To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #715


oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 12 June 1997       Volume 01 : Number 715

Re: 73 and up parts?
Re: Remove me from this list
1964 Olds 98 Gas tank
Re: Remove me from this list
RE: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendations
Water Temp Woes
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendations
Shop Manuals
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Water Temp Woes
RE:  Johnny Lightning 10 car set
Olds His-N-Her story
Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendat
Re: Johnny Lightning 10 car set
Re: Remove me from this list
HIGH HC's
Re: HIGH HC's
Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendat
Re: Mondello Olds Nats ª2
Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum
The day that wasn't meant to be
Control arn blues
Re: Talladega
Re: Johnny Lightnings
Re: Johnny Lightning 10 car set
Top Tech Tip
Top Tech Tip
Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum
K code Oldsmobiles???
Exh Manifold for 425/455
Re: Water Temp Woes
Re: Exh Manifold for 425/455
Re: K code Oldsmobiles???
Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum
More Auto A/C repair stuff!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:43:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 and up parts?

At 01:10 AM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Why is it that every aftermarket parts catalogue that I've looked
>through (that even has Olds stuff to begin with) always stops at '72?
>Rarely do you see a parts manufacturer list "Oldsmobile-'73-77". What is
>the deal? Will they start producing parts when these cars become
>classics? (like in 98?)

Yeah, you're in an "in-between" period. Considering how many of those cars
are out there, though (the CS was the top seller through all those years),
you'd think they'd be more popular.

While the Paddock catalog lists those years as covered, they have very
little in the way of parts for those years. Of course, virtually all the
engine parts from the earlier cars will work, though Olds added EGR in '73
and the Catalytic Converter in '75. Interestingly enough, the camshaft for
the 350/auto combination stayed the same from 1968 through 1980; up to '74,
the 350/manual trans application got a hotter camshaft.

With so many cars produced, but so few in the hands of collectors, you might
have a better shot of getting ahold of NOS parts. You might want to stock up
now; the high prices of NOS parts you see now are *nothing* like what you'll
see in ten years...

There is a club dedicated to these cars: The Oldsmobile Cutlass Coupes (OCC)
Chapter of the OCA. Their homepage is located at:

http://members.aol.com/CUTLASCOUP/index.html

If you do find out sources for these cars or people who have stockpiled
parts for them (you've checked Hemmings, I assume?), share them with us
(particularly sources for good rear bumpers).

My neighbor's brother has a gorgeous blue '76 CS coupe that he ordered new;
he hasn't modified it at all, but he has kept it in excellent shape, and
with the white top, white interior and blue SSIII's it really stands out in
today's traffic. It needs some attention to the usual rust (wheelwells,
around rear window under the vinyl top, all the usual suspects), but only
has 84,000 miles on it and runs like new. The thing he needs most is a rear
bumper, which has the standard rot. Anyone with a source for these, and a
technique for preventing such rust, forward them to me so I can tell him
about it. He's not a car-guy, as such, but does appreciate and care for his
car, which is gradually becoming a classic.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:29:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Remove me from this list

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> Seriously, I am wondering if anyone can help me. There seems to be some
> percentage of folks who somehow believe when they get on here that this
> is either a newsletter or at least something other than a mail list.
> Is there a link from a web page or something that may be leaving this
> impression? I gotta think there is something misleading somewhere...

Not that I'm aware of.

However, Dave Voorhis ( mailto:dave@armchair.mb.ca ) has the Toro List's
version of majordomo configured to send a message to a new s*bscr*ber --
a warning message -- that they have been signed up and telling them what
to do if it is a suprise to them.  Try it.

Maybe you'd want to check with him as to what the modification was and
request Chebucto to install it.

    66 Toro
The /\   /\ and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Thomas Gasser" <thomasg@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:08:39 -0300
Subject: 1964 Olds 98 Gas tank

I am in the process of restoring my 1964 Olds 98.  I need a new gas
tank (or a good used one)

Any ideas of where to look

Thanks!


    *********************************************************************
    *  Thomas D. Gasser                                                 *
    *  Department of Neurosurgery                *******     *******    *
    *  University of Minnesota                    ***  *** ***  ***     *
    *  (612) 624-4427                             ***   *****   ***     *
    *  E-Mail:  THOMASG@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU        *****         *****    *
    *                                                                   *
    *********************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:50:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Remove me from this list

>On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Erik Nowacki wrote:
>> As an attorney I feel that this opportunity is too good to pass up.  I am
>> hereby offering my services to anyone who wants to get off the list.  For
>> $500 I will make sure you get removed from this list.  Hey Greg, you wanna
>> split this fee with me.......
>
>Sounds like a real deal to me. I'd encourage anyone currently thinking of
>uns*bscribing to contact Eric immediately... ;-)
>
>Seriously, I am wondering if anyone can help me. There seems to be some
>percentage of folks who somehow believe when they get on here that this is
>either a newsletter or at least something other than a mail list.  Is
>there a link from a web page or something that may be leaving this
>impression? I gotta think there is something misleading somewhere...
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I can't remember, but I will assume that the subscription still sends out a
the charter for the list with instructions on how to unsubscribe.

Maybe a more forceful introductory statement is in order. Something like,

*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
YOU HAVE SUBSCRIBED TO A HIGH VOLUME AUTOMATED EMAIL LIST.
KEEP THESE INSTRUCTIONS WHERE YOU CAN FIND THEM IF YOU WANT TO BE REMOVED.
MEMBERS OF THE LIST RESERVE THE RIGHT TO TAUNT ANYONE WHO LOSES THIS TEXT.
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************

There are quite a few people on this list. I see more problems on lists
that are technical in nature (like the firewalls list. Duh, these are
supposed to be experts in inter-networking.) I think things run very
smoothly on this list. I wouldn't sweat it...

Also consider the explosive growth of the Internet. There are soooo many
people with accounts that you are going to attract some very "special"
people...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:44:26 -0300
Subject: RE: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendations

At 08:33 AM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Year One list the complete exhaust system for $269.95 set. It includes 2"
tailpipes, 2 1/4" headpipes, mufflers. and all neccessary universal type
hangers and clamps. They are aluminized on the outside. No trumpets. There
number is 1-800-950-9503.
>
>I checked with NAPA a few months back for the trumpets, they had them in
stock. I think they should have the complete system.
>
>We have a few local muffler shops (not Midas) that say they can fit a
system to any car. Some of them do good work. You might check with them in
your area.

