To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #766


oldsmobile-digest        Monday, July 21 1997        Volume 01 : Number 766



403 => 7a heads
350 ª8=>ª5-6-7 heads
403 Oldsmobile 77-78
On the road again...
Re: Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)
Re: Oil pressure
Re: advice needed
Re: 62 Starfire /Car Cruise/ Third Place Winner
Re: seat back paint?
Re: seat back paint?
Emblems and Scripts
Re: parts needed;questions
Re: Smog Adventure
Emblems and Scripts
Re: W31 damper ID?
[none]
'87 front end exchange???
Inspection Adventures,  Sightings, and NPR
Re: Emblems and Scripts
Re: Convertible Speakers
Pick-a-parts in LA
67 Cutlass FS
71 442 FS
Buy This Please !!
Re: '71 park lite available
Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª765
More SS Centercap Questions
Re: On the road again...
Re: On the road again...
Re: 403 Oldsmobile 77-78
Re: 403 => 7a heads
Re: Emblems and Scripts
Re: seat back paint?
Bill SB-24 - FAILED passage late yesterday
Re: Emblems and Scripts
Re: '87 front end exchange???
Re: Emblems and Scripts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:36:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 403 => 7a heads

Someone inquired as to the compression boost obtained by utilizing ª5-6-7-7a
heads on a 403. My calculations show:

Head cut    CR
0           9.50
0.014"      9.75
0.039"      10.25

This is based on:
64cc heads
0.020" deck clearance => 4.9cc deck clearance volume
4.375" dia. gasket hole
0.040" thick gasket => 9.9cc gasket volume
2.750 dia. x 0.188" piston dish, or 18.3cc
stock bore & stroke

Quite a jump from the 8.1 or so that the stock setup calculates out to.

So, a friend recently sold off a set of 7a's, all set up for 403 use, big
valves, fresh valve job, etc. Seems like a setup like that oughta be worth
$300, don't ya think? Shoot, just a valve job & cut for larger valves would run
over $150...
  Compared to other ways of altering the 403's CRatio [pistons] that's cheap!
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:50:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 350 ª8=>ª5-6-7 heads

Just for grins, thought I'd see what the smogger 350 motor with ª8 heads would
get for CRatio if one were to install earlier 64cc ª5-6-7-7a heads...

Answer: about 8.75:1 with no head cut, 0.040" gasket [common].
You'd have to cut about 0.078" [too much] to get to 10.25:1 which is really too
much except for maybe a race motor anyhow. Instead of cutting that much, one
might better use earlier smaller chamber heads.

Sounds like a nice easy way to boost the common smogger 350's output... and
pass smog! I happened to have headless versions of both the '72 350 and the '74
350 in the truck today, measured the pistons' dishes:

'72 350 7a heads, ~2.90" dia. x ~0.220-0.240-0.250" deep dish [depth varies]
'74 350 ª8 heads, ~2.90" dia. x ~0.145" deep dish.

Which works out to about 25cc for the '72 motor with the smaller chamber heads,
and about 16cc for the smog motor with the big-chamber heads.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:20:41 +1200
From: harry <Km-Nuku@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: 403 Oldsmobile 77-78

Hi this is Dave Smith here in New Zealand.
I am currently rebuilding a 403 Olds engine, the only problem is, there
is very little specific information on the 403 here in N.Z.
Any information or exploded views of the 403 would be a great help.
Thanx.
Dave.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 01:28:41 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: On the road again...

     Well, you may have noticed my limited participation on the list for
     the last few weeks.  (You _did_ notice, didn't you?)  The combination
     of vacation (white water rafting on the New River in West VA) and work
     hasn't left much time for emailing.

     The good news is that I was able to spend part of the time returning
     my 70 W-30 to the land of the living.  The car had been sitting for
     about a year, primarily due to the need for a new clutch.  A
     Centerforce unit fixed that (I've been meaning to try one for a while
     now) and the car is once again mobile.

     A little background.  This car was purchased ten years ago in
     Pasadena, CA.  It's a 4spd Holiday Coupe ("We don't allow those post
     cars in these parts, young fella" ;) with virtually no options beyond
     the mandatory W-30 hardware.  Fortunately, it does have a wing and
     buckets.  Unfortunately, the W-30 engine had been replaced with a 66
     400 by the previous owner ("B" block and "B" heads - however as an
     interesting update to a post of some time ago, these "B" heads are
     _not_ drilled for the A.I.R. injectors.  Someone at the time had
     claimed that all "B" castings were drilled from the factory, not just
     the California-bound cars).

     The good news is that when I bought the car, I had already acquired a
     70 W-30 long block in addition to the correct aluminum intake and
     O.A.I. adapter.  Unfortunately, that engine is still holding down my
     basement floor.  In addition, the car, despite being from CA, has rust
     in the usual places in the front and rear fenders.  It also suffers
     from the dreaded pinchweld rust around the front and back windows,
     making the car somewhat humid in the rain.  N.O.S. front fenders and
     replacement headliner and upholstery share space with the engine in
     the basement, awaiting the time and funds for the restoration.

     Anyway, I've been driving the car for the last two weeks, trying to
     shake out the gremlins which inhabit a non-functioning automobile.  I
     had to get the rotors turned due to the rust buildup and I temporarily
     put the 255/60-15 T/As from my H/O on the back of the W-30 to replace
     the treadless T/As which had previously been there.  It easily passed
     VA safety inspection.  So far, the only problem appears to be a bad
     heater core.

     Following a wash and interior cleanup, I took the car to cruise night
     at Cubby's Diner in Manassas this past Saturday.  With me was my
     youngest son, A.J., who is 10.  He has just started to show an
     interest in cars, having helped me change the oil and actually install
     the clutch.  Due to the rather grody look of the car under the hood, I
     elected to keep it closed while parked.  A.J., having seen the fine
     selection of cars parked there, was adamant that I open the hood to
     display the engine.  I reluctantly relented, at which point he went
     into the restaurant to get some paper towels and proceeded to start
     cleaning the engine!

