To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #721


oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 16 June 1997        Volume 01 : Number 721

69 disc-brake rotors
Bucket seats
Need a Rocket Motor
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Opportunity
Electical Problems
I Wuz Wrong (WAS  More Non Olds Aspect)
Re: Fwd: Rocket Engines -the story was 455
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Electical Problems
Olds Innovations in the 30's
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Re: Rocket Origins; was 455
Re: ralley rims
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
It's summer and the Rockets are in bloom.
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
ODDS 'N' ENDS
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Rocket Origins; was 455
455 Fuel Injection
Car Show This Sunday in Illinois
Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]
Re: 455 Fuel Injection
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re[2]: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
1959 Rocket 88
RE: 84 Cutlass Ciera conv.
RE: Olds 'Edge'
Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Re: Olds Innovations in the 30's
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: ralley rims
Re: ralley rims
RE: 84 Cutlass Ciera conv.
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: 70 SX for sale
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: 455
I need pictures for my page
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:00:58 -0300
Subject: 69 disc-brake rotors

OK,  I'll throw this out there.....I'm searching for one, but I would
take a pair if I had to, of the two-piece disc brake rotor for 69 F-85.
I think that early 70's had these also.  It has a noticable "flange"
where the wheel meets the rotor.  Anybody got one?  Also the long vinyl
"windlace" trim for the sides of the headliner for 69 Cutlass Holiday
Coupe.  The ones that snap into the edge where the headliner meets the
windows.....black preferably.

And for anyone wanting info on that 70 SX for sale, I'll do a good going
over on it and see if I can get this thing cheaper if it's in good
shape.  If it's a rag, I'll also let you folks know......

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:13:01 -0300
Subject: Bucket seats

Hello
I would like to put buckets in my 81 Cutlass Supreme. I am assuming that
I can pull these out of the following Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Regal,
Grand National. Did I miss any? Am I right or wrong? There should be no
problems putting in a centre console either right?
And finally I picked up a guage package out of an 85 or 86 (don't
remember) Cutlass Supreme for mine. Any problems I might need to look
for when installing it.
as always TIA
Tim
81 Cutlass Supreme
(under construction)

------------------------------

From: Tom & Jodie Martin <tmartin@genevaonline.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:19:58 -0300
Subject: Need a Rocket Motor

I am looking for a short block Rocket 307/350/403 in the N. Ill, S. WI
area, can anyone help?  I don't really need heads and intake, but if the
$$ is right, I would take em.  I have a 307 in my 85 Cutlass that has a
cracked piston and I would like to get the car running as cheap as
possible.  I hate to do it this way, but finances aren't the greatest
right now.  A 350 seems cheaper to rebuild, but I would like something
that I can drop in and drive.  Can anyone point me in the right
direction?

Please email me directly at mailto:tmartin@genevaonline.com

Thanks!
Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme 307 "Y"

------------------------------

From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:34:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Mike Frederick wrote:

<snip>                                                          > The topic
under discussion was
>about why the "It's not your Father's Oldsmobile" marketing campaign was
>such a disaster.  I don't have all her details yet but apparently among
>many marketing professionals (and professors), it failed to attract the
>younger crowd while at the same time alienating Olds' traditional buyers.
>So they lost on both ends.

Hey Mike, as a sidebar to her lecture, your daughter can discuss Olds'
CURRENT marketing campaign. Something like, "Oldsmobile has lost many loyal
customers in recent years due to the fact that they are using a cookie
cutter to mass-produce 4-door, import wannabee, jelly bean shaped
automobiles with absolutely no power or style..."  (Okay, the Aurora looks
good, but they need to make IT in a 2-door version.)  She can also lay the
blame on a person you mentioned to Andy Green a while back, Mr. Mark E.
Tingweenie.  (Still like that one:-)  Enough venting for now...

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html
http://wcbi.com

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:22:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Opportunity

Hi Bill,

> This doesn't sound like a ª2 car.  A ª2 car would place 1st im almost
> all local car shows.  It looks perfect unless compared to a ª1 car.
> Most new cars are ª2 types.

You are right.  I got my ª's wrong.  It is a 5 out of 6.  This car is
mainly good enough for some parts.  Not worthy of restoration without
spending gobs of money.

Chris

------------------------------

From: Dan Lapp <dlapp@webxfm.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:57:23 -0300
Subject: Electical Problems

Here's an odd one

Was driving along (in my 72 Cutlass, 350, AT) when the Generator light came
on. Battery, altenator, starter are all checked out OK.

Insturment lights (brake, temp., oil, etc...) no longer light up when I turn
the key before starting (they used to work).

Generator light glows dimly when when car is running in P, R, N - but when I
shift into Drive it glows brightly.

Seems to run fine - I keep checking the battery - its not losing any charge.

Any ideas/guesses?

Thanks in advance
        Dan Lapp

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:52:57 -0300
Subject: I Wuz Wrong (WAS  More Non Olds Aspect)

I Said:

> > Don't be too hasty with your verdict, CT boy.  I'm under the impression
> > that Hampton (and Hampton Beach) are sections of Seabrook.  I will verify
> > this on the map.

Brad Most Eloquently Replied:

>   Well go ahead and verify all you want, you Lubsta eating unbeliever!!
>   I have spent the last 15 years taking two weeks summer vacation on the
> beaches
>   of semi-private Seabrook, which is on the west side of Hampton Harbor.

Well, whaddya know?  I've only been going to Hampton for 30 years or so
m'self, and all this time I thought Hampton Beach was in Seabrook.
I looked it up, and I was wrong.  Sorry for any confusion.

