To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #865


oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, September 23 1997     Volume 01 : Number 865



Re: Olds for sale and Free Olds
Re: is this good $ for 73 H/O?
RE: 84 98
Re: Hello Again (Re-join)
Re: Perfect Restorations
Gregs Resto
Olds 307 Chip
RE: Idiot lights on Delta 88
Four Speed Parts Supply
Re: American?
Re: Gregs Resto
455 heads....again.....
Re: fastest gear boxes
Resetting the BRAKE Warning Light (Was Re: Idiot lights on Delta 88)
New on list with questions
Re: rebuilding olds 403
RE: Eastwood stuff
UNBOUNCE: is this good $ for 73 H/O?
UNBOUNCE:
It's good to be back!
UNBOUNCE: Olds 307 Chip
RE: Hello Again (Re-join)
INTERIOR: Rear Seat clock in 72 98
Re: Gregs Resto
Re: 2 part on Dynamic 88
Re: thanks all for the 73 H/O feedback!
RE: American?
Re: Olds for sale and Free Olds
[none]
Re: American?
Original Keys - Update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:28:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds for sale and Free Olds

In a message dated 97-09-23 01:20:07 EDT, you write:

<<
 Uhh--Oh....   Somebody ~p-p-p-pplease~ jump on this one!  I ~really~
 don't want to have to drive ~all~ that way!!!  ª$%@!!!


 > '64 88 FREE to a home that will put it back together. I talked to the guy
 > last monday and the story is: The car was bought new by his dad then given
 > to him, then his son who took it to his high school auto shop class and it
 > was disassembled and not put back together by the end of the school year
so
 > he now has a car in pieces. I wasn't able to get much info from him about
 > the car (he didn't have time when I called him) but he took my number and
 > said he will call me some time next week. He made it very clear that he
 > will not part the car out and doesn't want to give to somebody that will
 > part it. 309-526-8441 (Orion? Il.) This is all that I know at this time.
 >
              Charley Buehner >>

I'd be happy to take it, but have no way of getting it here (Rockford, IL.,
so where's this place at anyways...), sounds like a person would need a
trailer, and towing vehicle....  something I lack at this time (I'm working
on it...).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:31:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: CUTLASCOUP@aol.com
Subject: Re: is this good $ for 73 H/O?

i think the price is in line,,, the pics of the 73s that i have show no
emblem on the Quarters,, as for the hood orniment,,ive see them go for
$50-$400

Check out our web page for 73-77 Cutlass coupes at:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/CUTLASCOUP/index.html">http://members.aol.com/
CUTLASCOUP/index.html</A>

if you have any questions feel free to E-mail me a DUKEOFBLUZ@aol.com
please type OCC in the subject, Thankyou
Jeffrey T. Fieldsend, Board of Director for Oldsmoblie Cutlass Coupes
Member, OCA
Member, H/OCA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:30:02 -0400
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: 84 98

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I'm sure Charley's right in hot-rodder's talk.  But, I remember from =
Spanish class that the verb 'fubar' means to cook or to grill or =
something like that.  I figured that if something was fubared, it was =
pretty cooked, toasted, unuseable.  But, I DO like the clever acronym!

 Jason Adcock
 jadcock@vt.edu


- -----Original Message-----
From:Charley Buehner [SMTP:buehner@lyrea.com]
Sent:Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:17 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: 84 98

Jason Adcock wrote:
>=20
> fubared, but from my experience from used cars is, someone goes and
>=20
> 'fubared'...isn't that Spanish in origin, not English.  So would that =
word be made in Spain, not Lansing.........

Actually, it's "FUBAR'd" I believe.  If anyone needs to know what it
~stands~ for, let me know.  I'll give a hint, the last four words are
"Up Beyond All Recognition(or Repair, depending on context)"  I'm sure
you can figure out the first one.  And I don't believe it is Spanish,
either, odds are it originated in Dearborn ;)

