To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #820


oldsmobile-digest       Tuesday, August 26 1997       Volume 01 : Number 820



Looking for 100th flag !
Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]
Re: Looking for 100th flag !
Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]
Re: Lansing
Re: People gone.
Re: Deltas, old digests and questions-longish
Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI
Lansing Parade Burnouts
Re: Lansing
(Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow
Re: Deltas
Re: Deltas
RE: Build Sheets
403 or  455
RE: Build Sheets
RE: Lansing
Re: Build Sheets
Re: Looking for 100th flag !
UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455
I'm BAAACK (from both Lansing and summer vacation)
Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455
Lansing stories
Re: Back from the road trip
Re: delta 88s II
Late bargains at the Car Corral?
Lansing stories
Re: Lansing Memories
List guy's not so bad after all......
UNBOUNCE: Add Me
Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?
Pertronix ignition question
Re: Olds extravaganza
Re: HEI
Oldsmobile Centennial Club - NEW OCA CHAPTER !!!
Oldsmobiles in my life...(longish)
Re: 455 Heat Stoves
DBL scoop air cleaner
Re: Lansing (loooong!)
Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455
Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?
Re: Re-send
Re: People gone.
Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455
Re: Re-send-Centennial Scrapbook
Re: [Fwd: Mid 70's Vintage Toronado's] (fwd)
Live Sex..NO VIDEO DELAY..Like TV!|
403 vs 350
More Lansing Pics!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:38:58 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <3sticks@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Looking for 100th flag !

One bad memory of the 100th celebration.......some nice spectator or I
hate to think fellow Olds owner, thought we wouldn't mind loosing the
flag given us for the motorcade. Needless to say so far I've been unable
to replace it. So if anyone who attended the 100th. was lucky enough to
get more than one, and is willing to part with it for a good cause, let
me know. I'm attempting to contact Oldsmobile, but I heard they even
lost a full box from where they we given them out from. So I don't know
if they even have ny. Very nice, huh.

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|


        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 8/25/97)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:54:16 -0400
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]

At 09:30 AM 8/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>The guy your refering to we heard was asking $100.00 believe-it-or-not.
>Mine is 2218/2500, and I wouldn't part with it for anything!

Bill,

I wouldn't, either, but I think this guy was figuring on having a plaque
after it was all said and done because he'd have yours as well as some of
your money for his.  But his plaque wouldn't have _his_ correct
registration number.  But it would still be a plaque!

I wonder if he sold it.


Dan



**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:04:10 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for 100th flag !

> One bad memory of the 100th celebration.......some nice spectator or I
> hate to think fellow Olds owner, thought we wouldn't mind loosing the
> flag given us for the motorcade.
> Bill !
>         http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 8/25/97)

I was on the first over pass after the cars entered the interstate and
there was probable at least half a dozen flags laying on the road after the
motorcade. With all the traffic backed upped with pissed off drivers I
didn't think it would be a good idea to try and go down there and get them.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:05:57 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]

> I heard that the guy who was lucky enough to get registration number 442
> was trying to sell his plaque in exchange for your plaque plus some
> undetermined amount of money.  I don't know what he was asking or whether
> he ever sold it.  I would guess he was not a 442 owner!
>
> Dan
He wanted your plaque plus $100 for the 442/2500 plaque. Some people will
do anything for a buck.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:11:45 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing

> The Saturday parade was the first parade I ever saw were
> the police spent more time keeping the parade participants
> under control, than doing crowd control.  It seems burn-outs
> were frowned upon.
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----
> Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.

I got a kick out of the '8? H/O that would do a burn out coast  20-30' stop
do another burn out coast 20-30' stop.......

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:21:07 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: People gone.

> Lisa
>
>  Don't give up as there are always to get more.  Of course, I don't have
a
> wife to contend with.  But then, you don't need one of those anyway.
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

If you don't have a wife who does your laundry? Your mom?

Yesterday my wife was complaining about doing all the laundry from Lansing
and since she is always telling my that mowing the lawn is easy and doesn't
take as long as the laundry does I offered to do the laundry if she mowed.
I couldn't believe all the excuses she came up with as to why she couldn't
mow the yard.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:37:54 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Deltas, old digests and questions-longish

> Of course this brings me to another thing.  Does anyone still here know
> where I can buy those repair books for my car?  Not Chilton, but the good
> ones <grin>
> Laura
> 66 Delta 88...Pook the ghost car
> Bryan, TX  (soon to be Dallas, TX <cheer>)

I got '65 Body and Chassis Service manuals (2 books) for $35 from

Imperial Acres Automotive Data
12201 Old Columbus rd.
S. Vienna, Ohio   45369
937-568-4081

The books are a little dirty and the corners are folded over. The Chassis
manual is missing the last couple pages but they cover the Cutlass so it
wasn't a concern to me since I have a Dynamic. He also had another set of
'65 manuals for $65 but they looked almost brand new. I saw another vendor
with these books for $35 and they were in a lot worse condition. Another
had just the Chassis book in a little better condition for $30.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:51:26 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: 455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI

> Typically an MSD
> ignition
> will improve power to 3000 rpm, above that i'm told the effect is less
> beneficial.
> Mark Berube
> 67' 442
> Loganville, GA.

I've read that the MSDs are less beneficial above 3k rpm because they don't
provide multiple spark above that rpm. They switch back to a single spark.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:45:55 -0400
From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Subject: Lansing Parade Burnouts

The best burnout was done by the 72 H/O pace car with Linda Vaughn in the
back seat...WOW!!!!!!!

Mike
66 442
70 442
70 442 W30
71 442 convt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:57:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lansing

they (the police) LOVED my burnout with Linda Vaughn (guess she had something
to do with their approval!)  DID ANYONE GET A GOOD VIDEO OF THIS???  Since I
was driving, I missed getting any action shots of my 72 H//O in the parade!
 Please email me directly to save bandwidth, I'll pay for your trouble if you
got me some good shots!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:08:00 EDT
From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Subject: (Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow

For anyone in the St. Louis or Mid-West area:

BRING YOUR OLDSMOBILE....

