
oldsmobile-digest      Thursday, August 14 1997      Volume 01 : Number 799



72 442 (or W-30) car or shell
Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
Re: Squealing_fans
1970 W-31 for sale
QUESTION:  '72 shop manual 
Re: '69 VIN
Delta 88 Wheels
More Cars in Birmingham
Re: 68 OLDS 455
Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
Re: Key question
70' Frames
NOS 1979 H/O Emblems For Sale (8/14)
Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
Re: O.A.I. letters painted?
Re: 70' Frames
Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
Re: covt. top problems conclusion
Re: 70' Frames
Re: power brake booster ?
Re: O.A.I. letters painted?
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re[2]: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re: covt. top problems conclusion
RE: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
Re: 68 OLDS 455
RE: 70' Frames
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
RE: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
Re: 68 OLDS 455
North/South
1966 Olds Cutlass    FS
Sparkmobile Update
Re: North/South
Re: North/South
Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)
70'frames
Some Questions
Lansing; Where am I ?   et alii
Re: 68 OLDS 455
Re: 70 442 Conv -What to do? 
Re: O.A.I. letters painted?
Re: 72 442 (or W-30) car or shell
messages
70 442 Convt.-Thanks for advice
Re: O.A.I. letters painted?
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:10:11 +0000
From: mackk@netinc.ca
Subject: 72 442 (or W-30) car or shell

I am still looking for a 72 Cutlass Supreme 442 (or W-30) convertible to
restore. I have a mint southern frame here just waiting. If the car is
whole, the drivetrain is not necessary. It must be a 'real 442' or W-30
though, with the Cutlass Supreme body style. Thanx.

Ken    mailto:mackk@netinc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 97 23:17:43 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@orbital.com>
Subject: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

     The recent discussion of the August issue of Popular Mechanics and the 
     dismal performance of the 70 W-30 led me to dig up my copy of a 
     similar comparison test in the November 1985 Popular Mechanics.  
     Entitled "Muscle Cars Then and Now", they compared six classic 
     musclecars with six then-new 1985 "musclecars".  This was actually a 
     much more comprehensive test, with performance measurements for gas 
     mileage, quarter mile, slalom (seven cones spaced 100 ft apart), 
     skidpad (200 ft diameter), and 60-0 braking distance.  Most notably, 
     all twelve cars were shod with Goodyear Eagle GT tires, eliminating 
     the handicap of the original bias-ply tires on the classic cars.
     
     The matchup was as follows:
     
     1970 Buick GSX Stage 1  vs  1985 Buick Regal GN Turbo
     1970 Chevelle SS 454 (LS-6)  vs  1985 Monte Carlo SS (305)
     1970 Hemi Charger R/T  vs  1985 Dodge Shelby Charger (Turbo 2.2 liter) 
     1969 Ford Cobra Talladega (428)  vs  1985 Mustang GT 5.0 4bbl
     1964 GTO (389 tripower)  vs  1985 Trans Am (305)
     
     ...and the popular favorite...
     
     1970 442 W-30 vs 1985 442
     
     (loud cheers from the crowd)
     
     And now for the results:
     
     GAS MILEAGE (MPG)
     
     GSX                12              GN              17 
     Chevelle SS 454    12              Monte Carlo SS  16 
     Charger R/T        10              Shelby Charger  19 
     Talladega          12              Mustang         16 
     GTO                14              Trans Am        15 
     W-30               12              442             17
     
     QUARTER MILE (SEC@MPH)
     
     GSX                14.95 @ 93.55   GN              16.43 @ 83.37 
     Chevelle SS 454    14.22 @ 101.69  Monte Carlo SS  16.24 @ 83.41 
     Charger R/T        14.12 @ 103.44  Shelby Charger  15.90 @ 85.02 
     Talladega          14.79 @ 95.59   Mustang         14.87 @ 92.59 
     GTO                14.84 @ 96.56   Trans Am        16.01 @ 85.83 
     W-30               13.93 @ 99.33   442             18.23 @ 79.51
     
     Note that the W-30's times are amazingly close to those obtained by 
     Hot Rod in their 1970 test of a W-30.  PM noted that 85 442 exhibited 
     a fuel starvation problem that led to the dismal strip times.  
     Presumably this was not representative of those cars.  They also noted 
     that they "were testing on one of those humid, horsepower-sapping days 
     when everything is a little slower than usual."  It's also easier to 
     wring the last few tenths out of a classic musclecar "...without the 
     owner and his family standing next to the track covering their 
     eyes..." 
     
     SLALOM (MPH)
     
     GSX                54.07           GN              58.66 
     Chevelle SS 454    54.76           Monte Carlo SS  59.02 
     Charger R/T        56.50           Shelby Charger  58.15 
     Talladega          55.32           Mustang         57.73 
     GTO                49.89           Trans Am        56.18 
     W-30               52.99           442             56.84
     
     A HEMI CHARGER (the longest wheelbase and longest overall by far) was 
     the fastest classic musclecar in the slalom?!?!
     
     SKIDPAD (Gs CW/CCW)
     
     GSX                .74/.73         GN              .79/.87 
     Chevelle SS 454    .75/.76         Monte Carlo SS  .81/.85 
     Charger R/T        .73/.74         Shelby Charger  .80/.83 
     Talladega          .74/.75         Mustang         .80/.83 
     GTO                .70/.72         Trans Am        .83/.86 
     W-30               .77/.74         442             .76/.76
     
     Another first for the W-30!
     
     BRAKING 60-0 MPH (FT)
     
     GSX                199             GN              143 
     Chevelle SS 454    143             Monte Carlo SS  138 
     Charger R/T        152             Shelby Charger  126 
     Talladega          163             Mustang         146 
     GTO                201             Trans Am        140 
     W-30               177             442             121
     
     Finally, the G-body 442 vindicates itself!
     
     I hope you found this copious use of bandwidth informative.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:32:50 -0400
From: "Terry E Teague" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Squealing_fans

OK guys I have had this problem when my budget would not let me buy a
fan. If you will drill a small hole in the top of the rear fan bering
and put some oil in it and put some sealing putty on the hole it will
make it quite again for a good while. Be really careful drilling and all
will be well.

