
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, October 10 1997       Volume 01 : Number 896



Re: mcornea@F*RD.com
Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)
Re: The list people and their cars
Re: TH-200-4R's
Re: The list people and their cars
engineering question
try again
Re: Computers and trannies.
Re: Happy days are here again!
Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)
Re: Happy days are here again!
sad sight
Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket
PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale 
Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)
Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)
Re: Happy days are here again!
misc stuffs
Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!
Re: SB 42 signed
So Cal Show
Re: Valve cover question
Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?
AGAIN: Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?
Re: draft tube/winshield leak
Re: try again
Re: Valve cover question
Re: SB 42 signed
ADMIN: Attn: AOL Users
Re: Lansing Photos
Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)
Re: Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)
Re: Valve cover question
Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)
Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]
Re: 72 442 4-speed for sale
Re: 66 Olds
Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket
RE: misc stuffs
Re:Updates and Questions -Reply
Re: try again
Re: misc stuffs
324 breather tube / "OLDSMOBILE" valve covers
Re: engineering question
Re: try again
Re: engineering question
Re: misc stuffs
Re: 73 442
Re: Parts/motors for sale
Re: 72 442 4-speed for sale
Re: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re: Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mancinj@aol.com
Subject: Re: mcornea@F*RD.com

What??

mcornea@F*RD.com????  MUST be a coincidence.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:19:12 -0500
From: Flipper <phillil@redoak.heartland.net>
Subject: Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)

I am trying to find the proper information to remove the generator on my
1961 Olds Dynamic 88 and replace with a alternator with a self exciting
regulator.  Does anyone know of a good web site with the proper information.
I will rewire to new gauges if that is the only way, but would prefer to use
the stock "idiot" lights.  I need to know what wire to run from the back of
the alternator to the back of the generator light, and what other changes
MUST be done.  I have hand polished the alternator and used this on my 1948
GMC which was completely rewired by a friend of mine who is no longer in the
area to help.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Please send private
email, as the list doesn't need to be bogged down with more messages which
only apply to a specific year and make of vehicle.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:29:37 -0600 (MDT)
From: Steve Utick <sutick@mt.net>
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

Steve Utick
Helena, Montana
1971 442 Hardtop 4 Speed
	Lime Green with White stripes, OAI, Spoiler.  Second owner car
	with 56800 original miles on it.


- -------------------------
Steve Utick
From the Heart of MONTANA
sutick@mt.net
http://www.mt.net/~sutick
_________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:56:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: RISHIG@aol.com
Subject: Re: TH-200-4R's

About the 200-4R's how do you grand nationalize it ? What components do I
need and how do I get it? Any info would be greatly appreciated

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 19:16:04 -0700
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.)
White & Turquoise
Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame

Gary Andresen
Pleasanton, CA

Also own:
   '95 Blazer
   '95 BMW 525

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:43:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: engineering question

SO, I got to wondering just what the piston speed & acceleration figures look
like for the Olds motors... decided to calculate it out & plot 'em. I started
with the 455, then did the 350 and 425 motors too. The other motors are just
the same as these, but with different bores, so the piston speed & acc'n
characteristics would be the same.

What I found really interesting was the piston acceleration curve. I expected a
nice smooth sinusoidal curve, about equal distance below the axis as above.
However, that is NOT the case. Not at all. Indeed, the acceleration is higher
in the TDC neighborhood than it is in the BDC area by a factor of 2 or so, and
the acceleration actually has a virtually-flat stretch across BDC, from about
130 to 240 degrees into the cycle.

Just when I thought I had the why figured out, I explained it to my wife until
I got more confused than ever.

Neat how the accelerations at 5000 rpm are 100x those at 500 rpm. 800,000
in/s/s vs. 8,000 in/s/s...
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:47:16 -0700
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: try again

Ok, I'll try it again except in less words.  Are there any other key
numbers/clues on a '70 442 convertible that would tell me if it is the
original frame and body.  My VIN, Cowl tag and engine number match but I
have a gut feeling thay were dropped on a Cutlass body. 

Steven

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:03:31 -0400
From: Rich Inacker <rinacker@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Computers and trannies.

Just trying to clear up a few misconceptions here. All of the following
assumes we're talking about an early-mid 80s GM ECM (C3) that would be
found behind a 307.

>The computer in your car is designed to monitor and adjust various systems
>as the engine is running.

This is true. The ECM will monitor oxygen sensor output and, under certain
conditions, make changes to the block learn multiplier (BLM) values to
correct air/fuel ratio back to the target value stored in the chip. The BLM
values are stored in battery-backed RAM in the ECM. Think of the BLM as a
"fudge factor" to compensate for various conditions and correct the mixture.

>After you have been driving down the highway for a while the computer adjusts
>to your driving habits.

Not so much your habits as the prevailing environmental conditions, state
of engine tune, etc. It will do this anytime the conditions are met for
entering "learn mode", not just during highway driving. If the ECM
encounters persistently high (rich) or low (lean) O2 sensor values in spite
of it's attempts to adjust them back to nominal by varying the BLM (and
INT, which is like a short-term BLM) it will throw a code 44 (lean) or 45
(rich) and turn on the Service-Engine-Soon light.

>The ignition timing and/or mixture can be varied to produce optimum fuel
>mileage and/or performance.

The mixture can be varied, to attempt to attain the predetermined A/F ratio
stored in the chip, but in these ECMs the timing can only be retarded based
on knock sensor input. After the knock has subsided, the timing is added
back. This assumes that a knock sensor circuit is present, of course. :-)

Some of the later ECMs (OBD-IIs do, I'm pretty sure) have an adaptive spark
algorithm which will determine timing values, based on sensor input, and
store those values to ECM RAM.

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:04:06 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Happy days are here again!

>
>So I guess this would be a bad time to point out that there's
>a special socket for this, then?  :-)  Cost me only a few bucks
>at Trak Auto. Actually, since I probably won't need it again for
>a while, we could just mail it around to list members as each
>person needs it... it's big enough that you can stick a stamp on
>it and a mailing address, if you write neatly...  :-)
>
>Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
>Datalogics, Inc.
>101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282
>
>

I just bought one of these special sockets a couple days ago.  I plan on
changing the O2 on my cutlass this weekend if it will stop raining down here
in south Texas.  I have put 60,000 on the  car in the past three years and
havent changed it so I guess its time to.  I bought the sensor today.  This
looks like it could be fun.  I hope it will be fairly easy.

