To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #821


oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, August 27 1997      Volume 01 : Number 821



Re: More Lansing Pics!
Re: More Lansing Pics!
Re: More Lansing Pics!
Re: Thanks for tire info
UNBOUNCE: 403 vs 350
Re: DBL scoop air cleaner
442's at Lansing on the Bridge & hot starts
Re: DBL scoop air cleaner
Live Sex..NO VIDEO DELAY..Like TV!|
Seeing double (Formerly Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner)
Re: DBL scoop air cleaner
The Great Olds Lansing Show...
Remove
Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?
LANSING pics UPDATE & important message !
Re: DBL scoop air cleaner
Live Sex..NO VIDEO DELAY..Like TV!|
(no subject)
Re: Remove
Re: delta 88s II
Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]
Lansing story
Re: Lansing story
Re: Lansing stories
Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Re: Good-bye LANSING
Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertible
non Olds but funny
Greg's Diary
Re: Build Sheets
Re: Lansing stories
Re: Remove
Live Sex..NO VIDEO DELAY..Like TV!|
Re: Delta 88
Re: Good-bye LANSING
Re: Build Sheets
Re: 70 442 seatbelts
Olds Inquiry - 1938
Starfire inquiry
Re: delta 88s II
'68-'69 Olds Parts for sale
RE: 1969 delta 88
Re: Repo OAI hoods
68 442 in Birmingham, AL - $1,800
Re: 403 vs 350
Re: DBL scoop air cleaner
Re: Repo OAI hoods

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:19:05 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: More Lansing Pics!

Andrew A. Senko wrote:
>
> Hey all!
>
> I scanned some pictures today from the Lansing trip.

> That being said, what I've done is place the pictures in a directory with
> no HTML file.  When you enter the URL in your browser, it will simply
> display the list of files.

Um, what's the URL?  I couln't find a link from your page.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser
`67 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:13:10 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: More Lansing Pics!

Greg Pruett wrote:

> Um, what's the URL?  I couln't find a link from your page.

What Greg said! I thought I was losing my mind there trying to find it! (:

Sparky
- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:14:53 -0400
From: Nick Lamboy <nlamboy@global2000.net>
Subject: Re: More Lansing Pics!

Greg Pruett wrote:
>
> Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> >
> > Hey all!
> >
> > I scanned some pictures today from the Lansing trip.
>
> > That being said, what I've done is place the pictures in a directory with
> > no HTML file.  When you enter the URL in your browser, it will simply
> > display the list of files.
>
> Um, what's the URL?  I couln't find a link from your page.
>
> Greg Pruett
> `72 Vista Cruiser
> `67 Cutlass Supreme
A never they way in either and I would really like to see the 87 laying
down some rubber
Nick lamboy
83 H/O

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:12:09 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire info

Proietto, Fernando [Ontario] wrote:
>
> Again my info is hearsay, so there it is P245/60R14 don't rub upfront.
> Kurt, how does the front steering feel turning  over bumpy surfaces.?
> Can you feel the sidewalls of the tire shift from side to side?

I need to do a front end rebuild, but the tires are fine.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:35:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 403 vs 350

Joe, you gotta use your rocketmail account if you want to post now; due
to the closed list thing.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:Tue, 26 Aug 97 20:34:55 -0500
From:"padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@orbital.com>
Subject: 403 vs 350

i own a 403 that i am willing to sell and i was thinking around $375.  it is
a complete motor and it runs.  where are you located?  is it possible to send
an engine through the mail?  i am currently rebuilding the 350 (not for sale)
to replace the 403.  i think that the 350 is a faster engine compared to the
403 and only 5 HP difference.  with some aftermarket parts i will have 5+ HP
without the weight of the bigger motor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     OK, there are a few flaws in this logic.

     First, both the 403 and the 350 are SMALL BLOCK Olds motors.  External
     dimensions are identical.  Heads, manifolds, and all accessories are
     interchangeable.  They use virtually the same block casting, resulting
     in motor weights which are probably within a couple of pounds of each
     other.

     Second, all else being equal (and it really isn't, due to things like
     rod length, bore to stroke ratio, breathing capability of the heads,
     etc.), the engine with more cubic inches will have more horsepower.
     Those same aftermarket parts you plan to install on your 350 will bolt
     right up to the 403, producing a similar gain in performance.

     Third, I'm not sure where you get the 5 HP difference.  Is this from
     factory HP ratings?  If so, keep in mind the potential differences in
     smog equipment, cam profile, intake and exhaust, etc.  Again, with
     comparable cams (you _were_ going to install a new one during the
     rebuild, weren't you?) and intake/exhaust manifolds (interchangeable
     between the two motors, as noted above), the 403 should make
     significantly more HP and torque than the 350.

     The one fly in this ointment is the notorious "windowed" blocks used
     on the 403.  Most (all? - sorry, I'm more familiar with big blocks)
     350s have solid webs around the crank bearings, resulting in excellent
     strength.  The 403, having been designed during the downsizing of the
     1970s, has "windows" (basically, lightening holes) in these webs to
     save weight (ironically for your argument, the 403 is probably lighter
     than the 350 because of this).  As you might imagine, these windows
     don't exactly enhance the strength of the block for high-horsepower
     applications.  Of course, having said that, I would be surprised if
     these windows caused you a problem in almost any street-driven motor
     you might imagine.  I suspect only a really gonzo high-output motor
     would be compromised by the windowed block.

     Just remember:  The only substitute for cubic inches is rectangular
     dollars.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:30:03 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: DBL scoop air cleaner

The Sugarmans wrote:
>
> Hi, OldsFolks
>
> I've been watching the thread on the double scoop air cleaners, since I
> posted the vague description of mine.  There were a couple of references
> to what kind of air cleaner my son's car really has.

