To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #722


oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 17 June 1997       Volume 01 : Number 722

Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois
15X7 SSII's
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: 15X7 SSII's
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: 15X7 SSII's
1965 F-85 for Sale
(no subject)
Re: 15X7 SSII's
Race
Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?
Re: Race
Re: 15X7 SSII's
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Re: Race
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Electical Problems
Re: Twin Turbo, Injected 67
Re: Twin Turbo, Injected 67
[Fwd: Clock help]
Wiring Questions
Re: [Fwd: Clock help]
Re: Electical Problems
engine/head id
Re: Race
Paint for steering column
Re: 70 SX
73 Omega for sale
Re: engine/head id
Re: Rocket Origins; was 455
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???
Re: I Wuz Wrong (Last installment)
Re: Rocket Origins; was 455
Re: Race
RE:Oldsmobile Edge Pkg.
Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois
Re: Olds Innovations in the 30's
Re: [Fwd: Clock help]
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Paint for steering column
'68 H/O (was B, O, or P 455? Which is better?)
Re: Race
Re: Race
W-32 decal locations
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re[2]: Race
72 Olds 442 package
Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
Re: Race
442? Naise, Try 541!
Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:28:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

In a message dated 97-06-16 12:52:27 EDT, you write:

>  One of the events the IVOC (Illinois Valley Olds Club)
>  frequents every year is the car show at Lambs Farm
>  in Libertyville.  The show this year is this Sunday, 06/22.

>  The IVOC members will be meeting before the show between
>  8:30-9:30am at the Lake Forest Oasis on I-94.  We will
>  then caravan together to the show so that all the Olds
>  can park together.
>  -Jeff
>  jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>  1970 442  4-Speed

Uh oh. Libertyville. Looks like I can not avoid going to this one. It is
close enough for me to make it there under my own power! I am not certain
that I will know which oasis is the Lake Forest one. Hmmm. I guess I will
just drive up to the parking lot of each and stop when I see lots of
horsepower!


In a message dated 97-06-03 21:41:25 EDT, KarlAunan writes:


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  (witticism)


------------------------------

From: <Michael_Baugher@americancentury.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:21:55 -0300
Subject: 15X7 SSII's

Did I just miss out on a steal? I was at a swap meet and saw a set of 4
rims on fair tires.  The inside of one of the rims
said 15X7JJ, and the other 3 said nothing, but were on 15 inch tires...were
these Hurst Olds wheels?

The guy wanted $75 for the set...

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:52:48 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

> Hmm, I originally asked about the B, O, P engines and naturally the chevy
> engines come in to get thrashed on ;-)

I just replied to someone's posting about Chevy's

> My 88 Iroc-Z was a cheap entry level
> car. I mean it only had 150,000+ miles on it with only the steering pump
> ever going bad. Sisters 87 Impala has 223,000 with only the water pump
> replaced after it sat for 2 years. My dad's towing company has Chevy trucks
> as towtrucks and some are approaching 200-250k of very strenuous loads on
> the engine...no major problems. I could go on and on with examples of cheap
> entry level pieces of junk outlasting alot of Oldsmobiles but I won't.

I could talk about my freinds parents Custom Cruiser (307) that had
270,000 trouble free miles when he took it apart (still ran good) to
clean up the internals because his dads idea of an oil change was to add
oil when it got low (wouldn't turn over when he put it back together) or
the pastor at my mom's church who's '78 (?) Cutlass Salon (260) had
240,000 trouble free miles when he traded it in. Or the article in the
local paper a while back about an original owner Olds that turned over
400,000 miles with the original engine! Or we could talk about my GMC
(4.3)that has bad piston knock if the motor has cooled off, noisy
lifters that make it sound like a diesel in winter, the power steering
pump shaft that snapped in half, the outer axle bearings that are going
bad, the clunking noise from the rear end if I'm going slower than 10
mph (bearings?), the guy at my work who bought a brand new Chevy truck
and had to replace the rear end 3 times in 2 years and now owns a
Trouble free Toyota, and I could go on and on but I wont.

> As
> for performance, I run 13.4 at the track with a Z that weighs more and has a
> small block 350 with only a few minor bolt on mods while a close to stock 69
> H/O can only run 13.8 and we both had modern street tires. Pretty hard to
> find an engine Olds ever made that could match the technology of the
> LT1...granted GM killed the chances for them or I am sure the Olds 350 would
> be just as advanced today. Ok of my Chevy trip.....hadn't had one in awhile
> and feel like being flamed ;-)

I've seen '68 H/O that was stock (looking) on radials run 12.8-12.9 '68
are the baddest in my opinion. As far as weight NADA book says '93
Camaro w/V8 is 3373 (it says my GMC is 4458 when I had it on the scales
at the land fill it was 4460 so it's pretty accurate) a '69 H/O is 3855
according to The Hurst Heritage book 500 lbs. heavier than a Z.
Aurora 4.0 has 250 hp, 62.5 hp per liter  current LT1 280hp, 49.12 hp
per liter(regular production, your '93s 250hp?)evan the Z28 SS's 310 hp
(w/optional exhaust) is only 54.38 per liter. Strike one (2) up for new
Olds!

>
> I am an Olds enthusiast through and through and will always be. I just
> repsect Chevy, as I do all other car makes..even Frod ;-) ;-) Aren't we all
> in this togehter anyway?
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (Olds442@Rocketship.com)

The LT1 and the new LS1 are awsome engines there is no doubt about that.
Chevy corrected a lot of the problems with the older small blocks.
There's nothing wrong with somebody owning one. Two cars I would like to
have some day are a '65 Impala or a early Nova. I respect Chevy's (got
to have something to make fun of), Ford no I don't think so.

Daren

------------------------------

From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:52:26 -0300
Subject: Re: 15X7 SSII's

In a message dated 97-06-16 20:23:24 EDT, you write:

<<
 Did I just miss out on a steal? I was at a swap meet and saw a set of 4
 rims on fair tires.  The inside of one of the rims
 said 15X7JJ, and the other 3 said nothing, but were on 15 inch tires...were
 these Hurst Olds wheels?

