To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #851


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, September 17 1997    Volume 01 : Number 851



Uni-flex
dual batteries, wind chill
Date:Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:33:27 +0000
Re: NON-OLDS?
425 heads
Re: rebuilding olds 403
Re: Engine ID
80 Olds parking lights don't work....!@ª
Re: Engine ID
cruise control
Re: rebuilding olds 403
Reving the Olds 403
Re: Engine Swapout 70 350
Re: OAI Hoods
Re: Parting out 66 Olds Toronado!!!
69 442 Convertible
Re: OAI Hoods
Re: Reving the Olds 403
Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale
Re: Grey Ghost ?
Re: 69 442 Convertible
72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser
Re: Reving the Olds 403
Dave Ward rebuilt olds 403
Chris Brown Witt
Re: Clarence's '86 307 Q's
Re: 80 Olds parking lights don't work....!@ª
Re: Reving the Olds 403
Re: NON-OLDS 2
Re: OAI Hoods
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: OOPS!  69 console colors
torque converter for 1972 455
Re: 1969 442 Question
Re: torque converter for 1972 455
Re: OAI Hoods
RE: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser
Re: Tim's 4-4-2
New address
Re: torque converter for 1972 455
Re: torque converter for 1972 455
charley Buehner
1902 curved dash info wanted
Re: 307 and Edelbrock intakes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:25:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Uni-flex

Actually, if you have a drill-press or just a steady hand (drill press
preferred), *any* Olds flywheel can be made to be a "universal-fit" unit.
Only one hole is different, and it's just 5' (about) from symmetrical, but
in the opposite direction than the later units. This means, I believe, that
you can flip over a new-style unit to use as a pattern for an old-style
bolt-pattern (the way to check, of course, is to see if you can install an
old-style flywheel/flexplate backwards...). The details on this are in the
archives.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918
===============

Right, sort of. The trick is that the new hole location wants to interfere with
the old one, you have to drill "half a hole." Actually, the location scoop is:
Early has one hole offset one way. Late has that hole offset the OTHER way, and
another as well similar direction. So, TWO holes need to be modified.

The correct way to do this of course is with a mill and a rotary indexing head.
That is what I use. Then there's the special hardened washers that spread the
bolts' clamping load out properly. Etc. I put a lot of effort into developing
these units, and before I did it, I had never heard of anyone else doing it.

Whatever you do, DO NOT just flip the plate over, so that 5 out of 6 line up,
and run her that way. Seriously- I bought a motor that a previous owner did
this to. Oh, yeah, the BALANCE WEIGHT is like 60 degrees out of position, and
it shakes like an epileptic w*$&ª, but, hey, look at the $ he saved!
- -RS-
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:30:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: dual batteries, wind chill

two-battery car for winter.  The car is a 72 98, 455, so I could use all
the Amps I can get at -42 Celcius + windchill!

What would the CA's be with two 700's in parralel?  What about the
voltage drop under load?
===============
Uh, let's see, the CA's in parallel, about 2x700 maybe?
Voltage drop... in parallel... about the exact same as one battery?

Seems like every year we get this "wind chill" thing again.
Wind chill affects critters, not cars.

Your car, sitting in -30 air with a windchill of -60, will be at... -30. Unless
it's a living thing, wind chill does not matter. Only in the slightest in that
of course heat will be carried away faster by a moving cold air mass than a
stationary one, but the TEMPERATURE does not fall below that of the air, moving
or not.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:33:27 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Date:Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:33:27 +0000

Hello,

I have a couple questions,

1.  Can any one tell me why the Eldebrock intake for the 307 only fits up to
85, why will it not fit the 86 307?

2.  On my stock intake under the carb there are two metal tubes that are fit
to the bottom of the intake.  What are these for  and what effect does it
have when one is missing and the threads are corroded(sp)?  I think I need
to replace the intake but I might be wrong.

3.   What kind of diffrence will I notice if I run 3:08 gears instead of the
2:46's?



I know my car isn't much but I am happy with it.  It is a 4dr Cutlass, O/D,
all power, clean and only 59,000 miles.  I painted it about 3 years
ago(landrover blue).  It has the rally wheels,  Dual exhaust will cal
turbos,  and exits out the back.  It sound great, looks good, but cant back
up its sound with the little 307.  Every one likes the way it sounds and are
suprised to find out its not a 350.  It just doesnt' have any guts.  Its
great on road trips.  I just came back for mobile AL.  The trip from San
Antonio to Mobile and back om 60.8 gallons Total of 1415 miles I put on the
car it ran good for 11 yrs old.  I am getting ready to drive it to Kentucky
in a couple weeks That will be about 2300 miles round trips.  Its been a
greta car.  I bought it used 4 years ago.  I just want to get alittle more
performance and have fun doing it.  I have already did a bunch of small
things, ignition module, egr,o2 sensor, carb base plate gasket,
plugs, coil, rotor, cap, wires, new radiator, new front rotors, whell bearing.

Any one who can help with my question, Thanks

clarence
86 Cutlass 4dr.
76 ford f350



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:43:34 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: NON-OLDS?

Robert Lawrence wrote:
>
> >><< << SIGNS THAT YOU ARE TOO DRUNK:
> >>
> >>  You lose arguments with inanimate objects.
> >>
> >>  You have to hold onto the lawn to keep from falling off the earth.
> >>
> >>  Job interfering with your drinking.
> >>
> >>  Your doctor finds traces of blood in your alcohol stream.
> >>
> >>  Career won't progress beyond Senator from Massachusetts.
> >>
> >>  The back of your head keeps getting hit by the toilet seat.
> >>
> >>  Sincerely believe alcohol to be the elusive 5th food group.
> >>
> >>  24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case - coincidence?? - I think not!
> >>
> >>  Two hands and just one mouth... - now THAT'S a drinking problem!
> >>
> >>  You can focus better with one eye closed.
> >>
> >>  The parking lot seems to have moved while you were in the bar.
> >>
> >>  You fall off the floor...
> >>
> >>  Your twin sons are named Barley and Hops.
> >>
> >>  Hey, 5 beers has just as many calories as a burger, screw dinner!
> >>
> >>  Mosquitoes catch a buzz after attacking you
> >>
> >>  At AA meetings you begin: "Hi, my name is... uh..."
> >>
> >>  Your idea of cutting back is less salt.
> >>
> >>  You wake up in the bedroom, your underwear is in the bathroom, you
> >>fell
> >>  asleep clothed. - hmm.
> >>
> >>  The whole bar says 'Hi' when you come in...
> >>
> >>  You think the Four Basic Food Groups are Caffeine, Nicotine, Alcohol,
>
> >>and
> >>  [Women or Men].
> >>
> >>  Every night you're beginning to find your roommate's cat more and
> more
> >>  attractive.
> >>
> >>  Roseanne looks good.
> >>
> >>  Don't recognize wife unless seen through bottom of glass.
> >>
> >>  That damned pink elephant followed me home again.
> >>
> >>  Senators Kennedy and Packwood shake their heads when they walk past
> >>you.
> >>
> >>  I'm as jober as a sudge.
> >>
> >>  The shrubbery's drunk from too frequent watering.
> >>
> >>  You wake up screaming "TORO TORO TORO!" in the middle of the night.
> >>
>
Here's a few of my favourites:

 You know you're drunk when....

- --Your breath alone is 90 proof
- --You're convinced that you're serfectly pober
- --You think the cops are charging you with 'drublic punkeness'
- --You mistake the little guest soaps in the bathroom for
after-dinner     mints
- --Your neighbour calls you the next day, and asks you why you slept
on    his driveway the night before
- --When you walk into the bar, the bartender pulls out a funnel and hose
- --When you ask the bartender for a draft, he blows in your ear
- --You consider buying a Mazda
- --When you wake up, and you see the sun slowly rising....over the curb
- --When you roll your windows up, but leave the top down
- --You start making indy car noises and grabbing the shifter when
stopped   in heavy traffic
- --You try and use a beer bottle as the remote control
- --You stand in front the door, trying every key possible, and then
realize it's the window
- --You successfully drink yourself sober
- --When the nurse asks you your blood type, you yell out "Labatt's!"
(she says) "Are you positive?" (you say)"No lady, it's part Coors, too!"

- --When out fishing, you hear the frogs saying "Bud...weis...er!
- --You ask the cop what your Alcohol Blood Content is
- --The nurse doesn't need to use rubbing alcohol before drawing blood
- --Instead of anesthetic, the doctors tell you to cup your hands around
your face, and then inhale/exhale rapidly
- --You think that the "R" on the column stands for 'racing gear', and
you   shift into it at 80mph
- --You think that watching TV in black & white means sitting in front
of   the 'tube after drinking a bottle of scotch
- --You suck on the breathalyzer instead of blowing into it

I've got a few more, but I can't remember them.

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:49:30 -0400
From: mwalker@hadco.com (Mike Walker)
Subject: 425 heads

 Hey Folks,

 I have a '65 425 I am planning on rebuilding this winter to put in a
 67 C/S with factory 4spd (YEE-HAW!!!!). My question/concern is about
 the heads. The heads on the motor are A heads with the 3pc post mount
 rocker pivot. Can these be changed over to a normal rocker assembly ?
 OR ... I have a set of C heads from a 400, big valves etc. Consider-
 ing the different lifter angle and resultant push rod angle, can I use
 the C heads. I read on Brycemans, in the FAQ, the pushrod holes woould
 need to be opened to .562 (I think) but will valve ilft be affected by
 the different angle. I guess the question is will the pushrod length
 need to be changed to use the C heads. Thanks for any info !

 Mike (Why is nuttin ever simple) Walker
 67 Holiday cpe 330/320, T400
 67 C/S     cpe 330/320, 4spd  (The new FUN buggy)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:10:30 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: rebuilding olds 403

archy van wely wrote:
>
> At the moment I am rebuilding an olds 403 and I wonder how to make it
> faster/stronger.
> If possible I want to make it  turn about 8/9000 rpm.
> What must I change from the original to accomplish that.
> Thanks! archy
> usicon@pi.net The Netherlands

Eight or nine grand?  Why would you ever want an engine to rev that
high?  Seven, maybe seventy-five hundred is possible with a windowed
main web engine, and even then it's under serious stress.

First of all, you'd need a forged crank, which should be good up to
seven or seventy-two hundred.  After that, you'd need forged pistons,
and they're pretty costly here in North America as it is.  What are
prices like in the Netherlands, anyway?

Add in a wicked cam, large valves, strengthened valve-train and
pushrods, and a set of *really* stiff valve springs, otherwise they'll
float off of the pushrod, and your power will be flowing out your
exhaust pipe. (not to mention that the valvetrain would fly apart after
a 1/4 mile at 8,000!)

There are a few different ways you can boost up the compression, which
would help with a wild cam:  you can shave the heads, which makes the
combustion chamber closer to the piston head.  Or, you can buy pistons
that can kick up the compression.  Most pistons have two reliefs cut
into them, which eliminates the possibility of having a piston slamming
into a valve.  You can buy pistons with smaller cuts in them, which
raises the compression...just make sure your cam timing is perfect, and
be sure that a valve won't stick open...otherwise your piston and your
exhaust valve will get married, and you'll be buying them one expensive
present!

Once again, why do you want an engine that can rev this high?  Yes,
NASCAR mechanics can build a 9,000 rpm motor, but they have to be
rebuilt every 500 miles...

Sure, you could build a 7,500 rpm motor, but it'll cost you a good chunk
of change;  in the U.S., you'd have to dip to the hip for likely two or
three thousand dollars (and that's at the *cheap* end of the spectrum)

Not to discourage Oldsmobile, but Honda makes a V-Tech engine in the
Acura NSX which redlines at 8250...(it's 3.0L H6 that makes 280hp, which
I call pretty impressive)

I haven't had a lot of rebuilding experience, but I do know that a 8,000
rpm engine (espeically open web) will be very expensive, and tough to
create (you'll blow up a few when testing, too).