But I'm floored, Brad was right about something; I better call the Globe
and let 'em headline it :)

By the way, what is 'lubstah'?  Is that how you Conniving-eticutt folks
pronounce lobster?  'round here, it's more often sounds like 'lawb-stah'.
Or more siuply, 'bugs'.  'Lubstah' is more like how a Kennedy might say it;
but after all, they have a Long Island accent, NOT a New England one :)

Olds Content:  I've never been one to put much stock in triskadecaphobia,
but this last Friday the 13th sort of lived up to its name; I had the
'Commute From Hell' in Big Red.  Got caught top-down in a torrential downpour,
just as I got onto the Mass Pike, at a section where there was no breakdown
lane of course to alleviate the prob :P  Once I did get the top up, I was
almost rear-ended twice by folks who didn't understand that their anti-lock
brakes increased their stopping distance... and I saw one chain reaction
collision happen in a lane I just moved from.  Took almost an hour and a half
for a normally 35 minute commute.  Was *very* happy to get the car home
unscathed.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'


------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:04:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Rocket Engines -the story was 455

In 1957 Olds released the J-2 Golden Rocket.  This was a 371 inch engine with
a six-pack (it only came with a six-pack) that put out 312 horses. Pity they
only made them for 1 year.

     Actually, Olds made the J-2 for two years, 1957 and 1958.  The 1966
     L69 tri-carb engine (400 cu in) was a one-year only option, however.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:17:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Doug Newman wrote:
>
> Hey Mike, as a sidebar to her lecture, your daughter can discuss Olds'
> CURRENT marketing campaign.

We did discuss that but I guess it's too early (in history) for it to be
considered a classic case of suicidal marketing.  According to Adrienne,
the "father" thing is considered on par with "The New Coke".  Perhaps my
granddaughter will get to give that lecture.

> Something like, "Oldsmobile has lost many loyal customers in recent
> years due to the fact that they are using a cookie cutter to
> mass-produce 4-door, import wannabee, jelly bean shaped...

Yeah.  Interesting to see that Chrysler seems to be taking exactly the
opposite tack.  Bringing back their old logos and building things like
the Viper and the Prowler.  And what's that silver Tucker/Merc thing
called they keep showing -- I WANT ONE!

Chrysler's cars seem much less jelly-bean than some others. (BTW, IMHO
some of those new Fords are just awful)  Then there's Volkswagen's new
Beetle.  At least there's a few out there who realize we don't all want
to drive something from Benehanna.

Marketing Notes:

1) The kids who drooled over muscle cars in the 60s are called "Baby
Boomers".
2) Baby Boomers are older now and have more money than today's kids.
3) Never use college students for your marketing surveys.

I read a review of the new Cutlass (in respect to it's ancestor, it
really should be called a Gutlass) in the Tribune last week.  The guy
said it was a fairly nice car but a rice-burner none the less.  I mean,
he out and out said said it was Oldsmobiles attempt to build a Japanese
car.  Geez.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:55:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Electical Problems

Dan Lapp wrote:
>
> Here's an odd one
>
> Was driving along (in my 72 Cutlass, 350, AT) when the Generator light came
> on. Battery, altenator, starter are all checked out OK.
>
> Insturment lights (brake, temp., oil, etc...) no longer light up when I turn
> the key before starting (they used to work).
>
> Generator light glows dimly when when car is running in P, R, N - but when I
> shift into Drive it glows brightly.
>
> Seems to run fine - I keep checking the battery - its not losing any charge.
>
> Any ideas/guesses?
>
> Thanks in advance
>         Dan Lapp

The '72 442 I had did the same thing except the seat belt buzzer started
working at the same time. Never figured out what caused it. Wasn't to
worried about it.

Daren

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:44 -0300
Subject: Olds Innovations in the 30's

For Father's Day, my children showed taste that belied their age
of 3 years :) and gave me a coffeetable book called 'The American
Dream Machine', which covers various cars built in the 50s and 60s.

Unfortunately, there was only one Olds listed in the table of contents
(and no, it wasn't a 442 or Toro -- I believe it was an 88 from the mid
'50s); *BUT* in the introduction there was some discussion about earlier
cars, and the innovations they had which then helped create the whole
car scene in later years.

One of the examples was the 1938 Oldsmobile, which had a *vaccuum* controlled
radio.  As the car's speed increased, or when the driver stomped the pedal
for hard acceleration, the radio's volume automatically increased.
Conversely, as the car slowed, the volume was decreased.  Tres cool.
This way, one could clearly hear all of Orson Welle's 'War of the Worlds',
regardless of how fast one's car was going...

So what if Packard came out with air conditioning the same year? :)





Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:10:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

> Hey Mike, as a sidebar to her lecture, your daughter can discuss Olds'
> CURRENT marketing campaign. Something like, "Oldsmobile has lost many loyal
> customers in recent years due to the fact that they are using a cookie
> cutter to mass-produce 4-door, import wannabee, jelly bean shaped
> automobiles with absolutely no power or style..."  (Okay, the Aurora looks
> good, but they need to make IT in a 2-door version.)  She can also lay the
> blame on a person you mentioned to Andy Green a while back, Mr. Mark E.
> Tingweenie.  (Still like that one:-)  Enough venting for now...
>
> Doug Newman
> Columbus, MS
> 1987 442
>
> http://www.442.com/newman.html
> http://wcbi.com

Something that didn't make sense to me was that they dropped the 98
because of "lack of sales". If that is so why not drop the Silhouette
and Bravada the 98 out sold both of them. The Silhouette is ugly. The
Bravada is a poor excuse for a luxury suv. Good idea wrong platform
FULL-SIZE! I sat in one about a year ago and found it to be as cramped
as my wife's Grand Am. Not what I'd want in a luxury vehicle.

Daren

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:22:11 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

> Whew....  Finally a voice of reason.  Man, I'm gone for a couple days, and
> everyone starts praising ch*vy's!  What's goin' on here?  :)
> Hmmmm....
>
>
>              Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
>              500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
>              Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>              Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>              "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
>              "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              "FAST FWD" (Soon)     | '67 Toronado 425
>                      Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

The sad think is I only listed a few things wrong with these inferior
engines. Chevy's are designed to be cheap entry level cars and thats
what you get. I got a shirt you'd like. It says Chevys SUCK! with Beavis
and Butthead pissing on a bow-tie got another but has Ford on it.

