To:	oldsmobile-digest @ chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #817


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 25 1997       Volume 01 : Number 817



Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Re: Rear End Help
Lansing Diary Day 3 (long)
Re: Lansing, vendors cards
Lansing Diary Day 1
Re: 455 identification
Re: Unusual 442 for sale
(no subject)
Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>
Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)
Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertible
Re: 455 identification
Reply:455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI
Re: Lansing Video: Anyone Interested?
member related
Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>
Unusual 442 - UPDATE
Re: Lansing Video: Anyone Interested?
Lansing Video:  First Update
HEI
The Great Bash
Re: 455 identification
Re: Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner
Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)
Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)
Re: How to add Lansing pictures?
Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Re: Unusual 442 - UPDATE
Re: Lansing Diary Day 3 (long)
Lots of Olds for sale
Remove
Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>
RE: Build Sheets
Tire clearance question
Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?
Olds Engine
RE: Tire clearance question
Lansing Memories
Re: Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner
Re: Lansing Memories
Re: 1967 cutlass convertible
Re: Lansing Memories
Re: 1970 Radio wanted
Re: Unusual 442 - UPDATE
Re: Tire clearance question
Re: HEI
Lansing Diary Day 4 (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:23:45 -0500
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

I would be interested!!!

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 17:16:32 -0500 dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman) writes:
>Okay guys and ladies,
>          I may be taking on more work than I can handle, but here
>goes...
>I've been working in television for nearly 10 years, and produced my
>fair
>share of weddings, (*shudder*) high school graduation videos, and
>fraternity
>rush videos.  Here's the proposal:
>
>          I know many of our list members who attended the Centennial
>celebration in Lansing took their trusty video cameras.  If the people
>who
>shot video of all those beautiful Oldsmobiles would trust me with
>their
>tapes, I would like to produce a 10 - 20 minute video scrapbook for
>all the
>list members like myself who didn't have the opportunity to attend.
>I'll
>dub your footage and send your master tape back to you ASAP.  If this
>project gets off the ground, the final edit will be mastered to DVC
>Pro.
>(Digital Video Cassette.  The quality is unbelievable.)  I won't want
>to rip
>anybody off on the cost, but I'll need to collect enough to buy VHS
>tapes
>and pay the postage to send them out.  To avoid wasting list bandwith,
>would
>anyone with  a Lansing tape please e-mail me directly?  I can dub VHS,
>Hi-8,
>and possibly VHS-C if I can get my hands on an adaptor.  I promise to
>treat
>your tapes like they were my own.  (Still have some Maxell VHS tapes
>from
>1984 that look good.) If I can generate enough interest, I'll post
>updates
>to the list on how things are developing.  Thanks.
>
>Doug Newman     dnewman@wcbi.com
>Columbus, MS
>1987 442
>
>http://www.442.com/newman.html
>http://wcbi.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:19:50 -0500
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: Rear End Help

I haven't personally priced these rear ends, but was informed from a
co-worker of the prices. He is starting his own performance shop.
Unfortunately, he is into the Ch*vys. I have no reason tho question him
on these prices, but I also found it hard to believe. I will check
further into this and keep everyone posted.

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Cnvrtbl442@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 97-08-23 08:30:20 EDT, you write:
>
><<  He also told me that the 10 bolt posi
> rear ends go for approx $100.00 (US) vice the 12 bolts that go for
>approx
> $350.00 (US). Just my 2 cents worth. >>
>
>
> I dont think you can get  a used G body 8.5" 10 bolt for $100....let
>me
> know if ya can cuz I could sure use a few at that price.....TIM
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:37:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Lansing Diary Day 3 (long)

Thursday, August 21st

The official birthday of Oldsmobile dawns grey, cold and damp. We head
downtown to Lansing Center for the shuttle buses to the factory tour at
9:00AM. We're running a little late, but we realize from the crowds
milling around on the sidewalk that they are too. Confusion reigns and we
hear one of the staff telling a group of his cohorts that "I don't
care... once we get 'em on the buses, it's their problem", meaning
presumably the people at the factory. All of the organization for this
one seems to have gone out the window. No one is checking registration
documents or anything, you just need to get on the bus and you're in.

Our bus finally arrives about 9:40 and we pile on. We get to the Olds
plant and are placed in groups of 25, handed safety glasses, and head on
in. This is the old plant where they made the original Olds 88 and the
other rear wheel drive cars up to 84. Now it makes Pontiac Grand Ams and
Buick Skylarks, though next year, we're told, it will make the Alero and
the Skylark will be history. This place is ancient. Built in 1927, many of
the floors are cross-cut wooden blocks that must be original, and the
walls are ancient brick. The floors bounce, paint is peeling off the
girders, dust and dirt is everywhere, and many of the windows are broken.
Must be really a fun place when it's really hot or cold outside. Much of
the place appears unused... lights off, old equipment in storage, gates
locked. Kind of sad to see, and we wondered what it must have been like in
the old days when they were selling a million cars a year.

We eventually are led to where the assembly process starts on the second
floor. Our guide is a personable lady who works as a team leader on the
floor, she tells us, helping other people in her group when they need it
and responding to line stoppages when there's a problem. She's very open
and down to earth. No corporate P.R. lines from her; she's a UAW member
and she answers every question we ask honestly. She's really proud of what
they do here and she impresses us very positively.

The assembly plant gives people like me who work in an office all day a
new look at what it's like to earn a living. I wonder if the GM execs get
here very often. It's like going into the past. There are portable stereos
everywhere and the noise is more from them than from the machinery. Most
work stations have picnic tables nearby with newspapers, coffee,
cigarettes, etc. scattered about, and it's like going back in time to the
way people who work in factories have always earned their living. There is
very little 90's culture that has had an impact here.  The one exception
that surprises us a little are the number of women who work on the line,
something I hadn't really thought of before -- somehow I had always
assumed the line was a male domain. Not so. Interestingly, the place seems
to just run on it's own. I didn't see a whole lot of evidence of
supervisors or management hanging around, and people seem to do their jobs
without a whole lot of interference. It seemed to me that they liked their
jobs for the most part too from the number of smiles and waves we got as
we passed by.

