To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #831


oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, September 3 1997     Volume 01 : Number 831



GTO Rear End
Touching up heat control and etc.
Motion Olds - MCR
Re: Spam & Closed list?
Cheap 600 HP 455?
oldsmobile-digest V1 ª829
Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
Re: GTO Rear End
Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Re: starter problem
Re: drag engine buildup advice needed
My 455 Cutlass project.. (Was: drag engine buildup advice needed)
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
Re: HEI Conversion results
Re: starter problem
Re: Say what? (was Re: 403 olds)
Re: Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
Re: starter problem
Re: Touching up heat control and etc.
Re: 73 Carb
Re: Julian Show
Re: 70 Paint Codes
RE: 70 Paint Codes
Re: Show chrome, who does it?
Re[2]: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
HEI conversion
Re: Motion Olds - MCR
Introduction and questions (long)
Tire and wheel size
oldsmobile-digest V1 ª830
subscribe oldsmobile
Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup
ADMIN: Re: Spam & Closed list?
Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Rarest 88 and 98?
Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Re: Vendors (Not to Long)
I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge
Re: GTO Rear End
Re: HEI conversion
WARNING  (was: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!)
Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge
Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!
Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertiblev
<none>
Pardon my ignorance...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:27:14 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: GTO Rear End

 Got the 3.23 posi from a 70 GTO transplanted into the 69 this week.
Everything bolted up as if it was supposed to be there.
The better ratio really perked up the 350 compared to the old 3.08, but
better yet; no more vibration!!!
By my calculations, my speedo should be off by 5% and read higher than
actual???  Would somone please confirm this, my brain goes into a tailspin
on this one?

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:37:40 -0500
From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Subject: Touching up heat control and etc.

I've been trying to touch up the heater controls on my 68 and I can find
a good match.  I've tried two paint pens but neither worked.  One was
the testors flat black, which was too flat.  The other was just labeled
black and it was too glossy.  Is the correct color semi-gloss black?
Does anybody know of any touch-up paint that I can use?

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:49:03 -0500
From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@pitnet.net>
Subject: Motion Olds - MCR

The new Muscle Car Review (Oct/Nov) has an article about Baldwin/Motion
cars.  Of course it is geared towards the ch*vy stuff but there is
mention of the Motion Oldsmobile cars.    I belive there has been talk
on the list about the Motion Oldsmobile cars before.  Anyway, one of the
pictures is of the Motion newsletter which announces 2 new club cars
(used to promote Motion in racing) The cars are a 442 and an F-85.
There is a picture of the 442, a 68.  There is also mention that the
Oldsmobiles are a pilot project with Motion-Markowitz Oldsmobile.  These
Oldsmobile, with or without ram air can be purchased through the club at
special discount prices.  Sign me up!

Does anybody have any more information on these cars?  Did any ever
survive?  This is the most I have ever seen on these cars (and it is
just from a picture).

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 21:50:56 -0400
From: Pat McDermott <kor@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: Spam & Closed list?

I haven't noticed any spam lately, which is a great thing. I remember a
while back getting a bunch. If the spam stopped  because the list is
closed, Great. Does the list being closed inhibit others from joining?
When did it close? I truly enjoy  this list and appreciate all Greg's
efforts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:53:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Cheap 600 HP 455?

Forwarded message:
> From: Ponyeater@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Olds performance parts
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to receive a list of your parts and
> kits that
> you offer.  I am looking for a kit that has a down-to-earth price but make
> that
> Rocket out of my 70 455 engine.  Don't laugh but I am looking for 550-600
> "streetable" Olds horsepower (in a affordable kit form no less).  Also I am
> looking
> for a set of D\DA heads off of a 400 Olds.  If you can help at all I would
> appreciate
> any technical assistance (***ESPECIALLY any Olds articles you may have!!!)
> that you can give.  One particular article comes to mind, Popular Hot
> Rodding,
> August or September 1989, dealing with hot build-up tips for the 455.  Again,
> I
> thank you for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Whattyou guys think?
Be sure to CC: your replies to him!

Aren't "600HP 455", "Streetable", and "affordable" kinda the points of the
engine triangle: you can pick any *2* you like....?

that's more or less what I told him...
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: 2 Sep 1997 18:07:32 PST
From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª829

OL>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:00:18 -0400
OL>From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
OL>Subject: Re: GM A-body construction

OL>- ----------
OL>> From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
OL>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
OL>> Subject: GM A-body construction
OL>> Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 11:20 AM
OL>>
OL>> I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
OL>> unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
OL>> and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
OL>> cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?
OL>>
OL>
OL>Tell your friend to stop smokin that stuff he is on !!!!!!!!!
OL>All a bodies had full frames. F-bodies had X-bodies had sub-frames.


OL>> Also I have been noticing that sometimes my oil pressure gauge will
OL>> flutter when the engine is warmed up, is this something that I should
OL>> look into seriously?  The flutter is maybe +/- 1 PSI, and the lowest PSI
OL>> I've seen the pump put out (which was at idle) was 7 as per the service
OL>> manual.
OL>>
OL>> These fluctuations are normal - the sender is not that accurate


This is a mechanical gauge, not an electric one.

Mike Jones
'78 Olds 88

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:46:12 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!