I will let everyone know how much fun it is when I get it done.


Clarence Wirtz
San Antonio Tx.
86 Cutlass, 4dr, 307:(  no power, great mpg25.7)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 22:18:35 -0700
From: "Forrest Johnson" <johnson@edisongroup.com>
Subject: Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)

> How about list members who are parents of, or are themselves, twins?
> 
> Lisa has a set, as does Hans apparently.  And so do I.
> 
> As the teacher in Ferris Bueller asks, "Anyone?  Anyone?"


I have twins.  One year old on Sat. Oct 11.
One boy (Forrest III) and one girl (Brianna)
and another on the way (yes, only one).
They are walking around, climbing on furniture
and just enjoying life...  What a thrill it
is to see these two smiles, even at 6:00 am.

Forrest
johnson@edisongroup.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 23:28:59 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Happy days are here again!

clarence wirtz wrote:

> havent changed it so I guess its time to.  I bought the sensor today.  This
> looks like it could be fun.  I hope it will be fairly easy.

Easy...fun?  It depends on your definition of fun.  Personally, I thought
it WAS fun, but to a real, full-fledged mechanic (not referring to your
level of skill, just mine :-), it would probably be mundane.  I thought
that I would look forward to replacing my spark plugs/wires, but I'll bet
those things are bummers to get out, seeing how hard it was to get at that
dumb O2 sensor.  I guess it's not THAT dumb, it did boost the power a
little ;-)

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:31:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: David1756@aol.com
Subject: sad sight

I was in Washington, D.C. today, it was a beautiful day, about 80 degrees, on
"I" Street NW near 15th street, I saw parked a gorgeous 1964 Olds 88
convertible, yellow, top down, perfect condition.

The sad part was it had a ticket in the windshield and a Colorado boot on the
front wheel.

Anyone on the list know this car?

David Wilk
still looking for a Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 23:24:27 -0400
From: "Eric T. Brubakken" <ebrubak@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket

Roland Klinger wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I have a problem which surely can only be answered by those specialists in
> this list and not by the people in the shop which overhauled my engine:
> 
> When my 56 Olds was finished I had it on the German Autobahn for about 1500
> miles to go to the German Olds Meeting. When running at about 60 mph the
> engine took about 1 Liter of Oil on 600 miles, which it blew somewhere at
> the rear end of the engine (at the cover between the heads under the intake
> manifold?).
> 
> I looked some pictures I have from the Rocket engine in old ads and found
> out, that there was a tube lacking at my engine at the rear side which goes
> down near the exhaust. I consider this tube to be something like a draft
> tube which in my opinion is supposed to create a vacuum in the engine when
> passing through the air or at least cut down too much pressure in the engine.
> The hole where this tube belongs was sealed by the shop with a freezing seal.
> 
> They say the tube never was there when I gave them the engine to restore
> and they say the tube isnīt of any importance.
> 
> Who is right? I think, when the tube was there, the engine wouldnīt blow
> oil and when it is NOT there and the hole is closed, thereīs no means the
> get the engine leakproof.
> 
> Of course, if the tube has to be there, Iīd appreciate any help in finding
> one.......
> (56 Rocket)
> 
> Thank you, Roland Klinger, Niederkassel, Germany
The tube you are refering to is designed to let the engine vent/breath. 
Its main purpose is to let the air inside/outside the engine equalize,
thereby NOT making your engine pump oil all over.  My family has been
involved with OLDS for many years and my Dad was an OLDS mechanic.  I
know exactly what the tube looks like, seen lots of them.  There is
something that looks like a can attached near the top of this tube where
it bolts to the engine block, it acts like a baffle to keep most of the
oil from passing out of the tube.  This tube then exits straight down
near the bottom of the oil pan.

There is a 56' 88 in a junk yard near here in Atlanta GA.  This Saturday
when I pick up another 455 from there, I will look to see if the tube on
the 56' is still there.  The engine is still in the car, although it is
missing heads, exhaust manifolds, intake manifold and one piston.  With
any luck the vent tube might be there.  

Anyway, get the shop that 'fixed' the motor to unplug the vent port and
fabricate something for it.

Eric Brubakken
67 Cutlass Supreme (Turnpike Crusier) orginal owner....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 23:37:47 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale 

                                        C&M Classic Parts
                                      1132 Chatmoss Drive
                                    Virginia Beach, VA 23464
                                         (757)474-0869 or
                                      <chermac@exis.net>
Hours:  Mon-Fri  6:00 pm - 10:00 pm, Sat 9:00 am - 6:00 pm, Sunday Closed
We accept all major Credit Cards. VISA, M/C, Amer. Express, and Discover.
New Parts: ____________________________________________________________________ 
63 Starfire Console (red, nice, no shifter, w/ Tach and nice shift lens) $375.00
66  400/425 "B" dash 1 heads (66 Big Block) Big Valves (bare) $250.00
(4) 70-75 Sport Steering Wheels (black, nice centers, complete)  $150.00 ea
66-69  4 spd Console Top Plate w/glove box top (good to nice cond) $55.00
68  8-Track Unit (housing cracked, needs plastic one)  $65.00
69-72  Bench Seat Headrests (black, mint)  $45.00 pr
67 442 Hood (mint)  $450.00
66-67 Reclining Pass Seat  $145.00
67 AM/FM Stereo (A-body)  $250.00
67 W-30 Core Support (Factory stamped, bent on drivers side)  $225.00
67 W-30 Track Pac Core Support (nice, cutouts)  $300.00
67 W-30 Inner Ducts (originals, mint)  $300.00 pr
68-69 Power Antenna Assm (no switch, has adapter, needs mast)  $35.00
68 AM Radio  $25.00
68-72 Rear Defrost  (no switch)  $30.00
68-72 2 Door Chassis (coupe, solid)  $300.00 (you arrange shipping or pickup)
70-72 C/S Quarter End Caps (nice) $40.00 pr
70-72 RH Door (Coupe/Conv)  $125.00
70-72 Auto Console (mint, black, rechromed plastic, w/shifter&cable)  $285.00
69-72 Column Shift Steering Column (plain)  $45.00
64-72 Power Window Motors  (excellent cond) $50.00 ea
71-72 Power Window Switches (nice)  $25.00 (4) button,  $10.00 singles
68-72 Power Steering setup  (complete)  $60.00
Bumper Bracket sets ALL years  $25.00 pr
70-72 455 Engine Mounts (NEW, made in USA)  $40.00 pr
68-72 350 Engine Mounts (NEW, Made in USA)  $38.00 pr


