To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #619


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 18 April 1997       Volume 01 : Number 619

Re: Headers
Re: Clock...
Re:
RE: Hot Wheels 442 W30
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: '79 Cutlass Diesel info wanted
Re: 66 Delta  codes
1974 Oldsmobile Examiners For Sale (4/18)
Re: I bought a car today
WANTED: 87 Cutlass Fender
Re: Headers
Re: head games
Re: I bought a car today
test
Re: test
69 442 dash
Re: '79 Cutlass Diesel info wanted
Re: ª's
Hi, AZ visit
Re: Headers
Re: test
Hurst wheels
Re: 81 cutlass
Re: 70 4-4-2 model
Re: Decal Catalog
attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners
Re: replacement clutch
Re:
GETTING OUT
Re: GETTING OUT
Re: replacement clutch
Re: your search is over
Re: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)
Re: GETTING OUT
Re: ª's
Re: Decal Catalog
Pony cars (WAS Re: "Real" Musclecars)
Re: Hot Wheels 442 W30
Re: 68 442 stuff
Re: Hot Wheels 442 W30
Re: Stripe Options
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners
Re: replacement clutch
68 442 stuff
Re: lites and stuff
Re: ª's
Re: Trim parts & chrome for 57 Olds 88 convertible
Re: Wheel Question
Re: Stripe Options
68 442 stuff -Reply
Re: head games
Re: TCC lock-up (was: Carb Problem?)
Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)
Re: GETTING OUT
Re: head games
Re: head games -Reply
Re[2]: head games

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:39:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers

Erik Nowacki wrote:
>
>         I am the proud owner of a 1972 Vista Cruiser, 455, 4bbl, dual
> exhaust (almost a 442).  I am contemplating putting headers on it when I
> have the engine rebuilt.  PAW lists Headman headers at a decent price for
> the VC, but looking at the clearance between the head and A/C box it seems
> like a very tight fit.  Has anyone tried headers in a big block  VC or
> Cutlass with A/C??
>
>         Also, I am building a 455 for it.

  I was planning to have the heads ported and the
> larger valves installed, but a friend of mine warned me not to port or put
> the larger valves in because I would gain horsepower at the top but lose a
> lot of bottom end torque ( which is nice to have).  What are your opinions
> on porting and larger valves??
>
>         Compression ratios:  What compression ratios are possible to run on
> pump gas??  I can afford premium, but am not willing to purchase racing gas
> for my commuter/hauler/fun car.
>
>         Thanks
>
>         Erik Nowacki
> Erik,

I had a '73 VC w/455 & AC.  My problem wasn't the AC when it came to
headers, but the starter & body braces at the lower rear of the engine
area.  The body braces had to be discarded & the starter removal was a
chore.  The starter had to be removed annualy because of high heat
destroying the solonoid.  At ordinary rpm's, I saw no advantage either
even though I had changed to a '70 442 camshaft, Edlebrock intake,
Holley carb, & CD package for the recurved distributor.

Overall, I hated those headers.  After 5 years of suffering, they rusted
& I was able to put the exhaust back stock.  I have tightened all the
header bolts & changed all the header gaskets that I am going to.

Compression ratio isn't the only concern that you have.  If the cam is
right, you can run 9 1/2 or even 10:1 compression w/no special needs
beyond premium gsas.  Consult some cam manufacturers as to reasonable
combinations to meet your needs.

Your friend is right about radical valve work.  It is just as easy to
lose low end torque because of valve & head combinations as it is to
make a wrong cam choice.  I would go easy on that type of thing.
Seeking a good 5500-6000 engine is practical & can be a terror
anywhere.  High rpm's are only for the strip or very high speed.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dan Bennett <DBennett@asuvax.eas.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:43:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Clock...

Mike Hall wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a good, working clock for the IP of a 1972 Cutlass?
>
> I have tried the WD-40 route to no avail with mine...
>
> Thanks In Advance!
> Mike
>
> Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
> Home E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
> The Oldsmobile Stable:
>      1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...
>      1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
>      1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

Check with Jim Chermack, <chermac@exis.net>,  I bought one from him a
month of two ago and it works fine, good price too.
- --
Dan Bennett
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:53:27 -0300
Subject: Re:

At 07:05 PM 4/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>My grandmother has a '86 98  that recently aquired a case of the gremlins
>it aparently is having a few odd electrical problems (interior lights
>mostly) but the main concern is a small box on the drivers side of the
>engine compartment (as described to me it sound like it is directly
>opposite the battery)   aparently it has been buzzing and vibrating
>occasionally after the car is shut off   couple days ago it ran for a
>couple hours constantly   a neighbor disconnected it and the car hasnt
>been driven    I suspect I'm going to end up working on this and am
>wondering what this mysterious little box is    any ideas?
>
>thanks alot
>           Dustin
>
>
Call me when you get to it, I'll zip out there with ya (Or you could bring
it here...) Not sure what it might be offhand, so I won't make any guesses.

As for the other technical issue, the ECM's code 12 you reported finding is
normal.  It's an indication that the computer is seeing no distributor
reference pulse (tach signal) Which it ~won't~ if the engine's not running.
If you have three code 12's and a pause, then three more code 12's being
displayed over and over again, there are no stored fault codes in the ECM,
so you're deadended there.  Again, I'd check the Temp Sensor, though, cuz
that often wont set a code.

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: "Jim & Tina R." <rabid@cybrzn.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:53:20 -0300
Subject: RE: Hot Wheels 442 W30

>Blaine Sanders sez:
>=20
> The Hot Wheels 442 W-30 sucks! =20

>I thought it was pretty cool. I'm staring at two of them (one with the
>original Hot Wheel Crager SS-type mags and another with the seven-spoke
>mags) hanging from my bulletin board here at w*rk . I don't know how =
they
>run 'cause I never take them out of the pack! Be thankful you got a Hot
>Wheel of a car you own? in the first place. No Delta 88 anything from
>Revell, Testors, Hot Wheels, Matchbox, Corgi, Dinky, OR Tootsie!!

