
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 30 June 1997        Volume 01 : Number 738

UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes
Re: TH 400 shift question.
Engine rebuild
Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)
Re: Car update
Re: TH 400 shift question.
Re: What I saw coming to work today
Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)
Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes
Re: Engine rebuild
TEST
A Few Good links (Tools, shocks, 
Re: Lansing: Where Are You?
Re[2]: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)
THM325 (Re: I'm Back)
Please take me off your mailing list
Re: Lansing where are you?
Re: THM325 (Re: I'm Back)
Re: Son's first drive in the Olds
Re: [Fwd: Re: Car update]
Re: TH 400 shift question.
Re: Lansing where are you?
72 S for sale (maybe)
Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)
Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)
Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)
Re: Engine rebuild
Re: Gasoline (WAS Re: Today's Youth)
Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)
Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes
IVOC Events for the Summer
Is this dealer still open
RE: Hurst?
72' 442 - Dashboard
Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)
Overheating problem
Re: Is this dealer still open
Re: Overheating problem
Re: 72' 442 - Dashboard
Re: Overheating problem
Silver paint for grilles etc...
Olds in the new issue of MCR
Re: Silver paint for grilles etc...
my new 70 conv
Re: Olds in the new issue of MCR
Re: I'm Back
Re: Silver paint for grilles etc...
X-Status: ON 32768
X-Status: ON 32768
Re: 72' 442 - Dashboard
Re: Overheating problem
Re: [Fwd: Re: Car update]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:43:55 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes

This one had too long a header line...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Toro wheel cyl note
Date:	Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:24:37 -0400 (EDT)
From:	"Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>

Oh, one thing you may care to tuck away in your memories: One "discount" auto
parts store could not even look up the 68 Toro rear wheel cylinder... called
Giant Auto, they had only a bit of difficulty finding one for $25 or so... and
it's the same part used on a '92 Caddilac DeVille! 'Nother guy was buyying one
for that car, salesman noted 'twas same part:

WC 56406, a.k.a.
BX33497
RY WC37116
ES EW71209, and
WA F56406

I presume "RY" is a code for Raybestos parts or such...

- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 03:54:25 -0700
Subject: Re: TH 400 shift question.

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:

> > From: John Oder <jaoder@navix.net>
> >
> > I have a question reqarding when a TH 400 should kick down when
> > passing.  The one I have in my SX will down shift fine a lower speeds
> > but when I am going above about 45 it will not down shift when I mash
> > the throttle.  Is this normal or should I have the transmission looked
> > at, I am more familar with the 727 Mopar trans.   Thanks,

Let me try to remember this one.  Hmmm... I believe that the tranny
should
kick down.  I am assuming that you have a 3-speed TH 400.  Try replacing
the
kd switch or even check out the fuel pump.  I had both of these
replaced.
And check the modulator on the tranny.

> I would assume it to be normal. Do you know what rpm's it's turning at 45?
> My truck will not down shift from o.d. if it's going faster than 48-50 mph.

The TH400 doesn't have an overdrive, so I don't think this is too
accurate
a comparison.  Now on my 82 DRB with a 307/200R4, when I am in OD and
stomp
it, I do go from OD to third.  Yucky if you ask me.

> With 2.73 rear and .70 o.d. and a lame 160 hp 4.3 V6 in a 4500 lb. truck I
> can hardly notice any pick up in speed that's why it gets dropped down to

I know what you mean about dropping to second.  On a AT car though you
can't
be going faster than 70 mph.

> second gear (2800-3000rpm). A shift kit might help you out. It will at
> least make it shift better and last longer (less friction while shifting).
> I've used both B&M and Transgo in TH350's and like the the Transgo kit a
> lot better. It's easier to install (no drilling) and gives more
> adjustablity.

I just checked out a web site that sells the kits.  A lot of money if
you
ask me.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:20:44 -0500
Subject: Engine rebuild

Anybody know how much an engine rebuild should cost (at a garage) for a
73 350? I just want to get a small parts/labor estimate before I jump
into this Edelbrock kit thing.
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:02:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
> 
> I found a web page that will search dealerships for parts. You enter what
> you want or the part's number and your area code. It's for newer parts so
> don't expect to find any W30 crate engines.
> www.partsvoice.com

After reading this it brought to my mind a suspicion I have been having
lately regarding the availability of 442 parts at local junk yards.  I
have seen many an e-mail from others on this list that state they found
4-4-2's in junk yards for parts.  I have hit most of the junk yards in
my
area and haven't see a one.  Now I am sure So. California has had
4-4-2's
in a wrecking yard before so I can't see why I am not finding any.  In 
talking with Ecology Auto Wreckers, they state that all classic (muscle)
cars go to a place called Memory Lanes (Sun Valley?).  I called up this
place and they state that they hadn't seen a 4-4-2 in a long time their.
I am beginning to feel that a conspiracy is brewing here.  There must be
someone getting all of these cars prior to the public ever seeing them.
I have seen a lot of nice older muscle care go in but never see them in 
the lot.  Am I being overly suspicious?

Later
Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:05:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Car update

Hi Greg,

Thanks for responding.  You seem to be the only one.  Strange?
 
> Forgot to mention... the standard driver's side mirror won't work on the
> passenger door. It looks *almost* the same, but the angle of the post
> coming up from the base is the mirror image (sorry for the pun) of the
> proper passenger side outside mirror.

Not even turned around?  Does anyone know what kind of mirrors 
were used on a H/O for 68?

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:30:45 -0500
Subject: Re: TH 400 shift question.

On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 10:52:23 -0500 John Oder <jaoder@navix.net> writes:
>Hi All,
>
>I have a question reqarding when a TH 400 should kick down when
>passing.  The one I have in my SX will down shift fine a lower speeds
>but when I am going above about 45 it will not down shift when I mash
>the throttle.  Is this normal or should I have the transmission looked
>at, I am more familar with the 727 Mopar trans.   Thanks,
>
>John Oder
>70 Cutlass SX W-32
>70 Cuda 383 Conv
>73 Dodge Challenger Rallye
>
>
Sounds like an electrical problem. The TH400 has an electrical kickdown.
I would recommend that you , 1st, check to make sure it is there, 2nd,
check your voltages to the kickdown connecter at the switch and the
tranny, if those are there, then it will be a tranny problem and I don't
know much about that, but can find out.


Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:32:17 -0700
Subject: Re: What I saw coming to work today

Hi all,

Today I saw a lady driving a 1970 Ralley 350 with rear deck lid spoiler
and ram air hood.  I nearly blew my tranny in the 82 DRB trying to
catch up with her :-)  She happens to work at the same company as I do.
I was unable to turn around to talk with her since I ended up in front
of her, she slowed down because of the crazy man :-)  Anyway I was
able to put a note on her windshield explaining who I am.  Boy I wish
she is interested in selling it.  Hope, hope, hope, pray, pray, drool,
drool......

The car seemed in fairly darn good shape.  Only thing I noticed that
was glaringly missing was the front grill.

Later...

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:03:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)

At 04:02 AM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>> 
>> I found a web page that will search dealerships for parts. You enter what
>> you want or the part's number and your area code. It's for newer parts so
>> don't expect to find any W30 crate engines.
>> www.partsvoice.com
>
>After reading this it brought to my mind a suspicion I have been having
>lately regarding the availability of 442 parts at local junk yards.  I
[snip]
>talking with Ecology Auto Wreckers, they state that all classic (muscle)
>cars go to a place called Memory Lanes (Sun Valley?).  I called up this
>place and they state that they hadn't seen a 4-4-2 in a long time their.
>I am beginning to feel that a conspiracy is brewing here.  There must be
>someone getting all of these cars prior to the public ever seeing them.
>I have seen a lot of nice older muscle care go in but never see them in 
>the lot.  Am I being overly suspicious?

I think you're being overly-suspicious. There weren't too many of those year
442's produced, and they were spread all over the country, so there won't be
too much of a concentration of them in any one place. Also consider that the
ones in the junkyard are the ones wrecked so bad that nobody would bother
fixing them, and you're down to a very small number of newer 442's in junkyards.

In addition, most of the newer 442's were bought by responsible adults (what
kid could spring $15,000 for a hot car?), and treated accordingly, garaged,
babied, etc. You'll probably have better luck finding a '70 442 in a
wrecking yard than an '87.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes

At 07:42 AM 6/30/97 -0300, you wrote:
>OK, got the new master cylinder in, it gravity-bled OK while I was making up
>the one line that twisted off... finally got the LR wheel cylinder in place,
>proceeded to bleed brakes by my usual method: apply vacuum to the open bleeder
>until juice runs clear & relatively bubble-free.
>
>Problem: only got a tiny bit of juice from the RR, none from the new LR, none
>from the RF, good flow from the LF only. Pumping, stomping, pressing, etc. on
>the brake pedal w/ bleeder(s) closed or open and w or w/o vacuum made no
>noticeable difference. Pedal feels real firm, no travel [unless that LF bleeder
>is open] but no FLOW.

You've got a blocked line, most likely in the rubber hoses. I had the same
symptoms with the original hoses on my '69 Toro; firm pedal, no flow. Try
cracking open the fitting to the brake hoses, and see if the pedal will move
easily (wrap a rag around the fitting, so that the brake fluid (i.e. paint
stripper) doesn't spray like a garden sprinkler (again, don't ask me how I
know...). If it does, the hose is your culprit; if not, it's the line to the
brake hose.

The little bit of fluid you got from the RR cylinder was whatever was left
in the line on the rear axle; you sucked it all out, and that's why you got
none from the LR cylinder.

>I pretty much ruled it down to the proportioning valve after I cracked the MCyl
>lines & observed flow and pedal travel then. So... any way to "fix" one of
>them? I figured 1) get one off a parts car at the farm, or 2) soak this sucker
>in carb cleaner vat at work for a day or so. Does not appear to be
>dismantleable at all. Maybe apply hydraulic pressure to the ports?

crack the output fittings on the proportioning valve, to see if anything
comes out; if not, then it's your culprit. I'd wager that it's the rubber
lines, though. 

>Anyone ever have a PValve lock up? Does this sound like the problem?

Well, it's really just a junction block on your '68 (not a true combination
valve like on later cars) with a piston that slides back and forth, if
there's a difference in pressure between front and rear systems. If it
locked up, all that would happen is that the piston wouldn't slide back and
forth; it wouldn't block the flow. If it did lock in a position that would
block flow, the switch would ground the brake warning light, and unless it
was burnt out (could be; did you check the bulb? does it work when the
parking brake is applied?), you'd know this problem right away. The metering
valve on the Toro is, I believe, on the side of the frame rail in the line
going from the junction block to the rear brake hose (at least it was on the
'68 I just helped part out). Also check if there is flow aft of this valve.

Be prepared to splice in some new brake line if (when) the old fittings
twist off. Also be prepared to wait for the brake hoses to arrive; they're
not easy to come by, though they can be assembled using standard ends. Also
be sure to compare the new hose with the old hose; I had a new hose that was
assembled wrong (the reinforcing band on the hose was the correct distance
from the end, but from the wrong end!).

Despite having to wait for one hose on backorder, I got excellent pieces
from Kanter's; $110 for the whole setup (hoses, shoes, hardware, cylinder
rebuild kits, etc.). You'll pay at least that for just the new hoses over
the counter (if the parts guys can locate them; most places list disc-brake
hoses, but not the drum-brake ones).

>I want my Toro *driveable*! :-(

Who can blame you?

But then again, it is *driveable* right now; you just have a tough time
slowing down...  ;)

Good luck!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:03:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine rebuild

At 08:20 AM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Anybody know how much an engine rebuild should cost (at a garage) for a
>73 350? I just want to get a small parts/labor estimate before I jump
>into this Edelbrock kit thing.

Including their labor, for a rebore/ground crank/stock-type rebuild, with
valve job and everything, figure around $1600-$2600, depending on labor
charges, the performance machine work done to it (i.e. degreeing cam and
balancing, which is highly recommended, 3-angle valve job, etc), whether
they pull and install it or you do, what old things break and need
replacing, etc. You could be pushing $3000-$3500, depending on what extras
you need/want to be done (decking block, align-honing, adjustable
valvetrain, etc.).

