
oldsmobile-digest        Monday, July 21 1997        Volume 01 : Number 765



Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)
Rearview Mirror
Re: Overheating!!!!
Re: SB 42 & Calif Smog
Re: Smog Adventure
Re: CHROME
Re: Rearview Mirror
Re: R-12 to R-134a
Re: Smog Adventure
RE: Rearview Mirror
Re: CHROME
Re: Rearview Mirror
'66 Toro/'76 Delta 88
68 442
Oil pressure
Shipping A Rear Window
67 rearend
Engine swaps, etc  (LONG)
R406a
Re: All I wanted to do was KEEP my wheels...
Re: Wanted 68 442 parts....
Re: Shipping A Rear Window
Re: Smog Adventure
Re: Wanted 68 442 parts....
Re: 68 442
62 Starfire /Car Cruise/ Third Place Winner
W-31 Harmonic Balancers
Re: seat back paint?
Elderly Rocket Drivers
R-12 Alternatives
Re: Oil pressure
Re: Smog Adventure
advice needed 
Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> 
Re: Elderly Rocket Drivers
Re: Hurst package
Car Show Sightings  (Long)
Re: Hurst package
Re: Car Show Sightings  (Long)
Re: seat back paint?
Re: R-12 Alternatives (LONG)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:19:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)

Greetings from the infamous Chi-town.

For those of you who have noticed my absence. I am on the digest until
further notice. 

The reason for this is my inherent luck (read as dubious future. nuff said?).
I have begun to use Chicago's public transportation as conveyance work. I am
reminded of the eminent Dr. Bob's Eletter of a few days ago where he
referenced something about operating costs "(read as gasoline costs)" [not to
mention motor oil for an engine that desperately needs an overbore and thus
oil gets dirtier faster {likely gasoline ang other combustiuon products
dissolved in the oil} and needs changing almost monthly]. My (as I have
recently learned) _high compression_ BB's operating costs is something on the
order of U.S. $30 a week (work and all, [daily driver for those who have not
yet met me]). On the other hand, CTA (to the theme of "YMCA"- ride CTA,
you-could-get-mugged-if-you ride CTA - credit to Rich Koz, aka the "Son of
Svengoolie") fares run me something more like $18 (part of which is change
and therefore does not really count). Read this as a penny saved is an Offy
Tunnel Ram earned, or at best, odds of my appearing at lansing increased.

As for those of  you all not on the digest; there are advantages and
disadvantages. 

Advantage; as reported to me by one other person (whose name escapes my
pitiful memory at this moment, but a general thanks goes his way, because it
is not as bad as I might have thought) the majordomo kicks out approximately
one or more a day and so they can be generally separated by day. Furthermore,
the inherent AOL delays confounded real time participation; I would recieve
solutions ahead of the question in my mailbox. 

Disadvantages; I find myself deprived of the privilege of deleting messages
that I recognise as superfluous (such as questions that have already been
answered by the time that I garner Email). This is particularly distressing
when I come upon Emessages by authors who are renowned for their case
insensitivity (if you do not know who you are then that makes only one out of
the volume of people who are reading this [sarcasm is COD, payable in
flesh]).

Back to advantages; I can go through a digest edition in about 15 minutes.
Not bad!

Disadvantages; to save pithy Emails, I have to delete everything else and
save the resultant text file (digests unzip into text files).

On to the Oldsmobile pith of this missive. My recent communiques with D.
Kitchener generate the following question. 

What is the difference between the 4GC (years up to 1965) and the Quadradet
(1966 on) ? Further, why are Qjets better (if at all) than 4GC?

P.S. The web page is constantly being updated but for some odd reason AOL
does its best to try to crash whenever I work on it.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA
  
  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html
  
  (witticism)
  
 Gee, you'd think that with this much time off I would come up with something
pithy.

Na strovya.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:50:49 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Rearview Mirror

I've been looking for a rearview mirror with map light for my 69 Cutlass
rag top (442).  Mirror must be clear and not discolored.......or can
someone tell me if mirrors can be rebuilt with fresh glass and where?

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:00:00 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: Overheating!!!!

