To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #728


oldsmobile-digest           Sunday, 22 June 1997        Volume 01 : Number 728

Hi
Re: F85 vs Cutlass
Re: Overheating 455
Re: Legal Problems
Use of 39 degree cam in 45 degree engine was engine/head ID
Concerning TH400 was 442=541?
Re: Back in The Saddle Again...
Re (spect): 442 or 541 was browbeating...
Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG
Re: Legal Problems
Re: Back in The Saddle Again...
78 Olds Cutlass for sale
Re: Legal Problems
Re: Back in The Saddle Again...
Antenna Mast
Glovebox lock
Re: Glovebox lock
Re: Back in The Saddle Again...
Re: Carb Question
Re: Ignorance For Sale
Re: Glovebox lock
Parts just came in.
Re: Back in The Saddle Again...
Re: Where are the darn things?
Junkyard Visit
PARTS FOR SALE
1970 4-4-2 W-30 Conv. blueprints
Factory Coil  (1965 era)
Re: Junkyard Visit
Date:Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:05:14 -0300
'69 H/O sighting
Re: Factory Coil  (1965 era)
Temp Gauge Blues
'68 Cutlass Trunk Lid Chrome
Re: Carb Question
Re: Junkyard Visit
Re: Cars for sale
Converters
Humor (?) was Re: Converters
Re: Factory Coil (1965 era)
66 vs. 67 Convertible chasis frames?
Re: Converters
Re: Opportunity

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bu343@yfn.ysu.edu (Jonathan Look)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:01:35 -0300
Subject: Hi

I'll be going away for the summer, so could
someone please tell me how to Unsubscribe from this place
(so my e-mail doesn't get overloaded)  and how to
subscribe again after I get back?



RSVP
-jon



- --
*****************************************************************
There's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home,
*There's no easy way out, givin' in can be wrong.        *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:31:56 -0300
Subject: Re: F85 vs Cutlass

In a message dated 97-06-20 01:33:45 EDT, you write:

> Had a 70 Charger and it would haul.  Don't you remember the two or three
other
> Faux "Chargers" Mopar had out?  I wouldn't haqve been caught dead sitting
in
> one.  They were truly tacky.
>
>  Don Sowers
>  3 Cutlass rides and a GS455
>
Sorry, I do not know about MOPAR (Mother Of Pearl Axle Rod?). I will have to
converse with my younger brother (1969 resto). I am a second generation
Oldsmobile owner (and no it is not my father's Oldsmobile). Who was just
making a point about the, yes, idiotic things the car manufacturers come up
with.

  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Everybody Gets Reamed (was Oldsmobile edge)

[OK, OK,OK. I am sorry. That was cold, and undeserved]



------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:34:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Overheating 455

- ----------
> From: SRB442@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Overheating 455
> Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 3:20 PM
>
> Hi,
>      I was thinking out loud on the running lean. I had heard running a
car
> lean on the strip would burn holes in the pistons which would be more
heat
> being generated. I could be wrong though. Also on a 65 442 there is not a
lot
> of area for the air to go through the grill. I will be talking to him
soon to
> see if he has made any headway. He really wants to drive this a little to
> cruise nites and local shows.  Steve
> 1967 442
> 1970 442
> 1973 442
> 1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

A lean mixture will run higher combustion chamber temps. If the cooling
system big enough you probably wont see it on the gauge. But if you are
already on the edge it could make the difference. It can also cause
detonation which can raise temperatures which causes more detonation which
breaks pistons, rings, cranks ect. Retarded igniton timeing will also raise
combustion chamber temps. It is especilly hard on exaust valves and seats.
A blower motor is easy to get too lean and hard to prevent detonation with.
Its kind of a balancing act to get every thing right on the sorry fuel we
have today. Too much timing or boost and its fried piston time, not enough
and you loose power. Maybe he should try underdriveing the blower for
street use and step it up if he goes to the track.
Walter

------------------------------

From: "jones" <jones@morgan.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:18:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

- ----------
> From: Timothy A. Churchill <tchurchill@draper.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Legal Problems
> Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:04 PM
>
>
> Erik Sez:
>
> < Some of the CA statutes snipped>
>
> > EXCEPT if there was no belt required by law when the car was sold.
Ergo, no
> > seatbelt was required for the center passenger when the car was sold,
> > therefore the seatbelt requirement does not apply.
>
> FWIW, the law in MA is similar; i.e., no retrofit of seatbelts is
required.
> One of my buddies has a '53 Chubby w/o belts; in fact I don't recall
seeing
> bolt holes in the floor for belt mounts when we lifted the carpet up,
though
> they might have been there.  NJ is the same, luckily for my step-dad and
> his '52 Chubby P/U.
>
> The same thing goes for turn signals.
>
> But all this only stands to reason (like *that* is a highly-prized
attribute
> in relation to motor vehicle laws)... can you all imagine if the law
> stated we had to retro-fit *air bags* in our classics???
I bet that if you do retrofit belts in a car you better have them fastned
if you are stopped. I put them in my 56 Chevy and addeded a center rear one
to the Olds so that we could put a childs car seat in properly. I think a
officer would write you ( and should ) if you have a little one
unrestrained even if you dont legaly have to have belts. You will also have
to have one if you ever go to a NHRA track.
Walter

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:56:34 -0300
Subject: Use of 39 degree cam in 45 degree engine was engine/head ID

This is particularly adressed to the MECH'ster but only slightly more than
y'all.

