
oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, August 7 1997       Volume 01 : Number 788



Re: Lansing Question!!!
Re: Value of car
Re: CAR 4 SALE AND 350 QUESTION
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: Value of car
Re: 71 442 Altenator
1971 Owners Manual For Sale
Re: A/F and oil questions...
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: Value of car
Re: parts for sale
urgent help needed
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: A few more questions
Re: Delta 88's
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: Another Weekend's Adventures
Re: urgent help needed
Re: parts for sale
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: delta 88/ auction price
[none]
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Re: Popular Mechanics?
Value of car (new question)
Fwd: Re: Questions on prices...
Re: Olds Night at the Drags
Re: a/f swap(Gen. Patton)
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Toro spotted
RE: A/F and oil questions...
Aluminum water pumps
Re: delta 88/ auction price
More a/f, more oil...
Re: Value of car
FW-Olds list meeting in AUGUST
digest 783 replies
Re: delta 88/ auction price
Re: Value of car
Re: f-body disc brakes on my 67 f-85
tire size question
older digest replies

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lansing Question!!!

In a message dated 97-08-04 01:13:34 EDT, you write:

<< Hello Olds Fans,
        I'm debating with my son wether I should take my 1970 Cutlass w31 in
 the caravan from Illinois to Lansing! My son says that I should go for it,
 but I'm not sure! Will there be help in the caravan? I'm in the OCA and they
 gave me a little info but I'm worried about that also! What about when we
 park our cars at night? It would be easy for someone to steal parts from my
 engine! Will there be security at the hotels? >>

I may be late on this one, but Lansing Police and the Michigan State Police
have been contracted to provide security at all the OLDSMOBILE car shows.  As
for stealing, I think it will be kept to a major minuimn.  Just look at the
OCA events in the past, very little stealing or any at all.  So rest assure,
I am taking my 72 W-30 with all the high dollar items on it.  So take it and
have fun.

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:04:05 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

>> Well, it will if you keep droning on about it.  :-)
>
>Did I tell you I was part bumble bee? :-)  I'll stop pursuing this
>thread if it really bothers others.  Greg?  I was just interested
>in seeing if I had a valid claim to present against the Auto Club.

Now that you mention it, there was a beef reported in... um...
I think it might have been "Cars and Parts," where a guy bought
a '69 Road Runner at auction for some sizeable amount with a low
claimed mileage which later turned out to be rolled back. He sued
the auctioneers on the basis that he'd paid thousands more than it
was actually worth since the mileage was actually higher than it
had appeared to be. I think the auctioneers got off the hook since
they'd sold it in good faith. In any event, this case did involve
a clear effort to deceive, whereas your complaint about decreased
value due to an accident (whether the repair is done properly or
not doesn't seem to be the main point here, IMHO) looks like it's
going to be a little harder to substantiate.

IOW: You can sell it in good shape for $xxxx, and say nothing about
frame repairs. Buyer eventually finds out; has no claim against you
assuming _you_ made no claim about lack of frame repairs.

Or you can sell it for an amount of $xxxx minus whatever you had to
deduct after your announcement of frame repairs up front. It doesn't
seem to me that you gain anything by doing this, since you cannot
prove that you _couldn't_ sell it for a good price otherwise (i.e.
by keeping your mouth shut).

Perhaps if you sell it without comment, then get an irate buyer
after you who thinks that you misled them by "x" amount of dollars
for this, you could then collect that "x" amount from your insurance
company for its decreased value. But boy, is that stretching things...

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:52:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: CAR 4 SALE AND 350 QUESTION

>>67 c/s conv

>>>67 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:04:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
> > 	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
> > 	-lisa malden: 67
> > 	-myself: 73
> > 	-dan gulino: 75
> > 	-john shelp: 77
> > 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
> > 	-steve ?: 85
> > not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?


Don't forget Chris Sparks '82, my '78, David Brown's '79 (?), Kevin 
O'Brien's '79 Diesel (or is that a 98?)... geez, I know I'm leaving 
someone out....

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:10:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Value of car

On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> Perhaps if you sell it without comment, then get an irate buyer
> after you who thinks that you misled them by "x" amount of dollars
> for this, you could then collect that "x" amount from your insurance
> company for its decreased value. But boy, is that stretching things...

Well, the essential point is that you shouldn't have to lie to be put 
back in the position you were in prior to the incident. If he's asked, 
and tells the truth, the price from the potential buyer goes down. That 
seems unfair from the insured's point of view.

I have heard of many cases where a car a few years old gets into a bad 
wreck. Repairs are still less costly than the value of the (repaired) car 
so the insurance company wants to have it repaired. But the owner rightly 
complains that the thing will never be the same and the insurance company 
ultimately ends up getting the car written off. I don't know how close 
you have to be to the point where repairs are more costly than the car's 
value to get the company to listen to this argument, but it definitely 
happens, at least up here... 


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:25:16 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 71 442 Altenator

CarrDuff@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am restoring a 71 442 W30 Conv..  I need the correct 37A altenator for this
> car.
> Someone has given me a part # of  1100543-37amp.  Is this the correct part #
> , and does anyone have this part to sell ?

This info was obtained from the 71 Cutlass/442 assembly manual:

What kind of options do you have?  Rear defogger?  Power steering? 
A/C?   Standard equipment with none of these or just Power steering uses
1100934 code "DE".
Any Rear defogger option always uses 1100592, code "DS".
With heavy duty cooling and heavy duty alternator with PS, (or A/C and
PS) no defogger uses 1100552, code "SV".

So there are basically 3 alternators used for the 71 442.  Your choice.

Partsvoice listed "Dealer Parts Depot" in Newark,CA (510-797-1711) as
having the 1100934, but it did not have a listing for the other #'s.