These prices will vary with geography, though; when I quoted the final
(scary) price for the machine work on my 403, a few people said that they
had stuff done near them for half the price. For example, labor rates (for
good work) near me were around $65/hour; in other places, it's closer to
$35-$40/hour.

Good luck with this; it won't be cheap. If you have the time and skill, you
might be able to save a few hundred by doing it yourself, but then you'd
have to spend much on that on the tools you didn't already have and couldn't
borrow. Then again, you'd have all those neat tools...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:21:12 -0400
Subject: TEST

loopback test post sent at 1121 Mon

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:29:41 -0400
Subject: A Few Good links (Tools, shocks, 

While wasting time.. Uh, browsing the vast information resources at work, I
came across the helpful links below...

The first line of this page says it all: "You Can Never Have Too Many
Tools", which I think is a good philosophy to live by (if you own an Olds).

it says: "Welcome to the Craftsman "Tool Search" enabling you to view in
detail over 2,000 Craftsman hand and power tools." Well, that is what I
think the internet was created for. See it at:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman/toolbox/index.htm

Also, found a place that lists shocks for my '69 Toro (my index of a good
company...)

http://www.monroe.com/monroe/cbg.htm

it also has suspension information, and detailed information about each of
its products (i.e. extended and compressed length, travel, etc.). Much
better than the simple promo pages many companies have.

Finally, here's a pretty comprehensive list of auto parts suppliers, with
some direct links to home pages:

http://www.westernauto.com/links/auto_parts.html

Oh, well, back to work... 
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:32:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Lansing: Where Are You?

This is the updated list. Please add to it if you haven't already.
NAME                     HOTEL             DATES    CAR
====                       =====             =====     ===
Beaulieu, Greg        Hampton Inn      8/18-23    none
Hirtle, Don              Hampton           8/18-23     none
Penny, Steve          Hampton           8/18-23     none
Smith, Brian           Hampton           8/18-23     none
Stewart, Sandy       Hampton           8/18-23     none
Chermack, Jim       Mariott East       8/18-25     70 SX W-32
Harkema, Doug      Holt, MI              all            none yet
Easton, Jeff           Fairfield Okemos 8/20-22     70 442 black
Hendley, Daren      Ramada             8/20-24     none
McFarlane, Cliff      Holiday West     8/19-23      63 Starfire
Westlake, Steve     Holiday West     8/19-23      63 - 98
Glista, Richard       Holiday West     8/19-23      68 - 442
Wilson, Jim            none                 8/19-23      64 Stafire
Nicholson, Brad      Best Western    8/19-24      87 442 (Just Me)
 (w/ Donna & Eli)     Midway             8/19-24      94 LSS (w/wife & kid)
Matt Cremean         Cremean Inn      8/21          73 Cutlass Supreme
Dan Gulino             Sleep Inn           8/20-24      75 Delta 88 Conv
Chris Smetana       Best Western Governors Inn  8/20-24  possibly a 72 S
(see my next post) otherwise the M*ustang.
BTW Dave Wyatt will be at the same hotel as we are caravaning together.
Dave? are ya there?

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 12:54:23 est
Subject: Re[2]: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)

Chris Sparks wrote:

...I am beginning to feel that a conspiracy is brewing here.  There must 
be someone getting all of these cars prior to the public ever seeing 
them. I have seen a lot of nice older muscle care go in but never see 
them in the lot.  Am I being overly suspicious?
     
     When I lived in SoCal (ten+ years ago), I spent a lot of time cruising 
     yards like Pick-Your-Part in Wilmington.  There was a crew of people 
     who would spend all day hanging out in the yard, watching every car 
     that came in.  Any desirable item would be taken as soon as the car 
     hit the lot.  This same crew would be later seen at the Pomona and 
     Long Beach swap meets, selling these items.  I guess it's one way to 
     make a living.
     
     In addition, keep in mind that it has been over 25 years since these 
     cars have been built.  Very few are still on the road, and even fewer 
     are likely to get junked.  Most people know what they are worth and 
     will likely restore them or part the cars out rather than just selling 
     to a wrecking yard for $100.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:17:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: THM325 (Re: I'm Back)

> Is the TH325 like a TH350. Stronger or weaker?

I'd also like to see a definitive answer to this.  Seeing that the
THM325 was used in conjunction with Olds 350's and Cadillac 368's (the
RWD models used the THM400), it probably has a capacity similar to a
THM350.  It's really a 'downsized' version of the THM425, used from
'66-'78; does anyone know how much physically larger (if at all) this
earlier version is?

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario

------------------------------

From: Robert Dye <robbyd@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:32:20 -0400
Subject: Please take me off your mailing list

Please take me off your mailing list.
Thank you

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:52:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Lansing where are you?

This is the updated list. Please add to it if you haven't
already.              
NAME                     HOTEL             DATES   
CAR                         
====                       =====             =====    
===                      
Beaulieu, Greg        Hampton Inn      8/18-23   
none                          
Hirtle, Don              Hampton           8/18-23    
none                     
Penny, Steve          Hampton           8/18-23    
none                        
Smith, Brian           Hampton           8/18-23    
none                       
Stewart, Sandy       Hampton           8/18-23    
none                         
Chermack, Jim       Mariott East       8/18-25     70 SX
W-32                   
Harkema, Doug      Holt, MI              all            none yet
Easton, Jeff           Fairfield Okemos 8/20-22     70 442
black                
Hendley, Daren      Ramada             8/20-24    
none                         
McFarlane, Cliff      Holiday West     8/19-23      63
Starfire                 
Westlake, Steve     Holiday West     8/19-23      63 -
98                       
Glista, Richard       Holiday West     8/19-23      68 -
442                    
Wilson, Jim            none                 8/19-23      64
Stafire             
Nicholson, Brad      Best Western    8/19-24      87 442 (Just
Me)              
 (w/ Donna & Eli)     Midway             8/19-24      94 LSS (w/wife &
kid)     
Matt Cremean         Cremean Inn      8/21          73 Cutlass
Supreme          
Dan Gulino             Sleep Inn           8/20-24      75 Delta 88
Conv        
Chris Smetana       Best Western Governors Inn  8/20-24  possibly a 72 S

Dave Wyatt      Best Western Governors Inn     8/20-24  Yellow '70 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Patrick Flowers <patri63@ibm.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: THM325 (Re: I'm Back)

Kevin Wong wrote:
> 
> > Is the TH325 like a TH350. Stronger or weaker?
> 
> I'd also like to see a definitive answer to this.  Seeing that the
> THM325 was used in conjunction with Olds 350's and Cadillac 368's (the
> RWD models used the THM400), it probably has a capacity similar to a
> THM350.  It's really a 'downsized' version of the THM425, used from
> '66-'78; does anyone know how much physically larger (if at all) this
> earlier version is?