Well, gave NAPA a call, and they do list the pipes, mufflers and hangers,
but unfortunately do not list the trumpets(?). Oh, well, here's the rundown
on their prices:

Pipes:  Left front-     $85.63
        Right front-    $43.16
        Left rear-      $50.06
        Right rear-     $37.75
        Total-         $216.60

Misc:   Rear hangers(2)-$10.46
        Muff hangers(2)- $9.41
        Flanges(2)-      $7.96
        Total-          $27.83

Mufflers, Lifetime:
        Right-          $91.17
        Left-           $85.63
        Total-         $161.58

Mufflers, Economy:
        Both($22.99ea)  $45.98

So, without trumpets, a full NAPA exhaust would run $290.41 with economy
mufflers, or $406.01 <gasp!> with lifetime mufflers. And as others have
noted, this is probably not aluminized.

The Fusick setup is aluminized, lacks the rear hangers, but includes the
trumpets, for $299, and I can pick it up myself (no shipping charges, just
6% sales tax). Looks like that's going to be the way I go. Thanks for the
brainstorming help!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:56:42 -0300
Subject: Water Temp Woes

I have a 64 442 with a 350 motor. ( Dont Ask :( ) I installed the
Edelbrock Performer Package with the RPM Manifold and the 750 Carb
and the Performer Plus Cam..I rebuilt the motor myself with the help
of my Dad...All clearences were ok and the Heads are Olds 403..The
Block was Hot Tanked and Crack Tested the Same with the Heads the
heads have a mild port and bowl job. I am running a three row
radiator with 2 Electric fans..pushing air from the outside. My
problem is the Thermostat will open a 180 and then it will climb a
little maybe to 185 or so then in traffic it skyrises. I do not have
a shroud but I dont think that that will solve my problems..I do have
a B&M 2400 Holeshot Torque Converter as well is it possibble that the
Xtra heat from my Tranny is causing the water termp to read hot or
run hot????Please Help

Distressed in Boston

Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:29:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

At 06:56 AM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a 64 442 with a 350 motor. ( Dont Ask :( ) I installed the
>Edelbrock Performer Package with the RPM Manifold and the 750 Carb
>and the Performer Plus Cam..I rebuilt the motor myself with the help
>of my Dad...All clearences were ok and the Heads are Olds 403..The

Just wondering... What pistons did you use? The 80cc chambers of the 403
heads will really reduce the compression of a 350 (to around 6.5:1-7.0:1)
unless you use the high-compression (10.25:1) pistons, which net about 8.0:1
compression.

>I am running a three row
>radiator with 2 Electric fans..pushing air from the outside. My
>problem is the Thermostat will open a 180 and then it will climb a
>little maybe to 185 or so then in traffic it skyrises.

That fact that you overheat in traffic, but not on the highway (I'm
assuming), indicates that your radiator is sufficient in size, but that your
airflow at idle/low-speeds is insufficient. You need more fan, plain and
simple.

>I do not have
>a shroud but I dont think that that will solve my

A shroud will be a necessary part of your solution. Are you running the
stock fan, with a thermostatic clutch? Generally, that's the most efficient
fan setup; use electric fans as supplements to a thermostatic, shrouded
clutch-fan. That would be the stock setup for a 350, so until you get to the
baseline established by the Olds engineers for the efficiency of the
airflow, you'll be guessing as to what will cool down your motor sufficiently.

Of course, the problem could also be insufficient water flow; is your water
pump in good condition? Is the belt tight? Was the impeller
_firmly_attached_ to the shaft? (in one notorious case suffered by a member
on this list, he discovered that the overheating at low-speeds was caused by
the impeller freewheeling on the pump shaft!).

>problems..I do have
>a B&M 2400 Holeshot Torque Converter as well is it possibble that the
>Xtra heat from my Tranny is causing the water termp to read hot or
>run hot????Please Help

Well, that's not helping matters any. I've got the same stall converter in
my car (rebuilt 403, 3-row radiator), and thought it might be responsible
for the car running hot (205'-210') in traffic (it stayed at the thermostat
temp of 180' on the highway, not matter what the temp). I changed the
thermostatic clutch on the fan, and now, on hot days sitting in traffic, the
temp *might* rise to 190', but usually stays in the 180'-185' range.

Seriously, you need more airflow past the radiator; the electric fans are
not enough. A clutch fan with a shroud, especially when combined with the
electrics, woudl not cost more hp, and should pull more than enough air.
Also, a 7-blade Toro fan is preferrable to a stock 4-blade fan, though any 5
or 6-blade fan would also work better (common on many later air-conditioned
Oldses).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:06:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

>I have a 64 442 with a 350 motor. ( Dont Ask :( ) I installed the
>Edelbrock Performer Package with the RPM Manifold and the 750 Carb
>and the Performer Plus Cam..I rebuilt the motor myself with the help
>of my Dad...All clearences were ok and the Heads are Olds 403..
>The
>Block was Hot Tanked and Crack Tested the Same with the Heads the
>heads have a mild port and bowl job. I am running a three row
>radiator with 2 Electric fans..pushing air from the outside.
>
>
>My
>problem is the Thermostat will open a 180 and then it will climb a
>little maybe to 185 or so then in traffic it skyrises.

So it's cool on the highway but hot in traffic?  Have you checked to see
that the fans are running when the engine starts overheating?  The
thermostat that switches on the fans might be bad or maybe you have a loose
connection going to them.  If the fans aren't working then the car would
overheat in traffic but stay cool on the highway.  One of the fans
themselves could be bad.  They can spin and *look* like they're working
fine, but they might not actually be pushing enough air to cool anything.
Make sure you can feel a good breeze coming from the back of the radiator.
If not then one of the fans might be loafing.  It's possible even for new
fans to be defective.

