To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #726


oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 20 June 1997        Volume 01 : Number 726

Re: I need pictures for my page
Re: Legal Problems
Re: 73 Omega for sale
Where are the darn things?
Engine Stall
Re: Engine Stall
option trivia
Re: Where are the darn things?
455 with turbo 350
Re: option trivia
Re: Engine Stall
Re: Overheating 455
Salvage yard "inventory" list
Re: 455 with turbo 350
Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]
Re: Salvage yard "inventory" list
Re: 455 with turbo 350
Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG
Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
PAinting Chrome---
Re: Overheating 455
Re: Overheating 455
Re: Intrigues in stock
68 cutlass question
Re: F85 vs Cutlass
442 - Here we go again
Re: Lansing Room needed
Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
Re: F85 vs Cutlass
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re: Looking for replacement panels
Re: I need pictures for my page
Power Disc Brakes
cars for sale
Carb Question
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re: Overheating 455
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re: 68 cutlass question
69 442 air cleaner
750K Cutlass?  was Cars for Sale
Re: 442 - Here we go again
Re: F85 vs Cutlass
Re: cars for sale
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re: 442 - Here we go again
'69 442
Re: Engine Stall
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re: 69 442 air cleaner
Re: Carb Question
Re: 442 - Here we go again
442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MECHWARRIOR2MASTER@prodigy.com ( MAT M NADROFSKY)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:46:44 -0300
Subject: Re: I need pictures for my page

I Have a few pics scanned already, but they are only of the outside
of the car.  I am going to get my new photos developed and then have
them scanned down at city hall. Once I get em, I'll send you the
pic's, including a nice little Tire Annihalation session. heheh :)
I'll send you a close up pics of the front end on my '70 Olds, maybe
you can use it as an Icon or something!

____
Mat Nadrofsky
70 Olds Cutlass

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:00:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

I go to court tomorow on an unfair moving violation.  I had 6 people in my car
 ('70 442 with bench seat) and only 5 seat belts.

     Sorry Brad, but every factory installed front bench seat in the A-body
     had three sets of seat belts.  All rear seats also had three sets of
     belts.  This was a federal requirement and there was no way for GM to
     get out of it.  Either yours has been removed or the bench is not
     original in that car.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

From: MECHWARRIOR2MASTER@prodigy.com ( MAT M NADROFSKY)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:01:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 Omega for sale

Yeah, he had ties on it, but after driving the car for 2 years, he
twisted it up pretty bad.  The drivers side door was an inch out of
whack with the passengers side, and there were cracks forming in both
the frame and front/rear windows.  I suppose a nice 6-Point roll-cage
would be in order if the Omega Project (sounds Military don't it) was
to get under way.  I saw a Monza( I know its not Olds) at a local car
show and he had put an 8-Point in the little thing.  Looked like crap
but stood on its bumper!

____
Mat Nadrofsky
70 Olds Cutlass

------------------------------

From: "Jason Adcock" <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:17:20 -0300
Subject: Where are the darn things?

Where is this "body tag" everybody speaks of?  I've seen lots of traffic
about decoding these things, but all I see on my car is the VIN plate?  Is
the body tag on the firewall or something?

Thanks.

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 OCA ª028044
 adcockjk@erols.com

 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
 75K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
 Also viewable through http://www.442.com

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: "Jason Adcock" <adcockjk@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:13:56 -0300
Subject: Engine Stall

Does anybody have problems after a long drive with the a/c on and the
engine stalling in reverse?  Here's the symptoms:

I drive to work with the a/c on...about 15 miles.  I drive into the parking
lot and start to back into a spot.  I put the trans. into 'R' and the
engine falls to idle speed, normal.  I step on the gas...engine still at
idle, sputtering, little Reverse motion.  After a couple more sputters, the
engine dies.  Put it in 'N', start 'er up and put it in 'R' again, all with
the a/c on.  Engine falls to idle, again...step on the gas...engine revs
smoothly and I'm backing into my spot.

Is there a computerized valve in the transmission that resets when the
computer's power is turned off (or on)?  This has happened intermittently
since I got the car two years ago, but it is very pronounced after a drive
in 85+ F weather and the a/c on?

Any suggestions?  Should I take it to a professional?

Remember, I say I know alot about cars, but I can't troubleshoot them worth
a darn.  Thanks for any information.

Cheers.

+------------------------------------------------+

 Jason Adcock
 OCA ª028044
 adcockjk@erols.com

 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
 75K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
 http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
 Also viewable through http://www.442.com

+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: phouse@thor.feith.com (Peter L. House)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:40:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall

That problem you are having sounds like the problem that I had with
my '86 Brougham and now having with my '87 Salon. I believe that
the anti-stall solonoid on the driver side of the carb. is probably
not pushing the linkage to keep that car running. The Solonoid is
the vaccum type, so I would check the vac. hose going to the
solonoid to see if it has any cracks or if it is loose.
Keep me posted. I will check mine sometime this week..

Peter L. House
'87 Salon
phouse@feith.com

------------------------------

From: Curt Salada <csalada@astea.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:20:28 -0300
Subject: option trivia

>        The W-29 option is the code for a 442. It was used from 1964-1967
>and then again from 1972-1980 or so as the 442 was an option on a Cutlass or
>F-85. During the 68-70 years the 442 was it's own separate series of cars.
>Documenting W-29 requires paperwork and the presence of some manditory
>options. Hope this clears it up for you.
>
>Jim Chermack

I had never heard that W-29 was used from '64-'67, though I'm sure
you're correct, Jim.  I thought that the 4-4-2 option in 1964 was B-09
and assumed it carried on until '68.
>
>Strange thing about the build sheet though.....the W-29 is an OPTION
>package to signify a 442 package on a Cutlass, not as an option ON a
>442...
>
>Mike Rothe

I agree -- it is bizarre.

Curt Salada
1971 Cutlass for sale -- see it at
http://scils.rutgers.edu/~djcohen/curt/olds

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:58:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Where are the darn things?

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> Where is this "body tag" everybody speaks of?  I've seen lots of traffic
> about decoding these things, but all I see on my car is the VIN plate?  Is
> the body tag on the firewall or something?
>
Jason,

It looks like you have a 1984 Cutlass, so therefore, you MIGHT have a
cowl tag under the hood, on the driver's side, under the windshield.  I
say MIGHT, because my 1985 did NOT come with one.  I ordered mine new,
so I know it was never there, and when I called the Arlington plant,
they said if they had them, they had them, if not, of course they
couldn't install them.  Not every car came with one.  The reason he said
was because your service information is on a sticker under the TRUNK
lid.  It lists the codes for everything that came on the car from the
factory.  For example, if your car came with N66 wheels, it will have an
N66 somewhere on the sticker.  This sticker, though not as durable as a
plate, is far more valuable for restoration as far as an option
standpoint.  It's like a mini-build sheet.  In fact, the build sheet
mine had didn't have very much information on it at all, except for 15 X
7 chrome wheels, special paint, and W-42 (442) option and the VIN.