Well, it's my understanding that the THM425 was basically a THM400
severed aft of the torque converter.  A chain drive was mounted to the
truncated transmission and the remainder of the transmission and
differential mounted below for FWD applications.  There's a good picture
of one at http://www.hughes.net/~gcifu/eldosaurpark/pwrtrn.html.  If GM
followed form on the THM325, it should be a THM350 simularly altered for
front-wheel-drive use.

Patrick
- -- 
Patrick Flowers    Mailto:patri63@ibm.net

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:28:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Son's first drive in the Olds

My oldest son Greg (the non-gearhead) drove my 4-4-2 Saturday.  He now
has his learners permit and can drive with a licensed driver over 18. 
He asked to learn to drive a manual transmission, and he got his wish. 
It is the same car his mother learned to drive a stick in.  Somehow the
passenger floorboard survived me trying to push my feet through it.  He
had some trouble operating the clutch and brake at the same time.  Thank
Olds for the tremendous torque, he seemed to let the clutch out either
too quick most of the time or not quick enough other times.  All in all
it went well.  No broken parts in the car and him with stronger left leg
muscles.  He did manage to back into the yard across the street. 
Something to do with leaving the clutch engaged and not applying the
brakes hard enough.  Thank God we live in a small town on a low traffic
street.  He was embarrassed and I was laughing hystericaly while the
Olds was sitting half in and half out of their yard.  We had a good time
and he learned a lot.  Needless to say I won't be turning him loose in
it anytime soon, if ever, in his lifetime.  There is some hope for him
as he has expressed interest in a 3rd generation flaming chicken.
He may get into old cars in spite of himself.

Dave(who will be hiding the whole car when Michael is that age)Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:53:03 -0800
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Car update]

>I am sending this again since I got no response.  Please help me on
>the questions.

[SNIP]

>
>If I use her front disc brakes, which are probably 4-piston type, should
>I get a 1-piston type instead and sell her's off?  Is their a market
>for 4-piston type brakes?

I have been told that the 1 piston are much more servicable, and you can
buy OEM replacement parts (the whole caliper should be about $50 each).
There has to be someone restoring a 4 piston unit for show!!!

>I haven't been able to determine if the donor car, or mine for that
>matter,
>has posi in it or not.  Maybe when I get it up on a lift, I can scrub
>that
>axle till I get a number.  Does anyone have a list of numbers for rear
>ends
>that they could post on this list?  Once I find the codes, I will be
>anxious
>to look them up.  I don't see any tags, however, that doesn't mean a
>thing
>since these probably broke off over time or was never put back on by
>mechanics.
>

With both tires off the ground, spin one side and the other side should
spin in the same direction...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:46:33 -0500
Subject: Re: TH 400 shift question.

> > I would assume it to be normal. Do you know what rpm's it's turning at
45?
> > My truck will not down shift from o.d. if it's going faster than 48-50
mph.
> 
> The TH400 doesn't have an overdrive, so I don't think this is too
> accurate
> a comparison.  Now on my 82 DRB with a 307/200R4, when I am in OD and
> stomp
> it, I do go from OD to third.  Yucky if you ask me.

Yes they are two completly differant tranny's, but the point I was trying
to make is that it will not down shift once the engine is above a certain
rpm this is true for any GM tranny. Some thing a shift kit will change.
 
> > With 2.73 rear and .70 o.d. and a lame 160 hp 4.3 V6 in a 4500 lb.
truck I
> > can hardly notice any pick up in speed that's why it gets dropped down
to
> 
> I know what you mean about dropping to second.  On a AT car though you
> can't
> be going faster than 70 mph.

Depends on gear ratio and tire diameter.

> I just checked out a web site that sells the kits.  A lot of money if
> you
> ask me.

$15 (transgo kit) isn't that much if you are going to get more life out of
the tranny. www.naparts.com
> 
> Chris Sparks

Daren

------------------------------

From: <Sherry_Soball@Douglas.BC.CA>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 13:15:52 PDT
Subject: Re: Lansing where are you?

> 
> This is the updated list. Please add to it if you haven't
> already.              
> NAME                     HOTEL             DATES   
> CAR                         
> ====                       =====             =====    
> ===                      
> Beaulieu, Greg        Hampton Inn      8/18-23   
> none                          
> Hirtle, Don              Hampton           8/18-23    
> none                     
> Penny, Steve          Hampton           8/18-23    
> none                        
> Smith, Brian           Hampton           8/18-23    
> none                       
> Stewart, Sandy       Hampton           8/18-23    
> none                         
> Chermack, Jim       Mariott East       8/18-25     70 SX
> W-32                   
> Harkema, Doug      Holt, MI              all            none yet
> Easton, Jeff           Fairfield Okemos 8/20-22     70 442
> black                
> Hendley, Daren      Ramada             8/20-24    
> none                         
> McFarlane, Cliff      Holiday West     8/19-23      63
> Starfire                 
> Westlake, Steve     Holiday West     8/19-23      63 -
> 98                       
> Glista, Richard       Holiday West     8/19-23      68 -
> 442                    
> Wilson, Jim            none                 8/19-23      64
> Stafire             
> Nicholson, Brad      Best Western    8/19-24      87 442 (Just
> Me)              
>  (w/ Donna & Eli)     Midway             8/19-24      94 LSS (w/wife &
> kid)     
> Matt Cremean         Cremean Inn      8/21          73 Cutlass
> Supreme          
> Dan Gulino             Sleep Inn           8/20-24      75 Delta 88
> Conv        
> Chris Smetana       Best Western Governors Inn  8/20-24  possibly a 72 S
> 
> Dave Wyatt      Best Western Governors Inn     8/20-24  Yellow '70 4-4-2
> Dave Soball        Motel 6 Central         8/20-24    Red/White '55 98