Ooh boy.  That one looks weird.  I can tell you this much, it is NOT
from a 69-up Olds 442.  It MAY be, and I mean MAY be, something from an
older model Toro, or Delta, or something like that.  There is no sign of
an AC Thermac unit on the inlets, which was standard on late 60's
styles.  It's cool looking though, whatever it is.  Any Toro heads want
a crack at this one????

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:42:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: 442's at Lansing on the Bridge & hot starts

Hello Oldsmobilers!
I was really impressed by Oldsmobile and the city of Lansing! It was all
great! I really enjoyed driving the car up to Lansing! I went in the caravan.
For me the best part was the 442's up on the bridge! I had the silver with
blue stripes w31. There were nice wmachines up there! I was really suprised
that Oldsmobile had nothing to do with
Dr. Oldsmobile! He was there walking around and signing autographs! Did
anybody see my car? Did you see anything that looked wrong?
My second question is hot starts! I have heard about heat shields from year
one and I was wondering what to do. If you have put a heat shield or know how
to stop hot starts tell me!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:45:16 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: DBL scoop air cleaner

Mike Rothe wrote:

> Any Toro heads want a crack at this one????

Sure! I missed the URL. Please re-post and I'll check it out.

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

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From: 64937840@14738.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:53:47 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Seeing double (Formerly Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner)

For anyone wanting to try their hand in figuring this one, here's a
repost of the URL:

http://www.berkshire.net/~sugarman/airclenr.jpg

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:06:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: DBL scoop air cleaner

On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Greg Kalkhoff wrote:

> Mike Rothe wrote:
>
> > Any Toro heads want a crack at this one????
>
> Sure! I missed the URL. Please re-post and I'll check it out.
>

http://www.berkshire.net/~sugarman/airclenr.jpg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 22:07:34 -0500
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: The Great Olds Lansing Show...

I have really enjoyed many of the stories of the show on the list, I read
every word of every sentence of every paragraph of Greg Beaulieu's diary
pages. What a great job! Brought back lots of memories...

I really enjoyed meeting so many of you at the meeting (Thursday night?).
Mark Prince and I both wished we had brought our cars to the event but we
both had made plans to go to the Auction that night. Sure wish I had
bought my "S" over for the pictures... The auction was really cool, it
was amazing how much money was being spent! I believe auction proceeds
went to the Olds Museum, a great cause. Does anybody know the final tally
for the night? BTW - I really wanted one of those neon Rockets and the
Rocket steak branding iron.

I rounded up David Brown and Karl Aune for some fun at TGIF's near
Holiday Inn West. Thanks guys, had lots of fun talkin' about those
Oldsmobiles and going fast.

I did my part of draining my wallet at the swap meet and some other deals:
- - NOS Rear license bracket.
- - 1972 Manufacturers license plate.
- - OCA rear license plate retainer.
- - Two 15" x 7" SSII rims (III?, I forget) w/ bolt on center cap. These
will house those nifty Goodrich Drag Radials this winter after a total
restoration of the rims.
- - Great jacket, back says "On the Gas and Kickin' A**! Real Men Drive
Oldsmobile" with a picture of the Dr. and a supercharged 69' 442
w/billowing smoke at the wheel wells.
- - A 6-pack of Coke embossed with the 100th on the bottles & the holder.

Worth mentioning:
- - Saw a W-27 rear end, didn't ask on the price, afraid too
- - Saw a W-455 alum intake, guy says it's NOS, doesn't look like it, wants
2 grand (!!!)
- - Saw several 71/72 OAI hoods, one says 3 grand, looks nice, not that
nice...
- - Saw a 70' OAI for $900. looks as good as the one above, too bad it's a
year off.

I spent most of my time with our Metro Detroit car club members (Detroit
Street Rockets), it's too bad we can't be recognized by OCA :-(. One of
our members, Denny and I were talking to a owner of his 1919 Olds
Phaeton. One of nine ever produced, the only one known to still exist. He
tells us this extended story how the car was smuggled out of Paraguay by
some pilot. As he tells his story, a older man comes up from behind
pushes his way past the owner, has his hands on the cowl locks, I hear a
metallic sound as the man lets the lock drop back onto the fender and
starts to open the right hand cowl (hood). We stand there in disbelief
and the owner is in obvious shock for several seconds. The owner finally
takes control of the situation as we view the engine. I look down on the
fender near the lock, no apparent damage... I give the owner credit for
remaining calm, I'm not sure I would have fared as well considering this
vehicle is probably near $200 to $300K.

I read that the REO Museum is hosting a "Cool Car Party" (September 14th)
and a "Last Blast of Summer" event (October 12th). FYI,

Looking forward to the next event,
Mike


Michael R. Hall                                Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1971 Oldsmobile 442, A Work In Progress...
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 14.27 @ 97.18 mph
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:13:49 -0400
From: Suzanne Parkhurst <nipper@buffnet.net>
Subject: Remove

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:12:50 -0700
From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@direct.ca>
Subject: Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?

Here's large olds thats been advertised in a Calgary paper for the last
three weeks for a huge price.