Check there on yours, for on OLDER cars, they put a body tag on the cowl
which gave basic info, and options were verified by the build sheet.

I hope this clears up your questions.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "Ira H Siegelman" <IRA_H_SIEGELMAN@vnyao.dcmdw.dla.mil>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:20:44 -0300
Subject: 455 with turbo 350

     All,

     I would like to know if a turbo 350 could be used with a mild 455
     instead of a turbo 400. Will the turbo 350 handle the torque/hp of the
     455? Will it mount up to the 455? Does anybody have any experience
     with this?

     thanks

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:35:33 -0300
Subject: Re: option trivia

At 05:20 PM 6/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>        The W-29 option is the code for a 442. It was used from 1964-1967
>>and then again from 1972-1980 or so as the 442 was an option on a Cutlass or
>>F-85. During the 68-70 years the 442 was it's own separate series of cars.
>>Documenting W-29 requires paperwork and the presence of some manditory
>>options. Hope this clears it up for you.
>>
>>Jim Chermack
>
>I had never heard that W-29 was used from '64-'67, though I'm sure
>you're correct, Jim.  I thought that the 4-4-2 option in 1964 was B-09
>and assumed it carried on until '68.
>>
>>Strange thing about the build sheet though.....the W-29 is an OPTION
>>package to signify a 442 package on a Cutlass, not as an option ON a
>>442...
>>
>>Mike Rothe
>
>I agree -- it is bizarre.
>
>Curt Salada
>1971 Cutlass for sale -- see it at
>http://scils.rutgers.edu/~djcohen/curt/olds
>

Curt

        Yes I stand corrected. 64 was a B-09 option code for the 442. I've
had two and I should have remembered that. I was brought home from the
hospital in a brand new 64 442 Cutlass Coupe that my father purchased two
weeks before I was born. Maybe that's why I love Oldsmobiles.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:42:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall

On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:13:56 -0300 "Jason Adcock" <adcockjk@erols.com>
writes:
>Does anybody have problems after a long drive with the a/c on and the
>engine stalling in reverse?  Here's the symptoms:
>
>I drive to work with the a/c on...about 15 miles.  I drive into the
>parking
>lot and start to back into a spot.  I put the trans. into 'R' and the
>engine falls to idle speed, normal.  I step on the gas...engine still
>at
>idle, sputtering, little Reverse motion.  After a couple more
>sputters, the
>engine dies.  Put it in 'N', start 'er up and put it in 'R' again, all
>with
>the a/c on.  Engine falls to idle, again...step on the gas...engine
>revs
>smoothly and I'm backing into my spot.
>
>Is there a computerized valve in the transmission that resets when the
>computer's power is turned off (or on)?  This has happened
>intermittently
>since I got the car two years ago, but it is very pronounced after a
>drive
>in 85+ F weather and the a/c on?
>
>Any suggestions?  Should I take it to a professional?
>
>Remember, I say I know alot about cars, but I can't troubleshoot them
>worth
>a darn.  Thanks for any information.
>
>Cheers.
>
>+------------------------------------------------+
>
> Jason Adcock
> OCA ª028044
> adcockjk@erols.com
>
> 1984 Cutlass Calais RWD V8
> 75K Miles, CC1, F41, LV2, N66
> http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/jason/cutlass.html
> Also viewable through http://www.442.com
>
>+------------------------------------------------+
Jason, I don't know what year your car is, but I do know that on some
cars, there is an A/C valve that is hooked to the carb. It is supposed to
kick up the idle when the A/C is on. You may take a look for it and check
it out. It will be on the right front of the carb(as you look at it) and
I think will have a single green wire coming out of it. I believe that it
uses the carb frame as a ground. It is adjustable, so if it does kick out
when  the A/C is on, maybe it's just not far enough. Good luck !

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: "corey" <dayc@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:40:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

Paul,

The 455's are notorious for being hot motors.  I would suggest in addition
to the norm installing electric fans and also an oil cooler!!

Corey D
70 Cutlass S -455
dayc@ix.netcom.com

- ----------
> From: PaulP34167@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Overheating 455
> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 9:07 PM
>
> In a message dated 97-06-18 13:53:23 EDT, you write:
>
> > Hi All,
> >          A friend of mine recently had a blown 455 olds motor built for
his
>
> > 65
> >  442. It is a hampton 6-71 running 8 to 1 compression and mild cam. He
is
> >  having trouble with this engine overheating in a very shot time (6-8
> miles).
> >  It has a new waterpump and I asked him to recheck it to make sure the
> >  impeller is not freewheeling at times. He had a new radiator made for
it I
> >  believe it is a 5 core (didn't know they made them that big) got a 160

> > degree
> >  stat in it. I live about 70 miles from him so haven't looked at the
car my
> >  self. Do blown cars make that much extra heat?. What else could he
check
> >  before he puts the car on a trailor and heads to the guy who built the
> motor
> >  (about an 8 hour drive). Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.
> Steve
>
> Does the car have the proper fan and fan shroud?  I just read an
excellent
> article about supercharging in Super Ch*vy (sorry!).  The article said
the
> compression process itself causes more heat to be produced.  It suggested
> installing an intercooler (similar to a turbocharger intercooler) to
reduce
> the heat.
>
> Paul Pate
> 70 Cutlass S
> 84 Camaro LG4
>

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:34:43 -0300
Subject: Salvage yard "inventory" list

Here's the list I've been promising for a couple of days. Salvageable means ok
 to repairable. Karl, anything missing?

A & B Used Auto & Truck Parts
1664 Guetschow St, South Beloit, IL 61080-1862
Phone: (815)389-2326

'57 88 4 door, but can't remember
     engine w/"16" heads -TURNS
     side, rear glass -GOOD
     doors, fenders -SALVAGEABLE

'61 Pontiac Tempest (currently upside down)
     (I though these were only experimental -according to CC article)
     4 wheel ind. suspension
     rear transmission & drivetrain intact
     other stuff -?? (worth a check if you have one of these)

'62 88
     2bbl engine (394) w/air cleaner -TURNS
     rear side glass -GOOD
     dash pad is complete, unripped, very plyable, needs cleaning -GOOD

'64 98 2 door
     4bbl engine (394) w/air cleaner (Ultra high comp sticker)
     49K miles (884M235179 on driver A piller tag)
     power win, seats
     all glass -GOOD
     dash -GOOD
     seats: front: RIPPED, FADED, rear: just FADDED
     no rear axle
     both bumpers -GOOD

'64 98
     4bbl engine (in trunk), block ª585786-4, "23" heads
     red valve covers, air cleaner w/metal rocket symbol
     4x10 front speaker -GOOD
     all glass -GOOD
     both front quarters -GOOD
     doors -REPAIRABLE
     front bumper -GOOD

'65 88
     engine high comp (red valve covers), heads off
     thrown piston (actually no piston, just the rod little end poking up)
     passenger door-GREAT

'66 Toro (VIN 39687EVC2447
     engine, B block, B heads
     doors, door glass -GOOD
     mirrors, bumpers -SALVAGEABLE

'66 Toro
     engine B block, B heads, no trans
     glass, rear bumper, doors -GOOD

'67 Cutlass C/S 4 door
     2bbl, 5 heads
     hood, doors -SALVAGEABLE


'71 ?? probably Cutlass
     rear defog glass -GOOD
     open diff.

