To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #837


oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, September 7 1997      Volume 01 : Number 837



Re: cams, carbs, and heads?
Re: Carburetor number
Re: Olds delta 88 royale town sedan 1976 (help)
Re: 69 H/O Fire Frost paint-coming soon to a paint store near you!
Car ID-Numbers
'69 H/O convertible at Lansing
UNBOUNCE: '69 H/O convertible at Lansing
Re: RE:Drum brake problem
Questions
Re: advice on purchasing '70 442
RE: Paints in '70
Re: Quadra Qs...
insurance
Parts?
Parts Information
Re: Delta 88 road-ready
Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)
Olds Club of America Web Page
9/13/97: Olds Cruise Nite - Maryland
Re: advice on purchasing '70 442
Re: advice on purchasing '70 442
Parts needed
Oldsmobile Shows (OCA Chapters) UPDATED !!!
Console/Dual Gate
Re: 70 Rallye Info Needed!!!
Re: Plastic Chrome
Re: Console/Dual Gate
UNBOUNCE: insurance
Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge
Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge
Engine tuning
Re: Engine tuning
Re: Engine tuning
Re: Engine tuning
Toro part wanted
RE: Toro part wanted
71 Olds
Re: Brake Problems
Re: 8 Track player question
Re: Plastic Chrome
Re: Questions
Re: Olds Club of America Web Page
Re: NAOC (long-not any more)
Re: Console/Dual Gate
Re: Pertronix vs HEI
Re: NAOC (long-not any more)
Re: Car ID-Numbers
Re: Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)
Re: Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)
Re: Re[2]: NAOC (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:12:31 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: cams, carbs, and heads?

>i own a 73 cutlass w/403 from a 78 olds.  i was looking for a good camshaft
>for this engine.  the kind i want is a high lift, high duration , and a good
>top end cam.  does anybody know of any place that sells these cams for under
>$100?  does anybody have any good or bad imput about carter carbs?  i was
>thinking about putting a set of 350 heads on my 403, will this give me any
>more HP?  if not, what will it give me?

Cam: Look for something with around .450"-.500" lift, and 205'-220' duration
@.050", with more of both on the exhaust than on the intake. But be aware
that this will move your powerband up in the rev range, so unless you also
swap gears you'll have a good top-ender that won't be as much fun on the
street as it could be. Olds Parts USA sells a "High Performance" 425 and 455
cam for $93.46 (I'm assuming it's some factory grind), but don't skimp $20
on the cam; you can get a JM18-20 cam for $120. More importantly, you should
worry about replacing the timing set, and getting the new cam degreed in
properly.

Carter Carbs: People like them, they work. Square-bore carbs will not fit on
the factory manifold without an adapter/spacer.

350 Heads: Not just any 350 heads, but a set of '68-'72 heads. They will
raise compression, and allow your engine to make more power. Use the 2.00"
intakes from your 403. Ream the head bolt holes for the 403's 1/2" head
bolts. You'll have to use premium gas, and perhaps recurve your distributor.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:12:35 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Carburetor number

>Re: Carburetor number
>>From the '71 chassis service manual:
>
>350
>2 Bbl
>V-8
>
>Net SAE HP160@
>4000

>Interesting that you stated above the '72 350-2V was rated at 175hp
>which is 15hp more than the '71!  Who says the factory didn't play with
>the numbers???

Hmmm, maybe the bigger exhaust valves on the '72's did boost power after
all! The '71 definitely had the smaller exhaust valves, but the same-sized
intake valves.

Oh, and I checked the carb ª for the '72 350 2-bbl: it is indeed 7042156.
The only difference from the '71 version would be the leaner main jet, a
"51" rather than a "54", which was used in the 2-bbl carb for manual
transmission applications in both years (carb ªs 7041155 and 7042155). I'm
sure this is really more than you wanted to know...  ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:12:37 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Olds delta 88 royale town sedan 1976 (help)

>I am restorating one overhere in Holland and I have so far, in about 1
>year, the information that there where made 33000 off them and the
>information you gave me.

Well, since you are pretty much on your own over there, your first
investment should be in a Factory Shop Manual for 1976 Oldsmobiles. That
will have all the information you need to know for making mechanical repairs
to your car (engine, transmission, axle, suspension, accessories,
electrical, etc...). It is expensive to begin with ($65-$90 US), but pays
for itself over and over again.

>It would sure help me if you could send me the technical information about
>the car with a standard 350 engine!

1976 was the last year of the "non-lightened" Olds V-8's; in 1977 and later,
Olds reduced the amount of metal in the blocks, and therefore the strength
of the engine. Your car's engine should have an "8" cast into the lower-left
corner of the cylinder heads. Emissions controls will probably depend upon
whether your car was a US model exported to Holland later, or an export
model originally designed to be sold outside the US.

If yours was anything like the US spec motor, it would have a 4-bbl
Rochester Quadrajet carburetor, 8.50:1 compression ratio, .400" lift
camshaft with hydraulic lifters, a single exhaust, a High Energy Ignition
(HEI) system, and put out 170 horsepower @ 3800rpm and 275 foot/pounds of
torque @ 2400rpm. It has a cylinder bore of 4.057", and a stroke of 3.385"
(as did all Olds 350's), and it's important to remember that the Oldsmobile
350 is a completely different engine design than the Chevy 350, the Pontiac
350 or the Buick 350; it's from the days when each division designed its own
motors, and no parts interchange between these motors (except, perhaps, the
distributor cap and rotor). You should find the tuneup specifications on a
sticker on the fan shroud in the front of the engine compartment; if that's
missing, it probably should have the ignition timing set at 20'BTC, with a
.080" sparkplug gap. That's just some general information; what specifically
are you looking for?

A couple other bits of information you could supply us with would be the
numbers and letters from the "data plate", a rectangular sheetmetal plate
found riveted to the firewall in the engine compartment, right in front of
the driver (probably somewhere bewteen the base of the windshield and the
power brake booster). People on this list can tell you what the codes on it
mean (where it was assembled, when, original color, some accessories, etc.).
Also, the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) found under the windshield
glass in front of the driver (Visible from the outside); someone can decode
that for you as well.

There are a lot of '71-'76 Delta 88 owners on this list who are very
knowledgeable, and who could probably give you help with any problem you face.

Good Luck! Gee, now we've got list members from Holland, Sweden, Finland,
Germany, England, India, New Zealand and Indonesia (and probably some other
places I've forgotten). Should rename this the "International Oldsmobile
List", Greg!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 05:21:22 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Fire Frost paint-coming soon to a paint store near you!