>BTW anyone know if they made promos of '69 Deltas?

>Oh, and thanks guys for the thread about "what is a musclecar" As of =
three
>days ago, I didn't own a one, but today I do! (made it by 55 cubic =
inches!)
>However, I think a musclecar should be limited to weighing UNDER two =
tons!

>Paul Fikaris
>fikaris@en.com
>'69 Delta 88 conv 455 (4,472 lbs fully loaded) (me+olds+full tank of
>hi-test)

I think the yellow W30 is pretty neat. But, have any of you seen the =
1995 HW Treasure Hunt W30? It is awesome. Painted Medium Blue with white =
stripes and white interior, it has real rider (rubber) redline tires. =
Only 10,000 were produced. Awesome!!

Jim Rabideau
70 W30

------------------------------

From: Kabootski@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:10:30 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

If this is your first car, Bill, you will have a LOT of mistakes...

------------------------------

From: Kabootski@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:20:21 -0300
Subject: Re: '79 Cutlass Diesel info wanted

I know someone that might be interested, but what is the condition of the
car?  Value wise, its probably not worth that much, especially with the
manual transmission.  Let me know what he's asking.

Duane
Kabootski@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:35:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Delta  codes

- ----------
> From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@leba.net>
> To: olds list <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Re: 66 Delta  codes
> Date: Thursday, April 17, 1997 8:25 PM
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, jones wrote:
>
> > Ok you number  gurus tell me about my car.
> > The Vin is 35867 6X120774
> >
> > The cowl tag says  12B Lansing Michigan
> >                              ST 6635867    Body BK 237
> >                              TR 917           Paint 237
> >                              ACC ( I think... it has glob of something
> > partialy covering this)
> > Thanks in advance
> > Walter
>
> Well, since Greg wimped out on this one, I'll give you what I have.
>
> 6635867 is a '66 Oldsmobile (3) Delta 88 convertible (5867)
>
> 12B is the build date, 2nd (B) week of December (12).  That would be
1965.
>
> BK is the Kansas City assembly plant.  237 looks like PART of the body
> number, there should be more.  I don't know where the Lansing part comes
> in, unless it says Oldsmobile above it or something.  The BK means it
came
> from Kansas City.  I don't think they built bodies and shipped them to
> Kansas City, there should have been a Fisher Body plant nearby.  The X in
> the VIN is listed in my '72 shop manual as Fairfax, KS.  That page is
> missing out my '66 manual is missing.  Also 237 may be the whole body
> number, as this the sequence number for the convertible body style at
that
> plant and it is an early production car.
>
> Trim 917 is Parchment Pearl Morocceen (vinyl) with black carpeting.
>
> I don't think you have the paint code right.  It should be letter, not
> numbers and will tell the paint color and probably the convertible top
> color.  Please check this again.
>
> You are right I typed it wrong. The paint is R1 or maybe RI.   After the
Acc it is blank does this mean it didnt have any options? The car now has
power seat and tilt telescope wheel, trunk and hood lights The 237 must be
the whole body ª as you said cause thats all thats there. It does say
General Motors Corp. above the Lansing Michigan ( that was under the washer
hose)
Thanks again
Walter
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:13:15 -0300
Subject: 1974 Oldsmobile Examiners For Sale (4/18)

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to sell:

An incomplete set of 1974 Oldsmobile Automotive Examiners from the New
Car Merchandising Department.  These make the following competive
comparisons:

Volume 74-9   Omega vs Mustang II
Volume 74-10   Cutlass vs Montego MX
Volume 74-11   Omega vs Valiant Scamp
Volume 74-12   Omega vs Maverick Grabber
Volume 74-13   Cutlass vs Grand Torino
Volume 74-14   Omega vs Comet
Volume 74-15   Ninety-Eight Regency vs Continental
Volume 74-16   Omega vs Dart Swinger
Volume 74-17   Cutlass Supreme vs Cougar XR7
Volume 74-18   Cutlass vs Le Mans
Volume 74-19   Ninety-Eight Regency vs Electra 225 LTD
Volume 74-20   Cutlass Salon vs Monte Carlo
Volume 74-21   Delta 88 Royale vs LTD Brougham
Volume 74-22   Toronado vs Thunderbird
Volume 74-23   Delta 88 Royale vs Marquis Brougham
Volume 74-24   Ninety-Eight Regency vs New Yorker Brougham
Volume 74-25   Ninety-Eight Regency vs Imperial Le Baron
Volume 74-26   Ninety-Eight vs New Yorker

These are each one to one and a half pages long and compare features and
prices between the two cars.  A black and white photo of each car is at
the top of the first page.  An index of all 26 volumes that were issued
is included.  $15.00, including shipping to any address in North
America.  (4/18/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
any of these items, or if you would like additional information about
any of them.  Thank you.

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA ª3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:31:32 -0300
Subject: Re: I bought a car today

Like I told the other half when I told him that rationale - " I worked on
that for a good 10 minutes and it sounded feasible to me" -


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 , '72 Vista Cruiser , '72 Vista Cruiser
project

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:36:12 -0300
Subject: WANTED: 87 Cutlass Fender

Anyone can help this guy?

I directed him to National Automotive Lines, try calling the dealer, and maybe
a boneyard fender from the rustless areas of the US...

