To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #727


oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 21 June 1997       Volume 01 : Number 727

Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG
Re: 442 - Here we go again
Re: Legal Problems
Re: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!
Resurrected Names (WAS: F85 vs Cutlass)
Re: 68 cutlass question
Re[2]: 68 cutlass question
Re: Re[2]: 68 cutlass question
'64 Starfire f/s
Re: Legal Problems
Will these parts fit???
Wil these parts fit???
Re: Legal Problems
Re: Power Disc Brakes
Re: Overheating 455
Re: 442 - Here we go again
Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]
Re: 68 cutlass question
Will these parts fit 80-442
Back in The Saddle Again...
Re: engine/head id
KEYS
Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG
442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Oldsmobile Police

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:27:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG

Kevin Wong wrote:
>
> > Is there a computerized valve in the transmission that resets when the
> > computer's power is turned off (or on)?  This has happened intermittently
> > since I got the car two years ago, but it is very pronounced after a drive
> > in 85+ F weather and the a/c on?
>
> Recently, a friend was commenting that his recently acquired '87 442 would
> idle more roughly in reverse than in drive.  I thought this was odd, and
> proceeded to review some Diacom data I had recently captured.  The
> park/neutral switch was out of adjustment, so when the car was in reverse,

Hmm, interesting.  That's something I never would have thought of.
Definitely worth checking out!

The idle load compensator on my '84 H/O is an electric solenoid.  I'd
imagine the '84 VIN Y is the same.  Mine idled rough (in drive and R)
with the A/C on, so I backed the solenoid out a half-turn.  Now it works
great.  The solenoid is the film-canister sized device on the front
driver's side corner of the carb, one wire out the front and a shaft
with a hex head out the back.  Turn that hex headed shaft to adjust.

>
> BTW, I also decided to adjust the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor); somewhat
> inspired by Tom Lentz's posting on this subject last year, I fabricated an
> adjusting tool out of some thin sheet metal and solder.  As per the

Ingenious little tool!  I should probably attempt making something like
that.  Adjusting the TPS sure helped me out, I'm glad it worked for you
too.  Did you remember to disconnect the battery to reset the computer
after adjustment?  I forgot that step last time, and the car ran even
worse until I remembered.

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:11:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Here we go again

MROTHE wrote:


> The first 442 was an OPTIONED Cutlass under B-09.  Or F-85, buyer's choice.
>  Either way, the first time it was it's own body line was in 1968.  Sure it
> was a F-85 body style, but it had it's own special VIN designation.
No WAY!!????  They made a Cutlass AFTER 1967?? What did they look like??

                            <BIG Grin>

- --

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:41:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

> Brad Bowles wrote:
> >
> > I go to court tomorow on an unfair moving violation.  I had 6 people in
> > my car ('70 442 with bench seat) and only 5 seat belts.  This is in

Does the state of CA have a web page?  I did a search on WA's home page
and found the seat belt law.  It says:

     (2) This section only applies to motor vehicles that meet the
manual seat belt safety standards as set forth in federal motor
vehicle safety standard 208.  This section does not apply to a
vehicle occupant for whom no safety belt is available when all
designated seating positions as required by federal motor vehicle
safety standard 208 are occupied.

Along with another section that says lack of seat belts can't be
considered negligence, and it can't be reported to insurance companies.

------------------------------

From: dgerow@stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:29:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

James & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>
>                               C&M Classic Auto
>
> **** New stuff to list****
> ___________________________________________________
> 69 442 Hood Tongue (mint)  $35.00

What Exactly is a "HOOD TONGUE"?

- --
Daniel R. Gerow
dgerow@stonehill.edu
WSHL-FM 91.3 Stonehill College Radio
- ------------------------------------
http://www2.stonehill.edu/wshl
- ------------------------------------
Homepage: http://www2.stonehill.edu/~dgerow

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:33:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

At 02:29 AM 6/20/97 -0300, you wrote:
>James & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>>
>>                               C&M Classic Auto
>>
>> **** New stuff to list****
>> ___________________________________________________
>> 69 442 Hood Tongue (mint)  $35.00
>
>What Exactly is a "HOOD TONGUE"?
>
>--
>Daniel R. Gerow
>dgerow@stonehill.edu
>WSHL-FM 91.3 Stonehill College Radio
>------------------------------------
>http://www2.stonehill.edu/wshl
>------------------------------------
>Homepage: http://www2.stonehill.edu/~dgerow
>
Dan

        It's the piece that extends the center of the hood down and has the
442 emblems in it. It's either called a tongue or a hood extention. Either or.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:50:12 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!