Yes Edelbrock has a nice performance package in the Performer. I will get
this manifold when I am able.

As I said previously, using a 39 cam in a 45 block means that the
opening/closing (depending on which bank of heads) will be advanced/retarded
by 3 degrees over what was intended for your engine. Relatively
self-explanatory.

And I am sure that the combe does run well in your 1965 425ci (or 455 if you
swap the innards) engine.

BUT, I have to agree with D. Brown. And for a very specific reason. Your
motor (unless you had this work done previously) does not have hardened valve
seats.

Valve seats (earlier type [ours]) get pitted by the hot exhaust gases of
combusted unleaded gasoline. You should be using a lead substitute. (Even the
stores whose personell do not know what this is carry it!) But even if you
are, it is possible that half of your valve seats are exposed to the final
stages of detonation! That is, the valves that close 3 degrees late!

It is possible that direct exposure to detonation does not cause more wear
than the exhaust gas, but can your pocket book risk that?

I know that I am coming due for an overbore, and I have been using lead
substitute (two not related). If it turns out that I need a valve job, I will
locate and buy a separate set of A (or maybe some really rusty C) heads so
that I have a set to work on while the other is in the car.

And if that does not convince you, think of the car as a whole. You want to
keep it for a long time don't you? Treat it as a significant other. The stock
cam may be a letdown but the intake will still flow better than stock.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Entirely Gone Rampant



------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:14:02 -0300
Subject: Concerning TH400 was 442=541?

In a message dated 97-06-19 23:47:09 EDT, you write:

> > >
>  > >Then Olds also disgraced the name in '65, and in '66, and '67, and '68
>  and
>  > '>69 and '70 and so on.  A TH-400 was available in '65 and up 442's.
>  >
>  > Just one small point;  Olds didn't offer a TH-400 on anything except
full
>  > sized cars until 1967.  442s had two-speed automatics until 1967!
>  >
>  > Elephant Engine Ernie
>  >
>

I would not be too sure about that. As per earlier enlightenment by Dr. Bob
(BTW an honorary member of T.H.O.R.!) TH400 was the _only_ automatic
transmission available during the general time period including 1965.
However, these were differentiated into different models (tag code served to
enlighten) for high compression, low compression ...at least four variants in
1965.

anyway...


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Eternal Gringing Repaired?



------------------------------

From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:02:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Back in The Saddle Again...

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:
>    So, I am buying the '69
> 4-4-2 tonight.  I leaving shortly to give him the remaining balance and to
> pick up the car.  I can't wait!  It is nearly identical to another '69 4-4-2
> that I sold nearly ten years ago.  I have regretted it every day since.  Not
> anymore though,  I'll finally be back in the saddle again :-)
>
> I have been walking on air ever since I clinched the deal.   In fact,
> Saturday night I was running around the back yard with a broom "doing the
> bull dance...feeling the flow.....feelin' it"  as Kevin Nealon said in
> "Happy Gilmore."
>
> Speaking of quotes, Ferris Bueller once said:  "Life moves pretty fast.  If
> you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
>
> Here I go!
>
> Catch You Later,
>
> Jeff Zeilmann
> SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
> '68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible (and the "NEW" '69 4-4-2)

Jeff,

Of course you are a lucky man.  Little is  more satisfying than to see
someone be thrilled over an accomplishment.  Congratulations & just
enjoy.  I probably didn't have to say that at all.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:17:33 -0300
Subject: Re (spect): 442 or 541 was browbeating...

In a message dated 97-06-20 07:42:16 EDT, you write:

> explain my point of view and explain that it is MY OPINION and that
>   everybody is now kicking my a** because I feel a certain way! IN MY
>   OPINION, THIS CAR IS NOT A 442 (or 4-4-2, however you feel like it
>   should be spelled)!!!! There!! We're done! NOW!
>
>
Have you guys been beating the "pronouncing" 4 4 2 (spaces left for proper
pronunciation ;) ) "correctly" horse to death again?

(to be read with the feeling of: "Have you been talking about the Queen
again? On the Fourth of July?)

Shame on you for tormenting recent additions to the Oldsmobile Email
Avalanche.

Although he was harsh in his estimation of a newer model, I thought that he
had a good point. It is just that we take it for granted that the newer
models pale in comparison to some of our favorites...the novelty has worn
off.

I know "you can get farther with a kind word and a gun than just a kind
word," but really folks! Keep you firearms holstered and in condition three.

I have found that the central attraction that this list has for me is the
potential edification of  others who are having problems you yourselves have
encountered.

