
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, September 2 1997      Volume 01 : Number 829



Re: Repair of O.A.I. Hoods
Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)
Re: 1958 Olds 88 (fwd)
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale 
69 W-31 Conv.
Re: Quiet
Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI
GM A-body construction
Re: 350 vs. 403
drag engine buildup advice needed
Re: GM A-body construction
Re: ADMIN: More trivial suggestions?
Brothers auto
Re: GM A-body construction
Re: 403 olds
Re: drag engine buildup advice needed
Sept JWO...
Re: lansing and misc
Re: GM A-body construction
Fwd: Road Assistance (fwd)
NZ 403
Re: Brothers auto
Re: NZ 403
Re: 69 W-31 Conv.
Re: List not working?
'69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O
Re: Quiet
Fw: Drag car buildup advice needed
Re: GM A-body construction
Re: Sept JWO...
Re: GM A-body construction
Re: Drag car buildup advice needed
Re: Solid Main Web 403's again?
Re: 403 olds
Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI
68-69 442 Body Data Plates
Re: Big small block
Re[2]: 69 W-31 Conv.
Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O
Re: Brothers auto
Springfield 98
Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O
Re: Sept JWO...
Re: Julian Show
Re: 70 Paint Codes
Re: lansing and misc
Re: 403 olds
Door Hinge Rebuild
Re: Door Hinge Rebuild
Re: Brothers auto

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:54:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Repair of O.A.I. Hoods

OK gang, I need a little advice on this subject. Very timely thread for me.

A few weeks ago my buddy Brian was on a drive thru the countryside when he
spotted a '71 Cutlass convertible in someone's driveway. Stopped, went in,
talked to the guy. Fellow is a salesman at a GM store, and had a '71 W-30
way back when. Rusted out and he junked it years ago, bought the
convertible a few years later to have a hobby car. But when he junked the
W-30 he saved the OAI setup and the aluminum intake. Never put them on the
convertible.  Brian talked some more, turns out the guy isn't really into
this very much, and didn't know where he could get some things for the
Cutlass that he wanted -- new armrests, dash chrome, etc. Offered to swap
Brian the intake for these things. So when we were in Lansing he picked up
the stuff for to make the deal. 

I took Brian to the guy's place yesterday. The intake had 2 tiny cracks 
that had been repaired a long time ago and looked great. They did the 
swap, and Brian got a heck of a deal. Now the interesting part. Leaning 
against the back outside wall of the guy's garage was the '71 OAI hood. 
Must have been there 10-15 years. The guy wants next to nothing for it. 
Amazing what one can find.

We picked it up and looked at it. It had been placed there with the back 
edge of the hood (with chrome strip) on the ground. Over the years, water 
had gotten into the metal frame in that area, collected, and rusted that 
part of the frame away. As a result one corner of the fiberglass has 
cracked due to the weight bearing down on it. The rest of the frame 
appears fine aside from some serious surface rust.

From what we know, the repair to the fiberglass would be easy. The frame 
repair is another matter. The frame in that area looks the same as a 
regular hood except there is no opening for vents -- a metal plate is 
welded over the opening. The big question: does anyone know if the hood 
frame for about the 12 inches from the windshield forward is the same on 
OAI units as on regular hoods? If so, he'd buy it in an instant and do 
the fix. Assuming it is, does anyone know how hard it is to separate the 
frame from the fiberglass without destroying the 'glass?

Any help greatly appreciated...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 06:36:19 -0700
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)

Robert,

Thanks for the response.  Re: your question;

The Offenhauser valve covers are polished cast aluminum.  They look
pretty close
in height to the originals, so don't know if they have enough learance
for roller
rockers. Won't put them on the car until I get it back from the
body/paint guy.  The
car that I saw with these on it was a'67 4-4-2 running a 400 with air,
so don't think
there should be a problem with the the stock A/C and alternator
brackets?

Gary Andresen

Robert Barry wrote:
> 
> >This will be interesting if you like 50's Olds's, Fast Olds's
> >or JUST LOVE CARS as I do.
> 
> This is the right place!
> 
> <snip>
> >My next Olds was purchased when I was eighteen from a buddy at college.
> >It was a '55 Super 88 2-door hardtop.  White and black with a red
> <snip>
> >No more Oldsmobile until three years ago when a bought a '55 "88" 2-door
> <snip>
> >As you may have guessed by now I am recreating the '55 that I loved so
> much.  Back in
> >'61, a J-2 had respectable power, but not today.  So the engine compartment now
> >contains a balanced and blueprinted 455 Olds power house with Dual Carter
> AFB 4-barrels
> >sittin on an Offenhaused intake. MSD ignition and a mile cam.  Learned from
> a guy at
> >a car show that Offenhaused would special order thier beautiful ribbed
> aluminum valve
> >covers, so they are sitting on my workbench waiting to be installed as a
> final touch.
> >This is connected to a rebuilt TH400 transmission which is hooked up to the
> stock rear
> >end.
> 
> Sounds like a real nice engine. Now, about those Offenhauser valve covers;
> are they polished cast aluminum, or rough-cast? Do they have enough
> clearance for roller rockers? Do they fit under the stock A/C and alternator
> brackets?
> 
> >MY FIRST QUESTION - Do you think the rear-end can handle this engine??
> This isn't
> >intended to be a drag car, but you know damn well I will get on it every
> chance I get.
> 
> As someone said previously, these Olds/Pontiac rears were *the* rear axles
> used on the early-60's gassers, so unless you're really intent on running in
> the low-9/high-8 second times at the strip, you should have no problem.
> 
> >Every bit of chrome and stainless has been re-done. (Would you believe
> >over $3,200,
> 
> I believe it. But hey, it's only money... :)
> 
> >Brand new top-tinted windshield (Was $350 a fair price) and tinted straight
> >glass.
> 
> With those curves in it? Yeah, I think that's more than fair.
> 
> >OPINIONS ON THIS WELCOME - I am now also trying to decide on what to do
> about the wheels
> >and tires.  Having a lot of trouble trouble with this.  Have the original
> small hubcaps
> >with the white Olds workd insignia.  Three are good and one has a small
> dent.  This could
> >like nice with a chrome rign treatment.  Will install radials, but want
> tires that can
> >handle the engine, so I assume white walls are out, but not sure if I want
> them or not
> >anyway.
> 
> Don't assume; Coker's catalog has some modern-design, wide white-wall
> radials (BF Goodrich's "Silvertown" radials) that should do pretty well on
> that car. They've got 14" and 15" sizes, in 75 and 70-series profiles, up to
> 255/70-15 size (that should look nice on the rear of your car!).
> 
> >Have also considered smoothie chromed rims with the round hubcaps for a
> >mild street rod treatment.
> 
> If you didn't go with the chrome steel rims, a set of American "Torq-Thrust
> D" rims would look period, but I think a _real_ slick looking setup would be
> a set of original-style Halibrand wheels, as used in the
> late-50's/early-60's Indy and Bonneville cars. These are advertised as being
> reproduced, and the Rod magazines should have the ads for them.
> 
> >Hope this was too long.  Don't know what the etiquete is for this group.
> 
> Nope; nice hearing your plans. Sounds like you'll have a sweet cruiser there.
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 07:10:26 -0700
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: 1958 Olds 88 (fwd)

