
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, October 10 1997       Volume 01 : Number 897



help
Fwd:GMC: High output Alternator
Re: Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)
Re: Fwd:GMC: High output Alternator
Re: The list people and their cars
Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket
Re: 307 heads
[none]
Re: Englishtown, NJ
Re: 
Re: Valve cover question
Re: 
[none]
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: misc stuffs
Re:what are you talking about
Re: The list people and their cars
power steering box
hardtop convertible
hardtop convertible
Re: misc stuffs
Re: engineering question
Re: hardtop convertible
Re: 73 442
Re: TH-200-4R's
Re: misc stuffs
Re: '78 Delta 88 parts needed... ('77+ B/C/D waterleak)
Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket
"Hardtop Convertibles"
Re: power steering box
Re: CCR All-Olds Show This Sunday 
Re: 
Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]
Air Cleaners...
Re: The list people and their cars
Tell me if I miss anything!!!!!!!!!!
Re: try again
Re: Re[2]: 455 rocket
Re: "Hardtop Convertibles"
Re: Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re: Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 
Re[4]: 455 rocket
Re: "Hardtop Convertibles"
coolant overflow
UNBOUNCE:re:Updates and Questions -Reply
later factory AL intakes
UNBOUNCE: WTB Muscle Car
Re[2]: try again
UNBOUNCE: Air Cleaners...
Re: try again
Re: UNBOUNCE:re:Updates and Questions -Reply
Re: UNBOUNCE: Air Cleaners...
Re: looking for 1, SS I wheel
Re: try again
I was grouchy!
Re: hardtop convertible
Voting: divide & conquer?
Light Bulbs
65 442 performance
piston motion
original frame?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dustin Cross <dcross@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: help

sorry, I lost the address to unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:22:55 -0400
From: Patrick Flowers <patri63@ibm.net>
Subject: Fwd:GMC: High output Alternator

The following was asked on the GMC motorhome list.  Does anyone here
know if there are brackets to fit a 140 amp alternator to the 455?

> Has any one put a high output (140 Amp) alternator on a 455?  The new
> alternators have a different mount and I have seen this mount on a 455 
> that was in a rwd Olds.  Any body have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Patrick
- -- 
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63@ibm.net

The GMC Motorhome Page 
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 13:49:34 EDT
From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Generator to ALternator Swap (HELP NEEDED!!!)

One option is to use a GM "1 wire alternator", which  is internally 
regulated and combines the (+) Field wire and the BATT wire together,
and requires the alternator case be grounded (you have to work hard
to avoid this in most cases...).   The single wire is run to your
battery's (+) field.  You can buy these alternators new or get
a rebuilt one, I'm not sure what years, but they were the stock
alt's used on many 80's GMs.  you can buy them from summit too.

ammeter's do not work with the 1 wire alternator, volt meters do
work.  If your idiot light just detects a drop in the charging
system volt level, which is probably the case, it should still
work fine.

good luck,
doug

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:56:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd:GMC: High output Alternator



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

I'm late but here goes:

OLDSMOBILES
65 Delta 88 2 dr        White, turq int, 425 2BBL, wire wheel covers
66 Toronado Deluxe      Brown, parchment int, chrome wheels
69 Cutlass S 2 dr       Primer, black int, 350 4BBL/TH350, SSII
70 Cutlass S 2 dr post  'Soon' to be 455 bracket car
70 Cutlass S 2 dr       Aspen Green, 350 2BBL/TH350, SSII (soon to be
Azure Blue and 4 speed)
70 Cutlass S W31        Forest Green, black stripes,black int 
                        350/dead TH350/3.91
70 442 W30 conv         Matador Red, white int,455/4speed/3.42, SSII
71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr  White, black int, 350 4BBL/TH350, FE2, SSI
72 Cutlass Supreme conv Blue, white int, 350 4BBL/TH350, SSII
72 Delta 88 conv        Matador Red, white int, 455/TH400, SSIV 
72 442 W30 conv         Saturn Gold, white stripes, saddle(YUK)int,   
                        455/TH400/3.42, dual gate, SSII
86 Cutlass Supreme 2dr  White, burg int. 307/TH350/2.14, SSII

OTHERS
68 Fairlane 500 st wagon  Red, 351W/FMX/3.00, GT wheels
75 F100 pickup            Primer, 360/C6/3.50  
82 Suburban               Brown, 454/TH400/4.10

PARTS CARS
70 Cutlass S
70 Cutlass S
72 Cutlass 
72 Cutlass S
74 F100

===
John Pajak                       
Lexington Park, Maryland
about 60 miles south of Washington DC


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:38:03 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket

>When my 56 Olds was finished I had it on the German Autobahn for about 1500
>miles to go to the German Olds Meeting. When running at about 60 mph the
>engine took about 1 Liter of Oil on 600 miles, which it blew somewhere at
>the rear end of the engine (at the cover between the heads under the intake
>manifold?).

You corrected that later to read l Liter (about a quart) in _60_ miles;
yup, that's a *bit* too much!

>I looked some pictures I have from the Rocket engine in old ads and found
>out, that there was a tube lacking at my engine at the rear side which goes
>down near the exhaust. I consider this tube to be something like a draft
>tube which in my opinion is supposed to create a vacuum in the engine when
>passing through the air or at least cut down too much pressure in the engine.
>The hole where this tube belongs was sealed by the shop with a freezing seal.
>
>They say the tube never was there when I gave them the engine to restore
>and they say the tube isn´t of any importance.

That tube *is* supposed to be there, and it *is* important. Before the use
of a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system became common in about
1964, automakers used a HOMCV (Hit or Miss Crankcase Ventilation) system,
which was simply a tube that served as a vent for the combustion pressures
that inevitably make their way past the rings and into the crankcase.

With the PCV system, these combustion gasses are drawn back into the intake
system and burned or otherwise expelled through the exhaust; the other
advantage is that there is a low-pressure condition created in the
crankcase, so that the pistons don't have to work so hard moving that air
around in there (some air is still being pumped from under one cylinder as
it goes down to under the another cylinder that is going up, but there's
less of a breeze). Drag racers go to great pains these days to reduce
crankcase pressure, and go so far as to install a little belt-driven
"smog-pump" from an AIR system to suck out air from the crankcase.