New Old Stock (N.O.S.) Parts for 1964-1972 Cutlass/442
_______________________________________________     
66-72 SSI Center Caps (N.O.S.) $36.50 ea                           
68-75 SSII/III Center Caps (N.O.S.) $36.50 ea                       
69 Cutlass RH Grilles (N.O.S.) $85.00 ea                             
70 Cutlass Supreme Grilles (N.O.S.)  $120.00 pr
70-72 LH Coupe/Conv Door Skin (N.O.S.)  $200.00
70-72 Cutlass/442 LH Fenders (N.O.S.) $495.00 ea               
71-72 Turn Signal Lens (N.O.S.)  $90.00 pr                          
71-72 Stone Shields (N.O.S.) $38.00 ea                              
71-72 Headlight Housings (plastic) (N.O.S.) $80.00 pr          
71-72 Cutlass Rear Bumpers (N.O.S.) $400.00 ea               
71-75  Cutlass Fender Emblems (N.O.S.)  $19.50 ea            
72 Cutlass Supreme & Hurst/Olds Grilles (N.O.S.)  $125.00 pr

Used Parts
_______________________________________________      
64 Cutlass/442                       
RH Headlight Bezel  $15.00                                                  
Front Bumper Core  $50.00                                                   
LH/RH Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea                                            
F-85 Fender Emblem (nice)  $5.00                                      
V-8 Emblem  $5.00                                                             

65 Cutlass/442
65 Cutlass/442 Wheelwell Moldings  $20.00 ea
65 Hood Molding (fair cond)  $10.00
65 425 111089 Distributor  $20.00

66 Cutlass/442
66  Cutlass/442 Side Chrome moldings (almost complete set) Inquire
66 442 Side Mount Tach (maroon, works, nice)  $245.00
66 F-85 Post Coupe Doors (very good cond)  $220.00 pr
66 F-85/Cutlass grille  (nice)  $55.00
66 F-85 Trunk Lid  (nice)  $120.00
66 330 cu in 2 bbl engine (complete w/trans, 17,000 original miles)  $300.00  
66 Cutlass/442 Hood Molding  (good cond)  $30.00
66-67 AM Radios (nice)  $30.00 ea
66-67 RH Hardtop Doors (very nice)  $130.00 ea
66/67 Repro Radio Delete Plates (perfect repro)  $40.00
66/67 Repro Heater Delete Plates  (perfect repro)  $40.00  ($78.00 set)
66 Cutlass/442 Full Turbine Hubcaps (very, very nice)  $230.00 set
Cutlass/442 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr
LH C/S Rear side molding  $10.00                                              
Post Coupe Exterior A-Pillar Chrome Moldings  $15.00 pr                        
F-85/Cutlass Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea                                  

67 Cutlass/442
67 442/Cutlass Hardtop Quarters (mint) $450.00 pr
66-67 Rear Side window lower U-seals (new, Metro Moulded)  $18.00 pr
67 400 442 intake manifolds #390390  $90.00 ea
67 Cutlass Fender Emblems (nice)  $10.00 ea
67 Plain Cutlass Fender Rockets (nice)  $5.50 ea
67 Rear Defrost setup (w/switch)  $55.00
66-67 AM Radios  (nice)  $30.00 ea
66-67 RH Hardtop/Conv Doors (very nice)  $130.00 ea
66/67 Repro Radio Delete Plates (perfect repro)  $40.00
66/67 Repro Heater Delete Plates  (perfect repro)  $40.00  ($78.00 set)
67 F-85 Rear Bumper (very good condition)  $75.00
67 442 Grille Bar  (nice)  $40.00
67 442 Hood (some rust)  $85.00
67 Front Bumper (straight, core)  $70.00
67 Cutlass Headlight Bezels (nice)  $65.00 pr
67 442 Trunk Lids (clean)  $130.00 ea
67 442 Pie Tin Decal  $5.00
67 442 Chrome Trunk Panel (excellent)  $135.00
67 442 Tail Light Bezels (some pitting)  $60.00 pr
67 RH Fender (small hole, straight)  $200.00

68 Cutlass/442
68 Hood Hinges  $55.00 pr 
68-69 Driver Side Remote Mirror (good)  $45.00
68-69 LH Quarter Panel  4 door (mint)  $225.00
68-69 RH Quarter Panel  4 door (mint)  $225.00
68-72 Cutlass S LH Rear Side Glass (clear)  $35.00              
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set                               
68 Cutlass/442 Std Horn Button (black, nice)  $7.00                     
68 Air Cleaner Stove Pipe (pipe only)  $10.00                              
68-72 Rear Hood Molding  $20.00 ea                                            
68-72 Cowl mouldings  $25.00 ea                                
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Set (black, mint) $27.50 pr 

69 Cutlass/442
69 Cruise Control Switch and Bezel  $25.00
69 Radiator Core Support 3 Row (mint, no rust holes)  $150.00
69 Tail Light Bezels (nice, pit free)  $165.00 pr
69 Trunk Lid (Conv, nice)  $250.00
69 Bucket Seats (black)  $50.00 pr
69 Headlight Bezels  $60.00 pr
69 Lower Dash (radio area)  (nice)  $45.00
69 C/S Side Moldings  $20.00 ea
68-69 Driver Side Remote Mirror (good)  $45.00
68-69 LH Quarter Panel 4 door (mint)  $225.00
68-69 RH Quarter Panel 4 door (mint)  $225.00
69 Cutlass/442 Doors (mint pair)  $300.00 pr / $160.00 ea
Hood Hinges  $50.00 pr                                                       
Hood Louver Chrome  $35.00 pr                                          
Hood Louver Moldiings  $35.00 pr                                        
Windshield Molding Sets  $65.00 set                                 
Rear Window Molding Sets  $85.00 set                                
69-72 Floor Shift Steering Column (very good)  $100.00
69 Cutlass/442 Front Bumper (good cond) $100.00
69 LH Top Fender Moldings (excellent) $35.00
69 LH Fender (tiny rust hole)  $250.00
69 RH Fender (small nickel sized hole)  $250.00
69 Rear Bumper (V05 rub strip) one small ding  $135.00
69 Front and Rear 4 Doors  (small dings, no rust) $75.00 ea
69 4 Door Panels (Gold, cloth, nice)  $40.00 ea