     In addition to my 442, there were two other Olds' at the cruise, a
     primered 70 Supreme convertible and a nice 69 442 convert, out of
     about 50-75 cars.  In addition, once I lifted the hood, several people
     came up and talked.  One gentleman correctly noted that the engine was
     not a 455, and after being told that the car wasn't for sale, asked if
     I was interested in buying his 67 442 (well, I'm always interested).

     A.J., bless his heart, wants to do this again and has been on me to
     detail the engine compartment on the W-30.  We went to the coin-op
     carwash Sunday and blasted the engine (yes, unfortunately, it _was_
     that bad).  He then proceeded to scrub down the red fenderwells and
     Armor All them.  Meanwhile, I dressed the harnesses and cleaned up a
     set of finned RACs for installation for now.

     While getting to work on the car feels good (it has been far too long,
     due to family, work, divorce, remarriage, house, etc), doing it with
     my son felt even better.  And being able to get second gear scratch is
     pretty cool too.... ;)

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 00:47:31 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)

Karl Aune asked:

What is the difference between the 4GC (years up to 1965) and the Quadradet
(1966 on) ? Further, why are Qjets better (if at all) than 4GC?


     The 4GC was Rochester's first 4bbl.  It is a square bore carb (all
     four barrels approximately the same diameter) and has a lot in common
     internally with the 2GC 2bbl carb (what a surprise!).

     The Q-Jet is a spreadbore carb (tiny primary barrels for smooth idle,
     better fuel economy and humongous secondaries for power).  In
     addition, the Q-Jet has a very sophisticated and complex metering
     system, which works fabulously when tuned properly; unfortunately it
     is difficult to tune correctly.  This, of course, has lead to the love
     it or hate it feelings that most people have about the Q-jet.

     The two carbs have different bolt patterns and bore sizes (as noted
     above), so a different manifold (or, in a pinch, and adapter) is
     required to switch from one to the other.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:45:07 -0400
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure

At 08:31 PM 7/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>I was wondering does anybody know what the normal operating oil presuure is
>>supposed to be for a 1969 Cutlass Oldsmobile with a 350 engine with a 2
>>barrel carbeurator in P.S.I. Thanks!
>  According to my Chilton's book your 350 normal oil psi should be 35.The
>compression ratio is 9.00-1.

Funny, but there's *no* mention of this figure in the 1969 shop manual;
thought that would be included...

Anyway, that 35psi figure is good for 2000rpm, but at idle you can have
15-20psi (heck, the light doesn't come on until it falls to 6psi).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:45:13 -0400
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: advice needed

At 08:49 PM 7/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I find myself in need of some serious advice. I'm in the middle of a dilema
>on my rebuild. I understand that I can use the 350 pistons in my 400. I've
<snip>
>proper way to do this w/o losing all my compression and other considerations.

One thing that you should consider an essential for this buildup is the
Mondello Tech guide, along with his catalog. What pistons will work, and how
they'll work, is contained in these.

>The other point of concern is with my suspension modification. With the
>discs now installed from the doner T/A, what master cyl should I use. Is
>there a pwr master that will work on my 65 442?

How about the master cyl from that very T/A? Do you already have a power
booster on there now?

>interested. I would appreciate any response to this. I wonder if my msg's
>are making it to the list.

They're making it; just not many people here building early 400's.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:45:10 -0400
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 62 Starfire /Car Cruise/ Third Place Winner

At 06:13 PM 7/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,just got back from a car cruise in Pittsburgh,Pa. It was
<snip>
>And I got 3RD place will my 1962 Black Starfire,Two Tone Gray Leather

Congratulations, Larry! Sounds like a truly gorgeous car. Nice thing about
it is that now all those people attending the show know what a Starfire is,
and what it looks like, thanks to your efforts.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:08:24 -0400
From: dgerow@stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Subject: Re: seat back paint?

hhzimmerman wrote:

> Douglas J Harkema wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >     can you paint the plastic seat backs and armrest bases,  If so
> what kind of
> > paint and do any companies have the correct color for my needs?
> > Saddle interior
> >
> > I would figure it would have to be a very flat paint?
> > I'm grasping for money savings!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Doug H
> >
> > 70 supreme conv.
>
> Year One sells the "paint" and plastic prep stuff.  You spray the
> plastic with a coat of the special prep
> stuff, and while it is still wet (I think, but check the direction for
> specifics) you spray the paint,
> which is really a kind of dye.
>
> I waited until Year One came out with the white seat backs last year,
> and to my dismay, found out that my
> interior is pearl.  I painted them and they look fine, it's been a
> year and it hasn't peeled or cracked.
> When they get scratched up from passengers, just shoot some more paint
> to make them look new.
>
> -greg

   I used to Year One product on my '69 442 as a temp. solution.  Didn't
like it very much.  I did everything in the directions and completed all
the prep. work, but it looks kind of cheesey.  Also, it's only lasted
about a year.  I think they should call it One Year!  Ok, so its not
that funny...I just needed to play devil's advocate.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:22:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: seat back paint?

In a message dated 97-07-18 22:15:35 EDT, you write:

<< Hi
     can you paint the plastic seat backs and armrest bases,  If so what kind
of
 paint and do any companies have the correct color for my needs?
 Saddle interior

 I would figure it would have to be a very flat paint?
 I'm grasping for money savings!

 Thanks
 Doug H

 70 supreme conv. >>
Yes Doug, you can repaint your back seats and door panels and such vinyl
products.  The product you want is Sems vinyl prep and use the Dupont vinyl
paint.  They can be match easily by a Dupont carrring paint store.  I painted
my door panels and rear seat with the product and it is taking the wear and
tear and sunshine.  Just take one of the rear door panels and have them match
the paint with the material from the rear of it that has been tucked away
from the beginning of the cars life.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30
313 336 8135 IF ONE HAS QUESTIONS

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:52:51 -0500
From: ferguson@themall.net (Lloyd Ferguson)
Subject: Emblems and Scripts

I am about to put the emblems and scripts back on my 69 Cutlass S (when I
bought the car it had recently been painted and all the stuff came in a
box).  There are a couple of things I would like to know before proceeding
with this:

A) What is the proper method of mounting these items?  most of them have
studs which look to have a spiral groove.  Some of the studs have metal
clips over them as do some of the holes in the body.  For the most part,
the holes are empty, the stud is bare and the emblems just fall off when I
put them on.  Are the  clips available (I can't see them in any of my
catalogs)?  Are they supposed to be installed on the emblem and then the
whole assembly put on the car or do the clips go on the car and the emblem
pushed into them?  What is the proper way of removing the emblems once they
are installed?