Best of luck,

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:22:43 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ID

hello all this about my engine is really interesting, btw it is all
origional ant I have all the parts that wre on the car if I have changed
them now,ie aircleaner etc.
Terry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:42:38 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: 80 Olds parking lights don't work....!@ª

All of a sudden my parking lights have stopped working on my 80 442,
along with my dash lights. Both went out at the same time. I still have
headlights, turnsignals, and brakelights. No taillights at night now
either, just headlights. I checked the obvious (fuses, bulbs) and put in
several fuses thinking they might be bad. I am leaning towards a ground
problem? If so where? Would this cause both the parking lights and dash
lights to go out? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
- --

********
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group - Valve Division
1995 DCM Impala SS.....my dream car come true
1980 Olds 4-4-2 W-30.....show car..one of 346 produced
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project
1985 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4X4......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:23:38 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ID

ok one last thing I have a build sheet for the car somewhere with the
owners manuel would that help determine it?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:39:36 -0500
From: Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
Subject: cruise control

Hi All,
    I was at a city auction today for impounded vehicles. They had a
1980 Olds Toro in the bunch for sale, but very badly damaged by vandals.
I did notice the motor looked ok and I was also looking at the cruise
control on the car. My question is will this cruise control work on a
1970 Olds cutlass ect... or are the ones from 1970 completely different.
It looked to me like they were very similar. Also if it is basically the
same thing how hard are they to come by or are they a dime a dozen?
P.S. The Toro sold for $75.00

Thanks,

Tom Williams
70 W31 OCAª28886

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:39:10 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: rebuilding olds 403

>>At the moment I am rebuilding an olds 403 and I wonder how to make it
>>faster/stronger.
>>If possible I want to make it  turn about 8/9000 rpm.
>>What must I change from the original to accomplish that.
>
>Well, you'd have to change just a few things:
>
[snip of everything in an engine]
>
>All-in-all, I'd say it'd be easier to modify your tachometer to read about
>double the actual engine speed, since the practical limit of the 403 is
>about half of what you're shooting for.

OK, ok, theoretically speaking I suppose it could be done, since the basic
geometry of the 403 is pretty decent. You could probably get 8000rpm out of
a 403 if you:

1) Start with a solid-main web block (if they in fact exist), completely
blueprinted, and filled the lower water passages with block hardener and use
a full block girdle. O-rings would be a definite *must*

2) Used *Ultra* lightweight forged pistons, and absolutely used aluminum rods

3) A billet crankshaft would be called for, though if you like living on the
edge, a factory 330 crank could be used, though I'd want to magnaflux it
about every 10-15 passes.

4) Batten heads, *heavily* ported, with the biggest possible valves, might
just get you to 8000rpm.

5) Fabricated sheetmetal intake, with at least 1400 cfm sitting up there.

6) Huge tube headers

7) Crank-triggered ignition

8) .700"+ lift solid cam, aluminum rockers, titanium valves

9) External oil pump, perhaps dry sump, or at least a stock system with the
standard mods and external drain-back lines. It would be good to have more
than 8 quarts of oil circulating in there.

The basic geometry of the 403 is very similar to the Ford or Chevy 302's,
which are capable of being high-winding motors, so whatever you do to them
should work on the 403. The big problem would be finding a solid-main block,
without which this buildup would simply be a kamikazee run (i.e. you'd see
8000rpm with this motor... once).

If you could find a suitable block, though, you could probably put together
the above motor for $20,000. It might produce 800-900hp, and have an
effective power band of 5500-8500rpm (I'm just guessing here; somebody here
might want to run these numbers through one of those dragstrip Jr. type
programs to see what it really would do).

Wouldn't be that much fun to drive a car with that engine on the street, 
though.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:49:49 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Reving the Olds 403

For those of you concerned or interested,

        Been reading the threads about building a 403 to withstand 8000-9000
RPM. There is no feasable way to make this engine do so. The piston to rod
angle is OK but the piston speed inccured to do this and the weight of the
pistons will really not allow it. Not to mention the oiling system and the
valve train. You may turn it to 7000-7500 a few times, but on time it will
protest loudly. Normally taking a good third of the main webs and the crank
with it. A 350 set up properly will turn 7500-7600, but costs some duckies
to do it. A 403 isn't the best high performance engine anyway. It is good to
do a street build up to replace a 260-307 smog engine and even a 350 if you
want it to look like one and have a few more cubes. If that is what your
looking for then a big block is really the way to go. Most out there
couldn't tell a 260/403 from a 400/455. You can make them believe about
anything.

Just my $.02

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:52:04 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 70 350

Mike

        The swap is a bolt in. When you remove the engine from the Buick to
put in the Olds make sure you remove the frame mounts too. Then bolt them
into your Cutlass chassis. There should be holes there for them. All the
A-body GM's used the same frame. As for the TH400 it's also a bolt in. The
wiring harness and plug should be under the dash near the gas pedal. Pink
and orange wires and a plug. This connects to the kick down switch for the
TH400. You may have to change the gas pedal assm from the Buick also. The
only other thing to remember is the transmission mount is different and so
is the front yoke of the driveshaft. Hope this helps.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:12:56 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

Perhaps one of the aftermarket parts vendors not currently listing or
carrying the OAI hood would also consider investing - hey, an OLDS (albeit
Olds Club of America) OAI hood sounds more attractive then a Year One OAI.
I believe the day will come in the not so far future where this will be a
viable idea.

I'm without capital of any kind at the moment or I'd volunteer :-(


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:04:33 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Parting out 66 Olds Toronado!!!

I had the opposite - no mail, then a ton.... No, all I need right now is
the side mirror.  Thanks much - is this car in San Bern?


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:50:04 -0600
From: Tim Rudolph <trudolph@frii.com>
Subject: 69 442 Convertible

Well,
  I decided to purchase the car I had mentioned a week or two ago, and I
picked it up today.  Despite its 'problems' it turned out to be exactly
what I was looking for and exactly in my price range for the time being,
and like I said.. couldn't have picked a car I wanted more.  I think I was
misleading before when I was talking about parts being removed from the
car..  They were removed but were still included in boxes that came with
the car.  The guy was also nice enough to put some of the parts back in
(heater core, fender wells) as well as setting me up with a matching set of
SSII wheels and some matching tires.  I'm proud of my purchase and I do
know that it needs some work, and thats what I'm willing to do with it.
And also it's good to know that I saved it from being parted out to another
guy who was looking at it.  Anyway.. just thought I'd update you guys..
if you want to take a look at it you can check out
http://www.frii.com/~trudolph/  There are some pictures of it in all its
glory (hah, yeah right)..