>.I do have
>a B&M 2400 Holeshot Torque Converter as well is it possibble that the
>Xtra heat from my Tranny is causing the water termp to read hot or
>run hot????
I guess it might be possible but it's not likely.  I'm pretty sure your
tranny would be dead by now if it was running that hot.  You should install
an external tranny cooler though, you don't want your overheating engine to
cook the transmission.  Trans fluid should stay below 250 if possible.
Anything more and you risk cooking seals, depending on how long the trans
has to put up with the extra heat.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:47:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendations

Robert Barry wrote:
>
> Well, the day is finally approaching! I've got a running engine to drop in
> my SX (finally! coming intact from a '68 Toro), so I've got to get it in
> shape to accept the engine. Besides redoing the brakes (lines, cylinders,
> etc.), I've got to get the exhaust prepared.
>
> I'll be using the stock manifolds, and I'm not looking for sound beyond what
> it came with from the factory, so a stock setup would be fine for me. I'll
> have to install it myself where the car is at, so having a shop bend it up
> is out of the question. I'll be looking, then, at buying a full system, and
> have found a few places that I'd like to get your advice on.
>
> Fusick's is the top contender: $299 for a complete system, including
> mufflers and trumpets (lacking tailpipe hangers). Plus, it's in CT, where
> the car is located, so I can pick it up myself and return it if there's any
> problems.
>
> Kanter's lists them, but that would involve shipping, and I'm leery of
> shipping pipes. The same would apply to other suppliers as well.
>
> One final option is getting them over-the-counter at an auto-parts store.
> Does anyone know whether Walker or anyone else still lists the pipes and
> mufflers? I recall someone claiming that the trumpets can be had through
> NAPA, but how about the other parts? And if so, would the whole setup
> (headpipes, intermediate pipes, mufflers & hangers, tailpipes and trumpets)
> match that $299 figure from Fusick's?
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

At least you are making headway on your SX.  I haven't had time to even
clean the trash out of mine yet.  I would like to get that done and try
to find the build sheets if they are still around.  I did pull the oil
dip sticks in the Hurst and the 69 a couple days ago.  The Hurst oil was
pretty dirty as it hadn't been started in six years or so.  Something on
the ignition system went out and I didn't have time to try
troubleshooting it.  A mechanic friend of mine looked (listened?) at it
and said the coil went out.  I have another one but other things are
taking priority now.  The 69 really surprised me.  It hasn't been
started in at least 10 years, and yet the oil looked brand new.
Apparently I changed it just before I "parked" (re:  stolen and
recovered and hidden by me from thief) it.  One thing I did notice and
question the effect on the engine is, the kind person who stole it was
taking the engine out as he had he a/c unbolted and laid over, the fan
belts cut and the radiator hoses removed.  The only coolant in there is
whatever the engine retained, but it has probably evaoprated by now.  Do
you think I should replace the hoses and refill with the regular coolant
mixture or use some kind of rust inhibitor as the car will probably sit
until at least this fall?  I know this sounds like a stupid question,
but right now I just don't want the vehicle to get any worse.  I should
mention the 69 is sitting inside in my downstairs garage where the
temperature is the same as my house and is reasonaably dry barring any
more 10 rain storms in a 15 hour period.  Glad you are making progress.
Maybe I can find some parts this summer and get moving on my multiple
projects.

Don

------------------------------

From: "John C. Ramsey" <jramsey@mail.utexas.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:15:39 -0300
Subject: Shop Manuals

Hey folks,

For those of you that have been having a difficult time locating
pre-1970 Cutlass service manuals, Year One now has many of these books.
These things are LIFE SAVERS as far as money and time are concerned and
help you to do the job right.  Until very recently reprinted manuals
were only available for 1970 and up.

The cost after shipping is about 60 bucks (a little pricey, but well
worth it!)  Now I get to know where that blasted plugged off vacuum line
is supposed to go! :)

John Ramsey
'69 Cutlass 'S'

------------------------------

From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:43:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

>I have a 64 442 with a 350 motor. ( Dont Ask :( ) I installed the
>Edelbrock Performer Package with the RPM Manifold and the 750 Carb
>and the Performer Plus Cam..I rebuilt the motor myself with the help
>of my Dad...All clearences were ok and the Heads are Olds 403..The
>Block was Hot Tanked and Crack Tested the Same with the Heads the
>heads have a mild port and bowl job. I am running a three row
>radiator with 2 Electric fans..pushing air from the outside. My
>problem is the Thermostat will open a 180 and then it will climb a
>little maybe to 185 or so then in traffic it skyrises. I do not have
>a shroud but I dont think that that will solve my problems..I do have
>a B&M 2400 Holeshot Torque Converter as well is it possibble that the
>Xtra heat from my Tranny is causing the water termp to read hot or
>run hot????Please Help
>
>Distressed in Boston
>
>Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

Did you buy "pusher" or "puller" fans. They are different... I would opt
for one pusher and one puller (on the appropriate sides of the radiator).

Also, you should wire a manual override to turn the fans on when you sit in
traffic...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:38:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

Rbarry
Just wondering... What pistons did you use? The 80cc chambers of the 403
heads will really reduce the compression of a 350 (to around 6.5:1-7.0:1)
unless you use the high-compression (10.25:1) pistons, which net about 8.0:1
compression.

I have the 10.25 Pistons...


A shroud will be a necessary part of your solution. Are you running the
stock fan, with a thermostatic clutch? Generally, that's the most efficient
fan setup; use electric fans as supplements to a thermostatic, shrouded
clutch-fan. That would be the stock setup for a 350, so until you get to the
baseline established by the Olds engineers for the efficiency of the
airflow, you'll be guessing as to what will cool down your motor sufficiently.

Of course, the problem could also be insufficient water flow; is your water
pump in good condition? Is the belt tight? Was the impeller
_firmly_attached_ to the shaft? (in one notorious case suffered by a member
on this list, he discovered that the overheating at low-speeds was caused by
the impeller freewheeling on the pump shaft!).

The electric fans are not on the thermostat they are controlled by
just a T Switch I throw it on and go..They are supplying suffecient
air and I can feel the air passign throught the Radiator.