As for the heater, I'd say it's likely a vacuum hose unhooked.  Most
often, the vacuum canister is the fault, which can be found nearly
anywhere under the hood ;(  Follow lines, I guess.  I'm not at all
familiar with the underhood area of the mid 80's  98's.  The idea that
the heater hoses are switched is unlikely, since there are no
~directional flow~ controls inside the heater core.  It doesn't care
which way the water goes through it, as long as it's flowing.  One
direction may be a bit more effective in some circumstances, but I
highly doubt you'll notice such a major difference (i.e.
nonfunctionality).  I guess, look for a pink or a grey ~plastic~ vacuum
line under the hood.  Seems to me the pink one goes to the vacuum
reservoir/canister (usually at the header panel, but I've seen them on
the firewall and fenderwells, too)  and usually enters the cab on the
pass. fender near the heater fan assembly.  Like I said, I'm not
familiar with the 98's, so I'm just pulling out painful childhood
memories from my brain.  The grey one goes to the heater control valve,
which on ~my~ Cutlasses mounts directly to the back of the intake on the
pass side.  I've seen other variances, though, so you might find
different stuff under your hood.

As for the seat, I'd say it's a stripped out clutch tooth thing in the
transmission assembly of the motor.  These are rebuildable, but I've
never seen parts for them before (Of course, I've never looked,
either...  Anyone know?  Anyone familiar with these assemblies at all?)=20
I took one apart to see how it worked (moreso why it ~didn't~ work;) and
came to the conclusion that one of the plastic gears was ~FUBAR'd~
(FOO'--bard:  Adj.  Dearborn MI, 1964)  As I recall, each of these gears
acted as a clutch with three individual solenoids running them.  You
might check to see if one of the cables just came unhooked.  That would
cause one side to lock up, also.  Shouldn't have much trouble finding
junkyard replacements, though.  They're fairly plentiful.

It does sound like a decent car, though (it's Olds, that's a dead
giveaway there;)  If it runs and drives well, I'd say it's well worth
it. =20

    =20
             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:17:36 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Hello Again (Re-join)

 I'm Jason Adcock with a 1984 Cutlass Calais.

Welcome back Jason - are you & Greg P. hanging out together?  Have you
gotten to ride in the Awesome Big Banana yet (VC)?



Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:27:19 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Perfect Restorations

Did you catch the Muscle Car Mag article on the Mopar they found that was
built shortly after a holiday, or on a Friday or on a Monday -one of those
hangover days.  They sat and itemized all the stuff done wrong, it was
actually pretty hilarious "and here we have a foot of overspray onto the
firewall...gee were these guys awake or not?".  The car had some incredibly
low mileage on it and they were leaving it stock-unrestored, but the list
of boo-boos was endless......


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:18:56 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Gregs Resto

78 Olds Delta 88 Royale, 2dr hrd top,no options, blown 350, TH-200
trainy,new exhaust, brakes, rear end seals, many other tid bits. Just
getting the car off loan, so could sell in near future, very little
surface rust along bottom fender, old lady care before, great for
resto/project, or if someone wants a parts car, it is about complete.
Can get pics, (I have a digital camera) if you want. $500 or best
offer

Uhoh - I think Greg's in trouble here.....


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:49:05 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Olds 307 Chip

Message text written by INTERNET:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>What kind of increse if any do you feel on the street?  I have an 86
Cutlass
with the 307, I am thinking of the chips offered at the local parts house.
are there any drawbacks with using them?  I already have true dual exhaust
with turbo mufflers. Putting the duals on the car I noticed a big diffrence
in the way the car ran and the mpg.  I am still learning about the comp.
system and all the egr things.  Its a lot of book reading so far.  Iknow
the
intake system is real restrictive on the 86 and up 307's.  I plan to look
for a set of heads and intake off of a (5A) earlier 307.


Clarence
86 Cutlass 4dr 307  <

The chip makes a big difference on the street.  The Hypertech chip makes
some improvements on the street but I do not think that it raises timing
enough.  It really helps out on WOT runs the most.  The chips that I made
have timing enhancements over entire throttle and RPM range.  I found that
4 degrees at idle to 12 degrees at WOT makes the most improvement.  This
reduce my 1/4 mile time by 0.5 seconds (16.2 instead of 16.7).  Also,
around town it is much peppier and fuel mileage improved.  It does require
92 octane fuel.
     Also, if I WOT at a standing start now, I roast both rear tires
without power braking (I do not have posi) (I have a good picture of smoke
pouring from both rear tires - I just love Oldsmobile Rocket low end torque
- - even for a lowly 307!!- just think of what a good 350 would do - but the
car is factory original and I want to keep it that way - except for chip)).
 I am still playing with code, but it does help.
      I would recommend Hypertech Thermo-master chip and not street runner.
 Street runner chip does not increase timing enough.  Best bet is to get a
custom chip or make your own (cheaper and better).  Do not get ADS
Superchip - doesn't work.  I don't believe anyone else hase anything good
for this vehicle either, just not enough cars around to justify developing.

