
oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, August 6 1997      Volume 01 : Number 787



Re: A few more questions
Olds Night at the Drags
Re: Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)
Re: Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)
Re: a to f conversion
Speed Alert Speedo Question
Re: Fender Bracket
Re: 403 swap)
Info on the "hi" Spammer (Was Re: hi)
Another Weekend's Adventures
Re: Is this dealer still open
Re: Fender Bracket
A gift from my wife
Re: Value of car
UNBOUNCE: Detective Andy ("Squeegie") Green's Report
Re: '64 Vista Cruiser scripts
Re: J heads
62 Dynamic 88, convertable
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: 1973 Olds Cutlass Supreme
Re: Value of car
Re: Value of car
Re: Value of car
Re: Value of car
Re: Value of car
71 442 Altenator
71 442 Altenator
Re: 70' Rear Bumper
1964-65 442/Cutlass/F-85 responses to date...
Re: Is this dealer still open
Re: A few more questions
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: f-body disc brakes on my 67 f-85
Re: J heads
Re: A/F and oil questions...
Re: A few more questions
Re: Delta 88's
Re: Popular Mechanics Shoot-Out
Re: Value of car
Replated bumpers (Cutlass)
parts for sale
Re: Value of car

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 02:06:31 -0400
From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: A few more questions

>     This weekend I'm planning on purchasing a rebuilt 455 long block for
> my '69 Cutlass (originally a 350).  I've got a few things I need to
> clear up before I haul off and do it, though.
> 
>     1.)  I have a four core radiator.  Will this be enough to cool that
> monster?

Yes, make sure it's clean inside and out.

>     2.)  I've heard that the original 350 mounts could be used.  Are
> they acutally the same, or do they change the drive train geometries?

Not by very much.  Not enough to hurt anything.  Heck, you probably won't
even notice.
 
>     3.)  I'm going to hold out for C Code heads, but they will not come
> with rocker arms, etc.  Does anyone know a manufacturer who makes a good
> roller rocker valve train for this engine?  And how much does it cost?
> 

Crane may and I think Crower makes something for the Olds.  Not cheap
though by any means.

>     4.)  My plan is to buy a junk late 70's 455 (in semi-reasonable
> condition) steal it's sheet iron and intake, etc. and use it for a core.
> 
Just make sure it's not from a W-30!!!

>     5.) Has anyone tried the Hooker Headers on a car like this?  I'm
> going to pick up a 3" exhaust from T/A Performance, and this exhaust
> setup will bolt right up to the Hookers (which are about $160 out of
> PAW).
>

Hookers are on my 71 442 with 455 right now with 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust. 
Headers are a great fit. The frames are identical, so there should be no
problems.

 
>     6.)  Will the distributor from the 350 work with the 455, or do I
> need to look into getting one of those, too?
> 
It will work physically, but you may want to get a performance type.  Come
to think of it, I do have a 69 W-30 distributor, #1111933 I'm not using
right now.....


>     7.)  Same for the water pump...and will it pump enough to cool that
> badboy?

The water pumps are virtually identical for all the 60-70's 350 and 455's. 
Again, with proper cooling system maintenance, it should be fine.  Expect
the 455 to run a little warmer than the 350.  For some reason they always
have displayed that tendancy.

Another tip I recommend, is get a Tilton, or CSI mini-starter for this
set-up. (Or at least the Heavy Duty High Torque stock starter)  It will far
and away provide more room for the headers, and help avoid those notorious
455 "hot start problems".

Good Luck,

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 02:55:20 -0400
From: jprand@juno.com (James P Rand)
Subject: Olds Night at the Drags

	I've been told that Sat. August 16th  is Oldsmobile  Night at New
England Dragway in Epping, NH. Can anyone tell me what time the gates
open/racing starts or any other info I might be interested in or need
concerning this night or the dragway? I already have directions, but I
have never previously been. I appreciate everyone's time and I thank you
for your help.

Jim Rand
jprand@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:41:01 +0000
From: "Jay Honeycutt" <jay@buseng.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)

BTW, do you have initials "JH" or even "JWH"?

Jay H



> Date:          Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:58:45 -0400
> From:          "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
> Subject:       Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)
> To:            oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Reply-to:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

> I have the following Oldsmobile related items which I would like to
> sell:
> 
> NOS and in the original box Oldsmobile Rocket Circle Emblem.  Part
> number 983421.  I1ve been told by someone who probably knows correctly,
> that this accessory was used by dealers in the 19501s as an incentive
> for repeat customers.  The 3-3/8 inch wide by 1 inch tall diecast emblem
> fastens to the top of the dashboard with a single screw, which is
> included.  This probably was designed to replace a trim screw on some
> years, or could be fastened by drilling a hole (yikes!) into the dash.
> The screw is then hidden by a brass trim oval which was to be held in
> place with double sticky tape.  An oval of tape is included, but is
> undoubtedly unusable at this age.
> 
> The emblem is chrome plated with a black painted field.  The cast in
> 3Rocket Circle² lettering is also painted black.  At the right side,
> within that black field is a stylized rocket.  The brass trim oval looks
> like a loop of exhaust from the rear of the rocket.  At the left side of
> the field is a space intended to contain a numeral, representing the
> number of Oldsmobiles which you have owned.  The center of the brass
> trim oval is also painted black and is intended to contain your three
> initials.  The brass oval on these is oxidized from age, and needs to be
> polished.  $13.00, including one numeral and the three initials of your
> choice.  Shipping to any address in North America is also included.  I
> have a few of these to sell, and initially a good supply of numerals and
> initials.  (7/29/97)
> 
> Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
> one (or more) of these, or if you would like additional information
> about them.  I can confirm that your choice of numeral and initials are
> still available, and will gladly hold them for your order.  Thank you.
> 
>           ===
> +======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
> |        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
> |        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
> |        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
> |         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
> +==================================================+
> 
> 
> 
_|_|_|_| Jay Honeycutt
_|_|_|_| Business Engineering
_|_|_|_| jay@buseng.com (primary)
_|_|_|_| j_h@alum.mit.edu (alternate)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:41:01 +0000
From: "Jay Honeycutt" <jay@buseng.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)

Would like to buy one, Mr. Stoner.  I bought the Olds jacket/cap from 
you a while back and think this could complete the ensemble.