Forwarded message:
> From DFhamtMI@aol.com Thu Apr 17 04:02:07 1997
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:01:37 -0400 (EDT)
> To: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
> I saw your posting on AOL, and thought you might be able to answer a
question > for me.  My '87 Olds Cutlass Supreme is in the shop thanks to a hit
and run > on the driver's side.  Work on it has come to a standstill, because
they are > having a hard time getting a fender.  The guy told me it is on
national back > order...apparently it is a popular part.  Would you know if
this is true, or > if the guy is giving me the runaround? I'd appreciate any
help...I MISS MY > CAR.  I'm driving a loaner, a Neon, a go-cart! LOL
Thanks... :) - -- Chris  B. Witt wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:32:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers

At 12:58 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>        I am the proud owner of a 1972 Vista Cruiser, 455, 4bbl, dual
>exhaust (almost a 442).  I am contemplating putting headers on it when I
>have the engine rebuilt.  PAW lists Headman headers at a decent price for

NO STOP DON'T!!! While people here are divided about the necessity or
importance of using headers on near-stock 455's, I think they _all_ agree
that you'll really end up paying if you cheap out and get some "decent
price" headers. I did this and regretted it, as did others on this list.

I'd recommend sticking with the stock exhaust manifolds, considering your
application. If you must go with headers, buy a high-quality pair of Hooker
headers; the extra $150 will be well-worth it. The cheap ones will have to
be modified to fit, no matter what the manufacturer tells you.

>        Also, I am building a 455 for it.  I have picked up some C heads at
>the local boneyard, and I am scouting all of the local yards for a 68-69
>Toro for block and crank.  I was planning to have the heads ported and the
>larger valves installed, but a friend of mine warned me not to port or put
>the larger valves in because I would gain horsepower at the top but lose a
>lot of bottom end torque ( which is nice to have).  What are your opinions
>on porting and larger valves??

Getting rid of the AIR bumps in the exhaust port and teardropping the valve
guides would be about all you'd want to do. Check that those "C" heads don't
already have the larger valves; no sense buying something you already own.
If you've got the money to spend, go for the larger valves; they're not so
big that you'll kill your low-end torque (don't see too many 442's or
Toronados having trouble spinning their tires, do ya? :)

>        Compression ratios:  What compression ratios are possible to run on
>pump gas??  I can afford premium, but am not willing to purchase racing gas
>for my commuter/hauler/fun car.

You can run the 10.25:1 pistons on pump gas, if you recurve your distributor
(do it yourself; cheaper and better)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:32:31 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

At 06:38 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> I think I've figured out this whole J-head C-head thing, could someone
>> verify my understanding:
>> J-head - lowest compression, 75/76
>> C-head - really high comp, really big valves, etc..
>>
>> AM I correct that their are 10 heads for a 455, numbered roughly in order
>> of performance A - J?  (If so, would a '74 have better than J?)
>
>J heads are indeed lowest compression. The heads are not in any order of
>performance. K heads are better than Js for performance. K heads are the
>service replacements for W-30s and marine applications. To my knowledge
>the A and B heads never came with 455s. In '74 the only 455 head
>produced for '74 cars was the J. Although the Ks and KAs might have been
>availible.

Well, the "J" heads and the "C" heads (as well as the A,B,E,G and H heads)
had the exact same compression, since they shared the standard 80cc
combustion chambers. OTOH, "J" heads only came on low-compression cars with
small intake valves, while "C" heads were available on the low-compression
and high-compression 425's and 455's, with both small and large intake valves.

I don't know what size combustion chambers the "K" series of heads had. The
"D" and "F" heads reputedly had smaller 72cc combustion chambers, for higher
compression; I don't know of someone who has verified that figure, however.

Speaking of verification, I've got a set of bone-stock, untouched "B" heads
and "E" heads that I plan on cc'ing on the combustion chamber, intake and
exhaust ports, as well as measuring the actual size of the ports, to add to
the chart in the FAQ. I've also got a couple pairs of untouched "C" heads on
my Toros, but I don't want to pull them off just to cc them. There are many
rumors and half-truths that circulate regarding the adequacy of certain
heads for performance use, and I'd like to get some hard numbers out there
for comparison. From the numbers Chris Witt posted comparing a "C" head with
a "G" head, it appeared that, contrary to popular rumors, the "G" head had
significantly larger ports!

So, who has an original, untouched "F" or "D" head to cc?

And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:39:51 -0300
Subject: Re: I bought a car today

So you've seen our house (Circa 1915, 2 stories, decorative Arts & Crafts
trim that could probably build a few yachts for us all, 5
bedrooms........etc)  I still think the house outweighs the cars (slightly).

Yes that was a blatant-bald faced rationalization for getting another car
and since my ex who started me in Oldsmobiles made a comment recently about
a '66 Toro being the Olds to have - I guess i couldn't resist getting our
daughter one (a bit of nose rubbing there) to use if she wants.  He & I
have a friendly car-competition that goes back to high school - I've beat
him to a few and he's beat me to a few, we're about even to date.

Maybe I'm just trying to keep my little bit of California from bouncing
quite so much during our tremors (putting all this metal around the house).

I imagine I'll have to subscribe to the Toro list now & get my Anti-virus
vaccination.

Lisa (I can't figure out how to switch my signature on this newest mail
program so I'll pull a Joe P act & take up 4 lines listing them all)

'67 Delta 88
'72 Vista Cruiser
'72 Vista Cruiser
'66 Toronado

------------------------------

From: Aaron D Eoff <sheep542@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:49:44 -0300
Subject: test

This is a test

------------------------------

From: hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:53:52 -0300
Subject: Re: test

Aaron D Eoff wrote:
>
> This is a test
It Works, now write something worthwhile

------------------------------

From: JNelson751@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:55:43 -0300
Subject: 69 442 dash

does anyone know where i can get the faux wood applique for the ashtray cover
on the dash on a 69 442 ?
           thanx
     jeff nelson
 69 442 conv

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:53:06 -0300
Subject: Re: '79 Cutlass Diesel info wanted

At 09:21 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>My father owns a 1979 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon Coupe.  It has the 260 diesel
>V-8 with a 5-speed manual transmission.  This was apparently a very rare
>combination; he believes that less than 400 such cars were produced and
>would like to verify that figure.

