
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, September 2 1997      Volume 01 : Number 830



(Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow
Spam: It's really beginning to suck!
Re: cowl tag and vin info
Re: Door Hinge Rebuild
Show chrome, who does it?
RE: 70 Paint Codes
Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)
Re: drag engine buildup advice needed
GM A-body construction
Re: Drag car buildup advice needed
Re: NZ 403
Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O
Re: Door Hinge Rebuild
Re: Brothers auto
Re: Julian Show
Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!
394 tri-power for sale
Re: COUPE KING/PETER SLISKOVICH
Re: Brothers auto
Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!
Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!
New Archive Available
Re: COUPE KING/PETER SLISKOVICH
1970 442 convt. for trade
HEI Conversion results
Re: 1970 442 convt. for trade
problem
70 D88 Disk spindle needed
Vendor supply problems?( LONG)
Interesting find?
help
Re: Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)
Re: drag engine buildup advice needed
Aluminum Casting Cleanup
Say what?
NZ 403 -2
Re: 1970 442 convt. for trade
Re: Brothers auto
starter problem
Whole buncha stuff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 01:49:00 EDT
From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Subject: (Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow

For anyone in the St. Louis or Mid-West area:

BRING YOUR OLDSMOBILE....

The next REAL big show that you don't want to miss is the 14th Annual 
All-Oldsmobile Funshow.  This year, of course, we are celebrating 
Oldsmobile's 100th anniversary.  My wife and I are organizing Archway 
Oldsmobile's Annual Funshow this year.  It is a car show/swap meet that is 
open to the public and will be held on Sept 7, 1997.   This is a successful 
and growing event, and we anticipate the largest one ever for this year.  It 
is held at "The Heart of St. Charles Banquet center" parking lot, which is 
right next to Highway 70 (30 feet from the highway) and fully visible to 
thousands of people driving by on HWY 70.  It is also conveniently located 
next to Historic downtown St. Charles Riverfront Landing, and right next 
door to the Station Casino-St. Charles (Also one of our proud sponsors).  We 
had a good showing last year of old to new Olds.  A total of well over 100 
cars were on display.  Some of the highlights were a 1968 H/O, two 1970 
W30s, 1983 H/O 15th Anniversary model, 1972 Indy Pace car (all original, and 
never restored), 1955 olds, 1949 Olds and a great assortment of 442s and 
Cutlasses.  Many trophies were awarded, the '68 H/O took one.

This year we anticipate the largest turnout ever.

We are trying to get as much representation from Oldsmobiles 100 years as 
possible, and expect to see representation from the 30's through the 90's. 
 I will be providing the Oldies music (I used to work for Jukebox 96 FM here 
in St. Louis doing an oldies show, and have been doing mobile DJing since 
1982).  You can expect to see a performance by "Jake and Elwood's Rock and 
Roll, Rhythm and Blues Review" some time around noon or 1:00pm.   Also, food 
and beverages will be available.

Here is the information: (you can see a similar ad in Cars & Parts magazine) 


Sept. 7, 1997, 8am-5pm - St. Charles MO - Archway Oldmobile Funshow.  Car 
Show/swap meet that is open to the public, and held by The Archway 
Oldsmobile Club of St. Louis from 8am to 5pm.  Have a unique or classic 
Olds?  Come show it!  It is held at "The Heart of St. Charles Banquet 
center" parking lot right at HWY 70 and 5th street.  Prizes, and trophies 
given away in 16 categories.  Oldies music, also featuring Blues Brothers 
performance, arriving in '74 Dodge Monaco Bluesmobile replica.  For more 
information call John Palmberger (314)-355-4864

We are welcoming any and all Oldsmobiles to participate.  Your car does not 
have to be show quality to show it.  By doing this, we should have a great 
representation of all of Oldsmobiles different models, makes and years.  You 
don't have to enter your Olds in the competition to show it.  but, if you 
wish to compete in one of the 16 categories, the entry fee is only $10.00.

Please let me know if you need more specific directions, and I will be glad 
to provide them.  If you would like information about lodgings, I will be 
more than happy to provide it.  It actually is being held in a huge parking 
lot that is shared by the St. Charles Inn, and across the street is a Ramada 
(the Ramada that has a huge Noahs Ark in front of it ).

ps.  I will have the '68 Cutlass Supreme there, and the '69 4-4-2.
  .
/ | \
| | |
|/|\|
\ | /
Jeff Zeilmann
1605 Elizabeth Ellen Ct.
St. Peters, MO 63376-6542

Home Phone #: (314) 939-4613
Daytime #: (314) 891-7915
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible (and the NEW '69 4-4-2)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 07:00:29 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!

Greg,

	You made this a closed list right? So ??WHY?? do we keep getting more
spam than we used to?????!!!!! I'm getting really p*ssed off reading a
bunch of bull that has nothing to do with cars and wastes bandwidth!
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: cowl tag and vin info

> >Hi Don!
> >
> >I missed Joe's message about these VIN/cowl tag inconsistencies,
but I know
> >a guy in my local Olds club that has a 68 442 with a similar setup.
 He is
> >the original owner of the car and he says it was delivered that
way.  He
> >thinks they ran out of bodies that were tagged as 442's, and so they
> >started using Cutlass bodies to fill the demand.
> >
> >It would make sense to me, then, that this would have occurred late
in the
> >run of 68 442's.  Isn't there a three digit number somewhere on the
car
> >that indicates the day of the year (out of 365) that the car (or
part) was
> >built?  Also, aren't there some codes on parts/systems that
identify the
> >month/week that the part was built/installed?  If so, then you
could try to
> >use that to determine if the car was fake.  First look up these
numbers,
> >and then decide if they seem to be from the beginning of the model
run, or
> >near the end.  Does that make sense?  If the cowl tag has 336
instead of
> >344, then you'd expect it to be a late-68 442.  At least, that's my
theory.
> >
> >Comments, anyone?
> 
> Drew Senko

***************************
Just a case of myths run amok again! Every 68 and 69 442 has a 336
data plate. The story about "running out of 442 bodies so they had to
use Cutlass ones" is not true!!!!!!
 
