETREMENTAL TO
>GOOD COOLING?

Right, but *after* the constriction, the cross section of the hoses and
tubes is the same, but the volume flowing past it would be less (less water
is getting past the restriction), so the pressure would be less and the
speed would be slower (I prove this every time I get a kink in my garden
hose while watering the lawn; pressure builds up in the hose, but very
little is coming out the nozzle at very low pressure, which is where the
radiator would be in this analogy).

> I think that for racing
>lower operational temperatures would be the main, as it allows more fuel
>(cooler fuel is denser, hence greater b.t.u./gallon{or is it there's no fuel
>like and old fuel}). [With the U.S. gallon anyway].  The higher temperatures
>in everyday cars is emissions driven.

Actually, though you want the fuel to be cool, you do want the cylinder to
be hot. Race engines control this by insulating the fuel system and intake
stream as much as possible from the rest of the engine. This is tough to do
economically in a street engine, where packaging considerations prevent this.

>And the person that pointed out that the older cars were always having their
>radiators topped off is entirely correct.  But then they were open to the
>atmosphere, and any overflow left the car, and did not go into an overflow
>bottle, where it could be returned to the cooling system.

An overflow tank was a great advance in cooling systems. Previously, the
radiator had to be designed with a bit of "air-space", as my '69 Toro has
(fill line on the radiator is a few inches from the top). With an overflow
tank, however, the unused portion of the radiator can be filled with extra
coolant, and when it boils over after shutting it off (as it always does
when the coolant stops circulating), the fluid is retained until the system
has cooled and is ready to suck it back in.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:14:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Just what is the difference

On Mon, 19 May 1997, Robert J. Barry wrote:

> No, it's completely different. The 403 from the T/A is the same as an Olds
> because, well, it is an Olds motor, used from '77-'79. And you can bolt in

Yes, the 403 I know, but thanx...

> an Olds 455 using the 403 mounts. But all factory T/A 455's were purely
> Pontiac motors.
> Only Buick's 455 had the front-mounted distributor.

Ooops, typed before I thought (I do that lots)

> Well, the bore and stroke are different, as are the castings, the bore
> centers, the bearing sizes, the rod length, the valvetrain, intake and
> exhaust manifolds, everything (ok, distributor caps interchange, but that
> and the carb are *it*).
Well, that about clinches it, then!
>
> Who has always been telling you these shameful lies? ;)

Dear old Dad, but I think it's more of don't know thing than a vicous
lie.  (Of course either is a detriment to my olds, who does NOT like any
trendy sportscar, just out of principle, even though they can be nice cars).

Thanx for the clarification (Oh, and if you could send me privately the
bore and stroke of each for reference, I would be GREATRLY appreciative!)

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.1.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: Michael Ciraolo <mike@trendstat.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:10:54 -0300
Subject: Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.

Hi,

I have recently purchased a Kona Jet boat with an Olds 455.  I am =
concerned about the stability of this engine.  A lot of people warn me =
about the Low End of the engine.  On top of that I have this story to =
tell.

The engine was recently rebuilt from the ground up (by the previous =
owner).  I was cruisen the lake at a mere 3,000 rpm and slowed down to =
2,000 rpm, when the engine starting bogging down and making knocking =
noises and stalled.  In trying to start it I could hear that something =
was really clattering and shaking.  So I took it home and pulled the =
heads.  It turns out that some how an intake Valve Seat fell out and was =
chopped up then blew pieces back into the intake, in all 7 pistons were =
severely pitted from the metal fragments!  Is this common?  I never =
heard of such a thing.  Is an Olds engine weak.  Should I use it for an =
anchor instead of a power train?

I will tell you this, the engine really ran incredibly before this =
happened.  I am still in shock from it all.  I need to replace the =
pistons and possibly the head(s)?

Any comments would be appreciated.  And if anyone knows were I can =
(afford) to purchase pistons (marine?), and heads?

Also info about what numbers on the block, crank, heads could tell me =
about my engine.  Should I throw a used 350 into it?  Or is the 455 =
worth redoing again?

Thanks any help would be cherished.

