To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #828


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, September 1 1997      Volume 01 : Number 828



'69 H/O
Re: Julian Show
Mike Rothe
Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)
Thanks for the Photo's
305 SB Ch*vy Valvetrain
Re: Free xxx Minutes Teen sex!!
Re: Big small block
Re: Drag car buildup advice needed
Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)
1985 442 FOR SALE
pertronix, toro-truck, 400 o.d.
air cleaner
testing, 1-2-3, testing
Test
Rear end info needed
403 olds
70 D88 in LA
olds mail
70 Paint Codes
MSD, cars avail & seen, etc.
Solid Main Web 403's again?
PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
350 vs. 403
Transes, car corral
Vaughn 72 H/O burnout
test
my toro
Re: Back from Lansing and sightings.
Rear end info needed
Re: Drag car buildup advice needed
List not working?
Drag races on Labor day weekend.....  a few cars spotted... (longish)
Re: Quiet
Re: 70 Paint Codes
Re: Rear end info needed
lansing and misc
Re: '69 H/O
68-69 442 Body Data Plates
Re: Big small block
ADMIN: List was down, Digest now closed
Re: Quiet
ADMIN: List was down, Digest now closed
1985 OLDS Cutlass Parts
Re: 1958 Olds 88 (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:01:16 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: '69 H/O

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 H/O Lovers,

There is a 1969 H/O for sale in the area Auto Trader that at least one =
person may be interested in.  The ad reads:

1969 Olds/Hurst, auto, V8 (that must be rare), air, ª117 of 906, less =
than 400 with factory air, good condition, H/O 455, runs strong (no =
kidding), $9950, 615-424-3000 (Tennessee number - Nashville east).

Of course, I know nothing about this car except for the advertisement.  =
Parenthetical remarks by Bill Culp.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3Dªffffff>
<P><FONT color=3Dª000000 face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" =
size=3D2><I>&nbsp;H/O=20
Lovers,</I></FONT></P>
<P><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" size=3D2>There is a 1969 H/O =
for sale in=20
the area Auto Trader that at least one person may be interested =
in.&nbsp; The ad=20
reads:</FONT></EM>
<P><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" size=3D2>1969 Olds/Hurst, auto, =
V8 (that=20
must be rare), air, ª117 of 906, less than 400 with factory air, good =
condition,=20
H/O 455, runs strong (no kidding), $9950, 615-424-3000 (Tennessee number =
- -=20
Nashville east).</FONT></EM>
<P><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" size=3D2>Of course, I know =
nothing about=20
this car except for the advertisement.&nbsp; Parenthetical remarks by =
Bill=20
Culp.</FONT></EM>
<P><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" size=3D2>Bill Culp<BR>Decatur,=20
Alabama</FONT></EM>
<P><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Calligraphy" =
size=3D2></FONT></EM>&nbsp;</BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:07:00 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Julian Show

James Thingwold wrote:
>
> Since we're not bringing any of the tribe we usually just stick to the
> Delta.  I'll see if I can talk the other half into driving though (he hates
> that - so its about a 20% chance they'll both go), I like taking 2 cars.
>
> Thanks for the rundown on your rebuild costs - the 400 is slated for the
> same starting in February of '98.  Oh, I guess I could sell my 240,000 mile
> original 350 CID for - what - $10.00 and put that towards the 400!!  Haha.
>
> I need to get the Toro roadworthy first as I'm gonna drive it once we start
> the major components swap (taking the boxed control arms & 12 bolt out of
> my parts wagon along with swapping in the 400 when its done) on the VC.
>
> Too many projects - not enough time or money.
>
> Lisa Madsen
> Anaheim, CA
>
> My cars & their alias'
> '66 Toronado (LA Woman)
> '67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
> '69 Toronado (Toro II)
> '72 Vista Cruiser (VC)
>
> Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
> My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
A feeling I am all too familiar with.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:12:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Klinsmann7@aol.com
Subject: Mike Rothe

Could you please post you web page address?

Thanx, Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:23:39 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)

 Gary,

That is a nice story.  I always like it whenever someone gets what they have
been chasing for years & actually enjoys it when it does come about.  We'll
all be watching Bryceman's for these graphics.




>Hi. My name is Gary Andresen.
>
>This will be interesting if you like 50's Olds's, Fast Olds's
>or JUST LOVE CARS as I do. (There are some questions interspersed
>within my rambling text I could use some help on.)
>
>I am 53, so have had my share of cars. But we'll just talk about
>the Oldsmobiles in my life.
>
>My very first car as a sixteen year old licensed drive was a '51
>Super 88 2-door hardtop. Green and black.

>My next Olds was purchased when I was eighteen from a buddy at college.
>It was a '55 Super 88 2-door hardtop.  White and black with a red
>interior.
>Paid $600 for it and THIS CAR WAS CHERRY. Oh, yeah, it was running a '58
>J-2
>engine with a B&r.esM hydro.  Even had cut-outs and came with a pair of
>slicks.
>This is the best and favorite car of all those I have owned.  (Including
>a '62
>Maserati Sebring Coupe which I owned for about a year and decided the
>cost of
>parts was out of my league.)
>
>MY FIRST QUESTION - Do you think the rear-end can handle this engine??

NO.

>
>SECOND QUESTION - Just openned the tube with my new door sills from
>Fusick, and was
>surprised to find that they were plain aluminimum.  Was expecting a
>duplicate of the
>originals.  Any thoughts or other sources would be appreciated.

Hemmings is all I can think of.
>
>THIRD QUESTION - I bought all new sheet-metal screws for the engine
>compartment, but
>don't know where to get nice looking chromed or polishe screws/fasteners
>for all of the
>new lenses and the interior molding.  Any ideas.

Go to the junque yarde & start selecting what you need in the way of
fasteners.  Al has good chrome & I suppose CA does too.  There are some
people supplying these but the price is high.  $5.00 should get you all you
need.
>

>Hope this was too long.  Don't know what the etiquete is for this group.

Don't worry, there is no etiquete in this group.
>
>Gary Andresen
>
Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Thanks for the Photo's

To everyone who shared the Lansing photo's, as well as the stories I wish to
thank.

I know I missed a great time and possible a historical event.

I will be in Springfield next year, hopefully with my completed 71 W30 and
can possible meet some of you.

