
oldsmobile-digest       Sunday, October 12 1997       Volume 01 : Number 899



Don Sowers
Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]
Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]
Re: try again
Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!
Re: misc stuffs
Re: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re: misc stuffs
UNBOUNCE: Build Sheets, etc.
Re: # of list members
Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]
Electrical Help Please
Re: speaker ohm question?
<snip>
Re: manuals
Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket
Re: Electrical Help Please
VIN Number
possible problems?
Re: Handren's and Gillespie's Cars
Re: speaker ohm question?
Re: The list people and their cars
More build sheet info (Was: Build Sheet Help)
MCC Suspicions
Re: 73 442
Re: possible problems?
Re: 73 442
Lost the heater specs
Re: Valve Lash and a Math Question
Re: curving the distribitor?
Re: # of list members
Re: help
Saturday Stuff
Tranny Troubles
Re: Saturday Stuff
Re: Saturday Stuff
Sway Bars
Re: Sway Bars
Dual-Snorkel Air Cleaner
69 H/O engine
Re[4]: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!
Re[4]: Convertible rear interior panels 
VIN Locations (was: original frame?)
Re: <snip>
Date:	Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:57:05 -0000
Re: 69 H/O engine
RE: Bob Handren's Olds on MCC page
dist'r speed
Re: 69 H/O engine
Re: Sway Bars
Re: VIN Number
Re: Sway Bars
Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:30:34 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Don Sowers

Please send last message again.....please!!!!
Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:05:40 -0400
From: Dave Heilala <dheilala@wwnet.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]

David, Terri and Rob wrote:
> 
> Robert Barry wrote:
> >
> > >...now...where can I locate some 68 to 72
> > >convertible rear door panels.....hmmmmmmmm.....Hoagie
> >
> > If you're talking about the interior vinyl panels, I believe these are
> > available reproduction from some of the larger suppliers, i.e. Year One,
> > Fusick, Paddock, etc. I'm imagining that they're likely made by the same
> > company, but sold through these different outlets, as the applications
> > listed by each company are virtually identical.
> >
> > Anyone have any experience with the quality of these panels? I'll be
> > redoing the entire interior of my SX (probably in black, though I'm open to
> > suggestions), and will be purchasing new surface vinyl all around.
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> > Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
> 
> Bob,
>         I have 2k worth of year One interior pieces sitting in my
> bedroom closet ready to go in this car....1 Problem...I need the STEEL
> inner pieces that come on an old set of door panels to fit these..I
> threw away the old 1's because I read in Parts USA catalog where they
> came COMPLETELY assembled....well...being the sap that I am...I threw
> the old rear door panels away...now I need the steel inner peices to put
> these together....so...any help in this matter would be GREATLY
> appreciated!!!....Hoagie
One of my friends here has a set from a 69 convertible.His name is Gary
Rubrich and can be reached in the daytime @ 810-497-4107. I'll cc him
here, but he can only receive Email, not send.
Dave Heilala-OCA 10333
65 442 Conv
66 442 HT
68 Ramrod
79 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:03:05 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]

 Bob,

I purchased some for my 1970 Buick GS from Tamraz's i Plainfield, IL that
are excellent & the price was as good as anyone's.  It is also my opiniion
that only a couple of companies are actually producing these.  Get the best
price as they are all the same.  I will be getting some for my 1968 442 this
winter.  The rear panels for a hardtop will fit on a convertible w/some
trimming if you find good used ones.  It is the armrest covers that are
different.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

]



>>...now...where can I locate some 68 to 72
>>convertible rear door panels.....hmmmmmmmm.....Hoagie
>
>If you're talking about the interior vinyl panels, I believe these are
>available reproduction from some of the larger suppliers, i.e. Year One,
>Fusick, Paddock, etc. I'm imagining that they're likely made by the same
>company, but sold through these different outlets, as the applications
>listed by each company are virtually identical.
>
>Anyone have any experience with the quality of these panels? I'll be
>redoing the entire interior of my SX (probably in black, though I'm open to
>suggestions), and will be purchasing new surface vinyl all around.
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:11:59 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: try again

 Steven,

The coupes have a "C" channel frame w/the open side pointing to the
driveshaft.  a convertible frame will have a flat piece of metal to box in
this opening starting about where the front of the door starts & on back to
the end of the rear quarter window.  I don't see why a coupe frame couldn't
be welded to get the same effect.

I don't know where the numbering is  placed.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>Thanks for your response, can you be more specific to where the extra
>metal is welded and is the frame number on the inside of frame,
>underside or outside?  I looked and didn't see a thing, though I know
>how hard it is to find these things until you see it the first time.
>
>Steven
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:22:19 -0700
From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:
> 
> At 09:30 PM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Will someone tell me if this will work...
> >I have a 70 442 with the 12 bolt cover.  Inside (supposedly) is a 10
> >bolt with a 8.5" ring gear and has 28 spline axles.
> >Can I replace my open rear end with a "late model" aftermarket posi unit
> >with the same spec's, or am I missing something?
> >Thanks!
> >Brad
> >70 442
> >
> 
> Brad
> 
>         NO! Your stuck with parts only from that series rear end. Meaning
> "O" type with a twelve bolt cover and 10 bolt ring gear.
> 
> Jim Chermack


	What would make the unit not fit if dimentions (ring gear, spline #,
etc) are the same?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:15:13 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

 




>To quote Rodney King:
>
>"Can't we all just get along"
>
>Chris Sparsk
>
And this from a drunk who can't spell his own name!