80 Olds Regency, black w/burgundy int, 4 dr, V8, loaded, sunroof, 4100 kms
since new, stored vehicle, like new, $50,000 , serious inquiries only
281-1111



- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Late bargains at the Car Corral?
> Date: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 11:29 AM
>
> On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> > There was a car that was something like a 1984 Delta 88 on a trailer.
> > Supposedly it was the last V8 or last rear-wheel drive or last
something of
> > these cars, and it only had like 4000 miles on it.
>
> You think your 4-4-2 story was bad... the car you're referring to was a
> 1979 98 Regency. It was on a trailer, and it did have something like 4K
> miles on it. We spotted it and the lady standing next to it answered our
> questions like she was equipped with a tape machine or something:  "Only
> 4,xxx miles... my son had it double undercoated... everything is like the
> day it was built..." (well, maybe, if the factory put on bent wheel
> opening moldings on the right rear...) "we're asking $24,xxx... the
> absolute minimum we'd take is $21,xxx...". She made it sound like she had
> been asked about it a thousand times already. Heck, maybe she had.
>
> I felt like telling her that to a collector, the double undercoating
would
> reduce the value of the car by about $15K... ;-)  A nice car, don't get
> me wrong, but outrageously overpriced.
>
> I was disappointed in the car corral. There were a few reasonable buys
> there but most of them were way overpriced.
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:30:09 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <3sticks@stjohns.edu>
Subject: LANSING pics UPDATE & important message !

First more pics have been added to the LANSING selection, and the file
names have been changed to reflect the image. Also a file called
VENDOR.jpg is there. This is a scan of business cards collected from
various vendors that had "stuff" the people on the list were asking me
about. The card from the clown co. is correct he was there selling
parts, (don't ask me).

On a more serious note right below, "LANSING" is selection of a picture
and details of a members car that was stolen the week before the 100th.
PLEASE check it out, you never know where the car
or......<glup>.....parts could turn up.


Thanks !

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|

        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 6/15/97)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:36:22 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: DBL scoop air cleaner

The Sugarmans wrote:

> http://www.berkshire.net/~sugarman/airclenr.jpg

Definately NOT a Toro air cleaner from 66, 67, 68. Not sure what that thing is!

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Sparky

- --
Greg Kalkhoff                                        See the Sparkmobile
Toronado FAQ Administrator                     http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/torofaqs.htm
AKA "Sparky"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 May 97 19:18:02 EST
From: 16453642@02295.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:45:32 -0500
From: Michael Brady <drolds19@starnetinc.com>
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:43:31 -0400
From: "Terry E Teague" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: Re: Remove

I thought this was a closed list now to stop this kind of SH*T.

Terry Teague

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:45:12 -0400
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88s II

Here we go. Time for the update of the 88 owners:

        -John Pajak: 65
        -Laura D. Steinke: 66 (Pook the ghost)
        -Walter ?: 66
        -Tom Adams: 66
        -Raul Martinez: 66
        -Lisa Malden: 67
        -Paul Fikaris: 69
        -Graham Stewart: 69 (2)
        -myself: 73
        -Dan Gulino: 75
        -John Shelp: 77
        -Mike Jones: 78
        -Greg Beaulieu: 78
        -David Brown: 79 (?)
        -S.Dave Ward: 78 & 85
        -Igor Todorovic: 81
        -Chris Sparks: 82
        -Steve ?: 85
        -Michael R. Hall: 91
*-Brad Nicholson: 94 LSS   ******
>88 owners are so quiet...Why is it so? Why is it that the majority of the
>posts is about 442, Cutlasses and Toronado?
>Is it because there are not so many modifications to be made on 88 engines?
>Or owners not really interested in making them?
>Different worlds? Muscle cars and pappy's cars? Maybe.
>Or they're still in better condition, don't break so often and don't need
>any repairs?? (just joking)
>
>But it doesn't matter. WE love our 88s!
>And I think Laura really has a ghost car. When I drive my car, people
>around DEFINITELY see me. Just try to back up in a parking lot and the next
>car waiting for  my empty space will show so much respect by stopping SOOOO
>FAR away!!!

I figure I've got the best of both worlds
++ 1987 442 for the weekends
++ 1994 Eighty Eight LSS for the weekly commute (& Lansing w/ the
family)
The LSS drove like a dream in all the rain w/ no-name brand tires on the
front & 70k Eagle GAs on the rear, soon to be replaced all around w/ BF
Goodrichs.  Eighty Eights have usually been the trusty family car, as
was my mother's 74 4 door hardtop was, white, blue vinyl top, blue
interior.  That thing did an honest 120 one night trying to get me home
before curfue, and did it I might add.  It was just a plain jane 350
Rocket w/ 350 Turbo setup. For those unfamiliar & went to Lansing, the
74 Delta 88 pace car convertible was what it looked like.  Passed my
driver's license test in that boat and MAN was there enough room on
those bench seats. ;-)
The LSS is like a baby Aurora and I'll keep it for at least 3 more
years. It currently has 73k (bought used w/ 60k) and knocked down
28-29mpg from Lansing to MD, non-oxygenated fuel probably helped the
performance (more on that subject later).  My LSS was the only one in
lot HH behind the Lansing Center, w/ baby seat base in the back seat.
The rest of the lot were Cutlass' with a Ninety-Eight Touring Sedan & a
1/2 ton GMC extended cab full size pickup done Oldsmobile way!

The Eighty Eights have been the bread & butter of Olds for to long and
it looks as if it will be the next great nameplate to unfortunately be
retired after 98.

Just my sentimental 2 cents
- --

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:01:03 -0500
From: "John M. Loban" <cyberpsych@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RS Cent'l ª1, -Thursday [long]

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>
> > I heard that the guy who was lucky enough to get registration number 442
> > was trying to sell his plaque in exchange for your plaque plus some
> > undetermined amount of money.  I don't know what he was asking or whether
> > he ever sold it.  I would guess he was not a 442 owner!
> >
> > Dan
> He wanted your plaque plus $100 for the 442/2500 plaque. Some people will
> do anything for a buck.
>
> Daren

I talked to the guy also- what he really wanted was to trade for a ª1957
plaque - the year of his car!        John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:03:54 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Lansing story

On the way to the plant tour a guy on the bus was telling this story and I
thought the rest of you would like to hear it.