At 10:01 AM 7/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Congratulations on your new acquisition.  As for your overheating problem,
>since the overheating seems to occur at speed and you have a new radiator,
>it seems to indicate inadequate coolant flow.  I would check the radiator
>hoses to see if they have colapsed.  Otherwise, I would replace the
>waterpump and hoses.
>
>Other sources of overheating could be that your timing is off, but I don't
>know if that would be severe enough to cause it to overheat even with a 4
>core radiator.
>
>My 72 Vista Cruiser with factory 455 and HD cooling package rarely breaks
>170 on a 100 degree day in San Diego.
>
>Erik Nowacki
>1972 Vista Cruiser
>
>
>
>
>> The overheating seems to be the greatest at or above 55 m.p.h. / On a 90
>>degree day water temp. will rise to around 230 degrees. At 80 degrees at
>>night it runs around 215 degrees. Seems to hang around 190 to 200 in town.
>>I've replaced the aftermarket 3 core radiator with a 4 core and it did'nt
>>help a thing. There are 2 electric fans in front of the radiator and
>>needless to say, I run them almost all the time. 160 t-stat is working. I'm
>>leaning towards pulling the rearend and putting an Olds rearend with 2:57
>>gears. Any questions, comments or concerns would be appreciated. Thanks, Don
>>
>>
>>
>
Don,
  I have a '67 cutlass that has a 330ci that had similar heating problems.
After much research and tinkering it finally got down to the fact I had a 
timing problem.In fact I had to change the timing belt and gears!After the 
change I noticed a dramatic increase in power(duh!).So much,in fact,I'm 
going to change the parts in my '67 442 also.
Fred Kemp

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 07:09:15 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: SB 42 & Calif Smog

Erick - we get regular updates via the internet - I'll have the other half
forward you the address to receive these if you wish.

You can find a link at thiss address:
http://exo.com/~jht/truck/
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '69 Toronado 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:04:02 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Smog Adventure

Don Sowers wrote:
> 
> Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
> >
> > Mike Frederick wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan Lacey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Frustrated and ONLY buying pre 1966 cars from now on...
> > >
> > > Move.  In Florida, the rules start with the 1975 model year.  :)
> > >
> > >     66 Toro
> > > The /\   /\ and Mike
> >
> > Come to Alabama.  No one knows the rules or cares.
> >
> > Bill Culp
> > Decatur, Alabama
> >
> > P.S.  Possibly we can't read them!
> Bill,
> 
> Thought about you as I went past the Decatur exit going to and from Fla
> last week and waved.   There sure is a
> lot of nice people down in Alabama.
> 
> Later,
> 
> Don

Don,

Just like many of you, I have lived & traveled in many parts of this
country.  As much as I enjoy "where I'm at", there are such wonderful
people everyhwere I've been.  This is one neat world.  No matter how
poor the reputation of an area, I have never failed to have such a great
time that I have always wanted to return some day.

I lived at Ft Sill, OK for a while & learned to enjoy the cowboys &
native Americans just like Teddy Roosevelt.  The Mexican Americans of El
Passo were so friendly & helpful that I could have been right here at
home rather than so far off.  LA & San Francisco lay out the welcome mat
to just about every weird traveler known to man on a daily basis. 
Seattle is a refreshing outdoors town that just demands that you enjoy
nature & man.  Ft. Riley/Junction City, KS is just like being home. 
Chicago just begs to be enjoyed. the small towns of IN grow the nations
crops all day & still have time to sit down w/a stranger.  NY City never
fails to delight any taste & is friendly & helpful to boot.  WVA & KY
has a ruggedness on the surface that is always combined w/a nice smile
for everyone.  FL can't seem to help inviting everyone from everywhere
to just enjoy paradise. Boston & Providence just reek confidence &
solidarity that is so soothing & comfortable.

I could go on & on, but you know those Oldsmobiles & their gas mileage. 
My gas card just couldn't stand much more.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama 

P.S. I can't wait to get to Lansing.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:13:51 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: CHROME

At 08:35 AM 7/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Charles F. Kemp wrote:> >Hello Mike,
>>   I am interested in finding both bumpers for a 1967 442. I saw in you ad you
>> had a set for a 1966 F-85. I'm thinking these would do fine if I could afford
>> them.Also, am looking for a hood for the '67 442.Thanks for any info.
>> Fred Kemp
>
>66 bumpers are NOT the same as 67's, due to the headlights. Totally
>different part # as well.
>-- 
>
>-----------------------------------------
>      Dan Hamlett
>      1966 Cutlass Convertible
>      1995 Cutlass Supreme SL
>      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
>      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
>-----------------------------------------
>Dan,
 Well, I guess I missed that one!Thanks for the info and now that I think 
about it,I knew that,but well,you know.
Fred Kemp

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:12:18 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Rearview Mirror

Wayne Schwartz wrote:
> 
> I've been looking for a rearview mirror with map light for my 69 Cutlass
> rag top (442).  Mirror must be clear and not discolored.......or can
> someone tell me if mirrors can be rebuilt with fresh glass and where?
> 
> Wayne

Wayne,

Mirrors can be resilvered at many glass shops.  The trick is in getting
the mirrors apart.  The glass shops may know how that is done also.  I
haven't tried this suggestion as yet & must get at it.