 The guy wanted $75 for the set...
  >>

What was the number thats cast in the wheel?  I have a set of those 15x7 JJ's
but they do not have the same number stamped on them as the HO wheel.. Dont
know if there is any other difference between them or not.. Hope this helps.

------------------------------

From: Daren & Laurie <daren@revealed.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:09:26 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

jones wrote:
>
> >
> > P.S. I have a 425 that cost me $1350 and according to Dick Miller and
> > Drag Strip Plus will run very low 12s in a 4100 lb. car! Somebody I work
> > with is giving me a '73 Nova which is going to get this motor instead of
> > the Dynamic so I should have no problems running 11s since this car is
> > almost 1000 lbs. lighter. Now I just got to find a Omega front end.
>
> Should and has are two different things. Wait till you get a time slip to
> prove it.

Yep!

> I will refrain from saying anything about my stupidity.

Like I said it wasn't meant to be an insult. It was meant as a joke
about mags constantly telling how to rebuild sb Chevy's. If you took it
personaly I apoligize.

> But I constantly
> see e-mails here that say I just rebuilt my Olds and it is... useing oil...
> wont start.... gets hot.... misses and so on maybe some Olds books should
> be published.

Problems like that could be solved (most of the time) be reading how to
rebuild any auto engine (gas). Yah it would be nice to have more Olds
engine books, can always learn something new.

> Oh my Bi monthly rebuild is overdue and I have a stock G.M block so I
> better get busy.

With all that rebuilding you'll definitely be a quicker rebuilder than
me.(joke haha)

> Walter

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:04:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 15X7 SSII's

At 04:21 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Did I just miss out on a steal? I was at a swap meet and saw a set of 4
>rims on fair tires.  The inside of one of the rims
>said 15X7JJ, and the other 3 said nothing, but were on 15 inch tires...were
>these Hurst Olds wheels?
>
>The guy wanted $75 for the set...

That's a good price for four 15"x7" SSIII's, but unless they were all
chrome, they weren't '69, '72 or '83-'84 H/O wheels. They might have been
from a mid-70's H/O, which came with the 15" painted rims, but these are the
same as all other SSIII's (I believe; visually they are identical).

Still, I would have bought them... (I need a pair for my SX).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:03:40 -0300
Subject: 1965 F-85 for Sale

Greetings from the Dark Side!

We have member on the Toronado List that has a very nice 1965 F-85 for sale. I
have seen this car and it is nice. All original except paint.

If anyone is inerested:

You can view the car at:  http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/memonth

There is an ad placed at: http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/other.htm where you
can his e-mail address and phone number.

See you all in Lansing!

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:04:29 -0300
Subject: (no subject)

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:19:07 -0300
Subject: Re: 15X7 SSII's

At 09:04 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:21 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>were
>>these Hurst Olds wheels?
>
>That's a good price for four 15"x7" SSIII's, but unless they were all
>chrome, they weren't '69, '72 or '83-'84 H/O wheels. They might have been
                           ^^^
Whoops! How'd that get in there... Sorry, those '72's were painted white,
not chromed, and I don't even know if they were 15" or not (I'm suspecting
they weren't, for some reason).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:27:05 -0300
Subject: Race

Here's a little puzzle for you car experts.

Picture 2 cars:

A 1993 Grand Prix  3.1 V
V6.

and

A 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88   455 v8



Based soley upon the car and the engines, and assuming
both cars are in relatively good condition, in a 1 mile race,
who would win?


- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:30:24 -0300
Subject: Re: B, O, or P 455? Which is better?

At 09:52 PM 6/16/97 -0300, Daren & Laurie wrote:

>I've seen '68 H/O that was stock (looking) on radials run 12.8-12.9 '68
>are the baddest in my opinion. As far as weight NADA book says '93
>Camaro w/V8 is 3373 (it says my GMC is 4458 when I had it on the scales
>at the land fill it was 4460 so it's pretty accurate) a '69 H/O is 3855
>according to The Hurst Heritage book 500 lbs. heavier than a Z.
>Aurora 4.0 has 250 hp, 62.5 hp per liter  current LT1 280hp, 49.12 hp
>per liter(regular production, your '93s 250hp?)evan the Z28 SS's 310 hp
>(w/optional exhaust) is only 54.38 per liter. Strike one (2) up for new
>Olds!

On a truck scale with a 1/4 tank of gas my Z weighed 3617. NADA book is
definitely off for the 4th gen f-bodies as at the track all are weighing in
at or over 3600. My buddies 69 H/O weighed in at 3497 at the track...maybe
he lightened it and didn't tell me. Current LT1's are at 285hp, my 93 was
275hp stock with the 10hp difference being dual cats on the 96+ cars. Olds
does have a better hp per liter ratio for sure. Too bad Olds took the
performance out of that Northstar design. A Northstar equipped Aurora with
300hp would give a stock f-body fits.
>

>
>The LT1 and the new LS1 are awsome engines there is no doubt about that.
>Chevy corrected a lot of the problems with the older small blocks.
>There's nothing wrong with somebody owning one. Two cars I would like to
>have some day are a '65 Impala or a early Nova. I respect Chevy's (got
>to have something to make fun of), Ford no I don't think so.

LS1 is ok, the beast it the LT4. Very underrated engine and has much more
potential than the LS1. It is amazing what some guys are running with
naturally aspirated LT1's. I know a few 93's running 10.9's with stock
bottom ends. One is a trailer queen though ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (Olds442@Rocketship.com)
93 Camaro Z/28...........http://www.kxan.com/~rwillis/labay.html
80 Olds 442 W-30........http://www.442.com./labay.htm

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:40:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

At 09:27 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Here's a little puzzle for you car experts.
>Picture 2 cars:
>
>A 1993 Grand Prix  3.1 V-6
>and
>A 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88   455 v8
>
>Based soley upon the car and the engines, and assuming
>both cars are in relatively good condition, in a 1 mile race,
>who would win?