I found several things amazing. First, there was virtually no control
over us once we got inside. We had no visitor badges, and we could easily
have slipped away from the group and wandered anywhere. Secondly, there
was no obvious security. Boxes of stereos and other car parts were
everywhere and it seemed it would be very easy for a few of those to have
disappeared. I suspect lots of the NOS stuff you now find in the swap
meets came from that very route 30 years ago. I resisted the temptation
to take one, settling for a vacuum hose clamp I found on the floor as a
souvenir instead. :) The most amazing thing though was just the way all
of this stuff goes together. In some ways it's amazing that cars get
built at all. Forklifts are zipping around delivering stuff to work
areas, overhead conveyors are meeting up with robotic vehicles to mate
bodies to powertrains, and yet somehow it all comes together. Of course
it's all computer-controlled these days, but in this plant it's not
obvious. The other thing that amazed me was the dynamic testing the
newly-assembled cars get on what looks like a dynamometer... the drivers
really abuse these things. I suppose that's their job, but it seemed
disconcerting to hear the cars roaring at 60 mph on rollers as smoke and
other stuff started coming off the engine and brakes on their first run.
They must know what they're doing, though I wondered how many cars get
broken at that point in the process.

We all enjoyed the tour, though we were disappointed there were no
souvenirs able to be purchased at the plant. It killed most of the
morning, so when we got dropped back at Lansing Center we went across the
street to the Nuthouse bar & grill for lunch. In addition to being
Oldsmobile's birthday, it was also Sandy's, so we bought him some lunch
and beers, and Melanie, our waitress, offered him a "birthday shot" for a
quarter. A good spot. After lunch we split up with some of us going to
look at cars and others heading back to the swap meet. Spent some more
$$$ on things, including some AC-Delco tin signs that Brian and I
bought... at 24"x36" we knew we would have some fun getting them home,
but what the heck. Mid-afternoon I headed back to the hotel on the
shuttle bus for the list get-together at 4:00PM. I felt funny lugging my
tin signs on board the bus until I saw a lady with a pair of red
fenderwells get on too!

Headed over to the Holiday Inn at 4:00 and met up with Doug Kitchener for
the get-together. We had no real plan, but people eventually started
showing up. I know I'll leave some folks out, but in addition to those I
already mentioned, we had a good turnout: Drew Senko, Peg O'Connor, Mark
Prince, Mike Hall, Jeff Easton, Chris Witt, Greg "Sparky" Kalkhoff, Tony
Moore from London, England, Mick Gillespie, Cliff MacFarlane & co., Ron
Forsee, Greg Pruett, Darren Schroger, Clayton Pierce, Everett Horton... I
know there were a bunch more too, but I wasn't keeping a list and the
whole night was a blur. I *do* know we had 16 cars, and I'd guess 30 or
more people. Hopefully we'll be able to get a complete list. I know I took
a bunch of pics (tha camera was finally behaving) and Mary Ludlam
organized a whole series of shots too.  We'll have to get them up on a web
page soon. It was a fun night despite dodging a couple of spells of rain
- -- the weather was the worst thing about the week -- and we even gave out
the first (and possibly last) Oldsmobile List Driver's Society Achievement
Awards. You had to be present to win, which meant that the team of Andy
Green and Dr. Bob Barry, which would have swept a number of categories
including the coveted "Squeegie" Award and the Most Posts On Company Time
prize, failed to place. :) As it was, we gave out awards to:

Doug Kitchener: Most Posts by a Non-Member
Peg O'Connor: The Treadlife Award for longest uninterrupted service at
the same mail address
Tom Stoner: The Junior Achievement Private Enterprise Award
Bob Handren: The Car Craft Write-In Agitation Award
Greg Kalkhoff: The Greg Beaulieu Memorial Award for List Administration
Chris Fair: The MCI Long-Distance Award (he came all the way from California)
Bryce Smith: The Copyright Infringement Award for use of "442" without
permission from Olds

We also had a Mr. Congeniality award lined up, but Chris Witt arrived
after the ceremonies had concluded, annoying the heck out of the rest of
us... ;-)

Awards were courtesy of Mr. Jeff Easton, and consisted of beautfully-made
CD-ROMs of the Olds List Archives, including the FAQ, Bryce's web page,
and some great images. Huge thanks to Jeff! We gave the last CD to Ralph
Braun of the Toro chapter who writes monthly for "Journey With Olds".
When Ralph showed up and asked what was going on we gave him the hard
sell on this and the Toro list, and he promised to look at the CD and
give us some press in a future "Frontwheeling" column. Great stuff!

There was an empty parking lot across the street, so Mary Ludlam
organized a move of all of us over there for some group shots. I got a
lift from Jeff Easton in his 4-4-2 and it was a gas! Somebody brought
some beer and we all hung around over there for a bit while the pics were
being taken. It was like our own little car show. People driving by saw
the cars and started pulling in to take a look. Bob Handren even did a
burnout in the lot! A great time, and I'm sorry I had to leave around
7:30. I guess the gang hung there for a while after that. Thanks to
everyone who showed, it was superb!

I was supposed to meet the guys and get a lift for the benefit auction,
but some wires got crossed and I ended up not meeting up with them. By
the time I realized that, it was too late so I missed it. Turns out the
prices were a little steep anyway, but the guys got autographs from Doc
Watson of Hurst/Olds fame and then some of them headed out to the
Michigan Festival to catch Steve Miller. Brian and I eventually hooked up
for a late dinner and while in the restaurant I met Dan Williams of the
list too -- spotted him by his Bryceman shirt. The boys were starting to
get impressed by the number of people I knew at this shindig... :)


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:33:36 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <billg@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Re: Lansing, vendors cards

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
>
>  Speaking of someone's vendor card, would it be possible to get some
> postings of vendors from those who were in Lansing.  this could be a
> wonderful resource for all of us in our eternal search for that part or
> service.  It could also add to Bryceman's listings.
>
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
>
> >Yesterday I went to lansing to soak up the fun.  I've never seen that
> >many old cars in one place before(most of my old car viewing is done at
> >cruise nights), let alone Oldsmobiles.  The swap meet was great even
> >though I only spent $2.00 on a '65 paint chip booklet.  I did get a card
> >from a local guy who makes headliners from the orig. patterns, not the
> >one you take out.
>
> >Rick Anderson
> >Clarkston, MI
> >'65 Jetstar I
> >

I've collected about 9 business cards from various vendors that had NICE
stuff you guys could probably use. As soon as my eyes are open past the
half-way point, I'll scan them as one image and post it to the LANSING
selection on the site below.
- --

Bill !