- -- 

------------------------------

From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:48:10 -0500
Subject: 72 S for sale (maybe)

As mentioned in a previous post about going to Lansing, I may be able to
acquire a 72 Cutlass S.  The car, from what I can tell before looking at
it, had been sitting for a couple years.  The people who own it were having
a yard sale this past weekend and I stopped by to inquire if the car was
for sale.  The lady said no and as I started walking away she asked what
would I offer for it.  After looking the car over (and battling bees and
wasps, killed several) I offered her $300.  She said the car runs fine, but
it couldn't be started since the battery was missing and she said it has
never had any work other than the carb rebuilt.  I also noticed it was
missing a plug wire, so I don't know when it was driven or started last.
The plates on it expired in 92.  She said she was the original owner and
loved the car but had given it to her daughter/son (don't remember which).
I told her it looked like it may have been repainted since it looked like
there where several coats of green on the hood, she said not to her
knowledge.  The body was pretty rusy in spots.  It is (I'm guessing
original) 350 2bbl/turbo 350, radiant green with white bucket interior,
console, std gauges, ps, pb, SSI, a/c (assume not working since there was
no belt).  The front fenders have the usual rust in the lower portion, the
doors have some rust, the driver one looks like it was hit, not a dent just
a long crease.  The trunk lid has a rust hole in it, the driver rear fender
has some rust, but the major rust is the partially non existent pass rear
quarter.  It look like the car sat so long the rear side marker light on
the pass side rusted out and fell on the ground, since that is where I
found it.  Didn't get to look in the trunk.  And the pass rear wheel well
chrome rusted off, as I found it in the back seat.  The hood has a small
rust hole on the underside when you open it, it's not through yet.  The
paint was pretty faded (I'm not a big fan of green).  The interior wasn't
really that bad, the headliner had a couple tears, but wasn't hanging down.
The seats had a few bursted seams, but no padding was sticking out.  I
pounded on the floors from inside the car and they sounded pretty solid.
There was no rust at the base of the windshield and the rear section of the
frame that I could see wasn't rusted.  All the chrome was there and the
bumpers where dented up some.  The motor looked fairly normal I guess, no
major leaks that I could see, I forgot to check how many miles it had on it
though.  She said that if her sibling doesn't start doing something with it
very soon, I should expect a phone call in a couple months.  By then she
should have a battery and I can hear it run, so she says.  The vin is
3G87H2M181729 and the body plate is
ST 72  33687LAN379716
  947              36  36
02C     A51 B80 B85
I have broken this down, but am curious what the A51, B80, B85 (I think
these where correct) mean.  From this description, do you guys think the
$300 offer is fair, understanding that I haven't heard it run, or drive for
that matter.  Eargerly awaiting responses.  Thanks.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
csmetana@disc.sony.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
2 1966 GTO's
1971 Skylark custom convertable
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback

------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:52:27 -0500
Subject: Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)

Chris I don't think $300 is a bad price for the car for parts.  Seeing
how it is an S and not a performance model it would not be worth fixing
up.  Of course the northern folks might think that is one heck of a buy.
Given your Chicago area history you may even feel like fixing it. 
Remember that the car is in west central Indiana and would be passed
over by most folks in this area due to rust and not being a Hi-Po model.
You could invest that money in one of your other projects and be a
little ahead.  I say this from experience, as I have had too many
projects in the past while my 4-4-2 got ignored as you have witnessed.
Of course you could part it out, make a few bucks, and invest that money
back into one of the other cars.  It does not sound a whole lot better
than your 69 W-31 which is/will be a very desirable car.  If you do get
it and decide to part it, I might want to do some sheet metal trimming
with a cut off tool around the back window.

Good Luck,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:07:56 +0000
Subject: Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)

Chris R. Smetana wrote:
> 
> As mentioned in a previous post about going to Lansing, I may be able to
> acquire a 72 Cutlass S. 

I have a 72 Cutlass S also. If you do decide to part it out, I need a
left side grille, if it is the one with the horizontal 'bars' (mine is
missing the outside chrome trim)

I would also be interested in the SSI wheels, depending on the price.

JR

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)

In a message dated 97-06-30 16:45:27 EDT, you write:

>  From this description, do you guys think the
>  $300 offer is fair, understanding that I haven't heard it run, or drive
for
>  that matter.  Eargerly awaiting responses.  Thanks.

$300 is not much, but it sounds more like a $150 dollar car.

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Engine rebuild

In a message dated 97-06-30 08:22:20 EDT, you write:

> Anybody know how much an engine rebuild should cost (at a garage) for a
>  73 350? I just want to get a small parts/labor estimate before I jump
>  into this Edelbrock kit thing.

I recently got some quotes on a rebuild for a 2.8 V-6 Ch*vy:

complete rebuild (they pull and install) - $2200-2500
complete rebuild (you pull and install) - $1200-1500
rebuild shortblock (you take-apart and assemble)- $800-1100

I ended up doing some networking and found a friend of a friend who would
rebuild my longblock (block and heads) and assemble it for $500!!!
He works for a dealership and worked on it in their shop after he got off of
work.
It pays to network!
The only down side is that you might have to wait a little longer.

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:37:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Gasoline (WAS Re: Today's Youth)

>Oh Daaaannnnnnnn.....I have a little neighborhood Mobil that sells its
>Premium 93 octane for $1.33 a gallon - a full .20 cheaper then anyone else.
> I keep wondering when the 'other' guys are gonna figure out that his never
>empty pumps probably net him the biggest profit!
>
>
>Lisa Madsen


AND!!!

>I was teasing Dan cause I'm 15 min. from him.

Now that I am catching up on the 300+ Emails from the weekend...

I know you left out the location on PURPOSE! ;-)

Well, where is it??? Of course I put 20+ gallons in the White Shark on
Sat., so I should need this place by Thursday...

The difference in price should pay for the lead substitute...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:41:45 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: Re: 72 S for sale (maybe)

On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, david wyatt wrote:
> Chris I don't think $300 is a bad price for the car for parts.  Seeing
> how it is an S and not a performance model it would not be worth fixing
> up.  