B) My Fusick catalog talks about Claret Poly (purple) with Black highlights
for the Rocket and S emblems and Black paint inserted in the letters of the
Oldsmobile scripts.  I figured it would be easy to touch these up while
they are off (all the paint is missing on mine because the provious owner
may have had them rechromed), can anyone give me some guidence as to what
is supposed to be Purple and what black and perhaps supply a paint code for
the purple?


Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@themall.net
(818) 241-9350

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:36:25 +0300
From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Subject: Re: parts needed;questions

Gail Adams wrote:
> it on the road and feeling comfortable with it.  The brakes pull hard to
> the left.  I replaced the wheel cylinders and bled the system (mostly new

There are several reasons for the brake imbalance. Our Niny had this
same symptom and the reason was a bleeding brake cylinder.

To fix this You need to replace all rubber parts inside the cylinder.
When doing this, check that there is absolutely NO corrosion in the
cylider working surfaces. A corroded brake cylinder will bleed wether
You have new rubbers or not. Distinguish between corrosion and stains.
Remove the stains as well. Don't use sandpaper or steel-wool, these
will harm Your brake cylinders. Use some softer but still hard material
on removing the stains.

If corrosion is not bad, the cylinders can be fixed by scraping them
with a similar tool that is used to take ridges away from engine
cylinders. I think You name the tool as ridge reamer (right ?).

After having the brake cylinders in perfect shape, check out the
brake shoes for excessive wear. There should be enough material to keep
all metal parts apart from wheel drums. If in doubt, it's generally a
better idea to replace the shoes than put them back as such. Also,
try to clean out all remainings of brake fluid as it spoils Your
braking characteristics completely.

The third thing to check are the drums. There should be NO remainings
of brake fluid or other luricants. Even if the breaks would no more
bleed, the remainings of fluid will build a glass-like surface onto
the brake shoes resulting to misbehaving brakes.

Also check that there is no cracks on the drums. An easy way to do this
is to listen the sound they make after a light tap with hammer. The
sound should be a clean bell-like with no buzzing.

Sometimes the drums need their working surface to be reworked. This is
not
an expensive operation and I recommend it for longer brake shoe life.

It is a good idea to have all four brakes done at the same time. If the
brakes have been working properly, they have almost identical wear.

A well operating drum brake is clean, has no remainings of grease or
other fluids. The only stuff You should find is the dust coming from
the brake shoes. And if everything has been OK, this dust has been
also been blown away.

The brake hoses never collapse. The metal brake hoses can however be
stuck or bent but this is not what I would suspect first. Check anyway.

- --
Esko & Anneli Ilola

Mail:  Flintstensstigen 7B5     Tel: +358 2040 3439
       01610 VANDA FINLAND           +358 40 5575 116

Email: esko.ilola@tele.fi         \\\___
                              0\\\  o  ;/\\
Oldsmobile Ninety Eight       \\        \/ \
1964 4D HT                    //////\ //\   \
Holiday Sports Sedan                // \\   \

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:37:53 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Smog Adventure

I was enjoying my morning cuppa, reading the Olds mail, when...

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:

>  Boston & Providence just reek confidence &
> > solidarity that is so soothing & comfortable.
> Everyone,
>
> I want to delete everything I said about Boston.  I forgot that Tim
> Churchill has not been so friendly to the Southern cause or to Southern
> citizens.

<Snort> Huh??

No Bill, you misunderstand.  I've only been poking fun with you,
in what I assumed to be genial repartee, between you and I when
you've made disparate remarks about folks & culture north of the
Mason-Dixon.  I have never meant offense to any cause or citizenry
in the South.

Guess I'll have to make a note that you've no sense of humor, huh?

Remember, I used to live in 'Bama too,not far from Decatur.
Took 'Bama history for three years.

Yours in Oldsmobiling



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:00:13 -0500
From: ferguson@themall.net (Lloyd Ferguson)
Subject: Emblems and Scripts

I am about to put the emblems and scripts back on my 69 Cutlass S (when I
bought the car it had recently been painted and all the stuff came in a
box).  There are a couple of things I would like to know before proceeding
with this:

A) What is the proper method of mounting these items?  most of them have
studs which look to have a spiral groove.  Some of the studs have metal
clips over them as do some of the holes in the body.  For the most part,
the holes are empty, the stud is bare and the emblems just fall off when I
put them on.  Are the  clips available (I can't see them in any of my
catalogs)?  Are they supposed to be installed on the emblem and then the
whole assembly put on the car or do the clips go on the car and the emblem
pushed into them?  What is the proper way of removing the emblems once they
are installed?

B) My Fusick catalog talks about Claret Poly (purple) with Black highlights
for the Rocket and S emblems and Black paint inserted in the letters of the
Oldsmobile scripts.  I figured it would be easy to touch these up while
they are off (all the paint is missing on mine because the provious owner
may have had them rechromed), can anyone give me some guidence as to what
is supposed to be Purple and what black and perhaps supply a paint code for
the purple?


Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@themall.net
(818) 241-9350

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:58:04 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: W31 damper ID?

- ----------
> From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
> To: me from myself <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>; oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: W31 damper ID?
> Date: Saturday, July 19, 1997 3:00 PM
>
> Hoping one of you can h*lp ID that much-ballyhoo'd elusive W31 harmonic
damper.
> I have a few misc. dampers on hand, just measured a couple. I presume
we're
> talking the straight barrel type, not the "stepped" style as used on say
a '68
> 350 motor. Anyhow, the two I measured were:
>
> most common: ~6.5" dia., and right about 1" thick.
> less common: same dia., but thicker, about 1 & 3/8" thick.
>
> Yet, I have been told that the latter one is not a W31 type.
>
> So, OK, what *does* a W31 tpye look like, how can I tell if I do find
one?
>
> Stepped or straight style?
> Dia. same as usual, about 6.5"?
> Thickness front to rear?
>
> thanks!
> --
> Chris  B. Witt
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:08:01 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: [none]

Inspection Adventures, as sort of response to the Smog Adventures thread:

Here in MA, as has been previously stated, cars over 15 years of age
are exempt from emissions testing.  And nothing is pending in the
State House to change this.

