To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #850


oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, September 16 1997     Volume 01 : Number 850



OAI Hoods
Re: Twin batteries
RE: OAI Hoods
Re: E-400 motor
Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.
Re: I hope I didn't screw up my tranny
Re: Internut
Re: twin batteries
RE: 84 H/O engine swap
Re: rebuilding olds 403
Re: Twin batteries
Hurst parts
Re: Twin batteries
Sampling of Lansing Pics up!
Re: Sampling of Lansing Pics up!
Re: Twin batteries
1969 442 Question
RE:  Sampling of Lansing Pics. up!
Re: 1969 442 Question
Re: Twin batteries
Re: Twin batteries
Re: Twin batteries
OAI Hoods
Re: External Therm.
Re: 1969 442 Question
Re[2]: 1969 442 Question
Re: Twin batteries, a little long...
Re: Hurst parts
Chrome Plating
Re: OAI Hoods
Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: A better mechanical fuel pump
Need info re Windows
Re: Terry's 68 455
Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.
Re: Terry's 68 455
Re: Any T-top advice?
Re: 1969 442 Question
Re: Chrome Plating
Re: Need info re Windows
Grey Ghost ?
Re: Grey Ghost ?
Ols in Europe
NON-OLDS?
Re: Chrome Plating
Re: OAI Hoods
72 442 - How do ya tell real or fake
Re: OOPS!  69 console colors
Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale
Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale
200-4R Info...(LONG)
Re: Grey Ghost ?
9000 RPM 403
Re: External Therm.
Re: A better mechanical fuel pump
Re: External Therm.
Engine ID

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:23:54 -0500
From: Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
Subject: OAI Hoods

Reading about the difficulty and the prices for an OAI hood reminds me
of the time I was wanting one for a 70 cutlass. I did finally find one
for around $1000.00 but did not need it anymore because of not having
the car anymore. I do remember talking to and looking at a hood a guy
had about 150 miles from where I live. I asked him where he picked up
the hood and how much, his reply was that back in about 1974 he was at
his local Oldsmobile dealer to pick up some parts for his 1969 W31, as
he was standing there they were unloading a 1970 Ram Air Hood when all
of a sudden they dropped it and the original owner would not take it, so
this gentelman looked at it and asked how much there reply was $100.00
and the hood had almost no visible damage. He of course already
realizing these would someday be very valuable bought it and to this day
still has not used it. He would not sell it though when I asked.
Just another interesting story.

Thanks
Tom Williams
70 W31 OCA ª28886

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:21:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: AllNiteLng@aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

       In a parallel hook-up the cranking amps are added together but the
voltage stays the same. In a series hook-up the voltage of each battery is
added but the cranking amps remain the same.


2-12 volt, 700 c.a. hooked up parallel = 12 volts and 1400 c.a.

2-12 volt, 700 c.a. hooked up in series =24 volts and 700 c.a.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:39:17 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: OAI Hoods

Year Ones hood sold for $499 back in 93. I don't know if they still sell
it now or not. USA Parts has theirs listed at $425 in there current
catalog.  Brothers does not have one listed.

If the quality is the trouble with these hoods, why hasn't the
manufacture corrected it? ( Just thinking out loud here). How much more
would they cost if they did. Maybe the gentleman ( Sorry I don't
remember his name) from Brothers could check this out. Does anyone know
who the manufacture is. I guess Year One or USA Parts would tell if they
were asked.

What  is the trouble with the hood they are selling now? Can someone on
the list that has ordered one lately explain or expand on this.

Bobby

70 442
Escape Back to the...Past

-----Original Message-----
From:Mike Rothe [SMTP:MROTHE@prodigy.net]
Sent:Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:02 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: OAI Hoods

tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:
>
> All this talk about difficulty finding OAI hoods at any price,
and the
> astronomical prices asked for the ones which are to be found,
makes me
> wonder how difficult it would be to find proper manufacturers
for the
> various required pieces and just have a couple hundred of them
built.

Tom,  you are right.  But you gotta make sure the market is
there.
Right now, myself and another 69 H/O owner are looking into
re-popping
the mirror gaskets for the strange looking mirrors.  Expensive
proposition, but not unreachable.  Again, market???  If only two
people
want them, then it would be hard to justify a large outlay.

With the hoods, it may be easier, albeit more expensive by far,
to get
the market wanting them.  If someone could pull this off, for as
much or
less than the current market price for an original........you
will be
famed....

It reminds me of the time I was at the Olds dealer a long time
ago...71
OAI hood?  That will run you 279.00 + tax... OUCH!  Too
expensive for a
hood, I thought.......those were the days.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:44:40 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: E-400 motor

Chris - I could use one of those *magic* flywheels as well for my '67 442
originating 400.  Privately e-mail me the details.....


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:41:18 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.

And you guys think I'm bad - Greg's just catching up.  Although I still
think Jason Labay is WAY out in front :-)


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:51:25 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: I hope I didn't screw up my tranny

Should we tell these "youngsters" about neutral slamming, etc??  I had a
friend deliberately do this for ....months.....to get rid of one of the 2
speed Jetaways he didn't want anymore (don't ask why he did that instead of
*simply* removing it & replacing it).


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Internut

- --M&D Gillespie  wrote:
 John,

Consider joining your page to the 'Oldsmobile WebRing' that Jason
Adcock started.  Just click on the icon at the bottom of my webpage
(the url is below).
 It's kinda neat to have each Olds subject page linked to each other.

 Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
 69 Cutlass S convertible
 mgillespie@sprynet.com
 http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did ! Thanks !

===
John Pajak                       Information Spectrum Inc.
Network Installation Team
Naval Air Station, Patuxent River, Maryland

HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

JSPajak@rocketmail.com

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:53:17 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: twin batteries

I used to have a '79 GMC truck with a gas 350 Olds for power.  It had
been a diesel originally and both batteries were retained when it was
converted to gas.  The batteries lasted forever and it always started in
sub-zero (-30 f) weather.  The 350 was of unknown vintage with the large
spark plugs and a two barrel carb.  From my experience with dual
batteries, I would recomend it to anyone.