Tim Rudolph
trudolph@frii.com
'69 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

i have a repro. I hate it, it will not stay up with the dingo springs they
give you. Mine didnt have a lip to put the molding on near the windshield. It
has stress cracks threw out the cowl's. i think i should have painted it with
flex paint. I had to make a latch mech. for the center latch, basically it
pisses me off. Oh by the way i heard some of them dont follow the curve of
the fenders, so there kind of flat. And the worst part is everytime you drive
you have to stare at it as a constant reminder. By the way does anyone want
to buy it :). i paid 400 bucks
joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:17:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: Re: Reving the Olds 403

        Could anyone tell me the hp ratings and ft/lbs. ratings for a
1973-75 Oldsmobile 403 engine? I can't seem to find any specs on it....Thanx.

        Shayne Horn
        1970 Rallye350
        1985 Olds 442
>





For those of you concerned or interested,
>
>        Been reading the threads about building a 403 to withstand 8000-9000
>RPM. There is no feasable way to make this engine do so. The piston to rod
>angle is OK but the piston speed inccured to do this and the weight of the
>pistons will really not allow it. Not to mention the oiling system and the
>valve train. You may turn it to 7000-7500 a few times, but on time it will
>protest loudly. Normally taking a good third of the main webs and the crank
>with it. A 350 set up properly will turn 7500-7600, but costs some duckies
>to do it. A 403 isn't the best high performance engine anyway. It is good to
>do a street build up to replace a 260-307 smog engine and even a 350 if you
>want it to look like one and have a few more cubes. If that is what your
>looking for then a big block is really the way to go. Most out there
>couldn't tell a 260/403 from a 400/455. You can make them believe about
>anything.
>
>Just my $.02
>
>Jim Chermack
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:15:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale

Will he sell just one and if so how $$. and where is he located again VA??
How about a phone number. Or he can call me 516-593-9630 thanks joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:30:47 -0500
From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Grey Ghost ?

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
> Bradford W. Nicholson wrote:
>
> >    I am interested in accepting information on the gray ghost OLDS and
> > need information on how to proceed........ I will not deal with any non
> > matching numbers
> > Thank you for any information
>
> I thought I remembered reading about the Grey Ghost in a back issue of
> JWO.  So I pulled them all out and went through them.  I found it.  It
> was in the March '89 issue.  But I don't think it's what this guys is
> looking for.  "The Tale of the Grey Ghost" is about a guy from Canada
> that had a '77 Delta 88 Royale as a summer beater.  I have no knowledge
> of Olds having a "Grey Ghost (like I know everything, right?).  Don't
> know what he's talking about.

The only 'Grey Ghost' I've ever heard of was Confederate Col. John
Moseby. Somehow I don't think he is what this gentleman had in mind...

However, this brings to mind an idea I had for my Cutlass. I had wanted
to paint the car grey and have the hood painted with a mural of the
above-named officer. (If you guessed I'm a Civil War fan, you win!) Of
course, I had intended to put the hottest drive train I could afford
into the car. Then, I wanted to add the name of the car: The Grey Ghost.
Has anyone here had any of this type of painting done? I wouldn't have
the least idea of who to contact about this project.

JR
72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:39:53 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 69 442 Convertible

Tim Rudolph wrote:
>
> Well,
>   I decided to purchase the car I had mentioned a week or two ago, and I
> picked it up today.  Despite its 'problems' it turned out to be exactly
> what I was looking for and exactly in my price range for the time being,
> and like I said.. couldn't have picked a car I wanted more.  I think I was
> misleading before when I was talking about parts being removed from the
> car..  They were removed but were still included in boxes that came with
> the car.  The guy was also nice enough to put some of the parts back in
> (heater core, fender wells) as well as setting me up with a matching set of
> SSII wheels and some matching tires.  I'm proud of my purchase and I do
> know that it needs some work, and thats what I'm willing to do with it.
> And also it's good to know that I saved it from being parted out to another
> guy who was looking at it.  Anyway.. just thought I'd update you guys..
> if you want to take a look at it you can check out
> http://www.frii.com/~trudolph/  There are some pictures of it in all its
> glory (hah, yeah right)..
>
> Tim Rudolph
> trudolph@frii.com
> '69 442 Convertible
Tim,

Doesn't look all that bad in the pictures.  You might keep my e-mail
address as I hope to go look at a 69 Cutlass conv parts car soon.  It is
definitely a parts car, with no hope of recovery.  Where are you
located?

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:51:08 +0100
From: "J. Hoekendijk" <Hoekenj@apeldoorn.nl>
Subject: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

Fred,

I've seen your homepage before, including the brochure (for others:
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/3901/64vc.htm) , but it never
occured to me that it's really "Vista-Cruiser" (hyphenated). Kind of funny
they only used it in 1964. So from now on I'll use this notation too!
I have that brochure too, bought it at a swapmeet even before I bought
the VC. The VC I have is exactly the same as the one in the front page
on your webpage  and it was still all original (only the scripts are
missing...), numbers matching. I've now painted it sunset red metallic.

I've noticed that most Vista Cruisers on the list are 72, including yours. Is
there a reason for that?
I myself really wanted the 64 and had to wait a while before it came by.

You have a very nice homepage!

Jim Hoekendijk, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista-Cruiser Custom HC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:56:33 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Reving the Olds 403

At 11:17 PM 9/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>        Could anyone tell me the hp ratings and ft/lbs. ratings for a
>1973-75 Oldsmobile 403 engine? I can't seem to find any specs on it....Thanx.
>
>        Shayne Horn
>        1970 Rallye350
>        1985 Olds 442
>>
Shayne

        They didn't make 403's until 77. They quite in 79 or 80. Horsepower
ratings were all 185 hp. I don't remember the torque rating.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:28:50 +0200
From: "archy van wely" <usicon@pi.net>
Subject: Dave Ward rebuilt olds 403

I have got the picture!
It will be best to hold the engine standard, this way it will last a lot
longer.
About prices in Holland. OOps they are 2 or 3 times as exspensive.
It's really no fun sometimes.
But then again, a lot of people stop and watch me going when my very big
olds delta 88 royale town sedan (1976) slides across the road. Poetry in
motion.
Well thanks for the advice.
Greetings archy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:33:27 +0200
From: "archy van wely" <usicon@pi.net>
Subject: Chris Brown Witt

Hi there
I think after the advice I will try to rebuilt it just standard.
I had ni idea that making it a fast engine would be so complicated (if done
right) and not to mention as expensive.
Thanks for the advice.
Greetings from archy
The Netherlands

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:46:49 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Clarence's '86 307 Q's

> 1.  Can any one tell me why the Eldebrock intake for the 307 only fits up to
> 85, why will it not fit the 86 307?