Will put check in the mail tomorrow.

Jay Honeycutt



> Date:          Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:58:45 -0400
> From:          "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
> Subject:       Rocket Circle Emblems For Sale (7/29)
> To:            oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Reply-to:      oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

> I have the following Oldsmobile related items which I would like to
> sell:
> 
> NOS and in the original box Oldsmobile Rocket Circle Emblem.  Part
> number 983421.  I1ve been told by someone who probably knows correctly,
> that this accessory was used by dealers in the 19501s as an incentive
> for repeat customers.  The 3-3/8 inch wide by 1 inch tall diecast emblem
> fastens to the top of the dashboard with a single screw, which is
> included.  This probably was designed to replace a trim screw on some
> years, or could be fastened by drilling a hole (yikes!) into the dash.
> The screw is then hidden by a brass trim oval which was to be held in
> place with double sticky tape.  An oval of tape is included, but is
> undoubtedly unusable at this age.
> 
> The emblem is chrome plated with a black painted field.  The cast in
> 3Rocket Circle² lettering is also painted black.  At the right side,
> within that black field is a stylized rocket.  The brass trim oval looks
> like a loop of exhaust from the rear of the rocket.  At the left side of
> the field is a space intended to contain a numeral, representing the
> number of Oldsmobiles which you have owned.  The center of the brass
> trim oval is also painted black and is intended to contain your three
> initials.  The brass oval on these is oxidized from age, and needs to be
> polished.  $13.00, including one numeral and the three initials of your
> choice.  Shipping to any address in North America is also included.  I
> have a few of these to sell, and initially a good supply of numerals and
> initials.  (7/29/97)
> 
> Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
> one (or more) of these, or if you would like additional information
> about them.  I can confirm that your choice of numeral and initials are
> still available, and will gladly hold them for your order.  Thank you.
> 
>           ===
> +======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
> |        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
> |        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
> |        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
> |         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
> +==================================================+
> 
> 
> 
_|_|_|_| Jay Honeycutt
_|_|_|_| Business Engineering
_|_|_|_| jay@buseng.com (primary)
_|_|_|_| j_h@alum.mit.edu (alternate)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 04:37:52 -0500
From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Subject: Re: a to f conversion

At 01:21 AM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Floyd,
>	I did the same on my 67' ragtop. I had a problem with not enough shock
>throw. As soon as the car was put on a lift, all off the spring weight tore
>the shocks
>clean out due to the longer spindles. I have to run shocks designed for a
>import
>4 X 4. I found these shocks by looking up static and compressed lengths in
>the
>back of the shock catalog at my local parts store. Did(do) you have this
>problem.
>
>				???????????	
>				The General
>

I really don't know yet. I'm having a heck of a time finding a good pass
side spindle. Driver side has a std shock in it now. I'd like to know the
particulars just in case. I'm doing a major o/h that keeps getting more
major as it progresses. Yesterday's bad news was a cracked seat in intake
valve area. It looks minor,but who knows. Know anyone with some spare "A" heads?

Jim Smith
65 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:07:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Speed Alert Speedo Question

My buddy Brian is considering the purchase of a speed alert speedo for his
'71 SX, the kind where you set a pointer on the speedo to a particular
speed and it buzzes when you exceed it. Before he does, he asked me to ask
some questions to the parts gurus on here, so Messrs. Chermack, Horton and
Witt, among others, may want to respond: 

1. He checked all his manuals and none show this as offered for '71. The 
seller swears it is out of a '71, though. Anyone ever see one in that 
model? The high beam indicator is red like a '70, not blue like in a '71, 
so he suspects it is actually a '70.

2. What is the going rate for these things on the market today?

3. The hair spring/speedo needle assembly on this one seems out of 
kilter. Anyone ever see these offered as replacement parts? Or better 
yet, have one for sale? He can't find one in the parts books.

Yes, he *is* a bit of a fanatic... ;-)

Thanks in advance.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:11:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Panman638@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fender Bracket

How bad has the UPS strike effected you guys? It has me at a stand still.No
engine paint and no pit wheel housing. A  break in the work not wanted or
needed!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:42:14 -0500
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: 403 swap)

my experience is that any Olds motor 70 - 81 for sure will fit in any
Cutlass 70- 81. The only thing a person has to be aware of is the front
springs and the tranny. There may be some clearance problems with the
tranny and the "hump"
On Mon, 04 Aug 1997 12:54:26 -0500 Matt Cremean
<ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu> writes:
>Shang wrote:
>> 
>>     Thanks for responding. So do all or most of the post-73 blocks 
>have
>> the holes for the center style motor mounts?
>
>Huh? Post 73? Not "including 73"? I want to know if I can slap a 69 
>350
>into my 73. This will work right?
>
>-- 
>**********************************
>Matt Cremean
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>CreamerSoftİ Software
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
>**********************************
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:21:19 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Info on the "hi" Spammer (Was Re: hi)

The following spam makes use of forged headers in an effort to
disguise its source. The actual sender is identified below. The
Hotmail domain is completely fictitious and no Hotmail account
was used in this spam.

AAAA.NET: You need to secure your mailserver from third-party
relaying of junk email, in this case from IP address 207.41.8.12.

INCT.NET: You have a user at 208.10.116.223 who is forging the
headers of their junk email to direct complaints to Hotmail.com.
The phone number advertised below traces back to Jackson Builders,
310 E State Road 135, Morgantown, IN  46160-9735.