Regarding Rebuild part for Olds engine:

Recently came across USA Parts supply in VA (703) 335-1935.
Ordered their 1941-1975 Olds Catalog, which is quite complete.
Their prices seem good too.

Gary Andresen


Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Hope one of you can assist this lady.
> I told her the usual: Join OCA, get a Hemming's, write to Olds history Center
> [forgot the address though]. Consult the FAQ. Sent her Franklin Graf's ad from
> the latest JWO- he does 50's Rocket motors.
> 
> What else can we do for her? Give her a nice welcome email if you can, eh?
> 
> > We've just purchased a 1958 Olds 88 that our teen-age son wants to
> > restore.  It is in good shape body-wise, but we've pulled the
> > motor/transmission.  Supposedly it is a 271?  and we haven't found
> > anyone that has a reuild kit or parts to fit.  We thought maybe we would
> > just replace.  Can this motor be made to run and is it really
> > expensive.  We though we would be better off changing it to something
> > more popular so parts would be readily available.    Anyway I'm trying
> > to find out info.  Please help a worried mom!
> >
> > Also how can I get information on how many of these cars are known to
> > exist today?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.  This is my work e-mail.  If you would prefer to
> > send a message to my hom it is RStan14950aol.com.
> >  Thanks, Jean Stanley
> >
> 
> --
> Chris  B. Witt
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:20:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale 

jim, i deal in parts also, mostly 68-72 but i do find other things from time
to time. on the 455 alluminum intake would you consider a trade, anything
your looking for? please reply steven.  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:32:44 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: 69 W-31 Conv.

At the local cruise night yesterdayt a gentleman approached me about the
sale of a 69 cutlass convertible with what as he desribed a W-31 engine but
with an aluminum intake 

Could a late in the year 69 come with a 70 engine

And were there convertible W-31's in 69

He described the car as Gold with gold interior,  manual steering Manual
disc brakes, 3.42 posi,  4 gear
and convertible

Robert Schinkel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 06:13:20 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet

Don Sowers wrote:
> 
> Boy am I glad to receive your message on the server.  I did not have a
> single message come across and thought I had pushed the wrong button or
> had bad breath or something.  At least I know the mail today was really
> slow for some reason.  How was the weather in your part of the world
> today?  It was close to 90 and sunny here in central Kentucky.  Played

In So. California, LA area, it has been about 85-ish.  Not too bad when
you
drive in an A/C car! :-)

> in the state class E softball tournament and about died but finished
> fifth.  Should have won it because our two losses were due to self
> inflicted stupidity.  Had a good time though.  Found out Friday my wife
> did not have cancer again so it is hard to not be happy.  Did see a

That is good to hear.

> 70-72 Cutlass (color Tennessee orange, ugh) going up I-75 that looked in

Now that is interesting.  Tennessee Orange?

> good shape.
> 
> Hope the Labor Day weekend is going well for you.

Oh it is going ok.  I get a little upset when I see good people dying at
such young ages.  I was upset too when Karen Carpenter died.

Later....

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:13:55 -0400
From: Rich Inacker <rinacker@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI

Jeff Easton, <easton@calcon.net> writes:

>Is the above listings total advance?

Yes. I'm not running a vacuum advance can.

>I'm assuming
>that total advance is = mechanical advance (set w/
>timing light) + centrifical advance (springs) @RPM +
>Vacuum advance @ vacuum.  Is that the right formula?

Just one change in terminology: What you refer to as 'mechanical'
advance, I call 'initial' advance. So, the formula looks like:

[total @ RPM @ inHG] = [initial] + [centrifugal @ RPM] + [vacuum @ inHg]

(let's look at the curve assuming 12 deg initial...)
>Centrifical Advance
>
>RPM			Cent.    Total (no vac)
>1000			2  deg.    14
>1600			10 deg.    22
>2300			15 deg.    27
>2700			20 deg.    32
>3000			24 deg.    36

Which looks like a pretty reasonable curve for premium pump gas and a
CR around 9-9.5:1, I guess.

>Using the above formula, with a 12 degrees
>of mechanical advance set, at 3000 rpm and 18 inches
>of vacuum I would have 52 degrees total advance.  Sounds
>rather high to me.

Really depends on how much vacuum your cam produces. The
idea behind vacuum advance is to add advance under low load, part throttle
condtions (which 3000 RPM and 18 inHg would imply) where the engine can
tolerate it. The additional advance tends to help fuel economy and
(debatably) engine cooling.