Olds had ask the Curved Dash owners if the would give people in the local
old people homes rides in their Curved Dashes. One guy who was giving rides
hit a pot hole in the road and broke one of the front rims and did some
damage to the dash. It just so happend that a foreman from the Olds factory
was driving a Curved Dash right behind him called somebody to come pick the
car up and to take it the factory and then fixed it for him in the
fabrication shop that day free of charge! Now that's what I call extended
warranty service.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:08:39 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <3sticks@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Re: Lansing story

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>
> On the way to the plant tour a guy on the bus was telling this story and I
> thought the rest of you would like to hear it.
>
> Olds had ask the Curved Dash owners if the would give people in the local
> old people homes rides in their Curved Dashes. One guy who was giving rides
> hit a pot hole in the road and broke one of the front rims and did some
> damage to the dash. It just so happend that a foreman from the Olds factory
> was driving a Curved Dash right behind him called somebody to come pick the
> car up and to take it the factory and then fixed it for him in the
> fabrication shop that day free of charge! Now that's what I call extended
> warranty service.
>
> Daren

I captured that event with the digital camera, to see it, go to the site
below, click "LANSING" then the file casualty.jpg

- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|


        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 8/26/97)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:45:21 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing stories

> I know Mike Rothe will hate this story.  One of the 69 H/O convertibles
was
> in the show.  It had to be real.  The protecto plate said the 1st owner
was
> Hurst performance products.  I never thought I would see one.  The 68 H/O
> number 001, 4 speed car was there also, still owned by Demmer.  If I
still had
> my H/O I would have had to drive over and took a picture in front of the
> Demmer Engineering building.  What a great week!!
>
> Mike
> 66 442
> 70 442
> 70 442 W30
> 71 442 Convt

There was a one at the hotel I stayed at for the first couple days. Didn't
check it out so I won't say it was real. It had the correct looking paint
and that big hood scoop and I think it had the rear spoiler can't remember
for sure got it on tape so I'll have to take a look.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:48:48 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

I'm definitely interested.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado
'67 Delta 88 Custom
'69 Toronado (aka Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:46:08 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Good-bye LANSING

Hey, I wasn't complaining or being  a pain in the a** as noted - I just
seconded the problem loading the pictures.  Probably my computer illiteracy
rising again.  Yes I'm heartbroken I couldn't go to Lansing but I'm not
complaining.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado
'67 Delta 88 Custom
'69 Toronado (aka Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:50:42 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertible

What kind of 4BBL are we talking here?  Qudrajet - internal choke or
external choke?  I'm looking for one with an external choke.

Please e-mail me privately with info.

Thanks -

Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado
'67 Delta 88 Custom
'69 Toronado (aka Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:51:50 -0400
From: "Terry E Teague" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: non Olds but funny

>From tbkid@conninc.com Tue Aug 26 22:56:23 1997
Received: by webserv.conninc.com from localhost
    (router,SLMail V2.5); Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:56:23 -0500
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Message-ID: <01BCB272.91640B80@tbkid.conninc.com>
From: "Turner King" <tbkid@conninc.com>
To: "'dawgs@conninc.com'" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: FW: beer
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:41:27 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What do ya think?

- -----Original Message-----
From:Jessie Clark [SMTP:jclark@interbiz.net]
Sent:Tuesday, August 26, 1997 9:56 PM
To:Joan Patterson; Joyce King; Denise Laxton
Subject:Fw: beer