I'm sure you've all been waiting for me to respond to the Quad4 disbelievers
out there, but I'm on the digest and I haven't gotten ª722 or ª723.  So
appatently I've missed out on quite a discussion here.  Damn AOL has been
losing my incoming mail for the last couple of days.  Could someone please
send me these digests or tell me where to find them?

Just a few corrections concerning the Quad442 and W-41 cars.  I know I'm
getting in late on this so I won't flame anybody publicy.

The W-41 came with a 3.94:1 transaxle ratio. Not a 3:91.  And this was a part
of the W-41 package only as I understand it.  The standard Quad442 did not
get this gear ratio.

Also Motor Trend's test showed a 14.7 @ 95mph for the W-41 Calais.  At the
time that was faster than the 5.0 M*st*ng and the 5.0 C*m*r* listed in their
testing data in the back of the issue.

><< Just to add a small point - several of the Quad442s on the list are a
>little more potent  -  190bhp with a 3.91 gear ratio and Torsen limited
> slip diff.
>  >>
>Yea, the W-41 Quad 442 had the 190 hp engine, the standard Quad 442 had the
>180 Hp engine with said above gear ratios. Cant exlude the SCX either
>
>Actually, I remember reading in an older Car & Driver that the Quad442 ran
>some pretty respectable quarter mile times.  The quarter was ran in 14.5 or
>something and the 0-60 time was like 6.9 or 7.1; around there.  That's
>M*st*ng GT territory (they used to be faster).

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:50:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!

I'm sure you've all been waiting for me to respond to the Quad4 disbelievers
out there, but I'm on the digest and I haven't gotten ª722 or ª723.  So
appatently I've missed out on quite a discussion here.  Damn AOL has been
losing my incoming mail for the last couple of days.  Could someone please
send me these digests or tell me where to find them?

Just a few corrections concerning the Quad442 and W-41 cars.  I know I'm
getting in late on this so I won't flame anybody publicy.

The W-41 came with a 3.94:1 transaxle ratio. Not a 3:91.  And this was a part
of the W-41 package only as I understand it.  The standard Quad442 did not
get this gear ratio.

Also Motor Trend's test showed a 14.7 @ 95mph for the W-41 Calais.  At the
time that was faster than the 5.0 M*st*ng and the 5.0 C*m*r* listed in their
testing data in the back of the issue.

><< Just to add a small point - several of the Quad442s on the list are a
>little more potent  -  190bhp with a 3.91 gear ratio and Torsen limited
> slip diff.
>  >>
>Yea, the W-41 Quad 442 had the 190 hp engine, the standard Quad 442 had the
>180 Hp engine with said above gear ratios. Cant exlude the SCX either
>
>Actually, I remember reading in an older Car & Driver that the Quad442 ran
>some pretty respectable quarter mile times.  The quarter was ran in 14.5 or
>something and the 0-60 time was like 6.9 or 7.1; around there.  That's
>M*st*ng GT territory (they used to be faster).

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:52:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? Naise, Try 541!

I'm sure you've all been waiting for me to respond to the Quad4 disbelievers
out there, but I'm on the digest and I haven't gotten ª722 or ª723.  So
appatently I've missed out on quite a discussion here.  Damn AOL has been
losing my incoming mail for the last couple of days.  Could someone please
send me these digests or tell me where to find them?

Just a few corrections concerning the Quad442 and W-41 cars.  I know I'm
getting in late on this so I won't flame anybody publicy.

The W-41 came with a 3.94:1 transaxle ratio. Not a 3:91.  And this was a part
of the W-41 package only as I understand it.  The standard Quad442 did not
get this gear ratio.

Also Motor Trend's test showed a 14.7 @ 95mph for the W-41 Calais.  At the
time that was faster than the 5.0 M*st*ng and the 5.0 C*m*r* listed in their
testing data in the back of the issue.

><< Just to add a small point - several of the Quad442s on the list are a
>little more potent  -  190bhp with a 3.91 gear ratio and Torsen limited
> slip diff.
>  >>
>Yea, the W-41 Quad 442 had the 190 hp engine, the standard Quad 442 had the
>180 Hp engine with said above gear ratios. Cant exlude the SCX either
>
>Actually, I remember reading in an older Car & Driver that the Quad442 ran
>some pretty respectable quarter mile times.  The quarter was ran in 14.5 or
>something and the 0-60 time was like 6.9 or 7.1; around there.  That's
>M*st*ng GT territory (they used to be faster).