Terry Teague
68 Delta Custom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:15:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: David1756@aol.com
Subject: 1970 W-31 for sale

Found this in the AOL classifieds - know nothing about the car but thought
the list might be interested...
Subj:  1970 Oldsmoble Cutlass W-31
Date:  97-08-11 23:13:57 EDT
From:  SYCAMORBOB      

Rare Oldsmoble W-31 option in a Cutlass "S" Holiday Coupe 
350 cu. in.  Ram Air with 4 Speed close ratio transmission
390 rear axle ratio.  Excellent paint and interior.  Console and rally pack.
Blue with Black stripes and Black interior.
Manual disc brakes and steering.
Have protecto-plate and build sheet.
$12,000.      For more information call:   AL at (815) 899-3251  Northern
Illinois

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:22:14 -0500
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: QUESTION:  '72 shop manual 

Hi folks,
              I got this through my owner's registry listing at Bryceman's
Olds site.  Can anybody help this guy out?  Please reply directly to him.
Thanks.

Doug N.  


>Return-Path: <psu12063@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
>Delivery-Date: Wed, 13 Aug 97 07:30:19 GMT
>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:29:25 -0800
>From: Kevin Kays <psu12063@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
>To: dnewman@wcbi.com
>Subject: shop manual
>
>i have a 1972 olds 442 w/ a 455 engine and looking for a shop manual.
>can you help me???
>	email: psu12063@odin.cc.pdx.edu
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:21:42 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: '69 VIN

Don't think my eyesight is that poor - typed it off the title as it was in
my hand (and for once, not at 10:30-11:00 pm).  Now its all at work so
can't recheck.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '69 Toronado, '72
Vista Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 03:37:14 -0400
From: "John S.Shelp" <shelpj@noln.com>
Subject: Delta 88 Wheels

I am still waiting for a answer to my wheel question.
John Shelp 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:09:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: STemple909@aol.com
Subject: More Cars in Birmingham

Hi list,

I let you all know about a 64 F-85 two door and 72 Cutlass Supreme each for
$850 a few days ago but I also know a guy that has a 68 442 (400 cid engine /
MT). The guy is a painter and a fireman traded it to the guy for painting his
house. He wants $1,800 for it. If anybody is interested, let me know.

Shawn Temple
72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:22:23 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 68 OLDS 455

Terry E Teague wrote:
> 
> Ok list lets see what ya'll know about 455's. I have one in my car and
> also have another one and I really don't know squat about them. I would
> like to know where and what the numbers on the blocks and heads mean. If
> anyone can help and I am sure by the class of this list that someone can
> I would really appreciate it.   thanks Terry.
> 
> BTW is there anyone in the southern states like NC? It would seem that
> most of you are northern.
> 
> Terry Teague 68 Delta Custom
> dawgs@conninc.com
Terry,

I don't know whether you would call Ky a southern state or not but I
always have.  You also have Bill Culp in Alabama and Mike down in
Florida as well as several others.  Most of my relatives (that I admit
to) live in Ala, Fla and Ky.

Don

Don

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:39:42 -0500
From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Subject: Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

>      QUARTER MILE (SEC@MPH)
> 
>      GSX                14.95 @ 93.55   GN              16.43 @ 83.37
>      Chevelle SS 454    14.22 @ 101.69  Monte Carlo SS  16.24 @ 83.41
>      Charger R/T        14.12 @ 103.44  Shelby Charger  15.90 @ 85.02
>      Talladega          14.79 @ 95.59   Mustang         14.87 @ 92.59
>      GTO                14.84 @ 96.56   Trans Am        16.01 @ 85.83
>      W-30               13.93 @ 99.33   442             18.23 @ 79.51
Thanks for all the specs, those are great.  All of your numbers seem
right on except 1.  Your 70 W-30 qurter mile time seems to be a whole
second faster than any test results I've ever seen.  I'm fairly certain
thats a typo. I know there are "special" cars that seem to run a little
faster than the pack out of the factory but I'm sure you know what kind
of modifications it requires to shave a second off of a quarter time. 
Not only is 13.93 VERY impressive, but the red flags went up for me
when  your specs had the W-30 smoking the GSX, Hemi and the LS6 which
just was not the way it was.  Of the ten quickest Muscle cars from
1968-74 the 2nd was the Hemi, the 3rd was the GSX and the 10th was the
70 W-30.  ( the 8th was the 68  H/O 455/390HP) Obviously the 13.93 @
99mph was another red flag.  I've heard people whispering that the
fastest Olds ever made was the 66 W-30. Certainly the rarest of all but
that doesn't seem to pop up in the numbers either.  As an Olds owner and
someone that HATES chvy's and Slopars I dont care for the results but
thats the way it was.
- -- 

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      1995 Cutlass Supreme SL
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:07:26 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Key question

>>>I have a 1972 Olds Cutlass Supreme Convertible that doesn't have a key for
>>>the ignition.
><snip>
>>While you can pull the wheel, I believe the door and ignition locks share
>>the same key, so you can pull the door cylinder and have one made up at a
>>locksmith shop for about $10-$15 (I had to for my SX; then I had him make
>>*lots* of spares).
>
>I'm confused here: unless the original poster can't lock/unlock his doors
>either, the ignition switch on _this_ car must be using a different key
>for some reason. If this is true, that ignition lock cylinder will have
>to come out anyway... though at that point it can be rekeyed to match
>the doors...

While they might be different on his car, his car sounds like mine: a
sitting project car. In that case, the doors might not need locking.
Somehow, I managed to avoid locking the doors to my SX for the last 13
years, so I was able to have a key made up for the doors/ignition, and
luckily I had left a trunk key on the cowl screen at some point in that
time, so I didn't have to pop anything out. The '68 Toro that I just handed
over to Don Ross for restoration came with no keys whatsoever, but luckily
the doors were unlocked, so I could pop out a door cylinder to get the
square key made up, and it had a remote trunk release, so hooking up a
vacuum pump to the hose coming off the switch in the glovebox allowed me to
"pop" the trunk and pull its cylinder. I've been *very* lucky with keys
lately... :)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:03:47 -0300
From: Darryl Wright <darryl@altair.com>
Subject: 70' Frames

Hello- I have a 1970 cutlass convertible. The front frame rails are 

rusted out right at the swaybar attachment points. I was wondering if

weilding on new peices far-fetched(It is not in a stuctural part of the

frame well past the suspension points)? Full frame replacement could 

cost more than I have. Do convertibles have differant frames than 

hard tops? This by the way is the only rust on the car.