Hey now!!!! ;-)

> Of course the northern folks might think that is one heck of a buy.

Hehehe... around here that car would be advertised as "one owner, all 
original, good condition for the year, $3000". Well, maybe I'm a little 
cynical. But for example, there is a '72 Cutlass convertible on one of 
the lots here right now. I know the car. It sat in a yard for many years 
exposed to the elements. The interior is shot, the floors are shot, the 
frame is shot. In fact, you can see the ground through the rear window! 
They put a new top on it, threw some paint at it, and are pricing it at 
$3K. I have no idea how it runs, or even if it runs. It would be 
questionable even as a parts car. But in the rust belt you work with what 
you have...  

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: SAdelstein@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:05:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Brakes

The problem you are having sounds similar to what happened to me.  I have a
1969 cutlass and the car kept pullin to the right no matter what I replaced.
 I eventually found the problem.  On the rear of your vehicle there should be
a liitle rubber hose that connects the main line to the two back brakes.
 Over time this hose can break down, as it did on my vehicle, and cause the
car not to brake properly.  This would also cause you to get little amounts
of brake fluid, if your getting any, when you try to bleed the brakes.  I
would try replacing this rubber hose because I am sure that is the problem if
you are not getting any brake fluid in the rear.  On the front brakes there
should be a rubber hose that connects the main brake line to the wheel
cylinder of each wheel.  This is located directly behind the tire.  The hose
on my FR had broken down completely and clogged up the wheel cylinder.  I
fixed the whhel cylinder by blowing air through it until air came out freely.
 I then replaced the hose and adjusted the brakes and now my brakes are
working perfectly.  For your brakes I suggest changing out all three hoses
that go to the FR, FL, and rear.  It might be as simple as that.

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:41:04 -0500
Subject: IVOC Events for the Summer

As promised, here are the events listed in the IVOC chapter
newsletter for Illinois region.  Note that some of these
are not IVOC sponsered.

June 22  Car Show at Lambs Farm in Libertyville
June 28  Classics on the Lake at Lake Park, Desplains
June 28  Wisconsin Chapter Renner Olds Show, Milwaukee, Wi.
June 29  Midwest Street Rod Assc. Street Rod and Custom Car Show,
           Dupage Co. Fairgrounds
July 4   4th of July Parade, Weschester, ILL
July 12  Fun Fest and Open Show in Westchester
July 11-13  Iola Wi Swap Meet and Car Show
July 12-13  Canadian Nationals Show and Swap at Fanshawe Park,
              London, Ont.
July 19  IVOC annual picnic at Steve DeNovi's in Tinley Park
July 19  Wisc. Chapter annual CLiff Wall Olds Show in GreenBay
July 26  IVOC Uftring Olds Fun Show, Washington, Ill
Aug 1-2  Olds Performance Chapter Nationals Franklin, Oh
Aug 3    Annual Vintage Trasportation Extravaganza, Union Grove
Aug 10   IVOC David Miller Show in Matteson, ILL
Aug 20-23  Olds Centennial Celebration in Lansing, Mi
Aug 31   25th Annual Blueberry Festival w/ car show/swap meet
          (no address given but I think its in Northern Indiana)
Sept 7   Kane Co Fairgounds in St. Charles, ILL show&swap
Sept 12-13  Quad State meet hosted by WI chapter. Dodgeville, WI
Sept 21  Beloit Autorama show/swap Beloit, Wi
Sept 27-28  Annual Car rally around Lake Geneva, Wi.
Oct 19   IVOC fall membership meeting, South Elgin, ILL
July 15-18, 1998 IVOC hosts the OCA national meet, Springfield, ILL


- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: larry polesnak <bullets@sgi.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:01:28 -0700
Subject: Is this dealer still open

Hi everyone thanks for reading this. I have a 62 STARFIRE, I have the 
original 1962 OLDSMOBILE owner protection plan. It shows the original
owner and the dealer. I was just wondering if the dealer was still open
and if by chance anyone would know the original owner so I could tell 
them there 62 STARFIRE is as pretty as new and I would send them some
pictures.Here are the addresses.......
DEALER....Pioneer Olds.Co.          OWNER...Dorothy J. Panella
          4610 Lankershim Blvd.             5910 Auckland
          No.Hollywood,Calif.               No.Hollywood,Calif.
Saleman..R.H.Stewart..5/25/62
another name on back of Protection Plan ........Brewer
                       Thank You Larry Polesnak
         6    2    S    T    A    R    F    I    R    E

------------------------------

From: "Laurence Simpson" <LaurenceSimpson@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 23:47:35 UT
Subject: RE: Hurst?

To DavidB

Echlin subdivisions are:

1. Brake Systems Parts:

 NAPA  * United Raybestos * Preferred * ALLSAFE * IPI * Frictiontech* Etna *  
Neelon * Beck/Arnley Worldparts * Midland * Grey-Rock *             Like-NU *  
 Maxibrake * Brake Technology * Teckonsha * AccuPower * Lusac * Itapsa
 * Plasbestos * American Brakeblok * Grau * Quinton Hazell * Moprod * FAG *
 Nobel

2. Engine System Parts:

 NAPA Echlin * Borg-Warner * Preferred * ACCEL * AUTO-TUNE * Dura Mag * 
Niehoff * Whitaker * DFI * Century * Ace * Mega * Accurate * Beck/Arnley 
Worldparts * Mr. Gasket * Ultra-Seal * Hamburger's Oil Pans * Long * Proausa * 
Nobel * Aupamesa * Urba * Quinton Hazell * SU * Irauto * Moprod * Zenith * 
Commercial Ignition * TJ Filters * Hobourn * Fuelmiser * Power Plus

3. Power Transmission; Steering and Suspension System Components:

 Borg-Warner * Brute Power * Preferred * Long * Beck/Arnley Worldparts * Lipe 
* Hurst * Lakewood * Hays * WPC * Comfia * Quinton Hazell * Moprod * FAG * 
Irauto * Lipmesa * Hobourn * Nobel * Nolathane

4. Additional Products:

 Sprague * Berg * Moto Mirror * Proausa * Grau - heavy duty products
Mr. Gasket * Daytona * Black Magic II * Rodware * TruckWare * Teconsha * 
Bargman * Sure Pull * Power Plus - accessories and care products
NAPA Small Engine Parts * Sierra * Prime Line *
Shields - small engine parts
Preferred - industrial products

Laurence Simpson, D.D.S.
HOCA 514
88 H/O Advisor
69, 79, 88 H/O


- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca on behalf of DavidB442@aol.com
Sent: 	Monday, June 30, 1997 4:17 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Hurst?