===
John Pajak                       Information Spectrum Inc.
Network Installation Team
Naval Air Station, Patuxent River, Maryland

JSPajak@rocketmail.com

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:28:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Door Hinge Rebuild

Lloyd Ferguson, 

  Regarding your hinge pins, I've done this fix several times.  I have taken
a hacksaw and cut off the deformed end, which is two slivers of the pin bent
over, and then drive the pins out.

  I have done this job without removing the doors or hinges by cutting the
pins in 1/2 and driving them out while the door hinge remains in place.
 After reinstallation I drilled a hole through the pins and put a cotter pin
to keep them from falling out.  This method works good because your doors may
not have to be adjusted like they would if you toolk them off.

  The last set I did I just placed the hinge on a vise and gave it a couple
of good hits with a hammer and the pins flew out.

Good Luck

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 COnv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 07:39:40 -0600
From: "Stephen C. Chuck" <scc@teamquest.com>
Subject: Show chrome, who does it?

Show chrome!!

I heard someone here in the register does show chroming for a reasonable 
amount.  Could someone point me to this person?  My 68 cutlass front bumper 
is straight, but has lost a lot of it's chrome.

THANKS!!!

Stephen 68-cutlass-convert Chuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:58:37 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: 70 Paint Codes

That would be Rally Red Code 73. I have the 70 paint codes posted on 
my WEB page at:

http://home1.gte.net/betzel/BE.html

Bobby
70 442 Escape Back to the ...Past

- -----Original Message-----
From:	James Thingwold [SMTP:jht@exo.com]
Sent:	Sunday, August 31, 1997 8:59 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	70 Paint Codes

I received the following inquiry off my web page.  I know a few of you 
have
the paint code book(s) and can probably give me a correct response. 
 Please
post it to the list - it'll undoubtedly come in handy somewhere.

i understand there only a few (1970 442 W-30 convertibles)  with a 
certain
          color
          : which is orange in color but has a different name. i would 
like to
          find out for sure.

Thanks in advance.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

My cars & their alias'
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:40:44 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)

>The Offenhauser valve covers are polished cast aluminum.  They look
>pretty close
>in height to the originals, so don't know if they have enough learance
>for roller
>rockers. Won't put them on the car until I get it back from the
>body/paint guy.  The
>car that I saw with these on it was a'67 4-4-2 running a 400 with air,
>so don't think
>there should be a problem with the the stock A/C and alternator
>brackets?

That's great info; thanks for the lead. I'm always on the lookout for
possible valve-cover candidates for my cars, and while there's always the
old chrome covers, I'd be interested in something a bit more unusual (right
now I've got a pair of stock covers with "wrinkle-black" finish on them;
different, but still not that interesting). The GM performance catalog also
lists a set of cast covers, but I'm afraid to look at the price.

I'd really like some cast covers that will fit under the stock accessory
brackets, or fabricate some better looking accessory brackets that will be
compatible with tall valve covers.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:41:00 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: drag engine buildup advice needed

>Ok, first of all thanks to those that have replied to my first post about
>picking the right car to start my drag car project with.  Now for the
>engine.  There are a few issues that worry me with building up an Olds
>engine for drag use.  First of all is cost.  Since I do not have unlimited
>funds to drop into this project, I can not build a mega buck motor.  Can I
>get a consistent and reliable 455 built that will last a LONG time going
>down the 1/4 for a reasonable price? I can not afford to have the engine
>rebuilt every few months. I am looking for a mid to low 12 sec engine to
>start. 

If you build a <5700 rpm 455 as others have suggested, and drop it into the
'80 Cutlass, add some glass parts, a serious rear gear (>3.73) and a well
set-up automatic (TH350 or even PG), there's no reason you can't run
low-stress 12's, or even 11's if you have enough traction. And you can
probably assemble a motor such as that for around $3000, or even less
depending on what you get charged for machine work.

One other consideration; if you run the '80, you might want to consider
building a high-rpm 350. With an early block, forged 330 crank, 403 rods,
forged flat-top or even custom domed pistons, milled "C" heads with big
valves, and a port-matched Performer RPM intake, you could have an 8000rpm
stormer there! With some 4.56 rear gears, a 4500rpm stall race converter and
a built TH350, I would imagine you'd be into the 12's. Of course, you'd have
no power below 4000rpm, but then again, why would you ever let your engine
revs dip so low? ;)

No, seriously, either combination would do what you want, for a reasonable
price, using mostly factory parts.

>I would like to keep the car an Olds powered Olds...

As would we...

>but putting a BB
>Chevy is tempting for a few reasons. First, I can get a brand new crate 502
>with a 3yr/36,000 warranty. Is there any shops that offer some security
>like that?

Will they honor that warranty if the car gets to 36,000 miles a 1/4 mile at
a time? I imagine that you'll get a lot of laughs at the parts counter if
you say "Yeah, I was pulling 6500rpm through the traps when the rods went
through the block; so, when can I pick up my free replacement motor?". Heck,
if they offered unlimited motors for dragstrip use for three years or 36,000
miles for only $3500,  _I'd_ be the first in line with cash in hand; it'd be
fun to waste a motor every weekend ("Hey, Jarvis, wanna see how long a 502
can rev at 8000rpm?"), and have GM pick up the bill on a new one for the
following week! I could just call my local Chevy dealer before I went to the
strip, and tell them I think I'll need a warranty replacement motor
available for the following monday. heheheheh...

>Second is cost...BBC parts are fairly cheap and easy to find so if I do
>break something big I won't break my budget.  I am not looking for a chevy
>v. olds bash fest to begin, just honest unbiased (if that is possible
>:-)... opinions.   Thanks!

If you were planning on running 9's, then the 502 would be the way to go.
There's lots of heads, intakes, cams, etc. out there to make 650-700hp with
that motor. Of course, it would cost you around $7000 to do so with the
Chevy; to do the same might cost you around $1000-$3000 more to do with an
Olds, though it could be done. Bottom end strength would be the limiting
factor, and I imagine you'd be stretching the limits of the word
"streetability" with either engine. 