Hmmm, that'd be one of those "rare, and for good reason!" cars. Yes, it is
unusual, and yes, it is rare, but in this case, unless you had a diesel
fanatic (and they're out there; oops, I mean, they're in here...) who wanted
to shift for themselves and liked the fastback body style (that is what the
Salon indicates, isn't it?), then you'd have a tough time finding a buyer at
any price, even if the car is in showroom condition.

>Dad is considering selling the car and wonders if there would be any
>collector interest.  He realizes that the Olds diesel has a bad reputation
>but still believes that the car's rarity might appeal to an Olds enthusiast.

I suppose that if it would appeal to anyone, it would be someone here on
this list. I don't imagine that many people would like to make this their
daily driver or their "cruise-night special", so unfortunately that leaves
those who are interested in it for its oddity, just to have around. It's in
about the same position that a 6-cylinder, three-on-the-tree '70 Vista
Cruiser without the third seat; perhaps it's one of two or three with that
particlar combination, but I'd much rather own and drive a 350/2-bbl version
with the third seat, even though there were tens of thousands of VC's
produced with that combination.

>If anyone can suggest a good source for production information on the car,
>or  has an idea of the car's value, please let me know.  I have already

I don't want to appear too harsh; for the right person, this could be the
buy of a lifetime, and they might willingly pay dearly for the opportunity
to own a car with this rare and unusual combination of options. I'm just
afraid that people like this are probably as rare as the car itself, and
will probably be as difficult to find. If your father is patient, he might
be able to get perhaps $1500 for the car, or perhaps even $2500 from an
ultra-diesel enthusiast if it is in showroom condition. If it needs work,
lop a good thousand off those figures.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I can see the average Olds enthusiast being
much happier with a 307/auto equipped Cutlass Supreme of the same vintage,
which regularly sell around here for between $500 and $1800, even though
they're as far from rare as you can get.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: JNelson751@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:00:49 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

thanks Mike
it could be and it is(a 442)
That matches my car
I was asking to find the interior color,it semed more of a off white than a
white
  jeff nelson
  69 442 conv

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:59:19 -0300
Subject: Hi, AZ visit

Hey, folks...

stopped by to say hi, blindly... if you want your reply to reach my eyes,
include me in the reply: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

Buying a '68 Toronado, my 1st Toro driver-candidate! I am pretty happy about
that.

Went to AZ for Easter vacation... did some boneyarding. Some places were
expensive, and had squat, others fair & had a lot.

Example: J&R? wrecking... ONE 68-9 Cutlass, a post coupe, and a '69 Toronado
rear bumper. I picked off the 69 Cutlass 3 items: rear lic. plate holder,
front parking light, and some other piddling item. Counter guy says $45. I
counter offered $15. We did not come to an agreement... the 69 Toro bumper:
VERY pretty, nice, with taillites... $300. Not to me.

OTOH, Desert Valley Auto Wrecking: HUGE selection, a few early Toros, Row of
Olds about 50 cars long by 2 wide by two high... and fair prices! There's a
whole '69 442 with original engine still in it.  Got a mirror and pair of xst
manifolds there. They had Toronado window seal rubber/metal parts, but a bit
pricey for me at that time.

Other great place was in Casa Grande, AZ, about 30 mi south. Oh, what's this?
a '70 Toro GT.... rear bumper still there, no console though?! Never was- has
bench seat. E heads in place. OM trans, ratio???

Got a few Pontiac air cleaners to make W30-esque air cleaners out of- fat
snouts! Family had to stay an extra week due to kid's ear infection,
misdiagnosed as a virus at first. Extra $$ for that. I had two "luggages" to
bring home, about 70ª each :-)  Spent quite a bundle, but got  some really
primo mirrors, etc. Even a RH mirror for the 68-9 Cutlass! Saw *no* C-head big
blocks outside of the "older car" yards, but a couple G or Ga head 455's still
around.

Visited with Dick Bybee of RB Sales- he has a nice 67 Delta Custom project car
if anyone's interested. I recommend him highly. Call him at 602-984-4442 if
you wanna talk AZ Olds stuff. Tell him the Rocket Scientist sent ya.

Kid's fine now. All back here, working again. Let me know if you need parts, a
list of parts cars, or a list of Rocket Science Parts & Services!
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:58:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Headers

At 11:32 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 12:58 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>        I am the proud owner of a 1972 Vista Cruiser, 455, 4bbl, dual
>>exhaust (almost a 442).  I am contemplating putting headers on it when I
>>have the engine rebuilt.  PAW lists Headman headers at a decent price for
>
>NO STOP DON'T!!! While people here are divided about the necessity or
[snip]
>I'd recommend sticking with the stock exhaust manifolds, considering your
>application. If you must go with headers, buy a high-quality pair of Hooker

I also forgot to add that, if you do go for headers, I have dibs on the
stock exhaust manifolds!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:07:37 -0300
Subject: Re: test

At 11:49 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>This is a test

Boy, that was easy! So how'd I do, teach?

(Bob, avoiding his grading as usual...)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: hanthorn <hanthorn@inwave.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:11:43 -0300
Subject: Hurst wheels

I have a set of original Hurst rims, not Hurst olds rims. George Hurst
rims. They are a two piece rim, steel outer w/ aluminum inner. I am
missing 2 centers, and they are very hard to find. the wheels were only
made from 65-69. I have all 4 trim rings and 2 of the flat centers. they
also made spinner type(even more rarer) I want to put them on my 68 442
wich is Jade gold w/ a tan top. Its got white buckets, black carpet and
auto on column. 130,000 miles on it and never been touched, and still
runs and drives like new!!! I also need a set of D heads for a friend of
mine......you got parts...I got money!!

                   http.//hanthorn@inwave.com

------------------------------

From: "Frank Gonzalez" <frank@tridentsound.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:17:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 81 cutlass

- ----------
> From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 81 cutlass
> Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 3:04 AM
>
>
> >>
> >I've done this!!~ The 350 motor will work well, but you'll need to
change
> >the springs in the front. A stock 350 motor mount kit will work just
fine
> >and... the th200 will bolt up. The th350 tranny will also work, without
> >changing the driveshaft. I can go out and look at the car and tell you
> >which bolt holes to use to mount the engine to as the motor is out of
the
> >car. One problem I ran across is emissions. Several states have
emissions
> >tests or inspections and will not accept an older motor with a newer
> >vehicle.