When your foot is to the floor (high load), vacuum approaches 0 inHg and
the advance is out of the picture. My cam (JM 20/22) idles at about 15-16
inHg and I only see > 18 inHg at part throttle cruise so that would be
about right. If your cam idles at 20 inHg, then that vacuum advance might
result in detonation when you ease into the throttle if manifold vacuum
doesn't drop below 18. You'd have about 22 (@ 1600, say) + 18 = 40 deg.

Most folks who drag race their cars disable the vacuum advance to allow
more initial and centrifugal without having to worry about detonation when
the vacuum starts to come up at the top of the last gear.

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

Date: 1 Sep 1997 07:20:32 PST
From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Subject: GM A-body construction

I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?

Also I have been noticing that sometimes my oil pressure gauge will
flutter when the engine is warmed up, is this something that I should
look into seriously?  The flutter is maybe +/- 1 PSI, and the lowest PSI
I've seen the pump put out (which was at idle) was 7 as per the service
manual.

Mike Jones
'78 Olds 88

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:09:54 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 350 vs. 403

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Plus, 350
> heads on the 403 is an ultra-easy compression boost. Well, *most* 350 heads,
> not much boost from the common #8 heads.

Hey! Stop bad-mouthin' my heads! ;-)

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:47:06 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: drag engine buildup advice needed

Ok, first of all thanks to those that have replied to my first post about
picking the right car to start my drag car project with.  Now for the
engine.  There are a few issues that worry me with building up an Olds
engine for drag use.  First of all is cost.  Since I do not have unlimited
funds to drop into this project, I can not build a mega buck motor.  Can I
get a consistent and reliable 455 built that will last a LONG time going
down the 1/4 for a reasonable price? I can not afford to have the engine
rebuilt every few months. I am looking for a mid to low 12 sec engine to
start. I would like to keep the car an Olds powered Olds...but putting a BB
Chevy is tempting for a few reasons. First, I can get a brand new crate 502
with a 3yr/36,000 warranty. Is there any shops that offer some security
like that?
Second is cost...BBC parts are fairly cheap and easy to find so if I do
break something big I won't break my budget.  I am not looking for a chevy
v. olds bash fest to begin, just honest unbiased (if that is possible
:-)... opinions.   Thanks!
____________________________________________
Jason Labay - Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group
z28cfi@gwis.com  Akron, OH
95 DCM Impala SS.....don't get much better than this
80 Olds 442 W-30.......show car
75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project
85 S-10 Blazer 4x4.......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:00:18 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

- ----------
> From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: GM A-body construction
> Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 11:20 AM
> 
> I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
> unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
> and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
> cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?
> 
	
	Tell your friend to stop smokin that stuff he is on !!!!!!!!!
	All a bodies had full frames. F-bodies had X-bodies had sub-frames.


> Also I have been noticing that sometimes my oil pressure gauge will
> flutter when the engine is warmed up, is this something that I should
> look into seriously?  The flutter is maybe +/- 1 PSI, and the lowest PSI
> I've seen the pump put out (which was at idle) was 7 as per the service
> manual.
> 
> 	These fluctuations are normal - the sender is not that accurate

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:18:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: More trivial suggestions?

On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Charley Buehner wrote:

> Some other listservers I've seen add a footer stating what to do to
> remove yourself from their list.  Whaddya all think about doing that? 
> It seems that so many of the posts these days are simply remove requests
> (doesn't ~anybody~ read their welcome message?????!) perhaps it would
> conserve troubles to add such a message as a listserver signature.  Any
> thoughts?
> 
Or, in the spirit of repitition for emphasis, those members who SAVED 
their welcome message could forward it to all who ask to be removed?  
This is a bit rude, but the info WOULD get there?

I'm not into spam, but that really isn't spam in the traditional sense of 
the word.

(BTW, one month I have off, look for some shiny new additions to my page 
next week!)

Er ic Ak somitis

aksomi@cs.uregina.ca

http:www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi

....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:32:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Brothers auto

Just thought I'd let you all know about my experiences with this outfit.

3 months ago I spent ~$3.5K ordering  parts for a frame off of my '69 442
conv. Was told  I'd have everything in 7-10 days. After 3 wks I began calling
and emailing them.
Impossible to get through to them on the phone. Didn't respond to my emails.
When I did get through, I was promised a callback which never ( multiple
times ) came.

Lots of excuses--  the supplier didn't have the quarters, Lansing, the UPS
strike..
but never a good excuse for their lack of responsiveness. As we all see daily
on this board, it does not take much to respond to email. Or fax.

I'm still awaiting my new inner fenders.
3 months 
A Mickey Mouse operation,  Brothers Auto.
My 2 cents.
Peter Sliskovich/Coupe King

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 13:48:19 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

mjones@dragon.gleep.com wrote:
> 
> I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
> unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
> and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
> cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?

Maybe the person that told you that had the 64-72 A bodies confused with
the early sixties when the F-85 was in the same family as the corvair. 
Weren't they unibody?  I think all the 64-72 F-85s had full frames.  My
Cutlass Supreme and Vista Cruiser sure do.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser 
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:38:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: 403 olds

first thing i would do is buy a hot rod magazine.  then order a catalog for
parts.  a 403 is not much different from a 350.  with most parts
interchangable, you can order parts for a 350.  the only difference in the
engines is the bore.  but the bore changes the piston sizes.  you might want
to invest in a mild cam because a 403 is a slow turning motor.  also think
about getting the heads milled to increase the compression ratio.  i own a
403 and i am currently building a new set of heads for it.  the heads are off
a 73 350.  i am thinking of taking about 0.060 off the heads to make the
engine turn a few more rps.  if you mill the heads you must do a complete
head job, which includes valve job, and you will need new rings to withstand
the higher compression.

73 cutlass w/403
70 442 w/455  (in progress)

mikey tvb@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:27:39 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: drag engine buildup advice needed

Mid to low 12's isn't difficult with an olds nor expensive
If you chose to use your 80 Olds which is lighter and dropped in a 455 with
just minor modifications you would achive your goal of 12's with no
problem.