OTOH, if you want a semi-streetable car to run in the 12's, for a reasonable
price, I think the Olds 455/'80 Cutlass package would be perhaps the most
cost-effective way to go. Build an engine to the specs that others (Robert
Schinkel et al.) have suggested, use the good factory parts, and you'll be
in the 12's.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:40:58 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: GM A-body construction

>>I have been told that the GM A bodies from 1964 to 1972 were of a
>>unibody type of construction (you know, with front and rear frame stubs
>>and the main body as a structural support) but yet on the mid sixties
>>cutlass down the street has a frame.  WHo is right?
>
>They aren't unibody in the usual sense of the term. They do have full 
<snip>
>typical at the time. The idea was that the body would act as a structural 
>member, not just pieces bolted on to the frame. I think they continued 
>with this idea in the '65 full-sizers. From the lightness of frames used 
>on the '77 and up B & C bodies and the '78 and up A & G bodies I think 
>they took that idea another step forward later on.

Heh... Actually, on those "downsized" cars, the lightness of the frames was
accompanied by the lightness of the bodies as well. Many of the inner panels
are paper thin (check out the metal stamping of the brace right behind the
rear seat), so these cars have a certain amount of "flex" built into them,
which in Microsoft terms would be called a "feature". As much as I love my
'78 Electra (C-body), it's got the structural rigidity of a Flexi-Flyer.

The '64-'77 A-bodies (which of course were all full-frame; who is it that
told you otherwise, and what is his phone number? ;) had a very rigid
construction, by comparison. Just compare the decklid of a '77-'79 Delta or
98 with that of an earlier A-body; the Delta's decklid will flex when
twisted, whereas the A-body's is very rigid.

>>Also I have been noticing that sometimes my oil pressure gauge will
>>flutter when the engine is warmed up, is this something that I should
>>look into seriously?  The flutter is maybe +/- 1 PSI, and the lowest PSI
>>I've seen the pump put out (which was at idle) was 7 as per the service
>>manual.
>>
>>Mike Jones
>>'78 Olds 88

How many miles on it? How does that hot idle PSI compare to the PSI when
cold? Your bearings may be OK for now, but they're not going to be getting
any better. Just let the oil pressure pump everything up before you rev the
motor above an idle; I killed a couple rod bearings on my old 403 by not
doing so.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:41:01 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Drag car buildup advice needed

>If you do wish to race seriously, then the drum brakes are the way
>to go. You can adjust them real high - no drag on shoes - and pick up a few
>tenths.

??? This may have been the hot setup back in 1973, but I'd have to see some
hard evidence (back to back drag tests, same day, same car, w/drums vs.
w/discs) to imagine moving from a disc-braked car to a drum-brake car with a
*lot* of pedal travel!

Consider that on a disc brake car that is assembled properly, if you jack up
the front end and take off the front rim, you can turn the rotor by hand, I
imagine that the drag induced by disc brakes is on the order of, what,
1/20th of a horsepower? Will that equal a few tenths?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:02:05 GMT
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: NZ 403

>Thanx for replying
>Intended use?  currently in a CF Bedford van ( similar in size and shape
>to a late 70's GMC Van )
>Gear ratio - I think is a 12 bolt olds. We have a lot of Chev 12 bolts
>around, this is similar but has a bigger ring gear.  Our performance
>parts workshops don't have any idea or info on it.

I'm assuming that this is a Holden, produced in either Australia or in New
Zealand? Is this 403 an engine originally installed by Holden, or is it a
conversion (from a diesel 350 perhaps)? I doubt the rear is a 12-bolt Olds
unit (10-bolt internally; production ended in the US in 1970, though the
tooling may have made its way over there). What year was the CF series produced?

Whatever rear you have, you'll want some lower gears to get that thing
moving (I'm assuming a weight of >2 tons); probably 3.42-3.73's. Otherwise,
any mods to your 403 will not show up until higher speeds. You should also
change the torque converter to one with a higher stall, say, 2200-2400rpm,
to help get the engine into its power band.

>  This is the same for
>the 403, the only listing for parts are 350 petrol, 350 diesel and the
>455.  Our fuel octane rating is 91 & 96 unleaded.

As others have noted, the 403 shares most of its parts (aside from pistons,
rings and head gaskets) with the 350 petrol motor. If they don't know what a
403/6.6 litre motor is, ask for the 350/5.7L Oldsmobile parts.

>And of course if I can, I am going for speed.

Ah, our kind of guy!

>>to invest in a mild cam because a 403 is a slow turning motor.  also think
>>about getting the heads milled to increase the compression ratio.  i own a
>>403 and i am currently building a new set of heads for it.  the heads are off
>>a 73 350.  i am thinking of taking about 0.060 off the heads to make the
>>engine turn a few more rps.  if you mill the heads you must do a complete
>>head job, which includes valve job, and you will need new rings to withstand
>>the higher compression.

Swapping heads to get more compression is good advice on the 403.
Unfortunately, in New Zealand it might be hard to find the pre-'73 heads
that would really boost compression by a point and a half, so you may be
stuck with milling the stock 403 heads. The stock heads have good-sized
intake valves (2.00"), though the 1.5" exhausts are kind of small; the seats
can be cut for the larger 1.625" 455 valves, though, so do that if you can.
Custom high-compression pistons are cost-prohibitive (nearly $700US), and
not really necessary on a street motor. You'll probably be able to run the
91 octane gas, even if you bump the compression; my 9.5:1 403 runs great on
93 octane with the factory advance curve.

The factory-installed cam in the 403 is way too mild, hence its low-revving
reputation. You can get an idea of what the factory would have done with a
hot factory 403 from the camshaft that they put into their marine and
industrial 403's:

(from the Olds FAQ)
Part # 562301   68   294/296   .474/.472  403 Hi-perf. Marine thru  79

Yup, that'd be the '70 442 MT and '71 W-30 camshaft. It's a bit more wild
than my Performer grind cam, which makes the revs on my 403 really start
coming on at about 3000rpm, though my TH400 usually ends up shifting before
the revs start to fall off (I don't have a tach installed; it shifts from
first to second at 55mph, with a 2.41 rear gear, and gives a nice "kick"
into second, which pulls to 90mph. I really need 3.23's to take advantage of
its new power characteristics). By sound, it seems like the engine is
shifting somewhere between 5200-5700rpm, and that my hp peak is somewhere
around 5000-5400rpm. That factory marine cam would place the hp peak in the
5500-6000rpm range, so don't go by just what the factory installed in
high-geared factory luxury cars, which needed power in the 1000-3000 rpm
range. Even a mild 403 like mine can rev like a 350. It's probably wise to
keep it below 6000rpm, though, with the windowed mains.