Daren

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:13:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Mike Frederick wrote:

> Thought you might be interested in this:
>
> My daughter just called me to wish me a happy Father's Day.  Adrienne is
> a marketing grad student at Texas A&M.  Seems she' been very busy
> preparing for a lecture she has to give to the undergrads on failed
> marketing schemes.  One on the case studies: Oldsmobile!  I've asked her
> to forward her stuff to me -- should make for interesting discussions.

Just a note/2 cents, Bad Marketing usually comes with good product!  For
example:
Microslop -> Best marketed ever, absolute junk
OS/2      -> Terribly marketed, good system
Pilsner Beer -> Awesome beer (Canadian brand), never really marketed at all
Budwieser -> Disgusting beer, good commercials, very popular, go figure!

I, for one, am HAPPY with oldsmobiles good quality over good marketing
choice, and hope they would put out a decent car someday (Imagine a '76
98 sized car built to today's specs, it'd be a musclecar motorhome luxury
liner!)

I think that was more 7 than 2 cents, but..

...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
..............................................................

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:23:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Daren & Laurie wrote:
>
> Something that didn't make sense to me was that they dropped the 98
> because of "lack of sales". If that is so why not drop the Silhouette
> and Bravada the 98 out sold both of them. Secret tape of Weenie meeting:

"Hmmm...  Let's see...  This is 1997.  It's the 100th anniversary of
Oldsmobile.  The 1998 models are due out this fall.  We could build a
limited edition 1998 '98!"

"Naw.  Let's build Toyotas."

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:21:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

At 12:40 AM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up Oldsmobile's "Edge"
>package.  I've heard of different people who supposedly know everything
>about them, etc.  Of course, these people have never been introduced to me,
>it's only been "so-and-so knows ~everything~ about those cars..."  I've
>~seen~ a few "Edge" cars, but have no information about what that really
>means.  Anybody?????????????????

"Edge" cars? Like the Achieva "on the Edge of extinction" models? No,
seriously, I've never heard anything about this. Was it a decal on the car?
A set of options? On new cars, or on older cars? Perhaps it's a regional
thing? _______________________________________________________ Dr. Robert
Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu Theology Dept, Providence
College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:36:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Rocket Origins; was 455

Actually, the little piece of information about
WHEN ROcket symbols were used I THINK I can help on.
I believe that in 1949 some guy named charles kettering
did something to make them "rocket" engines...i heard somewhere
that all Olds motors (or at least all v8's) from 49 to 90
are rockets.

- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:44:14 -0300
Subject: Re: ralley rims

MROTHE wrote:
>
> Check with James Chermack at chermac@exis.net
>
> He usually has a good selection of rallye wheels.  But the rallyes that
> came on the 69's are 14 X 6 inch wide  (skinny) ones.  You could
> probably upgrade to 70-up styles that would get you 7" wide or better
> for some wider tread tires.....just an idea.  I'm not just plugging for
> Jim C. here, you can check hemmings, and others on the list. And the
> Bryceman's Olds page classifieds at www.442.com
>
> I just know if Jim doesn't have it, he usually knows where to get it.
> Of course it makes a difference if they are the P05 (skinny chrome
> spoke) or N66 (painted spoke) option.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike Rothe

Did they ever make 15x8 rims? If so, I'd like to know how to get a pair.

- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft) Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: Patrick Flowers <patri63@ibm.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:48:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

Robert Barry wrote:
>
> At 12:40 AM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >       In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up Oldsmobile's
"Edge" > >package.  I've heard of different people who supposedly know
everything > >about them, etc.  Of course, these people have never been
introduced to me, > >it's only been "so-and-so knows ~everything~ about those
cars..."  I've > >~seen~ a few "Edge" cars, but have no information about what
that really > >means.  Anybody????????????????? > > "Edge" cars? Like the
Achieva "on the Edge of extinction" models? No, > seriously, I've never heard
anything about this. Was it a decal on the car? > A set of options? On new
cars, or on older cars? Perhaps it's a regional thing?

Actually, wasn't the "Oldsmobile Edge" a service/extended warranty
marketing gimmick about five years ago?  I seem to remember that they
would even send out a service rep with a replacement key if you locked
yourself out of your car.  At least, that's what the TV commercial
promised ;o)

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers    Mailto:patri63@ibm.net

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:57:00 -0300
Subject: It's summer and the Rockets are in bloom.

I attended a local cruise in last Saturday and I was amazed at the
number of Oldsmobiles in attendance.  '57 98 convetible with J-2, '68
4-4-2 W-30, my '70 4-4-2, '71 4-4-2 W-30 convertible, and a '72 Cutlass
4-4-2.  5 Rockets out of 200 cars, 2.5% is not bad around this area for
an open show.  The '57 98 looked beautiful, the '68 W-30 was sharp, My
'70 4-4-2 was there, the '71 W-30 had been repainted w/o stripes and did
not have red inner fenders (?????), and the '72 looked to be a very
clean original.  Overall there was less dominance by the evil bowties,
always a good thing.  It was nice to take the Olds out in dry weather
this weekend with the entire family.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:10:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

Charley Buehner wrote:
>
>         In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up Oldsmobile's
"Edge" > package. , but have no information about what that really > means.
Anybody????????????????? > '95 sales brochure says

As an Oldsmobile owner, you'll get the Oldsmobile Edge:

Bumber-to-Bumper Warranty
Every part of your Oldsmobile is covered under our warranty, except
tires (they have their own warranty), for three years or 36,000 miles,
whichever comes first. And you won't have to pay a deductible.

24-Hour Roadside Assistance
We'll be there to help you 24 hours a day 365 days a year, during the
warranty period. All you need to do is call our toll-free number. there
are over 15,000 emergency facilities ready to help you.

Courtesy Transportation
When you drop off your Oldsmobile for same-day warranty service, we'll
give you a free one-way shuttle up to ten miles. For overnight service,
we'll give you a loaner or reimburse you up to $30 a day for
transportation.