With the draft-tube system, the air is being pumped back and forth, but the
extra pressure being added by the combustion gasses getting past the piston
rings is being vented out the draft tube. The reason it's so long is to
keep water and creepy-crawly things out of the crankcase. I don't think
it's location is designed to depend on any under-car vacuum; the crankcase
pressure will be higher than atmospheric pressure anyway. I had a '60
Pontiac with this setup, but it was pretty standard for all American cars.

With your current setup, the air is still being pushed around in there, but
the combustion gasses getting past the rings ("blowby" it's called) are
building up pressure in the crankcase, and your gaskets are unfortunately
serving as unintentional vents for these pressures.

>Who is right? 

You are right. I can't imagine that an engine-shop wouldn't know the basic
principles of crankcase ventilation, and note that in the absence of a PCV
system, there would need to be some other form of ventilation.

>I think, when the tube was there, the engine wouldn´t blow
>oil and when it is NOT there and the hole is closed, there´s no means the
>get the engine leakproof.

You're getting oil coming out, because the gaskets/seals that are serving
as vents are also designed to keep the oil in the engine. They may be
permanently damaged, and you might have a good argument that the engine
shop that assembled the engine is responsible for replacing them. If you're
lucky, though, they'll still be able to seal an engine that doesn't have
excessive crankcase pressures.

>Of course, if the tube has to be there, I´d appreciate any help in finding
>one.......

I don't know off the top of my head if Fusick or Olds Parts USA would have
the original tubes, but they would be the best places to start. Of course,
anybody who can bend a metal tube would be able to recreate the original
one for you. The best alternative, though the least-original, would be to
work in a PCV valve, likely by adding a rubber grommet where the machine
shop has installed a plug, placing a PCV valve in there, and routing a
rubber hose from the PCV valve to a large vacuum fitting. Later and
aftermarket carburetors will have a fitting in front to accept a PCV hose,
so if you have a newer carburetor, the fitting may already be there.

BTW, you are experiencing the same problem that owners of newer cars go
through when their PCV valves get stuck shut. Just thank your lucky stars
that you've got a rebuilt engine and new gaskets; with worn-out piston
rings and old gaskets, you would have lost a liter of oil in _6_ miles!
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:35:25 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 307 heads

I believe that the 5a heads were dropped and 7a heads
> brought in after 85.  

That's about the size of it.  In the performance line of the mid-80's
307, the HP ratings for the 83/84 H/O and 85 442 were 180, and they
essentially ran the same specification drivetrain.  These engines had a
flat-tappet cam, ala "old-style" V-8s, while their cousin "Y" blocks had
roller-lifters.  The 5a heads were installed last on the 85's, then in
86 the 7a heads hit the streets.  In 86, they seemed to have done
something to the trans/engine combo to smooth its shift and lessen
horsepower by 10 (probably due to the head change).  Wonder why?  I
guess they thought 21 mpg in a hard-shiftin 442 wasn't good enough?

But don't try to compare mid 80's stock performance to the muscle car
(salad) days.  It just is no comparison.  However, I do commend
Oldsmobile for trying to save their muscle image in the H/O's and
442's.  Looking back, it seemed as if Olds was in a "mid-life" crisis,
trying to recapture the youthful market one last time, pushing aside
it's normally poshy image for just a while, long enough to bark the
tires in that one last rwd..........the Cutlass GT.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:00:56 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: [none]

>Subject: Re: The list people and their cars
>
>1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
>with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.)
>White & Turquoise
>Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame

OK, I give up; what are you talking about?

A "hardtop convertible"?
A RWD _1995_ Olds 88?
A unibody car with a body and frame?

Or am I missing something here?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:07:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: LEDZEP442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Englishtown, NJ

My Uncle is going to Englishtown.
He is gonna drag his blue ' 70 442 W-30 there.

Bob
1966 f-85

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:06:54 -0700
From: Erik Nowacki <enowacki@titan.com>
Subject: Re: 

>>1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
>>with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.)
>>White & Turquoise
>>Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame
>
>OK, I give up; what are you talking about?
>
>A "hardtop convertible"?
>A RWD _1995_ Olds 88?
>A unibody car with a body and frame?
>
>Or am I missing something here?

Dr. Bob,

	You are missing the need to do a frame off restoration of a car that is 2
years old.  That's a little excessive, don't you think.

Erik Nowacki
San Diego
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:17:23 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Valve cover question

mrhell@m1.sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> >Today at the wrecking yard there was a '72 Vista Cruiser with a 350 engine
> >that had the valve covers with the raised "Oldsmobile" stamping.  Would
> >these valve covers be correct for my 1970 442 W-30, or were they later than
> >1970 ?
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> I know those "stamped" valve covers are at least 1973 or later.  I seriously
> looked at a 1973 H/O (all stock).  It too had these type of covers.  Might
> be worth picking up even if you don't want to put the on your car.

Yeah, they were on my '73 CS too. I took 'em off and put some chrome
ones on.

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft© Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:16:35 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: 

A 95 Olds 88 convertible with 455???? I want to see this!

> >
> >1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
> >with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.)
> >White & Turquoise
> >Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame

- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:16:53 -0500
From: NORM KARLSON <NKARLSON@WORDTECH.COM>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geo679@aol.com
Subject: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M LOOKING FOR AN OLD MUSCLE CAR IN GOOD OR DESCENT SHAPE. CHEVELLES IMPALAS
CUTLASS, SUPREMES, 442'S, BUICK GS OR WILDCATS, MALIBUS, CAMAROS, OR ANY
OTHER GM MUSCLE CAR IN A RAG TOP PREFERABLY. I GREW UP IN MY POP'S 66
CHEVELLE SS RAG TOP AND IT WAS FAST. HAD A 396 PUSHING 450 HORSE, A 4 SP.
HEADERS W/ MUFFLERS, NO PIPES, 8IN. LIFT TO IT. HAD A 4:11 POSI REAR. WOULD
DO WHEEL STANDS FROM STOP SIGNS. IF ANYONE CAN FIND A CAR LIKE I LISTED
PLEASE MAIL ME BACK. I'D PREFER A RAG TOP BUT HARDTOP WILL DO. THANKS.
                                        GEORGE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:58:51 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: RE: misc stuffs

DING - DING - DING - DING - DING!