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:18:00 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels 

 General,

I fully understand a 442 clone from a Cutlass.  What did you use to clone
the Delorean?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama



> Rocketeers,
> I recently replaced interiors in my 67' 442 (clone) and my
> brothers 71' Delorean (clone). Anyone with questions can EMAIL
> me direct.
>
>
> The General
>
> PS  this is my method list conservation.....
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:59:24 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
> 
> >To quote Rodney King:
> >
> >"Can't we all just get along"
> >
> >Chris Sparsk
> >
> And this from a drunk who can't spell his own name!

Automatic typing can be such a drag!  I manage to type without even
thinking about it.  At least I got the quote right! :-)  The only
thing that I get intoxicated by is my love of Oldsmobiles.

Later.....

Chris Sparks (spelled right this time) :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:04:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Build Sheets, etc.

Linda got removed earlier this week, but she's coming back soon...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	ar713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zuccaro)
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Build sheet, etc.

Car is done, painted [now, how did I end up with purple!] and on
the road.  The gas tank leaks and, when the better half removed it -
found the build sheet.  Not very good condition mind you!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:06:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: # of list members

On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 mrhell@m1.sprynet.com wrote:

> F.A.W.C. (for anyone who cares)
> 
>   -  According to majordom*, and as of 9:18am Saturday there are       
>      332 list members.  Let's all have a list party when we reach 442! 

RC, you forgot the 156 who are digest members. Did Olds ever make a
488-anything? 
 ;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:02:31 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]

><SNIP> winter.  The rear panels for a hardtop will fit on a convertible w/some
> trimming if you find good used ones.

This got me thinking.  If it is the top metal reinforcement needed on
the panel for the rear, doesn't the convertible and Supreme HT have
basically the same upper inside panel shape??????  If so, one could
scrounge for those also.  Don't know for sure, just an idea.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:46:28 -0400
From: Al Barlow <iamoz@ime.net>
Subject: Electrical Help Please

I was investigating why my courtesy lights were not working on my 1971 442
convertible and discovered first that the fuse was bad and second that the
bulbs were missing. When I replaced the fuse and bulbs, the courtesy lights
worked but would not go off. I removed both door button switches thinking
one might be bad and made sure my light switch was not turned all the way
but the lights stiil remain on. Can anyone give me some ideas as to how I
might find the problem and fix it? Any help would be greatly appreciated as
I am quite ignorant when it comes to electrical problems.

Thank You
Al Barlow
1971 Olds 442 Convertible
Thomaston, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:01:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: speaker ohm question?

In a message dated 97-10-11 02:39:22 EDT, you write:

<< I was told that I did not want to use 8 Ohm speakers when the original was
 10 Ohm.
 
 G
 
 
 At 01:02 AM 10/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
 >A few days ago someone was talking about stock speakers, etc.
 >
 >I installed "alpine" 6" x 9"s in my 71' 4-4-2 which has a stock radio. 
 >I believe they are the standard 8 ohms.  Will (or can) this damage my 
 >stock radio and 8-track?
 >
 >Thanks in advance,
 > >>

8 Ohm speakers are ok with  10 ohm system, just make sure you 
dont get 4 ohm speakers which are more and more the standard 
these days.  I have not seen 8 ohm speakers in a while now...TIM

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:15:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: <snip>

In a message dated 97-10-11 10:18:02 EDT, you write:
<? 
 >       <--snipped


500

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:40:40 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: manuals

>I would like to purchase a manual for my 71 c/s convertible. Which is 
the best one to buy?>


In my opinion, 

get a "Chassis Service Manual" (blue book with dark blue lettering)  
Priced anywhere from $20. - $65.

and a "Assembly Manual" (this book shows EVERYTHING! plus, part 
numbers.)  reprints cost anywhere from $18. - $48. for the SAME book!
year one = $29.00
fusick's = $25.00
brothers = $29.00
specialty Olds = $16.50

Many companies sell chassis manual reprints.  Try to find an original 
one at a swap meet or car/parts show.  If you don't care about the 
"collectible condition", you should be able to find one easily for 
around $30. or so.  The reprints I've seen sell for around $50. plus 
shipping costs!

There's also the "Fisher Body" service manual.  You won't really need 
this one unless your doing a frame-off or alot of body work.  If you do 
buy one of these, make sure it's for an "A" body.

Hope this helps!

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:38:22 +0100
From: Roland Klinger <Roland.Klinger@bonn.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket

Thanks to all those fine people here in the List, who helped me with my
crankcase ventilation problem on my 56 Rocket engine.
Bob, I laughed a lot about your international crankcase ventilation
comparison: but you forgot the Italians: They have the crankcase connected
to a pressure reservoir which is used to provide the pressure for braking.
So the rule is: you have to run very fast for half an hour and then you
have the pressure for ONE brake maneuvre.

>I think that '64 was the year they all started coming with PCV. The original
>hole for the draft tube would be a fine place for the PCV fitting; it's just
>a matter of getting it into the intake stream.

I think I´ll try to install the original design. Fusick is looking for such
a tube for me. If they have no success, I think it should be no problem to
make one. I have a very good picture from my 56 showroom album so this
could work and then it would be a real HOMCV-System.<g>

I really want to thank again all those people Olds enthusiasts here, Bob,
Joe, J2 Rocket and all the others who helped me. It´s good to know that
there are always friends who help to keep those old tresures running.

