To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #853


oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, September 18 1997     Volume 01 : Number 853



Re: Oil pressure
Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...
Re: Engine Parts
Re: Drving experience
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Oldsmobile Humor
Re: 72 442 - How do ya tell real or fake
Woo hooo!!!!  A wagon mag!
Re: Drving experience
Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...
Re: Engine Parts
Re: OAI Hoods
Thanks scott! Re: Parts for RC
Re: W-455 Intake Nipple  HERE'S THE PART ª!!!!!!!
remove from mailing list please
Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale
net parts search
Re: Drving experience
Knocking sound that's intermittent
Grey Ghost Saga Somewhat Solved
[none]
Car restoration
1972 production figures
Re: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser
Re: OAI Hoods
Re: 1902 curved dash info wanted
Re: torque converter for 1972 455
Re: net parts search
Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...
Re: Oil pressure
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: Engine Parts
Re: All read! I don't know much yet...
65 442 console
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: Body bolt info
Re: Twin Batteries & Cold Weather Starting
Re: Drving experience
Re: 1972 production figures
Re: OAI Hoods
Re: Drving experience
Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350
Re: repro OAI hoods
Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.
Re: Grey Ghost ?
Re: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:52:39 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure

Brad Bowles wrote:
>

>         I think the oil is thinning out.  I run 10-W30.  The oil pump is new,
> and so is the sending unit.  Should I change to 20-W40?  What should I
> do?

I don't want to open a can of worms on this, but if you run 10W-30 then
you will be just fine.  Clearances make a big difference.  switching to
a heavier oil is only to make up for big clearances.  Higher viscosity
oil takes horsepower away, although maybe not enough to notice, but it
does.  The oil is thicker when cold, so a high pressure is normal.  As
it warms, the oil gets thinner, which is also normal.  If you are
reading 15 psi when warmed up and idling, that's OK. (about 1/4 mark on
factory guage, roughly)  If you are running 45-60 psi at speeds, you're
OK.  Pressure is not the issue.  Volume and flow is the issue.  Putting
in a high pressure oil pump really doesn't account for much.  The reason
most people recommend heavy weight oils for racing is because of the
large/loose clearances their engines have, which are usually done for
racing purposes.  On a street engine, 10W-30 has served me well.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:56:56 -0500
From: "Adam Boeding" <boedinga@ccsi.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...

Thanks Mike...   will do as you say.
350 Rocket 4barrrel carb.
Green in color
Single Exhaust for now.
I'll have to check the VIN and look for the build sheet.  Unfortunately
I've relocated to Austin, TX and haven't brought the car down from home
yet.  It's currently garaged and has been since I went away to college.
Thanks for the response and I look forward to finding out more.  As far as
the value, I doubt I'll ever sell it due to sentimental value but I was
just wondering for sh*ts and giggles.
I don't remember an SX anywhere but I could be wrong.
once again thanks...
Adam Boeding

- ----------
> From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 1:50 PM
>
> Adam Boeding wrote:
> >
> > > > When I was 14, now 22.  I inherited a 71 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop
from
> > my
> > > > great grandmother.
>
> > > > I am an Oldsmobile enthusiast and would like to know more about my
car
> > > such
> > > > as value, engine I have, HP, and anything else so I can feel like I
> > have
> > > > something to compare as I read everyone else's messages.  I
apologize
> > for
> > > > my message not being as technically related as the others but
remember
> > I
> > > am
> > > > just learning the ropes right now.  Thanks....
> > > >
> >
>
> We all try to learn.  Congrats on such a great car!  53K is nothing for
> a 26 year old car.  Value is not so much what you think it's worth, but
> more what other people are willing to pay.  Another huge subject in
> itself.  You must provide more information, such as what size engine, 2
> or 4 barrel carb, single or dual exhaust, transmission type,  Vehicle
> Identification Number off title or bottom driver's side of windshield
> opening (VIN), body plate info(under the hood close to the VIN) and some
> other items.  If it has a small block under the "Cutlass" on the front
> fender that says "SX" then you are in for a TREAT!  A lot of things.
> The members on this list can then "pick apart" your car and tell you
> much more about it.  If you haven't tried yet, look for the build
> sheet.  This is a piece of paper in the car when it was manufactured,
> usually located under the seats in the springs, or just about anywhere
> in the car.  If you can find this, it has a bunch of codes on it that
> can help us decipher what your car had on it when it went out the door
> at the plant.  You didn't even tell us what color it was!  We need more
> info.
>
> As far as what it's worth, are you going to sell it?  If not, don't
> worry about it.  But is would be worth more than a comparable Ch*velle.
>
> Keep learning.  Buy the chassis and assembly manuals.  Worth their
> weight in gold.
>
> Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:15:48 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Engine Parts

Gary, may I suggest Kanter Hard to find autoparts, they specialize in
Hard to Find parts, and rebuild kits, thats where I finally found my
Oil Pump rebuild kit, after Summit, NAPA, Farm and Fleet, AutoZone,
Western Auto, and a dozen other local places could find it. There in
the net, I believe it is just kanter.com, or you could do a search on
it too.

1975 Olds 98 Regency 2dr hrd top, 455 ci, Racing Cam, duel exhaust,
glass packs, 850cfm Carb, (also for sale)
1977 Olds Cutlass Supreme 350, (going in for engine rebuild, sapping
for 70 350 buick until olds is done)
1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 2dr hrd top

> My 1964 Dynamic 88 Convertible is looking forward to having it's engine
> finally rebuilt, but I am having trouble locating kits for the rebuild.  It
> is feeling like the lonely stepchild that nobody wants.  It is starting to
> develop a complex because it is not as popular as the 442 or 330's.  Almost
> the same feelings of being the last one chosen in gym class.  Can somebody
> help me out, before I have to take her to the therapist.
>
> Gary
>           \\|//
>           (o o)
> ~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Gary M. Manton                  SAS Institute
> Business Solutions Division         Phoenix, AZ  85012
> (602) 265-1616 ext. 230 - voice             (602) 265-8585 - fax
>
> "In business as in life, your chances of being run over are doubled
> if you stay in the middle of the road"
> ~~~~~~oooo~~~~~oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:08:12 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Drving experience

Hi all,

A friend at work here has a husband that has built up a Ford Cobra
(blower, etal...) and she gave me a ride in it today.  I must say
that it didn't feel like my 442.  Don't get me wrong since this
car really could move and do tight turns, however, my 442 feels/
sounds better?!  It is hard to explain.  Needless to say when I get
my 442 repaired, I will definitely give her a ride.