In this corner,...swinging a "ford tool" (hammer) and beating-up 
defenseless vw chassis' and engine blocks.......CHRIS (who says I need 
tact) WITT!


and in this corner,...taking great offense by being used as a "don't do 
that" example................Bobby (I'm not a SOB) Etzel!



Come on, battle it out privately.  Besides, Greg is the one that should 
be complaining about Bandwidth.  After all it's his problem to deal with 
not the members.  (Although we can surely help)  

Just to make a brief comment, we should all get in the habit to delete 
any and all unnecessary text when responding to a post.  It's not that 
hard of a thing to do.  For anyone not sure how to "cut text", here's one 
of many ways to do :

click and hold down the left mouse button, then drag cursor to block in 
all unwanted text into a high-lighted "block".  (let go of mouse button) 
then click on "EDIT" and pick "CUT".  There, whole process took about 7 
seconds.

And now we return you to our regularly scheduled Oldsmobile list......


RC Hellebuyck   

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:03:52 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re:what are you talking about

hey doc, maybe he meant a fake convertible top???

as for the "RWD 95' Olds 88",   I have no idea!?!


RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:54:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

hey....there's nothin wrong with your saddle interior....i kinda liek
it.....besides....not to many cars have the saddle interior.
my $.02

brent
1967 cutlass convertible

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:55:45 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: power steering box

How difficult/expensive is it to replace a power steering box on
a 1982 Olds Delta Royale.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:58:57 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: hardtop convertible

Whaaaaat ????

	Just what is a hardtop convertible anyway ?????? And do unibody  cars
have frames - and how did those dual quads fit in there - and still be a
sleeper


				The General

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:58:57 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: hardtop convertible

Whaaaaat ????

	Just what is a hardtop convertible anyway ?????? And do unibody  cars
have frames - and how did those dual quads fit in there - and still be a
sleeper


				The General

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:06:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

In a message dated 97-10-10 10:36:57 EDT, you write:

<<  Regarding the first post I mentioned.  Aren't opinions the
 reason why we are on this list in the first place?  If this list was only
 open to factual, confirmable statements, it would be a pretty bleak place. 
 If I wanted facts, I could get a book.  Sure, answers are what we are
 looking for, but dialog and conversational input are essential to the
 making of a pleasant email list.  If someone asked the color of a
 particular engine, and somebody else replyed just "Blue", that would be
 pretty bland.  The stories and personal experiences are what make the list
 an interesting place to be! 
 
 Yeah, yeah, I'll get off the stage.  Ow!  Alright, I'm goin!  Watch where
 you're puttin that--Oww!
 -- 
 Jason K. Adcock
 jadcock@vt.edu >>

True there is a time and a place for everything, and I guess that also 
means reading between the lines. And the difference between facts 
and opinions.  Lets try 2 examples and see if we can understand what 
I meant by what I said about facts and opinions.

Example 1:  Whats the best color to paint a 68 442 Convertible?

Example 2:  Someone told me if I dropped some BB's down my
                    carb my car would run a lot better, what do you "think"?

There are a lot of times Im "reasonably sure" of the correct answer,
but I hold back because of the chance of being wrong, and I do not
want someone to give me a wrong answer and therefore try not to
give someone else a wrong answer because a wrong answer is wrong.
I honestly think that the majority of the people on the list don't have
the books or sources you referred to that have the information they
are asking for or else they would just look.  I could ramble on now
but I'll sto

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: engineering question

In a message dated 97-10-10 10:41:01 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
 
 >  Neat how the accelerations at 5000 rpm are 100x those at 500 rpm. 800,000
 >  in/s/s vs. 8,000 in/s/s...
 > AAHHH, Chris wouldnt that be 10x??
 
 According to his numbers there, 8,000 X 100 = 800,000.
 
 Why would it only be 10x?
 
 -- 
 Jason K. Adcock
 jadcock@vt.edu >>

I guess I was thinking that 500rpm x100 is 50, 000 rpm. So if
500rpm x10 is 5000rpm, then 8,000

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:23:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: GPMTRADER@aol.com
Subject: Re: hardtop convertible

A hardtop convertible started with the mid-50's Ford models that had a
hardtop that could be removed mechanically very much like the "rag-top
converticles today.

Instead of being folder into the boot behind the rear seat, the hardtop was
hidden in the "trunk: area.  These cars had no trunks when the roof was
removed.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 17:01:46
From: Chris Matthes <cdogg73@elknet.net>
Subject: Re: 73 442

At 07:44 AM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I saw a 1973 442 on my travels the other day.  The guy may be selling
>it.  All I know is that it has dual exhausts and a 350.  Can anyone 
>offer any more information about this type of 442?
>
>Chris Sparks
>
well, what would you like to know...

I have one, its awfully stubborn at times, but, for my money its the
sweetest car on the planet!

Chris Matthes
73 Cutlass
67 C/s

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: TH-200-4R's

In a message dated 97-10-09 17:33:45 EDT, you write:

<<  He said he bought a 200-4R at a junkyard for $175 and
 had it "Grand Nationalized" for about $200.  Not a bad deal at all to step
 into the overdrive advantages.  He chose the 200 over the 700-R4 because,
 in his experience, the 200 holds up better and can handle more torque.  
 Ray >>

The 200 also has a lower first gear and a better overdrive gear.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:58:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: IBDEA@aol.com
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

Everybody EXHALE!!!!!!!
                      Bob peters

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:25:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: '78 Delta 88 parts needed... ('77+ B/C/D waterleak)

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> same batch! Mine doesn't leak water around the windshield top, but I do 
> have a little drip onto the floormat under the dash after a heavy rain, 
> near the heater box. Gotta check that out soon.

I recently repaired this exact problem on a friend's '77 Custom Cruiser.
Remove the 8 or so 1/4" hex bolts securing the air inlet grill.  While
looking down towards the air intake area for the blower fan, you should
observe a join in the plastic/fibreglass(?) case.  The original seal has
probably dried out; in this case, applying silicon sealer along the
junction stopped any further water penetration.  A caulking gun is too
bulky to manoeuvre in  this area so it was necessary to dab some silicon
on a finger and apply it manually.  The amount of water entering the car
was sometimes enough to completely fill a pant-saver mat!