'77-'78 Cutlass
     front fenders -GOOD

'79 Toro

Miscell (can't exactly identify the year)
??   Dynamic 88
     driver's A piller tag is 612M22367
     engine 394 2bbl, "20" heads
     intake 580676
     doors, trunk lid, bumpers -OK

??   Cutlass
     trunk, approx '64 -GOOD (within 20 feet of '57 88)

??   International 1100 4 door pickup
     engine intact
     some interior

motor
     C heads, D block
     G intake 397357
     switch pitch
     ex man A-384785, T-3987094

motor
     engine, 1 block, 3 heads, 4bbl, divorced choke (rusty)


Seward's (Seward Auto Salvage Inc
2506 E Vincent Rd, Milton, WI 53563-9624
Phone: (608)752-5166):

'63 Super 88 4door holiday coupe blue (63-3539)
     no engine
     bumpers rusty, but intact
     interior gutted
     sheetmetal -SALVAGEABLE
     glass -GOOD

'64 Dynamic 88
     intake 573388
     heads "18"
     fenders rusty
     sheet metal -GOOD
     glass -GOOD

'65 Dynamic 88 4 door black (VIN 356695M340842)
     engine 425 2bbl
     front bumper has rusty corners
     sheet metal -GOOD

'69 Delmont 88 (VIN 354698M115642)
     bad int/ext
     glass (no windshield) -GOOD

'69 Delta 88 (body tag: ST 69 95437LAN340447
                        310 40B
                        O3D)

'70 Delta 88 2 door convertible (VIN 35460E134078)
     been raced

'72 Vista Cruiser
     engine F block, Ga heads
     left front fender -GOOD
     vista glass -GOOD
     right rear door -GOOD

------------------------------

From: "Blaines" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:10:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 with turbo 350

>
>      All,
>
>      I would like to know if a turbo 350 could be used with a mild 455
>      instead of a turbo 400. Will the turbo 350 handle the torque/hp of
the
>      455? Will it mount up to the 455? Does anybody have any experience
>      with this?
>
>      thanks

I asked the local transmission "expert" the same question, and he told me
that as long as you drive respectably, the TH350 should easily be able to
withstand the power of a 455.  By "respectably", he meant not drag racing
every weekend, etc.  Several people have told me that the TH350 can be
built so that it can easily withstand 750 hp, which is more than double
what a stock 455 puts out.  Plus, the TH350 uses less HP to turn than the
TH400.  I know several people who are into drag racing that have well-built
TH350's behind their 454's and 455's for that reason, and they don't seem
to have many problems.


------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:52:26 -0300
Subject: Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]

In a message dated 97-06-17 02:13:09 EDT, you write:

>
>  Karl,
>  You can remove that hex nut with an open end wrench, it's klugey, but it
>  works fine. I've done this many times. I think it's a 5/8's open end, if
>  not try 9/16's. Good luck
>  cf
>

So, you managed it w/o taking apart the Upper to lower control arm assembly?
Wow. I assume you had the tire off. Does it work better with the spring
somewhat compressed (i.e. jack on frame or control arm?) It just seemed that
if I changed jack from frame to control arm that I might  have a little more
room below/behind the hex nut for tools.

One thing's for certain, I am definitely going to measure the cable with it
on the car, order the new one, and do the entire swap in one sitting. I
figure that if it is a few inches long I can find a longer route for the
cable to travel.

Anyway.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88  (now with extra curves)
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Errand. Getting Raspberries?


------------------------------

From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:01:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Salvage yard "inventory" list

At 06:34 PM 6/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Here's the list I've been promising for a couple of days. Salvageable
means ok
>to repairable. Karl, anything missing?

>'64 98 2 door
>     4bbl engine (394) w/air cleaner (Ultra high comp sticker)
>     49K miles (884M235179 on driver A piller tag)
>     power win, seats
>     all glass -GOOD
>     dash -GOOD
>     seats: front: RIPPED, FADED, rear: just FADDED
>     no rear axle
>     both bumpers -GOOD

The VIN indicates that its a V-8 equipped (obviously!) '64 98 built in
Lansing, Michigan


>Miscell (can't exactly identify the year)
>??   Dynamic 88
>     driver's A piller tag is 612M22367
>     engine 394 2bbl, "20" heads
>     intake 580676
>     doors, trunk lid, bumpers -OK

I believe the third digit in the VIN indicates that it's a '62.




************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
************************************************

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:02:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 with turbo 350

At 07:20 PM 6/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>     All,
>
>     I would like to know if a turbo 350 could be used with a mild 455
>     instead of a turbo 400. Will the turbo 350 handle the torque/hp of the
>     455? Will it mount up to the 455? Does anybody have any experience
>     with this?
>
>     thanks
>
>
Ira

        The TH350 will handle in exccess of 550 lb ft of torque if built
right. I have used one behind a brutal 455 for 5 years with NO failure of
anything. It would spin the tires for 30 feet going into second and chirp
them hard going into third. Keep the fluid changes to 12,000 miles and put
an aux. cooler on it. As a note it takes 14-18 less horsepower to turn the
TH350 compared to a TH400. So your freeing up some horsepower. It also has a
slightly lower first gear. The weakest point of the TH350 is the Sprag and
the output shaft. If you really want to put some power to it you must
replace these. Install a good shift kit to keep the slippage and heat out of
the tranny.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:17:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG

> Is there a computerized valve in the transmission that resets when the
> computer's power is turned off (or on)?  This has happened intermittently
> since I got the car two years ago, but it is very pronounced after a drive
> in 85+ F weather and the a/c on?

Recently, a friend was commenting that his recently acquired '87 442 would
idle more roughly in reverse than in drive.  I thought this was odd, and
proceeded to review some Diacom data I had recently captured.  The
park/neutral switch was out of adjustment, so when the car was in reverse,
the computer thought it was in Park.  The P/N switch does just as the name
implies; it indicates when the gear selector is in the Park or Neutral
position, so that the computer can tailor the spark advance/fuel mixture
for a stable idle under all conditions.  Since this steering column
mounted switch has a built in ratchet-type adjustment, it was relatively
easy to remove the underdash hush panel and fix the problem.  With
the car in park, I rotated the white plastic housing clockwise (as
one would observe if seated behind the steering wheel) until it reached
the end of its travel.  Now, the P/N switch information was correct.  This
is definitely something to check out.