Mike@trendstat.com

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:18:13 -0300
Subject: unscribe oldsmobile



------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:22:46 -0300
Subject: Thermostat 2 cents

OK, to shamelessly beat a dead horse:

1) When you consider that a cooling system is pump driven, it must
therefore have pressure and vacuum points to some extent, and therefore
it must (ok, could) follow:
With a thermostat, the entire engine block would be under more pressure
than the radiator, thus making it heavier, and able to pick up heat
easier from the motor.  The radiator, then would be under vacuum somewhat
(OK, less pressure, not vacuum), but it is clearly designed to easily
disciptate heat.
Of course, with the thermostat removed, if the engine was designed to
have it, you could move the pressure and vacuum points to somewhere else
in the system and effectively reduce the effiency of the system.  Of
course, I've run my 75's without, and they don't seem to mind, but that's
never stopped me from a good argument!

.....Shameless but short self-promo sig file Version 2.1.....
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
.....End of self-promo                                  .....

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:07:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil discrepancies....

>You all know I have an '86
>442, 307-9, etc..(gold plated rocker cover gaskets too... :-)  )
>Changed the oil yesterday.  Got out a little over 4 quarts (filter
>included..) not too unusual given the way this things dribbles...but
>here's the weird part...I put four quarts back in and the dipstick reads
>FULL!  Take it out drive it a little, let it sit a little, stickl still
>reads FULL!

What's the listed capacity for your engine? Is it definitely 5 quarts?
The rod-knocker V6 engine for the Cutlass, for example, is only 4. Assuming
you have the right dipstick in there and the oil level isn't going _down_,
I wouldn't sweat it.

>Pressure guage shows about 45psi on start up, stays fairly
>high for a while and then after 15 min of driving or so, will drop to a
>nice 15 psi at idle.  Any ideas on what lurks in my engine now??

Oil?  :-)  Those pressures sound reasonable.

>Clogged passages??  I could see not getting all the oil out because of
>some trapped up top, but they didn't say anything when about it when
>they took the rocker covers off.  MAJOR sludge in the pan??  I don't
>think so as I have always been good about changing the oil every 3,000.
>Should I run some CD-2 through the system or would that be courting
>disaster??

Hate to sound dense, but I don't see a problem here, nor do I see any need
to put CD-2 or anything else in there. It sounds like you've been taking
proper care of it.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:55:44 -0300
Subject: Overheating

OK!  Time to get in on this.  I've read countless messages concerning
this overheating business, and everybody whipping out heat transfer
formulas, and trying to prove how smart they are, etc.  Without being
too general, and by all means, too specific, it comes down to this
functionality:

Keep air moving through the radiator as fast as possible,  make sure the
air goes through the rad and not around it, Have enough radiator surface
area as possible (staggered tubes, 4-core, etc.), keep the water
passages clean, the water pump in good condition, and use the correct
pressure rad cap.

Someone mentioned something about increasing flow rate will make a HX
work better.  This is true, which is mentioned in theory in his message.
But in real world, ever-changing driving conditions, a HX's actual heat
transfer (NOT transfer rate) is constantly changed by the Thot-Tcold
(delta T) conditions of the air and coolant.  The bottom line is this,
increased residence time in the radiator WILL help with getting the
coolant in the radiator cooler, but in turn, the residence time in the
block will help THAT coolant get hotter.  A goal here is to get the
radiator to take out at least as much heat as the engine is putting in,
and everything is fine...

So, to sum it up, use the largest surface-area radiator you can, keep it
clean inside and out, use a hi-flow thermostat, and a good rad cap, and
you should be on easy street.  If still overheating, you may want to
check for head gasket leaks......

My 2 cents,

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:05:56 -0300
Subject: Wiz?

Can you tell me more about this Photo-Flo in place of water wetter? Theory,
effectiveness, chemical components of each? No disbelief inteneded at all
just curious...
TIA
cf


>I totally agree with the wetter water aspects.  I personally use a cap (of
>the bottle) full of Kodak Photo-Flo for that, and it works very well, at low
>cost.

------------------------------

From: "C.K.G-B" <bluffin@netins.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:16:49 -0300
Subject: subscribe oldsmobile



------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:17:00 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

> What did he claim as his source for this information? Factory documentation?
> An article in a trade or popular magazine? Discussions with factory
> engineers? Confirmation from his friend, who is a devoted oldsmobile nut?
> Unsubstantiated rumor? Wishful thinking? Outright deception? If he claims
> this as a fact, he ought to be able to provide you with his source for such
> knowledge.

He claims contact with the Olds History Center about 3 years ago confirmed
425's in some '67 late models (about 90 units).

They are checking on this for me.