Thanks,

Darryl
70' olds
94' olds

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:25:28 -0300
From: "Thomas G. Stoner" <tgstoner@umich.edu>
Subject: NOS 1979 H/O Emblems For Sale (8/14)

I have the following Oldsmobile related item which I would like to sell:

NOS 1979 Hurst/Olds exterior emblems.  ³Chrome² plated and black & gold
painted 4-1/4 x 2-1/4 plastic, with tape adhesive.  These are the emblem
for the sail panel and decklid on the Œ79 H/O.  They may be identical in
size and shape to the emblems for other years too, but for those
applications would have been red where these are gold.  I purchased
these from Cars and Concepts in 1982 as spares for our car, and
thankfully never had occasion to use them.  I have three.  $25.00 each,
or all three for $60.00 including shipping to any address in North
America.  (8/14/97)

Notify me directly at tgstoner@umich.edu if you would like to purchase
this item, or if you would like additional information about it.  Thank
you.

          ===
+======= | | | =======================+
|        | | |   Tom Stoner           |
|        |/|\|   OCA #3943            |
|        | | |   Ann Arbor, Michigan  |
|         ===    tgstoner@umich.edu   |
+=====================================+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:31:05 -0300
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

padavano.joe wrote:

>      GAS MILEAGE (MPG)
>      W-30               12

this is what my 68 4-4-2 SC gets

>      QUARTER MILE (SEC@MPH)
> 
>      Mustang         14.87 @ 92.59

Based on previous postings, this 1985 car would beat my SC (quoted time
from
list at 15.00 seconds).  I find that hard to believe since when I had my
77
Olds I kept in good stead with this kind of car.  With my 4-4-2, I know
it is
much faster than the 77.

>      W-30               13.93 @ 99.33

When comparing the W-30's times against the others, do these number
imply that
the car had great off-the-line acceleration (resulting in good time),
but pooped
out towards the end (resulting in lower mph)?


Where there figures for 0-60 mph?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:11:25 -0500
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Subject: Re: O.A.I. letters painted?

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:35:54 -0500
From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>

Mike Rothe wrote:
>>
>> > On the top section of the OAI air cleaner assembly, (in front of the
>> > "flapper"), the molded plastic has "OLDSMOBILE" on it.
>> >
>> > Q.  Originally, back in 1970-1972, were these letters painted white
>> > from the factory?
>>
>> Hmmmm.....I've seen a grunch of OAI flapper lids in my time, and only 2
>> that I can remember with painted letters.  One was white, the other the
>> color red of the car it was on.  I think the owners did this.  I have
>> the factory lid with mine and no remnants whatsoever of any paint.
>
>Out of the three factory ram air cars I own, the most original of the
>batch has raised white letters.

Just to confuse the issue, the original OAI I picked up for my car
had the letters painted in RED.  So much for being color coordinated
with the blue engine, in a black car... :-)

I'm pretty sure mine was painted after the fact, as the paint job isnt
up to usual factory standards.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:14:23 -0500
From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Subject: Re: 70' Frames

Darryl Wright wrote:
> 
> Hello- I have a 1970 cutlass convertible. The front frame rails are
> 
> rusted out right at the swaybar attachment points. I was wondering if
> 
> weilding on new peices far-fetched(It is not in a stuctural part of the
> 
> frame well past the suspension points)? Full frame replacement could
> 
> cost more than I have. Do convertibles have differant frames than
> 
> hard tops? This by the way is the only rust on the car.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Darryl
> 70' olds
> 94' olds

Yes, convertible frames are different.  They  are "boxed" meaning they
are built up under the body to support it due to the lack of
roof/posts.  I too have this same problem and it's not a cheap one.  If
you plan on keeping the car I'd replace the frame. luckily for you they
made more of those than 66's.  I'm having a difficult time finding
frames that are rust-free.
- -- 

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      1995 Cutlass Supreme SL
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:30:31 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?

>>Remember this: if
>>you have ever replaced ANYTHING on your car, even with a replacement GM
>>part,then it is no longer original, or can never be again.>>>>>>

I totally disagree with this logic!  Sounds like this guy has a totally 
"original" car!


>While that may be true for George Washington's axe, I don't agree that
>installing NOS parts as replacements makes the car any less original. But
>if you install _different_ NOS parts to (re)produce a different model,
>you're faking (in the best possible way), not restoring.>


Took the words right out of my mouth!  These totally "original" cars are a 
dying breed.  After father time keeps taking it's toll, one day they will 
still be all "original", but not very eye appealing, (faded paint, chrome 
pits, etc.).  Restoration with anything is inevitable.

Like with anything else, there's a correct way and a half-ass way to 
restore.

(just my opinions)

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt. 
See you on woodward!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:19:28 -0500
From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Subject: Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

> >      QUARTER MILE (SEC@MPH)
> >
> >      Mustang         14.87 @ 92.59

I didn't notice these numbers either....I know for a fact this aint so
because I owned an 87.  These cars off the showroom floor ran low 15's.

- -- 

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      1995 Cutlass Supreme SL
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:20:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: hitson@leadbelt.com
Subject: Re: covt. top problems conclusion

>	Don't laugh, But I bought my cylinders and hose from JCWhitney. They
>are not original, but fit and function were great.
>
>			The General
>
Not a bad choice. Whitney sells cylinders & lines for about $300 total.

Re: Tamraz - my experience with them has been good, and their prices on 
these particulat items are about the same as JCW's.

Roger

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:17:28 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 70' Frames

Darryl Wright wrote:
> 
> Hello- I have a 1970 cutlass convertible. The front frame rails are
> rusted out right at the swaybar attachment points. I was wondering if
> weilding on new peices far-fetched(It is not in a stuctural part of >the frame well past the suspension points)?  Do convertibles have >differant frames than hard tops? This by the way is the only rust on >the car.
> 
Oh, boy!  It depends how bad the rust-out is.  If it's completely gone,
then you may be in for some trouble.  Remember, where is one point that
the torsion effects are felt on the bar when you turn a corner?  RIGHT! 
On the bar frame mounts!  This pulling and pushing may cause the
weakened metal around it to give, then compounding your problems.  While
it is true it is past the critical suspension points, it is almost as
critical in the sway bar department.  I suggest going to a frame shop
and let a professional assess the damage.  Rust is cancer to a car, and
it can be present even if the apparent symptoms are not.