 Thank you Charley as usual.  Greg is the one abused here & I only have to
delete a couple of things.  If Greg can't get this taken care of, then I
know that he did his level best & I am grateful.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  Greg, is there anything we can help yoiu with on this thing except not
to reply or to "unsubscribe" to their list?
>
>Back on subject, give Greg some space there, if it's possible he'll get
>it worked out, if not, s**t happens.  We'll still have a great ~free~
>list that's full of information and friends, and that's what's really
>important.  Right?
>
>
>             Charley

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:51:23 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

Greg dont use oven cleaner or bead blasting! Blasting will make it look
good but it will be rough and all dirt will show and not come off. Oven
cleaner and acid dipping will dis color it. Might try a wheel cleaner
tht is used on painted wheels   Good luck

Terry Teague
68 Delta Custom

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:21:41 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

Hi all,

I need some assistance.  The 68 442 (spare one) has electric windows
and the front driver's window had been inoperable, or so I thought,
for a while now.  I was driving the car home, after getting it finally
smogged, and just by chance hit the down switch and it came to life.
The window seemed to go up and down.  I thought, "great", I now don't
have to suffocate in this car while driving.  When I got home the
window decided not to go back up!  Doh!  How in the world do I get this
window back up?  I have pulled the panel and yanked on the glass.
No good.  I have tried switching the wiring around, thinking I had a
bad switch, to no avail.  I am panicing now since I have an open
car that anyone can get in to.  We won't even mention rain!

Is there anyone out there who can help me here.  I am desperate.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:11:03 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

At 09:44 PM 9/2/97 -0300, you wrote:
>
>This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape but
>could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead
>blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or
>warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?
>
>Thanks in advance...
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

Greg

        The best way I've found to do these are to blast them with glass
beads. It keeps the finish more like it was originally.
My $.02

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:29:44 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: GTO Rear End

M&D Gillespie wrote:
>
>  Got the 3.23 posi from a 70 GTO transplanted into the 69 this week.
> Everything bolted up as if it was supposed to be there.
> The better ratio really perked up the 350 compared to the old 3.08, but
> better yet; no more vibration!!!
> By my calculations, my speedo should be off by 5% and read higher than
> actual???  Would somone please confirm this, my brain goes into a tailspin
> on this one?

Yep.  I get 5% too.  Assuming your speedo was correct before the rearend
change you will be going about 68 when the speedo indicates 65 and 79
when it indicates 75.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:48:34 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

At 06:21 PM 9/2/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I need some assistance.  The 68 442 (spare one) has electric windows
>and the front driver's window had been inoperable, or so I thought,
>for a while now.  I was driving the car home, after getting it finally
>smogged, and just by chance hit the down switch and it came to life.
>The window seemed to go up and down.  I thought, "great", I now don't
>have to suffocate in this car while driving.  When I got home the
>window decided not to go back up!  Doh!  How in the world do I get this
>window back up?  I have pulled the panel and yanked on the glass.
>No good.  I have tried switching the wiring around, thinking I had a
>bad switch, to no avail.  I am panicing now since I have an open
>car that anyone can get in to.  We won't even mention rain!
>
>Is there anyone out there who can help me here.  I am desperate.
>
>Chris Sparks
>
Chris

        Check the connection terminals on the motor. They are probably
corroded. If you got the time,  the right rear is the same motor. Swap them.
Yes you could have a bad switch. You can tear the back of it apart and
sodier the connections if they are bad.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:57:55 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <ferguson@themall.net>
Subject: Re: starter problem

>When I bought my 72 cutlass it had a flex fan on the motor. The previous
>owner said he put it on because he had trouble starting the car after he
>drove it for a while. It would start fine after being driven. I replaced
>the flex fan with the original. Now I am having starting the car after
>driving it for half hour or so. Let it cool for 30 to 45 mins it will
>spin rite over. Previous owner said he put new starter on just before I
>bought it. Anyone ever had the same problem? Anyone offer a solution?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Jim Helle

If you hadn't said that it had a new starter I would say to check the rear
bushing in the starter.  I have seen quite a few cars where it is scored
and causes just the problem you described.  I once replaced a battery and
cables at a service center's reccomendation when this was the real problem.



Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@themall.net
(818) 241-9350

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:00:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: drag engine buildup advice needed

In a message dated 97-09-02 13:13:55 EDT, you write:

<<
 If you were planning on running 9's, then the 502 would be the way to go.
 There's lots of heads, intakes, cams, etc. out there to make 650-700hp with
 that motor. Of course, it would cost you around $7000 to do so with the
 Chevy; to do the same might cost you around $1000-$3000 more to do with an
 Olds, though it could be done. Bottom end strength would be the limiting
 factor, and I imagine you'd be stretching the limits of the word
 "streetability" with either engine.

 OTOH, if you want a semi-streetable car to run in the 12's, for a reasonable
 price, I think the Olds 455/'80 Cutlass package would be perhaps the most
 cost-effective way to go. Build an engine to the specs that others (Robert
 Schinkel et al.) have suggested, use the good factory parts, and you'll be
 in the 12's.
 _______________________________________________________
 Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
  >>

I agree w/all except the idea that the 502 motor would put the car into 9's.
 To get a mid-80's car into the 9's is gonna take more HP than the 502 will
put out IMHO.  We're talking a motor running nitrous, or a BIG monster motor.
 Otherwise you'd be talking about tearing everything out of the car for
weight savings.  You'd be best going with a 455 prepped good, and shooting
for 11-12's with the 80's Cutlass.  It'd be reasonably obtainable, and would
still be acceptable as a street car, even a daily driver if you don't mind
the mileage problem.

As a point of ref., this weekend at the local dragstrip there was a 4000 lb
car running 8.8-9.0's consistantly, but it was running 1400 HP on nitro....
 Granted a mid-80's Cutlass is not 4000 lbs., but 600-700 HP (which is half
the HP) on a crate motor still wouldn't motivate that car enough to pull 9's.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:00:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: My 455 Cutlass project.. (Was: drag engine buildup advice needed)

In keeping with the "I'm building a street/drag car" I'll give an update on
my "project", and some observations which came to light during a recent trip
to the local dragstrip.