- ----------
> From:Jessie Clark <Jessie_Clark@siecor.com>
> To:JCLARK@INTERBIZ.NET
> Subject:beer
> Date:Friday, August 22, 1997 5:55 AM
>
>
>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Jessie Clark/SF/Siecor on 08/22/97
> 07:08 AM ---------------------------
>
>
> Angela Newkirk
> 08/21/97 04:50 PM
>
> To:John Self, Alan Ugolini, Joe Reinhardt, Tim Torchia, Jessie
>       Clark/SF/Siecor, Karen Rager/SF/Siecor
> cc:
> Subject:beer
>
> We need some someone like the Miller guy  to handle our customer
feedbacks.
>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Angela Newkirk on 08/21/97 05:01 PM
> ---------------------------
>
> > An actual letter sent to Miller Brewing Company and their response:
> >
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > Miller Brewing Company
> > Milwaukee, Wisconsin  53201
> >
> > Dear Sir or Madam,
> >
> > I have been a drinker of Miller beer's for many years (actually, ever
> > since that other company donated a big chunk of change to Handgun
> > Control
> > Inc. back in the mid 80's).
> >
> > Initially, my beer of choice was Lite, but some time in mid-1990 while
> > in
> > Honduras I switched to MGD smuggled up from Panama. Now, for nearly
> > six
> > years, I have been a faithful drinker of MGD.
> >
> > For these past years, I have come to expect certain things from
> > Genuine
> > Draft. I expect that whenever I see that gold can of MGD, I am about
> > ready to enjoy a great, smooth brew.
> >
> > But wait!  Sometime around the first of the year, my beloved MGD
> > changed
> > colors, so to speak. That familiar gold can was no longer gold!
> >
> > Knowing that I am, by nature, somewhat resistant to change, I forced
> > myself to reserve judgment on the new can design.
> >
> > Gradually, I grew to appreciate the new label.  That was until about
> > May
> > of this year.  That was when I discovered (empirically) that I really
> > didn't like the new design.  Further investigation of the cause of my
> > distress resulted in the following observations:
> >
> >       1. Your cans are made of aluminum.
> >       2. Aluminum is a great conductor of energy.
> >       3. Your beer is commonly consumed outside, and thus, the
> > container
> > may be exposed to sunlight.
> >       4. Sunlight striking the can causes radiant warming of the
> > surface
> > of the can.
> >       5. The resultant heat (energy) is transferred through the
> > aluminum,
> > by conduction, to the contents of the can (the beer).
> >       6. Warm beer sucks.
> >
> > This is a process that can be observed in just about any beer.
> >
> > However, this process is significantly accelerated in MGD because you
> > painted the damn can... black!!!
> >
> > Who was the rocket scientist that designed the new graphic for the can
> > and implemented the change right before summer?  Granted, this process
> > may not be real evident up there in Wisconsin, but down here in
> > Oklahoma
> > (OR TEXAS) where the summers are both sunny and hot, this effect is
> > quite
> > a problem. There's no telling what the folks in Texas and Arizona
> > are having to put up with.
> >
> > Knowing that you would probably not address this issue unless you had
> > firm evidence of a problem, I and several other subjects conducted
> > extensive experimentation.  The results of these experiments are
> > listed
> > below.
> >
> > The experiments were conducted over two days on the deck next to my
> > pool.
> > The study included seven different types of beer (leftovers from a
> > party
> > the previous weekend) that were initially chilled to 38 (and then left
> > exposed to sunlight for different lengths of time.  These beers were
> > sampled by the test subjects at different intervals.  The subjects,
> > all
> > normally MGD drinkers, were asked at each sampling interval their
> > impressions of the different beers.
> >
> > The length of time between the initial exposure to sunlight and the
> > point
> > where the subject determined the sample undrinkable (the Suck-point)
> > was
> > determined.  The average ambient temperature for the trials was 95
>
>
>
> > degrees F.
> >
> >         Beer Type                        Average Suck-point (minutes)
> >         -------------------------------- ----------------------------
> >         Miller Lite (white can)          6.2
> >         Bud (white can)                  5.5
> >         Bud Lite (silver can)            5.2
> >         Ice House (blue and silver can)  4.4
> >         Coors Lite (silver can)          4.1
> >         Miller Genuine Draft (black can) 2.8
> >         Coors (gold can)                 0.1
> >
> > It was evident that the color of the can directly correlates to the
> > average suckpoint, except for Coors which was pretty much determined
> > to
> > suck at any point.
> >
> > It is to be hoped that you will consider re-designing your MGD cans.
> > All
> > beer drinkers that are not smart enough to keep their beer in the
> > shade
> > will thank you.
> >
> >        Sincerely,
> >
> >        Bradley Lee
> >        Beer-drinker
> >
> >        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > The Miller response appears below.  They have had a lot of fun with
> > this
> > guys letter.
> >       Enjoy...
> >
> >        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > Dear Bradley Lee,
> >
> > Thank you for your letter and your concern about the MGD can color as
> > it
> > relates to premature warming of the contents.  Like you, we at Miller
> > Beer take beer drinking very seriously.  To that end, we have taken
> > your
> > letter and subsequent experiment under serious consideration. Outlined
> > below are our findings and solution to your problem.  May we add that
> > we
> > have had similar letters from other loyal beer drinkers, mostly from
> > the
> > Southern United States.
> >
> > First, let us congratulate you on your findings.  Our analysis tends
> > to
> > agree with yours regarding Coors.  It certainly does suck at about any
> > temperature.
> >
> > Now, it was our intentions when redesigning the MGD can to create
> > better
> > brand identity and brand loyalty.  Someone in marketing did some kind
> > of
> > research and determined we needed to redesign the can.  You will be
> > pleased to know, we have fired that idiot and he is now reeking havoc
> > at
> > a pro-gun control beer manufacturer.  The design staffer working in
> > cahoots with the marketing idiot was also down-sized.  However, once
> > we
> > realized this mistake, to undo it would have been even a bigger
> > mistake.
> >
> > So, we took some other actions.  From our market research,  we found a
> > difference between Northern beer drinker and Southern beer drinkers.
> >
> > Beer drinkers in the South tend to drink slower than beer drinkers in
> > the
> > North.  We are still researching why that is.  Anyway, at Miller Beer,
> > it
> > was never our intentions to have someone take more than 2.5 minutes to
> > enjoy one of our beers.  We pride ourselves in creating fine, smooth,
> > quick drinking beers and leave the making of sissy, slow sipping beers
> > to
> > that Sam guy in Boston.
> >
> > However, it is good to know that you feel our Miller Lite can last as
> > long as 6 minutes.  However, may we suggest in the future you try
> > consuming at least two in that time frame.
> >
> > From your letter, we had our design staff work 'round the clock to
> > come
> > up with a solution that would help not just MGD but all our fine
> > Miller
> > products.  We hope you have recently noticed our solution to your
> > problem.  We found that the hole in the top of the can was not big
> > enough
> > for quick consumption.  So, we have now introduced the new "Wide
> > Mouth"
> > cans.  We hope this will solve all your problems.  Might I also
> > suggest
> > that if you want to get the beer out of the can even faster, you can
> > poke
> > a hole on the side near the bottom, hold your finger over it, open the
> > can, tip it to your mouth and then pull your finger off the hole. This
> > is
> > a common way to drink beer at parties and impress your friends.
> >
> > This technique is known as "shot-gunning".  You should like the name.
> >
> > Again, thank you for your letter and bring to our attention that there
> > might be other beer drinkers taking more that 2.5 minutes to drink our
> > beers.  Let me assure you that I am have our advertising department
> > work
> > on campaign to solve this problem, too.
> >
> >       Sincerely,
> >
> >
> >
> >       Tom B. Miller
> >       Public Relations
> >       Miller Brewing Co.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> >
> > A few thoughts on the potential advantages of a Black Can:
> >
> > 1.      Less likely to be spotted by officers while drinking and
> > driving.
> >
> > 2.      Easier to hide that last beer in back of fridge.
> >
> > 3.      Black goes with any color can coozie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:58:38 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Greg's Diary

 Fellow List Members,

With Greg's permission, I have posted his great Lansing stories on my web
site listed below. For those of you who might have missed the "Lansing
Diaries", it's a must read.
Greg, It would really dress up the stories if you could email me some
relevant pictures for the text. Just tell me where to put them

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:02:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: AKOHLER@aol.com
Subject: Re: Build Sheets

I haven't even looked for the build sheet on my 86 cutlass, why bother now,
but I did manage to get the original INVOICE from the dealer. You might try
this, it list all the options on the car. They may not want to give you the
original because it also has the price that they paid GM for it. But they may
give you a copy without the price on it.