> What's he asking for the car, anyway?

12K, Auto. PS/PB A/C radio, power antenna.  SSI's. Very clean.


Mike Turley      '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:11:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.

At 04:10 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have recently purchased a Kona Jet boat with an Olds 455.  I am
concerned about the stability of this engine.  A lot of people warn me about
the Low End of the engine.  On top of that I have this story to tell.
>
>The engine was recently rebuilt from the ground up (by the previous
owner).  I was cruisen the lake at a mere 3,000 rpm and slowed down to 2,000
rpm, when the engine
[snip]
pulled the heads.  It turns out that some how an intake Valve Seat fell out
and was chopped up then blew pieces back into the intake, in all 7 pistons
were severely pitted from the metal fragments!  Is this common?  I never
heard of such a thing.  Is an Olds engine weak.  Should I use it for an
anchor instead of a power train?

Well, dropping a valve seat wouldn't be due to any inherent design problems
in the engine, but rather a failure on the part of the machinist installing
the valve seat. It could have happened in any motor. This has nothing to do
with the strength of the engine's bottom end (which is perfectly suitable
for high-performance boat use).

>Also info about what numbers on the block, crank, heads could tell me
about my engine.  Should I throw a used 350 into it?  Or is the 455 worth
redoing again?

Well, tell us the numbers and we'll tell you what your engine components are
like.

And of course the 455 is worth redoing again, if you were happy with its
performance before this failure. Just make sure that the machinist doing the
work knows what he is doing.

BTW, why was the seat for the intake valve replaced in the first place? I'd
suggest starting over with a new set of heads, preferrable some "C" heads
from a '67-'69 Olds big-block motor. Take a look at the Olds FAQ for more
information on the specifics of Oldsmobile Big-block heads.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Curt Salada <csalada@astea.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:42:49 -0300
Subject: 4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters

>From: Graham Cain <gcain@uvic.ca>
>Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:15:28 -0300
>Subject: Re: 68
>
>You must be right, I don't a own Supreme, but does the Cutlass 'S' have a
>different hood and tail lights depending on the engine, because I am pretty
>sure I have a 442 hood and tail lights and only a six cylinder. Any
>additional info you have on the 'S' with this configuration, as well as any
>other location where I can obtain other information on my car would greatly
>appreciated.
>
I once heard that the taillights on *most* 1970 4-4-2s were different
than those on the Cutlass models.  Each of the four Cutlass lenses
supposedly had a silver or white pinstripe around the edge of the red
part of the lens, and this stripe was not applied to the 4-4-2 lenses.
Can anyone corroborate this information?  I know that I pulled a set of
non-striped lenses off of a '70 4-4-2 that was on its way to the
junkyard several years ago.  I will check the garage -- if I still have
them I would be happy to sell them.  Anyway, were there any other
taillight oddities in the '64-'72 Cutlass / 4-4-2 lines?  From what
Graham is saying, sounds like there was something special about the '68
Cutlass S / 4-4-2 taillights...

One other bit of obscure 4-4-2iana:  I have noticed in several posts the
mention of a special charcoal canister for the '68-'69 OAI A-bodies.  I
had never heard of this before; I assume the forced-air hose got in the
way of the fuel evaporation canister.  Is that true?  If so, where did
it go, and did it change in appearance?

Curt Salada
1971 Cutlass for sale -- see it at
http://scils.rutgers.edu/~djcohen/curt/olds

>

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:47:12 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

On Mon, 19 May 1997, Mike Turley wrote:
>
> It had Y-2 paint code and 988-B trim code, aren't these the codes for
> yellow ext., yellow int., and a black top??

Y paint code = Saffron (yellow)
988 trim = yellow cloth and vinyl buckets (these must be *very* rare!)
2 = black top (I think, can't find this in my '67 chart but '69 had that
code)


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:41:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

C.R.F. wrote:
>
> Without getting overheated, I've decided that there are some positive
> aspects to having a thermostat to restrict, somewhat, the water flow;
>
> Here is where the my bottom line on this is:  if you constrict the flow, you
> cause the fluid to 'speed up' past the constriction, that is it will
> increase speed and go thru the radiator even faster after passing the
> partially open t'stat (the constriction)!  WOULD NOT THIS BE DETREMENTAL TO
> GOOD COOLING?
>

I agree that a thermostat is a "good thing" (when they work, arrrgh!).
Without a thermostat your engine could run too cold (oil too thick, or
bad gas mileage, or premature engine wear, etc) part of the time.  Not
to mention the constant heating and cooling of the engine as you speed
up and slow down can't be good for things like trying to keep that Al
intake manifold gasket sealed.