70 Cutlass/442
70-72 Wide Chrome window moldings (with sweepers)  $100.00 set
70 350 2 bbl engine (complete, 66,000 miles runs great)  $150.00
70 350 4 bbl Stick engine (complete, minus carb runs great)  $275.00
70 FLAT Fender RH (small metal patch panel installed nice)  $300.00 
70 Cutlass Supreme Door Panels (black mint) 4 for $100.00
70 Sport Mirrors (1 set left)  $155.00 set
70 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr
70 Cutlass Supreme Hood (excellent)  $125.00
70 442/SX/Rally 350 Rear Cutout Bumper (CORE)  $110.00
70-71 Halo Vinyl Top Molding sets no "L " moldings (mint) $55.00 set
70-72 455 Std. Iron intake manifold (auto cars)  $75.00
70-72 Std. Console Shift Lens  (repro)  $23.00 ea
70-72 Vista Cruiser Tailgate Switch Bezels  $5.00 ea             
70 RH Sport Mirror Shell  $40.00
70 F-85 Horn Button (cheap style wheel, excellent)  $10.00
70 Oldsmobile Options Folder  $5.00                                    
69-70 C/S Front Hood Rocket (nice)  $12.00                                
"S" Hood Chrome Vents  $35.00 pr                                        
"S" Hood Vent Moldings  $35.00 pr                                        
"S" Pillared Coupe Door Panels (good cond)  $40.00 pr         
Cutlass Rear Bumper Core  $100.00                                  
Black A/C Dash Pads  $120.00 ea                  
Gold Auto Shift Console  $90.00 (no shifter)                   
70-71 Glove Box Doors  $15.00 ea
70-72 RH Fender (has small patch panel)   $200.00                               
70 Cutlass 'S' Tail Light Lens   $10.00 ea
70 Cutlass Supreme Tail Light Lens  $15.00 ea
70 Cutlass Supreme Flat Hood   $125.00

71 Cutlass/442
71-72 Fender RH (small metal patch in bottom)  $250.00
71 Bucket Seats (need recovering, white, plastic rough)  $35.00 pr
71 C/S Door Panels (white w/pwr windows)  $40.00 pr
71-72 W-455 Aluminum intake ((2) 1/8th in repaired cracks) $675.00
71 350 4 bbl Engine (complete, carb to pan, runs excellent) $250.00
71 Cutlass Full Wheel Covers  $30.00 set
71-72 Sport Mirrors (excellent cond)  $110.00 pr 
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $38.00 pr                     
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
71 Front Rocket Emblem (nice)  $5.00
C/S LH/RH Side Glass  $25.00 ea 
71 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr

72 Cutlass/442
71-72 10 Bolt 2.56:1 (open rear)  $75.00
71-72 Sport Mirrors (excellent cond)  $100.00 pr 
72 Cutlass/442 Owners Manual  $7.00                                  
71-72 Cutlass S/442 Hood Louvers (nice)  $35.00 pr                     
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
72 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr            

We will be at the Eastern Virginia Oldsmobile Clubs Veteran's Day show in
Chesapeake, VA on the 8th of November, and at the AACA swapmeet on the 15th
of November in Chesapeake VA.

* Due to the rarity of some parts, we reserve the right to make market
adjustments on prices without notice.

Jim Chermack
OCA #24275

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 20:46:52 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)

What a thrill it
>is to see these two smiles, even at 6:00 am.

I love saying "want to start the Toro?" and watching them both run - even
better when I took the Cutlass down the back alley & had them in the car &
just got on it to see how it ran with *real* timing & it sucked us back in
the seat and Jays look of "wow".


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 20:44:56 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)

And so does Tim Churchill - how many sets is that now?  Is this possibly an
offshoot of the Toro virus :-)?


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:59:14 +0300
From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Subject: Re: Happy days are here again!

Jason wrote:
> hall) to try to change it...the engine was too hot Monday evening, besides,
> it was getting dark.  ANYWAY, I tried to get the thing out of there on
> Tuesday afternoon...with my Robo-Grip's.  I don't have a full tool-set in
I've been trying that myself, it's doomed to fail.

> Hmmm...10 bucks at both stores.  Woah, what's this?
It's limiting concurrence. Cartell if You want.

> grips and get that dumb open end wrench.  Got home, still too hot, la la
> la.  FINALLY!  Went down to the car about 3 hours later.  The exhaust
> manifold was just warm, not hot.  Woo-hoo!  Got my 7/8" wrench down there
> and lifted with all my might.  CRACK!  All right!  I cracked it loose.
The next thing to do would have been trying it while still HOT.

Anyway 'twas good thing that You got it out.