Well, that's not helping matters any. I've got the same stall converter in
my car (rebuilt 403, 3-row radiator), and thought it might be responsible
for the car running hot (205'-210') in traffic (it stayed at the thermostat
temp of 180' on the highway, not matter what the temp). I changed the
thermostatic clutch on the fan, and now, on hot days sitting in traffic, the
temp *might* rise to 190', but usually stays in the 180'-185' range.

When You say Clutch are you refering to a Clutch Fan setup..I now of
places that sell clutches that will mount to my fan but I was told
that they are a waste of money .

Seriously, you need more airflow past the radiator; the electric fans are
not enough. A clutch fan with a shroud, especially when combined with the
electrics, woudl not cost more hp, and should pull more than enough air.
Also, a 7-blade Toro fan is preferrable to a stock 4-blade fan, though any 5
or 6-blade fan would also work better (common on many later air-conditioned
Oldses).



Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

------------------------------

From: Jeff Dick <JEFFREY.A.DICK@cpmx.saic.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:13:00 -0300
Subject: RE:  Johnny Lightning 10 car set

For anyone interested:

Came across this at work in Johnson Smith's catalog of "Things You Never
Knew Existed".  No, not mine, a co-workers.

They have the Johnny Lightning" Muscle Car Collection (1996 set?)

Includes:
65 GTO, 69 Eliminator, 70 Chevelle SS, 71 Hemi Cuda, 72 Nova SS, 69 GTO
"Judge", 70 Boss 302, 70 Superbird, and of course the 69 Olds 442.

Cost $29.98, with shipping and handling will cost $35.00.  Catalog states
this set is no longer produced.  I assume these cars were $1.00 a piece last
year, are they worth $3.00 each now?

Anyone interested in ordering can contact company at 1-941-747-5566 ext 5
Catalog ª4080.

------------------------------

From: Etzel Bobby <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:01:05 -0300
Subject: Olds His-N-Her story

There is a nice story to read on the Web at:

http://www.goracing.com/nmca/news/his.html

I would copy it to this message but there may be sometype of copyright.

Kurt and Jackie would make good members on this list.


Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the.....Past

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:06:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum

>
> Chris R. Smetana wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> > I have a question about master cylinders.

> > million dollar question is....Is there a difference between non power drum
> > and non power disc disc master cylinders as they relate to a 69 Olds
> > Cutlass?  Or any other Olds out of curiosity?
> >
>
As another side note to this, (and I may be going out on a limb here,
but....)  drum brake master cylinders differ from disc master cylinders
in at least ONE way, and very important...drum MC's have a check valve
on the FRONT reservoir going to the drums to ensure that like the rear,
a residual pressure is maintained by the fluid on the wheel cylinder,
reducing the pressure build-up time to the brakes (read faster-acting).
The residual pressure is not high enough to keep the brakes engaged.
Disc brakes do not have this check valve in the front, for if there were
any residual pressure at all, the closeness of disc to pad would allow
contact all the time, eventually ruining the pad/disc.  So don't use a
drum MC in any case on a disc brake system, unless the check valve is
removed.

My 2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

>Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

Did you buy "pusher" or "puller" fans. They are different... I would opt
for one pusher and one puller (on the appropriate sides of the radiator).

Also, you should wire a manual override to turn the fans on when you sit in
traffic...


The fans are capable of doing both. It is just a matter of switching
the pitch of the fan. I have them pushing air through from the
outside of the radiator and have the stock fan pulling...Both fans
are on switches..I turn them on with the car They are not hooked up
to a T-Stat

Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

------------------------------

From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:42:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

> I have a 64 442 with a 350 motor. ( Dont Ask :( )
<snip>
> My
> problem is the Thermostat will open a 180 and then it will climb a
> little maybe to 185 or so then in traffic it skyrises. I do not have
> a shroud but I dont think that that will solve my problems..I do have
> a B&M 2400 Holeshot Torque Converter as well is it possibble that the
> Xtra heat from my Tranny is causing the water termp to read hot or
> run hot????Please Help

I, too own a car /w a 350, of a model year when the 350 didn't exist
(Don't Ask, Don't Tell).  The motor & cooling assy. have no mods at all
from stock -- for their respective years.  i.e., fan shroud in place,
stock fan clutch, etc etc.

I too run a 180 thermostat, and when I unwind the car on the highway, I'll
watch the temp creep up to 195 or so, where it typically levels off. Stop &
go traffic will accelerate this process for me, though it doesn't seem
to affect the max temp much.  I'm just providing this info for comparison.

You don't mention the kind of temp(s) your motor 'skyrises' to Rick, but if
it's not over 210 or so, I shouldn't worry too much about it.

I assume the cooling fans you have are on a thermo-switch; what's their
rating?

Here's a similar thing that has happened to me in the past, though definitely
*not* in an Olds :)

I rebuilt the engine in a Fiat Spyder I used to own... a nice winter project
(something all New Englanders need, to keep sane ;) ) in my basement.  Built
it to european specs (i.e., 'hotter' street cams, 10:1 compression, balanced
by Lindskog of Bedford MA, etc).  Come spring time, I dropped it in the car,
and with little fanfare got it fired up.  Now Fiats of the late 70s/ Early
80s had a wierd therostat -- a stand-alone unit, not a standard one in the
block, like earlier models had -- connecting like a 'T' between the top
radiator hose, the water pump, and the outlet from the block.  This was rated
around 180F.

The car also had an electric fan, with a thermo-switch that kicked on around
195 F.  Well, initiallly the car ran right around the 180 - 185 range, but
after a few days of check out around town, the temp shot up over 230 within
a few minutes of firing up.  I couldn't figure it out right away, checking all
the aforementioned parts of the cooling system... until I realized that the
overflow bottle was living up to its name, as in it started overflowing.
>From the compression stroke of each cylinder.

Re-torquing the head bolts about 15 ft-lbs over spec alleviated the problem.
One of the pathologies of raising compression from 8:1 to 10:1 I guess...

There's lots of other possible reasons for your dilemma, I just wanted to
point one possibility out, especially when you said you rebuilt the motor
yourself, perhaps recently(?)

Hope something I said helps!