Hope this helps.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:04:43 -0300
From: "Jim & Tina R." <rabid@cybrzn.com>
Subject: 1971 Owners Manual For Sale

Please do not respond to the list, as I am not currently on it. Please respond to my e-mail directly:

rabid@cybrzn.com

I have an extra 1971 Oldsmobile Owners Manual (442, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass, F-85, Station Wagon) in pretty much mint condition. Not sure what it's worth. Make me an offer I can't refuse.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:21:58 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: A/F and oil questions...

>When the engine is
>cold, the level is always a 1/4" above the MAX. HOT, which is a good two
>inches below the MAX. COLD level.  I poured in some straight Prestone
>about a month ago (up to the MAX. COLD), and it quickly returned to the
>same level.  The level won't fall any further, even under stress, such
>as half an hour of idling, or opening up the four-barrels for a few
>hundred yards...

You lost me there: your MAX HOT is _below_ the MAX COLD level? And
the level is a 1/4" above HOT?

Assuming that MAX COLD is actually _below_ MAX HOT on the surge tank,
and the problem is that the coolant level won't stay _up_ where it
should, I'd see if the cooling system is holding its pressure, you
don't have any pinhole hose leaks and that sort of thing. Maybe do
a compression test and see if you're getting any bubbles in the
coolant, and look for white stains and drip trails from the weep
hole of the water pump.

And check your coolant mixture: you should be topping up the surge
tank with a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water, not straight coolant;
too much straight coolant and your percentages will start to go up,
resulting in hotter running.

>Since all of this running is short, I keep the oil changed.  I've got
>access to name-brand oils at cost price, so I change the oil once it
>gets real nice and black.  What about DuraLube?  Since most engine wear
>is at start-up, I want to throw in a bottle.

Don't bother. If you don't rev the hell out of your cold engine,
you're not going to cause any excess wear. You have a film of oil
on the engine parts left behind from when the engine was last run
(even if that was a long time ago) that will stand up to initial
engine startup until fresh oil arrives from the pump. Were that not
the case, engines would be routinely seizing up after only a few
days of inactivity, especially in humid climates. That oil film is
tough; it's the engine needs for startup.

>There were a few messages
>posted saying that any more than 1% is bad, but what happens if I could
>reduce that to 0.5% (only throw in 1/2 a bottle)?  What about 100%
>synthetic, such as Castrol Syntec, Q.S. Synquest and so on...

From the little use you're giving the engine, combined with the oil
changes you're doing, it'll be fine with any name brand oil. You'd
more harm by not changing it at all.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:19:19 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

> >Earlier today I was reading an e-mail from this list from someone who
> >mentioned the top ten car by 1/4 mile.  What about the 1968-1969 Hurst
> >Oldses.  Aren't these faster than the W30 that was mentioned?  Also

I think there's a bit of confusion here, that listing of the top ten
cars in Popular Mechanics was _not_ a listing of the top ten fastest
cars of all time.  They simply took ten reputably fast "muscle cars"
from the good 'ol days and the modern era (the point was to find out
whether todays cars are comperable) and ranked those ten in order.  It
was hardly a scientific test, since many of the cars were not purely
stock (like the GN that had a chip and the boost turned up), and they
even said themselves that they were confused by the low W-30 times since
they'd gotten better times with similar cars in the past.  Perhaps the
owner didn't want to flog it that hard. . .

Personally, I think it would have been more fair to do some weighing
based on price.  Like $50k of classic muscle (which might buy 5 restored
cars) vs. $50k of new cars (which might get you two stripped camaros, or
one tire off of a viper).  I don't think the Viper should have even been
in there, that's hardly a car that's affordable and practical for the
average Joe.

Regarding the insurance value thread that's currently going on, My dad
was telling me once of a guy who had a new Mercedes that someone ran
into.  He got a new one, rather than getting that one fixed, on the
grounds that a body shop paint job is not comparable to a factory paint
job (which is done on bare, brand new metal and baked on).

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:26:21 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Value of car

>> Perhaps if you sell it without comment, then get an irate buyer
>> after you who thinks that you misled them by "x" amount of dollars
>> for this, you could then collect that "x" amount from your insurance
>> company for its decreased value. But boy, is that stretching things...
>
>Well, the essential point is that you shouldn't have to lie to be put 
>back in the position you were in prior to the incident. If he's asked, 
>and tells the truth, the price from the potential buyer goes down. That 
>seems unfair from the insured's point of view.

And it is, but until you can quantify it, you can't collect on it.
And my admittedly farfetched example is one way to quantify it: you
have an irate purchaser demanding (in small claims court or at least
via his lawyer) that you refund "x" dollars to him. That "x" amount
is what you demand your insurance company cough up for him.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:27:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: parts for sale

i am interested in 442 grills, and hurst shifter.please reply steven.
 w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:30:08 +0200
From: Roland Klinger <Roland.Klinger@bonn.netsurf.de>
Subject: urgent help needed

Hello Olds specialists, the German Oldsmobile Club will have a big meeting
at August 30/31 in Mindelheim (Bavaria) to celebrate the centennial.
The manager, Miss Evi Jackwerth of Munich just informed me that she has a
1978 Supreme as first price of a tombola in favour of a childrens hospital.

The problem is that someone stole a wheel disk from that car during
transportation. I have the internet at hand and promised her to try to get
one until then.....

I have a 56 Olds and don´t know anything about 78 wheel disks. But she told
me that the disks have a black rim and a black rocket emblem.

Could it be that there is somebody out there with a surplus? I think that
we could manage the deal in time.

Gratefull for your help, Roland Klinger, Niederkassel, Germany

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:51:29 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

Robert Barry wrote:
> 
> OK, but what would you be trying to determine through that formula? Relative
> Performance? That can only be measured in a one-on-one race; if you're first
> across the line, you've got the quicker car.

What I was trying to get at is that a car is impressive or not
considering all
the factors in its performance.  Obviously, well to me, a car is more
impressive
if it has more handicaps and still turn out good times.  No one will
ever have
the fastest car since someone is always going to beat the time.  A while
back
someone wrote that Oldsmobile holds the engine record for the most HP
per CC.
Now that is impressive, even if it isn't the fastest car or the car with
the
most HP.