Dave Wyatt
70 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:05:58 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: RE: 84 H/O engine swap

>I understand that all accessories from the 307 will bolt on to the 350, I
>know I need 350 heads w/AIR , but do all the years that 350's were made
>have all of the attachment points? (for AC brackets, PS etc... )  Or should
>I look for certain ones?

If the AIR tubes screw into the heads themselves, then any 350 heads will
work, as long as you drill the existing AIR bosses and tap them. That
shouldn't be too big of a deal.

The rest of your plan sounds pretty well thought-out. The computer only
controls the primary side of the carb, and the system can be modifed to work
with the larger engine.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:05:59 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: rebuilding olds 403

>At the moment I am rebuilding an olds 403 and I wonder how to make it
>faster/stronger.
>If possible I want to make it  turn about 8/9000 rpm.
>What must I change from the original to accomplish that.

Well, you'd have to change just a few things:

1) The block
2) The crank
3) The pistons
4) The heads
5) The intake
6) The valvetrain
7) The oiling system
8) The carb
9) The exhaust
10) The ignition system

All-in-all, I'd say it'd be easier to modify your tachometer to read about
double the actual engine speed, since the practical limit of the 403 is
about half of what you're shooting for.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:15:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

In a message dated 97-09-16 00:19:53 EDT, you write:

<< On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 RCKTPWR@aol.com wrote:

 > ..............-42.......nj doesnt seem to bad at
 > all,......-42???????!!!!!!!!!!
 >
 Yes, last winter I ran a '75 Impala, 350, with a 550 CA battery, and we
 had -42 to -44 celcius every morning, plus wind, warming up maybe 3
 degrees all day.   >>

ERR, I REALLY HOPE YOU DONT MEAN CELCIUS???....tim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:30:47 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Hurst parts

I found a local guy here who says he has the heads, carb and aluminum
intake from a 83 HO.  He also has a 403 running.  I'm probably going to
take it all as a package deal.

Could anyone give me an idea on any stampings or codes on the Intake or
Heads, also carb numbers


Thanks

Robert Schinkel
1970 W-31, 442 Conv.,  Cutlass Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:49:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-09-16 00:19:53 EDT, you write:
>  > ..............-42.......nj doesnt seem to bad at
>  > all,......-42???????!!!!!!!!!!
>  >
>  Yes, last winter I ran a '75 Impala, 350, with a 550 CA battery, and we
>  had -42 to -44 celcius every morning, plus wind, warming up maybe 3
>  degrees all day.   >>
>
> ERR, I REALLY HOPE YOU DONT MEAN CELCIUS???....tim
>
Yes, celcius, though -40 =-40 in both scales, so -44 celcius = -47.2
farenheit, -42 = -43.6.....
Just a little non-olds tidbit, unless you had a thermometer on your olds,
which went to -40, where the two scales meet...

...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970912
..............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: <the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Sampling of Lansing Pics up!

Yes, You read that subject... I have just got done posting a sampling
of
the first set scanned of the pictures that I took at Lansing.  These
will all eventually find a home on Bryceman's web site, but for now
there are half a dozen of them available large and in living color at:
http://members.tripod.com/~rovernut/lansing.htm

Make sure you use (htm) not (html).  I might change these some as I
get more pictures scanned.  Warning, this page may be a bit slow as
the pictures are a bit large (scanned them at 150dpi).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:05:19 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Sampling of Lansing Pics up!

the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
Those pics came out pretty darn good!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

Hi Eric,

> I was thinking, since early 80's diesels all ran 2 battery's, with no
> switches, WHY NOT a car?????

I ran a dual battery setup in a '77 de Ville for about 1.5 years.  The 2
year old Motomaster (Canadian Tire brand, avoid these like the
plague!) battery was unable to crank the 425 at -18C (0F), so I
hooked up an 8 year old Delco in parallel with some 6 gauge wire.  I
joined the positive terminals together, then connected the second
battery's ground to the chassis.  This setup worked very well; there was
much less voltage drop while idling in drive when electrical loads were
high (picture a snow storm when the wipers, rear defroster, headlights,
and blower fan are all on in stop and go traffic).

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:15:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: NotDads442@aol.com
Subject: 1969 442 Question

Hi All,

I friend of mine just recently purchased a 1969 442 and has one what I think
should be a simple question for the list members.

His car has only the drivers side rear-view mirror on the car.  Is this
correct or should it have a rear-view mirror on the passenger side also?

Thanks in advance!
Cecil
1991 W-41
OCA ª29604

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: <the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE:  Sampling of Lansing Pics. up!

the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
Those pics came out pretty darn good!

Chris Sparks


Yah Chris, and just think... I've got 150 more of them where those
came from ;-).

There were a couple that came out so good, I might actually up the dpi
(for only a few) to maybe 175 or 200.

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:20:56 -0500
From: John Schumacher <jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu>
Subject: Re: 1969 442 Question

NotDads442@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I friend of mine just recently purchased a 1969 442 and has one what I think
> should be a simple question for the list members.
>
> His car has only the drivers side rear-view mirror on the car.  Is this
> correct or should it have a rear-view mirror on the passenger side also?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Cecil
> 1991 W-41
> OCA ª29604

Cecil,

Tell your friend a driver side chrome mirror mounted above the door trim
is correct.