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 18:02:44 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 

     
         Rocketeers,
                I recently replaced interiors in my 67' 442 (clone) and my
        brothers 71' Delorean (clone). Anyone with questions can EMAIL 
        me direct.
     
     Ummmmm....I have a question.  I assume you mean a 1981 Delorean, but 
     what's a Delorean (clone)?  Is that like a kit car?
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 18:12:07 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Draft Tube (?) 56 Rocket

..automakers used a HOMCV (Hit or Miss Crankcase Ventilation)...
     
     LOL :-)
     
With the draft-tube system,...it's so long is to keep water and 
creepy-crawly things out of the crankcase.
     
     It should be possible to bend up something temporarily to serve the 
     same function.
     
>Who is right? 
     
You are right. I can't imagine that an engine-shop wouldn't know the basic 
principles of crankcase ventilation,...
     
     Just a wild guess here, but I'd be willing to bet that the personnel 
     working at the engine shop in question have probably never even seen a 
     draft tube.  I don't know about Europe, but most mechanics I've had 
     the "pleasure" of dealing with probably couldn't even explain the 
     theory behind a PCV system.  Thus the reason why I do all my own work 
     on my cars.
     
..The best alternative, though the least-original, would be to work in a 
PCV valve,...
     
     Did the 64 394s have a PCV system?  (I'm unfortunately forced to 
     admit my ignorance of the early engines)  Would these valve covers 
     bolt to a 56?

 __________________________________________________________
Bob Barry               MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
     
1969 Toronado                 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX         455/TH400 
1978 Electra Limited         409/TH400
     
     Doc, new .sig file?  Is there some significance to this, as I remember 
     your transition to the previous one.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 18:24:18 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: "Hardtop Convertibles"

Someone originally wrote:

>1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper...)
     
Dr. Bob of the multiple .sig files asked:

OK, I give up; what are you talking about?
     
A "hardtop convertible"?
A RWD _1995_ Olds 88?
A unibody car with a body and frame?
     
Or am I missing something here?

     To which I answered (after appropriately trimming):
     
     I haven't seen a reply from the original poster, but I'd be willing to 
     bet you're missing the typo which makes it a 1965 Olds 88...or perhaps 
     a dyslexic 1959 Olds 88...
     
     And in response to the following:
     
"Instead of being folder into the boot behind the rear seat, the hardtop 
was hidden in the "trunk: area.  These cars had no trunks when the roof was 
removed."

     Uh, no, not quite true.  The F*rd Retractable Hardtop actually had a 
     small bin (say, about 3'x 3'x 3') in the trunk into which you could 
     place articles before lowering the top.  The metal roof actually came 
     down around this bin, providing some (if limited) trunk space.
     
     Of course, Olds never built one of these, so the mystery remains...
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:30:21 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: power steering box

Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
> 
> How difficult/expensive is it to replace a power steering box on
> a 1982 Olds Delta Royale.
> 
> ChrisI guess it depends on your variety of tools you have at your 
disposal...and of course...mechanical abilty....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 18:32:10 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: CCR All-Olds Show This Sunday 

     October 12, 1997 - 9th ANNUAL ALL OLDSMOBILE FALL SHOW.
     
     
     Brad,
     
     What time does it start?
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:32:24 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 

Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician wrote:
> 
> A 95 Olds 88 convertible with 455???? I want to see this!
> 
> > >
> > >1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
> > >with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.)
> > >White & Turquoise
> > >Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
> Highland Community College
> Phone (815) 235-6121
> Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
> -------------------------------------------------------
> "Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"what a waste of a good motor...or is this a fantasy...to each his 
own....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:47:24 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible rear interior panels [was Re: 1970 SX engine information]

Robert Barry wrote:
> 
> >...now...where can I locate some 68 to 72
> >convertible rear door panels.....hmmmmmmmm.....Hoagie
> 
> If you're talking about the interior vinyl panels, I believe these are
> available reproduction from some of the larger suppliers, i.e. Year One,
> Fusick, Paddock, etc. I'm imagining that they're likely made by the same
> company, but sold through these different outlets, as the applications
> listed by each company are virtually identical.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with the quality of these panels? I'll be
> redoing the entire interior of my SX (probably in black, though I'm open to
> suggestions), and will be purchasing new surface vinyl all around.
> _______________________________________________________
> Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
> Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918



Bob,
	I have 2k worth of year One interior pieces sitting in my 
bedroom closet ready to go in this car....1 Problem...I need the STEEL 
inner pieces that come on an old set of door panels to fit these..I 
threw away the old 1's because I read in Parts USA catalog where they 
came COMPLETELY assembled....well...being the sap that I am...I threw 
the old rear door panels away...now I need the steel inner peices to put 
these together....so...any help in this matter would be GREATLY 
appreciated!!!....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:12:02 PDT
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: Air Cleaners...

Man, where is everyone today???? Anyway...just to start up a discussion, 
If I take off the stock aircleaner housing from my '86 CS, and put on 
like an Edelbrock open element cleaner, the car would run fine right? 
The edelbrock housing says it has EGR knockout holes...so I figured I 
could get away with it...just make sure to keep my stock housing for 
emissions later on...
	2nd, What type of filter does anyone reccommend...are K&N filters 
really as good as the reveiws claim to be, less restriction and all that 
jazz...just wondering...I need to do something to wake up the ole 307 
until I can save up enough to get the 350 I'm looking at having built 
for me.... :) Talk to ya'll later...have fun at the car show if you are 
going...
John

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:14:36 -0500
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: Re: The list people and their cars

<I'm late but here goes:

OLDSMOBILES> and a list of 100 dream cars followed.

Nobody should own that many cars, let alone 3 W-machines. Can I use one
on its off days? 

Steven
'70 442 convertible

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:16:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Tell me if I miss anything!!!!!!!!!!