The next REAL big show that you don't want to miss is the 14th Annual
All-Oldsmobile Funshow.  This year, of course, we are celebrating
Oldsmobile's 100th anniversary.  My wife and I are organizing Archway
Oldsmobile's Annual Funshow this year.  It is a car show/swap meet that is
open to the public and will be held on Sept 7, 1997.   This is a successful
and growing event, and we anticipate the largest one ever for this year.  It
is held at "The Heart of St. Charles Banquet center" parking lot, which is
right next to Highway 70 (30 feet from the highway) and fully visible to
thousands of people driving by on HWY 70.  It is also conveniently located
next to Historic downtown St. Charles Riverfront Landing, and right next
door to the Station Casino-St. Charles (Also one of our proud sponsors).  We
had a good showing last year of old to new Olds.  A total of well over 100
cars were on display.  Some of the highlights were a 1968 H/O, two 1970
W30s, 1983 H/O 15th Anniversary model, 1972 Indy Pace car (all original, and
never restored), 1955 olds, 1949 Olds and a great assortment of 442s and
Cutlasses.  Many trophies were awarded, the '68 H/O took one.

This year we anticipate the largest turnout ever.

We are trying to get as much representation from Oldsmobiles 100 years as
possible, and expect to see representation from the 30's through the 90's.
 I will be providing the Oldies music (I used to work for Jukebox 96 FM here
in St. Louis doing an oldies show, and have been doing mobile DJing since
1982).  You can expect to see a performance by "Jake and Elwood's Rock and
Roll, Rhythm and Blues Review" some time around noon or 1:00pm.   Also, food
and beverages will be available.

Here is the information: (you can see a similar ad in Cars & Parts magazine)


Sept. 7, 1997, 8am-5pm - St. Charles MO - Archway Oldmobile Funshow.  Car
Show/swap meet that is open to the public, and held by The Archway
Oldsmobile Club of St. Louis from 8am to 5pm.  Have a unique or classic
Olds?  Come show it!  It is held at "The Heart of St. Charles Banquet
center" parking lot right at HWY 70 and 5th street.  Prizes, and trophies
given away in 16 categories.  Oldies music, also featuring Blues Brothers
performance, arriving in '74 Dodge Monaco Bluesmobile replica.  For more
information call John Palmberger (314)-355-4864

We are welcoming any and all Oldsmobiles to participate.  Your car does not
have to be show quality to show it.  By doing this, we should have a great
representation of all of Oldsmobiles different models, makes and years.  You
don't have to enter your Olds in the competition to show it.  but, if you
wish to compete in one of the 16 categories, the entry fee is only $10.00.

Please let me know if you need more specific directions, and I will be glad
to provide them.  If you would like information about lodgings, I will be
more than happy to provide it.  It actually is being held in a huge parking
lot that is shared by the St. Charles Inn, and across the street is a Ramada
(the Ramada that has a huge Noahs Ark in front of it ).

ps.  I will have the '68 Cutlass Supreme there, and the '69 4-4-2.
  .
/ | \
| | |
|/|\|
\ | /
Jeff Zeilmann
1605 Elizabeth Ellen Ct.
St. Peters, MO 63376-6542

Home Phone ª: (314) 939-4613
Daytime ª: (314) 891-7915
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible (and the NEW '69 4-4-2)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mattaleo@aol.com
Subject: Re: Deltas

Hey, how ya doin'? My name is Billy ('74 Delta '88 convertible) , I was
wondering if you have any info on manuals for my vehicle, I'm just beginning
to restore it...Thanx ahead of time...Billy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:25:30 -0400
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Deltas

At 11:07 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, how ya doin'? My name is Billy ('74 Delta '88 convertible) , I was
>wondering if you have any info on manuals for my vehicle, I'm just beginning
>to restore it...Thanx ahead of time...Billy

Contact any of the literature vendors who advertise in Hemmings to get the
factory service manuals for your car.  For '75 there are two manuals, one a
chassis manual specific to Oldsmobiles, and one a body manual applicable to
all GM cars of that year.  I don't know if the same was true for '74, but I
think it was.  There were literature dealers coming out the wazoo at the
recent Olds thing in Lansing.

Dan

**************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
**************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:30:15 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: RE: Build Sheets

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu> wrote:

>  . . . So that's it.  You guys who are planning to restore a 1997 Cutlass
25 years from now, don't
> expect to find a build sheet.

**************************
However, all of the GM cars built 1986 or later (or thereabouts) which I've
looked at has had a tag originally inside the decklid, which lists all of
the trim, drive train, suspension, and option codes.  This should be the
same information which would be on the "recycled at the factory" build
sheet.  The problem of course, would be if your car had had the decklid
replaced without moving that original tag over, or if the tag has been
painted over.  I always suspected that my 1987 LeSabre T-Type had had the
decklid replaced because although the information on the tag matched the
equipment on the car, it wasn't stuck onto the inside of the decklid very
well.  This led me to believe that the tag had been peeled off the original
lid, and stuck onto the replacement one.  A body repair done at a GM
dealership would probably include transferring this tag, since their
service department people will occasionally refer to it when looking for a
particular service procedure, or for making sure they order the correct
replacement parts.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America ª3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geo679@aol.com
Subject: 403 or  455

i'm  looking for either motor, as complete as possible, for rebuilding. Not
looking to spent alot of money. Anyone who can help, e-mail me at
Geo679@aol.com. Thank you

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: RE: Build Sheets

> 2) If there are no build sheets produced now, there will be none
> to be missed. (I've always suspected that the equipment code list
> sticker plastered in the trunk was the permanent successor to the
> build sheet.) There will always be _some_ kind of obscure stationery

This is more likely the case.  At the Arlington plant, which used to
exclusively produce the RWD B/D cars, the build sheets were removed at the
end of assembly.  Apparently, they were retained for 6 months post
production, then destroyed.  However, a trim build sheet is usually
present under the front passenger seat.

Due to the recent proliferation of option packages, the number of build
combinations is vastly reduced.  As Andy alluded to, we'll have to look up
the Service Parts Identification Label in the trunk, and correlate an RPO
(Regular Production Option) code such as package "1SD" with dealer or
sales literature to determine which options are correct.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:54:17 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: Lansing

Tell us more about Linda.... and how you were selected to drive her
around. I love these stories.