Guaranteed Satisfaction
If you're not satisfied with your new Oldsmobile, you can bring it back
within 30 days or 1,500 miles wichever comes first, and receive full
credit toward the purchase or SmartLease of another new Oldsmobile.

Hope the Guaranteed Satisfaction applies to the new Toyota Cutlass and
the Chrysler Silhouette.

Daren

------------------------------

From: "VanSant, David CWO" <DVanSant@lantd5.uscg.mil>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:01:18 -0300
Subject: ODDS 'N' ENDS

Hello All,

I'm new to this list and have some info to pass.  For those of you
using aftermarket headlight switches from GP SORENSEN, you will be in
for a bit of a surprise.  When installed, you will notice that when you
place you ignition in the "run" position, your parking lights and dash
floods will illuminate.  My local parts house has replaced it for me
three times to no avail and have been unable to get any type of response
from GP's tech line.  Anyone out there have any idea why this is '71 now
has the dreaded DTRL.


Dave Van Sant
dvansant@lantd5.uscg.mil
'71 Topless Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:07:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

> At 12:40 AM 6/16/97 -0400, Charley wrote:
 >In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up
>Oldsmobile's "Edge" package.  I've heard of different people who
>supposedly know everything about them, etc.  Of course, these
>people have never been introduced to me, it's only been "so-and-so
>knows ~everything~ about those cars..."  I've ~seen~ a few "Edge"
>cars, but have no information about what that really means.
>Anybody?????????????????

The Oldsmobile Edge is/was a marketing ploy to sell you on Olds
commitment to quality products (careful - stop penning that nasty
reply about quality)  If memory serves me correctly, it included 3
main parts:
1)  You WILL like your new Olds - if you don't like it, Olds will
give you credit on a new Olds.  You had to return the car within 30
days or 1,500 miles.
2)  A Roadside Assistance program good while the car is in warranty
- Olds will pick-up the car/change the tire/give you gas if you
break down.  Basically a AAA membership.  Gave you a 800 number to
call for service - (800) 242-Olds
3)  (I don't remember, so I'm making  this up) A free rental car
when your Olds is in for service.

This stuff is off the top of my head, but I think that was what's
included.  I'd get the pamphlet out of my 442 and look right now, but
it's home sans interior due to a CD-Changer install 1/2 way done :-(

Mike
'91 W-40 442
'93 W-41 SCX
(The model may be on the Edge of Extinction according to
Dr. Bob, but that couldn't be related to the H.O. Quad 4s being
discontinued a few years ago, now would it???  Decent marketing of
Olds' Mustang eaters in the '90's may have gotten Olds a few more
sales and younger customers - without chasing away the older folks!)

------------------------------

From: MECHWARRIOR2MASTER@prodigy.com ( MAT M NADROFSKY)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:37:46 -0300
Subject: Rocket Origins; was 455

Heheh heh. I like that, the Mechster <BG>
Anyways, sorry for the minorly tainted and unchecked info, although,
all Olds engines after the given year and with the exception a the
<cough> <cough> Ch*vy 30Sludge (305) Well, glad I could help, a
little :)

____
Mat Nadrofsky
70 Olds Cutlass

------------------------------

From: enowacki@titan.com (Erik Nowacki)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:45:24 -0300
Subject: 455 Fuel Injection

Hi All,

This weekend I went to the LA Roadsters show in Pomona, CA.  Great show,
even though there were only Ch*vys & F*rds on exhibit.  Why are there no
Olds street rods around??

Anyhow, there was a swap meet in conjunction with the show and one guy had a
fuel injection setup for a BB Olds for sale.  This was an older style
mechanical injection.  Essentially an intake manifold with injectors for
each cylinder and a regulator box in the center of the manifold.  Air intake
was through individual trumpets for each cylinder (trumpets were missing).
The seller said it was from a race boat.   I have forgotten the name of the
manufacturer, other than it started with an A.  He was asking $400 for it,
which sounded fair, but since I didn't have $400 to spend on a manifold that
may or may not work, I decided to pass on it.  QUESTIONS:  Has anyone heard
of this setup before?  Are they hard to rebuild and setup??  How much are
they worth??  Has anyone seen this work in a car before?

Thankful for any input.

Erik Nowacki
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:58:27 -0300
Subject: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

One of the events the IVOC (Illinois Valley Olds Club)
frequents every year is the car show at Lambs Farm
in Libertyville.  The show this year is this Sunday, 06/22.

Assuming good weather, I will be going this year.  If any
other midwest list members are interested in going here is
the info...

The IVOC members will be meeting before the show between
8:30-9:30am at the Lake Forest Oasis on I-94.  We will
then caravan together to the show so that all the Olds
can park together.

I look forward to seeing some of you there...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:32:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]

Karl,
You can remove that hex nut with an open end wrench, it's klugey, but it
works fine. I've done this many times. I think it's a 5/8's open end, if
not try 9/16's. Good luck
cf


>I had the wheel off today and was able to pull out the 7 inches of cable that
>had broken away. Now how do I remove the rest of it?

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:57:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Fuel Injection

Erik Nowacki wrote:

...and one guy had a fuel injection setup for a BB Olds for sale....an older
style mechanical injection...injectors for each cylinder and a regulator box
in the center of the manifold...individual trumpets for each cylinder
(trumpets were missing)...I have forgotten the name of the manufacturer,
other than it started with an A...QUESTIONS:  Has anyone heard of this setup
before?  Are they hard to rebuild and setup??  How much are they worth??
Has anyone seen this work in a car before?

     ALGON.  I have one in the basement.  I bought it about 15 years ago at
     a swap meet in SoCal for $225.  I've never seen another one like it.
     It is an old-style constant flow mechanical fuel injection system
     (like the Kinsler or Crower units), using a mechanical injector pump
     driven off the front of the motor.

     The manifold is a cast aluminum piece with eight individual
     butterflies on two parallel throttle shafts.  As you have noted, a
     fuel metering valve is mounted in the center of the manifold and
     driven off one of the throttle shafts.  A fuel hose runs to each
     injector nozzle (one in each port) from this valve.  My manifold does
     have the stacks; each is about 10" tall.