Peg O'Connor wrote:
>
> Hi all --
>
> Read the bit about Fire Frost with interest.  Is this stuff reflective?
> When Drew (Senko) and I were driving around Lansing one night, we noticed
> that the stripes on some H/O's lit up when the headlights hit them.
> Is this the Fire Frost?
>
No. Sorry. You are probably thinking of the later year models with the
3-M reflective stripes.  They are pretty cool aren't they?  H/Os even
stand out at night, too!  The Fire Frost was 69 only, and irridescent.
It does, however, glitter in the sun unlike most other paints.  Some
people claim there's "real" gold in it.  I've yet to find any real gold
in what's left of my original paint.  The color is a yellowish-gold,
kinda sparkly, with just a HINT of green tint.  I'm not sure, but I
think the Hurst Poncho in 1970 may have used the same stripe paint.

Mike Rothe

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:32:29 +0200
From: "archy van wely" <usicon@pi.net>
Subject: Car ID-Numbers

I wonder if anyone could decypher the Id-numbers from my olds I am
restaurating overhere in Holland?
The numbers are:
chassis nr. 3n69r6m245217
Code 76oldsl10605217.
I hope anyone can help me>
Thanks anyway and greetings from Holland.
 Archy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:50:29 -0400
From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Subject: '69 H/O convertible at Lansing

Hey, everyone,

Forgive the tardiness here, *I got bounced ª@%^&@@! for some reason*....

Did anyone get the background of the '69 H/O convertible that was at
Lansing? I know there supposedly were only 2 or 3 built....curious if this
one was a clone or if it was originally George Hurst's or Linda Vaughn's
car.  I didn't get a chance to talk to the owner.  Gorgeous car in any event!


Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:38:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: '69 H/O convertible at Lansing

Forwarding a bouncer...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:50:29 -0400
From:evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Subject: '69 H/O convertible at Lansing

Hey, everyone,

Forgive the tardiness here, *I got bounced ª@%^&@@! for some reason*....

Did anyone get the background of the '69 H/O convertible that was at
Lansing? I know there supposedly were only 2 or 3 built....curious if this
one was a clone or if it was originally George Hurst's or Linda Vaughn's
car.  I didn't get a chance to talk to the owner.  Gorgeous car in any event!


Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:51:10 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: RE:Drum brake problem

 Channing,

This may be  a symptom of the rod from the brake pedal to the master
cylinder being out of adjustment.  Some of these have an adjustable rod
which can be shortened or lengthened for adjustment of the travel.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>I have a 71 Cutlass with all drum brakes.  When the car is not running
>the brake pedal seems normal enough, but when the car is running the
>pedal almost goes to the floor before the drums catch & then they barely
>catch.  The car set up for about 2 years & was fine until then.  I've
>changed the master cylinder, checked all the brake cylinders & even
>rebuilt the front ones (they were really bad).  Can't find any leaks.
>Any ideas???
>
>
>My drum brakes are indeed power brakes.  The master cylinder was bled.
>It is a rebuilt one.  The old master cylinder had exactly the same
>problems; no improvement with the new one.  The cylinders I rebuilt are
>definitely not leaking.  I have looked at the rear ones while someone
>presses the brakes, but did not see any signs of brake fluid leaking.
>The system has been bled twice to be sure.  As far as the adjustment of
>the shoes, can you tell me how to adjust them properly?  Don't seem to
>be losing any fluid out of the reservoir.
>
>Could this have anything to do with the "proportioning valve"?  How
>about defective power booster?  I know the booster is at least working
>partially due to the brake pedal is not hard.  When I pull the vacuum
>off of it the pedal is rock hard.  Another guy mentioned the brake
>hoses; that seems to be a possibility.
>
>Thanks again.
>This mailing list is really great.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 06:12:07 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Questions

Hi all,

I have a few question:

  Are the doors different between 1968 442 HT and SC?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:32:40 -0400
From: Ed Burger <eburger@sagelink.com>
Subject: Re: advice on purchasing '70 442

>Is it an automatic or a 4-speed?
Its an auto.

>You can get a repro dual-cutout '70 bumper from lots of places (~$340,
but
>you'll also need the lenses, lights, etc; probably better to get a good

>takeoff bumper with all those pieces), so that's not too bad a value.
Is the
>'72 a cutout bumper? After you get the '70 bumper on there, you can
sell the
>'72 as a core.

Thats pricey!  I think for now I'll just stick the '72 bumper on, and
look for a cheap '70 bumper at swap meets.

The front grille is also kind of bad.  How much would a new one be?  Are
they interchangable with a Cutlass?  If the Cutlass's is different
looking, would it at least line up (and what years would it)?

>The fact that the original wiring is not butchered is a real plus; the
air
>can be reconnected with very little difficulty; you might have to have
hoses
>made up, but most of the other parts are easily (if not cheaply)
available.

Everything from the original setup is in the trunk.  I don;t think I
would have to get new hoses or anything then.  Probably just put it back
together and get it charged, right?

>How many miles on it?

The engine has 130k on it, 0 miles since the top end rebuild.

Thanks for all your replies,
Ed

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:33:36 -0400
From: Ed Burger <eburger@sagelink.com>
Subject: RE: Paints in '70

Does anyone have a graphic color chart for '70?  If not, could I just go
to my local NAPA and ask for one?

Ed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:01:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Quadra Qs...

> Cool, I guess I'm not really missing anything essential.  Oh, and
> do you think I should go to a leaner main jet, or wait and see what
> happens, and then experiment with it?

If you are interested in changing WOT metering, it is easier to try
substituting different secondary metering rods.  The primaries account for
less than 50% of the total mixture delivery under these conditions.  If
the primary jets are too big, this would show up under throttle conditions
(< 2/3rds?) where only the primary throttle valves are open, and the
engine is under sufficient load such that the power system would be close
to fully activated.  I suppose it would be possible to use a slightly
looser power piston spring to delay the onset of the power system to
enhance fuel economy.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:53:48 -0500
From: DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Subject: insurance

I'm reviewing the insurance on my 4-4-2's, has anyone had any experience
with the J.C. Taylor, Antique Automobile Agency,Inc.? Their quote seemed
very reasonable (compared to Farmers), but I don't know has the handle
claims?! Any info would be appreciated!
                   Thanks,

Doug..'67 4-4-2 (Bimini Blue,Modified)  "67 4-4-2 convert(being
restored)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:03:08 +0200
From: "archy van wely" <usicon@pi.net>
Subject: Parts?