>>a 403 and rocket 350 are prety much the same motor. the 403 has bigger
>>pistons and crank and pushrod displacement. the 350 is a faster motor by

Crank and pushrods are identical to the 350, and to the 330. That means you
could add a forged 330 crank, if you really wanted to. 

On the pushrods, however, if you use an aftermarket performance camshaft,
you'll have to deal with the non-adjustable valvetrain. One option is to
stick with the factory performance cams, which don't have a reduced
base-circle, so that any variation in clearances due to a valve job is taken
up by the automatic adjustment of the hydraulic lifter. A second option is
to install an aftermarket adjustable rocker arm setup, such as from Comp
Cams. A third option is to use a reduced base-circle cam, with longer
pushrods, and compensate for any differences with shims under the rocker
pedestals. I took this third route, and have had no valvetrain problems
usually associated with improper clearances (clicking, tapping, etc). In
fact, when I pulled the head to replace a blown head gasket, the rockers
didn't have any signs of wear on them after one year; improperly set-up
rockers will wear very rapidly.

>>about 5 horse power. the parts are pretty much the same cause the block is
>>the same exact size externally, so anything a 350 has u can do for a 403, so
>>don't worry about messing anything up.

Exactly. Treat it like a 350, for the most part. just keep the revs below
6000 rpm, and add a true dual-exhaust if possible. Just added one to my 403,
and now it's not choked off above 4000rpm as it was (used to have a great
power band, from 3000rpm to 4000rpm; now it just keeps pulling and pulling
and pulling... Gotta get me some 3.23's, so I can have my fun at *legal*
speeds!).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:36:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: '69 Cutlass trunklid spoiler; ?H/O

Let me know what you need.

coupe King @aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:16:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Aksomitis <aksomi@cs.uregina.ca>
Subject: Re: Door Hinge Rebuild

One other thing I found out while changing door pins:  If you use the 
bushings that look like a hat, always place them so that the hinges use 
the 'brim'of the hat to hold them in place.  Torching the pins in 1/2 
then 
pounding out the two pieces is the easiest way I could find to do get 
them out (One hinge at a time).

...............self-promo sig file Version 2.2...............
Eric Aksomitis:
Virtual Junkyard: Current count -> 5 vehicles
Oldsmobile Index: Current Count -> 8 vehicles
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/       mailto:aksomi@cs.uregina.ca
Last update: 970504
..............................................................

On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Lloyd Ferguson wrote:

> The driver's door on my '69 cutlass seems to have worn hinge bushings as
> well as a broken detent roller.  I have noticed that most of the catalogs
> as well as the local parts store (the HELP line), sell pin and bushing kits
> at a quite reasonable price.
> 
> What concerns me is that the pins in my doors seem to have deformed ends
> presumably to stop them from comming out whereas the new ones do not.
> 
> How does one go about removing these pins and do the new pins require any
> modification?  Any other hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Lloyd Ferguson
> ferguson@themall.net
> (818) 241-9350
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:14:46 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

CarrDuff@aol.com wrote:
> 
>   Boy I hope their not on this list, I may never get my parts now !!!!!!!

Steve does read this list.  So the answer is yes.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:16:37 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Julian Show

Lisa wrote:
> 
> Too bad- if I don't meet Erick at this coming show, I'll be completely
> convinced I'll never get to meet anyone on the list :-)

We need to have a get together that is closer to us Lisa.  Julian is
quite a haul in this weather.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:20:03 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!

Matt Cremean wrote:
> 
>         You made this a closed list right? So ??WHY?? do we keep getting more
> spam than we used to?????!!!!! I'm getting really p*ssed off reading a
> bunch of bull that has nothing to do with cars and wastes bandwidth!

I think I have only received 1 spam e-mail since the list went closed.
Am I the only one?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:11:40 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: 394 tri-power for sale

This was lost, found it last night . . .

I found this at the Iola, WI show. Was available, still might be. 394
tri-power, $395.

Contact Gary Wiese at Automotive Specialties, performance machine shop,
at 414-233-0115; 7313 Hwy 45, Neenah, WI. If I remember correctly,
Neenah is in the general area of south of Green Bay, north and east of
Sheboygan. West of the big lake of course! Check Mapquest for sure.

David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:10:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Oldsparts@aol.com
Subject: Re: COUPE KING/PETER SLISKOVICH

PETER-

Your refund is in the mail.

Sorry you feel this way-Wish you had approached me directly.  

We went the distance to supply you with top quality parts.  When the quarters
were discontinued we even went so far as to have one of our competitors ship
them to you, so you wouldn't miss out on the last of the General Motors
restoration parts program approved quarters.  I doubt any other company would
have done that for you.

We make every effort to completely satisfy all of our reasonable customers.
 I am  quite surprised by your little passive/aggressive  attack on Brothers
Automotive Products.  We are here some 50-60 hours a week and take literally
hundreds of calls each day.   We even pay for them!  Your aspersion that it's
"impossible to get through to them on the phone" is just plain erroneous.
 You did not seem to have any trouble getting through to me this morning.

Regarding e-mail-I usually read the e-mail in the evenings between 11PM and
1AM.  It's difficult to respond to a customers request about an order, when I
don't have the data base in front of me. I do this at home as we have no time
to do it during the day.  I don't check my e-mail every day.  I probably have
not read 5 of my newsgroup digests all summer due to a lack of time.   We
maintain the e-mail as an information conduit for those who discover us on
the web.  As previously stated, we maintain 5 phone lines 6 days a week for
customer service request at your convenience.  All you had to do was respond
to my e-mail response and CALL US during normal business hours. 

Regarding your Inner fender liners-There has been a problem with this
product.  When we were made aware of it we asked the manufacture to fix the
problem and stopped shipping the product until the problem was corrected.  I
am told you were made aware of this situation-I regret any confusion that
existed on this subject.

I resent and reject your caricaturization of us as a "Mickey Mouse Operation"
just as you would if I told the A.M.A. you were a Mickey Mouse doctor.
   Were you mad that we were closed for the national holiday?  I wonder what
prompted you to vilify us in this way.  Did you honestly expect to elicit a
positive response from us by slamming us publicly without first attempting to
contact us directly?
 

