
oldsmobile-digest        Friday, August 8 1997        Volume 01 : Number 790



Stuck fitting
Overheating Tip
Re: timing chain help please
Re: urgent help needed
A couple Old Olds' Found
wtd: 63 Dyn88 brake booster
NOS Vent Window Handle For Sale (8/8)
Re: Olds 442 Body Panels
Sparky Begs for Assistance!
Re: Stuck fitting
RE: tire size question
Re: tire size question
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: Fuel pump
Re: RED
455 rebuild/ What to use?
Re: Olds 442 Body Panels
getting 455, need help and basic specs
1981 Delta engine swap from 307 to 455 help
Re: 307
Re: Engine paint code
RE: older digest replies
RE: RED
Olds cars for sale
Buffing
Acheiva W-41
RE: 71 442 Altenator
Re: 442 emblems
Re: Aluminum water pumps
Re: Engine paint code
Re: Sparky Begs for Assistance!
Re: 442 Emblems
Re: Lansing list
Re: Celebrations
Re: 442 emblems
Re: A/F and oil questions...
My 4-4-2 story, (long)
RE: Was your car built in Lansing?
Re: 442 Emblems
Re: Lansing list
Re: My 4-4-2 story, (long)
Re: 455 rebuild/ What to use?
Why did it fry? (long)
Re: Why did it fry? (long)
Re: Acheiva W-41
Re: tire size question
Re: Olds 442 Body Panels
Re: delta 88/ auction price

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 21:53:39 +0600
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Stuck fitting

I can't get the expansion valve off of the evaporator of my Vista Crusier.
I've been trying to remove it so I can replace the seal and maybe the whole
valve, but the little nut that holds it on the evaporator is stuck tight.
In fact, the aluminum line from the evaporator is threatening to twist with
it, which would leave me with a kinked line and a bad evaporator.  I've been
dosing it liberally with WD-40 but it still won't budge.  Any ideas?  I'm
pretty tempted at this point just to leave it, charge it up and take my
chances.  If I twist too hard on it I'm gonna break something.  Even tried
tinking it some with a hammer.  BTW, I am holding a wrench on the expansion
valve so that's taking most of the torque, but it still tries to twist the line.

Thanks 
Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser 
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:23:49 +0600
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Overheating Tip

Found out something that might help thoes with Oldses that run hot.  (which
is just about all of us :)  I had the AC evaporator out of my Vista Cruiser
saturday and could not believe all the stuff that had accumulated between
the evaporator and the radiator.  Leaves, grass, pine needles, oil container
caps, you name it.  I was also amazed at all the bug carcasses that had been
blown past the condenser and gotten lodged in the fins of the radiator.  I
took an airhose and blew it though the fins of the radiator, blowing from
the fan shroud side out through the front, so that the stuff in there
wouldn't get lodged deeper.  There was also a lot of dust in there.  After
the airhose I decided to blow the water hose though it to try and get even
more stuff out.  I also took some needlenose pliers and straightened out the
fins in the evaporator that have gotten bent over the years.  Wanted all the
airflow I could muster.

Since blowing out the the radiator fins the car runs a solid 10 degrees
cooler!  And get this, all that stuff had accumulated in just 3 years!  The
radiator was installed new in 1994.  Imagine the leaves and crap that would
accumulate if the radiator hadn't been removed for 10 years!  Especially if
you live in the woods like me.  Anywayz, it's worth unbolting the radiator
to have a look between the evaporator and condenser.

That might be common knowledge, but it was sure news to me.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:12:30 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: timing chain help please

>I was also told this motor was "non interference" and would NOT take out
>anything else if the timing chain/gear failed.
>
>I would appreciate any help on this before I spend money .
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>Jeff,
  It's true if the timing chain fails you won't damage valves like in some
of  the modern junk 4 cylinder motors,but considering the miles on your
motor,why
not go ahead and make the change?I work in the maintenence trade at a major
airline and believe me preventative maintenence is the only way to go.
Fred Kemp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:12:42 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: urgent help needed

 Is this a cool letter or what?


At 10:30 PM 8/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello Olds specialists, the German Oldsmobile Club will have a big meeting
>at August 30/31 in Mindelheim (Bavaria) to celebrate the centennial.
>The manager, Miss Evi Jackwerth of Munich just informed me that she has a
>1978 Supreme as first price of a tombola in favour of a childrens hospital.
>
>The problem is that someone stole a wheel disk from that car during
>transportation. I have the internet at hand and promised her to try to get
>one until then.....
>
>I have a 56 Olds and don´t know anything about 78 wheel disks. But she told
>me that the disks have a black rim and a black rocket emblem.
>
>Could it be that there is somebody out there with a surplus? I think that
>we could manage the deal in time.
>
>Gratefull for your help, Roland Klinger, Niederkassel, Germany
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 21:17:16 -0500
From: Tom & Jodie Martin <tmartin@genevaonline.com>
Subject: A couple Old Olds' Found

I was doing some rummaging around in an old junk yard today and found a 65 4dr
F-85, 225 V6, (did they really do that???) with some good sheet metal, very
stock looking and original looking engine, and a 63 or 64 (I think)
convertible Jetfire.  Couldn't get under the hood, but it looked like the
engine was still there.  Top is gone, so it is out in  the elements.  The
bodies are fair, but if you need body parts they may be a good source.  Some
damaged panels, but some good ones too.

Email me directly and I can tell you as much as I know.

Thomas Martin  
85 Cutlass Supreme 307 (soon to grow up) 

mailto:tmartin@genevaonline.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: wtd: 63 Dyn88 brake booster

Here's a guy looking for a 63 Dynamic 88 power brake booster...

Kevin Townsend, 517-371-1057 MI time 'til 11-11:59 pm or so. Or, call his dad
Everen @ 517-482-9340.

That's all I know for now. Don't know these guys, caution, etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:48:34 -0400
From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Subject: NOS Vent Window Handle For Sale (8/8)

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to sell:

NOS and in the box front door vent window handle.  Part number 4305053,
which fits the lefthand side on 1961 to 1965 F-85 and 1966-1967  3369,
3469, 3569, 3669, 3869, and VistaCruiser.  $7.00, including shipping to
any address in North America.  (8/8/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
this item, or if you would like additional information about it.  Thank
you.