These mirrors are getting a little rare in good condition.  Price is a
little high also.  I am going to try to save my mirrors.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:27:45 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: R-12 to R-134a

At 02:42 PM 7/19/97 EDT, you wrote:
>A few weeks ago there was some email exchanged about an R-12 to R-134a
>conversion someone did.  Well, I would like to know more.  I have
>purchased, for the ~other car~, a new compressor (which came with R-134a
>oil, hmmmm) and a new reciever/drier (which is both R-12 and R-134a
>compatible).  Since I will be opening the system and replacing these
>parts anyway, I figured I *mightaswell* change it over to R-134a, if
>possible.  I know the charge fittings (Schraeder-type valves) are
>different, and the R-12/R-134a oils are incompatible; what else do I need
>to change?  The two pages of instructions that came with the compressor
>highly recommend installing an in-line filter; is this necessary?   
>
>Olds content -- the A/C in my Olds hasn't worked in over ten years. 
>Pretty pathetic, huh?  When I fix it, maybe I'll convert it to R-134a,
>too.  Mightaswell...
>
>Please reply to me privately if you feel your response would not be
>appropriate for the list.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
>Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@juno.com


Dave,
  A mechanic friend of mine says one of the first considerations you have to
take before conversion is the differences in the capabilities of the refridge-
rents.Translate:in a lot of cases the condenser size for the R-12 car is not 
sized correctly for the R-134a needs.
Fred Kemp
  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:37:04 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Smog Adventure

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
 Boston & Providence just reek confidence &
> solidarity that is so soothing & comfortable.
> 
> I could go on & on, but you know those Oldsmobiles & their gas mileage.
> My gas card just couldn't stand much more.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
> 
> P.S. I can't wait to get to Lansing.

Everyone,

I want to delete everything I said about Boston.  I forgot that Tim
Churchill has not been so friendly to the Southern cause or to Southern
citizens.

I stand by everything else that I said although I should have mentioned
those wonderful people in automobile land (MI).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:01:18 -0400
From: urbanch <urbanch@magi.com>
Subject: RE: Rearview Mirror

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC94FE.12D22FE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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I may have one for you Wayne. Send me your email address and I'll have a look.

- ----------
From: 	Wayne Schwartz
Sent: 	Sunday, July 20, 1997 9:50 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Rearview Mirror

I've been looking for a rearview mirror with map light for my 69 Cutlass
rag top (442).  Mirror must be clear and not discolored.......or can
someone tell me if mirrors can be rebuilt with fresh glass and where?

Wayne



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:13:43 -0500
From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Subject: Re: CHROME

Charles F. Kemp wrote:> >-----------------------------------------
> >Dan,
>  Well, I guess I missed that one!Thanks for the info and now that I think
> about it,I knew that,but well,you know.
> Fred Kemp

It'a an easy one to miss.  I've been looking for 66 bumpers for some
time now , and so many 66-7 parts can be interchanged, but bumpers ,
tailights , headlight bezels etc are different.
- -- 

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      1995 Cutlass Supreme SL
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:45:58 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Rearview Mirror

urbanch wrote:
> 
> I may have one for you Wayne. Send me your email address and I'll have a look.
> 
> ----------
> From:   Wayne Schwartz
> Sent:   Sunday, July 20, 1997 9:50 AM
> To:     oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:        Rearview Mirror
> 
> I've been looking for a rearview mirror with map light for my 69 Cutlass
> rag top (442).  Mirror must be clear and not discolored.......or can
> someone tell me if mirrors can be rebuilt with fresh glass and where?
> 
> Wayne
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Schwartz
e mail address

wschwart@IAW.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:17:28 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: '66 Toro/'76 Delta 88

The Blade, Toledo, Ohio:

OLDS '66 Toronado, 45,000 mi.
good shape, $3000 or best offer
no rust, needs paint. (419) 242-1824

OLDS 76 DELTA 88
NEW TIRES, RUNS GREAT!!!
Good go to work car $400 (419) 693-1199

Just thought you might be interested.....

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:39:04 -0400
From: KIMBERLY KLEMENT <JONKIM@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 68 442

i have a 68 442 teck pages said 7th digit is assembly plant my 7th vin
is E no plants listed for E.full vin # is 344878E140205.also looking for
68 400 engine any ideas were to look (cheep).i purchased mine with a 78
403cid orig engine long gone. john

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: SAdelstein@aol.com
Subject: Oil pressure

I was wondering does anybody know what the normal operating oil presuure is
supposed to be for a 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile with a 350 engine with a 2
barrel carbeurator in P.S.I. Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:50:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: adamco@infowest.com
Subject: Shipping A Rear Window

Can someone help me with shipping a rear window for my '53 Super 88?  I
found one back in South Dakota, but don't know how to ship it here, in
St.George,Utah.  The first one we tried to ship was broken by UPS.  Luckily
he had another.  Is it easier to truck it here or ship it here?  I also
need it to be reasonably priced.  I would love any info on shipping it any
way.