To my fellow Oldsmobuddies,
 My #$$#@!(*&^%$%$#@ computer is going back to the shop for repair. Ive been
off for a week, and missed alot of mail.  C-ya when it gets returned, happy
Oldsmobiling...................ROCKET POWER..............ROCKET OLDS
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!             
 Bernie....Cranford NJ
86 cutlass salon...71 350 t-tops
67 442 all the parts, awaiting resto
67 F-85 gotta fix them brakes......
69 Mach 1 390 4-spd

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:25:39 -0500
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: Re: try again

Thanks Mike and Danny, I found it and it matches my VIN.  Now for the
DUMB, DUMB, DUMB bad news.  I looked at the cowl tag again and realized
two of the series numbers are off. My VIN reads 344670M186885 the cowl
reads 34467LAN2996885. Just shows you as good as I looked over the car
in the excitement I must not have realiazed the error. This is why this
list is good for other things then just facts - I can vent my
frustration (stupidity).  Though I'm just upset with myself not the car.
I guess if it is not the original tag I then can do what I want with
paint and interior.

Steven
'70 442 convertible

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:19:14 -0700
From: Erik Nowacki <enowacki@titan.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 455 rocket

   
>     Really?  I've never owned (or even seen) a single exhaust big block, 
>     but the few service manuals I have seem to indicate that these motors 
>     use a "Y" pipe, not the manifold-to-manifold crossover pipe.  I always 
>     thought the dual-opening manifold was used on the small blocks only.  
>     What years used the crossover?
>     
>     Joe Padavano
>     padavano.joe@orbital.com

The 68 Delta 88 that was kind enough to donate its 455 for my VC had a
single exhaust with a manifold to manifold crossover pipe.  Now it breathes
through proper W/Z dual exhaust manifolds.

Erik Nowacki
San Diego
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:24:03 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: "Hardtop Convertibles"

padavano.joe wrote:
> 
> Someone originally wrote:
> 
> >1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper...)
> 
> Dr. Bob of the multiple .sig files asked:
> 
> OK, I give up; what are you talking about?
> 
> A "hardtop convertible"?
> A RWD _1995_ Olds 88?
> A unibody car with a body and frame?
> 
> Or am I missing something here?
> 
>      To which I answered (after appropriately trimming):
> 
>      I haven't seen a reply from the original poster, but I'd be willing to
>      bet you're missing the typo which makes it a 1965 Olds 88...or perhaps
>      a dyslexic 1959 Olds 88...
> 
>      And in response to the following:
> 
> "Instead of being folder into the boot behind the rear seat, the hardtop
> was hidden in the "trunk: area.  These cars had no trunks when the roof was
> removed."
> 
>      Uh, no, not quite true.  The F*rd Retractable Hardtop actually had a
>      small bin (say, about 3'x 3'x 3') in the trunk into which you could
>      place articles before lowering the top.  The metal roof actually came
>      down around this bin, providing some (if limited) trunk space.
> 
>      Of course, Olds never built one of these, so the mystery remains...
> 
>      Joe Padavano
>      padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
>      66 442
>      68 W-30
>      69 H/O
>      70 W-30



for the sake of arguement...a YUGO has a bigger 
trunk....bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,...Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:33:19 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 

>          Rocketeers,
>                 I recently replaced interiors in my 67' 442 (clone) and
my
>         brothers 71' Delorean (clone). Anyone with questions can EMAIL 
>         me direct.
>      
>      Ummmmm....I have a question.  I assume you mean a 1981 Delorean, but

>      what's a Delorean (clone)?  Is that like a kit car?
>      
>      Joe Padavano
>      
> 
	Joe,
> 		How soon we forget what auto maker John Delorean worked
	for. He was the creator of the Pontiac GTO. I mentioned this because
	the car is actually a Lemans Sport with a GTO front end and badges.
	The use of the word "Delorean" is my way of not saying Pontiac GTO
	(ooops !!)
				The General

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:26:52 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Convertible rear interior panels 

padavano.joe wrote:
> 
> 
>          Rocketeers,
>                 I recently replaced interiors in my 67' 442 (clone) and my
>         brothers 71' Delorean (clone). Anyone with questions can EMAIL
>         me direct.
> 
>      Ummmmm....I have a question.  I assume you mean a 1981 Delorean, but
>      what's a Delorean (clone)?  Is that like a kit car?
> 
>      Joe Padavano
>      padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
>      66 442
>      68 W-30
>      69 H/O
>      70 W-30


ummm.....71 delorean...isn't that a GTO....he worked for them.....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 19:46:33 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[4]: 455 rocket

     
The 68 Delta 88 that was kind enough to donate its 455 for my VC had a 
single exhaust with a manifold to manifold crossover pipe.  Now it breathes 
through proper W/Z dual exhaust manifolds.
     
Erik Nowacki

     Thanks to Erik, Doc Bob, and all who showed me the error of my ways.  
     As I noted originally, I've never actually owned a single-exhaust 455. 
     Ya learn somthin' every day...
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:05:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: SRDIET@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Hardtop Convertibles"

In a message dated 97-10-10 19:35:09 EDT, you write:

<< Subj:	 Re: "Hardtop Convertibles"
 
 padavano.joe wrote:
 > 
 > Someone originally wrote:
 > 1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper...)
 > Dr. Bob of the multiple .sig files asked:
 > OK, I give up; what are you talking about?
 > 
 > A "hardtop convertible"?
 > A RWD _1995_ Olds 88?
 > A unibody car with a body and frame?
 > Or am I missing something here?
 >    To which I answered (after appropriately trimming):
 >    I haven't seen a reply from the original poster, but I'd be willing to
 >     bet you're missing the typo which makes it a 1965 Olds 88...or perhaps
 >     a dyslexic 1959 Olds 88...


  I beleive the term "Hardtop Convertible" was used to describe 2 door cars
that did not have a "B" pillar, the post between the front and rear windows.
 This was used to describe mostly cars from the 50's.  We now use the phrase
coupe or sedan.

"1995 Olds "88" 2-door hardtop convertable (442-Sleeper - 455 Olds engine
with TH400, Dual Carter AFB's, MSD, balance& blueprinted, etc.) White &
Turquoise Complete restoration, but body not taken off frame"

  It also sounds like Mike may have made a typo here and this is not the
correct year.  Possibly a 1955, which would fit the term, hardtop conv.


Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.   