     I have been toying with setting this unit up for the street for some
     time, first as a mechanical injection setup and now converted to EFI
     (there are apparently a number of shops which will perform this
     conversion on old mechanical injector setups).  Some of the drawbacks
     which this unit has are:

     No thermostat housing.  There are two threaded ports on the manifold
     which would connect to the water jackets of the heads, but no actual
     location for a t'stat.  I solved this problem by getting a remote
     t'stat housing.

     No vacuum taps.  This was a race-only manifold and thus had no
     provisions for power accessories.  Since my street application would
     have such luxuries, I figured I could plumb a vacuum manifold under
     the intake (sort of like an under-the-manifold nitrous setup) which
     would tie the eight ports together and provide a constant vacuum
     signal.  I figured this would be necessary for the EFI system anyway.

     No accessory mounting provisions.  The usual threaded bosses for
     mounting accessories like the alternator are not present, requiring a
     custom set of mounting brackets.

     None of these are show-stoppers (cash, on the other hand...).  While
     other commitments prevent me from working on this setup right now,
     I'll keep you posted if I ever get anywhere with it.  I had planned to
     build a 65 442 (tubbed, full Pro-Street treatment, injector stacks
     through the hood) around this manifold - I wanted a pre-66 car to make
     sure it would be exempt from any smog test requirements in any state.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:14:21 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

>
> P.S. I have a 425 that cost me $1350 and according to Dick Miller and
> Drag Strip Plus will run very low 12s in a 4100 lb. car! Somebody I work
> with is giving me a '73 Nova which is going to get this motor instead of
> the Dynamic so I should have no problems running 11s since this car is
> almost 1000 lbs. lighter. Now I just got to find a Omega front end.

Should and has are two different things. Wait till you get a time slip to
prove it.
I will refrain from saying anything about my stupidity. But I constantly
see e-mails here that say I just rebuilt my Olds and it is... useing oil...
wont start.... gets hot.... misses and so on maybe some Olds books should
be published.
Oh my Bi monthly rebuild is overdue and I have a stock G.M block so I
better get busy.
Walter

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:31:01 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Right on! When Olds was talking to Isuzu about the Trooper for their SUV, they
 should have been talking to Dodge about a Dakota SUV. Those Darangos are
going to be hot! Midsize, but not Suburban size!

David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com  OR  http://www.en.com/users/thall

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
          ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

Something that didn't make sense to me was that they dropped the 98
because of "lack of sales". If that is so why not drop the Silhouette
and Bravada the 98 out sold both of them. The Silhouette is ugly. The
Bravada is a poor excuse for a luxury suv. Good idea wrong platform
FULL-SIZE! I sat in one about a year ago and found it to be as cramped
as my wife's Grand Am. Not what I'd want in a luxury vehicle.

Daren

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:42:52 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

I'd skip any non SD Pontiac 455 or other engine. From what I understand,
all Pontiac motors have CAST connecting rods. One of the Super Duty's
characteristics is FORGED rods - something every Olds engine (rocket) has,
even the 260! The super tuning manual I have for '71-'72 says all Olds rods
are factory shot peened (extra strength, removes stress risers that could
become cracks). Maybe that's why they look so nice!

David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com  OR  http://www.en.com/users/thall

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
          ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

Ok, time to start some flame wars on the list ;-) Anyway I am looking for
some honest, unbiased opinions from the list on which manufacturer made a
455 with the most potential as a street/strip performer? Putting obvious
Oldsmobile bias aside:-) The top 445 that I can think of for each
manufacturer (I am missing some I know) are the 69 H/O 455, 70 Buick GSX
Stage 1 455, and the 73 Pontiac Trans Am 455 SD. I was mainly looking for
opinions from those on the list that have built, driven or raced the other's
455's.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (Olds442@Rocketship.com)
93 Camaro Z/28...........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 442 W-30........http://www.442.com./labay.htm

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:52:24 -0300
Subject: 1959 Rocket 88

Eytan,

I'm forwarding this to the Oldsmobile Mail List - a great source for
information on this and other Oldsmobiles!

David Brown


Ok everyone, here is a chance to get the correct information about the '59
Rocket 88 on film!! This was originally sent to me on June 11, so that sets
June 21 as Eytan's arrival date.

Please respond with information to Eytan at taneller@inter.net.il


David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com  OR  http://www.en.com/users/thall

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
          ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

Hello David,


I'm writing from Tel Aviv, Israel. I'll be flying to New York in ten days
to attend a film course there. I have been working on a screenplay for a
short film where a 1959 Rocket 88 Oldsmobile will appear.

I am looking for all sorts of information regarding that model such as:

- - the place where it was assembled,
- - horsepower,
- - maximum speed,
- - engine
- - any famous people who owned it,
- - size, etc.

I'm really looking for as much information as possible so I was wondering
if you could help me out on that.

In the meantime, I'm gonna keep on surfing through for more infor.


Looking forward to reading you.


Shalom,


Eytan Heller

------------------------------

From: "SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK" <FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:20:55 -0300
Subject: RE: 84 Cutlass Ciera conv.

Wayne- yes, they are rare. I have only seen one around here and there are 2 on
the internet for sale w/ good pictures. I assume you have the 3.8 engine?
What other options?
How is the cowl shake? It is noticeable with a roof, I can only imagine it
must be worse w/o a roof:-) What color is it?





=============================================================================
Frank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon HL sedan..dohc muffler..K&N drop in..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: "SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK" <FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:52:22 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds 'Edge'

Charley- I have this all over my packet that came w/ my Ciera. It is nothing
more then a marketing scheme. They have 24 hr road service for the first year
or the whole warranty period. I can't remember for sure. Olds is supossed to
treat their customers like kings, thats why it is called the edge. I guess
Olds customers get treated better the other GM owners:-)





=============================================================================
Frank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red sedan..
        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show car)
        95 Plymouth Neon HL sedan..dohc muffler..K&N drop in..(wifes car)
        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: MPHeiser@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:16:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

Hey Jeff,
  Being from Peoria myself and coming back to the Chicago area next month for
a 3 yr tour in the Navy, are there any other shows coming up in late July and
beyond??  I have a 71 Cutlass S in a barn in Princeville, about 20 miles
north of Peoria.  Thanks...