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:58:11 -0300
Subject: Resurrected Names (WAS: F85 vs Cutlass)

> > Had a 70 Charger and it would haul.  Don't you remember the two or three
other Faux "Chargers" Mopar had out?  I wouldn't haqve been caught dead
sitting in one.  They were truly tacky.

You mean those Charger 2.0's from the early 80s?  Ewww :)
I think they used the Duster name on something in the early 90s
too, maybe one of the Eclipse clones...

In this vein, I wouldn't be surprised if Chr*sl*r renames their 2 door Neon.
Maybe put a wing on it and call it the "Superbird" :)

Or better yet, paint it red with the Confederate flag's 'X' stars and
call it the "General Lee" edition. :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'


------------------------------

From: enowacki@titan.com (Erik Nowacki)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:39:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

>My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
>it out (which is
>quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
>about 50 hp.
>
>Anyway, does anyone have any comment on whether this would be a good
>investment
>or if some other cheap things might help.  Your comments are greately
>appreciated.
>
I replaced the points distributor in my previous Vista Cruiser.  Since the
old distributor had 200k+ on it I noticed a big improvement in driveability,
but I don't think you will get an additional 50 hp.  The swap is very
simple.  I got the HEI from any Olds at the local salvage yard, dropped it
in and hooked it up to a switched 12v source.  Drop in some HEI sparkplugs,
set the timing and you are done.  It took me less than 2 hours.  The
previous posts are correct that the original air cleaner will not fit.  My
solution was to go back to the salvage yard and purchase the aircleaner from
the same car that I took the HEI from, it has a dent in the rear to clear
the distributor.

You may not be able to tune it to the same extent you tune a points type
distributor, but OTOH you never have to change points again.  It comes down
to whether you want to tune it for maximum power or use it as a daily driver.

Just my $.02

Erik Nowacki
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: padavano.joe@Orbital.COM
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:19:05 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 68 cutlass question

Tom_Simpson@notes.amdahl.com wrote:
>
> My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
> it out (which is
> quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
> about 50 hp.

Is the 50 hp more correct?  Someone please concur.

Chris Sparks

     Not a chance!  In fact, (and they're off...) HEI will offer virtually
     _no_ improvement in HP over _a properly tuned_ point system.  The
     advantage of HEI is that there is no such thing as a properly tuned
     point system, as the points will start to wear (and thus be out of
     tune) as soon as you start the engine.  As a result, while a point
     system will be equal to HEI when the points are fresh, the system will
     slowly degrade over time, causing a loss of HP.  HEI, on the other
     hand, will remain constant in its timing and voltage output.  The only
     reason auto manufacturers went to electronic ignition systems was to
     satisfy emissions requirements to pass emissions testing after 50,000
     (now 100,000) miles without a tuneup.

     Is the installation of HEI worth the effort?  Absolutely.  Will it
     provide a performance improvement?  Only if your point system was
     constantly out of tune.  Expect a barely noticeable HP improvement and
     a slightly greater gas mileage improvement.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:19:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 68 cutlass question

> The
>     advantage of HEI is that there is no such thing as a properly tuned
>     point system, as the points will start to wear (and thus be out of
>     tune) as soon as you start the engine.  As a result, while a point
>     system will be equal to HEI when the points are fresh, the system will
>     slowly degrade over time, causing a loss of HP.  HEI, on the other
>     hand, will remain constant in its timing and voltage output.

....Till the pickup coil goes kaput while you're sitting at a stoplight and
a nice police officer stops to redirect traffic as he radios the exxon tow
truck to come drag your sorry butt and your station wagon back to the
apartment. :)

Perhaps the only disadvantage to HEI: when it goes bad, the car is dead.
With points the car will start to run really crappy but usually make it home
or to the nearest auto parts store.

Othewise I love my HEI and wouldn't go back.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Blaines" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:03:56 -0300
Subject: '64 Starfire f/s

Found this ad in the local paper today...