You're correct in that the fluid will speed up, but not past the
restriction, only during the restriction.  Once it's past the
restriction and back into a nice big area (like the upper radiator hose
or thermostat housing) it slows back down.

I really like the logic posted here yesterday (sorry, I didn't save it
so I can't credit the proper person) regarding open thermostats not
cooling.  If a stuck open thermostat would cause your engine _not_ to
cool because of too much coolant flow or whatever, then this scenario
would happen:  You start your engine, it reaches temp and the thermostat
goes wide open just like it's supposed to.  Now, if a wide open
thermostat would not allow the engine to cool because of "too much
flow", then the engine would just get hotter and hotter and eventually
self-destruct, the thermostat would never close again.

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

From: Daren@qconline.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:50:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil discrepancies....

OL>>Pressure guage shows about 45psi on start up, stays fairly
OL>>high for a while and then after 15 min of driving or so, will drop to a
OL>>nice 15 psi at idle.  Any ideas on what lurks in my engine now??

I had a 455 and with Pennzoil would have 40 psi after an oil change and
for the first 200-300 miles then would drop to 10-15psi. Not liking this
drop in oil pressure I switched to Castrol GTX. It would hold 40 psi for
2800-2900 miles then drop to 20-25 psi. Made for a good reminder to
change the oil. One possible reason for the pressure drop after the
engine warms up could be that the pressure relief spring is getting worn
out. I've had no experience with these springs wearing out so maybe
somebody else could shed some light on this being a possibility.

Daren

O.C.A. ª23571
daren@qconline.com

------------------------------

From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:53:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Can You tell me about my 74 Olds 455.

>Hi,
>
>        I have recently purchased a Kona Jet boat with an Olds 455.



  clattering and shaking.  So I took it home and pulled the heads.  It
turns out that some how an intake Valve Seat fell out and was chopped up
then blew pieces back into the intake, in all 7 pistons were severely
pitted from the metal fragments!  Is this common?  I never heard of such a
thing.  Is an Olds engine weak.  Should I use it for an anchor instead of a
power train?
>
>


Hey Mike!

Welcome to the world of Water Rockets!  That Kona hull is a fantastic ride.

I am VERY familiar with valve seats falling out.  Jet Boats run a strange
cooling system.  I think what happened was that you had a hot spot in your
head, and a rush of cool lake water caused such a change in temp that the
hot seat fell out of the cold head.  Invest in a thermostat kit for big
block Olds and Chevies that Rex Marine sells. This cured my problems.

When the previous owner rebuilt the motor,  did he install the all too
common "J" head?  These heads are notorious for dropping seats.  It
happened to me--twice!

You have a fantastic set up for the torque needed to turn your pump.  A 350
will be very disappointing.  Run oil restrictors, oil cooler, and chamfer
your crank for low end longevity.

I have a Sidewinder Jet Boat. I also have a Rayson Craft V-Drive with a 455
Olds.

The 455 in my jet boat has 5 HARD seasons on it with no problems.  It runs
5400 RPM at WOT with a Berkley jet and "A" impeller.

The engine has TRW "Power Forged" 10.5:1 CR pistons,  ARP rod bolts,
chamfered nodular crank, oil restrictors and a melling HV pump. The rear
main cap was ported for improved oil flow. The whole assembly is balanced.
I use 2.07 "E" heads on both of my boats.  I have 2.07 "G" heads on my drag
car. (These E and G heads seem to have the better seats. I have loosened
exhaust seats on K heads too.)  I run a Edelbrock Performer 455 intake and
a 750 Holly with Vac secondaries.

All work flawlessly!  I think if you swap for E or G heads it will
eliminate that seat problem that kills boating!  Spice up your oiling
system and you will have a dependable ride.

I hope this helps!  Feel free to E-mail me with any other questions on your
boat!  I am a "Aquaholic" for Olds powered boats!