Mark Heiser
mpheiser @aol.com
Virginia Beach, VA

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:40:21 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

 I got a shirt you'd like. It says Chevys SUCK! with Beavis
>and Butthead pissing on a bow-tie got another but has Ford on it.
>

Ooh  Oooh  OOOOO0H!!!!  I ~like~ it!  :)  Are they wearing anything that
has the @Olds symbol on it?  Just a thought...



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:57:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

At 12:07 PM 6/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
>> At 12:40 AM 6/16/97 -0400, Charley wrote:
> >In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up
>>Oldsmobile's "Edge" package.

 < < < S N I P > > >

Nobody's hit it yet :(  The Edge that I'm talking about was ~not~ a service
option.  I've personally seen two of the cars, one being an '80 (I have a
pic somewhere) and the other being late 80's FWD.  The 80 had a chrome
"Edge" script on the rear of each fender.  The FWD had a rear wing with
tips, and "EDGE" in pinstripe graphics at the rocker area (pretty hard to
explain, and I didn't have a camera around)  Supposedly these people in
question have the ability to cite exactly how many "Edge" cars were made,
and exactly what it means.  One of these people is in Glasgow, MT, I guess,
and the other is in Sidney ~somewhere~... Hopefully I'll bump into him.
The guy in Sidney said the Edge package had a broad chrome panel over the
C-pillars and across the roof.  Actually it's more of a brushed aluminum,
fromt the ones I'd seen.  This was on the late 70's and 1980 version, I
guess.  I have no idea if/when others were made.

Ring any bells?  This is an interesting mystery Olds point that appears to
be stumping many.  (Well, ~me~ anyway! :)



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:02:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Innovations in the 30's

>One of the examples was the 1938 Oldsmobile, which had a *vaccuum* controlled
>radio.  As the car's speed increased, or when the driver stomped the pedal
>for hard acceleration, the radio's volume automatically increased.
>Conversely, as the car slowed, the volume was decreased.

WOW!  If I could find one of ~those~ I could get rid of my remote control!  :)
I've heard of other manufacturers trying that recently, too.  Except using
electronic technology.  Never seen it implemented.  Kinda went along with
the ~reverse phase road noise elimination~ program thing, where they took
audio samples from inside the cab, electronically phased them 180' out, and
played the samples through the speakers.  Supposedly it was pretty
impressive, but highly impractical.  I'd read an article or two a few years
ago, but never saw any production figures.



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
             500 4th Ave.          | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
             Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass ~Dead 425~
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "FAST FWD" (Soon)   | '67 Toronado 425
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:58:55 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

At 11:22 AM 6/16/97 -0300, Daren & Laurie wrote:
>> Whew....  Finally a voice of reason.  Man, I'm gone for a couple days, and
>> everyone starts praising ch*vy's!  What's goin' on here?  :)
>> Hmmmm....
>>

>The sad think is I only listed a few things wrong with these inferior
>engines. Chevy's are designed to be cheap entry level cars and thats
>what you get. I got a shirt you'd like. It says Chevys SUCK! with Beavis
>and Butthead pissing on a bow-tie got another but has Ford on it.

Hmm, I originally asked about the B, O, P engines and naturally the chevy
engines come in to get thrashed on ;-) My 88 Iroc-Z was a cheap entry level
car. I mean it only had 150,000+ miles on it with only the steering pump
ever going bad. Sisters 87 Impala has 223,000 with only the water pump
replaced after it sat for 2 years. My dad's towing company has Chevy trucks
as towtrucks and some are approaching 200-250k of very strenuous loads on
the engine...no major problems. I could go on and on with examples of cheap
entry level pieces of junk outlasting alot of Oldsmobiles but I won't.  As
for performance, I run 13.4 at the track with a Z that weighs more and has a
small block 350 with only a few minor bolt on mods while a close to stock 69
H/O can only run 13.8 and we both had modern street tires. Pretty hard to
find an engine Olds ever made that could match the technology of the
LT1...granted GM killed the chances for them or I am sure the Olds 350 would
be just as advanced today. Ok of my Chevy trip.....hadn't had one in awhile
and feel like being flamed ;-)

I am an Olds enthusiast through and through and will always be. I just
repsect Chevy, as I do all other car makes..even Frod ;-) ;-) Aren't we all
in this togehter anyway?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (Olds442@Rocketship.com)
93 Camaro Z/28...........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 442 W-30........http://www.442.com./labay.htm

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:59:03 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

At 02:14 PM 6/16/97 -0300, jones wrote:

>
>Should and has are two different things. Wait till you get a time slip to
>prove it.
>I will refrain from saying anything about my stupidity. But I constantly
>see e-mails here that say I just rebuilt my Olds and it is... useing oil...
>wont start.... gets hot.... misses and so on maybe some Olds books should
>be published.

Say it isn't so......an Olds engine never does that ;-)

>Oh my Bi monthly rebuild is overdue and I have a stock G.M block so I
>better get busy.