As for myself, I personally did not browse the inventory at the dealership
lot at IVOC's spring dust-off, but neither did I harangue anyone who did.

Ooops. Well it seems the the only 442=541 messages that were new were only
incidental but still consider this a warning about the previous 4 4 2
thread......


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Embarrassed  and Going Red?



------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:15:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine Stall (P/N switch, ILC, TPS) - LONG

> imagine the '84 VIN Y is the same.  Mine idled rough (in drive and R)
> with the A/C on, so I backed the solenoid out a half-turn.  Now it works

I've noticed that these electric solenoids don't engage very forcefully.
If the plunger is adjusted too far out, the throttle needs to be opened a
bit (a light touch on the accelerator pedal) before the solenoid will lock
in position.

> too.  Did you remember to disconnect the battery to reset the computer
> after adjustment?  I forgot that step last time, and the car ran even
> worse until I remembered.

Good point!  I almost neglected to do this myself, but fortunately, did
read the procedure through to the last step where the '88 service manual
said to "clear ECM trouble code memory".  I believe earlier versions more
correctly said to disconnect the battery in order for the ECM to 'learn'
the new closed-throttle voltage.

Kevin Wong
Toronto, Ontario

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:03:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

 (Now I'm Gonna Have Nightmares About Airbags!) Why did this suddenly bring
up a remembered vision of the old convertible going down the highway with
windows up & top bubbled up - hey, isn't that an Airbag????!!!!  My buddy
used to call my car the Oldsmobubble.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '69 Toronado (arriving in August)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:07:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Back in The Saddle Again...

I don't think anything can beat that "YES" that runs through your head with
the car for sale with the right price.  CONGRATULATIONS (although we're
kinda jealous).

P.S.  Any chance your wife caught the dance on video for Lansing??


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '69 Toronado (arriving in August)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:50:29 -0300
Subject: 78 Olds Cutlass for sale

Ad running in local trader:

350, new exhaust,runs/drives good, motor trans out of 79 Olds station
wagon with 29k when installed. $600. Lex, Ky.  606 252-2997
Disclaimer-I know nothing about the car and wil make nothing off it.  I
just put the ad out in case anyone was interested.

Don Sowers

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:09:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Legal Problems

jones wrote:
>
> I think a officer would write you ( and should ) if you have a little
> one unrestrained even if you dont legaly have to have belts.

You betcha!  In Florida, every child under the age of 4 (or 35 lbs) MUST
be in a child seat -- no exceptions.  In spite of a $400 fine, I'm still
amazed at how many idiots I see zooming around with their little kid
standing on the front seat.  Geez.  Haven't they ever heard of Newton?

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:17:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Back in The Saddle Again...

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:
>
> So, I am buying the '69 4-4-2 tonight.  I leaving shortly to give him
> the remaining balance and to pick up the car.  I can't wait!  It is
> nearly identical to another '69 4-4-2 that I sold nearly ten years ago.
> I have regretted it every day since.  Not anymore though,  I'll finally
> be back in the saddle again :-)

Cool!  I know the feeling.  I sold my first 66 Toro in 1973 and bitched
about until I bought the second one in 1990.  Congrats!

(Hmmm...  That was a Friday post.  Not a word
from Jeff yet?  Must be cruzin' the new baby.)

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert Nevins" <nevinsr@voyager.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:21:32 -0300
Subject: Antenna Mast

I'm still looking for an antenna mast for a 1964 F-85 Cutlass.  I checked
with each dealer at the Oldsmobile Anniversary swap meet last weekend
without any luck.  Is there anyone out there that can help?
Robb Nevins
nevinsr@voyager.net
1964 F-85 Cutlass 2 door Sports Coupe
1985 Cutlass Supreme Brougham

------------------------------

From: uknowme <uknowme@mail.botanybay.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:22:03 -0300
Subject: Glovebox lock

Hi all
Can someone please tell me how to remove the lock from my glovebox
please please please.

Tim
81 Cutlass Supreme (under construction)
80 Mustang (Winter Beater haha Ford)
80 Camaro (1st baby In Loving Memory)

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:39:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Glovebox lock

In a message dated 97-06-21 12:27:56 EDT, you write:

> Can someone please tell me how to remove the lock from my glovebox
>  please please please.

I just did this on my 70.  I had to insert the key in the cylinder and press
in a release mechanism, located on the side of the cylinder, with a
screwdriver.  It is hard to describe without a picture.  You might want to
purchase a shop manual.  Hope this helps!

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: PaulP34167@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:44:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Back in The Saddle Again...

In a message dated 97-06-21 11:47:24 EDT, you write:

> My wife just happened to pick up a copy of the Thrifty Nickel last Thursday

>  (last week), and was looking through the auto section, when she noticed
the
>  very first car advertised was a 1969 Olds 4-4-2!  We have seen a few in
the
>  papers in the last year or so, and have kinda-sorta been looking for one,
>  but not real seriously.  She read the ad out loud to me, "1969 Olds 442,
>  real tight, all original-never restored, can be a daily driver, runs
great,
>  $4500..."  and I decided to call the number.  The guy answered, and told
me
>  a little about the car including that it had been stored for about five
>  years, and the colors were dark blue metallic with a light blue
interior!!!!
>

Great story!  I bet it took some guts to leave it there without making a
deal!
Olds fever strikes again!