As far as the frames being different, yes they are.  Having never owned
a convertible, I believe the biggest (maybe only?) difference was that
they used "closed-boxed" frame rails, instead of open-box ones. In other
words, they welded plates to the inside of the open frame rails
underneath the floor pan areas to add strength.

Hope this helps.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:24:34 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: power brake booster ?

 Why dot go to your local NAPA or other parts dealer & get one?  They will
be like new in all respects including the iridescent cad plating.  Usually,
they include a new master cylinder for about $100 total.  Getting yours
rebuilt will be more than that w/out any refinishing.

Replacement is easy if not time consuming.

1.  remove the master cylinder nuts at the booster if you are not getting a
new MC
2.  gently pull the MC away from the booster a short distance for removal of
the booster so as not to bend the brake lines
3.  remove the pin holding the brake pedal arm to the booster rod from
inside the car
4.  remove the 4 nuts holding the booster to the firewall
5.  pull booster away from firewall & past the MC
6.  I hope replacement is the reverse of removal

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

- -----Original Message-----
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com <mrhell@m1.sprynet.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 2:12 PM
Subject: power brake booster ?



>Well, after taking everyone's suggestions and checking everything I
>could think of, I took the car to our family mechanic,(he's good but
>always real busy).  He confirmed it.  "Bad brake booster, get another
>one", he said.
>
>year one has a booster, unpainted.  So, I have a few more questions I'd
>like help with.
>
>Q. Does anyone know the best, (best regarding an original part and low
>price), place to buy a new brake booster?  I've found year one to
>always be higher priced, but I do want the correct part.
>
>Q. What is the proper color to paint the booster and where can I get
>this paint?  Does this color have a particular name?
>
>Q. I never replaced one of these.  It appears fairly easy, should I
>attempt it myself?  I do have a shop manual.
>
>The car in question is a 1971 4-4-2, 455 w/ac, with front disc and rear
>drum brakes.
>
>As always, thanks for all the help and suggestions!  This network is a
>God send!
>
>RC Hellebuyck
>1971 4-4-2 covt.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:35:24 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Re: O.A.I. letters painted?

On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 mrhell@m1.sprynet.com wrote:
> Here's a question I keep forgetting to ask.
>
> On the top section of the OAI air cleaner assembly, (in front of the
> "flapper"), the molded plastic has "OLDSMOBILE" on it.
>
> Q.  Originally, back in 1970-1972, were these letters painted white
> from the factory?
>
> I always thought guys did this themselves, until I saw an 1970 Olds ad
> featuring the W-25 hood.  The ad pictured a 70' cutlass with the W-25
> hood opened.  I looked and sure enough the molded "OLDSMOBILE"
> lettering in front of the air "flapper" was white!?!
>
> RC Hellebuyck

**************************
I purchased my 1972 W-30 when it was only 9 months old, and the letters on
the O.A.I. aircleaner adapter were not painted on it.  Nor was there any
trace that paint had ever been there.  This may have varied from year to
year, but all of the ones which I've ever seen painted have always appeared
to me to have been done by the owners.  I never painted mine, but did
modify the aircleaner with a little brass "fish tank pump" valve in the
vacuum line, so I could "lock" the flapper open when I was going out
racing, and closed in the coldest parts of the winter when that big burst
of really cold air could sometimes make the engine stall.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:35:15 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

 Chris,

I shouldn't respond to someone  who pokes fun at my spelling, but being a
forgiving  Southern gentleman, I will this one time.

Most of these I have found in Pontiacs.  They are found to a lesser extent
in Oldsmobile & cars.  Chevrolets are much poorer candidates for these.
Cadillac soon had a slotted outlet type that is much different.  Toronado's
& Camaro's had a much different grill for theirs too.

The others are all the same.  If you get one, don't forget the 2 speed
switch for your model & the 2-wires (one white & one purple).  They are
often $20-25 parts in flea markets.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
>
>> Prior to the offering of the grid type defrosters - ask Andy Green about
>> them - GM offered the glower type defrosters in nearly every car starting
>
>Well what color does is glow?!?!?
>
>> around 1960.  You should notice an opening in the metal of your rear deck
to
>> receive this accessory.  Installation is simple except for some dashes
>> requiring disassembly to install the switches.
>
>These items must be hard to find.  I have tried junkyards to no avail.
>
>Chris Sparks
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 09:34:04 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

Dan Hamlett wrote:

>      W-30               13.93 @ 99.33   442             18.23 @ 79.51 
Thanks for all the specs, those are great.  All of your numbers seem 
right on except 1.  Your 70 W-30 qurter mile time seems to be a whole 
second faster than any test results I've ever seen.  I'm fairly certain 
thats a typo.

     Nope, sorry, but even the text of the article referenced that the 
     W-30 was the only car in the 13s.  As I noted, 13.9-14.0 was 
     typical for period tests of W-30s in 1970.  In my original post, I 
     noted the Hot Rod Magazine test from 1970 where they ran a brand 
     new W-30 and W-31 (both on bias-ply tires).  The W-30 ran 13.9 with 
     only the flapper removed from the O.A.I. breather.  The W-31 ran 
     something like 14.62.  I'll look up the exact numbers tonight.

 I know there are "special" cars that seem to run a little faster than 
the pack out of the factory but I'm sure you know what kind of 
modifications it requires to shave a second off of a quarter time.

     The classic musclecars in this test were all privately owned and 
     apparently stock.  They were all placed on similar Goodyear Eagle 
     GT tires for commonality and all were driven by the PM staff.  I 
     certainly cannot vouch for the originality of these cars, but there 
     are no obvious modifications, like headers.  Again, 13.9 is 
     consistent with the best magazine tests of the time.  As another 
     reference point, Car Craft got a 69 H/O to go 13.9-ish at just 
     about 100 mph.

 Not only is 13.93 VERY impressive, but the red flags went up for me 
when  your specs had the W-30 smoking the GSX, Hemi and the LS6 which 
just was not the way it was.