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:02:53 -0700
From: Gary Manton <sasgmm@unx.sas.com>
Subject: coolant overflow

I added some coolant to my '64 Dynamic 88 with a 394, and there is no
overflow tank.  It started smoking after a while, which I thought was just
the overflow hitting the engine.  It eventually started smoking a lot, and
then some rather annoying knocking.  I pulled off the road, and as I got to
the top of the exit ramp, she decided to die.  It was there that any lights
decided to come on, gen and oil.  The heat light never came on.  I burnt
most of my oil and it was pretty much dry.  I am looking for advice on two
topics, first if anyone has experienced this, and what might be the issues
to look for as I start to dissect the car.  Second, I will be looking for an
overflow tank for the radiator, and wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

Thanks,

G

ps.. Sorry for my naivety
          \\|//
          (o o)                     
~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gary M. Manton					SAS Institute
Business Solutions Division			Phoenix, AZ  85012
(602) 265-1616 ext. 230 - voice		        (602) 265-8585 - fax
						(888) 982-4079 - Pager

"In business as in life, your chances of being run over are doubled
if you stay in the middle of the road"
~~~~~~oooo~~~~~oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:21:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE:re:Updates and Questions -Reply

Still not sure why Laura's messages are bouncing... fowarding...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"LAURA D. STEINKE" <WPODOM1.HORT-FOREST.LSTEINKE@taexgw.tamu.edu>
Subject:  Re:Updates and Questions -Reply

>It's a temperature controlled switch of some sort, I guess.

Good, now I know what to order :)  

>Was this engine a '66?

No, apparently someone changed out the engine at some point in it's life.  I
looked yesterday armed with part of the FAQ for ID-ing the engine and
the tranny.  The engine is one of the common 455's produced 68-72...And
I want to thank whomever posted how to quick ID a 350 vs 400 tranny (I
had to look at the map to remember what Illinois looked like though <grin>).
 I wasn't looking forward to inching under the car and looking for numbers
to id it - which was a good thing as it turned out the clearance was too
low to do more than take a peek at it from the side.  The result, it looks like
Illinois to me so I guess it's a 400 <grin>  Though as soon as I *can* get
under it I'll start looking for the numbers just to make sure.

>Were there any vacuum ports on it as well?

Nope, though I looked again yesterday...it has only the two wires that
connect to the part that's broken 

>With two connections on it, though, it would have to be one of the older
>ones for operating a COLD light as well as a HOT light.

Yes, that may be it since I do have a hot and a cold light.

>> where it collects inside the door
>That's unusual.

I belive that is the worst door, I can usually open the door and swing it a
few times to force most of the water out (you can usually hear it
sloshing)

> Lie on the ground outside the car and check the underside of the door;
>there should be a few slots or drain holes there.

I'll check this after work today, assuming is isn't raining...again

>Also, the inside of the door panel should have some sort of tarpaper or
>plastic weathershield to protect the back of the interior panel from
>moisture.

It did, I'm sure it *was* tarpaper...unfortunatly it looks more like plain
brown paper now.  It's also rotted through most of the bottom half of it
because of the water sitting inside the doors.

>The weathershield normally tucks into the door at the bottom, through
>either the bottom-most access holes in the door or its own little slots
>below the access holes,

Well someone messed up on mine ;)  The paper looked like it was cut to
match the frame/door support and then glued/affixed somehow in place
on top of the frame, then the panel was put on.  It wasn't tucked in or
even glued to the inside of the door....

Soon as I get that temperature sensor fixed I plan on taking it for a nice
long drive because the engine is *finally* broken in...now where to drive it
to <grin>

Thanks
Laura

66 Delta 88 aka Pook

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: later factory AL intakes

Recommend, if you have 5A's, get an aluminum intake from Edelbrock or a
junkyard.  I have one from an 82 Custom Cruiser 307.  All may have been
aluminum, I don't know on that.
Thomas Martin
===============

In my experience, there are two variations of the smog-era AL intakes: larger
port like to match the 5A heads, and smaller port like to match the 260/7A
heads. They are cast-coded A5 & A4 in the depression just behind the front
coolant crossover.
A5 is jive- small ports
A4: gimme more! Ports Galore! [good for use w/ larger-port 5A, etc. ]

- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:27:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: WTB Muscle Car

Not a list member, so reply directly...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Geo679@aol.com
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M LOOKING FOR AN OLD MUSCLE CAR IN GOOD OR DESCENT SHAPE. CHEVELLES IMPALAS
CUTLASS, SUPREMES, 442'S, BUICK GS OR WILDCATS, MALIBUS, CAMAROS, OR ANY
OTHER GM MUSCLE CAR IN A RAG TOP PREFERABLY. I GREW UP IN MY POP'S 66
CHEVELLE SS RAG TOP AND IT WAS FAST. HAD A 396 PUSHING 450 HORSE, A 4 SP.
HEADERS W/ MUFFLERS, NO PIPES, 8IN. LIFT TO IT. HAD A 4:11 POSI REAR. WOULD
DO WHEEL STANDS FROM STOP SIGNS. IF ANYONE CAN FIND A CAR LIKE I LISTED
PLEASE MAIL ME BACK. I'D PREFER A RAG TOP BUT HARDTOP WILL DO. THANKS.
                                        GEORGE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 20:22:55 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: try again

     Steve,
     
     The last 6 digits of the cowl tag number normally do not match the 
     VIN.  These are Fisher Body identification numbers, used in the 
     manufacture of the body.  The cowl plate and the VIN do not match on 
     my 70 W-30, for example, but I know for a fact that the body is all 
     original.  Both are 34487... and both show Lansing build location.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:28:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Air Cleaners...

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Air Cleaners...

Man, where is everyone today???? Anyway...just to start up a discussion, 
If I take off the stock aircleaner housing from my '86 CS, and put on 
like an Edelbrock open element cleaner, the car would run fine right? 
The edelbrock housing says it has EGR knockout holes...so I figured I 
could get away with it...just make sure to keep my stock housing for 
emissions later on...
	2nd, What type of filter does anyone reccommend...are K&N filters 
really as good as the reveiws claim to be, less restriction and all that 
jazz...just wondering...I need to do something to wake up the ole 307 
until I can save up enough to get the 350 I'm looking at having built 
for me.... :) Talk to ya'll later...have fun at the car show if you are 
going...
John

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:31:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: try again

On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Steven Saraceno wrote:
> DUMB, DUMB, DUMB bad news.  I looked at the cowl tag again and realized
> two of the series numbers are off. My VIN reads 344670M186885 the cowl
> reads 34467LAN2996885. Just shows you as good as I looked over the car
> in the excitement I must not have realiazed the error. This is why this
> list is good for other things then just facts - I can vent my
> frustration (stupidity).  Though I'm just upset with myself not the car.
> I guess if it is not the original tag I then can do what I want with
> paint and interior.

I don't think this is a problem. The VIN doesn't match the body tag 
number anyway since the two numbers are not supposed to correspond. The 
"LAN" number is the body sequence number, nothing at all to do with the 
VIN. I'd say you have everything as it is supposed to be.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:37:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE:re:Updates and Questions -Reply

On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Laura D. Steinke wrote:
> I belive that is the worst door, I can usually open the door and swing it a
> few times to force most of the water out (you can usually hear it
> sloshing)
> 
> > Lie on the ground outside the car and check the underside of the door;
> >there should be a few slots or drain holes there.

A couple of weeks ago I heard water in one of the rear doors of the 
Delta. Looked underneath, and both drain holes were blocked with old 
rustproofing gunk. Poked it out with a twig, and at least a quart of 
water drained onto the driveway. Good advice: watch those drain holes, 
make sure they're open.

> It did, I'm sure it *was* tarpaper...unfortunatly it looks more like plain
> brown paper now.  It's also rotted through most of the bottom half of it
> because of the water sitting inside the doors.
> Well someone messed up on mine ;)  The paper looked like it was cut to
> match the frame/door support and then glued/affixed somehow in place
> on top of the frame, then the panel was put on.  It wasn't tucked in or
> even glued to the inside of the door....

Last week when we dismantled that junkqueyarde Delta I took a full set of 
the inner liners, mostly because they were there, since I assume my car 
has them already. They were a brown paper on one side, black on the 
other. Held to the inner door sheetmetal with black tape and a bead of 
black sealer. Sounds like you have what you are supposed to have, except 
for the rot...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:45:00 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Air Cleaners...

> From:   "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
>
> The edelbrock housing says it has EGR knockout holes...so I figured I
> could get away with it...just make sure to keep my stock housing for
> emissions later on...

John, I guess I'm just mixed up on my terms.  Isn't an open element air
cleaner just a plate, a filter, and a lid?  If it had cutouts for EGR, how
would that air get filtered (or has it already been filtered)?  If the
cutouts were outside the filter, how would that air get "into" the filter
without a closed-in air cleaner (i.e. stock-style)?  Regarding the K&N
filter's actual benefit, I haven't found much.  Because the 307 doesn't
make much power, it isn't restricted by the intake or the exhaust enough to
make an intake or exhaust modification worth the money, in my experiences
(although an Edelbrock muff and dual exhaust does sound suprisingly
throaty...).  I calculated the CFM of the carb/air cleaner assembly (based
on a formula in Doug Roe's book, Rochester Caruretors) and found it to be
around 333 CFM.  Doesn't a stock AC filter flow at least this good?

Just my $0.02...

- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:07:05 -0400
From: Joe Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: looking for 1, SS I wheel

mrhell@m1.sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> Still looking for one, SS I wheel in EC.  I have one, SS II wheel,
> (painted saturn gold), to trade or to sell. (no tire)
> 
> The above is for my spare.  I don't believe my SS II has ever been
> driven on since it was painted.
> 
> This is yet another knit-pick detail on my "finished list"!  (the list
> of things I want to do before I declare my car done)
> 
> RC Hellebuyck
> 1971 4-4-2 covt.

I saw this add the other day in a magazine for reproduction wheels.
1968-74 Olds SSI/II..1968-74 Magnum 500 Ford & Chrysler..1968-74 Buick
Ralley Wheels..1968-74 Chevelle, Camaro, Corvette..
Prices range from $92.50 to $175.00.
Contact:
Coker Tire
1317 Chestnut St.
Chattanooga, TN
800-251-6336

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:08:33 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: try again

> Thanks Mike and Danny, I found it and it matches my VIN.  Now for the
> DUMB, DUMB, DUMB bad news.  I looked at the cowl tag again and realized
> two of the series numbers are off. My VIN reads 344670M186885 the cowl
> reads 34467LAN2996885. 

As a few have already pointed out, these numbers will not match.

> I guess if it is not the original tag I then can do what I want with
> paint and interior.

You CAN do what you want with it anyway!  It is, after all, your car. 
The only time you need to "follow" the tag is if you are going for a
full restoration with plans on a national show (winning) car.  My car
was originally silver with black stripes.  A previous owner painted it
black with silver W30 stripes.  I like it better this way, but may
change the color to something I like more. 
If you follow the philosophy that you can't change the color because it
won't match the tag, you won't be able to do ANY modifications.  Forget
the HEI distributor or the chrome valve covers or the better cam or the
larger exhaust or a coolant recovery bottle or modern tires or...well,
you get the picture.

Just my 2¢

- -- 
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:17:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: I was grouchy!

OK, OK, maybe SOB was a strong phrasing. I did not intend it to be mean, more
like the "sumbitch" kinda jesting name calling.

In order to explain, if that is possible, why I was grouchy...

my email is done with the world's oldest lamest software. Text on a half-screen
window. No backing up. Obscure command keys w/ no menus. And, to make life more
unbearable, every so often I get a    S     L     O      W  connection where I
literally get a line or three, then wait 1-3 minutes for the next few lines.
Imagine slogging thru an 1800 line digest like this. Now imagine that you are
blessed with 3 screens, about 10 minutes worth of waiting, of one post after
another which is nothing but

- --50 lines or copy that has been seen 100x already
- --"yeah, me, too!"

What joy, huh?

That's why I was so grouchy.

Now you can understand why it so very important to some of us that each of us
makes that extra effort to TRIM THE FAT.
- --
Chris  B. Witt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: J2ROCKET@aol.com
Subject: Re: hardtop convertible

     Hey General,       My theory on the old term "hardtop convertible" has
always been that the cars were originally designed to "look" like a
convertible in the window area on the sides. They had no doorposts and gave
the cars the illusion of length, which was the styling trend in the late
fortys thru the early seventies. I believe that the hardtop style was done by