Speaking bone-stock, and standard-equipment final-drive ratios, I'd have to
go with the Delta in the 1-mile race (uh, assuming no curves in the road;
throw in a curve and you'd bring into play braking and handling, which a '76
Delta isn't known for...).

In a short race, the GP might be a bit quicker; the 3.1 is built for low-end
performance, and those engines actually feel peppy off the line. If the
Delta has a 2.73, 2.56 or 2.41 final-drive, it would feel a bit slow off the
line, but once moving, it will really begin to gain speed.

Once you begin to hit the 75-80mph range, the Delta would begin to fly
(heck, it would _just_ be shifting into second gear!), at exactly the time
the GP started feeling out of breath. I drove a rental ('96 Lumina) with the
3.1 motor, and was impressed with it's performance off the line (I expected
it to have nothing, and it had a little something; not a _lot_, but
something); once you were on the highway, however, flooring it got some more
buzzing going on, but not a whole-lot more forward momentum. Doing the same
in a properly-tuned Delta would get that 455 to start sucking on the
secondaries, and that 4-barrel moan would carry the car to 120mph+ much
quicker than the GP would get there (if it ever would).

Now, if the Delta _did_ lose this hypothetical race for some reason, the
driver ought to challenge the GP to a rematch, but this time with four
passengers in each car; the Delta wouldn't even notice the extra weight, but
that GP would be dragging its tail like a shamed dog, and it's performance
would suffer immensely.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:56:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 15X7 SSII's

Robert Barry wrote:
>
> At 09:04 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 04:21 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>were
> >>these Hurst Olds wheels?
> >
> >That's a good price for four 15"x7" SSIII's, but unless they were all
> >chrome, they weren't '69, '72 or '83-'84 H/O wheels. They might have been
>                            ^^^
> Whoops! How'd that get in there... Sorry, those '72's were painted white,
> not chromed, and I don't even know if they were 15" or not (I'm suspecting
> they weren't, for some reason).
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
My 72 Hurst has gold wheels approximately the same color as the stripes
and the vinyl top.

Don

------------------------------

From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:04:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

> I read a review of the new Cutlass (in respect to it's ancestor, it
> really should be called a Gutlass) in the Tribune last week.  The guy
> said it was a fairly nice car but a rice-burner none the less.  I mean,
> he out and out said said it was Oldsmobiles attempt to build a Japanese
> car.  Geez.

Yeah, when will they ever get in their heads to make a new W-machine by
putting the Aurora V-8 into a Cutlass and make it RWD!  I'd do it myself if
I had the time/patience/money/parts.

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:03:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

Has anyone else noticed that the Olds 800 number _still_ has "442" in it? In
fact isn't it 1-800-442-OLDS?

I mean, given the "import buyer" target, wouldn't the subliminal message be
to remember the "old undesireable, domestic, no market exists anymore"
models?

What does this say of Olds' so-called current marketing?

Or should we take this as a glimmer of hope that there is an underground
effort at Olds? People hidden in the bowels of Lansing attempting to keep at
least something of the glorious, ignored past.

Perhaps the Shadow knows. Oh, yeah. That's another make isn't it.

Bob Handren        OCA/OCFª 7728
'67 W-30 Modified     '70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Handren Associates, Inc.
FDA Medical Device Regulatory Affairs
Laser/Optical Radiation Safety
(407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:09:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

Thanks for writing back.

I've noticed too that when my olds is getting
up to about 90 Ican just hear the motor getting warmed up...
I reember once the guy who owns the GP wanted to race me
 he passed me when we hit a straight-a-way and gave me a rude
gesture, then he took off.  I had my window rolled down, and I
could hear his motor just about wound out and ready to explode.


Here's another race scenario:

the same olds again
but this time add one of those Ch*vy cavaliers (a z24
of something, not sure of the year) with a v6 and a 2.8

a kid had one of these and it FLIES.  he smoke
the gp with it.


- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Jon" <latvis@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:56:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

- ----------
Michael R. Frederick wrote:
>
> Marketing Notes:
>
> 1) The kids who drooled over muscle cars in the 60s are called "Baby
> Boomers".
> 2) Baby Boomers are older now and have more money than today's kids.
> 3) Never use college students for your marketing surveys.

I'm not a baby boomer, I was born in '69 placing me in Generation X.

My love for Oldsmobiles and muscle cars started when I was very young; my
father had a '69 F-85.  I learned to drive a go-kart when I was about 5,
and started driving the Olds around the cottage when I was 12; I loved that
car and couldn't wait 'till I turned 16 so that I could drive it legally.
In '82 my old man bought an '81 Malibu and he kept the olds as a second
car.  In the fall of '83 my father suffered a heart attack, and couldn't
drive for a couple of months.  The Olds (and myself) was 14 year old at the
time.  (I had a year and a half to go before my 16th birthday).  Those few
months took their toll on the Olds and when we went to start her she
wouldn't start.  I went to seek the advice of a mechanic, and as he
perscribed, I changed the oil, cleaned the plugs, sprayed oil in the
cylinders and cranked the motor without plugs.  I then put the plugs back
and hooked up the wires and after a lot of back firing and shooting smoke
from the carburettor she came to life.  The next day she wouldn't start
again.  I saw the car as a potential classic, but the mechanic and my
father saw it as simply an old car, so the Olds, licence plate AAP 828 took
her last journey to that highway in the hereafter.

I eventually got the Malibu when my old man bought his '88 Bonneville, but
it was in my eyes an ugly beater.  I spent some time in Europe working as a
translator, and when I got back in '94 I started looking for a good used
car.  I would have loved to buy a '69 442 convertible, but I needed a daily
driver.  I decided that I would still buy an Olds, but a newer one; not a
Japanized pseudo American piece of crap, but a solid mid-80s Cutlass.  That
decision payed off when I hit a deer outside of Cleveland 2 years ago, but
that's a different story.