First, I have an '81 Cutlass that is getting ready for an engine replacement.
 It will be the recipient of a 455 transplant (the donor being a '70
Cutlass).  I am planning on keeping the TH-350C (lock-up type convertor)
trans behind it (what was in the car, and it should be durable enough for
street with some occasional hard use), and installing a shift kit for the
trans to help it live some (along with a complete rebuild, including
clutches, and steels).

The main use will be a driver (I'm ignoring that gas mileage thing.... :),
with some occasional "romps" to put these "kids in mommy's car" in their
rightful place (beware Mustang, and Camaro owners....:).  I will rebuild the
bottom end, and providing no major problems, will reuse the pistons, crank,
and con-rods, while replacing the bearings, and rings.  I'm undecided on
whether I'll do a complete job (bottom end, and top end, valves), or do the
bottom, and do this in stages.  This will depend on the state of the lower
end of the block.

I'll have dual exhaust, find a nice useable cam (lots of torque, keep it at a
reasonable RPM), and a good intake manifold, plus use a Rochester Quadrajet
on it (driver, need some street manners).  Essentially, I'm going with a
clean, slightly modified 455 from a '70 car, which should put out a good
say.....  400-450 HP... (stock w/4bbl for '70 is rated at 360 HP./500
ft-lbs.).  With some decent gears, and a little suspension working, I'd bet
the car will be in the 12's with little problem.  Come spring, I'll give it a
test.  Once done, I'd like a "day at the track" just to see what she'll do.

Cost should be minimal, $300 for good, clean running 455, plus parts and
labor, all done by myself.  With a little bit of hunting, etc., I bet I can
put the motor together for $1000, or so, using myself as the labor (I sure
ain't payin' someone else to have fun building my motor!!!).

On to my observations.  Keep it simple...  There seemed to be alot of guys
with money to blow, and no clue of what to do to make it work.  Example 1,
mid-80's Malibu w/dual 4 bbl., and tunnel ram... but only runnning 12's at
best....  hmmm.... a bit overfed....  Second... a Vega, with huge slicks on
the back.... hmmm. oughtta run fast.. NOT!  clocks some mid 12's also (so why
the big tires...).  The first guy would most likely run better w/a large
single carb, forget the current set-up.  Second guy probably had problems
with traction off the line, and rather than learn how to "hook" the rear, he
just put on big tires....  Course it doesn't spin the tires, but it doesn't
go anywhere either.... (this example came across when watching a big 4000 lb.
Impala (w/1400 HP. to play with) running 8.8's on 10.5 in. wide tires...).
 Start at the basics, and move on from there...

These were just some things I noticed while "watching" what these guys were
doing for a couple of hours.  Want more "info"... go hit the local strip
nearby, and pay close attention to what the fast guys are doing, and what the
slow guys are doing (mostly wrong that is...).  Any input from some racers
that are on the list?  I know there are some guys on the list that like to
hit the strip.

Just some thoughts...
Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:56:44 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape but
> could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead
> blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or
> warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?
>
Glass bead the aluminum. It comes out looking new, and gives it that
"just cast" texture.  DO NOT!! DO NOT!! DO NOT!! use oven cleaner, or
acidic or caustic dipping on aluminum.  Oven cleaner is not compatible
with aluminum, since it is made up of mostly NaOH, or sodium hydroxide,
which is a strong caustic.  Even 10% solution would corrode the
surfaces, not to mention leave an aluminum hydroxide pasty waste film.
It would spell trouble.  Acids- if it is extremely weak acid, like
diluted citric, or something, it may clean stains, but here again, you
run the risk of damage.  Glass beading is the way to go on this, you'll
be amazed at the results.  While caustic dipping is OK for cast iron,
avoid its use on aluminum.

My 2 Lincoln heads,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:02:19 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: HEI Conversion results

>Just before Lansing I bought a rebuilt HEI from the Carb Shop.  Supposedly a
<snip>
>Anyway, its in and I am impressed.  Noticeably better power up to around 
3kRPM,
>and idles much much smoother, such that I can idle comfortably at around
<snip>
>still trying to work out the tuning with the unit.  It came with a report of
>the exact curve characteristics of the distributor, but as shipped, it had way
>too much vacuum advance and the installed springs also were too aggressive.
>Right now, with 2 medium springs, 14 deg initial and no vacuum it drives fine
>with no pinging.  Hooking up the vacuum advance and turning it all the way
>counterclockwise is still giving me too much vacuum, such that I get part
>throttle pinging.  And yet, even this minimal amount of vacuum adv seems to
>make a big difference down low--more torque.  I'm reluctant to give that up,
>although the pinging at highway speeds is really annoying.  I'm going to have
>to play with this guy some more.  Will let you allknow the results..

The Crane adjustable vacuum advance kit includes a plate that limits the
amount of vacuum advance that the cannister can add. I found that I could
reduce the rate or point at which the vacuum advance kicked in, but I was
unable to eliminate the pinging at part throttle until I reduced the
*amount* of vacuum advance, probably by about 10' or so from the maximum it
would add.

If the Carb Shop did not provide a limiter plate (and if they don't offer to
send you one when you call to ask about the tuneability of their HEI
units...), and you don't want to spring the $22 for a whole Crane kit, you
can probably make one from a small sheet of heavy-guage steel, or even a
washer. Basically, it mounts under one of the screws holding down the vacuum
advance unit, and forms a kind of "stop" to limit the travel of the rod that
extends from the vacuum advance cannister. If you reduce the amount this rod
can travel, you reduce the amount of vacuum advance that can be added; this
limiter plate actually moves the starting point of the rod closer to the
canniser itself (hence you have to adjust the initial timing with each
adjustment), thereby reducing the rod's travel. The plate in the Crane kit
has a kind of "serrated" edge, and you adjust the amount by loosening the
screw, and turning the plate until the end of the rod rests on one of the
serrations.