Oh well....

Why is it that Fords make a lot of sound and don't seem to be going
anywhere?  This is one reason why I like Oldsmobiles, they run softly
and carry a big stick (meaning that they are at speeds and you don't
even realise it)

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:25:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

do whatever you want to your car.  you don't have to listen to me.  i am only
someone to give you a few words of advice.  and the th-350 with a 700hp
motor, the tranny was professionally built.


mikey tvb@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:36:55 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

I wasn't entirely disagreeing with you, I am aware of the differences
between the TH350 and TH400, but with the money I have available now,
and the equipment, it works out the best, and if I ever decide to go
to a larger engine , (i.e. 455), I would be set for it.


> do whatever you want to your car.  you don't have to listen to me.  i am only
> someone to give you a few words of advice.  and the th-350 with a 700hp
> motor, the tranny was professionally built.
>
>
> mikey tvb@aol.com
>
- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:15:42 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Oldsmobile Humor

Offered, with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy:

You might be an Oldsmobile fanatic if . . .

the pin number for your ATM card is 0442.

the used car manager at the local Oldsmobile dealership calls you to ask
the value on a Hurst/Olds someone is thinking of trading.    And you give
him a lowball figure in the hope you can then get there quickly enough to
outbid them for the car.

your living room furnishings can be described in just three words - Strato
Bucket Seats.

you know what all the W-codes stand for, from 25 to 46.

you think that popcorn is done perfectly in your microwave oven, when
heated for 4 minutes and 42 seconds.

you can spot a fake Hurst/Olds, from across the parking lot.

you can spot a fake Curved Dash Olds.

all your E-Mail messages are sent with a priority value of 442, on a scale
from 1 to 999.

your son is named Bravada.

your lawn tractor has a pair of OAI scoops.    And a chrome "trumpet"
extension on the exhaust pipe.

you can remember the VIN from your now long-gone first Cutlass, but you
have difficulty remembering your wedding anniversary.    Any of them.

you have a whole shelf in the garage devoted to Oldsmobile hubcaps you've
picked up off the street, all of which are at least slightly damaged, none
of which match, and which you're keeping for the day when you pick up a car
that needs them.

at least 30% of the books in your library are Chassis Service Manuals from
Lansing.

you've been on the showroom floor at the local Oldsmobile dealership so
often, that none of the sales people will talk to you anymore.

you dress up like Dr. Oldsmobile or Elephant Engine Ernie, and it isn't
Halloween.

you have a new drive shaft for a '57 Super 88 stored in your garage, and
you've never owned a car older than a 1968.

you have a drawer full of "toy" Oldsmobiles which the kids don't dare play
with.

you have a file cabinet full of JWO back issues.

Now, I'll admit that I'm guilty of some of these things.    Alright, I'm
guilty of alot of them, but 0442 isn't my PIN number.  Anymore.  How many
are you guilty of?

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America ª3943  <---- That's not my PIN number either.
Ann Arbor, MI               Only because I just now thought of it.
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:03:17 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: 72 442 - How do ya tell real or fake

Bob,

Be sure to pickup a book that tells you all the code and vinª information
about oldsmobile cars, if your looking to buy a car.  It's worth it!

For a 1972 4-4-2, here some info for you.

First, the Vin number:


first digit.  "3" = division of GM (Oldsmobile)

second digit identifies the series.
F = F85 2 door coupe
G = cutlass
J = cutlass supreme (hurst/olds)

third and fourth digits is the body type.
57 = 2 door hardtop coupe (hurst/olds)
67 = 2 door covt. (hurst/olds)
77 = 2 door club coupe
87 = 2 door hard top coupe

fifth digit the engine.
H = 350 2/bl  160 hp
J = 350 2/bl dual exhaust  175 hp
K = 350 4/bl  180 hp
M = 350 4/bl dual exhaust  200 hp
U = 455 4/bl   "     "     250 hp
V =  "    "    "     "     270 hp
X =   "   "  (W30)         300 hp

sixth digit model year (2= 1972)

seventh digit assembly plant
G = Framingham, MA
M = Good ol' Lansing, MI
R = Arlington, TX
Z = Fremont, CA

Last six digits = production ª. starting with 100001/up

Now for the body plate... I'll just give you an example because I'm not
going to type out all the info!!!

ST     72-33687   LAN    123456     BODY
TR     970     A51       11 - 11    PAINT

72= model year
3 = Oldsmobile
36 = series - with the cutlass supreme 4-4-2 the code is (4267) also covt
              & W30
87 = 2 door hardtop coupe
LAN = assembly plant (Lansing MI)
123456 = production ª
970 = trim code
A51 = seat type code
11 = lower body color
11 = upper body color
04C = build date (april, 3rd week)

Hopes this helps you a little.  As I said be sure to get a book that
tells you what the codes mean.  Most part suppliers carry one.

One last thought... does the guy have any original paperwork?

PS - If anyone disagrees with the above info, please complain to "Car &
Parts Magazine". not me! (unless my finger slipped) :)

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

=========================================================================
>I would appreciate your help. I'm thinking of buying a 72 442 conv. How
>can I
>be sure it's a real 442 & not a clone? Owner tells me ªs match but there
>is
>no way to distinquish a 442 by VIN, Is there another way?
>Thanks,
>Bob from NJ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:11:06 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Woo hooo!!!!  A wagon mag!