     I certainly don't disagree that the other musclecars should be 
     faster.  I would have expected the Hemi to turn mid to low 13s, not 
     a 14.12 quarter mile.  The 103 mph of the Hemi and the 101 of the 
     LS-6 (vs the 99 of the W-30) indicate that there was probably an ET 
     reduction to be had in those two cars.  Keep in mind that there was 
     no allowance for, nor indication of, any variations in gearing, 
     wear and tear, etc.  For example, the W-30 might have had a 4.33 
     rear end vs. 3.5-ish gearing for the other cars.  This was not 
     noted in the article, so we can only speculate.  In addition, no 
     mention was made of wear and tear items which would have effected 
     the times.  Worn shifter bushings, for example, would have made it 
     difficult to rapidly shift the cars for the best times.  Finally, 
     driving style has a huge effect on times, and as PM noted, these 
     were privately owned cars with the owners watching the racing.  A 
     missed shift and blown motor are incentive enough not to power 
     shift.  Finally, this was a very limited number of runs on a hot 
     and humid day.  Obviously the temperature will effect the times, as 
     will statistical variability.  Maybe the W-30 was run earlier, 
     during the cooler part of the day.  Maybe the other cars were 
     jetted in such a way as to be more sensitive to the air density.  
     This was by no means a statistically valid sample size.  Of course, 
     the often-cited period tests weren't statistically valid either.

  Of the ten quickest Muscle cars from 1968-74 the 2nd was the Hemi, the 
3rd was the GSX and the 10th was the 70 W-30.  ( the 8th was the 68  H/O 
455/390HP) Obviously the 13.93 @ 99mph was another red flag.

     I believe you are referring to published tests of the time period.  
     As you have stated yourself, "ringer" cars were often provided to 
     magazines for such testing.  Again, these times were obtained with 
     cars of unknown state (some press cars get the crap beaten out of 
     them on the magazine circuit) and unknown equipment (I've often 
     wondered why an automaker would provide a test car and not install 
     an optimized gear ratio).  They were also usually run on the 
     factory skinny bias-ply tires, which clearly limited traction and 
     thus times.

  I've heard people whispering that the fastest Olds ever made was the 
66 W-30. Certainly the rarest of all but that doesn't seem to pop up in 
the numbers either.

     The 66 W-30 _owned_ C/Stock drag racing that year.  Low 12s with 
     headers and slicks were common.

  As an Olds owner and someone that HATES chvy's and Slopars I dont care 
for the results but thats the way it was.
- -- 

     I agree that there are faster cars, and I've even come to the defense 
     of the big block Ch*vy in the past...but as I've always said, if we 
     wanted to take the easy way out, we'd all be driving C*m*ros.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:49:39 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?

mrhell@m1.sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> >>Remember this: if
> >>you have ever replaced ANYTHING on your car, even with a replacement GM
> >>part,then it is no longer original, or can never be again.>>>>>>
> 
> I totally disagree with this logic!  Sounds like this guy has a totally
> "original" car!
> 
RC, you are taking it out of context.  You don't have to agree with the
logic, but you can't evade the facts.  I should have clarified this. 
From the absolute meaning of the term "original", anything on the car
that didn't come from the factory that is replaced, and I mean anything,
then the car is no longer 100% original. Period. If you re-paint your
car the "original color", then you can't call it "original paint". 
Simple enough?  If you put something back to original spec's, however,
then you are "restoring".  You can, however, call it "restored to
original."

What I meant in that statement was that if the owner say, put an Olds
W-25 package on a car that didn't come with it from the factory, then it
doesn't match the build sheet anymore, and isn't original.  Not saying
that it wouldn't LOOK original, and better maybe, just that it didn't
come that way.  Or even more extreme, if someone put a complete W-30 car
together from a 70 442 made in Lansing.  Still isn't original.  If he
wants a 70 Pace Car, he should go find one, instead of faking one.  Of
course, that's my opinion, but it's up to him.

No bloodshed here, OK?
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:09:14 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

Bill,

> I shouldn't respond to someone  who pokes fun at my spelling, but being a
> forgiving  Southern gentleman, I will this one time.

I am sorry :-( and I hope I did not offend you.  I was in a playful mood
yesterday (since I was bored out of my mind at work) and checking for
mispelled words seemed to be amuzing.  I guess being a software engineer
(Ada programming language mainly) has some drawbacks.

> Most of these I have found in Pontiacs.  They are found to a lesser extent
> in Oldsmobile & cars.  Chevrolets are much poorer candidates for these.

Will Pontiacs ones work in an Olds?

> Cadillac soon had a slotted outlet type that is much different.  Toronado's
> & Camaro's had a much different grill for theirs too.
> 
> The others are all the same.  If you get one, don't forget the 2 speed
> switch for your model & the 2-wires (one white & one purple).  They are
> often $20-25 parts in flea markets.

Gosh.  Where would this switch go?  I wouldn't have to drill now, would
I?

Thanks for the info,

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:06:51 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: covt. top problems conclusion

 I've dealt w/Tamraz's & I'm pleased w/the interior & other parts for my '70
GS Buick.  I expect to order an interior for my '68 442 convertible from
them.  My orders came promptly, the quality was as described, & the prices
were much better than Year One.

As an aside, Year One must be very good as we are all comparing companies to
them.  I would deal w/almost anyone who can deliver a good product at a good
price.  Most of these companies don't manufacture anything anyway.  They are
mail order houses who purchase their stock from outside.  Tamraz will tell
you where they purchase their pieces & you can compare.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>At 05:02 AM 8/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>You will probably need to replace lines and cylinders. The best prices I
>>>have seen for them are from Tamraz.>
>>
>>where is this Tamraz place?  Got the phone number?
>>
>>RC Hellebuyck
>>1971 4-4-2 covt.
>>
>>
>
>
>  They are in Napperville, IL.  Be careful though, I've heard more bad than
>good from people on this list who have dealt with them.  Good Luck.
>
>
>  Paul Brillhart
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:16:38 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: 70 442 Conv - What to do?

> >>Remember this: if
> >>you have ever replaced ANYTHING on your car, even with a replacement
> GM
> >>part,then it is no longer original, or can never be again.>>>>>>
> 
Not sure if I understand this logic or even agree with it. Then by pure
process of elimination then all cars are no longer original. By now I'm
sure that all cars have at least had their spark plugs changed and/or
brake pads. This is the extreme case however, I have proven my point and
won't comment any further on this sense of logic.

As for restoring the car to it's original state or creating a replica.
It's already been stated, and I think you get the idea. But since I'm
typing I'd might as well. The car is yours, no doubt about that. Then
basically do what you want. However be honest with people and yourself.
Do not misrepresent the car if a replica is sought after. 