Peter recently noted that checking the ILC (Idle Load Compensator) might
be a good idea.  Some VIN Y (all CCC models?) 307's have a spring loaded
vacuum diaphragm in place of the usual electric solenoid to help control
idle speed.  Coincidentally, I was just tinkering at this yesterday on my
'88 307.  I was investigating why the idle speed would drop so much when
the A/C compressor was engaged (everything was still smooth, but I needed
an excuse to use Diacom <g>).  The ILC plunger should always be in contact
with the throttle (mine was a good 1/4" away).  The service manual says to
adjust the stop (hold the body with a 1/2" spanner to avoid damage) so
that while the vacuum hose is disconnected (plunger fully extended), the
car should be at 700 rpm while in gear.  After several turns, this was
accomplished - I never realized the original setting was so far off!
Now, I am amazed at how stable the engine is: the car will idle at 550 rpm
in gear, when the A/C is engaged, the ECM sends a brief signal to a
solenoid (cuts off vacuum temporarily) which gives the throttle a 'bump'
in anticipation of the compressor coming on, the rpm jumps to 600 and then
slowly decreases back to 550 rpm.  A similar routine occurs when the
compressor disengages.  When the car is placed in Park, the increase in
vacuum causes the plunger to retract somewhat, so the engine stabilizes at
an idle speed of around 775 rpm.  Also, for the ILC to work properly, the
carburetor's idle speed screw should be set to just under 500 rpm in
drive, otherwise, the throttle will be resting on this and not the ILC
plunger.  Who needs an electronically controlled IAC when a simple vacuum
system works so well?

BTW, I also decided to adjust the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor); somewhat
inspired by Tom Lentz's posting on this subject last year, I fabricated an
adjusting tool out of some thin sheet metal and solder.  As per the
manual, I used a 5/64" drill bit and a ª9 self tapping screw to extract
the plug.  The voltage at idle was 0.94: the manual says the TPS should be
adjusted if this value is over 0.70.  After a bit of turning in the
clockwise direction, the TPS reading came down to the desired 0.50 (as per
an '88 S/M) volts.  After knocking the plug back in (they say to use a new
plug or thread locking compound), the TPS then read 0.48 volts.  The car
has run flawlessly since new even with a maladjusted TPS, so I can't
say I've noticed any improvement.

Kevin Wong
Toronto, Ontario

------------------------------

From: BigEJ@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:19:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!

>
>Then Olds also disgraced the name in '65, and in '66, and '67, and '68 and
'>69 and '70 and so on.  A TH-400 was available in '65 and up 442's.

Just one small point;  Olds didn't offer a TH-400 on anything except full
sized cars until 1967.  442s had two-speed automatics until 1967!

Elephant Engine Ernie

------------------------------

From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:23:19 -0300
Subject: PAinting Chrome---

I've painted / seen painting done on crome, and here's my experience:

If it doesn't take abuse, krylon or any paint will hold, but not too
good.  To do a good cheap job, use a self-etching primer (they have some
kind of acid in them)  In fact, if you double the 'booster' for some of
these primers (sorry, can't rememember the name), and accidentally paint
a chrome lock, you will NEVER get it off, it eats into the chrome.  With
some sanding and maybe another coat of less-agressive primer, chrome can
be repainted with usually good success..

(BTW, my dad owns a small autobody shop, so I've seen these in action,
but I don't do it myself, and hence don't know brand-names or the real
specifics, if anyone's really interested I could ask..)

...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
..............................................................

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:51:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

Paul,
        I don't believe it has a shroud but has a 17" electric fan. I am
wondering if it is running lean. I think he is runnig 2 650 edelbrocks.

                                                                        Steve

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:54:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

Dave,
          Thanks for the advise. He has always wanted a blown 455. I have
seen some street driven blown Olds cars around I have to get to some of these
guys so I can see how they are set up.
                                                              Steve

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:54:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Intrigues in stock

Greg Yonge wrote:

> What about the 3800 II supercharged in the Intrigue? (I don't know much
about the > engine itself.. is it an OK engine or does it have problems?)

I believe the super charger is only available on the Buick Regal.  and
maybe the Pontiac Grand Prix?  But it is not an option on the Intrigue.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Tom_Simpson@notes.amdahl.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:00:59 -0300
Subject: 68 cutlass question

I see such great responses here, maybe I can get one of those with my
question.
I have a plain old 68 Cutlass 'S' convertible I bought brand new.  It has
the plain old
350 4bbl and has always been just a plain old ton of fun.

My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
it out (which is
quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
about 50 hp.

When I had the engine rebuilt, we went down to 8.5 to 1 compression, which
lost a bit
of the front end zip it used to have (or at least as I remember it).

Anyway, does anyone have any comment on whether this would be a good
investment
or if some other cheap things might help.  Your comments are greately
appreciated.

thanks,
Tom Simpson   (Tom_Simpson@amdahl.com)

------------------------------

From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: F85 vs Cutlass

Thomas Martin wrote:

> My 76 Olds Service manual makes some references to a F85 for some
> operations, like F85-Cutlass-Omega or something like that.  Was there a
> 76 F85?  Was is an overseas model like the Rust@ng here, T5 overseas?

Starting in '76 the F-85 was the "budget" Omega coupe model.  It lasted
through '77, but that was it.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:36:25 -0300
Subject: 442 - Here we go again

MROTH wrote:

<<The 442 for 69 was in it's base form...a 442.  That's because, here again,
as James Chermack said, the 68-71 442 was its own separate body line.  You
won't find the word "Cutlass" anywhere on it. >>

Having owned a 65 422 (my first new car), still own a 67 since new, and
having had numreous other years as well, what you said there is 'bout close
to fightin' words.

Are you saying that 64-67 and 72 442 optioned Cutlass' aren't real "base
form" 442's?  Wait just a minute. The first 442 (or 4-4-2, let's not start
that again) was in '64, not '68.  All 64-72 4-4-2's were based on the Cutlass
platform. In fact, in spite of the separate model designation many 68 442s
came out with Cutlass body plates. Does that count as "Cutlass anywhere on
it"?  Furthermore, a 442 optioned Cutlass doesn't show up on an insurance
policy as a "muscle car". To this day both our '67 442 and 70 SX are insured
as Cutlass'.  That is a distinct financial advantage and one reason I held
onto the 67 through the "muscle car wars" right up 'til today. The model vs
option argument is not really indicative of anything versus performance which
is the essence of "442".

4-4-2 originally stood for 4 barrel carb, 4 speed trans and dual exhaust. It
then was changed to mean 400 cubes, 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust. By 1970
it meant whatever and kick a**.  Consider this too. The 66 tripower W-30 is
arguably the fastest 442 Olds made due to the high revving 400 and lighter
weight of the overall car. Even at that, a recent Mucscle Car Review
comparison put the 66 W-30 at the highest actual rear wheel horsepower of
_ANY_ muscle car tested at that comaprison. It beat, I seem to recall, two 70
W-30s by bunches and ran much quicker times as well.  Is a 66 that can run
circles around the newer models a real 442? I hope so.

 _That's_ a real, "base 442" IMO.