Again,  thanks for taking the trouble to share these photo's with us.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:36:45 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: 305 SB Ch*vy Valvetrain

Hi all,

No, this is not Olds-related, but I do have a couple questions that need
answering regarding the valvetrain on my '91 GMC Sierra 4x4.

I've had the truck for almost three years now, and the valves have
always been silent, and I've never had an engine or oil-related problem
with it.  Over the past few days, I've noticed a constant tapping in the
engine, and I imagine it's the valves.  It's not just at start-up,
either--whether the engine is warm or cold, there's a constant tapping
noise.  I'm guessing that it's oil-related, but I had the oil changed
(GM 5w30 with a can of STP oil additive) and it hasn't stopped.

The engine has a little over 90,000km (55K mi.) on it , and it's never
even been tuned-up.  It's still got the original sparkplugs and wires,
but it's had a L.O.F. every 4500-5000km.  The engine has never been
subjected to any *really* strenuous abuse;  I pull a two-bed snowmobile
trailer in the winter, and that's about it.  (I do light up the Wrangler
TD's every once in a blue moon, but no high-revving...3750 MAX!)

If this has happening because of excessive wear (oh, God), is the Ch*v
valvetrain adjustable?  Could this be solved with the turn of a wrench?
(I'm still a rookie at this...I've never had a valvetrain apart
before...can't you tell?)

Any help would be appreciated  (no, a stick of dynamite WON'T work...I
tried that on the old Chrysler...).

S. Dave Ward

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4 (305 TBI)

(a little off topic...)
   ^^^^^^
P.S.--has anyone heard about Princess Di yet?  I was watching the news
about an hour ago, and they said that Lady Diana was killed in a car
crash, while the chauffer was trying to outrun a pack of news vans!  Is
that fact, or fiction?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 06:13:23 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Free xxx Minutes Teen sex!!

>THIS IS A FREE SERVICE!
<snip>
>Come enjoy the fun with one of the oldest, most established adult
>sites on the net!  Point your browser to:
>
>CLICK HERE  <snip>

Well, Greg, looks like that closed list idea doesn't solve the problem after
all (in fact, these kinds of posts didn't start showing up until *after* we
went closed; if that's the case, I'd rather return to an "open" list...).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 06:13:25 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Big small block

>Has anyone here ever put 425 pistons in a 330 block????
>I have been told they with fit with proper overbore and that the pin
>height is the same.

All '64-'67 Olds V-8's (330, 400, 425, excluding the 394) had a pin height
of 1.615", so theoretically the pistons would interchange if you could bore
the block out. The piston sizes were:

330- 3.9385"
400- 4.000"
425- 4.125"

So, a .0615" overbore (pretty reasonable) would allow a 330 to use a 400ci
piston to make a 340ci motor, but it would need a .1865" (!) to use a 425ci
piston, which would result in a 362ci motor.

But...

an Olds 350 normally uses the same 1.615" pin height, and begins with a
4.057" bore, so it would need only a .068" overbore to use the 425 piston
and get that 362ci; a bit more reasonable, but still a big overbore.

And to think, I was going to throw out those old Toro 425 pistons... Might
give some decent compression with their shallow dishes in that old 350 I've
got in my friend's garage.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 06:13:19 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Drag car buildup advice needed

>I plan to build me a 95% drag 5% cruise car over the winter am seeking
>advice from those who have "been there done that..or are still doing it
>:-)" I have 3 Olds to choose from for the buildup: 72 Cutlass Supreme, 80
>Olds Cutlass (not my 442...another plain jane Olds) , or 75 Hurst/Olds.
>Which would provide the best foundation for a drag car? I know the 75
>weighs alot so that is a big concern.

Weight and availability of parts. Forget it.

>The 80 is a stripped car from the
>factory with hardly any options.  The 72 is pretty much stripped too, it is
>a 350 dual exhaust car now.

While the 455 would fit in both, the headers on the '80 would reduce the
turning radius. Not a big deal on a drag car, but a bummer if you melt a
tire on a header while backing out of a 7-11 on Saturday night. The '80
would be lighter, and as you say, a cage would stiffen it up. 'Glass ia
available for both, so that shouldn't be an issue. One issue is fitting a
suitable rear in there; short of a factory 8.5" 10-bolt from a GN or
H/O-442, you'll have to weld brackets onto something else, or kludge an
early 12-bolt or 10-bolt in there (probably the best option anyway).

If you were going to drive it more on the street, I'd go with the '72, but
if it's primarily a strip car, go with the '80.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 06:13:27 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: '55 Close to Ready (Long, but not if you like 50;s cars)

>This will be interesting if you like 50's Olds's, Fast Olds's
>or JUST LOVE CARS as I do.

This is the right place!

<snip>
>My next Olds was purchased when I was eighteen from a buddy at college.
>It was a '55 Super 88 2-door hardtop.  White and black with a red
<snip>
>No more Oldsmobile until three years ago when a bought a '55 "88" 2-door
<snip>
>As you may have guessed by now I am recreating the '55 that I loved so
much.  Back in
>'61, a J-2 had respectable power, but not today.  So the engine compartment 
now
>contains a balanced and blueprinted 455 Olds power house with Dual Carter
AFB 4-barrels
>sittin on an Offenhaused intake. MSD ignition and a mile cam.  Learned from
a guy at
>a car show that Offenhaused would special order thier beautiful ribbed
aluminum valve
>covers, so they are sitting on my workbench waiting to be installed as a
final touch.
>This is connected to a rebuilt TH400 transmission which is hooked up to the
stock rear
>end.

Sounds like a real nice engine. Now, about those Offenhauser valve covers;
are they polished cast aluminum, or rough-cast? Do they have enough
clearance for roller rockers? Do they fit under the stock A/C and alternator
brackets?

>MY FIRST QUESTION - Do you think the rear-end can handle this engine??
This isn't
>intended to be a drag car, but you know damn well I will get on it every
chance I get.

As someone said previously, these Olds/Pontiac rears were *the* rear axles
used on the early-60's gassers, so unless you're really intent on running in
the low-9/high-8 second times at the strip, you should have no problem.

>Every bit of chrome and stainless has been re-done. (Would you believe
>over $3,200,

I believe it. But hey, it's only money... :)

>Brand new top-tinted windshield (Was $350 a fair price) and tinted straight
>glass.

With those curves in it? Yeah, I think that's more than fair.