BTW -  All disclaimers apply, yada yada yada

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:49:06 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: Idiot lights on Delta 88

On Monday, September 22, 1997 10:38 PM, Mike Rothe
[SMTP:MROTHE@prodigy.net] wrote:
> > > > Even though I replaced almost the entire brake system, the BRAKE
light
> > > > stays on.  I can't figure out why!
>
> I'm not claiming brake expertise here, not knowing the brake system
> particulars on the D88, but the proportioning valve has a spool in it
> that will activate the light if differential pressure is too great
> between the front and rear. .......

You are correct Mike. He needs to check to see if the proportioning
valve needs to be reset. Unhook the wire at the valve and see if the
light goes out. If it does the valve can be reset sometimes by pressing
real hard on the brakes. Bleeding the brakes can cause this.


Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the.....Past

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:06:09 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Four Speed Parts Supply

Here is the name and info on a place I get four speed parts from.  It
was recommended to me by a parts wholesaler that could not get me any
parts for my 4 speed.  They specialize in manual transmission parts.

Southside Auto Parts
1710 E 29th St.
Muncie, IN  47302-5887
Phone 765-284-5456

Their general outlook is, "What other kinds of transmissions are there?"
They stock everything I have needed for my Muncie 4 speed.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:24:51 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: American?

> Jason Adcock wrote:
> >
> > IMHO, it's where the money goes that really matters.  Sure, Japanese
> > firms create jobs in America, but the real money is shipped (or wired
> > nowadays) off to Asia.  I'd rather see the car company's headquarters
> > in Michigan (Lansing, preferably!), regardless of where the car was
> > actually built, than to see a factory in Tennessee or Kentucky or
> > Ohio and see the money and funding shipped overseas.
> >
> > But, that's just my $0.02
>
> I wasn't going to get into this, however, I concur with Jason.
>
> My 2 yen's worth. :)
>
> Chris Sparks

I can understand, and agree with, these sentiments.  HOWEVER, determining
the money's destination is a little gray these days.  F'r instance...

Mazda is at least 40% owned by Ford.  Jaguar and Aston Martin are owned
outright by the Blue oval folks. Not that those last marques are in the
forefront of sales in North America :)  -- Lincoln will be sharing a platform
with Jag in the next coupla years in fact.

GM owns Opel, of course.  They also own 100% of Saab, AND a chunk of
Toyota, though I think their percentage of ownership has dropped in
recent years.  Then there's Isuzu.

Chrysler no longer has a majority ownership in Mitsubishi, but it's still
a sizeable percentage.  And as far as money coming back to North America,
that Jeep plant in China is going to be going gangbusters in the next
few years, building transportation for a good percentage of a billion
people...


And as far as content goes, NO american make is 100% US parts, or even
100% north American.  Not even the highly vaunted 'All American' Saturn
can claim this.  Or even (gulp!)  Harley-Davidson.

In any event, this 'american' .vs. 'non-american' car issue can't be
viewed as black & white.  Some might show preference for a marque that
is/was *tradionally* an American make, but to be able to say in the 90's
that one is buying an American car is kind of meaningless, IMHO.

I'll get off the soapbox now.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:54:34 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Gregs Resto

I forgot to mention it just turned 100,000 miles, I have had it since
82,000, Its the maroonish color, with red interior, body is solid as
a rock, and have alot of parts for it too, with original hubcaps,
engine parts, ect. It originally had a TH 400, I put the TH 200 cus I
was in a jam and needed to drive it to work. The engine has a
Eldebrock Racing cam, (that was a little to much lift, thats why the
engine is blown) I am about to put a 77 350 back into it in the near
future, but if someone wants it for parts or there own resto, just
let me know.