Hello everyone, I wonder, cause in Holland I can't get them anymore, if I
can order parts online.
I am looking for doorsealers and a rear bumper for a olds delta 88 royale
town sedan from 1976.
I hope anyone can help me!
Greetings from archy from the Netherlands.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:22:22 -0500
From: "GREG GLENN" <gglenn@edge.net>
Subject: Parts Information

I have a 77' Old Cutlass Salon and I need parts.  My car has the great
problem with rust on the rear fenders like most 77's.  Is there a place I
can get good replacemet parts.

Also does anyone know of a way to stop future rust after I repair the
problem?

Thanks,

Greg Glenn
gglenn@edge.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:45:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: R4C442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Delta 88 road-ready

Hey Dave!
     Glad to hear the Delta is ready to go & I'm sure you're going to
appreciate the ride it's going to give you. Incidently, to you and all other
list members, my bro has a 73 Delta which needs the driver's side
retract-spring or entire seat belt assy (green).
Any help would be dug immensely!
                                                               Ron Forsee
                                                                65
442-Meister

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 08:14:55 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)

Every once in a while, the old brain backfires and brings up images of
Oldsmobiles that could have been.  Here is a short sampling and I'll do a
detail low down on each later:

94-96 Custom Cruiser bases on Impala SS
94-96 Ninety Eight Regency bases on Impala SS w/ Buick Roadmaster roof
Cutlass Ciera station wagon International Series
1970 Rallye 455 Vista Cruiser (Ultimate tow vehicle)
1981-88 Cutlass Rallye 350
1981-88 Cutlass Convertible
1998 2 door Intrigue (If pontiac can do it, why not Olds)
Starfire bases in 1970 1/2 - 1973 Pontiac Firebird (square grills, 66 Toro
    tailights, OAI hood & 69 H/O wing resized for starters)
ANY Ninety Eight station wagon
A 100th Anniversary edition of the Aurora in Pace car colors w/o the hood,
    trunk & side graphincs (just white & gold w/ chrome rims)

Geeze, get back to reality.  Actually, some of the ones above are just
cosmetic, like the 81-88 Rallye 350, so VERY do-able.  Hope this sparks
some fantasy discussions.

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  President - Oldsmobile Centennial Club (Chapter of OCA)
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov   (H) brad442@erols.com
OCC Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/occ
OCA Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 09:36:39 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: Olds Club of America Web Page

All,
If you are not an OCA member and want to find out about it, go to
http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca.  This is the Test Pilot Site and a full
blown site w/ it's own URL should be coming in the next 2 months.
Info currently at the site is:

o  An overview of OCA
o  Official OCA local chapter listing
o  Events Calendar from "Journey with Olds", (being updated Fri night)
o  Printable application form (Click on the frame and THEN print)
o  OCA members web sites
   (Note: If yours is not listed, send the address to me and I'll be
   adding them next week:  brad442@erols.com)

Coming soon are:
o  More membars web links
o  e-mail OCA officers
o  NEW way to find local chapters
o  Submit classifieds to JWO via e-mail
o  Olds Newsgroup info (SIGN UP DIGEST FIRST BEING SUGGESTED)
     (Note to Greg,
      I've got your old text file, want it to be updated
      to mention it is a closed list?)
o  Member & car of the month
o  Chapter of the month
o  Who knows what else?

Later

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984  (& Web Site Guy)
 ---  President - Oldsmobile Centennial Club (Chapter of OCA)
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov   (H) brad442@erols.com
OCC Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/occ
OCA Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/oca






------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 10:55:35 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: 9/13/97: Olds Cruise Nite - Maryland

Saturday September 13, 1997
- ---------------------------
1st ANNUAL OLDSMOBILE CENTENNIAL CLUB CRUISE NITE.
Hosted by the Oldsmobile Centennial Club, newest chapter of OCA. At The Big
M Restaurant/Drive-In Theater, P.O. Box 111, Rt. 22, Churchville, MD
(Between Bel Air & Aberdeen, MD. 5 miles west of I-95) All years and
condition Oldsmobiles welcome, daily drivers to show trailer queens. Free
goodie bag to first 50 Oldsmobile through the gate. Open to the public.
Other vehicles welcome to cruise on in. Music, fun and games, 50/50
drawing. Shaded picnic tables and good old fashion drive-in food available.
Across the street is miniature golf course, batting cages, video games,
driving range and a soft ice cream cone joint.  Definitely a family kind of
place.

Info:
Brad Nicholson @ (410) 256-0381   e-mail: brad442@erols.com
Club Web Link at http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
The Big M @ (410) 734-4370.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  President - Oldsmobile Centennial Club (Chapter of OCA)
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov   (H) brad442@erols.com
OCC Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/occ
OFFICIAL OCA Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: advice on purchasing '70 442

ed, i deal in 68-72 442,olds,cutlass,ect.  i have good 70 442 rear bumper
(core), need a 71-72 442 rear bumper,  if you get the car how about a trade?,
 steven.  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:06:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: advice on purchasing '70 442

ps,  thats not a bad price for the car, if you don`t keep it, even the parts
on it should be worth the purchase price.    steven. w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:46:38 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Parts needed

Friends,
ISO 66-67 442 AC dash vents. Must be real nice.

Tanks,

The General

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 15:14:52 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: Oldsmobile Shows (OCA Chapters) UPDATED !!!

Oldsmobile Club of America - Calendar of Events
(Updated - September 4, 1997)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEPTEMBER
========================================================================

September 7, 1997. ALL OLDSMOBILE FUN CAR SHOW AND SWAP MEET.
Hosted by the Archway Chapter. All years are welcome and any condition.
Registration $10 day of show. Swap meet $15. Heart of St. Charles Banquet
Center, St. Charles, MO, Hwy 70 & 5th St. at the Missouri River. For more info:
Randy Masnica, 1447 Prospect Lakes Dr., Wentzville, MO 63385. (314) 332-9313. 
Or
John Palmberger, 11366 Birmingham Ct., St. Louis, MO 63138. (314) 355-4864

September 7, 1997. 100th ANNIVERSARY ALL OLDS CAR SHOW.
Hosted by the Western New York Chapter. At Jack Hayes Oldsmobile, 13090 Main
Rd., Akron, NY 14001 (Buffalo, NY). All years welcome and any condition. Door
prizes, dash plaques, awards in 23 classes, special awards. Lodging nearby.
Info: Bill Cerych, 2197 Main Rd., Corfu, NY 14036, (716) 762-9909. Or write 
Jeff
Hasse, Jack Hayes Oldsmobile, 13090 Main Rd., Akron, NY 14001.