          ===
+======= | | | =======================+
|        | | |   Tom Stoner           |
|        |/|\|   OCA #3943            |
|        | | |   Ann Arbor, Michigan  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu   |
+=====================================+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:44:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: James244@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds 442 Body Panels

Pete,
Sorry to hear your car was wrecked, If your car was in very good condition
and  you didn't have extinsive miles on your car........Don't settle with the
ins. co., they HAVE to settle with you.......you DON"T have to settle with
them. It may take a bit of time, but the longer you wait, the better off you
will come out on the deal. Gather info on comperable 85-86 442's to figure
out what a fair settlement price would be and wait them out. Sooner or later
they have to clear you off there system! I know a guy that had a 86 442 (64K
Miles) stolen and they tried to sttle with him for about $3800. He ended
getting $7200 because he was able to prove that to replace his car after the
loss would have cost him closer to $7500. Remember to gather info on cars in
the same condition as yours. I believe you will come alot better if your not
in a hurry to settle.

James
69 442
86 442 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:31:36 -0300
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Sparky Begs for Assistance!

Grettings form the dark side! Hope everyone is doing well! At least better than me at the 
moment anyway.

I have encountered a problem with my 66 Toro (the one that is going to Lansing.  
I really need some help/advice here. I'm out of ideas and about to give up.

The following are two posts from the Toro List. Sorry that it gets long, but you need the 
whole story for all the facts.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

All,

The Sparkmobile took a turn for the worse today.  ):

I put the old vacuum advance on which took care of all the pinging and restored power
(well most of it).

Remember that low-speed blubber I had the other day? It has turned into a flow blown
"miss" at low speeds now.

It only misses under a load (normal excelleration) and does it until I hit 35/40 mph or
so. It is a TERRIBLE miss! It's fairly consistant, but doesn't always happen (about 75%
of the time.  When I punch it at 40-60 mph, it downshifts ok and takes off off pretty
well, but it seems to be laying down a bit. It really doesn't get up and bark like it did
just a few days ago before this stuff started to happen.

Assuming it's ignition:

1. I replaced the coil and capacitor. The points/plugs/wires/distributor and rotor cap
are all new. (The coil and capacitor were used, but working when they came out).

Assuming it's fuel:

1. New fuel pump, in-line fuel filter. As far as the carb goes....I haven't touched it.
As far as accelerator pump goes...when you first start off the line, it doesn't have that
tale-tell blubber. It comes off the line smooth. It doesn't miss until about 5-10 mph.

Discussion:

It sure feels like electrics to me. Not sure what else I could check/replace. If it were
the fuel pump, wouldn't that show up all through the speed/rpm curve? If the points
somehow got out of whack, could that only effect low speed under load? I idles perfectly
and the engine razzes fine in neutral, but I put it in gear and load it, it runs like KA
KA until I'm going more than 35/40 mph! At highway speeds it runs like a bat out of hell.

Not to mention the A.I.R. system. I suppose it can't be ruled out either. It's just
confounding that it only happens at low speed intermittantly.

I'm really at a loss here. I wish I knew someone with an old Sun Machine. I prolly could
find out in minutes what the problem is.

Better this happens now than on the way to Lansing, but crap! I'm running out of time
here to work on it before we leave.

This is getting me nuts here!

===============================================================================


It just got worse!  ):  AARRGGGHHH!!!!! 

OK...here's the poop.

I put in NEW points/condenser/coil/coil wire/fuel filter. Dwell at 30, timing at 8.5.

AARRGGGGHHH! Runs worse than before! The miss has turned into a BOG now and does it
nearly all the time. Almost seems like a flat spot, but continuously. I get a nice
back-fire once in a while for good luck!

It still idles perfectly though! (: It razzes fine! Once in gear, at a standstill, it
runs fine too. Start going 10 MPH and it runs like a FORD!

I think I'm down to the carb now. Sounds like the metering rods are hosed or something.
Gas consumption has doubled! Went through a half a tank of gas in 60 miles!

I give up.......one more shot at it tomorrow. Get the carb rebuilt, yaddita yaddita....
If it don't run then, it's for sale and I rent a Buick and go to Florida instead of
Lansing.

):


Any ideas would be appreciated!

PS....I'm not on the Olds List so please reply to me privately or to the Toro List.

Thanks! I REALLY would appreciate any and ALL ideas here. I haven't much time to work on 
it before Lansing. If I can't get her going...I'm pretty much dead in the water.  ):

Sparky

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck fitting

On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Greg Pruett wrote:

> I can't get the expansion valve off of the evaporator of my Vista Crusier.

    If it's not leaking, then I'd probably leave it unless it needs to be
replaced.   I've had luck heating the joint a little, but beware you may
melt any rubber seals in it, if there are any.

   I just got done doing a condenseor in my father's 88 Cad (Olds 307
powered!) and the hot wrench was the only think which kept me from kinking
the line when I removed it.  I used heat only as a last resort - it was
heat or destroy line....

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

Date: 07 Aug 97 23:44:23 EDT
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: RE: tire size question

hhzimmerman wrote:
what size wheel?  If you're running a 14x6 wheel 

	I'm not worried about this now, if I can get stock chrome wheels they'll
be 14X7, if I go for aftermarket at least a 15x8 rim.  I think I have the 14X6
now but I'm not sure.  A friend gave them to me after my good set were stolen
last summer.  That's why I didn't even know what size I have on there now.  I
just had whatever average size/somewhat cheap tire would fit put on.  I did
check the size today, 195/75/14 (was I way off :)
 
Just remember, when it comes to tires, you get what you pay for,   

	I know this one already. I was thinking about either Bridgestone or
Firestone.  I seem to have good luck with these tires.


taxlady@sbccom.com wrote:
Do you mean widest, or tallest?  

	Actually I was looking for both.

Thanks for the help so far. If anyone else wants to, I'm still taking
suggestions for biggest tire fittable on a g-body with stock suspension.

Thanks again.
Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:47:25 -0400
From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Subject: Re: tire size question

On my 81 Cutlass Supreme I have 245/60/14 they fill the wheel well quite
nicely, however I have to be carefull of really tight  turns or the
fronts rub, no more donuts. hope this helps

Tim
81 Cutlass Supreme
80 MusHtang
80 Camaro

------------------------------

Date: 7 Aug 1997 20:43:52 PST
From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

OL>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:04:09 -0300 (ADT)
OL>From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
OL>Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

OL>On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
OL>> > 	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
OL>> > 	-lisa malden: 67
OL>> > 	-myself: 73
OL>> > 	-dan gulino: 75
OL>> > 	-john shelp: 77
OL>> > 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
OL>> > 	-steve ?: 85
OL>> > not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?