I was thumbing throught the Oct. Hot Rod this evening when I found a
blip about a magazine that features nothing but wagons.  It's called
"Wagons of Steel".  HR compares wagons of steel to a punk-rock fanzine:
"photocopied, 36 pages of home-brewed opinion and fun, full of
irreverence and disrespect.."  The mag includes the likes of vintage
ads, junkyard visits and t-shirts for sale.  $2 per issue.

You can write them at:

P.O. box 1635, Vashon, WA 98070

Sounds like it might be pretty cool.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme
`80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:05:01 -0400
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Drving experience

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A friend at work here has a husband that has built up a Ford Cobra
> (blower, etal...) and she gave me a ride in it today.

What year? Brand of Blower? How much boost? Makes a big difference.

> Oh well....
>
> Why is it that Fords make a lot of sound and don't seem to be going
> anywhere?  This is one reason why I like Oldsmobiles, they run softly
> and carry a big stick (meaning that they are at speeds and you don't
> even realise it)

My 80 442 is a loud car for some reason. Not counting the loud exhaust I
have :-) Under the hood is more noisy than my 93 Z/28 was. I have never
heard a car as quiet as my 95 Impala SS. Quiet as can be, 4,233 lbs and
runs 14.7 @ 95.1 in the 1/4. Now thats a car that runs softly and
carries a big stick :-)


********
Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)  Akron, Ohio
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group - Valve Division
1995 DCM Impala SS.....my dream car come true
1980 Olds 4-4-2 W-30.....show car..one of 346 produced
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25.....restoration project
1985 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4X4......work truck

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:54:35 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...

Hi Adam and welcome to this Olds list!

>>This car is my baby but I must admit I am not as knowledgeable as most of
you.>

Adam, if it makes you feel better, I started out just like you!  I had a 72
cutlass S in high school and didn't know much about Oldsmobiles other than I
knew I loved the 1968 - 1972 cutlass models!


>>I joined this list serve to hopefully educate myself as I read the
messages.>>>

Believe me, this is the best place you can go to learn about your car!  I
just bought mine this June and have learned a degree full, (well almost)  :)
Don't be afraid or shy to ask questions!  That's the fastest way to learn.
For example, we had a guy ask "what's the proper tire pressure".  Don't
hesitate to ask questions!  Nobody on the list is an official "Olds Expert",
(however Mr. Rothe and some others come close)  ;)


<<Mike Rothe wrote..."Keep learning.  Buy the chassis and assembly manuals.
 Worth their weight in gold".>>

Absolutely!  If you plan to keep the car for a while or what to fix it up,
invest a little for the following manuals!  Stay away from "chiltons" :(
Many companies sell "reprints" of service manuals, but I found by the time
you add shipping you can usually buy an original at a swap meet for less.

"Chassis Service Manual" - a 1971 manual is blue in color with dark blue
                       lettering and is about 1-1/2" thick.  A must have!
                        The cheapest price I found was $20. up to $65.

"Fisher Body Service Manual" - (not a necessity) a 1971 manual is red in
                           color with white lettering and about 1" thick.
                            This covers all body parts & panels.  Cost:
                           $15. - $30.

"Assembly Manual" - This is a "must have".  It covers everything, plus gives
                    you part numbers and proper names.  I have never seen an
                    original!  Many companies sell reprints.  Cost:  $18. -
                   $40. (same manual believe it or not!) "Specialty Olds"
                   sells them for $16.50.

"Owners Manual" - Shows you how to turn on the radio, open the glove box,
                  and roll down the window! :)

Here's some parts suppliers to get you started:

"Specialty Olds"  (FL)  800-622-2024

"Year One"  (GA)  800-year one

"Brothers"  (MO)  800-442-part (7278)

"Super Cars Unlimited"  (OR)  503-244-8249

"Fusick's"  (CT)  860-623-1589

Most of these guys have a small charge for their catalogs, (ex. $5.00)

Also try "Hemmings Motor News"  a monthly, national publication for the sale
of classic cars and parts.

Well, I hope my typing wasn't in vein!  Good luck and welcome to the list!

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:47:47 -0400
From: "Terry & Tammy" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Parts

try Kanter for the parts

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:04:05 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

I currently have an original 71' OAI hood and although I don't have much
technical knowledge to offer, I would like to help!  I'll give you any
dimensions needed for cross reference, etc.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:10:31 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Thanks scott! Re: Parts for RC

Thanks anyway for checking Scott!  I appreciate it.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

==============================================================================

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, scott or sharon <jerdan@erols.com> wrote:
>
>RC Hellebuyck,
>
>I called to check on your parts request today and the guy, Gary, told me that
>he did not have either the exhaust manifold shroud or the cruise control
>parts.  Sorry I didn't get back with you sooner but between school and him
>away from his house it took till today to speak with him.
>
>Scott Jerdan
>70 W-30 442
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:22:11 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: W-455 Intake Nipple  HERE'S THE PART ª!!!!!!!

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Kevin Hoopingarner <khooping@bright.net> wrote:
>RC,
>
>
>I knew if I looked long and hard enough, I could come up with a part ª for
>your nipple.  The GM part number is 405143  (description NIPPLE, ventilation
>(steel-1 1/4").>>  <<I hope this helps.>>


Are you kidding?  Thank you, Thank you!  Between you and Brad, I might lick
this frustrating search yet!

Thanks for looking.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Appling <applingantiques@rocketmail.com>
Subject: remove from mailing list please

I had no idea i would be recieving over 100 pieces of mail a day.....
please remove me from the list that sends me all this stuff, but
please keep me on your mailing list concerning 1966 olds full size.

                            thank you
                            Bill Appling







_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:24:53 -0400
From: Joe Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: 455 Motors 4-Sale

AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com wrote:
>
> Will he sell just one and if so how $$. and where is he located again VA??
> How about a phone number. Or he can call me 516-593-9630 thanks joe
In Medina, Ohio..He wants to get rid oof all 3 and I am going to talk to
him this weekend to see if I can post his phone number..
                Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:37:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: net parts search

Would someone be so kind as to send me the web address of that place to look up
part ª's on the web?