> 78 Olds Delta 88 Royale, 2dr hrd top,no options, blown 350, TH-200
> trainy,new exhaust, brakes, rear end seals, many other tid bits. Just
> getting the car off loan, so could sell in near future, very little
> surface rust along bottom fender, old lady care before, great for
> resto/project, or if someone wants a parts car, it is about complete.
> Can get pics, (I have a digital camera) if you want. $500 or best
> offer
>
> Uhoh - I think Greg's in trouble here.....
>
>
> Lisa Madsen
> Anaheim, CA
>
> '64 Cutlass (Ruby)
> '66 Toronado (LA Woman)
> '67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
> '69 Toronado (Toro II)
> '72 Vista Cruiser (VC)
>
> Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
> My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
>
> Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
> Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/
>
- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:36:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Michael Junion <cutlass@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: 455 heads....again.....

Sorry about that guys.....something must have screwed up....


Anyway I was wondering if the heads off of a 1971 Delta 88 455, with the
letter "H" cast on the side were any good........or if I should start
looking for a set of heads??????

thanks.....Paul





- --
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Senior in Civil Engineering with emphasis in Transportation/Municipal
I am from Green Bay, Wisconsin.....graduated from GB Southwest in 1990
I also have another e-mail account....satan@watt.cae.uwm.edu
"FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, WE SOLUTE YOU"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 10:43:53 -0000
From: Darren Shroeger <shroeger@traverse.com>
Subject: Re: fastest gear boxes

Bob Handren (AKA Major Doma) said:

>As best I can recall, the fastest gear boxes (on certain Trans Ams - right?)
>only subtract one turn, are rare or cost a bunch over the counter ($600+).

You're right, Bob. I picked one of these off of a 80 T/A, ended up using
it on my 350 Olds powered 80 Grand Prix. Twas a lightning-fast 2.25 turns
lock-to-lock, and it made the car very tight and responsive to drive.

That gearbox would've been dreamy in my 68 442, but the daily driver's
leaky
box took precedence. But now the GP is parked and I could re-liberate this
steering box for 442 use. Wonder if it would be an actual 2.25 turns in
the
442, or if the geometry would change that a bit.

I believe these boxes need the late style PS pump to work in the A body
cars.
Anyone know what all's involved?

- -Darren Shroeger  <dshroeger@traverse.com>
 & the ever-growing Olds fleet:
   72 Vista Cruiser, 68 442, 68 Delmont 88
   66 Toronado (for sale), 67 Toronado

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:04:30 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Resetting the BRAKE Warning Light (Was Re: Idiot lights on Delta 88)

> Even though I replaced almost the entire brake system, the
> BRAKE light stays on.  I can't figure out why!

Sorry, I got behind on the digests and can't swear to having
seen every post on this thread, but this could simply be a
sagging parking brake cable, since the same warning light is
used for both braking system malfunctions and parking brake
warning. After using the parking brake, releasing it does not
draw all the slack back up again, and the parking brake pedal
is left just slightly _below_ the plunger that's supposed to
turn the warning light off.

With the car running, light blazing away, etc., pull out on
the parking brake release handle and hold it, then with your
left foot, lift the parking brake pedal _upwards_ as far as
it will go, and see if the light goes out.

If it does, kneel outside the open driver's door, hold the
release handle pulled out with your right hand, reach under
the car with your left, and you should be able to reach the
parking brake cable sagging underneath the car. Yank it sharply
downwards. The parking brake pedal should be drawn all the way
up, and the light should go out.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:21:19 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: New on list with questions

HEI, solid state regulator . . .

If you can wait a couple of weeks, I'll have the next release of the FAQ
available. With tons of HEI and alternator/regulator conversion
information.

David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:56:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: rebuilding olds 403

In a message dated 97-09-23 02:52:10 EDT, you write:

<< > Results
 > 60' 1.41@43 mph
 > 1/8 mile 6.24@108.2mph
 > 1/4 mile 9.88@134.6mph @9371rpm
 >
 > Gross hp 938
 > Net hp 694
 > 2.17 hp per inch
 >
 > 9392rpm shift point
 > 2054 power band
 > >>

Sorry but I am very confused by the times. A Buick GN with a 4.1 V6
thats been modified to less than 800 hp, Level10 200R4, or TH400,
Art Carr 9" convertor (about 3-3.5K stall) 29" slicks w/3.73 rear, etc,
will run low nines all day at less than 7000 rpm. Actually I believe
that about 700 hp will bring it solidly into the nine at 3400 pounds.
Why does the 403 have to work so hard to do nines???TIM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:07:58 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: RE: Eastwood stuff

=>Anyone interested in semi-gloss black and grey aerosol paint (and
other
>colors) that has a built in primer (that really stops and prevents rust
>surface rust) for the same price or less than Eastwood? An opportunity
>is presenting itself and I would like to get some feedback. Should I
>post more info?