>OPINIONS ON THIS WELCOME - I am now also trying to decide on what to do
about the wheels
>and tires.  Having a lot of trouble trouble with this.  Have the original
small hubcaps
>with the white Olds workd insignia.  Three are good and one has a small
dent.  This could
>like nice with a chrome rign treatment.  Will install radials, but want
tires that can
>handle the engine, so I assume white walls are out, but not sure if I want
them or not
>anyway.

Don't assume; Coker's catalog has some modern-design, wide white-wall
radials (BF Goodrich's "Silvertown" radials) that should do pretty well on
that car. They've got 14" and 15" sizes, in 75 and 70-series profiles, up to
255/70-15 size (that should look nice on the rear of your car!).

>Have also considered smoothie chromed rims with the round hubcaps for a
>mild street rod treatment.

If you didn't go with the chrome steel rims, a set of American "Torq-Thrust
D" rims would look period, but I think a _real_ slick looking setup would be
a set of original-style Halibrand wheels, as used in the
late-50's/early-60's Indy and Bonneville cars. These are advertised as being
reproduced, and the Rod magazines should have the ads for them.

>Hope this was too long.  Don't know what the etiquete is for this group.

Nope; nice hearing your plans. Sounds like you'll have a sweet cruiser there.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 01:01:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: 1985 442 FOR SALE

I have a 1985 442 for sale.. 307 H.O., 4bbl, 4speed auto, t-tops, new paint,
tires, and exhaust, all original except for the CD stereo. I have the
original stereo in a box though. Grey, with grey interior. Never smoked in.
I am 3rd owner. Runs perfectly.  Loaded except power seats.$8950 Can. obo
E-mail for more info...

Shayne
bhorn@tnc.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Karamanos" <hikara@u.washington.edu>
Subject: pertronix, toro-truck, 400 o.d.

I have a pertronix in my 455 powered 47 with a crane hi-6 box and ps91
coil.  I called them and they said I could run a nonresistor wire to the
coil when I put the unit in.  Later when I put the crane box in I believe
the coil wire came out of the box, but I dont remember real well as it all
works so good I forget its there.

The toro-truck you write about was a feature article of HRx magazine, (Hot
Rod Mechanix) published by Leroy Tex Smith out of Driggs ID. during the
late 80's and early 90's.  There were plans on how to make one yourself in
the article.  Cool car to use as it could be any length you choose, due to
FWD.


Gear Vendors is the one to use for a bolt on application, for about the
same amount of money, you can get a 4L80E? (TH400 with O.D. electronically
controlled) with the box and a converter. Article in Hot Rod or Pop. Hot
Rod earlier this year maybe, somebody in Ca. I think does them.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:02:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: air cleaner

At the swap meet, I was lucky enough to sell my HEI compatible dual-snorkle air
cleaner, with air duct ends, for $75. Very rare part- 1 of 1 made. So far. ;-)

Now, I have several Pontiac AC's with snouts very nearly like the 68-9 W30
ACs'. So, the next ones will be better yet.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:11:29 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: testing, 1-2-3, testing

If you can read this, then the list must be working.  If you can't read
this, then you might need to see an eye-doctor.  This is just a test to
see if I've been "booted".

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:50:53 -0400
From: Al Barlow <iamoz@ime.net>
Subject: Test

Just want to see if this is working.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:36:38 -0700
From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Subject: Rear end info needed

I need any/all information avalable about my differential.  I have a 70
442 with a 12 bolt cover.
This is what I know so far...let me know if it is wrong...
actually 10 bolt carrier
8.5" ring gear
28 spline axle
3.23 gears - this I know for sure

any other info will be helpful
Thanks
Brad

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 10:56:17 -0700
From: harry <Km-Nuku@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: 403 olds

Hi, my names Dave and I am currently trying to rebuild a 77' 403 olds,
as I am in New Zealand there is little information or parts.
Can anyone tell me the do's and don'ts, or any info on how to go about
it.
Thanx
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 97 16:25:24 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: 70 D88 in LA

Thanks Doug Kitchener for the tip on the booster leak problem.  Mine on my 70
Cutlass has been hissing slightly after engine shut off but the engine runs 
fine
 except for a slightly rough idle.  Brakes work fine too.  Gonna check it out
though.  Do I need to drain the master cylinder to do this?

Ran accross a quite complete 1970 Delta 88 455, 2 bbl, E heads, 2 door, FRONT
DISKS, green on green, AC, Clock, AM radio.  Engine seemed less grimey than
usual pick-a-part fare.  Like it might even run!  Creased on right front.  In
the Pick-A-Part on North Blinn in Wilmington near Los Angeles.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:00:09  -0500
From: Al Frey <alpha1@airmail.net>
Subject: olds mail

subscribe oldsmobile

Al Frey
alpha1@airmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:59:04 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: 70 Paint Codes

I received the following inquiry off my web page.  I know a few of you have
the paint code book(s) and can probably give me a correct response.  Please
post it to the list - it'll undoubtedly come in handy somewhere.

i understand there only a few (1970 442 W-30 convertibles)  with a certain
          color
          : which is orange in color but has a different name. i would like to
          find out for sure.

Thanks in advance.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:20:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: MSD, cars avail & seen, etc.

- --------------------
Subject: Re: MSD 6 AL

I am thinking of buying an MSD 6AL. Is it worth the money?  Anyone have
any experience, or before/after stories? Any help is appreciated.
===============
Well, I liked the way it behaved on the race car last year, so I bought one for
my car. Eventual plan is to have MSD guts in thge factory UHV box. What I
really liked is the way the limiting feature saved my 66 Toro 425 when it
snapped his driveshaft as he hit 3rd gear after a couple runs. W/o the rev
limiter, kablooie fer sure, dude.
==================

Got a number of nice things at the swap meet, shoulda bought more. NM guy had
69 Toro bumpers I could NOT pass up, got a pair of very beat-up '70-72 Red
IFW's. Missed a beautiful set of 350 FLAT-top forged pistons for $100! Guy down
the way was unloading 68-9 stuff at dirt cheap or free prices. Darren Shroeger
got a 12-bolt diff for his 442 from him. Window glass, etc. More about him
later. He had a gorgeous 68 442 & 68 H/O on the hill, for sale, sorta. Got a 68
MT-car clutch rod firewall pass-thru, just what I needed for the beast in the
garage. Set of Chro-mo pushrods for a 455 for cheap.
  Got Bryceman squared away with his Starfire parts Yesterday, so if anyone
needs 65 Starfire parts other than the buckets & console... let me know. GREAT
door panels, dash is OK, has clock, vacuum trunk unlatch, 3.23 10-bolt posi,
PWindows, no motor, remnants of a switch-pitch TH400, good hood, decklid,
grillestuffs, few pcs of body side trim.
=====================