                                              _           _       ___
1986 442 "The Perfect 10"                   /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34        |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                             |_|         |_|   |_______|

        http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 6/15/97)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:48:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Lansing Diary Day 1

Tuesday, August 19th

Up at 6:00AM, uns*b myself from list, grab cab for Steve Penny's place
(70 SX), then off to Brian Smith's (71 SX) house. His dad is there to
drive all of us to airport, and by 9:00AM we're in the air thanks to
Northwest. The boys are excited as kids on Christmas Eve and spirits are
soaring -- lots of jokes, zingers, and good humor. Arrive at Metro in
Detroit on time, clear customs OK, get the world's only known Elvis
impersonator for a shuttle bus driver -- he gets a round of applause from
the riders after the 5-minute jaunt to the main terminal -- and are back
on Northwest for the short hop to Lansing. Arrive shortly after 1:00PM to
a beautiful day. See the new Intrigue in the airport lobby; Steve looks
underneath, something he will do to every car he sees this week. One of
many personality quirks he has, we discover; file away for future
reference and ribbing later in the week. As we are awaiting bags at the
carousel, Don Hirtle ('70 Cutlass convertible) arrives from Windsor, Ont.
in his rental car, a Mercury Sable. Couldn't get an Olds, he wails. Ah
well, perfect timing at least, and the trip is off to a great start. See
Demmer Engineering's building right outside the airport, realize that's
the home of the 68 Hurst/Olds. We're in the heart of Olds country.

Check into Hampton Inn, then off to check out the town. Tour past Olds
HQ, then into downtown. Run only one red light, manage to avoid going
wrong way on one-way streets which seemingly are all throughout downtown.
Ogle early-arriving cars -- see 2 70 W-30 convertibles within the first
20 minutes -- and find the swap meet field. Still being set up, will go
back later. Have a late lunch at T.G.I. Fridays (liked it), meet Steve
Hemminghaus (he of the $43K 72 W-30 convert talked about in the past) and
a guy named Jim Carson, who among other things owns the 68 H/O that's on
display in the R. E. Olds Museum. Nice guys though they seem more
interested in the money aspect of their cars than anything else. Oh well.
Heidi, our waitress, presents us with Olds Centennial buttons after we
admire hers, a nice touch. Head back downtown, glad we have a rental car
- -- distances from West Lansing are huge! Wander into swap meet, already
all kinds of good stuff on offer. Buy some OCA merchandise, chat with
Penny Casteele. She tells me OCA is going to consider their own web site
this week. Score first coup of week: pick up mint used black rubber trunk
mat from Ashley Jones (who used to be a list member) for $40; other guys
also in market for same, highly annoyed with me for beating them to it,
will now have to pay $90 for new ones. ;-)  Pick up some other things
too, already in need of visit to bank machine. Meet and chat with Mark
Cornea (a.k.a. Dr. Decal) of the list, he's having a problem with his car
but still manages to be really friendly and we have a nice chat. Brian
and I buy W-machine clocks from him while we're there, really neat. Head
back to hotel at dusk with pit stop on route for refreshments, relax in
Brian and Don's room rest of night, take abuse for being such a canny
shopper. Good start.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:47:12 -0600
From: "Travis Adams" <cashmore@imt.net>
Subject: Re: 455 identification

Chris,
Not positive but I would say it is a 455.  Just on recollection of what I
have seen on the list and the Olds FAQ.  Check out Bryceman's page for more
info.  www.442.com will get you there.

Travis Adams
65 442 post

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:35:09 -0300
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual 442 for sale

>      The other question I have concerns the initial build date for 1969
>      W-32 cars.  I was always under the impression that the W-32 was
>      released later in the model year, which would not be consistent with
>      an Oct 1968 build date.  Does anyone have any information on this?
>      Any suggestions for substantiating the PR6904 nomenclature?
>
Public Relations?  Test mule?  The two never seemed to meet in GM's R&D
programs.  If indeed it IS an original 455 "Cameo White (50), black
bucket vinyl interior (930)" 442, then it WOULD be something to get, by
FAR!!!!  But, some of the things make sense.  Was this "PR car" one of
those factory ringers that some companies sent out to car mags to
thrash?  Is that why it wasn't licensed until late 69?  Maybe it was a
test mule for the H/O development, since these weren't built until late
March?  The 68/69 H/O actually proved the F-85 body style was up to par
for the 455.   All these answers, we dunno.  W-32 is written all over
this one though if I were a betting man.  If I recall correctly, the
optional W-32 package was included in the sales literature in late 68.
Not that many made though, I believe to be a little over 1000.  Here's
the cool part though.  If the original distributor is there, find out
what number it is.  1111973 or 1111989 were W-32 distributors, since the
W-32 was the only engine to share the same dist. ª with the H/O.  (I've
done extensive research on this).  If indeed it was a 400, then it still
wouldn't be too bad.

Mystery cars are cool.
Good luck with this, let us know the outcome.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:50:55 -0400
From: Aaron Case <adcase@southern.edu>
Subject: (no subject)

I would like to know more about my 1980 olds 442 W-30.  The vin ª is
3K47RAM531538  I would also like to find some info about my 455
engine...the ª's off the engine are as follows.  off the oil filler neck
1173784 and off the block right above the water pump 396021F.  I am an
avid olds fan especially the 442's...I would like to find out if it is
an original and where the motor came out of...I was told it came out of
a 1975 toronado, but I don't know any way of finding out...My car is
black and gold with T-tops and I have not seen any others exactly like
it...the closest that I came is a 1979 Hurst/Olds...I would also like to
find out how many they made of my car...Thank you very much and if you
have any questions or need any more information please either email me
at <btrombly@southern.edu> or call me at (423) 238-3231... thanks
much!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:51:49 -0600
From: "Travis Adams" <cashmore@imt.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

Same here.
Travis Adams
65 442 post

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:00:36 -0400
From: dgerow@stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

I'd be ALL ABOUT a video if at all possible...so count me in too.  I
have a Video Capture Board if I can be of any assistance in posting some
short clips on a web site...let me know if there is anything I can do,
along with the progress of the video.  Thank you!

- --
Daniel R. Gerow
WSHL-FM 91.3
General Manager
Stonehill College Radio
- -----------------------
http://www.stonehill.edu
http://www.stonehill.edu/wshl
http://www2.stonehill.edu/~dgerow
- ---------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:58:00 -0700
From: Bill Gochenour <billg@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>