I will soon buy that '69 442 convertible, until then I'll keep cruisin' in
my '85 Cutlass Supreme which is also a very nice car (Once I get it back
from the shop, read "Chop shop blues").

Jon Gulbis
'85 Cutlass Supreme

>
> I read a review of the new Cutlass (in respect to it's ancestor, it
> really should be called a Gutlass) in the Tribune last week.  The guy
> said it was a fairly nice car but a rice-burner none the less.  I mean,
> he out and out said said it was Oldsmobiles attempt to build a Japanese
> car.  Geez.
>

------------------------------

From: DJV442@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Electical Problems

i would check the connector/connections on the back of the cluster first.if
no problems there(bad connections/solder joints),i would check around the
ignition switch assy(not the keyswitch but the actual switch on top of the
columndown towards the firewall)for poor connections.last of all,check the
ground connections at the alternator...hope this helps....djv442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Rich Inacker <rinacker@voicenet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:00:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Twin Turbo, Injected 67

Greg Pruett (grpruett@vt.edu) writes:

>D*MMIT!  Someone beat me to it and outgunned me by 105 cubic inches to boot!

I know what you mean, Greg. I had been fooling around with some ideas for
an EFI setup myself. Using two 30 lb/hr injectors per cylinder was a novel
approach, but I suppose the extra fuel is required when the turbos come up
on boost. I couldn't see whether the extra injectors were staged to come on
only under boost or not. I'm assuming they were simply wired in parallel
with the primary injectors since I don't know of any automotive EFI
controller (outside of perhaps the IRL and/or CART cars...) that would have
16 individual injector drivers to control all of the injectors. He could've
simply wired the harness to send injector pulses to both sets of injectors
and had a pressure-activated switch complete the ground to bank-in the
extra 8 injectors when the engine came up on boost. That would be pretty
slick and probably quite effective.

I'm really disappointed I didn't get a chance to talk to this fellow...

Re: picture URLs
>They all need a squigly line ~

DOH ! You're absolutely right. That's what I get for trying to type after
spending all day in the sun and 115 octane fumes. :-)

The URLs for the pictures should be:

http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker/2turbo/picX.gif  {X=1,2,3,4,5}

Sorry for any inconvenience, guys !

>Great pictures.  I'm still mad. :)

I know. I feel like I've been upstaged !  :-)

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: Rich Inacker <rinacker@voicenet.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:58:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Twin Turbo, Injected 67

Paul Pate (PaulP34167@aol.com) writes:

>How much would a system like this cost?  $3000-4000?

Easily that in parts alone, I'd guess. Not counting the engineering time
and fabrication that went into this. It was definitely _not_ thrown
together. It was pro.

I'm guessing we'll see this in a magazine at some point. Perhaps it's still
in the debugging stages.

>Why would you need 2 oxygen sensors?

>From what I saw, the twin turbos were fed independently from each bank of
cylinders, with no type of crossover on the turbine side. They both dumped
into a common plenum which fed the throttle body on the intake. Having two
oxygen sensors would allow him to keep track of the mixtures on both banks
of cylinders. During the development of the fuel map for the EFI system, it
would be beneficial to monitor mixtures on both banks and make the
appropriate adjustments.

Leaning out this monster would be a Very Bad Thing...

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:56:18 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: Clock help]

Message-ID: <33A212A5.2490@pitnet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:40:21 -0500
From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Reply-To: dr_olds@pitnet.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; U; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: Clock help
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been trying to get the clock working on my 68, but no luck.  I've
taken it apart and lubed it with wd-40.  I know there has been a lot of
discussion on this before, but I didn't pay that much attention.  I
guess I should have, because you never know when you can you use.  Does
anybody have any suggestions on what I should do?

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:04:44 -0300
Subject: Wiring Questions

I have a few questions about the dash wiring of my 68 442.  Currently,
my car buzzes when the driver's side door is opened, but the keys are
not in the ignition.  I looked and both door jab switches are supposed
to have two white wires.  The driver's side door was missing a white
wire.  I found a broken white wire and connected it up to the switch.
That fixed the driver's side door buzzing problem, until I was pulling
on some other wires and the buzzing came back.  I messed with the switch
and the wires, and could not get the buzzing to stop.  I even made a new
connection to the broken wire.  Was a dreaming when the buzzing was
"temporarily" fixed by connecting up the missing white wire.  Can
somebody explain how these doorjamb switches work?

Also, I am trying to get my light about the radio to work.  The one with
the white plate and switch.  It has a white, black and orange wire.  The
black is ground, orange for accessories and white (for the the doorjamb
switches I presume).  The orange wire has no power to it.  Should it
always have power?  The orange wire to the glovebox light always has
power.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:28:16 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Clock help]

Dan Williams wrote:
>
> Subject: Clock help
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:40:21 -0500
> From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
> To: Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>
> I've been trying to get the clock working on my 68, but no luck.  I've
> taken it apart and lubed it with wd-40.  I know there has been a lot of
> discussion on this before, but I didn't pay that much attention.  I
> guess I should have, because you never know when you can you use.  Does
> anybody have any suggestions on what I should do?
>
> -Dan


In a heartbeat.  Throw it away....just kidding.  Actually, if it were
me, and I was more concerned about the clock working instead of
originality, I would qauartz conversion that thing if it is a BORG clock
(the quartz is a smooth sweep with no ticking and no auto wind click).
It should be stamped somewhere on the clock guts.  I seen in Hemmings
where someone sells the conversion kit for around $40.  I did one in my
71 442 about 3 years ago, and its kept great time ever since.

Here in SC, there is a guy called the "tach man" who fixes/converts
clocks and tachs for rallye pacs.  He charges $59.95 and up for the
quartz conversion.  Call him at 800-327-8716.  Of course he probably
could fix yours to original specs, but I sure don't miss the ticking....