- --
John "Shoe-Man" Schumacher
North Texas Olds Club ª25464 Dynamic 88
Dallas, Texas69 442
OCA ª02115174 Cutlass Supreme
mailto:jd.schumacher@baylordallas.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:49:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

In a message dated 97-09-16 12:12:39 EDT, you write:

<<
 I ran a dual battery setup in a '77 de Ville for about 1.5 years.  The 2
 year old Motomaster (Canadian Tire brand, avoid these like the
 plague!) battery was unable to crank the 425 at -18C (0F), so I
 hooked up an 8 year old Delco in parallel with some 6 gauge wire.  I
 joined the positive terminals together, then connected the second
 battery's ground to the chassis.  This setup worked very well; there was
 much less voltage drop while idling in drive when electrical loads were
 high (picture a snow storm when the wipers, rear defroster, headlights,
 and blower fan are all on in stop and go traffic).

 Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario,
Canada

  >>

Hmmm... just thinking, there's a few of us with '80s Cutlai :) up here
(Illinois, and North) that see some cold weather.  In our cars (at least
quite a few I've seen) there is a place for a second battery up front (by
removing the charcoal cannister from the other side), then just hook the neg.
up to the other side of the block, and run a battery cable over to the pos.
side of the other battery.  Hmmmmm....  would take care of probs. during cold
winter months (which they are saying we should expect more of this year....).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:05:58 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

Eric Aksomitis wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 97-09-16 00:19:53 EDT, you write:
> >  > ..............-42.......nj doesnt seem to bad at
> >  > all,......-42???????!!!!!!!!!!
> >  >
> >  Yes, last winter I ran a '75 Impala, 350, with a 550 CA battery, and we
> >  had -42 to -44 celcius every morning, plus wind, warming up maybe 3
> >  degrees all day.   >>
> >
> > ERR, I REALLY HOPE YOU DONT MEAN CELCIUS???....tim
> >
> Yes, celcius, though -40 =-40 in both scales, so -44 celcius = -47.2
> farenheit, -42 = -43.6.....
> Just a little non-olds tidbit, unless you had a thermometer on your olds,
> which went to -40, where the two scales meet...
>
> ...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
> Eric Aksomitis:
> Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
> Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
> http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
> Last update: 970912
> ..............................................................
Using either temperature scale that is pretty cold.  In central Ky it
doesn't get anywhere near that except for wind chill factors a few days
every once in a while. (Long gaps between times, too.)  It does get
kinda cold in the deep South (notice the capital letter, Bill) every
once in the while.  I remember going to watch Ky play West Va in a bowl
game in Birmingham, Al several years ago and freezing while sitting in
the stands.  (I know, I know something about UK playing in a bowl game
again when **** freezes over.)

Don Sowers

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:09:00 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Twin batteries

Kevin Wong wrote:
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> > I was thinking, since early 80's diesels all ran 2 battery's, with no
> > switches, WHY NOT a car?????
>
> I ran a dual battery setup in a '77 de Ville for about 1.5 years.  The 2
> year old Motomaster (Canadian Tire brand, avoid these like the
> plague!) battery was unable to crank the 425 at -18C (0F), so I
> hooked up an 8 year old Delco in parallel with some 6 gauge wire.  I
> joined the positive terminals together, then connected the second
> battery's ground to the chassis.  This setup worked very well; there was
> much less voltage drop while idling in drive when electrical loads were
> high (picture a snow storm when the wipers, rear defroster, headlights,
> and blower fan are all on in stop and go traffic).
>
> Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Kevin,

If it's all the same to you I would rather picture sunny beaches,
beautiful young ladies and a 442 convertible.  Sounds much better than
all that icky ice and snow and stuff.

Don Sowers

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:05:38 -0400
From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Subject: OAI Hoods

I did some serious research on reproducing the hoods to factory specs a couple
of years ago. I found a source for the fiberglass (total different animal than
the hoods that vendors sell now) and a source to make then metal skin
underneath. My cost to produce the hood was about $1,100.  At that time, a
really clean 71-72 OAI hood was about $850. After I added my profit to the hood
I didnt feel I had a very good market for them.  Who knows with all the 
original
hoods ending up on good cars, there may yet be a market for them.

Mike
66 442
70 442
70 442 W30
71 442 Convt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: External Therm.

In a message dated 97-09-15 20:33:58 EDT, you write:

<< Did the external thermometer shown as an option on the '73 Cutlass also
come
 as an option on the '72? It mounted on the driver's door just forward of the
 side view mirror.
  >>
The external thermometer was availible on all Oldsmobile bodies from 1970 to
1980.

The color of the thermo from 70-72 was black with white numbers, and from 73
to 80 the color was white with black numbers.  I had a Nos white with black
numbers and told the applications from 73 to 80 on all bodies and I have
70-72 Engineering reports that state and show the black with white numbers on
all Olds bodies.  Hopes this helps.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:14:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: 1969 442 Question

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 NotDads442@aol.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I friend of mine just recently purchased a 1969 442 and has one what I think
> should be a simple question for the list members.
>
> His car has only the drivers side rear-view mirror on the car.  Is this
> correct or should it have a rear-view mirror on the passenger side also?

My son's has one on the driver's side, only.


sugarman@berkshire.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 13:10:05 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: 1969 442 Question

Cecil,

Tell your friend a driver side chrome mirror mounted above the door trim
is correct.

- --
John "Shoe-Man" Schumacher

     Well, actually, the passenger side mirror was an available option.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     6 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:04:46 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <3sticks@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Re: Twin batteries, a little long...