1964 Oldsmobile Starfire, a classic.  Clean, original condition, electric
windows, electric leather seats, 2-door coupe, $2500, worth more.
801-656-0754, St. George, UTAH

------------------------------

From: enowacki@titan.com (Erik Nowacki)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:28:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

>I go to court tomorow on an unfair moving violation.  I had 6 people in
>my car ('70 442 with bench seat) and only 5 seat belts.  This is in
>California, so I don't know how different other states laws are.
>Several different laws have been passed regarding this problem, from a
>simple fine, to a fine for the passanger; but now it seems it is up to
>the officer to decide who gets the ticket.  And now it seems it is a
>moving violation and a point on your record.
>I need to know if an Oldsmobile with a bench seat is considered a 6
>passanger car or not.  I need to know if it is legal for me to have a
>passanger in the center/front seat not wearing a seatbealt it no
>seatbelt is provided.  Any information will help greatly.
>Thanks
>Brad
>'70 442
>
Brad,

sorry for the late reply, but I have been swamped at work.  I did a quick
check of the California vehlcle code, and you might want to check out
Section 27314 and 27315(f).  Section 27314 looks like it only requires two
seatbelts up front, and 27315(f) states that all passengers must be belted,
EXCEPT if there was no belt required by law when the car was sold.  Ergo, no
seatbelt was required for the center passenger when the car was sold,
therefore the seatbelt requirement does not apply.  PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK THIS
INFORMATION AS IT IS ONLY INTENDED TO POINT YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
(Legal Disclaimer)


Erik Nowacki
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:47:18 -0300
Subject: Will these parts fit???

Hey all
There's a 80 olds442

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:56:18 -0300
Subject: Wil these parts fit???

sorry about that my mail just delivered itself for no reason.
now. There's a 80 olds 442 for sale. Will the majority of these parts
fit on my 81 Cutlass Supreme I would like the doors rear bumper, whats
the gear ratio in the 442 compared to my CS?? maybe the interior, the
heat regulator thing behind the glove box (i'll never remember what it's
called) anyway please let me know if I should pick this car up they want
$300 I gotta call back after dinner.
THANKS
Tim
81 Cutlass Supreme (under construction)
80 Mustang (Ford sucks ala winter beater)
80 Camaro (1st baby dearly departed)

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:04:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

Erik Sez:

< Some of the CA statutes snipped>

> EXCEPT if there was no belt required by law when the car was sold.  Ergo, no
> seatbelt was required for the center passenger when the car was sold,
> therefore the seatbelt requirement does not apply.

FWIW, the law in MA is similar; i.e., no retrofit of seatbelts is required.
One of my buddies has a '53 Chubby w/o belts; in fact I don't recall seeing
bolt holes in the floor for belt mounts when we lifted the carpet up, though
they might have been there.  NJ is the same, luckily for my step-dad and
his '52 Chubby P/U.

The same thing goes for turn signals.

But all this only stands to reason (like *that* is a highly-prized attribute
in relation to motor vehicle laws)... can you all imagine if the law
stated we had to retro-fit *air bags* in our classics???



Tim (Now I'm Gonna Have Nightmares About Airbags!) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:06:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Power Disc Brakes

In a message dated 97-06-19 23:47:35 EDT, you write:

> i have a 69 cutlass s conv. with manual brakes. Does anyone know of a kit
to
> convert to power assist with front discs?
>  what would it cost  me?
>  mick

In the current issue of MCR I found this company:

Stainless Steel Brakes Corporation
1-800-448-7722
FAX 716-759-8688

They have a kit for your car.

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: SRB442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:20:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

Hi,
     I was thinking out loud on the running lean. I had heard running a car
lean on the strip would burn holes in the pistons which would be more heat
being generated. I could be wrong though. Also on a 65 442 there is not a lot
of area for the air to go through the grill. I will be talking to him soon to
see if he has made any headway. He really wants to drive this a little to
cruise nites and local shows.  Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham


------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:27:14 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Here we go again

Mike Roth wrote:

<<Chill out, Captain Cutlass.  >>

Sticks and stones..... :-)  I've been called worse. Such as "Oooh, what a
beautiful Shiiivelle you have!"

<<The first 442 was an OPTIONED Cutlass under B-09.  Or F-85, buyer's
choice.>>

There you go. Option versus model.  So what?

My first new car was a 65 base F-85 coupe with the option in question plus a
few others like M-21 four speed and 3.91 posi. Cost me all of $2,700
delivered and turned a 13.9 sec quarter mile the first time out with no
headers or nothin' and on 7" cheater recap slicks.  Went pretty good for an
OPTION don't you think?