Tim (Donated All His Fiat Shop Manuals to a Poor Non-Olds Owning Soul)
Churchill - ------------- '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a.
'Big Red' '89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen' '91 Mazda Protege,
a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:32:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendat

>Well, the day is finally approaching! I've got a running engine to drop in
>my SX (finally! coming intact from a '68 Toro), so I've got to get it in
>shape to accept the engine. Besides redoing the brakes (lines, cylinders,
>etc.), I've got to get the exhaust prepared.

>One final option is getting them over-the-counter at an auto-parts store.
>Does anyone know whether Walker or anyone else still lists the pipes and
>mufflers? I recall someone claiming that the trumpets can be had through
>NAPA, but how about the other parts? And if so, would the whole setup
>(headpipes, intermediate pipes, mufflers & hangers, tailpipes and trumpets)
>match that $299 figure from Fusick's?

Been there, done that recently. :-)  Actually my wife just called today to
tell me
that my pipes from Torque Tech came in today.  If only I was home instead of
LA at the moment... :-(

When I was going thru this a while back, the Napa catalog listed the entire
system still available, including tips, for the 442 and SX.  However, they
listed a seperate drivers side head pipe for "forced air applications" and
that pipe was no longer available.  The counter guy couldnt tell me why
that pipe was different.  Maybe there was a 2.5" pipe on one side only
for W-30?  Anybody know for sure?

If I was doing this over again, I'd probably just get the Napa pipes.  I'm
sure that the place I'm taking the Torque Tech pipes to is going to
butcher something....

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442 4-speed

------------------------------

From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:28:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning 10 car set

Jeff Dick wrote:
>
> They have the Johnny Lightning" Muscle Car Collection (1996 set?)
>
> Includes:
> 65 GTO, 69 Eliminator, 70 Chevelle SS, 71 Hemi Cuda, 72 Nova SS, 69 GTO
> "Judge", 70 Boss 302, 70 Superbird, and of course the 69 Olds 442.

They sell these seperate also. I bought them from Service Merchandice.
Got the 65 GTO, 69 Eliminator, 69 442, and the Superbird. It says
"Series 9" on the little token.


- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft) Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

From: Bryan Bodine <bbodine@matrix.uti.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:25:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Remove me from this list

Greg Roach wrote:
>
> I am asking that my e-mail address be removed from this list IMMEDIATELY I
will not tolerate this junk cluttering up my harddrive any longer. If you have
not taken any action by the next 24 hours I will be contacting my lawyer to
see what kind of legal action can be taken against you, so it would be in your
best interests to do so.


Greg,

I'm sorry to say, but you have to be the dumbest guy I have encountered
on here.  Why don't you try reading the directions you got when you
joined, they tell you exactly how to do it.  Also if all of this is junk
why did you join in the first place???  It is for diehard Oldsmobile
fans, and I can see that your not one.  We will all be much happier once
your off the list; rest assured!!!!!

------------------------------

From: "Gil Russell" <Russellg@dmv.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:46:15 -0300
Subject: HIGH HC's

I failed inspection here in Delaware again.  I can't seem to fix my problem
with Hydro Carbon Emissions.
I have a 1984 H/0 with 307 4bbl all stock with air. 106K miles
My repair manual says that the following are likely causes for high
readings: along with my comments

Idle air/fuel mixture too lean - Air/Fuel Mixture controlled by ECM
Defective sparkplug wire - replaced wires
Defective spark plugs - replaced plugs 6K ago (would hotter help?)
Vacuum leaks - replaced cracked or worn hoses

Canister - replaced filter

Oil Breather - replaced
PVC Valve - replaced

O2 sensor - replaced
Defective ignition - replaced cap and rotor

EGR Valve
Defective catalytic converter
Air Pump
The Items I replaced reduced the level from 660PPM to 438PPM the max
allowed is 220PPM.  The only things left are the EGR Valve, Catalytic
converter and the Air Pump. Visually the EGR Valve and Air Pump appear to
be working, how do I test the Converter?
No trouble codes are generated

All of these are rather expensive to replace on a maybe.  Any suggestions
you might have in reducing the HC's to get me through inspection would be
appreciated.

I solved the problem with help from the following web site. It provided the
missing pieces to the problem.  The previous owner had hollowed out the
catalytic converter (If I had known that I would have haggled for $200.00
off the purchase price.).  They had a friend that worked at the DMV and
ignored the emission readings. I got a after market cat for $127.00 and my
HC  is down to 11PPM it was prevously 653PPM prior to making the changes in
my prevoius message.


http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/NCVECS/research.docs/repairs_index..html
<http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/NCVECS/research.docs/repairs_index..html>

------------------------------

From: Frank <PLPAUDIO@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:11:06 -0300
Subject: Re: HIGH HC's

> I solved the problem with help from the following web site. It provided the
> missing pieces to the problem.  The previous owner had hollowed out the
> catalytic converter (If I had known that I would have haggled for $200.00
> off the purchase price.).  They had a friend that worked at the DMV and
> ignored the emission readings. I got a after market cat for $127.00 and my
> HC  is down to 11PPM it was prevously 653PPM prior to making the changes in
> my prevoius message.
>
>
> http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/NCVECS/research.docs/repairs_index..html
> <http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/NCVECS/research.docs/repairs_index..html>


Gil,
while the cat solved your problem properly tuned your car should have
passed
without it.Just my .02c
Frank

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:03:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Source for '70 442/SX dual-exhaust? Req. for recommendat

At 04:32 PM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>>match that $299 figure from Fusick's?
>
>Been there, done that recently. :-)  Actually my wife just called today to
>tell me
>that my pipes from Torque Tech came in today.  If only I was home instead of
>LA at the moment... :-(
[snip]
>If I was doing this over again, I'd probably just get the Napa pipes.  I'm
>sure that the place I'm taking the Torque Tech pipes to is going to
>butcher something....

I considered the Torque Tech tubes, but that would be almost $300 just for
the pipes (even the 2.5" ones), not including the mufflers, etc. For a
stock-exhaust manifold, basically stock 455, it's probably not worth the
extra $$$ for me. When I build up a 455, and go with the Hookers, I'll
upgrade to the 3" pipes.