Odds are good that it'll fit right on there, but their books just aren't
that far updated.  Can anyone verify this?????  Somewhere in there they
switched to the roller lifters, but I'm not sure ~when~ that happened,
or if additional intake clearance was necessary.  Anyone???

> 2.  On my stock intake under the carb there are two metal tubes that are fit
> to the bottom of the intake.  What are these for  and what effect does it
> have when one is missing and the threads are corroded(sp)?  I think I need
> to replace the intake but I might be wrong.

Choke preheater tube.  Under the carb, there is an exhaust passage going
through the intake manifold.  The choke runs a pipe through this passage
to "sense" the engine temperature and adjust accordingly (~not~ a
computer operation).  One pipe should go to the choke coil housing, and
the other should go to the back of the carb's air horn.  The air horn
one is simply a vent tube.  The choke side is actually pulling a vacuum
(sort-of) through there.  If either pipe is missing, you'll not really
have a vacuum leak, but you ~will~ have a dirt source.  Non-filterred
air will be able to enter the intake, and you ~really~ don't want that
to happen.  Replace the pipe or plug it off, either are acceptible.
Plugging it off ~will~ affect your cold weather drivability, and you may
need to adjust the choke to stay wide open, also.  Depends on your
desires and driving conditions.  The pipes are ~super-easy~ to find, so
I'd personally recommend fixing it right.  Thc choke coil s are kinda
spendy, though, but are available new everywhere.  As for the threads,
if it's not "popping" (i.e. an exhaust leak) I wouldn't worry about it.
It's a very high temperature piece, so corrosion is normal, kinda like
the exhaust manifolds; they won't hold paint very well.  If it's not
leaking, don't sweat it.  If you want show-quality, you might consider
something different there.  We'd be happy to offer suggestions in that
direction, if that's the case.
>
> 3.   What kind of diffrence will I notice if I run 3:08 gears instead of the
> 2:46's?

Slightly lower mileage, much better take-off power.

 I just want to get alittle more
> performance and have fun doing it.  I have already did a bunch of small
> things, ignition module, egr,o2 sensor, carb base plate gasket,
> plugs, coil, rotor, cap, wires, new radiator, new front rotors, wheel 
bearing.

With $$$ invested in computer stuff, I'd think about trying to find a
performance chip for your car.  Everyone says they help out a lot, and
I'm guessing you are financially tied into it enough to ~not~ want to
dump the computer.  The ~biggest~ performance increase you'll find lies
in the exhaust system.  Depending on your state's laws, you'll probably
have to keep a catalytic converter in there, but you can still run
headers and dual exhaust all the way back.  (Prolly have to replace the
converter to an upgraded unit though.  Price?  You probably don't want
to know)  I think the exhaust is going to help the best, though.  Get
some local estimates on exhaust systems.  Headers with taps for an O2
sensor, and possibly the air pipes if yours is so equipped.  Most of
that will be custom work, so mention it when getting an estimate, if you
want to retain all of your factory emissions/computer equipment.  A free
flowing air filter like K&N's is said to help alot, too.  If you can get
a large inlet duct to the front of the engine compartment (so that the
air cleaner has a good cold air intake) you'll probably be better off,
too.  You may try playing around with a distributor re-curve kit once
the other mods are done.

Maybe get a fuel pressure test and make sure the pump is doing its job
correctly

If the engine has more than even 80000 miles, there's a good chance the
timing chain is worn, so you might consider going down that far.  If you
~do~ consider this, and plan on doing an intake, too, this would be the
time to shove a cam in there, if you want some real performance.  With
headers, intake, cam, and good exhaust, you should have a really decent
powerplant that can still pull some mileage.  Granted, it'll still only
be a 307, but they ~can~ be made to perform well.  Plus, ~all~ of this
stuff will swap right in to a 350 or 403, too.  If you ~do~ choose the
cam route, I'd suggest scrapping the computer or finding a place that'll
custom burn a chip for you.  I don't know much about the availability on
that at all--I gave up looking 3 or 4 years ago, and yanked out my
computer.

> Any one who can help with my question, Thanks

That's what we're here for!

> 86 Cutlass 4dr.

The ~only~ thing more amusing than smoking other drivers in a four door,
is smoking other drivers in a four door ~station wagon~!  Trust me on
~that~ one.  The looks on their faces is absolutely priceless!  It goes
from a laughing "yeah right" look to a white, scared s**tless,
horrified, awe-stricken, and painful stare ~real~ quick!  Ya know full
well the ~only~ thing going through their minds is "What the **** just
happenned????!!!???"  It's beautiful!

Good luck!


- --

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:09:38 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: 80 Olds parking lights don't work....!@ª

Jason Labay wrote:
>
> All of a sudden my parking lights have stopped working on my 80 442,
> along with my dash lights. Both went out at the same time. I still have
> headlights, turnsignals, and brakelights. No taillights at night now
> either, just headlights. I checked the obvious (fuses, bulbs) and put in
> several fuses thinking they might be bad. I am leaning towards a ground
> problem? If so where? Would this cause both the parking lights and dash
> lights to go out? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
> --

Jason, check your fuses again. Get a test light and check em all (I
can't remember which one controls that for sure.  Turn the key and the
park lights on before checking the fuses (will make spotting ~any~ bad
ones alot easier)  It ~really~ sounds like a dead fuse to me.  I don't
think any ~one~ ground would knock all those out, since the dash runs
one ground, the front park lights run another ground (often shared with
the turning lamps) and the taillights share yet another ground.  If any
one ground is removed, you'd likely experience some backfeeding
problems, like a turn signal that doesn't work right, and stays lit
dimly all the time, etc...  Also, the dash lights are powered by a 5A
fuse that's powered by the park light circuit.  (That fuse should be
hiding on the upper left corner of the fuse block, labelled "INST".  I
~think~ the fuse you should be looking for would be labelled "TAIL" but
I just can't remember.  My '83 doesn't show it, and my 81's are 10 miles
away.  (Which is the other reason I suggest checking them all...)  If
you ~do~ find a blown fuse, you need to find ~why~ it blew, which can be
a tricky event in itself.  I've seen (personally) the wiper arms rubbing
through the insulation on the underhood lamp, and would "amazingly" blow
the fuse every time it rained at night.  Took me weeks to put all those
events together.  ~Check there~...  Other famous spots are the ashtray
light and the stereo illumination lead (both grey, but the ashtray's got
much thicker insulation...)  These will likely kill off the "INST" fuse
long before the other one, but they are common culprits if the stereo
has ever been changed by someone "less that professional."  Some may
know exactly what I mean here :)

I'll try to do some checking tomorrow on the '81 and see ~exactly~ what
fuse you should be focussing on for other diagnosis.  Do some function
tests on the rest of the car -- has anything else died?  Clock, horn,
etc?