Even a stock 455 toro motor from 68 -69 will give you a high 12 to a low 13
with minor suspension work and slicks 

The 502 cid 502 hp engine I have heard is quite good but still expensive
A 455 .030 over , TRW pistons , JM 20-22 cam , Torker Intake , 800 cfm 
Holley , and mild head work with some decent gears and a 3000 stall
converter will put you in the 12's with no problem.

I run the engine I just described in a 70 convertible and I'm in the low
13's 
My car wieghs 4000 lbs 

Your 80 Cutlass will be 600 lbs lighter which would give you mid 12's and
still very streetable on pump gas.

Next year I will be going to NOS and a lighter car chasing after High 11's
low 12's

Just my $0.02 


Robert Schinkel
1970 W - 31
1970 442 Convertible
1970 Cutlass Convertible





I am looking for a mid to low 12 sec engine to
> start. , just honest unbiased (if that is possible
> :-)... opinions. 

  Thanks!
> ____________________________________________
> Jason Labay - Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group
> z28cfi@gwis.com  Akron, OH
> 95 DCM Impala SS.....don't get much better than this
> 80 Olds 442 W-30.......show car
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25...restoration project
> 85 S-10 Blazer 4x4.......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:22:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Sept JWO...

Got the 9/97 JWO a couple days ago... seems there's a nice article on the 67
model year by none other than...

Lisa Madsen!

Allright, published author!
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:24:15 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: lansing and misc

Chris,

The brakes on my 69 are manual drum. I didn't see many 69's either (except
for the H/Os). Where were they?

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: chris smetana <chris@abcs.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 3:48 AM
Subject: lansing and misc



Well, I decided to scrap the digest idea and go to real time.  I don't like
the way digests are done (personal taste) and I'm finally caught up on the
last 8 digests.

<snip>

Mick Gillespie, did you say your 69 has manual brakes??  It wouldn't by
chance be discs in front would it??

<snip>
Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris@abcs.com
69 W-31 plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:55:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

On 1 Sep 1997 mjones@dragon.gleep.com wrote:
> I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
> unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
> and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
> cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?

They aren't unibody in the usual sense of the term. They do have full 
frames under them. However, if you look at the liteature of the period 
when they were introduced (late '63) you'll see that GM made a big deal 
out of the fact that they used some unibody techniques in the body design 
to add stiffness and let them get away with a lighter frame than was 
typical at the time. The idea was that the body would act as a structural 
member, not just pieces bolted on to the frame. I think they continued 
with this idea in the '65 full-sizers. From the lightness of frames used 
on the '77 and up B & C bodies and the '78 and up A & G bodies I think 
they took that idea another step forward later on.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:58:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Fwd: Road Assistance (fwd)

Forwarding a request from a non-member... please respond directly to 
daily73@aol.com

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:00:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daily73@aol.com
To: ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Fwd: Road Assistance

Could you forward this letter to the Olds and Toro e-mail lists for me? It's
pretty self explanitory. Got your address from Doug Kitchener who said you
may have some insight for me. Thanks very much for any help you can offer!
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:

>            Sorry I couldn't make it to the parking lot on thursday. I had
> quite a few problems of my own, and I didn't even make it to Lansing until
> almost 7:30 Thursday night. Monday I had to put head gaskets on the 442
> 'cause of a continual overheating problem at highway speeds. It didn't cure
> the problem, and by Wednsday night(10:00!), I was changing the radiator for
> the third time! That finally cured the problem, and we were on our way the
> next morning. Got caught in a traffic jam in Indiana and it overheated.
> Again, cured the problem and ran fine 'till 30 miles out of Lansing where I
> developed a small leak in the radiator. AGAIN, cured the problem and it ran
> fine all weekend long. Made it almost to Indiana on the way home and the
> radiator finally gave out completely. Fortunately, there was someone who
> happened to have a spare 5 miles away. A short time later, we were on our
> way, with no further problems. (so far!!)
>              Anyway, the reason I'm writing is to see if you could be of
any
> assistance. Although I did make it to Lansing for most of the 'party,' I
did
> miss out on a few things. I'm really hoping someone out there either has or
> knows where I could find a few things. I did drive in the 38 mile cruise
> Friday morning, but I missed the registration. Therefore, I also missed out
> on getting a "cruise" flag. Very disappointing. I was also unable to find
the
> 4x4 inch stickers with the new insignia and the centennial dates
> commemorating 100 years.  I would like to buy a few of these (how many??)
if
> I can find them. I guess they were selling for .25!! I'm also trying to
> locate a Lansing state Journal from Friday. I have the other three days,
but
> I missed the one with the broken curved dash on the front page. If you have
> anything, or know where I can purchase any of these things, PLEASE PLEASE
let
> me know. They are very important to me, as I have no real keepsakes of the
> trip. (except a radiator with a hole in it!!!) I also planned to buy a set
of
> the centennial coke bottles, but somehow I spaced it out! Anyway, the other
> things are more important to me. If you don't have a clue, but know someone
> else I could try, please let me know where I can contact them. Guess I
wasn't
> quite as on the ball as I should have been, but the car problems had my
> thought train 'kinda wandering. ANY help you can offer would be GREATLY
> appreciated. Thanks.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: NZ 403

From: harry <Km-Nuku@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: 403 olds

Hi, my names Dave and I am currently trying to rebuild a 77' 403 olds,
as I am in New Zealand there is little information or parts.
Can anyone tell me the do's and don'ts, or any info on how to go about
it.
Thanx
Dave


- --Don't feel like the lone ranger, Dave, 403 is kinda the bastard child of the
bunch it seems. Get a service manual for a car that came with the 403 if
possible. I have 78 Pontiac service manuals that cover the 403 in greater
detail than even the similar Olds manuals. Several literature vendors are
listed on www.442.com, I believe. There was one just mentioned here, too.