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS

79 Sidewinder 455 Jet
70 Rayson Craft 455 V-Drive
86 Wellcraft Nova 454 Chev

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:53:15 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

At 01:17 PM 5/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>> What did he claim as his source for this information? Factory
documentation? >> An article in a trade or popular magazine? Discussions with
factory >> engineers? Confirmation from his friend, who is a devoted
oldsmobile nut? >> Unsubstantiated rumor? Wishful thinking? Outright
deception? If he claims >> this as a fact, he ought to be able to provide you
with his source for such >> knowledge. > >He claims contact with the Olds
History Center about 3 years ago confirmed >425's in some '67 late models
(about 90 units). > >They are checking on this for me. > I called them about
mine, the block and heads were out of a '66 88, while the exhausts and intake
were for a '67 442.  No way to confirm or deny who or when they were installed
according the Olds.  I didn't bother to run down the dealer.  If the car is
really nice or the price is high enough, it might be worth the effort.  Mine
was not.

  Paul

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:05:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Web Page Update - OCA

On Mon, 19 May 1997 brad.nicholson@ssa.gov wrote:
> Attention : Anyone w/ bookmarks or links to the OCA web page at my site,
> the address changed Sunday night.  The updated page is now:
> "http://www.erols.com/brad442/ocahome.html"

Good stuff! I'll have to go take a look. Hope the frames don't get in the
way. That's a personal bias, not to sound ungrateful or anything, I
just don't like the things usually... :)

> Also Steve DeNovi saw it for the first time about a week ago at Penny
> Casteele's place.  Basically it was the first internet experience for
> both him and his wife Sandi.  They were shown the current page and was
> quite impressed w/ Bryceman's page, especially the Oldsmobile owner's
> gallery of cars. Another tip of the hat to the innovator of
> Oldsmobile's presence on the web.

Absolutely! We seldom seem to give Bryce much credit these days and I hope
we're not taking him (and the page) for granted. I'm also glad that Steve
and Penny C. finally seem to be getting up to speed in this area. It
really is a great way for the OCA to further enhance the membership
experience. Now if they'd only take credit cards for OCA merchandise... :)

> Well, I'll see what I can add next weekend.  Baby's due tomorrow and
> the wife isn't showing any signs of moving things along, but DANG is
> she ready to get it overwith.  If it's a boy  - Elias Fredrick
> (spelling's wrong).  I didn't realize 'till after we made final our
> decision that Eli was Ransom Olds middle name, gosh how the
> subconcious works.

My buddy Brian and his wife Catherine recently went thru the same thing.
We all pretended to be disappointed when the baby turned out to be a boy
and they named him Jeffrey instead of Ransom... :)

> Girl's name, Emma Ruth.  Delta was eliminated loooooooong ago. "We're
> not naming our child after a dumb car!!" - Donna Nicholson, mother of
> child

How about "Aurora"?  ;-)

Seriously, good luck to Donna and yourself over the next little while.
>From what I hear, you better catch up on your sleep while you can...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:05:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

At 11:55 AM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>OK!  Time to get in on this.  I've read countless messages concerning
>this overheating business, and everybody whipping out heat transfer
>formulas, and trying to prove how smart they are, etc.  Without being
>too general, and by all means, too specific, it comes down to this
>functionality:
[snip of sensible explanation and advice]
>So, to sum it up, use the largest surface-area radiator you can, keep it
>clean inside and out, use a hi-flow thermostat, and a good rad cap, and
>you should be on easy street.  If still overheating, you may want to
>check for head gasket leaks......

Aw, c'mon Mike, here we are having a perfectly good pointless conversation,
and here you come in with some useable _answers_, of all things! NOW what
are we going to talk about???

Geez, I guess it will give me time to install that aftermarket defroster
grid on my rear window. Now, let me see, where did I put that soapy water...

;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:07:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

At 12:55 PM 5/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>OK!  Time to get in on this.  I've read countless messages concerning
>this overheating business, and everybody whipping out heat transfer
>formulas, and trying to prove how smart they are, etc.  Without being
>too general, and by all means, too specific, it comes down to this
>functionality:
>
>Keep air moving through the radiator as fast as possible,  make sure the
>air goes through the rad and not around it, Have enough radiator surface
>area as possible (staggered tubes, 4-core, etc.), keep the water
>passages clean, the water pump in good condition, and use the correct
>pressure rad cap.
>
>Someone mentioned something about increasing flow rate will make a HX
>work better.  This is true, which is mentioned in theory in his message.
>But in real world, ever-changing driving conditions, a HX's actual heat
>transfer (NOT transfer rate) is constantly changed by the Thot-Tcold
>(delta T) conditions of the air and coolant.  The bottom line is this,
>increased residence time in the radiator WILL help with getting the
>coolant in the radiator cooler, but in turn, the residence time in the
>block will help THAT coolant get hotter.