ROKMORT@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Group
>   Don't think its such a hot idea to put two batteries in parallel, even if
> they are
> identical.  This because they probably don't have identical internal
> impedances,
> and therefore will have a continuous cirulation of a small amount of current,
>
> constantly running them down.  Better to put a switch in, and alternate using
> one, then the other, every week.  Keep in mind a switch does increase the
> number of connections, though, and any weak connection is trouble.   I just
> keep a stong
> spare battery ready to go in the trunk, and som extra battery connectors in
> the glovebox, with the wrenchs to change them.
>
> Michael J. Morton

***********

The most important component in a multi-battery electrical system,
(which nobody has mentioned yet), is a BATTERY ISOLATOR, it's made up of
several heavy duty diodes mounted in a heat sink (the better one's have
current sensing). The purpouse of this device is to allow the charging
of two or more batteries simultainously, with each having no effect on
the other. You would use the a battery selector switch only to shunt out
the isolator and bridge the batteries, (doulbing the CCA's) when
necessary. Such as: starting, in the event the main battery is dead, or
if heavy load is present (ex. starting on a very cold day / or / and
ambulance running at idle while operating full lights & equip). Needless
to say an alternator with a higher output would also be a plus here!
Probably the most common use now-a-days of an isolator can be found in
vehicles with custom sound systems that demand high instantanious
stand-by power. One battery would power the car as usual, and the other
would power the sound system. If you were to just tie the two in
parallel they would always be trying to level off equal (like trying to
get the last 32 lbs. of air out the tank when filling a tire). If they
were brand new - identical batteries, this would last for a little
while, untill one became weaker than the other. Then they'd kill each
other little by little.

Done correctly, this type of installation works great !

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
     Oldsmobile 100th Centennial ª 2218 /    | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
                                       |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34                   |_|         |_|   |_______|
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34



        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 9/1/97)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hurst parts

the intake will fit any small block olds engine.  the heads might fit too,
the only real difference is the head bolt size.  and who needs a carb?

mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:13:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan442Olds@aol.com
Subject: Chrome Plating

Can anyone recommend a good plater?  Its for a showcar so its got to be done
right.  There sure are lots of ads in Hemmings but would like to hear from
someone who has had good experience in both the quality of work and
cost$$$$$.

Dan442Olds@aol.com

1970 442 W-30
1970 SS Chevelle LS6
1969 GTO
1965 Lincoln

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

Guys  (and gals, Lisa!) -

If this new run of reproduction OAI hoods turns out to be a feasible thing,
I'd be willing to chuck in some investment capital.  I'll be watching where
this thing goes with interest.

Tom Simmons
71 SX and (soon to be) 70 SX with OAI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:45:54 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

Howdy, getting ready to swapout my 76 Olds Cutlass 350 to a 1970
Buick 350 (temporary) so I can get the Olds 350 rebuilt, anyone had
any experience with this sort of swapout before? Suggestions,
Warnings, ect.? I am taking the 350 trainy and swaping it for a
H/O rebuilt 400 short shaft with 2000 stall converter, the 70 came
out of a Buick Skylark GX if that helps anything, think it has the
10:1 pistons, has a factory High Rise Intake on it, not sure if that
helps at all either though. Any comments greatly appreciated.


- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

why would you switch to a th-400?  they just sound like a better tranny, but
with a 350 and a shift kit it can outperform any 400 w/2000 stall.  the 350
is a lighter tranny and you can buy a 2000 stall for it too.  my friend had a
400 tranny and he regrets putting it in his car.  he even went as far as to
put a shift kit into it.  also the th-400 has an electric downshift, which
means you will have to tap the wiring harness.  as far as the engine goes i
think they will fit right in with little work done to the motor mounts.

mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:21:29 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

Well,
 1st. 350 trainy has 186,000, (so does the engine) and is on its last
leg, (found chunks of metal in the pan last night and slips
when shifting) 2nd, I got a good deal on the 400 and its already
rebuilt with stronger gears, and 3rd, I like the way the 400 shifts,
I always have, Guess there are some things you get used to and dont
want to change em. :)

> why would you switch to a th-400?  they just sound like a better tranny, but
> with a 350 and a shift kit it can outperform any 400 w/2000 stall.  the 350
> is a lighter tranny and you can buy a 2000 stall for it too.  my friend had a
> 400 tranny and he regrets putting it in his car.  he even went as far as to
> put a shift kit into it.  also the th-400 has an electric downshift, which
> means you will have to tap the wiring harness.  as far as the engine goes i
> think they will fit right in with little work done to the motor mounts.
>
> mikey tvb@aol.com
> 73 cutlass w/403
>

- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:46:44 -0700
From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Re: A better mechanical fuel pump

I ran the holley chrome menchanical pump for about 6 months before the casting
broke off. Maybe I overtightened it, but it broke just the same. I'm back
to factory now with a Delco unit. I ran an electric to get me out of the
broken holley bind ("you want a fuel pump for a 66 olds?..?"), it worked
great, but I went back to mechanical for simplicity and originality. Very
pleased with the Delco unit which keeps pressure at about 7.5psi through
the rev range. 'course I run a street 455 on my 98. They don't really need
nitrous or anything fancy like the cutlasses...

cf

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:56:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Need info re Windows

I have a problem with the passenger door window in my mother-in-law's '85
Custom Cruiser (B Body).  The "plastic guide clip" broke, and upon
replacing it (only $1.10 + tax) found that the clip falls out of the
track, when lowered.

The problem is that the felt liner, which is supposed to hold onto the
retainer clip, is broken, but hanging there.  The window can be lowerd and
raised, as long as you keep pressure on the window toward the rear of the
car.

My '82 Fisher Body Service manual (page 5-32) shows only the whole "Front
Run Channel"  as the lowest replacable unit. Haven't priced it yet, but
expect it is substantially more than $1.10.  ;-)

Does anyone know if there is a source for a replacement felt insert?

TIA,

Don Sugarman


sugarman@berkshire.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 16:29:47 PDT
From: "chris smetana" <chris@abcs.com>
Subject: Re: Terry's 68 455

> thanks for the info yes it has that gas cap. I have set the timing
> retarded to run lower octane gas. Would a different cam up the hp?