> Well, you've got to race cars, not engines. Of course, your engine may have
> more hp (definitely more torque), but that's not the point when you're
> talking about the quicker car. The road-tests I've seen of the '68
> 325hp/auto-equipped 442 seem to be around 15 seconds flat; the 5-speed AWD
> turbo Mitsu's can dip well into the 14's, so I'd say he has you covered.

Is that 15 seconds flat based on driving the car in "D"?  I am sure I
can drop
that time if so.  I would drive my auto like a stick and manually change
from
L to S to D.  I have done this with my 82 and have seen significant
results
(2 - 3 seconds).

> So, it's up to you to get another 100 hp out of your engine... :)

So Dr. Bob how much quicker would I be going if I did have 100 hp more?

Let me know.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:23:28 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: A few more questions

Contact Joe Mondello for your roller rockers. He has a kit that is pre
machined. I
used them in my 68' 455 motor - C head - and they bolted right on. 

- ----------
> From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: A few more questions
> Date: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 11:32 AM
> 
> >    This weekend I'm planning on purchasing a rebuilt 455 long block for
> >
> >    1.)  I have a four core radiator.  Will this be enough to cool that
> >monster? (I've actually asked this one before but for some reason never
> >recieved the digest that had the replies to it!)
> 
> Yes; that's what the 442's used, and if it's clean and unclogged inside
and
> out, it should do just fine.
> 
> >    2.)  I've heard that the original 350 mounts could be used.  Are
> >they acutally the same, or do they change the drive train geometries?
> 
> Apparently they raise the engine about 1". I've compared the SB and BB
frame
> mounts, and the holes are in different locations, which seems to confirm
the
> claim made here that you can use BB motor&frame mounts, or SB motor&frame
> mounts (raising the engine 1"), but that you can't mix and match the SB
and
> BB motor mounts with the frame mounts. If anyone can confirm otherwise,
I'd
> love to hear it.
> 
> >    3.)  I'm going to hold out for C Code heads, but they will not come
> >with rocker arms, etc.  Does anyone know a manufacturer who makes a good
> >roller rocker valve train for this engine?  And how much does it cost?
> 
> Comp cams offers a bolt-on kit that people here seem happy with, and it
> costs under $300. I've considered something like the Harland Sharp
aluminum
> rockers, which are ~$220, but then you have to add in costs of machining
the
> heads for 7/16" studs, whereas the Comp Cams setup includes the studs and
> pushrods you need, and requires no machining. I'm still up in the air;
those
> skinny little 5/16" studs would seem likely to snap right off with a
> high-lift/high-pressure valvespring combination, but maybe they're made
> really strong, and engineered very well.
> 
> But, if you're not using a very wild cam, there's not much to be gained
by
> moving to roller rockers. Longer pushrods and shims will give you the
> preload you want (which is why you want adjustable rockers) for 1/3 the
> price. But if money is no object, go with the rollers.
> 
> >    4.)  My plan is to buy a junk late 70's 455 (in semi-reasonable
> >condition) steal it's sheet iron and intake, etc. and use it for a core.
> 
> Well, they stopped making them in '76, and '73 and later ones had an EGR
> intake. Your best bet is to hunt down a '70-'72 4-bbl intake with the
> provisions for an integral choke hot-tube (you don't want to mess with
the
> divorced-choke setup from '66-'69), or go with an Edelbrock Performer to
> save yourself time (though it's probably $100-$150 more than a used iron
> one; I'd go with this more than roller rockers, if your cam will allow
it).
> The oil pan and front cover can come from any car (even your old 350), as
> can the oil-filter mount. Though you'd ideally have Cutlass BB
valvecovers
> with the clearance notches, you can use non-notched valvecovers if you
don't
> mind "tight" clearances (only a problem with power brakes and/or A/C).
> 
> You can use your 350's brackets with no problems; you'll just need the
belts
> for a 455.
> 
> >    6.)  Will the distributor from the 350 work with the 455, or do I
> >need to look into getting one of those, too?
> 
> Yes, your 350 distributor will work. Be careful getting it out. Oh, and
> don't forget to install a new oil-pump driveshaft... ;)
> 
> >    7.)  Same for the water pump...and will it pump enough to cool that
> >badboy?
> 
> Oh, get a rebuilt one for about $35. Don't cheap out here; you'd hate to
> have that bearing start squealing a week after you sealed this up and
bolted
> it in, wouldn't you? Yes, your 350 pump would work, but it's not worth
it.
> 
> >To tell you the truth folks, I'm a bit nervous about this swap.  My
> >car's been down for about a month now, and I'm getting tired of the bus,
> >but I refuse to do a shotty job of this engine swap.  If anyone has any
> >other suggestions on what I could do to make this swap easier, please
> >let me know.  Thanks for everything.
> 
> Get a starter for a 455; while the 350's starter will physically bolt on,
> it's got less torque, and you'll need it to crank over a HC 455,
especially
> when it's hot. I picked up a lifetime warranty one yesterday from Pep
Boys
> for $44, so it's not that expensive.
> 
> Make sure your wiring (starter, distributor) is in good shape; it's
easier
> to repair it when the engine's out.
> 
> Don't force things; if things aren't sliding into place, there's usually
a
> reason why, and a 2-lb. sledge usually isn't the solution.
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 17:42:48 -0400
From: Rick Anderson <randerson@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Delta 88's