When my car is on the road again, I´ll be back with the question "Why do I
have to take off my right windshield wiper when it starts raining?" But not
yet ........<g>

Greetings from Germany
Roland Klinger


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:00:36 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Help Please

Al Barlow wrote:
> 
> I was investigating why my courtesy lights were not working on my 1971 442
> convertible and discovered first that the fuse was bad and second that the
> bulbs were missing. When I replaced the fuse and bulbs, the courtesy lights
> worked but would not go off. I removed both door button switches thinking
> one might be bad and made sure my light switch was not turned all the way
> but the lights stiil remain on. Can anyone give me some ideas as to how I
> might find the problem and fix it? Any help would be greatly appreciated as
> I am quite ignorant when it comes to electrical problems.
> 
> Thank You
> Al Barlow
> 1971 Olds 442 Convertible
> Thomaston, Maineal,
	these courtesy lights work on a constant positive voltage...when 
the switch conects it grounds the circuit out....so what it sounds like 
is...you have a ground in the lighting system somewhere...most 
likely backfeeding a ground on a light contained in this 
circuit...my most strong  premonition is that its the ground wires 
going to the 2 side dorr switches..check these for a ground by using 
an ohm meter and checking any drain to ground...we do it all the 
time checking for grounds on railroad equipment...to keep a constant 
lookout for possible grounds.....that could be the map light...the dash 
light...below the radio...or in the rear armrest panel since this is a 
convertible...you will have to use a multi meter and check each light 
for proper negative and positive voltage...good luck...and happy 
hunting...Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:11:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Schaack's" <shaqboyz@sbt.net>
Subject: VIN Number

Could someone please translate my VIN number for me?  The number is 
384676MI86448.  My car is a 1966 Ninety Eight Convertible; white with 
red/marroon interior.  Also I was investigating my engine compartment today and 
found that I have B Heads.  Are these the original heads for my car?  My car has
had a lot of things done to it by a previous owner and I'm trying to figure out 
how original it is.  Thanks in advance!

Jerod S.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:05:44 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: possible problems?

Well I noticed today that when I stepped on the gas fairly hard I saw blue smoke
coming out of the right tail pipe.  I did not notice it at decelaration.  If
i rember correct this indicates possible worn rings.   Also my drive side
valve cover is leaking again. I just replaced it about 6 or 8 months ago.
What might cause this problem?   

The 307 still has good power( for the source) and makes no engine noises.

I wonder if I should have it reringed or look for another engine to put in
its place.  What will work good with the o/d trans, ect?

I might be able to find a local individual to possible trade one of the
other rebuildable engines I have in the garage for a rocket motor.  I know
with all the Ch**y fans around this area I should be able to find some one
that will trade the 76 454 for an OLDS power plant.

If any body has any ideas or suggestions please feel free to share them.
Like I said before I am new to the OLDS world.  My dad had a 1968 Cutlass S
350 2spd in the early 70's  (71-74).  I liked the car as a teen ager it was
fun to drive. But as time went by I wound up as a Ch**y person for about 20
years. After the last small block Ch**y wore out its cam also I decided to
try an OLDS. And I am glad I did. I have had more than 4 years of no
problems at all out of the 86 Cutlass untill today when I noticed the smoke.
I didnt think of the valve cover
gasket as a problem.  I have put 70,000 miles on the car, made many vacation
trips, ect..  I would like to stay with the car. I just need to solve the
smoke problem.  The rest of the car is in good shape. Everything still
works, a/c power windows, cruise ect.

Or should I look for an older Rocket?

Please share your thoughts about this.


Clarence
86 Cutlass 307 4dr.      

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:42:40 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Handren's and Gillespie's Cars

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Oh boy, what a dilema, both Bobs and Mikes cars have showed up on
> MCC online.  I have to say that I voted for Bobs car due to that I voted
> for Mikes car on the Web of Wheels online.  So Bob its going to be
> a tought decision upon are Olds list who gets the first place honors.

Well, I just voted 12 times....

- -- 
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:40:16 -0500
From: "MiLiT@Nt1" <militant1@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: speaker ohm question?

As several people have stated, most new car speakers are 4 ohms, and that
would probably damage the amp circuitry.  You can get 8 ohm speaker for
home stereos though and these would work fine.  As a matter of fact, my AM
tuner in the Delmont says 8 - 10 Ohms...  Alternately, you could run 2 4
ohm speakers in series giving you an 8 ohm load.
- --
MiliT@Nt1 <militant1@geocities.com>   '68 Delmont 88 - 455
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:11:04 -0500
From: "MiLiT@Nt1" <militant1@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

Nate
San Antonio, TX (woohoo!)
'68 Delmont 88 - 455, Turbo Hydramatic, Deluxe Interior, and that mysterious 5639
body style on the build sheet(and body tag).  56K original miles. Was Grandma's
car.
- --
MiliT@Nt1 <militant1@geocities.com>   '68 Delmont 88 - 455
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:29:50 -0500
From: "MiLiT@Nt1" <militant1@geocities.com>
Subject: More build sheet info (Was: Build Sheet Help)

Can anyone interpret or make some sense of all this??  PLEASE!!!!!The build
sheet is as follows:
3-193-29-6
364670
5639-357
 A01 W39 Y71 A65

Fisher Body Plate:
            04E
ST 68-35639        LAN364670  BODY
TR 357                           R-R *   PAINT

And the VIN: 354398M361534 <- NOTICE DIFFERENT BODY STYLE!

> > rear door lamp switches?

Nope

>  carpeted door and cowl lower panels, woven-fiber rear window shelf covering,
> Custom Sport Front Seat (the one with the center armrest, from the Delta),
> bright seat side upper and lower panels and rear roof 1/4 lamps.  All these
> items were standard in

Yep

> Now, do you have:
> foam padded rear seat cushion (that would be hard to tell, I guess)?  Nop
> Deluxe Steering Wheel?