This didn't prevent me from having a li'l bit of anxiety this past
weekend...

The previous owner replaced the rear bumper with one from a standard
Cutlass, where the back-up lights are in the lower taillight lenses.
However, he kept the Supreme taillight configuration, such that I have
no backup lights.  For the five years I've owned the car, this had not
been a problem at inspection time.  Until this past Saturday, when I took
Big Red for its sticker.

The gentleman when through his litany  -- "high beams, low beams, horn, wipers,
directionals", etc.  Then he said, "...backup lights...", waiting expectantly
behind the car.

"Err, um, no backup lights", I said.  "Back then, they, err, were optional."

The few seconds he eyed me rather dubiously were anxious, to say the least.

Then he shrugged, and checked to see I had working seatbelts, another first
for me at inspection time.

Olds Sightings:

Last week, driving home around 8:30PM on the Mass Pike, I saw a '67 Cutlass
convertible heading the other way, back in to Boston.  It *may* have
been Saffron, like another one I've seen, but the interior looked black
in the half second I had to see it, rather than the Parchment color
I've seen.  On the other hand, the car may have been more of an off-white
color.  Assuming it was painted an original color (it looked great, BTW),
what was available in '67?  I could look it up this evening, I was just
wondering...

The weekend before this past one, we were visiting friends in Monmouth Co.,
NJ.  On Saturday we drove to the Jersey shore for an enjoyable day at the
beach.  Going over the bridge to Pt. Pleasant Beach, while waiting in
traffic, we saw a beautiful '66 Cutlass convertible, top down, painted some
sort of Burgundy color.  The gent had what looked like a piece of lumber
(?!?) sticking up over the back, one end jammed under the front seat.
Was that a list member?  Couldn't you have borrowed a truck to carry
lumber in? :)

Olds on NPR:

Yesterday morning, while making breakfast, I had NPR Sunday Edition on,
though I wasn't really listening to it.  When I turned it on, they were
interviewing a woman who sounded like a radio DJ of note in the Boston
area, though whoever it was played a few songs of hers, so I assumed they
were talking to some folk singer.  I sort of phased it out, until I heard
her mention the origin of the song they just played, that I stupidly didn't
listen to:

"A friend of mine's Dad worked for GM, and for a while he was driving an
Oldsmobile wagon with an experimental engine, and he'd take down to the
track and beat everything in sight", or something to that effect.

The artist was Kathy Mattea, who sings that Olds song mentioned in
a thread some months back.

I think they repeat some Sunday Edition stuff on the following Saturday,
so I'll have to tune in to hear if it's replayed...




Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:41:41 -0700 (MST)
From: d houlton x0710 <tc75918@hpra10.mdhc.mdc.com>
Subject: '87 front end exchange???

Hi all.  I've been looking for a decent '87 442 w/ t-tops for the last
year or so.  Just checking papers, auto trader, the web, etc.  Still
no luck (at least that I can afford).  The main reason I want the '87
is for the front end and I want the 442 for the tranny, rear end and
suspension pieces.

Now I know this may sound like heresey to some of the Olds purists,
but I'm considering getting an older say '85 - '87 with T-Tops which
I've seen quite a few more of and putting the front end of a junkyard
'87 on it.  Will this fit OK?  My guess is that it's probably a strait
bolt on affair with at most a few mounting bracket differences.  Any-
one know for sure?

Also, the engine will be replaced with an Olds 350 or 403.  I'm in
Mesa, AZ.  Can anyone recommend a good OLDS engine guy in the area??

thanks
- --Dan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:10:16 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Inspection Adventures,  Sightings, and NPR

Inspection Adventures, as sort of response to the Smog Adventures thread:

Here in MA, as has been previously stated, cars over 15 years of age
are exempt from emissions testing.  And nothing is pending in the
State House to change this.

This didn't prevent me from having a li'l bit of anxiety this past
weekend...

The previous owner replaced the rear bumper with one from a standard
Cutlass, where the back-up lights are in the lower taillight lenses.
However, he kept the Supreme taillight configuration, such that I have
no backup lights.  For the five years I've owned the car, this had not
been a problem at inspection time.  Until this past Saturday, when I took
Big Red for its sticker.

The gentleman when through his litany  -- "high beams, low beams, horn, wipers,
directionals", etc.  Then he said, "...backup lights...", waiting expectantly
behind the car.

"Err, um, no backup lights", I said.  "Back then, they, err, were optional."

The few seconds he eyed me rather dubiously were anxious, to say the least.

Then he shrugged, and checked to see I had working seatbelts, another first
for me at inspection time.

Olds Sightings:

Last week, driving home around 8:30PM on the Mass Pike, I saw a '67 Cutlass
convertible heading the other way, back in to Boston.  It *may* have
been Saffron, like another one I've seen, but the interior looked black
in the half second I had to see it, rather than the Parchment color
I've seen.  On the other hand, the car may have been more of an off-white
color.  Assuming it was painted an original color (it looked great, BTW),
what was available in '67?  I could look it up this evening, I was just
wondering...

The weekend before this past one, we were visiting friends in Monmouth Co.,
NJ.  On Saturday we drove to the Jersey shore for an enjoyable day at the
beach.  Going over the bridge to Pt. Pleasant Beach, while waiting in
traffic, we saw a beautiful '66 Cutlass convertible, top down, painted some
sort of Burgundy color.  The gent had what looked like a piece of lumber
(?!?) sticking up over the back, one end jammed under the front seat.
Was that a list member?  Couldn't you have borrowed a truck to carry
lumber in? :)

Olds on NPR:

Yesterday morning, while making breakfast, I had NPR Sunday Edition on,
though I wasn't really listening to it.  When I turned it on, they were
interviewing a woman who sounded like a radio DJ of note in the Boston
area, though whoever it was played a few songs of hers, so I assumed they
were talking to some folk singer.  I sort of phased it out, until I heard
her mention the origin of the song they just played, that I stupidly didn't
listen to:

"A friend of mine's Dad worked for GM, and for a while he was driving an
Oldsmobile wagon with an experimental engine, and he'd take down to the
track and beat everything in sight", or something to that effect.