 We are reasonable people who go to extraordinary lengths to service and take
care of all our customers.  This month starts our 20th year as one of the
nations leading suppliers  of Oldsmobile parts and restorations.  We have
dedicated our lives and resouces to helping further the restoration and
preservation of old Oldsmobiles.  We don't sell Chevy parts.  I would do
anything a reasonable customer (that includes you) requested of me in an
effort to please that customer.  I don't think, however, that your posting
was fair or reasonable. Accordingly, as was previously stated, your refund is
in the mail.

Sincerely For Oldsmobiles,
Steve Kenny
Owner

P.S. To Steve Dietrich-Your air cleaner will ship this week.  Thanks for your
patience!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

Yes, they do read this list. And boy! when I called them this AM to follow up
did I get a snippy response and the promise of a prompt refund.
Just thought I'd  let y'all know...
Peter Sliskovich
Coupe King@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 12:58:06 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!

Matt Cremean wrote:
> 
> Greg,
> 
>         You made this a closed list right? So ??WHY?? do we keep getting more
> spam than we used to?????!!!!!

It's easy enough to post under a false name, and possibly fool the
listserver by doing so?  I don't know if this was the case, since I
didn't see the spam in question.  I think we ~all~ remember an incedent
involving false and forged E-mail addresses :(

> I'm getting really p*ssed off  

Hmm...   Must have been a tough weekend.  I usually find much more
important things to get overly excited about.  A non-profit/FREE
listserver service shouldn't be expected to be excessively perfect,
right?  Suggestions are great, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.  

>reading a bunch of bull 

Uh, so don't read it?  

>that has nothing to do with cars and wastes bandwidth!

Like this?  :)

Seriously, I don't like the spammers either, but they aren't much of an
actual problem on the list.  Just like the non-Olds postings, you can
delete them and get on with your life.  On the digest, you may just have
to hit the page down key a time or two, and may be more of an
inconvenience, but I couldn't imagine it being any form of
life-threatening disaster, can it?  Greg's quite likely the only one who
has ~any~ right to be p*ssed about it, since he's the only one working
on fixing it.  The rest of us members have every right to desire
perfection, but ~no~ right to expect it (myself included) - remember
this ~is~ a free service.  As I said, Greg's quite likely upset that the
spammers can still get in, but I think it'd upset him more that any of
us would put pressure on him to fix it.  Ideas are more than welcome
(I'm sure), but criticisms should be kept quiet.   If anyone ~really~
feels the need to complain about the spammers, reply personally to the
sender (if possible) and unload.  ...IF they are still on that address. 
You can always try to contact the spammers physical address that they're
advertising, and do whatever comes naturally to you...  From a pay
phone, and collect calls, or something...  :)  

Back on subject, give Greg some space there, if it's possible he'll get
it worked out, if not, s**t happens.  We'll still have a great ~free~
list that's full of information and friends, and that's what's really
important.  Right?


             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
	     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
               	     Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:11:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Spam: It's really beginning to suck!

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, mrada wrote:
> Matt Cremean wrote:
> >         You made this a closed list right? So ??WHY?? do we keep getting more
> > spam than we used to?????!!!!! I'm getting really p*ssed off reading a
> > bunch of bull that has nothing to do with cars and wastes bandwidth!
> 
> I think I have only received 1 spam e-mail since the list went closed.
> Am I the only one?

I get a bunch at my account but it's been hard to tell in the past if it
is to me directly or to the list. Looking at the weekend's digests I see
evidence of one such message only, and I have no idea how it got thru. I
know I get bounces now when these try to reach the list, so the closed
function seems to work most of the time. I don't understand how this one 
was able to get through.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:39:23 -0500
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Subject: New Archive Available

The 700 series of Archived Digests are now available on

http:\\www.calcon.net\~easton

Get 'em while they're hot.  :-)

If anybody wants a CD of this stuff let me know, as I'll be cutting
some more soon.  Blanks + mailer + postage costs put them
around $10.  I'll leave the testimonials on content to the 8 people
that won them in Lansing...

- -Jeff
jeff.easton@abbott.com
somewhere north of Chicago
1970 442  4-speed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:08:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: COUPE KING/PETER SLISKOVICH

In a message dated 97-09-02 16:36:25 EDT, you write:

<< We are reasonable people who go to extraordinary lengths to service and
take
 care of all our customers.  This month starts our 20th year as one of the
 nations leading suppliers  of Oldsmobile parts and restorations. >>
I resent and reject your caricaturization of us as a "Mickey Mouse Operation"
just as you would if I told the A.M.A. you were a Mickey Mouse doctor.

So what do you call it when you buy 455 frame mounts for $40.00 and sell them
for 
$275.00.  I know making a profit is priority, but thats totally insane since
one can use 350 frame mounts with 350 motor mounts on a 455 and achieve the
same results.  I looked at your catalog, a personally, I rather deal with
Mike Fusick or 
Ron Memmer.   Boy the great world of take your arm and left leg for a part
thats still very easy to come by. 

My .02 cents worth,
W MACHINES
72 442 W-30 
fully restored with Fusick and Memmer and Year One parts

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:34:34 -0400
From: Al Barlow <iamoz@ime.net>
Subject: 1970 442 convt. for trade

1970 Olds 442 convertible. Car needs to be restored. Here is a general idea
of what the car is:
Original 455 (runs but skips), original transmission, disk brakes, bench
seat automatic, good frame, original dual exhaust manifolds still on
engine, car was driven daily in 1994. I will trade this car for an original
1971 or 1972 OAI (ram air hood) in excellent condition with the hold downs.
Or will trade for OAI (ram air hood) needing to be restored plus cash.

Al Barlow
Thomaston, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:49:45 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: HEI Conversion results

Just before Lansing I bought a rebuilt HEI from the Carb Shop.  Supposedly a
blueprinted, spark indexed, recurved, high volt coil, heavy duty, etc, good to
6500 RPM.  Paid 225$ for it.  Pretty impressive unit.  Although apparently the
MSD billet distributor is available for another 30$ or so and is probably a
much better unit.