Paul Pate
70 Cutlass S
84 Camaro LG4

------------------------------

From: SAdelstein@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:04:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb Question

The hesitation you are having sounds more like a trouble with the timing.  I
have a 1969 cutlass oldsmobile with a 2 barrel carbeurater and I have learned
that the timing on my car when set to specs, 6 degrees before top dead
center, makes the car not run that well and hesitate every time you press
down on the accelerator.  Since your car has the four barrel carbeurater your
timing specs should be set at eight degrees before top dead center.  I would
suggest that you set your car's timing to to eight degrees before top dead
center first.  Next get the idle speed set to 850 rpm.  Third, start to
advance the timing.  Your idle speed will increase about two to three hundred
rpm as you do this, but make sure not to adjust the idle speed.  Fourth, as
you advance the idle speed listen carefully to the engine.  When the engine
sounds as though the rpm is not increasing that dramatically then stop
advancing the timing and drive it around the block to make sure that the car
doesn't knock.  For if the timing is too far advanced it will cause the
engine to knock.  If it does go back and retard the timing just a little bit
and keep doing this until it stops knocking.  On my car I have the timing set
about fifteen to twenty degrees advanced and have noticed better pick up,
better gas mileage, better shifting, and more vacuum.  Also, the car doesnt'
seem to run as hot.  I hope this helps you with your hesitating problem.

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:13:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignorance For Sale

On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Jar Lyons wrote:

>So what the hell is a bowtie?

Ya know, I've ~often~ wonderred that myself...  Some claim that it's a car,
but I often tend to disagree :)

(seriously, it's the funny emblem thing on the front of ch*vys)

- --Charley Buehner (who ~is~ still alive, and is still having server
troubles...)

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:55:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Glovebox lock

uknowme wrote:
>
> Hi all
> Can someone please tell me how to remove the lock from my glovebox
> please please please.
>
>
Tim,

I assume this is for the 81 Cutlass.  I do believe it is the same as an
85, so here's what the 85 service manual says:

1. Open the instrument panel compartment door and rotate lock cylinder
to the locked position.

2. Insert wire in hole in edge of inst. panel compartment door above
lock cylinder.

3. Depress each tumbler in turn whie pulling on knob to remove lock
cylinder.

4. To install the lock cylinder align tumblers with top of opening and
depress tumbler as cylinder is pushed into door.


Good luck,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:44:26 -0300
Subject: Parts just came in.

                                C&M Classic Parts

        We have a list of new parts we just got in today:

66 Cutlass/442 Full Turbine Hucaps (very, very nice)  $130.00 set
66/67 Dash Pad (2 black, one excellent, one very good)  $180.00/$125.00 ea
67 LH Fender Eyebrow Molding (excellent) $35.00
67 LH Fender (Arizona part) Very nice  $350.00
67 RH Fender (small hole, straight)  $200.00
67 Cutlass Hood (Arizona part, nice)  $250.00
67 C/S Rear Bumper (very good cond)  $100.00
66/67 Repro Radio Delete Plates (perfect repro)  $40.00
66/67 Repro Heater Delete Plates  (perfect repro)  $40.00  ($78.00 set)
69-72 Floor Shift Steering Column (very good)  $100.00
69 442 Hood (rust free)  $130.00
68 Headlight Plastic Bezels (mint pair)  $250.00 pr
68/69 442 Front Fenders (need small patch)  $200.00 pr
68/69 Front Wheel well moldings (excellent)  $100.00 pr
69 442 Trunk Lid (mint)  $175.00
69 Cutlass/442 Doors (mint pair)  $300.00 pr / $160.00 ea
68/69 SSII 14x6 Wheels (2) mint  $45.00 ea
69 Cutlass/442 Front Bumper (good cond) $100.00
69 442 Rear Bumper  (good cond, some small pitts above one cutout)  $125.00
69 LH Top Fender Moldings (excellent) $35.00
69 RH Top Fender Moldings (mint)  $40.00
Bumper Bracket sets ALL years  $25.00 pr

We are considering reproducting the extremely rare 66 Tri-carb Shroud
assembly if we get 10-20 orders. It won't be cheap to do this. This is the
chrome top shroud and the black lower. It will be made of fiber glass and
plastic chrome plated. Prices will be around $550.00 ea and will look
correct but won't cost an arm and a leg. Considerations for the part will be
made by 1 Aug 97. The mold will be taken from an original shroud assembly we
have. Please Email us with the title "Shroud".

Thanks,
Jim Chermack
OCA ª24275
70 Cutlass Supreme SX W-32
72 442 (350)
86 Ninety Eight
94 Cutlass Supreme
96 C-1500
Virginia Beach, VA
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

From: DJV442@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:45:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Back in The Saddle Again...

congrats on your purchase...sounds like a good deal to me....happy motoring
djv442@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Yorcoy@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:01:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Where are the darn things?