<< Either way, the first time it was it's own body line was in 1968.  Sure it
was a F-85 body style, but it had it's own special VIN designation.>>

Again, so what?  What does this mean?  Nothing!

Check the FAQ Mike, I am sure you will find that I am correct in stating that
many 68 442's came through with Cutlass body plates.  If you would like the
name, address, etc. of an original owner with all the sales papers, window
sticker, etc. of just such an example, I would be happy to provide it.  He's
a member of the Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the OCA and lives in MD.

Moreover, other 68 owners have posted this fact to this list as well. Some
others were afraid they might be looking at bogus 442s.  They weren't.
  Please remember that Olds first and foremost, like every other auto
manufacturer then or since, was in the business of selling product. Not
complying with what someone 30+/- years later believes is "correct."  Them's
the facts.

All _I_ was saying was that, whether it is a model of it's own or an option,
it doesn't mean squat. You were _implying_ there is a difference or something
better the distinction. In fact, all 442's were markedly different from their
Cutlass brethren in everything from suspension, ride height, engine size or
horsepower, etc. That's the case whether it was an option or a model.

My 67 442 has CS logos on the door panels and it doesn't diminish it's
performance or value to me one bit. 'Course, maybe if I took those derogatory
Cutlass references off I could lighten the car enough to shave another tenth
in the quarter. ;-)  Didn't seem to help the 68-69 models.  They didn't run
nearly as well or fast as the 65-57 models, oops, I mean options.

I guess what riled me just a tad was I sensed another potential attitude that
does our _hobby_ no good at all.  One is the elitist attitude that "I spent
big bucks and my car is more correct than your car ."  An option vs model
discussion is just as bad IMO.  These are the kind of things that break car
clubs up and it is totally unnecessary.

<<Here again, I don't intentionally step on anyone's toes about their Old's.
But before you come out swingin', get your facts straight.  >>

Specifically, which facts were incorrect Mike? If you mean the 68 model vs
option vs body tag issue, I can prove my point. Is there anything else?

Sorry if _I_ touched a nerve at your end. At any one time there are probably
300-400 people visiting this list. Just be prepared, as I have learned, that
someone out there likely knows something you don't, has experienced something
you haven't or at least has a different opinion. In this case, them's the
facts as determined by personal experience and the similar findings of
others.

Let's leave the elitist crap to the C*rvette and G*O clubs.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª000000000007728    ;-)
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385




------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:25:11 -0300
Subject: Re: 1965 Odometer Cable, [was Merry Salvaging.]

>In a message dated 97-06-17 02:13:09 EDT, you write:
>
>>
>>  Karl,
>>  You can remove that hex nut with an open end wrench, it's klugey, but it
>>  works fine. I've done this many times. I think it's a 5/8's open end, if
>>  not try 9/16's. Good luck
>>  cf
>>
>
>So, you managed it w/o taking apart the Upper to lower control arm assembly?
>Wow. I assume you had the tire off. Does it work better with the spring
>somewhat compressed (i.e. jack on frame or control arm?) It just seemed that
>if I changed jack from frame to control arm that I might  have a little more
>room below/behind the hex nut for tools.

I jack up the car, to get the front wheels up, then turn the steering wheel
to it's most extreme right turn position so that the left front wheel is
completely accessible. Then boom you're in there. Happy wrenching.
>
>One thing's for certain, I am definitely going to measure the cable with it
>on the car, order the new one, and do the entire swap in one sitting. I
>figure that if it is a few inches long I can find a longer route for the
>cable to travel.

You can still get a Delco cable from most good autoparts stores. It's the
cable _housing_ that's getting rare. You could take one off a 65-67 88 or
98 and it ought to work fine, but 67 might be different from the other
two years. Haven't tested it for the cable and housing length dimension.
Good luck
cf

------------------------------

From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:31:50 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass question

My question; the mechanic I usually get to work on it when I can't figure
>it out (which is
>quite often), has suggested I add an HEI electronic ignition and improve
>about 50 hp.

This is a great modification, cheap, it simplifies tuning, reduces radio
noise, smooths the idle, and provides more consistent timing on the top
end. No drawbacks except it costs $40 bucks or so in the junkyard and
maybe $200 for a _new_ one.

Did this ages ago to my 98 and have been happier every day because of it.
You won't gain 50 HP because of it though.

It's great not to have to set point dwell.