On the way to the farm to unload all the unsold swap meet stuff... blew out a
tire on the trailer. All happens for a reason, I guess... Got Bryce fixed up &
on his way, set about finding a tire, as the trailer fulla W-parts was sitting
on the hiway shoulder. So, on the way thru town to find a tire, I spot a very
clean 67 Cutlass. Figure, day's shot anyhow, mitaswell stop-n-say-hi. What a
Cutlass! Near-perfect chrome. Excellent bamboo? paint [I am NOT a
colors-oriented guy...]. Get to jawin' with him... "Just a driver" he calls
it... Yeah, with a full roll cage... and 2 kid seats in the back! A row of
gages [screw the correct spelling] in the dash, nicely done. We inspect the
motor... a 455, E heads, VERY NICE, then he points out the ... fuel injection
setup! Holly Pro-jection? Impressive. Hydraboost PBrakes on account of the
rowdy cam. Wild, huge-tube headers. 12-bolt w/ obligatory W27 cover, of course.
This car was to die for. Dern near as nice as Handren's.  We exchanged phone
ª's, as he needs some 68 convertible parts, and I'm due to pick up another 69
parts convertible soon.
====================
Local guy has a 66 Cutlass convertible for sale, went to see. Not bad at 1st
glance, ding here & there, needs everything, but runs & drives. Sizable dent in
decklid, but hardly ANY rust on the lip- unusual. 330 motor, the big 4V carb.
Would make nice project, and he's asking $2500. Maybe less now that I pointed
out that the huge hole rusted thru the frame. :O So, good project if you have a
frame or can weld up this one. He just wants it to go away to a good home, make
an offer if interested. Lansing, MI area.
=====================
More on the latter days of the centennial when I can get the time to type it.



- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:29:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Solid Main Web 403's again?

OK, folks, I have a person who claims for sure to know of a SMW 403 motor in
drag use. Seems to know his stuff. I await photos with bated breath.
  Here's some of what he says...

> Subject: Re: 403 Solid Main Web Debate
> Chris -
> Yeah, I've heard alot of the same stories that you have concerning the SMW
> blocks. I even saw one fellow WELD up the holes with a stick welder and a 
high
> nickel rod. This didn't work too well, as the block cracked after about ten 
or

Ooooops! At lest JB Weld doesn't make the block crack!

> so passes. But it was worth a try, I guess. But, again, rest assured, this
> block was the real thing. I haven't talked to the owner of this block in some
> time; I'll do my best to get a hold of him and make arrangements to take some
> photos. This probably won't be any big deal, as this guy likes to freshen up
> his motors pretty often. And don't worry about payment of any sort, I'll be
> glad to share any knowledge or experience that I can provide for no cost. We

What a guy! I was/ am prepared to pay for such proof!

> Oldsmobile lovers have to stick together so we can kick everyone else'd butt
> and prove that the Olds motor is the absolute best engineered GM motor out
> there! I will write back as soon as I have more info.
>     One other item of interest - I have some detailed drawings of a main
> girdle for Olds motors similar to the one Ford guys are using. I manufactured
> one of these from 4130 on a mill, and it worked fabulously. The motor which
> this girdle is currently installed on is a 425 that makes 630 horses on motor
> (tested on a dyno in Huntsville, Ala.) and has three stages of nitrous on top
> of that. The motor has been together for three years now, and has had no 
botto
> end failures of any type, other than a stuck oil pump relief spring. This 
moto
> uses a 425 steel crank and well-prepped STOCK forged rods. The only drawback 
t
> this type of girdle is that extensive pan mods are necessary. But for the
> benefits, this is a small price to pay, in my opinion.

Gol-dang! 630 Hp and THEN you hit the giggle gas?!

- --Previous messages began as follows:

> > > Hello, I think I might have some useful info for you -
> > >     I recently built and installed a 1977 403 that does indeed have the
> > > solid main web into a friend's car. This block was without a doubt a 403 
s
olid
> > > web block, and was produced in 1977. This block was the only of its type 
t
hat
> > > have ever had contact with; The motor is currently in a race car that 
runs
> > > 11.30's (on motor). I will do my best to get in touch with my friend to 
se
e if
> > > the motor might possibly be for sale. But rest assured, there were indeed
403
> > > blocks manufactured in '77 that had the solid main web. I will contact 
you
 as
> > > soon as I have more info.

- --to which the RS replied:

> > Allrighty, then. Although, I must say I've heard this same story before,
> > followed by, "oh, THOSE HOLES, I guess it's NOT a SMW unit!"
> >
> > So, next time the motor's apart, get some photos, send them off to me, I 
sen
> > you guys about $50 worth of Chro-mo oil pump drive rods & main cap girdles?
> > heads? Whatever you'd like.
> >
> > I'll even buy the block off you after you break it [God forbid!] just for 
an
> > example. Say, this isn't one of them solid-main-web by use of popsicle 
stick
> > JB Weld is it? Heh.

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:31:14 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

                                        C&M Classic Parts

New Parts:
68-69 Rallye Pac. tach and gauges (no harness)  $325.00
70-72 455 Std. Iron intake manifold (auto cars)  $75.00
71-72 W-455 Aluminum intake ((2) 1/8th in repaired cracks, nice) $675.00
70 Sport Mirrors (2 nice sets)  $155.00 set

We have also got a 66 442 F-85 Post coupe for sale. Car has a perfect body,
nice black bucket/console interior, mint F-85 steering wheel, beautiful
bumpers, built 10:1 350 w/328 degree duration cam, built TH400 w/2400 RPM
stall converter, Flowmasters,  radio delete, steel wheels with dog dishes
(15x8 rear, 14x5.5 front) new tires. Car is in URO primer. Asking $3000.00
as is or $3800 painted any color. If you have a color choice please let us
know soon, otherwise it will be painted white. This is a fair price for such
a straight car without the original drivetrain.