OL>Don't forget Chris Sparks '82, my '78, David Brown's '79 (?), Kevin
OL>O'Brien's '79 Diesel (or is that a 98?)... geez, I know I'm leaving
OL>someone out....

I own a '78 Delta, my mother owns a '90 Custom Cruiser (last year for
the 307 I believe and same for the "buisness look" no curves)

Mike Jones
'78 Delta 88 2dr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:59:55 -0500
From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump

Anyone have a fuel pump for a '63 olds 394.  Its the type with the glass
fuel bowl w/filter.  I just pulled into my garage thinking everything
was set for Lansing when the car stopped.  My mistake was putting a NOS
fuel pump on the car last Fall. The old diaphram must of given out -
should of installed rebuilt one.  Anyway with UPS strike and the fact
I'm leaving for Lansing next Sunday I'm pretty desperate.  Any help
appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:00:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: RED

Brad -

I think the paint code options for 1970 offered two kinds of red: Matador
Red, which is a somewhat dark red, and Rallye Red (a special option color)
was an orangy sort of red, close to what might be called "fire-engine red"
today.  It's a very sporty color.  You can get the numbers for these colors
from the Oldsmobile Restoration Guide.

Tom SImmons
71 SX

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:19:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: 455 rebuild/ What to use?

I'd like to find a good core 455 motor to put into my '68 Cutlass conv. My 
intent is to find a good core motor and do a full topline, balance and
blueprint but streetable motor that will run on pump gas,drive the A/C and
auto, and have enough vacumn so the power brakes work.
1. Which is the best 455 core for my needs?
2.Is the Toro motor with the steel crank worth looking for? Which years?
Which block and head codes do I want?
3.Any recs on compression ratio? I figure 9.5:1 is prob the max for today's
gas.
4.Are any headers avail for my convertible? Do I want them? or cast 442
manifolds?
5. Any suggestions on cam? As I said, I want enough vacumn to power the 
discs and I want a decent idle, but I also wouldn't mind enough tone to let 
others know I'm driving a "Rocket"

What do you think?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:33:35 -0700
From: markops@Traveller.COM
Subject: Re: Olds 442 Body Panels

James244@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Pete,
> Sorry to hear your car was wrecked, If your car was in very good condition
> and  you didn't have extinsive miles on your car........Don't settle with the
> ins. co., they HAVE to settle with you.......you DON"T have to settle with
> them. It may take a bit of time, but the longer you wait, the better off you
> will come out on the deal. Gather info on comperable 85-86 442's to figure
> out what a fair settlement price would be and wait them out. Sooner or later
> they have to clear you off there system! I know a guy that had a 86 442 (64K
> Miles) stolen and they tried to sttle with him for about $3800. He ended
> getting $7200 because he was able to prove that to replace his car after the
> loss would have cost him closer to $7500. Remember to gather info on cars in
> the same condition as yours. I believe you will come alot better if your not
> in a hurry to settle.
> 
> James
> 69 442
> 86 442

James, and everyone else who responded,
Thanks for all of your advice. Im in the process of gathing up
information now to prove my case to those slime(insurance claims). I
spoke with the slime this afternoon and she said my car is valued closer
to $2400 than what I was told before. You could imagine my discust ! Ill
keep you'all updated as to how hard I get screwwed. Again, thanks to
everyone who responded, its really appreciated. - Oh, hey by the way, do
you guys want to see a picture of  what happens to a nice clean and
detailed engine and compartment two weeks after your battery is
shattered in an accident ? 

Didnt think so. Sorry. Just trying to humor myself.
Pete M. ( 85 Olds 442 :(  / 71 chevelle malibu)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:57:26 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: getting 455, need help and basic specs

	This weekend I am supposed to pick up a 1976 Delta 88 455 for free from
some guy just to take it off his hands.  The car sat for a couple of years
and he says is drivable but needs a starter.  I looked for a starter at
local junk yards but could only come up with buick 455s.  Would this
starter fit?  Would any other starter fit from a more comon motor?	
	Also, I plan to pull this motor and rebuild it to put in my '81 Delta in
place of a 307.  Should I do the entire rebuild kit, or should I dissisembe
the engine and only replace the falty parts.  The '76 Delta has unknown
miles with the motor running good but burning a little bit of oil.  
	Any idea on what the stock horsepower for this motor was ('76 455) and
what kind of performance increase should I expect.  What if I upgrade from
stock 2.73 to 3.43 or 3.73 rear once the 455 is in place.  Are there any
simple ugrades (inexpensive) I could make at rebuild to increase the power
of this motor.  Any input welcome.  Thanks.

Igor Todorovic	
1981 Delta 88 307
1995 Intrepid 3.3
Calgary, Alberta

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:01:01 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: 1981 Delta engine swap from 307 to 455 help

Has anyone swaped a 455 into a 1981 Delta 88 in place of a 307?  How
difficult is it?  Is it possible at all?  What should I try to avoid?
The motor if from a 1976 Delta 88.  I also intend to swap a TH400 from the
same car into mine in place of a TH250.  Is this possible and again how
difficult.
What kind of a performance gain will I have?

Igor Todorovic	
1981 Delta 88 307
1995 Intrepid 3.3
Calgary, Alberta

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:06:54 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: 307

	I agree.  I have a 307 in my 1981 Delta 88 and just shy of 450,000 km, it
still is smooth and looks like it still has a long way to go.  Aside for my
gaskets needing immediate replacement, I've done no engine work since I got
it 6 yrs and 120,000 km.  Looks like soon I will get a 455, but belive it
or not, I will be sad to part from this motor.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 03:34:29 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Engine paint code

Craig J. Smith wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know the engine paint code for a '68 400 (bronze) or know
> where this info can be found.

I think Brother's Automotive has it.  There telephone number is 
1-800-442-PART.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:05:52 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: older digest replies

No I don't have the 68 codes, I got the information from NAPA. They 
have a book that list all the years. Check out one of their stores 
that sell paint and see if they can find the information in their old 
books.

Bobby
70 442 Escape Back to the....Past

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) [SMTP:sparks@nfs.aisf.com]
Sent:	Thursday, August 07, 1997 3:39 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	Re: older digest replies

Etzel, Bobby wrote:
>
> BTW the 1970 Corvette, and 1969 Chev. called paint code 53 (and 03)
> Daytona Yellow, the 1969 Pont. called it Goldenrod Yellow. They are
> the same as the Olds Sebring Yellow.
>
> I have a Martin Senour paint chart on my Web page at:
>
> http://home1.gte.net/betzel/BE.html
>
> for the GMC paint codes for 1970 that can be used to look up the
> codes.