September 7, 1997. ANNUAL NORTHERN CALIFORNIA OLDSMOBILE CHAPTER SHOW.
At Groth Brothers Oldsmobile, 59 So. L Street, Livermore, CA. This show is by
pre-registration only and must be received by August 30, 1997. No entries will
be accepted day of show. Registration is $15 per car. If you help judge, $10 
per
car. This will be a judged show and OCA rules prevail. Trophies. Dash Plaques.
Free hot dogs and soft drinks served to members and exhibitors at this event.
Show starts at 8am. Make checks payable to: Nor Cal Olds Club. Send to Ken Van
Gundy, Jr., 1511 Rampart Dr., Roseville, CA 95661. For more info: (916) 
782-3637

September 11-14, 1997. BIG SKY MEET.
Hosted by the Rendevous Rockets. Missoula, Montana. No rain date. Rendevous
Rockets' Tour from Salt Lake City to Missoula, Montana. Info: Millie Good, Box
351, Greenough, MT 59836. (406) 244-5293.

September 12-13, 1997 - QUAD STATE MEET.
Hosted by the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin. Dodgeville, WI. Info: Jim Lahti @
(414) 258-3814.

September 13, 1997 - 1st ANNUAL OLDSMOBILE CENTENNIAL CLUB CRUISE NITE.
Hosted by the Oldsmobile Centennial Club (Future OCA Chapter). At The Big M
Restaurant/Drive-In Theater, P.O. Box 111, Rt. 22, Churchville, MD (Between Bel
Air & Aberdeen, MD. 5 miles west of I-95) All years and condition Oldsmobiles
welcome, daily drivers to show trailer queens. Open to the public. Other
vehicles welcome to cruise on in. Music, fun and games, 50/50 drawing. Info:
Brad Nicholson @ (410) 256-0381, e-mail: brad442@erols.com or The Big M @ (410)
734-4370. Club Web Link http://www.erols.com/brad442/occhome.html

September 13-14, 1997. ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST ZONE MEET
In conjunction with Fall 1997 AutoFair at Charlotte Motor Speedway. The largest
collector car event in the Southeastern US. Saturday & Sunday Show. Casual
banquet Saturday night. Popular judging in OCA class divisions with overall 
Best
of Show. Olds eligible for prestigious Best of AutoFair competition Sunday
afternoon. Pre-registration is strongly advised due to space availability and
heavy show traffic, day of show is risky. Entry fee admits car and occupants to
Olds Zone Show. Hornet's Nest Region AACA Swap Meet and Car Corral in Speedway
Infield., and all AutoFair special exhibits and attractions both days.
Oldsmobile Centennial will be a large part of '97 Fall AutoFair theme so come
celebrate with us after Lansing. More information will appear in future JWO.
Info: Glenn Williamson, 125 Jordan Street, Danville, VA 24540-2633. (804)
799-2691.

September 19-21, 1997. 5th ANNUAL PACIFIC NORTHWEST ALL OLDSMOBILE WEEKEND
RALLY.
Join us for a weekend by the ocean in picturesque Parksville on Vancouver
Island, British Columbia, Canada. Activities start Friday night with a Salmon
BBQ followed Saturday by an informal show and shine and cruise to the BC Forest
Museum to ride a historic steam train. Awards dinner Saturday night. Hosted by
the British Columbia Oldsmobile Club with the Puget Sound and Northern Light
Chapters. All OCA and affiliate members welcome. Limited rooms available. For
hotel reservations call Gray Crest Seaside Resort today @ (250) 248-6513. Room
rates are $73/Cdn (approx $55 US) per night. Reservations must be made by June
30, 1997. Contact Richard Lewis at (604) 540-1874 for registration, maps and
general information.

September 20, 1997. 2nd ANNUAL BOP SHOW.
Hosted by the Rendevous Rockets. At Murry, Utah, City Park. No rain date. For
more info: Greg Childs, 615 E. Mutton Hollow Rd., Kaysville, UT 84037.

September 21, 1997 - 11th ANNUAL ALL-OLDSMOBILE CAR SHOW AND SWAP MEET
Hosted by the Mid-Ohio Chapter. New location for 1997. At the Andersons General
Store, Bent Tree Blvd. (near intersection of Rt. 161 and Sawmill Rd.), 
Columbus,
OH. Car Corral, dash plaques, door prizes. Registration 8:30am to 11:30am. OCA
point judging starts at 12 noon. Trophies awared at 4:00pm. Registration is $10
in advance for show and judging, $12 day of show. To show your car only (not
judged), the fees are $6 and $8 respectively. Vendor spaces available at $5
each. Nearby hotels are available. For more info and/or recieve a flyer: Pete
Gaydos (614) 764-9668 or Gary Scheideger (614) 890-7476.

September 21, 1997. 12th ANNUAL FALL MEET.
Hosted by the Blue/Gray Chapter. At E.O. Miller Chevrolet-Oldsmobile, 515 East
Chocolate Ave. (US Route 422), Hershey, PA 17033. Pre-registration only by
September 13, 1997. $8. Arrive 9am to 12 noon. Trophies and door prizes awarded
by 3pm. For more info: Dave Daniels, 6 Arwin Dr., Hummelstown, PA 17036-9215.
(717) 566-3697.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
OCTOBER
========================================================================

October 5, 1997. 4th ANNUAL TRUCKEE DONNER CLASSIC.
Hosted by the Northern California Chapter. At the Best Westerm Motel, 1131 
State
Hwy. 267, Truckee, CA. 8am-3pm. Cars to be judged must be on the show field no
later than 9am. Pre-registration required. No entries accepted day of show.
Entries must be in by Sept. 26, 1997. The entry fee is $15. You must be an
Oldsmobile Club member to show your Oldsmobile. Awards will be presented after
the show. For more info: Ken Van Gundy, Jr. (916) 782-3637. Reservations
available at the Best Western Motel at (800) 824-6385. Mention Olds Club for
special rates.