How can they tell difference bewtween modern 307 and older 350? I thought
they were same on outside?
Frank
70 442
71 442 W30 convt
72 cutlass S
90 LSC s\e

------------------------------

From: cwhitbeck@juno.com (Carl L Whitbeck)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:06:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 4-4-2 model

You can find these model kits at Toys-"R"-Us.  Enjoy!!

Carl (cwhitbeck@juno.com)

------------------------------

From: cwhitbeck@juno.com (Carl L Whitbeck)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:18:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Decal Catalog

Does the catalog include Toronado decals?

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:37:59 -0300
Subject: attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners

Question: Have any of you got replacement upper door panels from a
dealership recently? A 1987 442 is only 10 years old so I have to think that
there are some door panels left in the old GM parts bin. I need camel tan
upper door panels for my 80 442, but any year up to 1987 should work. Also,
has any 442 owners been able to order the inner door panel "442" emblems?
Curious. Thanks.....
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293

------------------------------

From: "Steve Bento" <steveb@thecia.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:56:07 -0300
Subject: Re: replacement clutch

- ----------
> At 05:26 PM 4/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >

> >
> Paul
>
>         Stick with the diaphram. It engages better from a stop and is not
as
> jerky. The Centerforce clutch is awsome. I had one in my W-30 and drag
raced
> the crap out of it with NO failures. It will not suck to the floor like a
> stock diaphram at high RPM.
>
> Jim Chermack
>
>
>
I have to agree with this, I have also used a Centerforce clutch in the
past, although not in an Olds (sorry..) I installed the Centerforce when I
swaped engines and it lasted for the 70k miles I drove the car which
included some memorable 3500-4000 rpm lanches at the dragway shifting at
6000-6500 and the daily commute back and forth to school for 4 years,
definetly worth the 200 bucks I paid for it!!! I sold the car in December
of '95 and to this day that clutch is still in that car!!!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
e-mail: steveb@thecia.net
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Steve Bento" <steveb@thecia.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:56:31 -0300
Subject: Re:

- ----------

> Those times sound right. Although my 80 442 has never seen a dragstrip it
> has done 15.8's on a G-Tech, and this with the lame stock 2.73 rear. Gotta
> think that if I went  with the 3.73's and the better gearing of the 200-R4
> that the 85-87 442's have my 80 would dip into the low 15's and if lucky
> high 14's.
>

Those are good times, when I bought my Cutlass S in '86 I brought it up to
the dragway and was only able to turn mid 16's with the stock 350 and
2.73's!!!!!..Those 3.73's will make a BIG difference:-)

> >"its got a Chevy in it, LS6 454"...Well my jaw dropped and I instantly
> changed the subject to OAI hood,
> >All I could think of was why did you do it!!!! Granted I think the Chevy
> >big block is one of the best engines out there but I don't think it
belongs
> >between the fenders off an Olds.....Anyway after all the money this guy
> >spent on the car it only went 13.8's!!!  I wish I brought my Olds up
there
> >tonight.......
>
> I don't think the LS6 belongs there either but what can you do?
>

True, it is his car, at least he didn't have to hack up any sheetmetal to
swap it in...

>
> Contrary to many Oldsmobile owners ignorance of the great LT1 engine, the
> 4th gen Z/28's are fast. Stock for Stock the 93's are a bit faster than
the
> 94-97's by a tenth or so. There are recorded times on the f-body time slip
> page of bone stock 4th gens running 13.4 to 13.6's, but the average for a
> stock 4th gen is 13.7 to 14.0 usually. These cars break loose easy under
WOT
> shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 (I should know my car does it with a 3.23 posi
rear)
> The 4th gens have a tremendous flat torque band and make most of their
power
> in the upper rpm range as opposed to the old L98's (in late 3rd gen's)
which
> were low end grunt motors. As for the SS running 13.2's I ~seriously~
doubt
> he was stock, best time I have seen from an SS is 13.5 bone stock.  It
isn't
> that hard to break into the high 12's with the 4th gen Z's. With a
> supercharger and traction mods 11's are easy.

Actually I guess I am kinda one of those ignorant Olds owners, last season
I raced a 4th gen Firebird Formula(or Firehawk, I think???) and it only
turned 14.2's I figured the times would be much quicker (especially seeing
that the hood scoop boasted a 305 HP sticker and my car is only rated at
225!!!) Well he did win but not by much....Maybe it was the automatic
tranny that was slowing him down??

> Nice to see you back Steve, look at my sig....I joined the Mustang ranks
> also :-)

Yes!!! Nice car and quick too!!! I am curious though, what was the reaction
of the other F-body list members???? ;-)

Thanks!! actually I never went away, I stayed subscribed but I was only
able to skim through some of the messages, I should have the Olds back on
the road by mid May and ready for some street/strip action!!

> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
> 93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
> 89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
> 80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293
>
>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0
e-mail: steveb@thecia.net
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

>

------------------------------

From: nightfever1976@juno.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:11:04 -0300
Subject: GETTING OUT

Hello all

I was wondering how do I get out of this thing?