MINES ON THE DRIVERS SIDE FENDER WELL TOWARDS THE WINDSHIELD

------------------------------

From: Olds Mobile <dmtaylor@tiac.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:13:06 -0300
Subject: Junkyard Visit

If anyone is interested, I stopped into my local yard today ans spotted
a 1976 Cutlass S. Vin ª 3G37R7MS9159. It is maroon in color with White
vinyl top. the car is in pretty vair shape (could be restored) top is
clean w/o rips. part of the chrome strap over the roof is missing. The
dash and headliner is good shape with rip in drivers seat. Has what is
supposed to be a 76 455 in it. The number on the water pump housing is
396021 F it has J heads. I was able to turn it over with the front
pulley. It has no carb, starter, or exhaust manifolds. The previous
owner had to give it up because his landlord made him move it. I spoke
briefly with him while he was there retreiving his stuff. The back
bumper is rusted but the nose is w/o dents and has very little rust. If
anyone is interested I will get a price.

------------------------------

From: Jim Fleeson <o455@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:35:39 -0300
Subject: PARTS FOR SALE

Good Day:

I Am Stripping A 1982 Cutlass Supreme For Racing And Have Alot Of
Interior And Some Exterior Parts To Get Rid Of.

Just Keeping What Is Needed To Make The Racing Class.

To Many Things To Listm, So I'll Do It This Way..
Here Is The Vin, You Can Get The Interior Color And So On
** No Engine Parts Available In Conjuction To This Vin **

Description 1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Veh. Serial No. 1G3AR47A8CM584564

Let Me Know Who Needs What
Alot Of Space Is Being Taken-Up With These Parts That I Will Never Need.
A Two Car Garage Is Full When The Frame Is In One Garage And The Body
Is In The Other..

JIM <<<<<OHIO>>>>>

------------------------------

From: "Tracey Cleeton" <tcleeton@mcmsys.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:10:20 -0300
Subject: 1970 4-4-2 W-30 Conv. blueprints

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Hey, I finally received those damn blue-prints from the Danbury Mint Co. =
 Totally complete even down to the radiator cap. I am still waiting for =
the drawings, pictures, and video they took.  Let me know if anyone is =
interested in copies of these.=20
Tracey Cleeton
tcleeton@mcmsys.com
c701412@showme.missouri.edu=20


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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT face=3D"" size=3D2><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS">Hey, I finally=20
received those damn blue-prints from the Danbury Mint Co.  Totally =
complete even=20
down to the radiator cap. I am still waiting for the drawings, pictures, =
and=20
video they took.  Let me know if anyone is interested in copies of =
these.=20
</FONT></FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2>Tracey Cleeton<BR>
<A href=3D"mailto:tcleeton@mcmsys.com">tcleeton@mcmsys.com</A><BR>
<A =
href=3D"mailto:c701412@showme.missouri.edu">c701412@showme.missouri.edu</=
A>=20
</FONT></FONT></P>

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From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:29:38 -0300
Subject: Factory Coil  (1965 era)

I am going to upgrade to a performance coil. I have actually got 80% of the
work done and just need to wire to the new coil and remove the old one.

On the factory coil, there is a small cylinder strapped to the passenger's
side. My service manual shows wiring diagrams and mentions a resistor, but
there are no illustrations of the resistor or allusions to where the resistor
is located.

So basically I need someone to say definitely if the small cylinder (kinda
looks like a condenser) is the resistor or not.

Oh, yeah. Another thing. Is there any reason why I should not switch to 10
guage stranded wire?

(I am probably going to end up getting a massive shock when finally turn the
key!)


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  (witticism)


------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:36:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard Visit

>If anyone is interested, I stopped into my local yard today ans spotted
>a 1976 Cutlass S. Vin ª 3G37R7MS9159. It is maroon in color with White
>vinyl top. the car is in pretty vair shape (could be restored) top is
>clean w/o rips. part of the chrome strap over the roof is missing. The
>dash and headliner is good shape with rip in drivers seat. Has what is
>supposed to be a 76 455 in it. The number on the water pump housing is
>396021 F it has J heads. I was able to turn it over with the front
>pulley. It has no carb, starter, or exhaust manifolds. The previous
>owner had to give it up because his landlord made him move it. I spoke
>briefly with him while he was there retreiving his stuff. The back
>bumper is rusted but the nose is w/o dents and has very little rust. If
>anyone is interested I will get a price.
>
>
Where are you located?  I may be interested in some or all of the
car....thanks!


Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: "Dan " <dsm137@gti.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:05:14 -0300
Subject: Date:Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:05:14 -0300

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From: "Suzanne Rousseau" <ewok@clarkston.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:51:52 -0300
Subject: '69 H/O sighting

As I was delivering parts today, I spotted a '69 H/0!! Wow, I've seen
pictures of one, but actually seeing one, well, all I can say that it was
very impressive!  I saw it from a distance at a car show here in town last
summer, and I'm sure it will be there again this August.  Maybe I'll get a
chance to meet the owner and BS Olds stuff with him.  Just the appearance
of the car makes it look very fast!