October 11-12, 1997. FIRST ANNUAL REGIONAL OLDSMOBILE SHOW AND GO DAY.
Hosted by the Rallye 350 Club. At Raceway Park in Englishtown , NJ. Racing and
People's Choice for muffled cars on Saturday. Racing only on Sunday for
unmuffled and muffled cars. There will be a flea market also. Saturday night
will end with a buffet and awards dinner at a nearby hotel. For more info:
JoAnne Latorre (908) 276-8008 or (908) 276-4395.

October 12, 1997. 9th ANNUAL ALL OLDSMOBILE FALL SHOW.
Hosted by the Capitol City Rockets Chapter. At Templeton Oldsmobile, 8598
Leesburg Pike (Rt 7), Vienna, VA 22182. Help CCR wind down Oldsmobile's
birthday. Music by "Oldies 100 WBIG", food & drink, door prizes, OCA judging
available and parts department may be open w/ show specials. Pre-Reg $10 if
postmarked before 10/4/97, $12 day of show. Registration includes dash plaque,
event t-shirt, goodie bag and door prize ticket. Please make payment to "Capito
l
City Rockets". Send registration to: Dio & Barbara, Attn: CCR Fall Show, PO Box
332, LaPlata, MD 20646. Info: (301) 934-2586 or leave a message.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
1998
========================================================================

July 15-18, 1998. OCA 1998 NATIONAL MEET.
Hosted by the Illinois Valley Olds Chapter. Our host hotel is the Crowne Plaza 
(
or on the same property ) the sister hotel Holiday Inn East - Springfield IL. 
Be
sure to tell them you are with the Oldsmobile Club of America to get our group
rates. For the Crown Plaza call (217) 529-7777 or for the Holiday Inn East call
(217) 529-7171. For event information contact Bill & JoAnn Wagaman, 816 13th
St., Rockford, IL 61104. Chapter Phone: (815) 398-6698

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:06:30 -0300
From: "Robert J. Lavey" <rjlavey@rmci.net>
Subject: Console/Dual Gate

Hi Gang,

What color should the console be in a 1968 442 with white seats/door panels
and black carpeting.  Black would be my guess.  White would look a bit odd.

Will a dual gate from a '70 442 fit in a '68 console?  I do not have a '68
console for an automatic, so I cannot just check the fit.

Thanks for any help.
Bob
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
 Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:19:43 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye Info Needed!!!

David1756@aol.com wrote:
>
> I owned a Rallye 350 in 1979.  It had been well used, but was still quite
> fast and fun to drive.  The small block made it a better handler than a 442
> in many ways.  As I recollect there is a pretty dedicated couple in New
> Jersey who are in OCA, maybe even have a special club for Rallye 350, and
> they commissioned reproduction of the stripe kit a few years ago (not cheap).
>  Perhaps someone else on the list can remember their names or find them in
> JWO (mine are all packed).  Great cars, you hould absolutely buy it.   Is it
> a post or a hardtop?  Fewer of the post models were made.  Does it have all
> the ram air pieces, the rear wing, the body colored bumpers, and the sport
> steering wheel?

Don't know if this will help, but try:
The Oldsmobile Rallye 350 Club
37 Georgia St.
Cranford, NJ  07016
(908) 276-8008

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:23:17 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome

Mike Rothe wrote:
>
> CarrDuff@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone here have a source for getting plastic pieces chromed ?
> > I need to get my Console Plate and my Instrument Bezell re-chromed.
> > Any info would be appreiciated
> >
> I have a suggestion.  Wait until next month when I get my parts back
> from Custom Coatings (aka Pot Metal Restorations) in Tallahassee,
> Florida.  They are in Hemmings this month, (and last month).  I called
> the owner, and he has developed a way to copper coat plastic, then
> rechrome it just like you would a show bumper.

Hmmm, this sounds like an electroloess deposition process.  Done to all
your circuit boards to get metal in the holes (typically copper, but
could be electroless gold).  I hadn't thought about this before, I might
have to test out some pieces.  Of course, I don't have access to the
chrome plating baths...

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:25:02 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Console/Dual Gate

Robert J. Lavey wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> What color should the console be in a 1968 442 with white seats/door panels
> and black carpeting.  Black would be my guess.  White would look a bit odd.

Black.

> Will a dual gate from a '70 442 fit in a '68 console?  I do not have a '68
> console for an automatic, so I cannot just check the fit.

Not properly.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:53:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: insurance

Forwarding...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:DKTBAT@webtv.net (doug thompson)
Date:Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:53:48 -0500
Subject: insurance

I'm reviewing the insurance on my 4-4-2's, has anyone had any experience
with the J.C. Taylor, Antique Automobile Agency,Inc.? Their quote seemed
very reasonable (compared to Farmers), but I don't know has the handle
claims?! Any info would be appreciated!
                   Thanks,

Doug..'67 4-4-2 (Bimini Blue,Modified)  "67 4-4-2 convert(being
restored)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:56:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> One of the items I forgot to mention, which lead me
> to thinking the car's owner is deviating from stock, were the four SSII 
wheels
> it had, painted the same dark blue as the car.  Didn't I read on this h
allowed
> list that the first SSII wheels were all a matte dark grey?

Actually all SSII wheels were metallic gray. The body color ones were
introduced in '71 (I think) and are known as SSIII wheels. I think both
choices were available for a few years.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 17:03:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm Back, and a New Olds Seen in Dodge

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997 Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
>>  A Cutlass S should have a grille with vertical bars. A 4-4-2 has a
>>  grid pattern. The S was not a Supreme, but rather a slightly sporty
>>  variant of the regular Cutlass. You could also get a Supreme (forget
>>  if they offered that in a convertible though) which in '68 was the
>>  luxury Cutlass with specific door panels, upholstery, trim, etc., and
>>  silver paint trimming the wheel openings and rocker panels.
> Greg was there really a Supreme offered in 68? I thought it was just the "S".
> If so do you by chance have production numbers for Supremes. Although
> I've only had converts in 68, I've seen lots of other 68s, just never a
> Supreme.
> Would love to see one and especially like to know if any where hi perf cars.
> Wonder what the Supreme package was for 68......TIM

All my literature is still packed away after the move, but I know that a
'68 Supreme would have had a different interior with a front bench seat
with fold down armrest, carpeted lower door panels, longer armrests (on
2-doors) and extra insulation. Outside it had moldings a few inches above
the wheel openings and rocker panels with contrasting silver paint below
that -- very sharp looking. The Supreme in '68 also came standard with a
4-barrel 350.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 16:13:18 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Engine tuning