Really, to pop one of these things out would cost about $.10 in materials;
anyone have a machine-shop project that they want to do? Heck, I'll even
donate the $30 for the material to make limiting plates for all the members
of the Olds list!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:02:33 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: starter problem

>When I bought my 72 cutlass it had a flex fan on the motor. The previous
>owner said he put it on because he had trouble starting the car after he
>drove it for a while. It would start fine after being driven. I replaced
>the flex fan with the original. Now I am having starting the car after
>driving it for half hour or so. Let it cool for 30 to 45 mins it will
>spin rite over. Previous owner said he put new starter on just before I
>bought it. Anyone ever had the same problem? Anyone offer a solution?

Ah, the infamous "heat-soak" problem. I've had the same problem: the starter
is getting too hot, and isn't strong enough to turn over the engine. You
either need a stronger starter (he may have put a "new to him" starter on
the car, but who knows where it came from, or what it was designed for), or
to keep heat from the starter (are your exhaust or header pipes too close to
the starter? Is the factory heat-shield in place?), or both. If it's a
small-block, perhaps install a big-block starter; if it's a big-block, make
sure that the replacement starter is for a big-block.

I have no idea why a flex-fan would allow the current starter to turn the
car over when it's hot; perhaps it was just that much rotating mass that it
took to break the camel's back?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:02:30 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Say what? (was Re: 403 olds)

>>The 350 is a faster motor by about 5 horse power.
>
>Really? So, that 88 I saw with the 403 which was running in the 13's could do
>better by dropping 53 CID? Hmmmmm......

Chris: what gears was he running? Oh, I'd _love_ to be in the 13's... :)

>>the parts are pretty much the same cause the block is
>>the same exact size externally, so anything a 350 has u can do for a 403, so
>>don't worry about messing anything up
>
>Agreed.
>In my experience, 403 pistons are pricey, hard to find forged.

Shhh! Don't tell PST; they charge the same price for them as they do for the
much-more common forged 350 pistons! In all honesty, they're probably
overkill for just about any application; you'll more likely blow a head
gasket than blow a piston (just think of those siamesed bores as a kind of
factory "pressure relief valve"... ;)

>Easy spice-up:
>if pistons are re-usable, just hone cylinders, new rings & bearings, the usual
>oil system mods, ª7a 1972 350 heads, fitted w/ larger intake & mabe xst 
valves,

If you get the ª7a's, I imagine they'd come with the larger 1.625" xst
valves from the factory (mine did, at least). Add in the 2.00" intakes from
the 403's heads, and you've got W-31 spec heads, with hardened exhaust
seats, for the cost of machine work! Not a bad deal, huh? [side note: seems
that someone in the Olds engineering dept. was trying to earn extra brownie
points or something back in 1972, as the 350 and 455 both upped their
exhaust valve size that year (to 1.625" and 1.67", respectively); of course,
the next year was the year of the smogger motors, with the "J" and "8" heads
going back to small valves on intake and exhaust.]
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:11:05 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)

>>>The Offenhauser valve covers are polished cast aluminum.  They look
<snip>
>>That's great info; thanks for the lead. I'm always on the lookout for
>>possible valve-cover candidates for my cars, and while there's always the
>>old chrome covers, I'd be interested in something a bit more unusual (right
>>now I've got a pair of stock covers with "wrinkle-black" finish on them;
>>different, but still not that interesting). The GM performance catalog also
>>lists a set of cast covers, but I'm afraid to look at the price.
>
>>I missed your previous discussion re: Valve Covers.  Apparently you located
>a source for aluminum valve covers for a 455!?  Are these finned aluminum?
>What is the price?  I am also in the market.  Thanks!

I don't know the answer to any of your questions; the new list member just
mentioned them. I've seen the Mickey Thompson covers, but don't like their
"square" look. The GM Performance catalog lists a pair, but no price, just a
part ª. And now these Offy covers: I imagine the only way to find out is to
contact Offenhauser directly. Apparently, they're not heavily advertised, so
availability may be limited.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:11:08 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

>This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape but
>could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead
>blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or
>warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?

How about some aluminum wheel cleaner? Since the intake is off the engine,
it can't damage the engine paint, and it's definitely designed to not damage
the aluminum. Just follow the directions on the bottle.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:29:11 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: starter problem

Sounds like a hot-start problem to me, with heat soak to the solenoid.
The fan type really won't make any difference for the starter, as long
as both are functioning properly.  The fan clutch may be shot, allowing
the car to heat up more.

Couple things that you can do.  Insulate the factory solenoid, and get
one of those solenoid re-locator kits.  Cost around 25 bucks from
Summit, for example.  Or, get a new F*ord solenoid from the autoparts
store, or if you find a F*rd in the junkyard (THAT shouldn't be hard)
then nab a good solenoid from one of those beasts. The insulator for the
solenoids are easy to find too.  Now, if you are concerned about
originality, then you may have new problems.  I suggest a High Torque
stater assembly for a Hi Compression V-8. This helps also. Another thing
you may want to check is for an exhaust leak directly on the starter
itself, and all wire guage is the proper size, and fittings are clean
and tight.

2 more cents.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:32:46 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Touching up heat control and etc.