Paul Rousseau
*1967 442

------------------------------

From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:53:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Coil  (1965 era)

KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> So basically I need someone to say definitely if the small cylinder (kinda
> looks like a condenser) is the resistor or not.
>
> Oh, yeah. Another thing. Is there any reason why I should not switch to 10
> guage stranded wire?
>
> (I am probably going to end up getting a massive shock when finally turn the
> key!)
>
>   Karl Aune
>
>
>   (witticism)
>
Karl,

That cylinder is indeed the resistor that you have referenced to.  It
helps both your ignition & radio reception.  I don't know about
increasing the wire to 10 gauge except that you will decrease
resistance.  Unless the replacement coil people recommend this I
probably wouldn't change the wiring.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:13:20 -0300
Subject: Temp Gauge Blues

I'm having a temperature problem with my '71 442 and was hoping for
suggestions.
I have a rallye pak, and the temp gauge always read 1/4, and would go up
to 1/2 while sitting in traffic.  To help reduce the temp increase at
low speeds I installed a fan shroud and 6 blade fan (OEM) with a clutch
about a week ago.  At the same time I installed a new lower radiator
hose and filled up the system (did not flush anything).  Since that time
the temp gauge has been reading about 1/2 while driving at highway
speeds, and has even approached 3/4 (doing 70 on a cool evening), but
then dropped to about 1/2 while going through a parking lot.
Just prior to this the car seemed to have lost some of its oomph (also
lost about 2 quarts of ATF due to a cooling line leak).  I tuned it up
today, and most of it came back..  The car has a 2 row radiator  (I
know, "Get a four row") and a 180 degree thermostat.  I'm planning on
putting in a 160 degree thermostat tomorrow.  Also, a friend has an
almost new 2 row radiator out of a '70 GS that I can put in and see if
it helps (i.e. - confirm or deny that my radiator has a problem).  Also,
the fan clutch that I put on was from a boneyard, but I can't see how a
fan shroud and fan clutch would have any effect on the temp at 70mph.
BTW, does anyone have a simple way of "calibrating" the temp gauge in a
rallye pak?  I don't know that 1/4 really is 180 degrees, nor do I know
whether the difference between 1/4 and 1/2 is 5 or 25 degrees.

Thanks
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:52:06 -0300
Subject: '68 Cutlass Trunk Lid Chrome

Hi Gang,

I need the 2 small pieces to the left and right of the trunk lid chrome for
a 1968 Cutlass.  Actually, I have the right (passenger) piece, but I would
buy both.

Thanks for any help,
Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:27:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb Question

SAdelstein@aol.com wrote:
>
> The hesitation you are having sounds more like a trouble with the timing.  I
> have a 1969 cutlass oldsmobile with a 2 barrel carbeurater and I have
learned > that the timing on my car when set to specs, 6 degrees before top
dead > center, makes the car not run that well and hesitate every time you
press > down on the accelerator.  Since your car has the four barrel
carbeurater your > timing specs should be set at eight degrees before top dead
center.  I would > suggest that you set your car's timing to to eight degrees
before top dead > center first.  Next get the idle speed set to 850 rpm.
Third, start to > advance the timing.  Your idle speed will increase about two
to three hundred > rpm as you do this, but make sure not to adjust the idle
speed.  Fourth, as > you advance the idle speed listen carefully to the
engine.  When the engine > sounds as though the rpm is not increasing that
dramatically then stop > advancing the timing and drive it around the block to
make sure that the car > doesn't knock.  For if the timing is too far advanced
it will cause the > engine to knock.  If it does go back and retard the timing
just a little bit > and keep doing this until it stops knocking.  On my car I
have the timing set > about fifteen to twenty degrees advanced and have
noticed better pick up, > better gas mileage, better shifting, and more
vacuum.  Also, the car doesnt' > seem to run as hot.  I hope this helps you
with your hesitating problem.

Well another way to set the timing is with a vacumm gauge.  If I
remember correctly, adjust the timing to get maximum vacumm, then
backoff (retard) the timing to lower the vacumm 1 inch.  Seen it done,
tried it, compared it with the timing light and it was perfect.
Especially useful if the timing marks aren't right.
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:28:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard Visit

>If anyone is interested, I stopped into my local yard today ans spotted
>a 1976 Cutlass S. Vin ª 3G37R7MS9159. It is maroon in color with White
>vinyl top. the car is in pretty vair shape (could be restored) top is
>clean w/o rips. part of the chrome strap over the roof is missing. The
>dash and headliner is good shape with rip in drivers seat. Has what is
>supposed to be a 76 455 in it. The number on the water pump housing is
>396021 F it has J heads. I was able to turn it over with the front
>pulley. It has no carb, starter, or exhaust manifolds. The previous
>owner had to give it up because his landlord made him move it. I spoke
>briefly with him while he was there retreiving his stuff. The back
>bumper is rusted but the nose is w/o dents and has very little rust. If
>anyone is interested I will get a price.
>
>

BTW, just noticed the VIN translates as a '77 350 (though obviously not
still a 350 if it has J heads).....do you recall if it had vertical ('76) or
horizontal ('77) grille?  Little memory test for you....thanks for whatever
info you have!


Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

From: S/P 0666 <olds442@en.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:09:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Cars for sale

> What the? *750k* miles? That must be a typo. I don't think any car has
> ever survived THAT long. If it is only 75k, it must be great if he wants
> 10k.
>

 Hehe.. My truck has 1,400,000 miles on it :P 1400k..  Only driven by a
lil' old lady to church on Sundays.  Serously, now thats *alot* of miles
for a 1979. :)

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:11:04 -0300
Subject: Converters

Can someone describe in layman's terms the basics of the variable/switch
pitch converter on my '67 TH400?  I understand the concept, but the
practical how & when it works is a bit fuzzy.  I have one of these extra
(less converter).  Aren't these the ones they refer to with 28 or some
number of splines & less desirable then later year TH400?

So Cal Olds Club show today (too much sun, again, we were migrating around
the dealership lot huddling in shade, resembling a herd of...?!) the
dealership owner has a private collection of some VERY fine Oldsmobiles, a
very early Woody wagon (30's?) with 21,000 original miles, a '38, '39
convertible and coupe respectively with mid 20K - mid 30K original miles,
original everything, a '46 coupe (haha, it was 20 miles long) with 26,000
miles and a pretty little sky blue '50 convertible with 36,000 miles.  I
was too awed to ask how long he's had them or where he got them (trade
ins?!) and they were all cleaner then my cars.  Sigh.

Some very fine cars attended and other then not enough shade, we had alot
of fun.


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
, '69 Toronado (arriving in August)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:04:12 -0300
Subject: Humor (?) was Re: Converters

In a message dated 97-06-21 23:31:41 EDT, you write:

>
>  So Cal Olds Club show today (too much sun, again, we were migrating around
>  the dealership lot huddling in shade, resembling a herd of...?!

Well, let's see..Hmmmm

It should not be too hard to figure out.

A herd of cattle.

A flock of sheep.

 A parliament of owls.

A murder of wolves. (or is it ravens?)

A body of pathologists.

I know..... a clutch of Oldsmobilers!  ;)}

  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  (witticism)


------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:22:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Coil (1965 era)

In a message dated 97-06-21 22:26:22 EDT, you write:

> >
>  Karl,
>
>  That cylinder is indeed the resistor that you have referenced to.  It
>  helps both your ignition & radio reception.  I don't know about
>  increasing the wire to 10 gauge except that you will decrease
>  resistance.  Unless the replacement coil people recommend this I
>  probably wouldn't change the wiring.
>
>  Bill Culp
>  Decatur, Alabama
>
Not a prob. The new one comes with it's own separate resistor. Have to add
wires somewhere, the leads (harness/coil and coil/dist) are to short to use
as is (new coil already bolted to firewall and I am not gonna put more holes
in it). Another project which features lack of foresight. Anyway, I am
definitely going to replace the lead to the distributor as a junction between
two wires would be a source of resistance (although negligible). I have not
fully decided what to do about the harness' lead to the coil. I need to
consult the chassis manual and do some wire tracing. May not replace that
lead if it leads (hah! I kill me!) to the igition switch. More on this Later.

Got my new (old) fan shroud in today. It went better than I thought. My
chassis manual showed the fan guard (with rad hose supporter) and fan shroud,
but each one in a separate illustration (assembled) and both connected to the
same top bracket! So I took the guard off and put it together as
bracket-shroud-guard, with the guard nestled inside the shroud. (Yes there
was almost two inches of clearance beteen the blades and the inner edges of
the shroud.) They actually fit! I Do not know if this is the stock
configuration, but it came out of an ersatz parts car (Soylent Body Filler?)
and it looks right so...

Thanks again


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  (witticism)


------------------------------

From: dhamlett@mitec.net
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:22:55 -0300
Subject: 66 vs. 67 Convertible chasis frames?

Does anyone know what if ANY difference there is between a 1966
convertibles chasis frame and a 67's?  The reason I ask is I was told
that the only difference is bolt on vs. press in coil springs.  Is this
true?  Also, what is the difference between a 66 330 320 horse and a 310
horse aside from the pistons (compression ratio)?  Thanks in advance!

- --

- -----------------------------------------
      Dan Hamlett
      1966 Cutlass Convertible
      mailto:dhamlett@mitec.net
      http://www.mitec.net/~dhamlett
- -----------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:08:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Converters

>Can someone describe in layman's terms the basics of the variable/switch
>pitch converter on my '67 TH400?  I understand the concept, but the
>practical how & when it works is a bit fuzzy.  I have one of these extra
>(less converter).  Aren't these the ones they refer to with 28 or some
>number of splines & less desirable then later year TH400?