A friend of mine recently bought a 70 442 and is in the process of
restoring it.  The 455 engine has a radical cam, specs unknown....but
its pretty lumpy.  The manifold vaccum is quite low.  The power brakes
have "no power".  Its got the original carb which appears to have been
rebuilt.  The previous owner claimed he changed jets (he has since
moved, no other info available).  He (mechanic) had recently rebuilt the
engine to drag.  The 442 bogs down on hard acceleration from a standing
start and then recovers. Its also really hard to start and starts only
after pumping the gas pedal 20-30 times.  It appears that raw gas is
exhausted from the tail pipe on initial start up and it runs really
rough before smoothing out. Since neither of us are skilled mechanics,
the car has visited a number of area garages in an attempt to solve the
carburation problem.  No success but lots of frustration and $$$$ spent.
Any advice as to where to go from here or what the problem is likely to
be. We want to maintain the original carb.  We are considering sending
the carb for a rebuild and return to original specs.  Looking forward to
hearing from from all the talent out there.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:15:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine tuning

two things i can think of.  one of them is the accelerator pump.  the other
is the gasoline you are using.
if the accelerator pump is bad the engine would bog when pressing the gas
pedal.  this if from lack of fuel and too much oxygen.  that would also
account for the startup problems.
you might try using a little more expensive gasoline.  with some olds
engines, they tend to run better with good gas.  do you have any
modifications to the compression ratio?

16 year old high school student
mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 16:30:55 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Engine tuning

Mikeytvb@aol.com wrote:
>
> two things i can think of.  one of them is the accelerator pump.  the other
> is the gasoline you are using.
> if the accelerator pump is bad the engine would bog when pressing the gas
> pedal.  this if from lack of fuel and too much oxygen.  that would also
> account for the startup problems.
> you might try using a little more expensive gasoline.  with some olds
> engines, they tend to run better with good gas.  do you have any
> modifications to the compression ratio?
>
> 16 year old high school student
> mikey tvb@aol.com
> 73 cutlass w/403
Thanks Mikey.....but he is using the highest octane gas available from
commercial pumps.  The accelerator pump has been replaced.  Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:49:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine tuning

"The manifold vaccum is quite low."

one other thing i was thinking of is that your running a radical cam.  with a
radical cam there is little vaccum.  without any vaccum the distributer
advance thinks that you are cruzing down the highway.  try to retard the
timing and take your car for a test drive to see if it works.  i think this
will work.

mikey tvb@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 17:35:55 -0400
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@compuserve.com>
Subject: Toro part wanted

Hey Everyone!

I posted a need for a mid '80s Toro horn cap for the sport steering wheel a
couple of weeks ago and did not get a response, which is OK becouse it's
not really important yet.  However, I finally got around to going to the
parts counter at the local non-Olds GM dealership to inquire about a few
things, one of them being the horn cap.  It turns out it has been
discontinued (go figure) and there are none left at any dealership or
warehouse, not only in the US but internationally as well!!

So if someone spots a horn cap for and '84-'85 Toro sport steering wheel
could someone pick it up for me.  I would appreciate it very much. Color is
not important as I can paint it with thAt vinyl paint that was discussed a
while back.

Also could someone tell me the address for the Toro list as I would like to
post this request there also.  Thanks.

One other thing on a side note, just for kicks I asked how much new doors
would cost for my '85 Cutlass.  I was figuring somewhere in the area of
$600.  Boy was I wrong on that!!  They go for $1,000 EACH!!  I guess I'll
be trying to get rid of all that rust on my doors instead of replacing them
now.

Thanks again,

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
'83 Cutlass Ciera

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: <the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: Toro part wanted

Make that two...
I've got that same steering wheel in my '84 Cutlass if it is a 3 spoke
sport wheel that is particularly large and the spokes are brushed
steel.

The address for the Toro list is
toro@armchair.mb.ca

I assume the address to sub... you know that word... to the Toro list
is
majordomo@armchair.mb.ca

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com


____________________included message
Hey Everyone!

I posted a need for a mid '80s Toro horn cap for the sport steering
wheel a
couple of weeks ago and did not get a response, which is OK becouse
it's
not really important yet.  However, I finally got around to going to
the
parts counter at the local non-Olds GM dealership to inquire about a
few
things, one of them being the horn cap.  It turns out it has been
discontinued (go figure) and there are none left at any dealership or
warehouse, not only in the US but internationally as well!!

So if someone spots a horn cap for and '84-'85 Toro sport steering
wheel
could someone pick it up for me.  I would appreciate it very much.
Color is
not important as I can paint it with thAt vinyl paint that was
discussed a
while back.

Also could someone tell me the address for the Toro list as I would
like to
post this request there also.  Thanks.






_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:37:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: MrMojoIndy@aol.com
Subject: 71 Olds

Ive been reading the group for about a week now, and have been amazed at the
info, and the size of the group. :) After ten years of begging, and pleading,
I talked one of our Old Neighbors out of her 71 Cutlass.  As it sits now, the
car is Red, with a white vinyl top, and white interior. The engine is a 350
rocket according to the air cleaner lid. The carb is has on it now is a
rochester one barrel two jet. I assume this is not the origional carb. The
car had only 36 thousand miles on it when I got it, and ive racked about ten
thousand happy miles since then. I would like to do some performance and
styling upgrades without ruining the originality of the car. I would like to
put a spoiler, and an OAI hood on the car with possibly the addition of white
stripes to the red exterior. As far as the powertrane mods, I would like to
get a 4bbl intake and carb, and probably go to dual exhaust with the cut-out
bumper and trumpets. Ive got one friend that wants me to keep it the same,
and another waiting, torch in hand, to tub the thing.  And I, just want it to
look and perform great without being called bogus. :) So, were the OAI Hoods,
and Spoiler options for this car? Will I be able to find a correct 4bbl
intake and carb? The cars VIN is 332871M218714  The body placard is: ST71
33287LAN448739
  TR   907   75   A
O6d
(The O6d had part of it covered by the fastener, so it could
say somethign else)
Ive also got a card about four inches tall, and 11 inches wide that has...
 BroadcaststylePlt. Body Number  V  Trim Ext       Paint      P T
SEQ MO Day      Number    OPT 16    7       SPCL/Trim   Lwr/top P Y
Comb  P
031 06 28       33287    A02448739907    75    A   2

B30

I also just found a Pre-Delivery Checklist for the car, its a 1972 form, but
its dated 11-16-71, From Shoner Chevy Olds Inc. in Hartville Ohio. Any help
would be apprecitaed! I would also be interested in finding an olds club he
in Indianapolis.