Dan Williams wrote:
>
> I've been trying to touch up the heater controls on my 68 and I can find
> a good match.  I've tried two paint pens but neither worked.  One was
> the testors flat black, which was too flat.  The other was just labeled
> black and it was too glossy.  Is the correct color semi-gloss black?
> Does anybody know of any touch-up paint that I can use?
>
Try Krylon satin black spray.  Just spray some into a Dixie cup, enough
to get a little liquid, then take a tiny brush to dab it on.  Works
pretty well.

Or you could remove it completely from the dash, disassemble
it......nah.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:51:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 73 Carb

In a message dated 97-09-02 09:46:38 EDT, you write:

<<  > > I also picked one up with number
 > > 17057257

 I can't find this ª

 > > Robert Schinkel
 > > 1970 W - 31
 > > 1970 442 Conv.
 > > 1970 Cutlass Conv.

 Unfortunately the book doesn't go into much detail about the applications.

 Daren >>

Is that 17057257 suppose to have the "1" in front of it?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:04:04 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Julian Show

How about Yorba Linda October 5?


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:16:08 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Paint Codes

I have done it again - read the classifieds from the latest club newsletter
& went & looked at a '64 Cutlass tonight.  Guy works for the local pull
apart.  All it needs is a little body TLC.  Door with dent but he's got a
spare he pulled.  Best thing about this little box is it has buckets & a
VERY cool console (auto) & A/C :-)   What transmission is in these things?
Its got a 330 CID (my favorite Olds motor).

Oh brother.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:08:08 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: RE: 70 Paint Codes

Thanks much - I'm passing it on.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:07:33 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Show chrome, who does it?

Here is the info you needed:

Bumpers start at $160.00(camaro,mustang) $210.00 larger bumpers your cores.
Shipping bumpers cross country is no problem with UPS, when they go back to
work.... and generally costs
under $30.00 ea. with $500.00 insurance. Turnaround time is two weeks and
all work is show quality, and fullu guaranteed to please. For more info
email to maldana@digitalwave.net or call at 760-357-0713


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 97 01:17:28 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

Chris Sparks excitedly asked:

..How in the world do I get this window back up?  I have pulled the panel and
yanked on the glass.  No good.  I have tried switching the wiring around,
thinking I had a bad switch, to no avail.  I am panicing now since I have an
open car that anyone can get in to.

     Chris,

     I'd say the odds are high that you have a break in one of the wires
     leading into the door from the cowl.  Keep in mind that these wires
     flex every time you open the door, so after 30 years, you get a
     fatigue failure.  Naturally, this is internal to the insulation and
     not obvious to the naked eye.  What has apparently happened is that
     this break made intermittent connection as you hit bumps while
     driving, allowing you to use the windows.  Naturally, just when you
     wanted to close the window, Murphy (the same guy who put the crisis
     detector circuit into Xerox machines) decided that the broken wire had
     made contact long enough.

     If you've managed to get the door upholstery panel off, you will be
     able to locate the window drive motor.  Note that it has two wires
     coming out of it (I'm currently in Phoenix and without a wiring
     diagram, so I can't give you the colors at the moment).  Simply
     disconnect the wires from the motor and apply +12V to one and ground
     the other to drive the motor.  Naturally, you will select the wrong
     orientation on the first try, so when this causes the motor to attempt
     to drive the window down, reverse the wires and the window should
     rise.

     Actually, I kind of mislead you in the beginning of my response.
     Since we are talking about the driver's window, the only wires
     affecting it which pass through the door post are the +12V and ground.
     These, of course, are common to all the other windows as well, so if
     the other windows can be operated from the driver's door switch bank,
     these wires are not the problem.  Of course, this is one of those
     dreaded intermittent electrical problems, so in troubleshooting,
     wiggle everything in sight while leaning on the switch.  Get a can of
     electrical contact cleaner and blast every connector terminal.  If the
     intermittent is in the motor itself, you're screwed and the course of
     action I outlined above will obviously not get the window up.  In that
     case, all you can do is replace the motor.

We won't even mention rain!

     Lucky for you (all together now), "It ne-ver rains in Cal-i-fornia..."

     Of course, it's currently raining here in Phoenix.  In addition,
     assembly operations on our launch vehicle out at Vandenberg AFB have
     been halted due to lightning(!) - note that VAFB has just about the
     lowest incidence of lightning in the US.  At least it's good to know
     that this strange weather is all Chris Sparks' fault :-)

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 97 00:54:05 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

Greg Beaulieu asked:

This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape but
could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead
blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or
warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?

Thanks in advance...

     Greg,


     I've used the bead blasting in the past (on aftermarket aluminum
     manifolds) and I've been pleased with the results.  You _will_ find,
     however, that the finish is somewhat "brighter" (for lack of a better
     term) than the original as-cast finish.  In addition, material is
     definitely removed.

     As an alternative, I've used Naval Jelly for Aluminum (can you still
     get this stuff?).  It is apparently a mild etchant (read: acid) which
     removes all corrosion and discoloration from aluminum.  You paint it
     on with an old brush and hose it off after letting it sit for a few
     minutes.  Note that any dirt or grease should be removed with a high
     pressure water blast prior to using the Naval Jelly.  Also, be
     careful, as the original Naval Jelly is for steel; be sure to get the
     correct type.

     On a 71 Cutlass that I had, the aluminum manifold (which originally
     had been bead blasted prior to installation) would start looking kind
     of grungy after a period of time.  About once a year I would pull the
     manifold and give it the Naval Jelly treatment.  This resulted in a
     brand new-looking manifold for a fraction of the cost of another bead
     blast.  In addition, I didn't need to worry about the repeated bead
     blastings eroding the markings on the manifold.  Do not apply this
     with the manifold on the engine, however, as it will surely damage the
     engine paint and will likely splatter onto the fenders.