Alan Kohler
Rockton, IL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:57:19 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing stories

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>
> > I know Mike Rothe will hate this story.  One of the 69 H/O convertibles
> was
> > in the show.  It had to be real.
>
> There was a one at the hotel I stayed at for the first couple days. Didn't
> check it out so I won't say it was real. It had the correct looking paint
> and that big hood scoop and I think it had the rear spoiler can't remember
> for sure got it on tape so I'll have to take a look.
>
> Daren

ARRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!  Sure, rub the salt in the open, bleeding
sores....those converts are as rare as hen's teeth and fine as frog
hair.  Wish I'd have seen that bad dad.  Bill "Tamagotchie" Gouchenour
got a pic of a 69 H/O in a hotel parking lot.  Maybe it was the same
one?  I was on the phone with another H/O owner earlier this evening and
he said there were quite a few 69 H/O's there.

Yeah, Lansing sounded nice for sure, but I'll make it to another show
again.  Cripes, the last Nats show I was able to attend was the Norwalk
show in 89? I think?, and went to the Orlando meet in 90.  Had to back
out at the last minute on the Greensboro, NC show.  Man, I just gotta
get back going again.  Maybe next time I'll bring MY Hurst if I get it
done (yes, it's real).  Too darn expensive to fake one of those things.
(Come to think of it, I've never seen a fake 69 H/O.....a few H/O
lookalikes, but never passed off as a 'real' H/O)  If I can just figure
out how to get the body off of this frame safely......a lot of work to
do yet.

The stories and pics are great, like Greg "The Spaminator" Beaulieu's
day-to-day replay, and especially the one about the Curved Dash extended
Olds warranty on the factory spoked wheels.  Someone ought to get more
details on that for a newspaper article or something.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:09:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hiflyr442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Remove

remove

------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:13:08 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Delta 88

>Does anybody have a drivers door window regulator for a 65 Delta 88 2
>door? I need one!

Speaking of which, I need one for my '67 Delta 88-2 door.

Anyone got a couple of spares?


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado
'67 Delta 88 Custom
'69 Toronado (aka Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:06:32 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Good-bye LANSING

Hey Lisa, quit whining about your whining....hahahaha!  Just kidding.
Seriously, folks, Lisa didn't whine about the pics, she was just
confirming that her computer wasn't downloading the pics very fast
either, so somebody didn't think they were the Lone Ranger.  My download
times were anywhere from 10 seconds to 35 seconds, but I don't care.
The way I look at it, it took Oldsmobile a hundred years to get these
pics......

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:15:08 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Build Sheets

AKOHLER@aol.com wrote:
>
> I haven't even looked for the build sheet on my 86 cutlass, why bother now,
> but I did manage to get the original INVOICE from the dealer.

Alan,  you still can find that trim sheet no doubt.  Remember, the
"build sheet" should be inside your decklid.  Next time you are cleaning
it out, just peek under the seats.

The Dumbasaurus Rex at the dealership destroyed the original window
sticker for my 85 before I picked it up, but they did give me a smaller
black and white copy of it, that they had in their records to stop my
complaining and hollering about leaving it on there so I could take care
of it.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:25:44 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 70 442 seatbelts

I'd offer my '72 parts ones, but they are GREEN!!!  Plus one is shredded.
However, if you have no luck finding the right ones, let me know - maybe
they can be dyed.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado
'67 Delta 88 Custom
'69 Toronado (aka Toro II)
'72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:22:03 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Olds Inquiry - 1938

I got this inquiry off my web page.  Can someone assist this gentleman?

Answer to his e-mail privately @ redwings@usit.net

Could you help me find some pics & parts for a 1938 Olds 3 passenger
coupe?

Any help would be appreciated
Thank you

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:49:28 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Starfire inquiry

Received the following inquiry off my webpage - e-mail privately to:
jjmnm@cts.com

Looking for other 64 Starfire owners and old ads from dealers or
magazines. Any info on any upcoming car shows that have alot
of Oldsmobiles to compare my baby to. I am getting a photo scanned soon of
it to share on the web.

Thanks - Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:45:55 -0700
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: delta 88s II

I don't have a Delta "88" but do have a plain
old '55 "88" 2-door HT convertable. (Stock on the
outside and  a tricked-out 455 under the hood.)