I recently read an article in PHR about the Edelbrock Pontiac heads.  (ya I 
know
its Pontiac but bear with me)  Incidently it was in the June issue, I'm way
behind on my readings.  Anyway, at the end of the article from Rock & Roll
Engineering there was a little blurb about high cr's + low octane.  I don't 
know
if Bruce Fulper from RRE or Edelbrock wrote this or what but one of the ~myths~
they talk about is backing off the timing until pinging stops.  It says:

Here's what happens when you retard timing: If we made a chart showing
detonation effects from the minimum to the max, "pinging" is max.  It's 
extreme,
severe, a wheel barrow filling with parts, or the ultimate gearhead sin!
Retarding the timing sets up a domino effect that: robs you of power, fires the
plug later so more fuel is not getting burned efficiently, and this excess fuel
that cools the chamber and reduces the "pinging" also washes down the top of 
the
cylinder where oil is supposed to be for ring lubrication, which in turn 
creates
excessive heat, and will eventually fatigue the top ring and the top land of 
the
piston.  Oil consumption will increase because the top ring is fast becoming a
potato chip, or worse, depending on the severity of detonation, the ring and/or
piston breaks into tiny little pieces

Just an FYI, and to find out what some people here have to say as I'm curious.

Chris Smetana


Terre Haute, IN
chris@abcs.com

1969 W-31
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:38:35 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.

James Thingwold wrote:
>
> And you guys think I'm bad - Greg's just catching up.  Although I still
> think Jason Labay is WAY out in front :-)
>
> Lisa Madsen
> Anaheim, CA


Hehe, yeah if I listed all the cars I have stashed, saved, etc at the
salvage yard it would take up a whole digest in itself :-) I only get to
drive 3 of them though :-(
- --

********
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group - Valve Division
1995 DCM Impala SS.....my dream car come true
1980 Olds 4-4-2 W-30.....show car..one of 346 produced
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project
1985 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4X4......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:28:31 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Terry's 68 455

ok all I get the message a bout retarding the ignition. The info I got
was from ans old Graymarine boat moter manuel, they were set up to run
on 95 or beter octane, but it said to retard the timing 5 deg and it
would run fine on lower octane> for what it is worth.

Terry Teague
68 Delta Custom
81 320 SE mercedes
88 Jeep Wagoneer
64 Conv. Corvair
76 Chevy Truck (work)
61 17ft Century Resorter 238 HP Graymarine (mahogany)
65 19 ft Century Reaorter 310HP Graymarine (mahogany)
68 Orlando Clipper 155hp GMC v6

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:35:34 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Any T-top advice?

Greg, I can't offer any T-top advice since I've never had them on an Olds,
but you may find a good deal of information on the Grand National web site.
The best weatherstrip rejuvenator that I've found is some Meguiar's stuff,
it's a vinyl and rubber preservative in a tan trigger spray bottle.  Sorry I
don't have the name handy.  The following bit was mentioned a while back on
their mailing list and I thought it looked good enough to save:

TOP TEN REASONS TO HAVE T-TOPS ON YOUR CAR

10.) Sitting on a wet car seat after a good rain builds character.
9.) When removed, car resembles BATMOBILE (only faster).
8.) If driving alone, creaks and rattles keep you company.
7.) Weatherstrip prices have plummeted from ludicrous to barely
affordable.
6.) Body shops send you Christmas cards.
5.) Superior frame flex heightens wheel pulling launches.
4.) Scientist buddies are impressed with your example of GREENHOUSE
EFFECT.
3.) Iron Oxide is our friend.
2.) Allows for installation of optional EJECTION SEAT.

And the number one reason to have T-Tops on your car

1.) Heightens UFO visibility and tracking.

Greg Pruett wrote:

> Since I've never owned a T-top car before I'd like to ask for any info
> on how to maintain the seals in my newly acquired`80 Cutlass.  The top

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:56:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1969 442 Question

Cecil
  The right mirror on these cars was an option. A real nice right hand mirror
is hard to find, an NOS one is almost impossible.

Everett  OCAª1961

1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:11:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chrome Plating

Hi Dan
  Chrome plating---- There is a place here in Rhode Island called New England
Bumper  1-401-434-6300  his name is Joe. I have been using him for about
three years for all my work as well as for my customers I have only had one
bad piece and he redid promptly. His prices are very reasonable and his turn
around time is decent also. He does real good fabrication on parts also.

Everett  OCAª 1961
1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Need info re Windows

Don
   That felt strip in your door in the window channel it should still be
avail from the dealer because that part was the same for years B body & C
body had the same in Chev Pont Buick  for a long time



Everett  OCA ª1961

1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:34:19 -0400
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: Grey Ghost ?

Guys, Any Clue???  I thought this was a Rloos Royce from the 1920's
Reply to this "gentleman" directly as he is not a member of the list,  I
would be interested as to what it is, if it exsisted.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subject: 1957 "OLDS" grey ghost....
  Date:  Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
  From:  MAXiCO@aol.com
    To:  brad442@erols.com
   I am interested in accepting information on the gray ghost OLDS and
need information on how to proceed........ I will not deal with any non
matching numbers
Thank you for any information

GL MAXWELL
MAXico@AOL.COM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Official OCC Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:44:08 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: Grey Ghost ?

Bradford W. Nicholson wrote:

It very well could be and Olds, but I've never heard of it.  Rolls Royce
made a *Silver* Ghost (only 2, I think), back in the days.  Trust me, he
hasn't found a Silver Ghost...it'd likely be a two or three million
dollar car.

S. Dave Ward
>
> Guys, Any Clue???  I thought this was a Rloos Royce from the 1920's
> Reply to this "gentleman" directly as he is not a member of the list,  I
> would be interested as to what it is, if it exsisted.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Subject: 1957 "OLDS" grey ghost....
>   Date:  Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
>   From:  MAXiCO@aol.com
>     To:  brad442@erols.com
>    I am interested in accepting information on the gray ghost OLDS and
> need information on how to proceed........ I will not deal with any non
> matching numbers
> Thank you for any information
>
> GL MAXWELL
> MAXico@AOL.COM
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  ---
> | | | Brad Nicholson
> | | | 1987 442 W-42
> |/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
> | | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
>  ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
> e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
> Official OCC Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
> Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:52:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Ols in Europe

Roland Klinger
  Went to your sight today and saw all those Oldsmobiles in Europe. Was
really glad to see that nice 61 Starfire as I own one myself.
  Keep up the good work on those Rockets

Everett OCAª 1961

1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:49:33 -0400
From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Subject: NON-OLDS?