G.M. designer Harley Earl , but I am not sure, maybe someone else on the list
knows for sure. Anyway, growing up in the fifties as a kid, I heard the term
"hardtop convertible" all the time. The idea was a car with convertible
styling, no leaking canvas top to age and look bad, and not suffer
depreciation as much. Convertibles are worth a lot today as old collectibles,
but back then they were usually listed as hunting and fishing cars when they
were 4 to 6 years old.  I am sure that the ad that was placed was not a 1995
year model. I believe the last G.M. fullsize hardtop models were built in
1972. After that they all had fixed side doorposts. Is there any other input
on this out there?                      J2 ROCKET        - 57 OLDS SUPER 88
(hardtop)                55 OLDS SUPER 88 (hardtop)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:20:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Voting: divide & conquer?

On this web page favorite car thing:

May i suggest that it's a ploy to split the Olds votes so that some other make
can win? Divide & conquer, all that.

If it's possible, we might be wise to pick one car to all vote for this week.
Thus ENSURING back-back Olds wins.

I humbly submit Handren's 67 as the choice, having seen it. Not to detract from
the other car, mind you!
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:25:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Light Bulbs

After having replaced the dash bulbs on the Delta that were burned out,
the lighting looks a little goofy. The speedo lights seem dim, as do the
clock lights and the floodlight for the lighter. There are only 3 bulbs I
can find for the speedo and I figure it's just not enough oomph. The clock
is small but has 2 bulbs, yet it still looks dim. The ashtray, heater and
wiper switch lights seem right, while the accessory switch floodlight is
way too bright, because I couldn't find a #756 bulb and am using an 1893
instead. That got me to thinking: what bulbs could I substitute to adjust
the situation? 

I checked the only reference I could find -- the service manual lists 
candlepower ratings for each bulb used. Here's what I came up with:

Bulb #	Candlepower

93	15
161	1
168	3
194	2
211	12
212	6
216	2
558	7
562	6
564	2
631	6
756	0.31
906	6
1003	15
1445	0.7
1816	3
1891	2	
1893	2

There is no pattern that I can see to the bulb numbers. An 1891 and 1893 
look the same and have the same rating, but the 1891 looks a lot brighter 
to the naked eye. The 756 looks identical to both but is clearly a lot less 
bright. The 161, 168 and 194s also look the same externally, but are of 
different brightnesses. 

Does anyone have any other cross-references that show what bulbs are 
substitable for each other but with differing candlepower ratings?
 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:26:21 -0600
From: "Travis Adams" <cashmore@imt.net>
Subject: 65 442 performance

For anyone interested, I recently purchased a G-Tech/Pro to get a handle on
what my car is capable of.  Basically the unit is about the size of a match
box.  It plugs into your cigarette lighter.  It will compute 1/4 mile
et/mph, 0-60, 60-0, rear wheel hp, and g's (braking, accelerating,
cornering).  It is a nifty little unit.  I have only been able to make one
run with it so far but at least I have some sort of baseline to use after I
complete my build up.  My car ran a 14.67 @ 97 mph.  Not bad but I know it
will do better.  Had a terrible launch and either my fuel pump or ignition
won't hold the top end.  It bogged pretty bad right at the end.
	For more info check there web page www.gtechpro.com.  If you have
questions e-mail me privately and I will try to fill you in as I get more
familiar with it.

Travis Adams
65 442 post

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:29:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: piston motion

 Neat how the accelerations at 5000 rpm are 100x those at 500 rpm. 800,000
 in/s/s vs. 8,000 in/s/s...
 --
 Chris  B. Witt
 *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
 wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
  >>
AAHHH, Chris wouldnt that be 10x??
===============
Nope, not according to the calculations.  Also, accelerations tend to vary with
the square of rotational speed. Now, we are talking linear motion induced from
rotary motion, so it's not real simple, but similar to just a spinning device.

Thus, 500 rpm x 10 ==> 5000 rpm
      8000 units of acc'n ==> 800,000 units.

So, 8000 vs 6000 rpm: greater by a factor of 8/6 or 1.33 or 33% higher speed,
which induces peak accelerations greater by... 78% !
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:54:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: original frame?

From: steven@purplemonkey.com   (Steven Saraceno)
Are there any other key numbers/clues on a '70 442 convertible that would tell
me if it is the original frame and body.

My VIN, Cowl tag and engine number match but I
have a gut feeling thay were dropped on a Cutlass body. Steven
- ---------------
[[Huh? pretty rare indeed if the cowl tag has a body sequence number that
matches the car's VIN sequence number! Or, did you mean just the body style
portion matches on VIN & body plate? Now, the engine's stamped VIN derivative
should match the car's VIN sequential number. The trans should have a similar
number stamped on it. If AT, it should have the correct-for-442 code on the
tag, too. ]]

...
Convertible frames have extra metal welded on them.
- ---------------
[[ This extra metal makes the standard car frame's C shape in cross section
into a fully boxed section, more like an O albeit with one side pretty short.
Much stronger. Then again, it could still be a CUTLASS convertible frame even
if this point is alright. ]]

...
if the frame is orginal. Danny
number stamped on the frame rail on the driver side. That would tell you
...
The frame numbers are on the drivers side frame about 6 inches from were the
frame turns in toward the front tire.  The numbers are almost dead center of
the frame on the outside.  The numbers are also larger than the stamping on
the block and transmission, but still the same type of sequence.
3-oldsmobile 0-year M-plant 123456-sequence number. 30m123456
- ---------------
WOW, now THAT's great info. I have never heard of this not even in the factory
service manuals. So, does this go back to '68? Any other 'secret hidden
locations' for the VIN?

And, suppose your frame has this number, it matches your VIN. That *still* does
not prove that the *body* was not originally a Cutlass. Then again, does it
even matter? I mean, the factory used the same bodies, right, called one a
Cutlass, put a Cutlass VIN plate on it, called another a 442, put a 442 VIN
plate in place. What's the diff, and who cares? Who can even tell? Not us,
apparently.

Now... are the VIN plate rivets correct-looking: like pop rivets with scallops
around the edge? If not, I'd suspect a VIN plate swap. Even if so, does not
rule out a clever VIN plate swap. I have even seen VIN plates attached by
rivets from -underneath-. Too much hassle to remove the windshield I guess.

So, get some buckets and make your car act like its body tag.
Don't suppose the build sheet is oh, atop the fuel tank or something?
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #897
********************************