Youngin'
'53 Super 88

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:44:38 -0400
From: Ken <olds442@en.com>
Subject: 67 rearend

I've got a 1967 442 10 bolt rearend.  It has 3.55:1 richmond gears. 
It looks different than any posi unit I have ever seen.  No clutches or
springs.  The carrier has a small window in one side.  Looks like 4
spider gears are jammed in there somehow. Anyone ever seen one of these?

Ken

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 1997 12:12:06 PST
From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Subject: Engine swaps, etc  (LONG)

OL>Aside from the fact that my 1978 Electra (same chassis as your 88, just
OL>longer in wheelbase) came with a 403, I decided to stick with one due to the
OL>emissions laws becoming stricter and stricter. If it wasn't for that, I'd
OL>have gone with a 425 or 455. I still may later on, if they loosen up the
OL>regulations for older cars (or if my 403 starts to have a constant appetite
OL>for head gaskets).

If I could find a 455 block in our salvage yards here, I would use it.
I can find a 260 TOO easy though :P  Out here people are trying to do
the same thing for emissions..  but the smog rules here are pretty
complex..  I'll explain.  You cannot add an engine that was not offered
in CA or a heavy-duty application.  BUT if that engine block is the same
configuration as your old one (like a olds 350 and a 455, just different
deck heights) it could be considered a replacment engine and you
wouldn't have to go to a referee station to get it "checked"..  The
engine must pass the smog requirments for the model year and engine type
In my case, a 350 with the CA smog package, 4bbl.

OL>I think that's the best factory setup you could have; probably the same as
OL>what would be used on a 403-equipped version of your car. I have what is
OL>probably the same factory setup on my 9.5:1 403, and the cooling is
OL>adequate, if not spectacular. With a new fan clutch, new radiator and water
OL>pump, all-new hoses and thermostat, and a 3-year old heater core (not
OL>significant for summer cooling), I run a high of 210' when the temperature
OL>is above 95'. If the temp is below 85', though, it runs right on the 180'
OL>thermostat. It may start to run at more than 210' on the hottest of days,
OL>now that I have the A/C in working condition (for the first time in ages).
OL>But as I mentioned in another post, that would still be in the operating
OL>range for this motor. You just have to watch the heat extra-careful in a
OL>403, since the cylinder walls are so close together, and concentrated heat
OL>in those areas, combined with high cylinder pressures, can blow out head
OL>gaskets (not fatal, but a pain nonetheless).

Okay, that's GOOD to hear :)  The hottest my 350 has ran was about 230
or so, but that was because the felt intake gaskets were cracked and
letting air in past the carbureator.  Hottest it has ran is about 210
now.

OL>I need to add a tranny cooler, and may add an oil cooler, with each located
OL>in the cavity behind the front bumper, so that the heat from these coolers
OL>doesn't just get pumped back into the radiator. I'm also planning on venting
OL>the underhood air, but I'm not sure what kind of vents to use, or where to
OL>place them. I've considered the hood corners in the back near the
OL>windshield, where the natural flow of the air through the engine compartment
OL>would seem to want to exit, but I haven't gone to the junkyard to
OL>investigate what kind of holes I'd have to cut to mount, say, some of those
OL>newer Grand Prix hood vents. I'd love to make the portholes on the sides of
OL>my front fenders functional, but they're not in a good spot :(

In the JC whitney catalog, I saw a combo tranny/oil cooler for about
$120 or so, I think you could use the oil filter base off the diesel
engine because it has the bosses already on it.

OL>>Pick-your-Part in Hayward, California:
OL>>
OL>>Engine assembly (complete) $149.95 w/o warranty, $194.95 with
OL>>  "        "    (short block)  $62.95

OL>Definitely go with the shortblock, without the warranty. In a rebuild,
OL>you're replacing everything but the block, crank and rods, so don't pay for
OL>what you wouldn't use.

Will do.  Every penny I save helps greatly also

OL>>Transmission, TH350/400        $36.95
OL>>Rearend, 8.5" GM 10 bolt       $62.95

OL>Those sound like good prices. I paid $60 for a core 403 to rebuild while I
OL>still drove the Electra. I can't believe the transmissions are so cheap! And
OL>is that for a posi rear axle?

Not sure, I know the price for the rearend is from brake rotor to rotor,
I don't think they care at this place.

OL>One thing to ponder; a rebuilt 350 would have fewer cubic inches, but a
OL>higher rpm range at which it could safely make power. If you want the
OL>absolute in reliability, you could get the same amount of hp from a 350 as
OL>you would a 403, just that you'd have to spin it about 500-1000rpm higher to
OL>do so, and worry less about weak main webs and blown head gaskets,
OL>especially if you started with a pre-'77 block. In addition, you can get
OL>high-compression pistons for a 350 much cheaper than the full-custom
OL>high-compression 403 pistons ($300, vs. $650, approx). Just something to
OL>think about, if you could live with either less power, or want stiffer gears
OL>to make the same power.