I tried partsource, no help. Tried looking up "old car parts", nope, that's not
it. My bookmark is something like Parts Finder, refused to load after 10
minutes even. Finally did come back to it, but it didn't seem to work right.

Please send the info to my email account, not the list!

wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 20:52:29 EDT
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Drving experience

At 02:08 PM 9/17/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>A friend at work here has a husband that has built up a Ford Cobra
>(blower, etal...) and she gave me a ride in it today.  I must say
>that it didn't feel like my 442.  Don't get me wrong since this
>car really could move and do tight turns, however, my 442 feels/
>sounds better?!  It is hard to explain.  Needless to say when I get
>my 442 repaired, I will definitely give her a ride.
>
>Oh well....
>
>Why is it that Fords make a lot of sound and don't seem to be going
>anywhere?  This is one reason why I like Oldsmobiles, they run softly
>and carry a big stick (meaning that they are at speeds and you don't
>even realise it)
>
>Chris

    I have experienced the same feel verses different Olds's I've street
driven and track raced.  I have become convinced that the difference is the
result of a the right torque at the right RPM with the correct rear gear.
Olds has seemed to put this combination together with a good consistency
over a period of years.

    Glenn
    '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:07:30 -0400
From: "John Richmond" <richmond@tir.com>
Subject: Knocking sound that's intermittent

After I do a fast acceleration I get a knocking sound then it
goes away after a few miles.

Is this just lifters?

If so should I run something like Resoline through before
I change the oil?

John Richmond
richmond@tir.com
Warren, MI
72 442/455

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:20:44 -0400
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: Grey Ghost Saga Somewhat Solved

Well, MAXico rplyed back to me w/ this.  The mystery continues.  I sent
him t the 1957 chapter of OCA and the Olds history center.

- ---------------------------------------------------
Subject:  Re: 1957 "OLDS" grey ghost....
  Date:   Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:25:08 -0400 (EDT)
  From:   MAXiCO@aol.com
    To:   brad442@erols.com
  I owned two  Oldsmobiles in 1963 .... one was a super 88 2dht and the
other
a super 88 convertible, Both were 1957 models. Dark gray paint with red
interiors, all electric windows, J-2 engines, and automatic (very solid
)
transmissions. They were the two cars I could not race out of 73
oldsmobiles
I owned that year...I have never seen another one.... They had a gray
ghost
insignia on the front fender by the leading edge of the drivers door.. I
have
not been able to verify this, however I had a gentleman in Illinois had
one
but the numbers weren't factory....I am still looking and
interested............Thank you for your inquiry
                   MAXico @AOL.COM
- -----------------------------------------------------
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Official OCC Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:20:49 -0500
From: gilly24-7@juno.com (Gabe G Gilsrud)
Subject: [none]

Hello...
I am looking (not desperately) for interior parts, chrome fender trim,
and the plastic chrome bumper trim strips for a 1982 Cutlass Supreme.
Also, if anyone has the Vacuum Diagrams for a 1982 3.X Litre olds I would
like to get a copy of them.
Please take my word...I'm 17 and I need to get a real deal on these partz
if possible.

a parts location web site would also be of great help!!!

Thanx in advance...



"I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with,
but I know World War IV will be fought with rocks and sticks"
- -Gabe G. Gilsrud
Gilly24-7@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:38:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Douglas J Harkema" <harkema2@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Car restoration

I'm looking for some guidance on what to do first to my 70 convert.

Logically I would guess that you want all the mechanicals the way you want them
first.

Second: all body and paint

Third: Interior

Last: top


The car has 78,000 orig mi

The motor runs great (it's an oldsof course) 350 2bbl
I would eventually like to detail the engine compartment.  And put a hotter cam
in  Maybe build it to w31 specs.  Car is very presentable as is.  Needs work on
interior , Top , Paint to look really nice!

I guess I'm going to do a body on resto.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated?

Thanks
Doug H
70 CS conv't

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: 1972 production figures

i was wondering what the production figures on a 1972 cutlass 442 hardtop
that was a factory 4-speed car with a 350 motor.....not the 455. just
wondering.....thanks!!!!!

brent
1967 cutlass ragtop

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:47:16 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

J. Hoekendijk wrote:

> but it never
> occured to me that it's really "Vista-Cruiser" (hyphenated). Kind of funny
> they only used it in 1964.

Ahhh, but they didn't.  Vista-Cruiser was always hyphenated, at least in
the showroom brochures, right up through the last ones in '77.  Of
course, orally, the hyphen is silent. ;)

Paul

- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:00:08 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

 Although I'm not in the market for an OAI hood, the thought occurs to me
that one of the Detroit area "Prototype" shops might be a good place to
start. These guys specialize in low volume, low cost tooling for running off
small batches of complex shape parts. One of the shops I remember dealing
with years ago had made low cost tooling to run off 3000 units of a BMW
front end, (headlight openings, bumper area and front end spoilers in a
single piece of plastic or fiberglass). Usually these shops are really
versatile and used to making  low volume tools for all kinds of materials
and shapes. Some of them have capabilty of using a CMM (co-ordinate
measuring machine), to trace complex profiles with a special probe and
transmit the profile to CNC machines or to CAD programs to produce drawings.
Maybe one of the Detroit area guys knows of a shop.
Hust my 2cents.