             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:30:34 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Reving the Olds 403

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:

. If that is what your
> looking for then a big block is really the way to go. Most out there
> couldn't tell a 260/403 from a 400/455. You can make them believe about
> anything.

So true.  A local kid here (with '81 Cutlass Brougham) has a 350 (2
block, 8 heads) and claimed that it had been rebuilt, and that it was a
big block.  I told him he was full of ****.  He said the same of me, and
that NAPA had told him the same.  They had to "order big block parts for
it because they all were that way" or some line of crap like that (I
didn't see Pontiac written ~anywhere~ on that car!  I then proceeded to
ask him part numbers for the Edelbrock blower he was rumored to have
purchased for it (y'all can see where ~this~ is going, I'm sure!)  He
said they didn't have one for it.  I was shocked...  Honest :)  He
finally left, I finally laughed (out loud) and that was that.  He showed
up a couple days ago with stereo problems (unknown origin, but ~bad~
problems--smoked amp) I told him to pop his hood.  He did so, albeit
with a puzzled look on his face.  I grabbed a tape measure out of my
pocket (I'd been ~waiting~ for the day!) and stuck it between his valve
covers and showed him.  "Thirteen.  ~REMEMBER~ that number!"  Still
carrying his puzzled look, I drug him through the store, out the back
door, and popped the hood on the Rockit (which just happened to be with
me that day, and fully equipped with car trailer, to add to the image)
I popped the hood and stuck the tape down there.  "Notice!  ~FIFTEEN~
inches.  ~THIS~ is a big block.  YOURS ISN'T.  Get it?  Got it?  Good!"
(I kinda went off on him, but he needed it, his back bumper's two feet
off the ground and I ~know~ he doesn't have the torque to back up the
stance :)  He finally came to the conclusion that I knew what I was
talking about (Public relations, ya know.  You've ~got~ to earn their
trust!!!  :)  So, I spent about six hours today rewiring his stereo
system and putting in new amps in it (for a decent price, of course)
The last """"professional"""" installer had done a very shoddy install
(Which I delicately pointed out:  "This looks like s***, Dave.  Who did
this?") so I made it look good.  He seemed truly impressed with the
install job I did, it really looked much better.  He seemed to be happy
when it was done, too (despite all the ribbing I gave him about his "cat
- -in-heat" car!)  275-60R15s with over four inches between the tire and
wheelwell molding.  Lifted with coil blocks (the 3 inch pipe that sits
~above~ the springs) and paired with shock extenders.  ~No air shocks~
I was kinda impressed.  With the front end of the car pulled up three
inches (with good tires and new springs) it would probably look mean as
hell.  But...

Anyway, enough ranting and raving.  It's getting late and I ~should~ be
in bed...  Ooh well...  I think we successfully earned a customer out of
the deal, anyway.   Oh, incedentally, I've ~never~ seen an amplifier
fried ~that~ bad!  EVER.  I'm sure it actually caught fire inside.  Bad.
- --

             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
                    Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:56:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: NON-OLDS 2

in nj,
you would also........

buy a chevy

root for the ny giants......

vote for christie whitman for gov...........

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:31:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

In a message dated 97-09-17 01:01:31 EDT, you write:

<< i have a repro. I hate it, it will not stay up with the dingo springs they
 give you. Mine didnt have a lip to put the molding on near the windshield.
It
 has stress cracks threw out the cowl's. i think i should have painted it
with
 flex paint. I had to make a latch mech. for the center latch, basically it
 pisses me off. Oh by the way i heard some of them dont follow the curve of
 the fenders, so there kind of flat. And the worst part is everytime you
drive
 you have to stare at it as a constant reminder. By the way does anyone want
 to buy it :). i paid 400 bucks
 joe >>


Joe -

Man you drive a hard bargain!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:21:10 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

Mikeytvb@aol.com wrote:
>
> why would you switch to a th-400?  they just sound like a better tranny, but
> with a 350 and a shift kit it can outperform any 400 w/2000 stall.  the 350
> is a lighter tranny and you can buy a 2000 stall for it too.

If you have a 2000 stall for the 350, you "automatic"-ally have one for
the 400.  They will interchange with each other.  But, depending on the
torque input, that stall speed is raised or lowered from that "general"
2000 stall reference point.  If you are going with a modified engine,
and a lot of horsepower and torque, you will have to modify the TH350
to  equal the load capacity of a stock TH400.  Consider this- why did
the factory put TH400s behind the big-inch engines, while the TH350 was
put behind the small-inch engines?  Because the TH400 can handle the
increased torque.  The TH350 has a lighter internal rotating mass, but
must be modified to handle increased torque loads.  With this done, it
will make a good performance trans.  I particularly like the TH400
because you can beat it to death and it is ready for more.  The only
transmission I've ever killed was a TH350.  I put it behind a modified
455 and thought I might get away with it.  It was fine until I put a
good hooking set of slicks on the car.  I've yet to destroy a TH400.

The TH350-TH400 swap will require moving the crossmember rearward
(should already have the mount holes if the car could have came with a
TH400), and getting a TH400 yoke and transmount, and shortening the
driveshaft.  Remember, this will also require the modification of the
parking brake cables.

Just my point of view

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:33:13 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: OOPS!  69 console colors

> Mike: thanks for the response...what you wrote is what my 69 442 has.
> Good to know mine is correct.  Keep that advise coming. I look forward
> to it.  Its great to have an Olds wizard like you advise us less
> informed.