No, Dave, please keep us in the dark...

;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
- ----------
Here's the (long) story . . . hopefully not wasting too much bandwidth .
. .

I and my family have used this paint for 15 or more years. It's not a
POR-15 or Corroless type product. We have used the brushable and
aerosol. Both have performed really well, in terms of stopping and
slowing rust, and weathering. Recently I was cleaning and painting some
underhood items, and it occurred to me that I should use the semi-black
aerosol.

I realize there will be some small specs of rust on the parts I am
cleaning and painting (almost unavoidable), so I wanted to use a paint
that was convenient and protected well. The paint worked and matched
well. I remember someone mentioning Rust-Oleum matching well, but in my
experience it doesn't do a very good job with existing rust. YMMV.

The paint has a built in rust fighting primer, and it really works. That
is, it works providing protection againist existing and future rust, not
just selling product.
Projects the paint was used on that stand out to me are: two rusty,
originally galvanized cyclone fences. The first was about half way
rusty, with pits and staining. It was painted, and no rust peaked
through after 6 years (we moved). The second was completely pitted. Was
painted, only a few specs show through here and there after 7-8 years. A
pretty rust engine stand was wire brushed, and painted with this paint.
The inside of the box steel could not be cleaned of any rust, so I just
fogged it as best I could. No rust two years later sitting in my
unheated garage.

The big advantage that I see is that it has a built in rust fighting (of
.45 caliber, not 9mm :)) primer that other paints don't. I think this
offers more protection against rust than other paints. I always try to
remove as much rust as possible, but some is going to remain, and I
really hate those little rust webs (in the metal pores?). A lot of other
so-called "anit-rust" mass market paints seem to only protect against
new rust forming under them. If there is existing rust, the "anti-rust"
paints require it's complete removal. And usually recommend their
seperate primer (additional $).

I think the aerosol cans could be sold for the same price, for example,
as the Eastwood paints, so the build in primer offers an advantage.
Selling it requires a minimum purchase of something like 200 12 can
cases, but I can mix colors. Yeah!

Feedback? (please trim those responses)

David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:08:33 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: is this good $ for 73 H/O?

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:CUTLASCOUP@aol.com
Subject: Re: is this good $ for 73 H/O?

i think the price is in line,,, the pics of the 73s that i have show no
emblem on the Quarters,, as for the hood orniment,,ive see them go for
$50-$400

Check out our web page for 73-77 Cutlass coupes at:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/CUTLASCOUP/index.html">http://members.aol.com/
CUTLASCOUP/index.html</A>

if you have any questions feel free to E-mail me a DUKEOFBLUZ@aol.com
please type OCC in the subject, Thankyou
Jeffrey T. Fieldsend, Board of Director for Oldsmoblie Cutlass Coupes
Member, OCA
Member, H/OCA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:14:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE:

Not sure why some of these are bouncing...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Re: fastest gear boxes
Date:Tue, 23 Sep 97 10:43:53 -0000
From:Darren Shroeger <shroeger@traverse.com>

Bob Handren (AKA Major Doma) said:

>As best I can recall, the fastest gear boxes (on certain Trans Ams - right?)
>only subtract one turn, are rare or cost a bunch over the counter ($600+).

You're right, Bob. I picked one of these off of a 80 T/A, ended up using
it on my 350 Olds powered 80 Grand Prix. Twas a lightning-fast 2.25 turns
lock-to-lock, and it made the car very tight and responsive to drive.

That gearbox would've been dreamy in my 68 442, but the daily driver's
leaky
box took precedence. But now the GP is parked and I could re-liberate this
steering box for 442 use. Wonder if it would be an actual 2.25 turns in
the
442, or if the geometry would change that a bit.

I believe these boxes need the late style PS pump to work in the A body
cars.
Anyone know what all's involved?

- -Darren Shroeger  <dshroeger@traverse.com>
 & the ever-growing Olds fleet:
   72 Vista Cruiser, 68 442, 68 Delmont 88
   66 Toronado (for sale), 67 Toronado

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:11:28 -0400
From: Andy Geeting <geetinag@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Subject: It's good to be back!