Instrument Services in Illinois also can do this.  I don't have any
pricing on their services though.  Free call anyway.  800-558-2674

Hope this helps,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:21:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Electical Problems

Well, I can't offer any help.  Sorry.  But, if you do figure out what is
wrong, please TELL ME!  My Cutlass has been like this for probably a
couple years now.  The idiot lights are doing the same thing before I
start it, and the GEN light glows dimly when the engine is running, no
matter what gear I'm in.  The charging system works fine, and the car
always starts.  One thing I have noticed with mine is that when any other
idiot light is on, the GEN light gets brighter, and as the gas gauge gets
lower, the light gets brighter.  Sounds like some kind of short to me,
but I haven't found anything yet.  I believe there's a diode or two on
the back of that instrument cluster where the lights are; maybe they've
gone bad.

Let me know what you find!


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

>Insturment lights (brake, temp., oil, etc...) no longer light up when
>I turn
>the key before starting (they used to work).
>
>Generator light glows dimly when when car is running in P, R, N - but
>when I
>shift into Drive it glows brightly.
>
>Seems to run fine - I keep checking the battery - its not losing any
>charge.
>
>Any ideas/guesses?

------------------------------

From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:21:44 -0300
Subject: engine/head id

I found an Olds engine in the junkyard today, pulled out of a car, with
no tranny or accessories attached.  It was in a pile of other engines,
and I could only make out that it ~was~ an Olds engine (dist in rear, not
going through intake, and oil fill in front), and that it was a big
block.  I couldn't see the casting number on the block, but one head was
an A.  Someone had written "good 403" on a valve cover.  I know it's not
a 403; what engine would have come stock with A heads (425 0r 455)?  Are
they desirable (worth going back for)?


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:43:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

> Now, if the Delta _did_ lose this hypothetical race for some reason, the
> driver ought to challenge the GP to a rematch, but this time with four
> passengers in each car; the Delta wouldn't even notice the extra weight,
but
> that GP would be dragging its tail like a shamed dog, and it's
performance
> would suffer immensely.
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
And where would you find 4 people brave enough to climb into that
crackerbox and race a 4000 lb Delta 88. Not this cat I want in that big
car.
Walter

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:19:41 -0300
Subject: Paint for steering column

Does anyone have some advice on painting the steering column?

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:42:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 SX

To Jim in Cleveland, (jde@ameritech.net):

Sorry, the 70 SX hardtop was a real bomb.  Piece o' junk (You could
almost see the spare without opening the trunk).  Next stop, Rocket In
Promised-land (RIP).  I love Oldsmobiles, but unless this was the last
SX in the world, there wasn't much there.  Oh, it had a 455, but used
what I thought was two quarts of oil per minute through the exhaust
(which stopped at the mufflers) and it shook real bad.  The guy thought
it was an "SS" which would automatically make it worth more.  HAH!  I
offered $400 and he said he would hold out for more.....Adios!  NOT
worth it, even for $400.

(This is a cute snicker too):  The car had one of those weird 2-jet
carbs on it, you know, the one that LOOKS like a quadrajet, but the back
two barrels don't exist?  I haven't seen one of these for a long time.
Anyway, this dude said the mechanic who sold him the carb last year said
it was a high-performance carb. (I guess it would be if it was a Ch*vy)
The sad part was, he believed it.

Oh well, still searching for that low milage W-30 owned by that little
old lady for $500.......hee hee

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:50:47 -0300
Subject: 73 Omega for sale

I just got done reading a post from someone who wants to put a 425 in a
Nova body.  It just so happens, I remember reading a car ad at work in
one of the trader papers about a fairly low milage (I think around 70K)
73 Omega for $2900.  The ad said it had a 350, and was in excellent
condition.  Not knowing too much about the Omega, I'm not sure if an SX
version was offered that year.  The ad never said it was anyway.  I
never cared too much for these cars, but if someone wants the
number......they will have to wait until Tuesday night when I get back
to work.  I left the paper there.  I will post that number if anyone is
interested.  425 in an Omega?  NOPE, make it a 455!  Could you imagine
the Oldsmobile EDGE you would have then?

Just throwin it out there.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:00:37 -0300
Subject: Re: engine/head id

At 10:21 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I found an Olds engine in the junkyard today, pulled out of a car, with
>no tranny or accessories attached.  It was in a pile of other engines,
>and I could only make out that it ~was~ an Olds engine (dist in rear, not
>going through intake, and oil fill in front), and that it was a big
>block.  I couldn't see the casting number on the block, but one head was
>an A.  Someone had written "good 403" on a valve cover.  I know it's not
>a 403; what engine would have come stock with A heads (425 0r 455)?  Are
>they desirable (worth going back for)?

Well, the fact that it has "A" heads on it (they weren't "4A" heads (or 2A,
3A, 5A or 7A , by chance? Are you sure the number wasn't covered in grease
and grime? Check the casting number to make sure) simply means that the
heads are from a '65 big-block (400 or 425). If it _was_ a 403, then you'd
see a big "403" cast in the side of the cylinder banks. Hard to miss that
one, unless the starter or motor-mounts are in the way.

Check the casting ª's, and compare with those in the FAQ. Could be a good
find; what are they asking for it?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:33:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Rocket Origins; was 455

>
> I definitely have to take issue with this. By that vague definition of
rocket > you would have to call the 305ci blocks rocket engines. [{(ugh!)}]
The 4-4-2 badges have been affixed to some real prizes too.

> If I am not hugely mistaken [known to happen {e.g. carburetor difficulties},
> anyway] the word rocket became associated with Oldsmobiles sometime in the
> late 40's/early 50's. I cannot nail down for you exactly what the original
> usage was, but I am fairly certain that I saw a 1950's Oldsmobile Rocket 88
> (do not quote me on this) at the IVOC Spring Dust-Off.
>
> Further, if the AOL shareware for web pages permitted, I would have my page
> constantly playing a Howlin' Wolf song where he goes on about how he has got
> a rocket Oldsmobile.
>
> The earliest example of an oldsmobile that I saw was a 1933 coupe (with a
> Weiand blower!) and I did not notice any kind of a rocket on it.