Gary Andresen wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Thanks for all your efforts with the pictures.  Sorry if someone thought
> I
> was complaining, but that wasn't the intention, it was just an innocent
> suggestion.
>
> Didn't realize you were doing this remotely as recently joined the list
> and
> saw people indicating they couldn't get into the server or downloads
> were
> extremely slow.  Seemed to me at the time that labeling would have
> reduced
> the load, that's all.
>
> My impression is that you didn't take it as a personal affront, but it
> apparently made the hair stand up on the back of a few of the members
> out
> there, so I apologize to them, but it did allow them to be self
> righteous
> and come to your defense, so if it made them feel better for a short
> while
> then maybe it was actually a good thing.
>
> Thanks again Bill and hope you have a safe trip home.
>
> Gary Andresen - '55 Olds "88"
>
> Bill Gochenour wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to have to say this, but we're leaving LANSING at 4:30 on Sunday.
> > So this will be the last message until we're back at home. Charlie B. is
> > 100% correct, posting those images at 2am turned out to be a real job.
> > Most were taken with the digital camera, which meant downloading,
> > enhancing, compressing, naming, saving, uploading, then giving access
> > rights to the files. When you get the "FORBIDEN" message, it means I
> > left out the last step. As you can see I did start to define the file
> > names, unfortunately after I had already saved them. Which meant I
> > needed to view each one a second time in order for me to find out what
> > each one was, and at 2am that would have done more harm than good! I'll
> > need a day or two to get on top of all the pictures (uploaded and still
> > in the camera). Got alot of parade pics today, and several 1988 areo
> > Hurst/Olds.
> >
> > LANSING was an experience that I was glad to be a part of and will
> > remember forever. I made alot of new friends. Learned alot about
> > Oldsmobiles. And had fun in the process! Most of all, being able to
> > share it in this small way with all the people that couldn't make it in
> > person.
> >
> > Well, that's all folks !
> >
> > I'll let the list know when the pics are ready.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Bill !



No insut taken, your sugestion was totally correct, but what a pain in
the ass that would have been to do in the wee hours of the morning. I'm
home safe an sound, adding pics as we speak, (with file names). Flight
was GREAT took only one hour and nine mins.


Ckeck out the new pics !



Bill......

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)

In a message dated 97-08-24 09:50:31 EDT, you write:

<< Tim,

 Do you mean the response(s) is listed ahead of your question? (as far as
 the order)

 F.Y.I - Not sure what browser your using, but MS Explorer has the option
 to "click" on the "subject header bar". (part of the software, above all
 e-mail subject descriptions)

 Clicking on this "subject bar" will sort and group all e-mail by
 subject.  Other browsers should have this option also.

 Hope you figure out what I mean, this was a hard one to explain.  :)

 RC Hellebuyck
  >>
No actually what I mean is I will send something as mail to the list,
and later when I checking my mail I will read a response to it before
I actually read what I sent. The response having been delivered to me
before my mail that I sent.  I have also seen this with others, someone
writes in with a question but the mail I get first is a response to that
letter and later down thepostings I see the original letter that someone
already responded to.  I am on AOL and use their standard mail,
whatever it is. Apparently there are people that get mail quicker than I
do and apparently depending on where its sent from makes a diff-
erence as to how long it takes to arrive.  Anyone else have this??? TIM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:23:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parting out 1968 Cutlass Convertible

70 442 intakes are 455 cubic inches, you say the cutlass has a 350, is it an
aluminum intake or cast iron and does it have choke tubes or the divorce
choke.

A divorce choke is a recess in the intake on the passenger side of the intake
and choke tubes is just a small opening that goes deep into the intake.  Or
maybe the engine in the 69 is of 455 caliber.  Does the heads have a letter
or number code on the bottom front of the head on the drivers side?

please let me know, I am interested in what it may be and BTW I live in
Detroit, only a hop,skip and jump from Chi town.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:28:02 -0400
From: Brian Kennedy <kennedyb@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: 455 identification

you definitly have a 455 with "c" heads (same internally as an A and B)
good up to .750" lift and has no hardened exhaust seats.  the block is
1972? 455  good casting ª.....396021F....check out 442.com....if you
can't find it there...it doesn't exist!  happy hunting.
Brian Kennedy
85 Cutlass/455

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:31:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Reply:455 timing:MSD-6AL & HEI

In a message dated 97-08-20 01:00:27 EDT, you write:

<< I am runnig a MSD-6AL in my 85 Cutlass outfitted with a 455 that has all
 the "bells and whistles" from Mondello and Summit.  The CR is about
 9.7:1 & I have Accel U-groove plugs gapped at .055.  My Ignition coil is
 a Accel super coil.  I have mech advance and vacuum advance.  My
 question:
 What is a good idle timing degree mark?
 What should it be at 1000 RPM?
 What should the total timing figure be?
 Anyone who is running the MSD-6A/6AL and has a similar configuration or
 experience on this type of setup..please lend a hand.
 Thanks in advance,
 Brian Kennedy
 Yuma, AZ
  >>
I may be late, but I can help, The first question is do you have a recurve
kit in your disributor.  If you are running points or HEI distributors, buy
the Morosso curve kit and replace the weights and springs.  A good starting
point is to use one light spring and one medium spring.  You want total
timing of 36 degrees at 1500 to 1800 rpms.
Initial timing will probably be at 15 to 18 degrees.  I am running the MSD 6A
myself but with the MSD pro-billet distributor.  I use NGK 5670-6 spark plugs
gapped at
.040.  I use full mechinical advance and no vaccum advance.  I also put a
stopper in the distributor in order to not let the timing go beyond 36
degrees total.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 that runs 12.47's @ 108.23 mph in the quarter

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:35:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lansing Video: Anyone Interested?

In a message dated 97-08-24 18:42:22 EDT, you write:

<< I would like to produce a 10 - 20 minute video scrapbook for all the
 > list members like myself who didn't have the opportunity to attend.  I'll
 > dub your footage and send your master tape back to you ASAP.

 I love the idea.  I'd be very interested in getting a copy of the
 finished item.  Perhaps some could shoot their stills onto video, and
 include those as well?  As far as I'm concerned, the longer the better,
 though :)
  >>

I know what ya mean Charlie, don't think 20 minutes would come near to
doing the 100th justice...Hey maybe a miniseries, or a Olds Video of the
Month Club....ok maybe some where in between....I know how about a
" three hour tour, a three hour tour....." :-) ...i'll stop now....TIM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:40:17 -0400
From: "Terry E Teague" <dawgs@conninc.com>
Subject: member related

Hello all I was just wondering if any of the members were on ICQ? If so
add me to your list and maybe we could all get together on ICQ. My
numbers is 1576532.