The artist was Kathy Mattea, who sings that Olds song mentioned in
a thread some months back.

I think they repeat some Sunday Edition stuff on the following Saturday,
so I'll have to tune in to hear if it's replayed...




Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:33:49 -0300
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@orbital.com>
Subject: Re: Emblems and Scripts

A) What is the proper method of mounting these items?  most of them have
studs which look to have a spiral groove.

     Most of these emblems use a stamped sheetmetal nut which screws on from
     the backside.  The nut is self-threading, hence the spiral groove.
     Others will use small metal clips which are inserted into the holes in
     the body and which grip the emblem studs with friction.  These clips
     are available at most auto body paint stores.

     As you may have noticed, many of the emblems which use the nuts require
     the disassembly of the body to allow access to the backside (most
     notably, the Cutlass emblems on the front fenders).  In such cases, I
     have used the metal clips in place of the nuts with success.
     Unfortunately, this usually requires opening up the holes in the
     fender, a delicate job on a freshly painted car.  If you choose this
     route, snap the clips into the fender prior to installing the emblem.
     Also, if your emblem studs have been cut with a spiral groove, be sure
     to clean up any upset metal with a file prior to pressing into the
     clips.  Also, whether you use the original nuts or the clips, dab a
     little clear silicone sealer into each hole prior to installing the
     emblem.  This will prevent rust from starting after the inevitable
     scratches from emblem installation.  In fact, you may just want to glue
     the emblems on with clear silicone and avoid the clips/nuts entirely.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30






------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:21:17 -0700
From: Jar Lyons <jarl@atrieva.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible Speakers

In my 72, there are factory mounts in the well behind the rear seat.
I installed 6x9's there, and they sound great when the tops up.

(I just carefully cut the well liner and bolted them in from
behind.)

For driving with the top down, I ran the speaker wires for
the 'front' pair behind the back seat, one on each side, so the
wire comes up near the outboard seatbelts.  The wire
ends in a quick-connect plug.  So I keep a pair of Radio Shack
bookshelf speakers sitting on the rear seat.  I can unplug
them and throw them in the trunk if I have passengers
back there.

BTW, I was able to install my deck vertically in the
center console storage compartment, after removing the
false bottom and building a frame, so unless you actually
open the compartment you wouldn't even notice the mods.

Of course I left the in-dash AM deck too.


- --
Have you backed up your data today?
Atrieva Internet Backup Service http://www.atrieva.com

Jar Lyons
jarl@atrieva.com
Atrieva Corporation  (www.atrieva.com)
600 University Street, Suite 911
Seattle, WA  98101
Voice: (206) 749-2914,
Fax:   (206) 382-6615
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
                1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
                       455 Rocket Powered
                'How fast do you want to go today?'
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 10:22:21 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Pick-a-parts in LA

I did the usual tour-de-pick-a-part of the three lots in Wilmington on 
saturday.
 Spotted some items that may be of interest to the locals.  These are at the
Pick-a-part at the north end of Blinn.  Email me if you need directions

A circa 1970 98 with 455 (E Heads) and front disks.  Couln't figure out the
exact year might be a 71 or 2.  This car is burned to a crisp from the C pillar
forward.  Don't know if that front disk setup will be usable but the hard parts
were all there, spindles OK?, get calipers and disks from pep boys?  (Dan Lacy
are you out there?)

a 71 0r 72 VC, no engine, undented hood and fenders (have usual rust in lower
corners).  Has rear bumper but didn't inspect closely (sorry I forgot Lisa
Madsen was looking for one of these IIRC).  Had giant flip up visors over the
back "sunroof".  Also had electric tailgate, switch, remote drivers mirror.

Also, I have a couple of Items for sale people on the list have asked about in
the last week.

1970 Cutlass Supreme AMFM stereo,  has been sitting around for 12 years, worked
when I took it out.  Can't find the booster box for the back channel though.
 How's $30 plus shipping sound?

(2) 15x7 SSII off a 74 Cutlass with all caps (screw on type) and trim rings.
Rust free (California).  I was going to put these on my 70 Culass when I found 
a
second pair but I'm ready to give up on the search. (with 2.56 gears, the last
thing my Cutlass needs is bigger diameter tires anyway).  $120 for the pair 
plus
shipping.

Hans

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:31:37 -0500
From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Subject: 67 Cutlass FS

I talked to a guy (about selling some of my GTO parts) who knows someone
who owns a bodyshop and is selling a 67 Cutlass.  I haven't called the guy
but figured I would post it in case there is any interest.
It is a 330 w/ A/C and it does have some rust.  He is asking $3000, located
in Ft Wayne, IN (219) 441-8148, ask for Joe.
Usual disclaimers as this is all I know.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:49:05 -0500
From: "Chris R. Smetana" <Chris_R._Smetana@dadc.com>
Subject: 71 442 FS

I made a quick trip home to Chicago Sat and stopped to look at a car in
Northern IN.  It turns out this is the same car that was for sale back in
Nov when I stopped to look at it when trailing my W-31 from my Dad's patio
to my house in Terre Haute.
71 442 HT vinª 344871M129466
ST71 34487LAN253970
TR 952   11 11
01A
(I'll just type in the info on the sheet of paper that was on the car.)
1971 (last model year)
White with green interior
455/270 horsepower
8.5-1 compression
3.23 rear gear
1st year of unleaded gas
Turbo 400 Automatic Trans
Trans rebuilt 4-8-82
Positraction
59,179 Original miles
(it actually now has 59,500 as I drove it)
Dual exhaust
Rev limiter
Air conditioning
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Bench Seat (cloth)
1st year of rear defrost
Light package
Hood lock
Visor mirror
Sport steering wheel
Exhaust cutout rear bumper
Bumper guards
Sway bar
Original spare tire
Original Protecto Plate
Original owners manual
Headers installed 6-90
alternator installed 9-89
owned since 1978
Always garaged
Only driven on dry, summer days
New Parts:
rear tires
entire brake system including master cylinder and lines (except for
booster)
complete tune up with split fire plugs
spark plug wires antifreeze and thermostat
transmission fluid and on new line (that what the sheet of paper said)
complete new exhaust
rebuilt original carb
George (219) 322-7364, best offer over $6500