The story as I know it. In 1948 Oldsmobile introduced the first overhead
valve V-8. Also around this time the nation was looking to the skies for
rocket planes breaking speed records. So Oldsmobile decided to use the
symbol of the times for speed and power. The Rocket.

Danny

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:47:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

>
> At 12:40 AM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >       In past conversations, I've heard many people bring up Oldsmobile's
"Edge" > >package.  I've heard of different people who supposedly know
everything > >about them, etc.  Of course, these people have never been
introduced to me, > >it's only been "so-and-so knows ~everything~ about those
cars..."  I've > >~seen~ a few "Edge" cars, but have no information about what
that really > >means.  Anybody?????????????????

When I bought my '92 in '92 "The Edge" was the name of the warranty
package. That included an 800 ª for road side assistance 24/7. Use of a
rental car during overnight stays in the service dept. And assorted
other goodies.

Danny

------------------------------

From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:50:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Edge????  ANYBODY???

> Actually, wasn't the "Oldsmobile Edge" a service/extended warranty
> marketing gimmick about five years ago?  I seem to remember that they
> would even send out a service rep with a replacement key if you locked
> yourself out of your car.  At least, that's what the TV commercial
> promised ;o)
>
> Patrick

They do. I locked my keys in the car at a gas station in Arkansas on a
4th of july. They had someone out in less than an hour.

Danny

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bjbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:32:49 -0300
Subject: Re: I Wuz Wrong (Last installment)

>Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
>
> Well, whaddya know?  I've only been going to Hampton for 30 years or so
> m'self, and all this time I thought Hampton Beach was in Seabrook.
> I looked it up, and I was wrong.  Sorry for any confusion.

  Apology accepted. Confusion is also my middle name!!

> But I'm floored, Brad was right about something; I better call the Globe
> and let 'em headline it :)

  Oh no!! Not the Globe!! It might get printed next to somethin' about
Kathy Lee and     Gif and people might get the wrong ideer 'bout me!!

> By the way, what is 'lubstah'?  Is that how you Conniving-eticutt folks
> pronounce lobster?  'round here, it's more often sounds like 'lawb-stah'.
> Or more siuply, 'bugs'.  'Lubstah' is more like how a Kennedy might say it;
> but after all, they have a Long Island accent, NOT a New England one :)

  Hey, wait a minute. Maybe "The Lawb-stah Limo" could be a new name for
Big Red!!
  (Boy, I can't believe I have enough time to keep following this
thread!!)

> Olds Content:  I've never been one to put much stock in triskadecaphobia,
> but this last Friday the 13th sort of lived up to its name; I had the
> 'Commute From Hell' in Big Red.

  <Snip of a scary story about a road I hate to drive on.)

>Was *very* happy to get the car home unscathed.
>
> Tim Churchill

  Glad everything turned out O.K. I think the Mass Pike is some kind of
secret
  driver training road for people who have never driven before!! Watch
your A--!!


Brad  (0-0||||0-0) '68 Cutlass S Convertible
MailTo:bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:37:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Rocket Origins; was 455

At 09:33 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>The story as I know it. In 1948 Oldsmobile introduced the first overhead
>valve V-8.

Well, the first mass-produced, postwar overhead-valve V-8 (along with
Cadillac). Was Olds' earlier V-8 (and the Viking's) a flathead, or was it an
OHV unit?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:23:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

400 lbs? i always thought it was around 6K.

- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: NotDads442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:44:23 -0300
Subject: RE:Oldsmobile Edge Pkg.

Charley,

I remember seeing those packages on the 78-80 Olds Cutlass'.  I believe it
was actually a piece of stainless steel that basically covered the c-pillars
and wrapped over the top.  My memory fails me right now but I thought that
option was something along the lines of UFO.  Seriously now.... No X-files,
little green men from Mars jokes here.  I remember these cars being called
UFOs as if that was the option package name or code as in 442 or W41.

Cecil
1991 W-41

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:48:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

From: MPHeiser@aol.com

>  Being from Peoria myself and coming back to the Chicago area next month for
>a 3 yr tour in the Navy, are there any other shows coming up in late July and
>beyond??  I have a 71 Cutlass S in a barn in Princeville, about 20 miles
>north of Peoria.  Thanks...

The IVOC has a list in their newsletter.  I'll type them in when I remember
to bring a copy to work with me...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:53:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Innovations in the 30's

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>

>WOW!  If I could find one of ~those~ I could get rid of my remote control!
:)
>I've heard of other manufacturers trying that recently, too.  Except using
>electronic technology.  Never seen it implemented.  Kinda went along with
>the ~reverse phase road noise elimination~ program thing, where they took
>audio samples from inside the cab, electronically phased them 180' out, and
>played the samples through the speakers.  Supposedly it was pretty
>impressive, but highly impractical.  I'd read an article or two a few years
>ago, but never saw any production figures.

I remember seeing a similar setup in a demonstration for Motorola DSP's,
except the application was an "electronic" muffler for cars.  Pretty cool.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970  442  4-speed

------------------------------

From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:53:44 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Clock help]

At 11:56 PM 6/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Message-ID: <33A212A5.2490@pitnet.net>
>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:40:21 -0500
>From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
>Reply-To: dr_olds@pitnet.net
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; U; PPC)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>Subject: Clock help
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I've been trying to get the clock working on my 68, but no luck.  I've
>taken it apart and lubed it with wd-40.  I know there has been a lot of
>discussion on this before, but I didn't pay that much attention.  I
>guess I should have, because you never know when you can you use.  Does
>anybody have any suggestions on what I should do?
>
>-Dan


    I'm having the same problem with the clock in my '69.  I haven't tackled
it yet but I did print out the repair precedures to have when I get to it.
The procedure is in the FAQ.  If you use it and it fixes the problem, let me
know what you found.

   Glenn
   '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Jon" <latvis@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:25:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Why would you even try to make a decent car out of a new Jap Cutlass?