- -- 
x----------------------------------------------------x
x Anneli & Esko Ilola     mailto:esko.ilola@tele.fi  x
x                          phone:+358 2040 3439      x
x Oldsmobile 98 -64 4DHT  Holiday sports sedan       x
x "Where the action is...."                          x
x----------------------------------------------------x

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:22:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: misc stuffs

- --snip about 50 lines--
> You have my e-mail address wrong. It should be: bobby.etzel@gsc.gte.com
>
> 70 442 Escape Back to the....Past
Etzel, Bobby wrote:
...
- --snip about 50 lines--
> You have my e-mail address wrong. It should be: bobby.etzel@gsc.gte.com
>
> 70 442 Escape Back to the....Past
You left me out   bullets@sgi.net
...
- --snip about 50 lines--
> did i leave anyone's name out?
Brad Bowles
napa CA
=======================

I think it's time to personally strangle the next dozen thoughtless SOB's who
quote all 50 lines of the post just to add the "me too". That way we can
'enjoy' 4000 line digests instead of the scrawny 2000 line versions. And slug
thru them almost as fast as they arrive!
  Folks, get a grip, TRIM THE FAT PLEASE.
- -RS-

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:45:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: ted rollins <trollins@rfci.net>
Subject: 66 Olds

I' ve got a 66 olds cultass with a 330 engine. But I've never read on this
list site about a 330, is this a bastard motor??
- ------------------------------

Well, sort of. Try to buy parts like pistons or a cam, and they look at ya
funny. Gotta know where to look. Ask Lisa Madsen. The 330's a fine unit,
predecessor to the 350, same thing only different. Smaller bore. Forged crank-
350's are cast. Oh, and that bothersome 45 degree cam bank angle. That's the
most significant differences.
  As mentioned, strong unit, enjoy it.
- -RS-

==================
- --busted thingy on intake--
Thanks
Laura
66 Delta 88 aka Pook

Laura, that'd be your engine's temp sensor, w/o it, you have not HOT & COLD
lights. Replacement might be hard to find, try a really good looker-upper at a
good store like a NAPA store. If all else fails, I can provide a used one. You
can use an ordinary 1-terminal unit, just do w/o the COLD light.
- -RS-

- ------------------------------
From: Joe Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: 455 Intake/Manifolds.
I recently got a 455/4bbl intake, exhust manifolds and rocker covers for
$50 bucks. Not a bad deal. I was trying to figure out what they came off
of or if they are any good. Any help would be appreciated.

Intake, cast iron U by the filler neck, 410448  D1B  Y stamped on it and
a X stamped in the back.

[[That'd be about a '72 vintage, not a bad intake at all. pre-egr right?]]

Manifolds, I think the RH side one has GMY  1
                                       411961
                                       D2-319

Two openings on the LH side one. It has 288
                                        398704  YRH D6Y
Both have a single opening for the center two exhust openings.
- -------------
[[ 1st off, you have the LH & RH confused. LH & RH are as if you ARE the car. LH
is driver's side. In the U.S.... 2-holer is always on the RH side. Sounds like
you have the standard-issue #1-5 pair there. Yawn. OK to use. Worth about $10
if in good shape.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 20:53:45 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!

I will have to return the favor Hans and pop in at this cruise night.  It
is very neat to meet the people you talk to on the list and also always a
plus to talk about my favorite subject (Olds).

As i told you - whenever I get lumped in to the Starfire class I am lucky
to place 3rd after those beautiful (and restored) icons to the big car era.
 Since I will keep her original as long as possible, I'll only do better
then third amongst the Starfires when less of them show up!!!!  I took 1st
last year but I was in a different class.  

My biggest regret was not bringing the VC - I coulda taken that guy with
the gold colored stocker.  Oh well.

Thanks for mentioning Tizzy's day, she only gets out to about 3-4 shows a
year but this one is my favorite.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:01:37 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: SB 42 signed

How fitting that both Erick and I were discussing not being able to pass
smog this year!!


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 20:58:48 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: So Cal Show

>Nice show--altho I spent most of my time picking Jim Benoit's brain about his
>
>knockout, 4W disc, Ram Air W30 '68 442.
>
A couple shows back my ex-husband & originator of my Oldsmobility came to
see the cars and he & I got into this back and forth 'this one is better,
no this one is' over the two '69 4-4-2's that generally show up (both are
absolutely gorgeous) that went on for a good 45 minutes as we walked back &
forth between them.   


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser 

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 97 20:16:15 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Valve cover question

Brad asked:

Today at the wrecking yard there was a '72 Vista Cruiser with a 350 engine 
that had the valve covers with the raised "Oldsmobile" stamping.  Would 
these valve covers be correct for my 1970 442 W-30, or were they later than 
1970 ?
     
     No, unfortunately they are not correct for a 70.  This should not, 
     however, prevent you from installing them on your car if you like 
     their looks.  Unless you are striving for a 100 point restoration, the 
     valve covers bolt on and can be easily changed back to the original 
     ones at any time.  The stamped covers look especially good when 
     chromed (I've done this on a number of cars).
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:42:16 +0100
From: "J. Hoekendijk" <Hoekenj@apeldoorn.nl>
Subject: Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?

Hi all,

I was wondering who lives near Maricopa Arizona and is willing to do
me a favor, or two...
As you probably all know by now, I'm still looking for these 1964 Vista
Cruiser fenderscripts, along with some other small stuff.
Now I have located them! at:
     Hidden Valley Auto Parts Inc.
     21046 N. Rio Bravo Rd.
     Maricopa, Arizona 85239
Since I have some bad experiences with buying (and paying in advance)
parts that are supposed to be NOS and are definatally not, I would like it
a lot if someone would go there and have a look for me, also because
they're asking rather much....

Jim Hoekendijk, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista-Cruiser Custom HC

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:44:57 +0100
From: "J. Hoekendijk" <Hoekenj@apeldoorn.nl>
Subject: AGAIN: Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?

Hi all,

I was wondering who lives near Maricopa Arizona and is willing to do
me a favor, or two...
As you probably all know by now, I'm still looking for these 1964 Vista
Cruiser fenderscripts, along with some other small stuff.
Now I have located them! at:
     Hidden Valley Auto Parts Inc.
     21046 N. Rio Bravo Rd.
     Maricopa, Arizona 85239
Since I have some bad experiences with buying (and paying in advance)
parts that are supposed to be NOS and are definatally not, I would like it
a lot if someone would go there and have a look for me, also because
they're asking rather much....

Sorry for sending it for the second time, but you have to know that I'm in
the digest-mode, it's friday, I only get my mail during week-days (yes, at
work) and I live at the other side of the ocean. So don't be offended if it
takes me over the weekend to respond...

Jim Hoekendijk, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista-Cruiser Custom HC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Karamanos <jalkara@whidbey.net>
Subject: Re: draft tube/winshield leak

your 56 needs the draft tube as it did not come with pcv and the pressure
must go somewhere.

take off the trim and get some windshield sealent (black semi runny) from
a body supply shop, dont remember the #, 3m i think, made for sealing
already installed windshields, works much better than silastic, ie rtv

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:11:03 -0500
From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Subject: Re: try again

>  Are there any other key
> numbers/clues on a '70 442 convertible that would tell me if it is the
> original frame and body.  My VIN, Cowl tag and engine number match but I
> have a gut feeling thay were dropped on a Cutlass body.