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods



>WKBZZZZ@aol.com wrote:
>> I don't even own a
>> OAI hood right now to start taking dimensions from. Just offering to
help!
>>
>Actually, unless you don't have a hood at all, some of the dimensions
>are right there "under the hood".  Starting with the 71/72 hood would be
>more feasible, in my opinion, since the hood would fit many more cars
>than the 70 hood.  Not saying that the 70 hood should take a back seat
>by no means.  But there must be more 71/72s running around than there
>are 70s, by means of sheer numbers originally produced.
>
>The extreme front of the hood, where the grille openings are, and the
>slope of the hood along the fender lines from front to back, and the
>general width and length dimensions are all the same.  So some of the
>dimensions are already there, even using a steel hood.  I have an
>original fiber hood on mine that I can take dimensions on, but some of
>the curves and things, well, admittedly I'm not a geometry expert.  But
>before we start investing a grunch of time on this, there needs to be
>some serious commitments made to see this thing through.  I'm not a
>design expert, so I don't know if I'd be the right person to spearhead
>this type of project.  But I'm willing to provide input where I can, so
>I'm calling out for anyone interested in doing this project to come
>together and figure this out as far as feasibility.  Anything is
>possible, so it will end up an issue of cash flow.
>
>Another idea, and I'm not sure if anyone would submit their hood, is to
>contact a manufacturer willing to cradle-to-grave the project, get
>estimates for the job, then if the price is right, get an original hood
>delivered to the manufacturer, and let them go to work.
>
>The fact being, is to establish a number, say, 150 hoods, and then
>estimate from there.  Say, if it costs 100,000 to get 150 hoods made,
>then you are looking at around 667 per hood, and say, 90 for shipping to
>your door.  750 for a 'new' hood would be a good thing.  However, you
>must have 150 obligated orders to do this.  That means paid in advance.
>That also means when the project turns into a "GO", then the money
>better be there to pay the manufacturer, so there's gotta be some trust
>involved.  That's the tough part.
>
>Say for instance, if it costs 100K, and someone is designated to collect
>the cash (person who placed the order), the money better be there when
>it's time to pay.  Otherwise, there will be a lot of pissed off people,
>and the manufacturer will want their money anyway.  Records of who
>ordered hoods must be kept, and receipt vouchers must be given to people
>with the orders.  This way, someone can't say "I ordered a hood, where
>is it?" when in fact they didn't even order one.  Cost overruns must
>also be mailed to the people in advance, and invoice copies must be kept
>so people won't think they're being ripped off.  Refunds would be given
>only in the event the deal didn't go through.  Once production starts,
>you will get a hood.  This doesn't even include shipping prices.  A lot
>of things need to be considered here.
>
>When doing projects of this magnitude, there cannot be any "I'll sit
>back and wait until they're on the market" types.  You do that, and you
>won't get a hood.  Manufacturers are like anyone else.  They will do it
>for a price.  The more you order, the less per unit.  The objective is
>to meet or beat the price on the market of original used hoods.
>Otherwise we'll be peeing in the wind.  Of course, if there were 500
>people interested, then 300 commit, (you always will have attrition of
>the "me too's") then you could probably save even more.  The key is to
>do it in large of numbers as possible.
>
>The ideal candidate to spearhead this type of operation, would be to
>have a person who is knowlegeable about the hoods, has a car that the
>hood would go on, and lives nearby a fabrication shop that has the
>capabilities and willing to take on this type of work. This accomplishes
>a lot of things, like easier access to the facility, to monitor
>progress, and to trial fit a prototype hood on their car to see if it
>fits (end-user quality control).
>
>IMHO, I think it would be easier to contact a good fab outfit that has
>engineering support for design, and get a rough estimate for this type
>of work.  This way, we'll all have a good idea how much this will cost
>us.  Providing a sample would inherently be way easier for the
>manufacturer also, and more-than-likely have a suitable product right
>from the start.
>
>Keep in mind, this will not be cheap.  Any way it goes, it will not be
>cheap.  But if you really want a hood, and can't find one, then
>sometimes you have to bite the bullet.
>
>Again, Mike Blankenship, provide some feed back on your experience.
>
>Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:14:56 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 1902 curved dash info wanted

david wyatt wrote:

> He claims that 1902 was the only year to get the wire wheels.
> I am hoping someone can help with this mystery or at least point me in
> the right direction.

Here's what Dennis Casteele had to say in "The Cars of Oldsmobile"

1901 ...Wire wheels of twenty-eight inches were standard equipment...

1902 ...In 1902, some cars came equipped with the stager-spoked
"Midgely" wheels as factory equipment.  But for the most part wheels
continued to be of the spoked "bicycle" variety...

1903 ...Wire wheels were still available along with stagered wooden
spoked wheels and straight wood spoked wheels.  A few cars were even
built with a special type of cast steel wheels...

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:43:27 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: torque converter for 1972 455

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>

> Back in the hey days, they should have put the coolers on the cars in the
> first place.
>
Don't know about other years, but the 69 Cutlass could be had with an
aux trans cooler, optional of course.  Lists it in the assembly manual.
My dad also had one in his 69.  I only remember this because the cooler
sprang a leak in the driveway.  Trans fluid everywhere!  Sucked it
through the radiator and all over.  He was P.O.'d, and he disconnected
it and re-routed the cooler lines.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:55:51 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: net parts search

 Chris,
here it is.
http://www.partsvoice.com/

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
To: me from myself <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>; oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
<oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 7:48 PM
Subject: net parts search



>Would someone be so kind as to send me the web address of that place to
look up
>part ª's on the web?
>
>I tried partsource, no help. Tried looking up "old car parts", nope, that's
not
>it. My bookmark is something like Parts Finder, refused to load after 10
>minutes even. Finally did come back to it, but it didn't seem to work
right.
>
>Please send the info to my email account, not the list!
>
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>
>--
>Chris  B. Witt
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:52:54 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: I don't know much yet...

Adam Boeding wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike...   will do as you say.
> 350 Rocket 4barrrel carb.
> Green in color
> Single Exhaust for now.
> I'll have to check the VIN and look for the build sheet.  Unfortunately
> I've relocated to Austin, TX and haven't brought the car down from home
> yet.

You don't ever have to do what I say.  It sounds eerie.

Anyway, the single exhaust and the 350 give it away as NOT being an SX,
but look for the sqaure emblem with SX in it anyway, you never know.
This sounds like a rather neat car though, even though it doesn't have
SX equipment.  (With that quiet exhaust, I can hear that distinctive
TH350 "whine" build up and shift into second now.....)