Heh, ANY power increase from what I have now would be a big difference
:)  I can get gears but I like freeway driving also..  too many
decisions

OL>I don't want to give you the wrong impression; I'm happy with my 403. There
OL>are just some compromises involved, and I wanted you to be able to take them
OL>into consideration.

I understand, I need to review all options before I settle on something,
or else I may regret it in the long-term.

Mike Jones
78 88 2Dr.

sorry for the bandwith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:06:54 EDT
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: R406a

Sorry about this folks...someone replied to my R12 to R134a conversion
question with some info about R406a, and I was a bit too quick with the
delete button.  Could whomever that was resend their message to me
privately?  Thanks..


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:14:26 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: All I wanted to do was KEEP my wheels...

PaulP34167@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-07-19 17:14:01 EDT, you write:
> 
> > 1) Does my car really have 1/2" studs or are they something like 12mm?
> >  2) Am I just buying cheap nuts that expand when heated?
> 
> My 84 C*m*ro has metric studs.  I would assume your Olds would too.
> 

Yes, the ones on my '84 H/O are 12mm.

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:15:23 -0500
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: Wanted 68 442 parts....

On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:38:08 -0400 "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
writes:
snip>
>I got to agree James I love having my 1970 Cutlass Convertible Beat 5
>Litre's and Bow-ties.  No one ever suspects a 13 second Convertible 
>OLDS
>
>Robert Schinkel 
>
I have personally seen a Cutlass Convertible (70 model) That runs 10's/
11's. I drool every time I think of it !!
Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:46:20 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Shipping A Rear Window

adamco@infowest.com wrote:
> 
> Can someone help me with shipping a rear window for my '53 Super 88?  I
> found one back in South Dakota, but don't know how to ship it here, in
> St.George,Utah.  The first one we tried to ship was broken by UPS.  Luckily
> he had another.  Is it easier to truck it here or ship it here?  I also
> need it to be reasonably priced.  I would love any info on shipping it any
> way.
> 
> Youngin'
> '53 Super 88

How about going to your local glass dealer/installer & ask how they do
it?  Possibly the fellow in SD can go to his local glass dealer & ship
through them the way they do it?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:51:31 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Smog Adventure

How ARE you guys faring with H-Cane Daniel?  Hope you're not too close &
that your cars are safe (hey worry about the important things first, ya know?)

Here its just teh same hot & dull summer.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '69 Toronado 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:24:50 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: Wanted 68 442 parts....

- ----------
> From: Rob T <katana72@juno.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Wanted 68 442 parts....
> Date: Sunday, July 20, 1997 5:15 PM
> 
> 
> On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:38:08 -0400 "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
> writes:
> snip>
> >I got to agree James I love having my 1970 Cutlass Convertible Beat 5
> >Litre's and Bow-ties.  No one ever suspects a 13 second Convertible 
> >OLDS
> >
> >Robert Schinkel 
> >
> I have personally seen a Cutlass Convertible (70 model) That runs 10's/
> 11's. I drool every time I think of it !!
> Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

Perhaps in a few years.  First I have to cage the car and redo the
suspension
Oh and I love to see it do 10's I LOVE IT !!!

Robert Schinkel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:27:50 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: 68 442

The E stands for assembly plant Linden NJ.
and when you speek of cheep are you looking for a short block 400 or a
complete 400 I have both for prices and condition E me at
docbob@caninet.com

Robert Schinkel

- ----------
> From: KIMBERLY KLEMENT <JONKIM@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 68 442
> Date: Sunday, July 20, 1997 12:39 PM
> 
> i have a 68 442 teck pages said 7th digit is assembly plant my 7th vin
> is E no plants listed for E.full vin # is 344878E140205.also looking for
> 68 400 engine any ideas were to look (cheep).i purchased mine with a 78
> 403cid orig engine long gone. john

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:13:42 -0700
From: larry polesnak <bullets@sgi.net>
Subject: 62 Starfire /Car Cruise/ Third Place Winner

Hi everyone,just got back from a car cruise in Pittsburgh,Pa. It was
at McDonald's on McKnight Road.It was held by Valvoline,McDonald's and
a local radio station. The public voted for the cars they liked. The 
 1ST place 1950 merc all custom 
 2nd place model T Truck
And I got 3RD place will my 1962 Black Starfire,Two Tone Gray Leather
Interior,Smoothie Crome Rims with Moon Caps.
Don't mean to Blow my own Horn,but I was so proud to be picked from all
the sharp cars there, v*ets,mu*tangs,m*pars,ch*vys, not going to name
all of them but you get the idea. Very proud Oldsmobile Owner....
                   Larry Polesnak  Pittsburgh,Pa.
    6    2    S    T    A    R    F    I    R    E

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:28:32 -0400
From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Subject: W-31 Harmonic Balancers

Chris B. Witt wrote:

> So, OK, what *does* a W31 tpye look like, how can I tell if I do find
one?
>
> Stepped or straight style?
> Dia. same as usual, about 6.5"?
> Thickness front to rear?