Convertible frames have extra metal welded on them. Also there is a
number stamped on the frame rail on the driver side. That would tell you
if the frame is orginal.

Danny

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:14:19 -0500
From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Subject: Re: Valve cover question

On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Brad Otto wrote:
 Today at the wrecking yard there was a '72 Vista Cruiser with a 350
engine
 that had the valve covers with the raised "Oldsmobile" stamping.  Would
 these valve covers be correct for my 1970 442 W-30, or were they later
than
 1970 ?

The dreaded notched valve covers strike again. ALL A bodies with 455s
regardless of non power brakes and non ac cars had notched valve covers.
350s did not. 

Danny

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:06:08 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: SB 42 signed

Curtis Ratica wrote:

> Is this for real?  Is this for us folks in California?

As far as I know it is for real.  Yes California.

> Does this mean I can get my reg. without a smog test?

As I understand it yes but starting in 1998.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:47:07 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: Attn: AOL Users

Recently I have begun to receive some different sorts of bounces from
AOL accounts on here. In addition to the ever-popular "mailbox full" 
and "user unknown", recently AOL has been bouncing messages due to
users being "unavailable while we upgrade our system" or "unable to
accept mail attachments". 

The volume of these makes it necessary for me to be rather ruthless, 
so if you disappear from the list, one of these is probably the reason 
why. Sorry...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:29:59 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <3STICKS@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Re: Lansing Photos

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> I just picked up the roll of film that I shot at the list get-together in
> Lansing. Some not-bad shots of folks like Mark Prince and Mike Hall (the
> Street Rockets!), Mick Gillespie, Chris B. Witt, Bryceman (including the
> "Lansing or Bust" minivan he drove), Brad Nicholson, Tom Stoner, David
> Brown, Jeff Easton (he's a little fuzzy... must have been after my second
> beer!), the Handrenmobile, the Chermackmobile, the Sparkmobile, etc. A few
> others are lost in the recesses of my memory.  Anyhow, I have a second set
> of prints I could send someone if they are interested in scanning the and
> putting them on a web page. Any takers?
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

*************

GREG,

Send me the pictures, got the equipment, got multiple servers with
unlimited storage space available. Just let me know !

- -- 
                                                     
Bill !                                         

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \ 
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
     Oldsmobile 100th Centennial # 2218 /    | |_   /  / | |_      /  / 
                                       |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__ 
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34                   |_|         |_|   |_______|
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34
                                              
* * * * * * * * *
* COMMING  SOON * ----------> 3STICKS.com
* * * * * * * * *

        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 9/1/97)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:54:50 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)

> I love saying "want to start the Toro?" and watching them both run - even
> better when I took the Cutlass down the back alley & had them in the car &
> just got on it to see how it ran with *real* timing & it sucked us back in
> the seat and Jays look of "wow".
> 
> 
> Lisa Madsen

It's funny how they're tastes are different, too.  Michael has definitely
inherited the car 'bug' -- literally his first spoken word was 'car'.
He probably has close to a hundred matchbox, hot wheels, etc already, and
plays with 'em all.  Helen plays with cars sometimes with Mikey, but she's
not nearly as enthused.

HOWEVER, her favorite car of our little fleet is the Cutlass.  Some of
this may be due to the fact that she says her favorite color is red, but
she has said on numerous occasions that she "is going to get a red top-down
car, just like Daddy's, when I'm big!"  Does a parent proud.

Michael (sigh) prefers our Caddy.  And his favorite car is (hanging head
in shame) the forest green 'Vette owned by a neighbor up the street.

Hmmm, maybe if I get a Toro like Lisa, I can make him see the light...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:05:58 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)

> I am trying to find the proper information to remove the generator on my
> 1961 Olds Dynamic 88 and replace with a alternator with a self exciting
> regulator.  Does anyone know of a good web site with the proper information.

try these

http://www.kanter.com

or

http://www.smothers.com

(smothers deals in Hard to Find Parts from 55 on up)

- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:27:53 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: Valve cover question

>Today at the wrecking yard there was a '72 Vista Cruiser with a 350 engine
>that had the valve covers with the raised "Oldsmobile" stamping.  Would
>these valve covers be correct for my 1970 442 W-30, or were they later than
>1970 ?


Hi Brad,

I know those "stamped" valve covers are at least 1973 or later.  I seriously 
looked at a 1973 H/O (all stock).  It too had these type of covers.  Might 
be worth picking up even if you don't want to put the on your car.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:15:45 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Olds & Twins (WAS Re: Lisa's Tizzy take's the Bronze!)

 There are very few things better than an Oldsmobile, but this is definitely
one of them.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama



>I have twins.  One year old on Sat. Oct 11.
>One boy (Forrest III) and one girl (Brianna)
>and another on the way (yes, only one).
>They are walking around, climbing on furniture
>and just enjoying life...  What a thrill it
>is to see these two smiles, even at 6:00 am.
>
>Forrest
>johnson@edisongroup.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:00:54 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]

>...now...where can I locate some 68 to 72 
>convertible rear door panels.....hmmmmmmmm.....Hoagie

If you're talking about the interior vinyl panels, I believe these are
available reproduction from some of the larger suppliers, i.e. Year One,
Fusick, Paddock, etc. I'm imagining that they're likely made by the same
company, but sold through these different outlets, as the applications
listed by each company are virtually identical.

Anyone have any experience with the quality of these panels? I'll be
redoing the entire interior of my SX (probably in black, though I'm open to
suggestions), and will be purchasing new surface vinyl all around.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:04:55 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 72 442 4-speed for sale

>1972 4-speed for sale. rare car only about 1500 built. needs interior and
>body work along with the engine being put back in. car is not drivable. will
>need to be trailered. car is in the cleveland,ohio area. $1500 OBO if
>interested let me know.