Terry Teague
68 Delta Custom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:55:31 -0700
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>

Bill Gochenour wrote:
>
> Gary Andresen wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Thanks for all your efforts with the pictures.  Sorry if someone thought
> > I
> > was complaining, but that wasn't the intention, it was just an innocent
> > suggestion.
> >
> > Didn't realize you were doing this remotely as recently joined the list
> > and
> > saw people indicating they couldn't get into the server or downloads
> > were
> > extremely slow.  Seemed to me at the time that labeling would have
> > reduced
> > the load, that's all.
> >
> > My impression is that you didn't take it as a personal affront, but it
> > apparently made the hair stand up on the back of a few of the members
> > out
> > there, so I apologize to them, but it did allow them to be self
> > righteous
> > and come to your defense, so if it made them feel better for a short
> > while
> > then maybe it was actually a good thing.
> >
> > Thanks again Bill and hope you have a safe trip home.
> >
> > Gary Andresen - '55 Olds "88"
> >
> > Bill Gochenour wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry to have to say this, but we're leaving LANSING at 4:30 on Sunday.
> > > So this will be the last message until we're back at home. Charlie B. is
> > > 100% correct, posting those images at 2am turned out to be a real job.
> > > Most were taken with the digital camera, which meant downloading,
> > > enhancing, compressing, naming, saving, uploading, then giving access
> > > rights to the files. When you get the "FORBIDEN" message, it means I
> > > left out the last step. As you can see I did start to define the file
> > > names, unfortunately after I had already saved them. Which meant I
> > > needed to view each one a second time in order for me to find out what
> > > each one was, and at 2am that would have done more harm than good! I'll
> > > need a day or two to get on top of all the pictures (uploaded and still
> > > in the camera). Got alot of parade pics today, and several 1988 areo
> > > Hurst/Olds.
> > >
> > > LANSING was an experience that I was glad to be a part of and will
> > > remember forever. I made alot of new friends. Learned alot about
> > > Oldsmobiles. And had fun in the process! Most of all, being able to
> > > share it in this small way with all the people that couldn't make it in
> > > person.
> > >
> > > Well, that's all folks !
> > >
> > > I'll let the list know when the pics are ready.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Bill !
>
> No insut taken, your sugestion was totally correct, but what a pain in
> the ass that would have been to do in the wee hours of the morning. I'm
> home safe an sound, adding pics as we speak, (with file names). Flight
> was GREAT took only one hour and nine mins.
>
> Ckeck out the new pics !
>
> Bill......

Bill,

Wish I could have made it to Lansing, but like others work demands made
it
impossible.  Had planned on doing a couple of legs of the caravan from
San
Francisco though, but the body and paint guy working on my '55 is way
behind
schedule.

Glad you and all the other "Olds" lovers had a great time. Look forward
to
viewing you pics.

Gary Andresen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 01:00:04 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Unusual 442 - UPDATE

     You didn't expect it to be easy, did you?

     The "original" engine is definitely an "F" block 455, however the
     engine number does not match the VIN :-(

     VIN 344879M147941

     Engine no 30X136372

     Obviously, this is not the original engine, however the seller swears
     that this 455 was installed by the factory.  He claims that
     documentation of this installation existed, but (naturally) has been
     misplaced over time.

     My money is still on the W-32 explanation.  I hypothesize the car was
     used for the duration of the 1969 model year as a dealer (or factory)
     demo and eventually puked its shortblock.  I'm further guessing that
     the dead 400 was replaced by a 455, following which the car sold (in
     Aug 1969 according to the California title - pink slip to Beach Boys
     fans).  There is still a spark of hope, however, that wants to
     believe the factory prototype story.

     The seller says he has talked to the second owner, who has in turn
     talked to the first owner, about this "press car" story.  The seller
     is apparently the third owner, as the second traded the car in to a
     dealer, who sold it to the current owner/seller.

     Obviously I'm still puzzled by the "PR6904" designation etched into
     the rear window, so again I'll ask for any information on Olds Public
     Relations cars and their designation.  I'm also interested to find out
     if there is any way to trace the short block back to its original
     source.  Obviously the "136372" in the engine number should match the
     last six digits of the VIN of the car it came out of, but what does
     the "30X" refer to?  Is this, in fact, a 1969 engine block, or
     something later?  And again, does anyone know of the approximate build
     date of the first 1969 W-32?  Was it early in the model year or late?
     Who on the list has an early build date W-32?

     (For those who came in late - particularly if you have a lame excuse
     like you were driving home from Lansing or something ;-) - please
     refer to my original post for the full story on this car.)

     Any help would be greatly appreciated.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:11:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lansing Video: Anyone Interested?

In a message dated 97-08-25 00:40:08 EDT, you write:

<< >          I know many of our list members who attended the Centennial
 >celebration in Lansing took their trusty video cameras.  If the people who
 >shot video of all those beautiful Oldsmobiles would trust me with their
 >tapes, I would like to produce a 10 - 20 minute video scrapbook for all the
 >list members like myself who didn't have the opportunity to attend.  I'll
 >dub your footage and send your master tape back to you ASAP

 >Doug Newman     dnewman@wcbi.com
 >Columbus, MS
 >1987 442
  >>

Hey Doug I think there is probably a ton of interest out there in regards
to this. I personally can envision the need for a series of tapes. One of
just the parade, err perhaps 2 of the parade, pre-48 or so and post 48
would probably be needed, would most likely be at least 90 minutes
each to cover the cars. And then I can only imagine the number of
events that took place during the week. The shows, displays, Museum,
tours, partys, interviews, etc, etc. Only to make myself shift into a
state of remorse by saying this, I say "this has to have been one of the
most fulfilling and historic events in the history of american automobiling
let alone the history of Oldsmobile." ........TIM


and damn I had to miss it........<--(remorse setting in)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:25:04 -0500
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Lansing Video:  First Update

Hi folks,
             As of 12:20 am CDT Monday morning, I've received nine positive
replies to the video idea, plus one generous offer to supply a tape.  The
more tapes I get, the better.  This thing will more than likely run AT LEAST
an hour, that 10-20 minute business wasn't too bright of me.  Anyone willing
to let me dub their tape shot at Lansing can e-mail me direct for the
snail-mail address.  Oh, and TIM, (Cnvrtbl442@aol.com) you've been watching
too many Gilligan's Island reruns! :-)
Thanks to everyone for all their early support.

Doug Newman     dnewman@wcbi.com
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html
http://wcbi.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:46:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Klinsmann7@aol.com
Subject: HEI

What would be the good in having HEI on a 70 442 with w-30?

Thanx,  Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:13:38 -0400
From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg)
Subject: The Great Bash

Folks,

For those of you who didn't get to go to Lansing, I can't begin to explain
and describe the incredible time you missed!!!  Not only were there more
Olds' to look at and check out than you could shake a stick at, but
Oldsmobile corporate did a fantastic job at coordinating everything and
involving the car owners in every aspect of the week.  What a blast!!!

To those of you we got to meet this week, it was really great putting the
faces (and cars!) to the names...hope you all made it back ok, and look
forward to seeing you again in Springfield!