>Return-Path: <oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Received: from chigate.dlogics.com by dlogics (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>	id AA19533; Tue, 5 Aug 97 03:10:47 CDT
>Received: by chigate.dlogics.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
>	id DAA17180; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:10:46 -0500
>Received: from chebucto.ns.ca(129.173.4.200) by chigate via smap (V1.3)
>	id sma017177; Tue Aug  5 03:10:06 1997
>Received: by chebucto.ns.ca id <93388-3899>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:05:49 -0300
>Received: from root@athena.aaaa.net (port 1279 [207.41.8.12]) by
chebucto.ns.ca with ESMTP id <93392-3895>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:04:47 -0300
>Received: from hotmail.com (pm1m4.inct.net [208.10.116.223])
>	by athena.aaaa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA06507;
>	Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
>Date: 	Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
>From: doogus@hotmail.com
>Message-Id: <199708050743.DAA06507@athena.aaaa.net>
>To: doogus@hotmail.com
>Subject: hi
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>If you're using email to promote your business on the Internet,
>
>you need up-to-date addresses.
>
>While supply lasts, our 25,000,000 address CD-ROM is on
>
>sale for only $199.00.
>
>Call 1-812-597-1000 to order.


Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:57:43 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Another Weekend's Adventures

Well, another trip back to Havre been and gone.  Nothing went acc'd to
plans, so I didn't end up bringing back the car I'd planned to pick up. 
(Some of you ~already~ know where this is going, I'm sure!)  I spent the
night at a friend's house, (who happens to be moving also) and he asked
be the million dollar question.  He has no parking space at his new
house, so I was somehow talked into buying one of his cars.  (Ya know,
he twisted my arm, honest!)  I'm now the proud owner of an '83 Turbo
Regal, and it looks great sitting next to the rest of the fleet.  It's
rough, but complete (minus the tranny).  Don't know anything about
engine's condition, but turbo's still there, anyway.  No T-tops, and no
straight body panels, but it still looks really hot.  (It kinda looks
like it was parked in a baseball park for a while.  I think somebody's
neighborhood kids took great pride in smashing out every light and half
of the dash plastic pieces.  (I'd hope they were brutally punished, but
I've got the feeling nobody even cared)  It's a shame what some will let
happen to their cars. 

 	It's got Grand National badges on it, but being an '83, I don't know
that they had a seperate designation between the GN and Turbo Regal. 
Regardless, there was only 3700 or so made, so I think I've got a fairly
valuable item sitting here.  45 minutes after I loaded it on the trailer
and wrote out the check, I turned down an offer for nearly five times
what I paid for it, so I can't have done too bad.  Two hours later, I
had a guy ask me what my version of a song was (ya know, the saying "I
got it for a song..."  He threw out a guess that was twice the previous
offer, and he knew quite a bit about these cars so I guessed I did
pretty good.  

	Oh, everyone's probably wonderring?  OK, I paid $125 for it!  :)  How
can you turn ~that~ down???  


Charley Buehner
buehner@lyrea.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 03:23:23 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Is this dealer still open

Hi Lisa,
> 
> I've only seen the phone number, don't think they're on line yet.
> 
> What was the dealer number for that dealer?  I have a dealer number
> i want to inquire about - when I call them (some day) i can ask about
> yours also.

All I know is that the dealer's name was Romel and was out of Redondo
Beach, CA.

Chris Sparks
68 442 SC (Romelite)
68 442 HT
82 DRB (Browningite)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 03:28:44 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Fender Bracket

Panman638@aol.com wrote:
> 
> How bad has the UPS strike effected you guys? It has me at a stand still.No
> engine paint and no pit wheel housing. A  break in the work not wanted or
> needed!

It has affected me too.  I am awaiting window fuzzies W/S and a solenoid
heat shield.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:47:43 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: A gift from my wife

Yesterday my wife gave me a special gift.  She had been to town and
stopped by the local Olds dealer.  While she was there she made an
inquiry about something I had seen and wanted.  They gave her this item
and she gave it to me.  It is one of the large 100th aniversary banners
with the Curved Dash, Toro, and two newer models.  They had it tied to a
fence along the highway and were going to throw it away.  It is in good
shape and just needs a little washing to be like new again.  It will
look great hanging in the house when I get our den done.

Dave(who found the perfect woman)Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:17:32 -0400
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Value of car

At 01:05 PM 8/4/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I just wanted to know how much a classic car depreciates when the frame
>gets bent and is restraightened?  In my particular case, the rear
>portion of my frame got bent as a result of the accident.  I want some
>ammo to present to the insurance company stating that my car was in 
>perfect body shape (no accidents) prior to the accident.  Now I can't
>claim that its body is perfect because of the accident.  I want to tell
>them that as part of the settlement, they need to add in depreciation
>of my vehicle.  Any help on this one?
>
>
>Chris Sparks

Chris,

In my opinion, you're dreamin'!  :)

No insurance company is going to pay you for something as nebulous as the
loss of value to a car because the frame was once bent.  If it's been bent
back and the car looks like it did before the accident, that's all they're
concerned about.  I would be very surprised if there is any documentation
or precedence you could point to where someone actually established a
method for determining a loss in value because of a once-bent frame.

So what exactly do you want the insurance company to do?  You're claiming
that the car was worth, say, $10,000 before the accident and now, because
it has been in an accident (even though it's been repaired to the point
that it _looks_ and _performs_ just as it did before the accident), it's
value is, you claim, say, $6,000, you want them to pay you $4,000 for the
loss in value _in addition_ what they already paid to have the car fixed?
Wow.  If you can get them to do it, please let us know the name of the
insurance company!


Dan



**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:17:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Detective Andy ("Squeegie") Green's Report

This bounced due to header line problems, but it is full of great gumshoe 
work from Det. Green, regarding the spammer yesterday. 

Just for everyone's info, I'm now working on making the Olds list closed, so
that only list members can post. I know we discussed this awhile back and
there were opinions both pro and con, but it seems that there is an epidemic
of this sort of stuff right now and I want to protect the list from abuse. If
the net community can ever control this behavior, then we can always revert
back. I'm not sure exactly how long doing this will take, or even if it can
be practically done with the version of majordomo that Chebucto uses, but
I've started the process. 