Bobby
70 442 Escape Back to the ....Past   With Linda :-)

- -----Original Message-----
From:Hiflyr442@aol.com [SMTP:Hiflyr442@aol.com]
Sent:Tuesday, August 26, 1997 10:57 AM
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:Re: Lansing

they (the police) LOVED my burnout with Linda Vaughn (guess she had
something
to do with their approval!)  DID ANYONE GET A GOOD VIDEO OF THIS???
 Since I
was driving, I missed getting any action shots of my 72 H//O in the
parade!
 Please email me directly to save bandwidth, I'll pay for your trouble
if you
got me some good shots!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:59:40 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Build Sheets

> However, all of the GM cars built 1986 or later (or thereabouts) which I've
> looked at has had a tag originally inside the decklid, which lists all of
> the trim, drive train, suspension, and option codes.  This should be the
> same information which would be on the "recycled at the factory" build
> sheet.

Tom makes a good point.  After I bought my 85 442, I did find the
skeleton "build sheet" per se under the front passenger sheet.  Had the
VIN, and a few option codes, a "**" for wheel paint, and listed tire
size and "Salon 442" on it.  The decklid sticker has every bit of
option/equipment code information you can use just like a build sheeet.
I called Arlington, the origin, and the line manager told me that SOME
came with small metal cowl tags under the hood that listed a few
important items, and SOME didn't. (Talking to him is also how I found
out they only made 3,000 442s in 85, with white being very rare!)  If
they happened to have a cowl tag, that's cool, and if not, well,
obviously....mine did not.  He said the decklid sticker was indeed the
official replacement for the build sheets found in the car as we know
it.  There WAS copies of line sheets, in various forms,  that was taped
to the hood, doors and trunklid and inside that listed all the
information for the workers to put the car together with though. He said
this USUALLY didn't end up in the car, they were collected and tossed
when the car was accounted for out the door.  This is what I believe I
found under the seat.  The line manager went on to tell me that
paperwork for an individual car was kept until the next model year, and
the stuff was just thrown in the trash!!

So, don't dispair if you own a newer vehicle and can't find the build
sheet.  That decklid/rear hatch decal has the VIN and all the pertinent
information on it you need to verify options on cars.  I can decode most
of the codes, but that "W42" under the trunk is probably the most
important one to me.

2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:11:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Looking for 100th flag !

On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Bill Gochenour wrote:
> One bad memory of the 100th celebration.......some nice spectator or I
> hate to think fellow Olds owner, thought we wouldn't mind loosing the
> flag given us for the motorcade. Needless to say so far I've been unable
> to replace it. So if anyone who attended the 100th. was lucky enough to
> get more than one, and is willing to part with it for a good cause, let
> me know.

Bill, that is really a crummy thing to have happen. I was looking for one
myself but what happened to yours is pretty low... anyhow, if anyone has
a supply of the following items that might be for sale, let me know:

1. the motorcade flag
2. the volunteer Centennial logo t-shirt
3. the lamppost banner

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:13:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:Geo679@aol.com
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 403 or  455

i'm  looking for either motor, as complete as possible, for rebuilding. Not
looking to spent alot of money. Anyone who can help, e-mail me at
Geo679@aol.com. Thank you

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:18:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu>
Subject: I'm BAAACK (from both Lansing and summer vacation)

Hello all,

Just got back from Lansing yesterday and today I went back to college (so
I have full e-mail access again).  I rode up to the big "1-0-0" with Greg
Pruett.  It was great finally placing faces with the names.  I met Sparky
and his father, Bryceman, Chris Witt, The Ludlams (sp?), Peg O'Connor,
David Brown, Karl Aune, 'Drew Senko, and too many others for me to
remember while I'm also trying to remember a new class schedule :-).  I
took 8 rolls of film (no, I haven't paid for the developing yet ;-) and I
will be working with Bryceman to put sort of a scrapbook/webpage up on his
site so that those of you who couldn't attend can see a little bit of what
we who did attend saw.  A couple of things that struck me... looking down
a row of about 10 '56 Olds 88's, all with the same front end color (must
have been how things looked at the factory in '56); a dozen or more Curved
Dashes doing circles around me and a crowd of people; half a dozen plus
'66 Toros (and a few 67's 69's and 70's as well I'm not sure if there were
any 68's or not); a row of about 2 dozen '84 (? the year they were black)
H/O's all in a row (actually two rows).  I took pictures of all of this
and more, hopefully they will all come out.  I read the post about the '72
H/O that someone wanted a video of burning the tires... I must have missed
that, for some reason or other, only the G bodies seemed to be feeling
particularly froggy with the tires when I was around (although Chris Witt
did his darndest to get the tires spinning with an semi-running '66 Toro
and a slick patch of pavement).  There was an '85 or '86 442 that left a
nice black streak during the main parade (only one streak... weren't those
cars posi?...) one of the motorcyle cops on the parade route flipped on
his blue lights and shrugged at the crowd who promtly booed him... he
waved the guy in the 442 on :-).

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455

In a message dated 97-08-26 12:17:53 EDT, you write:

<<
 i'm  looking for either motor, as complete as possible, for rebuilding. Not
 looking to spent alot of money. Anyone who can help, e-mail me at
 Geo679@aol.com. Thank you

  >>
I've got a .060 in. overbored 350 "project" motor for sale, just posted about
it last night.  You set on having the 403, or 455?  How much you looking to
spend?

Chris Ruper
Rockton, IL.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:30:58 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Lansing stories

I knew it!  And I predicted it!  I am green with envy with all these
cool Lansng events I missed out on!  Seriously, I'm glad MOST everyone
had a spectacular time, save for the loss of the parade flag story.  I'm
glad everyone is sharing their stories, it is almost like I was there.
Hopefully, fingers crossed, I will be able to make the '98 Nats.  I also
see there is a St. Louis show coming up, but I'll be darned if I can't
make that one either. (Both close to my parents' home.)