Just one last note. When we ask questions like this type I'm not sure we
are using this list properly. In my opinion, this list should be used to
share and gather information about these automobiles we mutually enjoy.
For example, how do you repair/change this, how does that go, what
productions numbers are for this and the like. I don't believe for one
moment that we should part take in making decisions about what creation
or not one should be making. That decision purely subjective should be
entirely up to the owner. Conversely, I don't think we should criticize
other peoples property either. 

> Fernando Proietto
> Systems Analyst - Informatics
> 
> Environment Canada
> Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
> 4905 Dufferin St. 
> Downsview, Ontario
> M3H 5T4
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:15:16 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: 68 OLDS 455

 Terry,

The elite are from the South.  There are some quite a few others such as Tim
Churchill from the North though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  The Olds FAQ can help in engie identification.  Expect those smart
allec Yankees to pipe up w/the facts though.


>Ok list lets see what ya'll know about 455's. I have one in my car and
>also have another one and I really don't know squat about them. I would
>like to know where and what the numbers on the blocks and heads mean. If
>anyone can help and I am sure by the class of this list that someone can
>I would really appreciate it.   thanks Terry.
>
>BTW is there anyone in the southern states like NC? It would seem that
>most of you are northern.
>
>
>
>
>Terry Teague 68 Delta Custom
>dawgs@conninc.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:24:22 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: 70' Frames

Sounds like bad news. The frame on a convrt and hardtop are indeed
different. The convrt has a boxed frame and the hardtop used an open C
channel frame. The differences are very apparent. As for the front
suspension portion, I think your in luck. Although the frames are
different along the sides of the car they are identical from the front
door post to the front of the car and from the rear door post to the
rear of the car. So what you need is someone who professionally welds
and knows what to do. You can use a potion from the front frame rail
from any year, 70-72 and weld it in place. A good welder can make the
join seamless and no one can ever tell. 

Fernando Proietto
Systems Analyst - Informatics

Environment Canada
Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
4905 Dufferin St. 
Downsview, Ontario
M3H 5T4

> ----------
> From: 	Darryl Wright[SMTP:darryl@altair.com]
> Sent: 	Thursday, August 14, 1997 8:03 AM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	70' Frames
> 
> Hello- I have a 1970 cutlass convertible. The front frame rails are 
> 
> rusted out right at the swaybar attachment points. I was wondering if
> 
> weilding on new peices far-fetched(It is not in a stuctural part of
> the
> 
> frame well past the suspension points)? Full frame replacement could 
> 
> cost more than I have. Do convertibles have differant frames than 
> 
> hard tops? This by the way is the only rust on the car.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Darryl
> 70' olds
> 94' olds
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:38:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote: 
> > The others are all the same.  If you get one, don't forget the 2 speed 
> > switch for your model & the 2-wires (one white & one purple). They are 
> > often $20-25 parts in flea markets. 
> Gosh.  Where would this switch go?  I wouldn't have to drill now, woul I? 

Afraid so. Not only that, but the original switch goes in a real tough
place: the ledge overhanding the radio where the accessory map light
also goes.  If you can find a way to install this without disassembling
the dash, let me know. It's what is currently preventing me from
installing mine... 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:45:10 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?

 Fernando,

I believe that you will note that the criticism so far has been in the true
spirit of criticism - honest evaluation of a circumstance without ill will.
I have not presented my view on this modification/restoration/upgrading
controversy as it is so personal.  I have been interested in the views of
others & very pleased at the civility of the replies.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S. Have fun w/your convertible!






Just one last note. When we ask questions like this type I'm not sure we
are using this list properly. In my opinion, this list should be used to
share and gather information about these automobiles we mutually enjoy.
For example, how do you repair/change this, how does that go, what
productions numbers are for this and the like. I don't believe for one
moment that we should part take in making decisions about what creation
or not one should be making. That decision purely subjective should be
entirely up to the owner. Conversely, I don't think we should criticize
other peoples property either.

> Fernando Proietto
> Systems Analyst - Informatics
>
> Environment Canada
> Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
> 4905 Dufferin St.
> Downsview, Ontario
> M3H 5T4
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:31:57 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: 70 442 Conv - What to do?

Bill,
	no question about that. This is a given when you subscribe to
the list. In fact it should be a given to anyone participating in any
such (public) forum. I too was hesitant in giving my views, but I have
been somewhat docile in the past and tend to respond selectively. This
one post seems to have touched a nerve, since subjects relating to this
have surfaced in the past about originality. I seemed compelled to
respond to this one only because, one being quite subjective and two,
mostly because of what was written by another respondent about extreme
originality, but he has already redeemed himself. 

P.S.S. I don't have a convertible! Does this mean I can't have fun...?

Fernando Proietto
Systems Analyst - Informatics

Environment Canada
Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
4905 Dufferin St. 
Downsview, Ontario
M3H 5T4

> ----------
> From: 	Lloyd W. Culp[SMTP:bculp@HiWAAY.net]
> Sent: 	Thursday, August 14, 1997 5:45 AM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: 70 442 Conv - What to do?
> 
>  Fernando,
> 
> I believe that you will note that the criticism so far has been in the
> true
> spirit of criticism - honest evaluation of a circumstance without ill
> will.
> I have not presented my view on this
> modification/restoration/upgrading
> controversy as it is so personal.  I have been interested in the views
> of
> others & very pleased at the civility of the replies.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
> 
> P.S. Have fun w/your convertible!
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:32:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: 68 OLDS 455

On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Terry E Teague wrote:

> Ok list lets see what ya'll know about 455's. I have one in my car and
> also have another one and I really don't know squat about them. I would
> like to know where and what the numbers on the blocks and heads mean. If
> anyone can help and I am sure by the class of this list that someone can
> I would really appreciate it.   thanks Terry.
> 
> BTW is there anyone in the southern states like NC? It would seem that
> most of you are northern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terry Teague 68 Delta Custom
> dawgs@conninc.com
> 
All the block casting numbers can be found in the faq at www.442.com as 
well as the member list by states


Al Varhus
Columbus, Ohio 
http://www.infinet.com/~avar
 
  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: North/South

- ---"Lloyd W. Culp"  wrote:
>
>  Terry,
> 
> The elite are from the South.  There are some quite a few others
such as Tim
> Churchill from the North though.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
> 
> PS.  The Olds FAQ can help in engie identification.  Expect those
smart
> allec Yankees to pipe up w/the facts though.
> 

*********************
I guess you consider Maryland a northern state!

===
John Pajak                Smart Allec Yankee
Lexington Park, Maryland

JSPajak@rocketmail.com




 

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:43:43 -0700
From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@quix.net>
Subject: 1966 Olds Cutlass    FS

Quick sale to anybody on the list.    rust free, buckets, console, auto,
350 early 350 motor, runs great. Original paint (gold) original interior
(black) no major damage or bodywork done on car. More info email to        
  maldana@quix.net   or 760-357-0713 if no response on my ens, due to
provider problems with email.  thanks  Mike Aldana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:57:51 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Sparkmobile Update

Gang,

After a week of exhausting efforts, I FINALLY solved the problem!!!!