Email me privately if you have any concerns, questions, or can offer any 
help. Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:	Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:21:19 -0500
From:	"Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Info on the "hi" Spammer (Was Re: hi)

The following spam makes use of forged headers in an effort to
disguise its source. The actual sender is identified below. The
Hotmail domain is completely fictitious and no Hotmail account
was used in this spam.

AAAA.NET: You need to secure your mailserver from third-party
relaying of junk email, in this case from IP address 207.41.8.12.

INCT.NET: You have a user at 208.10.116.223 who is forging the
headers of their junk email to direct complaints to Hotmail.com.
The phone number advertised below traces back to Jackson Builders,
310 E State Road 135, Morgantown, IN  46160-9735.

>Return-Path: <oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Received: from chigate.dlogics.com by dlogics (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>	id AA19533; Tue, 5 Aug 97 03:10:47 CDT
>Received: by chigate.dlogics.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
>	id DAA17180; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:10:46 -0500
>Received: from chebucto.ns.ca(129.173.4.200) by chigate via smap (V1.3)
>	id sma017177; Tue Aug  5 03:10:06 1997
>Received: by chebucto.ns.ca id <93388-3899>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:05:49 -0300
>Received: from root@athena.aaaa.net (port 1279 [207.41.8.12]) by
chebucto.ns.ca with ESMTP id <93392-3895>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:04:47 -0300
>Received: from hotmail.com (pm1m4.inct.net [208.10.116.223])
>	by athena.aaaa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA06507;
>	Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
>Date: 	Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
>From: doogus@hotmail.com
>Message-Id: <199708050743.DAA06507@athena.aaaa.net>
>To: doogus@hotmail.com
>Subject: hi
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>If you're using email to promote your business on the Internet,
>
>you need up-to-date addresses.
>
>While supply lasts, our 25,000,000 address CD-ROM is on
>
>sale for only $199.00.
>
>Call 1-812-597-1000 to order.


Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:28:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: '64 Vista Cruiser scripts

Hi Jim,
  I will be looking for these scripts for you when I go to Lansing. There is
going to be about 350 venders there all Oldsmobile so maybe I will have some
luck. I will bring the part numbers with me to be sure.

Everett OCA # 1961

E & G Automotive

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:39:07 -0500
From: jrjet@mtco.com (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Subject: Re: J heads

>
>OK, I thought that the MT 442's got the "K" heads with the big valves, and
>that all Toronados after 1972 used the regular-spec 455's. Anyone got an
>original MT 455-powered 442 from '73-'76 that they can look at the heads
>codes for us? And who here has torn down a '73-'76 Toro motor lately? Having
>big-valve heads in these cars would certainly widen the candidates for
>performance buildups.
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

I have just tore down the 455 out of a 76' 442 will check the heads next
time at the shop. They are "J" heads haven't checked the valves yet.

Tim

*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
#  Updated Weekly!                             *
*  New Recipe Section (Always In Progress!)!   #
#  http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3053     *
*  email:  jrjet@mtco.com                      #
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:39:14 -0500
From: jrjet@mtco.com (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Subject: 62 Dynamic 88, convertable

Hi All

I stopped and looked at a 62 dynamic 88 convertable today for sale. The car
was spotless with a fairly new top and good interior. Odometer read 88,277.
The number on the car is 309-674-6102. Didn't have a price on the car and
oqwner wasn't around to ask. If interested will look again for anyone.

Tim

*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
#  Updated Weekly!                             *
*  New Recipe Section (Always In Progress!)!   #
#  http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3053     *
*  email:  jrjet@mtco.com                      #
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:45:06 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

> 	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
> 	-lisa malden: 67
> 	-myself: 73
> 	-dan gulino: 75
> 	-john shelp: 77
> 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
> 	-steve ?: 85
> not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?
> that's all...
> 
> alain lachatre

Well it's not a Delta but I've got a '65 Dynamic 88. Former list member
Karl also has one.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:07:15 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: 1973 Olds Cutlass Supreme

>Should I put in the front and read windows then put the vynal roof on and
>then paint the body? Or should I paint the body first, put the vynal roof on
>and then the glass or maybe put the glass in first and then the vynal roof?
>Any ideas to save me grief later on and I will be forever in your debt.
>Please respond by direct email to me. 

[posted and emailed]

Ron, from what I remember from touring the Framingham, MA plant in 1972,
the factory's sequence back then was (1) paint entire car including roof,
(2) drop the vinyl top on, (3) put the glass in. The reasoning was
presumably that the full paint coverage helped seal the metal under the
vinyl, especially if the vinyl tore later on, and at top installation 
time when they were hurriedly spraying adhesive all over the place and
getting six beefy guys arranged around the car to pull the top tight
and drop it on, it was nice to not have glass in the way that would
have to be masked off. In addition, the open window space allowed them
to pull the excess vinyl down _and_ in around the frame before trimming,
something they would not be able to do with the glass in place.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

"Daniel A. Gulino"  wrote:
>
> At 01:05 PM 8/4/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I just wanted to know how much a classic car depreciates when the
frame
> >gets bent and is restraightened?  In my particular case, the rear
> >portion of my frame got bent as a result of the accident.  I want
some
> >ammo to present to the insurance company stating that my car was in 
> >perfect body shape (no accidents) prior to the accident.  Now I
can't
> >claim that its body is perfect because of the accident.  I want to
tell
> >them that as part of the settlement, they need to add in
depreciation
> >of my vehicle.  Any help on this one?
> >
> >
> >Chris Sparks
> 
> Chris,
> 
> In my opinion, you're dreamin'!  :)
> 
> No insurance company is going to pay you for something as nebulous
as the
> loss of value to a car because the frame was once bent.  If it's
been bent
> back and the car looks like it did before the accident, that's all
they're
> concerned about.  I would be very surprised if there is any
documentation
> or precedence you could point to where someone actually established a
> method for determining a loss in value because of a once-bent frame.
> 
> So what exactly do you want the insurance company to do?  You're
claiming
> that the car was worth, say, $10,000 before the accident and now,
because
> it has been in an accident (even though it's been repaired to the
point
> that it _looks_ and _performs_ just as it did before the accident),
it's
> value is, you claim, say, $6,000, you want them to pay you $4,000
for the
> loss in value _in addition_ what they already paid to have the car
fixed?
> Wow.  If you can get them to do it, please let us know the name of
the
> insurance company!
> 
> 
> Dan

****************************************
I remember a story a while back where a Mercedes Gullwing was damaged
and repaired. However, even though they did the best repair possible,
the car still lost value. The owner was able to prove it to the
insurance company and get reimbursed for the loss of value........... 
I'm sure you'll have to fight pretty hard.