Sorry Mike, with the increased mass flow comes increased cooling capacity.
No theory involved, I've built and tested many HX's using temp differentials
all the way to 400F, the residence time theory in the block is a load of
c%^%&p in terms of cooling the block.  In the radiator, I agree completely,
but not the block.  You need time to cool the antifreeze in the radiator,
you don't need time to heat it up in the block, unless you want hot
antifreeze for whatever reason.   If you were heating a room with the
radiator, then yes, don't flow the antifreeze through the block so fast and
the room will get hotter(assuming you have enought air passing over the
radiator)...Back to the block... The faster coolant goes through, the cooler
the block will be.  This is assuming it is coming in at the same temp for
all flowrates, which(due to the radiator) it is not.  If you're running at
the same RPM, the engine is generating the same amount of heat.  If you can
crank more coolant at the same inlet temp through it, it'll run cooler.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying cooler is where you want to be for
optimal street performance.

  A goal here is to get the
>radiator to take out at least as much heat as the engine is putting in,
>and everything is fine...
>
>So, to sum it up, use the largest surface-area radiator you can, keep it
>clean inside and out, use a hi-flow thermostat, and a good rad cap, and
>you should be on easy street.  If still overheating, you may want to
>check for head gasket leaks......

  YES!!!!!!!!!

  It probably wouldn't hurt to insulate the exhausts either.  You'll only
gain performance.


>
>My 2 cents,
>
>Mike Rothe
>
>

  Later.

  Paul

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:19:16 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 442 ?'s

At 12:17 PM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>He claims contact with the Olds History Center about 3 years ago confirmed
>425's in some '67 late models (about 90 units).
>
>They are checking on this for me.

That's be the place to confirm it. Just to be on the safe side, if they do
claim to have references to such a practice at the OHC, then get photocopies
of whatever it is that they're referring to, so that you have your
documentation in case you ever want to sell the car.

>> What's he asking for the car, anyway?
>
>12K, Auto. PS/PB A/C radio, power antenna.  SSI's. Very clean.

If indeed it has a factory 425 and you can document it, it would be one rare
car and probably worth that price, even if the color has been changed.

OTOH, if the engine cannot be confirmed or documented as factory-installed,
then that price is kind of high.

$12,000 sounds about right for a real nice, all original 442 convert, so use
that as a baseline, subtracting for the color-change, adding for the rare
engine (if documentable).

Actually, check the archives; I seem to recall vaguely a mention of Olds
dropping 425's into the last '67's at the factory, but don't recall the
outcome of that discussion.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:21:00 -0300
Subject: '69 Cutlass 4bbl Red Air cleaner paint

A couple questions:

1)  I am about to paint the 4bbl Air cleaner on my Cutlass, and I have had
little luck finding a close match to the shade of red that is on it.  It (as
most of you know) is kind of an orangish-red and I have looked all over, and
haven't found anything too close.  The closest I have found so far is Krylon
"Banner Red," but it still doesn't have quite enough of the orangish tint to
it.  Anyone know where to find something closer without having it custom
mixed?

2)  I am still looking for a paint match for the Gold color high-heat
resistant engine paint on my 350, and every single color I have doesn't
quite match.  Year one told me that they discontinued selling what they had,
due to the fact that it really didn't match either.  Has anyone found a good
reliable paint that matches?

Thanks,

It's good to be back!
  .
/ | \
| | |
|/|\|
\ | /
Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:18:51 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oil discrepancies....

>You all know I have an '86
>442, 307-9, etc..(gold plated rocker cover gaskets too... :-)  )
>Changed the oil yesterday.  Got out a little over 4 quarts (filter
>included..) not too unusual given the way this things dribbles...but
>here's the weird part...I put four quarts back in and the dipstick reads
>FULL!  Take it out drive it a little, let it sit a little, stickl still
>reads FULL!

     I have to agree with Andy Green's comments.  Many auto makers have
     taken to reducing the oil level in the pan as a way to decrease
     windage drag on the crank and thus increase gas mileage.  A friend's
     Fiero with the 4 cyl only took 3 quarts of oil!