------------------------------

From: nightfever1976@juno.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:24:43 -0300
Subject: Re: GETTING OUT



------------------------------

From: James William Townsend <jwt7@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:58:52 -0300
Subject: Re: replacement clutch

Didn't someone just recently warn against using the Centerforce clutches,
since they didn't last very long?

    Jim Townsend

------------------------------

From: TURBO38@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:18:52 -0300
Subject: Re: your search is over

i have a 1970 442 w-30. ram air, rear wing, 4-speed, 390 posi. left rear
quarter damage. its all there, just needs to be molded together.
call 512-462-1404 or email

will
austin tx.

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:21:16 -0300
Subject: Re: "Real" Musclecars (was: Cutlass 442 ???)

At 07:46 PM 4/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>>
>> Ok, I guess I ask this one:
>>
>> What is a ponycar?
>>
>> And no horsing around, ok ;-)
>>
>> Chris Sparks
>> 68 442
>
>A ponycar could be considerd a 2+2. The back seats of which were
>apparently designed by and for aliens.
>
>Danny
>
>
A pony car is one of the Mustang genre.  Mustang = pony.  It all started
with the 1964-1/2 Mustang.  A pony car is one that emulates the Musgang.  It
is not necessarily one of great power and performance.  A muscle car
however, is one of great power and performance.  The first (real production
muscle car) was an early '40s Buick, where they put their big engine in the
small car body, and added compound (dual) carburation.  And they are not
all, obviously, 2+2's, at least in my book.

In the early to mid'60s, Delorean, when he was at Pontiac, convinced the
14th floor people that he should be allowed to build 500 BB Tempests.  The
500 number met the requirement of a 'production' vehicle, for the racing GTO
class.  From small acorns, might Oaks did grow.  Apparently GM management
though that there wasn't too much liability exposure with a production run
of 500, most of which would be snapped up by the racing crowd anyway.  So
they allowed them to be built.

And production wound up exceeding 500 by several dozen times.

With the instant success that these cars provided, it was not long before
Chevy, and Olds joined in too.  At that time, Buick had just introduced
their Riveria, and it seemed to placate the Buick group.  And the other U.S.
makers joined in too.  Even, AMC built a car that sort of competed.

The Wiz

------------------------------

From: "C.R.F." <wizkid@inlink.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re: GETTING OUT

At 02:11 AM 4/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Hello all
>
>I was wondering how do I get out of this thing?
>

You might try sobbaku.

Anon. I

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 05:54:01 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

JNelson751@aol.com wrote:
>
> thanks Mike
> it could be and it is(a 442)
> That matches my car
> I was asking to find the interior color,it semed more of a off white than a
> white
>   jeff nelson
>   69 442 conv

the off white was known as Antique Parchment.

------------------------------

From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:15:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Decal Catalog

On Apr 17, 12:18pm, Carl L Whitbeck wrote:
> Subject: Re: Decal Catalog
> Does the catalog include Toronado decals?
>
>-- End of excerpt from Carl L Whitbeck

Carl,
It sure does.

                                                       ___  ___
                                              /     /    / /  /
                                             / __  /  --/ /  /
       Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 442 stick /_/ /_/ ___/ /__/ Red

             (MCORNEA@pt8244.pto.ford.com)  OCAª 4903

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:58:57 -0300
Subject: Pony cars (WAS Re: "Real" Musclecars)

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) asked:

> >> Ok, I guess I ask this one:
> >>
> >> What is a ponycar?
> >>
> >> And no horsing around, ok ;-)

Danny wittily replied:

> >A ponycar could be considerd a 2+2. The back seats of which were
> >apparently designed by and for aliens.

The Wiz Offeres His 2 Federation Credits:

> A pony car is one of the Mustang genre.  Mustang = pony.  It all started
> with the 1964-1/2 Mustang.  A pony car is one that emulates the Musgang.  It
> is not necessarily one of great power and performance.  A muscle car

<Muscle car anecdotes snipped>

OK, here's what I've understood to be the definition of a 'pony car':

When Lee Iacoca's group came up with the Mustang, it was conceived as
a small sporty car based upon the Falcon/Comet floorpan and drivetrains,
their compact unibody lines.  This made for a very light car.

GM didn't respond to the *pony* car challenge until '67, with the
F-body cars, which need not be named here :).  These were based on *their*
compact unibody, the Chevy II/Nova.

So, the strict definition of a pony car is a frameless (read: spineless :) :)
- -- just kidding, Jason! :) ) 2+2 compact with as much, or even more, engine
than it can handle safely.

Though if Olds was allowed a crack at it, I'm sure they would've made sure
that the chassis was up to Rocket Power standards...




Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:42:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Wheels 442 W30

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
>
> The Hot Wheels 442 W-30 sucks!  And you guys thought the Racing
> Champions one was bad (well, ok.  it is).  This sucker is bright bananna
> yellow and is shaped more like a D*dge Challenger.

Actually I thought the front looked more like a Cougar

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:53:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442 stuff

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Where did you get these figures?  How about TH400 68 442 no W30?

>From memory ;-)
Anyway, '68 442 Holiday coupe:
3 speed  769
4 speed 9433
TH40016517

'68 442 Sports Coupe (with your beloved pillar)
3 speed  373
4 speed 1969 (they built 1 too many!)
TH400 2384

I listed them both just to point out the ~rarity~ of the sports coupe.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:54:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Wheels 442 W30

> I think the yellow W30 is pretty neat. But, have any of you seen the 1995 HW
Treasure Hunt W30?

Jim,
What is this?  I've never seen/heard of this before.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:26:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Stripe Options

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> > Hmmm an Orange stripe.  What color would they have paired that one up
> > to?
>
> Orange stripes were available with the follow colors
>
> > Nocturne Blue Irid (Option E)
> > Ivory (Option T)
> > Juneau Gray Irid (Option V)

I've seen the orange stripe with the above three colors.  BTW, it looked
best with the blue.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:19:33 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

Kabootski@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bill...
>
> But my 1970 Cutlass has both the map light on the dash AND the light on the
> mirror, so the mirror light obviously doesn't replace the dash light.  Maybe
> they had really big maps back then...