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts
(757) 474-0869

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 350 vs. 403

i own a 403 that i am willing to sell and i was thinking around $375.  it is
a complete motor and it runs.  where are you located?  is it possible to send
an engine through the mail?  i am currently rebuilding the 350 (not for sale)
to replace the 403.  i think that the 350 is a faster engine compared to the
403 and only 5 HP difference.  with some aftermarket parts i will have 5+ HP
without the weight of the bigger motor.

[[ As Joe said, the motors are identical except for piston, wrist pin, and bore
size. Where's the weight penalty?

He also quite concisely ran thru the other structural differnces. Good luck
finding a Solid Main Web 403 motor. Then again, for all but 600HP race motors,
it's not necessary; the metallurgy of the 403's is quite well done. Plus, 350
heads on the 403 is an ultra-easy compression boost. Well, *most* 350 heads,
not much boost from the common ª8 heads.

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:22:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Transes, car corral

[[ on the centennial car corral entries...]]

One had a sign that said something like "I will be driving this car or
flying to California on Sunday".  I guess he was trying to vouch for it's
roadworthiness and dependability.  I don't remember what car it was.

[[ I remember it being a '61 or '62 Cutlass- the wife wanted it real bad, but
they were asking $8500. She was liking it a lot. ]]

===============
as far as i know about rear wheel drive oldsmobiles there are only 2 kinds a
TH 350 and a TH 400.  you can tell the difference by looking at the pan.  if
you give me a general discription of the trans pan i can tell you which one
it is.

[[ There's also the TH375: Guts of a TH400, but with the girly output shaft of
a TH350. -RS]]
==============
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Vaughn 72 H/O burnout

they (the police) LOVED my burnout with Linda Vaughn (guess she had something
to do with their approval!)  DID ANYONE GET A GOOD VIDEO OF THIS??? Since I was
driving, I missed getting any action shots of my 72 H//O in the parade! Please
email me directly to save bandwidth, I'll pay for your trouble if you got me
some good shots

[[ Why not try the local TV stations... WLNS comes to mind. Surely SOMEONE got
that on video or film.

Speaking of which, I have a few photos myself, very few. :-(
But a couple interesting ones. And, man, would I pay for a a video or two of
the stuff I missed! Please, yes, do that project!

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:42:31 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: test

- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: my toro

Been driving the '68 [note the year, you centennial-going list guys!] Toro for
about a week now, for a 30 yr old car, it does quite well. The new job, which
is a vast improvement btw, is about 20 miles away, a nice drive. The Toro
shines. I drive along, smoothly and in radio-free exhaust-hum silence, and the
early morning sun creates a silhouette of the car on the cattails which grow
lush in the ditches. The car rides smoothly, quietly, stately, solid. Some
small vibration and wandering, which I KNOW a set of tires and an alignment
would take care of.
  The 67 425 motor has a few snafus, seems low on power, has had a long and
rough life I sense. And, the 3.08 gears just seem to choke it, the 425 was
supposed to have 3.23 gears in a Toro. Try as I might in the Holiday Hotel
parking lot, she will not smoke the tires. Blue flashing lite was a hit,
though.
  She leaks oil out the front like I own a refinery- front main seal, or pan-to
timing cover? No time to find out yet. Keeps the underside lubed anyhow. Got
her on the freeway Friday, to drop off the old work clothes at the old work
place... was doing an indicated 90, keeping up with the fast lane. Comes a nice
downhill, no bothersome officers in view, just had to roll her up to 100 mph...
still as smooth as can be, barring that tire vibration. Nice. Hate to lose her,
but must sell. The 442's need attention first, and the Toro needs a dozen
piddly but time consuming things fixed: vinyl top, wipers, headlight hideaway
feature, correct motor refreshed, cruise repaired, etc.
  So, anyone need a nice driver candidate Toro? $1500 to a good home. Andy, the
guy at the centennial with the outrageously NICE modified 68 Toro, wanted it...
for the interior, which is real nice. Dark green interior, dark green exterior
which used to be light green.
 --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Back from Lansing and sightings.

In a message dated 97-08-30 03:22:44 EDT, you write:

<< On sightings, we live next to the University of Central Florida campus.  I
 saw an absolutely beautiful, rust free 72 Hoilday coupe Cutlass being driven
 by a student.  It has Illinois plates and is _rust free_!  Probably an
 elderly family member owned it.

 The kid is using it to deliver pizza part time. He was driving the spit oit
 of it. The last time I saw it the left front fender was cratered and covered
 with plastic filler.  Sad.  I don't bother looking it for it any more. It
 will be a crusher candidate before that kid graduates, drops out or
whatever.
 A real shame.

 Obvioulsy this kid is not Phi Beta Kappa material. :-)

 Bob (Dead on Michigan Avenue and now internationally embarassed) Handren
   >>

Hey Bob thats really a shame to hear...bet if somebody offered him a
really "nice" Honda or something.....who knows......TIM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:01:59 -0700
From: Brad Bowles <wolds@napanet.net>
Subject: Rear end info needed

I need any/all information avalable about my differential.  I have a 70
442 with a 12 bolt cover.  This is what I know so far... let me know if
it is wrong...

Actually a 10 bolt ring gear
8.5" ring gear
28 spline axle
3.23 gears - this I know for sure

any other info avalable will be helpful
thanks
Brad
70 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 97 21:45:07 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Drag car buildup advice needed

Hello all,

Jason Labay wrote:

I plan to build me a 95% drag 5% cruise car over the winter am seeking
advice from those who have "been there done that..or are still doing it
:-)" I have 3 Olds to choose from for the buildup: 72 Cutlass Supreme...

     Jason,

     As you have hinted, the 72 will be the best choice from a parts
     availability standpoint, given the commonality with the Shivelle.  I'm
     not sure how far you intend to go (narrowed frame and tubs?), but 4,
     8, 10, and 12 point roll cages are available for the A-body, as well
     as a complete narrowed rear frame kit with ladder bar suspension.  In
     addition, VFN fiberglass makes a one-piece front end for this body - I
     used one on the 71 Cutlass that the ex got in the divorce :(.

     Of course, the 455 is a bolt-in, and (contrary to the opinions of many
     on the list) headers fit pretty easily.  Any suspension parts you can
     imagine are available, in addition to the 3" exhaust system.  And most
     importantly, if you intend to drive the car on the street at all, the
     72 will be much easier to get past smog inspection than either the 80
     or the 75 (you don't really intend to cut up the H/O, do you?).