===
John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

JSPajak@rocketmail.com
 


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:13:17 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

Dan

> In my opinion, you're dreamin'!  :)

Hmm... What... Spurt... Sputter...  Ok I am awake now :-)

> No insurance company is going to pay you for something as nebulous as the
> loss of value to a car because the frame was once bent.  If it's been bent
> back and the car looks like it did before the accident, that's all they're

What I am concerned about is that the frame may come close to the way it
was.
If I were to sell the car, then I would have to point this out and it
will 
definitely affect the selling value of the car.

> concerned about.  I would be very surprised if there is any documentation
> or precedence you could point to where someone actually established a
> method for determining a loss in value because of a once-bent frame.
> 
> So what exactly do you want the insurance company to do?  You're claiming
> that the car was worth, say, $10,000 before the accident and now, because
> it has been in an accident (even though it's been repaired to the point
> that it _looks_ and _performs_ just as it did before the accident), it's
> value is, you claim, say, $6,000, you want them to pay you $4,000 for the
> loss in value _in addition_ what they already paid to have the car fixed?
> Wow.  If you can get them to do it, please let us know the name of the
> insurance company!

Well I am dealing with Auto Club of Southern California.  It is my goal
to
really give it to them for their piss-poor handling of my claim with
them.
Am I a little mad?  Yup!

Later...
Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:29:53 -0400
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Value of car

At 07:13 AM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote:
>What I am concerned about is that the frame may come close to the way it
>was.
>If I were to sell the car, then I would have to point this out and it
>will 
>definitely affect the selling value of the car.

Why do you have to point it out?  Unless they specifically ask (and I
realize a potential buyer might very well do so), keep quiet!  Besides, if
you're not going to sell the car immediately, who's to say what the loss in
value would be when you ultimately do go to sell, which might not be for 5
or 10 years.


>Well I am dealing with Auto Club of Southern California.  It is my goal
>to
>really give it to them for their piss-poor handling of my claim with
>them.
>Am I a little mad?  Yup!

Good luck!


Dan
**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:50:41 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

>What I am concerned about is that the frame may [not? -- ACG] come
>close to the way it was. If I were to sell the car, then I would 
>have to point this out

Um, why? Unless you are offering a warranty of some sort, a private
sale would be caveat emptor. If the prospective buyer finds a frame
repair and asks you about it, you probably would have to tell them
the circumstances of the repair, but if the car is fine now, it
might be hard for them to justify a lower offer. As these cars age
through the decades they're going to accumulate all _sorts_ of
repairs, some of them major.

>and it will definitely affect the selling value of the car.

Well, it will if you keep droning on about it.  :-)


Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:51:58 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Value of car

John Pajak anecdotally points out:

> ****************************************
> I remember a story a while back where a Mercedes Gullwing was damaged
> and repaired. However, even though they did the best repair possible,
> the car still lost value. The owner was able to prove it to the
> insurance company and get reimbursed for the loss of value........... 
> I'm sure you'll have to fight pretty hard.

Certainly, it's worth fightin' fer the difference w/the insurance company
when your car is worth $300K like an M-B Gullwing; but when you're talking
more on the order of, say, $3K-7K, methinks it would be a losing battle
of very limited returns at best.

I also wonder what percentage of the re-imbursement the lawyer involved in
the case w/ the Gullwing got.

Then again, maybe it was *owned* by the lawyer.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: 71 442 Altenator

I am restoring a 71 442 W30 Conv..  I need the correct 37A altenator for this
car.
Someone has given me a part # of  1100543-37amp.  Is this the correct part #
, and does anyone have this part to sell ?  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:06:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: 71 442 Altenator

I am restoring a 71 442 W30 Conv..  I need the correct 37A altenator for this
car.
Someone has given me a part # of  1100543-37amp.  Is this the correct part #
, and does anyone have this part to sell ?  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 70' Rear Bumper

At 05:51 PM 8/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
> I am looking for a 70' Cutlass rear bumper in excellent shape.  One with or
>without the exhaust cutouts.  If you have any good ones or good cores, E-mail
>me back with prices and shipping costs.
>                                        Thank you.
>

Sorry, can't help you with this, but I'll keep and eye out. I've been trying
to contact you about the other item we discussed, but your mailbox is full.
(Sorry to put this on the list, BTW)

Thanks, JR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:20:19 -0500
From: "smardale@airmail.net" <smardale@airmail.net>
Subject: 1964-65 442/Cutlass/F-85 responses to date...

Here's the list of the respondents to date-- E-Mail addresses will be 
included in the next installment.  Keep your browsers pointed towards 
Bryceman's site for additions and updates...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travis Adams           1965 442 Club Coupe

Randy Alderfer         1964 442 Convertible

Paul Brillhart         1965 442 Club Coupe

Bryceman               1965 442 Club Coupe

Rick Copithrone        1964 442

Ron Forsee             1965 442 Holiday Coupe

Jeff & Patti Kobinski  1965 F-85

Scott Martindale       1965 442 Holiday Coupe
                       1965 442 Convertible

Sean McCarthy          1964 442

Robb Nevins            1964 Cutlass Sport Coupe

Steve Potter           1965 F-85

James Smith            1965 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:24:34 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Is this dealer still open

>All I know is that the dealer's name was Romel and was out of Redondo
>Beach, CA.