The final fix was a combination of two situations.

Yes, there was crossfire and after installing the new Packard Bell/Delco plug wires that
condition went away. Oddly enough, another situation was masking/cloaking the first. The
K-19 A.I.R system was the culprit. When replacing all the vacuum lines I used standard
5/8" heater hose for the connections. (WRONG!!!!) Well, after the car got warm, the
(now soft) tubing collapsed under vaccum and the supply of vacuum to the A.I.R regulating
valve was reduced allowing for another source of vacuum, on the other side of the
regulating valve, to override an otherise stronger/larger (double ported) source of
vacuum.

This condition caused the valve to flutter and either shunt/strangle the air/vacuum
supply to areas where it should/shouldn't have been, under that load/rpm. This was 
causing the "blubber" part of the condition as it got warm under moderate load. There is 
a particular point when total engine vacuum drops to a "critical" value upon 
acceleration realtive to the A.I.R. At this point, the A.I.R regulating valve was 
fighting itself for vacuum causing all sorts of wierd stuff! (not to mention getting 
Sparky whacked out!)

This is why I had such a hard time determining whether it was spark or fuel! It acted
like both because the symptoms were so close.

AARRGGHH! CASE CLOSED! END OF STORY!! PERIOD!

Sparky (getting on with is life and allowing others to do the same!)   (:

PS....Thanks again for all the help boyz and girlz! Much appreciated!!!!!!!!!

- -- 
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:08:53 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: North/South

Lloyd W. Culp"  wrote:

>  Terry,
 
> The elite are from the South.  There are some quite a few others
> such as Tim Churchill from the North though.
 
> PS.  The Olds FAQ can help in engie identification.  Expect those
> smart allec Yankees to pipe up w/the facts though.
 
John Pajak quips:
> 
> *********************
> I guess you consider Maryland a northern state!


Ah yes, it's this "Us" and "Them" attitude that makes the ol' USA great.

NOT.



Tim (When Asked, Says He's American.  Not Yankee, Not Dixie, Not...) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:20:35 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: North/South

 John,

No, I don't.  Maryland was about to vote secession & join the Confederacy,
but Mr. Lincoln had the legislature arrested to prevent it.  Many
Marylanders joined the Confederate defense forces.   Lee was going to
Maryland to get supplies & recruits when the unfortunate events at
Gettysburg occurred.

Actually Tim is right (did I say that?).  We are all very fortunate to be
Americans.  Oldsmobiles would be foreign cars here if the South had won.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama



>>
>
>*********************
>I guess you consider Maryland a northern state!
>
>===
>John Pajak                Smart Allec Yankee
>Lexington Park, Maryland
>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:38:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pop Mech Musclecar Tests (long)

In a message dated 97-08-14 06:04:17 EDT, you write:

<< >      QUARTER MILE (SEC@MPH)
 > 
 >      GSX                14.95 @ 93.55   GN              16.43 @ 83.37
 >      Chevelle SS 454    14.22 @ 101.69  Monte Carlo SS  16.24 @ 83.41
 >      Charger R/T        14.12 @ 103.44  Shelby Charger  15.90 @ 85.02
 >      Talladega          14.79 @ 95.59   Mustang         14.87 @ 92.59
 >      GTO                14.84 @ 96.56   Trans Am        16.01 @ 85.83
 >      W-30               13.93 @ 99.33   442             18.23 @ 79.51


 Thanks for all the specs, those are great.  All of your numbers seem
 right on except 1. >>

Where are these statistics from? What issue of Popular Mechanics?
I'd like to get a copy and read it...Seems there are several stats that
are off....TIM.....and thanks..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:53:20 -0400
From: Darryl Wright <darryl@altair.com>
Subject: 70'frames

Hey- Thanks for the help. I know were a 70' cutlass is in a junk yard

so I will go with welding the front "forks" on the rest of the frame.

I am a good welder and have the layout tools to line up the new peices

in the correct "Z" height. Thanks for the responses.

Darryl
70'olds
94'olds

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: RegalBG@aol.com
Subject: Some Questions

I am restoring a 1966 Dynamic 88 convertable.  I brought the car without and
engine or transmission.  Later I found a 1967 Toronado with the 425 inch
motor.  I have since pulled the engine from the Toro and it now sits on the
engine stand.  I have a TH400 trans for it,  but before I put the two
together,  can I use the Toronado flywheel with the TH400 transmission?  I
have the starter for the Dynamic and for the Toro,  are they different
besides the Toro starter being on the right side and the Dynamic on the left?
 Also,  I need a different fuel pump.  The Toronado pump has three fuel lines
(it had air conditioning) and my Dynamic dosen't have a return line (no air)
 What type of fuel pump do I get?  Toronado without air or Dynamic without
air?  Will the Toronado pump without air still have a return line?  I hope
you help me get this ride on the road once again.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:20:09 -0700
From: "John P. Stachler" <"jpstax@sprintmail.com"@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Subject: Lansing; Where am I ?   et alii

Just a brief note to y'all from the Karl-monster.

I will be taking Chris Ruper's place, and attending the centeniall. Dave
Brown and I will arrive Tuesday evening at a Best Western Midway (?)
hotel [Karl should have remembered to bring his notes on the hotel's
location]. If I named the wrong hotel, the right one should be stated in
the thread from back when; "Lansing: Where are you?" under Dave Brown
and Chris Ruper.

At any rate, look us up if you can, we will be at the parking lot at
4:00 pm on Thursday (that is where the meet is, right?). I am planning
to bring Soylent with me but travel plans not yet finalized. Attendees
from the IVOC group MAY bring cars including a 1968 (?) Cutlass RamRod
350, and a 1965 4 4 2 with 7A cylinder heads (I know, that is why I
mention it).

Again, please do not reply to this mail address, this is just for your
edification.