Steering wheel has 2 spokes w/ horn buttons and silverish Olds logo centercap.

> Instrument Panel Courtesy and Map (over the radio dial) lamps?  Nope
> Which 455 do you have?

I know it has C heads, but that's about all I know.

> These are the only other differences between a Delmont and a Delta.
> Still trying to figure out why they ordered the Delmont this way...

:-)  Maybe it was what the dealer had on the lot... his Delmont demo car or
something?

> "They coulda had a Delta 88!"

And Miss all this fun?--
MiliT@Nt1 <militant1@geocities.com>   '68 Delmont 88 - 455
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:13:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: MCC Suspicions

I just visited the myclassiccar.com site to get in on the action. Did you 
notice that in addition to the pair of Oldsmobiles, there were a pair of 
AMCs and a bunch of Ch*vys? I wonder if they're on to us. I remember last 
year when they had their all-time favorite poll, the winner was the AMX. 
Word was that the guys on the AMC list stuffed the ballot box. I'm 
suspicious that they're doing this divide-and-conquer stuff to try and 
thwart this.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:34:02 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 73 442

DavidB442@aol.com wrote:

> but then again niether was the wimp they are written about being either! Both
> cars got up and moved when the gas was pushed.....nothing like the feeling of
> a good old American V-8 that's for sure.

Yeah, mine goes too, about mid 16's. got BEAT by a Monte CarSlow SS!! Oh
well, next spring....she'll move.....

 I do have pictures of both cars as
> well as parts off of them also.....

PARTS!!?? How 'bout white buckets and rallye gauges? were they floor
shift models? How about the dash piece closest to the windshield? I
could really use all these. Please let me know Dave!

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:44:02 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: possible problems?

clarence wirtz wrote:
> 
> Well I noticed today that when I stepped on the gas fairly hard I saw blue smoke
> coming out of the right tail pipe.  I did not notice it at decelaration.  If
> i rember correct this indicates possible worn rings.   Also my drive side

I found out a cool trick about worn rings, I don't know if anybody else
knows this. If your oil filler is on your valve cover, then you start
your engine, open it and put your hand over it. If you feel air puffing
out, you have bad rings. It works too!

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: 73 442

i said i may be wrong.  i think i might have.  both cars you described and my
car sound alike.  my car came with a 350/350 combo.  the hood has slates on
it, the interrior has swivel seats, ac, and a 4bbl.  if there is such thing,
what is the difference besides body stripes?

mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:03:14 -0700
From: Teresa Stump <tstump@pacbell.net>
Subject: Lost the heater specs

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD656.CD0DDAA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey guys...HELP!
A while back some of you helped me with some diagrams of the heater for =
my 63 Dynamic 88. Well, we recently moved and the hubby has misplaced =
them.
Since it is getting cold (yes even here in CA) , would anyone be willing =
to send them again??
Thanks in advance,
Teresa
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD656.CD0DDAA0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:06:51 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Valve Lash and a Math Question

>Am I correct that in setting valve lash that it should be done at TDC of 
>the compression stroke rather than at overlap?  And, if so, given a 

Yes, since at that point both lifters will be on the base circle, and lash
will be at its maximum.

>firing order of 18436572 then with #1 at TDC (0 degrees on the harmonic 
>balancer) TDC of #8 will be at 90 degrees, #4 at 180, #3 at 270 and so forth?

Yes, and after two complete revolutions, you'll be right back at #1 TDC.

>Secondly, if the engine is turning 1000 rpm at the crank what is the rpm 
>of the distributor? I suppose this is not all that important but I am 
>curious.

500 rpm. Each plug fires every other crank revolution, so the shaft turns at
half the crank speed.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:06:47 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: curving the distribitor?

>Does anyone have information on "curving a distribitor"?

Yes; if you plot the amount of centrifugal advance vs. rpm, you get a
"curve" that is usually linear up to a maximum amount of advance. Different
springs will adjust how soon that curve begins from the initial advance, as
well as how long it takes to get to maximum advance. You can also include
the vacuum advance in that curve, but because that advance is proportionate
to engine vacuum, it's extremely variable, and usually not counted in what's
referred to as the distributor "curve".

>I know it involves springs but is that all?  

Springs, and in extreme situations, new weights (either heavier or lighter)
and limits or extensions to the slots or pins that regulate maximum advance.

>What is the best way to 
>have this done?  My buddy knows a guy that has a "machine" that he puts 
>the actual distributor in to set it.  

You can do it by machine, where you match the amount of advance at certain
rpms to some ideal curve. Or, you can do it yourself in about an hour's
worth of testing, and create a custom curve that's ideal for your particular
engine. There are many advance kits out there; I was happy with the Crane
adjustable vacuum advance kit, which cost me $22.

>My car has a cam and some have 
>suggested that I need to have the distributor curved to match the 
>cam?.?.

Well, the existing distributor curve may be ideal for your engine, or it may
not. Usually, you want to have as much advance as you can, before detonation
(spark knock) sets in. You want to find out how much total advance you can
run, and try to get that much advance in there as soon as possible. The
exact numbers are not all that important, which is why curving a distributor
on a machine may or may not improve your car's performance, since the ideal
curve that the distributor is set to on that may not be the ideal curve for
your car. It's not just the cam that affects the ideal curve, but also
gearing, transmission, engine condition and other modifications, jetting,
fuel quality, driving style, atmospheric conditions, etc.