FWIW, an on-line search of dealers in Redondo Beach turned up eight
listings (new & used), but no Romel anymore, and no Oldsmobile brand. 
As far as possible near-misses, there was a "Classic Motors," an "R 
C Motors" and an "R-Way Sales" in the used department. HTH...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: WKBZZZZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: A few more questions

Your swap is a simple one, every thing from your 350 will bolt right up.
The 4 row rad. is perfect for the 455. I've done this swap numerous times,
and it's a direct replacement. If you have never installed header before on 
a cutlass you may have a little trouble, but take your time, follow the
direction and
you'll be fine. Sometimes you have to dimple the header a bit, go slow and
don't
go over board with the hammer, also becareful to clear the all brake lines.
(I'm not sure about roller rockers, but you can check with crane they will
have them or point you in the right direction). Your goning to love that
power . Good luck 


                                                        Keith Brumbley
                                                        71 442 conv.
                                                        WKBZZZZ@AOL.COM
                                                         let me know how it
works out

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:09 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

>Earlier today I was reading an e-mail from this list from someone who
>mentioned the top ten car by 1/4 mile.  What about the 1968-1969 Hurst
>Oldses.  Aren't these faster than the W30 that was mentioned?  Also

A few Oldses are. Trouble comparing times across magazines and across years
is that there are so many variables involved (driving style, temperature and
humidity at the track, track surface, fine-tuning of the car, etc), that a
comparison of two road-test times is not always reliable for determining
which car is faster. So, while bone-stock 1970 W-30's could run mid-upper
13's, there were road-tests that had them running 14.2 quarters. Conversely,
though I have no doubt a '68-'69 H/O could run 13's, you have to take the
times provided by a manufacturer, or the times a magazine recorded with a
car supplied by a manufacturer, with a grain of salt, as there could be
fudging with either the times or the cars themselves (see the Musclecar
Review article about the legendary 12.2sec quarter mile quoted for the
Shelby Cobra; a guy took it for a road test, came back, and said he turned a
12.2 quarter. Not exactly scientific).

Obviously, a '70 W-30 will always be quicker than a '84 H/O, but when you
compare it to, say, a '67 W-30, it comes down to two cars on the same track
at the same time, and the first one across the line is the faster car. Next
day, same cars with same drivers, the other car could be the faster.

>when getting a relative rating on a car, just the time is not really
>fair.  If I had a 2000 lb car with my 68's 400 engine, I would be 
>pretty menacing too!  I keep toying with the idea of coming up with a
>rating system that takes into account the time (1/4 mile, whatever),
>weight, "n"-speed, engine size, compression ratio, add-ons (turbo,
>ram air), horse power (actual), carb flow rate, and any other things
>that I can't think of now.  

OK, but what would you be trying to determine through that formula? Relative
Performance? That can only be measured in a one-on-one race; if you're first
across the line, you've got the quicker car.

>It is my opinion that if I had a 4000 lb
>car with 300 hp, a 2000 lb car with 150 hp would be on par with each
>other given that all other factors are similar.

Of course, our aim is to have the 300hp engine in the 2000lb car... :)

>I work with a fellow who has one of those Mitsu-sleezy cars and he 
>claims that he could beat my car in a race (my 68 442).  Well maybe
>he can, however, lets see him limit his driving to the first 3 gear
>positions and lets puts equal weights into the car.  I bet we would
>have a good go at it!

Well, you've got to race cars, not engines. Of course, your engine may have
more hp (definitely more torque), but that's not the point when you're
talking about the quicker car. The road-tests I've seen of the '68
325hp/auto-equipped 442 seem to be around 15 seconds flat; the 5-speed AWD
turbo Mitsu's can dip well into the 14's, so I'd say he has you covered.

So, it's up to you to get another 100 hp out of your engine... :)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:18 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: f-body disc brakes on my 67 f-85

>>>>>wait, your saying that i can put REAR disc brakes on my F85!!!!!
> ALLLLLLLL
>
> RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!  thanx for the info. NOw let me ask u
>something. what about the front disc, can i or cant i put them on the F85
>????  Ill b getting the whole car, if you need any parts let me know.  Funny

You can use those discs, but you need special ball joints (F-body taper with
the A-body mounting; H-O used to offer this, but went under, and someone
else has picked up their business; check the archives for this discussion),
and either tubular upper A-arms or an offset upper mount.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:15 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: J heads

>The info I have is
>
>'73    J   455 4bbl. at.
>'74    J   455 all w/at
>'75-6 J   455 all except marine
>
>It doesn't have a listing for K but there is a KA head 
>
>'73-4   KA   455 smt,marine,irr.
>'75-6   KA   455 marine,irr.,serv.
>
>I had a set of J's off of a '76 Delta. They had the smaller valves.

Were the '75-'76 Cutlass 455's offered with a manual transmission? If not,
then the last big-valve engines installed in cars would be the '74 MT Cutlasses.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:14 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: A/F and oil questions...

> 
>> My Delta 88 (305 4bbl.) is on the sidelines right now, and I plan to
<snip>
>> in the back-40.  Is the a/f overflow very accurate?  When the engine is
>> cold, the level is always a 1/4" above the MAX. HOT, which is a good two
>> inches below the MAX. COLD level.  I poured in some straight Prestone

Um, do you have these backwards? Usually, the MAX HOT line is *above* the
MAX COLD line, to account for the fluid that overflows when the engine gets hot.

>> about a month ago (up to the MAX. COLD), and it quickly returned to the
>> same level.  The level won't fall any further, even under stress, such
>> as half an hour of idling, or opening up the four-barrels for a few
>> hundred yards...

Well, lets assume your upper line is the MAX HOT line: then, when your
engine gets hot enough to build up radiator pressure, and the cap releases
(usually after driving on a hot day, and parking it, since the coolant isn't
circulating any more), the extra fluid bubbles into the recovery tank. The
reason there's a MAX COLD and a MAX HOT line is that any fluid above that
will simply escape through the overflow outlet from that recovery tank. So,
no matter how many times you fill it above a MAX line, anything extra will
simply escape through that overflow outlet.