The last true American car was built when the last Cutlass Supreme Classi=
c
rolled off the line in 1988.

Jon Gulbis
'85 Cutlass Supreme

- ----------
> From: Suzanne Rousseau <ewok@clarkston.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense
> Date: pirmdiena, 1997. gada 16. j=FBnijs 22:04
>=20
> > I read a review of the new Cutlass (in respect to it's ancestor, it=20
> > really should be called a Gutlass) in the Tribune last week.  The guy=
=20
> > said it was a fairly nice car but a rice-burner none the less.  I mea=
n,

> > he out and out said said it was Oldsmobiles attempt to build a Japane=
se

> > car.  Geez.
>=20
> Yeah, when will they ever get in their heads to make a new W-machine by
> putting the Aurora V-8 into a Cutlass and make it RWD!  I'd do it mysel=
f
if
> I had the time/patience/money/parts.
>=20
> Paul Rousseau
> *1967 442
>=20

------------------------------

From: hhzimmerman <hhzimmerman@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:43:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Paint for steering column

uknowme wrote:
>
> Does anyone have some advice on painting the steering column?


My keychain over the years had scraped up a lot of the steering cloumn.
 I masked off the area and sprayed it with Rustoleum Satin black.  It
matched so good, I couldn't tell where I painted and where the original
paint was.  It might not work for a show car, but it's a nearly
indestructable finish.

- -greg

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:52:56 -0300
Subject: '68 H/O (was B, O, or P 455? Which is better?)

Daren & Laurie wrote:
>
> I've seen '68 H/O that was stock (looking) on radials run 12.8-12.9

Well, obviously it wasn't stock then. I have an issue of Motor Trend
from April of '92. They tested a couple. The A/C-equipped model has a
0-60 in 6.6 and a quarter in 13.97/97.3 mph. The non A/C car turned a
13.9/103 mph pass. So, I'm guessing it had some "goodies" in it. A whole
second means it's getting a little more fuel than it used to. I still
like the 69 H/O better. I guess it's just that I feel that they might
have ironed out some possible problems from '68. The color scheme is
pretty cool too. I have a friend whose dad has one. I haven't got a ride
yet, but I'm praying to.

- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft) Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: "Jon" <latvis@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:39:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

Most of these cars that you are comparing with the Delta 88 have fuel
injected turbo/super charged engines.  If the Delta 88 had a 455 with the
same setup then there's no question in my mind who would win; however,
stock, it's hard to say.

In his reply, Robert Barry wrote:

>I drove a rental ('96 Lumina) with the
>3.1 motor, and was impressed with it's performance off the line (I
expected
>it to have nothing, and it had a little something; not a _lot_, but
>something); once you were on the highway, however, flooring it got some
more
>buzzing going on, but not a whole-lot more forward momentum. Doing the
same
>in a properly-tuned Delta would get that 455 to start sucking on the
>secondaries, and that 4-barrel moan would carry the car to 120mph+ much
>quicker than the GP would get there (if it ever would).

The Lumina has the same motor, but I don't think it has the turbo charger
that the GP comes with.

I'm not taking either side in this, I just want to keep this debate fair =
so
that it doesn't turn into a glorification of Oldsmobiles without first
looking at the facts.

Jon Gulbis
'85 Cutlass Supreme

- ----------
> From: Jonathan Look <bu343@yfn.ysu.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Race
> Date: pirmdiena, 1997. gada 16. j=FBnijs 22:09
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks for writing back.
>=20
> I've noticed too that when my olds is getting
> up to about 90 Ican just hear the motor getting warmed up...
> I reember once the guy who owns the GP wanted to race me=20
>  he passed me when we hit a straight-a-way and gave me a rude
> gesture, then he took off.  I had my window rolled down, and I
> could hear his motor just about wound out and ready to explode.
>=20
>=20
> Here's another race scenario:
>=20
> the same olds again
> but this time add one of those Ch*vy cavaliers (a z24
> of something, not sure of the year) with a v6 and a 2.8
>=20
> a kid had one of these and it FLIES.  he smoke
> the gp with it.
>=20
>=20
> --
> *****************************************************************
> There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
> *There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
> *****************************************************************
>=20

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:59:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

Jonathan Look wrote:
>
> Here's a little puzzle for you car experts.
>
>         Picture 2 cars:
>
>         A 1993 Grand Prix  3.1 V
>                                 V6.
>
>                 and
>
>         A 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88   455 v8
>
>         Based soley upon the car and the engines, and assuming
> both cars are in relatively good condition, in a 1 mile race,
> who would win?

Wow. "That's a Tuffy." I would guess that the (slap me hard for saying
this please!) GP would probably win. (SMACK!!!!) Ouch. Because of it
being lighter and the 3.1 being quicker. Although, the 455 puts out some
awesome power. It's possible that the GP would take the start, but the
88 would loaf on ahead after it got some momentum. Just my 2 cents.
'Course, I'm just a kid.

- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft) Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:09:57 -0300
Subject: W-32 decal locations

Hey everyone, could someone help Karl out? Please resond to his e-mail
address below!!!

David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com  OR  http://www.en.com/users/thall

Get the zip file for local viewing from:
          ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

Karl,
Sorry, I don't know. I'm forwarding your questiton to the Olds Mail List.

- -------------
 Do you know the location of the ram air maintaince decal on a W-32?  Also
which decal goes on the air cleaner cover, ram rod 400 or 442?

   Thanks,
   Karl
   442Karl@msn.com


------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:19:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

Jon Gulbis laments:

> Why would you even try to make a decent car out of a new Jap Cutlass?

Yeah, that's the spirit!  Let's give up and not even try, eh? :) :)

Y'know, the same thing could've been said of the first generation Cutlass,
way back in.. what was it? '61, '62?  It was a tiny little car, GM's
attempt (along with the Tempest, Corvair, and Skylark) to address a growing
market for compact cars, in which the VW bug (as well as the Rambler)
were in the lead.  These cars had a lot of problems, and weren't considered
decent cars at their *initial* introduction.  They certainly didn't corner
the market art the time.