Anyway, keep the stories, (and pics) coming!  Love 'em!

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:02:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: senko@reston.ans.net (Andrew A. Senko)
Subject: Re: Back from the road trip

> I also managed to sustain a ticket about 10 miles before I got out of
> Virginia on the way up.  I was pulled over for expired tags...
> I explained to him that they were vintage
> tags that I bought at the flea market and had re-issued at the DMV, and that
> they were in fact current plates with renewal stickers on them. (Well,
> DUHHH!)  He took my license and registration, walked to the back of the car
> and got a good look at the plate, then returned to his car and sat for about
> 20 minutes...
> And so, he returned to my
> car with a ticket for running clear license plate covers.  Evidently any
> type of license plate cover is illegal in VA.  Equipment violation, $30
> fine, no points on my record...


Greg,

This bit about clear license plate covers is news to me.  You're not going
to be happy with my story.  I got pulled over about a week before Lansing
in Vienna VA.  The cop said I pulled a "California Stop" at a stopsign, but
he was really checking me for drunk driving.  I have vintage plates on my
car also, and they are covered with protective clear plastic covers.  I
gave him my registration which has the current stickers still stapled to
it.  I explained that I have old plates and that there really isn't a good
place to mount the stickers.  He didn't understand what I was saying, so he
did the same thing your officer did:  he went back and took a close look at
my plates.  He didn't know what the ruling was on this, but said I should
check with the DMV.  He made no mention of the clear covers over the
plates.  Then...

"Have you been drinking?".  I held up the bottle of wine that was sitting
on the front seat:  "Nope.  I'm on my way to a friend's house... we haven't
started yet." It worked.  He let me go.  It all comes down to the officer.
It also helps if you don't provoke the officer or show them any attitude.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I heard a lot of talk about Michigan roads, but I didn't think they were
too bad.  I will make one observation:  within the last year I have
replaced shocks and coil springs on all four wheels, and had installed the
complete PST super front end kit (with rubber parts, not polyurethane) about
a month ago.  So my suspension is really new.  Perhaps part of the problem
other people have had is their suspension?  My car was riding like a champ
up to 80 or 90 MPH.  In fact, on Route 70 in Maryland, a few brief jaunts
up to 100 MPH felt really good!

- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)               http://members.aol.com/drewinva
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 1997 09:54:16 -0700
From: "Mike Gardner" <Mike_Gardner@latgqmg.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88s II

                      RE>delta 88s II                              8/26/97

Add me.  Mike Gardner: 70 (Delta 88 convertable; 455)

- --------------------------------------
Date: 8/9/97 9:16 PM
To: Mike Gardner
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca%INTE
hi all,

Here we go. Time for the update of the 88 owners:

-John Pajak: 65
-Laura D. Steinke: 66 (Pook the ghost)
-Walter ?: 66
-Tom Adams: 66
-Raul Martinez: 66
-Lisa Malden: 67
-Paul Fikaris: 69
-Graham Stewart: 69 (2)
-myself: 73
-Dan Gulino: 75
-John Shelp: 77
-Mike Jones: 78
-Greg Beaulieu: 78
-David Brown: 79 (?)
-S.Dave Ward: 78 & 85
-Igor Todorovic: 81
-Chris Sparks: 82
-Steve ?: 85
-Michael R. Hall: 91

Hey, if we continue the list is gonna be longer than the one of the people
going to Lansing!!
88 owners are so quiet...Why is it so? Why is it that the majority of the
posts is about 442, Cutlasses and Toronado?
Is it because there are not so many modifications to be made on 88 engines?
Or owners not really interested in making them?
Different worlds? Muscle cars and pappy's cars? Maybe.
Or they're still in better condition, don't break so often and don't need
any repairs?? (just joking)

But it doesn't matter. WE love our 88s!
And I think Laura really has a ghost car. When I drive my car, people
around DEFINITELY see me. Just try to back up in a parking lot and the next
car waiting for  my empty space will show so much respect by stopping SOOOO
FAR away!!!

How many more to be added on the list?

Alain Lachatre

P.S.: Wish I had all the money for everything I want to do on my car. Send
your donations to ...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:30:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: senko@reston.ans.net (Andrew A. Senko)
Subject: Late bargains at the Car Corral?

Greetings all!

Peg O'Connor and I decided to stop by the Car Corral after 8pm on Saturday
night to see if there were any big bargains to be had.  There were fewer
than a dozen cars left.

One had a sign that said something like "I will be driving this car or
flying to California on Sunday".  I guess he was trying to vouch for it's
roadworthiness and dependability.  I don't remember what car it was.

There was a '58 (something) with the J-2 option for sale.

There was a car that was something like a 1984 Delta 88 on a trailer.
Supposedly it was the last V8 or last rear-wheel drive or last something of
these cars, and it only had like 4000 miles on it.

One guy had a white 71 442 coupe that we looked over, but there's one car
that just sticks out in my mind...

Peg looked at the card in the windshield for the price, which she then
asked me to guess.  The car was obviously a 70 442 (not W-30) coupe, in some
state of restoration.  It was missing parts here and there... the piece
between the front grilles... part(s) of the shifter...

Peg: Guess how much?
Me:  $4000?
Peg: Higher.
Me:  $5000?
Peg: Higher.  (Note a common theme here.)
Me:  $8000?
Peg: Higher.
Me:  $10000?
Peg: Higher.
Me:  $12000?
Peg: Higher.

At this point, I already felt that I was guessing too high.  So I looked at
the card in the window.  $25000!!!  The card says that this is near the end
of a frame-off restoration, which the owner will complete for you.
But wait, there's more.  The card also says "350 with C heads".  No
kidding!  I've always heard how good those C heads are.  Imagine if this
guy had access to a 307 or a 260!  ;-)

We agreed it was ridiculous.  I wanted to pop the hood and look at what was
there,  but I was afraid that it would fall off as I opened it, and then
I'd get roped into buying the car.  I don't think the owner was around, but
I still decided to leave it alone.  I remember seeing some chromed front
suspension parts... like the coil springs.  Maybe he chromed a lot more
than I knew.