Right now, I'd just like to get the thing running!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: J2RKT@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:07:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello Olds Nats ª2

   Wish i could go to the Mondello nats but im stuck in Southern Cali without
a trailer and 4.33:1 gears.

                            J2RKT@aol.com

------------------------------

From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:32:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum

>drum MC's have a check valve
>on the FRONT reservoir going to the drums to ensure that like the
>rear,
>a residual pressure is maintained by the fluid on the wheel cylinder,
>reducing the pressure build-up time to the brakes (read
>faster-acting).
>The residual pressure is not high enough to keep the brakes engaged.

Correct.  The reason for the check valve is to maintain about 7 psi in
the brake system to keep the cup seals in the wheel cylinders sealed.
They require a small amount of pressure to maintain contact with the
cylinder wall of the wheel cylinders.  You should not use a drum MC for
disc brakes, or vice versa.


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com


------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:31:58 -0300
Subject: The day that wasn't meant to be

Yesterday just wasn't meant to be for me.  It started Sunday, the wife
and I took the kids for a bike ride on the C&O Canal.  When we got home
I had a message from my boss that there was an accident at the plant.  I
call him and find out it was an electrical explosion and small fire.  I
have to call my people and tell them not to come in Monday.  I show up
Monday and there is no power (or coffee :o), we do some cleanup and get
to leave early.
When I get home Monday night, there is a message on the machine from the
local Olds dealer that my fan shroud is in.  Also, there is a message
from my boss that I don't have to come in Tuesday.  Hey, this is great,
I can get the shroud and put it on!
Wrong!  This is where things get worse.  As it turns out, the plate that
holds the top of the radiator and shroud doesn't have the mounting holes
for the shroud.  OK, I could drill them, but realize the radiator is
tilted because this is the wrong top plate.  I know I saw one on a '71
Vista Cruiser at a local yard, so off I go.  I pickup the plate, a 6
blade fan with clutch (I have a 4 blade with no clutch) and I also find
the curved trunk lid molding (which I don't have).
I get home, let the engine cool, pop the hood and....ATF everywhere.  It
appears that a previous owner had a crack in a trans cooler line and
soldered it.  So, when I moved the radiator about an inch, it cracked
open the solder joint.  I get a 3 foot section of pipe and fix the leak
and still don't have my fan shroud on.  To top it off, because we lost
almost 4 days production, I'll be working Saturday and Sunday this
weekend and probably next weekend as well.  So it will be at least 2
weeks until I can put it on.
Oh yeah, the trunk lid molding isn't long enough.  Apparently I took it
off of a Cutlass Supreme (didn't notice when I grabbed it - I was in
shock that I found it).  Anyone want to trade?
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:32:02 -0300
Subject: Control arn blues

I made a scary discovery today while working on the Cutlass.  I was under
the front of the car, changing the broken motor mounts (dang torque!) and
greasing the front end, and found that the lower left control arm is
cracked on the outer part of the radius around the ball joint.  I'm sure
this must have happened when I got smacked in the left fender a while
back; probably started as a very small crack and has enlarged over time.
Anyway, I will be junkyarding this weekend to look for one (unless
someone here has one for real cheap and in a hurry).  I was wondering if
I could get one from any 68-72 (or 64-72?) A-body I might happen to find?
 Are there any other GM cars with one that would fit?  I'm really
uncomfortable driving the car now...

One other thing; it appears as if I am in need of a center link for the
Cutlass.  If anybody has a new or good used one they want to get rid of,
please let me know.

Thanks!


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:04:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Talladega

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bill Culp,
>
>     I made it to the Talladga show Sat, it was well worth the trip.
> There were not many Oldsmobiles, but just to go in the Motorsports Museum
> was worth the trip. A lot of neat Hemi race cars.
>
> I took my 71 442 ragtop and never thought I would find a nice 71 Ram Air
hood > for $250 in the swap meet.  I bought it before I thought about how I
was > going to get it home.  Believe it or not I bought some straps from a
vendor > and I strapped that baby facing backwards on my trunklid.  I got a
lot > of looks from yall Alabama boys.  They never saw a Ram Air on front and >
back of car before.  Scratched the heª$ out of my paint, but it needed >
painting anyway. > > Mike > 66 442 > 69 H/0 > 70 W30 > 71 442 Convt (front
and rear ram air)

Mike,

Congratulations.  A ram air hood in usable shape for $250 sounds like a
typical cheap AL deal.  We don't even rip off foreigners.  Southern
hospitality, you know.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Albama

PS.  Is it any faster backing up than it was?

------------------------------

From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:49:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightnings

dayc wrote:
>
> I haven't seen it yet either(CA resident), although I got a nifty Olds
> "Pro-Street" one from the Hotrod mag series.  It however is a crossbreed.
> The taillights are '69 but the grill is '70.

Hate to tell you, but I have a couple of these (in different colors),
and the taillights are correct for '69.  The grill however, should be
blacked out.


- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:28:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning 10 car set

> > Includes:
> > 65 GTO, 69 Eliminator, 70 Chevelle SS, 71 Hemi Cuda, 72 Nova SS, 69 GTO
> > "Judge", 70 Boss 302, 70 Superbird, and of course the 69 Olds 442.
>
> They sell these seperate also. I bought them from Service Merchandice.
> Got the 65 GTO, 69 Eliminator, 69 442, and the Superbird. It says
> "Series 9" on the little token.
>
>
But in the 10 car set only, for some reason, has the "442" painted white
with gold stripes.....hmmmmmmm......I haven't seen the blister packs
with this color scheme.  Maybe they only made a little over 900 of them
this color??...*snicker*....   My wife picked up a couple of sets for me
at Wal-Mart (I didn't even know they existed) while she was shopping for
nephew's Christmas presents.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:44:04 -0300
Subject: Top Tech Tip

Boyz under the hood-

Or in this case, under the top-

You may remember, ten daze or 2 weeks ago I posted a tech tip about using
waterless hand cleaner to clean a convertible top... I had tried it on a
section and it worked well.