Gregg Ludlam - '67 Toronado Deluxe, '72 Cutlass S
See me and the Toro at http://www.442.com/ludlam.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:58:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Markintime@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 identification

Hi Chris,
The 396021F cast into the front of the block behind the timing cover
definitely
id's the block as a 455 and the "C" heads are arguably the best stock heads
available for the 455.  One thing about the head though, if you intend to use
then,
and you definitely should, make sure you have the heads machined for hardened
valve seats, these heads don't like unleaded gas.

Mark Berube
67' 442
Loganville, GA.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:09:30 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:

> My pipe ataches to the passenger's side of the engine on the '68 442
> that is in the garage.

If I remember correctly the air cleaner I currently have points out
towards the passenger side with the hot air pipe on that side.  The
little breather pipe is on the driver's side.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:18:43 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)

Mike Rothe wrote:

> Hmmmmmm good question.  But if you are getting a response to a question
> you don't remember asking, then it can get kinda spooky!
>
> Any computer wizards out there care to tackle this one?

Twilight zone.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:24:53 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Mail Delivery (Olds List computer question)

Maybe the responses are coming from a user in a different time zone.
The
e-mail's time is based on local time I thought.

My 2 cents...

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:26:45 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: How to add Lansing pictures?

RC,

> I have a scanner and would like to share a couple of Lansing pictures
> with the list.  How do you guys want me to do this?  Is there
> somebody's web site that's being used?

I have a web site that can be used.  I haven't used it so far and would
be happy to post up to 5 MB worth.  Let me know.

> *ALSO*  Where do I go to see the posted Lansing pictures i've heard
> about?

http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:37:42 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

Doug,

>           I know many of our list members who attended the Centennial
> celebration in Lansing took their trusty video cameras.  If the people who
> shot video of all those beautiful Oldsmobiles would trust me with their
> tapes, I would like to produce a 10 - 20 minute video scrapbook for all the
> list members like myself who didn't have the opportunity to attend.  I'll

This would be wonderful.  But don't limit yourself to 10-20 minutes. :-)
Seriously anything would be great since I didn't get a chance to go and
would
really like to see the festivities.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:42:24 -0400
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: Unusual 442 - UPDATE

Take Bill's advice..."think of it as a fake".

Talk the guy down & buy it Joe! :)  Go with your "gut" feelings.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:13:28 -0700
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing Diary Day 3 (long)

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> There was an empty parking lot across the street, so Mary Ludlam
> organized a move of all of us over there for some group shots. I got a

Please have someone scan and post the group shots so that we all can see
what other members look like.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:40:55 -0400
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: Lots of Olds for sale

Classified2000 has the following Olds for sale:

(Mike do your thing for the Toro list)

1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, 157K miles, $5,000, Spokane, Washington
Day: (509) 465-1544  Eve: (509) 466-4050  Mail: thegriff@eznet.com
1970 Oldsmobile Toronado, 60K miles, $7,500, Lowell, Massachusetts
Day: (508) 397-5738  Eve: (508) 397-5738  Mail: lisakane@rocketmail.com
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass, 91K miles, $4,200, Beaverton, Oregon
Day: (503) 649-5328  Eve: (503) 649-5328  Mail: brnelson@fab4.intel.com
To view the complete ads, go to:
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?135890+22-AUG-97

Bobby

70 442 Escape Back to the....Past
Augusta, GA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:24:57 -0500
From: John Schmich <schmich@azstarnet.com>
Subject: Remove

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: WKBZZZZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Good-bye LANSING !, last update !......<sniffle>

Thanks Bill, great job. I really enjoyed the shots.









                                                               Keith Brumbley
                                                               71 442 conv.
                                                                Newark, DE




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:49:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: NotDads442@aol.com
Subject: RE: Build Sheets

Andrew Green wrote:

<The process is a lot more automated
now than it used to be, but there's still paperwork printed up for
each car. One of the last steps on the assembly line will be for a
worker or line inspector to grab the build sheet from wherever it
was hanging (fender cover, hood latch, etc.) and stash it in the
car in some accessible but hidden spot. Popular places include
under the back seat or under the carpet. I found a Pontiac Sunbird
build sheet in the driver's door. They could be anywhere.
>

OK this brings up yet another question that I have regarding late model build
sheets...

What the heck do they look like?????  Two weeks ago when I had the doors torn
apart on my car, I found a piece of paper that was glued(?) to the inside of
the door panel.  It was approx 4"x6" with the words "High Output Quad442
package" on it.  I assumed that this was related to the door panel only.  The
paper had tractor feed sides(holes in it for a printer) and was perferated so
you could tear it off.

Please tell me that wasn't the build sheet and I don't need to tear my door
apart again to get it!!!!

Cecil Smalley
1991 W-41
Actually an OCA member now...OCAª29604

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:13:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Don Foster <dfoster@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Tire clearance question

 Hi Oldsmobilers,
    I was wondering if 235/70-15 tires are too big on the front of a 71 
Cutlass?
I personally like to run the same size tires all the way around.
Any bad or good experiences with big tires out there?

                                    Thanks, Don

1971 Cutlass "S"
1984 LeSabre (Olds powered)


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:18:45 +0000
From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Subject: Re: Lansing Video:  Anyone Interested?

i would definately be intersested in something like that

Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:21:51 +0000
From: "Rick" <richardc@equitrac.com>
Subject: Olds Engine

This is a great deal so I figured I would share it. There is a
Oldsmobile 394 engine for sale on my area for 100 dollars. The ad
says that it has been stored in a heated garage for the past 25
years. If anyone is interested let me know and I will supply a phone
number etc etc.

Rick 64 442
Boston

Rick Copithorne <richardc@equitrac.com>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:29:10 -0400
From: "VanSant, David CWO" <DVanSant@lantd5.uscg.mil>
Subject: RE: Tire clearance question

I am currently running them on my '71 convertible

Dave
'71 Topless Cutlass
dvansant@lantd5.uscg.mil

>----------
>From: Don Foster[SMTP:dfoster@uky.campus.mci.net]
>Sent: Monday, 1997 August, 25 09:13 14:21
>To: Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Tire clearance question
>
> Hi Oldsmobilers,
>    I was wondering if 235/70-15 tires are too big on the front of a 71
>Cutlass?
>I personally like to run the same size tires all the way around.
>Any bad or good experiences with big tires out there?
>
>                                    Thanks, Don
>
>1971 Cutlass "S"
>1984 LeSabre (Olds powered)
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:37:35 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Lansing Memories