Somebody ended up asking me the price for my car.  I said "it's not for
sale, I'm just here to make ridiculous offers on other cars."  The owner of
the 71 442 heard this and said "You didn't make me a ridiculous offer".  I
said "$2000".  He laughed and walked away.  I think his asking price was
$6000.

Peg said I should have said my car was for sale for $25000, since that
seemed to be a popular number in the lot at the time.  And I got to
thinking about it... if someone would pay that amount, I could have bought
the 442 for around $6000 to drive home in, and still had $19000 to buy
another convertible.
What a plan!  Now where can I find a person that will pay $25000 for a 71
Cutlass Supreme convertible, with 350, TH-350, duals, and a 2.56 open rear
end?  If you know of this person, please feel free to forward my e-mail
address to them.  ;-)
Actually, I met them last night... but then I woke up.

- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)               http://members.aol.com/drewinva
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:30:10 -0400
From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Subject: Lansing stories

I know Mike Rothe will hate this story.  One of the 69 H/O convertibles was
in the show.  It had to be real.  The protecto plate said the 1st owner was
Hurst performance products.  I never thought I would see one.  The 68 H/O
number 001, 4 speed car was there also, still owned by Demmer.  If I still had
my H/O I would have had to drive over and took a picture in front of the
Demmer Engineering building.  What a great week!!

Mike
66 442
70 442
70 442 W30
71 442 Convt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:40:34 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: Lansing Memories

I almost forgot to mention/brag, on Friday I spoke with Dennis Gage from
My Classic Car Video Magazine.  I thanked him for the autographed MCC
license plate I had recieved earlier in the year.  I have won three
plates playing their trivia game on-line.  The third one came with a
note and an autograph on the plate from Dennis while the first two were
normal.  He said to look for the Lansing event to be featured in
February.  Set those VCRs.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:53:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: jkpkobin@discover-net.net (Jeff & Patti Kobinsky)
Subject: List guy's not so bad after all......

About a year ago I stumbled across a web page for Oldsmobiles that I found
quite informatative at 442.com.

Still having my first Olds from about 20 years ago, and buying three more to
fill garage & driveway I had a definite interest in what the "page" had to
offer.

I found many usefull links, stories & inspiration, and also a link to this 
list.

You won't see my name every day - but I do read all the mail every day and
have quite a folder of names and addresses, tips etc from the last year or so.

The "list" informed me of the Lansing event, and I was lucky to convince my
wife to take her vacation time to travel to the event with me.

A little late to the Holiday Inn, but we were still able to meet some of the
guy's (and girls) from the list that turned out to be just as great as they
all sounded on  the list.

I even had the opportunity to actually touch one of the fine 442 machines at
the Holiday Inn, even if it was only to push start it....

With all the "look but don't touch" signs  - this would be my only
opportunity for a "olds" hands on experience at this event.

I was lucky to meet one other individule from the list that was staying at
our hotel that ended up giving us a ride to the parade when we missed the
last shuttle bus.

We were lucky enough to be able to sit down with this guy and share a
beverage and some Oldsmobile stories later in the lounge.

The whole experience gave me, and my wife the "spark" to get to work on the
Oldsmobile's and maybe some day have something nice enough to show the rest
of you.

I hope the excitement of the list continues now that the Lansing event is
over, and that someday we get to meet the rest of you.

Oh, and to the guy that got us started on this adventure, (took us to the
parade when we missed the shuttle) shared a beverage and some great stories
- - THANX BRYCEMAN - it would'nt have happened without you!

Jeff & Patti

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:21:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Add Me

Our first address problem with the closed list... forwarding.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:26 Aug 1997 09:54:16 -0700
From:"Mike Gardner" <Mike_Gardner@latgqmg.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88s II

Add me.  Mike Gardner: 70 (Delta 88 convertable; 455)

- --------------------------------------
Date: 8/9/97 9:16 PM

Here we go. Time for the update of the 88 owners:

-John Pajak: 65
-Laura D. Steinke: 66 (Pook the ghost)
-Walter ?: 66
-Tom Adams: 66
-Raul Martinez: 66
-Lisa Malden: 67
-Paul Fikaris: 69
-Graham Stewart: 69 (2)
-myself: 73
-Dan Gulino: 75
-John Shelp: 77
-Mike Jones: 78
-Greg Beaulieu: 78
-David Brown: 79 (?)
-S.Dave Ward: 78 & 85
-Igor Todorovic: 81
-Chris Sparks: 82
-Steve ?: 85
-Michael R. Hall: 91

Alain Lachatre

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:29:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?

On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> There was a car that was something like a 1984 Delta 88 on a trailer.
> Supposedly it was the last V8 or last rear-wheel drive or last something of
> these cars, and it only had like 4000 miles on it.

You think your 4-4-2 story was bad... the car you're referring to was a
1979 98 Regency. It was on a trailer, and it did have something like 4K
miles on it. We spotted it and the lady standing next to it answered our
questions like she was equipped with a tape machine or something:  "Only
4,xxx miles... my son had it double undercoated... everything is like the
day it was built..." (well, maybe, if the factory put on bent wheel
opening moldings on the right rear...) "we're asking $24,xxx... the
absolute minimum we'd take is $21,xxx...". She made it sound like she had
been asked about it a thousand times already. Heck, maybe she had.

I felt like telling her that to a collector, the double undercoating would
reduce the value of the car by about $15K... ;-)  A nice car, don't get
me wrong, but outrageously overpriced.

I was disappointed in the car corral. There were a few reasonable buys
there but most of them were way overpriced.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:22:11 -0500
From: hitson@leadbelt.com
Subject: Pertronix ignition question

Some here have, in the past, recommended Pertronix ignition as a way of
keeping original looking distributor while gaining "electronic ignition"
performance advantages.

Can I assume that with making such a conversion one can ditch the resistor 
wire?