Three stars. Joe Bob says check it out!

cf

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:13:39 -0300
Subject: Will these parts fit 80-442

Well I didn't buy it. The doors were not the same, as was the rear
bumper. It was in not too good of shape but definatly fixable it had the
350 in it. It was at the Oldsmobile meet in london 2 years ago if anyone
is interested I'll give the number if you email me I don't want to
publish someone else's phone number to the masses. The car is in
Delaware Ontario. It would have been nice to pick a rare piece of
history oh well someone else will have a good weekend.

Tim
81 Cutlass Supreme (under construction)
80 Mustang (Ford Sucks Winter Beater)
80 Camaro (1st baby dearly departed)

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:26:00 -0300
Subject: Back in The Saddle Again...

My wife just happened to pick up a copy of the Thrifty Nickel last Thursday
(last week), and was looking through the auto section, when she noticed the
very first car advertised was a 1969 Olds 4-4-2!  We have seen a few in the
papers in the last year or so, and have kinda-sorta been looking for one,
but not real seriously.  She read the ad out loud to me, "1969 Olds 442,
real tight, all original-never restored, can be a daily driver, runs great,
$4500..."  and I decided to call the number.  The guy answered, and told me
a little about the car including that it had been stored for about five
years, and the colors were dark blue metallic with a light blue interior!!!!
 I began to drool at that point, and asked the guy if we could come out to
see it.  Laura, myself and the kids drove out the next day (Saturday) to Old
Monroe, MO (near Quivre River State park sp.?).  We had some difficulties
finding the place, because it was really tucked way back in the boonies!
 Lot's o' cows to be seen in them there parts!  But when we finally found
the place, the guy pulled the 4-4-2 out of the garage and I had a difficult
time controlling myself, as I walked around checking it out.  It was the
spitting image of my old 4-4-2, but ALL ORIGINAL!  I drove it, and enjoyed
that old feeling again for the first time in nearly ten years.  I knew right
there and then, that it was "THE ONE".  It was tough, but I managed to find
a handful of things wrong with it, and began to point them out.  But my mind
was already made up by then, and I had to struggle to try to negotiate with
him, because I would have been willing to pay $5000.00 for it at that point.
 But, I was lucky because he wasn't much of a salesman, and I could tell he
wanted to sell it.  He apparently raises horses, and was wanting a couple
more.  According to him they tend to be expensive.  I offered $3000.00 and
after about five minutes, I could tell he wouldn't take that, so I bumped it
up to $3500.00.  He wasn't too happy with that either, but I held my ground
and told him to think about it and call me if he was interested.  We left,
and I found that the 4-4-2 was all I could think about.  I talked to my wife
and told her how much I wanted it, and how I was afraid someone would buy it
out from under me.  The guy told me he would give me last shot at it even if
someone offered more, but I had these images in my head of someone walking
up with $4000.00 cash waving it in his face, and me kicking myself in the
ass for the NEXT ten years or more because I didn't offer more to clench the
deal.  She wants the car almost as much as I do, and encouraged me to call
him back.  So, I called the guy back that night and offered him $3750.00.
 He said he'd have to talk to his wife, and would call me in the morning.
 He called back 10 minutes later and said we have a deal!  So, I drove over
there Sunday, and gave him $1000.00 down, and this week I pulled out
$3200.00 out of my Long term savings plan (well worth it :-)  That should
cover the rest, including taxes, and license.   So, I am buying the '69
4-4-2 tonight.  I leaving shortly to give him the remaining balance and to
pick up the car.  I can't wait!  It is nearly identical to another '69 4-4-2
that I sold nearly ten years ago.  I have regretted it every day since.  Not
anymore though,  I'll finally be back in the saddle again :-)

I have been walking on air ever since I clinched the deal.   In fact,
Saturday night I was running around the back yard with a broom "doing the
bull dance...feeling the flow.....feelin' it"  as Kevin Nealon said in
"Happy Gilmore."

Speaking of quotes, Ferris Bueller once said:  "Life moves pretty fast.  If
you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

Here I go!

Catch You Later,

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible (and the "NEW" '69 4-4-2)

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:53:46 -0300
Subject: Re: engine/head id

Hey Guys,
        An engine with "A" heads can be the 400 as well as the 425. Trust
me...I've looked at one for over 32 years!
                                                       Ron Forsee
                                                        65 442-Meister

------------------------------

From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:53:30 -0300
Subject: KEYS

Hey guys, I have some original GM replacement key blanks for sale if anybody
is interested.  195?-1968, just look to see if your keys are A and B  or  C
and D..
My 68 takes the C and D keys. Email me back or send a check to Quality Keys,
Box 82, Gardner KS 66030.   $8.50 a pair or $15 for 4.  Dont have many left.