Wow. Thank God that this car is in Cleveland, and I'm in Rhode Island, or
else my wife and I'd be having a big fight about me adding yet *another*
car to our driveway... ;)

I usually don't like the grilles of the '71-'72 Cutlasses, but the 442
grilles of these years are really smooth, and some of my favorites. AND
it's a 4-speed... <drool>

Well, I hope somebody on this list who's been hankering for an early 442
will buy into this one; I'd at least like to see _somebody_ here enjoying
the car that I can't!
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:12:26 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 66 Olds

>I was wondering the same thing. Actually the 350 should produce more torque
>than a 330 because it has more surface area on the top of the piston to push
>it down. 

Actually, I don't think that the surface area of the piston has anything to
do with the increase in power; the fact that each cylinder on the 350 is
inhaling approximately 2.5 cubic inches more of air/fuel mixture every
other revolution means that there is that much more energy twisting that
crank. The power characteristics (Torque and hp curves) of two
identical-sized engines running at the same efficiency will be different if
one is big-bore/short-stroke and the other is small-bore/long-stroke, but
as far as the actual measured power output, they would be nearly the same
in peak or average hp.

>I doubt the cam bank angle would have any effect on power output.

No, the valves don't know the difference, as they just do what the tip of
the rocker arm tells them to do; any differences in friction due to pushrod
angles would be negligible.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:45:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: J2ROCKET@aol.com
Subject: Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket

   Hello Roland,   You are correct about your road draft tube on your 56 olds
engine. Back in the days before positive crankcase ventilation came along,
all engines had road draft tube ventilation. On oldsmobile early rocket
engines, as most all others of the era, there was a baffle can (oil
seperator) in the rear of the eng block just below the valley pan cover that
connects to a steel tubing. This formed tubing goes down the right rear of
the eng. block and ends up hanging down in the airstream under the car. The
end of any road draft tube was always cut off at a 45 degree angle with the
longer portion of the tube always facing the front of the vehicle. The
purpose of the angle cut is so that the car is at road speed a suction is
formed at the end of the tube causing a vacumn cleaning effect on all the
blowby gases and byproducts of  combustion that normally form in all engines.
The other part of this system is simply the oil filler breather type cap on
top of your eng. This cap must be clean and be able to take in fresh filtered
air into the cranckcase. So the air enters at the breather cap and is drawn
out by suction at road speeds. The shop is certainly wrong when they say the
tube is not of any importance!!! This the only means of venting your eng!!!
You must get that soft plug that they drove into the eng. out of there and
get the proper tube for it, or fabricate one to work untill you get an
original one. You will need to inspect closely for any gasket or seal oil
leaks that have been caused already fron driving without this system. It will
most likely be allright. Most of the crankcase pressure was probably going
reverse flow out the oil filler cap. This is an all to often mistake made
today on yesterdays cars by technitians not understanding how road draft
system venting works. Hope this helps you out.            J2 ROCKET
                 57 OLDS SUPER 88 (J2 ENGINE)     & 55 OLDS SUPER 88

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:54:37 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: RE: misc stuffs

On Friday, October 10, 1997 12:23 AM, Chris Brown Witt
[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu] wrote:
>> 
> I think it's time to personally strangle the next dozen thoughtless
SOB's who
> quote all 50 lines of the post just to add the "me too". 


Chris, I am offended that you thing I am a "thoughtless SOB". Most of my
post are trimmed of the fat, but not doing it does not make me a SOB.
Even you being so inconsiderate of the feelings of other member's of the
list does not make you a SOB. 

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the...Past

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:05:34 -0500
From: "LAURA D. STEINKE" <WPODOM1.HORT-FOREST.LSTEINKE@taexgw.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re:Updates and Questions -Reply

>It's a temperature controlled switch of some sort, I guess.

Good, now I know what to order :)  

>Was this engine a '66?

No, apparently someone changed out the engine at some point in it's life.  I
looked yesterday armed with part of the FAQ for ID-ing the engine and
the tranny.  The engine is one of the common 455's produced 68-72...And
I want to thank whomever posted how to quick ID a 350 vs 400 tranny (I
had to look at the map to remember what Illinois looked like though <grin>).
 I wasn't looking forward to inching under the car and looking for numbers
to id it - which was a good thing as it turned out the clearance was too
low to do more than take a peek at it from the side.  The result, it looks like
Illinois to me so I guess it's a 400 <grin>  Though as soon as I *can* get
under it I'll start looking for the numbers just to make sure.

>Were there any vacuum ports on it as well?

Nope, though I looked again yesterday...it has only the two wires that
connect to the part that's broken 

>With two connections on it, though, it would have to be one of the older
>ones for operating a COLD light as well as a HOT light.

Yes, that may be it since I do have a hot and a cold light.

>> where it collects inside the door
>That's unusual.

I belive that is the worst door, I can usually open the door and swing it a
few times to force most of the water out (you can usually hear it
sloshing)

> Lie on the ground outside the car and check the underside of the door;
>there should be a few slots or drain holes there.

I'll check this after work today, assuming is isn't raining...again

>Also, the inside of the door panel should have some sort of tarpaper or
>plastic weathershield to protect the back of the interior panel from
>moisture.

It did, I'm sure it *was* tarpaper...unfortunatly it looks more like plain
brown paper now.  It's also rotted through most of the bottom half of it
because of the water sitting inside the doors.

>The weathershield normally tucks into the door at the bottom, through
>either the bottom-most access holes in the door or its own little slots
>below the access holes,

Well someone messed up on mine ;)  The paper looked like it was cut to
match the frame/door support and then glued/affixed somehow in place
on top of the frame, then the panel was put on.  It wasn't tucked in or
even glued to the inside of the door....

Soon as I get that temperature sensor fixed I plan on taking it for a nice
long drive because the engine is *finally* broken in...now where to drive it
to <grin>

Thanks
Laura

66 Delta 88 aka Pook

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:12:42 -0500
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: Re: try again

Thanks for your response, can you be more specific to where the extra
metal is welded and is the frame number on the inside of frame,
underside or outside?  I looked and didn't see a thing, though I know
how hard it is to find these things until you see it the first time.