LAURA D. STEINKE wrote:
> 
> Sorry about not quoting anyting, but my mail won't let me qoute from the
> digest <grumble>
> 
> Anyway this is to Alain Lachatre about the Delta 88's.  Just wanted to
> pipe in that I've got a 66 Delta 88, I just don't post to the list much.  Actually
> I like the Delta's.  My first one was a 86 (which we finally sold because
> fixing the alternator and transmission all the time was getting to be way
> too expensive) Now I've got the 66 which needs some spiffing up, but I
> like it anyway <happy smile>
> 
> Although I would like make an observation...has anyone else with a
> massive car (like the 66 Deltas) routinly get un-noticed?  Or is it just
> me/my car/my location?  I've noticed that everytime I drive it there are
> many times when others around just don't seem to notice that there is a
> *huge* car sitting there.  Second day I drove it I almost got hit head on by
> someone driving on my side of the road, he was going slow and probably
> paying more attention to the people in the park...I've almost had someone
> merge lanes into me, even when I was enough ahead that I definatly
> wasn't in the blind spot....And the worst, is that at least half a dozen
> times now I've had some close calls while trying to back out of parking
> places in a lot.  From people zooming down the isle while I'm backing out
> to others who start backing out right behind me even though I'm still
> backing out and almost into the middle of the isle.   Maybe it's just where I
> live <grin>  Unfortunatly Pook the ghost car has seemed to stick for a
> nickname by my friends :}
> 
> Okay rant mode off :)  I'm back to work.  Oh and thanks cf for the
> speedometer help, I've got the cable and took a look at where it goes but
> havn't done it yet.  But I did change the oil all by my lonesome (for the
> unmechanically inclined this is a big deal) and it was probably a good
> thing too since I found out that when the engine was being rebuilt they
> just cross threaded the drain screw <grumble>....that mystery of the
> leaky engine is resolved  <grin>
> 
> Laura
> 66 Delta 88 aka Pook the ghost car
I have a 65 Jetstar I and people notice me on the road.  I think it's
due to the throaty dual exhaust coming off the 455 in it.  People around
here don't care what you drive, they just don't pay attention.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 17:55:48 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

Robert Barry wrote:

> A few Oldses are. Trouble comparing times across magazines and across years
> is that there are so many variables involved (driving style, temperature and
> humidity at the track, track surface, fine-tuning of the car, etc), that a
> comparison of two road-test times is not always reliable for determining
> which car is faster. 

I agree here 100%. I just purchased a 1995 Impala SS and road tests list
it as doing mid to high 15 sec 1/4 times. So far I have attained a 14.87
@ 95.1 with a 1.917 60ft time, the car is still bone stock and it even
weighed in at 4,213 lbs last weekend! 

and someone else wrote.....

> >I work with a fellow who has one of those Mitsu-sleezy cars and he
> >claims that he could beat my car in a race (my 68 442).  Well maybe
> >he can, however, lets see him limit his driving to the first 3 gear
> >positions and lets puts equal weights into the car.  I bet we would
> >have a good go at it!

Watch those Mitsubishi Eclipses and Eagle Talons! They may be rice
burners but at my local track there are 3 mid 90's models running low
11's @ 119-125 with only a few mods (bigger turbo, intercooler, exhaust,
etc.) Pick up the latest issue of High Tech Performance magazine to see
one in there. It is sorta funny to see these little cars beating big
block cars, juiced, with slicks every weekend at the track...and they
drive them home afterwards and still claim to get 25-30 mpg.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 18:21:37 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Another Weekend's Adventures

Charley Buehner wrote:

>         It's got Grand National badges on it, but being an '83, I don't know
> that they had a seperate designation between the GN and Turbo Regal.
> Regardless, there was only 3700 or so made, so I think I've got a fairly
> valuable item sitting here.  45 minutes after I loaded it on the trailer
> and wrote out the check, I turned down an offer for nearly five times
> what I paid for it, so I can't have done too bad.  Two hours later, I
> had a guy ask me what my version of a song was (ya know, the saying "I
> got it for a song..."  He threw out a guess that was twice the previous
> offer, and he knew quite a bit about these cars so I guessed I did
> pretty good.

Be sure and check that year again Charley, as an 83 Grand National was
never made..only T-types that year. The GN's were made in 82 and
84...with 82 being ultra rare and highly collectable...only 215 made and
only 16 were produced with turbos. Whatever way you slice it you got a
good deal, enjoy! 

********
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group - Valve Division
1995 DCM Impala SS.....my dream car come true
1980 Olds 4-4-2 W-30.....show car..one of 346 produced
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project 
1985 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4X4......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: urgent help needed

On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Roland Klinger wrote:

> The problem is that someone stole a wheel disk from that car during
> transportation. I have the internet at hand and promised her to try to get
> one until then.....
> 

Roland,

If you cannot find one on the list, try HUBCAP ANNIE
http://www.skyenet.net/hubcaps/

I found this site with and www.excite.com search on 

hubcap + "wheel cover"

You can email them from this web page with the information about the wheel
cover you need.

Alles gute,

Don Sugarman

sugarman@berkshire.net
FAX 413-443-7395

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:25:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: Re: parts for sale

WHAT KINDA OF HURST SHIFTER IS THIS? I.E. DUAL GATE, 4-SPEED,ETC.
THANKS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:23:18 -0400
From: "John Richmond" <richmond@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

In the August/September issue of Muscle Car Review they listed
the 50 all time fastest muscle cars and the 70 442/W-30 was
number 45 with 13.88@95.84. There source was Car Craft 11/69.

John Richmond
richmond@tir.com
Warren, MI
72 442/455

- ----------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:51:02 -0500
From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

- ----------
> From: Daren & Laurie Hendley <daren@revealed.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price
> Date: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 8:45 AM
> 
> > 	-walter 66, tom adams: 66
> > 	-lisa malden: 67
> > 	-myself: 73
> > 	-dan gulino: 75
> > 	-john shelp: 77
> > 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
> > 	-steve ?: 85
> > not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?
> > that's all...
> > 
> > alain lachatre
> 
> Well it's not a Delta but I've got a '65 Dynamic 88. Former list member
> Karl also has one.
> 
> Daren 
I think CF has a 66 98 its not a Delta but its big 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:18:05 -0300
From: "Raul Martinez" <rmart@satlink.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

Looking for Delta 88 Owners?.

Well I have one, 1966 Delta 88 Holiday sedan 425 (Export Version), and I
love it.