Also, to correct a previous post someone put up, the TH-400 was not factory
installed in the Cutlass/442 until 1967.  If you ordered a 442 with an
automatic before that year you got the much inferior 2-speed Jetaway trans.
In 67 a TH-400 was also available with the 330 V-8 in the wagons. Had a 67
Vista Cruiser once, dropped in a 455. Great tow vehicle! Wish I still had it.
And every other Olds that has passed through my fingers in the last 40 or so
years.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: CRuper1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:14:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Lansing Room needed

In a message dated 97-06-19 12:05:07 EDT, you write:

<< For anyone who has a room booked for the Centennial, check with your hotel
to
 see if they are putting you in a double. If so, you can help Greg out, and
make
 the stay a little cheaper for you and Greg.


 David Brown >>

Gee, where have I heard this before......  oh yeah, that was from me.....
<grin>

BTW, I'll give everyone the same reasoning I used when I gave Dave the
idea....
Less spent on the hotel, the more spent on the car.....  of course, we both
agreed, and we'll have more to spend there because of it......

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:16:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!

- ----------
> From: BigEJ@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
> Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 5:19 PM
>
> >
> >Then Olds also disgraced the name in '65, and in '66, and '67, and '68
and
> '>69 and '70 and so on.  A TH-400 was available in '65 and up 442's.
>
> Just one small point;  Olds didn't offer a TH-400 on anything except full
> sized cars until 1967.  442s had two-speed automatics until 1967!
>
> Elephant Engine Ernie
>
>

Oops, sorry 'bout that.  My point was that 442's after '64 could be had
with automatics.

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:17:32 -0300
Subject: Re: F85 vs Cutlass

In a message dated 97-06-19 21:31:58 EDT, you write:

>
>  Starting in '76 the F-85 was the "budget" Omega coupe model.  It lasted
>  through '77, but that was it.
>
>  Paul
>  --
>
Stands to reason. The Big Three et alii are notorious for doing that. A car
whose model name connotes a reputation of sorts is phased out only to
reappear as a pathetic clone of whatever is at hand. Witness the rebirth of
the Le Mans.

Yeah. Great.

It almost makes you wonder why Chrysler called the "Hi!" car Neon instead of
Charger.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  E. G. R. - Probably generates better mileage than I get.
              (but it couldn't possibly be as fun!)



------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:39:16 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

At 10:00 PM 6/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I see such great responses here, maybe I can get one of those with my
>question.
>I have a plain old 68 Cutlass 'S' convertible I bought brand new.  It has
>the plain old
>350 4bbl and has always been just a plain old ton of fun.
>
>My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
>it out (which is
>quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
>about 50 hp.
>
>When I had the engine rebuilt, we went down to 8.5 to 1 compression, which
>lost a bit
>of the front end zip it used to have (or at least as I remember it).
>
>Anyway, does anyone have any comment on whether this would be a good
>investment
>or if some other cheap things might help.  Your comments are greately
>appreciated.
>
>thanks,
>Tom Simpson   (Tom_Simpson@amdahl.com)
>
>
Tom

        The HEI alone will NOT give you 50 hp. It may give you 10-15 but
that's the outer limit. Here are some suggestions to help. Have the
distributor recurved and install a Ignitor system. This will allow you to
keep your original distributor. If you put the HEI in you will not get the
air cleaner back on. It has interference with the HEI cap. A mild cam and
supertune your carb. This ought to put alot of life back in it. Also if you
used Permatorque  head gaskets when you rebuilt it these lowered compression
another .25-.5. I only run steel shim head gaskets when I do a rebuild. Hope
some of these things help.

Jim Chermack
OCA ª24275
70 Cutlass Supreme SX W-32
72 442 (350)
86 Ninety Eight
94 Cutlass Supreme
96 C-1500

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:41:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for replacement panels

At 04:31 PM 6/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>I am restoring a '65 F-85 convertible and I can't seem to find anyplace
>that has patch panels for the rear quarters. I was wondering if anyone knew
>where I could locate them. Thank you
>
>Jason
>lwolf@skypoint.com
>

Jason

        Nobody that I know makes them for it. I had to make my own when I
did my 64 442. I used 22 gauge sheet metal and hand cut and welded my
sections behind the wheels up. It's a pain but you can do it with some basic
tools. Do you have have access to a welder?

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:34:05 -0300
Subject: Re: I need pictures for my page

In a message dated 97-06-19 02:50:21 EDT, you write:

>  latvis@globalserve.net

------------------------------

From: "M. Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:38:54 -0300
Subject: Power Disc Brakes

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC7CF9.2F316B00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i have a 69 cutlass s conv. with manual brakes. Does anyone know of a =
kit to convert to power assist with front discs?
what would it cost  me?
mick


- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC7CF9.2F316B00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"Trident 4.71.0544.0"' name=3DGENERATOR>

</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have a 69 cutlass s conv. with manual =
brakes. Does=20
anyone know of a kit to convert to power assist with front discs?</FONT>

<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>what would it cost  me?</FONT>

<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mick</FONT></P>

</BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC7CF9.2F316B00--

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:09:14 -0300
Subject: cars for sale


If anyone in the Pacific Northwest is interested in a project car I'm
putting mine up for sale tomorrow morning.  Causing too many problems at
home.  I live in Clarkston, WA, near the Wash/Ore/Ida junction.

1967 442

Engine Details:
   *Engine is fresh, with less than 10 hours run time
   1970 Toronado 455
   Edelbrock Performer Intake
   Carter 650cfm
   Hedman Hedders
   Nodular Crank
   *All other innards stock*

Other:

   B&M Starshifter
   1973 TH-400
   2.78 'P' axle, standard differential
   Power steering
   Rebuilt alternator
   New waterpump
   New battery
   New belts and hoses
   4 way drums, no power
   New brake shoes up front, good ones in rear from parts car
   Rebuilt wheel cylinders on all 4 corners
   2 sets of front buckets, black; slight cracking in one set, other is
pretty rough
   3 dashes ---> will make one good one
   spare tranny - '66 Switch-pitch TH-400 w/o converter
   All painting materials included:
1 Gallon K-200 primer and all necessary activators and reducers
2 quarts DP-90 epoxy primer/sealer and all necessary activators and
reducers
2/3 gallon Feather Rite body filler
1 quart All Metal aluminum body filler
*no paint included*

Car needs:

   Body work on roof, hood, trunk (bondo filling or dent pulling)
   Minor filling/smoothing on quarters
   Rust repair on lower Front windshield flange
   Dent repair on front fenders
   Front windshield

   *all side mouldings have been removed and holes have been welded up, but
all trim   pieces (except wheel opening mouldings) are included

   Many other parts also

   Asking $2500/offer/trade, $3500 invested

   It's a sad sad thing that I am forced to sell it.  I've been working on
it for almost 2 years now, and was really looking forward to driving it
this summer.  I guess I will save that enjoyment for another project
another time.