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: dedarnell@electro-matic.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:45:14 -0300
Subject: installing 455

Ok, the engine is going in this weekend.  The car is a '71 cutlass
convertible, and the engine is a freshly rebuilt 455 with a TH400 trans.
I've got the big block motor mounts and frame mounts(Thanks to all that let
me know they exist), Hooker Super comp headers (3202), and I took the
crossmember off for the trans, and I plan on putting the engine/trans in as
one piece.   Any tips or warnings when putting the engine back in.  Someone
told me to move the brake distribution valve, or I'll lose brakes from heat
off the headers.  Is this true?  What are the chances of me moving that
without breaking any of the lines?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

------------------------------

From: "LCPL JACKS AIMD/IMO3  X7402" <j3910@boxer.navy.mil>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:55:11 -0300
Subject: Re: One for the Cutlass folks

> >Mike was There For All of Us When He Said:
> >
>
> He wasn't there for me........Ignorance is bliss and I for one am not!
>
> I really get a kick out of people wh complement my Jetstar 88 by saying
> "Nice Impala"  Then I kindly tell them what the car is.  I don't get
> uptight about it.
>
Tony is right you all... I have had so many folks who didn't know
what an F-85 was or call it by its twin, I think it's
the pontiac side of the family. I simply reply sorry to correct you,
but it's an F-85 then I give them the rundown on the car and it's
history. After that we have one more educated; late model 4 bangin'
buyin' fool!!

Ben

------------------------------

From: MECHWARRIOR2MASTER@prodigy.com ( MAT M NADROFSKY)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:27:10 -0300
Subject: My '70 Olds Cutlass 4-Door

Hello there, I am new to this Olds E-mail group and I'd like to tell
you all a little about the car that I own.  It's a 1970 Oldsmobile
Cutlass Supreme.  The car was a light green originally, and when I
had the body job done I decided to paint it 1976 Corvette Metallic
Green.  The dark paint was accented by the new black vinyl roof I had
installed and I also let a local chrome shop, re-dip the bumpers.
After I had the exterior done, I moved on to up the performance area
a little bit.  I decided that even though the stock 350 rocket engine
was a solid performer, I needed a little bit more.  A buddy of mine
managed to come across a '66 425 CID big block Olds, out of a Delta
88.  The engine came with a set of Olds "A" casting heads and a
forged crank!  I believe that these came as OEM material on that make
of engine.  Well, I decided to spruce the big-block up with an
Edelbrock 750 carburetor, Performer 455 manifold, and a set of
Dynomax 1'3/4" headers.  I decided I needed more cam and threw in the
matching edelbrock performer-plus camshaft as recommended with the
edelbrock performance power package.  I bored the block 0.030" over
and had a set of GM performance parts pistons with moly rings dropped
in.  The powerplant runs on a '76 olds HEI ignition, and I plan to
get an MSD-6AL ignition in the future.  Overall this engine moves my
4000 + pound Olds to an estimated low 13 second run on street tires!
The horsepower I'm pushing is close to 450, and the torque is well
over 530 lb. ft.  I plan to take the olds over to a drag way in my
area and I'll let you all know what it runs exactly.  I threw on a
set of REAL quiet mufflers and right now the car makes a great
sleeper.  The only thing that kind of gives it away would be the
Autometer Tach and gauges on the interior.  I found that an Autometer
Autoguage tach (the chrome one) fits right in the stock instrument
panel where the '70 Olds OEM electric clock used to sit.  My car has
the stock GM 12-Bolt rear end.  I am currently looking for a posi and
if any of you out there know of a company that makes one, or you have
one yourself, give me a ring.  I plan to purchase a set of Hoosier
DOT drag tires for the car in the future.  Do any others out there
have a modified Olds 4-Door.  If so, I'd love to hear all about it.
I think that Oldsmobile is one of the great performance names in
automobile history.  Also, if anyone else out there is looking to
spruce up their Olds big block, the Edelbrock performance power
package is the way to go.  It makes my Olds 425 pull like a freight
train! :)

Don and Mat Nadrofsky

------------------------------

From: "Jim & Tina R." <rabid@cybrzn.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:20:43 -0300
Subject: RE: 4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters

Here are my personal observations (from what I've seen) about the 70 442 =
tailights. The lenses on my 442 do not have anything on the outside red =
part that is raised up. My 70 Supreme has a actual piece of chrome that =
is pressed onto the raised area. I have also seen them painted silver, =
instead of the chrome on other Cutlasses. A final note, ALL of the NOS =
lenses I have seen have been painted silver.