Like I said I test drove the car and it runs and drives A1, very solid.  He
did say the car does have a little bondo and the paint is original from
when he bought it.  The engine does need to be detailed and he has the
original radio and aircleaner.  About the carb, the number on it is (what I
think) 7043255, this isn't original right?  He wants to sell it because he
would rather drive his 69 H/O instead and needs the garage space.  The car
also has, but the sheet didn't list, p/w, front discs, 15" SSIII

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
csmetana@disc.sony.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:05:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Pajak_John%PAX1@mr.nawcad.navy.mil
Subject: Buy This Please !!

     FOR SALE
NOTE PRICE REDUCTION !!!!

1972 Oldsmobile 442 convertible. 129K, 350 4 barrel, rebuilt Turbo 350
automatic; runs good. Power steering, power brakes with front discs. A/C all
there but needs recharging. Flame orange with white W30-style stripes. Sport
mirrors. Nice grilles. (5) 14x7 SSII wheels. White bench seat interior,
shifter on column. Front and rear seat upholstery correct and new. No radio.
New white top with glass window. Has headers and dual exhaust. A decent
presentable driver. Was friend's car; purchased from estate. I have too many
cars! $4500 FIRM

Please respond directly to the email address below or call after 5:00 PM EST
weekdays or weekends anytime!

John Pajak    301-863-5319
Lexington Park, MD
Pajak_John%PAX1@MR.NAWCAD.NAVY.MIL

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:52:56 -0700
From: Jar Lyons <jarl@atrieva.com>
Subject: Re: '71 park lite available

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>
> to the guy who needs a '71 parking lite, etc. please contact me. The current
> parts car has such a unit, and I told my kid he could keep the money if he 
can
> sell it. He got all excited about that...
> --
> Chris  B. Witt
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but I
could use a trunk light assembly.  Mine is the kind
that attaches to the trunk hinge attach flange, meaning
the assembly does NOT rotate with the trunk cover.

I need everything.  All I have left is the wire leading to it.


- --
Have you backed up your data today?
Atrieva Internet Backup Service http://www.atrieva.com

Jar Lyons
jarl@atrieva.com
Atrieva Corporation  (www.atrieva.com)
600 University Street, Suite 911
Seattle, WA  98101
Voice: (206) 749-2914,
Fax:   (206) 382-6615
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
                1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
                       455 Rocket Powered
                'How fast do you want to go today?'
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:29:48 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Inactivity and 4GC vs. Qjets (long?)

>From: KarlAunan@aol.com
>The reason for this is my inherent luck (read as dubious future.
>nuff said?). I have begun to use Chicago's public transportation
>as conveyance work.

Yow. How about just updating your resume instead? Seriously, I've
commuted by CTA (electric rapid-transit trains, for those of you
not familiar with it) and by Metra (more-conventional Diesel-electric
choo-choos pulling real passenger cars on real railroad tracks), and
Metra is a godsend if they go where you go. The CTA is not. But in
either case, they do enable you to save wear and tear on the Olds,
and your insurance should be lower if you do not use the car for
commuting (at least if you live in the suburbs). I was quite happy
to leave my Cutlass at home on days when I didn't have to put it
through a Kennedy Expressway rush hour (and a half).

>Read this as a penny saved is an Offy
>Tunnel Ram earned, or at best, odds of my appearing at lansing increased.

Well, yes, not only gasoline but also insurance (provided your account
is set up right with your agent), tires, brakes, and whatever else has
not broken yet because you're no longer driving as much. Look, commuting
is not recreational driving, it's work driving, even if you get to drive
a nice car (i.e. yours) to do it. Does your employer reimburse those
expenses you run up commuting in your car? Didn't think so.

>As for those of  you all not on the digest; there are advantages and
>disadvantages.

Oh, yeah. Greg Beaulieu is probably rolling his eyes at this point.
("Oh, gawd, here he goes...") See below.

>Disadvantages; I find myself deprived of the privilege of deleting
>messages that I recognise as superfluous (such as questions that
>have already been nswered by the time that I garner Email).

Not to mention the bright sparks who post JPG files to the list
and trigger output of multiple digests.

My minor gripe up to now has been that when I want to reply or
post a followup, I must manually readdress it (for replies) and
snip a ton of excess digest text in order to quote the relevant
part in my answer. But this I was willing to do in exchange for
not having 100+ separate postings in my In box with real-time
distribution.

But recently a new problem has surfaced, and Greg has worked
very hard but without success to figure this out: my copies of
the digest are almost always truncated somewhere in transmission
between Canada and here. I'm about to go back to real-time mode
for the sake of getting anything at all.

>On to the Oldsmobile pith of this missive. My recent communiques with D
>

And here, believe it or not, is exactly where digest ª765 stopped.
Ironic, isn't it?

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:41:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: OldsHeidi@aol.com
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª765

Please send any further Oldsmobile Digests to:

TalkWithOlds@Oldsmobile.com



Thanks!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:49:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: GlassHoteI@aol.com
Subject: More SS Centercap Questions

While peeling the old decals off my center caps, I noticed that there are two
different types of bolt-on center caps for the SSII and SSIII wheels:

Type 1 has no angle on the dish where the decal goes, and the background of
the rocket emblem is ridged.

Type 2 has an angle on the dish where the decal goes, and the background of
the rocket emblem is smooth.

The decal diameter of Type 1 is about 1 /16th of an inch wider than the decal
for Type 2.

Does anyone know what the proper application for these center caps?  And does
anyone know of anyone that sells the decals with the ridged background?  I
can only find the decals with the smooth background.  Thanks for any help
that can be provided.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:06:02 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Subject: Re: On the road again...

padavano.joe wrote:

>      Well, you may have noticed my limited participation on the list for
>      the last few weeks.  (You _did_ notice, didn't you?)  The combination

Of course Joe we noticed!  Instead of having "Where in world is Carmen
San
Diego" we should have "Where in the world is Joe Padavano" :-)

>      of vacation (white water rafting on the New River in West VA) and work
>      hasn't left much time for emailing.