I'd recommend something like the Crane kit; follow its instructions, and
you'll likely be happier with how the engine runs afterwards.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:06:53 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: # of list members

>F.A.W.C. (for anyone who cares)
>
>  -  According to majordom*, and as of 9:18am Saturday there are       
>     332 list members.  Let's all have a list party when we reach 442! 

Sorry, folks; we've long passed that mark. You forgot to include the 150+
people who subscribe via digest format. This number varies by the minute,
but the other day, we had 499 members.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:06:45 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: help

>help

Never fear; help is on the way.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:12:27 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Saturday Stuff

Hey, folks.  Greg P. and I were at a few parts yards today, but didn't see
much.  The most interesting thing we saw was a 69 Cutlass S with what
looked like a 71 350 motor.  The thing was painted blue, but looked pretty
good.  The body was pretty rusty, but the decklid looked pretty good.  The
interior wasn't bad, just full of leaves and dirt.  The guy had put on some
glasspacks and some chrome turndown pipes; a home-made job for sure.  Also
saw an F-Body with what seemed to be a 1 3/8" front sway bar.  Pretty big,
in my opinion.  I was lookin for a dual snorkel air cleaner and the dude
there said to check out "the Suburban up top o dat hill o'er thar".  The
Suburban was there, but the motor was sittin upside down beside the thing! 
Well, maybe I won't get the air cleaner.  Greg found his computer out of an
88 S-10 pickup.  After all of this, I do have a question.  My car has
developed some pretty heavy pinging under heavy throttle.  My computer does
elecronically advance or retard timing, but is my initial timing wrong?  I
just replaced my O2 sensor; that wouldn't have made it worse, right? 
Either way, the pinging is pretty bad going up a hill romping on it.  Is
this something to check out soon?  Should I just accept it until I can get
it tuned up (or come up with some money for a timing light and do it
myself)?  Thanks, once again, for y'all's help.
- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:30:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: <the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Tranny Troubles

Well, it's definitely a hot one today here in East Tennessee... I know
well because I had to walk the f***ing mile to work today.  My
transmission is having problems... AGAIN!!!!! >:-(  How the h*ll do
you ring out a "BUILT" TH374 (TH400)... I would think it would be
nearly impossible, certainly not something that would normally happen
behind a near stock smogger 350!  Lucille didn't eat up the 400 as bad
as she did the 350 a few months back and the shop where I had the work
done at (I participated in the buildup) _IS_ going to honor my
warranty... will only cost me in parts.  I'm just wondering what
exactly caused this so that maybe it won't happen again.  I've been
told that the cause is my relatively high physically (2.41:1) rear
end, and I know that a high rear end puts more strain on the tranny
when your winding it out, but would it cause that much pressure to
build up?  Opinions?  Experiences? 

The ideal thing for me to do now, and probably the most fun thing I
could do would be to just convert over to a 4 or 5 speed manual, but
here are a few problems with that:
1.  Would have to hang a clutch in a car that was never supposed to
have one (1984 Cutlass Supreme).
2.  Would have to _MAKE_ a console.
3.  I'm sure that it would be near impossible to find a 4 speed and
all neccessary equipment that bolts up to an Olds small block in the
area I live in (I can't afford to spend more than say 200 bucks
absolute tops) in my price range.
I did check after that last TH350 died and my motor is predrilled for
the pilot bearing from the factory.

Another option is just to go for the built TH400 again, and get a
lower rear end.  I think that if I do this, I will probably have the
tranny made full manual.  It's got a high output front pump, full
clutch packs and a slightly higher than stock stall converter.  I
tried a high stall 'verter one time, but lost too much bottom end,
although after 30mph, the car ran like a scalded cat... would hit 2nd
gear at about 65 mph and wouldn't hit 3rd until about 120... didn't
take very long at all to get there either, she was an _ABSOLUTE_ dog
pulling out though.  What would be a cheap source for a low rear
end... would prefer posi, but at this point I don't really care all
that much.  The car is a 1984 Cutlass Supreme... what rear would that
have?  7.5?  8.5?  To be honest, I've never checked.

If you've got this far, thanks for reading all this ;-)
Please, respond to me with any advice, comments, or experiences that
you have concerning this...

Thanks,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:59:50 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Saturday Stuff

At 11:12 PM 10/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>  After all of this, I do have a question.  My car has
>developed some pretty heavy pinging under heavy throttle.  My computer does
>elecronically advance or retard timing, but is my initial timing wrong?  I
>just replaced my O2 sensor; that wouldn't have made it worse, right? 
>Either way, the pinging is pretty bad going up a hill romping on it.  Is
>this something to check out soon?  Should I just accept it until I can get
>it tuned up (or come up with some money for a timing light and do it
>myself)?  Thanks, once again, for y'all's help.
>-- 
>Jason K. Adcock
>jadcock@vt.edu

Jason,

I dont know what year your car is, but I have the same problem some times.
I have been told to check the two port in the intake under the carb for
carbon build up.  They have tubes that should be installed in the ports. I
checked mine and i do have the carbon build up and one of the tubes are
missing.  As soon as I can get my truck squared away I will pull the intake
and clean it. I know I should do it real soon.  I have also went thru all
the other possibilities , the egr valve, ignition module, plugs wires,
timing,ect, and had no luck also. I dont know if this realy will fix it or
not, it is some thing I have been told. But as soon as I can I am going to
do it.  I also bought the key to read the computer trouble codes and right
now it does not show any trouble codes.
I also only run super unleaded so I may not notice it as much if you are
running regular unleaded.