> thanks!
******************
This doesn't help any as far as physical descriptions go, but my April,
1975 copy of the Oldsmobile Chassis and Body Parts Catalog contains the
following information:

Section 0.659  Balancer-Cover-Hub-Pulley-Spacer-Bolt, Engine Crankshaft

Year(s)  Usage                Part Number  Description
68-70    350 Eng. O.A.I       402962       Balancer
68-72    350 Eng. exc. O.A.I. 400133       Balancer
68-69    400 Eng.             406541       Balancer
68-70    4400 S.T. or O.A.I.  406541       Balancer
68-72    455 Eng.             406541       Balancer

          ===
+======= | | | = Tom Stoner =======================+
|        | | |   OCA #3943                         |
|        |/|\|   Ann Arbor, Michigan               |
|        | | |   1979 Hurst/Olds (It's for sale!)  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu                |
+==================================================+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:59:17 -0400
From: hhzimmerman <hhzimmerman@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: seat back paint?

Douglas J Harkema wrote:
> 
> Hi
>     can you paint the plastic seat backs and armrest bases,  If so what kind of
> paint and do any companies have the correct color for my needs?
> Saddle interior
> 
> I would figure it would have to be a very flat paint?
> I'm grasping for money savings!
> 
> Thanks
> Doug H
> 
> 70 supreme conv.


Year One sells the "paint" and plastic prep stuff.  You spray the plastic with a coat of the special prep 
stuff, and while it is still wet (I think, but check the direction for specifics) you spray the paint, 
which is really a kind of dye.

I waited until Year One came out with the white seat backs last year, and to my dismay, found out that my 
interior is pearl.  I painted them and they look fine, it's been a year and it hasn't peeled or cracked.  
When they get scratched up from passengers, just shoot some more paint to make them look new.

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:05:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: BobH592058@aol.com
Subject: Elderly Rocket Drivers

<<PR/Legal stuff: Again, no age discrimination here, as I'll probably be =
into hot-rodding cars until I die, but I think we'll all agree that most =
elderly citizens drive Auroras instead of beefed up rockets.>>

Hmm, well, let's see, I've been eligible for AARP for 7 years and my Rocket
turns mid-low 11's.  Is that beefy enough for an "elderly citizen"?

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:19:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: BobH592058@aol.com
Subject: R-12 Alternatives

With all this talk of switching to 136a, 406a, FR-12, etc. one should
remember that an EPA approval says nothing about how long your system will
last using this stuff.

The EPA is only interested in alternatives that don't eat holes in the ozone
layer. (Assuming that happens in the first place of course.)

I won't consider changing over any of my systems (three at the current count)
until I run out of my stash of R-12.

Maybe by then the fallout of all these alternatives will leave one or two
reliable, long term _proven_ chemicals/mixtures.

'Til then, may I again suggest caveat emptor?

Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:31:10 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure

At 12:44 PM 7/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I was wondering does anybody know what the normal operating oil presuure is
>supposed to be for a 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile with a 350 engine with a 2
>barrel carbeurator in P.S.I. Thanks!
Hello,
  According to my Chilton's book your 350 normal oil psi should be 35.The 
compression ratio is 9.00-1.
Fred Kemp

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:40:16 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Smog Adventure

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> How ARE you guys faring with H-Cane Daniel?  Hope you're not too close &
> that your cars are safe (hey worry about the important things first, ya know?)
> 
> Here its just teh same hot & dull summer.
> 
> Lisa Madsen
> 
> Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
> , '69 Toronado
> 
> Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
> 
> My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
Lisa,

Here in central Ky we got our full year's average rainfall before July
started.  Seemed liked it rained about every other day for three
months.  Now it hasn't rained for so long the grass is dying and the
cars are dusty.  As much as I feel for the folks down in the hurricane
area, we are hoping some of that rainfall comes through here. 
Ironically, my family just got back from Panama City Beach a week ago. 
Sure was a lot of damage down there from the last big blow that came
through. 

Later, 

Don

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:49:38 -0500
From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Subject: advice needed 

I find myself in need of some serious advice. I'm in the middle of a dilema
on my rebuild. I understand that I can use the 350 pistons in my 400. I've
read the string on this a few weeks back,but didn't expect to do it. My
attention was not focused like it should have been. I need to know the
proper way to do this w/o losing all my compression and other considerations.

The other point of concern is with my suspension modification. With the
discs now installed from the doner T/A, what master cyl should I use. Is
there a pwr master that will work on my 65 442? 

I also found some Jahn's .1 over pistons at my local junkyard if anyone is
interested. I would appreciate any response to this. I wonder if my msg's
are making it to the list.