     I was moving in this direction with the 71 right up until the divorce,
     so I might be able to help with questions you might have on an A-body
     based project.

     Good luck

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:22:01 -0300
From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: List not working?

Hello to anyone that is on the list who is still getting e-mail.  I am not,
and I don't know why.  If you are reading this, please e-mail me
personally, to help me troubleshoot.  If it  is not the list, then it must
be me.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:14:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Drag races on Labor day weekend.....  a few cars spotted... (longish)

Wow, we went to see some local drag races nearby us at Byron Dragway, and had
a great time.  Took both kids, and the wife for a few hours of watching cars
and bikes.  Saw a few things that were nice.  First off, the had somebody
there that I didn't expect, Nick Scavo whos name regularly apperas in the
fastest street car shootouts, etc.  He has a full size '65 (I think it's a
'65...) Impala which runs 8.8's in the 1/4... wow, what a site.  His real
claim to fame with that car is that it does this while weighing 4000 lbs.!
 Very nice looking car, I'd guess it is somewhat of a local track for him
since he comes from the Chicago area....

Next outrageous site was a quad runner (4 wheel dirt toy) which raced in the
motorcycle class.  We saw it go by us when we first came in, and it sounded
really healthy (for a two stroke that means it sounded like a few dozen chain
saws going at the same time....), and it had wheelie bars..... (huh..., kinda
funny, wonder what he needs those for.....   looks neat tho..).  Well later
he runs the 1/4 at 9.5 sec, at 130 mph!!!!!!!  What a trip!

Then there were a few Olds' around also.  Didn't get to talk to the guys
driving :(, maybe next time....  anyways... there was a '64 Cutlass running
in the pro-street doing mid-9's, but lost in an early round.  There was a '69
Cutlass, and a late 60's-early 70's Cutlass, both were w-30's, or 31's (sorry
guys....   I was trying to watch everything) both had the hoods with the OAI
on them....  One was gold, the other silver w/black race stripes over the
top.

 There were also a few mid-80's Cutlai.... :) that were running anywhere from
mid-15's, to 12's.  Not bad looking cars, wish I had a chance to hunt down
the owners, and talk for a bit.... As I said... next time....  I'm going to
try and make it back in a few weeks.....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 01:57:13 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet

mrada wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Wow it sure is quite on the list today.  Only got three messages.
> Y'all must be on vacation.
>
> NON_OLDS:  Isn't it a shame about what happened to Diana Spencer.  It
>  sure has killed my holiday spirit.
>
> Later....
> Chris Sparks

Chris,

Boy am I glad to receive your message on the server.  I did not have a
single message come across and thought I had pushed the wrong button or
had bad breath or something.  At least I know the mail today was really
slow for some reason.  How was the weather in your part of the world
today?  It was close to 90 and sunny here in central Kentucky.  Played
in the state class E softball tournament and about died but finished
fifth.  Should have won it because our two losses were due to self
inflicted stupidity.  Had a good time though.  Found out Friday my wife
did not have cancer again so it is hard to not be happy.  Did see a
70-72 Cutlass (color Tennessee orange, ugh) going up I-75 that looked in
good shape.

Hope the Labor Day weekend is going well for you.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 03:13:46 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: 70 Paint Codes

At 05:59 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
To All,

        The Paint color in question is Rally Red. It's actually alot more
orange than red. Cars painted this color or any of the 4 special order paint
colors offered in 70 should have  - - on the data plate under the hood. I
don't have my paint code chart handy to give the code number for this color.

Jim Chermack


>I received the following inquiry off my web page.  I know a few of you have
>the paint code book(s) and can probably give me a correct response.  Please
>post it to the list - it'll undoubtedly come in handy somewhere.
>
>i understand there only a few (1970 442 W-30 convertibles)  with a certain
>          color
>          : which is orange in color but has a different name. i would like to
>          find out for sure.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Lisa Madsen
>Anaheim, CA
>
>My cars & their alias'
>'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
>'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
>'69 Toronado (Toro II)
>'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)
>
>Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
>My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 03:24:53 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Rear end info needed

At 08:01 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need any/all information avalable about my differential.  I have a 70
>442 with a 12 bolt cover.  This is what I know so far... let me know if
>it is wrong...
>
>Actually a 10 bolt ring gear
>8.5" ring gear
>28 spline axle
>3.23 gears - this I know for sure
>
>any other info avalable will be helpful
>thanks
>Brad
>70 442
>

Brad

        You've got it right so far. The other bad thing is that rebuild kits
for the anti-spin are expensive and difficult to find. Supercars in Oregon
are one of the few companies I know that carry them. The other item of note
is that there are only three gear sets offered for it anymore. Unless you
find a NOS or used set, they are 3.42, 3.90, and 4.10. They are made by
Richmond Gear. Anyone else who has them are getting them from Richmond. They
run about $200 for the ring and pinion. Another oddity is there are three
different axles seal types for this rear depending on year of manufacture.
Theoretically the 68 rear should be the strongest with the 31 spline axles
and side gears. Bolts holding the ring gear on are actually larger than the
12 bolts holding the Ch*vy 12 bolt ring to it's carrier. Which I have
snapped.  My $.02.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 02:43:07 PDT
From: "chris smetana" <chris@abcs.com>
Subject: lansing and misc

Well, I decided to scrap the digest idea and go to real time.  I don't like the
way digests are done (personal taste) and I'm finally caught up on the last 8
digests.

Let's see...What I bought at Lansing
Well, actually not enough if that's possible.
- --I bought a couple 69 W-31 articles and a W-31 ad, all from 1969 magazines
for $25 - --From the RE Olds Museum.  I ordered the Doc Olds posters for $48,
these are fricking awesome.  Funny story, I was with Dave Wyatt at the museum
and when I see the posters a lady comes over and says, yeah we're the only ones
that are reproducing these and these are the first time they are available.
Dave goes I got a couple of these many years ago.  The lady goes, you couldn't
have these have just been recently released for the first time.  Dave then 
tells
her, he got them at the Indy? auto show in 69 and they are the original mccoys.
The lady didn't want to believe him that he had a couple of these posters. - 
--I
also talked with Mike Siedlik about his under bumper scoops and as soon as they
are available I will pay the $350 for them.  He said in about 2 months they
should be done. - --girlfriend bought me a 69 paint chip sheet $6 - --she also
bought me an Olds leather key chain and W-31 pin $unknown, but this plus a
Saturn keychain and pin where under $20 I think - --talked with Bob Cline who
runs Desert Dog Auto Parts, the person I bought my W-31 from and he said he is
parting out a 69 4-4-2 and could give me ALL the rear end sheetmetal for $800,
so I'm considering that. Can't think of anything else right now

Jim Chermack, you actually found a 69-72 NOS rear wing for $125??!?!??!?!?!
Man, I saw someone who had one for $425 or there abouts.  I must have missed
this one or I would have bought it easily.  You wouldn't be selling it would 
ya?