Anyway, its in and I am impressed.  Noticeably better power up to around 3kRPM,
and idles much much smoother, such that I can idle comfortably at around
550RPM, as opposed to around 700 before.  As to fuel economy, so far with only
highway driving back from Lansing I haven't recorded any increase over well
maintained points.  Driving around town I would expect some small increase,
simply because the engine seems more efficient at lower speeds.  It starts more
easily too.  Performance on high speed WOT runs is as yet undetermined.  I'm
still trying to work out the tuning with the unit.  It came with a report of
the exact curve characteristics of the distributor, but as shipped, it had way
too much vacuum advance and the installed springs also were too aggressive.
Right now, with 2 medium springs, 14 deg initial and no vacuum it drives fine
with no pinging.  Hooking up the vacuum advance and turning it all the way
counterclockwise is still giving me too much vacuum, such that I get part
throttle pinging.  And yet, even this minimal amount of vacuum adv seems to
make a big difference down low--more torque.  I'm reluctant to give that up,
although the pinging at highway speeds is really annoying.  I'm going to have
to play with this guy some more.  Will let you allknow the results..

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:37:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Hoopingarner <khooping@bright.net>
Subject: Re: 1970 442 convt. for trade

Al,

I was wondering if you would be interested in selling the car outright?  My
father has been looking for a '70-72 Olds 442 Convt. for sometime but has
just not come across the right car.  If you're only interested in trading
for a '71-72 OAI hood I'm certain I could come up with a very nice one.  I'd
obviously like to know more about the condition of the car. You could call
me collect at 419-859-3768 or e-mail me your number & I can call you.  

Best Regards,

Kevin Hoopingarner
'70 Olds 442 W-30
Findlay OH.

At 05:34 PM 9/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>1970 Olds 442 convertible. Car needs to be restored. Here is a general idea
>of what the car is:
>Original 455 (runs but skips), original transmission, disk brakes, bench
>seat automatic, good frame, original dual exhaust manifolds still on
>engine, car was driven daily in 1994. I will trade this car for an original
>1971 or 1972 OAI (ram air hood) in excellent condition with the hold downs.
>Or will trade for OAI (ram air hood) needing to be restored plus cash.
>
>Al Barlow
>Thomaston, Maine
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:17:36 -0400
From: jim helle <helle@theonramp.net>
Subject: problem

I have not recieved any e-mail for 3 weeks. Are we still connected?

Jim Helle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:48:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 70 D88 Disk spindle needed

Someone near Hell-A recently mentioned a 70 D88 in the 'yard w/ disk brakes.
Make a few $, help out Roger Bacon?

He needs some disk brakes stuffs.


Email *him* at  AS07966C@readwo.com

w/ your proposals, ASAP por favor.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:49:48 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Vendor supply problems?( LONG)

> I looked at your catalog, a personally, I rather deal with
> Mike Fusick or
> Ron Memmer.   Boy the great world of take your arm and left leg for a part
> thats still very easy to come by.
> 
OK, what's with all this vendor "bashing"?  Everyone has their opinion
on service and sometimes even the best places get behind.  I think what
the COUPE KING was experiencing rang harmonous to a lot of other
experiences with Brother's Automotive. (Steve, if you're reading this,
feel free to respond.  And try not to take it personally.)  If they
truly don't need our business (I don't believe that), then that's OK, we
will go to other sources.  I don't think that's the case.  Cold hard
fact: just like anything else, some are better than others.  I think
people are reasonable the first time it happens, because that's the way
it goes sometimes.  But continued trends tend to make one weary.

I've read Steve's (from Brother's Automotive) rebuttal, and he brought
out some good points.  Maybe he should tell what he said in his rebuttal
to the customer's up front when they order parts that there could be
problems, instead of just taking an order and then not notifying
customers when their parts are going to be significantly delayed.  I'm
sure if Steve's phones were broken, he wouldn't perceive it as good
service from the telephone repairman if he suddenly showed up three
weeks after he said he'd be there that afternoon.  If answering the
phones and such is taking up a huge chunk of life, then it's time to
hire more help.

This is the point I'm trying to make.  I've worked in the service
industry for years now, and the way customers look at it is this:  "What
have you done for me lately?"  It doesn't matter that someone puts in 2
hours, or 200 hours to get the same results, the customer is at the
other end.  Results is all they see.  Just like at a shareholder's
meeting, they aren't worried about the reasons WHY stock price's are
dipping as much as they are worried about the fact that they just ARE
dropping.  In dealing with customer's, perception is EVERYTHING!  I know
I wouldn't care too much to go see my dentist if he didn't bathe, and
his teeth were falling out.  May be a good dentist, but it's the
perception thing of what people come to expect.....

Now, with that out of the way, let me address the cars built with other
people's parts.  Fusick and Year One.  OK.  But Ron Memmer?  Come on! 
This guy is just out to make a buck, and he could care less about
whether you are satisfied.  Here again, my perception.  This is what
happened to me:

I called Ron many moons ago about some H/O parts, and trim items, etc. 
He said he didn't have some of the stuff, so he would take my name and
number.  Now comes the pissy part.  A couple months ago, he called ME
out of the blue, and said he had the H/O parts coming, and we agreed
roughly on the price.  I told him I'd send the money the next day.  He
said to wait until he got the parts in.  (Glad I did.)  The next week,
he never calls back like he said he would.  Then I FINALLY get hold of
him, then he says he decided against selling them, but if he did, he'd
sell them to me.  THAT in itself torqued me off, but then the next issue
of JWO comes out, and he has those H/O parts listed for sale!!!!!  He's
not held in very high regards in my eyes.  I considered that low, and
very inconsiderate.  He knows I had the money.  Only some snake would do
that to someone else.  So if you are buying from Ron, go for it.  He'll
never see a check from me.

So you see, my perception of Ron Memmer is based on a bad experience
with him.  But, he sealed his fate with me because of it.

My FOUR cents.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 20:01:27 -0500
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Interesting find?

I have have found access to 20 control panels from Dyno machines recently 
dismantled from Chrysler. I have got one for myself. Absolutely HUGE 
gauges, lights, knobs, switches all placed in a heavy metal board. These 
were supposed to be scrapped but the enterprising demolition man saved 
the master boards and the panels they were mounted in. Unfortunetly, the 
heavy dyno equipment has been scrapped (oh, my...). I could probably get 
these somewhere between $50 to $100 a pop... Any SERIOUS interest, please 
E-Mail me. What I am going to do with mine? It will be a centerpiece for 
my barn going up this Spring, including the electrical hook ups so that 
the lights are functional...