TIA

roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:47:43 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Olds extravaganza

> I wonder if Muscle Car Magazine or Hot Rod TV will cover the event. Hot
> Rod TV last weekend feature the Woodward Dream Cruise. If so we won't
> see it for a while.
>
> Fernando Proietto
> Systems Analyst - Informatics
I saw a writer for Car and Driver on thursday. Laurie saw a guy with a lot
of camera equipment wearing a Motor trend shirt. All we can do is hope. Saw
Willard Scott this morning in a '70 442 conv. doing his birthday/weather
report.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:56:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: HEI

as far as i know about rear wheel drive oldsmobiles there are only 2 kinds a
TH 350 and a TH 400.  you can tell the difference by looking at the pan.  if
you give me a general discription of the trans pan i can tell you which one
it is.

mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 13:39:26 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: Oldsmobile Centennial Club - NEW OCA CHAPTER !!!

Something else that came out of the OCA board meeting was dealing w/
chapter business.

There is a new OCA chapter on the block - The Oldsmobile Centennial Club
We recieved approval 8/21/97 on Oldsmobile's birthday.  Here is some quick
info on us.

- -----------------------------------------------------
OCC Monthly Meeting - Second Tuesday of Each Month
Location: ERNIE SWANSON OLDSMOBILE 410 N. CRAIN HIGHWAY, GLEN BURNIE, MD
Phone: (410) 768-8800 Fax: (410) 768-1948

All we ask is that you NOT park in front of the dealership as they will be
open. Please park to the right of the showroom, down in front of the
service bays, there is plenty of room.  We have a meeting room in the back
and to the left in the showroom building.  Someone will be in the showroom
to show you where the meeting is. We shouldn't run past 8:30PM. If you know
of anyone else who might be interested, and not on the newsgroup, please
pass the word along and or bring them with ya.  There are 35 current
members in the club.  There is a wide variety of Oldsmobiles represented,
add yours to the list.  We will be finalizing items for the upcoming Cruise
Nite, stuffing goodie bags, discuss other local events, and whatever else
comes up.  Anyone interested in joining, or know of someone who might be
interested, drop me some e-mail.  I have directions to the meeting.  If you
plan on coming, please e-mail me so we have a head count for refreshments.
There will be a deli tray or pizza for anyone who misses dinner at their
house.


Saturday September 13, 1997
- ---------------------------
1st ANNUAL OLDSMOBILE CENTENNIAL CLUB CRUISE NITE.
Hosted by the Oldsmobile Centennial Club (OCA Chapter). At The Big M
Restaurant/Drive-In Theater, P.O. Box 111, Rt. 22, Churchville, MD (Between
Bel Air & Aberdeen, MD. 5 miles west of I-95) All years and condition
Oldsmobiles welcome, daily drivers to show trailer queens. Free goodie bag
to first 50 Oldsmobile through the gate. Open to the public. Other vehicles
welcome to cruise on in. Music, fun and games, 50/50 drawing.
Info:
Brad Nicholson @ (410) 256-0381   e-mail: brad442@erols.com
Club Web Link at http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
The Big M @ (410) 734-4370.



Other OCA Chapter News
======================
The Cleveland Chapter had a tentative charter approved last year in Atlanta
pending completion of it's paperwork.  They didn't finish it and it's
tentative charter was revoked.

The Arizona Chapter hasn't been in compliance for a long time w/ it's OCA
membership and their charter was also revoked
- -----------------------------------------------

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - Chapter of OCA
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov   (H) brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442
OCC Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/occ
OCA Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:02:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: DATIC@aol.com
Subject: Oldsmobiles in my life...(longish)

Greetings to all,
     First of all, I must confess that I am not a rabid Olds fan. The reason
that I am
currently on the list is because after several years of looking for a neat
50s-60s
American car (pref. a conv.) to restore, on Mar 28th I bought a '66 Dynamic
88 conv.
and I needed assistance. I must say that I have found a ton of h*lp, both
directly and
indirectly, being told where to find what I need. My only concern (very
minor) is that I wish that there was more "big car" stuff floating around.
     After reading some of the personal histories of some of the members, I
began to think of all of the Olds' that I have had experiences with. My first
semi-direct contact
was when my brother and his wife bought a second car ('round 82). From a
couple they knew quite well, they bought a '67 Cutlass 2 dr. Light yellow
(Saffron?) black
buckets, V8,4bbl, 4 speed. Am I correct in remembering a C/S badge on the
C-pillar? My brother fondly called it his 441(single exhaust).Gorgeous car,
quite quick also.
     A couple of years later, I wanted a "winter beater" (please forgive the
sobriquat)
and I found a '70 Toro. The body was on the way out(this was upstate N.Y.,
salt road
capitol of the U.S.) but it ran very well. Paid $400 for it.Drove it thru the
winter. Sold it in spring for $500 to somebody who wanted the drivetrain.
     Actually, I just realized that in third or fourth grade (catholic
school), Father Detloff bought a gold 442. This would be '68-'69. I get just
vague impressions that it had a black vinyl top, or maybe black stripes.
However, I do distinctly remember the exhaust note, and it was... well,
sacreligious.;-)
     But the experience that impressed me the most was when my friend and I
managed to schmooze out way into the Road and Track Manufacturers Challange
at
Lime Rock Park raceway in Conn in 1986. This is when Olds was about to
introduce
the Quad 4 engine. A bunch of car makers were there: The B*wtie people were
there
with a twin turbo C*rvette(?),Ponti@c had a Herb Adams massaged T/A,F*rd a
new
Mu$tang GT (the one that was introduced in '87) S@@b, a 9000 turbo, VW a
hotrodded GTI 16v. And then there was Oldsmobile. They had some concept cars
there, including a Calais that had an "aerodeck" style rear window, and a 98
with a turbocharged Quad 4 in it. The race was run like bracket racing, where
a car ran a number of laps to "dial in" a lap time, then to start the race,
the slowest car started
first, then the next slowest, so at the end of the race, they should
theoretically all
cross the finish line at the same time. I can't remember who won, or where
the Calais
finished, but that was incidental compared to what they did next. They had a
couple of " grudge matches" pairing the 9000 with the T/A, and the Calais
with the....
Must@ng GT! I can't remember when I had a better time, or when I had screamed
more at a race. I'm sorry to say the Calais didn't beat the GT, but it was
NEVER more than 3 car lengths behind on the end of the front straight, and
they would literally be side by side thru some of the corners. And by the
way, the Olds was being driven by Irv Hoerr, who has road raced Oldsmobiles
for what seems like decades in SCCA and what used to be IMSA. People were
screaming for him to nerf the GT off into the weeds. It was great watching
this "little 4 banger" hound that V8. So every time somebody laments that the
new 4 cyl. cars are slow, I think back to that race and think"I tend to
disagree".