Hello everyone,
     I don't if a lot of you remember me so I'll give you a little info. I
own a 1987 Olds cutlass supreme which I drive and worship daily. I've
looking into putting in an Olds 350 but just haven't got enough information
on it yet. Although this past summer I had the 7.5" rearend rebuilt. I had
stock 2.56 gears yanked and new Richmond Gear 3.73 gears put in along with
an Auburn Sure Grip Limited slip unit. While I was at it I decided to
upgrade the rear suspension with Hotchkis Performance upper and lower
control arms (with polyurethane bushings) and control arm braces. You
wouldn't believe the difference this made in the overall handling of the
car! Great product!
     So my car goes a little quicker but nothing that is blowing the doors
off any Mustang or Camaro (not that I don't like Camaros or Mustangs,
they're just something to compare to).
     Next summer it's somewhat of a toss-up. A 350 Olds or complete the
suspension upgrade? Probably the suspension. New 16x8 wheels (maybe 17x8 if
they'll fit), tubular upper A-arms, front rear sway bars, performance
spring set, Baer Claw 13" brakes, and Koni single adjustable shocks.
     Sorry this got a little long. Talk to you all later.

Andy Geeting
geetinag@miavx1.muohio.edu

1987 Olds Cutlass Supreme
1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
1974 Delta 88 convertible
1978 Caprice wagon
1936 Plymouth coupe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:16:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Olds 307 Chip

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Olds 307 Chip

Message text written by INTERNET:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>What kind of increse if any do you feel on the street?  I have an 86
Cutlass
with the 307, I am thinking of the chips offered at the local parts house.
are there any drawbacks with using them?  I already have true dual exhaust
with turbo mufflers. Putting the duals on the car I noticed a big diffrence
in the way the car ran and the mpg.  I am still learning about the comp.
system and all the egr things.  Its a lot of book reading so far.  Iknow
the
intake system is real restrictive on the 86 and up 307's.  I plan to look
for a set of heads and intake off of a (5A) earlier 307.


Clarence
86 Cutlass 4dr 307  <

The chip makes a big difference on the street.  The Hypertech chip makes
some improvements on the street but I do not think that it raises timing
enough.  It really helps out on WOT runs the most.  The chips that I made
have timing enhancements over entire throttle and RPM range.  I found that
4 degrees at idle to 12 degrees at WOT makes the most improvement.  This
reduce my 1/4 mile time by 0.5 seconds (16.2 instead of 16.7).  Also,
around town it is much peppier and fuel mileage improved.  It does require
92 octane fuel.
     Also, if I WOT at a standing start now, I roast both rear tires
without power braking (I do not have posi) (I have a good picture of smoke
pouring from both rear tires - I just love Oldsmobile Rocket low end torque
- - even for a lowly 307!!- just think of what a good 350 would do - but the
car is factory original and I want to keep it that way - except for chip)).
 I am still playing with code, but it does help.
      I would recommend Hypertech Thermo-master chip and not street runner.
 Street runner chip does not increase timing enough.  Best bet is to get a
custom chip or make your own (cheaper and better).  Do not get ADS
Superchip - doesn't work.  I don't believe anyone else hase anything good
for this vehicle either, just not enough cars around to justify developing.

BTW -  All disclaimers apply, yada yada yada

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:09:20 -0400
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: Hello Again (Re-join)

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC819.8659C920
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nope, not yet.  He did give me a call and we'll go Junkeyardeing (sp?) 
sometime,
though.

 Jason Adcock
 jadcock@vt.edu


- -----Original Message-----
From:James Thingwold [SMTP:jht@exo.com]
Sent:Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:18 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: Hello Again (Re-join)

 I'm Jason Adcock with a 1984 Cutlass Calais.

Welcome back Jason - are you & Greg P. hanging out together?  Have you
gotten to ride in the Awesome Big Banana yet (VC)?



Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:15:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Subject: INTERIOR: Rear Seat clock in 72 98

As some may know, I've purchased me a big 72 Olds 98.  When I bought it
it had (still does) a clock in the rear seat.  I was told by the seller
that this was very rare.  I said cool, but being a '75 olds expert,
didn't know if it was standard on every 72 made, so I smiled and paid my
$460 for a good shape, legitimately restorable non-basket case Olds 98.
The clock is not the mid-70's Odomoter style, it's more like a normal
clock, with minute hour seconds hands...  Of course, they share some
similarities to my other clocks in that they DON'T work.  I've always
liked having a nonfuntioning clock in these cars though, since in such a
beautiful car, Time Really Does Stand STILL!!!!!