Site Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Raul

66 Delta 88



- ----------
> From: Daren & Laurie Hendley <daren@revealed.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price
> Date: Miércoles 6 de Agosto de 1997 10:45
> 
> > 	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
> > 	-lisa malden: 67
> > 	-myself: 73
> > 	-dan gulino: 75
> > 	-john shelp: 77
> > 	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
> > 	-steve ?: 85
> > not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?
> > that's all...
> > 
> > alain lachatre
> 
> Well it's not a Delta but I've got a '65 Dynamic 88. Former list member
> Karl also has one.
> 
> Daren

------------------------------

Date: 
From: 
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:49:50 -0400
From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

>>  -walter ?, tom adams: 66
>> -lisa malden: 67
>> -myself: 73
>> -dan gulino: 75
>> -john shelp: 77
>> -s.dave ward: 78 & 85
>> -steve ?: 85
>> not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?
>> that's all...
>>
>> alain lachatre

I've had four Delta 88s: 3 1969 models (2 four doors and one convertible)
and one 1975 4 door.  The 1975 was an extremely reliable car.  Finally had
to give it up when the gas tank fell off for the second time in a year: the
forward mounts (near the rear axle) were completely gone from the underbody:
salty winters.

Right now I've still got the 1969 convertible: it's it pieces waiting for me
to get the time to put it back together nicely.  Also still have one of the
69 4 doors (minus the engine and tranny).

Delta (and Delmont and Dynamic) 88s: Quality cars!

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:06:40 -0300
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

>In the August/September issue of Muscle Car Review they listed
>the 50 all time fastest muscle cars and the 70 442/W-30 was
>number 45 with 13.88@95.84. There source was Car Craft 11/69.
>
>John Richmond
>richmond@tir.com
>Warren, MI
>72 442/455

The fastest Olds on the list was number 36, a 1968 Hurst/Olds, which ran 
a 13.77 @ 103.91 mph, Super Stock Magazine, August 1968. As John 
mentioned above, the 70' W-30 442 was the only other Olds listed in the 
top 50. #1 was a 1997 Viper GTS (12.05 @ 116 mph) and #50 was a 1970 
Trans Am (13.90 @ 102 mph). Also of interest, the 70' 442 W-30 was the 
only car of the 50 not to break 100 mph (hmmmm...)


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:52:25 -0300
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics?

In a message dated 97-08-06 17:49:22 EDT, you write:

<< > Well, you've got to race cars, not engines. Of course, your engine may
have
 > more hp (definitely more torque), but that's not the point when you're
 > talking about the quicker car. The road-tests I've seen of the '68
 > 325hp/auto-equipped 442 seem to be around 15 seconds flat; the 5-speed AWD
 > turbo Mitsu's can dip well into the 14's, so I'd say he has you covered.
  >>
My 68 442 has the 400 sitting in the garage because its a pooch, I had a 68 
Cutlass 350 4bbl 310 horse with a 3 speed that ran as hard, or all most, as
the 
400/325.  Thank goodness for 462 cubes today for motivation.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:01:52 -0300
From: David1756@aol.com
Subject: Value of car (new question)

List members:
I am currently in hot pursuit of a 1969 Toronado GT.  2nd owner, garaged and
not rusted.  Any thoughts on price, assuming, and I have not checked it over
yet, please remember, that all mechanicals are as represented, in good shape,
boots are solid, and all electrics are working reasonably, if not absolutely
perfectly in every respect.  Car is triple black, and I am seeing it next
Tuesday.  Asking price is $3850.  I think it is probably worth that amount
but will obviously be trying to get it for less.  Can't wait to drive it.  I
have owned and driven (2) 66's, a 68, 69 (Bob Barry has that one) and a 73,
but never a GT.  Anything to be looking for in particular?  How many made
this year?  All advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks -

David Wilk
hoping to be 69 Toro GT owner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:06:38 -0300
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Questions on prices...

To my Olds friends, a forwarded note to you regarding some of the auction 
results that I have posted in the last week or so. It seems that their 
(Kruse International) Proof reading leaves a LOT to be desired... My 
apologies for the mis-information...

- ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date:        08/05  3:08 PM
Received:    08/06  9:15 PM
From:        Tom Hoffer, thoffer@kruseinternational.com
To:          oldsmike@flash.net

Mike Hall wrote:

> I picked up your 97' edition of the Auction results. Saw a couple of
> Old's in there that look odd (price wise).
>
> Pg 198: 1960 Olds Super 88 convertible - $77,750--error-- should read
> $7,750
> Pg 199: 1968 Olds 98 Two Door convertible - $45,000--error-- should
> read $4,500
> Pg 199: 1968 Olds Cutlass convertible - $34,500--Canadain dollars
>
> As I have mentioned some of these prices to my Olds friends, some have
>
> questioned my ability to read and question the proof reading to your
> book. Any pertinent information regarding these cars would be greatly
> appreciated to squash these fears that 1960 Oldsmobiles may actually
> be
> worth something.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Hall
> oldsmike@flash.net

Mike,

I have corrected the prices for you above, sorry for any inconvienience.

 As a favor to us, we would like you to answer a few quick questions.

<snip>



Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 02:49:53 -0300
From: Brad Baker <bjbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Night at the Drags

James P Rand wrote:
> 
>         I've been told that Sat. August 16th  is Oldsmobile  Night at New
> England Dragway in Epping, NH. Can anyone tell me what time the gates
> open/racing starts or any other info I might be interested in or need
> concerning this night or the dragway? I already have directions, but I
> have never previously been. I appreciate everyone's time and I thank you
> for your help.
> 
> Jim Rand
> jprand@juno.com

 Jim. I called the Dragway people. They said the gates open at 8:30 for
pre registretion and at 9:30 for general admission. The cost is $10.
Kids under 12 are free. You can run your car for a time trial if you
want, sometime during the day, I forgot when. There are going to be
several different brackets of racing during the day. They said that it
will all be over about 5:00 PM.
 I will be going there with my family (Boy, had to do alot for talking
to convince Honey!!) for the day. Maybe we'll see you there. My car is
not driveable now, but we are going anyway. That's the Old's Spirit!!