Good information!  What about other years like 1968?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:22:35 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: RED

IMHO I would paint the car its original color. However, it should be 
your call. The red paint code's for the 70 year are:

73  Rally Red
74 Grenadier Red
75 Matador Red

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the....Past



- -----Original Message-----
From:	Brad Bowles [SMTP:wolds@napanet.net]
Sent:	Thursday, August 07, 1997 9:27 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	RED

Well, the car has been stripped and is ready to go into the paint
booth.  I would like to paint it red, but which red to paint it?  I
would like to paint it the stock color red, but the paint shop claims 
it
is like a red-blue, and it is really dark red.  They would like to see 
a
brighter, newer red.
	What color red have you guys painted your cars?  I will have the 
black
W-30 stripes too.
Thanks
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:40:22 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: Olds cars for sale

Here are more adds from Classifieds2000,

1961 Oldsmobile 88 Cruiser, 99K miles, $12,500, San Carlos, California
Day: (650) 568-8559  Eve: (650) 593-8274  
1970 Oldsmobile 442, $15,992, Dearborn, Michigan
Day: (313) 565-6000  
1960 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight, 120K miles, $14,500, Whitehall, Michigan
Day: (616) 894-7362  Eve: (616) 893-0455  Mail: rackerman@howmet.com
To view the complete ads, go to:
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?135890+06-AUG-97

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the....Past

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:59:10 -0400
From: Aaron S Janke <asjanke@mtu.edu>
Subject: Buffing

Hello 

I have been subscribed to the list for a little while now and have enjoyed
picking up little bits of information here and there, but up until this
point I really have not had any real questions.  I guess I will thrw my
question out there to give this a try.

here is the deal.  I recently painted my car with a two stage paint.
(yesterday)   The paint came out really well and has a real nice gloss to
it however being that I don't have a proper painting booth I got a little
dust and stuff in the paint.  I am sure that these can be buffed out but am
not really sure how to go about this without ruining the glossy finish.
can anybody give any suggestions on how to go about taking care of some of
these little imperfections?

thanks

- -- 
        .---.        .-----------  +-----------------------------------------+
       /     \  __  /    ------    | Aaron Janke       asjanke@mtu.edu       |
      / /     \(  )/    -----      |                                         |
     //////   ' \/ `   ---         |   CE major at Michigan Tech, Houghton   |
    //// / // :    : ---           |   cooltalk  asjanke@141.219.38.222      |
   // /   /  /`    '--             |                                         |
  //          //..\\               +-----------------------------------------+
=============UU====UU=========================================================
             '//||\\`     
               ''``   

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:15:05 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Acheiva W-41

I know this has been discussed before, but I did not pay attention at
the time. How rare are W-41 Acheivas?  I have seen one a few time while
on my way to work.  It is red and is definately a daily driver.
 
Thanks,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:40:26 -0500
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Subject: RE: 71 442 Altenator

From: "VanSant, David CWO" <DVanSant@lantd5.uscg.mil>

>From what I've seen of the '71 4-4-2, the most popular generator for
>this car was the 63 amp model.  One of the things you will need to do to
>confirm this is check the part number on the voltage regulator (on the
>firewall) and cross reference it against the assembly manual.  Then you
>will know for certain, which generator you will need.  Both the 37 amp
>and 63 amp models are readily available at major parts houses, either as
>an AC-Delco rebuild, or store rebuild.

Didnt the 442 have the alternator w/ the voltage regulator built in?  I know
my '70 is set up this way.  They even mention that in the 442 restoration
guide book.

- -Jeff

jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:58:20 -0500
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Subject: Re: 442 emblems

From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>

>I have a 70 442, and I need to know exactally where the 442 emblems go
>on the rear decklid (trunk).
>thanks

Good Luck.

When I bought my car, the trunk lid had been replaced and I got the 442
emblems in a bucket with some other spare parts.

The trunklid drill diagram is missing from the assembly manual, and just
about every car I see has them located differently (and a lot of them
are pretty crooked too).  I tried making a best guess template and
practiced on a few peices of wood.  I couldnt get the digits to align
perfectly so I scrapped the drilling method and bought some emblem
tape from a local body shop supply house and just taped them on.
No muss, no fuss, and perfect alignment too.

I centered the middle 4 with the split between the tail lights and
the digits are about 1.5" or so off the trunklid edge.  I actually used
a small peice of wood taped to the trunk as the "straight edge" and
just set the emblems on, one at a time.

Oh, if you do use the tape method, you have to cut the pins off the
backside.  My "bucket of parts" set was already that way.  I bought a
spare set when I thought I was going to drill the holes...

Let me know if you need more info and I can give you my exact
measurements, or you can see them in Lansing (if they dont fall
off on the way there :-)

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-speed
see the archvies at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:06:19 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum water pumps

>Otherwise, can anyone suggest a replacement source, or a source to stay
>away from?  Any reason to prefer a new one over a rebuild?

I have a rule of thumb for new vs. rebuilt: If the failure of a rebuilt
part will either immobilize the car or at least be a serious safety or
replacement problem, I buy new instead. So I'll buy new brake parts for
safety reasons and new water pumps due to the amount of time and effort
required to install them. (I even paint them to match first.)

OTOH, I buy rebuilt alternators and rebuilt blower motors because it's
pretty trivial to install them, and their failure isn't likely to leave
me on the side of the road.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:11:35 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine paint code

- ----------
> From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Engine paint code
> Date: Friday, August 08, 1997 6:34 AM
> 
> Craig J. Smith wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know the engine paint code for a '68 400 (bronze) or know
> > where this info can be found.
> 
> I think Brother's Automotive has it.  There telephone number is 
> 1-800-442-PART.
> 
> Chris Sparks


	YO also has the correct bronze paint.

				The General

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 07:21:29 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Sparky Begs for Assistance!

> It only misses under a load (normal excelleration) and does it until I hit 35/40 mph or
> so. It is a TERRIBLE miss! It's fairly consistant, but doesn't always happen (about 75%
> of the time.  When I punch it at 40-60 mph, it downshifts ok and takes off off pretty
> well, but it seems to be laying down a bit. It really doesn't get up and bark like it did
> just a few days ago before this stuff started to happen.