See the new 72 at http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/biggreen.html
or  http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/scenicsk.html

...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
Eric Aksomitis:  Cool homepage of cool cars and cool scenery
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
..............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:19:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Gregs Resto

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, James Thingwold wrote:

> 78 Olds Delta 88 Royale, 2dr hrd top,no options, blown 350, TH-200
<snip>

I'll give you the 5 c-notes (Canadian, right?) but you gotta deliver it
to Halifax.... ;-) It is a California car, right? Red interior? Faded to
purple?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:21:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: 2 part on Dynamic 88

well, I do beat him to a couple cars every now & then

Dustin

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:

> ----------
> > From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
> >
> > There is a '63 (?) 4 door for sale in Chinook MT,
> >
> >              Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
>
> This has got to by a first. An Olds for sale in Montana and Charley hasn't
> bought it.
>
> Daren
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:40:17 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: thanks all for the 73 H/O feedback!

>Yea, I thought it sounded like the same car I saw.
>
>By the way where do you live?>


In chesterfield Township.  (23 mile road and gratiot area)  The car is
currently sitting on the corner of 32 mile and north ave.  Nice $ and car
for someone looking for that exact car.

RC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:31:13 -0400
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: American?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC81C.95067880
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually, Tim is right.  I guess I'll reform my opinion now and agree =
with him.  It does just get down to personal opinion and taste.  =
Personally, I love American cars.  They've been building cars for ever =
(not that the Europeans haven't) and I love the power from them.  Sure, =
the Honda Accord's 4 cylinder engine has as much horsepower as my Olds =
307, but it just doesn't feel like a real American V8.  Heck, to most =
folks here, MY real American V8 doesn't feel like a real American V8, =
but that's something else...  Anyway, American cars (the one's that we =
have) are built better, in my opinion.  My Cutlass is downright reliable =
and unstoppable.  Sure, the new Prelude could whip up on my car at the =
dragstrip and at the road course.  But take an 84 Prelude.  Still a win =
for Honda?  Not likely.  It's all relative.  American cars just have a =
bad name because in the late 80's, they were going south and foreign =
cars were being built better than ever.  Today, compare your average =
1987 Omni with an 87 Accord.  Of course (usually) the Accord will have =
held together the best.  But compare a late 70's Oldsmobile to a late =
70's Nissan.  Ha!!  But this is all hogwash to a die-hard foreign car =
buyer.  In MY ~OPINION~, if you want a Nissan, go to Japan!  If you want =
a Jag, go to England.  The reason foreigners are not buying American =
cars is because we don't ship them out there!  As soon as Asia pulls =
their weight, I'm not going to even think about a Japanese car.  Shoot, =
even if they did pull their weight, I wouldn't look at a Japanese car!  =
Maybe it's just patriotism, I don't know.  If it were an easy subject, =
it would've been solved yesterday!

All right, now _I'll_ get down off of the soapbox.

 Jason Adcock
 jadcock@vt.edu


- -----Original Message-----
From:Timothy A. Churchill [SMTP:tchurchill@draper.com]
Sent:Tuesday, September 23, 1997 9:25 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: American?


> Jason Adcock wrote:
> >=20
> > IMHO, it's where the money goes that really matters.  Sure, Japanese
> > firms create jobs in America, but the real money is shipped (or =
wired
> > nowadays) off to Asia.  I'd rather see the car company's =
headquarters
> > in Michigan (Lansing, preferably!), regardless of where the car was
> > actually built, than to see a factory in Tennessee or Kentucky or=20
> > Ohio and see the money and funding shipped overseas.
> >=20
> > But, that's just my $0.02
>=20
> I wasn't going to get into this, however, I concur with Jason.
>=20
> My 2 yen's worth. :)
>=20
> Chris Sparks

I can understand, and agree with, these sentiments.  HOWEVER, =
determining
the money's destination is a little gray these days.  F'r instance...

Mazda is at least 40% owned by Ford.  Jaguar and Aston Martin are owned
outright by the Blue oval folks. Not that those last marques are in the
forefront of sales in North America :)  -- Lincoln will be sharing a =
platform
with Jag in the next coupla years in fact.