Thanks   Tim
68 442 Cnvrtbl
76 Delta 88
87 T Type
Olds 215 motor..

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:16:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG

> imagine the '84 VIN Y is the same.  Mine idled rough (in drive and R)
> with the A/C on, so I backed the solenoid out a half-turn.  Now it works

I've noticed that these electric solenoids don't engage very forcefully.
If the plunger is adjusted too far out, the throttle needs to be opened a
bit (a light touch on the accelerator pedal) before the solenoid will lock
in position.

> too.  Did you remember to disconnect the battery to reset the computer
> after adjustment?  I forgot that step last time, and the car ran even
> worse until I remembered.

Good point!  I almost neglected to do this myself, but fortunately, did
read the procedure through to the last step where the '88 service manual
said to "clear ECM trouble code memory".  I believe earlier versions more
correctly said to disconnect the battery in order for the ECM to 'learn'
the new closed-throttle voltage.

Kevin Wong
Toronto, Ontario

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:22:49 -0300
Subject: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

                              C&M Classic Auto

**** New stuff to list****
___________________________________________________
66 442 Fenders (small holes)  $650.00 pr
67 Cutlass/442 Fenders (nice)  $650.00 pr
68 Lower Dash (radio area)  (nice)  $25.00
68 Under Dash Map Light  (nice)  $20.00
69 442 Hood Tongue (mint)  $35.00
70-72 Vista Cruiser Tailgate Switch Bezels  $5.00 ea
70-72 455 Engine Mounts  $40.00 pr
68-72 350 Engine Mounts  $38.00 pr
71-72 Sport Mirrors (excellent cond)  $100.00 pr
70 TH350 Trans (Built for 550+hp, shiftkit, HD parts, w/converter)  $350.00
TH350 Shift Cable Bracket  $15.00
72 10 Bolt 2.73:1 (open rear)  $75.00

New Old Stock (N.O.S.) Parts for 1964-1972 Cutlass/442
_______________________________________________
66-67 425/400 Fuel Pump (N.O.S.)  $40.00
66-72 SSI Center Caps (N.O.S.) $34.50 ea
68-75 SSII/III Center Caps (N.O.S.) $34.50 ea
69 Cutlass RH Grilles (N.O.S.) $70.00 ea
70-72 Cutlass/442 LH Fenders (N.O.S.) $450.00 ea
71-72 Turn Signal Lens (N.O.S.)  $90.00 pr
71-72 LH Sport Mirror-Remote (N.O.S.)  $125.00 ea
71-72 Stone Shields (N.O.S.) $38.00 ea
71-72 Headlight Housings (plastic) (N.O.S.) $90.00 pr
71-72 Cutlass Rear Bumpers (N.O.S.) $380.00 ea
71-75  Cutlass Fender Emblems (N.O.S.)  $19.50 ea
72 Cutlass Supreme & Hurst/Olds Grilles (N.O.S.)  $125.00 pr

Used Parts
_______________________________________________
64 Cutlass/442
RH Headlight Bezel  $15.00
Front Bumper Core  $40.00
LH/RH Taillight Lens  $8.00 ea
F-85 Fender Emblem (nice)  $5.00
V-8 Emblem  $5.00

66 Cutlass/442
66-69 SSI Wheels  $40.00 ea
Headlight Bezels  $40.00 pr
Cutlass Front Grille  $40.00
LH Rear side molding  $10.00
Front Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Window Molding Set  $65.00 set
Exterior A-Pillar Chrome Moldings  $15.00 pr
F-85/Cutlass Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea

67 Cutlass/442
Cutlass Headlight Bezels  $55.00 pr
Supreme/442 Side Moldings  $15.00 ea piece
Rear Window Molding Set  $65.00 set
Front Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
Rear Bumper Cores  $45.00 ea
A Pillar Moldings  $15.00 pr
Deluxe Full Wheel Covers  $20.00 ea