Got any specific questions? Tork values are listed on the web page I believe.
Other than that, and finding the parts [Kanter, PST, Mondello, etc.] it's just
a matter of refreshing worn surfaces as with any engine rebuild.
  You might consider using other SB heads to boost compression if your local
fuels allow it. What is your intended use, rear gear ratio, fuel octane rating?
Going for economy or for speed?
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:35:10 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

- ----------
> From: COUPEKING@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Cc: Oldsparts@aol.com
> Subject: Brothers auto
> Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 1:32 PM
> 
> Just thought I'd let you all know about my experiences with this outfit.
> 
> 3 months ago I spent ~$3.5K ordering  parts for a frame off of my '69 442
> conv. Was told  I'd have everything in 7-10 days. After 3 wks I began
calling
> and emailing them.
> Impossible to get through to them on the phone. Didn't respond to my
emails.
> When I did get through, I was promised a callback which never ( multiple
> times ) came.
> 
> Lots of excuses--  the supplier didn't have the quarters, Lansing, the
UPS
> strike..
> but never a good excuse for their lack of responsiveness. As we all see
daily
> on this board, it does not take much to respond to email. Or fax.
> 
> I'm still awaiting my new inner fenders.
> 3 months 
> A Mickey Mouse operation,  Brothers Auto.
> My 2 cents.
> Peter Sliskovich/Coupe King


	I have dealt with both Brothers and the GM/MOPAR guys in
Georgia. The Georgia Guys actually would not sell me certain parts because
they found out they were junk and stopped shipping a certain door panel
until the supplier came up with the proper nail type panel-to-door
fasteners
as a result of my complaint. Some people just don't believe in return
business.

				The General

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:43:12 -0700
From: harry <Km-Nuku@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: NZ 403

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> From: harry <Km-Nuku@xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: 403 olds
> 
> Hi, my names Dave and I am currently trying to rebuild a 77' 403 olds,
> as I am in New Zealand there is little information or parts.
> Can anyone tell me the do's and don'ts, or any info on how to go about
> it.
> Thanx
> Dave
> 
> --Don't feel like the lone ranger, Dave, 403 is kinda the bastard child of the
> bunch it seems. Get a service manual for a car that came with the 403 if
> possible. I have 78 Pontiac service manuals that cover the 403 in greater
> detail than even the similar Olds manuals. Several literature vendors are
> listed on www.442.com, I believe. There was one just mentioned here, too.
> 
> Got any specific questions? Tork values are listed on the web page I believe.
> Other than that, and finding the parts [Kanter, PST, Mondello, etc.] it's just
> a matter of refreshing worn surfaces as with any engine rebuild.
>   You might consider using other SB heads to boost compression if your local
> fuels allow it. What is your intended use, rear gear ratio, fuel octane rating?
> Going for economy or for speed?
> --
> Chris  B. Witt
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
Kia Ora Chris
Thanx for replying
Intended use?  currently in a CF Bedford van ( similar in size and shape
to a late 70's GMC Van )
Gear ratio - I think is a 12 bolt olds. We have a lot of Chev 12 bolts
around, this is similar but has a bigger ring gear.  Our performance
parts workshops don't have any idea or info on it.  This is the same for
the 403, the only listing for parts are 350 petrol, 350 diesel and the
455.  Our fuel octane rating is 91 & 96 unleaded.
And of course if I can, I am going for speed.
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 97 18:54:33 -0500
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Re: 69 W-31 Conv.

Robert Schinkel writes:
>At the local cruise night yesterdayt a gentleman approached me about the
>sale of a 69 cutlass convertible with what as he desribed a W-31 engine but
>with an aluminum intake 
>
>Could a late in the year 69 come with a 70 engine
>
>And were there convertible W-31's in 69
>
>He described the car as Gold with gold interior,  manual steering Manual
>disc brakes, 3.42 posi,  4 gear
>and convertible

Robert,

My book says that there were a total of 26 Cutlass Convert's with the 
W-31 package for 1969. It also happened to be the ONLY year that a W-31 
could be had as a Rag Top... A very, very, rare W-Machine!

As far as the engine goes, I would presume that they came with the 
aluminum W-31 intake and that it should be the 325 HP engine. It should 
have that huge harmonic balancer by the way, an easy way to tell a fake 
if the motor hasn't been redone...


Michael R. Hall: OCA #17903                    Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net

1971 Oldsmobile 442    
1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:21:07 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: List not working?

MROTHE wrote:
> 
> Hello to anyone that is on the list who is still getting e-mail.  I am not,
> and I don't know why.  If you are reading this, please e-mail me
> personally, to help me troubleshoot.  If it  is not the list, then it must
> be me.
> 
> Mike Rothe
Mike,

Hope you get this.  I was wondering yesterday what happened to all the
people myself.  Hope you had a great Labor Day.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O

Just parted out a '69 Cutlass post, and the car had an aluminum
spoiler on the trunk that looks an awful lot like the one on pictures 
I've seen of the '69 H/O.  The car was NOT an H/O. There are no 
identifying codes or marks that I could see on it.

Anybody know how to ID this unit as a factory Hurst unit or not?
If you've got knowledge or interest in it, email me directly at
Coupe King@aol.com.  Love to trade it for some of the bits I need 
for my '69 442 resto.
Peter Sliskovich
San Pedro, CA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:37:16 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet

mrada wrote:
> 
> Don Sowers wrote:
> >
> > Boy am I glad to receive your message on the server.  I did not have a
> > single message come across and thought I had pushed the wrong button or
> > had bad breath or something.  At least I know the mail today was really
> > slow for some reason.  How was the weather in your part of the world
> > today?  It was close to 90 and sunny here in central Kentucky.  Played
> 
> In So. California, LA area, it has been about 85-ish.  Not too bad when
> you
> drive in an A/C car! :-)
> 
> > in the state class E softball tournament and about died but finished
> > fifth.  Should have won it because our two losses were due to self
> > inflicted stupidity.  Had a good time though.  Found out Friday my wife
> > did not have cancer again so it is hard to not be happy.  Did see a
> 
> That is good to hear.
> 
> > 70-72 Cutlass (color Tennessee orange, ugh) going up I-75 that looked in
> 
> Now that is interesting.  Tennessee Orange?
> 
> > good shape.
> >
> > Hope the Labor Day weekend is going well for you.
> 
> Oh it is going ok.  I get a little upset when I see good people dying at
> such young ages.  I was upset too when Karen Carpenter died.
> 
> Later....
> 
> Chris Sparks
Couldn't agree with you more about the accident.  I hope they charge
them with manslaughter or something to slow down the insanity.  It is
really sad the pursuit of a dollar (supposedly lots of them for the
right/wrong ones) allows this type of personal violation to occur.  Just
because you are a public figure does not preclude your right to privacy
and the right to live out of the microscopic inspection of the media. 
The whole thing is sad, both the accident and the factors that caused
it.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville,Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:16:45 -0400
From: "John Richmond" <richmond@tir.com>
Subject: Fw: Drag car buildup advice needed

>  the only bad thing is brakes.  the 72, i think has all wheel drum
brakes?

My 72 has discs, it was an option. 


John Richmond
richmond@tir.com
Warren, MI
72 442/455

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:16:03 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

 Gregg,

That's right.  The first F-85/Cutlass had a unibody.  That was from 1961-63.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>mjones@dragon.gleep.com wrote:
>>
>> I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
>> unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
>> and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
>> cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?
>
>Maybe the person that told you that had the 64-72 A bodies confused with
>the early sixties when the F-85 was in the same family as the corvair.
>Weren't they unibody?  I think all the 64-72 F-85s had full frames.  My
>Cutlass Supreme and Vista Cruiser sure do.
>
>Greg Pruett
>`72 Vista Cruiser
>`67 Cutlass Supreme
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:18:01 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Sept JWO...

 I haven't gotten mine - it hasn't come through southern customs - but I
can't wait.  I'd love to see this article by Lisa.  Congratulations Lisa.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>Got the 9/97 JWO a couple days ago... seems there's a nice article on the
67
>model year by none other than...
>
>Lisa Madsen!
>
>Allright, published author!
>--
>Chris  B. Witt
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 21:16:47 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a 
unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs 
and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties 
cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?

     Offhand, I'd believe the full frame you saw with your own eyes 
     rather than what you "had been told".  Seriously, all 64-72 (and 
     beyond) A-bodies were full frame cars.  The confusion may come 
     from the fact that the 61-63 Cutlasses _were_ unibody.
     
     Joe (vying for the Chris Witt Tact Award) Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

     

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:29:02 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Drag car buildup advice needed

If you do wish to race seriously, then the drum brakes are the way
to go. You can adjust them real high - no drag on shoes - and pick up a few
tenths.

			The General


 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:30:41 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Solid Main Web 403's again?

>OK, folks, I have a person who claims for sure to know of a SMW 403 motor in
>drag use. Seems to know his stuff. I await photos with bated breath.
>  Here's some of what he says...

>> > > Hello, I think I might have some useful info for you -
>> > >     I recently built and installed a 1977 403 that does indeed have the
>> > > solid main web into a friend's car. This block was without a doubt a
403 s
>olid
>> > > web block, and was produced in 1977. This block was the only of its
type t
>hat
>> > > have ever had contact with; The motor is currently in a race car that
runs
>> > > 11.30's (on motor). I will do my best to get in touch with my friend
to se
>e if
>> > > the motor might possibly be for sale. But rest assured, there were indeed
>403
>> > > blocks manufactured in '77 that had the solid main web. I will
contact you

Great, Chris, here I've given up on finding a SMW 403, and now YOU come up
with some potential evidence that they exist... Now I'll have to go
scrounging for those 403's again... ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:30:38 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 403 olds

>Hi, my names Dave and I am currently trying to rebuild a 77' 403 olds,
>as I am in New Zealand there is little information or parts.
>Can anyone tell me the do's and don'ts, or any info on how to go about
>it.

What kind of car are you putting it into? And what are you looking for, a
stock rebuild, a mild performance engine, a hot-rod, or a pure dragstrip
car? A couple of us on the list have built these up, and can give you some
help, resources, etc.

I got the absolute best price on a rebuild kit for my 403 from Performance
Suspension Technology in New Jersey. The 403 is basically a strong-built
motor, though its stock camshaft and compression work against it putting out
the power that it can.

Post some specifics on what you're looking for from this engine, and we'll
help the best we can.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:30:29 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI

<snip>
>>5000                 34
>
>Is the above listings total advance?  I'm assuming
>that total advance is = mechanical advance (set w/
>timing light) + centrifical advance (springs) @RPM +
>Vacuum advance @ vacuum.  Is that the right formula?

I don't think that the total vacuum advance is calculated into a regular
distributor curve. Just like hp, it would be the advance as measured at
wide-open throttle, where vacuum advance doesn't come into play.

>The distributor I just picked up came w/ a card, with
>these specs:
<snip>
>Using the above formula, with a 12 degrees
>of mechanical advance set, at 3000 rpm and 18 inches
>of vacuum I would have 52 degrees total advance.  Sounds
>rather high to me.