Did the whole top today and worked excellently... car is my '70 Cutlass
Supreme conv with a white top which is about 2 1/2 years old.  Car is stored
outside but covered, and there were dark areas outlining the bows, and on
edges, I guess from dirt sifting thru the Technalon cover and maybe from
chapping.  Anyway, had tried one panel a couple weeks ago, smeared the stuff
on, scrubbed with a brush and rinsed.  Looked good, but noticed a few daze
later that just rinsing with water din't take off all the residudue, which
attracted some dirt, so decided to try the following:

Today, slathered on the stuff (use regular white waterless hand cleaner,
nothing with pumice or any other stuff in it, guys!) by hand, figuring that
by the time I got it all covered, it woulda set long enuf on the part where I
started.  Went over whole top with a brush, then rinsed, then washed top with
laundry detergent in a bucket of water ( I used Flab 'cuz that's what I
had!).  Looks _like new_! Only downside of course is that detergent stripped
the wax off the paint, but that was OK, 'cause car hadn't really been waxed
yet this season so I hafta do that anyway.  Anyway, highly recommended!

Good luck!

Please address any comments/whatever to me directly as I'm not on the list
(too much traffic for my mailbox to handle!).

Seeyas in Lansing-

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

------------------------------

From: dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org (Douglas Kitchener)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:47:40 -0300
Subject: Top Tech Tip

This is a resend, @ª$%^&*! phone line dropped out just as I sent this; if it's
a duplicate, sorry for the double-post!

D


Boyz under the hood-

Or in this case, under the top-

You may remember, ten daze or 2 weeks ago I posted a tech tip about using
waterless hand cleaner to clean a convertible top... I had tried it on a
section and it worked well.

Did the whole top today and worked excellently... car is my '70 Cutlass
Supreme conv with a white top which is about 2 1/2 years old.  Car is stored
outside but covered, and there were dark areas outlining the bows, and on
edges, I guess from dirt sifting thru the Technalon cover and maybe from
chapping.  Anyway, had tried one panel a couple weeks ago, smeared the stuff
on, scrubbed with a brush and rinsed.  Looked good, but noticed a few daze
later that just rinsing with water din't take off all the residudue, which
attracted some dirt, so decided to try the following:

Today, slathered on the stuff (use regular white waterless hand cleaner,
nothing with pumice or any other stuff in it, guys!) by hand, figuring that
by the time I got it all covered, it woulda set long enuf on the part where I
started.  Went over whole top with a brush, then rinsed, then washed top with
laundry detergent in a bucket of water ( I used Flab 'cuz that's what I
had!).  Looks _like new_! Only downside of course is that detergent stripped
the wax off the paint, but that was OK, 'cause car hadn't really been waxed
yet this season so I hafta do that anyway.  Anyway, highly recommended!

Good luck!

Please address any comments/whatever to me directly as I'm not on the list
(too much traffic for my mailbox to handle!).

Seeyas in Lansing-

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:50:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum

In a message dated 97-06-11 11:37:27 EDT, you write:

>   So the
>  > million dollar question is....Is there a difference between non power
drum
>  > and non power disc disc master cylinders as they relate to a 69 Olds
>  > Cutlass?  Or any other Olds out of curiosity?
>  >
>
>
>  --- Thet are different for power drums and power discs, so I would think
>  they would be different for manual also.
>

Over this past weekend I noted that for the 1965 Dynamic 88 (sorry, I have
not the experience to extend this analogy to other years or models) the
master cylinders for power steering are _different_ than the master cylinders
for manual brakes. OTOH these were junked cars so the one I did see with
manual brakes may well have been reverted from power to manual and a
different M/C used.

Still ambiguous. Sorry.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Epinephrined and Growing Restless?



------------------------------

From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:54:31 -0300
Subject: K code Oldsmobiles???

This past Saturday while attending a cruise in, I was talking to a young
man about Oldsmobiles.  I was telling him that I had always wanted a
Rallye 350 and a Sebring Yellow W-30 to go with my Sebring Yellow 4-4-2.
A full set in one color.  I told him about a W-30 that I had passed up a
few years ago when the owner wanted a couple hundred more than I was
willing to pay. (I won't make that mistake again!)  The car was
originaly Sebring Yellow with a light blue interior and heavily
optioned.  This guy tells me that his dad had one that had been
repainted red (still with the blue interior) and it was called a K code
car that was very rare.  He then mentioned a 7 blade fan that bolts
direct to the water pump like a four blade.  I showed him my fan which
came off of that W-30 (the ignorant owner gave me a couple of boxes of
parts off the car because he wasn't going to use them when he put it
back together)and he said something about it being rare and expensive.
Does any of this make sound resonable or was this guy full of it?

Dave (wondering if this will cause a week long thread) Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:01:03 -0300
Subject: Exh Manifold for 425/455

Brief question; will the exhaust manifolds from a (and I stress) junked
Toronado fit on my 425ci block?

Yes, it is a dual exhaust Toro.

No. I will not tell you where it is (yet).


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  (witticism)

 Exceptional Graphical Rendering?

------------------------------

From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:21:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Water Temp Woes

In a message dated 97-06-11 13:06:37 EDT, you write:

>
>  Also, a 7-blade Toro fan is preferrable to a stock 4-blade fan, though any
5
>  or 6-blade fan would also work better (common on many later
air-conditioned
>  Oldses).
>  _______________________________________________________
>

Thanks for the tip!

As for the original question, there was something about electric fans "
pushing air from the outside"....

At this moment I am confused. Not by the question. I want to say that my fan
blows air out from the inside, although I know that that is not a very
efficient way of doing things.

But please tell me that if your "stock" fan blew out, that you have removed
it, or placed it upside down on the shaft so it sucks in from the inside (if
it did blow out). If your stock fon is in place and does blow out, then that
is the root of the problem as there would be an area of no air movement
exactly where the radiator is!

Anyway, if I am dead wrong please send hate mail to KarlAunan@aol.com.

And Greg, no Oldsmail link from my site. Anyone I tell about it gets standard
caveats from me.


  Karl Aune
  1965 Dynamic 88
  Chicago, IL
 Member, OCA

  http://members.aol.com/KarlAunan/index.html

  Eternally Getting Rebuked?



------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:19:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Exh Manifold for 425/455

At 11:01 PM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Brief question; will the exhaust manifolds from a (and I stress) junked
>Toronado fit on my 425ci block?