- -- 

Brad  (0-0||||0-0) '68 Cutlass S Convertible
MailTo:bjbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:19:13 -0300
From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Subject: Re: a/f swap(Gen. Patton)

At 10:42 AM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim,
>	Will ask around the Philly area for 65 heads. If you had to compress the 
>shock to get it to bolt in you might be OK in the 65' hardtop . Car should
>be a 
>real missle and handle like crazy. 295/50 and 235/60 tires should fit with
>proper back
>spacing.
>					Good luck
>					The General
>

Gen,
   I think I'm OK with the std shocks. They are fully extended now. I'm also
up on stands with the springs fully extended. My head dilema has me looking
into a cyl head repair shop for new hardened seats and removal of bronze
guides. The valves on the exhaust side are in need of replacement. Gonna do
it right! I have a "g" in the thing now!! Not counting the suspension mods. 


Jim Smith 
65 442

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:06:47 -0300
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

For Alain Lachatre: 1973 Delta 88 Royale Convertible (I'm green with 
envy...)
High: $7,000. (#3)
Low: $4,000. (#3)
Average: $5,500.

Regards,
Mike

>	-walter ?, tom adams: 66
>	-lisa malden: 67
>	-myself: 73
>	-dan gulino: 75
>	-john shelp: 77
>	-s.dave ward: 78 & 85
>	-steve ?: 85
>not to bad in the end. did i forget anybody?

Oh, forgot about this, see my sig. below for my bride's 91' Eighty Eight.



Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:38:20 -0300
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Toro spotted

Driving home the other day, what do I see but Toro taillites.... stop to
inquire at 920 N. Logan [ML King]... no one answers the door, so I leave a
note. Then I notice the cutouts in the rear bumper as I was leaving... Prolly
not for sale. Beautiful baby-blue color car.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:52:59 -0300
From: Jason Adcock <adcockjk@erols.com>
Subject: RE: A/F and oil questions...

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA2B5.019BCFA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dave, I'd not hesitate about getting another 307 motor.  I know it =
sounds like I'm just putting in a plug for the 307 because I drive one, =
but read on.  I have the 307 in an 84 Cutlass.  It weighs about 3500 =
lbs. with fuel and driver.  I have a 3-speed transmission...gears spaced =
out more than an overdrive.  I have a 2.29:1 rear axle...slower off the =
line, but when the secondaries open up, she really runs.  Also, I have =
larger diameter tires than stock...215/70 versus 205/70.  EVERYTHING I =
have done or that is installed on the car besides the engine is against =
the acceleration factor.  The larger tires put more of a strain on the =
motor, the gear ratio is horrible for off-the-line acceleration, the =
transmission with overdrive (I do not have overdrive) would allow for a =
higher ratio (like 3.73:1!) and the motor only makes 150 hp to begin =
with.  I thought my VIN was wrong (they're never wrong, are they?) =
because the way the car would take off...there's no way this car only =
has 150 hp!  But, the torque helps alot 250 lb/ft at 3800 rpm...more =
than ANY of my friend's cars and just 10 lb/ft shy of the F*ord Crown =
Victoria police cruisers.  AND, the motor gets 15 mpg in the city and 20 =
mpg on the highway.  Plus, it's a REALLY smooth engine (in my =
experience).  So, I can't think of another engine I'd actually pay money =
to put in here.  I've heard that the 307's are virtually bulletproof, =
but if it does die one day, a 455 Rocket MIGHT find it's way into the =
engine compartment...

 Jason Adcock
 OCA #028044
 adcockjk@erols.com

 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
 75K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
 Also viewable through http://www.442.com

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Dave Ward [SMTP:ward@ptbo.igs.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, August 05, 1997 10:10 PM
To:	Oldsmobile List
Subject:	A/F and oil questions...

I'd like to pick up a Cutlass within the next year or two:  I want
something a little more performance-oriented, but still an Oldsmobile.=20
Were there Cutlass's made with the 350 or 455?  I already have an Olds
with the 307, and it could fall prey to a scooter...

S. Dave Ward
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:29:47 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Aluminum water pumps

Well, the water pump on my 307 started leaking through the weep hole
today just after lunch.  Looks like I'll be replacing it soon.

Has anyone here used the aluminum Olds water pumps available through the
GM performance parts catalog?  It doesn't say a whole lot about them
other than "for off road use only".  Do they have all the mounting
points required and hookups for heater hoses?  Do they cool at least as
well as the stock ones?

Otherwise, can anyone suggest a replacement source, or a source to stay
away from?  Any reason to prefer a new one over a rebuild?

Thanks!

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:16:22 -0300
From: Chris Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

98's are indeed big. When I park in my garage at home there's about 4 inches
on either end of the car in clearance. Between the size and the big block,
I'm not worried about people cutting me off...

Unfortunately all the wiring work I did a few months ago fried itself this
weekend. Must redo now, thank god for my recent j-yard acquisition of a 
not-too-hacked up harness from a 66 98. Lesson here: Spares are good, especially
hard to find mechanical parts like wiring harnesses. 

I'd hate to think of what this would cost in the repro market, if I could even
find it. J-yard one cost me $30 with all the color coded wires _and_ switches.

Gotta love that.
cf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:35:45 -0300
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: More a/f, more oil...

Thanks to everybody for their help with the a/f problem.  I've got to
stop writing e-mails late at night...I can't believe I go the MAX. HOT
and MAX. COLD lines mixed up...sorry!  No, I'm not a backyard mechanic
at all...I should work for F*rd.

I managed to screw up two things in that mail...first, there was the bit
about the hot/cold lines, but to add to the humility, I even typed in
the wrong engine size.  I meant 350, not 305...