Is it missing on only a select cylinder or two, or the whole car?  Pull
a plug wire, drive it, and repeat with next wire.  If it does not get
any worse, then you found the cylinder to blame.  

If one cylinder is to blame, I'd ohm out that spark plug wire and verify
that that one plug is not fouled.  Then I'd move on to suspecting valve
train problems for that one cylinder.

If there's not a cylinder to blame, It would have to be the ignition
system or the carburetor.

Have you looked at the centrifugal advance on your distributor yet? 
I've seen ones rusted (frozen) in place, and I've seen ones with broken
springs (so advance comes on too soon).  Check that they move smooth.

> It sure feels like electrics to me. Not sure what else I could check/replace. If it were
> the fuel pump, wouldn't that show up all through the speed/rpm curve? If the points
> somehow got out of whack, could that only effect low speed under load? I idles perfectly
> and the engine razzes fine in neutral, but I put it in gear and load it, it runs like KA
> KA until I'm going more than 35/40 mph! At highway speeds it runs like a bat out of hell.
 
So it seems to me that the idle circuit works fine, and the secondaries
work fine.  This leaves something amiss with the primary venturies.  If
it only does this under load, I'd suspect the power piston.  Maybe it's
leaking, or the check ball is not working.

If it does it all the time until you get up on the secondaries, then I
can think of a few things it could be-- 

- -- Metering rods/jets goofed up, maybe just some dirt in 'em.
- -- Leaking well plugs.  If it starts okay after sitting for a few
minutes, this probably isn't it.
- -- Your float isn't.  If the fuel level is too high, it'll run very rich
and you'll have fuel spilling over into places it shouldn't be.  There
are some plastic "dipstick" type devices you can put in the vent to read
the float level without disassembling the carb, I got mine at NAPA for
about $10.
- -- An air bleed, check ball, or something in there is just dirty.

> Not to mention the A.I.R. system. I suppose it can't be ruled out either. It's just
> confounding that it only happens at low speed intermittantly.

I doubt this is it, the AIR system injects clean air AFTER combustion,
so I can't conceive how it could hurt.  I pulled the belt on the AIR on
my 307, and it runs just the same (except a little quieter without that
putt-putt motor under the hood).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:34:11 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: 442 Emblems

I will also be in Lansing with my mostly original (and it looks it) 70
4-4-2. My trunk emblems are original as is the trunk lid.  I would be
happy to remove them if you would want to take measurements of the
holes.  I will have a few tools along just in case something unforseen
happens.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:28:58 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing list

Hello,

I find that I must cancel my plans to Lansing.  My business partners are
into a coupole of deals that require that I get busy on this deal starting
Tuesday & who knows how long.  My JetFire isn't quite finished & now I will
have little time to get it in some shape.  Neither the turbo nor the
injector system is checked out as yet; but I did get the cam the other day.

Besides sending this post to complain of my plight, I was wondering if
someone might be able to pick up my Olds registration package so that I
might have a souveniere of the 100th anyway.  I would pay postage for the
shipping - don't use UPS quite yet.

Good luck to everyone in Lansing.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 07:39:44 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Celebrations

Hi all,

I just visited the Oldsmobile site and saw the schedule of festivities.
Boy am I envious of those who are going.  Makes me kind of sad that I
can't go.  Oh well I guess I'll go sob in the corner now.  No not
really! :-)

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:56:34 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: 442 emblems

>>I have a 70 442, and I need to know exactally where the 442 emblems go
>>on the rear decklid (trunk).

I suppose if you want accurate measurements you can wait to get to
Lansing, then find an original... OTOH:

>The trunklid drill diagram is missing from the assembly manual, and just
>about every car I see has them located differently (and a lot of them
>are pretty crooked too).

Assuming yours still has the pins on, I would try getting the number
alignment (i.e. the spacing between each number) straight by pressing
them into a piece of cardboard. As soon as you're happy with the
alignment, mark it up with a baseline so you can measure horizontal
level later, trace the letters with a pencil, remove them from the
cardboard, trim excess cardboard away, then use the holes as punched
in the cardboard for a template when drilling the trunklid. (Use the
cardboard template itself only for centerpunching the holes to drill;
if you think you can drill holes through the cardboard, don't.  :-)

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:42:24 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: A/F and oil questions...

 Don,

What is this talk about it getting hot in AL.  Ok, ok, it does get a little
warm in AL,

If yoiu are haveing trouble w/overheating at low speeds, consider checking
the fan for enough blades or the clutch being bad & looking at  the fan
shroud.  It should  be there & fit neatly around the fan.

Clutch fans that have an oily residue around the spring at the center are
losing silicone & don't lock up properly.  These need to be replaced as they
will cause the problem that you are experiencing.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: A/F and oil questions...



>Dave,
>
>Back when I drove my 69 350 4-bbl, 4-spd with a/c (and I mention this as
>a reference point) I could fill the radiator up to the top and it would
>lose, kickout or whatever about 2" down in the radiator core.  I never
>did figure out what caused it as I eventually quit driving it due to a
>trans problem.  The car would start to get hot in Alabama summer weather
>(really hot) with the air on in slow or stalled traffic.  If I drove it
>70+ mph it would cool down again (didn't like slow speeds).  Never knew
>why it did this.  Hopefully when I start restoring it next year, I will
>take care of this problem and all others that show up.
>
>Later,
>Don Sowers
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:33:00 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: My 4-4-2 story, (long)

I have been enjoying this Olds network for about a month now, and 
thought it was time to share how I recently found my dream car. 

Tried to keep it short, but failed!

At age sixteen I bought a 1972 Cutlass S, (paid $550.) and spent all my 
"two job dollars" making it into one of the best looking cars in my 
high school parking lot.  (I probably put about another $4,000. into it 
by the time it was done).  Candy apple red with a gold base, stock 
black interior which was mint, cragar wheels with knock-offs, 
mechanically it was like new (this my father insisted on)!  From that 
moment on, I've been in love with the 1971 - 72 Cutlass.  I sold that 
car in 1987, and have always hoped someday to get another (only a covt. 
in stock condition)!  

Almost ten years later, I decided to start seriously looking for a 1971 
or 72 Cutlass 4-4-2 convertible, (but didn't really try that hard).   
Knowing exactly what I wanted, the car had to be stock, with black 
interior, fully reconditioned and ready-to-drive, (not asking much 
huh?).  Exterior color didn’t matter, but red, black, or gold was on my 
wish list.  