To the person looking for the 71 ram air hood.  Bob Cline has one from a 71 or
72 car.  it was removed very early and looks flawless, nice bright blue paint.
He had a swap meet space at Lansing and had it there.  He is asking $1000.
email address is ddogap@aol.com  he runs Desert Dog Auto Parts, let him know I
sent ya.  (hopefully he will give me more of a discount on the 69 442 half car
that I'm considering getting from him)

Mick Gillespie, did you say your 69 has manual brakes??  It wouldn't by chance
be discs in front would it??

Cars not in Lansing..
Did anyone by chance see any 69 W31s ????  I saw the dozen or so 70s on the
bridge and Dave Wyatt told me about the 68 Ram Rod, original owner, restored,
blah, blah, blah,  damn I wished I could have seen it,  Oh well.

Really enjoyed putting faces with names at the thurs get together.  And no, no
one looks like what I was expecting them to.

Well that's enough for now as its approaching 4am and I need to get some sleep.
Sorry for any misspelled names.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris@abcs.com
69 W-31 plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 05:55:10 -0400
From: "MROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: '69 H/O

- ----------
From: Lloyd W. Culp <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: '69 H/O
Date: Saturday, August 30, 1997 7:01 AM


1969 Olds/Hurst, auto, V8 (that must be rare), air, ª117 of 906

One thing to note on this.  If it is in good condition, and all there, it
is an excellent deal.  Another note:  The ª117 doesn't mean it is the 117th
H/O for 69.  All it means is that the original owner was the 117th to send
in his Hurst registration card, and his plaque ª was 117.   (The ª1
registered car actually has a higher VIN number than the first few built,
the owner just got his/hers in first.)

If anyone is interested in the car, but unsure as how to verify its
originality, contact me and I'll fill you in.

I might even call myself to get info for list members.  I, in no way, shape
or form am interested in purchasing another 69 H/O, but I'll help anyone
out who wants to buy one.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:48:49 -0300
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@orbital.com>
Subject: 68-69 442 Body Data Plates

     I now have Oldsmobile factory documentation of the use of 336XX body
     data plates on 344XX VIN 442s in 1968 and 1969.  In addition, it isn't
     only 442s which had this discrepancy!

     While researching the mystery 442 I've recently written about, I came
     across several pages in the factory parts book which have tables
     cross-referencing Oldsmobile Sales Model Code with Fisher Body Model
     Code.  The table for 1968 Oldsmobile Models is reproduced below:
     (Note that "OLDS SALES MODEL CODE" represents digits 2 through 5 of
     the VIN, with digit 1 always being a "3" to represent Oldsmobile)

     ======================================================================
     MODELS                     OLDS SALES      FISHER BODY
                                MODEL CODE      MODEL CODE
     ======================================================================
     F-85 SIX

     Town Sedan                 3169            68-33269
     Club Coupe                 3177            68-33277
     ______________________________________________________________________
     CUTLASS SIX

     2-Seat Station Wagon       3535            68-33635
     Holiday Sedan              3539            68-33639
     Convertible                3567            68-33667
     Town Sedan                 3569            68-33669
     Sports Coupe               3577            68-33677
     Holiday Coupe              3587            68-33687
     ______________________________________________________________________
     F-85 V-8

     Town Sedan                 3269            68-33269
     Club Coupe                 3277            68-33277
     ______________________________________________________________________
     CUTLASS V-8

     2-Seat Station Wagon       3635            68-33635
     Holiday Sedan              3639            68-33639
     Convertible                3667            68-33667
     Town Sedan                 3669            68-33669
     Sports Coupe               3677            68-33677
     Holiday Coupe              3687            68-33687
     ______________________________________________________________________
     CUTLASS SUPREME V-8

     Holiday Sedan              4239            68-34239
     Town Sedan                 4269            68-34269
     Holiday Coupe              4287            68-34287
     ______________________________________________________________________
     CUSTOM VISTA CRUISER V-8
     2-Seat Wagon               4855            68-34855
     3-Seat Wagon               4865            68-34865
     ______________________________________________________________________
     4-4-2 HIGH PERFORMANCE V-8

     Convertible                4467           *68-33667
     Sports Coupe               4477           *68-33677
     Holiday Coupe              4487           *68-33687
     ======================================================================
     *SPECIAL NOTE:  33600 models shown with a * in the Fisher Model Code
     have the Hi Performance V-8 and are designated the 4-4-2, which is the
     4400 series in the Oldsmobile Sales Model Code
     ======================================================================

     So there you have it.  The 1969 table is the same (with an additional
     discrepancy on the wagons to differentiate the dual-action tailgate
     from the normal unit).

     Note that not only does the 442 (or 4-4-2, in Fisher Body lingo...but
     let's not resurrect _that_ thread!) get a body code that doesn't match
     the VIN, but so do the six cylinder F-85 and Cutlass models.  In
     researching this further, it appears that Fisher Body only had four
     different configurations for the bodies they produced for Oldsmobile:
     F-85, Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme, and Vista Cruiser.  Naturally, Fisher
     Body didn't care if the car would be getting a six or an eight, as all
     the changes were in the chassis.  The only differences which mattered
     to them were in the interior trim and exterior chrome.  This also
     applies to the 442, which (in 68-69) had Cutlass interior panels and
     exterior chrome trim.

     I'll be happy to fax or mail copies of these pages to anyone who's
     interested. Just email me (privately) with your fax number or mailing
     address.  If I can get them scanned, I'll send them to Bryceman for
     posting on the web page as well.