     Thanks for the bandwidth, and welcome back to the faithful who ventured
to Lansing.

     Dave T.
     1966 Dynamic 88 conv. White w/blue int. Making its maiden run this Labor
Day
     ( After 5 months laboring on it!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:06:45 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: 455 Heat Stoves

Thanks John!

RC

On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>The Delta 88 will have the same heat stove (and exhaust manifolds) as
>a 442 if its a 455 dual exhaust model (like my 72).  Deltas with
>single exhaust and all 98s have the "other" exhaust manifolds which
>are just like the 350 manifolds. The heat stoves are different.
>
>
>===
>John Pajak                       Information Spectrum Inc.
>Network Installation Team
>Naval Air Station, Patuxent River, Maryland
>
>JSPajak@rocketmail.com
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: DBL scoop air cleaner

Hi, OldsFolks

I've been watching the thread on the double scoop air cleaners, since I
posted the vague description of mine.  There were a couple of references
to what kind of air cleaner my son's car really has.  I didn't have any
additional info to add, until I opened the hood today to take a photo.

The air cleaner is red with a chrome cover.  The photo can be seen at
"http://www.berkshire.net/~sugarman/airclenr.jpg" (I apologize for the
mess.  The car is a daily driver, except for the winter, and not restored,
but looks good and is in pretty good running condition.)

Regards,
Don
'69 442 - http://www.berkshire.net/~sugarman/69olds01.jpg

sugarman@berkshire.net
FAX 413-443-7395

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:50:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lansing (loooong!)

In response to multiple requests, here's the story on my participation in the
parade, and the selection of Linda Vaughn to ride in my car (the one you are
all gonna send me videos of doing those burnouts :-)  )  I simply wrote a
letter to Bob Jarboe with a copy to Jon Wessel (prez of the H/OCA) describing
my car, it's historical significance, and my knowledge of Linda's fondness
for 72 H/Os (she rode in one identical to mine at the race with James
Garner).  Judy Badgley was on the committee that assigned parade cars to
celebrities, and with her assistence, it was a go.  I have met Linda several
times before, and once drove my other 72 H/O convertible to Indy for the US
Nationals (Labor Day weekend, 1994?) for her to ride in for the parade.  That
parade was rained out, and she always felt bad I'd driven 300 miles to watch
it rain (almost like Lansing 97!).  Anyway, she was the perfect guest all
day, from her arrival and posing for thousands of cameras, signing hundreds
of autographs, and working the crowd in the parade.  In fact, it was her that
suggested the 'smokies' in front of the review stand, which we repeated
several times to the crowd's delight.  After the parade, the four of us
(including my fiancee and Jon Wessel) had lunch together at the Radisson, and
had a great time hearing war stories about Linda, Jim Garner, Doc Watson,
Jack Duffy, Dan Gurney, etc.  In  the ultimate gesture of appreciation, Linda
then gave me her necklace and H/O emblem that was made for her in 72, and
which she wore at the race that year and in the parade here among other
places.  I have seen photos of her with that necklace in magazine articles
several times, and have never seen another one like it!  All in all, it was
an awesome experience, after which I had her sign the right front fender of
my car.  My 72 H/O had always been special to me, with only 29,000 original
miles and all it's original "stuff"- but now it's a legend!  Alas, I am in
the process of selling it, but I'll always have many happy memories, and a
great video of Linda in my rear view mirror!
Fred Brussee
(314) 532-7576

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:56:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geo679@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455

how much for the 350, and how much can u get a 403 or 455 for, the less the
better. I'm mainly interested in rebuilding a motor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:03:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?

In addition to the $21K '79 98, and the $25K semi-restored 4-4-2 with the
350, there were a few interesting cars in the corral:

A really nice '70 or '71 4-4-2, green, looked totally restored, owner was
offered $17K Cdn. Turned it down I understand.

A '59 88 4-dr hardtop, looked very well preserved, sold for $4500

A '50 88 Holiday, red, gorgeous, needed very little, offered at $15K,
don't know if it sold.

A very nice '68 Cutlass convertible, burgundy, needed some things but
very presentable, I think it was $8500.

A VC, I think 70 to 72, rough, asking $2500, no bargain.

A '78 Toro, huge, beautiful, blue, stored for years, something like 18K
miles, $12,000.

Finally, the "prototype" '77 Hurst/Olds was there. Owner was asking
$17,500. It looked like a hack job, lettering looked like art store
Letraset, grille was concrete reinforcing mesh, etc., but he claimed
that's because it was a prototype. I think he'll have a hard time getting
anything near that figure. The car was everywhere I went last week with
for sale signs on it.

Don't think any of thee were bargains, but they're the ones I remember.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:29:49 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Re-send

 Sparky,

Thank you so much.  Those views of everything were just great.  It is hard
to believe that you had the strength to do this after a couple of weeks of
intense preparation & the actual Lansing event.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>Greg Kalkhoff wrote:
>
>> http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
>
>Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Chris Sparks
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:37:02 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: People gone.

 Laundry?  I live in the South & we don't get dirty.  There are servants for
that.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama



>
>If you don't have a wife who does your laundry? Your mom?
>
>
>Daren
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:44:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: 403 or 455

i own a 403 that i am willing to sell and i was thinking around $375.  it is
a complete motor and it runs.  where are you located?  is it possible to send
an engine through the mail?  i am currently rebuilding the 350 (not for sale)
to replace the 403.  i think that the 350 is a faster engine compared to the
403 and only 5 HP difference.  with some aftermarket parts i will have 5+ HP
without the weight of the bigger motor.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:51:13 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Re-send-Centennial Scrapbook

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
>
>  Sparky,
>
> Thank you so much.  Those views of everything were just great.  It is hard
> to believe that you had the strength to do this after a couple of weeks of
> intense preparation & the actual Lansing event.