If you can get those numbers, we can tell a lot more from it.
Regardless, it sounds like a keeper.  Based on other examples, low
miles, I would "guesstimate" a value of around $3500-4000.  Of course,
that's just guessing, since I haven't seen the car.

Keep us up to date, and if you need help, let us know.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:57:36 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure

>This is a weird one...
>My 70 442 doesn't have a constant oil pressure. ( I understand that at
>different RPM= different pressure)  Lets just say that the car is
>running at a constant RPM.  Initially, the pressure will be fine, and
>the car warms up.  After the car has warmed up, the pressure slowly
>begins to drop.  It gets to the point where the max pressure is the same
>as the idle pressure when first started.
>I think the oil is thinning out.  I run 10-W30.  The oil pump is new,
>and so is the sending unit.  Should I change to 20-W40?  What should I
>do?

While warm oil does thin out, the bearing clearances also open up as the
engine warms up, resulting in lower oil pressure. As long as the system is
above the minimum, you're still fine. The oil pressure sending unit is at
the "end of the line" of the oil galleys, so it's the last thing to see oil
pressure in the engine. I'd guess that the pressure at the pump output is
still the same as it is cold; since the pump is capable of more pressure
than the engine needs, the pressure relief valve bleeds off the excess
pressure at a predetermined point. If the oil pump is in good shape, it
should be able to pump out at least that much pressure, cold or hot, and
thus be feeding the block the certain minimum pressure. Since the oil flows
through lots of openings that get bigger when things heat up, and the oil
itself is heated up as it flows through these passages, the pressure is
lower at the end of the line.

This is normal. My just-rebuilt 403 puts out 45psi at a cold idle, but
30-35psi at a hot idle with Mobil 1 10W-30. With non-synthetic 10W-40, it
was about 5psi higher. Either way, as long as the engine is seeing the
minimum pressure it needs, you don't have to worry.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:57:42 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

>>      in all the experiance i have had in building fast cars i have never
>> heard anyone say that the th-400 is a better tranny.

Well, then, I'll say it now: the TH-400 is a better tranny. But, "better"
for me means more reliable for everyday use on the street. "Better" for
somebody else might mean it's 3/10ths of a second quicker through the
quarter-mile when sufficiently modified, in which case they'd consider the
TH-350 "better". For me, I'd gladly sacrifice 3/10ths at the track for
200,000 miles of trouble-free service (my latest TH-400 only needed a
rebuild after 18 years and 220,000 miles; I've had them go at 90,000 miles,
but that's when the previous owner had ran it low, and it took _five_quarts_
to even get to the bottom of the dipstick. Even then, I was able to drive it
to the tranny shop, though just barely). My latest TH-350 was getting
"reluctant" to go into reverse (it wouldn't go in at all until warm), after
only 90,000 miles, though it may have been due to abuse from a previous owner.

>stock anyway.  So build your TH350's for the track, and I'll take my
>stock TH400 on the street.  Longevity is what I'm looking for.  Have you

Good point, Mike. Both transmissions are world-class trannys (which is why
Rolls-Royce and Jaguar used the TH-400 in their cars; they couldn't build a
better one); either will suit any application, though the TH-400 is a better
starting point for longevity, since it's inherently stronger (bigger parts),
whereas the TH-350 is a better choice for quickness, since its rotating
parts are inherently lighter (smaller parts). Short of class racing, though,
I wouldn't bother to switch one for the other.

[snip]
>that the factory disappointed you about the frame holes.  Maybe they
>shouldn't have had the holes, but they're there if the car could have
>had either type of trans.  As for the crossmember movement, why not?
>Both my 69 H/O and 71 442 have different holes in the frame for exactly
>this purpose.  Once I put a TH400 in a 72 Cutlass origianally equipped

Even if the frame lacks the holes, they're easy enough to drill.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:57:40 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Engine Parts

>My 1964 Dynamic 88 Convertible is looking forward to having it's engine
>finally rebuilt, but I am having trouble locating kits for the rebuild.  It
>is feeling like the lonely stepchild that nobody wants.  It is starting to
>develop a complex because it is not as popular as the 442 or 330's.  Almost
>the same feelings of being the last one chosen in gym class.  Can somebody
>help me out, before I have to take her to the therapist.

Well, two sources, not necessarily the cheapest, would be:

Kanter Automotive (800) 526-1096  Complete rebuild kit for the 394= $975 
(ouch!)

U.S.A. Parts (703) 335-1935  Pistons alone run about $50/each; everything is
listed separately- no kit prices. But at least they sell the stuff.

Fusick Automotive Products (860) 623-1583 lists some parts like rings and
bearings, but engine parts are not their specialty; unlike USA Parts, I
don't think they could provide the equivalent of an engine kit, though my
catalog may be out of date.

I don't know if you'll find anything else in Hemmings, but it's worth a shot.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:57:45 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: All read! I don't know much yet...

>I wanted to draw attention to this post, because, IMHO this is the
>perfect example of what this list is here for.  I would venture to say
>that most of our members (no matter ~how~ knowledgeable they may be
>right now) could very easily have posted this exact same letter in the
>past.  I know this was me eight years ago.  This list wasn't here then,
>so I learned a bunch on my own and in school.  This list gave tons more
>info to that empty space between my ears, and I feel that I've really
>gained alot from being on here.  Adam (*and everyone else in the same
>situation*)  Welcome aboard, and don't feel dumb about asking "stupid"
>questions --  There's no such thing.  You came here to learn and have
>fun; just like the rest of us.

I just have to second everything that Charlie has to say. There's two ways
of learning: from your own mistakes, errr..., I mean *experience*, and from
the experience of others. I've learned a lot from my own experience, but
I've learned a lot more from the experiences that individuals here on the
list have had. For example, before I joined this list I knew my SX had "E"
heads, but I didn't know what that meant, and whether that meant they were
better or worse than "C", "D", "F" or "G" heads.