Like I said, I havent try this yet .  It is some thing I have been told.

I hope this might give you an idea that might help solve your knocking.
If I try it before you I will let you know if it works.  

I noticed blue smoke coming out of my right tail pipe today so I have to
check that when it stops raining. I hope it is not what I think it is.
(rings) It only smokes under hard acceleration.

Hope this helps you Jason.

Clarence
86 Cutlass 4dr 307

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:14:54 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Saturday Stuff

clarence wirtz wrote:

> Jason,
> 
> I dont know what year your car is, but I have the same problem some times.
> I have been told to check the two port in the intake under the carb for
> carbon build up.  They have tubes that should be installed in the ports. I
> checked mine and i do have the carbon build up and one of the tubes are
> missing.

Clarence, thanks for replying.  I, too, have an Olds 307 (84 Cutlass
Supreme Calais).  It has just started doing it severely, so I'll try some
easier things, first (get a timing light and check timing, etc.)  It hasn't
been a gradual change, so I don't think it'd be a build up of carbon.  But,
I know jack about this sort of stuff, so you might be right.  This winter
break, I want to take the carb and manifold off and clean everything
anyway, so I'll look for that.  My ECM adjusts the timing constantly, but
I'm sure that my initial timing is off somewhere.  I might have just gotten
some cheap gas this time, so I won't go sell the farm for this or anything
(as if I had a farm to sell).  These engines don't have knock sensors or
anything, do they?  I'm sure they don't, just a thought.  Thanks.

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:40:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Sway Bars

Was junkyarding for a little while today, got a vent cable for the Delta 
(it's original had a knob missing) and (ta-DAHHH!) a rear sway bar, off a 
late-80s C*price. Will be putting it on as soon as the bolts and brackets 
come in from the dealer (the yard torched them removing it). So I'll let 
you all know how well it works when it goes on.

Right next to the Ch*vy in the yard was an '80 Firebird Formula. Looked
into the engine room and it's front bar was a beefy one, looked to be
maybe 1 1/4 inches. I understand that this would fit my Cutlass. I was
tempted to get it also but was worried a little that it might make the
ride too harsh. The Cutlass is already a little choppy and harsh on
certain surfaces, and I suspect the control arm bushings in front are
pretty much worn out, which might contribute to that. But even if they
were replaced, I'd be concerned that a big bar like that might make it too
stiff. OTOH, when I added the rear bar a few years ago it made a big
difference in the handling, and the thing is almost too twitchy right now,
so the bigger front bar would likely help in that department. Any
thoughts? 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:56:49 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Sway Bars

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> were replaced, I'd be concerned that a big bar like that might make it too
> stiff. OTOH, when I added the rear bar a few years ago it made a big
> difference in the handling, and the thing is almost too twitchy right now,
> so the bigger front bar would likely help in that department. Any
> thoughts?
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I'm sure that everyone on this list has noticed by now that I love my new
front suspension.  It has been in my experience that you can't have enough
stiffness in the front.  I, too, was concerned about the harshness.  Also,
my car has T-Tops, so I figured that the chassis would be even more loose. 
Mine has a 1.25 front sway bar and a 1.00 inch rear one.  The car feels
real tight in the corners (ask Greg P.; we found out today on a curvy back
road!).  After the bushing change, the car really tightned up!  I can
imagine that a sway bar change would do the same.  I'm sure some others
have opinions on this issue as well, so don't just take my word.  Besides,
your car and mine are 16 years apart, so suspension geometries have
probably changed between the time your car was designed and the time mine
was.  But, I can't speak highly enough on the polygraphite bushings I have,
though.

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:08:41 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Dual-Snorkel Air Cleaner

To owners of G-Body performance cars:

Do any of your cars have dual snorkel air cleaners?  I saw one on an '83
H/O at last year's Templeton Olds show in VA and it looked stock, but I
can't be sure.  If they do have two snorkels, are there two air ducts to
two air boxes, or do the snorkels just open up to the engine compartment? 
My intention is to get a dual snorkel cleaner and run two pipes to the
bumper area.  The front bumper ascii-art is below:

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|  +------+     |----------|         |-----------|    +------+  |
|  +------+     |----------|         |-----------|    +------+  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------|
    ^^^^^^       ^^^^^^^^^^
      ||             ||
     Turn         Cut-outs
    Signals

My tentative plan is to contruct little air boxes to go into the two bumper
cut-outs in the front.  Don't know how I'm going to make the boxes, but if
I got that far into the project, I sure could figure something out!

Thanks for your help.

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:44:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: 69 H/O engine

Hi All - 

A friend of mine who is a non-Olds guy has a dismantled but complete (no
air-cleaner assembly) and apparently all original 69 H/O engine that he wants
to get rid of.  It needs a rebuild.  What do you all think it would be worth?
 

How much demand is out there among our 332 (amazing!) members for such a
mill?  Hey Drew, howsabout dropping it into your Supreme?!  Yowzah!

Tom SImmons
71 Cutlass Supreme SX and (soon) 70 SX W-32

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:07:50 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[4]: Convertible rear interior panels 

        Joe,
>                 How soon we forget what auto maker John Delorean worked
        for. He was the creator of the Pontiac GTO. I mentioned this because 
        the car is actually a Lemans Sport with a GTO front end and badges. 
        The use of the word "Delorean" is my way of not saying Pontiac GTO 
        (ooops !!)
                                The General
     
     Yup...must be the jet lag (I just flew in from the Left Coast).
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:38:23 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!