It's Monday and I am back at work:-(  I hope all of you who went to
Lansing had a good as time as I did.  It was nice to meet some of our
fellow list members.  The weather left something to be desired, but it
was never too hot.  It was very special to see the people of Lansing
turn out to view the Friday morning motorcade around the city.  They DO
take pride in the cars they build.  My rusty trusty 4-4-2 made the trip
without any problems other than the expected oil and gas use.  I have
located one of the oil leaks thanks to extended driving:-).  Next year I
hope even more list members can make it to the Olds Nats.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:41:53 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner

mrada wrote:
>
> Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
>
> > My pipe ataches to the passenger's side of the engine on the '68 442
> > that is in the garage.
>
> If I remember correctly the air cleaner I currently have points out
> towards the passenger side with the hot air pipe on that side.  The
> little breather pipe is on the driver's side.
>
Chris,
Then your "hot air" pipe is on the passenger side.  This is the pipe
that goes from the exhaust manifold shroud to the breather snorkel.  The
"breather pipe" you described is the small 1" pipe going from the air
cleaner side to the valve cover, which would make your car a
"looks-stock" candidate for such a dual snorkel air cleaner.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:55:11 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Lansing Memories

david wyatt wrote:
>
> It's Monday and I am back at work:-(  I hope all of you who went to
> Lansing had a good as time as I did.  It was nice to meet some of our
> fellow list members.  The weather left something to be desired, but it
> was never too hot.  It was very special to see the people of Lansing
> turn out to view the Friday morning motorcade around the city.  They DO
> take pride in the cars they build.  My rusty trusty 4-4-2 made the trip
> without any problems other than the expected oil and gas use.  I have
> located one of the oil leaks thanks to extended driving:-).  Next year I
> hope even more list members can make it to the Olds Nats.
>
> Dave Wyatt
> 70  4-4-2
Dave,

Where are the Olds Nationals being held next year?  Has it already been
announced?  Would have liked to been at Lansing this year but couldn't
make it.  Except for family problems, money, time, and none of my 4
Cutlass project even started yet there was no real reason I couldn't
go.  Looking forward to seeing all the pictures the list members took
though.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1967 cutlass convertible

Brent -

My information has 1967 convertible production at 567 for the Cutlass six
cylinder and 3777 for the eight.  The Supreme had 10897 convertibles, by far
the lion's share for that year.

Tom Simmons
71 Supreme SX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:05:39 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <sparks@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Lansing Memories

david wyatt wrote:

> Next year I hope even more list members can make it to the Olds Nats.

When and where are these held typically?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:19:46 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 1970 Radio wanted

Douglas J Harkema wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I really need a radio for my 1970 cutlass convt. Anyone who has one can email
> me privately with a price.
>
> Thanks
> Doug Harkema
>
> harkema2@pilot.msu.edu
Doug,

I may have a regular AM 70 Cutlass radio.  E-mail me if you want.  I
would assume it works, but haven't checked it for several years.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:11:06 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual 442 - UPDATE

>      if there is any way to trace the short block back to its original
>      source.  Obviously the "136372" in the engine number should match the
>      last six digits of the VIN of the car it came out of, but what does
>      the "30X" refer to?  Is this, in fact, a 1969 engine block, or
>      something later?

Joe,

 The engine is definitely Olds,(3) and a 1970 (0), and the car it was in
was built in Kansas City, Kans (X).  The 136372 signifies it is an early
70's model engine (low VIN), so my guess is the engine may have been
replaced after 1970 or so.  The reason I say that is that the car the
455 came out of was new in 1970,  so I doubt the engine would be up for
grabs in late 69, but who knows?  Maybe they DID have a 455 in it, and
the guy isn't stretching the truth, and they DID blow that one up.
Unless you can get the documentation, or find the original block, I'd
say this thing is a 69 W-32 with a 455 someone dropped in it to replace
the 400, and maybe even  reused the heads/intake, etc.  Is the casting ª
on the intake end with 662?  That is the W-30/32's intake cast ª for a
400.  It sounds too fishy.  The numbers engraved on the car glass?  I
talked to my dad on this, since he retired from GM, (Corvette) and knows
their ways.  PR6904 may be a "Performance Research" number assigned, but
he wasn't sure.  He's never heard of GM etching the glass to identify a
car, but he said back then, nothing surprised him on the things they
did.  He said all the "testng mules" he's seen were usually "hand
assembled" with no special documentation for the car (such as a 74 N*va
454), but very unlikely that they ever made it to the public since they
"muled" the car to death then crushed it (ouch) after they were done
playing with it. (Tax write off) Not saying that it isn't possible.....

Take the 83 C*vette for example, only one is left.  The others were
crushed. I personally saw 3 of them at the KY plant on a visit there
once, even sat in the second one built.

Hope this sheds a little more light on the mystery car.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:15:20 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Tire clearance question

Don Foster wrote:
>
>  Hi Oldsmobilers,
>     I was wondering if 235/70-15 tires are too big on the front of a 71
Cutlass? > I personally like to run the same size tires all the way around. >
Any bad or good experiences with big tires out there? > 71 wheel openings are
deep as the grand canyon.  As long as you are playing with zero offset wheels,
235/70-15's will fit like a glove. They look at home too.  Yes, been there,
done that, lived to tell about it.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:22:07 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: HEI

Klinsmann7@aol.com wrote:
>
> What would be the good in having HEI on a 70 442 with w-30?
>
Let's reverse that thought.  A much shorter list could be made on asking
what would be BAD about an HEI on a 70 W-30? Serioulsy, an HEI makes a
heck of a street improvement over points.  New points start to wear out
as soon as you start the car.  HEI, no points, no problem.  If you have
it curved right, it will make vast spark improvement and worry free
longevity possible that you couldn't get with points.  No adjustments to
get out of kilter, no parts (other than cap/rotor) to replace, and as
someone said here on the list, it will fit a big Olds engine without
bashing in your OAI air cleaner base for clearance.  Do you want us to
go on?  If you can run an HEI, and you aren't a stickler for
originality, then by all means run it over stock.  You'll be glad you
did.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:33:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Lansing Diary Day 4 (long)

Friday, August 22nd

Another cool, damp, grey morning in Lansing. Some of us are starting to
run low on gas from all the activity so far. Feet and legs are rallying
though; seem to be getting used to the abuse. We head downtown again;
Sandy intends to do some serious shopping at swap meet. Brian and I worry
about how to get our signs home until we encounter a UPS driver in the
parking lot across from Lansing Center. He gives us right-sized boxes and
directions to UPS depot. Bumper now seems a possibility. Head over to
swap meet which is in full swing. Prices are all over the map but if you
want anything Olds-related chances are it's here. Bob Andersen of Florida
is there in his $700K diesel pusher motorhome; has a 71 NOS 8-track for a
measly $500 and a NOS interior hood lock for $150. Figure with prices
like that it's no surprise he can afford the bus. Aluminum intakes, OAI
hoods, sheetmetal & memorabilia is everywhere. Karl Sarpolis is there
selling his repro OAI stuff; nice guy, remembers me from a couple of
years ago, tells me he bought a rough OAI hood for $80!