BTW Would someone please forward this Enote to Doug Kichener? I do not
have his address on hand, I believe it is DK0009@somewhere.

Thanks. See you all there.

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88   (Class Winner????? at IVOC show? 
        I guess everyone gets a plaque)
Chicago, IL
Member; OCA and Illinois Valley Oldsmobile Chapter


Brevity is the soul of wit.

Maybe that is why people laugh when they see me in my underwear
(briefs).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:23:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 OLDS 455

w30442cs@aol.com    in oklahoma, is that far enough south?   steven. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:35:40 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: 70 442 Conv -What to do? 

<<If he wants a 70 Pace Car, he should go find one, instead of faking one.  
Of course, that's my opinion, but it's up to him.>  >No bloodshed here, 
OK?>>>


Now this I totally agree with!  :) 

Well, I didn't mean to "knock" anyone's opinion. (after re-reading the 
response mail I sent, I guess I can see how it may have be taken wrong)   

{{RC extends a friendly hand shake gesture towards Mike}}   :)

"opinions"...everyone has one.  I was just voicing mine as I always do good 
or bad, right or wrong.

I guess clone cars make my blood boil so much because of the experience I've 
had with them.  In my area, their are about four of them.  Most of those 
owners know and admit their cars are clones, but some don't!  Now I really 
don't care, it's just the transparent dishonesty that makes me hot.  Why do 
they feel the need to lie?

My car has a W-25 hood that was NOT on the car originally.  (Thank God it 
has it now!)  I never hesitate answering any questions about my car.  I 
enjoy it for what it is and have no insecure "hang-ups" about what's 
incorrect on it.  Or, that so & so's car is better than mine.  I love my car 
and feel very lucky and proud to own it.  

Didn't mean to write a book but.. once this cocky, older "Olds expert" 
walked up and informed me that my car wasn't an original 4-4-2 because I 
have the "O-l-d-s-m-o-b-i-l-e" lettering,(which shouldn't be there), plus 
the 4-4-2#s across the trunk lid.  Staying calm I answered, "so your judging 
my entire car based on the trunk lid?"

Too make a long story short, (too late!), when we looked at his 71 "4-4-2" 
covt., it was a restoration mess, gloss black paint, wrong interior 
material, missing parts, etc. and I didn't see 4467 in the vin #!

Now who really cares?  Not me!  It's his car, (fortunately).  Again it's 
just the ignorant, insecure dishonesty some guys have.

Bottom line for me is I enjoy all Oldsmobiles 1948-1980s and try not to let 
any of those "goof-balls" take away from my fun!     

Enough said!  I've said too much already!   :)

P.S.  To any owners of clone cars, please don't take offense!  I'm not 
saying your cars are junk cause their certainly not!  As the one guy put it, 
do whatever will make you happy, it's your car.  Just be honest to yourself 
and others!  (great advice I think)

Now let's stop the feuding and get back to having fun!

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.
See you on woodward and in Lansing (One more week!) 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:47:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: O.A.I. letters painted?

mike just a note here, my rallye 350 has same grills as the ads.  caught my
eye first time i compared them to the one`s in my w-31.   encase anyone is
interested?  steven.     w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:01:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 72 442 (or W-30) car or shell

1972 442 conv.,restored, for sale 9000$,  belongs to a friend. if interested
email me and i will pass it on.  steven.  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:05:14 -0400
From: Paul Hoppel <p.hoppel@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: messages

Please do not send me any more e-mail        Thank you

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:12:31 -0500
From: Chris Hollingsworth <hollings@midcoast.com>
Subject: 70 442 Convt.-Thanks for advice

Thanks for the advice and quick responses.  I think I have decided to go
original for now, and see how I do at the shows.  I think I would have a
hard time telling people it was a fake, so the best thing to do is not
fake it!  

>Where did you find a deal like that??  Looking in my local Trader, 
>the cheapest Cutlass convertibles are around $5,000, and that's not 
>even a 442.

Beleive it or not, my brother were out looking at cars one day in a
local salvage yard(Maine) and saw a few rusted out 442's and started
talking to the owner.  He decides to show us his garage which had no
less than 7 442' in it. 3 were modified for dragging, 2 were original
stock and the last 2 (one of them the 70 conv.) were bought to bring one
of his stock cars back to original. BTW, except for the 2 cars he drags,
he said the other cars have been sitting in his garage since 1989 (He
just doesn't have the time to work on them).  However, after he thought
about it, he decided he liked headers better and wasn't going to change
anything.  He said he was going to sell the conv. soon.  My brother
asked him how much?  Response:  "Oh, i'd have to get $900.  My brother
almost fainted while I raced back to our car and grabbed my checkbook. 
Good story for the grandkids, huh?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:19:42 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: O.A.I. letters painted?

W30442CS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> mike just a note here, my rallye 350 has same grills as the ads.  caught my
> eye first time i compared them to the one`s in my w-31.

Oh, cool.  Like I said, I wasn't POSITIVE about that one.  Come to think
of it now I remember  But I KNOW about the   Thanks for the
clarification.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:39:47 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

 Chris,

Seeing as how we let the North apparantly win the War of Northern Agression,
you know that Southerner's can take a little criticism & not hold a grudge
for longer than 200 years.  It is just one more lovable, wonderful
characteristic of Southern gentlemen.




Bill,

> I shouldn't respond to someone  who pokes fun at my spelling, but being a
> forgiving  Southern gentleman, I will this one time.

I am sorry :-( and I hope I did not offend you.  I was in a playful mood
yesterday (since I was bored out of my mind at work) and checking for
mispelled words seemed to be amuzing.  I guess being a software engineer
(Ada programming language mainly) has some drawbacks.

> Most of these I have found in Pontiacs.  They are found to a lesser extent
> in Oldsmobile & cars.  Chevrolets are much poorer candidates for these.

Will Pontiacs ones work in an Olds?

They surely will.  Ask Andy Green about his.

>
> The others are all the same.  If you get one, don't forget the 2 speed
> switch for your model & the 2-wires (one white & one purple).  They are
> often $20-25 parts in flea markets.

Gosh.  Where would this switch go?  I wouldn't have to drill now, would
I?

The switch goes above the radio next to the courtesy light, power antenna,
rear speaker, convertible top, etc ones.  They are matches too.  I believe
that the dash is usually cut, but that is a simple matter because of the
"blanks" in these locations.

Thanks for the info,

Chris Sparks

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #799
********************************