Will someone tell me if this will work...
I have a 70 442 with the 12 bolt cover.  Inside (supposedly) is a 10 
bolt with a 8.5" ring gear and has 28 spline axles.  
Can I replace my open rear end with a "late model" aftermarket posi unit 
with the same spec's, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
Brad
70 442
     
     As far as I know, the Type-O "12 bolt" actually uses an 8.2" ring 
     gear, and as you might expect, nothing interchanges with the later 
     units.  To the casual observer, it would appear that this "12-bolt" is 
     actually less strong than the 71-up corporate 10-bolt rear used in 
     those year 442s.  I _do_ recall someone (Bob Handren?) noting that the 
     Type-O 12-bolt uses larger bolts to hold the ring gear (albeit, only 
     10 of them) than the Type-C 12-bolt (with its admittedly 8.75" ring 
     gear).
     
     I guess we're long overdue for another rear axle thread...
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:02:09 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[4]: Convertible rear interior panels 

     
ummm.....71 delorean...isn't that a GTO....he worked for them.....Hoagie
     
     Good one, but I think he had moved on to Ch*vy by then.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:24:35 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: VIN Locations (was: original frame?)

The frame numbers are on the drivers side frame about 6 inches from were the 
frame turns in toward the front tire....

WOW, now THAT's great info. I have never heard of this not even in the factory 
service manuals. So, does this go back to '68? Any other 'secret hidden 
locations' for the VIN?
     
     Back when I was in college ('bout a hundred years ago in that 
     car-theft capital of the world, Boston), my 67 Cutlass 2dr HT was 
     stolen and later recovered.  I was asked to go to court to testify 
     (another story for another time).  The VIN had been changed, and the 
     police indicated that they had verified the original VIN from a 
     location on the frame crossmember over the rear axle.  I've also heard 
     (but not verified) that the VIN is stamped into the firewall somewhere 
     below the heater box (anyone got the front end off and want to 
     check?).  This data is specifically _not_ publicized, as the intent is 
     to provide "secret" VIN verification in theft cases.  Note that on 
     newer cars (and per federal regulations) the VIN is actually stamped 
     on parts commonly stripped and sold to body shops, such as fenders, 
     bumpers, glass, etc.  Makes you wonder what they do when the parts are 
     legitimately purchased from a wrecking yard.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:41:38 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: <snip>

In a message dated 97-10-11 10:18:02 EDT, you write: 
<? 
 >       <--snipped
     
     
500
     
     OK, while Chris Witt is probably happy about this, I think we may have 
     taken the snip-your-replies thing just a tad too far....
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:57:05 -0000
From: "Rod Beydler" <rodsmobile@mscomm.com>
Subject: Date:	Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:57:05 -0000

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:05:08 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O engine

>
>
>A friend of mine who is a non-Olds guy has a dismantled but complete (no
>air-cleaner assembly) and apparently all original 69 H/O engine that he wants
>to get rid of.  It needs a rebuild.  What do you all think it would be worth?
> 
>
>
>Tom SImmons
>71 Cutlass Supreme SX and (soon) 70 SX W-32
>

Boy wouldnt that be fun in an 86 Cutlass if it could be made smog legal. HA HA:)

Clarence 
86 Cutlass 4dr 307 
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: NotDads442@aol.com
Subject: RE: Bob Handren's Olds on MCC page

Bob,

Were you buy chance traveling with your car in Kansas this weekend?  If not I
saw a twin to your car on a trailer just south of Salina KS on Saturday.

Cecil
1991 W41
OCA #29604

PS You got my vote.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:38:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: dist'r speed

the compression stroke rather than at overlap?  And, if so, given a
firing order of 18436572 then with #1 at TDC (0 degrees on the harmonic
balancer) TDC of #8 will be at 90 degrees, #4 at 180, #3 at 270 and so forth?

Secondly, if the engine is turning 1000 rpm at the crank what is the rpm
of the distributor? I suppose this is not all that important but I am
curious.

Thanks

Al Varhus
=================
I'd say that #8's throw will be 90' behind, or CCW of the #1 crankppin. #4 will
be 180' CCW [not that that matters for 180...], etc. As viewed from the front
of the engine.

The distributor must turn once to feed every cylinder a spark for every
complete cycle. A complete cycle is by definition 4 strokes, or two turns of
the crank. Therefore, dist'r speed = cam speed = 1/2 crank speed. And, turning
the dist'r by say 2 degrees alters timing by *4* crank degrees...
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:46:43 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O engine

clarence wirtz wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >A friend of mine who is a non-Olds guy has a dismantled but complete (no
> >air-cleaner assembly) and apparently all original 69 H/O engine that he wants
> >to get rid of.  It needs a rebuild.  What do you all think it would be worth?
> >
> >
> >
> >Tom SImmons
> >71 Cutlass Supreme SX and (soon) 70 SX W-32
> >
> 
> Boy wouldnt that be fun in an 86 Cutlass if it could be made smog legal. HA HA:)
> 
> Clarence
> 86 Cutlass 4dr 307
> ummmmmmmmmm...I think that the 71 cutlass sx would be a w-32 model also 
being there weren't any L-33 made is SX's in 
1971...anyone...anyone.....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 22:58:06 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Sway Bars

     
The Gregster wrote:

Right next to the Ch*vy in the yard was an '80 Firebird Formula. Looked 
into the engine room and it's front bar was a beefy one, looked to be 
maybe 1 1/4 inches. I understand that this would fit my Cutlass.

     Yep, it will.  You will need the rubber frame mounts with the larger 
     holes, tho.