Every '70 - '72 Cutlass/442 I've owned has also had both of these.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: Bill Gochenour <3sticks@stjohns.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:03:52 -0300
Subject: Re: attn: 85-87 442/Calais owners

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> Question: Have any of you got replacement upper door panels from a
> dealership recently? A 1987 442 is only 10 years old so I have to think that
> there are some door panels left in the old GM parts bin. I need camel tan
> upper door panels for my 80 442, but any year up to 1987 should work. Also,
> has any 442 owners been able to order the inner door panel "442" emblems?
> Curious. Thanks.....
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio  F-body list since 5/95
> 93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, GU5 (3.23), PEG2
> 89 Mustang GT: Blue, 5.0, M5, many mods...12.78@111mph
> 80 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30:White/Gold, 5.7L, A3, showcar, 1 of 346
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25: White, 5.7L, A3,project car, 1 of 1293


At a swap meet here on Long Island this past sunday at Belmont race
track there was a vendor with all emblems and wheel center caps. Does
the interior "442" emblem your talking about have a red line in the
middle of each digit ? He attends swap meets all season long, the next
biggie is the Olds Spring Dust-off on May 4/97. If he's there do you
want something ?

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|
     * * * IT"S FINALLY HERE * * *
1997 Master Craft ProStar 190 Competition Ski boat
                              (w/LT-1 Vette Motor)

     Visit http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 4/14/97)

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:07:43 -0300
Subject: Re: replacement clutch

I have used a diaphram (sp?) clutch in my car since day one.  I have

never had any troubles from it.  Of course I don't go past 5500 rpm with

the engine.  I had a diaphram clutch stick to the floor in my Dads 66

ch*vy pick up once at very high rpm.  A friend switched his G.T.O. over

to the Borg and Beck style 3 finger clutch.  We had one h*ll of a time

getting it to adjust properly.  He has since replaced it with the
original style diaphram and is as happy as ever.  I would suggest
getting a quality replacement from a name brand rebuilder like Borg

Warner.  I also did learn (the hard way) that there are different types

of linings on the clutch discs today.  There is a low performance type

that will come apart above 4500 rpm.  Make sure you get the other type.

The good lining will appear to have string imbedded in it.  Those string

like fibers hold it all together.  If you have a good clutch rebuilder

locally, they can help you out.  Most good cities have one, look for

driveshaft and/or clutch rebuilders in the phone book.  We have a place

in Terre Haute called All-Tran.  I wouldn't let them work on a

transmission, but they are the place to go for driveshafts and clutches.



My $.03 (long winded)

Dave Wyatt

70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:20:00 -0300
Subject: 68 442 stuff

Gary- my Uncle lives inlantic Pa. It is truly in the middle of nowhere.re.
Hoese and buggys go by his farm all the time:-) Really. I can't wit to tell
himthe production figs for it. I know he bought it from Ohio about 8 years
ago. I don't remember what trans is in it but I think it is the TH 400.





=============================================================================
FRank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: FBS3@oas.psu.edu (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:24:00 -0300
Subject: Re: lites and stuff

Duane- Nipple lites were installed in the Cutlass Cieras starting in 90.
Mine has em and they work great for finding the power window switches at night
or when I am lonely on a business tr... forget it:-)






=============================================================================
FRank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:43:45 -0300
Subject: Re: ª's

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
>
>
> Not all 68 and 69 442's had the culass trim tags, but alot of 68's
> and some 69's had them.

Ok I'll ask this question:
  What is the difference between a Cutlass trim tag and a 442 trim
  tag (I assume we are talking about plastic plate under hood near
  hood weatherstrip on driver's side)

Chris

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:48:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Trim parts & chrome for 57 Olds 88 convertible

jallen wrote:
>
> I am restoring a 57-J2 convertible. Need NOS or Reporduction trim parts

Lucky, Lucky, Lucky dog. :-)  I am envious!  Why can't I find something
nice like that.  Oh well..... :-)

Chris Sparks
68 442

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:50:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Wheel Question

Kabootski@aol.com wrote:
>
> I would say, don't be anal about it.  I put a set of SSIIIs on my black '68
> Cutlass, which didn't even have 14x7 inch SS wheels available as an option,
> and they looked much better than those stupid grey SSIIs...

Some of us happen to like our SSIIs...

Chris Sparks
(68 442.  This rims were made for running, they're gonna run right over
you....)
[think of N. Sinatra's "These boots were made for walking) :-)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:54:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Stripe Options

Paul Hartlieb wrote:

Thanks Phil!

> Orange stripes were available with the follow colors
>
> > Nocturne Blue Irid (Option E)
> > Willow Gold Irid (Option G)
> > Ocean Turquoise Irid (Option K)
> > Teal Blue Irid (Option L)
> > Burgundy Irid (Option N)
> > Silver Green Irid (Option P)
> > Scarlet (Option R)
> > Jade Gold Irid (Option S)
> > Ivory (Option T)
> > Juneau Gray Irid (Option V)
>
> So says the SPECS book.

If you don't mind me asking, what color stripes would have gone with
Teal Frost (Option F)?  Thanks in advance

------------------------------

From: GARY RUBRICH <RUBRICH@bwaafs.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:56:38 -0300
Subject: 68 442 stuff -Reply

Frank,
Where in PA?, what's it near? Either your a poor typist or your reply
was garbled in transmission. Let me know.
                                                  Gary

>>> SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK <FBS3@oas.psu.edu>  4/18/97, 09:20am >>>
Gary- my Uncle lives inlantic Pa. It is truly in the middle of
nowhere.re.
Hoese and buggys go by his farm all the time:-) Really. I can't wit
to tell
himthe production figs for it. I know he bought it from Ohio about 8
years
ago. I don't remember what trans is in it but I think it is the TH
400.