- ----------
From:  oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca[SMTP:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca]
Sent:  Monday, May 19, 1997 11:54 AM
To:  Rabid
Subject:  4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters

I once heard that the taillights on *most* 1970 4-4-2s were different
than those on the Cutlass models.  Each of the four Cutlass lenses
supposedly had a silver or white pinstripe around the edge of the red
part of the lens, and this stripe was not applied to the 4-4-2 lenses.
Can anyone corroborate this information?  I know that I pulled a set of
non-striped lenses off of a '70 4-4-2 that was on its way to the
junkyard several years ago.  I will check the garage -- if I still have
them I would be happy to sell them.  Anyway, were there any other
taillight oddities in the '64-'72 Cutlass / 4-4-2 lines?  From what
Graham is saying, sounds like there was something special about the '68
Cutlass S / 4-4-2 taillights...

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:56:16 -0300
Subject: Olds "Dust-off" (5/17), and List Members Meeting

It was nice to finally meet a few of you list members out there at the
"Dust-off" at Finley Olds. in S. Beloit, Wi. this last weekend.  There were
quite a few nice cars out there, and the weather turned out to be great (a
little too much, ouch... sunburn :)).  I hung around there most of the day,
and afterwards Dave Brown, and Karl Aune (spelling correct?) went to A&B Auto
(salvage yard) to go scraping around.  We didn't stop at Charley Brown's to
eat at 4:00 figuring we had everyone that was going to go there.

After spending some time there, and watching Dave spend his money :), we
split for some food, and went to my "repair place" (garage) to talk Olds.,
and eat the food.  The day got ended short when the wife called saying the
kid took a dive and needed a trip to the ER.  (Sorry guys, we'll get together
again, soon)  The kid was somewhat ok (after a bit), since he smashed the
ends of his fingers on both hands, and tore a nail completely off of one
finger.  After confirming no broke bones, and getting him taped up, I finally
got to eat a dinner at 10 that night (ughhh.., aren't kids fun).  BTW, Connor
is almost 2 yrs. now, but he's pretty tough, weathered it pretty good for as
bad as I'm sure it hurt.

Anyways, there were quite a few items we found when at the salvage yard, and
I'll try and remember what was there, and eventually I'm going to get Dave to
come out here, and we'll go through the place with a pen, and paper, and
write down everything, and post to the list.

As for the near future, it would be nice to have a get-together with some
other list members nearby, at some time soon.  Had a good time, was just a
little too short (so much Olds. to discuss... so little time...).

Dave, you'll have to arrange a trip out in the future, and I'll SHOW you what
the windowed mains look like (open up a motor in the garage, which I would
have done, had it not been for the phone call).  Otherwise, I'm looking
forward to our "extended road trip" later this fall, it should be a good
time.

Talk to everyone later,
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:01:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating

Robert Barry wrote:
>
> Geez, I guess it will give me time to install that aftermarket
> defroster grid on my rear window. Now, let me see, where did I
> put that soapy water...

It's on the top shelf over the workbench right
next to the clock that won't run and the WD-40.   ;)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:12:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 taillights, OAI canisters

I once heard that the taillights on *most* 1970 4-4-2s were different
than those on the Cutlass models.  Each of the four Cutlass lenses
supposedly had a silver or white pinstripe around the edge of the red
part of the lens, and this stripe was not applied to the 4-4-2 lenses.
Can anyone corroborate this information?

     Correct.  I have seen both silver paint on the raised outline on
     the lens and, alternately, a separate stainless steel trim piece.
     I wonder if one or the other was a mid-year design change (ie, the
     paint to replace the trim piece as a cost savings)?  The 442
     lenses had neither.

...were there any other taillight oddities in the '64-'72 Cutlass /
4-4-2 lines?  From what Graham is saying, sounds like there was
something special about the '68 Cutlass S / 4-4-2 taillights...

     I seem to recall the same sort of thing on the 68s.  I also believe
     that the 69 (and 70, if I remember correctly) taillights had either
     silver or black paint on the sides, depending on whether the car was a
     Cutlass or 442.  And the 67, with the over/under taillights used a red
     taillight over a white backup light on the non-442s (and Supremes?)
     and two red taillights with separate bumper-mounted backup lights on
     the 442.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30



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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª681
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