About the a/f problem....the constant level (when the engine is cold),
is about 3" under the MAX. COLD line.  Every now and again I'll fill it
up 1/4" above the MAX. COLD line, but after any length off running, it
falls back down to the same 3" inches below MAX. COLD--it's not actually
*MAX* COLD, it's *FULL* COLD.  Is this anything to worry about?

I've been told that DuraLube is a hazard...I'll sell the bottle I've got
to a Ford owner.  Anyway, what about the new Fram DoubleGuard filters? 
They already have a PTFE compound in them, so this eliminates the use
for any further additives--are they a wise choice?  It isn't the same
stuff as DuraLube, is it?  If it is, I don't want it.  If it's a SAFE
additve they have, are they really worth 2 or 3 times the price of a
normal Fram filter?

S. Dave Ward	Mailto:Ward@ptbo.igs.net

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.--115K mi.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.--110K mi.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4 (305 TBI--45K mi.)

Here's a good line for all you Toro owners...

"You could give me a Mercedes, or an Audi Quattro, but I'd still rather
drive my Olds Toronado!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:48:23 -0300
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Value of car

In a message dated 97-08-06 15:33:32 EDT, you write:

<< On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Andrew C. Green wrote:
 > Perhaps if you sell it without comment, then get an irate buyer
 > after you who thinks that you misled them by "x" amount of dollars
 > for this, you could then collect that "x" amount from your insurance
 > company for its decreased value. But boy, is that stretching things...
  >>

PS The jurys award in that punitive damages decision was seriously 
reduced by the judge and of course appealed by the dealer....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:26:15 -0300
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: FW-Olds list meeting in AUGUST

THURSDAY, THURSDAY, THURSDAY!!!   AUGUST 21, 1997 under the lights from
4-7PM in the parking lot of the beautiful HOLIDAY IN WEST- Conference Center,

7501 West Saginaw, Lansing. The Oldsmobile Capital of the Nation!!!  Stock
cars,
race cars show cars!!!   The first-ever Olds/Toro Internet and Road
Assistance 
get-together.  Bring your own and bring you OLDS!   BE THERE!!!!

This is Greg Beeaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    idea and so I am passing
this
on to everyone again, because not everyone has seen this.  Like me for
example and such  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:52:35 -0300
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: digest 783 replies

>Tim,
>       You know that you are getting a 425 not a 455 engine. Wouldn't want
>you to get it home then find out.   Steve

I did know it is a 425, but the good block and heads are what I was after.
Never know maybe build a 425 instead.

[[Tim, go for the 425 build while you still can. BTW, get the flexplate from
that Toro! You'll need it with that crank, whether you use it or sell it off.
If you want to make a 455 out of that motor you'll need the .921 lifters, about
$100 a set [presume you want new lifters!], a late 400 = 455 crank & rods, and
a set of pistons of course. Surely you're aware that the 425 crank is forged,
whereas 99.9% of all 455 cranks are cast. You be the judge. ]]

- --------------------------
        I was talking with Ken Reese of Specialty Olds last week and he
mentioned that there should be a restored A-body chassis at the Nationals
this year with the W-43 Hemi 455 installed in it. Can't wait to see this
monster. Gotta get some pictures of that.
Jim Chermack

[[ Really? And where, pray tell, did they GET this motor? IOW, how can *I* get
one? ;-)  ]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:12:38 -0300
From: Chris Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88/ auction price

These 88's from 66 share many, many components with the 98's of that year,
if any of you all have questions about electricals, brakes, trim or whatever,
feel free to ask me. Frankly the 98's were just a longer frame and different
trim level 88, from the manufacturers perspective. 

Tip of the day: didja know you could swap in the disc brake system from
a big Olds from 1970 and have better, safer stopping capability? Not a 
trivial fix, but a good one!

A-body content: 442's and Cutlasses were also made that year and they had
the same gear shift lever end on the tree shifted automatics.   ;)

all the best,
cf

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:47:23 -0300
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Value of car

In a message dated 97-08-06 15:33:32 EDT, you write:

<< On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Andrew C. Green wrote:
 > Perhaps if you sell it without comment, then get an irate buyer
 > after you who thinks that you misled them by "x" amount of dollars
 > for this, you could then collect that "x" amount from your insurance
 > company for its decreased value. But boy, is that stretching things...
  >>

In as much as the issues here seem to be both value and ethics I thought 
perhaps the following information might lend some lite albeit non specific.

There was a situation a couple of years ago that involved the purchase of a
"new" untitled BMW from a dealer that had a couple thousand "demo" miles
on it.  The buyer of the car was sold the car under the understanding it was
quite simply a new car with demonstration miles on it that allowed for price 
discounting.  After owning the car for a short time he realized that a fender
had been repainted.  Upon further investigation he discovered that the car
had 
been damaged and repaired, apparently x number or items brought this to his
attention and made this a situation that was unacceptable to him.

He then determined thru communication with the dealer that they would not 
be willing to "adjust" this situation financially to his satisfaction, and
the only recourse was thru legal means.  He then sued  the dealer for
misrepresentation
of this vehicle and also for lost value.  Apparently a jury agreed with him
and
thought that the gentleman did indeed have "lost value" and awarded him a 
reward of $4000 for the car.  They then also awarded  punitive damages
against
the dealer to this gentleman for 2 point some odd million dollars!!!  NOW
THATS
STRETCHING THINGS!!!  ...TIM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:55:49 -0300
From: jrjet@mtco.com (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Subject: Re: f-body disc brakes on my 67 f-85

>>>>>>wait, your saying that i can put REAR disc brakes on my F85!!!!!
>> ALLLLLLLL
>>
>> RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!  thanx for the info. NOw let me ask u
>>something. what about the front disc, can i or cant i put them on the F85
>>????  Ill b getting the whole car, if you need any parts let me know.  Funny
>
>You can use those discs, but you need special ball joints (F-body taper with
>the A-body mounting; H-O used to offer this, but went under, and someone
>else has picked up their business; check the archives for this discussion),
>and either tubular upper A-arms or an offset upper mount.