Not really; cars have over 60' advance with the vacuum included. Under
part-throttle, low-load situations, the A/F mixture is spread all over the
cylinders, so you have to start that stuff burning well in advance if you're
to have it all burnt up by the time the piston reaches the top of the
stroke, so you crank in lots of advance. Usually you run as much vacuum as
you can before you start pinging; the exact number is irrelevant, since the
pinging will depend upon the state of your engine, quality of fuel, driving
habits and conditions, etc. Two identical engines in two different people's
cars will require different amounts of vacuum advance, though the ideal
"distributor curve" might be the same.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:30:44 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: 68-69 442 Body Data Plates

>     I now have Oldsmobile factory documentation of the use of 336XX body 
>     data plates on 344XX VIN 442s in 1968 and 1969.  In addition, it isn't 
>     only 442s which had this discrepancy!
<snip>
>     4-4-2 HIGH PERFORMANCE V-8
>     
>     Convertible                4467           *68-33667
>     Sports Coupe               4477           *68-33677
>     Holiday Coupe              4487           *68-33687
<snip>
>     Note that not only does the 442 (or 4-4-2, in Fisher Body lingo...but 
>     let's not resurrect _that_ thread!) get a body code that doesn't match 
>     the VIN, but so do the six cylinder F-85 and Cutlass models.  In 
>     researching this further, it appears that Fisher Body only had four 
>     different configurations for the bodies they produced for Oldsmobile:
>     F-85, Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme, and Vista Cruiser.  Naturally, Fisher 
>     Body didn't care if the car would be getting a six or an eight, as all 
>     the changes were in the chassis.  The only differences which mattered 
>     to them were in the interior trim and exterior chrome.  This also 
>     applies to the 442, which (in 68-69) had Cutlass interior panels and 
>     exterior chrome trim.

Excellent research, Joe! I was sure that the discrepancy was due to the real
purpose of those numbers, mainly being getting the right parts to the right
place in the assembly line. We sometimes live under the impression that the
sole reason for body plates, VIN's and build sheets was so that we could
authenticate the authenticity of our cars thirty years down the road...

Oddly enough, the '69 Shop manual lists the "Chassis Designation" and "Sales
and Scheduling Code" as basically the same, and says that the body plate
should have the "Division Series" number in it, which it lists as "34400"
for the 442. Oh, well, just goes to show that you can't go by just one
factory publication...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:30:46 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Big small block

>        I'm using 350 pistons in my 400. On the way back up and i've noticed
>the skirt length is approx a 1/2" shorter than the .030 pistons I removed.
>Any need for major concern? 

Might contribute to cylinder taper, might not. Probably not a problem unless
your piston-cylinder wall clearances are loose. Are you running forged or
cast pistons? How much will you be driving this car?

>Also, My uncle (1967 state King of the Hill
>Winner)says I should have my block line bored and deck height checked even
>if I'm not tracking the car. His reasoning is due to main bearing wear I
>found upon tear down. I would value your thoughts as well as others out there.

Well, unless you've worn all the way *through* the bearing, then the size of
the main bore will not be affected. The main reason for line boring and
decking a block is to compensate for "core shift", where the block's shape
changes slightly with age due to the warping from the repeated heating and
cooling of everyday driving. Your machinist should be able to check your
existing bores and deck, and see if they are up to factory spec, or if they
need to be bored or honed, or surfaced. You may need it, you may not; your
machinist should be able to tell you, though.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 21:32:47 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: 69 W-31 Conv.

Michael R. Hall wrote: 

My book says that there were a total of 26 Cutlass Convert's with the 
W-31 package for 1969. It also happened to be the ONLY year that a W-31 
could be had as a Rag Top... A very, very, rare W-Machine!

     Yep, I've got the same book.  Be careful, though, as I have about a 
     half-dozen different Olds 442/W-machine books, and every single one of 
     them has typos of one sort of another.  For example one book lists 69 
     W-32 production as 272 in one place and the more commonly accepted 297 
     a few pages later.  Even the dealer parts book of the time has typos 
     in it, as evidenced by the errata sheet that came with it.  When these 
     same errors show up in more than one book, I've got to assume that 
     everyone is copying from everyone else.
     
As far as the engine goes, I would presume that they came with the 
aluminum W-31 intake and that it should be the 325 HP engine. It should 
have that huge harmonic balancer by the way, an easy way to tell a fake 
if the motor hasn't been redone...

     Nope, sorry.  The aluminum intakes (W-30 or W-31) were not produced 
     until the 1970 model year.  The 68 Ram Rod 350 and the 69 W-31 both 
     had cast iron intakes.  Is it possible that the car is a late 
     production unit with a 70 intake?  Sure.  Stranger things have 
     happened.  The easy test is to check the build date code on the 
     body data plate on the driver's side of the firewall.  Early 
     production => intake probably not installed at the factory.  
     Production after, say, June/July 69 => factory installation of 
     intake is possible (but still unlikely).  More likely is that 
     somewhere along the way (the car _is_ 28 years old!) the owner got 
     his/her hands on an aluminum 70 manifold and installed it.  Keep in 
     mind that for a number of years, these intakes were also available 
     from the parts counter (dontcha wish you new then what you knew now 
     about what parts to buy?)
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 21:35:22 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O

Peter Sliskovich wrote:

Just parted out a '69 Cutlass post, and the car had an aluminum spoiler 
on the trunk that looks an awful lot like the one on pictures I've seen 
of the '69 H/O.  The car was NOT an H/O. There are no identifying codes 
or marks that I could see on it.
     
Anybody know how to ID this unit as a factory Hurst unit or not?

     Sorry, but the 69 H/O units (as well as the 70-72 442 units) 
     were fiberglass, not aluminum.  This one's aftermarket.
     
     By the way, got any other parts left?
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

Peter Sliskovich/Coupe King,
 
  Regarding Brothers Automotive,
    I thought I was the only one whoe has been waiting three months for my
parts.  I ordered thier OAI air cleaner (550.00) big ones, as well as a bunch
of other small parts.  This was back in June, three months ago.  As you have
experienced all I have gotten is excuses and still no parts.  I don't know if
I should cancell or just bear with it.

   I should have relized this when I went to them with the possibily of an
order totaling around 8K.  I was looking for the best parts for the best
price.  Everyone else was offering good discounts.  Not these guys,  they
actually told me that they don't need my buisness and that the book prices is
the best I would get.  Of course I went to Year One, who gave me wholesale
pricing, + free shipping.  I had the whole order in less than a week.

   I chose to order some parts from Brothers because they seemed to be the
only one who carried these.

  Boy I hope their not on this list, I may never get my parts now !!!!!!!