I posted this to the list about a year ago when a discussion on torque
multiplication started up.  Maybe this will answer your question, I hope it
makes sense.
_____________________________________________

>For those of you who wonder how a torque converter multiplies torque, here
it is.  As paraphrased from a circa 1967 petersen book called basic clutch
and transmission systems.  (Aren't we glad dad didn't throw this out all
those years mom wanted him to?)
>
>The torque converter is a fluid coupling which uses what basically amounts
to two propellers that run in transmisison fluid. They have dozens of
blades.  The impeller (propeller connected to the engine) spins and pushes
fluid against the turbine(the propeller that is connected to the input shaft
of the trans) and causes it to spin.  (So far i've said nothing that most of
us don't know allready)
>
>Using an impeller to turn a turbine is not technically a torque converter.
The actual torque multiplication is accomplised with the stator.  The blade
angle of the impeller and turbine is set for maximum efficiency. The problem
is that when the blades of the turbine are angeld for maximum efficiency the
fluid shoots back at the impeller at an angle that slows the impeller down.
The stator is a set of stationary blades mounted in a full circle between
the impeller and turbine.  The stator eliminates the retarding effect on the
impeller.  In addition, it multiplies torque by redirecting the fluid that
ricochets off the turbine back toward the turbine.  It bounces back the
fluid that gets deflected by the turbine and increases torque.  The book
gives the analagy of tieing a teacup to a roller skate and then spraying a
water hose at the teacup to push it down the sidewalk.  Some of the water
that hits the teacup is deflected back out and doesn't help to push the
roller skate. It is also pushing against the stream coming from the hose.
If you mounted some more teacups so that they catch the water getting
deflected and redirect it in the same direction as the water spraying from
you hose, the force of the redirected water combined with the stream from
the hose will hit the cup on the roller skate that much harder.  The end
result is that you've gotten torque multiplication by redirecting the water.
This is the same principle the stator works on.
>
>The torque multiplication comes into play when the impeller is spinning
faster than the turbine; under acceleration.  The motor's and impeller's
revs are up and fluid is bouncing off the slower moning turbine.  At
cruising speed when the motor is spinning just enough to keep the car moving
a constant speed, the impeller are turning at nearly the same speed.  All of
the fluid in the torque converter housing is turning at the same speed as
the impeller and turbine and the fluid is no longer deflected off of the
turbine blades.  The stator creates drag at this point because it's
basically in the way.  To overcome this problem it is mounted on a one-way
roller clutch.  When fluid is being bounced off of the turbine and into the
stator, the clutch doesn't allow the stator to turn.  But when the turbine
catches up to the impeller and is no longer bouncing fluid back, the clutch
allows the stator to turn with the rest of the spinning assembly and since
it's free-wheeling, it's not creating any drag.
>
>The switch-pitch converters actually change the pitch of the stator blades.
The blades are either at two angles, high and low.  Low angle is about
32degrees and high angle is about 51 degrees.  The low angle is used below
about 50% throttle.   Above about 50% throttle opening the stator uses the
high angle.  It allows for greater multiplication of torque by redirecting
more oil to the impeller.    The low angle allows the motor (hooked to the
impeller) to spin less rpm for each rpm spun by the turbine.  The low angle
allows for greater efficiency at cruise speeds.  The high angle engages at
idle to decrease creep, since it's ineffective at low rpm.   The blades are
actuated by a hydraulic piston that rides in the hub of the stator.  The
piston is electrically controlled.
>
>Hope this is all intelligible.
>



Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme



















>
>So Cal Olds Club show today (too much sun, again, we were migrating around
>the dealership lot huddling in shade, resembling a herd of...?!) the
>dealership owner has a private collection of some VERY fine Oldsmobiles, a
>very early Woody wagon (30's?) with 21,000 original miles, a '38, '39
>convertible and coupe respectively with mid 20K - mid 30K original miles,
>original everything, a '46 coupe (haha, it was 20 miles long) with 26,000
>miles and a pretty little sky blue '50 convertible with 36,000 miles.  I
>was too awed to ask how long he's had them or where he got them (trade
>ins?!) and they were all cleaner then my cars.  Sigh.
>
>Some very fine cars attended and other then not enough shade, we had alot
>of fun.
>
>
>Lisa Madsen
>
>Heavy Metal Forever - '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom , '72 Vista Cruiser
>, '69 Toronado (arriving in August)
>
>Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
>My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
>
>

------------------------------

From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:22:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Opportunity

Hi all (I am trying this question again),

Well I have an opportunity to purchase a 68 442 hardtop.  The car is
in "rough" condition.  It has some body damage and a little rust.
Still some good usable parts.  Front bench seat needs alot work.  It
has a/c (Hi doesn't work), front disc brakes, electric windows, sports
mirror, trumpet tips, all of its emblems, and more.  I was thinking of
buying it for spare parts for my current 442.  What does anyone think
about a price for it?  It still runs.

Thanks in advance

Chris Sparks
68 442
82 DRB

------------------------------

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