>> car doesn't blow any white smoke at oper. temp., but there is a couple
>> small puffs for the first minute...it doesn't help that the auto choke
>> thermo is F.U.B.A.R.

Sounds like your car is operating as it should. Just as long as the HOT
light doesn't come on, you're all set.

>> Since all of this running is short, I keep the oil changed.  I've got
>> access to name-brand oils at cost price, so I change the oil once it
>> gets real nice and black.  What about DuraLube?  Since most engine wear

Bad idea. Don't use it.

>> synthetic, such as Castrol Syntec, Q.S. Synquest and so on...

Use a synthetic if you really want to find all the potential oil leaks in
your engine.

>> I want the engine to last as long as possible, and that's why I want to
>> clear up this a/f problem, plus get a little info on this oil subject.
>> Right now I'm running Valvoline 10W-30, with a can of STP oil
>> supplement...it helps keep the valvetrain quiet.  It only rattles a
>> little at start-up...

Keep using that. It will last for years, most likely.

>> I'd like to pick up a Cutlass within the next year or two:  I want
>> something a little more performance-oriented, but still an Oldsmobile.
>> Were there Cutlass's made with the 350 or 455?  I already have an Olds
>> with the 307, and it could fall prey to a scooter...

They had 455's from '70-'76, and 350's from '68-'80 (limited availability in
'78-'80, though).

>Back when I drove my 69 350 4-bbl, 4-spd with a/c (and I mention this as
>a reference point) I could fill the radiator up to the top and it would
>lose, kickout or whatever about 2" down in the radiator core.  I never
>did figure out what caused it as I eventually quit driving it due to a

That's how a non-overflow system was designed to work. That 2" was the
expansion space for the fluid. Again, no matter how often you fill it above
that, the extra will simply blow out when it gets hot, and return to that
line. Of course, this means that the level is self-regulating, so you don't
have to fret about getting the level to exactly that line; the engine does
it for you.

My '69 Toronado has this setup. Since I added an overflow tank to it, I can
fill it up to the top, and now I have that much extra coolant capacity (and
let me tell you, Olds engines can use all the cooling help they can get!).

>trans problem.  The car would start to get hot in Alabama summer weather
>(really hot) with the air on in slow or stalled traffic.  If I drove it
>70+ mph it would cool down again (didn't like slow speeds).  Never knew
>why it did this.  Hopefully when I start restoring it next year, I will
>take care of this problem and all others that show up.  

Perhaps a radiator shroud and a new thermostatic clutch fan with 6 or more
blades will help. You need more airflow at idle. I'm still searching for the
elusive "cool engine" mode for my 403, which will stay at 180' until the
outside temp gets above 85'; never gets above 210', but I'd like her to run
cooler anyhow, as she gets slower as she gets hotter.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:16 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: A few more questions

>    This weekend I'm planning on purchasing a rebuilt 455 long block for
>
>    1.)  I have a four core radiator.  Will this be enough to cool that
>monster? (I've actually asked this one before but for some reason never
>recieved the digest that had the replies to it!)

Yes; that's what the 442's used, and if it's clean and unclogged inside and
out, it should do just fine.

>    2.)  I've heard that the original 350 mounts could be used.  Are
>they acutally the same, or do they change the drive train geometries?

Apparently they raise the engine about 1". I've compared the SB and BB frame
mounts, and the holes are in different locations, which seems to confirm the
claim made here that you can use BB motor&frame mounts, or SB motor&frame
mounts (raising the engine 1"), but that you can't mix and match the SB and
BB motor mounts with the frame mounts. If anyone can confirm otherwise, I'd
love to hear it.

>    3.)  I'm going to hold out for C Code heads, but they will not come
>with rocker arms, etc.  Does anyone know a manufacturer who makes a good
>roller rocker valve train for this engine?  And how much does it cost?

Comp cams offers a bolt-on kit that people here seem happy with, and it
costs under $300. I've considered something like the Harland Sharp aluminum
rockers, which are ~$220, but then you have to add in costs of machining the
heads for 7/16" studs, whereas the Comp Cams setup includes the studs and
pushrods you need, and requires no machining. I'm still up in the air; those
skinny little 5/16" studs would seem likely to snap right off with a
high-lift/high-pressure valvespring combination, but maybe they're made
really strong, and engineered very well.

But, if you're not using a very wild cam, there's not much to be gained by
moving to roller rockers. Longer pushrods and shims will give you the
preload you want (which is why you want adjustable rockers) for 1/3 the
price. But if money is no object, go with the rollers.

>    4.)  My plan is to buy a junk late 70's 455 (in semi-reasonable
>condition) steal it's sheet iron and intake, etc. and use it for a core.

Well, they stopped making them in '76, and '73 and later ones had an EGR
intake. Your best bet is to hunt down a '70-'72 4-bbl intake with the
provisions for an integral choke hot-tube (you don't want to mess with the
divorced-choke setup from '66-'69), or go with an Edelbrock Performer to
save yourself time (though it's probably $100-$150 more than a used iron
one; I'd go with this more than roller rockers, if your cam will allow it).
The oil pan and front cover can come from any car (even your old 350), as
can the oil-filter mount. Though you'd ideally have Cutlass BB valvecovers
with the clearance notches, you can use non-notched valvecovers if you don't
mind "tight" clearances (only a problem with power brakes and/or A/C).

You can use your 350's brackets with no problems; you'll just need the belts
for a 455.

>    6.)  Will the distributor from the 350 work with the 455, or do I
>need to look into getting one of those, too?

Yes, your 350 distributor will work. Be careful getting it out. Oh, and
don't forget to install a new oil-pump driveshaft... ;)

>    7.)  Same for the water pump...and will it pump enough to cool that
>badboy?

Oh, get a rebuilt one for about $35. Don't cheap out here; you'd hate to
have that bearing start squealing a week after you sealed this up and bolted
it in, wouldn't you? Yes, your 350 pump would work, but it's not worth it.