One day while visiting my parents, (Friday, May 30th, 97'), I spotted 
my dads new issue of Hemmings Motor News still in the plastic.  Having 
not touched any auto sales magazines since September, I just thought I 
would look for the heck of it.  Nothing real exciting in the 1972 
column, but when I looked under 1971 this one ad caught my eye. It 
included: 

1)   442 convertible
2)   basically loaded, p/s, p/b, a/c, trunk release, cruise, tilt, W-25 
     option, auto trans, stock am/fm radio, rally pack, SS-I wheels  
3)   8-track
4)   Saturn gold
5)   Virginia car 
6)   good asking price.  

Then I saw "MI" after the phone number I thought, "Maybe i'll get lucky 
and this guy won't be that far away".  Plus, I wondered what the 
interior color was.  It had to be black, no exception.  Calling right 
away, the son answered and told me the interior was BLACK!  (about this 
time my heart rate shot up)  I ask what area they lived in, and it 
turned out to only be an hour-and-a-half from me!  I left a message for 
his dad to call me.  After hanging up, reality set in and I thought 
it's too good to be true, the car is probably screwed-up somehow.  
After calming myself down, I got a "take it or leave it" attitude.

The owner called back that night and we set-up a time to look at it, 
(Sunday, June 1st, 97').  He gave me the impression that the car was 
going to need alot of detail work.  He acted kind of "ho-hum" like the 
car was nothing to really get excited about.  This made me think that 
this hour-and-a-half trip was going to be a waste of time for sure.  

Finally Sunday came!!!  Within the first two minutes I saw it, I knew I 
would buy it!  My dad and I spent about two hours looking it over, top 
to bottom, checking the numbers and we found nothing!  It ran rough, 
but it needed a tune-up terribly.  

I just found the car I never expected to find!  If you could "beam" me 
back to 1971, this is the car I would order, and it was in #1 -#2 
condition!  Although his wife almost blew her stack, I got him to come 
down $1,000.!  I was the only one that called on the ad.  

That’s not all, it gets better...

With the car, came a 12" stack of paperwork, including receipts, a copy 
of a past title and the original dealer sales invoice!

The car was originally sold as a dealer demo and I am the eighth owner. 
On a whim I decided to try & find out more information about the car, 
so I tried to contact the VA dealer who sold it back in 1971.  The 
invoice had a phone number but no area code.  After looking up VA area 
codes, my second calling attempt was answered with "Stohlman 
Oldsmobile".  At that point I told the person I would like to speak 
with someone about a car they sold 26 years ago! (he thought I was 
joking at first)  After understanding my intention, the man was helpful 
and took my name and phone number and said he would pass the 
information along to Mr. Stohlman.  Five minutes passed and the phone 
rang, it was Mr. Stohlman of Stohlman Oldsmobile.  His first words to 
me were, "Before you ask me any of your questions I have a question for 
you".  "Is your car Saturn Gold?"  I replied, "Yes it is, why?"  He 
said, "Because I remember it".  "My mother drove that car when I was 
fourteen".  "It was a demo before my father sold it and was the only 
saturn gold cutlass we sold."  At first I thought the guy was pulling 
my leg but then he said, "you know, I have a picture of that car your 
going to want, it’s a picture of my dad’s dealership and your car is 
outside right next to the showroom".  He aired me the picture.  It's 
dated Oct. 1970, and it actually gave me goose bumps when I saw it!    

Well, that event got the ball rolling you could say.  That evening, I 
started looking through all that paperwork that came with the car and 
started taking notes.  To date I have spoken with all the past owners, 
except #2 and #4.  Many gave details about the previous owner(s), which 
was then clarified when I called "that" owner.  Some have even sent me 
pictures!  In fact, the original owner sent pictures of the car which 
were taking two months after he bought it.  They totally matched the 
the way it looked in the dealership picture Jim Stohlman sent me.
  
Since it was sold back in 1971, it’s had many owners.  It’s body was 
once painted burgundy, it’s top made white!?!  Then it was slowly 
brought back to it’s original stock appearance.  No rust, no bondo, no 
replaced fender panels.  It’s one well re-conditioned, solid car with 
an interesting history and I’m very proud and lucky to own it!  Two 
weeks after I bought it, I took it to the Olds Homecoming show in 
Lansing and won second place in my category.  The car was a VA car 
until 1990, then it went to MD, and finally came to MI in 1993. 

Thank you for your indulgence, I hope some of you enjoyed this story 
about my car.  See you in Lansing.  Two more weeks to go! 

Sincerely,

RC Hellebuyck (mrhell)
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:37:30 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: RE: Was your car built in Lansing?

Hey Mike, sorry my reply took so long.

Yes, my car was built in Lansing.  My vin # is:

344671R102526


Body tag reads:

ST 71    34467    LAN 202270
TR    970         53 B  pnt
      08D

(heads have a "G" casting)


Axle:  SS0238


I'm very pleased to say that all my numbers match! (except for the 
tranny, there's no tag and I can't find any numbers on it yet)

I will be in Lansing all day friday (22nd), and most of the day 
Saturday (23rd).  Let me know if your going, well hook up. 

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

___________________________________________________________________
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
>RC,
>
>Was your car built in Lansing?
>
>Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:24:28 -0700
From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: 442 Emblems

david wyatt wrote:
> 
> I will also be in Lansing with my mostly original (and it looks it) 70
> 4-4-2. My trunk emblems are original as is the trunk lid.  I would be
> happy to remove them if you would want to take measurements of the
> holes.  I will have a few tools along just in case something unforseen
> happens.
> 
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2


Well,
	I'm unable to go to lansing, so I'm just going to hold out for someone
to send me the measurements via e-mail.  Thanks for you help though.
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:24:39 -0400
From: Cliff McFarlane <mcfrlan@bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing list