Yeah, me too. Better get the tools out. Damn inferior products ;-) haha
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (Olds442@Rocketship.com)
93 Camaro Z/28...........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 442 W-30........http://www.442.com./labay.htm

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:00:43 -0300
Subject: Re: ralley rims

At 11:20 PM 6/15/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I just bought a '69 442 around Christmas.  I am trying to get it back to
>spec.  It came with the original factory build sheet which said it came
>with ralley wheels, which are no longer with the car.  Does anyone out
>there have a set of 4 in good shape?  PLease let me know if so.
>--
>Daniel R. Gerow
>WSHL-FM 91.3 Stonehill College Radio
>------------------------------------
>http://www2.stonehill.edu/wshl
>------------------------------------
>Homepage: http://www2.stonehill.edu/~dgerow
>

Daniel

        Which Super Stock wheels do you need? SSI or SSII's? We have (2)
14X6 SSI's for a 69 ($40.00 ea), but no SSII's right now. We do have the
14x7 SSII's for the 70-74 cars ($160.00 set of 4). Please let us know what
you need.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:03:51 -0300
Subject: Re: ralley rims

At 07:44 AM 6/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
>MROTHE wrote:
>>
>> Check with James Chermack at chermac@exis.net
>>
>> He usually has a good selection of rallye wheels.  But the rallyes that
>> came on the 69's are 14 X 6 inch wide  (skinny) ones.  You could
>> probably upgrade to 70-up styles that would get you 7" wide or better
>> for some wider tread tires.....just an idea.  I'm not just plugging for
>> Jim C. here, you can check hemmings, and others on the list. And the
>> Bryceman's Olds page classifieds at www.442.com
>>
>> I just know if Jim doesn't have it, he usually knows where to get it.
>> Of course it makes a difference if they are the P05 (skinny chrome
>> spoke) or N66 (painted spoke) option.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike Rothe
>
>Did they ever make 15x8 rims? If so, I'd like to know how to get a pair.
>
>--
>**********************************
>Matt Cremean

Matt,

        They didn't make Super Stock wheels in a 15x8 from the factory but
there is a company that will make up to 15x10 if you want. They are
Specialty Wheel LTD.  in Sandy OR. Their number is (503) 668-4793. Hope this
helps.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: "Wayne L. Craven" <wlcsales@tir.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:15:25 -0300
Subject: RE: 84 Cutlass Ciera conv.

Frank,

Thanks for the return e-mail.  Appreciate hearing from you.

Where could I find the 84 Ciera's converts on the net you mentioned for
sale.

My convert is white W/burgundy interior and leather seats and a white top.

The engine is a 3.0 W/Carburetor.  Full power and original except for the
sound system.

Average around 3000 mile on her each summer.  Great for those week-end get
aways.

Keep in touch,

Wayne



========== REPLY PARTITION ===========

On 06/16/97, at 03:20 PM, SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK wrote:

>Wayne- yes, they are rare. I have only seen one around here and there are
2 on
>the internet for sale w/ good pictures. I assume you have the 3.8 engine?
>What other options?
>How is the cowl shake? It is noticeable with a roof, I can only imagine it
>must be worse w/o a roof:-) What color is it?
>
>
>
>
>
>===========================================================================
==
>Frank.. 90 Cutlass Ciera XC Special Edition..one of 955.. White/red
sedan..
>        K&N, Walker Dynomax exhaust....(driver)
>        65 El Camino..327/300, black/red..frame off resto..(cruiser, show
car)
>        95 Plymouth Neon HL sedan..dohc muffler..K&N drop in..(wifes car)
>        95 Dodge Ram 2500hd 4x4..v-10..(company truck)
>===========================================================================
==
>
>

------------------------------

From: Paul Brillhart <u17058@uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:34:46 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

>Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@CHEBUCTO.NS.CA>
>Date:   Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:42:52 -0300
>From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>I'd skip any non SD Pontiac 455 or other engine. From what I understand,
>all Pontiac motors have CAST connecting rods. One of the Super Duty's
>characteristics is FORGED rods - something every Olds engine (rocket) has,
>even the 260! The super tuning manual I have for '71-'72 says all Olds rods
>are factory shot peened (extra strength, removes stress risers that could
>become cracks). Maybe that's why they look so nice!
>
>David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
>


  You're correct on the rods.  However, I've only seen one person break a
rod and he was a birik head running a fogger nitros setup. All rods are the
same length.  Pontiac varied the distance from the center of the pin to the
piston top for different blocks.  1950's era rods were froged, but some mods
must be made and it get's messy.  Eagle makes an "H" beam forged rod for
$680 in Jegs.

All Pontiac 428 and 455 blocks are drilled and taped for 4 bolt mains.  Only
a few come with four bolt mains though, but my uncle bought a set of 4140
mains and had the block align honed.  Not expensive, and very stable.

Also Pontiac had a wide range of heads from the "D" port to full on "O"
ports for all out competition available. Very large valves after '66 are the
norm, up to 2.25 and 1.78(? not sure of last digit).

Compression was controlled with the head chambers.

The valves are adjustable with screw in studs from the factory.

More importantly, ALL GTO engines came with 5 QUART OIL PANS!

Cranks ranged from cast to Arma steel and nodular.  Forged cranks are hard
to find, but how many street fighters crack nodular cranks?

Three dueces manifolds are easy to come by.  Like Olds, the bolting pattern
changed.  For Pontiac, any heads before 1964 need a pre '64 manifold.  The
mechanical setup on the Olds responds better than the vacuum setup on the
Pontiac.  The standard high rise manifolds from the factory without the
polution control b.s. are great.  They are also much narrower than the Olds.

Headers are easy to install.  Headman, Hooker, and Blackjack go on a '66
four speed without bending.  Also, the factory exhausts can be had in a
large, more free flowing configuration from '67 on in the GTO's.  No siamese
exhaust ports like the center two on the Olds.

The 350 Pontiac is a worthless piece of junk.  It is basically a de-bored
big block.  Long stroke and heavy block.....B.S.

The range of blocks and heads produced by Pontiac is much wider than Olds or
Buick.  Except for the rods, which I've never had a problem with, they are
nice, friendly motors with a lot of interchangeability between them.

Don't get me wrong, I love my '65 442, but I've never had any problems with
big block Pontiacs and only have good memories of them.




  Later.