GM owns Opel, of course.  They also own 100% of Saab, AND a chunk of
Toyota, though I think their percentage of ownership has dropped in
recent years.  Then there's Isuzu.

Chrysler no longer has a majority ownership in Mitsubishi, but it's =
still
a sizeable percentage.  And as far as money coming back to North =
America,
that Jeep plant in China is going to be going gangbusters in the next
few years, building transportation for a good percentage of a billion
people...


And as far as content goes, NO american make is 100% US parts, or even
100% north American.  Not even the highly vaunted 'All American' Saturn
can claim this.  Or even (gulp!)  Harley-Davidson.

In any event, this 'american' .vs. 'non-american' car issue can't be
viewed as black & white.  Some might show preference for a marque that
is/was *tradionally* an American make, but to be able to say in the 90's
that one is buying an American car is kind of meaningless, IMHO.

I'll get off the soapbox now.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:41:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds for sale and Free Olds

Chuck, they said to a home that will put it back together!!    besides
arent you running out of room?

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Charley Buehner wrote:

> Uhh--Oh....   Somebody ~p-p-p-pplease~ jump on this one!  I ~really~
> don't want to have to drive ~all~ that way!!!  ª$%@!!!
>
>
> > '64 88 FREE to a home that will put it back together. I talked to the guy
> > last monday and the story is: The car was bought new by his dad then given
> > to him, then his son who took it to his high school auto shop class and it
> > was disassembled and not put back together by the end of the school year so
> > he now has a car in pieces. I wasn't able to get much info from him about
> > the car (he didn't have time when I called him) but he took my number and
> > said he will call me some time next week. He made it very clear that he
> > will not part the car out and doesn't want to give to somebody that will
> > part it. 309-526-8441 (Orion? Il.) This is all that I know at this time.
> >
>              Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
>              Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
>              Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
>              "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
>              "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>      "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
>                     Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:46:56 -0500
From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Subject: [none]

subscribe oldsmobile

Doug..'67 4-4-2 (Bimini Blue,Modified)  "67 4-4-2 convert(being
restored)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:57:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: American?

>
>
> And as far as content goes, NO american make is 100% US parts, or even
> 100% north American.  Not even the highly vaunted 'All American' Saturn
> can claim this.  Or even (gulp!)  Harley-Davidson.
>

when I was in high school I did a research paper on Harley-Davidsons
resurection from bankruptcy in the mid-80s   they sent a research team to
Japan to learn new techniques so that they could update their desiens to
be more trouble free      seems to have worked.

I also site my mothers '89 toyota celica  (which I dont like)  she bought
it new has put about 95k miles on it and it has never had a mechanical
problem   it has never been to the repair shop even ONCE    it is well
maintained, but so is my '89 cutlass  and it has spent ALOT of time in the
shop since I bought it 1 1/2 ago   matter of fact it is getting a new
tranny now.....

Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:42:25 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Original Keys - Update

I have original key blanks for sale at only $1.00 each, (+ postage)!
They have "GM" and "Mark of Excellence" on them.  Please specify what
keyway (example "B").  This can be found on the side of the key.

Also, I can cut "keys by code".  This means the key cuts will be to
original factory depths.  This service usually costs $5.00 - $8.00 PER
KEY at most locksmith shops.  I'll only charge $5.00 (+ postage) for
two keys cut to code on original blanks.  This can be done using your
current "working keys" or of course if you have the code itself.
PLEASE!!!  Let's not ruin it, keep it restricted to older Oldsmobiles
and list members only!

I am also willing to help anyone get "Oldsmobile" lock parts they may
need.  As posted earlier. I'm a part-time locksmith not an expert!  God
knows I wouldn't want to try & make a living this way!  :)  I just
thought I would offer my services to try & help list members. (my way
of giving something back)

Postage rates are as follows:

1 - 4 keys add $.75 for postage
5 - 8 keys add $1.00  "    "
9 - 12 keys add $1.25  "    "
13 or more??? if you really need this many, e-mail me!

Plus I'll need;

A working key for the ones you want made, (one round head, one square),
or the code itself.

Year and *make*, (*think I will know this), of the car

Your return address, and enclosed check payable to "RC Hellebuyck"

If interested, contact me by direct e-mail:  mrhell@sprynet.com

Thanks,

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª865
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