I AM NOT A WIZARD!  If I were, I wouldn't need assembly/chassis manuals
for reference and wouldn't post my OWN questions on the list.  I help
where I can.  Collectively, the list members can probably answer almost
any Olds-related question.  I am proud just to be a tiny part of that.
The fact of the matter, is that if you have knowledge, share it.  That's
the only way for others to learn.  I am still learning.....

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:56:32 -0400
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: torque converter for 1972 455

I've been getting all kinds of answers for this one, so someone from
Olds-land, please help!

I have a 1972 442 w/ 455, Turbo 400, 3:23.  The trans in the car now is
from a '77 (replaced about 12 years ago) and it is shot - "big" slip
from first to second (my god is this a 455 engine??? - doesn't feel like
it...), sometimes shifts from first to third, vibrations and noises
possibly coming from the transmission (already checked the driveshaft
and u-joints)  and so on...

I have a rebuilt trans with a torque converter but i'm not sure if the
tq conv. would be best with this year car and engine.  I read in "turbo
400 transmission" that most GM torque converters have a stall bt. 1250
and 1900 rpm.

I heard all kinds of answers about the torque converter:  no, there's no
difference; there's a minor difference but you won't feel it, there's a
major difference; try a 2000 stall; try a stall that has an rpm the same
as your max torque rpm.....'heck, that would be 2800 rpm.  Wrong!  i
have a stock cam in there...

joe gambo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:06:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: NotDads442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1969 442 Question

Thanks to all for your replys!  I've passed all your responses on to my
friend.

He just paid $3500 for his '69.  All in all a pretty solid car.  Some rust in
the usual places but it has a 455 that was rebuilt less than 2 years ago.  He
seller gave my buddy the receipts and the total was $2600 in the engine
alone.  The trans has also been rebuilt in the last year.  Overall I think he
did pretty good.

Thanks again!
Cecil
1991 W-41
OCAª29604

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: torque converter for 1972 455

In a message dated 97-09-17 10:13:08 EDT, you write:

<< I heard all kinds of answers about the torque converter:  no, there's no
 difference; there's a minor difference but you won't feel it, there's a
 major difference; try a 2000 stall; try a stall that has an rpm the same
 as your max torque rpm.....'heck, that would be 2800 rpm.  Wrong!  i
 have a stock cam in there...

 joe gambo >>
Stock W automatic cars came with 1800 rpm stall convertors.  But to maximize
your
stock cam, I would use the Hurst Trophy taker convertor.  Its stalls from
2000 to 2200 rpm.  I use this with a stock 455, stock 442 of the 72 year.
 The stall wasnt noticible until I stomped the gas and speed off.  I achieve
quarter times of
mid thirteens until I changed the bump stick.  Once I put in the Crane Cam
224 duration at .050 and 496 lift with 110 centerline, I did achieve 13.20's.
 Once I put in the 4.10 rearend then I achieved times of 12.96 in the
quarter.

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30 running 12.47's @ 108.23mph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:26:17 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

> I believe the day will come in the not so far future where this will be a
> viable idea.
>
> I'm without capital of any kind at the moment or I'd volunteer :-(

Volunteer anyway.  Any support is better than none.  It costs nothing to
volunteer.  If not in capital, then in "legwork" maybe?  For instance,
if you are real chummy with any engineers, people with AutoCad or CAD
accessability, and some free time to spend on design, a lot of cost can
be saved this way.  Unfortunately, the engineers I know don't know a
carb from a fender, are extremely busy with their own projects, and it
would be hard pressed for them to be convinced they are helping out the
Oldsmobile world. This is just a for instance.

Of course, die-making is another story.  If the units are produced in
large numbers, then the cost per unit goes down too.  Usually, if a
manufacturer can supply the complete package "in-house" from
cradle-to-grave, costs can be saved also.  These are just some ideas.
Most likely, the first step is to establish a development team, with
time to devote to the project, to make detailed drawings of the hood.  I
don't mean just that its so wide, and so long with a couple of scoops, I
mean MICRO-detailed.  Curves, angles, measurements down to the letter.
Called blue-prints. This can be done.

The trick here is to ensure the costs are market fathomable.  If it
would cost me 2500 per hood, and I can find a good original for around
1-1.5K, then you know which one I'll buy.  I'm interested in this
project, but along with a lot of people, not a lot of time or cash to
devote to it.  I will help out though, where and when I can.

Mike Blankenship, you are out there and looked into this once, can you
tell us how you started?

Food for thought,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 14:52:48 UT
From: "Fred Orcutt" <F_M_O@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

I've wondered myself why there are so many 72 VCs represented.  The production
numbers for the VCs for many of the production years show about 20,000+ each
year. It doesn't look like 1972 was extraordinary; so it probably is
coincidence.

- ----------
From: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of J. Hoekendijk
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 12:51 AM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Cc: f_m_o@msn.com
Subject: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

Fred,

I've seen your homepage before, including the brochure (for others:
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/3901/64vc.htm) , but it never
occured to me that it's really "Vista-Cruiser" (hyphenated). Kind of funny
they only used it in 1964. So from now on I'll use this notation too!
I have that brochure too, bought it at a swapmeet even before I bought
the VC. The VC I have is exactly the same as the one in the front page
on your webpage  and it was still all original (only the scripts are
missing...), numbers matching. I've now painted it sunset red metallic.

I've noticed that most Vista Cruisers on the list are 72, including yours. Is
there a reason for that?
I myself really wanted the 64 and had to wait a while before it came by.

You have a very nice homepage!

Jim Hoekendijk, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista-Cruiser Custom HC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:33:59 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: Tim's 4-4-2

Tim,
Good luck, you have quite a job ahead of you, but it looks like a good
car to save.  I had always felt my car was boarder line for restoration.
While in Lansing I saw before pictures of many of the cars.  In a couple
of cases the before pictures made my car look almost cherry.  Yours is
way nicer than what a lot of restored cars started out.  Thanks for
saving another Olds.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: chray@Logical.Net
Subject: New address

This is just a memo to tell you that the Cotton Hill Studios web address has
been changed.  The new address is www.capital.net/com/cttnhill

Please make a note.  Thanks.