  Paul Brillhart
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chi-kwan Chau                         | Voice: (312) 413-0460
Dept. of Mechanical Eng. (m/c 251)    | Fax:   (312) 413-0447
The University of Illinois at Chicago | E-mail: CChau1@uic.edu
842 West Taylor Street, Room 2064 ERF |
Chicago, IL 60607-7022                |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "CDHall" <cdhall@carol.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:06:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 SX for sale

> From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 70 SX for sale
> Date: Sunday, June 15, 1997 11:53 PM
>
> OK everyone!  Tomorrow (6/16) I'm going to look at a 69 442 parts car.
> The guy also mentioned he had a 70 Cutlass "something" for sale, $1400.
> He said it looked like there was a "little box with SS" next to the
> Cutlass badge.  I asked if it was "SX" and he said that it probably was,
> he wasn't sure.  I don't know the shape it's in, but if the car has been
> around here, (SC) all its life, and not smashed, it should have minimal
> rust.  If anyone is interested in it, I will do a more thorough check on
> the car than my usual scan-over.  I know this is short notice, but the
> guy just returned my call about 15 minutes ago.
>
> Mike Rothe
>


  Daniel Hall
  cdhall@carol.net

Where in South Carolina is the car? I would be very interested in checking
it out as I also have a 70 SX . I an located near Anderson.

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:28:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

> "Hmmm...  Let's see...  This is 1997.  It's the 100th anniversary of
> Oldsmobile.  The 1998 models are due out this fall.  We could build a
> limited edition 1998 '98!"
>
> "Naw.  Let's build Toyotas."
>
>     66 Toro
> The /\   /\ and Mike
You sure hit the nail on the head with that one. Why build something
different when they can just make another jellybean lookalike and people
will buy them by the millions. Look at the Tortoise (Taurus) ........ That
had to be the worst body style since the Edsel and people made it a best
selling car. So what did Ford do? They made it even uglier and made the
Escort look like it too.
Walter

------------------------------

From: "Jon" <latvis@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:32:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 455

All engines that are not equipped with over-head camshafts have pushrods.

As for the tranny fluid, if there is none on your dip stick, then (at
least) a quart should do it.  If it's only slightly past the full mark,
then there should be no problem; remember to check the fluid level when
your car is on a flat, horizontal surface.

Jon Gulbis
'85 Cutlass Supreme

- ----------
> From: Jonathan Look <bu343@yfn.ysu.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 455
> Date: sv=E7tdiena, 1997. gada 15. j=FBnijs 14:49
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi, thanks for answering.  I'e heard so many different
> versions of what a rocket is.  I was on a web page with the
> oldsmobile FAQ that said something about a Rocket has pushrods
> or some such thing (I don't know a lot about cars)
>=20
> Well, thanks fo clearing it up.
>=20
> Oh, incidently, are there any serious problems
> that could arise if someone were to put a bit too much
> transmition fluid in?
> I checked it a few days ago and it didn't
> even show up on the stick, so I figured that a quart would do jus
> fine.
> now it's way past the full mark.
>=20
>=20
> later,
> jon
>=20
>=20
> --
> *****************************************************************
> There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
> *There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
> *****************************************************************
>=20

------------------------------

From: "Adam Armstrong" <lwa@MNSi.Net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:52:36 -0300
Subject: I need pictures for my page

I have a webpage at Geocities.  Problem is I need some pictures.  If you
would like to add a picture of your 78-87 Cutlass to my page send me
email.

Thanks.

The one and only
Adam Armstrong
from Tupperville, Ontario.
aka "BigCaddy"

------------------------------

From: "Jon" <latvis@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:57:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

There is a big difference between marketing (the popularity of a product)=
,
and quality, which is what you are referring to.  A classic example is th=
e
Chevy vs. Olds 350's.  Olds made a much stronger block than Chevy with
higher nickel content, the Olds engine has more torque; when comparing th=
e
two, each has its good and bad pionts, but in the end Olds comes out ahea=
d
(In my opinion).  When I tell people that I want to drop a 350 into my '8=
5
Cutlass, people automatically assume that I mean Chevy, and when I correc=
t
them, they sometimes give me the strangest looks and ask me why I would
want an Oldsmobile motor?  It's all due to marketing, pick up any Hot Rod
magazine, and all you see is Chevy, Ford or Chrysler.  There are even
make-specific magazines for these cars that you can find at most
news-stands; when is the one for Oldsmobile coming out?

Jon Gulbis
'85 Cutlass Supreme=20

- ----------
> From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
> Date: sv=E7tdiena, 1997. gada 15. j=FBnijs 22:30
>=20
> Mike Frederick wrote:
> >=20
> > Thought you might be interested in this:
> >=20
> > My daughter just called me to wish me a happy Father's Day.  Adrienne
is
> > a marketing grad student at Texas A&M.  Seems she' been very busy
> > preparing for a lecture she has to give to the undergrads on failed
> > marketing schemes.  One on the case studies: Oldsmobile!  I've asked
her
> > to forward her stuff to me -- should make for interesting discussions.
> >=20
> > (I've also recommended that she send her resume to Olds this coming
> > spring when she graduates.)
> >=20
> >     66 Toro
> > The /\   /\ and Mike
> >=20
> > --
> > Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
> >      Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
> >      (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
> As I remember, the market study should have been on someone other than
> Olds.  You go back and look at the truly ugly and gawd-awful vehicles,
> most of them were other than Olds ancestry.  Anyone who remembers the
> early-mid 70s to early 80's know what I refer to. What junk!  My 69
> Cutlass would outrun, outpack and get better gas mileage than about
> anything during that time period.  The only thing it didn't do well was
> stop quickly.  It just didn't like quitting.  Enough fun, got to get
> back to work.  You should be proud of your daughter, and tell her so.=20
> They are ours for too short a time.  My daughters have already discusse=
d
> who gets what when I'm gone.  The problem they have is I don't plan on
> going anytime soon.  My youngest one, the self described car nut, wants
> the 69 Cutlass S conv and the 72 Hurst w/sunroof.  My oldest daughter
> wants the 70 Cutlass Supreme conv and the 71 GS455 conv.  I hope I live
> long enough to get them restored for them.  As I am 48 now, I better ge=
t
> moving.=20
>=20
> Later; work and financial advisor (wife) are calling me.
>=20
> Don
>=20

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª721
********************************