SRD
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:54:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Springfield 98

The 1998 Nationals are being held over July 15th thru th 18th, 1998.

The Host OCA Club is ILL. Valley Olds Chapter
Contact Bill &/or Joanne Wagman
816 13th, st. 
Rockford,  ILL.  61104
(815) 398-6698

The host hotel if the Crowne Plaza
(217) 529-7777
Alternate Hotel right next door is the Holiday Inne
(217) 529-7171


All of the above is in the Sept. 97 JWO, which I just received.
I have made my reservations a few weeks ago.

I also saw in the JWO that Joe Mondello has a 70 W30 VC, and a 71 442 for
sale.
Both cars combined total $ 87,0000.00..........wow...........

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:55:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O

what parts do you need for your 442?, i deal in parts 68-72.
 w30442cs@aol.com     steven.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:16:28 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Sept JWO...

>>Allright, published author!

Well my my my, when I talked to Peggy Casteele quite a while ago I was
*amazed* she remembered I'd submitted this quite some time beforehand.  Now
I'd forgotten about it.  Despite being published  in other forums as well,
its best when it covers my first love - Oldsmobiles :-)

By the way, California customs take much longer then Southern ones Bill.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:21:26 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Julian Show

Too bad- if I don't meet Erick at this coming show, I'll be completely
convinced I'll never get to meet anyone on the list :-)


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:19:50 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Paint Codes

I'm much obliged Jim, this oughta answer this gentleman's question.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:24:30 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: lansing and misc

At 02:43 AM 9/1/97 PDT, you wrote:
>Well, I decided to scrap the digest idea and go to real time.  I don't like
the way digests are done (personal taste) and I'm finally caught up on the
last 8 digests.
>
>Let's see...What I bought at Lansing
>Well, actually not enough if that's possible.
>--I bought a couple 69 W-31 articles and a W-31 ad, all from 1969 magazines
for $25
<Snip>
>Jim Chermack, you actually found a 69-72 NOS rear wing for $125??!?!??!?!?!
Man, I saw someone who had one for $425 or there abouts.  I must have missed
this one or I would have bought it easily.  You wouldn't be selling it would ya?
>

>Chris Smetana
>Terre Haute, IN
>chris@abcs.com
>69 W-31 plus others
>
Chris

        Nope. It's going on the kids 72 442. He's be begging me for one of
these for months. Got him off my back for awhile. Sorry!

Jim Chermack
67 442 W-30
66 442 Post Coupe
67 Cutlass Supreme Post Coupe
70 Cutlass SX W-32
72 442 (350)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:37:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geo679@aol.com
Subject: Re: 403 olds

a 403 and rocket 350 are prety much the same motor. the 403 has bigger
pistons and crank and pushrod displacement. the 350 is a faster motor by
about 5 horse power. the parts are pretty much the same cause the block is
the same exact size externally, so anything a 350 has u can do for a 403, so
don't worry about messing anything up.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:54:23 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <ferguson@themall.net>
Subject: Door Hinge Rebuild

The driver's door on my '69 cutlass seems to have worn hinge bushings as
well as a broken detent roller.  I have noticed that most of the catalogs
as well as the local parts store (the HELP line), sell pin and bushing kits
at a quite reasonable price.

What concerns me is that the pins in my doors seem to have deformed ends
presumably to stop them from comming out whereas the new ones do not.

How does one go about removing these pins and do the new pins require any
modification?  Any other hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.


Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@themall.net
(818) 241-9350

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 01:25:16 -0500
From: Shang <shoover@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Door Hinge Rebuild

Lloyd Ferguson wrote:
> 
> The driver's door on my '69 cutlass seems to have worn hinge bushings as
> well as a broken detent roller.  I have noticed that most of the catalogs
> as well as the local parts store (the HELP line), sell pin and bushing kits
> at a quite reasonable price.
> 
> What concerns me is that the pins in my doors seem to have deformed ends
> presumably to stop them from comming out whereas the new ones do not.
> 
> How does one go about removing these pins and do the new pins require any
> modification?  Any other hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Lloyd Ferguson
> ferguson@themall.net
> (818) 241-9350

On the kit that I have (from Year One) I had to grind off the
deformation to get the roller off, then I cut the pedestal (the part
that the roller actually rolled on) down to where the base of the roller
was. I had to drill out that section, tap it, and the replacement roller
assembly screwed into that hole.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:55:51 -0400
From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

> 3 months ago I spent ~$3.5K ordering  parts for a frame off of my '69 442
> conv. Was told  I'd have everything in 7-10 days. After 3 wks I began
calling
> and emailing them.
> Impossible to get through to them on the phone. Didn't respond to my
emails.
> When I did get through, I was promised a callback which never ( multiple
> times ) came.
> Lots of excuses--  the supplier didn't have the quarters, Lansing, the
UPS
> strike..
> but never a good excuse for their lack of responsiveness. As we all see
daily
> on this board, it does not take much to respond to email. Or fax.
> 
Oh how true.  If they have the stuff in stock, no problemo.  But if it is
ordered, or they are backlogged,  whew!  Hard to get stuff from them.  Now
the guys there are friendly and helpful, but when you run a business, the
customer may not ALWAYS be right, but if you don't have customers, then you
won't stay in business......

I'm not in a GREAT BIG HURRY for the parts anyway.  But that's me.  If you
were waiting on that NOS bumper you ordered from them 3 months ago to make
your pride and joy road ready, wouldn't you rather have spent $20 more and
had the parts from Year One in a couple of days??  I think it would help if
they were up front about what kind of time frame they are talking about in
getting in backordered parts, and if they say they will call you back,
well.....perception is everything when doing business.  If you perceive
them to not care about their customers because they won't call back, then
you will take your business elsewhere.   I know Dave Paulison here on the
list probably would like to kill me cause I've been so busy I just haven't
had time to get those '69 CS moldings for him like I said I would.  (It
will happen Dave!!!)

Anyway, you get my point.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #829
********************************