     I hope this clears up the mystery of the 344XX VIN with the 336XX body
     plate.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:43:16 -0500
From: "James L. Smith" <floydfan@wiltel.net>
Subject: Re: Big small block

At 06:13 AM 8/31/97 GMT, you wrote:
>>Has anyone here ever put 425 pistons in a 330 block????
>>I have been told they with fit with proper overbore and that the pin
>>height is the same.
>
>All '64-'67 Olds V-8's (330, 400, 425, excluding the 394) had a pin height
>of 1.615", so theoretically the pistons would interchange if you could bore
>the block out. The piston sizes were:
>
>330- 3.9385"
>400- 4.000"
>425- 4.125"
>
>So, a .0615" overbore (pretty reasonable) would allow a 330 to use a 400ci
>piston to make a 340ci motor, but it would need a .1865" (!) to use a 425ci
>piston, which would result in a 362ci motor.
>
>But...
>
>an Olds 350 normally uses the same 1.615" pin height, and begins with a
>4.057" bore, so it would need only a .068" overbore to use the 425 piston
>and get that 362ci; a bit more reasonable, but still a big overbore.
>
>And to think, I was going to throw out those old Toro 425 pistons... Might
>give some decent compression with their shallow dishes in that old 350 I've
>got in my friend's garage.
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>Bob,
        I'm using 350 pistons in my 400. On the way back up and i've noticed
the skirt length is approx a 1/2" shorter than the .030 pistons I removed.
Any need for major concern? Also, My uncle (1967 state King of the Hill
Winner)says I should have my block line bored and deck height checked even
if I'm not tracking the car. His reasoning is due to main bearing wear I
found upon tear down. I would value your thoughts as well as others out there.

Jim Smith
65 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:37:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: List was down, Digest now closed

Just for info... it seems that on Sunday all of Chebucto's mail service
was down... seems cleared up now. Explains the lack of Olds mail.

After making the list closed, spam still was making it to the digest. A
config change was made late last week to hopefully fix the problem. We'll
see...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:35:32 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet

Chris,

 It is a sad time.  Here's praying that the intense drive for personal
publicity & glory combined with the insane interest in the failings of
others is at least moderated.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama





>Hi all,
>
>Wow it sure is quite on the list today.  Only got three messages.
>Y'all must be on vacation.
>
>NON_OLDS:  Isn't it a shame about what happened to Diana Spencer.  It
> sure has killed my holiday spirit.
>
>Later....
>Chris Sparks
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:39:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: List was down, Digest now closed

Just for info... it seems that on Sunday all of Chebucto's mail service
was down... seems cleared up now. Explains the lack of Olds mail.

After making the list closed, spam still was making it to the digest. A
c*nfig change was made late last week to hopefully fix the problem. We'll
see...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 07:42:12 -0700
From: markops@Traveller.COM
Subject: 1985 OLDS Cutlass Parts

Hey,
Hope everyone had a safe Labor Day Weekend. Wanted to let you know I got
my 85 442 up and running again after the wreck - its been about a month
and a half since the incident. I ended up buying a parts car a couple of
weekends ago. My brotherinlaw and I removed the entire front clip
assembly of the parts car and replaced all the damaged items on my 442.
I was surprised that everything bolted up. A little bit of primer and it
looks great - at least the front end. I still need to get it to a shop
to look at the damage in the rear. Anyways, found a brand new triple
core replacement radiator for only $114 !!!! from a shop here in town.
After replacing the radiator and alternator bracket and battery the car
runs excellent - drives a bit squirley, though. The tire on the damaged
side is displaced approximately 1/2" axially - you can see that about
1/2" of the lower control arm bushing sitting out. Need to get that
fixed.

Ive got a 1985 2-Door Cutlass (non-442) parts car sitting in the
backyard next to my swingset. My wife was ok with it, but I give it two
weeks before the neighbors start asking me about it. Im wondering if
anybody on the list is interested in anything off this car before it
gets towed away. Let me give you a brief description.
I live in Madison County Alabama, the car is a brown  85 with no front
clip or hood (right inner/outer fender still there), no front
windshield, no driver side door, no driver side upper/lower control arm.
Let me tell you what its got: has a 307 with a 3-speed trans - guy told
me that it siezed up one day (i dont think its been running for a long
time). It does not have anti freeze mixed in with the oil. Interior is
maroon - good back seat with a bench type front seat and column shifter.
All the glass is good.  Since I got the car for $250, if any one is
interested in taking anything off - come get it. If any one is
interested in a specific item - email me, I might consider sending it.

Thanks.

Pete M.

(85 Cutlass 442 / 71 Chevelle Malibu)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:49:09 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: 1958 Olds 88 (fwd)

>Hope one of you can assist this lady.
>I told her the usual: Join OCA, get a Hemming's, write to Olds history
Center
>[forgot the address though]. Consult the FAQ. Sent her Franklin Graf's ad
from
>the latest JWO- he does 50's Rocket motors.
>
>What else can we do for her? Give her a nice welcome email if you can, eh?
>
>> We've just purchased a 1958 Olds 88 that our teen-age son wants to
>> restore.  It is in good shape body-wise, but we've pulled the
>> motor/transmission.  Supposedly it is a 271?

I believe that it is a 371.

and we haven't found
>> anyone that has a reuild kit or parts to fit.

Look at Kanter's Auto Products.  PH 1-800-526-1096 for a catalog of parts.

We thought maybe we would
>> just replace.  Can this motor be made to run and is it really
>> expensive.  We though we would be better off changing it to something
>> more popular so parts would be readily available.    Anyway I'm trying
>> to find out info.  Please help a worried mom!

The replacement would be more expensive & create more problems to solve.
Chances are that there would be problems w/the power steering, there would
need ot be a new transmission & driveshaft work, the shift quadrant on the
dash wouldn't indicate the proper gears anymore, many accessories would have
to be modified or changed altogether, there would be wiring harness changes
required, etc., etc..

These are fine engines that are repaired all the time w/no problems.  I
would find a good older mechanic, start rounding up some parts for him, &
just enjoy the car.
>>
>> Also how can I get information on how many of these cars are known to
>> exist today?

These are not seen everyday, but are not actually rare either.  Thousands
were built & several hundred probably exist now.
>>
>> Thanks for your help.  This is my work e-mail.  If you would prefer to
>> send a message to my hom it is RStan14950aol.com.
>>  Thanks, Jean Stanley
>>
>
>
>--
>Chris  B. Witt
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª828
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