68 Cutlass/442
68 Cutlass/442 Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
68-72 Cutlass S LH Rear Side Glass (clear)  $45.00
RH Headlight Plastics  $75.00 ea
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set
68 Cutlass/442 RH Fender (nice, small ding)  $300.00
68 Cutlass/442 Std Horn Button (black, nice)  $7.00
68 Air Cleaner Stove Pipe (pipe only)  $10.00
68-72 Rear Hood Molding  $20.00 ea
68-72 Cowl mouldings  $25.00ea
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Set (black, mint) $25.00 pr

69 Cutlass/442
442 Grilles (nice)  $180.00 pr
69 442 Rear Bumper (nice)  $130.00
Hood Tongue  $15.00 ea
Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr
Hood Louver Chrome  $35.00 pr
Hood Louver Moldiings  $35.00 pr
Windshield Molding Sets  $65.00 set
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set

70 Cutlass/442
SSII Wheels (set of 5)  $200.00
70 F-85 Horn Button (cheap style wheel, excellent)  $10.00
70 Oldsmobile Options Folder  $5.00
69-70 C/S Front Hood Rocket (nice)  $12.00
70 Cutlass Trunk Rocket (nice)  $10.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 4)  $160.00
S Hood Chrome Vents  $35.00 pr
S Hood Vent Moldings  $35.00 pr
Cutlass Supreme RH Door (rust free)  $110.00
"S" Pillared Coupe Door Panels (good cond)  $40.00 pr
Cutlass Rear Bumper Core  $90.00
Black A/C and Non A/C Dash Pads  $100.00 ea
Blue Auto Shift Console  $125.00 (w/shifter)
70-71  Glove Box Doors  $15.00 ea
70-72 RH Fender (needs patch panel)   $40.00
70 Cutlass 'S' Tail Light Lens   $10.00 ea
70-72 Cutlass S Vinyl Top rear moldings (few pits)  $8.00 pr

71 Cutlass/442
Cutlass Supreme Grilles   $125.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 5)  $200.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 4)  $160.00
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $35.00 pr
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
71 Front Rocket Emblem (nice)  $5.00

72 Cutlass/442
72 Cutlass/442 Owners Manual  $7.00
SSII/III Wheels  (set of 5)  $200.00
SSII/III Wheels (set of 4)  $160.00
72 Cutlass Supreme Side Moldings (excellent)  $110.00 set
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $35.00 pr
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00

Toronado Parts
68 Toronado Front Bumper (good cond) $50.00
68 Toronado Rear Bumper (decent cond)  $40.00
66-67 Toronado Chrome Dash Bezel (Mint)  $40.00
66-68 Toronado Pitman Arm (excellent cond) GM  $45.00
66-? Toronado Front Brake Drum  $15.00
66-69 Toronado Interior Moldings (Ivory)  $5.00 ea
66-69 Toronado LH & RH Rear Side Windows  $30.00 ea
66-68 Toronado Back Glass  $40.00
68-69 Toronado Headlight Vacuum Module  $40.00
68 Toronado Air Cleaner Pie Tin  $5.00
66-68 Toronado Trailer Hitch Assm.  $20.00

We have more parts in stock, and more coming!  The reproduction 70-72
Cutlass/442 Auto Trans Console Indicators $24.00 ea. plus $3.00 shipping.
We have also reproduced the 63 Starfire console shift lens $35.00 plus $3.00
shipping. We have recieved a 67-69 2 spd auto shift lens and will be
reproducing these for the Jetaway Trans. cars. Looking for a decent 64-66
auto trans shift lens for reference to reproduce.

Jim Chermack
OCA ª24275
'70 Cutlass SX W-32
'72 442
'86 Ninety Eight
'94 Cutlass Supreme
'96 C-1500
Virginia  Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:55:15 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Police

I started a new job last week, and today in the parking lot of our other
building what should I spy through the fence but a nice shiny red A-body
car with a nice rear wing, and an OAI hood.  My eyes light up, and as I
get closer I can see the rear bumper and am dissapointed to see Ch*v*ll*
tail lights.  Dang.  Had the owner been around the conversation probably
would have went something like this:

"Hey, you there!  Yeah, you.  Oldsmobile police," as I flip open my
wallet for about a millisecond then close it again, "I'm afraid that
you're not allowed to have that Hurst/Olds rear wing on that piece of
shiivelle, you'll have to remove it at once.  And the OAI-wannabe
aftermarket hood too, come on, hand 'em over. . ."

"I'm going to let you off with a warning this time if you agree to go
visit www.442.com."

Sigh.  Glad it's Friday!  Almost 5:00!

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª727
********************************