And you left out the fact that Echlin is a big part supplier of Napa and also
ownns Accel too!

------------------------------

From: Mike Stewart <102552.3045@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 30 Jun 97 20:08:46 EDT
Subject: 72' 442 - Dashboard

Recently purchased 72' 442 from my brother in Nevada.  On the center of the
dashboard is a indicator or sensor.  Have read several Oldsmobile publications
and have not determined what this may be.  Hopefully not a hack job on the dash.


Does anybody have any idea what this item may be?

Thanks,

Mike
N.P., FL

------------------------------

From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:27:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Junk yard fraud (was Re: Finding new oem parts)

Dr. Bob wrote:

>In addition, most of the newer 442's were bought by responsible adults (what
>kid could spring $15,000 for a hot car?), and treated accordingly, garaged,
>babied, etc. You'll probably have better luck finding a '70 442 in a
>wrecking yard than an '87.

Please don't say '87 and wrecking yard in the same sentence :-)

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html
http://wcbi.com

------------------------------

From: SAdelstein@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:50:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Overheating problem

My 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile on hot and moderate days, between 70 and 100
degrees, always tends to reach temperatures between 210 and 235 degrees.  I
have replaced the radiator, water pump, heater core, and replaced the fan
clutch with a flex fan.  Also, I have checked the timing and air fuel
mixture.  No matter what I do the car still hits these temperatures.  The car
only hits these temperatures when I am in stop and go traffic for awhile and
then goes down a little bit when I start moving again.  The temperature once
it has reached about 230 degrees never cools back down under 200 degrees.  If
anyone can give me any type of clue as to why the car gets this hot I would
be very happy.  I forgot to mention that I installed a 3 row radiator.

------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:51:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Is this dealer still open

At 06:01 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi everyone thanks for reading this. I have a 62 STARFIRE, I have the 
>original 1962 OLDSMOBILE owner protection plan. It shows the original
>owner and the dealer. I was just wondering if the dealer was still open
>and if by chance anyone would know the original owner so I could tell 
>them there 62 STARFIRE is as pretty as new and I would send them some
>pictures.Here are the addresses.......
>DEALER....Pioneer Olds.Co.          OWNER...Dorothy J. Panella
>          4610 Lankershim Blvd.             5910 Auckland
>          No.Hollywood,Calif.               No.Hollywood,Calif.
>Saleman..R.H.Stewart..5/25/62
>another name on back of Protection Plan ........Brewer
>                       Thank You Larry Polesnak
>         6    2    S    T    A    R    F    I    R    E

If you wish to know if this dealer is still in business, why not just call
information for North Hollywood and ask for a phone number?  If you get
one, they're still in business.


Dan


************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:00:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Overheating problem

please someone tell me howe to get OOF this thing!~~~~~~~~~


I mean OFF~~~  
i have no backspace key.

- --
*****************************************************************
	There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*	There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:58:59 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: Re: 72' 442 - Dashboard

On 30 Jun 1997, Mike Stewart wrote:
> Recently purchased 72' 442 from my brother in Nevada.  On the center of the
> dashboard is a indicator or sensor.  Have read several Oldsmobile publications
> and have not determined what this may be.  Hopefully not a hack job on the dash.
> Does anybody have any idea what this item may be?

I think it's a "fasten seat belts" light that was used on cars having a 
rallye pack (hence no room in the guage cluster for the light). Jim 
Chermack showed me one on his when I visited -- he could verify if my 
description is right. Fairly rare, I should think.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:04:06 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: Re: Overheating problem

On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 SAdelstein@aol.com wrote:
> My 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile on hot and moderate days, between 70 and 100
> degrees, always tends to reach temperatures between 210 and 235 degrees.  I
> have replaced the radiator, water pump, heater core, and replaced the fan
> clutch with a flex fan.  Also, I have checked the timing and air fuel
> mixture.  No matter what I do the car still hits these temperatures. 

Could this be one of those situations with the wrong style of thermostat 
restricting the coolant flow too much? There is apparently a discrepancy 
with thermostats generally available today and the type originally 
specified by Olds that restricts flow and can lead to this problem. A 
hi-flow thermostat might help. 

As an aside, today was the hottest day here in some time. Temps were 
close to 90 and I was worried about my '68 overheating when I got stuck 
in some heavy traffic, but no problem. In fact, it seemed to run better 
than usual! Good car... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Brian Lorway" <blorway@rust.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:45:43 -0400
Subject: Silver paint for grilles etc...

Does anyone know what silver paint is best to use for painting plastic
parts like the grilles, headlight housings and tail lights? Any help would
be appreciated.

Regards,
Brian

1970 4-4-2 W-30, 4-Speed
1971 4-4-2 W-30, Convertible
OCA # 028157

------------------------------

From: "John Richmond" <richmond@tir.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:55:23 -0400
Subject: Olds in the new issue of MCR

Check out the new issue of MCR, there is a great article on
a 70 W-30.
They also listed the 50 fastest muscle cars
the 68 Hurst Olds was #36 @ 13.77 in the quarter and
the 70 W-30 was #45 @ 13.88 in the quarter.     

------------------------------

From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:00:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Silver paint for grilles etc...

Brian Lorway wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what silver paint is best to use for painting plastic
> parts like the grilles, headlight housings and tail lights? Any help would
> be appreciated.


You might try paints made for plastic models. Some of the finishes like
Metalizer are not too durable, but I think that they make sealers for
them.

JR

------------------------------

From: "Douglas J Harkema" <harkema2@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:02:32 -2800 (EDT)
Subject: my new 70 conv

Hi,
    I just picked up a 1970 supreme conv't.  I got a great deal on it.  It only
has 76,000 miles.  interior is a little messed up and needs a new top.  Can
someone tell me the what I got.