Regards,
Mike


Michael R. Hall: OCA #17903                    Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net

1971 Oldsmobile 442    
1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:06:56 -0400
From: jim helle <helle@theonramp.net>
Subject: help

I have lost all contact with the olds web site. Haven't had any e-mail
in 2 weeks. All of my letters to the  olds e-mail address go unanswered.
If anyone gets this letter, Please e-mail me back and let me know whats
up. I really enjoy the site!

Jim Helle
helle@theonramp.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:07:28 -0700 (MST)
From: idaholc@primenet.com (william goodnight)
Subject: Re: Offy Valve Covers (was re: '55 Close to Ready)

>>The Offenhauser valve covers are polished cast aluminum.  They look
>>pretty close
>>in height to the originals, so don't know if they have enough learance
>>for roller
>>rockers. Won't put them on the car until I get it back from the
>>body/paint guy.  The
>>car that I saw with these on it was a'67 4-4-2 running a 400 with air,
>>so don't think
>>there should be a problem with the the stock A/C and alternator
>>brackets?
>
>That's great info; thanks for the lead. I'm always on the lookout for
>possible valve-cover candidates for my cars, and while there's always the
>old chrome covers, I'd be interested in something a bit more unusual (right
>now I've got a pair of stock covers with "wrinkle-black" finish on them;
>different, but still not that interesting). The GM performance catalog also
>lists a set of cast covers, but I'm afraid to look at the price.
>
>I'd really like some cast covers that will fit under the stock accessory
>brackets, or fabricate some better looking accessory brackets that will be
>compatible with tall valve covers.
>_______________________________________________________
>Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
>
>
>I missed your previous discussion re: Valve Covers.  Apparently you located
a source for aluminum valve covers for a 455!?  Are these finned aluminum?
What is the price?  I am also in the market.  Thanks!

Bill Goodnight
Goodnight & Associates, Inc.
idaholc@primenet.com
Boise, Idaho

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:12:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: DocOlds723@aol.com
Subject: Re: drag engine buildup advice needed

See Bullets:

>Ok, first of all thanks to those that have replied to my first post about
>picking the right car to start my drag car project with.  Now for the
>engine.  There are a few issues that worry me with building up an Olds
>engine for drag use.  First of all is cost.  Since I do not have unlimited
>funds to drop into this project, I can not build a mega buck motor.  Can I
  Typical problems in an Olds is keeping the bearings in place:
     Run ID of main bores 0.0005 under nominal.
     Nitride the crank
     Get some aluminum rods if you need rods, They are the same cost as steel
and 
       they are steetable. They take alot of weight out.
     Run a lot of piston to wall clearance, on any piston ~0.008"
     These should keep the bottom end together.

>get a consistent and reliable 455 built that will last a LONG time going
>down the 1/4 for a reasonable price? I can not afford to have the engine
>rebuilt every few months. I am looking for a mid to low 12 sec engine to

   The name of the game is matching, matching, matching. Don't try to put a
big cam in a low compression motor, or with stock heads or a single plane
intake. It just won't  work. I prefer the Port-O-Sonic over the Torker. It
flows better than the torker, and has better shaped runners. It has more
material for porting/mathcing as well. I'd also go with an 850DP (if you're
going to dish it out, get the biggest.) The cubes can handle it. 
   Cam selection will depend out what knid of $$$$ you want to spend on
heads. This includes port work, valves, valve train.....

  The olds motor will make good torque at a reasonable price.
  I have an honest 3960lb car (without me) running 11.00's. I've put $3K into
the motor, although I do all of the headwork myslef. 12.00's can be done
relatively cheaply.

>start. I would like to keep the car an Olds powered Olds...but putting a BB
>Chevy is tempting for a few reasons. First, I can get a brand new crate 502
>with a 3yr/36,000 warranty. Is there any shops that offer some security
>like that?
>Second is cost...BBC parts are fairly cheap and easy to find so if I do
>break something big I won't break my budget.  I am not looking for a chevy
>v. olds bash fest to begin, just honest unbiased (if that is possible
>:-)... opinions.   Thanks!


Dave

'74 442 Drag/Show

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:44:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Aluminum Casting Cleanup

This aluminum manifold I mentioned yesterday is in pretty good shape but 
could use a general cleaning. We thought of oven cleaner, or bead 
blasting, or even acid or caustic dipping. Anyone have any tips or 
warnings about how best to make it look new again without damaging it?

Thanks in advance...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:55:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Say what?

> From: Geo679@aol.com
>Subject: Re: 403 olds
>a 403 and rocket 350 are prety much the same motor. the 403 has bigger
>pistons and crank and pushrod displacement.

Huh? Pardon my lack of technical lingo, but I can't say as I've ever heard of
"pushrod displacement" before... what exactly is that? Is more better?

On another note, the 403 crank is bigger in what way? The weights are more
weighty, to balance the weightier piston ass'ys I guess, but the stroke is the
same, bearing sizes the same, etc.

Now, the 403 is well known to have beefier RODS than the little brothers. Same
size journals, same length, fully fungible except for balancing concerns.

>The 350 is a faster motor by about 5 horse power.

Really? So, that 88 I saw with the 403 which was running in the 13's could do
better by dropping 53 CID? Hmmmmm......

>the parts are pretty much the same cause the block is
>the same exact size externally, so anything a 350 has u can do for a 403, so
>don't worry about messing anything up

Agreed.
In my experience, 403 pistons are pricey, hard to find forged. Easy spice-up:
if pistons are re-usable, just hone cylinders, new rings & bearings, the usual
oil system mods, #7a 1972 350 heads, fitted w/ larger intake & mabe xst valves,
a nice cam, new springs. Oh, be sure to use 1.6 ratio rockers ;-)

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: NZ 403 -2

Kia Ora Chris

- --pardon my ignorance again, but, huh?

> Thanx for replying

- --my pleasure

> Intended use?  currently in a CF Bedford van ( similar in size and shape
> to a late 70's GMC Van )
> Gear ratio - I think is a 12 bolt olds. We have a lot of Chev 12 bolts

That's great news, but sheds no light on the gear RATIO question. If nothing
else, jack it up, in N, and turn the driveshaft until both rear wheels have
turned exactly one turn- the # of driveshaft turns required to do this is the
rear end ratio. I use chalk or a paint pen to help determine exactly when 1
turn has been achieved at each wheel, and to count d'shaft turns more
accurately.