We pass on most of the expensive stuff though the $1200 wall clocks are
tempting (oh sure). I pick up some small bits for the Delta and know the
boys will give me a hard time about starting to restore that one. Even if
I had an unlimited budget for the trip I think I could exceed it here. Get
a paint chip chart for the Cutlass, a air cleaner pie pan from Specialty
Olds (seem like nicer guys than Fusick, who disappoint me with their
attitude), finally succumb to Alpha One and buy a Centennial sweater.
Alpha One booth is a constant madhouse, they must be making a fortune.
Sun is trying to break out.

Meet up with Sandy; he has bought tons of stuff. Tells us that John Green
of Toronto is heading back tonight and might be able to take big items
back to Canada for us. UPS from USA to Canada is expensive, so this could
be a big help. Talk to him, he agrees if we can give him a drive back to
his hotel around 5:00. He had plans to sell stuff here but was hassled by
US Customs when trying to bring it in, so he returned home and went sans
parts just for a couple of days to help one of his buddies and is heading
home tonight. Bumper is no problem he says, so I return to bumper man; he
tells me they're packing up and going home at 5:00PM and will not return.
Negotiate some, swallow hard and buy same. He agrees to hold it until
later in the day. Now I really need the cash machine, starting to feel
like this is geting out of control. Hook up with boys again at noon and
have lunch in tent at swap field; Donnie spots package of hood insulation
in trash. Brand new, reason thrown away unknown. Too bad none of us have
a 66 full-sizer which is what it's for. Boys really get on my case for
restoring the Delta now when they hear about the bumper. I tell them
where to stick it. ;-)

Decide I'm about swapped out for now so head across the river along with
Brian and Steve to look at show cars. Sun is out intermittently but
occasionally it decides to rain too. Strange weather. So many nice cars
it's impossible to appreciate them all. Meet Jim and Kris, a friendly
couple from the midwest who are here in their Delta convertible; they
tell us they also have a 70's Cutlass convertible and a 61 Starfire
convert at home that they had in college days back in 63. Brian swoons;
the 61 Starfire is his fave. Nice folks, as are just about everyone we
meet. Unbelieveable stuff here. Many of the restorations are beautiful
but even more amazing are some of the original unrestored cars we see.
Having trouble taking it all in.

Meet up with Mark Prince and his absolutely incredible 4-4-2; looks stock
but runs 12.47 quarters. He starts it just as Brian is taping the car from
the rear; Brian fears the speakers will blow out when he plays it back.
Unreal sound, I want to buy the car to put my buddies in their places back
home. ;-) Mike Hall wanders over too, he and Mark are great guys, we want
to buy one of their "Street Rockets" shirts. Meanwhile Steve is in deep
conversation with a fellow nearby, David Wall from Georgia, with a
gorgeous triple black 4-4-2 convertible which has just been restored; we
spend a lot of time chatting with him just enjoying his accent and the
stories. Steve gives him his address and phone ª in case he ever wants to
sell; in Steve's case he just might be able to afford it too... "I'll just
sell the Lexus" he says. We all feel inadequate. :)

I start to get more and more interested in the full-sizers. A pair of
gorgeous 77-'79 Delta coupes take my interest along with a 77 Indy Pace
Car. Steve and Brian are examining every Cutlass they see and have little
interest in much else, though we were all impressed with an enormous 76
Custom Cruiser that is maybe the biggest car we've ever seen. Lots of
outstanding cars, too many to list. We start to feel better about our own
cars when we see many of the ones here though; we'd do just fine if ours
were on this field. Gordon Horton's (Everett's son) Cutlass convertible
is a lovely car; they come by a little later and we pass on our
compliments. Drew Senko's 71 convertible is there and Brian is very
interested all of a sudden because it has a sienna interior just like his
SX and he has always said that would be his next project if he could ever
find one. He spends lots of time talking with Drew; if you ever go to
sell it, blah blah blah.... :)

Late in the afternoon I start to coordinate all of the things that need
to happen to get this stuff home. Brian and Donnie head back to the hotel
to pack up the signs while I go in search of John Green. He's not at the
booth where he's supposed to be; the guy there says he's out looking for
something and will be back later. Start to worry. Meanwhile Sandy is
looking more and more like a human pack mule; not sure how he's ever
going to get this stuff back home. I go collect my bumper from the vendor
just as he's ready to leave. This thing is heavy! Leave it with Sandy
who's recuperating at a picnic table, see the Ludlams go by, also doing
some major shopping, chat with Dave Wyatt (who I neglected to mention
meeting before... sorry Dave) and go in search of my man.

Much angst later, finally catch up with John. Seems downcast; turns out he
was helping a friend man his booth and a rallye pack and a bunch of other
stuff was stolen while he was in charge. I imagine theft might be a
problem here; many vendors are stretched to the limit and it would be easy
for someone to simply walk away with stuff. How anyone could do that is
beyond me. He was out searching for the culprit with zero luck. He's fed
up and is ready to head home. At 5:30 everything comes together;  Brian
and Donnie pull up to the entrance to the swap field with signs in the
boxes the UPS guy gave us, a perfect fit. My trunk mat goes in too to
protect the signs, plus it's one less thing to lug on the plane. The
bumper just fits in the Sable, and Donnie, John and I head off leaving the
others behind. First all the way out to the Quality Suites in West Lansing
to pick up the registration pack John never got; upon arrival, turns out
they were just sent to Lansing Center a few minutes earlier. He gives up
on ever getting it, throws up his hands and decides to go to his hotel
over on the north side of town so he can head home. A long drive later we
finally find the place, get the stuff into his pickup and it's done. Hope
it makes it to Canada OK with the luck John has had this week.

Back to the swap meet to pick up the other guys and we're about ready to
call it quits. Decide to try dinner at a place called Clara's that John
recommends; packed, can't get in, so head across the street to the Blue
Coyote. Best move we've made all week; a great place, we relax and have a
bunch of microbrews and a great dinner. Spirits are high! Steve flirts
with girls at next table; his romantic record remains imperfect
(0-for-life). At least they wave bye-bye to us when we leave. We are beat
and don't have enough energy to cope with the Michigan Festival despite
the charms of Sheryl Crow; and besides it's 10:30 or so. Back to the
Hampton for a hour or so of socializing in my room; I crash about 12:30.
A great day but long, and only one left to go.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª817
********************************