     The only problem is that I haven't bought this stuff in a number of
     years, so I don't even know if it is still manufactured.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:28:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Benton3@ix.netcom.com
Subject: HEI conversion

Hi Todd,
I too have installed electronic ignition and noticed a big improvement in
performance! I just wanted to remind you to also increase the sparkplug
electrode gap. When GM introduced electronic ignition the spark gap was
increased from .035" to .055"-.060". The larger gap means more voltage is 
needed
to jump this gap,producing a larger spark and improved combustion. I noticed an
immediate improvement in idle quality,throttle response and slight gas milage
increase. If you didn`t already know this, hope it helps. My $.02 Don Smith
OCAª 17788

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Subject: Re: Motion Olds - MCR

I know Bob Anderson out of Tampa FL owns the Motion prepared Drag '69
H/O, It was featured in an OLDS performance build up publication
published by Motion Performance. It did 11 Sec 1/4 miles back in '69!

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Dan Williams wrote:

> The new Muscle Car Review (Oct/Nov) has an article about Baldwin/Motion
> cars.  Of course it is geared towards the ch*vy stuff but there is
> mention of the Motion Oldsmobile cars.    I belive there has been talk
> on the list about the Motion Oldsmobile cars before.  Anyway, one of the
> pictures is of the Motion newsletter which announces 2 new club cars
> (used to promote Motion in racing) The cars are a 442 and an F-85.
> There is a picture of the 442, a 68.  There is also mention that the
> Oldsmobiles are a pilot project with Motion-Markowitz Oldsmobile.  These
> Oldsmobile, with or without ram air can be purchased through the club at
> special discount prices.  Sign me up!
>
> Does anybody have any more information on these cars?  Did any ever
> survive?  This is the most I have ever seen on these cars (and it is
> just from a picture).
>
> -Dan
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:36:50 -0600
From: Tim Rudolph <trudolph@frii.com>
Subject: Introduction and questions (long)

Hello,
  I've decided to step out from my 'lurking' spot on this list and
introduce myself.  I've been subscribed to the list over a month ago after
gaining a great interest in owning an Oldsmobile, particularly a 442.  I've
liked muscle cars for a few years now, not any particular type.  To be
honest, I've only been driving for a year and a half now (I'm 17) and I'm
pretty much getting tired of driving our 4 cylinder import.  I've got a
little spare cash now and it's about time to get a car with a little
muscle.  I recently have come across someone who is selling a 1969 442
Convertible, which is the car of my dreams.  If I had to pick a year, and
type of car, this as of late would definitely be it.
  The reason I've chosen this time to introduce myself is I would like to
enlist your help/opinions and such on my possible purchase of this vehicle.
 In talking with the owner he has told me various things and I want to know
if I'd be capable of handling certain tasks that are associated with this
car.  To be honest, I do not have any experience working with cars (except
basic maintenence) but it is something that I would enjoy learning very
much.  All of the stuff I know about this car is via conversation as I live
in Colorado and the car is located in Wisconsin, so bear with me.
  I was told off the bat that the car would most likely need two rear
quarter panels because the previous owner apparently thought he was some
body wizard but according to this guy, did a bad job.  First question,  Are
reproduction quarter panels any good?  I am not looking to build a show
winning car here, but a sharp looking road vehicle.  I don't want some
cheesy quarter panels to ruin the effect?  I am not planning on doing the
body work myself but it still would be a matter of how good these repro
panels are.  Are there other alternatives perhaps?  Next question, he said
that the top really needs to be replaced.  Is this something that I could
handle changing myself?  Or is this something I need to look to someone
else for?  I'm willing to learn, but I have absolutely no idea what things
are really worth the effort, and what aren't.  That is essentially what I'm
trying to get answered.  And last for the time being, the guy said the car
was most likely raced sometime during its life because certain conveniences
were removed.  He gave the heater core, windshield wipers, and inner fender
walls as three examples of this.  Is it difficult to replace these kinds of
things with the car together?  Is this something I could learn to do ?
  Thanks for listening to me babble on and thanks in advance for any
responses.  From what I've been reading in the past month or so this list
is just an amazing resource for Olds enthusiasts.  I'm glad I found it.
I'll keep you guys updated on the situation as well and if I decide to
purchase the car.

Tim Rudolph
trudolph@frii.com
(Hopefully owner of a '69 4-4-2 Convertible soon)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:09:28 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Tire and wheel size

I have 255/60/15 tires (BFGoodrich) on my '81 Delta 88.  They sit on
origional wheels that held 215/75/15s before.  The tire dealer told me it
was okay, but recently everyone tells me I should have changed my rims.
Is this true?  If so, how wide should they be?  Do you know of any that
could fit that I could pick up on the junk-yard.   Maybe some old camaro
wheels or something.  Thanks

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 307
1995 Intrepid 3.3
1976 Delta 88 455

------------------------------

Date: 2 Sep 1997 22:39:12 PST
From: mjones@dragon.gleep.com
Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 ª830

OL>>They aren't unibody in the usual sense of the term. They do have full
OL><snip>
OL>>typical at the time. The idea was that the body would act as a structural
OL>>member, not just pieces bolted on to the frame. I think they continued
OL>>with this idea in the '65 full-sizers. From the lightness of frames used
OL>>on the '77 and up B & C bodies and the '78 and up A & G bodies I think
OL>>they took that idea another step forward later on.

OL>The '64-'77 A-bodies (which of course were all full-frame; who is it that
OL>told you otherwise, and what is his phone number? ;) had a very rigid
OL>construction, by comparison. Just compare the decklid of a '77-'79 Delta or
OL>98 with that of an earlier A-body; the Delta's decklid will flex when
OL>twisted, whereas the A-body's is very rigid.