Are you saying that rafting is more important than this list?!?!?  You
really need to get a life Joe.  :-)

- -snip-

>      A little background.  This car was purchased ten years ago in
>      Pasadena, CA.  It's a 4spd Holiday Coupe ("We don't allow those post
>      cars in these parts, young fella" ;) with virtually no options beyond

Well ya know that there is fight'n words.  Better not let my car hear
this.
:-)  I know you said that statement for my benefit Joe. :-)

- -snip-

>      display the engine.  I reluctantly relented, at which point he went
>      into the restaurant to get some paper towels and proceeded to start
>      cleaning the engine!

Such a good child!  Does he do windows? :-)

- -snip-

Good to see ya back.

Chris Sparks
68 442 SC (I won't tell her about the post incident)
68 442 HT (Jealous of the SC since it looks better)
82 DRB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:55:31 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: On the road again...

At 01:28 AM 7/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>     The good news is that I was able to spend part of the time returning
>     my 70 W-30 to the land of the living.  The car had been sitting for
<snip>
>     While getting to work on the car feels good (it has been far too long,
>     due to family, work, divorce, remarriage, house, etc), doing it with
>     my son felt even better.  And being able to get second gear scratch is
>     pretty cool too.... ;)

Great to hear about your car's resurrection! My SX is undergoing a similar
fate right now, though my 2-year old daughter's skills only extend to
running off on my when I'm under the middle of the car. :(
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:55:30 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 403 Oldsmobile 77-78

At 05:20 PM 7/21/97 +1200, you wrote:
>Hi this is Dave Smith here in New Zealand.
>I am currently rebuilding a 403 Olds engine, the only problem is, there
>is very little specific information on the 403 here in N.Z.
>Any information or exploded views of the 403 would be a great help.

Dave,

The 403 is identical to the Olds 350, except for the bore size. Of course,
this is little help if you don't have information on the 350... Any shop
manual, though, from 1968-1980 should have an exploded diagram of a typical
Olds V-8 engine (in fact, I think they used the exact same diagram through
all those years, with minor changes), and any rebuild procedures for a
260/307/330/350 Olds motor should apply to the 403.

Oh, if you can't find an Olds manual from 1968-1980, you can also try any GM
(Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac) shop manual from approx 1978-1990, since
it covers all engines that would be installed in any model from that maker,
and the Olds 307 and 350 (as well as the 403 from 1977-1979) was a GM
"corporate" motor during that period, being used in everything from Caprice
wagons to Buick Regals to Cadillac Sedan DeVilles.

If all else fails, I can photocopy the page of torque and clearance specs
for a 403 and mail them off to you; just leave an address.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:55:28 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 403 => 7a heads

At 11:36 PM 7/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone inquired as to the compression boost obtained by utilizing ª5-6-7-7a
>heads on a 403. My calculations show:
<snip>
>Quite a jump from the 8.1 or so that the stock setup calculates out to.
>
>So, a friend recently sold off a set of 7a's, all set up for 403 use, big
>valves, fresh valve job, etc. Seems like a setup like that oughta be worth
>$300, don't ya think? Shoot, just a valve job & cut for larger valves would 
run
>over $150...
>  Compared to other ways of altering the 403's CRatio [pistons] that's cheap!

You got that right! $300 beats the $660 custom piston option. Don't forget
about reaming the head-bolt holes for the 403's 1/2" bolts.

One other nice feature about the '72 "7a" heads is that they use the larger
1.62" exhaust valves, rather than the more prevalent 1.5" valves on the
garden-variety ª5's and 6's (not sure what the straight ª7 heads used). Of
course, the W-31's used the 2.00"/1.62" valves, but you don't often see them
in junkyards, do you? (well, maybe Chris does, but everybody else?)

So, all you have to do to upgrade your 7a's to W-31 valve sizes is snatch
the 2.00" intakes from the old 403 heads and have the seats cut bigger when
you get the valve job done.

With slightly-cut 7a's on my +.030 403, I'm getting 170psi on a compression
test; did anyone keep the approximate conversion chart for Compression
Ratio/Cylinder Pressure? I would hope I've got a solid 9.75:1 compression
(heads were also cut about .030" before the rebuild), but I never measured
this out exactly. I do know that I can get by on 92-93 octane gas, but I
also know that I *can't* run 89 octane, especially not with the factory-spec
16' initial timing advance. I may play with this and see if it affects the
engine's power.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:09:29 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Emblems and Scripts

Lloyd Ferguson wrote:

> A) What is the proper method of mounting these items?  most of them have
> studs which look to have a spiral groove.  Some of the studs have metal
> clips over them as do some of the holes in the body.  For the most part,
> the holes are empty, the stud is bare and the emblems just fall off when I
> put them on.  Are the  clips available (I can't see them in any of my
> catalogs)?  Are they supposed to be installed on the emblem and then the
> whole assembly put on the car or do the clips go on the car and the emblem
> pushed into them?  What is the proper way of removing the emblems once they
> are installed?

I believe the metal clips are held down by some sort of black goo.  When
I
pulled my emblems off before, I made sure I left the goo since the clip
won't
hold the post of the emblem.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:11:38 -0700
From: Jar Lyons <jarl@atrieva.com>
Subject: Re: seat back paint?

I just bought some replacements from Year One.

For the effort involved, and assuming your material
is starting to flake (mine was really bad),
I'd recommend just getting some replacements.

My cost was about $80.  And I didn't even ask
for their 10% discount.