Thanks,
Joanthan Dooley

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:39:50 -0400
From: Rick Anderson <randerson@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Problems

Christian Fair wrote:
>
> >I want to put fron't disks on my Jetstar, but my father (and half-owner)
> >feels that it is unnecessary and a waste of money.  I'm not concerned
> >about originality as long as it looks fairly stock on the outside.(we're
> >going for the sleeper effect).  He doesn't understand that if you hop up
> >the engine and driveline you should also beef up the brakes.
> >
> >What does the front disk setup cost these days?
>
> Depends on what you can get the parts for. I got some junkyard, some new.
> It ended up being the best part of a grand, but I know I didn't have a
> great deal when I did this work. You might be able to get away for less
> than half that with careful shopping.
>
> I used new calipers, pads, ball joints and hoses, junkyard rotors & spindles.
> 15 inch wheels will be necessary, as will a new dual master and variable
> proportioning valve (maybe $50 or so...)
>
> Agree with you on the sleeper effect and stock exterior, my sentiments
exactly. > > So, if you don't manage to convince the old man on hopping to
discs, do be > sure to get a dual master and variable proportioning valve. This
will leave > you with safer brakes and more control of the front/rear brake
bias. Also, > you'll be part way there if you ever do decide to swap over to
discs in front. > > Good luck, cool big car! > cf Thanks for the advice, I
talked to  him about the dual master cylinder and he agreed with that but he is
still unmsure about disks.  I already have 15x7 Cragar S/S wheels on it, and
that is the only visible modification to the car so far.  I had it out today 
and
i really noticed the feel of drums on all 4 corners whilehauling it down in a
hurry from 65-70mph.  Being  used to vehicles with disks on the front, I didn't
like the feeling.  Oh well, I'm just a spoiled kid anyway.

Rick Anderson
Clarkston, MI
65 Jetstar I w/455

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: Re: 8 Track player question

paul
thanks for your help with 8 track wiring
                                                           jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:03:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Plastic Chrome

Mike Rothe,

Yes I can wait for a while.  I don't expect to be ready to reassemble the
interior until after the new year.

Did they indicate how long thier process takes ?

As an update to the trans. rebuild,
  I was able to sqeeze the case into my blast cabinet @ home so I went ahead
and glass beaded it.  I masked off everything to keep the glass out, which it
did keep most of it out.  The ozidization was pretty deep into the pits of
the casing.  I used some Aluminum Cleaner I got from work on it.  It looks
ok,  not new, but ok.  I think I'll give it a shot of Eastwood's Alumoblast
Paint to make it look new.

  I still have to order the parts.  I think I'll get them @ PAW. They have
the B&M rebuild kit for 189.00 and a PAW torque converter for around 200.00.

 Steve Dietrich

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 97 22:12:47 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions

 Chris Sparks asked:

  Are the doors different between 1968 442 HT and SC?


     Yep, 'fraid so.  Nice try, but those power window doors won't go on
     your sport coupe.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:16:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Club of America Web Page

Brad Nicholson,

 The full blown OCA site sounds pretty cool.  It will be nice to submit
classified's over the net.

Congradulations on getting your OCA charter during the Lansing Celibration.
 I which your club was closer (to Philadelphia) that is.

Is anyone else on this list a member ?

Steve Dietrich
   S/E PA
      71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 97 11:52:47 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: NAOC (long-not any more)

Lisa Madsen asked:

..So should I join the NAOC as I am A) female B) under 40 (barely) and
C) have an unrestored '64 Olds?  I could break all those stereotypes in
one fell swoop...

My cars & their alias'
'64 Cutlass
^^^^^^^^^^^

     Lisa,

     I think I've found the fundamental flaw in your logic.  Do you
     seriously think they'll admit you...you own one of those dreaded
     "Type C" (Cutlass - not the other Type C) cars.  You let in one
     A-body owner, and the next thing you know, there'll be O.A.I. cars,
     and wide tires, and who knows what else.

     I guess you could argue that your engine has shaft-mounted rockers,
     just like a proper 394 ;-)

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W/30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Console/Dual Gate

Bob

>What color should the console be in a 1968 442 with white seats/door panels
>and black carpeting.  Black would be my guess.  White would look a bit odd.

My guess would be black.  My restoration guide does not specifically address
what color the console should be, but on my 71 with pearl interior the only
things pearl are the seats and the door panels (and the headliner if it were
a coupe).  Everything else is black,  console, carpet, seat covers and dash.

>Will a dual gate from a '70 442 fit in a '68 console?  I do not have a '68
>console for an automatic, so I cannot just check the fit.

Don't know the answer to that, but looking through my restoration guide, the
pictures for the 68 auto console does not look anythine like the consoles
from a 70-72.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:40:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: CarrDuff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pertronix vs HEI

In a message dated 97-09-05 16:50:12 EDT, you write:

<< Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
 71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html) >>


  Kurt, are you talking about the "Ignitor Electronic Ignition" product line
offered by Year One to replace the old point system ?

  I just purchased one of these for my 71 442, haven't used it yet, but I had
planned to when I'm ready to run the car.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 21:50:03
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: NAOC (long-not any more)

At 09:10 PM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote:
>This brings to mind my ex-uncle in law's Packard club which had gotten to
>the point to the point where they knew exactly how many '54 Carribean
>convertibles were still out there, where they were parked at their
>respective locations and how many times a month it had been washed - no,
>joking on that part - they did however, know the location of EVERY LAST ONE
>of the nine left (which did include one in a field in Oklahoma that the
>owner wouldn't sell for anything).  That does get stifling as there is no
>infusion of new blood to create more interest.
>
>So should I join the NAOC as I am A) female B) under 40 (barely) and C)
>have an unrestored '64 Olds?  I could break all those stereotypes in one
>fell swoop.

I have an NAOC membership directory dated June 1992.  Casually flipping
through it, I can spot no female first names for any of the members.  I've
not scanned it from cover to cover (there's around 2000 members), but I
would be surprised if the number of female members is more than a dozen or
two.

If you have a model year Olds that qualifies, you can certainly join (you
can even join if you don't!).  The articles seem to concentrate on cars
from the 40s and 50s, but a lot of it depends on what the membership sends
in as articles.  They did do a nice article on the '62 F85s a few months back.