I've noticed that too on my '78 delta.

OL>>>Also I have been noticing that sometimes my oil pressure gauge will
OL>>>flutter when the engine is warmed up, is this something that I should
OL>>>look into seriously?  The flutter is maybe +/- 1 PSI, and the lowest PSI
OL>>>I've seen the pump put out (which was at idle) was 7 as per the service
OL>>>manual.

OL>How many miles on it? How does that hot idle PSI compare to the PSI when
OL>cold? Your bearings may be OK for now, but they're not going to be getting
OL>any better. Just let the oil pressure pump everything up before you rev the
OL>motor above an idle; I killed a couple rod bearings on my old 403 by not
OL>doing so.

It really depends, the PSI for the idle fluctuates from around 7 psi up
to 20 when hot, and when cold, I've seen it be near 50..  The engine has
83k on it (350) and I've put 22k of that on in 2 years.  The flutter
comes and goes.  The cold idle however, when I start it up is 40 PSI,
sometimes I've seen it 45-50.  it'll be 50 PSI on the road until it
warms up and then it'll hover around 37-45 PSI.

Mike Jones
'78 Delta 88 2dr.

btw, on your dual exhaust, you use dual catalytic converters?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:38:09 -0400
From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Subject: subscribe oldsmobile

subscribe oldsmobile


Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:50:19 -0500
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

DON'T USE OVEN CLEANER !!!!! Oven cleaner will discolor or ruin the
aluminum. I had an aluminum manifold(single plane) and it turned out very
nice after a trip to the bead blaster(glass beads).

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:44:15 -0300 (ADT) Greg Beaulieu
<ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> writes:
>
>This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape
>but
>could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead
>blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or
>warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?
>
>Thanks in advance...
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
>Canada
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:27:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: Spam & Closed list?

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Pat McDermott wrote:
> I haven't noticed any spam lately, which is a great thing. I remember a
> while back getting a bunch. If the spam stopped  because the list is
> closed, Great. Does the list being closed inhibit others from joining?
> When did it close? I truly enjoy  this list and appreciate all Greg's
> efforts.

It closed a little over a week ago. It shouldn't bother anyone who
wants to s*bscribe and I haven't noticed anything in that regard to date.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, mrada wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I need some assistance.  The 68 442 (spare one) has electric windows
> and the front driver's window had been inoperable, or so I thought,
> for a while now.  I was driving the car home, after getting it finally
> smogged, and just by chance hit the down switch and it came to life.
> The window seemed to go up and down.  I thought, "great", I now don't
> have to suffocate in this car while driving.  When I got home the
> window decided not to go back up!  Doh!  How in the world do I get this
> window back up?

<snip>

Chris,

I had the same problem with my son's '69.  I disassembled the
switch and cleaned all the contacts, which helped a litle.  Then I cleaned
the female contacts on the back of the and increased the tension on the
spring clips in the harness connector by squeezing with needle nosed
pliers.  That did the trick.

Good luck.

Don Sugarman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:54:15 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Rarest 88 and 98?

I am curious, what is the rarest 88 and the rarest 98?

I am familiar with a very few 76 88 Holiday coupes, some 77-79 (?) Pace
Cars, but what is the rarest?

What is the rarest 98?  I am starting to suspect the 1957 Starfire Coupe
98 Convertible

I can't seem to find one.  I did not get to go to Lansing, wish I could
have, did anyone see one there?

Just curious!

I thought I read the production of the Starfire 98 in 1957 was 1200ish,
and all had J-2 Rockets.

Thomas Martin
1985 Cutlass Supreme 350

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 07:51:52 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

you might be able to take the motor loose from the regulator and pull
the window up by hand and then fasten the motor back to hold it up


Terry teague
68 Delta Custom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:11:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vendors (Not to Long)

Regarding Mike Rothe's fourth cents in regards to Vendors,

  I don't think I could make this personal against Steve "Brothers", or his
partner Mike.  Both seem very friendly and personable.
  I wanted to share what my experience was with them since I have heard
simular comments from other people.
  Three months is an extremely long time to wait for parts.  Even on
backorder this is a long time.  What should have been done was that any in
stock parts should have been shipped immediately and the option be given to
either wait it out or take a refund for the out of stock item.  I talked with
both Steve and Mike several times over the past three months and was always
assured that the order was either shipped, or ready to be shipped.  I was
even assured that the in stock parts would be shipped immediately with the
balance to be shipped when available.  I still have nothing.  Granted the UPS
problem set everyone back about 3 weeks, but since they settled I have
ordered other parts and received in less than a week.

  The comment regarding  "we don't need the business" is actually a true
statment.  Perhaps they were just plain to busy to handle the large volume
order I wanted to place, but I too am in a customer oriented business
"Contracting".  I take all new projects on no matter how busy I am, this is
how I make a living.

Well that's enough.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:38:00 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge

Hi All, I'm back from two weeks on vacation.  The weather was nice on
Cape Cod, except for the hurri-- I mean, "tropical depression", that
blew in one day...  I hope everyone had fun at Lansing!

So, yesterday morning, I was walking over to get a cup of coffee at
this place next to our building, and I cut through a parking lot that
we share with a few companies that rent out space on some of the floors...

when what do I see but a '68 Cutlass convertible!  From 30 feet away it
looked real nice with it's dark blue paint.  Was that a factory color?

However, I noticed a few obviously added do-dads, especially upon closer
inspection.  OK, that big rear wing on the trunk lid I saw from 30 feet
away :), but it looked like the grille might be different.  I'm certainly
no expert on '68s, the fender insignia said this is a Cutlass 'S'.  Is
this a Supreme, or did they differentiate in '68?  I remember a thread
on 'S's as opposed to Supremes, but not the details...