 I was tempted to get it also but was worried a little that it might make 
the ride too harsh. 

     Shouldn't...well maybe on single-wheel bumps.  For the most part, the 
     sway bar shouldn't effect ride quality one way or the other.

..But even if they were replaced, I'd be concerned that a big bar like 
that might make it too stiff. 

     Well, increasing the stiffness of the front bar (ie, increasing the 
     diameter) will _increase_ understeer.  Since American cars of that 
     vintage understeer by design, increasing the understeer is normally 
     not a good thing.  However, as you have pointed out, adding the rear 
     bar should have significantly decreased understeer, so the larger 
     front bar will bring it back.  In addition, there are some 
     second-order effects which relate to camber change during cornering 
     due to body roll.  Basically, reducing body roll (which the larger 
     bar will accomplish) is usually a good thing.  All of this, of 
     course, is moot if the front end parts are sloppy.  Definitely get 
     this corrected as a priority.

OTOH, when I added the rear bar a few years ago it made a big difference 
in the handling, and the thing is almost too twitchy right now, so the 
bigger front bar would likely help in that department. Any thoughts? 

     See above.
     
     By the way, that Formula wouldn't happen to have a WS-6 steering box, 
     would it?
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

     
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 22:46:07 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: VIN Number

Jerod wrote:

Could someone please translate my VIN number for me?

     OK

The number is 384676MI86448.  

     3 = Oldsmobile Division
     84 = Ninety Eight Series
     67 = Convertible
     6 = 1966
     M = Built in Lansing
     186448 = Sequential build number (note that's a "1", not an "I")

My car is a 1966 Ninety Eight Convertible; 

     So far so good...

white with red/marroon interior.  

     If you can find the body data plate on the cowl, this and more info can 
     further be decoded/verified.

Also I was investigating my engine compartment today and found that I have B 
Heads.  Are these the original heads for my car?  

     Yep.  There should be an engine unit number stamped into a machined pad on 
     the front of the passenger side cylinder head (or the rear of the driver's 
     side head if the heads have ever been removed and reinstalled on the 
     opposite sides of the engine).  The unit number for your car should start 
     with the letter N and have a six digit sequential build number starting 
     with 5.

My car has had a lot of things done to it by a previous owner and I'm trying to 
figure out how original it is.  Thanks in advance!
     
     You're welcome and good luck.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:59:57 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Sway Bars

Adcock, Jason K. wrote:
> 
> Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> > were replaced, I'd be concerned that a big bar like that might make it too
> > stiff. OTOH, when I added the rear bar a few years ago it made a big
> > difference in the handling, and the thing is almost too twitchy right now,
> > so the bigger front bar would likely help in that department. Any
> > thoughts?
> >
> > Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 
> I'm sure that everyone on this list has noticed by now that I love my new
> front suspension.  It has been in my experience that you can't have enough
> stiffness in the front.  I, too, was concerned about the harshness.  Also,
> my car has T-Tops, so I figured that the chassis would be even more loose.
> Mine has a 1.25 front sway bar and a 1.00 inch rear one.  The car feels
> real tight in the corners (ask Greg P.; we found out today on a curvy back
> road!).  After the bushing change, the car really tightned up!  I can
> imagine that a sway bar change would do the same.  I'm sure some others
> have opinions on this issue as well, so don't just take my word.  Besides,
> your car and mine are 16 years apart, so suspension geometries have
> probably changed between the time your car was designed and the time mine
> was.  But, I can't speak highly enough on the polygraphite bushings I have,
> though.
> 
> --
> Jason K. Adcock
> jadcock@vt.edu


sway bars will add some tightness in the corners.but for my 
money..I think polyeurothane bushings are a much better bang for 
the buck....if you have ever taken apart a rubber bushing front 
end you would see how distorted these bushings get over a period 
of time...maybe up north you guys have a problem with the harshness 
of the ride...or they don't last...but I can tell you it adds a lot more 
tightness and driveability to any 4000lb muscle car....and don't blame 
me if your roads SUCK....but down here...its rides like glass...and the 
progressive front and rear springs I bought from national parts depot 
aren't bad either....so...maybe up there they only last 2 years...or 
they ride too harsh.....but down here...ITS ALL GOOD!!!....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:04:51 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ADVICE NEEDED!!!

As long as Joe has started a rear axle thread <G>, I'll throw my plea for
help out too.
Pullled a rear axle today because of a leaky seal. The whole rear end is
transplanted from a 70 GTO and is a 10 bolt posi unit. The cover also has 10
bolts. From what I can tell from my 69 chassis manual, the axle looks like
the 4800 O type introduced for the Vista-Cruiser in 69.
Questions:
1. Is there an easy way to get the bearing off without  a press? What about
the inner retainer?

2. The outer retainer or clamp is not flat between the bolt holes on each of
the four sides.      Is this normal? The manual shows straight flat edges
between the holes. I think my original rear end had a flat retainer,
otherwise it was identical.

3. If it's not normal, does anyone have a spare outer retainer/clamp for
sale?

4. There was RTV or some type of sealer between the retainer/clamp and the
backing plate. Is it normal to use this stuff to seal the axle or is this
maybe an attemp to try and compensate for the distorted retainer?

So, on a beatifull weekend, my car is up on jackstands waiting patiently for
me to solve this problem. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm
- -----Original Message-----
From: padavano.joe <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
>     snip>
>     I guess we're long overdue for another rear axle thread...
>
>     Joe Padavano
>     padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>     66 442
>     68 W-30
>     69 H/O
>     70 W-30
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #899
********************************