Jim Smith
65 442 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:04:51 -0700
From: Ron Barillaro <rbarillaro@img.net>
Subject: Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> 

Dear Sir:

I have found the parts that I need for my car.  Please remove me from the
MAIL LIST or refer me to an address that can do this.  

Thanks, Happy Oldsmobiling!!!!


R. Barillaro

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:56:17 -0500
From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Subject: Re: Elderly Rocket Drivers

At 08:05 PM 7/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
><<PR/Legal stuff: Again, no age discrimination here, as I'll probably be =
>into hot-rodding cars until I die, but I think we'll all agree that most =
>elderly citizens drive Auroras instead of beefed up rockets.>>
>
>Hmm, well, let's see, I've been eligible for AARP for 7 years and my Rocket
>turns mid-low 11's.  Is that beefy enough for an "elderly citizen"?
>
>Bob Handren        OCA/OCF# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
>Oviedo, FL
>
>Handren Associates, Inc.
>FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
>Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
>(407)365-6385
>

My Gramps always told me to respect my elders. How else do you expect to be
willed their goodies? And Mr. sounds like you got em!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:55:32 -0500
From: "Charles F. Kemp" <bloom@gorilla.net>
Subject: Re: Hurst package

At 01:28 PM 7/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Charles F. Kemp wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Sirs,
>
>Charles, don't forget their are some Oldsmobilin' ladies here too!  And
>don't be so formal.  We're not!
>
>>  I am the proud owner of a 1967 442. This car has a factory installed Hurst
>> 4-speed transmission. I would like to find out:1.was this a pre-version of
>> the Hurst Olds packages that would appear a few years later? and 2.how many
>> 442's were made like mine? or 3.was my car simply ordered like this by the
>> dealer and the only shifter offered at the time on 442's was the Hurst?
>
>Unless you have the "Hurst Hairy Olds", the drag car with (2) 425
>Toronado engines, than no.  The "few years later" was 1968 for the first
>official H/O.  Do you mean a Hurst SHIFTER vice Transmission?  If so,
>you should see a 442 stamped down the side, with a  Hurst "H" stamped
>below near the bottom (may have to push rubber boot down to see it.). 
>The shifter came in 67 442's from the factory.  I'm not sure if 66's had
>them.  But Hurst was a long time supplier of the shifters.  As far as
>production figures, I'm not sure (hep me out here 67 gurus), but there
>were a lot of 4-speeds.  Unless yours is the W-30 variety.  Then it gets
>interesting.....You are safe to assume that concern #3 was answered by
>yourself.  Yes, it was available on all 442 4-speeds in 67.
>
>Hope this clouds, er, clears things up a little.
>Mike Rothe

Mike,
  Yes,442 is stamped on the shifter along with the H on the bottom.I'm not 
sure I understand the above question:"Do you mean Hurst SHIFTER vise Trans-
mission?" Thanks for the info.
Fred Kemp

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:13:20 -0500
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Car Show Sightings  (Long)

Hi Folks,
               I just returned from a 2-day car show held at the Tupelo
Furniture Market.  (That's right - Tupelo, Mississippi...birthplace of "Th'
KANG"...)  155 vehicles, and there were 5 Olds', including mine.  There was
a 1958 98 4 dr. Hardtop, black with black & white interior.  Very nice car.
Got a first place in its class.  Also saw a 1962 Starfire 2 dr. Hardtop, two
toned:  metallic coral and white.  It had a sign under the hood that said
"394 ci engine with factory chrome."   (Good looking breather cover.)  The
Starfire took second place to a '64 Impala SS.  Saw a '69 442 convertible,
red w/red interior from Year One, non -numbers matching car.  (Owner rescued
the body from a crusher years ago, rebuilt it with a 455 w/a 4 spd.)  It
tied for first with a '69 Shivelle.  (That was painful to witness...)  The
last beauty  I saw was a '71 Delta 88 convertible.  Metallic blue with a
white top and white vinyl interior.  Nice looking car, had a for sale sign
on the windshield.  The hood wasn't open, so I couldn't tell anything about
the engine.  Odometer had 94,691 miles on it.  Top was down, so I don't know
the condition of it.  Body was very straight, paint was in good condition
for a 26 year old car.  Interior was very nice.  Asking price was $4,500.
If anyone wants to check on the car, I can e-mail the owner's name and phone
number to you privately.  Standard disclaimer:  I don't stand to profit from
the sale of this one.  The owner is the club prez for Mississippi on Wheels.
(He's probably had it on the market for a while, since the sign originally
said "$5,500 OBO."  If I was into Deltas, I might've snagged it for myself.)
             The class I was in was 1976 - 1987 stock.  A 1979 Trans Am and
a 1987 Grand National tied for second place, and my Olds took first.  (That
307 powered Olds may not be able to hang with a GN on the road, but it beat
him sitting still. :-)   I took some photos of all the Oldsmobiles, gotta
see how they come out.  (Don't worry, Greg - I won't send them to the list
:-)  Had an enjoyable weekend, especially since the show was indoors where
it was nice and cool.  Later.