Is there a list for me?
Gary Andresen - Pleasanton, CA

Bradford W. Nicholson wrote:
>
> Here we go. Time for the update of the 88 owners:
>
>         -John Pajak: 65
>         -Laura D. Steinke: 66 (Pook the ghost)
>         -Walter ?: 66
>         -Tom Adams: 66
>         -Raul Martinez: 66
>         -Lisa Malden: 67
>         -Paul Fikaris: 69
>         -Graham Stewart: 69 (2)
>         -myself: 73
>         -Dan Gulino: 75
>         -John Shelp: 77
>         -Mike Jones: 78
>         -Greg Beaulieu: 78
>         -David Brown: 79 (?)
>         -S.Dave Ward: 78 & 85
>         -Igor Todorovic: 81
>         -Chris Sparks: 82
>         -Steve ?: 85
>         -Michael R. Hall: 91
> *       -Brad Nicholson: 94 LSS   ******
> >88 owners are so quiet...Why is it so? Why is it that the majority of the
> >posts is about 442, Cutlasses and Toronado?
> >Is it because there are not so many modifications to be made on 88 engines?
> >Or owners not really interested in making them?
> >Different worlds? Muscle cars and pappy's cars? Maybe.
> >Or they're still in better condition, don't break so often and don't need
> >any repairs?? (just joking)
> >
> >But it doesn't matter. WE love our 88s!
> >And I think Laura really has a ghost car. When I drive my car, people
> >around DEFINITELY see me. Just try to back up in a parking lot and the next
> >car waiting for  my empty space will show so much respect by stopping SOOOO
> >FAR away!!!
>
> I figure I've got the best of both worlds
> ++ 1987 442 for the weekends
> ++ 1994 Eighty Eight LSS for the weekly commute (& Lansing w/ the
> family)
> The LSS drove like a dream in all the rain w/ no-name brand tires on the
> front & 70k Eagle GAs on the rear, soon to be replaced all around w/ BF
> Goodrichs.  Eighty Eights have usually been the trusty family car, as
> was my mother's 74 4 door hardtop was, white, blue vinyl top, blue
> interior.  That thing did an honest 120 one night trying to get me home
> before curfue, and did it I might add.  It was just a plain jane 350
> Rocket w/ 350 Turbo setup. For those unfamiliar & went to Lansing, the
> 74 Delta 88 pace car convertible was what it looked like.  Passed my
> driver's license test in that boat and MAN was there enough room on
> those bench seats. ;-)
> The LSS is like a baby Aurora and I'll keep it for at least 3 more
> years. It currently has 73k (bought used w/ 60k) and knocked down
> 28-29mpg from Lansing to MD, non-oxygenated fuel probably helped the
> performance (more on that subject later).  My LSS was the only one in
> lot HH behind the Lansing Center, w/ baby seat base in the back seat.
> The rest of the lot were Cutlass' with a Ninety-Eight Touring Sedan & a
> 1/2 ton GMC extended cab full size pickup done Oldsmobile way!
>
> The Eighty Eights have been the bread & butter of Olds for to long and
> it looks as if it will be the next great nameplate to unfortunately be
> retired after 98.
>
> Just my sentimental 2 cents
> --
>
>  ---
> | | | Brad Nicholson
> | | | 1987 442 W-42
> |/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
> | | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
>  ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
> e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
> Personal Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442
> Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:45:02 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: '68-'69 Olds Parts for sale

Received this notice off my bulletin board.

E-mail privately for more info @ Heinz68@worldnet.att.net


68/69 Olds Cutlass/442 parts for sale. Engine, Interior, Emblems, and body
parts for sale. Send E-mail for partial list or visit website for complete
list and pictures of parts.

Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 02:39:12 UT
From: "Fred Orcutt" <F_M_O@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: 1969 delta 88

Fredall wrote:
>----------
From: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of FREDALL@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 6:47 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: 1969 delta 88

In response to Darryl Wright's question on the value of a 1969 Delta 88
Royal.

Well I thought 4 years ago I found a jem 1969 Delta 88 Custom 4 door HT with
only 27,000 thousand miles real nice.

The car was also a 2b 455ci.

It took me a year and a half to sell it and I think I gave it away at 1,800.

>FREDALL@aol.com      1957 Super88

IMHO, a car like the 69 D88 4dr is not an investment to expect a significant
financial return.  It's an opportunity to own one heck of a significant and
powerful road master -- the kind they don't build in Lansing anymore :(.  I
bought the same model a year ago for $500, and there was no one else
interested. It had 100k on the 455/2v, and a close to mint interior.  I have
driven it every day, and all I've had to do is change the oil every 2500-3000
miles (didn't burn any between changes, either). It's a real cruiser, and
perhaps the best feeling is that I know my family is safe in it. There may be
some lightweight rice burners that are speedier in the short run, but I know
that my Delta could cruise away from any collision that would leave any one of
them a basket case. If some schmuck thinks a 1990 Honda Civic DX with 180,000
miles on it is worth $6,000, let him waste his money. I'll take a car like
yours any day.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: STemple909@aol.com
Subject: Re: Repo OAI hoods

I missed the original e-mails concerning the repo OAI hoods. Where are they
from and how much? Thanks in advance.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:54:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: STemple909@aol.com
Subject: 68 442 in Birmingham, AL - $1,800

I work at a local Auto Zone in Birmingham, AL. I have a customer with a 68
442 for sale. I saw it today. It is a silver (sorry, not H/O) 442, with a 400
cid engine (Head Code "C"), and was originally a automatic but now has a four
speed. Bucket seats, console, etc. It is kinda rough but appears to be all
there. I think that the engine has a bad main bearing but for the price I
believe that it is a good deal. He also has various parts pieces (64 rear
"Oldsmobile" script panel and etc.)  and a 64 Cutlass for sale. If anybody is
interested, let me know and I will give you the name and other info on the
owner.

Shawn L. Temple
72 Cutlass S (455/ TH-400)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:00:53 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 403 vs 350

>i own a 403 that i am willing to sell and i was thinking around $375.  it is
>a complete motor and it runs.  where are you located?  is it possible to send
>an engine through the mail?  i am currently rebuilding the 350 (not for sale)
>to replace the 403.  i think that the 350 is a faster engine compared to the
>403 and only 5 HP difference.  with some aftermarket parts i will have 5+ HP
>without the weight of the bigger motor.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>     OK, there are a few flaws in this logic.
>
>     First, both the 403 and the 350 are SMALL BLOCK Olds motors.  External
>     dimensions are identical.  Heads, manifolds, and all accessories are
>     interchangeable.  They use virtually the same block casting, resulting
>     in motor weights which are probably within a couple of pounds of each
>     other.