>><< << SIGNS THAT YOU ARE TOO DRUNK:
>>
>>  You lose arguments with inanimate objects.
>>
>>  You have to hold onto the lawn to keep from falling off the earth.
>>
>>  Job interfering with your drinking.
>>
>>  Your doctor finds traces of blood in your alcohol stream.
>>
>>  Career won't progress beyond Senator from Massachusetts.
>>
>>  The back of your head keeps getting hit by the toilet seat.
>>
>>  Sincerely believe alcohol to be the elusive 5th food group.
>>
>>  24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case - coincidence?? - I think not!
>>
>>  Two hands and just one mouth... - now THAT'S a drinking problem!
>>
>>  You can focus better with one eye closed.
>>
>>  The parking lot seems to have moved while you were in the bar.
>>
>>  You fall off the floor...
>>
>>  Your twin sons are named Barley and Hops.
>>
>>  Hey, 5 beers has just as many calories as a burger, screw dinner!
>>
>>  Mosquitoes catch a buzz after attacking you
>>
>>  At AA meetings you begin: "Hi, my name is... uh..."
>>
>>  Your idea of cutting back is less salt.
>>
>>  You wake up in the bedroom, your underwear is in the bathroom, you
>>fell
>>  asleep clothed. - hmm.
>>
>>  The whole bar says 'Hi' when you come in...
>>
>>  You think the Four Basic Food Groups are Caffeine, Nicotine, Alcohol,

>>and
>>  [Women or Men].
>>
>>  Every night you're beginning to find your roommate's cat more and
more
>>  attractive.
>>
>>  Roseanne looks good.
>>
>>  Don't recognize wife unless seen through bottom of glass.
>>
>>  That damned pink elephant followed me home again.
>>
>>  Senators Kennedy and Packwood shake their heads when they walk past
>>you.
>>
>>  I'm as jober as a sudge.
>>
>>  The shrubbery's drunk from too frequent watering.
>>
>>  You wake up screaming "TORO TORO TORO!" in the middle of the night.
>>

I believe the last line is Olds related. ;)

-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\ (810)
825-5129    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/ Sterling Hts.,
MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:56:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chrome Plating

Central Plating in El Monte, Calif.
Ask for Mike.
Don't have phone number here, but avail via 818 info.
They've done a lot of work for me and it's been all good.
They know the Coupe King

Best-Peter Sliskovich

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:57:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

OAI hood repros/interest/investment.
Count me in!
Coupe King

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:56:43 -0400
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: 72 442 - How do ya tell real or fake

Another one from the OCA web site.
Again, rply directly to Bob.  I would like to know also so how bout
sending to the nesgroup also.  "tanks

===========================
Subject:  72 442
  Date:   Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:03:44 -0400 (EDT)
  From:   Boblav@aol.com
    To:   brad442@erols.com


I would appreciate your help. I'm thinking of buying a 72 442 conv. How
can I
be sure it's a real 442 & not a clone? Owner tells me ªs match but there
is
no way to distinquish a 442 by VIN, Is there another way?
Thanks,
Bob from NJ
=========================================================--
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Official OCC Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:18:18 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Re: OOPS!  69 console colors

Mike Rothe wrote:
>
> Correction!!! Alas, I must retract an earlier statement I made on 69
> Cutlass console colors on that thread a while back.  SANDALWOOD is the
> color of the console when Antique Parchement interior was ordered (937
> or 977 trim code). Black belts, carpet and dash/steering column and
> floor mats though.  I apparently made the mistake of looking up console
> colors in the '71 Assembly Manual, vice the '69 one.  In '71, white
> interiors came with black consoles.  It seems whatever the carpet color
> was in '71, so goes the console color.  Again, I was wrong.  And I
> accept full  responsibility.  I am shamed.
>
> Mike Rothe

Mike: thanks for the response...what you wrote is what my 69 442 has.
Good to know mine is correct.  Keep that advise coming. I look forward
to it.  Its great to have an Olds wizard like you advise us less
informed.
Wayne Schwartz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:31:13 -0400
From: Joe Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale

AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com wrote:
>
> i am interested, could always use an extra block or 2. is he going to
> englishtown, nj or carlise pa??any idea what they are out of and are they
> stock bore. I hope there not flower pots on his front lawn :) thanks for any
> info you have
> joe
I saw the 72 motor, it is in good shape, the other two are in doors but
I am not sure of the condition. He is mostly into Pontiac and just wants
to get rid of them. I don't think he is willing to travel or ship them.
He wants to get ride of all 3 motors to clear out space.
                     Joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:50:27 -0400
From: Joe Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale

I will talk to him this weekend and see if he will give his phone
number so anyone who is interested can speak to him directly.
                         Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:01:24 +0000
From: Tom Millard <oldspwr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 200-4R Info...(LONG)

Here is some info I posted awhile back on the 200-4R trans.  I have recently
updated it since I have finally worked out all the bugs of my trans (knock
on wood...)

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4  - WHICH ONE SHOULD I USE BEHIND AN OLDS
Most people believe that the 700-R4 is better tranny than the 200-4R.
 According to a recent Hot Rod Article "The Great Debate - 700-R4 vs. 200-4R
- - Which is the Better Overdrive", March 1995, "both can handle 600 lbs-ft or
torque and around 700 hp."  Therefore, all you have to do is pick the correct
one for your Olds.  200-4R's have either a BOP bell housing or a universal
bell housing (BOP & Chevy).  This makes it a direct bolt in for your Olds.
 It is the same length as a 350 and uses the same drive shaft, but has the
mount for the cross member in the same location as a TH-400. As for the
700-4R, it only has a Chevy bell housing so an adapter plate will have to be
used.  It is also longer than a 400 by 2", so a custom length drive shaft
will have to be made as well as the crossmember being relocated.  Below is a
chart which relates the lengths of the common tranny's to there tranny mount
locations.