> Hello, I'm just trying to update this list once again. 
>
> 
> Cliff McFarlane: 
> Fleet includes: 62 Starfire htp (parts)  
>                 62 98 (parts)
>                 62 Starfire conv (being restored for the last 9 years) >                 63 Starfire conv (going to make it into a trailer)
>                 63 Starfire coupe (going to restore when done 62)
>                 63 Starfire coupe (restored)
>                 63 Super 88 (parts)
>                 57 F*rd Fairlane 500 conv (restord (sorry guys))
________________________________________________________________________
>     NAME                 HOTEL               DATE           CAR
>     ====                 =====               ====           ===
> Adams, Tom           Kellogg Center       8/21-24   66 Delta conv
> Allen, Joseph        Cottenwood CG        8/20-24   57 88 J/2 conv
> Beaulieu, Greg       Hampton Inn          8/18-23   none
> Bicker, Steve        Quailty Suites       8/19-24   67 442
> Blankenship, Mike    Red Roof Inn         8/20-24   none
> Bradley, Terry&Barb  Regent Inn           8/20-24   71 Cutlass 70 W-30
> Brown, David         Best Western-Midway  8/19-24   77 Delta 88
> Chermack, Jim        Marriot East         8/18-25   67 442 W-30
> Cornea, Mark         Clubhouse Inn        8/19-24   70 442 W-30
> Cremean, Matt        Blissfiend, MI       8/21      73 Cutlass Supreme
> Easton, Jeff         Fairfield Okemos     8/20-22   70 442
> Forsee, Ron          Hampton Inn          8/20-24   65 442
> Glista, Nikki        Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   68 Cutlass conv
> Glista, Richard      Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   68 442
> Gulino, Dan          Sleep Inn            8/20-24   75 Delta 88 conv
> Hall, Mike           Holiday Inn West     8/21-24   72 Cutlass S
> Handren, Bob&Cheryl  Cottenwood CG        8/20-24   67 442 W-30
> Harkema, Doug        Holt, MI             all       70 Supreme conv
> Hartlieb, Paul       Marriot East         8/19-23   67 98
> Hendley, Daren       Ramada               8/20-24   none
> Hirtle, Don          Hampton              8/18-23   none
> Hoopingarner, Kevin  Cottonwood CG        8/19-24   none
> Horton, Everett      Sheraton             8/19-23   61 Starfire conv
> Horton, Gordon       Sheraton             8/19-23   71 Supreme conv
> Johnson, Ernie       Ramada               8/20-24   67 442
> Kitchner, Doug       Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   70 Supreme conv
> Kobinsky, Jeff&Patti Days Inn             8/20-22   86 98
> Lamb, Aaron          Clubhouse Inn        8/20-23   72 Cutlass
> Loban, John          Clubhouse Inn        8/20-24   63 Starfire conv
> McFarlane, Cliff     Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   63 Starfire
> Melen, Ulyess        Clubhouse Inn        8/20-23   71 Cutlass S
> Nicholson, Brad      Best Western         8/19-24   94 LSS
> O'Connor, Peg        Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   none
> Penny, Steve         Hampton              8/18-23   none
> Prince, Mark         Clubhouse Inn        8/19-24   72 442 W-30
> Prince, Michael      Clubhouse Inn        8/20-23   70 Cutlass S
> Pritchett, Bill      Radisson             8/20-23   61 98
> Richmond, John       FairField Inn West   8/22-23   72 442
> Roberts, Rick        Clubhouse Inn        8/22      72 H/O
> Ruper, Chris         Best Western-Midway  8/19-24   none
> Senko, Drew          Sheraton             8/20-23   71 Supreme conv
> Schinkel, Rob        Red Roof Inn         8/21-22   none
> Smetana, Chris       BW Govenors          8/20-24   possibly a 72 S
> Smith, Brian         Hampton              8/18-23   none
> Smith, Bryce         Days Inn             8/18-23   none
> Soball, Dave         Motel 6 Central      8/20-24   55 98
> Stewart, Sandy       Hampton              8/18-23   none
> Thomas, Robert       Clubhoue Inn         8/22      69 442 W-32
> Westlake, Steve      Holiday Inn West     8/19-24   63 98
> Williams, Dan        Hampton Inn          8/20-24   68 442 conv
> Williams, Danny      Red Roof Inn         8/20-24   none
> Wilson, Jim          none                 8/19-24   64 Starfire
> Wyatt, Dave          BW Govenors          8/20-24   70 442
>_______________________________________________________________________> LIST TOTAL = 53 People

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:27:14 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: My 4-4-2 story, (long)

Hi RC Hellebuyck (mrhell),

What a great story!  Your flair in writing this story really moved me.
I wish I could find a buy like that.  I am currently working on getting
a 71 Cutlass convertible.  We'll see.

Later...

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:44:44 -0700
From: Erik Nowacki <enowacki@titan.com>
Subject: Re: 455 rebuild/ What to use?

First you need to check out the FAQ at Bryceman's Olds page at www.442.com


>1. Which is the best 455 core for my needs?

There was some discussion on this group earlier as to which blocks to use.
I believe the consensus was that the earlier blocks, marked F00 to F4 had a
higher nickel content and therefore are stronger.  Please, someone correct
me if I am off by a number or two.  

>2.Is the Toro motor with the steel crank worth looking for? Which years?

There was a rumor that all 68 and 69 Toro's had nodular cranks, this is
apparently not true, but the nodular cranks are out there.  The steel
cranks are virtually impossible to find.   Some steel cranks have been
found in 68 2bbl Deltas, but they are so rare that I wouldn't spend much
time looking for one.  As for the nodular cranks, if you can't find one,
there are usually a couple for sale in the classifieds on Bryceman's page.

>Which block and head codes do I want?

Are you going to bore the block, or are you going to leave it stock?  Some
of the late smogger 455s were incapable of being bored beyond 45 over due
to thin walls.  As for heads, my research showed that the C heads are
readily available and flow reasonably well.  There are other heads with
smaller chambers and better flow, but they are much harder to come by.
Check the FAQ for a full discussion of this topic.

>3.Any recs on compression ratio? I figure 9.5:1 is prob the max for today's
>gas.

I am having a 455 built for my VC.  I am shooting for a 9.5 compression.  I
will let you know how it works as soon as I get the engine in the car.

>4.Are any headers avail for my convertible? Do I want them? or cast 442
>manifolds?

I posted a question about headers for my VC and the general consensus was
that it is not worth it.  Too much trouble to install, apparently they
never fit perfectly the first time, and they also had the side effect of
cooking the starter every now and then.  I have a dual exhaust with the
stock manifolds and some Flowtech Terminator mufflers which is enough for
the street.  For the strip, the additional performance you get from headers
might be worth it.  Again, this issue depends on how you intend to use the
car.

>5. Any suggestions on cam? As I said, I want enough vacumn to power the 
>discs and I want a decent idle, but I also wouldn't mind enough tone to let 
>others know I'm driving a "Rocket"

You need to order Joe Mondello's catalog, he has a whole bunch of cams.  I
just received my JM 20-22 in the mail (since UPS is on strike).  I will
post my comments to the group as soon as I get the engine completed and put
in the car.
>
>What do you think?