I have the global west tubular uppers with poly bushings on my 71
convertable and love the way it handles.  The f-body spindles made a big
difference on it.  I found a kit used but never installed from H-O, with
short springs. Easy to do but there springs not the greatest, one saged
after about a year.  I also installed Koni shocks at the same time.

Global-West makes a kit to do the conversion also.  If I remember the upper
ball joint in the tubular unit is a machined down vega lower balljoint.
Shouldn't wear out though with it not carring any wieght.

Tim

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#  Updated Weekly!                             *
*  New Recipe Section (Always In Progress!)!   #
#  http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3053     *
*  email:  jrjet@mtco.com                      #
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:15:00 -0300
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: tire size question

Hi everyone,

The other day I was getting some new tires for the '83 Ciera I'm buying (still
waiting for my friend's dad to get back from vacation to sign over the title)
and while I was at the tire place I figured I'd ask for prices on performance
tires for my '85 Cutlass. The counterperson said that she needed a tire size
before she could quote a price for me.  My question is what is the BIGGEST size
that can fit on my Cutlass with the stock suspension? no raising the body
higher. (I have to UNlower it to begin with)

I'm not even sure what I have on there now, maybe 205/80's???  So if some one
could offer some sizes just so I have an idea of where to start.  Thanks a lot.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
'83 Ciera ( still waiting :(

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:24:06 -0300
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: older digest replies

[[my comments in brackets as usual... -Chris-]]

I am writing to ask for ideas and success stories about 455's. My
Convertible has recently disowned one of its conrods.  I would like to
rebuild with more power, it was a '76 vintage engine and lacked
performance.  New engine will get 2x4's, wife gave me the intake for

[what a woman!]

Christmas. I would like to keep it streetable but still have 400+ h.p.  I
have a line on a '66 425 out of a Toro that has "c" heads, if I got them -
any word on porting and putting in the larger valves,
recomendations on type of valve.
Tim

A reply included:
The Toro block would be nice for your 455 buildup, especially with that
forged crank.

[ayep. pre-68 Toros used the rare & I think desirable modern-cam-angle 425
motor. Forged crank. BV C heads. What more could you ask for?]

- --------------------------
[[ Met a fine Rallye 350 the other night, in Lansing. Curiously, the paint code
was "- -"...

 --------------------------
From: larry polesnak <bullets@sgi.net>
Subject: Reverse Lens (wanted)

Hi ,looking for a 1962 olds reverse light lens. Mine has a slight crack
in it. Thanks Larry Polesnak..

[[ OK, larry, is that a Cutlass, a 98, 88, what? Have '61 Cutlass pcs. ]]

- --------------------------
From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Subject: Re: Attention all 1964-65 442/Cutlass Owners...

I have a 64 442 that has custom House of Kolors Brandy Wine Paint
base with Deep Candy Purple and Kandy Pink flames. The car sits on
Cragar Quick Trick Chrome Wheels and Br Goodies. It has a 350 cu
Rocket with the Edlebrock Power Package.403 4a heads,hedders,hi po
- --snip--
Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

[[ huh? you put 84cc 4A heads on a motor that was supposed to have at most 80cc
heads? What, you like 7:1 compression? ]]

- --------------------------
[[ The other day, it occurred to me that I oughta relate the most
obvious Lansing landmark- the Eckert power station has three huge tall
smokestacks. This power plant mainly serves the needs of the Olds plant. Not
surprisingly, it's right next to the main Olds plant. These stacks are so
tall, you can see them from pretty much anywhere in Lansing. And, right to the
north of them is the Olds HQ building, assembly plants, etc.

Another thing you old rusty car fans might want to drive by & see...
C-head 1966 Delta? is at a car dealer just north of Jolly Rd, on the E. side of
Logan/King. Faded blue-green that 'most all such cars were back then. All
original 4-dr granny's car. ]]
- ------------------

From: John and Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Subject: Where does that RTV go?

My wife and I are just finishing our first 350 Rocket rebuild and were
wondering what happens to the extra RTV that oozes into the engine via
sealing the oil pan and intake gaskets? We're using High temp gasket
maker, the orange stuff.

[[ Heh, should asked first. It generally squeezes off and goes on to clog the
oil pump inlet, the radiator, etc. Folks, Silicone is a great thing, but is NOT
the be-all & end-all of sealers. Use it *sparingly* on water (coolant) seals.
For intake fuel/air passages, oil pan, intake end rails, etc. I much prefer
reddish or brownish gooey gasket goos. Like aircraft stuff by permatex.
Form-a-gasket even. Spray on Hi-tack. Minimal silicone! Can I get a witness?]]

Is it possible to put BB heads on a 350?
Matt Cremean

[[ Been answered. Yeah, what he said. Can be done, not a good idea generally.]]

    330's:
Most, if not all(little fuzzy here, help me out guys) had steel cranks.

[[ Ayep, all 330's used steel cranks. All Olds motors have forged rods. Is there
really a mfgr so CHEAP that they use cast rods?! Let me guess.... ]]

I have several if you want to go in that direction. Externally same. Heads will
need hardened valve seats and stainless steel valves. Good luck.     about
9.5-1 compression. Edelbrock makes a nice cam and manifold combo. forget the
W31 cam

[[ Conveeeeeniently forgot to  mention that pesky 45 degree cam bank angle. How
do you suppose that Edelbrock cam will work in the wrong block?! Answer: not
worth a dern. Don't ask how I know that. I would not go so far as to say SS
valves are "needed." Good idea, sure, but at $180+ a set... not a step to take
lightly. I say, avoid the 330 unless you need it for originality. The 350 is
far, far easier to get cam, pistons, etc. for. Then there's that little matter
of the pushrods hitting on the head if you put 350 heads on a 330 motor, no, it
was the other way 'round. Don't ask. -Chris-]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #788
********************************