E-mail me privately for more details if necessary

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442
ewok@clarkston.com

------------------------------

From: Ed Rogers <rhubarb@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:09:41 -0300
Subject: Carb Question

Hi all,

I have a 69 4-4-2 convertible with a 73-76 J head 455 (I know, I know) and
a Turbo 400.  Anyway, the previous owner put on a Holley single pump carb
and Holley Street Dominator intake.  Both of which I don't like.  Runs
rough at idle, and has always had a hesitation at any level of
acceleration.  I have tracked the hesitation problem to a lack of vacuum
leading to improper advance.

Anyway, I want to change the carb and maybe the intake.  My goal is
smoooooth running, not max power (the car is plenty fast for me now).
Numbers matching is not a concern.  Price is.

Auto Zone has a rebuilt Quadrajet that they say will work on my engine for
$189 with a 1 year warranty.  Any reason not to do this?  Will this bolt
onto the Street Dominator intake? What do I need in the way of "jetting" (I
know just enough to be dangerous). Hints?  Tips?  Better sources for a
carb? Warnings?

Thanks in advance,

Ed

69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:16:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

In a message dated 97-06-19 21:49:14 EDT, you write:

<< Subj:68 cutlass question
 Date:97-06-19 21:49:14 EDT
 From:Tom_Simpson@notes.amdahl.com
 Sender:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
 Reply-to:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca


 I see such great responses here, maybe I can get one of those with my
 question.
 I have a plain old 68 Cutlass 'S' convertible I bought brand new.  It has
 the plain old
 350 4bbl and has always been just a plain old ton of fun.

 My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
 it out (which is
 quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
 about 50 hp.
  >>

Just my .02  but when I had my Cutlass S 68 350 4bbl conv and did the switch
to
HEI the first problem I had was the air cleaner no longer fit...So take this
into consideration and put the money for the air cleaner into the budget, I
think my MOROSO was 40 bucks give or take.   As for 50 more
HP,,,,NO,,,,,acouple more or so maybe, start a little easier maybe, although
every Olds Ive ever had  has had  its own personality when it came to being
started, some ya pump, some ya dont etc...

What I do know is I ended with over 100 bucks in the
distributor,coil,wires,air cleaner
and I put my old point distributor back in because it gave me a lot more
tunability for my driving style...being able to adjust both timimg and dwell.
Some have made the swap and were very happy with it, I was not....JMO

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:44:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

In a message dated 97-06-19 21:31:49 EDT, you write:

>        I don't believe it has a shroud but has a 17" electric fan. I am
>  wondering if it is running lean. I think he is runnig 2 650 edelbrocks.

Isn't it necessary to run 2 electric fans on high horsepower engines such as
this?
Explain how the fuel mxture being lean would affect the temp?  That's a new
one for me.

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:08:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

In a message dated 97-06-19 21:49:14 EDT, you write:

> My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
>  it out (which is
>  quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
>  about 50 hp.
>
>  When I had the engine rebuilt, we went down to 8.5 to 1 compression, which
>  lost a bit
>  of the front end zip it used to have (or at least as I remember it).

50 hp!!  Maybe 10.  The biggest advantage would be that you would not have to
adjust points.
Another option would be to install an aftermarket electronic conversion kit
($60-100).

8.5:1 compression seems a little low.  I would think 9.5:1 would have been
better.  Were you having problems before?  Most modern performance cars have
10:1 and higher compression ratios.  For example the P*rshe Boxster has an
11:1 compression ratio.  Does anyone have any theories on this?  What IS the
ideal compression ratio?

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:53:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

Tom_Simpson@notes.amdahl.com wrote:
>
> My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
> it out (which is
> quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
> about 50 hp.

Is the 50 hp more correct?  Someone please concur.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: JNelson751@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:18:19 -0300
Subject: 69 442 air cleaner

can anyone on the list tell me if a 68 toro air cleaner is the same
size,shape, and has the snorkle pointing the same way as a 69 442 air
cleaner?
thank you
jeff nelson
69 442 conv

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:18:55 -0300
Subject: 750K Cutlass?  was Cars for Sale

In a message dated 97-06-19 01:40:21 EDT, you write:

> 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, 750K miles, $10,000, San Angelo, Texas
Day: (
> 915) 942-0149  Eve: (915) 942-0149

750,000!?  That's 28,000 miles per year!  How many timing chains has this car
been through?  That must be a record.

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S (149K)
84 Camaro LG4 (91K)

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:57:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Here we go again

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> platform. In fact, in spite of the separate model designation many 68 442s
> came out with Cutlass body plates. Does that count as "Cutlass anywhere on

How can you tell if you have Cutlass body plates versus 442 ones (1968
in
particular)?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:21:33 -0300
Subject: Re: F85 vs Cutlass

KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-06-19 21:31:58 EDT, you write:
>
> >
> >  Starting in '76 the F-85 was the "budget" Omega coupe model.  It lasted
> >  through '77, but that was it.
> >
> >  Paul
> >  --
> >
> Stands to reason. The Big Three et alii are notorious for doing that. A car
> whose model name connotes a reputation of sorts is phased out only to
> reappear as a pathetic clone of whatever is at hand. Witness the rebirth of
> the Le Mans.
>
> Yeah. Great.
>
> It almost makes you wonder why Chrysler called the "Hi!" car Neon instead of
> Charger.
>
>   Karl Aune
>   1965 Dynamic 88
>   Chicago, IL
>  Member, OCA
>
>   http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html
>
>   E. G. R. - Probably generates better mileage than I get.
>               (but it couldn't possibly be as fun!)
>
> Had a 70 Charger and it would haul.  Don't you remember the two or three
other Faux "Chargers" Mopar had out?  I wouldn't haqve been caught dead
sitting in one.  They were truly tacky.

Don Sowers
3 Cutlass rides and a GS455

------------------------------

From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:25:58 -0300
Subject: Re: cars for sale