Ray

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:11:40 -0400
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: Re: torque converter for 1972 455

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 97-09-17 10:13:08 EDT, you write:
>
>  joe gambo >>
> Stock W automatic cars came with 1800 rpm stall convertors.  But to
> maximize
> your
> stock cam, I would use the Hurst Trophy taker convertor.  Its stalls
> from
> 2000 to 2200 rpm.  I use this with a stock 455, stock 442 of the 72
> year..
>  The stall wasnt noticible until I stomped the gas and speed off.  I
> achieve
> quarter times of
> mid thirteens until I changed the bump stick.  Once I put in the Crane
> Cam
> 224 duration at .050 and 496 lift with 110 centerline, I did achieve
> 13.20's..
>  Once I put in the 4.10 rearend then I achieved times of 12.96 in the
> quarter.
>
> W MACHINES
> 72 442 W-30 running 12.47's @ 108.23mph

Mr. wmachines:

thanks for your reply!!!  sounds good.  one more question.  i drive this
car every day (12,000 mi/yr), usually on the highway.  how would this
"hurst trophy" converter affect things like everyday driving, top-end,
top-speed?

again, thanks

gambo

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:04:10 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: torque converter for 1972 455

Joseph Gambaccini wrote:
>

> I have a rebuilt trans with a torque converter but i'm not sure if the
> tq conv. would be best with this year car and engine.  I read in "turbo
> 400 transmission" that most GM torque converters have a stall bt. 1250
> and 1900 rpm.
>
> I heard all kinds of answers about the torque converter:  no, there's no
> difference; there's a minor difference but you won't feel it, there's a
> major difference; try a 2000 stall;


If you are racing the car, then you would like to raise that stall speed
to somewhere around 2800 or so.  During the race you really only need
the stall from the starting line.  There are two types of stall you must
be concerned with.  Flash stall is one of them.  But that's another ball
game.

I imagine you are wanting this to be a street cruiser, where, you won't
be going from idle to 6000 rpm from the stop light.  High stall speeds
on the street should not be used.  The higher the stall, the higher the
trans fluid temps also, and waste some gas.  I recommend, since you have
a "stock" cam, that you stick with the factory type stall speeds.  The
stall speeds you listed from the manual are probably from the same type
torque converter.  Advertised stall speeds are general.  Torque input
has a lot to do with stall speed on the same converter.  More torque,
more stall.  Simple as that.  You need to figure out what you want to do
with the car, and buy/install parts accordingly.  A high stall converter
alone won't make your car lightning quick.  You'll need gears, consider
weight, engine mods, etc.  If still in doubt, call up one of the
manufacturers of torque converters.  They can most likely help you
determine which converter is best for your application.  If you tow a
boat, for example, you may want to consider a low stall speed.  I run a
2200 TCI torque converter behind my "stock" 502 crate-motored 76 GMC
truck.  It acts almost like a stock converter, because the truck is so
darn heavy, but it also helps a little when I wind it up some.

Just another idea.....

Mike Rothe

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:21:18 +0200
From: "archy van wely" <usicon@pi.net>
Subject: charley Buehner

Well, it seems to me that you really know your stuff.
That give's me the oppurtunity to ask you about my car overhere in the
Netherlands.
I am trying to restaurate an olds delta 88 royale town sedan from 1976.
It has got a SMALL BLOCK 350.
There has to be a little body work to be done and make it ready for the
weather overhere. In the time that I am working on the car I have found a
lot of information about it, but what I haven;t found out is how the car is
technicaly.
I mean did they have a lot of problems? Are there problems that are "just"
happen with the delta 88 of that year. Is there something I have to give
special atention. Is there something I really not should do. And stuff like
that.
I hope I did not ask you to much but I hope you can help me out a bit.
Anyway greetings from Holland!
Archy

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:18:56 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: 1902 curved dash info wanted

This past weekend my wife and I hosted a car show locally.  One of the
entrants was a 1902 Curved Dash.  I had seen the car around and always
thought it was one of the reproduction copies.  The owner claims it is
genuine.  The car is running a Briggs and Stratton engine in place of
the missing original.  It also has a 2 speed with reverse, transmission.
The body sets on large leaf springs, one on each side.  They run front
to rear with the axles mounting to them.  After looking the car over I
feel it may be the real thing, but I did not look at any of the
originals in Lansing close enough to be certain.  The owner did say that
he had to get replacement wire spoke wheels custom made to the correct
size.  He claims that 1902 was the only year to get the wire wheels.
I am hoping someone can help with this mystery or at least point me in
the right direction.

Thanks,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:29:58 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: 307 and Edelbrock intakes

Clarence,

The Edelbrock intake will physically mount to the '86-up 307, but it's not
recommended.  It's only recommended for 307's with 5A heads, not 7A heads (the
number is on the head, easiest to see right by where the neg. battery cable
attaches) because the 7A heads have tiny intake (and exhaust) ports so since 
the
Edelbrock intake ports are so much larger you'll get a reversion effect and
really hurt power.  Don't get too bummed out though, with the '86-up 307 you do
have hydraulic roller lifters, which no other Olds V8 has.  Chris Witt posted a
nice article yesterday on 307 hop-ups, you should read that.

BTW, Chris Witt if you're reading this, can you please explain more about that
stop that prevents the secondaries from opening fully on some carbs?  How do we
tell if it's there, and how can it be removed/fixed?

The two metal tubes down there are where the EGR gasses enter the manifold.
Those tubes go down into the runner underneath the manifold that has exhaust in
it.  If one is broken, don't worry about it at all, you'll never miss it.  If
one is crumbling, I would worry about pieces coming off and getting sucked down
into the cylinders.  In fact, the Edelbrock intake doesn't even use those.  It
just has two holes in the floor.  I called Edelbrock to ask them about this too
and they gave the same answer.

Gears: wow!  Big difference off the line!  If you have an overdrive tranny,
consider 3.23, 3.42 or even 3.73:1 gears.  Gas mileage will go down about
proportionally though.

Other goodies you can add:  K&N filter (for the stock housing, they do make
them--I have one--don't give up.  Try a 4x4 performance shop, since many Chevy
trucks take the same filter), Performance computer chip (easy as pie to 
install,
no drawbacks except the price.  Probably will give the smallest
bang-for-the-buck of any mod), swap the exhaust manifolds with ones off a 5A
head 307 (they're better flowing, but if you go this far mightaswell get the 5A
heads too).

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª851
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