Bill,

You and everyone are very welcome. Tonight, if Rob Fetherston comes over, I 
will
have another 200 pictures to choose from. Then I plan to have as many pictures
in html format as possible so I can add captions to identify who the pictures
are of.

If anyone has any particularly nice or interesting pictures, please feel free 
to
send them to me privately and I will find a place to put it on the site.

Again, if anyone is interested, just go to the Toro FAQ (URL in signature line)
and click on Centennial Scrapbook. It is in the left column and flashing in the
menu.

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:12:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Mid 70's Vintage Toronado's] (fwd)

From Doug Kitchener...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:54:38 -0400
From: Douglas Kitchener <dk0009@epfl2.epflbalto.org>
To: ab348@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Mid 70's Vintage Toronado's]

Hey Greg-

Great meeting you!  I'm really glad we were able to pull off the get-together,
rain notwithstanding!

In order to retain my hard-won status as winner of the "Most Posts To The List
By A Non-Member" Award, I hereby submit the following.  :)  Please hang this
whole thing out there for me; will be back soon with writeups on some of the
Lansing activities!

Fer all you do, this one's for you!

Best regards,

Doug

> I'm looking for any information on the XSR that had the wraparound
> backlight. I recall seeing one with power t-tops and would be interested
> in purchasing one if the condition & price are ok.

Paul Hartlieb forwarded this to me during preparations for the Lansing trip;
haven't had a chance to do anything with it 'til now!

The car you're talking about is actually the Toronado XS which was built in '77
and '78 only.  Production models had a power "AstroRoof" or silver sunroof;
there was only one prototype which got the power t-tops.  See the story of that
on the Toronado FAQ page, www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm

Click on "Second Generation" and "Toronado XSR".  I was involved in the
restoration of this car, get in touch directly if any questions, as I'm not on
the list!

Regards,

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

PS, Production of XSRs both years was around 2500 total, I think.  At least
three have been totalled and junked.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 May 97 17:27:02 EST
From: 64242860@08914.com
Subject: Live Sex..NO VIDEO DELAY..Like TV!|

Live Interactive Video Sex.

Wouldn't you like to see a Live Girl on
your computer Screen??? Now the girl can see you as well - Featuring Two
way video. This video service is not like others. There is no video
delay, and the screen is crystal clear and big, just like a T.V. You can
also talk to her on a voice line as you are watching her do it all just
for you. Our Live video is so good that we are giving you 5 Free min. to
show you that we are the best.
Hurry up and visit our website at

http://207.30.236.66/livesex.htm

Me and my friends are desperatley waiting for you and will do anything
you want us to.

Love Savanah,
XOXOXO

P.S. If you have a quick cam don't forget to plug it in. Me and my
friends will love to see you as well!!!!

http://207.30.236.66/livesex.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 20:34:55 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@orbital.com>
Subject: 403 vs 350

i own a 403 that i am willing to sell and i was thinking around $375.  it is
a complete motor and it runs.  where are you located?  is it possible to send
an engine through the mail?  i am currently rebuilding the 350 (not for sale)
to replace the 403.  i think that the 350 is a faster engine compared to the
403 and only 5 HP difference.  with some aftermarket parts i will have 5+ HP
without the weight of the bigger motor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     OK, there are a few flaws in this logic.

     First, both the 403 and the 350 are SMALL BLOCK Olds motors.  External
     dimensions are identical.  Heads, manifolds, and all accessories are
     interchangeable.  They use virtually the same block casting, resulting
     in motor weights which are probably within a couple of pounds of each
     other.

     Second, all else being equal (and it really isn't, due to things like
     rod length, bore to stroke ratio, breathing capability of the heads,
     etc.), the engine with more cubic inches will have more horsepower.
     Those same aftermarket parts you plan to install on your 350 will bolt
     right up to the 403, producing a similar gain in performance.

     Third, I'm not sure where you get the 5 HP difference.  Is this from
     factory HP ratings?  If so, keep in mind the potential differences in
     smog equipment, cam profile, intake and exhaust, etc.  Again, with
     comparable cams (you _were_ going to install a new one during the
     rebuild, weren't you?) and intake/exhaust manifolds (interchangeable
     between the two motors, as noted above), the 403 should make
     significantly more HP and torque than the 350.

     The one fly in this ointment is the notorious "windowed" blocks used
     on the 403.  Most (all? - sorry, I'm more familiar with big blocks)
     350s have solid webs around the crank bearings, resulting in excellent
     strength.  The 403, having been designed during the downsizing of the
     1970s, has "windows" (basically, lightening holes) in these webs to
     save weight (ironically for your argument, the 403 is probably lighter
     than the 350 because of this).  As you might imagine, these windows
     don't exactly enhance the strength of the block for high-horsepower
     applications.  Of course, having said that, I would be surprised if
     these windows caused you a problem in almost any street-driven motor
     you might imagine.  I suspect only a really gonzo high-output motor
     would be compromised by the windowed block.

     Just remember:  The only substitute for cubic inches is rectangular
     dollars.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:44:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: senko@reston.ans.net (Andrew A. Senko)
Subject: More Lansing Pics!

Hey all!

I scanned some pictures today from the Lansing trip.  I had a choice of
either taking a few days to make a nice page out of them like Sparky did, or
providing you with straight ugly access NOW.  I chose the latter so that I
could provide my pics while the Lansing Fever was still high.

That being said, what I've done is place the pictures in a directory with
no HTML file.  When you enter the URL in your browser, it will simply
display the list of files.  You will see from the list that the files are
large, ranging from 54K to 88K.  View at your own risk and/or be patient!

A particular favorite of mine is the 87 442 with smoking tires!

Disclaimer:  In some cases, I knew the year of the car, in others I tried
to guess the decade it was from, and named the file based on that guess.
Enjoy!

- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)               http://members.aol.com/drewinva
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª820
********************************