Body tag reads:  ST 70 34267 E 2390 BDY
                 TR 979 58 HPNT 02D

I Think I'm going to like this car!!!!

Thanks
Doug Harkema (too many Dougs)
70 supreme conv

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Olds in the new issue of MCR

At 09:55 PM 6/30/97 -0400, John Richmond wrote:
>Check out the new issue of MCR, there is a great article on
>a 70 W-30.
>They also listed the 50 fastest muscle cars
>the 68 Hurst Olds was #36 @ 13.77 in the quarter and
>the 70 W-30 was #45 @ 13.88 in the quarter.    

What were the trap speeds? That is a much better indication of the cars
potential / HP. I am sure the 80 442 W-30 was on that list ;-)  
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH  f-body list member since 5/95
93 Camaro Z/28: Patriot Red, A4, 3.23, PEG2, Firestone Firehawk SVX tires,
TFX cat-back, 160 'stat, homeade air intake, Accel 300+ ignition and coil,
Mobil 1 fluids, blackouts(rear+turn.).........14.165@98.70 before listed mods
Coming soon: authentic SS hood, spoiler and SLP exhaust
80 Olds 442 W-30...show car...see at http://www.442.com/labay.html
75 Hurst/Olds W-25-(2 of them)

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:18:16 -0500
Subject: Re: I'm Back

>
> > Q4: Will the outside door handle interchange with something else?
> 
> Is your handle the type where you reach under and lift upwards?  I just
> looked at a picture of a '79 Toronado with this style of handle.
> The Riviera and Eldorado have push-button type handles, and
> I don't believe they are interchangeable between even these cars since
> Cadillac has always had unique door handles, rear view mirrors, etc.

I think I 	saw some of  the reach under type door handles in the Help
secton at Pep Boys or one of those big retailers. 
Walter

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:17:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver paint for grilles etc...

> Does anyone know what silver paint is best to use for painting plastic
> parts like the grilles, headlight housings and tail lights? Any help would
> be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Brian
> 
> 1970 4-4-2 W-30, 4-Speed
> 1971 4-4-2 W-30, Convertible
> OCA # 028157
> 
Krylon Dull Aluminum

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:18:45 -0400
Subject: X-Status: ON 32768

> 
> 
> please someone tell me howe to get OOF this thing!~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> I mean OFF~~~  
> i have no backspace key.
> 
> --
> *****************************************************************
> 	There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
> *	There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
> *****************************************************************
> 
Me too!  Help!

unsubscribe oldsmobile doesn't work!

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:20:10 -0400
Subject: X-Status: ON 32768

> At 06:01 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi everyone thanks for reading this. I have a 62 STARFIRE, I have the 
> >original 1962 OLDSMOBILE owner protection plan. It shows the original
> >owner and the dealer. I was just wondering if the dealer was still open
> >and if by chance anyone would know the original owner so I could tell 
> >them there 62 STARFIRE is as pretty as new and I would send them some
> >pictures.Here are the addresses.......
> >DEALER....Pioneer Olds.Co.          OWNER...Dorothy J. Panella
> >          4610 Lankershim Blvd.             5910 Auckland
> >          No.Hollywood,Calif.               No.Hollywood,Calif.
> >Saleman..R.H.Stewart..5/25/62
> >another name on back of Protection Plan ........Brewer
> >                       Thank You Larry Polesnak

Call Olds, 800/442-6537 (OLDS)... easy number to remember, eh?  They can tell 
you...

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:22:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 72' 442 - Dashboard

> 
> Recently purchased 72' 442 from my brother in Nevada.  On the center of the
> dashboard is a indicator or sensor.  Have read several Oldsmobile publications
> and have not determined what this may be.  Hopefully not a hack job on the 
dash.
> 
> 
> Does anybody have any idea what this item may be?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike
> N.P., FL
> 
> 
Seat belt warning lamp on cars that were equipped with Rally Pack.

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:21:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Overheating problem

> My 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile on hot and moderate days, between 70 and 100
> degrees, always tends to reach temperatures between 210 and 235 degrees.  I
> have replaced the radiator, water pump, heater core, and replaced the fan
> clutch with a flex fan.  Also, I have checked the timing and air fuel
> mixture.  No matter what I do the car still hits these temperatures.  The car
> only hits these temperatures when I am in stop and go traffic for awhile and
> then goes down a little bit when I start moving again.  The temperature once
> it has reached about 230 degrees never cools back down under 200 degrees.  If
> anyone can give me any type of clue as to why the car gets this hot I would
> be very happy.  I forgot to mention that I installed a 3 row radiator.
> 
Throw the flex fan away, and get a _new_ fan clutch that's temp controlled, not 
speed controlled.

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:32:44 -0500
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Car update]

> If I use her front disc brakes, which are probably 4-piston type, should
> I get a 1-piston type instead and sell her's off?  Is their a market
> for 4-piston type brakes?

Yes, there is.  Not much of one, but there is one.  There are always
people adding options to their cars.  I'd even be interested in the
setup.

> 
> She also has a map light under he dash, is this hard to put in mine?
> The wiring, installation, ya know?

Should be easy.  White, Orange and Black wire.  You will have to cut the
pastic on your car.  Easiest thing to do is to swamp the plastic,
provided it is the same color.

> 
> I have also been playing with the idea of restoring the other car too
> when I
> got the chance.  Did HT of this year come with crank windows?  I was
> thinking
> about swaping the window controlling systems.

Yes, all 68s had crank windows.

> 
> Oh BTW, how easy/hard is it to take off the rear bumper?  I haven't
> figured this one out yet.

Just a few bolts.  Just crawl under the car and look.  It may help if
you jack up the rear end, but is not necessary.

> Another question:  This donor car has a sports outside mirror, which of
> course
> I will want to use.  The question is should I use what I have (standard
> mirror)
> and have it mounted on the right side?  Would this be acceptable say if
> I were
> to show the car?  Will the sport's mirror work in the current hole in
> the door
> as for the standard mirror?

When you say sport mirror, do you mean a remote mirror?  There are only
remote and non-remote mirrors for 68.  Either one will mount to your
door.  I don't know about swaping a left hand mirror to the right hand
side of the car.  My guess is it will not work out.

- -Dan

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #738
********************************