Actually, the larger bores of the 403 might make it lighter than the
same-year (windowed-main) 350. Iron is heavier than air...  Actually, the
403 used heavier-duty rods, and siamesed cylinders, so the casting could
conceivably be heavier, though it would make utterly no difference on the
street.

>     Second, all else being equal (and it really isn't, due to things like
>     rod length, bore to stroke ratio, breathing capability of the heads,
>     etc.), the engine with more cubic inches will have more horsepower.
>     Those same aftermarket parts you plan to install on your 350 will bolt
>     right up to the 403, producing a similar gain in performance.
>
>     Third, I'm not sure where you get the 5 HP difference.  Is this from
>     factory HP ratings?  If so, keep in mind the potential differences in
>     smog equipment, cam profile, intake and exhaust, etc.

This is a real good point, as the factory 403's used the same .400" lift cam
as the auto 350's did since their introduction, so it wasn't really
optimized for the 403 size engine; it's just what they had on the shelf. The
factory installed 403's were way undertuned.

>     Again, with
>     comparable cams (you _were_ going to install a new one during the
>     rebuild, weren't you?) and intake/exhaust manifolds (interchangeable
>     between the two motors, as noted above), the 403 should make
>     significantly more HP and torque than the 350.

It has the potential to be 50hp above that 350, if you get 1 hp/ci out of each.

>     The one fly in this ointment is the notorious "windowed" blocks used
>     on the 403.  Most (all? - sorry, I'm more familiar with big blocks)
>     350s have solid webs around the crank bearings, resulting in excellent
>     strength.  The 403, having been designed during the downsizing of the
>     1970s, has "windows" (basically, lightening holes) in these webs to
>     save weight (ironically for your argument, the 403 is probably lighter
>     than the 350 because of this).  As you might imagine, these windows
>     don't exactly enhance the strength of the block for high-horsepower
>     applications.  Of course, having said that, I would be surprised if
>     these windows caused you a problem in almost any street-driven motor
>     you might imagine.  I suspect only a really gonzo high-output motor
>     would be compromised by the windowed block.

That, of course, is one tradeoff, the other being the minimal space between
the bores, resulting in easily-blown cylinder head gaskets at high pressures
and high temperatures. I was considering running nitrous on my 403, but
after blowing a head gasket in simple day-to-day driving, I'm leaning
against that option without o-ringing the block and heads. Supercharging
would probably be out of the question.

Even though a 403 makes a great street motor, and I'm a die-hard 403 fan, an
all-out 350 would make more hp than an all-out 403, since you could run a
higher compression (or more boost) at a higher rpm in the 350 (I wouldn't
want to turn my 403 past 6000rpm; a well-built 350 could pass 7000rpm). If
you found a solid-main 403 block, and O-ringed it, though, maybe you'd have
a real killer small-block.

On the street, though, the 403 is a better choice than a 350. Then again, a
425 or 455 is a better choice still... :)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 04:41:52 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: DBL scoop air cleaner

 Mike,

This in no way resembles a Toro aircleaner.  The Toro ones have a thin
profile & the snorkels are long, thin, tapering items w/a flaring end on
them as in a trumpet.  It does have a Chevrolet look as in Corvette
possibly.  The Thermac units are not visable at all & so cannot be a '68-69
Olds unit.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>The Sugarmans wrote:
>>
>> Hi, OldsFolks
>>
>> I've been watching the thread on the double scoop air cleaners, since I
>> posted the vague description of mine.  There were a couple of references
>> to what kind of air cleaner my son's car really has.
>
>Ooh boy.  That one looks weird.  I can tell you this much, it is NOT
>from a 69-up Olds 442.  It MAY be, and I mean MAY be, something from an
>older model Toro, or Delta, or something like that.  There is no sign of
>an AC Thermac unit on the inlets, which was standard on late 60's
>styles.  It's cool looking though, whatever it is.  Any Toro heads want
>a crack at this one????
>
>Mike Rothe
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 06:30:02 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Repo OAI hoods

STemple909@aol.com wrote:
>
> I missed the original e-mails concerning the repo OAI hoods. Where are they
> from and how much? Thanks in advance.

They are available through most Olds resto places, I've seen them
advertised in Hemming's also, somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-450.
But beware, there are a couple different kinds floating around out
there.  Some are VERY lightweight, benificial (maybe) to drag racing,
and have to use the light springs, or no springs at all.  Some utilize
the inlet screen, bolt on in the stock locations, you can use regular
springs, and "look" original, even though they are all fiberglass.
However, with most kinds, they can't use the center stock hood latch and
hood release spring, since there would be too much stress in that area.
They rely on the hood pins to do the work.  I haven't heard of any that
can use the center latch.  Unless I couldn't find an original hood, or
are low on $$$$, I personally wouldn't use one, just due to the fact
they don't have the center latch/secondary catch (for safety reasons
only).  Most, if not all, require some sort of finishing/carving for
correct fitment, but all in all they do look good when done.  As for the
original hoods, with the steel underframe, they cost about twice as
much, (around 900-1000 or up to 3K if you've read the Lansing
stories!!!) but you won't have near the fitting adjustments + you get
the peace of mind that you have a center latch and safety catch.  Never
had a repro, so I cannot speak from experience, but I've seen them on
cars, and at swapmeets, and if you drive your car normally, (no high
speed affairs) then I suppose they would do just fine. I would just have
a hard time trusting my hood to two skinny little cross pins at 100+
mph.

Anyone out there ever used/had a repro OAI hood?   Let us know what you
think.

2 more cents

Mike Rothe

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª821
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