What if it were decided not to "even try to make a decent car out of the
Cutlass", as you put it, back then, hmmmm?

> The last true American car was built when the last Cutlass Supreme Classic
> rolled off the line in 1988.

And on what do you base this?  What's your definition of a 'true'
American car?  RWD with a V8?  1988 wasn't even the last year for that
for Oldsmobile.  Plus, ever hear of the Northstar engine?  IMHO it's a World
class design, and it's ALL American.  So what if the Aurora and Caddy's that
use it a FWD.  The Toro is as all American as the come, and guess what? :)

Yeah, there's a lot I don't like about what Oldsmobile -- and the rest
of GM for that matter -- currently offers, but there are a few glimmers
of hope, here and there.  Things could still turn around.  Maybe
a 2 door Aurora will come out.  Maybe Olds'll do their own take on the
F-Body, call it the 442...

Or, we can just fergit it, roll over and give up on America :)



Tim (Feeling Awfully Red, White and Bluish Today) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:25:11 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Race

Hmmm. My brother owns both of these, except the Delta has a 350, anti-spin
?.??, and 200,000 more miles on it. I'll try to talk him into lining them
up this weekend.

David Brown       Mailto:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com  OR  http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

- ------------
>         A 1993 Grand Prix  3.1 V6.
>                 and
>         A 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88   455 v8
>
>         Based soley upon the car and the engines, and assuming
> both cars are in relatively good condition, in a 1 mile race,
> who would win?

Wow. "That's a Tuffy." I would guess that the (slap me hard for saying
this please!) GP would probably win. (SMACK!!!!) Ouch. Because of it
being lighter and the 3.1 being quicker. Although, the 455 puts out some
awesome power. It's possible that the GP would take the start, but the
88 would loaf on ahead after it got some momentum. Just my 2 cents.
'Course, I'm just a kid.

------------------------------

From: Kyle Tilbe <GTE/kftilbe@gte.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:29:13 -0300
Subject: 72 Olds 442 package

Am curious to know what was included in the 72 442 package, options,
etc.

Thanks, Kyle
72 455 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:55:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Chicken Tracks and Other Nonsense

In a message dated 97-06-17 11:28:39 EDT, you write:

<<
 Jon Gulbis laments:

 > Why would you even try to make a decent car out of a new Jap Cutlass?

 Yeah, that's the spirit!  Let's give up and not even try, eh? :) :)

 Y'know, the same thing could've been said of the first generation Cutlass,
 way back in.. what was it? '61, '62?  It was a tiny little car, GM's
 attempt (along with the Tempest, Corvair, and Skylark) to address a growing
 market for compact cars, in which the VW bug (as well as the Rambler)
 were in the lead.  These cars had a lot of problems, and weren't considered
 decent cars at their *initial* introduction.  They certainly didn't corner
 the market art the time.

 What if it were decided not to "even try to make a decent car out of the
 Cutlass", as you put it, back then, hmmmm?

 > The last true American car was built when the last Cutlass Supreme Classic
 > rolled off the line in 1988.

 And on what do you base this?  What's your definition of a 'true'
 American car?  RWD with a V8?  1988 wasn't even the last year for that
 for Oldsmobile.  Plus, ever hear of the Northstar engine?  IMHO it's a World
 class design, and it's ALL American.  So what if the Aurora and Caddy's that
 use it a FWD.  The Toro is as all American as the come, and guess what? :)

 Yeah, there's a lot I don't like about what Oldsmobile -- and the rest
 of GM for that matter -- currently offers, but there are a few glimmers
 of hope, here and there.  Things could still turn around.  Maybe
 a 2 door Aurora will come out.  Maybe Olds'll do their own take on the
 F-Body, call it the 442...

 Or, we can just fergit it, roll over and give up on America :

 Tim (Feeling Awfully Red, White and Bluish Today) Churchill
 ------------- >>

GUESS THATS WHY THE WORD IS THAT OLDSMOBILE WONT BE IN
EXISTENCE FOR MUCH LONGER...PART OF THE BIG GM CHANGES
HERE INTHE NEXT FEW YEARS....IT WILL BE  A SAD ANNOUNCEMENT

------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:05:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Race

Yeah, being lighter the GP would be a tough
competition.
In the qurater mile I'd have no chance at all against him,
that's why Ichose the full mile, because that's about hoew long
I need to get up to full speed.

Sometimes if I'm on an open straight piece of road,
and a person I know tries to pass me, the minute I see him
pull out in my mirror I floor it...I always seem to lose.

Mostly because I need more room to get going.

- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:51:32 -0300
Subject: 442? Naise, Try 541!

Listen to this ad I found in today's paper:

Olds '90 Calais 442, 5 spd.,
Quad 4, 120k mi., good cond.

442 huh? Yeah right. Not traditionaly. Sacrilegious piece of junk if you
ask me! Most likley a dual exhaust AT the muffler.

- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
Ev_Corp Main Admin.
delta_v plug G/S/O Admin.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft) Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: kovalj@dave-world.net (Justin Koval)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:49:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Show This Sunday in Illinois

I am sitting here and thinking..WOW!
Out of this mailing list, over the whole wide world, there are probably 6-7
of ya who live within 2 hours me!
I would love to drive the Cutlass to the car show, but;
a) Mom would not let me(i'm only 16!)
b) she does not want me hanging around with a bunch of strangers(shows what
she knows...I know ya..theres bryceman..olds444.....LOL!)
c)Probably not to smart to drive it with a bad frame..but hey!

Anyways.....The 1972 Oldmobile supreme is up for sale!
Only thing major is a rust frame.(not as bad as it sounds!!) little body
rust..rusty trunk, everything is great!! Motor is awesome, so is
tranny....Many new parts..over 500 dollars of parts from the paddock..nmew
radiator...ect..ect...asking 3500 or best offer!!



Justin

email me and I will give you more details!

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª722
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