I think a 455 sounds like the way to go.  Also, remember that there are
some items that are specific to the 455 in the Cutlass, such as valve
covers (to clear AC and brake booster), motor mounts and frame mounts.

Erik Nowacki
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:53:29 -0700
From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Why did it fry? (long)

Those of you who've been around awhile may remember my recent (7 months?)
rewire of my 66 98. Well, it ran great until last Saturday when some
circuit hooked to the battery got grounded and fried many wires in front of
the firewall.

What's weird is that turning off the car didn't stop current flow: either
an unswitched circuit fried or enough was melted by the time I shut it down
that the switched circuits had _become_ unswitched,as a result of their
electro-mating with other wires...

I disconnected the battery before anything caught fire... Happily no
permanent damage this time, but it sure made me nervous. As I get into the
reconstruction with a _different_ harness, I'm hoping to isolate the
problem and eliminate it.

Some detail. Olds harness with and HEI distributor to which I'd run a 10ga.
wire replacing the resistor wire originally supplied for the points
distributor. The alternator is internally regulated with the (I think)
correct changes to the harness where the regulator used to be.

The only recent wiring changes were that I removed the yellow wire to the
starter (HEI distributor) and hooked up the accessory circuit for the
cruise unit. Cruise was not part of this problem, it's harness was
perfecto, no melting at all. And I believe it's hooked into a fusible lead.

More detail. There is an amps gauge (not damaged) which sits between the
accessory leads into the cabin and the junction block. It helps me monitor
the draw when accessories are on. It was my initial suspect, but it was
clean as a whistle.

The ignition wire was not melted as badly as the heavy alternator wire, so
the heavy alt. lead is my primary suspect. When I put in the limo
alternator years ago, I put in a parallel 6 or 8 ga. wire between the
junction block and alternator, it has worked well for years, but is this
parallel output a bad idea?

Questions:
1) What could cause the alternator heavy lead to melt?
2) Could the removal of the yellow wire to the starter have contributed?
3) Have any of you had this problem?
4) Are there protections I can put in place between the battery and the
rest of the harness in case of trouble like switches?
5) With the extra-beefy alternator, is it a good idea to run 10 or 8 ga. wire
and replace the factory solution, instead of the parallel line?

Lesson for the day is always carry a fire extinguisher in your old Olds.

Thanks for your time in advance. Still learning (duh...)

cf

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:32:32 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Why did it fry? (long)

Christian Fair wrote:
> 
> Those of you who've been around awhile may remember my recent (7 months?)
> rewire of my 66 98. Well, it ran great until last Saturday when some
> circuit hooked to the battery got grounded and fried many wires in front of
> the firewall.

Maybe we need to give you the nickname of "Sparky" instead of Greg. :-)

Chris Sparks (And no I don't want the name of Sparky)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:36:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: DGMCEWEN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Acheiva W-41

1192 made in '92, 500 made in '93.  Doug

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:33:07 -0400
From: hhzimmerman <hhzimmerman@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: tire size question

Oh, on a 14x7 (that's what I have) the biggest you can get is 225-70-14, I run Goodyear Eagle ST's and have 
had great luck with them.  When I get aftermarket tires I'd use 15x7 or 8 in the front and run something 
around a 235/245 60R15 and in the rear a 15x8 and 255x60R15- 
- -greg

> 
> hhzimmerman wrote:
> what size wheel?  If you're running a 14x6 wheel
> 
>         I'm not worried about this now, if I can get stock chrome wheels they'll
> be 14X7, if I go for aftermarket at least a 15x8 rim.  I think I have the 14X6
> now but I'm not sure.  A friend gave them to me after my good set were stolen
> last summer.  That's why I didn't even know what size I have on there now.  I
> just had whatever average size/somewhat cheap tire would fit put on.  I did
> check the size today, 195/75/14 (was I way off :)
> 
> Just remember, when it comes to tires, you get what you pay for,
> 
>         I know this one already. I was thinking about either Bridgestone or
> Firestone.  I seem to have good luck with these tires.
> 
> taxlady@sbccom.com wrote:
> Do you mean widest, or tallest?
> 
>         Actually I was looking for both.
> 
> Thanks for the help so far. If anyone else wants to, I'm still taking
> suggestions for biggest tire fittable on a g-body with stock suspension.
> 
> Thanks again.
> Bill Reilly
> '85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:58:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds 442 Body Panels

In a message dated 97-08-08 04:33:40 EDT, you write:

<< James, and everyone else who responded,
 Thanks for all of your advice. Im in the process of gathing up
 information now to prove my case to those slime(insurance claims). I
 spoke with the slime this afternoon and she said my car is valued closer
 to $2400 than what I was told before. You could imagine my discust ! Ill
 keep you'all updated as to how hard I get screwwed. Again, thanks to
 everyone who responded, its really appreciated. - Oh, hey by the way, do
 you guys want to see a picture of  what happens to a nice clean and
 detailed engine and compartment two weeks after your battery is
 shattered in an accident ? 
 
 Didnt think so. Sorry. Just trying to humor myself.
 Pete M. ( 85 Olds 442 :(  / 71 chevelle malibu)
  >>

Gee, what if a 1/2 dozen of us stuck ads in the Auto Trader for 85
 442s anywhere from $7500 to 10-11 Thousand and then you could 
print them out and use them for sources.. And then by chance "if" 
we got calls on these "cars" we could all just say that they are 
sold. "Yep. 160K miles and sold 1st day for 10-5, what insurance 
company did you say you were from again???"    LOL...TIM
from any

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:02:25 -0400
From: "Paul L. Fikaris" <fikaris@en.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

Count me in as a memeber of the silent Delta-lovers minority!

Paul Fikaris
fikaris@en.com
69 Delta 88 Conv 455

- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price
> Date: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 3:04 PM
> 
> On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
> > > 	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
> > > 	-lisa malden: 67
> > > 	-myself: 73
> > > 	-dan gulino: 75
> > > 	-john shelp: 77
> > > 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
> > > 	-steve ?: 85
> > > not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?
> 
> 
> Don't forget Chris Sparks '82, my '78, David Brown's '79 (?), Kevin 
> O'Brien's '79 Diesel (or is that a 98?)... geez, I know I'm leaving 
> someone out....
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #790
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