The interior looked original; black bucket seats, floor shift auto.
After market radio and gauges.

Hopefully I'll bump into the owner someday...



Tim ('Bama Bill, Didja Miss Me?) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:24:01 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: GTO Rear End

> Got the 3.23 posi from a 70 GTO transplanted into the 69 this week.
>Everything bolted up as if it was supposed to be there.
>The better ratio really perked up the 350 compared to the old 3.08, but
>better yet; no more vibration!!!
>By my calculations, my speedo should be off by 5% and read higher than
>actual???  Would somone please confirm this, my brain goes into a tailspin
>on this one?

Yes, by my calculations your speedo would read higher by about 5%.  To correct
this, get a plastic speedo gear from the dealer (around 6$) that has approx
5% MORE teeth than what you have currently.  This is an easy install.  Well
worth it.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:34:57 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: HEI conversion

> When GM introduced electronic ignition the spark gap was
>increased from .035" to .055"-.060". The larger gap means more voltage is
needed
>to jump this gap,producing a larger spark and improved combustion. I noticed 
an
>immediate improvement in idle quality,throttle response and slight gas milage

Yes, I did increase the gap, to .07.  GM tuneup specs for the HEI for the early
years specify .08.  Recommendations from several of you on the list suggest
.06.  So I picked the middle.  I also changed plugs, to the AC R46SX.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 97 08:56:39 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: WARNING  (was: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!)

you might be able to take the motor loose from the regulator and pull
the window up by hand and then fasten the motor back to hold it up


Terry teague
68 Delta Custom

     NO!  Do not attempt to do this with the regulator still in the car!.
     There is a very strong torsional counterbalance spring (kind of like a
     watch spring on steroids) in the regulator, which the motor drives
     against to lower the window.  With the window in the down position the
     spring is fully wound up; unbolting the motor from the regulator could
     release the spring with possibly dangerous results.

     Failing all else, it _is_ possible to unbolt the _regulator_ (with
     motor still attached) from the door and free the window to slide.
     Unfortunately, the regulator also holds the window in the up position,
     so this will just allow you to slide the window up and down but won't
     hold it up.  You could, of course, stuff a block of wood or something
     under the window inside the door to hold it up.

     To replace the motor (with the regulator/motor assembly out of the
     car), the factory service manual directs one to drill a hole between
     the sector gear and lift arm on the regulator and to temporarily
     install a bolt holding the two together.  This will prevent the spring
     from unwinding while you unbolt the motor from the regulator.
     Obviously, remember to remove the bolt after the replacement motor has
     been installed and before reinstalling the regulator in the door
     (DOH!)

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:54:07 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge

On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> when what do I see but a '68 Cutlass convertible!  From 30 feet away it
> looked real nice with it's dark blue paint.  Was that a factory color?

Hard to tell from this far away. ;-)  You could get dark blue though...

> However, I noticed a few obviously added do-dads, especially upon closer
> inspection.  OK, that big rear wing on the trunk lid I saw from 30 feet
> away :), but it looked like the grille might be different.  I'm certainly
> no expert on '68s, the fender insignia said this is a Cutlass 'S'.  Is
> this a Supreme, or did they differentiate in '68?  I remember a thread
> on 'S's as opposed to Supremes, but not the details...

A Cutlass S should have a grille with vertical bars. A 4-4-2 has a
grid pattern. The S was not a Supreme, but rather a slightly sporty
variant of the regular Cutlass. You could also get a Supreme (forget
if they offered that in a convertible though) which in '68 was the
luxury Cutlass with specific door panels, upholstery, trim, etc., and
silver paint trimming the wheel openings and rocker panels.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 06:07:10 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp! H*lp! H*lp!

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:
>
>         Check the connection terminals on the motor. They are probably
> corroded. If you got the time,  the right rear is the same motor. Swap them.
> Yes you could have a bad switch. You can tear the back of it apart and
> sodier the connections if they are bad.

I can try swapping motors (the right rear does seem to work).  Last
night
I got desperate and tried to remove the driver's motor (the 4 nuts (by
the one
nut, me)) and manage to get the rollers off of the track.  I bitched and
moaned
on this one since I couldn't get the damn rollers back on.  BTW how does
a
person get the motor out of the door cavity?  I didn't see a hole big
enough
or am I halucinating?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:58:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavidB442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertiblev

Would also be interested in the rear bumper. Also front windshield, right
front fender, rear end and other odds and ends. Drop me a line.

David Butler
Sacramento, Ca
1968 442 Convertible
1968 442 Coupe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:03:33 PDT
From: "Blitzstein,Kim" <Kim_Blitzstein@co.xerox.com>
Subject: <none>

remove

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 09:10:21 -0500
From: NORM KARLSON <NKARLSON@WORDTECH.COM>
Subject: Pardon my ignorance...

Hi all,
To all you knowledge bases out there with large full disks to all of us fast
CPU's with large empty disks...

Is there a place, database, file or location that offers information &
definition of many of the terms you all use about the Olds through time?

Example, Statistics,  What is considered the more valuable cars, what
years/models had the least/most production runs, what years had what
body types, what years has what options that were performance or
unusual,  what other information you all consider valuable, what do all
the terms stand for, TH400, H/O, W30, tri power..etc.

I know the answer to some of these questions but I do not know if there
is a place where I can get a core dump.
Any info is appreciated.
Regards,

Norm Karlson - nkarlson@wordtech.com
'67 CS Conv.
'53 R-110 INT Pickup

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª831
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