- --
Have you backed up your data today?
Atrieva Internet Backup Service http://www.atrieva.com

Jar Lyons
jarl@atrieva.com
Atrieva Corporation  (www.atrieva.com)
600 University Street, Suite 911
Seattle, WA  98101
Voice: (206) 749-2914,
Fax:   (206) 382-6615
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
                1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
                       455 Rocket Powered
                'How fast do you want to go today?'
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:27:34 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Bill SB-24 - FAILED passage late yesterday

>MR-Received: by mta SENAT2; Relayed; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:05:38 -0700
>MR-Received: by mta LINET; Relayed; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:05:50 -0700
>Alternate-recipient: prohibited
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Office SC08 <Senator.Kopp@SEN.CA.GOV>
>Subject: RE: Bill SB-24
>To: jht <jht@exo.com>
>Posting-date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
>Importance: normal
>Priority: normal
>UA-content-id: A55ZWYDFUCFC
>X400-MTS-identifier: [;83501112707991/1820673@SENATE]
>A1-type: MAIL
>Hop-count: 2
>
>        FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEContact:Kevin
>        Nguyen
>        July 17, 1997  (415)
>        301-1721
>
>             COMMITTEE PULLS AUTO EXEMPTION BILL OVER TO SHOULDER,
>                         KOPP CALLS FOR ROAD ASSISTANCE
>
>        Despite 12,000 letters, Internet messages and petitions
>        of support, Senate Bill 42, by Senator Quentin L. Kopp
>        (Independent - San Francisco/San Mateo), failed passage late
>        yesterday in the State Assembly Appropriations Committee.  SB 42
>        would exempt vehicles 25 or more model years old from
>        California's biennial smog check requirement.
>
>        Kopp's measure passed by a 33-0 vote in the Senate and a
>        17-0 vote in the Assembly Transportation Committee.  In Assembly
>        Appropriations, however, a motion to pass SB 42 to the full
>        Assembly fell three votes short and was rejected, 8-8.  SB 42
>        was subsequently placed on the committee's Suspense File, which
>        allows Kopp to pursue another vote as soon as late-August.
>
>        "I'm disappointed but undeterred by the vote," said
>        Kopp.  "As proponents and supporters of SB 42, we must now focus
>        our attention and redouble our efforts to impress upon the
>        Assembly Appropriations Committee members the urgency and
>        necessity of this legislation."  (The Assembly Appropriations
>        Committee can be reached at 916-322-4323, or State Capitol, Room
>        2114, Sacramento, CA  95814.)
>
>        The number of affected vehicles is small; the Air
>        Resources Board estimates that the bill would exempt
>        approximately 400,000 vehicles (or slightly more than 1%) of the
>        23,000,000 registered passenger automobiles in California.  The
>        bill would affect only those vehicles manufactured from 1966 to
>        1973; pre-1966 vehicles already are excluded from the smog
>        check.
>
>        "The bureaucrats oppose this commonsense measure not on
>        the basis of policy but on the basis of the smog certificate fee
>        revenues that would be lost to their programs!" stated Kopp, who
>        is Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee.
>
>        In addition to attracting national attention from many
>        individuals and trade publications, SB 42's official supporters
>        include the California State Automobile Associ-ation, numerous
>        other car collector clubs and Jay Leno, host of the "Tonight
>        Show."
>
>                                      ªªª
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:28:56 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Emblems and Scripts

>> A) What is the proper method of mounting these items?  most of them have
>> studs which look to have a spiral groove.

These would take a stamped nut with a hex profile that screws on
with a socket wrench. I can't remember whether this is called a Pal
nut or a Tinnerman nut (anyone?), but it's pressed out of sheet metal
with a really coarse thread-cutting hole in the middle. Twist it on
and it chews its own thread. The factory puts a blob of goop on in
back to keep it all snug.

>> Some of the studs have metal
>> clips over them as do some of the holes in the body.

Little tubular thingies? Haven't done battle with those too much.
I think they either install in the hole, then you press the nameplate
in (which expands the clip to grip the hole, like a rivet), or you
slide the clip over the pin of the nameplate, then snap it into the
hole that way.

>> For the most part,
>> the holes are empty, the stud is bare and the emblems just fall off when I
>> put them on.

If there are no obvious cut threads on the stud, it would have taken
a round clip. If you see threads gouged into the stud, there is a
missing screw-on Pal/Tinnerman nut you'll need to replace.

>>  Are the  clips available (I can't see them in any of my
>> catalogs)?

Well, keep looking. Try a friendly GM dealer, too.

>>  Are they supposed to be installed on the emblem and then the
>> whole assembly put on the car or do the clips go on the car and the emblem
>> pushed into them?

See above.

>>  What is the proper way of removing the emblems once they
>> are installed?

I think the nuts are used when there is access from that side,
such as via the trunk, and you go back there with the right size
of socket wrench and simply unscrew 'em. Blind tubular clips would
be used elsewhere; for those I suppose you pull straight out on the
emblem and hope for the best.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:40:59 +0000
From: TERRANCE ROHNER <tthiel@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: '87 front end exchange???

d houlton x0710 wrote:
>
> Hi all.  I've been looking for a decent '87 442 w/ t-tops for the last
> year or so.  Just checking papers, auto trader, the web, etc.  Still
> no luck (at least that I can afford).  The main reason I want the '87
> is for the front end and I want the 442 for the tranny, rear end and
> suspension pieces.
>
> Now I know this may sound like heresey to some of the Olds purists,
> but I'm considering getting an older say '85 - '87 with T-Tops which
> I've seen quite a few more of and putting the front end of a junkyard
> '87 on it.  Will this fit OK?  My guess is that it's probably a strait
> bolt on affair with at most a few mounting bracket differences.  Any-
> one know for sure?
>
> Also, the engine will be replaced with an Olds 350 or 403.  I'm in
> Mesa, AZ.  Can anyone recommend a good OLDS engine guy in the area??
>
> thanks
> --Dan
did you find your 87' nose piece?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:47:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Emblems and Scripts

On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> These would take a stamped nut with a hex profile that screws on
> with a socket wrench. I can't remember whether this is called a Pal
> nut or a Tinnerman nut (anyone?), but it's pressed out of sheet metal
> with a really coarse thread-cutting hole in the middle. Twist it on
> and it chews its own thread. The factory puts a blob of goop on in
> back to keep it all snug.

<major snippage of lengthy reply>

> Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282


Oh wow, he's back in real-time mode... I *have* to get that digest fixed
ASAP now...

;-) ;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª766
********************************