Suzanne Rousseau wrote:
>
>
> If anyone in the Pacific Northwest is interested in a project car I'm
> putting mine up for sale tomorrow morning.  Causing too many problems at
> home.  I live in Clarkston, WA, near the Wash/Ore/Ida junction.
>
> 1967 442
>
> Engine Details:
>    *Engine is fresh, with less than 10 hours run time
>    1970 Toronado 455
>    Edelbrock Performer Intake
>    Carter 650cfm
>    Hedman Hedders
>    Nodular Crank
>    *All other innards stock*
>
> Other:
>
>    B&M Starshifter
>    1973 TH-400
>    2.78 'P' axle, standard differential
>    Power steering
>    Rebuilt alternator
>    New waterpump
>    New battery
>    New belts and hoses
>    4 way drums, no power
>    New brake shoes up front, good ones in rear from parts car
>    Rebuilt wheel cylinders on all 4 corners
>    2 sets of front buckets, black; slight cracking in one set, other is
> pretty rough
>    3 dashes ---> will make one good one
>    spare tranny - '66 Switch-pitch TH-400 w/o converter
>    All painting materials included:
>         1 Gallon K-200 primer and all necessary activators and reducers
>         2 quarts DP-90 epoxy primer/sealer and all necessary activators and
> reducers
>         2/3 gallon Feather Rite body filler
>         1 quart All Metal aluminum body filler
>         *no paint included*
>
> Car needs:
>
>    Body work on roof, hood, trunk (bondo filling or dent pulling)
>    Minor filling/smoothing on quarters
>    Rust repair on lower Front windshield flange
>    Dent repair on front fenders
>    Front windshield
>
>    *all side mouldings have been removed and holes have been welded up, but
> all trim   pieces (except wheel opening mouldings) are included
>
>    Many other parts also
>
>    Asking $2500/offer/trade, $3500 invested
>
>    It's a sad sad thing that I am forced to sell it.  I've been working on
> it for almost 2 years now, and was really looking forward to driving it
> this summer.  I guess I will save that enjoyment for another project
> another time.
>
> E-mail me privately for more details if necessary
>
> Paul Rousseau
> *1967 442
> ewok@clarkston.com
Paul,

Sounds like it's time to keep the 442 and shed the home problem.  Just
kidding.  My wife bothers me about my hobbies from time to time also.
Sorry you have the problems.

Don Sowers

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:03:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

PaulP34167@aol.com wrote:

> 8.5:1 compression seems a little low.  I would think 9.5:1 would have been
> better.  Were you having problems before?  Most modern performance cars have
> 10:1 and higher compression ratios.  For example the P*rshe Boxster has an
> 11:1 compression ratio.  Does anyone have any theories on this?  What IS the
> ideal compression ratio?

Why can't someone make a distributor than optimizes itself
(electronically) and
can replace an existing points type distributor.  It would handle the
vacuum
advancing and such.  Oh just a wish....


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:19:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Here we go again

 the 68-71 442 was its own separate body line.  You
> won't find the word "Cutlass" anywhere on it. >>
>
> Having owned a 65 422 (my first new car), still own a 67 since new, and
> having had numreous other years as well, what you said there is 'bout
close
> to fightin' words.
>
> Are you saying that 64-67 and 72 442 optioned Cutlass' aren't real "base
> form" 442's?  Wait just a minute. The first 442 (or 4-4-2, let's not
start
> that again) was in '64, not '68.

Chill out, Captain Cutlass.  I'm on your side.  I proudly display my rocket
logo.

The first 442 was an OPTIONED Cutlass under B-09.  Or F-85, buyer's choice.
 Either way, the first time it was it's own body line was in 1968.  Sure it
was a F-85 body style, but it had it's own special VIN designation.

Here again, I don't intentionally step on anyone's toes about their Old's.
But before you come out swingin', get your facts straight.  I was not
saying that anything earlier or anything later than the 68-71 442's weren't
indeed 442's, all I was trying to point out is that during those years,
when you ordered a 442, you weren't ordering a Cutlass with the 442 option.
That's why they didn't have the word "Cutlass" on them.  In short, during
those specific years, the 442 WAS NOT an option package.  IT WAS for all
other years.  Look it up.  What I meant by base form, was what you got as
standard equipment, with no options.  I adore and cherish each and every
442 I see, (yes, even the 78/79 turtlebacks) for they were the 60's
Oldsmobile performance legacy that enjoyed many years of success.   You can
argue about which year is meaner, faster, uglier, etc., but you can't argue
that they aren't still cool after all these years!!!!!

As in the famous words of Forrest-"That's all I have to say about that."

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: dgerow@stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:36:24 -0300
Subject: '69 442

Thanks for the help with the W-29 option.  I have a scan of the build
sheet if you'd like to get some numbers.  I would really help me out.
Thanks again!
- --
Daniel R. Gerow
dgerow@stonehill.edu
WSHL-FM 91.3 Stonehill College Radio
- ------------------------------------
http://www2.stonehill.edu/wshl
- ------------------------------------
Homepage: http://www2.stonehill.edu/~dgerow

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:39:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall

> That problem you are having sounds like the problem that I had with
> my '86 Brougham and now having with my '87 Salon. I believe that
> the anti-stall solonoid on the driver side of the carb. is probably
> not pushing the linkage to keep that car running. The Solonoid is
> the vaccum type, so I would check the vac. hose going to the
> solonoid to see if it has any cracks or if it is loose.
> Keep me posted. I will check mine sometime this week..

I have the same problem with my '86 Supreme (although it has a '78 260 V8
in it -- the engine itself has always had the same problem).  When I drive
on the highway with the AC on, when I come to a stop, it stalls.  I turn
the AC off and try again, and it cranks right back up.  I've never found a
solution, so I'll be interested to see what everyone has to say about this
problem.  Keep it coming!

8)
peg
'78 Cutlass Calais
'86 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Little Wolf" <lwolf@skypoint.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:04:16 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

>
> My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
> it out (which is
> quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
> about 50 hp.

Is the 50 hp more correct?  Someone please concur.

Chris Sparks


I don't think 50hp is acurate but does increase power and efficiency
though....But by tweaking your standard point distributer just right you
can turn more horse power than with a standard HEI ignition.
lwolf@skypoint.com

------------------------------

From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:37:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 442 air cleaner

> can anyone on the list tell me if a 68 toro air cleaner is the same
> size,shape, and has the snorkle pointing the same way as a 69 442 air
> cleaner?
> thank you
> jeff nelson
> 69 442 conv


Yes and no.  Snorkel on the Toro faces the driver's side, 442 faces the
passenger side.  Will it fit?  Yes.  Will it be correct?  No.  If the car
is original, your heat stove and pipe won't fit the driver's side.   Also,
I do believe because of this, the PCV is on the passenger valve cover on
the Toro, so you would have to change grommets around.  Of course if you
have no desire to leave it stock, and don't have a heat stove, or care
about one, then it should do OK.

My 2 cents
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "Little Wolf" <lwolf@skypoint.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:10:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb Question

Auto Zone has a rebuilt Quadrajet that they say will work on my engine for
$189 with a 1 year warranty.  Any reason not to do this?  Will this bolt
onto the Street Dominator intake? What do I need in the way of "jetting" (I
know just enough to be dangerous). Hints?  Tips?  Better sources for a
carb? Warnings?