Steven

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:16:21 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

Etzel, Bobby wrote:

> Chris, I am offended that you thing I am a "thoughtless SOB". Most of my
> post are trimmed of the fat, but not doing it does not make me a SOB.
> Even you being so inconsiderate of the feelings of other member's of the
> list does not make you a SOB.

What, is it the end of the car show season...is that why everyone's so
tense?  There have been a lot of posts recently regarding the length,
content of the posts on the list.  There was one a couple of days back
saying not to give opinions, just facts.  Now, Chris's post which spawned
Bobby's comment.  I think the list is a wonderful thing that is provided
for us to use.  Regarding the first post I mentioned.  Aren't opinions the
reason why we are on this list in the first place?  If this list was only
open to factual, confirmable statements, it would be a pretty bleak place. 
If I wanted facts, I could get a book.  Sure, answers are what we are
looking for, but dialog and conversational input are essential to the
making of a pleasant email list.  If someone asked the color of a
particular engine, and somebody else replyed just "Blue", that would be
pretty bland.  The stories and personal experiences are what make the list
an interesting place to be!  Regarding Chris's SOB post, that was kinda
harsh.  I don't think any person should be referred to as a SOB, especially
not by another adult!  I just think the list is pretty agressive lately,
that's all.  If everyone took a more passive approach to the list and toned
down their disagreements, it would make for a better community.

Yeah, yeah, I'll get off the stage.  Ow!  Alright, I'm goin!  Watch where
you're puttin that--Oww!
- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:19:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: FSN6998@aol.com
Subject: 324 breather tube / "OLDSMOBILE" valve covers

Roland,  If the tube you are referring to is the one I am thinking of, yes
you need it on your 324.  The 324 did not have a PCV (positive crank case
ventilation) system.  That tube was  there to prevent excessive crank case
pressure.  


The "OLDSMOBILE" valve covers were factory equipment on '73 only to the best
of my knowledge.

Fred Nissen
FSN6998@AOL.COM
1969 98 Convertible 455, TH400
1977 Delta 88 Town Sedan 403, TH350
1977 98 Regency  Coupe 403, TH 400
1978 Delta 88 Royale Coupe 350, TH 350
1979 98 LS Coupe 403, TH 400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: engineering question

In a message dated 97-10-10 07:54:30 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Just when I thought I had the why figured out, I explained it to my wife
until
 I got more confused than ever.
 
 Neat how the accelerations at 5000 rpm are 100x those at 500 rpm. 800,000
 in/s/s vs. 8,000 in/s/s...
 --
 Chris  B. Witt
 *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
 wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
  >>
AAHHH, Chris wouldnt that be 10x??

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:22:42 -0400
From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Subject: Re: try again

The frame numbers are on the drivers side frame about 6 inches from were the 
frame turns in toward the front tire.  The numbers are almost dead center of
the frame on the outside.  The numbers are also larger than the stamping on 
the block and transmission, but still the same type of sequence.  
3-oldsmobile 0-year M-plant 123456-sequence number. 30m123456

Mike
66 442
70 442
70 442 W30
71 442 Convt




Thanks for your response, can you be more specific to where the extra
metal is welded and is the frame number on the inside of frame,
underside or outside?  I looked and didn't see a thing, though I know
how hard it is to find these things until you see it the first time.

Steven

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:36:57 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: engineering question

Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:

>  Neat how the accelerations at 5000 rpm are 100x those at 500 rpm. 800,000
>  in/s/s vs. 8,000 in/s/s...
> AAHHH, Chris wouldnt that be 10x??

According to his numbers there, 8,000 X 100 = 800,000.

Why would it only be 10x?

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:42:10 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

To quote Rodney King:

"Can't we all just get along"

Chris Sparsk

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:44:01 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: 73 442

Hi all,

I saw a 1973 442 on my travels the other day.  The guy may be selling
it.  All I know is that it has dual exhausts and a 350.  Can anyone 
offer any more information about this type of 442?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:05:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daily73@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parts/motors for sale

 I don't know. What does a power seat rack go for? What else were you
interested in?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: Re: 72 442 4-speed for sale

In a message dated 97-10-10 04:05:25 EDT, you write:

<< Gives us more info. Engine, interior, colour...etc Would be nice to know
>>

the car comes with black buckets. it is missing the 4-speed consle. the car
is red. it was originally a 350 car but the car comes with an uninstalled
455. car is not drivable, must be trailered. $1500 OBO, remember this is a
4-SPEED CAR, only around 1,500 of these cars WERE BUILT. reply privatley for
phone number.

brent

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:33:42 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels 

> Anyone have any experience with the quality of these panels? I'll be
> redoing the entire interior of my SX (probably in black, though I'm open
to
> suggestions), and will be purchasing new surface vinyl all around.
> _______________________________________________________

 	Rocketeers,
		I recently replaced interiors in my 67' 442 (clone) and my
	brothers 71' Delorean (clone). Anyone with questions can EMAIL
	me direct.


				The General

	PS  this is my method list conservation.....

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1997 09:26:01 -0700
From: "Mike Gardner" <Mike_Gardner@latgqmg.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?

                      RE>Who lives near Maricopa, Arizona?         10/10/97

Jim,
Hello from sunny Arizona.  I called Butch at Hidden Valley Auto Parts and
arranged for me to have a look at the parts Saturday morning, Oct.11.  I'll
let you know how they look.  By the way, I and a co-worker originally from
Finland, would like to know how an older American car ends up in Europe.  How
did you come by it?
Mike Gardner
'70 455 Delta 88 conv.

- --------------------------------------
Date: 10/9/97 10:44 PM
To: Mike Gardner
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Hi all,

I was wondering who lives near Maricopa Arizona and is willing to do
me a favor, or two...
As you probably all know by now, I'm still looking for these 1964 Vista
Cruiser fenderscripts, along with some other small stuff.
Now I have located them! at:
     Hidden Valley Auto Parts Inc.
     21046 N. Rio Bravo Rd.
     Maricopa, Arizona 85239
Since I have some bad experiences with buying (and paying in advance)
parts that are supposed to be NOS and are definatally not, I would like it
a lot if someone would go there and have a look for me, also because
they're asking rather much....

Jim Hoekendijk, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
1964 F-85 Cutlass Vista-Cruiser Custom HC

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #896
********************************