As far as being under 40, that's just a short-term condition.  If you wait
long enough, you wake up one morning and discover that you're _over_ 40.  I
know.  It recently happened to me.



Dan


*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************
see photos of the Oldsmobile Centennial at
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/lansing/lansing.html
*********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:29:13
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Car ID-Numbers

At 11:32 AM 9/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
>I wonder if anyone could decypher the Id-numbers from my olds I am
>restaurating overhere in Holland?
>The numbers are:
>chassis nr. 3n69r6m245217
>Code 76oldsl10605217.
>I hope anyone can help me>
>Thanks anyway and greetings from Holland.
> Archy

Archy,

I've got the info for 1975, which I would guess would be mostly applicable,
but there might be a variation here and there.

from your VIN:

3 = division number (Olds)
N = series designation (N = Delta 88 Royale)
69 = body style (Town Sedan, which was a four-door with pillar)
R = engine code, which for 1975 indicated a 400, but I believe for 1976
indicated a 350
6 = model year (1976)
M = assembly plant (Lansing, Michigan)
245217 = assembly sequence number for all Oldsmobiles (Delta 88 and
otherwise) built at Lansing for 1976, probably begining with 100001.

I don't know what the Code thing tells you (except that, obviously, it's a
1976 Olds and the last four digits match the last four of the VIN).


Dan


*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************
see photos of the Oldsmobile Centennial at
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/lansing/lansing.html
*********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 97 22:45:03 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)


..Hope this sparks some fantasy discussions.

     Well, since you asked for it Brad:

     The W-30 Vista Cruisers have been done.  I've always wanted to build a
     68 Olds-Camino.  Yes, I know this has been done too, but hear me out.
     Start with a trashed ElCamino body.  The big block Olds and matching
     TH400 obviously bolt in with the appropriate frame mounts.  The core
     support and front sheet metal from a 68 442 also bolt on (I'm willing
     to bet that cowl and corresponding fender attach bolt locations at the
     rear of the front fenders are the same on all A-bodies).

     Of course, now it gets harder.  Door skins can be swapped, but you
     also have to modify the outer half of the forward and aft ends of the
     doors to match the different curvature of the door skins.  Of course,
     the obvious problem is the rear quarter panels, which I assume will
     require some combination of VC rear door and rear quarter skins, to
     which must be added a liberal amount of hand-formed sheet metal
     ($ound$ like a job for $omebody like Boyd Coddington).  The VC
     taillights and tailgate can certainly be adapted.

     Interior-wise, the sheetmetal under-structure for the dash must be
     changed to allow the correct 442 dashboard (with Rally-Pac, naturally)
     to be installed.  The appropriate 442 upholstery goes on the seats and
     door panels.  SSIIs are a must, as is a Type-O 12 bolt (use the VC
     unit with the bigger brakes and bearings).  And of course, under the
     hood is a complete O.A.I. setup, with under-the-bumper scoops (this
     _is_ a fantasy, after all).

     Oh well, I've been planning this car for about the last 15 years; I
     guess a few more won't hurt ;-)

     Other phantoms?  How about a small block Olds-powered 75 Starfire
     (H-07 body style)?  A '98 Aurora-powered Bravada to go up against the
     5.9 liter Grand Cherokee?  How about a 307 in an early Bravada
     two-door?

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30





------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:34:15
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Phantom Olds Never Built (Fantasy List)

At 08:14 AM 9/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Every once in a while, the old brain backfires and brings up images of
>Oldsmobiles that could have been.  Here is a short sampling and I'll do a
>detail low down on each later:
>

>ANY Ninety Eight station wagon

>| | | Brad Nicholson


Brad,

The 1971-1976 Custom Cruiser wagons _were_ essentially Ninety-Eight station
wagons.  They just weren't called that.  As I recall, they were built on
the 98 chassis, and they did have the 98's taillights.



Dan


*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************
see photos of the Oldsmobile Centennial at
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/lansing/lansing.html
*********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:12:44
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: NAOC (long)

At 01:30 AM 9/6/97 -0300, you wrote:

>..When the NAOC was originally formed, they recognized only through the
>1960 model year, because, I presume, that was the last year B.C. (Before
>Cutlasses).  Why they crept up '64, which includes three years of the
>Cutlass, I don't know
>
>     Could it perhaps have something to do with 64 being the last year of
>     production for the original Rocket V-8 (the 394)?
>
>     Joe (I'll never qualify as a member) Padavano

Joe,

I found a bit more about the background of the founding of the NAOC in a
"President's Letter" column in the March 1992 issue of Runabouts to
Rockets.  I had seen it when it first came out, but I had to dig through my
back issues to find it.  Quoting from the column (written by Woody Hyde,
who was president of the NAOC for several years):

"Sometime in 1981, a few disenchanted OCA'ers begot the National Antique
Oldsmobile Club, at that time limited to 25 years or older models.  It is
not unusual for us to be called 'the other club.'  I've found myself guilty
of this reference on occasion.  But the word 'other' implies a frame of
reference.  It depends on where you are coming from.  I suppose in terms of
age, membership numbers, and national meet size, we remain in the shadow of
the OCA.  But when it comes to a timely newsletter and meet camraderie,
we're overshadowed by none."

So the NAOC was founded 16 years ago, which makes it 11 years younger than
the OCA (founded in 1970).  Also, when founded, only Oldsmobiles of model
year 1956 or older were recognized by the club.  I guess that the original
intent was that, every year, the eligible model year increased by one, so
that in 1982, the 1957s would qualify, and so on.  Someone probably
realized that, before long, the very Cutlasses and 442s that the NAOC was
trying to get away from would start qualifying, so at some point they
decided to freeze the eligibility at a particular year.

He goes on to say:

"Our current cutoff year is 1964 inclusive, the second revision to the
original limitation.  Though to some it may seem so, this is not entirely
arbitrary, nor is it cast in concrete.  But for now, '64 seems a logical
cutoff.  The character of Oldsmobiles, and indeed of the owners, is
somewhat changed after that."

Well, I certainly found that last sentence interesting.  I don't for a
minute think he was looking to pick a fight, but I've often wondered what
he meant specifically by it.  In my experience, about the only real
difference between the owners of pre-1965 Oldsmobiles and post-1964
Oldsmobiles is that the latter are a bit younger than the former.  Which,
as I went into at length in my previous post, is completely predictable and
understandable.



Dan



*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************
see photos of the Oldsmobile Centennial at
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/lansing/lansing.html
*********************************************************

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª837
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