=============================================================================
FRank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red
sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser,
show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon sedan..K&N, dohc exhaust..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:03:12 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?

Huh?  What are you trying to say here?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:31:15 -0300
Subject: Re: TCC lock-up (was: Carb Problem?)

>The car kicks into the locked situations perfectly, but when coming to a
>stop (when you're down around 10 mph., or so), the car will jerk, and buck,
>and if left, will stall.

Having had the pleasure of dealing with this on an early-'80's Ciera...

>Once stalled, it's a crap shoot as to whether it will still want to
>disengage when you start it up, and put it in gear.

I found this process of bonking it into gear will eventually free the
solenoid. If you're quick (into-Drive-*wham*-back-to-Neutral) you can
free the solenoid without stalling the engine, in emergencies.

>An easy temporary fix is to figure out
>which of the connections on the brake pedal controls the TCC (which is found
>by pulling one, and seeing if the brake lights still work, and pulling
>connections until you get it right, BTW, one quick note here, the cruise
>controled cars have a swith on the brake also, so it's possible to have 3 on
>the pedal switch).

I would suggest looking under the hood instead; there's only one two-wire
connector plugged into the transmission, slightly buried but visible from
above, and that's the one to unplug. (This won't free the solenoid as well;
you still have to bonk it free one last time...)

>After finding the correct connection, just leave it off. It's not good to
>leave in that manner for extended periods of time (trans will get hot),
>but it could get you home, and allow you to get the switch somewhere.

It'll waste gas a little when disconnected, too, but the part is pretty
cheap and installation is not too tough. (Ah, a fine Spring day, and our
thoughts turn to bonking our Oldsmobiles... :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:32:51 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Courtesy/Map Lights (was:Re: 1971 cutlass for parts)

>Who woulda ever thought so many pieces of mail would be exchanged
>concerning a dinky little light bulb?

You obviously missed the in-depth discussion of door lock knobs. :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:59:09 -0300
Subject: Re: GETTING OUT

At 01:11 AM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello all
>
>I was wondering how do I get out of this thing?

OK, listen very carefully; look over your left shoulder. You should see a
chrome mushroom-shaped knob. Pull up on it until you hear an audible
"click". Then reach down by the door in the area around your left knee; you
should find some kind of handle or latch. Pull on it. That will release the
latch mechanism, and open your door.

I'm just impressed that you have your computer in your car; you must be
quite technically skilled!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:15:51 -0300
Subject: Re: head games

At 10:03 AM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>
>> And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?
>
>Huh?  What are you trying to say here?

OK, it's a long tube with markings on it in cubic centimeters, and it has a
little valve on the bottom to measure out precise amounts of liquid. I have
*NO* idea where you would buy one of them.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: GARY RUBRICH <RUBRICH@bwaafs.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:31:00 -0300
Subject: Re: head games -Reply

Rob,
 I'm doing some research of my own on big & small block Olds cylinder
heads and concur about what castings are suppose to be good. Some of
the later castings look to have much more potential than the older
ones. Let me know what you have found, I'm sure we can both benefit
from the exchange of info.
                                                   Gary
                                                   72 442 (350)_

>>> "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>  4/17/97,
11:32pm >>>
At 06:38 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> I think I've figured out this whole J-head C-head thing, could
someone
>> verify my understanding:
>> J-head - lowest compression, 75/76
>> C-head - really high comp, really big valves, etc..
>>
>> AM I correct that their are 10 heads for a 455, numbered roughly
in order
>> of performance A - J?  (If so, would a '74 have better than J?)
>
>J heads are indeed lowest compression. The heads are not in any
order of
>performance. K heads are better than Js for performance. K heads are
the
>service replacements for W-30s and marine applications. To my
knowledge
>the A and B heads never came with 455s. In '74 the only 455 head
>produced for '74 cars was the J. Although the Ks and KAs might have
been
>availible.

Well, the "J" heads and the "C" heads (as well as the A,B,E,G and H
heads)
had the exact same compression, since they shared the standard 80cc
combustion chambers. OTOH, "J" heads only came on low-compression
cars with
small intake valves, while "C" heads were available on the
low-compression
and high-compression 425's and 455's, with both small and large
intake valves.

I don't know what size combustion chambers the "K" series of heads
had. The
"D" and "F" heads reputedly had smaller 72cc combustion chambers, for
higher
compression; I don't know of someone who has verified that figure,
however.

Speaking of verification, I've got a set of bone-stock, untouched "B"
heads
and "E" heads that I plan on cc'ing on the combustion chamber, intake
and
exhaust ports, as well as measuring the actual size of the ports, to
add to
the chart in the FAQ. I've also got a couple pairs of untouched "C"
heads on
my Toros, but I don't want to pull them off just to cc them. There
are many
rumors and half-truths that circulate regarding the adequacy of
certain
heads for performance use, and I'd like to get some hard numbers out
there
for comparison. From the numbers Chris Witt posted comparing a "C"
head with
a "G" head, it appeared that, contrary to popular rumors, the "G"
head had
significantly larger ports!

So, who has an original, untouched "F" or "D" head to cc?

And where the heck can I buy a "burette" (sp?)?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:40:52 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: head games

Bob,

Check any science supply stores. You might need to go mail order to one of
these places. The big sci. store near myself only has 40cc and they want
big bucks!

David Brown   Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com, http://www.en.com/users/thall, or
http://www.cybercity.hko.net/ulan_bator/gee/oldsfaq/oldsfaq3.htm

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
OK, it's a long tube with markings on it in cubic centimeters, and it has a
little valve on the bottom to measure out precise amounts of liquid. I have
*NO* idea where you would buy one of them.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª619
********************************