Trans       Overall   Rear Trans
            Length    Mount Position
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
TH350       27"       19.5"
TH400       28"       26.25"
TH200-4R    27"       26"
TH700-R4    30"       21.25"

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4 GEAR RATIOS
One important thing to look at while choosing an overdrive for your Olds is
the gear ratios they have.  The 700-R4 has a huge jump from 1st gear to 2nd
gear, which will hurt acceleration.. The car will really launch in 1st gear
but puke when it hits 2nd.  I am not saying that you will be dissapointed
with a 700-R4, but if you drag race the car at all the the gear ratios should
be something to consider.  As for the 200-4R, the gear jumps are more evenly
spaced out and it has a better overdrive ratio.  See the chart below for
common trans gear ratios:

Trans             1st   2nd   3rd   4th
- ----------------------------------------
350               2.52  1.52  1.00  ---
400               2.48  1.48  1.00  ---
200-4R            2.74  1.57  1.00  0.67
700-4R            3.06  1.62  1.00  0.70

Since I chose a 200-4R, the rest of this will concentrate on that particular
trans.

BACKGROUND:
To begin, the 200-4R is loosly based on the 200 metric with the addition of
an OD drum.  Due to their relation to one another, the 200-4R has an
undeserved reputation of being weak like its notorious sister 200.  Although
the 200-4R will not hold up very well it its stock form,  there are a few
modifications that will increase its strength and dependability.

INFO RESOURCE:
Most if the information I have gathered is from Mike Kurtz at PMAC in
Houston, TX and Level Ten Trans in NJ (www.levelten.com).  Most of the guys
on the TR (Turbo Regal) mail list speak highly of both, and you can get a
text file of 200-4R questions from the TR Web page
(http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/buick.html).

CORES:
According to Mike, the most important thing in rebuilding a 200-4R is the
core you use.  86-87 Turbo Regal (TR) trans are the best cores to use while
the 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442/Hurst's are the next best.  The
reason the 86-87 TR trans's are better cores is that they have a larger
reverse boost valve, special governor, and a larger 2-3 intermediate servo.
 The 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442's trans are very similiar, and use
the same valve bodies (which is important) and and they can be upgraded to
86-87 TR types with parts from GM.

CODES:
To determine what type of core you have or need, you have to look at the
code.  This code can be found on the passenger side of the trans near the
driveshaft and is attached with one rivet.  Sometimes these tags were
installed backwards at the factory, so it is possible that the code is facing
the wrong way.  The tag is a small piece of aluminum that will be either
natural & yellow or natural & blue and will have the 2 or 3 letter code on
it along with the serial number stamped on it.  The serial number will also
include the 2 or 3 letter code mentioned above.  This code is EXTREMELY
important!    Most people do not know that there is a difference between
these trans.  I've had people tell me that a "200-4R is
a 200-4R", and that is wrong.

Codes for 200-4R's:
** KZF - 442's
** CZF - Monte SS's
** BRF - Turbo Regals
** OZ - Hurst's
OM - 350 Olds Diesels
OG - 307 Olds
BY - 252 V6 Cars
AA & AP - Cadillac's
The codes marked with the ** are the ones with the better valve bodies.  The
valve body itself will have the first two letters painted on it.  Be careful
because the paint comes off easily.  The special valve bodies usually have a
purple strip on them also.

VALVE BODIES:
According to Mike Kurtz, he has never had any success with any other valve
bodies than the ones marked with asteriks above.  Although the casting
numbers are the same, I am pretty sure that the bore sizes of the valves
within the valve body are different.  This makes a big difference in the
shift quality of the trans.
*** UPDATE ***  I have heard stories of valve body surfaces not being true.
This could cause pressure bleed over and inconsistent shifts, etc.  The tech at
Level Ten told me that he usually 'stones' (surfaces) the valve bodies
before reinstalling them.  Note:  I would also replace the plate located
between the
valve body and case.  Mike Kurtz also recommends replacing the VB gaskets every
time you drop the VB.

GOVERNORS:
The governor in a 200-4R determines the WOT shift points while the location
of the TV cable determines the shift points at anything under WOT.  The
tranny's marked with an asterik above have special governors that will shift
anywhere between 4800-5000 rpms at WOT depending on what they came out of.
 Stock governors on non-performance based cars shifted at 3000 rpm at WOT.
 This is important because with the 3000 rpm type governor, the trans will
shift from 1-2-3-4 very rapidly which makes for poor acceleration at mild or
light throttle.

UPGRADES:
There are a few common upgrades that most reputable trans builder install in
200-4R's.  These include a 10 vane pump, heat treated stator, pressure
regulator valve, and a shift kit.

PUMP:
To replace the stock 7 vane pump, a 10 vane pump with heat treated vanes and
 steel rings are used. This reduces irradic pressure readings with the
addition of the extra vanes while the very brittle cast iron ring is replaced
with a steel ring.  (This brittle cast iron ring is a common weak point in
the 200-4R.)

HEAT TREATED STATOR:
If you look at the stator in a stock 200-4R, you will probably observe
extreme wear marks on the splines.  Art Carr claims that a worn stator will
cause premature failure on the thrust bearing in the engine.  Therefore most
aftermarket companies sell a heat treated version to replace the worn stock
one. This has to be pressed into the pump, and costs around $70.

PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE:
To increase the line pressure and also reduce pressure fluctuations, the
stock pressure regulator valve can be replaced with a 'performance' one.
 This costs around $20 and is available from Art Carr and Mike Kurtz @ PMAC.
*** UPDATE ***  My trans kept starting off in 2nd gear as well as not shifting
at WOT from 1-2.  I spoke with a tech at Level Trans and he told me to replace
the high pressure regulator valve and spring with a stock ones.  I used a valve
and spring from my 86 Monte SS core and this completely solved my problems...

SHIFT KITS:
There are a couple a kits available on the market, but the one most of the
guys on the TR list recommend is the one from Mike Kurtz.  His kit is
modified Trans GO kit that works very well.  I have installed it on my trans
and am very happy with it.  B&M also makes a kit that works well, but a few
guys have had trouble with them.  As for the Trans GO kit, they strongly
recommend you avoid this kit due to a missing parts, etc.  One of the newer
kits from Trans Go has you drill the valve body itself which is bad news
since you can never go back to where you started.  Keep in mind that a new TR
valve body from GM costs over $500 with a $250 core charge.

DISCLAIMER:
I spent all last summer and this summer playing with my 200-4R and spending
alot of time talking to guys on the TR list as well as to other tranny
builders.  Sometimes these tranny's can cause some grief but really work
well when the bugs
are ironed out. Please keep this in mind before tackling such a project....

RESULTS:
My 200-4R resides in my 403 powered 79 Cutlass.  The car is equipped with
245 60 rear
tires with an overall 25.75" diameter.  I just installed 4.10's in the 8.5"
10 bolt and the engine tachs 2350 rpms at 70 mph in 4th gear!  With 28X9
slicks, the car crosses the traps in the quarter at 5000 rpm in 3rd gear
(high 13's at 97 mph)

I hope this info helps....
Please drop me a line if you need any more info...



Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net
79 Cutlass - Street/Strip/Show
86 442 - Summer Driver
79 Cutlass - Winter Bomb

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:04:06 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Grey Ghost ?

Bradford W. Nicholson wrote:

>    I am interested in accepting information on the gray ghost OLDS and
> need information on how to proceed........ I will not deal with any non
> matching numbers
> Thank you for any information

I thought I remembered reading about the Grey Ghost in a back issue of
JWO.  So I pulled them all out and went through them.  I found it.  It
was in the March '89 issue.  But I don't think it's what this guys is
looking for.  "The Tale of the Grey Ghost" is about a guy from Canada
that had a '77 Delta 88 Royale as a summer beater.  I have no knowledge
of Olds having a "Grey Ghost (like I know everything, right?).  Don't
know what he's talking about.

Paul


- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:05:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 9000 RPM 403

At the moment I am rebuilding an olds 403 and I wonder how to make it
faster/stronger.
If possible I want to make it  turn about 8/9000 rpm.
What must I change from the original to accomplish that.
Thanks! archy
usicon@pi.net The Netherlands
- ----==============

Huh, that must be METRIC RPM, eh? ;-)
I seriously doubt that any open main web motor would survive long at that rate.
A more realistic top rpm would be maybe 7000 RPM [U.S.] -if- you build the
thing with al the best parts. Start with forged pistons. Price a set of them,
then see what your goal for RPM is...
  Once again, the compression can be boosted a lot, by small-dish pistons
and/or smaller chamber earlier small block heads. Open up the breathing with
free flowing xst, big valves, port the heads, nice intake & carb... Rowdier
cam, much stiffer valve springs, the usual tricks. Improve the oiling system.
Match the timing curve to the new attributes of compression, cam, and fuel
used.
  But, 8000 RPM... I doubt it. If it works for you, PLEASE let us know how you
did that. Stock valvetrain floats at around 6000 rpm...

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:07:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mancinj@aol.com
Subject: Re: External Therm.

Jim-

Thanks for the info on the therm. Next question - I've got a thermometer I'm
sure is correct for the '73. Is this same one correct for the my '72 H/O?

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:17:46 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: A better mechanical fuel pump

- ----------
> From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: A better mechanical fuel pump
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 5:46 PM
>
> I ran the holley chrome menchanical pump for about 6 months before the
casting
> broke off. Maybe I overtightened it, but it broke just the same. I'm back
> to factory now with a Delco unit. I ran an electric to get me out of the
> broken holley bind ("you want a fuel pump for a 66 olds?..?"), it worked
> great, but I went back to mechanical for simplicity and originality. Very
> pleased with the Delco unit which keeps pressure at about 7.5psi through
> the rev range. 'course I run a street 455 on my 98. They don't really
need
> nitrous or anything fancy like the cutlasses...
>
> cf

I too had a holly pump it broke as well. A design flaw I think
My carter pump has been fine since

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:18:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mancinj@aol.com
Subject: Re: External Therm.

Mikey-

I had originally seen it referenced in my '72 GM Cutlass shop manual. That's
what led me to purchase it from Year One over a decade ago. However, when I
opened the box, the instruction sheet showed a line drawing of it being
mounted on a '73.?  I never hung it on my H/O, suspecting it wasn't "correct"
for the 1972 model.

- -Jay

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:19:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Engine ID

From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 455

i would suggest looking up the vin number and cross reference it with a
chilton's owners manual.  this will tell you the hp and all the other specs
it the engine is all number matching.
===================

NO, NO, NO! The *best* a Chilton's can tell you is nearly what the service
manual says: look at the tag on the oil fill tube.

HAH! As the FAQ says, 99.95% of the time, these tags went away about 25 years
ago. Which leaves just about NO WAY to peg an engine [68-up] as to exactly what
it was. That's where the carb type, carb number, distributor number come in
handy. Of course, if those have been replaced...

And, the engine type, if indeed any car that old still has an unmolested
original motor, was not incorporated into the VIN until, what? 1972 at least.

So, really, their 455 could well BE a "400 HP" unit, out of another car. Sure
as heck didn't come w/ 400 HP motor & single xst though!


- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª850
********************************