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html
http://wcbi.com        .      

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:18:55 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Hurst package

<SNIP>> >>  I am the proud owner of a 1967 442. This car has a factory
installed Hurst
> >> 4-speed transmission. 


> I'm not sure I understand the above question:"Do you mean Hurst SHIFTER vise Trans-
> mission?" Thanks for the info.
> Fred Kemp

Fred, above is a snippet of the original inquiry.  All I was trying to
ascertain was whether you were actually meaning the shifter instead of a
Hurst Transmission.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:35:35 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Car Show Sightings  (Long)

Doug Newman wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
>                
>              The class I was in was 1976 - 1987 stock.  A 1979 Trans Am and
> a 1987 Grand National tied for second place, and my Olds took first.  (That
> 307 powered Olds may not be able to hang with a GN on the road, but it beat
> him sitting still. :-)   I took some photos of all the Oldsmobiles, gotta
> see how they come out.  (Don't worry, Greg - I won't send them to the list
> :-)  Had an enjoyable weekend, especially since the show was indoors where
> it was nice and cool.  Later.
> 
> Doug Newman
> Columbus, MS
> 1987 442
> 

Doug,

Nice going.  Those 442's are one of the finest cars that America has
ever produced.  It is great to hear that you have been recognized as
having one of the best of the best.

I was at the AACA nationals in Louisville this weekend.  There were
several fabulous Oldsmobiles there.  A 1950 98 convertible in gray w/a
red interior surely comes to mind.  There was also a 1955 Starfire in
turquoise & white w/a matching leather interior.  An unbelievable 1941 8
cylinder woody station wagon w/matching wood interior caused me to take
multiple looks.  There was even a 1920's truck w/an overhead valve
engine - no tappet cover either.  Of course a curved dash model was
present.  

If each didn't get a first place, I'd be shocked.  There were no 60's or
70's Oldsmobiles.  What was there took everyone's eye though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  I can't wait to get to Lansing

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:43:15 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: seat back paint?

> Douglas J Harkema wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >     can you paint the plastic seat backs and armrest bases,  If so what kind of
> > paint and do any companies have the correct color for my needs?
> > Saddle interior
> >
> > I would figure it would have to be a very flat paint?
> > I'm grasping for money savings!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Doug H
> >
> > 70 supreme conv.
> 

Doug,

There are several brands of vinyl paint available at your local paint
shop or even parts houses in aresol cans.  SEMS or Marhyde are two
excellent ones.  Most any color can be obtained.  You want a satin sheen
to be proper.

I suggest generously wiping the vinyl down w/laquer thinner & then
coloring the part before the tackiness of the vinyl disappears.  There
will be good color penetration and adhesion this way.  Apply several
coats to get good coverage but don't get too wet and allow runs.  This
is the same way GM did it even in the 50's when they didn't have a
proper colored vinyl panel or part.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:40:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: R-12 Alternatives (LONG)

Hi Bob,

> With all this talk of switching to 136a, 406a, FR-12, etc. one should
> remember that an EPA approval says nothing about how long your system will
> last using this stuff.

This is an excellent point.  The main reason for stressing EPA approval
concerns the legality of its use.  Previously, it was only legal to use
some of these substitutes in stationary refrigeration systems.  

There is nothing really special about R-406a.  It is mainly comprised of
R-22 (an HCFC), some R-142b (also an HCFC), and a small amount of R-600a
(isobutane for improved oil return to the compressor), blended in a manner
such that the pressure-temperature relationship approximates R-12.  The
properties of these substances is well known; both CFC's (R-12) and
HCFC's can lead to the formation of strong acids when moisture is present
in A/C systems.

Apparently, the temperature-pressure relationship of FR-12 means that it
will not cool as well as R-12.  Also, this substance isn't very miscible
with mineral oil, which would lead to poor lubrication of the compressor.

There's some interesting information at http://worldserver.com/R-406A/
To me, the scientific reasoning is sound.  R-406a has proven itself in
stationary refrigeration systems long before it became acceptable for use
in automobiles.  In my case, I didn't replace the original hoses in my '80
Fleetwood.  It is possible the "smaller" gas, R-22, will leak out more
quickly than the others leading to a composition change over time.  If 
this occurs, I'll have to decide to either discharge and recharge, or add
a small percentage of R-22 to manage the mixture.  Testing has shown that
topping up (adding a partial charge) 4 times did not affect system
performance.  This is the downside to using a zeotropic blend.  The major
benefit is that evaporation and condensation occurs over a ~15F range, so
it is capable of moving more heat than R-12, which is an azeotrope.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #765
********************************