> around, this is similar but has a bigger ring gear.  Our performance
> parts workshops don't have any idea or info on it.  This is the same for

The Year One ?? catalog had a nifty drawing of the different GM diffs & how to
ID them. Chevy has a gear-depression in the cover, and crinkles between each
pair of cover bolts. Easy outside ID. Can't find that info right now, but
feeble memory says that o-type [Olds] has parallel ribs, and P-type has a
single rib??

> the 403, the only listing for parts are 350 petrol, 350 diesel and the
> 455.

Obviously time to get catalogs from Kanter, PST, Mondello, etc. Or visit by
internet? The PST kit sounds far & away the best deal to me.

> Our fuel octane rating is 91 & 96 unleaded.

Prolly same as here. What Comp. Ratio do hot rodders generally run there?

> And of course if I can, I am going for speed.
> Dave

Yeah, but, Dave, if you have a 2.56 ratio in that 12-bolt, there's no point in
getting a rowdy cam, huge valves, huge carb & intake, headers, etc. Well,
*almost* no point.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:20:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: DJV442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 442 convt. for trade

hello,
i was wondering if you would consider selling the car outright for i don't
have access to the hood you requested. i do have a 71 c/s convertible with
buckets/console,350/4 that is driven daily for a trade if you were
interested.if not..i would still be interested in a cash price.if you'd
rather just trade it for the hood..i certainly understand.i',m in mass..so if
your interested..please e-mail me...thanks for your time...DJV442@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brothers auto

CarrDuff@aol.com wrote:
> 
>   Boy I hope their not on this list, I may never get my parts now !!!!!!!

Steve does read this list.  So the answer is yes.

Chris Sparks


As I saw in thier response to another message and Steve's "PS" to myself.

Steve Dietrich

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 21:29:57 -0400
From: jim helle <helle@theonramp.net>
Subject: starter problem

When I bought my 72 cutlass it had a flex fan on the motor. The previous
owner said he put it on because he had trouble starting the car after he
drove it for a while. It would start fine after being driven. I replaced
the flex fan with the original. Now I am having starting the car after
driving it for half hour or so. Let it cool for 30 to 45 mins it will
spin rite over. Previous owner said he put new starter on just before I
bought it. Anyone ever had the same problem? Anyone offer a solution?

Thanks in advance
Jim Helle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Whole buncha stuff

CarrDuff@aol.com wrote:
> (Have been an Olds Owner & Restorer( Just a Hobby) since 1896)
Wow!  Now that is impressive! :-)

[[ Geez, how tough could it have been, the OLDEST cars around would only be 2-3
years old. Of course, boneyard pickins musta been REAL slim! ;-)
]]

[[ Please, not to dig up the dead horse, but...]]
>Chris,
Apology accepted. I must admit that I also owe you and the members an
apology for my article I placed as I did not mean to offend anyone. The use
of the word "junk yard" was inappropriate. What happened was a person here
I know locally said he wanted first refussal and would give me between $300
and $400 for the car to part out. I was really hoping someone with more

[[ Ah, a simple misunderstanding... exacerbated by someone's Big Mouth ;-O  ]]

time and mopney than myself could save this car.So with that in mind and I
must admit the chance to make a few dollars for my 71 442 convertible, I
opted to post the article to the lovers of these cars. I agree that I shoud
not be trying to make money off "family" members and with that in mind I
would gladly let anyone here have this car for the $100 I paid to have it
towed to my house. I hope this clears up this mess I started as I would
like to continue to be an active member of this group ready to help when I
can.
Al Barlow

[[ Wow, that's a bargain now by any measure! That's better than I dreamed would
ever become of this story! ]]
- --------------------------
restoration of all the components to the car and began tearing down the seats
when there it was,  behind the plastic back of the passenger side seat,
hogged ring onto the springs.  What a find tonight.  I think I'll go get a
good stiff drink to celebrate.

Thought I share this just in case someone was having the same problem, or
someone cares.
Steve Dietrich

[[I care! Congrats! I know in some small way how you feel. While I have not
been so fortunate as to find a BS for my car[s], I did find proof that the
convertible was indeed a factory W30 after studying the information available
for a long time. Had this internet/ list been in effect back when I went to buy
it, I could have asked, "hey, how come there's a bog ol' 4" hole in the inner
fender well down by the battery?" & got an answer...
  I think I'll help you celebrate, tonite... (hic) ]]
- ---------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Yorcoy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Members

Who had the bucket seats for sale to begin with? and how Much?
Rick

[[ Dang, Rick, wouldn't wanna change that subject line, huh? Sure makes it seem
like that issue lasted longer than any terrestrial issue should... ]]
- ----------------------------
        how about scanning the build sheet and sending it to Bryceman to
put in on the Olds web page. I for one  would love to see what a W30
build sheet looks like. BTW congratulations I know the feeling...
Fernando Proietto

[[ I second the motion. Would love to see a real one. ]]
- --------------------------
Subject: Re: W-455 intake question
You mention the pcv going into the manifold, it can't go there because
it would not function correctly there.

RC it is impossible for the hose to connect from the carb back to the
intake.....it would no do anything!  Pcv is suppost to suck the blowby
out of the crank case. Unless this fitting is not in the runners of the
intake.

[[ BINGO! Those intakes had a special boss there, which led right down
betweenthe water passage & the front A/F runner, to... the lifter valley a.k.a.
crankcase. ]]
- ------------------------
Well, with work proceeding on my 1970 Cutlass, time to part out the ramblin'
wreck 1968 Cutlass.  The body is shot, so I'm going to dismantle and keep and
sell what I can.  Better to give it to a collector than send it to a
junkyard.         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^

He da MAN! I love this guy! It's a damn lotta work dragging car-casses around,
keeping them around, keeping the gov't off one's back [$600 fence comes to
mind], extracting parts that the buyer never comes thru on... etc. etc.
  Costs about $20 every time the wrecker moves... $5 it seems to fire up the
torch. It's not like we part-outers are driving brand new Auroras, either.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #830
********************************