It will fit on the heads, not the block... ;)

Yes, it will fit on your engine, but they won't fit in your car; the
driver's side manifold will exit right into your brake master cylinder, and
the angle of the passenger side manifold is down and back at about 45',
compared to the straight-down of most other manifolds, so you might have
firewall clearance problems on that side.

>Yes, it is a dual exhaust Toro.

They all were (from '66-'70), at least back to the single transverse
muffler. That had either one or two outlets, making it appear to be a dual
or single-exhaust car.

>No. I will not tell you where it is (yet).

Aw, c'mon, Puleeeze? I've already got a spare set of '66 Toro manifolds, so
I won't snatch them off of there...

BTW, those Toro heads would do well on your 425, Karl...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:25:45 -0300
Subject: Re: K code Oldsmobiles???

At 02:54 PM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>This past Saturday while attending a cruise in, I was talking to a young
>man about Oldsmobiles.  I was telling him that I had always wanted a
[snip]
>optioned.  This guy tells me that his dad had one that had been
>repainted red (still with the blue interior) and it was called a K code
>car that was very rare.  He then mentioned a 7 blade fan that bolts
>direct to the water pump like a four blade.  I showed him my fan which
[snip]
>Does any of this make sound resonable or was this guy full of it?

Hmmm, usually F*rds are referred to as "[something] code" cars. Maybe he was
thinking of his dad's Hi-Po '66 Mustang GT convertible?

I'd love to hear, though, if Oldses were referred to as "K code" for some
reason.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <RBarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:25:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Master Cylinders - disc vs drum

At 10:50 PM 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Over this past weekend I noted that for the 1965 Dynamic 88 (sorry, I have
>not the experience to extend this analogy to other years or models) the
>master cylinders for power steering are _different_ than the master cylinders
>for manual brakes.         ^^^^^^^^
            ^^^^^^

I hope so! I tried using my power steering cylinder on my manual-braked
Toro, and it just didn't seem to work out right...

;) [sorry, it's a slow day on this list...]

>OTOH these were junked cars so the one I did see with
>manual brakes may well have been reverted from power to manual and a
>different M/C used.
>
>Still ambiguous. Sorry.

Parts sources list four different types of master cylinders:

Power Front disc
Manual Front disc
Power Front drum
Manual Front drum

On all counts, I think you can say that you'd have some braking ability if
you used the incorrect master cylinder, but you'd have optimal braking
ability if you use the correct one for your application.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

From: Dennis Sytsma <dsytsma@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:31:17 -0300
Subject: More Auto A/C repair stuff!

Hello Oldsmoblie friends;

If you want to reply to this message please send your reply to

sytsma@gzinc.com

Also please read my signature at the end of this message.

As I said before in my prior posts, My 1977 olds Vista Crusier wagon had
A/C problems.  I replaced the hoses, and tried to have system refilled
with R-12, but everyone wanted to rip me off instead.  I converted it
with a R134a convert kit for do it yourselfers.  I got all kinds of mail
telling me to remove the compresser and remove the old R-12 Minerial oil
since the R-134a NEP oil does not mix with R-12 Mineral oil.  The do it
yourself kit said removing the old oil was not required due to special
fomulation.  Members of the olds list sent me warnings not to do this or
risk compresser failure.

The system was working well with the convert kit.  Then I threw the A/C
belt and it took the other belts with it at 1 am !  I replaced one belt
to get home with.  I replaced all 3 belts and had the A/C system checked,
My brother said the system was slightly overcharged, and adjusted the
charge.  Everthing was well for about a 1/2 hour, then the system failed
to cool.  I found the fuse in the compresser was open, cause unknown.
With this fuse that is located in the rear of the A-6 compressor, the
clutch would not engadge.  I unpluged the electrical connector to the A/c
for the time being.  Then I heard noise from the clutch bearing. The
bearing was bad.

My brother lent me a A/C comprsser repair kit made by Robinair to remove
the compresser clutch.  I got the clutch plate off with the help of my
1964 chevy service manual for the same compressor.  I could not remove
the compressor pully.  The book said I needed a "pully puller" made by
kent moore tools.  I found the kent Moore part number for this tool had
not changed in 30 years.  They wanted $95.00 for it.  I checked with my
brother, and he said he busted the pully puller in the robinair kit years
ago.  He said if you tap it with a wood block the pully will slide
forward enough to gently pry it off with screwdrivers.  A co-worker said
he tried this and messed up the shaft on the A/C compressor, and had to
replace the compressor.  Norman tools in Miami said the Robinair pully
puller was $64.00

Today I took the car to a local shop to get the pully removed.  The
mechanic pointed out that I missed a C Clip on the pully, he said to
remove the clip and tap on the pully with a block of wood.  I tried it
and off the pully came off just as they said!

I took the clutch to buy a replacment.  I found the Compressor Clutch
bearing cost $25.00 for the bearing plus machine shop charge to press it
out.  A replacment Clutch without coil was $60.00  A replacment
compressor ready for R134a or R12 with a 1 year garentee was $80.00.  I
had worked real hard to remove the old fuse from the compressor and
pinched my finger real bad. I found out at the parts store that the fuse
is held in with a C clip!  The parts man asked me the color of the old
fuse, I told him it was white,  The other fuse is pink. Not sure what
fuse is right for R134a, but I got the white fuse.

I will replace the compressor soon, and rechange the system with R134 a.
Any suggestions about what fuse to install, or what kind of oil charge to
use for R134a, let me know.  Not sure why the old fuse popped.  I guess
the heat and virbration from the bad clutch bearing may have caused it.

Let me have your recommendations.

Thanks Dennis


Dennis Jon Sytsma

Homestead, Florida

dsytsma@dc.seflin.org    (this mailbox, text only)

I survived Hurricane Andrew! Ask me about it!

visit my new internet homepage and give me your comments or ideas

http://home.gzinc.com/sytsma/

my full internet account is:   sytsma@gzinc.com

please send large files to sytsma@gzinc.com or cc/forward a copy to
sytsma@gzinc.com to insure I get your message.

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª715
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