>P.S.  Sounds like you've got an excellent ride in the works!
>
>> > > When I was 14, now 22.  I inherited a 71 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop from
[snip]
>> > > must admit I am not as knowledgable as most of you.  I joined this list
>> > > serve to hopefully educate myself as I read the messages.

I'll also second that "excellent ride" remark (though I'm hardly impartial
about Supremes...). While you most likely have the 350, it could be had with
a 2-bbl (240hp gross/175hp net) or a 4-bbl (260hp gross/180hp net), with
either single or dual exhausts (add 20hp for the dual exhaust system). It's
a good thing you're starting out with a complete and stock car, as it's
sometimes hard to undo the "improvements" that a car has seen over the years.

As for the value of your car, it's climbing by the minute. The '70-'72
Cutlass/442/Cutlass Supreme cars are probably the most popular Olds cars
with collectors in terms of sheer numbers, which ironically makes them more
valuable. Your car could be worth anywhere from $1500-$8500, depending on
condition and who's writing the check. Unless it's a daily driver, you may
want to consider placing it under a classic car insurance policy, which will
cover you for an agreed-upon value, not the blue-book on it (which usually
values it as next-to-worthless).

Welcome to the list, and ask anything you like!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bowtie911@aol.com
Subject: 65 442 console

Just sign on. Need info on whether or not 65 442 - 4spd car had console as
standard or optional equipment. Need immediate help on this.

Harvey Shaw
bowtie911@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:11:35 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

Mikeytvb@aol.com wrote:
>
> do whatever you want to your car.  you don't have to listen to me.  i am only
> someone to give you a few words of advice.  and the th-350 with a 700hp
> motor, the tranny was professionally built.
>
Don't be sour dude!  We want to listen. But we also want to learn.  Just
telling us a TH350 is better for racing and not to use the TH400 if you
don't have to isn't what was being asked.  If you got some tips on what
was done to make that TH350 bullet-proof, there are plenty here that can
use that information.  It may have been the way it came across to me.
We may disagree on some points, but as long as we keep things that
pertain or can be used on Oldsmobiles here on the list, we can all
benefit.  For instance, why did the rear end explode?  Was it weak
gears, inherent problem with a certain rear gear or axle twist from
using a small axle?  Things like this we want to know.  If I came across
somewhat out-of-line, then I'm offering my hand in friendship, for we
all here on the list don't need personal opinion differences getting in
the way.  I admit I got a little ruffled when you mentioned that the GM
car frames shouldn't have had the holes to mount the TH400.  That was
personal, and I should have respected your opinion.  So, let's move on,
and share more experiences and knowledge with Oldsmobiles.  Got any
ideas to modify Olds engines?  Getting 700 hp out of an Olds will take
some doing though.  I think most of us could settle for 500 though.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:34:26 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Body bolt info

Charley Buehner wrote:
>

> Has anyone checked Summit?  I think some of their suspension companies
> were carrying polyurethane body mount sets.  They'd treat you better
> than most dealerships would, I'm sure...
> --
Charley!  What I'm talking about here is not the body mount bushings or
anything, I'm talking about is this:  what if you lose the special bolts
to the front fender you took off 3 months ago?  Or if you don't have the
barrel nuts to install the emblems on the trunk lid, what do you do?  Or
if you need a new push on clip for interior moldings, what do you do?
Or if the front lower J-clip nuts that the bolts go into that hold the
fender to the bottom of the cowl aren't J shaped anymore, where do you
go?  This company makes the same body clips and fasteners that were
originally used on the cars of old.  New cars too!

As for body bushing bolts and things, yes, companies like Summit have
those items.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:42:03 -0700
From: Erik Nowacki <enowacki@titan.com>
Subject: Re: Twin Batteries & Cold Weather Starting

I am having a hard time relating to this discussion.  I have never had any
problems starting my cars, even without block heaters, hairdryers or twin
batteries.  Even in the dead of winter, my 455 cranks over and starts right
away.

My recommendation would be to move south, until the problems go away.......
 :-)

I'm sitting here at work waiting for 5 PM to show up.

Erik Nowacki
San Diego
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:33:20 -0700
From: "Forrest Johnson" <johnson@edisongroup.com>
Subject: Re: Drving experience

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A friend at work here has a husband that has built up a Ford Cobra
> (blower, etal...) and she gave me a ride in it today.  I must say
> that it didn't feel like my 442.

Some of the experience of ride is a combination of all components
of the surrounding environment.  First, the Olds engines have a sound
and tone that NO other can compair.  That deep roar that overcomes
the silence is unmistakenly torque at it's best. Even at the track, when
an Olds crankes up with open headers, you can tell it's Olds by the deep
pounding thump.  Second, torque.  enough said.

I agree, none like an Olds to get the bloode pumping and the juices
flowing and that hold on buddy, we're in a real car now, feeling.

Forrest Johnson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:32:59 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: 1972 production figures

At 09:44 PM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i was wondering what the production figures on a 1972 cutlass 442 hardtop
>that was a factory 4-speed car with a 350 motor.....not the 455. just
>wondering.....thanks!!!!!
>
>brent
>1967 cutlass ragtop
>

Brent

        There is no breakout of the 350 or 455 cars with a stick. They do
list that a total of 1,252 442 (W-29) were made with the 4 spd.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:34:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: OAI Hoods

In a message dated 97-09-17 13:39:19 EDT, you write:

From Mike Roth,

<< Another idea, and I'm not sure if anyone would submit their hood, is to
 contact a manufacturer willing to cradle-to-grave the project, get
 estimates for the job, then if the price is right, get an original hood
 delivered to the manufacturer, and let them go to work.    >>

I think I'll add my 2 cents to this conversation,

Being a 2 part hood this is basically a 2 part manufacturing process.  The
fiberglass would represent the smallest investment regarding fabrication.  A
donor hood would be used to create a mold that would be used to create the
fiberglass portion which all hoods would be created from.  The 70 version
could utilize the same mold with a modification jig that would extend the
front section, or tonge.