Well replacing it with a 'rebuilt' Quadrajet may not be a good plan because
you can pick up a new carb from the right places for just a little more and
they have never been rebuilt.  The thing with Quads is that they are
generally known to either work or they don't....and if the person
reduilding them doesn't adjust them on an engine they need a few critical
adjustments to give you what you are looking for.
lwolf@skypoint.com

------------------------------

From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:44:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Here we go again

> How can you tell if you have Cutlass body plates versus 442 ones (1968
> in
> particular)?
>
> Chris Sparks

Chris, in simplest terms,  the 442 body plate starts out like ST 68
344XXXX,  where the 3 is Oldsmobile, and the 44 means the 442.  if it
starts out like 336XXXX then the 36 designates the Cutlass.  There were
many discussions a few months back about the 68 and 69 442's, (and even my
69 H/O) having the 336XXXX instead of the 344XXXX body number.  The
conclusion was this.  It's the VIN that counts.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:37 -0300
Subject: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

                              C&M Classic Auto

**** New stuff to list****
___________________________________________________
66 442 Fenders (small holes)  $650.00 pr
66 Tri-carb setup (restored, complete, not OAI)  $inquire
67 Cutlass/442 Fenders (nice)  $650.00 pr
68 Cutlass/442 Fenders (mint)  $850.00 pr
68 Lower Dash (radio area)  (nice)  $25.00
68 Under Dash Map Light  (nice)  $20.00
69 442 Hood Tongue (mint)  $35.00
70-72 Vista Cruiser Tailgate Switch Bezels  $5.00 ea
70-72 455 Engine Mounts  $40.00 pr
68-72 350 Engine Mounts  $38.00 pr
71-72 Sport Mirrors (excellent cond)  $100.00 pr
70 TH350 Trans (Built for 550+hp, shiftkit, HD parts, w/converter)  $350.00
TH350 Shift Cable Bracket  $15.00
72 10 Bolt 2.73:1 (open rear)  $75.00

New Old Stock (N.O.S.) Parts for 1964-1972 Cutlass/442
_______________________________________________
66-67 425/400 Fuel Pump (N.O.S.)  $40.00
66-72 SSI Center Caps (N.O.S.) $34.50 ea
68-75 SSII/III Center Caps (N.O.S.) $34.50 ea
69 Cutlass RH Grilles (N.O.S.) $70.00 ea
70-72 Cutlass/442 LH Fenders (N.O.S.) $450.00 ea
71-72 Turn Signal Lens (N.O.S.)  $90.00 pr
71-72 LH Sport Mirror-Remote (N.O.S.)  $125.00 ea
71-72 Stone Shields (N.O.S.) $38.00 ea
71-72 Headlight Housings (plastic) (N.O.S.) $90.00 pr
71-72 Cutlass Rear Bumpers (N.O.S.) $380.00 ea
71-75  Cutlass Fender Emblems (N.O.S.)  $19.50 ea
72 Cutlass Supreme & Hurst/Olds Grilles (N.O.S.)  $125.00 pr

Used Parts
_______________________________________________
64 Cutlass/442
RH Headlight Bezel  $15.00
Front Bumper Core  $40.00
LH/RH Taillight Lens  $8.00 ea
F-85 Fender Emblem (nice)  $5.00
V-8 Emblem  $5.00

66 Cutlass/442
66-69 SSI Wheels  $40.00 ea
Headlight Bezels  $40.00 pr
Cutlass Front Grille  $40.00
LH Rear side molding  $10.00
Front Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Window Molding Set  $65.00 set
Exterior A-Pillar Chrome Moldings  $15.00 pr
F-85/Cutlass Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea

67 Cutlass/442
Cutlass Headlight Bezels  $55.00 pr
Supreme/442 Side Moldings  $15.00 ea piece
Rear Window Molding Set  $65.00 set
Front Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
A Pillar Moldings  $15.00 pr
Deluxe Full Wheel Covers  $20.00 ea

68 Cutlass/442
68 Cutlass/442 Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
68-72 Cutlass S LH Rear Side Glass (clear)  $45.00
RH Headlight Plastics  $75.00 ea
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set
68 Cutlass/442 RH Fender (nice, small ding)  $300.00
68 Cutlass/442 Std Horn Button (black, nice)  $7.00
68 Air Cleaner Stove Pipe (pipe only)  $10.00
68-72 Rear Hood Molding  $20.00 ea
68-72 Cowl mouldings  $25.00ea
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Set (black, mint) $25.00 pr

69 Cutlass/442
442 Grilles (nice)  $180.00 pr
69 442 Rear Bumper (nice)  $130.00
Hood Tongue  $15.00 ea
Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
Hood Louver Chrome  $35.00 pr
Hood Louver Moldiings  $35.00 pr
Windshield Molding Sets  $65.00 set
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set

70 Cutlass/442
SSII Wheels (set of 5)  $200.00
70 F-85 Horn Button (cheap style wheel, excellent)  $10.00
70 Oldsmobile Options Folder  $5.00
69-70 C/S Front Hood Rocket (nice)  $12.00
70 Cutlass Trunk Rocket (nice)  $10.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 4)  $160.00
S Hood Chrome Vents  $35.00 pr
S Hood Vent Moldings  $35.00 pr
Cutlass Supreme RH Door (rust free)  $110.00
"S" Pillared Coupe Door Panels (good cond)  $40.00 pr
Cutlass Rear Bumper Core  $90.00
Black A/C and Non A/C Dash Pads  $100.00 ea
Blue Auto Shift Console  $125.00 (w/shifter)
70-71  Glove Box Doors  $15.00 ea
70-72 RH Fender (needs patch panel)   $40.00
70 Cutlass 'S' Tail Light Lens   $10.00 ea
70-72 Cutlass S Vinyl Top rear moldings (few pits)  $8.00 pr

71 Cutlass/442
Cutlass Supreme Grilles   $125.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 5)  $200.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 4)  $160.00
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $35.00 pr
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
71 Front Rocket Emblem (nice)  $5.00

72 Cutlass/442
72 Cutlass/442 Owners Manual  $7.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 5)  $200.00
SSII/III Wheels (set of 4)  $160.00
72 Cutlass Supreme Side Moldings (excellent)  $110.00 set
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $35.00 pr
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00

Toronado Parts
68 Toronado Front Bumper (good cond) $50.00
68 Toronado Rear Bumper (decent cond)  $40.00
66-67 Toronado Chrome Dash Bezel (Mint)  $40.00
66-68 Toronado Pitman Arm (excellent cond) GM  $45.00
66-? Toronado Front Brake Drum  $15.00
66-69 Toronado Interior Moldings (Ivory)  $5.00 ea
66-69 Toronado LH & RH Rear Side Windows  $30.00 ea
66-68 Toronado Back Glass  $40.00
68-69 Toronado Headlight Vacuum Module  $40.00
68 Toronado Air Cleaner Pie Tin  $5.00
66-68 Toronado Trailer Hitch Assm.  $20.00

We have more parts in stock, and more coming!  The reproduction 70-72
Cutlass/442 Auto Trans Console Indicators $24.00 ea. plus $3.00 shipping.
We have also reproduced the 63 Starfire console shift lens $35.00 plus $3.00
shipping. We have recieved a 67-69 2 spd auto shift lens and will be
reproducing these for the Jetaway Trans. cars. Looking for a decent 64-66
auto trans shift lens for reference to reproduce.

Jim Chermack
OCA ª24275
'70 Cutlass SX W-32
'72 442
'86 Ninety Eight
'94 Cutlass Supreme
'96 C-1500
Virginia  Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª726
********************************