>To tell you the truth folks, I'm a bit nervous about this swap.  My
>car's been down for about a month now, and I'm getting tired of the bus,
>but I refuse to do a shotty job of this engine swap.  If anyone has any
>other suggestions on what I could do to make this swap easier, please
>let me know.  Thanks for everything.

Get a starter for a 455; while the 350's starter will physically bolt on,
it's got less torque, and you'll need it to crank over a HC 455, especially
when it's hot. I picked up a lifetime warranty one yesterday from Pep Boys
for $44, so it's not that expensive.

Make sure your wiring (starter, distributor) is in good shape; it's easier
to repair it when the engine's out.

Don't force things; if things aren't sliding into place, there's usually a
reason why, and a 2-lb. sledge usually isn't the solution.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:47:08 -0500
From: "LAURA D. STEINKE" <WPODOM1.HORT-FOREST.LSTEINKE@taexgw.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: Delta 88's

Sorry about not quoting anyting, but my mail won't let me qoute from the
digest <grumble>

Anyway this is to Alain Lachatre about the Delta 88's.  Just wanted to
pipe in that I've got a 66 Delta 88, I just don't post to the list much.  Actually
I like the Delta's.  My first one was a 86 (which we finally sold because
fixing the alternator and transmission all the time was getting to be way
too expensive) Now I've got the 66 which needs some spiffing up, but I
like it anyway <happy smile>

Although I would like make an observation...has anyone else with a
massive car (like the 66 Deltas) routinly get un-noticed?  Or is it just
me/my car/my location?  I've noticed that everytime I drive it there are
many times when others around just don't seem to notice that there is a
*huge* car sitting there.  Second day I drove it I almost got hit head on by
someone driving on my side of the road, he was going slow and probably
paying more attention to the people in the park...I've almost had someone
merge lanes into me, even when I was enough ahead that I definatly
wasn't in the blind spot....And the worst, is that at least half a dozen
times now I've had some close calls while trying to back out of parking
places in a lot.  From people zooming down the isle while I'm backing out
to others who start backing out right behind me even though I'm still
backing out and almost into the middle of the isle.   Maybe it's just where I
live <grin>  Unfortunatly Pook the ghost car has seemed to stick for a
nickname by my friends :}

Okay rant mode off :)  I'm back to work.  Oh and thanks cf for the
speedometer help, I've got the cable and took a look at where it goes but
havn't done it yet.  But I did change the oil all by my lonesome (for the
unmechanically inclined this is a big deal) and it was probably a good
thing too since I found out that when the engine was being rebuilt they
just cross threaded the drain screw <grumble>....that mystery of the
leaky engine is resolved  <grin>

Laura
66 Delta 88 aka Pook the ghost car

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:51:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics Shoot-Out

In a message dated 97-08-05 16:12:53 EDT, you write:

<< By the way, I have two 1972 magazines with road tests of the '72 W-30.
 I'd
 be happy to post the figures from those tests, if anyone is interested.
 
 Tom Stoner >>

Tom -

I'd be very interested in this.  Anyone else out there have this kind of info
for other models and years?

Tom Simmons
71 SX

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:29:32 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

Andrew C. Green wrote:

> Um, why? Unless you are offering a warranty of some sort, a private
> sale would be caveat emptor. If the prospective buyer finds a frame
> repair and asks you about it, you probably would have to tell them

I am sometimes overly honest about things.  I would probably offer the
information.

> the circumstances of the repair, but if the car is fine now, it
> might be hard for them to justify a lower offer. As these cars age

Well I am in the Antiques and Collectibles business as well.  When I 
sell a piece of merchandise that is perfect I usually get more money
than one that had been repaired.  Even if the repair was perfect that
no one can tell the difference.  I still lowered my prices on the
repaired merchandise because technically is not in mint condition.  I 
guess this is where I am coming from.

> through the decades they're going to accumulate all _sorts_ of
> repairs, some of them major.

Well in my case, this car had never seen an accident.  The frame was
perfect (California car).  I am a little upset with the fact that it
is now not perfect.  I think that the insurance company or even the
guy who hit me needs to do kick something in.  It is not like a brand
new car than can be purchased off the lot of a new car dealership.

> >and it will definitely affect the selling value of the car.
> 
> Well, it will if you keep droning on about it.  :-)

Did I tell you I was part bumble bee? :-)  I'll stop pursuing this
thread if it really bothers others.  Greg?  I was just interested
in seeing if I had a valid claim to present against the Auto Club.

Later....

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:46:06 -0700
From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@quix.net>
Subject: Replated bumpers (Cutlass)

I have a front and rear bumper from a 70 Cutlass. No cutouts, but  good
cores to
chrome. Show quality chroming is $210.00 plus shipping, under $30.00
anywhere in US. I can have them plated in two weeks. Money back
guarantee with a smile : (     
Return shipping is insured for $500.00 ea. in case something happens. If
you
send me your bumper as a good doable core, (exchange) i will return ship
the chromed
bumper for free. At this time i have front and rear for 71 cutlass already
plated. same price.     sincerely  Mike Aldana
  maldana@quix.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:16:14 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: parts for sale

Trying to clean out my basement and the following are for sale:

2 Bucket seats, drk green, includes headrest, fronts are very nice, backs are
faded,$50 ea, not sure what year but I think early 70s
2 Black bench seats, free, reasonable shape
Bucket seat, off white, tears, $10
Bucket seat backs, blk, good shape, $15
70s? front kick panels, r/l, good shape,$5
Hurst shifter, $40
71 442 grills, fair shape,$50 ea

I'm in the Wash.,D.C metro area.   Todd Morris (301) 803-1658 (8-5PM),
301-530-7430 after 6.  If you're serious some of this I could take to Lansing.


Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

- -"Timothy A. Churchill"  wrote:
I also wonder what percentage of the re-imbursement the lawyer
involved in
the case w/ the Gullwing got.

Then again, maybe it was *owned* by the lawyer.

Tim Churchill

***********************
You're probably right!

===
John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

JSPajak@rocketmail.com

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #787
********************************