The steel frame would require much more engineering as a die would have to be
produced to insert into a large press to punch out the stamping.  I know
people who work(ed) for the Bud Co. who punches out car parts for F*!rd.
 They might know what size range the press would have to be.

The 2 pieces then would have to be joined together.  Looking @ my hood this
looks like an epoxy type process.

Once assembled it would be up to the new owner of these hoods to make the
final fit to thier car.  From what I have heard Olds had to fit each hood to
the particular car.  This could be complicated and cause a lot of owner
frustration and disatisfaction by the consumer, and we all know about
consumer disatisfaction here.

Who knows what type of return rate one would have from a consumer who tried
to fit a hood to a car, shaving a little here and a little thier, only to
make the hood a usless piece of junk and at the same time looking for a
refund claiming a defective product.

Hope this hasn't been to grim.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
   71 442 W30 Conv.



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:53:52 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Drving experience

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A friend at work here has a husband that has built up a Ford Cobra
> (blower, etal...) and she gave me a ride in it today.  I must say
> that it didn't feel like my 442.  Don't get me wrong since this
> car really could move and do tight turns, however, my 442 feels/
> sounds better?!  It is hard to explain.  Needless to say when I get
> my 442 repaired, I will definitely give her a ride.
>
> Oh well....
>
> Why is it that Fords make a lot of sound and don't seem to be going
> anywhere?  This is one reason why I like Oldsmobiles, they run softly
> and carry a big stick (meaning that they are at speeds and you don't
> even realise it)
>
> Chris

Chris, it may have something to do with the fact GM built the
Cutlass/442 and Skylark/GS cars to be gentlemanly go fast rides.  Not as
much show as some of the other makes (even inside GM), but as quick in a
quiet way.

Don Sowers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:53:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine Swapout 76-->70 350

In a message dated 97-09-17 15:46:54 EDT, you write:

<< torque and horsepower.  it also had a 5000 stall converter in it(one fast
 car).

<<<< i agree with you in the fact that you have a 2000 stall converter that
 will fit both a th-350 and a th-400, but if you take a 2000 stall out of a
 th-350 and put it in a th-400 you will loose about 500 rpm's. >>>>




 mikey tvb@aol.com
 73 cutlass w/403 and th-350
  >>
Correct me if Im wrong, (and there are those who will) but the transmission
thats connected to the torque converter has no bearing whatso ever on the
converters ability to stall. A different engine with different power will
affect
the stall of the converter.  Your 5000 stall converter will perhaps stall at
5000
with the 700 hp but will stall at a lesser rpm on a stock motor. The small
Vega
converters do not stall at the same rpm on a stock Vega motor as they do
on a built BBC. In theory the converter could be connected to a building and
the only difference in stall would be the amount of power applied to it. So
then
whether it be a PowerSlide or a TH350/400 or R4 when the car is locked
from motion, powerbraked or what, the converter will not be affected by what
tranny is on that side of the converter.

However, it does take a few more horsepower to turn the output shaft of a
TH400 in comparison to the TH350, so in order to move the vehicle the engine
has to work "just a bit" harder. This should theoretically increase the
amount
of engine rpm in relation to the rpm of the drive shaft in the situation with
the
TH400 using the same drive train elsewhere...engine, rear, etc, being the
motor has to apply a few more horsepower to obtain the same result. Again
we are talking about a minimal amount( i believe its less than 15hp?) and
dont think its going to show much of a difference......TIM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:55:55 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: repro OAI hoods

At 01:07 PM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Rick Kromeich wrote:
>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that ASC&P in
>> Penn. had a fiberglass hood with the metal frame support.  This is the
>> company that I mentioned about a week ago that was retooling from a fire
>> and wasn't expecting to have them until March of next year. Jim Chermack
>> might be able to shed some more light on them, but when I called the co.,
>> I got the impression the hoods were going to be very nice and priced around
>> $500.00.  If that is correct, they should have a hot seller!
>>

For All

        I've seen the companies product. It's nice. They took both of the
different year hoods and made a mold of them and blueprinted them to get rid
of some of the flaws that were in them. The basic hood for $500 is an all
fiberglass design that has steel in the reinforcement areas needed. They
were the first company to offer a repro that functioned. The first ones
didn't even have the scoop holes cut out. As for making a hood with a steel
lower panel they will sell you a kit with instuctions on how to cut the
bottom out of a steel hood and transfer it to the OAI one. They supply the
air box, screen, fiberglass top panel and instuctions. You put the unit
together using Corvette panel adhiesive just like the factory did. Once
these hoods are put together you would be hard pressed to tell the
difference. They also work great with the original air cleaners or the
repros. The owner one time told me at Carlisle that they would put the steel
lower panels in their hoods for an extra cost. Still if is was $150.00 to
have them make the lower unit in steel rather than fiberglass it's a deal.
Hope this sheds some light on this company.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:59:19 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: (`80 Cutlass) My latest set of wheels.

Jason says his 'stable' would take up an entire digest - makes me feel better!

I'll still gladly admit those Impala SS's make me drool.  Now if Olds put
out a car like that - I'd probably find a way to buy one.

I can only drive one of mine at a time - haha.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:06:49 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Grey Ghost ?

Take a good look at the murals on Harley's - a friend at work was quoted
$3K for getting his painted  along these lines.  I'd check out the local
Hog hangout and they'd probably be able to steer you to a master in this
type of thing.  Sounds cool (I love different ideas).


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:08:53 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 72 Vista Cruiser, Re: 64 Vista-Cruiser

Well, I've got one of those darn '72's also.  I started out looking for the
'64-'67 vintage but never could find one that fit my standards & wallet.
When I found my '72 for $800 in such clean shape I couldn't say no.

I personally prefer the '68-'69 vintage the most but never found a
reasonable one of that year either.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass (Ruby)
'66 Toronado (LA Woman)
'67 Delta 88 Custom  (Tizzy)
'69 Toronado (Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser (VC)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª853
********************************
